# Am I wrong to say no to WS hooking up with old GF



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

My WS got in contact with an old GF via FB after she started her A in July 2011. There was no contact prior to this for over 30 years. They partied in HS and went to comestology school together. Last summer my WS contacted her. They tried to meet but could not settle on a date as they each had excuses. i followed this on FB. Then my WS announces that they were meeting a few weeks ago. She had said that they would meet in town (I had no problem at the time). Then they decided to meet halfway (her GF lives back in my WS hometown). They met at a tavern and had a good time. Now my WS texts with her friend quite a bit. I blew up on Firday night about it because I am tracking her phone and saw all the texts but my WS deleted them all. My WS told me that I can't stop her from seeing her. We had a nasty agruement. We did make up late Friday night and had a decent weekend.

Last week my WS was telling me about her GF's husband (on FB she does not show that she is married), how he ended up in the hospital and his elderly father broke a bone helping him, etc. I told my WS that I do not want to hear about it. Why do you know so much about someone you ignored for 30 years.

Now last night she texted back and forth for 1 1/2 hours with this GF. 

I called my BIL and he says this is not good. This was a girl his sister partied with back in the day. Others on TAM have sent me PM's saying this is not good.

I sent my WS a text a few minutes ago asking her to end all contact with her. That after 30 years she can afford to cut it off. I told her I am not comfortable with it and that she needs to end it now.

My WS is at work and will get the message in about an hour (that is when she will check her phone). I know she will be mad about it but I do not have a good feeling about this relationship. My WS told me that I am too paranoid on Friday. I told her that I was never like this and that I do not like the person I have become and I said you are the only one to blame for this. My WS has local friends that I would not mind her seeing or getting to know better. We have mutual friends from our dealing with antiques and my wife has always said she would like to do more with these GF's and some have called her to do things but my WS always has an excuse, some legit others not so legit not to go out with them.

I have fears. They will talk about old BF's, etc.

And my gut is telling me this is not good and I feel very anxious about it. I have not felt like this in the past.

Am I over reacting? Am I being too controlling?


----------



## me2pointoh (Jan 31, 2012)

I think a repentant ws will bend over backward to make a bs feel safe. Period.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

No, you're not wrong, but be sure to communicate this to her in a way that is not threatening to her. Tell her that her deleting the texts exacerbates your problems w/ trusting her. Transparency in this situation is a must, and her behavior certainly isn't transparent. If she really wants to salvage the relationship, she has to understand that.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

IMHO marriage has to be based on honesty and respect. I do not think you are controlling - you are stating the truth that her contact with an old GF is making you uncomfortable. Since her first contact with this old GF was when she started her affair, then the idea of your wife talking to her again has to be a trigger.

If she is brushing you off or telling you that you are controlling, maybe your R is not going as good as you thought it was. Maybe she is thinking that she has played the remorseful wife long enough and it is time to test a few boundaries again.

Her past behavior and your desire to R has made you the man you are today. She should accept this. If not - well - what's left for you to do?


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Thorburn, maybe I'm missing something, but is this old GF an enabler of your W's affair? Or is this unrelated to that - and you just don't like her as an influence on your W?


----------



## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Well if she got a hold of this friend around the same time she was having her affair, wouldn't this be a trigger for you? I think you are reacting from a place of exasperation and unfortunately, it has now become a test of her priorities, which of course, she is failing.

Why can't this friend have dinner with both of you? My best friend died when I was in my early 20s----I met up with his widow years later and she drove out to our city to have drinks and a visit and meet my husband. I had not seen her in over a decade. It was really great to reconnect with her.

My Suggestion? If this friend means so much, let her come out to your house and have dinner and drinks with both of you.

You are certainly not wrong to be upset by her texting and meeting up with someone you don't know. Double points if she was communicating with her AP through text and FB.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

*I called my BIL and he says this is not good. This was a girl his sister partied with back in the day. *

If I remember correctly, your BIL has been 100% correct at predicting his sister's behavior in the past.

You would do well to listen to him now.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

There is no reason, none whatsoever, for her to delete the texts. You know this Thorburn.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> Thorburn, maybe I'm missing something, but is this old GF an enabler of your W's affair? Or is this unrelated to that - and you just don't like her as an influence on your W?


Not an enabler. At least not that I know. My wife got in contact with her in July 2011 via FB, after she started the A. I still have all the messages between them. They tried to hook up a few times but never happened. My wife wanted her to come to our town and go out with the both of us. Then they decided to meet in March and they did. An hour from home about mid point from each other's homes and they met at a bar. I told my wife then I did not like it. I said why not include me and she said I would have been bored.

My wife's oldest brother who I called today said this is not a good thing. He said all they did in HS was party. And it has been over 30 years since they have been in contact. So I do not know what the big deal is. My wife can go another 30 years and not see her. I do not like it. Her GF's FB page does not even show she is married.


----------



## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

I think "go with your gut instinct." I bet she has no bad intentions and maybe just needs a bit to realize she needs to not play with fire.


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Tell her to do whatever she wishes with her friend. Then tell her you need some time alone to collect your thoughts and give her the number where she can reach you if need be. Make your away destination Reno Nev.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thorburn, your gut didn't fail once when you suspected your wife was having multiple affairs last year. If your gut is telling you this is a bad situation brewing, then act.

I have followed your threads and talked to you via PM. All I can say is, your wife has not changed one iota. Not one. 

She never fully addressed her issues in her first botched go 'round with therapy, and from what you have told me she is stalling on getting to a counselor who will actually force her to deal with her issues and EXTREME lack of boundaries. 

She talks a good game, tells you how sorry she is and how she has changed, gives you gallons of corocodile tears whenever you confront her, but her actions and deeds do not show it. Now here she goes again, acting out in the same way she was six months ago, completely without any sense of personal responsibility or boundaries. She hooked up with this old GF as a way, once again, to revisit the carefree days of her youth -- in much the same way she did with her younger lover last year.

The fact that she knew you were uncomfortable with her texting the old GF, and then to actually do it for an hour or so while you were in the same room?!! WTF??? :wtf: I can't believe her phone didn't end up taking a bath in the toilet. 

This is bad T. Really, really bad. At some point you need to lay the law down with her. She either ditches the friend or you need to send her packing. 

