# Ptsd?



## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

I thought this might make a good topic, but I am going to leave out a few details lest someone recognize me.

A few years ago I was diagnosed with a life threatening illness, and was sent in for an immediate procedure. Within a couple of weeks I had another procedure, then when that one didn't work out, a third. I am thinking that it was a good year before I was considered "stable". 

About two years after that, I was sent to the ER again for something unrelated. They caught it just in the nick of time. That was one of the times that I thought that I just might die. Finally, in 2008, I lost my job. I was out of work for some time and ended up losing my home.

I have recovered (somewhat) from all that, after having gone through some therapy and taking anti-depressants. Wife and I have talked about this and she thinks I had PTSD. These were my symptoms:

Depression

Lack of concentration

Inability to remember things, even important things

Hopelessness 

Uncontrollable anger

Substance abuse

Insomnia

Nightmares


...among other things.

Opinions?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

When doctors put you back together, there are some things they cannot mess with. One of these is the effects of oxygen deprivation to the brain. The other is the effect of haivng heart stopped or massively out of natural rhythm during trauma or surgery or due to necessary medications. 

Time does heal but there are things you can do to speed it up. 
Your rehab seems to consist of therapy and meds. 
It would be easy to be assessed for PTSD but there is no substitute for human activity in rehab after trauma. No real shorcuts either. 

How do you feel about drumming? I mean in groups.
There is power in numbers when it comes to setting the rhythm of the heart back in place. The heart controls electrical activity to the brain. It seems this was interrupted and your non-medical life as well, multiple times in a very short period. 

I don't think there is a pure medical solution to these issues.
Have some fun and find something that works.
You could try some drumming and see how it goes.
If you don't like it then it's not like there are nasty side effects other than maybe having had a fun diversion to talk about at the next boring dinner you find yourself at! (Suddenly you might be the life of the party with your adventure...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

PTSD is a clinical diagnosis not an empirical one. It's a judgment call. It doesn't matter what you call it as long as it gets treated.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Hmmm, yes although there is a fine line with the triggering noises.
For instance, yesterday I was heading out to my car and was startled by a very very very loud noise. I dismissed it as nearby fireworks after all it is July 4, to be expected although we have 20 acres here so why sounding so close. Turns out it was a big a** tree falling in our close-in back woods. Wow, it must have been huge and took its time falling, probably took some other trees with it from the sound of it. 

Another time I was dropping my son off at Kindy and hear a loud noice like a machine gun firing in the street. I hustled him back inside and waited a while to make sure all was okay. Some father picking up his kid noticed my reluctance to head back outside and I explained and he laughed and said it was a snowplow, I must have really bad PTSD since we were in a very rural and safe place. Well, the very next day was the day that insane person gunned down a bunch of preschoolers in a similar environment and setting in Scotland. The guy approached me at school the next day and commended me for my rock-solid survival and awareness skills. 

I do look at briefcases left on steps as suspicious material. 

I wouldn't dismiss all PTSD symptoms as being non-productive and undesirable. Being relaxed is one thing but being able to recognize the sound of a tree about to fall on you is not so bad a thing.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Awareness is definitely key, as is staying in shape, making sure you have reduced stress, and enjoying the benefit of having quick reflexes! I once caught a stack of pamphlets mid-air falling from a counter with one hand while talking to the librarian, she was :-o

My H jumps when I would set down a laundry basket at the top of the stairs, even though the only reason I'd go to the basement was laundry, and he heard me clomping up the stairs with a basket or two of laundry. Or he needs to not have the dishwasher or the dryer going at night so that he can be more aware of whatever else is going to sneak out of the 20 acres of woods and grab him. OMG, maybe a porcupine or an owl, look out! Dude, there are no mortars here, not even any Indian attacks left to worry about. I flushed a guy out of the woods a month ago but it turned out he was wandering around enjoying nature and had a baby in his backpack. Oh my, big threat that little CJ, let me tell ya. The kid didn't even puke on me while he was visiting.

Sigh. Yes, treatment for PTSD is a good thing. Ignoring it is not, especially if it is affecting ability to function normally. Sometimes you don't need to know what something is, just do whatever helps the symptoms, especially if it's non-pharm. Although last summer after anaphylaxis, when I was handed low-dose olanzapine off-label use with a hands-up maybethiswillhelp approach from a team of baffled doctors, I did give it a try. Hmmmm, very helpful. But I am doing quite well now without even during a very stressful time with the marriage ending , etc. Sometimes Rx can be useful to remind the brain how it is supposed to function, or could function. Like training wheels or a temporary crutch. No biggie.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Yes, you should always take your own concerns seriously when it comes to bio family you and you alone know how serious that can be. One of the things that really bugged me is that my H told his family I wasn't in touch with my family, I had told him the truth about my bio family, including my insistence at eval for myself to make sure it wasn't some genetic thing but just really really really bad behavior. Well, sure enough my nephew killed my niece point blank with a pistol shooting her twice in the head in front of her kids. Now, okay, there is my reason for restraining orders. As for my brother, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. He packed a hidden gun in his car while he was still a teen, my father once held us at gunpoint in the house from outside...my mother held me at the window to talk to my father and continue her argument (I think she'd been scre*ing around again and got caught) figuring my dad wouldn't pop me one. So I got used as easy protection/sacrifice material by one parent while being aimed at by the other. Meanwhile my brothers were sent downstairs to hide in the basement and to potentially go out the back door through the woods to safety and help. Phhhhhht. But my therapist says I don't have PTSD, since I do have restraining orders, check in with the PD to let them know of the situation with bio family, advise the schools and random grandparents/uncles picking up with a good sob-emergency-story, password use for the kids and me (verbal) for such iffy situations, a good alert dog, etc. In other words, doing all the rational things a normal person would do under abnormal circumstances. I even changed my name, and the judge was like, hey you should change your social security number, too. But after a while, I didn't want to hide. My FOO stays away from me since I am consistent in my response. Murder in the family, having a wake? A funeral? A fundraiser for the poor bereaved grandfather when there is a perfectly good daddy and grandma on the sidelines to take care of the kids plus social security bennies from their working mom....ummmmmm not my problem! I feel bad cause I am not in touch with my grand-niece and nephew, but their grandma knows the story.

