# Man, 54, thinking of divorce



## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

My wife and I have been married 18 years and have one daughter of our own, 17, and two older children, 23 and 25, from my wife's first marriage that ended in her first husband's death by drowning. We met two years after that and married a year later. By both our admissions it has not been a happy marriage, our kids have had to listen to all the fighting. In the last three years, my daughters have had to listen to horrible name calling directed toward me by my wife. I basically wake up every day hearing what a POS I am and at night I hear the same thing. Took it for years and years, overlooking, saying that everyone has good and bad traits,etc. This past summer it got physical. She would physically attack me and leave bruises on my arms. The kids see this and make comments to me. I was all in before the summer, after the summer, I am completely emotionally removed. Our family doctor saw the bruises and jokingly asked if I made my wife mad and did my wife do that. I said yes, she in fact did. So I told him the whole story for the purposes of documentation. My 25 year old son went and told his grandparents (my wifes first husband's parents) what was going on in the house, and they approached me, told me what was told to them and asked if it was true. I said yes. They made me promise to see an attorney, which I did. 

I am considering leaving because I have come to the conclusion I would rather be alone than live with that everyday. I don't have another girlfriend or lover. I have never even considered it. I am a medical professional that owns his own medical practice, work hard, have taken care of us well. Don't drink excessively, smoke or gamble or have other vices. I stay home most of the time and enjoy time with my daughters. I feel that the damage my daughters have sustained and the verbal abuse they have had to listen to because I was trying to be understanding is a lot. 

I am frustrated, and emotionally gone. Thru the years my wife has often said how bad she wants a divorce...it started very early in the marriage. This past summer it reached an all time peak to the point where I decided to go there emotionally as well, and accept the fact we were going to divorce. I asked her to go to counseling with me. I suggested John Gottmans marriage books and materials. She said she was not interested. So now that I say I am done, finished and am not going to live the rest of my life like this, now all the sudden she wants to work on it. Problem is...I am over the cliff...and I can't go back. 

Who else has been here, and what advice might anyone have? I got nuthin' left...and would like some peace.

I don't want to leave to be with someone else, as I know the slim to none chance that ever works out. I am looking to regroup and get back to somewhat of the person I was before all the verbal abuse started. Ideas?


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## nandosbella (Jul 6, 2012)

just go... i dont think you'll find anyone here who would say that you didnt give it your best. sometimes it really is just too little too late. you've been in a marriage where you allowed your wife to be selfish for 18 years. it's your turn. you're allowed to be happy. it's your life.. and you only get one. 

take the rest of your life for YOU.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Divorce. There is never, NEVER, an excuse for physical violence by either spouse. Your wife is an abuser...a verbal, emotional, and physical abuser and you should not stand for it any longer. 

Dump this woman and find a gentle woman who will love and respect you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dumpedandhappy (Aug 17, 2012)

At 54, you have to plan carefully these latter years of one's life.
It's not that your old per se, just that opputunity in life becomes constrained by aging and the quality years left to you. 
That is why at your fifth decade I think that you must start to think of yourself, save what you can, find as "Bandit.45" says,"a gentle woman".
Abuse is serious. And I personally would not accept it unless you actually like it. To each their own! 
Divorce was in fact made for your situation.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Redwing, welcome to the TAM forum. The behaviors you describe -- the verbal/physical abuse, temper tantrums, controlling behavior, and black-white thinking -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Indeed, a 1993 Canadian study concludes that nearly all spouse batterers have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of it at Romeo's Bleeding - When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong -- Health & Wellness -- Sott.net.

I therefore suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you've been dealing with for 18 years. I say "by yourself" because, when a therapist is also seeing the BPDer spouse, the therapist usually will not disclose the name of the disorder to her (much less tell her H) in order to protect the BPDer. I explain why therapists commonly withhold that information at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909.

I also suggest, while you are waiting for an appointment, you check out my brief description of BPD traits in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Redwing.


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## grenville (Sep 21, 2011)

I've never been through anything like that and I can't imagine what it must be like to live with a violent and abusive partner. The one - and only - upside I can think of to your situation is that you are free to leave without guilt or bad conscience. No-one, aside for a few religious extremists, will criticise you for walking away from that.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

There is a whole long story behind this and I can shed details as I go. More info...our medical practice used to be (before we moved) was in a smaller rural town. We discovered our daughter had ADD and schools were not the best as they offered no help, so we decided to put our kids in a christian school in the next town over. That worked out well as she was in the third grade. Things went well until she was in the 6th grade, which one of the older male teachers was kind of a demanding teacher. So demanding of her, that we pulled her out mid year. Our older son did very well with this teacher. Fast forward to our daughters senior year and some behavioral issues were starting to come out...and then it all came out...she told us during a huge confrontation that her sixth grade teacher had raped her. So...longer story made even shorter...the Michigan State Police got involved, investigated, found another 25 or so victims and the county prosecutor refused to prosecute even though we asked to. The whole thing was covered up and buried because of a few influential people who stood a lot to lose if the school was sued. FBI called in...sorry...no federal crimes...contacted the state attorney general...sorry, that is a county issue...take it up with the prosectuor. 

