# Making myself sick....



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

I've lost respect, passion and trust in my husband. We have spent 15 years together with 10 years of marriage and 3 great kids. He spends most of his time blaming others for the problems in his life. Mainly me. He would gladly go through life floating through it not making a wave. I however, am the complete opposite of him. I am full of passion and question. I stand up for what I want and he lays down. I protect my own, he cracks a joke about it. He is not good in the sack yet tells me its my fault(and has gotten worse sense "we talked about it". I've lost respect because I realize he brings nothing to my life. I can do what ever he can, and better in most cases. I've lost trust because he lacks knowledge to complete anything in a competent manor. Simple things seem so hard for him to complete. He is clingy and possessive in a child like manor. The problem is....He is a good guy and is trying to "man Up". I'm making myself sick about this because it seems the only emotion he can get from me is anger and he doesn't deserve that for simply being who he is. I feel like he is my 4th child. I'm a good looking woman in my 30's. My prime and I feel like I'm wasting my time with a man who doesn't know who he is. I know this post seems harsh...but I have a lot of years of things running through my head...I once loved his boyish tendency. Now they are sickening to me. I desperately want a man in my life. But also want a long fulfilling marriage. I may be able to get a long marriage ... but I will not be fulfilling. He tries to touch me and I cringe. We have sex and it go's poorly and he breaks down. He begs me to give him more chances...I do and he screws up then breaks down... I am avoiding sex and any other type of affection to avoid his break down. The last thing I want is him feeling like ****.


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

And yes, we are in counseling...He just regurgitates the stuff I said to him during the week at the session. Poor guy is so lost.


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

You sound very demeaning for a wife who has been married for 10 years and has 3 kids with this "poor guy". 

Stop having no respect for your husband. He is man enough to father 3 children with u and put up with your bossy attitude for 15 years. 

you have played a big part in allowing his self confidence to be crushed the point of him crying in bed. 

Help him find his confidence and Alphaness. Its your job as a wife to help him. Are u "good enough" to do that for this "poor guy"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do you work full time outside the home? If so what part of the family income do you bring in?

What are your plans for ending this marriage?


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

synthetic said:


> You sound very demeaning for a wife who has been married for 10 years and has 3 kids with this "poor guy".
> 
> Stop having no respect for your husband. He is man enough to father 3 children with u and put up with your bossy attitude for 15 years.
> 
> ...



^^^ I saw this coming...and I deserve it. I have to admit in the mind frame I was in last night as I wrote this, I am not proud of how the words left my fingers. I'm extremity bitter because I feel that I have been helping him find his confidence through out our whole relationship. I was not born a *****, I was made one. I would make pancakes for him and he laughs at their size. Poking and poking at my little quarks to the point where I no longer make pancakes. I make his lunch, he pokes at how there TOO much food...pokes and pokes. He makes his own lunch now. We have sex and I guide him toward what makes me feel good, and he does it his own way anyhow with a quick ending. Try feeling like a piece of meat for 15 years before you cast judgement on me. I have been soft in my approach...so kind and suggestive about this stuff for so long. I am exhausted. I don't want to be this person I have become. I can't keep trying the same methods to get through to him expecting a different result. So I've changed my method. I've become his mother. 
I never said he was not a great man or great father. But, he never learned how to be a husband in his VERY Catholic up bringing. 

Before you all cast judgement on me like the rest of the world...Understand we have gone through so much as a married couple...we have gotten through major job loss, home, repo'ed cars, medical issues. We were strong through it all. The hard realization is that WE were not doing it together. I was doing it with him next to me poking at everything but never making a move himself. We appear to be the couple that everyone wants to be like. Seriously...But what happens behind close doors is a different world. 

I didn't come on to this site to get yelled at by some person who has no clue other that what a rambling crying woman is writing in a moment of anger. I would suggest that you ask more questions before you come up with your conclusions. How do you sum 15 years of relationship in a paragraph? How do you judge 15 years of relationship based on one paragraph? 

I don't wish for the marriage to end. I never wanted that... I don't know any other option at this point. 

I don't see the relevance of what % of income I bring into the home. I bring in enough to manage and when my son who is 5 go's to school...I will be bringing in more. I've worked part time (a few years at full time) as my children have been growing.


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

I could never tell him that he is amazing...enough times to build his confidence. I have 3 kids I need to build up now. I don't have energy to focus on him anymore.


----------



## nomoretogive (Oct 29, 2011)

Trying180,

Your story is my story, and I know how frustrating living with someone like this can be; how demeaning their treatment of you is -- OMG, the feeling like a piece of meat comment below brought tears to my eyes, because I have felt that way for YEARS; and how you don't even recognize the woman you've become after years of living with them. 

