# Sex isn't important to her but it is to me



## charliechalk (Sep 14, 2017)

Hi Everyone,

I signed up because I’m starting to feel at a loss as to what to do about my sex life between myself and my wife. We have been married for almost 10 years but together for almost 20. When we met we had great sex, often. It remained good throughout our early years of marriage and then we had two children, now 7 & 3. Naturally things have gradually slipped but they’ve become much worse than I can bear and I recently had to bring up the subject saying the lack of sex was an issue for me. It ended in an argument but we eventually agreed that we had differing sex drives, she said she still found me attractive and loved it when we do have sex but that she just didn’t want it as frequently. I was ok with this because I didn’t feel like it was an issue with me. I, like most men, could have sex every day. However, I understand that women are different and my wife said that she would make more of an effort with us and would look after me a little more. All fine, or so I thought...

When we had our discussion / argument I made a promise to myself that I wouldn’t pressure her for sex, I wouldn’t touch her boobs, bum or bits but would reciprocate any intimate touching if she made the first move. That seemed to work well for a few days after the discussion and we had some intimacy but now it’s back to where we were and today I feel it’s particularly bad.

We had been discussing for weeks that we would have a ‘breakfast date’ this morning because both kids were at school and we were both off. We would head out for breakfast and then back to ours for some lovin’. However, on the way back from breakfast I mentioned that we should do some decorating in our house at some point, just a lick of paint. My wife then got really excited and said we should go to the DIY store, I asked her if she was absolutely sure and she said yes. We picked the paint and started to head home, I contained my excitement thinking we were finally going to do it when we got back but I was also now conscious of the time before we had to pick our youngest up from school in 30 mins. When we walked through the front door she then started doing jobs around the house - stuff that could’ve waited...and then said after that she had to go and pick our kid up.

So now I’m typing this, feeling very frustrated, angry and stupid. I feel like she’s just messing with me because she knows I want sex often and so she controls when we do it and if she’s not totally in the mood then we don’t do anything. I’m honestly getting to the point where I feel that if things don’t improve it’s going to cause a serious enough issue for me to consider looking elsewhere for it. I love her and I really don’t want this to be an issue but unfortunately it is. 

Can anyone help?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Sounds pretty familiar. I've often claimed here, to the astonishment of many, that the best way for me to insure that sex will not happen on a given day is to take her out on a date. 

I don't know what to advise you. Maybe have sex before going out. Some have advised me to do that as it works for them. In the past we had sex dates where we didn't leave home. That doesn't currently work.


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

This is pretty much exactly what I've gone through only I'm 25 years married. I can only tell you that things most likely won't change. At least they haven't for me and I've tried numerous things. The resentment will build up. If you stop initiating to give her space you won't get any but maybe once per month. She'll initiate eventually to keep you around but that's it. When you do have sex she may even say "That was great. We have to do this more often!"? Then you'll initiate and get rejected repeatedly and the cycle will continue. There's not much hope for change in my experience.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

One thing stood out, you won't grab her boobs and butt and bits anymore. Is this how you were initiating sex before? Not likely much of a turn on for her if it was. 

How often do you go on dates and have alone time? Once every few weeks isn't enough.


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## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

Your wife sounds exactly like me. I didnt realize how important sex was to husbands before I got on this forum. 

I can give you some insight from my experience....

After you have kids a wife starts to feel like she is "doing " for others all the time. Everybody wants a piece of her, when the kids are finally in bed or out and the chores are done she just wants to be able to do whatever -for herself. As hurtful as this may seem sometimes sex is seen as just one more chore or something else that must be "done" for someone else. MC told me at this point women dont have much drive unless the house is clean, the kids are at a sitters, they've had their nails and feet done and are wearing something that makes them feel attractive. Even then it can take awhile to get into it but once they get going they feel pleasure.
If you can afford one get a cleaning lady even 2x a month makes a difference.

There are hormonal changes that can make sex uncomfortable. Lube or estrogen cream is your friend. 

Changes along with the pressures of mid life-children, finances, work, parents, weight gain.... all can make wives tired and somewhat depressed. They can literally feel like they could never have sex again for the rest of their life and that would be fine. That was where I was at.

H stopped trying to have sex with me. At first it was a relief but then I got to thinking maybe he was turning towards someone else to have his needs met....I went to IC and she suggested I watch the TED video "mating in captivity". I did and it helped me see things from a new perspective.

What worked for me at this time was to go on Wellbutrin. It increases dopamine- which allows you to feel pleasure and acts a bit like a female viagra. It is an antidepressant and is not prescribed for this but since depression is often a contributing factor to low libido it kills 2 birds with one stone. It gave me enough motivation to step up my game. Lose some weight, change my hair, buy some clothes get my nails done. That helps you feel desire again. After doing this I felt comfortable with my body again. It is not perfect, it is not at its ideal weight, I do yoga but I dont hit the gym....Ive had 3 kids and not everything is where it should be anymore but...I am at peace with my self. I can walk around naked and not feel self conscious. 

Try to get your wife comfortable with her body. Go naked- skinny dip, go in a hot tub naked, walk around the yard or house naked, go on a vacation where there is a nude beach . (He once said he'd pay for a tummy tightening procedure to fix the little paunch from my hystorectomy - I laughed and said I'm fine with it- and I am- just as I am fine with his faults). Confidence in your body is sexy no matter what it looks like.

Sleep naked and spoon. I cant stress this enough. If she goes on wellbutrin and can feel pleasure again this is the most bonding experience. When we first started doing this we found such great comfort in it that we would be out for dinner and couldnt wait to get home to get naked and sleep together. NOT always leading to sex. Sometimes he gives me a back scratch with no expectations. That makes me feel cared for. 

Important to meet her needs as much as you can -not just when you want sex. read his needs her needs and get to know each other again.

Currently H and I have as much sex now as we did before kids. We have fun and are flirty with each other. I bought some bendable skeletons and regularly put them in various sex positions for him to find around the house. He doesnt think I'm near as hilarious as I do. LOL 

Coles notes version
1.read his needs her needs together
2.get a cleaning lady as often as you can afford
3. have her watch the TED lecture "mating in captivity"
4. Have her ask her dr if She can try Wellbutrin
5. encourage her to feel better about herself- hair done, nails done, a few new clothes, eat healthy, yoga/excercise
6. sleep naked and spoon
7. find other times to be playfully naked- swimming , hot tub, in the yard at night
8.Appreciate her body in a non sexual way- massage, back scratch, without expectations
9. go to MC to discuss ways to improve the marriage that dont have to do with sex.

Hope this helps


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

you have two choices:
1) Tell her - this is unrealistic and unacceptable for me to remain in this relationship. I want sex. You do not. All that will come from this is, is resentment and hatred, if we continue down this path.. We need to split or this gets fixed immediately.
2) You shut your mouth. Start the 180. Separate your emotions from her and find other things to do (NOT CHEAT!). You can coexist and be relatively happy without intimacy if you put your mind to it.

I'm not even going to dignify recommending you open up the marriage or ask her for hall passes.


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## charliechalk (Sep 14, 2017)

Hi Everyone and thanks for the replies, it's really appreciated. It's somewhat comforting to know that I'm not alone with this problem but I must admit I feel concerned hearing from those that have said things don't tend to get better. I'll try to reply inline to the comments.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> One thing stood out, you won't grab her boobs and butt and bits anymore. Is this how you were initiating sex before? Not likely much of a turn on for her if it was.
> 
> How often do you go on dates and have alone time? Once every few weeks isn't enough.


I wouldn't necessarily initiate sex that way, more if she walked past I'd give her a gentle tap on the butt or something - not a hard grope or anything! I find her attractive so I want to touch her! We are alone every night when the kids go to bed and probably go out together once a month. If it was up to her we would go far less.



NJ2 said:


> Your wife sounds exactly like me. I didnt realize how important sex was to husbands before I got on this forum.
> 
> I can give you some insight from my experience....
> 
> ...


Wow thanks for this response and a lot of what you've said I've read about or done. My difficulty with all that you have suggested is I do loads for her, I cook, I clean, I look after the boys, I make time, I tell her she's gorgeous, I run baths, I give her massages, I do all of the things you mentioned. What I resent is that I do all of those things and still it doesn't improve our situation. I completely understand that a women is different but I get nothing back. Sorry to sound crude here, but she gave me a handjob about 2 weeks ago and it may as well have been done by a robot - nothing sensual in the slightest.

If I told her to seek medication then I think she'd tell me to go jump, she wouldn't see it as her issue that she doesn't want sex more often.



Mr. Nail said:


> Sounds pretty familiar. I've often claimed here, to the astonishment of many, that the best way for me to insure that sex will not happen on a given day is to take her out on a date.
> 
> I don't know what to advise you. Maybe have sex before going out. Some have advised me to do that as it works for them. In the past we had sex dates where we didn't leave home. That doesn't currently work.


Thanks and sorry to hear you're having the same problem, I can certainly relate!



Spitfire said:


> This is pretty much exactly what I've gone through only I'm 25 years married. I can only tell you that things most likely won't change. At least they haven't for me and I've tried numerous things. The resentment will build up. If you stop initiating to give her space you won't get any but maybe once per month. She'll initiate eventually to keep you around but that's it. When you do have sex she may even say "That was great. We have to do this more often!"? Then you'll initiate and get rejected repeatedly and the cycle will continue. There's not much hope for change in my experience.


Sounds awful and I feel for you. Do you plan to do anything in the long run i.e. leave her? My wife does a similar thing, she'll get slightly concerned and make an effort and things will improve then as quickly as it came, it goes.



snerg said:


> you have two choices:
> 1) Tell her - this is unrealistic and unacceptable for me to remain in this relationship. I want sex. You do not. All that will come from this is, is resentment and hatred, if we continue down this path.. We need to split or this gets fixed immediately.
> 2) You shut your mouth. Start the 180. Separate your emotions from her and find other things to do (NOT CHEAT!). You can coexist and be relatively happy without intimacy if you put your mind to it.
> 
> I'm not even going to dignify recommending you open up the marriage or ask her for hall passes.


Thanks, as brutal as it sounds number 1 is probably the answer...I think deep down she is never going to change and that makes me so very sad.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

No, it will likely never change to full satisfaction. IMO, your best case is a slight improvement that might hold you for some more years. You may also get bouts of good sex if she feels you're serious about leaving over it that will fade again to where you are once she's comfortable again. 

There is likely some little changes and tweaks that can be made for improvement. Insisting on once a week date nights and 15 hours a week alone (no kids, no electronics) time, no grabbing at her bits (most women I talk to hate this with a passion) doing more daylong foreplay and not just right before sex. 

But the main point will always be- is the effort worth the small improvement for you?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

charliechalk said:


> Can anyone help?


 @charliechalk it sounds as if you and your wife can talk openly and realistically about sex in your marriage. This is a huge plus, as it will be challenging to work through this together and find a way that intimacy can be a something that is enjoyable and not a source of conflict. 

From time to time intimacy will drive a couple towards self development which may feel like conflict, but this should be viewed as an opportunity to help each other improve. Odds are your wife needs you to develop better nonsexual intimacy for which she will likely respond better during sexual intimacy. 

Based on your description, there is a chance that you wife may be struggling with her self esteem in that your physical advances towards her are perceived as unwarranted. Many women claim in marriage that they grow to feel as if they are just being used sexually as an emotional connection has been gradually decaying over time in the marriage. Men tend to compensate with more desire for sex as a way to reestablish this connection, but when a woman has low self esteem these efforts then turn into something that serves to destroy the emotional connection in the marriage even more. This is because a wife with low self esteem convinces herself that her husband's urges for sex are completely arbitrary and completely unattributed to her beauty. Meanwhile a husband will perceive his wife as the most beautiful and desirable woman in the planet, but she will refuse to believe this as if it is just a lie to manipulate her for more sex. 

So if that is the case, self development would be to help improve you wife's self esteem. You will have to do this primarily through nonsexual intimacy as it proves to her that you are not using her. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Read the threads. These situations only get worse over time. Even the poster who claims to have got better only started to try after her husband detached. Anyway my recommendation is to start to detach and work on an exit plan. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its a sadly common situation, lots of threads.

First off though have you eliminated any medical or drug issues? Is she on any medication, birth control etc that could be affecting her libido? This can have a huge effect.

