# Emotional Affair



## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Trying to reach out to anyone with a similar problem. My husband and I have been married 20 years. Several weeks ago I found he was emailing an old girlfriend. The emails were mostly about what has happened to each of them in the last 20+ years, but many also contained words about how each of them looked forward to the next day's email. They were emailing daily, and my husband seemed to be blindsided by the emotion he felt for her after all these years, and told her this. She agreed that she felt the same way. He was gone with one of our kids when I found the emails, and when he came home he could tell I was very upset about something and point blank asked me if I found them. I said yes and burst into tears. He said that it has been eating at him and he knew it was inappropriate and ashamed of himself. I truly believe there was nothing physical, but for some reason the emotional part of it is so hard for me. I am very depressed and worry everyday there continues to be contact between them. Any advice???


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## Here'sHoping (Jan 8, 2013)

Be glad you caught it when you did...my wife started dialog with an old ex high school boyfriend on facebook and it quickly (6mos) has escalated into her separating...we have been married 14 years.

Make sure he has no further contact with this person!


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

He has betrayed you and the trust & faith you had in him. You should be hurt and depressed. And you never deserved this. He fell in love with an other woman and abandoned you.

I suggest emailing the other woman and telling her to either leave your husband the hell alone or come and get him out of your house now and wreck even more lives. 

As to your betrayer, he needs to live a transparent life from now on. Emails, texts, phone, computer... he no longer owns any privacy. He's thrown that away. And he needs to be fully in agreement and contrite about it.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

I know it may not seem like a big deal to a lot of others, but it doesn't change that I feel betrayed. The emails continued for a couple of weeks after I found them and then started calling her as well. The biggest problem now is I can't seem to stop checking for emails, even though I know he now deletes them as soon as he reads/sends them. He now says that he is not emailing her anymore and has been in counseling for a couple of weeks now.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

eniale said:


> I know it may not seem like a big deal to a lot of others, but it doesn't change that I feel betrayed. The emails continued for a couple of weeks after I found them and then started calling her as well. The biggest problem now is I can't seem to stop checking for emails, even though I know he now deletes them as soon as he reads/sends them. He now says that he is not emailing her anymore and has been in counseling for a couple of weeks now.


If he will not be 100% fully transparent then it is obvious he has not stopped. Were it me, I'd ask him to leave and after a few months of being separated the two of you can make your decision.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

I definitely don't want either of us to "move" out, because neither of us wants a divorce. We have talked a lot and he wants me to go see the counselor with him, but for some reason I am not ready to do that. So this makes me feel like this is my problem and then I get mad because I didn't cause "my problem".


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

eniale said:


> I know it may not seem like a big deal to a lot of others, but it doesn't change that I feel betrayed. The emails continued for a couple of weeks after I found them and then started calling her as well. The biggest problem now is I can't seem to stop checking for emails, even though I know he now deletes them as soon as he reads/sends them. He now says that he is not emailing her anymore and has been in counseling for a couple of weeks now.


It IS a big deal, Eniale. He betrayed your trust. That's a hard thing for him to get back. My husband's EA wasn't with an old girlfriend, but with a woman who I had also considered a friend. For months after discovery, I wondered if I even had the right to be angry about it because I had done the same thing... just for a longer period of time.  But then, after coming to TAM, I realized that betrayal is betrayal. I was fortunate in that my husband went NC with his EA when I gave him the choice of her or our marriage. He chose me and didn't look back. But, for MONTHS afterward, I was checking emails and texts CONSTANTLY. He has given me full transparency and I have done the same. I don't check as much anymore. Now, when I get into his emails it is to delete spam because he doesn't check his emails all the time!  But texts... not a sign of her since Father's Day of last year when she tried "fishing". I still have triggers. I still have days when I second guess myself. But we are in a better place now. Much better.

Did you have your husband write a "No Contact" email to her? If not, I really think you should have him OFFICIALLY state NC NOW, so he can't come back and say "well, I didn't know...." As for the OW... I wouldn't contact her. If she has a SO, I'd suggest exposing this to him. But otherwise, it won't do any good to try to get the OW to see your side.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

He has already said he wants to send her an email letting her know how this has affected me and that he can no longer have any contact with her. He also said he wants me to read it before he sends it. I was not able to read every email that was sent back and forth and for some reason I want to see them all, but he says that he has deleted them and I can't find them anywhere I have looked. I don't know what good it will do at this point. 

I think I just want to have everything exposed fully because every time I find out something new it's like a brand new wound. Sorry for ranting.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Wait, so you discovered them, he asked you about it, you burst into tears, he apologized and said he was ashamed, and THEN continued the exchange and started calling her?


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Yes, alte Dame. This is why I have kept checking email pretty much on a daily basis, although I don't think he has exchanged any emails or phone calls over the last 2 weeks. He did tell me last week she sent him an email and he did not respond.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Wait, so you discovered them, he asked you about it, you burst into tears, he apologized and said he was ashamed, and THEN continued the exchange and started calling her?


That's what I read too. 

Eniale, let him write the NC email. YOU proofread it. Make sure it does NOT put the blame of THEIR actions on YOU! THEY are to blame for this, NOT YOU. As for counseling... suggest to him that you go through MARRIAGE counseling, not just independent. This was HIS screw up and the only way you can "get over it" is if you deal with it... his behavior and how it has made you feel. He needs to see/ hear the ugly truth of what this has done to YOU. Do NOT let him badger you into believing that this is YOUR problem! He needs to own it! End of discussion.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

eniale said:


> I definitely don't want either of us to "move" out, because neither of us wants a divorce. We have talked a lot and he wants me to go see the counselor with him, but for some reason I am not ready to do that. So this makes me feel like this is my problem and then I get mad because I didn't cause "my problem".


