# Definition of “controlling”



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I have seen this term “controlling” used so many times by some women against men. Its wielded like a sword and like the term “racist”, is basically indefensible, which is why I think women like it so much.

It’s labeled as controlling if a guy disagrees with:

1) hanging out in bars for girls night
2) going hours away to console or “support” a male friend.
3) asking about spending habits that are clearly out of “control”and suggesting changes.
4) disagreeing with any plans that were made without previous discussion, even if they involve large expense or being apart for long periods of time.

I could go on and on. But I personally think this term is thrown out constantly and in many cases, knowingly used when it’s obviously unfounded and the person using it is attempting to invalidate legitimate concerns of a reasonable spouse. 

The worst thing about it is weak men that are doormats seem to constantly fall for this labeling bs and allow themselves to be walked on out of fear.

So my question is this for you ladies, what exactly is your definition of a controlling man?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Blame shifting


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> I have seen this term “controlling” used so many times by some women against men. Its wielded like a sword and like the term “racist”, is basically indefensible, which is why I think women like it so much.
> 
> It’s labeled as controlling if a guy disagrees with:
> 
> ...


I think you are missing the point.

The boyfriend wasn't controlling because he disagreed with the woman flying to console the friend. It is that he pulls out all the stops and throws a hissy fit. He is controlling for not letting her go hang out with her friend like once a year to sing karoke and then texting her the whole night trying to make sure she isn't having any fun.

I have no idea the thread your are talking about spending habits. 

It is often how this disagreement works. If you sit and have a conversation that isn't controlling. If you do anything and everything to make sure you 'win' the disagreement then you are controlling. You must control the outcome. You don't care about anybody else's perspective or opinion.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think you are missing the point.
> 
> The boyfriend wasn't controlling because he disagreed with the woman flying to console the friend. It is that he pulls out all the stops and throws a hissy fit. He is controlling for not letting her go hang out with her friend like once a year to sing karoke and then texting her the whole night trying to make sure she isn't having any fun.
> 
> ...


Well now we are getting somewhere. I agree that forcing one’s opinions is wrong, and that having a conversation about disagreements is the way to go. I was thinking of that thread, btw, but there are lots of others...
The OP in the consoling male friends thread seemed pretty capable of throwing a hissy fit as well based on her last post. So I am not totally trusting of her portrayal of his hissy fit.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Well now we are getting somewhere. I agree that forcing one’s opinions is wrong, and that having a conversation about disagreements is the way to go. I was thinking of that thread, btw, but there are lots of others...
> The OP in the consoling male friends thread seemed pretty capable of throwing a hissy fit as well based on her last post. So I am not totally trusting of her portrayal of his hissy fit.


Oh I don't think they are a very mature couple. I don't think she should marry him. But not because of his objection to seeing the friend.

I am happily married and have never been divorced.
If me and my husband had a difference of opinion we would express that to the other. Because we love each other we would give great weight to the others opinion and cave to their opinion since neither of us has a tendancy to try to tell the other what to do. However, at the end of the day if one of us did what we thought we should and that was contrary to what the other thought I have no doubt there would be support and we would move forward. We not only love each other we trust each other as well. At the end of the day, you can't make decisions for your spouse. The fact though that we would mostly likely defer to the other is where it would likely stop. 

Pretty sure that's why I'm happily married on my first marriage. We accept the other person and trust the other person.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So what if your husband asked you to not do something you really wanted to do, and he felt what you were doing was extremely disrespectful to him, or something he felt showed you did not trust him, or that you were putting your own desires ahead of his or the family’s?

This is what I was going to ask. But I suppose a good person would stop without too much fuss, even if they felt in the right or entitled to what they were wanting to do. Because their spouse’s feelings were more important than whatever it was they wanted.

Sadly, there are so many divorces because so many people don’t live their spouse as they should, don’t have patience, don’t value the right things.

I am very jealous that you have had a long happy marriage, but wish you many more happy years. I hope one day to find a reasonable person who works out problems and that I love and trust enough to value her properly.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> So what if your husband asked you to not do something you really wanted to do, and he felt what you were doing was extremely disrespectful to him, or something he felt showed you did not trust him, or that you were putting your own desires ahead of his or the family’s?
> 
> This is what I was going to ask. But I suppose a good person would stop without too much fuss, even if they felt in the right or entitled to what they were wanting to do. Because their spouse’s feelings were more important than whatever it was they wanted.
> 
> ...


Yes I can say in most cases I just wouldn't do it. But the flip side of that is if I felt I needed to he'd understand and support me.

I feel in this still gendered world that many men expect women to defer to their feelings of disrespect but don't really reciprocate.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Oh and I sincerely wish all people could experience my marriage. I really think it isn't that hard to have what we have but most people aren't willing.

Don't give up though cause it's worth the wait. I waited from 16 to 23 for my husband. It was only 7 years but it seemed like a lifetime dating ones who weren't right. Turning down ones who probably would make a good husband type thing.

Ironically when I met my husband I knew by the end of the first date this was the one I was going to keep. 5 weeks later we were married.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh and I sincerely wish all people could experience my marriage. I really think it isn't that hard to have what we have but most people aren't willing.
> 
> Don't give up though cause it's worth the wait. I waited from 16 to 23 for my husband. It was only 7 years but it seemed like a lifetime dating ones who weren't right. Turning down ones who probably would make a good husband type thing.
> 
> Ironically when I met my husband I knew by the end of the first date this was the one I was going to keep. 5 weeks later we were married.


Five weeks!!!
****ing hell!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The "controlling" charge is used plenty by men too when they wamt to have inappropriate women friends or spend 80% of their free time with their friends and not their wife.

I agree that it is indefensible and basically a deflection to be able to continue with bad or inappropriate behavior.

It can also be valid, but that point is unfortunately subjective and subject to social norms. In some societies it's seen as inappropriate for women to leave the house without a male relative or be in the general vicinity of non male relatives. In western society we have different standards for what is appropriate and thus when behavior becomes controlling. The first guy demanding she not leave the house alone would not be seen as controlling but the second one surely would.

