# Red flags in Marriage - time to end?



## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

Over the years my wife of 8 years has alwIays gone off on business trips alone. About 6 months ago she went on one and didn't answer the phone or call once, which is really odd because we have 2 kids - 4 and 2. I threw a fit about it, and she said she was staying with a co-worker in a hotel that was a stranger and felt awkward about it. I didn't buy it but dropped it. Later, in a social setting a different co-worker of hers let it be known that she was at the bar every night on that trip, yet that co-worker was not on the trip with her, and she isn't the type to make things up. I let it go, but have been watching closely. She stays after work 1 night a week to write her paper for school and on numerous occasions I have called her out on not doing her studies. I found receipts to ice cream shops and donut shops in the middle of the evening. She just completely downplays them. Last night was the final strawl. She had her login saved for find my iphone on her ipad and I looked it up, and found out she was at her old work instead of at the place she said she was writing her paper at. I sent her a text and she told me she was at a different place. When I questioned it, I think I just said "you're where" back in a reply she said "well I was there, now I'm here with an old co-worker. She met me at my school with another friend and now I brought her home. " i stopped replying. She came home in a fit of rage and accused me of checking her location. I lied and said I didn't. After all, she had no proof and was the culprit. She put our oldest child to bed and I didn't say much. She asked if I still wanted to be with her and I didn't answer and went to bed. She was up all night crying. This morning she said she could not stand the thought of not being with me for the rest of her life. I want to believe her, but also know that love is blind. I came here for an outside opinion. 

Thanks for listening.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mcgyver said:


> Over the years my wife of 8 years has alwIays gone off on business trips alone. About 6 months ago she went on one and didn't answer the phone or call once, which is really odd because we have 2 kids - 4 and 2. I threw a fit about it, and she said she was staying with a co-worker in a hotel that was a stranger and felt awkward about it. I didn't buy it but dropped it. Later, in a social setting a different co-worker of hers let it be known that she was at the bar every night on that trip, yet that co-worker was not on the trip with her, and she isn't the type to make things up. I let it go, but have been watching closely. She stays after work 1 night a week to write her paper for school and on numerous occasions I have called her out on not doing her studies. I found receipts to ice cream shops and donut shops in the middle of the evening. She just completely downplays them. Last night was the final strawl. She had her login saved for find my iphone on her ipad and I looked it up, and found out she was at her old work instead of at the place she said she was writing her paper at. I sent her a text and she told me she was at a different place. When I questioned it, I think I just said "you're where" back in a reply she said "well I was there, now I'm here with an old co-worker. She met me at my school with another friend and now I brought her home. " i stopped replying. She came home in a fit of rage and accused me of checking her location. I lied and said I didn't. After all, she had no proof and was the culprit. She put our oldest child to bed and I didn't say much. *She asked if I still wanted to be with her and I didn't answer and went to bed. She was up all night crying. This morning she said she could not stand the thought of not being with me for the rest of her life*. I want to believe her, but also know that love is blind. I came here for an outside opinion.
> 
> Thanks for listening.


Well, she's been lying about something, and she's feeling guilty about it.

You have two options before you...

1. "I know you've been seeing someone. Maybe even more than someone. There are simply too many inconsistencies in much of what you've been telling me. I want the truth, and I want it now."

If she wavers at all, stay on point -- you want the truth, and you want it now. At the same time, don't go into details regarding the inconsistencies. Make no mention of what doesn't add up. This will give her no opportunity to gaslight.

The problem w/ this approach is that, if she is cheating, she'll likely just lie about it.

That said, you know your wife. If you think you can get her to crack w/ a stone-faced semi-bluff, go for it. If it doesn't work though, and there is something going on, she'll just take it underground, making it even more difficult for you to detect.

2. Say nothing. Act as if all is normal and quietly begin monitoring her more closely. Check out @weightlifter's "Standard Evidence Post" thread in the CWI forum for advice on how to go about doing that. Be sure to pay special attention to the "mouth shut, eyes open" mantra.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't think its time to END it, but its for sure time to do some digging and find some sh!t out. Her behavior is for sure suspicious.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Well, she's been lying about something, and she's feeling guilty about it.


100% correct.


> You have two options before you...
> 
> 1. "I know you've been seeing someone. Maybe even more than someone. There are simply too many inconsistencies in much of what you've been telling me. I want the truth, and I want it now."
> 
> ...


This isn't the specific approach that I extol, but it can meet some degree of success. One can make your option #1 more successful by objectively scrutinizing her response. The problem with confrontations is that individuals tend to be asking for the truth, rather than laying it out. If one is asking, then it is implied that there is room for an argument/debate.

There are other behaviors that need to be seriously addressed, as well. Fits of rage have no place in a healthy relationship. I say this to highlight the need for there to be serious consideration given by her. She can't just give a believable excuse and all is well.


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## Bee4Shine (Oct 20, 2016)

She obviously is not happy with the way things are and loves you and wants to be with you. But there is something strange going on. My husband knows where I am at all times, who I am with and exactly what I am doing. I know where he is at all times. It is a matter of respect. Transparency. Desire to always be loyal and faithful. You can have that too, but you need to let her know that is what you expect. You have lost trust. I am sorry about that, but it is a fact now and she needs to understand that once trust is lost, it has to be built back. Often that happens through great accountability and really good boundaries. (i.e.: She wants you to put a tracker on her phone so that you KNOW where she is. She calls you every time she is out and puts it on speaker so that the person she is with can say hi as well, she limits the "going out" for the time being to prove that you are more important than anything in her life).

Basically her actions need to back up her words and her commitment. Which i think is what you are struggling with now - they don't.

My husband and I talk alot about "hedges" around our marriage. These protect our marriage from things intentional and unintentional conscious and unconscious that may impact our relationship. He NEVER goes out with a woman alone. I NEVER go out with a man alone. It doesn't even matter how good of friends we are. it doesn't matter if the woman is his boss. He doesn't go and he is respected for it. When he is not home, I never let another man in the door. I will go out side and chat or talk, but never inside. We know each other's passwords on all devices - complete transparency. These are all hedges and they protect us and give us such a great trust and unity. I hope you can get to that point with your wife for the sake of you, her and the kids.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I would not end it, until you have some concrete proof that she is cheating.

I would call her out of her lies, the lies she is telling would make me want to secretly investigate what is going on.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Lostme said:


> I would not end it, until you have some concrete proof that she is cheating.
> 
> I would call her out of her lies, the lies she is telling would make me want to secretly investigate what is going on.


Again, any mention of specific inconsistencies would accomplish little more than giving her a chance to lie and gaslight.

Stay on point!


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Here's the thread (previously mentioned) on how to find out what is actually going on: 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Put a tracker and a VAR in her car.

As for the business trips why does she go alone? What exactly does she do?

For the next trip can you hire a PI in the city she's going and track her?

I would end it just for the sheer agony she must be putting you through, it's no way to be in a marriage when you're paranoid about what the other person is doing.

Don't buy the tear either. She's boxed into a corner..why exactly would she say do you still want to be with me if she's just meeting up for donuts and ice creams? She knows you're onto her.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Your ages?

What's the basic story on the schooling for you both?

How often does she travel and what is the general context of the trips? Vegas conventions, new employee recruitment, visiting suppliers, visiting customers?

