# Too little too late?



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

I am a separated father of 3 . Married for 13 years. I am trying to repair a marriage that has gone sideways. Separated 2.5 years she told me 2 months ago she wanted a divorce. It made me realize that I still loved her and would do whatever it took to keep her. I have been depressed since childhood and had a hard time allowing myself to connect to myself much less her. She is a yeller which since the beginning of our relationship ha caused me to pull away because it makes me feel like ****. We haven't had a emotional connection in a very long time.This has hurt her very badly. I have known her for 22 years and we have always been in love with one another. I turned to drinking to keep my distance rather than turning to her because I didn't trust that she would take care of me. That it would make me weak, not a man. I have been in therapy 2x per week since she told me and have been working on my issues. read a book called "i don't want to talk about it" about covert depression. It was me to a tee. i have apologized and begged. Been a "new man..she sees it but doesn't trust it. She has all the signs of a MLC. Drunk every night, dating a guy that has no potential etc. Has had a nervous breakdown that has had me with the kids for over a month. We normal split time. She is normally an amazing mother.. said she needed to work on herself and couldn't handle the kids but has used the time to get drunk and hang out with this new guy. She and all of her friends say is is a "dumbass" She has said she would never introduce him to the kids etc. Says her heart is dead and needs space to think. All of our friends and family want us to make it work. She says she wants her family back but is afraid that if she opens up to me is afraid that I will laugh in her face, hurt her again. I do love her dearly and want to make it work and feel like I have said and done everything I can. She still doesn't trust me with her heart. She is putting all of the blame on my back which I am ok with for now. has been giving me mixed signal. texts etc. now says her therapist says we need a break while she mourns. I have been very supportive even telling her that I loved her unconditionally in spite of her being with another man. I know she still loves me, I want it to work. But I can't do it alone. Sorry for rambling.

Any advice?


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## curashu (Jul 9, 2012)

Read the book how to stop your divorce by Homer mcdonald and 
the case against divorce by diane medved... never its too late to fix a relationship :smthumbup:


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

curashu said:


> Read the book how to stop your divorce by Homer mcdonald and
> the case against divorce by diane medved... never its too late to fix a relationship :smthumbup:


^^^ OMG second I second that! But the website for SYD was taken down and you can only find it now on torrent sites.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

At this point I feel like I am being played a bit. Considering the 180?


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Yell there you go TLx2, 

You were depressed and expected her to take care of you, but you didn't love yourself even then and still had self esteem issues. Over time this was so emotionally draining for her that she couldn't repress her grief and started having contempt for you. How could she love you when she's expected to give enough love for you both and still take care of her feelings? 

She became controlling because she wanted you help yourself stop depending on her, and when that didn't happen out of grief or exhaustion she became more vicious. And I'm not telling you this to point fingers, I have cyclothymic bipolar disorder and have been through this myself.

Here's what you're going to do, and what's going to happen as a resort. You're going to side with her and agree to the divorce as she wants. She believes that divorcing you for this man will make her happier, but even you and I can tell she's miserable. You're going to tell her how she deserves to be happy and that you're relieved she's found someone better than you - All lies, but it's what she wants to hear and will get her to stop beating you with that emotional clobbering stick. Then you're going to 180 and work on yourself like never before. Only talk to her when you return her contacts and always "act as if" you're doing just fine. Then just wait and allow things to cool off. 

Her boyfriend.... is just a pathetic attempts to replace you and bring excitement in her life. Her affair was over the moment she said "I love you" before she had a chance to work on herself, revived then killed again once she told herself she would never bring him around the kids. She just hasn't worked up the courage to live without him..... I doubt it will last a year after divorce once she sees the new you. 

Her alcoholism, I know you want to help but you're the last person in the world she will accept help from. Let her deal with this on her own and decide enough is enough when she's ready. You will still have a chance later to talk to her and help her if she needs it. 

And the kids, if she demands custody..... let her have custody. You will see them months from now anyways and see just how miserable she is with everything she thought she wanted. So long as you don't fight her on this and show her a loving YOU, she will be willing to let you be around her/them more often.

Buddy, it's going to be ok..... You are just going to have to think with your head and not let your emotions get in the way and ruin opportunities.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

It wasn't so much that I need her to take care of me, I just didn't trust that she really loved me, that anyone really could for that matter. Both of my parents weren't around which caused me to mistrust connection. I have always had to go it alone. It has been an issue all my life ( idealize now ) that I thought I could always get over..it was a funk, a phase. I thought I could fill the hole with other things money, prestige, booze etc. I didn't realize the disruption it caused. Sad but true. Since she dropped the D bomb I have been working so hard to exorcise my demons of the past. She see it and knows why it happened but says that it doesn't take away the hurt. I have been bending over backwards to show her that I have and will continue to change. I will admit that I have been chasing far too much and haven't given her the space she needs....ask her where we are..talking about us..talking to her friends etc. But that said I have been 100% supportive of her thru the breakdown..took the kids for a month, doing nice things for her..told her that I loved her unconditionally in spite of the other guy...think her guilt was causing the instability. I don't think she thought I would be ok with ( not that I like it) it but I do understand, she deserves to feel beautiful, wanted, needed and I can't do that for her right now. It is too scary for her. She hasn't filed yet and I'm not sure she will. She is doing these things thinking that I would be so pissed off that I would turn my back and go. I am trying to be all the things I wasnt, generous, compassionate, empathetic. I hope that one day when the fog clears she will see that I have changed and can give her the love she deserves. Because she has said over and over that she needs space. I am now ready to give it to her. I will be doing a 180 so she can see what it might be like without me doing all of these things for her. Not in anger, but I can't keep putting my heart out to be hurt. I want to do things like leave her unsigned notes etc. but fell like it might push her away. The notes I have left are still in the places I left them...on her computer, in her car etc. But now Im not sure what to do. do I back off completely be nice but not engaging? Or do I continue to try to woo her. Like I said I get so many mixed signals. Last week we went to get a coffee and hugged, later she texted that my smell was all over her. I asked her later about it and she said she liked it. But 2 days later she went to see her therapist and she told her to cutoff contact for awhile. It was the next day I found out she was seeing the guy she had said was just a friend. I felt like the rug got pulled out from under me. should I be wooing her still. I feel like if I don't cut her off she has no reason to come back. She gets her cake and gets to eat it too. the fear of loss is greater than the desire for gain. if she doenst see that I am ready to move on I feel like i this limbo could last forever. Thoughts?

She would never ask for the kids, she's not that way.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

do NOT 
DO NOT
DO NOT!!!!!..... try to woo her!

She needs space from you, so give it to her. She needs to experience life away from you and begin to miss you wen her boy toy can't fill her needs the way you can. 180 is the only thing you can do for her and herself, as well it's the best thing for her.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Aren't i just prolonging the inevitable? Isn't the writing on the wall? Today we talked about some concert ticket i bought for us and for a show tin October. She said it sucked because she wanted to go with me but that it wasn't a good idea right now?? WTF am I supposed to glean from those types of comments? that she is trying to find her way back or that she wishes we could be friends. i not sure how much longer i can do this. she did wait 2.5 years for me to pull my head out of my ass but I feel like I am rowing upstream. everyday is a struggle. can I do this for another month..another year? meanwhile she is seeing another guy?


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

This is why you need to put Nsweet's advice to use, NOW. I am an "Nsweet graduate" myself. Trust me, it works. It is against what you feel should be right but it works. Yes, she wants to be friends so she can bang this guy and have you to call when times are tough for her or when the OM can't be around. I go through this with my STBXW as well. In order for the friend thing to work, you have to pass the marshmallow test with her. What that means is you CANNOT care about what comes out of her mouth. If she talks about the OM, you grin and bear it with NO emotion. If she talks about how great the sex is with him, you show NO emotion. When you can get to that point, you can be friends. Until then, no contact is the way to go so you can work on you. 

You have to let the baby have her bottle. She must experience life without you. While she is doing this, you have your "hall pass" to go out and have some fun yourself. You may decide not to "cheat" on your WW so to speak but this does not limit or keep you from going on platonic dates with other women. A little jealousy on her part might work to your advantage here. You see, you have something the OM doesn't, HISTORY with her. Use it to your advantage. Best of luck to you for you have a hard and difficult road ahead no matter what path you choose.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Married in VA said:


> This is why you need to put Nsweet's advice to use, NOW. I am an "Nsweet graduate" myself. Trust me, it works. It is against what you feel should be right but it works. Yes, she wants to be friends so she can bang this guy and have you to call when times are tough for her or when the OM can't be around. I go through this with my STBXW as well. In order for the friend thing to work, you have to pass the marshmallow test with her. What that means is you CANNOT care about what comes out of her mouth. If she talks about the OM, you grin and bear it with NO emotion. If she talks about how great the sex is with him, you show NO emotion. When you can get to that point, you can be friends. Until then, no contact is the way to go so you can work on you.
> 
> You have to let the baby have her bottle. She must experience life without you. While she is doing this, you have your "hall pass" to go out and have some fun yourself. You may decide not to "cheat" on your WW so to speak but this does not limit or keep you from going on platonic dates with other women. A little jealousy on her part might work to your advantage here. You see, you have something the OM doesn't, HISTORY with her. Use it to your advantage. Best of luck to you for you have a hard and difficult road ahead no matter what path you choose.


Married in VA is a wise man.

I could have just "liked" his post.

That would have been insufficient.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

She said yesterday that she wants an uncontested divorce, and that she'd like to do it next week. I asked if we could go to therapy 1st to see if there was anything left, but she said the this chapter in our lives needed to be over and the we could go see the therapist afterwords to see. We are still getting along fine. She calls everyday about something or other related to the kids. Said about some concert fix we bought that she was sad because she wanted to see those shows with me. If she is so confused why won't she ditch this guy and actually work on her issues. she has taken no responsibility for anything with regards to the demise of our marriage. its all my fault. i don't want things to end this way. I feel there is something there to salve, for me for her and for our kids, I just don't get it. If she would have come to me, confessed her part, apologized, stopped drinking, and made every effort to show me she had changed and was willing to continue ( as I have) I would have given it another shot for everyone involved. Why is use doing this? Her friends, her family everyone she knows and loves want to see us back together. Why can't she love me for the man I am instead of holding on to the past. She had a big part in this too why can't she see it?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

BTW I have been doing the 180. Not calling not texting unless she does. Told her i was happy to fill out the D paperwork, that i thought that was best. I lied, but she seems content not to talk about reconciling has even said that is what caused her nervous breakdown.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Still seeing this other guy that has no potential whatsoever. I don't thing i can even go to MC while she is still seeing him. Can I ? Seems stupid. I thought about asking (again)respectfully to see the MC before we finalized because it is such a huge decision.But if she still seeing this guy what is the point. Do I try to drag it out hoping that she will come out of her fog and see what she is doing? I am totally lost.


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## IrocTransam (Aug 29, 2012)

Go to MC, it is to help YOU not her. It helps blow off steam, you can vent without fear and most of all, you will almost always come out feeling better. 
I personally have been going to MC since Febuary without her, she goes alone but only a few times since Feb, and I always feel better after. MC is not only to talk about your relationship TOOLittle, it is also about YOU. The main character in your story. One day, when she is ready to admit she has a problem, you can forgive her and take her back or help her and be friends again. This is what I am trying to do myself. I have a soon to be 2 year old beautiful daughter, and I am doing this for her not my wife. I love my wife and would do ANYTHING for her but we gotta help ourselfs first, just like she has to help herself by admitting she is outta control. Until then...you can not help her. My wife is in need of help, but until she admits she needs it, I can not do anything for her. It sucks and is hard but sadly it is true. 
Goodluck to all of us in the same boat.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

i have decided to let her go. she has done some really ugly things in the last 2 months and i have been a doormat. Given her extra money, sending her to san diego to clear her head (drunk the whole time) took the kids for a month while she had a nervous breakdown (was with BF the whole time). She played me into doing all of these things while not being honest with me about what she was doing. that is unfair. I was funding her drunken escapades with this new dude under the guise of her "working" on herself. And her new shoes..3 pairs at 200 a pop. Talk about easy living. I am really seeing that she is not someone that I can be with. Not now, maybe not ever again. I went with her to a school function for the kids yesterday and heard her talking to the kids in a way that was mean and derogatory and remembered just then why we split in the first place. She speaks to people like they are pieces of ****. That is why I distanced myself from her from the start. Just thinking about being in the same home gave me flashbacks of what was wrong in the 1st place. Why I left in the 1st place. she is one of the most manipulative people I know.

I do love her and wish so much that things could be right. For all of us. But Im just not sure that she could ever realize what she's done recently or in the past to hurt all of us. She is so selfish right now. Im not so sure she has it in her to see it. Everything in her life is someone else's fault. She take no responsibility for any of the choices she has made or hasn't made. I can't nor will I ever live like that again. Not even a "thanks for taking the kids while I was a mess". I didnt do it her for but it would still be nice to hear. I hope someday that she get right with herself and can see the hurt she has caused in the last few months and can own up to her part in the marriage. Not holding my breath. Now getting ready for the money battle. She is going to flip, and do what she always does, turn it around on me. Wish me luck.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sounds like everything you did was to try and "nice" her out of it - wouldn't you say?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Any advice Conrad or Nsweet?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Completely, trying to show her that I had changed and could be a better man. It didn't work. What now?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Completely, trying to show her that I had changed and could be a better man. It didn't work. What now?


How about being a man - instead of a niceguy?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

i didn't give her the time of day yesterday. she didn't like it. going to continue. She was crying when i saw her this am saying she had no money. i said i could lend her 100 bucks (dumb move) she said she didn't know when she could pay me back. Normally I would just transfer the money..not today. gotta work on not being a fixer. She has to weather this storm alone. It want she wants after all. getting better at it every day.no more slip ups..no more saving.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

anything else I should be doing or is not the sufficient?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> i didn't give her the time of day yesterday. she didn't like it. going to continue. She was crying when i saw her this am saying she had no money. i said i could lend her 100 bucks (dumb move) she said she didn't know when she could pay me back. Normally I would just transfer the money..not today. gotta work on not being a fixer. She has to weather this storm alone. It want she wants after all. getting better at it every day.no more slip ups..no more saving.


Keep reading.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Anything in particular?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

And when you say try being a man, what exactly do you mean?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Anything in particular?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...48758-my-shattered-vision-long-post-blog.html

Being a man is standing up for yourself - without being angry.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Anything in particular?



http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...48758-my-shattered-vision-long-post-blog.html
Read this one from beginning to end.

It's about a man who simply worships his wife and tries to give her all sorts of room so she can "heal".


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

*Synthetic's 10 Commandments*:

1. Read this link - *Just Let Them Go*

2. Follow the following rules: *The 180 degree rules*

3. Read this book in the next 24 hours: https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glo...r_Nice_Guy.pdf

4. Separate all finances and stop supporting her 'single' lifestyle

5. Book a counseling appointment ASAP

6. Doesn't matter how you do it, but *sweat the pain of anxiety out*. Treadmills are your best friend. Use them. This is very important: You need to physically feel spent before you hit bed every night. 

7. Think a lot, read a lot, and cry as needed - This particular link should be open in your browser at all times and read multiple times: DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?

8. Find your social worth by socializing with as many people as possible (females work better). Spend times with friends, but don't just settle for your circle of friends. This is the best time to make new ones and feel attractive/attracted. You're not looking for sex or a relationship. You're looking for natural human attraction between you and others.

9. Do whatever it takes to go on a trip that involves a long flight, preferably to a country where English or your first language is not spoken

10. Start living an 'overly' fun life without feeling any guilt. This is the hardest task ahead. It's important to wash the guilt out of yourself once you have realized where it originates from via all the reading and counseling you've done.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Ok Conrad I get it. Long thread but was worth the time. She wants a no contest divorce so she can keep bilking the state out of assistance. She has told them I am a threat to her safety and that is why she can't get child support from me. I give her $1500 per month. Supposed to get $700. Not gonna do it. Going to an atty this week to talk to him about how to handle it. Don't want it to get ugly but don't think its avoidable. She is going to flip. Everything has been amicable up til now (because I have been kissing her ass) doing 180. Don't really want talk to her, thank god. Gonna take your advice and be a man.


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Ok, I am confused. Who has she told that you are a threat to her safety. Does she have a restraining order against you? Why are you giving her 1500 dollars per month? Are you under a court order to do so? Why are you giving her over twice what you are saying you are being told to pay? Why is she going to be upset?

A contested or uncontested divorce has no bearing on whether she gets state assistance or not. In all 50 states, if you are married she is NOT eligible for state assistance unless your COMBINED incomes are under a certain level. She may be committing fraud. What state do you live in? If she is on public assistance and find out she is married, they will come after YOU to pay it back and will make her file for spousal support. Make sure you discuss your full situation with your attorney. Something here is not right.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Think Im going to send this to her on Friday.

You have made your choice. You can be with Sean because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Think Im going to send this to her on Friday.
> 
> You have made your choice. You can be with Sean because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."


If you really don't want a divorce, do nothing.

Don't pay any legal fees, period.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

VA we have been separated for 2.5 years and I agreed to give her $1500 per month at that time. She said she wanted a divorce 2 months ago and I have been trying to nice her into coming back. Last week I found out she had be lying to me for 1.5 months about being in a relationship with a guy from work. I tried to nice my way out of that as well but of course it didn't work. She is committing fraud. She has been telling the state that I give her no support so she can get assistance. We live in Oregon. We were never legally seperated it was a verbal agreement. the state calc says i would owe her $700 per month when we divorce.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

don't contact an atty? she is going to call me this week and ask to meet about the no contest. what then? do i just keep giving her the $1500?? If not she will file I'm sure.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> don't contact an atty? she is going to call me this week and ask to meet about the no contest. what then? do i just keep giving her the $1500?? If not she will file I'm sure.


Stop giving her anything.

"I'm not ok with paying you to leave me"

Let her file.

You get your attorney when she does.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

She has the kids half time, i don't want to cause any more upheaval for them.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Syn. Is it cheating if we are separated? We have been separated for 2.5 years acting (sort of like a couple) not seeing other people. The day after we had a blow up in therapy she was out with this guy. and has lied about it for 1.5 months until I found out last week. Has said she wants divorce since but hasn't done anything about it. has even said she wants family back but needs time. Said yesterday she wants to meet to do uncontested divorce next week i said fine. Have been doing 180 since. Any insight greatly appreciated.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Syn. Is it cheating if we are separated? We have been separated for 2.5 years acting (sort of like a couple) not seeing other people. The day after we had a blow up in therapy she was out with this guy. and has lied about it for 1.5 months until I found out last week. Has said she wants divorce since but hasn't done anything about it. has even said she wants family back but needs time. Said yesterday she wants to meet to do uncontested divorce next week i said fine. Have been doing 180 since. Any insight greatly appreciated.


She willing to pay for the divorce?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Syn. Is it cheating if we are separated? We have been separated for 2.5 years acting (sort of like a couple) not seeing other people. The day after we had a blow up in therapy she was out with this guy. and has lied about it for 1.5 months until I found out last week. Has said she wants divorce since but hasn't done anything about it. has even said she wants family back but needs time. Said yesterday she wants to meet to do uncontested divorce next week i said fine. Have been doing 180 since. Any insight greatly appreciated.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

No contest is 150 bucks so yes I'm sure she would be. But I can't do the uncontested. too much exposure. not enough control. have been advised against it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> No contest is 150 bucks so yes I'm sure she would be. But I can't do the uncontested. too much exposure. not enough control. have been advised against it.


"I'm not ok with uncontested divorce"

All you have to say.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

And can't afford an atty? Force her hand..and stay with the 180.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

When I read the post you forwarded everyone was encouraging him to just file so she knew he meant business, stop the gravy train. not is my case and if not why? What do i do when the end of the month come and i am supposed o give her $ again. how do i get her to back off the divo and cut this dip**** loose?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> When I read the post you forwarded everyone was encouraging him to just file so she knew he meant business, stop the gravy train. not is my case and if not why? What do i do when the end of the month come and i am supposed o give her $ again. how do i get her to back off the divo and cut this dip**** loose?


"I'm not ok paying you to live with another man."


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

She doesn't live with him. She has my 3 kids 2 weeks a month. and has been with him while not with the kids. It would create upheaval for them if I stopped giving her any money. Need to protect them. How do I do that and accomplish my goals?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> She doesn't live with him. She has my 3 kids 2 weeks a month. and has been with him while not with the kids. It would create upheaval for them if I stopped giving her any money. Need to protect them. How do I do that and accomplish my goals?


What are your goals?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

To get her to pull he head out of her ass and realize what she is in jeopardy of losing. I want my family back.Classic signs of MLC.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> To get her to pull he head out of her ass and realize what she is in jeopardy of losing. I want my family back.Classic signs of MLC.


You can't get her to do anything. Let her go. She will find her way back to you if that is what she wants.

Now what are you going to do for yourself?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

I am ready and willing to let her go. What do I do about the divorce talk.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I am ready and willing to let her go. What do I do about the divorce talk.


Tell her she can have the divorce if she wants to pay for it.

Send you the papers and you'll respond.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

You let her go and get to work healing yourself.

Tell her you don't want a divorce, but if that is what she wants she can have one.

Then you tell her you are not ok with paying for things you dont want.

The D is her choice and is on her dime.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks guys. Ill just wait for her to bring it up again and let her know that I can't do the uncontested D and that she can have it if she wants to pay for it. What do i do at the end of the month when I am supposed to give her child support? I want her to feel the sting a bit of realizing what it might be like when/if we do D. We have a verbal agmt in place that is far more than she would get in a D.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks guys. Ill just wait for her to bring it up again and let her know that I can't do the uncontested D and that she can have it if she wants to pay for it. What do i do at the end of the month when I am supposed to give her child support? I want her to feel the sting a bit of realizing what it might be like when/if we do D. We have a verbal agmt in place that is far more than she would get in a D.


If you feel you "must" send money, send the amount she will get in the divorce.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Conrad said:


> If you feel you "must" send money, send the amount she will get in the divorce.


Verbal agreements mean jack squat.

DO NOT give anything more than is required in the divorce.

If you do, you are asking for trouble as you will set a new 'status quo' if this goes on for a while before the D is finalized.

She could try and set a new 'standard of living for her and the 'kids''.

Figure out what she would get (as you can find it I'm sure online) and then write it in CHECKS.

Paper trails!

I have made a lot of mistakes in the time we separated, but one thing I have never changed is giving her child support checks for what I deemed close to what she would get via the divorce anyways.

Last week I gave her $50 for .. groceries, although I'm sure that money went to something else.

Either way, I wrote it in a check and in the memo I put "I hope this helps".

Seems a little ****y maybe? But I wanted to make note that I was attempting to aid her in her so called 'time of need'.

That's the only money I've given her.

She is also not helping in the costs of the kids necessities (school shoes, daughters dance outfit) so I am now saving all the receipts, bought a 13 slot portfolio folder.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Verbal agreements mean jack squat.
> 
> DO NOT give anything more than is required in the divorce.
> 
> ...



So what does delaying the D do for me other than putting off the inevitable? Shouldn't I file to show her that I am ready to move on?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> So what does delaying the D do for me other than putting off the inevitable? Shouldn't I file to show her that I am ready to move on?


Didn't you say you don't want the divorce?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Didn't you say you don't want the divorce?


Yes. But what am I getting by allowing her to control the situation?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Yes. But what am I getting by allowing her to control the situation?


The consequences of her actions.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> The consequences of her actions.


So when she calls and asks to meet regarding the D. I say I don't want the D your going to need to file if that is what you want?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> So when she calls and asks to meet regarding the D. I say I don't want the D your going to need to file if that is what you want?


She's asking for uncontested correct?

That's a non-starter anyway.

"Someone" is going to have to file.

I think the person who wants the divorce should drive it.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She's asking for uncontested correct?
> 
> That's a non-starter anyway.
> 
> ...


Funny how when it comes up.... (when I ask) she always says she wants a divorce but has done nothing about it in 2 months. I think I'll quit asking.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Funny how when it comes up.... (when I ask) she always says she wants a divorce but has done nothing about it in 2 months. I think I'll quit asking.


That's what I would do.

I would also follow-through on reducing the monthly money.

(I would actually cut it off entirely, but that's just me)


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That's what I would do.
> 
> I would also follow-through on reducing the monthly money.
> 
> (I would actually cut it off entirely, but that's just me)


How would you rationalize that? As I said my kids are with her 2 weeks out of the month. She is a great Mom (normally) I just don't know how to do that without making myself look like an *******. Not that I care what she thinks but her family, our friends, the kids etc.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> How would you rationalize that? As I said my kids are with her 2 weeks out of the month. She is a great Mom (normally) I just don't know how to do that without making myself look like an *******. Not that I care what she thinks but her family, our friends, the kids etc.


All their needs come ahead of yours? Their opinions?

You think you can nice your way to a fulfilling life?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> All their needs come ahead of yours? Their opinions?
> 
> You think you can nice your way to a fulfilling life?


No I don't but don't want to have my kids suffer any more than they have to. they do come first as they are innocent bystanders. There mother has already gone thru one nervous breakdown. I don't want to be the perceived cause of the next one. At least by them.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> No I don't but don't want to have my kids suffer any more than they have to. they do come first as they are innocent bystanders. There mother has already gone thru one nervous breakdown. I don't want to be the perceived cause of the next one. At least by them.


She had her breakdown as a result of you leaving her?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She had her breakdown as a result of you leaving her?


No..she asked for the D. I think she broke down because of the the guilt of lying about the OM. But what do i know. Her therapist ( whom she hasn't told about the OM I think) said she was i mourning and needed space.She says it was because we were talking about the relationship all the time. That she has been able to pull it together in the last week because she has not had the pressure of having to talk about it and think about being a wife.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> No..she asked for the D. I think she broke down because of the the guilt of lying about the OM. But what do i know. Her therapist ( whom she hasn't told about the OM I think) said she was i mourning and needed space.She says it was because we were talking about the relationship all the time. That she has been able to pull it together in the last week because she has not had the pressure of having to talk about it and think about being a wife.


Then give her less money to think about.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Ohhhhhh dear. 

Guy, you're going down the same road I started before I re-ignited my jets. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconc...g-one-here-we-go-post1045848.html#post1045848

Once you instill the boundaries, once you man up, once you show a SHRED of happiness...you'll see things differently.

50,000 feet. You need to get there, you NEED to get there NOW, before you do something you're going to regret.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

SkyHigh said:


> Ohhhhhh dear.
> 
> Guy, you're going down the same road I started before I re-ignited my jets.
> 
> ...


i am in the process. starting to get angry for the way I have allowed her to that me during this last 2 months. I tried to lay my heart out and apologize for everyting..stopped drinking (my way of creating distance and avoiding vulnerability) but it wanst enough. haven't spoken to her in 2 days. she has called but I have ignored her calls. has called to talk to the kids so I had them call her back. my problem is that when this started i took all of the blame (she never does probably never will) I have stopped caring that she is with OM. And am trying to move on. I need to fix myself and quit trying to fix her. It is so hard watching someone you love make all the wrong (by my standards) decisions. Same old story..our relationship was bad..but not all my fault. Why is it that they don't take any responsibility for their actions.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Because they're immature and don't care until they are forced into a position where they HAVE to. 

By that point it may be too late for them to work ANYTHING out with you, but that's not your fault, not your problem, not anything regarding you.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

SkyHigh said:


> Because they're immature and don't care until they are forced into a position where they HAVE to.
> 
> By that point it may be too late for them to work ANYTHING out with you, but that's not your fault, not your problem, not anything regarding you.
> 
> ...


No she told me in MC. It shocked me into seeing what an a hole I had been. I owned up to it all. Fear of attachment, turning to booze etc. She never owned up to anything. Never has..never will i fear. Led me to believe the was a chance for R..to her credit did say she didn't know how long it would take but did send tons of mixed messages and lied to my face 3 times about OM until a mutual friend told me last week. Since then..nothing. Have been a 180 since except for telling her I loved her unconditionally. Known her for 22 years great friends for 8 years not so good as a couple we had similar up bringings (****ty) Im not so sure it could ever work but I am willing to give it a try in spite of what she has done recently. I feel like she is in a fog that she has to come out of. Don't know how much longer i can hold out tho. I want my family back.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

FCS, I have my threads mixed up!!!

I'm sorry. Rofl.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

SkyHigh said:


> FCS, I have my threads mixed up!!!
> 
> I'm sorry. Rofl.


Im not asking her to be perfect. I know Im not. I just wish she knew what she was losing. she is 40 with 3 kids. I am an amazing Dad and have committed to being an amazing husband. Is her heart so dead that she can't see it. I know there is a chance for us but she can't..not right now. Turning my back on her (not mean) feels so unnatural. Think she thought we could be friends thru all this. Sorry you have an OM and have done some efed up stuff in the last 2 months (totally out of character) it is like I am watching a movie of someone else's effed up life


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Good, good...keep watching that movie...just distance yourself from it a bit.

You may have been a great ANYTHING, but until she sees it for herself, you won't be much in her eyes. 

Do me a favour. PM me your e-mail. I have something for you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She had a bad childhood. If she admits blame, she believes swift punishment follows. This fear immobilizes her. So she blameshifts in defense.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She had a bad childhood. If she admits blame, she believes swift punishment follows. This fear immobilizes her. So she blameshifts in defense.


That is what I did too until the dropped the D bomb and I realized that I couldn't live that way anymore. I finally saw the damage it had done to me and to us. Not so sure she can do it. Do I give her the opportunity or just realize it will never happen? Sad.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

I guess swift punishment did follow she has an OM.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Quick test to confirm Conrad's statement.

Without making it an OBVIOUS blamefest...state something that she's done.

See what you get back.

A snappy "Alright" with nothing more is basically her way of sticking her fingers in her ears and going NYAH NYAH NYAH NYAH.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SkyHigh said:


> Quick test to confirm Conrad's statement.
> 
> Without making it an OBVIOUS blamefest...state something that she's done.
> 
> ...


I see you've lived this.

What generally happens is she will explain "why" what SHE DID makes sense in this context BECAUSE you did X and she was left with "no choice"

Certainly you understand that, right Mr. NiceGuy?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

So you think by giving her more than is required money wise .. that will mean you are 'doing the right thing'?

Figure out the legal amount owed and make it that.

No more, no less.

Here's a question for you.

If this gets nasty, do you think she will go after every single dime you 'haven't' given her?

My money is on .. yes.

So, you give her what is outlined in the government guidelines for having 'x' amount of children and no more.

Like I said, I have made many mistakes throughout the last 5 months but the one thing I am glad I stuck to was the amount of money I have given her.

I have never felt guilty about it.

Give her what she is owed, nothing more.

Paper trail it.

Checks, checks, checks! Label what month it is for in the memo, what it is (child support) and any other information required.

"He never gives me child support!!!!!"

"Oh really?"

"Yes! That a-hole has been leaving me and the kids out to dry because he cannot come to terms with this being over!"

"Then why is there 5 months of photo copied checks clearly labeled for each month that states child support .. you cashed them."

"......"


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

What do you think about this letter about going to MC before divorce?

I have been doing some thinking and have come to realize a few things...As much as I want you in my life, I don't need you to be. I will be ok without you and you will be ok without me. I am glad you found someone that makes you happy. You deserve that. I am a great man who will have no problem finding that for myself as well. Given the magnitude of the decision to divorce, i would like to see an MC first so that we can learn how to navigate this situation with as much grace as possible, for us, but especially for the kids. I will make an appointment for us if you will let me know what day and time you are available.

This or do I just keep with the 180 and let her figure it out for herself?...I smell lumber.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> What do you think about this letter about going to MC before divorce?
> 
> I have been doing some thinking and have come to realize a few things...As much as I want you in my life, I don't need you to be. I will be ok without you and you will be ok without me. I am glad you found someone that makes you happy. You deserve that. I am a great man who will have no problem finding that for myself as well. Given the magnitude of the decision to divorce, i would like to see an MC first so that we can learn how to navigate this situation with as much grace as possible, for us, but especially for the kids. I will make an appointment for us if you will let me know what day and time you are available.
> 
> This or do I just keep with the 180 and let her figure it out for herself?...I smell lumber.


No lumber needed if you haven't sent it.

As for the letter, you sound like me a month ago.

If you really do believe what you say, about not needing her then the letter isn't required.

Words won't do anything, actions will.

So if you actually stand behind what you wrote, then you act like it.

Magnitude? You don't need me, you're happy with someone else, for us.

Do you see what those are all saying?

You're telling her how she feels and what she needs.

Telling her things like that will only be seen as manipulation and I'm not saying you are, but subconsciously I bet there is a part of you hoping it "shakes her out of it."


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> No lumber needed if you haven't sent it.
> 
> As for the letter, you sound like me a month ago.
> 
> ...


Didn't send it..just an idea. and you are spot on. about the hope part. so just do the do and hope she comes the the conclusion herself? how do I get her back into MC without looking like a ****? I know there is something there but she is too scared to grab it.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Didn't send it..just an idea. and you are spot on. about the hope part. so just do the do and hope she comes the the conclusion herself? how do I get her back into MC without looking like a ****? I know there is something there but she is too scared to grab it.


You're still missing the point here.

You can't get her to do anything.

Unless you're a mind reader, you also cannot say she's too scared to do anything.

Stop projecting your hopes and desires onto her.

There isn't anything you can do, its up to her.