Then, is there anything she is unhappy about in your marriage? Is everything else good?

Have you changed in any way that might decrease her desire (other than natural ageing). Are you still in OK physical condition, do you do the same sort of romantic things for her that you did long ago etc?


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## charliechalk (Sep 14, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No, it will likely never change to full satisfaction. IMO, your best case is a slight improvement that might hold you for some more years. You may also get bouts of good sex if she feels you're serious about leaving over it that will fade again to where you are once she's comfortable again.
> 
> There is likely some little changes and tweaks that can be made for improvement. Insisting on once a week date nights and 15 hours a week alone (no kids, no electronics) time, no grabbing at her bits (most women I talk to hate this with a passion) doing more daylong foreplay and not just right before sex.
> 
> But the main point will always be- is the effort worth the small improvement for you?


Ouch, it sounds like you've really been through it with this one. Thanks for your input, it certainly shows that I shouldn't leave things too long without saying anything.



badsanta said:


> @charliechalk it sounds as if you and your wife can talk openly and realistically about sex in your marriage. This is a huge plus, as it will be challenging to work through this together and find a way that intimacy can be a something that is enjoyable and not a source of conflict.
> 
> From time to time intimacy will drive a couple towards self development which may feel like conflict, but this should be viewed as an opportunity to help each other improve. Odds are your wife needs you to develop better nonsexual intimacy for which she will likely respond better during sexual intimacy.
> 
> ...


This is really useful thanks Badsanta, I hadn't looked at it from this angle and I think it is certianly something that I will try to help her with. Maybe she is feeling a little low on self esteem. I'll try this before bouling in with an ultimatum.



WorkingOnMe said:


> Read the threads. These situations only get worse over time. Even the poster who claims to have got better only started to try after her husband detached. Anyway my recommendation is to start to detach and work on an exit plan.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ha ha, thanks. I'm not ready to just give up yet but I will take on board the advice I have received and am receiving on here.



She'sStillGotIt said:


> As someone else said, a woman is *constantly* doing for everyone else but herself.
> 
> That doesn't *stop* after 6 pm like it does for you when you leave work. It doesn't stop on the weekends like it does for you, or the middle of the night or on holidays like it does for you. Her responsibility to OTHERS is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, year after year after year.
> 
> ...


Who do you think you are?? Your response is vile and you know nothing about me apart for my posts.

Firstly, I am the one who looks after the children whilst she goes to work. Therefore I am the one that is constantly taking them to school, thinking about their meals, feeding them, bathing them, taking them the various activitites they do throughout the week. Just because I am a man you jump to conclusions - how sexist!

My nasty child attitude? What are you talking about? Because I want sex with my wife, who I love, you feel that is childish??

No it isn't all about me actually, it's about a our relationship as a husband and wife not about us being best buddies who live together

Your post has helped though, it has made me thankful that I'm not married to some old fashioned sexist prat like you. Your poor partner, if you even have one foolish enought to stick around...


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

So you ran the typical course of a sex life in marriage after a few kids. You and many others like you. Talk to your wife. Tell her that you cannot go on much longer with your sex life as it is and you do not want to cheat like a lot of guys do when they are not getting enough at home. Maybe she can meet you halfway but even then, sex without desire and passion is usually worse than masturbation watching porn. 

My wife did what few wives would do. She set me up with her recently divorced girlfriend who did not want to date but wanted sex. We ended up giving her a room in our home and my wife and I shared her for 30 years. She was more into sex with me than with my wife but hung with my wife. She liked all the same fetishes that I do and was good at them. She had 38 EE breasts on nice body with long blonde hair and Norwegian milk white skin. That solved our problem. My wife was glad to have someone to pass me off to when I was horny and she was not. Plus she had her best friend living with her and so was a very happy camper. No jealousy and not even one argument with our girlfriend. She fit into our marriage perfectly knowing her role.

Then we moved far away. We were a couple again and like you I needed sex much more than my wife did. In fact, my wife would be fine with sex once or twice a year as she prefers women for sex but men for everything else. I told her that if I did not get sex from her I assume I could get it elsewhere. That had an effect on her but the sex was out of marital duty and no fun at all. I often left the bed complaining about it being too mechanical. Once again we had an unusual solution. For the last 5 years we have been into chastity play. Google it as it takes many forms. What it does is allow my wife control over our sex life and focusing sex on her, not me. As a result of being in control of our sex life, my wife is having some of the best orgasms of her life at 65. We only have sex twice a week, but that is more than most our age are having. Plus my wife will sexually tease me daily keeping me constantly sexually aroused. It has greatly helped me control my libido and can go a few months without an oragsm. We still have regular sex but all that is missing is the 10 seconds of my orgasm. Chastity slowed down my libido (It has been 45 days since my last orgasm) and increased hers. I thought chastity was stupid and guys wanting to forgo many of their orgasms were crazy. What I did not know then was that I would become addicted to feeling sexually aroused all the time and being turned on by the smallest of things like my wife's bare shoulder. 

If you are curious as to how I control my masturbation, I wear a custom made chastity cage that she locks on me and removed when she wants to play with me. We have been at this for almost 5 years and it took a sexless marriage and made it fun. It took my sexual frustration of not having enough sex and turned it into a fun sexual fetish.


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## charliechalk (Sep 14, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Very true too shesstillgotit.
> 
> And being on the clock and having your husband come up and grab at your bits is usually just annoying.
> 
> If you want to use your hands, use them to help. I think I would O on the spot if a man said "babe, go relax. I'll take care of everything else tonight. You've done a lot already."


Your making me out to be some kind of weirdo who goes up and grabs her tits then walks off. It isn't like that at all, I'm simply showing her some affection. In my original post I meant if we kiss I don't then make any sexual advances so it is entirely up to her.

For information I do loads for her, I constantly take care of the house by cooking, tidying and sorting the kids. Just because I'm a man it doesn't mean I do a 9-5, come in the house, demand a beer and some sex!!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Change "I do loads for her" to "I do my job around the house" 

Nothing less sexy than a man who thinks cooking and tidying and taking care of his kids is "for her" 

A subtle but important distinction. Do you both work?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

charliechalk said:


> Ouch, it sounds like you've really been through it with this one. Thanks for your input, it certainly shows that I shouldn't leave things too long without saying anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh that rascally She'sStillGotIT 

Yeah, if you read many of the sex starved husband threads, what she said above simply doesn't apply, and is a ridiculous stereotype and catchy "on the clock 24/7 having to do it aaaaalll" trope that falls flat in most cases, but it sounds good and feels good for some to say. And in some cases, it may actually be close to true, just not nearly in as many cases as some would like to believe.

The reality is that all the things you do, the care you give to the family and relationship are at best seen as the norm, status quo, are expected, taken for granted, so anything more you do will not have much of a positive affect, but anything less that you do will make things worse.

To me, it sounds like your wife just isn't attracted to you any more, and unfortunately, that is something that rarely changes, no matter what you do.


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## charliechalk (Sep 14, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Change "I do loads for her" to "I do my job around the house"
> 
> Nothing less sexy than a man who thinks cooking and tidying and taking care of his kids is "for her"
> 
> A subtle but important distinction. Do you both work?


Fair comment, I don't actually go around saying I do it all for her...we both work yes.


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## charliechalk (Sep 14, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> Oh that rascally She'sStillGotIT
> 
> Yeah, if you read many of the sex starved husband threads, what she said above simply doesn't apply, and is a ridiculous stereotype and catchy "on the clock 24/7 having to do it aaaaalll" trope that falls flat in most cases, but it sounds good and feels good for some to say. And in some cases, it may actually be close to true, just not nearly in as many cases as some would like to believe.
> 
> ...


Thanks, it might sound good for She'sStillGotIT to say but she's come across as a right troll. Anyway...The attraction thing came up in our discussion / argument and she swore she still found me attractive, I looked for every sign to see if it was a lie but she went on to say she genuinely did - how she likes my bum, my shoulders, my face etc. If it was that then at least I'd know the reason but I'm not so sure.


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## spawn2031 (Jul 19, 2017)

@charliechalk

I feel for ya man. As you can see by responses here, there are many in your boat. I myself have been on this site for a month or 2 and this kind of thread (the same kind that I posted here for my first time also) is far too prevalent. There are quite a few books that are frequently mentioned here for folks in our situations. His Needs Her Needs, No More Mr. Nice Guy, to name a couple. Check 'em out and see if they fit your situation. One of the biggest issues is that women don't get the fact that sex is an actual emotional need of our, much like us being present and attentive in the relationship is a need of theirs. No offense meant here by any means but you mentioned that you take care of the kids and do many of the jobs that would normally be attributed to the woman, has this by chance made you lose some of your masculinity? Maybe you've lost some of the edge that made you so attractive to your wife in the first place? I ask because I am kind of in the same situation as you, I take care of a lot of the household duties and help as much as I can with the kids and anything else my wife needs. Not because I want to say, "oooh look what I did for you, now drop your panties" but because it's what a good partner does. Because of this, I do feel that I allowed my beta side to dominate my alpha side a little too much and am working on that. Perhaps you can take a look at that too?

Point is, there's a ton of resources on here Bro and even more opinions. There are definitely thing you can try and, as long as your wife is open to trying them out seriously, I dont see any reason you should be looking for it elsewhere. Unless she just flat out says to hell with it, I'm not changing. If that happens then, please take the advice of many others here and do the right thing. Divorce first before you cheat.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Has your wife ever told you that you are not carrying your weight? Does she complain about "doing it all"?

Look...there are certain types of triggering threads where posters here will project. Hell, I'm periodically guilty of it as well.

What are all the special things you do for her? Think about it. These are the things that you do only for her, and if she were to die tomorrow, you would stop doing.

Cleaning the house? Nope. Taking the kids to school? Nope.

Massages? Dates? Foot rubs? Letting her control the thermostat? All of that applies.

Look...you can try to do more of that...and frankly, you need to if you are struggling to think of any. This would make posters like @She'sStillGotIt correct.

However, if you are already doing these things in abundance...you can do _less_.

Right now, she is not thinking of your needs, or is not taking them seriously.

Stop everything you do specifically for her. Use that time to do things you are interested in: hobbies, time with kids only...stuff without her. She will notice.

At first, you will get this:

"What's wrong?'

Smile, and tell her nothing is wrong.

When she finally gets frustrated enough to ask you why you have stopped doing these things, you say:

"You made it clear that fulfilling a partners needs in a relationship are not important."

This will likely anger her, and it will be "all about sex".

Shrug your shoulders and say:

"When you are ready to talk without marginalizing my needs in a relationship, I am ready to listen."

Then walk away.

Bottom line is that you invest into her needs exactly as much as she invests into yours.

Now...if she does not say anything about you stopping on the things just for her, your marriage is in dire trouble.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

charliechalk said:


> Thanks, it might sound good for She'sStillGotIT to say but she's come across as a right troll. Anyway...*The attraction thing came up in our discussion / argument* and she swore she still found me attractive, I looked for every sign to see if it was a lie but she went on to say she genuinely did - how she likes my bum, my shoulders, my face etc. If it was that then at least I'd know the reason but I'm not so sure.


Of course she'll say those things, but have you asked yourself why it took a discussion / argument for her to say those words? Why you don't just feel it? What does she regularly say and do that makes you feel as if she is attracted to you?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

charliechalk said:


> Thanks, it might sound good for She'sStillGotIT to say but she's come across as a right troll. Anyway...The attraction thing came up in our discussion / argument and she swore she still found me attractive, I looked for every sign to see if it was a lie but she went on to say she genuinely did - how she likes my bum, my shoulders, my face etc. If it was that then at least I'd know the reason but I'm not so sure.


"It's hard to hear your words when your actions speak so loudly."


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> V
> If you want to use your hands, use them to help. *I think I would O on the spot if a man said "babe, go relax. I'll take care of everything else tonight. You've done a lot already.*"


The men in these posts (not all men) on TAM do this ALL the time and I can assure you that none of their wives have "O'd on the spot".

Your problem was that your husband didn't devote any time or effort to your happiness.

With most of the men posting here probably spend too much time and effort on their wife's happiness.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Moderator:

The broad generalizations about men and women stops now. It is a thread jack.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

charliechalk said:


> Fair comment, I don't actually go around saying I do it all for her...we both work yes.


