# How many dates before sex?



## HappyKaty

I know it varies from person to person, but what's your norm? When you're dating a new person, how long do you usually wait to do the deed?


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## arbitrator

*No set number, per se. When I'm getting signals that she is feeling quite comfortable with my physical presence as I am with hers, then I know that the time is right.

But I will not wait forever, nor will I attempt to bed down with different women simultaneously. If we're engaged in doing "the deed," then I'm dating her somewhat exclusively. And I would fully expect the same from her!*


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Maybe it's just me but if I was looking for a relationship, I would be a little concerned if it happened on the first date for sure. It would put a question mark in my mind. I'd want to build up to that ... maybe 3 or 4 dates. I'm a little old fashioned that way. Now if all I was looking for is meeting new people and having fun then it wouldn't matter.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho

arbitrator said:


> *No set number, per se. When I'm getting signals that she is feeling quite comfortable with my physical presence as I am with hers, then I know that the time is right.
> 
> But I will not wait forever, nor will I attempt to bed down with different women simultaneously. If we're engaged in doing "the deed," then I'm dating her somewhat exclusively. And I would fully expect the same from her!*


Right. I am a one woman at a time person so that changes things a bit. It's one thing to know I'm on a date with someone who is dating other people, trying to figure things out ... it's another thing if she's sleeping with all of them.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## badcompany

Am old fashioned to say it's going to be several months unless I get signs that say otherwise?


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## JustSomeGuyWho

I think a lot of it depends on circumstances as well. How well do I know this person? Is it somebody I've known for some time and there was enough mutual attraction to start dating? Is this somebody I'm just getting to know? What is it that I'm looking for at that point in my life? I agree with arbitrator in that there is no set number or amount of time ... it depends on what feels right to me and to her. I am old fashioned though in that I won't be dating and sleeping with multiple women at the same time so I might be careful not to jump into bed too quickly (no matter how much I might want to  ) That said, I am not against having sex for the fun of it as long as I was available to do that (I'm not dating anybody else) and it is well understood that neither of us are looking for anything serious ... what are the expectations?


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## EnjoliWoman

It depends. I have no rules. Sometimes it has been rather soon if I felt very close to someone - other times I've known them for quite a long time. Upon reflection, the long-term relationships started the slowest, though - in the 4-6 month range. Hm.


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## zillard

HappyKaty said:


> I know it varies from person to person, but what's your norm? When you're dating a new person, how long do you usually wait to do the deed?


I think it depends on what you are looking for, and also on your own personal moral code. 

I'm personally not a ONS type (usually). Due to that - I would lose respect for someone if we jumped right into it. I'm atypical for a male as I want an emotional connection first. 

I've never set a rule. Emotional connections have their own life. How fast it develops between me and A could vary drastically from how fast it develops between me and B.


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## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Maybe it's just me but if I was looking for a relationship, I would be a little concerned if it happened on the first date for sure. It would put a question mark in my mind. I'd want to build up to that ... maybe 3 or 4 dates. I'm a little old fashioned that way. Now if all I was looking for is meeting new people and having fun then it wouldn't matter.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


I agree. 

Since I've actually started looking, I've met several guys for dates, in the past month. A huge percentage (pushing 80-90%) are seemingly expecting sex on the first date. 

I understand a lot of people are looking for a ONS, but they all claim they're searching for relationships and/or exclusive dating. I don't get the lying part.


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## HappyKaty

zillard said:


> I'm personally not a ONS type (usually). Due to that - I would lose respect for someone if we jumped right into it. I'm atypical for a male as I want an emotional connection first.


And, that's what my guy friend so eloquently pointed out to me, last night. "Katy, if they're trying on the first date, they don't wanna date you."


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## zillard

HappyKaty said:


> And, that's what my guy friend so eloquently pointed out to me, last night. "Katy, if they're trying on the first date, they don't wanna date you."


I like your friend.


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## EnjoliWoman

Yup, so true. A sign of affection on the first date is sort of important to know that there is an attraction there and I'm not friend-zoned, but that can be hand-holding, a kiss on the cheek, etc.


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## HappyKaty

EnjoliWoman said:


> Yup, so true. A sign of affection on the first date is sort of important to know that there is an attraction there and I'm not friend-zoned, but that can be hand-holding, a kiss on the cheek, etc.


Oh, these guys are good, though. They're totally affectionate, pulling out all the stops - hand holding, forehead kisses, opening doors, etc. - until it's time to part ways. Then, as they're hugging me, they'll make sure I accidentally notice their hard-on. 

Gahhh! Men are such subtle, amazing creatures! :smthumbup:


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## MEM2020

Happy,
If she is 'clearly' into me, and is making an effort to demonstrate that in other ways, I am in no hurry. With my wife, it was 6 weeks and she was actually getting upset with me. I was and am still super attracted to her almost 25 years later. 

If I were dating, and I am not:

When a woman is not obvious about being into me, and expects to be chased, I stop chasing after the 3rd date. At that point she can either chase me back, or take me to bed. 




HappyKaty said:


> I know it varies from person to person, but what's your norm? When you're dating a new person, how long do you usually wait to do the deed?


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## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> I agree.
> 
> Since I've actually started looking, I've met several guys for dates, in the past month. A huge percentage (pushing 80-90%) are seemingly expecting sex on the first date.
> 
> I understand a lot of people are looking for a ONS, but they all claim they're searching for relationships and/or exclusive dating. I don't get the lying part.


How are you meeting these guys? That might be an indicator of what they are looking for.


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## HappyKaty

MEM11363 said:


> Happy,
> If she is 'clearly' into me, and is making an effort to demonstrate that in other ways, I am in no hurry.


Like what?

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

My friend said I'm probably giving off the "I'm not into this" vibe, but I don't even know what that is.


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## zillard

HappyKaty said:


> Oh, these guys are good, though. They're totally affectionate, pulling out all the stops - hand holding, forehead kisses, opening doors, etc. - until it's time to part ways. Then, as they're hugging me, they'll make sure I accidentally notice their hard-on.
> 
> Gahhh! Men are such subtle, amazing creatures! :smthumbup:


haha. While I said I'm not a ONS type... that doesn't mean my penis agrees with me.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

zillard said:


> haha. While I said I'm not a ONS type... that doesn't mean my penis agrees with me.


True. Just because I'm not going to attempt it doesn't mean I don't want to. It just means that the big head is still in charge.


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## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> How are you meeting these guys? That might be an indicator of what they are looking for.


A couple from work, one was a blind date, a couple through mutual friends, one asked for my number in the line at the dry cleaner's shop. 

Nothing terrible.


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## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> True. Just because I'm not going to attempt it doesn't mean I don't want to. It just means that the big head is still in charge.


But, most of them have tried. 

And, they don't try to call, after rejection, either...not that I'd want them to.


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## DvlsAdvc8

I have no rules. I don't hold out and I don't really push it - it all just depends on the feedback I get to my touches. Getting it on the first date doesn't mean I do or do not want to date - the answer there would really be: I don't know yet. Whether dating pans out depends on how I feel as I get to know her better. But I'm not one to sex and run either... so most of my sexual encounters have had a chance to develop into relationships.

However, waiting for it a good long while absolutely means I want to date.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> A couple from work, one was a blind date, a couple through mutual friends, one asked for my number in the line at the dry cleaner's shop.
> 
> Nothing terrible.


Ha! I assumed it was nothing terrible. I just wondered what the circumstances were to see if it might affect the expectations.


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## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> Then, as they're hugging me, they'll make sure I accidentally notice their hard-on.
> 
> Gahhh! Men are such subtle, amazing creatures! :smthumbup:


Bizzare. So, I imagine this was a big (small? ) turnoff. :rofl:

So how did you react to that?


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## badcompany

Maybe it's time to have a pre-date disclosure and lay down the law a bit....or don't waste your time with someone that disagrees.


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## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Bizzare. So, I imagine this was a big (small? ) turnoff. :rofl:
> 
> So how did you react to that?


At first, I was like "really?!", which kinda killed their moods.  

Now, though, I swear I expect it. I just kinda throw it out there that I'm not interested in sex so soon. One has made me feel incredibly awkward about it, which kinda scared me. He was the one, and only, on-liner.


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## HappyKaty

badcompany said:


> Maybe it's time to have a pre-date disclosure and lay down the law a bit....or don't waste your time with someone that disagrees.


I do!

We usually talk or text for, at least, three days before the date. They KNOW I'm not interested in first date sex.


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## Mavash.

HappyKaty said:


> I do!
> 
> We usually talk or text for, at least, three days before the date. They KNOW I'm not interested in first date sex.


Do you discuss it before the first date?

Just curious. 

I haven't dated in over 2 decades so I don't know what's the norm now.


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## SadSamIAm

For me, sex on the first date! Thinking about each other constantly. Seeing each other as much as possible. Getting married in a few months.

But I am a romantic. 

Also, haven't dated for 30 years, so don't know what I am talking about.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> But, most of them have tried.
> 
> And, they don't try to call, after rejection, either...not that I'd want them to.


Interesting. So that is a dealbreaker for you? I might be inclined to call even after a rejection if I like the person and am interested in getting to know them. I am perfectly fine with a person clearly defining their boundaries. I would know that is a no go on the next date unless she was very clear that it is what she wanted. Might take some pressure off too.


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## Jellybeans

It depends on the people involved, the chemistry, when t hey both feel it's right.

If one person wants to and the other doesn't, abort mission! Because both sould feel comfortable.

A build-up is always nice before the real action.


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## hambone

HappyKaty said:


> I agree.
> 
> Since I've actually started looking, I've met several guys for dates, in the past month. A huge percentage (pushing 80-90%) are seemingly expecting sex on the first date.
> 
> I understand a lot of people are looking for a ONS, but they all claim they're searching for relationships and/or exclusive dating. I don't get the lying part.


Those guys expecting sex on the first date.... IMO, aren't looking for a LTR... It you put out... they got a little.. if you don't ... big whup... they were moving on anyway..

If they REALLY like you... they'll wait and respect you even more for making them wait...

My wife made we wait FOREVER!!! Well, it seemed like forever but I was perfectly OK with that. I had her so high up on a pedestal.... I didn't want to take any chances on blowing it...

In hindsight... maybe it wasn't her making me wait.. maybe I was so concerned with not doing anything to put her off.. I wasn't really pushing her...


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## Jellybeans

Yeah everyone just kind of goes at their own pace.

So how long/many dates before making out?


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## JustSomeGuyWho

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Interesting. So that is a dealbreaker for you? I might be inclined to call even after a rejection if I like the person and am interested in getting to know them. I am perfectly fine with a person clearly defining their boundaries. I would know that is a no go on the next date unless she was very clear that it is what she wanted. Might take some pressure off too.


Like I said, I'm old fashioned. I am not going to initiate on the first date. I'm not going to refuse if she is pulling me into her house but I'm not going to initiate. Of course, in the back of my mind I'd be thinking ... but is she expecting me to? So much better to just clearly identify boundaries right off the bat. I would rather be focused on her than wondering what the right thing to do is.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

If I wanted to have NSA sex, I would hit the bars. If I wanted to get to know someone and see if it goes somewhere, I'd go on a date.


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## HappyKaty

Mavash. said:


> Do you discuss it before the first date?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> I haven't dated in over 2 decades so I don't know what's the norm now.


I do, Mav. 

Usually, they're the ones that bring it up.


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## DvlsAdvc8

badcompany said:


> Maybe it's time to have a pre-date disclosure and lay down the law a bit....or don't waste your time with someone that disagrees.


haha... back when I tried the online thing, I met 3 women and each had a "no sex" disclaimer on their profile or said it out right in messages. Usually like "if that's what you want, keep looking elsewhere". 

Yet, the conversation before meeting still turned playfully sexual with all of them and I had sex on 2 of those 1st dates. smh.

Sometimes I wonder if waiving a red flag "I don't do it on the first date, so don't even try" is actually an indicator that she will, or at least has before, and got burned. ie - I know I make this mistake, and now I'm telling myself I won't make this mistake again.

Before anyone starts the hate dvls campaign, I did date all 3. I didn't say I wanted to wait. I just go with the flow.


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## Mavash.

HappyKaty said:


> I do, Mav.
> 
> Usually, they're the ones that bring it up.


Huh? How does THAT work exactly? 

<I'm feeling old now> LOL


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## HappyKaty

Jellybeans said:


> Yeah everyone just kind of goes at their own pace.
> 
> So how long/many dates before making out?


I'll make out on the second date.


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## arbitrator

Jellybeans said:


> Yeah everyone just kind of goes at their own pace.
> 
> *So how long/many dates before making out?*


*Probably about as long as it takes either of us to muster up the courage to make a pass!*


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Yeah, I have no idea what the rules or expectations are now. Everything I read says that sex these days is no big deal ... it always was to me. 

Funny thing is, I never really dated. Every relationship I had before marriage, I just kind of fell into with no formal dating.


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## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> At first, I was like "really?!", which kinda killed their moods.
> 
> Now, though, I swear I expect it. I just kinda throw it out there that I'm not interested in sex so soon. One has made me feel incredibly awkward about it, which kinda scared me. He was the one, and only, on-liner.


Ha... it never would have occurred to me to try that. Half the profiles I saw when I was looking online said "no d*ck pics!!!" lol

So... you didn't take it to mean that he really really likes you? :rofl: 

But for real... that's just creepy lol.


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## HappyKaty

Mavash. said:


> Huh? How does THAT work exactly?
> 
> <I'm feeling old now> LOL


So, he'll say, "What are you looking for"

Me: "I'm just dating...seeing what happens."

Him: "Cool, cool. So, are you looking for exclusivity, or just casual encounters?"

Me: "I am NOT looking for random sex."

Him: "Oh, yeahhh. That's a good thing."


Haha. Liars.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> So, he'll say, "What are you looking for"
> 
> Me: "I'm just dating...seeing what happens."
> 
> Him: "Cool, cool. So, are you looking for exclusivity, or just casual encounters?"
> 
> Me: "I am NOT looking for random sex."
> 
> Him: "Oh, yeahhh. That's a good thing."
> 
> 
> Haha. Liars.


Anybody who says "cool, cool" automatically sounds disingenuous to me, lol.


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## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Anybody who says "cool, cool" automatically sounds disingenuous to me, lol.


Haha. 

My transcription is not verbatim...for all of them.


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## hambone

Mavash. said:


> Huh? How does THAT work exactly?
> 
> <I'm feeling old now> LOL


Like, does he ask, "Will we be having sex tonight?"

You say, "NO"..

He says, "Oh good, so it's dutch treat!"


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## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> Usually, they're the ones that bring it up.


ha... that sounds like a recipe full of fail.


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## Jellybeans

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Funny thing is, I never really dated. Every relationship I had before marriage, I just kind of fell into with no formal dating.


I have only had one serious relationship (which turned into my marriage) and it was the same with me -- it seems like we just "were." There was no gaming, we were just an item. But I realize now the instant relationship, or rather, being sooo into eachother so fast... may not have been the best thing? I don't know. It just seems like it was easier, then.

I personally would not want to have sex on a first date. I mean, you are barely learning eachother's names at that point. A slow build is sexy.


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## Mavash.

HappyKaty said:


> Him: "Cool, cool. So, are you looking for exclusivity, or just casual encounters?"
> 
> Me: "I am NOT looking for random sex.


Remember when you said the duck face picture was suggestive?

This is the same thing.

You said you're NOT looking for random sex and all he heard was "random sex". LOL

<as they giggle like 15 year old boy> oooooo she said "random sex". 

Try changing the words to NOT include the word SEX in any way by you.

I'd probably answer "exclusivity" just that one word because THAT will chase off most of the immature losers.

Focus on what you want not what you don't want.


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## hambone

Mavash. said:


> Remember when you said the duck face picture was suggestive?
> 
> This is the same thing.
> 
> You said you're NOT looking for random sex and all he heard was "random sex". LOL
> 
> <as they giggle like 15 year old boy> oooooo she said "random sex".
> 
> Try changing the words to NOT include the word SEX in any way by you.
> 
> I'd probably answer "exclusivity" just that one word because THAT will chase off most of the immature losers.
> 
> Focus on what you want not what you don't want.


Nah... you want to chase them off? Tell them you are in love with them and want to have their baby!'


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## arbitrator

hambone said:


> Nah... you want to chase them off? Tell them you are in love with them and want to have their baby!'


*Now that line would have literally scared my ass clean out of the country!*


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Ahh yes, the woman who says I LOVE YOU within a week of meeting you. Run, Forrest, Run!

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> So, he'll say, "What are you looking for"


I don't think a guy who asks this question is serious. He wants to know what you're looking for so he can adjust his approach to get what he wants: sex. If you take the "whatever" answer, he knows he doesn't have to throw a lot of bs at you. If you answer with any sort of commitment, he knows he's going to have to withhold his intentions.

Guys who are serious just talk. Sex is irrelevant at that point and will happen when it happens.

IMO.


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## hambone

arbitrator said:


> *Now that line would have literally scared my ass clean out of the country!*


I'd have been like Joseph... left my robe...

My chariot would have left scratch marks in the drive way...


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## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I don't think a guy who asks this question is serious. He wants to know what you're looking for so he can adjust his approach to get what he wants: sex. .


See, I ask the question, too, naively believing they'd voice their desire to just hook up with me, as an attempt to weed out the boner brothers. 

Clearly, I just need to talk about the abundance of pecans in my front yard, and see how long I can hold his interest.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Jellybeans said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, I never really dated. Every relationship I had before marriage, I just kind of fell into with no formal dating.
> 
> 
> 
> I have only had one serious relationship (which turned into my marriage) and it was the same with me -- it seems like we just "were." There was no gaming, we were just an item. But I realize now the instant relationship, or rather, being sooo into eachother so fast... may not have been the best thing? I don't know. It just seems like it was easier, then.
> 
> I personally would not want to have sex on a first date. I mean, you are barely learning eachother's names at that point. A slow build is sexy.
Click to expand...

I just know that if I divorce ..... and at this point it looks more like a when .... I will take my time looking for the next relationship or jumping into bed with anyone too quickly. For me, 'the deed' requires a commitment on my part ... like I said unless it is clearly defined ahead of time. I don't want to repeat my mistakes of the past and if I have to date 100, 200, whatever number of women to find what's right for me, I will. I've basically been celibate for the last 6 or 7 years of my marriage, I think I can hold off a little longer.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Ceegee

If the sex is good I'll take her on a date. 

Maybe I'll even buy.


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## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I just know that if I divorce ..... and at this point it looks more like a when .... I will take my time looking for the next relationship or jumping into bed with anyone too quickly. For me, 'the deed' requires a commitment on my part ... like I said unless it is clearly defined ahead of time. I don't want to repeat my mistakes of the past and if I have to date 100, 200, whatever number of women to find what's right for me, I will. I've basically been celibate for the last 6 or 7 years of my marriage, I think I can hold off a little longer.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


I absolutely agree. I'm in no hurry to find Mr. Right, and I don't plan on sleeping with all of them during my search.

Like my friend said, even if nothing comes of it, you still get free food and drinks every weekend.


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## HappyKaty

Ceegee said:


> If the sex is good I'll take her on a date.
> 
> Maybe I'll even buy.


:rofl: 

Such a man.


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## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> See, I ask the question, too, naively believing they'd voice their desire to just hook up with me, as an attempt to weed out the boner brothers.
> 
> Clearly, I just need to talk about the abundance of pecans in my front yard, and see how long I can hold his interest.


I don't have any data on the guys who ask this really. I'm just giving my blind opinion. Women ask this question too, but I find it pretty useless honestly. I think most guys online are going to answer whatever they think you want to hear. You're asking a question that requires a lot of trust to believe the answer... and he's done nothing to establish that trust yet.

Guys aren't entirely stupid. We know that when a woman asks that question, the majority of the time they're looking to weed out the guys who just want a hookup.


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## Jellybeans

I can honestly say I have never dated a man who asked "So what are you looking for?" I hate to feed stereotypes, but that definitely sounds more of like something a woman would ask or try to gauge. 

Guys don't tend to go there and especially not that soon upon meeting someone new.


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## hambone

HappyKaty said:


> I absolutely agree. I'm in no hurry to find Mr. Right, and I don't plan on sleeping with all of them during my search.
> 
> Like my friend said, even if nothing comes of it, you still get free food and drinks every weekend.


When I got divorced... I had absolutely no intention of ever marrying again.

I dated no girl more than twice. And, if I thought they were getting a little too clingy... I'd tell them, "Look, I'm not looking for a wife... If you want to get married, you need to look some where else."

And if they didn't seem to get the message, I'd quit dating.

I kept moving.. I did NOT want to fall into an OK relationship and get tied up... 

Guess what... I met the most amazing woman.... I feel madly in love and ended up getting married...

In hindsight... the key was to keep moving... keep looking until you find THE person for you. Don't settle.

Remember... you will not find Mr./Miss. awesome while you are tied up with Mr./Miss. OK. 

One more tip. Marry someone you not only love but you like and someone you have a lot in common. I like being with my wife. We see eye to eye on money, politics, religion, raising kids, etc. etc. etc. There just isn't a lot of friction. 

We spend a lot of time together. I retired 13 years ago... And never have I thought I needed time away from here. I've gone to week long airshows with my brother. We leave on Friday... and by Monday or Tuesday I am missing her like you wouldn't believe. I've left shows early because I was miserable without her.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Jellybeans said:


> I can honestly say I have never dated a man who asked "So what are you looking for?" I hate to feed stereotypes, but that definitely sounds more of like something a woman would ask or try to gauge.
> 
> Guys don't tend to go there and especially not that soon upon meeting someone new.


It seems bizzarely feminine doesn't it!? That's what I was thinking but couldn't quite verbalize. Just intuition.

A guy weeding out women this way? Doesn't smell right to me.

I bet some women responded to him like that so now he's copying it with the belief that it makes him look discerning. Sorry bro.


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## Jellybeans

hambone said:


> Marry someone you not only love but you like
> 
> We spend a lot of time together. I retired 13 years ago... And never have I thought I needed time away from here. I've gone to week long airshows with my brother. We leave on Friday... and by Monday or Tuesday I am missing her like you wouldn't believe. I've left shows early because I was miserable without her.


Aww. That is really sweet, hambone.



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> It seems bizzarely feminine doesn't it!? That's what I was thinking but couldn't quite verbalize. Just intuition.
> 
> A guy weeding out women this way? Doesn't smell right to me.


Agreed. And honestly, if some guy came at me like that, it would make me feel pressured and like he was moving WAY too fast. No, thanks.


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## RandomDude

> "So what are you looking for?"


Sex no strings attached

Being a seperated man this year though and having not been over my wife -> I ended up disappointing them all! Bah! I'm such an idiot 

On topic: 
Meh, whenever it's comfortable to do so, let your instincts guide you


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## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> It seems bizzarely feminine doesn't it!? That's what I was thinking but couldn't quite verbalize. Just intuition.
> 
> A guy weeding out women this way? Doesn't smell right to me.
> 
> I bet some women responded to him like that so now he's copying it with the belief that it makes him look discerning. Sorry bro.


It's very common, around here. They're clearly putting out feelers to determine the amount of effort they'll have to put in to obtain some strange.

My brother, who is a known asshat (in the world of players), even told me that's one of the first things he asks, as some women will tell you, straight up, they want a FWB.


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## Jellybeans

That is so bizarre to me, Katy. I simply have never encountered that.

WEIRD.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Jellybeans said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can honestly say I have never dated a man who asked "So what are you looking for?" I hate to feed stereotypes, but that definitely sounds more of like something a woman would ask or try to gauge.
> 
> Guys don't tend to go there and especially not that soon upon meeting someone new.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems bizzarely feminine doesn't it!? That's what I was thinking but couldn't quite verbalize. Just intuition.
> 
> A guy weeding out women this way? Doesn't smell right to me.
> 
> I bet some women responded to him like that so now he's copying it with the belief that it makes him look discerning. Sorry bro.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I know a couple of recently divorced women who as soon as that divorce was final decided to hook up with as many guys as they could. Sometimes more than one at a time, lol. More guys in a month than I've had with my own wife in years. Bragged about it ... as if anybody really wanted to know. I'm sure that is atypical (I hope) but in that context it seems like a reasonable question to ask.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## rebuilding72

With my ex, we dated a month before we had sex. But when I got a divorce, I met a guy and we hit it off amazingly. We slept together on the 2nd meeting, been together 6 months now and neither one of us dated anyone after we met. So I'd say it all depends on the circumstances and what feels right


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> It's very common, around here. They're clearly putting out feelers to determine the amount of effort they'll have to put in to obtain some strange.
> 
> My brother, who is a known asshat (in the world of players), even told me that's one of the first things he asks, as some women will tell you, straight up, they want a FWB.


I've never met anyone who told me up front they just wanted a FWB. Those have just "happened".

I don't have enough online experience to really speak, but my friends tell me that women online tend to couch their intentions behind things like "whatever" and just wanting to have fun; a good time; or otherwise expressing that they don't take things too seriously. Living for the moment etc. Translation: I'm horny too but I don't want you to think I'm just some easy sl*t. Be fun, and be nice to me and we'll both get laid. Neither of us wants to get married next week.

(mind you I'm using their inner voice with crude language to put a sharp point on it; I'm not saying I view any women as such)


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I don't know. I know a couple of recently divorced women who as soon as that divorce was final decided to hook up with as many guys as they could. Sometimes more than one at a time, lol. More guys in a month than I've had with my own wife in years. Bragged about it ... as if anybody really wanted to know. I'm sure that is atypical (I hope) but in that context it seems like a reasonable question to ask.


Oh I agree with the hypersexual divorcee... don't get me wrong. But that woman doesn't have to ask what his intentions are. I think most women know that if they offer up the sex, most guys are gonna take it. 

Those that ask are trying to weed out guys.

The guy that asks... again, a little weird. Even guys looking for a relationship are very often happy to get laid if the opportunity presents itself. Maybe I'm just a cynic.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Oh I agree with the hypersexual divorcee... don't get me wrong. But that woman doesn't have to ask what his intentions are. I think most women know that if they offer up the sex, most guys are gonna take it.
> 
> Those that ask are trying to weed out guys.
> 
> The guy that asks... again, a little weird. Even guys looking for a relationship are very often happy to get laid if the opportunity presents itself. Maybe I'm just a cynic.


I don't know ... it would be a reasonable question to me:

1) If they are looking for fun and nothing else, I know what the expectation is and I can decide what's right for me. I would not be expecting anything more nor would I want anything more ... this woman is not looking for anything serious and I would be a fool to hope for anything more. That doesn't mean I might not "enjoy the moment" but that is all it would be.

2) If they are looking for their next husband, their clock is ticking and want to have babies ... well, maybe that is a little too serious for me. Besides, I'm on the verge of being beyond those days, lol. 

3) If they are open to a relationship but hey, let's get to know each other and see how it goes ... that might be my sweet spot. If I enjoy her company and all goes well, this is the woman I might ask out on subsequent dates and be willing to invest some time into.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

It could very well be. I don't have a bunch of experience to argue it. Intuitively, it doesn't smell right or sit well with how I understand most men to act.

Wouldn't be the first time I could be called a cynic.


----------



## hambone

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> It seems bizzarely feminine doesn't it!? That's what I was thinking but couldn't quite verbalize. Just intuition.
> 
> A guy weeding out women this way? Doesn't smell right to me.
> 
> I bet some women responded to him like that so now he's copying it with the belief that it makes him look discerning. Sorry bro.


I don't think they are trying to weed them out..

I think they are trying to find out what approach they need to use... You know, find out what she will respond to..


----------



## 06Daddio08

My first time around, I believe it was on the 2nd or 3rd date but I was young, horny and stupid (didn't even use protection). It also happened within 2 weeks. :rofl:

Now? Not happening before a few dates at least, of course messing around in other ways is always an option if it comes about naturally. 

I have no interest in ONS and I actually am pretty forward in regards to asking what she is looking for or wanting. When the 'idea' of FWB came up (from her) I straight up asked her, "so, if we had sex tonight and you didn't hear from me again, would you be okay with that?". She replied, "No, probably not". To which I replied, "Then it won't be happening".

Although this is a bit off the main topic, when I do start dating someone more than once, I really don't want to learn everything I missed out on in the dates ... with texts.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

06Daddio08 said:


> Although this is a bit off the main topic, when I do start dating someone more than once, I really don't want to learn everything I missed out on in the dates ... with texts.


Uhmm, do tell?


----------



## Hardtohandle

I mentioned this in another thread..

When I take a woman out on the first date.. I make it clear to them that its a date.. I will probably try to hold their hand or put my arm around them. I might try to steal a kiss or three if I feel the moment is right and feel she is into it. 

But I expect nothing more and that there is no worry or concern that I am looking for anything more. 

If they feel uncomfortable with me trying to hold their hand or put my arm around them or even trying to steal a kiss, they should tell me and I will stop whatever it is bothers them.. 

Of course they need to remember that those rules go for me as well. 

It's my body, my choice..  And that I am not some sort of cheap date.. That usually gets a laugh out of them and breaks the ice.. 

I've noticed by the third date or mid week to the third date sex is on the table. I have flexible hours so sometimes meeting someone mid afternoon during the week between the 2nd and third date causes some spontaneity that it just gets the juice flowing I guess. Its that unexpected encounter that I guess seems exciting.. I'm not going to lie either, since I have done it several times already it seems to work.. I'm going to stick with what works.. 

The great thing is sometimes the third date ends up being dessert first and then ordering food in and then dessert again..


----------



## HappyKaty

06Daddio08 said:


> Although this is a bit off the main topic, when I do start dating someone more than once, I really don't want to learn everything I missed out on in the dates ... with texts.


Elaborate, please...


----------



## HappyKaty

I think I'd be comfortable with sex on the third date, IF I knew he was able, and willing, to commit. I love sex, and it takes a lot of self control to walk away from a first date offer. But, at the same time, I know how tender my heart is, and I'd be crushed afterwards.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



HappyKaty said:


> Elaborate, please...


If I am starting to go on dates with someone local, I really don't want to get to know them through back and forth texts during work or an evening meant for my kids / friends.

I would rather either make time in person or do it on the phone. It's more personable and meaningful, to me. I'd want things to talk about during those times, instead of rehashing what I previously read a day before. From a text.


----------



## lisab0105

06Daddio08 said:


> If I am starting to go on dates with someone local, I really don't want to get to know them through back and forth texts during work or an evening meant for my kids / friends.


I agree. Getting to know someone through texting sucks and is just plain lazy.


----------



## lisab0105

Enough to where it is impossible to sit next to them anymore. I want anticipation. I want to really like them and know they really like me, regardless of sex. 

Kissing, making out...it's all good. But no sex before monogamy. 

Don't like it, get the hell out. :smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

Hardtohandle said:


> I've noticed by the third date or mid week to the third date sex is on the table.


What do you mean? Expand.


----------



## Jellybeans

HappyKaty said:


> I think I'd be comfortable with sex on the third date, IF I knew he was able, and willing, to commit.


Yeah but how do you really know after three dates? 



HappyKaty said:


> I love sex, and it takes a lot of self control to walk away from a first date offer.


Do you mean the offer of sex on a first date? I would be skeeved out to sleep with someone that soon.



lisab0105 said:


> Enough to where it is impossible to sit next to them anymore. I want anticipation.


That stuff is THE BEST. :smthumbup:


----------



## arbitrator

Jellybeans said:


> Yeah but how do you really know after three dates?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the offer of sex on a first date? *I would be skeeved out to sleep with someone that soon.*
> 
> 
> 
> That stuff is THE BEST. :smthumbup:


*Now I don't exactly know what "skeeved out" actually means, but I can't help but think that I've been there once or twice in my lifetime! *


----------



## Jellybeans

Lol. Arbitrator, it means weirded out/not into it/worried/wary.


----------



## arbitrator

Jellybeans said:


> Lol. Arbitrator, it means weirded out/not into it/worried/wary.


*In that case: "Been There, Done That!"*


----------



## HappyKaty

Jellybeans said:


> Lol. Arbitrator, it means weirded out/not into it/worried/wary.


I do get "skeeved out", which is why I don't do it. 

I'd be lying if I said I never second guessed myself, but ultimately my brain overrides my hormones.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> I think I'd be comfortable with sex on the third date, IF I knew he was able, and willing, to commit. I love sex, and it takes a lot of self control to walk away from a first date offer. But, at the same time, I know how tender my heart is, and I'd be crushed afterwards.


Curious... but why crushed? Assuming the guy stuck around for at least a little while and it wasn't just a hit and run - but still eventually decided you weren't the one for him - would that be equally crushing?

Is success/marriage/the whole 9 yards the only way to avoid being crushed?

What if you hooked up on the first date, and in the next couple dates decided HE wasn't right for YOU? Would you stay? Would you expect him to feel crushed?

Just curious. People seem to put a lot of weight behind this... and its strange to me. I generally go with the flow and have no expectation that everything will pan out. If it does, great. If it doesn't, there's some disappointment but I just keep looking.

I think you spend most of your life WITH someone, so you might as well try to enjoy the time dating as much as possible.


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Curious... but why crushed? Assuming the guy stuck around for at least a little while and it wasn't just a hit and run - but still eventually decided you weren't the one for him - would that be equally crushing?
> 
> Is success/marriage/the whole 9 yards the only way to avoid being crushed?
> 
> What if you hooked up on the first date, and in the next couple dates decided HE wasn't right for YOU? Would you stay? Would you expect him to feel crushed?
> 
> Just curious. People seem to put a lot of weight behind this... and its strange to me. I generally go with the flow and have no expectation that everything will pan out. If it does, great. If it doesn't, there's some disappointment but I just keep looking.
> 
> I think you spend most of your life WITH someone, so you might as well try to enjoy the time dating as much as possible.


Maybe I'm just too hard on myself and always prepare for the worst. I assume that if I give it up on the first date, there would be no second one.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



lisab0105 said:


> Enough to where it is impossible to sit next to them anymore. I want anticipation. I want to really like them and know they really like me, regardless of sex.
> 
> Kissing, making out...it's all good. But no sex before monogamy.
> 
> Don't like it, get the hell out. :smthumbup:


Without good communication and respect to boundaries, sex really doesn't mean anything (to me). I believe it's the last piece to the "relationship puzzle". Even if it wasn't what you originally expected, without that understanding between each other it can never get better.

My entire marriage was pretty much full of selflessness in the bedroom from both sides. Due to an inability to listen to one another without making it personal, no respect to boundaries. It's been almost 2 years since I've done the deed and as much as I enjoy it, it's not going to be fully fulfilling if that connection isn't there.

And, if afterwards things don't work out, that's okay as well. Becomes something to learn from.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

Meh, No sex until I know they are absolutely sane. Period. And that takes time.


----------



## HappyKaty

Regardless, I don't WANT to be that chick. I do want to have fun, and enjoy dating (different men), but it seems like sex is expected. And, I'm sure, to a degree, it is. 

A part of me wants wild and crazy, and a larger part wants stability and monogamy. That seems to be the norm, amongst my divorced peers. But, I think the difference in the two desires is as large as the Grand Canyon. 

I am smart enough to know, however, that until I know exactly what I want, it's best to stay in my panties for the first few dates.


----------



## HappyKaty

Dedicated2Her said:


> Meh, No sex until I know they are absolutely sane. Period. And that takes time.


It didn't seem that way, at first.  For a while, there, you were running through 'em.


----------



## arbitrator

*In my storied lifetime, I have never scored on Date No. 1, not that I didn't ever dream of that happening. Usually, at least for me, it's more likely on Date No. 3 or No. 4 when some aura of trust has been built up and some psychological barriers have been taken down.

There's even been some women that I had been initially set up on blind dates with that I just really had nothing in common with, that made passes at me, that I just had to refuse. Didn't want to impart to them that I was romantically or sexually interested.

To have done it with them would have only made getting away from their unilaterally skewed perception of us being a couple even more awkward!*


----------



## HappyKaty

arbitrator said:


> *
> To have done it with them would have only made getting away from their unilaterally skewed perception of us being a couple even more awkward!*


That's my WHOLE point! Usually, if they're trying on the first date, it's because they have no interest in moving further. WHY prolong the inevitable?!


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



HappyKaty said:


> Regardless, I don't WANT to be that chick. I do want to have fun, and enjoy dating (different men), but it seems like sex is expected. And, I'm sure, to a degree, it is.
> 
> A part of me wants wild and crazy, and a larger part wants stability and monogamy. That seems to be the norm, amongst my divorced peers. But, I think the difference in the two desires is as large as the Grand Canyon.
> 
> I am smart enough to know, however, that until I know exactly what I want, it's best to stay in my panties for the first few dates.


If we take it back to the basics for a minute ...

Who cares if the guy wants or expects sex. If you don't, then that's the end of it, yeah?

In the event you do, then panties on the ground time!


----------



## arbitrator

HappyKaty said:


> That's my WHOLE point! Usually, if they're trying on the first date, it's because they have no interest in moving further. WHY prolong the inevitable?!


*And that's my whole point! I just don't like going after it unless I feel some innate mutual attachment. I might very well be the exception rather than the rule, but I don't really desire to lower my pants for just any stranger to reach Shang-ri-la! But then again, that's just me!*


----------



## HappyKaty

06Daddio08 said:


> If we take it back to the basics for a minute ...
> 
> Who cares if the guy wants or expects sex. If you don't, then that's the end of it, yeah?
> 
> In the event you do, then panties on the ground time!


You're right. I'm over thinking a super simple issue, which is par for the course, for me.

Maybe I just need to get laid, and move on.


----------



## Jellybeans

Sex changes things. I don't agree with the folks who say it means nothing or blah blah blah. The dynamic shifts somewhat after you bed someone. So... it is probably best to hold off until you are both really sure you want to do it.


----------



## COGypsy

HappyKaty;5340194 I do want to have fun said:


> I kind of think that sex, or at least the imminent possibility of sex is pretty much what distinguishes dating from other social activities. I have lots of people I can go to the movies or dinner or dancing with. I don't really need too many more of those. Doing those things with someone I can/want take home and bang like a screen door--that's what makes dating it's own thing.
> 
> That being said, I also don't think that some arbitrary number makes sense for deciding when to have sex. I think when you're at a point of determining exclusivity is a good time. I'm not sure if that's the same as committing though. To me that's something that happens after a number of months and is a deeper level of involvement. I'm not sure I'd wait that long, personally!


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



HappyKaty said:


> You're right. I'm over thinking a super simple issue, which is par for the course, for me.
> 
> Maybe I just need to get laid, and move on.


If someone tells you that they love you, and they expect to hear it in return ... would you? Even if you didn't?

For myself, sex would be great. Messing around with someone in bed would be awesome ... but I refuse to let it be the driver to my relationships or even just getting to know a pretty lady.


----------



## HappyKaty

Jellybeans said:


> Sex changes things. I don't agree with the folks who say it means nothing or blah blah blah. The dynamic shifts somewhat after you bed someone. So... it is probably best to hold off until you are both really sure you want to do it.


I agree. 

I've never been able to have sex without developing some type of emotion. That's what diverts my brain from the desire for "wild and crazy".


----------



## Jellybeans

COGypsy said:


> I kind of think that sex, or at least the imminent possibility of sex is pretty much what distinguishes dating from other social activities. I have lots of people I can go to the movies or dinner or dancing with. I don't really need too many more of those. *Doing those things with someone I can/want take home and bang like a screen door--that's what makes dating it's own thing.
> *


:rofl:



COGypsy said:


> I think when you're at a point of determining exclusivity is a good time. I


Good rule of thumb. But how does one even approach that talk? And when? (see my other thread). Like when is the right time to do that? When is too soon and whatnot?

(See my other thread about this).


----------



## lisab0105

HappyKaty said:


> You're right. I'm over thinking a super simple issue, which is par for the course, for me.
> 
> Maybe I just need to get laid, and move on.


No, you don't need to get laid. It isn't going to change how you really feel about giving yourself to someone. 

Don't sell yourself short. If it really means something to you, OWN IT. Be proud you aren't giving the goods away to guys that aren't in the same zone as you. 

Trust is earned, respect is earned, sex is earned. People are going to jump me for saying that, but I don't give a damn. All three go hand in hand as far as I am concerned. They have to earn all three with you as you have to earn it with them. IMO of coarse


----------



## HappyKaty

06Daddio08 said:


> If someone tells you that they love you, and they expect to hear it in return ... would you? Even if you didn't?


No. That's not even an issue. If I don't really love you, you aren't going to hear those words exit my mouth.



06Daddio08 said:


> For myself, sex would be great. Messing around with someone in bed would be awesome ... but I refuse to let it be the driver to my relationships or even just getting to know a pretty lady.


I feel the same way. The problem, for me, is finding men who have a mutual thought process.


----------



## Jellybeans

HappyKaty said:


> No. That's not even an issue. If I don't really love you, you aren't going to hear those words exit my mouth.


Me, too. I have never told someone that I loved them if I didn't mean it.


----------



## HappyKaty

lisab0105 said:


> No, you don't need to get laid. It isn't going to change how you really feel about giving yourself to someone.
> 
> Don't sell yourself short. If it really means something to you, OWN IT. Be proud you aren't giving the goods away to guys that aren't in the same zone as you.
> 
> Trust is earned, respect is earned, sex is earned. People are going to jump me for saying that, but I don't give a damn. All three go hand in hand as far as I am concerned. They have to earn all three with you as you have to earn it with them. IMO of coarse


I'm teasing, of course.  

Ultimately, I'll just keep kissing frogs, until I find the prince.


----------



## lisab0105

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> Good rule of thumb. But how does one even approach that talk? And when? (see my other thread). Like when is the right time to do that? When is too soon and whatnot?


I would have that talk either while we are talking before the 1st date (assuming it is online dating) or during the date. I would say "I feel sex is best between two people in a monogamous and trusting relationship. I hope you can respect that I intend to wait until that time to become physically intimate with someone." 

If the date ends after that, never to be heard from again..oh well. If they ask you out for a second date it is either the 1st sign of respect or they are going for the ego boost to see if they can swoon you any sooner.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



HappyKaty said:


> No. That's not even an issue. If I don't really love you, you aren't going to hear those words exit my mouth.
> 
> I feel the same way. The problem, for me, is finding men who have a mutual thought process.


It was the closest thing I could come up with that's on a personal / intimate level, like sex.

You're simply looking in the wrong country.


----------



## arbitrator

HappyKaty said:


> I'm teasing, of course.
> 
> *Ultimately, I'll just keep kissing frogs, until I find the prince. *


*Just as most of us guys will keep on trying to kiss those very same frogs until our "princess" finally appears!*


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



lisab0105 said:


> "I feel sex is best between two people in a monogamous and trusting relationship. I hope you can respect that I intend to wait until that time to become physically intimate with someone."


Exactly. If he is okay with that, then it's up to him to decide through the course of dating when he's not okay waiting anymore.

Which will either end things between you or open up a conversation about it.


----------



## HappyKaty

06Daddio08 said:


> It was the closest thing I could come up with that's on a personal / intimate level, like sex.
> 
> You're simply looking in the wrong country.


Clearly. I'm sure the Latino men would, at least, try to swoon me over a couple of nice dates.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



HappyKaty said:


> Clearly. I'm sure the Latino men would, at least, try to swoon me over a couple of nice dates.


I see what you did there.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

On timing... it can be a guessing game a lot of times for a guy. Women generally want us to initiate, but initiate too soon and she may be spooked. If she has to shut you down early its also a big loss in the attraction factor. Initiate too late and she'll think you're an unassertive puss... another big loss of attraction.

I tend to lean more on the wait side. I do a lot of things to get her thinking about sex, build tension, and get close, but I'm literally restraining myself from making overtly sexual moves. If sex happens early, its almost always because she gave me some kind of signal that said "go for it".

Less often, women are difficult to read or don't give those signals. In those cases, I don't generally escalate for a week or two.

Weirdly, this "wait for it" or "make her pull the trigger"... beta-style approach results in sex 100% of the time for me. The more alpha assertive behavior of running the show, being sexually direct, pushing boundaries and initiating before receiving such a signal bombs about half the time. Albeit the circumstances are a bit different... as the former I am interested in dating, and the latter is more casual, but interesting none-the-less. Its like the alpha approach works great to lure her in, but the somewhat beta approach from there onward gets more bites.

It casts some doubt in my mind about some of the alpha/beta wisdom.


----------



## HappyKaty

arbitrator said:


> *Just as most of us guys will keep on trying to kiss those very same frogs until our "princess" finally appears!*


It's a shame out lips have to get so slimy, in the mean time.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> Maybe I'm just too hard on myself and always prepare for the worst. I assume that if I give it up on the first date, there would be no second one.


Has that ever happened to you?


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> On timing... it can be a guessing game a lot of times for a guy. Women generally want us to initiate, but initiate too soon and she may be spooked. If she has to shut you down early its also a big loss in the attraction factor. Initiate too late and she'll think you're an unassertive puss... another big loss of attraction.


This made me laugh out loud. But, it's SO true.


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Has that ever happened to you?


No, because I've never put myself in the situation for it to happen. But, I've listened to girl friends sob when their hoe-bag tendencies resulted in a second date flat line.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Dedicated2Her said:


> Meh, No sex until I know they are absolutely sane. Period. And that takes time.


Ha... perhaps that's a rule I need to implement. Then again... they don't seem crazy until after having sex. Its like sex throws a crazy switch.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> No, because I've never put myself in the situation for it to happen. But, I've listened to girl friends sob when their hoe-bag tendencies resulted in a second date flat line.


Weird. I don't get why a guy, even one that just wants sex, wouldn't want another bite of the apple so to speak.


----------



## lisab0105

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Weird. I don't get why a guy, even one that just wants sex, wouldn't want another bite of the apple so to speak.


Hit n quit it mentality. Once was enough but he didn't like her enough to hit it again.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

lisab0105 said:


> No, you don't need to get laid.


SHHHHHH!!! Yes she does. 

Hey baby... I like your style. What you got going on tonight?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

lisab0105 said:


> Hit n quit it mentality. Once was enough but he didn't like her enough to hit it again.


Strange. There's nobody I would have sex with that I wouldn't want to have sex with again.


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Strange. There's nobody I would have sex with that I wouldn't want to have sex with again.


That's my thought. I'm not even going out with a man if don't find him attractive enough for sex. Small minded, maybe, but it is what it is.


----------



## COGypsy

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Weird. I don't get why a guy, even one that just wants sex, wouldn't want another bite of the apple so to speak.


I don't know how it is for guys, but I can tell you--I can smell a Stage 5 Clinger once sex happens, whether it's on date 1 or 100. That will get me out the door and down the street in the opposite direction faster than you can spit.

I'm guessing that the girls that HappyKaty is talking about are thinking that sex will get them the relationship rather than feeling the "click" with someone and going with the moment.


----------



## arbitrator

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> On timing... it can be a guessing game a lot of times for a guy. Women generally want us to initiate, but initiate too soon and she may be spooked. If she has to shut you down early its also a big loss in the attraction factor. Initiate too late and she'll think you're an unassertive puss... another big loss of attraction.
> 
> I tend to lean more on the wait side. I do a lot of things to get her thinking about sex, build tension, and get close, but I'm literally restraining myself from making overtly sexual moves. If sex happens early, its almost always because she gave me some kind of signal that said "go for it".
> 
> Less often, women are difficult to read or don't give those signals. In those cases, I don't generally escalate for a week or two.
> 
> Weirdly, this "wait for it" or "make her pull the trigger"... beta-style approach results in sex 100% of the time for me. The more alpha assertive behavior of running the show, being sexually direct, pushing boundaries and initiating before receiving such a signal bombs about half the time. Albeit the circumstances are a bit different... as the former I am interested in dating, and the latter is more casual, but interesting none-the-less. Its like the alpha approach works great to lure her in, but the somewhat beta approach from there onward gets more bites.
> 
> It casts some doubt in my mind about some of the alpha/beta wisdom.


