# Why did you stay married



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Was over at buddy's place this weekend helping out with fixing his deck.

We were taking a break and having a few drinks when the subject infidelity came up.

I didn't even know that his wife had cheated. From the little bit he told me, it was brutal. I was pissed for him at what she had done.

He mentioned that the last few years had been especially tough for him. He wasn't sure about his future with her as he just couldn't get over what she had done.

I wanted to know - Why did you stay married? Why do you remain married with it causing you all this grief?

He thought for a moment and gave an interesting answer that I wonder if people that reconcile also subscribe to:
1) I like my house. I don't want to get out of it
2) I like my neighborhood. It's been a great place to raise kids. I'm not ready to leave it.
3) I like my neighbors. They are all awesome people and I don't want to leave that social group I have here.
4) I like the school system - it's one of the best in the state. I don't want to uproot my kids young life.
5) While I don't particularly care for my wife, I do get along with her as a co parenting couple. We do a fairly decent job raining the kids.

I questioned him further - don't your needs matter?
His answer, again thoughtful.
My needs are being met:
1) I get fulfillment from my kids
2) I have hobbies that don't include the wife that I enjoy immensely
3) I have no need for female companionship at this point in my life (which is understandable after hearing what she did to him)

What about showing your kids a happy, loving relationship
That one he agreed that there was a bit of failure. This was something he would have to address.
His kids are in their early teens and know something real bad happened and their mother had done something to hurt dad so bad that he had a bit of a personality change.
He hasn't talked with the kids about it yet - not yet ready to. The wife talked to them,but she didn't tell them what she had done. She explained it that she had done something very mean and her actions and choices had hurt dad very bad. I'll give her this much, She did want to tell them that she had cheated and hurt their father in a way that she couldn't fix it, but he didn't want that. He wants to be able to tell them what happened and how it affected him - he's just not ready yet.

By his own account and admission, he is happy with his lot in life.
He's not happy with his marriage, that's become a secondary item to him. The dissatisfaction, while painful, is tolerable for the time being (for how much longer is unknown - hence the whole point of hm not knowing how much more he can be with his wife).
Talking with him, he is (or at the very least does project) content, peaceful, and generally happy.

Has anyone that has been cheated on gone done this thought pattern while choosing to reconcile?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I don't see this as reconciling.
He is just staying in the marriage under his own terms. Sounds like he and his wife are just coparents living under the same roof, but not truly husband and wife.
To each his own. If he thinks this is the best road for him then so be it. My only concern is the kids. They know something is wrong and they are worried about their father. He should be up front and truthful with them if they are old enough to understand.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

snerg said:


> Has anyone that has been cheated on gone done this thought pattern while choosing to reconcile?


This is not reconciliation, it is simply biding time. Neither appears to have made any commitment to fixing the marriage. If they don't address it, once the kids are older, one of them will opt out. 

There is nothing wrong with staying for logistical reasons. Kids, finances, social groups and the like. But staying with no intent to address the marital issues, including the infidelity is simply delaying the inevitable. And as he has already admitted, his kids are seeing lifeless, emotionless relationship in their parents. Both unhappy just plodding along in life. 

For their own happiness and that of their children, they should make an effort to move forward in a positive manner on their own or with the assistance of a councilor.


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## ruffneckred (May 11, 2016)

I would worry about the example of what a marriage is being presented to the kids....

Another issue with being roommates is dating others. He doesn't have interest, what if she brings a date home? There was a murder when I first moved to this town, my boss had told me to look this guy up. Glad I had not yet done so, the guy was co-habituating with his wife and she brought a guy home. Temper got out of control, dead guy. Makes me gulp every time I think about it...


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

How long have they been in a sexless marriage? Probably why she stepped out. The marriage should have died a long time ago, so people are just doing their own thing until the kids turn 18 or praying the other spouse passes unexpectedly.

I ponder what percentage of marriages are like this? Terrifying how many people waste their one and only life.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Here's the issue to me.

I could not be satisfied with his lot in life.
His treed, corner lot in comfortable suburbia.

He must not be very sexed. Must be low-desire, LD.

As someone who at his age was high desire, high as in off the charts, I could not abide.
I could not wait.

Wait to wrap my arms around a women who loved me and treasured me.
Her in return, wrapping her arms around me, her legs around me, pinning me to her.

I have not the patience, nor the desire, nor the Will to do such.

I suspect that his 'low desire' was present before the infidelity occurred. 
She wasn't getting enough and she looked elsewhere.

This is so wrong, it is. No stinking excuse.
But it is so real, so tragically real.

If you have a HD wife, you must.
You must keep her flat-assed, on her back....wore out.

Just Sayin'

Saying very bluntly.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

He’ll stay until he finds someone that’s worth not staying, and then he’ll be gone.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

snerg said:


> Has anyone that has been cheated on gone done this thought pattern while choosing to reconcile?


Pretty much exactly the same. It sounds like his wife is trying to fix things, which is not what I experienced, so maybe your friend has a chance.

