# Wife wants to take solo vacation.



## Dinanpower

We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


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## Enigma32

Between your lack of sex, her bringing up sleeping with other people, and her cliched line of wanting to find herself, I seriously doubt her vacation alone is really a vacation alone. More like a vacation from you. She will almost certainly be with another man on that vacation. I think that, as a man, it's time you stand your ground here.


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## Dinanpower

I have . I have told her that I dont feel comfortable with her going. She mentioned a trip i took a while back when we were first married and my friend was having a bachelor's party in Costa Rica and how she was pregnant I left her alone . She bringing that up as my solo trip and how I left her alone. She says she would never do anything like that but I cant help but think


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## Enigma32

I wouldn't have much of an issue with my wife or GF making a solo trip if things were going well. Your marriage is really kinda falling apart over there and she wants a solo trip to get away from you. Since she brought up the open marriage and you being with other ladies, my hunch is she did that to alleviate her own guilt for talking to other men. 

One more thing, notice how you bringing up something that bothered you made her put you on the defensive? That's what people do when they are really the ones in the wrong. She doesn't want the focus being on her, she wants to shift it to you. If she had a problem with your previous trip, she should have brought it up years ago, not sit on it and wait for a time to bring it up and use it against you.


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## Trident

Dinanpower said:


> She says she would never do anything like that


She wouldn't do something like that but she suggested you do something like that. 

Does that make any sense?


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## Dinanpower

Trident said:


> She wouldn't do something like that but she suggested you do something like that.
> 
> Does that make any sense?


Since we been together nothing make sense with her. She is from a different planet. Years ago I found messages from her ex on a sexual nature . She didnt start it but she engaged in it . She was only upset about me going thru the phone and thought nothing was wrong with the message and it was just me being insecure


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## Enigma32

Dinanpower said:


> Since we been together nothing make sense with her. She is from a different planet. Years ago I found messages from her ex on a sexual nature . She didnt start it but she engaged in it . *She was only upset about me going thru the phone* and thought nothing was wrong with the message and it was just me being insecure


See what she did there? Just like I mentioned before. When her behavior is called out, she turns it around on you and puts you on the defensive. Do not play this game with her.


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## Dinanpower

She says she wants my sexual craving satisfied with other girls


Enigma32 said:


> I wouldn't have much of an issue with my wife or GF making a solo trip if things were going well. Your marriage is really kinda falling apart over there and she wants a solo trip to get away from you. Since she brought up the open marriage and you being with other ladies, my hunch is she did that to alleviate her own guilt for talking to other men.
> 
> One more thing, notice how you bringing up something that bothered you made her put you on the defensive? That's what people do when they are really the ones in the wrong. She doesn't want the focus being on her, she wants to shift it to you. If she had a problem with your previous trip, she should have brought it up years ago, not sit on it and wait for a time to bring it up and use it against you.


I agree normally I would have an issue either if we were good. I agree with the defensive part . It didnt make sense . She didn't apologize tell three days later


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## Dinanpower

I agree you guys are right . I feel like for so many years I kind of been almost like an easy going guy and not letting anything bother me


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## Evinrude58

Stick a fork in it. This one is done. See an attorney or remain in an already open marriage that you don’t know is open.
Up to you.


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## SunCMars

Dinanpower said:


> I agree you guys are right . I feel like for so many years I kind of been almost like an easy going guy and not letting anything bother me


Yes, and now she is easy-going away. She gave her blessing for you to reach out to another lady and make out real-good.

That will alieve any guilt she is feeling about getting it real-good from another man while on vacation.

A woman who is in love with her man would never want to see him with another woman.
She no longer loves you.


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## Dinanpower

SunCMars said:


> Yes, and now she is easy-going away. She gave her blessing for you to reach out to another lady and make out real-good.
> 
> That will alieve any guilt she is feeling about getting it real-good from another man while on vacation.
> 
> A woman who is in love with her man would never want to see him with another woman.
> She no longer loves you.


I think so also . How could love someone and be ok with that . That would kill me


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## Evinrude58

You are being very naive. You’re ignoring the obvious. You’re going to either stand up for your own exPectations of a wife, or get walked on repeatedly. Your wife is already cheating. She has no romantic feelings for you other than possibly some real attraction to your wallet. I’m sorry. Attorney visit overdue.


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## Prodigal

Dinanpower said:


> Since we been together nothing make sense with her. She is from a different planet.


In other words, you and your wife are not compatible; probably never have been. Time to ask yourself the serious question as to why you would stay with someone like this. Sure, I can understand you're an "easygoing" guy. But you are now officially in doormat territory. 



Dinanpower said:


> Years ago I found messages from her ex on a sexual nature . She didnt start it but she engaged in it . She was only upset about me going thru the phone and thought nothing was wrong with the message and it was just me being insecure


So your wife has participated in crappy behavior before this current suggestion of an open marriage. Time to pull the plug on this woman. There's nothing left to salvage. And whether or not you are insecure is beside the point. Your wife is behaving like a skank.


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## oldshirt

So much to learn you have my young padawan. 

How are we as a society raising men that are so whipped and naive???


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## oldshirt

With that out of the way, let’s get down to the long and difficult task of bringing you up to speed in the realities of the cosmos.

Every single statement your wife has made from, getting with other women, to needing “find herself” to questioning if you have chemistry, to carrying on with an ex to wanting to travel without you all directly translate to - “I am not attracted to you, I do not respect you and I am currently or want to soon have sex with other men.” 

It is really that simple. There is no other explanation.


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## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> I agree you guys are right . I feel like for so many years I kind of been almost like an easy going guy and not letting anything bother me


Easy going is not blowing up into a tirade of profanity and just digging out the spare and changing the tire when you get a flat.

What you have been is asleep at the wheel. 

You have ignored red flags and other signs that she was becoming disinterested and disconnected and losing respect and attraction for you.

I’d also bet the farm that if you go undercover and do some sincere investigation, you will find that she has hooked up with someone(s) else or is even in an active affair now. 

I almost guarantee it.


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## farsidejunky

Enigma32 said:


> See what she did there? Just like I mentioned before. When her behavior is called out, she turns it around on you and puts you on the defensive. Do not play this game with her.


This is called DARVO.

Deny, counter Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender.

It is a classic tactic of cluster B personality disordered people and gaslighters.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Kamstel2

Tell her that you agree to separate vacations if she agrees to take a polygraph the day after she returns!!! And make the appointment BEFORE she leaves and knows it has been made

separate vacations when you are having trouble is stupid!!!


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## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> Every single statement your wife has made from, getting with other women, to needing “find herself” to questioning if you have chemistry, to carrying on with an ex to wanting to travel without you all directly translate to - “I am not attracted to you, I do not respect you and I am currently or want to soon have sex with other men.”


Let’s break these down one by one -

- women don’t ever need to find themselves. They are never lost. What they are looking for is another man and how to break it to you. 

- anytime a woman says to get with other women, it means she is basically repulsed by the thought of sex with you and has so little attraction and respect for you, she doesn’t care what you do as long as it isn’t with her.

It typically also means that she is getting her needs met elsewhere as well and doesn’t want to cheat on her OM so prefers you get it elsewhere and leave her alone.

- women that have attraction and desire (ie chemistry) with their men, don’t question it or have to ask. It is as obvious as the nose on their face. Women are in touch with feelings and don’t ever question if they have feelings or not. If they ask that question, it is because they don’t have that desire.

- women that have respect and desire for their partner and value the relationship, do not engage in sex talk with ex’s. If you are a woman’s best choice, other men disappear to them.

- wanting to have a separate vacation is either traveling to get with some other guy, or having some unencumbered time to feather her nest with the OM so she can step out of one relationship directly into the next. 

Every single one of things points directly to being done with you and either finding or continuing with someone else.


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## Kamstel2

Sorry to say this, but if you want ANY chance of saving your marriage, which I question why would you want to, I would strongly suggest that you tell her that you want to separate and move toward divorce. This will give you the position of strength, and she will start back pedaling, and SHE will do the pick me dance

Women do not view weakness and indecisiveness at attractive. Take control of the situation!!! And don’t give it up!!!!!

good luck and stay strong


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## manfromlamancha

You need to go into full stealth investigation mode. If you check her mobile phone history, you will find out who the other guy is and depending on how long ago she started flirting/messaging/sexting/meeting up with him is when your sex would have dried up - she sounds like she is rewriting marital history to justify her behaviour to herself.

How long has this been going on?


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## Cooper

She is telling you very directly she does not want to be with you. She wants you to understand and be the one to pull the plug on the marriage because she's to big of a coward to do it herself.


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## happyhusband0005

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


I am normally a person who rolls my eyes at the people who jump right to your spouse is cheating but with this situation I have a strong feeling her solo trip is not a solo trip at all.


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## frusdil

This trip to "find herself" will be anything but solo. You do realise that right?


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## Married but Happy

You can satisfy your "sexual cravings" with other women, but you needn't be married to your wife when you do so. Time to split up and move on - or she'll do it for you.


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## Dinanpower

I feel like she doesnt have much time to even cheat. Because she is either at work or home with the kids and never takes them out .


manfromlamancha said:


> You need to go into full stealth investigation mode. If you check her mobile phone history, you will find out who the other guy is and depending on how long ago she started flirting/messaging/sexting/meeting up with him is when your sex would have dried up - she sounds like she is rewriting marital history to justify her behaviour to herself.
> 
> How long has this been going on?


Inconsistent sex has been going on for years


manfromlamancha said:


> You need to go into full stealth investigation mode. If you check her mobile phone history, you will find out who the other guy is and depending on how long ago she started flirting/messaging/sexting/meeting up with him is when your sex would have dried up - she sounds like she is rewriting marital history to justify her behaviour to herself.
> 
> How long has this been going on?


How do I go about checking history


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## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> I feel like she doesnt have much time to even cheat. Because she is either at work or home with the kids and never takes them out .


Said every man who was ever cheated on.


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## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> Inconsistent sex has been going on for years


To get to this point means that she has been detaching and likely cheating for years. 

This is all new to you. You have just started to wake up to the possibility. 

She has been detaching and at least emotionally moving on for years. 

My money is on she has been getting with other guy(s) for years as well.

When a woman suggests her H hook up with other women is like someone with cancer starts coughing up blood clots or their teeth falling out - it is a very late and usually terminal sign.


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## manowar

Dinanpower said:


> she is either at work


You're getting a load of crap. Dont go along with it.

if there is another man this is the most likely place. she's also telling him how chitty her marriage is.

Get ahold of her phone. Texting activity. Check the phone records (does one number stand out?) and credit cards (what is she buying? Lingerie? hotels?) . Does she have another phone? they call them burner phones. All online activity. track it.
put a VAR in her car. Highly recommended. GPS. Consider a Private investigator.

