# need expert advice, please



## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Would appreciate any advice on this situation.

Married to my wife for 10 years, have a 5-yr old son. I thought our relationship was good... we had occasional fights, but no problem on the sex life front. I was working a lot, and not an attentive husband. I didn't make time for dates and talking. I take responsibility for that.

3 months ago she gets distant, tells me she's not happy. She turns ice cold torwards me. She starts staying over at her friends house most nights a week. I'm basically left at home taking care of our son by myself, not sleeping or eating due to stress of the situation. I start working on all the things she complained about: listening, spending time, etc. Finally, one month ago I figure out she's been texting, talking to, and seeing another guy. Sounds like it was an emotional affair, with several kisses. She said they'd told each other "i love you". 

When confronted, she agrees to stop the contact with this guy. In the last month, I believe she's been very good about that. She says she would like nothing more to be in love with me again, but she has no feelings for me. So she fell out of love with me, then started a new relationship with this other guy. She says she realizes this her feelings for this other guy are not reality-based. But now she's just depressed She feels shame over getting caught cheating and the fact that a lot of her friends know about it. She's still ice cold to me, she's depressed, has withdrawn from a lot of her friends. She used to be the greatest mother in the world to my son, but she's a fraction of that now. It's like she just doesn't care about anything.

She's still in the house, and I've been the perfect husband for the last few months. I realize I've been too nice and trying too hard with her, which just makes me look weak. So I'm starting to just do the 180-ish type stuff and work on my own life. I would do anything to keep the marriage together for the sake of my son alone. I still love my wife, but there's not much left to love - she's a depressed, selfish person now instead of the loving, caring person I fell in love with. When I talk to her, all she brings up is something neglectful I did 3 or 4 years ago, rather than the nice thing I just did. 

She's a stay at home mom, so she doesn't work, and spends her days going to the gym and shopping. She realizes and appreciates the lifestyle I provide for her, and that she'll have to give it up if we divorce. I think that is part of the reason she's still in the house.

Advice? What are my odds here? Is this thing dead and I'm wasting my time? 

And what is my best move at this point? Wait for her to come to some conclusion? Do I file for divorce? Do I not file, but let her move out?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Honestly, man...she goes to the gym and shopping.

And when the chips are down she spends the night with her "friend" while she's having an affair with someone cuz she doesn't love you anymore.

Ummm...best move at this point is to take away her financial support and force her to get a job and understand that reality f'ng sucks sometimes. File the paperwork for divorce and ask her to leave. Hell...she's already left before.

Sorry you're going through this, man...and I hate to come off crass, but I just cannot STAND this idea of a woman living large off her husband and f'ng around on him all at the same time.

Cake. Eater. Supreme.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

You can't cut off her money and throw her out, that's caled abandonment. If she's talking about moving out then you have to go see an attorney.
But have you tried MC. You say she's depressed, is she getting treatment? Do you want to work on R? Then she needs to agree to complete transparency. MC could help if that's what you want. Don't do this alone.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

She's been to IC. I don't believe it helped much. I think she just talked about all the reasons she fell out of love with me in the first place, so it just made her angrier. 

I've suggested MC, but she doesn't seem open to it.

She's been transparent - I can see her phone and emails.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

My advice is the affair might still be going on. at a minimum she's still keeping the OM alive in her head.


Look for other ways she is contacting him.

Find the OM, find out all about him. Is he married? How did they meet? how did they contact each other.

Are you sure she went to the friends?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

WreckDown said:


> She's been transparent - I can see her phone and emails.


That you know of. Burner phones and secret emails are very common for cheaters.

Your wife's behavior is a little extreme for just a short EA.

Have the two of your read Not Just Friends?

Have you yourself read Married Man's Sex Life Primer


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She has a second phone and a different email. or she does not use this stuff to keep contact...


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks. I believe her 100% when she says she was at her girlfriend's house. That OM did visit there occasionally while she was there, and that was where they talked and kissed. He's a 40yr divorced father of a 9yr old. He was a friend of my wife's girlfriend. I've never met him. I'm definitely keeping a close eye on things, though.

I do believe she still thinks about him though as you suggest.

I think a lot of her depression now is due to the ending of the emotional affair.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

I have not read those, I'll look into those. She still sees her girlfriend a lot. If she really wanted to contact him, she could use her girlfriend's phone. 



Shaggy said:


> That you know of. Burner phones and secret emails are very common for cheaters.
> 
> Your wife's behavior is a little extreme for just a short EA.
> 
> ...


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

She has little to no real fear of losing you.

She should, otherwise she'll never snap out of it.

You sound a lot like me, trying to nice my WW out of an EA. It doesn't work. 

Assume that she does not love you anymore for real and act on that. You do not want to be emotionally attached to someone who does not love (respect) you, so prepare for that and act accordingly. If she is just all fogged up she may turn around, but only under the real threat of loss. This means work on yourself and detach. You need to.

Oh, and, it's a PA.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks. Yes, I'm done being a doormat. 

You're right - it was a PA. And if I hadn't caught it, I have no doubts it would've gone much further.

Is working on myself sufficient to detach? Or do I file? Or ask her to move out?

I have a feeling if she moves out, she'll go running to the OM. 



Disenchanted said:


> She has little to no real fear of losing you.
> 
> She should, otherwise she'll never snap out of it.
> 
> ...


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

The reason these forums provide useful advice for those willing to listen to it is because it comes from third party observers, many with experience who are not in the midst of the crisis so they can see things more clearly then the person posting their story. 

It's obvious from what you have written that you are in the fog of the betrayed spouse (BS). If you do nothing else, try to lose those "protective but counterproductive" walls of denial that are shielding you from pain but also from the obvious truths. 



WreckDown said:


> She starts staying over at her friends house most nights a week.


You'd like to believe she was at her friends house most nights of the week, but -and please correct me if I'm mistaken- you really have no way of knowing that's where she was, do you? You are basing her being at her friends house on two things 1- her telling you she was there and 2- you wanting to believe she was there and not at the other man's (OM) house. 



WreckDown said:


> Finally, one month ago I figure out she's been texting, talking to, and seeing another guy. Sounds like it was an emotional affair, with several kisses. She said they'd told each other "i love you".


It's not an emotional affair, it's a physical affair. She's kissing him and most likely screwing him as well. Generally speaking, it's most likely an EA if they're not in physical contact with one another, usually because it's a long distance affair. In this case they have been together, in the same place, alone in the same house, multiple times and they have at the very least, kissed. Cmon man, be honest with yourself, do you think it just stopped at a kiss? 



WreckDown said:


> When confronted, she agrees to stop the contact with this guy.


She kept the truth from you until confronted. She has lied to you. She cannot be trusted at her word. That means when she tells you things, you cannot believe them. 



WreckDown said:


> She's a stay at home mom, so she doesn't work, and spends her days going to the gym and shopping.


Again, she tells you she spends her days at the gym and shopping. Have you done anything to verify this or are you just taking her at her word. We know what her word is worth. If nothing else besides being honest with yourself, start tracking her whereabouts.



WreckDown said:


> I've suggested MC, but she doesn't seem open to it.


What does this even mean? She doesn't "seem" open to it. Do you talk to each other? Do you say "we must go to MC to fix this" or do you just weakly say "I wonder how you would possibly feel about going to MC" and you sort of judge the response on her face as noncommital and seemingly disinterested? Cmon man step up to the plate and demand she go with you to MC to fix things or else you're outta here!



WreckDown said:


> She's been transparent - I can see her phone and emails.


People often have two phones and emails are a dime a dozen. Don't fool yourself, you aren't seeing the whole picture here. 



WreckDown said:


> Thanks. I believe her 100% when she says she was at her girlfriend's house.


You believe her because you want to believe her. She is a proven liar, and she has every reason to continue to lie. She's depressed because she misses her affair partner, the urge to see him again will be high, odds are she will give in to that urge. You blindly believing her despite overwhelming odds to the contrary.. think of an ostrich with it's head in the sand. 



WreckDown said:


> That OM did visit there occasionally while she was there, and that was where they talked and kissed.


Ok, so maybe she IS at her girlfriends house. So what, she's using it as a place to mess around with the other guy. Again, pull your head out of the sand, and as painful as it may be, picture her and the other guy who she is in love with, alone in the house, sitting there and talking and kissing. Do you REALLY think it stopped there?



WreckDown said:


> I think a lot of her depression now is due to the ending of the emotional affair.