Then making sure you are doing 50% of the work is essential. Tidying, cooking and sometimes caring for kids doesn't seem like a 50% load share especially if you feel it is "for her". You don't have to say it for us to know that either. 

It's an important thing not just for sex but for the relationship as a whole. _Chores do not get you sex_ but you can sure bet that if your wife feels you aren't pulling your weight because it's your responsibility she is less likely to want to sleep with you. 

As I said, you can make small changes (like this, and more dates and alone time) to get small changes. 

If that's worth it for you then try, if not then divorce. It will never be 100% fulfilling. You will always have to compromise on your end. I wouldn't blame anyone for divorcing for sexual incompatibility reasons.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Tough call. I can relate to much of what you have posted OP. The problem when there is a drive mismatch, it typically falls down to the level of the person with the lower drive (so really, the "LD" person is in the drivers seat). Really, your options are to step up what you are doing for her in hopes that will make a difference (might work, at least short term, but odds are it won't). You could go the complete other direction, pull a 180 (I would say this has a better chance of success vs the first option, but once again, may be nothing more than a short term fix). At the end of the day, you will need to decide what is most important to you. Let's say that there will me a minimal improvement at most in your sex life while married, is that enough for you to consider ending the marriage (everyone will feel differently about this so there is no right answer)? In my case, everything else for me I am happy with, and over time I just don't have much interest in sex anymore, so the frustration that you are dealing with now I no longer deal with (many frustrated years though). Now, if other areas in my marriage went south, or my libido suddenly decided to catch fire, my answer might be completely different lol. My W doesn't like my lack of interest or that I have somewhat detached, but at the end of the day this is the better option (for me).


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

charliechalk said:


> We had been discussing for weeks that we would have a ‘breakfast date’ this morning because both kids were at school and we were both off. We would head out for breakfast and then back to ours for some lovin’. However, on the way back from breakfast I mentioned that we should do some decorating in our house at some point, just a lick of paint. My wife then got really excited and said we should go to the DIY store, I asked her if she was absolutely sure and she said yes. We picked the paint and started to head home, I contained my excitement thinking we were finally going to do it when we got back but I was also now conscious of the time before we had to pick our youngest up from school in 30 mins. When we walked through the front door she then started doing jobs around the house - stuff that could’ve waited...and then said after that she had to go and pick our kid up.


It is very common for women in a long-term relationship and, especially with kids, to move from spontaneous desire (thoughts of sex are top of mind and they're always ready to go, like when the relationship was new and exciting) to responsive desire (they rarely think about sex but, if they gave it a try, they enjoy themselves).

It's possible that, at some point in the future, that they'll return to spontaneous desire. It's also possible that they won't. Are you willing to wait 10 years to see if it changes? If you wait 10 years and nothing changes, you'll just be 10 years older with fewer options.

Your best possible outcome is the one NJ2 describes. In order for this to improve, your wife has to acknowledge that there's a problem and want to do something about it. It's your job to make crystal clear to her that it's a problem, why it's a problem and the likely consequences to the marriage if it's not resolved. Have this talk ONCE only. Then focus on filling her needs without initiating sex. If this doesn't change anything, then start changing your behavior (what @farsidejunky said). If she still doesn't see it as a problem, then your only hope it to start a 180 to begin emotionally withdrawing from the the relationship and prepare for being on your own. There is a small chance that this will trigger her desire to keep you around but it's not likely and shouldn't be done for that reason. If the only way that you'll be happy is for your wife to have the same spontaneous desire for sex that you have, you're almost certainly out of luck.

Of course, make sure that you're doing your best to meet her needs. And make sure that they really are her needs and not just what you assume are her needs.

Now, for the specifics. Did you make it clear to her that the "breakfast date" was meant to include sex? If not, and you you were just hoping that she'd figure it out, that was a mistake. Your wife isn't the type of person to give your happiness priority; she doesn't walk around thinking "what can I do to make my husband happy". If you actually wanted sex then, you need to make it clear and then take her hand and lead her to the bedroom when you get home. If she says "no", at least you know where you stand. Don't be passive! If your wife really just isn't attracted to you, it's better to find out now than 10 years from now.

Read this for an alternate view of how many women feel about sex

http://www.drpsychmom.com/2014/07/1...y-no-preschooler-drawings-in-this-post-sorry/


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OP would you say you do more than 50% of the household and kid chores?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> My W doesn't like my lack of interest or that I have somewhat detached, but at the end of the day this is the better option (for me).


Does she know what's causing it?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Read MMSLP (married mans sex life primer). It is a bit over the top, but the general concepts about desire can be used effectively. It really helped me understand my situation and what (and they are very limited) things I could do to change.

In general, more chores isn't going to work and may actually have the opposite effect (the lady up thread is projecting big time, because in her situation her H did nothing. my guess is you do what most guys do, start doing much more the chore burden. Many studies show that this actually causes women to think of you like a maid, not a man).


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

FTR- I was agreeing with she'sstillgotit about women usually doing far more work than people even realize and that it's exhausting. Not deciding either way if the OP does or doesn't do his share. 
I have less work now as a single parent and yes by H didn't help around the house but household chore division is a huge issue for many women and their sexual desire so making sure you always do your share is vital. As are weekly date nights and alone time. As are meeting other needs (acts of service, gifts, etc) 

And doing all these things may get you the best results you can hope for but it's not likely enough. Someone who doesn't consider sex important just usually never will. If he's wanting small improvements he can make small improvements. If he wants a burst of lots of sex that dwindles every time she feels comfortable he can go the "tough man who will leave" approach. There's no good options in a sex starved marriage. Just crappy ones. Do more giving to get a small return, scare her into sex every year or so, or leave your home and kids and half your life.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> Does she know what's causing it?


Yes, she understands that lack of sex is the issue. I think that used to frustrate me in the past, where she would comment about how much more I am attached/affectionate when we have sex (so logical me would think that in itself should be enough incentive for her to want to help maintain our sex life). The difference, in the past she could see my resentment/frustration build. At this point now, I really don't have any frustration/resentment since my general interest in sex is minimal (acceptance, complacency, maybe low t , etc... I don't know), so she may not know what to think (but has made comments at time that there is worry that I don't need her).

I should add for the OP, don't take my situation as the best way to handle lol. Mine is probably different where even though I am the higher drive, I have more control over (my W doesn't reject me, etc...). Over time, it has just gotten harder and harder to stay interested in someone physically when they make nothing more than the minimal effort.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> Read MMSLP (married mans sex life primer). It is a bit over the top, but the general concepts about desire can be used effectively. It really helped me understand my situation and what (and they are very limited) things I could do to change.
> 
> In general, more chores isn't going to work and may actually have the opposite effect (the lady up thread is projecting big time, because in her situation her H did nothing. my guess is you do what most guys do, start doing much more the chore burden. Many studies show that this actually causes women to think of you like a maid, not a man).


Yeah, men don't have the market cornered when it comes to thinking of their spouse as the hired help.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I could have written the story about the paint trumping the alone time myself a thousand times over. 

I'm not sure it's an actual attraction issue since she does step up to the plate when called out and does enjoy it and get into it when it happens. 

It's kinda of a priority issue. 

There were times in our past where sex was number 327 on her priority list right after picking blades of grass out of the seams in the sidewalk. 

As long as all the other 326 things on the list were done to her satisfaction, she was game!

I wish I could say we had a heart-to-heart discussion and communicated each of our needs and turn ins and learned how to turn each other on and we turned the corner and our sex life became very active and satisfying and blissful again.

But that's not how it went down at all. It became a festering point of contention with resentments and frustrations on both sides and it boiled over into some damaging fights that resulted in landing us in the MC's office hoping to avoid divorce.

A big part of our therapy was understanding each other's love languages. (Her's acts of service, mine physical touch and words of affirmation)

I had to learn to work better with her collaboratively with the house and kids in order for her to feel respected and valued. 

And the MC had to get across to her that my needs were valid and did matter.

The "Ah Hah!" Moment was when the MC got in her face and said that I did count and that I would eventually disengage and leave her for someone else if she did not take my needs seriously.

The MC also pointed out to her that I may not be the worlds best mother or the worlds best maid or the worlds best girlfriend, but that I was performing the roles of husband, father and lover and that if she wanted to remain married she would have to take my needs seriously or she would be a single mother and she would be performing those 326 tasks anyway and would be picking the blades of grass out of the sidewalk all on her own while some other woman was getting my love and devotion. 

It really did take the realization that my needs mattered and that ignoring and blowing them off would result in the end of our marriage for her to take it seriously.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now that was a painful and resentment-filled realization for her and that came with it's own set of issues. It's not like she was full of love and desire once that message got through to her. 

I had to step up too. And I had to do what I could to work in partnership with her in all marital matters to where she was better off with me in all areas vs without me including in the bedroom.


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## Finwe (Nov 5, 2015)

Charlietalk, could you possibly schedule sex? Explicitly? Not, we go on a date and maybe get lucky. But some time scheduled specifically for sex.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> It really did take the realization that my needs mattered and that ignoring and blowing them off would result in the end of our marriage for her to take it seriously.


This is often referred to as coercion; like forcing someone to have sex with you against their will and who wants that?

But, really, it's more like this is what's needed to make some people understand that you are serious about your needs.

It would be a shame to leave someone when they they might have been very happy to fulfill your needs if they ever really understood how important they were to you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Buddy400 said:


> This is often referred to as coercion; like forcing someone to have sex with you against their will and who wants that?
> 
> But, really, it's more like this is what's needed to make some people understand that you are serious about your needs.
> 
> It would be a shame to leave someone when they they might have been very happy to fulfill your needs if they ever really understood how important they were to you.


It's not coercion. If she didn't want to have sex with me, that would be her perogative and her choice. I did not and would not coerce her into sex.

It is that I need a certain degree of romance and sexuality in order to remain in the marriage. 

If she wants to remain in the marriage, then we would need to figure out how to maintain a marital love life.

It's not a threat or duress or any kind of extortion etc. 

If celibacy meant more to her than the other benefits of marriage, then it would have been her choice and an informed decision of her free will.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Buddy400 said:


> It would be a shame to leave someone when they they might have been very happy to fulfill your needs if they ever really understood how important they were to you.


This is where a good marriage counselor can make the difference.

My wife just thought I was being a perv and that my desire for sexuality while we had little kids was unreasonable and frivolous.

I had tried to talk with her until I was blue in the face and all it did was make me look like a whiner and made her mad and feel pressured.


Since our MC was not me, she did listen to him and he got through to her when he told her that all men will want and expect a sex life in marriage even if there are kids. 

And he made some headway with her when he explained that in order for a man to feel connected and in partnership with a woman, she has to be sexually responsive with him.

But the real "Ah Hah!" Moment came when he made her understand that I was ready, willing and able to leave in order to obtain a sex life and that was not an unreasonable and unjustified thing. 

In other words I was willing to divorce, lose half the marital assets and only have my kids half the time to have a sex life.

Then he asked her if she was willing to divorce, lose half the assets and only have 50 % access to the kids in order to not have me love her and give her orgasms.................(crickets).........you could have heard a pin drop for what seemed an eternity as we waited for her answer.



This was the moment she realized how important it was to me.

Even though I had been saying more less the same thing for a couple years, it took a professional counselor with a PhD hanging on his wall while we were at the brink if divorce (which she never really grasped until then) for her to see the light. 

Some times you have to blow things up and people have to lose something before they can grasp the seriousness of the issue.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now to be fair, he called me on some things too and there were things that were important to her that were over my head as well. 

There were things that were killing her respect and esteem for me which were in turning killing her attraction and desire for me and making her feel like I was not invested in the home and family - which that in turn made her feel like my interest in sex was the classic "..."just for sex" mentality. 

We both had homework to do to bring our relationship back from the edge. 

But the point I wanted to make in this, is she did not understand or grasp my need for marital sexuality until she realized I was willing to dissolve the marriage in order to obtain it elsewhere. 

... And I'll be frank, it made her very angry and resentful for awhile. But it took an educated, professional counselor telling her that all men are this way and that no man will settle for just just being an assistant maid and Mother's Helper without marital sexuality being a part of the equation.

This is why the guys that suck it up, accept a sexless marriage and try to "nice" their way back into their wive's knickers go YEARS in sexless marriages and then find out their wife is banging her boss or her personal trainer or some old BF. 

