# .



## loblawbobblog

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## Andy1001

What makes you think she hasn’t been cheating all along. 
You already found a photo of one of her exes in her sock drawer.


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## re16

Sorry this happened to you.

Seems like your reconciliation was on false pretenses... you were duped into many more years of supporting her, a decision I'm sure you would not have made had you known the truth.

I would make sure you copy the evidence, and then ask her about if there were others (prior to letting her know that you've seen the journal).

If she is still lying to you 22 years later, I think all you would need to do is say that you know that she is lying and then file for divorce.

It will be hard to recover from that.


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## Casual Observer

Do a quick Google search on

dr Minwalla secret sexual basement

It’s all there. Go through it, see if it resonates with you, and then determine what route you wish to go. There IS an avenue for healing and reconciliation but it requires a lot of work on her part. If she can accept rather than deflect the harm she’s done to you, not just then but every day since, there’s a chance.


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## loblawbobblog

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## Evinrude58

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.


All this and now she’s got a picture of her and her ex in the sock drawer.

She’s had an affair, and then for a period of time screwed everything that walks apparently.

my opinion:
You are never going to be happy with yourself knowing what you do, and knowing you did zero about it.
Here’s the thing: She just keeps dishong out pain to you.
I’d end this marriage. It’s not like there’s not a disloyal cheater around every corner that you can replace her with….

After all this and you’re finding crap in her sick drawer and she doesn’t even care enough to remove it? Geez. I’d happily divorce her like you should’ve done years ago. At what point will you ever reach the “enough” stage?


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## Lotsofheart73

Does it really matter if it was 1, 3 or 8 ??
I think you need to figure that out for yourself first. I mean what could she possibly say to you about this succession of unfaithfulness that would make things better? And why would you believe it since she lied and did all this while you guys were “working” on things?? You need to keep working with your therapist and figure out what you want going forward. Whatever your wife does or says when you confront her (if you chose to do that) does not matter. Do what is best for you going forward. 
Besides working with therapist, think about - what you would say to one of your children if they found themselves in your shoes in the future. Surely you would not want them to just accept poor treatment just because it happened “a long time ago”.


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## Diana7

I would ask her if there were any other men at that time and give her the chance to come clean. If she lies about it that's not good. If she tells the truth you may be able to work through it with some good MC.
One troubling thing is that she could easily have given you an STD back then.
Not sure it matters how many though, whether 5 or 15 it was just as bad.


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## Sfort

If she's been a good wife for the last seven years, let it go. What's to be accomplished by blowing up your family? Just tell yourself that you married a cheater. While that wasn't your choice, things have leveled out. Maybe she's different now. She just can never be on the pedestal you want to place her. Sometimes life just sucks. 

If you find out she's CURRENTLY cheating, ignore what I just wrote.


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## loblawbobblog

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## Lotsofheart73

IMO, the time to come clean has come and gone long time ago. When the affair occurred and they went through all that counseling … that was it. No more time to come clean. Went through all those hard times getting over the affair and all the counseling and meanwhile she was having her fun on the side. NO, JUSt NO. 
But obviously I’m not the OP.


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## Sfort

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes, this is what my therapist said too. I can choose to put this to bed and live in the present or end the marriage, either way the details don't matter.


Much of what you're experiencing is similar to the emotions attached to retroactive jealousy except that yours is real jealousy. There is actual betrayal in your case. I bring it up because RJ sufferers think they want to know every minute detail, and in trying to get those details, they hurt if not destroy their relationship with their spouse. I can absolutely understand why you might want to know all of the details. I'm not sure knowing them is a good idea. The answer depends on the individual, I guess. I would, however, aggressively pursue an investigation as to whether she's still cheating.


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## Lotsofheart73

Question you have to figure out yourself is CAN you put it to bed? But also, why would you want to? Sounds as if your children are grown. Yes, divorcing would still make older teens, young adults sad and having separate holidays no fun. But, are things really that great if she did this to you and now you’ll forever have to wonder if it is or will happen again??


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## *Deidre*

I feel truly bad for you, OP. You’re sort of lost in this relationship, filled with hope and grateful for the crumbs she’s thrown your way these past five or so years. I would leave if this all were happening to me. I think people can make mistakes but your wife had and still has zero respect for you.

It’s your life but if it were mine, at this stage, I would be done. Agree with Evinrude - all she does is hurt you, and you spend your time tormented over it. I just think you’ve been in this environment so long, you just can’t imagine there are relationships out there that are thriving in honesty and mutual respect. 

So many sad stories on here, today. 😞


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## Lotsofheart73

Have to say I’m having a hard time seeing this post today. Read about 99% of the photo in the sock drawer thread and couldn’t believe over 400 posts about that and thought the posts were getting way out of hand. And now this … sorry to hear what you’re going through.


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## Casual Observer

loblawbobblog said:


> Her journal entry charted her sexual history. She wrote about being faithful since that year.


If she had been faithful to you, in terms of honesty and integrity, she would have written about how badly she mistreated you AND a painful entry for when she disclosed all to you. But that’s not there, is it?


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## Red Sonja

You need to DNA test your children.


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## Casual Observer

Minwalla Model







www.minwallamodel.com





This is what it’s all about. It involves real live trauma, PTSD, and it’s going to get worse and worse for OP before it gets better. She’s been in a self-protective survival mode that shields her from understanding the damage she’s done AFTER the affairs. I would suggest to @loblawbobblog that he read through this carefully, and then go over it with his wife. Without benefit of a therapist, the odds aren’t great for the survival of the marriage. Even with a therapist, it’s tough going because most want to lay blame all around and can’t see the forest for the trees.


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## loblawbobblog

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## Megaforce

I could not stomach it. Would piss me off indefinitely.


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## Beach123

She’s not the wife you thought she was - not who you hoped she could be.
There was NO reconciliation.
What do you plan to do about it? I hope you aren’t eating another $hit sandwich!


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## Asterix

@Lotsofheart73, you gotta understand one thing. She not only cheated on you multiple times, she chose to lie to your face every single day since then by choosing not to come clean about it. That is a duplicitous behavior. She didn't care about your physical well being (possible STD/STI occurrences) and most definitely didn't care of your psychological well being and the hurt it would have to your self esteem. This may be a stretch but, she may even be the kind of person who gets sick and perverted pleasure out of walking around you knowing that she pulled a fast one on you and you are none the wiser.

You also have to realize that she never told you about her affairs by her own self. You had to find out about her affairs the hard way and then needed to confront about them. With all that behavior and her behavior in the in-between 22 years, how can you trust her at this point?

What makes you think that, if you ask her the question about any other affairs without divulging your source(s), she'd come clean and tell you all about her infidelities?

My guess (maybe a poor one) is that the reason why she went to the charade of false reconciliation because she did not want to give up the lifestyle that she is afforded while being married and her single lifestyle could be significantly worse?


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## Parallax857

Red Sonja said:


> You need to DNA test your children.


That's the last thing I'd do if I were in the OP's shoes. What good could possibly come out of that? He's the man whose supported and been there every day for the children. If he's not dad, who is? Why would anyone want to threaten that? For the children or for him. If the wife made the claim in court and I were his attorney (I'm a divorce attorney), with my client's consent I'd object on the grounds of relevance. It's way too late for her to make that claim. If she tried to offer DNA evidence, I'd request that it not be admitted. If the judge disagreed, I'd ask for a stay to take the issue up on appeal. That's how important I consider this issue.

If someone told me one of my children wasn't mine, even if it were technically (biologically) true, my response would be some polite version of "**** you!". "Who are you to challenge the legitimacy of my children or my relationship to them?"

That out of the way, speaking now to the OP, I feel super bad for you. What a totally terrible thing to find out. Particularly when you worked through so much to stay in the marriage. Now it's making sense why she doesn't want to talk about anything (as you mentioned in the other thread) and said that wasn't the man she married. She probably doesn't want to discuss feelings or be placed in a position of being asked questions that require her to either be authentic or of having to lie again. She's been incredibly dishonest and, in my view, that's not right. Every day of your marriage, she robbed you of your right to know this information and to make an informed choice as to whether you want to stay in the marriage.

Now that you know, I think it makes sense to, first, decide if you could (under some set of circumstances) stay. If not, leave. If you could stay, then insist on therapy. If she's not willing, I'd leave. If she is willing, I'd ask if she had other affairs and, as others have suggested, see if she comes clean. If she lies about it now, I'd leave. If she admits it, you can then consider whether you could get past it. But as long as she continues to lie, you can never trust her. And a marriage without trust is not one that I'd want for myself. No matter how comfortable or good in other ways. That, for me, would be a deal breaker.

Of course, YMMV. I may not understand it but that's not relevant. It's your life so you get to make your choices. However this shakes out, my heart goes out to you brother.


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## SunCMars

Evinrude58 said:


> After all this and _you’re finding crap in her *sick *drawer _and she doesn’t even care enough to remove it? Geez. I’d happily divorce her like you should’ve done years ago. At what point will you ever reach the “enough” stage?


Her sick drawer?

Yep, that name fits.


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## A18S37K14H18

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes, this is what my therapist said too. I can choose to put this to bed and live in the present or end the marriage, either way the details don't matter.


OP,

Can you though? Can you choose to put this to bed and live in the present? I'm just honestly asking. I guess some people could and others couldn't, but that doesn't matter to you as it ONLY matters whether you can or can't, not whether others could or couldn't.

There isn't a wrong answer OP as it's your life.

As for me, I'm firmly in the "can't" group and if I were in your shoes, I'd be divorcing her, but that's just me.

I'm fully aware this is your life and your choice and I support you in whatever you choose.

To me, this isn't in her past even though it was decades ago and per her journal she's been faithful since then.

She's not been faithful in her heart and it puts this pic of her ex-bf in the sock drawer in a whole new light and it's not a good one obviously.

To me, you've been her plan B.

I can't tell you how badly I feel for you. I'm also very angry at your wife regarding this, so angry with her.


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## TexasMom1216

Frankly, I think you've done your time with this woman. She has lied to you about who she was for decades. The kids are grown, the parenting job is for the most part complete. I don't think you owe her another second of your life.


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## sokillme

Just divorce her man, your kid is grown. Your wife sucks. You can do better.

If you stay with her you can expect the quality of your life to measure up to the quality that your wife's character has been. Who ever gave you advice to stay already had you living with a serial cheater for years, one you didn't know about and who hides pictures in her sock drawer, if it's your counselor you should fire them.

Save yourself the money and just dump her, your life will get better.


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## Captain Obvious

Cut her loose now for your own sanity and well being. You're never going to be content and at ease with this woman. You deserve peace of mind, you'll never get it with her. She put the pic in her sock drawer bc she wanted to and she enjoyed it.


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## Parallax857

I'm also in the camp of those who say they couldn't personally stay in a relationship like yours. Even if my wife never cheated again. The fact that she never came clean about it would be something that I could not accept. I'd feel that she robbed me of my choice in the matter and I wouldn't forgive that.

I completely agree with the notion that you don't owe this woman another minute of your life. You only owe it to your children to be there for them no matter what. And to not place them in the middle of a war. To, whatever you're feeling, handle it with discretion so they don't wind up in the middle of a war zone. For their sake, find a way to be cordial with this woman and to try to ultimately, when you're ready, have compassion for her. That may sound hard but, if you stand back from it, who would do something like this? One would have to be a disturbed person. For that, one can have compassion. You'll have every opportunity to create a real marriage for yourself with a worthwhile partner (when you're ready, some time from now). I doubt she ever will. She'll go on living in a bubble of her own creation with no ability for true intimacy. So perhaps one day you'll feel sorry for her. Even though what she did to you was despicable.


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## Landofblue

What did your wife write about you and her feelings about you in that journal, especially about your relationship since her cheating and the last 7 years? That met help craft a vision of what your future with her may be like. 

In the end you are going to have to decide if you want a marriage built on lies or truths.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.


Sir, you need to let her go. There is not much depth to your posts in my humble opinion to get a decent grasp of your situation. This combined with the ol photo in the sock drawer? Hmmm. The leads me to deduce she has been banging other guys behind your back the whole time.

please Consider reading Grow A Pair by Larry Winget. You need to move away from her and get some confidence.


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## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and *I don't know what to do*. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow.* We reconciled under false pretenses.*
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.


Very sorry to hear all of this, but honestly not a bit surprised. I figured your anxiety and MLC were likely cause by your wife. So now the cause of your anxiety and crises becomes obvious. Very glad you are being treated by a professional for these.

You have been living with a liar for 22 years since 2000. In fact you don't really know how many men she has been with or when she was with them. You know of at leat four in 2000. Do you think she just stopped? You said things were good the last seven years. Wonder what changed. Did she just get really good about covering her tracks to have her cake and eat it too? Or did menopause calm down her libido?

Recall the other thread with people telling you were making a mountain of molehill with the picture of her bad boy ex. Wonder if they would think so now. 

I don't know *how* at this late point in your life you decide what to do about this. But don't see any way that your 'marriage' can ever be repaired after what you have described. You 'reconciled' under false pretenses, and she continued to live as she wanted to. While you were working on the marriage, she was working some other dudes. She was intentionally lying to you while you were doing your best to salvage a marriage. In your shoes, I would be wondering which of the kids were mine. 

Thankfully she is getting a job and the kids are soon out of the house so your financial exposure is dropping. My vote would be to *secretly* retain an attorney and begin steps to exit this travesty. Ask the attorney how to expedite minimum financial impact on yourself, what steps to take and when to take them. Would imagine telling her what you found out won't help anything. Better to get things sorted out for yourself and file when time is right for you. You don't even need to ever let her know why. She can likely guess.


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## re16

If you ask about this and she lies... she is lying to you in the present... so she lied in the past and the present... just like saying I don't know how a picture ended up in my drawer... seriously, she has been lying to you for decades.


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## jlg07

loblawbobblog said:


> Her journal entry charted her sexual history. She wrote about being faithful since that year.


She may have written that in the journal because she knows YOU read it.....


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## Imnobodynew

Casual Observer said:


> Do a quick Google search on
> 
> dr Minwalla secret sexual basement
> 
> It’s all there. Go through it, see if it resonates with you, and then determine what route you wish to go. There IS an avenue for healing and reconciliation but it requires a lot of work on her part. If she can accept rather than deflect the harm she’s done to you, not just then but every day since, there’s a chance.


Hey op. I noticed you skipped over this nugget of wisdom. It's a 30 page pdf on cheating, shame, guilt, trauma. It amazing how much he packs in there and how enlightening it is. I'm both a BS/WS and I've learned at on 8 years in R and I've reaped so much from it. Might want to read over and take it to your IC. It will give some good insight about your wife.

Edited: Here is the link Resource Library


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## Tested_by_stress

If you don't confront, it will consume you from within. Why should you be the one suffering for what *SHE *did? I'd be serving her papers so fast, it would make her head spin! She robbed you of all your agency a long time ago.


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## loblawbobblog

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## Casual Observer

Landofblue said:


> What did your wife write about you and her feelings about you in that journal, especially about your relationship since her cheating and the last 7 years? That met help craft a vision of what your future with her may be like.
> 
> In the end you are going to have to decide if you want a marriage built on lies or truths.


But with her diaries, he can now believe he truly does know “the truth” about what physically happened. That’s a bit different than most. Unfortunately, she k it’s what he knows. If those diary revelations had been kept quiet from her, he would have had more options in terms of discerning how she truly feels today.


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## loblawbobblog

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## Zedd

jlg07 said:


> She may have written that in the journal because she knows YOU read it.....


The cynical side of me thought the same.


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## loblawbobblog

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## loblawbobblog

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## 86857

This particular post really got to me. 
OP this is what I’d feel. 
-Having ONS while you guys were in therapy would do it for me. I’d never not be angry—very angry—bout that & would feel like a fool (even though I wouldn’t have been)

-With reconciliation all I’ve ever read on here is that 100% disclosure is abs necessary & it can’t ever be successful w/o it. In a way you’re living proof, as I was l. 

-I’d never again feel secure with the person knowing they were capable of the 2 things above. 

-re the kids, they’re grown & have their own lives. This is about you… & your life ahead, it goes by pretty quickly. Don’t waste it being miserable whatever decision you make. 

-If a friend was that disrespectful I doubt you’d keep them as a friend - I wldn. 

-leaving is never easy, humans don’t like change. There’s the financials & a bunch of other things to deal with. 

-divorce can work & does & people move on…after all 50% of marriages end end divorce. 

-you might stay & put it past you as she’s been on good behaviour ever since (tho when did you find the photo in the drawer? if recently that would make me think she was getting ‘restless’ again.)

-a lot of strength needed to leave and probably even more to stay… 

-don’t forget you’re still young, these days people are much healthier so you could have 30 more years ahead of you. How do you want to live it? in the marriage or out of it with the opportunity to meet someone you feel secure with… a toughie I know…
Sorry you’re going through it. Put yourself first.


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## Imnobodynew

loblawbobblog said:


> I read it, it's helpful. I feel I understand the psychology behind it all, but it doesn't help me to decide what to do


Where on page 30 do you feel your wife falls all these years? Remember this new info means the affair has never ended for you. Finding the picture means she still has some attachment to this guy.

I think understanding who your wife is will ultimately affect your reaction to the situation. If you feel by her lies and deception that over the years the possibility of covert infidelity has happened, after you gave her a chance, that may in itself be a deal-breaker for you. I agree with the other poster here. You need to address and discover who your wife is. As other posters have alluded you are not sure who she is. After this discovery, you either make peace she has changed and moved on and is willing to be humble with you or You must move on to be at peace. Keep it simple.


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## loblawbobblog

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## TexasMom1216

loblawbobblog said:


> You nailed everything I'm thinking and feeling. With regards to financials, she'd get half my retirement. We'd be comfortable in retirement together, but with half I'd need to keep working much longer. Goddammit. I wouldn't begrudge her that, she's been a good stay at home mom the past 17 years, but it just sucks.


Except that you’ve been supporting her while she’s been lying to you. She’s not been a good wife in any regard. That she never contributed makes it worse, IMO. It solidifies the extent to which she was using you. She cheated, she shouldn’t get to do that to you then take half your lifetime earnings. That’s so wrong. 😞


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## SRCSRC

Well, I can't imagine you never bringing this up with your WW. It will utterly consume you. What to do is ultimately up to you. I would make her sit for a polygraph for starters after she gives you a timeline of all her affairs and ONS. If she refuses, I would file for divorce. If that doesn't get her attention, continue with the divorce process until it is final. Once you have as much of the truth as possible, you can then make up your mind about what to do. You owe her NOTHING. Do what is best for you. Go see a lawyer in order to assess your rights and liabilities if you divorce. 

I find it extremely disrespectful that she still keeps a copy of her AP and herself in her sock drawer. That, in itself, would put me over the edge. Also, why would she journal all this stuff and not hide it where you can't find it? Did she want you to find the picture and the journal subconsciously? Very strange.

Next time she goes to the market, take out the AP picture and tape it to a place where she will immediately see it with an attached note to see you pronto. You should be holding the journal with a demand for an explanation about the ONSs. Maybe a little too dramatic and sure to cause a complete conflagration but she deserves no mercy.


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## Casual Observer

loblawbobblog said:


> I read it, it's helpful. I feel I understand the psychology behind it all, but it doesn't help me to decide what to do


It wouldn’t help you decide if your wife read it and had a major epiphany, an honest total breakdown over how she’s traumatized you through her continuing lies and omissions? If she reads that and takes it to heart, wants to save the marriage, she’ll understand how outrageously tough it will be FOR HER, that the work will never end, things can never be the same. That just means different though; overall, better. But ALL of her control will be gone.

On the other hand, if she reads it and says, it’s not really that bad, that exaggerates things… you can tell her she has just one chance to come around on that. It’s not your job to convince her. She has to be convinced herself.

And you’ll have nothing to do with MC that requires you to accept responsibility. This is 100% on her.


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## re16

You really need to know if you wife is currently lying about all this.... I would just bring it up with her... like tonight.

My hunch is that she will deny this when you bring it up.... and when you tell her about the journal, she will even go so far as to say something along the lines of she wrote the journal stuff as a test to see if you were reading them and it was all made up......


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## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> she's been a good stay at home mom the past 17 years, but it just sucks.


Are you sure you know she has been a “good” SAHM? How do you know what she gas been up to anytime? You dont know what you dont know.


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## Imnobodynew

re16 said:


> You really need to know if you wife is currently lying about all this.... I would just bring it up with her... like tonight.
> 
> My hunch is that she will deny this when you bring it up.... and when you tell her about the journal, she will even go so far as to say something along the lines of she wrote the journal stuff as a test to see if you were reading them and it was all made up......


And that's what it all comes down to. IMO.
Knowing who you are married to might be a deal-breaker for you. This trigger may be a deal-breaker for you. You have to decide on a boundary you find acceptable, and live with it for the rest of your life. But I think the choice is still based on who your wife really is...


----------



## re16

Imnobodynew said:


> And that's what it all comes down to. IMO.
> Knowing who you are married to might be a deal-breaker for you. This trigger may be a deal-breaker for you. You have to decide on a boundary you find acceptable, and live with it for the rest of your life. But I think the choice is still based on who your wife really is...


And if you realize that she is still a liar and always has been.... What will you do?


----------



## Rus47

Imnobodynew said:


> And that's what it all comes down to. IMO.
> Knowing who you are married to might be a deal-breaker for you. This trigger may be a deal-breaker for you. You have to decide on a boundary you find acceptable, and live with it for the rest of your life. But I think the choice is still based on who your wife really is...


How can he ever know who his wife really is? She has been lying 22 years.


----------



## Rob_1

loblawbobblog said:


> . I don't want to blow up my family,


Well if you don't want that, then continue accepting being a reluctant cuckolded dude that never had the balls to dump his cheating woman. That's it, no other alternative. Carry on.
It's unbelievable cowardly to have found out about the ONS and still you don't have the balls to confront her. How pathetic.


----------



## red oak

I’m see from your sock drawer post you’re not seeing any difference in behavior. 
During MC before were you separated that she was able to have multiple one night stands?

what kind of program requires writing down sexual life? Is it something that’s helping work through emotional issues as part of therapy?
Was there any sign of remorse in the tone of the writing?
Was it matter of fact type etc should e taken into consideration. 
Personally I think that’s needed to give proper advice.


----------



## 86857

loblawbobblog said:


> You nailed everything I'm thinking and feeling. With regards to financials, she'd get half my retirement. We'd be comfortable in retirement together, but with half I'd need to keep working much longer. Goddammit. I wouldn't begrudge her that, she's been a good stay at home mom the past 17 years, but it just sucks.


Gee, having to work a lot longer is tough. 
I must say you are very generous-spirited about the financials. 
If you divorce will she have to work? 
Still I’d be happier to work longer if that was the price I had to pay for getting away from someone who had treated me like that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Casual Observer

re16 said:


> You really need to know if you wife is currently lying about all this.... I would just bring it up with her... like tonight.
> 
> My hunch is that she will deny this when you bring it up.... and when you tell her about the journal, she will even go so far as to say something along the lines of she wrote the journal stuff as a test to see if you were reading them and it was all made up......


My wife claimed everything in her journal was the product of a teenager's wild imagination. That was way too easy to see through. Similarly, I believe @loblawbobblog can discern between the writings of way-back-when and how she'd write today. There will be tells. 

This is tough. If not for the sock drawer thing, I'd think there was some opportunity for his wife to turn things around, realize that she's been torturing herself, not just him, all these years, keeping those secrets, poisoning her life. But the sock drawer thing kind of brings it back to reality. It says that it's a source of comfort to her, not torture. Just like those having an affair, where they talk about how it took a while to be "talked into it"... which means they were given so many chances to change direction... how many opportunities has she had to cut all contact by burning that picture? Or at least putting it someplace out of sight, out of memory after a while.


----------



## jsmart

Damn man, I hate that this worse than we thought. So let me fully understand, you have not confronted her about the findings of the ONS? According to the diary, she did this only in 2000 but the marriage was not good until about last few years. You said she wanted to leave you when you confronted her, why did she decide to stay? I take it that’s the reason she’s been a SAHM. 

How could you contemplate rug sweeping such a betrayal? she wrote she had a few ONS in succession like it was no big deal. You have no idea how many strange men she allowed to have her, which is disgusting. You have tried to love this woman and have busted your @ss to provide for your family to make it possible for your kids to have the additional stability that comes with having a mom who is home to be repaid by deceit and I’m guessing a very indifferent and cold wife.

I believe your wife might be plotting her exit. As the last child gets ready to leave the nest and she’s about to graduate, it makes sense that she’s mentally checking out and having a pic of her ex to stare at and reminisce is only a symptom of that checking out. I would bet she has been in touch with him. 

You need to put your own plans into effect. It will take time to mentally prepare but prepare you must. That includes getting your finances in order. Speaking to a lawyer to find out exactly what you’re looking at. It may pay to wait for her to finish school and hit the work world or just tell her to get a job, so she can start having an earnings on the books. 

In the mean time you should doing things to boost up your confidence. Having a wife like her has shattered you . Get yourself fit. I’m talking FIT. Also work on your appearance. Hair, beard, clothes, hygiene, etc. liking what you see in the mirror will help your confidence and the workouts will help boost your T levels , which are depleted by age and the stress that an unloving wife provides. Also get connected with other men . It is so important to have male friends. Your wife can be your best friend when she’s got your back but this one does not. Also get started with a hobby or activity that can get you active , out of the house , developing your social circle. 

I don’t know if this marriage can or should be restored. That is up to both of you but it will be an uphill battle. It will probably be way easier to find new love than to restore what your wife has wanted to tare down for the longest.


----------



## *Deidre*

It’s a lot to take in, all that you’ve been burdened with having found this new information. I’m not emotionally invested so I can recommend leaving, but I know leaving a relationship, even ones riddled with betrayal, can be hard. 

My concern for you @loblawbobblog is that you will somehow blame yourself, and stay. If you do stay, do so for the right reasons, not out of fear of the unknown.

Either way, I hope you find peace, whatever you choose.


----------



## A18S37K14H18

OP,

You aren't blowing up your family, she ALREADY DID that, long ago and every day since then too.

Your family life has been a lie all these years.

Also, your children are older. It's not like they are 4 and 6 years old.


----------



## ElOtro

loblawbobblog said:


> Her journal entry charted her sexual history. She wrote about being faithful since that year.


May be it´s an intent to believe herself.
The Ex pic suggests otherwise.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Well this was a gut punch. I read this while I was out and about. I had to give my wife a big hug when I got home, she could tell something was up.

@loblawbobblog This really sucks. You have a real piece of work on your hands. She is a liar with a promiscuous streak. Sleeping with multiple men while you were in counseling, really? She had no respect for you and I don't think that has changed. She just lied to you again about the picture in the drawer. I wouldn't be surprised if she had/has "plans". I don't think I could resist the urge to confront her. IMO you should leave her. I couldn't stay with a woman that has that little respect for me. That picture is just another and very recent look into the level of respect she has for you, which is none. 

I was going to go into what I thought you would need to do if you for some crazy reason wanted to stick it out, but I can't even stomach it to write it down. People like her make me physically sick to my stomach.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

The sad thing is OP has been faithful for about 30 years to this woman that is his only real relationship in his life and she decided to wh0re around while they had a new baby and has lied to him for over 20 years. Now she is reminiscing about a POS abuser with whom she had a baby that she aborted, and lying about that to boot. I say she deserved the POS abuser, he can have her. 

@loblawbobblog Remember that you are the victim in all this and as far as I'm concerned she is an abuser. She has certainly abused your trust and faithfulness.


----------



## jsmart

What info do you have on the affair partner? How long did it last? That she wanted to leave you even though you were the father of her child tells me she was in deep with OM. She most likely started F'ing a bunch of strange men to get over the pain of losing OM. He probably didn't want to step up to be in a relationship with her so she decided to try to make plan B work. 

I agree with @ElOtro that her unloving actions all those years does not jive with a wife who stopped being wayward back in 2000. That pic is a symptom of a current wayward. I think that after so many years of her being cold and indifferent, her warming up a little has you thinking things are good. That small change could have been brought about after she stopped another affair and decided to make the best of plan B.

That you were in therapy while she was out there looking for Mr Goodbar is truly disgusting and would be a deal breaker for me. She would really have to fight for you but everyone posting on this thread knows she’s not going to fight for you. As a matter of fact, I think she will be relieved that she wouldn't have to pull the trigger. 

PREPARE YOUR EXIT.


----------



## balbichi

I think I have seen a similar post in other infidelity forum where the OP rugswept the affair and moved on only to find out lot more down the line. Let these be a reminder for those who chooses to rugsweep instead of just walking out.

As for OP, he needs validation from us. Same OP posted another thread here few days back about finding the pic in sock drawer where he doesnt mention anythnig about wife's affair. Thats thread went on for 20 pages where other kept giving their advice without having the actual info i.e wife had an affair. I find this unacceptable. Nothing personal against OP. But, here everyone is trying to help you. when you choose to deliberately withhold critical info, you dont deserve our help. This is NOT a platform for social experiment.
@loblawbobblog, you are fooling yourself. In the end of the day, you have to decide - stay or go. If you are thinking about sunk cost fallacy, then you just have to put up with it. If you decide to leave, then we might be of help.


----------



## Evinrude58

TexasMom1216 said:


> Except that you’ve been supporting her while she’s been lying to you. She’s not been a good wife in any regard. That she never contributed makes it worse, IMO. It solidifies the extent to which she was using you. She cheated, she shouldn’t get to do that to you then take half your lifetime earnings. That’s so wrong. 😞


Holy smokes!!! I agree!


----------



## Evinrude58

After 30 years, there’s no way I’d leave her after what she’s done. But I’d make her so miserable for the next ones she’d leave me.
What a miserable wretch if a wife she is.


----------



## sokillme

loblawbobblog said:


> This is what I think about 24/7. I know deep down I'll never be ok with it, and I know I would have filed for divorce 22 years ago had I known. I don't regret what happened because our two youngest were born after we "reconciled" which makes it all the more emotionally confusing.


If you leave now you will get over it. It will be about 2 to 3 years (but given where you are it may be a relief much quicker at least the obsession will be over). If you are particular and you start dating someone decent and probably be shocked at how much their presence will be a positive to your life, not a lingering anchor. 

If you stay this will be your life for the rest of your life. It's not getting better. You are married to a liar who isn't committed to you she is still hiding photos. NO ONE has a good marriage under those conditions. 

Whatever you do, tell her you know about all the affairs, don't have to tell her how, tell her yoou have always known, and that you knew every single time she lied to your face.


----------



## Divinely Favored

BigDaddyNY said:


> Well this was a gut punch. I read this while I was out and about. I had to give my wife a big hug when I got home, she could tell something was up.
> 
> @loblawbobblog This really sucks. You have a real piece of work on your hands. She is a liar with a promiscuous streak. Sleeping with multiple men while you were in counseling, really? She had no respect for you and I don't think that has changed. She just lied to you again about the picture in the drawer. I wouldn't be surprised if she had/has "plans". I don't think I could resist the urge to confront her. IMO you should leave her. I couldn't stay with a woman that has that little respect for me. That picture is just another and very recent look into the level of respect she has for you, which is none.
> 
> I was going to go into what I thought you would need to do if you for some crazy reason wanted to stick it out, but I can't even stomach it to write it down. People like her make me physically sick to my stomach.


