# How to move past a bad argument



## NoahBody (Jun 13, 2011)

I had a really awful argument with my wife yesterday.

While I'm quite certain that "Jill" was attempting to instigate a response from me with sarcasm, mimicking, disregarding my polite request, and disregarding my request to stop talking to me (while I was moving my stuff into another room to give us space - I knew I was [as John Gottman calls it] "flooded" and needed to step away.

I accept responsibility that it is my responsibility to control what I say, and recognizing the situation could get ugly I asked "Jill" to give me some space and the opportunity to remove myself from the room. 

I resorted to namecalling, which is not mature or excusable, but can't be undone. Among the things I said to her, I called her a "fat ugly cow." I realize this was not a good idea, and it candidly wasn't my fundamental issue, but as she was picking away at me my instinct in that moment was to exploit a pain point.

In the past, I have made occasional comments (as politely as I could) regarding occasionally wearing makeup, perfume, or dressing in more than a halter top. She has referred to herself as fat but unmotivated to change. I have attempted to explain to her that when she portrays a negative self-image of herself it is unattractive. She cognitively didn't understand my message regarding self-confidence and how we project ourselves outward. I told her in the past that it is her choice whether to diet or change her looks however it is unattractive to talk negatively about her self-image. We also have a lot of issues regarding sex, which is for a different post in a different thread, but the issue about sex is not about her extra pounds, makeup, or what she wears but a larger issue for a different post in a different section of the forum.

I honestly don't consider "Jill" to be a fat ugly cow. I was mad at how she was manipulating the conversation, so I went for the jugular. I recognize at least one of us must stop doing this or the marriage will fail, so I'm willing to do my best to be that person.

Of course given the fact that I've made comments about makeup, clothing, self-image in the past she saw my angry utterance of her as a "fat ugly cow" as a fundamental truth that was unacceptable.

In short order I realized the implications of what I had done, calmed down, accepted responsibility, apologized, and attempted to explain that I didn't really feel that way. "Jill" perhaps understandably doesn't believe me and sees the situation (as many other things) as black and white. We don't have sex, I've made many comments in the past (in her mind) and I just called her a fat ugly cow.

While Jill and I do need to consider whether our marriage overall can be repaired, I do recognize that I am responsible for this specific issue and I'm willing to do anything reasonable to remedy it. While I am certain there was some underlying manipulation (as if she wanted me to lash out at her) at this point this specific argument got so out of hand that I'm willing to avoid dealing with the fundamental issue and separate that out for a separate discussion likely based on a separate conflict.

The behavior, going for the jugular is unfortunately something that was learned between us over years. We had de-escalated from it quite a bit over the past year or two, but it would come up sometimes. While I would do my best to literally forget her hurtful words and move forward, she would keep a verbatim memory of every word she took offense to, meshed them together and would raise them whenever it suited her purpose. She even mentioned something hurtful from 3-4 years ago which we had long since moved past (at least she had agreed so).

You may be thinking that we have a toxic relationship, and perhaps that is in fact the case. But let me tell you the positive things about "Jill" - we have shared religion, financial values, values on raising family (we have 8 month old twin girls), and I value her morals and values tremendously. I do love her, and do my best (as I have done throughout our relationship) to accept her weakness. Bringing children into this world I feel an intense responsibility to provide a "normal" life for them - mom and dad, opportunity for the future, I feel that is an obligation. I would feel awful if we divorce if not for any other reason but also recognizing all the common ground that "Jill" and I have that many other couples don't have.

"Jill" and I have quite a few issues related to communication and sex, issues that I'm not entirely sure we will reconcile (though I'm open to doing so). I'm completely open to admitting when I am wrong, working to fix what is weak, and doing couples counseling or whatever would help us move forward.

Again we have a lot of fundamental issues and blame can be shared between us for a lot of things. However, I would like to somehow get past this one specific issue - I said something that really hurt her (not like we haven't hurt each other before many times, but I think it is wearing thin for both of us).

It scares me that she seems to be using this one specific issue as a possible excuse to step back from the relationship, not go with me to a family function across the country (where dozens of family members are anxious to meet the twins for the first time) and not have me go with her back to her hometown to see the family next month. I pointed out to her that going to the family function is about having the twins forge relationships with my extended family who are eager to meet them and is not about punishing me but punishes my family and the twins. She somewhat understands that - the trip is supposed to start on Thursday.

Part of me thinks she wanted to create a situation like this as a subtext to distance herself further from me, paint me as a terrible husband (I have my moments but I do a lot for her and our family and have made many sacrifices to try to make her happy), and possibly give an excuse to separate or divorce.

If "Jill" truly doesn't want to work on our marriage and insists on holding everything over my head without admitting her own contributions to where we are at, I realize I'm in a "lose-lose" situation and perhaps there is nothing I can do. I also don't like the fact that I am unable to address the fundamental issue that created the conflict because I must make ammends for what I said, but I'm willing to bury that hatchet and take responsibility for what I did (the only fear I have is validating her conduct and affirming her internal beliefs about what truly happened).

Bottom line: I said things I never should have said, take ownership for that, want to create a path to move forward, and want "Jill" to accompany the twins and I to a family function on Thursday. 

