# Long distance EA



## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

My wife of six years has been having an emotional affair with a high school boyfriend since October. I know they have not consumated because of the distance involved (1000 plus miles). FWIW he is recently divorced so there's no one to expose him to and I know she sought him out, not the other way way around. We're both in our mid-forties and the thought of spending time with most of my high school chums has zero appeal to me.

Long story but I caught her in November, read some of the texts and confronted her. She said everything she should have said at the time and admitted the only thing that stopped it from becoming physical was the distance. She was reluctant to admit anythiing at first but we started seeing a marriage counselor who pushed her to open up and she finally did.

Our marriage mproved - we talked more and made time for each other and things seemed to be going well for us. Last weekend she looked me in the eye and said "I love you and want to be with you and to earn your trust again".

I thought "she finally gets it" and that this was behind us.

Tuesday night we're lying in bed and she asks me what i know about open marriages and how they work and I answered with a semi-PC non-judgmental answer (she is a therapist in a psychiatric hospital so we.sometimes have odd conversations). I then said this wasn't something I had any interest in (fantasies? Yes, but reality? No). She then asked about trial separations and I asked what she was getting at; that I wasn't going to give.her peermission to cheat on me. If she wanted that.mire.than.me she could have a.divorce instead.

After a.lot of prompting she says she's still curious about the old flame.
She says "I'm being honest, I don't mean to hurt you."

Now I can't sleep.- I check her browser history and there's a search for flight info & conferences in a city a few hours away from him (presumably as a cover story for my benefit).

Turn out she started texting him again rught after the New Year and proposed meeting to put her "curiosity" to rest. The womderof IPhomes.and free text apps strikes again.

Once again she says she's sorry blah, blah... but this time I have come down hard. She's destroyed the trust and undermined our relationship to the point it may not be recoverable. I have moved to the guestroom and have told her divorce is where we're headed because I don't think she's capable of sustained change. I am taking a hard stand this time.

Only one problem - I still love her in spite of the pain she's caused. My head says the right thing to do is get her out & over but my heart is lagging well-behind and I'm afraid I'll crack and that it's a bluff.on.my part.

Not sure what I'm asking for here - this isn't a club I wanted to join (no offense intended).


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Wow..Read this user's threads.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/search.php?searchid=2140295

So many similarities.(1000 miles OM, EA turned PA) She was hell bent on destroying the marriage(she eventually did) using the exact same terms(to get the curiosity out of her system)

Look at this final confession. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/29546-d-day-today-now-what-12.html#post530733 

And how similar it is


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Tough situation dear. Sorry you are here. I dont wish anyone to experience the hurt, betrayal. 
Warlock gave a good link reference, you will find it useful and informative to you.
There are n number of cases like yours. You may find them in this forum, browse through them. I don't want to repeat what those threads say.
Collect yourself, I can understand the devastating state of mind. Calm. Act with caution and tact.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Don't let your love for her keep you from doing what you need to do to protect yourself. She is using psychobabble to justify her EA with this man and has no remorse for the pain she is causing you. She is deep in the PlakTow with this man. 

Gird your loins, file for Divorce and have her served. If getting served officially does not snap her out of the fog and waker her up to what she is doing, then you have your answer and know you need to go through with D. 

Check into the 180, there are postes here who will come along shortly to give you links to it. Helps alot if you can stick with it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You saw her false remorse. She still has you as her plan B in case the OM doesn't work out. So you have to remove yourself as an option.

Run a hard 180 on her.
The Healing Heart: The 180

I don't know if you need to file for divorce immediately, but I would certainly begin shopping for lawyers. Also, I would cease marriage counseling until she is committed to your marriage.

Good luck.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How old are you? Children?

Did she hear he was divorced and then started searching?

I hate to say this but it looks like you might have been her second choice all the way along.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I am willing to bet that if the roles were reversed she would be seeking an attorney right now.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

At this point you must play hardball.

See a lawyer and get papers draw up.

The tell her you are dead serious and you will not accept ANY contact and you are prepared to execute the nuclear option if there is even one more contact.

Be ready to expose to her friends and family.

Also on your own find out about the OM. Don't believe anything you've heard about him that comes from him or your wife. He's long distance anything is possible. Considering hiring a PI service to do a full background check on him. There might be a girl friend for instance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Amazing to me that someone in the psychiatric community wouldnt know exactly what is happening to her (biochemically) and exactly how this story turns out... What happens, the stages, the thoughts, and even the outcome is written is stone... you would think she could easily recite the entire thing.. it's the oldest story and the most common life trial since the dawn of man... anyone with a psychology background and an interest in the human behaviors, while non immune to it should be well aware of all of this... So much so, the "script" is almost blah, blah, blah to me. Really there is no mystery or magic... It's so painfully common and predicatable.

Fog is just amazing. She has to know the term limmerence? 

How can she not know this? How can this story be happening?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

****Tuesday night we're lying in bed and she asks me what i know about open marriages and how they work and I answered with a semi-PC non-judgmental answer (she is a therapist in a psychiatric hospital so we.sometimes have odd conversations). I then said this wasn't something I had any interest in (fantasies? Yes, but reality? No). *She then asked about trial separations* and I asked what she was getting at; that I wasn't going to give.her peermission to cheat on me. If she wanted that.mire.than.me she could have a.divorce instead.****

When I was separated from my exH, I picked up a bunch relationship books. One advocated trial separations. I mentioned this to a friend and she said, that's nothing more than letting your partner shop around while you wait for the verdict.

I remember reconnecting with someone I used to date before I got married and we were working through our own impending divorces. I had met him because he was an adjunct professor where my brother was going to law school. He had a stellar resume and even when on to bigger and better things. 

Still, though, when he brought me up to date. I simply gasped. He allowed his wife to have an 8 month separation with some guy. And that did not end their marriage. He also admitted that she was still carrying on an affair just as they were getting married. 

I found that interesting, someone so accomplished professionally -- lots of women would have considered him a great catch (admittedly, he ha a chance with me that he didn't pursue) --- and yet he chose a woman, during their 5 year marriage, always seemed to have something on the side.

In any case, any therapist who advocates trial separations should have their licences revoked.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Note to self - don't try to type at 4 am on a Nook – I am embarrassed how disjointed I was early this am.

I’ve been lurking here as a “guest” since the first discovery day comparing my reactions/behaviors to others but didn’t want to post anything because I’m just not that way. I guess the times they are a changin’.

Called our marriage counselor & told her I wouldn’t be coming back - it’s a shame because I think she was good a good one (a cognitive therapist – she dressed my wife down for her behaviors & dishonoring her “partner” & gave me some direction on how to address some of the legitimate issues my wife pointed out in me). 

Just an aside, “partner” seems a rather PC term but I guess it keeps a MC out of trouble saying the wrong name/names in session. 

My wife says she is going to continue with the MC and will do anything to make this right/fix herself but right now I’m not ready to buy what she’s selling. Her actions have spoken a lot louder than her words. I’m going to get a therapist to talk to on my own for a bit to help keep myself from letting the situational anger/sadness/etc. overlap into the rest of my life.