Anyway, familiar with PTSD but apparently rock solid nerves. I sleep pretty soundly at night which is probably in part due to the dog and in part due to knowing that everyone dies eventually. Dying in a panic will just add insult to injury, no?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

There are some approaches and strategies that OTHER PEOPLE who live with people who have PTSD must embrace. There are groups and such for that to give them the tips they need. For example, don't give a PTSD a list of things to do in dribs and drabs. Give them a finite list at one shot and don't add to it or change it in any way unless there's something on the list which has to be removed. PTSD's react very poorly to being given bits and pieces of serial demands. 

There's a slew of other things that the people in a PTSD's life have to come to terms with and adjust.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> When doctors put you back together, there are some things they cannot mess with. One of these is the effects of oxygen deprivation to the brain. The other is the effect of haivng heart stopped or massively out of natural rhythm during trauma or surgery or due to necessary medications.
> 
> Time does heal but there are things you can do to speed it up.
> Your rehab seems to consist of therapy and meds.
> ...


It's funny that you should mention the oxygen deprivation thing - I have wondered about that myself, but have not gotten good answers from medical professionals. I do know one thing, and that is that if I listen to my body it will tell me when something is wrong. 

DW and I are embarking on our new "fun" agenda, and it is hard finding time for it all. 

Don't know about the drumming thing - sounds expensive.

Sorry to hear about your relatives - I thought mine were crazy, but I will keep them now, at least they are harmless, for the most part.


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## Lorraine M (Apr 26, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> I've been officially diagnosed with ptsd. I'm with Runs though it really doesn't matter what you call it as long as it gets treated.
> 
> For me the key element in the ptsd diagnosis is triggers (think car backfiring and a veteran thinking he's being shot at).


Living with a husband recently diagnosed with severe depression, anxiety and paranoid episodes. Phsyicals were find except bottomed out Vit D. He had major neck fusions several years ago and I began to wonder if some of his symptoms were induced by the surgery, perhaps compressed arteries, blood vessels, nerves..anything to do with the neck scares me, too close to everything important.

Regaardless, the above quite is accurate. After finally getting husband to doc, actually he went because he thought I had issues and my personality changes were causing his problem, he got with a hopefully good psychiatrist and is on medication (keep in mind he had major insomnia, weight loss, paranoia, horrible symptoms) and he has not been diagnosed with PTSD BUT it all started after our child's sporting event where the coach went ballistic and threw a bag in the locker room, hitting a kid in the face with a ball that fell out and he screamed at the kids the whole game. 

Doc said never undermine the power of something like that to open up a whole can of worms regarding his abusive childhood and starting the dominos...he said it doesn't really matter, and that was backed up by a neighbor who served two tours in our recent war and is still on anti depressants, anti anxiety meds but said 8 monts of diligent talk therapy is what helped her out of the critical stages. Husband is currently in the new, only 2 months diagnsed, stage with constant inconsistency in his behaivor. You do need to eat healthy, stay in shape and reduce stress but bottom line, you've been through a major life changing event and probably should seek some help. Whether its PSTD or not doesn't matter, you have obvious symptoms that need meds and therapy to help. 

Fingers crossed it's nothing physical. I often think our kids coach needs therapy more that husband but that's for his wife to deal with, he's not our kid's coach anymore, but I do wonder if we should request an MRI or some deeper diagnostic tests to see if there was a problem wtih the fusion because what is he's taking meds and in general being crazy and it's something caused and probably going to get worse because of something like scar tissue. Don't stress about a label, see your doc, tell them, and get a referral if you have to. You've had a rough enough time, don't be afraid because you think this is in your mind.

Take care and good luck, and hey, you know something is going on and are able to post here so that's a really good sign!


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Lorraine M said:


> Living with a husband recently diagnosed with severe depression, anxiety and paranoid episodes. Phsyicals were find except bottomed out Vit D. He had major neck fusions several years ago and I began to wonder if some of his symptoms were induced by the surgery, perhaps compressed arteries, blood vessels, nerves..anything to do with the neck scares me, too close to everything important.
> 
> Regaardless, the above quite is accurate. After finally getting husband to doc, actually he went because he thought I had issues and my personality changes were causing his problem, he got with a hopefully good psychiatrist and is on medication (keep in mind he had major insomnia, weight loss, paranoia, horrible symptoms) and he has not been diagnosed with PTSD BUT it all started after our child's sporting event where the coach went ballistic and threw a bag in the locker room, hitting a kid in the face with a ball that fell out and he screamed at the kids the whole game.
> 
> ...


I have had an MRI, physical problems have been taken care of or at least are on some kind of management regimen. 

I am currently in counseling and taking anti-depressants, and for the first time in years it feels as though the fog has lifted. 

DW and I have been talking about some things (like childhood) she thinks I should bring up to the counselor. I might as well, it will give me something to talk about. 

Thanks for the advice.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> There are some approaches and strategies that OTHER PEOPLE who live with people who have PTSD must embrace. There are groups and such for that to give them the tips they need. For example, don't give a PTSD a list of things to do in dribs and drabs. Give them a finite list at one shot and don't add to it or change it in any way unless there's something on the list which has to be removed. PTSD's react very poorly to being given bits and pieces of serial demands.
> 
> There's a slew of other things that the people in a PTSD's life have to come to terms with and adjust.


Lightbulb moment here for me.
My STBXH is very controlling. He works out all the logistics of things like camping trips or climbing multi-pitch and then he doesn't share the info with me. Or he will get me into the car and I'll find out it's a whole hour til we're going to stop for breakfast? He hardly ever discussed plans with me, would just let me know what he was planning to do, then I had to work around it and sometimes juggle because his plans would change. Even menu planning was difficult, he would suddenly decide he wanted to BBQ or to take the kids out somewhere while I worked (my kids), I could never tell which end was up.