I'm going through the same thing, and could have written your post nearly word-for-word. In fact, I think one of my earliest posts summarizes a nearly identical situation with my husband. Having gone through the same thing and knowing firsthand how miserable it is, please don't feel like you have to apologize to anyone who hasn't walked in your shoes. I've found that it's nearly impossible for anyone else to understand what it's like to live like this. The only person who seems to get it is my counselor. 

To outsiders, it seems so easy: Spend some time building them up, show them respect, and everything will be great. If only it worked like that. Like you, it doesn't matter how much I build him up -- either he works twice as hard at tearing me down, or he is a bottomless pit, needing more and more praise, to the point where no one could fill him up. I think in my post I mentioned that even my kids have suggested getting him an iPhone 4S with Siri inside, so she can tell him over and over how wonderful he is, because we're sick of doing it. 

I understand what synthetic is saying, that as wives we have an "obligation" to build our husbands up....but it's just too hard to do that on a consistent basis when we're knocked down at every turn. It's definitely too hard to do it once resentment and bitterness have set in. And I maintain that it's not my job solely to build him up; he also has a responsibility to reciprocate if the marriage is to be successful. 

When I read your line below, "I just don't have the energy to focus on him anymore," I could feel where you are, because it gets to the point where it IS exhausting. You just don't have it in you anymore to keep giving and giving of yourself, to get little or nothing in return, except pleas for more and more. 

You mention counseling. Are you guys going together, or are you seeing someone on your own, also? I have found that having someone to talk to about how this is affecting me, without worrying about him jumping in with why I'm wrong, has been a lifesaver. It's crazy how much this has affected me and how good it feels to get some of it off my chest with someone who understands. 

Like you, I've chosen to begin focusing on myself and my children -- the ones I can save. It's been much more productive for me, and it has helped my children immensely. 

You say you don't want the marriage to end...but are you really willing to live like this forever, settling for someone who doesn't make you happy? I realize I'm speaking out of turn here because I haven't divorced mine yet, but it's something to think about. 

Our MC has opined that my husband suffers from a case of arrested development and simply isn't willing to do the hard recovery work to make the changes I feel it will take to make this marriage worth it for me over the long term without some changes on his part. She also made it very clear to both of us that what he is doing is abuse. Until that day, I had never considered it a form of abuse, because there were no bruises. That was an eye-opener. 

Even so, she has asked me to make a 90-day commitment to see if anything at all improves now that we're in counseling and all of the issues are on the table. She has told him that his days of skating through this marriage without any effort are over; that it's time for him to put his money where his mouth is and begin making changes, rather than just talking about them. 

To help in that regard, she is seeing him individually to start addressing some of his issues. At home, I am trying to help him, too. I have specifically written out what it is I and the kids need from him so there is no guessing needed. I bought him a copy of Hold Onto Your N.U.T.S and the No More Mr. Nice Guy book (this one admittedly made things WAY worse; he wasn't mature enough to grasp the content the way it was intended and thought the book was telling him it was okay to be a d!ck). I've found him an older male role model -- he had no father growing up. I'm doing everything I can to help him, but have made it clear I can't do the work for him. 

We're about six weeks in and things aren't getting much better, yet. However, when the 90th day comes, I can throw in the towel knowing I did everything I could to make this marriage work, to help him find his way to being a better husband and father. If it turns out that he didn't do anything to help fix this marriage, that's a choice he made. I can't make him want to fix it, but I can say "enough" and walk away to regain my sanity and help my kids begin to heal. 

I don't know if any of this helps, but I want you to know that I feel for you and your kids and know exactly what you're going through. I wish, though, I was posting to say there is an easy fix to this mess....there just isn't. Keep your head up, keep focusing on yourself and the kids, and keep praying that he figures it out; help him where you can without giving too much of yourself. You will know when you've reached your breaking point, if you haven't already.