Moving out does not equal a divorce. But he is supposedly wrought with guilt and continues to email her and then delete them? That says one thing to me- he's chosen her over you. So, you can take it until it has either run its course, he leaves you for her, or lives with you forever more all the while being in love with another woman right under your nose. It sounds like you're most comfortable with just taking it. 

The purpose of separating for a while is it lets the both of you let the fog clear and determine just what you want. You can get stronger and he can determine just who he loves and wants to devote himself to. But then if he states it's you, you can add some accountability into the mix.

Otherwise, just continue to put up with it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Look - this is how he treats you after 20 years? He needs to go NC with a clear letter that you write and send together. Then he has to be totally transparent (no more deleting e-mails; he hands over all passwords, etc.).

If he won't do it, you kick him out.

Seriously, what kind of respect is this?

Please, please, please do not put up with this a moment longer.

Only when you have confirmed NC do you agree to go to counseling with him.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

eniale said:


> Yes, alte Dame. This is why I have kept checking email pretty much on a daily basis, although I don't think he has exchanged any emails or phone calls over the last 2 weeks. He did tell me last week she sent him an email and he did not respond.


Because of this, you need to tell him that he is to delete NO emails. No exceptions. This is the price he pays for his betrayal. And, he needs to recognize that because he HAS emotionally cheated on you, he is now subject to your "checking up" until such a time as YOU feel confident that there is no reason to check... and that could take 5 YEARS. He doesn't like it? Too damn bad. He should have thought of that before he cheated. And yes, ALL of my passwords are available to my husband, as are his to me. It was one of the things we agreed was necessary in order to repair our marriage. He is free to access my texts, emails, social networks, etc... anytime he wants. And, if he is not comfortable with anything he sees, it is removed, period. These are the things you need to enforce with your husband. And, if he truly wants your marriage to work, he will comply, without hesitation.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Moving out does not equal a divorce. But he is supposedly wrought with guilt and continues to email her and then delete them? That says one thing to me- he's chosen her over you. So, you can take it until it has either run its course, he leaves you for her, or lives with you forever more all the while being in love with another woman right under your nose. It sounds like you're most comfortable with just taking it.
> 
> *The purpose of separating for a while is it lets the both of you let the fog clear and determine just what you want. *You can get stronger and he can determine just who he loves and wants to devote himself to. But then if he states it's you, you can add some accountability into the mix.
> 
> Otherwise, just continue to put up with it.


I disagree. All him moving out will do is enable him to continue in his affair, or worse, possibly escalating it. She stands a better chance of fixing this if NC is established and enforced, while both still live in the marital home.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

And get Shirley Glass's book 'Not Just Friends' and make him read it. You should read it, too, but he needs to understand what he has to do to earn back your trust.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

I already have full access to his all his email and full access to his phone. There has never been any text messages sent. I guess my biggest problem is how it has affected me. I feel really broken. So I am trying to figure out if I am making it worse than it is.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> I disagree. All him moving out will do is enable him to continue in his affair, or worse, possibly escalating it. She stands a better chance of fixing this if NC is established and enforced, while both still live in the marital home.


I understand that point of view. However, he needs to make up his own mind about who he will devote himself to. If it's not going to be his wife, it won't matter whether they are in the same house or not. The absence and time apart will either foster a sense of guilt and desire for his wife or not. But for my money, it's the best way to find out. Also, the poster seems very weak and she will only get stronger on her own with time to really reflect on all this. 

Anyway, my $0.02.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Hey thatbpguy - I am not weak, I am SAD!!!!!!


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

I absolutely will NOT abandon my family! To me that is what weak people do, they run away!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

eniale said:


> I already have full access to his all his email and full access to his phone. There has never been any text messages sent. I guess my biggest problem is how it has affected me. I feel really broken. So I am trying to figure out if I am making it worse than it is.


I can relate. I cried to myself for days at a time. And when I thought I was getting past it, I ended up triggering because of something stupid and really unrelated (as far as I could tell anyway)... So, it lasted for months. And yes, you feel broken. It's understandable. You're going to wonder what you could have done to prevent it (in my case, I know exactly what I could have done to prevent my husband's EA =/). But the thing you need to keep telling yourself is that HE is the one who screwed up here, not you. HE is the one who needs to be proving he wants to stay in the marriage. And you can give him the choice: write the NC letter, you proofread before it is sent, and he focuses his energy on the marriage... including Marriage Counseling (MC).... OR, he can leave. Those are the choices. Stay and work it out or leave. And DO NOT back down at all!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

eniale said:


> I already have full access to his all his email and full access to his phone. There has never been any text messages sent. I guess my biggest problem is how it has affected me. I feel really broken. So I am trying to figure out if I am making it worse than it is.


You feel the way any loyal long-term spouse feels in a situation like this. You feel hurt and betrayed.

When you talk to him, tell him to turn the tables. Say, 

"So, what if I reconnected with an old boyfriend & started e-mailing with him secretly, telling him that I was amazed at how much emotion I felt for him after all these years? What if I wanted to keep talking to this man, so when hubby was upset, I kept at it."

How would he like your being attracted to another man enough to talk at this level?

If you read more threads here, you will see the devastation that EA's cause in marriages. You are not overreacting. Your H is in the process of attaching to another woman. He has broken your trust and your bonds of intimacy. It's a shattering experience for you.

You need to sit together and write out the NC. You need to read 'Not Just Friends' and plan together how you will recover from this betrayal.