Really! Soo many times I read something and have to tell my wife I am so grateful for her love and integrity.


----------



## Beach123

I can’t imagine staying when she has made the marriage a farce for more than 20 years.
There is NO foundation for your marriage - so there is no way to repair it. Heck, even when there was a chance she made a mockery out of it and you.
No way would I stay. I left my cheating (multiple cheating instances) ex husband after I was with him 27 years. When I finally realized he had no intention of changing/becoming a noncheater - becoming an honest person who respected me…I divorced him. I’ve not regretted leaving him for one second!
He’s now on his third divorce. He just announced that a few weeks ago.

Some people just aren’t capable of being who they portray themself to be. It’s better to leave than to expect the cab do better - they can’t.


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## DownByTheRiver

How old was she when she did that?


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## BigDaddyNY

DownByTheRiver said:


> How old was she when she did that?


They would have been together 8 years, and married 5 around that time, so mid 20's at least. He was 31.


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## PieceOfSky

@loblawbobblog, 

Why is it you left the past affair, the recently discovered ONSs, and the journals out of your sock drawer thread?

What sort of program is your wife in?

Has she ever been diagnosed with a mental illness? Substance abuse?


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## Parallax857

At this point, there's a clear consensus. Pretty much all of us are at least saying that if we were in your shoes, we'd move on. Of you should do what's right for you. In my view, it would take a masochist or a saint to stay in this marriage. Yes, it's hard to have to split the wealth. But that's ultimately just logistics, just money. If it were me, I'd want my life back. One can retire on almost nothing in a lot of places around the world. Places with large expat American communities. Would take you far from your children and, one day, grandchildren. But it's an option. You don't have to work forever. Even if you did, money would only take things so far for me. To live in an empty marriage, an illusion wiht no real intimacy, would be torture. I'd much rather be alone by myself than alone with someone else.


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## Blondilocks

loblawbobblog said:


> It's been two months and I don't know what to do.


I've only read the first post. See, this information would have been helpful on the other long thread you started. I don't know what you hope to gain by dribbling out the facts. Wasting your own time is one thing - wasting the time of other members is sick.


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## RandomDude

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 *I found out my wife was having an affair*. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. *At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids,* the youngest of which is now 18.


😐



> I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. *We reconciled under false pretenses.*


I'm glad you have realised this at least.

Also this:



Red Sonja said:


> You need to DNA test your children.


----------



## Young at Heart

loblawbobblog said:


> .....in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. ......We spent the year in couple's counseling. .....we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53)
> 
> ........ after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." .........The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> ...... I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, ....... I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details........ but the past 7 years have been really good......... if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.


Dear photo in sock drawer guy. 

Obviously, your marriage counseling sessions really didn't focus a lot on boundaries and red lines to a marriage if during the sessions she was sleeping around. Oh course, they may have cause a real change in her and she might have been totally faithful to you since the end of the marriage counseling.

The problem I see is that the trust she has build over the past 7 years of good marriage and the time since the marriage counseling may have been negated by the one night stands.

Between your mid-life crisis and your new questions about trusting your wife, you may be headed for an "empty nest" divorce. I want to congratulate you for getting some individual counseling. I think that there are three obvious choices. You need to figure out what you want, what you think will give you the best life moving forward and if there is any room in that life for your current wife.

Choice 1. As soon as your youngest child, now 18, graduates from high school, divorce your wife on as friendly a basis as you can and get on with your life. Before then, work on Getting a Life for yourself and improving yourself and your confidence. In short heal yourself so that when the divorce is final, you will be able to have a relationship with a good woman and know how to establish boundaries. However, you said that the past 7 years have been good and you don't want to blow up your family. Your children are yours by DNA testing, and her diary indicates that she has been faithful since the end of counseling.

Choice 2. In the words of Tony Soprano, Forget About It. I really don't like the idea of rug sweeping. At one point near the end of marriage counseling, you knew your wife cheated on you and you accepted her as a spouse that had betrayed you and your marriage. Somehow you saw something in her that allowed you to forgive her (up until you learned more recently). You knew what she was and had done, just not with how many. After all these years does it matter, especially if after reconciliation, she has never again cheated on you? The problem with this is that you may never be able to completely trust her. Of course, if you can't get past the past, you have choice 1.

Choice 3. You could try reconciliation marriage counseling again. I would like to urge you to seriously consider this one. You need to get a much better marriage counselor though than the last one you had. My wife and i did a marriage reconciliation (but it was because of a sex starved marriage and not affairs). A few years after our heavy lifting with a Sex Therapist, we also went to a marriage counselor for a "tune-up" 

The reason that I would recommend a marriage counselor tune-up for your marriage is that you have some mid-life crisis issues, you and your wife will soon be empty nesters and that will make a huge change in how you relate to each other. Finally, you and/or your wife will soon be considering retirement or at least doing serious retirement planning. One of the helpful things that marriage counselors have done for me and my wife have been to have us visualize what we want our marriage to look like in 10, 20 and 30 years in the future and make sure we are still committed to the same goals. You and your wife have a lot of harsh choices ahead of you and getting a little professional help could help each of you right now before the changes come quickly. 

Depending on what is learned in the sessions, you both might agree on choice 1 or divorce. She may be holding it together until the kids leave home before she divorces you and goes out to have sex with others. In fact that might be an explanation of the photo in the sock drawer. Maybe she is planning to divorce you sooner than you think. Working with a marriage counselor about what she wants her life to look like in 10 years might just cause her to open up if he want to be faithful to you or if she is planning on divorce.

Good luck.

P.S. only go with one thread at a time. This really adds to the backstory in the other post.


----------



## Young at Heart

loblawbobblog said:


> We did the 23 and Me thing a few years back for fun, they're all mine.


That is wonderful. One less thing to be concerned about, but that it also indicates that she had some level of "boundaries" not much considering one night stands, but still some.


----------



## Parallax857

I'm baffled by the calls for DNA testing of the children. If the OP were not the biological father of the children, should he turn his back on them? Do all those years acting as their father count for nothing? Is it right to take from the children the only father they have ever known? 

Jeez, people. Parenthood isn't about DNA. It's about love and attachment. The OP is the children's father -- regardless of 23 and Me findings. If they reveal no issue, great. But if they showed otherwise, that would still be something best left alone. Who cares? I'm not advocating forgiving the wife. But the children have done nothing wrong and the OP did nothing wrong, so why should they be made to suffer? 

I find suggestions that the OP should walk out on the children if he's not the bio dad positively primitive.


----------



## sideways

loblawbobblog said:


> You nailed everything I'm thinking and feeling. With regards to financials, she'd get half my retirement. We'd be comfortable in retirement together, but with half I'd need to keep working much longer. Goddammit. I wouldn't begrudge her that, she's been a good stay at home mom the past 17 years, but it just sucks.


How would you be "comfortable" in retirement with a nightmare playing in your head 24/7. Nothing about that sounds "comfortable".

Yeah I get it, you're talking about the financial side of things. Still don't see how you'd be "comfortable" with any of this!!


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Parallax857 said:


> I'm baffled by the calls for DNA testing of the children. If the OP were not the biological father of the children, should he turn his back on them? Do all those years acting as their father count for nothing? Is it right to take from the children the only father they have ever known?
> 
> Jeez, people. Parenthood isn't about DNA. It's about love and attachment. The OP is the children's father -- regardless of 23 and Me findings. If they reveal no issue, great. But if they showed otherwise, that would still be something best left alone. Who cares? I'm not advocating forgiving the wife. But the children have done nothing wrong and the OP did nothing wrong, so why should they be made to suffer?
> 
> I find suggestions that the OP should walk out on the children if he's not the bio dad positively primitive.


Also, he's already said they are confirmed his through 23 & me testing done some time ago.


----------



## Rus47

.


----------



## In Absentia

Rus47 said:


> There is an idea! And a good one. Since she will have a job soon, the more money she makes the lower cost for OP. The thing is though, the story from the other thread sounds like she is preparing her exit, what with the college ( which OP paid for BTW ) and a picture to remind her of what fun she had decades ago running with the wild crowd.. So he may not need to wait long for her to file.


How is it a good idea to make another human being suffer - despite what she's done? Asking for a friend...


----------



## MattMatt

Blondilocks said:


> I've only read the first post. See, this information would have been helpful on the other long thread you started. I don't know what you hope to gain by dribbling out the facts. Wasting your own time is one thing - wasting the time of other members is sick.


Actually, many of us do this. Why? We find it hard to tell other people exactly what our spouse did. So we feed out parts of the story until it's all out there.


----------



## Sfort

MattMatt said:


> Actually, many of us do this. Why? We find it hard to tell other people exactly what our spouse did. So we feed out parts of the story until it's all out there.


Plus, either way, the responses will be to get a divorce, DNA the kids, get a VAR, make her take a polygraph, and...

Ok, just kidding.


----------



## Rus47

In Absentia said:


> How is it a good idea to make another human being suffer - despite what she's done? Asking for a friend...


Its not. You are right and I was wrong. Don’t return evil for evil. My apologies.


----------



## ABHale

And some people wonder why some of us ALWAYS push for divorce when a spouse cheats.


----------



## MattMatt

@loblawbobblog I am a great believer in marital counselling. However, you didn't have proper marital counselling, because your wife withheld a great deal of highly pertinent information from you. 

She continued to cheat on you, so it's like when a patient is told to stop smoking before major surgery and gets a friend to sneak them some cigarettes and a lighter into their oxygen tent and blows themselves to pieces. 










I would suggest a lie detector before you even think about further counselling during which your wife must be 100% honest.

And even then, it's going to be difficult.

And a post nup is a given, I'd think, should you decide to stay with her.


----------



## Lostinthought61

loblawbobblog said:


> You nailed everything I'm thinking and feeling. With regards to financials, she'd get half my retirement. We'd be comfortable in retirement together, but with half I'd need to keep working much longer. Goddammit. I wouldn't begrudge her that, she's been a good stay at home mom the past 17 years, but it just sucks.


Can i suggest that you have sat back (unknowingly) and watched your wife live the out she wanted having an affair and a number of ONS and you, that now that you are 53 and reflecting that if you now divorce she would get half of everything you worked for...and this pisses you off because in a way you would be rewarding bad behavior in a sense.....so might i suggest that you make it clear to her that you no longer care...that you knwo about all these one night stands and that you intend to expose her to the children and that while you will not divorce her you intend on doing everything for yourself now, meaning that you will be the selfish one and do anything and everything you want to do on your bucket list and you have no intention of doing any more therapy and that since she open your marriage by cheating you will keep those options open...what how beresk she will get when she can nto control you, nor control the narrative once you expose her to the family. she will be stuck, she will get angry, she will cry, and you will just look at her and smile. it's time to reward yourself for putting up with a hoe.


----------



## drencrom

loblawbobblog said:


> Her journal entry charted her sexual history. She wrote about being faithful since that year.


Sorry, she gets no points for this. Not only did she have a full blown affair, but went on from that affair to have multiple one night stands....and kept a journal of it!!

So question is, what do you want to do? Can you live with the fact your wife isn't trustworthy? Can you live with the fact she got to go out and screw all these different guys while you stayed the faithful husband?


----------



## jsmart

It always pains me when I read of BHs that feel forced to stay in a marriage with an adulterous wife because the courts will award her cash and prizes. We have had a few threads like that. I think about the guy who’s wife had a decade long PA with the 70 year old handyman that died and the wife kept a picture of him on her desk. 

Some are talking about R but from what OP has slowly doled out, I don’t think she’s even going to want to R once he confronts her about all of those ONS. She ran through a bunch of strange men to get over her failed exit affair with her then boyfriend. She has wanted out for a long time.


----------



## Evinrude58

Do cheaters really keep a journal of their exploits, readily available to their spouse?
I’m a thinkin that cheaters normally don’t put it in black and white. Couldn’t OP use that as evidence of adultery?
Anyway, something is off here. Especially after the bobbysocks thread where this was somehow not part of the original equation, even after repeated questioning in the original thread.

How are you getting to read her diary? It’s just out in the open to tempt you?


----------



## Anastasia6

@loblawbobblog So you've written several things but the real question is what do you want? Second is that it may not matter. 

It certainly meets the criteria of divorce but I don't actually get the idea you want that. Otherwise why would you have kept this info out of the picture discussion.

So was the affair with the ex like everyone is assuming?

I believe your wife may be planning her exit anyway. 

It is good advice to stay married until she has a job so that you won't have as much alimony or have to go back to court.

Again though what is it you want?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

How old was she when she got pregnant for the first time? How long have you been together when she got pregnant for the first time? Were you married when she got pregnant for the first time?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Evinrude58 said:


> Do cheaters really keep a journal of their exploits, readily available to their spouse?
> I’m a thinkin that cheaters normally don’t put it in black and white. Couldn’t OP use that as evidence of adultery?
> Anyway, something is off here. Especially after the bobbysocks thread where this was somehow not part of the original equation, even after repeated questioning in the original thread.
> 
> How are you getting to read her diary? It’s just out in the open to tempt you?


I believe the journal was a part of her therapy. It is a little odd that she wasn't more careful with keeping it secure, but who knows, maybe OP is a safecracker.


----------



## bricks

"Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage?"

Should you? Only you know that. Would it be reasonable? Absolutely.

You have no reason to trust her if she was having one night stands while you were trying to recover from an affair. None. I imagine you are re-living the entire 20 years and wondering if every time she was moody she was having an affair. Perfectly reasonable reaction given the circumstances. You have not one reason to believe anything she has done in the last 20 years is genuine if you know know she was not genuine at the most crucial point in your marriage. In my opinion, this betrayal is worse than if you found out she had an affair last week. You have 20 years to review and wonder if it was all a lie.

I don't see any way to go forward from this. You don't need proof of subsequent affairs. Look deep in your heart, without thinking about "blowing up the family", and decide if you want to live the rest of your life with this level of betrayal. 

Finally, on the topic of "blowing up" your family. You are not doing this, and having been through the teenage years with my own kids with a failing marriage, I can tell you healing can happen when they are young adults. What do you think your family life will be like if you stay?? Where do you think it is after 7 rough years?

My advice is go. Don't make it a fight. Don't engage in nonsense. Make up your mind, and if it is to leave, do it quickly and peacefully. Tell her quietly, hand her your attorney's business card and give her three choices of times she will be out of the house so you can return and gather your things. Have your attorney do all the talking after that, stay in counseling, and try not to dwell.

"I'm sorry to say, but sadly it's true, that bang ups and hang ups can happen to you." - Dr. Seuss


----------



## loblawbobblog

.


----------



## jsmart

I doubt if the affair partner was her ex that she was engaged to and impregnated by. I referred to her old affair partner as her *then* boyfriend. That she wanted to end the marriage, tells us she was in wuv and made at failed monkey branching attempt. The string of ONS was to get over the heartbreak of losing OM.

He does have to decide what he wants to do but what she wants to do also comes into play. My spidey senses tell me she’s plotting her exit.


----------



## Jeffsmith35

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.


How much does a WW need to hate her spouse to conceal a betrayal like this for 20 years without the guilt eating her up inside? Either that, or she's a pure psychopath. Ugh. I'm sorry.


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## Blondilocks

Parallax857 said:


> I find suggestions that the OP should walk out on the children if he's not the bio dad positively primitive.


I haven't seen one member recommend he ditch the kids if they aren't his. There are medical reasons for children to know their biological parents. Besides, every one deserves to know who their real parents are.

OP, copy the pages from her journal and keep in a safe place, file for divorce, confront her and let her know that you won't out her to her children if she gives up any claims to your retirement. Ask your attorney how to do the last part to make sure it is kosher.

Even if she gets down on her hands and knees with snot dripping out of her nose declaring her remorse, DO NOT believer her!

Don't worry about breaking up your family - very, very few people are actually enjoying Norman Rockwell holidays.


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## SmallOne

I face similar issues. When we got married (35 years ago), we didn't have sex the entire first year we were married. She was in a cult-like management training program and would often get home late, often came home drunk, and sometimes didn't come home at all. When she didn't come home, she would call and say she had too much to drink and drive and was staying at a girlfriend's house. Unfortunately, back then, I had no way of verifying her whereabouts. I'll go into some detail only to illustrate how bad the situation was.

One morning, she explicitly told me not to page her at work because the management trainees were doing a special project and it would be embarrassing for her if she was paged that evening. As luck would have it, something came up that caused me to call her. Her cube-mate answered her desk phone. I asked him if I should page her. He told me not to bother because the management trainees all went out drinking. I stated that they must have finished their project early. He laughed and said that there was no project - they had been planning this night for weeks. I asked him to leave my wife a post-it, asking her to call me.

A couple of hours later, she called me. I played along and asked how the project was going. She did not mention the drinking and told me she they were nearly done and she would be leaving in 20 minutes. I confronted her about the drinking night and she told me she didn't want to worry me. In plain terms that means she lied to me about what she was planning to do and lied to me about what she did. That night she didn't come home.

Based on that incident, the lack of sex in our marriage, and the constant extended stories involving certain guys in the program, I believe that she probably cheated on me back then. She is nowhere close to admitting that. Fast forward to today and we haven't had sex in five years. She tells me the lack of sex is all having to do with her age (menopause) and low self image that makes her feel "unsexy". It has nothing to do with me.

I'm not sure I buy it. My opinion is that I am not muscular enough or equipped enough to please her sexually. What she is attracted to is a different kind of guy. It obvious in the way she warms up to different guys what attracts her and it's not me. In order to cope, I've morphed into a guy that is into cuckold fantasies and SPH. Even knowing that affairs would only turn me on - she still won't admit she has had them. It's the worst of both worlds. I've changed myself to the core to enjoy the possibility of a cheating wife, but I'm neither allowed to enjoy that nor am I allowed to enjoy a sex life with a faithful wife.

All this said, I truly believe that the past no longer exists, the future does not exist yet, and the only real moment is now. So what do I do with now? 

I've decided that the past is a ghost. I am no longer going to think about it. I love everything else about my wife and will not go without her in my life because of some mistakes she may have made 35 years ago. My advice is to focus on now and be happy in your life. If you find happiness, then thank God for that and move forward. The picture in the sock drawer may be an old relic she forgot about. That's why it's in a drawer and not in a frame. It doesn't necessarily mean anything.


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## jsmart

So I take she had a serious drinking problem. I suspect that having that abortion, damaged her. You would think breaking up with a fiancé with a drug problem would cause her to be extra clean but instead she only married a clean guy but lived a reckless life. A married mother with a young child at home having sex with a bunch strange men is way out there.


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## Blondilocks

It is so hard to read these stories. Desperation is such a sad and ugly condition.


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## MattMatt

Blondilocks said:


> It is so hard to read these stories. Desperation is such a sad and ugly condition.


Then please consider avoiding reading them. And please definitely avoid making snarky comments on any of them, as that helps nobody.


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## MattMatt

Jeffsmith35 said:


> How much does a WW need to hate her spouse to conceal a betrayal like this for 20 years without the guilt eating her up inside? Either that, or she's a pure psychopath. Ugh. I'm sorry.


How do you know that the guilt wasn't eating her up inside? You are presuming that she hates her husband which is probably untrue.


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## loblawbobblog

.


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## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> The affair was not with her ex, it was with a guy she met at a bar in the city next to ours. She traveled for work at the time so I'm guessing the one night stands happened on those trips. She's in recovery and the journal was part of her 4th step. She didn't leave out in the open, but I knew where all that material was and I snooped.
> 
> I don't know what I want at the moment.


What is she in recovery for?


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## drencrom

@loblawbobblog, you came here hurting because you found out you have an unfaithful wife to the 10th degree. A full blown affair, several one night stands....and somehow you are being painted as the a jerk by a few here because you didn't dole out all that you knew in another post??

Don't listen to it. You were the one wronged here, your head is a mess with all the thoughts swimming around in it, and the fact that anyone is jumping on you for omitting certain pieces of information when you have been basically mentally abused and hurting is disgusting.

You have been asked what you want to do, what you feel you want to do. Let us know as some of us can help. If it is divorce, then I can certainly give you insight on that one, as can a few others here.
I'd go immediately to divorce based on the character of your wife, but you are the one that has to decide what you want and what you are willing to live with. Some of us have been where you are. You're situation actually sounds alot like mine. You have a question, just ask.


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## MattMatt

BigDaddyNY said:


> What is she in recovery for?


Probably the AA programme? 

4th step is "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."








Understanding Step 4 of the 12 Steps


People in the12-step rooms define recovery as a process, not an event. The same can be said for step 4, which requires making a moral inventory.




www.verywellmind.com


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## drencrom

loblawbobblog said:


> I don't want to blow up my family


If it's something you cannot live with, and I wouldn't if I were you, this isn't on you. SHE is the one that will blow up the family if you decide to divorce. This is on HER, not you.


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## drencrom

MattMatt said:


> How do you know that the guilt wasn't eating her up inside?


I would guess if guilt was eating her up inside, she wouldn't have kept a picture of an ex in the sock drawer, much less kept a journal of her sexual escapades and never threw it away.


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## TexasMom1216

drencrom said:


> If it's something you cannot live with, and I wouldn't if I were you, this isn't on you. SHE is the one that will blow up the family if you decide to divorce. This is on HER, not you.


OMG THIS. The person who cheated is the one who "blew up the family," NOT the victim of the cheater. You are not in the wrong here, she cheated and then lied for decades.


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## drencrom

TexasMom1216 said:


> OMG THIS. The person who cheated is the one who "blew up the family," NOT the victim of the cheater. You are not in the wrong here, she cheated and then lied for decades.


It's the same thing I said to my X. She slutted around, I told her I wanted a divorce, and she tried to blame the breakup of the family on me.

I had to tell her in plain terms, "You were the one that broke up the family because you couldn't keep your legs closed to other men"


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## BigDaddyNY

MattMatt said:


> Probably the AA programme?
> 
> 4th step is "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Understanding Step 4 of the 12 Steps
> 
> 
> People in the12-step rooms define recovery as a process, not an event. The same can be said for step 4, which requires making a moral inventory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.verywellmind.com


So 5th is to tell someone else, and I believe 9 is make amends with those you've wronged. It might be time for her to jump ahead and come clean with her husband, the man that has stood by her through all of this.


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## TexasMom1216

drencrom said:


> It's the same thing I said to my X. She slutted around, I told her I wanted a divorce, and she tried to blame the breakup of the family on me.
> 
> I had to tell her in plain terms, "You were the one that broke up the family because you couldn't keep your legs closed to other men"


Yep. Same for men. Women are always told "Suck it up for the sake of the kids, don't destroy their family because of your pride." No. The one who stepped out of the marriage is the only one who broke vows and the only one who destroyed the family. No one should have to be a victim over and over again because they married someone who is so selfish and dishonest they can't be faithful.


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## In Absentia

Quite a sad story, @SmallOne


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## Blondilocks

MattMatt said:


> Then please consider avoiding reading them. And please definitely avoid making snarky comments on any of them, as that helps nobody.


There was nothing snarky about it. But, if you say so, it must be true.


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## Rus47

bricks said:


> Tell her quietly, hand her your attorney's business card and give her three choices of times she will be out of the house *so you can return and gather your things.* Have your attorney do all the talking after that, stay in counseling, and try not to dwell.


Believe most attorneys would advise against leaving the family home. There are many threads on here where doing that very much disadvantaged the BS.


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## In Absentia

Rus47 said:


> Its not. You are right and I was wrong. Don’t return evil for evil. My apologies.


Thank you.... my friend is happy now...


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## Rus47

@loblawbobblog, So 22 years ago when you discovered the affair she wanted to leave you for some random guy she met at a bar? What changed her mind? He didnt want her full time?

What is SHE in recovery from?


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## *Deidre*

Have you discussed this with your wife yet, @loblawbobblog?

I don’t know what can be said at this point except she may feel it’s “in the past” and question why you’re bringing it up now. But, it was never resolved and you recommitted to the marriage based on a lie. That’s a tough realization


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## Rus47

TexasMom1216 said:


> OMG THIS. The person who cheated is the one who "blew up the family," NOT the victim of the cheater. You are not in the wrong here, she cheated and then lied for decades.


Based on other threads it seems common for the BS to take ownership of blame for the infidelity and for any natural consequences. A coping mechanism I suppose because the WS is taking no responsibilty.


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## drencrom

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yep. Same for men. Women are always told "Suck it up for the sake of the kids, don't destroy their family because of your pride." No. The one who stepped out of the marriage is the only one who broke vows and the only one who destroyed the family. No one should have to be a victim over and over again because they married someone who is so selfish and dishonest they can't be faithful.


Precisely. So @loblawbobblog, don't ever feel like whatever happens that it is on you. Nobody, man or woman, needs to just "suck it up".


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## 86857

I read bits of sock drawer thread. You’ve always known why the photo. . . It was passionate with ex, she married a guy who isn’t (her words). You’ve tried to be but she doesn’t like it which confuses you, as it would anyone.

The ex is never absent; she talked about him lots down the years, even met him (with your blessing) and now the photo. He was passionate, but... a junkie, beat her up, abortion. . . Pretty screwed up to idealize someone like that. Trouble is he hasn't gone away, he’s still there after decades, made his way into the sock drawer and now on your threads. . .

She takes you for granted & sees you as ‘good ole reliable hubbie-provider’ who would never have an affair or leave her, esp cos she was your first & only love. She wasn’t bothered that the photo upset you, o/w you wouldn’t have had to ask more than once for her to move it. That’s plain arrogant. And she lied about why it was there. It flew in there by itself for no reason? I’d feel taken for a fool just for that. I'm sensing some narcissistic traits here.

For your part, you have nothing to reminisce about as she’s your first and only. As you said, you’re deep in your midlife crisis with all the “If I did a,b,c instead of x,y,z’”. You said that you both discussed how nervous you are of being empty-nesters, thus on your own. That’s a big red flag. . . and sad. . . and both of you feel that way . . Something is very seriously wrong here. Empty nesters should be excited, kids raised, fun times ahead.

I think the problem at the core is that with her brand new college degree & new job coming with opportunities to meet new people, you’re scared she’ll have an affair again and/or leave you for the ‘passion’ that she craves. That’s what she did last time she worked before being a SAHM. It was pretty full-on, PA & string of ONSs. I’d be scared too. Who is she anyway? Do you really know?

If it was me, I couldn’t live like that. I’d have to be number one in my husband’s eyes with no one else lurking in the shadows, physically or otherwise.

I’d put money on it that if you left her, the first thing she’d do is look up the ex.

In all your posts I have heard zero remorse from her, unless I missed it. That’s the biggest red flag of all.

The thing is you still have opportunities ahead re the a,b,c’s and x,y,z’s.
The decision to stay or go is one of those.
Only this time, unlike before, you have full knowledge of what she did.


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## drencrom

*Deidre* said:


> Have you discussed this with your wife yet, @loblawbobblog?
> 
> I don’t know what can be said at this point except she may feel it’s “in the past” and question why you’re bringing it up now.


Because if it was truly in the past, there would be no photo of the X in a sock drawer, and the journal would have been thrown away, or the disgusting parts at least ripped out.

It's obviously not in the past for her, and never will be for him.


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## Rob_1

********** said:


> he thing is you still have opportunities ahead re the a,b,c’s and x,y,z’s.


Yes, correct. The problem is he has no courage and self respect to do just that. Is plain and simple. He's staying...until if and when he gets tossed out.


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## *Deidre*

drencrom said:


> Because if it was truly in the past, there would be no photo of the X in a sock drawer, and the journal would have been thrown away, or the disgusting parts at least ripped out.
> 
> It's obviously not in the past for her, and never will be for him.


I know - I’m thinking she will “push back” with that - “why are you bringing this up now?”


----------



## loblawbobblog

.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rob_1 said:


> Yes, correct. The problem is he has no courage and self respect to do just that. Is plain and simple. He's staying...until if and when he gets tossed out.


I agree. He is paralyzed by fear. From the outside it seems unreal that anyone would put up with this, but fear is powerful. He knows nothing else besides this relationship. If I do the math right he was around 23 before he had this very first relationship. He probably isn't very socially inclined and is afraid to start over, even if it probably is the healthiest thing for him. I'm trying not to be too judgmental. In his mind he is in a very tough spot. The only woman he has ever loved has torn his heart out. Very sad.


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## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> She said the affair was mostly a way out for her, that I'd eventually find out (which I did) and do the work of leaving. Instead, I fought for the marriage, which took her by surprise. I don't know how long during that year the one night stands occurred, that is crucial for me to find out because by April of that year (I confronted her on new years day) we were having sex again.


Did she say why she wanted out?


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## Rob_1

BigDaddyNY said:


> Did she say why she wanted out?


I would gather that it is because he actually never really measured up to what she knew with other men. Your typical "nice guy". From a psychological, physical, and emotional point of view he never completed her, hence her longings for her old boyfriend/other men. I can't see any other reasons.


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## 86857

loblawbobblog said:


> She said the affair was mostly a way out for her, that I'd eventually find out (which I did) and do the work of leaving. Instead, I fought for the marriage, which took her by surprise. I don't know how long during that year the one night stands occurred, that is crucial for me to find out because by April of that year (I confronted her on new years day) we were having sex again.


@loblawbobblog I'm not trying to be hard on you but I think you may be focusing on the details as above, rather than the big picture. If the ONSs happened before you started sleeping together again, will that somehow make you stay? Why is it 'crucial'? To me, the fact they happened during therapy would be worse. 
By saying that she thought you'd leave tells me that you may have been a 'safe' option rather than 'the one' for her. Don't worry, lots of spouses are actually that. And it can & does work. But sometimes it comes back to bite, as in this case, I feel. 
I'm writing from the perspective of what your life will be like in 5 or 10 years time, not now. 
I also understand that the fears around leaving can be paralyzing. . . because I've been there.


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## BigDaddyNY

Rob_1 said:


> I would gather that it is because he actually never really measured up to what she knew with other men. Your typical "nice guy". From a psychological, physical, and emotional point of view he never completed her, hence her longings for her old boyfriend/other men. I can't see any other reasons.


Quite possible. If so, too bad she figured that out after they already had a kid.


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## Rob_1

BigDaddyNY said:


> Quite possible. If so, too bad she figured that out after they already had a kid.


Unfortunately, yes, it happens all the time. Kids get thrown in the equation as part of accepting to "settle down" for what you don't really want, as we all know it as the infamous "Plan B".


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## re16

loblawbobblog said:


> She said the affair was mostly a way out for her, that I'd eventually find out (which I did) and do the work of leaving. Instead, I fought for the marriage, which took her by surprise. I don't know how long during that year the one night stands occurred, that is crucial for me to find out because by April of that year (I confronted her on new years day) we were having sex again


Are you going to discuss the one night stands with her?


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## Parallax857

Rob_1 said:


> I would gather that it is because he actually never really measured up to what she knew with other men. Your typical "nice guy". From a psychological, physical, and emotional point of view he never completed her, hence her longings for her old boyfriend/other men. I can't see any other reasons.