You got that right. She'll do anything to feel better, other than coming to you of course.

Sorry to be so blunt and direct but you are setting yourself up for a fall.

*EDITED TO ADD*

I see you posted as I was writing my post and you are in fact realizing the truth of the situation and you're looking for the next step.

Yes if she moves out she'll run to the OM. But the truth is she's already with him. 

If she's refusing MC then I suggest you do ask her to leave, that will give you leverage in the inevitable divorce. There are many on this site who will give you all sorts of advice to try to expose the affair, and snap her out of the "affair fog" so she'll come back to you, I'm not a big fan of all that but if you choose that route, good luck.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Thanks. Yes, I'm done being a doormat.
> 
> You're right - it was a PA. And if I hadn't caught it, I have no doubts it would've gone much further.
> 
> ...


Filing and asking her to move out may be part of working on yourself. 

If you think she'll run to OM you should buy her ticket. Sorry, I know that sucks, but you don't deserve to live under that threat.



> Marriage is not a love affair. A love affair is a totally different thing. A marriage is a commitment to that which you are. That person is literally your other half. And you and the other are one. A love affair isn’t that. That is a relationship of pleasure, and when it gets to be unpleasurable , it’s off. But a marriage is a life commitment, and a life commitment means the prime concern of your life. If marriage is not the prime concern, you are not married.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

PS, PA means she slept with him


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Wreckdown, this isn't going to be easy, but you have to toughen up. Only severe consequences will work to save your marriage, which, since it went physical, maybe you don't want to save it.

Anyway, filing for divorce looks like the only option. It's too bad the predator is divorced. It would work better if he were married. If she runs to him, well, that's a chance you'll have to take. He might not want her and only looks at her as someone to have fun with. She has a lot to lose and divorce might wake her up. And actually file, don't just say you're going to do it. You can always stop the divorce sometime later.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

And your mindset should be, "I won't be married to a woman who brings a third person into my marriage. There are many good women out there who would love me and never cheat on me."

She needs to know that you're ready to move on and have no fear to do it!

Edit: Also buy some cool clothes and maybe get a new haircut. Something different. Start a weightlifting routine. Work on yourself, make her wonder what you're up to. If it doesn't work out with her, you'll be well-prepared for someone else.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Let's back up brother...

First, your attitude is pretty good. Your in the quicksand. The harder your trying, the faster your marriage is sinking. Recognizing that you appear pathetic and needy and that's actually hurting your chances of reconcilitation is a great first step. It's also great that your aware of what the 180* is and your trying to follow it. Keep that up. That's going to be the baseline for everything.

Before we go into details... I have to ask you two questions, try to give an honest answers...

1. Your wife's affair is physical, they have had sex. There is little to no doubt that this happened. Everything is _much worse_ than you think as far as the intensity of her affair, the duration and the deceit. Is that a deal breaker? 

2. In order to save this marriage, you MUST be willing to walk away from it. This is not something you get inspired to do and follow through with for a day, a week or a month. This is a long path your about to start walking, it will take amazing strentgh and resolve. Can you draw lines in the sand and are you prepared to walk away from this?

Dig deep and be honest with yourself, can you overcome this?


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Good question. I don't think if they had sex it would change my position at this point. Assuming it's over. 

I have my reasons for believing they didn't, and maybe I'm wrong, but that's not a deal breaker for me.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Let's back up brother...
> 
> First, your attitude is pretty good. Your in the quicksand. The harder your trying, the faster your marriage is sinking. Recognizing that you appear pathetic and needy and that's actually hurting your chances of reconcilitation is a great first step. It's also great that your aware of what the 180* is and your trying to follow it. Keep that up. That's going to be the baseline for everything.
> 
> ...


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> I have my reasons for believing they didn't [have sex]


What are the reasons?

We're here to help.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Nobody moves out of family home for some kissing and hand-holding. She minimizes.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

The EA started on 10/23 and I found out about it on 11/19. So there's maybe 4 weeks there. During that time there was 622 mintues of phone conversation and thousands of text messages.

It know it would've taken several weeks for her to fall in love with this guy.

I know her whereabouts almost all of that time. 

I know when she said she was staying at her girlfriend's house, thatwhile she was there she never texted her girlfriend (which would be an easy mistake to make if she actually went to the OM's house). She did however text the OM while she was at the girlfriend's. It's obvious on one or two nights that the texts to the OM stop, and that he came over to the girlfriend's house. 

She says there was always a group of people there hanging out (the girlfriend has a roomate as well). When they kissed, they went outside the girlfriend's apartment. SO it wasn't something even the people they were hanging out with knew was going on.

Most of you (and a part of me) will probably still shake your heads. But at the end of the day, I believe if the worst did happen it wasn't very long thing, and it doesn't change where I'm at.



sharkeey said:


> What are the reasons?
> 
> We're here to help.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

To clear things up you could have her take a polygraph test atleast offer it and see how she reacts jmo.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

I could. But like I say, I don't think the answer affects my commitment to reconciling. 

So I'm looking for the right course of action at this point whether it was a EA or PA.



tom67 said:


> To clear things up you could have her take a polygraph test atleast offer it and see how she reacts jmo.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

I don't know, Wreckdown....when adults kiss, they normally don't just stop there, with a kiss. Don't ever try to piece together a timeline and justify that they couldn't have gone physical because there wasn't time to do it. They can always find time. Some do it in a parking lot after work. If they want to bad enough, they'll find the time. Just because you don't want it to be true, doesn't mean it's not true.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

*Originally Posted by marduk * 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

For the R to work, she has to want it more than you do.

She has to face the consequences. Normally that would be exposure of the affair, and clear signal from your side that you would rather be alone than stay with a cheater. Filing for divorce is a great way to suggest that: you don't have to finalize the divorce, but it will show that you mean what you say. Worked for me.

You would need full disclosure on her side, and full transparency on her communications. You should fully expect her to lie, minimize and take affair underground: sadly most cheaters do that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tell her if she doesn't get help for the depression and go to MC that you are going to file and seek custody. Something has to shake her up.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Beautiful list, thanks.


chapparal said:


> *Originally Posted by marduk *
> I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.
> 
> A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.
> ...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW, you can expose to his parents/family and most of all put him on cheaterville.com and send him a link. You make it as uncomfortable for him as possible. He was wanting one thing from her.

Does he have custody of his kid? Contact his ex anyway and get her story. He may have other girlfriends your wife doesn't know about.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

3 months ago she gets distant, tells me she's not happy. She turns ice cold torwards me. She starts staying over at her friends house most nights a week.


This was the start of the affair.

Her friend is a toxic friend that supported and enabled WW affair.

Your WW has to go NC/no contact for life with this toxic friend as well as the OM.


Sounds like it was an emotional affair, with several kisses. She said they'd told each other "i love you". 


This was not an EA. All those nights or clamied to be at friends house WW and OM were doing it every way they could. You think the OM sat there for all those months without your WW not putting out is pure denial.


When confronted, she agrees to stop the contact with this guy. In the last month, I believe she's been very good about that.


Believing is not the same as verifying. How are you verifying NC?


She says she would like nothing more to be in love with me again, but she has no feelings for me. So she fell out of love with me, then started a new relationship with this other guy. She says she realizes this her feelings for this other guy are not reality-based. But now she's just depressed She feels shame over getting caught cheating and the fact that a lot of her friends know about it. She's still ice cold to me, she's depressed, has withdrawn from a lot of her friends. 


Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley to recovery the marriage.


Advice? What are my odds here? Is this thing dead and I'm wasting my time? And what is my best move at this point? 


Yes get that book. Then schedule a polygraph test for your WW to get the whole truth.
Tell her the date as the date gets near the WW then trickle truths some info claiming now you know all so lets cancel the test. Don't cancel tell WW it is still on to confirm what you have said.

You need to expose this affair. That means you have to tell WW parents and siblings, OMW. I gave you things to do and questions to answer. Again order that book today.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Well, I know the date they met. They were out at a bar with the mutual girlfriend. My wife was definitely withdrawn weeks before that.

I'm verifying through phone and message records, email, and credit card usage.

Thanks for the book recommendation.



theroad said:


> 3 months ago she gets distant, tells me she's not happy. She turns ice cold torwards me. She starts staying over at her friends house most nights a week.
> 
> 
> This was the start of the affair.
> ...


