# What is the fog?? And fog speak for that matter?



## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

I have gathered from reading a few posts that the fog is something a wayward spouse does after an affair, that its about their uncertainty. And fog speak is their confusing words during this period. Can someone explain the fog? Thanks in advance for feedback its much appreciated


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

The fog refers the fantasy built by the cheater. The affair partner is the most wonderful person in the world, while the loyal spouse of many years is terrible in every way. Life would be great with the affair partner, there would be no problems, life is terrible with the loyal spouse, there is not one thing to be happy about.

With the affair partner, none of life's unpleasant realities encroach. There are no bathrooms to clean, no chores to do, no grocery shopping, no cutting the grass, no wiping little butts, etc., nothing but I love you's and talk of sex and a happily-ever-after future together. With the loyal spouse, all of life's unpleasant realities exist. The cheater doesn't recognize this. They see the affair partner a few times a week and the affair partner always looks and acts their best. They live with their loyal spouse, and see all of the loyal spouse's blemishes. Also, the period of infatuation in any relationship lasts at most a couple of years. The cheater doesn't see that and believes that the "butterflies-in-the-stomach" feeling they have with their affair partner will last forever (even though it didn't last forever in any other relationship they ever had, including with their loyal spouse).

That is the affair fog that people refer to cheaters being in.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Also, the cheater becomes addicted to the hormones/drugs secreted by the brain when a person is infatuated. They become addicted to the extra attention showered on them by the affair partner and find it very hard to stop seeking that out, even after they do realize that it's not really real, that it will fade with time - they still have a hard time giving it up. That also is part of the fog.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

" The fog" is the web of lies and deceit, woven by skilful manipulators, that wraps itself around the brain of wayward spouse, blocking them from perceiving reality and consequence of their actions.

" The fog" is usually harder to lift from wayward wives , because women usually cheat for reasons different to men. IMO, most times its emotional for them. So that when they are in the fog,their brain is telling them one thing but their heart
[ emotions ] tells them another.
From reading this website,I understand that the best way to lift the fog is to expose the wayward spouse's actions to those around.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

From the betrayed person's point of view, the fog is that which you can not explain to yourself.

that includes:
1. How fat, smelly and ugly the OM/OW is.
2. How rude, cruel and immoral the OM/OW is.
3. How much the OM/OW appears to be the opposite of everything your SO says they want in a partner


and so on.........


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I never believed in the fog... explained as infatuation/limerence/luurv as Will Kane posted. It happens at the early stage in legit relationships all the time. I believe in the fog as the natural results of dealing with cognitive dissonance and ego protection. Sure enough it often amplifies the infatuation and feed the addictive facet of this. Affairs are not only relationship WSs have *with* their APs but they are relationship they have *against* themselves and their BSs.
Actually Fog is no more than the old known defense mechanisms applied to the triangle sittuation of the affair.


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

The fog is in the Land of Unicorns and Rainbows. Apparently it's a very pleasant place to visit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Much of the fog is chemical. One has to go through withdrawal. It requires full no contact for some number of weeks. Just like one hs to withdraw from drugs.

Dopamine and oxytocin.


----------



## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Acabado said:


> I never believed in the fog... explained as infatuation/limerence/luurv as Will Kane posted. It happens at the early stage in legit relationships all the time. I believe in the fog as the natural results of dealing with cognitive dissonance and ego protection. Sure enough it often amplifies the infatuation and feed the addictive facet of this. Affairs are not only relationship WSs have *with* their APs but they are relationship they have *against* themselves and their BSs.
> Actually Fog is no more than the old known defense mechanisms applied to the triangle sittuation of the affair.


Acabado, I wondered if "cognitive dissonance" is a defense mechanism or coping method. I also wondered how much of this ties in to the avoidance of guilt/shame? 

