# The panic and pain is so strong, still...



## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Hi,


I'm hoping to do what others have done on this forum, and write a bit everyday to help get me through. All your responses are very much appreciated.

I'll have to figure out how to link to my past threads so I don't have to give my whole story. I've lost some of my threads and so this is my attempt to keep something going.

And I wonder, off the bat, what concerns to people have about their ex's getting on here and finding their threads? I guess an anonymous name helps, which I have, but not anonymous enough.

In short, though, I'm coming up on the 3 month mark since my H announced "I don't want to live with you anymore" which meant he's done with the marriage. We've been married 6 years, together 9, with a just turned 7 year old. 

Apparently he's been thinking about this for a long time, despite the fact we were trying for 8 months to get pregnant with our second. I was pregnant in April and miscarried in July.

The biggest obstacles or anxieties for me are:

- the sheer nightmare of waking up realizing my whole life is changing, and that he's really gone. The shock of it is still so strong

- not having any real explanation from him, just a dozen different excuses that are harsh and hurtful, like it's because of my "grumpy disposition."

- the fact that he's involved things like a business we were going to start together (he's starting it with someone else) and if that weren't enough, the person he's starting it with is(was) a mutual friend who he told me he has a "relationship on the table" with...he also called it an emotional affair

- the way he's acted since the announcement - showing up late to pick up our daughter, trying to take things from the house that are both of ours without asking, asking me to come get our daughter form his house when he's in the middle of hosting a party...just careless and disrespectful to me

- the horror, really, of realizing he is such a different person than i thought, and how am i going to continue to engage with him for our daughter. this is a small community and i don't want to have to see him around everywhere, with other "friends".

- it feels so adolescent of me, but just the absolute insult to myself, to our life together, to all the effort i've put into trying to make a life with him. it is SO personal. when he announced the split i tried for over a month to tell him that i believe in us, and that we can solve so many of our issues, and that i love him and want to move forward.

He is just so done, it's shocking. I know a lot of us say that here. How can they be so callous? And how can they have "faked" being in the relationship for as long as they say...months, years...it seems so immoral to me. Well, I think it'd be impossible to do. 

I will write again soon. Thanks for your thoughts.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

Sounds like you need to put your foot down-especially when it comes to disrespecting you.I tried to be nice to my ex for the sake of my kids after the divorce and it seemed like I was always getting the short end of the stick and she continued to be nasty.After I got tough with her my life has been better ever since and doing the 180 has helped me get on with my life.The search for answers about what went wrong I know is mind boggling but looking at the person now do you really care? I know when I look at my ex now all I see is toxic waste.


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## rickster (Jan 14, 2013)

lucy. Get yourself a good lawyer, file for adultery, and clean him out. He seems like a shelfish guy, who, even at this delicate time, is disrespecting you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Has anyone ever written their ex, soon to be, whatever, a hate letter? Does it feel really great to get it all out and send it and not care, or did you regret it?

Today I spent half the day (of my mindless job) composing a letter full of all the things I need to say, lots of reasonable questions but okay, some sarcasm, some real bitter stuff too. 

Then I spent the other half thinking of all the good things about him, and how I could suggest that down the road, he and I meet to talk and even, with the help of a counsellor, heal together, like, talk about why the marriage ended, hear and acknowledge each others' frustrations. As if he'd agree to it, he's so done, but call it a fantasy.

How can I have both of these ideas in my head at the same time? How can I be so hurt and angry and still know that I care about him. It just doesn't make sense to me, the way he's gone about this, if he actually wants to have a positive co-parenting relationship in the future. 

He's all business with me, but I know he's partying with new friends and perhaps sleeping around and I can't understand how he could have turned his back on my and our daughter. No matter how long he wanted to get out.

What is it that makes people want out of a relationship, and then get out without even talking to their partner about it first. Like, maybe there's something we can do about this? Work together, honour our vows? I'm a pretty creative person and I have my issues, for sure but I was willing to keep trying. And trying.

And he's rubbing my face in the fact that he can't wait to be in another relationship, which of course will be so much better than ours because... (sarcasm)

How do I co-parent with this guy? I can't even look him in the eyes, and I want to resist every reasonable thing he asks for and tantrum like a baby. My brain can't seem to accept and my heart isn't ready to move on.

What do I do with this awful in-between state of things?


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

This I do know, in a lot of cases a person doesn't just wake up on whim thinking today I'm breaking off my marriage.By the time one partner tells the other were done they have usually made up their mind a long time ago and have gone through the grieving process hence their apparent indifference.I cannot say this is true for narccistic types and whatnnot but as rule it is.By the sounds of it you want to reconcile -you truly need to do the180-appearing needy will not help.If it comes to a point where the other half is willing to go to marriage counseling then you can address some of the issues you have brought up otherwise I would definitely say do not send him a letter and do not let him walk away with your self esteem in the process.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

Oh and when it comes to coparenting it is truly best just to email I know all this may sound harsh but you really have to try and get on with your life if the other half is not making the effort.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Lucy -- I have tried to keep up with your story since you first came here. I remember how hard you tried to be faithful and loving, and to leave the door open. To try everything possible to show your love to him, and your faith that your marriage could be saved, even to the point of meeting the people in the house he was moving to. I'm so sorry that this is the way it's ended up. 

Are you seeing a therapist or counselor at all? Do you have any friends IRL that you can talk to, who might even know him? I don't know if you're having problems with anxiety or sleeping (too much or too little), things like that, but they're very common, and perhaps a doctor may be able to give you something to help for the short term.

I know it was suggested in the beginning, but really the best thing for you to do now is to start your own detachment process from him. If you want to write the hate letter, do it. But I wouldn't send it. What do you really hope it would accomplish for your situation? He'll know how you feel, yes, but he'll also have more ammunition to prove it's your 'grumpy disposition' that was at fault. See what I mean? Get it out of your system for sure, but write it in a word document and just save it, or write it out in a journal.

The way he's treating you now is a reflection of who he truly is -- NOW. And that person with all of his rudeness, disrespect, etc., is the person you'd be going to end-of-marriage counseling with. Do you honestly thing you'd get any sense of closure? Do you think what he would say would be an accurate representation of what your life together was really like? Or what he's come to believe to justify leaving you?

As gulfwarvet said, he began the detach process before he even told you he wanted to split. He had a big head start on you, especially since you spent more time afterwards fighting for him.

How close is he currently with your daughter? If I remember correctly, he was not seeing her very regularly there for a while. If he were to relinquish custody, or give his permission to do so, would you consider moving someplace else? It would allow you to have a new place to start over. Having scheduled visits with her dad in that scenario might not be much different from what's going on now, I don't know.

I don't want this to sound harsh to you, Lucy, because I went through these same very strong feelings, but, a big reason the shock and pain are still so strong for you is that you're allowing it to stay strong. It happened, you can't change it, it sucks big time, but at this point, you have to start thinking of his leaving the way you would think of an earthquake or some other natural disaster. What would you do in a case like that? Sure, you'd go through the normal feelings of shock, loss, grief, etc., but at some point, there comes acceptance that there's no going back to life 'before.' It's about building new with what's left. That's you and your daughter. He sounds incredibly self-centered, so he can take care of himself. Let the anger you feel towards him propel you forward. 

Unfortunately, as with many of us here on TAM, you may never get a full, accurate, honest answer to the question 'WHY?' The most important thing to remember is this: He chose this, without your agreement, knowing it would hurt you and your daughter. That's all you need to remember when you need to get pissed again and fight against the control he still has over your life.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

@gulfwarvet...thank you. I have been using email exclusively, except texts in some cases like "I'll be there in 5 minutes", for coordinating about childcare. But recently I've let the emails get emotional. Like when he says he doesn't have money for gas in the car that we're still sharing, but he does have money to go out multiple times in a week.

@angelpixie, it warms me to know you've been following along. thank you for your thoughtful response.

I wish I could just feel angry and hurt enough to close the door and walk away. He is self-centered but it's not all bad - and how it rips at my heart to think of the things he did that were considerate. How can he have done those things, right up to the end, when he had clearly made up his mind long before that he wasn't really committed?

I am having SUCH a hard time letting go. How do I do this? I am waking up feeling haunted by images of the good times, of our arguments, of the possibility that he's with another (or more than one) person sexually already.

I am seeing a counsellor, two actually, and the one today was harsh with me too. Like, when someone says NO, they mean it, so you have to move on. 

BUt seriously, HOW do I move on? I'm literally feeling like life is a waking nightmare. In this small town, around every corner I'm afraid to run into him and one of his new friends. The life I thought we were going to live, here, is taunting me -- all our dreams (which maybe weren't his dreams, as he's been lying to me for so long) and plans were going to be here. We've only lived here a year. 

So angel, I do think about moving. All the time. But do I want that drama in my life - his anger and that of his whole family, maybe even some friends who I might lose over it - for the next 12 years, until our daughter is an adult? Maybe it's worth it. I certainly can't see how I can stay here and just get on with anything.

I'm also hoping time will help. We've decided I have until the end of June in this house, where he's paying the rent. I'm paying all other expenses for my daughter and myself - I work a very basic job due to the fact that we just relocated and I've been mostly at home with our daughter. I'm planning to go back to school in the next year - was already planning this but waiting for things to calm down a little. What a joke!

God, life feels like absolute torture right now. And if only I could just hate him and be done with it. I want to understand, I still care about "him" (even if it's not the way he is acting right now) the way he has been at times and I thought we could get to a better place together with some counselling help. 

It's not even that I can't accept that we're done, or even hope that we would get back together now, but actually how to just physically and emotionally rebuild my life. I thought I was a strong person but this feels like it has the potential to wreck me. 

Please someone tell me what my problem is! I fear I am letting him take my self-esteem with him...and I guess that's what the hate letter would be about. Letting him know what a horrible person he is and hoping he suffers and feels guilty forever. Because that's actually what I wish right now.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

PS. @angel, what does IRL stand for?


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## workingatit (Nov 13, 2012)

IRL = in real life


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Lucy - 

Read through your thread tonight, Jesus God, I'm so sorry, and your inner torment sounds so similar to mine. These people on TAM that are able to read a couple of self-help books and drink the purple kool-aid and a few days later are dating and running marathons and MOVING ON absolutely amaze me. 

All day long my thoughts are on her and us sitting in a bistro laughing and us snuggled in bed in the pre-dawn sipping coffee and talking about our hopes and dreams as our baby snores softly next to us and my rubbing my shaving cream on her face and her complaining because I left the toilet seat up. 

Omigod, would rather take a bullet than go through this.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

You have to understand the grieving process and you will come to terms with why you feel the way you do.Shock-denial-sadness-anger-acceptance-hope are some of the feelings one goes through and it goes in stages.My own thoughts are accept the fact your going through this grieving process and don't feel conflicted about it.Time heals alls wounds is the old cliche and I think there is a lot of truth to it. I have had a lot of thoughts,feelings,and sentiments you people are expressing here but 1 year later I have felt my feelings subside towards my ex and can look back every so often and see I'm drifting more and more towards indifference.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

I know 'exactly' how you feel and what your going through. I dwelled so much on the 'whys' and the hope and having to run into him at work etc...I was clinically depressed. I got physically ill...I mean it never lifted from me (the physical part) until very recently. 

As for the mental anguish...it does run it's course but you have to reeeeaaaallly want out of it. I went to the doctor because I knew I was spiraling down fast...and got into counseling and groups. I mean my situation really messed with my head...and as for self esteem...girl...he robbed me of that 3 years ago...

I learned about codependency ...and took the control back where I could. I went weeks of being really strong as I had an important goal to accomplish...one that would aid in my healing...once accomplished...I crumbled...it hit me like a ton of bricks...this life change...
I dunno if you are in counseling...if not go. I do suggest you for sure look into medication to help with your slump...if your on something maybe a dosage change or a change altogether... I had to use a combination of things....the counseling ...TAM...meds...writing...a lot of movie watching to rest my brain ...to get through the 'ill' beginning of my break up. 

Most of all you have to want to survive. You have to realize that one man...is not worth your well being...you find survival skills to cope...
Find your combo...and will to survive...one minute at a time...

I cannot tell you pain will subside fast...that would be too ez...
None of this is going to be ez. 

Lean on the people here...every day all the time...someone will always answer...and wipe away your tears...and encourage you...

...and sometimes they will slap you up into reality...and those hurt...but dam...it got me outta bed when all I wanted to do was roll over and die. :')

...and now on occasion I gently yet firmly slap others... 

You see unless we embrace what is happening and work with what we can...we will never heal... We help each other embrace...heal and move on...and because we are human...we falter...but then we get back up....

Don't you dare let this 'wreck' you. Decide now...your not going to let that happen..._and then start living..._


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Yep, I can take being slapped. I know I need it from tiime to time!

Today was really hard. I'm feeling more emotional that I have been for a few days...which means REALLY emotional! Got given a "warning" at work for not focusing, had to deal with my daughter being rude to a friend, and felt generally pretty grumpy and short-tempered. 


How do people out there with kids do it? Keep positive and focused for the kids? I am enjoying some really strong closeness with my daughter the last couple weeks expecially (she's 7) but sometimes I'm just so irritated by the whole situation - being the only real parent present, as her dad sees her once or twice a week and only for "fun" stuff, or she plays with the daughter of his roommates. But I don't want to let her be with him more, either. It's a trap for me but I also know I'm choosing it - choosing more time with her over "fairness" with him.

There's nothing fair about this.

I'm just struggling on so many levels...all the old music I used to listen to sounds horrible, even new places and things I did in the early stages of our separation (at almost 3 months now, am I past the early stage?) are tainted by the sting of gross break-up energy...

I am doing completely NC to the point of being ridiculous or even unfair to our daughter...well, I'd rather in an ideal world that we could do the "switch" both together, but I can't look at him, don't want to see him because for some reason I still get a flip in my stomach and know I'm attracted to him. So I just ignore him. We text for some stuff, email for others.

How do I get over this? I want the things that we wanted and talked about together...I can't handle the thought of him with someone else doing them. I KNOW in the rational part of my brain, and even in my heart, that it's ridiculous to want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you. But he's assumed so many things about me that aren't true, and not communicated to me what he was really needing in the relationship. 

Plus in trying to think positively about the future, and being with someone else and maybe even having another family (I'm 33, still want more kids I think, was pregnant and miscarried earlier this year), I get so hung up on wondering how my daughter will be doing through all that, shuttled between two homes, and how little I'll know about what's going on with her dad. 

I can't seem to let go of the good memories and the potential we had...

And I feel really badly about myself even though I know I shouldn't. Like I've failed him. Why am I so damn willing to treat him like he's the one who deserves sympathy? He's been a jerk about so much of this and truly isn't someone I'd want to be hangin out with right now. I just can't understand how he could be so ready to jump out of our marriage, out of family life that I didn't think he was so opposed to, right into the single life, hanging out, partying, hosting parties, making new friends, and for all I know sleeping around. Isn't that a shock to him? And why the fvck do I care? 

I just wish I could wipe him out completely, and right now I don't even think my daughter would be worse off for it. It's like he died and took all our dreams with him. Or maybe they were just my dreams but still. WTF.

I'm going to look over the 180 again. I'm obviously still emotionally hooked in, but I'm losing some of the steam I had for reaching out and trying to connect with people. This town is too small. 

And can someone give me a short summary of co-dependency? Maybe this was us? Like, why would he have stayed with me for so long if he was unhappy? He said it's been years but we've been planning life, trying for a baby, etc. all through those years. 

If only I could just be angry and slam the door back in his face instead of still thinking there are good things about him and that I'm willing to forgive him. Of course lots would have to change but who says people can't change?

And I am thinking about leaving town but then there's likely no chance we'll get back together. 

Can anyone see some blaring message I should be getting here that I can't see? Help help me.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

And I feel like being SO nasty when I'm not feeling like I miss him. 
GD confusing, this is!


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

Stella Moon said:


> I know 'exactly' how you feel and what your going through. I dwelled so much on the 'whys' and the hope and having to run into him at work etc...I was clinically depressed. I got physically ill...I mean it never lifted from me (the physical part) until very recently.
> 
> As for the mental anguish...it does run it's course but you have to reeeeaaaallly want out of it. I went to the doctor because I knew I was spiraling down fast...and got into counseling and groups. I mean my situation really messed with my head...and as for self esteem...girl...he robbed me of that 3 years ago...
> 
> ...


been trying to help... 

also read the book 'codependancy no more'...


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself: Melody Beattie: 9780894864025: Amazon.com: Books

You can find this in many libraries, Lucy, and there are used copies online for just a few dollars.

Lucy, in the beginning I could have written a lot of what you just wrote. I couldn't bear to think of him with someone else. We went through so much crap in our marriage. I wanted to get to the point when we could relax a little and get to do the things we enjoyed together and planned together. We had a miscarriage, too, though a couple of years before the end. I lost my mom a few months before he initiated the split. 

As it became clearer and clearer that it was over, I eventually had to make a decision that I was going to break away from _him_, even though he was the one that started the split. I knew I had to keep living, if for nothing else than for my son. NearlyEx did spend a lot more time with our son, but he is on disability for depression, and I do not know what will happen with him in the future. I decided I had to make sure DS had at least one healthy parent. That's what got me out the door. It has been by no means a quick or easy process.

You mentioned music. Music played a huge part in our relationship. There was a crap ton of music I felt I couldn't listen to because it brought up memories, good and bad. But that included music I loved before I ever met him, and shared with him later. It finally hit me one day that I'd have very little left in my life if I allowed him to taint it or take it all away from me. So, I started purposely listening to that music. Over and over and over again. Made myself cry. Didn't allow myself to run away from the memories. Until those things didn't bother me anymore, and all that was left was the music. I have that back again. I've done that with some movies. Still haven't done them all yet, though, even now.

I had to see him start spending time with other women. Pics of him nuzzling on Facebook, seeing him standing outside of a bar with a group of friends with a girl leaning on him. Finally knowing he definitely started a relationship with the last EA he had when we were together. Dealing with her in my house. Walking past our open bedroom door, seeing her lingerie on 'my' side of 'our' bed, on linens I got and hand-embellished for our last anniversary together. Those things are gut-wrenching. I never want to go through that again. But in the end, having it shoved in my face made me deal with it. I had to get desensitized to it. It didn't go away. My son still spends half of his time there, so I have to see them together. I could request that we do drop-offs and pick-ups at our local center that facilitates no-contact, but the main reason is because of me not dealing with things, not because NearlyEx is violent or anything like that. He's a royal d!ck, but it's up to me how I react to him. Every time I deal with him and get through it, his power over me diminishes. 

That's how it can be with you, too, Lucy. It's not going to be easy, nobody's telling you that. But it can be done. You are young, you've got so much life ahead of you. This might sound simplistic, but think of the way allergy shots work. You're exposed, in increasing doses, to the very thing you're allergic to, so that your own immune system can get stronger and not be triggered into an allergic reaction. That's what you're working towards with him. 

I know it doesn't seem like it could ever happen, but it can. I've just crossed over that threshhold. And I never thought it could happen. My divorce is on Feb. 14th. I don't know if I'll cry in court. I do know that I can definitely, honestly say that our marriage is irretrievably broken -- because that man that I thought I was marrying, is gone. I may grieve that the things I wanted so deeply will never happen. 

But, in order to live, I HAVE to let that go. And choose to be alive NOW instead.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

I've been divorced for one year Feb21st.Finished the child custody 4 months ago,I found out my ex had a boyfriend at that time and it was like I got punched in the gut.I guess reality really hit me at that moment.My ex was very sentimental to me. I met her 5 months before I went to the gulf war (1990) and spent 8 months over there.During that time she wrote me and kept my spirits up-it was brutal.When my unit returned to the US the local police dept was there as we got off at our home base calling out names and handing out divorce summons. I had several friends who found out their wives hadn't remained faithful.We had one guy who didn't take it very well the military police disarmed him on the spot.But my then girlfriend was waiting for me with open arms and a year and half later we married.So letting go has been hard but truly I look at her now and she is so far removed from that young lady I loved all those years ago-I think this happens in a lot cases.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

It's like I just can't settle on how to feel . I'm up at night going over scenarios, and occasionally my mind and will is strong enough to stop them. The what ifs, the "how should i act now in case he decides to try again," and hardest being just the sheer shock of it all, the things he said right up to the end that sounded like he wanted to make plans together. Am I angry? Hurt? Glad? To accept one version of things would be so much easier.

He picked my daughter up this morning. I'm borderline (ok, maybe flat out) rude to him, because I ask him time and again to just stay outside, I'll get her ready and send her out. I'm trying NC but this seems to be as close as it can get. Then he still comes in, knocks first then opens the door and I DON"T WANT TO SEE YOU! Can't he get that through his head?

Am I just being immature? Please be harsh with me. Or gentle, or both. I feel like he'll be justifying his decision to leave me even more, seeing me act in this way. Like he can't even put two and two together to see that I'm hurt.

What am I waiting for? Something from him that will change how I react? I can't think of a single thing that would. But I don't really want to have a ****ty co-parenting relationship with him. But maybe we never will have a "good" relationship in that way. I feel like I'll never forgive him (unless he comes back and says he wants to work things out, change what wasn't working, etc. - and even then it feels like a stretch now).

Actually I think I want him to acknowledge my hurt. In a big way. And apologize. And tell me the things he did that contributed to the demise. That would all help.

The only thing I can imagine doing to move on is MOVE, out of town. And the thought of that exhausts me on every level right now.

So it's like treading water in really, really thick sludge. Every day feels like a challenge. I just want life to get better and I want to feel supported and respected and I seriously need some affection, too. That wasn't happening with him, so good riddance, right? It's getting to the other side of this gulf that feels just awful.

Tell me I shouldn't write another letter that tells him all the things I wasn't happy with? He should know, because I think now he's got it in his head that it's all me. I want to hear something from him but I don't know exactly what and I don't know if it would even help. My heart feels irreparably broken, at least as far as he and his role in my life is concerned.

Thanks for listening out there. I'm going to keep writing this for myself, too - it feels better than a journal that no one sees. Peace.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

@angel - thanks, as always. I think in the way I'm going over scenarios in my head, imagining him moving on so smoothly and being so ****ing social in this town, it's like I'm trying to immunize myself. Eventually it won't be so painful to imagine if I've practices it in my head a million time, right? Except it doesn't seem to be working, just torturing myself.

And I wish I could say that the person I married is gone, but I know he's still there, I can see it, and I still have this damn compassion in me for his struggles, for the reasons I think he's left (re: transgender issues, I have a longer post about this somewhere but don't know how to connect it). Damn this compassion! I just want to hate him and be done. But I can't and also know, long term, I don't want to. THAT's the torture. He and I shared a lot of good stuff, and he has been supportive in the past. But I guess he's changed? The how and why is beyond me at this point, though.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Today: I saw a really cute guy as I was leaving yoga class, who I've seen around a bit, and he held the door open and we had a couple nice seconds of eye contact. It was enough to send me off on a little high. 

Today: It all crashed hard when my H was waiting outside my house with our daughter. I've asked him to do NC and he can't figure it out. Hands me the key to the car we're still sharing and says "Hi." 

As if I'm going to say hi to him! But again this is why I don't want contact - I act rude and can't make eye contact and I'm sure in his mind he's just writing me off even more. So I shouldn't care - and on some level I don't care what he thinks, but I have to deal with the feelings I have and they're so painful.

I have the rest of the day ahead of me, with my daughter. It's sunny and we're going to have fun!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Concentrate on the last part you wrote, Lucy. He is obviously not showing you respect, so you just do what you have to do. Unfortunately, the fact that he's disregarding what you've asked about NC shows that he's already written you off quite a bit. So don't feel at all bad about being 'rude'.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

So no retaliative moves? No spiteful decision making? How can I be the "big" one in all this when he just doesn't care either way? 

I guess I could wait 20 years for an apology from him.

So good people out there, what do you do with the good memories? How are they not "ruined" for you? I'm really looking for concrete things I can do to feel like the last 9 years of my life weren't a total waste.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

They were still good memories. Its not like you can go back and ruin them or that the person he is now is the same person he was then. Just lock them away as fond memories that have come and gone. Soon you will have more good memories that will make many of those old ones fade.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

The pendulum is still swinging for you, Lucy. After this settles down, it will be easier to come to more of a conclusion about whether your memories are 'real' or 'lies.' I think NW is right. For now, don't concentrate on that -- don't even let yourself spend much time thinking about past times with him. It doesn't help you with what you need to do right now.


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## Lovingwife315 (Dec 10, 2012)

oh Lucy...... I feel for you and alot of your posts are my thoughts as well.

The only difference with us is my H, still wants to be with me, intimatly and friendship, and honestly I want that too, which is where the HUGE TORMANT comes into play. 

I struggle with his actions, he has shown remorese, begged for my forgivness, takes so much blame and has cried in my arms telling me how guilty he feels, YET he doesn't want to change the situation! He still moved out, he still is talking and seeing OW, occasionally. Although he says he doesn't care if he continues with her or not. He will go out of his way on somedays to text me and see what I am doing, but then when I get too comfortable and we have a string of "good days" whether it be talking or spending time together, he seems to "overdose" on me and then backs off for a week or so.....My H and I have always had an extreamly active sexual relationship, and have been together for 18 years. He tells me he can see us "together" as sexual partners till we are 90.....but he doesn't want to live with me or be married to me anymore. 

I wish I didn't care so much about this man, worry about him and his feelings.....honestly he is like 2 people....one side of him is totally caring in his actions, comes over to help with snow shoveling, and HW help with our daughter, but them will say things to me like, "My intentions are still to file, I hope that doesn't hurt you" or "we are not a couple anymore"

I am not sure what happend with him but it is true when they say by the time they make that announcement they have had alot of time to emotionaly detach from the marriage which makes it seems as if they don't care. I know he does, but not enough to work towards a future.

And I know the reason he has not had a chance to see what he is missing is because I have not detached from him yet. I have still answered his calls, spent alot of time with him since he moved out, made love (sex for him I know) with him and had sleepovers since he moved out. I even brought him food when he had none ! He has no one anymore, I know his choice, but I love him and I didn't want him to feel abandoned~! FOR REAL! Can you say CO Dependant!?!?! 

HE ABANDONED ME AND OUR MARRIAGE AND OUR FAMILY AND OUR FUTURE!!!! 

I teter between ANGRY AND ACCEPTANCE these days!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

@NoWhere and angel - thanks. i like the pendulum image, and i know those memories aren't gone. i just need to parcel them up somewhere safe until I'm ready to face them, accept them as good, and move on.

@LovingWife - sounds pretty messed up, I have to say. I've come a ways now from the place where I would still want to be with my H. I'm still wearing my wedding ring, but more as a connection to what was than because of any hope. 

It's the way they treat you NOW that is the way forward - it's so disrespectful, they don't even know themselves and so they can't give you a straight answer, but that's not your problem. You have to stop letting him get under your skin. Seriously, you are worth more than that. I know I am too.

The sexual stuff is sometimes the hardest - you've seen this person at their most vulnerable and (hopefully) loving, and yet it's something that can so easily (for some) be "switched" to someone else. My H and I had sex once after he announced he wanted to split, on my request, and he said "I know I've caused you pain, so I want to give you pleasure too." Now remembering that makes me want to be sick - what an arrogant little prick. The sex was good and we both cried afterwards but it was the farthest thing from closure EVER. I'm ready to have a sexual relationship with someone who respects me enough to be honest, present, and supportive. Not a weak, bluffing, immature person like my H. 

He's actually out at the bar boasting to friends of mine that he's doing "so great" and that he's "been totally ok with the transgendered stuff since high school". My ass! 

Easier to move on from when they're being such ****s, but the question remains: will he be able to pull it together to be an adequate dad? She's going to need strong role models, not this bull****!

See, I'm doing better today, right angel?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Sounds like you're stronger today, yes, Lucy. :smthumbup:

Sounds like he's into full-on history changing mode for himself as well as for you as a couple. He'll have to take care of his issues. Don't worry about him.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

The day started off strong but at the end, now, I'm filled with anxiety.

I'm anticipating all the changes still to come and feel like the **** is about to hit the fan.

We still haven't found a way to exchange our daughter that works - I want NC, he doesn't really care. Any suggestions on how to do this? We don't have a mutual friend who can be the drop off for us I don't think.

I get excited thinking about starting fresh somewhere else but then wonder if I can really do it. Mostly I think his parents would freak out and cause problems. 

I feel lonely, too, and ready for some company. Yeah, that kind. Going to buy myself something nice to wear for V-day tomorrow.

Good night, y'all. Make sure you connect with someone you love tomorrow.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

((Hugs)) to you, Lucy. You'll get there, don't worry.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

V-Day:

Bought myself sexy underwear, wore them to an event (One Billion Rising!) that celebrated women and men and strength and love. Danced, drank, hula-hooped on stage and said a perfectly friendly hello to my H's best friend - first time I've seen him since the H left. 

I felt attractive and a little lighter and a little stronger. ****, is that guy not even slightly aware of how much he's giving up and how sorry he'll be.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Apparently not, and that means he's not worth wasting your energy on. Spend it on you!! Glad you had a good night!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Last night I had a terrible dream in which I was a fly on the wall for my H's new life with the mutual friend of ours that he's insinuated from the beginning. Everything including the name of their baby son was in there - god, the things our minds can do to us. I don't think they're together now but obviously my mind is still there.

Got to just drop it - focus on how much of a different person he's become, like now he's into Hare Krisha and all these things he never really mentioned in our relationship. Right, but I was repressing him all that time, trying to get him to be someone he's not. Well if he's a superficial ****, then all the more reason for me to move on and find someone who can really commit, relate and understand. 

I just worry for our daughter and for what the changes, the split in lifestyle between the two houses, and the potential for him to do god knows what in his new life that will be at the least, confusing and at worst, dangerous for my daughter.


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## Kaya62003 (Jan 8, 2013)

Lucy- my STBXH had a physical affair with his married co-worker (for all I know they are still involved) nonetheless DDAY was 12/8 and I filed for divorce in January. My daughter from another relationship who is 15, looked at him as a seragent dad. When we mutually agreed 12/8 for him to move out, he took all our furniture and the bed I was sleeping on. He didnt care and he just left. It was very hard for me to start over and pick up the pieces. And I certainly feel watching me fall apart tainted her feelings towards him. She internalizes her feelings, but she doesn't want him in her life anymore, because of the way he acted 2 months prior to DDAY and after he left. I feel she is angry and hurt, he started trying to text her and she refused to respond. Now he (9 weeks later) is trying to be in her life, asking her to dinner etc. 

