# How does porn affect a woman's self-image?



## that.girl

A discussion on another thread has me thinking about porn, and how it affects a woman's self-image and sexuality.

I want to be clear, I don't want to discuss the morality of porn, how the actors are treated, etc. I want to know how the images in porn affect the way women feel about themselves.

I'll start -
My ex-husband had a daily porn habit. Most of his views on sexuality and women were shaped by what he watched online (he didn't have much real-life experience before me). In his mind, "normal" women didn't need much foreplay, came easily and often, loved anal, and did whatever a man enjoyed without asking for anything in return.

I am not a porn star. I need foreplay, don't like anal, don't come easily, and have my own sexual needs. For years, my husband quietly compared me to "other women." Other women are into anal. Other women can come without much effort, why couldn't I? Other women give it up any time, any place, because they love their man.

I felt like I didn't measure up. Like I wasn't enough, because I wasn't like "other women." It took me years to realize that "other women" meant the girls he watched in porn, not actual real women. His standard of "normal" was set so high by an endless flow of beautiful women happily doing anything and everything, that I could never possibly reach it.

Constant comparison to women who weren't real, and didn't act the way real women act, made me feel like I was broken. It nearly shattered my self esteem. I still struggle with feeling like I should push myself outside of my sexual comfort zone to please a man.


Has the images from porn, or its affect on your love life, changed your self-image?


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## Holland

But is it the porn that was the problem or your husbands immature way of viewing the world?

Any half intelligent person knows that advertising is there to take money from us for things we don't want or need. We know that what the advertisers say and what is really delivered can be vastly different. Every person that has ever bought a Big Mac knows that what they get is not the same as the highly manipulated photo on display.

So what is the difference? Porn is not a depiction of reality and I would question the intelligence of any person that thought it represented real, daily life. That is not the fault of porn, it is false advertising at it's best but weak minded people buy into it. 

My partner watches porn occasionally, far less than he used to before we met. We have a very active sex life which has resulted in his porn viewing habits to decrease dramatically. I don't watch it often anymore either, sometimes we watch it together. It does not impact on my self image, for us it is just one small part of our sex life, just adds a bit of spice once in a while.

But Mr H is an excellent lover, very giving and skilled. He makes me feel sexy and beautiful, he shows how much he desires me and most importantly he has a grip on reality. 

Never let anyone make you feel that you have to live up to their distorted image of reality.


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## that.girl

Porn isn't reality. But there are studies suggesting that it becoming so readily available to young people is changing the way we think about sex. Young people a few generations ago didn't have nearly this much access to so many bodies doing so many different things. It's bound to affect the way we look at sex, ourselves, and each other.


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## EleGirl

While some people realize that porn is all faked, others seem to think it's real.

I remember more than one thread here a long time ago in which men said that they liked porn a lot because the women were enthusiastic about sex, made a lot of noise, and etc. They felt that their wives did not show the same enthusiasm and so they were very disappointed in sex with their wives.

I've often wished we could have talked to their wives. There is a possibility that their wives loved their sex live. That the guys were expecting/wanting the big show put on by porn stars.


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## Pooh Bear

that.girl said:


> A discussion on another thread has me thinking about porn, and how it affects a woman's self-image and sexuality.
> 
> I want to be clear, I don't want to discuss the morality of porn, how the actors are treated, etc. I want to know how the images in porn affect the way women feel about themselves.
> 
> I'll start -
> My ex-husband had a daily porn habit. Most of his views on sexuality and women were shaped by what he watched online (he didn't have much real-life experience before me). In his mind, "normal" women didn't need much foreplay, came easily and often, loved anal, and did whatever a man enjoyed without asking for anything in return.
> 
> I am not a porn star. I need foreplay, don't like anal, don't come easily, and have my own sexual needs. For years, my husband quietly compared me to "other women." Other women are into anal. Other women can come without much effort, why couldn't I? Other women give it up any time, any place, because they love their man.
> 
> I felt like I didn't measure up. Like I wasn't enough, because I wasn't like "other women." It took me years to realize that "other women" meant the girls he watched in porn, not actual real women. His standard of "normal" was set so high by an endless flow of beautiful women happily doing anything and everything, that I could never possibly reach it.
> 
> Constant comparison to women who weren't real, and didn't act the way real women act, made me feel like I was broken. It nearly shattered my self esteem. I still struggle with feeling like I should push myself outside of my sexual comfort zone to please a man.
> 
> 
> Has the images from porn, or its affect on your love life, changed your self-image?


That's a good question. I don't know. I think for me advertising and people on tv would have a bigger affect not porn. I think there have been times in my life when I have compared myself to people on tv. Yet I don't know if I have been completely hung up on it except when I was a teen-ager. And men have been attracted to me so I haven't had a problem there. 

It sounds like your ex was completely immature and I'm so sorry you felt that way. You deserved better.


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## couple

It's hard to generalize since there is all types of porn and guys (and women) 'use' it in different ways.

Also, many women DO have the libido, 'wildness' and willing often shown by women in porn sex scenes. And some who don't fantasize that they do.

A porn using man can just as easily have his self-esteem threatened by all the well-hung muscular male porn stars who perform like supermen and have endless streams of women who want to have sex with them and go crazy for them constantly having orgasms, etc (at least per the story line).

In many things in life, people take it to extremes and can't separate fantasy from reality. Like being obsessed with wealth, expensive cars, or whatever.


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## SimplyAmorous

Speaking of Soft or Romantic porn. I find it wonderful to watch and not any different than what we DO .. even though they are just acting.. I enjoy it more than he does ! ...

We had an evolving in these things...

Coming from a softer porn perspective...and years ago ....we come from a generation long before the net.. My H only ever cared to look at still photos of Playboy bunnies







..... some may call this more like ART... he never had interest in seeing the MAN in anything...still doesn't to this day..No willies for him...

He had 300 Playboy magazines under his bed as a Teen, would pick them up at flea Markets .... this is something that never died in him.. to this day.. he is still looking at these naked beauties...I don't have a problem with it..

There was a time, when I was going to church, always taught porn was BAD, EVIL, corrupting, I'd find folders on his Desktop saved of these bunnies...I'd delete them, I cried, I put scriptures on his Desktop.. but Ya know what, I wasn't exactly being the Hot wife at that time, too stupid, busy with kids , church... so shame on me !

IN reality, he never put them before me...I think I was more worried about his being Corrupt/ a Bad man over his not wanting me.. or comparing me.. . I was just being "religious" looking back... He was at my beck & Call.. I always felt loved and desired by him.. so I can't say Porn was ever a problem in our relationship, only went I acted out those couple times -shaming HIM. 

In his youth, he read the articles from those magazines... from this he learned about women and what to do with them..I have no complaints what so ever that this affected him in a bad way.. I even feel it was GOOD.. this *was* his sex education.. I was his 1st everything ...and from the very beginning.. I felt he was a wonderful lover.. he always gave me enough foreplay...and cared a great deal about my orgasm... I always came 1st..or he'd feel bad.. and be ready to do it again to please me ..

Porn has been more of a spicing for us in the last 6 yrs...again soft porn and we watch it together.


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## SimplyAmorous

badsanta said:


> Hey S.A.
> 
> All the guys in my freshmen dorm would have been very jealous that Mr. S.A. has found someone that is OK with porn!  Something tells me you are actually one of the rare few that can actually have a healthy attitude about it!
> 
> Cheers (imagine an entire hall of naive college freshmen guys, probably just loosing their own virginity, in the background clapping, screaming, and cheering you on!) :toast:
> Badsanta


Well I didn't fully understand the insatiable raging of the male sex drive...the visual lust some men have here... but even in my youth (dating), I had a "boys will be boys" type attitude .. 

I knew he had a few VHS tapes with strippers / dancing / the pole on it.. .. a few yrs back, I looked one of those up online for him and re-bought it.. (it was his favorite)... none of this was alarming to me.. or any kind of deal breaker.. and I personally always loved a Hot R rated sex scene, I just didn't need the "up close- in & outs" of it..

I do recall putting in a Porn tape a few yrs into our marriage though...and pretty much being repulsed by it.. it was HARD CORE ... 

Neither of us care for that..we both find it demeaning and don't understand how anyone could get aroused by that.. but OK...


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## that.girl

intheory said:


> I will never be those women. They are everything the culture (my H included) see as beautiful. When you finally like yourself in spite of all that; it is a freedom you can't imagine. I wish that for you that.girl.


Thank you. 

I used to like myself a lot more, and starting to feel that way again was actually part of what led me to leave. 

But it's kind of funny that i don't actually have a problem with porn in general, and i sometimes like some of it. I just don't like being compared to it, i guess.


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## lifeistooshort

My perspective on porn changed when I found out that one of my grade school friends runs a site. I have a pic of us in her living room, which she asked me not to post online because it looks nothing like what you see. She's average looking at best, naturally thin but no breasts and no tone. Everything on her site is heavily doctored, it doesn't exist, yet lots of guys buy right into it. Even her biography is fake.

Everything in print and video is fake. I showed my hb a pic of a well known swimsuit model on the beach without doctoring and posing and he didn't recognize her. She was nothing spectacular. I think it's very sad that so many spend so much time getting off to what doesn't exist. Thatgirl, I feel sorry for your ex. He's never going to be happy and he's never going to make someone else happy. Even if he could find such a woman what does he have to offer her? I'd bet nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous

that.girl said:


> Thank you.
> 
> *I used to like myself a lot more, and starting to feel that way again was actually part of what led me to leave.
> 
> But it's kind of funny that i don't actually have a problem with porn in general, and i sometimes like some of it. I just don't like being compared to it, i guess*.