And please pay attention to the way cheating spouses find to take their affairs underground. Make sure that they are not communicating in other ways.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

I have thought a lot about other ways he could stay in contact with her, but he knows I am more savvy with computers and such than he is. Still I am not at work with him all day, and I am not stupid. We have a plan to write the NC letter. I am just not comfortable going to a counselor and having all these emotions if front of a stranger. I guess that is what led me here.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

eniale said:


> I have thought a lot about other ways he could stay in contact with her, but he knows I am more savvy with computers and such than he is. Still I am not at work with him all day, and I am not stupid. We have a plan to write the NC letter. I am just not comfortable going to a counselor and having all these emotions if front of a stranger. I guess that is what led me here.


I can understand that. But if you get to the point where you are willing/ready for MC, make sure it is someone who is very familiar with emotional affairs. Otherwise, you may get someone who could say you are blowing this out of proportion.  The test is seeing how well versed they are in Shirley Glass' research. If they are not familiar with it or if they try to brush it off, find a new counselor.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> I can understand that. But if you get to the point where you are willing/ready for MC, make sure it is someone who is very familiar with emotional affairs. Otherwise, you may get someone who could say you are blowing this out of proportion.  The test is seeing how well versed they are in Shirley Glass' research. If they are not familiar with it or if they try to brush it off, find a new counselor.


^^^ Yes!

This is very important. Some MC's make things worse in this regard.

Do your own research and take control of the reconciling process. Make sure you do everything you can to confirm NC.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

I think this counselor he is going to is pretty good. They came highly recommended from a friend of my husband who he confided in. It is at the request of the counselor that I go with my husband, and he agrees and wants me to go. He is trying so hard, a little smothering truth be told. He says he does not want to lose his family. But isn't that what cheaters say? When will I start to believe, I am being so skeptical.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Read around on the forum for women whose H's engaged in EA's. Maybe this will give you an idea of what to expect in terms of your feelings. You can start with threads by canttrustu and LookingForTheSun, perhaps. Maricha75 has experience with EA's and has been helping you a lot on this thread as well.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

eniale said:


> I already have full access to his all his email and full access to his phone. There has never been any text messages sent. I guess my biggest problem is how it has affected me. I feel really broken. So I am trying to figure out if I am making it worse than it is.


Just remember - it's your husband who is messed up. And you are not blowing this out of proportion. The good news is, you can recover from this and so can your marriage - but it will take hard work and total honesty. More importantly, it takes BOTH of you to work this out. If your husband is not 100% on board, then ask him to leave.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

alte Dame said:


> And get Shirley Glass's book 'Not Just Friends' and make him read it. You should read it, too, but he needs to understand what he has to do to earn back your trust.


:iagree: x 100, the book and TAM, are without a doubt what saved me.

Also read this link.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Just some things I have learned that took me a long time to find out. I hope to save you some time frustration and pain.

My wife had an online EA with a complete stranger. She never met him in person. The pain was every bit as real as if she had been with him all that time.

1. The pain from an affair is from the betrayal, and the feelings of rejection. I don't believe the type matters much outside of your perception of the betrayal.

2. Your husband did not love the other woman. He was drawn to the feeling he got from the affair. He may or may not know this yet. He was living a fantasy life. It was not a rejection of you.

3. Do not compare yourself to the other woman. There is absolutely no point in it. His perceptions of her were illusions created by the feeling he got from the affair.

Do not make any decisions about anything at all right now. Instead you should

1. Cry as hard as you can when you feel like crying.

2. Yell as hard as you can when you feel like yelling.

3. Be completely honest with your husband about everything, and demand the same from him.

As much as you are able you should

1. Workout.

2. Eat right.

3. Dress well.

4. Grooming of any kind. 

Make yourself feel as good as you can about yourself.

Drop any expectations you had for the next two years of your life.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Trust but verify, friend. EAs are higly addictive. To need to kill this ASAP. So keylogg the PC, put spyware on the phone, find a way to retrieve the deleted texts, monitor the phone bill. Even get a VAR - voice activated recorder - to place in the car (he can get a secret phone) and GPS to moinitor his whereabouts. It's a war, fight fot your marriage.

Another tool is exposure. If OW has a SO or husband find him nad tell him the truth without warning your husband. 

Keep reading threads here.
I'm sorry you had to find us.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

I do know for a fact that my husband has not seen this woman in almost 25 years. When I ask him any question about it, he answers truthfully. He has not lied to me except by omission. My question now is will obtaining every email between them help or hurt?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

eniale said:


> I do know for a fact that my husband has not seen this woman in almost 25 years. When I ask him any question about it, he answers truthfully. He has not lied to me except by omission. My question now is will obtaining every email between them help or hurt?


Honestly, it could go either way. You can't undelete the emails he has already deleted. But going forward, he needs to NOT delete anything unless/until you have the chance to see them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

When I told him that I wanted to read every email that was sent, he suggested that part of of the NC letter he would ask her to forward them back so that I could see them. He said that that would also be another way of letting her know I am "in the loop" and know everything that was exchanged between them.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

It's one possibility. Just be aware that she may just refuse. Or, she may view that as having a double meaning... I.e. hide things better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

His AP is in a fog of her own. That's why you want to minimize contact with the NC. If any communication continues it could reignite the A.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

I so dislike feeling this way. It is absolutely all consuming. The problem I have is I feel so protective of my husband because I love him and he is a good man. I feel like I have painted such a bad picture of him. I really believe that he did not set out for this to happen and I think that is why he has agreed to anything I ask of him and even suggest what we can do together to make it better. So now I feel as though I am the one that is not trying.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

eniale said:


> I so dislike feeling this way. It is absolutely all consuming. The problem I have is I feel so protective of my husband because I love him and he is a good man. I feel like I have painted such a bad picture of him. I really believe that he did not set out for this to happen and I think that is why he has agreed to anything I ask of him and even suggest what we can do together to make it better. So now I feel as though I am the one that is not trying.