So why your ex may not care right now about being in your daughters life, the novelty of his new life will eventually wear thin. And it'll probably be easier to co-parent. I think your daughter may get to the point where she detaches emotionally from him and will not want him in her life anymore. I hope he wakes up before that happens, but unfortunately that is his problem not yours. If his "new friends" are more important to him than his own flesh and blood, then that should show you what type of person he is & he isn't worthy of either of your love. You cannot make him be a dad. He has to make his own mistakes and suffer the consequences. 

As far as you are feeling, from my experience no contact/180 has started to help me detach emotionally. I decided 11 days ago that every time I speak to him, I have to start over. It has been nice not talking to him. I have not showed him how this has effected me. I just decided it is easier to move on, then condone his affair. I know if you try to move on (even if you have to fake it at first), you'll be happier in the long run. So I'd stop talking to him, unless it has to do with your daughter, finances or a divorce. Show him you don't care either. After awhile it'll become easier for you to actually not care. Make him wonder what you are doing or who you are hanging out with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

He does want to be in her life, but he's just not really playing a parental role, and I wonder if he's deferring to me (waiting for me to ask more of him) or if he's really so busy -- I mean, think about the time it frees up, not to have to do anything about meal prep, bedtimes, shuttling to and from activities, dealing with conflicts at school, let alone working together as PARENTS. 

I know my daughter is going to suffer and that eclipses my own suffering...that said, I'm so hurt and angry and shocked that the only thing I can do is a total 180 and hope it doesn't **** things up even more.

Like the fact we're still sharing the car...gotta do something about that...and then he locks his bike up next to our house, but away a little as if I won't recognize it, and I feel like screaming, I want a 180 from EVERY ONE OF YOUR POSSESSIONS, TOO, mister. I just don't want to see any signs that he exists, right now. Seeing people we both know in town is painful enough.

MY daughter is enjoying her time with him, limited as it is, as far as I can tell. But that could be because he moved into a communal house with a resident 8 year old girl, and so the two of them play when she's "with him."


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Update: 

I took a solo trip to the Coast to lay low, rest and visit a few friends. Perhaps to feel out if I could really move back here, too - it's somewhere I lived with the H for almost 5 years and still have a good network of friends.

Ugh, though, all the memories of our time...I was at a craft fair and was thinking of him so much, and the dreams i had that we would be working craft fairs together in the future...so i texted him to say that i missed him.

He responded with "i miss you sometimes too" - ack, I think I'd rather he ignored it or was mad at me for reaching out. I'm so sure of the things I didn't like in our relationship, but I can't believe that there's nothing left to repair when we can both acknowledge we miss each other. Even if it's only sometimes.

I feel so much anxiety thinking about him moving on and building a life without me, and of me doing the same. I think on some level I thought, that if we broke up, that we would have to be in each others lives pretty heavily because of our daughter and our shared dreams and values. Now I don't see how either option is possible. 

Today I really do just want to hold him again. I can't believe I don't get to do that.


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Lucy
I feel the same way almost every day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

sick sick sick to my stomach, that's how it feels.

will nothing make a difference to him?


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

I feel the same way, too, and have been through all stages of the emotional wringer -- now just waiting for the Sword of Damocles -- the final dagger to my heart -- to drop, that is receiving notice from my H that he is filing for divorce. The limbo is the worst, for the left behind spouse who refuses to do the dirty work of sticking the fork in the dead/dying marriage that only the dumped spouse was interested in salvaging :-(

Hang in there, you are not alone!

Best, - A12


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

Agreed, A12. The limbo is the worst. 

That and the Silence.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm further out than all of you, but when I was in your position, I felt the same way you do now. 

However, knowing what I do _now_, (and not just my own situation, but being on TAM nearly a year, being IC for two years and support groups for 1 1/2 years), I would recommend doing what _you_ can to take control of the situation. If you're sure there is going to be a divorce because your spouse is not showing any signs to the contrary, then get your ducks in a row and file. Don't wait in limbo for the sword to fall on you. That stress is not good for you. The divorce will happen, either way, but you can control when. You can start planning how it will all work out best for you and for your kids if you have them. There are many people on TAM who ended up filing, even though they were the BS's. Just to end the limbo, and take control of their lives back.

A divorce can be cancelled up to the time it's granted. And even after, you're free to remarry each other. But the limbo and wondering and worry will end. Not the way you'd hoped, but maybe you'll find that making a decision and acting on it will help you.

Something to consider.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Update:
> 
> Ugh, though, all the memories of our time...I was at a craft fair and was thinking of him so much, and the dreams i had that we would be working craft fairs together in the future...so i texted him to say that i missed him.
> 
> ...


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Just heading "home" from my time away. Still feel anxious and sick to my stomach, as the question remains: do I stay in the same town as him? Or do I leave? What is my timeline for deciding?

It's early morning, I'm sad and regretful and I just want to be able to talk with him about what went wrong, and say again that I think we could work things out, or at least, know that he hears me about the transgender stuff. I can't see just ending this with so much misunderstanding.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy - 

I'm sorry it is a rough moring for you, but glad you got to take a break and get away. Pardon me if this was discussed in past threads, but I can't discern from this one (or may have missed it), what transgender stuff are you referring to? Just trying to understand your situation better.

I hope you'll try to stay "no contact" and just journal or post here instead, and do something nice for yourself today!

Warmly,- A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

A12 - the transgender stuff was alluded to in other posts - he came out to me as such, this summer, less than a month after i miscarried. it has been in and out of our relationship as an issue for years, in some way si knew and was relieved but was also very aware of what it could mean for our family, and didn't want it to end. also wondered what i was attracted to and what i was not. anyway, it was a huge deal, but "somehow" got pushed back under the rug for a while...then through the fall he was crossdressing more, i was asking more questions, he wasn't answering. so it was tense and loaded and surely a big part of the split...but he won't acknowledge it. 

so i'm left wondering what the hell, how much was relationship stuff, how much was his need for freedom to explore, and how sad i am that i didn't get the chance to show some support and for us to get support through this. i believe that with some support i would be willing to go the path with him of exploring his gender....

but now he's playing the free-spirited single life in our small town and i don't want to go back to it. i want to be a family with him. ****, it's the truth, all attempts at 180 notwithstanding. why is it so hard to let go?

i'm thinking i want to meet with our MC again and at least ask him some questions, try to get some answers, at least hear where he's at and if he's totally cold and clueless like the last time, maybe that will help me make some important decisions?

this is just heartbreaking, i hate it.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Lucy -- just an idea here. Have you looked on the web to see if there are any specific support forums for spouses of transgendered people? I would think that there are some very specific issues and feelings that you're dealing with that most of us on TAM aren't going to be familiar with. Not telling you to leave TAM by any means -- but just to find a second place that may be able to help you with that specific part of your relationship.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Angel - yes I have, there's not a lot. I've had some support here in my community, and one site out of the UK. It's funny because some of the issues are so parallel to what I read about here - and by no means am I saying we didn't have "regular" relationship issues. But yeah, this one is a curve ball and at least if he would acknowledge it, we coudl deal with it properly. I mean, he's still my D's father and I do want him involved...if he could stop the playboy behaviour and own up to his choices and tell the truth...I'd feel a whole lot better moving ahead, with or without him.

Maybe these are his true colours, though, bad behaviour and all, right? As much as I want to be understanding I have my limits.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Right -- there are definitely behaviors and actions of his that are no different from any other WS here on TAM. I was thinking about your feelings about offering him support through the process, etc. Sorry that there isn't much out there to help you.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I'm at the point where in the next little while (I mean long while, which is what 2 months will feel like) I need to decide about moving to another town or staying put, for my daughter's stability. And if I leave and still offer my support, if it's meant to work out in the best possible way, it will, right? I hate the feeling of staying in town just to give our relationship the space to become something better. Right now it f-ing sucks.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

((((Oh, Lucy))))! I am so sorry for the heartbreak of your situation -- how terribly painful for you and your family. I imagine he does not mean to hurt or betray you, but is struggling mightily with his identity. It cannot be easy, because of all the stigma and judgement that would come with embracing a transgender identity -- even more so, perhaps than coming out as gay (the latter having at least gained a little more social acceptance today). My heart goes out to both of you and your family!

You deserve the chance to sort this out in MC, for sure, to work through it and determine what you both want and need.

Like many of us, I am all too familiar with the challenge of detaching and letting go emotionally when we are so bonded as spouses to a loved one who has meant everything to us. I have learned that detaching does not mean I have to stop loving that person -- but I cannot make my own well being and emotional health dependent on them. I slip back into feeling I cannot be happy without him, but have to constantly pratice the discipline of reminding myself it isn't so. I have been happy in the past before I ever met him, and I will be happy again no matter which way things go with him.

FWIW, I'm reading this book on my Kindle, and am finding it helpful:
"Let Go Now: Embracing Detachment," by Karen Casey (on Amazon at Let Go Now: Embracing Detachment: Karen Casey: Amazon.com: Kindle Store).

Please be good to yourself, and know that you will get through this and build the best life possible for yourself, however this turns out.

Sending you Courage and Warm Wishes, - A12


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## Lovingwife315 (Dec 10, 2012)

I think I will look into that book as well.....having a really hard time detaching completley!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks, A12. 

I was happy before I met him, but how does it get better when I will always have the memory of "us", not to mention the incredible hurt and betrayal to get over? The awful "what could have been"?

BTW, he is making it out like it's not about the TG issues at all, so it makes it kind of hard to address. 

I can't stand the thought of him begin happy and integrated into our new community (we just moved here a year ago), living on a piece of land like we planned on doing, and with me so shut out of his life completely! Not very loving of me, but I am having such a hard time considering that I could actually still love him and let it all go. 

He wants to take our daughter to visit his parents (a 12-hour drive away) in the spring. I don't want him to, for no good reason, just possessiveness and the inability to accept that he will go and see them (I like his parents) without me.

What a slog. I want to do something to shake things up, but all my ideas involve freaking out emotionally, so that's probably not a good thing to pursue...


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy - The only way I know to avoid driving myself crazy with wanting things to go back to the way they were when we were happy is to realize that that guy I married and that relationship are gone. Even if I should get another chance with him, it would be starting all over on new footing and re-building from scratch -- there is no waving a magic wand to bring back happier days of the past. As to the past, it is nice to enjoy fond memories, but the more I put my focus there, the more miserable I make myself. I am not saying it is easy, but the best way to feel more at peace is to stay in the present moment a day at a time, affirm and cultivate the positives in your life as you look to your future -- you are going on a grand adventure of self discovery!

Also, you talk of him staying on and being happy -- if you are going to split, you should equally well be the one to stay in that house, and have him be thew one to move out. Why not you be the one to stay and be happily integrated into your community with new social ties, activities, etc. you can develop?

Just a thought. Take care and hang in there!

Warmly, - A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Ugh, torturing myself with thoughts of him spending next Christmas with new friends...this because I'm thinking ahead and trying to plan, how will we split the holidays? Will we? I don't want him to have her, I want to be with my own group of friends or family. I know I have 10 months to let things just settle and happen...

A12 - I feel like I can't stay here because it's such a small community and I'd have to see him around, and I kind of just feel like a fresh start. I hate that he can just proceed on his merry way, but I won't stay out of spite, either!


I drove back to our town tonight and feel so sad because I love the winter here - where I am thinking about moving (more friends and support), it's rainy all winter. Yuck. I love the snow. 

One thought that came to me on the drive and it's helping me feel a little more sane: Whatever trauma and unspoken stresses that have led him to this drastic decision, still, are his actions those of a person I respect and want to be with? What kind of a person does that - leaves while his wife is visiting family, then tells her he's got a relationship "on the table" with a mutual friend, and starts moving out in the middle of the night without telling me? Not a person I want to know. No matter how "different" he can be with others. 

Now, how do I accept that a person like that can be in my daughter's life? Cause I have big issues with trust and don't know about his judgement these days. Think in the next few weeks I'm going to have to gather forces and put together a sep. agreement that gives me custody.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

It's an angry morning. Up through the night just feeling enraged!!

Good thing I have a yoga class to go to...

I'm feeling a real reluctance to have my D spend any time with her dad. A little guilty about this. Any thoughts on why, what I can do to accept the little time he does share with her?

Also I'm ready to hash out a sep agreement with him, and I want custody. And advice for going ahead? We could try to do it by email first, and there's a mediator I've met with who would see us if we couldn't agree.

In some ways I just want this all to be over...ha, ha, right?


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Lucy - How was your yoga? I hope it helped you feel better. I had a brutal workout today and felt better for it  Sending all good wishes.

Cheers, A-12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Yoga did help, as did a good visit with a friend, and dinner for me and D with her family. I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. But will I be angry forever? I am still so angry.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I feel now like I really sucked at the 180 up to now - I'll admit I'm sending him this art project that I'd been working on for ages, I really want him to have it, been sending the completed cards every couple of weeks, no note or anything. 

But maybe I should up to ante? Not even for anything other than my own healing and to know I've done the 180 "properly". So save the rest of the art for when I'm over it and can send it to him in a big lump of "take that! i'm over it!"?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

UPDATE: this means war!

He's emailed me after three months to (finally) say that he wants to see our daughter more than 1.5 days per week. However I realize I don't want that at all. 

Also he wants me to start paying half the rent at our house; he's been paying it all up to now. I've been the "stay at home" spouse and while I'm working now, I can't afford even half. I'm waiting for a rental subsidy to come through, and have been able to pay $200 this month. 

Here we go...get my fighting gloves on. He's the one who left with no discussion, no consideration, just another relationship "on the table"...so I'm not going to let him get what he wants.

Wish me strength for this next stage of things...I hope I am able to stay composed.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Good luck, Lucy. Fight for yourself and D. You've got a lot to back you up. Do you have an attorney? Do you have an organization that can provide legal help to people with lower income? I'd look into that. You might be able to find someone who can give you advice on how to draw up a parenting plan, and to make sure you're getting all that's due to you and D.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I've seen a mediator but not legal aid. Angel can you remind me of all that I have to "back me up"? I'm reading through old emails now -- found a very articulate letter I wrote to him from the summer about how much I wanted to sort out our ****, and I was clear and kind. Good to know I have that balance in me.


I wonder what else I should be doing? He hasn't done anything "wrong" other than leaving for a posOW...but he expects me to be sympathetic about his "financial responsibilities"?!!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I was speaking specifically about your not wanting him to see too much of D. He hasn't been a very involved parent for several months, and has left you to handle everything. He's not really living with the reality of what it means to be a parent, like you've had to. He's going to have to be hit with the fact that after this many years, and the fact that he left, and you are working now, but not making enough to support yourself, he just might have to pay spousal maintenance (at least for a while) and also support for D. Do you still have any of your posts on here that tell how he wasn't seeing her? I don't know how legally admissible they are in your state, but they are dated and some states do allow things like text messages, emails, etc., as evidence. Go through emails between you and see if you can find times where you've brought up him seeing her more, and him saying he's too busy or whatever. 

And walking out on a marriage for a posOW is wrong. It may not be against the law of the land, per se, but enough people realize the damage it does that it may very well be taken into consideration from a legal standpoint when deciding the division of assets, who's paying bills, etc.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

It might not hurt to take some time and start looking at your state's divorce laws. Many states have their entire state code online. You can search for laws and statutes regarding divorce. Some states also have their case law online, so you can search for divorce cases in your state, and narrow them down to cases where child custody, or maintenance, or things like that were disputed and decided by a higher court. Case law is just as important as statutes in things like divorce, from what I was told by someone I know at our law school. 

Do as much as you can to be proactive. Don't feel guilty about going after what you deserve and what you need.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Angel, I feel like you've got my back. It feels great. I'm going to bed now. Thank you so much.

But damn, I may have deleted the texts where I say "You need to tell me how much you want to see her"...well, and he didn't respond. So I guess I can't keep or delete texts that were never sent  But hopefully his dragging heels provide enough evidence (though good lord, i hope we don't end up in court.)


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

PS. I DEFINITELY don't feel guilty.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

No, I hope you don't either. But being prepared is never a bad thing. 

Good night!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Today I didn't check my email all day - was scared to see what the h's response was to my email that was to the point, fairly brutal about what i will and will not accept, and a little bit mean. 

So I don't know where he's at but surprisingly my anxiety level was lower today than in a while. 

I decided to let go of the decision to move or not, for now. 

I've been asked to work more at the one of my two jobs that I like better, so that could shift things in a positive way.

And I've found the most amazing bodyworker (deep tissue massage and rebalancing) who is really empathetic and gives me a 1.5 hour treatment for real cheap. She and I had a good talk about what it really takes to heal and move on...

So I feel good but I'm nervous, knowing a big fight is potentially to come.

I just wish he would actually disappear, at this point.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

You got some great positive things to focus on, and you made an important discovery about your lower anxiety today. He may not disappear in reality, but if you can take your focus off of him as much as possible, it will be the next best thing, and you'll probably still reap a lot of those same rewards. 

Wow, a deep tissue massage sounds amazing. Even a shallow tissue massage at this point.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

i don't do shallow


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

*Re: The panic and pain is STRONGER!*

HEEELLLLPPP!

angel, you were so right. tonight i just got a cheque dropped off in my mailbox by my X (that's right he's my X!) for half the rent...he has paid the rent for two months and then just abruptly decided, three days before it's due, that he isn't going to keep doing that.

We already had an email agreement that I would pay $200 towards rent in March, but apparently that wasn't really an agreement with him. 

SO, what should I do? I can't make him pay if he doesn't have the money, I certainly don't have the money, and I am shocked that he would go this far.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear this, Lucy!! Are you on good terms with your landlord? Maybe if you pay what you have (his 1/2 and your $200), and explain the situation, it will buy you some time. Next, I would try to get some kind of binding legal instrument for temporary support in place ASAP. 

He's not even thinking about how this will affect his daughter. If he doesn't have the money to continue your agreement, how does he expect to get partial custody? 

How soon can you start working the extra hours at your job? That might be another thing you can tell your landlord. 

Sounds like circle the wagons time. Talk to your office of public assistance to see what you have to have in place to get food stamps or rent or heat assistance if you need it. You may not qualify right now, but it doesn't hurt to know when you can make the call. Seeing as you've already lived apart for several months, you might qualify as a single mother by now, I don't know.

Don't panic. Just try to take steps and be proactive. It will make you feel better to be doing something.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I can't really work any more than I already am. I'm waiting to hear back about my rental assistance application.

I do have options. Mostly, though, I'm so upset that he's taken it in this direction. Then says, "if this makes things much much worse, that's your choice to react in that way." 

Truth be told, I did have faint hope that in many many years we could have some forgiveness between us. Now I'm not so sure. But I've been bumped up to the high road, that's for sure.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Lucy - How are you doing? Thinking of you, and wishing you courage, strength and healing.

Best, A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks A12. I'm not quite a wreck, but I'm so edgy and still shocked. Well, shocked anew by this latest development. 

It hurts to even write about it. I kind of can't believe this has become my life. And how angry I am that I've let someone as shallow and pathetic as him, take over my life now that he's gone. 

I'm not going to let it happen but I'm afraid I'm going to lose more time with my daughter in the process. 

I'm just so horrified, I want to erase him entirely from my life and history and can't believe he has made such a stain on my life, has so completely disregarded our marriage and myself as human being and the mother of his child. I'm disgusted. Ugh.

And he has the nerve to write me an email saying he's "concerned for me" and is "having a hard time knowing that I'm struggling." WTF does he expect? This is on the day our rent is due and he pulled out of paying for what he agreed on. I wish I could have done the 180 more fully so that he didn't even know I'm struggling. But I hope he feels guilty about this forever.

I will eventually move on and be stronger from this, I know. But it feels like hell.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Thanks A12. I'm not quite a wreck, but I'm so edgy and still shocked. Well, shocked anew by this latest development.
> 
> It hurts to even write about it. I kind of can't believe this has become my life. And how angry I am that I've let someone as shallow and pathetic as him, take over my life now that he's gone.
> 
> ...


Blame shifting is a deep dark hole to nowhere.

Don't indulge him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

@spun - what do you mean by blameshifting? 

i feel like i'm in a dark hole...need to claw myself out...


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Anybody there? I'm heading into the week from hell - I'm so tired, I just want to sleep or at least keep my daughter home form school and lounge all day...read books, snuggle, make cookies. It feels like a gringd to get up and get to work when all is falling apart.

This is the week where I finally lead my ex with a ****ing leash, to the mediator's. HE says he's been waiting for me to initiate, since I asked for some space and time to figure things out. But then he also felt the need to suddenly "force the issue" by pulling out of our rent agreement (not signed sadly) that he would pay most of the rent this month. 

I'm scared, unsure how to approach mediation, and I want to be a hardball and stay detatched. But I haven't had eye contact with him in more than a month, haven't spoken in almost two months. All these ****ing texts and emails. 

Any advice or boosts of confidence out there for me?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hey Lucy. I really don't, unfortunately. I don't know if this is even allowed, but could you bring someone along with you for moral support? Not a lawyer, but just a friend? Do you have the things you're asking for written out? I've found when I need to communicate specific things in a situation in which I think I might be on my game, I just write it all out, as completely as possibli - almost like a script I can follow. It might be better in other situations to look him in the and have a certain demeanor, but right now, you and D have some pretty basic things you need taken care of. Having it written will also help you if/when he tries to pull you off course.

I think it also helps the mediator to know what your priorities are. 

I've always been grateful when I've taken the time to prepare and write things out. I know I'll bring up what's important to me, and it takes a little pressure off.

Ex and I were originally going to try mediation, but things got too contentious. I honestly don't know if you always have to face the other spouse. The mediatormight shuttle back and forth between the two of you. But don't worry about what he'll think of you. Focus on communicating with the mediator, and you'll do fine. Believe in yourself, Lucy. You are a very strong woman, and you can do this. Is this a court-appointed mediator, or a private one? Perhaps you can find someone near you who's gone thru the process & they can give you a little low-down on what to expect. Losing some of that uncertainty will probably help you feel loads better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

i'm sorry - I should go to bed, lol. I just looked at the start of my post, folowing after your question. I meant that I didn't have anything to share about mediation, not that I didn't think you could do it, and didn't want to try toboost your confidence. Oy! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy - I hear you, this is so stressful and aggravating and I struggle with the detachment thing, too. The notion of letting go with love is so hard when I have not been able to severe the emotional bond I still feel with my H. I agree with AP's advice -- write down your top goals and priorities so you will feel prepared going into the session with the mediator. It is self-protection time, so prepare to be calm but firm and determined to have a fair agreement in terms of custody, finances and property.

When is the meeting happening, and is the purpose just to set up a legal separation agreement or is this the framework for moving towards divorce?

My H and I have all our financial/logistic issues settled and do not have children -- so I don't know why he is still fence-sitting after 11 months. If he doesn't make a move one way or the other in the next few months, I will go ahead and file for my own sanity. I think that as long as we remain separated but still married, there will always be that shred of hope inside me that things might turn around. I realize I should not allow that shred of hope to keep me on the hook, emotionally, but it does.

Try to take it a day at a time and stay focused in the present moment -- and also be gentle with yourself and be sure to get yourself some pampering (mani/pedi or a massage) once in a while. Love yourself, and be good to yourself! Wishing you courage and strength.

Cheers, - A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks to you both for your words. I'm so emotional right now!!!! Yes it's partly hormones, but couldn't I get a break from that for a few months?!

Mediator is to work out all the issues related to our daughter - child support, access, perhaps some parenting, and spousal support. 

My ex is playing this "I'm concerned about you" patronizing bull**** as if he's not the cause of the problems. He can't even say sorry.

I know we could have the mediator talk to us both on the phone. I know I in some way want to punish my ex for how horrible this has all been. I'm not sure how to detach form the anger and hurt but I'm going to try. 

I'm trying hard to remember the things I didn't like about our relationship but I'm still in the shock and grief and being hit every day by 1000 triggers of the things we were going to do. I just can't believe him ad all of this.

Going for a fast walk to try to pump some of this anger out.

Thanks again y'all.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Unfortunate update:

Now he is saying he lost his job. Was "laid off with very short notice". I don't buy it for a second, but am shocked he would actually lie or craft things so that his income is lowered at this crucial time of financial negotiation.

He's really doing a good job of alienating me, though. I hate the thought of giving in to the hurt and anger and putting it out there to his new circle of friends and opportunities in this town. Can't keep it in, either. 

Never has "rising above" been such a near-impossible task. Any tips on how to not let the emotions take over?

Happy Women's Day, too. Be strong!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh, Lucy! The last thing you need to hear right now. Do you know where he was working? Any way to verify what he's saying? I think the courts are not looking away as much when it seems that someone is 'losing a job' in order to pay less support. 

It is a tough line to walk, I know. There's no reason you should have to appear happy through all of this, but I know you feel like you need to balance how you present yourself in front of people who know him. I think it's OK to make it known that you don't like this, and that you have been treated unfairly. That promises were broken. It can be done in a matter-of-fact way that doesn't come off as vindictive. He made a promise to you, you made decisions based on it, and then it was pulled without notice and it's affecting you and your daughter very badly. 

He did this before he said he was 'laid off,' so he can't get away with linking the two. 

The whole thing involves a bit of a split personality. If you have a close circle you can vent to (or us here on TAM), get it out. Scream, cry, throw things, put up a dartboard with his picture on it, etc., and then try your best to be 'calm, cool, and collected' when you're in public. 

You are strong. You will get through this -- but the path to the other side is pretty rocky right now. Just focus on the finish line. ((hugs))


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

he says it's because he didn't pass his performance review. i find it to be a bit suspicious, if not bull****ty. he says his boss with confirm. god, would his boss lie for him, or let him go for less than honourable reasons?

even if it's just to pursue some of his other work (self employed art), he's not really in a position financially to do that. 

i'm pretty glad this isn't happening in the context of our marriage, though, to be honest.

but today was still a very hard day. i feel so deep in grief.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Lucy I have been reading your posts and its terrible what your going through. With him loosing his job at this time it should make you be able to detatch yourself even more. Especially if you feel that there is a possibility of something underhanded going on. Stay strong!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

now i find out he spent the morning chatting with my closest friend in town...while the kids were playing. so she knows all the stuff from my heart, what the hell did they have to talk about for 3 hours?

and if the kids overheard?

great, just what i need, to not trust and be mad at one of my few friends here.


when will the drama stop getting more dramatic?

my stomach is in stiches and i feel like throwing up. my friend said, "i am sorry you're feeling weird about it. i come from kindness, that is all."

i feel SO WEIRD ABOUT IT, to say the least.

ERGHHGHGGHGH!!!


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> now i find out he spent the morning chatting with my closest friend in town...while the kids were playing. so she knows all the stuff from my heart, what the hell did they have to talk about for 3 hours?
> 
> and if the kids overheard?
> 
> ...


Lucy - had some similar experiences. You'll find unfortunately some do "take sides". Depends on how close they are is how much I've let bother me. I pretty much wrote off a majority of our LA friends as they were STBX's first and I've actually received a "nastygram" from one. Here, I'm trying to "ally" the ones I want with a calm, non-vindictive demeanor and driving the nail in the coffin with some select details of my "concerns of STBX's actions like (fill in the blank) being detrimental to the boys". Trying really hard to not come off like a bitter loser  It's another unforseen negative effect. Stay strong!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

soca - but she really is my friend first, made that clear to me, and with recent events she's expressed such anger at him, too. when i dropped my daughter off for the sleepover (ex was to just pick her up, not meet her at the park for 3 hours), she said, "i'm not going to say anything to him." WTF. THREE HOURS? with my daughter possibly overhearing whatever they were talking about?

with me not really wanting to know what they talked about, but how can i not wonder now? ****. and she's not such a close friend that i can't see losing her over this. she thinks it's not big deal. our daughters are best friends, though.

FRIGGGGGGGG.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> soca - but she really is my friend first, made that clear to me, and with recent events she's expressed such anger at him, too. when i dropped my daughter off for the sleepover (ex was to just pick her up, not meet her at the park for 3 hours), she said, "i'm not going to say anything to him." WTF. THREE HOURS? with my daughter possibly overhearing whatever they were talking about?
> 
> with me not really wanting to know what they talked about, but how can i not wonder now? ****. and she's not such a close friend that i can't see losing her over this. she thinks it's not big deal. our daughters are best friends, though.
> 
> FRIGGGGGGGG.


That sucks and does seem inappropriate to me also. Maybe she doesn't want to "pick sides". Since you two are so close, I would not be hesitant to let her know you were really disturbed/bothered/pick a non-threatening word by the situation and use concern for your daughter as the reason - who's going to argue with or look down on that? This is where, unforunately, you'll have to walk the fine line between coming across as the "woman scorned" and swaying your friend back to your side. It's politics in a way.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

i don't care. i am scorned. i don't really have it in me to sway her back to my side, if she's going to be like that, i don't need her as a friend. all my emotional energy these days is taken up with JUST. TRYING. TO. GET. THROUGH. THE. DAY. I can't believe this. She knows I don't need this right now. Not a good friend, whatever she says.

Thanks for the sympathy, Soca.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> i don't care. i am scorned. i don't really have it in me to sway her back to my side, if she's going to be like that, i don't need her as a friend. all my emotional energy these days is taken up with JUST. TRYING. TO. GET. THROUGH. THE. DAY. I can't believe this. She knows I don't need this right now. Not a good friend, whatever she says.
> 
> Thanks for the sympathy, Soca.


And at the end of the day, you'll know who your true friends are. And I know the feeling of "what is this BS I have to deal with now?" And ultimately, our emotional resources are so tapped by 'just getting through the day' that some of this crap has to slide. Just focus on your daughter and you. I'm hoping you have some dircetion by now reagrding custody. I think that should be your main priority.

Please keep up posted, Lucy, and take care!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

ugh. said friend and i have been FB messaging all day about this. i keep trying to say how hurt and confused i am, and that i don't understand why they would need to talk for so long.

she is totally not sorry, thinks i shouldn't be angry (actually, she said "maybe it's time you look at your anger issues"), and proceeded to tell me how she sees things from his perspective and thinks i should appreciate that he has been willing to pay half the rent, etc.

then says she's compassionate to both of us, doesn't take sides, and basically thinks i'm being ridiculous for feeling upset. 

"i didn't know i wasn't allowed to talk to him,"

as if we're still in junior high school. 

i need to just put this aside...

but i am also still in SHOCK. the thought of my ex sitting on a park bench chatting with one of my friends, even if they weren't talking about me at all, is so hard to handle. I still can't believe he just up and left. I need help out of this shock!