Being middle aged with teen kids is a really tough place to be. The responsibilities are huge. And we know teens are fragile in some ways. I was constantly thinking about the timing of a potential divorce, and not wanting to pull the rug out from under the kids while they were in all the chaos and emotional uncertainty that comes with being a teen.

And then there is the money. Divorce with teens looks financially ruinous. Thoughts of eventual retirement have started to pop up, usually with some anxiety because saving is difficult and the costs of college are looming. So thinking about divorce, losing assets, paying alimony maybe, and paying child support is a really scary thing. Making some sacrifices to stay married seems like a rational trade off.

Quality of Life is a big issue. One has worked decades to establish a decent lifestyle. A comfortable home in a neighborhood with good schools and with neighbors you are friends with. To think about losing all of that is tough. Move to a small apartment in a not so nice part of town? Lose your social life? Not have the money for hobbies or activities you enjoy? Again, a bit of sacrifice to stay married seems like there is some benefit.

If you're young with no real assets, no kids, and feeling you have many options, dumping a cheating spouse means getting rid of problems and gaining freedom. But when you're middle aged with kids etc, there are many negatives to divorce. It is natural to start balancing things against the downside.

Your friend's thoughts are not unusual or even illogical. Things may change once the kids leave the nest, where he no longer has so many positives keeping him in the marriage.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Thor said:


> Pretty much exactly the same. It sounds like his wife is trying to fix things, which is not what I experienced, so maybe your friend has a chance.
> 
> Being middle aged with teen kids is a really tough place to be. The responsibilities are huge. And we know teens are fragile in some ways. I was constantly thinking about the timing of a potential divorce, and not wanting to pull the rug out from under the kids while they were in all the chaos and emotional uncertainty that comes with being a teen.
> 
> ...


Ah, the “cheaper to keep ‘er” approach.

Blah.

Understandable, but still... blah.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> He’ll stay until he finds someone that’s worth not staying, and then he’ll be gone.


*IMHO, I feel rather certain that he will stay in the home until such time that either he has primary custody of the kids, until wifey forcibly extricates him from the home, or if not, until the kids all graduate and move away from home!

You’d have a hard time convincing me that he wasn’t in it strictly for the benefit of the kids!
*


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Doesnt desire a physical relationship with a woman? Reminds me of the time an X friend of mine (now married to my xwife) said to me. "You know, there comes a point in time that to a man a good bowel movement is as good as sex." I replied, "If I ever utter those words, please take me out!"

If he is willing to settle, thats his choice, would not be mine as all those things he mentioned are easy to replace, seriously, easy.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Nothing to me would be quite as painful as looking back, now in the winter of my life, and realize the path I chose and the relationships I had offered me so little joy.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Nope. I was the one who cheated and Dear Hubby was the man who stayed, but a) we told the kids straight up that I had been unfaithful and that it was an emotional affair online, not a physical affair, and that it was wrong, and that I ended it and b) WE were going to work on our marriage together and learn to do a better job. Our goal was to show the kids that being honest was important, that they were safe being honest, and that if you really screw up you can come back from it if you stop doing the wrong and start doig the right!

I think his mindset was that we made a commitment to each other, and that I broke my side but he was willing to honor his side if I returned to honoring mine and did the work to prove it. But he never settled. It was either "do the work so we are in a loving marriage, or we're done." He was the kind of guy who had a door open or a door closed...so either it was open and we were actively working on loving each other, or it was closed and we were not together. Of course, I didn't rake him over the coals as some folks do when they are unfaithful, and it didn't go on for years, etc. and those things do have a bearing on someone's ability to forgive, don't you think?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ruffneckred said:


> I would worry about the example of what a marriage is being presented to the kids....
> 
> Another issue with being roommates is dating others. He doesn't have interest, what if she brings a date home? There was a murder when I first moved to this town, my boss had told me to look this guy up. Glad I had not yet done so, the guy was co-habituating with his wife and she brought a guy home. Temper got out of control, dead guy. Makes me gulp every time I think about it...


You have got to be so stupid you forget to breath or be suicidal to follow a woman into her husband's home.

Probably just cleaned up the gene pool a bit.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Ok @snerg

What actually happened to him?

It will be hard to comprehend what choices he is making when we don't know.

There is cheating and then there is CHEATING!!!

What happened?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

snerg said:


> Was over at buddy's place this weekend helping out with fixing his deck.
> 
> We were taking a break and having a few drinks when the subject infidelity came up.
> 
> I didn't even know that his wife had cheated. From the little bit he told me, it was brutal. I was pissed for him at what she had done.





snerg said:


> I questioned him further - don't your needs matter?
> His answer, again thoughtful.
> My needs are being met:
> 1) I get fulfillment from my kids
> ...


Kinda wondering what he caught her in that so completely turned him off to the idea of desiring female companionship.

Affair with a friend, boss, or co-worker? (Guessing it wasn’t a neighbor.)

