# How much did length of affair determine decision making?



## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

First off, I want to thank everyone here. I've been lurking for a few months and the advice given is gold. I wish I had known about this place before I caught my husband. I did everything wrong. I didn't gather the evidence but confronted right away. Of course he deleted everything immediately. I guess I've been 'lucky' in that he has been willing since then to answering all questions. It was almost like therapy for him, I think. Like some big weight lifted off his shoulders....and onto mine. 

Anyway, I've been struggling with the length of his affair. I don't even know what to call it. EA? It was an online affair, and he still maintains no physical contact was made. They did exchange nude pictures and they when I read the texts, they were making plans to meet with the possibility of sex. She also wrote that she was falling in love with him.

How long were they 'friends'? Off and on for five years. I have trouble wrapping my head around that. For some reason, I feel that it would be easier if it had been short term. It would have been even better if he had told me himself. If it weren't for that fateful day, I'd still be in the dark. 

But who knows if I really would feel better if it had been different? Infidelity is infidelity, right? So now, I feel stuck. We can't afford to live apart right now. I still care about him as the father of my kids, but I don't know if the marriage can be saved. I'm just so tired. And it's only been 3 months.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

How long have you been married?

How did you catch him?

Are you sure that there is no contact between them?


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## jaded0731 (Mar 23, 2013)

now_awake said:


> How long were they 'friends'? Off and on for five years. I have trouble wrapping my head around that. For some reason, I feel that it would be easier if it had been short term. It would have been even better if he had told me himself. If it weren't for that fateful day, I'd still be in the dark.
> 
> But who knows if I really would feel better if it had been different? Infidelity is infidelity, right? .


I think the length of the affair absolutely makes a difference.

My WH's online/phone affair (included EA, pics, sexting, phone sex) lasted a little over 2 years. I am almost 6 months out from D-day and it is still extremely difficult for me (especially because WH refuses to do any heavy lifting in our so-called "R", but that is another thread).

For me, it speaks to character. I get outraged when my WH says it was a "2 year mistake". No, it was a series of consistent bad choices over a long period of time. In my view, he was consistenly living a double life and disrespecting me and our marriage for a long period of time, with no plans to stop. 

5 years is an awful long time to be selfish and disrespectful to the woman you married and pledged your faithfulness to.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Look...you're still fresh to the horrific feeling of infidelity right now. You do NOT need to make any big decisions, especially ones concerning family and marriage. Right now, it is about taking care of YOU.

First, as alte Dame asked, are you 100% positive there is no contact between them now? I mean, 5 years of an EA is a long time. I understand because my wife had a 5 year long PA. What proximity to you did she live? I mean, I find it hard to believe it went on for that long and they never met up. Then again, people do strange things - like have affairs such as this.

You're right...infidelity is infidelity no matter what. The thing your thread title asks is did length of time determine decision making? For me, no. The determining factor was if Regret, my wife's handle here, was truly remorseful for what she had done. Did she do the heavy lifting required after such a stupid and idiotic betrayal? From my point of view, yes...she did. That is the only way I was able to even begin to truly think we could reconcile.

I admit that at the 5 month mark when I got the last of the trickle truth, I almost walked. It was tough. The trickle truthing/concealing was worse than the offense, IMO.

Now, listen closely...when you say you "can't afford to live apart right now"...do not EVER take that as a way out. You CAN leave if you choose to. Period. Things do work out and they CAN work out for YOU.

It also seems that you are tired because you are doing the heavy lifting - ie., the weight taken off his shoulders and onto you. That happens when the offending spouse isn't doing the work they should to answer your questions to your satisfaction.

How does he react when you ask him about the affair?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

jaded0731 said:


> 5 years is an awful long time to be selfish and disrespectful to the woman you married and pledged your faithfulness to.


I agree that this is an extremely difficult mental hurdle to get over when working on reconciliation.

Almost insurmountable odds it feels at times.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

Next month with be our 8th anniversary. I caught him when I opened his skype. He forgot to erase the chat. Maybe he never bothered to erase them, since I never snooped on him before. Not sure what compelled me to open it up that day. 
No, I don't know for sure they're not in contact. He panicked after I confronted him (by email) and says he sent her a no contact email. He's been open with his email since, but I don't know if there are secret emails. 
He also disclosed his porn and chat addiction. He has joined SAA, and seems sincere, but how am I supposed to know? I don't even trust myself any more, since I was blind sided by this.
At home, he stays away from computers now and no longer has a phone.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

now_awake said:


> but how am I supposed to know? I don't even trust myself any more, since I was blind sided by this.