Nothing for you to fix, other than yourself.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Not sure why I keep forgetting that. Trying to control something that can't be controlled.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Not sure why I keep forgetting that. Trying to control something that can't be controlled.


You're not alone.

Only 3 weeks ago I was doing exactly what I'm telling you not to.

Which is why I'm so insistent on it.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You're not alone.
> 
> Only 3 weeks ago I was doing exactly what I'm telling you not to.
> 
> Which is why I'm so insistent on it.


How are things progressing for you?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> How are things progressing for you?


It's leading to divorce.

But, it was headed that way regardless of my actions.

She wanted me to think otherwise though and had me going for a while.

I'm still recovering from not keeping to myself.

I thought I could show her "I changed". Instead all I proved was that I need to detach.

Even giving her what she wanted (the separation, etc) she always found ways to blame me for it not working out.

It's how she validates herself.

Apparently she was waiting for me to man up, I lost 50 lbs, became a more dedicated father, haven't missed a day of work, done all the work to separate our lives.

Yet, she only looked at what she wanted to see and used it as validation.

If your ex wants you back, she will do whatever it takes to let you know.

There isn't one thing you can do to trigger it.

Because if you need to do something to "make" it happen, what will happen once you get tired of changing yourself into someone you aren't just to have her around.

Reduce your child support to what it should be.

The only thing you're proving is what a great doormat you are.

She will kick and scream.

So what.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

I did the same thing..didnt work, not even close. Tried like hell to prove to her that I had changed. Actions speak louder than words. She needs to feel what it will be like without me kissing her ass 24/7. Now all she gets is Hi and Bye. Gotta focus on myself and make sure I never get myself in a relationship like this ever again. Easier said than done but I gotta do it.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I did the same thing..didnt work, not even close. Tried like hell to prove to her that I had changed. Actions speak louder than words. She needs to feel what it will be like without me kissing her ass 24/7. Now all she gets is Hi and Bye. Gotta focus on myself and make sure I never get myself in a relationship like this ever again. Easier said than done but I gotta do it.


Honestly Im not sure why I even give a ****. We were separated for 2.5 years and while I hoped we would figure it out..even up until 2 months ago I did care. I loved her but I didn't want to go back to feeling like a piece of ****, being talked to that way, hearing my kids be talked to that way. She begged me to come back a year ago. I couldn't. I was too scared to go back to that.I loved her but..When she dropped the D bomb it all flipped on me. I saw the err of my ways while she admitted to nothing but "all I ever did was love you" she justifies her actions now. Saying she is too scared to give me her heart again. How is it that can both be scared ****less of each other. What a cluster. She now says I owe her, for being a stay at home mom for 10 years. Meanwhile she hasn't done anything for herself during the separation. She is entitled, scared and bitter. When does someone take responsibility for the choices they make in life and quit blaming others. Why am I fighting for this?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

She feels entitled,.so how can she be scared?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Good question. she has said in (earlier) vulnerable moments that she is scared if she told me she loved me I would laugh in her face. On another occasion 2 weeks ago she said that if she gave me her heart again she was afraid I would step all over it again. That it had only been 2 months..she need more time to forget. But not to forget about the OM I guess. Is she really confused? Looking to another man to fill the void? A guy that she would never introduce to the kids to? (her words) and from what I hear about from her friends who aren't fans either.. I would never let her. I don't get it. Does she lack self esteem so much the she needs someone around just to feel ok about herself? Apparently so. I just don't get it. Again need to stop focusing on her and the stupid things she is doing. They will catch up to her soon enough.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Nothing to do with self esteem.

Everything to do with not having anyone else to finally blame but herself.

What exactly does she.want to forget? Everything she should actually be owning?

Telling you she wouldn't introduce the kids to posom is nothing but another validation.

"it's okay because the kids will never see him, or know about him."

As for the "you'll break my heart if I give it to you".

More like "how long can I get my way until you don't take the blame shifting anymore."

You are focusing way too much on her and in that time try to rationalize what she says.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

I was not a perfect husband, not by any stretch. But totally owned it and apologized. She has done nothing but pile on more **** to have to forgive her for. You are spot on I hear you. Gonna go dark for a bit until something comes up I need some advice on. TAM is awesome but I think I need a break for now. Need to get my head right. Thanks so much to everyone for the great insight. you are all a gift.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

ok I'm back and need some help. I have been doing the 180 and saw her for the 1st time in a week. dropped the kids off to her and left..said goodbye and she asked if I was mad...I said I was not that I was just taking space. she stood there with tears in her eyes and asked if we could talk. she asked what was wrong and I said nothing that i was just doing me. she asked if that felt good and I said it is way it is. told me she felt distant and uncomfortable. I told her that it is uncomfortable, would be, and will be for a long time. she asked if I was "being with someone" I said none of your business told her this is what you wanted. left it at that. she called this am to discuss the liquidation of the kids college fund to pay her bills. she seems to feel like she is owed that money and will have to file bk without it. I said no way we are liquidating it unless it is to pay off the 2 credit cards we have. she then begins to tell me how effed she is and how she is the one left with nothing, no money no career etc. I again reminded her that I didn't want this..she says none of us did. I said lets go to mc before this gets to a point of no return. she agreed albeit reluctantly. still has posOM which she says has no future is just casual.

ok here is my real question.. do we go to mc without her being fully committed to fixing this? i know she still has reservations about it. do i overlook those, or take the oppo to get to mc. honestly I am at a point where I can take it or leave it. I want her in my life and want my family back but know I don't need her and the insanity of it all. everything that has ever gone wrong in the last 13 years including where she stands today is my fault. no exceptions. I can't go back to that. ok so the mc thing. take advantage of the oppo or let go.

sorry for the detail just wanted to reflect what exactly is going on.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

ok I'm back and need some help. I have been doing the 180 and saw her for the 1st time in a week. dropped the kids off to her and left..said goodbye and she asked if I was mad...I said I was not that I was just taking space. she stood there with tears in her eyes and asked if we could talk. she asked what was wrong and I said nothing that i was just doing me. she asked if that felt good and I said it is way it is. told me she felt distant and uncomfortable. I told her that it is uncomfortable, would be, and will be for a long time. she asked if I was "being with someone" I said none of your business told her this is what you wanted. left it at that. she called this am to discuss the liquidation of the kids college fund to pay her bills. she seems to feel like she is owed that money and will have to file bk without it. I said no way we are liquidating it unless it is to pay off the 2 credit cards we have. she then begins to tell me how effed she is and how she is the one left with nothing, no money no career etc. I again reminded her that I didn't want this..she says none of us did. I said lets go to mc before this gets to a point of no return. she agreed albeit reluctantly. still has posOM which she says has no future is just casual.

ok here is my real question.. do we go to mc without her being fully committed to fixing this? i know she still has reservations about it. do i overlook those, or take the oppo to get to mc. honestly I am at a point where I can take it or leave it. I want her in my life and want my family back but know I don't need her and the insanity of it all. everything that has ever gone wrong in the last 13 years including where she stands today is my fault. no exceptions. I can't go back to that. ok so the mc thing. take advantage of the oppo or let go.

sorry for the detail just wanted to reflect what exactly is going on.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

....

So life isn't what she thought it would be.

You're her Plan B.

You did good on some parts, telling her that it was none of her business who you are suing.

Reminding her that it was "her idea" doesn't do any good.

It's about you and not about her at this point and that's why she is doing this now.

She cannot believe you are moving on.

So now she will go to MC to try and validate her decisions and get that emotional boost you no longer support.

How can you tell? She's still "casually" (BS) seeing posom.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

posOM has GOT TO GO before any counseling sessions begin.

And, no, you should not mortgage your kids future to pay for her ridiculous behavior.

Let her file bk.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Rescuer TLTL to the rescue!

No.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> posOM has GOT TO GO before any counseling sessions begin.
> 
> And, no, you should not mortgage your kids future to pay for her ridiculous behavior.
> 
> Let her file bk.


Ok so how about something like this..

I have spoken to MC and she is open to seeing us again. here is what I will need in order to feel comfortable seeing her with you again. You will break off any relationship with posOM and be committed to working our relationship. When/if you are ready the invitation is open. If neither of those are an option I undersatnd and ask that you file for D and I will have my attorney respond.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Rescuer TLTL to the rescue!
> 
> No.


What is rescuer TLTL?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> What is rescuer TLTL?


Have you ever heard of the victim triangle?

An Overview of the Drama Triangle

Notice the role of "rescuer" in this article and diagrams.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> What is rescuer TLTL?


That's you.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

jdlash said:


> That's you.


Guilty as charged.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Have you ever heard of the victim triangle?
> 
> An Overview of the Drama Triangle
> 
> Notice the role of "rescuer" in this article and diagrams.


Spot on. Do I forward this to her? Probably a waste of time but I dont want to have to deal with this ****e for the rest of my life co parenting with her.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Spot on. Do I forward this to her? Probably a waste of time but I dont want to have to deal with this ****e for the rest of my life co parenting with her.


5 months ago I was shown the same thing.

I asked the same question.

This is for you, not her.

It has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you.

Observing is how you stay out of the triangle.

I used to be a strong advocate for it, still believe in it.. but I feel way too far from it a while ago to remain confident in advising it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Spot on. Do I forward this to her? Probably a waste of time but I dont want to have to deal with this ****e for the rest of my life co parenting with her.


Would you be trying to fix her by sending it?

If not, what would be your purpose?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Would you be trying to fix her by sending it?
> 
> If not, what would be your purpose?


Again spot on...so frustrating.

How about this? 

MC says she would be happy to see us again. I can't go until your relationship with posUM is done. Let me know when you are ready.

Do I give a drop dead date or is this just a bad idea all together. I am beginning to tire of all of this and just walk.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Again spot on...so frustrating.
> 
> How about this?
> 
> ...


"I'm not ok with going to counseling with posOM still in the picture"

(Don't be afraid of her response. That's been your problem for far too long)


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Ok so here goes. dropped kids off sunday and she stood in front of car crying. asked if we could talk. said she felt distant and uncomfortable asked if if as ok with that. told her is was the way it had to be. that is was uncomfortable and would be for some time. she asked if i was seeing someone. i told her none of her business. she went in and told the kids I went on a date. my son tells her that his best friend (lives across the street) saw her in the car with a man. she tells the kids she went on a date and then proceeds to tell them all about him and that he would like to meet them. she has been seeing him for 1.5 months he is a drunk and a loser. (her friends words) and says she is not interested in having a long term relationship with him. says that she will talk to me about having him over for dinner as a friend. WTF??

yesterday we are talking about kids and she says we need to get together tot talk about divorce. i tell her we have 3 options.. blow up family we worked so hard to create. d and try to keep some semblance of family or do things differently than we learned from our parents and make this work. she says I can't i have to focus on myself..talking about this is choking me. tell her to file and that I will reply. she says she is broke and is looking to file bk and this is just another way I will try to eff her. I said mediation? I know I fell off wagon bad. How do I get back on? she is having way too much fun with posOM and can't see that she is thinking of self not kids. that this will eventually blow up in her face.she is pushing D because she is broke. now thinking of intro to posUM? she is of the deep end. help!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

"I am not ok with introducing the kids to posOM"


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

How long til its ok? Not until we are divorced. Can you believe the gall of this woman? I don't know her anymore.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> "I am not ok with introducing the kids to posOM"


Any advice about continuing to try to R? feel like Im the end of my rope.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Any advice about continuing to try to R? feel like Im the end of my rope.


Stop attempting. Period. Thats what is bringing you to the end of your rope.

Start looking out for you. 

It's your only way to sanity, whether you end up in R or D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Any advice about continuing to try to R? feel like Im the end of my rope.


Get up to 50,000 feet in the air and observe her like you are meeting her for the first time.

What do you see?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Any advice about continuing to try to R? feel like Im the end of my rope.


She wants to introduce your kids to POSOM.

And you're thinking about R?

Really?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> She wants to introduce your kids to POSOM.
> 
> And you're thinking about R?
> 
> Really?


I hear you loud and clear. Not sure what I am thinking, actually I do..I don't want my kids to live like I did. Willing to do whatever it takes. But Conrad is right. If I met her for the 1st time today I would be repulsed. Just feel like it is a phase that she has to come out of eventually. She is not the woman I was married to. This me 1st attitude, I ruined her life. Her decision making is crazy, she has alienated and lied to her best friends, her family, etc. She says she is in such a great space but has gone to therapy once in the lat 3 months including her month long nervous breakdown. Something is wrong..but I know I can't fix it. Have to protect myself and the kids.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Get up to 50,000 feet in the air and observe her like you are meeting her for the first time.
> 
> What do you see?


It disgusts me Conrad. I don't even recognize her, one day she is crying asking if Im seeing someone, the next raging about how effed she is. pushing D because she is broke. I'm going to give her everything (not much) just to get her out of my life. I have to cut her loose and prey she doesn't eff up my kids with this bat crap behavior. Mediation next week. R could never happen unless she pulled her head out of her arse and came to grips with what she is doing. Bi Polar? I thought I could wait the fog out but I can't do it anymore.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> She wants to introduce your kids to POSOM.
> 
> And you're thinking about R?
> 
> Really?


how the eff do I keep her from introducing them to posUM? I am thinking of calling her Mom and her aunt and telling them what is going on. I don't want my kids having random men in their lives I have 2 daughters and a son for that matter that I need to protect.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> how the eff do I keep her from introducing them to posUM? I am thinking of calling her Mom and her aunt and telling them what is going on. I don't want my kids having random men in their lives I have 2 daughters and a son for that matter that I need to protect.


I think you can get a court order restricting sleepovers etc.

Call an attorney for a free consult if you can.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> She wants to introduce your kids to POSOM.
> 
> And you're thinking about R?
> 
> Really?


how the eff do I keep her from introducing them to posUM? I am thinking of calling her Mom and her aunt and telling them what is going on. I don't want my kids having random men in their lives I have 2 daughters and a son for that matter that I need to protect.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> how the eff do I keep her from introducing them to posUM? I am thinking of calling her Mom and her aunt and telling them what is going on. I don't want my kids having random men in their lives I have 2 daughters and a son for that matter that I need to protect.


Of course you should expose the affair to friends, family, co-workers, literally everyone you know.

Make it as difficult for them to carry on as possible.

And, do it dispassionately.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Of course you should expose the affair to friends, family, co-workers, literally everyone you know.
> 
> Make it as difficult for them to carry on as possible.
> 
> And, do it dispassionately.


What do you mean dispassionately? Is it an affair? I suppose we are still married so yes?

As an aside. My friend who is bi polar thinks that she is too. That this is a mania episode. She is definitely exhibiting the traits. Anyone have any experience with that. How do I get her help?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Dispassionately means don't be a fanatic.

You can expose their affair in writing, on phone, or in person.

It's just an FYI to family, friends, co-workers, that this is a choice she has made and they should no longer expect to see you associated with her.

As for "getting her help?"

Let her do that.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Letter to wife. comments and input please.



I've done some thinking and I think it is time for us to bring this marriage to a close. You have always been very clear that you felt like this chapter of our lives needed to end. I agree with you. I have been in denial about you moving on..thinking that time would make you change your mind. I realize now that it won't and that I I need to take care of myself and move on as well. I am happy that you have found someone to love you the way you need to be loved. You deserve that. Ive realized that as much as I want to be with you, I don't need to be with you.Ill be ok without you. Im am truly sorry that it has come to this. Please let me know when a good time for you to meet with the mediator might be so that we can part amicably for us and for the kids.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Letter
> Letter to wife. comments and input please.
> 
> 
> ...


Do not send it. It will not bring you the closure that you seek. She will not respond. And, she deserves no validation from you for her actions.

You move on if you are ready. She is the one that wants the D, she files.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

spun said:


> Do not send it. It will not bring you the closure that you seek. She will not respond. And, she deserves no validation from you for her actions.
> 
> You move on if you are ready. She is the one that wants the D, she files.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


spun is on this.

Listen to him.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Been there, wrote practically that, got me nowhere


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> Do not send it. It will not bring you the closure that you seek. She will not respond. And, she deserves no validation from you for her actions.
> 
> You move on if you are ready. She is the one that wants the D, she files.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spun/Conrad.

Ok so how does that keep me from being plan B? I need to move on but don't want her to think that I am an option anymore. every day is torture. It is clear that she has moved on. I am meeting with an atty today to figure out how the finances will go and then present to her. I am going to reduce the amt of money I am giving her and expect that will push her to D even tho we just agreed to postpone 6 months. She is very entitled and fells like I owe her because she was a stay at home mom for 10 years. Everything that is wrong with her life is my fault. I need to move on without her thinking I am on a string and she can do this push/pull thing with me. Why shouldn't I be assertive and file myself? I think i am going bat crap because I know I would never want to go back to the relationship the way it was, and that she won't get the help she needs to change. So why and what am I holding on to? thanks guys.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

What will bring me the closure I seek??


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

If you want a divorce, then file.

If you don't, then don't.

What is it you want?

The closure you seek will come when you work on yourself in IC and on this board. Strangely enough, you can get (and should get) that closure with or without her.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

The problem you have is thinking she has you on a string.

That she is making you plan b.

This will all change once you realize she doesn't have any control over you.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

In the mean time just continue the 180? Ive heard it doesn't work on BPD'er. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Any experience with this? Fact is that I couldn't go back to the relationship even if she asked me to tomorrow. We were separated for 2.5 years and we didn't R then because I was too scared to going back to a marriage that sucked me dry of all of my self worth, the arguing over nothing, the belittling. etc. Even if she did want to R now I would be jumping back on the hamster wheel of destruction.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> In the mean time just continue the 180? Ive heard it doesn't work on BPD'er. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Any experience with this? Fact is that I couldn't go back to the relationship even if she asked me to tomorrow. We were separated for 2.5 years and we didn't R then because I was too scared to going back to a marriage that sucked me dry of all of my self worth, the arguing over nothing, the belittling. etc. Even if she did want to R now I would be jumping back on the hamster wheel of destruction.


.... the 180 isn't about "working on her".

It's about you.

Your focus is all up in her grill and it will get YOU nowhere.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>Ive heard it doesn't work on BPD'er<<

What do you mean "work"?

Do you know what you want?


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> What will bring me the closure I seek??


*Synthetic's 10 Commandments*:

1. Read this link - *Just Let Them Go*

2. Follow the following rules: *The 180 degree rules*

3. Read this short book in the next 24 hours: No More Mr. Nice Guy

4. Separate all finances and stop supporting her 'single' lifestyle

5. Book a counseling appointment ASAP

6. Doesn't matter how you do it, but *sweat the pain of anxiety out*. Treadmills are your best friend. Use them. This is very important: You need to physically feel spent before you hit bed every night. 

7. Think a lot, read a lot, and cry as needed - This particular link should be open in your browser at all times and read multiple times: DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?

8. Find your social worth by socializing with as many people as possible (females work better). Spend time with friends, but don't just settle for your circle of friends. This is the best time to make new ones and feel attractive/attracted. You're not looking for sex or a relationship. You're looking for natural human attraction between you and others.

9. Do whatever it takes to go on a trip that involves a long flight, preferably to a country where English or your first language is not spoken

10. Start living an 'overly' fun life without feeling any guilt. This is the hardest task ahead. It's important to wash the guilt out of yourself once you have realized where it originates from via all the reading and counseling you've done.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> >>Ive heard it doesn't work on BPD'er<<
> 
> What do you mean "work"?
> 
> Do you know what you want?


I want my family back. I want to be able to let go. I want to be happy.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I want my family back. I want to be able to let go. I want to be happy.


The 180 is something that works - on you.

The increased confidence and masculine vibe you create with the 180 may help you achieve other objectives.

But, it has to be for you first.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I want my family back. I want to be able to let go. I want to be happy.


The last 2 are in your control.


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## forumman83 (Aug 12, 2012)

I think what everyone is trying to say here is that you no longer have any control over what she thinks, feels, wants, desires, or will or will not do. She has moved on and is clearly still with POSOM. 

This is hard to swallow because you are still focused on the past and the good times that came with it. You two were in a relationship and figured things out together. Key word: WERE. You WERE in a relationship with her. You are no longer part of her life or her decision. It is clear to everyone on this board but it is probably not clea to you because of the situation you are in.

Therefore, the only control you have is over YOURSELF. Again, you have no say in her life any longer. Only yours. Every day you need to make yourself responsible only to YOURSELF> Sometimes this leads to Reconciliation; sometimes it does not. Paradoxically, however, it is also the ONLY way to R with your XW, to become a better version of the man you once were. Right now, you are a sad shell of that man, one which she clearly does not want.

Remember ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER than words. Look at her actions, ignore her words. This should help you navigate. You also need to expand your time-frame and start looking out 6 months or more instead of days or weeks...


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

forumman83 said:


> I think what everyone is trying to say here is that you no longer have any control over what she thinks, feels, wants, desires, or will or will not do. She has moved on and is clearly still with POSOM.
> 
> This is hard to swallow because you are still focused on the past and the good times that came with it. You two were in a relationship and figured things out together. Key word: WERE. You WERE in a relationship with her. You are no longer part of her life or her decision. It is clear to everyone on this board but it is probably not clea to you because of the situation you are in.
> 
> ...


So stay the course for 6 months.focus on myself and the kids....tolerate the posUM..and hope she snaps out of it? Meanwhile she invites me to a yoga class today. No go.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> So stay the course for 6 months.focus on myself and the kids....tolerate the posUM..and hope she snaps out of it? Meanwhile she invites me to a yoga class today. No go.


Have you exposed the affair?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Have you exposed the affair?


Yea..all of friends and family know. No one approves, she doesn't care. Out drinking every night when she doesn't have kids. This former stay at home mother of 3 is driving a friend and his "band" up to seattle for a show they are performing. who is this person? Is this what 40 yr old mothers of 3 do these days?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Yea..all of friends and family know. No one approves, she doesn't care. Out drinking every night when she doesn't have kids. This former stay at home mother of 3 is driving a friend and his "band" up to seattle for a show they are performing. who is this person? Is this what 40 yr old mothers of 3 do these days?


Testosterone can have a strange impact on females.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Testosterone can have a strange impact on females.


How do I offset?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> How do I offset?


Stay on the right path. Work on yourself. Wait for the crash.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks Conrad. You really have been a great help. I have been 180 ing my ass off this week. Small blip last weeked when I spent too much time with her and kids. should I be avoiding those situations? I feel good while Im there but feel like **** afterward. I shouldn't be giving her anything..even my time. What do I say when she asks why Im being so distant?


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> what do i say when she asks why im being so distant?


nothing


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks Conrad. You really have been a great help. I have been 180 ing my ass off this week. Small blip last weeked when I spent too much time with her and kids. should I be avoiding those situations? I feel good while Im there but feel like **** afterward. I shouldn't be giving her anything..even my time. What do I say when she asks why Im being so distant?


The general rule is spend time with your kids.

As long as she is with posOM, she is off limits.

If she asks why, you tell her exactly that.

"I'm not ok with pretending to be your husband"


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Ok guys I need some help. Had a convo with W telling her that I was no longer going to be giving her as much money as I have been for the last 2.5 years. That I wasnt trying to be a **** but that I couldn't afford it anymore and needed to start thinking about how I am going to afford to live after D. She called me today asking that I come over tonight to talk..that she was having a panic attack and needed to talk. 
..she realizes that she won't be able to stay in the house she is living in now. I am going to tell her that this is back and white. that if she ditches posUM and want to work on things then I am willing to support her staying. if not I am not...this is what D looks like it is ugly..cold and scary for all....advice??


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

synthetic said:


> *Synthetic's 10 Commandments*:
> 
> 1. Read this link - *Just Let Them Go*
> 
> ...


Side note my wife is def BPD. I spoke with Shari Schreibner(author of #7 on above list) today and set an appt with her. Has anyone else had counseling from her??


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Your plan if accepted by her would still be bailing her out.

Change is unlikely without true consequences for her actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> Your plan if accepted by her would still be bailing her out.
> 
> Change is unlikely without true consequences for her actions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Spun you are right. So what to do? She is wanting me to move into the house (without her) so the kids don't have to move. What if she says she wants to work on things? (her idea)?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Uh ...

The only thing changing is on your end.

And that's the ridiculous money you have been giving her out of her own guilt trips on you.

Her tone will change once you give her what she wants.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Uh ...
> 
> The only thing changing is on your end.
> 
> ...


What do you mean her tone will change when i give her what she wants? What does she want?


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks Spun you are right. So what to do? She is wanting me to move into the house (without her) so the kids don't have to move. What if she says she wants to work on things? (her idea)?


So she wants you to move back in to keep from uprooting the kids.

You pay for the house. She gets here own place to bang posOM at will.

Sounds like the deal you can't refuse to me.

How exactly are her actions showing you that she wants to work on things?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Ok guys I need some help. *Had a convo with W telling her that I was no longer going to be giving her as much money* as I have been for the last 2.5 years. That I wasnt trying to be a **** but that I couldn't afford it anymore and needed to start thinking about how I am going to afford to live after D. *She called me today asking that I come over tonight to talk..that she was having a panic attack* and needed to talk.
> ..she realizes that she won't be able to stay in the house she is living in now. *I am going to tell her that this is back and white. that if she ditches posUM and want to work on things then I am willing to support her staying. if not I am not...this is what D looks like it is ugly..cold and scary for all....advice??*


My advice is to stop trying to "lead the witness".

You shouldn't have to tell her anything.

If you do, then it's not really what she will want.

She will do what she WANTS to do, not what she is told.

If she happens to agree to what she is TOLD, it's merely based on the 'best case scenario' at the given time.

Once "Plan B" (you) doesn't seem so good anymore a little ways down the road .. history will repeat itself.



The question is;

Are you able to separate WHO SHE is to what you WISH SHE would be.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> So she wants you to move back in to keep from uprooting the kids.
> 
> You pay for the house. She gets here own place to bang posOM at will.
> 
> ...


Her actions aren't. She wants me to move in so kids can stay and she can go find a place somewhere else that she can afford. She can't afford to stay if I give her less money..not my problem, but if I moved in (she moves out) the kids could stay around their friends etc. She'll have her own place regardless. We live separately now and have for some time.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Her actions aren't. She wants me to move in so kids can stay and she can go find a place somewhere else that she can afford. She can't afford to stay if I give her less money..not my problem, but if I moved in the kids could stay around their friends etc. She'll have her own place regardless. We live separately now and have for some time.


"I am not okay with giving you this ridiculous amount of child support money."

"I'M GOING TO MAKE THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THE KIDS NOW BECAUSE YOU'RE SO EASILY MANIPULATED BY THERE 'WELL BEING'! BUT IT'S OKAY! I'LL KEEP BANGING POSOM WHILE YOU NOW LIVE WITH THE KIDS!".

Need it any clearer?


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Her actions aren't. She wants me to move in so kids can stay and she can go find a place somewhere else that she can afford. She can't afford to stay if I give her less money..not my problem, but if I moved in (she moves out) the kids could stay around their friends etc. She'll have her own place regardless. We live separately now and have for some time.


Perfect. You move back in and pay. She moves along guilt free with respect to the kids.

Sell the house. Split the proceeds. Then build a new home for you and your kids. One based on your terms, not those of your cheating wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> "I am not okay with giving you this ridiculous amount of child support money."
> 
> "I'M GOING TO MAKE THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THE KIDS NOW BECAUSE YOU'RE SO EASILY MANIPULATED BY THERE 'WELL BEING'! BUT IT'S OKAY! I'LL KEEP BANGING POSOM WHILE YOU NOW LIVE WITH THE KIDS!".
> 
> Need it any clearer?



She would have the kids half time like she does now. She wouldn't give them up completely. Really just a matter of getting her out of that house. Same sitch as we have now but she wouldn't have this glorious hose to live in.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

spun said:


> Perfect. You move back in and pay. She moves along guilt free with respect to the kids.
> 
> Sell the house. Split the proceeds. Then build a new home for you and your kids. One based on your terms, not those of your cheating wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup.

She got the easy ride for 2.5 years.

Time for reality.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> Perfect. You move back in and pay. She moves along guilt free with respect to the kids.
> 
> Sell the house. Split the proceeds. Then build a new home for you and your kids. One based on your terms, not those of your cheating wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We don't live together. haven't for 2.5 years. She rents.Would have kids 50/50 regardless. Sitch doesn't change she just has to find a shizzier place to live.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> She would have the kids half time like she does now. She wouldn't give them up completely. Really just a matter of getting her out of that house. Same sitch as we have now but she wouldn't have this glorious hose to live in.


This is the problem.

You are hoping you can use this as a way to get her to leave POSOM.

It's very clear in the last sentence of your original question for advice.

The thing is, there is nothing you can do to turn this around.

It's all on her.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> This is the problem.
> 
> You are hoping you can use this as a way to get her to leave POSOM.
> 
> ...



Thanks Up. I guess I am hoping she will pull her head out of her arse and realize that this isn't a game. That her life is going to be crap..for the rest of her life. Not my job to make her realize that. I gotta take care of me and the kids and if she wants her life to be a struggle so be it. posUM is a real winner, maybe he can take care of her.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks Up.


It's very hard for us to not try and 'control' or 'manipulate' things when we have somewhat of an upper hand.

Control and Manipulate, they sound and feel like such ugly words.

Which makes it that much harder to believe one is doing such things.

When you are in the thick of things, it's also very hard to get proper perspective on what's going on.

Hence the ol' saying "Observe at 50,000 feet".

Ask yourself this.

What's changed?

Only 1 thing.

The amount of money you will be giving her.

She has lived the cushy life for long enough.

BUT, it's not about her.

It's about you.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks Up. I guess I am hoping she will pull her head out of her arse and realize that this isn't a game. That her life is going to be crap..for the rest of her life. Not my job to make her realize that. I gotta take care of me and the kids and if she wants her life to be a struggle so be it. posUM is a real winner, maybe he can take care of her.


Now don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way.

But.

My post above is from your original response.

Now look at what you added.

Don't you see how my response to "Thanks Up" completely answers your "edit".

Found a little bit of humor in it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Here's the thing.

You gave her the cushy life hoping to earn her love.

That's the wrong path from the beginning.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Here's the thing.
> 
> You gave her the cushy life hoping to earn her love.
> 
> That's the wrong path from the beginning.


thanks guys you are right. we will get nowhere until she can own 50% of why this relationship has ended and cuts posUm loose. i am going to tell her that we can't have a relationship or even a friendship until she is willing to own her part. i can't have all of that on my shoulders it is abusive and unfair. how do i set that boundary?


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## forumman83 (Aug 12, 2012)

I would suggest that you say it once and only once. Then no contact until it happens. In the meantime, find ways to improve on and move on with your life.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

So today when I am picking my daughter up for a date my W asks me if I'd like to go to a yoga class with her tomorrow. I told her that I was not comfortable spending time with her while posUM was still in the picture. She said that that was an ultimatum and that I shouldn't be trying to control what she does in her spare time. I saw something in TAM that someone said that was brilliant..that he wouldnt compete for her..that it was him or posUM. something to that effect. Advice?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> So today when I am picking my daughter up for a date my W asks me if I'd like to go to a yoga class with her tomorrow. I told her that I was not comfortable spending time with her while posUM was still in the picture. She said that that was an ultimatum and that I shouldn't be trying to control what she does in her spare time. I saw something in TAM that someone said that was brilliant..that he wouldnt compete for her..that it was him or posUM. something to that effect. Advice?


She's not your W.

She's your EX. Or Stbxw.

If you are being honest in what you said, then what you said was perfect.

You set your boundary in regards to spending time with her.

What she said was typical.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> So today when I am picking my daughter up for a date my W asks me if I'd like to go to a yoga class with her tomorrow. I told her that I was not comfortable spending time with her while posUM was still in the picture. She said that that was an ultimatum and that I shouldn't be trying to control what she does in her spare time. I saw something in TAM that someone said that was brilliant..that he wouldnt compete for her..that it was him or posUM. something to that effect. Advice?


You gave her plenty to think about.

And, no cake to eat.

Good man.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You gave her plenty to think about.
> 
> And, no cake to eat.
> 
> Good man.


Ok so this weekend I fell off the wagon and straight onto my face. my stbxw invited me to an event with her and the kids on Sunday, I went and really enjoyed my time with her. Then I invited her to dinner the next week. thought better of it and told her that I was tired of inviting her to stuff and didn't want to do that anymore, that I was letting her go and hoped she would find her way back to me someday.. Monday I sent her a text saying "what if everyday could be like yesterday" she said it was everyday life we had the trouble with. I said lets start slow. she said she needed space. today I asked her again. she said that she was too scared of me right now and that she needed to work on herself, that i needed to let her go. that it is too much stress having to talk about our relationship all the time, whats next etc. the she'd like to start a friendship and see where that let as that was were we were lacking. WTF is my problem?? Why do I always have to ruin a good moment by trying to talk about our relationship?? 

Why am I doing this to myself? Why can't I just grow some balls and let her go?? meanwhile supposed to hang out with her for my sons birthday on Friday. I am a wreck.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Why can't you?

What does your therapist say?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Ok so this weekend I fell off the wagon and straight onto my face. my stbxw invited me to an event with her and the kids on Sunday, I went and really enjoyed my time with her. Then I invited her to dinner the next week. *thought better of it and told her that I was tired of inviting her to stuff and didn't want to do that anymore, that I was letting her go and hoped she would find her way back to me someday.. *Monday I sent her a text saying "what if everyday could be like yesterday" she said it was everyday life we had the trouble with. I said lets start slow. she said she needed space. today I asked her again. *she said that she was too scared of me right now and that she needed to work on herself, that i needed to let her go*. that it is too much stress having to talk about our relationship all the time, whats next etc. the she'd like to start a friendship and see where that let as that was were we were lacking. WTF is my problem?? Why do I always have to ruin a good moment by trying to talk about our relationship??
> 
> Why am I doing this to myself? Why can't I just grow some balls and let her go?? *meanwhile supposed to hang out with her for my sons birthday* on Friday. I am a wreck.


