# Re: Silverbird.



## MrSilverbird (Mar 12, 2018)

*Re: Silverbird.*

I disagree that it's disrespectful for me to state my side of the story on here. It's a marriage forum. We are separated now but it was our marriage, as in, two people, two sides of the story. Maybe it would have been wiser to start my own post, but was being defamed on her post so I wanted to post on there. However, I am not looking to pick a fight, I just want to be able to share my side of the story too so to avoid further chaos, here's my own whole thread for the purpose of posting a single reply to Silverbird. That's all, I'm not going to be on here after this.

The trial separation was your idea but I agreed to it because it was the best option for us. I know you think that I wanted to separate to date this other woman and then just break the news to you when I'd gotten with her but that's not true. I agreed to separate because I knew that if our marriage had any chance then I needed a breather to be able to stand back and see things from a distance. That's one way it could have gone. But it was too late for that anyway. The separation- being separated for even just a short while made me realise that I didn't want to be in the marriage at all anymore. It made me realise how much of myself I'd forgotten and left behind all these years. That's why I did that. I didn't and wouldn't have been able to just tell you to start with because I didn't know, or perhaps deep down I did but I needed to make sure. I needed that few weeks being apart. Then after that realisation, I was able to make the decision of making the separation permanent, only after having that time to think. I'm sorry but it just happened that way.

That's not the reason I said those things the afternoon of the book launch. I was trying to be honest with you about the event because I know that you are very extremely introverted and can be very shy and didn't want to put you in a situation you felt uncomfortable. I didn't want you to go and to feel bored or uncomfortable and end up standing around awkwardly. I know you hate having to do that at things we are usually invited to and I knew you wouldn't know many people there either. On previous occasions when you have had to endure those types of situations, you have come home and been extremely irritable afterwards and taken it out on me so I was trying to avoid having you in that situation. That's why. 

As for giving her a lift, I give many people lifts to many different things. This was no different than that. Her car was getting serviced and it was taking longer than expected so she didn't have one. Done. End of it.

Yes, I had emotionally detached from you and I'm sorry that happened but it just did. After many years of putting up with the same issues, I guess I couldn't take it anymore. It wasn't a conscious decision. But I was never uncaring even if I was distant. I still made sure your needs were met. I packed you lunch every morning, I made you a tea or coffee, made dinner, made sure you had what you needed, things like that. But yes, towards the end it was not a relationship it was more like we were just housemates. But I always remained kind to you.

As for her age, you really felt the need to bring it up, didn't you?

Okay, you started it by calling her a spoilt millennial brat, so lets go there. We're going there now.

I know in a lot of cases men around my age go with younger women. I have asked myself why. Is it just sex? Immaturity? Possibly, not necessarily. Maybe it's being passionate and spontaneous, adventurous. That's possibly why. Perhaps she reminds me of a lot of things I'd lost in myself over time, including happiness. Perhaps I remembered those. It's nice to see someone with such enthusiasm and passion for life. It rubs off. Perhaps it's just a rebound, a release or just a momentary and much needed breath of fresh air, perhaps it's not going to work. But there is more to it than sex. I'm not claiming anything grandiose here with her, I'm not stupid, I'm just saying that perhaps it shouldn't always boiled down to sex and immaturity. 

Maybe there was attraction there, maybe it wasn't, but I didn't act on it either way. We didn't see each other that often but she did tend to hang around Alan and his friends so we would see each other, but there were always others there. Regardless, I was becoming more clear on what happiness even meant and I knew that I wasn't happy staying the same. It was inevitable. Whether or not knowing her, getting to know her or having attraction for her sped up the process, it wasn't why it happened. It wasn't a guaranteed thing. It wasn't a thing at all. Up until a few weeks ago I didn't even know if she liked me for real, or if it was just a casual thing for her. I had to ask where I stood. So yes we were friends for a while beforehand, no it was not building up to this specifically. I'm not blinded by her, she's not the reason. 