I'm so baffled by your John Wayne worldview. In my view, dominance never works in a relationship. The way to deal with someone who isn't honest or someone who doesn't love you isn't to coerce them or make demands or be a big jerk to try to "complete her", whatever that means. It's to recognize you selected a woman with huge emotional problems. That unless she's willing to do her work, she'll never be a real partner. That, if she were willing to do her work, it would still take time and you'd be taking a risk because she might lie again. And then make a choice. To either stick it out and make good faith efforts to grow together and repair the marriage, or to get out and move on. 

In this case, it may be the entire emotional relationship was an illusion. The wife may have never been present to herself, let alone anyone else. If so, the relationship would have to be created (not recreated). It, frankly, seems a long shot. But we don't know all the details and we're just hearing one spouse's point of view. Perhaps she has grown to love him. Perhaps she regrets her infidelities. Doesn't sound like it. Particularly her comment expressing a desire to not have to work on things. That the man she married didn't need to talk about feelings or needs. I'm reading tea leaves because I'm only getting one point of view, and it's filtered through the OP, but from what I'm seeing, it's looking like a long shot that the marriage could be fixed. Plus, as others have said, the best thing for the OP is probably to move on and create a new life. The nice thing about being an older man is that women are abundant.


----------



## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> She said the affair was mostly a way out for her, that I'd eventually find out (which I did) and do the work of leaving. Instead,


Why did she want out? And why didnt she want to do the “work” of leaving?


----------



## Rob_1

Parallax857 said:


> I'm so baffled by your John Wayne worldview. In my view, dominance never works in a relationship. The way to deal with someone who isn't honest or someone who doesn't love you isn't to coerce them or make demands or be a big jerk to try to "complete her", whatever that means. It's to recognize you selected a woman with huge emotional problems. That unless she's willing to do her work, she'll never be a real partner. That, if she were willing to do her work, it would still take time and you'd be taking a risk because she might lie again. And then make a choice. To either stick it out and make good faith efforts to grow together and repair the marriage, or to get out and move on.
> 
> In this case, it may be the entire emotional relationship was an illusion. The wife may have never been present to herself, let alone anyone else. If so, the relationship would have to be created (not recreated). It, frankly, seems a long shot. But we don't know all the details and we're just hearing one spouse's point of view. Perhaps she has grown to love him. Perhaps she regrets her infidelities. Doesn't sound like it. Particularly her comment expressing a desire to not have to work on things. That the man she married didn't need to talk about feelings or needs. I'm reading tea leaves because I'm only getting one point of view, and it's filtered through the OP, but from what I'm seeing, it's looking like a long shot that the marriage could be fixed. Plus, as others have said, the best thing for the OP is probably to move on and create a new life. The nice thing about being an older man is that women are abundant.


For a guy that practices law. you seem pretty inept at comprehension. What John Wayne World View? What domination did I mentioned or implied? You seem to have predetermined views from which you don't seem to deviate.

My point was about conjectures. Noticed that I said "I would gather" in my opening statement. Out there in real world, what I postulated, happens all the time around this world. So, it's not a farfetched supposition of mine, based on the events of their life.

So, you better stop being so sanctimonious, and your conjectures about her "growing to love him" is just as much conjecture as mine. Of course she could have learned to love him, but that's way different than "being in love" with him.


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## loblawbobblog

.


----------



## *Deidre*

From all the info that has come out in this thread relating to the OP’s marriage, it sounds like she wanted the affairs to be discovered and for the OP to divorce her. She stayed because he worked on the marriage but sadly, it sounds like she was never “all in.”

It’s admirable to stand by your marriage but you can’t be the only one standing for it. 😔


----------



## Zedd

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm not making a decision on staying or leaving until she and our youngest graduate in June and she finds a job, at which time I'll confront her and assess how she responds.


There's a high degree of probability, given what's occurred recently, that she's contemplating the same.


----------



## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> She said the affair was mostly a way out for her, that I'd eventually find out (which I did) and do the work of leaving. Instead, I fought for the marriage, which took her by surprise. I don't know how long during that year the one night stands occurred, that is crucial for me to find out because by April of that year (I confronted her on new years day) we were having sex again.


Why have you not confronted her about the string of ONS yet? It’s no wonder this having an negative impact on your work. Bottling this up for now months, will impact your health too. 

What saddens me further about your situation is that you have probably been looking sad and tried to start conversations about such an important subject like relationship status and pending empty nest stage while the image of her with all of those men plays in your head yet she is completely indifferent and says this is not the man she married. After how much she has betrayed you and yet you still fought for her and to keep your young family intact yet nothing from her. If she truly loved you she would be be bending over backwards to reassure you of her love but that’s not what is happening. You know deep in your gut that the pic of her pregnant self with her ex is a symptom of something more. Man my heart aches over your situation.


----------



## Parallax857

Rob_1 said:


> For a guy that practices law. you seem pretty inept at comprehension. What John Wayne World View? What denomination did I mentioned or implied? You seem to have predetermined views from which you don't seem to deviate.
> 
> My point was about conjectures. Noticed that I say "I would gather" in my opening statement. Out there in real world, what I postulated, happens all the time around this world. So, it's not a farfetched supposition of mine, based on the events of their life.
> 
> So, you better stop being so sanctimonious, and your conjectures about her "growing to love him" is just as much conjecture as mine. Of course she could have learned to love him, but that's way different than "being in love" with him.


Clearly, we're all speculating. There's no way, from this distance, to really understand the relationship. I've just read several of your comments which seem to place a lot of emphasis on the man taking charge, the man showing dominance. You spoke at several points about the importance of not being a "nice guy". You've at times advocated for being a bad boy, or a badder boy than the guys who came before. None of which makes any sense in my world. Most of the women I've known have wanted men who are kind, caring and sensitive. 

Of course that's just my sense of things. We tend to draw in the people who are attracted by what we offer so my sense of women is likely biased, as is yours and everyone else's. I've often noticed that, among attorneys, no matter one's approach, one draws a following in time. People who think you walk on water, who then send their friends. And since birds of feather tend to see things in similar ways, one can become arrogant if one just takes in the positive feedback without keeping in mind that there are untold masses who aren't beating a path to one's door because what one is offering doesn't resonate for them. 

Romantic relationships are more challenging. A woman may adore you one day and be super frustrated with you the next. In fact, it can shift from moment to moment. But, still, we tend to draw in those who are attracted to whatever it is we got. I'm no movie star but two of my wives thought I was (when things between us were good). One, before we were married, had a picture of me on her wall that her roommate referred to as a shrine. The roommate used to show her pictures from GK and my girlfriend at the time would say that those guys weren't any better looking than me. To which her roommate would practically do a spit-take. My wife now is kind of the same way. She'll often tell me I look like Richard Gere, which is ridiculously far from the truth. I'm a 59 year old guy, 5 foot 8, 150 pounds, with a chin that loosens with time. At no time have I ever resembled Richard Gere, but when a woman is in love, it makes us more handsome. 

I'm far from an alpha. I'm cerebral, sensitive. In high school, I was just your typical anonymous dork. And now I'm old too. So the fact that my wife idealizes me is proof that one doesn't have to be an alpha to have a great relationship. And I'd assert that one's chances are actually a lot better if one isn't an alpha. I can't tell you how quickly my wife runs the other way from men like that. She may notice muscles and respond at some animal level, but those have never been the kind of men she's dated or felt drawn to. Of course every woman is different and some are into alphas. No one is everyone's cup of tea.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm blown away by all the responses to this and my other thread. You've all given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the time and energy spent writing them. I'm in therapy which at first I spent unloading about my wife but now I'm focused on my own issues. It's long overdue. I'm not making a decision on staying or leaving until she and our youngest graduate in June and she finds a job, at which time I'll confront her and assess how she responds.
> 
> I've realized I'm still operating within our relationship like the inexperienced 21 year old I was when I met her. I've made great strides in career but have not grown much on an interpersonal level. I still make decisions based on fear, I'm still dragged kicking and screaming into any kind of change outside of my job. I have a good core group of friends, I have a steady hobby that gets me out of the house and collaborating with people, I have a good relationship with my kids, I make a really good living. I have a lot, basically. What I don't have is a healthy, mature and secure relationship with my wife. Whether that's still possible is very much up in the air for me. Thanks again for the words of advice.


In reality it probably isn't that bad of an idea to wait until she is employed. It may work in your favor in the event spousal support would be awarded.


----------



## loblawbobblog

.


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## Parallax857

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm blown away by all the responses to this and my other thread. You've all given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the time and energy spent writing them. I'm in therapy which at first I spent unloading about my wife but now I'm focused on my own issues. It's long overdue. I'm not making a decision on staying or leaving until she and our youngest graduate in June and she finds a job, at which time I'll confront her and assess how she responds.
> 
> I've realized I'm still operating within our relationship like the inexperienced 21 year old I was when I met her. I've made great strides in career but have not grown much on an interpersonal level. I still make decisions based on fear, I'm still dragged kicking and screaming into any kind of change outside of my job. I have a good core group of friends, I have a steady hobby that gets me out of the house and collaborating with people, I have a good relationship with my kids, I make a really good living. I have a lot, basically. What I don't have is a healthy, mature and secure relationship with my wife. Whether that's still possible is very much up in the air for me. Thanks again for the words of advice.


If you wind up leaving your wife and take time to heal, you'll find that dating is much easier now at 55 than it was at 21. Assuming you stay with women approximately your own age. Back then, dating was competitive and it was hard for most of us to attract women. As we get older, there are fewer available men and more women plus the women are more mature. Some of them are done with guys who haven't emotionally matured. But that only makes men who have matured that much more interesting. 

In some ways, your path and mine are similar. I lost my virginity at 19 and then married that woman. I wasn't her first but she was mine. Fortunately she had an affair and left me 12 years later. So there I was in my early 30s, having to start over. It was scary and painful but I had no choice. I look back on her affair now as a great gift but I didn't see it that way at the time. 

Having to start again led me to my second wife, who was a revelation. I had no idea a woman could truly love me. I had no idea a woman could think I was the cat's meow. It didn't last. We were too young and immature to know how to do relationship long term. But it was so positive and so healing. After that, I knew that an amazing woman could love me. 

After that, I spent ten years in a wilderness, dating a lot of women who tried hard but were not right for me. I spend six and a half of those ten years in therapy and you could measure my progress by evaluating the women I dated. They got heathier and healthier. 

At 47, I met my wife and we've been going strong for 12 years. She's an amazing person, one of the best I've ever know. We adore each other and we have the skills to work through whatever comes up between us in a way that helps us to go deeper. We're more in love today than on the day we married. 

Had my first wife not left, I might still be with her. This is an opportunity for you, my friend. Since you're well into your 50s, you won't have to go through everything that I did. You can do your therapy more rapidly and figure out what sort of life you want. If you decide you want to have an intimate relationship or marriage, you can have it. I promise. And it will blow what you've had with your wife out of the water.


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## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> Entirely possible, that's what happened in 2000, she got a good job the year before and got a taste of financial independence while I was finishing my degree. I was also working full time and here's one smart thing I did at the time: I kept working even after she started making enough to support us because I didn't want her to be able to say, "I supported you while you were in school" if we ever split up. I made that decision before **** went down, one of the rare instances of good forethought in my life. At any rate, she started meeting and hanging out with a party crowd at work and it went from there. So yeah, I'm more than a bit anxious this time around.


What made you even think that you may split up before all that went down in 2000? If you were making plans for just incase a split occurred I suspect there had to be some reason you were worried about that. Most happily married people don't makes contingency plans for divorce.


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## Evinrude58

In Absentia said:


> Thank you.... my friend is happy now...


I have a different viewpoint:
Purposefully ensuring nobody ever has any consequences for their actions because it’s “evil” just enables evildoers to keep hurting people. I’m all for some good old fashioned revenge. It can be a learning experience for OP’s wife. 

I agree I’m wrong to suggest what I did, BUT—/ divorcing her would just give her cash snd prizes. I’d not do it. And I would probably look for a new woman and monkey branch if I could. It’s wrong, but I’d likely do that in OP’s predicament.


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## Rob_1

Parallax857 said:


> You've at times advocated for being a bad boy, or a badder boy than the guys who came before.


You're putting words to my mouth. Show me one post where I advocate for bad boys or badder?
Quite the contrary, I detest that type of men. To me they're nothing but insecure assholes.

As far as Alpha, my view of an Alpha is not that of a dominant jack, that pretends to be #1, Alpha to me is a man that have self respect, dignity, is secure in himself and is not afraid to express himself in fear of how he would be perceived. Not some self serving arrogant jack.

I'm older than you, and also have seen it almost all, but one thing I know is that self respect and dignity in any personal and business issues is key to ensure that out of that, decisiveness in responding is next when disrespected.


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## Anastasia6

Evinrude58 said:


> I have a different viewpoint:
> Purposefully ensuring nobody ever has any consequences for their actions because it’s “evil” just enables evildoers to keep hurting people. I’m all for some good old fashioned revenge. It can be a learning experience for OP’s wife.
> 
> I agree I’m wrong to suggest what I did, BUT—/ divorcing her would just give her cash snd prizes. I’d not do it. And I would probably look for a new woman and monkey branch if I could. It’s wrong, but I’d likely do that in OP’s predicament.


The only problem with this strategy is what kind of woman would let you monkey branch? having an affair? Probably not a quality woman.


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## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> The only problem with this strategy is what kind of woman would let you monkey branch? having an affair? Probably not a quality woman.


Someone who will cheat with you will cheat on you.


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## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm blown away by all the responses to this and my other thread. You've all given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the time and energy spent writing them. I'm in therapy which at first I spent unloading about my wife but now I'm focused on my own issues. It's long overdue. I'm not making a decision on staying or leaving until she and our youngest graduate in June and she finds a job, at which time I'll confront her and assess how she responds.
> 
> I've realized I'm still operating within our relationship like the inexperienced 21 year old I was when I met her. I've made great strides in career but have not grown much on an interpersonal level. I still make decisions based on fear, I'm still dragged kicking and screaming into any kind of change outside of my job. I have a good core group of friends, I have a steady hobby that gets me out of the house and collaborating with people, I have a good relationship with my kids, I make a really good living. I have a lot, basically. What I don't have is a healthy, mature and secure relationship with my wife. Whether that's still possible is very much up in the air for me. Thanks again for the words of advice.


This sounds to me like you have a sound strategy and making a lot of progress for yourself. June sounds like a fantastic plan. Just realize that she has proven “the truth isnt in this one”, so “trust but verify” when you confront her.

Whether you can have a secure relationship with her or not, you have the important aspects to have a good life moving forward. I personally think way more peaceful without her, but you will figure that out.

Btw, talking with lawyer doesnt commit you to anything.


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## jsmart

TexasMom1216 said:


> Someone who will cheat with you will cheat on you.


Which is why so few man actually leave their marriage for the OW. Even though she’s cheating with him,, in the back of his head, he’s thinking if she’s cheating with me, later she’ll cheat on me. That and of course not wanting to be relegated to a part time dad as well as fear of the courts cleaning him out.


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## TexasMom1216

jsmart said:


> Which is why so few man actually leave their marriage for the OW. Even though she’s cheating with him,, in the back of his head, he’s thinking if she’s cheating with me, later she’ll cheat on me. That and of course not wanting to be relegated to a part time dad as well as fear of the courts cleaning him out.


There’s nothing in there that indicates any sort of remorse for deceiving and humiliating his wife. Interesting omission.


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## A18S37K14H18

Parallax857 said:


> I'm baffled by the calls for DNA testing of the children. If the OP were not the biological father of the children, should he turn his back on them? Do all those years acting as their father count for nothing? Is it right to take from the children the only father they have ever known?
> 
> Jeez, people. Parenthood isn't about DNA. It's about love and attachment.



Parallax,

Respectfully, you are missing the point regarding this.

When so many tell an OP to DNA their children, it's for the following reason most of the times:

It's meant as a way to convey the enormity of the breach of trust the lying cheating spouse has perpetrated upon their partner.

It's meant as a way for the BS to let their lying cheating partner know that they've obliterated their trust in them so much that it's shaken their belief in them as a person, as a partner and it's made them wonder what else have they lied about all these years.

When a betrayed spouse actually goes ahead and gets a DNA test on their children (even though they are 99.99% or !00% sure the children are theirs), it's to impress upon their lying cheating partner how badly they have been betrayed, hurt & disillusioned by them.

It also let's their lying cheater partner know, in no uncertain terms, that they no longer are able to trust ANYTHING about their partner and that extends to whether the children are actually theirs or not.

THAT is what having children tested for DNA is for. It's to send a strong message to their lying cheater partner about just how incredibly damaging their behavior was to them and that it's caused them to doubt everything and anything since they could do that, lie and cheat on them.


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## 86857

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm not making a decision on staying or leaving until she and our youngest graduate in June and she finds a job, at which time I'll confront her and assess how she responds.
> I've realized I'm still operating within our relationship like the inexperienced 21 year old I was when I met her....
> I have a good core group of friends, I have a steady hobby that gets me out of the house and collaborating with people, I have a good relationship with my kids, I make a really good living - I have a lot, basically. . .


@loblawbobblog.
Huge kudos 
You sound almost like a different person than on both of your threads.
I think you have actually come a long way in a very short time.
It sounds like a very solid plan to me, on many levels.
Most importantly it's what you're comfortable with. You are honoring yourself.
It also gives you time to reflect. All of this is a process.
And outside this, wow! You surely have a lot as you said. It's more important than you might think right now.


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## jsmart

TexasMom1216 said:


> There’s nothing in there that indicates any sort of remorse for deceiving and humiliating his wife. Interesting omission.


Come on Tex. I’m no fan of WHs. I was just pointing out that most WHs don’t leave even though many have the chance. Meanwhile, a significant percentage WWs would leave . Many stay but are not able to emotionally or sexually reconnect with their husband, like what has happened to @loblawbobblog . Now I’m not suggesting that these WHs who stay should get any less ire from society. They are garbage and the fact that they tend to stay should not win them ANY praise.


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## TexasMom1216

jsmart said:


> Come on Tex. I’m no fan of WHs. I was just pointing out that most WHs don’t leave even though many have the chance. Meanwhile, a significant percentage WWs would leave . Many stay but are not able to emotionally or sexually reconnect with their husband, like what has happened to @loblawbobblog . Now I’m not suggesting that these WHs who stay should get any less ire from society. *They are garbage and the fact that they tend to stay should not win them ANY praise*.


Agreed, thank you for clarifying. The husbands tend to stay because they have no emotional connection to their BWs. They are just using them, the way they are using their APs, and enjoy having live-in housekeeping services and a convenient sexual plan B. The way I believe the OP's wife has been using him for all these years. Some people are sociopaths with zero human empathy or regard for others. They're all horrible and should all be shamed.


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## Captain Obvious

TexasMom1216 said:


> There’s nothing in there that indicates any sort of remorse for deceiving and humiliating his wife. Interesting omission.


I'd bet most of time they aren't remorseful, just regretful. Regretful they got busted, regretful they can't have their side piece anymore, and regretful because of all the consequences they are now facing.


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## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> Entirely possible, that's what happened in 2000, *she got a good job the year before and got a taste of financial independence *while I was finishing my degree. I was also working full time and here's one smart thing I did at the time: I kept working even after *she started making enough to support us* because I didn't want her to be able to say, "I supported you while you were in school" *if we ever split up*. I made that decision before **** went down, one of the rare instances of good forethought in my life. At any rate, *she started meeting and hanging out with a party crowd at work and it went from there.* So yeah, I'm more than a bit anxious this time around.


As soon as she was doing well, she wanted level up. Even with a small child at home, she was out acting like a single woman. Don't be surprised if there were also ONS' before the affair. Even though some will say no, the numbers don't lie. The more income that a wife makes than her husband, the higher the chances for getting betrayed. Now, I'm not say all women but it's a measurable risk. Which in your case bore out with so many betrayals, which emanated from a lack of respect she had for you.

June will be here sooner than you think. You really need to be preparing yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, and legally. Talking to a lawyer to find out exactly what you're potentially facing is critical. Also get advise on money moves you need to make. I guarantee you, she is getting her ducks in a row for a potential split. That pic is a symptom of her yearning for something. Your gut knows it.

Lastly, you have never mentioned in-laws or even your own family. How is your relationship with her family and her relationship with yours? Making sure those relationships are strong can help you through the coming storm. How about your kids. Are you close with them or HAS her being a SAHM caused them to be momma boys? You're going to need emotional support.


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## loblawbobblog

.


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## jsmart

Parallax857 said:


> If you wind up leaving your wife and take time to heal, you'll find that dating is much easier now at 55 than it was at 21. Assuming you stay with women approximately your own age. Back then, dating was competitive and it was hard for most of us to attract women. As we get older, there are fewer available men and more women plus the women are more mature. Some of them are done with guys who haven't emotionally matured. But that only makes men who have matured that much more interesting.
> 
> In some ways, your path and mine are similar. I lost my virginity at 19 and then married that woman. I wasn't her first but she was mine. Fortunately she had an affair and left me 12 years later. So there I was in my early 30s, having to start over. It was scary and painful but I had no choice. I look back on her affair now as a great gift but I didn't see it that way at the time.
> 
> Having to start again led me to my second wife, who was a revelation. I had no idea a woman could truly love me. I had no idea a woman could think I was the cat's meow. It didn't last. We were too young and immature to know how to do relationship long term. But it was so positive and so healing. After that, I knew that an amazing woman could love me.
> 
> After that, I spent ten years in a wilderness, dating a lot of women who tried hard but were not right for me. I spend six and a half of those ten years in therapy and you could measure my progress by evaluating the women I dated. They got heathier and healthier.
> 
> At 47, I met my wife and we've been going strong for 12 years. She's an amazing person, one of the best I've ever know. We adore each other and we have the skills to work through whatever comes up between us in a way that helps us to go deeper. We're more in love today than on the day we married.
> 
> Had my first wife not left, I might still be with her. This is an opportunity for you, my friend. Since you're well into your 50s, you won't have to go through everything that I did. You can do your therapy more rapidly and figure out what sort of life you want. If you decide you want to have an intimate relationship or marriage, you can have it. I promise. And it will blow what you've had with your wife out of the water.


Wow, this was a great post and I’m sure it could give @loblawbobblog hope. I know he’s clutching on to his wife because he believes in the vows he took but also because he’s thinking he can’t get another woman. It just takes seeing something from a different angle to make him realize that his fear or imagined reality is not the same once he’s able to see it in a different angle.


----------



## Megaforce

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm blown away by all the responses to this and my other thread. You've all given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the time and energy spent writing them. I'm in therapy which at first I spent unloading about my wife but now I'm focused on my own issues. It's long overdue. I'm not making a decision on staying or leaving until she and our youngest graduate in June and she finds a job, at which time I'll confront her and assess how she responds.
> 
> I've realized I'm still operating within our relationship like the inexperienced 21 year old I was when I met her. I've made great strides in career but have not grown much on an interpersonal level. I still make decisions based on fear, I'm still dragged kicking and screaming into any kind of change outside of my job. I have a good core group of friends, I have a steady hobby that gets me out of the house and collaborating with people, I have a good relationship with my kids, I make a really good living. I have a lot, basically. What I don't have is a healthy, mature and secure relationship with my wife. Whether that's still possible is very much up in the air for me. Thanks again for the words of advice.


 I think you should read up on the Cluster B personality disorders.


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## Evinrude58

Anastasia6 said:


> The only problem with this strategy is what kind of woman would let you monkey branch? having an affair? Probably not a quality woman.


Agreed. I suppose my plan wasn’t thought out well. But it would be hard not to beat what op currently lives with


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## Evinrude58

loblawbobblog said:


> Her family history is a mess, but she's close with her brother and sister. I'm very close with my family, as is my wife. Here's the thing: I never told my family about her cheating in 2000. I told them we were going through a rough patch, but nothing more. Frankly, I was embarrassed by the whole thing and only told a close friend, and as I hoped to reconcile, I didn't want my family hating her. It was the wrong move emotionally for me as it made the burden of it all mine and mine alone. Chalk it up to another mistake in my long list of mistakes.


Your thinking on not telling them if reconciling was right. Reconciling with an unrepentant cheater was the error.


----------



## Young at Heart

Parallax857 said:


> I'm baffled by the calls for DNA testing of the children. If the OP were not the biological father of the children, should he turn his back on them? Do all those years acting as their father count for nothing? Is it right to take from the children the only father they have ever known?
> 
> Jeez, people. Parenthood isn't about DNA. It's about love and attachment. The OP is the children's father -- regardless of 23 and Me findings. If they reveal no issue, great. But if they showed otherwise, that would still be something best left alone. Who cares? I'm not advocating forgiving the wife. But the children have done nothing wrong and the OP did nothing wrong, so why should they be made to suffer?
> 
> I find suggestions that the OP should walk out on the children if he's not the bio dad positively primitive.


While I agree with you completely, I also feel that if any of them were not his children in a contested divorce proceeding his wife could use that against him. If I were him I would want to know in advance anything that my about to be ex-wife might spring on me to emotionally hurt me.


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## Young at Heart

Lostinthought61 said:


> Can i suggest that you have sat back (unknowingly) and watched your wife live the out she wanted having an affair and a number of ONS and you, that now that you are 53 and reflecting that if you now divorce she would get half of everything you worked for...and this pisses you off because in a way you would be rewarding bad behavior in a sense.....so might i suggest that you make it clear to her that you no longer care...that you knwo about all these one night stands and that you intend to expose her to the children and that while you will not divorce her you intend on doing everything for yourself now, meaning that you will be the selfish one and do anything and everything you want to do on your bucket list and you have no intention of doing any more therapy and that since she open your marriage by cheating you will keep those options open...what how beresk she will get when she can nto control you, nor control the narrative once you expose her to the family. she will be stuck, she will get angry, she will cry, and you will just look at her and smile. it's time to reward yourself for putting up with a hoe.


That doesn't sound like much of a life or a marriage. Divorce would probably produce more happiness.


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## Young at Heart

SmallOne said:


> I face similar issues. When we got married (35 years ago), we didn't have sex the entire first year we were married....
> 
> .......Fast forward to today and we haven't had sex in five years. She tells me the lack of sex is all having to do with her age (menopause) and low self image that makes her feel "unsexy". It has nothing to do with me.
> 
> I'm not sure I buy it. My opinion is that I am not muscular enough or equipped enough to please her sexually. What she is attracted to is a different kind of guy. It obvious in the way she warms up to different guys what attracts her and it's not me. In order to cope, *I've morphed into a guy that is into cuckold fantasies and SPH*. Even knowing that affairs would only turn me on - she still won't admit she has had them. It's the worst of both worlds. * I've changed myself to the core to enjoy the possibility of a cheating wife, but I'm neither allowed to enjoy that nor am I allowed to enjoy a sex life with a faithful wife.*
> 
> ......*. So what do I do with now? *
> 
> ........ I love everything else about my wife and will not go without her in my life because of some mistakes she may have made 35 years ago. My advice is *to focus on now and be happy in your life*. If you find happiness, then thank God for that and move forward. The picture in the sock drawer may be an old relic she forgot about. That's why it's in a drawer and not in a frame. It doesn't necessarily mean anything.


First, my heart goes out to you. You have allowed yourself to become "damaged goods." Yes, focus on now and how to be happy. But also work on healing yourself. Please, work on healing the emotional trauma your wife put you through. If she is that self-centered, she may divorce you at any time. You can't really depend on her for your future happiness.


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## Young at Heart

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm blown away by all the responses to this and my other thread. You've all given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the time and energy spent writing them. I'm in therapy which at first I spent unloading about my wife but now I'm focused on my own issues. It's long overdue. I'm not making a decision on staying or leaving until she and our youngest graduate in June and she finds a job, at which time I'll confront her and assess how she responds.
> 
> I've realized I'm still operating within our relationship like the inexperienced 21 year old I was when I met her. I've made great strides in career but have not grown much on an interpersonal level. I still make decisions based on fear, I'm still dragged kicking and screaming into any kind of change outside of my job. I have a good core group of friends, I have a steady hobby that gets me out of the house and collaborating with people, I have a good relationship with my kids, I make a really good living. I have a lot, basically. What I don't have is a healthy, mature and secure relationship with my wife. Whether that's still possible is very much up in the air for me. Thanks again for the words of advice.


Congratulations! it sounds like you have a plan. The only thing I would change while you are waiting for the last to graduate and your wife to get a job it to build you relationship will all of your children now. When you divorce (if that is what you choose) it will be troubling for your children. To the extent you have a better relationship and you do more things with them such as sports, then you will have excuses to be with them and talk to them about their fears and changes associated with their mom and dad divorcing.

One of the most critical things you should discuss with your counselor is what and how much to tell your children, when they ask, about why you are divorcing, if that is what you choose. It could quite honestly be that "you mother did something repeatedly that makes it impossible for me to ever trust her again." I would not be more specific with them and I would not trash her in front of them.

Good luck and keep working on the details of your plan. Make sure you talk to a good attorney. Also, on of the things, I would do is in the divorce proceedings where your assets are being divided up, set up a trust based on equal shares of some of the asset from her and you to go to paying for college or trade school for your children. That way she can squander it away leaving you to give you children what they need.


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## bricks

Rus47 said:


> Believe most attorneys would advise against leaving the family home. There are many threads on here where doing that very much disadvantaged the BS.


Thanks for the correction. You are right. I was thinking more about OP not engaging in discussions, arguments, etc.


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## Rus47

jsmart said:


> while the image of her with all of those men plays in your head


@loblawbobblog I would think your sex life at this stage is problematic. It would be impossible for me to get the mind movies out of my head long enough to get it up for an encounter in this situation. And if I somehow managed to start, it would be impossible to maintain concentration long enough to finish. She surely already knows there is Trouble in River City, with a capital "T".


----------



## loblawbobblog

.


----------



## Rus47

Captain Obvious said:


> I'd bet most of time they aren't remorseful, just regretful. Regretful they got busted, regretful they can't have their side piece anymore, and regretful because of* all the consequences they are now facing*.


And those 'consequences' would be what? So far all I can see for consequences to the WW is cash, prizes, and freedom to live single on back of someone else's work. Only one facing any consequences is the betrayed one.


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## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> Chalk it up to another mistake in my long list of mistakes.


Whoa there! Stop beating yourself! That is your WS's job which she is doing very well. All of our mistakes are in the past, can't be undone, and we all make tons of them. And they are there for us to learn from. Focus on what you have done right, which you enumerated a few posts back. Successful career, good friends, financial success, raising kids to adulthood. Focus on the positives. You are a good person who has been horribly treated by someone you trusted. 

BTW, I was just realizing from the other thread you mentioned doing laundry. While your 'wife' is a SAHM?!? While you work at a a good paying job to support the family. I will take a bunch of flack for sure from the other gender on here, but my wife was SAHM raising 4 kids and she told me to stay away from HER washer, drier, and vacuum cleaner. The house was HER domain. After I retired and home, we started cleaning house together but to this day the washer and drier are off limits.

IMO there is no way you should be working a paying job and doing laundry while she sits on her butt at home doing whatever she feels like doing.


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## gaius

It seems like you enjoy creating a lot of drama for yourself. Your wife cheated on you and told you she didn't want to be with you anymore. And you accepted it and somehow coaxed her to stay with you. Whether it was with one man or 10 men really doesn't matter....