You have to learn the rules of engagement. Your attraction level has fallen in her eyes. there are ways to raise it but it takes time and you have to understand the female psyche. the rational male may be a decent place to start. Check out red pill videos by rich cooper on female nature. Join a gym. Start working on yourself!

That behavior of hers which seems nuts is nuts to us. Men tend to be more logical and rational. Women are driven by emotion and feeling. they speak in a kind of female doubletalk. that's what you're getting. I love you but im not in love with you. has this BS come up?

It wont hurt to get dressed nicely. Go out. Doesn't matter where you go. fake it. tell her you're going out with friends. That's all. keep it short. learn how the 180 works. It may be in order. the worse thing you can do is be a nice guy. whatever you do do not buy flowers .. And put your foot down about the vacation. Do not pay for that vacation. Start cutting back on stuff she relies on you for. 

She'll start to see changes in you.the advice you've gotten here is pretty good.


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## Marc878

Dinanpower said:


> I feel like she doesnt have much time to even cheat. Because she is either at work or home with the kids and never takes them out .


Famous last words.

Go online and check your phone bill. Best place to start.


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## manowar

Kamstel2 said:


> Women do not view weakness and indecisiveness at attractive. Take control of the situation!!! And don’t give it up!!!!!


This is Key. Understand this.


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## ConanHub

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


Your marriage is over, she is more than likely cheating, do your due diligence with covering your legal bases and, if you need it, investigate with a PI or whatever legal resources you can bring to determine the extent of your wife's cheating.


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## Luminous

oldshirt said:


> So much to learn you have my young padawan.
> 
> How are we as a society raising men that are so whipped and naive???


There is an answer to that, but on here it opens a Pandora's Box of heated criticisms and accusations if it ever gets brought out in the light...


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## Enigma32

Dinanpower said:


> I feel like she doesnt have much time to even cheat. Because she is either at work or home with the kids and never takes them out .
> 
> Inconsistent sex has been going on for years
> 
> How do I go about checking history


My ex was cheating on me when I thought she couldn't possibly find time as well. She would skip out on sleep 3 days a week and spend time with her other guy before she went to work. Instead of getting 8 hours sleep those days, she might get 3 or 4. She was "going to sleep" at her normal time so I thought nothing of it. If people wanna cheat, they will find the time.


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## DownByTheRiver

I think you should definitely tell her that since you're married hasn't been going well you don't feel comfortable with this solo vacation and that if she really wants to get away from you and try that that you are not agreeing to an open marriage but that you would agree to a trial separation and consider divorce. Ask her to please do things in the right order.


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## manfromlamancha

Dinanpower said:


> I feel like she doesnt have much time to even cheat. Because she is either at work or home with the kids and never takes them out .
> 
> Inconsistent sex has been going on for years
> 
> How do I go about checking history


There is a thread here in the libraries on how to investigate and check phone messages etc - basically you need to get hold of her phone and also the history of calls and messages from your phone operator and look for anomalies or numbers contacted a high number of times and for long periods too.


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## Dinanpower

manfromlamancha said:


> There is a thread here in the libraries on how to investigate and check phone messages etc - basically you need to get hold of her phone and also the history of calls and messages from your phone operator and look for anomalies or numbers contacted a high number of times and for long periods too.


I want to get a hold but I dont know the password . And I think she uses her retina


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## DownByTheRiver

It doesn't sound like it matters whether or not you know if she's cheating because you know she's not happy and is willing to open the marriage up. why do you think she would rather go that route than just to get a divorce? Do you have children?


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## Dinanpower

DownByTheRiver said:


> It doesn't sound like it matters whether or not you know if she's cheating because you know she's not happy and is willing to open the marriage up. why do you think she would rather go that route than just to get a divorce? Do you have children?


We have 2 children daughters and a house together


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## sokillme

First I would change the picture of your Avatar so you can be anonymous. 

So this doesn't sound good, seems like she has checked out. You should ask her if she wants to stay married.


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## DownByTheRiver

It sounds like you're going to have to initiate the divorce. so many people think they need to stay together because of the kids but the truth is the kids know everything and don't miss anything and it's more upsetting to them to be in a house of discord than to have parents in two houses.


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## Dinanpower

sokillme said:


> First I would change the picture of your Avatar so you can be anonymous.
> 
> So this doesn't sound good, seems like she has checked out. You should ask her if she wants to stay married.


I asked her she says yes . She says she doesnt want a divorce or for her kids to grow up in a broken home


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Brother, she is one gone chick, give her her freedom, and this will set you free,too. She has HUGE issues. You seem codependent, too. Focus on you, get into IC, hit the gym, and look forward not back. What she proposes would never be proposed in a healthy marriage.

you deserve better sir.


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## Dinanpower

I'm trying to give her freedom. I asked her does she want a


No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Brother, she is one gone chick, give her her freedom, and this will set you free,too. She has HUGE issues. You seem codependent, too. Focus on you, get into IC, hit the gym, and look forward not back. What she proposes would never be proposed in a healthy marriage.
> 
> you deserve better sir.


 I asked her what does she want . I said if you dont love me like that. Let's just divorce but she keeps saying she doesnt want to divorce . I think she only wants to stay for the kids . I dont want to be the one to break up the family.


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## Prodigal

Dinanpower said:


> She says she doesnt want a divorce or for her kids to grow up in a broken home


Classic cake eater reply. And the only reason I'm bothering to respond is the Chiefs are losing the Super Bowl.

Seriously, dude, I'm a woman. And I'm going to tell you straight up that your wife is playing you for a chump. SERIOUSLY.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Dinanpower said:


> I'm trying to give her freedom. I asked her does she want a
> 
> I asked her what does she want . I said if you dont love me like that. Let's just divorce but she keeps saying she doesnt want to divorce . I think she only wants to stay for the kids . I dont want to be the one to break up the family.


No she is a cake eater. You need to grow a pair. Have her served, and move out of this. Not healthy for you and by no means is this healthy for children. Consider reading “No more Mr Nice Guy“ and “Grow a Pair”. These books would be most beneficial.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Prodigal said:


> Classic cake eater reply. And the only reason I'm bothering to respond is the Chiefs are losing the Super Bowl.
> 
> Seriously, dude, I'm a woman. And I'm going to tell you straight up that your wife is playing you for a chump. SERIOUSLY.


Me too.


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## Wolfman1968

Dinanpower said:


> I asked her she says yes . She says she doesnt want a divorce or for her kids to grow up in a broken home


No. She essentially said she wanted to COHABITATE. She DOESN'T want to be married. Being married means you are emotionally, sexually, and intimately involved with that person. None of her demands of "open marriage", "separate vacations", "rare sex", etc. supports that. May as well be a college dorm roommate.


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## Wolfman1968

Dinanpower said:


> I'm trying to give her freedom. I asked her does she want a
> 
> I asked her what does she want . I said if you dont love me like that. Let's just divorce but she keeps saying she doesnt want to divorce . I think she only wants to stay for the kids . I dont want to be the one to break up the family.


Dude, she already broke up the marriage. The only think you would be doing is breaking up the housing arrangement.


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## manowar

you are new to all of this. it may take a while for it to sink in but you have to up your game. she doesnt want this. she wants that. What do you want? this is a classic case of she wants to have her fun and come home to the nice safe backstop that you provide. She has fun with the boyfriend, you support it, and you deal with all of her crap. Let the boyfriend support her. He'll probably run and run fast after the affair is exposed. First order of business - find out if she's stepping out. Most here think she is. Read other stories on this site. there are plenty. it may open your eyes. Nice Guys get run over.


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## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> I'm trying to give her freedom. I asked her does she want a
> 
> I asked her what does she want . I said if you dont love me like that. Let's just divorce but she keeps saying she doesnt want to divorce . I think she only wants to stay for the kids .


You are partially right but still missing the point here.

She wants to remain married because she wants to continue living in the house, wants you to continue paying the bills and wants you to be a live-in babysitter when she gets together with other men. And she wants you to be there to fix leaky faceted, kill spiders and be at her beck and call in the middle of the night when she gets a flat tire on her way home from her boyfriend’s house. 

HOWEVER, she does not love, respect or desire you sexually.

She wants you as an errand boy, bill payer and assistant child raiser.

She wants you available as a Husband Appliance , but she does not want you as a lover and wants to screw other men.

Are you or are you not OK with that arrangement?


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## manfromlamancha

Dinanpower said:


> I want to get a hold but I dont know the password . And I think she uses her retina


You can get info on numbers called, how many calls, for how long from your operator - are you both on a joint plan?


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## manfromlamancha

She only wants to stay for her well being - her creature comforts, how she will appear in public (she wants to be seen as a good mother etc). I am not sure that she even cares about what it would do to the children. Its just too uncomfortable for her to divorce.

This way she gets to have her cake and eat it too (stability from you and sex/thrills from other guys). Do not let her get away with stupid answers like I do not want a divorce but want to go on vacations alone, want you to have sex with others (which actually means she wants to have sex with others). You need to open your eyes and now, more than ever, think clearly. If it does not make sense to you then do not buy it. When you initiate divorce you will see her true self coming out even more clearly.


By the way, her boyfriend is taking her away for her birthday (hence wanting to go on a "solo" vacation on her birthday weekend).
Is she over friendly with a male co-worker or somebody at her gym?

What would the financial situation look like if you two got divorced? Does she have a good job?


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## Marc878

Dinanpower said:


> I asked her she says yes . She says she doesnt want a divorce or for her kids to grow up in a broken home


She wants to eat cake.


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## happyhusband0005

Dinanpower said:


> I'm trying to give her freedom. I asked her does she want a
> 
> I asked her what does she want . I said if you dont love me like that. Let's just divorce but she keeps saying she doesnt want to divorce . I think she only wants to stay for the kids . I dont want to be the one to break up the family.


If you don't want to divorce, then get on board with an open marriage. Thats what you're looking at whether you want it or not.


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## FlaviusMaximus

"I want to find myself" = "I want to find myself with someone else."


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## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> I asked her she says yes . She says she doesnt want a divorce or for her kids to grow up in a broken home


No mother of minor children actually wants to divorce. 

All women want a safe and comfortable two-parent home raising her offspring.

The only women that actually want to get away from the marital home and the provider are women being severely abused and are fearing for the life and safety of the children.

Or if they have a solid commitment from a superior man with a lot more resources to provide for them and kids. 

All others want the H to continue providing for and provisioning for them and the kids.

HOWEVER - WANTING TO REMAIN UNDER THE ROOF DOES NOT EQUAL LOVING AND DESIRING THE H.

Nor does it mean they don’t intend to screw other men.