Your boys are grown so you have no little ones to worry about. Your boys know the score, know your wife's behaviors, and are on your side in this. It astonishes me that your wife actually feels so safe in the knowledge that you are going to be okay with this. 

She's batsh*t my friend, and on her way to more self-destruction.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Thorburn, your gut didn't fail once when you suspected your wife was having multiple affairs last year. If your gut is telling you this is a bad situation brewing, then act.
> 
> I have followed your threads and talked to you via PM. All I can say is, your wife has not changed one iota. Not one.
> 
> ...


She ws not in the same room. I am still in another city. We just had an arguement. She told me I am controlling and that she wants to speak to other people about this. I said I knew that was coming (the controlling part). I said I do not care who you talk to, make your choice right now, me or her. She said i guess it is you. She went on. I said why does someone who has not been part of your life for over 30 years have anything to do with our marriage? I said if I was you I would end it right now. i said whatever happened to the "I will do whatever it takes"?

She told me she is hungry and tired and we can talk later.

I will not relent on this one. Not one person I talked to today, her older brother, a doctor I used to work with (who knows my wife), no one here on TAM, has disagreed with me. I am listening. They have all told me that this is not good. And if she does not end it it does not bode well for us. 

I am pis****.

My doctor friend told me he would not have stayed in the marriage. I get that. I have put up with a lot from a 51 year old in the last two years.

I get it that I get angry. I do not like it. 

I was never controlling. But to me this is just wrong. Freaken over a friend she has not seen in over 30 years. I am telling you all right now, if the roles would have been reversed I would have dropped that friend the minute my wife complained and never would have argued.

There will be more when we talk later, but I told her and I mean it end it.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> She ws not in the same room. I am still in another city.


Oh, that's right you can track her texts. Sorry I misread. 

Still, that is a blatant middle finger in your face.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor, I've always asked you why you are reconciling with your wife. You can never trust her even if she has the most noble of intentions. Why is she deleting the messages yet again? With the kind of wife you have, are you prepared to be a watchdog for the rest of your life. From your pots, I was expecting that there was a lot of remorse. But from the looks of it, there doesn't seem to be any. She is upto her old tricks again.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Thor, do you have it in you to be a warden? Not saying you're in the wrong here- quite the opposite, in fact. But the fact that you have to have this conversation with her in the first place must be galling.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> I am still in another city. We just had an arguement. She told me I am controlling and that she wants to speak to other people about this. I said I knew that was coming (the controlling part). I said I do not care who you talk to, make your choice right now, me or her. She said i guess it is you. She went on. I said why does someone who has not been part of your life for over 30 years have anything to do with our marriage? I said if I was you I would end it right now. i said whatever happened to the "I will do whatever it takes"?
> 
> She told me she is hungry and tired and we can talk later.


Typical cheaterspeak: gaslighting, stalling and obfuscation. This would be almost laughable if it weren't so pathetic. :slap:


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> My WS got in contact with an old GF via FB after she started her A in July 2011. There was no contact prior to this for over 30 years. They partied in HS and went to comestology school together. Last summer my WS contacted her. They tried to meet but could not settle on a date as they each had excuses. i followed this on FB. Then my WS announces that they were meeting a few weeks ago. She had said that they would meet in town (I had no problem at the time). Then they decided to meet halfway (her GF lives back in my WS hometown). They met at a tavern and had a good time. Now my WS texts with her friend quite a bit. I blew up on Firday night about it because I am tracking her phone and saw all the texts but my WS deleted them all. My WS told me that I can't stop her from seeing her. We had a nasty agruement. We did make up late Friday night and had a decent weekend.
> 
> Last week my WS was telling me about her GF's husband (on FB she does not show that she is married), how he ended up in the hospital and his elderly father broke a bone helping him, etc. I told my WS that I do not want to hear about it. Why do you know so much about someone you ignored for 30 years.
> 
> ...


First of all take the word controlling out of your vocabulary right now. This is something that WS use to vilify and gaslight BS. It has no place in this context. You cannot control anyone else. Period.

You are not overreacting at all. If you feel this person is going to have a negative influence on your wife at such a critical time in your R then your wife IF SHE IS REALLY REMORSEFUL, will not object to ending contact with her. Remember this, a friend that is not a friend of the marriage is an enemy of the marriage. Case closed.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Thor, I've always asked you why you are reconciling with your wife. You can never trust her even if she has the most noble of intentions. Why is she deleting the messages yet again? With the kind of wife you have, are you prepared to be a watchdog for the rest of your life.


I am not going to the rest of my life. But please tell me if I am wrong, at this stage to check things. I think most people at the time line I am at do.

She deleted texts because her phone was full. She deleted her youngest brother's texts. She told me that she talks to him about me. I don't care and in fact I encourage her to do so. He is the only one in her family that talks to her. Her two older brothers don't and have not since she called them and told them she had sex with the OM back in November. Her brothers talk to me. Her two sisters talked to her at a bridal shower two weeks ago and that is the only time they talked since the A.

The only deleted text I am upset about is the ones from her friend and that set me off on Friday. 

Man, I have never controlled her, been angry with her, cursed her, never been paranoid, never. I told her that she has done this.

If she wants out, fine. Then she better tell me, because so far she says she wants to work it out. 

But like I said, if she lets a friend who she had nothing to do with for over 30 years get between us, then I am done.

She says she needs a friend. I get that. But there are many people who I would not have a problem with that we both know and who have reached out to her in many ways over the past two years and she is not interested. In fact, over the past year several of her friends from the antique business have asked her to go out with them and she has not. I would be fine with that.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Thor, do you have it in you to be a warden? Not saying you're in the wrong here- quite the opposite, in fact. But the fact that you have to have this conversation with her in the first place must be galling.