You're on the emotional roller coaster. If you don't like how you feel wait a few hours. You'll feel something new.

Iv'e learned you can speed the roller coaster up by going along with it. If you try to repress it will slow the healing process. Whatever you are feeling you need to allow yourself to feel it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You have to try to give yourself permission to feel hurt for longer than a few weeks or months. Your feelings of pain and betrayal are completely normal & have rearranged your emotional universe. What's happening in your brain is really independent of what your H is doing right now to make things right, although that helps a lot.

Please try to understand that something like this is a serious trauma that generates serious reactions in most people. Many people suffer from PTSD as a result of emotional affairs. You really would do yourself a favor by seeking out some counseling for yourself (as noted, with someone who is trained in the effects of EA's).


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Oh my gosh, I am having such a bad day. This is like a really bad movie playing over and over in my head. I read post after post on other threads and think, Wow I don't have it so bad, but i feel just awful. 

Thank you to all of you who are trying to shed some light into my darkness.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I remain a bit confused about your situation. You say that your H continued contact by e-mail and phone for several weeks after he knew how upset you were. Did he do that secretly? Why did he quit?


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Sorry I don't think I have done a good job telling my story. I am kind of out of it, especially on days like today. Okay, so he was exchanging emails with OW daily for about 10 days before I found out. Emails and phone calls continued over the next week. I know this because he told me. It has been just 7 weeks since I originally found out, and OW has sent two emails in the last two weeks that he has told me about and said he had not responded to them and I have seen any evidence to the contrary.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Why did the e-mails and phone calls continue after you found out?


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Why did the e-mails and phone calls continue after you found out?


I guess I don't really know the answer to that.

In regards to your earlier question alte Dame, "Did he continue emails and also phone calls in secret"? Yes that was done in secret, however I found the additional emails and asked about them. He did not lie about them. In one of the emails he suggested a phone call and they made a plan to speak on the phone, so I asked him if he was calling her. Again he did not lie to me and said they had spoken on the phone. This of course just twisted the knife.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

eniale said:


> Oh my gosh, I am having such a bad day. This is like a really bad movie playing over and over in my head. I read post after post on other threads and think, Wow I don't have it so bad, but i feel just awful.
> 
> Thank you to all of you who are trying to shed some light into my darkness.


Other people having it worse doesn't make your situation any better. It is all betrayal. After that the flavor doesn't matter so much.

Some of the things you've said suggest he may have taken it underground. It's time to start playing detective.

Spyware on the phone, keylogger on the computer, and VAR in the car. Find out where you really stand. Stop talking about it with him so he lats his guard down a little. Once you know what's going on for real you can discus it with him.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You've come here for help and conversation because you don't yet feel comfortable talking to a counselor. I've asked some informational questions because I think the answers to those might help respond to your concerns.

So...I think the fact that you know that your H saw your distress and then continued what he was doing until you had to discover it yourself goes a long way to explaining why your hurt is so deep. He obviously wanted to continue contact even after knowing how badly it hurt you. This is the crux of so much of the incredulous hurt and anger that betrayed spouses feel.

How could he do this knowing how he is hurting me? 

In your case, he didn't just have to imagine it, he actually saw you in tears. And then he kept it up until you caught him again.

So, you're hurt. If I were you, I would now get mad.

I would also, given the evidence, get determined and start to investigate whether it's gone underground.

As much as possible take control of your feelings & try not to feel at the mercy of his actions. It is ultimately your life.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Sadly it is not that easy. I do know how to do all those things however all correspondence if there still is any is done from work and I would not have any access to it. I have full access to his email accounts and phone and there has been nothing since mid December. He has never used his cell phone to call. He is rarely on the computer at home, but again I am able to see all histories.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

After you busted him for the second time, what was his reaction? What did he agree to? What was his explanation for his behavior?


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

By the way after my really bad day on Wednesday. He came home and immediately knew I was a wreck. He asked if we could talk and did not push until I was ready to have a discussion. He begged me to see the counselor with him and I agreed. He got right up and sent email to make the appointment, so it is set. I am really nervous about it.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> After you busted him for the second time, what was his reaction? What did he agree to? What was his explanation for his behavior?


He was way more apologetic for his actions. The first time he seemed more just ashamed of himself. I think he was still thinking he was just catching up with someone he had not seen or spoken to in 25 years. After the discovery of continued contact and especially phone calls, and my reaction to it, he said he knew he had hurt me in a way he may not be able to repair, but that he was going to try anyway.

After the first week's discovery I was of course upset but I did not ever say to him " I don't want you to talk to her" mostly because I was not completely sure how I felt about it and was surprised my reaction was so severe. I kind of thought maybe I was overreacting.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This information is actually encouraging, I think.

The issue with the counselor will be whether he or she takes EA's seriously. They are a rampant but more recent scourge because of cases exactly like yours, where someone 'reconnects' with an old friend or love.

Please try to keep in mind that your hurt is justified & that your H broke trust with you. You do not have to apologize for your feelings. It's difficult to not chide yourself or try to talk yourself into the idea that you are overreacting. You are not overreacting. It seems like your H was the pursuer in this thing. This is a reality in your marriage that has to be faced, not swept under the rug.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

I am not trying to sweep anything under the rug, and he seems to want to hit it head on. I think I am a little afraid of any further discovery and how I will react to it especially if front of a stranger. I don't care what my H sees or what he thinks of my reactions, believe me I have been mad too, and he has seen it first hand. I didn't start this, but I have to fix/deal with it. All this just seems so similar to grieving a death, and it sucks!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

eniale said:


> ... All this just seems so similar to grieving a death, and it sucks!