I just seen this other post of yours...on that other thread...which sheds some more light here -to this discussion...



that.girl said:


> My XH pursued women he felt would be sexually adventurous, until he met me. He married me, knowing i was sexually tamer than he would like, because he wanted a stable woman to take care of him.* He then spent many years pushing me to behave more like a porn star in the bedroom.
> 
> I spent most of my marriage feeling sexually inadequate. I felt obligated to push outside of my comfort zone to make him happy, and it caused me to resent sex, and resent him*.


So your Husband has always been one into *Hard Core* and this is what he EXPECTED in the bedroom... so you and him have gone your separate ways then, it sounds. 

Porn can be a devastating problem for some couples.. Men with addicting personalities combined with a very high testosterone doesn't help matters.. *it's not YOU*[email protected]#$...you have to know this.. he's got some real issues, no woman would be able to please him.. .unrealistic expectations at play here. There's been a # of stories on TAM where the Husband -he was out of control in this.. like this thread... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/63101-porn-ruining-my-marriage.html



> *lifeistooshort said:* *Thatgirl, I feel sorry for your ex. He's never going to be happy and he's never going to make someone else happy*.


 I agree.. something in him is missing and *he's trying to fill a void through Porn*.. that's what people do when they are addicted... it's not healthy.. it will only bring the sufferer and those in his life more pain.


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## 'CuseGal

My ex-H was into porn pretty much the whole time we were together. I could tolerate the SI Swimsuit Issue and even Playboy, but it seemed like as time went by he got into heavier and more hard core stuff. It was hard for me to continue wanting him sexually knowing what kind of cr*p he was getting off on - once it turned into really nasty stuff it grossed me out and knowing he was into that kind of thing really bothered me. Not because I couldn't do it or even didn't want to do it, but because it was WRONG. The stuff he was looking at was just plain unnatural as far as I was concerned. Did I think he really wanted to screw animals or dead bodies, or to watch me doing those things? No. But that he could actually get aroused watching those kinds of scenes - that he was deliberately going LOOKING for those kinds of things - was a HORRIBLE turn off for me. But I think he had been looking at porn for so long - and having multiple affairs for so long - that he needed darker and darker stuff in order to even get off anymore - kind of like with drugs. The longer you do it the more you need.


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## ConanHub

'CuseGal said:


> My ex-H was into porn pretty much the whole time we were together. I could tolerate the SI Swimsuit Issue and even Playboy, but it seemed like as time went by he got into heavier and more hard core stuff. It was hard for me to continue wanting him sexually knowing what kind of cr*p he was getting off on - once it turned into really nasty stuff it grossed me out and knowing he was into that kind of thing really bothered me. Not because I couldn't do it or even didn't want to do it, but because it was WRONG. The stuff he was looking at was just plain unnatural as far as I was concerned. Did I think he really wanted to screw animals or dead bodies, or to watch me doing those things? No. But that he could actually get aroused watching those kinds of scenes - that he was deliberately going LOOKING for those kinds of things - was a HORRIBLE turn off for me. But I think he had been looking at porn for so long - and having multiple affairs for so long - that he needed darker and darker stuff in order to even get off anymore - kind of like with drugs. The longer you do it the more you need.


True. Sorry you were put through that. It takes more and more and darker and harder to excite.


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## Holland

badsanta said:


> Hey S.A.
> 
> *All the guys in my freshmen dorm would have been very jealous that Mr. S.A. has found someone that is OK with porn!  Something tells me you are actually one of the rare few that can actually have a healthy attitude about it! *
> 
> Cheers (imagine an entire hall of naive college freshmen guys, probably just loosing their own virginity, in the background clapping, screaming, and cheering you on!) :toast:
> Badsanta


Look closely at her post. Mr SA is a great lover, he watches the same type of porn as her, she is not sexually neglected or emotionally abused in any way.

Now think about the reason that many woman are against porn including the OP here. It is the way some men view it, believe it, want women to act like porn stars, watch porn that is degrading (massive turn off for many women).

The problem here is men's attitudes, not women's. Plenty of women like and watch porn, plenty of women are fine with their partner watching porn. Porn it self is not always the problem, it is the men's attitudes and unrealistic expectations that are the issue.


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## Cletus

Holland said:


> The problem here is men's attitudes, not women's. Plenty of women like and watch porn, plenty of women are fine with their partner watching porn. Porn it self is not always the problem, it is the men's attitudes and unrealistic expectations that are the issue.


Is a man married to a woman who dislikes porn of any variety - I'm talking Playboy here - required to honor her wishes to never view it, even if he never talks about it, never compares her to those women, and rarely if ever turns her down for sex? Does the answer change if she controls the sexual frequency in the marriage?


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## Holland

Cletus said:


> Is a man married to a woman who dislikes porn of any variety - I'm talking Playboy here - required to honor her wishes to never view it, even if he never talks about it, never compares her to those women, and rarely if ever turns her down for sex? Does the answer change if she controls the sexual frequency in the marriage?


If he were a man of substance he would have discussed this issue before getting married. 

I do not believe in controlling another's mind or what they view so you are asking the wrong person. It should be a topic that is open for discussion by two rational people, they are either on the same page or not, if not then there will be conflict. My partner knows my views on porn as I know his, it is something we talk about like adults.

I'm not going to reply about the controlling of frequency of sex, it is a foreign concept to me personally and really is not what the OP is talking about.


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## Cletus

Holland said:


> If he were a man of substance he would have discussed this issue before getting married.


Then I am not a man of substance.



> I do not believe in controlling another's mind or what they view so you are asking the wrong person. It should be a topic that is open for discussion by two rational people, they are either on the same page or not, if not then there will be conflict. My partner knows my views on porn as I know his, it is something we talk about like adults.


I'm trying to understand under what circumstances you consider the man's attitude to be the problem. When a man and a woman cannot come to an agreement about porn, should the man always be expected to defer to his partner? 



> I'm not going to reply about the controlling of frequency of sex, it is a foreign concept to me personally and really is not what the OP is talking about.


But it very well might play a large role in pornography use in a marriage.


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## Holland

Cletus said:


> Then I am not a man of substance.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to understand under what circumstances you consider the man's attitude to be the problem. When a man and a woman cannot come to an agreement about porn, should the man always be expected to defer to his partner?
> 
> 
> 
> But it very well might play a large role in pornography use in a marriage.


Not sure why you are twisted about my posts? I am not anti porn, I am pro rational conversation and meeting each others needs.

Men's attitudes are a problem when they believe porn is real, when they want women to be porn stars, when they neglect their partners in favour of porn. If this is not you then surely there is no need to get upset about my posts?

The OP is about porn harming a woman's self image. YES it can, all I am saying is that sometimes it is the men in their lives and their viewing habits are what hurts the woman, not the actual porn. If you don't agree then fine but some men that are having problems may learn something....

Women are not automatically anti porn, many women enjoy porn BUT a woman in a relationship with a man that treats her badly due to his porn viewing with lose respect and desire for him, simple.


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## Cletus

Holland said:


> Not sure why you are twisted about my posts? I am not anti porn, I am pro rational conversation and meeting each others needs.


No one is upset here, certainly not this man of little substance . Just looking for clarification. It wasn't obvious to me in what complete context you were forming your statements.


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## tacoma

that.girl said:


> Porn isn't reality. *But there are studies suggesting that it becoming so readily available to young people is changing the way we think about sex.* Young people a few generations ago didn't have nearly this much access to so many bodies doing so many different things. It's bound to affect the way we look at sex, ourselves, and each other.


Being the perennial "porn defender" this is going to sound odd coming from me but this bothers me as well.

Bothers me so much that when I had "The Talk" with my daughter is was a topic I brought up with her.

I have recently begun to believe that this is a problem with the "shift" in our societal outlook on porn and sex in general.

The old guard (porn/sex-negative) is still espousing their views while the new rebellion (porn/sex-positive) are ascending their places in our social/sexual culture and the juxtaposition has a negative effect on the sexual self-esteem of individuals (women in particular).

Think about it.
In the 50's no one had a problem with "****-shaming" because no one ever spoke out against it so it was the status quo that sex before marraige or promiscuity was pretty much derided by all.

Now we're in the midst of that sex-negative culture being wiped out but not quite there yet, in fact it's really just beginning.

In another 50 years this entire topic will most likely be a moot point for the general population.

With that change will eventually come a society that doesn't indoctrinate sex-negative beliefs in women and the insecurities and self-esteem issues surrounding it will greatly decrease.

I hope.


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## tacoma

Holland said:


> So what is the difference? Porn is not a depiction of reality and I would question the intelligence of any person that thought it represented real, daily life. That is not the fault of porn, it is false advertising at it's best but weak minded people buy into it.


Holland,

I completely agree with what you're saying here BUT....

My problem with porn (god that seems weird typing that) is children.

A huge percentage of kids get absolutely zero education about sex and when they do it almost never touches on the societal/emotional aspects of it.

We have kids growing up with no clue about what the reality of sex is or is supposed to be and many do indeed seem to be taking their education from porn since it's so readily available today.
In many cases it seems they are turning porn into the "reality".