Banging randos from Tinder or Ash Mad?

I mean... friends and hobbies are great, but damn.

Just wondering — is she a nurse or teacher?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Why stay?

Denial, in many forms, but mostly of self. I think you can place almost any reason beneath that sentence and it would be true.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Not everybody has to have another person in their life. I don't. I'd be VERY happy living alone (now that DD27 has moved on with her life). I don't like to talk much, I'm an introvert, I hate sex, there are only a few things in my life I like to do (read, puzzles, garden, ocean), and I'd be quite content doing that. Alone.

If my H were to take sex off the table at this point, I'd be just fine staying married to him because all the other things are what I care about. It sounds like that's what your friend is saying - his other stuff is more important to him than being in a relationship. I get it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

snerg said:


> Was over at buddy's place this weekend helping out with fixing his deck.
> 
> We were taking a break and having a few drinks when the subject infidelity came up.
> 
> ...


My wife didn't cheat on my, but I was in a sex starved marriage. I can echo many of those same reasons for staying in the marriage, plus another reason.

Commitment.

Instead of giving, up, I worked at changing myself and seeing if the marriage could be salvaged.

Part of it is that even if I divorced my wife, I would love her until the day I died, if for no other reason than her blessing me with the children we had. I could hate her, and fall in love with another woman, but she would always be the mother of my children and the woman with whom I shared a lot of joy. I felt that it was worth a lot to try to save the marriage in addition to the convenience factor your friend described.

As they say the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Kinda wondering what he caught her in that so completely turned him off to the idea of desiring female companionship.
> 
> Affair with a friend, boss, or co-worker? (Guessing it wasn’t a neighbor.)
> 
> ...



It was with a close family friend. He and his wife had been friends with the guy for many years.
He hasn't told me many details (which, come to think of it, might be an issue. He's not talking to anyone about this that I'm aware of)- the one he shared with me was that he found out about the affair by reading her e-mail she left open by accident one day. The e-mail was thanking him (the friend) for the servicing he gave her the last time they were together, which was his (my buddy's) birthday (BRUTAL).

I'm not 100% certain when this happened. I'm not 100% certain when DD occurred. I would guess it was roughly a year ago (just by their dynamic changing). However, after being on TAM for a while, you learn that these relationships could be years old.

As far as I knew, they were the shmoopy couple that every one always rolled their eyes because they were always lovey-dove with each other. They "appeared" to be a very happy couple.

I couldn't fathom living like he is.
On that token,my buddy is a slow mover. Everything has to get lined up the way he needs it and then he makes his decisions. This could also be a case of him slowly getting all his ducks in a row before he does something. That's not outside the realm of possibilities.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I bet a lack of sex is a factor in their marriage, not a lack of love.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Is he still sleeping with her? Is she aware this is a transactional marriage?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

snerg said:


> I couldn't fathom living like he is.
> On that token,my buddy is a slow mover. Everything has to get lined up the way he needs it and then he makes his decisions. This could also be a case of him slowly getting all his ducks in a row before he does something. That's not outside the realm of possibilities.


For me, I think it was a bit of the Boiled Frog syndrome. It didn't seem _too_ terrible at the time. Now looking back as a single person with my own home, dating a good woman, and seeing how my kids are doing just fine, it is difficult to understand how I put up with so much for so long.

I think there are some valid concerns and some valid trade-offs to be considered, as I posted earlier. With age we learn that perfection is not possible. There is always some downside. Leaving should be done for the sake of leaving the bad relationship, but a lot of people seem to fear they won't find a good relationship with someone else. In the moment it seems like a valid concern, but it is a way to avoid making the decision the marriage is not acceptable and not fixable. Still, the new partners we find are all going to have their own issues, and our relationships with them will have problems. If we stay in the marriage we have all the good stuff which we stand to lose if we leave. If we leave, we may just jump into another bad relationship, gaining nothing and losing a lot.

Now that my kids are all out of the house, I cannot imagine ever staying if I was cheated on by a new partner. It's like being 20 yrs old again from the standpoint of nothing much to lose by leaving.

We see a lot of people here trying to get every detail figured out before leaving. Trying to find the right slice of time to start the D process which won't affect the kids as badly, trying to figure out the best financial timing, etc etc. Your friend may be doing that. And, if his W is apparently making an effort to recover the marriage, he may be feeling some guilt in thinking about leaving. He doesn't want to be the one who harms the kids with a divorce. Yeah, faulty logic but a lot of people think like that.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

snerg said:


> It was with a close family friend. He and his wife had been friends with the guy for many years.
> He hasn't told me many details (which, come to think of it, might be an issue. He's not talking to anyone about this that I'm aware of)- the one he shared with me was that he found out about the affair by reading her e-mail she left open by accident one day. The e-mail was thanking him (the friend) for the servicing he gave her the last time they were together, which was his (my buddy's) birthday (BRUTAL).
> 
> I'm not 100% certain when this happened. I'm not 100% certain when DD occurred. I would guess it was roughly a year ago (just by their dynamic changing). However, after being on TAM for a while, you learn that these relationships could be years old.
> ...