(ps. it's four months exactly since he told me he wanted to leave).


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

How's the custody agreement coming? And were you still looking to possibly move?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Well with his pulling out of paying rent in March, I had to realize he was not going to just ask me to see the mediator with him. Ha! So I've encouraged him to be in touch and after he sees the mediator, we can meet together. SO not looking forward to it. I have a friend who is a lawyer who is giving me advice...I don't qualify for legal aid but can't afford a lawyer here in town.

I don't know what to think. Do I want full custody more now because I'm angry and feel threatened? He's just lost his job (one of three), too - I'm worried he'll try to get more time with D to pay less or no child support. 

Also yes, I'm thinking of moving, all the time. Especially now that I have friends who seem more interested in "not taking sides" than with actually being a friend. I don't have many in this town, we're pretty new here still, so yes, it's on my mind. I don't think my ex will let it happen, though. And I'm not sure it's totally what I want.

AAAHHHH!


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Well with his pulling out of paying rent in March, I had to realize he was not going to just ask me to see the mediator with him. Ha! So I've encouraged him to be in touch and after he sees the mediator, we can meet together. SO not looking forward to it. I have a friend who is a lawyer who is giving me advice...I don't qualify for legal aid but can't afford a lawyer here in town.
> 
> I don't know what to think. Do I want full custody more now because I'm angry and feel threatened? He's just lost his job (one of three), too - I'm worried he'll try to get more time with D to pay less or no child support.
> 
> ...


OK - can you get full custody with a liberal visitation schedule for him? As you decribe it, he comes across as pretty flaky. That way you'd be in control but he could still actively co-parent. Not sure how the child support works as that's not an issue I'm dealing with.

Also, have yourself designated as school placement parent with a clause that if you move, D comes with you. Still could be petitioned in case of a move but gives you a leg up.

This is what I would spend my time/resources on. Do you have family that can help you with lawyer's fees? I really don't want you getting screwed and he sounds a little too "free-spirited" to trust fully with your D's best interests.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Lucy, that truly sucks about the 'friend' situation. If you have been sharing how you feel through this, and now she says she doesn't understand, etc., etc. -- then you know you can't trust her with anything. And that totally bites, if she's been part of an already too-small support network. 

Not to sound prejudiced in any way, but would STBXH's transgender situation be something you can use as an illustration of why you need to be parent with primary, if not full, custody? Is he having reassignment surgery? Even if not, this process is going to be taking up a lot of his emotional energy, and not leave much for real involvement in D's day-to-day life. It isn't about judging what he's doing, it's about the reality of how it all affects D.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angel, soca...thanks for hanging in there with me.


latest development is the friend who hung out and chatted with my ex (only because our daughters were playing at the park, but they got into a big discussion about our failed relationship) -- expects a sorry from me, for getting upset. 

I can't do it. I was upset and I told her so. Why am I having a hard time wrapping my head around being firm? I shouldn't have to justify why it made me feel uncomfortable (actually, sick to my stomach) to know that the two of them were discussing "us." she doesn't want to take sides but it sounds like she's really willing to see his perspective and doesn't understand why I take issue with that.

Am I way off base in being upset here? I feel so strongly that I think our friendship might be over. She wants me to apologize. 

WOW. 


In other internal developments...doing a bunch of reading on break-ups, how to get through them, effects of divorce on kids, etc.


I realize so much about the things I did wrong, or could have done better. But I was also willing to talk about these and work on them - and it could be some of the things I feel badly about, he wouldn't even mention as issues. I really don't know. The game in my head is wearing me out though and I need to stop. 

One thing I realized in reading another thread -- I know an issue for my ex was that he thought I had a mental disorder... do all people who are moody get this label? I truly don't think I do, but I would overhear him talking to friends about it and get upset. Or he told me once his mom was concerned that I couldn't take care of our daughter (never an issue, honestly). And then I found a book on Borderline Personality Disorder in his bag, too. Any outrage I'd express made it seem like I was defending myself. I was just so shocked that he would try to pathologize what my valid concerns or moods were. Like the fact I like to sleep in (til 8 at the latest) instead of get up at 6 like him, means something is wrong with me.

Even recently, in an email, he expressed "concern" for me - this triggers me back to those accusations he had that I was mentally unwell. Like the fact that I'm overloaded emotionally from the break-up and financial stress mean I have a mental health "issue".

Plus, my brother does have bipolar disorder and is on medication, so I think my ex somehow thought it runs in the family. Which maybe it does for some, but it's not the case with me. I wanted him to acknowledge my feelings rather than make them out to be a disorder. And it was extra insensitive of him to make it an issue when he knows about my brother. 

See, aren't I sounding defensive? Do we all get pegged as mentally unfit when we have moods (which are usually about actual, tangible stresses or frustrations in a day)?

Maybe I'll never know, or maybe I'll just have to wait for the next relationship to see how it goes... (dare I ask for someone who might actually try to cheer me up if I'm grumpy?)

So like the transgender issue for me, I think my ex saw our whole relationship through the "mental disorder suspicion" lens and that it made him less attentive to other, REAL issues we could have been working on. 

Angel : I don't want to bring the TG issues up in mediation at all. It feels like playing dirty, especially since he has refused to talk about it with me. And though I do want full custody, I am so far trusting enough of his abilities as a parent to not introduce doubt in that way. He's not transitioning, not even close, and may never. The problem being I don't really know where he's at, so hard to make accusations or make decisions based on it. However, it's on my mind to be wary and hence have more control of my daughter's environment.

Thanks for reading this long rambly post!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Let me try this again -- I was in the middle of a long reply, and somehow I hit a key and my browser window closed. It was totally brilliant, too, would have solved all your problems!!  

Seriously, though, Lucy, you've hit upon some things that I'm sure will resonate with quite a few people here. The whole "I'm concerned about your mental health" crap. 

The biggest thing to realize is this: Someone who is walking out on you is not really interested in whether you're OK or not. Any 'concern' they express is an exercise in control. By sending you off to worry about how you feel, what you do, what you say, etc., they can be free to make whatever decisions they want and take whatever actions they want. You object? Get upset? Out comes the 'mental illness' accusation again.

If he truly cared about his spouse, the mother of his child, he wouldn't be doing this to you. He wouldn't be adding more on to you if he thought you were truly mentally ill. That's evil.

No, he knows full well that it pushes your buttons, so that's why he does it. Of course you're on emotional overload as your marriage is ending against your will, and your whole life is being affected by that. You'd be ill if you _weren't_ on emotional overload sometimes!!

You are reading and investigating and learning about yourself; trying to work on yourself. Another sign that you don't have something like a personality disorder. People with PDs do not seek help. They might see a doctor for something vague like depression, but they don't go into therapy to look at their own actions in their lives. 

Yes, these labels do get thrown around -- sometimes by people who themselves have these problems. My ex did this to me a lot. And I was really starting to worry that he was right. And I asked my IC multiple times if she was _sure_ I wasn't Borderline. She thought it was laughable, given how much I was working hard on myself, and how often she was seeing me (twice a week at the beginning when things were at their most raw). She said there was no way I could have given no hint through all that if I truly was BPD.

That's not to say that some of us don't display traits that are common to people with BPD, but to a much lesser degree. Fear of abandonment, sure -- if you truly had experienced abandonment, and it looks like you're gonna get it again, it's kind of natural that it might trigger some stuff from the past. It doesn't mean you're borderline. As she told me, there are only so many traits. It's not just what traits we have, it's the number and combination of them, the degree and under what circumstances they come out. That can be the difference between understandable emotional overload and a personality disorder.

But in your STBXH's case, please, consider the source. He wants you to doubt yourself. Don't buy into it. His concern is not real nor healthy.

As to the TG issue, I wasn't sure how far along that was or how in the open the discussion was. I can understand why you don't feel you can bring it up.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks for your thoughtful post, as always Angel 

Just spent 2 hours composing a response to the friend who thinks I shouldn't be upset that she spoke at length with my ex about our relationship... we'll see where that goes. I know I'm reacting emotionally but of all my friends I think she's in the best place to understand that. If she doesn't...hmmm...not good times ahead.

But I can't worry about it anymore now. Like soca advised...time to focus on getting through mediation.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Today's update: ANXIETY! welcome to my life. 

Mediation is not going to happen until April. X has confirmed he will pay half the rent here until June.

Friend who spoke with the ex about "us" -- we had a totally awful encounter when I went to pick my daughter up from her house. Our girls are friends... but I didn't want to talk. She interpreted it as rudeness and proceeded to get mad at me. I felt on the defensive but also tried to assert WHY I felt weird about the whole situation. She totally doesn't get it, she was actually seeming to taunt me with things like "You have a hard time saying sorry, don't you?" It felt really mean, she was almost sneering when she said it. 

I don't know what to do. She still expects an apology and I am really still upset that she feels so justified in having talked to him, or that she can't at least understand why I'm upset. And she sees his perspective and I just can't handle that right now. 

Gosh, as an adult, I've never "ended" a friendship. I don't really want to put I feel about 12 years old and emotionally unable to make a decision. 

Any advice?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Well, Lucy, that's great news about X agreeing to pay half the rent for a few more months. That's got to be a bit of a load off. Too bad that the mediation will be stretched out however. But maybe the extra time will allow you to get things a little more settled in your life, find out a little more how the process might go and what you can ask for.

As to that woman -- jeez. She's the one acting like a 12-year-old. You can try writing her a letter, without being defensive. Don't try to justify or explain your feelings. They are valid and you have reasons for them. She doesn't have to understand them, but you then don't have to apologize for it if she doesn't. Speaking to her as if nothing happened feels phony to you, so you'd like to maintain a polite and cordial relationship for the sake of your girls, but at this time, you are interested in friendships with people who are supportive.


I don't know. Maybe that's passive-aggressive. I'm kind of grumpy today, lol. But I do know that I've been reading that we shouldn't JADE:

Justify
Argue 
Defend
Explain.

Just state what you're feeling and thinking. I know I always want people to understand me and I hate when people disagree with me -- I feel mixed up, like I really believe in what I'm doing or saying, but then I want others to agree with me. So I keep defending myself and explaining. Sometimes, it just isn't going to happen, and I'm learning to be OK with that.

She sounds like a jerk, though.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> I don't know. Maybe that's passive-aggressive. I'm kind of grumpy today, lol. But I do know that I've been reading that we shouldn't JADE:
> 
> Justify
> Argue
> ...


AP - good advice and insight. Sorry you are feeling grumpy today.

Lucy - well it sounds like some progress on his part. Keep strong!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks, both of you.

I keep thinking, "I don't need that kind of support" from my friend who insists she is compassionate and not doing anything wrong. When she said, "Maybe you need to look at what that anger is really about" I wanted to say "Maybe you need to look at what that guilt is all about". But I didn't. 

Despite what my marriage was like, I actually do avoid conflict in most relationships and with this one, I've decided to go the route of apologizing for being harsh with her (because my first response was a little harsh), and re-assert my feelings and say that I'm sorry she can't understand my perspective. But it just doesn't feel supportive to me, I don't trust her, and internally I know I won't share really anything personal with her unless I have reason to trust her again. She doesn't even need to know that.

I like the JADE acronym. It's definitely something to work on, and makes me realize how hard it is for me to just sit with my feelings and not need validation from anyone. To feel them and know it's okay, from within, is the first step.

(Also it's the name my D chose for our make kitten, so I'll always remember it!)


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

news flash! i just lost my job today (one of three, the one i disliked the most but was "sticking with" because i need it)!

under the strangest circumstances...apparently the whole warehouse is moving, this week. they couldn't have told me any sooner because they just decided this past weekend. 

so i'm not on the books so they didn't have to give me notice. i have two days left then get to figure out how i'm going to make rent!

it's almost funny.

anyone out there from canada who can tell me if i have any legal recourse, or can somehow get them to pay me for the two weeks notice they should have given me?

or am i screwed?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh, geez, honey, it just doesn't end, does it?  What about an attorney general for your province that deals with labor issues? They might be able to tell you if there are any laws on the books that would protect you, or maybe give you another lead to follow.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Lucy - How are things going for you?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Hey soca, 

thanks for checking in. things are moving along, i guess. spring is here and i am really not into all the sun. i dread summer. so i guess i'm feeling pretty depressed, at least some days. also really angry, still. i practiced what writing an honest, nasty email to my ex would be like (ie, just writing "you're an *******," etc.) then deleted it. but it was a little thrilling. i still feel like i could just rage and rage at him. 

we have a mediation date set, finally. april 12. i'm filled with dread, at the possibility that he isn't willing to pay what i think is far, that i will have to fight hard for full custody, and whether i should mention that i still really want the option of moving away.

this town just feels awful to me now. and it's sad.

some days i'm even still struck by the shock of it all.

in short, i feel still so consumed by emotion. i've had some really good conversations with friends and supportive visits, even a little fun. 

i can't wait to move on, i'm doing a lot of reading and working through a lot. but this is bringing up so many issues for me around my own worth, which i hate. i know i'm good stuff, but i'm also questioning everything.

i'm so angry i was even in this relationship. i love my daughter, and i thought we were building a life together as a family. but i think back to plans i had that i gave up for him (like travel before kids, he wasn't ready, i thought we had time) and i am so angry and resentful. it's like i could have had a whole other life and i don't know how to get on a better track yet. not the old track, but one that fulfills me.

i wish he was out of my life completely, 100%. it would be so much easier.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Write that email, Lucy!! Just don't send it. But let that rage out -- it's better than keeping it inside you. It's there, and it's not helping you. 

Moving away is usually one of the things that's covered in a parenting agreement (as soca and I well know), so it will probably come up whether or not you broach the subject. 

I think there are many of us who echo those feelings you have of loving the child(ren) from the relationship, but yet regretting the relationship. And wanting the ex completely out of your life, yet not being able to because of the child(ren). Some of the suckier paradoxes of divorce, I think. 

I'm glad you've been able find some support and fun, even if it's just a little. Every bit helps. That you have support and friends should help with that 'questioning your worth' thing.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

thanks angel. so much of this is just sucky, isn't it? i'm not rationally questioning my worth, but it's true that i feel stripped and need to rebuild, i hope on a more solid foundation than the bull**** of the past nine years.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Well now I've done it. I sent a nasty text, the nastiest yet, I pretty much called him a prick. He's only had our daughter for 3 hors today, that's the schedule, and he writes as i'm dropping her off, whether he can drop her off instead of me picking her up. sounds fine, right, except that i'm emotionally so raw today and so primed for a way to rage and rage at him...

and he doesn't have a car, so he'd be dropping her off with someone else, and probably on his way somewhere else, and i just think it's unnecessary for him to rub my nose in the life he has without me.

i know it paints me as the bitter *****y ex (which, by the way, I am) and in his mind, totally justifies his actions/leaving. and it may even mess up my chances of a fair settlement - mediation in just less than two weeks - for me to be acting this way.

but ****, i can't help it. i can, but i re-read that text three times at least and still decided to send it. i guess i don't care and at the same time i care so much that i don't know what to do with myself.

not a lot of "acting from the heart" when my heart is broken - no, smashed - apart.

please, someone, tell me it gets better. give examples. i'm having such a hard time believing it... or even wanting it. i'm almost 5 months out now...

help!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

ps. i now know he's getting legal advice (thought from a lawyer or just a friend, i know not) and worry that nasty email and txts will be used against me...not sure how..this is canada, but still. ****.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

god, i am wildly irrational right now. my e was with m daughter at the house of friends of his - new friends we both made just before the split, and i'm sad i'm not friends with them anymore. well, it was just one of the casualties i guess. a cute little family.

i am soooo snarky. i want to rage and tel him he's supposed to spend time just with her, not with friends. actually, i did, in a text. but now i'm so agitated, i feel like crap for giving in to the rage, i hate the thought of him invited to friends' houses like he's a good person or something.

my rage has no bounds. i hate myself. i want him to never see my daughter again. yikes...what is happening to me?


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> god, i am wildly irrational right now. my e was with m daughter at the house of friends of his - new friends we both made just before the split, and i'm sad i'm not friends with them anymore. well, it was just one of the casualties i guess. a cute little family.
> 
> i am soooo snarky. i want to rage and tel him he's supposed to spend time just with her, not with friends. actually, i did, in a text. but now i'm so agitated, i feel like crap for giving in to the rage, i hate the thought of him invited to friends' houses like he's a good person or something.
> 
> my rage has no bounds. i hate myself. i want him to never see my daughter again. yikes...what is happening to me?


Lucy - I know the feeling. It's the hate that comes from the feeling that someone is hurting and taking your child. From what my IC says, the anger is a part of this.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

This week I have been afraid.

I have felt myself slipping. 

I have felt myself stop caring about the things that were, just days before, giving me a little hope. 

I have felt low, unmotivated, unsure of myself and extremely exhausted. 

I started taking 5HTP, on the recommendation of a couple friends with low energy/mood struggles.

Such a ****ing struggle. Mediation is on Friday. Any cheer-up and strength-building comments would be much, much appreciated.

I just want to stay in bed all day. Or have sex and be held by someone who really, really loves me. Or go to Paris.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Lucy - sorry to hear that but these phases happen where it all seems so overwhelming and it becomes a physical/emotional drain. I have been on anti-anxiety/depression meds since this (Lexapro then Sertraline). Have you spoken to your doctor about possibly these being needed at this time?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Lucy, I agree with Soca -- talk to your doctor. And tell him/her that you're taking the 5HTP. It can interact with other meds. Also, look up hypothyroid on the web. Depression and lack of energy are two classic symptoms of low thyroid, but you should check to see if any of the others sound like you, too. I have had low thyroid since I had DS, and it's always gotten worse in times of heavy stress. If any of the other symptoms are things you're having, ask your doctor to do a blood test for you. It's a cheap and easy fix, if it turns out to be low. Just a matter of finding the right dose.

It's only natural that you're experiencing these feelings now. Subconsciously, perhaps you're aware of the upcoming 'conflict' on Friday, and your body is going into 'avoidance' mode. I do that. Right when I need the energy the most (like now, in fact, lol), all I want to do is veg or sleep. One day at a time, Lucy. Focus on being your best advocate, and making sure you're fully present when you need to be on Friday. If you need some extra rest until then, go ahead. Take care of yourself. This isn't going to go on forever, and you'll start feeling better again. 

But please do see your doctor. You might just need a little boost to get you through this. ((Hugs))


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Also, look at your Vitamin D. Most North Americans take in far less Vitamin D than they need. It is linked to mood as well. B vitamins can help with energy and sharper thinking.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

Lucy, 

Get a grip girl...he's controlling you. You got to knock it off where you can knock it off...the only one that controls you is 'you'...emotions run high yes...but fact is...your not going to change a dam thing. Nothing...and it sucks...but you 'can' change how 'you' handle it. Get to the doc..figure out your meds...and agreed, I'd be taking that Vit D. And 'yes' it does make a difference and it 'does' work. 
You hate how you feel don't you? Take back your control...even if it's the little things...no more texting him..done. What he does with your daughter on his dad time is his...like it or not...you have to deal with that...again...you have to realize you have no control over it. 
Anger...anger is something else isn't it? You need another outlet...anything but those text messages...figure it out...I took a bat to some already old stuff one day...it felt great...go bust some shxt up..seriously...I bought a bat...and busted some shxt up! Do it...Take some shxt outside...and scream and beat the crap out of it with a bat...old throw away stuff...or even stuff that is his...whatever...buy some big doller store items...but do this...scream and bust shxt up. You excorsize? If you don't ...start.
Eating crappy junk food? Knock it off...that has a lot to do with moods as well..change your diet...up your protien...yea...I'm serious...this makes a difference. 
Get out of bed..when you don't feel like it...and 'make yourself' do something positive for 'you'...
You need to start making changes...your way of thinking...and letting go...Your relationship is over...get that? Over! Own it! Take it by the balls and deal with it and start living 'for you'...change your hair..your look...clean your house...take back your life and stop giving your stbx the control! TAKE...BACK...YOUR...LIFE! 
Do 'not' let this man define you!!!! Oh he!! no!!!! 

No one is going to do this for you...understand? You are either going to roll over and die...(wake up you have a child so clearly this isn't an option)... or you can pick yourself up dust yourself off...and get a grip and move on. Your going to keep breathing in and out like the rest of us. You feel anger..then feel anger...you need to cry...then cry...your heart is broke...yea...that's part of it...take steps to mend...every moment of every day...you figure out a way to mend...and heal...you go in the direction your sposed to go in to 'thrive'...you ...make...yourself...do it.... 

and you know on here when we say it gets easier... IT DOES...but you won't get there...unless...you friggin'. ...get a grip...and start owning your life...take your control back...handle your pain...deal with your anger...and hold your friggin head high....make any changes you can for the moment...but...make...those...changes... doing nothing...will sink you...and keep you there... not an option... 

go buy a bat... I did. Make that docs appt... take vitamins...eat right...'move' around... let him go!!! let him go!! let him go!!!! 
figure it out... 

he is not your focus anymore...understand? You are the only one keeping you at your stalemate...'change it'_"""now."""_


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

By the way...you said you feel fear? 


_You are your own life preserver girl...grab on to 'you!'_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I haaaaaaaaate himmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

that was supposed to be in capital letters, btw.

HATE. HATE. HATE.

and our mediation got postponed til who knows when because the mediator has the flu. eerrrggghhh. i was feeling so strong and good and ready to just deal with it all.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

I hate my stbxh to girl.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy - 

Sorry mediation got potponed, but it will happen, and will likelt help you feel much clearer. Take that anger towards him, and turn it to something prodcutive for yourself -- if not kick-boxing classes, the just long brisk walks. Hang in there, and keep up posted. You are a good person! Never forget it, aand sty grounded in it  

Warmly - A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks A12. I feel like a good person today. It seems to be good day, a few bad days, then another good day, but good in a different way that feels like a step forward rather than just back to where I was before. So I think I'm gaining.

I feel my mind gaining strength, like sometimes, I can actually shut out the thoughts before they develop into full blown panic-imagining my ex and his new life and how it will go in the future without me. Sometimes. Other times not so easy.

But what I can't get over is the shock - I still feel it so strong, some moments it's overwhelming. Like, this is suddenly my life? I mean, I can make the best of it, but WTF? Remember what you had not so long ago? And that gets translated into anger, no rage, at him, pretty quickly, for turning this all on its head. 

Is this something others out there share - the continued shock? It's not denial anymore, but a real visceral (physical) feeling of amazement and horror. Is this going to eat me alive if I don't deal with it? Or will it wear off slowly in time? How can I deal with it?

Thanks y'all.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Also, how do you know when you're "healed"? As in, ready to date again? Not going to **** something up (again)?


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Thanks A12. I feel like a good person today. It seems to be good day, a few bad days, then another good day, but good in a different way that feels like a step forward rather than just back to where I was before. So I think I'm gaining.
> 
> I feel my mind gaining strength, like sometimes, I can actually shut out the thoughts before they develop into full blown panic-imagining my ex and his new life and how it will go in the future without me. Sometimes. Other times not so easy.
> 
> ...


Lucy - thanks for the update! Sounds like you are making some progress.

Regarding shock, I wonderered if I was in such a deep denial for months that I wouldn't accept the situation as "real" or permanent. The total upending of your life's plans and day-to-day existence wiped away in minutes. Coupled with our partner's "c'est la vie" attitude does make this a horror-fest.

All I can say, I've had to come to the realization I cannot change the situation and how to get the most benefit for me and my kids out of it. Sounds selfish but hey I'm not the one that started it.

The physical sensations have been lessening and I'm thinking those will subside as time goes by. But the rebuilding does seem very daunting at this point. My thinking is that if I take the day to day steps needed to do this, eventually I will get to the "other side" of this.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

I hear you, sister -- it is part of the process. You will move through it. Be gentle and patient with yourself!

Best, A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

So, an update:

Mediation was yesterday, I felt nervous as hell going in but pulled myself together and felt strong and assertive throughout.

Unfortunately he wants 50/50, which I said I don't want at any point in the near future. We agreed to one more afternoon per week.

Also he said he's against spousal support "on principle" but was willing to consider paying more than the bare bones (****ty ass) child tax guidelines. But he made it sound like only if I agree to 50-50.

Really, what I want is full custody (now called "guardianship" here in BC), with input from him, but freedom to travel and move with my D if that's what I decide to do. 

He wanted out of the marriage, why should he be able to dictate what I need to do to move on with my life and try to be happy?

In the aftermath of all this I have yelled in my empty house, cried and cried and raged, given him the middle finger but when his back was turned (mature I know), and still felt the horrible shock and nightmarish sense of "is this really my life?"

On an upnote, he looked so rough and I found I wasn't attracted to him. I did feel sorry for him and some compassion and sadness that this has to be so hard, that he wants more time with his D and that I don't think I have it in me to give it to him if it means not having the time with her, myself.

He's chosen this bed to lie in, now he can see how messy it really is. 

But urgh. It still all makes me sick to my stomach.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Sorry that it was so rough, Lucy. Fight for what you think you deserve. You're right. It was his choice. If it's rough for him, too bad. Money vs. time with D shouldn't be used as bargaining chips against each other. I've forgotten, do you have an attorney or anyone advising you?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angel - i have someone advising me, but not a lawyer i can bring to court or anything. we have both been clear that we don't want to go the courts route..

what will be will be, to a certain extent, though there's another session planned with the mediator and i have much to prepare to say/ask for.

in the meantime, what do i do with the (almost) unbridled rage? the thoughts and feelings i have about him feel so toxic to me - i have tried to let them out and they just keep coming and coming. 

it's the worst feeling in the world to be so full of hate for someone, and helplessness as to their role in your life.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Well, you are right. The rage is toxic. It's normal to be angry, but if it takes you over, then they've taken away a piece of you. It is really difficult when you don't feel like you have any control over anything or much of anything. I think it will start to get better on its own when you start to see some little victories in the mediation process -- getting things that you're asking for. 

Part of it though, I think, is because you are still focusing on how much you didn't want this whole thing. That's understandable. It's not fair that you signed up for one type of life arrangement and that's being torn away and replaced with something you never wanted. But that is reality. You can't change it. So the way I've thought of that is to compare it to a natural disaster. You can't undo the tornado or hurricane or earthquake that upended your life, either (if you're someone who's been in one of those). It's unfair that that took away the life you wanted, too. It could be your home, your livelihood, or heaven forbid, a loved one. But you have to keep going on. So what do you do? Does the rage help you to move forward and rebuild, or does it keep you stuck? 

If you find it's keeping you stuck, then finding some tools to help you seems to be the next step. Do a little research on Radical Acceptance. It's very helpful for dealing with things we can't change/don't want, but in a healthy way. Not by suddenly changing to think it's all OK, but just to deal with the unchangeable in a way that doesn't make things worse on you.

It's a concept that has helped me through all of this. It helps to start taking some control back, even if it's only inside you.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angel - as always, wise and soothing words. thank you.

yes i'm still stuck. i realize so much of my rage is over the fact that i fell like he can still control me physically, as in, not letting me leave or even travel at length with my daughter. he's controlling me through her. 

and also i'm still so outraged at the way he went about it all, the holding it in for who knows how long, the "going along" with trying for a second child, the betrayal of having an EA with one of our friends, and all the little bull****ty things that have happened since, like him not paying rent when he said he would, and saying things to our mutual friends that are just ****ing full of bull****. trying to play the helpless victim, like i was the one that left him. no, wait, i FORCED him to leave, he had no choice. this kind of bull****. i could just strangle him.

ending a marriage is one thing. being an immature loser about it is another. i can't trust him, don't like what kind of morals and values he's going to pass on to our daughter, and would be really thrilled if I never saw him again. wait, but i want a heartfelt, crying and sobbing on his knees, apology first. 

ha, ha, ha, i know. 

i will try Radical Acceptance, kicking and screaming all the way...and i might just mature a little through this. 

i do have a pretty good plan for what to do next, ie. getting on with my life. if only he'd let me do it, ie. let me leave this flaky town. i know that's what i need and what i'm going to assert at our next session.

(i need to confess that i am also hugely angry at myself...for choosing to stay with him when he was so obviously not into it. well, no, actually, i'm not angry, just sad that my hopefulness and sticking-it-outedness didn't work out the way i wanted...)

here's hoping for some of those little victories!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Ugh, ugh, ugh, a lonely evening. Feelings hijacking me from all over. 

I'm tending to think ahead and get freaked out by all that is still going to change. Like when my daughter is a teenager, what if she decides she wants to live with her dad? What if he's living on a cult-commune by then? Oh my god. 

And so then any resolved or remotely peaceful place I've gotten to - hey, maybe I have a new family, surreal as that seems now - will be shattered by all the continued effects of this one HUGE thoughtless choice he's made.

I know it's crazy to think forward like that. But I'm so afraid that my whole life will be built on this fragile sense of no trust, with evil (the ex) lurking there ready to wreak havoc. 

Or worse, I'm afraid that I'm going to be so sad, still, because it's so weird that he's just out of my life, like that. Like he doesn't care about what I'm doing in a day, at all. I really still can't get over that. Makes me want to throw up to think of it.

Call me dramatic. But I'm so horrified. How does anyone ever have an amicable divorce? I feel like I could carve his eyes out with my bare hands next time I see him.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I used to have those feelings, too. LM. But you know what? There's absolutely no point in going there right now. None. It takes up precious energy, and keeps you from focusing on what's going on right now. That's all you can have some certainty about: what's going on right now. 

Think about what you'll do tonight. What your daughter will have for breakfast and what she'll wear to school. Maybe as far out as what you'll do this weekend. But try not to go so far out into the future. There's no way to know and nothing you can do now. 

Breathe, Breathe, Breathe. You can do a lot to create peace inside yourself. Learn those skills. It will also do a lot to strengthen you when and if you are confronted with things later on. You'll feel and _be_ stronger and better able to make weigh options and make decisions. 

Trust me, LM. Read up on Mindfulness and breathing exercises to help with it. I learned about them in my DBT therapy group, and we do them at the beginning of my DV support group each week. Sometimes I even remember to do them at other times, lol. But they really do help keep you centered and more calm.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

OMG, I feel like such a baby. Nothing is making a difference. Breathing does help, sure, but it just feels like any peace I can come to has this crack in it. I feel so scarred already form this and I haven't even healed, not even close. 

I feel like the years I spent with him were a waste and I'm full of such hatred, and I know all the positive ways I'm supposed to spin all that but I'm so exhausted and I just want something to feel GOOD. Is that too much to ask?

And then as soon as I wish something good for myself I think of him, and how if he's so happy what good things he must be getting, and you can imagine where that thought leads me, and then I want to be sick. 