This is what people mean when they say having cake and eating it too.

It may not be that she wants to leave you for the other man. It means she wants BOTH living in the marital home with you paying bills, taking care of the kids and unclogging the toilet - while having fun and excitement and orgasms with the other man(s) while you babysit. 

That is her end game and strategy here and thus far you are falling hook-line-and-sinker for it.


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## VladDracul

oldshirt said:


> Let’s break these down one by one -


Oldshirt my man, I think maybe you and I attended the same relationship school. If I weren't so old, I'd think you might have even taught the class.


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## Dinanpower

manfromlamancha said:


> She only wants to stay for her well being - her creature comforts, how she will appear in public (she wants to be seen as a good mother etc). I am not sure that she even cares about what it would do to the children. Its just too uncomfortable for her to divorce.
> 
> This way she gets to have her cake and eat it too (stability from you and sex/thrills from other guys). Do not let her get away with stupid answers like I do not want a divorce but want to go on vacations alone, want you to have sex with others (which actually means she wants to have sex with others). You need to open your eyes and now, more than ever, think clearly. If it does not make sense to you then do not buy it. When you initiate divorce you will see her true self coming out even more clearly.
> 
> 
> By the way, her boyfriend is taking her away for her birthday (hence wanting to go on a "solo" vacation on her birthday weekend).
> Is she over friendly with a male co-worker or somebody at her gym?
> 
> What would the financial situation look like if you two got divorced? Does she have a good job?


She is friendly at work with a co worker but he cant take her they work the same weekend they both cant get off the same weekend. She makes about the same money as me . Difference of about 9 0r 10k


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## oldshirt

VladDracul said:


> Oldshirt my man, I think maybe you and I attended the same relationship school. If I weren't so old, I'd think you might have even taught the class.


I wish I could say it was book knowledge from studying and paying attention in class.

But unfortunately a lot of it has been from first experience while attending the School of Hard Knocks.


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## FlaviusMaximus

Dinanpower said:


> .... And how she feels like we lost our connection.


Why not ask her how having an open marriage or taking a vacation with another man helps regain your connection?
This is just more BS along with "finding yourself."

If I were you I'd tell her to go ahead and have her vacation and divorce papers will be waiting when she gets back, better yet, have them draw up before...


----------



## sokillme

Dinanpower said:


> I asked her she says yes . She says she doesnt want a divorce or for her kids to grow up in a broken home


I would divorce, to hell what she wants.


----------



## Marc878

Tell her to go just don’t bother coming back.


----------



## Dinanpower

manfromlamancha said:


> You can get info on numbers called, how many calls, for how long from your operator - are you both on a joint plan?


No separate


----------



## manfromlamancha

Do you have access to her bill/operator? Who pays the bill?


----------



## Dinanpower

manfromlamancha said:


> Do you have access to her bill/operator? Who pays the bill?


No I think its paperless. She has at and t. She pays the bill


----------



## Dinanpower

manfromlamancha said:


> Do you have access to her bill/operator? Who pays the bill?


I need concrete proof before I make a move . I got a lot invested in this . Kids house investments


----------



## SunCMars

Dinanpower said:


> I'm trying to give her freedom.
> I asked her what does she want .
> I said if you dont love me like that. Let's just divorce but she keeps saying she doesn't want to divorce . I think she only wants to stay for the kids . I don't want to be the one to break up the family.


She wants _the order of things hapnin'_ to go down, as she sees fit.

To her, you are still handy, but you are not dandy.
No, not her candy man.

She wants more than you offer.
This, on top of what she gets from you.
.......................................................................................................

In due time......

Once she finds her groove, you will be dropped, flat.

Her wheels are now in motion, her body is not yet airborne. 

She is biding her time, she has a plan.

Once she takes flight, her landing gear will soon drop, and you will find her in someone else's heated hanger.

...........................................................................................................
Or, at some point in time she wants to be free of men, and their games.
She will use em' up and then toss em', while calling..... next!
............................................................................................................

I do agree with your assessment, Momma ain't gonna abandon her children.

She wants that icing on the cake that you provide for her, hence her denial of wanting a divorce.
She has a husband, she wants to add another lover into the mix.
She wants an 'open' marriage. Her legs being open for others, your tool free to roam and ream.
She likely has toxic girlfriends who are leading her down this path.


----------



## Girl_power

She wants the security of the marriage and the freedom to live her life how she wants. DO NOT LET THAT HAPPEN. Because she will cheat on you, she will wait until she finds someone better then she will leave when the kids are out of the house. 

My suggestion is that you tell her she is either in or out. And if she’s in, she will be all in, do therapy with you, work on your sex life, date nights, and no vacations alone.


----------



## Dinanpower

SunCMars said:


> She wants _the order of things hapnin'_ to go down, as she sees fit.
> 
> To her, you are still handy, but you are not dandy.
> No, not her candy man.
> 
> She wants more than you offer.
> This, on top of what she gets from you.
> .......................................................................................................
> 
> In due time......
> 
> Once she finds her groove, you will be dropped, flat.
> 
> Her wheels are now in motion, her body is not yet airborne.
> 
> She is biding her time, she has a plan.
> 
> Once she takes flight, her landing gear will soon drop, and you will find her in someone else's heated hanger.
> 
> ...........................................................................................................
> Or, at some point in time she wants to be free of men, and their games.
> She will use em' up and then toss em', while calling..... next!
> ............................................................................................................
> 
> I do agree with your assessment, Momma ain't gonna abandon her children.
> 
> She wants that icing on the cake that you provide for her, hence her denial of wanting a divorce.
> She has a husband, she wants to add another lover into the mix.
> She wants an 'open' marriage. Her legs being open for others, your tool free to roam and ream.
> She likely has toxic girlfriends who are leading her down this path.


I feel like there a toxic friend who putting these ideas in her head


----------



## Dinanpower

Girl_power said:


> She wants the security of the marriage and the freedom to live her life how she wants. DO NOT LET THAT HAPPEN. Because she will cheat on you, she will wait until she finds someone better then she will leave when the kids are out of the house.
> 
> My suggestion is that you tell her she is either in or out. And if she’s in, she will be all in, do therapy with you, work on your sex life, date nights, and no vacations alone.


We are working on the sex life . Trying to spice things up and doing more date nights but she seems to think she needs this vacation for her own sanity to escape the norm. I just find it fishy that she choose the bday weekend


----------



## SunCMars

Dinanpower said:


> We been married for 8 years and *we barely have sex*. I would say once every couple months.


What are you getting out of this marriage, other than paying bills and helping with the children?

I think you are ready to pull the plug on this sham of a marriage.


----------



## SunCMars

Dinanpower said:


> We are working on the sex life . Trying to spice things up and doing more date nights but she seems to think she needs this vacation for her own sanity to escape the norm. I just find it fishy that she choose the bday weekend


I agree on the birthday weekend.
Sounds like a friendly gesture from someone.

Or, she is treating herself, nicely.

Is this her 30th, or 40th birthday? That would give it more mental significance.


----------



## Dinanpower

SunCMars said:


> What are you getting out of this marriage, other than paying bills and helping with the children?
> 
> I think you are ready to pull the plug on this sham of a marriage.


I think your right. I'm not getting much when you think of it.


----------



## jlg07

Dinanpower said:


> I need concrete proof before I make a move . I got a lot invested in this . Kids house investments


Hire a PI for a few weeks, and ESPECIALLY if she goes on that vacation.
I bet you will get proof fairly quickly.


----------



## Girl_power

Dinanpower said:


> We are working on the sex life . Trying to spice things up and doing more date nights but she seems to think she needs this vacation for her own sanity to escape the norm. I just find it fishy that she choose the bday weekend


Is she going with friends or really by herself? Where does she want to go?

I think it’s fine to take a weekend get away to a spa for the weekend by yourself. But if she wants to go to Cabo... no.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I agree with the PI


----------



## SunCMars

manfromlamancha said:


> I agree with the PI


I guess that depends on where she is going on vacation.
To somewhere warm, say Florida, or the Bahamas?

And, whether he can afford it.


----------



## Rob_1

Dinanpower said:


> I need concrete proof before I make a move . I got a lot invested in this . Kids house investments





Dinanpower said:


> I feel like there a toxic friend who putting these ideas in her head


Excuses, excuses, excuses. By now you should know that your wife:
1. Have no respect for you
2. Is not attracted to you
3. Does not really love you (she's not in love with you)
4. Most likely have someone else, or someone is already on the wings for her.
5. Wants to stay with you. For convenience, children or whatever reasons she has to stay with you, but YOU, until she has her ducks in a row, and she then dumps you.

You:
1. are afraid.
2. are lacking in self confidence, self worth, and self respect.
3. Seen to be codependent.

Dude: with just the fact that your wife doesn't want to have sex with you, and is telling you to see chicks on the side, says it all. You do not need proof of anything. This marriage is dead. You should file for divorce.

Why are you asking her if she want to continue in the relationship? YOU are giving her the power to decide over your life (that's **** up man). Man up, get the courage to just hand her the papers. You will be divorcing her not your children. Much better for them two happy homes than a miserable one. otherwise, that's the future of your children if you don't man up.


----------



## Dinanpower

SunCMars said:


> I agree on the birthday weekend.
> Sounds like a friendly gesture from someone.
> 
> Or, she is treating herself, nicely.
> 
> Is this her 30th, or 40th birthday? That would give it more mental significance.


No 36th birthday . She wants to get a


jlg07 said:


> Hire a PI for a few weeks, and ESPECIALLY if she goes on that vacation.
> I bet you will get proof fairly quickly.


Would the pi follow her on the vacation. How much does that cost regularly


----------



## SunCMars

When you think about it....

Marriages go stale, the latest divorce statistics indicate that 42-45% of first marriages end in divorce.

At least your wife has been forthcoming in what she is up to.









Divorce Statistics 2020 | Divorce Rate in America







canterburylawgroup.com


----------



## jlg07

Not sure of the costs for a PI -- you'd have to call around. Depending on WHERE she goes for vacation, they may have affiliated PI's in that location, and they could start when she lands (if flying) or they could get her when she checks in to the hotel (you'd have to know that info though I think).


----------



## Lostinthought61

if you know where is going on vacation you could probably hire a PI there, so you can save money...but it may cost you a couple thousand depends what she does and where she goes...but it is worth it if you need hard proof


----------



## Evinrude58

Can you accept that your wife wants you to see other women because she’s seeing other men? That she wants to go solo doesn’t mean solo, it means WITHOUT you?
That she wants a stable home and man to help in life, but someone else to have sex with and spend her emotions on?

Until you accept these things, you won’t be able to make progress with your situation with your wife.

