# Porn or Cheating?



## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Its been 2 months since i discovered my H was visiting live sex sites while I was out of the house taking care of my mother. Porn is one thing, but this one site went far beyond, and I feel was cheating. This was a mutual masturbation site called [email protected] The tagline slogan for this site is, "The act of masturbating while chatting online!". I feel this is a violation of our marriage vows.

Last weekend (we have been in R since I gave him separation papers and he said he didn't want our marriage to end), he told me I was making a bigger deal out of it than I should. He said I am blowing it out of proportion. We got into an argument about it and during this fight I said, "where is the line for you? what do YOU consider to be crossing that line into cheating?!" 

I went over to my computer and started to type in the address and I said, "show me where the line is on this site!" He refused, walked out of the room and said, "I am not going to play your games". 

Sooooo.....is this kind of site porn or cheating?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

In the context that he's using it? And his behaviour? Cheating...He's rugsweeping and gaslighting you too.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

P.S. Did I mention he destroyed the hard drive after I confronted him about it? Just can't get over it.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

BTW - regarding crossing the line toward cheating...he should slam on the brakes miles before getting even close. Never mind this teetering along the edge bullsh!t...he's out of line!


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> P.S. Did I mention he destroyed the hard drive after I confronted him about it? Just can't get over it.


Gahhhhhh....you don't want to hear this, but he knows he is a guilty man...

What are you going to do about it?


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> In the context that he's using it? And his behaviour? Cheating...He's rugsweeping and gaslighting you too.


He claims he never set up his cam (which I don't believe) and that he never hooked up with anyone in real life (which I do believe, because he is home every night on time after work).


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Cheating. Most assuredly.


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## marriedat19 (Mar 28, 2012)

It is cheating because its live with a real person.. if it was a porn it would be on the t.v. and he cannot communicate with theses porn stars. Your not mad at the fact that he is masturbating your mad at the fact he is giving other women direct attention instead of just getting off. Sorry to be so graphic about it, but it is a form of cheating for sure I believe it is called Cyber Sex.. if he doesn't consider it a big deal, GREAT but you do, and you have a right to feel the way you feel about it. Tell him to stick to the DVD's just to save the argument...


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

marriedat19 said:


> It is cheating because its live with a real person.. if it was a porn it would be on the t.v. and he cannot communicate with theses porn stars. Your not mad at the fact that he is masturbating your mad at the fact he is giving other women direct attention instead of just getting off. Sorry to be so graphic about it, but it is a form of cheating for sure I believe it is called Cyber Sex.. if he doesn't consider it a big deal, GREAT but you do, and you have a right to feel the way you feel about it. Tell him to stick to the DVD's just to save the argument...


He claims he never interacted with anyone, just was looking. I said, "looking for what? Someone else to have sex with?!"


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

This site ranks right up there with adult friend finder, in my opinion. Because the cams give their location and if they are seeking men or women, etc.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Gahhhhhh....you don't want to hear this, but he knows he is a guilty man...
> 
> What are you going to do about it?


I don't know. I am lost. I thought we were in R until last weekend, when he backpedaled and said I was blowing it out of proportion. That made me want to leave again.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Even if 'all' he did was look at porn, that could be cheating if it's crossing the line for you.

Cheating does not have hard and fast definitions. What one couple deem cheating isn't the same as what other couples do. You have to define it for yourself. Sounds like he is trying to change whatever the definition of cheating is or was in your relationship.

Ask him what he would think if you did what he did. Would he be fine with that?


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Even if 'all' he did was look at porn, that could be cheating if it's crossing the line for you.
> 
> Cheating does not have hard and fast definitions. What one couple deem cheating isn't the same as what other couples do. You have to define it for yourself. Sounds like he is trying to change whatever the definition of cheating is or was in your relationship.
> 
> Ask him what he would think if you did what he did. Would he be fine with that?


I did this. I said, "So is it OK if I go to this site while you are at work?" He said no. He's sorry, he was wrong.

Then a week later he says I am blowing it out of proportion.


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## thrway214 (Feb 24, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Then a week later he says I am blowing it out of proportion.


Caught my WW in an EA/mild PA. She says I am blowing things out of proportion. It is a way of defending themselves and avoiding responsibility.


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## marriedat19 (Mar 28, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> He claims he never interacted with anyone, just was looking. I said, "looking for what? Someone else to have sex with?!"


He says he didn't go on to a live chat and actually communicate with the girls.... that is nice he says that and lets assume he is telling the truth, you have no reason to doubt him right. So instead just tell him, "I understand that you don't communicate with the girls and your right you didn't cheat it's the fact that the option is out there for you to be able to and everyone has temptations I would rather you watch a porn that isn't live. It wouldn't offend me. Okay?" 