You gave her an out by saying that.

So she most likely took the out after thinking about things.

Doesn't have to think too hard when you hand it to her with open arms.

As for your sons birthday party. Since when is your SONS birthday party you guys 'hanging out'?

Act as if it was 5 years from now and you're no longer together.

Friendly but not friends.

Indifferent.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Why can't you?
> 
> What does your therapist say?


He says that I have way too much of my self worth tied up in her. I had a ****ty upbringing and am having a hard time being left. I also have had some self esteem issues. All of this is coming to a head now. I know what I need to do but can't seem to do it. I do ok for a week or so and then I fall for her "hoovering" every time. she acts like she wants to fix things but "i really need to think about it" or "need time" or is "too afraid" of me right now. How is supposed to miss me when I am groveling at her feet constantly...pathetic. I am better than this and will be fine with or without her. If I could just keep this mindset instead of falling on my face in my weak moments.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You gave her an out by saying that.
> 
> So she most likely took the out after thinking about things.
> 
> ...


I can do that but won't it seem like bulls hat considering I just groveled yesterday? I just need to keep my balls instead of handing them to her on a silver platter. ho wants a weak effen cry baby for a husband? Every time I do this **** I feel like I am starting over. There is no reason for me to be giving her the time of day..she still has posUM and has given me nothing but some well timed hoovering and the guise that she actually is thinking about how she can get rid of her anger and fear to give us a chance. Every friend I tell I want her back tells me I am an idiot. Would my friends lie? I need to stick to 180 and not let up in moments of feeling alone or sorry for myself.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

You need to want to stop putting yourself in those situations then.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> He says that I have way too much of my self worth tied up in her. I had a ****ty upbringing and am having a hard time being left. I also have had some self esteem issues. All of this is coming to a head now. I know what I need to do but can't seem to do it. I do ok for a week or so and then I fall for her "hoovering" every time. she acts like she wants to fix things but "i really need to think about it" or "need time" or is "too afraid" of me right now. How is supposed to miss me when I am groveling at her feet constantly...pathetic. I am better than this and will be fine with or without her. If I could just keep this mindset instead of falling on my face in my weak moments.


Sounds like you understand.

It's just a matter of practice makes perfect.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

You're not following the commandments. You're cheating yourself out of freedom. Not freedom from your wife, but freedom from your codependency/insecurity jail. Just because you go to IC, it doesn't mean you're going to heal. You MUST follow the commandments and stop conversing with your bullsh1t of a wife.

*Synthetic's 10 Commandments*:

1. Read this link - *Just Let Them Go*

2. Follow the following rules: *The 180 degree rules*

3. Read this short book in the next 24 hours: *No More Mr. Nice Guy
* 
4. Separate all finances and stop supporting her 'single' lifestyle

5. Book a counseling appointment ASAP

6. Doesn't matter how you do it, but *sweat the pain of anxiety out*. Treadmills are your best friend. Use them. This is very important: You need to physically feel spent before you hit bed every night. 

7. Think a lot, read a lot, and cry as needed - This particular link should be open in your browser at all times and read multiple times: *DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?*

8. Find your social worth by socializing with as many people as possible (females work better). Spend time with friends, but don't just settle for your circle of friends. This is the best time to make new ones and feel attractive/attracted. You're not looking for sex or a relationship. You're looking for natural human attraction between you and others.

9. Do whatever it takes to go on a trip that involves a long flight, preferably to a country where English or your first language is not spoken

10. Start living an 'overly' fun life without feeling any guilt. This is the hardest task ahead. It's important to wash the guilt out of yourself once you have realized where it originates from via all the reading and counseling you've done.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks again Syn. I feel like I am doing great and then I get sucked back in. I have some big work to do. My self worth has always been and issue and this situation is rubbing salt in the wound. A friend asked if she gave me a baseball bat and told me to hit myself with it every day would I do it? Obvious answer. So why do I do it to myself by going back to trying to reason with her? I can't do it anymore. I am my own worst enemy right now. Time to grow some balls and take care of myself so this never happens to me again. Question... should I just file and get it over with? I don't want a D but feel like if I let her do it it will send me down even further which I cannot have happen.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I get sucked back in.





> My self worth has always been and issue and this situation is rubbing salt in the wound.





> So why do I do it to myself by going back to trying to reason with her?


You hold yourself accountable to a standard that has absolutely no meaning or value. It's the standard the society has imposed on you. You fear losing your status as the successfully married man who works hard and has "convinced" an attractive woman to stay with him. You are not seeing beyond your severely bent horizon. It's the horizon your parents, education system, media and subsequently your surroundings imposed on you since you were a kid.

That's why it's so important to take that trip. To get out of this invisible jail-cell you've been subject to most of your life.

Do you have a picture of yourself when you were less than 3 years old? Tell me. What remains of that beautiful child? Does thinking about this almost make you cry? It does for most people. It's because we are so far away from that free, playful, adorable and loved baby that we get depressed about neglecting ourselves for so long.

Read the article in my signature. It's a powerful tool. (DO YOU LOVE...)

You're on the right track. Make it count this time. This ain't about your marriage anymore. It's about YOU.



> Question... should I just file and get it over with? I don't want a D but feel like if I let her do it it will send me down even further which I cannot have happen.


I always suggest people to leave all the stupid divorce bullsh1t aside and go work on themselves. By the time you heal from all this, signing those papers will be a non-issue. Something you will do with a big smile on your face. You're not there yet.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

synthetic said:


> You hold yourself accountable to a standard that has absolutely no meaning or value. It's the standard the society has imposed on you. You fear losing your status as the successfully married man who works hard and has "convinced" an attractive woman to stay with him. You are not seeing beyond your severely bent horizon. It's the horizon your parents, education system, media and subsequently your surroundings imposed on you since you were a kid.
> 
> That's why it's so important to take that trip. To get out of this invisible jail-cell you've been subject to most of your life.
> 
> ...


Ok so had the bday and everything was fine..was indifferent..almost cold. but then called her afterword and told her thank you for doing all the hard work 10 yrs ago and for making such a great little man. THIS IS MY LAST MISTAKE. Im done. no more nice guy bull****.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Ok so had the bday and everything was fine..was indifferent..almost cold. but then called her afterword and told her thank you for doing all the hard work 10 yrs ago and for making such a great little man. THIS IS MY LAST MISTAKE. Im done. no more nice guy bull****.


how can any woman respect a guy who says hey..I know you you are banging some other dude but I have no self respect .. so thanks for being a great ___.

My nuts have got to begin to decend.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Ok so had the bday and everything was fine..was indifferent..almost cold. but *then called her afterword and told her thank you for doing all the hard work 10 yrs ago and for making such a great little man. THIS IS MY LAST MISTAKE. Im done. no more nice guy bull*****.


No it won't be.

You will continue to go back and forth because you still seek attention and validation from her.

Feeling guilty for doing the right thing (indifference) got you to call her.

The good thing is, you did it once.

The bad thing, you caved.

So revert your mind back to when you were at the party.

Remember how that felt, how you did it and stick to it.

The next time you do it, MAKE A MENTAL NOTE!! then get the hell out of dodge.

Do whatever you have to so you fight the urge to (and this is exactly how your mind will think) FIX it.

It's like a drug addiction.

Some of the biggest times I stood my ground I drove my ass to a friends house and kept myself there for hours so I wouldn't do anything.

Whatever works for you.



Too Little Too Late? said:


> how can *any woman* respect a guy who says hey..I know you you are banging some other dude but I have no self respect .. so thanks for being a great ___.
> 
> My nuts have got to begin to decend.


Were you actually thinking about 'any woman' or your ex when you thought of this statement.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> No it won't be.
> 
> You will continue to go back and forth because you still seek attention and validation from her.
> 
> ...


Funny thing is I never did this shat during..the end of our marriage...I had become numb and indifferent to her bull****. That is why I decided to move out. Now that she is banging some other dude I can't seem to shake her. Not that i was a prince..i wasn't..Im just not sure wtf is going on..I feel like once she pulled the rug I woke up. I was finally able to see my part, it felt like crap. I wanted to save us..been spinning my wheels for 2 months nor, She still has not owned anything " i loved you too much", "my part is that I stayed too long" And the crap she has pulled in the last 2 months posOM and some other off the wall crap, kids ask to stay the night with her and she lies about having to work etc..all about her..classic MLC. She had the gall to tell me she was having a horrible day yesterday because she went to a concert, passed out and puked all over herself. Ive got to 180 my ass of and quit giving her any emotion. She trys to hoover like a mo fo. Always saying she has no money. she so broke. where did she get the $ to go to a concert and get wasted til she puked? when does the FOG lift? How do you hang on and let go? Guess you don't. She may wake up..she may not. Gotta focus only on me and the kids for once.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Funny thing is I never did this shat during..the end of our marriage...I had become numb and indifferent to her bull****. That is why I decided to move out. Now that she is banging some other dude I can't seem to shake her. Not that i was a prince..i wasn't..Im just not sure wtf is going on..I feel like once she pulled the rug I woke up. I was finally able to see my part, it felt like crap. I wanted to save us..been spinning my wheels for 2 months nor, She still has not owned anything " i loved you too much", "my part is that I stayed too long" And the crap she has pulled in the last 2 months posOM and some other off the wall crap, kids ask to stay the night with her and she lies about having to work etc..all about her..*classic MLC*. She had the gall to tell me she was having a horrible day yesterday because she went to a concert, passed out and puked all over herself. Ive got to 180 my ass of and quit giving her any emotion. She trys to hoover like a mo fo. Always saying she has no money. she so broke. where did she get the $ to go to a concert and get wasted til she puked? when does the *FOG* lift? How do you hang on and let go? Guess you don't. She may wake up..she may not. Gotta focus only on me and the kids for once.


Classifying anything that is happening as a MLC, "FOG", heck even the BPD is often used in a way to excuse there behavior and gives you false hope that maybe JUST MAYBE they will "snap out of it".

Really, it's no different than saying you hope they start to take responsibility or "own it".

Kind of saying a kid who doesn't behave properly is automatically ADD or ADHD.

Not always the case.

Once you get your head out of the delusion that they are just 'in a phase' you will start to slowly see her for who she is, who she's become.

The unfortunate thing about that though, is once you do you will start to unlock all the past events and see them in a completely different light.

All of a sudden that fight you had 2 years ago happened in a completely different way, because you understand WHY you felt the way you did and how it all really came down.

Almost like rewriting history to how it actually happened, the out of body experience almost.

Now, it's not all "Wow this was all her fault" but you can start to see all the times you were Mr Nice Guy, Co-dependent sap. 

Those types of things are you on, you can't change what happened in the past but you can see the tail chasing that happened because back then you were not awake to the obvious.

About 1 1/2 months ago we had a few texts after we blew up on each other. We fought via text from Monday to Thursday. By the end of it she told me she was never coming back to me she found out all the 'horrible' things I had been doing (I checked her cell records for the first month while it was still under my name .. OH NO! Also, I kept in touch with her family and expressed my confused and work in progress feelings to some of them .. which ultimately got turned into something it wasn't. She chose to believe it all, oh well).

Eventually at the end I apologized for it, poured my heart out and .. she said "Thanks for the apology".

You see, the Monday before this she blew up my phone with threats about taking the kids away because I couldn't accommodate them (information I shared with her while we were on 'good terms') as she found out I applied for my legal rights for the child tax benefit. Over the weekend I took care of my problem, like everything else so far (not a victim statement, just the truth.).

She looked at her statement come payday and saw she got a fraction of what she once did. I waited a couple months before doing this, but she refused to share it as we have 50/50.

Threatened to take me to court for 'proper support' etc etc. That night while I was at work I finally unleashed what I thought about her. She called me fvcking out of my mind blah blah and I told her so many things it ended with that.

No response for 2 days, she told me 'not to talk to her unless it was about the kids'.

I get a "so if that's how you really feel about me, then why bother even wanting to get back together with me? how can you say you love me".

She discredited my statements of compassion for her, I started to agree with everything and that's when I apologized.

On the Sunday we were texting about something in regards to the kids. She commented on how she would look into taking the course required for us to do mediation. Stated she hardly had any money for the $20 share of our daughters school fees ... it was $20.

Monday night I get a text, she apparently stopped by the house and dropped of the $20 .. plus a bank statement stating her current balance.

"To show you how poor I am."

I pondered replying for a while, came on here asking for suggestions.

Eventually I decided (with the suggestions) to simply say "Okay, got it. Thanks."

You see, she gave me her statement the night BEFORE she got paid. Plus I believe she was also able to cash in the Child Support check a day or 2 later as well (do not remember this specifically).

So she showed me probably 1/3 or 1/4 the money she would have within the next few days. 

I stopped believing everything, started to get my head out of the delusion.

I didn't play the game and waited a full week without hearing anything in regards to her and mediation.

So, that week later I text her and let her know that I was going to be getting an attorney to start the legal proceedings. She was claiming she could not afford any of the daycare costs because I STOLE the child tax money.

In her world, I 'stole' it. In the real world, I went and took my legal entitlement for the money because I needed it as well to support my children. I also took her off my insurance as she was no longer sharing residency with me (of course this effected her birth control costs which she called 'medication' and HAD to use the children's grocery money to cover .. right.).

I went and got an attorney, she will be getting served next week hopefully.

Last week she gave me a small amount for the daycare costs, for the monthly total for 2 kids .. it was literally 16.3%. That's what she gave me. 16.3% for daycare costs.

I let her know that I did do what I said I was going to do and got an attorney (she never responded to my text when I informed her I was moving forward with everything).

"You can't squeeze blood from a stone" "I wish you would do what you are suppose to do" (aka pay for everything) "take me to court, you won't get anything out of me, I'm trying the best I can!"

Her replies were full range of emotion, started as a ****y smirk (which I used to get really upset about and call her out on), to anger, to crocodile tears.

If I remember correctly we didn't discuss anything from Sun to last Thursday. On Thursday I asked her for something I needed that she had (a document) and she let me know she would not be coming into town this weekend and would drop it off mid week this week.

Once again, I fully know she would be coming into the city on Monday to go to work, I'm only a few minutes out of the way. She just doesn't want to.

That's fine. I let her know I'd order a new one and left it at that.

She said "I'm not trying to be difficult, I just won't be coming into the city".

I left it at that. 

I DID NOT PLAY THE GAME!

Although I still have ways to go, I'm starting to see it all for what it really is.



Writing what I just wrote 2 months ago would have sent me into a frenzy emotionally. My face would be flushed to sh!t and I'd probably want to send her a text or something.

Today, nope. I'm just trying to share my experience in hopes it helps you.

I saw her on Wednesday, you can check my Blog for my freak out .. but I didn't say jack squat to her.

In the last week we have had maybe 2-3 sentences between us.

That's a good thing.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Good for you. Stick to it..that is the problem I have. I find myself feeling guilty every time I shine her on,... when she says she's broke etc. So I end up backsliding. I have been her caretaker for so long it is a hard habit to break.I feel like I am at the beginning of this and need to get my wits about me or fall prey to more manipulation and pain. I need not to fall for her bs testing me to see how much shat I will eat..if I will save her like I always do. Thought I could nice my way out of this. It apparent that that crap doesn't work and that she will try to get any ounce of attention or $ she can. She almost convinced me to give her my paid off car last week! All I have shown her to this pint is that I am a welcome doormat. Sure go bang whoever you want..go spend all your money getting drunk with posOM..call to cry on my shoulder..show me no respect whatsoever its all ok cuz Ill be here waiting for you without my balls or a backbone. eff that crap I cannot continue to hit myself in the face with a baseball bat. I am not a masochist. Problem is every time I back off she turns up the heat on the "please feel sorry for me" dial ..hi how are you? I had a ****ty day..I need attention please ask my why. Wasn't our sons birth an amazing day?? Cant fall for it. Like Conrad says "pay attention to what she does, not to what she says". Good luck Up. Keep up the good work. I appreciate your insight.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Classifying anything that is happening as a MLC, "FOG", heck even the BPD is often used in a way to excuse there behavior and gives you false hope that maybe JUST MAYBE they will "snap out of it".
> 
> Really, it's no different than saying you hope they start to take responsibility or "own it".
> 
> ...


Ok so stbxw calls about drop off of kids this afternoon. She says "we are going to a party if you'd like to come" I didn't say anything but when she asks again which she will my response should be.

"Im not comfortable spending time with you while you are seeing someone else?"

She has been hoovering a bit over the past few days... Friday says " what are you doing today, Im really missing you guys" Yesterday she calls all excited telling me she found a way to start a business Ive been wanting to do for awhile. I told her I didn't have time to do it solo..she said she would help me. I said I didn't think that was the direction we were heading. that she should do it herself. Not sure what to think. Trying to focus on what she does not what she says..so hard not to get sucked in. I feel as long as she is still seeing this guy I have no business giving her the time of day....do I asks her if she still is or get my answer when I tell her Im not comfortable hanging out with you while your seeing someone else...Thoughts.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Ok so stbxw calls about drop off of kids this afternoon. She says "we are going to a party if you'd like to come" I didn't say anything but when she asks again which she will my response should be.
> 
> "Im not comfortable spending time with you while you are seeing someone else?"
> 
> She has been hoovering a bit over the past few days... Friday says " what are you doing today, Im really missing you guys" Yesterday she calls all excited telling me she found a way to start a business Ive been wanting to do for awhile. I told her I didn't have time to do it solo..she said she would help me. I said I didn't think that was the direction we were heading. that she should do it herself. Not sure what to think. Trying to focus on what she does not what she says..so hard not to get sucked in. I feel as long as she is still seeing this guy I have no business giving her the time of day....do I asks her if she still is or get my answer when I tell her Im not comfortable hanging out with you while your seeing someone else...Thoughts.


I'm not ok with pretending to be your husband.

She'll get the picture.

She won't miss you or commit one way or the other if you feed her emotions.

Time for her to see what life will really be like without you.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> I'm not ok with pretending to be your husband.
> 
> She'll get the picture.
> 
> ...



I think Ill run with " I don't think its a good time for us to be hanging out together"


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I think Ill run with " I don't think its a good time for us to be hanging out together"


Perfect.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I think Ill run with " I don't think its a good time for us to be hanging out together"


No! (sorry for being blunt .. okay no I'm not).

NO NO NO!

No "I think".

No "Maybe".

No "Should".

"I am not okay with us hanging out together."

No middle ground "thought pondering" "open ended" filler words.

Straight to the point man.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Here's the thing.
> 
> You gave her the cushy life hoping to earn her love.
> 
> That's the wrong path from the beginning.


Conrad, 

You ask the question about how her childhood was often. My stbxw's was terrible as was mine. Why is this important?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Conrad,
> 
> You ask the question about how her childhood was often. My stbxw's was terrible as was mine. Why is this important?


It makes it very difficult to trust.

Fear of intimacy is often the result.

Would explain much of what you're seeing.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It makes it very difficult to trust.
> 
> Fear of intimacy is often the result.
> 
> Would explain much of what you're seeing.


Yeah..she had a pretty bad one. She fits BPD to a tee. She is also premenopausal..supposed to have a hysterectomy in Dec. Am I out of my mind in thinking she will actually snap out of this or am just I kidding myself and should run for the hills?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

she has also been pretty needy lately calling me 2 or 3 times a day..saying while I had the kids that she was missing "us" telling me how ****ty her life is, how she doesn't have any money etc. even called Sunday to tell me she wanted to help me start a business?? i told her that wasn't the direction we were heading.. what gives? I just want her to leave me alone and let me heal.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> I just want her to leave me alone and let me heal.


I don't think you're being honest with yourself.

If you really wanted her to leave you alone, you would simply tell her to leave you alone and not contact you.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

synthetic said:


> I don't think you're being honest with yourself.
> 
> If you really wanted her to leave you alone, you would simply tell her to leave you alone and not contact you.


Agreed.

You're getting some kind of reward from the attention, conflict, connection. She's like a drug. Let go. Or...try to figure out why you can't, so that you can make life better for yourself with or without her.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

moxy said:


> Agreed.
> 
> You're getting some kind of reward from the attention, conflict, connection. She's like a drug. Let go. Or...try to figure out why you can't, so that you can make life better for yourself with or without her.


i agree with you both. seems so scary though. How do i tell her that I need space to work on myself and that I need "for now" to not talk to her. we have 3 kids together and seems that there is always a reason for her to call me.


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> How do i tell her that I need space to work on myself and that I need "for now" to not talk to her.


You simply open your mouth and say those exact words. What is she gonna do? Beat you up?


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> i agree with you both. seems so scary though. How do i tell her that I need space to work on myself and that I need "for now" to not talk to her. we have 3 kids together and seems that there is always a reason for her to call me.


You tell her you are not OK with talking to her for now. Ask her to communicate about the kids via email or text messages.

When she calls, you simply don't pick up the phone.

It's called setting and enforcing boundaries.

A word of caution. She will likely up the aunty if you refuse to engage her, especially if she is BPD like you suspect.

Fear of abandonment causes intense emotional reactions in a borderline personality.

You need to stand your ground. No feeding or engaging in the drama that is very likely to come you way once you begin doing this.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> You tell her you are not OK with talking to her for now. Ask her to communicate about the kids via email or text messages.
> 
> When she calls, you simply don't pick up the phone.
> 
> ...



Do you think this is the right thing to do? how does she up the ante?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> The aunty? Do you think this is the right thing to do?


How do you think this affects my chances of R?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> The aunty? Do you think this is the right thing to do?


Isn't it time you show some strength?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Isn't it time you show some strength?


Yes but do you think it show strength or weakness since I am saying I can't talk to her. Or is it saying Im ready to move on.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Yes but do you think it show strength or weakness since I am saying I can't talk to her. Or is it saying Im ready to move on.


You don't say that you "can't" talk to her. You simply say I am no longer ok with communicating with anything that does not have to do with the kids.

Continuing to feed her need to converse with you is needy and weak.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> How do you think this affects my chances of R?


How's the begging and groveling been working out for you?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> How's the begging and groveling been working out for you?[/QUOTE
> 
> Like shizz. Haven't been doing that at all (for a week anyway). Have been short and to the point. Just not sure how hard a boundary to set. I am never answering her calls. responding with text that ask whats up? she will call 3 or 4 times in a row or reply "pls call me" most often about the kids but finds ways to interject other b.s. into the convo. she took our son and his friends to a waterpark for 2 days and just now she sends me a text that says "thanks for making it possible for me to come with these guys, it has been so much fun!", "wish you were on Instagram, the pics are great!" I deleted my instagram because she was taking pics of her and posUM's, and had to see him "like" her pics. felt like ****.
> 
> WTF is she doing texting me this kind of crap?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She's hoping you're still Plan B.

Your silence indicates that you aren't.

You can continue to expect her to seek your attention.

Do not give it to her.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

So what do you think..dont respond? I was going to text. "glad you're having a good time, what time ( I have my daughter that she needs to pick up) are you going to be back? You car will be full of gas (she borrowed mine to fit all kids), I expect mine to be too.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> spun said:
> 
> 
> > How's the begging and groveling been working out for you?[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> So what do you think..dont respond? I was going to text. "glad you're having a good time, what time ( I have my daughter that she needs to pick up) are you going to be back? You car will be full of gas (she borrowed mine to fit all kids), I expect mine to be too.


Your respond "What time are you going to pickup daughter". That's it.

You fill her car with gas only if the agreement is that she fills yours.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

You're still seeking her attention and validation way too much.

It's very evident in the way you want to respond.

Why tell her the tank is full? Why tell her 'have a good time' when you don't mean it?

It's because you want to hear "Oh thanks so much! My gosh you're so considerate! Why did I ever leave you?!"

Not going to happen that way.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> Your respond "What time are you going to pickup daughter". That's it.
> 
> You fill her car with gas only if the agreement is that she fills yours.


Done and done.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Done and done.


Good work. Now don't fall of the wagon.

One day at a time tltt.


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Too Little Too Late,

I gather you're not doing much reading outside your own thread.

Or maybe you are, and you just refuse to accept the reality of your situation.

Find me one instance of a TAM member who got their wife back by being needy, and I'll personally shut the f up forever.

Move on. You can do a lot better than her. A LOT BETTER.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Too Little Too Late,
> 
> I gather you're not doing much reading outside your own thread.
> 
> ...


Had a great session with my IC today that said the exact same thing. That she is reaching out looking for attention for her..not me. I think it is finally sinking in, thanks for the reality check. Going ghost mode. Your support is much appreciated.


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Too Little Too Late,
> 
> I gather you're not doing much reading outside your own thread.
> 
> ...


Synth, how long did this take you? It seems you were a fast learner! I'm an up and down roller coaster personally.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Had a great session with my IC today that said the exact same thing. That she is reaching out looking for attention for her..not me. I think it is finally sinking in, thanks for the reality check. Going ghost mode. Your support is much appreciated.


It IS support.

No one here is being mean.

We want what's best for you.

We want YOU to want it too.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It IS support.
> 
> No one here is being mean.
> 
> ...


I feel the love. Thanks guys.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She's hoping you're still Plan B.
> 
> Your silence indicates that you aren't.
> 
> ...


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Conrad said:
> 
> 
> > She's hoping you're still Plan B.
> ...


----------



## SCondeck (Oct 5, 2012)

Wait, am I reading this right? "posUM is going to be our step dad but you will still be our Pappa." I guess I'm a bit confused but is your Mrs. telling the kids that the other man is their new stepdad? If that's the case then you win the award for having the MOST EVILEST WIFE! 

In either case, you shouldn't give the least sh*t if your short texts offend her. Do not communicate with her except for necessary discussions about kids, finances, etc. 

I'm so sorry man. Why are these women so rotten?


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

SCondeck said:


> Wait, am I reading this right? "posUM is going to be our step dad but you will still be our Pappa." I guess I'm a bit confused but is your Mrs. telling the kids that the other man is their new stepdad? If that's the case then you win the award for having the MOST EVILEST WIFE!
> 
> In either case, you shouldn't give the least sh*t if your short texts offend her. Do not communicate with her except for necessary discussions about kids, finances, etc.
> 
> I'm so sorry man. Why are these women so rotten?


Where in his post did he say she told the kids this?

It's quite the opposite.

Who knows what is true or isn't true in that regard.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Too Little Too Late? said:
> 
> 
> > So your ex needed to take your son to the hospital and you said no in support of it?
> ...


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Where in his post did he say she told the kids this?
> 
> It's quite the opposite.
> 
> Who knows what is true or isn't true in that regard.


I haven't told the kids anything. She told them about posUM so of course they are wondering what their future looks like. She shouldn't have told them anything until she was/is sure that this is a guy that she could see herself with long term and would be a good fit for the kids...selfish. Now they are having to wonder what is going on and Im sure it feels scary..a little out of control for them.so naturally they are asking questions and making assumptions.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> UpnOver said:
> 
> 
> > No..his finger hurts. She was just trying to suck me in and get me to come over under the guise of having to take my son to urgent care. He didn't need to go. She is starting to get squirrely because i haven't been answering her calls or texts for a day.
> ...


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Too Little Too Late? said:
> 
> 
> > Have you said anything to her about all of this yet?
> ...


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Your wife is really not much to miss out on, is she?!

Who gives a crap if your short texts are concerning her? Wait till you actually start to heal (you're still very badly codependent), then she'll feel suicidal. And the beauty of it is, you won't give a flying f***!

Codependency is your biggest issue. Work on it. Read on it. Remind yourself of your temporary illness and remain self-aware.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Your wife is really not much to miss out on, is she?!
> 
> Who gives a crap if your short texts are concerning her? Wait till you actually start to heal (you're still very badly codependent), then she'll feel suicidal. And the beauty of it is, you won't give a flying f***!
> 
> Codependency is your biggest issue. Work on it. Read on it. Remind yourself of your temporary illness and remain self-aware.


Have been doing a great job with NC no answering calls etc. Saw her at my sons soccer game and barely said 2 words to her. Played with my kids. Today I am picking up my son and she comes to the car window and asks if I will help her with the car she needs to buy (we agreed to this awhile ago) I said no she could handle it herself. She sobbed and said that she had never done this before and had no one to help her.. She said I thought you would be my friend. I told her I can't be your friend. Then said don't you have someone else in your life that can help with this? (posUM reference he out of town apparently) she said "no". I don't want her going out and buying some piece of **** so I have to take up the slack later. But at the same time I can't rescue her again. I gave her the number of a car finder I have used before and told her good luck. Good enough?


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Have been doing a great job with NC no answering calls etc. Saw her at my sons soccer game and barely said 2 words to her. Played with my kids. Today I am picking up my son and she comes to the car window and asks if I will help her with the car she needs to buy (we agreed to this awhile ago) I said no she could handle it herself. She sobbed and said that she had never done this before and had no one to help her.. She said I thought you would be my friend. I told her I can't be your friend. Then said don't you have someone else in your life that can help with this (posUM reference) she said "no". I don't want her going out and buying some piece of **** so I have to take up the slack later. But at the same time I can't rescue her again. I gave her the number of a car finder I have used before and told her good luck. Good enough?


Perfect. 

Expect her to continue to place herself as the victim.

Don't cave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> Perfect.
> 
> Expect her to continue to place herself as the victim.
> 
> ...


To be honest I did cave a bit but then got ahold of myself. This is becoming so one sided..she always needs something but gives nothing in return. Should I mention this or am I wasting my breath? how about this next time she asks." You turned your back on your marriage and your family to be with another man, I cannot be friends with someone like that"


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> To be honest I did cave a bit but then got ahold of myself. This is becoming so one sided..she always needs something but gives nothing in return. Should I mention this or am I wasting my breath? how about this next time she asks." You turned your back on your marriage and your family to be with another man, I cannot be friends with someone like that"


You simply state what are and are not ok with.I

No saying "because you did x". It's appealing to victim status. 

Never works.

It's needy and unattractive too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> You simply state what are and are not ok with.I
> 
> No saying "because you did x". It's appealing to victim status.
> 
> ...


I need help everyone..This afternoon I told my stbxw that we couldn't be friends. when we kid switched my 5 yr old asks why I told Mom we could be friends anymore that wasn't very nice. I immediately texted her "I'm not comfortable involving the kids in our private conversations" she retorts the I said it in front of my son..i didn't. The next text says that she but have misunderstood our convo last week. When I caved last week and asked "again" to work on us she said that we need to work on being friends again first. I did agree that it was a start. I don't want to be her friend. Does she deserve and explanation? Here is an option.

"I have thought long and hard about this and the truth is that I need time to take care of myself and heal from this. i would love nothing more that to begin to repair our relationship but I cannot do this while there is another man in your life. It hurts too much. I have never wanted to be just your friend from the moment I saw you. that isn't going to start now. I need to focus on myself and the kids. I hope you understand."

Please feel free to cut, paste, rewrite etc.I know there is some lumber fodder in there, I need all the help I can get. I am so confused right now.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Or this?

I can't be your friend right now. I need to focus on myself and the kids.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Or this?
> 
> I can't be your friend right now. I need to focus on myself and the kids.


Good.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Or this?
> 
> I can't be your friend right now. I need to focus on myself and the kids.


Perfect.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Perfect.


Thanks guys..Why does this feel like I am ripping off a limb?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks guys..Why does this feel like I am ripping off a limb?


Because you're still recovering from codependency.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Because you're still recovering from codependency.


Ok so she calls me today and asks for clarity around why I said we couldn't be friends. I told her I wasn't ready to talk about it. I am having a hard time articulating my feelings around this issue. I don't and have never wanted to be just her friend, but we do have 3 kids together. How do I explain that I am hurt and that there is no way for us to have a real friendship until I can let that hurt go. What does being "friends" even mean right now? so far it means that I do things for her. Doesn't she have someone else (posUM) in her life to do these things? My mom said that maybe I should be happy that she is asking me to help her in locating a car. This feels like cake eating to me. She gets to go have fun with posUM but if she needs anything that needs stability she calls me. I do still care for her deeply and need the space and time to be able to let go. Being her "friend" seems counterintuitive doesn't it? I don't want to be in the "friend" zone. This doesn't mean that I will be mean rude or demeaning to her. I just need space. Spending time with her and talking to her gives me too much hope, then she runs off with posUM and it kills me. I feel like she wants to be friends for her..not for me..so she can get rid of her guilt. All of her past relationships she has tried this crap with. the old I hate you don't leave me hoax. Any ideas on how to explain my needs? help!

"Here is how i feel...I cannot have any kind of relationship with you while you have a posOW in your life. I need space to heal and to focus on myself and the kids. Friendly co parents is the best i can offer right now."


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Just tell her:

"I'm not ok being friends as long as you are banging posOM"

She'll get the message.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Just tell her:
> 
> "I'm not ok being friends as long as you are banging posOM"
> 
> She'll get the message.


She'll always be banging someone even if it isn't this posOM. She will just move on to the next victim.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

should I just file and get it over with?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> should I just file and get it over with?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only a choice you can make.

Mine was served last week.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> She'll always be banging someone even if it isn't this posOM. She will just move on to the next victim.


Once again, this depends on what you want.