This scares the **** out of me.


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## that.girl

badsanta said:


> Porn has very different effects on different relationships, and it may even have different effects on the same relationship over the course of time.


This is an interesting point. Porn was a non-issue for the first few years of our relationship. I generally have the opinion that what a guy does when I'm not in the mood is his business. It took a few years before i started to see how it was affecting us. 

XH still doesn't really believe it affected us at all. He just doesn't see it.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening all
I think that porn, movie violence and movie romance are all completely fine IF the viewer is really aware that they are fantasy and not in any way a guide to real behavior. 

I share some people's concern that learning about sex from porn would be as bad as learning to serve in the military by watching Rambo. Just as bad to learn about romance from almost any Hollywood romance (where being incompatible and disliking each other is shown as a sure indicator of love).

As an aside, some porn is completely unrealistic, but some is actually a reasonably indication of lovemaking - but it is more difficult to find (mostly amateur).

I can easily see how women would be bothered by much mainstream porn - would be made to feel somehow inadequate because they could not be instantly ready for sex and orgasm in a few seconds. 

In the same way though, men can be made to feel inadequate by James Bond movies - I mean, how does he fit a week's worth of cloths (not to mention guns) in that tiny suitcase.....


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## sidney2718

that.girl said:


> Porn isn't reality. But there are studies suggesting that it becoming so readily available to young people is changing the way we think about sex. Young people a few generations ago didn't have nearly this much access to so many bodies doing so many different things. It's bound to affect the way we look at sex, ourselves, and each other.


I think that's right. And as long as we are terrified of really talking about sex to teen-agers (and yes, I mean the nitty-gritty details) porn will be used as the sex education of choice.

As for young people many years ago, they often knew NOTHING, especially about satisfying a woman. Porn was an improvement.


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## sidney2718

Holland said:


> Look closely at her post. Mr SA is a great lover, he watches the same type of porn as her, she is not sexually neglected or emotionally abused in any way.
> 
> Now think about the reason that many woman are against porn including the OP here. It is the way some men view it, believe it, want women to act like porn stars, watch porn that is degrading (massive turn off for many women).
> 
> The problem here is men's attitudes, not women's. Plenty of women like and watch porn, plenty of women are fine with their partner watching porn. Porn it self is not always the problem, it is the men's attitudes and unrealistic expectations that are the issue.


So true, so true.


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## sidney2718

tacoma said:


> Being the perennial "porn defender" this is going to sound odd coming from me but this bothers me as well.
> 
> Bothers me so much that when I had "The Talk" with my daughter is was a topic I brought up with her.
> 
> I have recently begun to believe that this is a problem with the "shift" in our societal outlook on porn and sex in general.
> 
> The old guard (porn/sex-negative) is still espousing their views while the new rebellion (porn/sex-positive) are ascending their places in our social/sexual culture and the juxtaposition has a negative effect on the sexual self-esteem of individuals (women in particular).
> 
> Think about it.
> In the 50's no one had a problem with "****-shaming" because no one ever spoke out against it so it was the status quo that sex before marraige or promiscuity was pretty much derided by all.
> 
> Now we're in the midst of that sex-negative culture being wiped out but not quite there yet, in fact it's really just beginning.
> 
> In another 50 years this entire topic will most likely be a moot point for the general population.
> 
> With that change will eventually come a society that doesn't indoctrinate sex-negative beliefs in women and the insecurities and self-esteem issues surrounding it will greatly decrease.
> 
> I hope.


Being one of the lone survivors of the '50s still around here (I was in college then) I can tell you that basically there was NO sex education at all. What one knew came from one's family, if they ever talked about it, and from the "street" with all the misinformation they could manage.

Porn changed that. Playboy especially. It wasn't just the pictures, although full page nudes were not common back then except in Playboy
and some less desireable magazines. The key was the column, the Playboy Advisor who gave information about female body parts that we didn't even know about.

I think folks today would have trouble even grasping the magnitude of the ignorance around back then.

Today porn poses a problem. It has been well discussed here already. What we need more is more openness about sex in society. Even Hollywood sucks as far as realism is concerned. And we are getting nowhere in sex education.


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## sidney2718

Mr.Fisty said:


> Parts of our society finds sex as a taboo subject. Face it, we are not taught what good sex entails, and sex is pretty awful for two inexperienced people. I was lucky my first was an older person who had experience, whom did not mind teaching me how to please her.


You were very lucky. Many folks in my generation (graduated high school in 1950) knew NOTHING about sex. By the time the late '60s and early '70s rolled around with "free love", "swingers parties", and porn in mainstream movie houses my generation began to understand what they had missed. And they'd missed a lot. The divorce rate in those years shot up like a rocket.



> Kids know nothing about foreplay, erogenous zones, sensuality. They are blind. There are horror stories about someone trying anal for the first time, and they did not know that they needed lube, and it takes time to work your way up.


I've never seen lube actually applied in a porn film showing anal. Where were they to learn how to use it? Mom certainly wasn't going to tell them, even if she knew herself.

In fact anal sex remains so secret and hidden that even today it is regarded as something somewhat exotic.

But what to do about the kids who know nothing? Develop some porn features that are, without being obvious, instructional manuals? Have a Nova series on it?


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## EnjoliWoman

I'm going to start by addressing printed porn.

As a young girl (10-12?) I found my Dad's playboy magazines. His brother always gave him a subscription as a gift. As a curious kid I would look at the photos and I assumed my body would morph into what these women looked liked. The older I got the more disappointed I was in my body. I did not have C-cups or flat stomach or perfectly curved hips/buttocks. I was self conscious of all of these. I did not like the way bathing suits fit or how my nearly-Bs did not fill out the top the way I'd like. I felt inadequate. 

These feelings became the foundation for a tendency to avoid nudity, have sex in the dark and be very jealous of women with larger breasts and hated it when boys looked at other women because I assumed it was because I didn't have enough to offer. Because of this I settled for the first boys who paid me attention instead of ME being who selected THEM. This pattern resulted in my accepting less than stellar boyfriends and eventually husband. I gravitated to what I wanted to be: confident. 

My ex seemed confident and made fun of my physical shyness. He was over-confident and narcissistic which translates to emotionally abusive and occasionally physically abusive. When I was with him I was completely insecure and his criticism of my words, actions, body, intelligence, etc. wore me down daily. He often viewed porn on the internet and although he had enough previous partners to know about foreplay, etc. he did expect a certain amount of acquiescence and thought I should enjoy things that I did not. I'll never know if it was because of porn or because his narcissism made him assume I enjoyed/wanted something just because he did. 

It wasn't until I was much older that I learned to be OK with average size breasts and imperfect butt and love who I am. The whole package of the good and the imperfect. And I'm OK with a little porn or soft porn now, but on the other hand, women are already told constantly be media we aren't perfect enough in so many ways that porn can add another dimension to a feeling of inadequacy. 

Before I found those magazines, I never gave a thought to my body, my budding breasts, my mother's or sister's body or those of other women I met. People were just people. I'll never know if I would have been more comfortable in my own skin had I never seen them. 

I realize this question was more about how porn affects men's view of women and sex but it also impacts our own view of ourselves.


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## lifeistooshort

intheory said:


> After finding my husband viewing porn, ages ago at the beginning of our relationship, I was in tears. I thought we were supposed to love each other, be loyal all the way, "true blue" etc etc.
> 
> He laughed at me and told me that I wasn't everything he wanted in a woman.
> 
> Should I have left then? I don't know. But, looking back, would I have ever found a guy that found me to be enough; and want me more than he wanted the women in porn?
> 
> Probably not.


Perhaps, but you might have found one that wasn't a$$hole enough to tell you that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

intheory said:


> After finding my husband viewing porn, ages ago at the beginning of our relationship, I was in tears. I thought we were supposed to love each other, be loyal all the way, "true blue" etc etc.
> 
> He laughed at me and told me that I wasn't everything he wanted in a woman.
> 
> Should I have left then? I don't know. But, looking back, would I have ever found a guy that found me to be enough; and want me more than he wanted the women in porn?
> 
> Probably not.


You found a winner didn't you?
Do you look like a warthog? If not, your H is wrong and an asshat!

I am too angry to continue. Why are you with him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

Your H is sexually immature and crippled. Many things make sense now.

Has he ever gone to counseling of any kind?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

intheory said:


> Yes. A few times. I don't know what he got out of it.
> 
> I don't think my husband is any different than the millions of men who love this stuff.
> 
> He just doesn't pretend that he isn't attracted to the women. Or, lie to me and tell me I'm as desirable as they are.
> 
> He's definitely much better looking than me. I'm certain he is with me for emotional reasons.
> 
> But that's not the thread topic. The thread topic being "does porn affect a woman's self-image" This woman would have to say; yes, it did.


Thank you for sharing. My POV about your H stands. He is unhealthy sexually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone

intheory said:


> Yes. A few times. I don't know what he got out of it.
> 
> I don't think my husband is any different than the millions of men who love this stuff.
> 
> He just doesn't pretend that he isn't attracted to the women. Or, lie to me and tell me I'm as desirable as they are.
> 
> He's definitely much better looking than me. I'm certain he is with me for emotional reasons.
> 
> But that's not the thread topic. The thread topic being "does porn affect a woman's self-image" This woman would have to say; yes, it did.