I've been taking ballroom dance class to get comfortable being with other people and to learn to trust well normal appropriate trust and also boundary setting and interpersonal awareness and responsibility for myself when with someone else. It's been good. I always laugh when an instructor says to the guys in the class, to remember to lead and send clear signals about what is going to happen next. Then they'll say to the ladies, he's not trying to trick you, he just hasn't learned how to lead. One the one hand I like dancing with one of the male instructors as he is a Gulf War vet drove a tank, he is really good at leading and I can push my limits of dance since I know there is absolutely a lead to follow (he trips up sometimes everyone's human I think he gets distracted by me :rofl. It's good because when you're dancing you really have to just focus on the dance pay attention to yourself and where you are in relations to partner, provide resistance to obtain info about the lead, listen to the music and make sure you're looking in back of your partner if he's going backwards. I really like dancing with the female instructors too because they have more insight due to experience of following of where I am lacking in obtaining information to follow and it's easier for them to correct me from a woman's perspective and tell me some of the social aspects of dancing. Anyway, yes, I am still jumpy but at the point where I can laugh at myself. The dance studio is a safe place. Sometimes people bring their kids and the kids join the class. The practice sessions are social but they are practice sessions. I have buddies both male and female there. If a guy has hand creep I just tell him put your hand lower because if you lead from under my armpit you're gonna tip me over. It's really a good environment for someone recovering from interpersonal trauma (sexual or emotional or other physical types even random stuff that wasn't targeted at them personally) and it is fun. On top of that it builds confidence and reflexes and innate awareness and flow. I'm surprised more therapists don't recommend it.

I was at a pow-wow yesterday (different kind of dancing and music) and there was a girl there hanging out with us at our station. She was a trickster and a couple times she snuck up on me from the side and got me in the neck with a cold little spray from her water bottle. It's funny that someone would pick up on that and know how to tease me in just the right way. I didn't jump or anything. 

About a month ago I was stopped at an intersection and a guy was crossing in front of me, businessman, older in a pink shirt...he stopped in the crosswalk and turned and playfully stuck his tongue out at me and we both laughed. No idea who the guy was. Kinda funny. 

Then I was driving into a parking garage same neighborhood going to dance class and one of my buddies steps out into the street from between parked cars. I wasn't going fast but my reaction was pretty quick. We joked about how I saved his life, it wouldn't be good as 1/3 of our class at the time would have been in hospital and the other 1/3 in the police department. He was in a hurry. I think anyone else driving down that street would have hit him. 

In April when my STBXH was home I had to react to a near head-on crash. In the past I would have had foot shake and been a wreck. I was amazed that I had total recall of the situation and also did not shake or anything. Was able to keep driving and just like, wow, that guy who pulled out into my lane sure looked scared when he veered past me at 50 mph after a near-miss. 

I went out rock climbing a couple weeks ago and was on a climb that was definitely harder than anything I've ever done before, following so on a rope and safe. I had only been out once on an easy climb last year so not really up to speed with climbing. No shake or anything. There is this thing climbers do when they are nervous it is called Elvis-ing. It doesn't happen to me any more. I can control it by letting go in a safe balanced place and shaking my hands out alternately and then whatever feet I can pick up. 

If I did have PTSD it is gone now. I might have had it in the past, I do remember going to the VA in the mid-90's and participated in a PTSD program for sexual abuse victims. The idea was to keep repeating the incident until you got well bored with it? The trouble is, there were too many incidents to go over. In the end, I think just learning how to improve reaction in new situations is better, and to deal with anger and frustration in better ways. Now anger is not bad, it tells you when things are not right. After the incident of unwanted sexual contact with my STBXH in April, I sure was angry. I did hit him the next day, (he's a big guy, 160 pounds, I hit him in the gut knowing he could take it, but definitely venting...I was so mad and felt trapped....) it was over something else but then after I called crisis hotline I blamed it on a new case manager (she was partly to blame too and was removed and replaced with the old one...). Later I realized what he had done to me was very very wrong, I should not have accepted his excuse for doing what he did. We had an agreement to always use condoms for penetration until he can get his vasectomy and checkup and all-clear later after and he slipped it in me unexpectedly during foreplay. I am 47 years old and he could have got me pregnant, I was accepted with a scholarship for a school program that's 3 years long. Not okay. He had followed the agreement up to that point, we had even talked about it with a counselor. The alternative was no sex. Prior to this he had been using withdrawal and then telling me I'd have to have an abortion if I got pregnant. I knew I wouldn't but I kept telling him withdrawal is not satisfying for me and pregnancy wouldn't be the greatest thing either at my age especially since he did not want children. Soooooo much wrong with that relationship. The other thing that set me off is while we were vacationing with the kids I was exhausted and declined an invite for sex in the bathroom (sharing a hotel room) said I'd get up early the next day or he could wake me in the middle of the night then fell asleep right away and woke up 5 minutes later he was groping me. WTF? So, anger is a good thing when it is appropriate. What s*cks is when you are angry and people blame it on mental illness or PMS but it is legitimate anger. That is way different than PTSD.

If I have or had PTSD I am either recovered or recovering. I am way less jumpy now than I was last year. I still am afraid of people to some extent but learning to trust my instinct and be more comfortable around people. Especially men. I've had so many people close to me, including my STBXH just sexualize everything, to the point where I can't have a normal wholesome life. I think that's another reason why dance is good in that respect, it puts it in perspective, instead of denying sexual attraction it gives it a social form that is appropriate and out in the open and celebrated the way it is supposed to be. A beautiful thing, not a control thing or something you have to hide or be ashamed of. I woke up today thinking how nice it is I will live in a place without violent music being put on the CD at home or car without warning, no porn or violent video games on the computer, no war movies on TV on Saturday mornings, no guns being stored next to my dresses in my closet, nobody saying what a great guy he is all composed and in control of himself because he could hit me but won't  but then he goes and rapes me while my guard is down in my own bed and my own marriage where I'm supposed to feel safe? 

I think in some ways PTSD is a struggle with death and mortality. You have fought it off once and stumbled and then get locked in a death grip. At some point you have to stop screaming, listen to the music, get back in step, find your fellow dancers and then dance with death, focus on the dance and accept it, then the fear is contained and you can relax. 

