# Shouldn't we have it all??



## veryfrustrateddude

Ok, so I have read many posts about sex, sexual attraction, love languages, body weight changes, etc, etc., and I am just going to come right out with it and put it on the table. This is for the guys, and I want honest answers. I'm sure some of the ladies will enter the clubhouse and offer their opinions as well. Here's the deal...I have been married for 15 years, and for the past couple of years, my wife has been steadily gaining weight, to the point that I am no longer sexually attracted to her. When we married, she was about 120 lbs, very height-weight proportional, attractive, awesome. No issues. She's about 5'3 1/2. Now, she's probably at 160-165, and she has lost her shape, and it seems to not bother her. There is no effort to try to do everything to get back into shape. And, as we all know, this is a touchy subject. She's very kind, selfless, thoughtful, patient, all the attributes that any man would die for in a mate. She's a great mother as well to our children. There are no issues of infidelity, porn, or anything of that matter. We have a clean slate as it pertains to that. Many women wear that weight well, or have a few more inches of height to distribute it. 

I am a visual creature. I think most guys, if not all, are. A large part of my being able to draw near to her is being able to think about her sexually. To be able to think about her naked, think about looking at her body and saying to myself, "Wow, that's mine..I get to enjoy that". That was once the case, but it no longer is. Listen, I know we all change as we age. But I believe in fighting that tooth and nail. Staying in shape is a definite part of my own routine. I exercise several times a week, I do my part. I don't have a pot belly. I take care of myself. Isn't it ok to expect the same from my bride?? I am not trying to be Shallow Hal, but I am having a serious issue with attraction, and it is entirely connected to my wife's weight. It is difficult to look at an overweight belly and not be turned off by that. I am sorry, I am just being honest here. It's just not part of my makeup. Marriage is a composition of friendship love, commitment, and romantic love. One of the key elements of romantic love is passion and arousal. I love my wife, ok. I truly do, with all of my heart. But I have to be able to desire her as well. I just have to.

I am ready for many women to insult me and say how shallow I am, and how I should "love my wife no matter how much she weighs". I DO love my wife no matter how much she weighs. But I DON'T desire her sexually no matter how much she weighs. The two things are different. And I must have both in order to remain married. That may sound harsh, but what I hear my wife say to me by her not caring about her weight is "I don't care how I look for you". That's what I hear. And if I feel that way, where do we go from there? I believe this is a real issue, and that I am not the only guy that feels this way. Love should be unconditional, I agree. But I'm sorry, desire is not. And desire is crucial. I don't know how to suppress these feelings and overcome them. I do not view my wife as a sexual being anymore.


----------



## 225985

You're not the only guy that feels that way.


----------



## MJJEAN

You're not the only person who feels that way. Have you talked to your wife about it? Have you told her that you love her, but you aren't sexually attracted to her due to the weight gain? She can't fix a problem she doesn't know exists.


----------



## veryfrustrateddude

Yes, it has been mentioned, in as gentle a way possible.


----------



## lifeistooshort

And what was the response?

I think it's reasonable to ask that your spouse make some effort. Where some guys run into trouble is when they base expectations on unreasonable criteria.....ie porn or celebrities.

Those aren't real. 

But your wife should make some effort if it bothers you.


----------



## veryfrustrateddude

Honestly, I do not think it's my duty to ask her to work out for me anymore, or refine her diet so as to be able to lose the weight. It is so difficult not to be so incredibly frustrated about it. To me, she should want to look her best for me, same as I do for her, that should be a no-brainer. I'm telling you, what I hear every time I look at her is "I really don't care how I look for you". All I can do is continue to exercise myself, eat right, and try to maintain my physique. With her knowledge that it is an issue, and her failure to do anything towards changing that, it's going to be difficult to work around. I WANT TO WANT MY WIFE IN ADDITION TO LOVING EVERYTHING ABOUT HER CHARACTER. For a guy, for me, WANTING her is such an integral part in how we relate to one another. It makes everything come together.


----------



## lifeistooshort

So your wife should read your mind?

Maybe she doesn't realize how much she's put on, or maybe she's not clear on how much it bothers you. 

It's not fair to assume she realizes how much it bothers you. 

Let me ask you this: do you want her where she was or do you want reasonable efforts from her?

Have you invited her to the gym with you, or offered to watch the kids while she goes? These are ways to subtlety drop the hint.


----------



## Wolf1974

veryfrustrateddude said:


> Honestly, I do not think it's my duty to ask her to work out for me anymore, or refine her diet so as to be able to lose the weight. It is so difficult not to be so incredibly frustrated about it. *To me, she should want to look her best *for me, same as I do for her, that should be a no-brainer. I'm telling you, what I hear every time I look at her is "I really don't care how I look for you". All I can do is continue to exercise myself, eat right, and try to maintain my physique. With her knowledge that it is an issue, and her failure to do anything towards changing that, it's going to be difficult to work around. I WANT TO WANT MY WIFE IN ADDITION TO LOVING EVERYTHING ABOUT HER CHARACTER. For a guy, for me, WANTING her is such an integral part in how we relate to one another. It makes everything come together.


This is as fallible as the female argument " he should want to to do the dishes". Truth is that she doesn't see this as an issue, you do and rightfully so. You just need to be honest here and say that you love her but are losing attraction to her. Yes she will be upset most likely but here is the thing you CAN'T deal with what is not acknowledged.

Now me personally I am never one to drop a problem with no solution. Maybe you could offer to do the cooking of healthier meals or make a workout routine for the both of you since this comes more naturally to you.


----------



## prunus

veryfrustrateddude said:


> Yes, it has been mentioned, in as gentle a way possible.


Mentioned in what way? Did you hint at it? Or, did you come out say it...Dear _____ I love you very much, but we need to talk. Your weight no longer makes you sexually attracted to you? I would react completely differently to those two things.


----------



## Bibi1031

If the situation has become a deal breaker for you, then brutal honesty needs to be used.

There is no other way around it but through it with honest communication. 

What would you rather do than the above that will work and you will not lose your marriage?


----------



## Lostme

You really need to tell her how to feel, you are talking about ending a marriage due to weight and that is your prerogative. But if you have not told her how you truly feel, don't you think she has a right to know the real reason you have one foot out the door.

I'm not slamming you at all about wanting to desire your wife, I just think that you need to bring it out in the open with her.


----------



## Faithful Wife

veryfrustrateddude said:


> Honestly, I do not think it's my duty to ask her to work out for me anymore, or refine her diet so as to be able to lose the weight. It is so difficult not to be so incredibly frustrated about it. To me, she should want to look her best for me, same as I do for her, that should be a no-brainer. I'm telling you, what I hear every time I look at her is "I really don't care how I look for you". *All I can* *do* is continue to exercise myself, eat right, and try to maintain my physique. With her knowledge that it is an issue, and her failure to do anything towards changing that, it's going to be difficult to work around. I WANT TO WANT MY WIFE IN ADDITION TO LOVING EVERYTHING ABOUT HER CHARACTER. For a guy, for me, WANTING her is such an integral part in how we relate to one another. It makes everything come together.


No, you need to do more. You need to make sure she understands how you truly feel. It doesn't matter if this will hurt her feelings (and it will), but she needs to know that her marriage is in danger. You are vulnerable to an affair because of this issue. Not saying you would have one, but that's just the facts of life. Marriages are always vulnerable to affairs anyway and need steps taken to protect it. Those steps need to be taken by YOU. It is your duty to her to make sure she understands that you have literally lost all sexual attraction to her. 

Even though you have "mentioned" it to her, this doesn't mean she understands you have lost all attraction to her that way now. You think it is implied in what you said to her, but it is not. Trust me, she doesn't understand. She will not until you talk more to her about it and be forthright about your true feelings.

You may want to check out Marriage Builders. They use a philosophy which helps couples understand that if we neglect each others basic emotional needs in marriage, then we are always putting our marriage at risk. Slowly over time, we stop being in love with our spouses if they don't meet our emotional needs.

One of the emotional needs that some people have is for an attractive spouse. This is a legitimate need and is not shameful to have (I have a high need for an attractive spouse, too). Through understanding the MB literature and program, you will understand this about yourself better too and then if you can get your wife to understand it, there is hope.

Another useful part of MB is the idea of radical honesty. This is how you would tell your wife the real truth about your lack of sexual attraction for her.

Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice

Physical Attractiveness


----------



## jld

Have you thought through divorce? Really sat down and done the math, and are ready to face that reality?

Are you ready for your kids to know why you may be initiating this possible divorce? Or, once your wife hears your concerns, she will?


----------



## Betrayedone

Happy to say this topic has been discussed logically and with compassion and without criticism.........This is a big issue for men......and rightfully for women as well. We all need to be cognizant of our appearance to the best of our ability.


----------



## 2inthemorning

brutal honesty is a good way to start. theres no cushioning the blow really its like coming out of the closet ( no offence ) .. you just have to do it and be supportive. tell her you would like her to lose some weight and make that effort with her. you'll have to play a pivoting role because it really doesnt sound like shes bothered by her weight or her attraction level. so your gonna have to do alot but the best way to go is to sit down and talk to her about it. and you take it from there, tell her you'll start working out together, eat healthier and make it a couples thing. so its up to you to sit down and talk to her and her to make some compromise towards your needs and put in the effort to look better/get in shape.


----------



## wild jade

veryfrustrateddude said:


> Honestly, I do not think it's my duty to ask her to work out for me anymore, or refine her diet so as to be able to lose the weight. It is so difficult not to be so incredibly frustrated about it. To me, she should want to look her best for me, same as I do for her, that should be a no-brainer. I'm telling you, what I hear every time I look at her is "I really don't care how I look for you". All I can do is continue to exercise myself, eat right, and try to maintain my physique. With her knowledge that it is an issue, and her failure to do anything towards changing that, it's going to be difficult to work around. I WANT TO WANT MY WIFE IN ADDITION TO LOVING EVERYTHING ABOUT HER CHARACTER. For a guy, for me, WANTING her is such an integral part in how we relate to one another. It makes everything come together.


My husband gained a lot of weight, and I too find it a turn off. But I don't think of it as something he has done to me. No, it's something he's done to himself. 

People gain weight for all kinds of reasons and it can be real struggle to lose. 

I get that you want to want her. But taking it personally isn't doing either of you any favors.


----------



## wild jade

Faithful Wife said:


> One of the emotional needs that some people have is for an attractive spouse. This is a legitimate need and is not shameful to have (I have a high need for an attractive spouse, too). Through understanding the MB literature and program, you will understand this about yourself better too and then if you can get your wife to understand it, there is hope.


I would think this a dangerous need for LTR. Not very many of us get prettier as we get older, and most can decline quite remarkably.

What does one do then? Trade in for someone better?


----------



## jld

wild jade said:


> I would think this a dangerous need for LTR. Not very many of us get prettier as we get older, and most can decline quite remarkably.
> 
> What does one do then? Trade in for someone better?


Probably, if they can.

That seems to be the reality of the relationship marketplace: people seek what they can get, whether in terms of physical attraction, or money, or sense of humor, or intelligence, or emotional comfort, or not being such a pita, or whatever it is that is desired.


----------



## Cosmos

Betrayedone said:


> Happy to say this topic has been discussed logically and with compassion and without criticism.........This is a big issue for men......and rightfully for women as well. We all need to be cognizant of our appearance to the best of our ability.


It is, isn't it?

It really is pretty much the same with women, you know, but many won't admit it because... well, that isn't what 'good' women are supposed to do, is it? Historically, we've been taught to lie to men and only tell them things that make them feel good about themselves. Openness and honesty are far healthier options, though.

The OP has every right to his feelings about his W's weight gain, and he really does need to let her know to what extent it's affecting his attraction towards her, and if she isn't listening to his gentle hints, perhaps it's time to lay his cards completely on the table with her.