I totally hear you on this, intheory. It breaks my heart that my SO prefers other women over me, and so often I've been tempted to throw him out on his a$$ for it."If you want 'em, go get 'em"

But I would actually rather know the brutal honest truth than the be deluding myself that my h thinks I'm all that, when he is lying through his teeth. I see here so many guys that outright advocate these kinds of lies so they can manipulate their wives and make their own lives easier, and I can see the utter contempt and self-serving cowardice behind it. 

Frankly, I want none of that. Indeed, it would be 10x worse because I'd feel like I'd been played for a fool as well.


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## Wolf1974

intheory said:


> Yes, that was my husband at his worst.
> 
> But, surely, everyone who watches porn; wants to watch somebody else having sex. Someone who *isn't* their partner.
> 
> *Here,on TAM, I've heard people say it's not about the people, it's about the sex act. Which I don't understand; the sex acts are people. That's what a sex act is!!*
> 
> A lot of men obsess over their favorite adult performers. Of course it's about the women. And largely what they look like. And their on-screen personality.
> 
> My husband has told me that if he were a musician, he would have had sex with as many groupies as possible. He can't see how a guy could ever say no.
> 
> He also obsesses over penis size, like 99% of all men, I guess. But once, when he was feeling really low about his (normal/average) penis, he said ,"Well, I guess you know I'll never be unfaithful to you." To which I responded, "Yes. You will always be 100% faithful to your fears about your penis size"
> 
> 
> I have always been happy with him; that way. But, of course, he's thinking of the sexually confident sexy women that he feels he can't have, because they might say something to hurt him.
> 
> I'm sure he got a lot of his ideas about sex, women, penis-size from porn.
> 
> My point? Is he really so different than most of the guys around here and in life? Is he scathingly honest and brutal? Yes.
> 
> And that is his ugly side. He has many good qualities. I need to make that clear.
> 
> Warthog. No. My husband's ideal woman. No.
> 
> Marriage isn't just about the way you look.


I can only offer my perspective. I don't know your husband so can't say what he says or feels. But you ask why men look at porn if not for the beautiful people. Because it's stimulus. In my case I am,I suspect like most guys, very visually wired. In order to orgasm I need visual stimulus. When having sex I always have some light or candle so I can see my partner. When masterbating use porn. So looking at the people involved is no different to me than when women use a dildo or vibrator to get off. It's designed and should be a substitution not a replacement. 

I don't obsess about porn actress or even have a favorites list or a file full of the specific things. Most of the men I know are more like this then obsessed with it. 

I agree with Conan that you husband doesn't sound very sexually healthy. I don't think anyone who chooses porn(male) or a dildo (female) instead of thier partner is healthy at all


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## TheCuriousWife

I realize there are some couples out there that enjoy porn together, and/or it doesn't negatively affect their relationship. But for every 1 of those stories you will hear 10 of how porn ruined a marriage, a person is addicted, or how it hurt feelings.

Why play with fire? :scratchhead:

My best friend recently got married and her husband struggles with porn. They have been married a month, and have already went 2 weeks without sex, despite her begging. When they do have sex he wants quickies with no foreplay, and/or complains about her taking too long, her smell, her taste.  He hasn't watched porn for months but the damage is done. He has a warped sense of reality. 

I'll admit watching people get it on is arousing, it's suppose to be. But personally, in the end watching porn would only depress me, and make me think about what I don't have. I'd be thinking, "I wish my husband would do that, I wish we had that much passion, etc." Why put that bug in your ear, why compare you spouse to others, why aren't they good enough? 

I know people say, "oh it's just for fun, I don't really think they are better than my spouse... I don't wish my spouse would act like that.... it just enhances the mood... it's variety..." Well I call bull crap. If it wasn't more arousing than you spouse, you wouldn't be watching it. 

I mean, I can see how couples can enjoy soft core porn together, like SA does. I believe couples should be able to do whatever they agree on without judgement. But lets not pretend it's something it isn't. *Porn is the act of arousing yourself by viewing someone who isn't your spouse. *Bottom line.

I heard a podcast yesterday about Dan Salvage talking about his word Monogamish. I'm just like really... No, there is no such thing as being mostly monogamous. Either you are or you aren't. He made up that word because he felt judged when he told people he wasn't monogamous. 

Couples are free to do what they please. All I'm saying is let's not put lipstick on a pig. Be honest about your actions instead of trying to downplay it. If your spouse is okay with you getting aroused by other people, then more power to you.

Back to the main question: I have enough self worth issues by myself. I do not need my husband oogling other women's bodies who I will never be able to compete with.


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## lifeistooshort

Wolf1974 said:


> I can only offer my perspective. I don't know your husband so can't say what he says or feels. But you ask why men look at porn if not for the beautiful people. Because it's stimulus. In my case I am,I suspect like most guys, very visually wired. In order to orgasm I need visual stimulus. When having sex I always have some light or candle so I can see my partner. When masterbating use porn. So looking at the people involved is no different to me than when women use a dildo or vibrator to get off. It's designed and should be a substitution not a replacement.
> 
> I don't obsess about porn actress or even have a favorites list or a file full of the specific things. Most of the men I know are more like this then obsessed with it.
> 
> I agree with Conan that you husband doesn't sound very sexually healthy. I don't think anyone who chooses porn(male) or a dildo (female) instead of thier partner is healthy at all



Interesting point, and I can appreciate you requiring visual stimulus and many women need it as well. It does beg the question though of why so many men claim to only use porn because they're hd if they need the visual stimulus to get off? Seems like a causality issue..... like many aren't as hd as they think they are but given easy access to porn they get turned on. If one is that hd why do they need all this visual? How did men get off before the easy availability of Internet porn?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

> How did men get off before the easy availability of Internet porn?


This is a question of great interest. Porn is talked about as though men NEED it desperately in order to masturbate because they are so "visual." As though instant access to 24/7 porn of every stripe had been available forever and men had never been able to masturbate without it.

Porn hasn't really impacted me, but maybe it's because I'm of a generation that had to settle for dirty magazines and the occasional video tape (remember those!) somebody sneaked from their older brother who knew a guy who was old enough to have a tiny stash of 70's and 80's tapes. And I've never been with anyone who believed he was entitled to as much porn as he could stomach regardless of what it might be doing to our relationship and sex life.


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## that.girl

TheCuriousWife said:


> When they do have sex he wants quickies with no foreplay, and/or complains about her taking too long, her smell, her taste.


My XH had a mild aversion to my taste and smell. Every guy I'd been with before him found it very arousing. 

I sometimes wondered if it was just a personal preference thing, or if it tied into the image of sex he'd built from Internet porn, which doesn't include those things. I never asked him, so I guess I'll never know.


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## michzz

Like all things media, many women let porn affect their self image. It is just the more extreme example of it.

As for ignorant people basing their idea of what sex should be on porn? There will always be ignorance.

When I was young, the Sears catalog had women modeling underwear in silly poses. Should I have expected the women in my life to pose like that?

I think life's journey is towards a better understanding of oneself and to get to a place where you don't point at others as for why you react as you do.


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## norajane

michzz said:


> Like all things media, many women let porn affect their self image. It is just the more extreme example of it.
> 
> As for ignorant people basing their idea of what sex should be on porn? There will always be ignorance.
> 
> When I was young, the Sears catalog had women modeling underwear in silly poses. Should I have expected the women in my life to pose like that?
> 
> I think life's journey is towards a better understanding of oneself and to get to a place where you don't point at others as for why you react as you do.


I think for teens who are curious about sex, don't know how the physical part really works, and know nothing about the emotional aspects of sex and much less about the mental aspects of it, a steady diet of porn is where they "learn" the first things they learn about having sex. And porn is both too much and entirely inadequate as a learning tool for young people who have zero context or experience.


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## ConanHub

Men that have any issue whatsoever impacting them sexually unless they have porn have some level of addiction.

I am recovering from porn addiction but I am true HD. I have never "needed" it to be aroused or function in any way with Mrs. Conan.

I do not think intheory or always alone have a regular or normal situation. Maybe it is more widespread than I realize.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

norajane said:


> I think for teens who are curious about sex, don't know how the physical part really works, and know nothing about the emotional aspects of sex and much less about the mental aspects of it, a steady diet of porn is where they "learn" the first things they learn about having sex. And porn is both too much and entirely inadequate as a learning tool for young people who have zero context or experience.


I agree with this. It retards sexual growth, maybe crippling it in many cases.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz

michzz said:


> Like all things media, many women let porn affect their self image. It is just the more extreme example of it.
> 
> As for ignorant people basing their idea of what sex should be on porn? There will always be ignorance.
> 
> When I was young, the Sears catalog had women modeling underwear in silly poses. Should I have expected the women in my life to pose like that?
> 
> I think life's journey is towards a better understanding of oneself and to get to a place where you don't point at others as for why you react as you do.





norajane said:


> I think for teens who are curious about sex, don't know how the physical part really works, and know nothing about the emotional aspects of sex and much less about the mental aspects of it, a steady diet of porn is where they "learn" the first things they learn about having sex. And porn is both too much and entirely inadequate as a learning tool for young people who have zero context or experience.


So young people have no other inputs or contexts about sexual information?

I would refute that. But rather than a threadjack, I was trying to answer the OP's comments.