You can't get over PTSD without being fully engaged in your own life. It takes a lot of practice and fumbling and tripping and a good sense of humor and a lot of patience with yourself and also appropriate self-forgiveness.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Parrothead, my kids doc who heard about my oxygen deprivation said that I will build new neural pathways. I think in my case this is good because what with all the history of abuse those old pathways were a big network of psychological maladaptive landmines. Hey, maybe controlled oxygen deprivation would be a viable treatment for PTSD? God works in mysterious ways. I am happy with the new neural pathways I'm building, I'm super-protective of how I spend my time and what I think. Meditation has been good. The oxygen deprivation I think sped up the process of recovery, or sort of forced it, as I was out on a limb and being human, you can't not think, so you have to start thinking with what is left and functional. It is kind of like a rebirth. A baby's connection to the world is formed by how he or she relates to other humans. I got myself in a good place with that, systemmatically removed people from a sphere of influence who were not contributing positively, in dealing with them learned new knee-jerk responses to people inappropriately overstepping boundaries...learned how to invite people in with a smile or body language. Pretty much the whole reflection mimicking thing got re-triggered at a basic level. Having my brain trashed was a good thing. One moment was when I had a team of young psychiatric interns at the foot of my bed, they were from the same place where I went to grad school, and had a clue about how competent I used to be, and I could tell from their faces they were scared, like what happened to me could easily happen to them, too. They were very humane, they could not offer a diagnosis at that time but their concern was a turning point in that they concluded that watchful waiting was a good thing, and trusted me to come back if I got sick again, as I trusted them to be there if I did need to come back. (Months later I was diagnosed with inappropriately/partially treated allergic anaphylaxis.)

I think anyone who has had any kind of surgery especially close to the brain stem needs to fully assess the neurons that connect between the heart and the brain. The heart apparently sends electromagnetic impules to the brain. Not the other way around. To put this in synch or to compensate for it, you can use other people. If you are close to them, they don't even need to stay in the same place, you will still be in synch with them. This is based on actual research. (Watch the movie "I am" for the references, one is Einstein.) 

Drumming is cheap. You can drum with anything. Plus most drumming groups are free. You don't even need to have a drum to go to one, and if you do go, it's likely someone will lend you a drum or even gift you one, which is the best kind of drum to have. If you do get a drum, you can have one made for you by a healing drummer or someone who has spent some time with you. Dont' buy one off the shelf unless you are particularly enamoured with it and absolutely in touch with how it feels. 

I went to a pow-wow yesterday and then was drumming in my sleep, finding my own beat. The funny thing is, I don't drum, I dance. Everyone has their own rhythm, but it's interdependent on everyone else's that they are close to. I think that's called music


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## Lorraine M (Apr 26, 2011)

Good Luck, my husband as well had the workups, but no additional MRI's but did have 2 cervical epidurals. Bottom line, when in that OR, no one outside that room really knows what happened, or who was in there (I've always insisted on sighing the release and adding no one but the phsycian in charge was allowed to do surgery and no sales reps or students were allowed to touch me, just in case, but then I worked in healthcare for 10 years) and whether it's related to it or not, you have to deal with the here and now, unless you know someone in there who can tell you exactly what went down, and as I think you said, even without the hospital, you were on the edge of life so I'm very glad the cloud is lifting. 

My husband said he's starting to feel that way, for the first time in years he wakes up in the morning and isn't the moodiest, foggiest person to be around. But the doc told him it still might be a year or more and as I said, it was confirmed by my neighbor, 8 mos talk therapy, still taking meds. 

Several years ago I sent him to a sleep clinic as I thought a CPAP would help. All it helped was keeping him up an extra hour at night, and feel mroe awake in the morning, even though tests did show sleep apnea.

Regardless, use the meds, bring up the childhood stuff and work through it. It won't be pleasant all the time but it's progress. I had to go as a part of this and for a few appointments I dreaded going into the docs office because I got exhausted thinking about it before hand and then after..then when you think everything through at home...brain exhaustion, but it really helps to work to have the opionions and observations of a professional. Sometimes my doc will say something that seems so simple I want to smack my head like why didn't I think of that, BUT he refuses ot give straight advice unless I flat out tell him that's what I want, by the time I ask I've thought every angle through and need solid advice.

Keep up the good work and do bring up those incidents which may be contributing to this.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Parrothead, my kids doc who heard about my oxygen deprivation said that I will build new neural pathways. I think in my case this is good because what with all the history of abuse those old pathways were a big network of psychological maladaptive landmines. Hey, maybe controlled oxygen deprivation would be a viable treatment for PTSD? God works in mysterious ways. I am happy with the new neural pathways I'm building, I'm super-protective of how I spend my time and what I think. Meditation has been good. The oxygen deprivation I think sped up the process of recovery, or sort of forced it, as I was out on a limb and being human, you can't not think, so you have to start thinking with what is left and functional. It is kind of like a rebirth. A baby's connection to the world is formed by how he or she relates to other humans. I got myself in a good place with that, systemmatically removed people from a sphere of influence who were not contributing positively, in dealing with them learned new knee-jerk responses to people inappropriately overstepping boundaries...learned how to invite people in with a smile or body language. Pretty much the whole reflection mimicking thing got re-triggered at a basic level. Having my brain trashed was a good thing. One moment was when I had a team of young psychiatric interns at the foot of my bed, they were from the same place where I went to grad school, and had a clue about how competent I used to be, and I could tell from their faces they were scared, like what happened to me could easily happen to them, too. They were very humane, they could not offer a diagnosis at that time but their concern was a turning point in that they concluded that watchful waiting was a good thing, and trusted me to come back if I got sick again, as I trusted them to be there if I did need to come back. (Months later I was diagnosed with inappropriately/partially treated allergic anaphylaxis.)
> 
> I think anyone who has had any kind of surgery especially close to the brain stem needs to fully assess the neurons that connect between the heart and the brain. The heart apparently sends electromagnetic impules to the brain. Not the other way around. To put this in synch or to compensate for it, you can use other people. If you are close to them, they don't even need to stay in the same place, you will still be in synch with them. This is based on actual research. (Watch the movie "I am" for the references, one is Einstein.)
> 
> ...


