# "It's none of your business!"



## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I have been away from the forum for sometime - about 2-3 weeks. 

I want to relay what happened. Went on match dot com and met a nice woman. We clicked. She did disclose she was separated and I did ask her over and over if it was over. She said it was over for years. And your stb-x is cool with it? Yes, she reassured me.

I personally couldn't really believe it, since it was since just July 2010 they separated but I naively thought, "Okay. . .well, every divorce is different." (which is true)

Okay, you can all see where this is going, even if I couldn't.

Well, he finds out about me and pitches a fit. Calls her a hore. Threatens to withdraw fathering entirely. Threatens to withdraw child support. He's gonna get her in court saying she's an adulterer. All the usual.

Apparently, it was over in *her *mind, but not in his.

Despite the very hot sex, I severed the relationship the next day. I told her I now have zero sexual interest in her and it's the honest truth but I am very happy to be friends with her. Of course, she is devastated, probably doublely now. . .but it's really how I feel. I can't seem to view her sexually any more. All I keep feeling when I think of her is her kids yearning for a father. (I took her daughter and my son out for ice cream the other day)

The weird thing, and I'd like to delve into female psychology a bit here (and why I am posting here vs. the Divorce forum) is this woman said what I found a very female statement:

"It's none of his business what I am doing."

My office manager, who we confide in each other, reaffirmed her position saying the same thing, almost unsolicited. My ex-wife said the same thing - "it's none of your business" during my divorce when I was devastated she was bringing a man into my/our home. 

Now my position is a marriage is a partnership until dissolved or there is agreement between two partners with disclosure and so forth (an open relationship at that point between soon to be divorcees). That is, I just can't leave and go run up credit cards and say to my wife, "Well, that's none of your business." I don't think you can do the same thing sexually (IMO).

Even my attorney opined in a letter, "There is no right to privacy in a marriage between the spouses." ( a constant assertion that women seem to feel entitled to )

Yet, I find the "rebelliousness" a very common theme among women going thru divorce or have been through it. In fact, it's almost universal in my encounters.

Is it a "You aren't the boss of me!" sentiment? Would the ladies of the forum perhaps illuminate me?

It seems men at least have the decency to lie, sneak and keep it discreet like I did during my divorce and I was seeing another woman.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I disagree with her wholeheartedly. It IS his business. He is still married to her. Until the ink is dry on the divorce papers, everything a spouse does is each others business. 
I don't know the circumstances that created the separation and maybe you didn't get the full story. What if she wanted to end the marriage but is then out dating (and having sex) while still married . That is cheating in my book. No wonder he went ballistic and rightfully so. 
Disrepectful to her husband, her kids and you. I am sorry you had to go through that. Be glad though, any women who would say that sounds really selfish and entitled.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SG,
Let me get this straight. They have been physically separated for 6+ months. 

And the "way" he is asserting his sexual "ownership rights" is by harming the children. And that is via 2 paths:
- Breaking the LAW by not paying what he owes and
- Not fathering them - hmmm - hmmm

And you see HER as the bad guy? 

Given the way he reacted - is it all that surprising this is not a topic she wanted to proactively raise with him? 

She may have issues - but - her ex is SO effed up - there is no basis for having a view of what she is like with a "sane" man.

Up until today I sympathized with your overall situation. It is fairly clear to me now that we have such a different view of the world that I could never understand what your posts "really" mean. 




Scannerguard said:


> I have been away from the forum for sometime - about 2-3 weeks.
> 
> I want to relay what happened. Went on match dot com and met a nice woman. We clicked. She did disclose she was separated and I did ask her over and over if it was over. She said it was over for years. And your stb-x is cool with it? Yes, she reassured me.
> 
> ...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Yah her attitude won't get her far. None of your business? But let's be in a relationship? Not so much. She feels guilty, as well she should, and is trying to deflect blame. Conversations about it, getting into her "business" does not allow her to face her culpability.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Still married, still his/her business. That's why I have a "divorce must be finalized" rule. I don't want to end up a part of that mess.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> SG,
> Let me get this straight. They have been physically separated for 6+ months.
> 
> And the "way" he is asserting his sexual "ownership rights" is by harming the children. And that is via 2 paths:
> ...


I am not condoning how he acted but can you not see his position? What if she said I need to move out to "find myself" and he gives her space thinking it will help THEM out and then she goes on dating websites to find a new man? What if she has cheated in the past? We don't know the details. What we do know is a woman who is married having sex with somebody who is not her husband. Period. SHE is in the wrong here.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Given the way he reacted - is it all that surprising this is not a topic she wanted to proactively raise with him?


I misunderstood completely. I thought it was SG she did not want to communicate with.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> /
> It seems men at least have the decency to lie, sneak and keep it discreet like I did during my divorce and I was seeing another woman.