Some times you have to be willing to blow up or just walk away from a marriage in order to save it.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Now to be fair, he called me on some things too and there were things that were important to her that were over my head as well.
> 
> There were things that were killing her respect and esteem for me which were in turning killing her attraction and desire for me and making her feel like I was not invested in the home and family - which that in turn made her feel like my interest in sex was the classic "..."just for sex" mentality.
> 
> ...


I'm still having trouble with this whole concept. So she decides that saving the marriage is worth putting out more. You may force her to flip the switch of willingness, but that is hardly a way of flipping the switch of desire--she's only doing it under some form of emotional and/or financial duress. This seems no better that not enough sex in the first place.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm still having trouble with this whole concept. So she decides that saving the marriage is worth putting out more. You may force her to flip the switch of willingness, but that is hardly a way of flipping the switch of desire--she's only doing it under some form of emotional and/or financial duress. This seems no better that not enough sex in the first place.


Let's say that your wife loves spending the day in cutesy towns, window shopping and having lunch.

Do you like spending the day in cutesy towns (if by some bizarre twist, you do actually like this, let's assume for the sake of argument that you don't)? Would you do it alone or with a co-worker?

No. You do it because your wife likes it and, to tell the truth, you do like being with her in a pleasant environment when she's feeling happy. It actually turns out to be pretty fun. It gives you a chance to spend more time together by yourselves. It improves the marriage.

Let's say that she loves doing stuff like that but never really made a point to you how much it mattered to her. You thought it was "silly girl stuff". You would have gone (and ended up having a good time) had you known how important it was to her. But, you didn't know so you never went. Sometimes she wishes that you were the kind of guy who would do that sort of thing.

But, she didn't want to feel like you were doing it "just because she made you". She didn't want you to do it because you were coerced. So, you she didn't ask and neither of you did it.

Would your marriage be better if you'd both done that more often? Wouldn't it have been nice if you'd spent more time together like that? Wouldn't it have been nice if she made clear how much it meant to her? You would have made more of an effort to be open to the idea, maybe you would have liked it more if you got to pick the restaurant you went to for lunch. But, she never even gave you the chance. You were supposed to just want to do it all on your own.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm still having trouble with this whole concept. So she decides that saving the marriage is worth putting out more. You may force her to flip the switch of willingness, but that is hardly a way of flipping the switch of desire--she's only doing it under some form of emotional and/or financial duress. This seems no better that not enough sex in the first place.


If she had responsive desire, arousal comes before desire.

But, she has to be willing to allow arousal to happen and many women with responsive desire have a hard time doing that.

So, flipping the willingness switch can be a key step to flipping the desire switch as well.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Buddy400 said:


> Let's say that your wife loves spending the day in cutesy towns, window shopping and having lunch.
> 
> Do you like spending the day in cutesy towns (if by some bizarre twist, you do actually like this, let's assume for the sake of argument that you don't)? Would you do it alone or with a co-worker?
> 
> ...


Apples and oranges, at least to me.

If I talk her into seeing a Chuck Norris movie with me or going to a Rush concert with me, I'm not expecting actual desire on her part. There are simply expectations I have for sex that I don't have have for non intimate activities. 

There have been times she has given me a HJ when I was really in the mood and she wasn't. Sometimes she enjoyed pleasing me, other times it was clear she would rather be doing something else. While I might have finished both times, one was a good experience and the other wasn't. Despite her attempts to prevent it, I could tell the difference and it made all the difference in the world.

I understand that finally understanding the importance may lead the wife to take more interest... or it may not. I suspect it's the latter more often. And even if she does take more interest, it won't be a watershed change--it'll be as minor a change as it could be without losing the marriage.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

A link for your wife - https://forgivenwife.com/new-to-this-blog-start-here/

Number of good articles that talk about why sex is so important to a marriage.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

RMY: I think of it slightly differently. I agree that undesired, passionless sex is unpleasant and best avoided. But I don't think that is what happens 100% of the time when the lower desire partner has their "aha" moment.

Sometimes, what happens is the lower drive partner realizes they have to have sex more often, so they finally focus their attention on what it would take for them to actually WANT it more often. You see, while they can just say "no" and make it stick without their partner leaving, they don't really have to consider WHY they don't want more sex or what it would take to want more. But once they realize the marriage is gong to end if they don't participate more, they start to focus on what would make it better for them.

If they aren't forced to have sex, easier to ignore what they need and just tell their spouse to stuff it and go masturbate in the other room and leave them alone. While they focus on the items on their priority list that they view as more important or urgent. Once sex gets into a high slot on their priority list (yes, "at gunpoint"), they finally turn their attention to maximizing their satisfaction with the sex or at least with the prospect of having sex.

Or to put it more mathematically, many LDs have a list of tasks that provide them with satisfaction ranging from +5 to +50 on the satisfaction scale. To them, at least after a few years of marriage and a few kid, sex as typically provided by their spouse is -5. So they are not willing to discard any of the positive score items on their list to make time for sex. Once you force them to put sex on their list (by making clear that refusing to engage in the sex task will result in adding "trip to divorce court with satisfaction value -5,000" to their list), suddenly it becomes unacceptable to them to "waste" the time on a task with satisfaction -5. Now they are laser focused on turning sex from a -5 to a +2. And when you get them to +2, then they want to see if it is possible to get from +2 to +7. And often it is. But they would never have invested the time and effort in getting sex from -5 to +7 if you hadn't placed the -5,000 point divorce filing on the table.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm still having trouble with this whole concept. So she decides that saving the marriage is worth putting out more. You may force her to flip the switch of willingness, but that is hardly a way of flipping the switch of desire--she's only doing it under some form of emotional and/or financial duress. This seems no better that not enough sex in the first place.


If it was a case of her truly not wanting to have a sex life with me and truly not attracted to me and truly did not love me, then yes, you would be correct. 

But the thing is that for a lot of women, they actual do love their husbands and do enjoy sex with them and do have an underlying sexdrive and interest........but what often happens is they get so bogged down with kids and jobs and the million details of daily life that sexuality gets put on the back burner for them. 

It's not that they truly do not enjoy sex or truly do not want to have sex with their husband (some don't, but that's another topic) It's that they have 492 different things on their minds and sex is number 493 on their mind and if there are dishes in the sink or the dog hair on the seats of the car after bringing the dog home from the vet then sex is out of the question - it will just have to wait. 

To some women, sex can simply wait until the kids are grown and out of the house. It's not that they didn't like it and it's not that they don't want to do it again some day - it's that they get bogged down with the minutia of daily life and family living and sex drops to the bottom of their priority list. 

By contrast however is the man's interest and priority of sex does not really change with the addition of children and if he gets pushed too far down on the priority list the frustration, resentment and bitter starts to grow. and no man is ok having his sexuality set on the shelf for 18+ years until she decides things have settled down enough to resume a sex life. 

Many women just do not grasp the importance of sexuality in a man's life. For women Sex is easy for them. It is always available to them and always there for the taking whenever they want it. There is never any sense of urgency or yearning. It's there waiting for them whenever they decide they want some. 

So for them it's nothing for them to take a hiatus and put it on the backburner until they feel it's feel it's time to have it again. 

But men just don't work that way. 

cont...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

....cont.....

So what happens in situations like mine is when things go on a downhill spiral out of control and the resentments and frustrations boil over to where the marriage takes a plunge, is it takes a jolt of reality and a glimpse of the seriousness of the situation. 

It's not that my wife didn't love me and it's not that she didn't like sex or never wanted to have it with me again. She had simply let things like keeping the sock drawers organized and color coordinated and keeping the grass out of the cracks in the driveway take priority over the health of our marital sex life. 

I truly believe that she thought I would be ok setting my balls on the shelf for several years and would not mind being sexless for years on end. I think it shocked her and that she had virtually no idea that it was important enough for me to dissolve the marriage over it. 

It wasn't that I coerced her into having sex with me or that she put out under duress to keep from being divorced. It was that she didn't realize she had got so bogged down with minutia and had neglected me to the point threatening our marriage. 

When faced with the real possibility of losing our marriage, she realized that getting pleasured and being loved and having orgasms weren't so bad and she realized that she was not willing to get divorced and be a single mother in order to not get loved up and have orgasms. 

She had lost sight of her actual priorities and lost sight of what was truly important to her. 

It took almost losing 50% of her time with her children and took almost losing me and it almost took losing her house to realize that the blades of grass in the cracks of the driveway were not more important to her than her own orgasms.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now there are women that have lost all attraction and desire for their husbands and who's husbands are not supportive at all and for whom they don't ever want to be sexual with again. 

But that is a different story and different topic. 

Many of these issues with couples with little kids are about balance and priorities and working together and compromise rather than a true dislike of sex. 

If someone has truly fallen out of love and truly lost attraction and desire and the thought of sex is repugnant to them, then yes, 99% of those cases is probably a lost cause. 

In situations like I have described where people just get bogged down, marriages can be save and people can get back together with compromise and collaboration and communication and mutual compassion and respect.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> If it was a case of her truly not wanting to have a sex life with me and truly not attracted to me and truly did not love me, then yes, you would be correct.
> 
> But the thing is that for a lot of women, they actual do love their husbands and do enjoy sex with them and do have an underlying sexdrive and interest........but what often happens is they get so bogged down with kids and jobs and the million details of daily life that sexuality gets put on the back burner for them.
> 
> ...


Hmmmmm ...
I understand that it's easy for women to move sex down the priority list--actually some men do that as well (career driven workaholics mostly), but I've not heard of cases where sexually dormant women suddenly erupt when the last fledging leaves the next. When you establish a pattern of behavior over 18 or more years, it is not naturally or easily reversed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Hmmmmm ...
> I understand that it's easy for women to move sex down the priority list--actually some men do that as well (career driven workaholics mostly), but I've not heard of cases where sexually dormant women suddenly erupt when the last fledging leaves the next. When you establish a pattern of behavior over 18 or more years, it is not naturally or easily reversed.


I completely agree. 

But that is not how they see it at the time. Many are just wanting to get through the day. It's not until years and years later that they realize that that "some day" never came. 

That's why it's important for husbands to not let it slide for years on end. 

It's better to take definitive action now and risk blowing up everything now rather than letting it slide for years and years and look back 18 years later and realize you've wasted a big chunk of your life waiting for a moment that never happened.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> But the thing is that for a lot of women, they actual do love their husbands and do enjoy sex with them and do have an underlying sexdrive and interest........but what often happens is they get so bogged down with kids and jobs and the million details of daily life that sexuality gets put on the back burner for them..........................


This and the following post need to be seen by everyone. @EllisRedding

In the cases where the guy's a jerk, a fat pig or sexually selfish or the wife's doesn't care about her husband's happiness or is repulsed by the thought of sex with him, none of this applies.

But I believe that there are many cases like yours that *can be improved*. The proposition that 75% of women in long term relationships have responsive desire helps explain it.

In my different but related case, my wife is pissed that she didn't understand years earlier. While we always had a good marriage, it's been exceptional since and she's having the best orgasms of her life on a regular basis. 

All those years that we can't get back.............


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm still having trouble with this whole concept. So she decides that saving the marriage is worth putting out more. You may force her to flip the switch of willingness, but that is hardly a way of flipping the switch of desire--she's only doing it under some form of emotional and/or financial duress. This seems no better that not enough sex in the first place.


What you are not factoring in is the need to please. When she grasps how important it is, combined with a high level of respect, the need to please becomes a factor. Then it is more than "get it over with" duty sex.

Oldshirt, our stories are incredibly similar.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

charliechalk said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I signed up because I’m starting to feel at a loss as to what to do about my sex life between myself and my wife. We have been married for almost 10 years but together for almost 20. When we met we had great sex, often. It remained good throughout our early years of marriage and then we had two children, now 7 & 3. Naturally things have gradually slipped but they’ve become much worse than I can bear and I recently had to bring up the subject saying the lack of sex was an issue for me. It ended in an argument but we eventually agreed that we had differing sex drives, she said she still found me attractive and loved it when we do have sex but that she just didn’t want it as frequently. I was ok with this because I didn’t feel like it was an issue with me. I, like most men, could have sex every day. However, I understand that women are different and my wife said that she would make more of an effort with us and would look after me a little more. All fine, or so I thought...
> 
> ...




Sounds similar to my marriage as well and my 18th year anniversary was September 11.


