# Sleeping alone



## Musicman1 (Jun 29, 2018)

Hi. This is my first time posting. My wife and I have been married for 15 years. We have had our ups and downs but we try hard to make things work. We have three amazing children 16 12 and 8. The problem that I’m having is the lack of sexual time with my wife. One of the issues is that our 8 year old daughter sleeps in our bed and I sleep on couch. I’ve tried many times to convince my wife to love her into her own room but nothing changes. Nights are very difficult to be romantic because we have no privacy because our daughter is in the bed and the teenagers are still awake. This of course makes it difficult to be romantic. Our days are fairly good; we communicate go running and do activities like going for lunches and walks. I try to be flirty during the day kissing her and saying nice things but at the end of the day nothing evolves. I’ve communicated with her that I need more, that I still find her beautiful and physically attracted to her and would like to be more intimate but nothing changes. Am I wrong or is something off? I don’t think she’s cheating on me, I don’t see any of the signs, no late nights or going out or secret calls. My gut tells me she’s not into me.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Let's start with some low hanging fruit here. Do you go on any short vacations, just the two of you, for an overnight stay. Maybe on Anniversary, Valentines' Day, etc?


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

While I could see a first time mother making the HUGE mistake of letting a child sleep in your bed and not realize what they are getting into, this is your third.

Your wife knows what she is doing. She doesnt want to have sex. 

Others here are better at this stuff, but maybe its time for the 180?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Set a few rules of your own. See what happens. Her reaction will give you evidence of her priorities.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Do you think she wants more frequent sex, or now that you have a kid is she done with sex?

How were things when you were dating and before the kid?


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Do you think she wants more frequent sex, or now that you have a kid is she done with sex?
> 
> How were things when you were dating and before the kid?


They have THREE kids Uhtred and the youngest one that sleeps with mom in their bed is EIGHT. She doesnt want more frequent sex. (kind of a TAM requirement here, but not with him at least she doesnt want more frequent sex)


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Co-sleeping Parent sleeping with child is not healthy for the child and Doctors advise against it. 
Sleeping on a couch is Hell on your back and you usually don't get very good sleep.
The definition of sexless marriage is sex less than 10 times / year. Has it been sexless in your marriage for 8 years?
My first advice. Go out and buy a queen size bed and install it in the 8 year old's room. Move your clothes into her closet. When you are getting some decent sleep you will better be able to deal with the stress in your life.
You are soon going to be advised to read. No More Mr. Nice Guy, The Married Mans Sex Life Primer, and Hold On To Your N.U.T.s. 
You will also be advised to learn about the 180.
Finally my advice is that you take up an expensive time consuming hobby. I usually recommend fly fishing. At a minimum it should involve 4-6 hours per week away from home. I know this seems counter intuitive, but she will find you more _interesting_ when you are involved in something she knows nothing about. Being mysterious about it is a good thing.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> Co-sleeping Parent sleeping with child is not healthy for the child and Doctors advise against it.
> Sleeping on a couch is Hell on your back and you usually don't get very good sleep.
> The definition of sexless marriage is sex less than 10 times / year. Has it been sexless in your marriage for 8 years?
> My first advice. Go out and buy a queen size bed and install it in the 8 year old's room. Move your clothes into her closet. When you are getting some decent sleep you will better be able to deal with the stress in your life.
> ...


I'd say buy a motorcycle or a boat, depending on where you live....but I'm a fisherman too so ....


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Who's running this house, you or your kids? Tell your wife you aren't allowing your 8 yr old to sleep with you/her anymore and give her a bedtime routine- tuck her in, give her a big kiss, turn out the lights and then go to sleep in your own damn bed. If she tries to sneak in your bed during the night, you walk her right back to her room and put her back in bed. Tell your wife if she has a problem with that she can sleep in your kids room.


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## SarcasticRed (Feb 21, 2018)

8 is far too old. I might understand an occasional night if your daughter was sick or something but every night at 8 is odd. Have you asked your wife why she has your daughter in the bed each night? Is your daughter having nightmares, night terrors or something else that needs to be addressed first? Does she have developmental issues? Is something in her room scaring her (shadows? the dark? noise? Does she feel too far away from other people if her room is more isolated?). If so, address the issue ASAP with a few therapy sessions or a visit to her pediatrician or hardware store with the understanding that the goal is to move her back into her own room. If there isn't anything going on with your daughter, I think it is a time for a serious conversation about this. This is not setting a good example for any of your children about what a (happy, healthy) marriage should look like and I think your wife should recognize that. I would not be okay getting kicked out my bed for this reason (or really any reason) for years with no end in sight. If your wife refuses to budge, that is telling and not a good sign for the relationship. 