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

What is a deal breaker for you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

There was a guy here on TAM who found his wife about to give her OM a blowjob outside a friends house. Both the he and his W were at the friend's house for party(lots of people in the house) His W and the OM suddenly disappeared and were about to do stuff where they thought was a safe place.

But like you said, a PA does not change anything for you.(Except STDs). Just don't let it become a precedent for her future transgressions. (He will take me back even if I have sex with other people)


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Wreck...I know you're getting hit from 20 different sides and this sh-t is quite difficult to digest. I just want you to think about one thing. It's gonna be tough cuz you WANT to believe your wife...much like I wanted to believe mine.

A 40 year old divorced guy kissed your wife. They said "I love you".

But all they ever did was kiss. Does that even come close to passing the common sense test?


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Continuing the affair, definitely.


keko said:


> What is a deal breaker for you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Sure. But whether they did or didn't, I'm not sure that helps me figure out what to do at this point.



SomedayDig said:


> Wreck...I know you're getting hit from 20 different sides and this sh-t is quite difficult to digest. I just want you to think about one thing. It's gonna be tough cuz you WANT to believe your wife...much like I wanted to believe mine.
> 
> A 40 year old divorced guy kissed your wife. They said "I love you".
> 
> But all they ever did was kiss. Does that even come close to passing the common sense test?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

What it does is make sure you're not blind. If she told you all they ever did was kiss, you have to understand that in the Cheater's Bible that means they did more.

If a continued affair is your deal breaker, then you might be in luck. You might be able to get her out of her fog. But you gotta do it now and you gotta do it with strength.

Stand firm. Look up the 180 and start. That's what I think you might do at this point.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Continuing the affair, definitely.


So affair in itself isn't a deal breaker as long as she stops when you ask her.

When she realizes this she'll just have short flings or ONS'.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

WreckDown said:


> I'm verifying through phone and message records, email, and credit card usage.


Install a keylogger, this might catch any secret accounts she set up.

Plant a voice-activated recorder, e.g. in her car. If she has a burner phone it can pick it up.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Maybe a more specific question for you guys: When your wife tells you she's fallen out of love with you, are there _any _ successful R's from this situation?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Maybe a more specific question for you guys: When your wife tells you she's fallen out of love with you, are there _any _ successful R's from this situation?


Why would you want to R with someone that doesn't love you? Do you respect her more then yourself?


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Good point. I have a lot of respect for who she was 3 months ago. Not so much today. But I know how she can be.

And I love my kid more than life itself. And he loves her. And I know divorce won't be great for him, and I can't stand the ideal of seeing my kid 50% of the time. 

So I want to convince myself I've exhausted all options before throwing in the towel.



keko said:


> Why would you want to R with someone that doesn't love you? Do you respect her more then yourself?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Maybe a more specific question for you guys: When your wife tells you she's fallen out of love with you, are there _any _ successful R's from this situation?


You're going to get many answers to this question.

For some it is possible to R regardless of what happened between the two people (EA, PA or both)

Some folks can never recover from the betrayl and can never stop investigating what their former wandering spouse is up to and some of the wandering spouses cannot live life with someone constantly looking over their shoulders

Quite a few R only to walk away years later when they realize that things really can't take away the pain that exists

Either way you decide to go, I wish you well


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Maybe a more specific question for you guys: When your wife tells you she's fallen out of love with you, are there _any _ successful R's from this situation?


Have you let yourself go as far as appearance the last few years? Whose sex rank is higher? Yours or hers? In other words is she better looking than you? Are you the kind of guy, who if you were single, could attract women?

Edit: my questions have to do with her lost attraction to you and if she can become attracted to you again.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

WreckDown said:


> Good question. I don't think if they had sex it would change my position at this point. Assuming it's over.


Let's also assume it's not. They are likely still in contact, although it's probably not everyday. I'd like some more details so we could understand the dynamics a little better...

Commonly, he or she will have some half hearted sappy 'breakup' which is filled with nonsense about... conscience, family first, doing the right thing, if its meant to be... blah, blah, blah... one or both of them will go into 'withdrawl' and there will be the 'how are you doing' or 'just wanted to make sure you were alright' e-mails, texts or calls... This actually intensifies the 'addictive behaviors' and forces even more rediculous rainbow & unicorn thoughts... The acute withdrawl signs also intensify. ie; Preoccupied, short, angry, depressed, dispondant, you may also see huge mood swings including sudden euphoria which BTW means they were just in contact.



WreckDown said:


> Maybe a more specific question for you guys: When your wife tells you she's fallen out of love with you, are there _any _ successful R's from this situation?


Yes, of course. EVERY person who deals with infidelity, particularly when it involves an emotional bond between AP's has heard those words.

you didn't answer my second question in my first post... Are you prepared to walk away?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Good point. I have a lot of respect for who she was 3 months ago. Not so much today. But I know how she can be.
> 
> And I love my kid more than life itself. And he loves her. And I know divorce won't be great for him, and I can't stand the ideal of seeing my kid 50% of the time.
> 
> So I want to convince myself I've exhausted all options before throwing in the towel.


Asking for an R from a cheater is not exhausting an option, its setting yourself up for more affair's down the road.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Well, she's definitely hotter. She's been doing fitness competitions, so she looks good for a 39 yr old.

I'm attractive, in good shape. I don't relish the idea of finding other women, but I can. I've gotten my confidence back to the point where I realize I have a lot of offer and there are women that would want to be with me.




Cubby said:


> Have you let yourself go as far as appearance the last few years? Whose sex rank is higher? Yours or hers? In other words is she better looking than you? Are you the kind of guy, who if you were single, could attract women?


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

keko said:


> Asking for an R from a cheater is not exhausting an option, its setting yourself up for more affair's down the road.


Yes. She needs to think he's gone and won't come back again until SHE exhausts all options.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Well, she's definitely hotter. She's been doing fitness competitions, so she looks good for a 39 yr old.
> 
> I'm attractive, in good shape. I don't relish the idea of finding other women, but I can. I've gotten my confidence back to the point where I realize I have a lot of offer and there are women that would want to be with me.


The book (and blog) Married Man Sex Life by Athol Kay is talked about and recommended here a lot. He talks about "sex rank" a lot and its importance to a marriage. When most people marry they're usually about the same in terms of sex rank or attractiveness. 5s usually marry 5s. 8s marry 8s, etc. (I know, there are exceptions....) 

Over time, wives tend to lose attraction to their husbands. If she becomes more attractive, gets more attention, then that tendency becomes magnified and it puts pressure on the marriage. It might be subconscious, but the wife who has become hotter becomes more susceptible to straying. She didn't set out to do it, it's more a function of biological wiring.

She's also more attracted to you if you're the type who other women are attracted to. That's why it's important to be fit, wear cool clothes, have interests, etc. Whatever road you're on now, it's time to change it. Work out, get the clothes, start doing stuff. Make her head spin. What's going on now isn't working.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Maybe a more specific question for you guys: When your wife tells you she's fallen out of love with you, are there _any _ successful R's from this situation?


Sure there are. And millions of people play the lottery and some of them win too.

Just don't bank on it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I just posted this on another thread, print it and let your wife see how men scam married women. I am NOT the writer

*Findingmyway was a player, I don't know if he comes on here much now, but he did leave a point of view thread although I can't find it. He posted something similar to me, here it is.:
***********************************************

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex. *


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Well, thanks for all the advice. I told her she needs to find a job right away, in anticipation for filing for divorce. She didn't bat an eye.

Once she moves out, I have half a mind to send an exposure email to the OM and my wife, and BCC their families and friends, to tell eveyone what they did. Partly out of spite, but mostly because until now when my wife talks about me i'm the "bad guy", and i'd like eveyone to know what a doucheknuckle this OM is and to some degree what a liar/cheater my wife is. And I'd like to make OM and my W shamed to be together. I don't care if she's happy, but not with that ahole.

Good idea to? Something I'll regret?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Good idea. She didn't bat an eye.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

First gather evidence, find out the truth, trick her if necessary. She didn't become cold all the sudden before she had OM lined up, whether this particular OM on another one.
Start the 180 yesterday. Talk to a lawyer yestarday.
If you find out they are still at it then you make your exposure depending on your intentions (It might be wise to limit your losses fiancially nad custody wise).

Sorry man.

ETA
GF was in the know (full blown EA-PA) since the very beggining, she'd have to go in case R is in the table.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Yeah, I was wanting to have the custody and property decisions made before doing this. It's going to piss her off royally, which wouldn't help with an amicable divorce.


