# Snooping while everything is good



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Okay, we are constantly giving BSs advice on snooping in the CWI thread. Lately I've been thinking, how about snooping before it's too late? By too late I mean, a fullblown EA/PA.

Let's think about affairs as marital diseases. In most diseases, early diagnosis is important. That's why we do annual or sometimes monthly checkups to catch them early on. Obviously we don't use the big guns in diagnosis while doing checkups, so I don't mean using VARs or GPS etc, just skimming the cellphone bill and texts once a month, checking emails twice a year etc. stuff like that. So why is it so weird to think we should be doing the same in marriages?

Now I understand that women will say "Wow, you're controlling, you don't own her." and men will say "Why should I check on her,she won't do that, she's a good girl" etc. then both of the groups will come together and call me paranoid and distrusting and that I should be with someone I can fully trust. But one of the major things I have seen in the CWI section is the BS saying "I never thought this would happen to me"-obviously a wrong form of thought. Obviously blind full trust doesn't work quite as planned.

Is it really a huge leap into a fcked up state of mind to think that lightly snooping on your spouse can be beneficial? As long as you're not caught, of course.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

There doesn't have to be snooping at all in the first place.

There should be no secrecy. 

The existence of secrecy leads to snooping. 

If there was no secrecy there would be no need for snooping to begin with.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Transparency. You should have every right to see what is going on. That is not snooping. It is being aware.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't see this as a problem whatsoever. However, I'd give full privacy to a diary or journal if there was one. I do believe one is entitled to their own thoughts. 

Both my husband and I are transparent with each other. We keep our passwords in our file cabinet. Neither of us have anything to hide.


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## Anathon (Mar 10, 2013)

If the yellow flags are coming up you do what you feel you have to do. But realize at this point the outcome is usually what you expect.

As husbands we have to make time to listen and talk with our women. They need this more than we do as we work many issues out in the privacy of our heads. 

We need to put work, hobbies aside for a little each night and sit face to face with our spouse and give them an outlet and an avenue to reach out and connect with us. If we neglect to do so women reach out as they have a need to connect and it will be with someone else. Personally, I would rather be that person as I was not before. I was self absorbed with work, taking care of a home and I enjoyed my hobbies. 1 failed marriage later I am trying to learn from my previous mistakes .
Just my 2 cents.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I don't consider what you describe as snooping.

It's just part of my life, I will check my wife's texts if I'm bored and her phone is hanging around.
I don't think she's cheating but I'm curious about what she's up to.

I have access to her e-mail and she frequently needs me to check it for her or set something up on her iPad so I have access to all obvious communication mediums but not for the purpose of "snooping".
However having this access keeps me aware of what's going on in her life when I'm not around.

I do our bills so I see all credit, bank, financial records.
I'm not snooping because I'm just doing the bills but I would notice something out of line and then begin to snoop.

I feel like it's more of a case of being observant of your surroundings.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Shadow:
Would you like it if your wife did some "light" snooping in your e-mail and texts? Wouldn't you get tired of her paranoia and lack of trust in you?

I agree with the previous posters. There should be full transparency in marriage, which means that you know all of her accounts and passwords. If there is a problem with my laptop, my husband looks at everything, and I have no worries about him seeing everything that I have.

Get to know your wife for at least a year before you marry, watch for any red flags, and keep your marriage strong through communication and intimacy. There are no guarantees in life, but you do not want to sabatoge your relationship by unwarranted snooping. Snooping is only justified if you notice signs of cheating.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

lug mauler said:


> well snooping before anything actually happens can kill the relationship. if it doesn't , it definitely does no good for the trust factor.
> 
> *Why? I've seen every girl/women I know check up on their bf/husband's cellphone, wallet etc. "Trust but verify", wasn't really that detrimental to the relationship either. I'm just thinking will it be effective if I implement it.*


Now about the transparency thing. Yes, obviously transparency, strong boundaries, mutual satisfaction in marriage goes a very long way in affairproofing a marriage and not just that, but also making a marriage thrive and making the couple be really happy within it, also of course raising happy,strong and mentally healthy children.

On the other hand, I also think in some relationships it goes the other way around. Michelle Langley reports that in some of the cases she studied, troubles in the marriage started after a new guy(whom the WW was attracted to) had started work in the workplace. Of course this was brought up by the WW in hindsight, after further digging by Mrs(Ms?) Langley. 

What I'm trying to say is, sometimes the strong boundaries and transparency agreements are eroded by outside intervention. Obviously this may not be true in even half the cases, but I guess it happens more than one likes. And due to knowing that the BS has all the passwords, the wannabe WS gets burner phones, new emails etc. So transparency might turn into a window that you can see a part of your spouse, but not the whole deal as it was intended at first.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

lovesherman said:


> Shadow:
> Would you like it if your wife did some "light" snooping in your e-mail and texts? Wouldn't you get tired of her paranoia and lack of trust in you?


Tbh, I never understood why people would even bother with snooping, as infidelity was something was "evil" people would do and you didn't need to check up on your "good" spouse like that. Now I know there is more to life than such black and white thinking. Learning through experience, yay.

Isn't it paranoia when you let it get out of hand? I mean if she starts accusing repeatedly without evidence, yes that would be bad. If she lets these thoughts consume her, check my everything everyday and still not be satisfied and be miserable, yes that would be bad. But with moderation... I dunno, I guess I would be okay with that.

On the topic of getting to know your spouse, I agree with the 2 year deal.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Most affairs start before the participants know they are in affairs. Yes we do see people who out and out cheat. However the majority of situations are from folks who bond too closely with others and then that sucks the life out of the primary relationship.

It is not even that these things progress to PAs at all. Though they may. The damage is done early on and unfortunately the root causes are often entirely missed. Meaning the affairs themselves may not ever be seen for what they are. This is common. I mean very common.

It takes two partners looking out for the marriage. It is not about trusting your partner to not fall in love with another. It is about trusting your partner to have your back and let you know when you are over your head or heading down a bad road. That my dear friends is the type of trust that saves marriages.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I do it ... I think she knows I do it ... I have a clear conscience doing it.


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## I got this (Feb 25, 2013)

Ive never felt sticking my head completely up inside my ass was a good move. I pay attention and fully trust no one.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

I have issues with this. Both with snooping and being snooped on. I am a private person, an adult, and am entitled to have private texts and conversations with people that do not concern my husband. As is he. I NEVER snoop through his things and would be so embarrassed to do so. It just feels wrong. He can have access to whatever he wants, he just needs to ask first. I don't want him reading the convos where my BF spills her heart out to me. Those convos don't concern him and it would be an invasion of my friends privacy as well.
I have full access to his phone and ipad but don't have his email or FB passwords. Same with me, he can use my computer but there is a password on my phone(due to kids, I've told him the password but I'm sure he forgot) and he doesn't have access to my email. That is as it should be, in my opinion.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

To each his own.