You could also convince the kid to move back into her room. I think that you sleeping in her bed and moving some of your stuff in there so you have what you need, as someone else mentioned, might help encourage a child to take back their space. Start referring to her room as your room since you are sleeping in there. It is probably a bit manipulative, but at the same time, your wife might be manipulating your daughter to stay in the bed with her. And then you aren't "forcing" her, but it will be her choice to move back instead. (" I understand you want to sleep in the bed with your mom, but sleeping the couch is not good for me and not fair to me. So I'm going to take your room to sleep in. When you feel ready, I'll trade with you so you can have your room and I'll get to sleep in the bed with your mom") Give frequent opportunities for her to take it back. Or bribe the kid/give an incentive. Each night/week she stays in her own bed you'll give her $x towards something to make her room feel more special. If your wife feels as though your daughter "needs her" then your daughter making the choice to move to her own room might help your wife let go. And if nothing else, you get off the couch. 

Once your daughter in her own room, the issues with your wife will either disappear or become very clear and you can proceed accordingly.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> Co-sleeping Parent sleeping with child is not healthy for the child and Doctors advise against it.


Post this on a parenting forum and you will get disagreement. I say this in order to buttress this advice OP: Do NOT argue the truth of this with Mamma Bear. It is irrelevant.



> Sleeping on a couch is Hell on your back and you usually don't get very good sleep.
> The definition of sexless marriage is sex less than 10 times / year. Has it been sexless in your marriage for 8 years?
> My first advice. Go out and buy a queen size bed and install it in the 8 year old's room. Move your clothes into her closet. When you are getting some decent sleep you will better be able to deal with the stress in your life.
> You are soon going to be advised to read. No More Mr. Nice Guy, The Married Mans Sex Life Primer, and Hold On To Your N.U.T.s.
> ...


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...03/the-impact-chronic-co-sleeping-older-child

And then there is this....




When the baby (read: baby) is out of sync with sleep patterns, it does happen. But as my children grew older, they needed their own space and I needed my marriage intact. Not just on paper mind you....

I am not reading that your "wife" is complaining of your lack of presence in the bedroom...."Red Flag".


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

"My gut tells me she’s not into me."

You are the greatest "provider" for her for the last 16 years....


As a lover.....You are not getting the whole story. What did she say when you desired her? Did she say she at least "missed" you at all?!


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

To be honest-- I did that.. I loved when my kids were in bed with me!! And when there was 'no more' of them needing me at night, I didn't like it because I was alone with the spouse. Someone else mentioned it but I would get a big bed in daughters room and have them start sleeping in there. You need your bed back for your health! Then hopefully soon wife will be able to join you at some point.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...603/if-your-partners-in-bed-you-should-be-too

Here is another little nugget to chew on. Its not bible, but worthy of some grey matter function.


If it's not marriage bed, then it's roommates quarters...Think about it.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

*THE GOOD NEWS:* Your older kids can babysit for you.

*THE BAD NEWS:* You need to escape the house with your wife.

*THE PLAN:* Tell your kids that you and the wife are going out (make up a really boring cover story like going shopping for new tires for the car). Get a movie and pizza for the kids. Ask them to stay out of your bedroom, and lock the door before leaving. Drive away and park the car within walking distance to your house. Sneak back in through your bedroom window without the kids noticing. Enjoy some quality time with the wife, even if it is just a nice quiet conversation together without being interrupted by the kids. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I wouldn't assume she isn't into you just yet.

Have you taken her away just you and her? How does that go? 

Did anything traumatic happen with your daughter like sick at birth, almost drown?

I know I'm responsive desire. I've always loved my husband but I haven't always sat around wanting him especially during the kid years and you have 3.

So let's start with the do you go away and how is that?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

The thing that pains me to read on this site is a man sitting in a prison of his own making. The door to the cell is wide open, yet he refuses to walk out of the door, because he has convinced himself that either his sacrifice is necessary, or even worse, that it is the best he can do. Furthermore, most who fall into the latter situation lie to themselves and try to use the former as an excuse.

I know, because I was that guy when I came to TAM.