Yes. Sadly, I think it's a very similar process.

And I'm glad that you can get angry and be honest with your H. Your feelings about counseling are well-founded, imo, but for other reasons. I hope you will feel confident enough to seek out a different counselor if the one you have is not up to the job.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

It's just like grieving a death but it has the nasty issue of not being final. It's like the same death over and over again.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

acabado said:


> trust but verify, friend. Eas are higly addictive. To need to kill this asap. So keylogg the pc, put spyware on the phone, find a way to retrieve the deleted texts, monitor the phone bill. Even get a var - voice activated recorder - to place in the car (he can get a secret phone) and gps to moinitor his whereabouts. *It's a war, fight fot your marriage.*Another tool is exposure. If ow has a so or husband find him nad tell him the truth without warning your husband.
> 
> Keep reading threads here.
> I'm sorry you had to find us.


This!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

eniale said:


> I so dislike feeling this way. It is absolutely all consuming. The problem I have is I feel so protective of my husband because I love him and he is a good man. I feel like I have painted such a bad picture of him. I really believe that he did not set out for this to happen and I think that is why he has agreed to anything I ask of him and even suggest what we can do together to make it better. So now I feel as though I am the one that is not trying.


You're here. You're trying. Believe me. Not trying is saying "I don't care what you do husband. Take a flight and have at it."

No, you're trying. You're fighting.
*
Please read "Not Just Friends".*

*He has to cut all contact. You should be bcc'd on the outgoing email.* (My husband worked with his AP for 10 months after DD#2. It was hell. It still is -- She popped up in the office today to retrieve stuff and have lunch with her other AP's (that's a joke ha ha) and my husband heard her voice down the hall, closed the door and called me, a safety put in place for us until my husband has a new job. His secretary confirmed (- 

*Once there's NC -- the letter's been sent, if you can go to MC with him, do.* (We started in June while they were still working together and it's been helpful, but as Canttrustu told me -- and others -- the real work begins after NC. Much more to the story, but it would be a distraction here.)

She will continue to fish and fish and fish, and believe me, it's gonna be hard for him, especially since you caught it before he could see her ugly side, and they all have an ugly side.* You have to stay on top of it. *

He needs to be accountable for how he spends his time. I don't know what your days are like but can you start having lunch with him? Can you build more time together? Take over the time she's been stealing. Also make sure they are not connected through social media -- if she's a friend on FB or LinkedIn he has to drop her, immediately.

You are NOT being overreactive at all.....this is a very real danger. 

Hang in there!


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

You are not over reacting. You simply caught the A early in the game. If you caught it later you would have a lot more to react to.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Also, it's very much an addiction -- as you'll read here. My husband didn't stop with the flirty emails after DD#1 -- in fact when he was supposed to give her a ride into work she said "you're stuck with me". he wrote "stuck? you know better than that" and so on... He couldn't break it off. He couldn't stop. He was addicted and he now sees and admits that. He wanted to, but he couldn't (just like any addiction, without help, it fails.) 

You're husband continued to email and then called because he was ramping it up. It's an addiction. I'm glad he wants you to go to counseling with him and that he is having you read the NC letter before sending. Please, please have him read "Not Just Friends" -- if anything -- portions of it. Also, exposure is such a fantastic tool. If you can track down her husband or family and expose -- see how her sig other feels about her writing your husband, it'll help.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Also, it's very much an addiction -- as you'll read here. My husband didn't stop with the flirty emails after DD#1 -- in fact when he was supposed to give her a ride into work she said "you're stuck with me". he wrote "stuck? you know better than that" and so on... He couldn't break it off. He couldn't stop. He was addicted and he now sees and admits that. He wanted to, but he couldn't (just like any addiction, without help, it fails.)
> 
> You're husband continued to email and then called because he was ramping it up. It's an addiction. I'm glad he wants you to go to counseling with him and that he is having you read the NC letter before sending. Please, please have him read "Not Just Friends" -- if anything -- portions of it. Also, exposure is such a fantastic tool. If you can track down her husband or family and expose -- see how her sig other feels about her writing your husband, it'll help.


Ditto. My H couldnt cut it off either. Not without me holding his feet to the fire. So sorry but most addicts cant quit their drug without intervention.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

First MC appt. Any advice???


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## Treading (Jan 13, 2013)

Listen to your husband.

He was in contact with this woman for a reason, so you need to listen to his reason and try to find out what is missing inside of him so that you know what has driven him to an emotional attachment with another woman.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Treading said:


> Listen to your husband.
> 
> He was in contact with this woman for a reason, so you need to listen to his reason and try to find out what is missing inside of him so that you know what has driven him to an emotional attachment with another woman.


Wow, that makes it sound like it is "my fault"!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It is completely, absolutely not your fault!

I would want to make sure that the MC is knowledgeable about EA's & does not try to act like this is just a hiccup. Some counselors are professional rugsweepers, so watch out for that.

I would stay simple: What he did was a betrayal and very, very hurtful. You have been seriously wounded and this has damaged your trust and your feelings.

Stay on message and stay confident.

Good luck!


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

eniale said:


> Wow, that makes it sound like it is "my fault"!


