# I dont think its repairable :(



## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

Ill try and keep this brief, this is more advice about how to approach the subject.

Married almost 10 years with two children. My husband has been emotionally abusive and contolling in the past, as less then two weeks ago he tried locking me out the house 3 times and threw my laptop on our front garden so I would get it and he would lock me out because I had 'set out to pee him off'.

Two months ago he once again accused me of cheating and called me names that would probably be sensored on the forum, and when our young kids asked why daddy was shouting at mummy he said because I was performing sexual acts upon my employer.

These are just a couple of examples. I have spoken to a solicitor (without his knowledge) who says I should file for divorce and to report any further incidents to the police, which I hadnt done in the past, the incident with tryiing to lock me out and throwing my laptop was reported as that happened after I spoke to solicitor.

However, the following day he said he realised something wasnt right and he went to doctors and is now being treated for depression (Ive had depression for 8 years, doctor says its probably reactive to whats gone on at home), and his doc wanted to put him on anti-psycotics, but he refused because he cant do his job otherwise.

Back to the hear and now though, things are really stale at home, polite and civil for the kids sake, but not good otherwise. We sat down and talked the other night and he says he wants me to make a decision and I want him to make one. In a way I do, I wouldnt talk him out of it if he packed his bags and left. Im scared of him, and even though he has seeked treatment, Ive spent 10 years waiting for the next blowout which are never plesant and previosuly have always happened given time. Ive shut off alot of my emotions to protect myself which is making it hard to take the lead.

I have given up, I just cant say that I have...
Any advice anyone please, I dont know what to do


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Ladybird, the behaviors you describe -- irrational lack of trust, verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and controlling nature -- go well beyond those attributable to depression. In several respects, these behaviors resemble those of my abusive exW and Maybe's abusive W. 

Our experiences with abusive spouses are described in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion of abusive symptoms rings a bell -- and most of the symptoms sound familiar -- I would be glad to discuss them with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Ladybird.


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

Hi Uptown, thank you for replying 

I have recognised and come to terms with the fact this has been emotional/verbal abuse, and when I told my doctor that husband had been prescribed anti-d's as well, he just said 'and??, youve got depression and how many times have you gone off the handle, thrown a tantrum, called him names, tried to lock him out the house.' I know he's right. I have a domestic violence worker and also since reporting the last incident to the police I have also spoken to their department as well.

Its just not knowing what to do now. He plays games, he threatened to leave and I gave no response, then turned it around and said I was the one with the problem I should leave. When he says things like this its a game, a test he doesnt mean them, the only way through this is for me to outright tell him to leave but I just cant find the emotional strength 

He has said himself he cant promise he wont loose his temper again, so here is the waiting game.. again


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

ladybird1983 said:


> When I told my doctor that husband had been prescribed anti-d's as well, he just said 'and??, youve got depression and how many times have you gone off the handle, thrown a tantrum, called him names, tried to lock him out the house.' I know he's right.


Ladybird, at this point I am very confused. Now you are describing YOURSELF as throwing tantrums and locking him out of the house. Are you now saying that you both have a serious anger management problem?


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

No sorry didnt explain myself well, the doctor was saying its not an excuse for his behaviour, it was a rhitorical question, the answer is I have never done any of those things whereas he has.

Does that make sense?

I dont really do angry for some reason, I have a high threshold, I get annoyed, frustrated, peed off but never really got angry.


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

We have a very different arguing style, he will rant and rave and waggled his finger and his way is right, everything I say he twists around, so I tend to sit and not say much, which just annoys him even more, I try and be constructive with my answers and think them through first, Its very rare Ill say something I wish I hadnt.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

ladybird1983 said:


> The doctor was saying its not an excuse for his behaviour.... Does that make sense?


Yes, thank you. I understand now. The doctor was telling you exactly what I said above in my first post -- that your H's anger issues, inability to trust you, and temper tantrums go far beyond the problems caused by depression alone. Again, I encourage you to follow the link I provided above and see if the behaviors I describe there sound very familiar. If so, I would be glad to discuss them with you.


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

Hi Uptown
Thank you again for replying, yes the behaviours you describe just in the first paragraph do fit and I can think of an example for nearly every one.

He said the doctor wanted to prescribe him anti-psycotics because of his thought processes and he admitted to me he has in the past had suicidal thoughts. Also his doctor agrees with something I said a long time ago, he was into a lot of different drugs before I met him, and occassionally since we have been together, and the doctor cant rule out that some of these have had a long term effect.