Why do you allow this? Why do you allow her to be comfortable in your discomfort? When do you put your foot down and stop blaming your wife for a situation that you are allowing to happen? You are willingly placing yourself in the victim chair and then laying the blame at your wife's feet.

Have you ever simply looked at your wife and told her your 8 year old is not welcome to sleep in the marital bedroom? If she does not like it, SHE can sleep in the daughters room. 

Furthermore, a conversation should be had regarding the intimacy situation:

"Wife, I'm no longer okay with the our sleeping arrangement, nor our levels of intimacy. I have no interest in making your needs a requirement when you are making mine optional, so I will be immediately stopping everything that I do solely for you. When you are ready to make the meeting of my needs a priority, I will be ready to reciprocate."

Lastly, how are you on being attractive compared to when you were dating your wife? Are you heavier, etc.? This matters. 

We had a poster on this site carry a thread on for nearly 90 days before he begrudgingly acknowledged that he had gained 150 lbs. since his dating days. Of course that has an impact.

So...what do you believe has contributed to the lack of intimacy?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

badsanta said:


> *THE GOOD NEWS:* Your older kids can babysit for you.
> 
> *THE BAD NEWS:* You need to escape the house with your wife.
> 
> ...


This won't do much good if he is sleeping on the couch again when they get back from their 'date night'. Their sleeping situation has to change immediately.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Middle of Everything said:


> While I could see a first time mother making the HUGE mistake of letting a child sleep in your bed and not realize what they are getting into, this is your third.
> 
> Your wife knows what she is doing. She doesn’t want to have sex.
> 
> Others here are better at this stuff, but maybe its time for the 180?


From personal experience, it may not be true that this wife doesn’t want sex. I personally had a child that would not stay out of our bed. I won’t go into any details, as it is complicated, but suffice it to say that we tried practically everything and s/he did not grow out of it until long after we thought it was acceptable. I was a pretty strong disciplinarian and didn’t just let the kids run amok. S/he just couldn’t sleep alone. I won’t go further into for privacy reasons as discussing my child’s life on a public board isn’t appropriate. My point is simply that I’ve dealt with this on a very personal level and it wasn’t due to not wanting sex with my husband.

In order to ascertain what is really going on, I’ve got a few questions.

Does your wife have a parenting philosophy that makes this seem okay to her?

What is the reason given that your daughter sleeps in your bed instead of you?

Does your daughter have her own bed?

Does your daughter have her own bedroom?

When did this start? Has your daughter ever slept in her own bed all night long?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Another question:
Exactly why and when you stop sleeping in your bed?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

We had some of the best sex back then when co-sleeping was the only way to get the Tasmanian devil known as DD1 to sleep through the night. Just wait till she's asleep, and move her to her official bed. We got so good at it I can move a sleeping cat now... Done it actually . Or use another bedroom. 

It's simply an excellent excuse....


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I think the majority of the world sleeps with their kid in the bed. Having a separate room for everyone is a first-world luxury that even our American pioneer ancestors of 150 years ago would not understand. My friend who lives in India asked me one day why we Americans don't let our kids sleep in the same bed as us. I didn't have a good answer. I know his customs are partially borne out of necessity: Living in a 1000 square-foot apartment with yourself, your elderly parents and your own children, how is it even possible to ever be separate from other family members? I'm sure the pop psychologists would be horrified, but the truth is I think my Indian friends and his neighbors, and all their children, will all end up just fine. In fact, I envy third-world families for the level of closeness they have to each other. The Western concept of family has eroded, and I think it will ultimately be part of our undoing.

But that being said, why can't your wife find time for you during the day? The kids are in school, right? If you're able to go on walks and have lunch together, can't this same time be used for intimacy? What happens when you try to initiate during the day? How often are you intimate right now?


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## Marriednatlanta (Sep 21, 2016)

Musicman1 said:


> Hi. This is my first time posting. My wife and I have been married for 15 years. We have had our ups and downs but we try hard to make things work. We have three amazing children 16 12 and 8. The problem that I’m having is the lack of sexual time with my wife. One of the issues is that our 8 year old daughter sleeps in our bed and I sleep on couch. I’ve tried many times to convince my wife to love her into her own room but nothing changes. Nights are very difficult to be romantic because we have no privacy because our daughter is in the bed and the teenagers are still awake. This of course makes it difficult to be romantic. Our days are fairly good; we communicate go running and do activities like going for lunches and walks. I try to be flirty during the day kissing her and saying nice things but at the end of the day nothing evolves. I’ve communicated with her that I need more, that I still find her beautiful and physically attracted to her and would like to be more intimate but nothing changes. Am I wrong or is something off? I don’t think she’s cheating on me, I don’t see any of the signs, no late nights or going out or secret calls. My gut tells me she’s not into me.