Are you being funny? How/when is lying and sneaking "decent"?


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## notaname (Feb 4, 2011)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Are you being funny? How/when is lying and sneaking "decent"?


When there is a penis between your legs.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

If he is basing his support of his own children on his wife's behavior, there is every reason to believe that this man is eeffed up. No wonder his wife wants out. It is interesting that you did not see that. 

My question is why did you decide to take his side? Her view of things was as valid as his. It seems you may have benefited by talking to her and finding out the details and not jump to conclusions. 

Why you would want to remain friends with her is beyond me. First of all, you say you are not sexually attracted to her. Ian says I don't understand men but I know this much, no man wants to be friends with a woman he is not interested in having sex with, period. Secondly, you seem to dislike her or at lest consider your self the more moral of the two of you.

Be honest with yourself, I think your response to this is strange and mixed up.

You seem to be convinced that you hurt her by what you did. The relationship was short-lived so I am certain she is not too broken up about it. Besides, if she was so in to you that she wants to continue a relationship why stay friends with her knowing that you don't want what she wants. To feel desired by a woman but rejecting her?

I may be off but that's the way I see it. At any rate, I don't think you are in a place to offer friendship to women. A normal reaction for a man involved with a woman is to hear her out and support her in her time of trouble. 

He may decide after a talk with her and some careful thought that he could not continue with the relationship. What you did was an abrupt turn around with what sounds like no consideration. 

Are you certain you are not hurt and feel more than you are admitting to yourself? The desire to remain friends may be the key to your true feelings. Seems you rushed to distance yourself and to deny emotional involvement like she cheated on you. That is not only unfriendly but kind of cold.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Why you would want to remain friends with her is beyond me. First of all, you say you are not sexually attracted to her. Ian says I don't understand men but I know this much, no man wants to be friends with a woman he is not interested in having sex with, period.


What?!?!?! Now in this case, since it was a dating/sexual relationship to start, ok. But do you mean this in a general? I have so many male friends that have no interest in sleeping with me, it is not funny.

The whole notion that the ONLY interaction that males and females can have seems crazy to me. I have professional relationships, friendships...


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I can kind of see that woman's point, but only if they both knew quite clearly it was over. When I separated from my first husband for the last time, we both knew I was filing for divorce and it was absolutely over. I filed. At that point, it was none of his business what I did. Unlike this woman, though, I did wait until my divorce was final to start dating. I just felt that that was the right thing to do. 

While I agree that in a (good) marriage there is no such thing as privacy and that there is nothing that is none of the spouse's business. But I think that once the marriage is clearly over and both parties know a divorce is going to happen, then anything that does not affect both of them (financial stuff, stuff w/ kids, etc that would impact them both or could impact them both) is none of the spouse's business. Changing jobs, dating, what they have for dinner...all things that are none of the spouse's business.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Ok. I'm going to take a different view. If a couple decides to separate, than that should be the same as divorced as it relates to dating. 
My wife had an affair. We sepatated. Does that mean I morally can't date because I'm technically still married so I should hang out an twiddle my thumbs until the papers get signed? And should I also feel that my estranged wife gets to decide how I continue my life because there is no ink yet?

Not likely! After my separation, I was out trying on different women for size, seeing if any of them were suitable for more serious relations, and possibly sex. There was no way in hell I was going to sit at home by myself while my wife continued with her affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Brennan said:


> I am not condoning how he acted but can you not see his position? What if she said I need to move out to "find myself" and he gives her space thinking it will help THEM out and then she goes on dating websites to find a new man? What if she has cheated in the past? We don't know the details. What we do know is a woman who is married having sex with somebody who is not her husband. Period. SHE is in the wrong here.



Is she really in the wrong? By that same logic, we can make up totally new arguments....
What if he beat the crap out of het every night? What if he wad so emotionally abusive that she needed yo get away, and now she just wants to get on with her life?

Personally, by the OPs sudden reaction to this, maybe its better that they aren't seeing each other anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Typing on a blackberry sucks, btw.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Some men pay NO attention to their wives when married and living a married life, and then all of the sudden they want to know everything when separated. This, in my experience, is why women say, "It is none of your business." The women have been managing their own lives--and the lives of everyone in the family--on their own for a long time. They have learned to be without their h's attention or interest or input. They had probably tried for sometime to engage their h in family and couple-life more, with little to no success. 