So make a decision and stick with it already. Either swallow your pride, eat the poop sandwich she served you and make your marriage work or get rid of her. Stop with this indecisiveness.


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## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> Yep, can't finish, which has never happened before. I've been chalking it up to stress.


Please make an effort to workout. If you have been, take it up a notch. The stress you’re enduring will do a number on your T levels. See it as part of the preparations for the next stage of life you’re entering. Also make sure you’re eating healthy foods and don’t self medicate with the bottle.


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## loblawbobblog

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## PieceOfSky

There’s never going to be a good time to decide and take action to begin the end. Be careful to not find yet another reason after graduation to wait, and a reason after that. Maybe set a deadline for yourself.

Prepare to be gaslit and manipulated, if and when you bring up issues.

Read up on the emotionally manipulating tactics cataloged at outofthefog.net

What is she in recovery for?

If you decide to end your marriage, or even if you don’t just yet, you can spend some of your time intentionally detaching—from her, and the reality distortions she has imposed on your life. Seems a safer place from which to decide.


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## Captain Obvious

Rus47 said:


> And those 'consequences' would be what? So far all I can see for consequences to the WW is cash, prizes, and freedom to live single on back of someone else's work. Only one facing any consequences is the betrayed one.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> I was referring to a wayward husband realizing he might be paying alimony and/or child support for a very long time. Yeah those kind of consequences.


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## Marc878

loblawbobblog said:


> Her family history is a mess, but she's close with her brother and sister. I'm very close with my family, as is my wife. Here's the thing: I never told my family about her cheating in 2000. I told them we were going through a rough patch, but nothing more. Frankly, I was embarrassed by the whole thing and only told a close friend, and as I hoped to reconcile, I didn't want my family hating her. It was the wrong move emotionally for me as it made the burden of it all mine and mine alone. Chalk it up to another mistake in my long list of mistakes.


A lot of people just can’t make a decision. So they just stay. Or make excuses. I’ll wait until the holidays are over, kid finishes school, etc. anything to not have to make a decision. No matter what. I cringe every time I hear ‘I’m fighting for my marriage’. A marriage takes two. If you have to fight for it you don’t have one. Sorry.
You never reconciled. You just stayed. Huge difference. Now you’re having heartburn. Not uncommon unfortunately.
You have yourself stuck. The only one that can keep you in limbo is yourself.


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## Marc878

loblawbobblog said:


> Her family history is a mess, but she's close with her brother and sister. I'm very close with my family, as is my wife. Here's the thing: I never told my family about her cheating in 2000. I told them we were going through a rough patch, but nothing more. Frankly, I was embarrassed by the whole thing and only told a close friend, and as I hoped to reconcile, I didn't want my family hating her. It was the wrong move emotionally for me as it made the burden of it all mine and mine alone. Chalk it up to another mistake in my long list of mistakes.


Unfortunately helping hide affairs enables bad behavior. You are correct you put it all on your back. Now you get to carry that 600lb piano around with you. It was your choice.


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## ABHale

Could it be that you never got past her cheating in the first place.


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## loblawbobblog

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## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm in the best shape of my life, doing pilates and yoga 5 times a week and only drinking beer on the weekend. My sex drive and ability to get it up are undiminished, I just can't finish. It's a weird thing.


Glad to hear that you’re in great shape. 

How has your wife reacted to your inability to finish. Does she ask what’s wrong? Is she concerned? We’ve had threads from wives who have husbands with performance issues in the sex section and from reading the comments from the women who have dealt with that issue, it does a psychological number on some of them. They think they’re losing their mojo. Boners don’t lie. Wives usually know in their gut when their husband is into them.

I have to say you keep adding a more pieces of info that paint a very negative picture of your wife. Unless there’s a caring side you’re not telling us about, she’s sounding like a cold beotch. I’m sure you probably dealt with that for a large part of your marriage but you were saying that the last few 5 to 7 years have been good. A good marriage doesn’t jive with a indifference or with the pic, which is definitely a symptom of something that is bad along the lines of her past.


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## loblawbobblog

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## A18S37K14H18

OP,

A few times now you've mentioned that you made mistakes in the past by not dealing with her affair andd confronting it etc.

Well you know you can't go back in time and unring that bell.

But you can learn fro. It and NOT make that same mistake again right now.

I don't like saying this but you have never really dealt with this. You've white knuckled it.

You also know and acknowledged that what you did back then and up until now didn't work.

Make different choices OP.

She has done incredibly cruel things and you've protected her.

You don't have to annihilate her or go nuclear on her but you've allowed her to basically skate all along, for decades even though she did cruel things to you.

There is a middle ground OP.

Terrible actions are supposed to have consequences.

I can't believe that you would be happy or want one of your children to basically ignore and rugsweep an affair by their spouse yet it's OK for you to do?

And you know its affected you. Of course it has.

Guess what? This will keeo affecting you and it will get worse as you age as dealing with stress and things isn't easier as we age but more difficult. It will take a toll on you mentally and physically. It already has but I'm talking about going forward.

We all make mistakes. We need to learn from them though. You want and exoect your children to learn from their mistakes so you need to do that too.

You NEED to deal with this OP. For your own health and well being.


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## Anastasia6

Evinrude58 said:


> Agreed. I suppose my plan wasn’t thought out well. But it would be hard not to beat what op currently lives with


Sure. I'm not implying he should stay. Though I'm not implying he should go. I'm think he needs to figure out what he wants. Certainly he has every right to leave. They also don't seem compatible. She is a cheat though we don't know if there is anything recent (no it doesn't matter if it's recent). However, we'd be fools (which this board often is) to ignore that many people do reconcile and use it to build stronger marriages.

But as I said they don't seem compatible. She wants something more and he's content as is. He is being eaten away by the secrets and the picture. So it really seems like a race to the end. Could they come together sure probably. Do I think it likely no.

I do feel strongly you are more apt to get what you want how you want if you know what it is you want and what it is you can get. For instance you can't go back in time and undo the affair or the ONS.


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## QuietRiot

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.



I don’t have a statute of limitations on lies, deceit and betrayal, but I guess many people do. I’d be interested to know her response when you ask her, “Were there more people before or after the one affair I know of?” Gaslighting, more lies, subterfuge or the classic “It was a long time ago.” would indicate what kind of person you’re currently dealing with, in which case the last 7 years of “great” is also all fake… that’s my opinion.


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## Marc878

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes I think that's true. That time period broke me, I haven't been the same since. I now know I should have let her go. Again, I don't regret my choice because our two younger kids were born after this time, but in a vacuum, I made the wrong decision.


A lot don’t realize it upfront but infidelity is a lifelong gift. Many have heartburn later.


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## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> She knows about my midlife crisis crap


Yet she doesn't have a clue that she is responsible for the crisis?


loblawbobblog said:


> And I should add, I'm no walk in the park. I'm emotionally flat most of the time, I've had numerous docs/therapists ask if I've been tested for Asperger's,


So you were the emotional opposite of the guy she was with before you met. A "safe harbor" from the drama of being with him. You didn't just become "emotionally flat", that is what she chose at the time. But that might explain somewhat her saying she needed "more".

Is your wife an alcoholic in a recovery program? Addictive personality in general?


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## loblawbobblog

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## DownByTheRiver

DownByTheRiver said:


> How old was she when she got pregnant for the first time? How long have you been together when she got pregnant for the first time? Were you married when she got pregnant for the first time?


Never did get answers to this. It can offer perspective if she got pregnant too young.


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## Divinely Favored

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm in the best shape of my life, doing pilates and yoga 5 times a week and only drinking beer on the weekend. My sex drive and ability to get it up are undiminished, I just can't finish. It's a weird thing.


Step away from the beer! As Arnold would say, "It will make you a girly mon!" Beer is hard on the testosterone. You might as well be taking estrogen suppliments. If you have to drink...drink red wine, not beer!


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## jsmart

Ha, I know it’s true but I just can’t get into wine. On a hot day, wine just can’t compare to an ice cold beer.


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## Cynthia

Please tell us exactly what addiction she is in recovery for. This was already asked. I think it's an important question in the scheme of things and what you are facing with your marriage currently.


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## loblawbobblog

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## loblawbobblog

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## DownByTheRiver

loblawbobblog said:


> She was 17 when she got pregnant by her ex. She was 23 and I was 25 when our first child was born out of wedlock. We got married two years later.


Thank you. She wasn't finished dating yet. She was having kids before her brain was even fully formed to understand the consequences of her actions, which they say happens after the age of 25. It's just a byproduct of having kids too young, I believe. Once she had that first one, she didn't really have all that much free will after that. I imagine she felt kind of trapped and like she wasn't finished exploring and also like she needed someone to get by. The very fact of someone having a baby that young is proof in itself that they were not mature enough to make good decisions or marry or to have children. That is someone not in control of their actions because they aren't mature enough.

I'm not saying this gets her absolution, but I imagine she's done some maturing since then. But if you feel like she still has a wandering eye and might enjoy being single and you'll never be able to trust her again then I would certainly set her free. It could be the best thing for both of you.


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## loblawbobblog

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## Cynthia

loblawbobblog said:


> She was 17 when she got pregnant by her ex. She was 23 and I was 25 when our first child was born out of wedlock. We got married two years later.


At your wife's current age, she will be expected to work if you divorce. You said she had a good job when you were in school. Does she have a degree? It's hard to find work, after being out of the workforce for so long. She may need retraining. All of this will impact how you decide to go.

We hear all these stories about life-long alimony, but that doesn't mean she isn't required to work. It means that you have to contribute to her maintenance, not that you have to be her sole maintenance. If you divorce her, I recommend that you try to get her into school to refresh her skills and prepare her to enter the work force. The better job she has, the better it is for both of you.

I think the reason you never got past her affair is that she was hiding the other liaisons from you. Whether you knew it or not, she was not connecting to you and doing what was necessary to have a healthy marriage. Do you feel like something has been nagging at you for all these years? It seems like it, because you went through her journal.

If you rug sweep, you'll never be at peace. This has to be addressed to be healthy. I don't think it's necessary to tell her that you read her journal. She doesn't have to know how you found out, only that you did, and that you don't know whether you want to remain married. I don't advocate hiding things from one's spouse, but when a spouse is lying and hiding things, I don't think it's useful to tell them where you got the information. Just refuse to respond to her questions about how you know, even if she says you must have read her journal. If she says that, I'd say, "You wrote about it in your journal!? Seriously? Show me!"


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## Cynthia

loblawbobblog said:


> I don't think 23 is especially young to start having kids. In fact, it's the national average for women. I don't think she has a wandering eye, but she has used infidelity to get out of situations, with me and with others. However, she's no longer like that. She's truly a different person in that regard since getting sober.


I agree that 23 isn't too young to have children. There are pros and cons to starting a family early and to waiting until later. The brain may not be fully developed until 25, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work until then.

How has she used infidelity to her advantage?

How long has she been sober?


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## DownByTheRiver

loblawbobblog said:


> I don't think 23 is especially young to start having kids. In fact, it's the national average for women. I don't think she has a wandering eye, but she has used infidelity to get out of situations, with me and with others. However, she's no longer like that. She's truly a different person in that regard since getting sober.


You said 17.


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## TexasMom1216

loblawbobblog said:


> I don't think 23 is especially young to start having kids. In fact, it's the national average for women. I don't think she has a wandering eye, but she has used infidelity to get out of situations, with me and with others. However, she's no longer like that. She's truly a different person in that regard since getting sober.


It seems insanely young to me. Your brain isn’t done growing and you’re responsible for a child? Maybe I was just immature. (Pretty sure that’s a big part of it 🤪)


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## loblawbobblog

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## loblawbobblog

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## DownByTheRiver

loblawbobblog said:


> She was 17 when she got pregnant by her ex, but she got an abortion. Sorry for the confusion.


23 is still an immature brain. It's certainly better than 17. But you said it was out of wedlock so I'm still assuming it wasn't a planned pregnancy and that she might have gone on dating and exploring if that hadn't happened. But anyway you said she's more mature now. You just have to decide if you can trust her now or not. If you really don't think you can, that's going to be a miserable life. She may be perfectly settled in now but I have no way of knowing that. Anyway I wish you the best of luck on it.


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## TexasMom1216

loblawbobblog said:


> She is finishing her degree next month and will start looking for a job, most likely in the same industry she was in before becoming a SAHM. The timing of all this irks because our household income is about to double with her working, which is a life changing amount for us. I know money isn't everything, but goddammit, we worked so hard to get here.


I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. You deserve better. Definitely wait til she starts working so she doesn’t take half your stuff if you decide to end it.


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## Cynthia

loblawbobblog said:


> She is finishing her degree next month and will start looking for a job, most likely in the same industry she was in before becoming a SAHM. The timing of all this irks because our household income is about to double with her working, which is a life changing amount for us. I know money isn't everything, but goddammit, we worked so hard to get here.


This is sad, but also good. It gives you many more options.
I'm going to go against the tide here and suggest that you work through this with your therapist and wait until she is finished with school before you make any big decisions. It's important that she finish school and get back into the job market. This may have happened 20+ years ago, but you just found this out. This is new to you and you need time to think and work through this. I'm not, however, recommending that you wait a long time to confront her with this information and your need to work through your trauma. Otherwise, you will be living in a sort of alternate reality. That's not going to help you at all.
I do recommend that you get the PDF on the Sexual Basement. When your spouse is carrying on a whole other life apart from you, something doesn't sit right. It messes with how you think until you get proof. It has far reaching repercussions. The PDF has information about how this causes a specific kind of PTSD. It will help you understand what is going on in your mind and why you are feeling the way you do.



TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. You deserve better. Definitely wait til she starts working so she doesn’t take half your stuff if you decide to end it.


All that they own will be divided in half should they divorce, whether she has a job or not. It's what happens regarding anything he makes after the divorce that is at stake. If she's making the same as him, they he will have little to no alimony, but will have to share the retirement funds that he has accumulated pre-divorce, because those are joint funds, just like a bank account is.


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## Diana7

DownByTheRiver said:


> Thank you. She wasn't finished dating yet. She was having kids before her brain was even fully formed to understand the consequences of her actions, which they say happens after the age of 25. It's just a byproduct of having kids too young, I believe. Once she had that first one, she didn't really have all that much free will after that. I imagine she felt kind of trapped and like she wasn't finished exploring and also like she needed someone to get by. The very fact of someone having a baby that young is proof in itself that they were not mature enough to make good decisions or marry or to have children. That is someone not in control of their actions because they aren't mature enough.
> 
> I'm not saying this gets her absolution, but I imagine she's done some maturing since then. But if you feel like she still has a wandering eye and might enjoy being single and you'll never be able to trust her again then I would certainly set her free. It could be the best thing for both of you.


Having kids that young was the norm until the last 30-40 or so years in our history. I think young people to day are far more immature. I had my first at age 21 as did my two best friends at the time. All kids turned out very well.


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## DownByTheRiver

Diana7 said:


> Having kids that young was the norm until the last 30-40 or so years in our history. I think young people to day are far more immature. I had my first at age 21 as did my two best friends at the time. All kids turned out very well.


The age of birth control changed all that.


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## Diana7

loblawbobblog said:


> She is finishing her degree next month and will start looking for a job, most likely in the same industry she was in before becoming a SAHM. The timing of all this irks because our household income is about to double with her working, which is a life changing amount for us. I know money isn't everything, but goddammit, we worked so hard to get here.


At least neither if you would be short of money in that case if you divorce. 

Op, I just don't get how you can keep this from her. Hasn't she noticed you are keeping something from her? If it was my husband I would know immediately if he had something on his mind.


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## TexasMom1216

DownByTheRiver said:


> The age of birth control changed all that.


I suspect it's less that women were more mature back then and more that they had no choice. On the whole, I mean, women were the same back then but their lives were dictated to them. I had a lot of problems from my childhood that made me unfit at that age. But women with healthy childhoods are able to choose now, and that's a good thing.


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## Diana7

DownByTheRiver said:


> The age of birth control changed all that.


We had birth control when I had my children. Me and my friends all planned them.


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## DownByTheRiver

TexasMom1216 said:


> I suspect it's less that women were more mature back then and more that they had no choice. On the whole, I mean, women were the same back then but their lives were dictated to them. I had a lot of problems from my childhood that made me unfit at that age. But women with healthy childhoods are able to choose now, and that's a good thing.


It's the best thing that's ever happened to women, but teens and young women are still vulnerable because they just don't know what they're getting into and don't always know how to prevent it. And you could say the same for young men.


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## loblawbobblog

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## DownByTheRiver

Diana7 said:


> We had birth control when I had my children. Me and my friends all planned them.


Mine too. But you know you can't depend on the young brain to know enough to even do that or to have access to birth control other than condoms. It's just always been a problem. It has long range repercussions that there's no way they could foresee at that age.


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## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> I suspect it's less that women were more mature back then and more that they had no choice. On the whole, I mean, women were the same back then but their lives were dictated to them. I had a lot of problems from my childhood that made me unfit at that age. But women with healthy childhoods are able to choose now, and that's a good thing.


Of course we had a choice. We married younger and choose to have children younger. Women in their 20's are very fertile and it's their prime time to have children.
We were definitely more mature, as were my parents generation before me. We bought our first home when I was 20, worked from 18, married at 19, baby at 21, unheard of today to cope with all this adult stuff so young.


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## Diana7

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes, the alternate reality aspect of this is untenable for me. I'm living with this knowledge while she's living thinking I don't know. And yes, our retirement funds, and I say "our" intentionally because it was a team effort, will be split in half which is a major hit.


Thankfully though you will both be earning a good wage and can presumably save and pay more in.


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## loblawbobblog

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## ABHale

She wasn’t finished dating is a bull crap excuse. My wife and I married at 19/20 and neither one of us have cheated or regret it. I know several couples as well that married young. 

OP’s wife cheated because she had no morals or integrity.


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## ABHale

DownByTheRiver said:


> You said 17.


That was when she got pregnant with her ex.


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## Diana7

loblawbobblog said:


> I'll be making the same as I do now and able to contribute the same. Would she also contribute to the same retirement account or her own? I'm clueless on this, guess I should find out. We were set to be quite comfortable in retirement 8-10 years from now, but with half I'd need to work longer and live on less. Ugh.


She could easily set up one of her own as well to pay in for 10 years.


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## A18S37K14H18

Diana7 said:


> Of course we had a choice. We married younger and choose to have children younger. Women in their 20's are very fertile and it's their prime time to have children.
> We were definitely more mature, as were my parents generation before me. We bought our first home when I was 20, worked from 18, married at 19, baby at 21, unheard of today to cope with all this adult stuff so young.


My first husband and I are in our mid 50's. We were born in the 60's and married in the 80's.

We met when we were both 14 and dated all 4 years of high school and went to college together. We lived together in an apartment our last two years of college and we were engaged then too, for over two years before we got married.

We married when we were both 21 after graduating from college. We'd been together 8 years by then.

We bought a condo when we were both 22 years old. Life was different then. We couldn't have done that today. Our 3 children can't do that sadly.

Things were different 30 plus years ago.

We were both 29 years old when the first of our 3 children were born.

We were both 29, 32 and 34 when our children were born.


OP, I get money is involved as it almost always is.

Keep in mind that you have not been happy and money won't make you happy either.

It's a factor but it shouldn't be the end all.

Take care of yourself OP.

The past can't be changed.

Can your wife be what you want and need in a spouse going forward? I mean really?

Does your wife want to be that with and for you?

It doesnt seem like the two of you have ever had the kind of marriage you wanted. Do you have enough together to be what you both should be for each other?

She seems to want more from you, something different from who and what you are.

Will the two of you have to choose to settle in order to remain with each other?

It seems as if she has settled all along with you as she wanted something different in a partner.

If she is like this going forward can you stay with her knowing she still wants you to be something more and different than who and what you are?


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## Sfort

loblawbobblog said:


> I'll be making the same as I do now and able to contribute the same. Would she also contribute to the same retirement account or her own? I'm clueless on this, guess I should find out. We were set to be quite comfortable in retirement 8-10 years from now, but with half I'd need to work longer and live on less. Ugh.


She will probably get half at your divorce, and you will not get any of her (new) retirement account. So, that means you need to hook up with a woman who HAS a nice retirement account.  Problem solved.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

Diana7 said:


> Having kids that young was the norm until the last 30-40 or so years in our history. I think young people to day are far more immature. I had my first at age 21 as did my two best friends at the time. All kids turned out very well.


I had my daughter at 21 too and my son in my late 30's.


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## Rus47

DownByTheRiver said:


> She was having kids before her brain was even fully formed to understand the consequences of her actions, which they say happens after the age of 25





loblawbobblog said:


> I don't think 23 is especially young to start having kids.


I guess it is just different opinions. FWIW my wife and I had two by time she was 23, and it was on purpose for both of us. We both knew the "consequences" of our actions and we had kids early and close together in our marriage by design. Maybe our brains weren't fully formed, I had a college degree and had been working for a large corporation awhile by that time. But what do I know? 

My mother had two before age 25. Her mother had four before 25. 

In the days before cheap and reliable birth control, when child mortality was much higher, women routinely had kids in their teenage years. Humans had to have a lot of births before the baby factory dried up just to insure survival of at least replacement progeny.


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## Imnobodynew

I disagree with the whole age thing. I think it's more issues and bad coping mechanisms that never get addressed coming out of our childhood. At least it was for my wife and me. It's not really a chemical thing as it is a coping or moral thing.

I can agree though that many people at 19-25 don't know what they want; or know how to cope with life as a mature healthy adults. I think many of us as young adults were not taught or prepared for life. Our parents were too busy. Combine that with raging hormones and you get a toxic mess. 
Some of us knew instinctually what to do. While others really needed to be taught, and they grew in their selfishness. I think this boils down to the individual though, not age or chemicals.


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## DownByTheRiver

With women and having babies, it varies. Many do not know what they are getting into at all and don't realize that is the end of life as they knew it. Others grew up taking care of younger siblings and know exactly what they were getting into and react accordingly IF they have access to birth control if they want it. Except for a brief time in the 70s, underage women could not go get their own birth control without their parents signing off on it. I don't agree with that because most teens are going to hide that they're having sex from their parents for a reason. But condoms, use them, you guys, especially on young ladies who might not be ready.


----------



## Cynthia

loblawbobblog said:


> I'll be making the same as I do now and able to contribute the same. Would she also contribute to the same retirement account or her own? I'm clueless on this, guess I should find out. We were set to be quite comfortable in retirement 8-10 years from now, but with half I'd need to work longer and live on less. Ugh.


You can look into all of this to get a good idea of how it all works. It depends on the types of accounts you have, and various other factors, how it is handled. After divorce, you would have separate, individual retirement accounts. I believe any IRAs or similar accounts would be split between you. If you have retirement benefits, a pension, that would all be taken into account regarding separate maintenance. With her working, you may not have to pay any alimony, especially since she will have many years left until retirement. A lot can happen between now and then.


----------



## Marc878

ABHale said:


> She wasn’t finished dating is a bull crap excuse. My wife and I married at 19/20 and neither one of us have cheated or regret it. I know several couples as well that married young.
> 
> OP’s wife cheated because she had no morals or integrity.


Yep, same here.
There is no excuse for bad behavior. She was old enough to know right from wrong.


----------



## TAMAT

Loblaw,

One thing which stuck out for me was that your marriage was rocky until 7 years ago.

Which makes me think she was bitter that she had to give up OM and resentful.

Then 7 years ago she stopped hating you and started liking you, but didn't start loving you romantically.


If I were to make a timeline of my relationship with my W it would be similar.

Dating - Loved me

OM1 - Fell in love with him, felt nothing for me.

OM1 - Broke up resented and hated me for her loss.

Marriage - had reservations I think had a fantasy of divorcing me and finding happiness with OM again, but pregnant and family pressure.

I really think she thought of OM when she had sex with me throughout our marriage.

20 years later started liking me, possibly maturity, possibly that I made an effort to treat her better.

30 years still likes me but the romantic love never came back.


----------



## SunCMars

Unhelpful post deleted.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

@loblawbobblog has she been an addict your entire relationship up until just recently? It sounds that way and your whole marriage has probably been hell.

I think she is just a really messed up woman. Or maybe was a messed up woman. For sure I think you were always her stability, but the question is, has she ever really loved you?

You've said she has told you she wants "more". I take that to mean you have never been able to give her that rush and excitement she wants. Now that she is getting sober she may not need that anymore, but is that what you want? A woman that has come to terms with settling for you. 

Then there is the picture. Is she still longing for the old days? Or could it be part of her path to sobriety having her reflect on past immoral acts?

I can't imagine money is enough to make it worth all this pain she is causing you.


----------



## ABHale

She was pregnant and engaged to be married at 17 to her ex.

OP and his wife didn’t get together and have a kid until she was 23 I believe. That was 6 years for her to decide if she wanted to start a family.

To blame any of this on guys going around having sex is hilarious. It takes two to tango, if a girl doesn’t want to get pregnant there are ways to prevent that. Even back in the 80’s when I was in high school. Girls were having sex and very few got pregnant. I believe there were only 6 that I know of my entire time in high school. Hell there are 5 to 10 an year when my kids were in high school. Even 2 in my daughter’s middle school. Girls are getting pregnant because they want to now a days.

So let’s not make excuses for OP’s cheating wife. There is never an excuse to cheat on your partner.


----------



## PieceOfSky

@loblawbobblog ,

Your state may not regularly award/require alimony, in circumstances like yours. Iirc, my state has only temporary spousal support under very specific circumstances, and otherwise nothing.


----------



## Diana7

ABHale said:


> She wasn’t finished dating is a bull crap excuse. My wife and I married at 19/20 and neither one of us have cheated or regret it. I know several couples as well that married young.
> 
> OP’s wife cheated because she had no morals or integrity.


Agreed. 
I think it's a fallacy that we must all date for many years or we will regret it or that we aren't ready to marry and have children till we are much older. 
It's only very recently that people have multiple partners and often don't marry or have kids till their 30's. 
The longest and happiest marriages I know are between couple who met v young, who were each other's only partner and who married and had children at a young age. Most now married for 45-50 years. 
No affairs. Great kids/grandkids. Happy people.


----------



## Diana7

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> I had my daughter at 21 too and my son in my late 30's.


Mine were born when I was 21, 24 and 29. All my friends at the time were similar ages when they had their kids, it's was normal then.


----------



## syhoybenden

loblawbobblog said:


> Alcohol and pills.


Sounds like she's been self medicating for some stressor in her life.

Something she won't talk about.


----------



## Rus47

Diana7 said:


> The longest and happiest marriages I know are between couple who met v young, who were each other's only partner and who married and had children at a young age. Most now married for 45-50 years.
> No affairs. Great kids/grandkids. Happy people.


That be us


----------



## jsmart

syhoybenden said:


> Sounds like she's been self medicating for some stressor in her life.
> 
> Something she won't talk about.


Most likely the stressor was having an abortion and ending an engagement at 17 to a guy who was addicted to drugs, mistreated her, and yet she was still in love with. 

But let’s not forget the other potential self induced stressor. Being a married mother of a young child but going out and having a sex with a string of strange men. The number of which must have been significant or she would have written the number down.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ABHale said:


> She wasn’t finished dating is a bull crap excuse. My wife and I married at 19/20 and neither one of us have cheated or regret it. I know several couples as well that married young.
> 
> OP’s wife cheated because she had no morals or integrity.


Same, we married at 18/21. 32 years later all is great, zero regret.


----------



## jsmart

TAMAT said:


> Loblaw,
> 
> One thing which stuck out for me was that your marriage was rocky until 7 years ago.
> 
> Which makes me think she was bitter that she had to give up OM and resentful.
> 
> Then 7 years ago she stopped hating you and started liking you, but didn't start loving you romantically.
> 
> 
> If I were to make a timeline of my relationship with my W it would be similar.
> 
> Dating - Loved me
> 
> OM1 - Fell in love with him, felt nothing for me.
> 
> OM1 - Broke up resented and hated me for her loss.
> 
> Marriage - had reservations I think had a fantasy of divorcing me and finding happiness with OM again, but pregnant and family pressure.
> 
> I really think she thought of OM when she had sex with me throughout our marriage.
> 
> 20 years later started liking me, possibly maturity, possibly that I made an effort to treat her better.
> 
> 30 years still likes me but the romantic love never came back.


I really agree with your hypothesized timeline. Even before he started this 2nd thread revealing all of these betrayals, I strongly believed there was adultery in this marriage. His description of his wife’s “love” was of a (F)WW who had detached from her husband and was going with the flow. What happened 7 years ago that made her soften her heart towards her BH? 

I also agree that she stopped despising him and started to like him 7 years ago but I would not say she’s romantically in love with him. That is why his soul has not rested since the affair. Deep in his gut he knew there was more and when he found her journal entries about having a string ONS’ during that year after ending her affair, it made sense.

Sadly months later, he hasn’t confronted her because he is frozen in fear with losing even this lukewarm marriage. He has muscled through so much disrespect and years of disdain from an ungrateful WW so he could keep the family together.

Having this cloud has deeply affected him these past few months causing a rift between his wife and him. Could the distance he’s displaying these past few months have caused her to start to want more? Is that the reason she’s now looking at pictures of her first love? women do not do well with dealing with a needy weak husband. I don’t use the word weak to belittle him but as a description of what he is most likely coming across to his wife.

She thinks he’s going through a midlife crisis that is even impacting his ability to perform. She has no idea what is really weighing him down. That’s why it was a mistake to not confront when he found the journals and it’s a mistake to talk about waiting until she and the kid graduate and then waiting until she gets a job. What next, wait until she’s starts hanging out with party crowd coworkers?

@loblawbobblog. Stop postponing. Confront her on your findings. It doesn’t have to lead to divorce. Fighting for you Is fighting for your marriage. She will respect you more for being straightforward instead of vaguely talking about midlife crisis.


----------



## syhoybenden

jsmart said:


> Most likely the stressor was having an abortion and ending an engagement at 17 to a guy who was addicted to drugs, mistreated her, and yet she was still in love with.
> 
> But let’s not forget the other potential self induced stressor. Being a married mother of a young child but going out and having a sex with a string of strange men. The number of which must have been significant or she would have written the number down.


The smart money's on number two.


----------



## MattMatt

Blondilocks said:


> There was nothing snarky about it. But, if you say so, it must be true.


*I suggest you back off now. And yes, this IS a warning from a Moderator.

Lose the attitude. *


----------



## re16

Time to confront, her reaction will mean everything. If she is honest and over time proves remorseful, maybe there is a chance to reconcile, if she is still lying, in the present… you know what to do.

I think OP is avoiding the confront because he knows she will lie.


----------



## olk

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.





loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.





loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.


Sorry, OP. People should come to terms with the two laws of reconciliation after infidelity:

Betrayed spouse will never forget the the pain caused by affair. Betrayer will never forget the wonderful time she (he) have spent with her (his) lover (lovers, even in one night stands).
Betrayed spouse will never forget that her (his) life is failure (more or less). Betrayer, no matter what she (he) says, will always believe that she (he) got everything she (he) wanted from life: pleasant memories of unforgettable moments of passion with AP (APs) and a decent safe family life with her (his) spouse and with respect from the people beyond the family (it is better not to talk about the betrayed spouse and kids).
That's why people can "reconcile" (they say so on the forums) 3, 5, 10, 20, 30 years - until death. They will always have a thorn in their soul, which will constantly cause annoyance and regret from time to time The best result that can be achieved at the reconciliation is to come to put up with affair (affairs) and find peace or indifference (what happens most often). Let's ask ourselves honestly, was it worth it? But we voluntarily bottle ourselves with the best intentions (children, family, "she (he) is the love of my life", etc.). It's so sad.