"...Walk out on your wife and children..." - Nonsense. I did not walk out on our kids. I left you because it was all I could take anymore. I didn't leave the kids so don't play the 'I can get sympathy by quoting stereotypes as the innocent wife' card. We share the kids pretty much equally. I love them and will always be in their lives. And I will always try to be kind and courteous to you, you are the mother of my children for goodness sake. Looking back, I'd want no other woman to be the mother of my children, regardless of who I am with. You will always be that person to me and to our children.

The bottom line is this, I was no longer happy, had given it my all, it was irreparable, you weren't even *bothering* to try fix it by reaching my needs and so I no longer wanted to be in the marriage. You knew that. I've heard a lot about 'affair fog' but what about the fog in which you chose to completely ignore my needs and pretend everything was okay? Or the fog in which you accuse me of having an 'EA' in order to shift the blame for the real cause of the failed marriage? You knew it was coming, you just somehow still expected me not to leave. I guess you just expected me to put up with being miserable which is what I have always done. I don't want to do that anymore.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*

Couldn't help but notice the elephant in the room...
@MrSilverbird it's nice that you can clarify that you had no romantic interests in this woman prior to the separation but that doesn't negate the fact that you are currently seeing another woman while you are still married to your wife. AKA you are cheating.

Did you not indicate that you would use this time to try to figure out how to work things out??? 

How do you spend so much time writing trying to convince your wife that you didn't plan on cheating without acknowledging that you deed indeed cheating?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*

Two voices, two speakers, both literate.

Seemingly diametrically opposed, yet two sides of the same coin.
Seemingly the voices come from the same principle.
More a dialectic, less a defense.

Two of you set the stage.
Only one speaks at a time. 

We can choose one, but we get the other in tow.
It seems that in order to understand this marital unwinding, we must climb into this, your conveyance.

I hear two beings open the onion, layer by layer.
But, I image only one voice.

One side explaining, yet elucidating as two.

I have two ears, hear one voice slightly altered, extrapolating two stories.


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## MrSilverbird (Mar 12, 2018)

*Re: Silverbird.*

Order of events:

Trial separation originally suggested by Silverbird
Separated for a few weeks, self realisation 
Realisation of true feelings, wanted to make separation permanent
Made separation permanent 
Still married yes, but separated permanently, dating now.

The separation could have gone 2 ways. 1, reconciliation and going back to the same permanent problems and pretty much just burying my feelings and living with it, and 2, realising that I was happy being separated and making it permanent. It went #2.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*

@MrSilverbird, thank you for clarifying. I see now why you placed so much emphasis on clarifying when you became interested in this woman. 

Either way, a very hard blow on Silverbird to see you move on so quickly. I suppose you're not too far removed to empathize/understand how difficult that may be for her to come to terms with.

As you acknowledge, faults on both sides. I'm not sure trying to sort out who's to blame for what, is helpful to you two right now. Time for healing and trying to minimize hurt instead of digging the daggers deeper.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

*Re: Silverbird.*



MrSilverbird said:


> Maybe there was attraction there, maybe it wasn't, but I didn't act on it either way. We didn't see each other that often but she did tend to hang around Alan and his friends so we would see each other, but there were always others there. Regardless, I was becoming more clear on what happiness even meant and I knew that I wasn't happy staying the same. It was inevitable. Whether or not knowing her, getting to know her or having attraction for her sped up the process, it wasn't why it happened. It wasn't a guaranteed thing. It wasn't a thing at all. Up until a few weeks ago I didn't even know if she liked me for real, or if it was just a casual thing for her. I had to ask where I stood. So yes we were friends for a while beforehand, no it was not building up to this specifically. I'm not blinded by her, she's not the reason.


The above demonstrates that the GF was the catalyst and you knew it and let it happen. In the back of your mind the GF was the hope of a "soft landing" so to speak. That is a dishonorable way to end a marriage, no matter how bad the marriage.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re: Silverbird.*

I would also take issue with "getting your side of the story out" but not choosing to participate in this forum.