Do you "want" to tell her why you're not willing to be friends?

The posOM statement is honest.

She betrayed you and a white-hot reminder of that betrayal will never permit a friendship of any sort.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Honesty is what I deserve. After years of walking on eggshells its time to stop being nice and start telling the truth.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Once again, this depends on what you want.
> 
> Do you "want" to tell her why you're not willing to be friends?
> 
> ...


Had the conversation. Let her know we couldnt be friends while the was in a relationship with posOw. Setting the boundary was liberating and heartbreaking atthe same time. One of the hardest things ive ever done. Wish things didnt have to bethis way.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Had the conversation. Let her know we couldnt be friends while the was in a relationship with posOw. Setting the boundary was liberating and heartbreaking atthe same time. One of the haardest things ive ever done.


BUT... you feel better about you... almost immediately... don't you?


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Had the conversation. Let her know we couldnt be friends while the was in a relationship with posOw. Setting the boundary was liberating and heartbreaking atthe same time. One of the haardest things ive ever done.


The right choices can be the hardest to make.

You did exactly what you need to do, whether you D or end up in R.

The victories start small and get bigger as long as you stay the course..

Great job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> BUT... you feel better about you... almost immediately... don't you?


Good to stand up for myself for once. Sad to lose the woman I called my confidante.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Good to stand up for myself for once. Sad to lose the woman I called my confidante.


You're only losing the delusion.

I realize it hurts. But, you'll feel better when you stop arguing with reality.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You're only losing the delusion.
> 
> I realize it hurts. But, you'll feel better when you stop arguing with reality.


Arguing with the delusion of the definition of insanity.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Arguing with the delusion of the definition of insanity.


This really is the eureka moment. When you realize that you are in love with the image of them that you created.

When the delusion does not line up with what is going on with reality, that's when the pain starts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

spun said:


> This really is the eureka moment. When you realize that you are in love with the image of them that you created.
> 
> When the delusion does not line up with what is going on with reality, that's when the pain starts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And peace comes when you accept the delusion was untrue.

Arguing with reality is an argument you aren't able to win.


----------



## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Conrad said:


> And peace comes when you accept the delusion was untrue.
> 
> Arguing with reality is an argument you aren't able to win.


Boy, this is a hitting home kind of moment. I know. I argued with reality a long time. Apparently, I'm pretty stubborn. Conrad is right, and the peace is priceless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> This really is the eureka moment. When you realize that you are in love with the image of them that you created.
> 
> When the delusion does not line up with what is going on with reality, that's when the pain starts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The delusion and the reality haven't been lining up for awhile. The pain has been excruciating. Down 30 lbs in 3 months. Time to get back up on the horse and ride.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

11 years of marriage and 2.5 years of separation. all of them pretty crappy to be honest. There were some good times don't get me wrong. But most of them were in our "honeymoon" phase or before we were married. I knew her for 8 years before we married. I was always in love with her, she was so sexy, carefree, so much fun to be with. We were "friends" for that time before we reconnected for the 1st time when she wasn't in a relationship (i still was). I could let her go this time. she said marry me or I am going to the peace corp. the 1st 4 months were amazing, phenomenal sex, great connection, I knew I had found the one (i always dreamed it would be her). Funny thing is..once we got engaged and moved to another state everything changed. She started riding me for the silliest stuff, cursing, yelling (a lot) We had never fought before in the now ( years that I knew her..not once. I put up with it thinking she was just stressed with the move etc. We would have huge blowups and she would scream and hit me. It was ugly..I put up with it remembering the "old her" thinking she had to come back. We got married soon there after..I remember feeling uneasy, it certainly wasn't the best week of my life as it should have been. 3 months later we were pregnant. She decided not to take the 2nd half of the morning after pill. Now don't get me wrong, I am not blaming her, I was there too but...the birth was magical, I have never loved anything more in my life...we had a brief respite from fighting during that time but soon moved to my hometown to be close to our families..disaster. Her Mom is a psycho and so was mine. Spent a year there trying to get out while my Mom went to rehab...stress and fighting. To make a long story short my marriage has never been good..never. very little sex (except to have kids) no intimacy, always fighting. How can you even like someone who is always yelling about something?

the above is true..my marriage was a sh.tshow. Here is my question.
Why can't I get over her? Why is it that now..today..she is the end all be all. Why do I feel that I need her back? I haven't slept a full night in 3 months. I have lost 30 lbs. I have anxiety attacks every day..cant work etc. I am depressed beyond belief. WTF is going on?
Why do we idealize something that we saw a glimpse of years ago never to return? Why is something that should feel like a gift make me feel like I am going to die?

Is it codependency? Is it the loss of my family? (3 kids) Did I let her rob me of every ounce of self esteem I have? She has an effing posOW for christs sake! Please help me understand why I am letting this destroy me.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TLTL,

Be patient with yourself.

Have you read Melanie Beattie's "Codependent No More"?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> TLTL,
> 
> Be patient with yourself.
> 
> Have you read Melanie Beattie's "Codependent No More"?


 Reading it now but honestly the sh.t goes in and comes right out. I know what I need to do but I just can't bring myself to do it. I can't say no. I can't have her be mad at me, I can't hear that condescending bitc*y tone. She has made me feel like a piece of crap for so long I do everything I can to avoid it. If fall prey to her
sob stories every time. "I have no money, no career, you owe me because I stayed at home with our kids for 10 years and sacrificed my career for all of you and now I have nothing. I am ****ed." Always...always a victim.

When you say be patient..what does that mean? I need your sage advice more than ever Conrad.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Reading it now but honestly the sh.t goes in and comes right out. I know what I need to do but I just can't bring myself to do it. I can't say no. I can't have her be mad at me, I can't hear that condescending bitc*y tone. She has made me feel like a piece of crap for so long I do everything I can to avoid it. If fall prey to her
> sob stories every time. "I have no money, no career, you owe me because I stayed at home with our kids for 10 years and sacrificed my career for all of you and now I have nothing. I am ****ed." Always...always a victim.
> 
> When you say be patient..what does that mean? I need your sage advice more than ever Conrad.


I mean be patient with yourself.

Think of it as raising to 50,000 feet and looking down at your interactions with her.

See her for the first time, and take note of how she behaves.

Right now, your right brain screams out for her. It's your delusion... your neediness is in your emotional center.

You can overcome it with observations from your left brain. Think of it as intellectual assessment of what you would think of her if you were meeting her for the first time.

This will help you truly see her without your delusion (of what she represents) getting in the way.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I mean be patient with yourself.
> 
> Think of it as raising to 50,000 feet and looking down at your interactions with her.
> 
> ...


I am supposed to go to a school fundraiser tonight. She said she had a concert to go to and wouldn't be attending. An hour ago she texts me that shed like to go now because her girlfriends are all going would that be a problem. I told her " I'm not comfortable with you attending" she said..seriously? you can't even be in the same room with me? " i prefer not to be" I said. Some people think the world revolves around them.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

This is a fundraiser for your kids school?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> This is a fundraiser for your kids school?


Yes. She said she couldn't attend because she had other plans. Then decided she wanted to go. Not for any other reason than her "single" girlfriends are going and free booze. She got a free ticket..its not like she is going to support the school. I don't want to go and be anywhere near her.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

You think I should just let her go?


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> You think I should just let her go?


"let" her go?

What say do you have in her doing things?

My kids daycare had a meeting this week, the ex knew about it.

I went, dressed up even. Not too much but enough that people noticed.

She didn't show, so what.

Even if she did, it has nothing to do with me anymore.


----------



## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> I am supposed to go to a school fundraiser tonight. She said she had a concert to go to and wouldn't be attending. An hour ago she texts me that shed like to go now because her girlfriends are all going would that be a problem. I told her " I'm not comfortable with you attending" she said..seriously? you can't even be in the same room with me? " i prefer not to be" I said. Some people think the world revolves around them.


You should not have responded. Period. She needs to know you don't give a rat's [email protected]@ what she does. Her presence has no affect on you, in fact, when you see her "Hey, how are you? Nice to see you." AND WALK AWAY with a massive smile on your face knowing she is an afterthought. That is how you win in this. She might wake up one day, maybe not. That's not your problem anymore. She is just another girl that you once knew.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TLTL,

She feeds off the idea that what she does matters to you.

Show her it doesn't.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

How'd it go?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> How'd it go?


I went..she didn't. Had fun. I see everyones point about not giving a rats a22. It just too hard to be near her right now. i hope it all ends soon. I feel like I am suffocating.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I went..she didn't. Had fun. I see everyones point about not giving a rats a22. It just too hard to be near her right now. i hope it all ends soon. I feel like I am suffocating.


She didn't go because you told her not to?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She didn't go because you told her not to?


I didn't tell her not to I just said I preferred she didn't. She knew I was planning on going and said she wasn't. I am trying to set boundaries.

I am so confused. I miss her so much. I know it is delusional, I just can't help it. I want my family back. 

In truth our relationship was a disaster. I put up with so much emotional abuse, so much entitlement. That hasn't changed. She takes no responsibility for anything. All she can say is how much her life (financially) sucks and how she is getting the short end of the stick. The last 3 months have been an eye opener as to who she really is. A spoiled entitled abuser. She want everything given to her...she deserves it. She is trying to get me to use the kids college money to buy her a camera..so she can be a photographer. Trying to get me to trade her my paid off vehicle 11k for a 4k car. 

Not to say that I didn't have any responsibility in our demise..I did..I can see that now. But after awhile your just go thru the motions hoping something will change. You become empty..hollow. Why I am I killing myself over this? I feel like a ghost, a shell of a man. Am I so damaged that I want something bad over having nothing at all?

Leopards don't change their spots, this much is obvious. Please help me understand.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Are you at 50,000 feet? If you are, think of this:

Say you WOULD break into the kids' money to help her out with a camera.

What are the chances she would follow-through and make anything of the opportunity?

Think on her history before you answer.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Slim and none. I have done this with her before. Spent 2k on sewing machines etc so she could start a kids clothing biz. Paid for handmade signs to whole kit and caboodle. She quit after on craft fair. Tried to get me to lease her a spot for a store. Said I was unsupportive when I said no. She didn't even have a biz plan. Paid for her to become a realtor..hated that too. Said how could I be so selfish as to want her to do something she hated. She only did it because I wanted her to. (we were in financial straits and just needed her to carry some of the load...grow up we all do **** we don't want to do to to make ends meet. Since then (our separation) has been working part time jobs (she has a degree) She wants her life to be handed to her on a silver platter. She scarified so much as a stay at home mom. Want to do it just to see if she can actually do anything for herself and if she does..great. She is a talented photographer..want to see her reach her dreams. Although I think of it as enabling. She has a bad spending problem...always has. I am always the one who foots the bill. But in this case its the kids. Says she doesn't want to wait tables for the rest of her life and that the place she works now (hates that too) may not renew her her contract next year..Sob sob sob. What do you think?


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Slim and none. I have done this with her before. Spent 2k on sewing machines etc so she could start a kids clothing biz. Paid for handmade signs to whole kit and caboodle. She quit after on craft fair. Tried to get me to lease her a spot for a store. Said I was unsupportive when I said no. She didn't even have a biz plan. Want to do it just to see if she can actually do anything for herself and if she does..great. She is a talented photographer..want to see her reach her dreams. Although I think of it as enabling. She has a bad spending problem...always has. I am always the one who foots the bill. But in this case its the kids. Says she doesn't want to wait tables for the rest of her life and that the place she works now (hates that too) may not renew her her contract next year..Sob sob sob. What do you think?


She can buy her own god damn camera.

The kids money remains for what it is.

College.

Not her "let me try this" crap.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Do you wonder how we know this stuff?

Stay at 50,000 feet.

How difficult is it to say, "I'm not ok with this"

No explaining, no citing her history... no nothing.

You're just not ok with it.

Because you aren't.




Too Little Too Late? said:


> Slim and none. I have done this with her before. Spent 2k on sewing machines etc so she could start a kids clothing biz. Paid for handmade signs to whole kit and caboodle. She quit after on craft fair. Tried to get me to lease her a spot for a store. Said I was unsupportive when I said no. She didn't even have a biz plan. Paid for her to become a realtor..hated that too. Said how could I be so selfish as to want her to do something she hated. She only did it because I wanted her to. (we were in financial straits and just needed her to carry some of the load...grow up we all do **** we don't want to do to to make ends meet. Since then (our separation) has been working part time jobs (she has a degree) She wants her life to be handed to her on a silver platter. She scarified so much as a stay at home mom. Want to do it just to see if she can actually do anything for herself and if she does..great. She is a talented photographer..want to see her reach her dreams. Although I think of it as enabling. She has a bad spending problem...always has. I am always the one who foots the bill. But in this case its the kids. Says she doesn't want to wait tables for the rest of her life and that the place she works now (hates that too) may not renew her her contract next year..Sob sob sob. What do you think?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Do you wonder how we know this stuff?
> 
> Stay at 50,000 feet.
> 
> ...


Today feeling like a failure. Failed myself, my kids and my stbxw. Not sure why I am feeling this way. Why won't she give this a chance to be right. I am a good man. Why is this happening to me?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Today feeling like a failure. Failed myself, my kids and my stbxw. Not sure why I am feeling this way. Why won't she give this a chance to be right. I am a good man. Why is this happening to me?


What do you have control over?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> What do you have control over?


Nothing but myself. As an aside do you think I would get anything out of divorce busting coaching that Im not getting on TAM?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Nothing but myself. As an aside do you think I would get anything out of divorce busting coaching that Im not getting on TAM?


This is a great resource. But, it's impossible to get too much support when you're recovering from codependency.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> This is a great resource. But, it's impossible to get too much support when you're recovering from codependency.


How long are we supposed to wait for them to come back. I am trying to move on and take care of myself etc. But how long before you draw a line in the sand? I feel like I am waiting for the shoe to drop and that this could go on forever.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> How long are we supposed to wait for them to come back. I am trying to move on and take care of myself etc. But how long before you draw a line in the sand? I feel like I am waiting for the shoe to drop and that this could go on forever.


You don't.

Start moving on with your life, without hope of reconciling.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You don't.
> 
> Start moving on with your life, without hope of reconciling.



So todays the day it is over. My 5 yr old called and asked if it was ok if they meet posUM. I asked my stbxw if she thought that was best and she said that she had told the kids no, but they would not leave her alone about it, that she feels like she needs to honor their feelings..shouldnt have told them about him in the first place. I asked if she felt the the relationship was long term and if she was in love with posUM she said no that it was not a committed relationship. Not sure why she is considering introducing them then. I asked if she would give us 4 month to work on things..she said no..she couldn't. She said the idea of being intimate with me again gives her too much fear and panic. She is dating posUm and others I guess. Says she not capable of love, with anyone. Said that she believes that I have changed but has too much hurt and fear to come back. So I guess thats it. 13 years down the drain. I feel like this is all my fault for not realizing how much I cared about her during our marriage and separation. Now it is too late. Says she hates to see me hurting and would love nothing more than to fold up in my arms and have our family back, but that if she came back just because I was hurting that she would hate me and herself for it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She's right.

The only real reason for her to return is for her to be attracted to you and understand what she's lost.

That won't happen by you explaining, whining, or being weak in any way.

Work out, elevate your sex rank, and fill your life with fun.

She'll be surprised how attractive you become. You will too.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She's right.
> 
> The only real reason for her to return is for her to be attracted to you and understand what she's lost.
> 
> ...


Thanks Conrad, So just let her intro the kids and act like I don't care? Need to find a therapist saw you suggested a certain type on another thread?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks Conrad, So just let her intro the kids and act like I don't care? Need to find a therapist saw you suggested a certain type on another thread?


You can tell her you are not ok with introducing them to posOM.

That's what I would say.

But, you realize you can't stop her.

People do what they want to do.

*******************

Internal Family Systems is a truly unique and interesting method of looking at human personality. It's pioneered by Dr. Richard Schwartz.

Center for Self Leadership, IFS Therapy Training (Official Site)

Check this out.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You can tell her you are not ok with introducing them to posOM.
> 
> That's what I would say.
> 
> ...


Know anyone who's done it?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Know anyone who's done it?


Me


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You can tell her you are not ok with introducing them to posOM.
> 
> That's what I would say.
> 
> ...


So she did it..introed the kids to posUM last Saturday. My 5 yr old had to tell me..she did it behind my back. what happened to trust in co parenting. She would have gone off the deep end if I did this. Have been NC since, she asked why I have been ignoring her calls. 

Ok so what now..do I just file and get this over with?

As an aside have been going to CODA meetings..hope it helps as I never realized how CD I was until this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> So she did it..introed the kids to posUM last Saturday. My 5 yr old had to tell me..she did it behind my back. what happened to trust in co parenting. She would have gone off the deep end if I did this. Have been NC since, she asked why I have been ignoring her calls.
> 
> Ok so what now..do I just file and get this over with?
> 
> As an aside have been going to CODA meetings..hope it helps as I never realized how CD I was until this.


When she asks why you're ignoring your calls:

"I'm not ok with what you did Saturday"

I'm glad the meetings are helping you. Expect to feel much much stronger soon.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> When she asks why you're ignoring your calls:
> 
> "I'm not ok with what you did Saturday"
> 
> I'm glad the meetings are helping you. Expect to feel much much stronger soon.


Im letting my silence speak for me. She has not tried to contact me since. So what do you think Conrad...file or lay low?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Im letting my silence speak for me. She has not tried to contact me since. So what do you think Conrad...file or lay low?


Depends on what you want.

Personally, I'd keep going to the meetings and wait for her to break silence.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

She is trying to get me to agree to things about our debts and assets. What do i say about that kind of stuff?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> She is trying to get me to agree to things about our debts and assets. What do i say about that kind of stuff?


That you're not ready to discuss any of those things.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Depends on what you want.
> 
> Personally, I'd keep going to the meetings and wait for her to break silence.


Good advice..you da man Conrad. Great to have good people who have been in the war to get direction from.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That you're not ready to discuss any of those things.


I gave her 5k for a new car. She wants me to take over 2 credit cards ..I said I would but that was before I gave her the 5k. Not sure how to address this without going down the d road.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Good advice..you da man Conrad. Great to have good people who have been in the war to get direction from.


When she finally pushes for an answer:

"I'm not ok discussing division of assets with someone who doesn't respect my wishes"


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> When she finally pushes for an answer:
> 
> "I'm not ok discussing division of assets with someone who doesn't respect my wishes"


"well then we can discuss it in mediation"


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> "well then we can discuss it in mediation"


And, you say... "Ok" - because you give defiant people what they want.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> And, you say... "Ok" - because you give defiant people what they want.


saw the stbxw today and asked if we could talk this week. I about what? just about life she says. I said that I wasnt sure there was anything to talk about. she says she has something she needs to talk to me about. I asked if she could send it via email. I dont really want to talk to her right now. its prob about my nc. should I talk to her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> saw the stbxw today and asked if we could talk this week. I about what? just about life she says. I said that I wasnt sure there was anything to talk about. she says she has something she needs to talk to me about. I asked if she could send it via email. I dont really want to talk to her right now. its prob about my nc. should I talk to her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Just ignore that she said anything?


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Just ignore that she said anything?


If you have something you'd like to say, email it to me. I'm not ok with having a discussion right now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TLTL,

When did you give her the 5k?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

two weeks ago. it was supposed to be to pay down her car..but since I heard she went and bought a new pair of 275 dollar boots. I am supposed to give her another 3k.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> two weeks ago. it was supposed to be to pay down her car..but since I heard she went and bought a new pair of 275 dollar boots. I am supposed to give her another 3k.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dammit man, just say no.

You're paying her to leave you.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

She wants to live like a single woman, she finances her own life like a single woman does.

Stop paying her to leave you..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Dammit man, just say no.
> 
> You're paying her to leave you.


I don't know what else to do..I can't stand her being angry with me. I just want this to be over so I can move on with my life. I am tired of the constant arguing, blame shifting, and entitlement.
I am a shell of a man. I can't eat, I can't work I can't sleep. I just want to give her what she wants so I can be done with all of this. she can hang herself and have no one else to blame.


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I don't know what else to do..I can't stand her being angry with me. I just want this to be over so I can move on with my life. I am tired of the constant arguing, blame shifting, and entitlement.
> I am a shell of a man. I can't eat, I can't work I can't sleep. I just want to give her what she wants so I can be done with all of this. she can hang herself and have no one else to blame.


These exact reasons are why you feel the way you do

It will never be over until you find your self worth.

This is also one of the reasons you're in this situation.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> These exact reasons are why you feel the way you do
> 
> It will never be over until you find your self worth.
> 
> This is also one of the reasons you're in this situation.


I am trying..how do I manage in the mean time?


----------



## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

You manage what YOU have control over.

No matter what you do, you will be blamed.

Hell, I'm still being blamed.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Hi, I read the thread. You seem to be getting very good support and advice.

One aspect that struck me was the college fund. She is not only willing to damage your future, but that of her kids! I find at sad, as I am sure you do.

I would not necessarily be as short as Conrad suggests in communicating, but there is wisdom to his approach if you don't trust yourself to be controlled in front of her. I would have no issue telling her my feelings, but neither would I have an issue being distant if I needed to be. Gotta do what works for you.

Keeping giving her money is really dumb. Doesn't help you. Doesn't help her since she keeps avoiding reality. Doesn't help the kids since she needs to be responsible for them.

When my wife had her affair, I learned, like others here, that I cannot control her, only myself. Ever since then, even though we are reconciled, I refuse any sort of planning that would leave me vulnerable and reliant on her, and advise she do the same with me. She hates it, but the fact is if she wakes up tomorrow and decides to leave me, I need to be able to survive (plus what if she gets hit by a bus or whatever?)

Therefore, if it were me getting the wife to stand on her own feet would be a priority whether you divorce or reconcile. She can't afford meals? Fine..the kids can come to your place for dinner, but she'd better provide or starve. Can't afford the house she wants? Maybe realtors make good money...shame that she never took to that...

You get the drift? It's like dealing with a dumb teenager, you have to let them make the mistake, figure out the problem, and find their solution. Even if that process destroys the marriage, there is no alternative.

By the way, by standing on her own two feet and growing up a bit, she will learn to thnk better, which may make her a nicer person, and improves the chance of her making responsible decisions about relationships.

The other thing is, she is who she is. If you reconciled, could you live with who she is? What changes would you think were possible?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Dammit man, just say no.
> 
> You're paying her to leave you.


With regard to the additional 3k we discussed, I have surmised that you aren't using the original 5k you got from the kids college fund the way we agreed to. Based on that I am no longer comfortable giving you any more money. I will be sending a check back to the broker to be deposited back into the kids accounts.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Hi, I read the thread. You seem to be getting very good support and advice.
> 
> One aspect that struck me was the college fund. She is not only willing to damage your future, but that of her kids! I find at sad, as I am sure you do.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

had an interest convo with the stbxw yesterday. we spoke about our childhood and about how we got where we were. i told her that it wasn't our fault, that we brought so much baggage with us that this was inevitable, that it had to break before it could be healed. how could we trust and truly give and receive love after what we had been brought up witnessing. she told me he IC has been trying to get her to go there but that it was too scary. it a text later i told her that i was willing to walk they the depths of hell with her knowing that there was a better place just on the other side..her response..."I'm spinning"... said later that she knew in her heart that posUM was not a forever thing. said that i/us scared that **** out of her. we had an intense hug..said again she was spinning. i send her some harville hendricks articles about how childhood trauma affects marriage and the imago theory..no reply. i understand i am leading the witness here but it is something that has come up in my CODA meetings that I didn't realize and I know she hadn't thought of either.

where to go from here? I have contemplated asking her to read.."getting the love you want" that talks more about how childhood abuse infiltrates marriages and how your current partner is actually a perfect match for healing once you realize what crap you have been carrying around for so long.

my idea is this..commit to reading the book cover to cover 
or agree to see an imago therapist for a min of 5 sessions
and that if you still want a divorce afterword I will agree, no questions asked. 

at that point I will truly feel i have done everything I could to save it.

thoughts?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Stop trying to fix.

Remember, she trusts nothing.

She will view all of this as a sales pitch.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

but why doesn't she trust?..her child hood. your saying she needs to realize it on her own. whats wrong with opening someones eyes to something they haven't seen or thought of themselves? if she's not aware she is destined to repeat, guess i was hoping to prevent that.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> but why doesn't she trust?..her child hood. your saying she needs to realize it on her own. whats wrong with opening someones eyes to something they haven't seen or thought of themselves? if she's not aware she is destined to repeat, guess i was hoping to prevent that.


You try to open her eyes and it's a sales pitch.

Who is less trustworthy than a salesman?


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You try to open her eyes and it's a sales pitch.
> 
> Who is less trustworthy than a salesman?


it seemed to resonate..she is having huge issues with all of her family. especially her mom who is (surprise) certifiable. how do i show her that I can be trusted? you think the read the book idea sucks?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> it seemed to resonate..she is having huge issues with all of her family. especially her mom who is (surprise) certifiable. how do i show her that I can be trusted? you think the read the book idea sucks?


Pushing her to do anything that involves "gain" (for you) won't work.

You stay cool, firm, and dispassionate and she may provide an opening sooner rather than later.

BUT... if you push her, it pushes her away. That includes suggesting ways to "make things better"

Your best bet is to remain distant, but reachable.

She's going to come face to face with what she's doing. The more you leave her alone, the better the chance of that.

This is where the money thing comes in too. The cushier and softer you make it for her, the more it works against you.

You see, the moves she's making now have to look bad TO HER.

The nicer and more accommodating you are works totally against you.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Pushing her to do anything that involves "gain" (for you) won't work.
> 
> You stay cool, firm, and dispassionate and she may provide an opening sooner rather than later.
> 
> ...


i get your point. how do i show her that she could lose me if she doesn't get her ship together without threatening d? especially after an interaction like yesterdays interaction which firmly places me as plan b.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> i get your point. how do i show her that she could lose me if she doesn't get her ship together without threatening d? especially after an interaction like yesterdays interaction which firmly places me as plan b.


Start living your life with zest.

This includes meeting and hanging out with females.

Yet, put a boundary on physical stuff.

The good ones will understand - and you'll have a blast.

Take some of that money you aren't giving her and take a vacation. You need one.

Go someplace you've always wanted to explore on your own.

If you can't think of anywhere, I've got a spare bedroom


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Start living your life with zest.
> 
> This includes meeting and hanging out with females.
> 
> ...



stbxw calls this am and says thank you for the articles I sent. that it has given her a lot to think about. says the path is scary, that she was just trying to figure out how to exist. i told her i agreed that it was scary but that it was enlightening to see why things happened the way they did.

where do I go from here? i thought of texting to see what she needed from me given the circumstances. 

thoughts?

where do I go from here?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> stbxw calls this am and says thank you for the articles I sent. that it has given her a lot to think about. says the path is scary, that she was just trying to figure out how to exist. i told her i agreed that it was scary but that it was enlightening to see why things happened the way they did.
> 
> where do I go from here? i thought of texting to see what she needed from me given the circumstances.
> 
> ...


Get quiet.

Start living your life with zest.

She needs to seek you out.

Do not be afraid that she will not.

You know she will.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> had an interest convo with the stbxw yesterday. we spoke about our childhood and about how we got where we were. i told her that it wasn't our fault, that we brought so much baggage with us that this was inevitable, that it had to break before it could be healed. how could we trust and truly give and receive love after what we had been brought up witnessing. she told me he IC has been trying to get her to go there but that it was too scary. it a text later i told her that i was willing to walk they the depths of hell with her knowing that there was a better place just on the other side..her response..."I'm spinning"... said later that she knew in her heart that posUM was not a forever thing. said that i/us scared that **** out of her. we had an intense hug..said again she was spinning. i send her some harville hendricks articles about how childhood trauma affects marriage and the imago theory..no reply. i understand i am leading the witness here but it is something that has come up in my CODA meetings that I didn't realize and I know she hadn't thought of either.
> 
> where to go from here? I have contemplated asking her to read.."getting the love you want" that talks more about how childhood abuse infiltrates marriages and how your current partner is actually a perfect match for healing once you realize what crap you have been carrying around for so long.
> 
> ...


Nothing new to report after the thank you call Monday..havent really spoken to her..feeling sad that the revelation I thought we had together didn't pan out the way I had hoped..maybe I am being too impatient. I realize that my brain is idealizing what could be instead of what is. The reality is that she is deep in a fog that she knows isn't right. Has told and been told that this guy is no long term thing, she knows he isn't good for her. he is a drunk says she likes "no drama" sounds great to me too..lets getdrunk til we have sex or pass out..no drama...no ****! yet subjecting my kids to his presence etc? I am at a total and complete loss. she is broken and I can't fix her.

What next?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Nothing new to report after the thank you call Monday..havent really spoken to her..feeling sad that the revelation I thought we had together didn't pan out the way I had hoped..maybe I am being too impatient. I realize that my brain is idealizing what could be instead of what is. The reality is that she is deep in a fog that she knows isn't right. Has told and been told that this guy is no long term thing, she knows he isn't good for her. he is a drunk says she likes "no drama" sounds great to me too..lets getdrunk til we have sex or pass out..no drama...no ****! yet subjecting my kids to his presence etc? I am at a total and complete loss. she is broken and I can't fix her.
> 
> What next?


Get quiet.

Start living your life with zest.

She needs to seek you out.

Do not be afraid that she will not.

You know she will.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Get quiet.
> 
> Start living your life with zest.
> 
> ...


What makes you think so?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> What makes you think so?


Because your life is going to come together while hers is going to fall apart.


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## Dewayne76 (Sep 26, 2012)

That. Was just a slap to the face, a wake up statement. 

Conrad, you're awesome bro. I been kinda following a bit of this thread. 

Thanks for the Revelation Conrad. 

TLTL, Hope you can see that. It was a dam light bulb turning on in my head, hope it did yours too. SO simple but yet, took me forever to have it dawn on me. 

Good luck with your sitaution tlx2. At least your stbxw is hanging on a little harder than mine. I believe whole heartedly what Conrad is telling you. 

BTW, Conrad, where you live? haha. Thought about taking a bit of savings (not a lot left but still) and taking a short trip and not being available.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Dewayne76 said:


> That. Was just a slap to the face, a wake up statement.
> 
> Conrad, you're awesome bro. I been kinda following a bit of this thread.
> 
> ...


Thanks d76 but I don't really think she is hanging on at all. I think she likes to have her cake and try to eat it too. its pure manipulation. i can't be that guy. although I believe Conrad is right about her blowing up, I don't think she has the brains to realize what she's lost or what she's done. that is becoming more and more evident every day. how else could she be hanging out with some guy that hates himself so much that he has to drink himself to the point of passing out. dead end job at 40. a real keeper. they deserve each other. was going to mention to her that I wondered who he hated more her or himself if he had to be shipfaced every time they are together. gross and pathetic. starting not to care anymore. she isn't the woman or the mother i thought she was.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Because your life is going to come together while hers is going to fall apart.


Got this email as I am walking into my daughters play performance..nice timing. This 2 days after she sits and tells me that in her heart and soul that she knows this is not a forever thing with this guy. Your comments are appreciated.

Hello, Clint. I am writing you this letter because I think it is important for me to be really clear with you about the feelings I am holding in my heart and explain to you why they live there...

The very first moment I set my eyes on you I fell in love with everything that you were. I, never for a moment, regret the years that we spent playing with one another, growing up together, or becoming along side of each other. My relationship with you has been the greatest gift I have ever received. It was by your side that I found who I truly am as a woman, a friend, a lover, and a parent. I am ever grateful for the gifts that you have given me and my heart is deeply saddened by the fact that we no longer share that bond. I don't look back on our marriage with regret, instead I look back and thank God for all of the joy and strength that was born in that place.

I am so thankful for the man that you have become in the last few months. Watching you be true to your heart and soul, taking time to look deep within yourself for the answers to long unanswered questions and your willingness to do the work to heal is something that I truly admire about you. Your offer to walk with me as I do the same is one that I cannot thank you enough for.

What I need you to know is that, despite these changes, I am unable to come back to a place that, for me, was lost so long ago. I cannot love you in the way that a wife loves her husband - those feelings were gone a long time ago. Clint, I think it is important for you to remember that I stood quietly awaiting your return for close to 2 years. I worked hard on who I was and looked very closely at the behaviors I had that would push you so far away. I mended a part of me that was so very broken...my heart. Closing that chapter of my own life took me a very long time, a time during which I kept my heart open awaiting and inviting your return. You were not ready. I respect your journey and no longer hold ill feelings for you. Instead, I look at that time as one for me to become strong and aware of what my true needs and desires were/are. I am asking now, that you respect my journey and try to understand that my need to move forward in my life is not about rejecting you, rather it is about embracing myself...something I have never known how to do. I need to close this chapter and open a new one with you. I would like very much for us to be able to be friends, to give one another the support that we were never able to give within our marriage, and to celebrate each others joy. I understand that you are not in this same space, right now, and I respect that. 

I am in love with someone else. It is most important to me that you know that my relationship with Sean is not filling a void left by you, rather it has opened my heart in a way that I never knew was possible. I realize that these words must be painful for you to hear, but I also realize that I must say them in order for you to know exactly where I stand. I am asking that you remember the good in me and hope that one day you will be able to look at me again and feel happiness because you know that I am happy. I also want you to know that my children are the very most important people, relationships, and love that I know and that I will NEVER put another person or relationship before them. I have been crystal clear with Sean about this and he is completely understanding and supportive of my role as a mother. My choice to invite our children into my relationship with him was one that was made with very deep thought and the utmost respect for them. I want my relationships, with all people, to be good examples for our children - I want them to see what healthy love looks like and feels like. I want them see their parents being true to and caring for themselves - something you and I never had the opportunity to see growing up. I would like my girls to see what it looks like to be loved by a man and I would like for our son to know what it looks like to love a woman. I want them all to have strong examples of healthy relationships in their lives.