i protected this country for over 37 years. Served in combat, bronze star and combat action badge. I can be a dam* warden and a badas* if I need to be. But with my wife I have not had to go into that mode until now. 12 years ago she convinced her family that I was abusing her. She was having internet sex affairs with four guys around the world. She told them that being in the military had caused me to be abusive. I was never abusive to her. This was her cover. Her family, every one of them had lived with us over the years for months at a time. Finally her oldest brother said, this does not make sense. My wife had convinced them not to contact me. He did. Finally her family crumbled and when it was found out what was really going on her dad cursed her out and smashed the phone (he never said a mean word to her). Her oldest brother told me today that if his dad was alive today he would have killed her and the OM.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Ok, you are not being controlling. You are trusting her but verifying. You are communicating to her about your feelings. You are trying to reconcile with a cheater. Being angry with someone that betrayed you is ok as long as it doesn't pass into abuse. And if it does you will know. Cursing her is also not unexpected. You are dealing with PTSD symptoms that she caused. You also will not have to do this forever. Your wife is not liking the aftermath of her betrayal. Well boo f'ing hoo. You are alpha-ing up and that is EXACTLY what you need to do.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> i protected this country for over 37 years. Served in combat, bronze star and combat action badge. I can be a dam* warden and a badas* if I need to be. But with my wife I have not had to go into that mode until now. 12 years ago she convinced her family that I was abusing her. She was having internet sex affairs with four guys around the world. She told them that being in the military had caused me to be abusive. I was never abusive to her. This was her cover. Her family, every one of them had lived with us over the years for months at a time. Finally her oldest brother said, this does not make sense. My wife had convinced them not to contact me. He did. Finally her family crumbled and when it was found out what was really going on her dad cursed her out and smashed the phone (he never said a mean word to her). Her oldest brother told me today that if his dad was alive today he would have killed her and the OM.


I just mean to say that it's unfair to yourself to expect to police her bad behavior for the rest of your natural. You've a life to live.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> But like I said, if she lets a friend who she had nothing to do with for over 30 years get between us, then I am done.
> 
> She says she needs a friend. I get that. But there are many people who I would not have a problem with that we both know and who have reached out to her in many ways over the past two years and she is not interested. In fact, over the past year several of her friends from the antique business have asked her to go out with them and she has not. I would be fine with that.


But why is she acting _this_ way with _this_ particular friend? I cannot believe this old GF is her only friend on earth. No way. Is your wife that isolated? 

She deleted that text for a reason. You may have to call your cell provider and see if they can dredge it up for you to look at.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Can't unless I get a court order and I can't get a court order for this.

She just hung up on me all upset. She said this is the only friend she has. It is bullsh**. She named a bunch of friends at the beginning of her conversation with me and I told her that I would have no problem with any of the ones she named.

She mentioned Carrie. Her childhood friend. A very rich liberal friend who we have met over the years and who got insulted with my wife when abortion was mentioned. She rarely talked to her on FB. Once in the last year about a song her and her husband posted on Youtube. My wife said it was sweet (it was). That was it.

Her college friend Sonia. Sonia has been in contact with me during this not my wife. My wife had her visit last year and my wife could not wait for her to leave because of her hyper Christianity. Sonia is a sweet Puerto Rican girl. My wife smokes and will not smoke around Sonia. My wife says she has to be fake around her. In the Christian world my wife is convicted around her "Christian" friends and does not want to be too close to them. My wife calls them judgemental. Believe me, they are not. They have always been understanding of my wife.

Her GF's from when she worked FT in the antique business. There are at least 1/2 dozen or more from all stripes of life who would love to be around my wife. My wife can be fun to be around. But she has avoided each and everyone of them. We went out for dinner a few months ago with one and you can see that they connect and have fun together. Lydia is fun to be with. She is a Christian and had an abortion early in life and has no judgemental spirit in her. She gets it. Yet my wife will not open up to her for whatever reason. Lydia and her husband Bob are very wealthy but they are down to earth folk. They understand people. When we had the Amish killed in the Nickle Mine school, Bob and Lydia reached out to the killer's wife and kids and hid them for months at their expense, on one of their farms. 

i could go on and on. My wife isolated herself because she did not want her secret to be out there. She knew that these people would be suspicious of her behavior.

We have non-Christian friends. I could go through this list and yet my wife has not reached out to them at all. 

So my wife is now in tears, hung up on me over a GF from 30 years ago. Saying this is the only friend she has and I am controlling her and says I have to stop this.

She says I have lied to her about painting the shed, or going to the gym. Ok, I have not painted the shed or have gone to the gym. I am the world's biggest liar.

Yet, she goes on anti-depressives in early Dec. It takes away her sex drive. She says she does not like it and will see her doctor about it. She keeps telling me in Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar that she will see her doctor about it and has not. She says she will go in for counseling for as long as it takes and she stops going for a month. I get mad. She goes and the counselor announces that she does not need to be seen anymore because her depression in under control. Depression. My wife said she was going for counseling to figure out why she did what she did, to prevent it from happening again, why she is so attractive to men in public, and why she falls in love with strangers in a few days. She has not addressed any of this. 

She tells me now that she is going next week to see why I have looked at porn. Porn. She says that I have looked at porn and this bothers her. I have looked. When I came home from Iraq I looked at porn maybe a few times, I did not hide it from her. While in Iraq I looked at porn a few times. When ever she asked I told her. She is now saying that is why she cheated on me.

I have not hid this from anyone. Her oldest brother told me again today that it does not make sense. A lot of guys look at it and it is not the same as what she has done.

My wife told me on the phone that she was going to give me an ultimatum years ago that I need to retire from the Army because she suspected that i looked at porn when I was away. But she never did. 

Everytime we went in for MC porn was brought up (3 times since 1995). Everytime the MC ended the session after a few visits. Each and every one of them said, I am not addicted, but said that a lot of guys look at it and if I am not denying my wife of sex, and if it did not replace her (I can say it never, ever did) then she needs to stop coersing me about it. I was open about it in MC. I never hid it. From the time I got back from Iraq till her A I looked at porn a few times and never once got off on my own, with the exception when she was in the hospital for a week with seven broken ribs. I was accused by her doctor of doing it (he said I just got back from Iraq and went off on her). The fact is she has brittle bones from her chemo for treating her arthritis and she coughed so severly that her bones broke. Social workers came every day to get it out of her that I beat her. My wife could not believe it and told them that I never lifted a finger against her. She told them to call her doctors and they will tell them that she has brittle bones. Last month our dog sat on her when they were playing and broke a rib.

In 2000 she looked at porn thousands of times. I know, I had a keylogger on our computer and she was in the midst of sexual online affairs with 4 guys. I did not care about the porn. I cared about the sexual affairs and that is what I gave to her family, all the sexual text. 

Last month she said she cheated because her mother died and I was not there for her. Yet, my former boss would give me all the time off I needed. My wife said, she does not need me to come home that talking to her on the phone was enough.