What then is the point?

We're a bunch of strangers. You'll never meet us. What in the world do you care what we think?

If we can help your soon to be ex-wife, so what? Isn't that a good thing?

Seems rather selfish to insist on "getting your story out" without seeking any feedback. It also seems a bit cowardly to hit and run.

What Red Sonja says is quite prescient.

I got a divorce 11-12 years ago. My ex and I struggled for years. I remember the rush and the thrill of escaping what felt like a prison.

It doesn't last if you don't work on your own issues.

So, go off and "be happy". Also, don't be surprised if you and the new gal find yourselves in a similar spot in a matter of years... perhaps months.

You may want to choose a different username when you come back.


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## annierose7995 (Mar 11, 2018)

*Re: Silverbird.*

It's written in the first paragraph that the purpose of this thread was just to reply to Silverbird- not to engage in discussion about it after, Mr. Silverbird choosing to start a new thread as oppose to just replying to hers; for the means of not further aggravating/invading the space of Mrs. Silverbird on her own thread, an idea which was encouraged by other members. Both Mr. and Mrs. have the right to share their side of the story on here, their level of engagement in replying is their own choosing. Possibly the reason why Mr. Silverbird chose not to engage further is because he is apprehensive of responses being one-sided. Or maybe he just wishes not to have anything more to do with it. I myself have seen on this forum, by searching through years worth of posts, times where a group of members pick a side (usually the most obvious) and then all jump on the bandwagon to vilify and pull apart the other, or at least, make the easiest assumptions. 

We are all from different backgrounds and naturally have bias towards what we have experienced ourselves and as it is, even if all members were somehow perfect and unbiased, this is an internet forum. The information provided for us to read, gather thought and then form a judgement about is provided to us solely by written text through a computer screen, and by the context in which the author chooses to present to us.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Silverbird.*

Thank you for telling your side, @MrSilverbird.

While I personally do not agree with starting a new relationship whilst still married, it's a choice you made and felt was best. I only hope you chose wisely. 

If @Silverbird had come here before your separation, many of us here would have dissuaded her from suggesting it. Repairing a marriage while separated has a very, very bad track record, and what usually happens is, one spouse totally disengages and persues another relationship, whether it was already in the works prior or not. 

Since you do not appear to be staying with us (if that is really your wish) then I'd ask you to leave @Silverbird with us and go enjoy your life.

I'll keep asking her to file divorce papers because it is less about doing the "right thing" and more about doing what I think would be the right thing for her, to detach.

She has readily admitted her many faults in her opening post, her neglecting of your needs for instance, but when seeing you engage with the OW a mere two months after separation was "official", well there must be a part of you that can understand why she would be hurt and angry and questioning the person you are.

She's beating herself up enough, but as you yourself said, the issues leading to breakdown were the fault of you both. 

My husband, Odo, is an ex poster here. He has some really harsh truths that he spouts, which is one reason I love him. He'd say simply that younger women embody two things that healthy men are drawn to: youth and fertility. I should know, I'm 16 years younger than him. We met when 33 and 49 and are now 37 and 53.

Another Odo truthism: "all things men do lead to the hopeful prospect of sex." I'm just the messenger, and the first time he said it, I had to laugh and disagree, but he is absolutely sure of it. Maybe it's a 7 Degrees of Kevin Bacon kind of thing, but no matter what reasons you may give here, you would not be able to convince my husband of any reason for being with the OW other than you ultimately wanted sex. That is especially true he believes, based on the fast pace of the relationship. 

Whether things are meant to last between you may not ultimately matter to you, but the world is very different to a 33 vs. 23 year-old.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re: Silverbird.*



Satya said:


> Thank you for telling your side, @MrSilverbird.
> 
> While I personally do not agree with starting a new relationship whilst still married, it's a choice you made and felt was best. I only hope you chose wisely.
> 
> ...