I was chatting with a guy friend at work (don't hang out with him...only chat at work). A friend of his got dumped by his gf because a picture showed up on social media of him at a party with another woman in his lap.

My work friend thought that was just harmless flirting and said it wouldn't bother him if a gf of his did the same thing. I think that's ridiculous and wouldn't tolerate it.

Does that make me controlling? I don't think so, but my friend might disagree. He and I have different acceptability standards. It's important to find someone who shares your standards this way.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> Five weeks!!!
> ****ing hell!


Sorry evinrude for the t/j.

yes and that was me being patient because I knew right off the bat.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Sorry evinrude for the t/j.
> 
> yes and *that was me being patient* because I knew right off the bat.


lmao


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Sorry evinrude for the t/j.
> 
> yes and that was me being patient because I knew right off the bat.


It took me about three and a half years of dating before I proposed to my wife. (The first time)


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

Perhaps we should also discuss the different ways to call someone controlling. I dated a guy who had some bad habits that I didn't like. Ifinally told him that if didn't stop, we would have to stop dating. His response: "Are you threatening me?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

NTA said:


> His response: "Are you threatening me?


Oh, that's not good!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh and I sincerely wish all people could experience my marriage. I really think it isn't that hard to have what we have but most people aren't willing.
> 
> Don't give up though cause it's worth the wait. I waited from 16 to 23 for my husband. It was only 7 years but it seemed like a lifetime dating ones who weren't right. Turning down ones who probably would make a good husband type thing.
> 
> Ironically when I met my husband I knew by the end of the first date this was the one I was going to keep. 5 weeks later we were married.


Wow, how did you even arrange everything in 5 weeks? In the UK you have to give notice of intent to marry several weeks before the actual marriage. 
We married after 9 months and many think that was crazy.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> I have seen this term “controlling” used so many times by some women against men. Its wielded like a sword and like the term “racist”, is basically indefensible, which is why I think women like it so much.
> 
> It’s labeled as controlling if a guy disagrees with:
> 
> ...


@Evinrude58 , 

To me this is rather easy. Look at the examples you listed:
1) hanging out in bars for girls night​2) going hours away to console or “support” a male friend.​3) asking about spending habits that are clearly out of “control”and suggesting changes.​4) disagreeing with any plans that were made without previous discussion, even if they involve large expense or being apart for long periods of time.​I don't think anyone here on TAM, male or female, would say that behaving like this is "right" in a relationship. Clearly it is "wrong" to hang out at bars all hours, to spend exclusive time with a friend of the opposite gender (even for grief), to spend beyond your means, or to make plans without even considering your partner. 

The ISSUE is not "are these right or wrong"? They're wrong! They are behaviors that kill a relationship. 

BUT (and it is a gigantic but)... it becomes controlling when Partner A in the relationship tries to FORCE PARTNER B to not do those things. In real life, to not be a controlling person, what Partner A would say is this: "Partner B, you have to the right, as an independent, autonomous adult, to do any darn thing you want to do! If that is what you want to do or how you want to behave, you are free to do so. But I am also free to do any darn thing I want as well, and I do not choose to be with a partner in life who would behave in such disrepectful, destructive ways to our relationship. You do you. You're free! But I will also do me, and for me, I choose to only partner with a person who treats me with respect and honor."

Can you see the difference?

Controlling=making another person do it the way YOU think is right, whether they think so or not. 
Not controlling=allowing the other person to do as their own code and conscience dictates, and then you deciding whether a person with that code or those boundaries is compatible with you. 

For the lady who wants to rush off and comfort her old friends "who's a boy" I would say this: "Ma'am you do you. If you find that acceptable, then you get to choose who you are and how you're going to act. But running off to old boy friends and trampling your SO's boundaries are incompatible. So make the choice that works for you. You will live with both the benefit of whatever choice you make, and the COST of whatever choice you make."  

See? Not controlling her. Let her be her and then choose if that person is compatible with you.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

NTA said:


> Perhaps we should also discuss the different ways to call someone controlling. I dated a guy who had some bad habits that I didn't like. Ifinally told him that if didn't stop, we would have to stop dating. His response: "Are you threatening me?


I would have replied "Nope just stating a fact. You can choose to stop or not--up to you. And likewise I will make choices for me based on who I perceive you to be."


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Controlling can be described as the 'my way or the highway' attitude which was clearly displayed in the consoling the male best friend thread.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Affaircare said:


> @Evinrude58 ,
> 
> To me this is rather easy. Look at the examples you listed:
> 1) hanging out in bars for girls night​2) going hours away to console or “support” a male friend.​3) asking about spending habits that are clearly out of “control”and suggesting changes.​4) disagreeing with any plans that were made without previous discussion, even if they involve large expense or being apart for long periods of time.​I don't think anyone here on TAM, male or female, would say that behaving like this is "right" in a relationship. Clearly it is "wrong" to hang out at bars all hours, to spend exclusive time with a friend of the opposite gender (even for grief), to spend beyond your means, or to make plans without even considering your partner.
> ...


So if I stay gone fishing too long and miss supper, and my gf gets mad and withholds sex or gives me the silent treatment, can I claim “you’re controlling!”
Or if she buys a sports car on her lunch break while having 160k of debt and zero assets or equity with no prior discussion and never helps pay a single household bill and I threaten to divorce her if she doesn’t take it back..... am I being controlling?

Everyone leverages “something” when they believe the other spouse is being unfair, irresponsible, or unreasonable. I want to know the definition of controlling. Is there a difference in telling someone if you do this, I’m gonna do this, and being controlling, I’d like to know specifically what that difference is, if a difference exists.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Controlling can be described as the 'my way or the highway' attitude which was clearly displayed in the consoling the male best friend thread.


