# I wanted to separate. Therapist asks: What would it take to make you happy?



## ewazomed (Apr 20, 2018)

I still lack chemistry toward my wife, and feel like I don't care about anything but our child and work. Since I've stopped masturbating (last year?) my hormones must have shot up along with my feelings toward everyone else except my wife, and my wandering eye is causing guilt and internal conflict.

In the first session after I said the word "separate", the therapist ask me "What would it take to make you happy in this marriage?" and I couldn't think of anything. I said "If the spark came back."

He said "it's normal for it to be gone after a decade... it's up to you to find your own happiness. You shouldn't make major decisions while unhappy, and you need to improve your life first before making the jump."

The therapist is amazingly talented and helped us resolve our conflicts and improved our lives immensely. I still felt unhappy in the relationship and felt like I needed a complete reset on life. I had thought we were only seeing the therapist for half a year... but we were actually in our second year of counseling. Where did the time go?

On the one hand, making life altering decisions while depressed is a recipe for disaster. (My own psychologist says i'm bored and stressed, not depressed.) On the other hand, if only happy people get divorced, the divorce rate would certainly drop down.

Do I wait? Find a hobby, get involved in sports, make more friends, spend more time with the family? After a few months/years of working on my own happiness, I'll be in a better place hopefully and could make a clearer decision then? Or do I continue full steam ahead and roll the dice of regret later?

How do you ever know "its time?"


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I have a question for you. How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, without children or anyone else with you, doing things that you both enjoy?

What are the things that you two do together during this time?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Even if you leave, you will be attempting to discover what makes you happy, so you won't be bored and continue in this "funk". 

I think your counselor is right. And, who knows? Maybe you will find your wife is the one, after all? If not, you have found what you will want to do while you live alone for a period of time.


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## ewazomed (Apr 20, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> I have a question for you. How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, without children or anyone else with you, doing things that you both enjoy?
> 
> What are the things that you two do together during this time?


We used to share a passion in the same sport, but since we both suffered shoulder/back/knee injuries neither of us are able to play anymore. Outside of that we thing, we currently have no shared interests. The therapist gave us a big list of activities, and the things we both checked off: painting, dancing, hiking, etc., neither of us are excited about. She's away traveling 80% of the workweek and it's still increasing each year. I', self employed and work 100 hrs/wk. It took a decade to build up and getting the clients back later will be fairly difficult.

She's willing to scale way down on our expenses and cut way back on hours. I think that will certainly improve our marriage. My greatest fear is that we both give up our 6 digit income, find out it's still not working, and be stuck in an even worse quandary.

I think the therapist is 100% right if our goal was to maximize the chance this marriage would work, we would want to move heaven and earth until all options are exhausted. If our goal is to maximize the number of happy years left, at some point an extra 1% chance of making it better vs a 5% chance of making it worse isn't worth flipping the coin.


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## ewazomed (Apr 20, 2018)

2ntnuf said:


> Even if you leave, you will be attempting to discover what makes you happy, so you won't be bored and continue in this "funk".
> 
> I think your counselor is right. And, who knows? Maybe you will find your wife is the one, after all? If not, you have found what you will want to do while you live alone for a period of time.


I feel like I've been drinking coke all my life. I've never had Pepsi or Seven Up. I woudn't know how to make Coke better if someone asked; I just know I don't like Coke. And Coke doesn't like it if I start trying Pepsi behind her back.

I feel like on the one hand I can say goodbye to Coke forever. On the other hand, I can try adding a bit more sugar, a bit more lime, mix in a little zest oil, and maybe I'll like it a lot. But no one lives forever and on my death bed, I'm not at all sure which would be the bigger regret: not trying harder, or staying in it for as long as I did.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

ewazomed said:


> I feel like I've been drinking coke all my life. I've never had Pepsi or Seven Up. I woudn't know how to make Coke better if someone asked; I just know I don't like Coke. And Coke doesn't like it if I start trying Pepsi behind her back.
> 
> I feel like on the one hand I can say goodbye to Coke forever. On the other hand, I can try adding a bit more sugar, a bit more lime, mix in a little zest oil, and maybe I'll like it a lot. But no one lives forever and on my death bed, I'm not at all sure which would be the bigger regret: not trying harder, or staying in it for as long as I did.