I happen to be an amateur musician myself, perhaps that will suffice, although for some time now I haven't felt much like playing. I have wanted to get a floor drum before but the price tag scared me away!

I know a lot of people don't like organized religion, especially Christianity, but in the course I am currently taking you are asked to pray the monastic breviary (the prayers Christian monks pray) for six weeks. It has been a big help, and I intend to continue as part of my daily regimen. It appears that Phillipians 4:8 is of some value:

_Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things._

Indeed.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Lorraine M said:


> Good Luck, my husband as well had the workups, but no additional MRI's but did have 2 cervical epidurals. Bottom line, when in that OR, no one outside that room really knows what happened, or who was in there (I've always insisted on sighing the release and adding no one but the phsycian in charge was allowed to do surgery and no sales reps or students were allowed to touch me, just in case, but then I worked in healthcare for 10 years) and whether it's related to it or not, you have to deal with the here and now, unless you know someone in there who can tell you exactly what went down, and as I think you said, even without the hospital, you were on the edge of life so I'm very glad the cloud is lifting.
> 
> My husband said he's starting to feel that way, for the first time in years he wakes up in the morning and isn't the moodiest, foggiest person to be around. But the doc told him it still might be a year or more and as I said, it was confirmed by my neighbor, 8 mos talk therapy, still taking meds.
> 
> ...


I have an appointment with my psychologist next week. She is a female, we will see how it goes, but I have been frustrated with her at times for being so clueless about how men think and feel. I think i will take some notes so I don't get sidetracked if she asks a question. I have to force myself to concentrate most of the time. 

Another thing is I son't have the feeling of dread about dying like I used to. That's probably the anti-depressants (AND the prayers!) but that is a huge improvement, too.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Parrothead said:


> I happen to be an amateur musician myself, perhaps that will suffice, although for some time now I haven't felt much like playing. I have wanted to get a floor drum before but the price tag scared me away!
> 
> I know a lot of people don't like organized religion, especially Christianity, but in the course I am currently taking you are asked to pray the monastic breviary (the prayers Christian monks pray) for six weeks. It has been a big help, and I intend to continue as part of my daily regimen. It appears that Phillipians 4:8 is of some value:
> 
> ...


What do you play? Instrument and genre?

I started out on piano and when I found trumpet I was hooked. I played for 3 years and was lead 2nd trumpet in a large high school band my freshman year. Then I moved into an apartment with my mother...went back to piano but it didn't quite click. (My upright jazz was replaced with a nice-looking piece of furniture called a console or something like that, set on carpet instead of wood floor...) Later on I played some violin/fiddle because I liked the in-between sounds. I'm trying to channel a trumpet for myself and lessons again. I'll have to find a practice room somewhere on campus. When the time is right... I really loved the soundtrack to "April in Paris".

I'm a Quaker myself but study Buddhism and meditation. Yesterday I had the book "The Places that Scare You" with me, got to dance class early and was reading. 4 different people came in and the conversation turned to Carlos Castenda. I don't think he ever got the teachings of Don Juan right. He seems to only want it for control which is probably why my STBXH was into him. I like John Perkins better. So, there was a discussion about learning to focus amid distractions, that ranged from driver's ed to rock climbing to dancing...I mentioned distractions on the dance floor being useful for improving focus, whereas my initial inclination was to try to mitigate them or evade them. There is one guy there who is a classmate who is determined to learn to tango. I can definitely say that it takes two to tango  I don't know what he's doing but it's not that. I think he's trying to conquer the dance in order to impress women, in doing that he has forgot all about the other person dancing...even the least little bit of resistance from me to follow the lead (or not) he said I was aggressive. The rest of the story is along the same lines. I think he is coming to dance class for the same reason, to learn limits, so it makes me feel better about setting them. If he found me aggressive where the same action with the instructor met with approval that is not my issue. 

From what I can see the people who are enamoured with Carlos Costaneda all seem to be control freaks and sexual predators. I Wiki'd him and see he is living in a big house with three women in what seems to be some kind of mini cult arrangement. I have no issue with Don Juan or Josh Perkins, but I don't think they're spiritual teachers, just average Joe's who are well-centered and able to communicate it with some general sense of direction.

So I wonder if you are a musician you must have friends you played with. Why not call some up and have them come over to play with you. (Gosh that sounds like something I'd say to my kids!) I am sure they would be touched that you thought to reach out to them to re-boot your beat. If they come to where you live, you will have the music of your friends in your house and that is a good a start as any.

Your therapist...have you discussed your feeling that she misperceives men? My therapist immediately challenged what I said about men...he asked me if I really believed it. Of course I said no. But it would have been an easy black-and-white belief that allowed me to stay in my current situation. 

I woke up this morning realizing that my VA hospital is special. They are really healers. Not doctors. There is something going on there that is beyond medicine. I was right to transfer my care from the other VA hospital where they literally throw medicine at you rather than listen. I would guess it's the administration because there can't be that many differences between the intents of the actual practicioners. Something to think about I guess.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> What do you play? Instrument and genre?
> 
> I started out on piano and when I found trumpet I was hooked. I played for 3 years and was lead 2nd trumpet in a large high school band my freshman year. Then I moved into an apartment with my mother...went back to piano but it didn't quite click. (My upright jazz was replaced with a nice-looking piece of furniture called a console or something like that, set on carpet instead of wood floor...) Later on I played some violin/fiddle because I liked the in-between sounds. I'm trying to channel a trumpet for myself and lessons again. I'll have to find a practice room somewhere on campus. When the time is right... I really loved the soundtrack to "April in Paris".
> 
> ...


I grew up in the 1950's and 1960's, with Ricky Nelson, James Burton, Elvis, and later with Eric Clapton, Buffalo Springfield, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, not to mention all the blues people that inspired a generation like Muddy Waters, B.B. King, Albert Collins, and Johnny Winter, who was Stevie Ray Vaughn before there was a Stevie Ray. Been playing since I was 12. I have a couple of guitars DW got me because she likes my playing so much and if she hears me playing one in the store she wants to buy it. I also have one or two I got on my own - one classical guitar, three electrics, two acoustic steel strings, and a Hawaiian guitar.