All during this time, my wife was blaming me because it was our business that had kept us in the area. Basically, she said the whole thing was my fault. 

This was in 2008. So that is another factor that is driving the anger.


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## hope4family (Sep 5, 2012)

redwing_10 said:


> There is a whole long story behind this and I can shed details as I go. More info...our medical practice used to be (before we moved) was in a smaller rural town. We discovered our daughter had ADD and schools were not the best as they offered no help, so we decided to put our kids in a christian school in the next town over. That worked out well as she was in the third grade. Things went well until she was in the 6th grade, which one of the older male teachers was kind of a demanding teacher. So demanding of her, that we pulled her out mid year. Our older son did very well with this teacher. Fast forward to our daughters senior year and some behavioral issues were starting to come out...and then it all came out...she told us during a huge confrontation that her sixth grade teacher had raped her. So...longer story made even shorter...the Michigan State Police got involved, investigated, found another 25 or so victims and the county prosecutor refused to prosecute even though we asked to. The whole thing was covered up and buried because of a few influential people who stood a lot to lose if the school was sued. FBI called in...sorry...no federal crimes...contacted the state attorney general...sorry, that is a county issue...take it up with the prosectuor.
> 
> All during this time, my wife was blaming me because it was our business that had kept us in the area. Basically, she said the whole thing was my fault.
> 
> This was in 2008. So that is another factor that is driving the anger.


I am so sorry this happened to your daughter. Know that it wasn't your fault. To me you are guilty of being the bread winner, and refusing to move. You put your child in the safest place you could with an effort to succeed. Thats not your fault. 

Again, I am so sorry for what you and your daughter has gone through. Knowing what these events do to children and how it affects them years down the road this is unforgivable that this person did that. 

Wow, i'm angry. I'd appeal to your state governor and run to every single news station possible. Burn that whole town to the ground if you must. That man needs to be in prison.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

I did contact the local investigative reporter, who obtained a copy of the Michigan State Police report. The details were all there, it is just that all the names had been whited out, so the reported had nothing to go on. Even the school name had been whited out. All pertinant information regarding the people involved were whited out.

This whole process took about 3 years, and we felt totally discounted, with no justice served. The man is still teaching at the school...he is in his late 60's now...hard to believe someone can get away with that for this long without being caught. Makes me wonder how many other cases are covered up nationwide.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

I have a daughter, and I can't begin to understand how painful that was, and is. I believe in Karma, and hopefully that POS "teacher" gets his share, and soon.

On your wife...I'm generally pro-marriage, but I think you need to work on your exit strategy, and then divorce her. Your marriage died many years ago.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Do you feel that you want to try MC? If you could handle it, maybe do 6 months of MC and then decide.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

What is MC?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

redwing_10 said:


> What is MC?


Redwing, "MC" refers to marriage counseling. Yet, if your W has strong traits of BPD, marriage counseling likely will be a total waste of time, IME. That's why I suggested two weeks ago (post #5 above) that you first see a psychologist for IC (independent counseling) to obtain a professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. MCs are not trained to make such an assessment. 

If you learn that she does NOT have BPD or another mental disorder -- and that your issue is a lack of communication skills -- it may be prudent at that point to see a MC because MCs know how to teach such skills. The way you are describing her issues, however, her issues seem to go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. Blaming you for the action of a child abuser, for example, goes well beyond a lack of communication skills.


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

Marraige Counceling.

Your story is heartbreaking. 

You need to start thinking of you. Take the advice here


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## devotion (Oct 8, 2012)

I don't know if you need 6 months of MC but if is saying she doesn't want divorce then maybe give it a shot. I found out after just 2 sessions of MC that my wife had no interest in reconciliation and after a couple more days of struggling with that notion I've been able to accept it. MC might validate your own 'dead' inside feelings that you don't want reconciliation, and then you know you gave it a shot but its too late*.

* Only on TV is it 'never' too late. In reality, it can be too late for the marriage. 

I wish you good luck and commend you for at least considering the relationship even despite the abuse you received (and did not deserve). Also sorry about what your daughter and family went through.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

So..I am just a bit angry...She has been saying divorce for a long time...and then, given the events of this past summer...I decided to go along with the idea of divorce mentally...getting my head in that place. So, I did. I had tried to get her to consider counseling, etc. to no avail. So now, I am in the place where I have emotionally disconncected from her. I don't dislike my wife, not angry with her. So I am now assuming that divorce is a forgone conclusion. Now, she changes and says she wants to work on it. But here is the problem...emotionally, I am checked out and ready to move on. Not to another relationship or anything, but just for this to be over, and I can't drum up any of the feelings I had before try as I might. I would rather do things by myself than togather. I sleep on the couch now, which is fine with me because I don't want to send mixed messages. Is this something that will ever repair itself? Honestly, I have no bad feelings...I just don't have those feelings that a husband should have for his wife. The physical abuse events of the past summer sent me over the top. I thought all the time that I had to stay, but I realized I didn't have to stay and take the abuse. She is saying it is retro active PTSD from the assaults our daughter took, my counselor said it was probably not the case, that really it might be using the PTSD as an excuse to cover bad behavior. So anyway, my wife bought some video marriage system now called Strong Marraige Now...wanted me to watch the videos. So I watched them. The first one said to spend at least 8 hours a week togather...I dont' even want to spend 8 minutes togather. Not becasue I am mad, but because I have checked out emotionally. I don't think I'll ever see her the same. If I do stay, we will have totally separate lives. Suggestions? Ideas?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

redwing_10 said:


> If I do stay, we will have totally separate lives. Suggestions? Ideas?


