# My husband's frustration over my insecurities from his EA



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

As the title says...

My now H (then fiance) had a short-lived EA a year ago with a girl he met at work. He got into it, confessed when they kissed, had a lot of probs after this where he broke NC, she started chasing him, he didn't know what he wanted and we briefly broke up before getting back together and doing counselling.

We got through things quite well in the end and got married a couple of months ago.

The EA is forgiven and in the past apart from some self-esteem issues on my part, and a little insecurity that pops up now and then. We usually deal with this quite productively but Friday was a bad day and has been playing on my mind.

When he was home from work, he mentioned he had been sent on a job near to where he met the OW. He knows this is a trigger for me. I have asked him to let me know if he gets sent there. He does tell me but always after. This annoys me; it would be easy for him to take 30 seconds to text me but he doesn't bother. I know he could easily manage it. With this it's not so much the texting but the fact he knows it's a big deal to me yet never does it. He claims he just never thinks to most of the time. That hurts.

Anyhow. The argument came after I brought that up. He told me I had to "deal with it". **** happens and we have to get on with it. That I can't have issues with that place and the place she is from forever because that's just ridiculous. That I am worrying about nothing.

The way he explained all this was like I had an irrational fear. It was like he was completely detached from the fact he'd actually done something previously to cause me to feel anxious. He ended up almost making me think I was being stupid like he'd never done anything to cause these feelings. 

I was aghast really. Like rendered speechless. Usually he's really good about it but he laid into me verbally and I didn't really know who I was speaking to. I just clammed up. 

Not the most productive way to handle it I know. I'm just completely upset that he belittled my feelings like that. I'm also REALLY angry that he dare tell me how to feel and to "get over it."

I know I need to discuss it, I'm just not sure what to say. I mean, this is the man who nearly broke up our family when our littlest was a five-month-old baby, because he was confused. To act like *I* am being ridiculous, makes me furious quite frankly...

Any ideas on how to kick start this convo would be appreciated...
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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Maybe... Hoping it won't come to that as he's really been good on the whole.

He's saying now that he did mean it but he has a more straightforward way with words and maybe came across harsh to me. Then he says he can't really remember saying it. 

Thing is he HATES being reminded of what he did. His feelings of shame and embarrassment get channelled into anger at me for getting upset. He isn't like that all the time but it does happen. 

We had angry words last night and things aren't brilliant now :-(
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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Not sure if this is something or nothing...

We talked the other night. He obviously felt bad. He explained why he hadn't mentioned it whilst at work: he'd been working elsewhere that morning and got a call to go to an emergency job, some urgent repairs. So they had to head off to "that" place, busy city centre, not really knowing where they were going or where they could park near to the place. So texting me was the last thing on his mind.

Fair enough? Yes, until I was just emptying out his work pockets and found a sheet outlining the job. It is clear he knew at the start of his day where he was going , where he was parking and so on. His explanation was obviously an elaboration to excuse his ignorance. But it is SCARY because part of the reason his EA was so devastating was the lies and lying by omission. He was and (I thought) is now brutally honest. To a fault. The husband I know would hold his hands up to anything, he's not scared of admitting fault. 

I can only see that he knows he's messed up and hurt me and has twisted the truth to excuse himself a little. Not a major lie but a lie nontheless. And about work where this all kicked off in the first place. It erodes my trust to know he has done this.

I'm disappointed.
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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tobio said:


> he laid into me verbally and I didn't really know who I was speaking to. I just clammed up.


And....he got what he wanted.

Next time, if he raises his voice or gives you verbal garbage, hold up your hand, say "I deserve better than this" and leave the house. Go stay in a hotel. Let him wonder what you're doing. I'll bet next time he won't let his fear about being backed into a corner and sucking at coping skills overrule his concern for what YOU need.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Thing is, he is now afraid of you. You have become his mother. The mother who yells at him when he screws up. Oh joy. So when he SAW where he'd be going, he did what EVERY 8 year old boy does - ask forgiveness rather than permission. Because he was afraid that if he'd asked permission (i.e., told you ahead of time), you'd have 'said no' and he'd look like a fool at work around the 'boys.'

The only way I know to get out of that dynamic is therapy, unfortunately.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

It sounds like he is not quite remorseful about anything....


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

turnera said:


> Thing is, he is now afraid of you. You have become his mother. The mother who yells at him when he screws up. Oh joy. So when he SAW where he'd be going, he did what EVERY 8 year old boy does - ask forgiveness rather than permission. Because he was afraid that if he'd asked permission (i.e., told you ahead of time), you'd have 'said no' and he'd look like a fool at work around the 'boys.'
> 
> The only way I know to get out of that dynamic is therapy, unfortunately.