----------



## 225985

wild jade said:


> I would think this a dangerous need for LTR. Not very many of us get prettier as we get older, and most can decline quite remarkably.
> 
> 
> 
> What does one do then? Trade in for someone better?




OP is specifically referring to the wife's weight, not her normal aging. Weight is a manageable issue.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

OP, first you need to get honest.

You don't work out and stay fit and trim for HER, you do it for *yourself*. She benefits from it of course, but you do it for YOU, not her. You're trying to spin this like it's a sacrifice you make in order to please _her _so she should be thinking and doing the same thing for you.

I call bullsh*t because I can guarantee you if you were single, you'd STILL be doing exactly what you're doing *now* to maintain your physique. 

There are plenty of people perfectly comfortable in their own skin, and she just happens to be one of them (unfortunately for you). She's become complacent and probably isn't aware of how much of an issue this really IS for you.

I completely understand your problem with loving her but not being sexually attracted to her. 

Not a fan of self help books or Dr. Harley from the Marriage Builder's site, but they have a list of the 5 top things men and women seek in a partner, and the need for a physically attractive partner is #3 on the men's list. That doesn't even get into the top #5 for the women. LOL.

My point is, you're not alone. Not by a long shot.

How to convey this to your wife without starting World War III? That, indeed, is the $64,000 question.

Maybe you can ask her t embark on a new health and fitness plan together?


----------



## jld

I think it would be a real favor to her for you to be completely transparent with her, OP.


----------



## Duguesclin

No only should you be transparent to her, but she should be to you as well.

A likely scenario is you telling her you have lost attraction to her and her telling you she does not care. Or she makes a list of stuff she does for the marriage and you don't.

Who knows, she may have lost attraction to you as well. Like you are not inspiring her. It would be useful for you to know.

Do you know if your wife is attracted to you?

Why should she change for you?


----------



## wild jade

blueinbr said:


> OP is specifically referring to the wife's weight, not her normal aging. Weight is a manageable issue.


I think it's mostly the same difference. Of course one can always lose weight -- but one also has to be willing to adopt a certain sort of lifestyle to do so. Women are already more likely to store fat than men, and this increases as we get older and after kids.

The need is said to be for an attractive spouse. It doesn't specify amount of control. And we can fight aging with cosmetic surgery, botox, make-up. If "attractive" is a need, do we insist on these things as well?


----------



## lifeistooshort

wild jade said:


> I think it's mostly the same difference. Of course one can always lose weight -- but one also has to be willing to adopt a certain sort of lifestyle to do so. Women are already more likely to store fat than men, and this increases as we get older and after kids.
> 
> The need is said to be for an attractive spouse. It doesn't specify amount of control. And we can fight aging with cosmetic surgery, botox, make-up. If "attractive" is a need, do we insist on these things as well?


Good points. That's why I asked OP if he wants her as she was, or if he's looking for her to make a reasonable effort.

To me the later is reasonable.....we just have to understand that what we get for our effort can change as we get older, so if he's looking for her to be as she was that may not be reasonable.

And it's been my experience that many men don't see themselves as they really are.....they see themselves as they were 20 years ago, so they expect it from their wives as well. Women probably do this to a lesser extent, but I think thanks to media we're a tad more aware of the fact that we're getting older.

Not all men of course, just some. 

If he wants reasonable effort that's understandable, but I think he should start with things like inviting her to the gym and offering to watch the kids so she can go. And he can start cooking some healthy meals for he family. 

If that doesn't work he can have a gentle, loving conversation with her.

We do tend to hold more fat than men but I think a lot of men like that. It's what gives us our womanly shape.....women who lose too much fat start to look a little masculine.


----------



## lifeistooshort

She'sStillGotIt said:


> OP, first you need to get honest.
> 
> *You don't work out and stay fit and trim for HER, you do it for yourself[/B]. She benefits from it of course, but you do it for YOU, not her. You're trying to spin this like it's a sacrifice you make in order to please her so she should be thinking and doing the same thing for you.
> 
> I call bullsh*t because I can guarantee you if you were single, you'd STILL be doing exactly what you're doing now to maintain your physique.
> 
> There are plenty of people perfectly comfortable in their own skin, and she just happens to be one of them (unfortunately for you). She's become complacent and probably isn't aware of how much of an issue this really IS for you.
> 
> I completely understand your problem with loving her but not being sexually attracted to her.
> 
> Not a fan of self help books or Dr. Harley from the Marriage Builder's site, but they have a list of the 5 top things men and women seek in a partner, and the need for a physically attractive partner is #3 on the men's list. That doesn't even get into the top #5 for the women. LOL.
> 
> My point is, you're not alone. Not by a long shot.
> 
> How to convey this to your wife without starting World War III? That, indeed, is the $64,000 question.
> 
> Maybe you can ask her t embark on a new health and fitness plan together?*


*

Amen. I did 15 miles today for ME.....if it was for my hb i would've spent the last 3 miles calling him every four letter word I could think of.*


----------



## 225985

wild jade said:


> I think it's mostly the same difference. Of course one can always lose weight -- but one also has to be willing to adopt a certain sort of lifestyle to do so. Women are already more likely to store fat than men, and this increases as we get older and after kids.
> 
> The need is said to be for an attractive spouse. It doesn't specify amount of control. And we can fight aging with cosmetic surgery, botox, make-up. If "attractive" is a need, do we insist on these things as well?




No. Not the same difference. His issue is with her weight. He didn't mention botox. You can discuss that in another thread if you want a general discussion on ways to hide aging. 

Last month my father passed away. I saw relatives and old neighbors i had not seen in 30-40 years. Many women 50-55. I was very surprised that the women were very attractive at that age (don't attack me. It's not my thread). I previously thought 30-45 was my range for attractiveness.

It's very frustrating when you cook a healthy meal and 30 minutes later your spouse is eating ice cream. 

OP needs to dig deeper and understand the cause of his wife's eating. I bet it is depression or stress related, indicating more relationship problems than he is willing to admit. Or notice. 

Everything in a relationship is interrelated. I was asleep while my wife gained 100 lbs and i am still dealing with the after effects. Through TAM my eyes are more open. I haven't solved the problems but at least I am aware of them. 

Ultimately she is responsible for her weight. But i am sure she is picking up signals either consciously or subconsciously that he is not happy with her appearance

OP needs to take a holistic approach to the problem. Not just tell her to go to the gym.


----------



## lifeistooshort

blueinbr said:


> No. Not the same difference. His issue is with her weight. He didn't mention botox. You can discuss that in another thread if you want a general discussion on ways to hide aging.
> 
> Last month my father passed away. I saw relatives and old neighbors i had not seen in 30-40 years. Many women 50-55. I was very surprised that the women were very attractive at that age (don't attack me. It's not my thread). I previously thought 30-45 was my range for attractiveness.
> 
> It's very frustrating when you cook a healthy meal and 30 minutes later your spouse is eating ice cream.
> 
> OP needs to dig deeper and understand the cause of his wife's eating. I bet it is depression or stress related, indicating more relationship problems than he is willing to admit. Or notice.
> 
> Everything in a relationship is interrelated. I was asleep while my wife gained 100 lbs and i am still dealing with the after effects. Through TAM my eyes are more open. I haven't solved the problems but at least I am aware of them.
> 
> Ultimately she is responsible for her weight. But i am sure she is picking up signals either consciously or subconsciously that he is not happy with her appearance
> 
> OP needs to take a holistic approach to the problem. Not just tell her to go to the gym.


What's your issue with ice cream?

Dems fightin' words.


----------



## Vega

If you have been feeling this way for a few years, AND YOU HAVE STILL BEEN HAVING SEX WITH YOUR WIFE DURING THAT TIME, she just might think that you're bat sheet crazy. After all, if you're not "sexually attracted" to someone, you DON'T HAVE SEX WITH THEM, right? Because if you DO, you're pretty much just using them for sex and not really _that _"turned off" by their weight. 

At least, that's how your wife might think. 

No matter how gently you approach the subject, it's going to hurt her. And yes, she might become angry enough to where she starts losing the weight and then dumps you for being so shallow and hypocritical.


----------



## 225985

Vega said:


> If you have been feeling this way for a few years, AND YOU HAVE STILL BEEN HAVING SEX WITH YOUR WIFE DURING THAT TIME, she just might think that you're bat sheet crazy. After all, if you're not "sexually attracted" to someone, you DON'T HAVE SEX WITH THEM, right? Because if you DO, you're pretty much just using them for sex and not really _that _"turned off" by their weight.
> 
> 
> 
> At least, that's how your wife might think.
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how gently you approach the subject, it's going to hurt her. And yes, she might become angry enough to where she starts losing the weight and then dumps you for being so shallow and hypocritical.




It could be the boiled frog scenario. Most likely he has been slowly losing attraction as her weight gone up until a break point was reached. 

He is not being shallow. He is trying to address the issue.


----------



## Lila

blueinbr said:


> It could be the boiled frog scenario. Most likely he has been slowly losing attraction as her weight gone up until a break point was reached.
> 
> He is not being shallow. *He is trying to address the issue.*


Actually, he's not trying to address anything if his post below is any indication. 



veryfrustrateddude said:


> Honestly, I do not think it's my duty to ask her to work out for me anymore, or refine her diet so as to be able to lose the weight. It is so difficult not to be so incredibly frustrated about it. To me, she should want to look her best for me, same as I do for her, that should be a no-brainer. I'm telling you, what I hear every time I look at her is "I really don't care how I look for you". All I can do is continue to exercise myself, eat right, and try to maintain my physique. With her knowledge that it is an issue, and her failure to do anything towards changing that, it's going to be difficult to work around. I WANT TO WANT MY WIFE IN ADDITION TO LOVING EVERYTHING ABOUT HER CHARACTER. For a guy, for me, WANTING her is such an integral part in how we relate to one another. It makes everything come together.


He's hoping she'll figure it out herself but as @Vega said, she'll never believe that he's lost sexual attraction for her if he's still having sex with her.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## wild jade

blueinbr said:


> No. Not the same difference. His issue is with her weight. He didn't mention botox. You can discuss that in another thread if you want a general discussion on ways to hide aging.
> 
> Last month my father passed away. I saw relatives and old neighbors i had not seen in 30-40 years. Many women 50-55. I was very surprised that the women were very attractive at that age (don't attack me. It's not my thread). I previously thought 30-45 was my range for attractiveness.
> 
> It's very frustrating when you cook a healthy meal and 30 minutes later your spouse is eating ice cream.


Looks is looks is looks. 

Listen, trust me, I get how unattractive weight gain is. I live with it every day, and know what it means to lose attraction to the one you love. 



blueinbr said:


> OP needs to take a holistic approach to the problem. Not just tell her to go to the gym.


Exactly my point! 

Fat shaming or nagging, or scowling every time someone eats a bowl of ice cream ain't a solution. It just makes everyone more miserable. Sometimes -- actually always -- you don't get to have it all. People aren't perfect. 

And when it comes to beauty or attractiveness a whole lot can go wrong as we grow older. Ultimately, I think anyone who wants a life partner is going to have to suck that up. Or keep trading in.


----------



## 225985

Lila said:


> He's hoping she'll figure it out herself


I certainly hope that is not the case. BTDT. Didn't work. The problem just got worse.


----------



## MEM2020

VFD,
Why don't you actually say anything at all about your sex life in the post below?

You talk about desire, but not sex. If you have lost desire, how is that not obvious to your wife (from now on she is V2). 

If what you say is true, than you have stopped initiating right? If so, does she initiate or have you simply stopped having sex entirely. 

You asked for honest answers, but haven't provided a true picture of what is happening. 