Fell asleep in the guest room to the sound of my wife crying in the master bath last night – it’s hard but I didn’t put her in this place; she put herself there. I wish I could be one of the hard-charging Alpha males I’ve read on here who can take a scalpel and cut the relationship cancer out themselves without a second thought but I’m not one of them.

Guess it’s time to learn.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

give yourself a lot more credit as you have made some major steps that many BS's don't

I would keep up the hard line you are doing and even consult a lawyer and start the process


You can always stop the process, divorce takes time- MAKE HER WORK

she needs to show you she will go NC
be completely transparent
show true remorse

if youre a lurker then you should already know the lingo and steps

if you havent read it yet, read my newbie link in my signature


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I am impressed with the way you are dealing with this. Pat yourself on the back.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

OKnotokay said:


> I wish I could be one of the hard-charging Alpha males I’ve read on here who can take a scalpel and cut the relationship cancer out themselves without a second thought but I’m not one of them.
> 
> Guess it’s time to learn.


Exactly. Don't sell yourself short. You may have made a lot of mistakes in your marriage up to now, but I think you're currently doing the right things. Don't make things too easy on your wife. When her actions align with her words consistently, you may be able to believe her again.

Until then, read Married Man Sex Life and get Athol Kay's book. He advocates a mix of alpha and beta for married men. And you can always add alpha. If it doesn't feel natural at first, which it won't, just fake it 'till you make it. Eventually, you'll be a perfect hybrid equally capable of cooking dinner, or seducing a woman.

Good luck.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You absolutely have done the RIGHT thing

Your wife was willing to WRECK everything/everyone, for some cheap sex, with a guy she couldn't make it with the 1st time around---just to satisfy what????

OK, so you need to stay harsh/hard and hold your line---tell her she either stays in this mge., the way mge is meant to be, and has been for the 2 of you---or she can leave, get her D., and explore with whomever she wants and do it 24/7 with every tom, ****, and harry that exists!!!!----ask her point blank, is that how she wants the rest of her life to look.

Once she gets her head on straight, you DO need to find out WHY, this has come up, and what is causing it---and FIX it.

If she does wish to stay, and you decide to R.---strict boundaries, need to be set up, with actionable consequences---she must know---that this kind of straying, and thought processing, on her part, will never again be acceptable.

She also sends out a NC, letter, with you watching it go---and make that happen, like yesterday.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You love her and you want to save the marriage. Don't use that as an excuse to be a wimp. Use it as motivation to do the hard things to get to the desired outcome.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Don't be so hard on yourself; you're dealing with this the best that you can.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Keep up the good work OKnotokay, you are off to a good start. It is vital you read up on the *180* that PHTlump linked in his post and practice it. It is not a gimmick. Alot of people on this forum have used it to great success. It will help you gird your psyche for the emotional roller coaster that is to come and prepare you for D if that is what is the eventual outcome.

I have some observations:



> Fell asleep in the guest room to the sound of my wife crying in the master bath last night


Don't think for a minute she is crying because she hurt your feelings. She is crying because you will not endorse her wish to explore a sexual relationship with another man.



> Her actions have spoken a lot louder than her words.


Good observation. One of the tenents of the *180* is to believe nothing you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Pay attention to her actions, not her words. 



> I wish I could be one of the hard-charging Alpha males I’ve read on here who can take a scalpel and cut the relationship cancer out themselves without a second thought but I’m not one of them.


I cut my ex-wife off hard and quick when I caught her with the OM, but believe me I am no Alpha male! :rofl:

Hell I cried like a baby watching _War Horse _a couple weeks ago.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Have an appt with an individual counselor tomorrow & calls in to a few atty. Don't want a divorce but it's likely the least bad of a number of bad options. I am not anywhere near a point where I can even think about forgiving and reconciling.

In spite of this I really am not ready to pull the trigger on divorce for a lot of reasons. 

1. I truly love her - ugh I hate myself for saying this - and miracles happen occasionally (though it's not the way I tend to bet).

2. My hard response has taken her by surprise and she actually seems scared. I'm not giving an inch (it's been three days now - come on even I'm not that big a wimp). 

I had her write and send a no-contact letter the day I found out about round two - he's called & texted but he didn't leave a msg & she forwarded the text to me (he asked "Did you really write that letter? You okay?)".

I gave her a list ground rules she had to live by if she wanted to even have the chance to beg for forgiveness (I'm not really an a**hole but I'm trying to act like one). One violation and she's out. Any contact . . etc. It's like an alcoholic falling off the wagon. One and you're done.

I've also gone off the reservation a bit & have hammered her with questions by email (I'm not talking to her other than the bare minimum that I have to). I've told her she has to answer and she's confirmed things I knew that she didn't know I knew. Though it sounds like punishment (and I guess it is for both of us) it's a way I can walk her through the damage, lies, and deception she has done to our marriage and herself (was Bubba worth it? Really???).

3. Brutal honesty here - though we're both reasonably well-educated and middle income we're like a lot of people; upside down in our house and, not quite struggling, but financially tight. Sadly for me the house is in my name only (good credit, steady job history); I bought it not long after we met so I'm stuck. The state I live in is not a non-recourse state so short sales don't work well here & by the time I paid for a lawyer, counseling, real estate agent, etc there'd be no $ left to turn the lights on.

4. Finally, I went through a divorce in 2001 and already have an ex-wife (ex after 7 years of marriage & 5 years of dating - I sure know how to pick 'em).

It was pretty tragic stuff - a year after marriage the ex-wife suffered a full-blown psychotic episode & it went downhill from there. She was an atty & afterward never really worked a job that matches her education & intelligence again. We had a child together (12 now and the most important thing in the world to me - oral contraceptives only work when the woman "remembers" to take them; "forgetting" or flushing not so much) and in spite of hospitalizations, meds, inability to hold a job she got primary custody.

We finally got a divorce because she moved out leaving our son with me after coming out of the psych hospital so she could have "time to heal herself" without the stress of living with me. After six months of me begging her to come she came to p/u our child for the day & vanished for three wks stopping off long enough to get an ex parte award of custody claiming I was abusive, having an affair (with two women and one man - untrue, I can only wish I had the energy to try)

It took over a year and a half to wind through the court - I could write a long and not very-interesting book about the mess of divorce court, child custody, atty, psychiatrists, child support, etc. that would make me sound nuts. Had I not lived it I wouldn't believe it myself.

Not wanting to be a two-time marriage lottery loser shouldn't play a part in this but it does.

As for your question Chapparal:

_I hate to say this but it looks like you might have been her second choice all the way along._

Maybe but I don't think so (and Halle Berry wasn't returning my calls back then so my wife was 2nd choice for me too). When we met in '03 we lived in different cities - she's from up north and I lived in a warmer climate. She moved down here on a wing & a prayer to give our relationship a chance (it kind of scared me back then). No kids for the two of us together (thank God as it turns out) - I think that's one of the things she doesn't have that she wishes she did.

As for the OM he was a random Facebook thing where she was looking up old classmates. I'd never heard of him until the feces hit the fan the first time. 

Have done a bit of research on OM but nothing crazy you couldn't find courtesy or our friends at Google and Facebook. He's just another schmuck w/ two exes, kids by two different moms, who likes his cigarettes and go-cart racing. Have seen pictures of him so the appeal is a bit of a mystery, he's sort of a cross between Grizzly Adams and Larry the Cable Guy. In other circumstances I'd say whatever floats your boat.