If you do confront her, record it. Your cell phone can be used for that function, or buy a good Sony voice-activate-recorder and have it in your pocket. The reason is so you can go back later. I always missed things when having confrontations or discussions with my stbxw. Then later, maybe an hour maybe a couple of days, the light would go on and I'd wonder what exactly she said. Did she say what I remember or was it slightly different? Practice so you know how to operate the recorder and ensure it makes no sounds, beeps, etc during use.

You may find minor inconsistencies. It is not certain those are proof of anything, because memories are quite fallible. If she says she went somewhere at 2:30 and you have gps proof it wasn't until 3:00 it isn't necessarily a lie. So when you record the conversation, pay attention to details but don't be hair trigger to convict her.

I would review all the financial statements and phone bills going back several years. Look for those oddball things. Also, carefully search for any hidden secret cell phones or other suspicious items (condoms, condom wrappers, hotel key cards, love notes, gifts, etc). Make sure you put everything back precisely as you found it. Her closet and all the clothing, bags, shoes, etc. Her dresser. Her car including every cubby and compartment, even the spare tire area.

I would VAR her car and keylog the family computer if she uses that.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Right now is the time to play dumb with her. Stfu. Do some investigation, get your ducks in a row. Never confront until you either have solid proof or you are ready to walk away anyhow. Cheaters always always play the same game. They deny and they gaslight until you prove to them you know for sure and have the solid proof. Then they only admit to what they think you already know. Always, every time. If you confront without hard evidence she will lie, deny, gaslight, and probably throw counter accusations back at you.

The more she realizes that you are suspicious, the more careful she will be. And that makes it harder for you to discover the truth. So for now you stfu and investigate. It only takes a few days up to maybe a couple of weeks to get the data you need.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Bee4Shine said:


> She obviously is not happy with the way things are and loves you and wants to be with you. But there is something strange going on. My husband knows where I am at all times, who I am with and exactly what I am doing. I know where he is at all times. It is a matter of respect. Transparency. Desire to always be loyal and faithful. You can have that too, but you need to let her know that is what you expect. You have lost trust. I am sorry about that, but it is a fact now and she needs to understand that once trust is lost, it has to be built back. Often that happens through great accountability and really good boundaries. (i.e.: She wants you to put a tracker on her phone so that you KNOW where she is. She calls you every time she is out and puts it on speaker so that the person she is with can say hi as well, she limits the "going out" for the time being to prove that you are more important than anything in her life).
> 
> Basically her actions need to back up her words and her commitment. Which i think is what you are struggling with now - they don't.
> 
> My husband and I talk alot about "hedges" around our marriage. These protect our marriage from things intentional and unintentional conscious and unconscious that may impact our relationship. He NEVER goes out with a woman alone. I NEVER go out with a man alone. It doesn't even matter how good of friends we are. it doesn't matter if the woman is his boss. He doesn't go and he is respected for it. When he is not home, I never let another man in the door. I will go out side and chat or talk, but never inside. We know each other's passwords on all devices - complete transparency. These are all hedges and they protect us and give us such a great trust and unity. I hope you can get to that point with your wife for the sake of you, her and the kids.


That's incredible that you and your husband have such boundaries to protect your marriage and foster trust and respect.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@mcgyver, Welcome to TAM. Sorry you had to seek us out, but glad you found us.

I think that this thread of yours would fit better in the Coping With Infidelity section.

Would you like me to move it there for you?


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

McGyver

Regardless of where your thread winds up, you have two distinct choices here. But before I tell you those you must understand that married women do not DISAPPEAR off the radar, refuse to answer their husbands texts, and them lie their asses off unless there is something going on. That something is what you are clueless about and what brought you here.

Now your two choices are
(1) accept and be intimidated by her indignation that she goes out alone and "ghosts" you as well as lies to you about what she is doing on business trips. You can put your head in the sand and HOPE what is right in front of you is a mirage. I suggest before taking this option you google "signs your wife is cheating". My bet is there are more that you have not revealed here.

(2) decide that you "gut" is churning for a valid reason and that mean you have no alternative but to snoop. And she has given you every reason to take this option.

Should you choose option 2, and I hope you do, you need a VAR in her car and a GPS on it ( since she already believes you are tracking her phone). My bet is if she has a boyfriend close to home you will know that in less than a few days. If she is cheating she is going to be talking to htis OM, and I'm guessing you do not have access to her electronics ( another red flag).

The more you question hear with what you have revealed in your post, the further underground and careful she will be.

But in the end you either stay in denial or you don't. I hope you pick the right option


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

Thor said:


> Your ages?
> 
> What's the basic story on the schooling for you both?
> 
> ...


I'm 34 and she's 32. She has a Master's Degree and writing for her PhD. I have an undergrad and working on graduate. We have good jobs, both from upper middle class families, etc. She's not a risk taker, that's why I'm so confused on her actions. She takes trips for conventions or classes. I've gone on some with her, she's gone on some with me. It's a perk of both of our jobs and has been going on for some time. 

A few curve balls: She has a work phone and so do I, we don't share a phone account. We both have work computers only. Hard to spy when I don't know her NT password to get in... and I only know her phone information because one of our children's iPad's uses her itunes account. We have separate bank accounts although on both and cross account transfers capable. I moved large amounts of money out of a few accounts today into a savings account I can only get to. We dont have joint credit cards. She's not the neatest person in the world, so when I rummage I'm not to careful.. it may come back to bite me in the end. She has clinical ADHD and is medicated for it. I really don't have the proof here, just tired of feeling like I may be taken for a ride. 

Thanks everyone for your replies. We're in limbo... as she knows I'm upset. I'm not talking much right now.


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

Sure, you can move it. Thanks!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Usually people will not use a family computer anymore to do anything "they don't want to

be caught doing"

Does she always have her work phone locked? A VAR will help you see if there is a burner

phone too. I've been here four years and it still amazes me how many WS still use a DC/CC...

and leave a paper trail.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

mcgyver said:


> Over the years my wife of 8 years has alwIays gone off on business trips alone. About 6 months ago she went on one and didn't answer the phone or call once, which is really odd because we have 2 kids - 4 and 2. I threw a fit about it, and she said she was staying with a co-worker in a hotel that was a stranger and felt awkward about it. I didn't buy it but dropped it. Later, in a social setting a different co-worker of hers let it be known that she was at the bar every night on that trip, yet that co-worker was not on the trip with her, and she isn't the type to make things up. I let it go, but have been watching closely. She stays after work 1 night a week to write her paper for school and on numerous occasions I have called her out on not doing her studies. I found receipts to ice cream shops and donut shops in the middle of the evening. She just completely downplays them. Last night was the final strawl. She had her login saved for find my iphone on her ipad and I looked it up, and found out she was at her old work instead of at the place she said she was writing her paper at. I sent her a text and she told me she was at a different place. When I questioned it, I think I just said "you're where" back in a reply she said "well I was there, now I'm here with an old co-worker. She met me at my school with another friend and now I brought her home. " i stopped replying. She came home in a fit of rage and accused me of checking her location. I lied and said I didn't. After all, she had no proof and was the culprit. She put our oldest child to bed and I didn't say much. She asked if I still wanted to be with her and I didn't answer and went to bed. She was up all night crying. This morning she said she could not stand the thought of not being with me for the rest of her life. I want to believe her, but also know that love is blind. I came here for an outside opinion.
> 
> Thanks for listening.