My guess - you are still having regular sex - or you would have said you weren't. Its kind of obvious why you are leaving that part out, but no one can help you without that information. 







veryfrustrateddude said:


> Ok, so I have read many posts about sex, sexual attraction, love languages, body weight changes, etc, etc., and I am just going to come right out with it and put it on the table. This is for the guys, and I want honest answers. I'm sure some of the ladies will enter the clubhouse and offer their opinions as well. Here's the deal...I have been married for 15 years, and for the past couple of years, my wife has been steadily gaining weight, to the point that I am no longer sexually attracted to her. When we married, she was about 120 lbs, very height-weight proportional, attractive, awesome. No issues. She's about 5'3 1/2. Now, she's probably at 160-165, and she has lost her shape, and it seems to not bother her. There is no effort to try to do everything to get back into shape. And, as we all know, this is a touchy subject. She's very kind, selfless, thoughtful, patient, all the attributes that any man would die for in a mate. She's a great mother as well to our children. There are no issues of infidelity, porn, or anything of that matter. We have a clean slate as it pertains to that. Many women wear that weight well, or have a few more inches of height to distribute it.
> 
> I am a visual creature. I think most guys, if not all, are. A large part of my being able to draw near to her is being able to think about her sexually. To be able to think about her naked, think about looking at her body and saying to myself, "Wow, that's mine..I get to enjoy that". That was once the case, but it no longer is. Listen, I know we all change as we age. But I believe in fighting that tooth and nail. Staying in shape is a definite part of my own routine. I exercise several times a week, I do my part. I don't have a pot belly. I take care of myself. Isn't it ok to expect the same from my bride?? I am not trying to be Shallow Hal, but I am having a serious issue with attraction, and it is entirely connected to my wife's weight. It is difficult to look at an overweight belly and not be turned off by that. I am sorry, I am just being honest here. It's just not part of my makeup. Marriage is a composition of friendship love, commitment, and romantic love. One of the key elements of romantic love is passion and arousal. I love my wife, ok. I truly do, with all of my heart. But I have to be able to desire her as well. I just have to.
> 
> I am ready for many women to insult me and say how shallow I am, and how I should "love my wife no matter how much she weighs". I DO love my wife no matter how much she weighs. But I DON'T desire her sexually no matter how much she weighs. The two things are different. And I must have both in order to remain married. That may sound harsh, but what I hear my wife say to me by her not caring about her weight is "I don't care how I look for you". That's what I hear. And if I feel that way, where do we go from there? I believe this is a real issue, and that I am not the only guy that feels this way. Love should be unconditional, I agree. But I'm sorry, desire is not. And desire is crucial. I don't know how to suppress these feelings and overcome them. I do not view my wife as a sexual being anymore.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Thanks to everyone for all of their replies, I have not had the opportunity to respond, but it has been a good thread. No, I haven't provided every detail, as I did not wish to become too long-winded. As far as asking my wife to go to the gym, etc, she has been more active in the past, and largely liked to do classes, etc. With our schedules, and children, it's not practical. She's not the type to want to go to the gym with me and do my workouts with me. Just not her thing, and that's ok. As far as our sex life, it is very infrequent. I hold much anger, resentment, blame, and frustration towards her for not taking care of herself. I am sure that comes across. Essentially, we are friends at this point. I no longer think of her as a sexual being. I have no desire for her. That would all change, I am certain, if there was any sort of visual attraction. And listen, I get all of this "when we get older, we all deteriorate" kind of arguments. That happens to us all. I am NOT talking about that. It's simple---I want to desire my wife, and if I cannot, then I cannot draw near to her in a full way. I cannot make love to a flabby belly, unless I also have a flabby belly, and then it cancels out. I don't WANT to feel this way, but I do. My body is my wife's and her body is mine. Am I being unreasonable? If my wife even TRIED to get into shape, it would be a start. I would notice that. I am tired of the baggy clothes. I am tired of the sweatpants. I am tired of the ball caps.


----------



## GusPolinski

veryfrustratedude said:


> Thanks to everyone for all of their replies, I have not had the opportunity to respond, but it has been a good thread. No, I haven't provided every detail, as I did not wish to become too long-winded. As far as asking my wife to go to the gym, etc, she has been more active in the past, and largely liked to do classes, etc. With our schedules, and children, it's not practical. She's not the type to want to go to the gym with me and do my workouts with me. Just not her thing, and that's ok. As far as our sex life, it is very infrequent. I hold much anger, resentment, blame, and frustration towards her for not taking care of herself. I am sure that comes across. Essentially, we are friends at this point. I no longer think of her as a sexual being. I have no desire for her. That would all change, I am certain, if there was any sort of visual attraction. And listen, I get all of this "when we get older, we all deteriorate" kind of arguments. That happens to us all. I am NOT talking about that. It's simple---I want to desire my wife, and if I cannot, then I cannot draw near to her in a full way. I cannot make love to a flabby belly, unless I also have a flabby belly, and then it cancels out. I don't WANT to feel this way, but I do. My body is my wife's and her body is mine. Am I being unreasonable? If my wife even TRIED to get into shape, it would be a start. I would notice that. I am tired of the baggy clothes. I am tired of the sweatpants. I am tired of the ball caps.


Maybe tell all of that to her, and in a not-quite-so-gentle way.

As far as your schedules go, maybe take some of what she usually deals with off of her so that she has time to go to the gym.

Or buy some gym equipment for the house.

ETA: What's with the second account?


----------



## john117

jld said:


> Have you thought through divorce? Really sat down and done the math, and are ready to face that reality?


Reality will sink in once he plots dollars in the horizontal axis and pounds in the vertical axis...

So, what's the OP to do when she improves now, time passes, and they're both 50 and she doesn't pass muster? 55? 60?

Stick around in any marriage board and a couple dozen pounds are the least of anyone's concerns... I'm not trying to trivialize your issue, but I'm in a rather crappy marriage yet my wife at 57 puts most 40-45 year olds to shame. For all the good that has done.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

I had to create a different profile name, changed it by one letter, because I kept getting an error with my password, etc, couldn't change it, so I just made a new one, kept it very similar to old one. I don't know if anyone else has had trouble logging in, etc, maybe it's a website issue.

Here's the tricky thing about getting in shape, exercise..I do help her as much as I am able with our children. If I am not working, I offer to help. I drive the kids to soccer, pick them up from school, take them to school(which I enjoy all of these things anyway, of course), take our daughter to cello, give my wife "free days" with no responsibilities. I do all of the yard work, cook for the family fairly often. I always check in with her when I leave work to ask if she needs anything. She does not work, so during the school months, she has time from 8am to 3pm with which she could squeeze it in if she wants to. I do, and I work probably 60 hours a week, sometimes more hours. And as far as losing weight---anyone who wants to do it can do it. It's 75% diet and 25% exercise.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Have you discussed this with your wife in a loving manner?

The problem you have is that since you made it obvious you resent her even if she were to decide to get into shape she'll likely never forget your attitude and it will effect how much she wants you. 

That's why it's so important to discuss things like this in a loving manner before you start getting mad about it. 

Do you even know what your wife thinks about her level of fitness? Does it bother her?

Is there any chance she doesn't actually want sex with you and thus ignores the weight so you'll leave her alone?


----------



## veryfrustratedude

"Do you even know what your wife thinks about her level of fitness? Does it bother her?"

This is a good question, but I would submit that the answer lies in whether or not she does something about it. I mean, isn't it reasonable to surmise that if something bothers someone, and there's a way to change it(diet and exercise), and if there are no efforts to change it, then it really doesn't bother her. There are plenty of people who simply do not care or wish to put forth the effort to maintain a reasonable body weight, and that's certainly ok. I am not trying to be difficult, I am just being honest. And no, that's not the issue at all, her not wanting to have sex with me.


----------



## notmyrealname4

veryfrustrateddude said:


> There are no issues of *infidelity, porn, or anything of that matter. *We have a clean slate as it pertains to that.


Congratulations on the above^^^. That's always a biggie to me. I believe that when a spouse (usually the H, but not *always*) looks to porn for stimulation and inspiration; it can cause the wife to feel like "why bother, I can never measure up to that kind of standard or expectation".


So, that possibility out of the way; I feel for you. I absolutely agree that we should maintain our attractiveness to the best of our abilities. Normal aging notwithstanding.

Note, she gets to have a fit spouse whenever she has sex. Don't know if that's a factor here. But some folks do feel entitled to an attractive mate; without putting in any effort to maintain their own bodies. Maybe she doesn't care either way. But if you gained bunch of weight, do you think she'd notice? Does she remark on any aspect of your appearance.?


----------



## lifeistooshort

It's not always as simple as thinking that if it bothered her she'd do something about it.

I'm saying this as one who's going to put in 45 miles this week, so you know I'm not projecting.

Losing weight can be a very daunting task, and when a person feels terrible about themselves it can be hard to get motivated.

Factor in a spouse that's obviously angry and resentful, thus sending the message that you're disgusting, and that can make motivation even harder to find. It's akin to fat shaming, which often has the opposite mental effect of what was intended.

As I've said before, I understand why a lot of weight gain would bother you. If my hb put on a lot of weight I wouldn't like it either. 

So I'll ask again: have you had a frank but loving discussion with her? Have you asked her if there's a fitness class she'd like to attend while you stay with the kids? Are you cooking or suggesting healthy meals and what is her response?

I still feel like you're penalizing her without actually having made clear how you feel about this.


----------



## Duguesclin

OP, is your wife happy?


----------



## wild jade

lifeistooshort said:


> It's not always as simple as thinking that if it bothered her she'd do something about it.
> 
> I'm saying this as one who's going to put in 45 miles this week, so you know I'm not projecting.
> 
> Losing weight can be a very daunting task, and when a person feels terrible about themselves it can be hard to get motivated.
> 
> Factor in a spouse that's obviously angry and resentful, thus sending the message that you're disgusting, and that can make motivation even harder to find. It's akin to fat shaming, which often has the opposite mental effect of what was intended.
> 
> .


Yes, exactly! It isn't just as simple as "if this bothers me I would do something about it". When a person feels terrible about themselves or how they look (or both), summoning any sort of motivation to get fit or eat right is impossible.

It is a form of hopelessness and a "why bother because I'm ugly and it won't make any difference anyway."


----------



## 225985

wild jade said:


> Yes, exactly! It isn't just as simple as "if this bothers me I would do something about it". When a person feels terrible about themselves or how they look (or both), summoning any sort of motivation to get fit or eat right is impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a form of hopelessness and a "why bother because I'm ugly and it won't make any difference anyway."




Yeah, well, the motivation is to stay married. Will she feel better being divorced?


----------



## jld

blueinbr said:


> Yeah, well, the motivation is to stay married. Will she feel better being divorced?


I think so. Especially after he has that transparent talk with her.


----------



## wild jade

blueinbr said:


> Yeah, well, the motivation is to stay married. Will she feel better being divorced?


Yes, that's probably what it boils down to. But having that threat over her head stands a good chance of making her feel even worse about herself and more deeply mired in that negative cycle.

Being single, though, might be an even better motivator. Or not. Depends on her.


----------



## 225985

jld said:


> I think so. Especially after he has that transparent talk with her.




You just made the point that honesty leads to divorce.


----------



## jld

blueinbr said:


> You just made the point that honesty leads to divorce.


It may. I don't see it as a negative.

You do not want to make an idol out of staying married, blue. You want to stay married because that is the healthiest path for both you and your wife.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.

This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her. Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense. It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.


----------



## 225985

Pay her $500 for every pound she loses and keeps off.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

🤔


----------



## Bibi1031

Good start!

Can you go buy her an outfit that you would enjoy she wears? Make sure it is a size smaller than what she wears now. Let her know that you would love to have her wear it, let's say in a month or so, for a special dinner/date just for the two of you. I think that will be a good incentive and it will also let you know if she understands the importance of trying to please you and becoming healthier as well.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Sounds like a great conversation. Great job telling her that you do love her unconditionally, but passion is separate from love.

Is it your feeling that she was receptive?