See how that works !


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

marriedat19 said:


> He says he didn't go on to a live chat and actually communicate with the girls.... that is nice he says that and lets assume he is telling the truth, you have no reason to doubt him right. So instead just tell him, "I understand that you don't communicate with the girls and your right you didn't cheat it's the fact that the option is out there for you to be able to and everyone has temptations I would rather you watch a porn that isn't live. It wouldn't offend me. Okay?"
> 
> See how that works !


I would say this, except he destroyed the hard drive.......so I would look like a gullible fool. There's no reason to nuke the hard drive unless there was something serious on it.


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## marriedat19 (Mar 28, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> I would say this, except he destroyed the hard drive.......so I would look like a gullible fool. There's no reason to nuke the hard drive unless there was something serious on it.


Well then you obviously already solved the problem. And you are right never doubt your own feelings because no one can tell you your feeling something wrong.. that's how YOU feel.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

marriedat19 said:


> Well then you obviously already solved the problem. And you are right never doubt your own feelings because no one can tell you your feeling something wrong.. that's how YOU feel.


Thanks [email protected], I guess I already know, deep down, that its a betrayal. Maybe I am looking for validation that I am right, even though I don't really need it, do I?

Its scary because its a hookup site. Like adult friend finder, people wanting to meet and have sex. I don't care if its virtual or real world. Its my husband, and my heart is broken.


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## marriedat19 (Mar 28, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Thanks [email protected], I guess I already know, deep down, that its a betrayal. Maybe I am looking for validation that I am right, even though I don't really need it, do I?
> 
> Its scary because its a hookup site. Like adult friend finder, people wanting to meet and have sex. I don't care if its virtual or real world. Its my husband, and my heart is broken.


Well at least you took care of it before it was out of hand.. Besides I have a friend that works on a site similar and she is crazy! lol Most those girls are super lazy and have a drug problem... just saying~ so nothing to be jealous of, and try not to be mad with all of the technology now days it is hard to decide what is okay and what is not.(NOW HE KNOWS) If he was virtually fooling around on there it wasn't physically real and now its smashed into tiny pieces so your all good!


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Somewhere I read Thorburn say to give it a week, when you feel like giving up. Maybe I should try this --- because I feel like giving up today.


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## Bandit (Feb 8, 2012)

I suppose the line is this.. If what you are doing would cause a reasonable person to have their feelings hurt and you know it would hurt their feelings then its probably cheating.. ie. jacking live in chat with another human.. (a reasonable spouse would have their feelings hurt). If it's something that you "hide" or get "defensive" about then in your heart of hearts you know it is wrong and would classify as cheating.. My two cents.. for me whacking off to regular non interactive porn, (dvd, magazine or whatever) is not cheating.. no more than whacking off in the shower.. and when I have left a dvd or something in the player and been asked about it... I was blunt' "yeah I jerked off this morning BFD"...


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Bandit said:


> I suppose the line is this.. If what you are doing would cause a reasonable person to have their feelings hurt and you know it would hurt their feelings then its probably cheating.. ie. jacking live in chat with another human.. (a reasonable spouse would have their feelings hurt). If it's something that you "hide" or get "defensive" about then in your heart of hearts you know it is wrong and would classify as cheating.. My two cents.. for me whacking off to regular non interactive porn, (dvd, magazine or whatever) is not cheating.. no more than whacking off in the shower.. and when I have left a dvd or something in the player and been asked about it... I was blunt' "yeah I jerked off this morning BFD"...


Thanks for being honest bandit----you are right ---its the camming, lying and the trashed pc that really gets to me. Because now I can't go back and verify what he is saying. I have to take his word for it. And his word isn't worth much right now.

I love him so much, but I just don't think I can get over it----because of the dishonesty and disrespect.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Another weekend. Another check in of how R is going....Every time I try to have the cybersex addressed its all blame-shifting, minimizing and backpedaling for the last 2 weekends.....

Everything was ok till this started happening, I think my R has fallen apart.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

And I HATE it when he says I am throwing away 8 years of marriage over a "mistake".


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

H finally admitted it was cheating at our weekly "meeting". Asked for forgiveness. I didn't say anything. Just started crying that we both are on the same page- for the first time since dday.

Had dinner and went to bed -- in separate rooms. Feels strange....don't know how/when I will be able to sleep in our bed.