Assuming that OM was/is married, did he expose to OMW?

And hopefully OM has since been removed from his life ...?


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Thor said:


> For me, I think it was a bit of the Boiled Frog syndrome. It didn't seem _too_ terrible at the time. Now looking back as a single person with my own home, dating a good woman, and seeing how my kids are doing just fine, it is difficult to understand how I put up with so much for so long.
> 
> I think there are some valid concerns and some valid trade-offs to be considered, as I posted earlier. With age we learn that perfection is not possible. There is always some downside. Leaving should be done for the sake of leaving the bad relationship, but a lot of people seem to fear they won't find a good relationship with someone else. In the moment it seems like a valid concern, but it is a way to avoid making the decision the marriage is not acceptable and not fixable. Still, the new partners we find are all going to have their own issues, and our relationships with them will have problems. If we stay in the marriage we have all the good stuff which we stand to lose if we leave.
> 
> ...



The more I reread this, the more I agree that you are probably spot on with his mind set


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Assuming that OM was/is married, did he expose to OMW?
> 
> And hopefully OM has since been removed from his life ...?


OM is gone.

I did ask about OM's wife.

He said she knew he was a POS. Didn't realize he would go so far as to ruin a family.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

LosingHim said:


> Is he still sleeping with her? Is she aware this is a transactional marriage?


Got a link to an explanation of transactional marriage? I'd like to understand a bit more. Thanks.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> Got a link to an explanation of transactional marriage? I'd like to understand a bit more. Thanks.


Sounds like a marriage devoid of any meaningful gestures of love, romance, etc.

Perfunctory at best.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Got a link to an explanation of transactional marriage? I'd like to understand a bit more. Thanks.


Basically just meant was she aware that it’s a marriage of convenience and until they raised the kids. Maybe transactional wasn’t the right word.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

LosingHim said:


> Basically just meant was she aware that it’s a marriage of convenience and until they raised the kids. Maybe transactional wasn’t the right word.


Thanks. I intended no criticism. I just "assumed" there was something new and interesting out there on the inter webs.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> Is he still sleeping with her? Is she aware this is a transactional marriage?


 Who cares what she's aware of?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Would he have left earlier if they didn't have kids?

Your friend may have other male friends who did divorce and they got their throats cut in family court.

If the income ratio is over 67 / 33 % and they have two or more kids.... he is beyond screwed.

He may just want to "keep his money"

But it is a morbid way to live.....


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

snerg said:


> Was over at buddy's place this weekend helping out with fixing his deck.
> 
> We were taking a break and having a few drinks when the subject infidelity came up.
> 
> ...


I really don't get why guys like these don't open their marriages, unless it is for religious reasons. I mean he is married to his wife basically for convenience. I also wonder what these guys think in their 60s. Seems like a waste, he could have just as nice a house with someone else.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> As they say the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.


If you think you will only end up with the devil no wonder you stay. I have come to the conclusion that many people who stays do so because they have no hope to do better. Sad.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

snerg said:


> It was with a close family friend. He and his wife had been friends with the guy for many years.
> He hasn't told me many details (which, come to think of it, might be an issue. He's not talking to anyone about this that I'm aware of)- the one he shared with me was that he found out about the affair by reading her e-mail she left open by accident one day. The e-mail was thanking him (the friend) for the servicing he gave her the last time they were together, which was his (my buddy's) birthday (BRUTAL).
> 
> I'm not 100% certain when this happened. I'm not 100% certain when DD occurred. I would guess it was roughly a year ago (just by their dynamic changing). However, after being on TAM for a while, you learn that these relationships could be years old.
> ...


I say this all the time but if you have friends that are cheaters, dump them. They are dangerous. I wouldn't stay friends with rapists either. The principle is the same. People of low moral character only bring you trouble.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I see this as him being willing to eat the sh!t sandwich she served him until such time as his kids are grown and out. If she hasn't fixed the situation by then, he will likely leave. It also gives him plenty of time to get ducks in a row, get some legal advice, ensure assets are safeguarded etc. One does not know how bad the affair was, but it has profoundly affected him. One hopes he finds happiness in the other areas of his life.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I don't think this is as unusual as you might think.

Many stay together even though the marriage is dead.

Codepency, complacency, unwillingness to let go even though there's nothing, etc.

It's his life to do as he pleases with.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Taxman said:


> I see this as him being willing to eat the sh!t sandwich she served him until such time as his kids are grown and out. If she hasn't fixed the situation by then, he will likely leave. It also gives him plenty of time to get ducks in a row, get some legal advice, ensure assets are safeguarded etc. One does not know how bad the affair was, but it has profoundly affected him. One hopes he finds happiness in the other areas of his life.


The long game.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

snerg said:


> Was over at buddy's place this weekend helping out with fixing his deck.
> 
> We were taking a break and having a few drinks when the subject infidelity came up.
> 
> ...