Ok, that’s concise as usual, Blondilocks. Thx


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My ex fiancée....... I told her in those exact words “everything is your way or the highway”, and I did think she was the supreme-guru-Olympic-level controlling person.

so that makes sense.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> So if I stay gone fishing too long and miss supper, and my gf gets mad and withholds sex or gives me the silent treatment, can I claim “you’re controlling!”
> Or if she buys a sports car on her lunch break while having 160k of debt and zero assets or equity with no prior discussion and never helps pay a single household bill and I threaten to divorce her if she doesn’t take it back..... am I being controlling?
> 
> Everyone leverages “something” when they believe the other spouse is being unfair, irresponsible, or unreasonable. I want to know the definition of controlling. Is there a difference in telling someone if you do this, I’m gonna do this, and being controlling, I’d like to know specifically what that difference is, if a difference exists.


I think what you are starting to get into with this thought process are compatibility and boundaries.

I don't know exactly how to define it, but with my STBX, I knew he was controlling me when I would get a BAD feeling, an UNEASY feeling -- I was afraid to defy him (accidentally). Also, his "don'ts" constantly changed based on his mood or what he wanted from me. So I couldn't count on where any boundaries were going to be...and I believe that was because he wanted the CONTROL, so he had to shift the markers in order to test me and feel in control.

I think true "controlling" behavior is toxic -- boundaries might be uncomfortable and make you feel restricted, but you should always feel like YOU are making the choice to honor them. If you feel afraid and trapped, you should examine more closely where those feelings are coming from and what is happening within your dynamic, and set your own boundaries about how you are willing to proceed.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I knew by the end of the first date this was the one* I was going to keep*. 5 weeks later we were married.


A story made for Hollywood. To the men out there, don't do this! This might work 1/10000 times. 

there you go guys. She selected. She had her pick of the liter. This is how it works men. Balance of power resides with the woman in dating. Men present themselves, the woman points -- "you". Women don't advertise their power but they have it. Also, a man who commits immediately thus relinquishing his power. Afraid of losing out. Doesn't want to investigate further making sure there aren't 100 red flags. A guy who takes everything at face value. Normally not a smart move in this modern world. A man who believes in the fairy tale. 

Im curious whether we are dealing w/ Chad here. A guy who ranks very high in looks. Possibly Blue pilled Chad based on his ease of commitment. 

Not knocking you in any way OP. Glad things worked out for you and you have a great marriage. Just pointing out some of the technicals that men traditionally have been clueless about. But you ladies have been well aware. Not even going to get into how easy it is for you ladies to get sex.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

manowar said:


> A story made for Hollywood. To the men out there, don't do this! This might work 1/10000 times.
> 
> there you go guys. She selected. She had her pick of the liter. This is how it works men. Balance of power resides with the woman in dating. Men present themselves, the woman points -- "you". Women don't advertise their power but they have it. Also, a man who commits immediately thus relinquishing his power. Afraid of losing out. Doesn't want to investigate further making sure there aren't 100 red flags. A guy who takes everything at face value. Normally not a smart move in this modern world. A man who believes in the fairy tale.
> 
> ...


LOL He's a quiet commander. I'm also an Alpha with beta tendencies.

But make no mistake. It doesn't matter if sex is involved or money or a job or anything. I get my way because I decide what I want and then I make it happen. I'm talking about life not my relationship. I actually work very hard to make sure I don't bulldoze him. Both when we got married and on the daily.

When he asked me what I wanted for Christmas I said you could take me to Vegas and marry me. He could have just laughed it off I said it kind of jokingly. I left the kitchen and went outside.

He came outside and said plane tickets are $1500. That was him. 

I said well that's too expensive. 

He then said. We could drive. That was him. He packed a 5 gallon spare gas in the trunk. Which we needed because many gas stations where closed Christmas eve and day when we were driving and we ran out in the petrified forest in the middle of our drive.

You see when he decides he wants something he is also a man of action. That's one of the many things I love about him.
He also claims that after our first date he knew he wanted to marry me.

So you can Redpill all you want but he got what he wanted, get sex whenever he wants it and if he tells me to do something I do it. Because as an Alpha who knows how to get what she wants...... I want a happy marriage. It isn't a power struggle. It's us against the world. You should try it. Then you have two powerful people working together, you can accomplish anything AND be happy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My dad said he told my mother on their first date he was going to marry her. She wouldn’t. Apparently he admittedly did not get his butt in gear in life until he met her. He started working hard and doing right and she finally said yes. So apparently this happens. It’s never happened for me. I suppose if I met a woman as good at heart as my mother or my best friend’s mother, I’d like to think I’d recognize it right away and feel the same. 

But I still Think I’m gonna go real slow if I ever get the urge in the future. People can hide a lot of themselves and do.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> My dad said he told my mother on their first date he was going to marry her. She wouldn’t. Apparently he admittedly did not get his butt in gear in life until he met her. He started working hard and doing right and she finally said yes. So apparently this happens. It’s never happened for me. I suppose if I met a woman as good at heart as my mother or my best friend’s mother, I’d like to think I’d recognize it right away and feel the same.
> 
> But I still Think I’m gonna go real slow if I ever get the urge in the future. People can hide a lot of themselves and do.


I suppose they do, buy I've also learned in large part through my own bad decisions that people do show a lot of who they really are...we're just disinclined to believe it.

I'm just as guilty as anyone.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> It's us against the world.



Fk. I like that. that's terrific. this is how it used to be. And how it should be. But in many many cases its not. Women have become entitled and sadly men weakened and disrespected. Perhaps you are a unicorn. It's nice to read your success story, but not a safe blueprint for the modern man.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My dad always told me (my mother died when I was only close to three yrs old) she never bought a dress after they married. She sewed and made all of their clothes. She worked at a bank. Had his bath water run and supper cooked when he got home. She never wanted to talk to any girlfriends on the phone, and the house was spotless and every single thing done when she went to bed. He said all she did was take care of him and us. They lived in the south and saved every penny and didnt even have a box fan the first year they were married. SAved for a house. I told him I didn’t understand how she’d be happy with that kind of life, doing nothing but work. He said that’s what she liked to do. He never made any effort to ask her to do anything. She just did it and liked it. He said she wanted a new car one time. He said “Mary, if you want one, get you one.” She saved and controlled all their finances. He just handed her his check. Only had pocket change for coffee or cigarettes. She saved up and paid cash for a brand new ford Torino. I remember the car. My grandmother used it after she died. 
He and her would go a few miles every evening up to her mother’s to take care of her and my dad would run his rabbit dogs. She was an amazing cook. He said sometimes he’d wake up at 2 am and nudge her and say, Mary, I sure would like some chocolate chip cookies....
she’d get up and make him some.... even if he told her he was just joking. She’d go fishing with him and never wanted to quit even when they stopped biting and it was hot outside.