Another very difficult part that I fully understand. 

YOU caught him. He didn't come clean to you. YOU had to discover this secretive and dirty side of your husband, much like when I found the hotel receipt on her email just cuz I used her computer when mine was turned off that night. Total coincidence.

I have to say that a keylogger program that he is unaware of is going to be part of your healing if you choose to reconcile. It's for YOUR comfort and YOUR peace of mind. It has nothing to do with "snooping". Which, by the way, you're not "snooping". You're protecting your f'ng marriage and most importantly, YOUR sanity.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Look...you're still fresh to the horrific feeling of infidelity right now. You do NOT need to make any big decisions, especially ones concerning family and marriage. Right now, it is about taking care of YOU.
> 
> First, as alte Dame asked, are you 100% positive there is no contact between them now? I mean, 5 years of an EA is a long time. I understand because my wife had a 5 year long PA. What proximity to you did she live? I mean, I find it hard to believe it went on for that long and they never met up. Then again, people do strange things - like have affairs such as this.
> 
> ...


I know it feels like an excuse, but I've tried to see the alternatives and they are all awful. Right now I'm a stay at home mom. Before I can get back into school, I need to pay off the rest of my last loan. I can get some crappy retail job and live in squander or move out of the city to my parents and make my kids miserable. They love their dad. I have moments of feeling free and seeing that I can act for myself, but then I fall back into this deep hole of feeling stuck. I'm terrified of making a mistake. Deep down I know I'm not stuck, I know this, and yet I let myself feel it and be defined by it. I'm not sure if it's because I'm so new to this. I keep going back to the idea that I don't need to make a decision right now. It feels uncomfortable as hell though.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

jaded0731 said:


> I think the length of the affair absolutely makes a difference.
> 
> My WH's online/phone affair (included EA, pics, sexting, phone sex) lasted a little over 2 years. I am almost 6 months out from D-day and it is still extremely difficult for me (especially because WH refuses to do any heavy lifting in our so-called "R", but that is another thread).
> 
> ...


It is a long time isn't it? Sorry you're here too.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Another very difficult part that I fully understand.
> 
> YOU caught him. He didn't come clean to you. YOU had to discover this secretive and dirty side of your husband, much like when I found the hotel receipt on her email just cuz I used her computer when mine was turned off that night. Total coincidence.
> 
> I have to say that a keylogger program that he is unaware of is going to be part of your healing if you choose to reconcile. It's for YOUR comfort and YOUR peace of mind. It has nothing to do with "snooping". Which, by the way, you're not "snooping". You're protecting your f'ng marriage and most importantly, YOUR sanity.


My husband is a computer programmer. I don't think I'd be able to put it on without him finding it. I'm sure he's also on high alert! I'm not sure if there are alternatives.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

I forgot to answer about how he reacts when I ask about the affair: He's always forthcoming. Never angry and answers all questions. It only took about 3 days for me to see what I think is true remorse. His angry passive aggressive side hasn't shown up since then. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it hasn't happened yet. In fact, he's much more into his own healing right now, which I understand since he also has to deal with his addictions (he has a few!). But he always asks if I need to talk. He always drops everything if I do.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Yeah, NA...having a spouse who's computer literate like that will be impossible to check up on. Hell, it's why he's most likely been able to cover a lot of his tracks.

Don't be rushed to make a decision. Yeah, you might hear from some who say "Damn the torpedos and get out now regardless". Well, they aren't in your house or your family. Do what you need for you and your children right now. Just don't let this get rug swept if you stay. And never stay just for the children. They will know. They will sense. They need to see Mom and Dad love each other. I have learned this the hard way both as a child and now as a Father.

Again, though - how does he react to you when you need to ask questions about the affair? Is he supportive of you? Does he truly understand the sh-t storm you were thrown into because of his actions?


EDIT: Just saw your answers. That is good that he seems to be working for you and with you. I suggest that in addition to his SAA that both he and you should seek proper individual counseling and marriage counseling.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

I came back to answer in the post above yours  Thanks for all your advice, I really appreciate it!


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I wish you luck and peace, NA. Let us know how things are progressing and there are way more people than me who will come on to offer suggestions. They're just probably all eating lunch!


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

Lunch is important! 