My wife is my guardian angel. By giving her complete access to everything, she protects me from stupid decisions.

So it isn't snooping to me.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Anathon said:


> If the yellow flags are coming up you do what you feel you have to do. But realize at this point the outcome is usually what you expect.
> 
> As husbands we have to make time to listen and talk with our women. They need this more than we do as we work many issues out in the privacy of our heads.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

While the OP suggested a regular check by snooping, this is an even earlier stage of detection: How is your spoose feeling, what is he or she thinking about, bothering with. What do they enjoy, what do they miss. How is the intimacy of the relation.

This kind of keeping in touch, is the first 'defence', but it's not really a defence, it's giving nurture to the relation. We should do this first and foremost.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

no problem with snooping.

as a matter of fact I think you would be wise to snoop.

just be ready for what you might find!


if anybody has a problem with their spouce snooping then their hidding something!

might be credit card debt,might be an emotional affiar,or physical affair, might be that they watch porn when your not around. theres a whole bunch of things they mught be hiding.

any woman or man who get pi$$y about their spouce snooping is just not vested in their marriage or total transparency.

a marriage is about trust and if your spouce feels the need to verify then the spouce whos feels like there privacy was invaded most likley was hiding something.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Standing_Firm said:


> Snooping does NOT work, trust me. It only compounds the issue. You have to have complete and utter trust in your significant other............if that does not exist, YOU are the one with the problem in my opinion.


It saved my marriage. So it does work. 

Blind trust is naive, lazy and ambivalent. 

Marriage is about love and respect. Trust is a by-product.

Marriage is a partnership. But I agree this is not a level of intimacy that all people can mature to. You have to be all in with the marriage.

You have to care to observe. It is not snooping. There should be complete transaparency. If not why does your spouse not trust you?

Now you may indeed have emotional issues worth seeing a therapist. We are talking about loving healthy couples. I think you are getting a divorce and you feel you casued it. Maybe you did. I do not know your story and for all I can tell there was infidelity. If there was then blind trust was not the answer.

But the bottomline is that if you need secrecy you are not trnasparent and that is a toxic situation where the marriage is NOT the #1 priority. Some folks are just not into this whole monogamous marriage thing where a couple are partners. They are afraid to share with their partner. Sad really. They do not understand how things work.

So beyond this I believe it is not only a right for a spouse to be in touch with what ss going on but part of the deal. To have each others back. It's called marriage.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> You have to care to observe.


I totally agree with this point however to me this does not require unknowingly checking phones, computers etc. To me this means being totally in tune with your partner to know how they're feeling. I believe in a healthy relationship your spouse is your confidant, your shoulder to cry on, your best friend to party with and so on. If you achieve that they won't have any room for anyone else. 

If you're looking for signs of an affair you're closing the proverbial barn door after the horses have escaped.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I totally agree with this point however to me this does not require unknowingly checking phones, computers etc. To me this means being totally in tune with your partner to know how they're feeling. I believe in a healthy relationship your spouse is your confidant, your shoulder to cry on, your best friend to party with and so on. If you achieve that they won't have any room for anyone else.
> 
> If you're looking for signs of an affair you're closing the proverbial barn door after the horses have escaped.


I speak from experience here. Most affairs are EAs. Most of these are people who do not think they are in EAs. This is rampant. But a spouse can see this as they are not under the influence of brain chemicals. My wife engaged while I was in an EA. I did not know I was too close. She saw it because we had transparency.

Most affairs are not the obvious, I am going to go screw someone. They are co-workers and / or friends who get too close. It feels ok to the people in the affair. This is the early stage. This is when it is salvageable. So one is not looking for hookups at the motel. You are looking for all too intimate exchanges. Not sexual. Intimate. You are not looking even for lying. In my case my wife saw email exchanges. To me they were harmless. We were friends. When I looked at the same emails AFTER withdrawal, it was obvious to me then these were no harmless. This is very common. People who get too close. The damage to a marriage is done at that time. One should not be hiding these exchanges from ones spouse. The spouse should feel free to observe. See it is not snooping if there is transparency. If there is not then one has secrecy. Not good. That is driving blind.

Fix isseus when they are small.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

My wife does this to me. She has all my passwords and I leave everything open. She regularly checks, more often than i know. I am not crazy about it.I never asked for her passwords and I don't check her phone. I trust her and don't feel the need to snoop. If I felt I needed to I would look.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Every so often I check the cell phone bill and emails. I look at my kids' activities along with my wife's. I'm not obsessed with it, which would be unhealthy and weird, but checking once in a while is a good idea. Too many "I never thought my wife would be capable of cheating" stories out there.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm sorry but no. Unless I give my husband a reason I would be upset if he read my text messages and emails I don't care well intentioned he might be. I'm not a cheater I'm a private person. Conversations I have with my GIRL friends are private. 

We've been married for 21 years and I adore him. I don't snoop and neither does he.

I wouldn't care if he checked the numbers and email addresses to see WHO I am talking to just don't read them.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> This kind of keeping in touch, is the first 'defence', but it's not really a defence, it's giving nurture to the relation. We should do this first and foremost.


Oh, most definitely true. I agree that "primary protection" is very important. But I guess snooping and nipping things early in the bud would go into "secondary protection" category, which I also beleve would be beneficial if pulled off correctly.

I guess the benefits of too much individualistic behaviour eludes me. Why hide if you aren't doing shadowy things in the background, you know? It's not like I'm a person who would get jealous out of business interactions or scientific equations being passed around.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

never thought of snooping in 19 yrs of marriage I had complete trust . Didn't care where she went or what she did all was right as rain. and she gave me the same freedom.

and then while off sick one day a bill collector called!

and thats when pandora's box was opened. multiple credit card with what I consider high balances. Kept seceret from me for years!

Now looking back I wish I would have snooped long ago. the trust that was lost will Never be back and I sit and look at her from accross the room and wonder how some one could stab their husband in the back and still sleep at night. the pure shelfishness of letting your husband work extra hours and fix your car until 11:00 at night so you will have a ride to take the kids to their activities. all while you were spending carelessly behind their back.

just boggles the mind.

I for one will never trust another living person as long as I live!

any future relationships will be total transparancy or to the curb with them.

as I age I'm finding more and more people are scumbags! that the average person has no morals and most are out to get for themselves and Fu*k the rest.


I will teach my boys the same, to only trust in yourself!