She told me she cheated because when I came back from Iraq I had E.D. Hel* i just got back from combat. On the first night in the hotel I had E.D. I got severe pain went to the E.R. got viagra and she had to tell me to stop, all within hours of my problem.

She told me she cheated because her sister told everyone last March that she had internet sex in 2010.

She told me she cheated because she wanted fun and excitement in her life.

I could go on since D-day on why she said she cheated. It has changed so many times.

In counseling if a guy brings up porn I do a quick assessment. Did you ever deny your wife sex because of porn? Does porn control you? Has it affected your sleep where you stay up late and can't walk away from it? Has it affected your work? Is it excessive and controlling your life? If the general answer is no, I move on to other things.

My wife is now blameshifting, IMO. And it does us no good. I said I will talk about porn but I will not let her blame me for her behavior.


----------



## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> i protected this country for over 37 years. Served in combat, bronze star and combat action badge. I can be a dam* warden and a badas* if I need to be. But with my wife I have not had to go into that mode until now. 12 years ago she convinced her family that I was abusing her. She was having internet sex affairs with four guys around the world. She told them that being in the military had caused me to be abusive. I was never abusive to her. This was her cover. Her family, every one of them had lived with us over the years for months at a time. Finally her oldest brother said, this does not make sense. My wife had convinced them not to contact me. He did. Finally her family crumbled and when it was found out what was really going on her dad cursed her out and smashed the phone (he never said a mean word to her). Her oldest brother told me today that if his dad was alive today he would have killed her and the OM.


Thorburn, I think you are caught between the real you and your self-image of (you).

Your self image is a man of strong boundaries, tough love, and reasonable expectations.

The real you has tolerated multiple online sexual affairs from your wife, at least one real in-the-flesh PA, and the kind of crap your wife is pulling now, where by her words and deeds she shows no respect for you or your feelings.

There seems to be a pretty serious disconnect between these two guys, and your wife is not healing the breach. 

She should be.

I think you know that based on your wife's past behavior, you are not being unreasonable here, much less controlling.

You are having to negotiate with your wife for things (fidelity and devotion) that she should be giving you voluntarily. Your negotiation is taking the form of arguments with her, but it is negotiating nonetheless.

And the problem you are going to run into again and again is the one you are running into now. You're going to have to argue and fight and negotiate and spy and eavesdrop to get the things out of your marriage that you're SUPPOSED to get out of a marriage.

I don't envy you that. I will say that in reading your posts, you have always struck me as a decent and honorable man making the best of a pretty lousy situation. You've given your wife a lot more chances than she deserves. 

Stick to your guns and you'll be okay through this situation.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

NotLikeYou nailed it. Well said.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Can't unless I get a court order and I can't get a court order for this.
> 
> She just hung up on me all upset. She said this is the only friend she has. It is bullsh**. She named a bunch of friends at the beginning of her conversation with me and I told her that I would have no problem with any of the ones she named.
> 
> ...


If infidelity weren't involved I would say that all these things are sh!t tests and to either ignore them. However she is blameshifting and that is evident. Do not argue with her. When she says any of this just say NO!

Do not argue with her. Simply give her an ultimatum. If she is not going to show true remorse and work on R then it ends. None of this should be tolerated from you at all. I think you are incredibly strong for trying to save your marriage but from what you've written it seems to me that the work is all coming from your end. You need to decide if this is all worth it.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

She says I am twisting things and embellishing the truth. She says everyone she has talked to has told her I am wrong. She has only talked to her youngest brother and sister in law. And they are telling her that I am wrong. She says she is telling them the truth. And that she is going in for counseling because I looked at porn and that will get to the bottom of why she cheated on me. 

I told her that she had un protected sex with a stranger the first time she met him and she drove him to a motel. She said I have said this five times today. She says I am not showing her love that I am putting her down.

She said she is not going to contact her friend but she does not like it. I told her what Beowulf said and she said, let me talk to him and I will tell him the truth. I refused. This is one of my safe spots. I told her what I wrote and she said, I am embellishing.

I asked her again why she is so upset over a GF from 30 years ago. She said it is normal for people to reconnect. She said I did. And she mentioned two guys and the only two guys that I reconnected with over the years. OK, Brad was my best man in my wedding and we lost contact. Around 1995 I met with Brad at a Burger King for about an hour and then I went to his house around 2001 when I was stationed in the Army in the town he lived in and he lived about 1 mile from my duty station. I met with his wife and kids for about an hour. Brad and his wife Judy had no interest in me and that was apparent and when I left I never had contact with him again. Brad and Judy are church going folks. Around 1995 my wife had no interest in meeting with Brad. The Burger King is a mile from our home and my wife said she did not want to go meet him. That was fine with me. Then there was Bob, my college roommate. He and I had a falling out over his sister in law and brother in law. It was a messy church thing where I relieved her of her church duties for almost having an affair and it became gossip. This woman told my roommate that I was evil and she did not want Bob to have anything to do with me. To keep peace in the family Bob stopped contacting me. That was around 1992. Bob called me December of 2008 to patch things up. We stayed in contact during my time in Iraq. Bob was a Messianic Jewish pastor and now is a banker. A good guy. After 2009 there has been no further contact, we drifted apart. My wife brought this up tonight and I told her if you had a problem with Brad or Bob I would have dropped them in a minute, but the reality is they did not represent things from the past that were bad. Brad or Bob do not drink. In college we were straight laced guys and did not drink. Neither Bob nor I were the partying type and we did everything together until I met my wife. Bob got mad and told my future wife that she ruined our friendship. I told Bob, laughingly, that I could never marry him and he got it. My wife and I did not party. In fact I rarely drank alcohol throughout our marriage from 1987 until 2000. That is when my wife was doing the internet sex thing and was going out with a guy drinking beer in his pick up truck (yea, she still says there was no sex). She went out with this guy several times and my boys would tell me that mom smelled liked cigarettes and alcohol (they were around 11 and 12 at the time). After her dad got involved and straighted her out we started to drink more and that in 2001 I started smoking because my wife did. Up until this time my wife would not drink. 

We talked again about 40 minutes ago and she said that I am bringing stuff up on a day that she has worked hard and been on her feet. That this is not right.

She said I am looking for perfection (this has been a common theme), in her and that nothing will be right in my eyes. That I have her under a microscope. That I am nitpicking everything. I said, maybe I am but you have caused this. She says I keep bringing this stuff up everyday. I don't. There have been days where I don't bring it up (once for four days). ANd there have been times where 3 or 4 days have gone by and we talked about the A for an hour and that is it.