----------



## Cynthia

What a pessimistic way to look at things, @olk. I know people that cheated on their spouse who look back on it with disgust, shame, and pain. Not often, but some people do repent. When they do, their entire view of the situation changes. It has to. They have to look back on their behavior and see how disgusting it was or they can't change. People can change. Not often, but sometimes they do.


----------



## Casual Observer

Cynthia said:


> What a pessimistic way to look at things, @olk. I know people that cheated on their spouse who look back on it with disgust, shame, and pain. Not often, but some people do repent. When they do, their entire view of the situation changes. It has to. They have to look back on their behavior and see how disgusting it was or they can't change. People can change. Not often, but sometimes they do.


Unfortunately, some betrayers become a bit confused and think that the pain they feel is proof of their willingness to improve and become a better spouse, when in fact it’s annoyance they got caught and have to deal with it.

if you could get an HONEST answer to just this one question- Do you wish you hadn’t been caught? I think that would tell everything you need to know.


----------



## Cynthia

Casual Observer said:


> if you could get an HONEST answer to just this one question- Do you wish you hadn’t been caught? I think that would tell everything you need to know.


Yes. This is a great question.

I think the best answer is, "no," I wish I had come clean immediately and stopped my horrid behavior, so you didn't have to catch me.


----------



## loblawbobblog

.


----------



## Cynthia

loblawbobblog said:


> That's the best answer but it's not the answer most cheating spouses would honestly give. Most, if they are genuinely glad to still be in the marriage, would simply wish the affair would have played out and ended without their spouse ever knowing. They'd have this memory of an external relationship that they do not regret while still retaining their lifelong partner in marriage. There's a reason they're called cake eaters.


I agree that most do not truly repent.


----------



## ElOtro

Cynthia said:


> Not often, but some people do repent.





Cynthia said:


> Not often, but sometimes they do.


Is the "not often" what makes it true.


----------



## Sfort

olk said:


> Sorry, OP. People should come to terms with the two laws of reconciliation after infidelity:
> 
> Betrayed spouse will never forget the the pain caused by affair. Betrayer will never forget the wonderful time she (he) have spent with her (his) lover (lovers, even in one night stands).
> Betrayed spouse will never forget that her (his) life is failure (more or less). Betrayer, no matter what she (he) says, will always believe that she (he) got everything she (he) wanted from life: pleasant memories of unforgettable moments of passion with AP (APs) and a decent safe family life with her (his) spouse and with respect from the people beyond the family (it is better not to talk about the betrayed spouse and kids).
> That's why people can "reconcile" (they say so on the forums) 3, 5, 10, 20, 30 years - until death. They will always have a thorn in their soul, which will constantly cause annoyance and regret from time to time The best result that can be achieved at the reconciliation is to come to put up with affair (affairs) and find peace or indifference (what happens most often). Let's ask ourselves honestly, was it worth it? But we voluntarily bottle ourselves with the best intentions (children, family, "she (he) is the love of my life", etc.). It's so sad.


Even though his outlook seems dismal, @olk is on the money. When WW was having sex with OM, she was enjoying it and having a lot of fun and excitement. After the fact, guilt creeps in, and true remorse can happen, but at the time, it was all about the fun. That's what makes statements like, "It didn't mean anything," or "I didn't enjoy it", impossible to believe. This post is actually hard to read.


----------



## loblawbobblog

.


----------



## Diana7

loblawbobblog said:


> Yep. Get this: our couple's counselor was a woman who was so obviously on my wife's side it was ridiculous. At one point, she asked my wife if the sex with her AP was good. My wife said she didn't see the point in that question, but yes, the sex was good. I sat there in disbelief at the counselor's bias. My wife told me later that after that session, the counselor took her aside as she was leaving and asked my wife if she had a vibrator, and if not, she should get one.
> 
> My point is, yeah the cheating was fun while it lasted and those are memories my wife has for the rest of her life and has most likely thought about fondly many times over the years, even if she does regret the hurt it caused me. That's what galls. She made sexual memories without me during our marriage.


Does she know that something is up with you right now? I find it hard to believe that she can't tell something is going on.


----------



## Evinrude58

Marriage counselors are useless in most cases, damaging in a bunch, and helpful in very few—- jmo.
OP the question the counselor asked in front of you—— disgusting. Might as well have stabbed you in the eye with a dull spoon.
Of course it was good or it wouldn’t have kept happening. I’m rarely if ever for taking back a cheater. It’s just unwise. You know at that point that your value to them is very, very low. 
a spouse should value their mate higher.


----------



## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> She made sexual memories without me during our marriage.


What's worse is she made memories for you too. Bad ones, mind movies. And the so called counselor helped to make that happen. And you paid her to provide that service 

Did WW ever do anything to prove she regretted the hurt she caused you? I am guessing not. Words, just words.


----------



## loblawbobblog

.


----------



## jlg07

loblawbobblog said:


> Yep. Get this: our couple's counselor was a woman who was so obviously on my wife's side it was ridiculous. At one point, she asked my wife if the sex with her AP was good. My wife said she didn't see the point in that question, but yes, the sex was good. I sat there in disbelief at the counselor's bias. My wife told me later that after that session, the counselor took her aside as she was leaving and asked my wife if she had a vibrator, and if not, she should get one.
> 
> My point is, yeah the cheating was fun while it lasted and those are memories my wife has for the rest of her life and has most likely thought about fondly many times over the years, even if she does regret the hurt it caused me. That's what galls. She made sexual memories without me during our marriage.


I HOPE that you got rid of that counselor.


----------



## Sfort

loblawbobblog said:


> I was headed for a midlife crisis before finding out about her one stands


Do you care to elaborate?


----------



## Diana7

loblawbobblog said:


> She knows I'm going through something, I was headed for a midlife crisis before finding out about her one stands, that revelation just amplified it.


So has she asked what is up?


----------



## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> She knows I'm going through something, I was headed for a midlife crisis before finding out about her one stands, that revelation just amplified it.


You keep alluding to having some kind of midlife crisis but have not elaborated on what is the issue. You rug swept her affair and niced her for over a decade before she soften her heart towards you. Having a “good “ marriage for the past 7 years has not assuaged your restless soul. Your wife committed an egregious betrayal against you and never paid for it. Kind of a “no justice, no peace” Like a detective working a cold case , you have not given up on looking for the details. 

After having to white knuckle through your wife’s betrayal to keep the family intact, you find yourself in a lukewarm marriage that your gut told you has only endured because you grew the family and kept her home as a SAHM. Now you’re facing empty nest stage at the same time that she’s finishing her schooling to go back into the work world. So all of these years of eating this sh!t sandwich, you still find yourself facing the possible demise of your marriage, your fear of this leaps of the page .

To conquer this fear, You have to get everything out. If she loves you, she will want to help sooth your crushed soul. She may actually be relieved to get everything out in the open. The possibility of starting over with no secrets may finally allow a REAL reconciliation. Having such a secret has probably not allowed her to be all in. It definitely has impacted your ability to be all in emotionally, hence her desire for “more” from you.


----------



## jparistotle

loblawbobblog said:


> Yep. Get this: our couple's counselor was a woman who was so obviously on my wife's side it was ridiculous. At one point, she asked my wife if the sex with her AP was good. My wife said she didn't see the point in that question, but yes, the sex was good. I sat there in disbelief at the counselor's bias. My wife told me later that after that session, the counselor took her aside as she was leaving and asked my wife if she had a vibrator, and if not, she should get one.
> 
> My point is, yeah the cheating was fun while it lasted and those are memories my wife has for the rest of her life and has most likely thought about fondly many times over the years, even if she does regret the hurt it caused me. That's what galls. She made sexual memories without me during our marriage.


If it were me I would go to the next counseling session. Sit down and as soon as the session started, stand up call the counselor a fraud, tell her you are going to report her, demand your money back and state any counselor who would ask a couple in counseling if the sex was great with the AP was only getting themselves off. Tell screw her, why would you care and leave. Then make their life a living hell as a counselor.

That question is irrelevant to reconciliation. Then honestly tell them the best sex story you have ever had not with your wife. Never look back


----------



## A18S37K14H18

A success at alk costs marriage isn't a successful marriage.

Many want so badly to keep a marriage intact that it causes them not to do things they should have done periodically throughout the course of their marriage.

Simply dealing with things doesn't mean having to end said marriage

Dealing with things actually strenghtens and improves the marriage.

Like most things in life, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Problems not only don't get better if left alone, they usually get worse. 

And don't forget the unintended consequences iof leaving a problem without addressing and resolving it. There are far too many of said consequences to list.


----------



## MattMatt

*OK, folks! Please keep this on topic.*


----------



## SnowToArmPits

Hi OP,

This is eating you up. Confront your wife about it all. Explain to her how angry you are, how much resentment you have.

You've been putting this off a long, long time. 

You've spent your marriage thinking about others, that's admirable in being a good father. But now isn't the time to ignore what's important to you. From reading your posts this is dominating your thoughts, it's the most important thing in your life. So do something about it. No one can do this for you.

Good luck to you mate.


----------



## aine

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.


This is awful. I would confront her, I hope you took a photo of the evidence. She has no right to privacy of any sort cause she got you to reconcile under false pretenses. What the hell was she thinking? You need therapy for yourself, tell her you have not decided whether you want to walk away or work on the marriage again, considering the first times was all lies. Tell her you cannot lie down with someone, be with someone who could easily lie to you and build something on a false foundation. Cheaters are the worst of humanity.


----------



## Sfort

SnowToArmPits said:


> Hi OP,
> 
> This is eating you up. Confront your wife about it all. Explain to her how angry you are, how much resentment you have.
> 
> You've been putting this off a long, long time.
> 
> You've spent your marriage thinking about others, that's admirable in being a good father. But now isn't the time to ignore what's important to you. From reading your posts this is dominating your thoughts, it's the most important thing in your life. So do something about it. No one can do this for you.
> 
> Good luck to you mate.


If he follows your advice, what should he expect as an outcome from doing so?


----------



## SnowToArmPits

Sfort said:


> If he follows your advice, what should he expect as an outcome from doing so?


He's obviously quite unhappy in his marriage, as his long time wife this is her chance to try to make it better.

We don't know if she will do that once confronted, but we know she never will if she isn't confronted.

It's quite a mess and there's no guarantees on the outcome, other than an unhappy marriage for him, anger and resentment if he does nothing.

He has a long term marriage, he's in crisis with it. Talk to your wife, you're supposed to be partners. If she cares for you she'll work with you to try to make things better. If she doesn't - it's decision time for you OP, To carry on as is, or not.


----------



## jsmart

Sfort said:


> If he follows your advice, what should he expect as an outcome from doing so?


If he truthfully lays out all his anger, fear, and hurt , they can finally have a chance at being real with each other. If she has truly not betrayed him again since those ONS’ 22 years ago, I suspect that @loblawbobblog may be able to move forward but only if he sees REAL remorse for what she’s done. The same way that he has not been able to be fully in emotionally, she has held back too. Having those betrayals in her head has served as a barrier for her too. 

My concern is what changed 7 years ago that she softened her heart towards her husband? Was it ending an affair? It had to be something major for her to make such a turnaround. I’m hoping it was something positive like a spiritual awakening. Of course, it could have been seeing a close friend’s family implode due to adultery. It really would be helpful for OP to shed light on what happened 7 years ago.


----------



## Lostinthought61

I would have words with that counselor and the last of those words would be "go to hell" all she is doing is supporting her cheating. Time to tell your wife you are ready to start living for yourself and tell your wife that thanks to her she has destroyed any meaning your vows meant.


----------



## re16

Sfort said:


> If he follows your advice, what should he expect as an outcome from doing so?


The outcome will be he will know if she is honest with him now 22 years later, or if she still lying to him. If she tells the truth and wants to put the work in to actually reconcile, he'll know he has an option to do so...

I suspect he is scared to confront, because he knows her, and that she will likely deny it all... and then he will have to face the fact that his wife _*is and always was*_ dishonest toward him.


----------



## re16

jsmart said:


> You keep alluding to having some kind of midlife crisis but have not elaborated on what is the issue.


I'm also curious by what he means by midlife crisis.

It might just be that he is like many others that rugswept an early affair, and over time they come to release how bad it was and suddenly want to remove themselves from that relationship.

If a midlife crisis means standing up for yourself, and finding someone that actually cares about you.... then you should go that route.....crisis away...


----------



## jsmart

re16 said:


> The outcome will be he will know if she is honest with him now 22 years later, or if she still lying to him. If she tells the truth and wants to put the work in to actually reconcile, he'll know he has an option to do so...
> 
> I suspect he is scared to confront, because he knows her, and that she will likely deny it all... and then he will have to face the fact that his wife _*is and always was*_ dishonest toward him.


Chances are she may deny out of fear but once confronted with the evidence, she may finally be relieved to get it all out. As F’d up as she’s been for years, I’m sure There’s a level of love she has for him. It most likely is not the “in love “ type but they raised 3 kids and I’m sure they had many good times through the years so there’s no doubt that some love exist.

With OP carrying the weight of his discovery, he has most likely seemed distant and moody. Since she doesn’t know the cause, she may be tired of it and longing for a connection, hence the pic. Big secrets cause a rift in any marriage. He’s carrying around hurt, anger, and fear while she’s been carrying guilt for so long that it has just been suppressed into a new norm. 

He needs to get it all out there. That’s the only way to break through this logjam. If he just lets this continue to fester, it will be her who breaks the impasse but I suspect it will be in a negative direction because she thinks he’s just being his usual unfeeling self, not that he’s dying inside because of what he discovered.


----------



## Asterix

I know I'm going against the grain here. I do have a couple of questions though.

How long before your wife finishes her coursework and starts working? 
Are you in a "at fault" state?
What is it that you really want to do regarding her multiple instances of infidelity?

The thing is once you confront, then the horse is out of the barn. Depending on the answers to the questions above, you may want to wait till she gets a job and establishes an earning pattern. You can also establish that you have helped her through her schooling . The idea is that you don't need to have a huge expense if she demonstrates that she has earning potential. So, your part of the expense will be reduced accordingly. 

It is going to be difficult to keep it all in and wait for the right time, but please do consider it as an option. In the mean time, please talk to a family law attorney and get all your ducks in a row and find out where you stand financially and custody-wise. Schedule regular therapist sessions. Preferably a therapist that specializes in infidelity.


----------



## re16

jsmart said:


> Chances are she may deny out of fear but once confronted with the evidence, she may finally be relieved to get it all out. As F’d up as she’s been for years, I’m sure There’s a level of love she has for him.


Agreed. And I also think what @Asterix is saying has merit.

My strategy would be to directly ask her: "when we were in counseling, after your affair, did you have other affairs or one nights stands?" (BTW, what is the plural version of ONS ... ONSs?)

Regardless, of her answer to that, I would not provide the evidence yet.... just more of straight yes or no question / answer at this point....

If he knows she is lying, then start preparing for D, getting ducks in a row, this likely won't be ready for prime time until mid summer when she has a job and proves earning potential.

Maybe it takes him a while to be ready to drop the actual D papers on her and present the evidence, but in terms of waiting 22 years already, that is a rounding error.

I would want to know what her response is though to a direct 'did you do this' question, like right now.... but if he waits to confront, the whole process takes many months longer...


----------



## Evinrude58

I don’t think he should confront. He doesn’t really want to leave, and she’s going to lie like a rug and gaslight and convince him it was all a mental breakdown years ago and she never wanted to hurt him and she wanted to tell him but was trying to save him the pain, blah blah blah.

OP’s wife is a known liar and has also shown she is willing to take her stuff to the grave.
Even considering that she MIGHT tell the truth is illogical.

OP needs to see an attorney, or figure out a way to choke down a basketball sized poo sandwich that we all know is impossible to do and be happy.

There’s no easy solution here, and expecting a lying cheat to help him heal is an exercise in futility.

OP conjuring up a magnum Green Lantern style Divorce fist is the only thing that will bring him some peace. And even that peace will be torture to achieve at first. The self inflicted pain that comes with giving consequences to a cheater by divorcing them—- it’s too hard for a lot of people to bear.

I’d compare it to having to amputate one’s own gangrenous leg in order to save their own life.


----------



## jsmart

@loblawbobblog , for your wife to have made huge change 7 years ago, something major must have happened? What happened 7 years ago in your marriage or lives? Did you guys start going to church? Did your financial picture improve significantly? Was there a major loss in her family? Did old boyfriend get married? It had to be something significant? Help us help you by shedding some light on this.


----------



## loblawbobblog

re16 said:


> The outcome will be he will know if she is honest with him now 22 years later, or if she still lying to him. If she tells the truth and wants to put the work in to actually reconcile, he'll know he has an option to do so...
> 
> I suspect he is scared to confront, because he knows her, and that she will likely deny it all... and then he will have to face the fact that his wife _*is and always was*_ dishonest toward him.





jsmart said:


> Chances are she may deny out of fear but once confronted with the evidence, she may finally be relieved to get it all out. As F’d up as she’s been for years, I’m sure There’s a level of love she has for him. It most likely is not the “in love “ type but they raised 3 kids and I’m sure they had many good times through the years so there’s no doubt that some love exist.
> 
> With OP carrying the weight of his discovery, he has most likely seemed distant and moody. Since she doesn’t know the cause, she may be tired of it and longing for a connection, hence the pic. Big secrets cause a rift in any marriage. He’s carrying around hurt, anger, and fear while she’s been carrying guilt for so long that it has just been suppressed into a new norm.
> 
> He needs to get it all out there. That’s the only way to break through this logjam. If he just lets this continue to fester, it will be her who breaks the impasse but I suspect it will be in a negative direction because she thinks he’s just being his usual unfeeling self, not that he’s dying inside because of what he discovered.





jsmart said:


> @loblawbobblog , for your wife to have made huge change 7 years ago, something major must have happened? What happened 7 years ago in your marriage or lives? Did you guys start going to church? Did your financial picture improve significantly? Was there a major loss in her family? Did old boyfriend get married? It had to be something significant? Help us help you by shedding some light on this.


We moved in to a new house at that time and yeah, our financial situation was improving. We seemed to be settling in to a more mature and closer stage in our relationship that's pretty much latest into the present.


----------



## Casual Observer

loblawbobblog said:


> We moved in to a new house at that time and yeah, our financial situation was improving. We seemed to be settling in to a more mature and closer stage in our relationship that's pretty much latest into the present.


So you’ve gotten to a better place that’s threatened by what you have learned about the past. Do you actually feel like she is a different person today? Or concerned that she’s opportunistic and if things go south or opportunity arises, her true self will return?

it seems like you’re setting things up for a test. Will she, upon discovering that you knoe about her one night stands, immediately gas light at first, then try to minimize? Or will she break down and convincingly display contrition and fear and tell you she understand if you have to leave her?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Here's maybe a slightly different look at the situation.

Looking back at the time of the affair, she wanted out of the relationship. I think she was an addict back then too. She had the affair in an attempt to get @loblawbobblog to leave her. To her surprise he wanted to fight for the relationship and got them into counseling even though she had been a very bad partner even before the affair(s). I suspect at the point they started counseling she still really wanted out of the marriage, so she kept doing what she had done as a teenager, slept around while more than likely being very high. I don't think she has ever gaslit or minimized, at least not based on what has been said here. She never revealed the ONSs, but again, she was probably still wanting out as well as an addict on alcohol and pills.

As time went by it seems she may have matured and the move 7 years ago appears to have been a turning point. Those revelations about a string of ONSs was in a journal that was part of step 4 in a 12 step program where she was/is trying to become sober. I wonder how long ago she made those entries and how long has she been sober? I got the impression that she may still working her way through the 12 steps. At some point in the process she may actually reveal those previously undisclosed ONSs as part of the program, but I'm obviously not certain. She may also now realize that she doesn't want to lose the marriage anymore and is afraid to reveal. Doesn't make it right, but it is understandable. And actually, step 9 says, make direct amends to people you have wronged wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. She may believe that revealing the additional sex partners would only cause him more harm and pain, which it has now that he found out on his own.

Now, onto the picture found in her sock drawer. Only she knows why it was there. Could it be that she was longing for the good old days with her a-hole, but passionate ex that got her pregnant with her first child that she aborted? That is plausible, especially since she has a history of bringing up that ex in rather fond terms, not with regret and disdain. Or, could it be she is thinking about the child she was likely carrying when that photo was taken? Part of the 12 step recovery is fearlessly inventorying your immoral acts, which is the same part where she wrote a history of her sexual indiscretions in that journal. She could be reflecting back on the abortion. Again, I don't know the timing of the journals vs the picture showing up, but looking at that photo could have come about as part of taking that moral inventory.

It could be that she is a changed or changing woman. Even if she is, I still think she remains a high risk partner since all addicts have a pretty high likelihood of relapse. @loblawbobblog would be taking a pretty big risk if he chooses to stay, which is fine if that is the path he chooses. I also wouldn't fault him for still leaving even if she has made a genuine effort to fix herself and wants to remain in the marriage. It could be the past damage she has done is just to much for him.


----------



## jsmart

Almost every wayward denies at first but that’s not necessarily a sign that they have no remorse or at least regret. It is scary for a dark secret of 2 decades to come out. That she wrote about her betrayals could be a hidden desire to get caught so she can get out from the weight of what she has done. 

Even though, she was a bit.. of a wife for MANY years, I’d bet she also had some self loathing going on as well but instead of looking inward, she took it out on OP. Despite the marriage not being the best, she was willing to have 2 more kids with OP. A wife is not going to do that unless she had real feelings for her husband.

@loblawbobblog. Lead your marriage and family by getting this all out. Not in yelling tyrannical fashion but in a complete opening your heart way. Her past comment about this is not the guy I married was about some nondescript midlife crisis you told her you’re going through not about what you’re really tormented by. I believe she may be ready to get this dark cloud lifted if you show that you’re truly open and ready.


----------



## Rob_1

I wouldn't care if she's now a saint levitating in a bunch of clouds going up to heaven, I would still dump her. I know that I'm not OP, and it looks that he's the kind of man that has the tolerance to stay after all the crap he uncovered about her, but still I would dump her.


----------



## TAMAT

Loblaw,

*You wrote, 

our couple's counselor was a woman who was so obviously on my wife's side it was ridiculous. At one point, she asked my wife if the sex with her AP was good. My wife said she didn't see the point in that question, but yes, the sex was good. I sat there in disbelief at the counselor's bias. My wife told me later that after that session, the counselor took her aside as she was leaving and asked my wife if she had a vibrator, and if not, she should get one. *

It took me awhile to respond to this as there is just so much wrong here.

She apparently judged you to be inferior to the OM.

She was encouraging your WW to cheat on you with a vibrator. 

She also tried to conceal that she told her to get a vibrator, which is implicitly asking your WW to lie to you. 

Go back and demand a refund and get her license revoked, if she has one.

Did you ask her if she cheated on her H or SO, I suspect she did.

What did your WW say about this woman, did WW select her.

The comment about the vibrator seems to imply that your WW told her, perhaps in a private session that she does not enjoy sex with you?


----------



## loblawbobblog

TAMAT said:


> Loblaw,
> 
> *You wrote,
> 
> our couple's counselor was a woman who was so obviously on my wife's side it was ridiculous. At one point, she asked my wife if the sex with her AP was good. My wife said she didn't see the point in that question, but yes, the sex was good. I sat there in disbelief at the counselor's bias. My wife told me later that after that session, the counselor took her aside as she was leaving and asked my wife if she had a vibrator, and if not, she should get one. *
> 
> It took me awhile to respond to this as there is just so much wrong here.
> 
> She apparently judged you to be inferior to the OM.
> 
> She was encouraging your WW to cheat on you with a vibrator.
> 
> She also tried to conceal that she told her to get a vibrator, which is implicitly asking your WW to lie to you.
> 
> Go back and demand a refund and get her license revoked, if she has one.
> 
> Did you ask her if she cheated on her H or SO, I suspect she did.
> 
> What did your WW say about this woman, did WW select her.
> 
> The comment about the vibrator seems to imply that your WW told her, perhaps in a private session that she does not enjoy sex with you?


This was the counselor from 22 years ago, we both agreed on her after looking up nearby counselors. To my wife's credit, she did not like her either and apologized to me about even answering the sex question. We stuck it out with her anyway because we didn't want to start all over with a new person. It was ultimately helpful but her bias towards my wife was undeniable. I don't know if my wife told her if she was unsatisfied with our sex life, it's quite possible though.


----------



## jsmart

One thing that is pretty unanimous on relationship forums, MC is a waste and can often do more harm than good after adultery. It is more valuable for both parties to do individual counseling. The wayward to find out what’s broken in them and to help them be there for their partner. The betrayed can benefit from IC to help them get through the pain and depression that often ensues adultery.

In your case, that counselor was horrible and did damage. It’s too bad your wife didn’t insist on changing counselors. A remorseful wife or at least regretful wife would have wanted to shield you from further pain but with her still jabbing the knife deeper into your heart with her “string” of ONS’ her head was not yet capable of really caring about your spiraling.


----------



## wmn1

loblawbobblog said:


> You nailed everything I'm thinking and feeling. With regards to financials, she'd get half my retirement. We'd be comfortable in retirement together, but with half I'd need to keep working much longer. Goddammit. I wouldn't begrudge her that, she's been a good stay at home mom the past 17 years, but it just sucks.


how has she been a great 'stay at home mom' while cheating and destroying her marriage.

Stop with giving her credit. She doesn't deserve any


----------



## wmn1

jsmart said:


> One thing that is pretty unanimous on relationship forums, MC is a waste and can often do more harm than good after adultery. It is more valuable for both parties to do individual counseling. The wayward to find out what’s broken in them and to help them be there for their partner. The betrayed can benefit from IC to help them get through the pain and depression that often ensues adultery.
> 
> In your case, that counselor was horrible and did damage. It’s too bad your wife didn’t insist on changing counselors. A remorseful wife or at least regretful wife would have wanted to shield you from further pain but with her still jabbing the knife deeper into your heart with her “string” of ONS’ her head was not yet capable of really caring about your spiraling.


I agree 100%. I will never see an MC


----------



## TAMAT

Loblaw, 

That MC did do one thing for you she got your WW to admit that she liked the sex with OM, many WWs will lie about that until the day they die. 

While that is a painful admission, it is the truth, and many BHs can never get over the impossible to believe stories about how their WWs never orgasmed etc.


----------



## ABHale

Damn, I don’t see how you are able to stay with her after finding out what she has done.

I just couldn’t do it. Especially after just eating the **** sandwich she forced feed you.


----------



## bygone

In your 20s, your wife was cheating on you. You didn't leave her the day she said "it was good" to have sex with the other guy. I don't think she has any love, respect or commitment to you.

ons is a reason for divorce without speaking/listening for me. ons are just sex. The fact that your wife has lived many ons should allow you to understand her point of view on sex.

timeline, no trace of the past or future, she is not caught, she does not care about the risk of std, she takes someone from the bar whenever she wants to do her job and sleeps with you after a few hours. Women who can do this are not marriage or friendship material.


----------



## Asterix

wmn1 said:


> how has she been a great 'stay at home mom' while cheating and destroying her marriage.
> 
> Stop with giving her credit. She doesn't deserve any


I agree with wmn1. 

How has she been a great "Stay at home mom" when she was actively pursuing activities that once came to light, had potential to dismantle the foundation of your marriage? Which could have in turn made, the family life potentially unstable for the kids. 

Being a good mom doesn't just stop at cooking dinners for the kids, picking them up from school and looking after their homework and health. She needs to make sure that she's providing a good nurturing environment for the kids. 

By cheating she negated that. Also, once came to light, she would have given up the right to be a role model for the kids (or rather a role model of what not to do in a marriage).


----------



## loblawbobblog

BigDaddyNY said:


> Here's maybe a slightly different look at the situation.
> 
> Looking back at the time of the affair, she wanted out of the relationship. I think she was an addict back then too. She had the affair in an attempt to get @loblawbobblog to leave her. To her surprise he wanted to fight for the relationship and got them into counseling even though she had been a very bad partner even before the affair(s). I suspect at the point they started counseling she still really wanted out of the marriage, so she kept doing what she had done as a teenager, slept around while more than likely being very high. I don't think she has ever gaslit or minimized, at least not based on what has been said here. She never revealed the ONSs, but again, she was probably still wanting out as well as an addict on alcohol and pills.
> 
> As time went by it seems she may have matured and the move 7 years ago appears to have been a turning point. Those revelations about a string of ONSs was in a journal that was part of step 4 in a 12 step program where she was/is trying to become sober. I wonder how long ago she made those entries and how long has she been sober? I got the impression that she may still working her way through the 12 steps. At some point in the process she may actually reveal those previously undisclosed ONSs as part of the program, but I'm obviously not certain. She may also now realize that she doesn't want to lose the marriage anymore and is afraid to reveal. Doesn't make it right, but it is understandable. And actually, step 9 says, make direct amends to people you have wronged wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. She may believe that revealing the additional sex partners would only cause him more harm and pain, which it has now that he found out on his own.
> 
> Now, onto the picture found in her sock drawer. Only she knows why it was there. Could it be that she was longing for the good old days with her a-hole, but passionate ex that got her pregnant with her first child that she aborted? That is plausible, especially since she has a history of bringing up that ex in rather fond terms, not with regret and disdain. Or, could it be she is thinking about the child she was likely carrying when that photo was taken? Part of the 12 step recovery is fearlessly inventorying your immoral acts, which is the same part where she wrote a history of her sexual indiscretions in that journal. She could be reflecting back on the abortion. Again, I don't know the timing of the journals vs the picture showing up, but looking at that photo could have come about as part of taking that moral inventory.
> 
> It could be that she is a changed or changing woman. Even if she is, I still think she remains a high risk partner since all addicts have a pretty high likelihood of relapse. @loblawbobblog would be taking a pretty big risk if he chooses to stay, which is fine if that is the path he chooses. I also wouldn't fault him for still leaving even if she has made a genuine effort to fix herself and wants to remain in the marriage. It could be the past damage she has done is just to much for him.


Excellent summation, you're correct on all points.


----------



## wmn1

Asterix said:


> I agree with wmn1.
> 
> How has she been a great "Stay at home mom" when she was actively pursuing activities that once came to light, had potential to dismantle the foundation of your marriage? Which could have in turn made, the family life potentially unstable for the kids.
> 
> Being a good mom doesn't just stop at cooking dinners for the kids, picking them up from school and looking after their homework and health. She needs to make sure that she's providing a good nurturing environment for the kids.
> 
> By cheating she negated that. Also, once came to light, she would have given up the right to be a role model for the kids (or rather a role model of what not to do in a marriage).


absolutely agree. Being a good mom means being a good wife. Noone can split the two apart. 

Thanks Asterix


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> Excellent summation, you're correct on all points.


How long has she been sober?


