# Can we be saved?



## nlight14 (Sep 16, 2013)

Sorry reposting with a more proper title.

Me - M 33 - W F 28

I don't know what to do, I have been beside myself with grief. I really wish I had found this resource a couple weeks ago, as it may have helped me not accidentally make things worse. 

The short story: She woke up 3 weeks ago, said she doesn't feel in love with me (the big red flag from MMSL), said she respects me more than anyone in her entire life, but doesn't think she loves me. She recently had a scare from an ovarian cyst, which ended up luckily going away on it's own, when the Dr. originally thought it might be something more serious and scared her pretty badly. She had been having back pain for years. I told her I was willing to do whatever it takes to make this work, we have a 3 year old little girl. 

Originally she agreed to work on things and get counseling with me, as things have gone over the past 3 weeks she has gotten more cold, all hugging, kissing, "I love yous" and other verbal affection has ceased, and it's like I have a roomate. She now says she does not want to work on anything with me, but when I ask, "so are you divorcing me", her response is "I didn't say that". 
So confused and hurt!

Some backstory: 
We have been together almost 4 years, this was not a planned marriage, however we didn't feel like it was forced either, we really loved each other and were excited to start our life with our new little girl. 

We have had what I would consider, normal, marital spats, most often directly associated with her period. Specifically, about 2 days before, almost always. She is a hot head, and her father was a hot head, and I have been straight up screamed at, i mean total loss of control, she has an almost elementary like, "I Hate you", "I never want to speak with you" type vocabulary when she is mad. While I don't enjoy this aspect of her, I know this about her, and try to stand by her and help her through things like this. I can say it definitely has created resentment in me, and I have participated several times more than I ever should have, and when I say nasty things, they unfortunately are more sharp and pointed than a simple "I hate you".

I would still say that easily 90%+ of our time is good to great (in my opinion). Several weeks ago, while she was on her period, as we were cleaning one day, she got frustrated and said that I don't do anything for "us". I was blown away by this accusation, as myself, family, and others close to us, have felt and observed that I almost do too much, and get taken advantage of. I have been responsible for the majority of my daughters care over her first 3 years, my wife worked retail years 1-2 and would regularly get home at 10pm or later on closing shifts, and if we were lucky we would have 2 Sundays a month together, most of the time less, my daughter was in my care on all of these weekends, after I worked a long week. I am the one who never got a break. On her weekdays off, she would take our daughter to school/daycare anyway. This always bothered me, and caused several arguments. She claimed it was to keep our daughter on a schedule and so she could clean, etc, but most of the time, she never cleaned, and would go shopping, get lunch etc... She has had the audacity to say things during fights, that because she is the mother, and carried our daughter 9 months, she is the primary caregiver etc... To be honest, she doesn't help much around the house, she is consistently tired enough to goto bed by 7 or 8pm, and I make this happen for her. I tell her "no worries I will take care of everything". If some of this rambles on, I apologize, I am so lost as a person right now.

On the day she made the insenuation that I did nothing for "us", she informed me that while she respects me, more than anyone in the entire world, she doesn't think she loves me anymore. Queue the alarms, panic attacks, anxiety, and grasping/holding on tighter than ever that has probably resulted in driving her further away then ever. She said she needed space to figure things out, I was raised that you never, ever let a problem fester, and never goto bed mad, etc, etc. So I went into "fixing" mode, which only has served to allow her to blame me for not giving her space and making her more angry than ever. She went from saying she wanted to work on things for our daughter and get counseling to now saying she doesn't want to work on anything with me. She has been ridiculously cold to me. She now works M-F but is out of town 1-3 days a week, overnight. Before she left on Sunday, I tried to say "I love you" and give her a hug before travel, to be a good example to our daughter. I was physically, lighly shoved off and given a death stare when she got to the door.

I have since read about 180, and have made an appointment to see an MC. I question now wether to even ask if she wants to go, or just go for me. I have a lawyer friend, and he recommended based on some of her language, and threats to be "nasty" that at the very least I see a lawyer and get stuff in order.

She also transferred money out of our joint account, into her personal account, in case she "needs to find a place for her and our daughter". Yet she is still in our home, and still calls me when she needs something. There is not much talking other than that going on, when I broach the subject of "What is going on with us", i get instant anger. She says I am the best dad she has ever seen and would never keep our little girl from us. She recently got scared by an ovarian cyst and I am wondering if I am dealing with a young MLC or WAW.

Edit: My biggest problem with this whole thing, is I just can't grasp the idea of divorce. I give my daughter and wife 150% effort and go above and beyond any time I can. My daughter deserves 100% of my time, not 50%. I work with her, I teach her, I give her everything. Her mom believes an iPad is an acceptable substitution for her (wife's) attention. I just don't believe the same, and I have this horrible fear of a court's bias for a mother and daughter. Additionally, I am not sure either one of us has enough money to let it goto court, and I can't see her agreeing that I am in a better situation for our daughter (even though my job is set 8:30-5:30 M-F, with no traveling), and I feel I put far more effort into our daughter than she does. She is a person very conscious of judgement and would never let herself be viewed as the failing, or less than 50% parent.

I just wanted to start this thread, maybe even almost as a diary and for feedback.