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank you for your comment. We are definitely not alone in our story. Unfortunately because I am a strong woman I have attracted a needy man. (looking back I've done it previously also.) Where he needs/wants to spend every moment with me, I struggle for time alone. Perhaps this happened because of having kids. He gives me time alone a few hours, but expects Aphrodite when he returns. Its just not like that. In the past I worked real hard at not loosing myself...little by little the neediness of everyone surrounding me has whittled me down. I woke up one day and was applaud at what I had aloud my children and husband to do to me. So I'm fighting back now...I demand to be pleasured. I demand to be treated with respect and my talents be acknowledged. The hard part is when you demand it and he can't deliver... Its killing him and I. I would be fine if we both just came to an understanding that out marriage will be sexless. I can live with that. what I can't live with is a man who literally begs for it showering me with how all he wants is to please me... So I give in and he's done on the first pump...then cries. 1) I feel like meat 2) he feels like a failure 3) it is a complete turn off for a woman to be begged and or have him cry due to poor performance. ....GAAAAhhhhh... Then their is the selfishness I feel. The way I beat myself up because of how HE feels. But you see...that is how he has controlled me all along. I tell him we are having problems in the bed room, he loses 20 lbs...legs shake "uncontrollably" when we discuss separation. Hes shoulders sag and he rubs his hands like a beaten man. I didn't do this to him...I'm just noticing it now. And I hate it. Oooh god. Why does this have to be so difficult. I don't feel like I'm asking to much. I'm just asking him to love himself so I don't have to prove that I love him all the time.


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> Before you all cast judgement on me like the rest of the world...Understand we have gone through so much as a married couple...we have gotten through major job loss, home, repo'ed cars, medical issues. We were strong through it all. The hard realization is that WE were not doing it together. I was doing it with him next to me poking at everything but never making a move himself. We appear to be the couple that everyone wants to be like. Seriously...But what happens behind close doors is a different world.
> 
> I didn't come on to this site to get yelled at by some person who has no clue other that what a rambling crying woman is writing in a moment of anger. I would suggest that you ask more questions before you come up with your conclusions. How do you sum 15 years of relationship in a paragraph? How do you judge 15 years of relationship based on one paragraph?


Huh?!!

You admit having chosen the wrong words to express yourself and say "I deserve it", then you question my response?!! Do you think your post was disrespectful or not? If you do, then don't pick a fight with me 

I still have a hard time understanding how you easily take credit for every hardship that you as a couple (you called it "we") have gone through without giving him anything at all. I'm not saying he's faultless, but your attitude in seeking help here leaves big question marks.

There is no way in hell anyone with a hint of logic is going to accept that you've been single-handedly carrying this marriage on your shoulders for 10 years. It makes no sense specially when the biggest complain you have about your husband is him "poking" at things you do! 

Your husband has been suffering from insecurities for a long time and I wouldn't be surprised if you've exploited those insecurities to gain the upper hand in the marriage. That's what I get from all the words you've typed in this thread. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

I don't think you're asking for too much. Your husband needs to wake up and indeed love himself enough to not allow anyone (including you) to crush his confidence.



> I'm just asking him to love himself so I don't have to prove that I love him all the time.


Regardless of whether he loves himself or not, as a wife you are expected to prove to him that you love him *all the time*. That's marriage.


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

Is his insecurity my problem? I'm his wife not his mother. 

I've read some of your other post and comments Synthetic... I'm here to vent and if I'm lucky gain a little understanding. What I see you doing is taking your bitterness out on other people. I see you picking a fight with me. From word one you've been sharp and judgmental. You don't like what I write...then quit reading it. I could get into ever instance and explain how he mishandles things in witch causes my mistrust and lack of respect. Or I can just assume I struck a nerve with you and your looking to poor more hurt on me. Either way your advice is given with a grain of salt, and taken with one. 

I've let the nice guy own me for far too long. He is manipulative in ways it took me 15 years to see. As far as my big complaints...you obviously have not been reading my post fully. Maybe if he manned up and stopped being an emotional vampire I would be able to respect him. He must love himself to be able to love me. If he loved himself he would not rely on signs from me that he has value. He comes from a mentally ill mother and an extremest Catholic family. I was a breath of fresh air. So he hooked on. As life went on he started using the guilt method to control me. and I let him. I'm awake now...yeah and Momma bear is a little pissed.


----------



## nomoretogive (Oct 29, 2011)

Your husband has been suffering from insecurities for a long time and I wouldn't be surprised if you've exploited those insecurities to gain the upper hand in the marriage. That's what I get from all the words you've typed in this thread. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

I don't think you're asking for too much. Your husband needs to wake up and indeed love himself enough to not allow anyone (including you) to crush his confidence.


I realize I'm kind of thread-jacking here, but because my situation is so similar to the OP's, synthetic, I'm wondering how you would suggest we fix it, which I think is the spirit of these posts. 

I'm big enough to admit that I have in fact exploited some of my husband's insecurities over the years. I'm not so sure that in doing so I have gained the upper hand in the relationship that you speak of, because I don't feel like I have the upper anything. I'm not sure why I did it, exactly, since there wasn't really any benefit to me in doing so. This is one of the things I am working on in counseling. Did I do it because in doing so it allowed me to feel like I was evening the playing field after being kicked again, or was there some benefit I haven't yet been able to identify? I don't have an answer yet; I only know that by being aware, I don't engage in the behavior anymore.