That was an important conversation.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Lifeistooshort, yes, I think she was receptive. I know those words are difficult to hear. I needed her to know that, from the depth of my being, that it is something that I am struggling with. I do not like the emotions that have been coming to the surface within me over the past many months. They are not conducive to a healthy relationship. Furthermore, if I was unwilling to say anything, then it would only get worse. As a matter of fact, the more in-shape I would become, the more resentment I would have, assuredly, and I greatly enjoy a regular rigorous regimen. I am glad we talked. Now, we'll see if there are any results. I cannot and will not attempt to control what she does or does not do. I am not going to hover over her, gawking at her, shaming her, or make her feel guilty. I can't control that. All I can do myself is take care of myself physically, for myself, and try to do everything in my power to be supportive. Thank you for your responses.


----------



## Satya

Great talk! 

Consider a Home gym expansion or Women's gym membership as a new years gift. I love our home gym.


----------



## WoundedTiger

She needs a motivation to work out and it has to become a way of life, otherwise I doubt she will remain fit if she should manage to lose some by dieting. 

Getting fit is hard work. That's why so many don't wanna do it despite all health benefits. 

Eventually, it will be up to you if it is acceptable to give her a choice -> fit or divorce. If she yields and gets fit, she will thank you forever and if not, it's your choice to live with someone you find unattractive for the rest of your life. The choice seems easy..


----------



## jld

veryfrustratedude said:


> Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.
> 
> This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her. Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense.* It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). *I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.


Why did you not tell her the bolded?

You need to tell her everything, OP. That is what transparent means.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Jld, I didn't tell her that part because I feel like the choice to work out primarily has to come from within, for herself. I do not want her to workout out of fear of loss of our marriage. I only wanted to make her aware of how her weight is affecting my desire for her. In a sense, overall it can't be "about me". In a sense, it's a shot across the bow, that I am not neutral when it comes to fitness, when it comes to weight gain, that desiring her is something I must have. I want her to want to take care of herself, for herself, and sure, I want to benefit from it as well. She can't be thinking "I've got to do this or else", I want her to think "I'm going to take care of myself. I want to do this. I want to eat better, lose weight, and be more attractive to my husband". I cannot get tied up emotionally in all of it. All I can do is hope things change, and give her every encouragement and opportunity to accomplish her goals.


----------



## jld

veryfrustratedude said:


> Jld, I didn't tell her that part because I feel like the choice to work out primarily has to come from within, for herself. I do not want her to workout out of fear of loss of our marriage. I only wanted to make her aware of how her weight is affecting my desire for her. In a sense, overall it can't be "about me". In a sense, it's a shot across the bow, that I am not neutral when it comes to fitness, when it comes to weight gain, that desiring her is something I must have. I want her to want to take care of herself, for herself, and sure, I want to benefit from it as well. She can't be thinking "I've got to do this or else", I want her to think "I'm going to take care of myself. I want to do this. I want to eat better, lose weight, and be more attractive to my husband". I cannot get tied up emotionally in all of it. All I can do is hope things change, and give her every encouragement and opportunity to accomplish her goals.


That is up to her, OP. All you can do is be transparent with her, and let her make her own decisions.

And this is indeed "all about you." That is the reason you are considering divorce, correct?

Does she know that, btw?


----------



## Starstarfish

Not telling her that you expect her to want to lose weight without any motivation from you is a covert contract. You didn't tell her the whole truth but you'll be disappointed later when she fails to meet unstated expectations.


----------



## 225985

jld said:


> Why did you not tell her the bolded?
> 
> 
> 
> You need to tell her everything, OP. That is what transparent means.




No. He did right. Too much at one time is overwhelming. Let her first adjust to what was said. He can add more later.


----------



## jld

blueinbr said:


> No. He did right. Too much at one time is overwhelming. Let her first adjust to what was said. He can add more later.


I don't think so . . .


----------



## Starstarfish

> No. He did right. Too much at one time is overwhelming. Let her first adjust to what was said. He can add more later.


That's the same mentality cheaters use when they trickle truth, isn't it?


----------



## 225985

Not at all. Trickle truth is to protect the cheater. Trickle goals are to help the spouse. 

It is well known that a person undertaking too many significant goals / life habit changes is more likely to fail in all of them then someone with just a few focused goals at a time. 

Just focusing on the eating is a great start. Going for walks with her will improve the relationship and will pay dividends. 

I would bet my retirement that his actions towards the wife have contributed towards the problem. It was in my case. OP needs to commit to being a better husband, or at least recognize he can assist in a successful outcome with better emotional and mental support on his part. 

If he wants this to work he needs to do his part. It is not just about her. I made that mistake and am cautioning him not to do what I did.


----------



## Andy1001

veryfrustratedude said:


> Lifeistooshort, yes, I think she was receptive. I know those words are difficult to hear. I needed her to know that, from the depth of my being, that it is something that I am struggling with. I do not like the emotions that have been coming to the surface within me over the past many months. They are not conducive to a healthy relationship. Furthermore, if I was unwilling to say anything, then it would only get worse. As a matter of fact, the more in-shape I would become, the more resentment I would have, assuredly, and I greatly enjoy a regular rigorous regimen. I am glad we talked. Now, we'll see if there are any results. I cannot and will not attempt to control what she does or does not do. I am not going to hover over her, gawking at her, shaming her, or make her feel guilty. I can't control that. All I can do myself is take care of myself physically, for myself, and try to do everything in my power to be supportive. Thank you for your responses.


My gf ran a gym for years and she told me that the most important thing about any weight loss program is seeing results fairly quickly.There are some really advanced exercise machines around now and one of the best is a vacumn treadmill,you wear a heavy type of apron that fits tightly around your waist and forms a seal with the treadmill.If your wife is as overweight as you say she could lose three or four pounds after one week and that will provide her with the encouragement to carry on.She would probably need three half hour sessions a week initially but the immediate results can be a great boost.


----------



## 225985

jld said:


> I don't think so . . .




In my case it would overwhelm my wife and she would do nothing. And be worse off after hearing what was said. 

OP's words and actions need to be customized to fit his wife. Only he will know what to do. 

FWIW, i am working to improve my relationship with wife one issue at a time. I tried the "everything at once" approach earlier this year with bad results.


----------



## Starstarfish

Except this isn't improving everything at once. He is addressing one specific topic - her weight gain and it's affect on his physical attraction to her.

And more importantly his level of resentment over the fact she hasn't taken care of the issue herself. Him waiting to say that isn't going to magically clear up the resentment he feels, and expecting someone who resents having to be involved at all to take more of a lead I don't honestly see working. 

OP, you wanting her to become a self-motivated gym rat like yourself who wants to work out for the joy of working out, frankly is unlikely to happen. You want her to want to lose weight, and you want to dictate the reason she is doing so. You don't want to get "emotionally tied up in it." You are threatening to divorce over it - you are already emotionally tied up in it. 

And I can't speak for the experience between you and your wife, Blue, but I can speak as a woman who has lost a significant amount of weight and then regained some and trying to lose it again. I can speak to the effects a spouses support has on those efforts.


----------



## jld

Starstarfish said:


> OP, you wanting her to become a self-motivated gym rat like yourself who wants to work out for the joy of working out, frankly is unlikely to happen. You want her to want to lose weight, and you want to dictate the reason she is doing so. You don't want to get "emotionally tied up in it." You are threatening to divorce over it - you are already emotionally tied up in it.


Totally agree. 

Again, does she know you are considering divorce? 

Have you said, "I need to feel sexually attracted to you to stay married to you. And in order for me to feel that, you need to weigh 120 lbs. I also need you to do it because you want it, because it matters to me, and I want what matters to me to matter to you. You cannot just lose it out of fear. And I will give you until this date to lose the weight, and will arrange for you to have the time and money needed to accomplish this goal. If you do not succeed, I will file."

That is being clear, spelling things out to her, exactly as you see them.

That is indeed an accurate representation of your position, no?


----------



## soccermom2three

Wow, what bummer conversation to have on Christmas day.


----------



## jld

soccermom2three said:


> Wow, what bummer conversation to have on Christmas day.


A memory maker, for sure.


----------



## GuyInColorado

I left my wife after she left herself go. Dropping your kids off at school and seeing what some of those moms look like is an eye opener. Why can't she be like that for me? 

There were way bigger issues in our marriage but after she packed on the pounds, I was gone. No coming back. A year after I left, she's still overweight.


----------



## Vega

GuyInColorado said:


> I left my wife after she left herself go. Dropping your kids off at school and seeing what some of those moms look like is an eye opener. Why can't she be like that for me?
> 
> There were way bigger issues in our marriage but after she packed on the pounds, I was gone. No coming back. A year after I left, she's still overweight.


I can not imagine meeting a man and hearing him tell me that (one of) the reason(s) he divorced his wife was because she had gained weight.


----------



## Married but Happy

Vega said:


> I can not imagine meeting a man and hearing him tell me that (one of) the reason(s) he divorced his wife was because she had gained weight.


It happens, though. Large weight gain can destroy attraction, their sex life, and intimacy. It can therefore destroy a marriage. It really isn't much different than leaving because your spouse refuses to have sex with you. I know a guy who did leave because of his wife's weight gain - but not that solely. She also refused intimacy, preferring food to having a relationship. He soon met someone else, and they have had a wonderful relationship for the past 25 years. I applaud his ability to have standards for himself and his relationship.

Food can be an addiction. You can't fix an addict (at best you can encourage them to get help and make it possible) - they have to choose to fix themselves. Many do not, and it is better to leave them to their self-destruction than be dragged down with them.


----------



## 225985

Vega said:


> I can not imagine meeting a man and hearing him tell me that (one of) the reason(s) he divorced his wife was because she had gained weight.




Why not? Certain people here are talking about needs being met, boundaries, total honesty etc. Is not that better than staying in an unhappy marriage?

Normally it us not just the weight gain but a lack of intimacy, motivation, affection that often go with it.


----------



## *Deidre*

I think sometimes we read or hear things like this and think that the person is shallow, that it's all about appearance. But, what it would show me if my fiance were to become totally out of shape, overweight, and unhealthy is that he doesn't care about his health or how he looks for me, because he ''has'' me. My fiance and I are very much into fitness, and it's amazing to have that chemistry together. If I were to become overweight or he was, and we just don't care to change it, it would send a message that we're taking each other for granted. A lot of times, I've seen people in long term relationships or marriages, they break up, and then one or the other person hits the gym, and becomes obsessed with looking good. It's like why didn't you do that for your partner? (not that you need to be obsessed, but you know what I mean?)

So, it's more than just a physical appearance thing, IMO. It goes way deeper than that.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Vega said:


> I can not imagine meeting a man and hearing him tell me that (one of) the reason(s) he divorced his wife was because she had gained weight.


I can. And it wouldn't automatically be a problem for me unless he specifically said that was the ONLY reason and if he sounded cruel or mean about it. I would try to determine from his words and attitude if he's just a mean person who would toss a loving wife for no other reason, didn't even talk to her about it first, or whatever.

But if it was something that was just part of an overall package of why the marriage went downhill, I hear that a lot, from both men and women.


----------



## Vega

Faithful Wife said:


> I can. And it wouldn't automatically be a problem for me unless he specifically said that was the ONLY reason and if he sounded cruel or mean about it. I would try to determine from his words and attitude if he's just a mean person who would toss a loving wife for no other reason, didn't even talk to her about it first, or whatever.
> 
> But if it was something that was just part of an overall package of why the marriage went downhill, I hear that a lot, from both men and women.


When I first met my late husband in college, he was 18. He was 5'7" and weighed all of 135 lbs. He started working out and put on some bulk. He loved working out so much that he became an instructor at the local Jack LaLane's. 

Several years later, he got into a serious life-threatening car accident. He was in the hospital for several months. His 52" chest sank to a 52" waist. He tried to get back into shape, but he also started travelling for work and simply didn't have much time. 