I think I understand part of what you are saying in terms of cognitive dissonance, but can you explain what you mean by "ego protection." Thanks.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

One WS put it very eloquently- "there's no fog, just own your sh*t"


----------



## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Complexity said:


> One WS put it very eloquently- "there's no fog, just own your sh*t"


That is the truth. The Fog makes it sound like your loving loyal and long term partner is in temporary insanity, like they are not in control of their life. In fact I hear it all the time now..
"It just happened"
"I fell in love and I'm only human"

The truth is that they damn well know what they are doing, they just hope to get away with it and you will give them a free pass for their "mistake." It is up to the BS what happens when the ****ty life choice they made comes and bites them.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> can you explain what you mean by "ego protection."


Even those who suffer from very low self steem and feelings of unworthyness feel the need to protect thier egos. It's a human thing, not a wayward thing. We all have a sense/image of ourself as basically good people so when we behave badly we need to justify ourselves. It's not necessary done consciously or coldy. We need to protect our own image, normaly blaming things "out there". Waywards justify themselves the cheating by demonizing their spouse, rewriting the marital story, pointing out extreme circunstances becuase they are not like to those "selfish" cheaters, they are specials, they argue unique circunstances...
Then they also "somehow" feel bad about what they are doing; WHo is to blame; of course the dump the blame squarely at the one who make the "feeling bad" possible; thier betrayed ones. After all if we were just nice enough to dissapear they won't fell bad about themselves for cheating on us, right? Our mere existence is not only an obstacle to hapiness but a reminder they are cheaters.


----------



## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Acabado said:


> Even those who suffer from very low self steem and feelings of unworthyness feel the need to protect thier egos. It's a human thing, not a wayward thing. We all have a sense/image of ourself as basically good people so when we behave badly we need to justify ourselves. It's not necessary done consciously or coldy. We need to protect our own image, normaly blaming things "out there". Waywards justify themselves the cheating by demonizing their spouse, rewriting the marital story, pointing out extreme circunstances becuase they are not like to those "selfish" cheaters, they are specials, they argue unique circunstances...
> Then they also "somehow" feel bad about what they are doing; WHo is to blame; of course the dump the blame squarely at the one who make the "feeling bad" possible; thier betrayed ones. After all if we were just nice enough to dissapear they won't fell bad about themselves for cheating on us, right? Our mere existence is not only an obstacle to hapiness but a reminder they are cheaters.


Well sadly then. I guess Mine is still in the "fog" and isnt never gonna come out of it.. Heck you would thing he would had at least turned on his fog lights by now.. He still to this day says or trys to tell me it is because of this that or the other things I did to his precious little A** oh so many years ago.. Yeah I might sound kinda bitter about this. But you know what I guess I am.. I didnt cause the affair. I may had done better job in my past to help my marriage, but hey doesnt seem like he did such a fine job either, But no reason is a good reason to cheat.. And thats the exact reason I am pretty dang sure My marriage wont last... R, false R whatever I am in.. Just isnt cutting it for me.... Maybe it will change.. But not until he gets KNOCKED out of his Stupid fog......


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Fogspeak by a WW:


H is physically and/or verbally abusive
H is controlling - the most common
H emotionally neglected her
H is controlling - did I mention controlling? Because he's super controlling, she's able to have an affair.


----------



## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Fogspeak by a WW:
> 
> 
> H is physically and/or verbally abusive
> ...


Yep, words I have heard not by ww but by the wh..

I had been told and I quote

" For years you had me on the back burner and put the kids on the front burner now I am not even on a burner at all"

Well excuse me for being a good mom to our children.. Well of course you had the right to cheat I dont know what I was thinking making our children a priority!!!:scratchhead: Yes for sure it is all "FOG" talk...


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Just Tired...I cannot hit Like on your comment because that is such a painful thing to hear. Good God! You WERE doing the right thing by putting them first.


----------



## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> Just Tired...I cannot hit Like on your comment because that is such a painful thing to hear. Good God! You WERE doing the right thing by putting them first.


I dont blame you for not hitting the LIKE button. If there was a Dis-like button than that is the one that should be hit reaptedly. 