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## drob (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi-I'm in a similar situation. My husband plays some interactive war games on his ipod that I was fully aware of. He works long hours and I try to give him time to decompress by playing his game (he does this in front of the family so it didn't seem like anything sinister). He's been playing over a year. Many years ago he liked porn mags and videos but nothing over the top or even close to obsessively that particularly concerned me.

I never touch his ipod but went to take a cute pic of my daughter. When I reviewed the pictures I saw very very graphic pictures of his private parts in various states of masturbation. The next days I casually asked him about the pics and he said he was just fooling around and wanted to see what it looked like. It bothered me a little bit, but he's never ever given me a reason to doubt him.

The next day my son asked me if he could look something up on his Dad's ipod and I said yes. He got very upset and handed it over to me and I saw the pics and a very graphic sexual conversation with a woman from his squad in the games he plays. I immediately called my husband at work and was just so hurt. He felt so bad that I was upset and said he honestly thought it was no worse than dirtly mags and videos-didn't see that because it was interactive, had been going on ONLY for a couple of weeks (checked history on ipod) that it was outside the boundaries. He was very apologetic. Offered to go to my therapist with me on Tuesday. That was Friday.

By yesterday he changed his tune. He felt it was wrong not because it was necessarily wrong but because he sees how badly it hurt me and he doesn't want to hurt me. Deleted all pics and took off the apps that made side conversations possible but hesitated at deleting all the interactive games as he has built up points (he bought points to actually play this stupid game). He got irritated with me telling him I wouldn't feel better until it was all deleted-everything. No more interactive games. Back to solitare. Doesn't feel he needs to go to therapist with me. I'm furious, hurt, etc.

We have been through tough times in our 16 year old marriage before, but we have always got each other through it. I don't want a divorce, but I feel like in those two days of being discovered and then thinking about it, he made himself believe that since it was only once and he's been a trustworthy husband for so long, I should just accept his apology and let it go. If it were only that easy, I would gladly do it.

I miss good old playboy. Life could be a little bit easier. I try to protect my kids from the internet, didn't need to know I needed to protect myself. 

I hope things work out for you and you find peace. I'm praying for the same thing for myself.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

There are lots of definitions of cheating. My wife doesn't consider a make-out session in a dude's car years ago cheating since no clothes came off. However, she considers me getting a lap dance in a strip club cheating (much less intimate than kissing and no clothes came off). If you look at the Bible, Jesus says that if a man looks at a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. I believe that condemns every man that has ever drew a breath, save him.

I have cheated on my wife. I went through a time of looking at porn, then strip clubs, then oral from hookers, then slept with one hooker. Not everyone that looks at porn will follow the same progression, but I did. 

Since I confessed to my wife and have seen the devastation it has caused, I have a totally new outlook on where the line is. According to the verse that lusting after a woman is adultery, I now believe that even masturbation is cheating. I know that may sound extreme, but once you start down a slippery slope, it is sometimes hard to stop. 

Just my two cents worth.


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## Charmlady (Feb 29, 2012)

I am going through something very similar, so am very interested in the answers, but I think it comes down to this -- what is your definition (and his) of cheating. Perhaps an open discussion, like, please tell me what YOU define as cheating, because perhaps you have different definitions.

In my situation - there were already trust issues (he broke trust), so I started looking at his computer and found he was going to porn sites (some live, some just videos) while I am at work (he is retired), so I try to ask him (in a non judgmental way) if he is doing it. He lied, says porn does nothing for him, however a computer doesnt lie - it tracks your every move...

I told him, look I consider this cheating if you are going to a live site, its not like looking at a magazine or watching a DVD, and if there is truly nothing wrong, why do you clear the history on your computer so I wont find it (only I am smarter than him and know how to find it)

In my book - the live version IS cheating. If he is looking at stills (like in magazine or DVD) its harmless, but so many of these sites are live and then they try to get them to connect with them either thru a cam or text or even in person -- one thing always leads to another....

I think biggest thing is - you must define to him what YOU think is cheating and he must define to YOU what he thinks is cheating, because you may find your answers are totally different and if they are - you have big problems.

My biggest issue, is he is NOT being straight with me about it. If he were, we could talk about it, deal with it, but when they are lying - they lie because even THEY think there is something wrong with it.