When we finally got together, he was 42. He also weighed 220lbs. I never had a problem with his weight. Never. After we were married, he gained even _more_ weight, eventually tipping the scales at his max weight of 285. Yeah, he broke a few chairs in the house, lol! 

Weight doesn't bother me. What bothers me is superficialness, selfishness, arrogance, controlling attitudes, manipulative anger and overall immaturity. Things that no 'diet' can cure. 

The OP realizes that some people might see him as being shallow, and frankly, I'm one of those people. If I decide to get back into the dating world, I'm wondering...

...if the OP DID eventually divorce his wife, and met *me* in a few months--knowing that some people might view him as shallow-- would he honestly tell me the REAL reason he left her?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Vega said:


> ...if the OP DID eventually divorce his wife, and met *me* in a few months--knowing that some people might view him as shallow-- would he honestly tell me the REAL reason he left her?


I would hope that he would. And I would hope that he would eventually match up with someone who understands his position. I also hope he would learn that not being radically honest can mean an expensive, messy divorce, and maybe next time he would at least try to address such an issue in a more forthright way and/or make it more clear upfront that he has a high need for an attractive spouse.


----------



## Starstarfish

How many people are honest about that up front?

My attraction and thus romantic love for you is conditional on you falling within these physical parameters. You need to keep falling within these parameters, and you need to want to or I won't feel attracted to you anymore and we'll need to divorce.

I mean, I wonder how many women who were kind of ambivalent about children would re-think having kids if that was told to them up front?


----------



## jld

Starstarfish said:


> How many people are honest about that up front?
> 
> My attraction and thus romantic love for you is conditional on you falling within these physical parameters. You need to keep falling within these parameters, and you need to want to or I won't feel attracted to you anymore and we'll need to divorce.


They probably do not know at the beginning all the things that might come up that could cause them to lose attraction. 

Losing their fitness, not making much money, becoming boring, not being ambitious, not being able to have children, not being honest, voting Republican () . . . All these and countless others are ways spouses can become less attractive to each other over time. 



> I mean, I wonder how many women who were kind of ambivalent about children would re-think having kids if that was told to them up front?


Or they might rethink the choice of husband.

I just do not see how openness and honesty can hurt a couple. I think it is the best way to prevent and solve problems, including the problem of marrying the wrong person.


----------



## Vega

jld said:


> I just do not see how openness and honesty can hurt a couple. *I think it is the best way to prevent and solve problems, including the problem of marrying the wrong person*.


Absolutely! But then again, how many people know _themselves_ well enough to be open and honest with _themselves_ AND, how many of THOSE people are willing to be open and honest about themselves _with another person UP FRONT?_


----------



## jld

Vega said:


> Absolutely! But then again, how many people know _themselves_ well enough to be open and honest with _themselves_ AND, how many of THOSE people are willing to be open and honest about themselves _with another person UP FRONT?_


I was. I did not want to waste either of our time. 

If there had been anything he could not accept about me, we could have just stopped things before they got started. No harm, no foul.


----------



## farsidejunky

Vega said:


> Absolutely! But then again, how many people know _themselves_ well enough to be open and honest with _themselves_ AND, how many of THOSE people are willing to be open and honest about themselves _with another person UP FRONT?_


I had some idea, but I also used to have the attitude that you married for life no matter what happens. 

That meant stuffing my feelings if someone did things that hurt, or that I found unattractive, for the sake of the marriage. Conversely, it also meant I did not have to worry about how my actions impacted attraction. In other words, the work stopped. It wasn't deliberate as much as it was automatic. It was the path of the "nice guy".

I no longer stuff things, nor do I believe marriage is forever through all things.


----------



## jld

farsidejunky said:


> I had some idea, but I also used to have the attitude that you married for life no matter what happens.
> 
> That meant stuffing my feelings if someone did things that hurt, or that I found unattractive, for the sake of the marriage. Conversely, it also meant I did not have to worry about how my actions impacted attraction. In other words, the work stopped. It wasn't deliberate as much as it was automatic. It was the path of the "nice guy".
> 
> I no longer stuff things, nor do I believe marriage is forever through all things.


I think Dug also believes marriage is for life. But I think to him that *includes* sharing your feelings, not stuffing them.

Far, if you had been honest and open from the get go, how do you think that would have impacted the relationship?


----------



## farsidejunky

jld said:


> I think Dug also believes marriage is for life. But I think to him that *includes* sharing your feelings, not stuffing them.
> 
> Far, if you had been honest and open from the get go, how do you think that would have impacted the relationship?


My wife and I probably would have divorced somewhere around 2007 or 2008.

That was the point where she was doing the physically harmful things to both her and me.


----------



## GuyInColorado

Because you have a $10k ring and a certificate from the state doesn't mean you can choose food over me and I won't take action. No different than choosing the bottle or drugs. I'll give you a fair warning and I'll go find someone else if you don't change. 

Marriage isn't a prison sentence. I feel sorry for fit husbands who have fat lazy wives. I notice it all the time now that I'm divorced. Mostly because they are miserable with their life/marriage, it's very sad.


----------



## 225985

jld said:


> I was. I did not want to waste either of our time.
> 
> If there had been anything he could not accept about me, we could have just stopped things before they got started. No harm, no foul.



@jld. You and Dug are the 1%.


----------



## Vega

farsidejunky said:


> I had some idea, but I also used to have the attitude that you married for life no matter what happens.
> 
> That meant stuffing my feelings if someone did things that hurt, or that I found unattractive, for the sake of the marriage. Conversely, it also meant I did not have to worry about how my actions impacted attraction. In other words, the work stopped. It wasn't deliberate as much as it was automatic. It was the path of the "nice guy".
> 
> I no longer stuff things, nor do I believe marriage is forever through all things.


I also believed that marriage *should be* for life.

But I also believe that people *should be* _honest_ and _truthful_ with each other or that there will be no marriage. Of course, even if they ARE honest and truthful BEFORE marriage, there STILL might not be a marriage. 

Unfortunately, too many people are selfish and only think of what THEY want. My late husband "wanted" me. He didn't care that *I* may _not_ have wanted _him_ as he was a lying, cheating, controlling a-hole. 

If someone lies to me or hides something from me that would otherwise cause me to *NOT* be with that person, all bets are off.


----------



## 225985

Vega said:


> When I first met my late husband in college, he was 18. He was 5'7" and weighed all of 135 lbs. He started working out and put on some bulk. He loved working out so much that he became an instructor at the local Jack LaLane's.
> 
> 
> 
> Several years later, he got into a serious life-threatening car accident. He was in the hospital for several months. His 52" chest sank to a 52" waist. He tried to get back into shape, but he also started travelling for work and simply didn't have much time.
> 
> 
> 
> When we finally got together, he was 42. He also weighed 220lbs. I never had a problem with his weight. Never. After we were married, he gained even _more_ weight, eventually tipping the scales at his max weight of 285. Yeah, he broke a few chairs in the house, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> Weight doesn't bother me. What bothers me is superficialness, selfishness, arrogance, controlling attitudes, manipulative anger and overall immaturity. Things that no 'diet' can cure.
> 
> 
> 
> The OP realizes that some people might see him as being shallow, and frankly, I'm one of those people. If I decide to get back into the dating world, I'm wondering...
> 
> 
> 
> ...if the OP DID eventually divorce his wife, and met *me* in a few months--knowing that some people might view him as shallow-- would he honestly tell me the REAL reason he left her?



Would you be willing to share what your late husband died from? That weight is very dangerous. 

Mrs Blue was at that weight for a while and had considerable health issues. I partially blame myself for the state of the marriage that contributed to her weight issue. 

And I'm still dealing with the aftermath.


----------



## Vega

blueinbr said:


> *Would you be willing to share what your late husband died from*? That weight is very dangerous.
> 
> Mrs Blue was at that weight for a while and had considerable health issues. I partially blame myself for the state of the marriage that contributed to her weight issue.
> 
> And I'm still dealing with the aftermath.


Sure, Blue :smile2:

He had his first and ONLY heart attack and passed away in his sleep. 

By the time he passed away, he also had a whole slew of health issues, including Type II Diabetes. His cholesterol levels were dangerously high and his triglyceride levels were off the charts. He was also taking 80mgs. of 'baby aspirin' every day. 

He did not change his diet.
He did not change his lifestyle.

He passed away at 57.


----------



## MEM2020

Very,

This is a very difficult situation to be in. And like many partners - you are struggling with both the message - and the intensity of the message. And on top of that, you are angry and highly conflicted. 

Highly conflicted is bad. Because you end up contradicting yourself. Which you very much have done. You cannot say: I love you unconditionally.

And then turn around and say: But I'm divorcing you because you seem indifferent to my need to desire you. 

----------------
The worst - worst - worst - thing you can do in a marriage - is bluff on divorce. Nothing is more toxic. 
----------------

It is ok to have deal breakers. But then acknowledge them and don't claim to love her unconditionally. You are trying to have it both ways. That won't work. She won't trust you if you contradict yourself on something this major. 


*I DO love my wife no matter how much she weighs. But I DON'T desire her sexually no matter how much she weighs. The two things are different. And I must have both in order to remain married. That may sound harsh, but what I hear my wife say to me by her not caring about her weight is "I don't care how I look for you".*







veryfrustratedude said:


> Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.
> 
> This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her. Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense. It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.


----------



## 225985

I don't see any contradiction. He loves his wife but feels no physical attraction to her. The two are separate issues and act on different parts of the brain.

I love my mother. My family. My dog. I feel no physical attraction to them. 

I also feel physical attraction to some persons, but not love. 

He is clearly saying that love is not enough. You can love a spouse and still leave them.


----------



## MEM2020

Blue,
As far as your comments below - we are in total agreement. Love and desire can be completely separate feelings even in a marriage. 

However, many people would interpret a husbands assertion of unconditional love, to be in direct contradiction to an intention to divorce. 

And ambiguity is best avoided in any communications that might lead to divorce. 

And fwiw - I understand why the OP is upset. This isn't about health or a car accident. It is about priorities. 

Thing is, if it was me, I would have started with a question, not a comment: 

Do you miss the passion and the intensely physical part of our marriage? 

Maybe she doesn't. Most folks, if you remove something they really want, they ask about it, maybe even complain about it. For now it is a mystery as to why she hasn't done that. 

If she doesn't miss sex, or worse is relieved at its absence this requires a whole different approach. 





blueinbr said:


> I don't see any contradiction. He loves his wife but feels no physical attraction to her. The two are separate issues and act on different parts of the brain.
> 
> I love my mother. My family. My dog. I feel no physical attraction to them.
> 
> I also feel physical attraction to some persons, but not love.
> 
> He is clearly saying that love is not enough. You can love a spouse and still leave them.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Vega said:


> Absolutely! But then again, how many people know _themselves_ well enough to be open and honest with _themselves_ AND, how many of THOSE people are willing to be open and honest about themselves _with another person UP FRONT?_


In my age group, this type of self-awareness is pretty common. Some care about physical attraction a lot, some don't as much, some see it as a shallow endeavor to try to have an attractive partner. It is easy to discuss this and sort out who is who in dating, again, at my age anyway. Probably since most of us out here are divorced, we really have a better idea of what we are willing to do, what we can and can't do, what we should never do again.

Not true for all of those in my age group, some are still very unaware of their own needs and boundaries. But most I have encountered are pretty self-aware.


----------



## Bibi1031

Vega; I never had a problem with his weight. Never.
?[/QUOTE said:


> I never had a problem with my husband going bald either, or thin but in no way healthy, but one of my X sisters in law did with her husband's lose of hair. It's a genetic thing and if you saw my then father in law, you should know that it would be a 50/50 chance that his sons may indeed end up bald and skinny but not physically with a hot body. More like skinny flabby if you catch my drift.
> 
> OP, how are your wife's parents and siblings? Are they thin and healthy, thin but not necessarily fit, or are most heavy set. Genetics does play a role here even if we don't want to believe it.