EXACTLY. and he's likely still so fogged up that what he spews is vomitus anyway. Listen but with an ear of skeptizism. Fogged up WS' say some of the most ridiculous things you will ever hear. Listen yes, take it all for gospel- HELL NO. It will likely take mos for him to really get to the REAL reason he cheated and it will have NOTHING to do with you and everything to do with some shortcoming within him. Something he will need to address. No one person can/should be their spouse's entire emotional support system. Its not possible and not healthy. He needs to learn to look within. To look to healthy relationships with friends(male) and family and with you as his wife.

Good luck. And Alte is absolutely right-this is NOT your fault. And be sure your MC is schooled in infidelity and its effects on marriage and subscribes to the Shirley Glass method of getting it all out in the open and NO rugsweeping.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Met with counselor. It was not exactly MC, because this is person has been meeting with my husband, but thought a good idea for me to be "in the know" that he was actually meeting with someone and to get a little of my side. He did suggest that I meet with a different counselor separately, and then later MC together. Does this seem right?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

eniale said:


> Met with counselor. It was not exactly MC, because this is person has been meeting with my husband, but thought a good idea for me to be "in the know" that he was actually meeting with someone and to get a little of my side. He did suggest that I meet with a different counselor separately, and then later MC together. Does this seem right?


If it were me, I would prefer the IC to MC. I don't think the MC's generally know what they are doing, especially in cases like yours. A knowledgeable counselor for yourself, though, could really help you understand and validate your feelings.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

eniale said:


> Met with counselor. It was not exactly MC, because this is person has been meeting with my husband, but thought a good idea for me to be "in the know" that he was actually meeting with someone and to get a little of my side. He did suggest that I meet with a different counselor separately, and then later MC together. Does this seem right?


yes. Usually once a counselor has established a relationship w a person they dont then become a couples counselor to that marriage. So yes, thats right. They have already got some bias toward the person they've been seeing.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

canttrustu said:


> *EXACTLY. and he's likely still so fogged up that what he spews is vomitus anyway. *Listen but with an ear of skeptizism. Fogged up WS' say some of the most ridiculous things you will ever hear. Listen yes, take it all for gospel- HELL NO. It will likely take mos for him to really get to the REAL reason he cheated and it will have NOTHING to do with you and everything to do with some shortcoming within him. Something he will need to address. No one person can/should be their spouse's entire emotional support system. Its not possible and not healthy. He needs to learn to look within. To look to healthy relationships with friends(male) and family and with you as his wife.
> 
> Good luck. And Alte is absolutely right-this is NOT your fault. And be sure your MC is schooled in infidelity and its effects on marriage and subscribes to the Shirley Glass method of getting it all out in the open and NO rugsweeping.


I should make it clear my H has never told me that this has been my fault. One of the other posts said that I should listen to my H because he had a reason, and I read that as the poster believed it was most likely something I did or did not do to make him do this.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The impression I had was that what your H did was impulsive/compulsive, that he got into an ego-stroking communication with another woman and didn't stop to think about either why he was doing it or what effect it would have on you. And when you discovered it, he figured it wasn't so bad for some reason & kept it up, just damaging your relationship more.

So, it's definitely something he did & something emanating from him & he has to work to repair this now.

It's clearly a tremendous shock to WS's to see the unbearable pain and hurt they cause with their careless, selfish behavior. Your H now has to deal with his own realization of what he's done to you. Was his inability to control his desire to flirt with this woman worth the damage done to your marriage? This is what he has to grapple with now.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> The impression I had was that what your H did was impulsive/compulsive, that he got into an ego-stroking communication with another woman and didn't stop to think about either why he was doing it or what effect it would have on you. And when you discovered it, he figured it wasn't so bad for some reason & kept it up, just damaging your relationship more.
> 
> So, it's definitely something he did & something emanating from him & he has to work to repair this now.
> 
> It's clearly a tremendous shock to WS's to see the unbearable pain and hurt they cause with their careless, selfish behavior. Your H now has to deal with his own realization of what he's done to you. Was his inability to control his desire to flirt with this woman worth the damage done to your marriage? This is what he has to grapple with now.


You are right it was impulsive and it made him feel good in many ways. I do think he is working on what damage this has done to me and to our marriage. I was just saying before that he has never said to me - "this is your fault because you did this or did not do that".

He does seem to get frustrated with me sometimes, and "I" think it is because he thinks I am not trying. He has not said this it is my perception, which is probably not too good right now.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It seems to be a powerful reaction on the part of WS's, especially with EA's, to decide unilaterally that it's all over and done with simply because they say it's all over and done with. So, they are busted, they go NC and then say, "Nevermind, no harm, no foul. Can't we just rewind and act like we were before all this unpleasantness occurred?" And then they get frustrated because they think the BS is making too big a deal out of it. They simply DO not get the earthshaking bomb they've just thrown into the marriage. The only way they understand is if the tables are turned, I think.

So BS's often get defensive and question their own sanity because they are told over and over that they are making too much of it, that they should be over this. The EA is insidious this way.


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## whywhy804 (Jan 16, 2013)

So sorry you are going through this... I understand as I have a similar situation at home. My husband wouldn't even agree to go to IC or MC... 

Wish you the best!


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

whywhy804 said:


> So sorry you are going through this... I understand as I have a similar situation at home. My husband wouldn't even agree to go to IC or MC...
> 
> Wish you the best!


Thank you. I too am sorry for your situation. I wish you the best on this long road ahead.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

This sucks, had pretty much an entire week just pretending nothing is wrong around here. I was really hoping after meeting with counselor he would be willing to talk a little more openly. It just seems like he knows I am still having a lot of trouble dealing with all of this, and just doesn't want to say anything in hopes it just goes away. 

