# Extreme Shame keeps him from talking????



## newlife94 (Aug 11, 2011)

I am wondering about my WH.....he still sticks to his story that this was just a "friend"- we all know it wasn't, but we'll go with that for a minute.
Ok, my question is- he says he is committed to working on the marriage, has been nicer to me (although we have had a few ups and downs since R), and has worked to get our dream assignment (going back to Europe with the Army). He says that if he weren't committed to me and our M....why would he be working so hard to get us back where we wanted to go? I can't answer that because he has not answered my questions about what really happened. 
I think that he is so ashamed of what happened when he was in the fog- that when he looks back and IF he were ever to admit anything about an A (he still does not acknowledge even an EA)...then he would have to face the reality and enormity of what he did. Now, I am trying to be understanding and let him work through this (mind you he is still deployed, so this is difficult to R long distance) BUT I am 100% committed to R and I know he is trying.
Do I keep picking at the scab, which makes him angry, or do I just let us work on R? If he never comes completely clean, does that hurt me later? He knows that I know more than what he admits, but he still sortof makes excuses- like they spent time together because that was his only friend. W/e!!!! You have a family you could have called home to if you were lonely! Anyway. 
I think he is also trying to "man up" so to speak and not feel like a controlled husband by letting me "tell him who he can be friends with." He has this girl (I say that because she is 10 yrs younger than us) on his skype account but says "I don't talk to her like you think I do." (meaning frequency) The last I can tell, he skyped with her in June....1 month after our R date. But he does have 2 secret email accounts that I can't see, so I cannot confirm if she writes him there or not.
That being said, she is in another country- I am in the US and he is in Iraq. When he gets home, we will move to Europe- she is going to still be in that other country...far from us. So, even if he talks to her on the phone, I think he is coming out of the fog and seeing life for what it is. And she is seeing him for what he is-- A FATHER of 3 kids, a husband for almost 15 YEARS and she cannot be his girlfriend. Duh!!!
Anyone ever experience anything like this? Input please.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Ready?

My wife's responses early on:

- Physical? Have you looked at him lately?
- I didn't have sex with _
- Are you serious (crying)? OK, I'll give you that one (meaning I'm an a-hole for asking)
- He tried to kiss me once and I said "were not doing this"
- We all went to a bar
- We made out in the office once
- No, no, it was only an EA

OK, now I will give you the answers I extracted from her (because without deception she was never coming clean)

- Physical? Have you looked at him lately? - Had sex numerous times (guy #2)

- I didn't have sex with _ - See above answer (guy #2)

- Are you serious (crying)? OK, I'll give you that one (meaning I'm an a-hole for asking) - Was having a relationship for years (guy #1)

- He tried to kiss me once and I said "we're not doing this" (guy #1, legit relationship with everything physical, dates, trips)

- We all went to a bar (she went to guy #2's house for the day)

- We made out in the office once (had sex in the office with guy #2)

- No, no, it was only an EA (see above answer)

Sorry to give you this post, but if my wife could lie this well to herself, how would I ever have gotten the truth without intense investigation, deception, and hammering away emotionally until I broke her down to Chinatown. My brother warned me that I could inflict permanent emotional damage by going the route I went, but with my WW, unless I GOT HER TO VOCALLY ADMIT EVERYTHING, she would never have changed, because the things she did were not a reality to her. Scary stuff.

Oh - one more thing, familiarize yourself with the difference between shame and remorse. Remorse is the goal here.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

newlife,

There can be no healing until the cheater owns/takes responsibly for their action.

They have to come completely clean.

I know of no other way...

Bet wishes,

GM


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

If he's not coming clean and you need to know.....the two of you are kidding yourselves with the R. I personally had to know everything I could find out. I was eventually convinced of the story by my wife (with a little distrust). If she had not told me the OM would have had to....and I probably would have left my wife if I had to go to the OM to reveal her lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## newlife94 (Aug 11, 2011)

I do agree, without him admitting that what he did was wrong and for him to stop turning the tables on me- he has to have remorse. Right now he does not apologize for anything. She is still sending him emails and I do believe they talk on the phone. 