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I have issues with this. Both with snooping and being snooped on. I am a private person, an adult, and am entitled to have private texts and conversations with people that do not concern my husband. As is he. I NEVER snoop through his things and would be so embarrassed to do so. It just feels wrong. He can have access to whatever he wants, he just needs to ask first. I don't want him reading the convos where my BF spills her heart out to me. Those convos don't concern him and it would be an invasion of my friends privacy as well.
> I have full access to his phone and ipad but don't have his email or FB passwords. Same with me, he can use my computer but there is a password on my phone(due to kids, I've told him the password but I'm sure he forgot) and he doesn't have access to my email. That is as it should be, in my opinion.


I can certainly support your own beliefs and preferences on this. I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong.

We wouldn't be right for each other as spouses. Good thing 'cuz we each already have one. :smthumbup:


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Yes, we snoop on each other. Why? Because the fairy tale cover is blown. We are both individuals doing what we each think is in our own best interest. We are both looking for the same thing: Re-assurance what I see is what I’m getting versus some act. Just verifying my perception of who she is and visa-versa.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Racer said:


> Because the fairy tale cover is blown.


Is it ever really there? I mean I used to believe such things , maybe 6 months or a year ago... But now when I hear someone say to another things like "We are meant for each other." I cringe hard.

I don't think relationships/marriages are something you establish then put on the shelf to be used every anniversary and such.(I hear people going "No sh!t sherlock") To some people this knowledge comes naturally. For me, it didn't and I had to go through(maybe I'm still going through) a lot of heartache to learn. 

Sometimes doing the work necessary may mean snooping. Because I agree with a lot of what Entropy3000 says here:



Entropy3000 said:


> Most affairs start before the participants know they are in affairs. Yes we do see people who out and out cheat. However the majority of situations are from folks who bond too closely with others and then that sucks the life out of the primary relationship.
> 
> It is not even that these things progress to PAs at all. Though they may. The damage is done early on and unfortunately the root causes are often entirely missed. Meaning the affairs themselves may not ever be seen for what they are. This is common. I mean very common.
> 
> It takes two partners looking out for the marriage. It is not about trusting your partner to not fall in love with another. It is about trusting your partner to have your back and let you know when you are over your head or heading down a bad road. That my dear friends is the type of trust that saves marriages.


That "innocent" friendship or that budding attraction may be eating away at your marriage, so insidiously that you don't even get "flags" if you aren't especially observant(and tbh who really is, after such a long term relationship. This is why marriage/LTR's effect on brain is compared to opiads or heroine. It makes you a bit dimmer and complacent unless you are making an effort in staying active.).


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

There is no snooping because in a marriage there is no privacy outside of using the toilet. The two spouses are one flesh, not two separate entities.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Anyway, indeed one size does not fit all. But something for folks to consider.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> We wouldn't be right for each other as spouses. Good thing 'cuz we each already have one. :smthumbup:



Just as well. I doubt could ever be with a guy who'd been badly burned by a woman. I don't want to be judged and punished for someone else's mistakes.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Just as well. I doubt could ever be with a guy who'd been badly burned by a woman. I don't want to be judged and punished for someone else's mistakes.


.....

Well, this is ..... a weird approach to the whole BH population(although I'm not a BH, I'm a BBF?). I ,personally, have lost all illusions and false images in my mind and can clearly see that life isn't black and white. A lot of BH's become like that ,after the pain recedes, I guess. 

Does being proactive mean we judge and punish other women for another women's mistakes? Really?

Wow.... okay.

P.S. On the other hand, I remember I got such interesting responses from a couple of female posters on the paternity testing thread. So again, I'm not that surprised.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Married in VA said:


> There is no snooping because in a marriage there is no privacy outside of using the toilet. The two spouses are one flesh, not two separate entities.



Hmmmm.

A pivotal case in U.S. privacy law was _M.G. vs. J.C._

Briefly, a man suspected his wife of having an affair and started recording her phone calls. He discovered that she was having a same sex affair. He subsequently played the tape for his sister-in-law.

Those two indiscretions cost him $60K out of the joint estate in punitive and compensatory damages. And that was in 1990's dollars

It's not a popular thing to say on TAM and I certainly understand why. Nevertheless, some forms of snooping that are recommended here are not legal. --Not in the U.S.

Snooping can place a weapon in the hands of a cheating spouse. It can get you convicted of a felony.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> never thought of snooping in 19 yrs of marriage I had complete trust . Didn't care where she went or what she did all was right as rain. and she gave me the same freedom.
> 
> and then while off sick one day a bill collector called!
> 
> and thats when pandora's box was opened. multiple credit card with what I consider high balances. Kept seceret from me for years!


This is not the same as snooping in my opinion. BOTH spouses should periodically check credit reports, tax returns, bills paid and other financial records.

Snooping defined: to pry into the private affairs of OTHERS. 

When you are married finances are not private.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Just as well. I doubt could ever be with a guy who'd been badly burned by a woman. I don't want to be judged and punished for someone else's mistakes.


Such irony. 

You just proved yourself to be the person who judges others for something their ex-spouse did.

You claim they are going to judge and punish you just because they were burned before. That does not follow logically. 

Some are here saying it is just good marital policy, not that it had anything to do with being burned before. I would imagine there are also people who would accept your demands for privacy regardless of whether they had been burned before. 

Between myself and my wife, she's the one doing the checking and I am her first relationship ever. I do acknowledge checking on her in the very beginning, but I see the words "judged and punished" as pretty inappropriate when I have permission to do it.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

A lot of the pro snooper's posting here are using being burned before as a reason for checking up on their current partner. To me that indicates they do not, will not, trust their current partner due to having been burned by the previous one.

I don't want to be treated like that. I didn't hurt you...I'm innocent. You, as my husband, snooping on me is indicative of *your* insecurity and not me being untrustworthy. 

My husband is not my father. He does NOT have the right to know who I talk to and what I say unless I want him to. We have a good relationship so if he were to ask, I would tell him honestly. But he should not think he has any sort of right to that information just because we are married. Same goes for him. I don't know who he talks to when he's chatting on facebook. He is a grown man, he can talk to whoever he wants. I don't control him and he doesn't control me. We trust each other.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

He is not my father. LOL. I love that one.

Seriously though. After reading your thread please consider that sex is about intimacy. Consider opening up to each other. I mean actually trusting each other and being closer period. Being trusting enough for transparency. Just food for thought.

I mean seriously your husband does not have the right to know who you talk to? Wow. This is certainly a choice. But you insisting that transparency is just for those who have been burned is a bit disengenuous. Transparency is for healthy marriages.

I get that you have reason to not want a man to dominate you. So perhaps this is part of it. You want to hide something away about you in a safe place and not completely share yourself. You want to be in control.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Snooping without good cause comes across as paranoid to the extreme. If I found out that I had been snooped on then I would lose a lot of respect for him, it would cause a problem where one did not previously exist. It would be a stupid act.