Acabado said:


> First gather evidence, find out the truth, trick her if necessary. She didn't become cold all the sudden before she had OM lined up, whether this particular OM on another one.
> Start the 180 yesterday. Talk to a lawyer yestarday.
> If you find out they are still at it then you make your exposure depending on your intentions (It might be wise to limit your losses fiancially nad custody wise).
> 
> Sorry man.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Bad idea. You need to expose and have her served all at once to have the strongest effect on your wife. Slowly preparing your wife ain't going to cut it. 

My suggestion, send out the email and expose them to everyone. Then print out divorce forms of your state and start filling them out in front of your wife. Wait for her to get on her knees and begging you to give her another chance. Then decide whatever you want for your future, either R or D.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Well, it sounds like if the exposure was intended to get her back, I'd do what you sugggest.

I don't have any confidence it will make her want to be with me. My only purpose in doing it would be to poison any relationship with the OM.

And I don't want to piss her off before the divorce property / custody discussion. 



keko said:


> Bad idea. You need to expose and have her served all at once to have the strongest effect on your wife. Slowly preparing your wife ain't going to cut it.
> 
> My suggestion, send out the email and expose them to everyone. Then print out divorce forms of your state and start filling them out in front of your wife. Wait for her getting on her knees and begging you to give her another chance. Then decide whatever you want for your future, either R or D.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Piss her off? Who the f cares if she's pissed off?

You should be the one that's pissed off but apparently you're still afraid of her.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Not afraid. I'd just like to have her in a good place when splitting property. If she's feeling guilty, I have more leverage than if she's feeling pissed.



keko said:


> Piss her off? Who the f cares if she's pissed off?
> 
> You should be the one that's pissed off but apparently you're still afraid of her.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Bad idea. You need to expose and have her served all at once to have the strongest effect on your wife. Slowly preparing your wife ain't going to cut it.
> 
> My suggestion, send out the email and expose them to everyone. Then print out divorce forms of your state and start filling them out in front of your wife. Wait for her to get on her knees and begging you to give her another chance. Then decide whatever you want for your future, either R or D.


Expose to everyone now. The divorce won't be amicable anyway just let them know exactly why the marriage is ending very matter of fact.Property is a 50/50 split in most cases anyway.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Not afraid. I'd just like to have her in a good place when splitting property. If she's feeling guilty, I have more leverage than if she's feeling pissed.


Hate to burst your bubble but having read thousands of infidelity stories her and on other sites, I have never encountered a cheating spouse that felt guilty and gave a fair settlement to her/his betrayed spouse.

I wish you good luck.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Maybe a more specific question for you guys: When your wife tells you she's fallen out of love with you, are there _any _ successful R's from this situation?


I recommend that you Google "Morituri Let Them Go". You will find that post to be very insightful.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

good stuff. thanks.


river rat said:


> I recommend that you Google "Morituri Let Them Go". You will find that post to be very insightful.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> 3 months ago she gets distant, tells me she's not happy. She turns ice cold torwards me.


This is textbook standard adulterous female behavior. That change occurs when she has attached to OM. Usually, but there are rare exceptions, this means she has already copulated with OM or decided to do so at first opportunity. YMMV, but not by much.



WreckDown said:


> She starts staying over at her friends house most nights a week.


Friend was enabling sex sessions with OM, either by covering for your WW or else allowing it right on her premises.



WreckDown said:


> I'm basically left at home taking care of our son by myself, not sleeping or eating due to stress of the situation. I start working on all the things she complained about: listening, spending time, etc.


Just out of curiosity, did she voice any of these complaints prior to going cold on you? 



WreckDown said:


> Finally, one month ago I figure out she's been texting, talking to, and seeing another guy. Sounds like it was an emotional affair, with several kisses. She said they'd told each other "i love you".


Kissing? Try everything, including stuff she doesn't do with you. That's why she was staying over night at toxic friend's place. 



WreckDown said:


> When confronted, she agrees to stop the contact with this guy. In the last month, I believe she's been very good about that. She says she would like nothing more to be in love with me again, but she has no feelings for me. So she fell out of love with me, then started a new relationship with this other guy.


Ummm, no. Again, this is the standard textbook indicator of adultery. Once she had sex, unprotected of course, with OM, she "fluid bonded." Semen contains mood elevating chemicals, much like anti-depressants which are absorbed into the bloodstream vaginally and sublingually. A new guy's brand is going to affect her a little differently than you. New is better. Also, when a woman climaxes with a new guy, the brain releases a huge dose of brain sex drugs, PEA, dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, that give her a crack-high, which must be fed again and again. A WW basically becomes a crack addict for sex with OM(s). This is also why they will do way kinkier stuff with OM than BH.

After all that wild sex, WW has to justify her adulterous behavior to herself, since she, like all women, hates cheaters. This is the job of her "rationalization hamster" which spins up statements like "I'm out of love with you," or the classic ILYBINILWY.



WreckDown said:


> She says she realizes this her feelings for this other guy are not reality-based. But now she's just depressed She feels shame over getting caught cheating and the fact that a lot of her friends know about it. She's still ice cold to me, she's depressed, has withdrawn from a lot of her friends. She used to be the greatest mother in the world to my son, but she's a fraction of that now. It's like she just doesn't care about anything.


She's going through withdrawal. It's like a guy who looks at too much porn and can't get excited over ordinary sex. Her body agenda is working against you.



WreckDown said:


> She's still in the house, and I've been the perfect husband for the last few months. I realize I've been too nice and trying too hard with her, which just makes me look weak. So I'm starting to just do the 180-ish type stuff and work on my own life.


Excellent insight on your part. Trying to be the "perfect husband" will actually lower her esteem for you. Women are actually attracted to men who won't take any BS of off them and you've been eating her sh!t sandwich and asking for more. That turns her off to you and on to OM(s) like never before. 




WreckDown said:


> I would do anything to keep the marriage together for the sake of my son alone.


This is commendable. It's a good reason to stay together, but only if your wife comes back into the marriage for real. There are exceptions, though.



WreckDown said:


> I still love my wife, but there's not much left to love - she's a depressed, selfish person now instead of the loving, caring person I fell in love with.


This is what comes from copulation with strange men. Now, as for your part, you've been beta-ized. Your wife no longer sees you as a worthy sex partner. You're an imposter. If you were really the man she thought you were, you wouldn't have tolerated this as long as you did. Well, you didn't know she was screwing another man and you still won't see it. You're hiding behind the EA fig leaf when you already know better. She thinks if you were really her soul-mate you would have sensed the presence of an interloping man from the first day. The fact that you didn't proves that you really aren't the guy for her. It's the rationalization hamster wheel, once again.



WreckDown said:


> When I talk to her, all she brings up is something neglectful I did 3 or 4 years ago, rather than the nice thing I just did.


Once again, this is the standard adulterous wife response played back straight off the cheating script that women are programmed with from birth. She has to justify her adultery and she can't. No way. So she does what she can. It's the hamster.



WreckDown said:


> She's a stay at home mom, so she doesn't work, and spends her days going to the gym and shopping.


How'd she meat the OM(s)? Do you know who he is? How hot is your wife on an objective scale of 1-10? How old is she now? How old is your son?



WreckDown said:


> She realizes and appreciates the lifestyle I provide for her, and that she'll have to give it up if we divorce. I think that is part of the reason she's still in the house.


No fooling.



WreckDown said:


> Advice? What are my odds here? Is this thing dead and I'm wasting my time?


First advice is to face the facts: she is sexually repelled by you. You need to make sure she's still not doing the other guy. Then you've got to make sure she doesn't go back for another fix or get a new "supplier." Go into monitor mode with GPS, VAR in car, keylogger, etc.

Your odds aren't that great of actually getting her to be sexually attracted to you again. However, if she sees other women behaving in a way that indicates attraction to you, she can regain attraction. You need to up your sex rank by getting rid of the gut, which means a 32 or better waist measured under the rib cage. Chest needs to be at least a 1.4:1 ratio with waist. This is the golden ration that has been "scientifically" demonstrated to trigger limbic (non-rational) sexual attraction in the vast majority of women. Up your appearance by dressing much sharper and up to date than previously. Get a single man's ride: mustang, hot rod, ferrari, chopper, etc. Trade in a vehicle to get it if necessary. Change your hair to anything. Extremely short or long both work well. It's just important to make a drastic change. All of this will send a signal to your indecisive wayward wife that you may just have female options other than her. Women are herd animals and they are mostly attracted to the same buck.