I’m sorry. You need to know the truth. It’s a hurtful truth. BTDT

nobody is going on a vacation by themselves. She’s going with or meeting someone. You’re wanting definitive proof.
You’ve gotten the most definitive proof there is ALREADY.
Serve her a birthday divorce.


----------



## marko polo

Spouses genuinely committed to one another do not travel solo for a vacation.

She is meeting someone there.

If you know what hotel she will be staying at have the divorce papers served to her there.


----------



## manowar

Dinanpower said:


> I need concrete proof before I make a move . I got a lot invested in this . Kids house investments


Good! You have to do the leg work. Do your due diligence and not let on to her what you are doing. Act as if everything is normal.

Put a VAR in her car for starters. do a google search. There is info here on VARs as well. Is she going out weekends with girlfriends known as girls night out. I have a feeling she is. Another big Red Flag.

She needs your mutual incomes most likely and enjoys her secret life.


----------



## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> I need concrete proof before I make a move . I got a lot invested in this . Kids house investments


Her telling you to get with other chicks and wanting to go on vacation by herself is proof.

But if you need to have pictures and documents in your hand before you can accept it,, then the PI to follow her on vacation is worth considering. 

You’ll probably have pictures in your hand within the first day. 

If you go that route, you need to completely back off and continue to play the naive beta boy and go along with her solo trip.

You’ll need her to think she has you completely bamboozled and ensure she has the confidence so she doesn’t try to cover her tracks that well.


----------



## Evinrude58

I agree, but in the interest of expense, I’d just VAR her car.
Thing is, there’s no evidence that will change his mind about trying to nice her back. He’s gonna play the gentle pick me dance no matter what kind of hard rock cheating tune she’s playing. 
There’s really no need for proof here as we all know, but OP needs a video .... 
I agree, the trip will provide if needed.


----------



## oldshirt

But the truth is, she is already so detached and disinvested in the marriage, a sincere investigation on your own will probably give you all the proof you need if you actually open your mind and open your eyes to look for it and believe it when you see it. 

If you put some kind of voice activated recorder and GPS tracker in her car, you’ll probably have your answer by this time tomorrow. 

If you can hack her phone and/or computers and find any hidden email accounts or hook up apps or secret social media accounts etc, you may even have your answer tonight. 

You have been asleep at the wheel for a long time and have ignored or overlooked a ton of signs and red flags. 

If you can continue to appear asleep, she will not go very deep underground or cover her tracks well and it will be easier to find the proof you need. 

DO NOT just ask her if she’s cheating or show that you are getting suspicious. She will just say no and then she will go underground and delete messages and cover her tracks.


----------



## oldshirt

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree, but in the interest of expense, I’d just VAR her car.
> Thing is, there’s no evidence that will change his mind about trying to nice her back. He’s gonna play the gentle pick me dance no matter what kind of hard rock cheating tune she’s playing.
> There’s really no need for proof here as we all know, but OP needs a video ....
> I agree, the trip will provide if needed.


He seems like one that will need hard photo evidence from a professional to break his denial. 

Once he sees pictures/video of her making out with some dude or walking into a motel room room and coming out a with some guy an hour or two later, he won’t be able to do mental gymnastics to convince himself they’re just having a “rough patch” anymore.


----------



## AandM

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


Imma gonna skip over many pages of "you're an idiot" to post this. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! For teh WINZ!

Seriously, man...

**** it, just seriously.


----------



## Evinrude58

OP we feel your pain.... not funny in the least. We just hope you can snap out of denial and get past this torture as soon as possible. You are needing the mental 2x4 for sure. She’s gone and most likely her absence will be a gift that you hate now, but will treasure later. She sounds like a real poor specimen of the female persuasion.


----------



## Dinanpower

Girl_power said:


> Is she going with friends or really by herself? Where does she want to go?
> 
> I think it’s fine to take a weekend get away to a spa for the weekend by yourself. But if she wants to go to Cabo... no.


I dont know where she hasnt booked anything


manowar said:


> Good! You have to do the leg work. Do your due diligence and not let on to her what you are doing. Act as if everything is normal.
> 
> Put a VAR in her car for starters. do a google search. There is info here on VARs as well. Is she going out weekends with girlfriends known as girls night out. I have a feeling she is. Another big Red Flag.
> 
> She needs your mutual incomes most likely and enjoys her secret life.


She doesnt go out on weekends . She pretty much stays home with the kids. They are in activities so Monday thru Friday . She get off work at 2 or 3 . Picks up 1 daughter at 245 and the other 3. Then she is home with them. I have more time to cheat than she does


----------



## Dinanpower

oldshirt said:


> Her telling you to get with other chicks and wanting to go on vacation by herself is proof.
> 
> But if you need to have pictures and documents in your hand before you can accept it,, then the PI to follow her on vacation is worth considering.
> 
> You’ll probably have pictures in your hand within the first day.
> 
> If you go that route, you need to completely back off and continue to play the naive beta boy and go along with her solo trip.
> 
> You’ll need her to think she has you completely bamboozled and ensure she has the confidence so she doesn’t try to cover her tracks that well.


Sounds like a plan . She still hasnt booked anything yet. It's in April


----------



## Dinanpower

oldshirt said:


> But the truth is, she is already so detached and disinvested in the marriage, a sincere investigation on your own will probably give you all the proof you need if you actually open your mind and open your eyes to look for it and believe it when you see it.
> 
> If you put some kind of voice activated recorder and GPS tracker in her car, you’ll probably have your answer by this time tomorrow.
> 
> If you can hack her phone and/or computers and find any hidden email accounts or hook up apps or secret social media accounts etc, you may even have your answer tonight.
> 
> You have been asleep at the wheel for a long time and have ignored or overlooked a ton of signs and red flags.
> 
> If you can continue to appear asleep, she will not go very deep underground or cover her tracks well and it will be easier to find the proof you need.
> 
> DO NOT just ask her if she’s cheating or show that you are getting suspicious. She will just say no and then she will go underground and delete messages and cover her tracks.


I'm looking up vars now . No need for the GPS . She has no time


----------



## Evinrude58

So would she allow you to borrow her phone? Does she stay on it a lot or guard it? Thousands of men say “she doesn’t have time to cheat”. I assure you that’s not the case. The VAR under the seat will get you what you need to know. Maybe give you some closure.


----------



## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> I'm looking up vars now . No need for the GPS . She has no time


Let me tell you some first hand experience from my past to address this “no time” issue.

Trysts with married women can take place in literally minutes.

In my youth I was with several married women. Some of those affairs lasted several years. A couple of those women are still with their husbands to this day and their extracurricular activities were never discovered.

Some of them stopped by my house on their way home from work.

Some on their way to the grocery store.

One literally called me on her way to taking the kids to school and literally said she only had 5 minutes and when she got to my house she walked in the door and was dropping her clothes on the way to the bedroom and was leaving the house in more like 7 minutes and got home before her H had even finished his breakfast.

I can go on but you get the point. Literally minutes.

Single women date and have dinners and walks in the park and moonlight strolls on the beach.

Cheating wives already have a husband and a home and family etc. once they have decided to hook up all they need is a place where no one is looking and a few minutes.

This can be in the car in a city park or the back of a mall parking lot. It can be a motel room on the outskirts of town. It can be a locked office at work or even a store room or even your own home when your at work or out with buddies and the kids are in school or at a friends. 

Real life affairs aren’t romantic and bittersweet and glamorous like portrayed on TV. They are down and dirty and opportunistic when they have a few minutes and are out sight for moment in time.

I assume she has a phone which means she can sit on the couch beside you and chat with him at will. She can be arranging her next shag with him while she is taking a crap in the bathroom or has the water running in the shower.

They often talk in the car on the way to and from work, that is why the VAR in the car is so effective. 

But the thing you need to understand is, if she has time to get gas in the car or time to pick up a kid from school, she has time to hook up.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Dinanpower said:


> I need concrete proof before I make a move . I got a lot invested in this . Kids house investments


You may not have concrete proof that she is having an affair, but you have concrete proof she is NOT committed to your marriage, or to you for that matter. That's enough for me to call it quits.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Dinanpower said:


> I'm looking up vars now . No need for the GPS . She has no time


My friend, you need to read the rule book on how to get evidence:

Weightlifter's Standard Evidence Post

(I keep in in my signature line for a reason.)


----------



## oldshirt

Wolfman1968 said:


> You may not have concrete proof that she is having an affair, but you have concrete proof she is NOT committed to your marriage, or to you for that matter. That's enough for me to call it quits.


He is just starting to wake up. 

She has been disengaging for years and has basically detached and thrown in the towel on him and the marriage. 

Good chance she’s even with some other guy(s).

But for him, it started last Tuesday.


----------



## Dinanpower

Evinrude58 said:


> So would she allow you to borrow her phone? Does she stay on it a lot or guard it? Thousands of men say “she doesn’t have time to cheat”. I assure you that’s not the case. The VAR under the seat will get you what you need to know. Maybe give you some closure.


That's what I'm hoping to find. I need closure. Assumptions wont get me anywhere


----------



## Torninhalf

No time to cheat? I’m sorry but that will be your demise. 10 minutes in a parked car at lunch is all the time she needs.


----------



## GC1234

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


There may be someone in the wings for her already. She is planning ahead so it's not so bad when she decides to cheat. You'll be her Plan B once she's done f**** this other guy (or woman). 

Did something happen that you are in a bad part of your marriage?


----------



## Dinanpower

GC1234 said:


> There may be someone in the wings for her already. She is planning ahead so it's not so bad when she decides to cheat. You'll be her Plan B once she's done f**** this other guy (or woman).
> 
> Did something happen that you are in a bad part of your marriage?


Not really . She said she was thinking for awhile about it because she was having issue with her body after the first baby . And then she brought it up a month and half ago


----------



## Lostinthought61

Dinanpower said:


> Not really . She said she was thinking for awhile about it because she was having issue with her body after the first baby . And then she brought it up a month and half ago


this does not compute...clearly she is planning on meeting someone and she expects you to just sit there and take it...enough is enough, if you want to get proof you can but stop allowing her to dictate the rules in this relationship, tell fine go on your solo vacation and when you get the divorce papers should be ready for you to sign .

PS time to take back your balls, or spend the rest of your life keeping them in your wife's handbag.


----------



## GC1234

Dinanpower said:


> Not really . She said she was thinking for awhile about it because she was having issue with her body after the first baby . And then she brought it up a month and half ago


Oh ok. I still think she has a side prospect. Do not allow her to do this.


----------



## Dinanpower

GC1234 said:


> Oh ok. I still think she has a side prospect. Do not allow her to do this.


I won't . But I think the var will give some kind of info. I think if I could get into her what's app it would give the most info.