Regardless of your decision (that is completely up to you), one can easily see why a person would choose not to disclose information to someone as f*cked up as this man. As MEM said, the guy's threats were so out of line that it is both outrageous and so sad. His poor kids. I'm sure there are times this woman wonders if she should just let him take himself out of their lives, and is tempted. She must wonder how he will hurt them when she is NOT around--what kinds of awful, controlling threats he'll make to keep them under his heel. Maybe he doesn't, maybe he won't. The only evidence is what he already told her. But that is chilling to the point where if she could get it on paper, a court would NOT look at him as a stable parent. His kids are tools to control the spouse who has separated herself from him. Tell her to save the documentation and perhaps see if her lawyer can use it to make sure that father gets the counseling he desperately needs. Honestly, this type of statement frightens me, b/c his kids are nothing but tools to be used as he wishes, and people who view their children like that are dangerous. 

But I'm off track, and I hope I answered your question.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sis,
Thank you for your post. You said it better than I did.




sisters359 said:


> Some men pay NO attention to their wives when married and living a married life, and then all of the sudden they want to know everything when separated. This, in my experience, is why women say, "It is none of your business." The women have been managing their own lives--and the lives of everyone in the family--on their own for a long time. They have learned to be without their h's attention or interest or input. They had probably tried for sometime to engage their h in family and couple-life more, with little to no success.
> 
> Regardless of your decision (that is completely up to you), one can easily see why a person would choose not to disclose information to someone as f*cked up as this man. As MEM said, the guy's threats were so out of line that it is both outrageous and so sad. His poor kids. I'm sure there are times this woman wonders if she should just let him take himself out of their lives, and is tempted. She must wonder how he will hurt them when she is NOT around--what kinds of awful, controlling threats he'll make to keep them under his heel. Maybe he doesn't, maybe he won't. The only evidence is what he already told her. But that is chilling to the point where if she could get it on paper, a court would NOT look at him as a stable parent. His kids are tools to control the spouse who has separated herself from him. Tell her to save the documentation and perhaps see if her lawyer can use it to make sure that father gets the counseling he desperately needs. Honestly, this type of statement frightens me, b/c his kids are nothing but tools to be used as he wishes, and people who view their children like that are dangerous.
> 
> But I'm off track, and I hope I answered your question.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Okay #1 I don't think this was a Scannerguard issue--namely the lady he was thinking of dating was not saying that it's none of SCANNERGUARD'S business what she did. 

She indicated she was separated and "it was over" but apparently it wasn't over in her husband's/STBX's head and her response about him (her husband/STBX) was "It's none of his business what I do"...and he also heard that kind of statement from his own exW (who used that to introduce new men to her own children) and another female type person in his life. Since this is not something he's heard from his "guy friends" he's wondering if this is some sort of typical, female mindset or just what in the heck it is! 

I think that's a very good question!!

Then, #2: Scanner, I don't think that way of thinking ("...it's none of his/her business what I do...") regarding a spouse is particularly 1) a female privilege mindset, nor 2) a male superiority mindset ... or anything of that sort to be honest. I think it is a VERY COMMON entitlement mindset that you'll find among disloyal spouses or someone who lives an unfaithful lifestyle. For example, if someone leaves their marriage "because they have the right to be happy" and in the final months of their marriage they had a hidden Myspace page or Facebook page that was for nothing BUT flirting and being suggestive...they may not have "cheated" with one individual, but they believe they are entitled to the benefits of being married without any of the responsibilities and lived an unfaithful lifestyle (offering their affection and loyalty to anyone). 

From people who are unfaithful as a mindset, they would think "...it's none of his/her business" because in their minds the marriage isn't a promise that THEY have to hold themselves to--or a place where they promise to meet the need of their spouse. Nope it's the other way around: a marriage is a promise to meet THEIR NEEDS. 

So just a note to self: when you hear any person (male or female) talking with that kind of entitled talk, that is a pretty decent size RED FLAG :bsflag: to you that they think they "deserve to be happy" and probably at your expense. As "dating material" any woman who talks like that will most likely be using you to get their needs met, and not a lot more. I would personally say: *"RUNNNNNN!!!!"* but that decision is up to you.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

So most men are the types to not know what they have till it's gone? DAMN that's depressing... and annoying as all hell!!


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Yes, let me speak to the stb-x husband. . .he is an alcoholic and some physical violence (pushing into a wall) was involved. . .police were called. . .there is some depression - he is a mess, regretful, etc. He is chronically unemployed and living with his mother and just sits in a room all day with an enabling mother.

My heart is not bleeding for this guy. . .believe me and I think as her friend, a divorce should happen and she has given it her all and I think our brief fling has been good medicine for her to see she can attract a good guy for the most part and a physical connection and emotional connection to a guy awaits her. I think, I have been a good lover to her (it's been since a little before Superbowl Sunday).

I've been where she is at.

That being said, and this is I know kind of peculiar - I can identify with the emotion of withdrawing fathering.