I always wondered how someone could work that hard every day and be happy. I think she grew up so poor that working is all she knew, and that what would be super hard work to me, was just cruising around to her. He said she would have her three brothers and their families over for supper and the next morning his sides would be hurting because they laughed so hard and so long, every time. I only met two of my uncles. I still have one. They were just super fun to talk to. My last uncle still is. He was/is always a super hard worker and selfless as well. A very Christian man. 

Sorry for the rant. Is it ok to threadjack my own thread?

My point is that a very few people just don’t have any bad qualities to hide. Sadly, it seems they are held on to by their husbands and I’ve not run across one yet. And I do understand that a woman like my mother doesn’t exist anymore.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I suppose they do, buy I've also learned in large part through my own bad decisions that people do show a lot of who they really are...we're just disinclined to believe it.
> 
> I'm just as guilty as anyone.


Yes, the red flags are almost always there and people tend to overlook them because … love. Certainly true in my case.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> I have seen this term “controlling” used so many times by some women against men. Its wielded like a sword and like the term “racist”, is basically indefensible, which is why I think women like it so much.
> 
> It’s labeled as controlling if a guy disagrees with:
> 
> ...


I totally get your point, but all of these examples lack context. Each of these can be viewed as “controlling” if hypocrisy is involved.

I feel very controlled if I am “not allowed” to do something my husband does frequently. It makes me feel like he views me as below him or less deserving while also prohibiting me from doing things he thinks is appropriate for himself.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> My point is that a very few people just don’t have any bad qualities to hide. Sadly, it seems they are held on to by their husbands and I’ve not run across one yet. And I do understand that a woman like my mother doesn’t exist anymore.


I agree with you, I think most people are screwed up these days. I also think most of the decent, dateable people are taken from an early enough age and basically stay off the dating market forever. I've got a buddy I've known since we were teenagers, a great guy, successful and smart. Guy married his first ever GF that he met when we were all around 18 years old. Over 20 years later and they're still together with a couple kids. She's a good woman who stuck by him when he was a poor guy working his way through college.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Of course not.

But it was controlling to tell me I couldn’t wear shoes, couldn’t whistle in the house, couldn’t go up the stairs if someone else was using them, no tv watching, etc etc. 
I agree that no shoes in the house is reasonable. Never had a problem with it. It was the next thing, and the next, and the next.... couldn’t comment on a full moon being full....


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

The example a poster used above is often used by partners where one wants to simply do what ever they like, great example where a man wants to leave his wife and kids at home and just do what he likes and be single. And the poster who threw a bossy fit at us because she wants to be by her guy friends side. Concerns are raised, an argument happens and then other partner gets called controlling. Cause really, one just wants to do what they like and be single while in a committed relationship. 

Controlling behaviour is usually very subtle in the beginning and it takes a long time for a person to realise just how much control they’re under. The victim would probably be in denial for a long time. Usually there’s an element of threatening behaviour of some sort, an element of fear, such that you would not engage in certain behaviours knowing what will come your way. Controlling people also like to punish, especially when the other partner starts expressing concerns or calling people out on the behaviour. This cycle of punishment can go on for weeks, months years. A controlling partner will punish. An angry partner who didn’t like a particular decision their partner made, will get angry, swear and maybe sulk a bit, but goes back to normal pretty quickly.

You know that leaving is probably going to make things worse, so you say nothing to anyone, pretend everything’s ok and keep all the secrets.

If you can freely speak to your friends or family without fear of repercussions, you probably just clash a bit with your spouse.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Luckylucky said:


> The example a poster used above is often used by partners where one wants to simply do what ever they like, great example where a man wants to leave his wife and kids at home and just do what he likes and be single. And the poster who threw a bossy fit at us because she wants to be by her guy friends side. Concerns are raised, an argument happens and then other partner gets called controlling. Cause really, one just wants to do what they like and be single while in a committed relationship.
> 
> Controlling behaviour is usually very subtle in the beginning and it takes a long time for a person to realise just how much control they’re under. The victim would probably be in denial for a long time. Usually there’s an element of threatening behaviour of some sort, an element of fear, such that you would not engage in certain behaviours knowing what will come your way. Controlling people also like to punish, especially when the other partner starts expressing concerns or calling people out on the behaviour. This cycle of punishment can go on for weeks, months years. A controlling partner will punish. An angry partner who didn’t like a particular decision their partner made, will get angry, swear and maybe sulk a bit, but goes back to normal pretty quickly.
> 
> ...


That’s pretty good stuff LL, I agree


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

To add something else: the most controlling partners are cheaters. ‘I can leave you at any time, but I won’t. You’re not going to tell anyone either, because it’s you that’s scared, not me. You’re going to fight for the marriage, not me, and if you do tell anyone, or try to leave me, I’m going to get you for it. You’re going to end up the bad guy here, just wait and see. There’s nothing you can do about this, you wouldn’t dare’.

Notice how quickly a 180 here works, when a cheating partner suddenly sees an unaffected spouse looking good and detached, finding new hobbies and connecting with family and friends. In most cases, they don’t like it, and will get loud, or suddenly sad and emotional. And often try to sabotage a budding and flourishing betrayed spouse by throwing back the focus on the other Party.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

The term controlling, much like narcissist, is just something people throw around to mask their own poor behaviors or to try and make their partner look like the bad guy in any given situation. 

Take one of the examples you picked about the guy being called controlling because he got upset when his GF said she wanted to console her newly single male friend. Imagine you are just a regular guy, you love your girl and are trying to build something meaningful with her. Then one day she hits you with that crap. Maybe you react poorly because you think things are going good and she pisses you off by saying she wants to go off to be with another dude. The proper way to respond would be to just let her take her trip and tell her not to come back but the guy is stupid and he loves her so he feels angry and frustrated but ultimately wants to work things out. But, because he reacts to her poor behavior instead of just telling her to get lost, she can just call him controlling and suddenly HE is the bad guy.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's important to find someone who shares your standards this way.