Tonight we have MC. We only went once before. I told him I wouldn't even consider R without him first dealing with his addictions. Since he's doing that, I agreed to go. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Good. Make sure that your MC does NOT try to push you to "moving on" too quickly. I say that because our first MC was all over my a$$ saying that I was holding onto too much anger. Yeah, it was TWO WEEKS after Dday!! Of course I had anger. She also told my wife in an individual session that if I continued to ask questions she should threaten to walk out on me.

Yeah...make sure your MC is there for the marriage, but also understands the full impact that infidelity has on the betrayed spouse.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Length of time played a big part in my bitterness. His affair was somewhere around 6 months. 

It was all the lies (hypocrite I know) that he told me during that time. He took me on a special anniversary trip and acted like a jerk the entire time. I hated the vacation and to this day never wanna go back.. Come to find out he was a jerk because he was warring with himself on whether he was gonna stay with me or run off with his online love.. And he loved her.. 

It was all the little things that he did, the small lies, the fact that he create triggers for me that I use to enjoy but now hate because of my bitterness. 

I did forgive him (well maybe not) but it never goes away. A part of me will always remember what he did and that he failed to mention he loved someone else for 6 months.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Good. Make sure that your MC does NOT try to push you to "moving on" too quickly. I say that because our first MC was all over my a$$ saying that I was holding onto too much anger. Yeah, it was TWO WEEKS after Dday!! Of course I had anger. She also told my wife in an individual session that if I continued to ask questions she should threaten to walk out on me.
> 
> Yeah...make sure your MC is there for the marriage, but also understands the full impact that infidelity has on the betrayed spouse.



A bad MC can be worse than talking to no one at all....

I feel a BS should be able to ask anything they want as often as they want.. After the initial DDay my husband told me some truth then I only got pieces through the MC.. After the DDay he'd et pisse if I ever wanted to discuss it. We'd already hashed it out.. I was just dwelling.. I wasn't trying hard enough to reconcile... I dwell to this day on what made him seek out this OW.. But clearly I was too nice.. Gave him everything he wanted and wasn't enough of a challenge.. 

It's weird but being cheated on changes the BS in a way that they no longer have the ability to be the same person. I got cheated on and became bitter, selfish and pessimistic.. I use to be giving, understanding and a naive optimistic..


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

It's the hardest mental obstacle I've had to deal with so far.. length of the affair.. 5 years.. so much time. I'm in R because of what she's doing to help me heal now.. She's moving heaven and earth as someone else described it. Otherwise, that'd probably be the nail in the coffin.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Good. Make sure that your MC does NOT try to push you to "moving on" too quickly. I say that because our first MC was all over my a$$ saying that I was holding onto too much anger. Yeah, it was TWO WEEKS after Dday!! Of course I had anger. She also told my wife in an individual session that if I continued to ask questions she should threaten to walk out on me.
> 
> Yeah...make sure your MC is there for the marriage, but also understands the full impact that infidelity has on the betrayed spouse.


I'm not even an MC and I can tell you that the correct answer is 'of course you're angry, you have every right to be angry'... Glad to hear they are no longer your MC.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

Our MC seems good so far! When I told him how I felt, he said "well of course, nothing's the same any more" and he made it clear that it takes at least 2 years of very hard work to even begin to get through this. During my IC with him, I told him I was sure it was over (most of the time I still feel that way), and we spent the rest of the hour talking about me and how I can have my own life. So, we'll see what he says tonight!


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

I also forgot to add in my original post that he also confessed to contacting and even setting up a date with a prostitute two years ago. Again, he claims he backed out, that he's been too afraid to act out in RL (and always kept it 'safe' online). Even if that's true, it was clearly headed towards acting out in RL


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Harrison Ford in the movie Random Hearts upon discovering that his wife and Kristen Scott's husband were having a long term affair..

“I try to go back…in my head. What’s the last thing you remember about you and your husband that you know is true. I gotta find out how far back I have to go to do that." 

That quote stuck with me because you don't trust anything about your partner anymore. You try to find the line that separates what you know was your authentic life together and when the deception started.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

NOw- read my threads, my computer tech spouse also had a online EA......as a wise poster here once described, online affairs can seem like a video game, non threatening and bolster their confidence in ways they never would if conducted in person. 

My spouse also poked around Adult Friend site..... another discovery.....again would they have gone through with it even if they claim they were just curious?? Will we ever know unless we set up dateline undercover busts.  

We can't truly know what their intentions were but at the very least, we know they were acting out, exploring and testing the waters. 