I love myself and know there is good ahead for me, but at times like this I'm my own worst enemy and I don't even know how to stop it. Going to sleep, usually. Stops the endless, bottomless rage from being felt. Thank goodness it stays out of my dreams.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

You're not a baby, hon. You're going through a lot of pain. That's understandable. But right now, you have these thought loops that will just keep going around and around unless and until you do something to get them off that track. 

It takes willpower, but when you wish something good for you, and thoughts of him start to come up, STOP, talk back to those thoughts and get back to thinking only about you and your D. Don't let the thoughts progress to anything else to do with him. It IS under your control. It takes practice, and it's a skill you can learn and do. The more you do it, the easier it gets. And eventually, thoughts of him won't pop up anymore. You will have broken that loop.

Sure, sleep ends those bad feelings, but you won't be able to have those good things in your future if you're sleeping all the time.  So, in order to get to those good things, use your awake time to focus on you. YOu've been focused on him for so long that it's automatic, and it's keeping you down. I know. I was like that, too. I focused way too much on my Ex and how the things he did were affecting me. I had to purposely turn away from those things, and it was hard. It still is. I can let myself go there if I'm not careful. But it feels much better to take the steps so that I don't let him affect me like he used to.

Trust me, Lucy. Force yourself to take control. You can do it, and you will feel better.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks angel. You're like my personal IC! But right now I don't think I can do it, the willpower I mean. I can't seem to let go, to stop thinking of him. THere's all the stuff he's done and said and I can rage at that and try to have that rage move me forward, but I don't want to live my life built on rage. So then I try to have compassion for what's gone down, and then I'm just hopelessly sad, because it all sucks and, well, it's happened. 

I get where you're coming from and the advice is so spot on, but I feel so worn down, somehow unable to kick my own butt into gear and leave him behind. It makes me panic to write that, but I just feel so stuck. Haunted is how it feels. 

Still not sure how to deal with the surreal feelings of shock. 

BTW, angel, how long has it been for you?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

It's been a while, Lucy. My divorce was just this past Valentine's Day, but I've been moved away from him for nearly two years. He gave his ILYBINILWY speech the first time in Oct 2010, and the 2nd one two days before Thanksgiving that year. He kept me in limbo, saying we'd try MC, telling me and everyone we were 'working on it,' during an in-house separation until the following Memorial Day, when I said I was done. I could see he was jerking me around, and was in the midst of yet another EA. There was never any MC, but I'd started IC right after the 2nd speech.

It was still really hard for me. I was severely co-dependent, and had pretty much lost myself while married to him. He has mental issues for which he's on disability, and was very controlling, needy and emotionally abusive. I discovered TAM in March 2012, and looking back at my earlier posts, I was still really fighting that codependency a lot even that far out. But I read a lot, kept going to IC, and as I mentioned above, have been in a DV support group and was in a DBT therapy group for over a year and a half (DBT is a therapy originally created for Borderlines, but parts of it have been found to be helpful for non-borderlines, too. I'm not BPD, and nobody else in my group was, either). I finally filed for the D after delays due to money, and a health scare in my Ex the autumn after I moved out, and his asking me to delay until he finished his Master's thesis last summer. 

It was a very long, drawn out process. But I'm on the other side of it now. It's still not easy, but much, much better now. To the point that I wish I'd left him years ago. 

There is a middle ground between the rage and the compassion. A state of being sort of detached. Feeling and observing your feelings, but not letting them take you over. Not a robot, but not drowning in your emotions, either. Those emotions are part of what is sapping your energy. It's exhausting to keep fighting all of that all the time. I know it is. 

You don't have to do it all at one time, Lucy. It seems really overwhelming. But take it one step at a time. Don't worry about when the feelings come up tomorrow, but the _next_ time they start to come up -- take those deep breaths. Calmly tell yourself that you will get through this while you're breathing. IF thoughts about him, or anything else start to creep in, then focus on your inhaling and exhaling, and that's it -- don't allow yourself to focus on _anything_ else. Keep doing it until you feel calm. It takes practice, but you can learn it. You can also find guided meditations on YouTube that might help if you have a hard time doing it yourself. Just try not to judge how well you think you'll do, and give them a try.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks angel. I can breathe through most of the overwhelmed moments, and even detach a little, but then it's like I remember WHY I'm feeling this in the first place, and the disorientation is too much to bear. 

Like as a separate, strong, capable woman and mother, I know myself and am moving on. But then I remember, oh yeah, it's not just me and D, there's this ******* still in the picture. WTF, how do I get rid of him? So that part's nightmarish. 

(Because part of my brain is still trying to convince me that he's NOT a horrible person...)


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

You don't need to get to that point right now, because that's what's bogging you down. Don't worry about defining him either way -- not as a monster, or with compassion. It's where you're getting stuck, so try to get to the point where you're not thinking of him at all. Cut off those thoughts. Maybe later on, you can deal with evaluating whether he's evil or sympathetic, but it's not necessary right this minute. You have to get yourself out of this spot right now.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

morning time! i'm still grumpy and raging mad as i was last night. and sad, because it's such a beautiful ****ing day in this town and i can't enjoy it. he's ruined it. he's probably off enjoying himself anyway, ****er.

angel - i can't turn it off! how do i develop a stronger mind?

how can i not think of him? it's not like i'm thinking of him with longing, just rage and horror and disgust. it feels good to have all the bad thoughts i can come up with, about him. 

but i need some new perspective, some way of thinking about it differently. i don't want to be a raging monster forever...

but i have to say i'm horrified by so many other stories here on TAM, that in a way what he's done doesn't surprise me at all. but it gives me no hope that another relationship will be better.

i mean, i have to hope, but how can i trust someone again? how could he do this, and why was he such a passive, manipulative, sneaky, resentful **** about it? 

i hate to admit it but i am full of vengeful thoughts this morning. i know, making someone "pay" isn't the way to heal your anger at them. but this isn't like a natural disaster, it's an actual person who made actual choices that ripped your life to shreds.

at least, can i look him square in the eye the next time i see him and say "**** you"? every time i see him? i would LOOOOVE to do that.

ok, except at our mediation session. then i'll have to be on my best behaviour, since i'm going to try to get full custody.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy - 

It is very natural to have these waves of feelings, when we are going through separation and divorce. One book that helped me refocus and manage pianful thoughts and feelings when they would come up is the one by Gina Lake:

Embracing The Now: Finding Peace And Happiness In What Is: Gina Lake: 9780615240688: Amazon.com: Books

Has you mediation session been scheduled, and if so when is it? Sorry if I lost track, but recalled it had been post-poned because the mediator got the flu.

Keep your chin up, and make it a good day!

Cheers, - A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

A12 - Mediation was rescheduled, first session was last Friday, next session is next Friday. 

Doesn't "session" sound so innocent?


Nothing much was decided at S#1, except that he wants 50/50 and I said no way.

Next up: moving towns, and full custody. Good times.

**** him.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> A12 - Mediation was rescheduled, first session was last Friday, next session is next Friday.
> 
> Doesn't "session" sound so innocent?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update, I hope you are able to reach agreement in mediation and not expensive litigation. Being in an angry phase can be good, insofar as it helps with detachment, but try to direct it at something positive like exercise -- it can really bring releif! Be good to yourself and don't beat yourself up for having some angry feelings -- you will process and move through them. Have an execellent weekend, and do something nice for yourself!

Best Regards,- A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

think i'm going to start incorporating stairs into my non-existent exercise routine...they go straight up from my house.

burn, baby, burn. 

i've also been given the imagine of a room where the emotion can live, which is separate form the rooms i live in and function in every day. so when an emotion comes up, i will now try to say "hmmm, that's interesting." and escort it to the next room. 

something life that, anyway.

making plans to road trip and visit family this summer...if only i can figure out what to do with the cat!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Saw x and my daughter out in town for the first time (on the one day a week that he has her). 

It was from a distance but I ignored them. Think they saw me. 

Oh, the rage. I would have loved to give him the finger. 

**** I hate him.

Rant over (for now).


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> Thanks angel. You're like my personal IC! But right now I don't think I can do it, the willpower I mean. I can't seem to let go, to stop thinking of him. THere's all the stuff he's done and said and I can rage at that and try to have that rage move me forward, but I don't want to live my life built on rage. So then I try to have compassion for what's gone down, and then I'm just hopelessly sad, because it all sucks and, well, it's happened.
> 
> I get where you're coming from and the advice is so spot on, but I feel so worn down, somehow unable to kick my own butt into gear and leave him behind. It makes me panic to write that, but I just feel so stuck. Haunted is how it feels.


I feel exactly like this! Thanks for sharing it!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

hey, ATCE - it's funny how rapidly feelings can shift through these dark days. today, for example, i no longer feel haunted, just worn out and ready to be done with it all. a little disembodied, perhaps, because it is just so surreal.

maybe the stuck, hurt, angry part of me will eventually catch up with the moving forward part...they take turns, actually, back and forth. but they're definitely two different states of being.

i just have to be careful that i don't send too many of the nasty, nitpicky texts (oops, already did that today) or long, accusatory emails (held off on this one for now). 

the details are different for all of us but the circumstances, so similar. feelings too. 

i'm enraged this evening by the simple fact that my ex took my daughter canoeing today - something he never liked to do with us (hated in fact, would do anything to get out of) but did with a friend of his who owns a canoe. that's it, but it was enough to drive me into a jealous rage. internally, of course.

i don't understand how anyone can want to hang out with a superficial, lying, cheating, family-leaving flake like him. 

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

you are so right. I never understood this kind if pain before.... now I will never forget it.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> hey, ATCE - *it's funny how rapidly feelings can shift through these dark days. today, for example, i no longer feel haunted, just worn out and ready to be done with it all. a little disembodied, perhaps, because it is just so surreal.
> 
> maybe the stuck, hurt, angry part of me will eventually catch up with the moving forward part...they take turns, actually, back and forth. but they're definitely two different states of being.*
> 
> ...



I can relate. 

(((hug)))


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

well folks,

i kind of blew it today. well, starting last night - sent a string of snarky texts to my ex, nitpicking details about him coming to move stuff from the basement of our house. basically didn't want him to, but he has to. 

went to bed kind of mad. dreamt about kissing him. ugh.

then today i sent an email to his best friend because i realized i was so angry with him, and i had let on that i had no hard feelings, so i wanted to clear that up. for better or worse, i guess. this is the guy who was arranging for double dates for himself and my ex before he had even moved out. so i guess i was fooling myself about no hard feelings. so sent the email, it was generally civil but i did pull the "what did i ever do to you" line. maybe i'll regret it later.

anyway, it gets better. was busy enough during the day with my D, we hosted a yard sale and it was sunny. 

but i had asked my x not to come do the moving of stuff today (because of the yard sale and because i was so pissed at him for taking my daughter canoeing, a shared family activity (i know, jealous and resentful, but it hurts) that i thought i might not be cooled down enough to see him. 

nope, i wasn't. because he showed up anyway, even though i asked him not to. i went right down and told him to leave, thus ensued our first post-break up shouting match on the street. awesome. i tried to stop him from taking anything; he insisted. i basically said how disrespectful he was, and why couldn't he come at another time. he insisted it was the only time he could do it. not true.

but i guess the reasons don't matter and i'm starting to feel, most of all, like my anger is getting the best of me. i could have raged at him for hours and i'm sure it wouldn't have made a difference, made me feel any better or him more remorseful, or changed anything. that reality check sucks. 

so why do i keep raging? this is so sad. i need to get out of the anger trap, even when i feel like i'm provoked. 

it's almost helping me move forward but not quite...oh, the hopeless wish that he could just not exist. 

(then later tonight, we're back to texting about the next time he needs to come...urgh. i almost wanted to apologise for losing my cool, because i do feel sorry, but i can't acknowledge that to him. then i cried. i can't believe, for all my intentions in our marriage to understand and communicate and CARE, that it has come to this. )

when will it stop feeling so sad and awful?

then, to top it all off, i've got the friend who i had a falling out with (when she chatted with my ex then told me she could see his perspective and that she didn't understand why i was angry at him) -- and then since, it's been awkward but we see each other around -- she got in touch and said, she feels like i'm holding a grudge, and why, and she thought we apologised and cleared things up. obviously, for me, things have changed rather irreparably, and i honestly don't want to put a lot of emotional effort into fixing anything. it just changed our friendship and isn't going to go back to the openness we had before. so she's pretty clearly mad about that. 

awesome. 

i hope you are all finding some peace this evening. i'm going to go search for some in dreamland.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

I keep repeating to myself a phrase I hear often and love!

Progress.... not perfection. 

Now, if only I believed it!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I think this is the worst day I've experienced in almost six months. 

The pain and hurt is just so piercing. 

I'm at work and in tears every ten minutes. Everthing about this job (at the arts council) is reminding me of my x, his art, my art, our plans together, the area aroun town where we were goign to buy land.

I feel so desperately sad, far sadder than sad, and I don't know what to do. 

It's the most awful feeling, worse than feeling anger. This hurt is what's underneath that anger. 

HOw will I ever recover? I even feel like I coudl go into our mediation session this Friday and beg him, say I love you, etc. I know this is somewhat bull**** but on some level it's still true.

I just so thought we could work it out - he has interrupted a process we just staretd and has moved on so clearly, it's like a knife in the gut. ALL THe TIME, even after six months. 

And our daughter...7 years old - bless her heart...woke up this morning crying. First time I've actually heard her cry since this all happened - she usually gets mad or pouty. Broke my heart (again). I don't know how to help her, I can hardly help myself.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

yes, i'm feeling weak - there's still that love and hope kicking around in there, like i would take him back. like i'm going tinto mediatioin feeling compassionate and wanting to help him...

is this wrong? it's totally counter to what i've been feeling in the last couple of weeks...

this is so confusing and awful.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy - 

Sorry you had a rough day, and my heart goes out to your sweet D7, bless her heart! Just keep trudging a day at a time, don't try to catastrophise about the future. You WILL get through this, and emerge a stronger more whole woman than ever.

I hear you about the mixed emotionas -- hating the on the one hand for the abandonment and disloyalty, but still feeling bonded/attached as a wife and mate and greiving all the dreams of dashed hopes for the future .

Let these feeling wash over you, and know that they will pass. Patience is not my strong suit -- I want things fixed NOW. But it is not up to me to play God -- I have to trust that things will sort out the way they are supposed to be and I WILL re-build. You will too. Hold on to that, and breath!

Hugs, A12


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It's full of ups and downs. You just have to go with it and realize it will eventually pass.

You are mourning the loss of a life that you thought you had so, yes, it's like a death.

Just know that you *will *get beyond it.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

But does he have to be so cold, heartless, distant and cruel about it? Why would he be, if he's so "off the hook"?

Yesterday he said, talking about our split, "that was MONTHS ago." We were together 9 years.

Oh, right, so I should be over it, just because you are?

Ah, there's the anger coming back now.

Thanks for your reminders to breathe and let it flow.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> But does he have to be so cold, heartless, distant and cruel about it? Why would he be, if he's so "off the hook"?
> 
> Yesterday he said, talking about our split, "that was MONTHS ago." We were together 9 years.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

You do not know how he feels.

Where's your focus?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

no, i don't know how he feels. he doesn't share that with me.

but his actions and words speak volumes, if nothing else, then about his character.

my focus is on trying to feel what i'm feeling while trusting it will pass, and moving forward, making a plan. 

i'm hijacked by emotions and thoughts i don't want, but i'm trying to detach from them...

he's here right now, moving the last of his stuff out of the basement. trying to calm the intense tension coursing through my body...

playing loud music so i can't hear...


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

i wish i could sick a mean dog on him though...


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi Lucy -- was without internet for the last several days, so I'm just now catching up. I'm sorry you had to deal with him coming over when you asked him not to and that he's been so cold and distant. Boy, this sounds so much like the process I went through with my Ex. Right down to doing things with our child that he never wanted to do with me -- until he had friends who wanted to do them. Yep, did that a few times. And yes, it made me really pissed. And when it happened, I got really angry, too. And was jealous that I sat home alone or watching DS like a free babysitter when he went out and did fun things with friends that he wouldn't do with me, then blamed me for being no fun. ??? I totally get it.

So, what happened? Why am I not still pissed? Well, first of all, don't kid yourself that I don't get pissed from time to time. He's still doing things with posGF that I wanted to do, but he wouldn't. What I had to do was DETACH my life from his. Absolutely necessary to move forward, Lucy. It sucks. It hurts. It's not what you signed up for, and it's not fair. And nobody's kicking him in the ass and making him do the right thing where you and DD are concerned. 

BUT. THAT'S. OUR. LIVES. 

You are letting him steal your life away. You are letting him take any possible joy you can feel. He is showing DD all kinds of fun times, and I don't want to make you feel bad about this, but ... how do you think your anger is making her feel? I had to realize that I was pushing DS to want to spend more time with his father because his father was 'fun-time' guy in the beginning.

I, too, work in a place with a lot of connection to my EX. Still run into friends and profs of his. He and posGF actually came in one day -- I didn't see them, but one of my good friends did. I've run into them in town, too.

The ONLY way you can get through this is to detach yourself from him. Turn him into a figure you can mock and make fun of, if you have to. That has helped me a lot. He's quite ridiculous in his relationship with posGF, so it's easy to do. I could easily focus on everything good that I've lost, but what is the point? I'm instead trying to focus on the bad things I left behind when our marriage ended. And there were a lot. At first, it's easy to focus on what we miss that were good things. But if you look closely, Lucy, I think you can see things unraveling over time. This wasn't sudden. I remember some things you wrote in another thread this past fall. Focus on those. Focus on the pain you felt and how that will be ending when you're not with him everyday, making new _painful_ memories. 

BE. GRATEFUL. for this second chance. Yes, you read correctly. You are getting a second chance. A chance to have a life with the best thing from your marriage -- your daughter -- without the immature, emotionally backwards boat anchor that is your STBXH. It was a really long process for me to get there, but by the time the D happened on Valentine's Day, I didn't cry in court -- and _I've still never cried about it._ I've learned to see him for who he is and was and realize that it's better not to be with him. 

I think if you can turn your feelings off of him, and on to your future, you will feel so much better. It really is in your hands. Of course those feelings of rage and anger are going to come up in you. They are a habit now, and are deeply entrenched. You have to make a serious, conscious effort to work past them. You are strong, Lucy, I know you can do it. But right now I think it's easier for you to be angry at him and focus on what you've lost. Nobody is discounting that. But you are adding to your own pain at this point.

1. Stop texting and/or emailing him until it is strictly about the D, your daughter (schedule, etc.), or business. 

2. Get some physical exercise, even if it's walking around town or working in your yard. Listen to music that will not make you think of him, and so that you don't ruminate on him.

3. When you see him, or think about him, deal with it no longer than necessary, then *move on*. No lingering on him or replaying episodes of contact with him.

4. Most of all, decide that you are sick of your life like this and that you are ready to make whatever changes in you that are necessary.

You've got to make these steps, Lucy. Nobody else can do it for you. He is still stealing your life, because you're giving it to him willingly.

(((big hugs))) *Now, get out there, Tigress!*


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

What she said.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

So what about my stewing desire to sit him down, or at least write a letter, with all the hurt and upsets I feel towards him - get it all out, give it, then be done with it. 

Keep in mind we still have mediation coming up, still have to figure out the terms of the separation, how much he will be supporting us with, for how long, whether he'll let me leave town if need be, whether i want to get full custody (or "guardianship" as they now say here).

Also, damn it, but today I feel like if he came back and said he's sorry, and we really talked and I felt he understood me, I would take him back, and try again. Those are some big if's, I know, but I loathe the thought that in the future he will talk to me about coming back, or say he's sorry and regrets what he did, at which point maybe it will be too late.

So there's a lot still going on before I feel like I can really move on, mostly so much unexpressed anger and questions I have about why exactly he had to be such a **** about it all.

Thank you, as always, angel, for your lengthy and thoughtful answer.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Write the letter.

Post it on here.

Burn it.

Under no circumstance send him the letter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

why not?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Like not ever?


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Never Ever Ever

Here's what happens.

You pour soul into letter.
He never responds.

Seen it over and over.

DO NOT DO IT!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Also, angel, I think I spent so long (9years) in this relationship with him, and before that, only a handful of not-serious relationships, that I put so much into this being THE BIG DEAL relationship of my life. And so far, it has been. I mean, marriage, a kid, the whole deal. 

BUt I'm afraid. I can think "I deserve better" and know in my heart that it's true, but I don't have any other experience than this mediocre, always-wanting-more feeling. What if I always feel that? What if no one measures up? What it, horror of all horrors, what my ex says is true, and I do just want too much?

I want to be happy with the rest of them. I know marriage/long-term relationships take work. But I also want a lot - connection, passion, commitment, more kids, love and respect. I'm terrified that I won't find that. So it's harder for me to "look forward" to that. I certainly don't want to be alone. 

I feel like if I let out, share, use up the anger and rage that it will be the fastest way to get rid of it and move on. So far, it's just still coming in droves.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Also - I just still want the life that we planned! Buying land, having animals, in this exact geographic place. 

I don't want to do it without him (or rather, risk staying here to try to do it alone, or with someone else) I don't want to stay and watch him do it with others. 

I get what you're saying about detaching. It's like one little piece of the puzzle is missing for me to do that. Or maybe a big piece. But understanding it logically and doing it emotionally are so far apart right now. 

I hate to admit but I guess it's the piece that is hope that he still might come to his senses. If I leave, send that letter, etc., then it means it's really over and I think he has to be as out of my life as possible. The detachment is going to be so painful...it feels like it's only just starting. 

How do you deal with the pain while detaching?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

GP - no, the letter i'm composing would be more of the toxic sludge that's in me, let out, well composed because I'm a good writer, but still, sticking it to him. 

Yeah, he can read that a million times if he wants. Even better. Or he can never read it, burn it, or show it to everyone he's got "on side". I wouldn't care. It would be my parting gift to him.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It would benefit you to write it. Get the rage out. That's a good thing. It would not benefit you to send it. Accomplishes nothing. He doesn't care.

So write it and burn it. Just make sure you don't send it.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

But still - bear with me, I know I'm being a bit childish about this - 

what's the hurt in sending it? He doesn't care, but I don't expect it to change anything, just to know that he actually has the final piece of my mind that he's ever going to get.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

OK, Lucy. I did exactly what you want to do. Exactly. I wrote out, long-hand, a letter, telling him EVERYTHING. Things I'd never told him before. Poured it ALL out there. HE. NEVER. READ. IT. 

Did it make me feel better? Not really. Every time he refers to something I know I wrote in that letter as if he's hearing it for the first time, it reminds me that I sent it to him and he never read it. Didn't even respect me enough as a human being to listen to what I had to say. It's the hurt that keeps on giving. 

And again, I have much in common with you. My Ex was my only really serious relationship, my only sex partner. We dated for 3 years, were married/living together for 10 years and a few months, then lived apart til the D, which was a month after our 12th anniversary. 

I don't know if I'll ever have another relationship, either, and I'm older than you, so demographics are against me as well. I want the same things you do, and no, I don't think you're asking too much. 

But once you are OK with yourself, it's not going to be so scary. The break-up was extremely hard for me to get through because I'd wrapped up so much of my 'self' in that marriage relationship. There really wasn't a separate Angelpixie by then, so when the marriage died, I felt like a huge part of my total identity died, too. I'm starting from scratch, as I had issues in my childhood that allowed me to be attracted to someone like him in the first place, and to give over my self. A real lack of self-esteem, identity and boundaries. So did he. 

As I've been going to IC, group therapy, my DV support group, reading, reading, reading, and TAM'ing, I've been becoming a whole person. And yes, I would like to be in a relationship with a man again. I miss that. I didn't get married to be alone. BUT I won't die if I don't. Because I don't _need_ a man to complete me. I'm not lost without a man, so I don't feel that same fear of being alone that I used to. I am enjoying life more than I ever have and a big part of it is because I'm less connected to toxic people. A lot of people here on TAM have found that same feeling, when they've gotten through that process of detaching from their relationships. 

By all means, pour out your feelings. But nobody here on your thread has so far recommended that you send it. It's not going to do what you deep down hope it will. It will give you more unnecessary hurt to get through, and his lack of response or poor response will not help your anger get better, it will help it to grow.

Sorry, that was another lengthy post.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I guess I should write it all out at at least see what I have to say, then decide if I can handle him 1) responding at all, in any way 2) doing nothing 3) like you, angel, bringing up things as if he's never heard them before.

But something in me thinks it might even do him a favour, in a slap in the face kind of way. Like he could read the letter as a manual of WHAT NOT TO DO in the next handful of relationships he's going to go through. I wouldn't expect him to thank me - in fact, I'd slap him if he did. 

But I am so convinced that he did one thing wrong after another, and he needs to know what those things are. I did wrong things, too, but I didn't walk away form the chance to correct them.

So he can go to his grave thinking he was right and courageous and all this other bull**** about why he left...but I'll know, and I'll know that I at least gave him the opportunity to hear me out (if I ever tried to do it in person, I'd be in tears in 30 seconds and wouldn't get it all out. I'm great in writing. Too great - some of the letters I wrote him before we split were so harsh and to the point, I cringe and also applaud my courage to say the hard things). 

It's not like I'm going to write this letter soon - though I may post a draft here, for all you lovely readers. I'm talking in three, four, six months, once I know where things stand with my potential move away, and child support, etc. is carved in stone. STONE. I wish he was stone. There's a pleasant thought to end the evening on.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> But something in me thinks it might even do him a favour, in a slap in the face kind of way. Like he could read the letter as a manual of WHAT NOT TO DO in the next handful of relationships he's going to go through. I wouldn't expect him to thank me - in fact, I'd slap him if he did.


Why do you owe him a favor like this? Answer: YOU DON'T



lucy mulholland said:


> But I am so convinced that he did one thing wrong after another, and he needs to know what those things are. I did wrong things, too, but I didn't walk away form the chance to correct them.


Exactly. Which means you care to know, and HE. DOES. NOT. If he did, he'd be looking at himself. But he's not.




lucy mulholland said:


> It's not like I'm going to write this letter soon - though I may post a draft here, for all you lovely readers. I'm talking in three, four, six months, once I know where things stand with my potential move away, and child support, etc. is carved in stone.


Good. :smthumbup:


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Plus, I think he would care. My sense is that he left partly because he feels like an inadequate loser, and wants to continue the victim pity party by accumulating all these friends and potential lovers who WOW! LIKE HIM! FOR WHO HE IS! And he doesn't have to deal with the issues and hurts that he was a part of in our time together. 

So he feels guilty, but is trying to mask it with more hurt (to alienate me and make me even more of the bad guy) and all kinds of justification (he had no choice, was forced to leave, couldn't keep trying forever, etc.)

My letter would just be icing on the cake, if he chose to read it. I might not get it all right, but if he read it, he could sit and stew on some of it if he's so into "growing and learning" from his mistakes (which he's hinted at).


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angelpixie said:


> Why do you owe him a favor like this? Answer: YOU DON'T
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Maybe he is looking at himself. I don't really know. He's said he's ready to share with me why he left, but I've told him I don't want to hear because I think it will be another hurtful packet of justifications. I don't think any truth would feel better, at least not in writing. I want the crying, on his knees, begging for forgiveness kind of reason...

But he needs to know even if he doesn't care. Or rather, I need to tell him. You're right, though, I don't care if he ****s up every other relationship he tried to have. In fact, I'd be thrilled. I even looked up how to curse someone online, not long ago. Seriously.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Have his _actions_ hinted at that? (wanting to grow and learn from his mistakes)


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Just beware at this early stage, Lucy. From what you've posted about him and his love of blaming you, saying he had no choice, etc., it could very well be that whatever you do or say, no matter how true to a third party, will be used as ammo by him. If you're angry, he had to leave because you're a b!tch, and the lesson he's learned is to not get involved with a b!tch again. He will tell you he 'grew' when he left you and got involved with other, more sophisticated people. 

I'm just telling you to be prepared for any and all reasons to turn back on you. No matter what you do or say. He's not really interested in doing the hard work on himself. If he did, he'd be _acting_ differently.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The opposite of love is indifference. By sending him a rage-filled letter you would be letting him know he still gets to you. And it would confirm for him that he was wise to get away.

I have detached from my STBXH and I deal with him in an unemotional manner. His time for getting to me is over. It no longer matters to me what he does. He's part of my past.

You haven't detached.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angelpixie said:


> Just beware at this early stage, Lucy. From what you've posted about him and his love of blaming you, saying he had no choice, etc., it could very well be that whatever you do or say, no matter how true to a third party, will be used as ammo by him. If you're angry, he had to leave because you're a b!tch, and the lesson he's learned is to not get involved with a b!tch again. He will tell you he 'grew' when he left you and got involved with other, more sophisticated people.
> 
> I'm just telling you to be prepared for any and all reasons to turn back on you. No matter what you do or say. He's not really interested in doing the hard work on himself. If he did, he'd be _acting_ differently.


I love everything you have to say, angel. I have come to really value your perspective. I'm heading to bed but I will say this...

I'm not worried about him heading for more sophisticated people. He's already shown me the kind of flaky, immoral people he's drawn to, and it's one of the main reasons I don't want to be with him now - I wouldn't want to hang with those people, and I can't see him turning his back on them for me. Sad as that is. 

I don't know what he would be doing if he was clearly working on himself. He's hinted at superficial things like changing his diet and drinking more tea (ha!) but I'm pretty sure his stoner single friends aren't a whole lot of real support (except for the new single life he's chosen). I can't imagine he's told many of the other new friends he has, the real deal with us. Why would he? He'd have to lie to escape looking like a total dweeb.

On just about every level, though, I'd be glad to know he's not working on himself. Cause then that would make this split look like a good thing, which it's not. 

(Except for me, right? Because I have a second chance now. I'm trying to believe that, angel, I really am...)

Good night.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Openminded said:


> The opposite of love is indifference. By sending him a rage-filled letter you would be letting him know he still gets to you. And it would confirm for him that he was wise to get away.
> 
> I have detached from my STBXH and I deal with him in an unemotional manner. His time for getting to me is over. It no longer matters to me what he does. He's part of my past.
> 
> You haven't detached.


Openminded - Do you have kids? Not that it's the main reason I haven't detached. It makes it harder though.

But I haven't detached, it's true. Not sure where I'm at in the love to indifference spectrum. Neither, but still closer to some fxcked up kind of love.

How do you suggest I go about detaching? How long did it take you? What did you do?


(And also, are the leavers always, seriously, nuts? They actually can't understand that you would be angry? How does that work?)