----------



## loblawbobblog

BigDaddyNY said:


> How long has she been sober?


12 years.


----------



## ABHale

As far as can tell, they already had one or two kids when OP’s wife started cheating. I am sure that play a part on why l-blog stayed.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> 12 years.


So those journals entries are from that long ago?


----------



## JWakk

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.


Well everything becomes so clear now and my thought are correct she is thinking about the EX and you need to get ahead of the game otherwise he will be back in her life and as I thought you are just a place holder. Personally I would not have ever let her back in my life but that was your choice to make I just hope you don't regret it. Anyone who can be in marriage counselling and still be cheating while supposedly trying to save the marriage is a real peace of work your problem was you were the one doing the saving when it should have been her job to fix things. The past 7 years you thought were good but were they really from your perspective of course yes but not from hers.
You know its getting in these days so bad with cheating as soon as I here the first paragraph of a guy crying for help because of the wife cheating I can tell him the whole story from start to finish what she was doing what she was saying to him it is all chapter and verse of the cheaters handbook and they all use it. For anyone doing the studies it becomes so obvious, I know when your the one being cheated on not so much basically because you don't want to believe that beautiful loving wife you have could never do something like that to you as you do everything for her. That is because you trust without reservation and my learning tells me always Trust But Verify that way at least you are partially prepared when the sh*t hits the fan.
Yes you can still get conned they are very good at that but at least you can turn and walk away thankful you found out. Their is always another woman waiting around the corner Men/women we are all replaceable.


----------



## JWakk

jsmart said:


> Damn man, I hate that this worse than we thought. So let me fully understand, you have not confronted her about the findings of the ONS? According to the diary, she did this only in 2000 but the marriage was not good until about last few years. You said she wanted to leave you when you confronted her, why did she decide to stay? I take it that’s the reason she’s been a SAHM.
> 
> How could you contemplate rug sweeping such a betrayal? she wrote she had a few ONS in succession like it was no big deal. You have no idea how many strange men she allowed to have her, which is disgusting. You have tried to love this woman and have busted your @ss to provide for your family to make it possible for your kids to have the additional stability that comes with having a mom who is home to be repaid by deceit and I’m guessing a very indifferent and cold wife.
> 
> I believe your wife might be plotting her exit. As the last child gets ready to leave the nest and she’s about to graduate, it makes sense that she’s mentally checking out and having a pic of her ex to stare at and reminisce is only a symptom of that checking out. I would bet she has been in touch with him.
> 
> You need to put your own plans into effect. It will take time to mentally prepare but prepare you must. That includes getting your finances in order. Speaking to a lawyer to find out exactly what you’re looking at. It may pay to wait for her to finish school and hit the work world or just tell her to get a job, so she can start having an earnings on the books.
> 
> In the mean time you should doing things to boost up your confidence. Having a wife like her has shattered you . Get yourself fit. I’m talking FIT. Also work on your appearance. Hair, beard, clothes, hygiene, etc. liking what you see in the mirror will help your confidence and the workouts will help boost your T levels , which are depleted by age and the stress that an unloving wife provides. Also get connected with other men . It is so important to have male friends. Your wife can be your best friend when she’s got your back but this one does not. Also get started with a hobby or activity that can get you active , out of the house , developing your social circle.
> 
> I don’t know if this marriage can or should be restored. That is up to both of you but it will be an uphill battle. It will probably be way easier to find new love than to restore what your wife has wanted to tare down for the longest.


I was spot on with my assessment on this guys wife if you see my posts but knowone agreed then only one other guy everyone was trying to say we were making a mountain out of a molehill I wonder what they are thinking now. All the relationship studies plus experience and the science behind it all certainly show things for what they really are.
It's got to the point I can almost read their minds over the internet because it all follows the chapters of the cheaters handbook to the letter. (just a reference) as that hasn't been written yet maybe I should do that.


----------



## JWakk

Parallax857 said:


> I'm baffled by the calls for DNA testing of the children. If the OP were not the biological father of the children, should he turn his back on them? Do all those years acting as their father count for nothing? Is it right to take from the children the only father they have ever known?
> 
> Jeez, people. Parenthood isn't about DNA. It's about love and attachment. The OP is the children's father -- regardless of 23 and Me findings. If they reveal no issue, great. But if they showed otherwise, that would still be something best left alone. Who cares? I'm not advocating forgiving the wife. But the children have done nothing wrong and the OP did nothing wrong, so why should they be made to suffer?
> 
> I find suggestions that the OP should walk out on the children if he's not the bio dad positively primitive.


Yes and when one of them get sick ad he is needed for blood or something else and suddenly he is told he is no good as he isn't the biological father I wonder how would that sit with him. Yes your right about the him being there father all their life but if he had been scammed into that and he didn't have a choice because of adultery why should he be the one doing all the paying while the real father is laughing at him that would be my stance. But if I choose to bring up a child from another person that Yes that is the choice I make.


----------



## JWakk

Sfort said:


> Plus, either way, the responses will be to get a divorce, DNA the kids, get a VAR, make her take a polygraph, and...
> 
> Ok, just kidding.


Not always but sh*t bags are Sh*t bags whether man/woman and they need to be gotten rid of that's why Adultery was punishable by stoning to death in scripture as they promote Evil to spread.


----------



## JWakk

SmallOne said:


> I face similar issues. When we got married (35 years ago), we didn't have sex the entire first year we were married. She was in a cult-like management training program and would often get home late, often came home drunk, and sometimes didn't come home at all. When she didn't come home, she would call and say she had too much to drink and drive and was staying at a girlfriend's house. Unfortunately, back then, I had no way of verifying her whereabouts. I'll go into some detail only to illustrate how bad the situation was.
> 
> One morning, she explicitly told me not to page her at work because the management trainees were doing a special project and it would be embarrassing for her if she was paged that evening. As luck would have it, something came up that caused me to call her. Her cube-mate answered her desk phone. I asked him if I should page her. He told me not to bother because the management trainees all went out drinking. I stated that they must have finished their project early. He laughed and said that there was no project - they had been planning this night for weeks. I asked him to leave my wife a post-it, asking her to call me.
> 
> A couple of hours later, she called me. I played along and asked how the project was going. She did not mention the drinking and told me she they were nearly done and she would be leaving in 20 minutes. I confronted her about the drinking night and she told me she didn't want to worry me. In plain terms that means she lied to me about what she was planning to do and lied to me about what she did. That night she didn't come home.
> 
> Based on that incident, the lack of sex in our marriage, and the constant extended stories involving certain guys in the program, I believe that she probably cheated on me back then. She is nowhere close to admitting that. Fast forward to today and we haven't had sex in five years. She tells me the lack of sex is all having to do with her age (menopause) and low self image that makes her feel "unsexy". It has nothing to do with me.
> 
> I'm not sure I buy it. My opinion is that I am not muscular enough or equipped enough to please her sexually. What she is attracted to is a different kind of guy. It obvious in the way she warms up to different guys what attracts her and it's not me. In order to cope, I've morphed into a guy that is into cuckold fantasies and SPH. Even knowing that affairs would only turn me on - she still won't admit she has had them. It's the worst of both worlds. I've changed myself to the core to enjoy the possibility of a cheating wife, but I'm neither allowed to enjoy that nor am I allowed to enjoy a sex life with a faithful wife.
> 
> All this said, I truly believe that the past no longer exists, the future does not exist yet, and the only real moment is now. So what do I do with now?
> 
> I've decided that the past is a ghost. I am no longer going to think about it. I love everything else about my wife and will not go without her in my life because of some mistakes she may have made 35 years ago. My advice is to focus on now and be happy in your life. If you find happiness, then thank God for that and move forward. The picture in the sock drawer may be an old relic she forgot about. That's why it's in a drawer and not in a frame. It doesn't necessarily mean anything.


This is precisely why women do what they do because weak men allow them to after finding out what you did about her, nothing else would have been required she could have all the fun she wanted but not married to me. You never except that kind of disrespect from anyone and even more so someone that is bound to you in marriage, from the streets she came back to the streets you send her. If she was not into you why did she not just divorce you Oh right you were her plan B as the others didn't want to commit to her I Wonder Why.


----------



## Catcha128

Give her a change to explain herself. If u r not happy w her answer and cannot trust that she is not faithful now, then, u hv ur answer. I know of women who r chronically cheats on their husbands but will never leave their husbands. Why? I don't know... its sad for the spouse tho.


----------



## JWakk

********** said:


> I read bits of sock drawer thread. You’ve always known why the photo. . . It was passionate with ex, she married a guy who isn’t (her words). You’ve tried to be but she doesn’t like it which confuses you, as it would anyone.
> 
> The ex is never absent; she talked about him lots down the years, even met him (with your blessing) and now the photo. He was passionate, but... a junkie, beat her up, abortion. . . Pretty screwed up to idealize someone like that. Trouble is he hasn't gone away, he’s still there after decades, made his way into the sock drawer and now on your threads. . .
> 
> She takes you for granted & sees you as ‘good ole reliable hubbie-provider’ who would never have an affair or leave her, esp cos she was your first & only love. She wasn’t bothered that the photo upset you, o/w you wouldn’t have had to ask more than once for her to move it. That’s plain arrogant. And she lied about why it was there. It flew in there by itself for no reason? I’d feel taken for a fool just for that. I'm sensing some narcissistic traits here.
> 
> For your part, you have nothing to reminisce about as she’s your first and only. As you said, you’re deep in your midlife crisis with all the “If I did a,b,c instead of x,y,z’”. You said that you both discussed how nervous you are of being empty-nesters, thus on your own. That’s a big red flag. . . and sad. . . and both of you feel that way . . Something is very seriously wrong here. Empty nesters should be excited, kids raised, fun times ahead.
> 
> I think the problem at the core is that with her brand new college degree & new job coming with opportunities to meet new people, you’re scared she’ll have an affair again and/or leave you for the ‘passion’ that she craves. That’s what she did last time she worked before being a SAHM. It was pretty full-on, PA & string of ONSs. I’d be scared too. Who is she anyway? Do you really know?
> 
> If it was me, I couldn’t live like that. I’d have to be number one in my husband’s eyes with no one else lurking in the shadows, physically or otherwise.
> 
> I’d put money on it that if you left her, the first thing she’d do is look up the ex.
> 
> In all your posts I have heard zero remorse from her, unless I missed it. That’s the biggest red flag of all.
> 
> The thing is you still have opportunities ahead re the a,b,c’s and x,y,z’s.
> The decision to stay or go is one of those.
> Only this time, unlike before, you have full knowledge of what she did.


She is planning on leaving him as he has only been a place holder for her, She is already in touch with the EX I would bet on it and if that doesn't work she will just play the field and if he is there still she will tear his life apart. He has one option here get the divorce before she does as she is planning that I'm sure of it.


----------



## JWakk

Catcha128 said:


> Give her a change to explain herself. If u r not happy w her answer and cannot trust that she is not faithful now, then, u hv ur answer. I know of women who r chronically cheats on their husbands but will never leave their husbands. Why? I don't know... its sad for the spouse tho.


She has had 22 year to explain herself and refused what more does he need to see the reality from the fantasy. They never leave because he is there fall back plan in case the Branch they try to Monkey too breaks but if they found someone who would have them they would dump him in a heartbeat no remorse whatsoever.


----------



## Casual Observer

JWakk said:


> This is precisely why women do what they do because weak men allow them to after finding out what you did about her, nothing else would have been required she could have all the fun she wanted but not married to me. You never except that kind of disrespect from anyone and even more so someone that is bound to you in marriage, from the streets she came back to the streets you send her. If she was not into you why did she not just divorce you Oh right you were her plan B as the others didn't want to commit to her I Wonder Why.


I get why you say that, but you’re not in his shoes. More important than the “what” of who he is, is the “why.” There could be something we could learn from him, or we might find a way to be of help.


----------



## ABHale

JWakk said:


> Yes and when one of them get sick ad he is needed for blood or something else and suddenly he is told he is no good as he isn't the biological father I wonder how would that sit with him. Yes your right about the him being there father all their life but if he had been scammed into that and he didn't have a choice because of adultery why should he be the one doing all the paying while the real father is laughing at him that would be my stance. But if I choose to bring up a child from another person that Yes that is the choice I make.


He did a 23 and me a few years ago for the fun of it. All of his kids are his in every way.


----------



## Rus47

One of several unexplained aspects here is the 7 years before the photo-in-the-sock-drawer incident when things have been "good". OP says she has been sober for more than a decade, ( a major accomplishment ) and the ONs were more than two decades ago. So she maybe believes that her sordid past is safely buried and has no idea what husband is dealing with. Is it possible that she is a different person from the addict, but with age, empty nest, hormone disruptions she is experiencing mid-life crisis of sorts?

The tough thing is with all of her lying and concealment, OP can't get to a place of having it all out with her, without tipping his hand. How would things turn out differently if he just ripped off the bandaid and exposed to her all of the crap he is dealing with, what he knows and suspects and is worried about?


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## 86857

How are you doing @loblawbobblog?


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## DownByTheRiver

loblawbobblog said:


> I don't think 23 is especially young to start having kids. In fact, it's the national average for women. I don't think she has a wandering eye, but she has used infidelity to get out of situations, with me and with others. However, she's no longer like that. She's truly a different person in that regard since getting sober.


In the U.S., it's 26


----------



## Taxman

I have a current client who was in a similar situation. His wife’s affair occurred 25-30 years ago, early in the marriage. He confronted, she confessed, but their situation demanded that they stick it out. They were forced to remain silent. So years became decades. For her life went on, he became an angry ass. Finally it came to a head when they were at her family’s for a dinner. Apparently another relatives marriage came to an end after an affair. WW forgot herself and said something about rugsweeping. Client lost it. Made a remark that opened the floodgates. Finally, he stormed out leaving his WW to confess. Her sister said, so that is why he has acted like an asshole for years. Her elderly mother scolded her and told her not to be surprised if he leaves. He did. She returned to the house, he was gone. He went off grid for a few weeks. She was going nuts trying to find him. Checked their credit cards and found travel agency charges. The agency was not willing to divulge any information. When he returned she told him about everything she endured and how embarrassed she was. Then she asked what he was up to. He said he got his head cleared. She kept nattering how his absence screwed her up. Then it hit her that he was acting differently. More assured. She asked again and he showed her his phone. Hundreds of pics of him on a tropical beach with women. Mostly their age,and deadly well preserved. Then she saw a few nudes. WTF did you do? He told her. She ran off to her mothers. She did not expect that her mother and siblings would support her husband but her brother pointed out that this was well thought out. Look at the women, took care of themselves (WW by that time was heavy ). He said do you guys even do it any more. Not so much she replied. He told her that the damage done is significant, but you had better get some game. She worked her tail off. In her 60s she lost weight, learned to be his wife all over again. Spent a lot of time in therapy. They survived.


----------



## Casual Observer

Taxman said:


> I have a current client who was in a similar situation. His wife’s affair occurred 25-30 years ago, early in the marriage. He confronted, she confessed, but their situation demanded that they stick it out. They were forced to remain silent. So years became decades. For her life went on, he became an angry ass. Finally it came to a head when they were at her family’s for a dinner. Apparently another relatives marriage came to an end after an affair. WW forgot herself and said something about rugsweeping. Client lost it. Made a remark that opened the floodgates. Finally, he stormed out leaving his WW to confess. Her sister said, so that is why he has acted like an asshole for years. Her elderly mother scolded her and told her not to be surprised if he leaves. He did. She returned to the house, he was gone. He went off grid for a few weeks. She was going nuts trying to find him. Checked their credit cards and found travel agency charges. The agency was not willing to divulge any information. When he returned she told him about everything she endured and how embarrassed she was. Then she asked what he was up to. He said he got his head cleared. She kept nattering how his absence screwed her up. Then it hit her that he was acting differently. More assured. She asked again and he showed her his phone. Hundreds of pics of him on a tropical beach with women. Mostly their age,and deadly well preserved. Then she saw a few nudes. WTF did you do? He told her. She ran off to her mothers. She did not expect that her mother and siblings would support her husband but her brother pointed out that this was well thought out. Look at the women, took care of themselves (WW by that time was heavy ). He said do you guys even do it any more. Not so much she replied. He told her that the damage done is significant, but you had better get some game. She worked her tail off. In her 60s she lost weight, learned to be his wife all over again. Spent a lot of time in therapy. They survived.


While the husband’s actions may be understandable, they’re not sanctionable within marriage. He had 25-30 years to deal with his situation, his anger, his presumably not repentant wife even? When I read stories like this, I can’t help but think of all those wasted years, for both of them, that could have been so much better, either together or apart. She had a damaging secret, an affair. He had a damaging secret, knowing of the affair and keeping it from everyone who might be able to help, leading to his anger.

What a waste. And yeah, it hits home, I understand completely.


----------



## Butforthegrace

OP, I may have missed it, but have you confronted your WW with what you have learned about her previously secret serial cheating?


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## Beach123

Why haven’t you filed for divorce?


----------



## sokillme

loblawbobblog said:


> She is finishing her degree next month and will start looking for a job, most likely in the same industry she was in before becoming a SAHM. The timing of all this irks because our household income is about to double with her working, which is a life changing amount for us. I know money isn't everything, but goddammit, we worked so hard to get here.


How much of this "mid life crisis" is fear about her getting a job and being independent, given that she hasn't been the most loyal person?

OP, as much as your problem is your wife's cheating, it's also how passive you have been in your own life. Your wife basically had an exit affair and told you as much but you kept her. You were unhappy with the counselor who basically humiliated you but you didn't want to start over so you stayed with her. You found out your wife continued to cheat while in counseling and is still hiding it from TO THIS DAY, and yet you haven't confronted her about it, instead you passively go along with her lies, all under the guise of not rocking the boat You are unhappy now but you are going to wait. There is no way you can get out of this without rocking the boat in the worst way if not sinking it.

At this point the problem is you, your wife has been the same women she was when she wrote about the cheating she was hiding in her diaries years ago. She will be the same dishonest unfaithful wife when she gets a new job, or 20 years from not for that matter. You can post another 100 pages but unless you get assertive about your own life and happiness nothing is going to change for you either, and you will be posting in this thread for years to come. That doesn't even have to mean divorcing her, it means being assertive. Taking agency in your own life and future.

I have been reading and posting on sites like this for about 5 years now, and there is a pretty consistent phenomenon I have discovered over that time. Find any thread with over 15 pages that deals with infidelity and you will find a poster who is stuck. You can just skip to the last page and it will basically just be rehashing stuff the poster already knows. They are not posting because they don't know all the information, though that will be how it's couched. What their real problem is, is they are stuck.

They are looking for some magic to make them easily unstuck, and are hoping some poster will provide some wisdom to allow them to unstuck themselves without the pain of braking some glasses in the process. I really think these are the most sad posts on these boards. The problem generally isn't the situation anymore but the inertia that the poster has. Then again I feel like it may be this inertia that attracts people who cheat to them in the first place. Passive people get cheated on, this is a universal truth. Again I am not talking about divorce, I am taking about empowering yourself to seek out the life you want. It's gonna suck and be painful, you are going to have to confront your wife, your situation, and most of all yourself.

We can't change it for you and we can't help you with that except maybe like I am doing in this post. You sir are going to have to do this yourself.


----------



## sokillme

loblawbobblog said:


> This was the counselor from 22 years ago, we both agreed on her after looking up nearby counselors. To my wife's credit, she did not like her either and apologized to me about even answering the sex question. We stuck it out with her anyway because we didn't want to start all over with a new person. It was ultimately helpful but her bias towards my wife was undeniable. I don't know if my wife told her if she was unsatisfied with our sex life, it's quite possible though.


Write a nasty yelp review. I would. But then again I am not nice, you see my post above.


----------



## loblawbobblog

sokillme said:


> How much of this "mid life crisis" is fear about her getting a job and being independent, given that she hasn't been the most loyal person?
> 
> OP, as much as your problem is your wife's cheating, it's also how passive you have been in your own life. Your wife basically had an exit affair and told you as much but you kept her. You were unhappy with the counselor who basically humiliated you but you didn't want to start over so you stayed with her. You found out your wife continued to cheat while in counseling u and is still hiding it from TO THIS DAY, and yet you haven't confronted her about it, instead you passively go alone with her lies, all under the guise of not rocking the boat You are unhappy now but you are going to wait. There is no way you can get out of this without rocking the boat in the worst way if not sinking it.
> 
> At this point the problem is you, your wife has been the same women she was when she wrote about the cheating she was hiding in her diaries year ago. She will be the same dishonest unfaithful wife when she gets a new job, or 20 years from not for that matter. You can post another 100 pages but unless you get assertive about your own life and happiness nothing is going to change for you either, and you will be posting in this thread for years to come. That doesn't even have to mean divorcing her, it means being assertive. Taking agency in your own life and future.
> 
> I have been reading and posting on sites like this for about 5 years now, and there is a pretty consistent phenomenon I have discovered over that time. Find any thread with over 15 pages that deals with infidelity and you will find a poster who is stuck. You can just skip to the last page and it will basically just be rehashing stuff the poster already knows. They are not posting because they don't know all the information though that will be how it's couched. What their real problem is, is that they are stuck.
> 
> They are looking for some magic to make them easily unstuck, and are hoping some poster will provide some wisdom to allow them to unstuck themselves without the pain of braking some glasses in the process. I really think these are the most sad posts on these boards. The problem generally isn't the situation anymore but the inertia that the poster has. Then again I feel like it may be this inertia that attracts people who cheat to them in the first place. Passive people get cheated on, this is a universal truth.  Again I am not talking about divorce, I am taking about empowering yourself to seek out the life you want. It's gonna suck and be painful, you are going to have to confront your wife, your situation, and most of all yourself.
> 
> We can't change it for you and we can't help you with that except maybe like I am doing in this post. You sir are going to have to do this yourself.


You're absolutely effing right. Thank you.


----------



## Beach123

What are you going to do to start changing the mess you’ve described?


----------



## Kaliber

@johndoe12299 how are you may man? How is life treating you?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Kaliber said:


> @johndoe12299 how are you may man? How is life treating you?


Ya know... this isn't his thread and has never posted in this thread, right? lol


----------



## Kaliber

BigDaddyNY said:


> Ya know... this isn't his thread and has never posted in this thread, right? lol


LOL you are right!
I don't know how I did it but I swear I am not drunk


----------



## Butforthegrace

OP, did you ever confront your wife? If so, how did it go?


----------



## Rus47

@loblawbobblog: Have you progressed any regarding your situation? If I recall, you decided to NOT confront your wife until she had at least finished schooling and was working her new job. Or maybe never. Am I remembering correctly? And you were continuing individual therapy to help you through eating the sandwich, aiming to achieve some semblance of peace working toward retirement on time, rather than being financially destroyed by a divorce?

My question is, has she shown any sign of suspecting something is "off"? Has her demeanor changed at all with finishing the education and starting this new job? Are there any signs she plans bailing out on you?


----------



## loblawbobblog

Wife graduated last week, youngest son graduates from high school this week. Wife is getting her resume together and will start actively looking for a job in next couple weeks. She recently told me how happy with life she is right now. Aside from my knowledge of her multiple ONS 22 years ago, I have nothing to complain about in my life. My wife and kids are doing well, I like my job and it pays really well, etc. It's really ****ing me up, this dissonance. I plan to confront her very soon which has the very real possibility of causing all of those good things in my life to come crashing down. I know her decisions 22 years ago are the cause of it, but unfortunately it's my decision whether to pull that trigger now or not. I'm miserable over all this.


----------



## blackclover3

loblawbobblog said:


> Wife graduated last week, youngest son graduates from high school this week. Wife is getting her resume together and will start actively looking for a job in next couple weeks. She recently told me how happy with life she is right now. Aside from my knowledge of her multiple ONS 22 years ago, I have nothing to complain about in my life. My wife and kids are doing well, I like my job and it pays really well, etc. It's really f!cking me up, this dissonance. I plan to confront her very soon which has the very real possibility of causing all of those good things in my life to come crashing down. I know her decisions 22 years ago are the cause of it, but unfortunately it's my decision whether to pull that trigger now or not. I'm miserable over all this.


why do you keep assuming that confronting and breaking up with your wife will cause you life to come crashing. our brain will always assume the worst case scenario and make the situation hopeless and the roadmap long. 

Many Many story I had read people recover really quick and actually get a better life after divorcing their cheater spouse. imagine that there is someone prettier inside and outside waiting for you - your true soulmate. also many dads found that they connect and spend quality time with their kids after divorce. 

a divorce and moving on is a statement, self dignity, and a lesson for your kids to not tolerate a cheater (this is just not about you). would you want your kids to stay with a cheater spouse ? of course not, then why should you?

she told you how happy with life she is now? of course - she tried several D*cks and had ridden several guys, stayed married, and had kids. she is not even feeling remorse or guilt of her cheating.


----------



## Asterix

loblawbobblog said:


> I plan to confront her very soon which has the very real possibility of causing all of those good things in my life to come crashing down.


It's not your confrontation that is going to cause all these good things to come crashing down. 

Think of it this way: Say there's a person who goes about her/his life being happy as a clam. Life is all rainbows and unicorns. Then that person goes to the doctor for a checkup only for the the doctor to tell them that they have stage 4 leukemia. Is it the doctor's fault that the doctor brought down all that happy life? Did the leukemia appeared out of thin air?

Another analogy would be: You have a Tiffany's gift box given to you by your wife and the box contains dog poop.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Asterix said:


> It's not your confrontation that is going to cause all these good things to come crashing down.
> 
> Think of it this way: Say there's a person who goes about her/his life being happy as a clam. Life is all rainbows and unicorns. Then that person goes to the doctor for a checkup only for the the doctor to tell them that they have stage 4 leukemia. Is it the doctor's fault that the doctor brought down all that happy life? Did the leukemia appeared out of thin air?
> 
> Another analogy would be: You have a Tiffany's gift box given to you by your wife and the box contains dog poop.


Yes I know that. Like I said earlier: 
"I know her decisions 22 years ago are the cause of it, but unfortunately it's my decision whether to pull that trigger now or not."


----------



## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> dissonance. I plan to confront her very soon which has the very real possibility of causing all of those good things in my life to come crashing down.


You don't have to confront very soon or ever. In fact, watchful waiting may be your best strategy. If she gets a good job and starts bringing in good money, that helps any potential spousal support. She planned taking the truth to her grave, you can do the same. It sounds like she isnt aware of your problem.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Rus47 said:


> You don't have to confront very soon or ever. In fact, watchful waiting may be your best strategy. If she gets a good job and starts bringing in good money, that helps any potential spousal support. She planned taking the truth to her grave, you can do the same. It sounds like she isnt aware of your problem.


My therapist suggested that as an option, basically to rug sweep (again!). I just can't do it again. My wife and I have been living in different realities long enough.


----------



## gr8ful1

loblawbobblog said:


> My therapist suggested that as an option, basically to rug sweep (again!)


Sounds like it’s time for a new therapist. This will eat at you forever unless you either confront & see if she’s willing to crawl through broken glass to keep you and you decide to try to work it out, or you simply leave.


----------



## Butforthegrace

I'm not making the logical leap about why confrontation would necessarily lead to divorce. Human relationships aren't binary, and life is not black and white. Both of these things can be true simultaneously:

1. Your wife decided and chose to serially cheat on you 22 years ago because she desired sex with other men more than she desired to honor her wedding vows with you. She has lied to you both directly (revealing some but not all, suggesting it was a full confession) and omission. Again, she chose this because it was easier for her. 

2. Your wife has loved you for 22 years and has been invested in being a good spouse and partner to you.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Butforthegrace said:


> I'm not making the logical leap about why confrontation would necessarily lead to divorce. Human relationships aren't binary, and life is not black and white. Both of these things can be true simultaneously:
> 
> 1. Your wife decided and chose to serially cheat on you 22 years ago because she desired sex with other men more than she desired to honor her wedding vows with you. She has lied to you both directly (revealing some but not all, suggesting it was a full confession) and omission. Again, she chose this because it was easier for her.
> 
> 2. Your wife has loved you for 22 years and has been invested in being a good spouse and partner to you.


Agreed, hence the dissonance. I'm really hoping that confronting her and getting it all out in the open for both of us will alleviate the pain I'm in, because if not, I can't stay in the marriage.


----------



## TexasMom1216

loblawbobblog said:


> Agreed, hence the dissonance. I'm really hoping that confronting her and getting it all out in the open for both of us will alleviate the pain I'm in, because if not, I can't stay in the marriage.


I’m so sorry she did this. You deserve so much better. There’s no excuse for it. I hope you’re able to find some peace soon. ❤


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## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> My therapist suggested that as an option, basically to rug sweep (again!). I just can't do it again. My wife and I have been living in different realities long enough.


But you can choose when to pull the trigger. At a time best for you


----------



## re16

loblawbobblog said:


> Agreed, hence the dissonance. I'm really hoping that confronting her and getting it all out in the open for both of us will alleviate the pain I'm in, because if not, I can't stay in the marriage.


Maybe it leads to divorce / maybe it doesn't... regardless you can't continue to internalize what you know without confronting her. She will either put in the effort to make you feel better or she won't.

People with a cheater mentality typically don't want to put in the work, and there is a strong chance she will attack and blame you instead. It is when you see those types of behaviors, that you really question the marriage.

Long story short, don't focus on the afternmath of the confront now, it is hard to predict... focus on getting the truth out in the open and watch how she reacts.


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## ABHale

I believe you need a new therapist.

I suggest sooner then later on confronting her.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Butforthegrace said:


> I'm not making the logical leap about why confrontation would necessarily lead to divorce. Human relationships aren't binary, and life is not black and white. Both of these things can be true simultaneously:
> 
> 1. Your wife decided and chose to serially cheat on you 22 years ago because she desired sex with other men more than she desired to honor her wedding vows with you. She has lied to you both directly (revealing some but not all, suggesting it was a full confession) and omission. Again, she chose this because it was easier for her.
> 
> 2. Your wife has loved you for 22 years and has been invested in being a good spouse and partner to you.


Lying and deceiving your spouse for 22 yrs does not make one a good spouse.


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## GusPolinski

Andy1001 said:


> What makes you think she hasn’t been cheating all along.
> You already found a photo of one of her exes in her sock drawer.


Serials don’t stop — they just get better at hiding it.

And, apparently, so secure in the warmth of their perpetual deception, that they commit it to pen and paper.


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## MattMatt

ABHale said:


> I believe you need a new therapist.
> 
> I suggest sooner then later on confronting her.


Not necessarily. Therapists will often use the technique of laying out possible courses of action with the intention of allowing their patient to see how crappy a potential sollution might be.

As @loblawbobblog has expressed here how distasteful he finds the idea of rugsweeping, I think that perhaps the therapist has done a good job.

However, I think that couple's counselling might be a good option. Even if only one session so that he can show his wife how she has devastated him with her horrible, thoughtless actions.


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## Butforthegrace

loblawbobblog said:


> Agreed, hence the dissonance. I'm really hoping that confronting her and getting it all out in the open for both of us will alleviate the pain I'm in, because if not, I can't stay in the marriage.


One of the mantras on infidelity sites is to let go of the outcome. Seek the truth, for its own sake. Let the process guide the outcome where it may, but remain true to the process. What has been plaguing you is the lack of truth. If you try to manipulate the process because you fear one outcome or another, you'll find yourself losing your path toward the truth.