And on that note, start going out without her and without explanation. Go to a movie, go hear live bands, whatever. Just go out, without warning, in the evening in your hot rod, dressed nice, and on your way out say, "I'm going out. Be back later. Don't wait up." Create mystery and the air of a man who can replace his adulterous wife with a soft harem of 3-4 divorced mom's in about 10 minutes if he decides to.



WreckDown said:


> And what is my best move at this point?


Stop violating The Sixteen Commandments. Find out where you are in The Male Hierarchy. Learn about how women really are, not what they and society claim they are, at those two blogs. Also go to Married Man Sex Life blog . Most importantly, download the book right now and read it tonight (don't let your wife know you're reading up on all this stuff). Up your sex rank as I outlined above.



WreckDown said:


> Wait for her to come to some conclusion? Do I file for divorce? Do I not file, but let her move out?


This advice assumes you want to keep her and bring her back into the marriage: you don't let her move out. If you think or find out she's still involved with others, file. You can always stop it, if she comes around. No need to file, though if she's actually NC. When she breaks NC, which she most assuredly will, then you can file.


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

I think the marriage can be saved. But doing what has been suggested here is the path towards that as well. You have to end the affair before any further healing is possible. She says she doesn't love you- to me that is the fog. My WW pretty much gave me that crap too. Then I used a VAR and gathered unrefutable evidence of the A. Then I confronted. I exposed OM and WW that very day to her family, my family and omw. I also called his employer. 

The exposure ended the A. That is the purpose- not revenge. Then my WW agreed to MC. At first she figured we were done. It as the fog lifted she began to work on R. We are working to keep our family together. It's not easy- but with little kids involved for me that was the choice I made. But you have to be willing to leave it all behind or they will know and R will not work. 

Get evidence
Expose
File if needed to get her out of fog
Then If possible work on R
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Next time your wife talks about falling out of love with you and throwing something in your face about how you didn't do this or do that, I'd hold up your hand and tell her to shut up.

Then, I would proceed to itemize how much she sucks as a wife and a mother: 

1) emotional neglect by going cold on you without her letting you know what her issues are.

2) frequent overnight trips to her friends house that sends a clear message to her son that his own mother does not love him.

3) cheating on you with another man while you are at home taking care of the child.

4) Failing to live up to her duties as a stay at home mom by not taking care of the house, cooking meals, and taking care of the family during the day.

5) enjoying the fruits of your labor by you working all of the extra hours to make a better life for your family but resenting you for doing this at the same time.

Yeah...If I were you a I would itemize these things in very great detail and basically eviscerate her verbally. When I was done, your wife would feel like she is 6" tall and the most worthless person on the planet not deserving of ANY love from ANYONE. I'm sorry, but people like this really piss me off. I also can't help but feel how grateful I am for what I have. I feel for you and I hope you take your balls back from this woman. I think you are well on your way to doing that, but this woman needs to be put in her place. 

She needs to know that you have fallen so far out of love with her that you wouldn't pi$$ on her if her tits were on fire... Even if that isn't what you really feel, you need to project that to her. It's for your own good and your own personal healing. JMHO.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> This is textbook standard adulterous female behavior...............


Brilliant post.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

All of you guys on this forum are fantastic from an empowerment perspective. Genuinely appreciate the support. I feel embiggened.


Plan 9 from OS said:


> Next time your wife talks about falling out of love with you and throwing something in your face about how you didn't do this or do that, I'd hold up your hand and tell her to shut up.
> 
> Then, I would proceed to itemize how much she sucks as a wife and a mother:
> 
> ...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Then, I would proceed to itemize how much she sucks as a wife and a mother:
> 
> 1) emotional neglect by going cold on you without her letting you know what her issues are.
> 
> ...



all of the above is a waste of time (no offense plan 9) I would have agreed and felt the same way before becoming a betrayed spouse master jedi. LMAO. )

Truth is that verbal onslaught would be used as fuel for her rationalizations about you being an abusive husband. Plus... it would be a matter of minutes before she shared your verbal abuse with her 'toxic network' of enablers. 

she doesn't care what you think of her. Your the villian.

besides that, her defenses are much stronger than your offenses. She's been training them for awhile now. She's built a big thick wall between you are her.

Your words mean sh*t, action is the only language she will understand. It's also the only language you should be listen too from her.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> all of the above is a waste of time (no offense plan 9) I would have agreed and felt the same way before becoming a betrayed spouse master jedi. LMAO.
> 
> Truth is the verbal onslaught will be used as fuel for her rationalizations about you being an abusive husband. Plus... it will be a matter of minutes before she shares your verbal abuse with her 'toxic network' of enablers.
> 
> ...


I'm not offended. I also agree that the OP must take action to protect himself and his child. He needs to take action to dump this woman if she won't stop the cheating and show true remorse. But I think the OP should let his wife know what he feels. Even if it does not phase her, he would still be taking back his dignity and self worth - while at the same time taking action to move on or fix things. Right now the OP is still internalizing all of this crap from his wife about how he fell short. If nothing else, verbalizing all of her short comings will free him from accepting guilt from his wife. He needs to internalize what she really is. JMHO.


----------



## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> all of the above is a waste of time (no offense plan 9) I would have agreed and felt the same way before becoming a betrayed spouse master jedi. LMAO. )
> 
> Truth is that verbal onslaught would be used as fuel for her rationalizations about you being an abusive husband. Plus... it would be a matter of minutes before she shared your verbal abuse with her 'toxic network' of enablers.
> 
> ...


Yeah, logic does no good when she's all "fogged up." She really doesn't care.


----------



## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm not offended. I also agree that the OP must take action to protect himself and his child. He needs to take action to dump this woman if she won't stop the cheating and show true remorse. But I think the OP should let his wife know what he feels. Even if it does not phase her, he would still be taking back his dignity and self worth - while at the same time taking action to move on or fix things. Right now the OP is still internalizing all of this crap from his wife about how he fell short. If nothing else, verbalizing all of her short comings will free him from accepting guilt from his wife. He needs to internalize what she really is. JMHO.


I agree that the list helps OP to realize just how much his wife crapped on him and his family, and that it's not his fault. Gives him confidence and self-respect to move forward.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Cubby said:


> Yeah, logic does no good when she's all "fogged up." She really doesn't care.


I think the words would be for him. But the actions to take would be for her. If his wife is throwing abuse at him I'd respond the way I wrote earlier in the thread. After he says his peace, then take action by going dark, unravel finances and move on.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Cubby said:


> Yeah, logic does no good when she's all "fogged up." She really doesn't care.


and don't listen to anything she says... It's crazy nonsense that will melt your brain and cripple you. That's what it's designed for.

Take this...

lol. sorry, a little levity isn't a bad thing right now.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

believe me, i've pretty much said all those things to her. last night again, even. when being nice just fails day after day after day, i start being very honest.

she actually realizes and agrees, but simply doesn't care. 



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> all of the above is a waste of time (no offense plan 9) I would have agreed and felt the same way before becoming a betrayed spouse master jedi. LMAO. )
> 
> Truth is that verbal onslaught would be used as fuel for her rationalizations about you being an abusive husband. Plus... it would be a matter of minutes before she shared your verbal abuse with her 'toxic network' of enablers.
> 
> ...


----------



## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

She will care soon enough. For the child if nothing else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

slater said:


> She will care soon enough. For the child if nothing else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just like she showed all of that "care" for him when she was staying at her friends house overnight multiple times during the week. I get what you're saying, but this so-called mother doesn't care all that much. But when she is ready to care again, everything will be over and she'll be alone. Congratulations to her for getting her freedom...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Just like she showed all of that "care" for him when she was staying at her friends house overnight multiple times during the week. I get what you're saying, but this so-called mother doesn't care all that much. But when she is ready to care again, everything will be over and she'll be alone. Congratulations to her for getting her freedom...


Dern your angry.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Well, she's definitely hotter. She's been doing fitness competitions, so she looks good for a 39 yr old.


Stop right there. When did this start up?


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Expose the OM to all of his family you can find including his ex. The best thing is to see if you can break them up from his end. Him throwing her under the bus is the quickest way to get her out of the fog. Put him on cheaterville now and send him a link. Besides, thats the most fun thing to do in this whole mess. 

Of course one poster sent the OM an online voodoo curse since the OM was in BatonRouge.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> believe me, i've pretty much said all those things to her. last night again, even. when being nice just fails day after day after day, i start being very honest.
> 
> she actually realizes and agrees, but simply doesn't care.