Regardless of my opinion of him, a few dozen phone calls, hundreds of texts, emails, a Youtube video (blessedly G or PG rated - never would have thought of that one on my own), and the ******* rebel from high school became a combination of Casanova and Don Quixote for her. I thought we mostly outgrew stupid once we got out of college but toss in that heady mix of nostalgia, distance, and the Fog and she was ready to toss her marriage, reputation - blah, blah, blah.

In better spirits today for some reason - am in the home office & wife is asleep in the bedroom (she sleeps when depressed).

Playing music - the Clash on shuffle "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" Wish the stereo went to 11.

Sorry - too long - not sure what's gotten into me.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Having read your last post OKnotokay, I find it tragic that your wife, knowing the hell you went through with her predecessor, would pull this kind of crap and put you through the ringer. Makes no damn sense that an educated therapist would allow herself to fall for an EA with a guy she has not seen since HS.

I thought therapists were supposed to be able to see warning signs and steer a ship to safer waters. I wonder why she had blinders on to her own behaviors when her old beau came knocking? Does she have a thing for ********?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

spudster said:


> Having read your last post OKnotokay, I find it tragic that your wife, knowing the hell you went through with her predecessor, would pull this kind of crap and put you through the ringer. Makes no damn sense that an educated therapist would allow herself to fall for an EA with a guy she has not seen since HS.
> 
> I thought therapists were supposed to be able to see warning signs and steer a ship to safer waters. I wonder why she had blinders on to her own behaviors when her old beau came knocking? Does she have a thing for ********?


Thats whats makes it all the more difficult when its your second time around. The 2nd spouse knows what you went thru the first time and they end up doing the same thing. Been there, done that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Get a much better lawyer this time. Your last one should be disbarred for screwing up your representation so badly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Shaggy - unfortunately it wasn't my lawyer that was incompetent here; it was yours truly. I consulted with an atty before the ex took off with our child but didn't do what the atty said to do. 

Atty said "get a separation order and temporary custody award while she is impaired" She said I didn't have to go forward with divorce but to "think of it as protecting the child."

Unfortunately, I didn't want a legal separation/divorce for the usual reasons (love, pride, finances, family) plus I was afraid court would push the ex over the edge (she'd threatened suicide). Stupid is as stupid does - my bad.

To seal the deal my ex-wife hired the judge's campaign manager as counsel (there was a case in the state where I live & it's not considered sufficient reason for a judge to recuse themself from a case - my ex was crazy, not stupid). 

Met my IC the first time today. It concentrates the mind when the meter is running. IC says "What do you want & what are the odds you can find it with your wife?"

Homework assignment is to come up with a list of attributes required for me to have a successful marriage. Short answer? Love, honesty, fidelity, compassion, intelligence, sense of humor, responsibility. 

Seems my WS has a few problems meeting those necessary attributes these days (she's still smart & funny at least though she sure has been stupid lately). Guess I know what we'll be talking about next session.

My WS sent me a message right after my session - she's meeting the MC Monday to discuss the relationship sabotage on her part & to try and find out what's wrong with her so she work on fixing it. Good luck with that I said.

Thanks for the responses / suggestions. Am following a lot of what's been suggested elsewhere and am staying tough with WS. Problem is I have trouble staying P.O.'d long term - 'tis usually a good thing that I'm not an angry person but right now I need to hold onto it.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Sounds like you are taking some active steps, thats good

You aso need to be taking good care of yourself. Don't sit around and mope. Get out and get some excercise, join a club, start eating well and get yourself into shape. It will make you feel better and keep you from lapsing into depression. Rediscover some of your hobbies, start hanging out with guy friends. Do anything you can to keep your mind occupied.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

This list of instructions has helped a lot of couples. Please have your wife read it and get back to us with her reaction. Good luck and prayers for your family.

----------------------------------------------------------------



Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! 
__________________
What Are Plan A and Plan B?
[urlhttp://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739 

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Last edited by chapparal; 01-14-2012 at 10:01 AM.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Spudster - on the 180 am taking of long walks to get out of the house and spending time at the local bookstore where you can disappear behind a coffee and book. 

Am also taking up tennis again with a high school buddy (we grab pizza & a beer and watch a game once a month once or twice a month normally with the wife so there's not an issue there). We're both godawful at tennis but it's a bit of exercise we can both use and an excuse for time away from the crud w/out having to explain why I'm flying solo.

Have also been in almost constant contact with my best friend from college; ironically he's the guy who introduced me to my wife so he's blaming himself (not his fault). He's been my sounding board (poor b*st*rd) and has helped enormously. Can't say I always follow his advice or agree w/ his diagnosis; (he's more angry than I am) but his heart is always in the right place and he's always got an absurd or sarcastic remark to help.

Chapparal - haven't shown "Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse "
to my wife as of yet; not ready to let her know I’ve been on this site. I tell WS I need total honesty & disclosure to have any hope of going on in our marriage but I’m not giving it to her (about this). Am I a hypocrite? I don’t think so but . . . ?

Had to go through the instruction manual three times myself and for some reason the plumbing in my eyeballs kept interfering. Gotta get that checked . . . Will be sharing it shortly if there's any hope of her getting past the "stop reading here" paragraph.

WS meets the MC counselor (serving as IC) tonight w/out me - am waiting to see what happens. WS says she's taking the emails I sent so everything is on the table - re-read what I sent and stand by everything. There were no threats, no abuse; just a clear statement of the offense and what my expectations were going forward. She says she agrees to it all and understands what I've said & why but I still don't feel as though she fully gets it & why this matters. 

Time will tell what's going to happen, am vacillating myself. I don't know whether or not reconciliation is right for either of us even if she re-commits to the marriage. Will I be able to trust & forgive (can't forget) or am I going to be stuck where I am now?Hate to sound bitter but fool me once . . . 

In pain but processing - will get somewhere better fast no matter how this turns out.


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## Sparkles422 (Jun 3, 2011)

oknotokay:
Same scenario.
However, I started divorce proceedings and he was still in the fog but behaving erratically. Asked him whether he would go to MC, told me no. I had no choice.
I am divorced 7 months. It's not what I wanted but it was the right decision.
I wish you the best.


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## greys-anatomy (Feb 12, 2012)

So sorry this is happening to you. Maybe you can acknowledge what you have done on this blog too.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

This most likely the worst advice you will hear, but when she broke it off and he continues to try and contact her then I suggest a phone/email to OM and in not so uncertain term inform him that you will not tolorate this and will fight his attemp to influence your wife.

If he can't respect your marriage then you will no respect his life and expose his attempt in being with a married women, by contacting his family and any one else that will support a marriage.

Do your research on this POS and find everything there is to know about him and when you contact him talk to him like you'vre known him and his family for years (us first names)and do your best to convience him that his pry is not worth his effort.

Sure your wife will get pissed but right now she sound like she's on the fence and until the OM is completely out of the picture, he will continue to influence your wife.

Sure your wifes behavior is toxic but it seems she already made an attemp to end this, now it is the OM the is doing the chasing now and its time to go face him with a warning that will make him think twice about his effort in seeing your wife.