Happy f****** New Year!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

eniale said:


> This sucks, had pretty much an entire week just pretending nothing is wrong around here. I was really hoping after meeting with counselor he would be willing to talk a little more openly. It just seems like he knows I am still having a lot of trouble dealing with all of this, and just doesn't want to say anything in hopes it just goes away.
> 
> Happy f****** New Year!


Don't LET it go away. Eniale, if something specific is bothering you, tell him. And if he tries to say anything resembling "I wish you would just get over this already"... ANYTHING similar to it, call him on it. You have every right to feel the way you do. And he needs to do what it takes to HELP you through this... even if it is uncomfortable for him, which is very likely.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Don't LET it go away. Eniale, if something specific is bothering you, tell him. And if he tries to say anything resembling "I wish you would just get over this already"... ANYTHING similar to it, call him on it. You have every right to feel the way you do. And he needs to do what it takes to HELP you through this... even if it is uncomfortable for him, which is very likely.


Thats funny you say this (well not really funny at all) when we were at the counselor we were talking about me not seeing every email in their entirety, and the counselor said it would be very good for him to give them to me. Of course they have been deleted now. So the counselor told him to really think about it and try to recreated the history. He (the counselor) then said that he did not really think that the problem was my H hurting me more than it was him (H) having to expose himself like that.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think being concise and matter-of-fact can help. Either write a letter or sit him down and tell him something like:

"What you have done has damaged my trust in your commitment to me. The effect is serious. I have done research and found that my reaction is normal and healthy. You must actively address this or our marriage is in trouble."


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I think being concise and matter-of-fact can help. Either write a letter or sit him down and tell him something like:
> 
> "What you have done has damaged my trust in your commitment to me. The effect is serious. I have done research and found that my reaction is normal and healthy. You must actively address this or our marriage is in trouble."


OP, listen to ^^alte dame^^ and take heed. 

She is a very discerning young lady.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

old timer said:


> OP, listen to ^^alte dame^^ and take heed.
> 
> She is a very discerning young lady.


(short tj)

young at heart, at least


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I think being concise and matter-of-fact can help. Either write a letter or sit him down and tell him something like:
> 
> "What you have done has damaged my trust in your commitment to me. The effect is serious. I have done research and found that my reaction is normal and healthy. You must actively address this or our marriage is in trouble."


So this is the problem. I see him doing anything and everything to make it better. It just isn't making me feel any better.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

eniale said:


> So this is the problem. I see him doing anything and everything to make it better. It just isn't making me feel any better.


You no longer trust him, I'm betting. This is a huge change in the dynamic of a relationship. If he values his marriage, he must understand that and try to earn at least some of it back. For your part, you need to decide whether the loss of trust is forever and if so, whether it's a deal breaker for you. 

This all takes time. Some people know unequivocally that they will not recover any trust and that they can't live with it. Others think that they can learn to trust some more, perhaps not completely, but more than they do right after DDay.

Take some time to regroup. Make sure your H knows what his end of the bargain is now. Try to ascertain his sincerity as well as you can. It's possible that he's killed things for you, but maybe not. No matter what, you'll survive.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

eniale said:


> So this is the problem. I see him doing anything and everything to make it better. It just isn't making me feel any better.


Exactly how I feel/felt at times. Explain this in no uncertain terms. I think my wife actually understood it when I explained it like this:

He had your ear and I did not. I could never defend, explain, admit or contradict ANYTHING that you two shared. All he had to do was listen, gauge what you wanted and respond accordingly. How do I compete against a person that only has half the story and his, plus your, best interest at heart? I can't; of course I was the bad person. The thing that makes this hard, is everything I see you doing NOW should have been done then. Even if it was yelling, leaving notes, writing on a huge grease board or whatever. I was never given the chance to be the same or a better spouse. You made an "us" decision by yourself.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

Has anyone here ever written a letter to the OW? I ask this because something happened at work for me this week that upset me to tears. This reaction really surprised my co-workers because that is not something that I do. I am pretty sure if I was not dealing with all of this and stressed out so much I would not have reacted this way. Anyway it was obvious that someone should ask what was wrong. I told them what had made me upset and how I felt about it, and I really felt better.

So my thought is kind of the same will it make me feel better to tell the OW, exactly how this has affected me and my family? Maybe it won't I just thought I would put it out here.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Some suggest to write such letters for the catharsis it brings...

and then burn them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Different strokes, I think.

Usually, the advice is to contact the spouse of the AP to expose the affair, which makes it much more difficult to carry on the affair. I'm assuming you have enough transparency that you don't think your H has taken this underground? Or is that one of the things that is eating away at you so badly?

If I recall, you are resistant to IC. It would help you, though. MC, no, but IC for you would be good if you find a good therapist.

You've had your foundations shaken. You haven't yet come to terms with the idea that this could spell the end of your marriage. If you are a person who can't accept his EA emotionally, then it may be a deal breaker for you in the end. When you accept this reality, you will calm down and feel better because you will have established some mental control again.

They say that you have to be willing to lose it to save it. In your own mind, you have to find some acceptance of the idea that your H may just have truly ruined things & again, that you will survive if that is the case. Time will tell. Give yourself some time to see how you feel for the long term.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Different strokes, I think.
> 
> Usually, the advice is to contact the spouse of the AP to expose the affair, which makes it much more difficult to carry on the affair. I'm assuming you have enough transparency that you don't think your H has taken this underground? Or is that one of the things that is eating away at you so badly?
> 
> ...