Some people have high sex drives and are more physical. They can have sex almost everyday. = HD


Some people have low sex drives and are less physical. They can have sex once in a while. = LD


There isn't much you can do. If you've talked about it, she knows, and nothing really changes in the end, she is happy to take care of her needs and not yours.


I bought a really great sex toy and use it when Mrs.CuddleBug is usually not in the mood. This way no pestering her for sex. Consequences is we aren't physical much at all and I'm doing my own thing. Friendly room mates with occasional benefits. You have to start doing your own thing, hobbies, gym, going out, etc.


It's called sexual mismatch. HD spouses will jump through hoops to get their LD spouses in the mood. HD spouses get the crumbs off the table.....


If your wife truly loved you, she would make the effort to have sex and physicality with you often. She would go to the doctor and see if her hormones are okay. She would go to the gym, get the blood flowing and be active. She would want to have sex with you instead of being comfy and not.


See, anything that isn't sex / physical related will excite her because its just that. Lets decorate, too tired for sex.


Research shows that when men have sex 3x minimum every week, it reduces the chances of heart attacks and issues by 50%. 3x week isn't a lot for those type of benefits.


LD spouses will make it sound like sex is a chore and there's no time. Sex isn't a chore and it bonds hubby and wifee together more than talking and just doing things together. That's the difference between friends and a wife.


Don't let her control when you actually have sex with her. That's not loving. You take care of business with your sex toy(s) and when she actually is in the mood, great, otherwise, take care of business because she won't.


She is using the kids as an excuse not to have sex with you, plain and simple.


It's not rocket science that us men like fit ladies that are into sex often........not rocket science at all, yet in 2017, these issues still persist..........


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Hmmmmm ...
> I understand that it's easy for women to move sex down the priority list--, but I've not heard of cases where sexually dormant women suddenly erupt when the last fledging leaves the next. .


 there are some that do - but it is with another man. 

That's another reason that men should not let things slide for long periods of time. But that is also another topic for another discussion.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> This and the following post need to be seen by everyone. @EllisRedding
> 
> In the cases where the guy's a jerk, a fat pig or sexually selfish or the wife's doesn't care about her husband's happiness or is repulsed by the thought of sex with him, none of this applies.
> 
> ...


Actually, I already understand that and acknowledge I can do things to help. However, as has been shown time and time again, it will ultimately fall on me almost entirely. Maybe in the past when my libido was raging that wasn't a big deal. I have just gotten to the point over the years where I don't have a lot of interest, and with so much other stuff going on between work and family, I don't really need another chore to add (I only state it as a chore b/c it would end up being 99.9% my responsibility). We have talked about all this many times, things get better short term, but inevitably go back to the usual. Tough to get excited about working on when the end result is always the same. She fits the classic responsive desire definition, and honestly, probably the only way to really get her to change would be to do a complete 180 and even threaten divorce (I have no intention of threatening divorce as this is not something I personally would divorce over).

Don't want to get sidetracked though since the focus should be on the OP. As some of the others have stated here, you could be doing everything "right" and it doesn't make a difference (i.e. it isn't always "If she doesn't want to have sex with you it is b/c you are ugly, bad in the sack, etc..."). There has been some excellent feedback here on ways to approach (mine probably not the best lol).


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

WOW @oldshirt, speaking as a woman with children aged 19 & 20, I absolutely agree with your posts on this thread. Spot-on, impressive description of the dynamic that very often takes place for mothers of young children, especially if her personality type is detail-oriented and driven. (blades of grass? Lol yup) IMO your advice is golden. 

Yes, the sex IS still great, it just keeps moving further down the list of pirorities because it CAN. Don't let that happen OP. It's worth the blow-up. Once you get back on track, do things to keep her mind off the minutiae and slightly sexually charged every day. 

Good luck!


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

For the record charliechalk, the work you're willing to put in now pays big, BIG dividends in a mere 15 years...that semi-empty nest is a lot more fun with a rockin' sex life. 
Those blades of grass in the driveway cracks don't bother me as much these days. But yeah, I do still notice them


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I agree with those who say to detach. You can have calm discussions with her about the topic until you're blue in the face, and it will make no difference. I was in the same spot as you a few years ago. I love my wife--she is my best friend. And I couldn't imagine being apart from her and my kids. It's sort of a catch-22 situation to be in. You want more intimacy and you've tried everything except ultimatums. But you don't want to issue the ultimatum, because coerced intimacy doesn't really "count". You want the organic kind of intimacy that happens naturally as a result of her genuine desire for you. 

What I did was to mentally prepare myself for a life without intimacy, since I was in the catch-22. But at that point I became angry and felt like I was owed an explanation of what was wrong with me, at least so my anger could go away. Why wasn't I attractive enough? What made me a bad husband that didn't deserve the intimacy that other husbands got? So I sat my wife down to have this post-mortem talk. Not a discussion to ask for more intimacy--just an open dialogue for her to let me know what I'd done wrong, so I could have some closure. She responded in a way I didn't expect. I think her seeing that I'd essentially given up was the thing that finally made her understand the gravity of the situation. She pleaded for a chance to work on the issue but I repeatedly told her that I didn't want to coerce her into anything. I told her again that I was just looking for the reasons at this point. 

She initiated that night--something she hadn't done in 6 years. The discussion had brought us closer and made me love her all the more, so how could I resist? We now make love on a regular basis, and we both enjoy it. It makes our whole relationship better. She initiates on a regular basis. That's one thing that some people don't realize: In the case of a sexless marriage, treating the symptom often alleviates the cause. There is still an element of "it doesn't count" in the back of my head, but I'm happy with the status quo. I never really got reasons that I consider to be valid, but that's neither here nor there. 

For the record, years of wisdom in the archives of this forum demonstrate that doing more chores _never_ works. It doesn't even work in cases where the wife explicitly names lack of chores as a root cause.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Just wanted to say as someone in the "nest just became empty" stage of life, as are many of our friends, that some couples DO rekindle their sex life when the last kid leaves home. Even couples who had basically stopped having sex for years. Not all. Not even most. But some.

Still, the pain and risk of divorce and damage to the HD's self-esteem make cutting off sex and hoping it rekindles 20 years later a very poor strategy for a happy marriage or life.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Tatsuhiko said:


> I agree with those who say to detach. You can have calm discussions with her about the topic until you're blue in the face, and it will make no difference. I was in the same spot as you a few years ago. I love my wife--she is my best friend. And I couldn't imagine being apart from her and my kids. It's sort of a catch-22 situation to be in. You want more intimacy and you've tried everything except ultimatums. But you don't want to issue the ultimatum, because coerced intimacy doesn't really "count". You want the organic kind of intimacy that happens naturally as a result of her genuine desire for you.
> 
> What I did was to mentally prepare myself for a life without intimacy, since I was in the catch-22. But at that point I became angry and felt like I was owed an explanation of what was wrong with me, at least so my anger could go away. Why wasn't I attractive enough? What made me a bad husband that didn't deserve the intimacy that other husbands got? So I sat my wife down to have this post-mortem talk. Not a discussion to ask for more intimacy--just an open dialogue for her to let me know what I'd done wrong, so I could have some closure. She responded in a way I didn't expect. I think her seeing that I'd essentially given up was the thing that finally made her understand the gravity of the situation. She pleaded for a chance to work on the issue but I repeatedly told her that I didn't want to coerce her into anything. I told her again that I was just looking for the reasons at this point.
> 
> ...



Totally agree. Your honest, yet fatalistic conversation got through to her. Well done. She probably did/does love and desire you, but sex moved way down the priority list. You were able to make her see YOUR perspective in the same way oldshirt's MC was. Because she loves/desires you, and the marriage is healthy in general, you were able to overcome this significant problem. 

It doesn't sound like you should worry about that nagging element of "it doesn't count". She really did change her perspective, it counts!


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

charliechalk said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I signed up because I’m starting to feel at a loss as to what to do about my sex life between myself and my wife. We have been married for almost 10 years but together for almost 20. When we met we had great sex, often. It remained good throughout our early years of marriage and then we had two children, now 7 & 3. Naturally things have gradually slipped but they’ve become much worse than I can bear and I recently had to bring up the subject saying the lack of sex was an issue for me. It ended in an argument but we eventually agreed that we had differing sex drives, she said she still found me attractive and loved it when we do have sex but that she just didn’t want it as frequently. I was ok with this because I didn’t feel like it was an issue with me. I, like most men, could have sex every day. However, I understand that women are different and my wife said that she would make more of an effort with us and would look after me a little more. All fine, or so I thought...
> 
> ...


To be honest, I've only been in one relationship where the woman wasn't having lots of sex with me and it was my very first relationship. I learned early on that situation only occurs if I let it so after that I never made the mistake again. Here's what you need to start working on. 

First learn to advocate for yourself honestly and directly. That means don't feel shame about anything you are doing and if she calls you on it you should be able to look her in the eyes and calmly and coolly handle her criticism. For example, if she doesn't want you touching her you should be able to directly tell her that she's so sexy you can't keep your hands off her, and then tell her to put on something sexy and head to the bedroom. 

Second, never ever apologize for wanting sex with her, after all she's your wife that you love and find attractive and it's 100% normal to have a frequent and good sex life. 

Third you need to have some negotiating power because you NEVER negotiate with anyone from a point of weakness. That means that you need to decide what it is that you are willing to accept and what it is that you are willing to do to change that situation and then act on it. If you aren't willing to accept a sexless marriage, then take action and regain your power. This doesn't mean threaten consequences (threatening is a sign of an insecure person), instead have a plan in your head and follow it to the letter. For example, if she denies sex then you take charge and setup an appointment with a sex therapist and just tell her when to show up. If she doesn't show up or put in the effort then you go with your next step on the list until you've exhausted all of the options that you have control over.

Fourth, learn what a covert contract is and stop making them. You should never expect sex because of what you do for her. You should do things around the house because that's your job as the man, and you should expect sex simply because you and your wife are in love and married. 

Fifth is convince yourself that as a man you expect a good, frequent, and varied sex life with any woman you are seeing, whether it is your wife or if things don't work out the women after her. Your wife or any future women should understand that they don't get the pleasure of your company without the relationship being one that you enjoy (this goes both ways so you need to understand your part in it for them).


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

Some good advice here, but I'm just not buying the face-saving "Gosh, never realized how _important_ it was to him" narrative. 

You've been with a partner who initiated frequent, mutually enjoyable sex throughout the dating and newlywed phases, and who continues to initiate and/or display obvious desire/frustration now that you're shutting him down, and it takes a book or a third party or affair or threat of divorce to convince you it's important? 

That's self-serving, willful blindness, not ignorance--particularly if you dismissed your partner as a "perv" or used aggrieved phrases like "everything's always about sex for you!" 

You _knew_ damn well it was important; you just didn't care enough, OR you felt justified in & entitled to your posture of refusal (for reasons that may be more valid, or less so), OR you felt guilty but also secure in your belief that the consequences of intransigence (resentment? detachment? porn use?) were trivial enough to bear.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Phil Anders said:


> Some good advice here, but I'm just not buying the face-saving "Gosh, never realized how _important_ it was to him" narrative.
> 
> You've been with a partner who initiated frequent, mutually enjoyable sex throughout the dating and newlywed phases, and who continues to initiate and/or display obvious desire/frustration now that you're shutting him down, and it takes a book or a third party or affair or threat of divorce to convince you it's important?
> 
> ...



What you say does have truth in it. No one is naive or dumb enough to truly think it is not important.

But I think Don't Panic hit the nail on the head when she said sex gets pushed down the priority list "because it can."

These people know that sexuality is important to their partner, but when baby comes and feeding and changing baby takes priority without a fuss and then laundry and dishes take priority without incident, and then getting the dog to the groomer takes priority without any action - then in time the blades of grass in the driveway take priority and getting Aunt Beulah's 87th bday card in the mail before 2pm takes priority.

It is an incremental process that takes on a life ( or rather- a death) of it's own. 

People will get away with what they are allowed to get away with.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Phil Anders said:


> Some good advice here, but I'm just not buying the face-saving "Gosh, never realized how _important_ it was to him" narrative.


My wife swears that she never understood how important it was.

Before it hit the fan, I would never have believed that that was possible.

But, she insists she didn't (and her actions for the last five years back this up).