This is the mentality my stbxh has/had about me and our marriage. It made me feel like garbage. My advice would be for you to leave and find yourself and your happiness and let your wife find someone who really loves her. The sooner the better. The longer you hang on the bigger your resentment will grow until you can’t stand her, although it sounds like you’re pretty much there already.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

It's amazing to me what women stay and put up with. Well, actually, it's really stupid and nothing amazing about it all. I have no idea how you told her or what specific words you used, but what it boiled down to was "I don't want you any more," upon which she was supposed to pack up and go on about her business.

That also would have had an affect on you, but hey, no accounting for a woman's dignity anymore is all I ever see these days.

And now you're weighing the possibility of trying against the odds of an undesirable outcome and concluding it really won't be worth it. Meaning, she's not worth it, trying won't be worth the effort in the end if it doesn't work out. And the family unit you brought a child into isn't worth it. She's just an old penny of no value at all and easily discarded. The wife appliance is all used up. And your kid is just collateral damage for whom you will later solicit her cooperation - i.e. try to bend to your will - under the guise of "for our child's well being" that didn't matter to you one bit during your discarding phase.

Make up your mind already. I hear Walmart sells values really cheap because you need some. The people in your life have value, but that aspect of themselves mean nothing to you when they no longer play your game of Bring Me Happiness or Go Straight To Jail. 

You didn't even think about whatever amount of your income you would lose isn't working out for you anyway because it's that extra effort to earn it and those extra hours that are destroying your life. So they would serve to destroy your life should you decide to leave your wife. If you cannot devote any time to your wife and family due to all the extra hours you devote to obtaining more of the almighty dollar you worship so much, then how many other women will put up with you never having any time to spend with them? Okay, okay I concede there are lots of loose women these days, so you'd get all the coochie you could ask for, but you won't get a meaningful relationship unless you do what you don't think your wife and kid are worth doing for right now. You will still have to take that exact same chance with the exact same possible odds for the outcome.

Your wife kid should mean more to you than the money anyway.

Commit to something. Since you ARE married, then you should commit to your marriage and family. But you won't even commit to a dance? A hike? It doesn't what if the thought of the activity tickles your fancy. The point is to do something together. You can't find anything that will interest you both if you won't commit to trying something.

You're in a rut, and you're very much enjoying residence there. That's actually very normal, but you have to MAKE yourself, FORCE yourself to do something. The more you do, the sooner you will pull yourself out of that rut. Start by FORCING yourself to commit to your wife and child. And from there, make yourself work toward building your life together back up. You won't be the first person in the world to have to sacrifice something. Everybody has to sacrifice, but you keep trying so hard to prevent having to sacrifice anything at all. You claimed in your first sentence that you care about your kid, but you really don't because you refuse to commit to him/her. You refuse to do for him/her what parents are supposed to do. If nothing else, make a decision in your kid's favor. Become a real parent.

There's an activity I'm asking you and your wife to do, yet I'm asking you to commit to doing this even though you don't want to make decision or commit to anything, least of all your marriage and family. Just do it anyway. Force yourself.

The 36 Questions That Lead To Love
After completing all of the questions, you have to stare into each other's eyes for a full 4 minutes.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

2ntnuf said:


> Even if you leave, you will be attempting to discover what makes you happy, so you won't be bored and continue in this "funk".
> 
> I think your counselor is right. And, who knows? Maybe you will find your wife is the one, after all? If not, you have found what you will want to do while you live alone for a period of time.


I agree here. But I would honestly like to here why you lost the spark. Did you wife's appearance change, or were you guys arguing or what? 

Two years MC is a long time, seems to me though if it was fixable it would take less than two years. 

You need to figure out what is up, if you cannot be happy with her the you do need to leave. 

But I would like more information?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ewazomed said:


> I feel like I've been drinking coke all my life. I've never had Pepsi or Seven Up. I woudn't know how to make Coke better if someone asked; I just know I don't like Coke. And Coke doesn't like it if I start trying Pepsi behind her back.
> 
> I feel like on the one hand I can say goodbye to Coke forever. On the other hand, I can try adding a bit more sugar, a bit more lime, mix in a little zest oil, and maybe I'll like it a lot. But no one lives forever and on my death bed, *I'm not at all sure which would be the bigger regret: not trying harder, or staying in it for as long as I did.*


There is a point when you know it's time to end the marriage.