And if you think it is painfull, well imagine that spewing from your husbands the father of your childrens mouth after coming home after a two week disapearing act,and those words was his justification.. His abondonment of his family was all do to the fact of my putting our children as a priority. 

Oh I have many many more that would raise a cat from his grave just to be able to rip his venomous tongue from his mouth.

That my dear freind was just a taste of the venome that sipped from his spiked tongue during the Affair.

You know I have been thinking about doing like some of the other have done on here before and right my story out in detail and in parts just so most could follow along. I think it would be good therapy and give more detail and understanding to my situation. And it would probley help others to give me the advice I need.. Now remind you like some of the other stories mine would not be novel worthy because I am not a writer but it would give a better understanding of what I went through.. Who knows maybe I will one day..


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

That comment I CAN hit like on. What my wife, Regret214 did was sit down and use word pad on her laptop and write out her story in 3 parts. I did mine in one, but that's only because she had been here for a while and people already knew parts of the story.

Both of us agree that it really helped us put it in writing because of the reflection it took to write. For my wife, it helped her come to grips with the enormity of her affair. For me, it helped get pain out there. For us it sparked many good conversations.

Don't worry about being a "good" writer. Just be yourself and let YOUR words flow.


----------



## LessOfaMan (Jul 8, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Fogspeak by a WW:
> 
> 
> H is physically and/or verbally abusive
> ...



WOW This is how I've been (and am heavily currently being) described by my WW since the first year of our marriage, so much so, I started to become that way except physical, although it has come close in the past. 
FOG interesting, I think she's lived in it since she hit puberty!


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Just Tired Of It All said:


> Well sadly then. I guess Mine is still in the "fog" and isnt never gonna come out of it.. Heck you would thing he would had at least turned on his fog lights by now.. *He still to this day says or trys to tell me it is because of this that or the other things I did to his precious little A** oh so many years ago.. Yeah I might sound kinda bitter about this. But you know what I guess I am.. I didnt cause the affair*. I may had done better job in my past to help my marriage, but hey doesnt seem like he did such a fine job either, But no reason is a good reason to cheat.. And thats the exact reason I am pretty dang sure My marriage wont last... R, false R whatever I am in.. Just isnt cutting it for me.... Maybe it will change.. But not until he gets KNOCKED out of his Stupid fog......


Trouble is this is a major deal for me.

The blame, the rewriting of past in order to justify the acts of infidelity. The lack of genuine heartfelt remorse.

My wife just cannot get this. Its all part of her inability to deal with her own mental issues sure but ultimately it's pretty obvious to me and many others that unless you confront yourself about your weaknesses and bad points you will never ever get to the root of them and be able to modify your behavior in a positive way.

Out of interest is that correct? do most people on here feel this way?

My stbxw gets 2 minutes of absolute clarity, reason and remorse and admits to me she never had good enough reasons for her serial cheating. But 10 seconds after that she'll throw in "and if you had not made me get a part job for 7 hrs a week for 8 weeks 15 years ago I would have had no resentment to build upon that later made me want to look at other men" !!! Pleeeze!

This is why I cannot give her a 'closure' based on my acceptance, which she is after - 'Oh if he finally stops getting all pissy about it then we can all go sailing on'

She's been very very clever, using her warm effervescent bubbly personality which instantly makes her 'best friend ' material. Only a few people really know her and that's how she wants to keep it. She already wants me not being angry and 'moving on' but I see that as a way of letting her get away with her 'personality deception' - she'll be able to place her real self - the one who can willfully destroy her kids husband and other families of married men at the drop of a hat into some little box out of sight.

Am I wrong in not allowing that to happen?. I don't want her to look at me with fond memories of wonderful times children etc I want to be one of the last people that remind her of exactly what she is and what she's done. I feel if I soften my attitude to her she get clean away with everything 

I also know I am sounding bitter but atm I cannot let go of it. I feel she is still fogged up and maybe the proper and genuine remorse that would release me from my perpetual rage about her will never come.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

TryingToHeal said:


> I have gathered from reading a few posts that the fog is something a wayward spouse does after an affair, that its about their uncertainty. And fog speak is their confusing words during this period. Can someone explain the fog? Thanks in advance for feedback its much appreciated


Haven't read the entire thread yet. 