As far as insecure men needing to wake up and begin to love themselves and rebuild their confidence, how does that happen? What is the process for making that happen? Like I said in my reply, I have purchased my husband the NUTS book and NMMNG book, have supported him during his recovery work in counseling, have encouraged him to go out more with his guy friends and engage in guy activities. I have taken to praising him more when he does something right and not being so critical of things he doesn't get quite right. But you know what? He hasn't done a damn thing for himself except continue to blame me that things aren't the way he would like for them to be. 

What is the answer here? I don't think any of us wives want to be with needy, insecure men. In fact, I'm partly responsible for not recognizing -- or admitting -- some of these issues long before now. We are all crying out that we want to improve our marriages, and most of us women are doing what we can to make that happen, but we have partners who aren't willing to meet us in the middle. What is the answer, then? I can be his biggest cheerleader all day long, just like Trying180, but until HE does something for HIMSELF and becomes open to working on himself, what more can we do?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative here. I'm looking for the solution to fix this problem, just as Trying 180 is. What do us wives need to do? What do our husbands need to do?


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

Nomoretogive...You are far better with controlling the words and emotions then I am in your posts. Like you, I'm not here to argue or defend the type of person I am. everything you've said above is 100% where My husband and I are. I am a strong willed woman...I've had to debate him in so many situations because is was wrong, Nave, ignorant. Much like his parents. I followed his financial decisions down the crapper because I didn't debate or question my husband. Well, sorry people just because he has a penis doesn't make him better or smarter than me. I've tried to work with him...we can't! It takes to much effort to explain every detail to a man who can comprehend what I'm saying, So frustrating. I wish he had a hobby that he did all on his own so I could see him excelling in something that I had no interest in. Instead he clings onto what I do and tries to compete with me. I join a softball league...he joins the year later. I join the YMCA, he joins. I want a garden, he wants input. I read a book, he starts reading the book. I want to go out with the girls, I get guilt-ed because he can't go, or doesn't go out. I urge him to do things...then he want me to tell him what. Help Men...tell us. Do you want mothers, or do you want wives?


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

Trying180 said:


> Nomoretogive...You are far better with controlling the words and emotions then I am in your posts. Like you, I'm not here to argue or defend the type of person I am. everything you've said above is 100% where My husband and I are. I am a strong willed woman...I've had to debate him in so many situations because He was wrong, Nave, ignorant and may have cost us more that a gold "I win" star. He is much like his parents. I followed his financial decisions down the crapper because I didn't debate or question my husband. Well, sorry people.. just because he has a penis doesn't make him better or smarter than me. I've tried to work with him...we can't! It takes to much effort to explain every detail to a man who can comprehend what I'm saying, So frustrating. I wish he had a hobby that he did all on his own so I could see him excelling in something that I had no interest in. Instead he clings onto what I do and tries to compete with me. I join a softball league...he joins the year later. I join the YMCA, he joins. I want a garden, he wants input. I read a book, he starts reading the book. I want to go out with the girls, I get guilt-ed because he can't go, or doesn't go out. I urge him to do things...then he wants me to tell him what. Help Men...tell us. Do you want mothers, or do you want wives?


I keep getting told to focus on his good quality's. Why is that so hard for me. Because they don't involve me at all? He gives all his goodness to other people and I get left with the scraps?


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

My dear Nomoretogive,

What you have done is exemplary. I admire your courage to admit your exploitation of your husband's insecurities and having the resolve to be "aware" so that you "don't engage in the behavior anymore". That's simply outstanding. It means you've grown into a better human being than you previously were. If your marriage ends in divorce, this will be one of the biggest things you take with you: Your growth as a human being. 

As for your husband not doing the right thing to address his insecurities, well, you're right. You can't force him to do anything except *ONE THING*:

You can tell him exactly how you feel in a firm, calm and conclusive tone. If you can't say it to his face, you can always write him a letter.

Once you get that off your chest, make sure he got the message. You have now forced him out of his comfort zone into the anxiety of not being sure about the fate of your marriage. I believe that will kick him into the next gear fairly quickly.

If you have to distance yourself from him, then do so, but don't have an affair and don't check-out of the marriage before giving him a fair amount of time.

I wish you luck and happiness.


----------



## nomoretogive (Oct 29, 2011)

synthetic said:


> My dear Nomoretogive,
> 
> What you have done is exemplary. I admire your courage to admit your exploitation of your husband's insecurities and having the resolve to be "aware" so that you "don't engage in the behavior anymore". That's simply outstanding. It means you've grown into a better human being than you previously were. If your marriage ends in divorce, this will be one of the biggest things you take with you: Your growth as a human being.
> 
> ...