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## that.girl

Young people have info about the biological processes of sex, but many parents don't explain much about the emotional aspects, what the opposite sex wants or enjoys, etc. and those things aren't addressed much in mainstream porn, leaving young people who don't have a solid sexual education with incomplete information. 

My XH had absolutely no clue that some women have difficulty climaxing through PIV until i told him. He had never heard of such a thing. I wouldn't have known myself how common it was if i hadn't stolen my mom's Cosmopolitan mags as a child. Nobody ever thought to tell me either.


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## norajane

michzz said:


> So young people have no other inputs or contexts about sexual information?
> 
> I would refute that. But rather than a threadjack, I was trying to answer the OP's comments.


I'm saying young people don't know what they don't know, and so don't know to seek out specific kinds of information. Porn is easy, well known and right there for the viewing any time, any where on any device.


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## michzz

michzz said:


> So young people have no other inputs or contexts about sexual information?
> 
> I would refute that. But rather than a threadjack, I was trying to answer the OP's comments.





norajane said:


> I'm saying young people don't know what they don't know, and so don't know to seek out specific kinds of information. Porn is easy, well known and right there for the viewing any time, any where on any device.


I must be wired differently because I have consumed porn, magazines, medical information, talked to actual women, etc.

Heck, they used to sell porn right on street corners in newsracks for 50 cents.

As I said before, I think ignorance will always be here. 

So basing one's self image on the ignorance of another person doesn't sound like a good strategy.


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## norajane

michzz said:


> I must be wired differently because I have consumed porn, magazines, medical information, talked to actual women, etc.
> 
> Heck, they used to sell porn right on street corners in newsracks for 50 cents.
> 
> As I said before, I think ignorance will always be here.
> 
> So basing one's self image on the ignorance of another person doesn't sound like a good strategy.


It's not a good strategy. But when it's in your face every day because your H has a special, personal relationship with porn that excludes you, it's difficult to shrug it off and say it doesn't matter. Because it DOES, because our husbands and our sexuality and sexual relationships with them DO matter.


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## Wolf1974

lifeistooshort said:


> Interesting point, and I can appreciate you requiring visual stimulus and many women need it as well. It does beg the question though of why so many men claim to only use porn because they're hd if they need the visual stimulus to get off? Seems like a causality issue..... like many aren't as hd as they think they are but given easy access to porn they get turned on. If one is that hd why do they need all this visual? How did men get off before the easy availability of Internet porn?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Magazines 
Then r rated movies that had sex scenes
Then straight up professionaly made porn movies.....my least favorite
mostly is what I used before Internet 


I don't consider myself HD. Least not by TAM terms. Sex min couple times a week. Mastrbation couple times a month tops when in a realtionship. Obviously a lot more when single.


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## Wolf1974

intheory said:


> Well thank-you for trying to be kind and helpful, Wolf.
> 
> Just one quibble. A sex toy is equivalent to a sex toy.
> 
> In other words; women using dild*es, vibrators, etc., is the equivalent of a guy using a fleshlight, blow-up doll or vibrating sleeve.
> 
> Porn use by men is equal to porn use by women.
> 
> Fwiw, women are very visual too, believe me.
> 
> There are visual images available in everyones' minds.
> 
> 
> But I do understand that porn is the preferred type of stimulus.
> 
> And, my H is in his mid-50's now. He has definitely "cooled off" sexually.
> 
> But I do believe if he, say, experienced a sudden surge in testosterone levels; he would definitely avail himself of porn.
> 
> I think porn has changed relationships and marriage.


I get that you don't see it the same way. Can't explain it any other way than that's how I view it. I see the act of materbation as a singular thing.....the stimulis provided is different and maybe unique to person to person. I know of one guy who claimed he couldn't watch any stimulis just lotion and his hand or he wouldn't get off. I would never get off that way. So in the stimiluis realm some form of visual is needed for myself. I don't view it any different than any other stimulis that another person uses including lotions, dildos, flesh lights and so on

In any case sorry your husband hurt you with that. I don't know the whole story but sounds like he was insensitive at min about it


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## Holland

lifeistooshort said:


> Interesting point, and I can appreciate you requiring visual stimulus and many women need it as well. It does beg the question though of why so many men claim to only use porn because they're hd if they need the visual stimulus to get off? Seems like a causality issue..... like many aren't as hd as they think they are but given easy access to porn they get turned on. * If one is that hd why do they need all this visual? How did men get off before the easy availability of Internet porn?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really interesting point. I know my partner does not need to watch porn to DIY, in fact these days he rarely watches it at all. As he says the more sex we have the less he wants to view porn. He really is a very HD man, in his 50's and can get it up with not much more than a suggestive word from me, he is very easy to turn on even without visual stimulation.


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## Cletus

intheory said:


> But couples don't need porn to learn about sex. Human beings have been having sex since the beginning of our race.


We've been cataloging and celebrating it the permanent medium of the time ever since we invented art, as the builders of Khajuharo, the writers of the Kama Sutra, The Joy of Sex, and Deepthroat have all proven.

Perhaps we don't technically _need_ porn to learn about sex, but we sure seem pretty interested in creating it anyway. People don't need a mate to survive either, so perhaps judging porn as unneeded is to be too strict.



> The ideal is for a new, young couple to have sex with each other as much as they like. And learn each other and explore; all on their own.


Why is that ideal? Why is sex different than say math or physics, where we leverage the findings of previous experimenters? (I get they're not exactly the same...)

The Sinclair Institute puts out a series of educational DVDs about sex that are basically porn with a lesson. They are intended to simultaneously titillate and teach. The most sexual person I was ever in a relationship with bought a copy of "The Joy of Sex" to use as a source of inspiration for our "brand new to us" sex life at the time.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening intheory
There are many man who would have found you to be enough. Many who understand that porn is not reality and no more expect you to behave like a porn star than you expect men to live the life of James Bond.

Certainly there are men who think porn is reality - they are good men to avoid. 



intheory said:


> snip
> But, looking back, would I have ever found a guy that found me to be enough; and want me more than he wanted the women in porn?
> 
> Probably not.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening all
I agree with Cletus that learning about sex is very valuable. People are not born knowing how to please their partners. In my teens I only knew the basic mechanics - my parents were far too conservative to ever discuss sex. 

Don't laugh but I grew up not even knowing that women could enjoy sex- that it wan't something that they just did for their partners. When I learned that wasn't true, I found more information - books and movies. I was smart enough to look at all the available information and decide what parts of porn were just fantasy and what were good realistic suggestions.


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## ConanHub

intheory said:


> You learn about birth control, pregnancy, human anatomy in high school health class; or from your family. Or both.
> 
> But couples don't need porn to learn about sex. Human beings have been having sex since the beginning of our race.
> 
> The ideal is for a new, young couple to have sex with each other as much as they like. And learn each other and explore; all on their own.
> 
> Their sexual relationship is their own creation. They can draw from those moments of discovery, pleasure, fun, emotion and so forth, all their life. While creating new ones. The limit between the two of them is their own imaginations. And wanting to do right by each other.
> 
> And, I believe, it should be unadulterated. No other people getting involved to dilute it down. Other people -- including the ones in porn.
> 
> Your partner and you are unique. There has never been a coupling like you before in human history; and there won't be another one like you ever again.
> 
> 
> Obviously this doesn't describe reality. It's just my thoughts when confronted with the idea that "people need porn to learn about sex".


I really like this POV and happen to be on the same page. I am.all.for buckets of education and open talking about sex though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone

I'm all in favour of real sex education. But the lessons of modern day porn are pretty harmful to women, IMHO. Basically, the message is that men don't have to do anything to please you except show up with an erection, that you don"t ever need any foreplay, warm up, lube, and there's no issue switching between anal, PIV, and oral, and essentially that you are absolutely nothing but a set of holes for guys to get off on.

Personally, porn makes me feel like I am not and can never be anything more than a piece of meat strung up like so many chickens in a butcher shop.


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## ConanHub

Porn is a meat shop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz

always_alone said:


> I'm all in favour of real sex education. But the lessons of modern day porn are pretty harmful to women, IMHO. Basically, the message is that men don't have to do anything to please you except show up with an erection, that you don"t ever need any foreplay, warm up, lube, and there's no issue switching between anal, PIV, and oral, and essentially that you are absolutely nothing but a set of holes for guys to get off on.
> 
> *Personally, porn makes me feel like I am not and can never be anything more than a piece of meat strung up like so many chickens in a butcher shop*.


Hyperbole has it's place for illustration's sake, but really?


----------



## lifeistooshort

Wolf1974 said:


> Magazines
> Then r rated movies that had sex scenes
> Then straight up professionaly made porn movies.....my least favorite
> mostly is what I used before Internet
> 
> 
> I don't consider myself HD. Least not by TAM terms. Sex min couple times a week. Mastrbation couple times a month tops when in a realtionship. Obviously a lot more when single.


Certainly some form or erotica has been around since the dawn of man, it just wan't readily available for most and certainly not available for one to pig out on day and night. I just wonder how much drive one can have if they require the visual stimulus of porn to function.....I'm not aiming this at you, it's more of a general question/thought. With all the guys here claiming to have all this drive and claiming to need porn to relieve it there's a chicken/egg situation. I know when I've been really aroused I don't need porn to function, and when I'm not at all aroused and I look at porn I like I can get aroused, but in a way it's false because it wouldn't have happened without extra stimulus. Heck, I could stay up all night with enough No-Doze pills but I couldn't turn around and claim I have all this energy and don't need sleep.