During the Fog, however, the Betrayed spouse can do nothing right and the affair partner can do nothing wrong. 

People who cheat are addicted to the rush of the first date, new relationship sex feeling. 

They can't see that it will eventually wear off and is supposed to become a more companionate type of love rather than the thrilling new romance type of love. 

Also, during the fog the cheater will pick fights as a way to have an excuse to demonize the faithful spouse and to make an excuse to leave the house and meet up with the affair partner. 

In my case, my spouse picked a fight because I asked him to bring out some heavy items after a fire in the kitchen. 

He started complaint about how I was never fun to be around and we fought and he stormed out of the house. 

I now know he called his OW because he knew her husband was out of town on business and spent the entire day with her. 

He picked the fight precisely because he knew her husband was out of town and he wanted to be with her.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> From the betrayed person's point of view, the fog is that which you can not explain to yourself.
> 
> that includes:
> 1. How fat, smelly and ugly the OM/OW is.
> ...


To the OP, this post hits the nail on the head. 

In my case, the OW is someone I would never expect my spouse to be attracted to on any level for any reason, yet he was. 

He still defends her when I mention this. 

I say she is a liar and a serial cheat and terrible person and a horny aggressive housewife.

He says she was kind and sweet and He lied and said they both made the first move, when in reality she made the first move.

Also, when I say she is not his type physically, and IMO, and based on other outside opinions, she is not very attractive.

He defends her looks talking about how pretty she was and how cute her kids were. 

Her four kids have piggy faces, like her and that looks cute on kids but it doesn't look cute on a women in her 30s.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

some info in 'never say never' thread. see link in my sig.


----------



## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Fogspeak by a WW:
> 
> 
> H is physically and/or verbally abusive
> ...


Good topic to discuss because I'm trying to find answers for a sense of my own closure to my EXs string of terrible choices.

It's been almost 2 years since the affairs and my divorce was final last month. My EX is still in "defense" mode when her brother confronts her about her actions (especially the fact she has moved to another state away from her kids to where she's more happy). She told her brother yesterday that I am many of those things lordmayhem listed above. She's been living with a new OM since leaving last summer (and before I filed for divorce). She feels she never did anything wrong and that she's a new person that is no longer putting up with people's ****. She only looks at the negative things about me (which is really stretching it, haha).
Could her denial of doing anything wrong and that everyone else doesn't understand still be considered she's in the fog? Or is it just plain stubborness and ego protection? I did relate to the one comment that those who have affairs view themselves as generally good people and try to protect themselves/justify why they did such a thing. 
There was a book she read back when the affair was exposed called " When Good People Have Affairs". It was exactly the kind of "justification" she was looking for. She did leave the book behind by the way...Would it be wrong of me to burn that mothertrucker?


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> He still defends her when I mention this.
> I say she is a liar and a serial cheat and terrible person and a horny aggressive housewife.
> He says she was kind and sweet and He lied and said they both made the first move, when in reality she made the first move.
> Also, when I say she is not his type physically, and IMO, and based on other outside opinions, she is not very attractive.
> ...


Obvious ego protection. He cant stand the though of falling so low. He's better than this so in his mind he HAS to completely "suspend" reality (the OW's evident flaws) in order to make him feel better. It won't work forever. Given those flaws are evident fore everybody and for him deep within the next step is negate completely he ever hated those characteristics (rewriting again). He will embrace the rewritten version to the deep end. HE will change inside out in order to protect his ego.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> To the OP, this post hits the nail on the head.
> 
> In my case, the OW is someone I would never expect my spouse to be attracted to on any level for any reason, yet he was.
> 
> ...


Always cracks me up this does.

In the final analysis I got this sentence (word for word) "He has shown me the kind of man I can build a future with"

I replied "Oh does your future include him screwing around then because if I'm not mistaken he's shown you that, by cheating on his wife! - has he not?" 