*Great "fishing" advice there, DvlsADVC8! I totally agree!*


----------



## COGypsy

Jellybeans said:


> Good rule of thumb. But how does one even approach that talk? And when? (see my other thread). Like when is the right time to do that? When is too soon and whatnot?
> (See my other thread about this).


I left you a dissertation on this subject on your thread


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> That's my thought. I'm not even going out with a man if don't find him attractive enough for sex. Small minded, maybe, but it is what it is.


Ha, you and everyone else. That's why I'm always trying to squeak just over the bar.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



HappyKaty said:


> That's my thought. I'm not even going out with a man if don't find him attractive enough for sex. Small minded, maybe, but it is what it is.


How is that small minded?


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Ha, you and everyone else. That's why I'm always trying to squeak just over the bar.


It's not just physical attraction. Intellect is a huge turn on for me. In fact, I'd me more inclined to initiate first date sex with Sheldon Cooper, over accepting a third date offer from Channing Tatum.

For reals.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

COGypsy said:


> I don't know how it is for guys, but I can tell you--I can smell a Stage 5 Clinger once sex happens, whether it's on date 1 or 100. That will get me out the door and down the street in the opposite direction faster than you can spit.
> 
> I'm guessing that the girls that HappyKaty is talking about are thinking that sex will get them the relationship rather than feeling the "click" with someone and going with the moment.


Exactly... and I'm retardedly slow out the door to boot.

Agree on HappyKaty's girls. Sex just gets you sex. But sex is pretty damn nice so... haha


----------



## HappyKaty

06Daddio08 said:


> How is that small minded?


Because there's more than what meets the eye. But, I'm not a hound for "hot" guys.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



HappyKaty said:


> Because there's more than what meets the eye. But, I'm not a hound for "hot" guys.


It's all based in individual preferences and such, clearly you have to find the guy attractive. You're own ideal for "hot".


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> It's not just physical attraction. Intellect is a huge turn on for me. In fact, I'd me more inclined to initiate first date sex with Sheldon Cooper, over accepting a third date offer from Channing Tatum.
> 
> For reals.


Not Sheldon! He's so socially awkward it only works for a tv show.

I'm sort of kidding about squeaking by anyhow. I get plenty of attention. But I'm not really a catch looks-wise for the women I go after... what kind of fun would there be if there's no chase?


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Not Sheldon! He's so socially awkward it only works for a tv show.
> 
> I'm sort of kidding about squeaking by anyhow. I get plenty of attention. But I'm not really a catch looks-wise for the women I go after... what kind of fun would there be if there's no chase?


Sheldon is sexy.

That's funny you say that about the chase. One of the "I get hard when the wind blows" guys just text me and said, "For some reason, I can't get you out of my head."

It's because I didn't (and won't) chase.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



HappyKaty said:


> Sheldon is sexy.
> 
> That's funny you say that about the chase. One of the "I get hard when the wind blows" guys just text me and said, "For some reason, I can't get you out of my head."
> 
> It's because I didn't (and won't) chase.


He might want to get that checked out. It's not healthy.


----------



## arbitrator

HappyKaty said:


> It's not just physical attraction. *Intellect is a huge turn on for me*. In fact, I'd me more inclined to initiate first date sex with Sheldon Cooper, over accepting a third date offer from Channing Tatum.
> 
> For reals.


*Intellect in a woman means so very much more to me than just her physical beauty. At least for me, her beauty is simply the icing on the cake, as I really, first and foremost, want to be able to intellectually communicate with her.*


----------



## HappyKaty

arbitrator said:


> *Intellect in a woman means so very much more to me than just her physical beauty. At least for me, her beauty is simply the icing on the cake, as I really, first and foremost, want to be able to intellectually communicate with her.*


I've noticed that men over the age of 40 value intellect much more than men my age. And, I'm very attracted to older men. But, they're usually not real keen on the idea of more children, and that's a show stopper for me.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

HappyKaty said:


> It didn't seem that way, at first.  For a while, there, you were running through 'em.


I was running through them. Dating wise. I had one situation that was clearly a "crazy weekend" type senario. She was NUTS. Fun, but nuts. After seeing that side of bat crazy, I decided to only have sex once I knew them fairly well. 

Even then, though. I'm d*mn picky.

And, I learned not to give it to them that good. It makes uncrazy, crazy.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> Sheldon is sexy.
> 
> That's funny you say that about the chase. One of the "I get hard when the wind blows" guys just text me and said, "For some reason, I can't get you out of my head."
> 
> It's because I didn't (and won't) chase.


That's not chasing... that's just desperation. Proper chasing is seduction. That early tension and seduction period only lasts so long... I enjoy every minute of it.


----------



## Jellybeans

HappyKaty said:


> It's not just physical attraction. Intellect is a huge turn on for me.


Agreed. There is nothing sexier than an intelligent man. 

The brain, to me, is the biggest turn on.


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> That's not chasing... that's just desperation. Proper chasing is seduction. That early tension and seduction period only lasts so long... I enjoy every minute of it.


I do, too. But, I don't wanna be chased for a piece of ass.


----------



## Jellybeans

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Proper chasing is seduction. That early tension and seduction period only lasts so long... I enjoy every minute of it.


:iagree:


----------



## COGypsy

HappyKaty said:


> I do, too. But, I don't wanna be chased for a piece of ass.


Meh. Chasing and fishing are vastly different. He's just dangling his little worm to see if you bite.


----------



## Jellybeans

Dedicated2Her said:


> I had one situation that was clearly a "crazy weekend" type senario. *She was NUTS. Fun, but nuts.*





Dedicated2Her said:


> And, I learned not to give it to them that good. It makes uncrazy, crazy.


:rofl::smthumbup:


----------



## HappyKaty

COGypsy said:


> Meh. Chasing and fishing are vastly different. He's just dangling his little worm to see if you bite.


He must not fish much, if he wants his worm bitten.


----------



## lisab0105

Jellybeans said:


> Agreed. There is nothing sexier than an intelligent man.
> 
> The brain, to me, is the biggest turn on.


First and foremost for me is he should be a wicked smart-ass. Funny for me makes even the not attractive guys, attractive. It goes so far with me. 

Give me Louis CK over Channing Tatum any day of the week.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

> Agreed. There is nothing sexier than an intelligent man.
> 
> The brain, to me, is the biggest turn on.


There was this one girl I met at a bar. My opening line after listening to her and her girlfriend gripe about some dude was "So, what would you say your love language is? He obviously isn't speaking it." 

It opened up a whole can of fun........ That night was epic. Being intelligent, and also emotionally intelligent, in addition to confident, and extremely athletic......especially girls at least in their 30's leads to a whole lot of crazy. lol. So, maybe I should reevaluate.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

> I do, too. But, I don't wanna be chased for a piece of ass.


So, you would prefer ambush predator tactics???


----------



## arbitrator

COGypsy said:


> Meh. Chasing and fishing are vastly different. *He's just dangling his little worm to see if you bite. *


*God, aren't we all?*


----------



## Jellybeans

Dedicated2Her said:


> There was this one girl I met at a bar. My opening line after listening to her and her girlfriend gripe about some dude was* "So, what would you say your love language is? He obviously isn't speaking it." *
> 
> It opened up a whole can of fun........


HAHA. That should be a TAM pick-up line!


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> arbitrator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Intellect in a woman means so very much more to me than just her physical beauty. At least for me, her beauty is simply the icing on the cake, as I really, first and foremost, want to be able to intellectually communicate with her.*
> 
> 
> 
> I've noticed that men over the age of 40 value intellect much more than men my age. And, I'm very attracted to older men. But, they're usually not real keen on the idea of more children, and that's a show stopper for me.
Click to expand...

I think that's true. For me personally that's true. I think one of the reasons is that smart women also value intellect. My own wife is not my equal in that way and it is a source of frustration for a number of reasons. One is that we have a hard time finding things of mutual interest to talk about. Another is that I very much feel like a caretaker. 

My 12 year old daughter is very bright and one of the day's biggest joys for me are the conversations we have on the way to the bus stop in the morning. I like smart girls.

Unfortunately at 46 I am on the fence about children. Not because I don't want them (I love kids) but it might be a little unfair to them when their 70+ year old dad is walking them down the aisle. Divorce is very much in the cards for me and if in my next relationship, she just so happens to get pregnant, I would be very happy ... and if she didn't, that wouldn't bother me either.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## Dedicated2Her

Jellybeans said:


> HAHA. That should be a TAM pick-up line!


LOL. I've used so much of that stuff! My buddy who was with me is still FWB with one of the girls from that group. What guys don't realize is that you just need to get out there, and the opportunities will absolutely present themselves. Just be confident and intelligent enough to see them and not care what anyone thinks. SO MUCH FUN.


----------



## Jellybeans

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> My own wife is not my equal in that way and it is a source of frustration for a number of reasons.


In what capacity? 



Dedicated2Her said:


> Just be confident and intelligent enough to see them and not care what anyone thinks. SO MUCH FUN.


That's the key.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Jellybeans said:


> In what capacity?


She just isn't very bright, lol. Now, that said there is a difference between IQ and EQ (Emotional Intelligence) and she very well may be my superior in the latter. That is clearly demonstrated with the emotional development of our children. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.


----------



## HappyKaty

Dedicated2Her said:


> So, you would prefer ambush predator tactics???


At least I wouldn't have to anticipate the awkwardness that ensues.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Seems like all of the men in the mid-40s here are having a mid-life crisis and just want to get laid or else they want a trophy wife - always a round-bellied man who wants a slender woman who "takes care of herself" yet would never consider me. I have to reel 'em in with something before I can prove my intellect. 

And the ones that are in their upper 40s have grown children and don't want a young teen and expect to get together weeknights a lot. My dating pool is a 36" diameter inflatable.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

HappyKaty said:


> At least I wouldn't have to anticipate the awkwardness that ensues.


Understandable. One of my friends (girl) that just got divorced went on a rampage of craziness (many guys) over the past 8 months. She called me and said, "guess what? I went on a date wednesday night! It was dinner, and we sent into the downtown area and sat on a bench and talked. We didn't go to a bar and we didn't do anything physical!" It was a shock to her to actually go out with a guy and him not expect anything. 

Seriously, stay classy random dudes. It really blows me away.


----------



## HappyKaty

EnjoliWoman said:


> Seems like all of the men in the mid-40s here are having a mid-life crisis and just want to get laid or else they want a trophy wife - always a round-bellied man who wants a slender woman who "takes care of herself" yet would never consider me. I have to reel 'em in with something before I can prove my intellect.
> 
> And the ones that are in their upper 40s have grown children and don't want a young teen and expect to get together weeknights a lot. My dating pool is a 36" diameter inflatable.


It's not much bigger for a single, childless 32-year old woman. 

I'm not a size 6, but I'm comfortable with my appearance and don't have an issue attracting men. It's keeping their attention that I struggle with. 

If they're younger than 30, they want a FWB scenario. Those 30-40 are looking for someone that will have sex immediately, and if it doesn't happen, they move on to the next available. 

I totally agree with your observation of the mid 40's. In their minds, their 20-minute daily treadmill jog entitles them to a Victoria's Secret Angel. I think it's precious. Lol.


----------



## COGypsy

HappyKaty said:


> It's not much bigger for a single, childless 32-year old woman.
> 
> I'm not a size 6, but I'm comfortable with my appearance and don't have an issue attracting men. It's keeping their attention that I struggle with.
> 
> If they're younger than 30, they want a FWB scenario. Those 30-40 are looking for someone that will have sex immediately, and if it doesn't happen, they move on to the next available.
> 
> I totally agree with your observation of the mid 40's. In their minds, their 20-minute daily treadmill jog entitles them to a Victoria's Secret Angel. I think it's precious. Lol.


I wonder if it's the age of the guys or their marital status? Guys under 30 are probably not ready to settle down yet and so want something more casual. If they're divorced, they may be in that "I'm FREE" frenzy that a lot of us experienced. Never married might be a better option to look for than a particular age.

I'm pretty convinced that relationships are more about timing than the details of a person. Looks, interests, intellect are all important, don't get me wrong. But I think that there's a lot to be said for timing. I really think that when I met my ex, I was at a stage to start looking for someone to settle down with. I know that being past that stage (at least for the time being) I wouldn't have spent a tenth of the time with him that I did then. I kind of wonder if that isn't a big part of what we usually just call "chemistry".


----------



## bravenewworld

EnjoliWoman said:


> Seems like all of the men in the mid-40s here are having a mid-life crisis and just want to get laid or else they want a trophy wife - always a round-bellied man who wants a slender woman who "takes care of herself" yet would never consider me. I have to reel 'em in with something before I can prove my intellect.
> 
> And the ones that are in their upper 40s have grown children and don't want a young teen and expect to get together weeknights a lot. My dating pool is a 36" diameter inflatable.


This is so obnoxious. It's funny because I've found a lot of really good looking guys are attracted to me (I'm chubby but in shape - my 5k time beats most people who weigh less!) and yet there are still some dudes with guts bigger than mine who ignore to me to hit on my friends who look like models. Friends who have no interest in them and are actually married if these clueless guys bothered to check for a wedding ring. Like seriously dude, you look like Jabba the Hut meets Kevin Spacey. And worse than that, your manners stink. 

Hint to all single men: even if you aren't attracted to her friends, at least be nice and include them in the conversation for crying out loud. Money takes you far but manners will take you everywhere. I always try to be polite to men who talk to me, even if they are not my "type."


----------



## Jellybeans

COGypsy said:


> I'm pretty convinced that relationships are more about timing than the details of a person. Looks, interests, intellect are all important, don't get me wrong. But I think that there's a lot to be said for timing.


:iagree:

It's all about timing and being on the same page. Sometimes it just clicks.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

EnjoliWoman said:


> Seems like all of the men in the mid-40s here are having a mid-life crisis and just want to get laid or else they want a trophy wife - always a round-bellied man who wants a slender woman who "takes care of herself" yet would never consider me. I have to reel 'em in with something before I can prove my intellect.
> 
> And the ones that are in their upper 40s have grown children and don't want a young teen and expect to get together weeknights a lot. My dating pool is a 36" diameter inflatable.


I take offense to this. It is true that intimacy is lacking in my life, having been nearly celibate for many years now and it is on my mind but my objective is not to get laid. If my relationship with my wife was good then 'getting laid' wouldn't be an issue.

I am interested in companionship and intimacy, both of which I have fought hard to get back in my life without success. If or when I enter the dating pool, I will not be looking for the easy lay with the hot bod ... I will be looking for a real person I can share my life with.

I'm 46, have all my hair and 6 pack abs ... and I approve this message 

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> If or when I enter the dating pool, I will not be looking for the easy lay with the hot bod ... I will be looking for a real person I can share my life with.
> 
> I'm 46, have all my hair and 6 pack abs ... and I approve this message
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


You, sir, are a rare breed.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> If or when I enter the dating pool, I will not be looking for the easy lay with the hot bod ... I will be looking for a real person I can share my life with.
> 
> I'm 46, have all my hair and 6 pack abs ... and I approve this message
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_
> 
> 
> 
> You, sir, are a rare breed.
Click to expand...

It's simple really. I'm happiest when I am giving of myself to another person. Took me a long time to realize that. I have a lot to share. I don't want to be happy for an hour or so. I want to be happy for a lifetime.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> It's simple really. I'm happiest when I am giving of myself to another person. Took me a long time to realize that. I have a lot to share. I don't want to be happy for an hour or so. I want to be happy for a lifetime.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


That's me! And, that's why I get so discouraged. I have so much to offer the right man, but how do you make them see it's worth waiting for (at least longer than a couple of dinners)?


----------



## EnjoliWoman

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I take offense to this. It is true that intimacy is lacking in my life, having been nearly celibate for many years now and it is on my mind but my objective is not to get laid. If my relationship with my wife was good then 'getting laid' wouldn't be an issue.
> 
> I am interested in companionship and intimacy, both of which I have fought hard to get back in my life without success. If or when I enter the dating pool, I will not be looking for the easy lay with the hot bod ... I will be looking for a real person I can share my life with.
> 
> I'm 46, have all my hair and 6 pack abs ... and I approve this message
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


See, you fit in the 36" pool! I didn't say men like you didn't exist - just that it was slim pickings.  

And I don't want to make it sounds like I'm huge - I'm overweight and active and fit with a good career and a life and interests of my own. And I know men are visual - I'm a pretty woman (I think) and I'm pretty content with who I am. I wear a size 16 but most guys want someone who is quite a bit smaller and that is obvious in their dating profiles. I lean toward beefier men but I've dated the gamut except really skinny ones.

The right one is worth waiting for!


----------



## EnjoliWoman

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> It's simple really. I'm happiest when I am giving of myself to another person. Took me a long time to realize that. I have a lot to share. I don't want to be happy for an hour or so. I want to be happy for a lifetime.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


Ditto. I love being a g/f or wife. I just didn't like my husband!


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> That's me! And, that's why I get so discouraged. I have so much to offer the right man, but how do you make them see it's worth waiting for (at least longer than a couple of dinners)?


You can't make them. The right one will pick up on that and be willing to invest the time to get to know who you are.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

EnjoliWoman said:


> Ditto. I love being a g/f or wife. I just didn't like my husband!


Ha! Well, I can't say I don't like my wife. She is a good person ... I may have complaints about the circumstances of our life together but you will never hear me get into a b!tch session about her as a person. However, we are much better friends and parents than partners in life.


----------



## HappyKaty

I like my ex-husband WAY better, now, than I ever did while we were dating or married.


----------



## hambone

HappyKaty said:


> That's me! And, that's why I get so discouraged. I have so much to offer the right man, but how do you make them see it's worth waiting for (at least longer than a couple of dinners)?


I don't think you can "make them see it". 

I think you just have to mix and mingle and stay single (not dating steady) until the right person comes along..

Too many people are tied up in a relationship that is heading no place and they are TRYING to make it work..

My wife and I as in love... we're in like. she's my best friend.. We have so much in common... And we respect each other... For example, I would NEVER rub a piece of cake in my wife's face... 

the bottom line point I'm trying to make is we don't have to work at our marriage. Our marriage is easy. 

You are on the right track. You marry someone because you love them so much you want to make them happy. You've got to find that magic person who feels the same way about you.

People who marry for what they can get out of a relationship.. are doomed to failure.


----------



## hambone

Continueing that "I don't think you can make them see it".

Maybe the guy you're looking for is that guy that would NEVER approach you and ask you out for a date..

WHY? Because he thinks you are too good for him... That you would never be interested in him... He has you up on a pedestal. He doesn't feel worthy of you.. 

The guy you're not looking for is the "playa!". Clearly, he is looking for what will advance him... He's a taker..

What do ya'll think?


----------



## HappyKaty

What do you guys think about online dating? 

I know...the same type of people can be found every where. But, I live in an incredibly small town, and the pickings are slim. Plus, my ex grew up here, so my name has been slaughtered to all the available men.

Maybe I could try the online thing...


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

EnjoliWoman said:


> See, you fit in the 36" pool! I didn't say men like you didn't exist - just that it was slim pickings.
> 
> And I don't want to make it sounds like I'm huge - I'm overweight and active and fit with a good career and a life and interests of my own. And I know men are visual - I'm a pretty woman (I think) and I'm pretty content with who I am. I wear a size 16 but most guys want someone who is quite a bit smaller and that is obvious in their dating profiles. I lean toward beefier men but I've dated the gamut except really skinny ones.
> 
> The right one is worth waiting for!


Ha! Well, you would never be into me. I have a metabolism like a rabbit. I am not "really skinny" but nobody would confuse me with beefy. I have to eat constantly and lift weights to keep weight on. I am well-defined and fit with broad shoulders. I will be on somebody's radar ... I hope. 

You have nothing to worry about ...

"I'm overweight and active and fit with a good career and a life and interests of my own."

Sounds attractive to me. Have a great smile and a positive attitude and you'd have me hooked


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> What do you guys think about online dating?
> 
> I know...the same type of people can be found every where. But, I live in an incredibly small town, and the pickings are slim. Plus, my ex grew up here, so my name has been slaughtered to all the available men.
> 
> Maybe I could try the online thing...


I don't think it is a bad idea if you pick the right dating sight. I know people who had great success with match. One woman I know is set to marry somebody she met on match. I've met him and he's a great guy. She did have to go through a few losers before she found him but I think a lot of that was on her. The good thing is that you can weed a lot of things out and setup boundaries before meeting face to face.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

COGypsy said:


> He's just dangling his little worm to see if you bite.


----------



## COGypsy

HappyKaty said:


> What do you guys think about online dating?
> 
> I know...the same type of people can be found every where. But, I live in an incredibly small town, and the pickings are slim. Plus, my ex grew up here, so my name has been slaughtered to all the available men.
> 
> Maybe I could try the online thing...


I've had great success with online dating. I met my ex on Match and while we're not together anymore, we were for 10 years. I'd count that as an online success! I also met my current BF on Match and we've been having a great time for almost 9 months now. 

I do think though that you bring your dating habits and expectations with you no matter the medium. Online can be a good tool though for ruling out people that aren't on the same page. For me, it's useful in ruling out guys that have/want kids and guys that are skiing every weekend. You can also get a sense of what people are looking for and what they like to do that can be helpful. I'd go with a paid site though--a lot of the free ones tend to be more geared for the hookup.


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> The good thing is that you can weed a lot of things out and setup boundaries before meeting face to face.


That's kinda what I was thinking. 

If I can, at least, get a feel for their personalities, beforehand, that has to act as a useful filter. 

I'm sure some are super convincing liars, though. Everytime I think of online dating, I envision the 500-pound 50-year old man, in his mother's basement, with a picture of John Stamos on his profile.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

bravenewworld said:


> Hint to all single men: even if you aren't attracted to her friends, at least be nice and include them in the conversation for crying out loud. Money takes you far but manners will take you everywhere. I always try to be polite to men who talk to me, even if they are not my "type."


This is a dirty tactic, but given a group of single women, where one is hotter than the others and you want the hotter... one of the most effective approaches is to hit on all BUT the hot one.

Dunno if its jealousy or what not, but she will start to attention seek eventually. And when she does so, its easy to highlight connections the two of you have and move the conversation to her. Its still difficult to get one on one time, but you can usually get a number when they leave... whereas the odds are lower had you given her the attention right off the bat.

The friends are actually the easy way in. They don't tend to have their guard up as high and the fact that you didn't go for the one - who honestly knows she's more attractive - signals to her that you're just a friendly guy. Very disarming, very effective and quite shady.

I know, I know... I'm terrible.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> That's kinda what I was thinking.
> 
> If I can, at least, get a feel for their personalities, beforehand, that has to act as a useful filter.
> 
> I'm sure some are super convincing liars, though. Everytime I think of online dating, I envision the 500-pound 50-year old man, in his mother's basement, with a picture of John Stamos on his profile.


lol ... well, I guess there is always that risk ... but there is a risk with dating period. 

I suppose a solution to that is to setup a meeting first that isn't really a date. Coffee at Starbucks in the middle of the day kind of thing. There would be no expectations ... just getting a feel for each other face to face.


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> This is a dirty tactic, but given a group of single women, where one is hotter than the others and you want the hotter... one of the most effective approaches is to hit on all BUT the hot one.
> 
> Dunno if its jealousy or what not, but she will start to attention seek eventually. And when she does so, its easy to highlight connections the two of you have and move the conversation to her. Its still difficult to get one on one time, but you can usually get a number when they leave... whereas the odds are lower had you given her the attention right off the bat.
> 
> The friends are actually the easy way in. They don't tend to have their guard up as high and the fact that you didn't go for the one - who honestly knows she's more attractive - signals to her that you're just a friendly guy. Very disarming, very effective and quite shady.
> 
> I know, I know... I'm terrible.


You're not terrible. Women do the same thing.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> What do you guys think about online dating?
> 
> I know...the same type of people can be found every where. But, I live in an incredibly small town, and the pickings are slim. Plus, my ex grew up here, so my name has been slaughtered to all the available men.
> 
> Maybe I could try the online thing...


I met a couple perfectly nice women online and one crazy... so my experience is limited.

However, several women have repeatedly told me horror stories about online dating. Specifically that a ton of the men online are married... especially the good ones... whatever that means.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> You're not terrible. Women do the same thing.


Ha! Well, at least now I have a good line to say now when the girls aren't talking to me on a night out. 

Sorry boys... I must be the hot one.


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I met a couple perfectly nice women online and one crazy... so my experience is limited.
> 
> However, several women have repeatedly told me horror stories about online dating. Specifically that a ton of the men online are married... especially the good ones... whatever that means.


The married thing happens, regardless. I met a man, AT MY CHURCH, that was married. I didn't find out until we'd gone on three dates.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> The married thing happens, regardless. I met a man, AT MY CHURCH, that was married. I didn't find out until we'd gone on three dates.


Balls!! They must have been so big that man HAD to strut. lol


----------



## Ceegee

HappyKaty said:


> It'
> 
> I totally agree with your observation of the mid 40's. In their minds, their 20-minute daily treadmill jog entitles them to a Victoria's Secret Angel. I think it's precious. Lol.


It's hard to argue with the results HK. 

Being 41, bald and a tad overweight, I've never enjoyed as much attention as I do now. 

Being successful, funny, confident and an awesome dad (if I do say so myself)?seriously boosts my sex rank.

Never in my life have I been hit on as much as I have in the last year or two.


----------



## Ceegee

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Balls!! They must have been so big that man HAD to strut. lol


The size of church bells?


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Ceegee said:


> It's hard to argue with the results HK.
> 
> Being 41, bald and a tad overweight, I've never enjoyed as much attention as I do now.
> 
> Being successful, funny, confident and an awesome dad (if I do say so myself)?seriously boosts my sex rank.
> 
> Never in my life have I been hit on as much as I have in the last year or two.


Actually the awesome dad thing probably does have some weight to it. I get that compliment a lot from women.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Actually the awesome dad thing probably does have some weight to it. I get that compliment a lot from women.


Girls with daddy issues love us.


----------



## bravenewworld

HappyKaty said:


> What do you guys think about online dating?
> 
> I know...the same type of people can be found every where. But, I live in an incredibly small town, and the pickings are slim. Plus, my ex grew up here, so my name has been slaughtered to all the available men.
> 
> Maybe I could try the online thing...


I've had really good luck with the online thing. I did a free site and put up a flattering pic of me up close smiling + a full body shot. I got a lot of responses and went out with three guys. Two were attractive but gave off more of a friend vibe. One I had great chemistry with and am still seeing. 

Each person was super polite and was who they said they were. They even took me out for nice dates and paid (sorry guys I'm old fashioned so that scores points with me.) In real life I met a few guys who turned out to be married so it was kind of funny the online guys on average seemed to be more honest. 

I was so afraid to date online (catfish! gah!) but this experience really changed my perspective. Actually had to take the online profile down because of all the responses....maybe I'll put it back up when work slows down.


----------



## Cosmos

When the relationship has reached the stage where it's exclusive.


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



HappyKaty said:


> What do you guys think about online dating?
> 
> I know...the same type of people can be found every where. But, I live in an incredibly small town, and the pickings are slim. Plus, my ex grew up here, so my name has been slaughtered to all the available men.
> 
> Maybe I could try the online thing...


Doesn't hurt to try the online thing a few times. Although admittedly I suggest this with no desire to ever give online dating a shot. Haha.


----------



## HappyKaty

06Daddio08 said:


> Girls with daddy issues love us.


Girls who want their future children to have good daddies love y'all.


----------



## HappyKaty

Ceegee said:


> It's hard to argue with the results HK.
> 
> Being 41, bald and a tad overweight, I've never enjoyed as much attention as I do now.
> 
> Being successful, funny, confident and an awesome dad (if I do say so myself)?seriously boosts my sex rank.
> 
> Never in my life have I been hit on as much as I have in the last year or two.


Nothing wrong with that. Enjoy your Angels.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ha! Well, you would never be into me. I have a metabolism like a rabbit. I am not "really skinny" but nobody would confuse me with beefy. I have to eat constantly and lift weights to keep weight on. I am well-defined and fit with broad shoulders. I will be on somebody's radar ... I hope.
> 
> You have nothing to worry about ...
> 
> "I'm overweight and active and fit with a good career and a life and interests of my own."
> 
> Sounds attractive to me. Have a great smile and a positive attitude and you'd have me hooked


Ah, see - nice shoulders are a huge plus! And I like to cook so you can eat LOL (but in IL  ) I'm sure you will be on someone's radar. I have a positive attitude and a great smile so someone will eventually notice.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Ceegee said:


> It's hard to argue with the results HK.
> 
> Being 41, bald and a tad overweight, I've never enjoyed as much attention as I do now.
> 
> Being successful, funny, confident and an awesome dad (if I do say so myself)?seriously boosts my sex rank.
> 
> Never in my life have I been hit on as much as I have in the last year or two.


Now where does one go to find the bald, tad overweight, successful, funny, confident and awesome dad so I can hit on them? And if I did, would they even notice? 

Granted I haven't been consistent at smiling and making meaningful eye contact to appear welcoming to such flirtations and when I have, it ended there in the grocery line.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

As to online dating I found match.com to be the best. eHarmony is tedious and you can't choose the body type you're looking for and honestly I'm afraid I'll get some guys who show up and tell me to lose 40 and get back to them. I realize these are MY issues but...

Plenty of fish is full of cheap men looking to get laid with minimal effort. (I'm generalizing but that's my experience.) Same for Zoosk and Cupid only a tiny bit better.

Match ended up with just as good results as face to face meetings. Match resulted in lots of great guys, 1 long term friendship and 1 relationship that lasted 9 months. Meeting men out and about resulted in a short dating stint and 1 relationship.

I've only met one creeper on match. He was cheap, thoughtless and assuming. He "forgot" his share of the picnic food but remembered the blanket and wanted to have make out when we got back and this was our second date.

I did meet one guy who still lived with his mother although that was revealed on the date where he kissed me goodnight and tried to slide his hand up my thigh under my skirt. Mostly they are shorter than they say. But men usually over-estimate measurements. 

ETA - I am considering joining a match making service where they do a photo shoot, tape a video and set you up with individual men. It's $750 but I think it would be much more meaningful to know that the person you are going out with has seen photos, read your profile, saw your video and wants to meet you and has been fully screened and confirmed single with a clear criminal background. What do you guys think? Does it seem desperate to pay that much? I'm just thinking the quality and the likelihood of hitting it off will be so much better.


----------



## HappyKaty

EW -

What are their reviews like? I'd definitely look into it, as $750 is a LOT of money (for me). Are their success rates, for all types, promising?


----------



## Ceegee

EnjoliWoman said:


> Now where does one go to find the bald, tad overweight, successful, funny, confident and awesome dad so I can hit on them? And if I did, would they even notice?
> 
> Granted I haven't been consistent at smiling and making meaningful eye contact to appear welcoming to such flirtations and when I have, it ended there in the grocery line.


I'd notice. 

I'm a sucker for good skin, white teeth and bright red lipstick. 

It's funny you mention the grocery line. The grocery store is where I've been hit on the most but it's never gone anywhere. 

One women asked me if I'd come over and show her how to grill some fish. My kids (12, 10 & 7) were standing right there. I declined.


----------



## HappyKaty

EnjoliWoman said:


> Mostly they are shorter than they say. But men usually over-estimate measurements.


The short thing has been a BIG issue for me. I didn't realize, until I started dating, how many short men there are! No offense to anyone, but I can't do it, as I'm 5'9" and like to wear heels. 

My blind date and I met at the restaurant, and when he got out of his car, I immediately thought "Oh, nooo!". He was very attractive, but at least two inches shorter than me, BEFORE my heels. That, alone, killed any potential for that date.


----------



## Jellybeans

hambone said:


> My wife and I as in love... we're in like.
> 
> the bottom line point I'm trying to make is we don't have to work at our marriage. Our marriage is easy.
> 
> You are on the right track. You marry someone because you love them so much you want to make them happy. You've got to find that magic person who feels the same way about you.


Another sweet post, Hambone. How long of dating did you realize she was your The One? Or that it would be something significant in your life?



HappyKaty said:


> The married thing happens, regardless. I met a man, AT MY CHURCH, that was married. I didn't find out until we'd gone on three dates.


Oh dear GAWD. Awful. Does his wife not attend church with him??!



Ceegee said:


> It's funny you mention the grocery line. The grocery store is where I've been hit on the most but it's never gone anywhere.


Me, too. I get hit on and checked out at the grocery store often.



HappyKaty said:


> My blind date and I met at the restaurant, and when he got out of his car, I immediately thought "Oh, nooo!". He was very attractive, but at least two inches shorter than me, BEFORE my heels. That, alone, killed any potential for that date.


Aw, you shouldn't knock him just cause he was shorter (or any man). They could be really great guys who are sweet and respectful. Just saying.




Cosmos said:


> When the relationship has reached the stage where it's exclusive.


Always a good way to determine when to have sex.

I have made out with guys before we are exclusive and have "the talk." Is that bad?


----------



## HappyKaty

Jellybeans said:


> Oh dear GAWD. Awful. Does his wife not attend church with him??!


No. Nor, do his kids. He's been coming, alone, for upwards of a year.





Jellybeans said:


> Aw, you shouldn't knock him just cause he was shorter (or any man). They could be really great guys who are sweet and respectful. Just saying.


I know. And, I hate being so shallow, in that sense. But, it definitely bothers me, and I can't ignore it. I guess everyone has their own list of cans and cannots, in regards to toleration.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> The short thing has been a BIG issue for me. I didn't realize, until I started dating, how many short men there are! No offense to anyone, but I can't do it, as I'm 5'9" and like to wear heels.
> 
> My blind date and I met at the restaurant, and when he got out of his car, I immediately thought "Oh, nooo!". He was very attractive, but at least two inches shorter than me, BEFORE my heels. That, alone, killed any potential for that date.


Yeah ... I'm 5'11" and I'm easily the tallest in my family. I work with guys ... lots of guys ... and I'd say I'm taller than 60% of them. So ... yes, lots of "short" guys.

5'9" seems on the tallish side for a woman.


----------



## arbitrator

Jellybeans said:


> Me, too. *I get hit on and checked out at the grocery store often.*


*Probably just too much beta in me as I'm definitely not the "hitting-on" type!*



Jellybeans said:


> *I have made out with guys before we are exclusive and have "the talk." Is that bad?*


*No, it is not bad at all! That is exactly how I feel. Even if we were to casually get around to talking about sex, once we've pretty well established that things are going well between us relationship-wise, I would largely be uncomfortable about initiating sex in any other way!
*


----------



## EnjoliWoman

HappyKaty said:


> EW -
> 
> What are their reviews like? I'd definitely look into it, as $750 is a LOT of money (for me). Are their success rates, for all types, promising?


After seeing it was $750 I didn't look any further into it. I can't afford it until next spring with having the holidays and maintenance on the car. If I start looking into it by going for an appointment to meet them I'll check out stats and BBB, etc.


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> 5'9" seems on the tallish side for a woman.


Yeah, and I'm fully aware that it's more MY issue, than the man's. It just makes my dating pool a little more shallow. 

Yet, another reason I am considering online dating. Maybe getting to know someone, before seeing them in person, would put a lid on some of my 'pickiness'. 

On the other hand, I'm not certain I want to put a lid on it. I settled six years ago, and I never want to do that again.


----------



## arbitrator

HappyKaty said:


> The married thing happens, regardless. I met a man, *AT MY CHURCH*, that was married. I didn't find out until we'd gone on three dates.


*That rectum seriously needed to be outed to both the Church and to his old lady!!*


----------



## hambone

arbitrator said:


> *That rectum seriously needed to be outed to both the Church and to his old lady!!*


I agree. If he isn't exposed he'll just keep on doing the same ole thing.. and there will just be other victims.


----------



## HappyKaty

arbitrator said:


> *That rectum seriously needed to be outed to both the Church and to his old lady!!*


He was.


----------



## arbitrator

HappyKaty said:


> He was.


*Ka-Ching!!*

*Then I would be safe in saying that about right now, that at least one member of that congregation is a eunuch!*


----------



## hambone

HappyKaty said:


> He was.


Does he still go to church there?


----------



## HappyKaty

arbitrator said:


> *Ka-Ching!!*
> 
> *Then I would be safe in saying that about right now, that at least one member of that congregation is a eunuch!*


Haha! Likely.

Apparently his wife was okay with it, though. So me, two years ago.


----------



## HappyKaty

hambone said:


> Does he still go to church there?


Yeah, I've seen him a couple of times. He sits in the balcony now, though.


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> It depends. I have no rules. Sometimes it has been rather soon if I felt very close to someone - other times I've known them for quite a long time. Upon reflection, the long-term relationships started the slowest, though - in the 4-6 month range. Hm.


I enjoy the romance itself. For me I know it's something genuine where there's no sense of urgency to hop inthe sac.
A part of me also enjoys the slow steady process and sense of being in control of the situation.

Once the "event" happens it feel like things "change".


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Jellybeans said:


> Me, too. I get hit on and checked out at the grocery store often.


Grocery stores, bookstores and coffee shops are my favorite places to chat someone up. :\



Jellybeans said:


> I have made out with guys before we are exclusive and have "the talk." Is that bad?


I've never had "the talk"... that must be REALLY bad then. 

My default is that if there is a date involved, I'm exclusive and I keep dating or not dating her on her own merit. Continuing to play the field while going on dates with someone just makes me less into them. Its not a fair shake, its too complicated, and it makes you more prone to compare.

I don't even schedule dates with multiple women. Doing so makes me feel like I'm not really trying with either one and I'm short-changing the whole experience. Plus, who can remember all those details without getting any crossed up?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> Yeah, and I'm fully aware that it's more MY issue, than the man's. It just makes my dating pool a little more shallow.


On the plus side, height is listed on most online profiles. I don't think its commonly lied about beyond an inch or two, as its going to be evident the second you meet them. So just pick guys who say they are 6' or taller to handle the "fudge" factor. haha


----------



## EnjoliWoman

aston said:


> I enjoy the romance itself. For me I know it's something genuine where there's no sense of urgency to hop inthe sac.
> A part of me also enjoys the slow steady process and sense of being in control of the situation.
> 
> Once the "event" happens it feel like things "change".


Yes, it's like getting a new toy. The focus thereafter often becomes sex. Instead of go to dinner, flirty conversation at a relaxed pace, back to his place to lounge, kiss, hold hands, talk it becomes dinner with double entendre/innuendo and straight back for sex. Talking seems to take a back seat after that. 

A single-mindedness approach is great on occasion but being in each others' heads is the best way to make both sex and the relationship great. And making memories of doing stuff together is important, too - it gives insight into interests and how they handle things (like unexpected changes) and things to reminisce/laugh over and inside jokes, etc.


----------



## Jellybeans

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Grocery stores, bookstores and coffee shops are my favorite places to chat someone up. :\


Funny. Cause those are my regular haunts. 



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> My default is that if there is a date involved, I'm exclusive and I keep dating or not dating her on her own merit. Continuing to play the field while going on dates with someone just makes me less into them. Its not a fair shake, its too complicated, and it makes you more prone to compare.
> 
> I don't even schedule dates with multiple women. Doing so makes me feel like I'm not really trying with either one and I'm short-changing the whole experience. Plus, who can remember all those details without getting any crossed up?


I tend to agree. I know it's probably wise to date more than one person BUT it gets complicated once you start involving several people.

I had my own personal goal of going out on ten dates with ten different guys and I am still low on the list of numbers. Not sure how the heck ten dates would come by. Just cause I think it's important to vary, especially after a divorce. But alas, seems I am not built that way... :scratchhead:


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Jellybeans said:


> Funny. Cause those are my regular haunts.


Oh you're in trouble now. Anyone else hear the jaws theme playing? 



Jellybeans said:


> I tend to agree. I know it's probably wise to date more than one person BUT it gets complicated once you start involving several people.


I tried it, because of things said on this forum... and the revelation after bringing it up that a lot of people I know do this (especially women). Those dates were piss poor. It stifled my creativity, caused me to hold back, made me compare where I otherwise wouldn't have. It turned dating, which is as much art as science imo, into something really mechanical feeling (which is weird for me to say, because I'm all about process). Having those same "get to know you" conversations in such close succession just completely ruined it. For lack of a better word, its like I was bored with it. As in, didn't I already have this conversation just yesterday? The way I show myself is typically through story telling. My enthusiasm for telling my funny stories tanked... because I was just telling the same story the other day. It was totally boring for me.

I don't know how people do it... but I understand their reasoning - scheduling concerns, lack of opportunity, seeing as much as possible etc.

It just didn't work for me. It totally robbed me of my strongest traits - being unique, enthusiastic, clever and creative.


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> Yes, it's like getting a new toy.
> 
> A single-mindedness approach is great on occasion but being in each others' heads is the best way to make both sex and the relationship great. And making memories of doing stuff together is important, too - it gives insight into interests and how they handle things (like unexpected changes) and things to reminisce/laugh over and inside jokes, etc.


Precisely! the banter and relaxed pace is very "Adult"...which I tend to enjoy very much. There's nothing like conversation over red wine or a great meal cooked together, or watching an old Humphrey Bogart classic (black and white of course) and discussing interests.
I think in alot of cases people have forgotten how to date...or be friends. There often is a sense of urgency...rush rush rush, which in it's own is reflective of the state of our society as a whole.


----------



## hambone

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> My default is that if there is a date involved, I'm exclusive and I keep dating or not dating her on her own merit. Continuing to play the field while going on dates with someone just makes me less into them. Its not a fair shake, its too complicated, and it makes you more prone to compare.
> 
> I don't even schedule dates with multiple women. Doing so makes me feel like I'm not really trying with either one and I'm short-changing the whole experience. Plus, who can remember all those details without getting any crossed up?


I disagree. When I was between wives, I never dated the same girl more than twice. I didn't want to fall into a relationship with someone. 

At the same time, I didn't want to lead women on. So, I refrained from having sex with them. Once you've had sex with a woman... the think you're getting married. I didn't want that guilt... So, I didn't have sex with them.

And, if they got too clingy.. I told them, "Look, I'm not looking to get married... if you want to get married... you need to look some place else".

Funny, during this period... I actually had one girl who gave me the talk. She was in love with someone else. It kind of shocked me. I'm thinking... how do I tell this girl that marrying her was the last thing on my mind... without upsetting her.

I told her something like.. "look, I am not interested in marrying anyone... we are just dating and having fun". With that.. she blew my mind. She says, "Well... then... let's *uck" and tore her clothes off as fast as she could. We were FWB after that...


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> Yeah, and I'm fully aware that it's more MY issue, than the man's. It just makes my dating pool a little more shallow.
> 
> Yet, another reason I am considering online dating. Maybe getting to know someone, before seeing them in person, would put a lid on some of my 'pickiness'.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm not certain I want to put a lid on it. I settled six years ago, and I never want to do that again.


Hey, you like what you like.

I like short to medium height blondes. Stirs my nether regions, lol. Just do and don't know why. Now, I didn't marry someone who remotely fits that description but hey.


----------



## aston

hambone said:


> At the same time, I didn't want to lead women on. So, I refrained from having sex with them. Once you've had sex with a woman... the think you're getting married. I didn't want that guilt... So, I didn't have sex with them.
> 
> And, if they got too clingy.. I told them, "Look, I'm not looking to get married... if you want to get married... you need to look some place else".
> 
> Funny, during this period... I actually had one girl who gave me the talk. She was in love with someone else. It kind of shocked me. I'm thinking... how do I tell this girl that marrying her was the last thing on my mind... without upsetting her.
> 
> I told her something like.. "look, I am not interested in marrying anyone... we are just dating and having fun". With that.. she blew my mind. She says, "Well... then... let's *uck" and tore her clothes off as fast as she could. We were FWB after that...


HAHA WELL SAID! Once you sleep with a girl there is a chemical change in their system (no pun intended) and suddenly they're planning their lives around / with you. However, keyword here being "girl" as there's a difference between a girl and a woman but again even most women after sex automatically start having white pickett fence dreams. 
I've dated so called "independent women" who were only as independent as they were in public. Peel off the layers and they want to latch on. In the same token you might meet a very different type of woman as I recently did.

Just be honest with her and yourself, thats all you can do.


----------



## Jellybeans

aston said:


> Precisely! the banter and relaxed pace is very "Adult"...which I tend to enjoy very much. There's nothing like conversation over red wine or a great meal cooked together, or watching an old Humphrey Bogart classic (black and white of course) and discussing interests.
> I think in alot of cases people have forgotten how to date...or be friends. There often is a sense of urgency...rush rush rush, which in it's own is reflective of the state of our society as a whole.


So how long before you make out/hook up?


----------



## aston

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Hey, you like what you like.
> 
> I like short to medium height blondes. Stirs my nether regions, lol. Just do and don't know why. Now, I didn't marry someone who remotely fits that description but hey.


I have an almost exclusive affinity for women with short hair!


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

hambone said:


> At the same time, I didn't want to lead women on. So, I refrained from having sex with them. Once you've had sex with a woman... the think you're getting married. I didn't want that guilt... So, I didn't have sex with them.


Some really do... but I don't think most are that naïve. For the most part my experience is that they're just as happy to get laid if you're a nice enough guy, also interested in talking and spending time with them.

There's no guilt in discovering someone just isn't for you, and neither I, nor most women I think, are going to totally hold out till we're certain we have found "the one". I think its more about just having a fair shake. Getting to know someone... and even for many women, not feeling lonely. Breakups are always disappointing, but I don't think most women were hearing wedding bells.... so sayeth my intuition. Maybe the ladies can answer to that one.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

hambone said:


> I disagree. When I was between wives, I never dated the same girl more than twice. I didn't want to fall into a relationship with someone.
> 
> At the same time, I didn't want to lead women on. So, I refrained from having sex with them. Once you've had sex with a woman... the think you're getting married. I didn't want that guilt... So, I didn't have sex with them.
> 
> And, if they got too clingy.. I told them, "Look, I'm not looking to get married... if you want to get married... you need to look some place else".
> 
> Funny, during this period... I actually had one girl who gave me the talk. She was in love with someone else. It kind of shocked me. I'm thinking... how do I tell this girl that marrying her was the last thing on my mind... without upsetting her.
> 
> I told her something like.. "look, I am not interested in marrying anyone... we are just dating and having fun". With that.. she blew my mind. She says, "Well... then... let's *uck" and tore her clothes off as fast as she could. We were FWB after that...


Awesome for you ... but didn't she just say she was in love with somebody else? Strange way to love somebody ... keep a f buddy on the side.


----------



## aston

Jellybeans said:


> So how long before you make out/hook up?


Only when it feels right to be honest. Honest conversation and good company creates a sense of ease that makes even gazing into the other persons eyes part of foreplay. The longer you can drag it out the better IMHO. There's no time frame for it. It has to flow naturally IMHO. When it eventually happens you shouldn't even see it coming......

When people "plan" on it happening then it's somewhat "pressured"


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Hey, you like what you like.
> 
> I like short to medium height blondes. Stirs my nether regions, lol. Just do and don't know why. Now, I didn't marry someone who remotely fits that description but hey.


I didn't marry my "type", either, which lets me know that I am, at least, capable of looking past physical attributes.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

lol I didn't marry my type either. I have a thing for shorter, athletic blondes with a feisty intellectual streak... but who know how to let their hair down and get outrageous with me without feeling too self-conscious. Hence one of my early dating "tests"... karaoke. 

My ex was the total opposite on all counts. lol wtf


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Some really do... but I don't think most are that naïve. For the most part my experience is that they're just as happy to get laid if you're a nice enough guy, also interested in talking and spending time with them.
> 
> There's no guilt in discovering someone just isn't for you, and neither I, nor most women I think, are going to totally hold out till we're certain we have found "the one". I think its more about just having a fair shake. Getting to know someone... and even for many women, not feeling lonely. Breakups are always disappointing, but I don't think most women were hearing wedding bells.... so sayeth my intuition. Maybe the ladies can answer to that one.


I agree.

Most women like to have sex just as much as men do, but we try to portray a wholesome and innocent persona. Afterall, no one respects a skank. 