This may be EFFED up to a lot of the forum but let's see it from his perspective: I am going to be blunt in framing this:

He is acting as a "babysitter" while his current wife goes out and has amazing hot sex with another man. This type of an "arrangement" is incredibly de-masculinating to the guy. I know, I know. . .he is "parenting" and "fathering", not babysitting. . .true. . .but let me assure you, it doesn't feel like to the guy. He feels like crap.

In fact, I nailed it for her - I told her - be prepared for what comes next - he's going to withdraw parenting and withdraw child support.

Natch! I nailed it - within 24 hours he was there.

Again, I can see some of the women here saying, "Well, who cares if she is having hot sex with another man on a Saturday night!!!??? It's none of his business!!!" Well, that's the rub and the point of this thread.

Affaircare's answer seemed to speak the most to me but I appreciate all of the answers as usual at the forum.

Tonight she emailed me and asked if we could just have sex. . .oh boy. . .oy. . .I am actually thinking of advising her (if I agree) to just lie to him - tell him she isn't seeing me anymore, that she is respecting the marriage and him and remaining faithful til the divorce, but then just see me on the side. That could be a perfect situation for all involved; I can be the guy on the side and with my schedule that may work (if I can even think of her sexually again though).

It's either that or this is this other woman I am dating who I actually have a crush on and I may just move to her. A very healthy relationship could await me there.

So. . .I have a choice and am at a crossroads. . .


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

SG, it's fine if you want to identify with the stbx--just do not expect her to. He emasculated himself, not her. He abandoned her and their children when he chose liquor over them. He broke the marriage contract (and many people see marriage as a civil contract, not a sacrament). If you had a business partner who broke your contractual arrangements and made a big mess of things in the bargain, and you were suing him, would you think he had any right to know what you were legally doing with your time and private resources (of course you could not touch the assets)? Would taking care of your future and your pursuit of happiness (in your profession) be stemming from a sense of "entitlement?" How would you feel about his threat to destroy company assets? 

They have a legal separation, so they are no longer responsible TO or FOR each other beyond the terms of the legal agreement. He has absolutely no RIGHT to object to whatever she does with her time and body as long as she is fulfilling her part of the separation agreement. He may not like it, but that's just too bad for him. He made a lot of choices to end up in the position. If he feels emasculated enough, maybe he'll decide to sober up and get a job. Maybe he'll choose NEVER to use his children as pawns again. I cannot think of anything more pathetic than a man like this thinking about how it is somehow a reflection on HIM that his stbx-w has "moved on, when he needs to be reflecting on things of much greater significance. 

There is a reason legal separation do not include "no sex until divorce" clauses, even though they might say, "no overnight guests of the opposite sex in the children's home." It's because NO ONE sees either person as having any right to have any say in the other's private affairs once they are LEGALLY separated. It really IS "none of his business."


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> It really IS "none of his business."


Again, I am not surprised at the sentiment.

You postulate that because he didn't do A, B, and C and X, Y, and Z in the marriage (and he didn't), it is none of his business, that her body is a "privledge" to be "won", a "prize", that goes to the victor (me in this case) who has a job and is not an alcoholic and an involved father, who is relatively healthy and a good lover.

I am not sure I entirely agree.

BTW, I did have a lot of his sentimetn during my separation (a separation agreement is kind of a confusing concept - I am talkign about physical separation, not legal ).

And I wasn't justifying his psychology, only explaining it. He needs to realize that his kids make him more emotionally grounded and fathering them is a positive action, not a negative.

But again, if this is all palatable and fairplay to you, Sisters. . .you won't mind if someday your husband leaves you with the kids 24/7 while he bangs another woman every night of the week, would you? You wouldn't feel "shafted?" 

After all, it wouldn't be any of your business, right?

BTW, curiously enough, once we were divorced, I never have looked back. I have invited her and her boyfriend over for Easter a.m. this year, I hope it works out for them. . .her life really is none of my business anymore other than when it concerns the children and their wellbeing. I am often curious what's happenign with her, just out of concern, but I am careful to respect boundaries and privacy.

She is now "entitled" to privacy, no problem.

To me, I guess the discussion is about what "civil" people do.

I don't know. . .I respected Affaircare's reply but I'd like her to consider that I think there is a rebelliousness there among many women taht I just can't seem to fully palpate why it's there. . .escape from the male-female domination role perhaps? Not sure. . .like I said. . .most men I know don't seem to ever say that, "it's none of her business."

They just don't want to get caught by "mother". Know what I mean?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

BTW, (I am working overnight and plenty of time to ruminate on a sleepy night). . .someone posted a few posts back that my reaction was kidn of "cold."

I do kind of agree with that. . .I should have rushed to support her, be there for her, after all. . .it was a time of "need" for her.

Well. . .I am not sure what to say that. I addressed that in my email to her.