This last issue about her GF has bugged me and yes we argued about it Friday and today. I did not discuss the affair yesterday, if my thinking is correct, nor Saturday, nor Sunday (I think).

So no I am not a saint. But the ultimatum stands.  No contact with this former GF.

She says i have friends that I can talk to and I do. She says she does not. When I brought up her friends she gave me every excuse in the book why she can't or how wrong I am about these girls. I wish I could record our conversations. She tells me about her friends at the beginning of the conversation then she tells me she never said that and that she has no friends or the friends that I bring up are not her friends.

She is now crying,, telling me that this makes me offensive to her, and that she is taking a bath and going to bed.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> She says I am twisting things and embellishing the truth. She says everyone she has talked to has told her I am wrong. She has only talked to her youngest brother and sister in law. And they are telling her that I am wrong. She says she is telling them the truth. And that she is going in for counseling because I looked at porn and that will get to the bottom of why she cheated on me.
> 
> I told her that she had un protected sex with a stranger the first time she met him and she drove him to a motel. She said I have said this five times today. She says I am not showing her love that I am putting her down.
> 
> ...


Hell, I'll PM you my private email address if she wants to talk to me. I'll have Morrigan talk to her as well. Frankly she won't like what I have to tell her though. I'm going to guess that Morrigan will be even more harsh than I.

She doesn't like the fallout from her affair. The restrictions are closing in on her and she is trying to make a stand. Hold your ground soldier.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Hell, I'll PM you my private email address if she wants to talk to me. I'll have Morrigan talk to her as well. Frankly she won't like what I have to tell her though. I'm going to guess that Morrigan will be even more harsh than I.
> 
> She doesn't like the fallout from her affair. The restrictions are closing in on her and she is trying to make a stand. Hold your ground soldier.


Yes, I would welcome that. I am not sure if she will talk. I do not want her to know about TAM though. It has been my safety net.

She has gotten more bold. I know that this is a power struggle and she is trying to regain hers. I know in the future that things will have to shift more in her direction but right now she has shifted to fighting mode and now is not the time to divide power. I still think she is hiding stuff. She said they were together five times, had sex four times and I busted up their fifth. I know seven for a fact. Two dates she swears they did not meet. September 27 is one. We came home from Disney on September 24th and the OM left with his family to go to Disney around Oct. 1st, exactly a week after we got back. This is significant because they would have talked about Disney. She claims they did not meet on this date and she only text him about Disney. I know that she text her brother in the morning till about 11 A.M. It was his birthday. All phone activity stopped till around 3 (it stopped because she was doing her hair and showering around noon till about 1 or 2 and then she would drive to his work place and get there around 3). This was the pattern on most occasions, the phone would show her at his work place around 3 and then at another location (a town where they always had sex) and then around 6 it would show that they were near his home and then a little later back near our home. The OM got off at that time, would shower and my wife would pick him up at his work site. They then drove off in her car. I have the phone records and her phone show these times and locations. I contacted the phone company and know where she was. She denies this date. I could go through the other date and times. Times past 9 P.M. She says she was never out that late. I know for a fact that on a particular date she dropped him off near his house at 10:45 P.M. and one time at around 10:30 P.M. She says she does not remember. 

I don't believe her and still think she is hiding stuff. She says she never had sex with the guy in 2000. Yet she drove around with him several times and drank beer with him in his pick up truck. Then she came home, packed up her stuff and moved in with him. Left me with the kids (ages around 11 and 12). She said she was so upset when she got to his house that she went upstairs the guy slept on his couch and she showered and slept on his bed. Her dad called her the next morning cursed her out and busted up his phone. There was a blizzard and her dad called me and told me that she is coming home and that I am to love her and forgive her and accept her.

I like some on TAM want her to come clean and she says she has.

She told me tonight that when I made her call her brothers and sisters at the beginning of December that I humiliated her. That I forced her to do it. She told me she would do anything to make this marriage work and keep me from leaving. Yet she lied to me and her brothers telling me and them that she only had sex once. On December 13th with lots of threats she "told me the whole story". I wish I had the phone records then because I believe at that point she would have told me everything. The sex part does not make sense either. She said they did it once each time. Heck, my wife and I had sex four or five times already in one day, with her getting off and she is saying that they were together naked in our car and in hotel rooms and they only had sex once each time. I do not believe it.

My doctor friend today told me that I am a strong guy, that he would have left my wife.

I do love her. But I will not be a doormat. Some will say that I am already but all I want is the truth, remorse, and her willingness to work this out and stop pretending that everything is OK. I know she thinks I am now the problem and I want her to realize that it is not me.

She has tried to turn this on it's head and say I am the bad guy and that I caused her to do it. I will not allow her to do it. I honestly believe she thinks she can get away with it, at least I think that is why she is fighting me. I will not allow that. IF she wants out then she can file and we will loose the house and everything we have worked towards and right now if she does, I will quit my job and live as a homeless vet, Because I will not give her a penny of support. We can divide up the assets and I will buy a Harley and she will not hear from me again. The VA will take care of me and I will be OK. Hel* I know my combat crap will get me a cot and three hots for at least a few years in a VA shelter.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Hell, I'll PM you my private email address if she wants to talk to me. I'll have Morrigan talk to her as well. Frankly she won't like what I have to tell her though. I'm going to guess that Morrigan will be even more harsh than I.
> 
> She doesn't like the fallout from her affair. The restrictions are closing in on her and she is trying to make a stand. Hold your ground soldier.


No don't write her Wulf. She'd probably fall in love with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thor, don't give in until you guys get into your new house. Once you two are living together get into some hardcore counseling and get someone who knows what they're doing to mediate between the two of you. You're chasing each others tails and not getting anywhere productive. Don't give up yet, just tell her the GF is a boundary she cannot cross. Pick your battles wisely. I think she's on the verge of tipping one way or another. Don't tip her away from you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

My exh refused to do any lifting during our R and he would often call me controlling. My response to him was not that I was controlling, but I was explaining and enforcing "my boundaries" for him to stay in this marriage. 

your W still seems to be in a cake eating mindset. Maybe you could arrange some friends of your M to go over and talk to her about her concerns. She seems to be selectively seeking out others to talk to who will support her views.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Thor, by this time, you should know that this is the template for the rest of your life. This is how you will be living until whatever is left of her beauty fades away and no one will look at her. Until then this is how you should expect to live with her


Edit:

Wow read the last post. She is not one bit remorseful. Not one single bit. You humiliated her for exposing her to her brothers? You are in false R Thor. The arguments she is making are giving a real picture about her. They are absolutely ridiculous. I was telling you all this time. She is biding her time for now. She will be upto her tricks again. I was picturing a better R based on your posts. But this is ridiculous. 

