# Decision to Make



## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

I have been holding evidence that my husband is having an affair under the advice of my marriage counselor who I've been seeing individually. She thinks I should continue to hold the evidence and just say that I have evidence the marriage is in trouble but not give away any specifics. I don't see my husband falling for that without wanting to know what exactly the problem is. My husband does not know that I know about the affair yet.

I am almost certain that my husband is lying about going a business trip in a couple of days and is planning on meeting the OW. I can't meet with the counselor before he leaves for his "trip", but I can't see letting my husband just run off on this rendezvous either. So do I confront him anyway and blow the lid off things? Or stick with the advice of my counselor? What could be her reasoning for my holding the evidence? Anyone else been through this?


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

you need a new counselor ASAP.

she is recommending enabling him. for what reason? has she specified?

what i mean is- where is this going?


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

She has said that it will cause him to be more confrontational and fight going to counseling with me if I want to work things out or he will fight harder for things he normally wouldn't if I decide to go through with a divorce.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How solid is your evidence? What do you have?

I agree that that you need a new counselor. You are getting very bad advice.

If it's solid evidence then you should definately confront him.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you are getting bad advice. If you have proof, you should confront him and not let him go off to spend a weekend with his OW.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

darkwolf said:


> She has said that it will cause him to be more confrontational and fight going to counseling with me if I want to work things out or he will fight harder for things he normally wouldn't if I decide to go through with a divorce.


This is moronic reasoning.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

*dw*, does this counselor have experience with infidelity issues? if not, you really need find to one that does. 

this the worst advice a counselor can give you. 


how long do you suspect this has been going on?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

darkwolf said:


> She has said that it will cause him to be more confrontational and fight going to counseling with me if I want to work things out or he will fight harder for things he normally wouldn't if I decide to go through with a divorce.


If you want to fix your marriage, the first thing that has to happen is that the affair ends. As long as you do nothing, the affair continues. Even if he went to couseling, he would only be playing games with you because his attention will be on the OW (other woman). As long as he's half way out of the marriage he's not going to work to fix the marriage.

Confronting him about the affair will not make the divorce more contentious either. The divorce will be what it will be.

It's better in both cases to have the truth in front of you and for him to know that you will not put up with the affair.

Is the OW married?


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

What evidence do you have? 

More info is needed here for the collective to assess your situation.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

So sorry, guys. H came in room, lurking.

Evidence on hand-photo taken of her on his phone while he was supposed to be somewhere else, phone bill showing text messaging between them everyday (sometimes for hours) since day photo was taken on his phone about 2 weeks ago

She is married


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Yes, I also snooped and only texts to/from her have been deleted from his phone though the phone bill shows they have definitely been communicating. All of his other texts to other people are still on his phone. Suspicious, no?


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

darkwolf said:


> Yes, I also snooped and only texts to/from her have been deleted from his phone though the phone bill shows they have definitely been communicating. All of his other texts to other people are still on his phone. Suspicious, no?


Yes, very suspicious.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Is that clear enough evidence to confront him? Or just suspicion stage?


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

darkwolf said:


> Is that clear enough evidence to confront him? Or just suspicion stage?


Personally, I don't think it's enough. However, you still have time before he goes away 'on business.' Today I would be on a mission to get and install a voice activated recorder and put it in his car. I think this affair is already physical so him going away, well it's just going to be more of what he's already done.

If you know the venue he is going to, any chance you can follow him? Have you thought about putting some spy software on his phone?


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

I think a Voice Activated Recorder is your next move and best bet. You definately have reason for persuing this (sorry to say) and should now compile solid evidence of wrongdoing - the deleted texts will just involve a boring gaslighting session that will leave you exhausted and frustrated with little solid evidence to back you up -you have no "proof" that the deteted texts were anything insidious and that is what he WILL use to tire you out.
Get a VAR (about £30) velcro under the car seat and let the truth unfold.
Also get a new councelor, yours is more worried that he stops you from giving her any more money!


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Can't follow - have to watch small son. Thought of hiring PI. He almost always has phone on him, so I would not have time to install spyware. The one time I got to snoop was a rare occasion. It is all texting-voice recorder will do nothing.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

I have noticed that all texts have been while I am away from house. I caught him one time trying to hide that he was texting someone - sure enough bill shows it was her


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

The voice recorder is for when he goes away. It is possible that he has met up with her before, the VAR will record any conversations.
If you can afford a PI though, then go for it!


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Thought about showing him bill & asking if it's so innocent, show me the txts. Of course, he can't because he's hiding them.