The mind fvck starts when the man tells the woman things he *thinks* she wants to hear, to get in her pants (i.e. "I love you", "I want to spend the rest of my life with you", etc.). THAT is when women get the impression you might wanna actually spend the rest of your life with them.


----------



## Jellybeans

aston said:


> Honest conversation and good company creates a sense of ease that *makes even gazing into the other persons eyes part of foreplay*


That stuff is THE BEST.


----------



## aston

HappyKaty said:


> I agree.
> 
> Most women like to have sex just as much as men do, but we try to portray a wholesome and innocent persona. Afterall, no one respects a skank.
> 
> The mind fvck starts when the man tells the woman things he *thinks* she wants to hear, to get in her pants (i.e. "I love you", "I want to spend the rest of my life with you", etc.). THAT is when women get the impression you might wanna actually spend the rest of your life with them.


and when the guy doesn't say those things they start asking him to define their relationship and why he hasn't expressed how he feels yet (in essence asking him to say those things). Do they want him telling them ..."Oh I just like having sex with you and want nothing more"? we all know how women react to a statement like that...


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> and when the guy doesn't say those things they start asking him to define their relationship and why he hasn't expressed how he feels yet (in essence asking him to say those things). Do they want him telling them ..."Oh I just like having sex with you and want nothing more"? we all know how women react to a statement like that...


Actually, yes...that would be PERFECT! 

Why lie?


----------



## aston

HappyKaty said:


> Actually, yes...that would be PERFECT!
> 
> Why lie?


Lets be honest here...either way it's not a win-win since the truth is that women and men view sex (and FWB's) differently...regardless of what the feminazis will say.

Men can handle the casual relationships without disrupting the status quo, women simply can't. By the 4th or 5th hookup women are already wanting more, which usually is the genesis of the questions to define "things" etc. If I lie to you, you keep it going, if I tell you the truth then I'm a jerk and you're feeling used.

How about not over analyzing it and enjoy instead of trying to fix whats not broken. In other words, don't stir the pot if you don't want to taste the soup . IMHO.


----------



## arbitrator

*I know that I absolutely abhor having sex with someone and not be able to honestly and forthrightly express to them exactly how I feel about them.

Maybe it's just me, but I am inherently not the "Wham, Bam, Thank you, Ma'am"  type of guy!*


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I've always thought this frustrating dynamic was the result of men and women simply approaching the whole thing differently.

A lot of men don't need to have emotional hooks to have sex. Sex for its own sake is cool. The only requirements are attraction and a little trust.

A lot of women need those emotional hooks to have guiltless sex. Sex for its own sake is either unfulfilling or shameful. There are seemingly a lot of requirements.

Most people seem to agree that women want sex as much as men do, so why the additional requirements? One argument that gets repeated is the evolutionary basis - finding a provider and safety for their children and the immense commitment/vulnerability that is having a child. I think that might be the driver for the emotional stuff. But I also think that social mores play a large role and that many women don't go for the unattached sex because of the social stigma that still exists.

Examining the causes of the male behavior I find much less complex. We want sex. We go get sex. Commitment is actually something we're more reluctant to give out. The evolutionary emotional driver might be to "seed" as many women as possible before committing to supporting one. The social driver might be that men who get a lot of women are generally viewed in a positive light... as having "it"... whatever it is.

The competing interests of men and women would seem to make finding a mate somewhat of a game of chess.


----------



## aston

arbitrator said:


> *I know that I absolutely abhor having sex with someone and not be able to honestly and forthrightly express to them exactly how I feel about them.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I am inherently not the "Wham, Bam, Thank you, Ma'am"  type of guy!*


How about WHam Bam! Come back around? lol


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> Actually, yes...that would be PERFECT!
> 
> Why lie?


Ha! Why do they lie? Because they can't get the sex they want otherwise.

You don't want sex without commitment, and they want sex but don't want to commit.

Each gender pursuing its objective.


----------



## hambone

Jellybeans said:


> That stuff is THE BEST.


When I was courting my wife. One Valentines day... I met her for lunch at Arby's. She was working in a post office.

She goes back to work. She had flowers that I sent her... She had flowers that her ex sent her... And, some old man, "not to be outdone" left after seeing her other flowers and brought flowers back to her.

It was a busy day. There was a long line. It's the south. People start talking about all her pretty flowers. Some old lady asked, "I wonder which one if from her true love?" and a lady at the back of the line says, "It's the guy she was making goo goo eyes with at Arby's at lunch!"

When we were sitting at Arby's.. eating. I was looking into her eyes... The whole world disappeared. I had no clue what was happening outside our little bubble. Yeah... I was feeling the love...

I love my wife.... If it didn't happen at first sight!! It was shortly after that.


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I've always thought this frustrating dynamic was the result of men and women simply approaching the whole thing differently.
> 
> A lot of men don't need to have emotional hooks to have sex. Sex for its own sake is cool. The only requirements are attraction and a little trust.
> 
> A lot of women need those emotional hooks to have guiltless sex. Sex for its own sake is either unfulfilling or shameful. There are seemingly a lot of requirements.
> 
> Most people seem to agree that women want sex as much as men do, so why the additional requirements? One argument that gets repeated is the evolutionary basis - finding a provider and safety for their children and the immense commitment/vulnerability that is having a child. I think that might be the driver for the emotional stuff. But I also think that social mores play a large role and that many women don't go for the unattached sex because of the social stigma that still exists.
> 
> Examining the causes of the male behavior I find much less complex. We want sex. We go get sex. Commitment is actually something we're more reluctant to give out. The evolutionary emotional driver might be to "seed" as many women as possible before committing to supporting one. The social driver might be that men who get a lot of women are generally viewed in a positive light... as having "it"... whatever it is.
> 
> The competing interests of men and women would seem to make finding a mate somewhat of a game of chess.


If men could procreate, our DNA would be wired like women and we would want it the same way. We are built to hunt, gather, solve problems (while creating even more problems ), take risks etc. Women nurture and do all that comes with it. This isn't a social issue, it's simply biological even though we constantly try to rewire our genetic code using social arguments. One thing is for sure, no one fought and won against nature.


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> How about WHam Bam! Come back around? lol


That works better than cringing as you utter the words "I love you".


----------



## arbitrator

aston said:


> How about WHam Bam! Come back around? lol


*More so in my college days, Aston! Where there were other things that were considerably more stiff than breezes!*


----------



## EnjoliWoman

aston said:


> Lets be honest here...either way it's not a win-win since the truth is that women and men view sex (and FWB's) differently...regardless of what the feminazis will say.
> 
> Men can handle the casual relationships without disrupting the status quo, women simply can't. By the 4th or 5th hookup women are already wanting more, which usually is the genesis of the questions to define "things" etc. If I lie to you, you keep it going, if I tell you the truth then I'm a jerk and you're feeling used.
> 
> How about not over analyzing it and enjoy instead of trying to fix whats not broken. In other words, don't stir the pot if you don't want to taste the soup . IMHO.


Hm well, generally speaking by the time there is a hookup I want to know the guy isn't dating other people. I realize there is no permanence but sort of a 'lets see where this goes' stage. For me, when it starts approaching a year, I want to know how he feels about me. It has to be organic, though - I won't say it first or set deadlines, etc. If it becomes obvious that he isn't in love, I will assume he LMBISNILWM (to use a TAM reference) and I'll move on.

But my life is busy and complicated so my time frame might be very different than someone who sees the guy several times a week. I can integrate someone but to rearrange my life does require a certain amount of mutual caring. Meet me at the gym, come over for dinner, call some evenings but I like a little breathing room.


----------



## aston

arbitrator said:


> *More so in my college days, Aston! Where there were other things that were considerably more stiff than breezes!*


ahh the days of yore! ye' olde soundrel bore nil on the responsible save' for a damsel mate?


----------



## arbitrator

hambone said:


> When I was courting my wife. One Valentines day... *I met her for lunch at Arby's.*


*Hate to contradict you, Ham, but I don't think that I even knew you way back then!

But it is good to know that we do frequent the same restaurant!

A great story, Sir!*


----------



## arbitrator

aston said:


> ahh the days of yore! ye' olde soundrel bore nil on the responsible save' for a damsel mate?


*Now you don't really want to hear the Texas/Louisiana lingo-equivalent to that line of yours, do you?*


----------



## aston

arbitrator said:


> *Now you don't really want to hear the Texas/Louisiana lingo-equivalent to that line of yours, do you?*


Will I need a stetson and boots with spurs?


----------



## 06Daddio08

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



EnjoliWoman said:


> I can integrate someone but to rearrange my life does require a certain amount of mutual caring. Meet me at the gym, come over for dinner, call some evenings but I like a little breathing room.


This put a smile on my face, knowing there are woman like this out there.


----------



## COGypsy

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Ha! Why do they lie? Because they can't get the sex they want otherwise.
> 
> You don't want sex without commitment, and they want sex but don't want to commit.
> 
> Each gender pursuing its objective.


Clearly I'm a genetic mutant. Ladies--take my sex advice with a grain of salt! :rofl:


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> I can integrate someone but to rearrange my life does require a certain amount of mutual caring. Meet me at the gym, come over for dinner, call some evenings but I like a little breathing room.


I think most men will be ok with this but this is what separates a girl from a woman. Only a woman will say this. to most girls this means FWB and they won't even consider the true meaning of such statement. I guess thats why I prefer women who have been throug ha ringer or two since it seems thats what it takes for eyes to open .


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> I think most men will be ok with this but this is what separates a girl from a woman. Only a woman will say this. to most girls this means FWB and they won't even consider the true meaning of such statement. I guess thats why I prefer women who have been throug ha ringer or two since it seems thats what it takes for eyes to open .


I agree. Most women, coming off a divorce, will be more apt to enjoy their new freedom, alongside a new partner. 

With that being said, men can be smothering, too. Especially when they assume they have competition.


----------



## hambone

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Awesome for you ... but didn't she just say she was in love with somebody else? Strange way to love somebody ... keep a f buddy on the side.


Well, he was married!

And, wasn't giving her time of day.


----------



## arbitrator

aston said:


> Will I need a stetson and boots with spurs?


*And that's just to keep from stepping into a huge steaming pile of bull crap!*


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

COGypsy said:


> Clearly I'm a genetic mutant. Ladies--take my sex advice with a grain of salt! :rofl:


Nah, hence the reason I qualify everything I say with many or most.

I think its safe to say that most men don't have commitment requirements to have sex. They're just happy to get laid. For those who can't get commitment free sex, their only options are to not have sex or to lie. Guess which is easier? ;P

I'm pretty cynical though. So much so that when I hear from women about men speaking about commitment and the lovey dovey like women are prone to... I tend to smell a rat. Someone running beta game... especially if its a good looking guy with a decent income.

If I were a woman, I'd be wary of the guy who seemingly is saying everything I want to hear.


----------



## Jellybeans

hambone said:


> When we were sitting at Arby's.. eating. I was looking into her eyes... The whole world disappeared. I had no clue what was happening outside our little bubble. Yeah... I was feeling the love...
> 
> I love my wife.... If it didn't happen at first sight!! It was shortly after that.


:smthumbup:



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> So much so that when I hear from women about men speaking about commitment and the lovey dovey like women are prone to... I tend to smell a rat.
> 
> If I were a woman, I'd be wary of the guy who seemingly is saying everything I want to hear.


:iagree:


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

EnjoliWoman said:


> aston said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lets be honest here...either way it's not a win-win since the truth is that women and men view sex (and FWB's) differently...regardless of what the feminazis will say.
> 
> Men can handle the casual relationships without disrupting the status quo, women simply can't. By the 4th or 5th hookup women are already wanting more, which usually is the genesis of the questions to define "things" etc. If I lie to you, you keep it going, if I tell you the truth then I'm a jerk and you're feeling used.
> 
> How about not over analyzing it and enjoy instead of trying to fix whats not broken. In other words, don't stir the pot if you don't want to taste the soup . IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> Hm well, generally speaking by the time there is a hookup I want to know the guy isn't dating other people. I realize there is no permanence but sort of a 'lets see where this goes' stage. For me, when it starts approaching a year, I want to know how he feels about me. It has to be organic, though - I won't say it first or set deadlines, etc. If it becomes obvious that he isn't in love, I will assume he LMBISNILWM (to use a TAM reference) and I'll move on.
> 
> But my life is busy and complicated so my time frame might be very different than someone who sees the guy several times a week. I can integrate someone but to rearrange my life does require a certain amount of mutual caring. Meet me at the gym, come over for dinner, call some evenings but I like a little breathing room.
Click to expand...

Actually I feel the same way.

If I reenter the dating scene that is one aspect I'm not looking forward to. The games, etc. I don't want to have to worry that the woman who tells me she loves me is also getting pounded by HamBone in a fwb situation. The breakups, the rejections, etc. It will probably take me awhile to be at a place I can deal with that. I haven't dated in 23 years, after all and will not be used to it.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## EnjoliWoman

I don't think you can tell someone you love them (honestly) and be having sex with someone else???? I wouldn't even want a FWB if I'm in love with someone else. Admittedly, I can't do FWB. I can't kiss a friend and can't imagine sex without kissing.

Oddly, I find men to be VERY clingy. I don't know if it's a territorial thing or what. Maybe it's because they don't have their kids during the week or the kids are grown or wanting to squeeze in enough dates to get through the imaginary "3 date rule" but when I have dated it seems they want to get together a LOT. 

If a guy wants to see me that much, he's going to have to be incorporated into my routine by doing stuff with me I'm already doing. The 'getting to know you' stage means one date every other weekend and maybe an occasional lunch so a guy has to be really interested in me to develop anything.


----------



## HappyKaty

EnjoliWoman said:


> If a guy wants to see me that much, he's going to have to be incorporated into my routine by doing stuff with me I'm already doing. The 'getting to know you' stage means one date every other weekend and maybe an occasional lunch so a guy has to be really interested in me to develop anything.


I absolutely agree.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

EnjoliWoman said:


> I don't think you can tell someone you love them (honestly) and be having sex with someone else????


Most people who have affairs would disagree. In most cases there is still a sense of love for BS. A compartmentalization occurs... and the sex is just sex.



EnjoliWoman said:


> I wouldn't even want a FWB if I'm in love with someone else. Admittedly, I can't do FWB. I can't kiss a friend and can't imagine sex without kissing.


If you're happily in love I'd agree. You can love someone, and yet be totally unhappy with them. I can see someone who is happy with their spouse in every way except sexually desiring a the relatively safe sexual outlet of having a fwb.



EnjoliWoman said:


> Oddly, I find men to be VERY clingy. I don't know if it's a territorial thing or what. Maybe it's because they don't have their kids during the week or the kids are grown or wanting to squeeze in enough dates to get through the imaginary "3 date rule" but when I have dated it seems they want to get together a LOT.


I've heard that from other women too. I don't have an explanation. Rapid contact = rapid sex? Jealousy? - they want to make sure nobody else gets in the door? I dunno.

On the other hand, every other week... I'd probably try to see someone more than that and I'm not remotely clingy.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

EnjoliWoman said:


> I don't think you can tell someone you love them (honestly) and be having sex with someone else???? I wouldn't even want a FWB if I'm in love with someone else. Admittedly, I can't do FWB. I can't kiss a friend and can't imagine sex without kissing.
> 
> Oddly, I find men to be VERY clingy. I don't know if it's a territorial thing or what. Maybe it's because they don't have their kids during the week or the kids are grown or wanting to squeeze in enough dates to get through the imaginary "3 date rule" but when I have dated it seems they want to get together a LOT.
> 
> If a guy wants to see me that much, he's going to have to be incorporated into my routine by doing stuff with me I'm already doing. The 'getting to know you' stage means one date every other weekend and maybe an occasional lunch so a guy has to be really interested in me to develop anything.


Ha! Well, my experience in dating prior to my wife was with women who went from make-out to hookup to wanting to move in with me all in the span of a nanosecond. Too much, too fast.

Yeah, your schedule is probably a little too slow for me. If I like and am interested in a woman then I want to get to know her and that means spending some time with her. Has nothing to do with the so-called "3-date" rule. That doesn't mean I want to spend every second with her or talk to her on the phone every day (texting nowadays?). I would be fine taking it slow and a date every two weeks would be fine for a start but it's really hard to get to know someone real well in those brief increments.

... and I was the one worried (based on past experiences) that I would be the one moving too slow


----------



## Ceegee

EnjoliWoman said:


> Oddly, I find men to be VERY clingy. I don't know if it's a territorial thing or what. Maybe it's because they don't have their kids during the week or the kids are grown or wanting to squeeze in enough dates to get through the imaginary "3 date rule" but when I have dated it seems they want to get together a LOT.


What is it about you that attracts clingy guys?


----------



## hambone

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Actually I feel the same way.
> 
> If I reenter the dating scene that is one aspect I'm not looking forward to. The games, etc. I don't want to have to worry that the woman who tells me she loves me is also getting pounded by HamBone in a fwb situation. The breakups, the rejections, etc. It will probably take me awhile to be at a place I can deal with that. I haven't dated in 23 years, after all and will not be used to it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


Well, your safe. The only reason we were FWB was because the object of her affection was married.

I've been happily married for 21 years now.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> If you're happily in love I'd agree. You can love someone, and yet be totally unhappy with them. I can see someone who is happy with their spouse in every way except sexually desiring a the relatively safe sexual outlet of having a fwb.


Well, if they aren't happy with me sexually then they can just move on to someone who they are happy with ... without me. I have plenty of friends.


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> Oddly, I find men to be VERY clingy. I don't know if it's a territorial thing or what. Maybe it's because they don't have their kids during the week or the kids are grown or wanting to squeeze in enough dates to get through the imaginary "3 date rule" but when I have dated it seems they want to get together a LOT.
> 
> If a guy wants to see me that much, he's going to have to be incorporated into my routine by doing stuff with me I'm already doing. The 'getting to know you' stage means one date every other weekend and maybe an occasional lunch so a guy has to be really interested in me to develop anything.


I have the same experience with women....CLINGY! The more time I spend wiht them the clingier (And crazier) they become. With or without kids. I had one who parked on my street for over 2 hours after we broke up...almost had to get a restraining order.
I just get tired of the "me me me me me" mentality that many women carry around.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

hambone said:


> Well, your safe. The only reason we were FWB was because the object of her affection was married.
> 
> I've been happily married for 21 years now.


lol ... that was pretty tongue in cheek. Your fwb was a real winner apparently.


----------



## aston

Ceegee said:


> What is it about you that attracts clingy guys?


Must be her smile :smthumbup:. I must admit I once was clingy but it was due to her boom boom!.......I got over it though...found another girl with an equally dangerous boom boom lol


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> Must be her smile :smthumbup:. I must admit I once was clingy but it was due to her boom boom!.......I got over it though...found another girl with an equally dangerous boom boom lol


That's it. There doesn't have to be a personality flaw to attract clingy counterparts. It could legitimately be that they just can't get enough.


----------



## Ceegee

HappyKaty said:


> That's it. There doesn't have to be a personality flaw to attract clingy counterparts. It could legitimately be that they just can't get enough.


It's possible.

I have some recent experience with clingy. 

I have also been the clingy one.

Clingy is a relative term.


----------



## hambone

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> lol ... that was pretty tongue in cheek. Your fwb was a real winner apparently.


It was a fairly small town. The object of her affection had a lot of admirers.

I think she loved him before he got married.

BUT, I never saw what she or anyone else saw in him. 

He was a detective on the police force and was eventually forced to resign when he became aware of a theft ring that some of his friends were involved in... and failed to turn them in... 

So, he fell from grace.


----------



## aston

hambone said:


> It was a fairly small town. The object of her affection had a lot of admirers.
> 
> I think she loved him before he got married.
> 
> BUT, I never saw what she or anyone else saw in him.
> 
> He was a detective on the police force and was eventually forced to resign when he became aware of a theft ring that some of his friends were involved in... and failed to turn them in...
> 
> So, he fell from grace.


Did his fall from grace have anything to do with her no longer in love with him?


----------



## arbitrator

hambone said:


> It was a fairly small town. The object of her affection had a lot of admirers.
> 
> I think she loved him before he got married.
> 
> BUT, I never saw what she or anyone else saw in him.
> 
> He was a detective on the police force and was eventually forced to resign when he became aware of a theft ring that some of his friends were involved in... and failed to turn them in...
> 
> So, he fell from grace.


*Ain't it absolutely amazing how a lot of people in some semblance of power or authority usually always end up getting their "check cashed" over some of their overt or covert misdeeds!*


----------



## hambone

aston said:


> Did his fall from grace have anything to do with her no longer in love with him?


No. He was a playa!

Got too big for his britches.


Everybody in town knew this guy.

I don't know what happened to him. They never did marry.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

arbitrator said:


> hambone said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a fairly small town. The object of her affection had a lot of admirers.
> 
> I think she loved him before he got married.
> 
> BUT, I never saw what she or anyone else saw in him.
> 
> He was a detective on the police force and was eventually forced to resign when he became aware of a theft ring that some of his friends were involved in... and failed to turn them in...
> 
> So, he fell from grace.
> 
> 
> 
> *Ain't it absolutely amazing how a lot of people in some semblance of power or authority usually always end up getting their "check cashed" over some of their overt or covert misdeeds!*
Click to expand...

I wonder in the midst of all this interesting conversation that is probably well suited for a party ... did OP ever get her question answered? 

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## hambone

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I wonder in the midst of all this interesting conversation that is probably well suited for a party ... did OP ever get her question answered?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


I don't think there is a single answer that fit's all.


----------



## HappyKaty

hambone said:


> I don't think there is a single answer that fit's all.


I didn't think there was. I was just looking for differing opinions. 

However, the additional stories/comments/suggestions will prove to be valuable in my plight to find my next ex-husband. 

 Kidding, of course.


----------



## hambone

HappyKaty said:


> I didn't think there was. I was just looking for differing opinions.
> 
> However, the additional stories/comments/suggestions will prove to be valuable in my plight to find my next ex-husband.
> 
> Kidding, of course.


IMO, the best choices are people who have been married before.

At least they know what they are getting into. They understand the consequences. 

And hopefully, they no better than to put up a false front.. portray themselves as something they are not just to get you to marry them.

Good luck. and remember. Don't settle!


----------



## hambone

After putting a little thought into it... I know people who didn't learn a darn thing from their first marrage and have been through several more.

My wive's ex is an example. He's had 3 more failed marriages.

And, my best friend at my 2nd marriage.. He's on his 4th marriage and it looks like it might stick.

I guess, I was thinking about my self when it comes to realizing what i did wrong and not making another mistake.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I've heard that from other women too. I don't have an explanation. Rapid contact = rapid sex? Jealousy? - they want to make sure nobody else gets in the door? I dunno.
> 
> On the other hand, every other week... I'd probably try to see someone more than that and I'm not remotely clingy.





JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ha! Well, my experience in dating prior to my wife was with women who went from make-out to hookup to wanting to move in with me all in the span of a nanosecond. Too much, too fast.
> 
> Yeah, your schedule is probably a little too slow for me. If I like and am interested in a woman then I want to get to know her and that means spending some time with her. Has nothing to do with the so-called "3-date" rule. That doesn't mean I want to spend every second with her or talk to her on the phone every day (texting nowadays?). I would be fine taking it slow and a date every two weeks would be fine for a start but it's really hard to get to know someone real well in those brief increments.





Ceegee said:


> What is it about you that attracts clingy guys?


These are all sort of related so I'll answer and see what you guys think.

I have full custody of my daughter who is 14. She is with her Dad every other weekend from after school on Friday through Sunday at 6pm.

That means I only have that time to date. I am not going to leave her alone or hire a sitter (God she would hate that! LOL) to date at first. I just don't think it's right to put her on the back burner while I go out dating. I also think seeing someone two nights in a row initially is a bit much unless we meet Friday after work for a drink, hit it off and he asks to see me again that weekend.

Now, once I have gone out a few times - and that can be lunch (if convenient) or weekends I'm available, then I don't mind leaving my daughter every once and a while as I get to know them better. At that point I either don't feel it and tell them so OR I'm willing to invest a little more time because I have a better feeling about the guy and I'll leave her at home with a friend or something. 

A few more months of this and maybe I'm willing to have him over for dinner or a cookout with friends but I'll try to keep it casual and not a tense "introduce the daughter" situation. Once she meets the guy then come over 2x a week for dinner; meet me at the gym a couple evenings, let's go out every weekend (but I do still need daughter time). BUT there will be no sex or overnights with my daughter there so even that is alternating weekends until I feel things are REALLY serious. 

Eventually I'm open to the idea of living together but I do have a daughter and I know I'm setting an example. If I live with someone it has to be someone that I'm prepared to marry whether or not we get the paper - living together requires the exact same level of commitment for me.

So far in 10 years of dating I have never gotten to the point where they can stay the night while my daughter is there. I did have the guy I dated the longest stay one night as it got very late and he lived 45 minutes away and I didn't want him falling asleep at the wheel. Of course my daughter came in the room because she had a bad dream (at age 7/8). We were wearing nightclothes and SLEEPING but it was awkward and she never let me forget it. 

What I find is that men in my age range of 40-50 only have their kids every other weekend OR they are already grown/in college/etc. So they have more time, simply. They want to go to dinner on a weeknight and/or call every night; they want to date every weekend, multiple days (i.e. both Friday and Saturday and hang out during the day) and I'm sure that they would want sex more than every other weekend - and so would I! - but that will just take some time to get to that point. So I'm not sure if 'clingy' is the right word or it's just that I tend to be in a different place or have different obligations.

I don't have an hour to chat every night. However once they've met my daughter, I'd love to cook while the guy sits at the bar in the kitchen and chats with me in order to spend more time together. But I can't cook with a phone to my ear. I can't put everything on hold for a guy and stop going to the gym and I can't put a plate in front of my kiddo while I talk on the phone for an hour and ignore her. I just have to get past the first "get to know you" stage before I can really INTEGRATE a person into my life but I can't push everything aside for him. That's not healthy. 

I had my daughter when I was 30, almost 31. A LOT of people start their families before then so most men my age (45) have kids who are driving and/or already in college - some of them are GRANDPARENTS. So our family demands are hugely different.


----------



## hambone

EnjoliWoman said:


> BUT there will be no sex or overnights with my daughter there so even that is alternating weekends until I feel things are REALLY serious.
> 
> Eventually I'm open to the idea of living together but I do have a daughter and I know I'm setting an example. If I live with someone it has to be someone that I'm prepared to marry whether or not we get the paper - living together requires the exact same level of commitment for me.
> 
> So far in 10 years of dating I have never gotten to the point where they can stay the night while my daughter is there. I did have the guy I dated the longest stay one night as it got very late and he lived 45 minutes away and I didn't want him falling asleep at the wheel. Of course my daughter came in the room because she had a bad dream (at age 7/8). We were wearing nightclothes and SLEEPING but it was awkward and she never let me forget it.


All the time I was dating my wife... she never, not once, allowed me to stay over. Because, she had a daughter.

In fact, her daughter used to wedge herself in between me and her mom... and sit there until I left. "NO KISSING" was her daughter's rule. 

So, what to do? Well, my wife would give me a hug and "send me home". I'd walk out the front door and around to the back door. She would put her daughter in bed... and then come let me in the back door.

My wife never took me to her bedroom. We just sat in the den and made goo goo eyes at each other.

I had her so high up on a pedestal that I wasn't going to do anything that might mess me up..

Since then... we've discussed this and she was wondering what was taking me so long!!!

If only I had known!


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

hambone said:


> All the time I was dating my wife... she never, not once, allowed me to stay over. Because, she had a daughter.
> 
> In fact, her daughter used to wedge herself in between me and her mom... and sit there until I left. "NO KISSING" was her daughter's rule.
> 
> So, what to do? Well, my wife would give me a hug and "send me home". I'd walk out the front door and around to the back door. She would put her daughter in bed... and then come let me in the back door.
> 
> My wife never took me to her bedroom. We just sat in the den and made goo goo eyes at each other.
> 
> I had her so high up on a pedestal that I wasn't going to do anything that might mess me up..
> 
> Since then... we've discussed this and she was wondering what was taking me so long!!!
> 
> If only I had known!


It worked out exactly the way it should have.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

EnjoliWoman said:


> These are all sort of related so I'll answer and see what you guys think.
> 
> I have full custody of my daughter who is 14. She is with her Dad every other weekend from after school on Friday through Sunday at 6pm.
> 
> That means I only have that time to date. I am not going to leave her alone or hire a sitter (God she would hate that! LOL) to date at first. I just don't think it's right to put her on the back burner while I go out dating. I also think seeing someone two nights in a row initially is a bit much unless we meet Friday after work for a drink, hit it off and he asks to see me again that weekend.
> 
> Now, once I have gone out a few times - and that can be lunch (if convenient) or weekends I'm available, then I don't mind leaving my daughter every once and a while as I get to know them better. At that point I either don't feel it and tell them so OR I'm willing to invest a little more time because I have a better feeling about the guy and I'll leave her at home with a friend or something.
> 
> A few more months of this and maybe I'm willing to have him over for dinner or a cookout with friends but I'll try to keep it casual and not a tense "introduce the daughter" situation. Once she meets the guy then come over 2x a week for dinner; meet me at the gym a couple evenings, let's go out every weekend (but I do still need daughter time). BUT there will be no sex or overnights with my daughter there so even that is alternating weekends until I feel things are REALLY serious.
> 
> Eventually I'm open to the idea of living together but I do have a daughter and I know I'm setting an example. If I live with someone it has to be someone that I'm prepared to marry whether or not we get the paper - living together requires the exact same level of commitment for me.
> 
> So far in 10 years of dating I have never gotten to the point where they can stay the night while my daughter is there. I did have the guy I dated the longest stay one night as it got very late and he lived 45 minutes away and I didn't want him falling asleep at the wheel. Of course my daughter came in the room because she had a bad dream (at age 7/8). We were wearing nightclothes and SLEEPING but it was awkward and she never let me forget it.
> 
> What I find is that men in my age range of 40-50 only have their kids every other weekend OR they are already grown/in college/etc. So they have more time, simply. They want to go to dinner on a weeknight and/or call every night; they want to date every weekend, multiple days (i.e. both Friday and Saturday and hang out during the day) and I'm sure that they would want sex more than every other weekend - and so would I! - but that will just take some time to get to that point. So I'm not sure if 'clingy' is the right word or it's just that I tend to be in a different place or have different obligations.
> 
> I don't have an hour to chat every night. However once they've met my daughter, I'd love to cook while the guy sits at the bar in the kitchen and chats with me in order to spend more time together. But I can't cook with a phone to my ear. I can't put everything on hold for a guy and stop going to the gym and I can't put a plate in front of my kiddo while I talk on the phone for an hour and ignore her. I just have to get past the first "get to know you" stage before I can really INTEGRATE a person into my life but I can't push everything aside for him. That's not healthy.
> 
> *I had my daughter when I was 30, almost 31. A LOT of people start their families before then so most men my age (45) have kids who are driving and/or already in college - some of them are GRANDPARENTS. So our family demands are hugely different.*


I'm 46 ... my oldest daughter turns 12 today. My youngest turned 9 about a week and a half ago. I have a number of friends from high school that I know are grandparents and there are probably many more I don't know about. 

Sounds like we are in the same boat. I am sure that will be a limiting factor in dating. Not sure I can accept having my kids only every other weekend though.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

I had put my daughter to bed that night when we watched a movie and it got late and he was falling asleep during the movie. 

At 14 I probably couldn't get away with sneaking them back into the house! I can just see it now - a 40-something man leaving by the front door and then sneaks back in my front bedroom window after I turn off the lights and say goodnight to kiddo.  haha


----------



## EnjoliWoman

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I'm 46 ... my oldest daughter turns 12 today. My youngest turned 9 about a week and a half ago. I have a number of friends from high school that I know are grandparents and there are probably many more I don't know about.
> 
> Sounds like we are in the same boat. I am sure that will be a limiting factor in dating. Not sure I can accept having my kids only every other weekend though.


Yes we are in the same boat. I'm half-resigned (only half) to not really dating until she's off to college.

I wanted to start a single-parent meet-up group but don't have the time to manage one. (Oh the irony)

I figure there are lots of alternating weekend parents out there.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

I've been dating my gf for 9-10 months. Met the kids at the 6 month mark. I would never, ever stay the night over there with them there. Period. Unless, we were married. End of story.


----------



## HappyKaty

I have so much respect for you guys that don't flaunt your partners in front of your children. My roommate has different men in and out the house, constantly, leaving her sweet two year old so confused.


----------



## hambone

EnjoliWoman said:


> I had put my daughter to bed that night when we watched a movie and it got late and he was falling asleep during the movie.
> 
> At 14 I probably couldn't get away with sneaking them back into the house! I can just see it now - a 40-something man leaving by the front door and then sneaks back in my front bedroom window after I turn off the lights and say goodnight to kiddo.  haha


LOL..... I never crawled in any windows! LOL...

But that image of a 40ish guy crawling in the window is funny!


----------



## aston

hambone said:


> LOL..... I never crawled in any windows! LOL...
> 
> But that image of a 40ish guy crawling in the window is funny!


How would you explain that one to the fire department (and your daughter) should he get stuck?


----------



## arbitrator

*With my recent wealthy XW, where she used to live a few counties removed toward Houston, she owns a country 'cottage' with some 4500-4800 square feet to it, sitting on 2-1/2 acres situated about a mile up into the woods on a private, winding driveway; with a huge assed pool and rock waterfall, and a very roomy servants/guest quarters built up over the detached garage.

When I first met XW, her three kids were in HS and JH. XW and I started having sexual relations about 6 weeks in to our dating relationship. So about 6 months into dating her, she was rather insistent that I start staying overnight in the guest quarters, which I did on most weekends and some weeknights, as it was roughly 70 miles removed from my home and some 35 miles from my office.

She would often, in the middle of the night, crash my assigned domicile for companionship and then leave to go back to her bed in the big house just prior to her kids getting up for the morning. I never really shared her bed unless the kids were away for whatever reason. Whenever my two boys visited there, the three of us always occupied those very same guest quarters.

But hindsight being 20/20, I don't think that I'd ever go that route again!*


----------



## aston

arbitrator said:


> *With my recent wealthy XW, where she used to live a few counties removed toward Houston, she owns a country 'cottage' with some 4500-4800 square feet to it, sitting on 2-1/2 acres situated about a mile up into the woods on a private, winding driveway; with a huge assed pool and rock waterfall, and a very roomy servants/guest quarters built up over the detached garage.
> 
> When I first met her, her kids were in HS and JH. About 6 months into dating her, she insisted that I start staying overnight in the guest quarters, which I did on most weekends and some weeknights, as it was roughly 70 miles removed from my home and some 35 miles from my office.
> 
> She would often in the middle of the night crash my assigned domicile for companionship and then leaving to go back to her bed prior to the kids getting up for the morning. I never really shared her bed unless the kids were away for whatever reason.
> 
> Hindsight being 20/20, I don't think that I'd ever go that route again!*



Now that my friend is 70 miles away from the closest arbitrator


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## hambone

Can you explain why you don't think you'd take that route again?


----------



## arbitrator

hambone said:


> Can you explain why you don't think you'd take that route again?


*Ham, a few times her equally-wealthy, divorced, alcoholic, corporate VP, first husband would show up totally unannounced often to see if the kids would go back to his estate with him, whether it was his weekend or not. XW often wouldn't let them go with him, more especially if he had been drinking. He was a mild-mannered guy who just loved to hit the sauce! 

Oftentimes he showed up while my vehicle was parked there in the circular driveway, but I never really felt, that in his physical state, that my presence there even registered with him. I just stayed up in the guest quarters and just observed all of the goings-on from a strategic window up there.

I never ever had a confrontation with him, nor was I ever introduced to him. And just months before XW's and my wedding, he was found dead in his home from "mysterious" causes, although the coroner finally ruled that it was "suicide through alcohol consumption," as his blood alcohol reading was literally through the roof.

I personally did not think that it was proper for me to be there while her kids were there, as it would have been just as easy for me to have gone back to my place on the South side of town. But I seemed to listen much more to her than I did my own conscience and internal values.

I don't ever want to marry into wealth again!

*


----------



## aston

arbitrator said:


> *Ham, a few times her equally-wealthy, divorced, alcoholic, corporate VP, first husband would show up totally unannounced often to see if the kids would go back to his estate with him, whether it was his weekend or not. XW often wouldn't let them go with him, more especially if he had been drinking. He was a mild-mannered guy who just loved to hit the sauce!
> 
> I never ever had a confrontation with him, nor was I ever introduced to him. Just months before our wedding, he was found dead in his home from "mysterious" causes, although the coroner ruled that it was "suicide through alcohol consumption."
> 
> I personally did not think that it was proper for me to be there while her kids were there, as it would have been just as easy for me to have gone back to my place on the South side of town. But I seemed to listen much more to her than I did my own conscience and internal values.
> 
> I don't ever want to marry into wealth again!
> 
> *


It's overrated...better when both parties come from wealth....quid pro quo.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

I don't know exactly "how many dates" because I have yet to go on a "date" with anyone in the 3 years since my separation and divorce. My one sexual encounter was with an old friend who I had a FWB with 25 years ago before I started dating my ex husband. It was one time, served it's purpose and I ended it when it became apparent that it would be more about "benefits" then "friends." That's not how I roll. 

I had a ONS once in my life and it was horrible. Never again. It's not me. I take a long time to even want to _date_ anyone, never mind sleep with them. I need to be attracted to them, become friends and then I'll date them. If they push sex on me it's over before it even starts.

It's not about morality, it's just about my comfort zone. I don't warm up to people easily. People assume from my outgoing, chatty personality that they can become "familiar" with me right away and nothing could be further from the truth. If someone pushes themselves on me too soon/too fast then I turn and run away fast.

I have many acquaintances but very few friends. Having a physical relationship with someone means that I'm opening myself up to them on many levels, both emotional and physical. There needs to be a trust and comfort level there for me to even consider it. 

24 years of being in a bad marriage with a husband who rejected me sexually didn't help either. Add this to the fact that I do not in any way, shape or form want a committed relationship and it doesn't look likely that I will be having sex with anyone anytime soon. 

I'd say though that it would take at least a month or two of knowing and caring for someone for me to have sex with them. When I first got divorced, I enjoyed being a bit of a flirt and when I kissed men, they would (naturally) want to take it further so I would pull back and avoid any further contact. Now I don't even flirt anymore so as not to lead someone on or get into an unpleasant situation. I made the mistake of kissing one guy in my Meetup group a few times. He would text me constantly to come over to his house or constantly "offer" to walk me out to my car after an event to the point where I started to purposely avoid being anywhere near him. I hate being in these situations so now I won't do anything to give anyone the wrong idea about where I stand or how I feel. 

There's obviously something in me that just doesn't want to get involved at all. I have yet to meet anyone who I am the slightest bit interested in. I think it's definitely within me. I had a horrible marriage but in all that time I never met anyone I had the urge to have an affair with. Now that I'm single it's the same situation. I get out and socialize all the time. I see my girlfriends go out, meet and date people but men seem to be "put off" by me. It's not my appearance but I think it's definitely the attitude. I wouldn't mind meeting someone to go out and have fun with but it doesn't happen. 

It's a good thing I'm fairly content with how my life is. All my friends are out there doing online dating, speed dating and wringing their hands about why they can't find "Mr or Ms. Right" and I could care less. I like that a lot. It's liberating and reassuring. I've finally gotten to a place I longed for and prayed to be all my life.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> I have so much respect for you guys that don't flaunt your partners in front of your children. My roommate has different men in and out the house, constantly, leaving her sweet two year old so confused.


I never understood that. It is hard enough for a child to go through a divorce or live with a single parent and then to constantly introduce new people in their lives ... just wrong.

One promise I made to myself is that I will take my time to make sure that my children are prepared for that possibility. They will need some time to adjust and accept the idea that mommy and daddy will no longer be together. They also need to understand that any person that I might date in the future is not a replacement for their mom; nobody will replace her. In addition, I want to spend some time making sure that the person I choose to introduce into their lives is someone I am comfortable having around my children. Anybody I might be interested in a LTR would have to accept that she will have to share me with my children and that my children are a priority for me. She will have to want to be there and it will have to be someone who can be a positive influence for them. It will likely be a long time before that introduction happens.

I spent a lot of time thinking about that aspect of dating. I think people who don't consider that and aren't very careful about how to approach that with their children are thinking only about themselves.


----------



## aston

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I never understood that. It is hard enough for a child to go through a divorce or live with a single parent and then to constantly introduce new people in their lives ... just wrong.
> 
> I spent a lot of time thinking about that aspect of dating. I think people who don't consider that and aren't very careful about how to approach that with their children are thinking only about themselves.


Haven been through my parents divorce at a very young age (around 8) and through my moms other marriages I can say this is a debatable issue. 

I will never have a FWB around my kids but if it's someone I'm dating over a long period of time (6 months or more) then I have no problem wiht my kids seeing or meeting the person. We often underestimate our childrens intelligence but they are not idiots. They can put 2/2 together. Out of respect for the kids the least one can do IMO is introduce them as daddy / mommy's new friend. No adult should be sneaking their bf/gf in and out the backdoor so the kids won't notice comings and goings. Though timing here is key if you can do it around custody.

Till date I have only introduced one partner to the kids and it was after 6 months (almost 2 yrs ago). the rest can stay in the shadows lol.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

EnjoliWoman said:


> What I find is that men in my age range of 40-50 only have their kids every other weekend OR they are already grown/in college/etc. So they have more time, simply. They want to go to dinner on a weeknight and/or call every night; they want to date every weekend, multiple days (i.e. both Friday and Saturday and hang out during the day) and I'm sure that they would want sex more than every other weekend - and so would I! - but that will just take some time to get to that point. So I'm not sure if 'clingy' is the right word or it's just that I tend to be in a different place or have different obligations.
> 
> I don't have an hour to chat every night. However once they've met my daughter, I'd love to cook while the guy sits at the bar in the kitchen and chats with me in order to spend more time together. But I can't cook with a phone to my ear. I can't put everything on hold for a guy and stop going to the gym and I can't put a plate in front of my kiddo while I talk on the phone for an hour and ignore her. I just have to get past the first "get to know you" stage before I can really INTEGRATE a person into my life but I can't push everything aside for him. That's not healthy.


My 19 yr old daughter is at college and my 16 yr old son pretty much lives with his father so I have time and an apartment all to myself and STILL would not want to spend this much time with someone else! I don't like chatting on the phone, I don't want to talk to anyone every day for an hour either by talking or texting. I have better things to do with my time. 

I enjoy my "alone time" and like doing things with my friends, my kids or by myself. I need and like my own space and anyone dating me would have to realize and respect that I would need time away from them. Nothing personal, but that's how I roll. 

I could see going out once a week, but definitely not during weeknights when I get home from work. I'm beat and not in a very good mood when I get home from work. I only work 3 days a week but when I do it's 12-14 hours nonstop and stressed out. The last thing I want or need is to see someone else when I walk in the door after work. It's all I can do to jump in the shower, eat and collapse on the couch. 

And then there's the kids: I do NOT want anyone I date to get involved with my kids. They are older, have their own lives and sure as heck don't want to see or be with anyone I might date. I have my own relationship with my kids that I intend to keep separate. Plus I have no intention of getting involved with anyone ELSE'S kids. I've raised my family, done that entire bit of spending time with in-laws, etc and don't wish to repeat that all. That part of my life is OVER.

I don't want to do it again and anyone who is looking for me to become a mother figure to their kids or socialize with their family will be sorely disappointed. You want to spend time with your family? Hey, that's cool but do it on your own time. I want my time with someone to be our time, as independent adults, either alone or with friends. Family need not apply. 

I'm at the point in my life where I'm content and enjoy my life as it is now. I wouldn't mind someone to augment it but not be the focal point. I don't want to be that for someone else either. I can be the icing on the cake but I do not want to be THE cake! Too much pressure and potential for problems.


----------



## aston

I noticed no one here has talked about how some of us TRULY like our "space" and our domain. After being with someone almost a decade and vidorving, the last 3 years of living alone has taught me that I truly honestly enjoy living on my own and not at anyones beck and call or shacking up wiht anyone.

My belief is that relationships thrive in small doses. The minute one person (usually the woman...just saying) wants more...and more then those lines are blurred. What used to be cute now becomes annoying, what used to be funny now gets old, people stop putting in the effort and 30 pounds later they wonder why you are no longer as chivalrous (among other things) as you used to be.

Maybe it's jsut me but I like space in relationships. I think it keeps people in check. Talking on the phone for hours on end however is not something I subscribe to. I'd rather you just meet me somewhere if either of us can accomodate.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

EnjoliWoman said:


> Yes we are in the same boat. I'm half-resigned (only half) to not really dating until she's off to college.
> 
> I wanted to start a single-parent meet-up group but don't have the time to manage one. (Oh the irony)
> 
> I figure there are lots of alternating weekend parents out there.


Your daughter is 14, in less time then you realize she will be getting an active social life of her own and will WANT you go out on dates. Be sure you lock up the liquor cabinet.  I would say when she hits 16 you'll find yourself with a lot more freedom.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

aston said:


> I noticed no one here has talked about how some of us TRULY like our "space" and our domain. After being with someone almost a decade and vidorving, the last 3 years of living alone has taught me that I truly honestly enjoy living on my own and not at anyones beck and call or shacking up with anyone.
> 
> My belief is that relationships thrive in small doses. The minute one person (usually the woman...just saying) wants more...and more then those lines are blurred. What used to be cute now becomes annoying, what used to be funny now gets old, people stop putting in the effort and 30 pounds later they wonder why you are no longer as chivalrous (among other things) as you used to be.
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I like space in relationships. I think it keeps people in check. Talking on the phone for hours on end however is not something I subscribe to. I'd rather you just meet me somewhere if either of us can accomodate.


:iagree: You and are definitely on the same wavelength. No one has talked about having their own space..until me.  I'm always the odd person out.  Had to put my .02 cents in for those of us who actually like being single, want to remain that way but wouldn't mind a date or two here or there to make things interesting. 

I will never again marry or live with someone. I seriously mean that. I hated being married, couldn't wait to get out of it and have never missed living with someone. When my ex and I were separated he asked several times if we could live together again and I DID NOT want that. People ask "Do you get lonely?" "Do you get bored?". My answer is a resounding "NO, I do not!" 

To this day, whenever I come through the door of MY apartment I feel a sense of well being and peace. I can do whatever I want, act anyway I want, go where I want to go. Contrast that with years of cringing in fear and feeling my stomach tighten up whenever I heard the door open and my husband footsteps on the stairs when he came home. NEVER NEVER AGAIN!!

I love living alone, have never been happier and that part of my life will never change. Anyone who dates me will have to accept that about me. You can jump on my bandwagon, hang on and enjoy the ride, but the moment you try to steer and take control then it's time to get off!


----------



## Pbartender

Freak On a Leash said:


> Your daughter is 14, in less time then you realize she will be getting an active social life of her own and will WANT you go out on dates. Be sure you lock up the liquor cabinet.  I would say when she hits 16 you'll find yourself with a lot more freedom.


My daughter is 14 and she's already there, however...

Because of all that, one of her biggest frustrations right now is a dilemma born of the half and half custody schedule the WWotMW insisted on... D14's usual time for socializing with her friends is Friday evening, a night of the week the kids are always scheduled with me. She wants to spend that time with her friends, but she also wants to spend it with me.

I don't normally begrudge her time with her friends, but it's very often a tough choice for her.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

aston said:


> Haven been through my parents divorce at a very young age (around 8) and through my moms other marriages I can say this is a debatable issue.
> 
> *I will never have a FWB around my kids but if it's someone I'm dating over a long period of time (6 months or more) then I have no problem wiht my kids seeing or meeting the person. *We often underestimate our childrens intelligence but they are not idiots. They can put 2/2 together. Out of respect for the kids the least one can do IMO is introduce them as daddy / mommy's new friend. No adult should be sneaking their bf/gf in and out the backdoor so the kids won't notice comings and goings. Though timing here is key if you can do it around custody.
> 
> Till date I have only introduced one partner to the kids and it was after 6 months (almost 2 yrs ago). the rest can stay in the shadows lol.