----------



## GC1234

Dinanpower said:


> I won't . But I think the var will give some kind of info. I think if I could get into her what's app it would give the most info.


100%. They use the Whatsapp to hide texts. Can't be traced like on a regular phone.


----------



## Girl_power

Wait I’m confused. Why won’t you let her go for a weekend getaway if it’s by herself? I think where she wants to go and with who matters.


----------



## Evinrude58

Girl_power said:


> Wait I’m confused. Why won’t you let her go for a weekend getaway if it’s by herself? I think where she wants to go and with who matters.


Probably because she’s trying to get him to have sex with other women, won’t have sex with him, and now wants to go in a vacation by herself and he smells a rat.
He should, it’s a really foul smell....


----------



## Evinrude58

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage .* My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry * . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and *we barely have sex*. I would say once every couple months. But then* she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls* and* she mentioned the idea of an open marriage.* *She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health * . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


it is very clear to anyone that has experience with divorce and adultery that OP’s wife has checked out of this marriage, has guilt over her own cheating, and plans to cheat more.

the “I need to find myself” is translated from cheaterspeak into: “*I need to* get out of your sight for enough time to *find* an opportunity for great sex with *myself*! and my affair partner.”
I need to find myself= I need space= I love you but I’m not in love with you= I want to **** someone else and I’ll Keep you thinking we still have a relationship long enough to monkey branch on out of here.


----------



## Mybabysgotit

Dinanpower said:


> I'm looking up vars now . No need for the GPS . She has no time


Stop taking this crazy advice. If you EVER find yourself needing to spy on your spouse, YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS ALREADY DEAD!! Save your time and money and pack it up. The relationship ran it's course...it's done!! Every relationship runs it course sooner or later, don't worry about it, move on to the next great adventure. Your kids will be better off in the long run.


----------



## Trident

Mybabysgotit said:


> Stop taking this crazy advice.


Knowledge is power. Some people aren't easily convinced and want something solid before sticking a fork in a lifelong commitment, the thread starter is clearly one of them.

Suggesting that the advice given by others is "crazy" and should be disregarded is not only irresponsible but it may be against the forum Terms of Use.


----------



## jlg07

Mybabysgotit said:


> Stop taking this crazy advice. If you EVER find yourself needing to spy on your spouse, YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS ALREADY DEAD!! Save your time and money and pack it up. The relationship ran it's course...it's done!! Every relationship runs it course sooner or later, don't worry about it, move on to the next great adventure. Your kids will be better off in the long run.


HE said he needs evidence for himself, hence the suggestions.


----------



## Dinanpower

Girl_power said:


> Wait I’m confused. Why won’t you let her go for a weekend getaway if it’s by herself? I think where she wants to go and with who matters.


It's a solo vacation but we are having no intimacy in our marriage


----------



## DesertRat1978

First, if you try to impede this solo vacation you show a lack of trust. Your lack of trust may be warranted but few things get folks more on the defensive than this. Also, if you fear that she is having an affair opposing this vacation will motivate her to cover her tracks even more so. 

Second, opposing this is not going to help your marriage. It may be over already. It is possible that she needs time away.

As for the lack of sex, that is not a simple item. It could be a lot of things. Hormones, lack of attraction, etc. I would ask.. has it been this way since the beginning or a more recent phenomenon?


----------



## Dinanpower

Trident said:


> Knowledge is power. Some people aren't easily convinced and want something solid before sticking a fork in a lifelong commitment, the thread starter is clearly one of them.
> 
> Suggesting that the advice given by others is "crazy" and should be disregarded is not only irresponsible but it may be against the forum Terms of Use.


Thanks that's how I feel . I can't divorce off of assumptions


DesertRat1978 said:


> First, if you try to impede this solo vacation you show a lack of trust. Your lack of trust may be warranted but few things get folks more on the defensive than this. Also, if you fear that she is having an affair opposing this vacation will motivate her to cover her tracks even more so.
> 
> Second, opposing this is not going to help your marriage. It may be over already. It is possible that she needs time away.
> 
> As for the lack of sex, that is not a simple item. It could be a lot of things. Hormones, lack of attraction, etc. I would ask.. has it been this way since the beginning or a more recent phenomenon?


The inconsistency with sex has been like this since the beginning. It's not that I don't trust her. Its just the timing of the situation . Like the idea of open marriage was mentioned and this and that . I feel like she at times mentions shes not much of a sexual person. Could be a factor in why she wants me to go out and have sex with others .


----------



## DesertRat1978

Dinanpower said:


> The inconsistency with sex has been like this since the beginning. It's not that I don't trust her. Its just the timing of the situation . Like the idea of open marriage was mentioned and this and that . I feel like she at times mentions shes not much of a sexual person. Could be a factor in why she wants me to go out and have sex with others .


Do you have any ideas as to why she has such a low sex drive?


----------



## oldshirt

Gf


Mybabysgotit said:


> Stop taking this crazy advice. If you EVER find yourself needing to spy on your spouse, YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS ALREADY DEAD!! Save your time and money and pack it up. The relationship ran it's course...it's done!! Every relationship runs it course sooner or later, don't worry about it, move on to the next great adventure. Your kids will be better off in the long run.


if Your parents are relatively healthy and robust and living independently and attending all your family functions and having a good time etc etc 

And then one day out of the blue, your mother calls and says your dad woke up having chest pain and then he collapsed unconscious and she couldn’t feel a pulse and didn’t think he was breathing so she called 911 and told you that the paramedics were doing CPR and shocking him etc, but that he wasn’t waking up are in the way to the hospital- 

When you get to their house, the ambulance has already left and the neighbors tell you he looked dead and that they were still doing CPR. 

Do you accept that he is dead now?

Or do you wait until the doctor comes out to the waiting area, takes off his surgical mask and tells you that they have done everything that they can but he is gone?

Or do you need to see his body pale and lifeless on the treatment table with tubes and hoses coming out of every part of his body and see the flatline yourself on the heart monitor?

The OP has been asleep for a long time. He is just starting to wake up and rub the crust out of his eyes and see that there might be a problem here. 

We are the neighbors here saying we thing the marriage looks dead from our living room window across the street. 

But is any going to believe our assessment?

SHOULD any believe our assessment from our own living room across the country???

Or do people need to hear it from the doctor, hold the death certificate in their hand, and see the cold, lifeless body on the table and the flatline on the heart monitor themselves?


----------



## Dinanpower

DesertRat1978 said:


> Do you have any ideas as to why she has such a low sex drive?


Not really . It wasnt really that much when we were dating either. Got worst after kids


----------



## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> Thanks that's how I feel . I can't divorce off of assumptions
> The inconsistency with sex has been like this since the beginning. It's not that I don't trust her. Its just the timing of the situation . Like the idea of open marriage was mentioned and this and that . I feel like she at times mentions shes not much of a sexual person. Could be a factor in why she wants me to go out and have sex with others .


No, it really doesn’t work that way. 

You may feel like she has no sex drive so she is offering you this as a favor. 

But people with actual low sex drives but that want to remain with their partners do not offer their partners to get with other people because they know that once their partner starts hooking up with someone else, they will want to be with that person and will dump them.

They only people that offer their partner to sleep with others are the ones that want to be with someone else themselves and want to get their partner away from them. 

If you believe nothing else, believe that she is doing this for HER OWN agendas and NOT doing it to do you any favors. This is for HER, not you.


----------



## Evinrude58

oldshirt said:


> No, it really doesn’t work that way.
> 
> You may feel like she has no sex drive so she is offering you this as a favor.
> 
> But people with actual low sex drives but that want to remain with their partners do not offer their partners to get with other people because they know that once their partner starts hooking up with someone else, they will want to be with that person and will dump them.
> 
> They only people that offer their partner to sleep with others are the ones that want to be with someone else themselves and want to get their partner away from them.
> 
> If you believe nothing else, believe that she is doing this for HER OWN agendas and NOT doing it to do you any favors. This is for HER, not you.


sadly, this is exactly accurate.
She didn’t offer up the “do you think we have a connection” thing out of the blue.
She’s been thinking how she doesn’t have one with you and how good the connection with the OM is. Not fun. It’s just how it is. She’s gonna serve you up an opportunity to find a woman you are truly happy with. You’re gonna hate what she’s doing until then......


----------



## DesertRat1978

Dinanpower said:


> Not really . It wasnt really that much when we were dating either. Got worst after kids


I do find it odd that she would offer up the chance for you to be with someone else. This sounds like a passive-aggressive way to ending it with you.

It is tough to call it off with someone even if you have lost the connection. With my ex-wife, it took years to just finally say it and move on. We were having sex once every 2 to 3 months and it was just because... well it had been so long. It was never all that satisfying.


----------



## oldshirt

DesertRat1978 said:


> I do find it odd that she would offer up the chance for you to be with someone else. This sounds like a passive-aggressive way to ending it with you.


It’s often not even passive aggressive,, it’s usually just a state of total disconnect, disregard and even discard.

By the time someone has reached the point they are offering their spouse to do someone else, they are basically turning out the lights and shutting the door on the marriage behind them. 

The only steps that follow that one are moving in with the OM and filing for D.


----------



## Dinanpower

DesertRat1978 said:


> I do find it odd that she would offer up the chance for you to be with someone else. This sounds like a passive-aggressive way to ending it with you.
> 
> It is tough to call it off with someone even if you have lost the connection. With my ex-wife, it took years to just finally say it and move on. We were having sex once every 2 to 3 months and it was just because... well it had been so long. It was never all that satisfying.


Finally someone who gets what im.saying . Its tough to just call it . Divorce isnt a easy thing.


----------



## DesertRat1978

oldshirt said:


> It’s often not even passive aggressive,, it’s usually just a state of total disconnect, disregard and even discard.
> 
> By the time someone has reached the point they are offering their spouse to do someone else, they are basically turning out the lights and shutting the door on the marriage behind them.
> 
> The only steps that follow that one are moving in with the OM and filing for D.


I have not read the entirety of the thread but is there an OM?


----------



## Dinanpower

DesertRat1978 said:


> I have not read the entirety of the thread but is there an OM?


No she mentioned it. But she mentioned it was for me to go out and maybe she can feel some jealousy if im.with someone else .


----------



## DesertRat1978

Dinanpower said:


> Finally someone who gets what im.saying . Its tough to just call it . Divorce isnt a easy thing.


There is going to come a time when this lack of sex/physical connection is going to bother you enough to consider some changes. Can't say when that time is or will be. My moment came when I was trying to initiate intimacy and it not only felt forced but empty. Hard to explain but the light bulb came on and it was clear that this was not all that different from being alone. So if the two are about the same, why not opt for being alone and not having to pretend to be interested.