----------



## Wolf1974

lifeistooshort said:


> Certainly some form or erotica has been around since the dawn of man, it just wan't readily available for most and certainly not available for one to pig out on day and night. I just wonder how much drive one can have if they require the visual stimulus of porn to function.....I'm not aiming this at you, it's more of a general question/thought. With all the guys here claiming to have all this drive and claiming to need porn to relieve it there's a chicken/egg situation. * I know when I've been really aroused I don't need porn to function, *and when I'm not at all aroused and I look at porn I like I can get aroused, but in a way it's false because it wouldn't have happened without extra stimulus. Heck, I could stay up all night with enough No-Doze pills but I couldn't turn around and claim I have all this energy and don't need sleep.


Men and women are built different. thats just the way that it is. And I dont need porn to function. I am perfectly capapble of having a porn free life but NOT a release free life. And if I must masterbate only visual stimulis will get me over the top

Example I had a GF who had a prior issue in marriage with porn. She claimed her husband was addicted to it. So she flat out asked me when we had the intimate "lets be a realtionship talk" that i dont masterbate to porn. I told her my concern was that I had a HD, which I thought I did until I came here and she wasn't going to want to have sex enough. Her response was she wanted me to use her instead of porn and she claimed she would never turn me down for sex.

Well she was absolutely correct. In the 8 months we dated she never once turned me down. Yes times I was turned on and needed to wait until she came over but was never once a headache or im too tired excuse. She was true to her word and I was true to mine She was the only woman I knew who offered this and I was more than fine with it. I always prefer the real thing over masterbation. But thats isnt always an option


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## that.girl

So Wolf, i think it's fair to say porn had some sort of effect on your GF, if she was willing to be so accommodating rather than have you use it. 

I think there are probably many cases where a man sees it as a simple stimulus, and doesn't understand or believe how much his woman internalizes those images.


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## Cletus

that.girl said:


> So Wolf, i think it's fair to say porn had some sort of effect on your GF, if she was willing to be so accommodating rather than have you use it.
> 
> I think there are probably many cases where a man sees it as a simple stimulus, and doesn't understand or believe how much his woman internalizes those images.


I don't for a second disagree. 

I also don't for a second think that most of us have a girlfriend or wife who puts this solution into practice.


----------



## that.girl

Cletus said:


> I don't for a second disagree.
> 
> I also don't for a second think that most of us have a girlfriend or wife who puts this solution into practice.


I couldn't have kept up. When we were younger, he felt he needed to get off twice a day. I preferred 3-5x per week. That's why i let him do as he pleased, as long as he didn't turn me down in favor of Internet videos.


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## Wolf1974

that.girl said:


> So Wolf, i think it's fair to say porn had some sort of effect on your GF, if she was willing to be so accommodating rather than have you use it.
> 
> I think there are probably many cases where a man sees it as a simple stimulus, and doesn't understand or believe how much his woman internalizes those images.


Not the same. She claimed he was addicted to it. Would masterbate INSTEAD of having sex with her. That is not a sexually healthy man. I'm not that way and never have been.

And I'm not faulting women for internalizing anything. But I also expect to not be faulted for needing visual stimuli either. You're bult one way I'm built another and I don't accept that I'm wrong for the way I'm made anymore than you should.


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## Wolf1974

that.girl said:


> I couldn't have kept up. When we were younger, he felt he needed to get off twice a day. I preferred 3-5x per week. That's why i let him do as he pleased, as long as he didn't turn me down in favor of Internet videos.


Right. I think that is the balance


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## that.girl

Wolf, the second part of my statement was not directed at you specifically and I hope you didn't take it that way. Simply trying to tie back to the original question, of how porn makes women feel about themselves.


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## Wolf1974

that.girl said:


> Wolf, the second part of my statement was not directed at you specifically and I hope you didn't take it that way. Simply trying to tie back to the original question, of how porn makes women feel about themselves.


Ohh no I didn't take it as such. 

I was just explaining that we come from different angles on the topic or porn and porn use. Some more black and white than others but do think we all agree when masterbation affects your sex life it's not good or healthy.


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## neglected42

I have been with my husband since I was seventeen. When I was young, my husbands' porn magazine habit made me very self conscious. It really had a negative effect on my self esteem. I really had no reason to be insecure, I had plenty of male attention. I felt like I was being compared, and probably was to some degree. 

I work with young women now, and realize how incredibly sensitive they are about appearance. Pair that with young, inexperienced boys who may be, to some degree, comparing these girls to what they are seeing in porn, and I think we are running into problems. 

I vividly remember walking into a room when my husband and his buddies were watching a porn movie (We were in our early twenties, so he wasn't my husband yet.) The woman in the video had cellulite on her thighs. My husband was making vomiting noises. I remember feeling horrified. Was this how my husband would feel about me if I developed cellulite? Off went the lights!!

Now that I am older, my husband looking at porn does not make me self conscious anymore. I figure he is no longer an immature young kid, and is well aware that there is nothing real in what he is looking at. (I don't feel that he had a good handle on that when we were young, a lot of damage was done) 

My issue now is the type he looks at. I find it creepy. Playboy is at least a woman, her whole body. She has a head. The stuff he looks at is just about objectifying women. It is about their body parts, like that is all there is to them. Sex and body parts.....like a piece of meat. (I guess, that is mostly what the focus is....a piece of meat). Such a turn off.

So, yes, I feel that porn can make women feel bad about themselves. Especially young women who are in that stage of life where appearance is everything, and they are hypersensitive about it. I also think it can make a women feel bad about their spouse. It is definitely something that should be discussed openly, and comfort levels need to be respected.


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## ariel_angel77

Porn was horrible in my marriage. First, my ex lied to me about watching it from the beginning. He just couldn't be honest. I winded up trying it. What we did in the bedroom suddenly seemed dull compared to it. I watched it on and off my whole pregnancy then stopped so it wouldn't interfere with my sex life. I felt so dirty while watching it. I felt like it was no different from bringing another person into my marriage sexually. I still to this day have not watched porn since summer of 2013. I've had times where I have been half awake and gotten a very strong urge to watch it and almost did until I got fully awake and realized what was going on. (Not sure what that's about). 

Well, towards the end of the marriage, I found out that he was hiding porn from me and had dedicated an alternate Facebook to pages with naked women (including old women). That was so deceptive to me. That was the part that made me sick.

I'm just not the type of woman who can handle my man watching porn. When I found that Facebook page and that porn it destroyed my self esteem. I felt so ugly that my husband would rather look at a naked old woman than naked me.

In the bedroom he didn't like foreplay, didn't care about giving orgasms, and loved anal (more than regular), just like you described. He would do things I liked but his high priority was him getting pleasure and climaxing. I don't remember orgasming that much at all. I'm pretty sure this was due to porn as well.


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## RClawson

My whole outlook on porn has changed dramatically over the past couple of years. I do not believe porn is healthy in any way shape or form (just my opinion). There have been times in my life where it was about as close to an addiction as one could have. 

I watched porn because of the lack of intimacy in my relationship. It was a total release. Mainstream porn has never done anything for me. I never saw it as reality. I was always into amatuer / homemade porn with just regular people (that I could identify with).

When my LD W became a ND W I found out she had replaced me with porn. Honestly it was pretty devastating to me. I never really understood why women would get so hung up on this. Today I completely get it.


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## ConanHub

ariel_angel77 said:


> Porn was horrible in my marriage. First, my ex lied to me about watching it from the beginning. He just couldn't be honest. I winded up trying it. What we did in the bedroom suddenly seemed dull compared to it. I watched it on and off my whole pregnancy then stopped so it wouldn't interfere with my sex life. I felt so dirty while watching it. I felt like it was no different from bringing another person into my marriage sexually. I still to this day have not watched porn since summer of 2013. I've had times where I have been half awake and gotten a very strong urge to watch it and almost did until I got fully awake and realized what was going on. (Not sure what that's about).
> 
> Well, towards the end of the marriage, I found out that he was hiding porn from me and had dedicated an alternate Facebook to pages with naked women (including old women). That was so deceptive to me. That was the part that made me sick.
> 
> I'm just not the type of woman who can handle my man watching porn. When I found that Facebook page and that porn it destroyed my self esteem. I felt so ugly that my husband would rather look at a naked old woman than naked me.
> 
> In the bedroom he didn't like foreplay, didn't care about giving orgasms, and loved anal (more than regular), just like you described. He would do things I liked but his high priority was him getting pleasure and climaxing. I don't remember orgasming that much at all. I'm pretty sure this was due to porn as well.


Here is to a healthier future. Your ex sure didn't appreciate what a wonderful, sexy woman you are. His loss and I am not just trying to make you feel better. You are more willing and adventurous than many women and the next man.better be someone real who appreciates you. Don't ever settle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

I find it's not just porn. Look at women's magazines. Look at fashion mags. Look at beauty pageants. There is a plethora of women telling women they need to lose weight, have bigger breasts, have the gap, lose 20 pounds in 2 weeks, all sorts of things. They assault you at the grocery checkout, even. 

Porn just amps up the intensity by several more notches. With the internet and free porn all over the place, it's no wonder our internet-addicted kids get a skewed view of these things. 

I'm glad I grew up in the days of glossy pages and no internet.


