# Update + What to do now?



## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Quick recap:

4 months ago I recieved the "I'm not happy" speech and things got really rocky. I neglected to respond to some concerns she had over the last few years and it resulted in alot of resentment. The two of us differ in our opinion of the severity and the depth of those problems but if her perception is her reality, then I don't have much choice but to accept her feelings on it.

No infidelity, no abuse either verbal or physical.

At first I was unsure if a third party was involved since this seemed sudden so I did my due dilligence in every way possibly over a 2 month period and there is nothing. I have since stopped the snooping as it was driving me crazy anyways.

So here we are 4 months later......

I have addresses the immediate concerns for which she attributed her feelings (or lack there of) and I did that immediatley and have not wavered. I also hit the self help circuit and the gym and am both physically and mentally far better than when this began. We have been going to MC and spent the first couple of visits ironing out some of the kinks and I feel we are basically at a baseline to re-build.

Essentially the MC has said that my lack of responsiveness over the last few years was basically me pulling away from the relationship which caused her to do the same as a defense mechinism. Now that I'm back, it will take time for her to do the same. My wifes lack of affection towards me is a result of this (according to MC). We still have sex regularly but apparently my wifes willingness to do so is based on the fact she doesn't want to lose me and knows that I will not tolerate a sexless marriage. To hear the wife and MC put it that way makes me feel I am as if I am somehow blackmailing her but she has always been a willing participant and her enjoyment at the time is obvious. I don't know if she really feels that way or just following MC's lead.

So, my question in counseling yesterday was what do I do now? I have fixed myself and will continue to do so but I don't see any changes in my wifes feelings towards me. MC say it really is just going to be a matter of time. Is she right? 

My wife has said she loves me, likes me, wants the marriage to work. No ILYBNILWY (when the MC was probing her about her love for me yesterday I was worried that might come out but did not.)

So I am not supposed to push the affection issue and just continue being the best husband I can be and eventually thos "loving" feelings should return for her. I have been proactively trying to do things to fix the marriage for so long that it feels wrong to simply follow that advice. What do you guys think?


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## Eternal Embrace (Apr 26, 2012)

You say that the two of you were having problems for a few years...

You also say that in the last four months since she gave you her speech that you have been proactively trying to remedy the situation - this is a great thing but you have to relaize that damage done over the span of years should not be expected to be healed in the span of four short months. You have to give her time to heal and come back around.

You give me the impression that you are now giving this relationship 110% - do you feel that your wife is doing the same? If not, maybe bring that up in your next MC session.

Other than that - keep doing what you're doing - giving the 110% and if your wife is as dedicated as you are to your relationship then she will come back around - just give her time and try not to make her feel pressured.

Good luck to both of you!


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Paulination said:


> Quick recap:
> 
> 4 months ago I recieved the "I'm not happy" speech and things got really rocky. I neglected to respond to some concerns she had over the last few years and it resulted in alot of resentment. The two of us differ in our opinion of the severity and the depth of those problems but if her perception is her reality, then I don't have much choice but to accept her feelings on it.
> 
> ...


Have you tried dating your wife? Get a sitter (if you need one), make the arrangements and go out with her, at least once a month but once a week is best. Buy presents regularly.

I don't like MCs much at all and I especially don't like the ones who dwell on what has happened in the past and how we got to where we are.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

It takes two to work things out.
Maybe you're both trying too hard but some things should happen naturally. 
Could she be falling out of love with you?


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Eternal Embrace said:


> but you have to relaize that damage done over the span of years should not be expected to be healed in the span of four short months. You have to give her time to heal and come back around.


My wife and the MC are saying the same thing but it would be nice to just see just a little bit of progress.

Basically my wife is affectionless with me. No kissing, no I love you's (unless I say it first) and just in general seems uninterested in me physically unless it is sex. Just a peck on the cheek when I get home from work would mean the world to me but nothing.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> It takes two to work things out.
> Maybe you're both trying to hard but some things happen naturally.
> Could she be falling out of love with you?


Not if she's being honest with me and the MC. That has been addressed a few times and she insists that she does love me. The disconnection we have suffered has dampened her affectionate feelings for me (allegedly).


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Paul, do you show attention and affection to your wife that is not a prelude to sex? Can you kiss your wife without it leading to sex? Can you hug her and caress her face without it leading to sex? I ask because sadly many good men do that and it makes their wives lose love for them and ultimately the desire to be intimate with them. Sex without an emotional connection with your wife or life partner is, for lack of a better word, bland, tasteless.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Eternal Embrace said:


> You say that the two of you were having problems for a few years...
> 
> You also say that in the last four months since she gave you her speech that you have been proactively trying to remedy the situation - this is a great thing but you have to relaize that damage done over the span of years should not be expected to be healed in the span of four short months. You have to give her time to heal and come back around.