So much of who we are is a result of where we came from. Our children have all had very different experiences, but the one common denominator was that they lived in a home with parents who did not share love, affection, intimacy, or joy with one another. Instead, our children witnessed deep pain and disrespect shared between the two people who are most important in their world. It is time to break this cycle, for us and for them. 

Clint, I am deeply sorry for any pain that I have caused you. You are an amazing man and an even more amazing father. I admire you and hope that one day we will be able to share a friendship with one another. I want to celebrate your joy, your success, your love and I also want to be able to be there for you when you feel defeat and pain. For now, I know this is impossible - but I will be here when you are ready.

I am committed to being 100% honest with you about my feelings and my choices- I hope you will be able to respect them. I am sorry that this is coming in the form of an email, but it felt like the only way I could be sure to say everything I needed to say. 

Like I said, I'm here when your ready and in the meantime I will respect you and your process for moving through this pain.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Got this email as I am walking into my daughters play performance..nice timing. This 2 days after she sits and tells me that in her heart and soul that she knows this is not a forever thing with this guy. Your comments are appreciated.
> 
> Hello, Clint. I am writing you this letter because I think it is important for me to be really clear with you about the feelings I am holding in my heart and explain to you why they live there...
> 
> ...


She's a saint, what else can we say?

This letter is about making her feel good, has nothing to do with you.

She has showed you who she really is. Best to believe her.

Her drunken posOM is going to set one hell of an example.

It's up to you to show your children what a healthy man looks like.

Say not a word in return to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

spun said:


> She's a saint, what else can we say?
> 
> This letter is about making her feel good, has nothing to do with you.
> 
> ...


Likewise.

This is no different than if she were to send you one cussing her out.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Likewise.
> 
> This is no different than if she were to send you one cussing her out.


so it goes...so it goes. in my head I know it is for the best. one day my heart will agree .


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

spun said:


> She's a saint, what else can we say?
> 
> This letter is about making her feel good, has nothing to do with you.
> 
> ...


There is no way for me to say this better than Spun.

Her letter is about her. It's to vindicate her. If I was to make an assessment, it is a statement of her current weakness.

She knows she is wrong.

She wants you to engage so she can argue her way to being "right"

Do NOT take the bait.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> There is no way for me to say this better than Spun.
> 
> Her letter is about her. It's to vindicate her. If I was to make an assessment, it is a statement of her current weakness.
> 
> ...


I won't.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I won't.


Here's a link for you:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/44287-nice-expectations-ticket-emotional-hell.html


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Here's a link for you:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/44287-nice-expectations-ticket-emotional-hell.html


Not feeling so hot today. Really feeling sorry for myself. Wondering what I could have done better etc. Feeling like I need to apologize to my kids for not being a better husband to their mother. Feeling like a dipship for not putting my foot down in the very beginning of all this. the sense of loss is overwhelming. Even tho our marriage wasn't perfect by any stretch, she was my closest friend for 22 years. 

All worthless feelings I know. Feels unfair that she gets to play house with posUM and my kids like nothing ever happened.

longing for the days when we would go to the movies and she would fall asleep on my chest because it felt like the safest place she could be.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Not feeling so hot today. Really feeling sorry for myself. Wondering what I could have done better etc. Feeling like I need to apologize to my kids for not being a better husband to their mother. Feeling like a dipship for not putting my foot down in the very beginning of all this. the sense of loss is overwhelming. Even tho our marriage wasn't perfect by any stretch, she was my closest friend for 22 years.
> 
> All worthless feelings I know. Feels unfair that she gets to play house with posUM and my kids like nothing ever happened.


Temporary situation.

Cool

Firm

Dispassionate

Make sure you exercise today and immerse yourself in your life.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Temporary situation.
> 
> Cool
> 
> ...


Temporary? Which part? posUm or my state of mind?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Temporary?


You've heard it from her own mouth.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You've heard it from her own mouth.


Think that was placating and manipulation. Otherwise why would she be playing house with my kids?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Think that was placating and manipulation. Otherwise why would she be playing house with my kids?


Placating and manipulation to her aunt?

Related question:

Have you quit paying her to leave you?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Eff if I know. Any idea why her train of thought is? Does she really need to be loved so much that she is willing to take it from anyone? I know the answer, is just unbelievable. And to subject my children? 

Yes. Although she now has enough money to live for awhile. posUm will probably last as long as the money does. Guess I should I have thought of that. Nice guy gets the door..mat prize.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Eff if I know. Any idea why her train of thought is? Does she really need to be loved so much that she is willing to take it from anyone? I know the answer, is just unbelievable. And to subject my children?
> 
> Yes. Although she now has enough money to live for awhile. posUm will probably last as long as the money does. Guess I should I have thought of that. Nice guy gets the door..mat prize.


That means the current arrangement has a limited shelf life.

Work on you. Observe. Be patient.

And stand rock-ribbed against any more bolus' of cash heading her way.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That means the current arrangement has a limited shelf life.
> 
> Work on you. Observe. Be patient.
> 
> And stand rock-ribbed against any more bolus' of cash heading her way.


What am I observing? Being patient for what outcome? I want to be rid of this. I feel like observing..hoping... is counterintuitive to my recovery. this woman has a hold on me like none other. after all she has done to even consider r is co dependent at best. to think that she will ever have the wherewithal to admit her wrongs is a looong stretch. help me understand why cutting this off at the wrist isn't the best thing for me? i feel like hope has gotten me into the place I am. I can't afford to do that to myself anymore.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Be my guest. File.

I don't want to hold you up.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Be my guest. File.
> 
> I don't want to hold you up.


Thanks for the pm. I got the message.

Cool. Firm. Dispassionate.

Not a care in the world.


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## SCsweety81 (Sep 27, 2012)

Hey, hon.

I got your PM.

I'll get back with you tomorrow.

Have a great night!


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hey TAM bros and sis'. i need your help... I told stbxw that I was not ok with posUM spending the night or spending time alone with my kids ( he already has) Told her I'd like to come up with a parenting plan with a therapist 1st. Spoke to a therapist who said there are no hard and fast rules it all has to do with how this kids are handling it. Does anyone have any input here? I can't control what she does..obviously. And I have thought about cutting her off financially if she does not comply. But isn't that co dependent? 

I certainly don't like the idea of him spending the night or "babysitting" my kids. But what can I do about it? I wouldn't do it but..

I mean when is is ok? It will have to be eventually...right

Should I be thinking about this differently?..the more time posUM spends with them the more his and my kids...ha! true colors will come out. I can't really see this guy (almost 40, lives with roommates, no kids, alcoholic, party anima, dead end job) just being ok with waltzing into a relationship with a woman with 3 kids for another man?. she has a hard time with them when she has them ... it is a zoo over there. they don't respect her. can't imagine it would be too awesome for a guy unless the were his kids. even then it is exhausting.

I know the 4 month "honeymoon" has been great..she has prob been balling his brains out (she was great in bed for me for the 1st year too) until she changed..bpd. Is great sex and love bombing enough. I know how awesome it feels..i experienced it too but come on if she had 3 kids at the time I would have been gone .This really can't last can it? i mean ..really..what are the chances? My oldest doesn't like the guy..my 2 younger are clueless. 

Frankly I don't want any more drama. I just don't care for it anymore. i just want to focus on making my home the best place it can be for them. Show them that I am focusing on me and them for now. Helping them get thru this without any distractions. Which is what stbxw should be doing too after what she put them thru this summer. It sucks that they are having to compete with posUm now for time with her. Does she need someone around so badly that she can't see it? 

Told me a week ago that she knew it her heart and soul that it wasn't a forever thing with this guy, then promptly denies it when I call her out on it..THEN.. sends me a letter sat saying (basically) thanks for everything but I'm in love with posUM. Is she just off her rocker?

Sorry for the rant I am just feeling frustrated by the whole thing..Input appreciated.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Hey TAM bros and sis'. i need your help... I told stbxw that I was not ok with posUM spending the night or spending time alone with my kids ( he already has) Told her I'd like to come up with a parenting plan with a therapist 1st. Spoke to a therapist who said there are no hard and fast rules it all has to do with how this kids are handling it. Does anyone have any input here? I can't control what she does..obviously. And I have thought about cutting her off financially if she does not comply. But isn't that co dependent?
> 
> I certainly don't like the idea of him spending the night or "babysitting" my kids. But what can I do about it? I wouldn't do it but..
> 
> ...


Cut the funding until you get cooperation.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Cut the funding until you get cooperation.


what cooperation am i looking for now? The therapist basically told us..no big deal..depends on how the kids are taking it... Kind of cut me off at the knees. She is my youngests' therapist. any my youngest thinks its great because he brings his dog over so she can walk it. Not going to get much help from her.


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Okay, dear.

You asked me what I thought, so here goes.


You are being played, hard.

AND

You're paying her to play you.

She's winning.

You're losing.

She knows it.

Cut her off, completely.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TLTL,

You're suddenly "ok" with this because a counselor is?

Are they his/her kids?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Okay, dear.
> 
> You asked me what I thought, so here goes.
> 
> ...


Im listening..cut her off until when? Force her to file? What is my end game? I give her 1k a month based on my attys calcs (was 1500) until I talked to him and told her no more.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> TLTL,
> 
> You're suddenly "ok" with this because a counselor is?
> 
> Are they his/her kids?


No but that was what i said i wanted..to come up with a parenting plan. She (the therapist) undercut me a bit..wasnt expecting that. Now i say..well ..that did go the way i wanted so now the game changes again? feels hypocritical. Now what do I want? No sleepovers..no babysitting until divorce is final?


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## HappyKaty (Nov 20, 2012)

Like Conrad said...

Until you receive cooperation.

Currently, you're her pawn.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

HappyKaty said:


> Like Conrad said...
> 
> Until you receive her cooperation.
> 
> Currently, you're her pawn.


she did cooperate..and the therapist said no big deal..


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

looking thru my thread I noticed a glaring omission..not sure if I was too embarrassed to post it or what so here goes. In late June our MC told us that she thought we were in an epic power struggle and should consider D. (MC never thought to investigate why we were in a power struggle) My stbxw agreed...I was devastated and began to to some deep self eval of what my part was..a few days later I was ready to go to her to let her know that this isn't what I wanted and was ready to own my part. 

Before I could do that I became aware of an online dating profile she set up that was appalling. it said and I quote "i am not looking for a relationship, but dirty sex sounds great right now" this is less than a week after our last MC. when confronted she said "i knew if you saw it you would be done, I have made every decision in the last 13 years for you and the kids and now its time for me" a week later the site said " if you are looking for someone to f*ck I am not your girl, I am looking for someone to wake up next to in the am" My mistake I believe is believing that this was a phase that I could "nice" her out of. That somehow she would snap out of it. In hindsight i know I should have set a boundary. " I don't know or want to know you anymore, good luck with your new life."


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TLTL,
This is quite a saga, you have definitely gone over and above what most would do.

There is a story in the book “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Harley that is in many ways similar to yours.

You ask what is your end game? The end game is not have a good life for you and your children with or without her.

You did mention that she has BPD, right?

When you started all this thread in September, you were in love with her and ready to do whatever it took to get back with her. Since then you have bent over backwards. And she continues with this affair and very destructive behavior.


Too Little Too Late? said:


> Frankly I don't want any more drama. I just don't care for it anymore. i just want to focus on making my home the best place it can be for them. Show them that I am focusing on me and them for now. Helping them get thru this without any distractions. Which is what stbxw should be doing too after what she put them thru this summer. It sucks that they are having to compete with posUm now for time with her. Does she need someone around so badly that she can't see it?


Her actions are killing your love for her over time. This is the normal progression of things. If things keep up as they are you will lose all of your love for her and maybe even grow to have a great dislike for her. Lord knows she’s doing everything in her power to facilitate this.
When you get to the point where your love for her is dying, that’s when you pull a very hard 180 (or Plan B in Marriage Builder lingo). You need to protect yourself and the little bit of love you have left for her. Use the 180 to do this. Cut out the drama. 

Perhaps this is what her antics are about. She makes sure you know what is going on right?

When my son was going through the terrible 2’s he’s walk into the room I was in and out of nowhere start throwing a screaming fit. I found that if I said nothing and just walked out of the room the fit would stop and abruptly as it started. Shoot, he’d even follow me to the next room and start his tantrum over again. He could turn it on and off at will. See, a tantrum needs an audience. What’s the fun of a tantrum without an audience?
From what you have written I get the impression that she is doing a lot of things to show you that she can and to get revenge on you for what she sees as pain you inflicted on her in the past. And now she’s caught up in the middle of this mess with some guy.

I think that if you withdraw yourself from this drama it will stop. If she has no audience to pay to.. what’s the point of acting out?

Up to now you have been meeting many of her needs. The POSOM is still only filling some of them. Their affair needs pressure, a lot of pressure from everyday life. Let her depend on him for everything. Let her realize how much she depends on you and needs you.

You do this by respecting her wishes. Just let her live her life. But you pull back by doing a very strong 180. Do not reply to any of her txt’s, emails, etc. Do not pick up the phone either. Only reply if there is a real emergency with the children or some planning needed.

You most likely do need to file for divorce as well to draw some strong boundaries. AT this point she needs to really feel and live what life will be like without you. You’re attorney can file and draw up an interim parenting plan where it’s 50/50. The parenting plan can be filed when the divorce is filed. If you do it yourself you can file one when you file.

Stop going to the MC. The lady is wacked. She’s done a lot to hurt any chance of recovery. Often MC is more counseling on who to go your separate ways…not in how to save a marriage.

That book “Surviving An Affair” talks about Plan B. There is also a link in my signature block below that discusses it. It’s a good read to augment the 180.

Remember that filing for divorce is not the end the marriage. You can have the divorce stopped any time before the judge signs the final decree. There is also remarriage after the divorce.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> TLTL,
> This is quite a saga, you have definitely gone over and above what most would do.
> 
> There is a story in the book “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Harley that is in many ways similar to yours.
> ...


Thanks very much Ele. We haven't seen the MC since Dday. The 180 is firmly in place. As far as the divorce is concerned I really want her to finish what she started. I feel like she is trying to get off the hook by not filing, me doing it makes it "not her fault" again.


----------



## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

looking thru my thread I noticed a glaring omission..not sure if I was too embarrassed to post it or what so here goes. In late June our MC told us that she thought we were in an epic power struggle and should consider D. (MC never thought to investigate why we were in a power struggle) My stbxw agreed...I was devastated and began to to some deep self eval of what my part was..a few days later I was ready to go to her to let her know that this isn't what I wanted and was ready to own my part. 

Before I could do that I became aware of an online dating profile she set up that was appalling. it said and I quote "i am not looking for a relationship, but dirty sex sounds great right now" this is less than a week after our last MC. when confronted she said "i knew if you saw it you would be done, I have made every decision in the last 13 years for you and the kids and now its time for me" a week later the site said " if you are looking for someone to f*ck I am not your girl, I am looking for someone to wake up next to in the am" My mistake I believe is believing that this was a phase that I could "nice" her out of. That somehow she would snap out of it. In hindsight i know I should have set a boundary. " I don't know or want to know you anymore, good luck with your new life" 

MLC too? would love some input on this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks very much Ele. We haven't seen the MC since Dday. The 180 is firmly in place. As far as the divorce is concerned I really want her to finish what she started. I feel like she is trying to get off the hook by not filing, me doing it makes it "not her fault" again.


Your reasons for making her be the one who files makes sense. It puts more pressure on her. She has to face what she is doing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> looking thru my thread I noticed a glaring omission..not sure if I was too embarrassed to post it or what so here goes. In late June our MC told us that she thought we were in an epic power struggle and should consider D. (MC never thought to investigate why we were in a power struggle) My stbxw agreed...I was devastated and began to to some deep self eval of what my part was..a few days later I was ready to go to her to let her know that this isn't what I wanted and was ready to own my part.
> 
> Before I could do that I became aware of an online dating profile she set up that was appalling. it said and I quote "i am not looking for a relationship, but dirty sex sounds great right now" this is less than a week after our last MC. when confronted she said "i knew if you saw it you would be done, I have made every decision in the last 13 years for you and the kids and now its time for me" a week later the site said " if you are looking for someone to f*ck I am not your girl, I am looking for someone to wake up next to in the am" My mistake I believe is believing that this was a phase that I could "nice" her out of. That somehow she would snap out of it. In hindsight i know I should have set a boundary. " I don't know or want to know you anymore, good luck with your new life"
> 
> MLC too? would love some input on this.


How old is your wife? A mid-life crisis occurs when a person take stock in their life and then tries to either re-live their youth or live what they think they missed in their youth.
It could be a midlife crisis but I think she’s a bit young for that. Ages 40-60 are the norm for a midlife crisis.
Her ad about the sex is pretty scary. That’s not normal mid-life crisis stuff for a woman. That’s extremely risky behavior. Seeking out risky behavior is very typical of manic phase for a bi-polar person.
It seems to me that when a man looks for casual sex on a match site he’s doing something risky. When a woman does it , it’s about 10x’s more risky. The chances of a woman meeting up with a violence sociopath off a site like that is HUGE, especially with an ad like the one she posted.

I would guess that she’s in a long term manic phase and is spiraling out of control. I’ve seen it before with people. 
If this is the case, I’d expect her to crash soon than later..
probably about the time you go totally dark.

And if not then definately when you are dark and the OM walks. And he'll walk as soon as it's no fun dating a woman with a bunch of kids who now expects him to act like a husband and father... pressure on the affair.


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## bobby5 (Mar 21, 2011)

It is still early stages. It is the time you want to do most and should do least. You behaviour now will have a major impact on the future. Dont be needy. Dont be nasty. dont play games. Dont be made a fool of. Just be pleasant (not pretend mean pleasant) be nice, be honest, dont do all the calling and get on with your life. Even the positive things you do for yourself which she does not see, she will see in you. Go to the Gym, reconnect with old frineds. Date, not for sex or even a relationship, just so you can recall what dating is like. It will affect how you behave about her and how you control and manage your emotions. Dont dwell on the past. Think of your ex as someone you just met. So you are showing respect, reserve and looking after yourself. Give this say three months. Then revise and consider if you want to discuss reconsilliation. Dont beg. Dont be flippant. Its not easy. i got it wrong, thats how i know this stuff.
Id like your opinion on my question.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...nseling-end-all-hope-me-help.html#post1232658


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> How old is your wife? A mid-life crisis occurs when a person take stock in their life and then tries to either re-live their youth or live what they think they missed in their youth.
> It could be a midlife crisis but I think she’s a bit young for that. Ages 40-60 are the norm for a midlife crisis.
> Her ad about the sex is pretty scary. That’s not normal mid-life crisis stuff for a woman. That’s extremely risky behavior. Seeking out risky behavior is very typical of manic phase for a bi-polar person.
> It seems to me that when a man looks for casual sex on a match site he’s doing something risky. When a woman does it , it’s about 10x’s more risky. The chances of a woman meeting up with a violence sociopath off a site like that is HUGE, especially with an ad like the one she posted.
> ...


She is 40 and is pre menopausal. Said that her doctor recommended and hysterectomy. I have had several friends ( some bi polar) that have suggested the same. My understanding is that mania doesn't last this long..5 months and that BPD is the cause. Crazy never the less..even when she took it down a month later never intimated that is was crazy for her to do that.

Here is my plan. Next time we communicate i am going to let her know that I want to communicate strictly via text or email unless it is a dire emergency. When she asks why I will say that I don't trust her anymore..that i can't tell when she is lying and when she is telling the truth. that I am only doing things that make me feel good these days and that speaking to her doesn't make me feel good. When she says I am doing this because Im mad I will say that I am not mad at all..that I am actually relieved. Relieved that I don't have to be responsible for anything in her life anymore. I don't have to be the reason her life sucks, or the reason that she is in a bad space or having a bad day. That this is a huge weight off of my shoulders. I am getting off the crazy train for good.

She will not come over for christmas am. Again because I am only doing things that make me feel good and being with her does not make me feel good. We will not do joint presents as planned, she can do hers and I will do mine. 

Does this all sound reasonable?

Would love your input about the mania issue as well.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

It's all about Eliminating #3 from your life.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It's all about Eliminating #3 from your life.


Understood..how do you see that applying here? Am I thinking of this correctly?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Understood..how do you see that applying here? Am I thinking of this correctly?


*
She will not come over for christmas am. Again because I am only doing things that make me feel good and being with her does not make me feel good. We will not do joint presents as planned, she can do hers and I will do mine. 

Does this all sound reasonable*

It sounds eminently reasonable.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Having a hard time today. Looking for the motivation to get on with my life..work..bills etc. Cant let this break me. Got some great insight from being out of town with friends for the holiday. This marriage was on quicksand from the start..amazing that it lasted 13 years. So hard to let go of that dream but have to move on. Filing at beginning of the year. My hope is gone.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> TLTL,
> This is quite a saga, you have definitely gone over and above what most would do.
> 
> There is a story in the book “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Harley that is in many ways similar to yours.
> ...


Spoke to stbxw this am..she asked about a parenting plan. told her we could work it out in the D and that I would be filing at the beginning of the year. she would like to mediate but I just can't see not being manipulated into a deal that doesn't work for me or her. Sucks that it came to this however inevitable.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> TLTL,
> This is quite a saga, you have definitely gone over and above what most would do.
> 
> There is a story in the book “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Harley that is in many ways similar to yours.
> ...


Ele..you mentioned in this post that I need to save any love I have left...why?


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Ele..you mentioned in this post that I need to save any love I have left...why?


Are you still looking at the potential for reconciliation, if it is brought to you? 

If so, by doing the 180 and protecting any further emotional toll that this is causing you, you can save some of the love that you have for her. Of course, this is assuming you want to have a potential reconciliation with her. You may not. Either way a good 180 is the course to take, since you can protect yourself.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Did you guys discuss the type of parenting plan that you would have? Is she expecting full custody, or are you trying to split it?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> She said yesterday that she wants an uncontested divorce, and that she'd like to do it next week.


So I'm starting from scratch here at the beginning, so bare with me; these answers will not reflect any current events.

When she says something like that - next week - it's an emotional response in an attempt to feel good. Sounds like she's an emotional person, rather than a logical one. If so, she'll keep grabbing for such spur of the moment choices to mask bad feelings. Kind of like a once-rich woman I know who wants to keep living large but won't work, and she's been selling off her assets, one by one, just to have this month's country club fee. Too stupid to see she's running out of things to sell, cos all she cares about is right NOW's feel good moment.

I suggest looking at your wife and everything she says in that light. Try bringing comments about that into any conversations. 'I know you think this will solve your problems, but it's a temporary fix and you'll wake up tomorrow still miserable.' Get her thinking.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> i have decided to let her go. she has done some really ugly things in the last 2 months and i have been a doormat.


I assume you've read No More Mr Nice Guy and Married Man Sex Life Primer by now, right? This is essential.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> VA we have been separated for 2.5 years and I agreed to give her $1500 per month at that time. She said she wanted a divorce 2 months ago and I have been trying to nice her into coming back. Last week I found out she had be lying to me for 1.5 months about being in a relationship with a guy from work. I tried to nice my way out of that as well but of course it didn't work. She is committing fraud. She has been telling the state that I give her no support so she can get assistance. We live in Oregon. We were never legally seperated it was a verbal agreement. the state calc says i would owe her $700 per month when we divorce.


I assume you cleared this up with the state by now, right?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks guys. Ill just wait for her to bring it up again and let her know that I can't do the uncontested D and that she can have it if she wants to pay for it. What do i do at the end of the month when I am supposed to give her child support?


You start paying her rent directly to the bank or apartment. She can pay for anything else.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I don't want to be the perceived cause of the next one. At least by them.


So...you are such a nice guy that you even let your KIDS' opinions trump yours? 

You are their parent. It's not your problem what they think of you. You're the adult and you do what you need to do. That's the biggest problem nowadays, parents thinking they have to make their kids like them. I hope you've changed this opinion by now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Good question. she has said in (earlier) vulnerable moments that she is scared if she told me she loved me I would laugh in her face. On another occasion 2 weeks ago she said that if she gave me her heart again she was afraid I would step all over it again. That it had only been 2 months..she need more time to forget.


It's been 3 years, TL. Not 2 months. Three years of you PAYING her to be single. Stop letting her excuse bad behavior by blaming it on fear of YOU.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> she asked if I was "being with someone" I said none of your business told her this is what you wanted. left it at that. she called this am to discuss the liquidation of the kids college fund to pay her bills. she seems to feel like she is owed that money and will have to file bk without it.


She pulled out a HURT card because you went 180 on you. To try to rope you back into being her Sugar Daddy. Went for the throat. Not nice. I hope to God you didn't do this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> do we go to mc without her being fully committed to fixing this?


NO MC unless she is willing to prove to you that she is not seeing any other man.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> If I met her for the 1st time today I would be repulsed. Just feel like it is a phase that she has to come out of eventually.


No, it's not a phase. It's a severely disturbed woman with F'd up FOO issues that DRIVE her to this day. Whatever IC she is doing is NOT working because said IC is NOT holding her feet to the fire. 

Try telling her (I assume you stopped giving her $1500/month by now) that you will give her a couple hundred more IF she changes IC to someone you find.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> What will bring me the closure I seek??


 Therapy. YOUR therapy. Not hers. Weekly IC in which you work out your anger at your childhood and you work on your self esteem so that it doesn't MATTER what she does.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> telling her that I was no longer going to be giving her as much money as I have been
> 
> She called me today asking that I come over tonight to talk..that she was *having a panic attack* and needed to talk


Manipulation. Lots of women learn this. Especially ones from dysfunctional families. Poor me, you OWE me, I can't manage...think back to the Wild West days when a woman would pretend to faint.

IGNORE IT. EVERY TIME. That will TEACH her that it no longer works on you. She'll then have to come up with a NEW way to deal with you; hopefully an adult way.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> He says that I have way too much of my self worth tied up in her. I had a ****ty upbringing and am having a hard time being left. I also have had some self esteem issues. All of this is coming to a head now. I know what I need to do but can't seem to do it.


Hmmm. Exactly what I said.

You CAN do it, you just choose NOT to. You pick your FEEL GOOD and that is connecting with her. 

Pick a different feel good. Like running or boxing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Funny thing is I never did this shat during..the end of our marriage...I had become numb and indifferent to her bull****. That is why I decided to move out. Now that she is banging some other dude I can't seem to shake her.


That's just your low self esteem talking. If she doesn't want you, you can deal with THAT. But if she wants HIM, well, then, she just proved that YOU are worthless. In YOUR head. All nonsense, of course, but until you bust your butt fixing your self esteem, nothing else will ever appear in your head.

Is your IC giving you daily homework? He should be. Ask for it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> She has been hoovering a bit over the past few days... Friday says " what are you doing today, Im really missing you guys" Yesterday she calls all excited telling me she found a way to start a business Ive been wanting to do for awhile. I told her I didn't have time to do it solo..she said she would help me. I said I didn't think that was the direction we were heading. that she should do it herself. Not sure what to think. Trying to focus on what she does not what she says..so hard not to get sucked in. I feel as long as she is still seeing this guy I have no business giving her the time of day....do I asks her if she still is or get my answer when I tell her Im not comfortable hanging out with you while your seeing someone else...Thoughts.


That's because 180 works. It affects her that you're not laying down so she can walk on you so she RAMPS UP the attention, affection, memories, and flirting - just to rope you back in. It's all she knows. And her IC is a piece of sh*t.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I think Ill run with " I don't think its a good time for us to be hanging out together"


 That's weak and a copout. "You're banging another guy and I won't have anything to do with a woman who does that while she's married."


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> i agree with you both. seems so scary though. How do i tell her that I need space to work on myself and that I need "for now" to not talk to her. we have 3 kids together and seems that there is always a reason for her to call me.


 Why would you have to TELL her ANYTHING? Just freakin' ignore her. 
You: "Yes, I'll pick Johnny up at 5."
Her: "I miss you."
You: "Bye." click


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> She texts back is there a reason you're being so short with me? I say "driving...thanks"


You SHOULD have said "I don't like who you are and I have no desire to be anything but civil to you any more."

Why are you so freakin' afraid of upsetting her?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> What does being "friends" even mean right now?


Well, duh, it means you continue to pay her $1500/month - you did stop that, right? it's been a month, you let her screw anyone she wants, you stay her backup for everything to make life easy for her, and you take all the blame.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Reading it now but honestly the sh.t goes in and comes right out.


Then you need to find a support group, where you sit and talk about it and work out real life fixes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> IA spoiled entitled abuser. She want everything given to her...she deserves it. She is trying to get me to use the kids college money to buy her a camera..so she can be a photographer. Trying to get me to trade her my paid off vehicle 11k for a 4k car.


Just like I said earlier. All she KNOWS is instant gratification to hide today's hurt. No cares about tomorrow. Just 'fix' me today.

Stop being an enabler. She's a freakin' adult. She should have been in college for the last 3 years. She'd have a career by now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Slim and none. I have done this with her before. Spent 2k on sewing machines etc so she could start a kids clothing biz. Paid for handmade signs to whole kit and caboodle. She quit after on craft fair. Tried to get me to lease her a spot for a store. Said I was unsupportive when I said no. She didn't even have a biz plan. Paid for her to become a realtor..hated that too. Said how could I be so selfish as to want her to do something she hated.


All because YOU PAID FOR IT.

Stop paying for it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I gave her 5k for a new car. She wants me to take over 2 credit cards ..I said I would but that was before I gave her the 5k. Not sure how to address this without going down the d road.


WTH?

Come on, TL, have you learned anything? She works, doesn't she?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

too little too late? said:


> two weeks ago. It was supposed to be to pay down her car..but since i heard she went and bought a new pair of 275 dollar boots. *i am supposed to give her another 3k*.
> _posted via mobile device_


oh my god.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I can't stand her being angry with me. I just want this to be over so I can move on with my life.


:rofl:

What makes you think she will STOP DEMANDING MONEY from you once you're divorced? 

You are her CASH COW and she knows it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> With regard to the additional 3k we discussed, I have surmised that you aren't using the original 5k you got from the kids college fund the way we agreed to. Based on that I am no longer comfortable giving you any more money. I will be sending a check back to the broker to be deposited back into the kids accounts.


 Wait, what?

You took the $8K from the college funds?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> where to go from here? I have contemplated asking her to read.."getting the love you want"


That's an excellent book. Just give it to her. Tell her you learned a lot from it. And walk away.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I don't think she has the brains to realize what she's lost or what she's done.


TL, she never WILL - *IF* you keep propping her up.

The ONLY way for people like her to _EVER_ change is if they fall flat on their face. The ONLY way. Run out of money. Run out of friends. Have POSOM spit on her or worse. Get kicked out of her place. HIT ROCK BOTTOM.

As long as you keep feeding her money and support and conversations and hope, SHE HAS NO REASON TO CHANGE.

Are you ready to stop propping her up?

That no-longer-rich friend I mentioned? Her ex keeps funneling her money; has been for 15 years - _out of guilt for his kids who lived with her_. Every time she blows another $100,000 on something and might get evicted cos she went jet setting instead of paying mortgage, he comes in and pays her mortgage. I've watched her finagle her way out of eviction or worse at least 10 times in the last 6 years - and every time, HE bailed her out. See the similarity?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I worked hard on who I was and looked very closely at the behaviors I had that would push you so far away.


 :rofl:

Boy, she IS BPD, isn't she?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Got this email as I am walking into my daughters play performance..nice timing. This 2 days after she sits and tells me that in her heart and soul that she knows this is not a forever thing with this guy. Your comments are appreciated.
> 
> Hello, Clint. I am writing you this letter because


Your response SHOULD have been...

Great to hear it. I am suspending all payments henceforth. Sean can cover all your expenses. See you in court.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Eff if I know. Any idea why her train of thought is? Does she really need to be loved so much that she is willing to take it from anyone? I know the answer, is just unbelievable. And to subject my children?
> 
> Yes. Although she now has enough money to live for awhile. posUm will probably last as long as the money does. Guess I should I have thought of that. Nice guy gets the door..mat prize.


My best friend growing up was on "DAD" #7.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Im listening..cut her off until when? Force her to file? What is my end game? I give her 1k a month based on my attys calcs (was 1500) until I talked to him and told her no more.


Oh for God's sake. Just stop giving her money. She's an adult. Her kids are all in school. That is JOB time.

When she whines, tell her you'll see her in court. Nothing more. Let her scramble to find money. FOR ONCE.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> As far as the divorce is concerned I really want her to finish what she started. I feel like she is trying to get off the hook by not filing, me doing it makes it "not her fault" again.


Bullsh*t. You just want her back so you're afraid of filing. At LEAST be honest with us.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok, caught up.

Two questions: How many times a month do you go to IC and/or group therapy?

What books have you read?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Did you guys discuss the type of parenting plan that you would have? Is she expecting full custody, or are you trying to split it?


We split 50/50 and will continue to.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> My best friend growing up was on "DAD" #7.


Yikes..Fear that may be the way this goes too..