McGyver,


You ju yourself wrote why you need to make your first stop tomorrow morning Best Buy and for less than $100 you can buy the necessary VAR to find out what she is up to in less than a week. The techies will tell you here exactly what to buy. Do it and you will make a decision from knowledge.

With separate work electronics you will not catch her without being proactive here.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

>My husband and I talk alot about "hedges" around our marriage. These protect our marriage from things intentional and unintentional conscious and unconscious that may impact our relationship. He NEVER goes out with a woman alone. I NEVER go out with a man alone. It doesn't even matter how good of friends we are. it doesn't matter if the woman is his boss. He doesn't go and he is respected for it. When he is not home, I never let another man in the door. I will go out side and chat or talk, but never inside. We know each other's passwords on all devices - complete transparency. These are all hedges and they protect us and give us such a great trust and unity. I hope you can get to that point with your wife for the sake of you, her and the kids.<

Kudos. 

OP. Start faking it better. You have a stomach bug if she asks. Read the standard evidence post. Stay off devices that dont belong to either of you. Take alternate paths of evidence gathering.


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## jmiller2020 (Sep 3, 2013)

First of all, I'm sorry. This worry is all consuming. Second, you need to decide what you want. Based on the fact that she cried all night tells me that you have the leverage. If something is going on she wants you and the family more. 

So what do you want? Do you want to go to therapy? Ask. Do you want travel cut back? Ask. Or do you want more attention? Ask. 

If you need to know, then you go to her and say, I want to talk about the other night. Watch body language, see how defensive she gets, etc. (please note some defense could be due to you nagging or asking about this too much) 

And the be quiet. Let her squirm. Then if she goes off in one direction and then comes back to another, and is very upset and you can tell rattled. You say, "that's really disappointing I thought we were better than this and you could just be honest." And walk away calmly.

That sentence will plaque her with worry and eventually she will slip or confess. That is if she is guilty. It's important to not talk about the details. But stay quiet so she doesn't know what information you have.

After that you choose what you want. Do you want to fix it (reread top) or do you want to walk. Then you rally friends and family cause you will need support along with your decision. 

My guess is you will stay and work on it. Make sure you go to a specialized marriage counselor that has training in infidelity. 

Check out this article for awesome tips to help: http://www.southmetrocounseling.com...st-marriage-counselor-or-one-thats-full-of-bs

And you work on what caused the stray. There's almost always a reason and a way to fix it (imo).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

jmiller2020 said:


> First of all, I'm sorry. This worry is all consuming. Second, you need to decide what you want. Based on the fact that she cried all night tells me that you have the leverage. If something is going on she wants you and the family more.
> 
> So what do you want? Do you want to go to therapy? Ask. Do you want travel cut back? Ask. Or do you want more attention? Ask.
> 
> ...


Probably the best advice I've heard so far. I feel like a damn idiot with a GPS tracking on her vehicle and listening to her in her car. It's making ME crazy. She doesn't talk much in the car so far and the one conversation she had I could hear her talking about her dissertation paper to someone. It was about a 10 minute conversation. I could make out most of it but the engine noise (yes I tried cleaning up with audacity per/youtube) kept me from every word. That conversation was deleted from her phone call log and I cannot see her bill so I don't know who it was but it doesn't seem worrisome. She came home and told me almost the exact same thing when she got home. Obviously we've talked a lot about the relationship in the last week. I think we get it back on track, and so does she, but I just cannot get happy. I *THINK* something may have happened but I don't think it is going on right now and she will never tell me. 

Thank you for the positive outlook. Like I said, playing detective is just not me. If I get caught it will break her heart.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

But is she willing to be completely transparent in all things including not deleting things on her phone? Or is she just saying trust her?
And the biggie would she be willing to take a polygraph if you asked?


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

Xenote said:


> But is she willing to be completely transparent in all things including not deleting things on her phone? Or is she just saying trust her?
> And the biggie would she be willing to take a polygraph if you asked?


I'll end my marriage before I subject her to a polygraph.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

mcgyver said:


> I'll end my marriage before I subject her to a polygraph.


fair enough but what about Transparency ?


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## m00nman (Nov 29, 2014)

Trust your own gut, mcgyver. I've found that free advice is worth exactly the price you pay for it. Better to get a person qualified at finding a solution moving forward and not somebody else who's also been jilted and motivated to establish background for an ironclad divorce settlement. There seems to be this inherent paranoia that I can only guess involves some sort of projection by others on to your situation. I'm not saying put your head in the sand, but neither am I saying that you should subscribe to the paranoia being peddled here. You need to take the high road but also ensure that you and your interests are protected from this. All the rest is "he said, she said" and diminishes both of you in the eyes of others. 

That being said, as a parent and a caregiver here's my biased advice: FAMILY should come first. Not work, not school - FAMILY. I see you have young kids. Understand that this is going to affect them in some manner. Talk with your wife about your kids' concerns. Talk about both the good (milestones, things the kids did today, etc.) and the bad (problems with discipline, concerns with the preschool teacher, issues with certain types of kids on the playground, etc.) Hopefully that puts things in perspective for your wife. 

You two are PARENTS and need to be a team. There are PLENTY of things that are going to try and divide your family. IMO a parent doesn't get a pass just because they have to work, study - and LEAST OF ALL NETWORK in the interest of career advancement and "team building." Conversely, resist the urge to argue in front of your kids. They will see this and know who's the weaker of the two and use that to forward their own agendas. I've seen it in my own family, even as early as 3 years old - and it SHOULDN'T be written off as the "terrible twos." Kids know. Trust me.


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## jmiller2020 (Sep 3, 2013)

mcgyver said:


> Probably the best advice I've heard so far. I feel like a damn idiot with a GPS tracking on her vehicle and listening to her in her car. It's making ME crazy. She doesn't talk much in the car so far and the one conversation she had I could hear her talking about her dissertation paper to someone. It was about a 10 minute conversation. I could make out most of it but the engine noise (yes I tried cleaning up with audacity per/youtube) kept me from every word. That conversation was deleted from her phone call log and I cannot see her bill so I don't know who it was but it doesn't seem worrisome. She came home and told me almost the exact same thing when she got home. Obviously we've talked a lot about the relationship in the last week. I think we get it back on track, and so does she, but I just cannot get happy. I *THINK* something may have happened but I don't think it is going on right now and she will never tell me.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the positive outlook. Like I said, playing detective is just not me. If I get caught it will break her heart.




You are walking in a foreign world, how would you possible know what to do. Especially when you are in shock, panicking trying to save your marriage and keep your family whole... you are doing the very best you can. Keep telling yourself that and if you have any questions just ask 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GTNBoom (Oct 24, 2016)

1. You know what happens when you spy and tell the woman what you found out?

She becomes paranoid. Looks over her shoulder all the time. Feels trapped. Feels like someone is watching her all the time. 

That's not a good formula for a successful marriage. 

Spying is always the wrong answer unless you are 100% prepared to take the "evidence" you get and act on it. Meaning if she is cheating you divorce. 