:iagree:


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes, get into a counseling session or two b/c he needs a reality check. 

He has no right to decide the time table for you to heal--none whatsoever. He has to be an open book for as long as you need that. If he can't handle this for ANY reason, then he really doesn't "get it," and will begin to resent you, and set himself up for poor choices in the future.

Call him on this now. He lied to cover up his inability to face his own shortcomings. So what if he is ashamed--he is the one who hurt you. Your pain and insecurity are natural consequences of his behavior--why does he get to avoid unpleasant feelings? You don't get to, and he should be GLAD to do whatever he can to lighten your load, rather than adding to it by further deceptions.

If he intimidates you into just shutting up, things are not likely to get better and will probably get worse. Don't have kids together until this issue is fully and permanently 
.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

turnera said:


> Thing is, he is now afraid of you. You have become his mother. The mother who yells at him when he screws up. Oh joy. So when he SAW where he'd be going, he did what EVERY 8 year old boy does - ask forgiveness rather than permission. Because he was afraid that if he'd asked permission (i.e., told you ahead of time), you'd have 'said no' and he'd look like a fool at work around the 'boys.'
> 
> The only way I know to get out of that dynamic is therapy, unfortunately.


I know that there will be times he will be sent to work nearby to where he met the OW. It's not a big city at all and it is quite feasible that he could bump into if not her, people who also worked there.

All I've asked for is a heads up if he knows he's headed in that direction. He thinks it's odd because he can't see what difference it makes telling me before he goes or after. To me it's being informed. To be told after leaves me feeling left in the dark. At least if I know then I could have the courtesy of a phone call, or even a photo of where he is (he often takes pictures of a before-and-after at a job.)

I am just really surprised at him bending the truth like that. It is so unlike him.
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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It just shows you how he really thinks - you and he are not partners. He WILL keep things from you because that his how he operates: let you in when there's no chance of you playing mommy on him, shut you out when there is. I hope you address it and soon.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I wouldn't say I play mum to him. We usually work things out well, things have really improved in that way since we did counselling. I was angry but it is very rare I get angry AT him. Usually I work out the core of why I feel like I do then discuss it with him. He is good with this (again - usually) and we sort it out.

He says he just kept putting off telling me because he knew I'd be upset. The awkward thing for me is that I understand, I can feel and see why he did it, I just don't like WHAT he did. I can get with him waiting until he was home to tell me (although I prefer he tell me when he's at work) but his elaborate twisting of his day - which later he couldn't even remember - is NOT okay with me.

He says he thought all this way behind us. I gather by that he means he never wants me to bring up anything related to it ever. I certainly don't want to have deep and meaningful conversations about it every week. But I DO want to feel I can bring up any related issues and we can work through them. I don't feel like I can right now without being made to feel like the bad guy for bringing up past hurt.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lying and hiding things from your spouse is a CHILD's way of dealing with something. Something in his childhood helped him believe that doing so is the best choice. So now he does it with you. THAT is what I meant. You could be 20 years younger than him, you will still play the role that his mom (or dad) played back when he learned to lie. And, once you lie, you have to keep heaping more lies on top of it. Which is what he did. He approaches you in a CHILDLIKE state, wherein he fears your wrath. YOU may think you have the most wonderful way of working things out but, obviously, his subconscious disagrees. Ignore that at your marriage's peril because, I promise, the lies will get more indepth and more threatening to your marriage.



> He says he thought all this way behind us. I gather by that he means he never wants me to bring up anything related to it ever. I certainly don't want to have deep and meaningful conversations about it every week. But I DO want to feel I can bring up any related issues and we can work through them. I don't feel like I can right now without being made to feel like the bad guy for bringing up past hurt.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. He doesn't feel safe. You are the warden of the marriage and his job is to protect himself from your anger, suspicion, and nagging. 

Don't get me wrong. A LOT of men are like this. Probably at least half of the men out there never got past this part of their childhood, and there are a lot of twisted entanglements between men and women, parents, kids, stuff you don't want to waste your time learning about. So, to condense it...you have to find a way to get him to trust you not to beat him over the head and to get him to understand he OWES you total transparency. 

That is why, as I said earlier, therapy is in order. You don't fix these things yourself.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Remorse, transparency and a willingness to talk about the EA and its triggers whenever and however often you want is what is needed here.