I know some of that routine....get the kid out of your BEDROOM immediatly. Tell your kid you can't sleep with her in your bed. There will be another excuse behind that one...but that is the first thing to do.


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## Musicman1 (Jun 29, 2018)

To reply to a lot these questions. This is been going on for a while. I was ok with it for the first two years I understood was easier for my wife with feedings etc. I don’t know what’s changed. I’m not out of shape or have let myself go. I actually try pretty hard to let her know how I feel about her compliments etc. I’m not a selfish lover I ask her what she would like to do and try o please her. I got lots of response on this thread and I appreciated all the comments. The bottom line I feel like there is nothing left in her for me and I’m just a roommate. Most of the replies I got kinda reaffirm this and I had pretty well made up my mind that this is not going anywhere and maybe it’s time to move on from this relationship.


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## Warrior73 (Jun 25, 2017)

Musicman1 said:


> To reply to a lot these questions. This is been going on for a while. I was ok with it for the first two years I understood was easier for my wife with feedings etc. I don’t know what’s changed. I’m not out of shape or have let myself go. I actually try pretty hard to let her know how I feel about her compliments etc. I’m not a selfish lover I ask her what she would like to do and try o please her. I got lots of response on this thread and I appreciated all the comments. The bottom line I feel like there is nothing left in her for me and I’m just a roommate. Most of the replies I got kinda reaffirm this and I had pretty well made up my mind that this is not going anywhere and maybe it’s time to move on from this relationship.


The first thing you need to do is check to see if she may be cheating...check the phone records...call logs and texts. Check any other electronic devices such as any computers or tablets. Has she acted out of the norm at all...any red flags at all. If you find nothing, sit down with her, without the kids around, and have a serious conversation with her. Ask her how she feels about you. Too many men *****footing around issues. Speak up and be assertive. Tell her you want to go to counseling. Give it time to see if you can change things before calling it quits.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Definitely verify there is not someone else.

Once verified, maybe you could try actually standing up for yourself.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

This is so simple, take charge, be the father, and move your child to her bedroom tonight, and do not allow her to sleep in your bed again. Fix this, end this. I mean, come on...Is she still breastfeeding too? Sorry, but you gotta man up here. This is absurd.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I cant believe that you are allowing your wife to force you to sleep on the sofa, and your 8 year old to be in your bed. This is madness.

You need to be a man and be strong and tell her that you are coming back to your own bed a)because its far better for your back and b) because your marriage is suffering. Don't take no for an answer. Don't let yourself be controlled any more. 

I bought up three children and not once did they sleep in our bed. 

Of course she may be using the child to make sure you cant have sex, but either way, nothing will change unless you act and its unfair on the child.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Musicman1 said:


> To reply to a lot these questions. This is been going on for a while. I was ok with it for the first two years I understood was easier for my wife with feedings etc. I don’t know what’s changed. I’m not out of shape or have let myself go. I actually try pretty hard to let her know how I feel about her compliments etc. I’m not a selfish lover I ask her what she would like to do and try o please her. I got lots of response on this thread and I appreciated all the comments. The bottom line I feel like there is nothing left in her for me and I’m just a roommate. Most of the replies I got kinda reaffirm this and I had pretty well made up my mind that this is not going anywhere and maybe it’s time to move on from this relationship.


Wow. This is so weak it's difficult to believe. 

This is your bed. You don't ask, you tell your wife that you are done sleeping on the couch and daughter is done sleeping in your bed. Tell your daughter that she is no long able to sleep in your spot that you are moving into your bed. She may need you to explain that you actually belong in the bed that she has been sleeping in, because most likely she sees that as her bed. She doesn't know any differently.

It's not that complicated. You don't ask. This is your bed and you do not belong on the couch. End of story. If your wife doesn't like it, she can sleep on the couch, but daughter does not belong in your bed and she's being moved out effectively immediately.