I play blues, blues rock, rock, bluegrass, renaissance classical, church hymns, country, country rock, and have even been called upon to do the occasional polka.  (3/4 time is my favorite time signature).

I am a veteran, too, served during that unpleasantness we now call the Vietnam war.

I have often thought about taking dancing lessons to be able to keep up with DW, who was once a singer/actress/dancer, and who, even as a senior citizen, can still cut up the carpeting. 

I have heard of Carlos Costaneda, but I don't know much about him. I have heard it said that he is a Spanish Deepak Chopra, and I don't think much of Deepak Chopra, from the little I have heard from him. 

I am new to this area so I don't know many people to play music with, but in general, I am always playing with beginners, and it's hard to stretch your legs when you are trying to hold the music together yourself.

As for the therapist, no, I haven't said anything to her, maybe I will, but I don't know how to bring it up tactfully. 

Quaker, huh? There are not a whole lot of Quakers around. How does one become a Quaker?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Hmmm, I think you should bring your guitar to your next therapy session and show that she-therapist what a real man is made of.

I think Carlos Castenada was a sex-control-freak fraud who preyed on weak-minded well-endowed (and I don't mean big-busted) women. Everyone I know who swears by his philosophy has been a control-freak sex pervert. 

If you go to where the dancing is, with live music, you will find musicians there. Just go to events, don't they have community bands where you live? Here almost every community has a music group that gets together and in the summer there are free outdoor concerts with dancing every week, a different night of the week in different towns, for people who travel around a bit. 

Or if there is a music school or university near where you live, check there because I'm sure the music faculty would know of get-togethers were you could play.

I love polka. I was at Washington DC on the mall one year for Oktoberfest. I also like the music in the soundtrack of Close to Eden.

From what I could see Vietnam was not nice. What I saw was the guys who would come home from the war and sit on the town bench, we called it the hippie bench but it wasn't really. It was on the way to the candy store so I used to go downtown to get candy and then sit with these guys on the bench. I'd ask them if they were really there and what was shown on TV really happened. We'd eat candy and sometimes I'd give them nickels leftover. I know why they wanted nickels. The park bench was right under a statue of war hero John Stark. Sometimes I would go to the Postmaster's house (a woman) and eat dinner with her and her husband and play piano for them. They always cried sometime during the evening but I went anyway. She lost all of her kids because they were boys. When I go to the VA for counseling (next week is my last hoorah, I asked for one last session, guess my subconscious knew I'd leave my H before I did), there are still a lot of Vietnam vets up there and they are still traumatized. Even living in a place like Vt where it is pretty quiet. I think it is too quiet, and that's the problem. It's so clinical, like keep everything like a baby's nursery, that kind of tranquil can't be a good thing.

Quaker. I'm a direct descendant of a Whittier. It just is kind of in your blood the same as whatever else is in your blood, which for me is Native American and Cuban. Quakers are good listeners. That's pretty much all there is to being a Quaker. It's not a very complicated religion at all. 

Those guitars you have sound fabulous. How can you resist the urge to play them? Around here, you could just go to a park and play and people would go home and get their guitars and come play with you. In the winter I volunteered as ski hut coordinator at a nordic ski area and the best day was the sing-along.


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## Lorraine M (Apr 26, 2011)

Parrothead said:


> I have an appointment with my psychologist next week. She is a female, we will see how it goes, but I have been frustrated with her at times for being so clueless about how men think and feel. I think i will take some notes so I don't get sidetracked if she asks a question. I have to force myself to concentrate most of the time.
> 
> Another thing is I son't have the feeling of dread about dying like I used to. That's probably the anti-depressants (AND the prayers!) but that is a huge improvement, too.


It's so good to start feeling good, and really good for people around you to see you come back to "you". Guessing it's the anti-depressents as it took my husband a few weeks to stop thinking I was trying to kill him and stopped running to the ER everytime something tasted strange or his hands tingled (still makes me think about his surgery as that tingling in his hands was constant before).

You need a different psychologist. Seriously, don't have loyalty. It's one thing for them to push you to discomfort to really think and solve issues, it's another if she can't relate. If you have any choices at all, I seriously suggest asking your doctor or friends (you would be surprised, maybe not, by how many people see psychologists). 

Plus, there are a few types of therapy, my husband for example, is not a good candidate for traditional talk therapy, dragging it out for months, years, "getting to the root of your issues" as he is very, very concrete thinking, where as I am, as most times I have already done the whole list, read everything on the topic, and need someone to help me sort it so I can think on it and make my decisions based on my research and what I feel is best. My Husband needs, and thankfully found a perfect psychiatrist for him, more of a "Dr. Phil" type personality - i.e. well, if you want this, you need to do that, so let's work on specifics to get you there, and if you want to do this then by doing xxxxx how did you think it would advance you toward your goal, which is interesting because my husband doesn't like to be told how to do things, normally very defensive, which worsened after his procedures, yet he said this doc is like a verbal polite smack up the side of his head and keeps him focused on his goals, sometimes literally holding him accountable appointment to appointment.

Sorry to ramble, just can't say enough, if after a few appointments it's not "clicking", move on fast, you don't want to waste more of your life.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Funny but I never regarded PTSD as a problem of mine and yet the therapist I have begun seeing after my fall seems to feel this might be an issue.

My mind is constantly moving at this point. The thoughts are generally negative and about a fear of going insane or dying. Typical anxiety, right? New house, new job after 8 years of being home, youngest starting kindergarten and first time away from me, followed by a big fall/Concussion two weeks after we move into the new house and all of this is backed by the worst year in my relationship with my husband. Then I have this nagging thought that my daughter is the same age I was when my father sexually abused me and she's going into the same high school and it's bringing me illogical fears.

So I get that I'm in stress overload and having trouble coping. I know I need help. I talk to the therapist list all of this along with my symptoms which are a constant feeling of disconnection/disassociation, fear that I'm going insane, rapid heartbeat, dizziness from time to time, inability to relax in any way, shape or form, rapid heartbeat.