I haven't read any of the other posts on this thread, I am just going off of this post. 

I'll be honest, I kind of see this as selfishness and shortsightedness and materialism and complacency on his part. 

I don't see this as reconciliation at all. I see this as just submitting to maltreatment so he doesn't have to hire a realitor to market the house. 

It's his prerogative if he wants to lay down and just live with it so he doesn't have to do any heavy lifting to either fix the marriage or move on with a new, divorced life. 

I do not see this as honorable or admirable at all. I see this as poor role modeling for the kids that will not be healthy or positive for them at all as they develop and look to future relationships themselves.

And even though the wife cheated, this is probably a dungeon and torture chamber for her to remain in as well. 

she is either still involved in the affair which is also terrible role modeling for the children and making her an adulteress in the eyes of all who know about it and herself. And she is living with a man who likely views her as dog poop in the 
treads of her shoes and I imagine he probably treats her as such. 

And I think he is also simply being lazy and shortsighted. Where is there a law that says he has to leave the school system? Why would he even need to leave the house really? If he loves the house and the neighbors and the school system so much, he could buy his wife out the house and continue to stay there? She is probably so unhappy there that she would be wiling to do that. Has he even talked to her about it?

For that matter has he even talked to an attorney to see what his actual rights and responsibilities would be in a divorce? Or is he just making excuses and assumptions?

I'm not condoning her affair, but his behavior and attitude after the affair is pathetic. 

Staying in the house is not reconciliation. Not divorcing does not = being an actual married couple. 

People living under one roof does not make the building a home or the people living in it a family.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Who cares what she's aware of?


She’s still a human being. She did a horrible, awful thing. She should still get to be aware of what her life is. If she’s working to fix the marriage, under the assumption that he is too, all while playing the long game if sticking around for a certain amount of time and 5 years from now he leaves and all that comes out, I think that’s wrong. 

I understand cheaters are scum and they don’t deserve much of anything........but if they’ve decided to “reconcile” (which is NOT what this is) then he shouldn’t string her along with false hope and lies either.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

LosingHim said:


> She’s still a human being. She did a horrible, awful thing. She should still get to be aware of what her life is. If she’s working to fix the marriage, under the assumption that he is too, all while playing the long game if sticking around for a certain amount of time and 5 years from now he leaves and all that comes out, I think that’s wrong.
> 
> I understand cheaters are scum and they don’t deserve much of anything........but if they’ve decided to “reconcile” (which is NOT what this is) then he shouldn’t string her along with false hope and lies either.


She has the option to file or leave same as him. Nothing stopping her


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

GuyInColorado said:


> people are just doing their own thing until the kids turn 18 or praying the other spouse passes unexpectedly.





Thor said:


> Being middle aged with teen kids is a really tough place to be. The responsibilities are huge. And we know teens are fragile in some ways. I was constantly thinking about the timing of a potential divorce, and not wanting to pull the rug out from under the kids while they were in all the chaos and emotional uncertainty that comes with being a teen.





Chuck71 said:


> If the income ratio is over 67 / 33 % and they have two or more kids.... he is beyond screwed.


All of the above. That's why I stayed. Although, I didn't pray for her to die. But, she did, not so unexpectedly. She underwent two liver transplants.

The fragile aspect of our teen boys was paramount in my decision. This woman would have phucked anything that walked on 2 legs or 4. I didn't want my boys subjected to the POSOM parade.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

After reading these threads over and over I have come to one realization. You hear all the time that the BS has to eat a **** sandwich, but most of the time the WS -- IS the **** sandwich.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

sokillme said:


> After reading these threads over and over I have come to one realization. You hear all the time that the BS has to eat a **** sandwich, but most of the time the WS -- IS the **** sandwich.


Anyone can f u up in life, including any loved ones, not just spouses (parents, kids, friends etc).....hell even oneself can, just sayin...

Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I'll be honest, I kind of see this as selfishness and shortsightedness and materialism and complacency on his part.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I'm not condoning her affair, but his behavior and attitude after the affair is pathetic.


Wow! So, this is what it means to be hung in the court of public opinion.

Maybe he just likes to see his kids every day.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> She has the option to file or leave same as him. Nothing stopping her


Of course she can. But I’m saying if he’s pretending to reconcile, while playing the long game and she knows nothing about it - I don’t agree with that.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Turn about is fair play. 

Like most she probably lied, hid what she was doing for awhile. No sympathy here


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LosingHim said:


> Of course she can. But I’m saying if he’s pretending to reconcile, while playing the long game and she knows nothing about it - I don’t agree with that.


His revenge affair is not to cheat..... but to play the long game as best he can to leave her, high n dry...

Could be.... who knows. But if he did..... I would support this. He didn't start this but

he sure would aim to end it.

Every one is accountable for their actions.....the generation before me understood this clearly.

My generation has this wild concept of second chances for deal breakers..... eh?