I know neither of us can fix our marriage by Thursday, but if "Jill" chooses to harm me by not going on the trip it really harms a whole lot of other people and will only serve to escalate the situation in terms of us being even more distanced.

I feel like "Jill" will not believe me no matter what I say to her, or what I do, and the harder I try the more it appears to fuel her disbelief.

I really don't know what else to do. Perhaps I just tell her how important the trip is to the twins and my family and it will punish them most not to go. She can be mad at me but don't take it out on other people. I've already tried to tell her this. Even though I've never given her reason to distrust me, she seems to want to believe what she wants about this.

I've rambled way too much for now. What I'm looking for is advice on how best to address this situation, then I can try to sort out the more fundamental issues that we have. I would appreciate any advice from men or women on what I can do. I don't see this as a "flowers and chocolate" sort of thing and the nicer I try to be the more defensive she seems to get.

What a mess


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I think the best way to deal with the family trip is to drop the issue. The more you push it on her the more reluctant she will be. If she doesn't go can the twins not go? I don't see any reason they cant go without her. 

Apologies are a good start but will never counter the pain. You have to be able to give it years to heal. My H and I have exchanged some very nasty comments. We are both changing and have been doing well for about a year but there is still residual pain on both our parts. It takes many years of good interaction to change those nasty fights.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Name calling is like hammering nails on a wall, even though you apologize, and take the nails off the wall, there are still ugly holes left! People who were hurt can do their best to forgive, but the scar will always be there, it is ugly. No matter how justified you were at the beginning, as soon as name calling started, it shows one person's ill manner! 

I hate name calling. I stay away from people who have ill manners. As soon as the person called me names, I lost my respect for that person right away, I decided not to see this person or talk to this person again! 

What happened has happened. If you want your wife to let it go, heartfelt apologize must be shown to her, and promise her it will never happen again.


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## NoahBody (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback.

Fortunately, last night my wife agreed to go on the trip since Sunday is father's day.

I've done all I can to apologize for my conduct and bury the issue regarding her behavior that triggered it. I'm going to make a renewed focus to find a way to avoid slipping into this situation in the future. She knows exactly how to bait me, but if I need to take a walk or exit the situation that is a far better situation than to allow the situation to escalate.

It is all too easy to make judgments on strangers and nobody here (I presume) knows me in real life. However, in my own defense I would like to emphasize that both my wife and I have engaged in this behavior to varying degrees and there is a fair amount of manipulation and escalation involved. There is virtually always a polite but direct request (repeated) on my part to de-escalate or step back from the situation for some time. Historically, when that has not been honored is when I sometimes push back - and when I don't push back I feel walked on.

I've never been good at handling sarcasm, mimicking, mocking behavior. My wife believes sarcasm is funny, I bleieve it is negative and dark and counterproductive.

Honestly I feel that she tries to trigger these situations in order to justify her own conduct 'because he did x'. Obviously if I avoid the situation entirely in the future at least in that respect I can keep out of trouble.

Here is the thing - if you are unable to in good faith forgive your spouse for something you are sincerely sorry about... how do you go about making room for future growth? If I have some argument thrown back at me from 5 years ago (which has happened) that we've hashed out and I've all but forgotten, where is the space to create future memories. If we can't forgive and fill our minds with better memories, how can we even go forward. Resentment is very toxic and doesn't leave room for positive growth.

At least i am cognizant of my shortcomings, willing to admit when I'm wrong, and apologize sincerely. If I work toward improving my behavior and conduct I'm not sure there is much else I can do but try to move forward. Discussing or debating the specific situation over and over won't yield a productive outcome.

So how can I turn a negative situation around or at least move forward so we can work toward better things. >


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Well, she may not be manipulating you with it... I just had a recent conversation with my 16 yo daughter about words hurting and not being able to take it back. 

She (and her father) are the types that can lash out, and just brush it off and move on. I am not. And they are always accusing me of doing it on purpose to punish them which I assure you I am not. 

I am TRULY hurt and honestly, them accusing me of manipulating them rather them then truly seeing they HURT me makes the hurt even worse. It is like they are pouring slat into the wound they created with their words, and they talk about my difference in reaction like a character flaw-- again, making the hurt EVEN worse. 

I don't know if this helps at all.


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## mizzi (May 14, 2012)

This is a real long shot as it's almost a year since the last post, but I found this thread via Google and wondered how things panned out from Noahbody & his wife.

I have a similar situation which has been going on for over a month, my husband was frustrated with me (I've had depression which I'm trying to overcome with therapy) and after he had a few drinks the resentment boiled over and he vented his rage at me. He said a lot of very harsh things about my personality, and kept going even when I started crying which is really hard for me to deal with now - he has since apologised and feels very bad but the words & behaviour can't be taken back. He says he didn't mean it but deep down I think he must have, because these things don't come from nowhere.

Bottom line is I don't fully trust him anymore, even though I know he is truly sorry. I want to forgive him and I'm trying hard to do so, I still love & care for him & know he feels so bad with himself but I feel like something has been destroyed & that something is trust. Can we ever get it back?

Reading the replies I feel heartened a little by Blanca's reply that it can take years but hurt can be healed to some degree - I'd hate for us to feel like this forever. Has anyone else any advice on how to heal & restore trust?


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