----------



## Dinanpower

DesertRat1978 said:


> There is going to come a time when this lack of sex/physical connection is going to bother you enough to consider some changes. Can't say when that time is or will be. My moment came when I was trying to initiate intimacy and it not only felt forced but empty. Hard to explain but the light bulb came on and it was clear that this was not all that different from being alone. So if the two are about the same, why not opt for being alone and not having to pretend to be interested.


I think I'm at the point but now she tells me to go out and have sex . So it's almost like she throwing me away. I told her this was gonna be a problem . Earlier that we have no intimacy.


----------



## Dinanpower

Dinanpower said:


> I think I'm at the point but now she tells me to go out and have sex . So it's almost like she throwing me away. I told her this was gonna be a problem . Earlier that we have no intimacy.


We are in therapy now . I dont know what it will bring but I have to know I exhausted all Avenues.


----------



## cp3o

Dinanpower said:


> But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage.


FWIW - my XW was desperate for me to have sex with a woman - any woman. She said it would "make us even". She was unable to realise that it was impossible for me to destroy that which she had already shattered.

Both before and after we moved from one town to another her then best friend offered me sex - the second was certainly a set up. When that didn't work I found that we had accepted a dinner invite which, once I got there, was set up as a four couple swap/orgy - I had a decent dinner, sat and chatted to the blonde who was playing up to me over coffee and then realised that we were late for getting the child-minder home. 

Now - this doesn't mean that your wife is trying to get you to ease her conscience, nor does it mean that she's trying to set you up for a guilty party divorce - but I suggest you take the possibilities seriously before rejecting them out of hand.


----------



## oldshirt

DesertRat1978 said:


> I have not read the entirety of the thread but is there an OM?


That has not been determined for sure yet but highly suspected by a number of us. 

A 60-something post menopausal woman my give her husband a hall pass just to get him off her back. 

But when a healthy, fertile, intact woman suggests it, it is almost always but she has someone else that she is wanting to spend more time with and doesn’t want to mess with husband at all.


----------



## marko polo

_*Like the idea of open marriage was mentioned and this and that . I feel like she at times mentions shes not much of a sexual person. Could be a factor in why she wants me to go out and have sex with others .*_

People introducing / springing the concept of an open marriage during the marriage, out of the blue, usually have someone in mind they would like to pursue or they have already engaged in an affair and merely wish to take it out into the open without guilt or consequences. Those that genuinely practice the open lifestyle make it clear this is their way long before marriage.

_*I feel like she at times mentions shes not much of a sexual person. *_ 
This is incomplete. She is not much of a sexual person with *you. *That does not mean she has no interest in being sexual with someone else. Someone she is attracted to.

_*now she tells me to go out and have sex . So it's almost like she throwing me away. *_
She has moved on and detached from you.

_*I can't divorce off of assumptions.*_ 
Then dig harder for proof. Certainly you can choose inaction and wait to see how it unfolds. You will be very disappointed with the results. When she obtains a commitment from the current other man or another down the road you will find yourself blindsided by divorce and completely discarded. Right now you still serve a purpose for her. You provide stability so that she can seek excitement outside the marriage.


----------



## cp3o

Dinanpower said:


> She is friendly at work with a co worker but he cant take her they work the same weekend they both cant get off the same weekend.


Do you know this for a fact or do you believe it because she's told you it?


----------



## DesertRat1978

Dinanpower said:


> I think I'm at the point but now she tells me to go out and have sex . So it's almost like she throwing me away. I told her this was gonna be a problem . Earlier that we have no intimacy.


Some on here do not believe that anybody is actually low drive. They simply are not getting what they want from the spouse but would gladly get it from someone else given the opportunity. I am not one of them. My wife and I have had epic dry spells..... 2.5 years at one point. I do not know definitively if she has cheated but nothing points to it. 

Are you curious to know if there is an OM?


----------



## lucy999

I would focus on her WhatsApp, the coworker, and do a few surprise pop ins at the kids' activities. Take your wife out to lunch as a surprise (if it's feasible--I have no idea what you guys do for a living). Don't tell her. Just show up. Watch your wife's body language when you pop up at her job and the kids' activities. I wouldn't rule out someone at those two venues.

But get the "she doesn't have time!" notion out of your head. Now. It will not serve you well. When there's a will, there's a way.


----------



## Dinanpower

cp3o said:


> Do you know this for a fact or do you believe it because she's told you it?


Yeah we are both ct techs. And they work the same shift so they both cant get off


----------



## Dinanpower

DesertRat1978 said:


> Some on here do not believe that anybody is actually low drive. They simply are not getting what they want from the spouse but would gladly get it from someone else given the opportunity. I am not one of them. My wife and I have had epic dry spells..... 2.5 years at one point. I do not know definitively if she has cheated but nothing points to it.
> 
> Are you curious to know if there is an OM?


Wow that's a long time. Well I never agreed to an open marriage .


----------



## DesertRat1978

Dinanpower said:


> Wow that's a long time. Well I never agreed to an open marriage .


It would seem that either she is very low drive or there is an OM. Either way, not a good situation. If she is the former and is not going to work on it, not much can be done. In response to my wife very low drive, mine has since shriveled up and pretty much died.


----------



## Dinanpower

lucy999 said:


> I would focus on her WhatsApp, the coworker, and do a few surprise pop ins at the kids' activities. Take your wife out to lunch as a surprise (if it's feasible--I have no idea what you guys do for a living). Don't tell her. Just show up. Watch your wife's body language when you pop up at her job and the kids' activities. I wouldn't rule out someone at those two venues.
> 
> But get the "she doesn't have time!" notion out of your head. Now. It will not serve you well. When there's a will, there's a way.


Highly doubtful at the kids activities cause I'm normally there. But the pop up at her job might be an idea . Because I feel like that would be a place where she could meet someone .


----------



## Enigma32

The low drive thing isn't so much of a big deal. There are people with a low sex drive so that issue alone wouldn't make me worry so much. It's the combination of that with everything else. Each little thing adds up to something bad.


----------



## shortbus

You're wasting time in a marriage counselor's office, all that is is mustard for your **** sandwich.
Time would be better spent in a lawyer's office, drawing up divorce papers.
Sorry for your situation, hopefully yours eyes will be opened soon.
Best of luck going forward.


----------



## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> Highly doubtful at the kids activities cause I'm normally there. But the pop up at her job might be an idea . Because I feel like that would be a place where she could meet someone .


Showing up unexpectedly can be a tool in the toolbox to see if there is something afoul underfoot.

The chances of you catching her red handed cavorting with someone else is infinitesimally small (although it definitely has happened)

The real value is is in the first moments of her seeing you there. 

Is there iinitial surprise and then and then glad to see you?

Or is there stark terror in her eyes and then nervous as a wh0re in church?

This is where you have to rely on your own intuition and social intelligence.

The actual words being exchanged may be normal, ie “what are you doing here?”

But there is a difference between, “what are you doing here?” Vs “what are you doing here?” 

You’ll need to read body language, voice inflection, eye movements, speech octave, emotional state etc etc.

After you are there for a handful of minutes, find some excuse to hold her hand even for a second - is it cold and clammy and sweaty?

There is a million to one chance against catching her red handed.

Her words will also probably be normal.

But her demeanor and body language and voice inflection and emotional state can tell you tons if you are perceptive enough to see it.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> There is a million to one chance against catching her red handed.
> 
> Her words will also probably be normal.
> 
> But her demeanor and body language and voice inflection and emotional state can tell you tons if you are perceptive enough to see it.


Actually this applies to everything in your dealings with her going forward.

Actions speak way louder than words.

People lie but their actions are their reality. 

If someone is telling you they want you to be comfortable and relaxed, but they are stabbing you repeatedly with a knife, which is the reality??? 

People are what they do, not what they say. 

In the upcoming days, you are going to need to become an expert in body language and nonverbal communication and learn to observe people’s behavior and not rely on their words.


----------



## Dinanpower

oldshirt said:


> Actually this applies to everything in your dealings with her going forward.
> 
> Actions speak way louder than words.
> 
> People lie but their actions are their reality.
> 
> If someone is telling you they want you to be comfortable and relaxed, but they are stabbing you repeatedly with a knife, which is the reality???
> 
> People are what they do, not what they say.
> 
> In the upcoming days, you are going to need to become an expert in body language and nonverbal communication and learn to observe people’s behavior and not rely on their words.


I feel like right now she is kind of cold.


----------



## Torninhalf

Dinanpower said:


> I feel like right now she is kind of cold.


Have you thought about calling her bluff? Telling her that you think that perhaps you will start seeing other women?


----------



## oldshirt

Dinanpower said:


> I feel like right now she is kind of cold.


As we have all been telling you, encouraging you to hook up with other women, wanting to vacation without you etc are all very LATE signs.

She has probably been cooling off and disconnecting for years. 

You have been asleep and have been relying on people’s words. Now you need to wake up and read their actions and nonverbals. I have the feeling this has not been your strong suit historically and your not exactly a ‘people person’ that can perceive emotional states and pick up on subtle signs that someone is manipulating or BSing you.

It’s time to change that.


----------



## GC1234

Dinanpower said:


> She said she was thinking for awhile about it because she was having issue with her body after the first baby


I just had my second kid...I wouldn't even think to want to show another guy my body lol. But I can't help but wonder, have you not been giving her enough attention, or is there an issue between you that hasn't been resolved for a long time?


----------



## Dinanpower

Torninhalf said:


> Have you thought about calling her bluff? Telling her that you think that perhaps you will start seeing other women?


I thought about it . And just going out and faking it


GC1234 said:


> I just had my second kid...I wouldn't even think to want to show another guy my body lol. But I can't help but wonder, have you not been giving her enough attention, or is there an issue between you that hasn't been resolved for a long time?


I've always given her attention. I've always been thr more affectionate one


----------



## Torninhalf

Dinanpower said:


> I thought about it . And just going out and faking it
> I've always given her attention. I've always been thr more affectionate one


How do you think she would react if you came home a couple of hours late without an explanation?


----------



## Dinanpower

Torninhalf said:


> How do you think she would react if you came home a couple of hours late without an explanation?


🤔🤔. I really don't know .lol. she might ask where did I go


----------



## Torninhalf

Dinanpower said:


> 🤔🤔. I really don't know .lol. she might ask where did I go


Honestly I would be tempted to do exactly that. Take a drive on the next nice day. Find a park to walk around. Come home late and immediately shower. 😁


----------



## Dinanpower

Torninhalf said:


> Honestly I would be tempted to do exactly that. Take a drive on the next nice day. Find a park to walk around. Come home late and immediately shower. 😁


Hmmmmm. That sounds like something that might work . I can probably try that this weekend


----------



## Cooper

I find this post very sad. OP your wife is absolutely checked out of the marriage as far as her emotional connection to you, and she is telling you this. 