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Also: He got it all wrong.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lucy,

Have you made an effort to get to 50,000 feet and observe the situation as if you were a 3rd party?

Sounds like you're still in the weeds with him.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Also: I can't stand the thought of him having "learned" from the mess of our relationship and be able to benefit from a better one. Having all the new people in his life support him, and have him look back on me as a big mistake. It's disgusting. 

I hope he suffers from a broken heart like I am suffering.

It's still a nightmare, and I feel trapped, people.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Lucy,
> 
> Have you made an effort to get to 50,000 feet and observe the situation as if you were a 3rd party?
> 
> Sounds like you're still in the weeds with him.


Def. still in the murk that the weeds are growing from. It sucks down here.

I've not thought about the distant observer approach. I will think on it though at first try, it seems too disconnected and forced...

Thanks for the suggestion, Conrad.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lucy mulholland said:


> Def. still in the murk that the weeds are growing from. It sucks down here.
> 
> I've not thought about the distant observer approach. I will think on it though at first try, it seems too disconnected and forced...
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, Conrad.


Take a look at Zillard's thread. He and several others get really good results with that approach. Deejov also.

Once it can be less "personal" the world looks different.

His crap is about him.. and him only.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> Openminded - Do you have kids? Not that it's the main reason I haven't detached. It makes it harder though.
> 
> But I haven't detached, it's true. Not sure where I'm at in the love to indifference spectrum. Neither, but still closer to some fxcked up kind of love.
> 
> ...


Yes. My grandchildren are greatly affected by this. I will have to see my STBXH at family events for the rest of my life. I'm prepared for that.

Cheaters just don't care. They are focused on themselves. Which is why it's important to focus on ourselves and forget about them and what they do or don't do. 

We mourn the life we thought we had. But there is a different life waiting for us.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Openminded said:


> All of this takes time. Lots of time. How I detached was to redirect my focus from him to me every time I began to dwell on the then-wreckage of my life. It wasn't easy. Once I let go of the anger I felt better. Anger rarely hurts the person you are angry at. It hurts you.
> 
> We mourn the life we thought we had. But there is a different life waiting for us.


Thank you for this, Openminded! So helpful for me to hear this as well. I admire your courage and progress.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Openminded said:


> All of this takes time. Lots of time. How I detached was to redirect my focus from him to me every time I began to dwell on the then-wreckage of my life. It wasn't easy. Once I let go of the anger I felt better. Anger rarely hurts the person you are angry at. It hurts you.
> 
> We mourn the life we thought we had. But there is a different life waiting for us.


This was positively brilliant, Openminded. :smnotworthy:


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Thank you, Awakening and Angel. It's not been an easy road. But I keep remembering my mother (who's gone now) saying you can either let things happen to you or you can make things happen. So that's what I try to do.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Guys- yesterday I felt a temporary relief from my anger! It was amazing. At least, I detached form it and jus felt tired, not emotionally riled up. 

And this, after he sent me an email this week accusing me of abuse.

It was a little kick to just rise above, feel sorry for him and his victim mindframe, and move that little bit further on....

Mediation this morning. I can do this.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

You go, girl!! Let us know how it turns out.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Oh, the horror...

it was awful.

After nitpicking for an hour on money details (child support guidelines say he only needs to pay $180, I tried to ask what he thought would be fair, he tried to claim he's barely making ends meet when he actually seems to have a surplus of $2-800 every month...) then I finally had to move things along to the bigger questions...that is...


what are we doing for the summer? 
and am i able to move with my daughter for work or school?


he actually burst into tears when i mentioned moving. i feel awful. sick to my stomach. i never wanted this split, never wanted to separate him from his daughter, wanted to be a family, but now that he has left, moving is one of the things i am considering in order to move on fully, and he needed to know that.

still, it's so sad. i'm sad for him, sad for her, sad for myself, but even that doesn't mean that i'm necessarily willing to stay.

he's not necessarily going to let me go, either. he composed himself and then said all negotiations (about money, time, the rest of it) were off and that he was going to need to consult a lawyer. 

****. so a lawyer will tell him not to let me go, obviously...i'm so exhausted, don't want an all out war, but don't want to have to stay here, struggling to make things work, watching his skinny ass flirting and having fun and doing all the stuff we were supposed to do together.

i have to go have a good cry about this...if i can let it out. i'm actually terrified of what's to come...more battles...haven't i suffered enough?

i just want the right to my life, to my daughter, to some hope for happiness after the hurt heals. and i wish this wasn't happening at all (so many of the things he mentioned in mediation have confirmed that he's got all kinds of delusions about the way things were...like that i was abusive...like that when we moved, it was always about running away for me...not true).

so sad.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

still stunned...a little depressed...so much change is still coming...


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

hi again. i'm circling through some depression...mothers' day tomorrow doesn't help...

i am so overwhelmed (again) with regret and the desire to say to my ex, "i would have done anything to save our marriage." i think i would take him back if he came. i know he's not going to. i'm so so heartbroken i can't even stand it.

i'm tormenting myself, i know. but i ran into a mutual friend of ours and cried and cried and feel the loss of our community so strongly. 


i'm really struggling here...any advice out there? even if it's more of the same.

and then i remember how he treated me on the way out, with such careless disrespect and casual certainty, without even trying to address the real issues. and then it feels like all i can do is be angry and somehow rebuild my life on that anger.

when you reach such an impasse what do you do? a part of me feels like not living anymore - or rather, that i'm already dead. then i had the scary image come to me while driving, of driving off a cliff with my daughter in the car. then he would be sorry. then i cried, because of course, what kind of a mother has that thought?

some fresh support, please. 

(it's been six months)...


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

oh, and i really am regretting some of the harsh emails, the rude accusations and confrontations with him. i know it was honest at the time, and **** i'm angry about so much. but this weird voice in me is saying "maybe if you hadn't said those things, a reconciliation would still be possible."

in some ways i'm ashamed of how i've acted.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Alright folks,

It's time for that letter I'm supposed to write but never send. Or at least, a first draft. I'm tired of having this all in my head, and today after a wonderful massage and counselling session, I felt light and strong enough to let some of it go.

Then my D7 talked about the cool bed her dad is building her for her first overnight with him (took us 6 months to get to this point, I'd be happy if it never happened but what can you do...)...and I felt the rage return. 

So I'm going to try to get some of it out, especially as we have a session with our once-upon-a-time marriage counsellor, now "mediator", on Friday, and I feel tempted to say all of this to his face in a witnessed, relatively safe space. Maybe I still will. 

Anyway, comment if you want, but this is mostly for me.


N,

This letter is WAY overdue. I've hoped some of the feelings I have would shift and that we'd be on our way to some better scenario as co-parents. But the feelings haven't shifted. I'm still heartbroken, in shock, and so angry. I know that's complex, and that you don't want that kind of complexity. One more thing for me to be angry about, I guess, and for you to disrespect.

Marriage is not simple or straightforward. It's complex. Our complexity started early when my mom died so early in our relationship. But this is not my fault, any more than the grief I experienced is my fault. It just is, and though I felt like you shrank away from me at this time when I needed you, we somehow got through and had plans for a future together.We chose to have a child together. Please don't tell me you felt forced into that, too, because I remember all the ways you were excited and in support of it. I hope you weren't just using me to show that you could have a child, that you could try to do things in a certain conventional way. I was never that into convention - I wanted connection. I don't know at what point you pulled away from me, thinking we couldn't reconnect, rebuild, learn and grow together in new ways.

It is so hurtful that you didn't think I was up for that. I was 110% up for the work it was going to take, as well as the love and sense of possibility. I didn't give up even when I was angry, hurt, and questioning the relationship. I came back to work on it after we separated in 2009 and I meant it. I wanted it to work. I loved you.

I am appalled at the way you chose to go out. After nine plus years, I deserve so much better than a curt decision, only one counselling session since our stressful move, and no empathy about the role my miscarriage and surgery played in my stress. It seemed to be all about you, and you have found people who are supportive in the most superficial of senses. They don't know you the way I do, nor have they been through what we have. Those relationships will never have the depth this one did.

For you to intensify your crossdressing at such a time of stress, when the potential was there to meet with Anita and talk about what it all meant, for me, because I was the one with questions. I still had caring, love and openness for you and the future but you disrespected that by instead choosing to keep things hidden from me. As if I was supposed to just adapt, not wonder, not feel threatened. You communicated next to nothing and then act like I was the one shutting you out. 

You are the one who has not been accepting me as I am, my full, beautiful, complicated self. I have shown you my heart and soul and you have trampled all over it.

Perhaps it feels like relief to be able to do completely as you wish, but I wonder, why haven't you already moved to the Valley to be "milliner to a rich heiress," as you so casually mentioned you wanted, not even a month after you had moved out of our home. To switch gears so quickly and so publicly is the worst thing you could possibly have done in the fallout from your departure. No matter what accusations you have against me, it is such a horror that you would disrespect the time I put in, and the effort, to talk and plan and believe in our life together. Even now I believe in what could have been, with a bit more maturity, patience, and trust. Anything can be rebuilt.

Instead you went out with so many insensitive comments, suggestions that you've been pursuing other sexual relations even before you moved out, and comments to friends that you've been comfortable with your trans identity since high school. Did you forget to tell your wife about that? I still want to respect that part of you, the totality of your identity that it must be, but I cannot understand or accept how you chose to keep it from me, make small, inadequate gestures to talk about it, and then shut down completely just when I thought we were finally going to talk about it properly.

I am so angry and hurt, because I am one of the most accepting people there is, and you have taken advantage of that by assuming that it meant you didn't have to hear my needs or concerns. No matter how huge an issue this is for you, and I understand it is huge, when you're married with a child, it's not the only issue. It's not just about you.

But now you're gone. You can be selfish. You can find support from selfish people, or people you've lied to, or people who just don't know me or our relationship. How can they? 

But you can never have this family back. You have changed things irreparably. You can start another family and it will only be built on the fact that you discarded this one. You had a wonderful opportunity to build a life with someone who loved you deeply. But you gave that up because it meant facing our issues, our conflict, and the fact that the path ahead was not going to be only smooth and clear. 

I'm sure it looks pretty good from where you're at, but on some level I know that you will never get around the loss that you've brought upon yourself, upon me, and upon our daughter. Your word is worth nothing, and I hope every person you try to have a relationship with in the future realizes that. 

May you suffer as I have suffered,

--------


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi, Lucy. I have read your last few posts. I'm sorry I haven't been here for a while, due to some of my own things going on. I totally understand that dark place you were at. I even felt some of that again for the first time in a long, long time. The stresses we're under intensify those feelings and make them seem overwhelming and out of our control. But yet you did control them. And with the same reasoning I did -- our kids. We know we can't abandon them. So we go on. And everytime we go on, we get a little stronger. Those crashes last a little shorter period of time, and aren't quite as deep. 

There is a part of you that has died. You're shedding an old part of you, an old skin. And the new one is still kind of tender and sensitive. But through the act of living your life, you get a little tougher. The trick is to get stronger without getting harder. To bounce back. It's OK to feel some regret, but don't beat yourself up. You had a right to those feelings. You sending those emails didn't cause him to leave. He was already gone -- that's why you sent them. You're only human. If you are willing to allow him to be human and give him another chance, why don't you deserve that? If he's not willing to give you that, then he's not safe for you. Seek those who are healthy for you, who will nurture you, not those who damage and hurt you. 

Your letter speaks of your love for him despite his challenges and vulnerabilities. But he hasn't seemed to reciprocate that love for quite some time. I think a lot of us on TAM, when we get to the point of writing these letters and journaling, begin to see that the bad things really went on a lot longer than we thought. Because of our love for that other person, and our desire to forgive and make things work, and then, often, later on, our co-dependency and unhealthy attachment, our idea of what is normal and acceptable in a relationship shifted. Things we'd never have accepted before went unnoticed. We kept that vision from the beginning as our focus without seeing that that was really no longer even possible. Finally, one spouse or the other detaches and breaks away. The one left-behind, who has been more enmeshed and invested, is left to start over, often wondering what happened to that wonderful relationship they were in. Yes, it had problems, but no marriage is perfect, and with work, it could have been saved...

But the facts that come out when those letters and journals are finally written prove that the work _wouldn't_ have materialized. It _wouldn't_ have been saved. *You* couldn't save it by yourself. At any point that a walk-away spouse feels that detachment start, he or she has a choice. They can let it happen, knowing that it's pulling their marriage apart, or they can face it head on, to prevent the destruction of their marriage. Ultimately, once one spouse detaches, the marriage is over, no matter what the other spouse wants. 

It's not what you wanted, Lucy, but I hope you can start to see that it was inevitable. IF both of you committed to working on things, there was a chance. But now you know for sure that it didn't happen. You are ultimately not responsible for his choices. Like I said, You sent the emails and got angry because he'd already made the choices to leave, emotionally, and later, physically. He didn't have to, but he did.

So now what?, you ask. Feel a little bit of that weight of guilt fall off your shoulders. Know that you deserved better than to be treated like that. That you _deserve_ to be treated better than that now. To have someone who reciprocates your love. Learn from this painful time in your life. Learn who you are and what you will and will not accept for you and your daughter. Work towards being healthy and whole. A friend here on TAM said something that has seemed profound to me: When we are healthier, we attract healthier people. Slowly but surely, I see that happening in my own life. It's kind of weird. I'm not yet used to it, lol.

Keep emptying those feelings of pain and hurt through crying and writing. Start trying to find things to fill the holes left behind with life and positive things. It might be a while before they take root, but they will. And as they do, your feelings about him won't be so raw and overwhelming. You'll feel more peace and calm. Trust me, Lucy. It will happen.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

AP - have you ever considered changing careers and becoming a psycholgist? I'm not being facetious. You really have the touch...


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Actually, I have, Soca. My IC has said the same thing. Either that or social work. It's a matter of time and money.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> Actually, I have, Soca. My IC has said the same thing. Either that or social work. It's a matter of time and money.


My sister does social work. I think you would find counselling more rewarding. Truly, I would look for a way to make that work for you.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Wow, AP -- I really benefitted greatly from that post to Lucy as well! Thank you!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I have been thinking about studying counselling psychology for a long time. Wasn't sure if it was because I needed counselling, or wanted to practice it. Now I know that this hell I'm going through has at least one purpose - to make me stronger and more empathic towards people going through similar grief and horror. 

I'm going to apply to an online program for this September. Hopefully it will be a healing path that can lead me to help others...

Thanks angel. It's the best thing I've read in a long while. I hope you're hanging in there too. You've got grit and purpose and it shows in your thoughtful responses.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Another great thing I've read lately - a quote from Rainer Maria Rilke...

"Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and try o love the questions themselves as if they were written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, for they could not be given you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer."


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Second try here....


So I feel another BIG nail in the coffin after the first counselling session with my ex, since our split six months ago. Tried this instead of mediation to help improve communication...

Damn, is he ever detached and so done, it's callous and cruel but of course he doesn't see it that way. I went in prepared to talk about some big issues for me around the circumstances of the break up (same as in our marriage, I guess, I was always wanting to "clear" hurtful things to be able to move on; he just wanted to sweep it under the rug). I totally ranted and it felt mostly good, except that it reinforced to me how little he cares, how unreceptive and deceitful he continues to be. He's got things all figured out in his mind, so that's the story he's sticking with. Doesn't see how talking with me and coming to some - any - understanding would help us move forward.

The counsellor was super unhelpful, too, seemed like she was on his side, defending him, interrupting me to ask "How is this helpful?" Actually it was super helpful to see how he responded to my questions...maybe a little easier to let go more now, seeing how clueless he is. It definitely hurt to hear him say "I left you so I could start a relationship with someone else," point blank, but **** him. That's so hurtful, and I deserve better even from the person who's leaving me. He was trying to argue about how long we had been together, even, making it seem so casual and that the birth of our daughter was no big deal.

So, Done. Done done done. If I say it enough, will I start to feel it?

I have no idea how this will affect our negotiations at this point. He still wants 5050, I've said no. I feel super uncooperative but know this just keeps me hooked into him. And I have to let go of some of the details around my D7, as long as I can trust she's safe with him. Which I mostly can, though I don't trust him about anything else. 

Ugh, I still feel so hateful. Detach, detach. I feel more ready, but need a reminder of HOW to let go. Punching bag? Letter writing? New relationship?

The horror is fading though I still can't imagine being in this town with him for the next 12 years. One step at a time. 

I want to piss him off so badly, hurt him like he's hurt me, but I know that just keeps me attached.

He smirked and laughed at me in the counselling session. What a loser.

I deserve better and need to focus on how to attract what I want in my life. Deal with my anger. Believe in better times ahead. Damn it's hard but it is getting easier I think...in waves I guess.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

And...how can my heart keep tripping me up? Tried so hard to have a good day...let's say only 70% of my thoughts were related to the separation (ok, more like 85%, but that's a start, down from 100%)

And I'm still stuck at the end of the day, feeling so SAD. Not angry - no matter how many "loser" comments I can make. I can't quite think he's a horrible person. But why, if he was a good person, couldn't he love me? I wasn't so horrible.

I wanted too much from him, it's true. And I still want those things. But I cry for the harsh words I used. We all deserve gentleness and love and I feel like a scam sometimes, professing this to my D when we talk about how to treat people. 

It's such a complicated mess, made far too simple. He left. I'm alone. I don't want to be alone. I deserve love. 

As I find my thoughts moving towards being here, staying in the community, I don't know where to find the strength to deal with seeing him with someone new. Even seeing him at all. It makes my whole body ache to think about. The grief in thinking about the shared values we have, which will potentially lead us to doing the same things, just separate, is more than overwhelming. It's crippling. It's the main reason I feel like I'd have to leave. I guess it's why sometimes people diverge so drastically in their interests and pursuits once they break up.

I've thought about writing a list of all the things that make me think of him. Then slowly trying to reclaim some of them. Like he can't have all of them - some things I will need to take back for myself. Too overwhelming to do right now, though. I feel so alone.

Because moving on seems to require thinking thoughts like "I deserve better" and "What an ******* to treat me that way," but I can't sustain that venom very long. I mean, I do deserve better. But damn it. I wanted to be with him. In moments like these I forget why I don't want to be with him anymore. 

Someone slap me. Then give me a hug.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angelpixie said:


> So now what?, you ask. Feel a little bit of that weight of guilt fall off your shoulders. Know that you deserved better than to be treated like that. That you _deserve_ to be treated better than that now. To have someone who reciprocates your love. Learn from this painful time in your life. Learn who you are and what you will and will not accept for you and your daughter. Work towards being healthy and whole. A friend here on TAM said something that has seemed profound to me: When we are healthier, we attract healthier people. Slowly but surely, I see that happening in my own life. It's kind of weird. I'm not yet used to it, lol.



AP - It's just that - I WAS so healthy when we met. I'm sure it's what attracted him. He said he was drawn to my "motherly" qualities (I was a nanny at the time). Now that sounds like a huge red flag - um, replacement mother, little boy issues? - but I know I was strong and confident and adventurous and independent and I feel like he's all but sucked that out of me (because, of course, once we were together he didn't like those qualities so much...though he wouldn't quite say so...)

So it turned into me the big bad witch and him "escaping" to get away from me...maybe to be healthier for himself. I couldn't steer or encourage him to be healthier, with me...by the end he was a total pot addict and workaholic. No enjoyment in his life, apparently, except that "he's a happy person, and I'm bringing him down." As if. I was always suggesting fun things for us, asking what he wanted to do. Work. More work. 

I'm glad to be done with it (there, the mind's kicking the heart's ass) but still the sting of betrayal, of wasted years, of what could have been if he'd just CARED. But now he's going to bestow that new-and-improved (because he's free from me) caring on someone else. And without all our baggage, that relationship will be so great, won't it?!

I'm overwhelmed by my own baggage. What will a future partner think of it? Good lord.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Did I mention I work with families? So heartbreaking to see them all come in, the attentive dads, and me wondering, why was it so hard for him to be involved, to WANT a family, and how can he have left us?"


(At the same time...what man would ever want to take that job on, knowing how hard it will be? I guess most don't know, then they either rise to the challenge or...leave.)


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Did I mention I work with families? So heartbreaking to see them all come in, the attentive dads, and me wondering, why was it so hard for him to be involved, to WANT a family, and how can he have left us?"


(At the same time...what man would ever want to take that job on, knowing how hard it will be? I guess most don't know, then they either rise to the challenge or...leave.)


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy -

Sorry you are struggling with painful feelings and having a hard time detaching, which I (and many of us here) can certainly relate to.

I'm starting on this book today, and thought I'd share it, in case it may be of help with your healing:

True Refuge: Finding Peace and Freedom in Your Own Awakened Heart (Tara Brach)

Book Description:
"How do you cope when facing life-threatening illness, family conflict, faltering relationships, old trauma, obsessive thinking, overwhelming emotion, or inevitable loss? If you’re like most people, chances are you react with fear and confusion, falling back on timeworn strategies: anger, self-judgment, and addictive behaviors. Though these old, conditioned attempts to control our life may offer fleeting relief, ultimately they leave us feeling isolated and mired in pain.

There is another way. Beneath the turbulence of our thoughts and emotions exists a profound stillness, a silent awareness capable of limitless love. Tara Brach, author of the award-winning Radical Acceptance, calls this awareness our true refuge, because it is available to every one of us, at any moment, no exceptions. In this book, Brach offers a practical guide to finding our inner sanctuary of peace and wisdom in the midst of difficulty.

Based on a fresh interpretation of the three classic Buddhist gateways to freedom—truth, love, and awareness—True Refuge shows us the way not just to heal our suffering, but also to cultivate our capacity for genuine happiness. Through spiritual teachings, guided meditations, and inspirational stories of people who discovered loving presence during times of great struggle, Brach invites us to connect more deeply with our own inner life, one another, and the world around us.

True Refuge is essential reading for anyone encountering hardship or crisis, anyone dedicated to a path of spiritual awakening. The book reminds us of our own innate intelligence and goodness, making possible an enduring trust in ourselves and our lives. We realize that what we seek is within us, and regardless of circumstances, “there is always a way to take refuge in a healing and liberating presence.”"

Feel better. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Warm Regards, A12


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> He left. I'm alone. I don't want to be alone. I deserve love.


Hi Lucy - 

I really struggle with the adjustment of living alone, too, missing the companionship and intimacy and sharing of our lives together. Even when I do all the right things to get outside of my head, be social and not isolate -- like yesterday, I was at an event with a bunch of fun people from my gym, all afternoon -- it still stings coming home to the empy house (well, not quite -- thank God for my cats!) 

I have to have the TV or stereo on at almost all times to fill up the quiet. In the mornings, I have found it helps to put on soothing classical music first thing, right up until I leave for work. And on weekends whenever I am home during the day (most evenings I have the TV on, watching a show, sports match or movie). I also read a lot (you can't beleive how may "self-help" and spiritual books are on my Kinlde - LOL!

It is good that you keep processing here -- it will help with you healing to get it all out. It is hard to see whn you are in the midst of it, but please know you will get through this rough patch -- one moment, one day, at a time -- and move on to a better place where you won't feel so pulled by the pain of this major upheaval.

Hugs (and a spanking!), - A12


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Also, here's my happy positivity song I play when I'm feeling down in the dumps:

Two Door Cinema Club - Something Good:

Two Door Cinema Club - Something Good Can Work Lyrics - YouTube


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks so much, A12. Good music certainly helps. I enjoy Florence and the Machine - Dog Days are Over - when I'm in need of a pick me up. 

Florence + The Machine - Dog Days Are Over (2010 Version) - YouTube

(though sometimes I don't want to be picked up...just to wallow...hoping somehow that by wallowing I will get it all out, reach the end of the sludge i'm wading through, so to speak).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> Thanks so much, A12. Good music certainly helps. I enjoy Florence and the Machine - Dog Days are Over - when I'm in need of a pick me up.
> 
> Florence + The Machine - Dog Days Are Over (2010 Version) - YouTube
> 
> (though sometimes I don't want to be picked up...just to wallow...hoping somehow that by wallowing I will get it all out, reach the end of the sludge i'm wading through, so to speak).


Resist the temptation to wallow. The sludge only gets deeper.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hey Lucy and A12 -- 

A12 -- good book suggestion. I would suggest reading up on Radical Acceptance, too. That concept is very difficult, but I think it's very necessary to be able to go forward in a situation we never wanted. There are many ways life can throw that at us: illness, natural disaster, financial ruin, death of a loved one, and of course, loss of a spouse through death or divorce. 

Lucy --

Your mediation session sounded horrible. And your 'counselor' should be ashamed of herself. There's no way, in a first session, that she should be taking sides. She should have learned that it is way too easy for someone with a manipulative personality to put on a fake personality. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

You don't have to be actually vengeful, but even going for what is best for you and D will probably seem vengeful to him. Who cares. Go after what you need and what you really feel is best for D. It is hard to do, but you may indeed have to let go a little bit of what happens when she's with him. I know it's still hard for me, over 1 1/2 years out. KNowing that he and posGF create the appearance of a 'complete' family with DS still hurts a lot. And since I don't agree with how they're living their lives, it's really hard for me not to be able to say anything. It's nothing that is against the law or hurtful to DS, just I don't agree with some of it from an ethical/moral standpoint. I have to let that go. 

As to your feelings of hurt vs. anger, you'll probably have some of both for a long time, and the levels of which one is stronger will likely change back and forth often. But I'd caution you not to own his issues, or to take the blame for how he 'turned out.' He is and has been an adult from the time you got together. Changing the history of your relationship is part and parcel of the walkaway spouse script. They have to justify what they're doing. Of course, it's not their fault, so who is at fault? The spouse they're leaving, obviously. And as long as you accept his blame, he'll be happy to give you more and more. And I don't necessarily mean to vocally (or in writing) tell him that you don't believe you're at fault, but just to not accept that within yourself. When he starts unloading on you, listen to him with that detachment that allows you to see that he'd do this to anyone he was walking away from. It's not personal to YOU -- it's part of how he does things. He'll do this in the future. Have no doubt. 

Something struck me about one of your posts above, Lucy. 


lucy mulholland said:


> AP - It's just that - I WAS so healthy when we met. I'm sure it's what attracted him. He said he was drawn to my "motherly" qualities (I was a nanny at the time). Now that sounds like a huge red flag - um, replacement mother, little boy issues? - *but I know I was strong and confident and adventurous and independent and I feel like he's all but sucked that out of me (because, of course, once we were together he didn't like those qualities so much...though he wouldn't quite say so...)*


You went through health problems, and he wasn't there for you. But you still forgave, and tried so hard to help him. You are a caregiver. These things actually do point to some things you might want to look at in yourself. I know the term 'co-dependent' gets thrown around here a lot, but there are some pieces that seem to fit here. He was attracted to your caretaking, and you continued to be a caretaker of _him_, but not of yourself -- leaving you sapped when he left. You were used up, because all of your 'self' was poured into him and your marriage. That's one reason why the break-up is so hard. For those people who maintained a healthy, separate self during their marriage, their recovery seems to be much, much faster. They have a base 'self' from which to begin again. It doesn't feel so much like the walkaway spouse took two lives out the door -- his and yours.

I'd look into that more with your IC, Lucy. In all of my own IC, group, reading, and countless hours on TAM, I've seen this over and over. We gave out signals that attracted our spouses, and there were things about them that we found attractive. Including, at times, those things that were dysfunctional. 

No, you couldn't push him to be healthy because it is his choice alone. That's why boundaries are so important. I see this so clearly this time around. And yet, all of the things we read on the way to marriage talk about joining, and entwining, and two becoming one and all of that crap. That, as we now sadly know, is a recipe for disaster. You are not responsible for the choices he made. You did your best with what you knew at the time, but you were coming from a place where you lost yourself by trying to change him into something he wasn't. I can see that with my ex, too. Sure, I see things now that I wish he'd done when we were together and it kind of pisses me off to see him doing them with his posGF, but I also see much more of the things that I really disliked about him coming out and into the foreground. He's letting his true self out, and with the bit of detachment I've achieved, I wonder why the hell I stayed so long.

Don't look at yourself as damaged goods, Lucy. Believing that is a sure way to attract someone looking for someone he can control and abuse. You've been through a lot. Work hard on fixing that damage and healing from this. When you do, you will not be attractive to an abuser. He will know that you are not his 'type' and he'll stay away. You'll be attractive to (and attracted to) healthier people. You'll be able to catch those red flags and walk away. We all have baggage, Lucy. But now that we know better, it's up to us to deal with it. You are a smart woman. You can do this. Start looking at things with a little more logic and detachment and not so much through emotions.

((hugs)) to you, hon.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

It's all such work, hey? Like I could quit my job and agree to 50-50 and still not have enough time to myself, to read all there is to read, to journal and meditate and process it all. Life.

Thanks A12, openminded and AP. I feel a bit schizophrenic posting here is all different moods, but I know that's how its going to go. I can feel the tiniest hint of detachment, just in knowing that I deserve better and that maybe I wasn't ever going to get that form him, so no point wishing backwards.

Re: codependency...I'm not afraid of the labels, and I do think there are some parallels. But I have to say I wasn't really in the caretaker mode...more in the independent mode, let's do our own thing side by side and connect about the important stuff. He pulled away constantly on an emotional level, and I put up with it. He did good with the basics and even went beyond in terms of doing things around the home for me. But I wasn't satisfied emotionally...he wasn't fully present...and the reasons why have NOTHING to do with me. Or if they did, ie. I got angry, showed emotions - it was his choice to back away rather than move towards me and attempt understanding and empathy.

I feel like I'm needing to prepare to see him around with someone else - any advice on dealing with that? I can't wish it away, and I'm just waiting for my D to mention something...

Give me strength (I say to the heavens...)


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> I feel like I'm needing to prepare to see him around with someone else - any advice on dealing with that? I can't wish it away, and I'm just waiting for my D to mention something...
> 
> Give me strength (I say to the heavens...)


Hmmm. I felt like I had to do that, too. Luckily (?) for me, once they went public, they loved putting pics of themselves all over FB.  I didn't have to go far to find them. I could just look at them over and over, cry til I threw up, until it didn't hurt as much. I was also still journaling, TAMing, IC'ing, etc., so that helped, too. But _seeing_ the photos was something I had to do on my own, on my own schedule. Like you, I didn't want to turn a corner and see them. I didn't want them to get any satisfaction from some spontaneous reaction I might have. It did help. There were still surprises, of course. Going into 'our' house to get something from DS' room (with Ex's knowledge and OK), not knowing she was in the house (and had been there all night - she doesn't have a car, so I didn't have any clue), and coming to the top of the stairs to see her in 'my' bathroom, doing her hair and make-up. That was a big one. But since I'd already been doing my 'prep' work, I was able to feel it, get angry, post about it here, maybe even cry (I don't remember - by then, maybe I wasn't so much anymore), and I moved on. My IC questioned the wisdom, but for me, I think it helped. I hate those surprises. I'd rather be prepared at least a little bit. 