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## Wolf1974

intheory said:


> That is so great, Wolf. You both kept your word and promise; and had lots of sex together. Yay!!!


Maybe this is a solution for those who are very anti porn and or masterbation? I was very happy with the relatioship while it lasted.....I don't know If this could be kept up for years and years though but maybe something some want to consider?


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## staarz21

My H is addicted. He fights it every day. His actions regarding porn have involved him neglecting our children, risking his job, having 2 affairs, and ignoring me sexually. Even though I stand at 5'6" 120 lbs...I still thought I needed cosmetic surgery in order to look more like the porn stars my H drools over. I have talked about these procedures on this forum before. 

I have finally got to a place where I am happy with myself (mostly), but I am at a point in my marriage where I borderline hate my husband. I struggle daily with trying to make it work with him. How could someone who said they loved me treat me like that? 

I watch porn. I like some categories and it's helpful when my H deploys - and my imagination is in stalled mode. 

But I have a huge issue with my H's porn viewing and the way he has compared me to those women. He even told me he compared me to them. We have sex daily, but most days I would be just fine without it. I don't like getting naked in front of someone who is just going to sit there and judge/compare me to the women he would RATHER be f*cking. 

I know my situation isn't typical because my H is excessive with it (like 2-6 HOURS DAILY - right now he hasn't touched it in about 4 months though). But it doesn't change the fact that everywhere we look, we are told:

If you're thin - you're skinny fat and need to be fitter
If you're over weight - you need to be thinner
If you're over the age of 24 - you're too old now
If you have stretchmarks, freckles, moles, scars, visible pores, or any other skin blemish - you're abnormal
If your boobs aren't above a C cup - you're abnormal
If your boobs are above a D cup -you're abnormal
If you have cellulite, you're gross. (come on! 90% of women have it!!!!!) 
If your teeth aren't straight - you need braces asap!

etc etc etc

We will never be perfect compared to "hollywood", porn, or any other media outlet. There will always be people who don't believe in reality. That number of people will continue to grow because people are relying more and more on electronics and the Internet.


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## doubletrouble

staarz21 said:


> Even though I stand at 5'6" 120 lbs...I still thought I needed cosmetic surgery in order to look more like the porn stars my H drools over.


At that height/weight, there's absolutely nothing wrong with your physique.


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## Holland

intheory said:


> staarz,
> 
> I echo doubletrouble's comment: at 5'6" and 120lb, you are lovely. And, you posted some pictures once of you working out, (I'm pretty sure it was you). When I saw those pictures, and paired them with what you have said about your husband; I decided that your husband was a moron. Sorry, I know he is the father of your children; and you were in love with him at one point.
> 
> Watch out for watching porn yourself . It can do strange things to a person's brain - and their expectations of sexual reality.
> 
> 
> 
> This ^^^^^. Yep.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, once again. I bolded the ones that I've personally dealt with at one time or another. Where I've had all my moles removed (disgusted my h), I now have scar tissue
> 
> *And yes, I agree, the standards are getting higher and higher.*


Maybe it is an age thing but IME this is not the case. Some of the stories here are just really sad, they are more about peoples lack of reality and sorry to say it but that goes hand in hand with a lack of intelligence. If a man cannot wrap his head around the fact that all women are different and very few are perfect then they have something missing upstairs.

No one should let others dictate what is acceptable and what is not, if you do that then you give your personal power away and that can only lead to a serious drop in self esteem.

I know full well that I am not an overly hot, perfectly formed woman but even so I have never had trouble attracting men. I would not suffer being with a man that did not love my body even with all its imperfections. 

I know my man loves the female form, he looks at other women, watches porn but it is up to me to not let that impact how I feel about myself. He worships my body and what our bodies can do together. 
I look at other men, there are plenty of men out there with much better bodies than my partners but while I enjoy looking at them it never means I want to have sex with them.

This is more about respect than the actual porn to me, I am loved and love, respected and feel sexy as hell with a man that celebrates who I am, my whole package with its flaws. 

If a man is making you feel compared, that he wants to fvck someone else then he is a loser, piss him off and find a better, more developed man.


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## ConanHub

intheory said:


> Holland,
> 
> I can't "Like" or agree with your post; because it's not been my experience. And, to me, a lot of it is wishful thinking. Albeit, wonderful wishful thinking.:smthumbup:
> 
> But, I'm very, very, glad that you are having a fulfilling, positive sexual relationship with your SO. The more we have of that in the world; the better.


Your hot to girl! Your 5'9" if I. Remember and I don't want to mess up on your weight but I remember it sounded good and healthy for your height when I read it. &#55357;&#56841;&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_

I'm commenting because of earlier posts. Screwed up and quoted the wrong one!


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## Holland

intheory said:


> Holland,
> 
> I can't "Like" or agree with your post; because it's not been my experience. And, to me, a lot of it is wishful thinking. Albeit, wonderful wishful thinking.:smthumbup:
> 
> But, I'm very, very, glad that you are having a fulfilling, positive sexual relationship with your SO. The more we have of that in the world; the better.


intheory it is standard to view the world through our own experience but it does not mean the whole world and all people operate the same way. I was with a man that was LD (emotionally fvcked up and still has not repartnered or dating after 5 years of divorce). My self esteem took a massive dive, not because of my body, my physical imperfections but because of sexual rejection. But even through that I never thought that all men were the same.

There are plenty of great men in the world, I have so many examples in my life. The ones described here in this post are not great men, they are emotionally stunted fools.


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## Jung_admirer

Lila said:


> I don't know if this answers the question of how porn affects a woman's self-image, but it does provide interesting results from recent research about the affects on the male brain.
> 
> Pornography and Relationships | Men's Health
> 
> Even though the article was presented in Menshealth, the author did an excellent job of summarizing the referenced studies. (Look them up by author for the abstracts)


Male porn use affects male physical perception; female erotica use affects female emotional perception. The article you referenced whitewashes the latter point to it own detriment. 

This emotional manipulation of erotica is equally as damaging as perceptual manipulation of porn. Fantasy is meant as a distraction, not as a guidebook to managing personal expectations.


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## doubletrouble

These perceptions can change over time as well. When W and I were first together, we watched porn together. It never did much for me, tbh. But after DDay, we haven't watched it since. *shrug*


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## WandaJ

It's non-issue for me. I do watch porn on occasion, sometimes more, sometimes less. Does not affect my image.


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## Middle of Everything

Think all porn can have very detrimental effects if you're not careful. For women and men.

With 50 shades out and the thread that is on here it got me thinking. How many women have no problem secretly lusting after Christian Grey and his billionaire hotness, but think visual porn that your average man would use is deplorable?


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## blahfridge

Interesting discussion ladies and one that really resonates with me. 

My husband had a porn addiction for years, by his own admission. I think it was at its worst when my kids were little and I wasn't aware of it until just in the past few years. I think it fueled his decision to cheat on me, which he did via a cheating website with five women. When I found the porn on the home computer by accident I was most disturbed by the constant videos of women getting creamed in their face. Just recently came across yet another slew of them when he inadvertently left his portable hard drive hooked up to the family computer. 

So, I asked my therapist about this, wondering, am I not being open minded about this obsession some men seem to have with this type of sexual behavior? Personally, I find it demeaning and the few times he tried it with me, I was firm in my refusal. I could go on and on about the problems in our marriage, yes we are separated now, but porn played a part in his behavior. 

Is it the porn's fault? I don't think so, he made his own choices and he has a very addictive personality, including a one time sex addiction. To his credit, he is finally facing this fact and has agreed to start IC. It's probably too late for us, as I can't imagine ever desiring him again. Unfortunately, sex with him is a trigger that reminds me of the cheating, the porn, and the lies. 

The porn never made me feel inadequate but it did make me feel like I had to perform some role. I wanted passionate deeply felt sex with an intimate connection, he wanted to cum in my face.


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## Holland

The facial is an interesting one. I personally find it degrading but know that many don't. My partner has never wanted to do it as he also thinks it is a degrading act. We enjoy mutual DIY and I love it when he finishes on my body. I blow him to completion but have never felt it was degrading, the opposite in fact. But yeah, the facial is a degrading act to me and to him. Just glad we are on the same page with that one.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening all
I find facials a bit degrading, but my wife thinks they are sort of funny - though its something we do very rarely. OTOH she hates given blowjobs and will only do it once a year for my birthday.

Different people like different things. Porn covers a very wide range of activities, so some if it will seem nasty to almost anyone.




Holland said:


> The facial is an interesting one. I personally find it degrading but know that many don't. My partner has never wanted to do it as he also thinks it is a degrading act. We enjoy mutual DIY and I love it when he finishes on my body. I blow him to completion but have never felt it was degrading, the opposite in fact. But yeah, the facial is a degrading act to me and to him. Just glad we are on the same page with that one.


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## lifeistooshort

My hb has never asked for a facial and I'm not down with that anyway. He does however like to spank me and get spanked himself..... that was a little new to me when we met but I'm definitely down with that now. I don't think I'd be down with a lot of porn stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21

That's the unfortunate part of it sometimes. Those of us who have had the unfortunate luck of dealing with someone who can't differentiate between reality and fantasy are expected to act and look like those porn stars. If not, then sex isn't enjoyable for the person who has a problem knowing what's real and what's fake - and certainly not enjoyable for the person that has to put on the show.