But that is what I was saying. 6 months is a long enough relationship to introduce to your children. What I don't want to do is have a revolving door of people coming in an out of my children's lives like so many do.


----------



## aston

Freak On a Leash said:


> :iagree: You and are definitely on the same wavelength.... for those of us who actually like being single, want to remain that way but wouldn't mind a date or two here or there to make things interesting.
> 
> I will never again marry or live with someone. I seriously mean that. I hated being married, couldn't wait to get out of it and have never missed living with someone. When my ex and I were separated he asked several times if we could live together again and I DID NOT want that. People ask "Do you get lonely?" "Do you get bored?". My answer is a resounding "NO, I do not!"
> 
> To this day, whenever I come through the door of MY apartment I feel a sense of well being and peace. I can do whatever I want, act anyway I want, go where I want to go. Contrast that with years of cringing in fear and feeling my stomach tighten up whenever I heard the door open and my husband footsteps on the stairs when he came home. NEVER NEVER AGAIN!!
> 
> I love living alone, have never been happier and that part of my life will never change. Anyone who dates me will have to accept that about me. You can jump on my bandwagon, hang on and enjoy the ride, but the moment you try to steer and take control then it's time to get off!


AAAMENN!!! :iagree: Some of us actually enjoy being single and living alone! You couldn't have said it any better!
I fing it amusing when you talk to these people whose life mission is to move in with someone, pop babies and live "happily ever after".....YEA RIGHT! Been there done that got the scars and survived it!

Thats the one thing I'm never changing after haven been through it once. Similar to your point everytime the door opened to my ex my heart rate went up cause I didn't know what the day/night's verbal/emotional ambush was going to be.
Some days I would get home and just sit in my car because I didn't want to go inside the house...it was that bad. I did not look forward to weekends because weekends felt like a war zone.

So why would I take two steps forward and 10 steps back by living with someone among other things?? HELL TO THE NO! lol


----------



## Freak On a Leash

Pbartender said:


> My daughter is 14 and she's already there, however...
> 
> Because of all that, one of her biggest frustrations right now is a dilemma born of the half and half custody schedule the WWotMW insisted on... D14's usual time for socializing with her friends is Friday evening, a night of the week the kids are always scheduled with me. She wants to spend that time with her friends, but she also wants to spend it with me.
> 
> I don't normally begrudge her time with her friends, but it's very often a tough choice for her.


You and your ex are going to have to accommodate to your child's needs and desires. That might mean changing your visitation schedule. It's not fair to do otherwise. She deserves her time to grow and develop as an independent person, apart from her parents. This is just the beginning and if you try to constrain her restrict her due to your visitation schedule you are in for a real battle.

She will grow resentful and angry and blame you for everything that is wrong in her life. The teenage years are stressful enough when growing up in a home where both parents are still married. Is it fair for her social life and development to be affected due to the fact that your marriage failed?

Time to let her decide for herself when and how she wants to spend time with your and your ex. If there's a time for you and your ex to work together for the benefit for your child, it's now. 

Do you think that I like that my 15 year old son prefers to be and live with his father? Of course not, but it was better for him and for our relationship that I let him go and be in a place and situation that is best for my son, my ego or sensibilities be damned. It's not about your or your ex wife anymore. 

Welcome to living with teenagers. It can be heaven or hell..it's in all in how you handle it.


----------



## aston

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> But that is what I was saying. 6 months is a long enough relationship to introduce to your children. What I don't want to do is have a revolving door of people coming in an out of my children's lives like so many do.


:iagree:


----------



## Pbartender

Freak On a Leash said:


> You and your ex are going to have to accommodate to your child's needs and desires. It's not fair to do otherwise. She deserves her time to grow and develop as an independent person, apart from her parents. This is just the beginning and if you try to constrain her restrict her due to your visitation schedule you are in for a real battle.


Oh, of course I don't... She doesn't always get go out with her friends, but I let her go as often as opportunity allows.

It's D14 who's struggling with it more than me... She wants to spend time with her friends AND with me, but the custody schedule doesn't always give her enough time to do both as much as she'd like.



Freak On a Leash said:


> She will grow resentful and angry and blame you for everything that is wrong in her life.


Actually, she already is beginning to grow resentful and frustrated, but not with me...



Freak On a Leash said:


> The teenage years are stressful enough when growing up in a home where both parents are still married. Is it fair for her social life and development to be affected due to the fact that your marriage failed?
> 
> Time to let her decide for herself when and how she wants to spend time with your and your ex. If there's a time for you and your ex to work together for the benefit for your child, it's now.


And I agree 100%.

I would be happy to let D14 choose her own schedule (she's already said she'd prefer to just do alternate weeks), and D14 knows that, but the current custody schedule wasn't my idea. It was X's. Thus far, every time D14 has tried to talk to X about it, X ignores her or flat out tells her "No" with no reasoning behind it.


Anyway, as far as dating and my kids goes...

I get to be with my kids less than half the time. So, when I'm with them, I'm with them 100%. When they aren't there, I can do whatever I like, and I do. If I want to date, I can date on my own time. I don't need to date on theirs.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

:rofl:


aston said:


> AAAMENN!!! :iagree: Some of us actually enjoy being single and living alone! You couldn't have said it any better!
> I fing it amusing when you talk to these people whose life mission is to move in with someone, pop babies and live "happily ever after".....YEA RIGHT! Been there done that got the scars and survived it!
> 
> Thats the one thing I'm never changing after haven been through it once. Similar to your point everytime the door opened to my ex my heart rate went up cause I didn't know what the day/night's verbal/emotional ambush was going to be.
> Some days I would get home and just sit in my car because I didn't want to go inside the house...it was that bad. I did not look forward to weekends because weekends felt like a war zone.
> 
> So why would I take two steps forward and 10 steps back by living with someone among other things?? HELL TO THE NO! lol


Now YOU are actually someone I'd consider dating.  I wouldn't have to worry about someone like you becoming like one of those burrs that gets into your hair or clothing and just WON'T GET OUT!! 

I'd say 90% of the people I know and talk to are on a "mission" to find that significant other. Their entire existence is now dating..whether it be going to Meetup groups to find "that person" or online dating or joining clubs to meet someone..it's all about the "hunt". And this is after they spent years in a bad marriage and spent thousands of dollars to get divorced. Barely a few months later, before the ink is even dry on the divorce papers, off they go signing up on every dating site on the planet, spending HOURS texting and talking to strangers even before that first date! Then they go out and sleep around and wonder why they are so miserable.

One girlfriend says she wants to find someone else who will "validate" her and she can depend on. I asked why can't she depend on and validate herself? "Needing" is bad. "Wanting" is good but if you don't get what you want then you should be good too. 

After 25 years of feeling like a bird in a cage the last thing I want once I escape the cage is to get caught in another! Would I like someone fun to hang with and do fun things together? Sure! But I don't live or die by it. Either way, it's all good. 

I hear you on not wanting to go in the house or be home on weekends. I used to take extended trips to get away from the hell that was my marriage. I NEVER wanted to stay home while I was married. I think it's a good sign that now that I'm single I have no problem with just spending a quiet night in my apartment, just hanging out and enjoying the silence.


----------



## aston

Freak On a Leash said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Now YOU are actually someone I'd consider dating.  I wouldn't have to worry about someone like you becoming like one of those burrs that gets into your hair or clothing and just WON'T GET OUT!!
> 
> Their entire existence is now dating....And this is after they spent years in a bad marriage and spent thousands of dollars to get divorced. Barely a few months later, before the ink is even dry on the divorce papers, off they go signing up on every dating site on the planet, spending HOURS texting and talking to strangers even before that first date! Then they go out and sleep around and wonder why they are so miserable.
> 
> One girlfriend says she wants to find someone else who will "validate" her and she can depend on. I asked why can't she depend on and validate herself? "Needing" is bad. "Wanting" is good but if you don't get what you want then you should be good too.
> 
> After 25 years of feeling like a bird in a cage the last thing I want once I escape the cage is to get caught in another! Would I like someone fun to hang with and do fun things together? Sure! But I don't live or die by it. Either way, it's all good.


:smthumbup: HA! I'd date you too LOL, jsut don't show up in a U-Haul afte the first month LOL
I compare them to super glue getting stuck on your finger. You wash it at first..it won't go, then you try hot water...still won't go, vaseline...still won't go, then a nail filer....it won't go...a day or two later it peels off taking part of your skin with it LOL.

I think some people need a therapist more than they need a boyfriend (or girlfriend), they often confuse the need to take care of themselves with the need to have someone validate their needs and in effect take care of their emotional and psychological well being (which often includes the physical).

I just love being able to go home, put my feet up, have a bite, relax, watch Turner Classic Movies (or whatever I want), come and go as I please without someone breathing down my bark or complaining about one thing or another.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

Pbartender said:


> Oh, of course I don't... She doesn't always get go out with her friends, but I let her go as often as opportunity allows.
> 
> It's D14 who's struggling with it more than me... She wants to spend time with her friends AND with me, but the custody schedule doesn't always give her enough time to do both as much as she'd like.
> 
> Actually, she already is beginning to grow resentful and frustrated, but not with me...
> 
> I would be happy to let D14 choose her own schedule (she's already said she'd prefer to just do alternate weeks), and D14 knows that, but the current custody schedule wasn't my idea. It was X's. Thus far, every time D14 has tried to talk to X about it, X ignores her or flat out tells her "No" with no reasoning behind it.


I didn't think you were the problem. You seem reasonable. I figured it was the X. Unfortunately if she was reasonable and emphatic you would probably be married.  The shame of it is that your daughter has to be put in the situation of choosing and either feel guilt or anger depending on what her choice is. No child should have to deal with that. 

Chances are that if you were STILL married the situation would be the same. Typical scenario of a mother trying to control her budding adolescent daughter. As the mother of one I've seen it time and time again with my daughter's friends and it doesn't end well. Some parents just can't help but be control freaks and our current society's way of thinking with regards to our kids just encourages it. 

And then there's the whole situation with you. No doubt she feels that if she changes the custody schedule that would give YOU the upper hand. It's about who "wins". What's sad is that in the end, it's the child who loses. 

Your ex wife is acting like a complete a$s. What's probably going to happen is that your daughter is going to tell her mother to F-off and completely disregard the visitation schedule. There does come a point where a teenage child has the right to decide for herself who and when she wants to visit with each parent. 

You need to advocate for your child. She will need your help on this one. Try and accommodate her as much as you can, even if it means she spends less time with you. It will pay off in the end, trust me. You might have to fight your ex on this one, perhaps talk to your attorney about changing the visitation schedule or find out when your daughter can legally call the shots. 

My son made it VERY clear from the beginning (when he was about 14) that he wanted to be able to decide when he was to see my ex and me. My ex and I both agreed that should be the case and have pretty much let my son decide for himself when he wanted to visit with each of us. I might not see my son as much but I do know that that when he does see me he WANTS to see me. He's not there because of a court order. 

Of course there are extenuating circumstances, like when my ex or I go out of town and my son has to stay with one of us. At 16, our son can stay alone a lot so we usually don't have a problem. Plus my ex and I live 3 miles apart so that helps too.

I will say that one of the few things my ex and I agreed on was that neither of us wanted to be tied down to a visitation schedule. I didn't want it, neither did he. It's worked out quite well. But then again, I'm never used the divorce to fight or wage a war against him. I'm also not a control freak. I just wanted out of the marriage and to keep the kids happy and disrupt their lives as little as possible. 



> Anyway, as far as dating and my kids goes...
> 
> I get to be with my kids less than half the time. So, when I'm with them, I'm with them 100%. When they aren't there, I can do whatever I like, and I do. If I want to date, I can date on my own time. I don't need to date on theirs.


I totally respect and agree with that. IMO, if you are with your kids then you should devote your time to them whenever possible. If my son comes to visit or my daughter comes home to see me from college then I'm with them. Period. If someone can't accept that then I don't want them in my life.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

aston said:


> :smthumbup: HA! I'd date you too LOL, jsut don't show up in a U-Haul afte the first month LOL
> I compare them to super glue getting stuck on your finger. You wash it at first..it won't go, then you try hot water...still won't go, vaseline...still won't go, then a nail filer....it won't go...a day or two later it peels off taking part of your skin with it LOL.
> 
> I think some people need a therapist more than they need a boyfriend (or girlfriend), they often confuse the need to take care of themselves with the need to have someone validate their needs and in effect take care of their emotional and psychological well being (which often includes the physical).
> 
> I just love being able to go home, put my feet up, have a bite, relax, watch Turner Classic Movies (or whatever I want), come and go as I please without someone breathing down my bark or complaining about one thing or another.


:iagree: I am so down with this! 

Holy crap...showing up with a U Haul! I hope that never happened? :rofl: I think when their toothbrush starts to show up or they ask for key it's a bad sign. My ex used to tell me the girls he dated would just "be there" when he got home from work or want a key..and then he knew it was over. 

I haven't hit that scenario, not do I expect to. I come across pretty fast as someone who likes being on their own. I think that's why I scare so many away. 

I agree, most need a therapy after divorce. Instead of doing online dating they should find a good therapist and work on themselves for at least a year. It would be a MUCH better investment in the long run. I have always told my kids that if you can live with yourself happily then life will be much easier if and when you decide to share your life with someone else. 

I'm with you on how awesome it is to be on your own. I come home, eat what I want, when I want and happily spend hours playing video games or watching Star Trek til 3 am. I can blast MY music for as long or as loud as I want. I can drive my Jeep with the doors off and top down in 30 degree weather. If I want I can get up and go hiking for hours or go to a concert. No worries, no guilt trips, no problems. 

S..Stress
I..Is not gone
N..Now
G..Gone
L..Life's
E..Easier

:smthumbup:


----------



## aston

Freak On a Leash said:


> :iagree: I am so down with this!
> 
> I think when their toothbrush starts to show up or they ask for key it's a bad sign.
> 
> I'm with you on how awesome it is to be on your own. I come home, eat what I want, when I want and happily spend hours playing video games or watching Star Trek til 3 am. I can blast MY music for as long or as loud as I want. I can drive my Jeep with the doors off and top down in 30 degree weather. If I want I can get up and go hiking for hours or go to a concert. No worries, no guilt trips, no problems.
> 
> S..Stress
> I..Is not gone
> N..Now
> G..Gone
> L..Life's
> E..Easier
> 
> :smthumbup:


Nice way to sum it up. Staying over and leaving your supplies are two very different things. This is why I get uncomfortable having anyone stay over to begin with. 
Some people take this as the green light to leave a brush, deodorant and very soon they're talking keys. No thanks! lol

Freedom is appreciated after it's lost....and sometimes regained. I actually know more married but miserable people than I do divorced and miserable people. Funny after my divorce friends and acquaintances started coming out of the woodworks to confide in me on how miserable they are in their marriages....mind you some of these very same people were the ones advising against divorce and how happy a marriage can be if you "do the work" LOL.
Funny in the very least.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

aston said:


> . Funny after my divorce friends and acquaintances started coming out of the woodworks to confide in me on how miserable they are in their marriages....mind you some of these very same people were the ones advising against divorce and how happy a marriage can be if you "do the work" LOL.
> Funny in the very least.


It's like that Three Days Grace song says..." Cause Misery Loves My Company"..


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## aston

Freak On a Leash said:


> It's like that Three Days Grace song says..." Cause Misery Loves My Company"..


Tony Bennett - I wanna be around, To pick up the pieces...when somebody breaks your heart......cause misery love company...and thats when I'll discover that revenge is sweet...while I sit there applauding from the front row seat...


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## Freak On a Leash

So you like Tony Bennett and I like Three Days Grace? Well, so much for that relationship. :rofl:

I rarely find guys who like my music.


----------



## aston

Freak On a Leash said:


> So you like Tony Bennett and I like Three Days Grace? Well, so much for that relationship. :rofl:
> 
> I rarely find guys who like my music.


HAHa I actually saw them in Ontario a year ago! I know them, not bad at all. If it's any consolation I'm the only guy in his 30's you'll find at a Tony Bennett show lol.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

aston said:


> HAHa I actually saw them in Ontario a year ago! I know them, not bad at all. If it's any consolation I'm the only guy in his 30's you'll find at a Tony Bennett show lol.


You won't find me at a Tony Bennett show and I'm 50 but you'll find at the front row of a Korn concert. I'm going to see them the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving. How many women my age have to ask their 19 year old daughter "Is it ok if I go to see Korn the night before Thanksgiving?" :rofl:


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## aston

Freak On a Leash said:


> You won't find me at a Tony Bennett show and I'm 50 but you'll find at the front row of a Korn concert. I'm going to see them the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving. How many women my age have to ask their 19 year old daughter "Is it ok if I go to see Korn the night before Thanksgiving?" :rofl:


HAHA! now you jsut sound like a banger sister :smthumbup:


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## Freak On a Leash

aston said:


> HAHA! now you jsut sound like a banger sister :smthumbup:


:rofl: Yeah, but I never settled down. I've never changed. Some people go through their second childhood. I never left my first.  My daughter says I need to "discover my inner adult". :rofl:

..My friends and I at a recent party..:rofl:


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## forlorn99

I have found that two or three dates is the norm now. 
I have dated three women since my divorce 

almost 6 months - third date
5 dates (2 weeks) - second date 
and 1 date did not sleep with her.


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## HappyKaty

forlorn99 said:


> I have found that two or three dates is the norm now.
> I have dated three women since my divorce
> 
> almost 6 months - third date
> 5 dates (2 weeks) - second date
> and 1 date did not sleep with her.


I tend to agree with your idea of the "norm". My girlfriends all give it up after two or three dates. I just don't have the urge, or desire, to have sex with someone before I'm convinced it's not the ONLY thing he wants.

The more I think about it, the more I'm like ehh, whatevs. Dating is too damn stressful.


----------



## forlorn99

I am not the kind of person that you are thinking I am. I wanted a long term relationship with the first girl, she broke up with me. The second girl also decided that she no longer wanted to date. I believe that I was with women that were a bit to young. I am always honest with them up front about me and my kids etc.. but they dont really understand until they see it.


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## HappyKaty

forlorn99 said:


> I am not the kind of person that you are thinking I am.


Oh, honey. Please believe I didn't assume anything about you. I'm no one's judge.


----------



## aston

Freak On a Leash said:


> :rofl: Yeah, but I never settled down. I've never changed. Some people go through their second childhood. I never left my first.  My daughter says I need to "discover my inner adult". :rofl:
> 
> ..My friends and I at a recent party..:rofl:


HA! that looks like a good time for sure!! Definitely a banger sister :rofl:


----------



## hambone

arbitrator said:


> *Ham, a few times her equally-wealthy, divorced, alcoholic, corporate VP, first husband would show up totally unannounced often to see if the kids would go back to his estate with him, whether it was his weekend or not. XW often wouldn't let them go with him, more especially if he had been drinking. He was a mild-mannered guy who just loved to hit the sauce!
> 
> Oftentimes he showed up while my vehicle was parked there in the circular driveway, but I never really felt, that in his physical state, that my presence there even registered with him. I just stayed up in the guest quarters and just observed all of the goings-on from a strategic window up there.
> 
> I never ever had a confrontation with him, nor was I ever introduced to him. And just months before XW's and my wedding, he was found dead in his home from "mysterious" causes, although the coroner finally ruled that it was "suicide through alcohol consumption," as his blood alcohol reading was literally through the roof.
> 
> I personally did not think that it was proper for me to be there while her kids were there, as it would have been just as easy for me to have gone back to my place on the South side of town. But I seemed to listen much more to her than I did my own conscience and internal values.
> 
> I don't ever want to marry into wealth again!
> 
> *


Money does not buy happiness.

Unless you know how to handle money, more money can just make your life more miserable. 

I grew up poor. God has blessed me beyond my wildest dreams. If you are happy.. that is all that matters. 

There are a whole lot of people in this world who are rich and miserable.


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## arbitrator

*Arb's Old Home!*


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## TheGoodGuy

Seems like a few folks have very strong feelings against "settling down" and/or getting married ever again. I honestly think we all have our own wants and desires and to each their own. Here are my thoughts on the subject, as a different viewpoint (different, not better/worse) even though we might have strayed a bit from the original thread:

I hear you in that you were so miserable in marriage that you never want to try it again. I guess our situations were different. I was happy in marriage, until the end of both. I have never cheated, but have been cheated on in both of my marriages. Part of my failure was letting myself get into a rut and wanting to believe that I could "fix" things and keep things hunky dory. I can see now that all I was doing was staying in a sort of fog of my own, and not truly dealing with things that needed dealing with. It may not make sense to everyone, but the whole #3 thing rings very true to me. 

I for one am a fan of marriage, or partnership, or whatever. I eventually want "the one" who I can travel life's path with. Have I chosen wrongly in the past and let my boundaries get trampled? Ab-so-fvcking-lutely. I am vowing to do better in the future. I don't NEED someone else to make me happy, but I WANT to share this life with a companion. I am a loyal person. I enjoy having someone else to talk to about how my day went and hear about theirs. I enjoy the security of having a person I love around when I need some physical "language of love" type love. Like holding hands. Yep, I'm that guy who likes holding hands. In public. Get used to it.

TOO LONG DID NOT READ VERSION: I'm glad I found this place to learn from others and put my thoughts down on "paper". I'm glad we're all different, and it's very enlightening to hear the different viewpoints. There will be some who disagree with me and think I'm being a chump, but I'm OK with it. The lumber doesn't bother me anymore.


----------



## HappyKaty

TheGoodGuy said:


> Seems like a few folks have very strong feelings against "settling down" and/or getting married ever again. I honestly think we all have our own wants and desires and to each their own. Here are my thoughts on the subject, as a different viewpoint (different, not better/worse) even though we might have strayed a bit from the original thread:
> 
> I hear you in that you were so miserable in marriage that you never want to try it again. I guess our situations were different. I was happy in marriage, until the end of both. I have never cheated, but have been cheated on in both of my marriages. Part of my failure was letting myself get into a rut and wanting to believe that I could "fix" things and keep things hunky dory. I can see now that all I was doing was staying in a sort of fog of my own, and not truly dealing with things that needed dealing with. It may not make sense to everyone, but the whole #3 thing rings very true to me.
> 
> I for one am a fan of marriage, or partnership, or whatever. I eventually want "the one" who I can travel life's path with. Have I chosen wrongly in the past and let my boundaries get trampled? Ab-so-fvcking-lutely. I am vowing to do better in the future. I don't NEED someone else to make me happy, but I WANT to share this life with a companion. I am a loyal person. I enjoy having someone else to talk to about how my day went and hear about theirs. I enjoy the security of having a person I love around when I need some physical "language of love" type love. Like holding hands. Yep, I'm that guy who likes holding hands. In public. Get used to it.
> 
> TOO LONG DID NOT READ VERSION: I'm glad I found this place to learn from others and put my thoughts down on "paper". I'm glad we're all different, and it's very enlightening to hear the different viewpoints. There will be some who disagree with me and think I'm being a chump, but I'm OK with it. The lumber doesn't bother me anymore.


I love this! You make me hopeful.


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## TheGoodGuy

HappyKaty said:


> I love this! You make me hopeful.


Glad my ramblings made sense to someone. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dedicated2Her

TheGoodGuy said:


> Glad my ramblings made sense to someone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is a certain amount of bitterness one must overcome. A certain amount of forgiveness that one must have. A certain amount of trust in themselves, in order to marry again as a betrayed spouse. For the record, I want companionship. I want to get married again. Someday. It will take a very special person who is willing to be patient and "peel back the onion" with me on both sides. I get joy from giving and doing things for others. I was built for companionship. To deny that, would be robbing myself in addition to robbing someone else of the potentially dynamic relationship. Most here, not all, still struggle with the forgiveness portion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman

Yes, TGG - I agree. I have learned to set boundaries. I already knew how to communicate but I did avoid confrontation which I am willing to do now.

I don't need a man to feel complete - I WANT a man to share this life with. I am not jaded about marriage at all.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Anyways back on topic.. How many dates before sex? Not sure there is a specific number. I'm in the "exclusive before sex" camp. You can always break up if it's just not there for either party.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyKaty

EnjoliWoman said:


> I don't need a man to feel complete - I WANT a man to share this life with. I am not jaded about marriage at all.


Me, too. And, that's why I don't particularly mind the fact that I'm picky. A man is not a necessity, but a bonus. 

In all honesty, I kinda like being single.


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## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> Yes, TGG - I agree. I have learned to set boundaries. I already knew how to communicate but I did avoid confrontation which I am willing to do now.
> 
> I don't need a man to feel complete - I WANT a man to share this life with. I am not jaded about marriage at all.


I'll be the first to admit I'm JADED when it comes to marriage. Everytime I say "I Love you" it shouldn't cost me a house (among other things).

The analysis is pretty simple: Compare yourself now to when you were married....which do you prefer. If you prefer your life when you were married then maybe it's for you, if you prefer your life now then why take 2 steps forward and 10 steps back?

I don't believe marriage is a "need". Some of us are happy post divorce and content as such. It's not an anti marriage thing, it's simply a matter of preference and lifes choices. Mine simply doesn't cater to the intricacies that come with the institution of marriage.


----------



## Pbartender

EnjoliWoman said:


> I don't need a man to feel complete - I WANT a man to share this life with.


I feel the same about having a woman to share my adventures with...

I'm just no longer certain that marriage is required to do that.


----------



## aston

Pbartender said:


> I feel the same about having a woman to share my adventures with...
> 
> I'm just no longer certain that marriage is required to do that.


AAAMEN!! well said! Companionship and matrimony are two different things.


----------



## 06Daddio08

"Getting Married" changes nothing in a long term relationship and the only way it would is if the expectations of getting hitched were unhealthy.

I'd have no problem getting married again, to the right woman.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

The piece of paper doesn't matter so much as a committed intimate relationship does. I have friends for companionship - I want a partnership.

I am happier not married to my ex but that has 100% to do with the person I was married to, not marriage itself. I think over all I would be happier married or in a committed relationship than I am single.


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> The piece of paper doesn't matter so much as a committed intimate relationship does. I have friends for companionship - I want a partnership.
> 
> I am happier not married to my ex but that has 100% to do with the person I was married to, not marriage itself. I think over all I would be happier married or in a committed relationship than I am single.


Being single doesn't imply being alone, also two different things. You can be single status wise but be in a relationship or partnership that makes you happy. Believe it or not marriage is a status thing for some people.

I enjoy being single and living my life on my own terms. No need for anyone to come and complicate it. I date who I want and if it's not working I simply end things instead of subjecting myself to the misery of a miserable union.

It all starts great....until you both sign the doted line and expectations get warped. Just saying...


----------



## Jellybeans

forlorn99 said:


> . I believe that I was with women that were a bit to young. I am always honest with them up front about me and my kids etc.. but they dont really understand until they see it.


How old were they? How old are you? 

Maybe you should date older women (then they were).



arbitrator said:


> *Arb's Old Home!*


BEAUTIFUL!


----------



## Jellybeans

Freak On a Leash said:


> My one sexual encounter was with an old friend who I had a FWB with 25 years ago before I started dating my ex husband. It was one time, served it's purpose and I ended it when it became apparent that it would be more about "benefits" then "friends." *That's not how I roll. *


Haha. :rofl: Love ya, Freak!


----------



## arbitrator

Jellybeans said:


> .
> BEAUTIFUL!


*Circa 1895. Construction actually commenced in 1891. Long history behind it! We were only the 4th set of owners in its history!*


----------



## Jellybeans

I am a massive fan of Victorian-style homes. It's gorgeous, arb.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

You're right. You are jaded. 

I don't want to be single and be with someone who doesn't view our relationship as permanent. I'd rather be single and alone. I'm not going to live with someone if they feel it's a complication or the person can "simply end things" - they aren't committed if that's their feeling on the union. 

So paper or not, I do eventually want to find a very committed partner. I won't warp my expectations.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

aston said:


> Being single doesn't imply being alone, also two different things. You can be single status wise but be in a relationship or partnership that makes you happy. Believe it or not marriage is a status thing for some people.
> 
> I enjoy being single and living my life on my own terms. No need for anyone to come and complicate it. I date who I want and if it's not working I simply end things instead of subjecting myself to the misery of a miserable union.
> 
> It all starts great....until you both sign the doted line and expectations get warped. Just saying...


ou're right. You are jaded. 

I don't want to be single and be with someone who doesn't view our relationship as permanent. I'd rather be single and alone. I'm not going to live with someone if they feel it's a complication or the person can "simply end things" - they aren't committed if that's their feeling on the union.

So paper or not, I do eventually want to find a very committed partner. I won't warp my expectations.


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> You're right. You are jaded.
> 
> I don't want to be single and be with someone who doesn't view our relationship as permanent. I'd rather be single and alone. I'm not going to live with someone if they feel it's a complication or the person can "simply end things" - they aren't committed if that's their feeling on the union.
> 
> So paper or not, I do eventually want to find a very committed partner. I won't warp my expectations.


So you won't have dinner with me? LMAO:rofl:


----------



## EnjoliWoman

If I'm ever in CT, sure! If you're ever in NC, sure!


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> If I'm ever in CT, sure! If you're ever in NC, sure!


Jet Blue has good flight deals LOL


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Pbartender said:


> I feel the same about having a woman to share my adventures with...
> 
> I'm just no longer certain that marriage is required to do that.


Agreed completely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Curious, what does "exclusive before sex" even mean? Is a ONS exclusive?

All of my sexual relationships are "exclusive" as I understand them. This is pretty close to a default behavior. Few people I've ever met are like "Cool you had sex with Cindy last night after our nooner... high five!"

Are you all sure you aren't using "exclusivity" in the place of "commitment"? Because if I had to guess a number to put on it, I'd say 85-90% of people want exclusivity. Very few people are into playing sexual musical chairs.


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Curious, what does "exclusive before sex" even mean? Is a ONS exclusive?
> 
> All of my sexual relationships are "exclusive" as I understand them. This is pretty close to a default behavior. Few people I've ever met are like "Cool you had sex with Cindy last night after our nooner... high five!"
> 
> Are you all sure you all aren't using "exclusivity" in the place of "commitment"? Because if I had to guess a number to put on it, I'd say 85-90% of people want exclusivity. Very few people are into playing sexual musical chairs.


Exclusivity needs to be defined between both parties so there's a full understanding of what both of your definition of "exclusivity" is. 
In my recent experience the same person who brought up exclusivity was going on dates and screwing other guys...given we were only about 6 - 8 weeks in. I cut her loose though .


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Curious, what does "exclusive before sex" even mean? Is a ONS exclusive?
> 
> All of my sexual relationships are "exclusive" as I understand them. This is pretty close to a default behavior. Few people I've ever met are like "Cool you had sex with Cindy last night after our nooner... high five!"
> 
> Are you all sure you all aren't using "exclusivity" in the place of "commitment"? Because if I had to guess a number to put on it, I'd say 85-90% of people want exclusivity. Very few people are into playing sexual musical chairs.


Right on.

The commitment thing is moot in a new relationship. But, I do wanna know that I'm not his flavor of the day.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

aston said:


> Jet Blue has good flight deals LOL


Well let me know when you arrive.


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> Well let me know when you arrive.


I'm at the Sky Lounge:lol: right now ordering a scotch


----------



## aston

HappyKaty said:


> Right on.
> 
> The commitment thing is moot in a new relationship. But, I do wanna know that I'm not his flavor of the day.


Nothing wrong with being the flavor of a day . lol


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> But, I do wanna know that I'm not his flavor of the day.


[email protected] it! I knew I was doing something wrong!  

But really, I don't think most guys are even capable of changing flavors so rapidly. haha


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> Nothing wrong with being the flavor of a day . lol


I never learned to share.


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> [email protected] it! I knew I was doing something wrong!
> 
> But really, I don't think most guys are even capable of changing flavors so rapidly. haha


Oh, but the majority are convinced otherwise.

Bless their hearts.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Curious, what does "exclusive before sex" even mean? Is a ONS exclusive?
> 
> All of my sexual relationships are "exclusive" as I understand them. This is pretty close to a default behavior. Few people I've ever met are like "Cool you had sex with Cindy last night after our nooner... high five!"
> 
> Are you all sure you aren't using "exclusivity" in the place of "commitment"? Because if I had to guess a number to put on it, I'd say 85-90% of people want exclusivity. Very few people are into playing sexual musical chairs.


Exclusivity doesn't have to mean you have sex. Exclusivity means you won't DATE someone else while seeing the primary companion. Whether or not you are having sex with the primary companion.

A commitment generally comes later. First you are dating exclusively. Then you are committed to the other person being your boyfriend/girlfriend and that does come with sex (usually LOL).

All from an urban/wiki sort of definition from experience only. That is my 'street' interpretation of what those terms mean. A commitment comes after exclusivity and now you can change your facebook status to "in a relationship".


----------



## EnjoliWoman

aston said:


> I'm at the Sky Lounge:lol: right now ordering a scotch


Make it two.


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> Make it two.


Scotch for me, Lager for you?


----------



## EnjoliWoman

aston said:


> Scotch for me, Lager for you?


Yuck. I don't like beer. Much rather have scotch.


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> Yuck. I don't like beer. Much rather have scotch.


Sweet, glass coming up! cheers


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

EnjoliWoman said:


> Exclusivity doesn't have to mean you have sex. Exclusivity means you won't DATE someone else while seeing the primary companion. Whether or not you are having sex with the primary companion.
> 
> A commitment generally comes later. First you are dating exclusively. Then you are committed to the other person being your boyfriend/girlfriend and that does come with sex (usually LOL).
> 
> All from an urban/wiki sort of definition from experience only. That is my 'street' interpretation of what those terms mean. A commitment comes after exclusivity and now you can change your facebook status to "in a relationship".


Ha. True... I tend to link sex and exclusivity in my mind, but you're right. For me though, sex often comes with the first date... and I don't have any expectation of it nor do I push for it. All of my dating is exclusive though. I don't know how the multiple dating thing works for other people. In fact, it was only a recent revelation to me that people even do this multiple dating thing. If I have a date scheduled with someone, I don't even ask anyone else out much less schedule another date. One at a time for me... more than one is too complicated.

The normal process for me has sex and exclusivity throughout, then in relatively short time you automagically reach some commitment of boyfriend/girlfriend... and the facebook status updates... and it gets there without even talking about it.


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Ha.
> The normal process for me has sex and exclusivity throughout, then in relatively short time you automagically reach some commitment of boyfriend/girlfriend... and the facebook status updates... and it gets there without even talking about it.


This is true. But in the age of online dating I have seen people go on 3 dates in one day! My record was two in a three day period.....I needed something to do over the weekend lol.:rofl:


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> This is true. But in the age of online dating I have seen people go on 3 dates in one day! My record was two in a three day period.....I needed something to do over the weekend lol.:rofl:


I'll do 2, per weekend.


----------



## Pbartender

EnjoliWoman said:


> Yuck. I don't like beer. Much rather have scotch.


Scotch... Beer... Why not both? :toast:

Now I want a boilermaker.


----------



## aston

HappyKaty said:


> I'll do 2, per weekend.


Ok now I don't feel like a player lol. I use the online dating analogy here. I think most people treat it like a catalog, hence those serial daters. I know a few people who have been dating online since early 2000's before I got married. Post - divorce they are still at it. I do it too but I'm one leg in one out on it.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

aston said:


> This is true. But in the age of online dating I have seen people go on 3 dates in one day! My record was two in a three day period.....I needed something to do over the weekend lol.:rofl:


lol Don't get me started on how much you can do in a day... although I'm not sure I'd call mine dates. 

I had a... errr... bad period where I just didn't care about anything or anyone. As such, you just wanna see what you can pull off. Maybe there was a little taboo spice in it too. It was short lived ego inflating nonsense when I was in a very bad place and being a very bad person.



Yeah yeah, I was a total sl*t. It was a strange time in my life. :\


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> lol Don't get me started on how much you can do in a day.
> 
> I had a... errr... bad period where I just didn't care about anything or anyone. As such, you just wanna see what you can pull off. Maybe there was a little taboo spice in it too. It was short lived ego inflating nonsense when I was in a very bad place and being a very bad person.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah yeah, I was a total sl*t. It was a strange time in my life. :\


I know about that....a few months post divorce and I was on a rampage reminiscent of my university days.:smthumbup: I didn't even go on many dates it was bang boom!


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> Ok now I don't feel like a player lol


If it goes past two dates, with the same person, I'll refuse others' offers. But, I'm not throwing away options because of ONE good date.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I cancelled a first date with one girl after I found out she accepted a date with someone else the next day. We had a mutual friend at my work who confused me with the other guy, unintentionally spilling the beans.

I didn't even realize that people did this until after cancelling the date and talking about it on this forum and with some friends of mine.

I have an expectation (apparently unreasonable according to previous discussion of it on this forum), that if you accept a date with me, you're not actively dating anyone else nor will you accept other dates. If such a date were accepted, I expect her to notify me and cancel our date. As far as I'm concerned, the acceptance of a date with someone else, is an active decision to not date me. I will share a woman with another guy for no amount of time... even at this early stage.

I tried it after that discussion and both dates were horrible. I don't know how anyone invests anything in someone if they're already lining up other deals.


----------



## Cosmos

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I cancelled a first date with one girl after I found out she accepted a date with someone else the next day. We had a mutual friend at my work who confused me with the other guy, unintentionally spilling the beans.
> 
> I didn't even realize that people did this until after cancelling the date and talking about it on this forum and with some friends of mine.
> 
> I have an expectation (apparently unreasonable according to previous discussion of it on this forum), that if you accept a date with me, you're not actively dating anyone else nor will you accept other dates. If such a date were accepted, I expect her to notify me and cancel our date. As far as I'm concerned, the acceptance of a date with someone else, is an active decision to not date me. I will share a woman with another guy for no amount of time... even at this early stage.
> 
> I tried it after that discussion and both dates were horrible. I don't know how anyone invests anything in someone if they're already lining up other deals.


Wow! When I was in my 20s it wasn't unusual for me to have several different dates in one week. I only stopped dating others if I felt a connection with someone and we decided to date exclusively. I would have been very wary of a man who thought he had exclusive rights after a couple of dates.


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I tried it after that discussion and both dates were horrible. I don't know how anyone invests anything in someone if they're already lining up other deals.


This is simply a reflection of the go go go / fast pace / highest bidder / instant gratification mentality that's become of our society. People are not willing ot invest time time in one person.


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> This is simply a reflection of the go go go / fast pace / highest bidder / instant gratification mentality that's become of our society. People are not willing ot invest time time in one person.


Dating is just that - dating. Why would I want to invest my time, off the rip, in someone I don't know?


----------



## aston

HappyKaty said:


> Dating is just that - dating. Why would I want to invest my time, off the rip, in someone I don't know?


Makes sense, as long as you're willing to accept being treated the same way with the guys you are dating also dating other women ......"right off the rip" to quote ya


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> Makes sense, as long as you're willing to accept being treated the same way with the guys you are dating also dating other women ......"right off the rip" to quote ya


I expect it. 

In fact, it would be kinda creepy if a guy, I'd just met, requested my hand in exclusivity. I'd immediately think he was desperate.


----------



## aston

HappyKaty said:


> I expect it.
> 
> In fact, it would be kinda creepy if a guy, I'd just met, requested my hand in exclusivity. I'd immediately think he was desperate.


Or kept staring at his/her phone the entire date lol


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Cosmos said:


> Wow! When I was in my 20s it wasn't unusual for me to have several different dates in one week. I only stopped dating others if I felt a connection with someone and we decided to date exclusively. I would have been very wary of a man who thought he had exclusive rights after a couple of dates.


Weren't you in the other thread were this was discussed?

Its not even a couple dates... its right from the first date. Its not a control thing either. Don't date me... meh... doesn't matter to me.

The way I figure it, dating is a signal of romantic intent. I want to be romantic, get to know someone and see how far it goes. I find it funny that so many women object to casual sex, but hey, they'll get romantic with 5 guys in a week. 

After all the discussions I've had on it following that thread, I've discovered there's a bit of cake eating going on for many women. To demonstrate this, imagine you meet someone in a bar; you talk awhile, seem to connect and they ask you out, make plans and set a date. Eventually you're pulled away by other friends. Then a couple minutes later the guy who just asked you out is flirting with and running the same pickup on else, setting another date etc.

Most women I've talked to after the thread in which this was discussed, thought this hypothetical guy was a jerk or a player and it would be a major turn off that causes them to cancel the date. Even among those who had already admitted to multiple dating.

What's more, virtually all of the women I talked to keep the fact that they are seeing other men hidden. They rationalize this deception by saying he has no right to know who else she's dating. So its okay, only if its discreet... just another word for hidden.

I found all this dating behind everyone's backs so common that I adjusted how I seal a date by using several variations on asking if she's seeing anyone.

I refuse to share someone with all the other people they're dating. I'm pretty sure you said that same "I'd be wary" line in that thread too. Nope. You're dating just me or I'm not dating you. No need for you to be wary. Accept a date with some other guy, and I'll kick that butt to the curb. He can have you... and the 5 other guys you're seeing.


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> Or kept staring at his/her phone the entire date lol


That happens, too. I was that person during my blind date. Blahhh! Most miserable night, EVER!


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Accept a date with some other guy, and I'll kick that butt to the curb.


I totally respect the fact that you stick to your boundaries.

But, you're smart enough to know they're likely lying to you.


----------



## badcompany

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Weren't you in the other thread were this was discussed?
> 
> Its not even a couple dates... its right from the first date. Its not a control thing either. Don't date me... meh... doesn't matter to me.
> 
> The way I figure it, dating is a signal of romantic intent. I want to know someone and see how far it goes.
> 
> After all the discussions I've had on it following that thread, I've discovered there's a bit of cake eating going on for many women. To demonstrate this, imagine you meet someone in a bar; you talk awhile, seem to connect and they ask you out, make plans and set a date. Eventually you're pulled away by other friends. Then a couple minutes later they flirt and pickup someone else, setting another date etc.
> 
> Most women I've talked to after the thread in which this was discussed, thought this hypothetical guy was a jerk or a player and it would be a major turn off that causes them to cancel the date. Even among those who had already admitted to multiple dating.
> 
> What's more, virtually all of the women I talked to keep the fact that they are seeing other men hidden. They rationalize this deception by saying he has no right to know who else she's dating.
> 
> I found all this dating behind everyone's backs so common that I adjusted how I seal a date by using several variations on asking if she's seeing anyone.
> 
> I refuse to share someone with all the other people they're dating. I'm pretty sure you said that same "I'd be wary" line in that thread too. Nope. You're dating just me or I'm not dating you. No need for you to be wary. Accept a date with some other guy, and I'll kick that butt to the curb. He can have you... and the 5 other guys you're seeing.


BS isn't it?


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Weren't you in the other thread were this was discussed?
> 
> Its not even a couple dates... its right from the first date. Its not a control thing either. Don't date me... meh... doesn't matter to me.
> 
> The way I figure it, dating is a signal of romantic intent. I want to know someone and see how far it goes.
> 
> After all the discussions I've had on it following that thread, I've discovered there's a bit of cake eating going on for many women. To demonstrate this, imagine you meet someone in a bar; you talk awhile, seem to connect and they ask you out, make plans and set a date. Eventually you're pulled away by other friends. Then a couple minutes later they flirt and pickup someone else, setting another date etc.
> 
> Most women I've talked to after the thread in which this was discussed, thought this hypothetical guy was a jerk or a player and it would be a major turn off that causes them to cancel the date. Even among those who had already admitted to multiple dating.
> 
> What's more, virtually all of the women I talked to keep the fact that they are seeing other men hidden. They rationalize this deception by saying he has no right to know who else she's dating.
> 
> I found all this dating behind everyone's backs so common that I adjusted how I seal a date by using several variations on asking if she's seeing anyone.
> 
> I refuse to share someone with all the other people they're dating. I'm pretty sure you said that same "I'd be wary" line in that thread too. Nope. You're dating just me or I'm not dating you. No need for you to be wary. Accept a date with some other guy, and I'll kick that butt to the curb. He can have you... and the 5 other guys you're seeing.


THAAAAANK YOU! What I've been saying all along! also on another thread. Finally someone with the balls to call a spade a spade!!:iagree:


----------



## Cosmos

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> The way I figure it, dating is a signal of romantic intent. I want to know someone and see how far it goes.
> 
> Which is, of course, your prerogative. In the initial dating phase, I like to keep my options open.
> 
> After all the discussions I've had on it following that thread, I've discovered there's a bit of cake eating going on for many women. To demonstrate this, imagine you meet someone in a bar; you talk awhile, seem to connect and they ask you out, make plans and set a date. Eventually you're pulled away by other friends. Then a couple minutes later they flirt and pickup someone else, setting another date etc.
> 
> I didn't used to frequent bars, but I guess if he didn't do it right under my nose it wouldn't bother me. After all, it's just a date.
> 
> Most women I've talked to after the thread in which this was discussed, thought this hypothetical guy was a jerk or a player and it would be a major turn off that causes them to cancel the date. Even among those who had already admitted to multiple dating.
> 
> Again, it would be none of my business if we hadn't even been out on a date, yet, and providing he was discreet.
> 
> What's more, virtually all of the women I talked to keep the fact that they are seeing other men hidden. They rationalize this deception by saying he has no right to know who else she's dating.
> 
> I can't remember ever keeping the fact that I was dating other guys a secret but, again, in the initial stages of dating I wouldn't feel that it was really any of his business.
> 
> I found all this dating behind everyone's backs so common that I adjusted how I seal a date by using several variations on asking if she's seeing anyone.
> 
> Nope. You're dating just me or I'm not dating you.


(And just to clarify, I have never slept with a man without being in an exclusive relationship with him. Therefore, I would never date someone whilst sleeping with another.)


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> I totally respect the fact that you stick to your boundaries.
> 
> But, you're smart enough to know they're likely lying to you.


All women are liars?


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> All women are liars?


That's not what I said. But, how would you know, one way or the other? Afterall, you don't know them, at all, at that point.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Cosmos - why would it bother you if it was right under your nose? If its okay, it shouldn't need to be concealed.

My options are still open when I start dating. If I decide to pursue someone else I meet, I cancel the prior date. But I don't date multiple people concurrently. "Hey girl, you're on for Thursday; and you... you're Friday; blondie... I got you Saturday."

As the more passive participant in approach, female life must be interesting. "Sure, I'd love to go on a date with you!! Let me pencil you in between Bobby's sweet walk and ice cream, and Johnny's expensive romantic dinner."

Really?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> That's not what I said. But, how would you know, one way or the other? Afterall, you don't know them, at all, at that point.


It was rhetorical. I assume all women aren't liars. Finding a liar is accepted risk.

I am a smart man. A woman is going to be able to pull her little "I'm dating everyone" game on me for all of 5 minutes.

To that woman I say: "Go on girl! Keep those options open! They just became 1 option fewer."


----------



## Cosmos

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Cosmos - why would it bother you if it was right under your nose? If its okay, it shouldn't need to be concealed.


Because he would appear a little desperate... I prefer some sophistication and style in a man. Inviting women out in front of one another is tacky


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Cosmos said:


> (And just to clarify, I have never slept with a man without being in an exclusive relationship with him. Therefore, I would never date someone whilst sleeping with another.)


Don't take this personally or with hostility, I just legitimately want to know:

Why is it non-exclusive sex is so taboo that you'd find it necessary to make such a stipulation... but its perfectly okay to accept romantic gifts and affection from umpteen guys at once without batting an eyelash?


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> To that woman I say: "Go on girl! Keep those options open! They just became 1 option fewer."


And, to that man, she'd say: "No love lost, no love found." 

There are WAY too many fish in the sea to reserve all of your free time for a single date that could lead to absolutely nothing.