My two cents (or three)


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## drob (Apr 9, 2012)

Charmlady said:


> I am going through something very similar, so am very interested in the answers, but I think it comes down to this -- what is your definition (and his) of cheating. Perhaps an open discussion, like, please tell me what YOU define as cheating, because perhaps you have different definitions.
> 
> In my situation - there were already trust issues (he broke trust), so I started looking at his computer and found he was going to porn sites (some live, some just videos) while I am at work (he is retired), so I try to ask him (in a non judgmental way) if he is doing it. He lied, says porn does nothing for him, however a computer doesnt lie - it tracks your every move...
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drob (Apr 9, 2012)

It's been a few days and my husband told me last night he finally realized that he had crossed the line, no question about it. He didn't see it as any big difference from other mediums that I've never had a huge objection to in moderation. But he said when he realized how devastated I was, he understood why it was different. It's the interactive part that hurts me so much. He shard a part of himself that was just between us. It was a breach of my trust. I saw my therapist today and she surprised me by telling me that so many people are caught up in this "new" kind of porno. It just doesn't occur to them that it's much different than a video or magazine. You are interacting with real people. I'm still having a hard time even though I do believe he wanted to try something new and wasn't too careful about hiding it. He said he wasn't honest about why he took the pictures because he thought I would think he was a sick perv if he told me what he wanted it for. I would have told him I couldn't be okay with it. To me cheating is bringing a third party into our relationship, end of story, virtual or not. It's very clear now, no shades of grey so now it's up to him. He agreed that it was crossing the line and he will never jeapordize our marriage again. I said I wanted to see this as a wake up call for both of us. We reaffirmed our commitment and I pray I can move past it and he remembers never to risk our family for a quick thrill. IMO there's nothing intrisically wrong with masturbation and I have no desire to control him that way, but in my mind if it gets to the point that it takes away from our life together we have a bigger problem than sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StangMama (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm glad your husband came to that realization. I wish you both the best and best wishes to you with moving forward emotionally.


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## Charmlady (Feb 29, 2012)

drob, you are lucky then, in the regard at least he realized how much he hurt you and he says he wont do it again.
I can't even get H to admitt to it. (I know he does it) but when I ask him about it, he denies, denies, denies it.... I am like, just tell me, so maybe we can enjoy TOGETHER, because like you, I feel its bringing another person into our lives, although he won't admit that, so what to do?


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## drob (Apr 9, 2012)

Charmlady said:


> drob, you are lucky then, in the regard at least he realized how much he hurt you and he says he wont do it again.
> I can't even get H to admitt to it. (I know he does it) but when I ask him about it, he denies, denies, denies it.... I am like, just tell me, so maybe we can enjoy TOGETHER, because like you, I feel its bringing another person into our lives, although he won't admit that, so what to do?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drob (Apr 9, 2012)

Charmlady, I am so sorry ur H won't take ownership of his behavior. As much as I'm glad my H says he and I are on the same page, I am not naive enough to think this will all be smooth sailing. He only confessed to it when he knew I knew everything and there was no way to deny it yet I still feel a twinge of suspicion. He originally was very contrite, but over the next couple of days he became defensive and tried to say it wouldn't work if I tried to control what he did on his iPod. He felt his word that he would tell the players in the game he plays that he's not into the side stuff but just wants to play the war game should be enough for me. At first I felt bad, actually thought for a second I should just trust him. Then I got REALLY angry. I did NOTHING wrong here. He made a conscious
choice to take a woman up on her offer to dirty chat, cultivate the sexual conversation, masturbate, take very very explicit pics, lie to me when I saw them, then figure out how to post them (actually asked the players in the war game HOW to!), and got found out by his 13 year old son the day after he did it. So while I'm grateful he realized it was devastating to me and our family and has changed his tune for now I am unsure of what the future holds when he tells me he'd like his iPod back. I know u just want your H to come clean...it feels so hurtful and disrespectful. It's like they feel like they deserve their own private sexual world and if we intrude on it, they either recognize it isn't as "nothing" as a porno or mag or they get defensive and find a way to make you feel like an even bigger piece of S**t. Sometimes it's a little bit of both. I pray ur H realizes he has a devoted partner in you and you deserve at the very least honesty to show you respect. When my H started to give me attitude I calmly said "Be a man and own it. If you're hiding it on some level you know it's wrong. Just step up and be a man and then we can go forward." Maybe it will motivate ur man to step up so there can be some healing. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I know ur in pain, ur probably scared, and enormously angry. For what it's worth ur far from alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

My H didn't think it was cheating, so I asked if it was OK that I go to that site while he's at work? Then he said I would be cheating if I did that! Typical double standard. He finally agreed it would be cheating if either one of us did it. But it took 2 months just to get that far...


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## Caligyrl (Feb 18, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> This site ranks right up there with adult friend finder, in my opinion. Because the cams give their location and if they are seeking men or women, etc.


 What IS Adult Friend Finder?