Reply (screaming at me) "I'm not fking talking about him or his marriage - you don't know anything about him ...."

I replied "Well, for a fact, I know that"

I ended that conversation with "I'll be taking bets on who cheats on who first"

Unfortunately he did not leave his wife or I could have seen who would cheat first and taken some satisfaction from that


----------



## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

What is the fog?

"I value my relationship with my old man. I really do. I almost got excommunicated because of this. but I just want to see him one last time, and talk to him about what we had. To explain why I can't see him anymore. Is this wrong?"

Those were my wayward's words re: her "crush"* and wanting closure, to her 
toxic then best friend who had aided, abetted and encouraged the EA.

What is the fog? 

Even tho' she had hurt me, badly, even tho' she was nearly "excommunicated," as she put it, even tho' they had not done anything physically, she still wanted to see him "one last time" and discuss "what they had." 

What did they have?

What they had was a workplace fiction of stolen lunch dates and coffee breaks. What they had were giggles and flutterings of high school style anticipation. What they had was completely devoid of worth. What they had were two spouses.

What they had was a joke.


*"crush" was her term, everyone here knows better


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> What did they have?
> 
> What they had was a workplace fiction of stolen lunch dates and coffee breaks. What they had were giggles and flutterings of high school style anticipation. What they had was completely devoid of worth. *What they had were two spouses*.
> 
> What they had was a joke


That's where I disagreed with the "fog". Except for the bolded phrase the rest is "luurv" stuff. It happens in legit relationships. Nothing new. It doesn't become "fog" because they were married albeit some of the fntasy and addictive component is fueled by that fact. The rationalizations are another thing altogether, they exist precisely, exclusively, becuase the are married. No need for them if they were single. That's the fog.


----------



## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> some info in 'never say never' thread. see link in my sig.


I went to your thread. Thanks for writing that and linking it to this thread.


----------



## MAP (Dec 18, 2011)

Acabado said:


> Even those who suffer from very low self steem and feelings of unworthyness feel the need to protect thier egos. It's a human thing, not a wayward thing. ....


Thanks for this explanation Acabado.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

It is hard to understand Tryingtoheal, while I don't fully understand it myself, i think it seems like the person in the fog is a bit unreachable during this stage.
Entropy, how long does it take for somebody in and EA to get out of the fog once the affair has been exposed?


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Lifting the 'fog' (which is really a way of saying, the habit / compulsion getting out of reach, becoming unpleasant, or otherwise sufficiently unattractive that the desire to engage in it is blocked or broken) is mostly a function of No Contact. The longer the two people are out of contact, the easier it is for the feelings of infatuation to dissipate. Once those feelings start to lessen, rational thought has a chance to take over.

I've seen quotes of a minimum of four weeks, others say 6 to 8 weeks, others say at least 3 or 4 months. Unfortunately, reestablishment of contact can start the clock over.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

For myself, I had 3rd D day July 5th and my H has not spoken to OW for 3 weeks now which up until now he only lasted 16 days before he tried to have contact when he emailed her, and then 14 days later after not receiving any reply to his email to her, he called her. 
So I guess essentially he went 30 days without actual contact, but how do I count his attempts at contact? That was only 16 days....


----------



## Monroe (Jun 21, 2012)

In my situation the fog was also combined with limbo. WH didn't know what he wanted to do or where he wanted to go. It sucked. I did nothing right, OW did nothing wrong. I said nothing right, she said nothing wrong.

Fog/limbo lasted about 2 months... then I did the 180.... hard. Fog and limbo lifted on day 3 of the 180. Its been rainbows and unicorns ever since. *eye roll*


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

The WS has to be jolted out of the fog, going public with the A, divorce papers, BS walks out. These are usually a reality check for them but not always.

In most cases when you expose the A the AP runs for cover.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

member2012 said:


> For myself, I had 3rd D day July 5th and my H has not spoken to OW for 3 weeks now which up until now he only lasted 16 days before he tried to have contact when he emailed her, and then 14 days later after not receiving any reply to his email to her, he called her.
> So I guess essentially he went 30 days without actual contact, but how do I count his attempts at contact? That was only 16 days....