:iagree:


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Paul,

You have to figure out what gets your wife's brain thinking about you.

Actions do speak louder than words.

I can tell you that my wife is a big prude. Especially in front of the of our 3 girls. That has never stopped me from trying though!!!

If she is in front of me going up the stairs I am going to pat her butt.

If she is in the kitchen morning or night I will always come up behind her and go for the hug and end with a kiss. Kids or no kids!

She knows I am not looking to jump her bones but it certainly has her thinking of me.

And when we go to sleep at night if her back is to me no matter how tired I rub her back or give her a good light scratch. She loves it!!

And last but not least, if she is facing me I lightly grab her hand and hold it until we fall asleep.

Keep looking for those connections with her. It is actions much more than words.

You will figure it out.....

HM64


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Have you gotten to the root of her resentment? Has she let the bad feelings go? You will not make progress if she is still punishing you for something in the past.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

maybe get her to watch that Lifetime show where couples agreed to have sex 7 days in a row to see how it affected their relationship?

The best way to overcome resentment is start again and rebond and build something new- real change is evident over time

spend 10-15 of alone time a week


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

4 months does not erase several years of resentment. It's going to take longer for her to let go, it sounds like she's only really starting and she still doesn't trust the new you.

What to do?

Wait her out. Keep up the new you.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Paulination said:


> MC say it really is just going to be a matter of time. Is she right?


I'm going to say based on personal experience unless your wife chooses to put forth an effort....no.

Relationships simply do not work that way. Sitting around and waiting for some 'feeling' to come back is an exercise in insanity. If you love your spouse and are committed to making it work you LOVE them as in a verb. Does it mean your wife feels loving while she does it? No it means she puts forth an effort anyway. She matches your changes and meets you halfway. And I blame her for waiting years and not saying anything so she's playing the victim card by pinning all this on you. She is just as much to blame for the marital problems and should take ownership of that.

Now I'm going to duck before I get slammed by TAM. LOL


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

> Relationships simply do not work that way. Sitting around and waiting for some 'feeling' to come back is an exercise in insanity. If you love your spouse and are committed to making it work you LOVE them as in a verb. Does it mean your wife feels loving while she does it? No it means she puts forth an effort anyway. She matches your changes and meets you halfway.


In my experience I totally agree. I'm not a huge believer in things magically changing.

In the end though, it hardly matters whether the wife is being fair or not. Whether or not she knows it, there is a clock ticking. I see these sorts of situations as a footrace and we're waiting to find out if she finds her love again before he runs out of energy.

Love is a verb to me too. Failing action, it's simply just another pretty word.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

What was her story about the hidden $12,000.?


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> maybe get her to watch that Lifetime show where couples agreed to have sex 7 days in a row to see how it affected their relationship?
> 
> The best way to overcome resentment is start again and rebond and build something new- real change is evident over time
> 
> spend 10-15 of alone time a week


Now you're talking. If your wife is anything like mine, thinking about having to spend 10 to 15 hours a week alone with her husband will make a few kisses and ilu's every day look a lot more attractive

And the Lifetime show? what a suggestion. I see kisses like rain at the thought of it


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> What was her story about the hidden $12,000.?


I haven't addressed that yet.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Relationships simply do not work that way. Sitting around and waiting for some 'feeling' to come back is an exercise in insanity. If you love your spouse and are committed to making it work you LOVE them as in a verb. Does it mean your wife feels loving while she does it? No it means she puts forth an effort anyway. She matches your changes and meets you halfway. And I blame her for waiting years and not saying anything so she's playing the victim card by pinning all this on you. She is just as much to blame for the marital problems and should take ownership of that.


First, thank you everyone for your input. This here is how I tend to feel about it. Instead of waiting for the feelings to take some action, start with the action and hopefully the feelings follow. Just doing nothing while I make all the effort doesn't make much sense. The MC doesn't agree with me. The MC is very sympathetic to my wife which of course, she loves.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> I'm going to say based on personal experience unless your wife chooses to put forth an effort....no.
> 
> Relationships simply do not work that way. Sitting around and waiting for some 'feeling' to come back is an exercise in insanity. If you love your spouse and are committed to making it work you LOVE them as in a verb. Does it mean your wife feels loving while she does it? No it means she puts forth an effort anyway. She matches your changes and meets you halfway. And I blame her for waiting years and not saying anything so she's playing the victim card by pinning all this on you. She is just as much to blame for the marital problems and should take ownership of that.
> 
> Now I'm going to duck before I get slammed by TAM. LOL


I completely agree with this. Resentment will block love. You cannot make her let go of the resentment no matter what you do or how much you change. She has to actively seek a way to let the resentment go. If she doesn't she will not recover her feelings for you. And from what I've seen the longer the resentment lingers the harder it is to lose.