Synthetic, thanks for coming back and commenting to let me know what is needed....but what if I've already done that? I did the talk, I have written the letters. I have given him "space" when he needs it -- aka he leaves in a huff and refuses to take my calls for weeks on end, refuses to see/speak to our children. I have let him back home after he swears that he understands what the problems are and that he is taking steps to fix them....until next time when it all happens again. 

I had to chuckle when you said that forcing him out of his comfort zone should be enough to kick him into gear. You would think, huh? My husband is one of those men who walks out the door, forgets we exist -- by going dark, getting a new phone, refusing to tell us where he is -- and then comes back when he's damn good and ready, and not a minute before. He is impossible to the nth degree. 

My husband spends a lot of time talking about what the problems are -- and boy, can he talk for hours about this -- but spends zero time actually doing something to fix it. One of the common things I tell him is that he has excuses for why things can't work out long-term but never seems to have any solutions for trying to make things better. He is perfectly content blaming me for everything, walking out when he has a fit about this or that, and then groveling to come home and repeat the cycle.

My kids and I are sick of the cycle. We love him, but it's getting to the point where he just is not healthy for any of us. My kids are in counseling dealing with the feeling of being abandoned multiple times, trying to reconcile the fact that they both love and hate their father at the same time. At the same time, though, he doesn't realize that for all the hell he has put us through, we've still got his back and are invested in HIM to get to a better US -- as in our marriage and our family. 

Again, I fully admit that I am likely the cause of some of his insecurities and have exploited some of them over the years. However, in looking back and through counseling, a lot of them existed long before I ever came along. I was just too busy, too naive, too young, too stupid to see it until I did my own recovery work and figured out how dysfunctional our relationship is. 

So even given all he has put us all through, I've pulled myself up by my boot straps, intent on honoring my vows, and have done everything in my power to build this man up, and it just isn't producing any results. He will take until the cows come home, but he refuses to give even an inch. He is mired in negativity, content to be a "victim" the rest of his life. How do you work with that? It's getting to the point where it's difficult to approach each day with him from a positive standpoint, to continue our MC's advice of doing once nice thing every day when I'm not getting anything in return and without being bitter and resentful. 

I'm Catholic and so I have religious opposition to divorce -- and infidelity for that matter, so affairs are out for me -- although, to be honest, the thought has crossed my mind, to feel loved even for just a few minutes. Morally, though, I would never act on it. Instead, I've allowed it to be a motivator to try to get that in my own marriage. 

It may be like someone else said in another thread -- I'm doing all the right things but with the wrong partner. Maybe it really can be explained that easily. I own my part in his insecurity issues, but it's high time he own his and start doing something about it.


----------



## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Help him find his confidence and Alphaness. Its your job as a wife to help him. Are u "good enough" to do that for this "poor guy"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay... I have heard this come out of other people, books, etc but w/ no samples of how to help build up confidence other then authentically appreciate effort and praise him. What suggestions would you have for her? Examples... please. 

@Synthetic
It sounds like it is bothering her the way she feels about him... I have heard men bash their wives on here worse than that and not get such a harsh reply by someone I feel is usually a caring poster (yes, you usually come off w/ more compassion). 

Book suggestions?

To the OP - you both maybe in MC but are you both getting IC. It sounds like it would help. There are several posters on this site that suggest books in their signatures. There's one His needs/her needs or something like that.There are several books. If you love him and know you are losing respect for him, find out why. 

Putting a kid through separation/divorce (I have 3 little ones) horrible. Do what you can to fix what you have, while you can. Some of us here have lost that chance or never had a choice.


----------



## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Trying180 said:


> I would be fine if we both just came to an understanding that out marriage will be sexless. I can live with that. what I can't live with is a man who literally begs for it showering me with how all he wants is to please me... So I give in and he's done on the first pump...then cries. 1) I feel like meat 2) he feels like a failure 3) it is a complete turn off for a woman to be begged and or have him cry due to poor performance. ....GAAAAhhhhh...
> 
> I tell him we are having problems in the bed room, he loses 20 lbs...legs shake "uncontrollably" when we discuss separation. Hes shoulders sag and he rubs his hands like a beaten man. I didn't do this to him...I'm just noticing it now. And I hate it. Oooh god. Why does this have to be so difficult. I don't feel like I'm asking to much. I'm just asking him to love himself so I don't have to prove that I love him all the time.


Has he had a thorough physical? 
If all his health checks out there is always sex therapy? 
IC?


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Mamatomany,

You're right I'm usually a lot softer and more compassionate. The reason for my somewhat harsh reply was the vibe I got from the OP's post. She later confirmed that it was indeed the wrong choice of words for a husband of 10 years and father of her 3 children. 