----------



## 225985

It is possible to think that if a spouse does not care about themselves, then therefore how can they care about their partner?.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

This has been a very robust chat thread. Thanks to everyone for their opinions. It is very easy for many to cast opinions and criticize my actions, my conversation with my wife in being honest with her. My conversation was not cruel or insensitive. It was honest. As far as it being on Christmas, it just so happened that the opportunity presented itself, and I acted upon it. I believe that healthy relationships should include the triangle, they should include 3 things: passion, intimacy, and commitment. Passion without the other two is infatuation. Commitment without the other two is being a companion. Intimacy without commitment or passion is friendship. Consummate love is when you have all three. I am not content with just a form of intimacy(friendship, primarily) and commitment for the sake of finances and keeping the family together. Obviously, as we get older, and if health circumstances change, the passion/physical intimacy changes, and the intimacy component plays a larger role, etc. But the marriage bed, when you have two seemingly otherwise healthy 40-year old persons, has as its irreplaceable component the physical union of sex, and it should be a regular occurrence. I am NOT asking for perfection, do all of the women responding understand that? I understand how we all change as we age. I get that. I am not asking for a pornified body. The truth is, like it or not, ladies, men are visual. We are sight-oriented. The initiator of desire and arousal is, in large part, based on that sense, even though not all-inclusive. I cannot make myself be sexually attracted to unhealthy weight. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. If I cannot be genuinely attracted to my wife, wanting to be with her intimately, then it prevents full enjoyment of the marriage.


----------



## Lila

veryfrustratedude said:


> ...... I am NOT asking for perfection, do all of the women responding understand that? I understand how we all change as we age. I get that. I am not asking for a pornified body. The truth is, like it or not, ladies, men are visual. We are sight-oriented. The initiator of desire and arousal is, in large part, based on that sense, even though not all-inclusive. I cannot make myself be sexually attracted to unhealthy weight. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. If I cannot be genuinely attracted to my wife, wanting to be with her intimately, then it prevents full enjoyment of the marriage.


I'm not going to criticize you for not sexually desiring your wife due to her 40 lb weight gain but I am going to give you a pragmatic view of your situation. 

Statistically speaking, the likelihood that your wife is going to drop 40 lbs (that were slowly gained over 15 +years) and return to her 'dating' weight is probably not great. 

She can get on a diet to lose the weight quickly but chances are very high that she won't keep it off. I recall reading an article that stated that less than 5% of people who lose weight manage to keep more than 10% weight loss after 1 year. In your wife's case, were she to manage to lose the 40 lbs, she'll be lucky if she only gains 36 lbs back 12 months after reaching goal weight. Most people gain back their loss + more. That's just reality. 

The best weight loss plans are those that work slowly. Since it did take years for her to gain the weight, you can try giving her years to lose it. 

If you don't have that kind of patience, then you might as well end the relationship so you can find someone who does meet your need for physical attraction now. Ending the relationship will also free her to find someone who finds her sexually desirable in her current state. I can guarantee there are men out there who would love to have a woman like your wife for their own, extra 40 lbs included. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## wild jade

Vega said:


> He had his first and ONLY heart attack and passed away in his sleep.
> 
> By the time he passed away, he also had a whole slew of health issues, including Type II Diabetes. His cholesterol levels were dangerously high and his triglyceride levels were off the charts. He was also taking 80mgs. of 'baby aspirin' every day.
> 
> He did not change his diet.
> He did not change his lifestyle.
> 
> He passed away at 57.


I feel ya! 

I'm now watching my husband head for his early death and it's so so hard ...


----------



## lovinghusband2016

Sorry about your situation


----------



## aine

veryfrustratedude said:


> Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.
> 
> This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her. Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense. It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.


I don't know enough about your wife but I am worried that this comes back to bite you in the ass. Women generally do not think the same way as men in this context and put up with hairiness and pot bellies and still desire the husband. I only hope you maintain your weight and do not become a crinkly pot bellied geezer later as this might come back to haunt you. If she gets in shape, she will remember what you said and how you don't desire her warts and all.
She may well decide she doesn't desire your apparent shallowness either and do something about it, ....just saying. I know that would not be right as you are only being honest, but relationships and emotions often do not work the way we expect them to and honesty isn't always the best policy.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Aine, thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. I get what you're saying. I have been honest, and I do not feel like I am being shallow. I realize that there are many layers here. I truly do want to have passion and desire my wife. I do believe it's possible. I am not going to control what she does or does not do. I didn't tell her that I was going to divorce her, I just told her how I felt. I have to be able to respond to her sexually. All I am saying is, down the road, if she continues to not take care of herself, while I continue to take care of myself, it is not going to "just go away, and everything is hunky dory". Regardless of what other guys may say, trust me, IT IS AN ISSUE to some degree or another. I would never expect my wife to be height/weight proportional and maintain that unless I was willing to do it myself. I am willing to do that. I do that. It is part of my routine. I benefit from that, but so does my wife. I maintain myself, and I am not out there doing things I shouldn't do. I am faithful. I believe I am bringing this out into the open, doing it the right way, and, quite honestly, the responses by most of the females have been "your'e shallow" or "shame on you" or something similar. It's a no-win situation. Women don't want to hear that men actually care about appearance. How ridiculous is that? If I weighed 250 lbs and weighed 160 lbs when we got married, I would hope my wife would say something to me.


----------



## jld

veryfrustratedude said:


> Aine, thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. I get what you're saying. I have been honest, and I do not feel like I am being shallow. I realize that there are many layers here. I truly do want to have passion and desire my wife. I do believe it's possible. I am not going to control what she does or does not do. I didn't tell her that I was going to divorce her, I just told her how I felt. I have to be able to respond to her sexually. All I am saying is, down the road, if she continues to not take care of herself, while I continue to take care of myself, it is not going to "just go away, and everything is hunky dory". Regardless of what other guys may say, trust me, IT IS AN ISSUE to some degree or another. I would never expect my wife to be height/weight proportional and maintain that unless I was willing to do it myself. I am willing to do that. I do that. It is part of my routine. I benefit from that, but so does my wife. I maintain myself, and I am not out there doing things I shouldn't do. I am faithful. I believe I am bringing this out into the open, doing it the right way, and, quite honestly, the responses by most of the females have been "your'e shallow" or "shame on you" or something similar. It's a no-win situation. Women don't want to hear that men actually care about appearance. How ridiculous is that? If I weighed 250 lbs and weighed 160 lbs when we got married, I would hope my wife would say something to me.


What would you think if she were considering divorcing you if you were 200? It is a 40 pound difference we are talking about here, not 100, correct?

And remember, your wife has had a few kids. Your body would not have gone through that, so you cannot really make comparisons.

You are certainly free to do as you wish, OP. But if she is really perfect for you in every other way, and you decide to divorce anyway, you may end up reconsidering what really matters to you in life.


----------



## 225985

jld said:


> What would you think if she were considering divorcing you if you were 200? It is a 40 pound difference we are talking about here, not 100, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> And remember, your wife has had a few kids. Your body would not have gone through that, so you cannot really make comparisons.
> 
> 
> 
> You are certainly free to do as you wish, OP. But if she is really perfect for you in every other way, and you decide to divorce anyway, you may end up reconsidering what really matters to you in life.




Re read the details. She is up about 45 lbs from 120 lbs. Nearly a 40 % weight gain of nearly all fat. He said over the last two years. Not since the kids were born.


----------



## jld

blueinbr said:


> Re read the details. She is up about 45 lbs from 120 lbs. Nearly a 40 % weight gain of nearly all fat. He said over the last two years. Not since the kids were born.


160-165 (his guess) is 40-45 pounds. And is still not obese for her height according to BMI.

Do we know the age of the kids?

Not that any of this ultimately matters. He is free to divorce for any reason at any time. He has no need to justify it.

I just hope he does not regret it later. Mates who are perfect in every other way may not be easy to come by.


----------



## Starstarfish

> Nearly a 40 % weight gain of nearly all fat.


Without going to a doctor or having a resistance test you can't say that it's "nearly all fat" purely because there's been visible weight gain.

It could be water weight, it could be her tissue mass (liver, etc) has also grown (yes it happens.) 

So I get we are trying to help, but I'd caution against starting to making absolute statements of medical diagnosis.


----------



## 225985

Starstarfish said:


> Without going to a doctor or having a resistance test you can't say that it's "nearly all fat" purely because there's been visible weight gain.
> 
> 
> 
> It could be water weight, it could be her tissue mass (liver, etc) has also grown (yes it happens.)
> 
> 
> 
> So I get we are trying to help, but I'd caution against starting to making absolute statements of medical diagnosis.




You are right. I should have said "IMO", based on my wife's 100 lb gain. 

OP, SSF brings up a very good point. Has W had a full physical exam in the past 12 months? There are many physical/health reasons that cause weight gain, including meds. From thyroid, liver, hormone, etc. If so, that could be very difficult to resolve with just diet. 

I speak as a person who has accompanied wife on probably 200 doctor visits the last 4 years. 

Start there.


----------



## Starstarfish

I have hypothyroidism and was a former emotional over-eater and I've been to doctors, naturopaths, endocrine specialists, hell even an Ayurveda practitioner or two. I've learned from experience that you might need to change your BC to get effective weight-gain all of the Zumba and Slim Fast in the world was doing zero until I got off my old BC pills. 

Maybe I should start a thread somewhere on what did or didn't work for me. Obviously it's all anecdotal but it's something.


----------



## MEM2020

Very,
I'd give it a 50-50 whether you respond to this, or to my other post. FWIW - if you elect not to - I will leave you be, and this will be my final post to you. 

The mechanics of the situation are fairly clear, your wife V2, is choosing a non active lifestyle and food she likes over passion and sex. That's simply a fact. 

So far, your approach seems very 'logic/fairness' driven: I stay in shape for me/us/you, and in the spirit of reciprocity you owe me the same consideration. 

First - let's get some basic stuff out of the way. I had the fitness talk with my wife (M2), before we got engaged. It was a fairly blunt exchange. She asked what I would do if she was in a severe car accident - ruined her appearance. I told her that vows are vows and in sickness and in health and in good times and bad - covered all that. And I added that indifference is the opposite of love and indifference to fitness/desirability and sex wouldn't really work for me. 

That said - your approach is unlikely to work - as you are laying all this at her door, without asking any hard questions. 

And I don't mean hard questions for V2. I mean questions you might have a hard time hearing the answers to. 

I have never seen anyone on this site, adopt an 'ego/ self protective' posture and fix a broken sex life. If you are willing to take a hard look at this from her viewpoint, you have a shot at improving things. And if not, well - if not - I expect you are going to soon feel as if you are pushing on a string. Its a bad feeling. 

I will leave you with an example of a hard question: 

Why is she so unbothered by the apparent death of passion and sex? 



















veryfrustratedude said:


> Aine, thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. I get what you're saying. I have been honest, and I do not feel like I am being shallow. I realize that there are many layers here. I truly do want to have passion and desire my wife. I do believe it's possible. I am not going to control what she does or does not do. I didn't tell her that I was going to divorce her, I just told her how I felt. I have to be able to respond to her sexually. All I am saying is, down the road, if she continues to not take care of herself, while I continue to take care of myself, it is not going to "just go away, and everything is hunky dory". Regardless of what other guys may say, trust me, IT IS AN ISSUE to some degree or another. I would never expect my wife to be height/weight proportional and maintain that unless I was willing to do it myself. I am willing to do that. I do that. It is part of my routine. I benefit from that, but so does my wife. I maintain myself, and I am not out there doing things I shouldn't do. I am faithful. I believe I am bringing this out into the open, doing it the right way, and, quite honestly, the responses by most of the females have been "your'e shallow" or "shame on you" or something similar. It's a no-win situation. Women don't want to hear that men actually care about appearance. How ridiculous is that? If I weighed 250 lbs and weighed 160 lbs when we got married, I would hope my wife would say something to me.


