# when do you know it's over, even when you are still in love?



## brownie (Jul 28, 2009)

I posted this under a different title and only got on response. 

I have been considering Love Must be Tough and The Love Dare. What I know is he is probably going to move out soon. I am not going to feel sorry for myself but it will be hard on the kids. 

We have been married almost 11 years, been together almost 20years.

When we met almost 20 years ago, I was 19 and a sophomore in college, he was 20. I was not expecting a relationship and really thought he was just a cute guy. About one week before I realized he was the one (we had known each other for 3 weeks at this point), I had sex with another guy (hadn't yet had sex with my now husband). He asked me if I did and I lied because I knew it would be over before it started if I told the truth. Every couple of years, he would ask again and I continued to deny it. Well, almost 7 years ago, I was tired of lying and when he asked, I told the truth. Since then, things haven't been the same except for brief periods of happiness.

Trying to right my wrongs, I told him everything about everything in my past and instead of helping, it has made it worse. He has gotten paternity tests for both the boys (haven't slept with another man in almost 20 years, of course they're yours!!), says that if the root is wrong, the fruit is wrong, has threatened to leave and now has an apt. application on the kitchen counter for the last two weeks, even took the boys with him to pick it up (they told me on the way home one day when we passed the buildings). He didn't tell them why they were there.

His issues aren't based solely on what happened, he believes that I actually have cheated on him while we were dating and says that he cannot trust me. We don't talk unless it is about the kids. I have stayed because of the boys and because I have been consumed with guilt over lying to him, believing that I have caused this level of distrust. 

I have asked him for forgiveness many times and I know that I have not received it from him but it is well past time for me to forgive myself for lying and stand up to him and the fact that he is choosing to have the kind of relationship we currently have.

I am still totally attracted to him and I still love him. I still don't believe in giving up when I feel this way. Are we too far gone to find our way back?


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

See how stupid it is to tell someone you had an affair? Especially one from so long ago? I cannot stress enough how stupid it is to tell...it only places guilt and anger on the spouse and it almost always makes the relationship take a dip into fecal waters.

There are only three reasons to tell of an affair...if someone gets or is pregnant, an STD or you're just stupid.

If you're staying because of the kids, that's a bogus and not very bright thing to do either.

You need to sit down...write a letter, talk, email, whatever form of communication you can find result with and figure out what you both want to do. If the marriage can be saved, it will take a lot of work. Your husband sounds very angry and distrustful, the anger can go away, but getting the trust back is a major task.

If you can't or don't want to work on the marriage, then make an exit plan and go.

Preacher


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## mommyto3boys (Jul 13, 2009)

Hi Brownie,
Well, I guess his issue is that you had lied to him all these years, so if you lied about that (in his mind) all this time, what else have you lied about?
Before I married, I found out my husband slept with someone while we were dating. Even though we were not married, it was absolutely devastating...I thought he loved me and would never do that to me! I did eventually 'accept' it thinking well...we weren't married...so I had to sort out whether I really wanted this man to be my husband (and I did). We married.
Fast forward, two kids and pregnant for the third...he cheated on me when I was 8 months pregnant. I found out about it several years later and again I was devastated!! 

I guess I"m the forgiving kind....he said he loved me and said it was only 'sex' but I have so much anger that I still carry on to this day.
Even though it has been over 10 years since he has told me, my relationship with him will NEVER be the same. Maybe it would have been better if he had not have told me...but then again he was miserable and I somehow KNEW that something that was on his mind and he spilled the beans.

Anyways, I have 3 kids, and I still love my husband and we have stuck together (20 years married next month). I still believe I would be more miserable without him...but some days I feel that maybe life would be better without him, but I just can't and won't put my kids through a divorce...they're better off with BOTH of us.

Was I crazy to stay with him?? Who knows..


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

I agree with mommyto3boys, your husband must be wondering what else you have lied about. Does the “everything about your past” include more cheating? 

That said, I do think seven years is an awful long time to hold a grudge. He can't be happy like this either. He needs to decide whether he wants the marriage to work or not and if he does you two need to start working together to get him over this issue. Really get over it, not forgive and hold onto it, that’s no way for either of you to live and things cannot improve that way. When is the last time you two talked about this?


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## feylovelyheart (Jun 13, 2009)

Well mommy3boys...I don't think you are crazy. I think you are such a forgiving person. It must be hard for you to do that...Forgave him for what he done but I am proud of you to make that decision. I hope you are happy...

It just sometimes love helps you to do something that other people can't do. 

I wish you the best....