I don't think she's wrong to desire a more confident, more capable and more competitive husband, but I have a hard time believing she played no part in the decline of her husband's self-confidence. They've been together for 15 years. That means, they are now purely a product of their marriage (unless they spent a lot of time apart which doesn't seem to be true).

In any case, the husband needs a massive wake up call and in the process this marriage may end up breaking. 

Just a small thing I want to bring up to the OP's attention:

The "poking" you speak of has roots in your husband's resentments and insecurities. It's his defense mechanism against possible attacks on his personality. It's his way of avenging some sort of a humiliation he might have suffered in the past or may still be suffering today. In the 15 years that you've been together, has your husband ever said anything that may lead you to where all this fear stems from? 

I understand you're tired of dealing with him, but believe me, a divorce is no easy route either. If you're still not fully checked out of the marriage, keep trying.


----------



## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Mamatomany,
> 
> You're right I'm usually a lot softer and more compassionate. The reason for my somewhat harsh reply was the vibe I got from the OP's post. *She later confirmed that it was indeed the wrong choice of words for a husband of 10 years and father of her 3 children. *
> 
> ...


I saw her better explanation/details later too. 
Synthetic is right on several things and because they become so routine for us we don't think much about them. Like a little nagging/poking etc. 

I had several epiphanies when our fight started 10 wks ago, they came rather quickly in about 3 days one right after another.

1) Sometimes when we complain say about work (just what we think of as venting) they take it like they are to blame because they can't provide us the ability to stay home and it hurts their self-esteem etc. 

2) I was not only growing hypercritical of myself but him too. It truly hurt him. I didn't use to be that way, but I allowed my expectations go rampant w/o keeping in touch w/ reality. 

3)Separation/Divorce is so hard on the family unit. 


Try one day at a time to not point out flaws but what he did well and on his own.


----------



## Heavyhearted (Feb 11, 2012)

I agree with a lot of what synthetic has to say. I also agree with several points that Trying180 made in her posts. Her husband needs to grow a set and take charge of his marriage, pure and simple. My problem with Trying180 is that she comes across to me as sort of a "bully". She seems to be the kind of person that likes to believe that she has no real fault in their marital problems and that all her husband's problems are somehow the result of some childhood trama or his upbringing and she had no part in it. She seems like she is more intent on convincing herself that he is the real problem so if she divorces him she won't feel guilty about it. Maybe if she was less critical of him and spent more time running towards him instead of away from him, he would be inspired to do the same. If she is as "strong" of a woman as she claims this should be no problem for her right? I'm not saying that she should give in to him and his needy ways or tell him all day how great he is, I'm just saying maybe she should make him feel like he has a wife and a best friend in his corner. In my opinion she sounds like she is as hurtful to him as he is to her, just in different ways.


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

Heavyhearted said:


> She seems to be the kind of person that likes to believe that she has no real fault in their marital problems and that all her husband's problems are somehow the result of some childhood trama or his upbringing and she had no part in it.


I take 50/50 responsibility in where my marriage has headed. Have I always been the wife I wanted to be....Hell no. The issues that I am having is that I am willing to admit my faults...at least to my husband (everyone here seems to think I beleive I am the queen, hardly true.) I'm harder on myself than anyone else could ever be. My husband has spent most of his life denying that he is at fault for anything or passing the buck. For the first 10 years of our relationship is apology were like this... "I'm sorry you took what I said wrong". Or I'm sorry you miss understood what I was saying". "I'm sorry you feel like that." Until recently (because we talk A LOT) he didn't even know he was hurting me with his statements. The poking began as cute banter. Then became more hurtful as private things were said in public in front of friends (Something his family does with no mercy). We actually had to create a code word when one or the other was poking to hard or hurtful. 
I don't want divorce...I value our vows. To the core. If he makes a mistake I want him to own up to it...that way the angry wife in me doesn't stumble upon it and flip out. If I screw up...the first thing I do when he comes home is explain the situation and apologize for my mistake...then ask him to help (if needed) to fix it. He is not one to admit that he doesn't know how to do something. (always been this way, I didn't "bully" him into silence.) He pushes on without any knowledge and worse...doesn't seek the knowledge to do it proper. With the internet at our disposal there is no excuse for this. Some of these situations have cost us tens of thousands of dollars. 
So I've decided...to love him for who he is. Not what I thought he was, or, what he wanted me to think he was. What he actually is. The only person who knows him is me. He continues to struggle to with finding his identity. I say his past plays a big part in his issues because unless you have been the oldest boy with a mother suffering from paranoid Schizophrenia and a father who tells you to pray about everything rather than take action, then you can't deny that its had a huge impact on him. Something he has never faced until recently. 
I am the best thing that has happened to him...I've just remembered he is my best thing too. This has been the hardest time in my life...harder than having 3 kids under 5 and losing our everything. You will have to excuse me if I wear my emotions on my sleeve during this situation but I don't apologize for expressing myself completely on a site where I thought I was available to do so. So again please excuse me for speaking my mind freely when I felt attacked in a moment where I could go no lower. 
I know I have said very hurtful things to him in a moment of anger... I feel like cup that has been dripped into for 15 years and is finally over flowing. He is a drip...I am a tsunami. Over time the drip can break levies that cause the same damage as a tsunami. But the tsunami is the one everyone fears.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