Otherwise you have just created a new mess whereby the woman, even if she says she will stop cheating, will not trust you and will not feel safe with you.

That is what spying does.

Best Approach

Simply sit down, and have a calm and cool conversation. Tell her what you are thinking and feeling by what you know. And then let her react to it. Listen to her and don't try to interrupt or question her or tell her what to do. 

After that if I was you, I'd sharpen myself and make sure I am doing the right behaviors to make her feel 

Safe - Special - Happy

And to behave in a way the promotes high trust (masculine behaviors)

That is a formula for success. 


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Always make sure the woman you marry is dumber and less educated than you.


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Always make sure the woman you marry is dumber and less educated than you.


I definitely screwed up on that one..


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

mcgyver said:


> I definitely screwed up on that one..


Next time you will know better.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

The thing is if the you do not get to the truth of the matter it will eat away at you. Especially when she goes out of town. 

If you have never mistrusted your wife then all of a sudden you gut is telling you something is wrong. Go with you gut feeling on this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

ABHale said:


> The thing is if the you do not get to the truth of the matter it will eat away at you. Especially when she goes out of town.
> 
> If you have never mistrusted your wife then all of a sudden you gut is telling you something is wrong. Go with you gut feeling on this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's it. I asked her about it directly and she said she has never cheated on me. I mentioned some details that were brought up and she didn't deny going to the bar, but said it was once. Per/Text message conversation I knew it was twice but I didn't divulge that information at the time, and she had trouble looking me in the eye for about 3 minutes. I'm trying to get myself past it what I believe happened. Yesterday I heard on the recording as she was pulling out of her parking spot at work she nailed a curb with her front bumper. She cursed herself for it pretty good, and I brought it up this morning after seeing it as we were leaving (it's very noticeable damage) and she played it off like she didn't know what happened, she "must" have hit something. I decided not to give her a hard time about it. I just don't know where to be with this relationship anymore. After a lengthy conversation the other night I feel like we got to a better place, but caught her in another lie. I made it a point to give her a hard time about where she spent some money to get her to hopefully talk in her car and it worked. I cannot make out the conversation in full because of engine noise and the radio was on, but I got the gist of her complaining really hard about me giving her a hard time about it to someone. She told me that night that I'm the only person she has to talk to about these relationship problems. Another lie. I've never had a reason to not trust her until recently. I want to believe it's just coincidence. But.. she keeps lying. I'm going on a guys trip in 2 weeks out of town for 3 nights, she wont have the kids 2 of them. I decided to keep the real time GPS tracking on her car during that time to see what transpires and will go from there. It's making me sick to my stomach...


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

The more one lies, the easier it gets... it is troubling and addictive behavior for sure.

I just recently read this article:

Forbes Welcome

It doesn't excuse it, but it does add an explanation for what decreases and thus triggers the desire to expand.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Put a var in the bedroom. 

Also if you can place a micro cam on the entrances of the home then you will see who comes in and out. 

If you can get out of the guys weekend then watch and see what happens. Rent a car, use the gps on the car to see where she goes. Follow her and it doesn't matter if she gets away for a little. 

Or

Hire a pi to follow her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

If your state allows you to print out separation/divorce papers off the internet do this. Tell her you deserve the truth that you know she is talking to someone about this and something has happened. Besides the info you have tell her her body language has give her away as well (she is acting guilty). Do not let her break in, get out what you have to say and ask for a direct answer. If she still deny's then hand her the papers and ask her to move out of the bedroom or move your stuff out into a spare room.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Citylinesox (Jan 31, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> Always make sure the woman you marry is dumber and less educated than you.




Haha



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Can you move the VAR in the car to a better location? Or you might get a wired mic for the VAR which you can run to a better location. I've read of people putting the VAR up under the dashboard where it is easy to remove but hard to see. Then run the plug-in mic to a gap like where the steering column goes into the dash. Use little zip ties or Velcro wraps to secure the mic and wire. Except for a trained mechanic nobody would know it wasn't supposed to be there.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> The more one lies, the easier it gets... it is troubling and addictive behavior for sure.
> 
> I just recently read this article:
> 
> ...


Some people just lie when they don't need to. It's their nature and gets easier as time goes by. Hitting the curb, for example. She didn't need to lie, it was the path of least resistance.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PM @weightlifter. He can do magic with rough VAR recordings.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Malaise said:


> Some people just lie when they don't need to. It's their nature and gets easier as time goes by. Hitting the curb, for example. She didn't need to lie, it was the path of least resistance.


Perhaps, but to self-condition oneself to lie about so many insignificant things prepares oneself to lie about the notable and important things, the least resistant easily becoming the least restrained and thus a companion to poor choices.


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

Listen, man, you say you feel like an idiot monitoring her... I get that. But its already telling you things about her that are surprizing you. My WW didnt talk much in her car either. Because she did all her talking face to face or on hidden apps or texts. 

My wife & I are both professionals. She is higher educated (two degrees vs. my one) She travels for work as well like your wife does. I caught her in a well-hidden affair with her boss. She gaslighted me and lied her ass off until it was undeniable. 

See, here's the thing. You two have your life at home, and then you have another life at work. Listen to me very carefully. She likely spends MORE time with some of those coworkers than she does you. Think about it- sit down and do the math- counting sleep hours etc... Do you really think shes not going to befriend these people? Now, the other thing is this- out of those people, how many are men, and would like to get in her pants? My WW and OM hid it VERY well from everybody. 

What kind of office is it? My workplace was almost all men- and we worked on highly technical stuff with hard deadlines (think engineering projects). My wife's office on the other hand is more people oriented stuff. They network. They go out to eat lunch every day. When traveling, a lot of it is just seminars and conferences. When traveling, the coworkers eat meals at nice restaurants and visit bars for drinks after supper. The conferences have 'socials', perks, and activities planned for attendees. Its a perfect storm for breeding affairs, and that crap ought not to be allowed. The temptation is there- and it is very strong. They get too accustomed to it, and next thing they are in trouble. 

Her traveling for work is like an adult vacation with no kids in sight. ok? Now what bad could possibly happen when her boss decides he wants to get in her pants and starts 'working on her'? He's her boss- he makes the decisions. He makes a pile of money. He's the alpha rooster in the henhouse. What happens when he starts giving her the right kind of attention? You start looking like a chump to her- that's what happens. It happens so frequently that I believe its almost inevititable. 

After I caught her, I bluffed a full confession out of her. My wifes affair started by her working too closely with this guy. Eating lunch with him every day, riding in cars with him, staying late to finish stuff up. He worked on her with game, persued her relentlessly. She confided marital issues with him about our relationship where he convinced her to see me in a negative light. That progressed to a kiss in the office afterhours. Next trip they took, the guy wined and dined her and invited himself to watch TV in her room- and my wife became an adulterer. They started by only getting together on those trips- then it progressed to vehicles and behind locked doors in the office several times a week. 

I had no clue whatsoever until more than eight months later she became too complacent about texting with him and I began to get suspicious. She had been screwing him for that long, and acting at home like she always had. It was a masterful performance. 