It may very well be the case that, after the truth is out and full honesty and intimacy is restored, you'll find you don't actually much like your wife. Or, you may find you like her even more, leading to a strengthening of your love. The point is, what you need now is to get to know who she really is.


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## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> Wife graduated last week, youngest son graduates from high school this week. Wife is getting her resume together and will start actively looking for a job in next couple weeks. She recently told me how happy with life she is right now. Aside from my knowledge of her multiple ONS 22 years ago, I have nothing to complain about in my life. My wife and kids are doing well, I like my job and it pays really well, etc. It's really ****ing me up, this dissonance. I plan to confront her very soon which has the very real possibility of causing all of those good things in my life to come crashing down. I know her decisions 22 years ago are the cause of it, but unfortunately it's my decision whether to pull that trigger now or not. I'm miserable over all this.


Getting everything out does not have to lead to divorce. What she did 22 years ago (I really hope nothing else happened after those ONS), will be weighed against the life the 2 of you have built together. I know it was about 15 years until things finally improved, but even through the lukewarm years, there were many good times. She gave you two more kids during those years so I know there had to be many good times.

My hope is that with you confronting, she uses this as an opportunity to completely come clean and offer you a really deep heart felt apology and that she wants to make the next stage of your marriage to be based on truth, honesty, and being loving towards you.

You also have worked to do. For months you have suffered with your findings and have been dishonest with her for the cause. A marriage can’t stand on a foundation of lies. How can you expect her to read the mind of an introvert? She doesn’t know that you’re suffering from new found knowledge of her betrayals. All you have done these past few months is cause her to view you as being weak and unsteady. Definitely not traits that a woman wants in her man.


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## BigDaddyNY

GusPolinski said:


> Serials don’t stop — they just get better at hiding it.
> 
> And, eventually, so secure in the warmth of their perpetual deception, they commit it to pen and paper.


I agree in general, but as always, each situation has its specific circumstances. She was an addict at the time this went down AND she did it in an attempt to destroy the marriage. She said as much, but he decided to fight to keep the marriage going. This is now 22 years later and I get the sense that she is a different person and for many years now has been committed to the marriage. That doesn't excuse the past infidelity and I think @loblawbobblog must confront her for his own sanity. To me the evidence says she has not been a serial cheater since she has gotten sober and confrontation doesn't have to mean divorce is inevitable. I think the best outcome is he confronts, she is now fully committed and will do what is needed to properly allow @loblawbobblog to heal and he gets to continue in a marriage that today he is happy with.


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## 86857

loblawbobblog said:


> Agreed, hence the dissonance. I'm really hoping that confronting her and getting it all out in the open for both of us will alleviate the pain I'm in, because if not, I can't stay in the marriage.





loblawbobblog said:


> I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good.


Gee @loblawbobblog I feel your pain.
Your wife is very happy. You're at your unhappiest. Right now you don't even have a marriage. You're not being honest with your wife and she doesn't even know you need her support.

To use pure logic:
1. *You're afraid *if you confront you won't be able to stay after finding out the details and/or she may not be 100% remorseful. Even if she is, deep down you know that you still mightn't be able to stay.

2. *You're afraid *if you don't confront you can't stay in the marriage feeling as you do now which is in fact how you'll feel *for the rest of your life.*

Ultimately I think what's underpinning this is your *fear of divorce *and you're drowning in it.
The fact that 'everything else is great' is irrelevant. You're a mess.

With something that's causing fear, it's useful to 'go there' and look at it in the face.
You're 53 with potentially 30-odd years ahead, about the same as the length of time you've been with your wife, in other words, *the 2nd half of your life. *Chances of meeting someone, a non-cheater, are very high. Good!
You're in a good place financially, W is with her new career, and your kids are raised. Good!
'Blowing up a family' is no excuse. The kids are raised. Once kids get to 18 they get ultra self-centred about their own lives, their own relationships, their careers—as it should be. The parents' role is far less than what most parents like to even admit. Good!
If you divorce, you can say goodbye to all the feelings you have right now. Sure there'd be sadness and disappointment but those are a lot less painful. Once you embraced your new life—you'd be crazy not to—those feelings would fade in time. The feelings you have now, whether you stay and don't tell her/stay and tell her, ain't going to go away. R may or may not be successful in terms of your feelings. No guarantees there.

Face your fear of divorce. It's not horrific, 50% of marriages end in divorce. Once you face it, you'll confront her without even having to think about it.

It's about time to stand up for yourself and think about yourself. It's *your* responsibility, no one else's.

You came here for advice. I can't find even one post which said you shouldn't confront. The consensus is confront. Many said you should leave anyway. They all can't be wrong, and are well qualified since they're all familiar with betrayal.

Remember the Nike catchphrase? 'Just do it'!
Confront! ASAP since there's no excuse to wait.


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## MattMatt

@loblawbobblog Some people are confused by what "confrontation" means.

Yeah, it can be all shouty and fist waving.

But it can be something done in a calm, measured and loving way with a professional mediator.

"Dear wife, this is the situation that I find myself in. This is what I have learned 22 years after the events. Obviously those events are in the past for you, you are two decades distant from them. But for me? They are fresh, panful wounds. Please let's share our thoughts on this situation."


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## jsmart

I agree with Matt. The confrontation should be calm but firm. You have 22 years since those betrayals to weigh her negatives against. Yes it’s F ‘d up what she did but no one expects you to D over this. She has to give you answers. I suspect having such a dark secret created a wedge that made having a close loving relationship impossible. 

It the same with you for these past few months. You have resorted to lying. This can hopefully lead to a more loving marriage with no more secrets but it has to start with you stepping up and confronting her. Rug sweeping this will just lead to you eventually divorcing from the lack of emotional connection this new knowledge has created.


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## ABHale

“Let share our thoughts” I don’t think I would ever say those words.

It would be more to “WTF were you thinking!! We were in counseling trying to get past your CHEATING! How many other people have you since then?”


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## BigDaddyNY

ABHale said:


> “Let share our thoughts” I don’t think I would ever say those words.
> 
> It would be more to “WTF were you thinking!! We were in counseling trying to get past your CHEATING! How many other people have you since then?”


Again, gotta point out that at the time HE (not we) was trying to get past the cheating, she wanted to destroy the marriage and make him leave her. Self destructive behavior that I assume went along with her addiction issues. She just wasn't strong or brave enough to end it on her own and went along with the counseling.


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## Evinrude58

If you finally confront her, and she is anything but remorseful and trying with every bone in her body to maybe things right with you—-just leave her. At this point, the only person that can fix this is your wife, abd if she has no desire to do so, you should walk.
The pain you’ve endured will never go away until this has been dealt with properly.
I wish you luck doing it. I do think walking away from this is what you should’ve done a long time ago. What your wife did was too egregious to deal with for me.


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## BigDaddyNY

Evinrude58 said:


> If you finally confront her, and she is anything but remorseful and trying with every bone in her body to maybe things right with you—-just leave her. At this point, the only person that can fix this is your wife, abd if she has no desire to do so, you should walk.
> The pain you’ve endured will never go away until this has been dealt with properly.
> I wish you luck doing it. I do think walking away from this is what you should’ve done a long time ago. What your wife did was too egregious to deal with for me.


This is what it all comes down to. If she is truly changed she will do whatever she needs to save the marriage. It is her turn to fight for it. 

As far as leaving her a long time ago, remember that he only found out about these ONSs back in April. Up till then he thought it was a single AP and it was addressed though piss poor counseling. He has only had a couple months to process the new information.


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## jsmart

BigDaddyNY said:


> Again, gotta point out that at the time HE (not we) was trying to get past the cheating, she wanted to destroy the marriage and make him leave her. Self destructive behavior that I assume went along with her addiction issues. She just wasn't strong or brave enough to end it on her own and went along with the counseling.


This is an important fact that has to be taken into account. Despite being married for a few years and having a kid together, she was not in love with @loblawbobblog. She had wanted to leave on D day. In her damaged state, she probably wanted to run off with OM and may have engaged in the string of ONS to get over OM. She was truly a broken woman that has no idea that it was OP’s willingness to eat the $hit sandwich that saved their young family.

I agree with Ev, that she should be open, truthful, and showing true remorse for what she put OP through. I suspect she actually will be relieved to get the truth out. Having that dark secret has to have been a heavy load for her too.


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## MattMatt

ABHale said:


> “Let share our thoughts” I don’t think I would ever say those words.
> 
> It would be more to “WTF were you thinking!! We were in counseling trying to get past your CHEATING! How many other people have you since then?”


Which would then cause


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## Evinrude58

I think we are projecting on OP’s wife that she will be remorseful, when in truth, nobody knows what she will do. A person that did what she did—- no telling. It’d be great if she crawled to his feet in sackcloth and ashes…. But she could just as easily go the other direction.


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## Dictum Veritas

MattMatt said:


> Which would then cause


That's why I'm staying away, I cannot fathom another outcome to adultery, past or present. I'm just not wired for R at all, but I do acknowledge that it takes different personalities to make the world go round.


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## 86857

@loblawbobblog Although I talked a lot about divorce, I wasn't advocating it as such. Everyone is different. You will only know how you feel about it after you talk to her etc. 
I agree with @MattMatt and others. It doesn't have to be angry, 'talk' is a better word than 'confront' .
I think, rightly or wrongly, that fear of divorce may be holding you back. Hence my post.

That said, when we're upset, it can be hard to express ourselves clearly.
I'd sit down and write out exactly what you want to say.
Firstly write down ALL the emotions you're feeling.
Secondly write down ALL the questions you want to ask, every last one.
You can then say those things to her or even better, do what I did when it was my turn .
I told him I had something to discuss, had written everything down and asked him not to interrupt me until I'd read it all out. Thus it was calm and it kept me grounded.
Otherwise she might interrupt you, defending herself etc and the discussion will become fractured. Try and get everything on the table in the first discussion.
My thruppence worth anyway.


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## *Deidre*

Personally, I think that your wife OP, needs to see some anger from you. You may be afraid to lose her, but is she afraid to lose you? Does she really see what all of this has done to you? You can be angry in a calm way, but I wouldn’t sweep your feelings under the carpet any longer. Let her know what you feel about what happened and that YOU are unsure of things. That’s the truth, isn’t it?


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## Rus47

Evinrude58 said:


> I think we are projecting on OP’s wife that she will be remorseful, when in truth, nobody knows what she will do. A person that did what she did—- no telling. It’d be great if she crawled to his feet in sackcloth and ashes…. But she could just as easily go the other direction.


I believe she will be astounded that another of her secrets has been revealed and that her cushy life is at risk. I sincerely hope this doesnt cause her to regress back into addivtion. Crisis can cause that.


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## 86857

Yup @*Deidre*. I didn't mean he should pussyfoot around either. In my own script I wrote, 'I'm as angry as all hell with you' and read it out. I knew if didn't do that, I'd yell and likely be armed with a saucepan to hit him over the head with too .
My therapist had told me that when you say things in a low measured tone instead of yelling, it has a way bigger impact. I fully agree.


----------



## *Deidre*

********** said:


> Yup @*Deidre*. I didn't mean he should pussyfoot around either. In my own script I wrote, 'I'm as angry as all hell with you' and read it out. I knew if didn't do that, I'd yell and likely be armed with a saucepan to hit him over the head with too .
> My therapist had told me that when you say things in a low measured tone instead of yelling, it has a way bigger impact. I fully agree.


Lol I know what you mean. Sometimes, people are afraid to show anger or say they’re angry because it can be interpreted as a negative feeling so we opt for “I’m so hurt that you did this.” You can feel hurt, sad and many emotions when someone has betrayed your trust, but anger is also part of the spectrum.

Part of the reality of what the OP may be facing is anger with himself for what has happened. Anger that he feels compared to another man/men, etc…This isn’t an easy thing to deal with but it’s important to be real with all the emotions. Anger shouldn’t be misconstrued for a license to be mean, and abusive. That’s not healthy anger, but there is a healthy way to demonstrate that feeling when you feel it.

“I’m really disappointed in you, and not sure where we go from here,” is a healthy way to get anger out. But all this walking on egg shells doesn’t help relationships, it only builds resentment, imo.


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## re16

Evinrude58 said:


> I think we are projecting on OP’s wife that she will be remorseful, when in truth, nobody knows what she will do. A person that did what she did—- no telling. It’d be great if she crawled to his feet in sackcloth and ashes…. But she could just as easily go the other direction.


Fully agree... this is going to come down to her reaction now, even though this happened long ago. If she wants to make OP feel better and she is remorseful, you got something to work with... if she is offended and attacks OP for bringing this up, then she presently doesn't care about him and then he can deal with that accordingly.

I give it 60 / 40 odds that she goes with defensive and attack OP... (mostly based on his fear of bringing this up telling me what he thinks of how she will react)


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## jsmart

It’s hard to tell. I want to believe that his wife will fall at her feet crying for forgiveness but @loblawbobblog fear of confronting has me concerned that she may lie to him and say that it was just fantasy writing and then come at him for invading her privacy. 

The stress he has been going under is definitely impacting their relationship. He’s probably coming across as needy and the fact that he’s having problems being able to “finish”when having sex due to mind movies of her with all of these guys from her “string “ of ONS’ may have contributed to her taking out the pic of her pregnant with her old fiancé to reminisce.

I like @********** suggestion to write down all his questions. I suggest that he read that post carefully for how to proceed with the confrontation.


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## Rus47

I concur with @MattMatt that counseled facilitation by third party would be best


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## A18S37K14H18

Dictum Veritas said:


> That's why I'm staying away, I cannot fathom another outcome to adultery, past or present. I'm just not wired for R at all, but I do acknowledge that it takes different personalities to make the world go round.


Bingo! Me too DV, me too.

I divorced my first husband asap when I discovered his cheating. To me, cheating is abuse and abuse needs to be cut out of one's life, like a cancer.

Abuse is abuse. Just think of the topic of physical violence, where a lady is saying her male partner hits her etc. (yes, I know women may hit men too), she's told by many to get out, to leave, that it will get worse.

People don't tell women who are being physically abused to try and reconcile with their abuser. They are told to get out.

Somehow, many think a betrayed spouse should try and reconcile with their abuser.

Cheating is emotional abuse. Cheating is psychological abuse.

And, in a very real way, cheating many times is physical abuse, for all those who were given STD's from their abusive cheating partner.

Abuse is abuse, yet while so many tell folks to leave their abuser who is physically abusing them, many tell folks to try and reconcile with their abuser who cheated on them.

There are many kinds/types of abuse and regardless of what kind of abuse it is, it needs to be excised from one's life.

I have zero tolerance for being abused, regardless of what type of abuse one perpetrates on me, I'm gone.


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## Asterix

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Bingo! Me too DV, me too.


Not sure what you mean by DV and that reminds me of something that I didn't think of in this case.

@loblawbobblog , you know your wife better. Do you think after confronted, she may start drumming up domestic violence against you and make your life miserable in general?


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## A18S37K14H18

Asterix said:


> Not sure what you mean by DV and that reminds me of something that I didn't think of in this case.
> 
> @loblawbobblog , you know your wife better. Do you think after confronted, she may start drumming up domestic violence against you and make your life miserable in general?


DV is short for "Dictum Veritas", which is the poster I was quoting.

So many of us use abbreviations for those we are quoting and talking to.

I was not referring to domestic violence when I used DV as an abbreviation for Dictum Veritas.


----------



## loblawbobblog

In all honesty, I'm not that concerned with her reaction. My prediction is that she'll be very sorry and remorseful, and then ask me what do I want to do. She is not and has never been one to fight to keep a relationship, with me or her prior boyfriends. If someone hinted at wanting to split up, she was gone. In fact, a few months ago, before I found out about the ONS's, we were having a heart to heart talk and I said I'm going through some typical midlife crisis ennui, and she said, "If you're planning on leaving me, just do it quick, I'll be fine."

So again, I'm not concerned with her reaction, I'm concerned with mine once I know the details, if she'll tell me. I'm pretty certain I won't be able to stay in the marriage and that is what I'm afraid of and the reason I'm procrastinating. It's not just the dissolution of my marriage I'm dreading, it's the process. If I could wake up tomorrow fully divorced and having gone through the heartache of telling family, the logistics of moving and all the legal crap, I'd pull the trigger right now.


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## colingrant

Isn't it true then that you would be fearful of her non-reaction? So, if you consider the truth to be too egregious to remain with her, her reaction will be inappropriately cavalier to the point where she just says, "so what do *you* want to do", which is essentially putting it on you and having you lead. Since you would be inclined to sever the relationship, per your example above, she'll just say "okay" and move on.

Is it possible you're fearful of the scenario from playing out? You're not the first poster to be fearful of this outcome. Many on this site fear the outcome from a confrontation will reveal the indifferent posture of the wayward spouse so they remain passive and unoffending so as to not scare them off.


----------



## loblawbobblog

colingrant said:


> Isn't it true then that you would be fearful of her non-reaction? So, if you consider the truth to be too egregious to remain with her, her reaction will be inappropriately cavalier to the point where she just says, "so what do *you* want to do", which is essentially putting it on you and having you lead. Since you would be inclined to sever the relationship, per your example above, she'll just say "okay" and move on.
> 
> Is it possible you're fearful of the scenario from playing out? You're not the first poster to be fearful of this outcome. Many on this site fear the outcome from a confrontation will reveal the indifferent posture of the wayward spouse so they remain passive and unoffending so as to not scare them off.


No, I'm not fearful of how she'll respond. I'd bet good money she will respond as I described in my previous comment. I'm fearful of what I will need to do to preserve my sanity and sense of self-worth, which is to leave the marriage. I don't want that result but I know it's what I'll have to do, regardless of how she responds, and I'm just prolonging the inevitable at this point.


----------



## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> In all honesty, I'm not that concerned with her reaction. My prediction is that she'll be very sorry and remorseful, and then ask me what do I want to do. *She is not and has never been one to fight to keep a relationship, with me or her prior boyfriends. If someone hinted at wanting to split up, she was gone.*


That would be disturbing. You can’t compare her past relationships from when she was a teen or her affair partner. You are her husband of more than 25 years and the father of her 3 kids. There’s no way she would coldly say, “so, what do you want to do?” If she did, it is not because that’s who she is; it will be because she’s isn’t in love with you.


Neither I nor anyone else in TAM would fault you if you decided to D after getting confirmation of her ONS, especially if that string turns out to be lengthy or that there were other affairs over the years. But I want to tell you that no one on TAM, should get on your case if the ONS are true and yet you decide to stay because she shows true sorrow and remorse for the hurt she caused.


----------



## 86857

A18S37K14H18 said:


> People don't tell women who are being physically abused to try and reconcile with their abuser. They are told to get out.
> Somehow, many think a betrayed spouse should try and reconcile with their abuser.
> Cheating is emotional abuse. Cheating is psychological abuse.


I totally agree @A18S37K14H18. Pyschologists have said, for decades, that the only difference damage-wise to the human psyche between domestic violence and psychological abuse are the physical scars—the damage to mind and heart is the same. One only has to look at the angst in the R threads, even with 100% remorseful WS most go on for years with BS still being tortured by the mind movies etc.
That's why I'm in the anti R camp. I never even considered R when I was a BS. We were living in a foreign (his) country, I didn't speak the language and most people there didn't speak English AND I didn't know anyone as we'd only been there 6 months, so no onsite support. Going back to my home country wasn't an option. I stayed and carved out a new life as I really liked the country and was back to my normal self very quickly.
I don't want people who lie and cheat in my orbit, no matter who they are. So I walked my talk LOL.


----------



## blackclover3

jsmart said:


> That would be disturbing. You can’t compare her past relationships from when she was a teen or her affair partner. You are her husband of more than 25 years and the father of her 3 kids. There’s no way she would coldly say, “so, what do you want to do?” If she did, it is not because that’s who she is; it will be because she’s isn’t in love with you.
> 
> 
> Neither I nor anyone else in TAM would fault you if you decided to D after getting confirmation of her ONS, especially if that string turns out to be lengthy or that there were other affairs over the years. But I want to tell you that no one on TAM, should get on your case if the ONS are true and yet you decide to stay because she shows true sorrow and remorse for the hurt she caused.


@
*loblawbobblog*

the only true remorse she is showing is because she got old - and no one look at her the same. and her drive and hormone for an older woman. 
if she had the body and the look like she had during her affair she would still continue her ONS


----------



## 86857

First @loblawbobblog as @jsmart said, the decision is yours and I'm sure everyone will respect your decision whatever it is. However, they will still warn you of the pitfalls.

The following is my opinion only of how I'd feel about the below. An alarm bell went off for me when you said:


loblawbobblog said:


> In fact, a few months ago, before I found out about the ONS's, we were having a heart to heart talk and I said I'm going through some typical midlife crisis ennui, and she said, "*If you're planning on leaving me, just do it quick, I'll be fine.*"


If my husband said that to me I'd be very upset. It would seem very cold and I'd interpret it as 'I'll be fine whether you're here or not'.
My advice would be tread very cautiously.
I said before that I got the impression that fear of the actual divorce might be holding you back from talking to her.


loblawbobblog said:


> It's not just the dissolution of my marriage I'm dreading, it's the process. If I could wake up tomorrow fully divorced and having gone through the heartache of telling family, the logistics of moving and all the legal crap, I'd pull the trigger right now.


The kids aren't kids, they're all over age 18. They'll be fine. Their concerns now are *their* lives, *their* relationships, *their* careers. Parents become very secondary when they're that age. As long as you're not yelling at each other in front of them or bad-mouthing each other to them, they'll be OK.
You seem to be blaming yourself to an extent as in 'the heartache of telling the family'. She's the cause of the heartache, not you. You even forgave her once before and lived through the R process which is NOT easy. You did all you could. She couldn't even keep her side of the bargain by having ONS during therapy (ouch!) and continuing to lie for the next 22 years.
The logistics of moving? C'mon!
Legal crap? Simple. The lawyer does that. Just make sure to put it in the best hands and get a good one.


----------



## Openminded

If you do decide on divorce, don’t be so fearful of the process. I was married to a serial cheater for decades. Why? Because I didn’t believe in divorce and I didn’t want to go through the pain and chaos and confusion of it. When I had finally had enough I got out. Yes, it was difficult but not even close to being as difficult as I feared. So whether you stay or go, don’t focus on fear.


----------



## jlg07

When you DO decide to confront, make sure you record it -- you will be super emotional and will probably miss stuff that you might want to review later...


----------



## jsmart

blackclover3 said:


> @
> *loblawbobblog*
> 
> the only true remorse she is showing is because she got old - and no one look at her the same. and her drive and hormone for an older woman.
> if she had the body and the look like she had during her affair she would still continue her ONS


Come on BC, that’s very likely not true. I’m getting the impression that his wife is probably very attractive for her age. A good looking woman, who’s outgoing, and probably gives off a very sexual vibe is never going to find men in short supply. Yes, I know that doesn’t mean any of these guys that want to bang her will want to wife her up or even live with her. I say all that to point out that she may want to fight for @loblawbobblog because all they have built together and not because she’s afraid of being a divorced.


----------



## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> She is not and has never been one to fight to keep a relationship, with me or her prior boyfriends.


Well, then there isn't much there. If she doesn't want to fight for her marriage to you then it is only a matter of time until it ends. If not from you finding out details of the ONSs, but from something else. Like a life threatening illness, or financial difficulties, or a family member in crisis. There are myriad challenges to a marriage and if BOTH people aren't all in, with an "US against the world" viewpoint, the end is only a matter of time, until the wrong set of challenges arrives.

With all that you did for her, and as hard as you fought to keep your marriage together over decades, in the face of her addiction and infidelity, saving her from her toxic original bad boy, if she wouldn't fight to keep you then SHE isn't worthy of having you as her husband. You will be the great one who got away. And unfortunately that could ultimately kick her back into the addiction pit.

I still think theat @MattMatt's suggestion of having the discussion with a trained third party might bring the best results.


----------



## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> I said I'm going through some typical midlife crisis ennui, and she said, "If you're planning on leaving me, just do it quick, I'll be fine."


This IMO is a really heartless reaction to you sharing a problem. That "she will be fine" , to h3ll with how you are feeling. After 25 years dealing with her "stuff", that is honestly a pretty sorry, cold hearted response.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Rus47 said:


> Well, then there isn't much there. If she doesn't want to fight for her marriage to you then it is only a matter of time until it ends. If not from you finding out details of the ONSs, but from something else. Like a life threatening illness, or financial difficulties, or a family member in crisis. There are myriad challenges to a marriage and if BOTH people aren't all in, with an "US against the world" viewpoint, the end is only a matter of time, until the wrong set of challenges arrives.
> 
> With all that you did for her, and as hard as you fought to keep your marriage together over decades, in the face of her addiction and infidelity, saving her from her toxic original bad boy, if she wouldn't fight to keep you then SHE isn't worthy of having you as her husband. You will be the great one who got away. And unfortunately that could ultimately kick her back into the addiction pit.
> 
> I still think theat @MattMatt's suggestion of having the discussion with a trained third party might bring the best results.


She'd be there for me through all that, I have no doubt. What she can't abide is someone not totally in it if she's in it. She'd rather just end it then be in doubt.


----------



## 86857

Still @loblawbobblog If she feels that strongly about it, she sure wasn't totally in it back then and didn't fess up then or for the next 22 years til you found out yourself. Double standard vibe to me. You can't be totally in it if you're lying to someone, for all that time. Sorry!


----------



## loblawbobblog

********** said:


> Still @loblawbobblog If she feels that strongly about it, she sure wasn't totally in it back then and didn't fess up then or for the next 22 years til you found out yourself. Double standard vibe to me. You can't be totally in it if you're lying to someone, for all that time. Sorry!


Agreed, it's a double standard, but in a way it's healthier than me twisting myself into a pretzel trying to get her to stay. She doesn't want to waste time with someone who doesn't want to be with her. I've no fear any longer of that attitude and in fact, have that mindset going into all this.


----------



## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> I've no fear any longer of that attitude and in fact, *have that mindset going into all this*.


Good for you!


----------



## 86857

That's a great mindset. 
Make sure you're self-esteem, self-confidence, self-respect are all up to 100% going into the 'talk'. 
Cos betrayal can really erode it. 
Of course I don't know you, maybe you're an axe-murderer  ... but seriously, you sound like a decent man. . . and loyal. . . and a great Dad. You deserve the best! Remember that!


----------



## ABHale

BigDaddyNY said:


> Again, gotta point out that at the time HE (not we) was trying to get past the cheating, she wanted to destroy the marriage and make him leave her. Self destructive behavior that I assume went along with her addiction issues. She just wasn't strong or brave enough to end it on her own and went along with the counseling.


Talking about now not then. Now he knows she didn’t give a rats ass about him back then, Still doesn’t.


----------



## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> She'd be there for me through all that, I have no doubt. What she can't abide is someone not totally in it if she's in it. She'd rather just end it then be in doubt.


You have been totally in with her for your family, so why would she think that you’re not all in for her, after enduring so much to keep the family intact. Unless she’s projecting how she feels on to you. 

When you confront, you should let her know that you need her to do the fighting for the marriage this tine because it was you who fought for her these past 22 years, even though it was you who was betrayed. You not wanting to fight for a unremorseful WW doesn’t mean you don’t really want to still be with her. It’s that there’s only but so much disrespect a man can take.


----------



## Evinrude58

Her actions and words…… I’ll be fine, just do it quick. Lol. She’s told you what to do. Give her lousy, cold, heartless, cheating self a quick boot. She sounds like a horrid woman. Nobody that loves their spouse says such things. Surely you realize that, right? A good wife would have tears at even the thought of losing the man she loved.

boot her and find yourself such a woman.


----------



## Rus47

Evinrude58 said:


> A *good* wife would have tears at even the thought of losing the man she loved.


Especially when he confides he is having some psychological difficulties. Especially after all he saved her from and after putting up with her addiction and infidelity for years. Especially tolerating her getting an education on his dime so she can get a new job. A coldhearted unempathetic one there


----------



## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> What she can't abide is someone not totally in it if she's in it. She'd rather just end it then be in doubt.


So she expects you to put up with all of her crap and be totally in. She isn't wiling to but up with any issues you have. So, yeah, you thinking she will just walk away when you call her on her crap is maybe accurate. Really sad for you to have expended the effort you have on this ice queen and have so little to show for the effort. But, win lose or draw you will be fine, whether it seems so or not. 

Another advantage of a facilitated discussion with a counselor is you can have the entire exchange recorded and avoid her twisting things later for her benefit. Given her personality, wouldn't put anything past her.


----------



## Evinrude58

I cannot fathom being married so many years to a person like this. OP, I wish you’d detail some of her good qualities that have convinced you she’s worth the absolute torture she has put you through.
Does she provide mind numbing sex?
Cook like Julia chiles?
Give you back ribs until you fall asleep?
Keep you laughing constantly?
Make money like bill gates?

there’s got to be something. She sounds like a really bad woman to me.

I had a woman I loved once. She was amazing in bed. No other woman compared. She was brilliant. Incredibly loving at times. A hard worker. Clean. Made lots of money. Liked to travel and do things, and was fun.
But everything was her way or the highway. Her love was totally conditional. And she was super abusive with silent treatment, actually hit me a couple of times, would get super upset if I didn’t do something she wanted, when she wanted. Insanely jealous for no reason.
It was impossible to continue the relationship, even though I loved her very much.

why hasn’t it reached that point with you?
Do you ever ask yourself why you keep letting her hurt you with her words and deeds?


----------



## Asterix

loblawbobblog said:


> She is not and has never been one to fight to keep a relationship, with me or her prior boyfriends. If someone hinted at wanting to split up, she was gone. In fact, a few months ago, before I found out about the ONS's, we were having a heart to heart talk and I said I'm going through some typical midlife crisis ennui, and she said, "If you're planning on leaving me, just do it quick, I'll be fine."
> 
> So again, I'm not concerned with her reaction, I'm concerned with mine once I know the details, if she'll tell me. I'm pretty certain I won't be able to stay in the marriage


Leaving the rest of the thread aside for now, I think this should tell you all that you need to know. All her vindictiveness that resulted in her cheating followed by her lying to you makes it all the more worse to know that she's really not invested in this relationship, or any other relationship for that matter.



loblawbobblog said:


> No, I'm not fearful of how she'll respond. I'd bet good money she will respond as I described in my previous comment. I'm fearful of what I will need to do to preserve my sanity and sense of self-worth, which is to leave the marriage. I don't want that result but I know it's what I'll have to do, regardless of how she responds, and I'm just prolonging the inevitable at this point.


I hear you. Look at it this way: You have a tooth that is aching badly. The dentist tells you that you need to pull that tooth out. It is understandable to be worrying about all the pain that one needs to go through for the tooth extraction process and then dealing with the insurance. However, six months down the road, you won't have the toothache anymore.



jsmart said:


> Neither I nor anyone else in TAM would fault you if you decided to D after getting confirmation of her ONS, especially if that string turns out to be lengthy or that there were other affairs over the years.


Based on what @loblawbobblog writes here, I think his partner won't fault him either if eh decides to get a divorce after getting the confirmation.



loblawbobblog said:


> What she can't abide is someone not totally in it if she's in it.