One of my friends told me that he could refuse to cut her out of his life because he wants a plan B. I do believe that. During our R process he has said to me several times "see this is why I told you it won't work, you are going to hold this over my head." What I found out..... he is sorry for taking the divorce process so far and for it lasting so long. Anything he did or did not do according to him, he is not sorry for. He even justifies his communications with her mother...this part disturbs me more than anything.
Thank you all for your responses. I am trying to get the courage to confront this more directly and just tell him this is a deal breaker for me. It is hard, I am losing sleep, eating horribly and this is stressing me out. We have 3 kids and I need to do what is right for us and not him.


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## newlife94 (Aug 11, 2011)

I just don't know how to approach this with him???!?!?! Just tell him that it hurts my feelings that he does not see this communication as wrong? He calls me controlling. 
If I tell him that him emailing her mom is wrong- he says she is part of a support group sending care packages. Well, if that were true..why does he have to send pics of himself to her? Why does he ask how her kids are? Why does he call her daughter such an angel and say all these personal things? 
Why can't he understand how hurtful this is to me????? Oh, because it is not about me!!!! It is still all about him, yet I am the controlling, selfish one.


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## southernmagnolia (Apr 12, 2011)

newlife94 said:


> I am wondering about my WH.....he still sticks to his story that this was just a "friend"- we all know it wasn't, but we'll go with that for a minute.
> 
> *That isn't coming clean, he is still denying.*
> 
> ...


*This girl is NOT the problem and moving away from her will not solve the problem. The problem is your husband and the affair is still going on. There isn't any reconciliation possible until he can own what he did and actually take real concrete steps to rectify it, so far he is batting a 0. *



newlife94 said:


> I do agree, without him admitting that what he did was wrong and for him to stop turning the tables on me- he has to have remorse. Right now he does not apologize for anything. She is still sending him emails and I do believe they talk on the phone.
> 
> *Again the affair is still going on, don't you see that? I'm sorry but it is. *
> 
> ...


I'm soo sorry that this has happened to you and I apologize for sounding harsh. Please realize that you deserve better than this and as hard as it is, you will have to put your foot down and be willing to let him go if he can't do right by you. He is putting the blame on you, trying to make you think that it's your fault and you are crazy. Please don't let him do this to your self esteem, because you know inside that your gut is not wrong. Right now your husband is a big *******! Believe it.


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## newlife94 (Aug 11, 2011)

southernmagnolia said:


> *This girl is NOT the problem and moving away from her will not solve the problem. The problem is your husband and the affair is still going on. There isn't any reconciliation possible until he can own what he did and actually take real concrete steps to rectify it, so far he is batting a 0. *
> 
> 
> 
> I'm soo sorry that this has happened to you and I apologize for sounding harsh. Please realize that you deserve better than this and as hard as it is, you will have to put your foot down and be willing to let him go if he can't do right by you. He is putting the blame on you, trying to make you think that it's your fault and you are crazy. Please don't let him do this to your self esteem, because you know inside that your gut is not wrong. Right now your husband is a big *******! Believe it.


You are right, he is still in it.....trying to ride the fence. Won't admit anything and never said he was sorry for how he made me feel. Still blaming me, getting angry- I feel very insecure in this marriage, like he is looking for reasons to be mad at me. I will not do this to my children or myself. We all deserve better. I hope his "friend" is worth the family he is giving up- we are still a family and thankfully the Army has given us plenty of opportunities for resiliency training and also given us a feel for what it will be like without him here. His fantasy life will crash and he will be alone.
Thank you for your cander, I truly appreciate the swift kick!!!