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## MountainRunner

Holland said:


> The facial is an interesting one. *I personally find it degrading*...


Same here. So you know of people who actually like it? Guys, gals, both?


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## samyeagar

MountainRunner said:


> Same here. So you know of people who actually like it? Guys, gals, both?


My wife is an interesting one with regards to this...she doesn't mind it in theory, but she has had major ear problems her whole life, and in practice, she's too concerned about it running into her ears to enjoy it. Much like Holland, my wife loves it anywhere else on her body.


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## Holland

Hey there Sam, where have you been?


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## samyeagar

Holland said:


> Hey there Sam, where have you been?


Hey Holland, my favorite opposite gender doppelganger...I was taking a break. Sometimes this place, as good as it is, starts to wear on a person, and a little self imposed exile is a good thing


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## Bam85

I don't think any part of porn is necessarily degrading. If reenacting any part of it is done with someone trusted, like a spouse, there's nothing bizarre about it. I try not to judge other people's fantasies unless I have any first-hand experience. Having said that, I find 50 Shades pretty degrading. Not so much for the nature of the sex but more so for the psychological manipulation inflicted by that dweeb, Christian.

Any way, I'm surprised no one's mentioned the movie Don Jon. I think it's a very underrated movie about the relationship men have with sex. I think that porn does just as much damage to a man as it does to a woman. It puts the man in a position of being almost unable to get into the dynamics of real sex rather than the mechanics of porn fantasies. Real, raw, passionate sex will trump any cheesy fantasy, any day. Mostly, I feel sorry for the people who have limited (if any) experience with that.


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## Cletus

Bam85 said:


> Any way, I'm surprised no one's mentioned the movie Don Jon. I think it's a very underrated movie about the relationship men have with sex. I think that porn does just as much damage to a man as it does to a woman. It puts the man in a position of being almost unable to get into the dynamics of real sex rather than the mechanics of porn fantasies. Real, raw, passionate sex will trump any cheesy fantasy, any day. Mostly, I feel sorry for the people who have limited (if any) experience with that.


Don Jon was as accurate a portrayal of the average man's relationship to porn that 50 Shades was for the BDSM community.


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## Cletus

I cannot imagine a faster path to divorce in my marriage.


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## Holland

Personal said:


> Facials are frequent and well received in my marriage (liquids are fine, my wife's ick factor is almost non-existent), spanking on the other hand is verboten (my wife doesn't enjoy anything that smarts!) .


Verboten, now there is a word that is not used enough.

Spanking is all good here, we both like a little bit of pain. 

BUT and a big TMI warning here........ he likes me to lightly bite his **** during a BJ. Still freaks me out a little bit in case I hurt him.


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## *LittleDeer*

I don't watch porn. I don't read glossy women's magazines and I don't watch a lot of mainstream television (although a little more of this then other things). I find that the way women are portrayed in porn and the media is very damaging to females self esteem and gives men a false representation of women. 

I also don't want a partner who watches porn. If it's something he can't live without then we are not suited. There are so many reasons for why, one is that I do think men compare even if they won't admit or realise it- it happens subconsciously. However that's a minor reason. Porn IMO is just not healthy.


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## WandaJ

intheory said:


> Here,on TAM, I've heard people say it's not about the people, it's about the sex act. Which I don't understand; the sex acts are people. That's what a sex act is!!
> 
> .


I agree with your husband here. For me porn is not about people, but the sexual act they are involved in. I think this is a problem for many women, that they do see it as about people, and feel rejected by their men watching porn. 

Your husband is a real jerk. Sure there are maybe millions like him, but even more millions who are not like him.


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## samyeagar

WandaJ said:


> I agree with your husband here. For me porn is not about people, but the sexual act they are involved in. I think this is a problem for many women, that they do see it as about people, and feel rejected by their men watching porn.
> 
> Your husband is a real jerk. Sure there are maybe millions like him, but even more millions who are not like him.


My wife enjoys a bit of porn, and it really turns her on. Like you, it's about the act and not the people specifically, in an almost voyeuristic sort of way.


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## WandaJ

There are many voices here blaming porn for men not knowing anything about women's sexuality. That's not completely true. When did men knew much about women's sexuality, and vice verse? Not until 1960 we have started talking about those things, before everybody was on their own. There always be people who will not put effort into understanding their partner. and there always be people who will look, search, and try to do their best to make their partners happy. Some of us have higher EQ, some lack it completely. 

I understand that husband comparing his wife to porn stars will affect her self image badly. But this is not porn's fault. It is their men lacking empathy, and being immature. 

On the other side - women idea of relationship and sex is too often based on Hollywood version, or sentimental books, and men have a hard time to live up to it too. 

It all comes down to realizing what is fantasy, what is real. Porn movies are just that - movies, and if someone does not realize it, whose fault really is it?


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## doubletrouble

I can't compete with romance novels.


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## samyeagar

doubletrouble said:


> I can't compete with romance novels.


...or the teams of screen writers for romantic comedies


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## tacoma

*LittleDeer* said:


> I don't watch porn. I don't read glossy women's magazines and I don't watch a lot of mainstream television (although a little more of this then other things). *I find that the way women are portrayed in porn and the media is very damaging to females self esteem *and gives men a false representation of women.


I understand and sympathize but I have a question.

Why don't men have this problem?

In todays mainstream porn the men aren't fat ugly bastards.
They're chiselled gods, with astoundingly huge hard penises whose stamina is infinite.
Few men can compare to the studs in mainstream porn yet you almost never hear a man compare themselves with them negatively.

Considering the plethora of men who have pretty serious insecurities about their penis size you'd think you'd hear men complaining at least about that impossible comparison but you don't.

In fact when I'm choosing porn for my wife and I to watch together the man is my main focus, I try to find actors who fit my wifes preferences.
I purposely search for men who are bigger, stronger, better looking than I in order to strengthen the fantasy for her.

All things being equal men in porn are just as unrealistic as women in porn yet this seems to be a non issue with the vast majority of (nearly all) men yet there is a large percentage (I'd say well over half) of women who have some kind of issue with it.

Why?


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## samyeagar

tacoma said:


> I understand and sympathize but I have a question.
> 
> Why don't men have this problem?
> 
> In todays mainstram porn the men aren't fat ugly bastards.
> They're chiselled gods, with astoundingly huge hard penises whose stamina is infinite.
> Few men can compare to the studs in mainstream porn yet you almost never hear a man compare themselves with them negatively.
> 
> Considering the plethora of men who have pretty serious insecurities about their penis size you'd think you'd hear men complaining at least about that impossible comparison but you don't.
> 
> In fact when I'm choosing porn for my wife and I to watch together the man is my main focus, I try to find actors who fit my wifes preferences.
> I purposely search for men who are bigger, stronger, better looking than I in order to strengthen the fantasy for her.
> 
> All things being equal men in porn are just as unrealistic as women in porn yet this seems to be a non issue with the vast majority of (nearly all) men yet there is a large percentage (I'd say well over half) of women who have some kind of issue with it.
> 
> *Why*?


At least in part because of the common wisdom "women aren't visual creatures" falsehood.


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## doubletrouble

Is it a romantic comedy if, when the guy drops his pants, she laughs?


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## karma*girl

Tacoma- I was thinking the same thing.

I believe part of it, (once I sit and really think about it,) has to do with the fact that some, maybe most, women are more afraid than men are, of losing their youth, beauty and then possibly their desirability/allure. 
There is that unfair perceived dynamic where it is said that as women age, they lose attractiveness, but men are considered more sophisticated and mature, therefore more attractive. Of course we know this isn't always the case, but in general it may be. 

Some women worry that if their man is exposed to 'better quality women,' he will eventually feel like he got the short end of the stick..stuck in the reality of sex with one woman who is nowhere near as flawless/adventurous as those on screen. 
That's a hopeless/frightening feeling for a woman and probably the man.

Women's bodies, in general, might change drastically throughout life, with pregnancies, nursing, menopause, etc..which makes it even harder to accept when our men are visually affirming that 'yep, these other women are still hot, so at least I have that to look at.'
(Unless a man gains tons of weight, he doesn't change as quickly and as drastically as women might. )

There's an absolute barrage of available flesh through Internet porn now and most of it is female focused. It's no surprise that women feel the pressure to 'compete' with what their men are watching. 

Sex with a man who also enjoys porn, in my experience can feel less intimate, less special, less bonding. It makes us wonder how much you wish we looked like the girl you just watched or why you would even want to get intimate with us when you have a million others, better looking at that, at your fingertips. 
(I'm not saying this is how I feel now, or how all other women feel, but these things go through our heads at times.) 

We know how important our looks are to our significant others and it can become a serious competition between ourselves and other attractive females. Some say that women don't place as much importance on the looks aspect of their mate. That might be true for some. But we definitely care!

I can say however, that when I told my husband (long ago) that I occasionally watched porn myself, he was not excited. 
I figured that if he watched, he thought it was acceptable in our marriage. 
Interesting double-standard. Go figure.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening all, 
It seems that often men and women exhibit jealousy differently - no idea why. Men do not in general seem to feel "threatened" by porn in the way that some women do.

Is it possible that (on average) men pay more attention to the sex acts and women more to the people engaging in those acts?

It would never occur to me to be jealous of the apparently super-human abilities of male porn stars. OTOH I'm bored by most standard porn, so I don't have a lot of reaction to it at all.


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