I don't snoop, it is a negative act that suggests the other party is guilty and untrustworthy. Have never looked on anyone's phone or email.
Mid 40's and never cheated or knowingly been cheated on. I can understand the paranoia from those that have been through this horrible experience but not everyone lives this way.


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Yeah, the "My husband is not my father" and "controlling" reference.

I'll keep my eye out for the story in Coping with Infidelity. 

Concur, whatever works.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> Hmmmm.
> 
> A pivotal case in U.S. privacy law was _M.G. vs. J.C._
> 
> ...


How many times have you posted this? LOL.

The OP used snooping but some of us are saying not snooping but transparency. Transparency is not illegal in Western Society thoough some mught like it to be.

I do agree if a spouse refuses transparency it says much about the relationship. Just my opinion. I am not for snooping per se. if you have to snoop there are bigger issues. If my spouse had to have things passworded and hidden I would not want to be with them at all.

If your spouse will sue you for looking at their texting habits then best to throw them into the world and find a better one.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> How many times have you posted this? LOL.


I've said it *a lot.* The level of naivete and computer illiteracy on this site is (sometimes) absolutely staggering. 

Ultimately, I'm trying to have a clear conscience and maybe that's completely selfish. I do know that I get asked to verify the existence of spyware on smart phones and computers pretty much on a weekly basis these days. Most of these appear to be family law cases. 




Entropy3000 said:


> The OP used snooping but some of us are saying not snooping but transparency. Transparency is not illegal in Western Society thoough some mught like it to be.
> 
> I do agree if a spouse refuses transparency it says much about the relationship. Just my opinion. I am not for snooping per se. if you have to snoop there are bigger issues. If my spouse had to have things passworded and hidden I would not want to be with them at all.


This distinction is important. Transparency is granting your spouse or SO access to everything and that is a valuable lesson I've learned from you and others on TAM. Snooping is taking that access without their permission. Big difference.

There is a common internet misconception that marriage obviates all privacy law and that's what I was specifically responding to. It most certainly does not. Virginia is actually one of the states with laws in place against this. 





Entropy3000 said:


> If your spouse will sue you for looking at their texting habits then best to throw them into the world and find a better one.


I do understand that. The problem though is civil suits happen as *retaliation* for throwing, "them into the world and find[ing] a better one." Ultimately, *you* put that weapon into their hand.

I would guess a lot depends on your stage in life. If you're at a stage where you own multiple properties and are counting on that for retirement, a civil suit following a divorce can wreck your life.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> I've said it *a lot.* The level of naivete and computer illiteracy on this site is absolutely staggering.
> 
> *Indeed. * *But you help make a further case for transparency.*
> 
> ...


*Your conscious is clear now.*
*
So to some up then. Make your stand with transparency. We agree! Awesomeness. 
*


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Just leave your card at the door. LOL.


No need....We're not neighbors

If you are ever (God forbid) truly interested, I can recommend someone in your neck of the woods.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> No need....We're not neighbors
> 
> If you are ever (God forbid) truly interested, I can recommend someone in your neck of the woods.


Yes God forbid.

I am not religious but in this case I will take all the help I can get.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> :iagree:
> 
> While the OP suggested a regular check by snooping, this is an even earlier stage of detection: How is your spoose feeling, what is he or she thinking about, bothering with. What do they enjoy, what do they miss. How is the intimacy of the relation.
> 
> This kind of keeping in touch, is the first 'defence', but it's not really a defence, it's giving nurture to the relation. We should do this first and foremost.


I want to add, that if we don't have sex for some day's, which is quality time for us, I literally feel we are experiencing a growing distanciation, very subtle but in a small number of days very noticable.

This is for two reasons, first we _miss the intimacy_, by the erotic time for eachother is now lacking, and if we have good sex, then and the time inbetween a lot of cudling is involved. 

Second the reason for not having a lot of sex is that we both, or one of us _is too busy_, meaning there is less time to be together, is tired, get irritable earlier, feels depressed sooner, sees more problems, tend to argue more.

So the importance of good sex (erotic coupling) is for me, together with being able to talk and connect on a deep psychological level, enormous. And I think with a lack of these two you miss the beauty of what a relationship can be. 

It starts with taking time for these two points and making that a priority above all...which can be difficult.

I know, but you have to make a choice on what you want to work, your career, a bigger house, better car, newer furniture or a better relation.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do, just don't get caught. My STBX has earned my trust this way, I'm simply not the type to believe anything anyone says, unless that person proves to me the weight of their words by their action. I still do respect her for it.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Snooping to me is putting a keylogger on the computer, spyware on their phone and a VAR under their car seat. This is taking it too far unless there is suspicious activity. It's taking it too far when one accuses the other of cheating or other things that are not true.

Snooping to me is not going through cell phone texts, emails or other computer related sites. Especially when the passwords are readily available. This to me is transparency. 

My husband can look through my text all he wants. I have nothing to hide and neither does my husband. We have browsed each others computers in the past, but not very often at all. I also have never spoken ill of my husband either, he's a wonderful man. I only go in his wallet when I'm looking for cash. He will go into my purse when he needs that cash I took out of his wallet if there's any left.

I look in the computers history to see what the kids are up to. I do think its important to monitor children's computer activity at all times, especially when they are a little older.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Snooping to me is putting a keylogger on the computer, spyware on their phone and a VAR under their car seat. This is taking it too far unless there is suspicious activity. It's taking it too far when one accuses the other of cheating or other things that are not true.
> 
> Snooping to me is not going through cell phone texts, emails or other computer related sites. Especially when the passwords are readily available. This to me is transparency.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

One advantage to this is you might find a friend/coach/coworker/boss/stranger inappropraitely contacting your spouse. They may feel that it is either nothing or not worth escalating. Sometimes people are reluctant to shut people down for various reasons. But indeed you need to know. People will fish by acting like they are joking. Plausible denial. Good to know who is approaching your spouse in this way. They may not see it. This is the point. You are bing their wingman. Seeing things that are in their blindspot. We all have them.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

To me transparency is like honest communication. I truly think it is much needed in every marriage, but tbh it only works if the partner is in the deal completely. If he creates a new email account to chat with people(even if it's all "clean" stuff), if she has a burner phone for "girl talks" and "innocent fun" , if,when asked how their day was, they "forget" to talk about the hot intern chick/hunky client they chatted up flirtatiously, while reliving it in their minds over and over, that destroys transparency and leaves only an illusion of transparency. And apparently the illusion of transparency, of safety is even more destructive than flat out not knowing anything about your spouse, because it pulls a blinder over your eyes and disables your ability to take action if need be. 

And just to be clear, I am not suggesting anyone to VAR their spouse's cars and set keyloggers on computers and spy software on cellphones etc. If you can pull that off in a LTR/marriage and not go insane, while also leading a healthy, productive life with time to spare of hobbies, I'll take my hat off to you.