You are in denile and it's costing you precious time. You are going to waste the next few years trying to fix things, trying to discover the reasons why, questioning everything and stressing yourself out. But the end result will be the same, your wife still will not love you.


----------



## Dinanpower

Cooper said:


> I find this post very sad. OP your wife is absolutely checked out of the marriage as far as her emotional connection to you, and she is telling you this.
> 
> You are in denile and it's costing you precious time. You are going to waste the next few years trying to fix things, trying to discover the reasons why, questioning everything and stressing yourself out. But the end result will be the same, your wife still will not love you.
> [/QUOTE. Yeah the open marriage idea is killing me. I need to hear it from her mouth though . We are in the therapy now but I need to know if I'm wasting my time trying with her.


----------



## GC1234

Dinanpower said:


> I thought about it . And just going out and faking it
> I've always given her attention. I've always been thr more affectionate one


Thennn....it ain't you! She is making excuses.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Dinanpower said:


> I dont know where she hasnt booked anything
> She doesnt go out on weekends . She pretty much stays home with the kids. They are in activities so Monday thru Friday . She get off work at 2 or 3 . Picks up 1 daughter at 245 and the other 3. Then she is home with them. I have more time to cheat than she does


You will never k ow how many times she left work early or there are many trists over lunch.


----------



## Dinanpower

So I went through her lap top . The solo trip is in fort Lauderdale. I mean it shows only one guest for what I saw she looked up . And she did some research also on momcations and the reason why sometimes u need to be alone as a mom.


Divinely Favored said:


> You will never k ow how many times she left work early or there are many trists over lunch.


That's true but she normally calls me when she leaves work and it's a hospital where she works so sometimes it's not that easy to leave early


----------



## Divinely Favored

Dinanpower said:


> It's a solo vacation but we are having no intimacy in our marriage


There are alot of guys that work on cruise ships that are more that happy to hook up with lonely women on the ship...or women looking to cheat on their SOs.


----------



## Dinanpower

Divinely Favored said:


> There are alot of guys that work on cruise ships that are more that happy to hook up with lonely women on the ship...or women looking to cheat on their SOs.


shes not going on a cruise . Cruising has been shut down for awhile


----------



## Evinrude58

So what are you hoping for?
Do you think there’s any chance of having a marriage with her that you’d be happy with?

She’s NEVER wanted a lot of sex with you.
Maybe she actually is super low drive.

But she doesn’t lol forward to spending time with you, or have sex with you. She says she doesn’t even feel a connection to you.

Are you hoping to fix this? It sounds like it’s always been a meh marriage.

If you don’t think it can be fixed, will you need to catch her cheating to get angry enough to leave her?

I’m curious what your hopes are for in this situation.


----------



## Dinanpower

Evinrude58 said:


> So what are you hoping for?
> Do you think there’s any chance of having a marriage with her that you’d be happy with?
> 
> She’s NEVER wanted a lot of sex with you.
> Maybe she actually is super low drive.
> 
> But she doesn’t lol forward to spending time with you, or have sex with you. She says she doesn’t even feel a connection to you.
> 
> Are you hoping to fix this? It sounds like it’s always been a meh marriage.
> 
> If you don’t think it can be fixed, will you need to catch her cheating to get angry enough to leave her?
> 
> I’m curious what your hopes are for in this situation.


I'm not sure . But if she is that unhappy with me I cant stay with her for the kids


----------



## Marc878

Manipulation won’t get you a thing long term. It’s high schoolish behavior.

read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf download

It will give you insight on how to better handle yourself.


----------



## Evinrude58

I just want you to know that I wish the best for you, understand how hard it is to uproot your life, and hope that your wife isn’t cheating and it’s just a marriage that isn’t giving either of you what you need and you can coparent well and remain friends at least.


----------



## Trident

Torninhalf said:


> Have you thought about calling her bluff? Telling her that you think that perhaps you will start seeing other women?


What will that accomplish exactly? So he goes out for the day walks around a park, comes home acting suspicious, takes a shower, leaves her thinking he's having an affair, which is what she wanted in the first place. Now she's free to go fool around because heck, he did it!


----------



## RebuildingMe

Trident said:


> What will that accomplish exactly? So he goes out for the day walks around a park, comes home acting suspicious, takes a shower, leaves her thinking he's having an affair, which is what she wanted in the first place. Now she's free to go fool around because heck, he did it!


Yet, he didn’t. So he pays the punishment without committing the crime. I agree, just a silly game. If he goes out for the day, it should be for him, not to make her jealous. If she has an OM like many assume, she ain’t gonna get jealous anyway.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Dinanpower said:


> I'm not sure . But if she is that unhappy with me I cant stay with her for the kids


Exactly. You have reasons to leave anyway.


----------



## marko polo

RebuildingMe said:


> Yet, he didn’t. So he pays the punishment without committing the crime. I agree, just a silly game. If he goes out for the day, it should be for him, not to make her jealous. If she has an OM like many assume, she ain’t gonna get jealous anyway.


Cheaters are selfish and possessive. They do not like to be replaced even if they say they don't care. They care quick enough when they are discarded and it is not on their terms or timetable. If she were "normal" and or well adjusted, an adult, she would have never settled for the OP if he was not what she wanted. Even if they grew apart she would have ended the marriage and then gone off to find someone more compatible. But that is not what she is doing. She is not yet ready to leave because if she was she would have gone already. 

My ex wife was no different. She threatened divorce many times while straying. Her reaction to being served was anger and embarrassment and this was while my ex wife was already with another man. OPs wife is acting as she is because she can. For the moment she has all the power in the marriage because he has not yet taken action. She knows her husband does not want to lose her or end the marriage. Should the OP choose to start acting in his own best interest and discard her she will be acting quite differently.


----------



## Marc878

^^^^^ The thing is this is part of who3 she is. She’s married to you but wants to be alone? Obviously the marriage doesn’t mean that much to her. What exactly are you trying to save here? A marriage to someone who thinks her alone time is more important than you, how you feel, etc?

Until you wake up to reality you will keep yourself in limbo.


----------



## Torninhalf

Trident said:


> What will that accomplish exactly? So he goes out for the day walks around a park, comes home acting suspicious, takes a shower, leaves her thinking he's having an affair, which is what she wanted in the first place. Now she's free to go fool around because heck, he did it!


Sure it is a game. She is most likely already having an affair and as we all know cheaters HATE being cheated on. It’s worth it just to see her reaction.


----------



## Trident

Torninhalf said:


> and as we all know cheaters HATE being cheated on. It’s worth it just to see her reaction.


We all don't know that cheaters hate being cheated on. First I've heard of it was in your post and it makes no sense to me given that in most cases the cheater is already detached from their spouse or significant other so why would they "hate it" or even care?

The guy's life is falling apart and he needs to be working on an exit strategy not playing silly games to evoke some sort of reaction from a wife who probably doesn't even give a rat's ass about what he does.


----------



## marko polo

Trident said:


> We all don't know that cheaters hate being cheated on. First I've heard of it was in your post and it makes no sense to me given that in most cases the cheater is already detached from their spouse or significant other so why would they "hate it" or even care?


Respectfully *you* don't know that cheaters hate being cheated on. You are attempting to apply logic where it is not applicable. Cheaters are motivated by selfish interest not logic. Logic would have her consider her responsibilities and the consequences of any actions. Rest assured there has been none of that.

How do I know cheaters hate being cheated on because I was married to one and a dated a few just like her. Did I need to cheat in return to aggravate them? No. All it took was dropping each one like a hot stone after the betrayal and moving on. Hate came into play when I replaced my betrayer.

Why would they hate it or even care? Because it proves the cheater is no longer in control. It proves that the cheater is not as special as they thought. Whether you choose to cheat on your betrayer or replace them after the fact proves that they are replaceable. Cheaters do not cheat without a safety net/ loyal spouse in place. They need someone to crawl back to if the affair partner does not work out. Cheaters also need someone to pay the bills and keep the home while they are off chasing their fantasy. 

If a one spouse is detached from another completely they don't bother with cheating they just leave. They don't bother with proposing an open marriage they just leave.

I didn't need to cheat on my ex wife to get a reaction. All I had to do was discard her and file for divorce before she wanted it. All I had to do was what was in my best interest and move on. If I wanted to throw fuel on the fire cheating would have definitely been the way to go.

If you want to know a person pay attention to their actions not their words. What action has the OPs wife taken? Filed for divorce? No. She wants to find excitement outside the marriage and then come back to her home with a man that is paying the bills and looking after the kids who is getting little or nothing in return from her. If she wants to sincerely be on her own what is stopping her? Why hasn't she filed for divorce? No need to. Her safety net/ husband has not chosen to act yet and she doesn't expect him to.


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## Kamstel2

You’ve gotten a lot of great advice here to think about. But I have one question for you....

is this really the life (and marriage) you want?????


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## TeeTee78

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


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## center1

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


No to the vacation. Tell her it’s time for a serious commitment to working on this that involves marriage counseling or you’re out. That’s the boundary and of she won’t respect and commit to it, walk.


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## Diceplayer

I've been watching this thread for the last few days, wondering what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. I believe I would tell her to go ahead and take her trip if she wants but I would also tell her that when she came home, her keys won't work because you are going to change the locks. Then if she goes, follow up and do it.


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## Deepinthehearta

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


Sounds like classic cluster B personality disorder. She does not respect you and finds you repulsive.


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## Night Owl1

Well, this is a “hot” one. Your marriage is definitely in trouble. Everyone has given you sage and uncensored advice. If you have children and you think you can still love one another, stand your ground. No solo swinging vacation! I suggest you sit her down (after you’ve talked to an attorney) and tell her how you really feel. If you want to try to keep your family together, that takes 2 people willing to do the work. It sounds to me, she’s done with you. I had a girlfriend that took separate vacations from her spouse. She had another man already & they divorced soon after. 
good luck but you may have no choice. It seems like she’s made hers already. I’m sorry.


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## walkout wife

Unbelievable. 

Has anyone else considered that she just wants a holiday to get away from her husband who has probably taken her for granted for the past 8 years, who has probably never done anything nice for her, has repeatedly treated her with complete disregard? 

What did you have planned for her birthday? My guess is that it was the same as last year - nothing so rather then wait around for the disappointment she out doing nice things for herself. 

And who could blame her for wanting something for herself.


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## Dinanpower

walkout wife said:


> Unbelievable.
> 
> Has anyone else considered that she just wants a holiday to get away from her husband who has probably taken her for granted for the past 8 years, who has probably never done anything nice for her, has repeatedly treated her with complete disregard?
> 
> What did you have planned for her birthday? My guess is that it was the same as last year - nothing so rather then wait around for the disappointment she out doing nice things for herself.
> 
> And who could blame her for wanting something for herself.