I'm just telling you to lay low until you know for sure WTF is going on. Don't confront. Dont act weird. Just fake it. Keep monitoring religiously. Dont get caught! If you can afford a PI, hire one. When you are on your trip- have multiple vars placed strategically. Keep it up until you catch her, or else you are SURE there's nothing going on. 

Where you dont want to be is in limbo several years from now with a suspected cheater that has learned how to play the game and not get caught- which is where you will be if you dont catch her and have solid evidence. Evidence gives you leverage- divorce or reconcile- if you have evidence you can make informed decisions and she can't deny it, lie to family and friends, and rewrite history. Knowing what I know now, your wifes actions bear investigation. Chill out, lay low, catch her, get the evidence!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

destroyd said:


> Listen, man, you say you feel like an idiot monitoring her... I get that. But its already telling you things about her that are surprizing you. My WW didnt talk much in her car either. Because she did all her talking face to face or on hidden apps or texts.
> 
> My wife & I are both professionals. She is higher educated (two degrees vs. my one) She travels for work as well like your wife does. I caught her in a well-hidden affair with her boss. She gaslighted me and lied her ass off until it was undeniable.
> 
> ...


Why is she still your wife?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

mcgyver said:


> That's it. I asked her about it directly and she said she has never cheated on me. I mentioned some details that were brought up and she didn't deny going to the bar, but said it was once. Per/Text message conversation I knew it was twice but I didn't divulge that information at the time, and she had trouble looking me in the eye for about 3 minutes. I'm trying to get myself past it what I believe happened. Yesterday I heard on the recording as she was pulling out of her parking spot at work she nailed a curb with her front bumper. She cursed herself for it pretty good, and I brought it up this morning after seeing it as we were leaving (it's very noticeable damage) and she played it off like she didn't know what happened, she "must" have hit something. I decided not to give her a hard time about it. I just don't know where to be with this relationship anymore. After a lengthy conversation the other night I feel like we got to a better place, but caught her in another lie. I made it a point to give her a hard time about where she spent some money to get her to hopefully talk in her car and it worked. I cannot make out the conversation in full because of engine noise and the radio was on, but I got the gist of her complaining really hard about me giving her a hard time about it to someone. She told me that night that I'm the only person she has to talk to about these relationship problems. Another lie. I've never had a reason to not trust her until recently. I want to believe it's just coincidence. But.. she keeps lying. I'm going on a guys trip in 2 weeks out of town for 3 nights, she wont have the kids 2 of them. I decided to keep the real time GPS tracking on her car during that time to see what transpires and will go from there. It's making me sick to my stomach...


I am sorry you followed the advise of a couple of unexperienced posters. This may harm you for years if you do not stop that.

If there is an affair going on you just sent it underground with the above. The lies indicate problems and red flags. Now stop giving her information, stop talking about it and start watching and looking into the matter. Many posters like you come back later and say 'I should have listened to you guys'.....


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

destroyd said:


> Listen, man, you say you feel like an idiot monitoring her... I get that. But its already telling you things about her that are surprizing you. My WW didnt talk much in her car either. Because she did all her talking face to face or on hidden apps or texts.
> 
> *My wife & I are both professionals. She is higher educated* (two degrees vs. my one) She travels for work as well like your wife does. I caught her in a well-hidden affair with her boss. She gaslighted me and lied her ass off until it was undeniable.
> 
> ...


*

OP,
Forgive my thread jack but if you, or anyone else for that matter, can read the bolded above and see intelligence then we have vastly differing definitions of what constitutes intelligence. What I see is immaturity, lack of self respect, one who is unsure of herself, her life, her feelings and pretty much everything she thinks she knows, one easily manipulated and sadly lacking in integrity, a person of poor moral character, in other words a young teenage girl. A girl who has not yet developed sufficient intellect to be able to see through her "boss" like a looking glass, understand her place as wife and mother, understand honor and integrity, truly know who she is and why and have a good moral compass.

If she were truly intelligent this would not be happening to you now. Intelligent people do things out of reason and logic and with rationale and if she were such, you could simply express your concerns, ask for her explanation and get a reasonable response. The fact that you cannot is very telling and forces you to sleuth around to find the truth.
You must remember the mentality you are dealing with and treat her accordingly.*


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Intelligent doesn't mean smart. Many intelligent people are foolish. Many kids I went to school with seemed so unintelligent I wondered how they would keep from starving. Their successes have amazed me.

Go into detective mode. Keep quiet and act normal. It is your job as a father to protect your kids and family. If that takes snooping so be it. Use any tool you can find. No beta excuses, just do it.

Are you saying you had no idea how handy she can be with a small lie?

NEVER tell her how you know what you know. Never tell her all you know.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

mcgyver said:


> That's it. I asked her about it directly and she said she has never cheated on me. I mentioned some details that were brought up and she didn't deny going to the bar, but said it was once. Per/Text message conversation I knew it was twice but I didn't divulge that information at the time, and she had trouble looking me in the eye for about 3 minutes. I'm trying to get myself past it what I believe happened. Yesterday I heard on the recording as she was pulling out of her parking spot at work she nailed a curb with her front bumper. She cursed herself for it pretty good, and I brought it up this morning after seeing it as we were leaving (it's very noticeable damage) and she played it off like she didn't know what happened, she "must" have hit something. I decided not to give her a hard time about it. I just don't know where to be with this relationship anymore. After a lengthy conversation the other night I feel like we got to a better place, but caught her in another lie. I made it a point to give her a hard time about where she spent some money to get her to hopefully talk in her car and it worked. I cannot make out the conversation in full because of engine noise and the radio was on, but I got the gist of her complaining really hard about me giving her a hard time about it to someone. She told me that night that I'm the only person she has to talk to about these relationship problems. Another lie. I've never had a reason to not trust her until recently. I want to believe it's just coincidence. But.. she keeps lying. I'm going on a guys trip in 2 weeks out of town for 3 nights, she wont have the kids 2 of them. I decided to keep the real time GPS tracking on her car during that time to see what transpires and will go from there. It's making me sick to my stomach...


Confronting a possible cheater without any evidence is breaking rule number one. Successfully doing so is so rare as to being nonexistent.

Now you are several steps behind. If it turns out she hasn't cheated, its not your fault she has been acting squirrelly and lying to your face.

There are many possible signs to cheating. New lingerie you never see her wearing, immediately showering when she comes home, new personal grooming down below, more or less sex with you than normal, new sexual techniques, shopping without buying things, working late, going to work early, lying about where she's been, angry when asked about it, new interests in music, dressing up more, more make up, new hair style, working out, losing weight, working out, hiding phone/device screens, sleeping with phone taking it everywhere even while taking a bath, etc.

Her phone connection with your child's Ipad may be promising. are the connected with the cloud?

Pretend you believe everything she has said and investigate, its your duty.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Chaparral said:


> *Go into detective mode. Keep quiet and act normal. It is your job as a father to protect your kids and family. If that takes snooping so be it. Use any tool you can find. No beta excuses, just do it.*
> 
> *NEVER tell her how you know what you know. Never tell her all you know.*


^^^ THIS ^^^

Mouth SHUT! Ear, Eyes open.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Your wife has no problem lying to you and you have evidence that she is discussing your relationship with someone outside the marriage. Others have given you good tools to find an on-going affair.