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

newlife94 said:


> You are right, he is still in it.....trying to ride the fence. Won't admit anything and never said he was sorry for how he made me feel. Still blaming me, getting angry- I feel very insecure in this marriage, like he is looking for reasons to be mad at me. I will not do this to my children or myself. We all deserve better. I hope his "friend" is worth the family he is giving up- we are still a family and thankfully the Army has given us plenty of opportunities for resiliency training and also given us a feel for what it will be like without him here. His fantasy life will crash and he will be alone.
> Thank you for your cander, I truly appreciate the swift kick!!!


What is horribly ironic is that this very atttiude _could_ be the one and only thing that turns him around. Not hopeful about it, but it really is the 180 epitomized...and sounds like too late even if he did.


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## southernmagnolia (Apr 12, 2011)

newlife94 said:


> You are right, he is still in it.....trying to ride the fence. Won't admit anything and never said he was sorry for how he made me feel. Still blaming me, getting angry- I feel very insecure in this marriage, like he is looking for reasons to be mad at me. I will not do this to my children or myself. We all deserve better. I hope his "friend" is worth the family he is giving up- we are still a family and thankfully the Army has given us plenty of opportunities for resiliency training and also given us a feel for what it will be like without him here. His fantasy life will crash and he will be alone.
> Thank you for your cander, I truly appreciate the swift kick!!!


Now you are talking! :iagree:

I can't imagine how hard it is, I really can't but you can't go on living like you are. 

Sometimes the only way someone can grasp the consequences and wake up to what they are going to lose is to have it put right in their face. Then they have to wake up because reality hits. It takes a brave woman to be able to kick a man off the fence, but you are doing the right thing. No woman wants crumbs, and damn it, you are his wife, no crumbs for you. :smthumbup:

Reach out and get the support you need. 

I'm a firm believer in that people treat us how exactly how we allow them to.


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## newlife94 (Aug 11, 2011)

newlife94 said:


> I just don't know how to approach this with him???!?!?! Just tell him that it hurts my feelings that he does not see this communication as wrong? He calls me controlling.
> If I tell him that him emailing her mom is wrong- he says she is part of a support group sending care packages. Well, if that were true..why does he have to send pics of himself to her? Why does he ask how her kids are? Why does he call her daughter such an angel and say all these personal things?
> Why can't he understand how hurtful this is to me????? Oh, because it is not about me!!!! It is still all about him, yet I am the controlling, selfish one.


Ok, so earlier this week....I could not take his stuff anymore. He calls and acts like everything is ok. I was very quiet (doing some of the 180) and he kept asking what was wrong. I finally told him. His talks with her mom were inappropriate- he tried to say "she is a blue star mom that sends care packages." (Blue star moms have a soldier deployed) My response: "you have your own blue star mom that you completely cut off communication with. Oh and you have a blue star WIFE and 3 blue star sons!!!"
He did get quiet. I think it finally may have hit him- in the heart- what he had created. He still will not admit that this was a "relationship" and still says she was a friend, but he did say that this all happened during our separation (he had emailed me from Iraq and told me he wanted it "over"). So he is justifying his behavior. Of course he is.
Then I put it all out on the table, everything that I knew- how he talked about her little brothers drawing pictures for him (her _little_ brothers are younger than OUR children! And I asked him how that would make our boys feel to know that he seemed so excited about other kids and did not call them for almost 2 months! 
He will not be getting a dad of the year award after this behavior. BUT he did acknowledge that this had hurt me and that he did not want me to hurt, wanted me to take time for myself (encouraging me to be a stay at home mom again, which is what I had wanted to do before he asked for a D!) With him deployed and our 3 kids, work took away from the time I wanted to focus on our family.
I am still confused, but I think the fog is lifting and he is starting to see what he created. It is disgusting to read what he wrote, but I know it was this other identity he created.


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## newlife94 (Aug 11, 2011)

And I feel better for saying it and not holding it in any more! I could not take it any more. He could not pretend that it did not happen and I certainly could not. I figured what is the worst that could happen????? Divorce?!?!? Well, we are already headed there anyway, better to get it off my heart and out of my mouth!


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