So please know your enemy and do the research that will show him you will not sit by and give up so easily.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

First off Greys-anatomy is my wife - guess which one of us doesn't clear their browser history everytime they go online.

So, since she asked here is my public airing of the major sins I am aware of in our marriage that are my fault (this isn't a comprehensive list; just the greatest hits):

1. In '05, before we married, I bought a house in a stable, suburban neighborhood. It's a 70's rancher with lots of room on a big shady lot. I took her along to look at the house & she expressed a few reservations that I didn't take to heart. I honestly wasn't in love with the house but thought it would be a good investment for a five year house and the price seemed right at the time. Well . . . like 40 or 50 million other homeowners I bet the wrong way. The market dropped like a rock and now we're upside down and I can't sell without cutting a check at the closing table. And the state we live in is a recourse state & I/we have enough income we couldn't even bankrupt out of it. She hates this house and has always said she thinks we would be better off somewhere else.

2. Just before we married in '06 she expressed a desire to have a baby together. She was 39, I was 37. I said I wanted to but the next day I chickened out; afraid of the finances, afraid of the pressure on a new marriage, and worried about health issues for her (anemia, heart murmur, on medications that can impact the development of a healthy child), and honestly wanted some time to be a couple before going through the changes inherent with having a child. 

Unfortunately, or you might not be seeing me here, we never arrived at a time where it felt as though things were stable enough to have a child. She wanted to take six months off work with a baby & we don't make that kind of money. There were constant money pressures, work pressures, and relationship issues that came to the fore and it never felt like the right time. This was a loss for us both because, in spite of our issues with each other, we would have loved this child.


I denied her this dream and she resents me for it and always will. My desires for stability, financial and otherwise, don't make me a bad person. Her desire for a child of her own doesn't make her bad. But there's no way around it - I own this one.


3. My family - on balance they are good, giving, wonderful people but like us all they have their flaws. When my ex and I divorced we were in the midst of a major redo of a 100 year old historic in-town bungalow. When she had her psychotic break I couldn't afford to pay a mortgage, apartment rent, for childcare, medical expenses for my ex-wife, and, later, attorney's fees I moved in with my parents for what I thought was going to be a few months that turned into two long years. Free rent, childcare and help dealing with my mentally ill wife (now ex-wife) weren't quite the bargain I expected.


The problem is there were/are strings attached. They are the hyper-involved grandparents who want to be there for the grandchild with fresh cookies and want to let the child have what he wants. If they saw him once a month it wouldn't be an issue but they see him at least once a week and come to every baseball/basketball practice & they want to be included in everything. And mostly that's a good thing - unfortunately they don't want to set limits on my son when he is with them and resist my efforts to do so. If he wants chicken fingers that's what they feed him. Unfortunately, when my son is with his mom (80% of the time), every meal comes out of a bag from a drive-through window so that's almost all he knows.


My wife, with some legitimacy, feels my parents undermine my parental role in enforcing standards of behavior and dietary expectations on my son. I have been reluctant to engage in this battle with them and have done so only in fits and starts over the last several years. It has only been since the first D-Day that I have become proactive and forceful with my parents making it clear my expectations with them on behalf of my son. My WS was mostly right on this front - I should have done more and I should have done it earlier.


4. Son's diet - I can't blame this all on my parents. I'm guilty, to a lesser extent, of the same thing. I get every other weekend with him and the last thing I want to do is argue over whether or not he's going to eat his carrots. I waited too long to start enforcing the "eat what you're given or go hungry" rule I had as a child. This was my mistake too - sometimes I can blame tight schedules (work, sports) but mostly it was because I didn't want to fight the fight with my son. I wanted to be the "fun" dad who would throw the baseball or shoot hoops, not the one who would fight over what he was to have for dinner.


I have gotten better on this but still have room for improvement. She is right about my failures on this as well.


5. I did not listen - some of this is typical Venus/Mars stuff but some of it was real. When she would talk about certain issues (want to move, want a baby, want to buy a new car, etc) I would dig my heels in with my answer as if I were the voice of God. "We can't afford it." "This isn't the right time."


My answers were right but they weren't answering the underlying issues - her unhappiness with me/us/herself.


So there you have it. I have done wrong as well.


I want to save our marriage but I can't save it by myself. I love you Grey but I will let you go if it's what I have to do.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I am probably missing something here. I did not see anything in yoiur list of things you did wrong that justify a spouse carrying out an EA.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

I don't either but my wife (Greys-anatomy) asked me to spell out my failures as a husband so I did.

I own my failures and acknowledge them. lt doesn't make what is happening right but i can't fix her; I can only fix myself.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

greys-anatomy said:


> So sorry this is happening to you.


This is not some inevitable event beyond everyone's control. It's the result of your deliberate actions.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Interesting that your wife picks the name of a TV show that glamourizes and promotes infidelity to be her handle. :scratchhead:



> So sorry this is happening to you. Maybe you can acknowledge what you have done on this blog too.


Wow. Tell ya what Greys, you got some brass balls on you gal.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

She says I see the world in black & white; she sees shades if gray. I don't think she'll be back.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I am probably missing something here. I did not see anything in yoiur list of things you did wrong that justify a spouse carrying out an EA.


Also, something as momentus as bringing a new life into this world should have BOTH spouses wanting it, not just one.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> I don't either but my wife (Greys-anatomy) asked me to spell out my failures as a husband so I did.
> 
> I own my failures and acknowledge them. lt doesn't make what is happening right but i can't fix her; I can only fix myself.


Its typical for the WS to want to rationalize and justify their affair so they can feel less guilty about themselves.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

It takes two to tango - my wife sleeps soundly at night while I lie awake anxious for what the future holds.

If I were talking with a friend I'd say she's made her choice and you're not it. Deal with it.

She's very angry I posted "in a public forum" with what she calls recognizzble details. Oh well - have reread and I stand by what I said & the only way anyone would know who this is would be by knowing the situation already.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Your wife is rationalizing everything, that is what unrepentant cheaters do. One day you'll come home and find her closets empty and her gone. Are you willing to wait for that to happen or are you going to take matters into your own hands? 

I'm going through this also with my WW. I say let Greys go and be with her online-lover. You need to D her and find a woman who will love and respect you. Greys does not understand committment, only entitlement. None of the items she p*ssywhiped you into listing as reasons for her discontentment justifies what she is doing!


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> She's very angry I posted "in a public forum" with what she calls recognizzble details. Oh well - have reread and I stand by what I said & the only way anyone would know who this is would be by knowing the situation already.


She's full of it. You know it and we know it. She's just trying to keep you on the defensive, hence all the blame shifting she's doing. Not one ounce of regret on her part. 

Oh and Greys, if you happen to be reading. You should take a cue from all the other former waywards here. They get it. You need to own it and take responsibility for the affair instead of blaming it on your betrayed husband.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Yes, I know it. My WS went into my email and forwarded an email from me to my parents explaining my issues that contributed to why my WS & I were getting divorced (very similar to my recitation a few postings ago). I didn't tell them about the EA or the planned PA. I felt that was too private.

I haven't even told my family about the EA - didn't want to go there because I, foolishly, still held out hope that she would come out of the fog and realize that I was a good man and a good husband and that I was willing to do what it took to make our marriage work.