I believe her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now that being said, people also tend to think that others think, feel and react the way they do.

So when someone is getting obcessed with being the perfect parent and homemaker and is devoting themself to that, they really do think that the other feels (or SHOULD feel) the same as they do.

My wife knew sex was important to me, but I sincerely believe she assumed I would voluntarily forgo a regular Sexlife so I could devote myself fully to child-rearing and picking blades of grass too.

She knew I would want a continued Sexlife, but she grossly underestimated the degree. 

Just as I knew she would be a dedicated mother and homemaker - but I grossly underestimated the degree of that devotion and miscalculated how low of a priority she would place on a marital sex life.

And we both grossly underestimated the negative impact that the nose dive in sex would have on me.

I was enough of an adult to know we would not be living the porn life when kids came.

But I was not prepared for the degree that it would decrease and I was not prepared for the impact that would have on me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> But I was not prepared for the degree that it would decrease and I was not prepared for the impact that would have on me.


So in that sense, even I myself did not fully appreciate how important it was to me. I didn't realize the degree of importance until it was gone.

So while she did know it was important to me, she didn't realize the degree of importance until she realized I was ready cut losses and walk.

And she didn't realize how important it was to our marriage, home and family until she realized she may lose all three.

At that point, the blades of grass in the driveway weren't that important, and not getting touched and kissed and not getting orgasms from me wasn't that important either.

Celibacy may have seemed ok when she was obcessed with minutia and wasn't causing any problems.

But her tune changed when she realized celibacy was going to cost her marriage, home and family and she realized the cobwebs in the back corner of the basement could wait until after she got some good lovens from Big Daddy Oldshirt.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

NJ2 said:


> H stopped trying to have sex with me. At first it was a relief but then I got to thinking maybe he was turning towards someone else to have his needs met....I went to IC and she suggested I watch the TED video "mating in captivity". I did and it helped me see things from a new perspective.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps


One important factor that separates you from many others is that you were interested to take the time to watch the TED video.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Now that being said, people also tend to think that others think, feel and react the way they do.


You are just chock full of crucial insights today.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I know my wife doesn't believe how important it is. She would only understand it if I divorced her. No amount of words make any difference.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Same boat here. Short of divorce my wifee won't get it or change either.


Its sad that in 2017 ladies today still think that their men don't want sex much when married......that's either extremely naive, sheltered upbringing, only thinking about themselves LD.


A woman who doesn't think sex is important in a marriage is just not living in reality and doesn't know much about men.



Simple.


- men are wired for sex. We want sex with our woman often, period.

- woman are wired to be desired, chased, that they're sexy from us guys.

- men are like light switches, on / off.

- women are like ovens, need time to preheat and some take a very long time.....


It's a circle. If men don't get the sex they need, they get angry frustrated and withdraw. If woman aren't desired, chased and sought after, they get upset.

Neither should deny the other and you won't have this problem all over TAM.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

CuddleBug said:


> Neither should deny the other and you won't have this problem all over TAM.


Simple wisdom, but so true. If your spouse needs something from you, and the demand is not unreasonable, you just do it. This is how you treat people you love. You don't ask questions about it, you just comply.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Tatsuhiko said:


> Simple wisdom, but so true. If your spouse needs something from you, and the demand is not unreasonable, you just do it. This is how you treat people you love. You don't ask questions about it, you just comply.


Very true...
but...
two people may have very different thresholds for what they consider "unreasonable."


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> Same boat here. Short of divorce my wifee won't get it or change either.
> 
> 
> Its sad that in 2017 ladies today still think that their men don't want sex much when married......that's either extremely naive, sheltered upbringing, only thinking about themselves LD.
> ...


I don't enjoy being picky, but this rubbed me the wrong way, due to the huge generalization/stereotype that keeps getting perpetuated with comments like this. Not all men want sex with their woman, often. There are a huge percentage of men who make a relationship or marriage sexless or near sexless. Not all men are like light switches. Many men, as well as women, are LD.


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## Jay-nzo (Sep 18, 2017)

I don't think you right about your wife doesn't want sex. I have almost same problem as you. we been married for about 20 yrs with two kid 17 and 14. Lately I asking for sex all the time and my wife refuse most of it. I found out that she worry more on finance and getting tire after work, Ladies when they tired they just don't want anything, if man keep asking for sex there will be a fight.
I have been in that situation for few years, sometimes I really want to have sex with someone else. most of time I just play myself and thinking about man. I am almost become gay as I really think I am.
Sometime I told her that if you don't give me sex I will find someone to have sex with,but that not work and not even change anything.
Recently our life was changed in positive direction, we make love every other day. I don't know what make her changing.
I did do something. I don't ask for sex only do it when my wife wants it. Everyday in the morning when she at work I send her text massage on her break asking something and then I talk about sex, and even send her my naked picture on bed. when we alone in the kitchen or anywhere in the house I try to teasing her touch this, touch that. I use any chance I have to talk about sex. then we used to it, my wife starting join every times I play. on few times we have sex after that.
Lately it becomes regular we both turn on when play then sex...Now she knows sex is fun. we both happy and get our life back together... Try it you got nothing to lose. The marriage is so important for the kid...Don't force to have sex, just go slow when you have a chance. Good luck


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

Jay-nzo said:


> I don't think you right about your wife doesn't want sex. I have almost same problem as you. we been married for about 20 yrs with two kid 17 and 14. Lately I asking for sex all the time and my wife refuse most of it. I found out that she worry more on finance and getting tire after work, Ladies when they tired they just don't want anything, if man keep asking for sex there will be a fight.
> 
> I have been in that situation for few years, sometimes I really want to have sex with someone else. most of time I just play myself and thinking about man. I am almost become gay as I really think I am.
> 
> ...




You are an exception.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I know my wife doesn't believe how important it is. She would only understand it if I divorced her. No amount of words make any difference.


What HAVE you done? There are posts on this board of dejection where the poster is unwilling to do ANYTHING since they *shouldn't have to*. That seems terribly ineffective but there it is. Have you read Passionate Marriage? Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? Have you suggested counseling, and when she refuses, have you gone yourself?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I've explained it to her on 3 different occasions in 3 different ways. First two times were very general. The last time I was very specific and direct. She made it clear that she did not think th. at what I wanted was reasonable that needing to have sex that often (2x/week) would make her unhappy.

Note that the last time I had to give a specific frequency because she thinks that every couple of weeks unless something important (like a new book or TV show comes up) is perfectly reasonable. 

I have no interest in sex under threat or as a trade for other things. I'd rather pay call girls - at least they would be happy with the financial part of the transaction. 

My wife's excuse always involves feeling poorly. So even though she isn't really sick, who wants to have sex with someone who claims to be sick. 

She is unable to enjoy passionate or frequent sex. From everything I can tell, that is just how she is wired and it won't change. I can stay married with the sex life that I have, or I can divorce and get a good sex life somewhere else. 







NobodySpecial said:


> What HAVE you done? There are posts on this board of dejection where the poster is unwilling to do ANYTHING since they *shouldn't have to*. That seems terribly ineffective but there it is. Have you read Passionate Marriage? Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? Have you suggested counseling, and when she refuses, have you gone yourself?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Then making sure you are doing 50% of the work is essential. Tidying, cooking and sometimes caring for kids doesn't seem like a 50% load share especially if you feel it is "for her". You don't have to say it for us to know that either.
> 
> It's an important thing not just for sex but for the relationship as a whole. _Chores do not get you sex_ but you can sure bet that if your wife feels you aren't pulling your weight because it's your responsibility she is less likely to want to sleep with you.
> 
> ...


When your heart melts...I am all eyes.

It is an Annual thing in Canada...

People from all over the Province come to witness this Rite.

This Rite of Yours. 

A right-to-center motion. 

From a heart eclipsed to one exposed, again warmed by this Sun.

In truth, not warmed....a reasoned light goes on in the attic. And the footsteps out
of that unpleasant place are made possible by reflection if not light. It is not capitulation that you fear, it
is that Truth that you do not stand alone. You stand with many, most on the other 
side. And this I know...you curtsy, not bow to that aforementioned reason.

So much to offer, so little you spend, this heart of yours held so close to your chest.

Lest other's see you as cranky-weak, as others do now; you harden your imperative resolve.

Yes, rather...... you see, they see you as cold and a bitter brew of dark Tea.

Turn that dark bile into some sweet drink. Like moths into your sweetened flame they will come.

Feminine guile is a myth, it is feminine insecurity peeking out. 

Out from behind the hidden mud flap.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I've explained it to her on 3 different occasions in 3 different ways. First two times were very general. The last time I was very specific and direct. She made it clear that she did not think th. at what I wanted was reasonable that needing to have sex that often (2x/week) would make her unhappy.
> 
> Note that the last time I had to give a specific frequency because she thinks that every couple of weeks unless something important (like a new book or TV show comes up) is perfectly reasonable.
> 
> ...


So IIRC you have been married a long time. And in that time, the depth and breadth of you communication about this supposed need is 3 conversations covering very little actual emotional detail. How about them books that are frequently mentioned or counseling?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Speaking as a Moderator:
> 
> The* broad* generalizations about men and women stops now. It is a thread jack.


I bit my tongue so hard it retreated to the other side of my intestinal courage tract.

Hiding and laying in the dark. So no knife come swinging and cutting.

A knife cutting a *Broad* Swath, leaving all my posts lopped short.

Even the posts that hold intact, my Wisdom teeth.


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## quarterafterone (Jul 30, 2017)

You are in a marriage and sex absolutely should be expected. If sex is disappearing from a marriage that once had good sex & intimacy something is very wrong. One suggestion - after that length of time perhaps she's fallen out of love with you. Another suggestion - it could just simply be she is just too darn tired to feel "in the mood", maybe she feels like having sex with you is just one more tiring chore. Living in a sexless marriage - I do not suggest it. Get help before it destroys your marriage. Or get out before it destroys you as a person. As for how to get help or get out? I cant say I haven't figured that out for myself yet.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There have been many smaller discussions. The problem is that if she doesn't accept it as a problem, its very difficult to make progress. 

I could insist on counseling and she would probably go. In the end though, even if she could be convinced to have regular sex, she wouldn't enjoy it, and duty sex isn't interesting to me. 




NobodySpecial said:


> So IIRC you have been married a long time. And in that time, the depth and breadth of you communication about this supposed need is 3 conversations covering very little actual emotional detail. How about them books that are frequently mentioned or counseling?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

uhtred said:


> There have been many smaller discussions. The problem is that if she doesn't accept it as a problem, its very difficult to make progress.
> 
> 
> 
> I could insist on counseling and she would probably go. In the end though, even if she could be convinced to have regular sex, she wouldn't enjoy it, and duty sex isn't interesting to me.




The problem is that your actions make it seem like it's not a big deal despite your words. I'm sure she's confused and not convinced it's as big an issue as you say. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> There have been many smaller discussions. The problem is that if she doesn't accept it as a problem, its very difficult to make progress.
> 
> I could insist on counseling and she would probably go. In the end though, even if she could be convinced to have regular sex, she wouldn't enjoy it, and duty sex isn't interesting to me.


So if this were me, and my husband assumed he knew how my response to his needs was going to go, specifically that I would fail in an attempt understand where he was coming from, instead defending my position, I would be pretty hurt.

Somewhere in the back of your mind you recognize the value having the right goal, a full and satisfying sexual relationship WITH your wife. Yet, the focus remains on frequency, which, as you get by now, I don't think is not effective problem solving goal. My husband always says, when you are starving, a saltine looks delicious. So that goal being forefront in your head makes a lot of sense.

I think it is a big mistake to throw up your hands and give up, assuming you know that mental and emotional growth cannot happen. You cannot see the "end" of a journey like counseling or exploration of any kind before you set your feet on the path. This is not helpful since the known is always less scary than the unknown. But the bottom line is anyone whose communication is all words and no action is indicating by their weak communication that it is, in fact, *not* an important topic. Says the woman who has asked her husband for certain things a bazillion times. He does not "get" it until I stop asking and start acting. It is pretty normal to see someone's motivation where they are willing to ACT.

Just my two cents.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

uhtred said:


> I've explained it to her on 3 different occasions in 3 different ways. First two times were very general. The last time I was very specific and direct. She made it clear that she did not think th. at what I wanted was reasonable that needing to have sex that often (2x/week) would make her unhappy.
> 
> Note that the last time I had to give a specific frequency because she thinks that every couple of weeks unless something important (like a new book or TV show comes up) is perfectly reasonable.
> 
> ...