T180, I definitely understand what you say and, except for the long "disappearances" pulled by your husband (which is horribly abusive to you and the kids), I could have written your post, too. 

People who have not been in this situation cannot appreciate how hard you have tried and how much you have tried. If you are like me, you've read the books, you've done the counseling, you have tried everything--and when nothing worked, and he remains unwilling to change despite your loving expression of having needs that he-well-needs to meet, well, then the shut down, withdrawal, and anger start to creep in. When you see how his dysfunction is hurting your kids, it gets harder to stay. Being torn between which is worse, living in such dysfunction or separating/divorcing; who wants to live in that state for long? But many of us (male and female) have tried and tried and tried. Yes, I made mistakes--and I corrected them, to the best of my ability. Yes, I made other mistakes, and again I worked to make changes. Pretty soon you realize that no matter what you do and how you approach things, nothing on his side is going to change. 

My ex could never hear an expression of my need as anything but criticism of himself, his ego was so fragile. I cannot change that. I cannot stop having needs (although I tried, trust me!). 

So you are not alone. If your kids are being affected, then you probably know it is time to go. Do you stay out of fear of how he will react? It can get bad, really bad. Be prepared. The guilt is awful. But I *still* don't regret doing it. I think my kids and me are sooooo much better off, and that makes me happy.


----------



## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

sisters359 said:


> T180, I definitely understand what you say and, except for the long "disappearances" pulled by your husband (which is horribly abusive to you and the kids), I could have written your post, too.
> 
> People who have not been in this situation cannot appreciate how hard you have tried and how much you have tried. If you are li*ke me, you've read the books, you've done the counseling, you have tried everything--and when nothing worked, and he remains unwilling to change despite your loving expression of having needs that he-well-needs to meet, well, then the shut down, withdrawal, and anger start to creep in.* When you see how *his dysfunction is hurting your kids, it gets harder to stay. Being torn between which is worse, living in such dysfunction or separating/divorcing; who wants to live in that state for long*? But many of us (male and female) have tried and tried and tried. Yes, I made mistakes--and I corrected them, to the best of my ability. Yes, I made other mistakes, and again I worked to make changes. Pretty soon you realize that no matter what you do and how you approach things, nothing on his side is going to change.
> 
> *My ex could never hear an expression of my need as anything but criticism of himself, his ego was so fragile. I cannot change that. I cannot stop having needs (although I tried, trust me!).*


It's always about him and I can't say ANYTHING w/o him taking it as a criticism or that I am controlling him. What's up w/ that!!???

Those long disappearances ... we are going through now. For the kids sake I say "daddy is a way for work"
But they are cruel it's always on his terms and he says that I am controlling!

He will not tell the kids he wants to leave us. His idea of spending time w/ them is coming over for an hour watching them play/tv and leaving.


----------



## Badsmit (Dec 29, 2011)

I am a man in the same situation and as my mother put it we are unequally yoked. My wife is smart and beautiful but lacks a number of quintessential personality traits to succeed in life. She blames my choices for all of our problems. She joking (poking fun) calls me a looser and takes every chance to try and berate me. I am in my thirties, earn 6 figures since late twenties, and have put together one hell of a career and wonderful children. You are clearly fed up and want someone else (not in terms of an affair). As you stated what attracted you to him is now repulsive because as you grew in life your needs/wants/desires changed (like me). Now you have a mate you bring out the worst in you. It is time for you to decide what do you want and do you love (and except/ value) who he has become. If you do not you run a serious risk of becoming a bitter hateful BiT** toward you husband. Figure out who you are and what you want and take an honest self assessment and decide if he is the one for you and can you (do you want) value and respect him. Or is all lost…. Make sure you feeling toward him are honest and not driven by selfish motives……:scratchhead:


----------



## nomoretogive (Oct 29, 2011)

Trying180 said:


> * So I've decided...to love him for who he is. Not what I thought he was, or, what he wanted me to think he was. What he actually is. *
> 
> I have so much respect for you right now for even being willing to do this, knowing how hard it is to do given what it's like living with men like these. I hope your husband one day realizes how lucky he is that you stayed by his side and were willing to work through things.
> 
> ...