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Ok, caught up.
> 
> Two questions: How many times a month do you go to IC and/or group therapy?
> 
> What books have you read?


I go to IC once a week and CODA twice a week. I see your points in all posts. I have made a lot of mistakes for sure. After i got the "goodbye" letter I am done. Told her yesterday after she asked about a parenting plan that we could work it out in D. Haven't seen or spoken to her for more than 5 mins in 2 weeks. At this point I am done. Don't think I could ever forgive her for what she has done to me or the kids.

Read-
CoDep No More
Divorce Busters
Getting the love you want.
I don't want to talk about it.
Stop walking on eggshells.

Any more suggestions?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Your response SHOULD have been...
> 
> Great to hear it. I am suspending all payments henceforth. Sean can cover all your expenses. See you in court.


Didn't say anything. Wish your advice would have come then.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Boy, she IS BPD, isn't she?


Yep.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Read-
> CoDep No More
> Divorce Busters
> Getting the love you want.
> ...


Your first book should have been No More Mr Nice Guy, and your second book should have been Married Man Sex Life Primer. Go read them this week.

If you had read those two, as had been suggested, you would have changed this around by now. IMO.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What homework has your IC given you?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> What homework has your IC given you?


will do. filing the right thing to do bout now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No. No rush for filing. Get those books today. Spend this week reading and learning. Trust me. It will open your eyes like no other.

Ignore her COMPLETELY. Answer ONLY emails or texts - and when you do, ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 30 minutes before responding. Always.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What homework has your IC given you?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

trying to eat and work. says to go to as many coda meetings as possible. have been dark for 2 weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

why not file? do you really see a way out of this craphole?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This new 'push' of the last 3 months is not long enough for you to be making a sound decision. And you still want her back, right? Then don't file. Give her time to change.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

how do I forgive her for what shes done?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IDK. That's up to you. 

But not your problem right now. Your problem is fixing YOU.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

any more I could be doing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Getting a life.

CHANGING your life. Take a class. Join a club. Go to the gym. Buy new clothes. Hang out with your friends. Meet some women, just for fun. Start taking day trips on the weekends.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> This new 'push' of the last 3 months is not long enough for you to be making a sound decision. And you still want her back, right? Then don't file. Give her time to change.


how long does the push have to last?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IDK. Depends on what you WANT. Depends on how damaged you are. How damaged SHE is. How badly you want to keep the door open. 

That said, NONE of this will matter if you don't fix your self esteem and codependency issues first. Even if you leave HER, you'll just subconsciously seek out ANOTHER woman who will Use you and suck the life out of you. Until you get strong and learn to love yourself and stop putting up with sh*t.

The benefit of doing this hard work is that YOU start looking magnificent and ultimately marriage-worthy. To her or to someone else. IF she sees you changing and starts respecting you (something sorely lacking), and asks for another chance, then YOU can call the shots. 

But none of that will happen until you stop being codependent and start loving yourself. That's why I keep harping on all the books and therapy and homework and GAL.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

got it..what is GAL?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

get a life..got it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm just saying, you keep gravitating toward 'filing' as though doing it is going to DO something for you. Give you instant gratification. Fill you up. Make you feel good.

But just like your wife, choosing that route is putting on a bandaid over what REALLY matters - your messed up self esteem. You file, you'll get a 2- or 3-day high off of it and then...back to sucking up the scraps she throws. Cos you never really solved the problem.

Filing is irrelevant. Ignore the glittery stuff.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

That makes perfect sense. Thanks Turnera. So when she asks " i thought you were going to file?" What then?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

"I've got more important things to take care of."

and walk away


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She no longer gets to matter in your decion-making process. She fired you.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I go to IC once a week and CODA twice a week. I see your points in all posts. I have made a lot of mistakes for sure. After i got the "goodbye" letter I am done. Told her yesterday after she asked about a parenting plan that we could work it out in D. Haven't seen or spoken to her for more than 5 mins in 2 weeks. At this point I am done. Don't think I could ever forgive her for what she has done to me or the kids.
> 
> Read-
> CoDep No More
> ...


- NMMNG
- Too Bad to Stay, Too Good to Leave
- The Way of the Superior Man
- I Hate You, Don't Leave Me
- AWARENESS, De Mello
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

turnera said:


> She no longer gets to matter in your decion-making process. She fired you.


I like this...only 'he' fired me...I really like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

TLTL, 

You are just like me a few months back. I had so many questions and thought filing was going to be some sort of magic pill that was going to make me feel better instantly. I never filed and I'm back with my wife now trying to work things out. 

There are some very important things you need to keep in mind as you continue on your path to awareness and free yourself from co-dependency. 

YOU NEED TO FIX YOURSELF FIRST. 
Everytime you find yourself thinking about her, what she is doing, why she chose this, you are walking down the wrong path. Turn the focus inward. It must be especially hard for you since you have admitted to us that you broughtand baggage to the relationship. Even people with no baggage find themselves in this kind of situation all the time. You admit your mistakes. She can't do that because she is damaged. Like Conrad points out admitting a mistake means punishment to her. 

Give yourself time. Be patient. 

The best thing, what works best for me when I'm stressed about my situation is to go to the gym. 1 hr in the treadmill works wonders. 

I know you worry about the kids. She is their mom, nothing can change that. You have to become a better you so they get the benefits of having a strong father figure, someone with dignity and morals since their mom is not up to par.

BTW, you are doing good and have shown a lot of resolve. You are a strong person. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Another mistake we (nice guys) make is thinking our exes are incapable of hurting us on purpose. If we show weakness they tend to prey on us.

Show her no fear and she will start respecting you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Another mistake we (nice guys) make is thinking our exes are incapable of hurting us on purpose. If we show weakness they tend to prey on us.
> 
> Show her no fear and she will start respecting you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How do I get one the pain of being discarded? I feel so empty, no motivation to live much less GAL. It comes and goes but never good enough. No resolve...just empty. She gets to live this new life with someone to lean on..to love her and i am in so much pain. boo too I know..just doesn't seem fair.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Are you keeping yourself active?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> How do I get one the pain of being discarded? I feel so empty, no motivation to live much less GAL. It comes and goes but never good enough. No resolve...just empty. She gets to live this new life with someone to lean on..to love her and i am in so much pain. boo too I know..just doesn't seem fair.


Many doctors will recommend that you go on a 3-month prescription of antidepressants, to help you get past this. To get you off the couch. 

Also, you need to be exercising. 
You need to be volunteering somewhere. 
And, once you are sure you are done with her, if you reach that point, you need to be getting out with your friends so that you can see that women will still hit on you.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Many doctors will recommend that you go on a 3-month prescription of antidepressants, to help you get past this. To get you off the couch.
> 
> Also, you need to be exercising.
> You need to be volunteering somewhere.
> And, once you are sure you are done with her, if you reach that point, you need to be getting out with your friends so that you can see that women will still hit on you.


I haven't been exercising much because I have been sick for the past couple of weeks. Finding the motivation is difficult. Feel bad for my kids to see Dad not up to par. I think they think she is the healthy one because she realized it wouldn't work and moved on. Her house is all happy go lucky with posOM in the picture. I have been on antis for about 2 months..not helping much. I realize now how deep my co dependency runs. How did I give this one person so much power over me. The PA doesn't help. He is living there while kids aren't there and there al the time with the kids too. It is akin to castration. Thought today about volunteering will have to look into that. Feeling very sorry for myself these days. Gotta get up on my feet.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You may want to change your ADs. People often have to either tweak the dosage or change out the meds, there are so many and they all work differently on different people. Schedule an appointment. Right now.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> You may want to change your ADs. People often have to either tweak the dosage or change out the meds, there are so many and they all work differently on different people. Schedule an appointment. Right now.


Will do.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I haven't been exercising much because I have been sick for the past couple of weeks. Finding the motivation is difficult. Feel bad for my kids to see Dad not up to par. I think they think she is the healthy one because she realized it wouldn't work and moved on. Her house is all happy go lucky with posOM in the picture. I have been on antis for about 2 months..not helping much. I realize now how deep my co dependency runs. How did I give this one person so much power over me. The PA doesn't help. He is living there while kids aren't there and there al the time with the kids too. It is akin to castration. Thought today about volunteering will have to look into that. Feeling very sorry for myself these days. Gotta get up on my feet.


I know i have no control over this but can't stop thinking how off it is that my kids are thinking she's the healthy one. They don't see that shacking up with some dude before your divorced isn't ok. i haven't said a word about it and won't because i don't want them..perpetuated by me...to think ill of their mother. It just chaps my hide. Want to wring posOms neck. pretty cool to date some gal who isn't even divorced yet and be playing house with my kids..makes me sick to my stomach. Am I the crazy one for just not getting over it? Is she the healthy one?


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> TLTL,
> 
> .... Give yourself time. Be patient.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

and be kind to yourself - you deserve it. Make a list your strong points and look at it often to help youself become more positive.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How old are the kids?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

How old are your kids? What makes you believe they think she's the healthy one, not you? Have they expressed this to you? You are again focusing too much on her and this is why you are feeling depressed. Don't dwell on the past. It does you no good. Her getting involved with posOM before getting divorced has nothing to do with you. It's not a reflection of who you are but how screwed up she is.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

dupe.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> How old are your kids? What makes you believe they think she's the healthy one, not you? Have they expressed this to you? You are again focusing too much on her and this is why you are feeling depressed. Don't dwell on the past. It does you no good. Her getting involved with posOM before getting divorced has nothing to do with you. It's not a reflection of who you are but how screwed up she is.


Its mostly my 12 yr old daughter. Mom knows it wouldn't have worked why can't you? Stbxw has consistently been engaging in what i believe to be inappropriate covos w her and my other kids about love ..feelings etc. trying to make it right for them to lessen her guilt?. Told me 2 weeks ago that it was our daughter that opened her eyes to the fact that she should love again and be loved again..huh? Again all peaches and cream over there..posUms dog, pretend family, Moms happy so they are happy. Dad is the one with the problem of not letting go..Came up discussing Christmas when I said Im not ok spending time w stbxw on that day....why not? Mm said it was fine....why can't you? I look like the bad guy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Remember that kids flip flop between attraction to dad and mom. She's at the age where mom is her rock, but where she also watches her dad to see how men are supposed to act - to learn what kind of boy she'll go for. 

Just keep telling them your feelings; they're listening. "Mom left the marriage to be with another man; I couldn't accept that when we were married, so I can't be friends with her any more - I love her and it hurts too much. But I want to be with you guys and be my best self when we're together, so we'll have our own Christmas."


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Remember that kids flip flop between attraction to dad and mom. She's at the age where mom is her rock, but where she also watches her dad to see how men are supposed to act - to learn what kind of boy she'll go for.
> 
> Just keep telling them your feelings; they're listening. "Mom left the marriage to be with another man; I couldn't accept that when we were married, so I can't be friends with her any more - I love her and it hurts too much. But I want to be with you guys and be my best self when we're together, so we'll have our own Christmas."


Thats not too harsh? To much info? Don't want to throw her under the bus to make myself look better.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thats not too harsh? To much info? Don't want to throw her under the bus to make myself look better.


No. You are just saying the truth. She's 12. Without going into much details tell her the ex did something you were not ok with and although you both love her and will work together in their behalf, being friends is not possible right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A 12 year old needs to know the truth about why her life turned upside down. When she finds out you lied to her, she will be mad at YOU. I found out when I was 50 that that was the reason my dad left when I was 12 - he was cheating. I based my entire belief system on them just being 'incompatible' and it affected my self esteem, told me that my MOM was the bad guy for not being good enough to keep him, and therefore I wasn't going to be good enough for anyone...

She is turning into a clone of her mom because she's scared and alone and is being fed lies. She's acting on those lies. Just tell her 'mom made a new friend and it was a guy and that's wrong in a marriage.' Ah hell, screw that. I watched 12 year olds sticking their tongues down each other's throats at DD22's junior high school. She already KNOWS what sex is.



> Don't want to throw her under the bus to make myself look better.


You aren't doing that. You're answering a direct question - why can't we spend the day together - with a direct answer. I can't be around your mom right now. It's nothing to do with you kids.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> A 12 year old needs to know the truth about why her life turned upside down. When she finds out you lied to her, she will be mad at YOU. I found out when I was 50 that that was the reason my dad left when I was 12 - he was cheating. I based my entire belief system on them just being 'incompatible' and it affected my self esteem, told me that my MOM was the bad guy for not being good enough to keep him, and therefore I wasn't going to be good enough for anyone...
> 
> She is turning into a clone of her mom because she's scared and alone and is being fed lies. She's acting on those lies. Just tell her 'mom made a new friend and it was a guy and that's wrong in a marriage.' Ah hell, screw that. I watched 12 year olds sticking their tongues down each other's throats at DD22's junior high school. She already KNOWS what sex is.
> 
> You aren't doing that. You're answering a direct question - why can't we spend the day together - with a direct answer. I can't be around your mom right now. It's nothing to do with you kids.


After 2 yrs of sep and seeing what she saw in our marriage I can see why she wants closure however it comes. she just wants everyone to be happy and get on with their lives. Not seeing that what is happening is wrong. Being led to believe it is all my fault we are in this place...projection from stbxw. I feel bad for her. She is being asked to be way to mature about all of this especially when engaging in weird convos with her Mom. Thanks for the input..this is all so hard.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> A 12 year old needs to know the truth about why her life turned upside down. When she finds out you lied to her, she will be mad at YOU. I found out when I was 50 that that was the reason my dad left when I was 12 - he was cheating. I based my entire belief system on them just being 'incompatible' and it affected my self esteem, told me that my MOM was the bad guy for not being good enough to keep him, and therefore I wasn't going to be good enough for anyone...
> 
> She is turning into a clone of her mom because she's scared and alone and is being fed lies. She's acting on those lies. Just tell her 'mom made a new friend and it was a guy and that's wrong in a marriage.' Ah hell, screw that. I watched 12 year olds sticking their tongues down each other's throats at DD22's junior high school. She already KNOWS what sex is.
> 
> You aren't doing that. You're answering a direct question - why can't we spend the day together - with a direct answer. I can't be around your mom right now. It's nothing to do with you kids.


And yes she is becoming a clone of her mother..overreacts and argumentative about anything that doesn't go her way..the pre teen thing doesn't help.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Girls need to have LOTS and lots of talks with their dads. Tell her what you believe in, how you like people to act, what you think of people who act poorly, give her examples of poor behavior, and be sure to ask HER about people acting badly and what she thinks about that. My dad would take me fishing a lot, lots of time to talk; that helped a lot. He would have me help him build his summer house or plant a garden in the yard. Find ways to do that with her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Go to Daughters.com and read everything they have. Find articles to share with her and talk about with her. Let her see your viewpoint on different stuff. And definitely start talking about boys, and what a boy should offer a girl and what she should not accept in a guy. She needs to hear that from her dad. 

One thing I told DD22 that helped a lot was my belief that junior and senior high are for 'trying on' different boys in non-serious relationships. To see what she's comfortable with. Wait til college to get serious, cos you won't know who's still around by college. I also told her not to get too serious with a guy who's changing as much as she is, because the odds of a high school romance making it more than 6 months are really low. It kept DD from getting too worked up over the guys who ended up being flakes (as teen boys do).


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Girls need to have LOTS and lots of talks with their dads. Tell her what you believe in, how you like people to act, what you think of people who act poorly, give her examples of poor behavior, and be sure to ask HER about people acting badly and what she thinks about that. My dad would take me fishing a lot, lots of time to talk; that helped a lot. He would have me help him build his summer house or plant a garden in the yard. Find ways to do that with her.


i will. She and I have a good relationship, but we don't spend much time alone together. My son on the other hand comes over all the time on my off week. Ill ask her today about some things we could do together. Maybe a cooking class or something. Its hard because she wants to be with her Mom on her weeks because she feels like she doesn't see her..remnants from being abandoned this summer. Now has to compete with posUM..sucks. She asks to have sleep overs with her on my week but stbxws excuse is that she is always working which is a crock of crap. pisses me off. know it hurts my daughter feelings.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Start finding things to do with her that she can't turn down.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Start finding things to do with her that she can't turn down.


Any ideas?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What are her interests? Art? Music? Food? sci-fy? Tennis?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> What are her interests? Art? Music? Food? sci-fy? Tennis?


Art, music, photography, poetry. Thinks Ill get a sitter and tell her its a no no ( no no's) day for her. do whatever she wants.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> A 12 year old needs to know the truth about why her life turned upside down. When she finds out you lied to her, she will be mad at YOU. I found out when I was 50 that that was the reason my dad left when I was 12 - he was cheating. I based my entire belief system on them just being 'incompatible' and it affected my self esteem, told me that my MOM was the bad guy for not being good enough to keep him, and therefore I wasn't going to be good enough for anyone...
> 
> She is turning into a clone of her mom because she's scared and alone and is being fed lies. She's acting on those lies. Just tell her 'mom made a new friend and it was a guy and that's wrong in a marriage.' Ah hell, screw that. I watched 12 year olds sticking their tongues down each other's throats at DD22's junior high school. She already KNOWS what sex is.
> 
> You aren't doing that. You're answering a direct question - why can't we spend the day together - with a direct answer. I can't be around your mom right now. It's nothing to do with you kids.


I think her Mom has done a pretty good job of convincing her that we're incompatible. Hence posUM. She has def seen her fair share of upheaval. I would have liked to change that but couldn't do it alone. Grass is always greener.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Your daughter will figure it out, remember she watches both of you all the time.

Art, music, photography, poetry. - find all the little personal museums within 200 miles of your house. Take her on some day trips to go see them.

Find some clubs who let kids play the kind of music instrument she plays, and get involved in it.

Sign her up with you for an ongoing art class. Bond over that. Then start going to parks and things where you both try your hand at sketching things. Find someone local who she admires, and ask if you can pay them for some private sessions for her. 

Start going to the library with her to pick out one new poetry book every visit, go sit out under a tree (or somewhere warm for the winter), and read each other poems, and talk about what they mean.

In other words, think outside the box.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Your daughter will figure it out, remember she watches both of you all the time.
> 
> Art, music, photography, poetry. - find all the little personal museums within 200 miles of your house. Take her on some day trips to go see them.
> 
> ...



Starting to get really pissed off. My 12 yr old has been begging to have a sleep over w her Mom for weeks. Said she had to work last night..didnt. Knows she wants to come over so bad then says she is going to a movie alone tonight. My daughter was very distraught. Why can't she make her a priority over posOm. Said she would never do this..pissed.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Can you do it at your house?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Can you do it at your house?


She wants alone time with her Mom, but she never seems to make time. Always comes up with some excuse...posOM. Hurts to see my daughter going thru this. Has been this way ever since D day. Very selfish. Really pisses me off.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh, I thought you meant sleepovers with her girlfriends.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Oh, I thought you meant sleepovers with her girlfriends.


I wish..sucks for her not to feel like a priority. how long does this bs fog last? i am so angry right now. i can't believe she is so selfish doing this to us all. as of now there is no way I would ever take her back. not after all she has put me and the kids thru. i don't know who she is nor do I want to. Unbelievable that you spend your life with someone and never really know them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sometimes women grow up believing their 'future' is to be a mom and wife and they focus all their life on doing that. And then, when they hit 30 or 40, they stop and think wait a minute; this all leavee ME invisible. I'm just someone else's label. Why don't I matter? And then they reset their course to make up for lost time and live the next 30 or 40 years just satisfying themselves.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Sometimes women grow up believing their 'future' is to be a mom and wife and they focus all their life on doing that. And then, when they hit 30 or 40, they stop and think wait a minute; this all leavee ME invisible. I'm just someone else's label. Why don't I matter? And then they reset their course to make up for lost time and live the next 30 or 40 years just satisfying themselves.


How does that usually work out?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lonely. But they can't see that at 30. All they see is how they put on a front all their life - learned how to bake a cake while brother was out having fun with the soccer ball. Sat at home and watched tv with parents while brother went out partying and getting drunk. Gave up college to get married, like she was supposed to. 

Lots of crap to sort through. Often, they don't even start sorting; just start living a life of instant gratification to make up for lost time.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Lonely. But they can't see that at 30. All they see is how they put on a front all their life - learned how to bake a cake while brother was out having fun with the soccer ball. Sat at home and watched tv with parents while brother went out partying and getting drunk. Gave up college to get married, like she was supposed to.
> 
> Lots of crap to sort through. Often, they don't even start sorting; just start living a life of instant gratification to make up for lost time.


She had a wretched childhood. Dad was out of the house but an addict. Shot up and beat women in front of her took her on drug deals. Mom is a narcissistic nightmare is an alcoholic and a pill popper. Has always had a bad time with her. Has always used sex to get her self esteem. We had a great "honeymoon" period. But after that had a tough time connecting because verbal abuse, pushed me away. I took on as shame. Now is in a fog using sex again i believe to make her feel whole again. BPD and pre menopause aren't helping. but what do I know other that I can't fix her. sad to see.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, you CAN document every instance of failing to care for her daughter. If you get enough of a record, you can take her to court to get full custody so your D won't grow up to be like her.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Seems to me like you are still in the denial stage of the grieving process. Have to go through the stages. Give yourself time. It's normal to feel confused and have the WTF happened feeling. I've been there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Seems to me like you are still in the denial stage of the grieving process. Have to go through the stages. Give yourself time. It's normal to feel confused and have the WTF happened feeling. I've been there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am on the back end for sure. Just really pisses me off the she is making posOM a priority over our kids. Happened again tonight. Last night she says my 12yr old can't have a sleepover because she is going to a movie alone tonight, which outs my D in tears. Must have forgotten the lie she told cuz she calls and hr ago and D asks " thought you were going to a movie" ...no Im at home. D just has to say OK and get off phone...more tears. What a b***h. she is beginning to disgust me.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Have you asked her point blank why she is punishing your daughter like this?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I am on the back end for sure. Just really pisses me off the she is making posOM a priority over our kids. Happened again tonight. Last night she says my 12yr old can't have a sleepover because she is going to a movie alone tonight, which outs my D in tears. Must have forgotten the lie she told cuz she calls and hr ago and D asks " thought you were going to a movie" ...no Im at home. D just has to say OK and get off phone...more tears. What a b***h. she is beginning to disgust me.


My wife used to put my son to bed and then go out with OM leaving him with her brother and girlfriend who were living with her at the time. So if my son happened to wake up, mommy wasn't going to home. 

They so all sort of crazy sh!t when in a fog.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> My wife used to put my son to bed and then go out with OM leaving him with her brother and girlfriend who were living with her at the time. So if my son happened to wake up, mommy wasn't going to home.
> 
> They so all sort of crazy sh!t when in a fog.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


what a crock. daughter is getting the picture..caught her in the dumbest lies..said she went to movies, then later said she didnt. told d she needed to be honest about her feelings. she says..whats the point..all she does is turn it around and get mad at me..preaching to the choir.

lP
is it ok for me to ne honest with her and tell her that is why I avoid talking to her? she is either lying out of her arse or trys to turn something she did around on you. story of my marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> My wife used to put my son to bed and then go out with OM leaving him with her brother and girlfriend who were living with her at the time. So if my son happened to wake up, mommy wasn't going to home.
> 
> They so all sort of crazy sh!t when in a fog.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


what a crock. daughter is getting the picture..caught her in the dumbest lies..said she went to movies, then later said she didnt. told d she needed to be honest about her feelings. she says..whats the point..all she does is turn it around and get mad at me..preaching to the choir.

lP
is it ok for me to be honest with her and tell her that is why I avoid talking to her? she is either lying out of her arse or trys to turn something she did around on you. story of my marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dewayne76 (Sep 26, 2012)

HAH! I can beat that one. (which is sad.. very VERY SAD)

We lived at our haunt. 6,500 sq ft old church. Was going to be the location of hte haunt but Fire Marshal went back on his word for fire code (any dark attraction over 1,000 sq ft has to be sprinkled... it wasn't) So we built haunt on parking lot. 

So we had this HUGE building to live in, right. 120ft long building. One night, when I was sleeping in the theater, 110ft away from our bedroom /apt, on the complete opposite end of the building.... she left my 3yo daughter in the bedroom. Locked the inner door, and the outside door and went partied from 10:30. 

At 3:20ish in the morning, my sis in law said "ARGEL! Wake up! (my first name) I found JoJo roaming the hallways hollering for Mommy and Daddy! 

WTF!?!?!? I got up, looked all over building, not there. OUtside, truck and hearse was there. ... I tracked down the 2 boys' house. Yeup. I don't care to go into details, but it's amazing I didn't stab every heart and brain in that house. 4 or 5 ****s and 3 or 4 guys, all drunk and high. 

W. T. F. !!!! Kinda b/s person does this crap? 

I'm sorry, but these spouses that does stupis sh.t like this, really ought to have their frking azzes beat to a pulp! I'm not kidding! This is horseshiz. 

Sorry, thot it would be good to show you're not the only one wiht a spouse doing some of the dumbest, stupidest shiz imaginable.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> is it ok for me to ne honest with her and tell her that is why I avoid talking to her?


I am a firm believer in telling the truth, especially in relationships, ends of relationships, and when kids are involved.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> I am a firm believer in telling the truth, especially in relationships, ends of relationships, and when kids are involved.


You got that i meant telling my d right?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I always believe in telling kids the truth. I lived without the truth for 50 years and I hate my parents for it.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> I always believe in telling kids the truth. I lived without the truth for 50 years and I hate my parents for it.


I am having a hard time motivating myself to live. I dont mean that I want to die but feel so much pain, lonliness and grief. paying my bills is a chore. I lost my job and cant seem to motivate myself to even make arrangments so I can work again. when does this all go away. I dont even want her back anymore but am feelimg so scared. I have these 3 beautiful children who are counting on me and I feel like I am falling apart. everyone says it will get better....when?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I am having a hard time motivating myself to live. I dont mean that I want to die but feel so much pain, lonliness and grief. paying my bills is a chore. I lost my job and cant seem to motivate myself to even make arrangments so I can work again. when does this all go away. I dont even want her back anymore but am feelimg so scared. I have these 3 beautiful children who are counting on me and I feel like I am falling apart. everyone says it will get better....when?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is breaking my heart 

Can you get help somehow ? Did you go to divorce care groups , IC ... anything to help you feel better ?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

I have been going to ic consistently and coda meetings twice a week. Im having a hard time getting over the pain. the isolation. I need to move on with my life and start living. it all feels so overwhelming. scared that I will be this way forever. lose everything..my kids. just want it to go away..want to feel good about my life. model what a healthy person looks like for my kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Try to focus on the present. Not the future or past. It only compounds your pain. Try to get your mind of it all. Synth would recommend making a solo trip somewhere far.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I have been going to ic consistently and coda meetings twice a week. Im having a hard time getting over the pain. the isolation. I need to move on with my life and start living. it all feels so overwhelming. scared that I will be this way forever. lose everything..my kids. just want it to go away..want to feel good about my life. model what a healthy person looks like for my kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Go out and have a fun ! Find a new GF , go hunt , play golf ... whatever to keep your busy ! 

Don't stay home and avoid to be alone !

Go to AA meetings if you want all day long , just to be busy .

You have to be pro active ! It wont go away just like that !


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I forget: are you ADs?

Find some activity to do today.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> I forget: are you ADs?
> 
> Find some activity to do today.


yes. ad's but need to adjust apparently. so bummed about christmas. my 5 yr old d keeps asking why we cant do christmas all together like last year. should I allow it? am I just punishing them? really dont want to be around stbxw but would do anything for my kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you're not getting back together, I'm not sure I'd advocate Christmas together, as in the future you won't be able to continue it.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> If you're not getting back together, I'm not sure I'd advocate Christmas together, as in the future you won't be able to continue it.


I agree. just sucks the big one. christmas has always been good for great memories. time for.new ones I suppose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

makes me want to cry. I feel like I owe my children an apology for not figuring out a way to keep our family together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Not at this age. At this age, they need you to show them the new reality as an adult, their parent. They need that strength, not your apologies. Show them that this is just matter of fact, how things happen (I'm sure they know tons of kids from divorced families), and they will move forward more easily.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Not at this age. At this age, they need you to show them the new reality as an adult, their parent. They need that strength, not your apologies. Show them that this is just matter of fact, how things happen (I'm sure they know tons of kids from divorced families), and they will move forward more easily.


i agree. Just hate that things are the way they are. Don't like for my kids to be hurting.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Not at this age. At this age, they need you to show them the new reality as an adult, their parent. They need that strength, not your apologies. Show them that this is just matter of fact, how things happen (I'm sure they know tons of kids from divorced families), and they will move forward more easily.


Thanks Script and Turn for your great advice. It is much appreciated. You too Big.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Had a crazy tear filled dream last night. She came back. The last few days have been rough. Christmas shopping was hard..we usually did together. When does this heartbreak end? 

My brain knows it isn't right but my heart..


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Too late,

You asked my opinion. I read your first post, and the last few pages, I couldn't read all 33 pages. My take from what I've read, and this will sound harsh, but you need to get a life of your own.

Get some hobbies, start making new friends, be self-sufficient. You are way too wrapped up in a life that no longer exists. I also hope that you are going to counseling, because your issues from childhood are affecting your life and until you work through them you are destined to repeat the same mistakes.

Your wife has been out of the picture almost 3 years now, she isn't coming back, you don't want her back. You keep referring to this guy as POSOM, after 3 years, there is no POSOM, it's just her man now. You've been chasing something that doesn't exist. And not to be mean, but you sound like a desperate little b*tch. Your wife separates for 3 years, you're paying her bills while she is moving on, and all you can think about is how to get her back...You're just getting played, and worse than that, you want to stay in that situation.

Accept the situation as it stands, and then work on dealing with it. Move on, get counseling, sack up and find some self-respect. Create a goal and accomplish it, so you can start building some value in yourself, no man with any sense of esteem would be loathing for their wife after 3 years after what she's done.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

COguy said:


> Too late,
> 
> You asked my opinion. I read your first post, and the last few pages, I couldn't read all 33 pages. My take from what I've read, and this will sound harsh, but you need to get a life of your own.
> 
> ...


Thanks Co you are right. Although she just decided to D a few months ago and i wasn't chasing her before then. The D announcement def set me in a tailspin. Has been seeing posOm 6mos. Needless to say again you are correct. I do need to and am moving on. Thanks for the tough love. I needed it.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks Co you are right. Although she just decided to D a few months ago and i wasn't chasing her before then. The D announcement def set me in a tailspin. Has been seeing posOm 6mos. Needless to say again you are correct. I do need to and am moving on. Thanks for the tough love. I needed it.


It's a tough hit when you come to accept that your marriage has failed. Don't look at it as the end of your life, make the decision on how you deal with it the basis for your success. You can choose to wallow in self-pity and bemoan what was lost, or you can redefine yourself and use it as a positive experience to make yourself into the man you want to be.

There will be sadness no matter what path you choose, but I can tell you, that when you decide to live life and become a better person, you will start walking with confidence, and you will see the life you lived for what it truly was. A point will come where you will look back and wonder what the hell you were thinking.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

COguy said:


> It's a tough hit when you come to accept that your marriage has failed. Don't look at it as the end of your life, make the decision on how you deal with it the basis for your success. You can choose to wallow in self-pity and bemoan what was lost, or you can redefine yourself and use it as a positive experience to make yourself into the man you want to be.
> 
> There will be sadness no matter what path you choose, but I can tell you, that when you decide to live life and become a better person, you will start walking with confidence, and you will see the life you lived for what it truly was. A point will come where you will look back and wonder what the hell you were thinking.


so wish I could just snap out of it. the pain, fear, lonliness, grief are overwheming. its is the loss of a dream. ii am trying so hard to summon the strength. I dont even feel like it is her anymore. she is gone and I know I couldnt ever go back to that. she will never change because she cant see that she has ever done anything wrong. I know this. so why am I having such a hard time with it? in my mind I know it is a gift to be out. maybe I am scared that this new guy will stick and that will feel ****ty. like I was the one who didnt have what she needed. effed up thinking I know. gotta take my ego out of it. hard when you feel like you were replaced so quickly and easily. don't think I will ever be able to trust anyone with my heart ever again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TL, you were fine before you met her. You'll be fine after her. She is not you, nor part of you. She's just what you're used to. Her choosing you or not has no bearing on whether you live, survive, thrive, or enjoy life. All that should be coming out of YOU.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> maybe I am scared that this new guy will stick and that will feel ****ty.


Are you in therapy to learn to love yourself?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> TL, you were fine before you met her. You'll be fine after her. She is not you, nor part of you. She's just what you're used to. Her choosing you or not has no bearing on whether you live, survive, thrive, or enjoy life. All that should be coming out of YOU.


Not sure I was fine before. Fleeting moments of happiness. Felt like she saved me.I was always chasing that 1st year when things were so good. Probably why i am having such a hard time and why I stayed for so long in an abusive relationship. this is my time to really start a new life..a chance to really be happy. scary. hard to imagine a place I have never been. not sure how or when but I have to believe.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Felt like she saved me.