A. First of all, I cannot explain why I lost all sexual desire. In that, i am willing to be friends for sure and help her through her divorce. I am very honest and I told her that, something every woman wants to hear - huh? You have lost sexual power over me.

But all I kept seeing in my head is her daughters innocent eyes searching for a father and feeling somewhat a party in it.

So. . .it is what it is - i went frigid. You may all be free to psychobabblize that.

But I am not saying I would withdrawal friendship. Anything I could do for her, I would and really mean that and am even trying to keep a platonic dialogue open.

B. Related to "mem's post", I am not trying to say anything here. . .that wasn't already said. . .it's a cultural thing among (some) females I am trying to understand.

C. You know. . .and maybe this is selfish of me. . .but I was just through all of this drama. I think I deserve a light, fun relationship, with a potential to deepen, not drama where I am wondering if an angry stb-x drunk Cuban husband is going to come over and put a cap in my butt.

You know. . .i have kids too.

I'll admit - I am selfish (maybe cold as someone criticized) and I told her this. Now, she is saying she can keep it light and we can just have friendly sex. Oy. . .

It's kind of weird really - she is really trying to force this - I think she is latching onto any kind of stability she can find. I mean, I am not ALL THAT, as the forum would know, lol


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Scanner: 

I find you honorable in the position you have taken- after some reflection, things started with a Whirlwind, you both got caught up. I feel kinda bad for her though, if indeed he was a physically abusive alcoholic husband. She feels like she finally met a nice man, and he is pulling away. She has probably felt desperate for some time now for love & affection. 

But I sure agree with you when you say this... "I think I deserve a light, fun relationship, with a potential to deepen, not drama where I am wondering if an angry stb-x drunk Cuban husband is going to come over and put a cap in my butt". 


If I was in her situation, I don't think I would ever say "It is NONE of his business" but I would take advantage of the rules of the Legal Separation as they were written. I know nothing about these things --do they really have clauses like Sisters mentions such as ..... "no overnight guests of the opposite sex in the children's home"? If so, the courts would not object to her moving on with her life and body. 

I don't believe I would be moral enough to abstain from sex ---especially if I came from a Monster marraige like that. It does seem to point to her possibly not making the best descions in life to end up with such a man though. Do you really know what her whole story is? I do believe sometimes good people can get caught up in horrendous situations. 

But ultimately , you NEED to think of Yourself & your kids above all. If this situation is uncomfortable for you -which it is -right now, best to respect that and move on.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Okay #1 I don't think this was a Scannerguard issue--namely the lady he was thinking of dating was not saying that it's none of SCANNERGUARD'S business what she did.
> 
> She indicated she was separated and "it was over" but apparently it wasn't over in her husband's/STBX's head and her response about him (her husband/STBX) was "It's none of his business what I do"...and he also heard that kind of statement from his own exW (who used that to introduce new men to her own children) and another female type person in his life. Since this is not something he's heard from his "guy friends" he's wondering if this is some sort of typical, female mindset or just what in the heck it is!
> 
> ...


I usually have great respect for your posts, but I have to be honest and say that I do kind of take issue with this one. 

I never, ever cheated on my ex-husband; I didn't date until my divorce was final. But I did tell my ex that what I did was none of his business. The reason I told him that was because for the years we were married, I was ignored unless he wanted sex or dinner, he cheated on me constantly, and ignored our son and didn't care at all about my pregnancy with the son I was carrying at the time of our separation and divorce. 

I can agree that A LOT of times, someone who says it's none of the spouse's business is doing so because they are/were unfaithful, but the way I read what you wrote, it seems like you're saying that's always the case. If I'm reading it wrong, feel free to correct me; it's very early, my eyes aren't completely open yet.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Scanner,

Your a man of too many contradictions. You think it's morally reprehensible that she date and have sex while still legally married, but you think its completely ok if you do it with her on the side and no one knows.

You need to fix yourself before morally deciding what's good for others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

alphaomega said:


> Scanner,
> 
> Your a man of too many contradictions. You think it's morally reprehensible that she date and have sex while still legally married, but you think its completely ok if you do it with her on the side and no one knows.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with this. I am of the belief that until the divorce is final, sex with somebody else is cheating. That's my belief but I won't put that on somebody else. Scanner, you had sex with other women while still being legally married yet separated from your wife but you did it under the radar. This woman you are dating got caught and now you view her as a cheater. My personal beliefs aside, what you are ridiculing her for is EXACTLY what you did to your ex-wife. How are you any better than her then? :scratchhead:


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> ... I don't know. . .I respected Affaircare's reply but I'd like her to consider that I think there is a rebelliousness there among many women taht I just can't seem to fully palpate why it's there. . .escape from the male-female domination role perhaps? Not sure. . .like I said. . .most men I know don't seem to ever say that, "it's none of her business."
> 
> They just don't want to get caught by "mother". Know what I mean?