Her past makes it even worse. She left you and the kids to stay with another guy? In addition to 4 internet affairs? And you believed she moved in with a guy who she had no sexual relationships with? Can you see the patterns? She cheated. You take her back. She cheated. You take her back.. She will chat again. See will do it again once the scrutiny drops. Her remorse is as fake as it gets

I said it before but I think your ego/pride was satisfied when she grabbed you by your legs and begged you not to leave her. but it does not mean squat to her. She will grab a donkey's leg if it means that she will sustain her lifestyle. 

Abort immediately.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

It does indeed sound like a fake R.

ADs do affect libido, but tell you what: my wife's on them, can't even O for weeks, but still initiates sex every night. A conscious decision on her part, among many other things she reckons she has to do to stay married.

And this whole porn thing, what on the Earth is that?! You must really be a saint if she has to focus on that for blameshifting!


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> My doctor friend today told me that I am a strong guy, that he would have left my wife.


He is being nice about it. That is not what he meant to say. Thor, your advice on most of the infidelity posts are spot on, but you seem to have a hard time applying the same advice to yourself.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> 12 years ago she convinced her family that I was abusing her. She was having internet sex affairs with four guys around the world. She told them that being in the military had caused me to be abusive. I was never abusive to her. This was her cover. Her family, every one of them had lived with us over the years for months at a time. Finally her oldest brother said, this does not make sense. My wife had convinced them not to contact me.


This is absolutely shocking. This is not a nice person. This is an evil act, and the kind of person that would do such a thing to another is not one that I can comprehend. This is the action of a person who loves no one. I don't understand. This is worse than any kind of cheating. This is a complete betrayal that is undeniably cruel, so very very cruel. I am in shock Thorburn. Really in shock. How on earth did you get past this? How did you get over such a betrayal?


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thor,

I'm PMing you my email address. Give it to your wife and tell her my wife and I were in your shoes many years ago. That we can speak from experience. I will not mention TAM at all. I will be very nice but you have seen the way I write and advise people. She won't what I have to say. She'll like Morrigan's advice even less.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah I was shocked to when Thor mentioned the incident of her moving in with that other man all those years ago. No way she went to that man's house and nothing happened. No way Jose. 

It's like more layers are being peeled off the onion. Thorburn never mentioned that incident before...almost like he surpressed the memory of it. 

This is really horrifying. If she was doing this crap while he was here in the states I shudder to think what she was getting away with while he was deployed in the Middle East. 

I guess that's why I'd like to see him and his wife go to some hardcore counseling with someone who specializes in adultery, and who won't let her rugsweep. Even if in the end the marriage is not salvageable, Thorburn may at least get her to come clean on her behavior over the past decade and have the answers he has been seeking. Maybe if he has them he can get some closure and move on with his life. 

This is a sick, deeply troubled woman who I fear has been a rampant serial cheater -- quite possibly for the majority of their marriage. I pray it isn't so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't really have any advice per se but, I have serious doubts as to your W's commitment to your marriage. You have cited numerous reasons that she stated were the cause of her infidelity. I don't recall reading where SHE has taken accountability at all for her actions. 

I also find it humorous that she is "offended". Seriously? I am a DS myself and I am an open book. My time is accountable, my phone and email available. 

I haven't read any of your other threads but, it just doesn't seem your W is doing the work needed to be done to help you get through this at all. She should thank her lucky stars that she has been given a chance at all.

In regards to your question my answer is no. You are most definitely NOT wrong for saying no to your W in regards to her "friend".


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

This is so tough to read. Thor, I think you thought you were one of these people that could get past your wife's PA. I know right now I couldn't ever get past it. I would be done.

In your case, you thought you were strong enough to handle it - but your W isn't completely remorseful, isn't being completely honest, and your "strength" in unraveling. This all happened not long ago - just a few months. It's still quite fresh and your W is already pushing back on you, still telling trickle truths.

In your shoes, I would say, hey, I tried, but it's time to bail. Clearly, I am not you - but it just looks like this is where this is heading. So sorry man.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> No don't write her Wulf. She'd probably fall in love with you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not bloody likely.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thor,

Your situation is made even more difficult because you aren't living together during the week correct? She can't see your body language when you are triggering. She can't see the daily reminder of the pain she has caused. Right now she is complying with what you ask but your voice is just a voice in the dark to her. Until you are both together every day its going to be very difficult to truly reconcile.

There is quite a lot to overcome. Probably even more than is currently known. And the fact that she is still trying to blame you and not taking responsibility is holding things up. I don't think she will own her sh!t until she has to deal with you face to face daily. How long until that comes about?


----------



## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Thor, the history of your marriage is a very painful one, marked by prolonged separation and repeated infidelity by your wife. You certainly have a very strong commitment to the marriage, or you'd be long gone. The problem is that it doesn't seem like your wife is equally committed. Unless she can get past what she see as her immediate needs, and do some serious work on the relationship, I don't see how your efforts can succeed.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Thor,
> 
> Your situation is made even more difficult because you aren't living together during the week correct? She can't see your body language when you are triggering. She can't see the daily reminder of the pain she has caused. Right now she is complying with what you ask but your voice is just a voice in the dark to her. Until you are both together every day its going to be very difficult to truly reconcile.
> 
> There is quite a lot to overcome. Probably even more than is currently known. And the fact that she is still trying to blame you and not taking responsibility is holding things up. I don't think she will own her sh!t until she has to deal with you face to face daily. How long until that comes about?


I am not sure. We have a house and a signed agreement. We are waiting for several things. Our bank ran a new credit report and there is an outstanding bill for $2,000. So I have to pay that and then we can proceed. It had to do with my wife's chemo for arthritis (it is expensive) and the insurance did not cover some of it. My wife let things go financially during the A and did not follow through with this. So I will pay it and we can move forward.