He said a strange thing the other week, it was the day after he had seen the doctor and he had been to the pub and was just about to go back out and he said 'Ive been horrible to you over the years, I have to live with that, you have to decide if you can live with it and I wouldnt blame you if you didnt want to be with me anymore, BUT dont forget I was there for you with your depression'. I didnt get into this conversation because he had had a drink and cant be quite unpredictable...

Im coming through the other side of depression, I think he wants me to stay to help him through it, but I dont want to and I dont have the emotional energy too, as Im putting all that into getting myself better for the sake of the kids. For the first time in years Im trying to put myself first and I feel like he's trying to take that away, its all become about him when Ive had no support of him for 8 years of depression and Ive had to find my way myself (and with the help of friends and counsillers), he has been very cruel about my depression and thrown it back at me many times 

We are barely talking at the moment once the kids have gone to bed, its horrible


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Yes, thank you. I understand now. The doctor was telling you exactly what I said above in my first post -- that your H's anger issues, inability to trust you, and temper tantrums go far beyond the problems caused by depression alone. Again, I encourage you to follow the link I provided above and see if the behaviors I describe there sound very familiar. If so, I would be glad to discuss them with you.


Also, the problem have always been there, I was just naiive at the beginning and hoped it would get better, he hasnt trusted me from the very start of the relationship and has had major tantrums and blow outs right from the beginning. On our honeymoon I remember him chasing me round the hotel saying he wanted a divorce and throwing pint glasses in my direction (but not at me) and chucking chairs around the hotel room, all because I wasnt joining in with the pubs and drinking (I was 12 weeks pregnant)

Just to clarify here our honeymoon was a 1 week holiday which had already been booked with his brother and 5 of his mates and one of their girlfriends, we didnt have a lot of money so we called it our 'honeymoon'.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

ladybird1983 said:


> Uptown... yes the behaviours you describe just in the first paragraph do fit and I can think of an example for nearly every one.


Ladybird, are you saying, then, that my descriptions in the remaining 34 paragraphs of that post do not seem applicable?


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

No I was just highlighting the first one  Some of it does apply, but not all the time, and a lot of his behaviour comes out at its worst when he's had a drink

Looking back, the role of the saviour didnt apply in quite that way, more possibly I looked at him as a 'rescuer', I had never been in a proper relationship. I met him during a time of my life when I was going through the third stage of a trauma process, and I wanted to be wanted and loved, and he took at interest in me and I didnt let it go.

Its very hard for me being someone with depression myself to analyze it too much, as having a more negative view on things anyway, I dont know if its like when you read a horoscope and then you subconsciously make it fit. Also only recently being told and coming to the realisation that he has been verbally and emotionally abusive over the last 10 years and come as quite a shock and wake-up call.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Ladybird

Have you always been on depression meds, or only after you met your mate? The reason I ask is that I've seen many times where a spouse is depressed, then after separation or divorce, they realize they don't need the meds anymore.

Sometimes, when you are emotionally abused, you end up thinking you are the "crazy" one, and it's only because of they constant abuse and walking on eggshells that you started suffering from depression.


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## izzy123 (Aug 23, 2012)

FWIW, I say that it worth much that both you and your spouse are taking ownership (at least to certain degrees) of your emotional states.

My wife is depressed. She takes medication because I took her to therapy then a psychiatrist 14 years ago when she had post-partum after our first was born. She is not capable of acknowledging that she has a problem. Not to dwell on my issue on your post, but my point is that taking ownership is big - take the observation for whatever it is worth.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Right now, you need to tend to you and your children. A lot of therapy for all of you is in order. What your husband has said and done, in the presence of the children, is traumatic for them--they didn't experience it as you did, and they need help. 

He needs to do more than just apologize. He needs to do the right thing, let you go w/o guilt. Honey, if you were depressed, living with him was probably the reason. And now he wants brownie points for having stayed with you then? You were his victim--he wouldn't have left you no matter what. He gets no credit for that.

Please leave, tend to yourself and the kids, and let him know that if he tends to himself, maybe someday the two of you can be back together again. Chances are that neither of you will want that if you both get healthy, but hey, maybe you will. Better chances are that he will not get well and will continue to want you back, but a healthier you will realize that is NEVER going to happen. 

Good luck.