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I'll watch porn from time to time when the wife is not looking because she thinks it's disgusting and makes her mad, but never have I tried anything "live online" or even thought about it. I have my favorite porn clips that I will watch that were probably filmed 3-4-5 years ago in God knows what location, and I have already told her that if I accidentally caught her masturbating in the bathtub to some hunky model's photo I wouldn't be mad. At least she would be getting some action because there sure isn't a hell of a lot going on in our bedroom, and sometimes it's my fault but usually 90% of the time it's HER making excuses and turning me down.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Caligyrl said:


> What IS Adult Friend Finder?


a sex hook up site


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## Caligyrl (Feb 18, 2012)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> a sex hook up site


GREAT...sigh......


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## Caligyrl (Feb 18, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I'll watch porn from time to time when the wife is not looking because she thinks it's disgusting and makes her mad, but never have I tried anything "live online" or even thought about it. I have my favorite porn clips that I will watch that were probably filmed 3-4-5 years ago in God knows what location, and I have already told her that if I accidentally caught her masturbating in the bathtub to some hunky model's photo I wouldn't be mad. At least she would be getting some action because there sure isn't a hell of a lot going on in our bedroom, and sometimes it's my fault but usually 90% of the time it's HER making excuses and turning me down.


That all sounds too familiar. Our sex life has prettty much gone by the way of the dodo bird, except when he wants to try the kinky crap he sees on the porn sites. For the most part, its stuff most women (myself included) do NOT like-it hurts and is not pleasurable in any way. Porn stars get paid to bypass the pain and act like they love it-its not real life. Having said that, I think every uy has their favorite star or clip and that is perfectly ok-healthy even so long as things become exciting for both.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Caligyrl said:


> That all sounds too familiar. Our sex life has prettty much gone by the way of the dodo bird, except when he wants to try the kinky crap he sees on the porn sites. For the most part, its stuff most women (myself included) do NOT like-it hurts and is not pleasurable in any way. Porn stars get paid to bypass the pain and act like they love it-its not real life. Having said that, I think every uy has their favorite star or clip and that is perfectly ok-healthy even so long as things become exciting for both.


I would much rather have HER and have HER getting all kinky and wild with me frequently, but she has made that crystal clear that she's just not that type of girl and that there are 100 things more important to her going on than having sex.


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## Caligyrl (Feb 18, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I would much rather have HER and have HER getting all kinky and wild with me frequently, but she has made that crystal clear that she's just not that type of girl and that there are 100 things more important to her going on than having sex.


 What if she didn't wanna get kinky-just lovey/steamy regular sex?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

A chap I used to know was embarrassed as his girl friend (later his wife) used to make him go to a town 20 miles away to buy her the really XXX hard core porn she wanted, but she felt uncomfortable going to the porn shop herself.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Caligyrl said:


> What if she didn't wanna get kinky-just lovey/steamy regular sex?


Nope, she's not all that interested in that approach either because I have tried..........Lord knows I have tried.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Wow. this thread got resurrected, and I say FANTASTIC!

I have learned a LOT posting here for several months now...

I have never liked porn. Never liked the idea of a fantasy women living somewhere in my walls, waiting to spring into action when I leave the house, and "take care" of my husband....hate it, hate it hate it!

And, sorry guys, I dont think you can understand how a woman feels. I am OK with some of it and I am sure lots of other women are too.

But this is easy. If it's live porn for money??? You have to PAY to get the girls to do what you want. But if it's just some "amateur" site? With people ready to cam with you for "fun"? NOT GOOD. The people online that are doing it for free?, for fun?, for tips?, whatever, they also do it to meet, or "hook up" So if your H is in their area. It's on like you-know-what! 

This is NOT porn, ladies and gentleman. It's CHEATING. It's live, that means cybersex with real women/men/couples in their bedroom...and, heck, let's throw in their location and see if we live close together?.....maybe in the same city!......(In the meantime your spouse sleeps, unloved, physically, emotionally.......somethimes for weeks, months, years(!) while the man in their life is having sex many times per week (or day!)

This kind of BS is not porn (and I don't even like porn, but I'd take it over this anyday!) It is women, men, couples who turn on a webcam and you are there, chatting or streaming in the bedroom....so what is the "cheating" boundary here?

A screen between you makes it ok? BS for real...

If you can meet them offline, that's not "porn", it's a hookup interaction. They are having online sex. Meanwhile, you go without.

There is a simple rule. If you won't do it with your spouse right there? Probably not at all good for your marriage. May be good for you, but your partner has been going forever without sex or affection....and you just go online and find someone to "take care of it"...