He's just trying to rug-sweep, without doing any hard work.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

turnera said:


> Lying and hiding things from your spouse is a CHILD's way of dealing with something. Something in his childhood helped him believe that doing so is the best choice. So now he does it with you. THAT is what I meant. You could be 20 years younger than him, you will still play the role that his mom (or dad) played back when he learned to lie. And, once you lie, you have to keep heaping more lies on top of it. Which is what he did. He approaches you in a CHILDLIKE state, wherein he fears your wrath. YOU may think you have the most wonderful way of working things out but, obviously, his subconscious disagrees. Ignore that at your marriage's peril because, I promise, the lies will get more indepth and more threatening to your marriage.


Right. I see what you mean now. Thing is, although I see the validity of that within this particular situation, I would say 99% of the time he is an honest person. I feel (felt?) confident I could ask him anything and he'd tell me, or he would volunteer any relevant info. Of course I cannot say right now that this will continue as this relatively minor thing has caused me to doubt this.



> This is exactly what I'm talking about. He doesn't feel safe. You are the warden of the marriage and his job is to protect himself from your anger, suspicion, and nagging.


He doesn't feel safe = whenever I have an issue to talk through it reminds him he is not Mr. Perfect Track Record. To be frank that is HIS issue to deal with. I have made sure not to beat him over the head with it. I have explained that any reassurances I ask for are for my peace of mind, NOT me saying, "remember what you did and what a bad person you are??" It's more like, " I feel a bit iffy about this and I need you to just tell me where you're working/a hug/etc to help me feel better." There's never usually any problem with that. And I really don't nag him. But I am not usually afraid to ask for what I need even if I know it does irk him slightly. But again that is on him, not me.



> Don't get me wrong. A LOT of men are like this. Probably at least half of the men out there never got past this part of their childhood, and there are a lot of twisted entanglements between men and women, parents, kids, stuff you don't want to waste your time learning about. So, to condense it...you have to find a way to get him to trust you not to beat him over the head and to get him to understand he OWES you total transparency.
> 
> That is why, as I said earlier, therapy is in order. You don't fix these things yourself.


I have explained it to him like this. Things happen and we deal with them and move forward (he says this too.) However to move forward (this is where he thinks move forward = never talk about it again) does not mean that what happened in the past won't affect someone. It doesn't mean that because I forgave him, that, say, if he goes to work near to where the OW works that I won't feel a small degree of anxiety and concern. That is a consequence of his prior actions and it is up to him to show me that "phase" WAS just a "blip" and show me there is nothing to be anxious about.

However it does help enormously if that effort on his part is delivered cheerfully, ie that he is happy to make such efforts for me. He isn't always delighted about it. There does seem to be a sense of, "oh no, not this AGAIN..."


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tobio said:


> He doesn't feel safe = whenever I have an issue to talk through it reminds him he is not Mr. Perfect Track Record. To be frank that is HIS issue to deal with.


Uh...no.

It is the MARRIAGE's issue to deal with. You are already placing him on the other side of the table.

You're still looking at this as how YOU aren't getting what YOU want. 

If you want your marriage to be strong and not head toward divorce or infidelity, you need to find ways - like reading HNHN - to keep or put both of you on the SAME side of the table. And that requires you to stop thinking about how YOU want things to be done, how YOU want him to act, and figure out what AGREEMENT is best for BOTH of you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why are you not willing to consider that he does not feel safe when it comes to you (the woman) deeming him insufficient? That is usually one of a man's #1 Love Busters - not admiring him and one of a man's #1 Emotional Needs - Admiration. When you tell him you don't like what he did, he RUNS to that little boy feeling of I'm not good enough. You can coat in chocolate ice cream and he'll still feel hurt. 

What you really need is to educate yourself on how to negotiate in a marriage and how to meet ENs and how to not LB - in the book HNHN. For starters, read this:
Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

turnera said:


> Uh...no.
> 
> It is the MARRIAGE's issue to deal with. You are already placing him on the other side of the table.
> 
> ...


I agree and disagree. It IS the marriage's issue. I agree it isn't me vs. him. 

However I see it as we also both have a part to play in it, individually but working together towards the common goal. I have my individual "responsibilities" if you like. For example, we established in counselling I needed to improve my communication skills, in particular not saying thing were "okay" when they weren't so he could know when I was having difficulty dealing with things and help. One for him was to communicate to me where he was working each day.

Together the goal is to maintain a happy marriage where we have reestablished a mutual respect and working degree of trust. I know that working towards this there are things we have worked out are important. 