However, if the physical cheating was one time, on that trip where she was missing in action, you may have a problem. Did her attitude toward you change when she got home from that trip?

See if you can get more info from the person who told you she was in the bar two nights. Was she with someone at the bar? Did she leave the bar with someone?


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

TDSC60 said:


> Your wife has no problem lying to you and you have evidence that she is discussing your relationship with someone outside the marriage. Others have given you good tools to find an on-going affair.
> 
> However, if the physical cheating was one time, on that trip where she was missing in action, you may have a problem. Did her attitude toward you change when she got home from that trip?
> 
> See if you can get more info from the person who told you she was in the bar two nights. Was she with someone at the bar? Did she leave the bar with someone?


No it didn't. We have a great relationship and friendship. She called me for about 30 minutes on the car ride home was excited to be coming home. We have sex a LOT. She thanks me daily for our life together. 

Someone early mentioned her boss... her boss and everyone in her department are women. The hardest part of this all is we don't have combined social circles. As far as her phone, I saw her take it into the bathroom the other day for about 5 minutes, bring it out on the counter, set it down, look at me and state that she's taking our kids to bed. I have a feel she is baiting me to look at it, yet removed everything from it, because she takes it everywhere with her 99% of the time. I haven't even been looking at it to try to get her to not be shady about it. She changed her itunes password, I cannot track it anymore. I have VAR in car, bedroom and real time GPS tracking on her car. It's amazing how convincing she is that nothing is going on, and when we're out just the two of us it's like it always has been--fun and exciting. She is my best friend. If I don't find anything soon or when I'm away on my trip in 2 weeks I'm going to shut this operation down. It's driving me crazy and I think I at least need a break. When I'm in her car I am getting anxiety attacks--because I hear things like her SYNC connecting that I hear on the VAR and it is making me so sick. She notices. I can't help it I've tried being normal.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

McGyver, you have to hold it together for a while longer. Do not give up now. YOu will be glad that you did either way.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

i think your approach is sensible...i wonder how she would feel (seeing you will be out of town) how she will feel if she can not get a hold of you? perhaps those days where she is will not have the kids...i bet (esp.) if she is up to something, not knowing where you are at that moment may make her paranoid.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

mcgyver Your gut is the most state of the art technology on the planet

You are right to follow it

55


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

McG..... picture yourself at work and the woman of your dreams comes aboard. How would you

keep from getting caught? Also.... when the police ask one to come in for questioning, they tell

very little to nothing of what they already know. "Tell us what you know and we'll go easy on you"

Something's not right. WSs always slip up, always.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

mcgyver said:


> No it didn't. We have a great relationship and friendship. She called me for about 30 minutes on the car ride home was excited to be coming home. We have sex a LOT. She thanks me daily for our life together.
> 
> Someone early mentioned her boss... her boss and everyone in her department are women. The hardest part of this all is we don't have combined social circles. As far as her phone, I saw her take it into the bathroom the other day for about 5 minutes, bring it out on the counter, set it down, look at me and state that she's taking our kids to bed. I have a feel she is baiting me to look at it, yet removed everything from it, because she takes it everywhere with her 99% of the time. I haven't even been looking at it to try to get her to not be shady about it. She changed her itunes password, I cannot track it anymore. I have VAR in car, bedroom and real time GPS tracking on her car. It's amazing how convincing she is that nothing is going on, and when we're out just the two of us it's like it always has been--fun and exciting. She is my best friend. If I don't find anything soon or when I'm away on my trip in 2 weeks I'm going to shut this operation down. It's driving me crazy and I think I at least need a break. When I'm in her car I am getting anxiety attacks--because I hear things like her SYNC connecting that I hear on the VAR and it is making me so sick. She notices. I can't help it I've tried being normal.



Eh...This is One Big Red Flag....You do not have a great relationship and friendship. She is playing you!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

mcgyver said:


> If I don't find anything soon or when I'm away on my trip in 2 weeks I'm going to shut this operation down. It's driving me crazy and I think I at least need a break. When I'm in her car I am getting anxiety attacks--because I hear things like her SYNC connecting that I hear on the VAR and it is making me so sick. She notices. I can't help it I've tried being normal.


I am not at all surprised that spying on your spouse is making you sick. It would make me sick, too. It is all deception, and deception bothers our conscience, whether we are cheating or spying.

If you do not trust her, why not just file? 

If she does not want the divorce, you can ask her to convince you she has not been lying to you. If she confesses, and you still want to be with her, ask her to re-earn your trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Always make sure the woman you marry is dumber and less educated than you.


Bandit. Come on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

jld said:


> Bandit. Come on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:grin2:


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

mcgyver said:


> It's amazing how convincing she is that nothing is going on, and when we're out just the two of us it's like it always has been--fun and exciting. She is my best friend.


Women in general value the relationship more than sex. That’s why when caught in an affair they tell their husband that it was only sex. They think that’s comforting because that is want they would want to hear if the situation was reversed. i.e. the relationship was always secure. In their mind the sex means little or nothing when compared to the relationship. The primary reason they don’t want their husband having sex with another woman is because that could threaten their relationship.

I know of several cases where the WW loved their husband very much and planned to grow old with them. The OM was just for fun and no harm done if no one found out. In one case the wife bought her husband an extravagant gift out of the blue during her affair because she loved him so much. (I think it was her way of expressing to herself how strong the relationship was and that her affair didn’t matter)

In the great majority of cases the WS vilifies their BS in order to justify their affair and feel less guilty. They blow up small things that the BS did. This newly developed low opinion of their spouse makes them treat them differently and usually is the first sign of an affair.

People that think that sex is meaningless don’t have to go through this process. They don’t feel guilty about what they’re doing and don’t have to degrade their spouse. Their spouse is great so they treat them as they always have.

The other more common explanation for why your wife can act so normal is that she has a great ability to compartmentalize. It might be a little of both. She has no plan to ever leave you so it isn't that bad.









[


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

jld said:


> If she does not want the divorce, you can ask her to convince you she has not been lying to you. If she confesses, and you still want to be with her, ask her to re-earn your trust.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have told her that I do not trust her and she said she wants to work to re-earn my trust. She will not confess to any wrong doing, she says she loves me and that she is not perfect with everything she has done in her life, but she is perfect when it comes to being faithful. I have no hard evidence to support otherwise, but the further I dig in the sicker it is making me. I can't eat. I can't sleep. I can't stop thinking about it. My best audio is not audible due to engine noise and highway noise, I'm trying to find a way to clean it up so I can hear conversations better. Some I can only hear her talking but cannot make out what she's saying. I have tried a few different programs but I cannot seem to get it clean.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

mcgyver said:


> I have told her that I do not trust her and she said she wants to work to re-earn my trust. She will not confess to any wrong doing, she says she loves me and that she is not perfect with everything she has done in her life, but she is perfect when it comes to being faithful. I have no hard evidence to support otherwise, but the further I dig in the sicker it is making me. I can't eat. I can't sleep. I can't stop thinking about it. My best audio is not audible due to engine noise and highway noise, I'm trying to find a way to clean it up so I can hear conversations better. Some I can only hear her talking but cannot make out what she's saying. I have tried a few different programs but I cannot seem to get it clean.