----------



## TaDor

You're in a tricky situation. We all get older and such. But here is the thing. Being overweight is bad for your health. And losing sexual desire is going to open your marriage to breaking apart. I go to the gym a few times a week. I see what you see. Women who are trying to get in shape and women who are in shape... Even if they are in thier 60s, they look pretty good. The gym is a hot spot for affairs... You may meet a married woman who is toned and has a very overweight husband and things go south from there.

I am 45 lbs overweight. But I'm a big chested 6 ft guy... But I obviously need to lose it. My wife (technically not as we're back together but as bf/gf) is 5'3" and her avg. Weight is 103lbs. 110 on her frame is noticable (she'll be far more upset than I am). I'm 15 years older than her and I need to get below 190 for my Health and I want to be sexy for her. 

It's not fair to her she for me to be this way and again, I want to be a dad to our son for a long time. 

I have overweight family and friends. Some has been caused by illness and medication. A friend of mine, she used to be 100lbs at 5-2". In 5 years and before she turned 30 (no kids) balloon up to 200lbs... And nothing much she can do about it. Her husband is 160lbs and 5-10"... 

A friend of mine divorced his first wife because of weight and she had no sexual desires afyet having kids. It was a very good divorce, no fighting and very good friends. Both same age when he broke up with her at age 40. He meet a very fit 27 year old. (He is and always was at a healthy weight) and try are still married after 22 years. She gained healthy weight for her age and having kids. Oh, he didn't cheat on his first wife.

So see what's up with your wife. But she may not care about sex that much and it's a way to keep you off. There is a spectrum of reasons. Thing is, if you divorce her etc, she may then hit the gym to pick up guys. 

People tend to gain weight when they are in a stable long-term relationship, No matter what the age. 

You need to come up with solutions that works for both of you. Since it bothers you, it will get worse. Another option is to see if she'll allow you to see other women... many wives are cool with this. But that'll likely end in divorce sooner or later. 
You have 5 major options.

1. she continues gaining weight and you stay & live with it. 
2. she continues gaining weight so you divorce her and move on.
3. you cheat on her and deal with that mess which will be very damaging to everyone especially your children.
4. she takes her health seriously and starts going to the gym with you and eating better. (I like my wife going to the gym with me to tone up) which seems to be your preferred choice. 
5. you have an open marriage in which you have sex with other women and come home to the mother of your kids.


----------



## nursejackie

I may have missed this somewhere but has depression been addressed? Sometimes low dopamine can cause a loss of motivation...to lose weight, have sex, exercise etc. You cannot always tell that someone is not their best. She may not realize that she has lost some of her zest for life. She certainly doesnt want to be sexual if she isnt feeling like shes looking sexy. My suggestion- Wellbutrin. If its not for her nothing will change. If it is the issue she will start to feel the change and choose to improve her life. Good Luck.


----------



## naiveonedave

jld said:


> 160-165 (his guess) is 40-45 pounds. And is still not obese for her height according to BMI.
> 
> Do we know the age of the kids?
> 
> Not that any of this ultimately matters. He is free to divorce for any reason at any time. He has no need to justify it.
> 
> I just hope he does not regret it later. Mates who are perfect in every other way may not be easy to come by.


BMI for individuals is not a good metric. It doesn't take into account things like frame size. 

165 lbs gives an acceptable BMI for a 5'9" woman. Not a 5'3" woman. Also going up 40 pounds in 2 years is not healthy. Even if she was too skinny to start with.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Thanks again to everyone for posting, I continue to read them all, and consider each one's perspective.

This is the way I would describe myself, and where I am right now: When someone does CPR on someone, they remember the ABC's..Airway, Breathing, Circulation. Without the first thing, the airway, nothing else matters. The airway as far as my own sexuality is concerned, my own sexual response, my own "template" if you will, is found in the physical realm. It is ground zero, it is 'Point A'. I am speaking from my own perspective here, not comparing myself to anyone else. What's good for me may not be good for many, but I am who I am. When I was back in the dating scene, in college, if I am not physically attracted to someone, INITIALLY, then there is no pursuit, there is no need to go any farther, I am not interested in the least. Physical appearance can be augmented positively or negatively by character traits(integrity, sense of humor, kindness, honesty, compassion, gentleness, friendship, etc, etc) to the point that a "10" in physical beauty can become a "4" without character, and without the perception that we could be best friends. And, an "8" can become a "10" with a measure of beauty and all of those other traits. Indeed, the "whole package" is ideal. So, posters, let me ask you, why, after years of marriage, is ok for my partner to expect that I just have to "get over" my lack of attraction, which is entirely due to weight gain? I in no way expect perfection. I am not perfect, no one is. But I want to look at my wife and think to myself, "she looks hot". What's wrong with that? As a guy, I don't believe I am alone in saying that when I am attracted to my wife, I will do anything and everything for her, and I want to be with her physically. If that is not so, if I do not desire physical union, then I am just not drawn towards her. Every man wants to be enticed.


----------



## hewasneverreallymine

veryfrustratedude said:


> Thanks again to everyone for posting, I continue to read them all, and consider each one's perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the way I would describe myself, and where I am right now: When someone does CPR on someone, they remember the ABC's..Airway, Breathing, Circulation. Without the first thing, the airway, nothing else matters. The airway as far as my own sexuality is concerned, my own sexual response, my own "template" if you will, is found in the physical realm. It is ground zero, it is 'Point A'. I am speaking from my own perspective here, not comparing myself to anyone else. What's good for me may not be good for many, but I am who I am. When I was back in the dating scene, in college, if I am not physically attracted to someone, INITIALLY, then there is no pursuit, there is no need to go any farther, I am not interested in the least. Physical appearance can be augmented positively or negatively by character traits(integrity, sense of humor, kindness, honesty, compassion, gentleness, friendship, etc, etc) to the point that a "10" in physical beauty can become a "4" without character, and without the perception that we could be best friends. And, an "8" can become a "10" with a measure of beauty and all of those other traits. Indeed, the "whole package" is ideal. So, posters, let me ask you, why, after years of marriage, is ok for my partner to expect that I just have to "get over" my lack of attraction, which is entirely due to weight gain? I in no way expect perfection. I am not perfect, no one is. But I want to look at my wife and think to myself, "she looks hot". What's wrong with that? As a guy, I don't believe I am alone in saying that when I am attracted to my wife, I will do anything and everything for her, and I want to be with her physically. If that is not so, if I do not desire physical union, then I am just not drawn towards her. Every man wants to be enticed.




So does every woman...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Hear! Hear!, good point


----------



## turnera

How many hours do you spend together without electronics on? You two should be spending 10 to 15 hours a week together, doing 'dating' things, for her to be interested in you and in sex. That's just how it works. Conversations, coffee, walks, playing a sport, hiking, biking, fishing, whatever. To stay in love, you have to put some effort into the marriage and you basically have to keep doing what you were doing when you were dating, which is what got her to choose you in the first place. 

As for weight, get the book His Needs Her Needs and ask her to read it with you, a little each night. It will explain to her that her looks are a valid need of yours and she needs to address it; it will give you a segue into discussing her weight honestly.


----------



## katiecrna

No you shouldn't have it all, life doesn't work that way. Appreciate what you have. You can't sit like a bump on a log and think these negative thoughts about your wife expecting her to read your mind and "already know" what she should do. 
Marriage takes work. Talk to her. And get rid of these negative thoughts because they will cause you resentment and you will never be happy.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Looking straight at the numbers, just BMI. You are overly sensitive to body weight. I wish I only weighed 45 pounds more than I dd when I met my Spouse. 

Never mind As of this morning I weigh exactly 45 pounds more than I did when we met. 31 years ago.


----------



## hewasneverreallymine

Let's see a pic of perfect shallow you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tigerlily99

In my journey of marriage (wife here) I have noticed that there are three components that play into my sexual desire.
1. Connection
2. Physical attractiveness of my partner 
3. My body's needs
(hormonal cycle, self esteem, physical urges)

I have found that if I have two out of the three happening we can have great sex.
(all three would equal phenomenal sex)


These three input areas for my sexual desire are very fluid and will be different for different people.
For example I can feel super connected to my H because he and I have coffee together that morning, he gives me a little pep talk when I bring up something I'm struggling with, he looks me in the eyes when saying he loves me, he doesn't spend too much time on the computer that day.
Then when later that day I start to feel some physical desire the groundwork is laid and I feel close, safe, loved and accepted by him so I am ready to act on my urge. 
If he looks good, smells good, and is overall attractive to me (this is fluid too, it's dependent on presentation not just his physique) then it's even more exciting! 

I went through our first 20 years of marriage never analyzing any of this. It wasn't until after my EA 4 years ago that I started to really endeavor to understand my own desire levels and how my attraction-connection worked.

In my case we had gotten to a point in our M that my connection to my H had completely deteriorated. I was sort of a once married always married person who didn't take into consideration my own needs in the relationship, only his.
So he was super happy and felt that we had an amazing M but I was feeling very alone and without support or affirmation.


I didn't know that I needed to ask for more. 
It wasn't until I innocently slipped into an easy companionship with a mutual male friend that I started realizing how disconnected I felt from my H. I was so surprised that in what I thought was an innocent friendship my sexual interest began to gravitate toward the person I was connecting with.


Thankfully this all ended before anything more took place. The connection with another man was bad enough, but it was also the wake-up call I needed to start really analyzing my needs and communicating with my H about them.


I'm sure that in those three inputs I mentioned there is a percentage ratio that is different for different people. I'm going to assume that your percentage on how much physical appearance plays into your desire and satisfaction is bigger than mine. BUT I am convinced that when you focus on more than just the one that feels at a deficit you will find a fuller experience and you won't be just focusing on something you can't change and getting hyper aware of it instead of looking at other ways to feel close and sexual with your W.


This brings me to the suggestion of finding out where your wife is in all of this. Apparently you are physically fit...so apparently you are attractive to her...But do you wear the kinds of clothes she likes? Have good hygiene, wear a cologne she likes? 


In the connection area do you connect with her in a way that SHE feels connected? (Ie. speak her love language) what is her love language? (The area of connection in itself is a huge topic.)


And lastly, why isn't your wife having the physical desire for sex.Is she shut down because of depression, hormonal changes, her weight, etc. 
Or is she having the physical desire and just not acting on it because she feels disconnected?


When a woman feels overweight and has low self esteem she doesn't have ANY motivation to pull out of it on her own.
The only motivation is to feel loved, supported and worth the effort it takes to lose weight.
If all you're seeing is fat and unattractiveness this is coming through to her and only making her feel worse. I promise you that.


So focus on connecting, (in her language) supporting, communicating and talking about the tough things in love and gentleness and genuine care for her struggle. 
Don't skirt around the hard stuff that you are feeling but understand that for her it's not as simple as ‘lose weight and all is well’.
There's definitely more going on here than you realize.


----------



## katiecrna

Wow @tigerlily99 best post I have read yet and written so clear and concise.


----------



## Mr. Nail

I like that @tigerlily99 has nailed down 3 specific components of her sexual desire. My needs don't line up perfectly. I would say my list would be something like:
1. physical attractiveness
2. emotional intimacy
3. the other persons desire for me.
And not specifically in that order. It is a bit of a dangerous situation. If I met an attractive person who was attracted to me, I could be in danger of breaking my rule about emotional intimacy before physical.
Now is it possible that OP really only has one criteria for sexual desire. I'm pretty sure I've met a few men who do only have one criteria.