Obviously even in "mild snooping", there is a constant danger of going tumbling down a slippery slope of jealousy and insecurity. Thus a set of rules has to be set in place by the snooper, as in "I won't check his texts more than once a week" "won't check her e-mail more than once a month." "won't smell his shirts for perfume more than once every three days." etc. I used the numbers, times and ways of snoopage randomly, your experience may differ. And again these rules must be followed rigidly and no "oh once more won't hurt" allowed. Of course this is until a red flag or yellow flag?(dunno what that is) comes up.

I know that some people think this would be a stupid, insecure, trust destroying behaviour. I kinda think of the whole deal as mate-guarding. Mate-guarding doesn't have to be collossal stuff like "Hey, you're not going to that pickup club with your three newly divorced friends who have all cheated on their husbands during their marriage". Except for a small percentage of people, nobody wakes up and goes "Yeah, I'm going to fck everything up fully and destroy everybody in my life" They get caught in it. Sometimes it's affairs, sometimes it's drug addiction etc. Mostly it's affairs lol. If you don't want your mate to be vigilant and have your back, than who is supposed to?

I also think that lots of women(at least the ones I know) already do these stuff, maybe not in such a planned way though. It's when men do these stuff that all hell breaks loose: "Insecure" "You're not my father!"(who's yo daddy) "You don't own me" There seems to be a lot of prefeminist era anger in women that I don't understand.

Now to play devil's advocate to myself: Snooping may mean fear of being vulnerable without being in full control. That is something I think everyone should avoid. On the other hand, mild snooping doesn't grant full control, far from it.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

And to the "badly burnt" issue I have to say this: The best way for a person to grow is by experience. Some good, some bad, some should be made into a drama movie as "how fcking sad can this person's life get?". Learning valuable lessons are very important, not becoming bitter while learning them ,even more so.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I agree this is a good debate. People have varying views on the subject. It seems pretty obvious we each bring our own bias to the debate based on our life experiences.

Several years ago when my wife at the time took up with another man I did a lot of snooping. It started with her telling me she wasn't happy and her words not adding up. When I went looking through her e-mail to find discussions with girlfriends to figure out what the root issues were I instead found a budding relationship with an old boyfriend. Further investigation turned up cell phone bills with hundreds of dollars in long distance and a bank statement with wired cash transfers. 

During the next several months she would make commitments to break off contact only for me to find....through snooping...that she had found another mode of contact. This cycle repeated itself many times over. 

When I look back on this I'm ashamed of my snooping. I feel I belittled myself by engaging in it. I wish I had had the self esteem to look her in the eye and ask her if she really wanted to be with me. If she'd said no or my gut told me her yes was a lie then call it quits. I wish I had had the strength to do that. 

So my bias is that I associate shame and powerlessness with snooping. Apparently others had more positive outcomes from snooping. I respect their opinions. I can only speak for my opinion.

My position today is that I will not lower myself to snoop. If my gut is telling me my partner is hiding something from me I will deal with her face to face...not by snooping. If I'm not satisified with her answers I will end it. To me it doesn't matter if she's actually having an affair or I only think she's having an affair. Both are equally damaging to me.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> .
> 
> 
> I also think that lots of women(at least the ones I know) already do these stuff, maybe not in such a planned way though. It's when men do these stuff that all hell breaks loose: "Insecure" "You're not my father!"(who's yo daddy) "You don't own me" There seems to be a lot of prefeminist era anger in women that I don't understand.
> ...


I can only speak for myself, in that I am a woman and I don't snoop on my husband. I find it disrespectful and dishonest. It is disrespectful to my husband to treat him like a child, to try to control him, to TAKE away his privacy. That isn't right in my book and I expect the same from him. We've had discussions about this, as he has fallen into the trap of snooping before. When I pointed out that it was disrespectful, and it was something that I never have, nor will, do to him, it was like a lightbulb went off for him. He finally 'got' it. 

Honestly, I cringe at the thought of going through his things. I'd feel like a thief or an intruder. It's just so wrong, IMO.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Being transparent is not controlling or disrespectful in any way. It's a mutual agreement between the couple. Every married couple has their own individual boundaries as well.

Not once have I ever disrespected my husband, nor has he of me. Even when we browse each others texts. Like Entropy said, we are each others "wingman" and looking out for each other. 

Being controlling is telling another how to live their life against their will and forcing them to live their way. Also, when two people agree to be transparent, they have a better chance of surviving a marriage.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I think there is a difference between a couple being transparent, where both agree to it and snooping. The thread for me was about snooping when things are good. I believe full transparency is what's best for marriage but I also believe if you snoop hard and long enough you will find something you won't like about your partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

richie33 said:


> I think there is a difference between a couple being transparent, where both agree to it and snooping. The thread for me was about snooping when things are good. I believe full transparency is what's best for marriage but I also believe if you snoop hard and long enough you will find something you won't like about your partner.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. This discussion is about snooping, not mutual transparency. Snooping is looking without your mate's knowledge. That denotes mistrust and insecurity, not admirable traits. And you will just stir up trouble. Like the pp said, snoop hard enough, you will find something you don't like. Since you are snooping you are already in the mindset to blame your spouse for some perceived misbehaviour or you wouldn't be looking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

There is a word game being played.

If one agrees to transparency, then one spouse looking at another's email or web browsing history is not snooping.

If one does not agree to transparency, then exactly the same act is defined as snooping.

So let's not pretend that you can hog the thread where only your own preferred definitions and agreements prevail. I can see that the same act is either an invasion of privacy or not, depending on the couple, and have an open mind about what spouses agree to. And I am not hurling epithets at how childish or insecure one set of people are when I can just as easliy get on my high horse and accuse others of being childishly naiive, gullible, and stupid. 

There isn't any reason to be nasty.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Who is being nasty?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> ..........
> I also think that lots of women(at least the ones I know) already do these stuff, maybe not in such a planned way though. *It's when men do these stuff that all hell breaks loose: "Insecure" "You're not my father!"(who's yo daddy) "You don't own me" There seems to be a lot of prefeminist era anger in women that I don't understand.*
> 
> .....


No sorry mate, just because some of us have a different spin on this does not mean we are coming at it from a place of anger. That is such a weak cop out, instead can't you just accept that some of us have a different POV. Not everyone agrees with you, deal with it.

The OP was "snooping while everything is good" I would hate to be a person that snooped while everything was good, it is disrespectful and IMO could lead to problems that do not exist. That does not mean I am an angry person, in fact I am the complete opposite. What it means is that I have a different POV to you.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Snooping is looking without your mate's knowledge. That denotes mistrust and insecurity, not admirable traits. And you will just stir up trouble.
> 
> Like the pp said, snoop hard enough, you will find something you don't like.