Well, attempts at contact do count, but not for the purposes of this clock. What they show is that he is definitely still under the throes of infatuation, and the desire to engage in his favorite compulsion is very strong, still. That would make sense given the short time frame (less than 3 weeks / 3 months).

But, there should absolutely be consequences for reaching out to her. They are a sign of enormous disrespect and evidence of false reconciliation. So what happens when he tries to contact her? A tongue lashing is remarkably ineffective...after all, if those worked, no one would bother having an affair in the first place.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

I exposed the affair beginning of June. all contact ended. he tried to contact her 2 1/2 weeks later, she did not respond. He called her 2 weeks after that, but her husband stopped the call in the first minutes. that was 3 weeks ago. since they actually spoke, does the clock start again? 
btw, I was calm and collected when I told him this is it, we were doing so great and this? H was incredibly remorseful about this last call and begged me not to let it ruin our R. First time he was really remorseful in that tone. 
what do you think?


----------



## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

That it's not up to you to "ruin" the R- he already did.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

right.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

What's his explanation for repeatedly reaching out to her? How does he answer when you say, if not for the OWH, they'd still be communicating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

he says it has been hard for him to get beyond this thing and that he just wanted to see how she was doing. He says that he definitely wants us to reconcile our marriage. He says it is hard for him to talk to me about how he still thinks about her sometimes because he knows I don't want to hear that.
Our MC says it is a process to move forward and that these are setbacks, but that we need to continue to move forward.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

member2012 said:


> he says it has been hard for him to get beyond this thing and that he just wanted to see how she was doing. He says that he definitely wants us to reconcile our marriage. He says it is hard for him to talk to me about how he still thinks about her sometimes because he knows I don't want to hear that.
> Our MC says it is a process to move forward and that these are setbacks, but that we need to continue to move forward.


Has he read the book, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? Have you had him hand-write a No Contact letter, and exposed to his family? (sorry if I missed that). Do you have your own thread, BTW? Because we are hijacking this one.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

I just started a new thread:
how long does withdrawal take


----------



## TryingToHeal (Jul 15, 2012)

Thanks guys for all your responses. i suspected my ws was still maybe 50% in the fog when i posted this, and i wanted to hear what it looked like to be more sure of what i was experiencing. turns out that i was better off just really taking alot of space for my own peace of mind than trying so hard while he was just kind of unreachable, as one responder said.

i really started looking at my life, wanting to cherish all the good things and stop giving attention to crap, like to him when he doesnt appreciate me, and speaking up CALMLY when im hurt, giving him the option to either calm down apologize and be nice and appreciate me, or i would just go do something that did not involve him.

and got a new great job, something id been wanting for several months. i am making better money that i ever had, working 2 miles from home and with great people. my friendships are strong, and i am seeing that just not shutting down and keeping myself together has helped me feel much better about myself after his affair, and also seems to have gotten through to him. 

he seems to be coming out of the fog. its been about 5 1/2 months since d day, but he only got a new job about 3 months ago, where he would run into her almost every shift, they had the same boss. when i first posted this it was about 2 months since hed seen her last.

Seems like for him he was so disappointed in who he had decided to be when he had his affair. he hurt me so bad, his mother and sister know, my sisters know and so do their husbands. this makes it really hard on him, and so it should be. if he will not face this then hes not proving anythign to me, so he doesnt really have a choice. 

our therapist says that he needs to really realize what our story is, and not rewrite it too, something he is finally hearing, after 5 months of therapy. he is finally realizing that he has an attitude and is really rude, catches HIMSELF, AND apologizes. so i really think this fog is lifting. i am so so glad. but at times still very wary, and more focused on keeping myself together than anything else. 

reconcilliation takes so much energy. i love him dearly, and we have lots to work on still, but as our mc also says, its always two steps forward and one step back, that this process of reconcilliation is never easy...i feel like this fog is the hardest part, when its all exposed and hes sorry and im hurt, but hes so damn lost. 

today i am hopeful. thanks again for all the input, it really helps me think about things from all different angles. i want to understand all this more than anything ~ ill b damned if i let this fog confuse me to.

i think alot of what everyone is saying, especially Acabado with the ego protection thing, is right. there seems to be so many levels of fog! i am thankful that we are beginning to talk more. this site has helped me express myself to him by tuning into what i am really bother by and understanding it from all points of view.