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

If you can't follow him then a PI might be your best bet. I understand that you can't access the phone but he may have another 'secret' phone so I think the recorder is still a must. Also, put a keylogger on the computer. Do you know who this woman is? What do you know about her?


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

darkwolf said:


> I have noticed that all texts have been while I am away from house. I caught him one time trying to hide that he was texting someone - sure enough bill shows it was her


In that case, a recorder in the house is a good idea. He could be using a 'secret' phone for voice calls. It would be really unusual for communication to be by text alone. Does he use Facebook? Other social media?


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

He knows her & her husband through mutual friends, so they see each other in circles at least twice a week. I doubt there is anything other than texting. That is his main way he communicates with everyone-friends, family, business. Why risk getting caught texting if he has a secret phone to make calls? Wouldn't he just text from secret phone too? 

He uses FB, but nothing is there. 

Just to clue you in on the amount of texts between them, I would say it went from 1 text/week which was not unusual between this group of friends, to the texts between the the two becoming by far the large majority of the phone bill, literally overnight dating back to the photo.

That was also around the time he started going to hang out with the group exclusively by himself. He stopped having me go with him. Overheard him telling a friend not to say he was going to hang out where she would be because I get overly jealous of the attention she gives him. Hmm, wonder why?


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

darkwolf said:


> Thought about showing him bill & asking if it's so innocent, show me the txts. Of course, he can't because he's hiding them.


Please don't do this as it will only alert him that you are watching him and it won't stop it, just drive him to be more sneaky.


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

darkwolf said:


> He knows her & her husband through mutual friends, so they see each other in circles at least twice a week. I doubt there is anything other than texting. That is his main way he communicates with everyone-friends, family, business. Why risk getting caught texting if he has a secret phone to make calls? Wouldn't he just text from secret phone too?
> 
> He uses FB, but nothing is there.
> 
> Just to clue you in on the amount of texts between them, I would say it went from 1 text/week which was not unusual between this group of friends, to the texts between the the two becoming by far the large majority of the phone bill, literally overnight dating back to the photo.


Understood. What makes you think she will be joining him on this business trip? Do you know her husband?


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

I know her husband-super nice guy. 

Regarding trip, he seems sketchy about details and he didn't mention it until after he had been texting her yesterday. I don't think he's actually going out of town, just finding a way to meet up with her.


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

Note to Darkwolf: you go out with him on his social evenings!

Also, you dont have enough SOLID evidence to confront. Hire PI if the funds are availible for you to share the weekend with your hubby and potentially this OW.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Can't always get a babysitter to go out with him. Of course, he "has" to go because some in the group are business associates.


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

darkwolf said:


> I know her husband-super nice guy.
> 
> Regarding trip, he seems sketchy about details and he didn't mention it until after he had been texting her yesterday. I don't think he's actually going out of town, just finding a way to meet up with her.


If you can afford it, have a PI follow him. You can't rely on him being truthful about where he says he is going so any PI will have to tail him from when he leaves home. 

Depending on the husband, is there any way to compare notes with him on what his going on? If he doesn't know already, he should at least know about the texts. Maybe at this stage he doesn't know or he may know more than you do. If you are going to contact the husband, do it today. Impress on him the need for being super stealthy and not letting on about your suspicions.


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

taking notes on your husband is not going to hold up well with a man who has no accountability.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

That has been a thought - let her husband gather the evidence, but since I don't know him as well as my husband (they consider each other friends-ha!) I don't know how well that conversation will be received. From what I've witnessed, he worships the ground she walks on and may dismiss it all together as me being a crazy person like my husband is trying to make me sound to his other friend.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Heck, for all I know, they may have an open marriage, he knows about them & doesn't care.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I disagree. Don't go to the husband just yet. You can impress on him all you like about stealth, but if he cannot do stealth and HAS to confront, then it will be out. Only use this route if you are confronting imminently. 

I also agree, the counsellor must go. Bad advice. You don't confront issues in the marriage without confronting the issues! As for witholding evidence, as you rightly said, if you reveal your evidence before it is rock solid, he then knows how to avoid your detection and how to continue more secretively. 

I think you have enough evidence to say there is definitely an Affair, but not enough to confront. He will explain it all away and you will be left with nothing but him hiding it all better.