To me that sounds very duplicitous as in double-standards. So, she can't abide if someone is not totally into it if she's into it. BUT she's perfectly okay if someone else if totally into it while she's not into it. And she's perfectly okay to lie to that person for so long to maintain her cushy lifestyle?



loblawbobblog said:


> She doesn't want to waste time with someone who doesn't want to be with her. I've no fear any longer of that attitude and in fact, have that mindset going into all this.


Then why continue? The reason why I'm asking this question is that:
1. She does not seem too invested in relationship.
2. Based on your replies, it does not look like your heart is into this relationship at this point anymore. Since she doesn't want to waste time with someone who doesn't want to be with her, then, why drag the misery out for yourself and for her?


----------



## Divinely Favored

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Bingo! Me too DV, me too.
> 
> I divorced my first husband asap when I discovered his cheating. To me, cheating is abuse and abuse needs to be cut out of one's life, like a cancer.
> 
> Abuse is abuse. Just think of the topic of physical violence, where a lady is saying her male partner hits her etc. (yes, I know women may hit men too), she's told by many to get out, to leave, that it will get worse.
> 
> People don't tell women who are being physically abused to try and reconcile with their abuser. They are told to get out.
> 
> Somehow, many think a betrayed spouse should try and reconcile with their abuser.
> 
> Cheating is emotional abuse. Cheating is psychological abuse.
> 
> And, in a very real way, cheating many times is physical abuse, for all those who were given STD's from their abusive cheating partner.
> 
> Abuse is abuse, yet while so many tell folks to leave their abuser who is physically abusing them, many tell folks to try and reconcile with their abuser who cheated on them.
> 
> There are many kinds/types of abuse and regardless of what kind of abuse it is, it needs to be excised from one's life.
> 
> I have zero tolerance for being abused, regardless of what type of abuse one perpetrates on me, I'm gone.


Exactly. To me cheating ranks right next to raping someone who is passed out unconscious. No different than drugging a partner and then telling AP to come have sex with your partner.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Evinrude58 said:


> I cannot fathom being married so many years to a person like this. OP, I wish you’d detail some of her good qualities that have convinced you she’s worth the absolute torture she has put you through.
> Does she provide mind numbing sex?
> Cook like Julia chiles?
> Give you back ribs until you fall asleep?
> Keep you laughing constantly?
> Make money like bill gates?
> 
> there’s got to be something. She sounds like a really bad woman to me.
> 
> I had a woman I loved once. She was amazing in bed. No other woman compared. She was brilliant. Incredibly loving at times. A hard worker. Clean. Made lots of money. Liked to travel and do things, and was fun.
> But everything was her way or the highway. Her love was totally conditional. And she was super abusive with silent treatment, actually hit me a couple of times, would get super upset if I didn’t do something she wanted, when she wanted. Insanely jealous for no reason.
> It was impossible to continue the relationship, even though I loved her very much.
> 
> why hasn’t it reached that point with you?
> Do you ever ask yourself why you keep letting her hurt you with her words and deeds?


Hit you🤬. Mom always said, treat a woman like a lady, unless she puts herself in a man's shoes. Woman wants to hit, she is gonna get returned...harder. Will not tolerate that abuse/disrespect.


----------



## SunCMars

What will happen when you confront?

The time bomb goes off according to some inner clock.

Who gets struck, when the clock strikes one?

Both, as the pendulum swings both ways.

Hickory Dikory Dock




_The Typist-_


----------



## SearchingForHope

Hi loblawbobblog, how have you been keeping brother?
Have you made any progress in your relationship with your wife?


----------



## loblawbobblog

UPDATE:

So, I discovered who one of the anonymous one night stands was. I found Facebook messages from 2013 between her and a guy she used to work with from 1999 to 2003 where he mentions a weekend in Vegas they'd spent in 2000 and he asked her if she'd be up for another one, writing, "We haven't done that in 13 years." She thankfully declined but this news hit me like a Mack truck. I knew this guy, she talked about him and I always got a bad feeling about him. I can remember a conversation from back then where she said he'd tried flirting with her and I jokingly said, "Should I beat him up?" and she laughed and said, "Probably."

To compound things, since I confronted my wife about this, she's acted as if I should just get over it immediately since it happened so long ago. She feels like she's being "punished." Meanwhile, I've been in a tailspin, ruminating over every conversation and suspicion from that time, asking her questions, looking at this dude's Facebook and LinkedIn accounts repeatedly as if I could dig up some new nugget of information. I'm really ****ing pissed that she remained in contact with this guy. We moved pretty far away in 2003, they haven't worked at the same company since, from what I could tell from the Facebook messages and what she tells me, they haven't physically seen each other since. But they kept up occasional correspondence that ended in 2015 from what I saw on Facebook. It's total BS.

I asked her if there was anyone else during that time and she said there wasn't, but that doesn't jive with what she wrote in her journal, of which I still haven't told her I've read. But honestly, I don't care anymore, I think I'm done.


----------



## ConanHub

loblawbobblog said:


> UPDATE: I think I'm done.


Fixed it for you.

Please do go be free of this creature and enjoy the rest of your life.


----------



## TexasMom1216

loblawbobblog said:


> I don't care anymore, I think I'm done.


You should be. No one deserves this. Set her loose to be someone else's problem. Or better, no one's problem. Let her be alone so she can be with the only person she really cares about. 😡


----------



## re16

loblawbobblog said:


> To compound things, since I confronted my wife about this, she's acted as if I should just get over it immediately since it happened so long ago.


How long has it been since you discovered this affair? Not long at all. The discovery is current.

You need to be done with this serial cheater.

There is no way you can ever look at her the same or wonder what (who) she is out doing.


----------



## SRCSRC

She should want to fight for the marriage but your description of her clearly shows that she is not that person. I find her comment that she will be just fine if the two of you divorce most revealing. It seems to be a marriage of convenience for her at this point. At least that is how it sounds. You've tortured yourself for 22 years. You could live another 40 years. Do you want to spend it with your WW? I certainly understand your financial concerns. Once your WW gets a job, alimony should be significantly less. Check with a family law attorney in this regard. Do what ever it takes to get yourself out of what seems to be a lifeless marriage. After 22 years of this nonsense I can't image that you still have strong feelings for this person. It doesn't sound that way. Finally, her return to the workforce may reignite her cheating ways. Do you want to be that person who has to wonder and worry about his wife cheating again? What does she do now and what would she do when she goes back to work to allay your concerns especially if her job requires any traveling? 

It seems that those marriages where reconciliation seems to work is where the WS goes above and beyond all expectations in trying to save the marriage. It doesn't sound that is what is happening in your case. You could broach the idea of a divorce amicably with your WW. She may be on board with the idea or may not really care that much. That could play to your advantage in working out a reasonable settlement. If you were to take that approach, don't reveal what you have discovered. Keep things matter-of-fact and reasonable. Once the divorce is final you can unload on your ex-wife then move on if you so desire.


----------



## loblawbobblog

SRCSRC said:


> She should want to fight for the marriage but your description of her clearly shows that she is not that person. I find her comment that she will be just fine if the two of you divorce most revealing. It seems to be a marriage of convenience for her at this point. At least that is how it sounds. You've tortured yourself for 22 years. You could live another 40 years. Do you want to spend it with your WW? I certainly understand your financial concerns. Once your WW gets a job, alimony should be significantly less. Check with a family law attorney in this regard. Do what ever it takes to get yourself out of what seems to be a lifeless marriage. After 22 years of this nonsense I can't image that you still have strong feelings for this person. It doesn't sound that way. Finally, her return to the workforce may reignite her cheating ways. Do you want to be that person who has to wonder and worry about his wife cheating again? What does she do now and what would she do when she goes back to work to allay your concerns especially if her job requires any traveling?
> 
> It seems that those marriages where reconciliation seems to work is where the WS goes above and beyond all expectations in trying to save the marriage. It doesn't sound that is what is happening in your case. You could broach the idea of a divorce amicably with your WW. She may be on board with the idea or may not really care that much. That could play to your advantage in working out a reasonable settlement. If you were to take that approach, don't reveal what you have discovered. Keep things matter-of-fact and reasonable. Once the divorce is final you can unload on your ex-wife then move on if you so desire.


This is really helpful, thanks. And yes, I think our marriage is one of convenience for her. I hadn't really thought of it that way but it really hits home.


----------



## Cynthia

loblawbobblog said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> So, I discovered who one of the anonymous one night stands was. I found Facebook messages from 2013 between her and a guy she used to work with from 1999 to 2003 where he mentions a weekend in Vegas they'd spent in 2000 and he asked her if she'd be up for another one, writing, "We haven't done that in 13 years." She thankfully declined but this news hit me like a Mack truck. I knew this guy, she talked about him and I always got a bad feeling about him. I can remember a conversation from back then where she said he'd tried flirting with her and I jokingly said, "Should I beat him up?" and she laughed and said, "Probably."
> 
> To compound things, since I confronted my wife about this, she's acted as if I should just get over it immediately since it happened so long ago. She feels like she's being "punished." Meanwhile, I've been in a tailspin, ruminating over every conversation and suspicion from that time, asking her questions, looking at this dude's Facebook and LinkedIn accounts repeatedly as if I could dig up some new nugget of information. I'm really ****ing pissed that she remained in contact with this guy. We moved pretty far away in 2003, they haven't worked at the same company since, from what I could tell from the Facebook messages and what she tells me, they haven't physically seen each other since. But they kept up occasional correspondence that ended in 2015 from what I saw on Facebook. It's total BS.
> 
> I asked her if there was anyone else during that time and she said there wasn't, but that doesn't jive with what she wrote in her journal, of which I still haven't told her I've read. But honestly, I don't care anymore, I think I'm done.


She is trying to rug sweep. It's over for her. It's new and fresh for you. Based on what she wrote in her journal, you also know that she is still lying to you. This makes it impossible to trust her and it damages your ability to love her as well.

Has she found a job yet?

I'm sorry this hasn't gotten any better for you. It seems to have gotten worse, because of her response. Her continued lying is normal, but it shows that she's not willing to come clean for you. Of course, you're angry. It's normal for you to feel angry about it. It is impacting your life together to the point that you aren't able to function normally. Something has to change in order for you to be whole again.


----------



## re16

SRCSRC said:


> It seems that those marriages where reconciliation seems to work is where the WS goes above and beyond all expectations in trying to save the marriage. It doesn't sound that is what is happening in your case.


This is very much correct. It is your wife that needs to be putting in the work to save the marriage, not you. She is more concerned with not wanting to process the feelings about what she did because it is uncomfortable for her, than trying to help you heal from the damage. There is no chance in this scenario.


----------



## Lostinthought61

if this guy is married i would get a hold of his wife and information and either tell him or tell his wife directly with copies of the info and once you are done that tell your wife what her transgression has done. god you married a piece of work.


----------



## Rob_1

loblawbobblog said:


> This is really helpful, thanks. And yes, I think our marriage is one of convenience for her. I hadn't really thought of it that way but it really hits home.


So, what are you going to do about it?

Anything at all, or you will just continue to vent? Because you're just thinking that you're done, really, still thinking?


----------



## BoSlander

loblawbobblog said:


> Her journal entry charted her sexual history. She wrote about being faithful since that year.


Needless to say, that was the year she went “off grid.” Have you found strange acronyms or passages that make no sense? My AHA! Moment was when I read a message my wife has sent a friend about her going for “lobster” at a café I knew for sure had no lobster. Once she told me she was going shopping and to get a café or two in a nearby town I kind of knew she was going to meet someone else. Someone she was keeping secret from me.

Little did I know she was getting extra cream on her latte.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> So, I discovered who one of the anonymous one night stands was. I found Facebook messages from 2013 between her and a guy she used to work with from 1999 to 2003 where he mentions a weekend in Vegas they'd spent in 2000 and he asked her if she'd be up for another one, writing, "We haven't done that in 13 years." She thankfully declined but this news hit me like a Mack truck. I knew this guy, she talked about him and I always got a bad feeling about him. I can remember a conversation from back then where she said he'd tried flirting with her and I jokingly said, "Should I beat him up?" and she laughed and said, "Probably."
> 
> To compound things, since I confronted my wife about this, she's acted as if I should just get over it immediately since it happened so long ago. She feels like she's being "punished." Meanwhile, I've been in a tailspin, ruminating over every conversation and suspicion from that time, asking her questions, looking at this dude's Facebook and LinkedIn accounts repeatedly as if I could dig up some new nugget of information. I'm really ****ing pissed that she remained in contact with this guy. We moved pretty far away in 2003, they haven't worked at the same company since, from what I could tell from the Facebook messages and what she tells me, they haven't physically seen each other since. But they kept up occasional correspondence that ended in 2015 from what I saw on Facebook. It's total BS.
> 
> I asked her if there was anyone else during that time and she said there wasn't, but that doesn't jive with what she wrote in her journal, of which I still haven't told her I've read. But honestly, I don't care anymore, I think I'm done.


You knew this already, but she just isn't good wife material. It is too bad it took so long to figure that out. I think it is time to reveal your hand as well as have her serve. Did she graduate and find herself a job?


----------



## blackclover3

@loblawbobblog
what I found many women cheat because they are certain their husbands cant do anything about it, and they are also certain that their husbands will ask to work on things.

the fact that your wife disregarded your feelings and by sayingi "it is was long time ago" is an example of it. 

your son who asked to forget and focus on "now" is selfish and only thinks about his mom and himself

@loblawbobblog *you need to man up*, 50s is the new 20s, this is when you enjoy being an adult, and go out and venture. you can do that on your alone or with someone new that cares about you.

as someone had said, you have another 40 years of your life, find someone better, prettier, more mature...is it fair for your wife to taste someone else and while staying faithful to your master like a little dog? honestly dude, if you stay she will continue day dreaming about the old days how she Fooked several men and how they stratified her without consequences. she will always fantasize about these moments of thrills and lust while seeping next to you and even while having sex. do you know why, because your rewarded her and affair partner by staying. If you leave, then every time she thinks about these moments an image of you leaving will popup and how it shattered her life. 

dont you feel raged that someone saw your wife naked and had his willy inside her? not only that, there might've been a chance you kissed her and had sex with her after she was physical with her partners with a chance before her even taking a shower.

the fact that she kept in contact with that person is a big slap on the face and disregard to you as a person and your feelings. she doesn't see you as a man - I'm sorry for my harsh words but you need to wake up. stop thinking about others and start thinking about yourself for once.

@loblawbobblog wake up man, you deserve something better and cleaner. you are setting an example to your kids and grandkids to be walkover by people and your spouse. do you want your grandkids and even your kids think that you are weak because you stayed? they will always think that even if they dont say it.

proceed with divorce and dont even tell anyone - serve her the papers and let her know you want to find few people to sleep with and taste the other side like her. and if you get dumped you will get back to her one day.

make her a plan B too


----------



## Asterix

loblawbobblog said:


> I think I'm done.


I hope that this gives you a feeling of clarity and for a path forward. It may even feel like a load has been lifted although the significant amount of work is about to begin.


----------



## SearchingForHope

Hi Loblawbobblog,
Thanks for the updates.
As I reread this thread I noted some of the great insights and advice you've received.

It sounds like you've continued to feel the pain, especially as you've continued investigating and also from the confrontation with her over one of the ONS.
Many of us identified with and responded to your comment (#333):
_Agreed, hence the dissonance. I'm really hoping that confronting her and getting it all out in the open for both of us will alleviate the pain I'm in, because if not, I can't stay in the marriage._

I have a couple of questions that you might find helpful to reflect on:
Do you sense that she has any regret for her actions with the affair and ONS?
(honestly, it sounds like she is the queen of rugsweeping)

Are there any signs of remorse or understanding of the pain that you are experiencing?
(I also thought that SRCSRC # 399 had a good insight into the response she should have if she was truly happy #325 and willing to fight for your relationship)

Do you believe that she respects you?
And if not, then why do you believe she doesn't respect you (and/or your marriage)?

I can appreciate the insight that she is content to live in a unhealthy duality (#333) and take the easy option of a quick and painless divorce rather than truly dealing with the affairs and the pain she has caused you.

All the best as you decide the way forward.
A lot of people here can identify with your feelings of uncertainty and pain and want to help and encourage you.


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## BigDaddyNY

This is a long thread and I'm not sure if everyone recalls all that went on here. Some key points in my mind are that his wife attempted to end the marriage by having an affair. What she didn't count on was OP fighting for the marriage. These ONS occurred while she was in that state of mind AND she is totally unaware that he knows about the other sexual infidelity. As far as I can tell there has never been any confrontation with the latest information. I don't think she has ever been fully invested in this marriage.


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## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> This is really helpful, thanks. And yes, I think our marriage is one of convenience for her. I hadn't really thought of it that way but it really hits home.


Didnt you post before that she is finishing up schooling in a profession and has a new job upcoming?

As I recall, you got a lot of advice from here on a lot of aspects. Believe your pain shopping has provided nothing new to the mix.

So you are more miserable than you were 6 months ago. Faced with the same decision. When you can no longer stand to look at her is when you will truly be done. Meanwhile, my advice is to stop torturing yourself. Just assume she has been involved with a series of other men for your entire ‘marriage’. Rip off the bandage.


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## Openminded

If you continue to look for “reasons” to stay you’ll find them. Weren’t you in the process of resolving this early in the summer before you stopped posting about it? Any progress on moving on since then?


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## Evinrude58

This is simple. You divorce her. Tell her if she treats you fairly in the divorce you’ll reconsider dating her AFTER the divorce. That will tell you right away what her true thoughts are. This has to be your choice, she lost the right to have input in your life when she betrayed you in the worst way and broke the contract.


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## BigDaddyNY

Evinrude58 said:


> This is simple. You divorce her. Tell her if she treats you fairly in the divorce you’ll reconsider dating her AFTER the divorce. That will tell you right away what her true thoughts are. This has to be your choice, she lost the right to have input in your life when she betrayed you in the worst way and broke the contract.


Nah, because she'll just have another string of ONS while they are dating.


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## Evinrude58

Who says he will actually date her? When he gets loose from her spell, he will run like she was pointing a taser at his balls.....

but of course she will if she could still atttact a man, I agree.


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## TAMAT

One aspect of your story that is difficult to swallow is that your WW had this story and the possibility of a confession in her mind all this time and never confessed a word of it to you. She could have freed you years ago.


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## Jimi007

You are a glutton for punishment , that's for sure. 

So what now ? Aren't you tired of being hurt ?
Now that you know all / some of what went on behind your back , what will you do with it ?
Infidelity, it's the gift that keeps on giving


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## gameopoly5

loblawbobblog said:


> Ok here's the deal: in early 2000 I found out my wife was having an affair. The signs were obvious but I confirmed it by snooping in her journal. I confronted her, she didn't deny it and said she wanted to leave me. We spent the year in couple's counseling. It was a volatile year, lots of highs and lows but we ended up reconciling. At the time we had one child, but went on to have three kids, the youngest of which is now 18.
> 
> Recently I've been going through a classic midlife crisis (I'm 53), reflecting on the past and my life choices and regrets. I became obsessed with the year of my wife's affair, replaying all the warning signs and arguments we had, which led to me snooping in a recent journal my wife is keeping as part of a program she's in. I found a section she wrote about the affair and then, after breaking it off with the AP, she writes that she then "had a quick succession of one night stands during that period." That part is news to me and it hit me like a gut punch. The timing means she was sleeping with guys while we were in counseling trying to work it out and while I was processing the one affair I knew about.
> 
> I've been spinning ever since. It's been two months and I don't know what to do. I'm seeing a therapist, it's helped to talk it out with someone, but I've yet to confront my wife about it. I don't want to blow up my family, but I'm not sure if I can stay with her once I know the details, like how many is "a quick succession." At least three, otherwise she'd have written "a couple." We've had a rocky marriage but the past 7 years have been really good. Should I let events that happened decades ago make me end our marriage? I don't know. I mean, if I had known back then I wouldn't have fought for our marriage, I would have filed for divorce. I'm ultimately glad that didn't happen as our two younger kids were born after that, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow. We reconciled under false pretenses.
> 
> Yeah, I'm also the guy who found a picture of my wife and her ex in her sock drawer, which only served to ratchet up my anxiety and uncertainty.


When a wife cheats she has not only soiled herself but has also soiled the marriage that can never recover.
Even if a husband tries to forgive and forget, he`ll always have insecurities with the relationship throughout the rest of his married life including images of his wife doing the deed with another guy or guys, wondering if she gave more of herself to other guys for free than she ever gave to her husband who was paying for the privilege.
The OP should have filed for divorce the first time he discovered his wife was cheating.
Now the OP has to decide whether he can continue to live with this or not.
I can honestly tell you, if my wife ever cheated on me, even just a one night stand or a quickie in the backseat of a car, she`d be out the front door within a time period it takes to pack all her crap and if her duck buddies were married I`d be informing their wives.
Good luck if you continue to stay with that.


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## Rus47

gameopoly5 said:


> Even if a husband tries to forgive and forget, he`ll always have insecurities with the relationship throughout the rest of his married life including images of his wife doing the deed with another guy or guys, wondering if she gave more of herself to other guys for free than she ever gave to her husband who was paying for the privilege.


The thing is, OP *DID* "forgive and forget" more than two decades ago. Now he has evidence that other things were going on, other men involved, that he didn't know about back then. And he keeps digging through the junk pile looking for more smelly garbage. Whether he finds anymore or not, he doesn't trust her. She has a history going back to when they first got together and he "rescued" her. He is lashed to a very damaged and deceitful woman.

He is the only one who can cut himself free. From his description of her education, work and planning, she will cut HIM free when it suits her purposes and when she no longer needs him to pay the bills.


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## Rob_1

Rus47 said:


> From his description of her education, work and planning, she will cut HIM free when it suits her purposes and when she no longer needs him to pay the bills.


Absolutely. As a matter of fact I'd bet anything that that will be the end result.

Once she's rolling in her career it will be sayonara sucker. Most likely, she'll find someone at work.


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## Rus47

I notice OP deleted his opening. So maybe he wants the thread closed,


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## Rob_1

Rus47 said:


> I notice OP deleted his opening. So maybe he wants the thread closed,


Or maybe he couldn't deal with the truth and reality hitting him on the face, and he decided to run scared.


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## Zedd

Or he was worried someone he knew found the site and was getting rid of some information a person might be able to correlate to him in real life.


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## Rus47

I would have thought he would just ask mods for help in any case. My suspicion is feedback not appreciated.


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## loblawbobblog

I got what I needed from this thread but don't want the specifics of our situation living on the internets forever. I wasn't aware I could ask the mods to delete. Thanks to all who gave feedback, I really appreciate it.


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## Jeffsmith35

You can ask that the thread be made private. That removes it from being accessed by a Google search.


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## re16

loblawbobblog said:


> I got what I needed from this thread but don't want the specifics of our situation living on the internets forever. I wasn't aware I could ask the mods to delete. Thanks to all who gave feedback, I really appreciate it.


Are you ever going to confront her that you know she had other one night stands?

Are you just going to leave?

What is your game plan at this point?


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## loblawbobblog

re16 said:


> Are you ever going to confront her that you know she had other one night stands?
> 
> Are you just going to leave?
> 
> What is your game plan at this point?


I'm leaving, I'm listening to my gut for once in my life. I'm at the hospital now, my mom just had a health scare, she's fine but it crystallized things for me. Life is short, I'm middle-aged and don't want to spend the rest of my life in pain like this. I know I'll never get over this additional affair, and I know there are others but I just don't care anymore. I'm out, telling her tonight.


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## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm leaving, I'm listening to my gut for once in my life. I'm at the hospital now, my mom just had a health scare, she's fine but it crystallized things for me. Life is short, I'm middle-aged and don't want to spend the rest of my life in pain like this. I know I'll never get over this additional affair, and I know there are others but I just don't care anymore. I'm out, telling her tonight.


I wish you best of luck.


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## re16

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm leaving, I'm listening to my gut for once in my life. I'm at the hospital now, my mom just had a health scare, she's fine but it crystallized things for me. Life is short, I'm middle-aged and don't want to spend the rest of my life in pain like this. I know I'll never get over this additional affair, and I know there are others but I just don't care anymore. I'm out, telling her tonight.


Good luck, happiness is out there, but you are right that you won't find it with her knowing what she did and is capable of.


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## Rus47

loblawbobblog said:


> I know there are others but I just don't care anymore. I'm out, telling her tonight.


Best to you in going forward. You gave it a way better shot than she ever deserved. You are wise to move on with rest of your life. Now it is your time.


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## Rob_1

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm leaving, I'm listening to my gut for once in my life.


I apologize for my previous post. I rushed in judgment with the deletion of your OP. But I based it on your previous posts where you were very ambivalent about your situation.

Hope everything goes well for you tonight. Please, let us know how it went.

Wishing you find the closure you are seeking.


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## RebuildingMe

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm leaving, I'm listening to my gut for once in my life. I'm at the hospital now, my mom just had a health scare, she's fine but it crystallized things for me. Life is short, I'm middle-aged and don't want to spend the rest of my life in pain like this. I know I'll never get over this additional affair, and I know there are others but I just don't care anymore. I'm out, telling her tonight.


I felt the same way and did the same thing as you. Hung around for almost 4 years knowing I’d never get over it. I’ve been divorced for a year and her cheating is not a thought in my brain. You want to stop going down that rabbit hole? Get a divorce.


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## blackclover3

this is the right decision, I wish you all the best
there is a long life a head of you and I'm sure you will meet the right person who loves you and doesnt spread her legs for everyone


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## Diana7

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm leaving, I'm listening to my gut for once in my life. I'm at the hospital now, my mom just had a health scare, she's fine but it crystallized things for me. Life is short, I'm middle-aged and don't want to spend the rest of my life in pain like this. I know I'll never get over this additional affair, and I know there are others but I just don't care anymore. I'm out, telling her tonight.


Its impossible to have a marriage with no trust.


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## *Deidre*

loblawbobblog said:


> I'm leaving, I'm listening to my gut for once in my life. I'm at the hospital now, my mom just had a health scare, she's fine but it crystallized things for me. Life is short, I'm middle-aged and don't want to spend the rest of my life in pain like this. I know I'll never get over this additional affair, and I know there are others but I just don't care anymore. I'm out, telling her tonight.


I was hopeful that you'd come to this conclusion, eventually. No one can make such a decision, only you, and it's good to see you're resolved, now. I hope your discussion goes well tonight. A clover for good luck. 🍀


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## loblawbobblog

RebuildingMe said:


> I’ve been divorced for a year and her cheating is not a thought in my brain.


This is all I want, just to be free of those constant thoughts of her cheating and the pit in my stomach that won't go away.


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## BigDaddyNY

loblawbobblog said:


> This is all I want, just to be free of those constant thoughts of her cheating and the pit in my stomach that won't go away.


That is the least you deserve


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## ElOtro

Diana7 said:


> Its impossible to have a marriage with no trust.


Right.
May be it´s worst than that: when there are no reasons to trust.


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## Evinrude58

You’ll never be happy knowing she doesn’t value you like you value her, and knowing she’s betrayed you multiple times in the past, it’s very likely in the future. You’re making the right call. Wishing you the best because you’ll be in pain for a while. But not forever like it would be if you stayed.


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## oldshirt

loblawbobblog said:


> I know I'll never get over this additional affair, and I know there are others but I just don't care anymore. I'm out, telling her tonight.


You know you don't have to tell her. You can just do it. 

She didn't tell you she was going to bang a bunch of guys, she just did it. 

I mean eventually yeah, she'll have to be served and you'll have to sit down and discuss who gets the comfy chair and who gets the pyrex cookware. But my point is you can just start living your future life today, you don't have to actually discuss it with her or get her approval etc. 

The danger here is you have a 20 year history of clinging on. You think she will just say OK fine, but what if she doesn't. 

What if she turns on the waterworks and says that she is a different person and it's a different time and that things are good now and that you are mistaken? What will you do then? 

Go see a lawyer. Find out your legal rights and entitlements. Call a realitor about selling the house, look up some houses or apartments in an area you might like to live in. Buy a new set of golf clubs and check out a new golf course you've been interested in but have been at home instead because there was a load of laundry you needed to do. Heck, check out a dating app or look up happy ending massage parlors I don't care. The point is you shouldn't care either..... at least not care what she thinks or what she wants. 

You do you from here on out.


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## RebuildingMe

How did it go last night @loblawbobblog ?


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## oldshirt

@loblawbobblog 

I have a tendency to make a lot of analogies and theme references to old movies and TV shows etc, And there is an old Outer Limits episode that I am envisioning in my mind's eye that I can see applying to your situation. 

In that episode, the earth has basically been destroyed by an alien invasion about a hundred years prior during which the earth was left a barren, burned out landscape and only a few descendents of some survivors remain in an encapsulated POW prison and labor camp run by robot guards the aliens left to manage the humans as POW slaves. 

None of the remaining humans had ever been outside of the prison walls and their only knowledge of earth was stories their surviving grandparents had told. 

The actual aliens had left and had stopped sending resupplies and the robot guards were starting to break down and were becoming fewer and fewer in number. 

Some of the people were wanting to start to make escape plans and were plotting to escape. But what was holding the people back was they were being housed and fed and the earth outside was a burned out, barren landscape and toxic polluted and radioactive atmosphere incapable of supporting life. At least inside the prison walls they were warm and sheltered and fed. 

Eventually things inside the prison was becoming too unbearable since the resupply had stopped. The robot guards were breaking down and the people realised they were either going to die of starvation inside the prison or die trying to etch out a survival on the outside. 

They over powered the remaining guards and opened the prison gate. 

What they discovered before them was not a burned out, barren landscape but instead was lush green jungle and garden with trees and plants and sunshine and wildlife. 

In the hundred years they had been enslaved inside the prison, the earth had regrown and replentished itself. Their vision of it being a burned out, barren landscape was false. It was burned out and barren when their grandparents were taken into the prison and those were their memories from a prior time. 

A lot of BS's experience the same thing within their marriage. They know they have it bad in the marriage, but they envision the outside world as harsh and barren and incapable of supporting life. Inside the marriage they are at least sheltered from the elements and are fed but their fear of the outside is greater than their torment on the inside. 

Eventually the torment and pain on the inside outweighs their fear of the outside on their own. 

But for many, when they finally overpower the prison guards that keep them shackled and the blow open the main gate, what they find on the outside is not a toxic, barren wasteland, but a lush green garden and that the world has changed since they first went inside the walls of their marriage. 

This is especially true for men that were very young, scrawny, socially awkward and inexperienced when they married the first girl that talked to them and touched their pee pee 20-30+ years prior. 

Not only is it a different world now, but they are different people with a lifetime of wisdom and experience and personal development.


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## blackclover3

@loblawbobblog you are still young, the most successful relation and social life happens at age 50s, at this age people meet based on maturity and understanding. 

your soon to be ex might be cheating but you are not aware, or something happened to her like a scare of being pregnant or std that stopped her - she didnt stop for you

I'm certain there are more cheating than what you know. 

please leave, and dont tell anyone you are moving on until you get your financial and everything else in check. 

I would recommend you move out, find a place to build new memories and not continue living in a space of constant betrayals


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