I honestly don't think I am being unreasonable to say to him that I really appreciate it if he would tell me where he is working. We have been through why. Before counselling. In counselling. After counselling. And yet this little thing which would quite literally take 10 seconds in a text or a phone call, he resists and wriggles about. I understand he doesn't like feeling like he is being kept tabs on. If I asked him, he would say I should just trust him. That would be what he would want me to agree to. He is NEVER going to "agree" to doing this. He will never ever do it cheerfully. We will never agree on it. What do we do? It's just not going to happen nicely.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

turnera said:


> Why are you not willing to consider that he does not feel safe when it comes to you (the woman) deeming him insufficient? That is usually one of a man's #1 Love Busters - not admiring him and one of a man's #1 Emotional Needs - Admiration. When you tell him you don't like what he did, he RUNS to that little boy feeling of I'm not good enough. You can coat in chocolate ice cream and he'll still feel hurt.
> 
> What you really need is to educate yourself on how to negotiate in a marriage and how to meet ENs and how to not LB - in the book HNHN. For starters, read this:
> Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation


I know he doesn't feel safe about it. Of course I don't like what he did. I don't say that. He says he doesn't feel good enough. He says I am way too good for him. He is wrapped up in a bundle of guilt. I admire him in other ways. I tell him I admire him in those ways.

Like I say, I don't bring it up or beat him with what he did. I just don't. I look forward. Thing is, it is implicit TO HIM whenever I ask for a bit of reassurance that I need it because of his **** up and that he failed and that he hurt me. I maintain that the only way he would agree was the best way forward is to never talk about it again.

I will check out that link, thanks.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I still think you need a couples counselor to help you find effective, proven ways to get around his guilt/shame/lies to protect himself. It won't go away. You can find ways to deal with him, like the link, but he will STILL have that inside him. Until you can get HIM to see that you want to be on HIS side, he will probably only get worse as the marriage goes on.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tobio said:


> I agree and disagree. It IS the marriage's issue. I agree it isn't me vs. him.
> 
> However I see it as we also both have a part to play in it, individually but working together towards the common goal. I have my individual "responsibilities" if you like.


I liken it to marrying a person and then finding out they have MS. You realize your marriage will never be the same. But you're not going to abandon them, are you? So you deal with it (his lying to protect himself) like any other disease, research it, find solutions for it, and work WITH him to control it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

One low-key thing I really like, ok, two, is to have a one-hour discussion, once a week. Every week. For the rest of your lives. You sit down and talk about your relationship. In that hour, you VOW to NOT get confrontational, to give each other respect, and to not talk back or talk over to have your point heard. You'll get your chance. You can either talk back and forth, or you can each have 30 minutes. Then the rest of the week you can relax, there's no elephant in the room, because you know you'll get to talk about it Sunday night (whenever).

The other idea is the talking stick, if you have trouble not butting in when the other talks. Whoever holds the stick (carrot, slipper, curling iron, feather, whatever) gets to talk until done, and then hands it over to the other. 

After the hour, you two may want to go off alone and think about what's been said, so you don't escalate anything, to cool down. You will feel 'sore' when hearing what you do that Love Busts your partner. But you have the rest of the week to think about it, and come up with solutions (or to stop LBing them); if you need to, you can bring it up again at next week's hour.

It's a slow, SAFE, methodical way to get at your issues and not take your marriage for granted.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm sorry you are in pain.
Your H is not being honest (you said you saw the work sheet and he knew at the start of the day where he was going)
He does not want to be accountable (He says he forgets to text, he's busy. You say he won't be accountable for his locations because ....)
And when he's cornered he tells you to get over it already.
From this bit it sadly sounds like he is not remorseful, and acts as though the hard work for a meaningful R it too hard. You have every right not to receive anger/resentment/frustration from him to obtain the transparency he owes.
I'm sorry for your pain.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pluto has a good point. It's important to remember that he IS capable of cheating, so it's possible that he simply is one of those men who believe it's ok to cheat on your wife - it's only sex, after all, right? I know a LOT of men like this; my husband works with tons of men and he tells me everything - all the side visits to brothels, all the picking up girls at hotels when traveling, the mistresses, the strip clubs...many men simply believe that, since they want sex so much more than their wives (in their minds), they're doing the right thing by getting it on the side and not owning up. 

I don't know if he's like that, only he knows. But it's possible he just gives you crocodile tears to tell you what you want to hear, and you happened to catch him.


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