After a couple of dates, and things look promising, I'd concede; but the first date? No way.

Again, I respect your opinion. To each their own.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Cosmos said:


> Because he would appear a little desperate... I prefer some sophistication and style in a man


Why is the concealment of his pursuit of someone else suddenly less desperate? He can't help the timing of meeting another woman he'd like to date. He's just keeping his options open.

This must be a trigger for me for some reason. It totally hits a hot spot that makes me feel more dismissive toward women.

"Yeah baby, I'm taking your gifts tonight and his gifts tomorrow... soaking up his sweet nothings now and I'll be soaking up yours later. You're all getting played, but I bish about players." 

:rofl:


----------



## Cosmos

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Don't take this personally or with hostility, I just legitimately want to know:
> 
> Why is it non-exclusive sex is so taboo that you'd find it necessary to make such a stipulation... but its perfectly okay to accept romantic gifts and affection from umpteen guys at once without batting an eyelash?


It isn't. My mother taught me never to accept gifts from casual dates, and I took her advice

As for exclusive sex, it's my personal preference. Had I slept with every guy I'd dated and been attracted to, my numbers would have been astronomically high

This probably isn't a fair discussion between you and I, DvlsAdvc, because I'm probably old enough to be your mother In my day things were very different, and there are some things today that, IMO, haven't changed for the better...


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Why is the concealment of his pursuit of someone else suddenly less desperate? He can't help the timing of meeting another woman he'd like to date. He's just keeping his options open.
> 
> This must be a trigger for me for some reason. It totally hits a hot spot that makes me feel more dismissive toward women.
> 
> "Yeah baby, I'm taking your gifts tonight and his gifts tomorrow... soaking up his sweet nothings now and I'll be soaking up yours later. You're all getting played, but I bish about players."
> 
> :rofl:


This goes back to the victim role issue on another thread. A woman does it and she's keeping her options open, a man does it and he's a pig. My recent ex discussed exclusivity and all that comes with it but was going to dinners and movies with guy friends under the "just friends" banner.

I'm sorry but if you're dating one person then you have no business dating other people. Then again to each his own. I already learnt my lesson and to count the many times I have been called a player since I decided to "keep my options open" would be a moot point. Ironically, the same women who call me a player now are the same ones who hitherto talked about "keeping their options open". Again, there's alot of hypocrisy around this subject. Tell a girl you're keeping your options open and she writes you off, but if she's doing the same there's usually a convenient excuse.

I'm sorry I'm not buying it. Call me jaded but the reality is what it is.


----------



## HappyKaty

So, just to be clear, you guys are talking about the FIRST date, right? 

The first time you really meet her, you expect her to be all yours? 

I just don't get it. And, to be honest, I don't know any women that expect the same from a man.


----------



## aston

HappyKaty said:


> So, just to be clear, you guys are talking about the FIRST date, right?
> 
> The first time you really meet her, you expect her to be all yours?
> 
> I just don't get it. And, to be honest, I don't know any women that expect the same from a man.


I'm not talking about the first date, I'm talking about ongoing dates beyond the first date(s).


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## EnjoliWoman

I have never dated multiple men over the same period. HOWEVER, when I was pretty active on match, at one point I was emailing one guy, getting to know if I wanted to go out while having a date lined up for that weekend with a different guy. 

BUT I have never dated two guys at the same time. I've had a string of first dates before but I was always honest that I enjoyed the company but didn't really feel attraction before going to the next guy/date.

I don't have TIME to date multiple men! Heck, as I've pointed out I'm already an every-other-week-er... to date 3 men at once would require body doubles.


----------



## COGypsy

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Don't take this personally or with hostility, I just legitimately want to know:
> 
> Why is it non-exclusive sex is so taboo that you'd find it necessary to make such a stipulation... but its perfectly okay to accept romantic gifts and affection from umpteen guys at once without batting an eyelash?


I maintain that a lot of this back and forth has to do with differing ideas on what constitutes "dating". Generally if gifts and significant affection are involved, I would guess that would indicate a focused interest in a more exclusive relationship. Where the d!ckering seems to be is at what point "a date" becomes "dating". 

To me, the progression is that you meet someone. Whether it's out and about or online or whatever, there's an initial attraction. If it seems to be mutual, then "a date" may be made. Typically that date would be coffee, a drink after work something limited in scope and duration that confirms and potentially builds on that mutual interest. From there perhaps a second, longer date is planned. Maybe dinner or some other outing. After that date, you pretty much know if this is someone you click with and want to see more of. That's the point I'd consider to be the beginning of "dating".

For me personally, I see nothing wrong with having coffee or a drink with potentially a few guys in the space of a week--knowing that for most, if not all of them, that will be the end of that. It's not until we get past a whole dinner or two that it goes from "a date" to "dating". And frankly if there were gifts and more than casual affection before a couple of dates, then that would be weird and awkward anyway. Once I've had a couple of dates with someone and things seem to click, then I don't accept dates from other people.

In the other thread and this one, I think that there's a disconnect between how stages are defined. Or maybe in how people get to know each other along the way. Personally, I'm not much for long email exchanges or group activities as a precursor to just seeing what clicks between me and another person. If I did do the "friends first" thing, then I'd probably have a cutoff between "a date" and "dating" that was much earlier.


----------



## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> I have never dated multiple men over the same period. HOWEVER, when I was pretty active on match, at one point I was emailing one guy, getting to know if I wanted to go out while having a date lined up for that weekend with a different guy.
> 
> BUT I have never dated two guys at the same time. I've had a string of first dates before but I was always honest that I enjoyed the company but didn't really feel attraction before going to the next guy/date.
> 
> I don't have TIME to date multiple men! Heck, as I've pointed out I'm already an every-other-week-er... to date 3 men at once would require body doubles.


Not even on a JetBlue flight or over a Sky Lounge Scotch?


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## HappyKaty

aston said:


> I'm not talking about the first date, I'm talking about ongoing dates beyond the first date(s).


That makes perfect sense to me.


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## Faithful Wife

It is standard dating advice for both men and women to assume the other is dating other people when you first meet. 

I know my H and I were both seeing other people.

This does not necessarily mean having sex with other people but it might. It does mean neither of you are exclusive with anyone else, because that would mean you are actually cheating.

So you date and you continue to date others (not necessarily sleep with others) until some point where it becomes obvious that you want to be exclusive with this one person. Usually the man will bring it up first and ask for exclusivity, because once he decides he likes this one more than the others he will typically want to edge out all the other men in her life. If she likes him better than the others too, she will usually be happy to ditch the rest of them.

Then you enter exclusivity or the bf/gf stage and stop dating others.

I've never been asked on a date and assumed it meant the man was not dating others or that he expected me not to be either.


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## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> And, to that man, she'd say: "No love lost, no love found."
> 
> There are WAY too many fish in the sea to reserve all of your free time for a single date that could lead to absolutely nothing.


Yep, it is a very big sea. Exactly why I won't date this woman... she's busy dating a whole pond at once in some kind of disconnected shot gun approach. Investing next to nothing in someone because you have several more lined up? Being so disinterested in someone you're about to go on a first date with that you accept another date? I feel like its gross of someone to accept the gifts and affections of one man, while she has the gifts and affections of another lined up. Boy, I'd rather meet women for random hookups than deal with that. It shows about the same lack of value for people imo.

How is a dating one man at a time reserving all of your free time? Its too much to ask that a woman engage one man with romantic intentions at a time? Or to not be a cake eater accepting gifts from men left and right in bad faith from the very start? 

If I were to ask out a second woman, that would speak volumes to just how little interest I had in the first.

Been through all this a billion times and it still fries my brain... and I'm not even a jealous or controlling type. I'd just as much dump someone as feel jealous.


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## EnjoliWoman

aston said:


> Not even on a JetBlue flight or over a Sky Lounge Scotch?


As I'm not dating anyone, I have no multiple date conflicts for a scotch in the sky lounge.

BUT even tho I don't do multiple dates, I'm smart enough to not assume exclusivity as previously defined.


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## aston

COGypsy said:


> I maintain that a lot of this back and forth has to do with differing ideas on what constitutes "dating". Generally if gifts and significant affection are involved, I would guess that would indicate a focused interest in a more exclusive relationship. Where the d!ckering seems to be is at what point "a date" becomes "dating".
> 
> To me, the progression is that you meet someone. Whether it's out and about or online or whatever, there's an initial attraction. If it seems to be mutual, then "a date" may be made. Typically that date would be coffee, a drink after work something limited in scope and duration that confirms and potentially builds on that mutual interest. From there perhaps a second, longer date is planned. Maybe dinner or some other outing. After that date, you pretty much know if this is someone you click with and want to see more of. That's the point I'd consider to be the beginning of "dating".
> 
> For me personally, I see nothing wrong with having coffee or a drink with potentially a few guys in the space of a week--knowing that for most, if not all of them, that will be the end of that. It's not until we get past a whole dinner or two that it goes from "a date" to "dating". And frankly if there were gifts and more than casual affection before a couple of dates, then that would be weird and awkward anyway. Once I've had a couple of dates with someone and things seem to click, then I don't accept dates from other people.
> 
> In the other thread and this one, I think that there's a disconnect between how stages are defined. Or maybe in how people get to know each other along the way. Personally, I'm not much for long email exchanges or group activities as a precursor to just seeing what clicks between me and another person. If I did do the "friends first" thing, then I'd probably have a cutoff between "a date" and "dating" that was much earlier.


Thats why first and second dates should never be an elaborate dinner or expensive event and YES split the bill in half! 
If I'm just another option (even after communicating and being comfortable enough to meet for a first and/or second date) then I expect you to meet me half way.

Forget the whole "being a gentleman" thing.....PAY YOUR HALF of the date expenses. I often hear people talk about "he was a cheap date, he made me pay half of the bill"...guess what? I don't pay my friends bill when we meet up for food or drinks and since you don't even know if you'll want to ever see me again.....I sure as hell aren't paying yours :lol:. 

Just saying......when in doubt...go dutch!


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## EnjoliWoman

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Yep, it is a very big sea. Exactly why I won't date this woman... she's busy dating a whole pond at once in some kind of disconnected shot gun approach. Investing next to nothing in someone because you have several more lined up? Being so disinterested in someone you're about to go on a first date with that you accept another date? I feel like its gross of someone to accept the gifts and affections of one man, while she has the gifts and affections of another lined up. Boy, I'd rather meet women for random hookups than deal with that. It shows about the same lack of value for people imo.
> 
> How is a dating one man at a time reserving all of your free time? Its too much to ask that a woman engage one man with romantic intentions at a time? Or to not be a cake eater accepting gifts from men left and right in bad faith from the very start?
> 
> If I were to ask out a second woman, that would speak volumes to just how little interest I had in the first.
> 
> Been through all this a billion times and it still fries my brain... and I'm not even a jealous or controlling type. I'd just as much dump someone as feel jealous.


I totally get what you are saying and agree. But I'm a bit confused about the 'gifts'. Do you mean buying dinner or having sex? Just curious.

Personally I don't want to create a feeling of obligation and offer to get the tip or if it's a drink after work or a coffee before, I buy my own. I LOVE to be treated, but for that first casual meeting I prefer not accepting anything.


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## COGypsy

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I feel like its gross of someone to accept the gifts and affections of one man, while she has the gifts and affections of another lined up.


So exactly what do your first dates look like? The Palm, a diamond tennis bracelet and a hotel room? I guess I don't understand the emotional investment that you're implying in someone whose last name you probably don't even know at that point....


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## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> As I'm not dating anyone, I have no multiple date conflicts for a scotch in the sky lounge.
> 
> BUT even tho I don't do multiple dates, I'm smart enough to not assume exclusivity as previously defined.


I'm leaving on a Jet plane, I don't know when I'll be back again .....
Yes smart assumption :rofl:


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## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> How is a dating one man at a time reserving all of your free time? Its too much to ask that a woman engage one man with romantic intentions at a time? Or to not be a cake eater *accepting gifts from men left and right in bad faith from the very start? *


What woman accepts gifts from a man on the FIRST date?

Furthermore, what man is desperate enough to lavish a woman with gifts on the FIRST date?


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## DvlsAdvc8

Cosmos said:


> It isn't. My mother taught me never to accept gifts from casual dates, and I took her advice
> 
> As for exclusive sex, it's my personal preference. Had I slept with every guy I'd dated and been attracted to, my numbers would have been astronomically high
> 
> This probably isn't a fair discussion between you and I, DvlsAdvc, because I'm probably old enough to be your mother In my day things were very different, and there are some things today that, IMO, haven't changed for the better...



It's just one of those things that really gets my goat. 

It almost makes me twitch that many of my pickups are thought deceptive, but this quietly dating many guys thing isn't deceptive.

And technically, even being taken to dinner and a movie is a gift.


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## aston

HappyKaty said:


> What woman accepts gifts from a man on the FIRST date?
> 
> Furthermore, what man is desperate enough to lavish a woman with gifts on the FIRST date?


Ya think?! Many flashy / luxury car driven by an old (or middle aged) man always has a young looking woman who could pass for a daughter or grand daughter in the passenger seat. 
I'm yet to see a woman turn down gifts even on the first date. 

So yes there are many many (I'd dare to say most) womenwho will not turn down gifts on the first date.


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## HappyKaty

aston said:


> Ya think?! Many flashy / luxury car driven by an old (or middle aged) man always has a young looking woman who could pass for a daughter or grand daughter in the passenger seat.
> I'm yet to see a woman turn down gifts even on the first date.
> 
> So yes there are many many (I'd dare to say most) womenwho will not turn down gifts on the first date.


I don't doubt that, but the man is an idiot for offering, in the first place.


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## COGypsy

aston said:


> Ya think?! Many flashy / luxury car driven by an old (or middle aged) man always has a young looking woman who could pass for a daughter or grand daughter in the passenger seat.
> I'm yet to see a woman turn down gifts even on the first date.
> 
> So yes there are many many (I'd dare to say most) womenwho will not turn down gifts on the first date.


Oh come on now....what's a few diamonds between "friends"?? Shiny things are NEVER inappropriate, you know that!! 

:rofl:


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## aston

EnjoliWoman said:


> I totally get what you are saying and agree. But I'm a bit confused about the 'gifts'. Do you mean buying dinner or having sex? Just curious.
> 
> Personally I don't want to create a feeling of obligation and offer to get the tip or if it's a drink after work or a coffee before, I buy my own. I LOVE to be treated, but for that first casual meeting I prefer not accepting anything.


EnjoliWoman...you never cease to amaze me lol.Gifts can be buying dinner and/or having sex lol. If sex qualifies as a gifts....LOL.

I like a woman who handles her business whether it's the first date or 100th date. Thats what makes me want to go over and beyond. 

Not one who thinks she defaecates ice cream.


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## Cosmos

Faithful Wife said:


> It is standard dating advice for both men and women to assume the other is dating other people when you first meet.
> 
> I know my H and I were both seeing other people.
> 
> This does not necessarily mean having sex with other people but it might. It does mean neither of you are exclusive with anyone else, because that would mean you are actually cheating.
> 
> So you date and you continue to date others (not necessarily sleep with others) until some point where it becomes obvious that you want to be exclusive with this one person. Usually the man will bring it up first and ask for exclusivity, because once he decides he likes this one more than the others he will typically want to edge out all the other men in her life. If she likes him better than the others too, she will usually be happy to ditch the rest of them.
> 
> Then you enter exclusivity or the bf/gf stage and stop dating others.
> 
> I've never been asked on a date and assumed it meant the man was not dating others or that he expected me not to be either.


:iagree:


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## aston

HappyKaty said:


> I don't doubt that, but the man is an idiot for offering, in the first place.


No the man is not an idiot. The woman must have led him on to believe it's ok. Considering they must have talked on the phone or email for a long time to lead the man to believe she's worth doing that for. People don't just show up bearing gifts unless they have been given information (or led) to believe it's worth doing.

So no, that whole blissful ignorance to the affirmative over why a person bears gifts is something I never subscribed to. If he shows up with a saphire diamond necklace because you told him that was your favorite emerald (after finding out he's a millionaire), don't tell me he's an idiot and you "didn't know". Sorry not buying it lol:scratchhead:


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## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> What woman accepts gifts from a man on the FIRST date?
> 
> Furthermore, what man is desperate enough to lavish a woman with gifts on the FIRST date?


Did he buy you dinner? Did he pay for the movie? I'm not sure I've ever been on a completely free date and I know I've never been on a date where I didn't pay the bills. I'd like to think that she shows appreciation for my doing so by not having another guy lined up to do the same tomorrow.

Lavish gifts no... but gifts and affection none-the-less. To have several dates lined up seems to dismissive to me.

The whole thing just stinks. I don't like it, won't do it. And the thought of women doing this, definitely triggers some hostility for me (even though, to my knowledge, I've never dated a woman who has done so). Ugh... it totally makes me feel more dismissive toward women.

So no, I gotta say spare me these half-hearted dates. If she's really interested, she's excited about me and hoping our date goes awesome... not lining up the next guy.


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## COGypsy

aston said:


> No the man is not an idiot. The woman must have led him on to believe it's ok. Considering they must have talked on the phone or email for a long time to lead the man to believe she's worth doing that for. People don't jsut show up bearing gifts unless they have been given information (or led) to believe it's worth doing.
> 
> So no, that whole blissful ignorance to the affirmative over why a person bears gifts is something I never subscribed to. If he shows up with a saphire diamond necklace because you told him that was your favorite emerald (after finding out he's a millionaire), don't tell me he's an idiot and you "didn't know". Sorry not buying it lol:scratchhead:


I think that kind of scenario implies a different sort of relationship than what most of us encounter.....uh, ever. I don't think you're preaching to the sugarbabies.com crowd here. Just sayin'...


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## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Did he buy you dinner? Did he pay for the movie? I'm not sure I've ever been on a completely free date and I know I've never been on a date where I didn't pay the bills. I'd like to think that she shows appreciation for my doing so by not having another guy lined up to do the same tomorrow.


Every woman's different, obviously, but I prefer my first dates to be low key, such as coffee or a drink. I pick up my own tab. I'm not expecting a man I don't know to take me to Ruth's Chris on our first date.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> It is standard dating advice for both men and women to assume the other is dating other people when you first meet.


I gather so... I must have missed that memo. Hence I now address the issue directly by asking.

If other men are taking you out for romantic dinners. I'm sure as hell not going to.


----------



## HappyKaty

aston said:


> No the man is not an idiot. The woman must have led him on to believe it's ok. Considering they must have talked on the phone or email for a long time to lead the man to believe she's worth doing that for. People don't just show up bearing gifts unless they have been given information (or led) to believe it's worth doing.
> 
> So no, that whole blissful ignorance to the affirmative over why a person bears gifts is something I never subscribed to. If he shows up with a saphire diamond necklace because you told him that was your favorite emerald (after finding out he's a millionaire), don't tell me he's an idiot and you "didn't know". Sorry not buying it lol:scratchhead:


That's not a potential relationship. That's what we call a "sugar daddy".


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## Cosmos

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> It's just one of those things that really gets my goat.
> 
> It almost makes me twitch that many of my pickups are thought deceptive, but this quietly dating many guys thing isn't deceptive.
> 
> And technically, even being taken to dinner and a movie is a gift.


I agree. Which is why it's a good idea for the bill to, perhaps, be split two ways. Having said that, most men I've dated would've found this highly offensive, and I tended to reciprocate by inviting them to dinner or planning a very special picnic.


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## Faithful Wife

It was no problem for my husband. He was confident he would edge out all the competition, and he did.


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## aston

COGypsy said:


> I think that kind of scenario implies a different sort of relationship than what most of us encounter.....uh, ever. I don't think you're preaching to the sugarbabies.com crowd here. Just sayin'...


Oh I know, but even for non sugarbabies....how many of us know that whole date move where the woman feigns reaching for her purse when in actuality she's not. 

I've called out a few familiar girlfriends over this and any woman comfortable enough will admit they pull this move 

Pretend to "reach" for your wallet while knowing the guy will end up paying. It's like a good ole' Mexican Stand-Off. Once I kept rummaging through mine as well until she finally said "I don't have any change" I just laughed it off.

Just saying.....call a spade a spade.:rofl:


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

COGypsy said:


> So exactly what do your first dates look like? The Palm, a diamond tennis bracelet and a hotel room? I guess I don't understand the emotional investment that you're implying in someone whose last name you probably don't even know at that point....


lol no. But romantic gifts are romantic gifts... its not about the monetary value.

I'd like to know that the woman I'm taking to dinner tonight hasn't already committed to dinner with another man tomorrow.

The investment I'm implying is that one is actually considering a partner on their own merit, and with full interest, rather than the half-hearted interest you give to "just another guy on the list". Well, that was a really nice date... but who knows what bachelor #2 is gonna do tomorrow!?

NEXT! Now serving number 45... number 45 please step forward. God... if that's really how it is I'm going back to NSAs if my gf and I broke up.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> It was no problem for my husband. He was confident he would edge out all the competition, and he did.


No, I think you've misunderstood something critical in your desire to insult my confidence: I couldn't care less about edging out the competition for such women, because I don't even remotely want such women.


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## Faithful Wife

Of course you take it personally...lol!

Dvls, there's nothing wrong with your way, nothing at all. I have heard lots of people say the same thing. It just requires a short conversation about it..."are you seeing anyone?" is a yes or no answer. If the answer is yes, you move on.

Many people feel that way.

But it is an individual thing.

I have heard many women freak out when they realized a man they dated once is dating other women...to me I'm just like, well if you didn't ask him if he's dating others you should assume he is. (shrug)

I was completely honest with my H about my sitch and that included that I was seeing other people at the time we met.


----------



## HappyKaty

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> No, I think you've misunderstood something critical in your desire to insult my confidence: I couldn't care less about edging out the competition for such women, because I don't even remotely want such women.


Such women? 

Like we're some terrible breed of gold-digging wh0res? 

We're going on multiple first dates to find a decent man with whom we share common interests. I fail to see the scheming and betrayal.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

EnjoliWoman said:


> I totally get what you are saying and agree. But I'm a bit confused about the 'gifts'. Do you mean buying dinner or having sex? Just curious.
> 
> Personally I don't want to create a feeling of obligation and offer to get the tip or if it's a drink after work or a coffee before, I buy my own. I LOVE to be treated, but for that first casual meeting I prefer not accepting anything.


I was thinking buying dinner... and not from the creating an obligation perspective. Rather, that one should not accept gifts given in romantic pursuit from a man you're sooo interested in that you have 5 other alternatives already on the schedule. If you're that disinterested in him, why are you wasting his time and money? His efforts are the price of an audience with her majesty? I don't know why this bothers me, but it does.

Since that previous thread, I've also figured out why I strongly associate this with women and not men. Men typically pay for the dates. So a woman is more able to commonly schedule a bunch of dates with different guys in a week... no sweat off her back. A man doing the same is going to find it cost prohibitive pretty quickly unless these are cheap @ss dates. A couple weeks of doing this and you've got a small car payment.

Honestly, it has a slight smell of mooching... and just a lot of... carelessness.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

HappyKaty said:


> Such women?
> 
> Like we're some terrible breed of gold-digging wh0res?
> 
> We're going on multiple first dates to find a decent man with whom we share common interests. I fail to see the scheming and betrayal.


I understand that. I'm telling you how I feel about it. And I'm free to choose not to date women who schedule dates with many men like they're throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks.

Such women (which means "women engaging in the behavior I don't like") don't interest me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Here's a bit from Dr. Glover, author of No More Mr. Nice Guy:

A single guy writes:

“Based on the skills you teach, I can now get a number, set up a date, and perhaps a second date. But I am hesitant to take it any farther. Sounds really funny, but I feel as if I would be cheating or dishonest by going on dates with more than one woman. I also feel this is holding me back to make the next move. Any thought?”

Welcome to the Nice Guy Dating club!

Most of us are programed to not do anything that might upset a woman. We will put what a woman wants (or least what we think she wants) above what we want. We feel like we are doing something wrong if we do anything that might upset a woman or not give a woman what she wants.

I went through this when I started dating. It was a major struggle. I also realized that if it was so frightening for me to date (and sleep with) multiple women, I had to lean in and face the fear.

This is our own inner bull**** (that we can't do anything that might upset a woman). The only way to overcome it is to consciously lean into it. 

Paradoxically, trying to never do anything that might upset a woman kills all positive emotional tension. Setting the tone and doing what you want creates positive tension.

Women need emotional tension for attraction and attachment. I would rather have a woman mad at me then bored with me (even though deep down, I still have to soothe myself when a woman is mad at me). The tension keeps her attached. I've just learned to let a woman have her feelings while I hold on to myself and do what feels right to me.

Consciously holding on to yourself in this way is one of the most powerful stimulants for personal growth that I know of. Plus, it builds tension for the women making them more attached (even though they might be angry).

As long as you are acting with integrity and not creating any false illusions, you are not doing anything wrong by dating more than one woman at once. 

If a woman brings the issue up and you aren’t ready to commit to an exclusive relationship, tell her, “until we have a discussion about dating exclusively, assume that I am seeing other women.” Hold to this stance even if you aren’t currently dating anyone else. Don’t let a woman pressure you into making an exclusive commitment until you are ready to dive all the way in. When you are, talk about it with her and get all the way in.

Soothe yourself and keep leaning into your anxiety. This is the path to integrity, personal growth, and intensity with women!


----------



## badcompany

Dvls, it certainly does smell of mooching. In fact there was a couple of known gals in college that were stunners but were on a tight budget from family. Eating out and free drinks on some guys dime was the norm and I doubt anyone ever got to 1st base.
One of them was fairly quiet about it, but the other gal was overheard bragging to some friends "I never have to buy drinks at club _____, I'm hot".


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

badcompany said:


> Dvls, it certainly does smell of mooching. In fact there was a couple of known gals in college that were stunners but were on a tight budget from family. Eating out and free drinks on some guys dime was the norm and I doubt anyone ever got to 1st base.
> One of them was fairly quiet about it, but the other gal was overheard bragging to some friends "I never have to buy drinks at club _____, I'm hot".


To which the words "grow up" would immediately cross my mind.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> Of course you take it personally...lol!


How could that not be viewed as personal? "My husband has no problem with it because he's confident." You honestly don't see the insult that implies: that someone who does have a problem with it is not confident?

I'm as confident as it gets when it comes to this. I don't care who she is, if she does it, forget her I don't want her.



Faithful Wife said:


> It just requires a short conversation about it..."are you seeing anyone?" is a yes or no answer. If the answer is yes, you move on.


Yeah, I said that. Its been quite a revelation to me that so many women do this... accepting dates with every decent looking guy that asks and just slotting them where ever they can in the calendar. Since that thread, I ask that very question along with some subtle digging... because "seeing someone" seems to have all sorts of different definitions for women. 

Like I said, I didn't get the memo: Date everyone at once and just keep it on the down low.



Faithful Wife said:


> I was completely honest with my H about my sitch and that included that I was seeing other people at the time we met.


For that I give you kudos. That's the moment I would not longer be pursing a romantic interest in a woman. It would be "Well, if I'm single when you're done seeing other people we'll have to go out." iotw, I'm not going out with her.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Faithful Wife said:


> Here's a bit from Dr. Glover, author of No More Mr. Nice Guy:
> 
> A single guy writes:
> 
> “Based on the skills you teach, I can now get a number, set up a date, and perhaps a second date. But I am hesitant to take it any farther. Sounds really funny, but I feel as if I would be cheating or dishonest by going on dates with more than one woman. I also feel this is holding me back to make the next move. Any thought?”
> 
> Welcome to the Nice Guy Dating club!
> 
> Most of us are programed to not do anything that might upset a woman. We will put what a woman wants (or least what we think she wants) above what we want. We feel like we are doing something wrong if we do anything that might upset a woman or not give a woman what she wants.
> 
> I went through this when I started dating. It was a major struggle. I also realized that if it was so frightening for me to date (and sleep with) multiple women, I had to lean in and face the fear.
> 
> This is our own inner bull**** (that we can't do anything that might upset a woman). The only way to overcome it is to consciously lean into it.
> 
> Paradoxically, trying to never do anything that might upset a woman kills all positive emotional tension. Setting the tone and doing what you want creates positive tension.
> 
> Women need emotional tension for attraction and attachment. I would rather have a woman mad at me then bored with me (even though deep down, I still have to soothe myself when a woman is mad at me). The tension keeps her attached. I've just learned to let a woman have her feelings while I hold on to myself and do what feels right to me.
> 
> Consciously holding on to yourself in this way is one of the most powerful stimulants for personal growth that I know of. Plus, it builds tension for the women making them more attached (even though they might be angry).
> 
> As long as you are acting with integrity and not creating any false illusions, you are not doing anything wrong by dating more than one woman at once.
> 
> If a woman brings the issue up and you aren’t ready to commit to an exclusive relationship, tell her, “until we have a discussion about dating exclusively, assume that I am seeing other women.” Hold to this stance even if you aren’t currently dating anyone else. Don’t let a woman pressure you into making an exclusive commitment until you are ready to dive all the way in. When you are, talk about it with her and get all the way in.
> 
> Soothe yourself and keep leaning into your anxiety. This is the path to integrity, personal growth, and intensity with women!


Integrity is key. I still subscribe to the wisdom "don't do unto others ... "

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Faithful Wife

I think my husband actually enjoyed the challenge. He saw me as wife potential, but knew I wasn't ready for that when we met. I was still reeling from a separation and pending D, and I was on a fun multiple dating frenzy! Whoop!

I was happy to start dating him but I definitely made it clear I had no plans to become exclusive any time soon. He was fine with that and although he never confirmed it at the time, I think he had at least one FWB when we met.

After dating - oh maybe about 8 weeks or so I think it was - we began having stronger feelings for each other and neither of us wanted to see other people. We had the exclusivity talk, and the rest is history....I loved dating.


----------



## zillard

badcompany said:


> Dvls, it certainly does smell of mooching. In fact there was a couple of known gals in college that were stunners but were on a tight budget from family. Eating out and free drinks on some guys dime was the norm and I doubt anyone ever got to 1st base.
> One of them was fairly quiet about it, but the other gal was overheard bragging to some friends "I never have to buy drinks at club _____, I'm hot".


I see a huge difference between this and what HK is doing. 

Short meet and greets over coffee or a drink - why not have more than one a week?

I wouldn't expect a girl to cancel other coffees because she agreed to sit and have one with me (imo that's pretty arrogant). I don't even know if I want a refill yet. 

I don't want a woman to put me on a pedestal any more than I want her on one.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Being confident is one thing but given the prevalence of people giving it up so quickly, having sex on Saurday night with someone who just had sex with their Friday night date seems like quite another thing, lol.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Being confident is one thing but given the prevalence of people giving it up so quickly, having sex on Saurday night with someone who just had sex with their Friday night date seems like quite another thing, lol.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


Not to imply anybody here would do that but it is a disturbing possibility for some people.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Cosmos

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Being confident is one thing but given the prevalence of people giving it up so quickly, having sex on Saurday night with someone who just had sex with their Friday night date seems like quite another thing, lol.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


I can't imagine anything worse, JSGW. That's why exclusivity would be a must for me before sleeping with a guy.


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Being confident is one thing but given the prevalence of people giving it up so quickly, having sex on Saurday night with someone who just had sex with their Friday night date seems like quite another thing, lol.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


I absolutely agree. If there is sex involved, it's a whole different story.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Reminds me of a disturbing infidelity story posted here from a seemingly credible guy. Husband goes down on his wife and realizes that she doesn't taste the same ... there was still leakage from her OM who didn't wear protection. Don't know how true it is but ... gag! 

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Reminds me of a disturbing infidelity story posted here from a seemingly credible guy. Husband goes down on his wife and realizes that she doesn't taste the same ... there was still leakage from her OM who didn't wear protection. Don't know how true it is but ... gag!
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


THAT is the exception to the "never hit a woman" rule.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of a disturbing infidelity story posted here from a seemingly credible guy. Husband goes down on his wife and realizes that she doesn't taste the same ... there was still leakage from her OM who didn't wear protection. Don't know how true it is but ... gag!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is the exception to the "never hit a woman" rule.
Click to expand...

Lol ... well, I think I would be far too preoccupied running to the bathroom to puke to consider it.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> Here's a bit from Dr. Glover, author of No More Mr. Nice Guy:


That passage doesn't fit me all. I think we both know I'm not overly concerned with upsetting women. ;P

I'm dead serious when I say "*I* don't want that woman."

I date one at a time not because I'm worried some woman will get upset, rather, for me it used to be just what I thought was social norm. In fact, I never gave it any thought. If I wanted a date, I asked someone out and if I didn't like her I wouldn't go out with her anymore. I'd go ask someone else out. But always one at a time. When I discovered just how many people did all this scheduling of dates, I went and ask two girls out THAT weekend. Those dates were horrible... and rarely is any date I have any less than decent. Even if she's a bore I know ways to bring out the best of the situation. I always have good dates.

You know why I couldn't with two women scheduled back to back? Its the same freaking "get to know you" conversation held back to back! It's ton of additional details to remember! All of my dates go great because of how retain and use details, have a creative enthusiasm, play on our particular circumstances and create magic.

On the first date, I can only say that I wasn't committed to it. I knew I had a date the next night... what do I care about the outcome of this one? Not so much a conscious thought... more of a blah feeling. The same creativity and enthusiasm I normally show wasn't there. On the second, after having a date the prior night, I didn't have the will or interest to make magic. Both of them reminded me of the drab, plain, uninspired, disconnected dates that so many women have told me they hated. Those dates were terrible because I wasn't being me and they were nothing like dates with me usually are. I usually get freaking kudos for best first date evarrrrrr.

As for why women doing it bothers me... that's a lot more complicated. I don't really know. Maybe it is the illusion that women have this extra power in the process that I reject. One woman and a bunch of overt male suitors is norm; one man, many overt women suitors is less common. I won't be just one of the piece of meat chumps in the row while she pokes and pecks them all before making her choice any more than a woman generally wants to let a guy try her body out. I have an intense desire to be a chooser, not throw it all out and just hope to be chosen. My effort when single goes toward building up attraction from multiple women, but still I only date ONE at a time. 1 actively dating and a couple who are interested and remain in orbit/pursuit. Sometimes I never get to a girl in orbit and we just become friends. 

The women I date are pretty young... so I see a lot of young guys too. I think it bothers me that I perceive unbalance here. I know young guys can't afford to be taking several women a week out on dates... but these girls don't have to pay for anything. They can just mooch on their pursuers... that's the price a guy must pay for getting blessed with the *chance* of being chosen. That bothers me for some reason. That women can just sit back and wait to be asked out, line them all up on her schedule, take everything they give and make a pick, but any self-respecting man has to foot the bill for his advances. He must pay for an audience with the princess just to get in the line of suitors. 

Does that seem right to you? Weird that it bothers me as much as it does.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

zillard said:


> I see a huge difference between this and what HK is doing.
> 
> Short meet and greets over coffee or a drink - why not have more than one a week?
> 
> I wouldn't expect a girl to cancel other coffees because she agreed to sit and have one with me (imo that's pretty arrogant). I don't even know if I want a refill yet.
> 
> I don't want a woman to put me on a pedestal any more than I want her on one.


Please note, I'm speaking more generally... not about HK necessarily. I don't know the nature of her dates anyway and it was really for discussion. In the end, what other people choose to do in dating doesn't matter to me... nor do my standards matter to them.

I probably wouldn't call coffee meet & greets a date anyway. What I'm thinking is the prototype, "let me buy you dinner" date.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Just because you don't see one guy with many female suitors doesn't mean it isn't happening all the time. If you visit dating forums you will read all about the women who assumed they were exclusive just because he asked her out on ONE date...only to find out she was one of many. The forums advisors will always tell her, hey, you need to assume he is multi-dating and you need to multi-date, too.

The fact that you think women do this but men don't is odd.

The fact that you call a woman who does this a "princess" is also odd, since men do it, too.

The men aren't looking for a "chance to be chosen"...they are dating her to see if THEY want to choose HER for exclusivity.

Maybe you don't realize how many men poof into thin air and never call again after one date? Yet a woman is supposed to only accept dates from one man at a time? Even though after that one date he might never call again? She was supposed to turn down other dates for how long after that one date while she waits to see if he wants a 2nd date?

Whereas if she is multi-dating, she won't notice he never called for a 2nd date because she's already out with someone else...AND SO IS HE.


----------



## angelpixie

aston said:


> Thats why first and second dates should never be an elaborate dinner or expensive event and YES split the bill in half!
> If I'm just another option (even after communicating and being comfortable enough to meet for a first and/or second date) then I expect you to meet me half way.
> 
> Forget the whole "being a gentleman" thing.....PAY YOUR HALF of the date expenses. I often hear people talk about "he was a cheap date, he made me pay half of the bill"...guess what? I don't pay my friends bill when we meet up for food or drinks and since you don't even know if you'll want to ever see me again.....I sure as hell aren't paying yours :lol:.
> 
> Just saying......when in doubt...go dutch!


If I'm the one asking him out and I'm picking the place, I pay. If it's a mutual "Hey we should get together for coffee," we split. If he asks me out and he picks the place, he pays. We might not make the same amount of money. I should not be stressed about having to pay half the bill for a place he picks out, or vice versa.



aston said:


> Ya think?! Many flashy / luxury car driven by an old (or middle aged) man always has a young looking woman who could pass for a daughter or grand daughter in the passenger seat.
> I'm yet to see a woman turn down gifts even on the first date.
> 
> So yes there are many many (I'd dare to say most) womenwho will not turn down gifts on the first date.


Someone who brings me a gift on a first date would make me very uncomfortable. Even if we've been talking on the phone or emailing. When you're just meeting in person for the first time, it's inappropriate.



aston said:


> No the man is not an idiot. *The woman must have led him on to believe it's ok*. Considering they must have t*alked on the phone or email for a long time to lead the man to believe she's worth doing that for.* *People don't just show up bearing gifts unless they have been given information (or led) to believe it's worth doing.*
> 
> So no, that whole blissful ignorance to the affirmative over why a person bears gifts is something I never subscribed to. If he shows up with a saphire diamond necklace because you told him that was your favorite emerald (after finding out he's a millionaire), don't tell me he's an idiot and you "didn't know". Sorry not buying it lol:scratchhead:


Worth doing for what? If he thinks he needs to give her a necklace because she told him she likes them, even before they've met, he has issues he needs to deal with. He thinks he needs to buy affection. And that's not her fault. If, on the other hand, he thinks it's worth spending the money for a necklace because he's expecting a 'gift' in return, then he's a creep (unless she's in the business of getting paid to spend time with men). 
If a woman hints that she wants gifts like that, it's the man's choice whether or not to buy and give them. He could just as easily dismiss her as a gold-digger and call up someone else. I don't buy this whole "It's the other person's fault that I did this" crap. If he chooses to give a *gift*, presumably he expects nothing in return. That's what a gift is. So, no complaints allowed.



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Did he buy you dinner? Did he pay for the movie? I'm not sure I've ever been on a completely free date and I know I've never been on a date where I didn't pay the bills. I'd like to think that she shows appreciation for my doing so by not having another guy lined up to do the same tomorrow.
> 
> Lavish gifts no... but gifts and affection none-the-less. To have several dates lined up seems to dismissive to me.
> 
> The whole thing just stinks. I don't like it, won't do it. And the thought of women doing this, definitely triggers some hostility for me (even though, to my knowledge, I've never dated a woman who has done so). Ugh... *it totally makes me feel more dismissive toward women.*


Is that even possible?



aston said:


> Oh I know, but even for non sugarbabies....how many of us know that whole date move where the woman feigns reaching for her purse when in actuality she's not.
> 
> I've called out a few familiar girlfriends over this and any woman comfortable enough will admit they pull this move
> 
> Pretend to "reach" for your wallet while knowing the guy will end up paying. It's like a good ole' Mexican Stand-Off. Once I kept rummaging through mine as well until she finally said "I don't have any change" I just laughed it off.
> 
> Just saying.....call a spade a spade.:rofl:


I am truly offended. I have never reached for my wallet without the actual intention of paying. I have paid for dates, and I have pre-negotiated with a guy that if he's paying for one meal, I am paying for another, and I won't go forward until he agrees. 
Good thing, too, apparently. I'd hate to contribute to the further disparaging of an entire gender.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Reminds me of a disturbing infidelity story posted here from a seemingly credible guy. Husband goes down on his wife and realizes that she doesn't taste the same ... there was still leakage from her OM who didn't wear protection. Don't know how true it is but ... gag!
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


Ugh. Bleh!

You know, even if its not sex... she just kissed 3 other guys after getting dropped off at her doorstep this week... boy do I feel special now. See, I just don't understand how this stuff doesn't bother anyone. I might as well just be out looking for meaningless hookups.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Given the history in your marriage, that is weird coming from you. Didn't you go home to your wife after....cheating on her?


----------



## angelpixie

Faithful Wife said:


> Given the history in your marriage, that is weird coming from you. Didn't you go home to your wife after....cheating on her?



:smnotworthy::smnotworthy::smnotworthy: :smnotworthy:


----------



## badcompany

zillard said:


> I see a huge difference between this and what HK is doing.
> 
> Short meet and greets over coffee or a drink - why not have more than one a week?
> 
> I wouldn't expect a girl to cancel other coffees because she agreed to sit and have one with me (imo that's pretty arrogant). I don't even know if I want a refill yet.
> 
> I don't want a woman to put me on a pedestal any more than I want her on one.


I agree, coffee or something is fine.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

angelpixie said:


> Is that even possible?


I dunno... talk some more and I'll let you know. 

(I'm kidding... )



angelpixie said:


> I am truly offended. I have never reached for my wallet without the actual intention of paying.


Why are you offended if you don't do them? Do you think he's lying? I've known several women to pull the wallet trick... one even made a joke about it "Okay fine, you can pay... because I don't actually have any money anyway! [laughs]"

That sort of thinking is down right common of women in clubs and bars.

I'm not saying that women are intent on mooching... but the scattershot approach to dating certainly has a little smell to it. If women actually had to make the approaches and pay the bills I have a feeling they wouldn't be so thrilled about a date with every guy that comes along.


----------



## angelpixie

I'm offended because those statements were made in a way that would apply to all women. If that's not the way they were meant, then it would make sense to qualify them.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> Just because you don't see one guy with many female suitors doesn't mean it isn't happening all the time. If you visit dating forums you will read all about the women who assumed they were exclusive just because he asked her out on ONE date...only to find out she was one of many. The forums advisors will always tell her, hey, you need to assume he is multi-dating and you need to multi-date, too.
> 
> The fact that you think women do this but men don't is odd.
> 
> The fact that you call a woman who does this a "princess" is also odd, since men do it, too.


I can't say, I've been on one dating site, but it wasn't long and I never looked at the forum it had. Live interactions at singles locations work much better for me. If its prevalent among men, then I have the same negative view toward those men. I'm less inclined to think that men do this stacking of dates with multiple people because men typically pay the bills and that cost is going to rack up pretty quickly unless you're just having coffee.



Faithful Wife said:


> The men aren't looking for a "chance to be chosen"...they are dating her to see if THEY want to choose HER for exclusivity.


That's not how I'd characterize the average single male. These guys are excited just because they got A date. Exclusivity? From what? Their hand?



Faithful Wife said:


> Maybe you don't realize how many men poof into thin air and never call again after one date? Yet a woman is supposed to only accept dates from one man at a time? Even though after that one date he might never call again? She was supposed to turn down other dates for how long after that one date while she waits to see if he wants a 2nd date?
> 
> Whereas if she is multi-dating, she won't notice he never called for a 2nd date because she's already out with someone else...AND SO IS HE.


I'm not aware of men disappearing. I'd say that's pretty sh*tty too. I have an idea though... she can call him too. If she doesn't want to, then she's not interested is she? She can move on her happy little way.

My mom told me to always call a girl back the next day. She gave me a lot of ****ty advice, but this one sticks - even if its just to touch base and say you had a good time.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Dvls said: "I'm less inclined to think that men do this stacking of dates with multiple people because men typically pay the bills and that cost is going to rack up pretty quickly unless you're just having coffee."

That is why I copied the NMMNG thing. It shows clearly that they DO multi-date, and their forum is full of guys talking about doing just that.

Dvls said: "That's not how I'd characterize the average single male. These guys are excited just because they got A date."

Well then you seem to only know guys who don't get a lot of dates. That's your experience so I can understand why it seems odd that many guys DO multi-date. I'm sure the fact that you disrespect them for doing so doesn't hurt their feelers.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a bit from Dr. Glover, author of No More Mr. Nice Guy:
> 
> 
> 
> That passage doesn't fit me all. I think we both know I'm not overly concerned with upsetting women. ;P
> 
> I'm dead serious when I say "*I* don't want that woman."
> 
> I date one at a time not because I'm worried some woman will get upset, rather, for me it used to be just what I thought was social norm. In fact, I never gave it any thought. If I wanted a date, I asked someone out and if I didn't like her I wouldn't go out with her anymore. I'd go ask someone else out. But always one at a time. When I discovered just how many people did all this scheduling of dates, I went and ask two girls out THAT weekend. Those dates were horrible... and rarely is any date I have any less than decent. Even if she's a bore I know ways to bring out the best of the situation. I always have good dates.
> 
> You know why I couldn't with two women scheduled back to back? Its the same freaking "get to know you" conversation held back to back! It's ton of additional details to remember! All of my dates go great because of how retain and use details, have a creative enthusiasm, play on our particular circumstances and create magic.
> 
> On the first date, I can only say that I wasn't committed to it. I knew I had a date the next night... what do I care about the outcome of this one? Not so much a conscious thought... more of a blah feeling. The same creativity and enthusiasm I normally show wasn't there. On the second, after having a date the prior night, I didn't have the will or interest to make magic. Both of them reminded me of the drab, plain, uninspired, disconnected dates that so many women have told me they hated. Those dates were terrible because I wasn't being me and they were nothing like dates with me usually are. I usually get freaking kudos for best first date evarrrrrr.
> 
> As for why women doing it bothers me... that's a lot more complicated. I don't really know. Maybe it is the illusion that women have this extra power in the process that I reject. One woman and a bunch of overt male suitors is norm; one man, many overt women suitors is less common. I won't be just one of the piece of meat chumps in the row while she pokes and pecks them all before making her choice any more than a woman generally wants to let a guy try her body out. I have an intense desire to be a chooser, not throw it all out and just hope to be chosen. My effort when single goes toward building up attraction from multiple women, but still I only date ONE at a time. 1 actively dating and a couple who are interested and remain in orbit/pursuit. Sometimes I never get to a girl in orbit and we just become friends.
> 
> The women I date are pretty young... so I see a lot of young guys too. I think it bothers me that I perceive unbalance here. I know young guys can't afford to be taking several women a week out on dates... but these girls don't have to pay for anything. They can just mooch on their pursuers... that's the price a guy must pay for getting blessed with the *chance* of being chosen. That bothers me for some reason. That women can just sit back and wait to be asked out, line them all up on her schedule, take everything they give and make a pick, but any self-respecting man has to foot the bill for his advances. He must pay for an audience with the princess just to get in the line of suitors.
> 
> Does that seem right to you? Weird that it bothers me as much as it does.
Click to expand...

I do have some things to say about this ... but it will have to wait. I have a date with my 9 and 12 year old daughters tonight! Yes, they do expect me to pay and they are my princesses 

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I understand that. I'm telling you how I feel about it. And I'm free to choose not to date women who schedule dates with many men like they're throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks.
> 
> Such women (which means "women engaging in the behavior I don't like") don't interest me.


I second that!:iagree: A guy stands up for himself and expresses his position and he gets attacked! no wonder we're getting more wuss's than real men in todays society. Stand for what you believe in and make no apologies.
I'd rather disagree with a person and respect them than be agreeable and be a pushover.