I was tempted to forward the emails back & forth along with her admission that she planned to have a PA with him but what's the point? Revenge? It's not going to change her.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> Yes, I know it. My WS went into my email and forwarded an email from me to my parents explaining my issues that contributed to why my WS & I were getting divorced (very similar to my recitation a few postings ago). I didn't tell them about the EA or the planned PA. I felt that was too private.
> 
> I haven't even told my family about the EA - didn't want to go there because I, foolishly, still held out hope that she would come out of the fog and realize that I was a good man and a good husband and that I was willing to do what it took to make our marriage work.
> 
> I was tempted to forward the emails back & forth along with her admission that she planned to have a PA with him but what's the point? Revenge? It's not going to change her.


Let me get this straight: You're going to allow her to demonize you as a lousy husband to everyone while you take her dirty secrets to the grave? Why? Do you think you're being gallant by falling on your sword?

You have a chance of knocking her out of the fog by exposing the affair and making it inconvenient for her. But if you're rather be a martyr and let her demonize you as a lousy husband, well, that's up to you. She's making you out ot be a chump. Get over this chivalry thing. Why are you protecting her honor? She's feeling no consequences for her actions, and no consequences equals no incentive to change.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Let me get this straight: You're going to allow her to demonize you as a lousy husband to everyone while you take her dirty secrets to the grave? Why? Do you think you're being gallant by falling on your sword?
> 
> You have a chance of knocking her out of the fog by exposing the affair and making it inconvenient for her. But if you're rather be a martyr and let her demonize you as a lousy husband, well, that's up to you. She's making you out ot be a chump. Get over this chivalry thing. Why are you protecting her honor? She's feeling no consequences for her actions, and no consequences equals no incentive to change.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> Yes, I know it. My WS went into my email and forwarded an email from me to my parents explaining my issues that contributed to why my WS & I were getting divorced (very similar to my recitation a few postings ago). *I didn't tell them about the EA or the planned PA. I felt that was too private.*
> 
> I haven't even told my family about the EA - didn't want to go there because I, foolishly, still held out hope that she would come out of the fog and realize that I was a good man and a good husband and that I was willing to do what it took to make our marriage work.
> 
> I was tempted to forward the emails back & forth along with her admission that she planned to have a PA with him but what's the point? Revenge? It's not going to change her.


Absurd. Foolishness. Muisguided loyalty or I don't know what. Good luck with this. Not revenge at all.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

It's mutually assured destruction. I don't care what her family thinks of me. I know the truth - I will let the people I care about know when and if the time is right. I have nothing to hide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> She says I see the world in black & white; she sees shades if gray. I don't think she'll be back.


Life is full of shades of gray. We deal with this by appyling more black and white boundaries. So from my perspective this is much of her issue. Blur the boundaries and you risk this.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

It's all academic now - she is moving out March 9th - she has an apartment lined up so this really is the end.

I hoped and prayed there was a way out of this but there isn't - she chose him; not us.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> It's all academic now - she is moving out March 9th - she has an apartment lined up so this really is the end.
> 
> I hoped and prayed there was a way out of this but there isn't - she chose him; not us.


This just drives home how deep her affair has been. That if she is not allowed to cake eat she wants to be gone. Sometimes an affair can be caught early enough. There was probably more to their previous time together which is somewhat moot right now of course.

It is easy for me to say BUT, you could not live in between like you were.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> It's all academic now - she is moving out March 9th - she has an apartment lined up so this really is the end.
> 
> I hoped and prayed there was a way out of this but there isn't - she chose him; not us.


The stats are clear: 97% of affair relationships fail because they aren't based on reality, they're based on lies. The OM/OW is always going to be Mr/Miss Wonderful and the BS can never compete with that. The WS only sees their AP in the best light, at their best. Anyone can be the shoulder to cry on. They are never there when things are down, bills to pay, children to raise, they were their to take care of them when they were sick, or comfort them when they needed comforting. The BS was. All they can see in the fog is that the AP is the solution to all their problems. 

There's a reason why many people regret divorcing because of infidelity. The majority of the time, the WS gets a dose of reality and sees how their AP really is, and they wish they could get back with their BS, but by this time the BS has moved on. A 3% success rate for affair relationships are extremely sh!tty odds, yet when they're in the fog, they think their love is real and they will beat those odds. The "Us against the world baby" mentality. Most often, they end up more miserable then they started at once the newness of the relationship wears off and they wake up seeing how crappy their partner looks like everyday in the morning. They never saw that side before. 

The reason the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence is because it's fertilized with bullsh!t.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

"I don't like the house my husband bought; I'll cheat on him!"

No buys.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Now it comes down to a series of business-like transactions. Dividing property & debts. Ob-la-di; ob-la-da life goes on.

It's a sad time but better now than dragging it on. The OM is 1000 miles away so sealing the deal will be a bit complicated for her.

This isn't love she's leaving me for - he was just the catalyst for her to get out of the marriage. Whether or not she will regret it 6 months or two years from now is academic. I will never allow myself to be in a postion to be hurt this way by her again.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> Now it comes down to a series of business-like transactions. Dividing property & debts. Ob-la-di; ob-la-da life goes on.
> 
> It's a sad time but better now than dragging it on. The OM is 1000 miles away so sealing the deal will be a bit complicated for her.
> 
> This isn't love she's leaving me for - he was just the catalyst for her to get out of the marriage. Whether or not she will regret it 6 months or two years from now is academic. I will never allow myself to be in a postion to be hurt this way by her again.


Yes, something has really been driving her. She may be using the OM as an excuse. But this is the path she has chosen. Then again we see that distance is not such a big deal for some folks. 1000 miles is just a fwe hours away. Plus you really have no idea what the real plan is.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

yeah, atleast you know she was feeding you all this bullsh!t while looking for a way out. 
Aaah...The people we trust or heart with..

And she will be waiting for you to pick up the pieces once affair falls through and realizes that this was her mid life crisis


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> This isn't love she's leaving me for - he was just the catalyst for her to get out of the marriage. Whether or not she will regret it 6 months or two years from now is academic. I will never allow myself to be in a postion to be hurt this way by her again.


My hear goes out to you OK. Thank heavens you did not have a child with her! Be grateful you dodged that bullet!

I know you are in pain. Do what I'm doing: go completely dark and have no more phone or e-mail contacts with her. Communicate only through your lawyer. If she wants to separate, then you separate entirely. Good luck.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> Now it comes down to a series of business-like transactions. Dividing property & debts. Ob-la-di; ob-la-da life goes on.
> 
> It's a sad time but better now than dragging it on. The OM is 1000 miles away so sealing the deal will be a bit complicated for her.
> 
> This isn't love she's leaving me for - he was just the catalyst for her to get out of the marriage. Whether or not she will regret it 6 months or two years from now is academic. I will never allow myself to be in a postion to be hurt this way by her again.


My exH had a PA but I always see this as the exit affair. What killed our marriage were his EAs and playing me off other people.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

So . . . It's late afternoon and I have an appt with my IC. Wife calls and asks to come - says she cancelled her furniture purchase for her apartment.