Okay, so snooping is bad because the snooper is "insecure and mistrusting"(if we add "controlling" here we get the modern man's nightmare trifecta). Or is it bad because it will make me find something bad and liberate the snooper of not having to live his life based on a lie?

snoop hard enough, you will find something you don't like. 

Ya, this is the endgoal of snooping. To find things you don't like.So you can take action. I don't get this being a problem?

And frankly it's okay for a person to shove a false image of themselves down somebody else's throat, but it's bad for that person to unearth that? Hmmm.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Okay, so snooping is bad because the snooper is "insecure and mistrusting"(if we add "controlling" here we get the modern man's nightmare trifecta). Or is it bad because it will make me find something bad and liberate the snooper of not having to live his life based on a lie?
> 
> snoop hard enough, you will find something you don't like.
> 
> ...


I've found throughout my life, it's only bad when they know about it. If you can keep it a secret, it is okay. I got this from women. Yes I know some in real life. LOL I found this out between marriages when I was searching for answers. I asked women friends, not lovers.

Edit: My second wife, who assured me she did not do it, asked why I had certain pictures still in my possession. I asked how she knew because I had them stored away out of sight. She only let me know because it bothered her enough. That's when they are willing to admit the truth. How can a woman be nurturing if she doesn't know what you need? My bet is, she will look for a problem if she does not obviously find one. Then she will try to nurture you back to health. That ought to shake up this thread, Shadow. I hope you didn't think I was trying to kill it.  I really was not.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Holland said:


> Not everyone agrees with you, deal with it.


Okay, I kid, but you hurt.

On a more serious note... It's okay to call other people's POV insecure, controlling and being the problem in the relationship. But it's wrong to show the anger in that. I get where you are coming from. 

Now I'm unable to deal with not everyone agreeing with me. Because I give opinions and challenge ridiculous threadkillers in a debate-like topic. Mmmhmm girl, you tell it like it is.

If we are going to attack people and spout off cliches, instead of giving a viable opinion of WHY snooping is wrong and would be detrimental to the relationship, let's keep it to ourselves. 

I've written why I think it would be beneficial. As opposing ideas in responses, we have "insecure", "mistrusting", "he's not my father", "if you don't trust fully, you are the problem in the relationship" etc. Nothing very solid.

About trusting fully(or blindly as I try to put it) I agree with Entropy3000 as in it's naive, lazy and ambivalent. There is a concept in psychology called "healthy mistrust" which I think very beneficial for a lot of people to practice.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> snoop hard enough, you will find something you don't like.
> 
> Ya, this is the endgoal of snooping. To find things you don't like.So you can take action. I don't get this being a problem?.


I disagree with you there. Snooping's end goal is to verify the information projected your way matches who they are when they don't think you are watching.

It is reassuring when what you find aligns with who you are allowed to see.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Okay, I kid, but you hurt.
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by this.
> 
> ...



It is far healthier to be open and honest up front, to set boundaries and have good communication. To come at it from the other side and be a sneaky snooper is underhanded and when you get caught you will have ruined what could have been a great relationship.

Where in anything I have posted is there any anger? Perhaps this is an issue for you, you seem to see anger where there is none.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Holland said:


> It is far healthier to be open and honest up front, to set boundaries and have good communication. To come at it from the other side and be a sneaky snooper is underhanded and when you get caught you will have ruined what could have been a great relationship.
> 
> Where in anything I have posted is there any anger? Perhaps this is an issue for you, you seem to see anger where there is none.


my opinion is most times if you feel it in your gut or something is not quite right but you just can't put your finger on it you best be sleeping with one eye open!

no matter how open and honest you think your relationship is.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Okay, I kid, but you hurt.
> 
> On a more serious note... It's okay to call other people's POV insecure, controlling and being the problem in the relationship. But it's wrong to show the anger in that. I get where you are coming from.
> 
> ...


I feel like you are addressing me in this reply. I don't see where I have been ridiculous, angry, or attempting to derail the thread. I have stated that snooping without your spouses prior consent is disrespectful and indicative of an insecure and possibly damaged person. I don't understand why anyone would ever feel it's ok to violate someone's privacy like that. Think about it for a second, without any baggage or emotional responses. In the first place, what gives one the right to TAKE information that your spouse hasn't freely given you, in the absence of any suspected misconduct? Secondly, what of the privacy of the people the spouse may have been in conversation with? How dare you read private texts and emails that may contain sensitive information? Think for a moment about the third parties involved here. I know for a fact that my husband has absolutely no right whatsoever to know what is going on in my friends personal lives. None at all. That is a barrier of trust that should never be crossed. I don't interfere with his friends, he doesn't interfere with mine. 

Snooping without cause IS an issue of control. The snooper is trying to preempt a problem, trying to maintain total control of the relationship. That is impossible. You can never be in control of another person, no matter what you do. Thinking otherwise is an illusion, to salve the emotions of the snooper. It is a classic sign of insecurity. Grasping for control of the uncontrollable.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I agree with the first paragraph here. I wonder, how would you go about verifying your trust in your husband? Would you ask friends what they know about his honesty?


It is an interesting question and we are all come at this from the angle of our own experiences. Have to admit that cheating has never been an issue in my life, not personally, not within my circle of friends and family. I do not know of any of my friends/family that have been cheated on or that have cheated, sure it may have happened but in all the relationships that have ended in divorce not one has been from cheating.
So yes my perspective is skewed in the opposite direction, I get that.

So how to verify trust, personally I think it is something that your instincts tell you and until there is any evidence to the contrary then I would not snoop. To me snooping is not a proactive stance it is a destructive action. It would create a negative environment where one did not previously exist. Call me naive if you want but I'm not, I am very intune with people and can work out very quickly if a person is not the type I want in my life. 

I trusted my instincts with my ex and in the almost 20 year relationship cheating was never an issue. Your instincts can tell you if a person is a good or a bad person. 

Dishonest people give themselves away very easily, if a persons words and actions do not align or aren't congruent then that is a signal to me.

ETA I have never asked friends about a partners honesty but looking closely at a persons friends and family is always prudent and can tell you a lot about a man.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Not sure I understand the question but the answer is transparent. If you think evasive then can you explain why?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Because I didn't think you answered my question.  I asked what you did and you answered how you thought things should be done, not how you do them. I thought by your answer, you were being evasive. Now let's look at this a minute. Don't get angry.
> 
> If you were being evasive there, and I don't say you were, how would you want me to handle that? See I have this gut feeling from experience that you were, but I can't prove it. That's okay. I'm not angry at all. If I ask you to explain yourself and I'm no satisfied with the answer, how do we continue and move forward? Should I ask a close friend of yours? I don't think that would help the relationship. Should I 'trust' you until you prove me wrong? Is it better to check the bills and anything else you have written to verify your honesty?
> 
> ...