----------



## aston

Faithful Wife said:


> Here's a bit from Dr. Glover, author of No More Mr. Nice Guy:
> 
> A single guy writes:
> 
> “Based on the skills you teach, I can now get a number, set up a date, and perhaps a second date. But I am hesitant to take it any farther. Sounds really funny, but I feel as if I would be cheating or dishonest by going on dates with more than one woman. I also feel this is holding me back to make the next move. Any thought?”
> 
> Welcome to the Nice Guy Dating club!
> 
> Most of us are programed to not do anything that might upset a woman. We will put what a woman wants (or least what we think she wants) above what we want. We feel like we are doing something wrong if we do anything that might upset a woman or not give a woman what she wants.
> 
> I went through this when I started dating. It was a major struggle. I also realized that if it was so frightening for me to date (and sleep with) multiple women, I had to lean in and face the fear.
> 
> This is our own inner bull**** (that we can't do anything that might upset a woman). The only way to overcome it is to consciously lean into it.
> 
> Paradoxically, trying to never do anything that might upset a woman kills all positive emotional tension. Setting the tone and doing what you want creates positive tension.
> 
> Women need emotional tension for attraction and attachment. I would rather have a woman mad at me then bored with me (even though deep down, I still have to soothe myself when a woman is mad at me). The tension keeps her attached. I've just learned to let a woman have her feelings while I hold on to myself and do what feels right to me.
> 
> Consciously holding on to yourself in this way is one of the most powerful stimulants for personal growth that I know of. Plus, it builds tension for the women making them more attached (even though they might be angry).
> 
> As long as you are acting with integrity and not creating any false illusions, you are not doing anything wrong by dating more than one woman at once.
> 
> If a woman brings the issue up and you aren’t ready to commit to an exclusive relationship, tell her, “until we have a discussion about dating exclusively, assume that I am seeing other women.” Hold to this stance even if you aren’t currently dating anyone else. Don’t let a woman pressure you into making an exclusive commitment until you are ready to dive all the way in. When you are, talk about it with her and get all the way in.
> 
> Soothe yourself and keep leaning into your anxiety. This is the path to integrity, personal growth, and intensity with women!


I had an earlier post about this. Guys back themselves into this corner for a reason. The reason being women are so quick to scream and play victim that we are now in a society where it's ok to be a feminazi but a guy speaks for the male point of view and he's automatically deemed sexist.

What's described above pertains to men who in an effort to be along the lines of political correctness and appear gentlemanly put themselves in that position. I don't go for that though....doesn't work for this hombre. LOL:lol:


----------



## Faithful Wife

"The reason being women are so quick to scream and play victim that we are now in a society where it's ok to be a feminazi but a guy speaks for the male point of view and he's automatically deemed sexist."

Where exactly was anyone attacked or accused of being sexist for not wanting to date more than one girl at a time? I'm pretty sure no one has said that anyone needs to believe differently.


----------



## Faithful Wife

All I can say is...among those who have had a lot of dating experience, it is normal and expected for both men and women to be multi-dating. Some don't, most do. Where is there any attack in that?


----------



## aston

badcompany said:


> Dvls, it certainly does smell of mooching. In fact there was a couple of known gals in college that were stunners but were on a tight budget from family. Eating out and free drinks on some guys dime was the norm and I doubt anyone ever got to 1st base.
> One of them was fairly quiet about it, but the other gal was overheard bragging to some friends "I never have to buy drinks at club _____, I'm hot".


I actually knew a girl on the cheerleading squad who plain said by senior year she hoped to be engaged and preparing to be a fulltime mom. Yes she was hot and all but why waste the money on college if all you're doing is looking for a husband? 
It's girls like that that end up severely taken advantage of. 

I recognize a gold digger or favor seeker when I meet one and believe me I make sure they keep digging until they're exhausted and leave to go find another mine lol. Not all women are this way but I have to say there's a disproportionately high amount that are. Many women I've encountered some of which won't even look at me twice suddenly do a 180 the minute they find out a thing or two about me on the material side. Sorry but the reality simply doesn't lie. People see you very differently the minute there's material gain attached. Suddenly you're the most attractive guy on the block.
Call me jaded but whatever lol :lol:


----------



## aston

dvlsadvc8 said:


> how could that not be viewed as personal? "my husband has no problem with it because he's confident." you honestly don't see the insult that implies: That someone who does have a problem with it is not confident?
> 
> I'm as confident as it gets when it comes to this. I don't care who she is, if she does it, forget her i don't want her.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, i said that. Its been quite a revelation to me that so many women do this... Accepting dates with every decent looking guy that asks and just slotting them where ever they can in the calendar. Since that thread, i ask that very question along with some subtle digging... Because "seeing someone" seems to have all sorts of different definitions for women.
> 
> Like i said, i didn't get the memo: Date everyone at once and just keep it on the down low.
> 
> 
> 
> For that i give you kudos. That's the moment i would not longer be pursing a romantic interest in a woman. It would be "well, if i'm single when you're done seeing other people we'll have to go out." iotw, i'm not going out with her.


amen


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## aston

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Integrity is key. I still subscribe to the wisdom "don't do unto others ... "
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


Amen


----------



## aston

Faithful Wife said:


> "The reason being women are so quick to scream and play victim that we are now in a society where it's ok to be a feminazi but a guy speaks for the male point of view and he's automatically deemed sexist."
> 
> Where exactly was anyone attacked or accused of being sexist for not wanting to date more than one girl at a time? I'm pretty sure no one has said that anyone needs to believe differently.


Correction - Implied


----------



## Faithful Wife

Thank you for the correction...but I don't even see it as implied.

I think it is cute for a guy to only want to date one woman at a time. 

I just don't think that means it is horrible for anyone who wants to multi-date.

If anything, it is those who choose to multi-date that are getting attacked.

Both are fine as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> Given the history in your marriage, that is weird coming from you. Didn't you go home to your wife after....cheating on her?


Yep. I made mistakes. I should have divorced years earlier. Sneaking around is not who I am. That was a period of time in which I was hurt and didn't care about anyone. It won't happen again because I will never tolerate half-assed interest again.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> Dvls said: "I'm less inclined to think that men do this stacking of dates with multiple people because men typically pay the bills and that cost is going to rack up pretty quickly unless you're just having coffee."
> 
> That is why I copied the NMMNG thing. It shows clearly that they DO multi-date, and their forum is full of guys talking about doing just that.


Yep, I'm sure the guys on the nmmng forums calendars are just totally booked. lol



Faithful Wife said:


> Dvls said: "That's not how I'd characterize the average single male. These guys are excited just because they got A date."
> 
> Well then you seem to only know guys who don't get a lot of dates. That's your experience so I can understand why it seems odd that many guys DO multi-date. I'm sure the fact that you disrespect them for doing so doesn't hurt their feelers.


No, I don't know many guys who get so many dates they need to schedule multiple women. I don't know why a guy who can easily get a date would even need to do so. Ive missed plenty of good opportunities to land a date... but its irrelevant to me because I know there are good opportunities to meet someone and get a date every single day. What need do I have to schedule them? I know a couple who have done the multi date thing online, but id hardly qualify these guys as having lots of dates... much less with women I would consider.

My desire and reasons to not date a multi-dater is disrespect to those who do it? lol They do what they want. I do what I want. That right there is a deal breaker for me and that woman can enjoy her other guys. regardless of how anyone else feels about it, I want none of her.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I do have some things to say about this ... but it will have to wait. I have a date with my 9 and 12 year old daughters tonight! Yes, they do expect me to pay and they are my princesses
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


lol I have my kiddos this weekend too. Hence Friday night on this forum. I'm home, gf can't stay the night w the kids here, and I'm insanely bored.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> All I can say is...among those who have had a lot of dating experience, it is normal and expected for both men and women to be multi-dating. Some don't, most do. Where is there any attack in that?


lol you crack me up fw. That right there is your prototype veiled attack. It implies I lack dating experience or don't get dates because I don't accept multi-dating. Its much more acceptable to others than I formerly realized, but its still not acceptable to me and I'm quite the serial dater. I find it pretty easy to land a date. If quality dates were hard to come by I might not be so picky. Regardless, subsequent discussions have informed me that its much more common for women than for men, and honestly not very common for either even though its accepted... for sheer lack of dates. People have standards.

Even some of the best looking women I know who are totally cool with seeing other people say they have rarely needed to schedule dates with multiple guys... because they simply don't accept that many dates. A ton of guys try, but very few of those are accepted.

Other examples of your veiled attacks are implying that I lack confidence because I don't want a multi-dater, and... one more... but I forget, don't care, and am too lazy to look it up. I expect nothing less from you. I give you props for being clever. 

Are my reasons for why I dont want to date someone who is dating other people an attack on those people? Why does multi dating need to be defended from my preference for women who don't do it? Cool thing... we all get to pick what we want, everyone elses opinion be damned. I'm happy for multi daters, I wouldn't want them to miss out on a single one of this plethora of dates they need to schedule. I just won't be one of those dates, and fortunately, I have options.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> That passage doesn't fit me all. I think we both know I'm not overly concerned with upsetting women. ;P
> 
> I'm dead serious when I say "*I* don't want that woman."
> 
> I date one at a time not because I'm worried some woman will get upset, rather, for me it used to be just what I thought was social norm. In fact, I never gave it any thought. If I wanted a date, I asked someone out and if I didn't like her I wouldn't go out with her anymore. I'd go ask someone else out. But always one at a time. When I discovered just how many people did all this scheduling of dates, I went and ask two girls out THAT weekend. Those dates were horrible... and rarely is any date I have any less than decent. Even if she's a bore I know ways to bring out the best of the situation. I always have good dates.
> 
> You know why I couldn't with two women scheduled back to back? Its the same freaking "get to know you" conversation held back to back! It's ton of additional details to remember! All of my dates go great because of how retain and use details, have a creative enthusiasm, play on our particular circumstances and create magic.
> 
> On the first date, I can only say that I wasn't committed to it. I knew I had a date the next night... what do I care about the outcome of this one? Not so much a conscious thought... more of a blah feeling. The same creativity and enthusiasm I normally show wasn't there. On the second, after having a date the prior night, I didn't have the will or interest to make magic. Both of them reminded me of the drab, plain, uninspired, disconnected dates that so many women have told me they hated. Those dates were terrible because I wasn't being me and they were nothing like dates with me usually are. I usually get freaking kudos for best first date evarrrrrr.
> 
> As for why women doing it bothers me... that's a lot more complicated. I don't really know. Maybe it is the illusion that women have this extra power in the process that I reject. One woman and a bunch of overt male suitors is norm; one man, many overt women suitors is less common. I won't be just one of the piece of meat chumps in the row while she pokes and pecks them all before making her choice any more than a woman generally wants to let a guy try her body out. I have an intense desire to be a chooser, not throw it all out and just hope to be chosen. My effort when single goes toward building up attraction from multiple women, but still I only date ONE at a time. 1 actively dating and a couple who are interested and remain in orbit/pursuit. Sometimes I never get to a girl in orbit and we just become friends.
> 
> The women I date are pretty young... so I see a lot of young guys too. I think it bothers me that I perceive unbalance here. I know young guys can't afford to be taking several women a week out on dates... but these girls don't have to pay for anything. They can just mooch on their pursuers... that's the price a guy must pay for getting blessed with the *chance* of being chosen. That bothers me for some reason. That women can just sit back and wait to be asked out, line them all up on her schedule, take everything they give and make a pick, but any self-respecting man has to foot the bill for his advances. He must pay for an audience with the princess just to get in the line of suitors.
> 
> Does that seem right to you? Weird that it bothers me as much as it does.


Ok, I get what you are saying about dating two different women back to back. For me a date is kind of a big deal. I do think it is easier for a woman, generally speaking, to collect dates than it is for a man and I might be just really happy that I got one. Why? Not out of any misogynistic preconceptions. I think it is entirely reasonable. For one it goes back to the old cultural concept that the man typically requests the date. It is probably true that women are more aggressive these days about that but I still think it generally holds true. Secondly, I think women are more cautious ... they are more likely to decline a request for a date than a man. Again, generally speaking. I am somewhat at a disadvantage here because I am a natural introvert. It has nothing to do with confidence although I know some people interpret it that way ... I'm just the quiet guy until I get to know somebody and that probably isn't going to change. I'm not usually going to request a date unless I already know that there is "something" about this person. That is probably why I never really dated ... every relationship I had I sort of "fell" into. It just happened because I was in a situation to get to know the person first. 

So all this adds up to women typically get more opportunities and the man who asks the most wins. Me ... I'd just be happy to get a date. I've already established an interest when I requested the date so that is the person I'm going to focus on. It's just the way I'm built. Who knows? I'm a lot older now so maybe it will be different but in that respect I don't think I've changed all that much. It does not mean there is anything wrong with people dating multiple people. The only conflict I would have really is when there is sex involved. I would not want to be dating a woman who is also having sex with other people. Again ... just the way I'm programmed. Some people are ok with that but I also view sex as more intimate than a lot of people do. It's kind of a big deal to me.

Now ... the whole inequity thing? You really need to get over that. First, whatever frustration or resentment you have about that does make your view come across as sexist and you may not even realize it. Second, whatever basis of truth there is to it, you aren't going to change. Culturally, yes men pay the tab. They requested the date so they pay the bill. Again ... generally speaking. I'm sure that plenty of women are more than willing to pay their share of the bill but the custom is that if the man asks the woman out, he should be willing to pay the bill. 

Now I completely understand the frustration with that. In my situation I am anticipating a divorce (completely different, long and tragic story) and that some point soon, within the next year, I will be available to date. I have worked through the finances at a high level and I recognize that I will most likely be completely strapped. I will not be able to afford to go out on weekly dates, even if I had the opportunity. Between living expenses, alimony, potential child support and other expenses ... like braces, dance lessons among other activities, school expenses for my kids ... I will barely have enough to live on. I went through a separation and took up an apartment for awhile a few years back. It is unbelievable how much money that cost me just to give me the basics. I will have to do some of it again. Washer/dryer, appliances, couch, tv ... all that stuff you don't even think about because you've taken it for granted all these years. Given all that, I might be able to swing a date once a month if that. There are only so many free activities I can take a date on. I would probably be better off saving what little is left over at the end of the month. Unless I go against my norm and hit the bars looking for the easy target for serial one-night stands, I am not going to be able to have the classic post divorce "wild period", lol. Not even sure I will be able to afford hitting the bars, for that matter, even if I wanted to.

To go along with that I contemplate the type of woman I am attracted to. No, not gold diggers. However, I live in an upper middle class neighborhood, nice cars, educated professionals. These are the people I live with, go to parent teacher conferences with ... and work with. I am attracted to bright women with interests and full lives. They are typically used to having enough disposable income to go to nice places on a regular basis ... and they do. Pulling out the coupons at the local Denny's on a first date is probably not going to go over well. I might even be a great guy who is worth getting to know ... but there are lots of great guys that they can go do fun things with. That doesn't mean they are after money or free dates ... I think most women will tell you that this stuff doesn't matter and they may believe that to be true and it is to an extent ... but let's be realistic here ... unless they already know me, these other guys are the better option in real life AND they are better able to create opportunities to get to know them. Might suck for me but there is nothing wrong with it. Now the lady that works at the local convenience store who smiles and chats with me might not have a problem with that and could be a lot of fun but chances are good that I am not going to have a lot in common with her that would be the basis for a successful long term relationship.

*Let's put it this way ... my wife will have far more opportunity to date, have sex and find her next relationship than I will for quite a long time.* Those nights when I have my girls and we are watching Toy Story 3 for the 100 zillionth time, she very well may be enjoying a nice evening out on the town with another man and possibly getting her toes curled later in my old bed. Those nights she has the girls, I am more likely to be figuring out how to buy groceries without going over my limit or trying to decide how to pay for next month's dance lessons for my girls ... or counting the grey hairs starting to pop up all over my head, lol.

So ... what can I do? I can get all upset and complain how unfair it all is. I can sit there and unfairly resent women who can go out on these dates (which btw both you and I would do too if the tables were turned) and the men who take them. I can also take a different approach ...

"Let go of the things that don't serve you."

It makes no sense to waste one bit of emotion on something I can't control. So ... I will just have to make do with things that I can control. I can be proactive and get myself out there ... maybe get involved in activities that don't cost a lot of money where I can get to know like-minded people. I like to volunteer ... I can get more involved in that. I've built homes for the poor in Mexico and the D.R. in the past and there are local groups who do similar things involving some very impressive people. I enjoy running, biking, etc. ... there are certainly many groups I can join dedicated to that. I can also focus on getting myself to where I need to be to be able to do the things I want. "Become the person you want to be and you will attract the kind of person you want in your life." It will take some time but I can work on me ... my living situation, my career, my education, my finances ... and get myself to a point where I am well situated to enjoy dating again and possibly find the next (and hopefully last) love of my life.


----------



## bravenewworld

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> lol you crack me up fw. That right there is your prototype veiled attack. It implies I lack dating experience or don't get dates because I don't accept multi-dating. Its much more acceptable to others than I formerly realized, but its still not acceptable to me and I'm quite the serial dater. I find it pretty easy to land a date. If quality dates were hard to come by I might not be so picky. Regardless, subsequent discussions have informed me that its much more common for women than for men, and honestly not very common for either even though its accepted... for sheer lack of dates. People have standards.
> 
> Even some of the best looking women I know who are totally cool with seeing other people say they have rarely needed to schedule dates with multiple guys... because they simply don't accept that many dates. A ton of guys try, but very few of those are accepted.
> 
> Other examples of your veiled attacks are implying that I lack confidence because I don't want a multi-dater, and... one more... but I forget, don't care, and am too lazy to look it up. I expect nothing less from you. I give you props for being clever.
> 
> Are my reasons for why I dont want to date someone who is dating other people an attack on those people? Why does multi dating need to be defended from my preference for women who don't do it? Cool thing... we all get to pick what we want, everyone elses opinion be damned. I'm happy for multi daters, I wouldn't want them to miss out on a single one of this plethora of dates they need to schedule. I just won't be one of those dates, and fortunately, I have options.


Perhaps this is not your intent, but this entire post is extremely patronizing. I have a fairly wide and diverse social circle and it's very common for people to date more than one person at a time when they are not in a monogamous relationship. 

I respect anyone's choice to only casually date "one on one" so to speak but you need to get off the high horse with all those subjective and silly statements like "even the best looking women I know don't schedule dates with multiple men" and that it's "not very common even though it's accepted, people have standards."


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## Cosmos

Faithful Wife said:


> "The reason being women are so quick to scream and play victim that we are now in a society where it's ok to be a feminazi but a guy speaks for the male point of view and he's automatically deemed sexist."
> 
> Where exactly was anyone attacked or accused of being sexist for not wanting to date more than one girl at a time? I'm pretty sure no one has said that anyone needs to believe differently.


And there you have it folks. The TAM equivalent of Godwin's Law has finally been invoked. ....


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## DvlsAdvc8

Whether you think it patronizing or not, its true. I asked several women I know who I expected to have the most date offers. There just aren't a ton of men that these women accept dates from. Most were cool with it, but they also said it doesn't happen much. Some admitted they liked having the guys compete for their attention. Egotastic.

The fact that some people do this doesn't bother me. They can do what they want. I won't date them, so they won't be doing this with me. Im not going to buy someone dinner knowing they've already accepted a date with someone else tomorrow. Its dismissive, even rude imo. I enjoy paying the way, so its not like I'm interested in changing the culture even if I could. But I do want to know that she's giving me the same priority I'm giving her. Otherwise, I'm not interested in romantic engagement with her and she'll just be another party friend and potential hookup.


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## Faithful Wife

Dvls said: "But I do want to know that she's giving me the same priority I'm giving her."

Upon asking a woman for a date, how would she know what "priority" you are giving her, and what exactly is that "priority"?


----------



## aston

Faithful Wife said:


> Dvls said: "But I do want to know that she's giving me the same priority I'm giving her."
> 
> Upon asking a woman for a date, how would she know what "priority" you are giving her, and what exactly is that "priority"?


My time is my most valuable asset and I will like to assume the same for her. So if she values your time (assuming you're communicated prior to setting a date) then yes she should be giving you the same level of priority you are affording her. Simple.


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## Faithful Wife

I do not understand what this means.

Do you mean that if you meet a nice girl and ask for her number, then call her later and ask her on a date, she is supposed to assume you are not dating anyone else? She is supposed to know that by accepting your date, it also means SHE is not dating anyone else?

What if you still have a FWB situation going on, meet a new girl you really like, get her number, call her for a date...she can't see you for another 3 weeks as she is out of town. Is she right to assume you would then completely stop seeing and having sex with the FWB during the 3 weeks just because you asked her on a date? If you did sneak in another F with the FWB during that 3 weeks, do you mean that you would need to disclose this to her?

Unless a conversation occurs where you can state what "giving you the same level of priority you are affording her" means, then how do you think she will know exactly what you are expecting from her? I don't even know what it means.

What if she likes you but still has an ex sniffing around her that she is maybe open to. Should she say "well I would like to go on a date with you but I have an ex who still calls me from time to time, nothing serious." Why would she owe you this, even if she did accept the date? Do you think she will assume that because you asked her on a date, you have NO other girls who are texting, calling and maybe having sex with you?

I don't get how you think this would be understood by her, just because you asked her out.

I've never assumed I was any priority at all when being asked on a date. I only assumed it meant this man wanted one date with me, nothing more. But being asked means he has interest in me. Interest on what level or for what reason, I don't know until we talk more. I have been asked on dates by married men and men with girlfriends. Unless you ask them "are you married or do you have a girlfriend" they sometimes don't bother telling you this until you are actually ON the date. 

So because of stuff like that...I don't see how you expect any woman to know that by asking her on ONE date, you have made any kind of priority out of her. HOW would she know?


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## Cosmos

Faithful Wife said:


> I've never assumed I was any priority at all when being asked on a date. I only assumed it meant this man wanted one date with me, nothing more. But being asked means he has interest in me. Interest on what level or for what reason, I don't know until we talk more. I have been asked on dates by married men and men with girlfriends. Unless you ask them "are you married or do you have a girlfriend" they sometimes don't bother telling you this until you are actually ON the date.


:iagree:

This could be almost likened to arranging a job interview, then getting hacked off because you find out the prospective employer is interviewing others (or, conversely, the interviewee is attending other interviews).


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Cosmos said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never assumed I was any priority at all when being asked on a date. I only assumed it meant this man wanted one date with me, nothing more. But being asked means he has interest in me. Interest on what level or for what reason, I don't know until we talk more. I have been asked on dates by married men and men with girlfriends. Unless you ask them "are you married or do you have a girlfriend" they sometimes don't bother telling you this until you are actually ON the date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This could be almost likened to arranging a job interview, then getting hacked off because you find out the prospective employer is interviewing others (or, conversely, the interviewee is attending other interviews).
Click to expand...

So if somebody accepts my job offer (sex) the day after they accept somebody else's job offer, do I win? 

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Pbartender

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> So if somebody accepts my job offer (sex) the day after they accept somebody else's job offer, do I win?


Perhaps they had more than one... **AHEM!** ...position... ...open.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Faithful Wife said:


> I've never assumed I was any priority at all when being asked on a date. I only assumed it meant this man wanted one date with me, nothing more. But being asked means he has interest in me. Interest on what level or for what reason, I don't know until we talk more. I have been asked on dates by married men and men with girlfriends. Unless you ask them "are you married or do you have a girlfriend" they sometimes don't bother telling you this until you are actually ON the date.


This seems foreign to me. If I'm asked to do something that sounds like a date, the first thing I'm likely to tell them is I'm seeing someone (dating), have a girlfriend, or I'm married. I would be less than fair or honest if I didn't. By seeing someone I mean I've gone out on at least one date, there appears to be mutual interest and I've planned another date ... and yes there is a good chance I'll sleep with them if I haven't already. I don't have a problem going on a first date if I've already planned to go on a first date with somebody else.

I am also not going to ask somebody on a date if I'm seeing someone, have a girlfriend or married. While I would accept a date even if I already have a first date planned, I probably wouldn't ask somebody for a date if I've already planned one. Since women don't do the asking as frequently, I probably would not find myselfin the situation of dating more than one person at a time.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho

I do think men and women ... generally speaking ... are going to look at this differently. 

Women spend their whole lives getting stared at and hit on. There is a great deal more opportunity to be dating multiple people. They don't have to do the asking to get dates. To intentionally sound sexist, they simply need a vagina ... and be approachable with a reasonable body type ... to attract attention. Women do like sex as much as men but I would guess ...with exceptions ... that getting laid is not their primary motivation even if they are thinking about it. They aren't usually competing either ... they are being competed for. Dating multiple people may not naturally seem like all that big a deal.

I know there are guys out there that have the 'oh my' factor and also attract attention. However, a normal looking guy isn't going to attract the attention that a normal woman would. They don't get hit on or stared at or asked out constantly. They normally have to do the asking and they get turned down far more often. They have to compete more than they are competed for and they are competing against every guy who stares her up and down every day. Getting a date may feel like a win, take it seriously and may make the mistake of assuming it is just as big a deal for her ... except that he did the asking, all she had to do was accept. He already has more skin in the game. He may want to feel like she's already really interested in him and wouldn't like the idea that he's only one of several guys she's going out with and he's competing with. The alphas accept that challenge. The alphas win. Now some guys may accumulate multiple dating partners but it happens more organically. Other guys are players who play the game very well but their primary motivation is getting laid and not looking for their soul mate. If they happen to find their soul mate in the process then it is by chance.

I think motive is different. Men may have multiple dating partners but that is usually motivated by increasing their chances of having sex. Women may have multiple dating partners but that may be primarily motivated by finding the right guy ... shopping. Men who aren't likely ti have multiple dating partners may be incorrectly transferring that male view on women and assuming that the woman's motivation to date multiple people at the same time is to increase their odds of having sex instead of simply shopping for the right guy. Guys may want to have sex with a skank but they don't want to date them. Different perspectives. 


I don't know how online dating changes things ... it didn't exist when I was single ... but I do imagine it makes it easier to find multiple dating partners.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> Dvls said: "But I do want to know that she's giving me the same priority I'm giving her."
> 
> Upon asking a woman for a date, how would she know what "priority" you are giving her, and what exactly is that "priority"?


Its not as vague as you're letting on. If I've been talking to someone and have judged that I want to romantically pursue her, as opposed to just a hookup or taking whatever happens, then I want to know that she's not doing the same concurrently with other people.

The nature of a romantic pursuit, as opposed to casual get together and not caring, is entirely different. The ways I and many others express romantic interest are totally different than expressions of casual interest. I wouldn't have even asked her on such a date if I hadn't felt a strong connection there, and perceived her as feeling the same.

Perhaps what you all are referring to dates is different from what I consider a date. I don't consider every casual get together with a member of the opposite sex a date. 

To me, a date is quite a bit more personal and a greater degree of interest and care should be expressed. Its perhaps more formal (not quite the right word), in that its not just a "hey you wanna hang out and have coffee?" I hang out casually with quite a few women I'm not romantically interested in... and the character of the interactions is entirely different. 

I don't think one should pursue romance by going out with guys as if they're dime a dozen - and so dismissively accepting their gifts, even if its just dinner. I'm giving my sole attention and behaving in such a way to express my intimate interest... and I'd like to know that when someone takes that interest, they're not doing so as though I'm just another random face on their schedule. I consider it rude to be accepting dates from other men after accepting one with me. If she wants to go date him, she won't be dating me.

I won't be just another guy in a woman's ego gratifying multi-pursuits. "Oh, Johnny is so cute and he bought me flowers... but Billy and I get along so well and he just 'gets me'".

In contrast to the equal opportunity women are expressing here, I hear women regularly rant about guys pursuing multiple women, feeling burned when his interest was only passing and he was saying all the same sweet talk to 10 other women. Can this not be viewed in the same way? You've got multiple guys who may be in the process of gathering up emotion and trying to impress you. You intentionally want to accept the romantic gestures of multiple men. There's no sense of courtesy to at least be done with one before accepting the gifts of the next? No, let's cake eat! I'm special! All these men are competing for me! *glow* Then bish when about men being dogs for doing the male equivalent. 

That road is likely to be a mess imo. I get sex on the first date most of the time and I'm supposed to believe sex isn't happening on her other dates? lol I'm supposed to believe that the woman I'm being sweet to out of genuine romantic interest didn't have some other guy's d in her mouth from last night's date? You want to wonder about these things? Nope. If she wants a date with me, she can take a risk and sacrifice her precious schedule. Otherwise, she's just another meaningless casual whatever and I won't care a hill of beans who is buying her dinner, nibbling on her ear, making out or jumping into her paints tomorrow.

My preferences are my preferences. It wasn't my intention to have this debate all over again - it was done ad nauseam in the other thread. Its not like anyone is going to change their minds. 

Honestly, are dates so difficult to obtain that its critical to accept as many as possible and get them all on the schedule for fear of missing one? If they are so plentiful, why would they need to be scheduled? If its a matter of having to passively wait for dates, where you might get 3 offers in a week and none the next two weeks, why not put that equal opportunity crap to good use and *gasp* ... ask HIM out?

I think women instinctively recognize that this is not quite kosher, but don't want to admit it, or give up their being the courted princess... and that's why most take such issue with the guy that lands a date with them only to hit on someone else and land a date minutes later... even while defending multi-dating.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Faithful Wife said:


> What if you still have a FWB situation going on, meet a new girl you really like, get her number, call her for a date...she can't see you for another 3 weeks as she is out of town. Is she right to assume you would then completely stop seeing and having sex with the FWB during the 3 weeks just because you asked her on a date? If you did sneak in another F with the FWB during that 3 weeks, do you mean that you would need to disclose this to her?


Every FWB I've ever had stipulates that once you're pursuing someone else, the FWB ends. So yeah, no FWB during those 3 weeks. You're pursuing someone. Can you imagine the potential for disastrous outcomes here? Imagine you have the FWB in the interim. Then imagine dating that person and eventually marrying them. How many people want to think "Oh yeah, I met my future hubby, he asked me out, then F'd his FWB and we went on a date." Serious? No... the FWB ends when you meet someone pursuit worthy period. Its not when "Oh, the dating is getting serious now... I can't do this FWB thing anymore." 

"Oh darling, don't you remember our early dating when you still had that FWB? That was so sweet." That's a mess.



Faithful Wife said:


> Unless a conversation occurs where you can state what "giving you the same level of priority you are affording her" means, then how do you think she will know exactly what you are expecting from her? I don't even know what it means.


Only because you assume everyone is dating 5 people. In my world its pretty simple. I'm dating her only, and she is dating me only. That's it, if it doesn't go anywhere, then you move on. But you don't run around acting romantic with 5 people.



Faithful Wife said:


> What if she likes you but still has an ex sniffing around her that she is maybe open to. Should she say "well I would like to go on a date with you but I have an ex who still calls me from time to time, nothing serious." Why would she owe you this, even if she did accept the date? Do you think she will assume that because you asked her on a date, you have NO other girls who are texting, calling and maybe having sex with you?


Uh yeah... if she's still talking to her ex, I want none of her. And yeah, she can assume that if I've asked her on a date there are no other women I'm romantically pursuing. That doesn't mean I don't have female friends, or women who would LIKE a date with me who aren't getting one... and THAT I expect no different on her end.

It all boils down to this, if I know or find out she's dating other guys... that's the end of that. She's well within her right to think its acceptable. I don't want someone who thinks its acceptable... so see how that works?

Its not a matter of letting her know.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> That road is likely to be a mess imo. *I get sex on the first date most of the time and I'm supposed to believe sex isn't happening on her other dates? lol I'm supposed to believe that the woman I'm being sweet to out of genuine romantic interest didn't have some other guy's d in her mouth from last night's date? You want to wonder about these things?* Nope. If she wants a date with me, she can take a risk and sacrifice her precious schedule. Otherwise, she's just another meaningless casual whatever and I won't care a hill of beans who is buying her dinner, nibbling on her ear, making out or jumping into her paints tomorrow.
> 
> My preferences are my preferences. It wasn't my intention to have this debate all over again - it was done ad nauseam in the other thread. Its not like anyone is going to change their minds.
> .


THIS is why you shouldnt have sex on a first date!


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

FrenchFry said:


> The voice mails were awesome though.


Or... you're on a date, her phone is sitting on the table and ding... a text or two from the other guy(s) she's seeing pop up. She's a lady though, so she ignores it, until they continue and she has to tell the guy she's busy.

Awkward at the least. On the plus side, it successfully kills any personal interest I had in her.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

3Xnocharm said:


> THIS is why you shouldnt have sex on a first date!


Ha... no... this is one of several reasons I don't date a girl who is seeing other people. I don't care when sex happens or who she's having it with. But I do consider accepting a date with me an implicit declaration that she's NOT actively dating or screwing someone else. I used to sort of intuit my way to this conclusion from the feeling behind our interaction, but now I ask. I personally don't want to have a memory one day of my wife... where I can think "ah yeah, I remember that other girl I hooked up with after our first date." or even "Yeah, I was dating a couple girls when my wife and I went on our first date. I was really into this other one but she chose this other dude she was seeing too... so my wife just was really my #2 preference." Ugh. There's all sorts of emotional garbage that comes along when you start crossing up these early interactions. Maybe its a reasonable way of dating, but I personally don't want memories like that. Consider it one last bit of romanticism I have. Simply Amorous will be pleased to hear I have any. lol

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've always assumed that if you've accepted a romantic date, as opposed to causally hanging out with someone, then you're not having sex with someone else... and that you won't be kept on the line while the probability of having it with someone else is high.

First date with me on Friday, lots of chemistry but maybe we don't have sex... but unbeknownst to me, she's also been on a couple dates with Mike. She sees him tomorrow and they hook up. So I just bought dinner for the woman Mike is f-ing. Joy.

Screw that noise.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

3Xnocharm said:


> DvlsAdvc8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That road is likely to be a mess imo. *I get sex on the first date most of the time and I'm supposed to believe sex isn't happening on her other dates? lol I'm supposed to believe that the woman I'm being sweet to out of genuine romantic interest didn't have some other guy's d in her mouth from last night's date? You want to wonder about these things?* Nope. If she wants a date with me, she can take a risk and sacrifice her precious schedule. Otherwise, she's just another meaningless casual whatever and I won't care a hill of beans who is buying her dinner, nibbling on her ear, making out or jumping into her paints tomorrow.
> 
> My preferences are my preferences. It wasn't my intention to have this debate all over again - it was done ad nauseam in the other thread. Its not like anyone is going to change their minds.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> THIS is why you shouldnt have sex on a first date!
Click to expand...

Right, if you are pulling off the panties of every girl you go out with on the very first date then why should they treat it any less casually?

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Ha... no...
> First date with me on Friday, lots of chemistry but maybe we don't have sex... but unbeknownst to me, she's also been on a couple dates with Mike. She sees him tomorrow and they hook up. So I just bought dinner for the woman Mike is f-ing. Joy.
> 
> Screw that noise.


and you're in line should Mike become old news? Reminds me of messages I'll get out of the blue once in a while from someone I may have tried dating who tried to pull that move.


----------



## Cosmos

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've always assumed that if you've accepted a romantic date, as opposed to causally hanging out with someone, then you're not having sex with someone else... and that you won't be kept on the line while the probability of having it with someone else is high.


If I accepted a date from someone, it would be an absolute given that I wasn't having sex with someone else.



> I get sex on the first date most of the time and I'm supposed to believe sex isn't happening on her other dates?


Hence your indignation at women dating several men simultaneously. You are judging from your personal style of dating. For many of us, sex on a first date is out of the question - as are men who are in the habit of first date / casual sex.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Right, if you are pulling off the panties of every girl you go out with on the very first date then why should they treat it any less casually?


I don't expect them to. I only demand that they don't already have guys queuing up. If I know she does, I wouldn't be on the date in the first place... much less having sex with her.

Its a hard point to make, but its not about the sex and more about the concurrent engagement with others. I've had plenty of casual sex... who knows what they did the night before or the night after... but I don't care, because I'm not dating them or showing romantic interest. Follow?

If you're exploring heart to heart connections with someone, I don't think you just run around trying to plug in to 5 people at the same time. You try one, and move on before trying the next. You don't have them all scheduled and flip flop.

So understand its not about first date sex or your typical person's issue with sleeping around. Its simply a desire to not be one of many concurrently being pursued. I consider the date to be a declaration that, of the many pursuers, I've chosen her and she's chosen me to try things out. Others may still be pursuing, but there are no existing date plans... nor are others made while you're seeing where it goes.

Taking the example girl who hooked up with "Mike", I have no issue if she hooked up with him before me, and explicitly broke it off with him before accepting my date (or immediately thereafter). One ends before the other begins... they are not run concurrently. Otherwise, in dating her, I have to believe that she's up for a F with Mike potentially at any time... and I'm not going to open up emotionally to someone keeping those concurrent doors open. Sex certainly amplifies the icky factor of it for some people, but the making out, kissing, emotional connection building... its all the same to me. I don't want someone who is doing these things with someone else while claiming to want to do the same with me.

I want someone with that additional... for lack of a better word... tact? Someone who dates me and tells me they don't want to keep seeing me before they date someone else. I think letting a guy buy you dinner etc, while you're already planning to gobble up the same from another guy tomorrow, shows a lack of class. I don't want someone who accepts dates with other men and still has full intention of stringing me (or them) along. I won't go back and forth with other guys dating the same woman.

Honestly, and I don't intend it to be insulting to those who multi-date, but I consider accepting one date at a time to be a class act. I think it reflects more genuine intentions and heightened interest (harder to get excited about someone when you're splitting your interest 5 ways). Others will say I lack class in having sex on the first date... to each his/her own.

That's how I feel about it. I don't want the woman that is playing 5 guys so she can try them all out in a nice scheduled fashion. The notion really irritates me, but others are totally free to do their own thing.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Cosmos said:


> If I accepted a date from someone, it would be an absolute given that I wasn't having sex with someone else.
> 
> Hence your indignation at women dating several men simultaneously. You are judging from your personal style of dating. For many of us, sex on a first date is out of the question - as are men who are in the habit of first date / casual sex.


Yep... but I rarely if ever make a sexual move on the first date. I do spend a lot of time building up that tension, but because I enjoy that tension and honestly I think sex is better for having it. While I actually prefer keeping that going for a little while longer, I'm not going to reject a sexual move if she makes it... and that's the vast majority of my first date sex. I set the table, she caves in for a bite. If she doesn't, I generally don't make a move for 2-3 dates, or a week or so... whichever comes first.

Its not so much an issue with casual sex, I've had such casual pursuits and they aren't the same as full blown dating. I have an expectation when I'm pursing someone in this manner, that she's not already having sex with others... or even emotionally engaging others. Its one on one, see if we fit, if we don't... move on. But I'm not looking over my shoulder nor feeling the need to be something other than myself in some faux subjective competition with the 5 other guys she's seeing as if she is some kind of trophy to be won.

I don't want those trophies.

Its rightfully not even a competition anyway... as she just picks whatever she happens to want... there's not much competitive about it between the guys. I think its a mistake for a guy to cater to what a woman wants, to mold himself into what she seems to want, in an effort to out compete other guys - and I think she's going to be disappointed in the long run if that's how she bases her choice.


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Taking the example girl who hooked up with "Mike", I have no issue if she hooked up with him before me, and explicitly broke it off with him before accepting my date (or immediately thereafter). One ends before the other begins... they are not run concurrently. Otherwise, in dating her, I have to believe that she's up for a F with Mike potentially at any time... and I'm not going to open up emotionally to someone keeping those concurrent doors open.


and does Mike know she's out having dinner with you? :lol:


----------



## Faithful Wife

I loved multi-dating. If I was ever single again, I would definitely go that route. But I am also a shameless sl*t so, there ya go.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

aston said:


> and does Mike know she's out having dinner with you? :lol:


Of course not! For the majority, its very hush hush and "he has no right to know", because they're not "close" yet.

Others, and much respect to them, admit it... and I happily show them the door and slap 'em on the @ss to get them started toward it - or consider them as little more than a casual opportunity.

Multi-dating instantaneously shuts off my emotional interest in a woman.


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Of course not! For the majority, its very hush hush and "he has no right to know", because they're not "close" yet.
> 
> Multi-dating instantaneously shuts off my emotional interest in a woman.


I just wondered if this was about a guy going on multiple dates with multiple women what the tone of the conversation would be.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

aston said:


> and you're in line should Mike become old news? Reminds me of messages I'll get out of the blue once in a while from someone I may have tried dating who tried to pull that move.


To me its just spoiled princess bs.

Its the ego affirmation of having a bunch of guys bending over backwards to impress them and being able to just sit back and soak it all up while feeling like this wildly desired thing men would love to have.

Yeah, no wonder some women love multi-dating.


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> To me its just spoiled princess bs.
> 
> Its the ego affirmation of having a bunch of guys bending over backwards to impress them and being able to just sit back and soak it all up while feeling like this wildly desired thing men would love to have.
> 
> Yeah, no wonder some women love multi-dating.


I think it's just the assumption that there may be someone better just around the corner and keeping those options open. But the deceptious manner in which it's done while playing the victim / prey role is what make it come across in an off putting way.


----------



## Cosmos

aston said:


> I just wondered if this was about a guy going on multiple dates with multiple women what the tone of the conversation would be.


My responses would be exactly the same, Aston. Until there's an agreement to exclusivity, one can assume that the other person is dating others.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

aston said:


> I just wondered if this was about a guy going on multiple dates with multiple women what the tone of the conversation would be.


Don't wonder... I've brought it up in real conversations, out of context. A few are cool with it, others think a guy doing it is a jerk.

What's telling is when I've given it context first - women doing it. When approached from the perspective of women doing this first, nearly everyone is cool with it... subsequently most are cool with the guy doing it. The "jerk" opinion vanishes.

To my view this smacks of, "I don't really like when he does it, but I enjoy doing it, so I'm going to justify it and claim equal footing."

My own gf says she'd be totally put off by a guy who asked out another girl while having a date already set with her. Her perspective being that she doesn't want a guy who is playing all his options. She wants to be the one girl he's pursuing because she's worth it. She says the guy doing this looks like he's just starting as many things as possible to up his chances of getting laid. The numbers game is lame.

See, I knew I really liked this girl for a reason.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Yep, I loved having a bunch of guys bending over backwards to impress me, spending money on me, and I just sat back and soaked it all up while I felt like this wildly desired thing men would love to have.

Thanks for the description! It is perfect!

Me = Princess Multi-Dater! My suitors all fell to the One Man With Enough Of What it Takes...my Sex God husband. 

And I'm living happily ever after now. Now I multi-date my husband's multiple personalities. The fireman, the UFC fighter, the DILF next door...the list goes on.


----------



## aston

Cosmos said:


> My responses would be exactly the same, Aston. Until there's an agreement to exclusivity, one can assume that the other person is dating others.


:scratchhead:


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Don't wonder... I've brought it up in real conversations, out of context. A few are cool with it, others think a guy doing it is a jerk.
> 
> What's telling is when I've given it context first - women doing it. When approached from the perspective of women doing this first, nearly everyone is cool with it... and most are cool with the guy doing it.
> 
> To my view this smacks of, "I don't really like when he does it, but I enjoy doing it, so I'm going to justify it and claim equal footing."


:iagree: nuff said


----------



## aston

Faithful Wife said:


> Yep, I loved having a bunch of guys bending over backwards to impress me, spending money on me, and I just sat back and soaked it all up while I felt like this wildly desired thing men would love to have.
> 
> Thanks for the description! It is perfect!
> 
> Me = Princess Multi-Dater! My suitors all fell to the One Man With Enough Of What it Takes...my Sex God husband.
> 
> And I'm living happily ever after now. Now I multi-date my husband's multiple personalities. The fireman, the UFC fighter, the DILF next door...the list goes on.


Happily ever after always works


----------



## Cosmos

aston said:


> I think it's just the assumption that there may be someone better just around the corner and keeping those options open. But the deceptious manner in which it's done while playing the victim / prey role is what make it come across in an off putting way.


Victim / prey / deception? Where is this coming from? The only victims I'm seeing here are guys who think they should have exclusive rights on a woman after (or before) one date and feeling somehow deceived when this isn't the case.


----------



## aston

Cosmos said:


> Victim / prey / deception? Where is this coming from? The only victims I'm seeing here are guys who think they should have exclusive rights on a woman after (or before) one date and feeling somehow deceived when this isn't the case.


I went on a date last night and she explained her last relationship as "growing apart....we grew apart". Which resulted in her developing feelings for someone else cnd cheated on him. But somehow it was his fault cause he traveled alot (to support them and their plans to get married etc) and didn't pay her attention. 

Somehow she's the "victim". In other words she got cold feet, cheated on him with a guy she's no longer with by the way and somehow within that whole spectrum she's the victim LOL. It's laughable...:rofl:
I couldn't help but think about this thread while on the date.


----------



## Cosmos

aston said:


> I went on a date last night and she explained her last relationship as "growing apart....we grew apart". Which resulted in her developing feelings for someone else cnd cheated on him. But somehow it was his fault cause he traveled alot (to support them and their plans to get married etc) and didn't pay her attention.
> 
> Somehow she's the "victim". In other words she got cold feet, cheated on him with a guy she's no longer with by the way and somehow within that whole spectrum she's the victim LOL. It's laughable...:rofl:
> I couldn't help but think about this thread while on the date.


No, she's not a victim. She's a cheat and her BF is well rid of her!

I was in a sexless marriage and had the opportunity and temptation to cheat. I chose the honourable option and divorced rather than cheating.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Cosmos said:


> Victim / prey / deception? Where is this coming from? The only victims I'm seeing here are guys who think they should have exclusive rights on a woman after (or before) one date and feeling somehow deceived when this isn't the case.


Who's a victim? That chick isn't getting a date with me. We're all good.

I ask. If she's up front about seeing other people (which has only been once since I started asking), I told her outright "that's too bad... we'd have had a lot of fun." She still angled for the date saying "it wasn't serious" and I said "Yeah, well, if I'm single when you're done seeing other people maybe we can go out." That's it and I moved on. For the rest who keep it quiet - I haven't met any other than the first girl who caused me to initiated this discussion with people. But according to sources its just rampant... a "norm". So maybe women are just lying. Of course, if it happened and I found out they're going on dates with other guys... I would just call 'em up and tell em I'm just not interested in them anymore. 

They can get their multi-date worship from somebody with less self-respect who'll tolerate being just one of several men vying for a turn at having her attention and the "opportunity" to buy her dinner.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Cosmos said:


> I was in a sexless marriage and had the opportunity and temptation to cheat. I chose the honourable option and divorced rather than cheating.


Well done. Much respect. I wish I had gone that route.. at the very least it would have saved me several years and a lot of grief.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Ha... no... this is one of several reasons I don't date a girl who is seeing other people. I don't care when sex happens or who she's having it with.* But I do consider accepting a date with me an implicit declaration that she's NOT actively dating or screwing someone else. I used to sort of intuit my way to this conclusion from the feeling behind our interaction, but now I ask.* I personally don't want to have a memory one day of my wife... where I can think "ah yeah, I remember that other girl I hooked up with after our first date." or even "Yeah, I was dating a couple girls when my wife and I went on our first date. I was really into this other one but she chose this other dude she was seeing too... so my wife just was really my #2 preference." Ugh. There's all sorts of emotional garbage that comes along when you start crossing up these early interactions. *Maybe its a reasonable way of dating, but I personally don't want memories like that. Consider it one last bit of romanticism I have. Simply Amorous will be pleased to hear I have any. lol*


Hey, the  has some scruples - with his hooking up....I like that :yay:..you can lower one of your horns just a little now.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

aston said:


> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Victim / prey / deception? Where is this coming from? The only victims I'm seeing here are guys who think they should have exclusive rights on a woman after (or before) one date and feeling somehow deceived when this isn't the case.
> 
> 
> 
> I went on a date last night and she explained her last relationship as "growing apart....we grew apart". Which resulted in her developing feelings for someone else cnd cheated on him. But somehow it was his fault cause he traveled alot (to support them and their plans to get married etc) and didn't pay her attention.
> 
> Somehow she's the "victim". In other words she got cold feet, cheated on him with a guy she's no longer with by the way and somehow within that whole spectrum she's the victim LOL. It's laughable...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't help but think about this thread while on the date.
Click to expand...