Bingo! All you need to do is choose your priorities and act in accordance with them. Being in an unfulfilling marriage may or may not be a deal breaker, depending on your perspective. 



uhtred said:


> There have been many smaller discussions. The problem is that if she doesn't accept it as a problem, its very difficult to make progress.
> 
> I could insist on counseling and she would probably go. In the end though, even if she could be convinced to have regular sex, she wouldn't enjoy it, and duty sex isn't interesting to me.


She doesn't believe that you would leave over this so she isn't motivated to change her actions. Guys that project that they would walk don't have to deal with these issues because it makes their women understand it is really a priority item and part of the relationship agreement. The best thing anyone in this situation can learn to do is advocate for themselves and enforce boundaries. *When your actions are congruent with your desires and goals, you'll have a much easier time getting your needs met*.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

When you stop asking and start acting, what do you do?

As far as concentrating on "frequency", I've also talked about quality. Both are a big problem. She rarely wants sex and when she does, she usually starts by saying "I'm pretty tired, so just something quick today". The range of things she is able (or willing) to do has decreased to almost nothing. 






NobodySpecial said:


> So if this were me, and my husband assumed he knew how my response to his needs was going to go, specifically that I would fail in an attempt understand where he was coming from, instead defending my position, I would be pretty hurt.
> 
> Somewhere in the back of your mind you recognize the value having the right goal, a full and satisfying sexual relationship WITH your wife. Yet, the focus remains on frequency, which, as you get by now, I don't think is not effective problem solving goal. My husband always says, when you are starving, a saltine looks delicious. So that goal being forefront in your head makes a lot of sense.
> 
> ...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I'm willing to live in a marriage with bad sex in return for the other positives.

I do understand that threatening to leave would probably work, but I don't see how that wouldn't just result in unhappy pressured sex. 




Bananapeel said:


> Bingo! All you need to do is choose your priorities and act in accordance with them. Being in an unfulfilling marriage may or may not be a deal breaker, depending on your perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> She doesn't believe that you would leave over this so she isn't motivated to change her actions. Guys that project that they would walk don't have to deal with these issues because it makes their women understand it is really a priority item and part of the relationship agreement. The best thing anyone in this situation can learn to do is advocate for themselves and enforce boundaries. *When your actions are congruent with your desires and goals, you'll have a much easier time getting your needs met*.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> When you stop asking and start acting, *what do you do*?
> 
> As far as concentrating on "frequency", I've also talked about quality. Both are a big problem. She rarely wants sex and when she does, she usually starts by saying "I'm pretty tired, so just something quick today". The range of things she is able (or willing) to do has decreased to almost nothing.


Are we having a little subconscious denial going on? I have mentioned several things to do.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

uhtred said:


> I'm willing to live in a marriage with bad sex in return for the other positives.
> 
> I do understand that threatening to leave would probably work, but I don't see how that wouldn't just result in unhappy pressured sex.


As long as you are OK with this arrangement, I think you are following a proper course of action. It's a lot harder to break a pattern than it is to establish a different one from the beginning, so I get where you are coming from and understand the choices you are making. 

I was fortunate that I learned my mistake early on with my first LTR (she was sexually controlling and LD) and learned to identify women that I'm not compatible with before a relationship ever got serious. So all the women that I date for any length of time have awesome and frequent sex with me. My philosophy is that if a woman is really turned on and likes me, then she'll be thrilled to unleash her wild side. If she is more restricted and controlling in bed, then I'm not turning her on enough and I'll pull the plug on the relationship. A lot of guys could implement that early in their relationships and avoid sexual mismatches and frustration.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I'm willing to live in a marriage with bad sex in return for the other positives.
> 
> I do understand that threatening to leave would probably work, but I don't see how that wouldn't just result in unhappy pressured sex.


You don't need to lead with threatening to leave. You certainly should not threaten that which you are unwilling to do. That kind of game playing is the death knell of any kind of trust. Aside from just being unethical.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> There are posts on this board of dejection where the poster is unwilling to do ANYTHING since they *shouldn't have to*.





NobodySpecial said:


> I think it is a big mistake to throw up your hands and give up, assuming you know that mental and emotional growth cannot happen...... But the bottom line is anyone whose communication is all words and no action is indicating by their weak communication that it is, in fact, *not* an important topic.


This is my primary concern as well.

There's a feeling (by both genders) about sex (and other topics) that the partner should just KNOW what to do and that if you have to tell them what you need and they subsequently do it, then it's not voluntary or natural and, therefore, not wanted.

This attitude would lead to no possible growth in the relationship at all and probably just result in a slow downward spiral.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

uhtred said:


> When you stop asking and start acting, what do you do?
> 
> As far as concentrating on "frequency", I've also talked about quality. Both are a big problem. She rarely wants sex and when she does, she usually starts by saying "I'm pretty tired, so just something quick today". The range of things she is able (or willing) to do has decreased to almost nothing.


This is her way of expressing that you don't turn her on/excite her. It's a perpetual test of your confidence and assertiveness, and you need to pass it to excite her. 

Next time your wife tries that, how about some dirty talk? Tell her "Sorry, wife, but you aren't my cum dumpster tonight, you are *MY *****, and I'm going to enjoy every inch of your body. Now go put on [favorite skimpy outfit] and wait for me on the bed." And look her straight in the eye with confidence when you say it.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> This is her way of expressing that you don't turn her on/excite her.


This is a HORRIBLE assumption! Horrible! 



> It's a perpetual test of your confidence and assertiveness, and you need to pass it to excite her.


There are many, many people who are not even clued in to the concept of excitement in marriage. Listen to your WIFE and challenge her WITHIN the boundaries of what you learn.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

She is absolutely not into dirty talk. (which is fine, its not really my thing either). 

There are women who would respond positively to that approach but there are many who would not. 




Bananapeel said:


> This is her way of expressing that you don't turn her on/excite her. It's a perpetual test of your confidence and assertiveness, and you need to pass it to excite her.
> 
> Next time your wife tries that, how about some dirty talk? Tell her "Sorry, wife, but you aren't my cum dumpster tonight, you are *MY *****, and I'm going to enjoy every inch of your body. Now go put on [favorite skimpy outfit] and wait for me on the bed." And look her straight in the eye with confidence when you say it.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> This is a HORRIBLE assumption! Horrible!
> 
> It's also absolutely correct.
> 
> There are many, many people who are not even clued in to the concept of excitement in marriage. Listen to your WIFE and challenge her WITHIN the boundaries of what you learn.


You have a feminine way of thinking about this. I am sharing a man's perspective that has avoided these problems in nearly all of his life's relationships.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> You have a feminine way of thinking about this. I am sharing a man's perspective that has avoided these problems in nearly all of his life's relationships.


Wait wait. You are saying you know a feminine way of thinking about something better than someone who is actually female? Thanks for mansplaining. I will make sure DH knows to ask you the next time he needs to know my motivation. Oh wait, he already knows how to ascertain my motivation.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> This is her way of expressing that you don't turn her on/excite her. It's a perpetual test of your confidence and assertiveness, and you need to pass it to excite her.
> 
> Next time your wife tries that, how about some dirty talk? Tell her "Sorry, wife, but you aren't my cum dumpster tonight, you are *MY *****, and I'm going to enjoy every inch of your body. Now go put on [favorite skimpy outfit] and wait for me on the bed." And look her straight in the eye with confidence when you say it.


For the record, if that was my DH's approach when I was still a result of my social and familial expectations, I'd would have hidden out in the kitchen with the world's biggest headache. A person's head has to be ready for something like that for it to be effective. Maybe that would be a good approach for someone who had lost their mojo. It would not work for someone who never knew they had any.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Spitfire said:


> This is pretty much exactly what I've gone through only I'm 25 years married. I can only tell you that things most likely won't change. At least they haven't for me and I've tried numerous things. The resentment will build up. If you stop initiating to give her space you won't get any but maybe once per month. She'll initiate eventually to keep you around but that's it. When you do have sex she may even say "That was great. We have to do this more often!"? Then you'll initiate and get rejected repeatedly and the cycle will continue. There's not much hope for change in my experience.


I agree with this, except that I'm a woman who went through this with my husband. He was a 41 year old virgin when we met, and I assumed that since he was older when he lost his virginity, that he would want to make up for lost time. He did for a bit, and we had sex every time we saw each other for the first few months of our relationship. Then life happened, and things got busy, and we got on a once a week schedule. It got so that just wasn't working, and I tried talking to him about this numerous times with arguments almost every time. So, I gave up. At the end, before we separated, our sex life was awful. It really didn't change much since we had gotten married, and I just resigned myself to a life of mediocre sex at best. I lost my drive, which for a woman, is quite high. But, I now have that desire back again with a vengeance. I just have to find someone to release that pent up energy on now! 

So I guess the long and short of it is this: is your wife willing to hear you out? Like, really listen to what you're saying? How does she react when you take the reins and show initiative? Have you told her that if your sex life doesn't improve, you worry that you will start looking elsewhere? When I was married, I broached an open marriage, which H didn't go for. I also said that if things (sex wasn't our only issue) didn't improve, I worried that we wouldn't make it. It fell on deaf ears, and of course, we separated. I'm not saying that separation is what you need to do, but your wife DOES need to actively listen to you and your concerns.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> Wait wait. You are saying you know a feminine way of thinking about something better than someone who is actually female? Thanks for mansplaining. I will make sure DH knows to ask you the next time he needs to know my motivation. Oh wait, he already knows how to ascertain my motivation.


That's seriously the debate tactic you are going to use? Twisting words around and changing inferences...:scratchhead:

My advice isn't about how a woman is thinking, it's about how a man has avoided that situation. Those are not synonymous. I have a feeling there might be a timeout coming for one or both of us, so I'm not going to continue to address anything other than the main point of this thread. Feel free to chime in with a last word, if you need it.


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

Ursula said:


> Spitfire said:
> 
> 
> > This is pretty much exactly what I've gone through only I'm 25 years married. I can only tell you that things most likely won't change. At least they haven't for me and I've tried numerous things. The resentment will build up. If you stop initiating to give her space you won't get any but maybe once per month. She'll initiate eventually to keep you around but that's it. When you do have sex she may even say "That was great. We have to do this more often!"? Then you'll initiate and get rejected repeatedly and the cycle will continue. There's not much hope for change in my experience.
> ...


I've told her many times that our sex life is unsatisfactory. I've tried scheduling days. For instance, I've got Monday-Wednesday to initiate and she's got Thursday- Sunday. She would "forget" her days. I've tried date nights. Frankly I'm tired of being the only one trying. She's not into me or whatever. I focus on my own things and don't initiate at all anymore. Once per month she'll buy me a 6 pack when she gets groceries and that's her signal that she's available lmao. If we do have sex that once per month she'll say it was great and then get up and go in another room to watch tv lol. Who does that? Totally unfulfilling for me. I'll ask why she does this and she'll say she's wide awake now. But if I get up and leave afterwards she'll be asleep in 10 minutes. It's just a bunch of bs that I'm tired of dealing with. My choice is to wait 5 more years until my youngest is 18 and then divorce her. She'll be 56 with a $8,000 dollar per year income. Good luck with that!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Regarding the last line in the above post, is she's 56 and earns 8k a year income and you have been married a long time, you will be required to help support her. You sound not nicely gleeful at her age and income predicament.


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

She's had much higher paying jobs that she's quit. She'll probably be getting a sizable inheritance too. Any sort of spousal support is pretty unlikely. Not really gleeful about it. I think it would be more a sense of relief.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I don't enjoy being picky, but this rubbed me the wrong way, due to the huge generalization/stereotype that keeps getting perpetuated with comments like this. Not all men want sex with their woman, often. There are a huge percentage of men who make a relationship or marriage sexless or near sexless. Not all men are like light switches. Many men, as well as women, are LD.




I know many couples were are only living together, common law and married. 30's, 40s, 50's.


Only a few are the ladies complaining their men have lower sex drives but there definitely are some.


Vast majority though are the guys complaining their ladies aren't in the mood much.


Remember, men are like light switches and women are like ovens.