And I respectfully disagree with the poster who said it was OK for their wife to masturbate to pics of beautiful guys... (Interesting that it is "masturbate" if a woman does it, but it is "looking at" if guys do it....Whoever agrees with that just wants permission to do it themselves, IMO.

"She got mad cause I 'looked' at porn. Guys please stop saying this. We get mad because you orgasm while "looking" and we aren't there.

But forget about that! What we are talking about here is cam sex. That is cheating, its not even close to porn!

My H tries to confuse all this but I am seeing my way out. I think he really may BE confused about the line, and when it may be crossed, like -- if it doesn't happen "offline" then it isn't cheating. But I am clearer now than I have ever been before. And I know one thing for sure, if I did this, it would be cheating and our marriage would be over.


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

I love how these always turn into bad men watching porn when women are also some of the biggest porn users that now buy and watch porn, but that is for gotten about,The nice porn shops with carpets and female staff that sale all kinds of toys,lotions ect and have female staff WERE MADE FOR WOMEN.

If you are going to get upset because you husbad is nocking some out to a screen then you need to divorce.He is not going to stop doing it he will just hide it better.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> I love how these always turn into bad men watching porn when women are also some of the biggest porn users that now buy and watch porn, but that is for gotten about,The nice porn shops with carpets and female staff that sale all kinds of toys,lotions ect and have female staff WERE MADE FOR WOMEN.
> 
> If you are going to get upset because you husbad is nocking some out to a screen then you need to divorce.He is not going to stop doing it he will just hide it better.


Hi. No, I am not here to advocate against porn. I am here to advocate against hooking up online for sex. Look, I bought my H eurotica for his birthday and I am not a prude. However, I do find it offensive when I am being replaced by an amateur cam girl who is into meeting up in real life.

I don't need a disease. Last time I checked, "porn" didn't give you diseases.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> I love how these always turn into bad men watching porn when women are also some of the biggest porn users that now buy and watch porn, but that is for gotten about,The nice porn shops with carpets and female staff that sale all kinds of toys,lotions ect and have female staff WERE MADE FOR WOMEN.
> 
> If you are going to get upset because you husbad is nocking some out to a screen then you need to divorce.He is not going to stop doing it he will just hide it better.


And I don't see how porn shops making it easier for women to visit have anything to do with cheating.


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

If he is meeting up with a girl later on yes that is cheating,I thought it was all in front of a screen.

The first rant was on porn and was seprate from the cheating issues so that has nothing to do with cheating.

On here most of the time its about men and porn men and porn over and over again when women are a HUGE amout of the porn million/billion dollar makrket.l


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> If he is meeting up with a girl later on yes that is cheating,I thought it was all in front of a screen.
> 
> The first rant was on porn and was seprate from the cheating issues so that has nothing to do with cheating.
> 
> On here most of the time its about men and porn men and porn over and over again when women are a HUGE amout of the porn million/billion dollar makrket.l


I think most of us realise that their isporn aimed at women and bought by women, but men are stll the biggest users. It's also harmful for women to use IMO.

The reason a lot of stuff is about men/porn, men/porn over and over, might give you a clue that a lot of marriages and men have problems with porn, and it can be very harmful.

Anything that takes away from your relationship and focuses sexually on someone else is harmful IMO.


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

[little deer]Once agin we feel very different, because you don't blame the thing you look at the person,people blame Video games, drugs,porn Alchol and everything else when its the person because these things are in our society so instead of looking at the real problem in their realtionship they find something else to blame.If porn was to dissapear people would find something else to complain about.

In imo its not harmful to use,look at or anything esle.I have been looking at porn since I was 13 I think and I am very respectful towrds women and have great relatioships. I can say the same for the majority of my friends.

I think most of us stand up for freedom of choice and most of us feel different then you.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> [little deer]Once agin we feel very different, because you don't blame the thing you look at the person,people blame Video games, drugs,porn Alchol and everything else when its the person because these things are in our society so instead of looking at the real problem in their realtionship they find something else to blame.If porn was to dissapear people would find something else to complain about.
> 
> In imo its not harmful to use,look at or anything esle.I have been looking at porn since I was 13 I think and I am very respectful towrds women and have great relatioships. I can say the same for the majority of my friends.
> 
> I think most of us stand up for freedom of choice and most of us feel different then you.


True there would still be marital problems without Porn, but to me anything that takes away from your marriage and directs your sexual and emotional energy/intimacy away from your spouse is bad and leads to disconnect. These are all choices made by people. Those people shouldn't be disrespecting their spouses by doing things that can or are harmful. I blame the people for using them,but those things are still harmful.

It's hard for someone who regularly uses and enjoys something to look at it objectively.