Then your marriage was doomed from the start.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Not saved me I suppose. Just felt like i was truly happy for the 1st time. that 1st year was incredible. but it was all downhill after when the verbal abuse started. should have gotten out then but I was chasing the "honeymoon" thinking that girl would come back someday. saw glimpses that kept me hanging on...for 13 yrs. even in sep I was happy to be out but still hanging on to hope. trying to find a way but knew that nothing had changed. we would both have to change. I was angry and scared at the way i had been treated. she couldn't see any faults. still thinks it is and was all me. when i expressed my hurt after d day she admitted...here are my faults..i yelled..i loved you too much and I stayed too long. at one point told me... I (her)used to be the most kind loving person I know...my heart is dead..she is dead..and you killed her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Aww, poor baby. By the time she's 80, she'll be on husband #8.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Aww, poor baby. By the time she's 80, she'll be on husband #8.


you think so?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

People who refuse or are incapable of looking at themselves will forever seek a new instant gratification and, once the feel good is gone, with throw that one away and seek a new one. So they don't have to look in the mirror. It will always be the other person's fault.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> People who refuse or are incapable of looking at themselves will forever seek a new instant gratification and, once the feel good is gone, with throw that one away and seek a new one. So they don't have to look in the mirror. It will always be the other person's fault.


Just realized that this is the first time in 20+ years that I haven't been in a relationship of some kind. What if anything should this tell me about myself?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That you're codependent and that you look to other people to fill the hole in you instead of learning to love yourself.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> That you're codependent and that you look to other people to fill the hole in you instead of learning to love yourself.


How do i fix it. Been going to CODA twice a week. and ic once a week. anything else? I need to be rid of this..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

GAL is the best thing I know of - filling your mind and time with new things, conquering things, accomplishing things. These make you proud of yourself. Sign up for some leisure learning (continuing education) classes at your local junior college. Become an expert at something, like wine or judo or a language. 

Volunteering is the second best thing - fills your time, HELPS someone or something in worse shape than you, and again makes you proud of yourself.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

turnera said:


> People who refuse or are incapable of looking at themselves will forever seek a new instant gratification and, once the feel good is gone, with throw that one away and seek a new one. So they don't have to look in the mirror. It will always be the other person's fault.


I'm putting this on my facebook status... 
this is sooo true...


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> so wish I could just snap out of it. the pain, fear, lonliness, grief are overwheming. its is the loss of a dream. ii am trying so hard to summon the strength. I dont even feel like it is her anymore. she is gone and I know I couldnt ever go back to that. she will never change because she cant see that she has ever done anything wrong. I know this. so why am I having such a hard time with it? in my mind I know it is a gift to be out. maybe I am scared that this new guy will stick and that will feel ****ty. like I was the one who didnt have what she needed. effed up thinking I know. gotta take my ego out of it. hard when you feel like you were replaced so quickly and easily. don't think I will ever be able to trust anyone with my heart ever again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this a typical BPD hangover? Cant remember ever being codependent before this.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Is this a typical BPD hangover? Cant remember ever being codependent before this.


You were never happy before her, according to you. If you weren't codependent you wouldn't have stuck around. Not that it matters, you're codependent now.

But judging by your post you have some deep-rooted issues that need to be worked out and so I doubt that your sh*t was together before meeting this one.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This is your ego being attacked. Which is why you're codependent in the first place - not feeling you're valuable enough to stand on your own. When someone willingly treats you like this, it makes your lizard go into overdrive.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> This is your ego being attacked. Which is why you're codependent in the first place - not feeling you're valuable enough to stand on your own. When someone willingly treats you like this, it makes your lizard go into overdrive.


My lizard has been going apecrap for 13 yrs. The last 5 mod have out into overdrive. Let her suck the life right out of me. Knew it was bad was too codep to leave. I see that now..thanks guys.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> This is your ego being attacked. Which is why you're codependent in the first place - not feeling you're valuable enough to stand on your own. When someone willingly treats you like this, it makes your lizard go into overdrive.


My lizard has been going apecrap for 13 yrs. The last 5 mod have put into overdrive. Let her suck the life right out of me. Knew it was bad was too codep to leave. This just compounds it. I see that now..thanks guys.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Been doing good with the NC for about a month since I got the "thanks for the memories, Im in love with someone else letter" she commented the other day..im hurting..the kids are hurting but i guess you're doing fine" fake it til you make it.

next decision is to file or not to file? see no reason not to at this point.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There's no rush.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> There's no rush.


Why postpone the inevitable? No rush..but what am I waiting for? Of course its not what I want but I don't see it working out any other way. I don't want any part of this unless she came clean and apologized..dont see that happening in a million years. she doesn't have the tools.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Rushing ANYTHING is not a good idea, until you've lived with the concept long enough for it to live and breathe and climatize and you have no feelings attached to it any more, in any sense.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Rushing ANYTHING is not a good idea, until you've lived with the concept long enough for it to live and breathe and climatize and you have no feelings attached to it any more, in any sense.


you really think that is possible?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yes.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

this will be the 1st "separate" christmas for the kids. typically we do eve and day together and the go bowling and to chinese with friends that eve. this year I will have kids day and eve and stb will have them for bowling and chinese.
stb just texted me asking would I please go to bowl/chinese with them. 
As much as i would love to I can't. not this year. how do I respond to the text?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

"stbx, you fired me as your husband. Yet you expect me to be friends. I cannot do that. I gave my heart to a person for life and I can't just turn that off to make things easier on you. Pretending we are a family will do the kids no good; it will only further confuse and scare them. If you don't want to be married to me, I am pursuing a life with my kids as a divorced father, nothing more. I suggest you do the same."


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> "stbx, you fired me as your husband. Yet you expect me to be friends. I cannot do that. I gave my heart to a person for life and I can't just turn that off to make things easier on you. Pretending we are a family will do the kids no good; it will only further confuse and scare them. If you don't want to be married to me, I am pursuing a life with my kids as a divorced father, nothing more. I suggest you do the same."


Thanks for the feedback Turn.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> "stbx, you fired me as your husband. Yet you expect me to be friends. I cannot do that. I gave my heart to a person for life and I can't just turn that off to make things easier on you. Pretending we are a family will do the kids no good; it will only further confuse and scare them. If you don't want to be married to me, I am pursuing a life with my kids as a divorced father, nothing more. I suggest you do the same."


Here was my Conrad inspired reply. " I am not ok pretending that things are a way they are not"

Reply- Regarding Christmas...not ok with pretending either. I was hoping we could be respectful of each other for the good of the kids. I guess I'm just hoping that one day we can be friends and share in parenting these kids with love and goodness.

Now some would say that i should look to be friends with her as that is something she has repeatedly asked for and wants. And that by doing that it will give us a chance to reconnect, to see that there is still love between us.

Others would say that this is a way to relieve herself of guilt.

I just can't see making her feel like what she is doing is ok. What if the relationship with this posOm sticks? Are we ever friends?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

My other thought is..we can share in parenting these kids....its called a marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I guess I'm just hoping that one day we can be friends and share in parenting these kids with love and goodness.


Your reply:

You threw love and goodness out the window. I will handle my own love and goodness with my kids as I need to from hereonout.

And if you're feeling particularly weak, add: If you ever reach the point where you realize what you did to this family, let me know and we'll talk.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Your reply:
> 
> You threw love and goodness out the window. I will handle my own love and goodness with my kids as I need to from hereonout.
> 
> And if you're feeling particularly weak, add: If you ever reach the point where you realize what you did to this family, let me know and we'll talk.


I like this, except for the last part--its an appeal to victim status.

And, we know what two people fighting for this position accomplishes...

More drama...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I know, but he still wants her back, so it lets him say he'll give her one more chance and still puts the onus on her.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> I know, but he still wants her back, so it lets him say he'll give her one more chance and still puts the onus on her.


I said simply...I will give the kids all the love I have. 

Really don't want her back just don't want be lane I think. the longing i feel isn't about her in particular but Im not sure that it is about. i know we won't work, just have to get over the loss of the dream i suppose. i feel confused.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

This grief you are experiencing will last as long as you want it to last. While you may not contact her, you are still living for HER. You are waiting for the next contact, hoping that she will change her mind. Why should she? She has exactly what she wants right now and everything you do makes you less attractive to her. 

You can't be happy in any relationship until you are happy with you. Then it doesn't matter if they stay or go, you know you will be happy, because YOU control the HAPPY BUTTON. How do you get happy, well it has been discussed her many times. First exercise, this is great for your health, relieves stress and makes you more attractive to that great relationship that is just around the corner. Secondly do things that you enjoy. If you have a hobby, explore it, if not look for them. They are a great avenue to meet new people. 
For example I like photography, you can do it anywhere, with anyone and can be something you and kids do together. Also concentrate on career, you have to feel fruitful to yourself.

Will any of my suggestions bring her back to you? Probably not, but what you are doing now hasn't done that and she has already told you it isn't going to happen. I would take her at her word her and move on with your life for you and your children. You need to cooperate with her, but you don't have to be her friend. You aren't her friend, you are her EX. Don't feel you have to explain everything to her, yes and no are perfectly fine answers. You have your time with your children, she has her times. Tell her to enjoy her time with her children, you have other plans. She doesn't have a need to know what those plans are, they don't concern her. I know this is hard this time of year. START a new life for YOU, I think you will find you are worth it (It's a Brave New World).
Best of Luck.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said "most people are as happy as they want to be" or something similar. 

Many people do not realise that happiness is a choice. You can actually choose to be happier/happy. I say you need to set aside some time to read up on positive thinking, affirmations and gratitude. Once you put this into practice you WILL feel happier and much more able to plan for a great future. 

*A negative mindset can only keep/bring you down. *

Positive thinking doesn’t work overnight miracles, but is helps enormously with everthing. I still say listen to the great advice that others have given you on here but combine all that with positive thinking and you will feel better and better. You will feel more able to cope well with whatever life throws at you. 

TLTL - *Please *do it for you coz you deserve it, and so do your kids.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

This will be a mind vomit..for me.

If I am honest with myself this was never a "good" relationship. We were always great friends but never as partners. I had a feeling in my gut that we were rushing into things. She was going into the peace corp in a few months after we reconnected and said the only way she would stay is if we got engaged. I was scared, scared to get married, scared to let her go. we had a great first year no pressure, no fights, no expectations. I had known this girl for 8 yrs previous and had not had one terse word with her...ever. 

then when we decided to move to sd together is when the trouble started. verbal and emotional abuse that i assumed would pass. we fought..fought about all of her male only friends. I was uncomfortable with the fact the all of her friends were guys and that she had slept with the all at one point or another. even her supposed "best friend"

we fought some more..it was physical (not me) sometimes. 

we eloped and got married in costa rica and while it was fun and beautiful but it was not they way you would assume being head over heels in love with someone.

we got back and were pregnant within 3 months of being married. she decided not to take the 2nd half of the morning after pill..told me 2 weeks later. 

Our first child was/is amazing. this was truly one of the best times of our marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So she's basically been extorting you into marriage and familyhood all your relationship. Classy.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

The verbal abuse subsided for a time but came back soon there after. I can honestly say I was never equipped to deal with it. It produced a lot of shame and anger for me. I became distant..so did she. I tried to talk to her about it several times. told her it put me in a bad and anxious place. she didn't understand. her mom is the same way and she comes by it easily.. 

Fast forward 7 yrs and 2 more kids and things are basically the same..little connection, lots of arguing, she was a stay at home Mom for 10 yrs ( with a nanny for 3 of those). I became resentful because I had asked her to share the load financially but there was always an excuse..or why isn't me being a stay at home mom enough for you. she spend money like water and would be angry when I brought it up. in the last few years she did try real estate at my behest, but rather than working she used the time to volunteer at the kids schools. when asked she became angry.."I'm not like you, I can't just make things happen, and I hate it, how could you ask me to do something I hate." this was a time when things were financially bad for us and all I was asking for was some help.

Always some kind of drama.

2.5 years ago we decided to separate. different households, acting as if..dinners, sleepovers, vacations etc. it was nice to be away from the constant drama and yelling. i could get away if I need to. while things didn't get better they didn't get worse. I wanted things to work but knew that neither of us had changed and I was too scared to go back. being in a marriage with her made me feel like ****, I never felt like a good person around her, like I was looking over my shoulder waiting for the next brick to be thrown. I was an *******, or a ****....selfish. 

During the sep, I had no real desire to go back. I was too scared of going back to that place. i was hoping that something would change, it did...she asked for D.

I guess what i am trying to rationalize for myself is why I am having such a hard time letting go of something that was never good. I had 2.5 sep years to try to make it work, I didn't want to.
Why am I struggling with it now. Why am i so afraid of being alone now. Is it my ego because of posOM. It think it might be. Maybe I couldn't fathom that she would ever move on. My ego can't take it so it screams no..dont go.

I don't want to be in a relationship like we had. she takes no responsibility for anything, never has prob never will. I feel like I have changed and learned so much about myself, it is far from done. 

I am sad that we weren't two whole people coming into this. I wanted to break the cycle for my children and for us. It wouldn't have happened without change from both of us. I would have been in the weeds forever. I have to keep reminding myself this is a gift. to be free of the toxicity and be able to start to know who I really am.

I do see this as a gift of being able to get to know myself for the 1st time. But there is a lot of self doubt and fear. I hope to come out the other side a better man for me and my kids.

it is a process.

I


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why are you having trouble? Because it's a bigger hit to your ego. Before, you could pretend you were just humoring her. Now, you have to face everyone and admit you couldn't (or wouldn't) save the marriage. You aren't superman.

I think it's more admirable for you to face this and say look at what you've learned and how much better of a partner you're now going to be for the RIGHT woman. Be proud of that.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Why are you having trouble? Because it's a bigger hit to your ego. Before, you could pretend you were just humoring her. Now, you have to face everyone and admit you couldn't (or wouldn't) save the marriage. You aren't superman.
> 
> I think it's more admirable for you to face this and say look at what you've learned and how much better of a partner you're now going to be for the RIGHT woman. Be proud of that.


Well I do no now what I am and am not ok with. Wish I could have been stronger during my M. 

During the sep I was happy, ok being alone, but I wasn't working on myself. That didn't happen until D. then all the wheels came off. can't describe the devastation. why?

I couldn't do it alone. I tried. I pulled out all the stops. but would have taken both of us taking a hard look at ourselves and our marriage and be willing to change. she can't do that, it was always all my fault, everything." all I did was love you too much and stay too long"

You'd think Id be happy, happy to be free from all the abuse and drama, constant blame shifting, lack of love.

Wish I could just snap out of it and get on with my life...patience.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Therapy is what you need to reach that place. You learn a lot there. But it takes time.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Therapy is what you need to reach that place. You learn a lot there. But it takes time.


Wish I could get her a lobotomy to remove the selfishness and *****iness.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Wish I could get her a lobotomy to remove the selfishness and *****iness.


I wish you would stop focusing on her and work in yourself.

Sadly we don't always get what we wish for.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Wish I could get her a lobotomy to remove the selfishness and *****iness.


 Uh, I was talking about you. So you can value yourself enough to walk away when you need to, and not fall apart if you do.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> I wish you would stop focusing on her and work in yourself.
> 
> Sadly we don't always get what we wish for.


i know. i am trying. i am struggling with anxiety and panic attacks. everywhere I go i see families together..happy. every one on the radio reminds me. i am feeling so low. feeling like I took everything i had for granted. stick with me guys i need your support. i want so bad to get out of this space and be happy. thanks for being there for me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Every person who ends up divorcing and who comes back later for an update tells us it was the best decision they made. That they are now happy and with a BETTER person than the spouse they chose when they didn't know any better. Once you go through what you're going through, you learn to fix your picker Hopefully.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I used to feel down last summer when I would take my son to a park and see family together. Then he would give me a wink and a smile my sadness would dissapear. It will get better brother, I promise. 

But listen to the advice we are giving you, act on it. Focus on you. If you don't have activities planned out for this weekend you are not following the advice. Go out, drink, run, jump, get angry and take it out at the gym, READ! 

We are here, not going anywhere. You stuck with us! LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Every person who ends up divorcing and who comes back later for an update tells us it was the best decision they made. That they are now happy and with a BETTER person than the spouse they chose when they didn't know any better. Once you go through what you're going through, you learn to fix your picker Hopefully.


Thanks Turn,

lord I hope so. I have to get out of this space. Feel like I am on the verge of losing everything. I am self employed and will be up **** creek if I don't snap out of this and start working again. i feel paralyzed, even the most menial tasks, dishes, eating, ..anything feels overwhelming...incites an anxiety attack. when does it stop?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I used to feel down last summer when I would take my son to a park and see family together. Then he would give me a wink and a smile my sadness would dissapear. It will get better brother, I promise.
> 
> But listen to the advice we are giving you, act on it. Focus on you. If you don't have activities planned out for this weekend you are not following the advice. Go out, drink, run, jump, get angry and take it out at the gym, READ!
> 
> ...


Taking my boy to a fishing clinic this am. Should be a blast. Thanks Life.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks Turn,
> 
> lord I hope so. I have to get out of this space. Feel like I am on the verge of losing everything. I am self employed and will be up **** creek if I don't snap out of this and start working again. i feel paralyzed, even the most menial tasks, dishes, eating, ..anything feels overwhelming...incites an anxiety attack. when does it stop?


It 'stops' when you start doing the dishes because they actually must get done.

These are small little things you COULD be doing to feel good about yourself but instead you sit on your hands and over think every.little.detail.

You need to start building a foundation that consists of only yourself.

Start doing things TLTL, anything. Go for a walk, do those dishes, clean up the place.

Why wouldn't those things make you feel better?

Too stuck on the labels of society?

Should be doing 'more'?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pity parties are not attractive. Maybe for a day or two. Then it's time to take care of what must be taken care of.

You need to have your antidepressants adjusted.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

turnera said:


> Pity parties are not attractive. Maybe for a day or two. Then it's time to take care of what must be taken care of.
> 
> You need to have your antidepressants adjusted.


Or if possible, get off antidepressants all together.

That though, should be discussed with a doctor.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Taking my boy to a fishing clinic this am. Should be a blast. Thanks Life.


I am certain both of you will have a blast.

One foot in front of the other - one day at a time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

When someone's incapable of even doing dishes, I doubt removing ADs is the answer. Not for right now.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Took my son to school today and he started crying uncontrollably. Couldn't tell me why. Said he need to stay home w me today. I hate this. How can someone just turn their back on their family when someone is so willing to make things work, especially with 3 kids. I wasn't perfect and have admitted all my faults. If there is a chance to save your family you take it...dont you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lots of people, especially this generation, don't.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> If there is a chance to save your family you take it...dont you?


Not when one believes they are the center of the universe...


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> Not when one believes they are the center of the universe...


I could see it if nothing had changed, go back to status quo wouldn't be good. But when someone opens their soul to you, and looks into themselves for the truth and admits it... she said she sees the changes but they are not enough. addicted to the honeymoon is suppose. all about her..always has been. is it wrong for me to be wishing for her to eat a big **** sandwich?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

hard not to focus on her on days like this..no need for my son to feel this way. when does karma swing back?


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I could see it if nothing had changed, go back to status quo wouldn't be good. But when someone opens their soul to you, and looks into themselves for the truth and admits it... she said she sees the changes but they are not enough. addicted to the honeymoon is suppose. all about her..always has been. is it wrong for me to be wishing for her to eat a big **** sandwich?


Nothing will ever happen as long as posOM is in the picture.

The chances of them making it long term are slim to none.

But, that's not your problem now is it?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> Nothing will ever happen as long as posOM is in the picture.
> 
> The chances of them making it long term are slim to none.
> 
> But, that's not your problem now is it?


Nope.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> when does karma swing back?


When you get yourself together and no longer invite a train wreck of woman like her into your life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> hard not to focus on her on days like this..no need for my son to feel this way. when does karma swing back?


 When you let go.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

This breaks my heart? My son once broke into tears one night I dropped him off. How old is your son? I know is hard but that's the hand you have been dealt. Best you can do is be there for your son as much as possible. But you two have been separated for years ... has he done this before?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> This breaks my heart? My son once broke into tears one night I dropped him off. How old is your son? I know is hard but that's the hand you have been dealt. Best you can do is be there for your son as much as possible. But you two have been separated for years ... has he done this before?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes but we did act "as if" lots of dinners, events, vacations, sleep overs etc. He has broken down before, think the addition of posOm into daily life could be doing it?Makes it more real?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Yes but we did act "as if" lots of dinners, events, vacations, sleep overs etc. He has broken down before, think the addition of posOm into daily life could be doing it?Makes it more real?


Definitely makes it more real. We were 3 months into the separation when my son started crying that time and OM was in the picture. I don't think OM had gone to my house but my son had seen him I think. A few days prior as I was driving to the mall, my son was in the back and said "Daddy, Mommy has a friend, a boy friend".


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Definitely makes it more real. We were 3 months into the separation when my son started crying that time and OM was in the picture. I don't think OM had gone to my house but my son had seen him I think. A few days prior as I was driving to the mall, my son was in the back and said "Daddy, Mommy has a friend, a boy friend".


Sucks big time. They are doing "family" stuff now. Going to the pool together, dinner etc. I hope it blows up in her face..


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> i feel paralyzed, even the most menial tasks, dishes, eating, ..anything feels overwhelming...incites an anxiety attack. when does it stop?


TLTL, when my BPDer exW had me arrested and thrown out of my own home, it took me a year before the overwhelming feeling passed. I was overwhelmed by losing all five of my adult stepchildren and by her filing a RO that barred me from my home for 18 months.

I had experienced such dramatic changes that I felt I couldn't tolerate one more change, no matter how small. So I did everything I could to keep changes to an absolute minimum. The only constant in my life was my job, so I maximized that by going to work 7days/week for the full year. And I avoided buying anything new -- not even underwear -- except for groceries and meals eaten out. It took me an additional year before I started dating again. 

The good news, however, is that the pain and anxiety does stop. In retrospect, I consider that painful breakup to be one of the best things I ever did for myself.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Uptown said:


> TLTL, when my BPDer exW had me arrested and thrown out of my own home, it took me a year before the overwhelming feeling passed. I was overwhelmed by losing all five of my adult stepchildren and by her filing a RO that barred me from my home for 18 months.
> 
> I had experienced such dramatic changes that I felt I couldn't tolerate one more change, no matter how small. So I did everything I could to keep changes to an absolute minimum. The only constant in my life was my job, so I maximized that by going to work 7days/week for the full year. And I avoided buying anything new -- not even underwear -- except for groceries and meals eaten out. It took me an additional year before I started dating again.
> 
> The good news, however, is that the pain and anxiety does stop. In retrospect, I consider that painful breakup to be one of the best things I ever did for myself.


I hope to feel the same way one day.The family piece is what is miss most. for me..for my kids. i realize that she is incapable of having a real relationship, that takes introspect, but it doesn't make it hurt any less. if i am honest i knew it would come to this. the 2 yr sep was a waiting game so see if anything would change, i knew i couldn't go back to the way things were. unfortunately we were both too protective of our childhood wounds. I have begun to do that work and it has been very eye opening. she just can't do it. i am the ogre and she is the innocent victim.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I hope to feel the same way one day.The family piece is what is miss most. for me..for my kids. i realize that she is incapable of having a real relationship, that takes introspect, but it doesn't make it hurt any less. if i am honest i knew it would come to this. the 2 yr sep was a waiting game so see if anything would change, i knew i couldn't go back to the way things were. unfortunately we were both too protective of our childhood wounds. I have begun to do that work and it has been very eye opening. she just can't do it. i am the ogre and she is the innocent victim.


You are light years ahead in this game called life.

Embrace your awareness.

Live it. 

Then love it.

And, the universe will pay you back, 100 fold.

A whole new world awaits you, tltl.

;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

spun said:


> You are light years ahead in this game called life.
> 
> Embrace your awareness.
> 
> ...


Thanks Spun, I have a long way to go. Wish marriage would have come with a manual..The examples we had werent very good. Wish she would realize it too.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

2Lx2, it's a crap lot this divorce game. nobody wins and nobody wants to play. keep on keeping on.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Got this card from stbxw in the mail today. I am having a hard time figuring out what the point is.

"I want to thank you for challenging me to begin living in this moment. I am working hard to let the pain of the past and the uncertainty of the future go. To live right now and accept my life and those I share it with for what it is at this very moment. My heart is healing and my thoughts of you have returned to those of sweet memories & gratitude for the amazing father that you are. thank you for the immense love and strength you have for our children, tho is by far the greatest gift you could ever give."

WTF? Not even sure what this means.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

In my opinion ... she wants to ease her guilt or she wants to resuscitate the possibility of you as her backup plan. Maybe things are turning sour with OM. 

My advice ... ignore! A simple thank you will suffice.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

She's just rattling about with affirmations. Looking for closure so that you can still be "friends". 

Actions matter; words don't. Scrap the card and inch forward.


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## coachman (Jan 31, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> In my opinion ... she wants to ease her guilt or she wants to resuscitate the possibility of you as her backup plan. Maybe things are turning sour with OM.
> 
> My advice ... ignore! A simple thank you will suffice.


:iagree: 100%

Total manipulative mindfvck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Translation: I can now tell everyone that you gave me a GIFT in pushing me away from you because now I can be the real person I was meant to be, once I dealt with all your crap and was brave and strong enough to leave you. So thank you for being so horrible to me that I had to go out and find myself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lifescript, that's beta male talking. Why would such a woman deserve a response?

If anything, respond and say 'thank you, too - now that I'm free of you, I see how many wonderful opportunities in life I've given up over the years to please you. So I'm working hard to catch up.  '


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Seeing that they have kids together is in his best interest to keep the peace. If no kids were involved I wouldn't even say thanks. 

That's my opinion. 

It's not like he's saying I miss you, I love you, I'm a great father, let's try again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why does he have to thank her?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Why does he have to thank her?


I not going to say a word. pretend i never got it. It in my opinion is a way to try to soften me up before D.

To me it says..thanks for inspiring me to live for today without thought of any consequences or anyone but myself. really a disguised eff u.

I am thinking good thoughts about you again You should be grateful,because you were such an ******* and I am perfect, thats why I'm in love again so quickly. thanks for the inspiration.

wish she would just leave me the eff alone. I think I have made it pretty clear by my NC ignoring phone call etc that I want nothing to do with her. I get it..I m a great Dad..i know that. telling me once a week isn't necessary. now please piss off.
fugg I am angry.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Just read "surviving an affair" there is a letter suggested that essentially says..i apologize for creating an environment that allowed an affair. I effed up and didn't meet you emotional needs. I am willing to change.im going nc. when you get rid of posOm let me know..no financial support. nothing..I still love you and will do whatever it takes to make this work. but can't see or talk to you, while you are with posOm.

useful as a last resort?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Just read "*surviving an affair*" there is a letter suggested that essentially says..i apologize for creating an environment that allowed an affair. I effed up and didn't meet you emotional needs. I am willing to change.im going nc. when you get rid of posOm let me know..no financial support. nothing..I still love you and will do whatever it takes to make this work. but can't see or talk to you, while you are with posOm.
> 
> *useful as a last resort?*


I'm going to write a book.

Titled.

"Surviving an Affair, What A Sh!t Ass Book"


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> I'm going to write a book.
> 
> Titled.
> 
> "Surviving an Affair, What A Sh!t Ass Book"


point taken.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I highly believe in it. Send it via real mail, so she'll have a real piece of paper to look at from time to time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cheaters aren't monsters, per se. They used to be human and they used to have real feelings and chances are good (unless they're psychotic) that there was a measure of unhappiness there before OM came along. EVERY marriage has that. Even ones that pretend they're perfect. Nothing wrong with admitting that, showing you have class, and then disappearing because you're showing her how to respect you.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Cheaters aren't monsters,


Funny. I thought cheaters were people kidnapped by evil madmen who through ritualistic practice tore out their souls and possessed their empty hearts with exercised demon spirits.

Hmm guess you learn a new thing every day.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Cheaters aren't monsters, per se. They used to be human and they used to have real feelings and chances are good (unless they're psychotic) that there was a measure of unhappiness there before OM came along. EVERY marriage has that. Even ones that pretend they're perfect. Nothing wrong with admitting that, showing you have class, and then disappearing because you're showing her how to respect you.


anyone else agree?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A monster deserves to be driven off a cliff or cut up into pieces for analysis. Regardless of how much your stbx tore you apart, in their mind they are still a human being who did what they needed to do. They don't go around cussing themselves out or wishing they could put a bullet in their own heads. They, to them, are just a person who did what they needed to do (after the PEAs distorted their thinking). Doesn't make them a monster. No matter what you want to believe.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

says the monster advocate.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lol

Nice try


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I think they are something worse than monsters.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I think they are something worse than monsters.


Labeling in general is not a good.

This isn't indifference.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I not going to say a word. pretend i never got it. It in my opinion is a way to try to soften me up before D.
> 
> To me it says..thanks for inspiring me to live for today without thought of any consequences or anyone but myself. really a disguised eff u.
> 
> ...


At most, I would acknowledge receipt of the letter but NOT actually thank her for it.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Saw stbxw at a school function today...wearing a ring on her left hand ring finger..this is getting comical.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Got this card from stbxw in the mail today. I am having a hard time figuring out what the point is.
> 
> "I want to thank you for challenging me to begin living in this moment. I am working hard to let the pain of the past and the uncertainty of the future go. To live right now and accept my life and those I share it with for what it is at this very moment. My heart is healing and my thoughts of you have returned to those of sweet memories & gratitude for the amazing father that you are. thank you for the immense love and strength you have for our children, tho is by far the greatest gift you could ever give."
> 
> WTF? Not even sure what this means.


My Mom seems to think this is a step in the right direction. does anyone on TAM agree?


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

you didn't like the six opinions you got before so you're asking again?


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## LoveDr (Dec 16, 2012)

Sometimes the best thing to do is to let it go. Sounds to me both of you have issues that you all need to work on before you guys can possibly make yourselves or anyone else happy for that matter.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We already told you what we think. She's a User and she wrote it to maintain her status as the 'good person' so she can continue to Use from you and your mom and anyone else.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> you didn't like the six opinions you got before so you're asking again?


Can you say ..co dependent? Thanks for bringing me back to reality.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

any time. your mom gets paid to be nice to you. here at TAM it's dog eat dog. unless there's Another Man already eating your dog for you.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

is it reasonable to ask stbxw to communicate strictly via text or email unless its an emergency. she is getting upset because I never answer when she calls. says that when I have the kids I should answer. is this too punitive? she sees it as punishment I'm sure. but it is what I prefer.

stbxw, from here on out I would prefer to communicate via text or email unless there is an emergency. if you need to speak to the kids simply text that you would like them to call you. anything else can be communicated via text. if there is a call from your phone I will expect that it is either the kids calling or that it is an emergency. thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Thanks for your input.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> is it reasonable to ask stbxw to communicate strictly via text or email unless its an emergency. she is getting upset because I never answer when she calls. says that when I have the kids I should answer. is this too punitive? she sees it as punishment I'm sure. but it is what I prefer.
> 
> stbxw, from here on out I would prefer to communicate via text or email unless there is an emergency. if you need to speak to the kids simply text that you would like them to call you. anything else can be communicated via text. if there is a call from your phone I will expect that it is either the kids calling or that it is an emergency. thanks in advance for your cooperation.
> 
> Thanks for your input.


Can you refresh me on your current visitation schedule with the kids?


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

making your conditions clear establishes your boundaries. nothing wrong there. "punishment" only happens if she gives you power over her, plays the victim. what she does with your terms is her issue not yours.

i would say that unless it's an emergency about the kids that you would prefer that she only reach you via email or post.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> making your conditions clear establishes your boundaries. nothing wrong there. "punishment" only happens if she gives you power over her, plays the victim. what she does with your terms is her issue not yours.
> 
> i would say that unless it's an emergency about the kids that you would prefer that she only reach you via email or post.


It also depends on how long the kids are at each parents house.

If there are visitation days scheduled etc.

Example.

1 week rotations going from Sunday - Sunday.

Visitation day would be lets say, Tue or Wed.

Then a planned call for whatever day could be arranged.

Other than that, no 'surprise' calls are to be made.

When the children are not with the other parent, they should not be hounding the kids.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Agree with Orpheus and Up. 

No surprise calls and they should be about talking to the kids ONLY. 

Anything else, arrangements, etc should be communicated via email or text.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> is it reasonable to ask stbxw to communicate strictly via text or email unless its an emergency. she is getting upset because I never answer when she calls. says that when I have the kids I should answer. is this too punitive? she sees it as punishment I'm sure. but it is what I prefer.


Who cares what she sees it as? Why do you owe her anything? Why do you care if she is upset? 

SHE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND ANY MORE.

Do what YOU want for YOUR life. If she refuses to cooperate, that is on HER and the judge will not appreciate her keeping the kids from you just because you won't talk to her on the phone.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Can you refresh me on your current visitation schedule with the kids?


Week on week off...sunday to sunday..My son does call and ask to stay with me on "her" weeks. I am always happy to accommodate if I can. I don't seem to find the need to call her on my weeks and on her weeks, when I want to tall to the kids I text her and ask that they call me..pretty simple.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Week on week off...sunday to sunday..My son does call and ask to stay with me on "her" weeks. I am always happy to accommodate if I can. I don't seem to find the need to call her on my weeks and on her weeks, when I want to tall to the kids I text her and ask that they call me..pretty simple.


Do you guys have a mid week visitation scheduled?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> making your conditions clear establishes your boundaries. nothing wrong there. "punishment" only happens if she gives you power over her, plays the victim. what she does with your terms is her issue not yours.
> 
> i would say that unless it's an emergency about the kids that you would prefer that she only reach you via email or post.


She's been sitting firmly in the victim chair for 13 years.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's her problem.

You don't have to play along. THAT is on YOU.