What does she focus on this morning at therapy? The abuse of my father. The problem with my situation is that I love my dad and mom and they're still in my life. I don't want to go back there, ever. She actually said that the odds are he abused me more than once but I'm pretty darn sure that isn't true and it confuses me even more. 

Ack. I'm in a really icky place and I don't want it to prevent me from moving forward with my new job in a few weeks. I'm forcing myself to drive even though I'm terrified of it. I'm forcing myself to do kid drop off's/pick up's and parties even though doing so causes my anxiety to rise to a pitch level. Every noise has me jumping as well. It can be as small as my kids opening the door or my husband asking me a question.

I'm confused and feel overwhelmed. My relationship problems seem to pale in comparison to how I personally feel I'm struggling now. My husband wants me to snap out of it. All I can say is that I'm trying.

Anyone who has suffered with anxiety or post traumatic stress disorder or whatever label they give it...oh how I can currently relate.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Trenton my recent move literally put me in shock. Snapping out of it was impossible. It's taken 5+ months of therapy to get me back on track. I hate ptsd.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Trenton my recent move literally put me in shock. Snapping out of it was impossible. It's taken 5+ months of therapy to get me back on track. I hate ptsd.


I swear my latest mantra is "I just want to feel normal." or "I just don't feel like myself."

Ah joy. I got 5 months. If it only takes 5 months, I can deal. The problem I am having is that I know there are no guarantees. I have to learn to accept, similar to the problem I have in anything. In the meantime I will become a veritable database on everything PTSD, Panic Disorder and GAD. heh


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## grizabella (May 8, 2011)

Trenton, I'd listen to the therapist if I were you. It could be that not feeling like yourself is a defense your mind is using to see to it that you don't learn that which you don't want to know. Think of it as there being a dark closet in your mind and there are possibly some very scary things in there but you don't know for sure because you're too scared to look in it. At some point you (along with your therapist) come to a point where you throw open the door and turn on the light and you find out you can throw out anything you are not comfortable with and keep only that which is good for you.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm not 100% sure on this, however I do think its possible your doctor can run tests on you to check and see if your prefrontal cortex has been damaged, that usually can result in things like PTSD and BPD. Its the part of the brain that controls such things as behaviors, impulses, thoughts etc etc.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I am hesitant to believe conclusions or suggestions a therapist who spoke with me for an hour makes over what I remember. Granted, I understand this idea of repressed memory. My problem with it in my case is that the sequences of events fit in place very clearly. My responses, though not apparent to me at the time, seemed very appropriate. 

It makes me uncomfortable because it may lead me away from full recovery which very well might be that I hit my head and have post concussive disorder which is what the neuro and negative EEG results said. If I confuse my mind right now with diving into the past, chasing ghosts, it might take my brain longer to find resolve with what I felt and the physical symptoms as well.

It's always very apparent to me how little medical science knows about the brain. Most medical doctors can't even decide on what is the what. There are 15 billion techniques and assumptions based upon inconclusive studies with too many variables, I know because I've been reading them constantly. I'm not one to go on faith when it comes to the medical community. It seems by default medical science is at the expense of others because it needs to be to evolve. 

So I work on courage and doing what seems impossible right now. It's what I know how to do. I'm not going back to that therapist.

Funny story is that today I was leaving from swim lessons for my five year old. It was hot and I was anxious which is my default setting currently. I had to wait as they were running late and I was becoming more anxious and slightly dizzy in the sun, then fixated on how detailed everything looked around me. I got a text and looked at it but put it away. It said something like [email protected]@#[email protected] and I thought...weird text, I'll have to check it later.

Get in the car and make it home. Look for the text and can't find it. I'm thinking...oh my God, did I hallucinate it? Am I really going crazy?! Ahhhhhhhh. So I tell myself it must have been a weird brain malfunction to try to ward off a full blown panic attack.

When going through my texts later I realize it was from an old conversation I'd had with my daughter the day before that I must have pulled up when she texted me at the swim lessons.

I laughed. 

That story is not as funny as me making an appointment with the doctor on Tuesday because I thought I was bleeding out my bum and later realized I just got my period. No, seriously, I did that. My entire family is making fun of me now and I deserve it. HaHaHa

Yes, I am driving myself crazy right now.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Lorraine M said:


> It's so good to start feeling good, and really good for people around you to see you come back to "you". Guessing it's the anti-depressents as it took my husband a few weeks to stop thinking I was trying to kill him and stopped running to the ER everytime something tasted strange or his hands tingled (still makes me think about his surgery as that tingling in his hands was constant before).
> 
> You need a different psychologist. Seriously, don't have loyalty. It's one thing for them to push you to discomfort to really think and solve issues, it's another if she can't relate. If you have any choices at all, I seriously suggest asking your doctor or friends (you would be surprised, maybe not, by how many people see psychologists).
> 
> ...


There is an old movie named "Serial". One of the characters is seeing a high priced pop psych "therapist" who just keeps parroting her own words back at her, and some days being with my therapist can be like that. Other times, she seems to have her mind already made up and is not listening to me at all. *sigh*

I have already decided I am pretty much done with her so the real challenge will be trying to tell her some of the secrets I never tell anybody. I don't know if I trust her that much, and it's not that I think she would blab on me, it's that I don't think I can handle any more blank stares or have her get in my face about something SHE feels strongly about. I am paying for this.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Hmmm, I think you should bring your guitar to your next therapy session and show that she-therapist what a real man is made of.
> 
> I think Carlos Castenada was a sex-control-freak fraud who preyed on weak-minded well-endowed (and I don't mean big-busted) women. Everyone I know who swears by his philosophy has been a control-freak sex pervert.
> 
> ...


You are a NA/Cuban/Quaker? You have probably heard this before, but I don't meet people like you every day! 

I do need to get the guitars out more often - depression will do that to you, nothing is much fun any more. I might just try that today. Otherwise, the years I put into it were a waste of time.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

ParrottHead, I did come upon a really good book that is very interesting. It has been helping me very much so I figured I'd drop it for you.

It focuses on anxiety, PTSD but covers information on depression as well. I think it's definitely worth a read for you.