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## IAdoreDogs (Aug 24, 2012)

Ladybird,

Your marriage sounds a LOT like mine!

Here's a suggestion:

Close your eyes and calm your mind.
Just have stillness and no thinking for a minute or two.
Now imagine that you are actually your mother. In other words, you are the age of your mother, and it is your daughter in this situation. Really try to separate from being the one in the dilemma.....you want space and separation. What do you tell your daughter? What do you think she should do? What suggestions do you have for her?

I've had a lot of frank moments with myself this way 

Thank God the police seem to be supporting you. In my case, a visit to the police station one afternoon after my husband slapped my daughter across the face for taking something from my son's room resulted in a policeman calling my husband on the phone and telling him that my daughter needed more slapping around to keep her straight and that all women in my area just like to whine. 

In any case, with a man who can lean toward the violent, any and all police support is a VERY good thing! Be true to yourself and much luck to you!


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> Ladybird
> 
> Have you always been on depression meds, or only after you met your mate? The reason I ask is that I've seen many times where a spouse is depressed, then after separation or divorce, they realize they don't need the meds anymore.
> 
> Sometimes, when you are emotionally abused, you end up thinking you are the "crazy" one, and it's only because of they constant abuse and walking on eggshells that you started suffering from depression.


It started with Post Natal Depression after the birth of my first child, and it never went away, so yes I have only been on the meds since Ive been with him, I think a part of why it has all got so much worse lately is because I am stronger, and I am getting better, when he has a go at me I can take it whereas I used to break down in tears. I know Im on the road to recovery, because I am happy in my life with everything else going on, except the home situation


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

izzy123 said:


> FWIW, I say that it worth much that both you and your spouse are taking ownership (at least to certain degrees) of your emotional states.
> 
> My wife is depressed. She takes medication because I took her to therapy then a psychiatrist 14 years ago when she had post-partum after our first was born. She is not capable of acknowledging that she has a problem. Not to dwell on my issue on your post, but my point is that taking ownership is big - take the observation for whatever it is worth.


Thank you for replying Izzy, I always accepted the depression and I actively seek help in beating it, Ive seen counsillors and at the moment I am reading through some CBT stuff which comes with audio programs which really really help.

As I said I am pleased my husband has been to the doctor, but I dont think he realised taking a couple of tablets isnt going to solve the problem alone. He already refused marriage counselling so I cant see him seeing a counsiler for this, but I may be wrong...


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

sisters359 said:


> Right now, you need to tend to you and your children. A lot of therapy for all of you is in order. What your husband has said and done, in the presence of the children, is traumatic for them--they didn't experience it as you did, and they need help.
> 
> He needs to do more than just apologize. He needs to do the right thing, let you go w/o guilt. Honey, if you were depressed, living with him was probably the reason. And now he wants brownie points for having stayed with you then? You were his victim--he wouldn't have left you no matter what. He gets no credit for that.
> 
> ...


Thank you Sisters, this meant a lot, and you are completely right, I think the kids is what is pushing me in the direction to be proactive because I dont want my son thinking this is how men treat women and I dont want my daughter thinking this is normal acceptable behaviour, I want to protect them. Its not healthy for any of us (him included) in the current situation.


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

IAdoreDogs said:


> Ladybird,
> 
> Your marriage sounds a LOT like mine!
> 
> ...


I have a really good relastionship with my mother, and I know what my suggestion would be to myself but taking myself out of the situation, but thats what I cant seem to find the strength to do  My dad just wants me to hurry up and move things along, but its not that easy.

I cant believe the police said that  I was lucky, although I did have to beg them not to contact my husband, I only wanted it reported as an incident and that was under the solicitors and domestic violence teams advice...


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

Just another update:

Went round a friends for a glass of wine, ended up going out, Huband shipped kids off to his mothers. All was going okay except the odd comment when I was getting ready, then later after I text him to say we were going into town he started bugging me by text, I text him to say I would be home soon but it took longer than I thought to drag my friend away, after I had said I would be home soon I put my phone in my bag and by the time I got home he had called me 26 times which having had a drink and phone buried in bag I hadnt heard.

I got home and he spent the next hour half hounding me in the house, accusing of kissing and sleeping with someone, he would not leave me alone and followed me around ranting (he was drunk and on something else) I eventually walked out in my pj's and flagged a cab to my MIL's where the kids were and slept on the sofa.