Stop doing it.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

2Lx2, it really doesn't matter what the terms of your ongoing communication are. what is important is that you set them and dictate what is acceptable for YOU.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

turnera said:


> That's her problem.
> 
> You don't have to play along. THAT is on YOU.
> 
> Stop doing it.





Orpheus said:


> 2Lx2, it really doesn't matter what the terms of your ongoing communication are. what is important is that you set them and dictate what is acceptable for YOU.


I agree with both of you in regards to the terms to communication.

What I am still waiting to hear about is the current co-parenting schedule if it's 50 / 50 1 week rotations.

This is also about the kids.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Isn't that what he said? One week on, one week off.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

turnera said:


> Isn't that what he said? One week on, one week off.


It typically includes 1 evening visitation for the "off week" parent.

If not, then phone calls.

It also depends on the age of the kids as well for how much contact is recommended


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> It typically includes 1 evening visitation for the "off week" parent.
> 
> If not, then phone calls.
> 
> It also depends on the age of the kids as well for how much contact is recommended


No visitation during the week. She wants me to answer whenever she calls if I have the kids. She calls and says." I don't have time to text it all" But usually like today it is just are you dropping the kids or am I picking them up? how hard t=is that to text? My point is if she wants to talk to the kids she can call my D's phone or text asking me to have them call her. Otherwise just text what you need. Does that seem like too much to ask? I don't seem to have a problem when its her week doing it that way. But I do want to be fair in what I am asking for..thanks for the insight.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> No visitation during the week. She wants me to answer whenever she calls if I have the kids. She calls and says." I don't have time to text it all" But usually like today it is just are you dropping the kids or am I picking them up? how hard t=is that to text? My point is if she wants to talk to the kids she can call my D's phone or text asking me to have them call her. Otherwise just text what you need. Does that seem like too much to ask? I don't seem to have a problem when its her week doing it that way. But I do want to be fair in what I am asking for..thanks for the insight.


How old are your kids?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

kids are 5,10 and 12.I usually talk to them a few times a week on my off week, but I text to ask them to call.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> How old are your kids?


She's not pissed cuz she can't talk to them she's pissed cuz Im not answering every time she calls...she never leaves a message and never texts after saying..have the kids call me etc. think she is just chapped because I am ignoring her.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> She's not pissed cuz she can't talk to them she's pissed cuz Im not answering every time she calls...she never leaves a message and never texts after saying..have the kids call me etc. think she is just chapped because I am ignoring her.


It doesn't matter why or what she's mad at.

What matters is establishing your boundaries.

Setting them.

Then forgetting it, given they are being respected.

When they aren't, re-establish the boundary and enforce.

Adding a mid week visitation is typically suggested from everything I have looked into.

Not from a legal stand point but from the children's.

Reducing phone contact and more face to face helps them keep a solid relationship with the other parent while they aren't with them.

Example, the other parent takes all 3 kids out for dinner on a Wednesday evening after school / daycare (she would pick them up) and drops them off no later than 7pm.

Daily phone calls, or random phone calls when not scheduled aren't really that beneficial and can become more of a 'hounding' type feeling.

Not to discredit the surprise call simply to say hello or the likes, but that will obviously create problems between parents if it's not mutually agreed on (like in your situation) and happens a lot.

Now, the situation at hand.

If you do not wish to speak to the other parent, that is obviously within your right.

Which is why *scheduled* phone calls are for the better.

Setting up for example, a Tuesday 7:30pm phone call will allow you to know when she calls and hand the phone to your children instead of answering.

It is what the ex and I do.

Sometimes I will answer, others I will not and there is no argument after the fact.

Nothing to argue about.

Without a structured co-parenting schedule that has set boundaries, expectations and for the lack for a better word, 'rules' you will continue to run into these types of problems.

Separating your children / parenting from your divorce / post marriage relationship will greatly reduce the stress in your life.

Once you have established the co-parenting routine the rest can fall into place.

Non children related issues are to be done by e-mail only.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

We have week on/week off, too, with one night at the 'off' parent on the weekend. We call our son every night at bedtime. He's 10 and doesn't have his own phone. His dad has his own ringtone, so when I have a call from him around bedtime, I have DS answer it. STBXH does the same with me. We don't even talk. It's been a routine for about a year and a half. Neither of us want to go without speaking to our son everyday, so we're both cool with that. 

We both see our son almost everyday, too. The 'off' parent sees him right after school for 1-1 1/2 hours. We trade off who picks up/drops off with the other parent. We've both managed to stay very involved in his life and keep the parent/child connection, and it's been better for him than going for chunks of time with little or no contact. 

In fact, this is one of the few things we've been able to do (mostly) painlessly.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Separating your children / parenting from your divorce / post marriage relationship will greatly reduce the stress in your life.



:iagree:


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Just spent 3 hours with the stbxw at a school function for my D's.

Was cool,dispassionate, indifferent but couldn't help lamenting the fact that she is so willing to throw our family away. being around all of the families there was hard. new babies etc. Didn't want it to be this way. We had something beautiful once and with a little..ok a lot of work could have had something beautiful..well maybe not and this is all for the best but sure was hard. Felt unnatural.

Eff me I miss being a family.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Just spent 3 hours with the stbxw at a school function for my D's.
> 
> Was cool,dispassionate, indifferent but couldn't help lamenting the fact that she is so willing to throw our family away. being around all of the families there was hard. new babies etc. Didn't want it to be this way. We had something beautiful once and with a little..ok a lot of work could have had something beautiful..well maybe not and this is all for the best but sure was hard. Felt unnatural.
> 
> Eff me I miss being a family.


If you feel that way.

Let yourself for a while.

Do not define yourself by it.

Learning to let go of that which you cannot control will free you greatly.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> If you feel that way.
> 
> Let yourself for a while.
> 
> ...


Thanks Up. I am an amazing man, a fantastic father and and all around great guy. Someone will be very lucky to have me someday. Bring the lumber but I have to say it does hurt that she won't see or admit it and instead would rather have the pos she is with.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks Up. I am an amazing man, a fantastic father and and all around great guy. Someone will be very lucky to have me someday. Bring the lumber but I have to say it does hurt that she won't see or admit it and instead would rather have the pos she is with.


Was tempted to pat her on the ass as i left the place..


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Just found out that posOM doesn't even have an effing job. Wow..not sure if I fell better or worse.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Just found out that posOM doesn't even have an effing job. Wow..not sure if I fell better or worse.


She and him are not your concern anymore. 

Don't allow her to control your emotions in anyway. 

The fact that he does not have a job is inconsequential to how you're doing. The more you care about things you cannot control like him having a job or her not wanting to be with you, etc, the more you allow your focus and your energy that should be spent on positive things to fix you be given to someone undeserving of that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Just found out that posOM doesn't even have an effing job.


So?

None of your concern.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Just found out that posOM doesn't even have an effing job. Wow..not sure if I fell better or worse.


You should feel indifferent.

You're well aware of this.

Self Regulation.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> You should feel indifferent.
> 
> You're well aware of this.
> 
> Self Regulation.


Email to stbxw

I has come to my attention that posOm is living with you more often than not. Seeing that you now have a two income household, I will be reducing the amount of monetary support I am giving you from $1000 to $500 per month. It will now come in the form of a $500 gift card to Whole Foods. You should seek additional support from posOM.

Please way in.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Email to stbxw
> 
> I has come to my attention that posOm is living with you more often than not. Seeing that you now have a two income household, I will be reducing the amount of monetary support I am giving you from $1000 to $500 per month. It will now come in the form of a $500 gift card to Whole Foods. You should seek additional support from posOM.
> 
> Please way in.


Are you currently paying through a legal agreement?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Are you currently paying through a legal agreement?


no.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Curious: Why a gift card for Whole Foods? CS goes towards more than just food.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> Curious: Why a gift card for Whole Foods? CS goes towards more than just food.


was just a thought to make sure the money goes toward something for my kids. posOm has no job and I am not ok with continuing to fund their lifestyle. she just showed up in another pair of $200 boots the other day. If he is going to live there then he can get a job and she can start working full time. I am not an atm that they can draw from to continue their life of irresponsibility. Im paying for him to eat drink and bang my wife and he gets to freeload. she can start getting some money from him. I'm just not ok with it.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Gotcha. I've never heard of that being allowed as part of a legal settlement, though, so you may not get a choice at that point. 

Personally, I'd be pissed if STBXH did that to me. I'd think it was exercising more control than he should have --i.e., not just telling me what I could use it for, but where I had to shop. But then, I'm not banging a posOM nor do I wear $200 boots.  Not saying you shouldn't try it -- just saying to be prepared for a fight.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Why are you giving her $1000 a month without legal obligation?

When does this go to court and get settled?


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

I see both sides really. It is always a fine line to walk. I like the gift card for food cause then I would know what the money was going to. Not sure how the courts would see it I would ask your lawyer..


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> I see both sides really. It is always a fine line to walk. I like the gift card for food cause then I would know what the money was going to. Not sure how the courts would see it I would ask your lawyer..


The courts would say he has absolutely no right to dictate where she spends her money.

As long as the kids aren't in moral of physical danger.

Even that is hard to prove without proof of addictions, physical or mental abuse.

This all spawns from his emotional response to her being with someone else.

The courts don't care about how she makes him feel.

Or the other way around for that matter.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> Gotcha. I've never heard of that being allowed as part of a legal settlement, though, so you may not get a choice at that point.
> 
> Personally, I'd be pissed if STBXH did that to me. I'd think it was exercising more control than he should have --i.e., not just telling me what I could use it for, but where I had to shop. But then, I'm not banging a posOM nor do I wear $200 boots.  Not saying you shouldn't try it -- just saying to be prepared for a fight.


Its the 3rd pair in the last 5 months! She has no concept of money because she has never had support herself. she works 24 hrs a week for lords sake. I have been waaay too generous. I see your point about the control thing and may back off of that. but do you think I am being unreasonable to reduce it? I am just not ok with the fact that they get to play house and I am to one footing the bill. if he is living there he can contribute. 

it is going to be a fight no doubt. there will be plenty of attempts at guilt tripping me or saying that i am being controlling, that the only thing I have over her is money and that is why I am doing it. in truth it isn't the control i just think it is bs that he gets to live there scott free play daddy and husband with none of the responsibility, and i am the one paying for it. she works minimally and acts like she has all the $ in the world. time for a reality check don't you think?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Its the 3rd pair in the last 5 months! She has no concept of money because she has never had support herself. she works 24 hrs a week for lords sake. I have been waaay too generous. I see your point about the control thing and may back off of that. but do you think I am being unreasonable to reduce it? I am just not ok with the fact that they get to play house and I am to one footing the bill. if he is living there he can contribute.
> 
> it is going to be a fight no doubt. there will be plenty of attempts at guilt tripping me or saying that i am being controlling, that the only thing I have over her is money and that is why I am doing it. in truth it isn't the control i just think it is bs that he gets to live there scott free play daddy and husband with none of the responsibility, and i am the one paying for it. she works minimally and acts like she has all the $ in the world. *time for a reality check don't you think?*


You cannot control that.

How did you come to that amount?

The $1000.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Up is right -- in the eyes of the court, as long as the kids have what they need, they don't care who pays for what. What they will (or at least should do) is look at whether or not she is capable of working and taking care of herself. They will base child support on maintaining the kids close to a lifestyle they've been used to. Take a look online - some states have their child support calculators online and you can just plug in your numbers and get an idea of what court-ordered support would be.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> Up is right -- in the eyes of the court, as long as the kids have what they need, they don't care who pays for what. What they will (or at least should do) is look at whether or not she is capable of working and taking care of herself. They will base child support on maintaining the kids close to a lifestyle they've been used to. Take a look online - some states have their child support calculators online and you can just plug in your numbers and get an idea of what court-ordered support would be.


That is where I got the 1k number from..the Oregon child support calc. I had been giving her $1500 up until a few months ago. backed it down to 1k once i spoke to my atty and looked at the calc. Now that she has a live in posOm she shouldn't need as much. Does that make sense or am I thinking of this wrong? Especially since there is no court order or spousal support agreement. My atty says we would go for 500 cs and 500 alimony Most CS/alimony agreements have a contingency for when one of the parties have a live in that the alimony stops. that is where i am coming up with the numbers. again..do you think I am being unreasonable?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Why are you giving her $1000 a month without legal obligation?
> 
> When does this go to court and get settled?


Cause Im a nice guy. Neither of us have filed. My thought is that I reduce to $500 a month and if she doesn't like it..get an atty.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> That is where I got the 1k number from..the Oregon child support calc. I had been giving her $1500 up until a few months ago. backed it down to 1k once i spoke to my atty and looked at the calc. Now that she has a live in posOm she shouldn't need as much. Does that make sense or am I thinking of this wrong? Especially since there is no court order or spousal support agreement. My atty says we would go for 500 cs and 500 alimony Most CS/alimony agreements have a contingency for when one of the parties have a live in that the alimony stops. that is where i am coming up with the numbers. again..*do you think I am being unreasonable*?


I think your judgement is being guided with your emotions.

Not logic.

If you spoke to your attorney about this once before and had the payment amount reduced.

Do it again.

Speak to your attorney about this.

Giving her a 'Gift Card' does not cover wardrobe and shelter costs.

It also may not look good on your behalf when this does go to court.

How do you give her the money? In what form?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Cause Im a nice guy. Neither of us have filed. My thought is that I reduce to $500 a month and if she doesn't like it..get an atty.


Why haven't you filed?

She's clearly moved on.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> I think your judgement is being guided with your emotions.
> 
> Not logic.
> 
> ...


That is fine..I am willing to forget the gift card thing..bad idea. I transfer the money from my bank acct to hers. All trackable. I don't disagree that I am pissed that this pos is playing house with my family. However I don't think it is reasonable for this guy to stay there rent free, eat the food i help provide, stay in the shelter i help provide, with no financial responsibility. If she wants him to live there..fine.. but Im not ok with paying for it.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Why haven't you filed?
> 
> She's clearly moved on.


trying to get myself to a space where i won't care. can't afford to go any deeper down the rabbit hole..although this is getting me much closer. plus she is the one who wanted the D. In the words of Conrad..she wants the D..she files and pays for it.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> That is fine..I am willing to forget the gift card thing..bad idea. I transfer the money from my bank acct to hers. All trackable. I don't disagree that I am pissed that this pos is playing house with my family. However I don't think it is reasonable for this guy to stay there rent free, eat the food i help provide, stay in the shelter i help provide, with no financial responsibility. If she wants him to live there..fine.. but Im not ok with paying for it.


Which is why you should talk to your attorney.



Too Little Too Late? said:


> trying to get myself to a space where i won't care. can't afford to go any deeper down the rabbit hole..although this is getting me much closer. plus she is the one who wanted the D. In the words of Conrad..she wants the D..she files and pays for it.


My ex wanted the D.

I filed.

She wasn't going to.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Same here. And me doing it was the only way I felt I could get things that I wanted. He was perfectly happy to jjust start dating. Heck, if you saw my thread today, they have officially moved in together. We are not divorced yet. I don't have money lying around for retainers, but I considered it an investment in my future.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Which is why you should talk to your attorney.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input Up. i put a call into my atty this afternoon.

Now with regard to contact. she can't seem to get it thru her head that i don't want to speak with her about bs she could text or email about. I think it is a control thing, she can't stand that I don't want to,but i just don't want to talk to her..its not good for me. hence the idea below.

I don't know how to make it any clearer about what my needs are with regard to our communication, so I will say it again, from this point forward I would like to communicate exclusively via text and or email with exception to an emergency. If you call and it is not an emergency I will promptly hang up. We are not friends, friendship is based on trust, respect and admiration, none of which I have for you. Whatever friendship we may have had is dead, and I would like to communicate accordingly. We are now simply co parents. I do understand and appreciate that you are the mother of my children and will treat you as such.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> Same here. And me doing it was the only way I felt I could get things that I wanted. He was perfectly happy to jjust start dating. Heck, if you saw my thread today, they have officially moved in together. We are not divorced yet. I don't have money lying around for retainers, but I considered it an investment in my future.


sorry angel, we all deserve so much better and will have just that one day.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I know -- I was just saying that even in this situation, which is one we don't want to be in (spouses walking out and wanting divorces), sometimes we still have to initiate that process to get some of our own power back over our lives.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Thanks for your input Up. i put a call into my atty this afternoon.
> 
> Now with regard to contact. she can't seem to get it thru her head that i don't want to speak with her about bs she could text or email about. I think it is a control thing, she can't stand that I don't want to,but i just don't want to talk to her..its not good for me. hence the idea below.
> 
> *I don't know how to make it any clearer about what my needs are with regard to our communication, so I will say it again, from this point forward I would like to communicate exclusively via text and or email with exception to an emergency. If you call and it is not an emergency I will promptly hang up. We are not friends, friendship is based on trust, respect and admiration, none of which I have for you. Whatever friendship we may have had is dead, and I would like to communicate accordingly. We are now simply co parents. I do understand and appreciate that you are the mother of my children and will treat you as such.*


"When it comes to co-parenting we may only communicate through text or email. Phone calls are for emergencies only when it is related to our children. I am not okay with any other form of communication with you."


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You have no legal obligation to give her anything at this point. Therefore, giving her a card to Whole Foods can be seen as helping her and the kids. However, since you previously paid more, the judge may think otherwise.

How do the house bills get paid currently?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

UpnOver said:


> "When it comes to co-parenting we may only communicate through text or email. Phone calls are for emergencies only when it is related to our children. I am not okay with any other form of communication with you."


 And then, once you have said this, the INSTANT she goes onto to another topic, YOU HANG UP.

That is how you get it across to her. You're still asking her to do what you want.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

turnera said:


> You have no legal obligation to give her anything at this point. Therefore, giving her a card to Whole Foods can be seen as helping her and the kids. However, since you previously paid more, the judge may think otherwise.
> 
> How do the house bills get paid currently?


It would look much better when it goes to court if he gives her something.

Better for him that it's traceable (which it is).

Providing a 'strict' form of support for the children isn't seen well.

At least, from all the attorneys I've spoken to.

Food, Wardrobe, Shelter.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

turnera said:


> And then, once you have said this, the INSTANT she goes onto to another topic, YOU HANG UP.
> 
> That is how you get it across to her. You're still asking her to do what you want.


:iagree:


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> You have no legal obligation to give her anything at this point. Therefore, giving her a card to Whole Foods can be seen as helping her and the kids. However, since you previously paid more, the judge may think otherwise.
> 
> How do the house bills get paid currently?


Eff if I know. I transfer the 1k every month then she transfers to another acct. then pays her bills I guess. Ill talk to my atty before I pull the trigger. Thanks very much for all the input guys. I preciatecha.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> "When it comes to co-parenting we may only communicate through text or email. Phone calls are for emergencies only when it is related to our children. I am not okay with any other form of communication with you."


If there is a phone call I will know it is either an emergency or one of the children calling to speak to me.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> If there is a phone call I will know it is either an emergency or one of the children calling to speak to me.


Adding in all that other drama (which it is) to what you proposed to say will serve no good.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Adding in all that other drama (which it is) to what you proposed to say will serve no good.


Coolio..thanks man. have a great night. Im gonna go watch a bball game.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

TLTL-Remember how I approached that topic of dropping the cash flow several days ago? Stick to it. Who cares what she thinks. And on the phone calls....have her call the kids #. It's all about boundaries. Or if they do not have a phone....let the oldest answer or if you have to, ultra business and hang up. And remember what I told you will happen to her and the POSOM....just sit back and watch it unfold.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Just dropped the kids off to stbxw. Had a great couple of days up on the mountain..it was snowing like crazy. Missed the crap out of her tho..it was the type of experience that would have been great as a family..swimming and hot tubbing in the snow. Broke down a couple of times..couldnt help it.

Having a hard time knowing they will now be playing "family" with posOm. 

All signs point to this guy sticking. Does me no good to think about I know but doesn't lessen the pain.

How tf do people just move on like this..like nothing has happened, her life is so wonderful and cheery now that she has a new husband/father. Good for her I guess.

I effing hate it.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Showed up to drop kids Sunday in another $400 pair of boots. Life is good it seems.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Showed up to drop kids Sunday in another $400 pair of boots. Life is good it seems.


Has to be not your problem. Just give her what you have to, no more, and make sure your kids get taken care of.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Maybe is is trying to fill a void with the fancy boots


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> Maybe is is trying to fill a void with the fancy boots


No question..4th pair in 4 months. Money was one of the reasons for our problems...cant stop spending. Maybe not as happy as she seems.

Not my problem anymore. Working on giving her less to spend. Talking to my atty tomorrow.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

It must be nice to have unlimited funds to spend on boots....
I wish I did


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

LTLT

You know assuming this or that about your ex does you no good.

You recognize it.

That's good.

Keep at it on that.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> No question..4th pair in 4 months. Money was one of the reasons for our problems...cant stop spending. Maybe not as happy as she seems.
> 
> Not my problem anymore. Working on giving her less to spend. Talking to my atty tomorrow.


perhaps dude lacks in the sack...has to make it up in other ways...been known to happen...


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> No question..4th pair in 4 months. Money was one of the reasons for our problems...cant stop spending. Maybe not as happy as she seems.
> 
> Not my problem anymore. Working on giving her less to spend. Talking to my atty tomorrow.


Money was a problem because she lacked the self control to stop spending what you guys didn't have?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Money was a problem because she lacked the self control to stop spending what you guys didn't have?


Has never been able to control her spending. Owns up to having a problem then goes out and does it again. Has gotten worse since D announcement. now 4 pairs of 200+ boots and a $1500 dollar camera.. spent it when we had it, spends it when she cries "broke". Nice to be able to spend 25% of your monthly income on one pair of shoes.

Again doesn't matter just more crazy. The view from 50K is interesting.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Has never been able to control her spending. Owns up to having a problem then goes out and does it again. Has gotten worse since D announcement. now 4 pairs of 200+ boots and a $1500 dollar camera.. spent it when we had it, spends it when she cries "broke". Nice to be able to spend 25% of your monthly income on one pair of shoes.
> 
> Again doesn't matter just more crazy. The view from 50K is interesting.


Must be great not to have to deal with that anymore.

No longer your problem can be quite the feeling on the wallet.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Must be great not to have to deal with that anymore.
> 
> No longer your problem can be quite the feeling on the wallet.


Agreed.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Question:

Is it possible that this is all normal and that it is truly "too little too late?" Is this just the way things go and I am just another "betrayed" husband that can't let go.? I guess I am asking if her behavior is justified and I just need to get over it? Do I have a reason to feel betrayed or am I just feeling sorry for myself?

Thanks..


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I have also been the victim of a wife's crazy spending. 

It's normal to feel betrayed.

She's gone.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Question:
> 
> Is it possible that this is all normal and that it is truly "too little too late?" Is this just the way things go and I am just another "betrayed" husband that can't let go.? I guess I am asking if her behavior is justified and I just need to get over it? Do I have a reason to feel betrayed or am I just feeling sorry for myself?


I don't understand what you're asking.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Question:
> 
> Is it possible that this is all normal and that it is truly "too little too late?" Is this just the way things go and I am just another "betrayed" husband that can't let go.? I guess I am asking if her behavior is justified and I just need to get over it? Do I have a reason to feel betrayed or am I just feeling sorry for myself?
> 
> Thanks..


Really sorry but yes.

You have been separated nearly three years now. She is pursuing divorce and has found someone else.

She is spending money in a way she always has, and in a way you always disagreed with. It is not evidence of a crisis or vacillation in her heart. It is evidence that she will do what she wants. It is no longer your business.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Spoke to my atty and he said I have no legal obligation to give her anything. That in reality she has not put herself in a very good negotiating position. I want to be sure I am thinking about this correctly. I will admit I am hurt by the fact that she has integrated posOm into my kids lives so quickly and in my mind inappropriately. He stays at the house with stbxw and the kids 4-5 nights a week and therefore I assume stays when they are not. I have even been told that my d5 crawls into bed with them at night. If posOM wants to play husband and daddy I feel like it is reasonable for stbxw to get support from him as well. I don't want to be supporting their lifestyle any more than is necessary. Now I could be a nice guy and continue giving the 1k, but that doesn't seem reasonable or prudent. Here is the revised email. Opinions please this feels like a huge decision for me as things have been NC and therefore pretty calm. This will definitely stir the pot. Worth setting the boundary?

I has come to my attention that posOm is living with you more often than not. Seeing that you now have a two income household, I will be reducing the amount of monetary support I am giving you from $1000 to $500 per month. You should seek additional support from posOM.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Stop telling her why you are doing things and what she should be doing.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Stop telling her why you are doing things and what she should be doing.


I am not ok with supporting you while you are living with another man. I am reducing the amount of support from 1k to $500.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Realize also that this will come back on me thru my kids as well. Any advice as to how to explain this to them? She will say that they will have to move because "dad" refuses to give us the amount of money he has agreed to.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> I am not ok with supporting you while you are living with another man. I am reducing the amount of support from 1k to $500.


"I am not okay supporting a household which contains two employable residents who are in a relationship. The support will be reduced from $1,000 to $500 effective immediately."

As for your children.

How old are they again?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> "I am not okay supporting a household which contains two employable residents who are in a relationship. The support will be reduced from $1,000 to $500 effective immediately."
> 
> As for your children.
> 
> How old are they again?


12,10, and 5. she has already brought up the fact that they may need to move because dad isn't giving mom as much money as he used to. they love the house because there are a ton of kids there. sons best friend, d12's best friend..etc. moving would devastate them. and would be made to be my fault.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Do what you need to do.

She will tell your kids whatever she wants.

Nothing you can do about that.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Do what you need to do.
> 
> She will tell your kids whatever she wants.
> 
> Nothing you can do about that.


Do you think it is what I need to do? wwuao do?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

I'd cut the payment down.

Then make sure everything is in line through your lawyer to take this to court.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> 12,10, and 5. she has already brought up the fact that they may need to move because dad isn't giving mom as much money as he used to. they love the house because there are a ton of kids there. sons best friend, d12's best friend..etc. moving would devastate them. and would be made to be my fault.


 Then tell your kids the truth.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

turnera said:


> Then tell your kids the truth.


And what would 'the truth' be?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That your mom has broken my heart by choosing another man and as much as I want you keep you kids in the lap of luxury on my dime, by her choosing to have another man living with you guys while we're still married, I feel it's wrong for me to pay your mom money to let another man live with you guys.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

I know if a POSOM is living with the ex in my state, spousal support goes bye-bye. Consult attorney ASAP


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

So I am going to back off of sending the email. Spoke to my IC and we agreed that it would be much cleaner if it is all handled thru the courts. That way it is legal and not me wielding some imaginary power over her. Plus it will make my life less hectic for the next month. I will file D next week and let my atty handle it. So it goes.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

TLTL, that sounds like a good plan, allowing everything to hit the fan at the same time -- when in court. Does this mean, however, that you will be forking out a much higher payment over the next month? If so, are you figuring that this additional expense is worth the avoided fireworks during that time?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

turnera said:


> That your mom has broken my heart by choosing another man and as much as I want you keep you kids in the lap of luxury on my dime, by her choosing to have another man living with you guys while we're still married, I feel it's wrong for me to pay your mom money to let another man live with you guys.


ISN'T THAT PARENTAL ALINEATION? 

TLTL, 

Figure out how much of your income she's entitled to. Go to the state website. In NY is 17% for 1 child. Don't give her any more $. If you make a pattern of this the court can look at it as you are able to cover the extra $. 

It's tough if the kids will need to move. But that's a consequence of divorce bro.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Been pretty quiet lately. Nothing to report..until I got this this am after last nights exchange.

"It kills me that you can't even look at me...is there anything I can do to right what I've done wrong?"

WTF?

Don't think she can even comprehend that she has done anything wrong.

No reply. Speechless.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Wow!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you find you must answer her at some point, just say 'this is just one of the consequences of your actions.' And walk away.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Been pretty quiet lately. Nothing to report..until I got this this am after last nights exchange.
> 
> "It kills me that you can't even look at me...is there anything I can do to right what I've done wrong?"
> 
> ...


Delusional words from a delusional wayward wife.

Wants you to relieve her of her guilt.

She made her bed. Now she sleeps in it.

Don't engage.

Carry on with your silence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Couldn't have said it any better. This is her deluding herself into thinking she has any remorse when she has zero. Ignore her ass!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

And if you have the children.........do not answer a call or text. When they are with you.....that is your time. You are not a CSR for Chase Bank.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> And if you have the children.........do not answer a call or text. When they are with you.....that is your time. You are not a CSR for Chase Bank.


how about....pull your head out of your ass...get rid of posom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She is like a rebellious teenager. If you tell her not to smoke.....she will smoke. If you say do not drink, she will drink. Try this -hey i hope you and posom live happily ever after- then let her do the opposite.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree! The best way to get her to act right is to agree with her.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> I agree! The best way to get her to act right is to agree with her.


Agree with what?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> how about....pull your head out of your ass...get rid of posom.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is she saying she wants to get back together? Or is the marriage over in her eyes but she wants to be friendly with you?

If there is any doubt about this in your mind I would ask her.

If she wants to get back together, your response is appropriate. Perhaps not so if she just wants to be friends.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Is she saying she wants to get back together? Or is the marriage over in her eyes but she wants to be friendly with you?
> 
> If there is any doubt about this in your mind I would ask her.
> 
> If she wants to get back together, your response is appropriate. Perhaps not so if she just wants to be friends.


Don't really care at this point. I have no time for someone who can't realize any wrong doing in the the case of our marriage or the last 6 months. Its not my job to try to figure out what she wants. she can do that herself. Seems as if she would like to rugsweep it all and be "friends" to relieve her of any guilt. Neither she nor posOm have any respect for me. If they did, she would have filed right out of the gate. I am not ok with someone running in and sleeping with my stb while we are still married. Not to mention integrating posOm into my kids lives..there is no excuse for it, and if she can't see that I want nothing to do with her..boo hoo..you don't like me anymore. If the shoe was on the other foot I can guarantee she wouldn't like the fit..


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Don't really care at this point. I have no time for someone who can't realize any wrong doing in the the case of our marriage or the last 6 months. Its not my job to try to figure out what she wants. she can do that herself. Seems as if she would like to rugsweep it all and be "friends" to relieve her of any guilt. Neither she nor posOm have any respect for me. If they did, she would have filed right out of the gate. I am not ok with someone running in and sleeping with my stb while we are still married. Not to mention integrating posOm into my kids lives..there is no excuse for it, and if she can't see that I want nothing to do with her..boo hoo..you don't like me anymore. If the shoe was on the other foot I can guarantee she wouldn't like the fit..


You know my belief is that in her mind you are divorced. I know that is not what you want, but you have to create a civil relationship for the kids.

Perpetuating a scenario where she wants to act as an amicably divorced couple and you want to act like someone still married whose wife is having an affair, is not going to help your kids. Or you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Agree with what?


I'm unhappy with you.
I agree, you seem to be unhappy.
I should go screw the mailman.
I agree, you should do it.
What? But...but you're an *******.
You're right. I must be an ******* if you're that unhappy. When are you filing?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Wazza said:


> You know my belief is that in her mind you are divorced. I know that is not what you want, but you have to create a civil relationship for the kids.
> 
> Perpetuating a scenario where she wants to act as an amicably divorced couple and you want to act like someone still married whose wife is having an affair, is not going to help your kids. Or you.


she can't expect that we would be friends after this. 

she put that she wanted to get laid on a public website, lied about posom for months, ignored my boundaries about the kids and posom, used me for money under the premise of trying to find her way back to me and our family and was with posom. is now playing family with posOm and my kids. 

if she had come to me as a mature adult and said listen..weve been doing this dance for 13 yrs. MC didn't workI can't do it anymore. I want to respect you and the kids..I am filing for divorce. I am going to date now. Then all bets are off. She can do whatever she wants..in this scenario I do feel betrayed. You are saying I shouldn't?

we do communicate amicably..very much so. It is just short and to the point. we are co parents plain and simple. I have not said an ill word about her or posom to her or to the kids and won't. I am dealing with this my way, she is dealing with it hers. I don't have to look at her, it is not a punishment it is protecting myself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

They all expect that, tltl. All cheaters expect you to just get over it, accept it, and still be there for them.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> They all expect that, tltl. All cheaters expect you to just get over it, accept it, and still be there for them.


Cake eating at best psychotic at worst...Hey Im going to go out and bang whoever I want, intro them to the kids play house etc. Why aren't you ok with this?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

My focus is out of whack. Time to recenter. Just wish she would leave me the eff alone.. This is what she wanted, now deal with it.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She can jerk your pri*k through the kids..............and she knows it. Consider the advice I gave you awhile back


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Sorry it is so rough for you.

I agree that you need to refocus, and in your shoes I would minimise contact as well.

I would also tell her honestly what I am doing and why.

"I am not happy at the way our relationship ended. I am sorry you want to be friends, but right now I can't. I don't know whether it will be possible in the future."


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Interesting development given the timing and the nature of yesterdays text. Saw stbxw at my d5's school..she is teaching a class there. D5 asks if posOM's dog is going to be there when she gets back. Stbxw says no...were all taking a break. D5 says..the dog?..stbxw looks to see if I am within earshot and says...no...all of us. Staying dark..plan b in not in the mix.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Her break up has no concern to you. Her reaction will be to get a reaction out of you. You are not seeking an R from what you have told me, so there is no real need in saying "I'm sorry your long and lasting love failed to last". NC.....NC.......NC........unless she flies up to your 8th story window.....NC


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No contact


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

See above................live it................


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