Quit talking relationship with her. That's way too "delta" male, or "beta" using Roissy/MMSL speak. Women are, as you should remember from junior hi, high school, and later, attracted to the guys who can't be bothered about relationships or being a nice guy. If she brings up the subject, and she will do so in a couple of days if you suddenly drop it, be friendly, open, keep it as light as possible, lightly evade committing to a course of action if she tries to pin you down. Always act totally unperturbed (or course you are perturbed) and as if you are the master of your domain with many options about your future. Don't say this, project it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

What class does she compete in?

Is her trainer the toxic friend or is she also a competitor. I sure hope not.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> What class does she compete in?
> 
> Is her trainer the toxic friend or is she also a competitor. I sure hope not.


I know where you going with this Mach... When I read the 39year old/fitness competition thing on top of everything else...

I literally put my hand on my forehead and said.. "oh no". "this is bad". "really bad".


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I know where you going with this Mach... When I read the 39year old/fitness competition thing on top of everything else...
> 
> I literally put my hand on my forehead and said.. "oh no". "*this is bad". "really bad".*


You know it. I guess my next question ought to be: what's in her stack?


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Expose the OM to all of his family you can find including his ex. The best thing is to see if you can break them up from his end. Him throwing her under the bus is the quickest way to get her out of the fog. Put him on cheaterville now and send him a link. Besides, thats the most fun thing to do in this whole mess.
> 
> Of course one poster sent the OM an online voodoo curse since the OM was in BatonRouge.


Definitely put the guy on cheaterville. Don't say anything about it to WW or OM.

Speaking of OM, is he a bodybuilder?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Well, I know the date they met. They were out at a bar with the mutual girlfriend. *My wife was definitely withdrawn weeks before that.*


Then you've got at least one other OM on the radar from when she first withdrew. Unless she's been begging you in vain for sex of the last 5 years, withdrawal comes after physical and/or emotional commitment to OM.

Sorry to be playing so far behind the curve.


----------



## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

She's been training since January. Her trainer is a mannish lesbian so nothing to worry about there. 

The OM is not related to the gym or the training at all. 

Update: I've told her she needs to get a job so she can afford an apartment. Which has basically led us to discussing divorce and her moving out. She's crying for whatever twisted reasons, but I feel really good. I feel better than I've felt in 3 months. So thanks for the support. Right now I'm looking forward to moving on.


----------



## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> She's crying for whatever twisted reasons, but I feel really good..


Oh gawd do not fall for her histrionics, DON'T FALL FOR IT.

Waterworks be damned, you are about to see the difference between Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. 

Hold strong my friend, hold strong.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> She's been training since January. Her trainer is a mannish lesbian so nothing to worry about there.


Probably not, but unlike men, women are sexually fluid. 



WreckDown said:


> The OM is not related to the gym or the training at all.
> 
> Update: I've told her she needs to get a job so she can afford an apartment. Which has basically led us to discussing divorce and her moving out. She's crying for whatever twisted reasons, but I feel really good. I feel better than I've felt in 3 months. So thanks for the support. Right now I'm looking forward to moving on.


Well, that was a quick turnaround. Since you have decided to move on, it's possible, maybe even probable, that your wife is going to suddenly fall in love with you big time. There is no attractor for a woman like a guy who just doesn't care anymore. Previously, you were trying to "win" her by being mr. perfect husband and that is a chick repellant. Now, as you move away, she draws close.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Probably not, but unlike men, women are sexually fluid.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that was a quick turnaround. Since you have decided to move on, it's possible, maybe even probable, that your wife is going to suddenly fall in love with you big time. There is no attractor for a woman like a guy who just doesn't care anymore. Previously, you were trying to "win" her by being mr. perfect husband and that is a chick repellant. Now, as you move away, she draws close.


Plus I would be crying if my cushy don't need to work life was coming to an end also


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

HAve you exposed the affair?

Did you get the book Surviving An Affair yet?

Posting here is not going to get your WW back.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> She used to be the greatest mother in the world to my son, but she's a fraction of that now. It's like she just doesn't care about anything.


This sounds like clinical depression. Get her treatment, as soon as you can.


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## committedwife (Dec 12, 2011)

WreckDown said:


> Would appreciate any advice on this situation.
> 
> Married to my wife for 10 years, have a 5-yr old son. I thought our relationship was good... we had occasional fights, but no problem on the sex life front. I was working a lot, and not an attentive husband. I didn't make time for dates and talking. I take responsibility for that.
> 
> ...


Wreck, who is OM? Is he married?


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

No, he's a divorced 40yr single father with a 9yr old.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Believe me, I've tried. She just won't see it. In her mind, I'm the problem, not depression.


MattMatt said:


> This sounds like clinical depression. Get her treatment, as soon as you can.


----------



## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

I did not get that one yet. I did pick up Not Just Friends though. 

I'm not even sure at this point that I want her back. How can you ever really trust someone that does this to you?


theroad said:


> HAve you exposed the affair?
> 
> Did you get the book Surviving An Affair yet?
> 
> Posting here is not going to get your WW back.


----------



## committedwife (Dec 12, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> This sounds like clinical depression. Get her treatment, as soon as you can.


Baloney. She's exhibiting the typical signs of a wayward spouse. The only treatment needed is to end the affair.


----------



## committedwife (Dec 12, 2011)

theroad said:


> HAve you exposed the affair?
> 
> Did you get the book Surviving An Affair yet?
> 
> Posting here is not going to get your WW back.


NOT posting here won't either, theroad. And he needs help - should he just NOT post? :nono: But yes, he needs to get Surviving an Affair asap.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> Then you've got at least one other OM on the radar from when she first withdrew.


Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking earlier today. It wouldn't be uncommon for her to have been in a situation that opened her to a second. Good possible call.



MattMatt said:


> This sounds like clinical depression. Get her treatment, as soon as you can.





committedwife said:


> Baloney. She's exhibiting the typical signs of a wayward spouse. The only treatment needed is to end the affair.


Actually what she said. Fog and the withdrawal symptoms are exactly the same as someone with serious depression. Technically she is depressed, she would have a serious chemical imbalance in her brain right now. huge.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

theroad said:


> Did you get the book Surviving An Affair yet?
> 
> Posting here is not going to get your WW back.


?!?!

I've read many of these books. Hell ive read everything i could get my hands on, so have many other great members here. Plus, we've lived it. The collective resources and wisdom available here and in an interactive medium FAR exceed the value of any of these books by themselves. In my opinion, it's not close.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Dern your angry.


In a sense, Pit. Although I can't relate from personal experience when it comes to infidelity, I do realize when there are obvious problems that - if dealt with up front - can head off a lot of these more difficult situations down the road. I don't mean to take pot shots at the OP, but who in their right mind would enable a spouse to overnight somewhere that has nothing to do with work? If it was me, if my wife ever decide to not come home and sleep at a friends house as the situation was described in this thread while I'm home watching the kids, I'd have her stuff packed and sitting out on the porch. At most, this would have happened once and I would have had the talk with her up front. It's toxic to the family because 1) the wife doesn't care but 2) the husband enables the wife to act out in such a way to begin with. It boggles my mind and frankly it drives me up a wall.

OP, sorry if this is offensive to you, but I think it takes little more than common sense to recognize when the marriage starts going into the weeds like this one did. I didn't have to read a book like MMSL or delve into Roisey's theories to know that 1) if I try to be extra nice, people will take advantage of me and 2) when I become too accommodating of other peoples needs at the expense of my own that people will not respect me. IMHO, these are the life lessons we should have learned when we were children. Why men (and women) sometimes throw everything they learned about human relationships out the window the day they get married is beyond my understanding. It's just how I feel. I apologize if this comes across as offensive.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> I did not get that one yet. I did pick up Not Just Friends though.
> 
> I'm not even sure at this point that I want her back. How can you ever really trust someone that does this to you?


You don't fight to end the affair now you won't have the chance to recover your marriage.

You need to kill the affair. Once affair is dead you can still decide to divorce. Doing nothing is letting WW and OM have all the options.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

committedwife said:


> NOT posting here won't either, theroad. And he needs help - should he just NOT post? :nono: But yes, he needs to get Surviving an Affair asap.


Not post was said to make a point. He needs to be working to kill the affair.

Example your post to me is a waste. You should be telling him how to expose and to get it done today.

Every day this BH waits is another day the odds to save his marriage get lower.