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## mommyto3boys (Jul 13, 2009)

Another thing, is that over the years if my husband is argumentative or complaining about 'me', sometimes I bring up the infidelity (rightly or wrongly)...but all is fair in love and war sometimes!

I would guess that there are MORE issues you are having other than the infidelity and he is using it as a weapon against you to 'hurt' you..or to justify his arguments with you..


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## mommyto3boys (Jul 13, 2009)

feylovelyheart said:


> Well mommy3boys...I don't think you are crazy. I think you are such a forgiving person. It must be hard for you to do that...Forgave him for what he done but I am proud of you to make that decision. I hope you are happy...
> 
> It just sometimes love helps you to do something that other people can't do.
> 
> I wish you the best....


Thanks Feylovely, we have had our problems, and he does complain about 'intimacy' issues but in reality it's my built up resentment towards him that has caused my 'intimacy' issues.


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## brownie (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks for your responses. This is going to sound defensive, I know, but I didn't have an affair. I had known my husband for 3 weeks when I slept with another guy. We were not dating exclusively, nor had we had intimate relations when this happened. I feel like my mistake was in lying about it and for so long that he can't believe anything. 

When I said I told him everything else, he wanted to know about my past before I met him and I poured out my heart, thinking that trusting him enough to share would show him that I have indeed been honest with him. 

I have not cheated on him and it has been almost 20 years.

That said, he had sex with someone when we were broken up in 1991 and told me a year later. I never did because even though we were broken up, I loved him and it would have still been cheating in my mind.


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## mommyto3boys (Jul 13, 2009)

Brownie, well it sounds like he's being very unfair... he can accuse you of 'infidelity' but yet he did it himself!

Sometimes people think things are so different when the shoe in on the 'other foot'...but I'm sure it hurt you even more when you found out what he did.

It sounds like there are other issues at hand...if you can 'forgive' him...he should be 'man' enough to forgive you if he really wants the marriage to survive.

Hugss..


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## brownie (Jul 28, 2009)

Mommyto3boys~ that is exactly what I think. I felt like what he did was worse because it happened after we already had a relationship, so what we were broken up? It does still hurt me to think about it sometimes but I decided 17 years ago to forgive him for it and when it starts to hurt, I have to make the choice to continue to forgive him.

I believe it is really the lying that is the problem for him. He has trust issues definitely. I know for sure that he still loves me and that he is still attracted to me. It is just so hard to look at the person you love and feel like you cannot say anything because they don't want to talk to you.


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## mommyto3boys (Jul 13, 2009)

When you found out that he slept with another woman, did he feel as if he 'cheated' on you? If you were still married, then he did cheat on you whether or not he thinks it or not. Anyways, his perception of what he considers 'cheating' is different than yours. 

And you not finding out about it a year later was in a way him 'lying' to you about not telling you the truth about what he did when you two were apart...even if you didn't flat out ask him.

Will he go to counselling or has he definitely given up on your marriage?? Him continuing to 'blame' you for something that happened so long ago is not fair in the long run for your marriage. If he can't work on the marriage and continues to bring this issue up, I wouldn't hold out much for your marriage in the long run.

I know that I have PLENTY of times where I could bring my husband's infidelity up, but I suppress it and try it put it out of my mind...because in the long run it is detrimental. Although I have forgiven, I will never FORGET..but I refuse to let it pervade my every thought of my day.


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## brownie (Jul 28, 2009)

We weren't married when it happened. These things happened 18 and 20 years ago. We have only been married almost 11 years. 

But- he does not think he cheated because we were broken up. 

I think that if he wanted to end it really, he already would have. But his father left when he was 5 and I know he DOES NOT want to do that to the boys. He said being without a parent is devastating.

I just need him to believe me and in me.


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## mommyto3boys (Jul 13, 2009)

Well have you asked him to go to counseling? Maybe talking to a third party will help him see the light. You would hope he would be willing to go IF he doesn't want to end the marriage.


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## iwantmylifeback (Feb 4, 2009)

Your husband sounds like a petty jerk who is just using this BS ancient history against you as an excuse to get out of the marriage. I suspect he has other reasons but they are hidden behind YOUR horrible cheating. Give me a break. it was 3 weeks into a possible nothing relationship and you were how old? 

You had every right to do what you wanted. It was your life, your body and your privilege! 

And seriously, if you weren't sleeping with him I am sure someone else was. I doubt he is innocent. What man who has gotten used to sex is going to not get some from "friends" till he finds "the one".. not many.

He needs to get over it or you need to let him go.