Firstly I don't get all the anger comments, can't adults have dialogue without some using an accusation of anger? In my world dialogue, discussion and debate are common day events, just because people disagree doesn't mean they are angry. Is this something some of you guys deal with IRL perhaps?

I think I did answer your question. I have always used my instincts and observation to gauge a man's trustworthiness. So no I have not been evasive at all. I use instinct in a proactive way, does this make sense? 
To date this has proven to be the right way for me. 

OK here is another take on instincts. I have never been ripped off, abused or been in a dangerous place by a man I know personally (have been beaten by a random but that has nothing to do with the topic of instincts when it comes to interpersonal relationships).

I am happy to answer any question if relevant to the discussion. I do get the feeling that you struggle to believe that a woman can trust her instincts and rely on that to gauge a man's worth but it has got me to my mid 40's and still doing OK.



> I asked what you did and you answered how you thought things should be done, not how you do them. I thought by your answer, you were being evasive. Now let's look at this a minute.


and I answered what I do, have always done which just happens to also be how I think things should be done.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

> 2ntnuf
> Member
> 
> 
> ...



OK I think I get it now. Me being proactive I think is similar to what you are saying about asking questions of a potential spouse.

So I have never done that in a snooping way (keeping the relevance to the OP). It is just a given that in the process of getting to know a potential partner that you have open discussion and out of that comes their life story. From there you make your value judgements on a persons character. This is where using your instincts comes into play.

I have never asked a partners friends, family etc what they thought of that person, never looked into someone past, credit ratings etc. I think this sort of information is better straight from the person in question as part of a normal process of getting to know someone. 

To me this is vastly different to snooping. So yes I am a seeker of information about a partner but no I have never done it via snooping, it is always via direct conversation with that person.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Holland said:


> Firstly I don't get all the anger comments, can't adults have dialogue without some using an accusation of anger? In my world dialogue, discussion and debate are common day events, just because people disagree doesn't mean they are angry. Is this something some of you guys deal with IRL perhaps?
> ...


(I heard mention there is a kind of law that in internet discussions it's only a matter of time before participant are ready to kill eachother. You see it everywhere demonstrated.

On TAM not so much, so there must be a factor of education and frustration toleration in the equation.)
:scratchhead:

Yes, you are right, we have to be able to discuss and accept disagreement!


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Snooping without cause IS an issue of control. The snooper is trying to preempt a problem, trying to maintain total control of the relationship. That is impossible. You can never be in control of another person, no matter what you do. Thinking otherwise is an illusion, to salve the emotions of the snooper. It is a classic sign of insecurity. Grasping for control of the uncontrollable.


The point is that you can control the relationship to a certain amount. This is many times illustrated in the CWI forum in the actions and results of the BS's. You can break the Fog for instance, tell family and friends, tell the WS to go and have fun with the AP, etc. etc.

The other point is, that if you think about snooping in the first place, 'not everything is OK' in the first place. I think there always is a very small suspicion working in your brain. 

Then the next problem can be if you find some things, are you paranoid or are you being 'gas lighted'??

You cannot know the difference in these two cases by yourself. You need more 'evidence'. If you were being paranoid, you will get more of it. If you were not, you will get more evidence, for good or for bad.

So there is a value in accepting the troubles of life, also in a relation, and choose for trust and honesty from your side. Talk with your spouse and ask them about thing to check how the situation is. Leave it then with that untill you really find evidence that matters.

There is in the CWI forum also enough motivation by many stories to keep a vigilant eye on what happens with your spouse. Too many people wish they had looked earliers and deeper into possible suspect matters.

It's a devils dilemma.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

LOL, I think you need to be wise, but we are far from a open book for no other reason than it seems wierd to us. My wife has never picked up any phone, computer, or anything else of mine and started "looking for stuff" it would be so out of character for her. This is going on 15 years!!

I much the same I can't tell you the last time I said "Honey, Gimme your phone!" unless it was to make a call.

I don't say gimme your emails or let me log into your work computer and look around. I don't see how this is even sorta normal.

Maybe if our dynamic was different or one of us didn't work it would be different, but we are both so wrapped up in each other's life and the kids too......lol. Where would we fit the time to cheat? We txt 20 times a day, talk 5-6 times day, and that's just during work hours. After work it's just us. No girls night, no guys night, we have date night, family night, and as many freak nights as we can life is packed!!

She goes on trips from time to time for work as do I ALONE, so I guess it could happen there. Or unless she is cheating on medical mission trips in Syria I doubt it.

Whatever works for each one of us is all that matters!! When I see a flag I'll snoop but until then it feels so wrong!! She deserves some privacy. I know that's the beginning of the end lol


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm for a willing giving Transparency  in all things.... I am happy that my husband WANTS to know everything, and that he appreciates all my rambling on whatever is happening in my life & he gives the same in return.

This has always been ENOUGH for me & him over the years, I have never questioned him being the least shady in anything... his actions have always lined up with his words......and he's never questioned me ...as I have always been so very forthcoming...running to him with it all. I never LIE, even if it hurts... he says he'll take the good with the bad. 

I'm one of those people who wears their







on their sleeve, if something was bothering me...he knows me all too well....my spirit would be fragmented /an unsettling there.... I would not be able to contain my "waywardness" against this good man...the guilt would eat at me....

This doesn't mean I have never had times where I was questioning, cause I have ...while dating...and 4 yrs ago -when I questioned his desire for me.... but I was so honest & expressive about it.....he knew exactly where I was.... and we talked through it all....It's just always been "our way". He knows all my passwords...every forum I go to...anything & all I get into, who I talk too, all of it...we share.

 



> *Married in VA said:* There is no snooping because in a marriage there is no privacy outside of using the toilet. The two spouses are one flesh, not two separate entities.










With us, we don't even care about privacy there ! Sometimes when he gets home, I'll follow him up to the bathroom- and we'll talk about our day in there...all he cares is privacy to "wipe" - that's what he told me !


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Racer said:


> I disagree with you there. Snooping's end goal is to verify the information projected your way matches who they are when they don't think you are watching.
> 
> It is reassuring when what you find aligns with who you are allowed to see.


I see a problem with this though. Logically you can't prove a negative. 

For instance , if your spouse were to tell you she texted her sister you could check her phone and indeed confirm she texted her sister. Were your spouse to tell you she didn't text that new guy at work checking her phone and not finding the text doesn't prove it didn't happen. 

How far are you prepared to go to verify your partner is being truthful? If your spouse is devious enough you would never find out. 

It's true through snooping you could find inappropriate behaviour and nip it in the bud. It's also true you could drive yourself nuts trying to find evidence of what you already know in your gut to be true and not finding it.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Think about it for a second, without any baggage or emotional responses. In the first place, what gives one the right to TAKE information that your spouse hasn't freely given you, in the absence of any suspected misconduct?