We are thinking that our move will be in a few weeks.

I hear what you are saying and I know that it is true. I know I turned the heat on big time as my reaction with her GF hit her out of the blue. I know she thinks I am controlling her but I am looking at it as her not getting it. As bandit told me she has been rug sweeping since the beginning. All I can say is that you should have seen the rug sweeping in 2010. She never wanted to talk about it and lied about everything until I hammered her with the proof. Even then she lied and I had to get angry saying look at the fuc**** phone record again. 

I told myself if this is going to work she will not rug sweep and if she does I will just hammer away until she stops or we D.

I feel like I am in a fight for her to see herself. She feels justified now in saying it is my fault, that I caused her to do what she did. You all get it. I get it. IShe doen't get it. I told her that I do not want her to go back to her counselor and she is next week. I asked her to get another one, she won't. I know that this will be another issue.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

river rat said:


> Thor, the history of your marriage is a very painful one, marked by prolonged separation and repeated infidelity by your wife. You certainly have a very strong commitment to the marriage, or you'd be long gone. The problem is that it doesn't seem like your wife is equally committed. Unless she can get past what she see as her immediate needs, and do some serious work on the relationship, I don't see how your efforts can succeed.


Correct. And her response right now is that because I looked at porn that is why she did what she did. That it is all my fault. That I made her that way.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Really, I'd wait with buying into a new house right now, if I were you T.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

snap said:


> Really, I'd wait with buying into a new house right now, if I were you T.


:iagree:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good point. 

Maybe they should cancel the closing and rent a place until they get the marriage back on track. Thorburn would have to eat the earnest money and fees but better that than be stuck with a 30 year mortgage if the marriage ends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Correct. And her response right now is that because I looked at porn that is why she did what she did. That it is all my fault. That I made her that way.


And you want to continue being married to this woman because...?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Thor,
> 
> Your situation is made even more difficult because you aren't living together during the week correct? She can't see your body language when you are triggering. She can't see the daily reminder of the pain she has caused. Right now she is complying with what you ask but your voice is just a voice in the dark to her. Until you are both together every day its going to be very difficult to truly reconcile.
> 
> There is quite a lot to overcome. Probably even more than is currently known. And the fact that she is still trying to blame you and not taking responsibility is holding things up. I don't think she will own her sh!t until she has to deal with you face to face daily. How long until that comes about?


This is absolutely the crux of their problems right now. These two have had, for the majority of their marriage, essentially a long distance relationship. They have never learned, or at least have forgotten, how to live with each other day in and day out, and the bond between them sounds like it was never very strong. The love is there for sure, but not the committment... at least on her part. I might be speaking ahead of myself, but until they are living together in the new house or a rental, I don't see how any lasting R can happen.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> This is absolutely the crux of their problems right now. These two have had, for the majority of their marriage, essentially a long distance relationship. They have never learned, or at least have forgotten, how to live with each other day in and day out, and the bond between them sounds like it was never very strong. The love is there for sure, but not the committment... at least on her part. I might be speaking ahead of myself, but until they are living together in the new house or a rental, I don't see how any lasting R can happen.


I agree. If Thor is not really confident in R happening renting an apartment temporarily may not be such a bad idea. Either way a fresh start with them together every day certainly wouldn't hurt.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

morituri said:


> And you want to continue being married to this woman because...?


Because they have kids and a long history together. This is not some five year, disposable marriage. 

I think the chances of them pulling out of this marital nosedive are slim, but they need to at least exhaust MC and IC before donning the parachutes.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I think it all depends on how she reacts to seeing Thor in pain every day and recognizing that she is the cause. There is a definite disconnect right now but I am hopeful when she sees the extent of the damage she will realize the gravity of what she has done. Right now she is arguing and complaining BUT she is complying. I'm going to take that as a hopeful sign of better things to come. Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> I think it all depends on how she reacts to seeing Thor in pain every day and recognizing that she is the cause. There is a definite disconnect right now but I am hopeful when she sees the extent of the damage she will realize the gravity of what she has done. Right now she is arguing and complaining BUT she is complying. I'm going to take that as a hopeful sign of better things to come. Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist.


Me too. I still think she's batsh*t, but she may be salvageable as a wife.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Thor, I bet part of your gut reaction, and bg part of her desire to reconnect with this GF is that the GF is completely supportive of your wife's choices and cheating.

Want to bet they spent the evening *****ing about you, and the subsequent texting has further bolstered the opinion that you are the cause of all the issues!

Your gut picked up the subtle changes in her attitude after she was talking with the gf.

So now you are trying take away her supporter who has been feeding her a stream of "you poor poor dear thing, you did nothing wrong, he is a controlling jerk."

see why she's fighting so hard? Also, see why it is so important to cut this off now before it really takes hold.

Stay strong, realize why she's fighting like this, and that her words are being partially fed by this old toxic friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Thor, I bet part of your gut reaction, and bg part of her desire to reconnect with this GF is that the GF is completely supportive of your wife's choices and cheating.
> 
> Want to bet they spent the evening *****ing about you, and the subsequent texting has further bolstered the opinion that you are the cause of all the issues!
> 
> ...


Thanks Shaggy and everyone else. You have all been spot on. Friday when we had the fight over her GF my wife was very upset. We made up somewhat. We had a lot planned for the weekend but I said let's go to her youngest brothers for Saturday night and part of Sunday. We had some fun but my wife was somewhat cold. Then the blow up the other day where I gave her the ultimatum. We talked today several times but my wife is not her perky self. Normally after an argument she picks up and tells me she loves me and says lets do something positive and fun. She will talk about the house, antiques or any number of things. Today she just sounded like she was crying as she went shopping, to the bank, etc. She sounds like someone died. But I am not relenting on this.

I think you nailed it that she has told her GF I am a pos. There is no other reason for her to hide stuff. My wife's phone has some memory in it where if I go into reply to a text and I type a word it will start a sentence that she had sent to someone recently. Unfortunately, I only get parts of it. I can gather some information that was said but more times then not I do not get enough. I did pick up some things over the last week or so and it seems that she is putting me down. Can't prove it outright but there was enough. I typed in "he" and "he is acting strange" popped up. I typed in "I" and I dont know how much more, popped up.

My gut told me that this was not good and that is why I told her to end it.