Odo is right about social situations.

I would say he's not right about the workplace. I have about 22 young ladies working for my wife and I and none of that interaction is about sex.

And, before you ask, there are women that work for me that are "old enough" to be interesting.

Yes, most of them are younger than my daughter - which makes me look at them as babies.

(Their behavior plays a role in that also


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

*Re: Silverbird.*



Satya said:


> Thank you for telling your side, @MrSilverbird.
> 
> Since you do not appear to be staying with us (if that is really your wish) then I'd ask you to leave @Silverbird with us and go enjoy your life.


THIS. Exactly.

Of course there are 2 sides to the story. There always are. But your wife seems to feel isolated and betrayed and does not seem to have anywhere else to go, and you need to hunt down this forum and post your defense??

If you think you are in the right, if you think you are doing the right thing by being with this new woman during what was described as a trial separation, then why do you need to defend yourself?

The bottom line is: Your wife does not seem to think there would be other parties involved in your separation, and the reality of it has thrown her for a loop (understandably, IMO). Your reaction is to invade her source of solace, not, it seems, for you own introspection but to discredit her in this public forum. Can't respect that.

Run @Silverbird.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*



annierose7995 said:


> The information provided for us to read, gather thought and then form a judgement about is provided to us solely by written text through a computer screen, *and by the context in which the author chooses to present to us.*


Bingo!

He owns the words, we, the interpretation of those words. The {arranged and '''purposely''' positioned intent} of those words.

A catalyst, a needle for discussion. 

Material, filler for a book, a mindful thesis for observation, for thoughtful collection.

Maybe, for prurient observation.

Us, being bugs in a shaken jar, he making notes.

Just Sayin"

Intuiting, postulating, farting in the downwind.

The Typist II


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Silverbird.*

OP,

This part where you screwed up is when she suggested separation. You should have told her, ok you separate, but I'm filing for divorce.

Plenty of blame to go around on both sides for the breakdown of your marriage.

If you're done, then be honest and say so.
And yes, lack of sex is a perfectly good reason to divorce a spouse for.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re: Silverbird.*



Windwalker said:


> OP,
> 
> This part where you screwed up is when she suggested separation. You should have told her, ok you separate, but I'm filing for divorce.
> 
> ...


Sounds like she pushed boundaries and you meekly accepted them - and gave yourself permission for the ultimate betrayal.

I wonder how things would have gone had you stood up to her?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*



Satya said:


> Another Odo truthism: "all things men do lead to the hopeful prospect of sex." I'm just the messenger, and the first time he said it, I had to laugh and disagree, but he is absolutely sure of it.


Odo is prescient, is correct.

Men *do* think this way.

In 90% of the cases.

The other 10%, what are their hopes for these 'new' lady prospects?

a) Companionship.Having a person to hang onto your arm. Someone to go places with, someone to show off.
b) Being feted, fed well, or better fed than before.
c) Gaining a matron, a mommy. a caring person. A person to take care of life's business, so that they can get on with their hobbies, more easily.
d) Gaining an ear to bend and to soak with their fears, their tears and maybe their faux wrath.


As men age....

The 90% goes down, the 10% goes up.

Why? The erections go down in count, hence, they count less.

Ah! But not always..


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re: Silverbird.*



SunCMars said:


> Odo is prescient, is correct.
> 
> Men *do* think this way.
> 
> ...


But, sometimes we simply tire of the "I'm more important than you game"

Because you aren't.

You spend all that time showing us how much you don't need us.

Then when you want us.... we may not be there.

When pains in the ass disappear, it's a good thing.

All worth pondering.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*



ReturntoZero said:


> But, sometimes we simply tire of the "I'm more important than you game"
> 
> Because you aren't.
> 
> ...


Gads...

You had to say it...had to open your mouth.

This thing is...

Not all women are pains in the ass. Sometimes the men are more-so, this.