Wise.
That one is THE answer.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Controlling behaviour and Narcissism is very much thrown around, but also more prevalent than we think, because these people rarely make it to a shrink or police station to be diagnosed as such.

Because true victims rarely speak out. If they do leave, it’s usually very quietly. And a narcissist is rarely the one asking for help because they’re leading the show. Because of course they don’t have a problem and don’t need help. The spouse is pulling all the weight and busy blaming themselves.

People say true narcissism and controlling behaviour is rare, but I’d say it’s rampant for the reasons mentioned above. It’s rare to be diagnosed, but narcissism/being controlling is really common. 

If you’re out proclaiming your partner is controlling or a narcissist to all your friends and family, with a secure group of buddies backing you up, you’re probably that person. But if you’re quietly thinking it, worrying about it and knowing it, and don’t think you can escape or change things, (and you don’t really have a lot of people to talk to because they’ve made sure of this, covertly or overtly) then THEY probably are.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> My dad always told me (my mother died when I was only close to three yrs old) she never bought a dress after they married. She sewed and made all of their clothes. She worked at a bank. Had his bath water run and supper cooked when he got home. She never wanted to talk to any girlfriends on the phone, and the house was spotless and every single thing done when she went to bed. He said all she did was take care of him and us. They lived in the south and saved every penny and didnt even have a box fan the first year they were married. SAved for a house. I told him I didn’t understand how she’d be happy with that kind of life, doing nothing but work. He said that’s what she liked to do. He never made any effort to ask her to do anything. She just did it and liked it. He said she wanted a new car one time. He said “Mary, if you want one, get you one.” She saved and controlled all their finances. He just handed her his check. Only had pocket change for coffee or cigarettes. She saved up and paid cash for a brand new ford Torino. I remember the car. My grandmother used it after she died.
> He and her would go a few miles every evening up to her mother’s to take care of her and my dad would run his rabbit dogs. She was an amazing cook. He said sometimes he’d wake up at 2 am and nudge her and say, Mary, I sure would like some chocolate chip cookies....
> she’d get up and make him some.... even if he told her he was just joking. She’d go fishing with him and never wanted to quit even when they stopped biting and it was hot outside.
> 
> ...


They do. They’re the quiet ones doing just what your mother did. They don’t need the pat on the back or the attention or the accolades and while they might get overwhelmed and cry in the shower when the husband’s not around, they really are happy inside. Truly. I hope he did love her and she died at least being acknowledged and seen for a beautiful desirable woman, rather than for all the things she did. That’s what women like this need to feel, and I hope she felt like a great beauty and a hottie 😍. My grandmother was like this, she gave her all. I like to imagine her young and gorgeous and going out and all the men wishing they could dare approach her. Rather than remembering so much about how good and kind and selfless she was.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Luckylucky said:


> They do. They’re the quiet ones doing just what your mother did. They don’t need the pat on the back or the attention or the accolades and while they might get overwhelmed and cry in the shower when the husband’s not around, they really are happy inside. Truly. I hope he did love her and she died at least being acknowledged and seen for a beautiful desirable woman, rather than for all the things she did. That’s what women like this need to feel, and I hope she felt like a great beauty and a hottie 😍. My grandmother was like this, she gave her all. I like to imagine her young and gorgeous and going out and all the men wishing they could dare approach her. Rather than remembering so much about how good and kind and selfless she was.


He says she had chosen to lose some weight just for herself after I was born and had gotten down on weight such that her doctor told her in front of my dad that she should be in the movies she was so beautiful. And not long after got sick and had breast cancer that had spread all over. My dad said he never heard her say anything negative about anyone all the years they were married. She taught herself how to play the piano. My dad had an older friend that would call every day during duck season and since my dad wouldn’t be home yet from work, he’d tell her “the story”. When he’d get home, she’d see my dad and sAy “do you want to call Dodd, or hear it from me” and smile. The old fellow supposedly adored my mother because she’d always patiently listen to his stories. 
He was a major in Korea and had lost one of his lungs from a bullet wound in battle and received a field commission because all the other officers had been killed or wounded. Quite a character. I remember him clearly. 
So I believe she was remembered as a beautiful person, inside and out. I have only a few treasured memories of my mother, but my mind is filled with many memories of her through my dad, who still loves her.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

It's all about context. Cracking it because your spouse made a huge, expensive purchase without discussing it and insisting it be returned, imo, isn't controlling. Having to ask your spouse for money every time you want a haircut/pair of shoes/for petrol, is imo, being controlled.

Not wanting your spouse spending 1:1 time with an ex isn't being controlling. Not wanting your spouse to have any friends besides you, or go anywhere without you, is controlling.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Its a lot of BS most of the time.....

You get people that can't operate an appliance properly, but if you get frustrated and are constantly correcting them about it,. they call you controlling....Bear in mind, when the thing takes a crap, it winds up being the "controlling" partners problem....Imagine that.....🙄

You can't make this **** up...


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Like beauty, controlling behavior is in the eye of the beholder, typically a wayward.

Selfish people chafe against any boundaries regardless of how fair or well intended they may be.

The best and least employed remedy is to part ways. This shouldn't be a last resort but your first choice.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

There genuinely are some controlling people. Narcissists typically. But most of the time, the word is just thrown around.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Was it controlling to request he remove his shoes when entering my house?


In Japan? No.

Sorry I saw this joke in a movie yesterday. We don’t wear shoes in my house either although we do leave them inside.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Was it controlling to request he remove his shoes when entering my house?





Evinrude58 said:


> Of course not.
> 
> But it was controlling to tell me I couldn’t wear shoes, couldn’t whistle in the house, couldn’t go up the stairs if someone else was using them, no tv watching, etc etc. (...) It was the next thing, and the next, and the next....