You don't have to be an ass about it, but you shouldn't feel bad about taking back you bed and then changing the sexual dynamic between you and your wife. If she's doesn't respond to your advances, then you have a talk with her and explain that either she has sex with you on a regular basis (whatever was the norm before) or the marriage is over.

You owe it to yourself and your family to at least look for your balls.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

This situation is a hot mess and has been allowed to go WAY off the rails.......UGH


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## Musicman1 (Jun 29, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Another question:
> Exactly why and when you stop sleeping in your bed?[/QUOTE
> As she got older she would move to much and would wake me. So I started going to couch and it became the norm


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Musicman1 said:


> CynthiaDe said:
> 
> 
> > Another question:
> ...


This right here is very unhealthy. I'm sorry, but you have given up your own bed for no reason. If you don't find your voice now it will continue to get worse for you, even if you leave, because you have not learned to properly advocate for yourself. I'd say that you are likely what is referred to as a "Nice Guy." There is a book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy" which does a really good job of describing what a Nice Guy is, but his answer in resolving only creates other problems in my view. However, at least recognizing what a nice guy is and seeing the situation for what it really is can help you find a resolution.


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## PaulB (Jun 26, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Have you ever simply looked at your wife and told her your 8 year old is not welcome to sleep in the marital bedroom? If she does not like it, SHE can sleep in the daughters room.



Seriously. ^ This ^
Get a full or queen bed in the 8 yr old's room. If your wife insists on sharing a bed with a kid, she share the kid's bed. Ideally, she would leave the kid's room after your 8 yr old falls asleep, and join you in your bedroom.

I'm dealing with this schizz currently with a 4 yr old. The kid has their own room and a full bed. Mom (75% of time) or dad gets them to bed and often stays in there until s/he falls asleep. The kid is no longer allowed to go to bed in our room, but still ends up in our bed a couple times a week at some point after 2 AM. This was my wife's first child, got pregnant in her mid-30s, and she was def too loose about things with them because her world 100% revolved around this kid. After age 2, she regretted creating the bedtime hell that we had, but we still haven't recovered. 


I can't imagine still having bedtime schitt with an 8 yr old. Bribe the kid. Threaten the kid. Whatever. Get the kid out of your bed...even if that gets the wife out of it too. If the wife is unreasonable, then box up the 8 yr old's stuff and make that room yours. Take over the closet. Hang posters and stuff. Hell, put a lock on the door.


And, as far as intimacy goes, start being passive aggressive if she won't address that issue with you. Time for you to not be in the mood or the timing just not being right for things your wife is wanting you to do. (Not parent related, of course.)


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I am gobsmacked that you would allow this OP. YOU are the parent, not the 8 year old.

Don't ask her, TELL her that as of tonight, she sleeps in HER ROOM. She'll throw a tanty, sure, and you'll likely have a battle on your hands and have to continually take her back to her bed but don't give in. Once you've drawn a line in the sand, it mustn't move.

As for your wife, if she won't make your child sleep in her own room, then you'll sleep in your room with your child and your wife can sleep on the couch.

This is absolutely outrageous!


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## Knips (May 23, 2017)

Kids needs to sleep in their own bed. I have 3 kids and they never slept in our bed (except somethimes when they are sick or have a nightmare) It is unhealthy for the kids and for you're marriage. Before you know you are in a sexless marriage.


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## Knips (May 23, 2017)

Please understand if a husband is too much a "nice guy" woman tend to loose respect for their husband.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

At this point you are choosing this situation by not doing anything about it. I could understand if there was some issue causing this, but you haven't even tried to do anything about it. This isn't working through anything. This is letting life happen to you as if you have no say in your own life. That's a terribly weak in effective way to live life.

That being said, strength does not require hostility. The whole idea is that you and your wife should be working together to make your home a haven for everyone that lives there. You should have each other's backs. Anything you do about this situation should come from that point of view. You matter in all of this. You have a bed, but for some odd reason have chosen to sleep on the couch. That isn't working in the plan to have a happy, harmonious home.

The fact that your sex life is pretty much non-existent isn't all your wife's fault. She is probably wanting to connect with you, but doesn't know how at this point. You two have settled into a dysfunctional situation and neither of you had made a move to resolve it. It's time to actually do something. Move back into your room. Do it with a good attitude. Your daughter isn't being helped by this situation and neither is the family.