Studies do show that men and women who use porn don't recognise how it changes their brain or how it does change their view on women and sex. It has become a norm. 

You may think you are respectful of women, but I ask how respectful can you be, when you think you have a right to use women for your sexual gratification, women who are highly likely to have been sexually abused, also sexually assaulted in the industry, likely to have little education, low job prospects, come from low socio economic backgrounds, (at least started in the sex industry) underage, hooked on drugs etc. No not all but most.

The sex industry portrays women as sexual objects and nothing more, women can be bought and sold, used for ever more degrading acts, used up and cast out.

Respectful. I don't see it that way.


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

I don't have to think I know I am very respectful person and no It has not changed me.

Women are protrayed as sex oblject all over in every day life unfortunate but trure ,where do you think the slogan came from sex sells I can I see a woman in a non-porn movie who is hot or a sex sceen so I guess that is also going to warp me. 

I am just not very conservative like you and believe that people can handle things. I am not afraid to admit I do like porn but have a look under jimmy swaggert,Jim Baker, The wide stance guy from Idaho picking up guys in the toilet or a host of other conservatives that were sneaking around with prostutues doing all sorts of things behind their wives backs and preaching aginst porn[lol] 
Resepectfully I don't see it your way.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

To me if you are plugging in "live" online and it requires a credit card and maybe even a web cam to masturbate with some chic who is REALLY there, then it's an online hookup that is a form of cheating instead of just fantasizing in my book.


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## Caligyrl (Feb 18, 2012)

Right...my issue, and my question concerning AFF was concerning LIVE cybersex. To be very simple-my hubby and I set baselines long ago. These are his words we agreed on: "If you have a happy ending with someone other than your wife-even if it is phone, cyber, oral, or real...it's cheating. Plain and simple. I don't like the idea that when I am gone or asleep he goes to porn sites to watch videos, then wants me to replicate it. But-that at least is not personal. The Adult Friend Finder is-I'm afraid.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Lost wife, my STBX was also into cybersex, and swore up and down he wasn't cheating. I disagreed. He also, like yours, said my feelings about it were invalid-"wrong" The first time, I told him I was hurt. He said he would stop. He lied. He hooked-up, he found old girlfriends, multiple A's later and he is still completely without remorse, hence the title STBX. It sounds as though your H has some remorse for hurting you, which is a great start. Good luck.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> If he is meeting up with a girl later on yes that is cheating,I thought it was all in front of a screen.
> 
> The first rant was on porn and was seprate from the cheating issues so that has nothing to do with cheating.
> 
> On here most of the time its about men and porn men and porn over and over again when women are a HUGE amout of the porn million/billion dollar makrket.l


I'm sorry, but women being part of the porn market have NOTHING to do with cheating!! Live, mutual masturbation, cam to cam sites ARE NOT PORN. They are designed for people to meet.

Men try to classify this as porn, but its not, its sex. 

Again, I don't understand why you keep bringing up women buying porn statistics? Great! If you are a women (or a man) and you like porn, go porn out! 

I am talking about a marriage and a vow of fidelity being broken. If you don't mind your spouse having sex with others as long as its online, then you don't have the problem, right?

Most wives draw the line at live hookup sites (even ones that don't like porn.) If this seems too "restrictive" then they probably shouldn't marry.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

dubbizle said:


> [little deer]Once agin we feel very different, because you don't blame the thing you look at the person,people blame Video games, drugs,porn Alchol and everything else when its the person because these things are in our society so instead of looking at the real problem in their realtionship they find something else to blame.If porn was to dissapear people would find something else to complain about.
> 
> In imo its not harmful to use,look at or anything esle.I have been looking at porn since I was 13 I think and I am very respectful towrds women and have great relatioships. I can say the same for the majority of my friends.
> 
> *I think most of us stand up for freedom of choice and most of us feel different then you.*


Which means she is free to choose how she feels about it! And so are you! The question posed in this thread was Porn or Cheating, when it comes to live sites and cam to cam chat. I am not sure if you weighed in on this but my guess is you would call this porn, even if you can meet up and really have sex with the person. As long as you haven't done that, then it isn't cheating, right? Is that your opinion?

Also, porn can be very damaging to men in some cases. Overuse of porn is leading to ED in young men for the first time in history after the introduction of the internet. The brain processes as if mating season never ends. It dulls the brain's reward system over time and there are a growing number of men who cannot perform and do not respond, to ED medication. Because the problem is not blood flow or age, but a changed brain.

And yes, I agree, the bible belt is the worst place for sexual abuse probably because of the repression regarding sex. We don't need to live in a repressed society. We need to have real, honest discussions about men and women and sex.