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

nomoretogive said:


> Trying180 said:
> 
> 
> > *
> ...


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> Has he had a thorough physical?
> If all his health checks out there is always sex therapy?
> IC?


Yes 3 years ago when this all started...no problems..including blood work. We have another scheduled.


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Mamatomany,
> The "poking" you speak of has roots in your husband's resentments and insecurities. It's his defense mechanism against possible attacks on his personality. It's his way of avenging some sort of a humiliation he might have suffered in the past or may still be suffering today. In the 15 years that you've been together, has your husband ever said anything that may lead you to where all this fear stems from?


That is what we are working on at the moment....Its very hard to peal away the pride and thick skin he has placed over it as a defense. He did this way before I entered the picture...Something his father does relentlessly to his mother.


----------



## adlock (Feb 3, 2012)

Trying180 said:


> That is what we are working on at the moment....Its very hard to peal away the pride and thick skin he has placed over it as a defense. He did this way before I entered the picture...Something his father does relentlessly to his mother.


I'm curious does he exercise/lift weights? I can tell you that makes a difference in how a man feels. In my younger years I remember being painfully shy around girls. To the point that girls would some times almost have bright neon signs around their neck saying 'hello i'm begging you here' and i still didn't know how to approach them. LoL

In my 20's I tried to transform myself. Hair, wardrobe, working out very seriously. It all made a difference but I think the working out was huge. It gave me purpose and not just in the changes in my body but it gave me a huge boost of confidence and transformed my mentality. I definitely felt like a different man.

What I'm trying to say is, guys are capable of transforming themselves through self help and some outside encouragement.

There are books and websites out there about how to take unmanly guys and make them manly.

If I were you I would do this. Talk about this with him .. in a positive manner. Tell him about what it is that drew you to him in the first place. Surely he had manly qualities that you liked in the first place.

Then talk about how he has veered off the path. Whether its his weight, his style, his demeanor etc. 

The bedroom stuff is different and I'm hardly an authority but I will try and give you my 2 c anyway. With my wife and I (whom if you read my previous posts) we are having different set of difficluties than you but nonetheless what I want to do I think can help you. Set time to explore body and relearn what you both like. * don't put pressure on each other to have it end in sex necessarily. Make each other feel good. 

Tell him this is what you want to see out of him and see how he responds... not with his words but his actions. If his actions do not respond even though he knows how serious it is then you may want to at that point decide if it is worth it being with him.
Ultimately you have to do what you think makes you most happy.

I also think it is more than reasonable since you seem to have reached a pt of desparation.. to set goals. They should motivate him if he cares about you. If he doesn't you have major problems imo.

Final thought, b/c I am a physician by trade.. have you ever taken him in to see if he is diagnosed with depression or anxiety?


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

adlock said:


> I'm curious does he exercise/lift weights? I can tell you that makes a difference in how a man feels. In my younger years I remember being painfully shy around girls. To the point that girls would some times almost have bright neon signs around their neck saying 'hello i'm begging you here' and i still didn't know how to approach them. LoL
> 
> *He has attempted to, it seem that he really would like to. I've signed him up (extended my membership to family for an extra 45 per month at the YMCA) just to have him go 2-3 times and quit. He has good intentions but his follow through is crap...heh. At this point I would say 10 lbs of fat would be real good for him. *
> 
> ...


*We started MC about 3 months ago and fell into that because we had visited a group depression meeting. It was clear that we were not having the same problems as the group was having. So The H and I searched out a counselor that we felt fit his personal needs and our needs. My H went for one session alone, as did I. then we went together. Its nice to talk about things and get validation for our feelings but I don't see my husband opening up. We have had a few break throughs (him telling me stuff that he has lied to me for 15 years about, small things that should never have been kept from before me that would never effect my love for him) Now the lie grows and I wonder what more he didn't share. In other words I hear him talk in MC and I think he's "getting it" then we get home and its the same thing different day. BUT at least he is willing to go with me. *

Thanks for your input Adlock. I love to hear different views... I truly do.


----------



## Trying180 (Feb 13, 2012)

"have you ever taken him in to see if he is diagnosed with depression or anxiety?"

No medical diagnosis...But I'm pretty sure he has both. I'm convinced everyone in the world has a little of both. Its also winter where we live...so all of this could be heightened by SADDs (seasonal depression). How ever the problems are the same for many years and need to be addressed.


----------