After 20 years? He is full of it if THIS is his real reason for trying to end things.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

I'd have to agree, ok you shouldn't have lied and then you told him (that is not dumb!!) now he needs to buck up and get over it, he's using it as excuse. Maybe he's bored in marriage?, but a couple lies from when you first started dating isn't worth breaking up your family!! it's ridiculous. And the paternity tests are ridiculous, he needs a big wake up call.


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## brownie (Jul 28, 2009)

The paternity tests broke my heart. 

I feel like I have been living in limbo for so long now. I have asked him to go to counseling and he said that he doesn't need help figuring anything out (all his degrees are in Social Work~go figure!) 

I went for a while by myself but it is hard when you feel like you are trying to work on things and you are working with a brick wall, which is what he has put up between us. 

Thing is, I understand having trust issues with someone when they have lied to you and I know I kept it from him for a very long time, but I haven't been with another man since I was 19 yo and I am 39! 

I am physically and emotionally exhausted but I am not a big believer in divorce, never even pictured it as part of my life.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Sometimes a person who has cheated is more defensive about a possible cheating aspect in their spouse. I know that some people who cheat will accuse their spouse of cheating out of guilt. I’m not saying that your husband is cheating, not at all, but given the one instance that he did (even though he thinks he didn’t) it could be that he’s not forgiven himself for that and it manifests itself by taking it out on you for what he sees as a major lie. Being that he has degrees for social work it’s just silly that he thinks he couldn’t possibly need outside help but I suppose it can be hard to be objective when dealing with himself. 

It sounds like you're doing all the right things to earn his trust back. How long ago was it that you attended counseling by yourself? What did the counselor tell you as far as his behavior regarding the lie?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

This is a long time to hold a grudge for something that happened during the early dating stage.

Sounds like he is either jealous or is hiding something himself??

I don't know. If he isn't willing to work on the marriage and no changes are taking place, then what are your options?


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## brownie (Jul 28, 2009)

I went to counseling for about 2 years off and on and haven't been back in almost a year. Honestly, she was completely baffled by all the things I told her and finally told me I was young enough to find love again.

The thing is, I wasn't looking for a way out; I really wanted to figure it out and try to make it better. Now I realize I cannot do that on my own.

I would be fine financially if we split up. I would just be full of regret I guess. I am not a big believer in divorce and I just keep hoping that one day it will hit him like a ton of bricks that he is wrong. It is very hard to be told time after time that "I can't talk to somebody who lies to me in my face" when you are not lying at all!!!

Also, I cannot even begin to think about the possibility that he would try to get custody of the boys. I AM SURE that he would and that would just kill me. I cannot think of a single reason that he could take them from me based on my credibility as a mother but even the slight chance scares me to death.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Brownie,

No counseling for you as a couple? It great that you looked into yourself individually, but perhaps counseling as a couple.

Since you have children, divorce make things so complicated. Why would he even have a possibility of full custody? Now days, if both parents are fit, there is joint custody. The court really does try to do what is right for the children (usually).

There are some deep rooted issues that your husband has....try the counseling route and see if things can come out into the open.


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## brownie (Jul 28, 2009)

I have asked him to go to counseling many times but he refuses. His mind seems to be set. 

The kids will be devastated and while I feel anxious all day everyday, my main focus has to be on them. 

I really just wish that he could see past the past and realize that is not who I am and haven't been that person for a very long time. I LOVE HIM AND HE KNOWS IT! Last time I told him, he said that I should show it instead of just saying it. SHow it by being honest about being with other people when I have not been!!!!

I told him that the most hurtful thing is that he doesn't realize that I would do anything to keep him from leaving and breaking the boys' hearts but that there isn't anything I can do because there isn't anymore to tell him. Is he stubborn, wounded, or just plain unhappy with me?!?!


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

iwantmylifeback said:


> Your husband sounds like a petty jerk who is just using this BS ancient history against you as an excuse to get out of the marriage. I suspect he has other reasons but they are hidden behind YOUR horrible cheating. Give me a break.


:iagree:

sounds like your H is hiding something and he's using this as an excuse to get out.