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

member2012 said:


> For myself, I had 3rd D day July 5th and my H has not spoken to OW for 3 weeks now which up until now he only lasted 16 days before he tried to have contact when he emailed her, and then 14 days later after not receiving any reply to his email to her, he called her.
> So I guess essentially he went 30 days without actual contact, but how do I count his attempts at contact? That was only 16 days....


His attempt was contact.

Her not answering was the only reason they did not talk. So I would consider the attempted phone call contact.


----------



## fredmila (Jan 24, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> The fog refers the fantasy built by the cheater. The affair partner is the most wonderful person in the world, while the loyal spouse of many years is terrible in every way. Life would be great with the affair partner, there would be no problems, life is terrible with the loyal spouse, there is not one thing to be happy about.
> 
> With the affair partner, none of life's unpleasant realities encroach. There are no bathrooms to clean, no chores to do, no grocery shopping, no cutting the grass, no wiping little butts, etc., nothing but I love you's and talk of sex and a happily-ever-after future together. With the loyal spouse, all of life's unpleasant realities exist. The cheater doesn't recognize this. They see the affair partner a few times a week and the affair partner always looks and acts their best. They live with their loyal spouse, and see all of the loyal spouse's blemishes. Also, the period of infatuation in any relationship lasts at most a couple of years. The cheater doesn't see that and believes that the "butterflies-in-the-stomach" feeling they have with their affair partner will last forever (even though it didn't last forever in any other relationship they ever had, including with their loyal spouse).
> 
> That is the affair fog that people refer to cheaters being in.


What is described here is exactly what my wife is going through, word for word. She has been bought and dazzled with presents and dinner dates. Now, I would like to ask, should I show her this description of her state now or wait until she is out of the fog and sees for herself? but then it could be too late. She has told me she is prepared to leave her children and me to go with the other man, and my 9 year old daughter heard her.....


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

fredmila said:


> What is described here is exactly what my wife is going through, word for word. She has been bought and dazzled with presents and dinner dates. Now, I would like to ask, should I show her this description of her state now or wait until she is out of the fog and sees for herself? but then it could be too late. She has told me she is prepared to leave her children and me to go with the other man, and my 9 year old daughter heard her.....


You only come out of the fog by going full no contact ... no contact whatsoever for a period of time. Think tow months straight. Once that is broken the clock starts over.

Only after that time I would do His Needs Her Needs with her. Set boundaries.

But the key i complete NC.

You need to open a thread under CWI and you will get some guidance.


----------



## fredmila (Jan 24, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> You only come out of the fog by going full no contact ... no contact whatsoever for a period of time. Think tow months straight. Once that is broken the clock starts over.
> 
> Only after that time I would do His Needs Her Needs with her. Set boundaries.
> 
> ...


Are you talking about no contact between my wife and I? 

The other thing that is happening is that my wife is excluding herself from our family (two small childen and I). I think she partly feels excluded because the kids and I have all the fun and laughs without her and she also does not want to participate in the fun. She locks herself in her room to avoid even hearing us having fun. Or she may be trying to convince herself that she will be OK without her children but in the company of the OM.


----------



## mad6r (Dec 31, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Fogspeak by a WW:
> 
> 
> H is physically and/or verbally abusive
> ...


I was all of the above to my WW, especially 2 and 4. After the 180 I believe she is finally coming out of her fog and since it's close to valentines day the POSOM probably kicked her to the curb already since he got what he wanted. She's been crying a lot from what I hear from the kids. She's facing her own sad reality now!


----------