You might want to talk to your IC about things you can do.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angel - I've already imagined as much as I can stand. I have WAY too good an imagination. I imagine sex, connection, laughter, and paint everything with a rosy brush, of course. Self torture! Why am I so good at it? Maybe I'm also trying to steel myself for when it really comes?

But even as I write this I feel more detached...for now. Like I'm pretty awesome and even though attaching a first "face" to his next lover will be hard, he's still a sad loser and I deserve better. And will look for and find better. So there.

(In real time, this translates to me avoiding a lot of places I think I'd see him, for now, and planning to spend most of the summer away...)

I can't imagine how painful it must have been to see your ex's new person in your own house. What a nightmare. And so gross. You are pretty amazing. I seriously can't imagine it.

Have I mentioned that my ex's posOW called me last week wondering if I could "make time" to talk with her? Ha Ha Ha Ha...


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

PS. You didn't unfriend him on FB? I waited too long for that...about two months...and I got bit HARD by what I (admittedly) went looking for...


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Actually, I still haven't. I've just blocked him. In the past, we shared photos of DS that way. Truth is, it doesn't really matter to me. We each have small businesses that have their own FB pages. I unfriended his last summer, and he noticed and brought it up to me, trying to make me feel guilty, as he didn't unfriend mine. 

I mainly don't because in the minds of him and his family and friends, it would only make me look worse. Like I'm somehow immature and unable to move on. If it wasn't for the continuing necessity of dealing with them due to DS, I seriously wouldn't have given a flying fvck (pardon my French), and unfriended the lot, but since they're all blocked from my feed, I never see anything of their lives anyway. I stopped looking at his page last summer. 

And posOW doesn't deserve your time. BUT -- since I'm in the middle of this right now, let me give you a little heads-up. Make sure you let him know from the very beginning that anyone he gets involved with will have absolutely no decision-making power where your DD is concerned. Ever. That he is to remember that you, and only you, are DD's co-parent. Demand that respect. Ex has declared to me that posGF is his 'life partner' and has seemed to have forgotten that that doesn't equal 'Second Mom to DS.' I have reminded him of that. He accused me of being negative. I just reiterated what I said. It's not negative, just the truth.

And yeah, I had loads of mind-movies, too, and my imagination never needs help. But actually seeing the photos was different for me. Obv more real. I work hard on compartmentalizing them. If my mind starts to go there, thinking about what their life is like, etc., I just literally close that door in my mind and walk away. It helps.


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## Camelia (May 2, 2013)

I can sort of relate to you about the families. I don't miss that aspect so much because I think my stbxh actually does more stuff with our children did before. What gets me is seeing happy couples who have been married as long or longer than were, and movies. Movies where people are mushy gushy in love make me cry, so now I just avoid them. Hang in there Lucy Mullholland! Makes me think it must be a character name in a book


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angel,

i understand completely where you're coming from about insisting the OW can't have a say in your DD's life. you're so far ahead and i can't imagine having to contemplate that. but in a rare moment of level-headed maturity (or so i think), isn't it fair to think that the person, if it is a serious relationship, may be another influence on your D?

i know that's harsh to hear, and i'm not trying to stir things up.

i just realize, that where i'm going with my future - i want a partner who WILL help me co-parent my D. though her dad will inevitably be involved and probably have an influence that i always, slightly resent (especially if he's with another woman who's trying to parent my child) -- I want someone in my house, in my life, who's committed to me and through that, able to help support me in parenting my D. especially as she gets older! i really don't want to do it alone. 

on this one point, i can see how my X deserves the same. though i can't imagine how much conflict it has the potential to stir up...


and in real life time, i've already been SOOOO tempted to tell him i don't want certain people around her, including the posOW (their relationship was "on the table" according to him, eww). she's not dangerous so i have no "legal" basis for it, but i just don't appreciate her influence on my child. influencing my XH was enough.

so there you go. so many things coming at us, all the time. so hard to build up strength to take it all and keep dealing, while also staying open to the good that can come. to not shut off completely and give up on life and love...that's the challenge.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Even more than I hate the part of the break-up that concerned our actual relationship, I hate how this spills over to our son. It's been sooooo hard for me to let go of any control I have over DS when he's with his dad. I was never crazy about his dad's friends. And of course, posGF was one of those friends. He's forgotten that before she became his 'life partner' she was living with a friend of his, and he was plenty critical of her. Now, he's idealized her, so she can do no wrong. 

DS does like her, and she does seem to care about him and treat him well enough. I give her that. It could be a lot worse. But Ex got the idea that somehow they each get a 'vote' now in big things to do with DS' life, like where he goes to school, etc. They don't. There are only 2 'votes' - Ex's and mine. If he allows her to influence him, that's his choice, but the two of them together equal one vote. The have been treating me as if what they think has twice as much sway because there are two of them and one of me, and in fact treat me in general as if they are better than I am because they have each other and I'm without a partner. It's damned frustrating. The thing we're involved with now, for background purposes, is that they decided that DS should be homeschooled. They worked out the schedule (including how my work schedule could change and what subjects I can teach), and let DS know this was even a possibility, all before approaching me about it. I have had to stand up for myself and what I believe to be best for DS. It made Ex mad that I wasn't including posGF in our initial discussion, but I wanted to establish that boundary with him. She may have opinions, and things to add, but that's it. No matter how much she cares about DS, she will never feel the same as I do about him. And for Ex to even think that's possible, just because they are relationship partners, is an example of his disconnect from reality. 

I would not get involved with someone who wouldn't understand that DS is first with me until he's on his own. Would I take his opinion on things to do with DS? I'd listen just as I'd take the advice of a friend or family member, but unless there's something harmful or illegal going on with Ex, there's no reason a boyfriend of mine should get as much say in DS' life as his father does.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angelpixie said:


> The have been treating me as if what they think has twice as much sway because there are two of them and one of me, and in fact treat me in general as if they are better than I am because they have each other and I'm without a partner. It's damned frustrating. The thing we're involved with now, for background purposes, is that they decided that DS should be homeschooled. They worked out the schedule (including how my work schedule could change and what subjects I can teach), and let DS know this was even a possibility, all before approaching me about it. I have had to stand up for myself and what I believe to be best for DS. It made Ex mad that I wasn't including posGF in our initial discussion, but I wanted to establish that boundary with him. She may have opinions, and things to add, but that's it. No matter how much she cares about DS, she will never feel the same as I do about him. And for Ex to even think that's possible, just because they are relationship partners, is an example of his disconnect from reality.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Now that's freaking annoying! The old two-is-better-than-one bull****! Wow, makes me almost proud to be single. What a load of crap. I commend you for standing up to that strongly, setting boundaries, and staying connected to what's important. I think I'd lose my head over that one!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Officially past the six months mark today. I can say I had a GOOD day today. I felt strong and the thoughts that have haunted me so much lately, just didn't hold in my brain. I felt attractive, calm, and even optimistic. Nothing special happened, but it was good.

Now, though, it's evening and the exhaustion is setting in. It's tiring, being strong! I caught a few pics of my ex and I as I skimmed through my online photos- didn't mean to - and it's like the writing is on the wall: we just look mismatched. That's so painful to say.

BUt part of my good day today was realizing how wrong so many things were with us. I accepted some of it, I asked, pleaded and then raged that some of it could change, but there's a certain truth wiggling its way into my consciousness, like maybe it was wrong form the start? No, I don't believe that, nor do I believe that just because we got married young (25 and 27) and had our daughter a year before that, means that our relationship was doomed.

My X is 31 now, and sure, it looks like he's just ready to have his freedom and a new path ahead of him. He's got lots of time. How did I have myself so convinced that he was in it with me? The signs were there, for sure. It still feels like a waste of my time, because I think he was holding back.

So I need to be able to wipe the slate clean somehow, without too much bitterness. His actions when we were together were not those of someone working on being together, and there's no point in even going over it now. I can be sad about the things I wanted to do with him, but I didn't want to do them if it meant him continuing to treat me the way he was - not allowing me to be a real person, to really want to hear me and my dreams. I miss the complimentary way his work ethic, his creativity, worked with mine, but I feel the judgment in him, for all those ways that I was different from him. He wasn't accepting, and yet, he says he wasn't getting acceptance from me.

So maybe we both failed in that respect. But to me, the emotional foundation of our relationship was shaky, needed help, and I trusted we could work on that. He's the kind of person - and I know there are lots out there - who wanted it to just "be" connected, passionate, whatever, without acknowledging it sometimes takes work to get there. How can you expect real intimacy from someone if you spend your time shutting them down?

I was so open. I want to be open and healthy for someone else again. I know I will be. The logistics may be a bit of a nightmare to work out but I have to believe there is a silver lining to all this. If only I can shrug off too many more memories, or present-encounters, with him.

Still thinking about moving away. Thinking a lot about my work, my as-of-yet unfulfilled desires, and as much as I want to hook into him and issues a big Fvuk You for his lack of support and his leaving, I need to try my best to direct that energy forward. 

I'm tired of feeling drained (almost) all the time.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Lucy - you may not be registering this but you are sounding better...Keep it up!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I agree, Soca -- I was thinking the same thing!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks you guys! It's all about training your brain to NOT GO THERE. Today I was about 40% successful but at least I had a good friend to drink wine with after work.

I feel real love for this forum at the moment. Thanks.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Well, you can all say "I told you so". Just got a handwritten note, delivered to my house while I wasn't here, from the woman who was my friend, who said she didn't have romantic feeling for my ex (when he told me before he even left that there was a relationship on the table with her) -- the note says she changed her mind, and that she doesn't mean to hurt me, but believes that the Great Spirit has a path for us all in mind. Makes me want to give up on the Great Spirit (I think she has a different one)...

So, am I shocked? Not really. I think I knew. But it's still so much bull**** and disrespect. 

Now I have a new appreciation for those of you who have to deal with a fulll blown affair. Mine was just the coward's style, combined with enough New Age bull**** to make you puke.

OH MY GOD. Why did I ever get tangled up with these idiots?

Also, tonight is the first night she's spending with her dad. The OW sure knows how to time it just right, hey? BUt she's not trying to hurt me, she cares about me still whether I believe it or not. Sorry, I don't need that kind of caring in my life.

I am so naive and trusting. Damn it.

Ewwwwwwwww.........


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I hate my life. I hate that I have to parent with him. I hate that this woman has any contact with my child and I hate that there are so many people out there who believe following your heart means doing things like this, that hurt other people to the core.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm so sorry, Lucy. My heart aches for you -- a double betrayal. It is bullsh!t that people think that anything they do must be right if they feel it in their hearts. 

I don't have any magic words to make you feel better. I wish I did. Don't hate your whole life. There are parts of it that monumentally suck right now, I know. But it's not done, therefore, there is always time for it to be better. You are seeing these two people for who they are -- who they've always been, deep inside. It doesn't make anything feel great right now, but you are getting rid of them both, for the most part, from your life. Yes, you still have to co-parent with him. That sucks more than anything. A break-up when you have kids is soooooo different from a break-up without kids. 

If you're anything like me (and I think you kind of are, lol), it's going to take all you can do not to punch them both in the face when you see them together (or maybe her in the face and him in the balls). I was allllll over the place when I had to start dealing with that. I wrote about it a lot in my old thread. What made a lot of it worse for me were my horrible feelings about myself. I've always had crappy self-esteem, so it was hard for me to hold my head high around them. Now that I'm feeling better and stronger in my 'self' I am better able to deal with them. And I think it's helping me not to hurt so much or be so angry about them being together and me being alone. I see them for who they are, and realize that especially, he disgusts me and she can have him. They are cheaters and they deserve each other. I deserve better than someone who is unfaithful, dishonest, and abusive. If she wants him, she can have him.

That has helped me be stronger when it comes to my role as Mom, too. It all ties in together. It's taken me a long time and a lot of work to get here.

What we need to do for you, Lucy, is to get you to that point where you are OK with yourself. Period. With him, without him, whatever. Then you will be able to deal with him as you have to, but to not let it ruin your life.

And hopefully, the Karma Bus will come along and take out our WS's and their posGFs at some point, too.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Seriously. It HAS to get better after this.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I just want to get out of town so I don't have to see them around. They make me want to puke.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Just feeling lonely tonight...that awful pit in my stomach. D spent her first night with her dad this week and it was okay, I guess. 

Not it's like I'm just waiting to see him around with his "new" woman, the one he left me for but maybe probably didn't wait to get with until now (6 months later). 

But on some level it's starting to feel irrelevant. Like I'm more mad at myself for being with him at all, someone who could turn on me like this. But I can't change that. 

I'm tired. I'm making the decision to leave town for the summer and visit friends and family. And to insist to him, as we go into hopefully signing a sep. agreement this month, that I still want the option of moving. 

I need to find energy for what may be a big emotional/psychological battle (if only within myself, to heal and move on and not get too nasty).


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

If you can get away for a while to rest and get some perspective, do it. Especially if it's with supportive, nurturing people. Being out of that physical environment alone will probably do you a world of good. Different surroundings for a while, something different for your senses to absorb. I think it's a great idea.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Hoping I can, angel, with a little cooperation (did I use that word?) from the ex. I almost feel like I have it in me now to suck up and not loathe myself for doing so. Just to get what I want, of course


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Hey there,

Feeling stronger for a few days now, since I heard about the confirmed relationship (that started as an EA) from none other than the OW herself.

Mostly needing to focus on the logistics of my next moves: getting a separation agreement in place (negotiations about access, summer plans, money) and figuring out how badly I want to move.

I'm getting lots of advice along the lines of, Just move, and call his bluff (re: a court order to keep me here or make me come back once I do move). Legally I need to give him 60 days notice, which would be July 1, for a Sept 1 move. 

I'm strongly considering it so just looking within for the strength to make the right decision and stick with it, and also looking for a little support form anyone out there who's had a similar experience (or not, but wants to chip in).

Thanks!


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Hey there,
> 
> Feeling stronger for a few days now, since I heard about the confirmed relationship (that started as an EA) from none other than the OW herself.
> 
> ...




Hi Lucy -

First of all, how dreadful that the OW had the nerve to contact you in any way, let alone with the pretense of caring about you and trying to justify her betrayl - SICK! Your inclination to move sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I don't know the logistics or geography of your area, but it there some way you could relocate to a place far enough to be away from them, but close enough to make custody-sharing feasible? I know the custody sharing (on whatever terms that works out) is going to be hard -- that forced tie with your WS -- but you have to think of what's best for you and your own needs (he certainly didn't hesitate to put himself first!). 

AP gives some of the best advice on this forum -- I'd listen to her  Don't be his victim or the little girl who needs to be rescued. I know it stinks, but now is the time to stand up for yourself, hold your head high, and know you will get through this with grace and dignity. We all know how tough it is to manage our lives taking a different direction than we imagined --the roller coaster of emotions and the sheer logistical challenges the breakup of a marriage entails. But you have lots of living to do, and we've all seen your outgoing, spirited resilient side -- you have it in you to take charge of your life, and you will!

Take care and keep us posted.

Hugs,- A12


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi, Lucy. You do sound stronger in yesterday's post, but I know it still hurts, knowing your suspicions were true about OW. You are thinking of taking DD with you when you move, right? Do you think he will push for 50/50 custody if you do this, or do you think he'll pull back on that because of the relationship? It's really sad to think of this, but if he seems like he's willing to let you, in order to protect his new relationship, jump on it. If he's besotted with OW, chances are very good that DD is going to get the short end of the stick anyway. The more time the two of you can be together, the better for both of you. BUT -- don't mention his relationship to him while you're negotiating. It will be the quickest way for him to decide to battle you. 

Do you have a specific area in mind? Prospective job in a new place? I think the better, more complete plan you can have when discussing with a lawyer or mediator or judge, the better it will look for you. If he's just a dipsh!t who's kind of directionless in his life, there will be an obvious difference between the two of you. Keep yourself looking strong, capable, and especially, cool. Believe me, I KNOW how hard this will be around him and OW. It may sound silly, but promise yourself a reward every time you can get through an encounter without losing your cool. And focus on YOUR future. The more you can do that, the less concerned you can be with what's happening with his. We want to get you to the point where he's just 'some guy' that you have to deal with. Dispassionate, no memories intruding when you have an encounter. *You can get there.* It's just a matter of relearning behaviors and reactions that have become automatic. A12 is totally right: you are spirited and resilient and outgoing, and these qualities will serve you (and DD) very well as you go forward.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks for the support and kindness! I feel a little spirited today (or was it the coffee?) I just lost a reply I wrote where I basically talked myself out of responding to the OW's note, even if to tell her she can take her caring and shove it up her ass. 

Also I realize I shouldn't say anything to him, at least, not yet. Wait til these negotiations get worked out. 

We move out in a month. Lots to do. I have applied for a couple jobs in the place I want to move. It's 7 hours away. He could come see her as often as he wants; I'd be willing to drive her back once a month. I'm also wanting to go back to school (though the school is an hour away or could be online, too) There's a good school in town for my D. And my aunt lives there. I'm going to visit (alone!) next weekend. 

I just don't want to seem unreliable because I'm taking the summer to visit friends and family and decide my next steps. He's moving into a place of his own (all the better to have the OW over uninterrupted) and may look more stable, even though he's self employed with unreliable income. Better than me being unemployed, even if it is something I can afford. The law doesn't seem to care at all about psychological health. 

He's made it clear he doesn't want me to move with D, though. "It's not negotiable" is what he said. And this is since the whole "new" relationship was revealed. It's not really new, though, right, it was "on the table" before he even moved out. Now it's just rubbed in my face. 

In other news, I went to kickboxing last week and sparred with a cute man who was flirting, or at least, responding in a playful and sparkling way. I'm going to go back next week and see what happens. 

Loving the song "Listen to your heart" by Cuff the Duke right now. Check it out. It's so upbeat and optimistic.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy - 

Great to hear you are feeling better today! Your plans in terms of the move sound perfectly reasonable AND, in terms custorday sharing, yes, negotiable! What is he smoking to say you can't share custody from a distance, espcailyl when he's the one who ditched the marriage?

Good on you for doing the kickboxing class -- awesome! A great opportunity to practice flirting and interacting with the menfolk

Thanks for sharing that band and track -- I had not heard of them, but checked them out and they're great!

Have a nice Sunday, and take care.

Best,- A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

He smokes a lot of pot.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> He smokes a lot of pot.


Oh, great -- he's a piece of work!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Yeah, he thinks it "brings out the truth." Or was he high when he said that? So I shouldn't believe him? Or should I? Welcome to a snapshot of my life with him.

Feeling better that it's over. Still sore, but tangibly healing. I just need to wrestle a bit with this "the universe gives you what you need" and "maybe spirit did want them to be together," new agey bull**** that pisses me off because i'm a pretty spiritual person and this takes it too far, takes human thought and consideration out of the picture, as if we all just need to give in to spirit and the way will be clear. 

Is part of my problem that i'm okay with a bit of conflict? That I don't expect life to be nothing but roses, and actually welcome the opportunity to greet that and try to deal with it? So that's what I get. But I still welcome it.

For the record, I'd also welcome a tall loving man who can see me cry and not fall apart himself, who can take me in his arms without needing to ask me if that's okay, who wants to build a house with me and cook me dinners and work with me through the joys and woes of (step) parenting, who will also lean on me and open up to me and get excited about building a life with me. Like, actually, talk about the future with me in excited tones, and believe it, instead of saying "we'll have to wait and see..."

I am attracting that man. Starting now. Just sayin...

(In other news, I sent THE email, the one where I say I DO want to move away from this town, even though I know he doesn't want it. I'm also heading out of town for the weekend, to visit the place I want to move. I took the spare keys out of their hiding place in our yard, just on instinct. We'll see how he reacts...I'll report back next week.)

Peace to you all this evening.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

He's still saying he's not going to budge on the move. What do people think?

SHould I call his bluff and go anyway? Then he can get me on kidnapping. Or give him notice like the law asks, and have him potentially slap me with a non-removal order? It would get nasty and be out of our hands at that point. 

This is all so ****ty. I have so many friends saying, just go, or, why won't he let you, he's the one who left? But he's so righteous and not willing to compromise. 

Also, today I got the delightful treat of hearing form my D how she sent most of the weekend (my first away form her since the split) with her dad, his new ***** and her daughter. could he not have even waited and spent that time solely with our D, knowing she would be missing me? she was so upset both one night when i was away (wouldn't talk to me on the phone) and tonight over dinner. she said "i'm still so upset that you and papa are split up."

I'm caring less and less about him every day, but it kills me that this is stressing my daughter. I don't think divorce is "ok" for the kids, and here, I get to live it for the next X years. 

He is such a ****er.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

here's an email i'm about to send him about summer plans and car sharing:

So you will be back on the evening of the 25th? after this past weekend and Eowyn and I chatting about it, I'm nervous to send her off again so soon. I would hope to find every way possible to make it an easier thing for her.

I'm sorry you feel that taking the car was complicated. It didn't have to be. I surmise you have other reasons for wanting your own car so quickly, but if you want to blame it on me, that's okay. It doesn't bother me. I'm also sorry you can't find a way to contribute something, even a token amount, to the repairs. I have been responsible for maintaining the car for these past months, but that doesn't mean I can't ask for help.

I would be gone from roughly the 7th of August to the 3rd or 4th of september.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

hit a bit of a slump today. it feels so complicated. i feel so complicated. cycling through grief, shock (still!), a bit of jealousy, sheer rage at him for making it seem like he's got it made in this ****ing small town.

and i'm exhausted, preparing to move, be on the road for most of the summer, which will be fun but perhaps also unsettling. still not sure if i have the courage to make the big move without his consent, perhaps inviting the courts to get involved (only if he does, that is). 

any kind words or a gentle kick in the ass would be appreciated. i'm so tired of all this.

can i mention i also feel a bit hopeless about finding new love? why is it so easy for him (even if they are both flaky morons) - flaunting their new togetherness with my daughter and the OW's daughter, like they're some kind of ****ing family - when i know i'm a strong, good person who didn't ditch my marriage. and yet i feel somehow so unsure about how attraction, love and commitment even work. do they work?

despair.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy - 

Sorry you're feeling a bit down -- it happens to the best of us at times. Try to roll with it and be gentle with yourself. Stay focused in today and keep doing the next right thing a day at a time -- the answers will come. No use in worrying about the future and the prospects of finding a new love. When the time is right and you are ready, a new love will find you  

So are you definitely moving, selling or renting your home? But you will be on the road for the summer? Just by way of clarification, are you moving, travelling or both this summer? What about your daughter, is she coming with you at least part of the time?

Taking care of the practicalities of life, while setting yourself up for launching a new chapter on the best possible footing -- plus taking extra good care of yourself -- will be your best bet. For me, I cannot afford to rummage around in the past, nor linger in self-pity. Both are toxic to me and keep me stuck. I still go through moments of hurt every day from the loss of my husband and marriage, but I try not to nurture and linger in those thoughts -- I do something to "change the channel" and get out of my head, even something as simple as going to the library, inviting a friend out for coffee, going for a leisurely bike ride, cleaning house like mad (!!!) -- you get the idea.

Hang in there and feel better!

Cheers, - A12


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Lucy, here's one for you, from an FB page I subscribe to:

"It’s time to be bold. It’s time to stop reading the previous chapter of your life and start writing the one you’re currently living. Learn from your old mistakes and march confidently on. Sure you’ll make new mistakes along the way, but that’s the whole point – you want to learn from new mistakes, not rot alongside old ones.

Living means taking chances that are worth taking and making mistakes that are worth making. Right now is simply a new chance to get it right, but you have to let go and take this chance."

-- via: 10 Things You Think About Too Often

(((Hugs))), - A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

A12 - thank you.

We are moving - started today with my dad and his wife, while D spends the day with her dad. Good to be distracted, working hard carrying boxes up and down stairs! Stuff going into storage, move out at the end of the month, to be rooted at a friend's place in town but coming and going to do some visiting around the province, maybe out East for a wedding.

Then Sept. 1 comes and I'll have to know (by Aug 1 really) where I'm going to land. I want to relocate to a town 7 hours away, closer to a city with friends and in the same town as family, lots of good memories, and the chance to make many more. X still refusing to negotiate. I've been advised by loads of people to just go anyway. 

Anxiety through the roof when I think about it, hope the first few weeks of summer visiting clears my head so I can decide. Ack! 

Got to let go of the "hate that this is my life, I never wanted this" attitude which is still lurking in the corners of my brain...feel so sick to my stomach and exhausted by it all.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

and what the ****? he can't even spend FATHER'S DAY one-on-one with his daughter? has to invite the ****ing ***** and her daughter too? this is so much more bull**** than i ever thought i would have to handle... just when i thought i could deal with the details of her time with him, just the two of them, without it tearing my heart apart, now i get to hear about this disgusting woman and her D. 
it makes me see RED! and goodness, help me from not writing anything to him in this state of mind.

how dare he compromise his time with his D like this? what a loser.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

i am glad that i'm not with him, so why is this driving me so crazy?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hey, Lucy - If you're like me, you had ideas and notions of what you wanted your child's father to be like. Even if your marriage didn't work out (and who even thought that way when choosing a spouse), you still figure they'll be that same parent you thought they'd be (or hoped/wanted them to be). I was, no, AM still similarly pissed off at the way our son can never seem to get one-on-one time with his father. But, it makes more sense to me when I look at it as part of the total change in him. Your values haven't changed, but his have -- not just regarding marriage, but also fatherhood. Those shared values we thought we'd be teaching our kids together may not be part of the picture anymore. Obviously so when it comes to teaching about things like relationships, commitment, fidelity, etc. 

So it makes sense why it makes you angry, but don't bother to tell him about it. #1: It won't make him behave better, and #2: It may actually become a way he can get back at you, because he knows itbothers you. The fact that this would hurt your D obviously won't stop him, or he'd be a less-selfish dad in the first place. 

Share your anger here. Lots of us with runaway spouses (male and female) understand.

About your move: are you just taking D with you, signing her up for school, etc.? Is your strategy that doing this before you have an agreement in place will makeit less likely for a judge to force you to share custody? (not wanting to force D to switch schools, etc.?)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Now he's changing the plans to take D to see his parents, a 12 hour drive away, at the last minute. Says he wants to spend "special" time just with her, camping and fishing. As he has very little money and I have the camping gear, I suspect he wants to go with the OW and her D. So I said no. Said if he wants special time he can make his time with her a priority rather than share her.

So he knows it's a wound - how could he not?

He's also sticking firm to the big NO to me moving - and yes, I'd be taking my D. There's so much emotional bull**** being brought up now. I actually want to be done with it - and just be able to move. 

He's saying things like"I left because I was profoundly unhappy with the dynamic between us..." as if I wasn't unhappy to, but loved him and wanted to work on "the dynamic" (you'll remember he was conflict avoidant...big issue-avoidant...)

Also calling this latest move I want to do just one more of my "impulses" (except that we planned the two other moves for a long time, the ones he's also labelling as impulses).

It's so infuriating.

I'm thinking I should just go in September, set up a house and a job, school for my D, etc, and then let him know. He may haul my ass to court but he may not. If he's not willing to negotiate and I'm not willing to stay, what else can we do?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

God, why am I listening to Adele? So not helping.

But I've come here to vent. I am so beside myself with frustration at this situation. I don't know if moving away is best. But I'd sure like the option.

I'm still in shock, a wave of it just hit me - how, in just over six months, my whole life had been taken from me and my "ex" is so solidly positioned himself with his work, his new woman (who he works with) who even has a daughter the same age as ours.

It makes me so sick. And then he's trying to stop me from doing what I need to to move on (which may mean, moving away from this community). 

Reading about the law on this issues makes me so mad, because it seems he could actually win if he took me to court over this. WTF! He's in the wrong. He left, he didn't put a lot of emphasis on D's best interests through these last six months, and now he thinks he knows what's best for her?

He's a fvcking psycho in my opinion, with no empathy. It's so disgusting and chilling and horrifying to me still, that I ever even had intimacy with this person. I'm feeling so blown open again by these awful hurts, the shock of it all, the inability it creates for me to get on with my life. 

I hate him. I wish I never met him. Everytime my daughter is upset I want to blame him. This is my worst nightmare, truly.

(I know, I should be grateful my D is healthy. I am. I love her so much, but it brings up such pain to think of how shuffled around she'll be, how disconnected her dad and I are, and really, let's be honest, what an ******* he's been. Sucks for her to be related to that crap.)


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Hi ya Lucy . Sorry l've missed your thread would've liked to have been there in support going on this.
The children thing is so hard , l so feel your words in this.
A marriage would have to be preeeeettty bad before l thought it'd be better to put my girl through this bs let me tell you.
It always amazes me that very few children threads go very far , l find that mind boggling . lt's by far the biggest thing in all of this to me and yet no one but you , me , one or two others even mentions that shuffling. That stuff really breaks my heart to , so deeply.
Yet l get people saying well why do you spend one night a week over there around x , arrrr , to save my d more shuffling that's fkg why . But no one gets it.
They're more interested in me 180'ing x than me trying to help my d through all this when it's nothing to do with her it's her idiot parents yet they get it , ware it , for the rest of their child hood . Seems incomprehensible to me that no one ever brings this up Instead here they are arguing about the poor bloody kids have to do this and must do that -wk on /off or 50/50 or whatever the hell. No one even mentions the poor bloody children themselves in this though , can never believe it. 

Then they tell me l should move a couple of hours away from x - ummm , l have a daughter :rofl: !!!

l'm so sorry for your pain and confusion too. Haven't read enough for the whole picture yet but sounds like you feel stuck there and can't move away - is x still in the area hey ? 
My d and me have been tossing all this up fpor a few mths now and luckily , my towns and areas are small but there's about 5 of them . All different and disconnected to the other.
So we've decided finally , together , for her and for me and l absolutely love this idea , that there's one 15mins over where we rented for a few yrs on the coast. Still onlly 15mins away from my d for the rest of her childhood having to live like this but yet another world from x's new life . It's perfect , well a bit dear being on the coast but l reckon l'll be able tpo find an opportunity there . We were tossing up between 3 different towns .
So there ya go , only 15mins away yet another world apart from x.
lt takes time Lucy though and there's probably a few for you to pic from and a way for you to do it and choose , it will all just take time . But if that's what you want the solution will be out there. l thought l was completely bound too but there ya go , something came to the surface in the end - 8mths.
whether to or not even to will come to you , try not to worry , stay calm about it and the answers will come when they are ready , l know it's hard but they will . This bs is all a work in progress .