The current.... just wants to hit re-set and start the game over. Nice analogy but emotions..... just....

don't.........work that way. I would say the exact thing if the man cheated on his wife.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Anyone can f u up in life, including any loved ones, not just spouses (parents, kids, friends etc).....hell even oneself can, just sayin...
> 
> Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


Nah there are cheaters and non-cheaters. (Not talking about the drunken one night stand kind.) There are some that have it in them to repeatedly lie and live a double life and live with the guilt (if there is guilt), and some it would be internal agony so they wouldn't even think of doing that. Society would be better off if we all got that, and then basically relationally quarantine the ones who can do something like that. At least until the go through intense therapy.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Chuck71 said:


> His revenge affair is not to cheat..... but to play the long game as best he can to leave her, high n dry...
> 
> Could be.... who knows. But if he did..... I would support this. He didn't start this but
> 
> ...


Yeah when you hurt your spouse more then their worst enemy, when they let you into the castle so to speak and you burned it down from the inside I am not sure how much loyalty and honesty you can expect.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> Of course she can. But I’m saying if he’s pretending to reconcile, while playing the long game and she knows nothing about it - I don’t agree with that.


LH you are making assumptions here don't you think

How would you or I know if he said to her

: I'm just here for my children and you can go fvcck yourself and the entire OSU football team for all I give a shytt.

Just sayin

55


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

just got it 55 said:


> LH you are making assumptions here don't you think
> 
> How would you or I know if he said to her
> 
> ...


All assumptions of course. I asked if she knew and there was no answer.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

snerg said:


> Was over at buddy's place this weekend helping out with fixing his deck.
> 
> We were taking a break and having a few drinks when the subject infidelity came up.
> 
> ...



Yes, I think it is a choice, you have a waiting period to weigh up all the pros and cons. If the pros outweigh the cons in staying, you stay though it may not be the best in terms of the relationship but taking into consideration all the other factors, it is still more desirable than leaving. If the other factors mean less or have less weightage then it is time to leave. We make these kinds of decisions all the time, emotions and acting on emotions only gets you so far, you have to use some rationality also.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

LosingHim said:


> All assumptions of course. I asked if she knew and there was no answer.


I can understand the no answer. After all, when a friend drops this bomb on you, one or the last questions on your mind is "and how does your cheating wife feel about what you are doing?"


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

TDSC60 said:


> I can understand the no answer. After all, when a friend drops this bomb on you, one or the last questions on your mind is "and how does your cheating wife feel about what you are doing?"


I was just curious is all. He appears to be staying for all things that don’t involve HER. I just wondered if he had spoken the words “Hey, I’m staying – but for nothing that has to do with YOU” or if he was pretending to reconcile SO he didn’t lose those things. Or even an option C – he told her he would try but made no guarantees. I think a lot of people stay for reasons other than “love” – I just hope they’re honest with their partners if that’s the case. Two instances of lying or hiding things don’t make it right. I stayed for a lot of reasons – my house, my kids, my dogs, the fact that after 12 years it’s comfortable, fear, money……….but I also stayed because like an idiot I love the hell out of him and I hope some day things get better. But he knows all that. I never hid it. I’ve told him many times that I’m hoping for the best but I can’t guarantee anything. That’s all I was wondering.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Yeah when you hurt your spouse more then their worst enemy, when they let you into the castle so to speak and you burned it down from the inside I am not sure how much loyalty and honesty you can expect.


Dr. David Schnarch (Passionate Marriage), has an interesting perspective on this. He talks about "marital sadism" where one partner loves to torture their partner emotionally. I have witnessed this and believe it to be true. What makes it truly ugly is that the spouse usually knows from years of living with you all your "hot buttons." This allows them to know your deepest fears, where & when you are the weakest and then attack in a way that is abusive.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> Dr. David Schnarch (Passionate Marriage), has an interesting perspective on this. He talks about "marital sadism" where one partner loves to torture their partner emotionally. I have witnessed this and believe it to be true. What makes it truly ugly is that the spouse usually knows from years of living with you all your "hot buttons." This allows them to know your deepest fears, where & when you are the weakest and then attack in a way that is abusive.


You'd be amazed at how many do this. Pop taught me as a teen to share a couple "deep dark" secrets

with your LTR or spouse. In my case, I did, and I told XW and post-D g/f that mom should not

ever know this. Truth was.... mom already knew. XW held this over my head until I said, "tell her if you want"

She did........ that was a HUGE brick placed on our Wall. Post D g/f did same right in midst of a break-up

and her moving out. Showed me there was no hope. The best way to tell the pedigree of your 

mate is to give them the opportunity to kick you when you are down. If they do.... it's clearly over.

You don't have to be "down" just appear as so......