I agree she should want to.do something nice for herself .


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## Dinanpower

Dinanpower said:


> I agree she should want to.do something nice for herself .


But it's just the timing that sucks


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## Marc878

Kamstel2 said:


> You’ve gotten a lot of great advice here to think about. But I have one question for you....
> 
> is this really the life (and marriage) you want?????


Excellent question


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## Dictum Veritas

walkout wife said:


> Unbelievable.
> 
> Has anyone else considered that she just wants a holiday to get away from her husband who has probably taken her for granted for the past 8 years, who has probably never done anything nice for her, has repeatedly treated her with complete disregard?
> 
> What did you have planned for her birthday? My guess is that it was the same as last year - nothing so rather then wait around for the disappointment she out doing nice things for herself.
> 
> And who could blame her for wanting something for herself.


Considered and in context deemed highly unlikely.


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## Lostinthought61

Dinanpower said:


> I agree she should want to.do something nice for herself .


If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck...you can be sure it’s not a chicken....you want her to go on a solo vacation fine but verify it by hiring a PI...don’t go through life clueless


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## Lostinthought61

walkout wife said:


> Unbelievable.
> 
> Has anyone else considered that she just wants a holiday to get away from her husband who has probably taken her for granted for the past 8 years, who has probably never done anything nice for her, has repeatedly treated her with complete disregard?
> 
> What did you have planned for her birthday? My guess is that it was the same as last year - nothing so rather then wait around for the disappointment she out doing nice things for herself.
> 
> And who could blame her for wanting something for herself.


Right...she wants an open marriage, she wants him to have sex with women but she is want to just get away with any interest in another man....keep walking out you are clueless


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## marko polo

walkout wife said:


> Unbelievable.
> 
> Has anyone else considered that she just wants a holiday to get away from her husband who has probably taken her for granted for the past 8 years, who has probably never done anything nice for her, has repeatedly treated her with complete disregard?
> 
> What did you have planned for her birthday? My guess is that it was the same as last year - nothing so rather then wait around for the disappointment she out doing nice things for herself.
> 
> And who could blame her for wanting something for herself.


Unbelievable is the right word but...

If the OPs wife is that dissatisfied and would prefer to be single she could easily remedy the situation by filing for divorce and moving out. But she hasn't done this has she. Instead she has chosen to ask for an open marriage and a solo vacation. 

Doesn't sound like she is suffering, just selfish and looking for the next upgrade while keeping her husband around to pay the bills and act as the back up.


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## walkout wife

Dinanpower said:


> But it's just the timing that sucks


Where are your children during this? 

Are they with you or some other care giver or are they going with your wife on holidays?


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## Marc878

walkout wife said:


> Spoken like a typical American.
> 
> Why don't you go storm your capital building based on what some whackjob has said?


😂😂😂😂😂🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪


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## Prodigal

walkout wife said:


> Spoken like a typical American.
> 
> Why don't you go storm your capital building based on what some whackjob has said?


And your response is relevant to this thread because?????


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## Lostinthought61

walkout wife said:


> Spoken like a typical American.
> 
> Why don't you go storm your capital building based on what some whackjob has said?


Lol..I love your generalization......yeah we all stormed the capital based on orange boy words...... You really are clueless.


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## Marc878

Lostinthought61 said:


> Lol..I love your generalization......yeah we all stormed the capital based on orange boy words...... You really are clueless.


WTH! I didn’t get invited and I wanted to storm the capital. That’s BS!!!!


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## ABHale

Can we leave politics out of this. What BS


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## RebuildingMe

Marc878 said:


> WTH! I didn’t get invited and I wanted to storm the capital. That’s BS!!!!


We Americans should learn to just “walkout” of difficult situations.


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## Marc878

RebuildingMe said:


> We Americans should learn to just “walkout” of difficult situations.


I was being sarcastic.

Nope, you don’t get into them in the first place.


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## RebuildingMe

Marc878 said:


> I was being sarcastic.
> 
> Nope, you don’t get into them in the first place.


I was being sarcastic also


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## Marc878

RebuildingMe said:


> I was being sarcastic also


Great advice. Just let them go.


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## jlg07

walkout wife said:


> Unbelievable.
> 
> Has anyone else considered that she just wants a holiday to get away from her husband who has probably taken her for granted for the past 8 years, who has probably never done anything nice for her, has repeatedly treated her with complete disregard?
> .


Yes, EXCEPT for the fact that she's said she wants to have an open marriage -- NO wife would say that without either a)wanting (and probably having it lined up) someone else, or b)wants him to do something so that she can divorce him and have HIM look like the bad guy.


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## marko polo

walkout wife said:


> Where are your children during this?
> 
> Are they with you or some other care giver or are they going with your wife on holidays?


 "_she say she feels like a *solo* vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend" _

*SOLO *

*for or done by one person alone; unaccompanied.*
"a solo album" ·

synonyms:
*unaccompanied** · single-handed · companionless · unescorted · unattended ·*

The kids will not be vacationing with their wayward mother. The OP's wife cares about the kids as much as she does her husband. The kids aren't on her radar or on the list of her priorities and concerns. She has a husband to pay the bills, keep the home and raise and occupy the kids while she gets satisfied elsewhere. That is why she still keeps him around.

If the OP's wife is so unhappy and and her marriage is so unfair and unfulfilling why hasn't she left the marriage and her husband? Why hasn't she filed for divorce? 

Answer - no one else aside from the husband will pay the bills, keep the home and care for the children. If she had another man willing to take up these responsibilities or family that would, the marriage would have ended already. She would have filed for divorce and been long gone.


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## DudeInProgress

You’ve received enough feedback here to understand why you can’t allow this, so take action. It’is not complicated, the answer is No. “No wife, I am not ok with you taking a solo vacation, especially with where we are in our marriage.” Followed by, “You are free to make your own choices but this crosses a hard boundary for me, so if you insist on doing this than you are choosing to end this marriage. I’m willing to work on our marriage together but there will be no solo vacations.” And then follow through. No guilt, no arguing. Stand up, be strong and lead. If she needs some alone time to de-stress, figure out an acceptable way to do that without a solo vacation. And make sure it’s reciprocal for you. Then figure out if this marriage is worth saving.


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## aston

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


Let me tell you what you don't want to hear. She is either seeing someone, has landed on a random *ick, or in the least has sampled the menu on another plate. Now she's questioning everything.
That she wants to go on a solo vacation only means on thing.....How Stella got her groove back! 
If she's going to the islands, all of my above points are 100%. If she's going to Jamaica......she's gonna get some chocolate bars!


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## Kamstel2

Dinan,
Just checking in on you to see how you were doing.

hope you are doing well.

Good luck and stay strong.


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## Dinanpower

I'm doing ok. I came to certain conclusions with the marriage . She is trying hard in therapy . But she still hasnt book any trips yet. Hasnt mentioned anything either about. But I realized the non affection is who she is . She has always been like that since day 1 of dating . I come to face that I'm asking for something she may not be able to give.


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## Prodigal

Dinanpower said:


> She has always been like that since day 1 of dating . I come to face that I'm asking for something she may not be able to give.


You knew from "day 1" that she was this way. No, she isn't able to give you what you want. But you knew that from "day 1." I think you need to figure out why you persist in believing WHAT IS will change into WHAT IF. I'm sorry, but that's the cold, hard truth.


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## Dinanpower

Prodigal said:


> You knew from "day 1" that she was this way. No, she isn't able to give you what you want. But you knew that from "day 1." I think you need to figure out why you persist in believing WHAT IS will change into WHAT IF. I'm sorry, but that's the cold, hard truth.


I agree that's the realization I have been figuring out


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## Evinrude58

Wishing you future happiness. I think you’re due some.


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## Dinanpower

Evinrude58 said:


> Wishing you future happiness. I think you’re due some.


Thanks


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## ABHale

How are things going. Any progress?


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## Marc878

Let her go. There’s nothing for you in this.


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## Dinanpower

Marc878 said:


> Let her go. There’s nothing for you in this.


I'm pretty much at my limits with her. She never went on the solo vacation. But I cant stand being around her at times.she is always complaining and always has an attitude . We still have a horrible sex life


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## Marc878

Limbo is a self imposed state.


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## jlg07

Has any of the MCounseling helped? What are her major issues? 
Did you ever get to check in to her phone records or What'sApp? Also, did anything ever come from the VARS you used?


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## GusPolinski

Dinanpower said:


> We are in bad part of our marriage . My wife texted me in the middle of an argument asking me do I think we have natural chemistry . I said yes and she said she doesnt want to talk through text . I addressed it later and asked her do you think we have natural chemistry. She says no at times I don't. We been married for 8 years and we barely have sex. I would say once every couple months. But then she also mentioned the idea of letting me go out to have sex with other girls and she mentioned the idea of an open marriage. She then starts to say she feels like she is losing herself and wants to find herself again . And how she feels like we lost our connection. .and then she say she feels like a solo vacation might be good for her mental health . I dont think it's the right time but she insist she goes on her b day weekend


Have you met her boyfriend yet?

Geez, just divorce already.


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## GusPolinski

Dinanpower said:


> I'm pretty much at my limits with her. She never went on the solo vacation. But I cant stand being around her at times.she is always complaining and always has an attitude . _*We still have a horrible sex life*_


You might.

She doesn’t.


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## Talker67

solo vacation?
sounds like temptation island. a few Mai tais in the hotel bar, and who knows what she might do.

also there IS the possibility (not certainty though) of her hooking up with a bf there. Possibly someone she met online in that area, and she wants to make the trip to check him or her out.

On the other hand, she is a mom with kids, and apparently leads a pretty boring life. AAnd her boredom is not intersperced with major monkey sex with you.

Sounds like she might just need a little more to life. can she volunteer where you live? work at an animal shelter, help meals on wheels for the elderly, volunteer at some charity or religious organization?

Also, WHY is your sex so tepid. TRY HARD to bump that up! read up on the sex in marriage thread.

if i were you, i would be looking at my life going forward, and my retirement years, and want more. more as in fun things to do together, and in more frequency of more exotic sex. i would figure out how to change things, and then spend the next year or two trying to make it happen. At the end of your 2 year effort, it will become clear if it is going to happen or not, and if she is the one or you need to keep on looking.


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## BigDaddyNY

Dinanpower said:


> I'm pretty much at my limits with her. She never went on the solo vacation. But I cant stand being around her at times.she is always complaining and always has an attitude . We still have a horrible sex life


So tell us why you are still married?


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