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## chozengrlc (Aug 5, 2009)

My situation was a bit reversed, my husband and I met when i was 16 and he was 19. I was the 16 year old virgin who believed every lie that came out of his mouth about his sexual past. He continued to lie and hide his extra sexual activities even during marriage. Finally 6 years into our relationship and 2 babies later he decided to unload the bombshell on me. What started as "I lied about sleeping with 1 girl" turned into an entire 7 years of lies he has kept from me. I feel completely betrayed. I feel like I can't believe ANYTHING that comes out of his mouth. It may be wrong but it feels like when someone lies to save themself they are denying the other person their own choice. I would NEVER would have been with my husband IF I had known the truth of his past. Which would have saved me all the pain I am feeling now. So I feel for your husband because in my opinion without trust the marriage is kind of destroyed. I also feel bad for you because it feels pretty hopeless I am sure to try to get someone to trust you again. Either way it is a loss for everyone including children when people lie for selfish reasons.


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## brownie (Jul 28, 2009)

chozengel~ I totally get what you are saying, however I am not trying to run away from the fact that I lied. I lied about being with one person prior to our relationship. SOunds like your husband was cheating on you. I haven't cheated on my husband. We have been together close to 20 years and he is the only man I have been with during our relationship. I believe there is a difference.


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## Jessica2009 (Aug 8, 2009)

I couldn't agree more! Sounds like he is making lame excuses - VERY LAME! You barely knew him when it happened, weren't married or even exclusively dating. So what? I even get why you lied about it. People always think they want to know, but they don't. And what good comes from it anyway?! I know my husband and I didn't discuss our previous relationships and sex lives - neither of us wanted to even hear about that!! We knew we had been with other people prior to meeting, but never felt the need to delve into details! 

There is definitely more to it than he is letting on. I'd ask him for a heart-to-heart. Could be his own guilt from 17 years ago, but I doubt it. When did this mistrust all start? After you told him - 7 years ago?? And he can't get past that already? You should tell him you only finally confessed to it because he was wearing you down, but you lied mainly to spare his pride and feelings. Not that lying is a good idea, but this wasn't even a betrayal! There was good reason to lie!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

My guess is that he too has a secret. Now that you've told him, he has to face the fact that he lied first.

Could you perhaps forgive him as a preemptive strike?

Regardless, what he's doing is cruel and IMO, abusive. It certainly isn't loving.

BTW, if you were broken up, it wasn't cheating. 

Insist on going to counseling with him. Tell him he has no choice if he wants the marriage to continue. If not, fill out the apartment application for him.

Call his bluff.


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## Ingrid (Aug 12, 2009)

For crying out loud, you weren't even exclusive then... you were... 19!!!! This is a petty excuse, he's just looking for ammunition, anyone who doesn't have an axe to grind would be able to overlook something that happened SO long ago (when you weren't even exclusively dating!!!). Sheez. The fact that he kept asking you over and over bringing it up again, shows he was trying to find something to get upset about. 

This is not the issue. It's a red herring. I don't care whether you lied or not, that was 7 years ago you admitted the truth anyway. The issue is, he's looking for an out, or an excuse to cheat on his own.


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## dontwanttobeme (Feb 24, 2009)

I have to say I agree that your H is using this as a sad EXCUSE. Personally, especially since this could end in divorce, I would start being EXTRA attentive to his actions. Are all of his email accounts open to your view? How about computer history? Text messages? Something is going on here...

My therapist told me that the majority of people who decide to leave their spouses cope with the situation by finding 'someone else'. Do your homework on him. I may be COMPLETELY wrong, but I think it is best to be prepared.

When my H and I were first dating he was seeing another woman. He swore to me nothing physical happened, but she told me something (at the time) that proves to me she WAS physical with him. We have been married for 9 years. I never asked him until last year...I told him I 'knew' about the 2 of them. He said WHAT and he told me I was CRAZY! I dropped it. I would never consider that cheating because we weren't exclusive at that point. 

I totally understand your situation and I think your DH is off his rocker! Sure, it may get to his pride, but come on! You have been married for so long! Why is he doing this? I think you need to look further...

I'm sorry you are going through this...good luck.


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## brownie (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks for the recent feedback. Sometimes I wish it were as simple as him hiding something from me. I don't know if it would be easier for me to deal with, but it might allow me to get pissed off enough to do something. He is so adament about saying he KNOWS something else has happened. Well, I know that is impossible since nothing ever happened. Next month will be 20 years since I have even been touched by another man. 

I know this~ I have been trying for 7 years to tell him he is wrong, to no avail. He gets me to the point of such frustration that I have told him to leave, that I want a divorce, that he needs to go find himself another woman with no children (because he says he would never raise another man's child AND because I told him that he won't get my kids (OURS). I have always been a really happy person and this has me so depressed all the time. I decided I couldn't go on like this, so I am turning it over to GOd. I am on the second day of LOVE DARE. I just finished How to Save Your Marriage Alone. 

Any more insight?


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