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

How long do you think you'd be willing to remain at the status quo? Your MC and/or wife believes you're not willing to live in a sexless marriage. You shouldn't have to live indefinitely in a loveless marriage, either.

Perhaps it would be best to set a firm timeframe for yourself, maybe even an exact date. Keep working on things, but tell yourself "If I don't see change in X amount of time, I need to start moving on."

Edit: We haven't really heard what it was that has caused her to pull her away. All we hear is what it's not. It's not infidelity, it's not abuse. 

What has caused her resentments, specifically? If you're able to articulate exactly what these are, maybe we'll have a better idea of what's going on.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Paulination said:


> My wife and the MC are saying the same thing but it would be nice to just see just a little bit of progress.
> 
> Basically my wife is affectionless with me. No kissing, no I love you's (unless I say it first) and just in general seems uninterested in me physically unless it is sex. Just a peck on the cheek when I get home from work would mean the world to me but nothing.


Sounds like your wife is persecuting you for “past offences”. It’s like you did the crime, but you’ll never ever do the time. At least not to her satisfaction. And so she’ll forever punish you by withholding her love and affection. That’s persecution.

She may well feel love and affection for you, she may well be in love with you. But that love is somewhat useless to you if you don’t actually feel her love. Love truly is a feeling AND a verb. It’s what we do for them that actually makes others feel loved by us. So your wife, if she does love you, is deliberately and in premeditated ways punishing you by withholding her love from you.

I think these things are a curse in a marriage. I really do. Your wife is resentful. In some ways she actually dislikes you and holds anger against you. Her enactment of her anger and dislike is to withhold her love from you such that you are hurt and therefore punished.

But her punishment will last forever until you put an end to it. And that will come down to how much patience and tolerance you have and for how long you’re prepared to be punished!

Maybe just tell her her game is up. That you know she’s punishing you by withholding her love from you and she’s to put an end to it right now.



It’s usually a real wake-up call, a real epiphany moment when you suddenly become aware that your wife is consciously and deliberately punishing you such that you feel pain. It’s premeditated in that they actually sit down by themselves and think “How can I hurt him such that he feels pain” and then she carries out her plan.

And she succeeds!!!


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

:banghead:

Damn, guys. What is with all of you? Women are hard-wired to fall out of love with their husbands. They almost ALL do it. And we're it treating like it is something new. 

Paulie. Don't start another thread on this. Just go to that sticky at the top of the "general" forum titled: "So, your wife fell out of love with you? POST HERE"

What? They took that one down? Hmmm. I wonder why. Just about every thread on here deals with exactly that issue. Are you saying I'm the only one that's connected the dots?

And think about this: How many relationships break up and the two end up getting back together? Not many. A breakup is a breakup. IF they get back together, it's because they separated and "absence made the heart grow fonder". If they end up being stuck together, the resentment grows and festers.

She's gone. 180, man up and all that. She's not coming back. You can turn yourself int George Clooney and she will always have the fear that you're going to revert back to the same old Paulie again. 

And lastly, I'll presume you're human. You WILL make mistakes. ONE SLIP that allows her to fear the return of the old you and it's back to square 1.

Damn, everybody.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Sorry. One last thought. I am TIRED of taking the blame for the problems in my marriage. Sure, I was a problem. But she chose to detach and remove herself from the marriage instead of helping me. Instead of helping US. Screw her.

And PLEASE! If there are any pre-marriage counselors out there. PLEASE start to address this issue. If we could have just swapped out a LITTLE bit of the group hugs and "be each others best friends" bull**** for a little reality in mine, I think quite a few people would be better off now. Maybe even me.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Next time you’re with your wife and the MC just say something to your wife like ….

“I’m out of this process until you have got over your resentment of me. I love you but I will not live with a woman who holds anger against me, who dislikes me and persecutes me by punishing me for things from the past. You are to work with your MC on ways of overcoming your resentment of me. And to that end I will help you both in any way I can. But the objective will always be “no more resentment”. Once your resentment is overcome then we can really get together and make our marriage a better place for both of us”.

I would leave a note as above so they can review it together and then I’d tell my wife I’ll be outside waiting for her for when the meeting’s finished, get up and walk out.

You need to absolutely confront her resentment as believe me you haven’t a chance with a resentful woman.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Next time you’re with your wife and the MC just say something to your wife like ….
> 
> “I’m out of this process until you have got over your resentment of me. I love you but I will not live with a woman who holds anger against me, who dislikes me and persecutes me by punishing me for things from the past. You are to work with your MC on ways of overcoming your resentment of me. And to that end I will help you both in any way I can. But the objective will always be “no more resentment”. Once your resentment is overcome then we can really get together and make our marriage a better place for both of us”.
> 
> ...