So I have started IC. I have only had a couple of sessions. I guess I will just have to see how it all plays out. My H has his own IC sessions, and the plan it to do MC together a little later after we have each had some time to work on some our own things. I still have so many questions, and I feel like there is so much more to know, and I can't get past it.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

eniale said:


> So I have started IC. I have only had a couple of sessions. I guess I will just have to see how it all plays out. My H has his own IC sessions, and the plan it to do MC together a little later after we have each had some time to work on some our own things. I still have so many questions, and I feel like there is so much more to know, and I can't get past it.


Good for you. Are you "jiving" with the counselor?

If not, don't be shy about going to someone else.


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## kandaharkurt (Jan 31, 2013)

Im brand new to this, would someone please guide me to where I can add a new thread?

Thank you,
KK


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

kandaharkurt said:


> Im brand new to this, would someone please guide me to where I can add a new thread?
> 
> Thank you,
> KK


Go to the Coping With Infidelity Forum page and click on the 'New Thread' button on the top left. From there it should be pretty clear what you do.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

eniale said:


> So I have started IC. I have only had a couple of sessions. I guess I will just have to see how it all plays out. My H has his own IC sessions, and the plan it to do MC together a little later after we have each had some time to work on some our own things. I still have so many questions, and I feel like there is so much more to know, and I can't get past it.


How are things going with your H? Are you two talking productively?


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## kandaharkurt (Jan 31, 2013)

Ah ha...there it is. Thanks much!


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Go to the Coping With Infidelity Forum page and click on the 'New Thread' button on the top left. From there it should be pretty clear what you do.


I did that back in November... 
I've been confused ever since.


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> How are things going with your H? Are you two talking productively?


Sadly no productive talking, at least IMO. We talk and much more patient with each other, but if we really actively start talking about his EA, he says "I don't know what else you want me to say, I have told you everything. I take full responsibility and I am sorry". He asks how he can help me feel better, but I don't know what to say to that.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

eniale said:


> Sadly no productive talking, at least IMO. We talk and much more patient with each other, but if we really actively start talking about his EA, he says "I don't know what else you want me to say, I have told you everything. I take full responsibility and I am sorry". He asks how he can help me feel better, but I don't know what to say to that.


I think he really doesn't know what to say. You will probably have to tell him, quite literally. Take some time to think very carefully yourself about the actual steps he could take to help your hurt. Short of taking back what he did, what could he do? They can be little things to start. Make a list. Think about it. Take some time thinking - let your thoughts develop.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

old timer said:


> I did that back in November...
> I've been confused ever since.


Don't kid a kidder, OT. You were confused long before you got to TAM.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Don't kid a kidder, OT. You were confused long before you got to TAM.


Thank you Captain Obvious :lol:


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

old timer said:


> Thank you Captain Obvious :lol:


My pleasure, O Muddled One. 

(end threadjack)


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> My pleasure, O Muddled One.
> 
> (end threadjack)


HEY! I thought this was about me? 

I am kidding of course. I am happy to see some humor in all of this!


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

I can generally find humor in all situations. 

It may be sick humor, but humor nonetheless. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Sorry, OP. old timer has a way of lightening things.


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## 4getmenot (Jan 24, 2013)

eniale said:


> I know it may not seem like a big deal to a lot of others, but it doesn't change that I feel betrayed. The emails continued for a couple of weeks after I found them and then started calling her as well. The biggest problem now is I can't seem to stop checking for emails, even though I know he now deletes them as soon as he reads/sends them. He now says that he is not emailing her anymore and has been in counseling for a couple of weeks now.


I have a very similar situation, although even less contact between them (that I know of). Facebook messages (I had allowed them to be friends, so not quite so bad), but then they exchanged private emails and had apparently ONE phone call between the two of them, 2 years ago (after 18 years of marriage). I'm pretty sure this is the extent of it (except that he also admits to calling her 1 year before he married me to tell her he was getting married...ugh). Even with it being "only one phone call and few private emails to exchange phone numbers" - I am devastated. So I truly understand your pain. 

I feel like he never really got over her, a small part of his heart was reserved for her. I thought we had true love, where all others are obliterated. I feel like I will never trust that he truly loves me. What a terrible loss to experience, when you thought you had all that for many, many years. 

So, no, you are not over reacting. Check out my thread if interested in reading another similar story. I still need to finish reading your thread. Hugs to you.

P.S. I just found out about 2.5 weeks ago - can't stop checking emails, etc. even though I know he'd delete anything now, too, if he was still communicating with her. I do feel in my heart he isn't talking to her/trying to re-initiate anything with her, but I still have nagging fears/hypervigilance as they call it.


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## 4getmenot (Jan 24, 2013)

eniale said:


> Sadly no productive talking, at least IMO. We talk and much more patient with each other, but if we really actively start talking about his EA, he says "I don't know what else you want me to say, I have told you everything. I take full responsibility and I am sorry". He asks how he can help me feel better, but I don't know what to say to that.


My husband said the same thing. I have had to educate him on how BS's need to rehash the event, over and over again...and how his response to this whole thing will either make or break us. I told him if he really loves me, he will be patient and do everything he can to help me process what has happened and hopefully someday rebuild trust in him. He has slowly become more and more aware of how serious this is and how it isn't going away. He is very remorseful. I told him I thought we had true love, and that now, I don't think I ever had that, and I don't trust that he truly loves me the same way I love him. I told him I am grieving over the loss of what I thought we had - true love, honesty, commitment to each other. I think that also got through to him as well. 

I found this written for the WS - a manual for how to help your BS heal. Perhaps it would be helpful to you as well?

http://www.emotionalaffair.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Understanding-Your-Betrayed-Spouse.pdf


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Keylogger and phone app. Verify if continued contact. In my experience, once the ball starts rolling it doesn't stop until it crashes itself or YOU crash it.


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