I keep this quote in mind, "you are only as faithful as your opportunities"


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

jaded0731 said:


> For me, it speaks to character. I get outraged when my WH says it was a "2 year mistake". No, it was a series of consistent bad choices over a long period of time. In my view, he was consistenly living a double life and disrespecting me and our marriage for a long period of time, with no plans to stop.
> .



I agree and was the one thing that burns me to the core. The constant insistence that it was a "mistake". I argue that it was a calculated decision and not a mistake. I never have found myself just getting in the car, driving for hours, and ending up someplace having sex with someone else because I made a mistake in my direction. You have to think about it the entire time that it is happening and weigh the decisions in your mind (yes you draw conclusions, bad, good, indifferent, but you weighed the choices).


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## stevesvws (May 13, 2013)

My wife cheated on me recently and the length if the affair was huge for my decision. The window for EA was only 2 months max and the true confessed EA was about 11 days with a 1 time PA confirmed event. 

When confronted she immediately said it happened, no lies. And we have since hashed it out and are in counseling now. 

I hate what she has done, but all I can do is use it as an event in life to change ourselves to reconnect as a couple and work on ourselves personally. 

If this had happened before or had happened for a long time, I could not handle it and she would have been kicked out of the house ASAP. 

In fact if there is ever a 2nd event, she will be thrown out ASAP and I will use every way I can to tell everyone what has happened.

I am a really good person and do not deserve a lying cheating person to be in my life. 

She is getting a 2nd chance because I love her, my kids and she really kept our lives going during this whole thing. It just really sucks to be lied to and cheated on. 

Everyone's situation is different and only the couple can make their decisions on how to proceed.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

stevesvws said:


> My wife cheated on me recently and the length if the affair was huge for my decision. The window for EA was only 2 months max and the true confessed EA was about 11 days with a 1 time PA confirmed event.
> 
> When confronted she immediately said it happened, no lies. And we have since hashed it out and are in counseling now.
> 
> ...



I hope what you write is true about the length. Unfortunately you have a liar and a cheater in your life and therefor will never really know the truth if she doesn't want you to. The wife didn't reveal it to you (you found out) and that shows that she was willing to go further, continue to cover up, and do it again (and might do it again in the future or have done it in the past). I agree that every situation is different and each couple must decide for themselves.

I wish you luck.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Not eating lunch . Having my own heart-to-heart with my H....

I think that 5 years out of an 8-year marriage is really a huge mountain to climb in terms of reconciliation. Most of your marriage has had 3 people in it. 

I would not at all be sanguine that he has gone 'no contact' with her. He is almost too agreeable, from your description. After 5 years of an emotional (at least) attachment, many people go through withdrawal when contact is cut off.

You definitely need some time to let things settle so that you can decide how you want to proceed. Perhaps you want to ask him to leave for now. You could also consider a VAR to catch any conversation he might be having with her. You also can start trying to uncover secret accounts (e-mail, fb, etc.) that he thinks you won't be able to connect him to.

I think you can tell that I don't believe that he has stopped contact with her & if he has for now, the NC won't last. For me, any decision to reconcile after such a long A would very much depend on the remorse, as Dig says, and the first sign of real remorse is completely stopping the affair.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

now_awake said:


> I also forgot to add in my original post that he also confessed to contacting and even setting up a date with a prostitute two years ago. Again, he claims he backed out, that he's been too afraid to act out in RL (and always kept it 'safe' online). Even if that's true, it was clearly headed towards acting out in RL


Well, now you need to get yourself tested for STDs.

I think what you know is the tip of the iceberg.


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## stevesvws (May 13, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I hope what you write is true about the length. Unfortunately you have a liar and a cheater in your life and therefor will never really know the truth if she doesn't want you to. The wife didn't reveal it to you (you found out) and that shows that she was willing to go further, continue to cover up, and do it again (and might do it again in the future or have done it in the past). I agree that every situation is different and each couple must decide for themselves.
> 
> I wish you luck.


I know. That's my biggest problem. The event happened on a Thursday and I confronted just 4 days later. Supposedly she was going to tell me but I don't believe it. It's only been 2 months since day. So far we just started counseling and is working well but we have only been 2 times so we haven't got very far in to things. In counseling I hope those items are addressed but I feel like its all about moving forward and creating us being closer as a couple. 

Through our own talks we have talked it out and I have asked many times if this has ever happened before and crying answers were no. I hope my answers are correct.