----------



## katiecrna

Mr. Nail said:


> I like that @tigerlily99 has nailed down 3 specific components of her sexual desire. My needs don't line up perfectly. I would say my list would be something like:
> 
> 1. physical attractiveness
> 
> 2. emotional intimacy
> 
> 3. the other persons desire for me.
> 
> And not specifically in that order. It is a bit of a dangerous situation. If I met an attractive person who was attracted to me, I could be in danger of breaking my rule about emotional intimacy before physical.
> 
> Now is it possible that OP really only has one criteria for sexual desire. I'm pretty sure I've met a few men who do only have one criteria.




Let's say this is true... that he has only one criteria for sexual desire. 

If his wife needs 2 out of her 3 criteria to be met before sex takes place, is it her husbands responsibility to meet those needs? Does she have some responsibility in getting her own needs met? And for him, if his needs are strictly attractiveness... is it only his wife's responsibility to met this? 

In my experience, people treat their spouse how they want to be treated, not how their spouse wants to be treated. This is because there is a lack of understanding and communication and willingness to give the spouse what THEY need. 

I need to feel connected emotionally to my husband to want to have sex too. But I don't wait around for my husband to take me out on a date, or put effort in connecting with me. (He should, but the reality is sometimes they don't). Instead of waiting around, getting mad and resentful, and not having sex, I take it upon myself and make plans for us to hang out because I'm better at it then he is. If I waited for my husband to always do what he is "suppose" to do, I'd be miserable, and re-virginized. 
The OP needs attractiveness to have sex. And he is waiting for her to do what she is "suppose" to do. He should take some responsibility for his needs and actually talk to her about this. She probably doesn't know to what extent this bothers him.


----------



## tigerlily99

katiecrna said:


> If I waited for my husband to always do what he is "suppose" to do, I'd be miserable, and re-virginized.


That made me laugh out loud. "Re-virginized" Too funny! 



katiecrna said:


> The OP needs attractiveness to have sex. And he is waiting for her to do what she is "suppose" to do. He should take some responsibility for his needs and actually talk to her about this. She probably doesn't know to what extent this bothers him.


I totally agree. And it seems that he has indeed talked to her a little about it. Most likely this is a multi-faceted problem and I'm just hoping it doesn't turn into a too little too late problem since I'm assuming it has been bottled up for sometime.


I feel that OP has clearly stated that the other components are in place for him to feel connected with his W. He just needed to be attracted to her physically in order to want to have sex.

As other posters have pointed out, why isn't SHE wanting more sex? 
My three-fold criteria is for him to consider exactly what you're saying here @katiecrna it's ok and necessary for him to help her help him in this process. 
We don't all think alike and her criteria is likely very different than his so she doesn't see it in black and white like he thinks she should.

Perhaps she is perfectly happy and content like my H was. Not knowing that anything is wrong because he's meeting all of her needs.


----------



## tigerlily99

Mr. Nail said:


> I like that @
> My needs don't line up perfectly. I would say my list would be something like:
> 
> 1. physical attractiveness
> 
> 2. emotional intimacy
> 
> 3. the other persons desire for me.
> 
> [/quote]
> 
> 
> Ooo, that's a good point! [MENTION=22830]Mr. Nail The other person's desire for me is a biggie! And what's interesting is that is actually based on my belief or perception of their desire.
> So it can be faulty.
> Sometimes I perceive that my H isn't 'into me' that day, only to find out later that he was trying to be 'gentlemanly' and take things slow because he was actually feeling very full of desire but didn't want to rush me.
> 
> So I'll have to consider where that fits into my criteria.
> 
> This could be a whole thread on its own! Now I'm curious about other people's thoughts too!
> 
> As for the OP I was actually wondering earlier if that is part of the issue as well. Do you feel like your wife is not desiring you?
> Do you feel like she isn't putting forth the effort to show you that she wants you in daily life? Like dressing up, flirting, being passionate with you, initiating sex sometimes, etc.
> I just wonder if it's truly ALL about the weight. Honestly you don't strike me as shallow in your posts. I wonder if, say hypothetically your wife lost the weight, looked great physically but NOTHING else changed, would it be enough? Her wardrobe, her moods, her passion levels, the frequency of her initiating sex, and her interest in you didn't change. JUST her weight.
> 
> You might find that you are fixating on only one part of the 'fix'.
> 
> But if that's truly it, than just help her lose the weight. She probably needs you to get involved.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Thanks again to everyone. Tigerlily, thank you for your belief that I am not shallow. Certainly, that is not my desire in my posting and responses to appear so.

I hear the advice of those advocating time spent with their spouses and making sure that is at at a premium. There is much truth in that, and I must be more aggressive about that. Katiecrna, I have read your posts regarding your husband-I am in a similar profession, and work very long hours. I truly do wish it didn't matter to me how much my wife weighs. It would be much easier. Twenty years from now, maybe that will be the case. I want to iterate once again, in my own mind, the difference between love and desire. They are connected, intertwined, complimentary. And they can exist both without the other. For me, the presence of passion/desire/arousal enable me to meet the needs of my wife fully. It enables me to engage her fully. It motivates me to do things for her, be thoughtful, place her needs above my own, look forward to being with her. It is the gasoline in the engine. Connection begins in the living room, so to speak. Passion and desire help to bring that connection into something deeper in the bedroom. I understand these things.

I am honestly going to dedicate myself, lets say over the next 6-12 months, to truly loving my wife in a way that attempts NOT to focus on her weight. I admit, I have held resentment, anger, and frustrations towards her because of this weight gain, and even though I do not take it out on her, I am kind to her, I know it has some effect in some way for her emotionally. That's on me, things I have to work through, bring to the surface, and deal with. I'm actually going to see a counselor for this next week. I know I must process those negative emotions, it's not her fault. I do want to meet my wife's needs and love her well. It will be my goal to spend time with her, be very proactive about that time, be thoughtful, helpful, kind, patient, a good listener, encouraging, and make every attempt to make her life as easy as I am able. I will do so and we will NOT discuss weight. We will NOT mention it. In the meantime, I am going to continue to take care of myself, and do the things I enjoy that keep me healthy. Is it not reasonable to think that my wife would desire to be desirable at some point? Are there any women out there who, with an attentive, healthy, kind husband(whom they physically desire), who is obviously doing everything he knows to do to love you well, but who also may know wishes she would at last try to lose weight, who would just not even try to do so?? Is that not a reasonable hope or expectation?


----------



## katiecrna

I get where your coming from, but.... I do not understand why you are set on not discussing weight. Why is it so important that she arrives at this by herself? And if she doesn't, what is going to happen? 

I think your making a big mistake by avoiding this conversation. And putting myself in your wife's position, Not only would I want to know, I would be so pissed if you didn't tell me. I think it's a weird game your playing. This weird passive test that you want to see if she will pass. I don't like that, be honest and direct with her.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Katiecrna, I have had the discussion, if you'll read it in an earlier post....

But there's no point in CONTINUING to discuss it.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.

This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her. 
...from the earlier thread, on page 4....


Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense. It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.


----------



## veryfrustratedude

Sorry for the typo on the last post...this was my conversation, which I posted on Dec 25...

Thanks again to everyone for the comments, and Merry Christmas evening to all🎄.

This evening, less than an hour ago, I talked with my wife. I told her that it was important that I was honest with her. Essentially, I told her that I wanted to want her, and that, due to her not taking care of herself, that the passion that we once had is diminishing, and has been for awhile. I told her that I was concerned that she wasn't taking care of herself, not sleeping enough, not eating as healthy as she should, and not having time to exercise, as well as do the other things that she likes. She stated that she needs me to love her unconditionally, and I said that my love for her IS unconditional. Nothing could ever change that. Whether she weighed 500 lbs or 120 lbs, that doesn't change. But I tried to express to her that my DESIRE for her is affected by whether or not she takes care of herself. I cannot help that. I want to want HER, no one else, and I want her to want me to want her, if that makes sense. It makes me feel like she doesn't care if I want her or not when she doesn't take care of herself(I didn't tell her this last part). I told her that I will do everything in my power to provide her with time to take care of herself, whether that means sleep or exercise or just getting out of the house. I understand that she needs time just for herself. It was a difficult conversation, but I think it went pretty well. I'm glad we talked. Now, it's up to me to put my money where my mouth is and support her while allowing her to take care of herself, and it's up to her to make any lifestyle changes in response to our conversation. We'll see what happens.


----------



## 225985

You will feel resentment when you see her eating a bowl of ice cream.


----------



## tigerlily99

Im convinced that it's the very things that are the hardest that we must discuss more because they are the very things that are the most misunderstood between us as couples.


----------



## aine

veryfrustratedude said:


> Aine, thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. I get what you're saying. I have been honest, and I do not feel like I am being shallow. I realize that there are many layers here. I truly do want to have passion and desire my wife. I do believe it's possible. I am not going to control what she does or does not do. I didn't tell her that I was going to divorce her, I just told her how I felt. I have to be able to respond to her sexually. All I am saying is, down the road, if she continues to not take care of herself, while I continue to take care of myself, it is not going to "just go away, and everything is hunky dory". Regardless of what other guys may say, trust me, IT IS AN ISSUE to some degree or another. I would never expect my wife to be height/weight proportional and maintain that unless I was willing to do it myself. I am willing to do that. I do that. It is part of my routine. I benefit from that, but so does my wife. I maintain myself, and I am not out there doing things I shouldn't do. I am faithful. I believe I am bringing this out into the open, doing it the right way, and, quite honestly, the responses by most of the females have been "your'e shallow" or "shame on you" or something similar. It's a no-win situation. Women don't want to hear that men actually care about appearance. How ridiculous is that? If I weighed 250 lbs and weighed 160 lbs when we got married, I would hope my wife would say something to me.


I get where you are coming from I really do.
I wonder in this pursuit for maintaining your own body do you help your wife around the house for example.
Many women I know including myself at one time when the kids still at home

1. work full time
2. commute long distances/stuck in traffic
3. do all the cooking
4. do all the cleaning or organise cleaning
5. take care of all the kids schooling, extra curricular activities
6. pay the bills
7. Drive the kids
8. Do the groceries, etc
Need I go on?

Husband, goes to work, comes back, goes to gym and comes back, goes to golf and comes back.

Get the picture?
Perhaps you need to consider her timetable and what she does with the hours she has. I for one would have loved to have an hour to go to the gym in the midst of all that or take 4 hours to go play golf but something else would have had to give and in the end it is usually the frazzled wife who puts herself last.
I wonder is this the scenario in your house? Just asking, cause these are quite common dynamics in many households.
Now my kids are gone I still have to do bills, but have learned to do what I can do. Due to my working hours and commute cannot always make it to a gym but at least I have options.


----------



## 225985

aine said:


> I get where you are coming from I really do.
> 
> I wonder in this pursuit for maintaining your own body do you help your wife around the house for example.
> 
> Many women I know including myself at one time when the kids still at home
> 
> 
> 
> 1. work full time
> 
> 2. commute long distances/stuck in traffic
> 
> 3. do all the cooking
> 
> 4. do all the cleaning or organise cleaning
> 
> 5. take care of all the kids schooling, extra curricular activities
> 
> 6. pay the bills
> 
> 7. Drive the kids
> 
> 8. Do the groceries, etc
> 
> Need I go on?
> 
> 
> 
> Husband, goes to work, comes back, goes to gym and comes back, goes to golf and comes back.
> 
> 
> 
> Get the picture?
> 
> Perhaps you need to consider her timetable and what she does with the hours she has. I for one would have loved to have an hour to go to the gym in the midst of all that or take 4 hours to go play golf but something else would have had to give and in the end it is usually the frazzled wife who puts herself last.
> 
> I wonder is this the scenario in your house? Just asking, cause these are quite common dynamics in many households.
> 
> Now my kids are gone I still have to do bills, but have learned to do what I can do. Due to my working hours and commute cannot always make it to a gym but at least I have options.




Read post 38. She doesn't work. He works 60 hours a week and still does a lot around the house.


----------