Is she rethinking her decision? Call me a fool, call me delusional. She came and we met the counselor. She said ahe was sorry, said I deserved better, said she hsd been callous and hurt me. That she loved me.

But . . . She said she isn't cut out to be married and had lost herself. She said my view of marriage, you're in or you're out, wasn't he same as hers.

No romantic comedy ending for us.

The counselor said thank you for coming to her and walked her out. She came back and said (my words, not hers). She's gone and has been for a while.

Walked out past the STBX wife without a word. Am at a friend's house away from home, away from her.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sobering.

This was a very poignant post indeed.

Nothing wrong with being an allin type of person my friend. I guess some folks can get away will being a little bit married. I do think an allin spouse deserves someone compatible that can also be allin. 

You can get through and you deserve a better outcome. You will get that better outcome I am confident. You just need to heal and find that compatible person.

I do think she is rationalizing this. No doubt she has her own daemons to deal with.


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## oldmittens (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear that but it just proves that it's time to distance yourself from your wife. My guess is that she's gotten it into her head that she's not cut out for marriage as a way to justify her leaving you and going off and having an affair with this OM. I'm willing to bet that once she turns her fantasy into a reality shall come running back to you. All this talk of not being cut out for marriage is just an excuse and a way for her to justify what she's doing to you it's called blame shifting and it's incredibly common with wayward spouses. My advice is to use this time to better yourself and prepare yourself for a life without her for the very real possibility that when she does come back you won't want her. Good luck you didn't deserve this no one does.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> So . . . It's late afternoon and I have an appt with my IC. Wife calls and asks to come - says she cancelled her furniture purchase for her apartment.
> 
> Is she rethinking her decision? Call me a fool, call me delusional. She came and we met the counselor. She said ahe was sorry, said I deserved better, said she hsd been callous and hurt me. That she loved me.
> 
> ...


Sorry to read that. So what's her view of marriage? That its a part time thing? That you can be married and yet be with other people? What was the point of her coming to the counselling only to tell you that?

You need to get this toxic person out of your life ASAP. Let OM deal with her issues. At least you know now for sure that any R with her would be pointless.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Sorry to read that. So what's her view of marriage? That its a part time thing? That you can be married and yet be with other people? What was the point of her coming to the counselling only to tell you that?
> 
> You need to get this toxic person out of your life ASAP. Let OM deal with her issues. At least you know now for sure that any R with her would be pointless.


Yeah, I am not sure why she did what she did except for her own closure.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Told my son over the weekend (dad, why are you so sad?). That was the worst - how do you explain it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> I don't either but my wife (Greys-anatomy) asked me to spell out my failures as a husband so I did.
> 
> I own my failures and acknowledge them. lt doesn't make what is happening right but i can't fix her; I can only fix myself.


In life in anything of any significance or value there are always going to be perceived failures. ALWAYS. It is the nature of things. There are always choices that we make. Many men choose to work very hard to support their familes. Their failure is that they are not always around and focused on the "issue" of the moment. Not saying there cannot be real problems arise from this. Men are fixers but often women just want a person to talk to about things and if you work long hours and are under stress you spend much of your off work time trying top fix things at home. Just an example. But flip it around. Lets say the guy doea not care so much about support. He works less, is less motivated lets say. Sure he spends more time at home but maybe the family had trouble making ends meet or they do not go on that vacation.

My point is that no matter what you do or do not do, it can be viewed as having good to it AND bad to it. We can try for balance but that is a perpetual struggle of its own. We try. But life intervenes.

Then add to this the inevitable history re-writing that occurs by the WS. Truth does not matter.

Sure we can all do better and no doubt there are things to improve on. Serious things maybe. But no excuses for affairs in my opinion. Keep in mind I am the one who was in an EA. This was not in any way my wifes fault. In fact because of her vigilance she was able to help me out of continuing being stupid.

I just see too often guys talked into putting the trouble on them. I think that is natural. In a crisis many men want to fix it and take responsibility. It feels safe because we think if we take it on we can fix things.

For sports analogy freaks:

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
— Michael Jordan

Or even better -- "All sunshine makes a desert."


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> Told my son over the weekend (dad, why are you so sad?). That was the worst - how do you explain it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honestly. No sugar coating. No embellishment.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

direct and age appropriate, reassure him it is in no way his fault and that he is loved


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

I wasn't planning to tell my eleven year old son but he asked me why I seem so sad so I just pulled the trigger & told him more or less what follows with my STBX on the other side of him:

_Sometimes adults have issues and problems they can't resolve between themselves and (STBX) and I have decided we shouldn't be married anymore.

This has nothing to do with you; it's all about the two of us and everyone in this room loves you. If you feel sad or have any questions you can ask either of us anything you want. I may not always have the answers but I'll try to do my best to help you understand.

Your dad is going to be sad for a while but I will be okay. STBX is sad too and it's okay if you feel sad too for a little while._

Yuck.

Called my ex-wife last night to tell her as well (since my son is with her most of the time) so she heard it from me & not the rumor mill. I just said we were parting ways and didn't give details. Thankfully she didn't ask for them.

Too many fun conversations lately.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> Called my ex-wife last night to tell her as well (since my son is with her most of the time) so she heard it from me & not the rumor mill. I just said we were parting ways and didn't give details. Thankfully she didn't ask for them.


Amazing how some people sell their souls so cheaply. 

You need to hammer her in court. Is she taking your kids with her? I wouldn't let her leave the state until the custody issue is decided. You can have your lawyer file for temporary custody of the kids, that way she cannot take them out of state until the divorce is final or without a court order allowing her to do so.

Do not make this easy for her! 

And Greys!.... If your reading this... shame on you!


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

OKnotokay said:


> Sometimes adults have issues and problems they can't resolve between themselves and (STBX) and I have decided we shouldn't be married anymore.
> 
> This has nothing to do with you; it's all about the two of us and everyone in this room loves you.


As much as what you said is a good way to reassure him, I think he will eventually know deep down that it is not totally true. If your WW truly loved him she would not have put herself before your marriage. That is something WSs never seem to get. They're not just cheating on their spouse, they're cheating on their marriage. Selfishness is the antithesis of love.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Custody isn't an issue; STBX is the stepmother. WS does love him in her own way and I thought I needed to tell him something with her there so he could ask questions of either of us.

Later that afternoon I took him to see a movie to get out of the house (FWIW - if your kid wants to see "Mystery Island 2" pick something else). 

While driving he asked me questions - that's the way it is with kids - you tell them something; they wait & then ask questions about it when you least expect it.

Son:
"Why are you and _____(he calls her by her first name) divorcing?"

Me:
Because ____ realized she doesn't want to be married anymore. She loves you and she loves me but has things she wants to do that she can't do while she's married to me.

Son:
"What sorts of things? She gets to ____ (she has a hobby that she's very good at) anytime she wants to."

Me (trying to choose words to be truthful but not overly so):
Well, WS has a friend, OM she looked up because she was unhappy and looking for someone to talk to. WS and her friend started talking and making plans that didn't include me.

When I found out I asked her to stop but she didn't want to. I tried to do things to make her happy but that didn't work so she's moving out to see if she's happier living by herself. Living on her own she can spend more time with her friend or make new friends.

Son:
Oh. 

There's a long silence as he stares out the passenger side window.