Exactly. When I'm trying to understand whether a relationship is controlling, it is the whole pattern of the relationship, not one thing. When someone is controlling, they demand obedience _in all things._ It's not just that they are a stickler about one thing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I do think that the words controlling and abusive are used far too readily these days and that's sad for those who really are abused or controlled.


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> So if I stay gone fishing too long and miss supper, and my gf gets mad and withholds sex or gives me the silent treatment, can I claim “you’re controlling!”
> Or if she buys a sports car on her lunch break while having 160k of debt and zero assets or equity with no prior discussion and never helps pay a single household bill and I threaten to divorce her if she doesn’t take it back..... am I being controlling?
> 
> Everyone leverages “something” when they believe the other spouse is being unfair, irresponsible, or unreasonable. I want to know the definition of controlling. Is there a difference in telling someone if you do this, I’m gonna do this, and being controlling, I’d like to know specifically what that difference is, if a difference exists.


I think controlling is more manipulative. "Oh sure you can give your friends some time." Then every time you're on the phone or getting ready to see them, your partner interferes in some. way .. usually by some sort of emergency; neglect to do something that your partner promised to do and so on.

Among other women, we get the I let you do this or that as if that is actually giving. I was once having a conversation with a friend who had just dumped her "boy friend," His parting words were that he let her / didn't mind her going out and networking and the like. She's a freelance journalist. This was her work. Now that was an attempt at manipulation. I don't remember how difficult it was to get rid of him but he was also a user trying to spend more time at her place because he didn't like his living situation.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

NTA said:


> I think controlling is more manipulative. "Oh sure you can give your friends some time." Then every time you're on the phone or getting ready to see them, your partner interferes in some. way .. usually by some sort of emergency; neglect to do something that your partner promised to do and so on.
> 
> Among other women, we get the I let you do this or that as if that is actually giving. I was once having a conversation with a friend who had just dumped her "boy friend," His parting words were that he let her / didn't mind her going out and networking and the like. She's a freelance journalist. This was her work. Now that was an attempt at manipulation. I don't remember how difficult it was to get rid of him but he was also a user trying to spend more time at her place because he didn't like his living situation.


That’s right, you almost can’t see it happening. The partner isn’t exactly telling you that you can’t see your friends, but…

Someone mentioned above that they control everything, every aspect. Demanding obedience in every area. However, watch out for the other extreme.

I know a particularly disturbing case where a very violent man man didn’t care about a clean house, encouraged his wife to spend a lot of money, and as she aged, encouraged her to drink more and more alcohol (women didn’t drink in this culture). He even ‘encouraged’ her to take a European holiday alone every few years once her kids left home. She took pride in telling everyone this, not realising that he was also running up debts while she was holiday and slowly running her broke.

When they were younger and he was physically stronger, This same man liked to bash her and SEND her to work the next day, almost daring people to challenge him by reporting it. Her colleagues were her only social contacts. So she’s telling one story, and also telling another, the result being even the co-workers and boss were too scared to intervene.

These bashings also took place in front of the children, deliberately. They were made to watch. Children were also beaten and it was forbidden to comfort anyone. The kids weren’t allowed to go to their mother, the mother wasn’t allowed to comfort the children. He would be extremely romantic towards the wife after he’d beaten a child, and there would be a special dinner and affection for the children who weren’t beaten. If the mother was brutalised, he was particularly kind and loving to the children. The contrast was extreme.

One child was actively encouraged to view pornography from a young age, allowed more freedoms, while another was forbidden contact with other children outside her school time. As the children aged however, all physical violence completely stopped.

They tend not to control everything, but rather change their mode of control and let some things slide.

This case is really extreme, but someone really good at this game is so good, that they excel in as many areas that others don’t while commanding absolute power. It was difficult for the wife and children to understand what was happening, let alone for anyone outside to possibly believe it. He learned to be better in some ways at some things than other fathers or husbands.


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

> People say true narcissism and controlling behaviour is rare, but I’d say it’s rampant for the reasons mentioned above. It’s rare to be diagnosed, but narcissism/being controlling is really common.


People say those things because they like showing that they have a perfect. I remember saying that when I play at outdoor courts I always leave my things at the net so I can always see them when I play. The response I got, I can't recreate it, but it left me feeling as if I couldn't trust anyone and therefore, that's why bad things happen to me. To each their own.

It took me a long time to feel comfortable enforcing my own boundaries. Even my parents would discourage me by saying "I don't see that as important" : treating defending myself in a social situation as unacceptable "She didn't mean it" and so on. 

So I learned from the best. My mother would say and do whatever she wants --and she could be crude at times. When I call her on it, I would get some bogus excuse. You can't argue with it or her. So I learned to avoid saying what your intent is, that means no "sitting down" and having a discussion. You just simply enforce your boundaries. 

It is actually a goo method. You don't want to change anyone who doesn't want to change or to deal with someone who has no clue and or is passive aggressive.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I do agree that the word 'controlling' is often being weaponized and in some ways the irony is that it is being used as a manipulation and control point itself. 

But some of what is being labeled as controlling is simply having boundaries and not wanting to be in a relationship with someone engaging in certain behaviors. 

I don't 'control' my partner and forbid her from going to the bar and drinking and partying it up every night. She is a full grown adult that makes her own money and she is free to hit the clubs every night and bang whatever dudes trip her trigger - But I won't remain married to her. It's not me telling her she can't, it's me having my own standards on what I will and will not tolerate in a relationship. 

I also have boundaries and criteria on what I will support and fund financially. My wife currently wants to move to a new house. Again, she is a grown adult and is free to do so. However I shall not be moving with her and I will not support it financially in any way with my money. 

So I am not controlling what she does or where she lives or what she does with her money. I'm not her parent or boss nor her warden. But I am also not her enabler or her gravy train. I have my own boundaries and standards on what I will support and what I will tolerate. 

cont....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

cont....

I do think think in this age of Instagram models and OnlyFans and the multitude of dating apps and websites, that a lot of young women have all these simps begging them for any kind of time or attention and they have guys from across the globe offering them to fly them out to spend a weekend on their yacht etc,, that these girls don't quite grasp that normal, healthy men do have their own boundaries and limits and standards of their own. 