Scanner~

I most definitely do realize there is a certain "rebelliousness" that entitled disloyal spouses have, and I think again that it goes to males and females both. BOTH genders have re-written the marital history to make their spouse "the bad guy" whom they have the right to "escape" with their affair, so to some degree the natural response to previously being under someone's thumb is to react by being "rebellious." Thus, they do all the things they felt they were entitled to do in the marriage that their evil spouse "MADE THEM" stop doing: like wearing jeans so tight you can tell their religion, being promiscuous, staying out all night, etc. 

Even if you look around here on TAM you'll see men who have decided to leave their wives--either for the OW or for the freedom of the single life--and they just don't say out loud "it's none of her business." They act it out by locking her out of their phone, their PC, their FB page...and eventually their apartment. If I were to observe anything, I say that woman say it out loud and men just act it out.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brennan,
I thought about your question to me. Whether what "she" was doing was all right. 

I actually KNOW this is going to cause ill will in some quarters but this is my take on separations. 
1. They are a bullshicrap way of dealing with severe problems
2. They are HUGELY more painful for the HD spouse IF you do them without explicitly opening the door to both parties acting as if they ARE divorced
3. If my W were to insist on a separation - would I give her a couple of weeks to "calm down"? Of course. But after that I would be completely open that I was going to start dating. And you all know by now - I have never cheated and I never WANT to. But separations create an environment that is SO easily abused. Why not be up front and say - separate MEANS separate. 
4. And to PILE ON. The day I TELL YOU without reservation we are getting a divorce and there is no come back from it. Or the day you tell me the same, is the day that the sacred plane of fidelity just disappears as a concept. Poof. Gone. I don't need a lawyer and a judge to sign papers to give me my freedom. 

I get that all this sounds borderline harsh. I live with an aggressive person. These are MY boundaries. If she doesn't want me to fuukk anyone else I guess she won't ask for/demand a separation. If she is upset enough to tolerate me doing "that" so she can have time away - "well ok then". And OF COURSE it goes both ways. Difference is I am not stupid enough to ask her - if we are separated - if she is banging anyone. Because at that point it is NOT MY BUSINESS.

I am not claiming the woman SG is "staying friends with" is setting the gold standard for conduct. But lets be real guys - when your separated W tells you "my sex life is none of your business" that means something very specific. It means I am fuukking other guys or plan to be shortly. So I am not convinced she even really lied to the ex. 





Brennan said:


> I agree 100% with this. I am of the belief that until the divorce is final, sex with somebody else is cheating. That's my belief but I won't put that on somebody else. Scanner, you had sex with other women while still being legally married yet separated from your wife but you did it under the radar. This woman you are dating got caught and now you view her as a cheater. My personal beliefs aside, what you are ridiculing her for is EXACTLY what you did to your ex-wife. How are you any better than her then? :scratchhead:


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Okay #1 I don't think this was a Scannerguard issue--namely the lady he was thinking of dating was not saying that it's none of SCANNERGUARD'S business what she did.


I totally misread that. Being a bit brain dead.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I just have to wonder about the context of how this not so ex husband gets to find out his not so ex wife is out having sex with someone else while he's home watching the kids.

I know, runon sentence.

Was it "It's none of your frakkin business but I went to places you could never take me you xxxxx XXXX !"

And said upon he realizing that the "separation" was not what he thought it was.

Or were they clearly and trully separated and he is not accepting of the end of their marriage?


In either case, if it were me? I would not be involved with a woman who is deceptive about her infidelity. Reminds me too much of my own situation.

When I am free of her, it's strictly available women.

I don't want to be in anyone else's drama.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, an update:

She told me that her stb-x knows about me per se, and she told everyone we backed off, but he didn't know we were intimate and he doesn't have to know as they are divorcing. She said she didn't tell him that and he doesn't have to know (which I actually agree - he's a mess now to begin with from what I hear).

So, we are just knocking aroudn the idea of just fooling around in secret.

What is it with you Drama Chicks? She is very dorked up on hormones right now. . .I can practically smell the pheromones coming through the sexting cellphone messages.

Why don't you non-drama chicks ever get a libido like this? She, like SA notes, is saying she went sexless so long that all she is thinking about is sex with me. (and I ain't all *that *great, lol)

As far as being morally contradictory, I don't think I ever (either literally or between the lines) passed off the idea I am Holier Than Thou with morality. This isn't about judgment. . .it's about trying to understand.

If you were to ask me plain out if I think sleeping with a married woman is moral, I'd say no. But I wouldn't say "Well, it's none of your spouse's business either." I may give a "moral pass" to someone if there is full disclosure and you are just waiting on the paperwork of divorce (which I kind of thought this was).