This is the true challenge. If it's too late after the misconduct and you can't take action before the misconduct is set in place. Then what do we have? A trophy for being very secure?



> Secondly, what of the privacy of the people the spouse may have been in conversation with? How dare you read private texts and emails that may contain sensitive information? Think for a moment about the third parties involved here.


Just to be clear, by snooping, I don't mean going round stealing and selling information. I certainly don't mean interfering with other people's relationships and such. (although if I found an unrelated affair by snooping, I'd be obligated to inform the betrayed party.) On the other hand that is one of the things to look out, anyway. Your spouse dabbling with people in affairs. 

So what is information that is so sensitive? I understand this may sound entitled, but I really don't understand how it may be that there is knowledge out there that I can't know, even if I won't do anything about it.



> Snooping without cause IS an issue of control. The snooper is trying to preempt a problem, trying to maintain total control of the relationship. That is impossible. You can never be in control of another person, no matter what you do. Thinking otherwise is an illusion, to salve the emotions of the snooper. It is a classic sign of insecurity. Grasping for control of the uncontrollable.


Yes, this is the one of the problem that comes up when I think about it. Is it about not trying to be vulnerable and being control or is it about checking your surroundings and trying to see a full picture once in a while?

I feel it's the latter as snooping in itself really gives you no control over the actions whatsoever. So you found your spouse in a "friendship" and "oh they were just jokes." Not very much control if your concerns can get tossed aside. So it's the relationship's strength that counts first.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> There is in the CWI forum also enough motivation by many stories to keep a vigilant eye on what happens with your spouse. Too many people wish they had looked earliers and deeper into possible suspect matters.
> 
> It's a devils dilemma.


I think the take home message is you disregard rules of mateguarding at your own peril.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

> This is the true challenge. If it's too late after the misconduct and you can't take action before the misconduct is set in place. Then what do we have? A trophy for being very secure?


You have a relationship, where both parties are equal. Build the strongest good faith relationship you can and that is how you control your fate. You can't control what your partner does. You can control how you behave in the relationship. Be the best YOU can be and build up the trust and respect in the relationship. Don't tear it down with sneaking and snooping. 



> Just to be clear, by snooping, I don't mean going round stealing and selling information. I certainly don't mean interfering with other people's relationships and such. (although if I found an unrelated affair by snooping, I'd be obligated to inform the betrayed party.) On the other hand that is one of the things to look out, anyway. Your spouse dabbling with people in affairs.
> 
> So what is information that is so sensitive? I understand this may sound entitled, but I really don't understand how it may be that there is knowledge out there that I can't know, even if I won't do anything about it.


For brevity's sake, let's say you and I are married. I have private conversations with my mum, my cousin, my friends, via text and email. What gives you the right to read those things? Do you really need to know about my BF's fight with her husband, or his drinking problem? My other friends menstrual problems? My mother's health issues? You really think you are entitled to shove your way in and partake of that information just because you are married to me? Really? And you don't see that has being hugely off putting and setting yourself up as being weak and insecure? So basically you are saying that anyone who is married to you has no autonomy, no privacy and that they should forewarn anyone who wants to confide in them that you will avail yourself of their confidences because it makes YOU feel better?



> Yes, this is the one of the problem that comes up when I think about it. Is it about not trying to be vulnerable and being control or is it about checking your surroundings and trying to see a full picture once in a while?
> 
> I feel it's the latter as snooping in itself really gives you no control over the actions whatsoever. So you found your spouse in a "friendship" and "oh they were just jokes." Not very much control if your concerns can get tossed aside. So it's the relationship's strength that counts first


There is nothing wrong with checking the pulse of the relationship once in awhile. That is a good thing to do. But that requires mutual communication, not spying and snooping. That is very one sided. 

And sometimes a joke can be just a joke


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Just to be clear, by snooping, I don't mean going round stealing and selling information.


Out of curiosity, what specifically do you have in mind? I think the word means different things to different people.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> Out of curiosity, what specifically do you have in mind? I think the word means different things to different people.


An excessive amount of texting to an unknown number.Any opposite-sex text exchange that could be thought of as "flirtatious". Gender and text mismatches. Seeing if your spouse has Voice2text or things lie tigertxt(the one with the automatic deleting) apps. Financial irregularities. yada yada yada. I'm generally not interested in women talking about their menstrual cycle problems. That's really missing the point if it's implied that I might use such information for ill gain. But anyway, good point by Ladyofthelake I guess, it is something I need to add to my set of rules before snooping. "If the info is of no consequence to me, such as other people's health problems, I'll put it past and never think or talk about it."

The "light snooping" approach means different things to different people because, well, people are different and what they are comfortable with are different. Hell, I don't even have a solid understanding of what feels okay and what feels stalkerish.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> An excessive amount of texting to an unknown number.Any opposite-sex text exchange that could be thought of as "flirtatious". Gender and text mismatches. Seeing if your spouse has Voice2text or things lie tigertxt(the one with the automatic deleting) apps. Financial irregularities. I'm generally not interested in women talking about their menstrual cycle problems. That's really missing the point if it's implied that I might use such information for ill gain. But anyway, good point by Ladyofthelake I guess, it is something I need to add to my set of rules before snooping. "If the info is of no consequence to me, such as other people's health problems, I'll put it past and never think or talk about it."
> 
> The "light snooping" approach means different things to different people because, well, people are different and what they are comfortable with are different. Hell, I don't even have a solid understanding of what feels okay and what feels stalkerish.


I was more curious as to the _source_ of the information than the _nature_ of the information.

"Snooping" has a connotation of that which you are not entitled to. In marriage, there's lots and lots of information sources you are certainly entitled to. Phone and financial records are good examples.

Somewhere though, there's a boundary and people differ on exactly where that is. As an extreme example, there's a gazillion military contractors here where I live. If your spouse was an employee of Boeing, would you be tempted to "Snoop" in a company laptop or cellphone that's brought home in the evenings?


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> I was more curious as to the _source_ of the information than the _nature_ of the information.
> 
> Sorry, misunderstanding I guess.
> 
> ...


Very tough question. Hmmm, I guess depends on whether the snooping techniques necessary would be hardcore or not. If I need to install something that will be detected and shoved up my ass, then I don't need it, thank you very much. And if the spouse can get into trouble because of it, that's offlimits too. And is the computer and phone monitored by the company( dunno if it's possible), can the spouse use it for non-work related stuff? If they can't, then there's absolutely no need for snooping.

So I guess, a very good understanding of cost vs effect has to be in place while doing any act of snooping.
-What mental risks do I face by checking up on somebody in this way? 
-How much risk is there of me getting caught? 
vs.
-What do I gain from such behaviour?


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