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I can think of only one, no two women I was interested in, that have not hurt me in that way. I think sometimes we forget the many women look for support from other women. Secrets are shared. Unspoken pacts are made. Those we believe haven't talked, I think, are simply better at hiding the fact, because they have better support.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Nah there are cheaters and non-cheaters. (Not talking about the drunken one night stand kind.) There are some that have it in them to repeatedly lie and live a double life and live with the guilt (if there is guilt), and some it would be internal agony so they wouldn't even think of doing that.


I agree with the above but would like to express it in a different way. I wouldn’t cheat not because I’m a straight arrow upstanding guy. I wouldn’t cheat because I know myself well enough to realize that it wouldn’t be fun for me. For me sneaking around is a big negative. 

If I were the type of person where sneaking around added spice then I might cheat. 



________________________________________


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

I?ll never understand why a man would stay with a cheating woman. Maybe it?s my upbringing, Italian family, women are honored and expected to be a certain way. 

If my wife even just danced or flirted with another man one time I?d probably leave her. She knows it, too. You?ve got to have respect from your wife. Maybe that?s what some men lack, self respect.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> All assumptions of course. I asked if she knew and there was no answer.


Sorry LH

I missed that

55


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

snerg said:


> Was over at buddy's place this weekend helping out with fixing his deck.
> 
> We were taking a break and having a few drinks when the subject infidelity came up.
> 
> ...


Agree with what some other posters have said about there being a far different calculation when one is middle aged, settled, and has kids. Also agree that this is a biding time situation until the kids are grown, at which point OP's friend can decide what to do with some factors changed. When the BS has "low drive", that is also a huge factor in whether he will precipitate an upheaval. Life is manageable, not perfect. The OP never elaborated on whether his friend still sleeps with the WW, even duty sex.

There are MAJOR downsides to changing this status quo. Some may disagree with this, but not wanting to be seen as the "bad guy" that pulled the plug is chief among them. Even though I see the other argument that a BS parent should model consequences of infidelity for their kids, there are still plenty of studies that show that the kids suffer from the divorce regardless. Not to mention the BS's desire to actually live with his/her own children EVERY DAY, not just part time per custody arrangements.

I am in a similar position to OP's friend. I am a BS five years post D-day. Supposedly it was just a one-month EA but I suspected PA. My WH never did any heavy lifting and all got rugswept. We have a tween son. I have VAR'ed off and on for almost two years. ZERO evidence of anything. NOTHING. I admit to wanting to find something to go on so I wouldn't be the bad guy for pulling the plug. There's NOTHING. But have I gotten past the incident? And contemplating initiating a divorce in which I wouldn't see my son every day is absolutely a nonstarter. I would only do so if I had ironclad evidence of an affair that I could use to argue for at least primary custody. Another issue is that my H can have a temper, bordering on verbal/emotional abuse, at times. I would never allow my son to be exposed to that in a household without me there. Yet I would not be able to "prove" such behavior in a divorce either, allowing for full custody.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I can pretty much relate to this. And Gus is right. When the right person comes along gone!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LosingHim said:


> She’s still a human being. She did a horrible, awful thing. She should still get to be aware of what her life is. If she’s working to fix the marriage, under the assumption that he is too, all while playing the long game if sticking around for a certain amount of time and 5 years from now he leaves and all that comes out, I think that’s wrong.
> 
> I understand cheaters are scum and they don’t deserve much of anything........but if they’ve decided to “reconcile” (which is NOT what this is) then he shouldn’t string her along with false hope and lies either.


I’m of two minds on this.

On principal, I have to agree.

Going beyond that, though, things aren’t really equal here. Men get absolutely _destroyed_ in divorce, and @snerg’s buddy is no doubt aware of this.

It doesn’t matter that his wife cheated — not in court, anyway. Given the income disparity, he’d be over a barrel with not only child support but alimoney as well. Oh, and that’s _after_ she’s been awarded the house.

Hell, she could make MORE than him and he’d _still_ get boned.

His home could’ve been in his family for the past 5 generations AND he could’ve owned it for 10 years prior to even meeting her... and he’d _still_ probably lose it.

So I get it.

Can’t say I really approve, but I get it.


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

totalfive21 said:


> Agree with what some other posters have said about there being a far different calculation when one is middle aged, settled, and has kids. Also agree that this is a biding time situation until the kids are grown, at which point OP's friend can decide what to do with some factors changed. When the BS has "low drive", that is also a huge factor in whether he will precipitate an upheaval. Life is manageable, not perfect. The OP never elaborated on whether his friend still sleeps with the WW, even duty sex.
> 
> There are MAJOR downsides to changing this status quo. Some may disagree with this, but not wanting to be seen as the "bad guy" that pulled the plug is chief among them. Even though I see the other argument that a BS parent should model consequences of infidelity for their kids, there are still plenty of studies that show that the kids suffer from the divorce regardless. Not to mention the BS's desire to actually live with his/her own children EVERY DAY, not just part time per custody arrangements.
> 
> I am in a similar position to OP's friend. I am a BS five years post D-day. Supposedly it was just a one-month EA but I suspected PA. My WH never did any heavy lifting and all got rugswept. We have a tween son. I have VAR'ed off and on for almost two years. ZERO evidence of anything. NOTHING. I admit to wanting to find something to go on so I wouldn't be the bad guy for pulling the plug.