I just wish she would stop grieving over it. Because that is what she is doing.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Thanks Shaggy and everyone else. You have all been spot on. Friday when we had the fight over her GF my wife was very upset. We made up somewhat. We had a lot planned for the weekend but I said let's go to her youngest brothers for Saturday night and part of Sunday. We had some fun but my wife was somewhat cold. Then the blow up the other day where I gave her the ultimatum. We talked today several times but my wife is not her perky self. Normally after an argument she picks up and tells me she loves me and says lets do something positive and fun. She will talk about the house, antiques or any number of things. Today she just sounded like she was crying as she went shopping, to the bank, etc. She sounds like someone died. But I am not relenting on this.
> 
> I think you nailed it that she has told her GF I am a pos. There is no other reason for her to hide stuff. My wife's phone has some memory in it where if I go into reply to a text and I type a word it will start a sentence that she had sent to someone recently. Unfortunately, I only get parts of it. I can gather some information that was said but more times then not I do not get enough. I did pick up some things over the last week or so and it seems that she is putting me down. Can't prove it outright but there was enough. I typed in "he" and "he is acting strange" popped up. I typed in "I" and I dont know how much more, popped up.
> 
> ...


Ok, my advice is that if she has cut off contact with this friend you should take the lead and plan something nice for the two of you. Go to a nice restaurant, or a movie. This is going to sound paternalistic but if she complied you should reward her good behavior. That's just my opinion. Its going to be hard to make any real progress until you are both together so my suggestion is that you should just reinforcing boundaries and establishing the parameters of the relationship going forward. You can deal with the harder stuff when you are more able to address it better.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If you are an abusive POS who is at fault for everything since the beginning of time including her cheating on you multiple times with multiple men, why does she want to R?

Military Retirement?


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Ok, my advice is that if she has cut off contact with this friend you should take the lead and plan something nice for the two of you. Go to a nice restaurant, or a movie. This is going to sound paternalistic but if she complied you should reward her good behavior. That's just my opinion. Its going to be hard to make any real progress until you are both together so my suggestion is that you should just reinforcing boundaries and establishing the parameters of the relationship going forward. You can deal with the harder stuff when you are more able to address it better.


I agree. She does not like going to movies but the restaurant works and I know what she likes. I know that we need to be together but it can't happen right now. 

I discovered that her chemo treatments cost a little over $6,000.00 each and she needs them every 8 weeks. Our insurance covers most but not all. We had a grant for years to cover the rest but they stopped covering this medication and did not inform us. So my wife will pay the outstanding bill tomorrow and I will explain it to the bank and that should get us back on track with the move. 

The house we are buying was listed for $160,000 and it was on the market for over 500 days. I offered $65,000 and the sellers took my offer. I can't tell you how many houses we looked at and when we found this one my wife and I looked at each other and said this is the one. When I gave the realtor our offer she said we will see. There was no back and forth. The house needs a little work but our inspector did a thorough job and said that there are no major issues. The hardwood floors need redone, needs paint in some areas, three windows are cracked, some minor plumbing issues. Everything my wife or I can do. Hel* I built our current home 15 years ago with the help of friends. Actually, my friends built it and I helped. My youngest son helped when he was ten years old and when we first thought of moving he said we can't sell the house since he helped build it. But we would not have been able to keep up on both and fortunately his internship ended and he got hired full-time and now he can afford to rent it from us. He is getting married some time in the near future. At least I will not have to worry about repairs, etc. My son moved back home a few months ago, knowing he was going to rent it and he has already replaced the kitchen facet, and did other repairs that I would have done, had I been home. 

So I am not getting in over my head at all with this house. We were looking in the $150,000 range and this is well below what we ever expected to pay. My current home will be paid off in 4 years if not sooner.

I can't explain exactly why I have put up with my wife. Love, yes. Perhaps it had to do more with her father asking me to take care of his daughter after the first incident 12 years ago. He was poor (his brother (uncle Bob) was the president of BVD and the first CEO of Levi Strauss who had no family connections to the founder), anyway, my FIL was just a great man. He loved me and on his deathbed he got all excited when I came in the room and announced to everyone that I was there. He pulled me aside on the day he lapsed into a coma and told me again to take care of his daughter no matter what. Some have said on TAM that a promise to a dead man is not really valid at this point. I understand that. My wife's vows have apparently meant nothing to her. I wish my FIL was still alive to help me, because he was very wise, kind, and understanding. But he could be firm and was with my wife. 

I hurt. I mean I really hurt. And these last days have been hard. But I am committed to the long haul. That does not mean I will not file for D, but right now I am moving forward with her.

She has made progress, not as much nor as fast as I like and I will not make any excuses for her. But right now it is enough for me to stay. 

If you would have seen how she was when I was in Iraq, how she supported me prior to leaving and right after I came home you would understand me a little better. There were times I thought I would never ever see another sunset again. Perhaps being in combat prepared me for this. I am not sure. But I am in a fight and I am not ready to give up just yet.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't drink anymore....not since high school. I do believe as a teenager I was an burgeoning alcoholic, and I spent alot of time in juvenile detention for minor possession of alcohol, fighting and truancy. My dad caught it when I was sixteen and nipped it in the bud, and said he would send me to the Citadel if I didn't get my act together. Military school was not a dream plan for me so I quit and cooled my sh*t. Thank God I had my dad. I wish he were here to help me through this. 

You must have been going off on your wife pretty badly for your sons to switch sides and turn against you, as well as her brothers. Sounds like you were really going off the cliff. Have you been talking to her every day?


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I don't drink anymore....not since high school. I do believe as a teenager I was an burgeoning alcoholic, and I spent alot of time in juvenile detention for minor possession of alcohol, fighting and truancy. My dad caught it when I was sixteen and nipped it in the bud, and said he would send me to the Citadel if I didn't get my act together. Military school was not a dream plan for me so I quit and cooled my sh*t. Thank God I had my dad. I wish he were here to help me through this.
> 
> You must have been going off on your wife pretty badly for your sons to switch sides and turn against you, as well as her brothers. Sounds like you were really going off the cliff. Have you been talking to her every day?




Several times a day. Talking to her now as I write this. Things are going a lot better. She went to counseling today and has not said anything about that yet. She also visited her parent's grave. She is now heading over to where we have our antique business.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

A fruit bowl... anything.


----------



## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> A fruit bowl... anything.


----------