You will actually find me quite consistent.

I just need to be disclosed the situation before going in. If she wanted to keep this discreet, she should have said something. I was taking her out, taking her and her kids out with my kids. . .now, it's like. . .ohhhhhhhh. . .this needs to be an affair-like situation.

I am just trying to decide if this is what I want. In some ways, it may be perfect. . .she says she just wants sex. I am really, really busy with a new house, adjusting to part time single dadding, and everything. 

I was even thinking of calling into Suze Orman's Show and asking during her "Can I Afford It?" portion and ask her if I can afford a girlfriend.

But I would like a healthy relationship somewhere along the way. . .not sure if I should just hang in the game until this runs it's eventual course and she gets tired of me.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Good for you Scanner! It did sound like you were passing judgment on her for doing exactly what you did to your ex though. I personally don't approve of dating or having sex with an outsider until the ink is dry but that is my personal belief. 
I still stand by that until said ink is dry, it is her husband's business and saying it isn't sounds pretty selfish to me. 
As for affording a girlfriend, huh? Why is the onus on you to provide financially for her? Or where you jokingly implying can you afford her in a sense of emotionally with all that is going on in your life? 
BTW, what happened to the other lady? The cute one with the nose ring?


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## Mike188 (Dec 29, 2009)

Why do the replies not surprise me? It seems that most of the women here support this woman's right to do whatever she wants and agrees that is none of her husband's business what she does. I have observed this in real life too, over and over. I have know several women who have strayed from their husbands or done something they shouldn't do and their female friends friends support whole heartedly and even go so far as to bash the husband, who is the victim. In cases where a man has done something wrong and, well, he is a pig.

I have also been close to instance where a man has done something he shouldn't have done or is thinking about accepting the advance of another woman. Nearly always all the male friends in his life will tell him to pull his head out of his ass and not to do it. Big difference between how men give advice to other men and how women give support to other women. And very predictable I'm sorry to say.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Mike188 said:


> Why do the replies not surprise me? It seems that most of the women here support this woman's right to do whatever she wants and agrees that is none of her husband's business what she does. I have observed this in real life too, over and over. I have know several women who have strayed from their husbands or done something they shouldn't do and their female friends friends support whole heartedly and even go so far as to bash the husband, who is the victim. In cases where a man has done something wrong and, well, he is a pig.
> 
> I have also been close to instance where a man has done something he shouldn't have done or is thinking about accepting the advance of another woman. Nearly always all the male friends in his life will tell him to pull his head out of his ass and not to do it. Big difference between how men give advice to other men and how women give support to other women. And very predictable I'm sorry to say.


Good thing you aren't talking to me. I stated flat out that until the ink is dry what she does is her husband's business and vice versa. I also stated that dating while still married in a no no for me. 
But yeah, I hear you Mike. The responses surprised me too. If I had to hazard a guess and the shoe was on the other foot, if her husband was out having sex with another woman many here would be hollering that it is her business to know what is going on, that it's cheating, etc. etc. 
I'm a big proponent of equality. She does not get a pass on this in way.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Brennan,

Okay, I don't mind this topic weaving here and there. . .so for the forum's edification. . .this was the history with my ex-wife.

We separate. I ask her about dating other people. I would have preferred like you said - until the ink dries out of respect for each other and the marriage. She waives me off rebelliouslessly (is this a word? see the theme here). . .like because we separated, I don't even have the *right* to have a conversation on this. Refuses to communicate (and her job title is head of internal communications at a hospital - it's her living)

So I write her a letter as a compromise - how about until Labor Day? (it was May 2009). No reply.

Long story short. . .I find out she was "dating" somone in and around July and had probably become intimate with him after Labor Day. 

I held to my word and started dating October.

But. . .but. . .I kept it discreet. Never told the kids. Just people in my community knew but I guess she never found out.

I made it hard for her to see this guy and didn't take the kids often, both out of spite, but also out of necessity as I was paying $1725/month and having to work 2-3 jobs to make that payment.

Months later after the divorce, as Mike188 notes, she still confronts me on my actions during the divorce. . .like many of the women here, she still maintains:

"It was none of your business what I was doing during the divorce. You didn't have to make things difficult on me."

The funny thing now is, I don't really care.

I also found it and still find it quite amusing

A. The entitleistic mindset that permeates her (and other women's as Mike 188 notes) philosophy on this. But then again, more women are Democratic by nature and I think the entitleistic philosophy permeates their psyche more.
B. That she thought divorce was going to be a walk in the park, that she glamorized it.

Now I am with a woman with the same mindset a bit. . .just exploring it more, what goes on inside your heads.