Me:
Your dad is going to be sad and grumpy sometimes but I want you to know I love you and I'm not going anywhere no matter what.

Want to grab some junk food before the movie?

Peanut butter cups to the rescue. I'm aiding and abetting my son's addiction.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> Custody isn't an issue; STBX is the stepmother. WS does love him in her own way and I thought I needed to tell him something with her there so he could ask questions of either of us.
> 
> Later that afternoon I took him to see a movie to get out of the house (FWIW - if your kid wants to see "Mystery Island 2" pick something else).
> 
> ...


I think you handled that as well as anyone could be expected to. Hats off my friend.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Baseball practice for my son tonight - one of my son's team mates comes up & says "I hear you and your wife are getting divorced."

Great way to start the season. My ex-wife could hardly wait to share the news. The fun never ends.

Tuesday morning my wife leaves me a message. I love you with all my heart and all my soul. Blink, blink - there go the waterworks.

Go to grocery store and the clerk says "Happy Valentines Day."

Blink, blink.

Lying awake at in a strange bed in a strange apartment - what am i doing? Why am I here?

My wife is at home and I'm here. What's wrong with me? I'm angry but more than being angry I'm just sad. Sad for the loss of the future I thought we would have together.

I cracked - I called her. I love you I said - I want to grow old with you she said. Tonight we would meet tonight at a coffee bar to talk to and try to find a way out of where we are now. To try and get back the hope and the love that got lost somewhere. 

I walk in and she doesn't look up - lost in her thoughts. I sit next to her but it was if we weren't reading off the same script. Instead of making a try at talking we just engaged in verbal judo. 

Her -you said we could selll the house - how can I believe you when you woudn't do it before?

Me - it doesn't make sense now but this an emotional decision, not a rational decision. If you will work with me to do the hard work we need to fix us, to fix.me, to fix you I am all in.

Her - Why should I trust you now?

Oh boy . . . That wasn't what I expected to hear.

She says she needs more time -another two weeks of time alone to think. Can we talk on Friday?

WHAT HAPPENED TO I WANT TO GROW OLD WITH YOU?

Now I understand why you go dark. 

Now I'm angry; my wife can't trust me? I've been trying to sleep on my friend's glorified day bed living out of a clothes basket and duffle bag and I'm supposed to do this another two weeks while she decides whether or not she wants to.stay married?

We live in a house with the three king size beds. Surely there's one in this house I can sleep in.

So as I head toward my friend's apartment the resentment sets in. I live there; it's time for me to go home.

She grabbed her laptop from the bed and left.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The good news is you are back in your home and the cheater has left the building. Time to go 180 and let things be for awhile. Let her camp out.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

When you go dark they have to chase you in order to interact. It puts them off their game and changes the balance.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

It's not me she's chasing... it's herself. She came back home but we're not to discuss things, what is happening now and in the future.

She's changed the PW on the phone bill; no need to hide anything anymore i guess. As my IC said "you're the only one trying to save the marriage. She's already gone."

There's been a game of chicken going on between us - I really thought she would give in and would chose me, would chose us.

Looks like I lost.

She pulled the plug on contributing to the household expenses - now between child support for my son, mtg, car, etc there's not going to be enough income to cover the expenses. She said she'll give a prportionate share for the time we're here but if she does all that will do is forestall the issue iluntil early next month.

Called the mortgage company lasr night - am current right now but won't stay that way for long. Priorities - child support (jail would be worse than where I am), car, insurance. Everything else comes afterward.

Can't sleep, don't want to eat (not all bad - could stand to lose the LBs), BP is skyrocketing & having what I guess are panic attacks.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> It's not me she's chasing... it's herself. She came back home but we're not to discuss things, what is happening now and in the future.
> 
> She's changed the PW on the phone bill; no need to hide anything anymore i guess. As my IC said "you're the only one trying to save the marriage. She's already gone."
> 
> ...


Go to your doctor for alittle help. Explain to him whats going on. Unfortunately, they see this all the time. He can give you some meds that will make a world of difference.

Good luck, best wishes and prayers for your family,
Chap


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Go to your doctor for alittle help. Explain to him whats going on. Unfortunately, they see this all the time. He can give you some meds that will make a world of difference.
> 
> Good luck, best wishes and prayers for your family,
> Chap


Bailed on work today & am sitting in the Dr office waiting with Divorce Court on the tube. Figures - in a way it's a bit reassuring that as bad as things are there are people a lot more screwed up than I am out there.

Wife said she loves me & wants to work on marriage. She will commit to stay & work of I will let her go see him where he lives to get closure and then will end things.

Ugh . . . So, wonder what sort of happy pill prescription I'll leave with today?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Don't make any deals with her , her seeing him is a BAD move and a manipulation tactic rom her.

What a load of bull she is sprouting, chose your words and let her know this. She is playing you so she can swan off and throw herself at him with your permission . Call her out on this .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> Wife said she loves me & wants to work on marriage. She will commit to stay & work of I will let her go see him where he lives to get closure and then will end things.


She'll get you to pay for the plane trip and you will never see her again.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> Wife said she loves me & wants to work on marriage. She will commit to stay & work of I will let her go see him where he lives to get closure and then will end things.


You mean she will go and confirm that she has no chance with him and make sure he rejects on her face so that she can be sure of getting back to you ? 

Or may be she will have one quick fling hoping to get him out of the system.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

A letter of non-contact will work just as well, or even better, than meeting face to face.

I would be wary. She's given you false hope before.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> A letter of non-contact will work just as well, or even better, than meeting face to face.
> 
> I would be wary. She's given you false hope before.


I think the OP already knows why she needs to see him in person for closure, spread eagle style.

Let her go and even buy the ticket, make sure it's a 1 way ticket only. Then cancel all the CC and ATM card so she won't have a red cent to her name and let lover boy buy her a ticket home.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> She'll get you to pay for the plane trip and you will never see her again.


All things considered my buying her a one way plane ticket might be the best bargain I could get. 

I saw the doctor and got a passport to Prozac Nation and a side of Ambien amnesia (wonder if I'll remember taking it?). It was an interesting appointment - seems the Doc is separated from his wife and getting ready to divorce. The emotions, the issues - text messaging, frequent calls, etc were more or less the same (I suggested he try the IPhone Extractor mentioned elsewhere on this site). I haven't spent this much time talking to a doctor in ages.

As I'm waiting to get my prescriptions it occurs to me how screwed up this really is. I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown fighting to resuscitate a marriage that's already coded. 

As for her ultimatum - "let me go visit this guy and I'll promise to commit to the marriage. If you don't I'll walk" wear comfortable shoes sweetheart.

I let this twist me up when she was finally honest and told me how little our nearly nine years together meant to her.

Go forth and do whatever Grey - I can't stop you; though I'd like to; and I can't control you and don't want to. This is your life and you get to make of it whatever you want. Sorry I'm not what you want anymore.

As for the finances this will pass - I will rent the house out or short-sell and bankrupt (FWIW Grey - your name is on the second mortgage too so our friends at the mortgage company will be calling on you too). 

None of these are pleasant options as options go but they all beat a marriage in name only with a partner who can't be trusted.

Grey - I doubt you're lurking out here anymore but if you are - I love you and a part of me always will. But what you're asking for has nothing to do with love so the answer is no. 