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## ewazomed (Apr 20, 2018)

azimuth said:


> This is the mentality my stbxh has/had about me and our marriage. It made me feel like garbage. My advice would be for you to leave and find yourself and your happiness and let your wife find someone who really loves her. The sooner the better. The longer you hang on the bigger your resentment will grow until you can’t stand her, although it sounds like you’re pretty much there already.


I'm sorry he made you feel that way. There's a life guard rule "you never swim beside a drowning man. He will pull you down with him." I feel guilty that my unhappiness is dragging her life down as well. I have some friends saying I should rip off the band-aid so the wound can start healing. I have others who think we must keep trying until all other options are exhausted. Both of us were deeply unhappy and she was ready to pack up 2 years ago. After our years of therapy, she said she's happier than ever and I'm feeling worse than ever. Ironically, the therapy is making this feel worse.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

You are growing apart because you don't spend time together. She travels all the time and you work very long hours. As long as this is the case the marriage won't survive. No marriage will under these circumstances.


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## ewazomed (Apr 20, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I agree here. But I would honestly like to here why you lost the spark. Did you wife's appearance change, or were you guys arguing or what?
> 
> Two years MC is a long time, seems to me though if it was fixable it would take less than two years.
> 
> ...


She's mostly stayed the same but I've changed. She's gained about 40lb, which is not unusual for someone after 10 years. I think my tastes changed from being into tomboys to girly girls. She's brash, assertive, and never wore makeup. When we went house shopping, she shot down my suggestions and forged ahead with her choice. When we furniture shopping, she ignored by suggestions and got what she wanted. When her parents wanted a new car or vacation or help paying gambling debts, she would take hundreds of thousands of dollars from our joint account and ignore my anger. All her paycheck goes straight to her parents too. 

In addition to our marriage therapist, I'm only seeing my own therapist, and I need to be more assertive and stop letting her walk all over me. Aside from the years we have to together and our child (which are both immensely important), I feel like there's nothing in this marriage for me. Before, we had physical attraction. Now, we don't even have that.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

ewazomed said:


> She's mostly stayed the same but I've changed. She's gained about 40lb, which is not unusual for someone after 10 years. I think my tastes changed from being into tomboys to girly girls. She's brash, assertive, and never wore makeup. When we went house shopping, she shot down my suggestions and forged ahead with her choice. When we furniture shopping, she ignored by suggestions and got what she wanted. When her parents wanted a new car or vacation or help paying gambling debts, she would take hundreds of thousands of dollars from our joint account and ignore my anger. All her paycheck goes straight to her parents too.
> 
> In addition to our marriage therapist, I'm only seeing my own therapist, and I need to be more assertive and stop letting her walk all over me. Aside from the years we have to together and our child (which are both immensely important), I feel like there's nothing in this marriage for me. Before, we had physical attraction. Now, we don't even have that.


Has any of this conduct changed since marriage counseling started?

I strongly suggest both of you reading:
His Needs, Her Needs
Love Busters

All of your issues are discussed in those books.


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## ewazomed (Apr 20, 2018)

StarFires said:


> It's amazing to me what women stay and put up with. Well, actually, it's really stupid and nothing amazing about it all. I have no idea how you told her or what specific words you used, but what it boiled down to was "I don't want you any more," upon which she was supposed to pack up and go on about her business.
> 
> That also would have had an affect on you, but hey, no accounting for a woman's dignity anymore is all I ever see these days.
> 
> ...


I certainly agree with you that people have value. What is happiness if you have no one to share it with. The fun of winning the championship is celebrating with friends and calling up your family to say "we did it!" 

If people had no value, we've would have separated five years ago. Just as it's unfair to ignore the value of one spouse, it's equally unfair to ignore the value of other spouse. It would be pretty rare for a happy husband and happy wife to both want a divorce.

I don't want to make it seem like we don't do anything. We do go out for dinner most nights of the week. We go out on family trips every weekend. We have gone through that "Love Quiz" questions and many other similar ones. 

We're definitely in a rut, and I can't imagine anyone saying its pleasant.


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## ewazomed (Apr 20, 2018)

Rick Blaine said:


> Has any of this conduct changed since marriage counseling started?
> 
> I strongly suggest both of you reading:
> His Needs, Her Needs
> ...


Thank you for the recommendation. I'll pick them up.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

Have you told her you’re not attracted to her anymore? Have you told her you’re not into tomboys anymore? What was her reaction? Does your therapist know? You said she walks all over you. Has the therapist given you exercises to stand up for yourself to not allow this to happen anymore?