I am all for freedom and you are free to think whatever you like. But please don't say that little deer is somehow not as sophisticated as you because her view is not the same as yours.


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## notyouraverage (Jun 6, 2012)

My husband has determined that looking at porn (for him) allowed him to slide down the slippery slope until he was putting up profiles on sites with his picture, chatting up women, and finally meeting up and hooking up (he says one time) with a woman 2 years ago.

He said his line is now drawn so he can not even look at porn.

He drew the line. He is in therapy, I hope to be going soon. We are not in R at this time, but he seems very remorseful and transparent. Trouble is, he was pretty transparent when all this **** went down because he had online email accounts, and stupid me didn't know I should have had him on a keylogger.

I told him that good marriages don't need partners putting frickin keyloggers on machines.....


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

LostWifeCrushed said:


> Which means she is free to choose how she feels about it! And so are you! The question posed in this thread was Porn or Cheating, when it comes to live sites and cam to cam chat. I am not sure if you weighed in on this but my guess is you would call this porn, even if you can meet up and really have sex with the person. As long as you haven't done that, then it isn't cheating, right? Is that your opinion?
> 
> Also, porn can be very damaging to men in some cases. Overuse of porn is leading to ED in young men for the first time in history after the introduction of the internet. The brain processes as if mating season never ends. It dulls the brain's reward system over time and there are a growing number of men who cannot perform and do not respond, to ED medication. Because the problem is not blood flow or age, but a changed brain.
> 
> ...


Lost on page 50 of the report I link below shows the statistics on sexual abuse. I believe you overstate the bible belt as the worst. You can draw your own conclusions.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm10/cm10.pdf#page=61

The most comprehensive study of American sexual behavior ever undertaken (published by the University of Chicago and marketed under the notably non-arousing title The Social Organization of Sexuality) found that, in fact, “having a religious affiliation was associated with higher rates of orgasm for women.” The devout are actually having better sex than the rest of us.

Why Are Christians Having Better Sex Than the Rest of Us? - The Daily Beast

I have been around both liberal and conservative churches most of my life. I have pastored and served as a chaplain. Attended both secular and christian colleges and grad schools. Again, statistically sexual repression in the bible belt is not born out in the data. People in committed marriages have better sex. Conservative Christianity promotes committed marriages and I think that is why you see data showing higher orgasmic rates among women in these groups.

Many conservative pastors for whom I have known are not repressive in their preaching nor in their counsel. Where some may not like it is their views on abortion, pre-marital sex, same sex issues, etc. Many may look at this as narrow minded and repressive, I get that. But when it comes to sex the evangelical community in the bible belt does not come out as repressive. 

BTW, your discussion on E.D. and porn is dead on.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> Lost on page 50 of the report I link below shows the statistics on sexual abuse. I believe you overstate the bible belt as the worst. You can draw your own conclusions.
> 
> http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm10/cm10.pdf#page=61
> 
> ...


Thor, I have not yet had time to read this link, but I certainly will! Thanks for posting this.

I do have a question, though. Are you equating intact marriages and the bible belt?


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> Lost on page 50 of the report I link below shows the statistics on sexual abuse. I believe you overstate the bible belt as the worst. You can draw your own conclusions.
> 
> http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm10/cm10.pdf#page=61
> 
> ...


Those are some very interesting statistics. Being that all any of us ever have are reported cases, I suppose arguments can, will and have been made on all sides. Really eye opening in any case. I do remember several discussions in class about what makes victims feel comfortable coming forward. Its just such a complex issue, I should have known better than to make a general broad-sweeping statement. But culture does influence sexual mores and norms. Some "repressive" religious environments do give rise to the stereotypes I guess. Like THE biggest partiers in HS were the ones from Jesuit! (the all boys Catholic high school in our area, and I'm not kidding)...

Also, I think there is an interesting case to made regarding priests who are gay. I am sure I will ruffle some fur here......but when society does not accept homosexuality, at least in times past, a refuge could be found in the monastery. Same for lesbian women. The only option long ago was to become a nun. Being an unmarried "spinster" was not even attainable. Women could not own property. But it is these same societies that turn on them when they are "outed" and burn them at the stake! (Generalizing here, but still)

The other side of the coin is the legislation of morality. This varies by state! And it is also very loosely enforced, based on gender. For instance, a BJ - even between a committed couple - is "technically" illegal but unlikely to be prosecuted!

By the way, I think you are dead on in saying women in spiritually based committed relationships are happier sexually. I think because these relationships contain more than the physical and material world and have, at least attempted, to wed the souls.


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