Could be the reason some guys are LD to sexless, their ladies are large and they don't find them hot but don't want to say that and hurt their feelings......and vise versa, guys are overweight and their ladies are hot and the guys are insecure and don't want sex much. Yes, being fit versus very overweight has a huge impact.


Could be the guys work long hours and they're just tired and exhausted. Working an 8 hour day versus 12 hour day makes a big difference.


Could be the lady is a stay at home mom and her man works long hours, he's exhausted and they're financially tight. Stress would do this.


Stereotypes come from many examples of couples going through similar experiences and enough of these then become the stereotypes.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Stereotype much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Spitfire said:


> I've told her many times that our sex life is unsatisfactory. I've tried scheduling days. For instance, I've got Monday-Wednesday to initiate and she's got Thursday- Sunday. She would "forget" her days. I've tried date nights. Frankly I'm tired of being the only one trying. *She's not into me or whatever*.


Yeah, that IS a tough one. I wonder how often finding out THAT reality/truth is a reason people don't want to expand their comfortable yet unsatisfying conversation.




> I focus on my own things and don't initiate at all anymore. Once per month she'll buy me a 6 pack when she gets groceries and that's her signal that she's available lmao. If we do have sex that once per month she'll say it was great and then get up and go in another room to watch tv lol. Who does that? Totally unfulfilling for me. I'll ask why she does this and she'll say she's wide awake now. But if I get up and leave afterwards she'll be asleep in 10 minutes. It's just a bunch of bs that I'm tired of dealing with. My choice is to wait 5 more years until my youngest is 18 and then divorce her. She'll be 56 with a $8,000 dollar per year income. Good luck with that!


Is there some benefit to your daughter to being raised in a cold household? An honest question, not a judgement.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> The problem is that your actions make it seem like it's not a big deal despite your words. I'm sure she's confused and not convinced it's as big an issue as you say.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I sure am (confused that is), and I don't even have a dog in the fight.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sounds familiar. I don't understand it - why would someone say that they enjoy sex, talk about wanting more sex, then not act on it?

My wife is very similar. Each time she will talk about how long its been and how much she misses sex. She will afterwards say how good it was and how we should do it more often, sometimes making specific plans. 

If I ever call her on it, there is always some specific reason why its been so long *this* time, but it will be better soon.

Other than venting here, I've stopped worrying, things won't change. I can have a nearly sexless but otherwise great marriage. I can cheat, or I can divorce. Clear choices. 




Spitfire said:


> I've told her many times that our sex life is unsatisfactory. I've tried scheduling days. For instance, I've got Monday-Wednesday to initiate and she's got Thursday- Sunday. She would "forget" her days. I've tried date nights. Frankly I'm tired of being the only one trying. She's not into me or whatever. I focus on my own things and don't initiate at all anymore. Once per month she'll buy me a 6 pack when she gets groceries and that's her signal that she's available lmao. If we do have sex that once per month she'll say it was great and then get up and go in another room to watch tv lol. Who does that? Totally unfulfilling for me. I'll ask why she does this and she'll say she's wide awake now. But if I get up and leave afterwards she'll be asleep in 10 minutes. It's just a bunch of bs that I'm tired of dealing with. My choice is to wait 5 more years until my youngest is 18 and then divorce her. She'll be 56 with a $8,000 dollar per year income. Good luck with that!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> There have been many smaller discussions. The problem is that if she doesn't *accept it as a problem*, its very difficult to make progress.


It isn't a problem FOR HER. There is a total difference in recognizing a problem for oneself and accepting a problem for one's partner. The motivation is totally different.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Spitfire said:


> I've told her many times that our sex life is unsatisfactory. I've tried scheduling days. For instance, I've got Monday-Wednesday to initiate and she's got Thursday- Sunday. She would "forget" her days. I've tried date nights. Frankly I'm tired of being the only one trying. She's not into me or whatever. I focus on my own things and don't initiate at all anymore. Once per month she'll buy me a 6 pack when she gets groceries and that's her signal that she's available lmao. If we do have sex that once per month she'll say it was great and then get up and go in another room to watch tv lol. Who does that? Totally unfulfilling for me. I'll ask why she does this and she'll say she's wide awake now. But if I get up and leave afterwards she'll be asleep in 10 minutes. It's just a bunch of bs that I'm tired of dealing with. My choice is to wait 5 more years until my youngest is 18 and then divorce her. She'll be 56 with a $8,000 dollar per year income. Good luck with that!


My husband's signal was closing the bedroom blinds. You sound much like I did at the end of it all: focusing on your own things, not initiating. I would still sit her down and explain to her the gravity of the situation, and what she's set to lose in a few years if she doesn't start contributing in the sex department. She may not get the gravity, but then, she may be like my STBXH, and just be really blind, even if you DO sit her down. I recently got an email from H stating that he didn't grasp the gravity until now, even though I had tried talking to him numerous times. If that's the case, I would say that you don't have much hope, but if she really does get it, keep trying, even if it takes a therapist to show you the way.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

uhtred said:


> I do understand that threatening to leave would probably work, but I don't see how that wouldn't just result in unhappy pressured sex.


It does not have to turn out that way.

If you explain that the marriage is unsustainable like this, and she knows you mean it, she can work on resolving whatever obstacles to a good sex life that may exist. If she decides to be a martyr and grit her teeth without fixing anything, that is on her.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

@uhtred why not just start going to counseling yourself, in order to unpack all of this stuff with a pro. Talk about how to achieve more happiness given the conditions. Maybe the C will have suggestions that none of us or you have thought of before. Not about getting her to have more sex per se, but just any good suggestions that add to your happiness.

Also maybe if she knows you are going she will show interest in why you are going and then you could suggest MC, too.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> @uhtred why not just start going to counseling yourself, in order to unpack all of this stuff with a pro. Talk about how to achieve more happiness given the conditions. Maybe the C will have suggestions that none of us or you have thought of before. Not about getting her to have more sex per se, but just any good suggestions that add to your happiness.
> 
> Also maybe if she knows you are going she will show interest in why you are going and then you could suggest MC, too.


Winner, winner, chicken dinner.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> @uhtred why not just start going to counseling yourself, in order to unpack all of this stuff with a pro. Talk about how to achieve more happiness given the conditions. Maybe the C will have suggestions that none of us or you have thought of before. Not about getting her to have more sex per se, but just any good suggestions that add to your happiness.
> 
> Also maybe if she knows you are going she will show interest in why you are going and then you could suggest MC, too.


This exact thought has crossed my mind.

As a stereotypical man who takes pride in being self sufficient, free of needs, and able to conquer any problem on my own, the idea of seeking outside help, especially for something so personal, is hard to accept.

But I really can do so in spite of myself. The more difficult barrier to overcome is financial. Not that I can't afford it--I can...very easily...it would be the smallest of blips on our budget...

...but...

...my wife is even more frugal than I. She would definitely have a problem with an outlay for something she doesn't even think is a problem in the first place. And there's no guarantee of success to boot. May as well take the same amount of money and buy lotto tickets...or simply skip the middleman and just flush it straight down the toilet.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> This exact thought has crossed my mind.
> 
> As a stereotypical man who takes pride in being self sufficient, free of needs, and able to conquer any problem on my own, the idea of seeking outside help, especially for something so personal, is hard to accept.
> 
> ...




I’m thinking that rocking the boat by spending money on something she doesn’t want would be good. Your desires matter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I’m thinking that rocking the boat by spending money on something she doesn’t want would be good. Your desires matter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, that certainly makes sense.

I have yet to see the logical approach actually yield the expected results on this front though.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Having read way too many of these threads, I predict that if you do anything but lay down the law, you will be back here in another few months telling us how it hasn't improved.

And what I mean by "lay down the law" is tell her that you are going to have sex on a regular basis (twice a week, or whatever you will accept). It can be with her, or with someone else (i.e., your next wife). She gets to pick one of those.

Then you have to stick to your guns.

Otherwise you are going to spend the rest of your life in hell.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The "with you or with someone else" is an interesting approach. Given how some people feel about infidelity though it feels pretty similar to "sex or divorce". Would you actually cheat before you would divorce if your wife wasn't willing to have enough, or good sex? (serous question, I've thought about both options). 




tech-novelist said:


> Having read way too many of these threads, I predict that if you do anything but lay down the law, you will be back here in another few months telling us how it hasn't improved.
> 
> And what I mean by "lay down the law" is tell her that you are going to have sex on a regular basis (twice a week, or whatever you will accept). It can be with her, or with someone else (i.e., your next wife). She gets to pick one of those.
> 
> ...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> One thing stood out, you won't grab her boobs and butt and bits anymore. Is this how you were initiating sex before? Not likely much of a turn on for her if it was.
> 
> How often do you go on dates and have alone time? Once every few weeks isn't enough.


Yeah the good old 'left breast, right breast and grab down there' is a real turn off. Remember it is the journey not the destination for her.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

uhtred said:


> The "with you or with someone else" is an interesting approach. Given how some people feel about infidelity though it feels pretty similar to "sex or divorce". Would you actually cheat before you would divorce if your wife wasn't willing to have enough, or good sex? (serous question, I've thought about both options).


I wouldn't cheat. If my wife refused to have a reasonable amount and quality of sex with me when she was physically capable of doing so, I would tell her "If I wanted a roommate I could find one. You're my wife, and that means we have sex on a regular basis assuming we're both healthy enough to do it."

Fortunately I have never been put in that position, even with my otherwise not-very-cooperative ex-wife (when we were married, of course).


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Sounds like you are married to a classic refuser. Refusers are masters of stringing you along and avoiding sex. At some point they decide to give you reset sex. Reset sex is done to wipe back the ticking clock of sexless weeks and keep you quiet for the next month or two. It also ensures in their minds that you are not going elsewhere for it. In the meanwhile they will think of all the little excuses of getting out of sex that really would not surprise many here anymore. Whilst all this is going on they are living their cosy little life with you paying the bills, doing house chores, and providing comfortably for them.

Do a 180 asap. Make it known that this behaviour is unacceptable to you anymore. If you pay the bills, help out with housework, stop doing it. Seperate finances and insist she pays for half. This will send a loud and clear message to her. She will most likely get very upset initially but you can tell her you will fulfill her expectations when she starts to meet yours.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

So you would divorce?



tech-novelist said:


> I wouldn't cheat. If my wife refused to have a reasonable amount and quality of sex with me when she was physically capable of doing so, I would tell her "If I wanted a roommate I could find one. You're my wife, and that means we have sex on a regular basis assuming we're both healthy enough to do it."
> 
> Fortunately I have never been put in that position, even with my otherwise not-very-cooperative ex-wife (when we were married, of course).


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

It can change. Create a bit of jealousy, let her know subtly can she has to meet your needs or else... but be very subtle. Let her know very directly that you desire her and only her. Make a schedule, yeah it's not romantic but it'll be worth it. Say, how about we make love 3 nights a week, what nights are better for you? How about a BJ once a week, maybe Wednesday, that'll give me some to look forward to honey. This worked for me. There was a time in 2011 that I stopped initiating just to see how long it would take for her to notice or for her to initiate. We did it on New Year's Eve, then I stopped asked my and we didn't do it until Valentines Day. I mentioned but didn't make an big deal of it, I said, wow I cannot even remember the last time we did it, but I did. She said It hasn't been long maybe a couple of weeks, to which I replied, oh I remember now, we did it New Year's Eve, so in fact we have not had sex all year until now. silence that followed. I acted like I didn't care. Just casual and cool. She said I'm sorry. I said it's alright, but you know I'd like to do it everyday, maybe we could do it 3 nights per week. She agreed. Over the years I've added a BJ per week and anal ever three months. Now I'm very happy sexually. And she is too. She didn't realize it though.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

uhtred said:


> So you would divorce?


If it came to that, yes. Why would I want to live with a woman who refused to have sex with me when she was capable of doing so?

I don't expect that ever to happen though.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You have probably never been with someone who is naturally LD. But yes, there are women (and men) who would rather divorce than have regular sex. 



tech-novelist said:


> If it came to that, yes. Why would I want to live with a woman who refused to have sex with me when she was capable of doing so?
> 
> I don't expect that ever to happen though.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

uhtred said:


> You have probably never been with someone who is naturally LD. But yes, there are women (and men) who would rather divorce than have regular sex.


That is their choice, of course.

And it is my choice not to be married to someone like that.


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