Redwing, as Bandit advised four weeks ago, I suggest you "Dump this woman." Consider yourself lucky that you haven't yet drowned -- the sad fate of her first husband.


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm in a similar boat. I'm completely checked out emotionally and understand what you feel. My husband is on his better behavior the past week or so. I think he sees that I'm not crying and getting upset when he calls me names. I just walk away and it confirms what needs to be done. But the rants and name calling still come out and are STILL there. He may be trying harder but he's STILL an abuser. I'm tired and just want OUT! 

It's okay to want more for yourself. You recognize that - 
so start protecting yourself financially and emotionally - 

Get into some individual counceling. It does help you sort through emotions and will lead you to a different way of thinking.


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## Michie (Aug 26, 2012)

The longer you stay, you are just giving her false hope that all will be well and that you are "just mad", and that would
be cruel to her and you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> The first one said to spend at least 8 hours a week togather...I dont' even want to spend 8 minutes togather. Not becasue I am mad, but because I have checked out emotionally. I don't think I'll ever see her the same. If I do stay, we will have totally separate lives. *Suggestions? Ideas?*


Yeah...get the hell out! Just because SHE would like you two to still be married doesn't mean YOU have to stay married. Just because SHE is ready to "really give it a try now" or WHATEVER doesn't mean YOU have to give it a try, or another try, or anything else.

SHE doesn't get to unilaterally decide that you two are going to stay together. SHE doesn't get to unilaterally decide that you two are going to work on your marriage. What SHE wants doesn't mean squat. SHE lost the privelege of having any further input into YOUR life when she started hitting you. End of discussion.

It takes TWO to make a marriage work, and YOU don't want to make it work. So IT'S OVER...whether she LIKES IT OR NOT!

Give YOURSELF permission to live the life that YOU want. The life that you feel is BEST FOR YOU and for your children. Staying in this marriage will just teach them to put up with abuse in their own relationships. Show them that it is OKAY to admit you made a mistake (marrying or staying married to your wife), rectify it, learn from it, and move on. THOSE are IMPORTANT LESSONS for them to see you modelling! Abuse is NEVER OKAY; make sure they TRULY "GET" that!

Good luck!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Redwing, why don't you go to individual counseling without her. You have been dealing with so much, for so long. At this point, I would suggest that you forget what the W says about working on the marriage. Whay she says needs to stop controlling what you do. Take control of your life, and your emotions, and your children. Then, when you are ready, you can make the big decisions like whether you want to stay in the marriage, separate, divorce, whatever. I detached from my STBXH due to abuse and neglect, but waited too long to decide to divorce.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

She refuses all counseling by saying I am the one that should go because all the problems are mine. There were a few times I went, and told my counselor what my wife said my problems were. He listened, kinda shook his head and chuckled and said... "Yeah..." and then we talked from there. The conclusion being trying to point out the faults of your spouse is the fastest way to get into therapy... one finger pointing foward, three pointing back...


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

redwing_10 said:


> She refuses all counseling by saying I am the one that should go because all the problems are mine. There were a few times I went, and told my counselor what my wife said my problems were. He listened, kinda shook his head and chuckled and said... "Yeah..." and then we talked from there. The conclusion being trying to point out the faults of your spouse is the fastest way to get into therapy... one finger pointing foward, three pointing back...


What's your plan at this point?


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Sadly, and I do mean that.... our daughter turns 18 in June, I am thinking of leaving after. In retrospect, I should have left last fall after the physical assaults but didn't want to upset my daughters senior year. Maybe I should have left then, because things haven't gotten better.. no more physical assualts... just verbal.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

redwing_10 said:


> Sadly, and I do mean that.... our daughter turns 18 in June, I am thinking of leaving after. In retrospect, I should have left last fall after the physical assaults but didn't want to upset my daughters senior year. Maybe I should have left then, because things haven't gotten better.. no more physical assualts... just verbal.


A bad situation, but I certainly won't fault your plans or reasoning. Are you leaning towards separation or divorce?


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

I havn't thought that far ahead, I would be open to separation, and that is what the counselor suggested, she won't have it. She says that is not how problems are solved. I said sometimes people need some distance to look at thier own behavior and how they contributed to the breakdown. She said, no way, no separation, only divorce.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

If I were you, I'd consult a lawyer, then seperate. If she wants a divorce, and you're still not on board with that path, let her file and do the work. You can't stop her from pursuing a divorce, of course, but you don't have to take the lead in it if that's not where your heart is.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

That is a good idea, I hadn't thought of doing it that way. That sounds like the most doable option, and still leave the door open for reconciliation.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Dude. Stop being a doormat.

No, really, stop it.

Your dau graduates in June. File the next day.


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