Vent away Lucy , have felt things your describing 100's of times through all this .We're here for you.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

HI there,

I'm really having a low night. I'm going to vent again. 

Today I was actually feeling pretty good, thinking about my willingness to compromise with X and really start to take charge of my own life. I felt positive, excited even. 

Then when my D was dropped off, I get more news. Not only is her dad going to get her a puppy (goody!) but the new place he's moving into? The one he said he's choosing because the communal house he has been in since he left didn't allow enough one-on-one time with D (because there are other kids there, she's always playing with them...you'll remember this was my complaint form the start,,, but anyway)? This new place is close to the new girlfriend's, ANd it's also a shared house with a kid. I'm so upset. 

Also upset that he told her about it - too her by to see it - first today, without ****ing telling me about it. Why does he think it's okay to introduce stuff to her without telling me?

When is this going to stop feeling like a nightmare? One thing after another...

So my mind gets going, thinking of this hippie town and the compromised values of people who think relationships are disposable, and of my X's new attitude which, while also so disrespectful of me, seems so against the values I have around family, togetherness, consistency. Is he doing this on purpose? 

I'm so afraid he's going to set such a ****ty example for my D. In and out of houses, relationships, doing the communal thing, oh, and a puppy to ice the cake with.

Trouble is I want a lot of the similar things - we talked for years about sharing land with families and were really community oriented. Except he's chosen this flaky community that seems so unstable to me. I don't want my D growing up around that. Worse, what if she likes it, choose to live with him for some reason over me?

I'm just boring, me and her at home alone, wishing for a conventional loving family. I hate feeling like I have to be competitive with my X for my daughter's affection.

Oh, one more thing...she tells me today at soccer, when they wont he game, their coach bought them freezies, and her dad said she could only eat half of it because "Mom wouldn't like you eating that stuff."

How does he know what I would allow, and how dare he make me look like th bad guy for not "letting" her finish her freezie?

Oooh, he is really pushing my buttons. And being so insensitive, it's like he's not even trying to. I can't let him get to me but this feels like the beginning of 12 years of HELL. 

HELL!

Can anyone offer me advice about a shift in how I'm thinking about this?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi Lucy. As usual, I have some experience with this, too, lol. Hopefully, you'll be able to get to a bit of a lessening of these constant 'jabs' that keep coming your way. Unfortunately, I think you might have to let go of some of your thinking. I had to, and so have quite a few other parents here on TAM. As long as the place he's moving to doesn't present any danger to your D, you don't really have anything to say about it at this point -- and that can be good for you, too. Just as he doesn't want you dictating where he lives, you wouldn't want him to dictate where you can live. We have to put up with one to get the other. Remember the legal system doesn't care about which spouse was more right or more wrong in a divorce. I didn't 'ask' Ex if it was OK that I was planning on buying the house I eventually bought. DS and I went out with the realtor, and when I was pretty sure the house was mine, I was able to walk him through it one time when he picked DS up. It was mainly just to show him that DS wasn't going to be in a hovel, lol.  He wouldn't have changed my mind. And I wouldn't have wanted him to have that right, either.

And boy, have I felt the same feelings about being the boring Mom, competing with good-time fun Dad and his young fun gf. But, strange thing is -- I"ve insisted on DS helping me out more around the house starting immediately when I moved out. I'd wanted him to take a little more (age-appropriate) responsibility when we were all still together, and Ex didn't back me up on that. Ex also didn't help me out himself. But in spite of Dad being more fun, going to restaurants more, going out of town on day trips, etc., he is having long-term behavior problems with DS that I've never had. DS knows I'm there for him, even when I'm tough. I don't throw him over for a bf, or for other things. Your D will know the same about you. She knows that she doesn't have to compete with anyone for love and attention from you, like she does with her dad. That will mean more and more as time goes on. 

At times when you hear things about him saying things like he did about the freezie, take a deep breath, and keep yourself above it all. That will be a great example to your D. Just say something like, well, your Dad is just trying to make sure he's not letting you eat something that would spoil your dinner with me (or something like that). Then, if you need to, you can maybe just contact him with a list of things that you don't mind her having when she's spending a little time with him on one of 'your' days, perhaps. Ex and I do that, too. During Ex's weeks with DS, I see him after school for a short time. He might ask for soda or something like that. I tell him No, because I don't know what his dad has planned for the rest of the night. I give him a piece of fruit, or yogurt or something like that. Ex does the same. As she gets older, D will also get to the point of knowing what's OK with you or not, and she might put less stock in what her dad says.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I do't know, AP, it seems all a little beyond my mindpower at this time. I don't want her being raised by whatever woman he happens to live with/sleep with/"hang out" with...


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh, of course you don't. None of us do. I was upstairs in what used to be my home yesterday, for the first time in months and months. DS wanted me to play a video game in his room, and Ex and posGF weren't home (I was picking him up there, as previously planned). It is still very hard to be there, seeing the door to what had been our bedroom wide open with her things there instead of mine. They're still using the bed we bought ourselves as our first anniversary present. But it does me no good to crumble. I can't get back what I had..._and I don't want to_. Unfortunately, I did have my DS with _him_, so I must deal with him. He still loves our son, and our son loves his dad, so I must deal with it the best I can. It's all any of us can do. There is a certain amount of hardening you have to do, no doubt. I can have no feelings left at all for my ex, but obviously how he conducts his life and it's effects on my son affect me a lot. But we are limited in what we can do. Unfortunately, 'divorce culture' holds the BS's to a higher standard than the WS's. If we get angry about our kids not being raised according to the morals and ethics we believe in, because the other parent threw those out the window, the rest of the world doesn't really give a crap. If we get angry about that, we will be called poor parents and will likely get in trouble for violating the parenting agreement. It truly sucks, and it's something people without kids don't really understand, I don't think. 

But we don't really make things better for our kids if we remain angry and in battle mode. They get put in the middle. Do the best you can to raise your daughter the way you always wanted to. Teach her what marriage and commitment mean to you. How you think they should be. You don't want her to grow up and have lousy relationships, so teach her what you have learned. I don't want my son to grow up and be like my ex, either. So, I have to do my best to teach him what a responsible adult acts like. We can do it without bashing the other parent, but eventually, the kids will see it on their own. And we have to be the stable people they come to, who have not been taken over with anger or resentment. If we do that, our exes win. And I'm not giving mine another thing. Don't let your's win, either, Lucy. We may have lost the battle regarding the gf in the house, but the war's not over.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I feel like I'm losing, AP....

Long hard days ahead. I'm feeling so low. I've got to focus on packing and moving but I'm struggling with energy. 

I'm so mad at him, not because I want him back but because I can't believe who he's become, what he's chosen instead of family, my rage actually has no words.

His life looks just perfect to him - it's everything he wanted. I should never have been with him - I'm a good person, with lots of creativity and love and life in me. And this feels like it's sucking me dry while he moves on and this whole ****ing community opens its arms to him. 

I'm going crazy over this. Holy ****. I thought I was maybe past the worst of it, but it's not stopping. 

And now I've just blown my top at my D, who keeps antagonizing the cat.


I don't know what to do. This is such a nightmare.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy 

Sorry I haven't chimed in in awhile, and that you stil feel such despair and struggle with your situation. I know that feeling, and still go there at times. Feel free to vent all you want, and getting it out is healthy. There are many here who understand the feelings you're going through. This is not a criticism, but for myself as much as I may dislike my situation and di not get the outcome I hoped for, I cannot let it crush me and my chances for finding my way forward to a happier place. I have to constantly remind myself that the mentaility of victimhood and self pity get me now where and only make me more miserable.

I realize it is difficult when things do not seem to be going your way, and life is not as you pictured it would be. It feels out of control and unmanagable. But if you can make a habit of daily carving out some space in your life for doing the things that DO make you feel good, and staying focused only on what is in your control. 

Again, this is not to dismiss or minimize your painful feelings -- I've certainly felt the same way in spades, and am just sharing what works to get me out of the dark clouds that haunt my head. It is hard to think positive when things seem bleak, I know. But attitude is everything, and we've all seen the spunk and determination you possess -- you do have it in you to rsie above this mess and put it behind you!

Take care of yourself, and keep us posted.

Best Regards, A12


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I agree with A12, Lucy. I totally get where you're coming from. It's gonna take willpower, and I know you don't feel like you have any strength right now, but just as the bad feelings build on themselves, so do the positive ones. 

You are an amazing woman. Focus on YOU, not on him. He did what he did. It sucks, you're right. But you're beating yourself up now. Who gives a rip about people opening up their arms to him. I live in a University town, and a lot of people just went along with Ex and how our break-up went down. That shows me that those are not people I want anything to do with. He can have them. They are shallow, and they will feed on each other like piranhas. You're right - there's no respect for relationships or loyalty, so he'll get his somewhere down the road. Not. Your. Problem. Anymore.

Keep working on getting you and D into a place where you can be happy. You do have energy, but it's being funneled into your anger and pain right now. In order for this to turn around for you, you need to be able to learn some new coping skills that allow you to literally put a wall up in your mind when you start that rage towards him. It's hurting you, emotionally, and I'd bet physically, too. 

Mindfulness practice can be really helpful -- it keeps you in the present moment, and doing the one thing you need to do during that one moment. When other thoughts start barging in, you learn to refocus on just the present. Not reliving the past or worrying about the future. It's helped me a lot. I used to be a horrible 'ruminator,' but it's a rare, rare thing for me now. 

Try some of these things that A12 and I have suggested to get yourself out of your thoughts about him and your anger about your life. Your anger is only going to make a bad situation worse, and can prevent it from getting better. 

Get your feelings out here, Lucy, but then let them go.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks, A12 and AP. 

I just got back from a 4 year old's birthday party and it helped lighten my mood. Before that I was a crying, sobbing mess on the phone to a friend. 


OK, I can try today to get a handle on this. 

Do you think I should address the new house with female roommate + kid to my X? I'm REALLYYY upset and opposed to it; he said he was going to find his OWN place. ****er.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Thanks, A12 and AP.
> 
> I just got back from a 4 year old's birthday party and it helped lighten my mood. Before that I was a crying, sobbing mess on the phone to a friend.
> 
> ...


Hi Lucy - 

Glad to hear the kids' birthday party brightened your mood! Yes, you can totally get a handle on this!

I'm not sure what you mean about "address the new house with female roommate + kid to your X"? Do you mean telling him you are not OK with him renegging on his word to find his own place vs. with female roomate? I don't have children, so will let others advise you on that, but most TAMers coping with co-parenting post-split say that unless you believe X's living arrangements pose a real endangerment to your child, there is little you can do about it -- except check in gently with your child when she is with you, ask her how she is feeling, and are things OK for her at her Daddy's place? 

Hey, I forgot to share my "happy songs" playlist, which never fails to lift my mood -- great for a nice walk or listening in the car. I'm sure others could add to this, but here are some faves (a mix of old and new) that can't help but cheer me up:

"Send Me on My Way," by Rusted Root
"Shot Away" - by Pawn Shop
"Good Bye to You" - by Patty Smythe
"Somethng Good Can Work" - by Two Door Cinema
"I Love It" - by Icona Pop
"Shake it Out" - by Florence and the Machine
"Brighter then the Sun" - by Colbie Caillat
"On Top of the World" - by Imagine Dragons
"Carry On" - by fun.
"Defying Gravity" - by Kelly Ellis (from the musical, "Wicked")
"Alive and Kicking" - by Simple Minds
"Any Way You Want It" - by Journey
"Closer to Free" by the Bodeans
"End of the Line" - by the Travelling Wilburys
"I Don't Feel Like Dancin'" - by Scissor Sisters

I also crank it loud while in the shower and getting ready for work - LOL!

Keep trucking and take care!

Cheers, - A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Yes, I have something to say to him about the place. Hes been like this all along - one plan, then changes it. I know it's not worth a lot of energy, but I do feel the need to ask why he can't hold to what we discussed as best for her - and we did discuss it. It's best if he has a plac of his own. Especially if he's going to spend most of his time at the girlfriend's, anyway. 

D doesn't need more women to contemplate in her dad's life right now, and no more kids around in the evenings to take her away from one-on-one time with her dad.

It's like he's afraid to spend time one=on-one with her. 


God, the rage just swells everything I even write or think about it.

RAGE.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Breathe, Lucy. Talking to him when you're feeling like this will just spur him on to do the opposite of what you are asking. Trust me. Not saying that you'll get what you want if your sweetness and light, but those types of personalities thrive on being defiant of what they think people are telling them they 'should' do. Right now, you're the person he wants to defy the most, so play it as cool as you can.

But in the long run, you can't force him to do anything, unless you had it in writing as a legal agreement.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It is, unfortunately, his choice. Unless it's an endangerment issue there's nothing that can be done about his choice. That's the difficult part of co-parenting.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Difficuly doesn't even come close. I do want a signed agreement about this. If he does things just to "defy" me, when they're not best for our D, then that's going to be his bed to lie in. 

For all I know it could be an endangerment thing...they have a party, people come over while she's sleeping, anything could happen. Even this woman he's living with could have men in the house. It's so disgusting.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Fine, he can be defiant. I'm still going to set my boundaries and I do want that kind of thing outlined in an agreement. It's not in our D's best interest and he knows it but is acting like an idiot.

Re: endangerment - these communal houses where there's a party, or even just this other woman's man friends coming through, and my D is sleeping there? Anything could happen.

It's disgusting and traumatizing to contemplate. I know y'all will tell me not to contemplate it, and I'm trying not to.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Look into your legal rights regarding this, Lucy. Check police records to see if they've ever been called to this party house. I'd be contemplating, too, don't you doubt it.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Just a little check in to say - I'm in the middle of a move, and probably won't be checking here as much.

I'm listening to good music, though some of it is melodramatic, and feeling SO heavy with sadness and memories and regrets and hopes for the future and so much fear.

I want to be in a loving partnership so badly. Why does my ex get a relationship right away? I'm lonely and feel so daunted thinking of how to trust someone again (or rather, I'll trust too fast and then get hurt?). Or even how to get to that point?

I asked a man form my kickboxing class out this week. It was super awkward. We'd already talked and it felt flirty, but his response to me asking him out was really non-committal. Then again, I wasn't very direct. I don't know where to go from here - just wait? Is the ball in his court now? Am I just projecting onto the first guy I've felt chemistry with since this whole mess started? It's exciting, but I kind of just want to go out for drinks and talk and get cozy...hello, moving too fast?

I don't know how to do this. It's been over 10 years since I've dated. Tips?


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> @gulfwarvet...thank you. I have been using email exclusively, except texts in some cases like "I'll be there in 5 minutes", for coordinating about childcare. But recently I've let the emails get emotional. Like when he says he doesn't have money for gas in the car that we're still sharing, but he does have money to go out multiple times in a week.
> 
> @angelpixie, it warms me to know you've been following along. thank you for your thoughtful response.
> 
> ...


Lucy M., I just want to give you a huge cyber hug. I was pretty much dumped by my partner last week and I know so well the pain, torment, second-guessing, beating yourself up for things you did and did not do.......it just goes on, and on, and on. I wish I could hate my ex, as everyone in my life wants me to, but I just don't. I also wish I could stop wanting the relationship to continue, and as I get more distance and perspective I am starting to realize that my ex is not as great as I once thought she was....that is progress. There's something so horrible about being left behind by someone you entrusted with your heart and soul. A part of you really does die with this type of experience, but the good news is that in time we are reborn, hopefully as healthier and stronger people. I know for me I have very low self-esteem and this contributed greatly to my willingness to continue participating in my dysfunctional relationship. Stay strong. You will survive, and so will I.


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Just a little check in to say - I'm in the middle of a move, and probably won't be checking here as much.
> 
> I'm listening to good music, though some of it is melodramatic, and feeling SO heavy with sadness and memories and regrets and hopes for the future and so much fear.
> 
> ...


I am the last person to talk, my relationship has been over less than a week, and I already have a match profile up and I am joining as many single meetup groups in my area as I can find. At the same time......the last thing I, and if I can be so bold as to say, anybody in our situations (ie, newly split from long term relationships with people we love deeply and want to be with) should do is start shopping for the replacement. We need to sit with our pain and heal our hearts and ourselves. I am doing these things to alleviate boredom, give myself some hope for the future and remind myself that my ex is not the only sardine in the can. 



I also have been off the market for 10 years. One thing I can say is that things have changed a lot! There were no meetup groups back then, although my ex and I did meet on a popular GLBT dating site that doesn't exist anymore.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks Nix.

How does the one leaving, dumping his family as it were, get to ease into a relationship that apparently, he had waiting before he even left? When us, the ones who wanted the relationship to improve, be strong, survive - we get to be alone and are reminded to "take our time" getting back into dating?

I saw the OW tonight for the first time since she told me (in a note) that she'd changed her mind and was going to pursue a "path" with my ex. This is the person who was waiting in the wings, I guess. She used to be a friend. 

It was all I could do to not give her the finger. Luckily it was across a crowd. Uck. It's so gross.


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Thanks Nix.
> 
> How does the one leaving, dumping his family as it were, get to ease into a relationship that apparently, he had waiting before he even left? When us, the ones who wanted the relationship to improve, be strong, survive - we get to be alone and are reminded to "take our time" getting back into dating?
> 
> ...


I know......it's so unfair and so wrong. At least my ex is moving across the country to do whatever it is she is going to do with her new and improved sexual orientation. She now thinks she's really straight (we were in a lesbian relationship).

The way I look at their relationships is this: our exes might look like they are getting everything they want but in reality they have nothing we want. We know that in the end they cannot make us happy because they are quitters and cannot participate in a true relationship of equals, emotionally connected equals. That is how I see my situation anyway, I have learned going through this with my ex that she has nothing to give me anymore, and it is time for her to go.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Yes, it's just infuriating when they also use the excuse "i wasn't emotionally satisfied" - as if I wasn't trying for nine years to connect emotionally. I have to trust that it's not about me and my ability to connect...but it's still so horrible for it to go awry. 

I don't want to be with a quitter, it's true. I really hope better is out there, and will try to just ignore the "ease" with which my ex has exited. It is so unfair, he shouldn't be getting what he wants. But if what he wants is superficial and "easy" (no conflict, all happiness all the time) then yes, it's true, he's not going to get that with me. 

I think love is complex and sometimes intimacy involves arguments, moods and going to the depths with someone. I don't want surface stuff. And I don't want him.

It's just all about how to heal from the immense hurt that this is. And trying to live as a single parent when you wanted nothing more than living as a family.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

It's been a while, Lucy. How are you doing?


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Ditto that - How are things going, Lucy? Hope you are well.

Best,- A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Hey y'all...thanks for checking in. Week two of my road trip with my daughter. It's been mostly really good...but I was super anxious at first in a way I never have been on a road trip before. Heading into the great unknown...what am I coming back to? That type of thing.

My daughter's really acting up, too - very defiant, very rude even with strangers or friends of mine she hasn't seen in a while. I understand, it's a big transition, but it's hard to see her so surly and so reactive. She had had fun playing with kids she knew when she was smaller, though. And I hope to lay a foundation to do more visiting here, more regularly. It's where she was born, after all.

Off to see my dad and his wife tomorrow, which will be more familiar to her.

In terms of the separation - finally decided to move an hour away. It was a compromise for me - I'd like to be further and there are more opportunities and support further, but I really wasn't willing to force it or go to court or miss my 60-day deadline. So on that day, I emailed the X saying what my plans were. He says he doesn't agree but that he can't stop me. Damn right. 

I also sent a draft sep. agreement where I state I want full custody, and double the support he's giving me right now. If I can't move to where I have better opportunities, I do think he owes me that.

So we will see. I signed a lease on a cute little house that's across the street from D's new school, and I'm excited. 

Still composing hate letter in my head to him, though. The anger just isn't letting up. I still feel like I need to say a bunch of stuff to him before I can let it go.

I did burn our old bed in a bonfire on the beach, though. It didn't feel as cathartic as I thought it would.

So I don't know. Overall I can't believe how much time has passed, and I still feel so tentative. And mad. And so hurt. But I'm crying less, and not really feeling stuck. Just stunned.

I want to get the poison out of me, but the thought of him still disgusts me so much.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Good to hear from you, Lucy! Glad you're having a get-away with your Daughter, and sounds like things are at least moving forward, with plans in place for your move to a cute new house near your D's school -- a fresh start for you!

The anger and resentment will subside over time, and you will come to peace the the "new normal." Hang in there and take care.

Best Wishes, - A12


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I hope things are getting better for you, Lucy. Sorry that your D has been having a rough go of it, and therefore, you have, too. It sounds like maybe things are kind of catching up with her, too. I hope you're both able to get a little bit of relaxation and fun behind you before moving and her starting school again.

I think it's possible that the more you are able to separate yourself and your life from him, you'll actually feel better. You'll be taking some control back over your life -- where you're working and living. True, it's not what you'd choose if all things were equal, but none of us were dealt a winning hand. We have to just bluff our way through it sometimes, until we draw some better cards. How's that for stretching a metaphor? 

Continue to focus on you and D, rather on him. The indifference will come to replace the anger. And you will start to feel more calm and more peaceful. It will happen. Trust, Lucy.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I wonder when I'll be able to change the thread title? 

Today, sitting on the gorgeous beach in our new town, I still realize I feel in shock. Like, wow, this is my new life? Those thoughts are the hardest, because I know I'm romanticizing what we had, or what I thought we could have had going forward together. But it's such a compelling fantasy.

What are the thoughts that help me? Ones like, I don't want someone who's not committed to me and to working through our issues. And, I don't want someone who would treat me the way he has since the separation. And, judging by who he's hanging out with now, and the horrible person he's in a relationship with, I don't want to be connected to him anyway. I don't. 


Tricky part is the kid, of course. And the fact that we live close enough for me to have to suffer through the issues with mutual friends, seeing him around, being reminded of things we were going to do together. We still haven't worked out how we're going to share her with my new living situation - he's definitely slow to get back to me. He is, of course, not in support of my request for sole custody. I see a mediator tomorrow who is willing to see us separately. I still have so much anger I think I'd want to throttle him if I saw him.

I've let a few mean emails out - I'm tired of covering up how I feel to be "strategic" and so have told him he makes me sick, that he's a selfish bastard, and that his choices are not being respectful of our D's needs. His new place that was intended (he said) to give them time together? It's with another single mom and her daughter (not the SM and daughter he's "dating," however), and my D doesn't even have a door on her room. 

The challenge this week is having his parents in town - I wanted to see them, and had them up today to see our new place. But as friendly as we can all be, because I think we genuinely like each other, there is still that huge world of unspoken thoughts. And some tension because of what I suspect they think of me (but aren't saying) - that in loving to travel, I am "running away," that I have a mental illness - and because I would love nothing more than to tell then what a cheating, lying ******* their son is. How can they not see that? Have they met the ****ty lady he's with? 

It was kind of driving me crazy not to say any of this. His mom let a couple comments slip about him - like what new tea he loves drinking, the loser who never liked tea before but has apparently reinvented himself - and I ignored it. I don't think she did it maliciously. But then we did have time to talk w/o my D present, and I told her it's hard for me to ignore the obvious and just fake that we're hanging out for fun, and that I had to ask her to be honest and that I wanted to know a couple things, to be able to move forward. I asked if she thought I had a mental illness (something my X was probably talking to them about, as he suspected this when I got too emotional for him). She said no. But she did say a bunch of BS in my opinion about wanting what's best for all of us and hoping we can do what's best for our D. Again, not maliciously, but her son is the one who left. She told me she thought we were both great parents, and I bit my tongue big time. I said I was really hurt and that I didn't like how things had ended up. But man, did I want to launch into exactly how hurtful he has been. I want her to know it wasn't me who stopped trying. But how does a mom come to terms with that? Is she actually thinking this is for the best, if her son is "happy"?

Funny, how in-laws are still tricky even when the marriage breaks up. Maybe even more so. They asked if they could spend time with us at Christmas - and they live 12 hours away. It might be too awkward for anyone's good, especially if I feel I still have anger towards their son. I mean, I'm grateful they still want to be in touch, and I do like them, no matter our ideological differences. In some ways it's a chance for them to know me better, without the X's nasty, lying involvement. MIL did say one interesting thing - about the difference btw. my upbringing and my X's, along financial lines. Seems she thinks I led a very privileged life and that's why I want to do things, travel specifically. I didn't grow up with lots of money. I hate being misunderstood like that. I told her I love to travel, it's not running away, and it's the job of a marriage to talk about the differences and find a middle ground. X was not good at that. She called him a workaholic and I agreed. 


But when they left, I just felt so sad. Like it reminded me of the feeling of extended family, and how I can be mad at my X for what he's done but I still was in it for the bigger picture, the long term, and actually how I missed him being there. Like it was almost still, not too late, because of their presence. It still hurts so much and at times today I lost the sense of "what's better" being out there. I know it is but I just can't imagine starting over with anyone else. Not because what I had with the X was so great, but because it was familiar and I spent almost 10 years imagining our future together. 

That's where the shock comes in, I guess. Hard to just switch gears like that.

(Unless you're like an acquaintance of mine - she used to be a better friend until she told me she didn't understand why I was so angry at my ex, and was generally insensitive, and I told her I didn't need that kind of friendship...this was six months ago or so...our D's are friends and so we still are connected..but it's strained. Just found out her and her partner of 5 years split...and she seems "over" it, a week later! I also found out she's been inviting my X out and over to her house. WTF. Way too much drama. She wasn't kidding when she says she doesn't take sides. But seriously. I guess I can't expect the whole "mutual friend" thing to be easy after a break up. I'm finding it SUPER hard to tolerate how anyone could be friends with someone who leaves their family and jumps right into another relationship. It makes me sick. But I guess I'm biased, and there are certainly ample people in this community to support a freer kind of love, no commitment, "guess it didn't work out" type of thing. 

Trouble is he has lots of that support, seems to be in a busy party crowd and oblivious to my pain, and I seem (or maybe just feel) like a lonely, hurt, slightly prudish single mom who believed things as boring as commitment and a fairly conventional family unit. 

Sigh. Big vent from me tonight. Please slap me around or encourage me in any way you see fit.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

need some help tonight if anyone is out there...

i'm 9 months out from the separation but my anger is still so strong. maybe getting stronger? now i find i can't even reply to an email of his without wanting to swear a mean streak all through my reply.

he's writing with detached tone, of course, about our daughter. 

i feel so strongly now that i want to share her even less. 

i HATE what's he's done to our lives. he's with someone i used to be friends with, living with another woman and her daughter (not the one he's with), generally ****ing around buying my daughter nice stuff when she sees him. i want her all to myself. i HATE him and don't want his slimy hands on our D. 

this is a relatively new feeling for me - the disgust has been there but now i feel i'm going to say something i regret - like "I dont' care if you ever see our D again" which will get me in trouble should things ever go to court.

Note: we don't have a signed agreement yet, I sent my version to him and he's taking his sweet time getting back to me.

Also tells me "I'll be out of town from the 24th to the 30th or so" - as if I need to know? Just to rub it in my face that he's got a life without me? I was always the trip planner and he never wanted to go.

Of course I'm dying with the desire to know where he's going. 

****, I hate this emotional, mental nightmare. 

Anyone have some thoughts on how to get myself out?

I feel like a cliche - that possessive, spiteful ex. I don't want to be her but I can't allow myself to be kind or even neutral with him.


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

Mine just went out of town. Little did she know one of her friends told me where she was going and with whom...


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

The attachment to him is still too strong to allow you to move on with your own life, Lucy. That's why you're still so angry. And that's why you're feeling like you want to keep D away from him. It's one of the few ways you have left to show your anger to him in a way that would matter to him. 

It's gotten to the point where you're hurting yourself more now, Lucy. You can't undo what's happened. And certainly by now, you know you're better off without this man. 

What's going on with him shouldn't be your main focus anymore. It is difficult, but in order to feel better, you simply must work on detaching from him. Is he taking your daughter with when he's going out of town? If not, he may be telling you that he will not be available to see her then -- that's something you'd need to know. If she will be with him, then he's telling you that you won't be able to see her, and may have limited contact while she's gone -- again, something you'd need to know. So, it's not necessarily to slap you in the face. File that info away in the way it's most useful to you, and then *let it go*. 

If you're not seeing a counselor or therapist, Lucy, I think it's time you seriously consider it. Look for someone who deals with cognitive behavioral or, even better, dialectical behavioral therapy. It will help you learn new and better ways of dealing with things that cause you some kind of distress. The way you're dealing with it now is not effective for you. It will take 'un-learning' what you're doing now, and re-learning better, more effective coping skills. If you really have the desire and will to change the way you're feeling, then you're going to have to take steps to change things up in your outlook. Time and waiting are not working for you. You have to make an outright effort to change this, Lucy.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

angelpixie said:


> The attachment to him is still too strong to allow you to move on with your own life, Lucy. That's why you're still so angry. And that's why you're feeling like you want to keep D away from him. It's one of the few ways you have left to show your anger to him in a way that would matter to him.
> 
> It's gotten to the point where you're hurting yourself more now, Lucy. You can't undo what's happened. And certainly by now, you know you're better off without this man.
> 
> ...


Thanks AP. You are totally right. I am still so hooked in to the whole thing, the drama, the hurt. I need to detach and I do realize that I need help with the mental/emotional process. Time is not helping a whole lot. Distance, some, but not enough. I think I'm a patient person but I do want to get moving on. 

I just have this killer-strong desire to UNDERSTAND which I think is what's keeping me, partly, so connected. That and the pure shock and outrage at how it actually went down.

I have a friend who told me about biofeedback treatment - is this similar to dialectical behavioural therapy? Never heard of the last one before. I have been seeing a counsellor but over the summer it's been spotty, due in part to my schedule and to my lack of money.

A hard part of letting go for me is the way so many things are connected without my choice - mutual friends who have stayed close enough to him that I no longer trust what I can say around them... the things we wanted to do together (I thought) that, at least, I've realized I still want. But then in still wanting them I'm ****ing reminded of him every time I think of my OWN dreams. 

It's obviously easier to focus on the dreams that are just mine. Maybe I should do that for a while, you think?

So thanks for the kick. Again.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

PS. I feel like I did develop one way of separating out emotion from my dealings with him, recently. Because my emails have become harsh again. 