But, yes..
It seems that women lay in this bed mold more-so, take this shape. Appear this way. At least to men.

Women will have their reasons, will voice them vociferously. 
They cannot get their men to 'obey' if they do not nag. Frequently, disparagingly so.

Men's only sane recourse is to: 

Close their ears.
Close their minds.

Break away, go solo.
Trade the old for a 'different' model. And hope for the best.

Most men will suck it up, close their ears and die unhappy. Well, mostly unhappy.
Such is life on earth.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re: Silverbird.*



SunCMars said:


> Gads...
> 
> You had to say it...had to open your mouth.
> 
> ...


THAT is the story of so many lives.

If you press many of them, what you will hear is the following:

"If I don't stay on him, he won't do ANYTHING"

If you peel back the onion...

He was eager to please you at one time in your relationship. He did many things and was almost never met with a thank you. What he got was "If only you'd done it this way..." Or.. it's twin brother... "What I was REALLY hoping for..."

My wife asked me when we were dating what I was looking for in a woman

I responded:

"One who figures out what she wants BEFORE I take action. Not immediately after I'm done"

She laughed.

She should not have laughed.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*

If you have to nag and beg a man to do something 'reasonable' you have man who has detached, not so much in love.

If your man used to do things, willingly, happily, quickly and now does not, you have a man who has detached, not so much in love.

If the man was always a laggard, lazy, non responsive, a procrastinator, why would he be different, once married. 

Oh, I know, men will go out of their way for the first few months to get sex, but that will taper off rather quickly.

The wife seeing the man not responding [obeying] often makes the remaining love go away by harping, belittling, disparaging, comparing him to other and better husbands.

The answer is to win back the love....if possible, if worth it to the wife.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re: Silverbird.*



SunCMars said:


> If you have to nag and beg a man to do something 'reasonable' you have man who has detached, not so much in love.
> 
> If your man used to do things, willingly, happily, quickly and now does not, you have a man who has detached, not so much in love.
> 
> ...


Ah, but the wife would have to recognize her own role in the dysfunction.

AND, if said wife has PTSD or another personality-disorder... that's a difficult thing to do.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*



> What he got was "If only you'd done it this way..."


Yep.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re: Silverbird.*



toblerone said:


> Yep.


When a "Damn honey thanks".... and a passionate kiss would have gotten double the work next time - and much faster.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

*Re: Silverbird.*

MrSilver, I think you should let the other woman go and work on your marriage. I think you should stop dating this other woman and start dating your wife. Your wife is remorseful. She takes responsibility for her part in the breakdown of the marriage and neglecting your needs. You didn't even have to post here to say that. She already said it. And that means there is a good foundation, if not catalyst, for reconcilation and getting it right. I mean, seriously, everything that occurred in your marriage is going to come to haunt you. Your life is going to repeat itself unless two people learn to do things differently, which is the reason you and she should go to counseling. 

And as for this part:



MrSilverbird said:


> "...Walk out on your wife and children..." - Nonsense. I did not walk out on our kids. I left you because it was all I could take anymore. I didn't leave the kids so don't play the 'I can get sympathy by quoting stereotypes as the innocent wife' card. We share the kids pretty much equally. I love them and will always be in their lives. And I will always try to be kind and courteous to you, you are the mother of my children for goodness sake. Looking back, I'd want no other woman to be the mother of my child,ren, regardless of who I am with. You will always be that person to me and to our children.


I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. If you and Silverbird don't get back together, there will be another woman who bears your children. Or 2 or 3 other women. 23 year olds want kids too. Women of almost any age, really. I just read a thread talking about a 43 year old who wants to have kids. So do you have such myopic vision that you can't foresee what you headed for and that statement doesn't make any sense? And that's not even to mention the ones who will trick you into it with a number oops babies.