There is a way to retrieve deleted texts. So if you are ready to confront, this would have to be the way to do it. If you cannot get his phone secretively and recover them, then you can always demand the phone. He will refuse though. His refusal to show will be an outright admission of an affair....but would this be enough evidence for you? Because his refusal will go hand in hand with accusations at you, invading his privacy, controlling him, you are a jealous freak, and all that nasty stuff. Gaslighting. Making out that he is fine and you are the crazy one. So, it depends how much evidence you need really. Does it need to be rock solid? 

In my experience on here, and for myself, it needs to be rock solid. But also, it is a very bad idea to let him go this weekend alone or without you. This weekend will do horrendous things for your relationship and any wish you have to reconcile with him. If he goes you may find you don't even want the marriage anymore. You need to get the evidence this week as best you can.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

How to retrieve deleted texts? Remember I rarely have access to his phone.

How do I keep him from going if I have to stay & watch my son? The babysitter is unavailable.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

I won't outright ask for his phone. Afraid this too will drive it further underground.

I will know immediately from the PI if he is headed out of town, then he is telling the truth. If he stays in town, he's going to see her.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

So this may possibly be the reason the counselor said to hold the evidence? Perhaps she is thinking more rock solid evidence needs to be found before confronting him?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

What kind of phone does he have? You would need to back it up I think. And then download a programme to read the data. I think there is also another way which would mean purchasing a sim card reader. I will try and find the info on other threads. But do need to know which phone he uses.

As for this weekend, I don't know. It depends how you are going to play it. Confronting him, telling him if he goes your marriage is over, asking him to prove that his business associates are going. And if none of the above, and you do allow him to go, hire the PI. The weekend will certainly give you the irrefutable evidence if indeed it is not a business trip. But then how will you feel about the marriage when you discover he has shacked up with her for the weekend? Is there any way you could find out who is going? Or could you make enquiries or get a trusted friend to make enquiries to find out if she has plans to go away this weekend also? 

I don't know how you would feel/what evidence you are happy with to confront. But I do know what a horrible time this is and I feel bad for you that you are having this to go through. Made so much worse with the fact there are children involved.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

darkwolf said:


> So this may possibly be the reason the counselor said to hold the evidence? Perhaps she is thinking more rock solid evidence needs to be found before confronting him?


Yes, that is what I thought. Though without knowing exactly what she said and for what reasons, it is difficult to know for sure. I guess you will know better regarding her wording etc


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

smart phone - [email protected] : thanks for any info you can give

I plan to play it cool about this weekend. He's been very affectionate lately. Don't want to ruin the "good vibes" & arouse suspicion that I know anything yet. 

What I feel about finding proof is it will definitely tell me if I need to bring him into counseling or go visit a lawyer.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

I have met the people he says he is going with a couple of times, but definitely don't know them well enough to give them a call & ask about the weekend's plans.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Try this page for info on text retrieval. I hope the link works.
talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/67661-become-spy-catching-them-technology-4.html#post1456711

The other thing is to install spyware on his phone. Let me know if you do this though, there are a few things you would need to know so as not to be discovered. Some spyware is very good, and you can get all texts sent, pictures, gps etc.

Do you have his gmail password? and does he have lookout mobile security downloaded on his phone, or any other app that has a 'find my phone' feature? You would need to change the email it is registered to though otherwise he will receive the emails that say 'we have found your phone'.


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## darkwolf (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks so much for the info. I will look into it.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

P.s. if there is a find my phone feature, the gps is not always accurate. In fact occasionally it can be far from accurate. But it seems to be much better than it used to be. It is a good tool so long as you bear this in mind. Generally it is accurate though, which is why it is useful.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Please, please forget about your counselor's advice. It is bad advice literally in any case.

Please follow the advice here to retrieve texts. If you can afford a PI, hire one now and get him/her on the job this weekend.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Why don't you tell him you and your son are coming with him this weekend and see what he says?

Sounds like a PI might be your best bet here. You do need more evidence before you confront - he will lie about it with what you have right now.

The reason your counselor gave for not confronting is bullsh!t. You might make him mad?! wtf. I also suggest finding another counselor who is experienced with infidelity.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

this smells more of inappropriateness than affairage.

the thing is, it's heading toward cheating, especially if you believe they are going to "meet up."


i say you confront him with the extent of texts to this woman before it becomes physical.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

darkwolf said:


> How to retrieve deleted texts? Remember I rarely have access to his phone.
> 
> How do I keep him from going if I have to stay & watch my son? The babysitter is unavailable.


What kind of phone is it? Iphone's back up to the computer he sync's it with. This where I found all of my WW's texts to the OM. Her's was an iphone though.


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