I’m curious about this. Do you think you would be the bad guy, pulling the plug?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

veganmermaid said:


> I’m curious about this. Do you think you would be the bad guy, pulling the plug?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Personally, I know I'm not the one that introduced the instability into the marriage. At D-day I was so emotional and desperate I couldn't make a rational decision. Did the pick me dance. Then we were "reconciled".

Five years on, it's not so easy to blow up my son's world when I have no evidence of further marital impropriety. I also allowed this to get rugswept with my husband, maybe because I was so focused on VARing to come up with evidence -- part of my plan to make a break.


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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

As a teenager that grew up in the midst of “ marriage of convenience”...null and void of any love or affection, only contempt, it was pure hell.

It shaped the way I felt about love and marriage. A lot of my decisions regarding my own marriage derived from living in this mess.

They were my role models and I learned that “ marriage was supposed to be like that”....you stayed through thick and thin because you are a 
“loyal” spouse....it was all I knew....I married young.

I have subjected my own kids to things they never should have been witness to....they didn’t deserve that....I should have protected them from that.

Now I am older and hopefully wiser and far more educated as to the acceptable way a wife should be treated by her husband......taken me many years to get to this point though.

Staying for the material things in life like the OP’s friend is should never outweigh what is best for your children.....their futures can be scarred by this.


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

totalfive21 said:


> Personally, I know I'm not the one that introduced the instability into the marriage. At D-day I was so emotional and desperate I couldn't make a rational decision. Did the pick me dance. Then we were "reconciled".
> 
> 
> 
> Five years on, it's not so easy to blow up my son's world when I have no evidence of further marital impropriety. I also allowed this to get rugswept with my husband, maybe because I was so focused on VARing to come up with evidence -- part of my plan to make a break.




I’m sorry to hear this; you’ve been through a lot.

For what it’s worth, you’re allowed to change your mind after time has cleared your vision, even if it is years later. It’s not failure to assess and see that, yep, the infidelity and aftermath killed the love.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> I’m of two minds on this.
> 
> On principal, I have to agree.
> 
> ...


This was the case with me, divorce would have been total 100 percent loss on my side as I make 3.5 times her salary, and included me paying things like effing lifetime alimony and crap like that, wtf is that??? Anyways, Is not the reason why I decided to R but it was a huge N total disappointment after being cheated on, it was like another bat to the face.... Unreal

Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

CantBelieveThis said:


> This was the case with me, divorce would have been total 100 percent loss on my side as I make 3.5 times her salary, and included me paying things like effing lifetime alimony and crap like that, wtf is that??? Anyways, Is not the reason why I decided to R but it was a huge N total disappointment after being cheated on, it was like another bat to the face.... Unreal
> 
> Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


How did things turn out afterwards? Your story is why I do not ever think I will marry again.

I would like a child, not a wife. Odd place I am huh...


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## Trep (Nov 4, 2017)

Wasn't married but was a 3 year LTR.

Call me an *******, but I just stuck around for the sex (best I've had by far) while I emotionally detached after I found out she was cheating.

The sad part is, the more aloof and distant I got, the more interested she seemed in keeping me around. I don't understand people.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> How did things turn out afterwards? Your story is why I do not ever think I will marry again.
> 
> I would like a child, not a wife. Odd place I am huh...


I wouldn't marry again either had I ended up divorced.... Dont blame u for that. Things are very good between W and I, we are 4.5 years out from D-day and she has been great, I rarely have setbacks anymore so I think we will make it, and am mostly recovered, not 100% as there is no such thing from infidelity betrayal. 
Our 20th wedding anniversary is coming up, not sure how much glorious to take that, am still on the fence about making anything fancy. 

Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> I’m of two minds on this.
> 
> On principal, I have to agree.
> 
> ...


I wonder how common it is. It makes sense to bide your time until the time is right to divorce in some cases for both BHs and BWs. Some wait for the economics to be right, for the kids to be grown, etc.. 

I believe there was a case discussed here but I'm not sure. The poster talked about an uncle who did this. His wife had an affair and then wanted to R - even got their minister involved. The BH pretended to R but was really waiting for his youngest kids to turn 18 I believe and then divorced his wife and moved on to another woman. Was that fair? No. But I can't say I feel sorry for his wife. Now she knows first hand that deception sucks. Lesson learned.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I can only answer for me

I had an affair...two years later he had a revenge affair

Why did we stay together?

Because we truly love each each other...I am not sure any other answer is applicable in our situation

and since it has been 35 years since my affair...and we are happier than we have ever been...I think it was the right decision. It really depends on how hard you want to fight for the relationship. We have fought HARD.....and all the hard work...has paid off for us.

Is it the right answer for everyone? no

Is it the right answer for some? maybe

Was it the right answer for us? yes...yes it was


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