McGyver

The tried and true saying on these forums is TRUST YOUR GUT!!!! And you gut is telling you not to rugsweep this.

If she is so adamant about being truthful she should NOT be so pissed off that when she says she is one place and that is a lie that you would get suspicious. You have two choices. Let he gas light you or demand as someone said she prove to you she is not lying to you about cheating and a polygraph can do that in 30 minutes. Her reaction if you ask for it will tell you something even if you never intend to do it, but you should. my guess is she will resemble a ghost.

Married folks do not lie to their spouse about where they are for no reason. if you can come up with open lets hear it. So either you get intimidated by her getting mad and put your head in sand and hope for the best or you push back and let her prove what she says.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Try moving the VAR or use a wired mic routed to a better location.

In the meantime, stfu to her about your suspicions and not trusting her. She will be extra careful if she thinks you are suspicious. That's why the VAR is so powerful, because cheaters (and all of us) feel we are truly alone when in our car.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Graywolf2 said:


> Women in general value the relationship more than sex. That’s why when caught in an affair they tell their husband that it was only sex. They think that’s comforting because that is want they would want to hear if the situation was reversed. i.e. the relationship was always secure. In their mind the sex means little or nothing when compared to the relationship. The primary reason they don’t want their husband having sex with another woman is because that could threaten their relationship.
> 
> I know of several cases where the WW loved their husband very much and planned to grow old with them. The OM was just for fun and no harm done if no one found out. In one case the wife bought her husband an extravagant gift out of the blue during her affair because she loved him so much. (I think it was her way of expressing to herself how strong the relationship was and that her affair didn’t matter)
> 
> ...


Although I generally see what you are saying, I think you need to be careful of generalizing too much here. Some women may see sex as fun only, but many equate sex WITH the relationship and with love. Same as with some men. My wife would not be able to have a sex only relationship. There would have to be a greater attraction than just sexual. I have known many others like this. They aren't the ONS types. To them, sex is a way of showing affection. I don't doubt that many women see things as you describe, but obviously every person is different. 

I think the same can be said about men too though. There are certainly some who are more worried about their wife falling in love then they are about sex. For these men, an EA is more damaging than a drunken ONS, which they can chalk up to a mistake. 

To me, what it boils down to is having a spouse willingly do something they know may kill their marriage and end in divorce. That shows me that they value the excitement OVER their marriage. Whether it is sexual or emotional means little when you consider they wanted THAT more than they wanted their marriage.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

mcgyver said:


> I have told her that I do not trust her and she said she wants to work to re-earn my trust. She will not confess to any wrong doing, she says she loves me and that she is not perfect with everything she has done in her life, but she is perfect when it comes to being faithful. I have no hard evidence to support otherwise, but the further I dig in the sicker it is making me. I can't eat. I can't sleep. I can't stop thinking about it. My best audio is not audible due to engine noise and highway noise, I'm trying to find a way to clean it up so I can hear conversations better. Some I can only hear her talking but cannot make out what she's saying. I have tried a few different programs but I cannot seem to get it clean.


She may be your best friend as you say but are you hers?

Her talk is cheap.

Her actions in misleading you say otherwise.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

mcgyver said:


> I have told her that I do not trust her and she said she wants to work to re-earn my trust. She will not confess to any wrong doing, she says she loves me and that she is not perfect with everything she has done in her life, but she is perfect when it comes to being faithful. I have no hard evidence to support otherwise, but the further I dig in the sicker it is making me. I can't eat. I can't sleep. I can't stop thinking about it. My best audio is not audible due to engine noise and highway noise, I'm trying to find a way to clean it up so I can hear conversations better. Some I can only hear her talking but cannot make out what she's saying. I have tried a few different programs but I cannot seem to get it clean.


If she was serious about re-earning your trust, she would be 100% transparent. She needs to give you total access to everything... phone, emails, social media accounts...everything, including allowing a location sharing app so that you can see where she is at any point. If she HAS been faithful, she may feel offended by this, but if she cares about your trust and your relationship, she will agree. (after all, if the tables were turned, she would want the same from you) If she hasn't been, she may start out sharing this stuff, but will eventually start changing passwords without telling you, stating that you should just trust her. I know that game, it happened to me with an ex bf.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Graywolf2 said:


> Women in general value the relationship more than sex.





TX-SC said:


> Although I generally see what you are saying, I think you need to be careful of generalizing too much here.


I understand what you’re saying and appreciate you trying to keep me out of trouble. That’s why I said “in general” but often that isn’t enough.

In general men are taller than women. There are some very short guys and very tall women. Everyone is supposed to be the same and you get in trouble if you say anything different.


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

Where do I even have a polygraph done?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

mcgyver said:


> Where do I even have a polygraph done?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Start by asking your local police. They have people they use and might recommend.


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

Graywolf2 said:


> Start by asking your local police. They have people they use and might recommend.


She's prescribed adderall for ADHD. I understand this may give the person being tested an advantage...


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

mcgyver said:


> I have tried a few different programs but I cannot seem to get it clean.


I have noticed that there is a big difference between the cheapest VARs and higher quality ones.

One aspect I remember about spying is the stress of it. I remember my heart beating faster and harder than it ever had before.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

mcgyver said:


> Where do I even have a polygraph done?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For what it's worth, I think it is not the right time for a polygraph. I strongly advise against it at this time.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

well Mcgyver, you should at least tell her that..."fine you tell me that you have been 100% faithful to me, and accept that, however i giving you a chance to be honest with me now if i find out later we are divorcing." it may make her think twice


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Well, it would seem that you blew right past the "eyes open mouth shut" portion of @weightlifter's thread.

Ugh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mcgyver (Oct 20, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> I have noticed that there is a big difference between the cheapest VARs and higher quality ones.
> 
> One aspect I remember about spying is the stress of it. I remember my heart beating faster and harder than it ever had before.


I have the recommended Sony 312. She has a bag/big sack type thing that clips around the front of the driver seat and hanging off her driver seat that I have it in. She has some toys the kids don't use in the main compartment. The small compartment it's in is just big enough for it. Actualy there's a small enough compartment on each side to conceal it. I just removed it from next to the back seat door to the same slot on the other side of the driver seat in hopes of getting better sound quality. hopefully this works better.

As far as heart beating... if I make it 15 minutes without taking a piss I am doing good. I am so uncomfortable right now..


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I agree with Thor that you need to back off for a while and stop talking about it with her. It is only going to make her more careful, which will in turn make it harder for you to catch her. 

Be nice as pie to her. Don't mention your suspicions. It is way to early for a polygraph. A polygraph is for AFTER you catch them or after they confess, to ensure that they are giving you the whole story. Trying to get a polygraph now will just send her through the stratosphere. She will be daring you to divorce her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

McG ..... how often do you take out of town trips? Can one "just come up" and you sit back

and watch her actions? You may need to give her an opportunity and see what she will do.

As for the poster(s) who feel McG was wrong in snooping....

Just like allowing technology into our every day lives, entering a marriage.... 

you give up your right to privacy.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Chuck71 said:


> Just like allowing technology into our every day lives, entering a marriage....
> 
> you give up your right to privacy.


I wouldn't say that , but when she lies and acts sketchy while out of town, she damn well deserves to be snooped on by him ... big time.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Snooping is hopefully a tool to save the marriage not end it. but truth is the ultimate goal.