Phone battery went so his brothers girlfriend plugged in for me and must of switched it back on for me and put on silent, woke up next morning with 80 missed calls and voicemails. His mum phoned him to tell him where I was and he didnt believe her. His brother and mum dropped me back and he started hounding me again, I ended up locking myself in the bathroom for 2 hours until he eventually fell asleep.

It was hell, and my crime, not answering my phone  

Now sober we spoke this morning, he cant even remember me coming home and insists I didnt (although I did point out how did I get into my pj's, dressing gown and slippers if I hadnt come home)

He is convinced I did something which I hand on heart didnt do, he even says one of his friends rang him because they had seen me which is impossible, I didnt even talk to another man, it was just us two girls. I dont get legless and always remember everything when I drink (which isnt often)

I dont know for how much longer I can defend my innocence


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## izzy123 (Aug 23, 2012)

ladybird1983 said:


> Just another update:
> 
> He is convinced I did something which I hand on heart didnt do, he even says one of his friends rang him because they had seen me which is impossible, I didnt even talk to another man, it was just us two girls. I dont get legless and always remember everything when I drink (which isnt often)
> 
> I dont know for how much longer I can defend my innocence


Ouch - that is rough.

Suggestion - don't defend yourself more than saying "no, that's not what happened" and leave it at that. Leave it to him to deny + accuse as he likes, but don't make his problem your problem.


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## izzy123 (Aug 23, 2012)

Also - do you have a confidant to talk to? You need someone to hear you out and give you emotional space w/o stepping in telling you what to do about it.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Ladybird, thanks for the update. As I mentioned earlier, the irrational jealousy, controlling behavior, verbal abuse, emotional instability, and temper tantrums you are describing are several of the hallmarks of a person having strong BPD traits. I suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two _by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with -- and how likely it is he may pass it on to your two children. As I've explained in other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder.

Second, I suggest -- while you are waiting for an appointment -- you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to abused spouses living with someone having strong BPD traits. By reading it, you can see if most of the BPD red flags sound very familiar. Another best seller on the same topic is _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!_

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. The message boards that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Staying" board and "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD."

Fourth, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is "Surviving a Breakup with Someone with BPD" at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

Fifth, if you get to the point of suspecting your H has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell him. If he is a BPDer (a person with strong traits), he almost certainly would project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage him to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell him.

Finally, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Again, thanks for the update, Ladybird.


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

Thank you for your reply Uptown, I will certainly look into the links you have provided and have taken on the information you have provided.

Ive had a scare tonight, started going through my voicemails, one of them he clearly says he will 'beat the f**k out of me'


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Ladybird, before erasing that hostile message, be sure to record it for evidence. Indeed, if it were me, I would be recording him with a VAR every time he has an outburst.


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## izzy123 (Aug 23, 2012)

_Ive had a scare tonight, started going through my voicemails, one of them he clearly says he will 'beat the f**k out of me_

He gave you evidence on a silver platter - what are you going to do with it?


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## ladybird1983 (Jun 4, 2012)

Thank you Izzy and Uptown for replying

I have found a way to record the voicemails directly onto my PC in MP3 format, I have taken these off my computer and given to my brother who is putting on CD. 

He has threatened to beat me up twice in them, said 'your gonna get it' which is also said in a threatening manner, and has also said he would beat the f**k out of my dogs, and then later threatened to kill them.

I have spoken to my DV worker who advised that if I did report to the Police they would have to invesitigate as a threat of harm has been made, so just to be aware of that. Im not ready for that at the moment, I dont feel its necessary (he has no recollition of that nite so probably has no idea what he said in these voicemails and is not aware I have recorded them, but then, he hasnt even asked  )

I feel after all thats gone on, it would not be beneficial to the kids to see their daddy taken away by the Police. I need to end this marriage myself, I need to ask him to move out somehow. Solicitor said I would be able to get a Protection Order and this is without the voicemails, but again I dont want to go there if I dont have to for the kids sake.

*How do I find the strength to say the words? *I have to be direct, Ive already tried the gently gently approach and he either cant see what Im saying or refuses to accept it 

He finished work at lunchtime on fridays and didnt come home this evening, I was on edge the whole time in case he was at the pub (usual Friday event) and was going to come home and kick off, every loud noise made me jump and I was trembling, I cant live like this 

We have barely said two words all week, he has come home and pretty much fallen straight asleep and is gone for work before I get up (he's sleeping on the sofa)...

I know this is a build up to another explosion...


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