Like I said, my office manager piped up the same exact thing when I told her:

"It's none of his business what she is doing!!! Go have fun!!!"

Okay, I hope that clarifies my imperfections and drama to the forum and allows the topic to drift and weave.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scanner,
Your ex was wrong make no mistake about that. She also chose to flaunt her actions. You were wrong too but you chose to keep it discrete. You too both did the same thing but went about it differently.
I am by no means trying to bash you just explaining my mindset. The "it's none of your business" is a convenient way to not have to be accountable for their actions as it most certainly IS their business until the divorce is final. 
I will admit, the responses surprised me. If it was their husband who was out fooling around with other women while still being legally married, I think the responses would have been vastly different.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Brennan,

No problem. . .I wasn't getting the feeling you were judging me (well, maybe you were. . .but you werent judging me, maybe judging the action to take it less personally).

And the responses shouldn't surprise you, as I am the Master of Controversial Gender-Biased Topics here. . .the King and Emperor of that 

Honestly, I am not judging women per se on this either. . .just a curious difference I am exploring. . .like one poster noted, I think women perhaps think (and there would be some validity on this), that they are prize to be earned and to the victor goes the p**sy.

Like you note, I went about it differently. . .it's food to chew on, it's a topic for women to stew on - why men lie.

Most women think men lie or deceive out of disrespect for their spouse (they take it that way - lying is an insult to their intelligence) when in reality, it's just the opposite - it's a form of respect by not flaunting something against the marriage. I want her to keep this discreet out of respect for her ex-husband (among the safety of my own head too, lol).


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Brennan,
> 
> No problem. . .I wasn't getting the feeling you were judging me (well, maybe you were. . .but you werent judging me, maybe judging the action to take it less personally).
> 
> ...


You are the Master, that's for sure. 
I disagree with you about it being a form of respect. Respect to me would openness and honesty. If my husband and I were separated and he was out having sex with other women but kept it under the radar, to me it wouldn't be about respect toward his wife but rather protecting his own a$$ from further fallout. Nothing respectful about that.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, that's what I meant about not wanting mother to find out 

Even my sons now say, "Maybe it's best that mom not know about this." when they've done something bad or something bad happened that she said would happen (like falling off a trampoline or something). I feel as long as I have been notified, it's okay.

Don't you women appreciate that kind of deceit, when it's for your own good?

My deep understanding of the female psyche is what has made me such a kick-butt lover, no?  Effective management of hysteria is something my sons must learn to grasp as they make their way through life.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Well, that's what I meant about not wanting mother to find out
> 
> Even my sons now say, "Maybe it's best that mom not know about this." when they've done something bad or something bad happened that she said would happen (like falling off a trampoline or something). I feel as long as I have been notified, it's okay.
> 
> ...


Never tried you out so I wouldn't know. 
No, women don't appreciate deceit in any form. That is disrespect in the boldest fashion.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

SG, I never said anywhere that her body was a prize to be won by anyone--you said that. My whole point is that her body is hers to do with as she pleases--and the "dog and bone" attitude you and her ex display is evidence of the problem some men have understanding that. 

Yep, I had NO problem with my ex moving on as soon as we had a legal separation. I was very supportive since he needed someone a lot more than I did!

I'd have a different answer if there wasn't a legal separation--because then, the whole separation can be just in someone's mind (and their partner might not even know it).


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I think getting in the middle of a train wreck is a mistake. Why don't people in the middle of said train wreck just commit to not date for a given number of months? And anyway, who wants to be that FIRST person after divorce?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> And anyway, who wants to be that FIRST person after divorce?


Welllllllllllllllllllllllll, funny you should ask. . .I suppose a therapist would be interested in this - you aren't going to maybe like this answer. . .but the forum knows me as an open book.

So here goes. . .

I must admit, it was kind of hot for me to give her her first functional sexual experience where it's been lacking for so many years.

I mean, in a screwball way, I am thinking like I am paying it forward like the woman I was with before me gave me my first good sexual experience in a long time.

The problem is I think I unleashed the Female Monster in her and now she's like a rabid banshee after me.

I'm okay with being the Transition Guy, emotionally and physically.

It's a hard job. . .but someone has got to do it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> My whole point is that her body is hers to do with as she pleases--


Apparently. . .


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

LOL. . .I am reminded of a long ago Ally McBeal episode where she is going to a chiropractor who has a ridiculous vibrating bed that gets her off and her boyfriend wants her to stop going and she says in the heat of a fight:

"I'll see what mechanical equipment I want to see!!!!"


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Welllllllllllllllllllllllll, funny you should ask. . .I suppose a therapist would be interested in this - you aren't going to maybe like this answer. . .but the forum knows me as an open book.
> 
> So here goes. . .
> 
> ...


Uh, huh....we'll take you word for it.


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