Every day this BH wastes increases the chance of the OM knocking up his WW.

This BH does not need an OC.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> ?!?!
> 
> I've read many of these books. Hell ive read everything i could get my hands on, so have many other great members here. Plus, we've lived it. The collective resources and wisdom available here and in an interactive medium FAR exceed the value of any of these books by themselves. In my opinion, it's not close.


Then you should be lighting a fire under him to make the moves that must be made.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WreckDown said:


> Well, she's definitely hotter. She's been doing fitness competitions, so she looks good for a 39 yr old.
> 
> I'm attractive, in good shape. I don't relish the idea of finding other women, but I can. I've gotten my confidence back to the point where I realize I have a lot of offer and there are women that would want to be with me.


Why wouldn't she? Staying at home...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WreckDown said:


> She's been training since January. Her trainer is a mannish lesbian so nothing to worry about there.
> 
> The OM is not related to the gym or the training at all.
> 
> Update: I've told her she needs to get a job so she can afford an apartment. Which has basically led us to discussing divorce and her moving out. She's crying for whatever twisted reasons, but I feel really good. I feel better than I've felt in 3 months. So thanks for the support. Right now I'm looking forward to moving on.


"Oh.. poor little me!!So many hardships in life!!" 

Self pity. Nothing to do with breaking up with you or leaving you..


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

WreckDown said:


> Well, thanks for all the advice. I told her she needs to find a job right away, in anticipation for filing for divorce. She didn't bat an eye.
> 
> Once she moves out, I have half a mind to send an exposure email to the OM and my wife, and BCC their families and friends, to tell eveyone what they did. Partly out of spite, but mostly because until now when my wife talks about me i'm the "bad guy", and i'd like eveyone to know what a doucheknuckle this OM is and to some degree what a liar/cheater my wife is. And I'd like to make OM and my W shamed to be together. I don't care if she's happy, but not with that ahole.
> 
> Good idea to? Something I'll regret?


Stick to the facts when sending the exposure letter. make it as emotionless as possible.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> In a sense, Pit.
> 
> It's just how I feel. I apologize if this comes across as offensive.


No brother, it doesn't come off as offensive to me. I probably should have inserted a smiley face after my comment. I was just making an observation, you sounded exceptionally angry. I understand why, when I read some of these things in people's posts I sometimes feel frustrated too. I'd just like to shake the OP's and say "CAN'T YOU SEE?!?" and that's kiddie play compared to what I'd like to say & do to the DS's & OW/M's they describe. 

But I do think in the end, there is a delicate balance. Afterall, they still love these waywards. I recall feeling almost a little defensive of my former WW when people attacked her using exceptionally angry words. Instinct I guess. 

I assume most BS's are still instinctively protective of our wayward wives & husbands to some degree. Afterall, we did promise to love and protect 'for better or worse' and took that seriously. I do think we all lose sight of that, I know I do from time to time.

Of course, that is just my opinion.



theroad said:


> Then you should be lighting a fire under him to make the moves that must be made.


:shakes head: lol.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Drop the OM onto cheaterville.com and send him a link to it anonymously. 

You want him to see your wife as costly to him to be with.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Drop the OM onto cheaterville.com and send him a link to it anonymously.
> 
> You want him to see your wife as costly to him to be with.


Almost no one will post the other man on cheaterville. The ones that do are so glad they have done it. Why do you think men are so reluctant to use this resource? Are they afraid of the OM? Is a big part of the whole problem that they feel they are being outgunned by the OM?


----------



## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Almost no one will post the other man on cheaterville. The ones that do are so glad they have done it. Why do you think men are so reluctant to use this resource? Are they afraid of the OM? Is a big part of the whole problem that they feel they are being outgunned by the OM?


For me I think it is fear of legal retaliation. I keep thinking I am going to then back down. I am also slightly worried he will put my wife on there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Is there any legal risk in sending an exposure email to him and his family?


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Is there any legal risk in sending an exposure email to him and his family?


Not if you are telling the truth and if it is the truth let him try and sue you it won't happen


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> *Is there any legal risk* in sending an exposure email to him and his family?


Only if you distort the truth. Other than that, no.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

slater said:


> For me I think it is fear of legal retaliation. I keep thinking I am going to then back down. I am also slightly worried he will put my wife on there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If its the truth you have nothing tio worrry about. What would be the advantage to him of putting her on there?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey Wreck

You have received some great advice.

Just remember you have very little to lose when you have a stay at home, cake eating, gym haunting, cheating wife. I left out good mother because there does not seem to be too much mothering that she has done lately.

You basically have a walk away wife that has not walked away yet.

So listen to the TAM crew.

Kill the Affair. Put pressure on the POSOM and your wife to stop the Affair. Expose the enabling GF or GF's. They have no interest in your marriage. They are just enablers for your wifes bad behavior.

And you know what. Let your families know what is going, that you are trying to save your marriage and family but it takes two to do that....*Not three in a marriage!*

Stop being nice.

And if your wife throws a fit. Pack her bag and tell her to go. She is of no use to you or your kid at this time.

Cut off the money.

And send her packing with a classified section of the newspaper.

She needs reality to hit her right between her eyes. Hopefully her brain is there.

Because the way she has been acting lately, I think she has been sitting on her brain.

Time to kick butt buddy.

Hm64


----------



## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks! Can't tell you how much appreciation I have for all the feedback on here. Seriously... you guys have helped me stop being a pitiful, unattractive, compassionate doormat. I should've come on here 4 weeks ago.

In the middle of reading The Married Man Sex Life Primer and it is something I should've read years ago. I f*cked up so much of that in my current marriage. 



happyman64 said:


> Hey Wreck
> 
> You have received some great advice.
> 
> ...


----------



## BeenthereDunThat (Nov 27, 2012)

Wreck, I've read this thread and will agree with much that has been offered in terms of advice. One additional point I would add is the fact that your wife is most likely suffering some form of mild depression and is likely having a difficult time dealing with the fact that she has acted in a manner that conflicts with her own values and morals. Betrayal, deception, lies, sneaking around are activities that all but the most narcissistic have a difficult time dealing with. Sure .... she can blame you and bring up events from years past but the fact still remains she made the decision to do what she did and is most likely waking up to this reality. It's as though cheaters deal with their problems (self esteem, emptiness, etc.) by shooting themselves in the foot and digging an even deeper hole for themselves. I often wonder if cheaters suffer from some personality disorder condition? I do hope you can find a way forward and wish you all the best.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Almost no one will post the other man on cheaterville. The ones that do are so glad they have done it. Why do you think men are so reluctant to use this resource? Are they afraid of the OM? Is a big part of the whole problem that they feel they are being outgunned by the OM?


I think there are a number of reasons why they won't. Just like they won't cancel the joint credit cards, telling friends and family etc.

they're afraid of someone saying they are the bad guy, so they've learned to take whatever is thrown their way and not react back. 

It's easy to find reasons to not do something that changes the status quo.


----------



## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Agreed. She's historically been a very sweet, kind, caring person. She does feel a great deal of shame and guilt at the moment. But I don't honestly believe she feels any guilt about hurting me (otherwise... she wouldn't have done what she did). I think she feels guilt over not being a good mother lately. 

And I think she primarily feels shame because most of our friends and neighbors know she was cheating, and she no doubt always viewed herself as a "good person". 

I've suggested she talk to someone about the depression, she wasn't interested. 



BeenthereDunThat said:


> Wreck, I've read this thread and will agree with much that has been offered in terms of advice. One additional point I would add is the fact that your wife is most likely suffering some form of mild depression and is likely having a difficult time dealing with the fact that she has acted in a manner that conflicts with her own values and morals. Betrayal, deception, lies, sneaking around are activities that all but the most narcissistic have a difficult time dealing with. Sure .... she can blame you and bring up events from years past but the fact still remains she made the decision to do what she did and is most likely waking up to this reality. It's as though cheaters deal with their problems (self esteem, emptiness, etc.) by shooting themselves in the foot and digging an even deeper hole for themselves. I often wonder if cheaters suffer from some personality disorder condition? I do hope you can find a way forward and wish you all the best.


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

in reference to cheaterville.com


slater said:


> For me I think it is fear of legal retaliation. I keep thinking I am going to then back down. I am also slightly worried he will put my wife on there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



A poster seeking legal advice asked about his options in getting his cheaterville post removed because he was unable to find a job. It seems employers googled his name and the link accused him of passing around STDs. Here's the internet legal advice he got. 