You needed sex. You needed affection. You needed companionship. Okay, so you got your hands on what you needed. You're having your fun. But you can have all that with the woman you are married to if you will give her another chance. Your marriage didn't have to remain the same as it was. You two could have found a way to fix it. I know you didn't know how to fix it and felt your wife didn't even want to try take care of your needs, but she is willing now, and the two of you can start counseling to learn how to make your marriage better. It wasn't all her fault even though she thinks it was and you are clearly more than willing to allow her to take full blame. You were at fault also. You also should have some regrets. You also should be willing to give the marriage another chance. What you two experienced is really very typical, and that is the reason it will come back to haunt you. And, honestly, you are creating another situation that you also don't know how to handle, which is step family, which presents its own and unique sets of problems, so there's that too.

Otherwise, Silverbird was right that you walked out on your wife and children. Disclaiming that to say the TRIAL separation was her idea doesn't absolve you from blame because it's what you did if you don't try to make the TRIAL separation serve its purpose. You and she should be trying to work on things. You and she can fall in love again, and your marriage can be happy and fulfilling.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*



StarFires said:


> Words


Did you even read his post?

He's not interested. It's too late. It's over.

And he's not coming back.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Silverbird.*



MrSilverbird said:


> Order of events:
> 
> Trial separation originally suggested by Silverbird
> Separated for a few weeks, self realisation
> ...


How did you make separation permanent? Did you file in the courts? What?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Silverbird.*



MrSilverbird said:


> Order of events:
> 
> Trial separation originally suggested by Silverbird
> Separated for a few weeks, self realisation
> ...


How did you make separation permanent? Did you file in the courts? How did you do this?


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

*Re: Silverbird.*



toblerone said:


> Did you even read his post?
> 
> He's not interested. It's too late. It's over.
> 
> And he's not coming back.


Did you even read my post? No you didn't. Or you didn't understand it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Silverbird.*



MrSilverbird said:


> I disagree that it's disrespectful for me to state my side of the story on here. It's a marriage forum. We are separated now but it was our marriage, as in, two people, two sides of the story.


You can of course post here on TAM. But I suggest that you don't. The reason is that you have made it clear that to you, your marriage is over and you have moved on to a new relationship.

Anything that your wife does and says is no longer any of your business. Just like you feel that what you do now is none of her business. 

Your wife came here for support to help her accept that her marriage is over and move on. How can she move on if you keep interjecting your words and trying to influence those who support her?

How would you like it if she saw you talking to your affair partner and/or friends and she walked up and started telling everyone her side of the story? I'll bet you would be angry about that.

There are at least three sides to every marriage story, her side, his side and the truth. We know that each of you see 'the truth' through your own filters. We know that. It does not matter as she needs support.

You need to leave her alone and not stalk her online.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

*Re: Silverbird.*



StarFires said:


> Did you even read my post? No you didn't. Or you didn't understand it.


what about this makes you think "yea, this marriage has a chance!"



> I agreed to separate because I knew that if our marriage had any chance then I needed a breather to be able to stand back and see things from a distance. That's one way it could have gone. But it was too late for that anyway. The separation- being separated for even just a short while made me realise that I didn't want to be in the marriage at all anymore. It made me realise how much of myself I'd forgotten and left behind all these years. That's why I did that. I didn't and wouldn't have been able to just tell you to start with because I didn't know, or perhaps deep down I did but I needed to make sure. I needed that few weeks being apart. Then after that realisation, I was able to make the decision of making the separation permanent, only after having that time to think. I'm sorry but it just happened that way.


dude is not interested. he's checked out. it's over. and I don't even think he's coming back to this forum.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

*Re: Silverbird.*



toblerone said:


> what about this makes you think "yea, this marriage has a chance!"
> 
> 
> 
> dude is not interested. he's checked out. it's over. and I don't even think he's coming back to this forum.


IF this marriage has a chance, it will be when the young mistress tires of his crap.

That can be anywhere from 6 months to 2-3 years.

At that point, he'll get another shot at growing up.


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