When you have an inbox full of simps from all across the world begging for you and promising you the world, it's easy to think that a normal, healthy guy will let you walk all over him and will still want to be with you no matter what kind of behavior you are engaging in and no matter how badly you are treating him. 

So when a guy that they are involved with says, "well, yes I do have an issue with you sqeezing into a mini skirt and a low cut top with your boobs hanging out, hitting the clubs and hooking up with a multitude of dudes every week and I do not want to date/marry someone who does that.." 
- They accuse them of being controlling and accuse them of being possessive etc


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Yes, the possessive label gets thrown around as well. I agree.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

NTA said:


> I think controlling is more manipulative. "Oh sure you can give your friends some time."


Not always the case though. I have cracked it at my husband a couple of times because he is supposedly too tired to do something with me, yet miraculously isn't when his work mates suggest a pub night. Sorry, but that ****s me.

The problem isn't what he's doing in those instances, it's what he's not doing.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

frusdil said:


> Not always the case though. I have cracked it at my husband a couple of times because he is supposedly too tired to do something with me, yet miraculously isn't when his work mates suggest a pub night. Sorry, but that ****s me.
> 
> The problem isn't what he's doing in those instances, it's what he's not doing.


And here lies the danger of the people they keep around them, or the internet strangers. He could tell his friends, or post online after an argument with you, ‘the missus won’t let me go’. Which in a way is true. But it is his version and takes none of your valid concerns into account. But then, if they’re behaving the same way as your husband, of course you’re going to be called controlling by his buddies. Also, there might be one guy who isn’t afraid of what his mates think, who will decline and say, ‘sorry buddies, I’m taking my wife out on a date!’ And the boys scoff and say he’s under the thumb.

In a good scenario, good mates would be giving him a talking to. ‘Yeah mate, when was the last time you took HER out! Keep going and you won’t have a home to come back to.’ They’d notice his behaviour and respect a good outcome for him. Which is to look after his marriage.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Lol. This discussion is starting to sound like the definition of porn. Can't exactly describe it, but you know it when you see it. 

Controlling to me has always been primarily physical force. You can't go out tonight by yourself. If you attempt to, you'll be stopped and thrown into a locked room. 

There. 

Easier for me to understand. Someone has been controlled. Their agency has been stripped from them. 

I'm with you evinrude, no matter what, there is always leverage. I don't care if someone throws down an ultimatum or makes it sound "nice" with a cherry on top like what affaircare said. Doesn't matter. It is the exact same thing and I don't care how it is delivered. Do this, or else. 

Regardless, it still isn't controlling. No one has forced anyone to do anything against their will. They've only informed their SO that a specific consequence will happen if said action is taken. The "not so controlled" person can still make a choice. 

As such, I find most situations where someone says they are controlled they are not. Especially in the examples you listed. Those are laughable. I think people just succumb to being manipulated, gaslit or back down to more aggressive personalities. Hell, I've succumbed to being manipulated and gaslit before. I'm human. I make mistakes, but I certainly have never had my agency stripped from me.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

At the end of the day, it's much easier to demonize someone(and blame shift) when you can hang a negative label on them, whether it's deserved or not....or whether it's situational or not...

Its no different than the armchair psych diagnoses people place on exes (Narcissist, BPD, etc)...In many situations, it merely was a case of incompatibility rather than a specific personality disorder..


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes I can say in most cases I just wouldn't do it. But the flip side of that is if I felt I needed to he'd understand and support me.
> 
> I feel in this still gendered world that many men expect women to defer to their feelings of disrespect but don't really reciprocate.


In this still gendered world? You mean the real world, reality, etc?

Still gendered is a wildly funny term to throw out.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Luckylucky said:


> And here lies the danger of the people they keep around them, or the internet strangers. He could tell his friends, or post online after an argument with you, ‘the missus won’t let me go’. Which in a way is true. But it is his version and takes none of your valid concerns into account. But then, if they’re behaving the same way as your husband, of course you’re going to be called controlling by his buddies. Also, there might be one guy who isn’t afraid of what his mates think, who will decline and say, ‘sorry buddies, I’m taking my wife out on a date!’ And the boys scoff and say he’s under the thumb.
> 
> In a good scenario, good mates would be giving him a talking to. ‘Yeah mate, when was the last time you took HER out! Keep going and you won’t have a home to come back to.’ They’d notice his behaviour and respect a good outcome for him. Which is to look after his marriage.


I don’t stop him going, I wouldn’t do that and have no problem at all with him going out with his mates.

He better damn well not be too tired to take me out a couple of days after though rofl.


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## EnLiteEndOne (Aug 23, 2021)

"Controlling" in the context of a relationship occurs to varying degrees. I don't think I'm shining a light on new information with that statement either. 
What is worth addressing is the definitive behavior trait the word itself confines the accused to. We already have a linguistic definition for the word controlling. It is absolute and inflexible. It also is the most accurate when describing increasingly extreme examples of the behavior. 
We all know this in a sense because there is internal dialogue and often external advice seeking before placing the mantle on someone we know. To be a truly controlling individual you would do so with intent and most certainly be accurately described as purposefully manipulative as well. 
That is one hell of a badge-of-douchebagarey to be assigned or to assign someone you have intimate feelings for.

Narcissist/narcissism is the same. 

We need to earnestly work on being more precise when feeling the description fits your or another's experience. Take a more measured reflection and decide to what degree it is occuring. 
Use the word 'tendencies' and see if it A) fits better and B) is received less defensively. 

A person can display controlling/narcissistic tendencies and not be a lost cause. 
The simple semantic adaptation is more effective and more accurate to behaviors that occur on a spectrum. 

Or we can come up with new words that describe these behaviors in their lesser states of use.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CountryMike said:


> In this still gendered world? You mean the real world, reality, etc?
> 
> Still gendered is a wildly funny term to throw out.


Yes I mean the real world but specifically there are many relationships where one spouse thinks it is ok for them to have the 'final' say. My point was that in our marriage we both have the final say.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

My definition of controlling is not letting your wife/husband do something that they wouldn't have a problem with you doing. If you have boundaries, no need to control.