If not I may go crazy if if find out this has ever happened before.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

It does seem like it's going all too smoothly doesn't it? Believe me, I am weary. I keep wondering, why is he acting so different from other WS's? 
Even if he is in NC with her, it's definitely a big possibility that she'll be back one day. Apparently, he had managed to stop contacting her for about a year in the middle of the affair.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

now_awake said:


> Anyway, I've been struggling with the length of his affair. I don't even know what to call it. EA? It was an online affair, and he still maintains no physical contact was made. They did exchange nude pictures and they when I read the texts, they were making plans to meet with the possibility of sex. She also wrote that she was falling in love with him.
> 
> How long were they 'friends'? *Off and on for five years.* I have trouble wrapping my head around that. For some reason, I feel that it would be easier if it had been short term. It would have been even better if he had told me himself. If it weren't for that fateful day, I'd still be in the dark.





now_awake said:


> *Next month with be our 8th anniversary.*


5 out of 8 years married. I suppose the OW is now programmed into his head. He has issues he needs to resolve. He was not totally into the marriage. The question is why not?


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

He has admitted that he began to see me and the kids more as burdens than people to enjoy. His attitude toward the kids has been improving. He's spending more time with them and getting less annoyed with them. 
He was really young when we met and I see now that it was too much for him. Not excusing his behaviour in any way though.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I've come back to this in every comment, but I don't believe at all that his A is over. If he is in fact no longer in contact with her, he is just laying low right now until things cool off at home. That is what his behavior tells you. He actually is acting like a typical WS, i.e., one who has managed to put the lid on things at home, but also have his AP as well.

If you reconcile, this will be a battle for you on all fronts: You will have to confirm constantly that he has stopped the A. You will have to figure out what kind of marriage you have really had for the last 5 years. You will have to see how you feel about his lack of love, devotion, and loyalty. You will have to gauge his remorse.

After reading all of your posts up to now, I can answer your original question.

If it were me, I would keep working with the counselor, who seems good, and I would tell the H to leave. His betrayal and lack of commitment would be too much for me.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

MC was interesting. I brought up how unlikely I thought it was that he could just let this other woman go so easily. He said he he missed talking with someone, but didn't miss her at all. He says he feels bad for having used her for so long when she had developed feelings for him. 
Who knows. I'm still on high alert.

The therapist could see how stuck I felt between my choices. His suggestion is to start completely over and just see if there's a friendship between us. No intimacy at all. I said that I can do that for now. I feel it's more than he deserves, but when the kids are older, I want to tell them that I did everything possible to keep the family together. He can never make the same claim.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Yeah, you're gonna be on high alert. It's like watching a scary movie alone at night and all of a sudden every shadow is Jason or the Thing! You might hear things that don't happen. You will doubt yourself and your sanity at times.

But you will get through it for YOU. Not for him. You will get through it for your children. Not for him.

Until you allow things to begin for him.

I like what your therapist suggests with seeing if there's even a friendship there and moving forward with no intimacy. THAT is freakin key. See, often the wayward spouse will think that having sex means everything is a-okay and they couldn't be more wrong.

My own wife had a 5 year long physical affair. I struggled for at least 6-8 months thinking there HAD to be something there between them. There wasn't. It was sex. It was an escape from reality every couple months. 

Again - thoughts of peace to you today.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

God, it's tiring always being on hyper vigilance mode. He's slowly spending more time on the computer, though more out in the open. Sometimes I catch myself trying to quietly walk in the room to see if I can catch him doing anything. I wish I could sometimes switch off the caring. Again, it feels like it's more than he deserves-like he has too much power over me. I want to heal for me, not for him. I want to regain my own inner freedom, no matter what happens to the marriage!

I agree that sex doesn't mean anything is fine. Intuitively I knew something was wrong in the marriage before, and sex became meaningless anyway. It can be used as a band-aid when spouses aren't willing to really look at the real issue.


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

We had an interesting discussion last night. He admitted that his acts were purely selfish. He said he truly believed that after fulfilling his obligations to the family, he felt he had every right to fulfil his own needs. 
So that's good. That's some honesty. But then I told him how I felt that I wasn't for years, I wasn't worth honesty and loyalty. In turn, it has made me feel 'not enough' and worthless as a partner. 
He couldn't accept this. He actually said, "that's not right. I've given everything for you, don't you see that?" 

Ummmm, no! I don't see that!! He thinks because he stuck around that means that he didn't really want to run away. He says he hid from me because he loved me so much and didn't want to let me go. I just can't understand that. He loves me, so he takes away my right to choose what I will or won't accept in my own life? 

I will never understand that way of thinking!


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