Note: Then you shouldn't ask her for a second date. She told you everything you need to know. Not all women are like that and it isn't the same thing as multi dating because there was exclusivity.

These are the people who have low self esteem. Stay clear of those people. Reminds me of a woman I know who is really in love with her boyfriend ... except it is a different boyfriend every month. She loves being in love. Meanwhile, the rest of her life is a complete disaster. Her fb posts are constantly of the 'whoa is me, why does this always happen to me?' variety.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Well done. Much respect. I wish I had gone that route.. at the very least it would have saved me several years and a lot of grief.


At least you admit and own your role in the whole process. Rather that than play the victim and try to justify your actions. Rather the devil you know than the angel you don't.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Cosmos said:


> I was in a sexless marriage and had the opportunity and temptation to cheat. I chose the honourable option and divorced rather than cheating.


 I consider myself a very honorable woman but if I was met with a sexless marriage...I would be so livid....I'd want to do this to my husband >> 
I know I'd be looking over the fence... so I'd HAVE TO GET OUT -to keep my honor....I would never say "never" to falling into cheating.. under circumstances like that...I was having a hard enough time with once a day 4 yrs ago... the thought of once a month....unfathomable.


----------



## aston

SimplyAmorous said:


> I consider myself a very honorable woman but if I was met with a sexless marriage...I would be so livid....I'd want to do this to my husband >>
> I know I'd be looking over the fence... so I'd HAVE TO GET OUT -to keep my honor....I would never say "never" to falling into cheating.. under circumstances like that...I was having a hard enough time with once a day 4 yrs ago... the thought of once a month....unfathomable.


:smthumbup:


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

SimplyAmorous said:


> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was in a sexless marriage and had the opportunity and temptation to cheat. I chose the honourable option and divorced rather than cheating.
> 
> 
> 
> I consider myself a very honorable woman but if I was met with a sexless marriage...I would be so livid....I'd want to do this to my husband >>
> I know I'd be looking over the fence... so I'd HAVE TO GET OUT -to keep my honor....I would never say "never" to falling into cheating.. under circumstances like that...I was having a hard enough time with once a day 4 yrs ago... the thought of once a month....unfathomable.
Click to expand...

Try once a year ... which has been my average over the last 6 or 7 years including a 3.5 year stretch of no sex









I'm not a complete horn dog ... with my crazy schedule 2x per week would be 'ok' but sheesh. Can't do this much longer. 

Yes, I was very angry about it for a long time but that doesn't do me any good. These debates are interesting to me because I hope to be in that position someday but at the same time it kills me because even the question of how soon to have sex is an impossibility for me. 

It would be a nice problem to have.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

aston said:


> At least you admit and own your role in the whole process. Rather that than play the victim and try to justify your actions. Rather the devil you know than the angel you don't.


I'm no saint. I went through the whole blaming process first. It seemed the natural way to reconcile why I never cheated in dozens of previous easy opportunities and yet finally cheating in the end. Today, I accept full responsibility for my cheating, but that doesn't mean I let my ex off the hook either. Rather, I still feel wronged by her... only I took the wrong action on it.

I have a tendency toward splitting worlds and compartmentalizing. Accepting the good of one thing and working around the cons rather than starting over. I've since learned better. In matters of romance, I want it all or nothing. I have options - and thus no need to put up with anything less.


----------



## Cosmos

SimplyAmorous said:


> I consider myself a very honorable woman but if I was met with a sexless marriage...I would be so livid....
> 
> I know I'd be looking over the fence... so I'd HAVE TO GET OUT -to keep my honor....I would never say "never" to falling into cheating.. under circumstances like that...I was having a hard enough time with once a day 4 yrs ago... the thought of once a month....unfathomable.


Once a month? More like once every 4 - 6 months, _plus_ he lied about the frequency. I suffered from a lengthy bout of post-natal depression, and he had me _convinced_ I was going nuts - telling me we were having sex and I just didn't remember! In the end, my therapist _forced_ him to admit that we hadn't had sex in 6 months!


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Cosmos said:


> SimplyAmorous said:
> 
> 
> 
> I consider myself a very honorable woman but if I was met with a sexless marriage...I would be so livid....
> 
> I know I'd be looking over the fence... so I'd HAVE TO GET OUT -to keep my honor....I would never say "never" to falling into cheating.. under circumstances like that...I was having a hard enough time with once a day 4 yrs ago... the thought of once a month....unfathomable.
> 
> 
> 
> Once a month? More like once every 4 - 6 months, _plus_ he lied about the frequency. I suffered from a lengthy bout of post-natal depression, and he had me _convinced_ I was going nuts - telling me we were having sex and I just didn't remember! In the end, my therapist _forced_ him to admit that we hadn't had sex in 6 months!
Click to expand...

We went to MC and I brought it up. The counselor didn't even want to talk about it. Completely dismissed it as irrelevant.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Cosmos

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Well done. Much respect. I wish I had gone that route.. at the very least it would have saved me several years and a lot of grief.


In these sort of circumstances the withholding spouse is, IMO, placing the marriage in jeopardy. Cheating is a choice, but a sexless marriage is a lot more than most normal, healthy individuals had bargained for. This wasn't the _choice_ they had made when they said "I do."


----------



## Jellybeans

Have you guys heard about the "three-date rule?" It says that people should put out by the third date or they get NEXTED. That is funny/nuts.


----------



## Faithful Wife

We had the 5 date rule. A guy doesn't exist until after the 5th date.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> We went to MC and I brought it up. The counselor didn't even want to talk about it. Completely dismissed it as irrelevant.


lol, sounds like every single thing I brought up in MC. My MC felt more like being in a mental wrestling match with the counselor and my ex.

My desire to have more one-on-one time doing out and about activities with my wife was literally met with "grow up"; as if I wanted to be out partying every weekend... as if I had even done so before we had kids. 

MC was awful. Maybe it was just that I had affairs and those affairs seemingly neutered any real complaints I had, but boy it seemed more for her benefit than mine.


----------



## Jellybeans

Faithful Wife said:


> We had the 5 date rule. * A guy doesn't exist until after the 5th date.*


Expand, please.


----------



## Jellybeans

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> My desire to have more one-on-one time doing out and about activities with my wife was literally met with "grow up"; as if I wanted to be out partying every weekend... as if I had even done so before we had kids.


Sounds like my ex. He would always shut down us doing things together towards the end. Sadness.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> We went to MC and I brought it up. The counselor didn't even want to talk about it. Completely dismissed it as irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> lol, sounds like every single thing I brought up in MC. My MC felt more like being in a mental wrestling match with the counselor and my ex.
> 
> My desire to have more one-on-one time doing out and about activities with my wife was literally met with "grow up"; as if I wanted to be out partying every weekend... as if I had even done so before we had kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MC was awful. Maybe it was just that I had affairs and those affairs seemingly neutered any real complaints I had, but boy it seemed more for her benefit than mine.
Click to expand...

My wife accused me of just wanting to leave her to find 'some hyper-sexed bimbo'. Right. Explaining to her that it isn't about the sex falls on deaf ears.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Jellybeans said:


> Have you guys heard about the "three-date rule?" It says that people should put out by the third date or they get NEXTED. That is funny/nuts.


I wonder if as a person in a sexless marriage, I will be hyper-sensitive to that. If it hasn't happened by the 3rd date, everything else is going well and it hasn't come up, will the red flags start popping.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## Faithful Wife

Jelly Beans...well since most guys ARE mutli-dating, regardless of the feelings of the posters here, women actually get dogged a lot by it. Many men will take you on 2 - 3 or even more dates, get cozy and affectionate with you (or push for sex), and then never call you again. So in order not to get too emotionally invested in a guy who is just going to disappear, it is best to not really even consider him as a "real" suitor until he has stuck around long enough to make you think he is going to keep showing up.

After around the 5th date or so, if a guy is still coming around, usually by then he will start asking about exclusivity, too. In the meantime, you are supposed to assume he is seeing others (and again MOST MEN ARE) and you are supposed to be open to dating others too, or actively multi-dating.

It is a way to protect your own heart and not be invested in someone who really only wants those 3 dates with you. Again, regardless of what men on THIS thread are saying, MOST men ARE multi-dating and you are supposed to assume this...feel free to ask, too. But even if the answer is "no" they are still free to ask out another girl the next night if the opportunity arose.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Faithful Wife said:


> Jelly Beans...well since most guys ARE mutli-dating, regardless of the feelings of the posters here, women actually get dogged a lot by it. Many men will take you on 2 - 3 or even more dates, get cozy and affectionate with you (or push for sex), and then never call you again. So in order not to get too emotionally invested in a guy who is just going to disappear, it is best to not really even consider him as a "real" suitor until he has stuck around long enough to make you think he is going to keep showing up.
> 
> After around the 5th date or so, if a guy is still coming around, usually by then he will start asking about exclusivity, too. In the meantime, you are supposed to assume he is seeing others (and again MOST MEN ARE) and you are supposed to be open to dating others too, or actively multi-dating.
> 
> It is a way to protect your own heart and not be invested in someone who really only wants those 3 dates with you. Again, regardless of what men on THIS thread are saying, MOST men ARE multi-dating and you are supposed to assume this...feel free to ask, too. But even if the answer is "no" they are still free to ask out another girl the next night if the opportunity arose.


Is it true though? I can't think of any single guy I know right now (where I'd be in the position to know) who is multi-dating. They're just happy when they get a date. Then again, I don't hang out with young single guys either.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Jellybeans said:


> Have you guys heard about the "three-date rule?" It says that people should put out by the third date or they get NEXTED. That is funny/nuts.


I have no such rule, though I do know some guys that will become increasingly less interested in a girl the longer she holds out. 3 dates is a little on the low side even for them.

Sex just kinda happens. I'm teasing and building and teasing and building and then poof, she undoes my pants and its game on... she gave me the green light. I'd probably feel all passive and beta about behaving that way if it weren't usually happening on the first date.

I've also heard from women who were so frustrated by the guy they were seeing NOT having made a move by now. One was pretty funny, "I mean jesus chr., wtf doeos he need, a formal invitation?? I want to get laid!" That's a perilous thing to be telling another guy... much less one you know has a bunch of meaningless hookups.

Complaining about their partner to a member of the opposite sex where some attraction exists is one way I've seen a lot of people get into trouble.... myself included. It sets off alarms in my head now.


----------



## Faithful Wife

JustSomeGuy...if you want, I could point you to the corner of the internet where women are seeking dating advice, and about how *most of them encounter men who are mutli-dating*. At first, she is shocked. She had no idea that he was seeing other women. The experienced daters tell her, yes sweetie...you can assume they all are. This plays out over and over and over.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jelly Beans...well since most guys ARE mutli-dating, regardless of the feelings of the posters here, women actually get dogged a lot by it. Many men will take you on 2 - 3 or even more dates, get cozy and affectionate with you (or push for sex), and then never call you again. So in order not to get too emotionally invested in a guy who is just going to disappear, it is best to not really even consider him as a "real" suitor until he has stuck around long enough to make you think he is going to keep showing up.
> 
> After around the 5th date or so, if a guy is still coming around, usually by then he will start asking about exclusivity, too. In the meantime, you are supposed to assume he is seeing others (and again MOST MEN ARE) and you are supposed to be open to dating others too, or actively multi-dating.
> 
> It is a way to protect your own heart and not be invested in someone who really only wants those 3 dates with you. Again, regardless of what men on THIS thread are saying, MOST men ARE multi-dating and you are supposed to assume this...feel free to ask, too. But even if the answer is "no" they are still free to ask out another girl the next night if the opportunity arose.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it true though? I can't think of any single guy I know right now (where I'd be in the position to know) who is multi-dating. They're just happy when they get a date. Then again, I don't hang out with young single guys either.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_
Click to expand...

Then again, I work in IT and those are the people I hang out with ... we are decidedly a different sort of fella.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## Jellybeans

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I wonder if as a person in a sexless marriage, I will be hyper-sensitive to that. If it hasn't happened by the 3rd date, everything else is going well and it hasn't come up, will the red flags start popping.


Only time will tell...



Faithful Wife said:


> Jelly Beans...well since most guys ARE mutli-dating, regardless of the feelings of the posters here, women actually get dogged a lot by it. Many men will take you on 2 - 3 or even more dates, get cozy and affectionate with you (or push for sex), and then never call you again. So in order not to get too emotionally invested in a guy who is just going to disappear, it is best to not really even consider him as a "real" suitor until he has stuck around long enough to make you think he is going to keep showing up.
> 
> After around the 5th date or so, if a guy is still coming around, usually by then he will start asking about exclusivity, too. In the meantime, you are supposed to assume he is seeing others (and again MOST MEN ARE) and you are supposed to be open to dating others too, or actively multi-dating.


Ah, I see. This is actually great advice/way of thinking. It seems very practical and makes sense.



JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Is it true though? I can't think of any single guy I know right now (where I'd be in the position to know) who is multi-dating.


Really? There are men and women alike who multi-date. It's not all that uncommon but it comes down to preference. I've never been good at it or into it really (personally).



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I've also heard from women who were so frustrated by the guy they were seeing NOT having made a move by now. One was pretty funny, "I mean jesus chr., wtf doeos he need, a formal invitation?? I want to get laid!"



I think that is because as women, we expect men to be the aggressors so when a guy isn't being aggressive that way, it kinda throws us for a loop (and can make us want to jump on top of him, like _"Hey, what's wrong? Why aren't you attracted to me?"_ Reverse psychology at its finest. 



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Complaining about their partner to a member of the opposite sex where some attraction exists is one way I've seen a lot of people get into trouble.... myself included. It sets off alarms in my head now.


Well, either they want a man's opinion (probably most likely, especially if they are simply dating, not exclusive); or, if they are exclusive, then that changes things--it's wrong to complaint to the opposite sex about your partner, IMO. Or rather, get into nitty gritty details that your partner prob wouldn't be happy about.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Faithful Wife said:


> JustSomeGuy...if you want, I could point you to the corner of the internet where women are seeking dating advice, and about how *most of them encounter men who are mutli-dating*. At first, she is shocked. She had no idea that he was seeing other women. The experienced daters tell her, yes sweetie...you can assume they all are. This plays out over and over and over.


Ha! Well, I admit I don't know very much. Haven't dated since I was 22. I would not be a multi dater just by my nature and naturally I typically hang out with people who are a lot like me. I'm a decent enough looking guy and very fit ... but it is hard to imagine even having the opportunity. If I could manage finding a date (not a hookup) every 3 or 4 months, I would think it a success.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## Cosmos

Faithful Wife said:


> JustSomeGuy...if you want, I could point you to the corner of the internet where women are seeking dating advice, and about how *most of them encounter men who are mutli-dating*. At first, she is shocked. She had no idea that he was seeing other women. The experienced daters tell her, yes sweetie...you can assume they all are. This plays out over and over and over.


In my multi-dating days, FW, it wasn't unusual for me to run into a forthcoming Saturday night's date on a week night in a restaurant etc. It never bothered me - particularly because a Saturday night date was an indicator of more interest


----------



## SimplyAmorous

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Try once a year ... which has been my average over the last 6 or 7 years including a 3.5 year stretch of no sex
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a complete horn dog ... with my crazy schedule 2x per week would be 'ok' but sheesh. Can't do this much longer.


OMG - that's insanity... Not a complete horndog is an understatement...in my book that's a Saint, and if your sacrifice is for your children.. will they ever realize.... I bet you use plenty of porn... and who would blame you...

The sacrifice is just too deep...it steals your life... so I would feel..... I was a child of divorce myself ....

My Mom wasn't attracted to my dad & didn't like sex with him...... well her best friend always wanted him all through high school..(her husband was my dad's best friend, talk about a tangled web!)....she started getting chummy... she knew what she was doing...and my dad & her ....ended up in the sack.. now the thing is.. 

MY dad fought like hell with my Mom (I remember those fights as a little girl) - do I blame him.. NO I don't.... and he told her exactly what was happening.. she even told him to go... but her husband -that was another story....This was cheating.. but it was .... "honest upfront in your face" -so My Mom had options.. no secrecy here...that's another animal I suppose. 

I consider my Mother the downfall of their marriage, she'd even blame herself & said my dad was a good man, he didn't deserve that..she just wasn't into him.. He married my step Mom within a week after the divorce and they've been together 36 yrs now.. no infidelities...

Not every situation is created equal... at least I don't think so...People who think they can expect their spouse to live like a damn Monk.. I have no sympathy for them at all. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Jellybeans

Saturday seems to be prime real estate night in the dating world. Lol.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Faithful Wife said:


> JustSomeGuy...if you want, I could point you to the corner of the internet where women are seeking dating advice, and about how *most of them encounter men who are mutli-dating*. At first, she is shocked. She had no idea that he was seeing other women. The experienced daters tell her, yes sweetie...you can assume they all are. This plays out over and over and over.


I do have point out though that it is a leap in logic to say that since most women encounter men who multi-date then most men multi-date. That's like saying that if most women have encountered men with an 8" penis then most men have an 8" penis.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## Cosmos

Faithful Wife said:


> Jelly Beans...well since most guys ARE mutli-dating, regardless of the feelings of the posters here, women actually get dogged a lot by it. Many men will take you on 2 - 3 or even more dates, get cozy and affectionate with you (or push for sex), and then never call you again. So in order not to get too emotionally invested in a guy who is just going to disappear, it is best to not really even consider him as a "real" suitor until he has stuck around long enough to make you think he is going to keep showing up.
> 
> After around the 5th date or so, if a guy is still coming around, usually by then he will start asking about exclusivity, too. In the meantime, you are supposed to assume he is seeing others (and again MOST MEN ARE) and you are supposed to be open to dating others too, or actively multi-dating.
> 
> It is a way to protect your own heart and not be invested in someone who really only wants those 3 dates with you. Again, regardless of what men on THIS thread are saying, MOST men ARE multi-dating and you are supposed to assume this...feel free to ask, too. But even if the answer is "no" they are still free to ask out another girl the next night if the opportunity arose.


:iagree:

Also, when the dates became more frequent (more than once a week), I tended to start putting other dates on the back burner. But even at this stage, I still wouldn't have expected exclusivity from a man, unless it had been specifically discussed and agreed upon. I would have simply assumed that on the nights he wasn't seeing me he was probably dating others.


----------



## Jellybeans

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I do have point out though that it is a leap in logic to say that since most women encounter men who multi-date then most men multi-date.


And just WHO are those men dating? Women, I suppose. If they are hetero...


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

SimplyAmorous said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try once a year ... which has been my average over the last 6 or 7 years including a 3.5 year stretch of no sex
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a complete horn dog ... with my crazy schedule 2x per week would be 'ok' but sheesh. Can't do this much longer.
> 
> 
> 
> OMG - that's insanity... Not a complete horndog is an understatement...in my book that's a Saint, and if your sacrifice is for your children.. will they ever realize.... I bet you use plenty of porn... and who would blame you...
> 
> The sacrifice is just too deep...it steals your life... so I would feel..... I was a child of divorce myself ....
> 
> My Mom wasn't attracted to my dad & didn't like sex with him...... well her best friend always wanted him all through high school..(her husband was my dad's best friend, talk about a tangled web!)....she started getting chummy... she knew what she was doing...and my dad & her ....ended up in the sack.. now the thing is..
> 
> MY dad fought like hell with my Mom (I remember those fights as a little girl) - do I blame him.. NO I don't.... and he told her exactly what was happening.. she even told him to go... but her husband -that was another story....This was cheating.. but it was .... "honest upfront in your face" -so My Mom had options.. no secrecy here...that's another animal I suppose.
> 
> I consider my Mother the downfall of their marriage, she'd even blame herself & said my dad was a good man, he didn't deserve that..she just wasn't into him.. He married my step Mom within a week after the divorce and they've been together 36 yrs now.. no infidelities...
> 
> Not every situation is created equal... at least I don't think so...People who think they can expect their spouse to live like a damn Monk.. I have no sympathy for them at all. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

No porn ... but my right arm gets exercised at least once daily  I have a very vivid imagination. It is sometimes difficult to remember what the real thing is like though. 

Yes ... my girls are first and foremost in my mind when considering divorce.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I do have point out though that it is a leap in logic to say that since most women encounter men who multi-date then most men multi-date. That's like saying that if most women have encountered men with an 8" penis then most men have an 8" penis.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


To piggy back on that thought, I imagine a lot of women would have an experience with such men given those men are always running around dating several at a time!!

Those guys are going to seem a lot more prevalent - whereas, asking guys and hearing guys experiences... I don't think its prevalent at ALL. Most guys I hear from feel lucky when a woman accepts a date.

If landing all these dates was so common that multi-dating was rampant, then this huge publishing industry catering to "getting a girl" wouldn't exist.

So no... most guy's real world experience is that its not all that easy to get a date, much less several a week. Hell, I pride myself on my pickup skills and I'd be hard pressed to land dates with 2+ new women I just met every week. I'd either be out ALL the time, or I'd have to lower standards and just ask at will.


----------



## Jellybeans

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Those guys are going to seem a lot more prevalent - whereas, asking guys and hearing guys experiences... I don't think its prevalent at ALL. *Most guys I hear from feel lucky when a woman accepts a date.*


Really? I find this endearing. 



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> So no... most guy's real world experience is that its not all that easy to get a date, much less several a week. Hell, I pride myself on my pickup skills and I'd be hard pressed to land dates with 2+ new women I just met every week. *I'd either be out ALL the time, or I'd have to lower standards and just ask at will*.


:rofl:


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do have point out though that it is a leap in logic to say that since most women encounter men who multi-date then most men multi-date. That's like saying that if most women have encountered men with an 8" penis then most men have an 8" penis.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_
> 
> 
> 
> To piggy back on that thought, I imagine a lot of women would have an experience with such men given those men are always running around dating several at a time!!
> 
> Those guys are going to seem a lot more prevalent - whereas, asking guys and hearing guys experiences... I don't think its prevalent at ALL. Most guys I hear from feel lucky when a woman accepts a date.
> 
> If landing all these dates was so common that multi-dating was rampant, then this huge publishing industry catering to "getting a girl" wouldn't exist.
> 
> So no... most guys real world experience is that its not all that easy to get a date, much less several a week.
Click to expand...

Thank you. That was exactly my point.

If you have 5 men and one of them is dating 5 different women while the other 4 are happily just dating one then 5 women are dating a multi-dater and 4 of them are not ... which means a majority of women are dating a multi-dater while a minority of men are multi-daters.

Us IT guys 

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Most guys aren't that good at the pickup game. I mean really ... how many available and attractive women (to me) do I encounter every week that I would ask out if I was in the position to do so? Even if I was great at the pickup game I wouldn't think very many. Even if I became single today and I had to find a date today or I would fall dead ... I would have no idea who I could ask out.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

FrenchFry said:


> How social are you naturally? Like, my husband was in a bar 5-6 days a week, every week and his job had him meeting huge amounts of different people all the time. On top of that, he has a huge friend network.


Bingo! Most guys aren't in a bar 5-6 days a week and aren't that social. Most guys have small circles of close friends (the rest of their friends they almost never talk to) and rely heavily on coincidence and introduction to meet women.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

FrenchFry said:


> How social are you naturally? Like, my husband was in a bar 5-6 days a week, every week and his job had him meeting huge amounts of different people all the time. On top of that, he has a huge friend network.


Me? I am definitely not an extrovert by any stretch ... nor am I anti-social. I am naturally an introvert so I don't go out of my way to meet new people but at the same time I strike up conversations with people I don't know quite often. I work with a couple hundred people and know most of them ... but can't say I meet new people at work all that often. I work in IT so I work with the people at our home offices. We have people in the field who make a living meeting new people.

I wouldn't have time or the inclination to be in a bar 5-6 days a week ... nor would I consider that "normal" behavior. If I went to a bar, it might be happy hour with work people or if I didn't have plans I might go to the bar. 

When I was separated, I went to the bar maybe once on most weeks. I am not the move around the room striking up conversation kind of person. If someone is sitting next to me I will strike up a conversation. I wasn't looking for anything at the time other than NOT sit alone in my apartment so that may have changed things but I would say on most nights I spent most of the time by myself. I also didn't frequent the known meat-markets so that might be different.

I don't know ... I think of my day. I get up and go to work. I work with the same people daily. I go home and spend time with my daughters and do chores. Then I go to bed. I do stop at the convenience store nearly daily for a soda and I know and talk to everyone that works there. I go to the gym on a regular basis but most of the people I meet there are dudes and the women there already feel harassed. I meet new people obviously ... not just a lot of new people and then once you qualify it with women who are available to date ... just doesn't happen often enough to envision me managing multiple dates.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Bingo! Most guys aren't in a bar 5-6 days a week and aren't that social. Most guys have small circles of close friends (the rest of their friends they almost never talk to) and rely heavily on coincidence and introduction to meet women.


That is exactly me ... to a tee. I do know a lot of people but I have always been the guy to simply keep a small group of really close friends. Coincidence and introduction is exactly how I've met the handful of women who have been in my life.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

But you are a woman ... you could go to wal-mart at 11pm in ratty pajamas, no makeup and hair that you haven't brushed in two days and at least one guy will have decided he wants to have sex with you, whether he hits on you or not.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

FrenchFry said:


> True enough, but I'm practically a hermit and I managed to multi-date. Mine was mostly a function of "I don't know you well enough to be up your butt more than once a week, oh plus I need a few days alone, I'll call you soon." *rotate dudes*


You're a woman. If you're decent looking all you have to do is stand there and accept dates, then go out with them for as long as you want until they give up. 

A ton of women I know even joke about how they've never broken up with a guy. They just stop responding and he eventually gets a clue.

Re: hubby... being very social is a must for a guy multi-dating. If you're not engaging a lot of people, you're not dating a lot of people. That said, averaging 2 new women a week is tough and I have a large social circle. I'm rapidly going to burn through my circle and need to find new people to keep up that kind of pace. Also, going for months dating someone while dating other people? To me there's nothing that says "I don't really give a sh*t about you" more than that. At least a hit it and quit it person doesn't drag it out and deliberately keep things so unsettled for months.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Damn it JustSomeGuy... you beat me to the "you're a woman" statement... I was typing... too much, as usual. lol


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

FrenchFry said:


> My husband is just one example of how to multi-date and I don't pretend that I can extrapolate how he did it vs how others do it. I see how he did it much easier, but if he was single now with all of the other changes that have come in his life (like he drinks once a month...maybe) I still think his personality is such that he'd continue multi-dating, going about it about the same way he did when he met me...on a slightly smaller scale.


From your description, he seems like an atypical guy. Those ARE the guys that can easily find and date multiple women and they are the guys people remembee. If you work in a field where you constantly meet new people, you are probably an expert in establishing new relationships. Me, I sit in an office all day.... with people who sit in an office all day.

I remember back when I was young I worked at a convenience store one summer. I had just graduated college and was biding time while looking fir my first professional job. Naturally meeting new people was a daily part of my job. Even as a guy, for 4 short months I was hit on constantly. In that capacity, I certainly could have been hooking up and dating multiple women at the same time. I was hit on by women in their 60's all the way down to girls no more than 14 years old. There was a gay bar down the street and when it let out, I was even hit on by those guys, lol. Never in my life since then have I encountered anything approaching that.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## angelpixie

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> But you are a woman ... you could go to wal-mart at 11pm in ratty pajamas, no makeup and hair that you haven't brushed in two days and at least one guy will have decided he wants to have sex with you, whether he hits on you or not.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_



Where the hell do YOU live? :scratchhead:


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

angelpixie said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you are a woman ... you could go to wal-mart at 11pm in ratty pajamas, no makeup and hair that you haven't brushed in two days and at least one guy will have decided he wants to have sex with you, whether he hits on you or not.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where the hell do YOU live?
Click to expand...

Lol ... the wealthiest county in Indiana. 

Doesn't matter where you live, it is how guys think. It is universal.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## coffee4me

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> You're a woman. If you're decent looking all you have to do is stand there and accept dates, then go out with them for as long as you want until they give up.


That was funny. Guess it depends on where you stand.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

coffee4me said:


> DvlsAdvc8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a woman. If you're decent looking all you have to do is stand there and accept dates, then go out with them for as long as you want until they give up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was funny. Guess it depends on where you stand.
Click to expand...

Ha! So he exaggerated a bit.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## angelpixie

FrenchFry said:


> Oh, you don't have a Walmart you go to @ 3AM.


No, there are actually 2 of them in my town that are open at 3 a.m., but I've never gone to either of them at that time. I just don't see all of these guys so desperately hanging around pining after ANY woman they see, just so they get a date (supposedly). Maybe the male/female ratio is different where I live, I don't know.


----------



## bravenewworld

At the end of the day - looks are subjective, attraction fickle, and time precious. IMHO it's a bit ridiculous to think anyone would want to "be exclusive" based on one date. After going through the medieval torture that is divorce, why on earth would anyone want to immediately anchor themselves exclusively to one person?! Hello bad marriage 2.0 

After having your marriage go down the poop chute, you really need to experience what's out there and who you are compatible with. Only dating one person at a time because of the other person's possible insecurities makes no sense. If some guy asked me on a first date if I was seeing other people before/after him I'd think he was controlling and/or nuts. 

And if he was resentful about buying me dinner on our FIRST date because I wasn't exclusively dating him? Well, in my book, THAT'S tacky. I will happily pay for my own freckled lemonade and chicken burger. Seriously - it's not that big of a deal to be so bitter and resentful. You're most likely giving her a moderately-priced dinner, not your kidney. 

If multi-dating with honesty, kindness, and confidence is what it takes to be considered a princess these days - move over Kate! Here I come!


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

angelpixie said:


> No, there are actually 2 of them in my town that are open at 3 a.m., but I've never gone to either of them at that time. I just don't see all of these guys so desperately hanging around pining after ANY woman they see, just so they get a date (supposedly). Maybe the male/female ratio is different where I live, I don't know.


No, that isn't what I meant. The idea of somebody hanging around walmart looking for dates is laughable. No, what I'm saying that as you are walking down the aisles, chances are better than even that the guy walking in the opposite direction or walking behind you has already checked you out. If something catches his eye then he's probably already determined if he would have sex with you or not. You don't have to be your hottest, somebody will have checked you out. That doesn't mean that they will ask you out ... that depends on a lot of things.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

angelpixie said:


> No, there are actually 2 of them in my town that are open at 3 a.m., but I've never gone to either of them at that time. I just don't see all of these guys so desperately hanging around pining after ANY woman they see, just so they get a date (supposedly). Maybe the male/female ratio is different where I live, I don't know.


There are two 24 hour walmart supercenters within a 20 minute drive where I am. There is another 24 hour store right across the street from one of them that is similar to a walmart supercenter. There is another wal-mart close by that is open until 9 or 10.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

bravenewworld said:


> At the end of the day - looks are subjective, attraction fickle, and time precious. IMHO it's a bit ridiculous to think anyone would want to "be exclusive" based on one date. After going through the medieval torture that is divorce, why on earth would anyone want to immediately anchor themselves exclusively to one person?! Hello bad marriage 2.0
> 
> After having your marriage go down the poop chute, you really need to experience what's out there and who you are compatible with. Only dating one person at a time because of the other person's possible insecurities makes no sense. If some guy asked me on a first date if I was seeing other people before/after him I'd think he was controlling and/or nuts.
> 
> And if he was resentful about buying me dinner on our FIRST date because I wasn't exclusively dating him? Well, in my book, THAT'S tacky. I will happily pay for my own freckled lemonade and chicken burger. Seriously - it's not that big of a deal to be so bitter and resentful. You're most likely giving her a moderately-priced dinner, not your kidney.
> 
> If multi-dating with honesty, kindness, and confidence is what it takes to be considered a princess these days - move over Kate! Here I come!


To this I agree ... somewhat. I don't see a problem with it when put in those terms. I don't see myself having the opportunity but lots of people do so "go them". I am also not inclined to ask somebody for a date if I've got one lined up already but that's just me. I guess it all depends on what is meant by dating. If she has been dating somebody for 2 months and she accepts a date with me ... I'd wonder why she didn't drop him already ... I don't want to be anybody's exit guy. If she's got a couple of guys she's seen once or twice then I don't see what the big deal is. She hasn't decided on anybody yet and they can't be that important to her if she just accepted a date from me. I'm certainly not going to resent the price of a date ... that seems silly to me ... at the very least I had somebody's company for a few hours and that is worth it to me. 

I am not cool with going out on a date with somebody who is already sleeping with somebody else and plans to continue sleeping with him even if exclusivity hasn't been decided. If anything, it is because it isn't fair to that guy and I would wonder if I got to the point I was sleeping with her, how many other guys would she be doing? I would question her character. That feels wrong to me and if somebody thinks its because I'm insecure, controlling or nuts ... well, so be it. NOTE: I will add that I recognize I have insecurities about it all. A long term sexless marriage will do that to a guy. I will have to deal with that before I'll be any good to anybody ... but controlling or nuts, I am not ... weird maybe ... but not nuts


----------



## bravenewworld

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I am not cool with going out on a date with somebody who is already sleeping with somebody else and plans to continue sleeping with him even if exclusivity hasn't been decided. If anything, it is because it isn't fair to that guy and I would wonder if I got to the point I was sleeping with her, how many other guys would she be doing? That feels wrong to me and if somebody thinks its because I'm insecure, controlling or nuts ... well, so be it.


I can understand your point of view and pre-divorce had a similar one myself. Divorced changed me in ways I wouldn't have fathomed. After I got over my biased, unfair, and untrue "all men cheat" phase (thank you therapy!) I have moved on to a place of being more understanding of other's baggage and need for independence. Lord knows I possess both myself. 

I guess what I am saying is whether she's sleeping with or seeing someone else isn't something you can politely ask about on the first date. Based on your values I think it's entirely appropriate to inquire about this pre-sex and even request for exclusivity before sex occurs. I definitely don't think that makes you insecure, controlling, or nuts. Perhaps a bit old-fashioned but with the right personality that can be charming.

What I do think is possibly insecure, controlling, and/or nuts is demanding dating exclusivity before the first date even occurs or during the initial "getting to know you" phase.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

bravenewworld said:


> I can understand your point of view and pre-divorce had a similar one myself. Divorced changed me in ways I wouldn't have fathomed. After I got over my biased, unfair, and untrue "all men cheat" phase (thank you therapy!) I have moved on to a place of being more understanding of other's baggage and need for independence. Lord knows I possess both myself.
> 
> I guess what I am saying is whether she's sleeping with or seeing someone else isn't something you can politely ask about on the first date. Based on your values I think it's entirely appropriate to inquire about this pre-sex and even request for exclusivity before sex occurs. I definitely don't think that makes you insecure, controlling, or nuts. Perhaps a bit old-fashioned but with the right personality that can be charming.
> 
> What I do think is possibly insecure, controlling, and/or nuts is demanding dating exclusivity before the first date even occurs or during the initial "getting to know you" phase.


So it is old-fashioned to only sleep with one person at a time? Really?


----------



## bravenewworld

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> NOTE: I will add that I recognize I have insecurities about it all. A long term sexless marriage will do that to a guy. I will have to deal with that before I'll be any good to anybody ... but controlling or nuts, I am not ... weird maybe ... but not nuts


You're preaching to the choir. I think a lot of us here were trapped in those kinds of situations. The first time I had sex with someone post-separation I almost cried when he asked me "what I wanted from the experience" which was something my ex husband NEVER asked nor cared about. 

Respectful, casual sex can be very healing in many ways. I used to think it was trampy but recent experiences have made me much less judgmental.


----------



## bravenewworld

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> So it is old-fashioned to only sleep with one person at a time? Really?


I don't think it's old-fashioned to do; I do think it's old fashioned to expect from others. Unless you are fairly religious and meeting people within your church group or something similar. 

Many people just don't think/behave that way, especially post divorce. Lots of nice people live their lives in very different ways.

My ex and I were practically both virgins when we met - and that didn't help us stay married. This has jaded me in some ways and made me more open-minded in others.


----------



## Lon

What is so wrong about expecting both daters to simply be exclusive with each other until date #2?

That is how I roll, and it is how I would prefer someone I ask out on a date roll too.

I'm not into the whole competitive, 3rd date, 5th date rules game. If I have to compete with other guys just to hold your attention, even after you accepted my company, well I just won't.

I think women really are the gate keepers here, and the 80-20 rule applies: the 80% of women multi-dating are mostly seeing the 20% of men that multi-date.

The mostly male remaining half of daters who are "sequential" usually just feel lucky if they can approach someone and get a date. But that is because we foolishly assign too much importance to a date.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

bravenewworld said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it is old-fashioned to only sleep with one person at a time? Really?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it's old-fashioned to do; I do think it's old fashioned to expect from others. Unless you are fairly religious and meeting people within your church group or something similar.
> 
> Many people just don't think/behave that way, especially post divorce. Lots of nice people live their lives in very different ways.
> 
> My ex and I were practically both virgins when we met - and that didn't help us stay married. This has jaded me in some ways and made me more open-minded in others.
Click to expand...

No, I am not at all religious. My wife is a fundamentslist christian though. We have some similar values but compared to her I'm a raging liberal, lol

I will say that the idea of sleeping with somebody who is sleeping with somebody else ... kind of turns my stomach. It might very well be that it is because I've essentially been celibate for many years. I am unashamedly jealous of all those that have that in their lives. It means something to me, don't have it while other people get "laid like tile", lol, and it doesn't seem to mean much. It isn't so much the sex ... it is the lack of physical intimacy.

Part of it is the ick factor ... the image of going down on someone who just the night before had somebody else's D in her is ... disturbing. 

Part of it is that I rely on actions more than words ... If somebody tells me I'm great, wants to spend time with me, cares for me ... and then the next night has sex with somebody else then the words don't mean as much. 

Part of it is that I'm with a woman who I provide for, have children with and have spent 24 years with being exclusive ... and she doesn't want to have sex. That is my insecurity. When so many people are casually having sex I wonder how I'm so terrible that my own wife doesn't care. When a guy at a bar can say the right words to a woman who doesn't know he doesn't have a job or beats his kids and she takes him home, and yet my own wife would be just fine letting me live my days without intimacy just defies my sensibility. I'm not judging them ... I'm judging me ... and I will have to deal with those emotions.

Who knows ... maybe I'll turn into a freak and screw everyone in sight, lol. Nah, that's not me either but I may have to alter my viewpoint if that's what it means to successfully date in today's world. I don't know that I will be ever comfortable saying ... oh, you're going out with so and so tomorrow night? Ok, well have fun and do me a favor ... can you please have him wear protection?

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Ok ... scenario: I've gone out on two dates with a nice woman. We have a great time and there is something there. There is a mutual attraction and we sleep with each other on the second date. It wasn't our intention but it just happened. Saturday night rolls around and I tell her I have plans. She goes out with friends that night to a local bar where a band is playing. She spots me on the dance floor happily engaged with another woman. It is my first date with this other woman.

What are the odds I get another date with the first woman?

Have I done anything wrong? If my odds are low then why? Should be ok, right?

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ok ... scenario: I've gone out on two dates with a nice woman. We have a great time and there is something there. There is a mutual attraction and we sleep with each other on the second date. It wasn't our intention but it just happened. Saturday night rolls around and I tell her I have plans. She goes out with friends that night to a local bar where a band is playing. She spots me on the dance floor happily engaged with another woman. It is my first date with this other woman.
> 
> What are the odds I get another date with the first woman?
> 
> Have I done anything wrong? If my odds are low then why? Should be ok, right?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


Sex is the variable that changes everything.


----------



## Lon

True story, met one lady through friends, it was an unofficial blind date, eventually I asked her out on a "real" first date (but I wasn't exactly making it known I was into her, I was keeping it cool because I didn't want to do my usual nice guy dive in routine). We talked about a few things and one thing that came up is we were both on POF, she seemed bashful about it, I let it be known I had never even got any dates on there). After this casual first date we said our goodnights, I didn't go for a kiss but we gave each other interested smiles and set up another.date.

When I got to bed I did my usual routine of checking emails, TAM etc and there was an message from a fake pof profile so I looked at it... Within minutes she called me all hurt that I would do such a thing (she never did answer about why she was checking up on me, err stalking, on said dating website).

Anyways we discuss it, I explained, got defensive, told her I don't multi-date. I still gave her my time after that, had several more dates, enjoyed each others company for awhile but it didn't really go anywhere, I can't tell who was trying harder to play coy.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> Sex is the variable that changes everything.


Right ... well, that is what my thinking would be too ... but some people are saying that is no big deal. It would be old fashioned if I expected that of others. So, I would expect that my odds of getting a third date would be low ... but if the roles were reversed and I saw her very much engaged with another man on the dance floor, I should accept that ... because that's how people roll these days?


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Right ... well, that is what my thinking would be too ... but some people are saying that is no big deal. It would be old fashioned if I expected that of others. So, I would expect that my odds of getting a third date would be low ... but if the roles were reversed and I saw her very much engaged with another man on the dance floor, I should accept that?


IMO - Before sex, yes. Afterwards, no.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> IMO - Before sex, yes. Afterwards, no.


But it was just sex ... I mean, it just happened. No big deal, right? It's not like I promised to marry her or anything ....

Obviously I'm playing devil's advocate.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Lon said:


> True story, met one lady through friends, it was an unofficial blind date, eventually I asked her out on a "real" first date (but I wasn't exactly making it known I was into her, I was keeping it cool because I didn't want to do my usual nice guy dive in routine). We talked about a few things and one thing that came up is we were both on POF, she seemed bashful about it, I let it be known I had never even got any dates on there). After this casual first date we said our goodnights, I didn't go for a kiss but we gave each other interested smiles and set up another.date.
> 
> When I got to bed I did my usual routine of checking emails, TAM etc and there was an message from a fake pof profile so I looked at it... Within minutes she called me all hurt that I would do such a thing (she never did answer about why she was checking up on me, err stalking, on said dating website).
> 
> Anyways we discuss it, I explained, got defensive, told her I don't multi-date. I still gave her my time after that, had several more dates, enjoyed each others company for awhile but it didn't really go anywhere, I can't tell who was trying harder to play coy.


lol ... it was a blind date ... her checking up would freak me out a bit. Haven't even gone out on a first real date and she's checking up on you? It does somewhat support the idea that multi-dating is ok.

POF is a known hookup site. That alone would be a red flag in my mind. Local guy recently got arrested for having unprotected sex with dozens of women while HIV positive ... all arranged through POF. A few of the women later tested positive. If you saw a picture of him you would wonder how THAT guy arranged for so many ONS.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



JustSomeGuyWho said:


> lol ... it was a blind date ... her checking up would freak me out a bit. Haven't even gone out on a first real date and she's checking up on you? It does somewhat support the idea that multi-dating is ok.
> 
> POF is a known hookup site. That alone would be a red flag in my mind. Local guy recently got arrested for having unprotected sex with dozens of women while HIV positive ... all arranged through POF. A few of the women later tested positive. If you saw a picture of him you would wonder how THAT guy arranged for so many ONS.


It was after the first "real" date, and in these parts pof is (or was 2 years ago) widely used by most single people in my town, for both hookups and LTR's alike.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Lon said:


> It was after the first "real" date, and in these parts pof is (or was 2 years ago) widely used by most single people in my town, for both hookups and LTR's alike.


Ahh, I misunderstood. Yeah, I don't know about Canada. The people I've talked to around here who online date seem far more comfortable with match or eharmony. POF has a completely different reputation.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Some people who multi-date are also multi-sleeping-with people. Some aren't.


----------



## bravenewworld

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ok ... scenario: I've gone out on two dates with a nice woman. We have a great time and there is something there. There is a mutual attraction and we sleep with each other on the second date. It wasn't our intention but it just happened. Saturday night rolls around and I tell her I have plans. She goes out with friends that night to a local bar where a band is playing. She spots me on the dance floor happily engaged with another woman. It is my first date with this other woman.
> 
> What are the odds I get another date with the first woman?
> 
> Have I done anything wrong? If my odds are low then why? Should be ok, right?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


Ok, if I was the woman in your scenario-

I would be hurt. And insecure. Just a natural reaction that can't be helped, BUT - I would take into account the fact we aren't in a committed relationship. If you and the woman were chatting or not slow dancing/grinding I might go up and say hi in a casual/friendly way then make a quick exit. 

If you were locking lips or being really flirty I probably would not say hi because I know my presence would be unwanted. 

Either way, if you contacted me after that I'd mention I saw you on Saturday night. If I was ready for a relationship I'd ask if you had any interest in being exclusive. If I was not ready, I'd ask if you were using protection. 

Basically I would feel unpleasant emotions but I would also take responsibility for my emotions and the handling of them. You would not have done anything wrong unless you rubbed my face in it or acted dismissive towards me. 

There is also the slight chance that I'd see the woman really enjoying your company, realize I didn't have the same feelings toward you, and respectfully bow out of dating.


----------



## bravenewworld

Faithful Wife said:


> Some people who multi-date are also multi-sleeping-with people. Some aren't.


Very true.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



bravenewworld said:


> Ok, if I was the woman in your scenario-
> 
> I would be hurt. And insecure. Just a natural reaction that can't be helped, BUT - I would take into account the fact we aren't in a committed relationship. If you and the woman were chatting or not slow dancing/grinding I might go up and say hi in a casual/friendly way then make a quick exit.
> 
> If you were locking lips or being really flirty I probably would not say hi because I know my presence would be unwanted.
> 
> Either way, if you contacted me after that I'd mention I saw you on Saturday night. If I was ready for a relationship I'd ask if you had any interest in being exclusive. If I was not ready, I'd ask if you were using protection.
> 
> Basically I would feel unpleasant emotions but I would also take responsibility for my emotions and the handling of them. You would not have done anything wrong unless you rubbed my face in it or acted dismissive towards me.
> 
> There is also the slight chance that I'd see the woman really enjoying your company, realize I didn't have the same feelings toward you, and respectfully bow out of dating.


Maybe I'm too much of a nice guy, but I would never treat a woman I was interested in in that way, I feel it disrespectful that I would put you in a situation that you had to logisize your way out of.


----------



## Faithful Wife

There are forums full of women describing that exact scenario, and trying to figure out how to navigate it.

If she liked him a lot and thought they were exclusive, she'll probably make a scene in some way.

Or if she understood that just because they slept together, they still haven't had the exclusivity talk yet so....that means technically she should assume he is seeing others, EVEN THOUGH they just had sex. And when this happens and the woman DOES understand this dynamic, usually things can still work out just fine.

There is every variation on this you can think of happening out there in the dating world right now...and most people are used to the idea that no one is exclusive until it is spoken and agreed upon. If you don't realize that, then yes, you could get hurt by making assumptions about being exclusive before going on ONE DATE.

Better to not assume at all and just find out where the other person stands before a date.


----------



## bravenewworld

Lon said:


> Maybe I'm too much of a nice guy, but I would never treat a woman I was interested in in that way, I feel it disrespectful that I would put you in a situation that you had to logisize your way out of.


I totally respect that. 

In my case, however, I want to continue dating other people so I don't expect anyone I'm dating to see me exclusively. It just wouldn't be fair. 

I can be a jealous person and I try to keep it tempered as I know I'm not ready for a commitment. Reminding myself it's ok to feel hurt, rejected, disappointed, etc. and that I've rebounded from worse helps. It's ok to be somewhat vulnerable as long as you don't bite off more than you can chew.

The trade-off to experiencing these somewhat negative emotions is retaining my independence. For me, that totally makes it worth it. 

Finding out my spouse was cheating on me was devastating. Seeing some guy I'm dating/hooking up with on a dance floor? Eh, not so much.


----------



## Faithful Wife

That's perspective, Brave.

The moment that hypothetical woman sees the man on the dance floor, she knows, KNOWS, inside herself...."damn, we didn't have the exclusivity talk".