Think of the lies she has told you. Keep a count. When you eventually confront her it will be useful to tell her you have proof for example of say, twelve different lies. The hardest thing about lying is keeping up with the lies.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

QUOTE=bandit.45;16795225]I agree with Thor that you need to back off for a while and stop talking about it with her. It is only going to make her more careful, which will in turn make it harder for you to catch her. 

Be nice as pie to her. Don't mention your suspicions. It is way to early for a polygraph. A polygraph is for AFTER you catch them or after they confess, to ensure that they are giving you the whole story. Trying to get a polygraph now will just send her through the stratosphere. She will be daring you to divorce her.[/QUOTE]

McGyver

Bandit has a good point here EXCEPT for the fact that you are so upset that you are having a hard time functioning so I am not sure if just sitting still for a few weeks or months wondering and gettin g yourself physically sick is going to be a smart move for you.
I agree you should stop talking to her about it. But your next step should be to ignore the advice about that you should not snoop. What are you supposed to do, sit there and wait for a brick to fall on your head and hope it does not.

If you cannot afford a PI, you quickest and most direct to find out both the truth and where her head is at is to tell her you need her to prove she is not cheating to you or you are divorcing her. She can do that with a polygraph test. If she has absolutely nothing to hide, she should be dragging your ass to the examiner. My wife was cheating and one of the main reasons after I got the whole story that she even got to be married any more is that she on her own found and set up a polygraph test place and anytime I got quiet or upset about anything she asked if it was time to do it. And as far as that now is not the time to do it, that is also a good point if someone told you it could only be done once. But if you find she HAS been cheating, then you just tell her she will be a frequent flyer at the examiner';s office if she wants to stay married to you.

You have to understand, even if you never get to a polygraph, the knowledge that it is hanging over her head will make it clear that while she may cheat or cheat again but she WILL get caught and rather quickly. She has to believe that and believe that the consequence of not telling the truth will end the marriage.

And if she absolutely refuses, guess what that tells you.

Now your health is of utmost importance here, and you will not remain mentally or physically healthy here if you do not get some answers, and not 6 months or a year from now. And snooping through VAR and other means is exhausting for more than a certain period. If you were calm about all of this, and some guys can remain calm, maybe your best course might be different.

But from what you have posted my advice to you is to go on the offensive, force her to show what she really feels and thinks, and get your answers to make a decision.

I know others will disagree. Just my $ .02


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

@weightlifter and @GusPolinski. I read on another site that emojos have there own history storied on a phone on that tracts their usage but not tied to the text associated with each use. While not useful to know what was written the fact it was usesd is logged. Inferences can be made from how often it is used or not used. So a "I love you" emojo never commonly used it raises a red flag. 

Do not know if there is a way to associate it with a phone number, which would be very useful. 

I remember when my nephew was 13 and the subject of porn sites came up him swearing the idea of porn sites where disguising and he had never visited one on his computer. I simply typed the letter "P" into the Http: bar and bang busted, I had read the phrase "went pale" thousands of times first time I saw it. Anyway never had to warn him about posting on social media after that.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Necessity is an excellent motivator. You feel that "snooping" on your wife is wrong but it is necessary due to her behavior. She is actually the cause of your "snooping" since, had she been totally straightforward with you it would not be necessary for you to find the truth. The truth would already be known. However, since she refuses to act in that manner then you must do what is necessary to allay your concerns. You must not see it as wrong but rather as a means of self preservation.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Was away. Sorry. PMed back


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Quote from a Random Person:-


> "Snooping in marriage is always wrong!"


_
Really? So, is sticking a knife in someone always wrong?_

Random Person: "Yeah! It's against the law and it's always wrong!"

_And what if the knife is being used by a Doctor to release the poison with a life-threatening staph cyst? Is that wrong?_

Random Person: "Well, no! That's different! That's to save a life!"

_Well, what about snooping on your spouse when you think they are a cheater?_

Random Person: "That's not fair! It's still wrong to snoop on your spouse!"

_Snort! OK, good luck with that attitude!_

Random Person: "My spouse just blindsided me! He/she wants a divorce! Apparently they've been having an affair for five years and although I suspected that something was wrong, I never snooped on them!"

_Oh. Oh dear. Sorry, but if you'd taken our advice to snoop five years ago, we could have helped you, but there's nothing we can do to help, now. Except to tell you to lawyer up._


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

If you have access to your cell phone providers website you can easily review the records from her phone. What I have done to give me a phone number to chase is just download all of the phone records. you can usually sort them by number and download them into excel, google sheets, or open office. Then Visibly scroll through the numbers until you find the biggest blocks of numbers. Then Google the phone numbers. Even if it is a cell number there are some sites out there that can give you a primary name on an account. Then use the name on her facebook page. This all should take less than 30 minutes of your time. Plus if you find someone that you suspect you can then establish a pattern. Patterns of numbers grouped around another man is bad. If the most contact number is not you or family members or close female friends you have a big problem. 
Her behavior is projection and guilt. Ignore them because if she really wanted to deal with this she would explain herself and apologize. Right now you want to stop confronting and start gathering information. Figure out how deep the rabbit hole goes. If you are tech savy enough you can root or jailbreak her phone if YOU bought it and install tools that can give you a lot of options. IE realtime location and the ability to turn on the phones mic to record and even the camera. Barring that a Voice Activated recorder a good one battery can last a year or more. Put it in her car. Also if you are a part of a conversation you can record that conversation so record what she says to you. Trust me our memories suck and nothing is more annoying when seeking truth from some one is not having the ability to call them out on a lie. polygraphs can be junk depending on what questions are asked and if the person asking the questions interprets the responses correctly. The tv show Lie to Me demonstrates this fact well and pen and teller have debunked the polygraph as being the and all be all go to for truth. The poly graph just shows that someone reacts to something. You need to know more before you decide anything that mean preparing yourself to take a knife to the back from someone you have trusted for a long time. I am going through a divorce now because I uncovered and emotional affair but missed the fact that my wife was spending me almost out of my and my kids home had I been aware I could have done more earlier and then maybe I wouldn't be on the track that I am or wasted more of my life in a bogus marriage.


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## Dan Moloney (Aug 9, 2016)

mcgyver how did your problem end up i hope it was sorted out and lived happily ever after


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Graywolf2 said:


> Women in general value the relationship more than sex. That’s why when caught in an affair they tell their husband that it was only sex. They think that’s comforting because that is want they would want to hear if the situation was reversed. i.e. the relationship was always secure. In their mind the sex means little or nothing when compared to the relationship. The primary reason they don’t want their husband having sex with another woman is because that could threaten their relationship.
> 
> I know of several cases where the WW loved their husband very much and planned to grow old with them. The OM was just for fun and no harm done if no one found out. In one case the wife bought her husband an extravagant gift out of the blue during her affair because she loved him so much. (I think it was her way of expressing to herself how strong the relationship was and that her affair didn’t matter)
> 
> ...



Just catching up on this thread now. This was a great piece by Graywolf. So true in so many cases. Brilliant stuff. He does have me wondering though if the BS of the WW wife who brought her husband the amazing gift ditched her for the cheating. But great explanation Graywolf


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