Love me and only me or leave me.


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## Dexter Morgan (Dec 8, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> Once again she says she's sorry blah, blah... but this time I have come down hard. She's destroyed the trust and undermined our relationship to the point it may not be recoverable. I have moved to the guestroom and have told her divorce is where we're headed because I don't think she's capable of sustained change. I am taking a hard stand this time.


Good. Stick to your guns.




> Only one problem - I still love her in spite of the pain she's caused.


Aye yi yi. You need to go out this weekend with some guy friends, have some beers, and check out what you are missing. What you could have, which is to be away from an untrustworthy wife, and dating again.

Ya, you need to go out and paint the town red with some friends.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Short on money, cancel the iPhone contract for starters. Who's cc is paying the bill on it?

As for going to see the OM, tel her OK but only fits ok for you to have another woman in yourbed whir she's is his.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

What a wh0re...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Just in case your wife is reading and a reminder to you



> She said everything she should have said at the time and admitted the only thing that stopped it from becoming physical was the distance


And now she wants closure by meeting him? I mean, what does she think about herself ? Leave about shamelessly having an affair while married. Now she wants a ***ing closure by meeting him ? It would atleast have been half decent(still bad) if she had separated and visited him. To think that she needs the closure of the affair partner to continue marriage is such a slap on every decent married man's face. Stupid and self entitled.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm the one who threw the gauntlet down; you're in or you're out of our marriage. She wanted a short term separation to think things through, see the OM I said no, you're in or your out. She chose out. Not happy about it but it's not my choice to make for her..

She choose him. I fought for her but couldn't compete with Fantasyland.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You did good OK. You did the right thing.

Work on taking the best care of yourself and your son as you can. Make sure you stay in counseling, eat right, excercise and for god's sake don't mope around the house! Get out and enjoy your freedom! Hit the b*tch hard with the divorce and don't show her any mercy! :lol:

Be well friend. Remember you have a family here at TAM. We're all rooting for you!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

OK,

Run, Run, Run. She is on her way to fantasy land. She is running to a guy she has only talked to or chatted too.

Grey is nuts!!!!

You are right. The 9 years mean nothing to her. Typical cheater fog.

Take care of you and your son.

The karma bus has one more stop to make.

HM64


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

OKnotokay said:


> Wife said she loves me & wants to work on marriage. She will commit to stay & work of I will let her go see him where he lives to get closure and then will end things.


WTF?

Seriously though. Where have I read this before? Oh yes, HurtinginTN's thread. Almost same exact situation as yours, except they have 2 children. His WW wanted to drive all the way to Colorado from Tennessee so she could meet OM and get closure from him. It''s simply cheaterspeak for "I want to go bang my OM and take the affair to the next level".


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Took Ambien before bed at 9 pm (exhausted lately). It's now 2:30; wonder if I'll remember this tomorrow?

Wife and the OM have history - they dated when she was a senior in high school (the 80's) and split up when she headed to college & he joined the service. They saw each other for a little while years later when she was grad school (she's a bit hazy on exactly when) and had last seen him in the early to mid 90's.

She has said she sometimes wondered what he was up to but the feelings she has for him came as a surprise - until Facebook made it so easy to find people she never thought to look.

Truth be told we all have someone from our past that enters our mind from time-to-time where we wonder "what-if?".

Mine is a girl I dated in college that I have't seen in twenty years. When this mess with my wife started in November I looked her up online. She's still beautiful and she's single - I saw her picture and had an immediate rush of memories of the time; of music - Ella and Lous (Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald They can't take that away from me - YouTube), the scent of Coco Chanel, and a little black dress. Powerful stuff. But I didn't call her - I'll always have feelings for her but she's a part of the past; not a part of my future.

My wife is lost in a fog - mid-life crisis, boredom with the marriage, low sense of self-worth, not having a child, disappointment with where she is in life, etc. Because life isn't always exciting she went looking elsewhere and found what she thought she was looking for; someone else.

When she came home last night I asked her to come to me; I put my arms around her and said "I love you and I've given your ultimatum a lot of thought but the answer is no. I don't want to lose you, I don't want you to leave, but this isn't an option I can live with and have any respect for myself or trust in our marriage again. If you will let go of him I will go through counseling with you to fix us and I will work to be a better husband for you. I am going to treat you as my wife until you leave and I am working toward acceptance though I have a long way to go."

She cried; I cried but we were able to sit across a table from each other at dinner tonight without anger surfacing or accusations being made.

This isn't good or okay but it's survivable for the next three weeks I guess.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

When she leaves give her some flowers, a card, and a key to a storage locker.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Don't try to guilt her back into the relationship by being emotional. It won't last.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She wouldn't be acting like this if she didn't think you are the safe backup option. You'll always take her back is what she believes.

She also doesn't fear loosing you. I'm not envouragong nothing, but I bet if there was another woman chasing you she would be acting very differently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> It''s simply cheaterspeak for "I want to go bang my OM and take the affair to the next level".


and now that you know about it, with your implied permission.
(Because you did not use all your options to prevent her from going.)


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

chapparal said:


> When she leaves give her some flowers, a card, and a key to a storage locker.


I'm thinking you should do this sooner rather than wait until she leaves. Start talking about dividing things up etc. Download divorce papers etc. and let her see you working on them.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm not okay with any of this - my wife made the choice to seek out another man, to lie to me, and to the blame on me for her unhappiness in our relationship. I wasn't a perfect husband but I was a loving, gentle, and faithful man who would have done anything he could for her. But it's impossible to fulfill needs you don't even know exist.

I haven't given my wife my blessing to do any of this - I have stated a consistent position since this all began - the two of us were to have a real marriage or there would be no marriage. There is no middle ground for me on this issue.

I have been 100% committed to our marriage, to the vows we made before our families, our friends, and before God and I have done my best. I get to exit our marriage sad but knowing I was and am a good man and I was a good husband to her.

In sickness and in health - my wife is sick with an addiction - and I have tried to help her end it but ultimately the addict has to choose to stop for themselves.

It's three weeks from today when she leaves - I am struggling toward acceptance and distancing myself from her emotionally. I have contacted the mortgage company, downgraded cable & the internet, shut off Netflix, & moving to a cheaper cell phone (hello clamshell, goodbye smart phone).

When the moving van comes I'll present her with the divorce papers and we'll go our separate ways. She knows I've worked on them and we've already discussed property & debt division. She knows the consequences of her actions on her and upon me.

Perhaps she is right - she should never have married me or anyone - I just wish she had figured it out before we married.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I think you've fought all you could to be honest. Maybe it's some sort of reprieve that you've found that girl you dated in college still single.


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## OKnotokay (Jan 19, 2012)

Past is past - the old girlfriend is in New York City and she was the one I wanted twenty years ago; not now.

She was a wonderful girl - I hope she's happy and has a good life but that's going to be the road not taken - we weren't right enough then; we're not going to be right enough now.

The future is a question mark - have spent the afternoon reseaching bills & filling out paperwork with one the consumer counciling group that works in affiliation with the credit reporting services to bang through a debt management plan. Am current on everything right now but that's going to change soon.

Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket - I'm due for better luck.


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