Have you been entirely honest with her about what you’re feeling? It’s like you don’t even like her anymore. You think everything will be solved if you can go off and find someone “better” someone who’s girly and prettier and not assertive.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why do you allow these things?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## ewazomed (Apr 20, 2018)

azimuth said:


> Have you told her you’re not attracted to her anymore? Have you told her you’re not into tomboys anymore? What was her reaction? Does your therapist know? You said she walks all over you. Has the therapist given you exercises to stand up for yourself to not allow this to happen anymore?
> 
> Have you been entirely honest with her about what you’re feeling? It’s like you don’t even like her anymore. You think everything will be solved if you can go off and find someone “better” someone who’s girly and prettier and not assertive.


Yes, I've told her that I'm not attracted to her anymore, and naturally she is quite hurt by it. She says she's ok if we're never intimate as long as I'm willing to give her more children. 

I think part of the reason my attraction went was because of a build up of resentment. There were a 2 year period where I tried to make it work and wasn't successful. We would go on dates and end up in an argument. I wasn't dancing well enough to attract her. I Wasn't assertive enough when dealing with the waiter. I was driving too fast on the way home. I came to bed with the socks on. All the dates ended up with my fuming on the patio while she went to bed early. That was the period we started to harbor a lot of negativity with each other. 

That was one of the areas we worked on with our therapist. My tolerance for frustrations and negativity has gone way up, and she's much more positive and receptive now. But when she comes up to me I still feel disgusted and repulsed. 

I think a lot of problems could be solved by starting with someone with a clean slate and being better at recognizing problems before they start a death spiral. We are working on forgetting the past and only focus on the positive present. My wife is great and is now acting over the top enamored but I'm too petty to be able to let it go.


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## ewazomed (Apr 20, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Why do you allow these things?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I think it's because doing nothing is easier than facing conflict. She's better at dealing with conflict having grown up in a narcissistic and emotionally abusive household. I'm working at being more assertive now but still have some ways to go.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She took hundreds of thousands of dollars from your JOINT account and gave to her parents who are gamblers and in debt?
That’s a deal breaker.

Why do you have at this time a JOINT account?
Seems pretty easy. You handle your money and she gives hers to her parents.

You e got a huge amount of built up resentment.

Whether it’s savable, only you can decide


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Dude!!!!! :-O

She sounds like a nightmare.

She gave her parents 100k to cover gambling debts without your consent?

She's ok not having intimacy with you but wants to crap out more kids that you get to pay for and change diapers for????

No wonder you are depressed. You have been a doormat and have let her wipe her dirty feet on you as she walks on you every day. And you wonder why you feel unhappy and unfulfilled.

I'm not a professional and I haven't been to therapist school, but I disagree with your therapist that you shouldn't make big decisions or make big changes when you are unhappy.

I think that when things are not working is when you SHOULD look at other options and change your course of action.

The reason you are unhappy in your marriage is not because you don't play golf enough. It's because your wife is a b---h and you have been a doormat that has given up your own wants and needs to conform to her will and her strong personality. 

This is something that chicks usually say about themselves before they walk out the door and start screwing their boss, but you have list yourself. 

My suggestion as a first step is to get your balls back and start standing up for yourself and start doing what is best for you whether she likes it or not.

Get your own bank account and change as much stuff to your name so she can't empty out all of your money.

Absolutely DO NOT impregnate her again!!!

If either of you are horny, she can give you a BJ but under no circumstances get your sperm in the same area code of her ovaries.

When you stop being a doormat and start becoming your own man, one of two things will happen.

One is she will respect you and treat you better and things will improve in your life and in your marriage as a couple. 

Or the other is she will not like it and will pack her stuff to find another doormat to ruin and your life as an individual will improve. 

Either way, you win.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

For me, I knew it was time when my husband had nothing to give me in way of his time, his affection. He was only interested in saying that he had a wife, but it felt like he had no interest in actually having a wife, and putting the effort into our relationship to make it work. It's hard to make it work by oneself, and by the time we had nearly hit our fourth year of marriage, I was exhausted, sad, frustrated, and done being the only one who was taking marriage seriously. We separated just over a year ago, and the divorce will soon be finalized.

It sounds like you guys need to reconnect, and find some shared interests, and spend some time together. Is there any way that either of you can cut back on work hours/work travel?


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