I have a thin pad of paper near the computer and when I check my emails from him, and think about a response, I write down all the nasty stuff on a piece of paper, then write the remainder in the email, dealing with just a simpler answer to his question. Then I'm going to burn the papers and maybe scream and yell too.

But...about this sort of "final tally" letter I'm wanting to give him...the one where I express my anger and my sense of what went wrong in a closure kind of way...for myself I hope, more than anything...most of you will say I shouldn't send it? I just want to be able to close the book on that one, on the thoughts and regrets and complaints and responses to every stupid excuse he gave.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Lucy - I totally identify with your need to understand. I think even wrote about it in my threads, too, lol. It led me to do a lot of reading (about relationships, things about the two of us and our childhoods, the issues I knew we dealt with in our marriage like depression, OCD, and abuse), and to get into therapy - individual and group...all to try to figure out WHY and HOW. 

Some things I found answers for. Others, I have strong suspicions of, backed up by my therapist and a lot of my own legwork. In the end, though, it had to be enough. For example, one of the major things my ex displays many strong traits of is not something that is very easy to be discovered in therapy, and is not likely to ever improve. Also, our relationship progressed and ended very much like a relationship with this type of person would. That in itself was an answer of sorts. Ex has certain mental, emotional, and personality issues that I also experienced from the position as his spouse, and still do as co-parent of our child. 

Yes, I also had dreams that included him, and dreams I gave up for him. And sometimes, when I think too much about what my life would have been like if he'd never darkened my door, it's easy to regret the whole thing. But then I look at my DS, and I know I'd go through it all again just to have him. There are some things we can control, and other things we just can't. Things we just can't predict. 

It is difficult to excise someone from our thought and plans when he or she has been part of them for so long. But it can be done. How do I know? I looked at my ex, and how quickly and thoroughly he was able to excise me. I finally realized that in order for me to succeed, I needed to take a page from his playbook. He did it so he could move on, and it seemed to work pretty well for him. It's harder to do that when it comes to DS and him spending time with ex and the Trampire (who is now officially his fiancee), so that's what I'm working on navigating now. Finding that balance between a good relationship with DS and my own self-respect. Notice that I didn't mention Ex. That's because my relationship with him is over except for the barest threads with DS. 

I do give a lot of credit to the therapy I mentioned, dialectical behavior therapy. It is ver basically a combination of cognitive behavior therapy and Eastern mindfulness practice. It was originally developed for people with borderline personlity disorder, but parts of it were found to be helpful for people dealing with many different things. I liked it because it was structured, almost like a class. There were assignments, homework, and we were held accountable. It worked because we had to be honest in looking at how we dealt with things like distress, interpersonal conflict, asking for things we wanted, etc. And we learned how those ways were not working for us and why. We learned new steps and processes and tested them in real life. We did them over and over until they became more automatic and replaced the old ways. I should add that nobody in our group was borderline, and we were all there for different things.

I also wanted to do a 'Final Letter,' and this was one of the things I personally worked on in group. I tried writing it using the steps I learned, so that it expressed what I wanted him to know, but since we still had to maintain contact as co-parents,I had to leave some of the anger out of it. It was more important to me that he knew how I felt and what I experienced. When I gave it to him, he told me he would never read it, and I know he didn't. That just added a new layer of hurt: after all of our years together, he couldn't even give me that? Of course not -duh, if he cared how I felt, I wouldn't be giving him a Final Letter, right? 

Nobody can stop you from sending it. But if he ignores it, will you really have closure? Won't that really just become another log on the fire of your anger? Will it help or harm your relationship as co-parents? Your DS is ypung; you have a lot of years of working together ahead of you. You might as well look to diminish yourstress in that area as much as possible.

And yes, focus on those dreams that were yours. You were a person before him, Lucy, you will be a whole person after him, and potentially a wiser and happier one, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

AP, thanks.

I feel a little cooled down about things today - I really am working to train my mind to either "not go there", or, when it does (stubborn thing), I visualize parcelling those icky thoughts into a big old chest that I'm going to bury.

And when I can get past the pain of betrayal, the wondering how long he was faking things, the disconnect between what he's doing now and what we were as a family, even the belief, deep down, in a part of him that breaks my heart to think about because it's still positive (and I want to hate him completely, really I do)...

When I get past these things the main issues for me now are those concerning my daughter. My heart aches to think of her grief, her confusion, her loneliness and questions. She's fun to be with sometimes, but there's also the hard work of parenting that I feel so alone in, and so angry about being alone in. She has been really harsh with me - a rude, pre-teen kind of talk that I can't stand - and it brings out the worst in me. I know she's struggling with the changes, and I fear that she's starting to think I'm the mean, no-fun parent and that her dad is more fun. Mostly because he lives in a house with a kid and a dog so there are instant playmates, and he doesn't see her for the tough stuff, just for fishing and canoeing. I can't even express my rage about that.

I have this terrified sense that it's only going to get worse - that there will always be the comparison between my house and his, that she's always be able to yell "I want to go to Papa's house," when she's mad at me, and that, horror of horrors, maybe she'll want to live with him. I feel so sick to my stomach with that thought.


I can start to feel like, yes, I need to move on, see what else is out there, pursue my dreams and trust that I will find someone loving and supportive to share them with. But I can't get over the anger and fear that come with imagining the future as co-parents. I feel like he's the enemy, that he has nothing of value to teach our daughter, and that I will just have to endure the time she spends with him.

Then, that feels like a horrible sentence and I know I need to find a way to look at it differently.

But our relationship as co-parents is just about non-existent. It couldn't really get worse, except that we don't have open conflict. He just doesn't tell me anything and has made choices that are not good for her, and plays dumb when I express my disapproval. Even having an emotionless email conversation about something like lice, seems to be like pulling teeth. 

It's like he speaks another language now. And it's not "family."
And I can't forgive that.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

AP - how old is your son? And how long have you been separated now? I'm sorry, I forget


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

My DS will be 11 this fall. I moved away from Ex a little over two years ago -- July 2011. We had an in-house separation for about 8 months before that (the last month was me packing up and looking for a new place). We didn't get our legal divorce until this winter. 

I understand the feelings you have about her dad becoming the 'fun' parent. I'm sure many, if not all of us have worried the same thing at one time or another. By the time I left, I didn't have a very good relationship with DS. I was the caretaker of both him and his man-child father, and I was breaking under the strain. At that time, Ex was not much of a co-parent. Luckily, even though I was on my own after I moved out, I was also used to running a household myself, so the transition wasn't altogether negative. It was a lessening of the personal stress to not have to live with Ex and his bullsh!t anymore. As I began to realize that there were positives to our split, namely, that I was feeling better physically and mentally, I put that new energy into doing more things and spending more time with DS. It wasn't all fun and games, either. For example, I'd wanted him to start doing little age-appropriate chores around the house before I moved out. He was not cooperative, and Ex gave me no support. However, when I got my own place, DS started doing little things that I asked him to do -- and continued to *not* do them for Ex. During those early months, I worked very, very hard to try to find a balance between showing DS that I was not happy about the split, but not to burden him with hurt or anger that I was feeling. I pushed myself to do fun things with him, even when it was the last thing I wanted to do. Just small things like playing Clue or Legos, or watching a movie he wanted to see. I continued reading to him at bedtime like I used to, and we started going more places together. It not only helped to bring us closer, but it created a good balance between asking him to grow up and accept a little more reponsibility, and me trying to be a more loving, fun parent. It has been an 'upward spiral' -- so far. I don't know how it will work out as he heads closer to his teen years. I really hope we'll have a good foundation that will help carry us through. 

Try not to worry so much about comparisons between your place and his. The rental house I lived in for nearly two years was a dump for the most part, especially when compared to the marital home, which Ex bought out from me. It's more about what goes on inside the place. 

It's hard for anyone to raise a teenager, and yes, even harder when you're a single parent. Cut yourself some slack, and keep on with the compartmentalizing when you get those thoughts that bog you down. Try doing that when you're dealing with your DD, too, so that you don't inadvertently carry anger at her dad or about your situation over to your time with her. It takes patience even in good times, that's for sure.

As for the feelings of wondering just how much of your past with your ex was real or true? Yeah, I *totally, totally* get that, lol. I will never know for sure on that, either. I've had to just repeat this mantra: I think he did love me for a while, the best he knew how. After that? The problems he brought with him took over. And I brought problems of my own with me, too, I have to remember. But it really does no good to go over that, with the exception of looking for things that may have been red flags that you initially missed or ignored. This is really helpful to analyze and learn from, if you ever desire to be in a relationship again. I am trying to get to a point where I can look at Ex as playing a part in my life that he was supposed to play, and then his part ended.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Another night, another tantrum from the DD over something relatively small (me needing to pick lice out of her hair, joy!) that turned into a huge freak-out with her sobbing and my heart breaks listening to it. 

This is so hard.

Just got the sep. agreement draft from the X - in the mail, as if he couldn't email it back like I did - and it's awful. He's refusing to pay any child support, wants special expenses to be shared 50/50 even though he earns more than me, has DD hardly at all, and was the working parent while I stayed mostly at home for her five years. He wants 3 weekends out of 4 and half the summer. NO WAY. 

Man, I guess I have to be ready for a fight. This is so exhausting.

How are others doing out there tonight?


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

Mine didn't fight custody at all so I was pretty fortunate because the gloves would have come off at that point. really the only thing that changed in terms of how much I see my child is that two weekends a month I don't see her for a few days
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

AP - you are so solid  I don't think I'm ready to give my X the belief that "he loved me the best he could..." I'm still angry that when I asked for something, or tried to communicate, that he shut things down and wasn't willing to work on our differences (or accept them He did a half-ass job at marriage and he should know that.

But I'm feeling less mad today (believe it or not!), just shaky still through the changes. More able to take a deep breath before responding to an email, more willing to delete the harsh words and just stick to the basics. 

And my birthday's coming up, and I've sort of set that as a limit for myself, to get all the negative feelings out to him, and then just let the rest of them go. We will see...

And I do feel like DD and I have a strong foundation. Maybe too strong? Maybe I'm too attached? I have a hard time imagining letting her go. But then I need to remember myself and all that I want to see and do in the world. And just hope my X won't stop me from sharing that with her. I don't want to have to wait til she's 18 to travel...

And x's part isn't over, sadly, it will just go on and annoyingly on. How I wish it was really over. But he chose to enter and then chose to leave, and there's nothing I can do about that except deal with my anger and hurt and find someone who does want to stick around. And realize my own show will go on, regardless, and perhaps be even better without an annoyingly resistant, ass-dragging, non-communicative partner.


Oh, and he refused to pay spousal support, not child support. Little slip I made in my last post. 

My strongest feeling at the moment is that I did not choose to be a single parent, true, but I did choose to be a parent and so I am not willing to compromise my time with my daughter for any legal agreement, no matter what seems "fair". He walked out, into someone else's waiting arms, and she has a daughter too. He chose that, instead of our family. I want to be a full-time parent, don't want his slimy influence on DD, and feel, right now, like I'll fight tooth and nail for that.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

somethingnewmaybe said:


> Mine didn't fight custody at all so I was pretty fortunate because the gloves would have come off at that point. really the only thing that changed in terms of how much I see my child is that two weekends a month I don't see her for a few days
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, wow, there's no way. I refuse to be the weekday mom while he gets the fun weekend time, especially with the company he's keeping lately. I want fun weekend time too.

I just don't know how I can limit the time he sees her to something acceptable for me. I'm quite happy to have her all the time. Sometimes I wish I could have a situation like my single mom friends who don't have the dad in their kid's lives at all. I know it's hard, but I can find other people to give me a "break", who are better for her than her cheating, lying weak-willed dad. 

I don't know what to do except sit firm with what I want.


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

I would take my daughter full time in a heartbeat if at some point she walks away from her daughter but having co parented my son for many years I do recognize the value of both parents. I agree with you though it sucks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy -

I hope you're feeling better, and sorry it sounds like you do have some serious negotiating to do to get the terms of the separation agreement more satisfactory for you. Maybe mediation, if you have not already tried that? It can be cheaper than back-and-forth arguments between each of your attorneys.

I like your idea of making your birthday a "re-birth" day, symbolizing a new beginning!

Take care and hang in there.

Best Regards,- A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks, A12. Can I just say that your unicorn-rainbow picture makes me very happy?!

I know it will be a long road getting used to what sucks about this, and trying to see the positives.

We are going to try mediation again - I waver back and forth with wanting to sit across from him and just rage (helpful, I know), and wanting to keep as much distance between us as possible. Going with the distance path, for now - mediator will meet with us separately.

Today when he met me at a midway point btw our homes, he said "hi" to me and it just about drove me berserk. I actually scoffed like a teenager - mature, I know. But what does he think? I am NOT going to be friendly towards him - I can't even to civil right now. 

Hope you all have a good weekend. I am going to a show and a camp-out with a friend. Bringing the rum and my frilly skirt


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

An update:

I'm glad to say that in some ways, even just 10 days have helped me put distance btw. me and my x. the trip to NB definitely helped with that, and i can say that my thoughts these days are more on myself and my future, and that of my daughter, then on the past, what went wrong, or even how angry i am now. 

i feel less angry! hoorah!

then, tonight, an email from him that he is planning to move closer to the town i just moved to (in order to put a bit of healthy distance between us). it's only an hour away from where he is now. 

i feel in shock and upset. does he have no heart? he doesn't respect my need for space at all but why on earth does he think it's going to make anything better for him to be closer?

i'm not sure how to respond. i certainly can't tell him where to live but this one trumps all the other crappy decisions he's been making. why can't i just have a little peace?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Since this is not the positive thinking thread, I just want to write and vent. I am so cranky today. 

I feel so overwhelmed by the choices that lay ahead of me, and like I want to do so much and I don't know where to start. 

I've been on hold and then hung up on about six times by the student loan office -- I'm trying to apply to go back to school. Everything is driving me crazy! The stupid hold music, everyone's stupid FB updates that I'm browsing as I'm waiting, each box I unpack that has more things in it that I don't need.

I just want a different life! And I admit how ridiculous that is and I'm just mad at myself for feeling this way. So impatient. I'm hopeful but also so peeved at other's good fortune, and then I feel like an *******. My friends with their happy marriages and professional lives on track, all the crafty people out there, people who are happy with their lives. Travellers. I'm so envious, I want it all, and I don't know where to start.

I feel like a sorry loser today. End rant.


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

Build a chart of long term and short term goals. You're not seeing it but I bet you're knocking out short term ones and not even noticing. You'll get there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Good idea, SNM. Something a friend of mine does when she feels stuck is to made a 'To Done' list. She writes down everything she does during the day, no matter how small and insignificant it seems. At the end of the day, she looks at it and can see that she really did accomplish quite a lot.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks, SNM and AP. I am feeling better. I get overwhelmed so easily and even though it's in a positive way (so much to do? i'm excited by it all!) i tend to get stuck in criticism of myself and others. As we do. But it does defeat the whole point.

So I am a pretty good list writer and goal setter, just need to accept that I will have good days and bad days and find my supports to lean on when it's hard, and keep my eyes on the goal.

Since I feel comfortable here, can I just ask if any of you struggle with the fear of death? Not in an imminent way, but just like, when life changes so dramatically for you, do you ever feel super anxious that there isn't time for all the things you now want to do? 

It's coming up big time for me. I am seeing an IC about it, and trying not to let it get to me on a daily basis. It feels like such a cliche.

But my mom died at 55 and the older I get (now 34) I realize how young that is and I still want to do so much. 

\I know it's about attitude, and looking forward to each day and relaxing about what can't get done. I'm working on it. I just thought I'd see what thoughts are out there about this.

Thanks, and as my mom would say, Make it a great day!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

A less existential question for you...

As some of you might remember I have dealt in the past few months with a friend or two who, though they are "mutual" friends, seem to be accepting of what my x has done and not understanding why i'm upset my this.

It's a huge block for me, especially as these were people I genuinely liked as friends, and whose kids are friends with mine. 

But I feel the desire to cut off completely from them. I can't understand how they are okay with him, as a person, after what he did. I just get all worked up about it, and try though I may to put myself in their shoes (for example, would I stop a friendship with someone if they had an affair?)

I conclude for the most part that I don't want those people in my life who are still friends with him. Partly, because I feel everytime I see them that it's awkward to NOT talk about, and that I have too strong a desire to ask them why the hell they think what he did is okay, or why they're still friends with him. 

But this feels like a bit of an ******* thing to do - because I was their friend. I don't want to shut people out. But I'm hurt still and I don't understand. 

Does anyone have thoughts on this. How can these "mutual" friendships continue? Should I just trust my gut that says, it's too hard to be friends when you know they're hanging out with the x and his new woman. 

But seriously, I just can't imagine why anyone who's worth my time as a friend would continue to be friends with someone who leaves his wife and child for a single woman with child. They don't know all the dirty details but isn't that on its own, enough of a deplorable thing?

I really don't understand it.


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

I deleted all of her friends simply because I wanted no connection to her. She's spun this divorce in her favor anyway. I kept her family though. I think some of them might see how wrong her decision was, and they will absolutely in time, but I knew I wouldn't see her family out of state posting pictures of her out partying..... no I just find out about that through the grapevine.

Anyway, do what's best for you. Time reveals the truth.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

If they're not on your side, they're not your friend. Simple as that.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I struggle with the truth of that - but thanks, AP, for making it so clearcut. 

I have lots of friends who were his first but I've become super good friends with them - even better than him - and I have a feeling they are being "moderate" and sympathizing with me to a point, but not willing to say anything negative about him. 

It irks me. I just feel so much wavering on this point. DO I ask them straight up if what they think happened is okay ? Get into what he told them, what I told them, what is "true", etc? Or just keep skirting the issue, see where the friendship goes without that kind of harsh decision making point?

Of course I feel a great desire to draw a line and ask everyone I know - which side are you on. And the people who can say, well, each of you has a point, no one is right or wrong, there are two sides, etc.... are infuriating. But are they right? 

I guess it comes down to what I need in friendship right now, and it's sympathy, support, compassion for ME. Not for him and "his side". Someone who cheats is just wrong, that's all there is to it. No matter "why".


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> I struggle with the truth of that - but thanks, AP, for making it so clearcut.
> 
> I have lots of friends who were his first but I've become super good friends with them - even better than him - and I have a feeling they are being "moderate" and sympathizing with me to a point, but not willing to say anything negative about him.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like you are in the midst of a bunch of friends who are wolves in sheep's clothing. No one that truly believes in the most basic tenets of marriage would ever make those comments.

I think you need some new friends because, to me, it sounds like you're trying to get confirmation from a pack of hounds that are engaged in the same nasty behavior your WH is.

I've seen this WAY too often in my personal life. This isn't just my thought based on what I've read here. I've dealt with this mindset head on. I've cut a LOT of people out of my life just because of what you're describing right now. And I don't miss a damned one of them. 

A truly pro-marriage friend would never make those types of comments.

JMO


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Yeah, I know. Thanks 3putt. I think I try to understand other people's perspective too much - some of these friends are people who I really value, and don't actually talk to that much at this point in my life...but I just wonder if I ask them about what they think, or assume, or leave things unsaid? It's so hard. They are like lingering little unsolved relationships and I don't need that right now, I want things to start to feel smoother, not more drama. And I do have really good friends who support me, too, thankfully.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanksgiving SUnday here in Canada - my D just cam eback from time with her dad and i hear she spent it at the new woman's house - just for dinner, still, but it's enough to get my blood pressure right up, I hate her so much, and it brings up the rage I still feel about the betrayal (she was a friend of mine, they got together, or perhaps just planned to be together, while he was still living with me).

It doesn't feel like raw rage, just an awful slow simmering poison in me. I still need to get it out so I'm opening up the computer file witha long letter to him. Not sure if I'll send it - was kind of thinking of doing it on our anniversary, as a last message kind of thing. I know many of you have advised me against it.

so you would probably advise me against writing the the x-in-laws, too. but what they said the last time i saw them this summer was like "the past is the past" and "we hope you can support each other as parents through your D's teenage years". WTF? It makes me so mad to think of, I still want to respond to them about it. Their son is the teenager - ****ing off from his marriage, hooking up with an old friend of ours, doing plenty of drugs... so there is no way I'm going to look to him for support when my D is that age (she's 7 now).

BUt I'm just raging here and trying to calm down a little. I want to text my x and say "I am so thankful you are no longer in my day to day life. You are a scumbag and I feel sorry for you. I hope you and the ***** are happy in your immoral, flaky life together. You deserve each other and you make me sick".

Or something along those lines. BUt I also want all those horrible thoughts to be OUT of my brain so I can get back to being a solid, grounded, on-with-my-life person. There is so much that is shifting and getting better...we're now at 11 months since he told me it's over... but I still get hung up on the rage and it seems even to take away a bit from the simple (but complicated) grieving of the loss of my family. 

Hes such a **** for walking out, giving up, getting with someone else and thinking it can just be done that simply. It's outrageous to me still! And moreso that my D has to spend any time with that *****. Ugh. I don't know whatI can do to communicate that I'm not okay with what they're doing, to a 7-year old, so she doesn't grow up thinking it's okay to just **** off like he did and take up with someone else right away.

Oh, help me, I'm so close to sending a nasty ass text. And on Thanksgiving too.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Just a little more venting from me here. 

I've been having a busy good few weeks...no major disruptions or intrusions from the x, and only a little bit of anger here and there.

The news, though, is that I'll fallen for someone. And it's a little premature - ok, way premature - in that I don't know how he feels about me. And I'm terrified to find out. Or rather, to find out that he doesn't feel similarly, and then I'll feel like a fool for sticking my neck out.

I know, oldest story in the book. But I'm still so fragile and at the same time so bloody ready to move on. And I like this guy a lot. And I want to get to know him more and not be alone.

Am I projecting my desire for a new relationship too soon? I'm impatient and then I also feel angry when I think of how hard it is to do this dance. I guess I"m still angry that I'm an interesting, capable, attractive woman who was given up on in her prime. And I'm angry right away at the thought that someone else might not reciprocate.

Just me trying to protect myself...but then, how do you get anywhere?

This is crazymaking.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

I heard that it is best to give yourself 1 year of recovery for every 5 years you were married to heal, before getting in a new a relationship.
I am a believer in it, I'm in a much better place than I was a year or two after divorce.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

yeah well my x didn't wait at all -- got another relationship on the go before leaving me and now he's happy as a clam.

it has been almost a year. we were together for 9. not even divorced yet. i can't imagine waiting another year to be "ready". 

i was ready for a relationship when i was in one, so when i'm the one who got dumped, why does that somehow mean i'm supposed to go without connection, attraction, intimacy?

he's the one who should be suffering all alone -- yet here i am trying to be confident and assertive and ask someone out, and i just get more rejection.

i know i wound immature, and i feel immature, but it just isn't fair. like, in the most profoundly unfair way.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

On the 1 for 5 guideline that a psychologist wrote about, to each their own, all I know is for me it happens to be true.
I like the fact that I'm happy with my life and don't need someone to complete me. Would it be nice if I had a significant other? At this point sure, but I certainly need the right lady-haven't met her yet....taking it slow.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Lucy, the thinking behind the advice about waiting is to heal. And grow. Learn about ourselves. So we don't repeat the same mistakes which is very easy to do if we jump into new relationships too soon.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Lucy - 

How nice that you have met someone whose company you enjoy! I'd keep it at that and just take things slowly. Be responsive and receptive, but let him do the chasing -- he will let you know if he in romantically interested. You don't want to have to work hard to win the affections of anyone. Be your charming self and let them come towards you. If they don't, do not take it personally, just chalk it up as practice for when the one comes along who is meant to be your next right love  It is OK to have anger, but try to manage it -- and any expectations or judgments -- in a healthy way, as that energy can really push men away. 

Hugs, - A12


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I know...I need to chill out a little.

But I feel like I've taken all this time, am working on healing (but honestly, are we ever "done" healing?), and am ready to be with someone. 

And now I've met someone, and it's in a professional capacity (Ie. I'm his patient), so I've had advice that I do need to be the one to move things along because he won't. Like by ending the patient-therapist relationship first. 

And I'm impatient, and I don't want to wait to be chased. But I see the futility in what I'm setting up, too -- I don't want to come across as desperate, just interested, and then I know I get annoyed if someone doesn't reciprocate, because I think I've got it all figured out, that this is the person for me. 

It hard to want something so badly and have to wait...I'm more of a go-get-it kind of person, at least in love, and I'm willing to jump right in -- be obvious about how I feel and be willing to get hurt. 

So I guess that's the next step, because I haven't really been that obvious ,yet -- or at least, I haven't got a direct NO, not interested from this guy. Which is what I need, harsh as it will be. I don't want to misinterpret anything.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

Seems like their is a big conflict here, one that is contrary to ethical standards he is to uphold in his profession.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Yeah, well, what can you do when you live in a small town and you kind of start falling for the person who puts needles in you for therapy? 

Seriously, there's not enough to do here in the evenings...I just want to curl up with someone, someone brave enough to take on the love and work of relationship. 

I'm not perfect, I still have healing that's ongoing but I didn't make so many mistakes in my marriage...just hoping for too much I guess. 

Might make that one again though because I think I deserve a loving committed and fun relationship. My x didn't want that, so I'm better off without him.


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## gulfwarvet (Jan 7, 2013)

Ok....accupunture......I guess I was thinking more in terms of a doctor.
If your going to pursue this relationship I would say hope for the best, and prepare for the worst, so you don't feel so let down in case things don't work out.
Honestly though,your nerves do sound raw.


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## "joe" (Aug 19, 2013)

hi lucy m. i've just read through your thread and i'm so sorry for the misery you've been put through. i've been put through the same over the past four months. there are a few things you wrote above that i really sympathize with.



lucy mulholland said:


> I hate that there are so many people out there who believe following your heart means doing things like this, that hurt other people to the core.





lucy mulholland said:


> I have dealt in the past few months with a friend or two who, though they are "mutual" friends, seem to be accepting of what my x has done


there are many facets to what has happened. the fact that it was done at all is humiliating, but i can accept (with difficulty) that there are damaged people or people who are just swine. the fact that one is alone, which is very very hard (and i've wept buckets and am on a sleeping medication and had panic attacks myself), but would also happen in a proper, mature break-up. but the fact that there are people who _actually support_ what was done is disgraceful and makes me wonder if i belong on this planet. it's just sickening. i have to remember that there are people here at TAM and more irl who have a normally developed moral sense and who have stuck through the tough times in marriages and are shocked by what my stbx has done, and would be at what yours has done too.

people here understand!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

gulf -- you're right. my nerves are a little raw. i'm working on that with yoga and deep breathing and eating right and coming here to vent the worst of it. then i can put my best self forward.

i am going to pursue this, with my best shot at patience. i've never been good at "expect the worst" but i think at this stage of my life i can handle disappointment. 

and...i ran into the mr. in question yesterday and it was a nice, short conversation when he said "it's good to see you" -- i'm buoyed up enough by it to just sit and be pleased that at the very least, i've picked someone kind and open.

joe -- thanks for the support. even after almost a year it feels good to hear that not everyone supports what our x's did (or that the people who do, aren't worth our time). we will move on, and we are truly better off without that kind of influence or presence in our lives.

let the hard things be hard, for a while. and as cheesy as it sounds, focus on the positive. if nothing else i'm glad for this love interest because it does such an amazing job at banishing anger. not that it is totally solved -- anger certainly still comes up for me -- but when i'm really in that open, trusting place, i can believe in love and that i'm worthy or it (and someone out there is worthy of me). 

let's hold onto that good!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Guess what? He said yes! Big time connection over the weekend with this beautiful man who, it turns out, was interested in me all along but didn't want to overstep his professional boundaries. 

I am so thrilled and excited for what's to come next. I'll try to take it slow. THis guy is worth it.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Wow -- great news, Lucy! I haven't posted, but I've been reading along. Do take it slow, and let it continue to be an impetus to work on you. I'm finding that now that I'm in a new relationship, I'm really glad that I took the time to work on me first. I do see a real difference in the way I used to act in previous relationships and how I am in this one. I really wanted to wait until I could to into a new relationship from more of a position of strength than from just wanting to be with someone. 

Good luck -- I'll be waiting to hear updates!! :smthumbup:


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Yeah, the initial thrill has worn down just a tad and I'm trying not to feel anxious...like...whoa, I don't want to F this up. I waited until I knew enough about him to act, and now I feel like I want to just be together. But there's so much to digest, talk about, as well as just enjoying each other. He's said a couple times now, he just wants to take it slow too...what a nervewracking thing, this whole love business. 

I feel really strong but also so ready to just dissolve into this person who I want to trust so much. But it's not like I know him that well yet. Words kind of fail me, I'm so absorbed in being with him. He's chatty as anything though so I can be a good listener for a while...not broach any of the big topics yet. 

He knows my situation -- recent separation child, etc...I know nothing of his part relationship history. Oh, the things we could/will have to talk about at some point. 

It's mostly fun. I'm amazed how fast it can all happen. And it definitely helps take the edge off interactions with x.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Still going. Learning a lot about taking it slow from him and everyone who's responded to my thread over in the Ladies Lounge. Also having fun! Thanks!


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Update -- after three weeks of pretty amazing dates, intimate talks, a real comfortable feeling and making plans for a few weeks down the road...he got scared. He wants to take "a big step back"(ie. not sleep together) and think about things, even though i'm a "wonderful person." He said I was too intense.

So it's kind of like a break up before we were really even together. I definitely got into it real fast, fell in love by the 4th date...

I'm glad he put the brakes on, though. I can see how I was not assessing things clearly. I still like him a lot, but I know to be cautious if he decides he does want to pursue anything else with me. 

It triggered some of my old hurt, for sure, but I'm starting to feel myself handling it differently. Standing up for myself, setting boundaries, knowing that I am good and fun and fantastic on my own. If I realize that it honestly upsets me to not have a text-invitation responded to, and I say that to him, and he freaks out...maybe he's not the right person for me. If I get a bit boozy and see him out with another woman and ask him if he's on a date, and oops, it was his roommate...well, some guys would see that as a drunken blunder that we all make once in a while...others would get their back up and think I'm being jealous and possessive.

Anyway, enough about me and dating on this thread. 

What I also really wanted to say was, if nothing else, this new mini relationship has helped me feel stronger and feel more done with my x, to the point where, reflecting on the long letter I've had in the works for months, about all the things that went wrong in the relationship, how he hurt me, what a jerk he is?

I don't feel like sending it anymore.

This is a huge step forward for me!


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