> from I was posted on cheaterville with claims that I gave someone an std. - Avvo.com
> 
> "The first thing you may want to consider is to ask the poster to take it down. If that doesn't work, you could file a claim for defamation and libel per se. However, with lawsuits like that, you open your entire personal life up for investigation, because the opposing side's defense is that the statement is either an opinion, or based in truth.
> 
> ...


----------



## BeenthereDunThat (Nov 27, 2012)

WreckDown said:


> Agreed. She's historically been a very sweet, kind, caring person. She does feel a great deal of shame and guilt at the moment. But I don't honestly believe she feels any guilt about hurting me (otherwise... she wouldn't have done what she did). I think she feels guilt over not being a good mother lately.
> 
> And I think she primarily feels shame because most of our friends and neighbors know she was cheating, and she no doubt always viewed herself as a "good person".
> 
> I've suggested she talk to someone about the depression, she wasn't interested.


Wreck, based on my impression of your wife both prior to her infidelity and after she made the decisions she did I wouldn't be so quick to conclude she doesn't feel guilt for the pain she has caused you. She may be trying to justify what she did and the damage she has caused through all sorts of mental gymnastics but unless she is completely irrational it's unlikely she doesn't feel guilt for what she has done to you, the OM, her child, her family, her friends.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> WreckDown
> Maybe a more specific question for you guys: When your wife tells you she's fallen out of love with you, are there any successful R's from this situation?


*YES*


*Because your wife’s emotions are twisted right now do not expect a big turn around immediately.* If and when she gets her emotions and mind back in a more balanced position she may realize that her best chance at a good family life is with you. When I say family life I definitely am including your child or children. You child or children will never have the potential attachment to any other man that your wife may replace you with.

*Your wife says that she no longer loves you and that is partly due to the fact that she is so crippled that she cannot love any man right now*. She is angry, guilty, humiliated, and having to fight thoughts of her self worth and ability to make rational decisions due to her betrayal of spouse and child.

As for what I see in you I see that you want to get your wife back and have a family like you used to. First, right now you cannot tolerate your wife’s disrespect of you.* Part of love is respect and admiration. Your wife has very little or none of those right now for you.*

R*ight now you need to diligently prepare yourself for a life without your wife being the main source of your emotional needs.* You must take up your accountability role and not stand in the way of her consequences for betraying you. That means that she should not get any of the support (financial, emotional, etc) you gave to a faithful marriage partner. This will be hard on you but I think that it is your best chance of getting her back close to some balance.

Your wife needs a real jolt in order to giver her a chance to change. If she does not respect you, admire you or love you then what do you have to lose? 

*To continue in a marriage where the wife does not respect her husband, does not admire her husband, and does not love her husband is a marriage that will be very unhealthy for the child or children*


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

OK, here's the latest:
I tried the 180, she kinda started showing interested, we had a couple nice days. But she still is in the fog, and blames me for her affair and revises history to make the last 5 years sound like hell.

I finally realized she's not in any position to reconcile. She doesn't really blame her self for the affair, she blames me. She has never asked for my forgiveness. She hasn't tried to do anything in the last 4 weeks to fix our marriage. She won't give up her toxic, enabling friends. She wont' go to marriage counseling.

So things have just fallen apart. She's packing and trying to get an apartment today. I will be filing for divorce as soon as the law office opens back up. I've already locked down all the financial accounts so she can't get access to them, except for one that was in her name, so she's got money to live off of but can't drain my savings. 

Any other advice from you guys that have been here? I'm not looking to reconcile at this point, because there's no hope. I'm just looking to protect myself and my kid through the divorce, and try to get through it as painlessly as possible.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Maybe when she get's served it might wake her up but who knows.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Name OM in the divorce papers.

Get a moral clause or some kind of judgement that keeps OM or any over night guest from being around your son when she has him.

Ask for primary custody with 50/50 visitation.

Make sure if she has a roommate or live-in boyfriend that alimony get reduced.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Consult with as many lawyers as you can, at least the top 5 in your area, this will limit her apotion in getting the good ones (lawyers don't like this.

when you do find a lawyer ask who is greatest adviseary is and get a consultation(again lawyers don't like this).

This tactic will give your WW a weaker lawyer do to the conflict of interest in having consulted all the good ones.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

the guy said:


> Name OM in the divorce papers.


Absofreakinglutely!!!!

It amazes me that so many are fearful of doing this. Parade this home wrecking SOB in open court for all to see....regardless of whether or not you live in a no fault state.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Anyone had success doing that (moral clause or judgement) to keep OM away in Texas? 

The idea of that d-bag being around my kid enrages me.


the guy said:


> Name OM in the divorce papers.
> 
> Get a moral clause or some kind of judgement that keeps OM or any over night guest from being around your son when she has him.
> 
> ...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I thought Texas was an at fault state, so here adultory should help you in the divorce court.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

WreckDown said:


> Anyone had success doing that (moral clause or judgement) to keep OM away in Texas?
> 
> The idea of that d-bag being around my kid enrages me.


Again consult with a few lawyers they will have the right answer, or at the very least work something out that will make it very difficult for your WW to have OM spend the night when she has the kid.

Are you keeping a journel? You need to document all the comings and going and the interaction with your kid.

Is the kid going with WW or staying with you?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

No way in hell would I let my kid go with her to her new love shack, she is not the same women that married you.


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## WreckDown (Dec 20, 2012)

Well, we so far have discussed splitting custody 50/50.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Custody is different then visitation.

you should go for primary with 50/50 visitation

Again a lawyer will know the difference and the implications to custody versus visitation.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your WW is bailling on you and the boy should stay in his current home that he knows...stablity is best and the only thing the courts look at is whats best for the kid.

Do a backround check on OM and give it to your lawyer, or have your lawyer do it.

You need to know who and what your son is going to be exposed to.

And stop talking to your wife about these matters, go dark and let your lawyer do the talking.

Right now the only thing on your WW mind is the OM....so keep track of her time with the family by starting a journal....in the months to come it will come in handy.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

WreckDown said:


> OK, here's the latest:
> I tried the 180, she kinda started showing interested, we had a couple nice days. But she still is in the fog, and blames me for her affair and revises history to make the last 5 years sound like hell.
> 
> I finally realized she's not in any position to reconcile. She doesn't really blame her self for the affair, she blames me. She has never asked for my forgiveness. She hasn't tried to do anything in the last 4 weeks to fix our marriage. She won't give up her toxic, enabling friends. She wont' go to marriage counseling.
> ...


Go to dadsdivorce.com

Lawyer & Attorney Ratings : Find Rated Lawyers & Attorneys at Super Lawyers

Are you not interested in reconcilliation?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Any other advice from you guys that have been here? I'm not looking to reconcile at this point, because there's no hope.


Ask your lawyer what evidence would swing the diverse in your favor. After you find out that information then if your wife is doing any of those, get busy documenting for the court date.

As one of the other posters has stated; DO NOT talk to your wife about any thing you are doing to get ready for divorce.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

WreckDown said:


> OK, here's the latest:
> I tried the 180, she kinda started showing interested, we had a couple nice days. But she still is in the fog, and blames me for her affair and revises history to make the last 5 years sound like hell.
> 
> I finally realized she's not in any position to reconcile. She doesn't really blame her self for the affair, she blames me. She has never asked for my forgiveness. She hasn't tried to do anything in the last 4 weeks to fix our marriage. She won't give up her toxic, enabling friends. She wont' go to marriage counseling.
> ...


Double up onthe 180. Read it again. Few people get it right.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

If your wife is doing fitness competitions---she is spending a lot of time, working out, and working on her posing routine----that is the same as a job------cept, she gets no money from it---so she needs to be out working

Cut her off COMPLETELY, right now------If and when your atty tells you differently, then you can change what you have done---right now, tell her, she is responsible for ONE HALF----of everything---mtg payments, insurance payments, car payments, utility payments---living necessities-----get her out of her cushy lifestyle

The life of those who do competitions, can be filled with heavy contact from others of both sexes, so how do you really know---where she is at, in re: who she is associating with, and how she is associating with them----what she is doing----has physical contact attached to it, as she works out, and works her posing routines----It is very possible, there are others she has been in heavy contact with--

--since you are ending this---the above does not matter any more---what does matter is that her cushy little lifestyle ends, and she gets a job, pays half of the family bills, and supports herself----make sure those things happen, and happen beginning NOW


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