Then go fishing. Tell her to call you when she's ready to start working. If she doesn't call, go bowling.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

No, this will not work.
You have to be the chased, not the chaser.
Your wife has to earn the place back in her marriage that she managed to almost throw away. You two have to spend time together doing fun things.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

MrK said:


> Women are hard-wired to fall out of love with their husbands. They almost ALL do it. And we're it treating like it is something new.


Not true, any more than almost all men are hard-wired to cheat. He may be able to re-connect with his wife if he gets to the bottom of her resentment, and they both discover and meet each other's needs. The marriage may be over, but at least give the OP ideas about what he can do. Generalizations about women do not help his situation.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> Not true, any more than almost all men are hard-wired to cheat. He may be able to re-connect with his wife if he gets to the bottom of her resentment, and they both discover and meet each other's needs. The marriage may be over, but at least give the OP ideas about what he can do. Generalizations about women do not help his situation.


OK. The "hard-wired" comment may have been over the top. But before they married, how many wives knew they had an excellent chance of falling out of love with their husbands after 3-10 years? Not many. And how many women DO fall back in love with their husbands after leaving the marriage? Again, not many. And how many men lived for YEARS not knowing their wives had walked away years prior and were SHOCKED to find out there wife had been gone a long time already? Quite a few. I've read their stories. I lived mine.

So if history is a guide, he'll get a lot of "hang in there, you can do it" advice when advice like mine is needed just as much. If not more.

The advice I'm giving would have helped me 2 years ago. Shame nobody told me about this back then. I had to do all of the research myself and connect the dots myself. And after 2 years of trying, I finally realized that just about NOBODY comes back and says "Thanks! You were all right. I hung in there and we are better than before". A lot of "My wife hates me", or "My wife gave the ILYBINILWYAM". Not many "look how we overcame this and saved out marriage.


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## happymrs (May 1, 2012)

MrK said:


> Not many "look how we overcame this and saved our marriage.


Then may I respond as one who can say this. 

I have to ask the question- if these are issues that have been festering for years, then could it take more than four months to see some change? It's taking my husband and I more than four months to fix years of problems. We did hang in there, and we are enjoying the results. Perhaps we are the exception, but in looking back, it was worth the time and the effort. 

We are the success story, even if we might be the exception. If we had given up too soon, what we would be missing out on now. Blissful is the word that comes to mind.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

happymrs said:


> It's taking *my husband and I* more than four months to fix years of problems. *We* did hang in there, and we are enjoying the results. Perhaps *we* are the exception, but in looking back, it was worth the time and the effort.


I agree but the operative words in this are bolded. You both put forth efforts. In this case it appears as if the OP is the only one trying. Again though I don't know what 'resentments' she refers to. I mean if he cheated then okay he will have to make amends and it will take a lot longer than 4 months but it's hard to say when none of us here know exactly what she's holding against him.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hicks said:


> No, this will not work.
> You have to be the chased, not the chaser.
> *Your wife has to earn the place back in her marriage that she managed to almost throw away. * You two have to spend time together doing fun things.


Yes. It’s a totally different perspective, but the right one. His wife needs to learn new and healthier ways to process her pain and the anger that results from it.

At the moment she’s using her pain and anger built up over years to punish her husband by withholding her love. And by doing that she’s slowly but surely destroying their marriage. How crazy is that? It’s like a very angry person smashing through the skin of an aircraft and bringing it crashing down from over 30,000ft. It’s an absolute and total madness.

It’s his wife who is destroying their marriage. Eventually she’ll cause him enough pain that he too will get seriously angry and withhold his love from his wife. When they both stop working at it, down will come baby’s cradle and all.



I don’t agree with the fun things though. That’s rewarding very bad behaviour, like giving her a chocolate every time she withholds her love. Even Sheldon knows better than that!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Paulination said:


> First, thank you everyone for your input. This here is how I tend to feel about it. Instead of waiting for the feelings to take some action, start with the action and hopefully the feelings follow. Just doing nothing while I make all the effort doesn't make much sense. The MC doesn't agree with me. The MC is very sympathetic to my wife which of course, she loves.


Your MC sounds like a Toxic Friend and as such she'll make matters a whole lot worse.

If your MC hasn't mentioned resentment and hasn't given you both exercises and guidance to overcome it she's a total waste of space, time, money and effort. I would not give her a second chance.

You need to find an MC who knows the toxic nature of resentment and how to overcome it.


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## happymrs (May 1, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> You both put forth efforts. In this case it appears as if the OP is the only one trying.


One of us stepped up first, having to prove that the changes were indeed genuine and sincere. The other followed after a time and the work has been mutual since. 

Also, called me a girl who sees the glass half full, but I tend to see the communication four months ago, and going to MC as an indication that she is trying. If her words are to be taken at face value she cares, doesn't want to lose him and wants a healing in the relationship but their timetables are not syncronizing.


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