She KNOWS this. She knows she should not have assumed. And that if she did, that is just a shame but nothing more, just a shame.

Not the end of the world as far as dating goes.


----------



## HappyKaty

bravenewworld said:


> Finding out my spouse was cheating on me was devastating. Seeing some guy I'm dating/hooking up with on a dance floor? Eh, not so much.


QFT.

Even if I had had sex with him, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

bravenewworld said:


> Ok, if I was the woman in your scenario-
> 
> I would be hurt. And insecure. Just a natural reaction that can't be helped, BUT - I would take into account the fact we aren't in a committed relationship. If you and the woman were chatting or not slow dancing/grinding I might go up and say hi in a casual/friendly way then make a quick exit.
> 
> If you were locking lips or being really flirty I probably would not say hi because I know my presence would be unwanted.
> 
> Either way, if you contacted me after that I'd mention I saw you on Saturday night. If I was ready for a relationship I'd ask if you had any interest in being exclusive. If I was not ready, I'd ask if you were using protection.
> 
> Basically I would feel unpleasant emotions but I would also take responsibility for my emotions and the handling of them. You would not have done anything wrong unless you rubbed my face in it or acted dismissive towards me.
> 
> There is also the slight chance that I'd see the woman really enjoying your company, realize I didn't have the same feelings toward you, and respectfully bow out of dating.


That seems like a reasonable, well thought out response. I could be completely wrong but I am guessing that would not be the response of the majority of people.

The question about protection would be jarring to me ... because it would be a reminder that I am doing something that is in conflict with my ideals. 

I think that in my case, if we had sex but I felt that I wanted to see other people then at the very least I would explain that to her before arranging or going out with anybody else ... fully expecting that either she would put a hold on sex or stop seeing me. I don't know why I would see other people ... I don't know what I would learn from that that couldn't wait. So more likely, if I felt at that point I wanted to see other people then perhaps that is evidence that I need to move on or at least go out on a few more dates before making that decision. Something at that point is telling me that either I'm not ready to move any further or that she probably isn't the one.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> QFT.
> 
> Even if I had had sex with him, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.


Right, I can't imagine she wouldn't be too hurt unless she had some insecurities ... but she may also write me off, which is not what I wanted.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

FrenchFry said:


> Well...if I'm sleeping with you on the second date I've already filed you in the "not going anywhere but I'm super horny" category. Seeing you with a first date out would probably put you in the "not going anywhere, could probably still sleep with him BUT don't want drama" category so I'd bow out.
> 
> ...
> 
> *moral for me is hide your dates if I'm boning you on the second date if you want more sex from me...I don't like my hair pulled out.*


lol ... ok, so keeping it secret makes it ok? It's really no big deal ... unless you find out. Again, my actions would be inconsistent with my words.


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Right, I can't imagine she wouldn't be too hurt unless she had some insecurities ... but she may also write me off, which is not what I wanted.


Personally, if it reeked of drama, or appeared to, I'd drop it. If not, I'd probably give it another go, pending an exclusivity talk.


----------



## Chuck71

Sorry to chime in late HK. A majority of guys may not be expecting sex on the first date but if it presents itself...

If the girl makes the signals......and sets up 'the play', large number of guys may follow.

As for me...I am outdated. I am still seeing the same gal I met back in January. Minus her and my now X, you have to go back to 1997. Did I sleep with girls on the first date? Yes I did. Did I continue to see them afterwards? Not every time but mostly. It is pot luck, if it blows up....Greek tragedy. If it works out, it's a Lifetime or Hallmark channel romance.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> Personally, if it reeked of drama, or appeared to, I'd drop it. If not, I'd probably give it another go, pending an exclusivity talk.


Well, some people seem to thrive on drama and create plenty of it. That's not me. Life has a way of dishing plenty of it out without me having to create or find it.

... I guess my point is that it is not ok. Something has changed. It is not ok to continue on as if nothing happened. It's not the end of the world but the nature of the relationship is going to change one way or the other because of it.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

One thing I do know is that I'm sure as hell not going to settle. I look back and feel that I settled. I went against my better judgement and married anyway despite the warning signs; they were all there. I knew that in my gut even if I didn't recognize them all. They were more obvious 9 years into my marriage when we had children and although my daughters mean everything to me and I don't regret having them for a second, it hastened the decline of my marriage. Nobody is perfect and I am not expecting perfection but I am not going to settle ... she has to be perfect for me.

I don't know what the best approach is ... multi-dating or serial dating. I have always been a serial relationship guy. I love sex and very open to anything inside (or outside) the bedroom ... but I am traditional in that it is only with the person I am seeing at the time. I don't know if I will have the opportunity to multi-date and if I did, if I would do it. While I want and expect to grow ... and some of it will be uncomfortable ... I also do not want to stop being true to myself. In any case, it should be an adventure.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Lon said:


> .
> 
> The mostly male remaining half of daters who are "sequential" usually just feel lucky if they can approach someone and get a date. But that is because we foolishly assign too much importance to a date.


Don't feel foolish. Its a simple value choice. Dating like that resulted in sh*tty, distanced, generic dates for me. If I'm gonna date like that I may as well not care at all and just stick to hookups.

Whether a date is hard to come by or not, I don't think multi dating is going to be for everyone. I'm a serial dater, have no problem with NSA sex and even *I* found it weak... you're not missing anything other than reruns of the same intro conversations in rapid fire. Snore. Not only were my dates poor, but why be just one of who knows how many dudes she's exploring? Sorry, ill reserve that crap for women I don't have a desire to date. Its certainly not how I want a relationship to begin. "Hey! You remember how you dated 20 guys after our first date? That was so romantic." smh.

Its like no sex and no closeness. wtf is the point?

Funny to find myself in the minority thinking this is too casual for romance and a poor way of finding a meaningful relationship. lol That's a new one for me. 

Good luck folks, I have a busy week ahead so I won't be on much.


----------



## Cosmos

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> To this I agree ... somewhat. I don't see a problem with it when put in those terms. I don't see myself having the opportunity but lots of people do so "go them". I am also not inclined to ask somebody for a date if I've got one lined up already but that's just me. I guess it all depends on what is meant by dating. If she has been dating somebody for 2 months and she accepts a date with me ... I'd wonder why she didn't drop him already ... I don't want to be anybody's exit guy.


And this is where this debate gets confusing. There's a big difference between casual dating and dating someone for 2 months.

I was always very selective when it came to accepting dates, and the acceptance of a date simply meant "You tick the superficial boxes. I would like to find out more about you." No more, no less. I didn't used to entertain romantic feelings towards men I'd just met. A first date was just the first step in the process of finding out if this was someone I might want to get romantically involved with.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



Cosmos said:


> And this is where this debate gets confusing. There's a big difference between casual dating and dating someone for 2 months.


For me there wasn't, with having a child to take care of half the time, being broke and with work I basically was able to date once every other weekend. A couple casual dates with someone would span over a month, if I was multi-dating it would be spread out over several unless I packed then into the same day.


----------



## Pbartender

Lon said:


> For me there wasn't, with having a child to take care of half the time, being broke and with work I basically was able to date once every other weekend. A couple casual dates with someone would span over a month, if I was multi-dating it would be spread out over several unless I packed then into the same day.


I was thinking... Dating can be expensive, even when you split the bill. I don't think I'd be able to afford dating multiple women at the same time.


----------



## angelpixie

Cosmos said:


> And this is where this debate gets confusing. * There's a big difference between casual dating and dating someone for 2 months.
> *
> I was always very selective when it came to accepting dates, and the acceptance of a date simply meant "You tick the superficial boxes. I would like to find out more about you." No more, no less. I didn't used to entertain romantic feelings towards men I'd just met. A first date was just the first step in the process of finding out if this was someone I might want to get romantically involved with.



I do think this is the crux of the whole debate. Where's the dividing line between dating and a relationship. Do you know before a first date that you're going to have sex with that person -- and if so, will it be a ONS or lead to something more? What if sex doesn't occur til date 2 or 3 or 10? If sex is the time you have the 'exclusivity talk,' and sex doesn't occur til you've been on several dates, is it OK to date others up til that point? Do you consider yourself in a relationship (therefore, no dating other people) before sex happens? 

Add to all the values/morals differences we all have, the very real issues of post-divorce money and parenting/schedule issues, and it becomes even more complicated. Getting time off for dating may be really rough for parents with 50/50 schedules, and then there are those who have full or nearly full custody. If there are two people who equally pique your interest, and you have the one day in weeks to yourself on which you can date, do you set up a lunch/coffee with one, and a dinner/movie with another? Or do you pick one over the other without meeting either, taking the chance that you choose the 'wrong' one? I've never been in this situation, but if I was, I'd go for both. I'm not someone who sleeps with someone on a first date. The issue of being overcome with passion on my lunch date, and not being able to make it to the dinner date would never come up. I'm also cautious enough to know that a spark, or lack thereof, on a first date is not always a deciding factor as to whether or not there's a second date with a guy. 

In a situation where a parent's time off is rare, an ideal of 'no multi-dating' would have him/her dating one person possibly over a span of months, just to get to a 2nd or 3rd date to see if they want to continue. Life is too short for that, IMO.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

> I was thinking... Dating can be expensive, even when you split the bill. I don't think I'd be able to afford dating multiple women at the same time.



Every single woman I have gone out with is a single mom. Every single one has either offered to split the bill or picked up the second date costs. Every single one. Not because of any signals I have put out, but because we all have respect for each other as single parents and understand how hard it is to make ends meet.

And I'll add this. If you go out with a single mom that expects you to pick up the tab three times into it..........walk away. This is not a traditional dating senario. You are not going to be in a traditional relationship. That is a signal, for many more things.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

I once read that the most generous people tended to be those with less. I don't have statistics to back that up. So I think those who have to manage their money understand what it costs to date and therefore are more aware and willing to pitch in.

However, I have noticed the times I do NOT pay, have been the times the relationship developed into more. When I split the bill or leave the tip, it seems to be a 1-2 date situation. When I followed the "rules" of dating and "made" the man pay by not reaching for my wallet, I was asked out again and again. 

Could it be chivalry? Need to take care of the woman made me more desirable when I let them take care of me? Is my age/age of the men I date?

I never know what to do, quite honestly. I like to be treated, have the door opened and otherwise be the woman in the relationship but when I go all 'equality' the dynamics shift. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...


----------



## muskrat

I am a little old school. I will absolutely pay for the first date. Having said that as a relationship grows I do appreciate if she is willing to pitch in at times. I am a chivilirous (sp?) guy and want to treat the woman of my affection.


----------



## Chuck71

A guy should pay for the first date. If it is centered on the amount you spend, do you really want to date her? When I was in college, my dates were low cost but imaginative. If a girl is into a guy, she does not care where you go or what money is being spent. 

One of my best dates was a second one, initiated by her, a picnic at the lake and watching the Sun rise. Was only sandwiches and chips but the conversation was epic. Needless to say her family was moving 2,000 miles away soon after. But 25 years later, we still chat....she never forgot our first date and I never forgot her surprise second.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

EnjoliWoman said:


> I once read that the most generous people tended to be those with less. I don't have statistics to back that up. So I think those who have to manage their money understand what it costs to date and therefore are more aware and willing to pitch in.
> 
> However, I have noticed the times I do NOT pay, have been the times the relationship developed into more. When I split the bill or leave the tip, it seems to be a 1-2 date situation. When I followed the "rules" of dating and "made" the man pay by not reaching for my wallet, I was asked out again and again.
> 
> Could it be chivalry? Need to take care of the woman made me more desirable when I let them take care of me? Is my age/age of the men I date?
> 
> I never know what to do, quite honestly. I like to be treated, have the door opened and otherwise be the woman in the relationship but when I go all 'equality' the dynamics shift. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...


Maybe the guy who is paying for the date is taking it a bit more seriously and the other guy is just casual dating? 

I'm imagining that if I'm at a point where I am open to relationships and I ask you out because I'm interested in you, I am going to take it seriously and will even want to pay.

If I'm at a point where I'm just going out to have fun and you were available ... I probably would be more inclined to want to split the bill. We're just having fun, it's nothing serious and I'm not really investing myself into you too much because you're companionship at this point. If it turns into something more, great, but that isn't what I'm looking for. In fact, I might be hesitant to let it go more than a couple of dates at this stage in my life in case you might misinterpret my intentions.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Interesting perspective - maybe so. Seems like more men my age (45) are traditional but I don't want to be seen as high maintenance or a gold digger.


----------



## muskrat

I agree, it should never be about how much the date cost.
My most recent first date went like this. Met at a park in the morning. We walked some trails and had a wonderful conversation. We then drove to a mountain top overlook and walk the paths and took some beautiful pics. After that we went to what looked like a nice Italian restaurant that turned out to be a glorified pizza shop.:rofl: 
In the end I spent less than $30 and a little gas for the drive up the mountain. We both had a fantastic time and are planning our next date.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

A woman got into a guys car on the first date? I only did that once and I took my gun. That first date will NEVER happen with me because I'm not getting in someone's car whom I don't know.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

Believe me, I pay all the time. First date, absolutely. However, I seem to date people that are givers. They are self driven women who have pride in taking care of themselves. I guess those are the types that fit into my "dealbreaker" canvas. At first, I was very hesitant to allow "her" to pay. BUT, as my rebound gf pointed out.....D2H, you really need to let go of your pride and let a woman contribute.

So, I began. I have found with my current gf a mutually giving relationship not only in funds, but in all areas. In fact, one of the things that my current gf said that attracted her to me was that I had it all together, attractive, fun, driven career wise, but humble enough to allow her to be her. And she saw that partly through me being very "ok" if she paid her own way on a date.

But, of course, my dating wasn't very formal. I spent most of my time in groups early on. Online dating was NOT for me, and I just didn't ask people out.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

EnjoliWoman said:


> Interesting perspective - maybe so. Seems like more men my age (45) are traditional but I don't want to be seen as high maintenance or a gold digger.


Well I'm 46 so ...

Men our age also tend to have more disposable income. 

My perspective is different at my age and it could be confused as traditional. When I was younger, it was mostly about the sex. I even had a relationship based completely on that. Now, while that is very important to me, I am also genuinely interested in people. If I'm taking you out then it is likely because I am genuinely interested in getting to know who you are ... and I have no problem footing the bill for that. I want to treat you, giving something of myself even if nothing more comes of it. When I was younger, it was all about me.

I don't think you would come off as a gold digger by not offering to help pay. I would be expecting to pay.

I just got back from a starbucks run with a guy I work with and had a thought. Suppose you and I are on a date ... first, second, third ... doesn't matter ... and you see a starbucks and say ... you know, I could really use a starbucks right now, can we stop there? We go in and you order something and then stand there expecting me to pull out my wallet. That is when a question mark would pop into my head. I'd be more than happy to offer to pay and probably would. I was more than happy to stop at starbucks ... but you 'expected' me to pay. Now, I am sure I wouldn't say anything and I would pay but certainly it would set off a red flag and I might start looking for signs that it would repeat itself. It's one thing to want to give and another thing entirely to be taken advantage of.


----------



## Chuck71

A first date should be a personification of you. If you blow money out both drawer-legs, go out on the town. But if you spend wisely, show it in the date. It is like life, you are dealt the uniform you were born with but it is up to you to utilize it to the degree you choose.


----------



## muskrat

EnjoliWoman said:


> A woman got into a guys car on the first date? I only did that once and I took my gun. That first date will NEVER happen with me because I'm not getting in someone's car whom I don't know.


Truth be told, we have known each other for about 2 months and have talked a lot. This was just our first "date". She actually drove up the mountain, so I got in her car.
We do not live in the same town and I stayed in a hotel. I was close to her home, but I do not know where she lives. You are smart to be cautious and I wouldn't expect someone I have not spent time getting to know to get in my vehicle with me.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

EnjoliWoman said:


> A woman got into a guys car on the first date? I only did that once and I took my gun. That first date will NEVER happen with me because I'm not getting in someone's car whom I don't know.


But what if you already knew the guy and you are now going out on a first date?

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

muskrat said:


> EnjoliWoman said:
> 
> 
> 
> A woman got into a guys car on the first date? I only did that once and I took my gun. That first date will NEVER happen with me because I'm not getting in someone's car whom I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> Truth be told, we have known each other for about 2 months and have talked a lot. This was just our first "date". She actually drove up the mountain, so I got in her car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We do not live in the same town and I stayed in a hotel. I was close to her home, but I do not where she lives. You are smart to be cautious and I wouldn't expect someone I have not spent time getting to know to get in my vehicle with me.
Click to expand...

Beat me to it.  I had a sense she already knew you.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Faithful Wife

I never got into a car with a man on any first date...unless it was a guy I already knew as a friend first.


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## Chuck71

if you are scared of what he might do

why are you dating him?

what gives, get in car second date?

psychopaths feed right into this matra

trust your instincts


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

So now the question becomes ... how many dates before you ... share the same car?

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## Chuck71

good question.....


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

I will have sex with him on the second date ... but I'm sure as hell not getting in his car.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## muskrat

Better yet, have sex or ride in the same car. What comes first?:rofl:


----------



## Faithful Wife

So what's the point boys, that I'm a shameless risk-taking multi-dating wh*re? What are you getting at?


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Faithful Wife said:


> So what's the point boys, that I'm a shameless risk-taking multi-dating wh*re? What are you getting at?


Lol ... not at all. Have to say it never dawned on me somebody would be afraid to get in my car.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## Chuck71

Faithful Wife said:


> So what's the point boys, that I'm a shameless risk-taking multi-dating wh*re? What are you getting at?


Men have no idea at the precautions a woman takes

It never occurred to me until I was seeing patients for

depression and other related emotions

I asked one woman, what went through her mind on a first date

when she got in the car

plethora of replies

one which shocked me....


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Faithful Wife said:


> So what's the point boys, that I'm a shameless risk-taking multi-dating wh*re? What are you getting at?


... and I would never accuse anybody of being a wh*re ... good lord. If I did it would be completely out of jealousy 

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> one which shocked me....


Ok, Chuck, what was it????


----------



## Faithful Wife

Thanks JustSomeGuy...I didn't think so but man, some of the replies here were just weird.

And anyway...men run many risks, too. I have heard so many stalking horror stories about crazy chickas. Whoo boy.


----------



## Giro flee

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Lol ... not at all. Have to say it never dawned on me somebody would be afraid to get in my car.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


The beauty of being a man, you don't worry about being raped and murdered as much. I never get into a car with a man I do not know, I cross the street if I am the only woman and there is a man near me, I don't get into elevators or stairwells if there is only a man in there. I'm sure this isn't a foolproof safety method but better cautious than dead. My dad saw a woman cross the street to avoid him and he got all irritated about it, he never knew women did this and he was well into his fifties.


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> Ok, Chuck, what was it????


she was born a he

told her I did not think so

I was proven wrong


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> she was born a he
> 
> told her I did not think so
> 
> I was proven wrong


Moral of story:

If woman says she used to be a man...take her word for it.


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> ... and I would never accuse anybody of being a wh*re ... good lord. If I did it would be completely out of jealousy
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


Hahaha! You're awesome.


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> Moral of story:
> 
> If woman says she used to be a man...take her word for it.


medical records proved it

I meet a slew of characters in my line of work

but I respected her bravery, being in the South


----------



## angelpixie

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I just got back from a starbucks run with a guy I work with and had a thought. Suppose you and I are on a date ... first, second, third ... doesn't matter ... and you see a starbucks and say ... you know, I could really use a starbucks right now, can we stop there? We go in and you order something and then stand there expecting me to pull out my wallet. That is when a question mark would pop into my head. I'd be more than happy to offer to pay and probably would. I was more than happy to stop at starbucks ... but you 'expected' me to pay. Now, I am sure I wouldn't say anything and I would pay but certainly it would set off a red flag and I might start looking for signs that it would repeat itself. It's one thing to want to give and another thing entirely to be taken advantage of.



This plays into what I posted several pages back now. If I'm the one who suggests we go somewhere, I'm prepared to pay. If he suggests, then I expect he's going to pay. If we're doing something and we both decide, wow, I'm really hungry or thirsty..Yeah, me, too, etc., then I'm prepared to pay my own way. So far, that has worked out fine. I know my own budget, and I can plan accordingly. 

If it progresses, then I'm perfectly fine inviting him over for a home-cooked meal. I can make something really nice, and it won't cost as much as going out. It's tough to strike a balance when you're not swimming in cash.


----------



## Chuck71

Agree Angie........ most any female does not mind one bit

to prep a home cooked meal if the guy proves he is respectful

as a guy, I would not turn that down but would feel compelled

to pay for a date first, 

call it traditionalistic


----------



## Jellybeans

EnjoliWoman said:


> However, I have noticed the times I do NOT pay, have been the times the relationship developed into more. When I split the bill or leave the tip, it seems to be a 1-2 date situation. When I followed the "rules" of dating and "made" the man pay by not reaching for my wallet, I was asked out again and again.
> 
> I like to be treated, have the door opened and otherwise be the woman in the relationship but when I go all 'equality' the dynamics shift. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...


Interesting. 

If I am on a first date with a guy, I always offer to split the bill. I do like if he tells me no though. Later, maybe I could buy us drinks if he insists on paying. 

Like Angel said: 



angelpixie said:


> This plays into what I posted several pages back now. If I'm the one who suggests we go somewhere, I'm prepared to pay. If he suggests, then I expect he's going to pay.


So glad you brought this up:



angelpixie said:


> If it progresses, then I'm perfectly fine inviting him over for a home-cooked meal. I can make something really nice, and it won't cost as much as going out.


How do you mean feel about a woman inviting you to her home for a home-cooked dinner (she is preparing)? What do you think about that? Is it too pushy? Or is it just right? How many dates is this ok by? What do you guys think?


----------



## COguy

Jellybeans said:


> How do you mean feel about a woman inviting you to her home for a home-cooked dinner (she is preparing)? What do you thi nk about that? Is it too pushy? Or is it just right? How many dates is this ok by? What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> If it progresses, then I'm perfectly fine inviting him over for a home-cooked meal. I can make something really nice, and it won't cost as much as going out. It's tough to strike a balance when you're not swimming in cash


I think you'll be hard pressed to find a guy who doesn't think this is awesome. Unless you suck at cooking he's going to enjoy eating, and you inviting him to your house.

Because there is easy access to your bedroom, I wouldn't do this until you are a few dates in so either A) You are ready to do the deed or B) You have had ample time to share your feelings on the sex issue and this isn't sending mixed messages.


----------



## Chuck71

Originally Posted by EnjoliWoman View Post 
However, I have noticed the times I do NOT pay, have been the times the relationship developed into more. When I split the bill or leave the tip, it seems to be a 1-2 date situation. When I followed the "rules" of dating and "made" the man pay by not reaching for my wallet, I was asked out again and again. 

I like to be treated, have the door opened and otherwise be the woman in the relationship but when I go all 'equality' the dynamics shift. Damned if you do, damned if you don't... 
Interesting. 

If I am on a first date with a guy, I always offer to split the bill. I do like if he tells me no though. Later, maybe I could buy us drinks if he insists on paying. 


great example.....it would be polite to offer, that is the key

anytime I have to bum $? from a friend I always 

hand it back to them , 99/100 they say keep it

key, I offered

plus if they need $?.....they know to ask me in future

anytime you keep money out of things

it seems to flow so much better


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: How many dates before sex?*



Chuck71 said:


> Agree Angie........ most any female does not mind one bit
> 
> to prep a home cooked meal if the guy proves he is respectful
> 
> as a guy, I would not turn that down but would feel compelled
> 
> to pay for a date first,
> 
> call it traditionalistic


Thinking back on my somewhat limited dating history, I've never been with anyone capable of making much of a home cooked meal. I tend to be the more culinary inclined, and that is not saying much. I guess all the cooks are taken.


----------



## angelpixie

Lon said:


> Thinking back on my somewhat limited dating history, I've never been with anyone capable of making much of a home cooked meal. I tend to be the more culinary inclined, and that is not saying much. *I guess all the cooks are taken.*



 I hear I make a mean lasagna.


----------



## Ceegee

Jellybeans said:


> Interesting.
> 
> If I am on a first date with a guy, I always offer to split the bill. I do like if he tells me no though. Later, maybe I could buy us drinks if he insists on paying.
> 
> Like Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> So glad you brought this up:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you mean feel about a woman inviting you to her home for a home-cooked dinner (she is preparing)? What do you thi nk about that? Is it too pushy? Or is it just right? How many dates is this ok by? What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> If it progresses, then I'm perfectly fine inviting him over for a home-cooked meal. I can make something really nice, and it won't cost as much as going out. It's tough to strike a balance when you're not swimming in cash


I have never in my life not paid on a date.

My current girlfriend asked me to dinner and a movie on our third date but said if I don't allow her to pay then the dates off. So, I let her.

Now we take turns. Usually I'll pay when we go out and she buys all the groceries when she cooks for me.

I love when she cooks for me!!!

She's half Italian and half Mexican. This woman can cook her a55 off.


----------



## Chuck71

Lon said:


> Thinking back on my somewhat limited dating history, I've never been with anyone capable of making much of a home cooked meal. I tend to be the more culinary inclined, and that is not saying much. I guess all the cooks are taken.


You're kind of right on that regard

in the South, lots of women are capable in the kitchen

most guys here have a hard time making tomato soup

cooking, like sports, I saw a competition when I was younger

over the years I concentrated on about a dozen things

and would put it up against anyone's today

but for variety, nah, most females have a wider array of talent


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> I have never in my life not paid on a date.
> 
> My current girlfriend asked me to dinner and a movie on our third date but said if I don't allow her to pay then the dates off. So, I let her.
> 
> Now we take turns. Usually I'll pay when we go out and she buys all the groceries when she cooks for me.
> 
> I love when she cooks for me!!!
> 
> She's half Italian and half Mexican. This woman can cook her a55 off.


stock up on heartburn meds

your esoph will burn

but those gals can cook like no one's biz


----------



## Pbartender

Lon said:


> I guess all the cooks are taken.


I'm not, but you're really not my type.


----------



## Chuck71

Pbartender said:


> I'm not, but you're really not my type.


:rofl:

speaking of great cooks.....PB would post what he made

sounded so good you would gain three pounds reading it


----------



## Pbartender

Jellybeans said:


> How do you mean feel about a woman inviting you to her home for a home-cooked dinner (she is preparing)? What do you think about that? Is it too pushy? Or is it just right? How many dates is this ok by? What do you guys think?


It's a great idea.

And I've found that it seems to work equally well for a man to invite a woman over to his home for a home-cooked dinner.

I wouldn't ask or accept, though, until after a few dates had gone by... Rules for getting into someone's car should apply to someone's house just the same.


----------



## Dedicated2Her

All this crap just makes me glad to be in a great relationship. Goodness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bravenewworld

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I don't know what the best approach is ... multi-dating or serial dating. I have always been a serial relationship guy. I love sex and very open to anything inside (or outside) the bedroom ... but I am traditional in that it is only with the person I am seeing at the time. I don't know if I will have the opportunity to multi-date and if I did, if I would do it. While I want and expect to grow ... and some of it will be uncomfortable ... I also do not want to stop being true to myself. In any case, it should be an adventure.


As brutal as divorce is, I think one of the gifts is we get to redefine our relationship not only with others, but also with ourselves.

Prior to my marriage and separation I always dated one person and demanded the same because I believed I couldn't handle either of us seeing anyone else. I thought sex couldn't be loving and affectionate if I was not "in love" or in a committed LTR. I now know neither is true (for me.) 

Among my social circle, I see many men and woman jumping into second marriages and LTR's who really haven't figured out what they really want out of a partner or even who they are post-separation. There is a certain loss of identity that is very traumatic and must be dealt with before you can fully give yourself to someone else. 

I love that you used the word adventure. Having survived a sexless and affectionate-less marriage, that is the BEST part! Holding someone's hand again, kissing a person who actually WANTS to kiss you and does so with passion, looking into someone's eyes and smiling during intercourse, giving/receiving pleasure unabashedly and without any awkwardness or resentment…..

Good things are out there if we're kind and brave - and ANYONE working on rebuilding their life after separating from a cheating/lying/frigid spouse is nothing but brave.


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## Jellybeans

Pbartender said:


> And I've found that it seems to work equally well for a man to invite a woman over to his home for a home-cooked dinner.


Yes! I love a man who can cook!



bravenewworld said:


> I see many men and woman jumping into second marriages and LTR's who really haven't figured out what they really want out of a partner or even who they are post-separation. *There is a certain loss of identity that is very traumatic and must be dealt with before you can fully give yourself to someone else. *


This is so friggin spot on, Brave. Divorce is TRAUMATIC (It was for me!) but there is also another crazy traumatic layer to that--the loss of your pre-marriage identity the you need to re-establish. It's not for the faint. When married/partnered, a part of us does become that couple, so to have to sort that out again is a feat. It's insane!

I have never been able to understand how some folks go from a straight marriage into dating someone else, with no time (or little time) in between. It's not been my experience and seems unfathomable to me. I had to go through so much sh!t during separation/divorce and my feelings were fcked twenty ways to Sunday, so even entertaining a date seemed impossible!


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## EnjoliWoman

Chuck71 said:


> if you are scared of what he might do
> 
> why are you dating him?
> 
> what gives, get in car second date?
> 
> psychopaths feed right into this matra
> 
> trust your instincts


When internet dating I meet them somewhere and I do listen to my gut. But remember Ted Bundy was quite charming. 

If I've met someone out in person it cuts down on a step.

Generally by the 3rd date I'm OK with them knowing where I live and accepting a ride with them but I always tell my BFF where I'll be and who I'm with and send her his profile link or personal information that I know just in case. 

I usually glean enough information through email or conversation to start a bit of a background check on him and verify information. If everything he tells me matches up with what I find, the trust level goes up. If things don't jive I ask more questions. 

I'm pretty decent at checking people out. And when in doubt a handbag plus a .44 goes pretty well together. I'm not paranoid but I'd rather be prepared and not have to use it than need it and not have it.


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## EnjoliWoman

COguy said:


> I think you'll be hard pressed to find a guy who doesn't think this is awesome. Unless you suck at cooking he's going to enjoy eating, and you inviting him to your house.
> 
> Because there is easy access to your bedroom, I wouldn't do this until you are a few dates in so either A) You are ready to do the deed or B) You have had ample time to share your feelings on the sex issue and this isn't sending mixed messages.


Agreed on all points.

I have heard, and then proved correct, that if you go to a guy's house or his comes to yours, he assumes there will be sex. I do not offer to cook dinner or go to his place unless I'm clear that there is no ex or I'm ready for it.

One time I merely MET him at his place before he headed out in one car (second date) and he assumed after that I should come in for sex. Uh, no.


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## Jellybeans

EnjoliWoman said:


> And when in doubt a handbag plus a .44 goes pretty well together.


:smthumbup::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Pbartender

EnjoliWoman said:


> Agreed on all points.
> 
> I have heard, and then proved correct, that if you go to a guy's house or his comes to yours, he assumes there will be sex. I do not offer to cook dinner or go to his place unless I'm clear that there is no ex or I'm ready for it.
> 
> One time I merely MET him at his place before he headed out in one car (second date) and he assumed after that I should come in for sex. Uh, no.


Speaking as a guy, it's usually more of an opportunistic hope than an outright assumption... Even the guys who don't ask outright at least consider the possibility, no matter how briefly.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Pbartender said:


> EnjoliWoman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed on all points.
> 
> I have heard, and then proved correct, that if you go to a guy's house or his comes to yours, he assumes there will be sex. I do not offer to cook dinner or go to his place unless I'm clear that there is no ex or I'm ready for it.
> 
> One time I merely MET him at his place before he headed out in one car (second date) and he assumed after that I should come in for sex. Uh, no.
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking as a guy, it's usually more of an opportunistic hope than an outright assumption... Even the guys who don't ask outright at least consider the possibility, no matter how briefly.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this. I would not make that assumption. Of course, I would recognize it as a possibility.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## EnjoliWoman

:smthumbup:Good to know, guys!


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## JustSomeGuyWho

bravenewworld said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what the best approach is ... multi-dating or serial dating. I have always been a serial relationship guy. I love sex and very open to anything inside (or outside) the bedroom ... but I am traditional in that it is only with the person I am seeing at the time. I don't know if I will have the opportunity to multi-date and if I did, if I would do it. While I want and expect to grow ... and some of it will be uncomfortable ... I also do not want to stop being true to myself. In any case, it should be an adventure.
> 
> 
> 
> As brutal as divorce is, I think one of the gifts is we get to redefine our relationship not only with others, but also with ourselves.
> 
> Prior to my marriage and separation I always dated one person and demanded the same because I believed I couldn't handle either of us seeing anyone else. I thought sex couldn't be loving and affectionate if I was not "in love" or in a committed LTR. I now know neither is true (for me.)
> 
> Among my social circle, I see many men and woman jumping into second marriages and LTR's who really haven't figured out what they really want out of a partner or even who they are post-separation. There is a certain loss of identity that is very traumatic and must be dealt with before you can fully give yourself to someone else.
> 
> I love that you used the word adventure. Having survived a sexless and affectionate-less marriage, that is the BEST part! Holding someone's hand again, kissing a person who actually WANTS to kiss you and does so with passion, looking into someone's eyes and smiling during intercourse, giving/receiving pleasure unabashedly and without any awkwardness or resentment…..
> 
> Good things are out there if we're kind and brave - and ANYONE working on rebuilding their life after separating from a cheating/lying/frigid spouse is nothing but brave.
Click to expand...

What a great post. It encapsulates what I'm missing in my life to the possibilities of the next great adventure in a way that completely resonates for me.

That description of the joys and wonderment of intimacy was like a dagger to me. Hard to read but right on point.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## 3Xnocharm

What Guys Really Think ... Of Sex On The First Date | YourTango


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## 3Xnocharm

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I'd agree with this. I would not make that assumption. Of course, I would recognize it as a possibility.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


So, is a guy inviting a woman over to his house a sign of how he feels about her or the dating relationship? I mean, if you invite her over, does this signal that you are more seriously interested in her? Or is it not really a big deal?


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## JustSomeGuyWho

3Xnocharm said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd agree with this. I would not make that assumption. Of course, I would recognize it as a possibility.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_
> 
> 
> 
> So, is a guy inviting a woman over to his house a sign of how he feels about her or the dating relationship? I mean, if you invite her over, does this signal that you are more seriously interested in her? Or is it not really a big deal?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for most guys but I think yes, for me it would represent a good step. I am not going to invite a woman over that I don't have a good feeling about. It's my home ... not my love shack.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Faithful Wife

3x said: "So, is a guy inviting a woman over to his house a sign of how he feels about her or the dating relationship? I mean, if you invite her over, does this signal that you are more seriously interested in her? Or is it not really a big deal?"

I had a guy I was dating invite me to his family home for Thanksgiving dinner, to meet his whole family.

At the time I thought "Wow! He must be thinking long term with me to actually invite me to Thanksgiving." 

Nope. Turns out he invites who ever he is dating during the holidays to his family home...I was just the one he was dating that year.


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## Mavash.

3Xnocharm said:


> So, is a guy inviting a woman over to his house a sign of how he feels about her or the dating relationship? I mean, if you invite her over, does this signal that you are more seriously interested in her? Or is it not really a big deal?


Again I haven't dated in 20 years but on this I'm with FW there were times that it meant nothing.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Faithful Wife said:


> 3x said: "So, is a guy inviting a woman over to his house a sign of how he feels about her or the dating relationship? I mean, if you invite her over, does this signal that you are more seriously interested in her? Or is it not really a big deal?"
> 
> I had a guy I was dating invite me to his family home for Thanksgiving dinner, to meet his whole family.
> 
> At the time I thought "Wow! He must be thinking long term with me to actually invite me to Thanksgiving."
> 
> Nope. Turns out he invites who ever he is dating during the holidays to his family home...I was just the one he was dating that year.


That would be a HUGE step for me. My family has very traditional values and my mom is pretty judgemental. They will make a big deal about it. If I take someone home to meet them then you can bet I am serious and she is someone I am proud to take home. I would definitely have to be in love with long term aspirations. If she were to spend the night there, it would have to be in separate bedrooms keeping in line with their values. The only woman I have ever taken home to meet the family is the woman I married.

My siblings I believe would all share that view. Can't remember any of them taking someone home who wasn't a very serious relationship.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Ceegee

3Xnocharm said:


> So, is a guy inviting a woman over to his house a sign of how he feels about her or the dating relationship? I mean, if you invite her over, does this signal that you are more seriously interested in her? Or is it not really a big deal?


I've been dating current gf for 5 months. She has not yet met my family. 

For me it would be a huge step. 

We are at a point where I'd be comfortable introducing her to parents and sister but not the kids.


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## HappyKaty

3Xnocharm said:


> So, is a guy inviting a woman over to his house a sign of how he feels about her or the dating relationship? I mean, if you invite her over, does this signal that you are more seriously interested in her? Or is it not really a big deal?


A guy invited me over last week. I was there for half an hour before he started trying to feel me up. 

It obviously depends on the guy. And, I obviously look easy. :/


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## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> A guy invited me over last week. I was there for half an hour before he started trying to feel me up.
> 
> It obviously depends on the guy. And, I obviously look easy. :/


Doubt it HK, I'm sure you were just stunning.

Question though ... how many times had you seen him?

The whole reason I ask is I'm curious about what the right timing is. Should a guy expect a signal of some sort, wait until she makes the first move, or take a risk ... in which case he is either making the first move or he's a creep for moving in too soon. I never knew the right answer to those situations, lol.


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## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Doubt it HK, I'm sure you were just stunning.
> 
> Question though ... how many times had you seen him?
> 
> The whole reason I ask is I'm curious about what the right timing is. Should a guy expect a signal of some sort, wait until she makes the first move, or take a risk ... in which case he is either making the first move or he's a creep for moving in too soon. I never knew the right answer to those situations, lol.


Well, we've been friends for a few months. We had officially gone on two dates, prior to him inviting me over.


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## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Doubt it HK, I'm sure you were just stunning.
> 
> Question though ... how many times had you seen him?
> 
> The whole reason I ask is I'm curious about what the right timing is. Should a guy expect a signal of some sort, wait until she makes the first move, or take a risk ... in which case he is either making the first move or he's a creep for moving in too soon. I never knew the right answer to those situations, lol.


Well, we've been friends for a few months. We had officially gone on two dates, prior to him inviting me over.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> Well, we've been friends for a few months. We had officially gone on two dates, prior to him inviting me over.


Hmmm. I don't know you personally, if the two of you had ever discussed it, what kind of chemistry there was ... and I don't know what the two of you were doing leading up to that so it is hard to say if I would do that in that situation.

If the two of you were making out and it was getting steamy and I were in his shoes ... it's funny that I think I would be more comfortable making that move if you had invited me to your place. Ok, not THAT move ... a move leading up to that would be more appropriate. I think if I had invited you to my place, I would not want to put additional pressure or make you uncomfortable so I would probably be looking for you to take the lead or give me a signal ... worst case is I take it too far and you immediately establish the boundary. If I'm really interested in you I would respect that boundary but I would probably then be looking for you to let me know when we can go further. Probably a good time for the talk about expectations right then.

Of course the right answer is whatever is right for you.


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## bravenewworld

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Hmmm. I don't know you personally, if the two of you had ever discussed it, what kind of chemistry there was ... and I don't know what the two of you were doing leading up to that so it is hard to say if I would do that in that situation.
> 
> If the two of you were making out and it was getting steamy and I were in his shoes ... it's funny that I think I would be more comfortable making that move if you had invited me to your place. Ok, not THAT move ... a move leading up to that would be more appropriate. I think if I had invited you to my place, I would not want to put additional pressure or make you uncomfortable so I would probably be looking for you to take the lead or give me a signal ... worst case is I take it too far and you immediately establish the boundary. If I'm really interested in you I would respect that boundary but I would probably then be looking for you to let me know when we can go further. Probably a good time for the talk about expectations right then.
> 
> Of course the right answer is whatever is right for you.


I think sometimes the problem is some people aren't good at reading the body language of others. I know some guys will "bust a move" on a woman who is giving zero indication she welcomes it. 

Regarding dating seduction - I think a good way to start is with friendly light touches and gauge her reaction. If she starts touching you back, playing with her hair, long eye contact, etc. that's a good sign. 

On the other hand, if she won't meet your eyes, crosses her arms, or is rigid in her posture it's probably time to hold your horses. 

Also listen for the breathing rhythm of the other person - can be an indicator of how relaxed they are and whether they are enjoying the direction of the evening.


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## bravenewworld

HappyKaty said:


> Well, we've been friends for a few months. We had officially gone on two dates, prior to him inviting me over.


If you don't mind me asking - were you not interested in the activity at all or was his timing just off?

Edited to add: I'm sure you don't look easy - more like a tall drink of water and he was REAL thirsty.


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## Cosmos

Faithful Wife said:


> I never got into a car with a man on any first date...unless it was a guy I already knew as a friend first.


^^^ Or introduced to him by a friend.

After a first date I will have sussed him out sufficiently to know whether he's trustworthy enough for a second date.


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## arbitrator

*To me, inviting someone over doesn't really mean much of anything other than for maybe having dinner, meeting family, spending recreational time together, et.al

More often than not, if there is any mutual continuity within their newfound relationship, sex will normally occur of it's own accord, regardless of where you are at the time!*


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## Cosmos

I was introduced to my SO by a mutual friend. We met for coffee, then he invited me out on a date. He had obviously put a lot of thought into that incredibly memorable date, and I broke all my own 'rules' by planting an affectionate kiss on him at the end of the evening (I can still remember his surprised look!).

I then invited him to dinner the following Sunday, and things progressed slowly and naturally from there. We've now been together for 3.5 years.


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## thunderstruck

3Xnocharm said:


> So, is a guy inviting a woman over to his house a sign of how he feels about her or the dating relationship? I mean, if you invite her over, does this signal that you are more seriously interested in her? Or is it not really a big deal?


For me it was never a big deal, so I don't think you can read too much into that. He may just be trying to score...


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## thunderstruck

bravenewworld said:


> problem is some people aren't good at reading the body language of others.


Truth.


bravenewworld said:


> starts touching you back, playing with her hair, long eye contact, etc. that's a good sign.


True, but then I had some who slammed on their brakes quickly when I tried to ramp things up.


bravenewworld said:


> On the other hand, if she won't meet your eyes, crosses her arms, or is rigid in her posture it's probably time to hold your horses.


True, but then I had some who did all that, and then basically jumped on me after I didn't make a move. :scratchhead:


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## HappyKaty

bravenewworld said:


> If you don't mind me asking - were you not interested in the activity at all or was his timing just off?
> 
> Edited to add: I'm sure you don't look easy - more like a tall drink of water and he was REAL thirsty.


I wasn't interested, at that time. I liked him and wanted to get to know him...not have sex with him.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

thunderstruck said:


> bravenewworld said:
> 
> 
> 
> problem is some people aren't good at reading the body language of others.
> 
> 
> 
> Truth.
> 
> 
> bravenewworld said:
> 
> 
> 
> starts touching you back, playing with her hair, long eye contact, etc. that's a good sign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, but then I had some who slammed on their brakes quickly when I tried to ramp things up.
> 
> 
> bravenewworld said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, if she won't meet your eyes, crosses her arms, or is rigid in her posture it's probably time to hold your horses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, but then I had some who did all that, and then basically jumped on me after I didn't make a move.
Click to expand...

I think of my own body language. I am not super comfortable around people and often do things like cross my arms or otherwise seem unapproachable no matter what I might be thinking. I AM a super affectionate guy ... once that barrier is crossed.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Jellybeans

On the subject of inviting people over to your home: I personally wouldn't unless I felt a connection and had been out a few times with that person. I wouldn't invite some random dude over. No,thanks.



thunderstruck said:


> True, but then I had some who did all that, and then basically jumped on me after I didn't make a move. :scratchhead:


She was a whackadoodle, Thunder. Dodged bullet.



HappyKaty said:


> I wasn't interested, at that time. I liked him and wanted to get to know him...not have sex with him.


IT's good that you left. He prob expected or wanted action and you were right to tell him, No, thanks.


----------



## HappyKaty

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I think of my own body language. I am not super comfortable around people and often do things like cross my arms or otherwise seem unapproachable no matter what I might be thinking. I AM a super affectionate guy ... once that barrier is crossed.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Me, too. I'm incredibly reserved, at first. Once you break me, it's game on. 

Or, after a couple of shots of tequila.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

HappyKaty said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think of my own body language. I am not super comfortable around people and often do things like cross my arms or otherwise seem unapproachable no matter what I might be thinking. I AM a super affectionate guy ... once that barrier is crossed.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_
> 
> 
> 
> Me, too. I'm incredibly reserved, at first. Once you break me, it's game on.
> 
> Or, after a couple of shots of tequila.
Click to expand...

Lol .... Tequila

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Jellybeans

I can't drink tequila. It's the devil.


----------



## HappyKaty

Jellybeans said:


> I can't drink tequila. It's the devil.


Agreed. I stay FAR away from it. It has been the reason for 96% of my bad decisions.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Mmmmmmm..... tequila.


----------



## NoWhere

HappyKaty said:


> Agreed. I stay FAR away from it. It has been the reason for 96% of my bad decisions.


 Just 96%. What about the other 4%


----------



## HappyKaty

NoWhere said:


> Just 96%. What about the other 4%


The other 4% is just me being a BPD idiot. 

NoWhere! I've missed you, hun!


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

My nemesis was vodka. I was my dorm vodka gimlet champion in college. Watch out for those reserved guys 

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## EnjoliWoman

HappyKaty said:


> NoWhere! I've missed you, hun!


Ditto! What's up? Hope all is well!


----------



## NoWhere

HappyKaty said:


> The other 4% is just me being a BPD idiot.
> 
> NoWhere! I've missed you, hun!


You're so sweet! 

4% is good. I can only blame tequila for about 82% of my bad decisions. 



EnjoliWoman said:


> Ditto! What's up? Hope all is well!


 Yes everything is going pretty well. I've had a few bad things happen recently, but the pain of my divorce and the loss of my wife are well behind me. Its amazing how devastated you can feel after a divorce and with time it all vanishes. I guess time does heal all wounds.

I guess I'm derailing this thread so back on topic. Hmm how many dates before sex huh? One. Why you ask? because I'm a Ho. :rofl:


----------



## HappyKaty

NoWhere said:


> You're so sweet!
> 
> 4% is good. I can only blame tequila for about 82% of my bad decisions.


18% isn't too bad, either, in the scheme of things. 



NoWhere said:


> Yes everything is going pretty well. I've had a few bad things happen recently, but the pain of my divorce and the loss of my wife are well behind me.* Its amazing how devastated you can feel after a divorce and with time it all vanishes.* I guess time does heal all wounds.


So, SO true! I just knew I couldn't live without him. But, look at me now...living and sh1t. 



NoWhere said:


> I guess I'm derailing this thread so back on topic. Hmm how many dates before sex huh? One. Why you ask? because I'm a Ho. :rofl:


Stop lyin'. You don't even wait on the date. You sit outside their bedroom windows and wait until they're asleep.


----------



## angelpixie

NoWhere said:


> I guess I'm derailing this thread so back on topic. Hmm how many dates before sex huh? One. Why you ask? because I'm a Ho. :rofl:


So we should call you HoWhere now?


----------



## Dedicated2Her

HappyKaty said:


> Agreed. I stay FAR away from it. It has been the reason for 96% of my bad decisions.


Well, bad decisions with tequila sure are fun while you are doing them!!!!! I embrace the tequila. Problem with tequila, I ALWAYS end up naked on top of the covers passed out on the bed. EVERY TIME.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Ah Tequila and BPD chicks... responsible for some of my favorite bad decisions.


----------



## aston

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Ah Tequila and BPD chicks... responsible for some of my favorite bad decisions.


HAHA Why was it a bad decision? You both got something out of it so stop blaming Senor' Tequila :lol:


----------