Amazon.com: When Panic Attacks: The New, Drug-Free Anxiety Therapy That Can Change Your Life (9780767920711): David D. Burns M.D.: Books


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Trenton said:


> ParrottHead, I did come upon a really good book that is very interesting. It has been helping me very much so I figured I'd drop it for you.
> 
> It focuses on anxiety, PTSD but covers information on depression as well. I think it's definitely worth a read for you.
> 
> Amazon.com: When Panic Attacks: The New, Drug-Free Anxiety Therapy That Can Change Your Life (9780767920711): David D. Burns M.D.: Books


Thanks, downloaded to Kindle.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

By the way all, I visited my new cardiologist yesterday - what a trip. He's a smart ass New Yorker who shoots straight from the hip. He did some tests and was making noises about some aggressive surgical treatment, but if this trend continues, I am going to consider having a zipper installed.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Funny, I got my cardio MD to back down off his kick about messing with a ****tail of drugs. I told him he could play chemistry teacher in a year if I didn't drop 20-25lbs and lowered my systolic 20% and dystolic 15% in a year. 

He made me wait 45 minutes in his damn waiting room and there was a crazy annoying hyperkinetic two year old babbling like a crack monkey. I was about 5 minutes from punching that baby in the face and dropping elbows on her grandma.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Parrothead said:


> Thanks, downloaded to Kindle.


Me too, just two days ago. Much of it requires print outs of the worksheets if you really want to work it so I was frustrated but going to see if I can print those specific pages out.

Tell me what you think of it! I find it a really interesting read so far.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Parrothead also wanted to say that I just re-read your post (was so self involved that I didn't remember reading it but re-read after the zipper comment). You're really dealing with a lot and I think it's scary for ANYONE to face that there is something really wrong with them that needs caring to but you've overcome all those obstacles once and absolutely can do it again. It's a lot for you to process, it would be a lot for anyone to process! Trust yourself more and recognize that what you're feeling is a normal response to stress that you can overcome and find out the facts about any procedure so you can do some real, fact backed assessment about what is going to be happening to you.

Sorry I didn't address your issues directly at first, it was thoughtless of me!


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Funny, I got my cardio MD to back down off his kick about messing with a ****tail of drugs. I told him he could play chemistry teacher in a year if I didn't drop 20-25lbs and lowered my systolic 20% and dystolic 15% in a year.
> 
> He made me wait 45 minutes in his damn waiting room and there was a crazy annoying hyperkinetic two year old babbling like a crack monkey. I was about 5 minutes from punching that baby in the face and dropping elbows on her grandma.


:lol:


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Parrothead also wanted to say that I just re-read your post (was so self involved that I didn't remember reading it but re-read after the zipper comment). You're really dealing with a lot and I think it's scary for ANYONE to face that there is something really wrong with them that needs caring to but you've overcome all those obstacles once and absolutely can do it again. It's a lot for you to process, it would be a lot for anyone to process! Trust yourself more and recognize that what you're feeling is a normal response to stress that you can overcome and find out the facts about any procedure so you can do some real, fact backed assessment about what is going to be happening to you.
> 
> Sorry I didn't address your issues directly at first, it was thoughtless of me!


No, it's okay. I am not made of glass, especially now. I have already decided that I am NOT having another operation this year and not at all unless there is some big time benefit. 

But thanks for the shoulder.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Funny, I got my cardio MD to back down off his kick about messing with a ****tail of drugs. I told him he could play chemistry teacher in a year if I didn't drop 20-25lbs and lowered my systolic 20% and dystolic 15% in a year.
> 
> He made me wait 45 minutes in his damn waiting room and there was a crazy annoying hyperkinetic two year old babbling like a crack monkey. I was about 5 minutes from punching that baby in the face and dropping elbows on her grandma.


I know, I hate going to the doctor. It seems like I pay them $150 an hour to re-iterate the obvious, as if I was hearing all this for the first time.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Funny, I got my cardio MD to back down off his kick about messing with a ****tail of drugs. I told him he could play chemistry teacher in a year if I didn't drop 20-25lbs and lowered my systolic 20% and dystolic 15% in a year.
> 
> He made me wait 45 minutes in his damn waiting room and there was a crazy annoying hyperkinetic two year old babbling like a crack monkey. I was about 5 minutes from punching that baby in the face and dropping elbows on her grandma.


Hate to say it but I loathe doctors. I've been to 100's for my migraine headaches and not one of them ever suggested therapy, chiropractor or lifestyle changes. One sheepishly did suggest I might be stressed and should cut back on my course load. The rest just wanted to medicate me. Every single one of them.

Now of course I know my headaches were part of my ptsd and the imbalance in my life. I cured myself no thanks to them and I've been pretty much headache free for 20 years now. 

I rarely follow doctors orders.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Hate to say it but I loathe doctors. I've been to 100's for my migraine headaches and not one of them ever suggested therapy, chiropractor or lifestyle changes. One sheepishly did suggest I might be stressed and should cut back on my course load. The rest just wanted to medicate me. Every single one of them.
> 
> Now of course I know my headaches were part of my ptsd and the imbalance in my life. I cured myself no thanks to them and I've been pretty much headache free for 20 years now.
> 
> I rarely follow doctors orders.


I'm a pharmacist and haven't had a doctor visit in 15 years.

And I don't want one.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Just got back from my therapist, and it's official. She had been thinking PTSD but hadn't said anything. 

What good is this information, you say? Well, getting treated for depression is one thing, knowing that there are certain triggers that are going to send you into a bout of flashbacks are another. You can avoid your triggers or modify your response to them. Easy, huh?


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Parrothead said:


> Just got back from my therapist, and it's official. She had been thinking PTSD but hadn't said anything.
> 
> What good is this information, you say? Well, getting treated for depression is one thing, knowing that there are certain triggers that are going to send you into a bout of flashbacks are another. You can avoid your triggers or modify your response to them. Easy, huh?


Parrothead, read the book I suggested. It covers PTSD very well. I really think if you work it, it can change your life.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Parrothead, read the book I suggested. It covers PTSD very well. I really think if you work it, it can change your life.


In the midst of that right now.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Parrothead said:


> In the midst of that right now.


Me too


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