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## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> So my question is this for you ladies, what exactly is your definition of a controlling man?


My former wife called me controlling in the divorce court for,
1) Asking her not to have sex with other men.
2) Expecting her to keep her wedding vows given before God.
3) Stopping the Gold credit card she had (on my account) when she refused 1) and 2)
4) Informing the welfare office we were no longer living as man and wife (required by law in the UK).

Sorry OP, I'm not a lady, maybe I shouldn't have posted.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> My former wife called me controlling in the divorce court for,
> 1) Asking her not to have sex with other men.
> 2) Expecting her to keep her wedding vows given before God.
> 3) Stopping the Gold credit card she had (on my account) when she refused 1) and 2)
> ...


Well you rotten, controlling person!!!

what I get is that any time a woman expresses displeasure with a man going fishing too much, spending too much on guns or dogs or atv’s or boats, having dinner with female coworkers one in one, watching football with make friends, or any other activity that takes him away from his wife....,, it’s just having reasonable boundaries. But If a man expresses displeasure with buying too many shoes or purses(damn you ladies love some shoes and purses), has lunch with male coworkers one in one and texts them at all hours of the night, has girls’ night out at bars, etc, it’s ok to say he is “controlling”.

I do feel this word is used as a weapon, and much of the time it’s untrue.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

The boyfriend of the poster in the thread you're talking about was a cuckold. The fact the poster even thought for one second she could get away with flying out to see another guy after he became single is a revolting weakness on the boyfriends part. 

And if I've learned anything posting on relationship forums it's that women have no respect for cucks. Behavior that might seem normal or even sexy from a stronger man becomes "controlling" when coming from a weak man.


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## CookieRookie (Aug 29, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> I have seen this term “controlling” used so many times by some women against men. Its wielded like a sword and like the term “racist”, is basically indefensible, which is why I think women like it so much.
> 
> It’s labeled as controlling if a guy disagrees with:
> 
> ...


The way to negate efforts to gaslight you when you are accused of being "controlling" is to not mind it at all. The inverse of "controlling" is "out of control."


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## JazelleMarcelle (Jan 5, 2022)

Evinrude58 said:


> I have seen this term “controlling” used so many times by some women against men. Its wielded like a sword and like the term “racist”, is basically indefensible, which is why I think women like it so much.
> 
> It’s labeled as controlling if a guy disagrees with:
> 
> ...


Controlling behaviour doesn't have to be obvious and can't necessarily be defined as a specific action as you have listed. Controlling can be very subtle. Giving compliments one day and subtly pointing out flaws the next, watching for a reaction and then claiming it's a joke or they think the flaw is 'cute anyway'. It's a tactic of emotional control. Also, wanting to know where she is all the time. Making her feel she shouldn't want to see friends or visit old work colleagues, but being very subtle about it. If she queries the manipulation/control he makes out she's loopy or paranoid. Telling her she can do whatever she wants but having an opinion on everything she does.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Or how about when you aren't controlling and you instead opt for copycat behaviors, for example, going to bars with friends just like they do? Or having a female friend when they have a male friend? It's funny when the tit for tat stuff pisses them off 🤣 😂. 

Control what you do and they can't say you are.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> It isn't a power struggle. It's us against the world. You should try it. Then you have two powerful people working together, you can accomplish anything AND be happy.


Standing applauses!


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

Mid-50's lady on her 3rd marriage raises hand.

I'm not this way anymore and I haven't been for a while, but in my teens, 20's and even into my mid to late 30's I was this way with my first husband.

I was projecting. I was really insecure. I trusted myself, but not him. I was jealous and in many ways, I controlled him.

I was, still am, feisty and I speak my mind.

I worried about other women around my husband, I wouldn't let him do things but I could do those things.

It wasn't a good way to live. My first husband wasn't perfect either of course, none of us are.

Folks say we need to trust our gut, trust our "spidey senses" and even though I was all the things I stated above, I never had proof of what my first husband was doing and it was beyond bad, from even before we dated, were engaged and married.

It started coming out after our divorce and it kept on coming out for years and years as we've been divorced about 16 years now.

I struggled with all I was finding out about my first husband and it played a part (not all by any means) of my 2nd marriage not working out.

He was crashing and burning after our divorce and he went to a lot of counseling. It took him two years, but he wrote a novel and it was for himself, not me. But eventually I asked him to see it and he didn't want me to as it was for him.

It wasn't simply a timeline, it was him working on how and why his life ended up the way it did, especially when he felt his life held so much promise. In many ways it did. He was smart, went to college, to law school, he was handsome, good at sports, the All-American boy growing up, but he lead a double life during our entire relationship.

His "novel" is just shy of 2,700 pages long.

In many ways, it's his life story, from his birth right up to the past few years.

He saw 5 different counselors, in different states from 2005 through 2013. He was slowly working on his novel during his counseling, but he went into high gear near the end of his counseling in 2013 and he finished it in 2015.

I never accused my first husband of being controlling. It was me who was controlling of him, for many reasons, my insecurities mainly. Sadly, my gut feelings and my spidey senses were correct, I just never knew it all the years we were together.


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## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

In my experience controlling behavior is never that obvious. My ex would tell me I could do anything I wanted. Hang out with a guy friend? Sure. Buy something expensive? No problem. Stay out late whenever? Fine. Drink a little more than I should? Not bothered. Then he would go out of his way to create situations where I couldn't even if I wanted to. I never wanted to but I can't do any of it anyway when I am working 60 hrs a week because he refused to work, or refused to watch the kids. It got to the point that he tried to get me to stop working by controlling the car situation. We only had 1 car. If he had to get up to drive me in I was treating him like an uber driver. If I left him carless I was making him a prisoner. Or when he says I can see whomever I want and talk to friends and family but if he got one whiff they might be strengthening my esteem he woul isolate me through various methods.

So I guess what I am saying is that situations like OP post are definately manipulators!


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Yeah, "controlling" is a bit like porn in as much as it's hard to define legalistically but you know it when you see it .


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> what I get is that any time a woman expresses displeasure with a man


Way too broad a brush here.. just sayin'.


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