As others have mentioned, the bed your wife is sleeping in with your daughter is actually the marriage bed and should be occupied by you and your wife. You may have to wean your daughter out of the bed, but she should not go to sleep in your bed, in your place really. She should be put down to bed in her own bed. If she wakes up in the middle of the night, you (not your wife) should take her gently back to her bed and comfort her, but firmly help her get into a routine of sleeping in her bed. She cannot stay in your bed at night at all.

When I was a kid, I always wanted to sleep with my parents. My dad was so warm and cuddly. If I had a bad dream, I would wake up and crawl into my dad's side of the bed. He would snuggle me for a few minutes, then he would pick me up, carry me back to my bed, gently tuck me in, kiss me, and go back to his own bed. And that was that. He had the right idea.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

I hear what others are saying...But I still maintain, even if he DID "man up" as was so not delicately put...He would still be in roommate mode. Not by choice either. And to boot, either we believe that in having a marriage is a 2 way street among equals or it isn't and only a patriarchal fiefdom will fix this...You can't have it both ways. 

I feel OP is a considerate partner, and maybe a little submissive with his wife while the care to small children take place. This isn't such a bad thing per se, but it has metastasized into a monster that he may not make it back. Like I said in the beginning...."Where is the wife with all this?" I haven't heard a peep about her "missing" him and wanting him. I just don't see it.


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## PaulB (Jun 26, 2018)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> ...either we believe that in having a marriage is a 2 way street among equals or it isn't and only a patriarchal fiefdom will fix this...You can't have it both ways.


Holy schitt that was well said. Totally sums up the struggle (and paradox) of so many American men.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

It is NOT good for your 8 year old to be sleeping in your bed. I dont care what crunchy birkenstock parents say.

It's not good. For your child or your marriage.

This isnt a village in the Amazon.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

OP, any uodate?
I'm tempted to ask have you two had wild monkey porn sex yet to close this matter?

W is certainly sounding like she may only respond to you taking a firm leadership position in many things, to get her back alone in the marriage bed.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> OP, any uodate?
> I'm tempted to ask have you two had wild monkey porn sex yet to close this matter?
> 
> W is certainly sounding like she may only respond to you taking a firm leadership position in many things, to get her back alone in the marriage bed.


Yes, someone needs to take leadership or things will not improve. I hope you (OP) don't decide to just walk away when this is something that can be saved. Most women do not find a milquetoast man to be a turn on. Milquetoast doesn't get you sex. If you want this to change you will have to stop being easily walked on and show your wife that you are someone she can respect. Then your chances of the relationship improving are greatly increased. But if you keep on this way in your life and move on thinking you will find a better woman, think again. Studies show that woman want stronger men, not milquetoast men.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> This right here is very unhealthy. I'm sorry, but you have given up your own bed for no reason. If you don't find your voice now it will continue to get worse for you, even if you leave, because you have not learned to properly advocate for yourself. I'd say that you are likely what is referred to as a "Nice Guy." There is a book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy" which does a really good job of describing what a Nice Guy is, but his answer in resolving only creates other problems in my view. However, at least recognizing what a nice guy is and seeing the situation for what it really is can help you find a resolution.


I agree!

Let me add to this that I do not think any mother will feel safe and attracted to a man that allows a child to kick them out of their master bedroom. In addition your child will instinctively not feel safe and be even more clingy towards mom for comfort. 

Here is something interesting you can try. Find or buy a large snake skin. Place it under the edge of the bed in your master bedroom where it can be discovered. You will get your bedroom back immediately. Then buy a nonpoisonous pet snake that matches the skin you placed and keep it in the master bedroom and claim you caught it trying to snuggle up next to you one night to stay warm. Place it in an appropriate aquarium-like tank and keep it as a pet for the purpose of demonstrating to your family that you are not afraid of snakes. Hold it and eventually train your family not to be afraid of the snake and accept it as a loving pet. Your family will respect you and begin to feel protected by seeing you completely unafraid of the snake and disarming the situation to make the house safe again. Do make it a point to explain the difference to them about how to recognize and be safe around poisonous snakes. 

THAT right there is probably the most fun and least confrontational way I can think of to solve a lot of your problems. Consider the snake a family therapy pet! 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

By strong, I don't mean aggressive or demanding. I mean confidently expressing your needs and desires and doing what is necessary to have them met in a reasonable manner. Allowing your child to take over your bed is not reasonable. Telling your wife and your child that you are taking back your bed isn't demanding or rude. It's common sense when done in a calm, measured manner.


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