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## Oblivious2678 (Sep 3, 2013)

Definitely go with the 180 plan. Focus on yourself and become stronger mentally and physically. Do not come off desperate and pushy to her. I did this initially thanks to panic and anxiety and it is not a good formula. Be yourself, be cordial, be confident. The less pressure she feels, the better chance she will be willing to work on things down the road, but let her come to you. I've done a lot of reading and soul searching to help this since I am going through a similar situation at this present time. Stay confident and take baby steps when and if she is ready, but for now, I repeat, it's all about you.


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## nlight14 (Sep 16, 2013)

Should I even mention the marriage counseling at this point? Or just go ahead and go by myself? Do I even tell her I am going if I go by myself?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You seem to be assuming there's no third party in your marriage, yet there's lots of warning signs. Why is that?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oblivious2678 (Sep 3, 2013)

You go by yourself. You don't tell her. IC is a part of bettering yourself. If she asks, then you tell her that you have been attending and talk about the positives you have received from it. Don't invite her to go. She may ask if she can go with you next time, but do not initiate anything. Let her come to you. I know it is going to EXTREMELY difficult to do this, but you have to. This is not a quick fix. It will take some time. Be prepared for that and have patience.


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## nlight14 (Sep 16, 2013)

I have questioned the same thing. She does travel, and stays overnight for her job often. Since her job, literally has to do with cellphones and her phone is provided by her job, it never leaves her side and it is the job's policy that it must be locked, since it has work email on it, and this has been true since day 1 of dating and I know it to be a valid company policy for her company. Convenient for her I suppose. So I can't say there has been a change in how she acts with that.

I cannot say if there would be an OM, and if so if it may be PA or EA. I am however, not a person who is overlooking the possibility, just haven't found any evidence at this point, I have been looking for it.





PBear said:


> You seem to be assuming there's no third party in your marriage, yet there's lots of warning signs. Why is that?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nlight14 (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks, I have been leaning towards this same line of thinking on my own, it helps to hear another person validate my thoughts.



Oblivious2678 said:


> You go by yourself. You don't tell her. IC is a part of bettering yourself. If she asks, then you tell her that you have been attending and talk about the positives you have received from it. Don't invite her to go. She may ask if she can go with you next time, but do not initiate anything. Let her come to you. I know it is going to EXTREMELY difficult to do this, but you have to. This is not a quick fix. It will take some time. Be prepared for that and have patience.


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## Oblivious2678 (Sep 3, 2013)

You put on the 180. If you have conversations with her, NEVER bring up the subject unless she does. Go to IC because they may help you discover something that you may be overlooking. You can do this.


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## nlight14 (Sep 16, 2013)

I am not sure if I fully grasp the 180, an example. Last night I went to the gym for some me time, something I haven't done at all since the marriage and birth of our daughter, because of wanting to spend time with our family together. 

On the way home, knowing she would not have eaten or gotten herself anything, I texted her and asked if she would like anything, and brought her food when I got myself food. Would 180 have been not to contact her at all, and show up with my own food and look like a thoughtless jerk?


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## Oblivious2678 (Sep 3, 2013)

I forgot that you are still living together. If texting her and bringing her home dinner is something you would normally do, then that was an okay gesture. Don't do anything out of your ordinary actions. If you have some to-do list items on your plate that you've put off for a long time, now is not the time do to them because she will see you as doing it just to make her happy. 

Your situation will be unique because you are still living together. You will have to remain cordial. I would keep everything the same, sleeping arrangements, arrangements for your daughter, etc. until she says she wants to change them. You let her be in control of everything and you just focus on things other than her and your marriage. If the opportunity presents itself where she brings up the subject, you may want to advise that you or her stay with family or a close friend for a little while to allow both of you to think things over. Arrange for each other to spend time with your daughter as well. See what she says to that.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I agree with Oblivious, except for the last part about advising that you or her stay with family or a friend or whoever. If a divorce is a possibility and kids are involved, you should never ever offer to leave the home. She could use that to make a case for abandonment, or make you appear to be a less stable/caring parent than she is. The fact that she took money from a shared account just in case she felt that she needed to go find a place to stay for her AND your daughter is an enormous red flag. I think it needs to be clear in no uncertain terms that neither you, nor your daughter, will be leaving the home. I'm not saying that you need to formally notify her when you get home tonight, as that will only cause problems. But if the suggestion comes up at some point of you or your daughter leaving to stay elsewhere for a while or anything similar, you really need to just calmly oppose any such suggestion as unacceptable.


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## Oblivious2678 (Sep 3, 2013)

Good point cdbaker. I didn't think of it like that. The separation aspect should probably come from a counselor instead of initiating it right away yourself.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

It sounds like she is seeing someone outside the marriage.

On these trips does she drive her car?

Would a voice activated recorder under her car seat help here?


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## nlight14 (Sep 16, 2013)

I had already spoken to a lawyer friend and he advised me the same, under no circumstances leave the house myself. He also told me that she does have the right to take herself and my daughter to another place, IF she advises me exactly where they will be, and how to get ahold of her, and see my daughter. If she does not tell me where they are going, she can have legal charges filed against her. If anyone knows more about that aspect of things, please chime in.


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## nlight14 (Sep 16, 2013)

She does drive her car, the company reimburses her for travel. I had never considered a voice activated recorder, thats a great idea, and now I know what VAR meant in all those threads.





Shaggy said:


> It sounds like she is seeing someone outside the marriage.
> 
> On these trips does she drive her car?
> 
> Would a voice activated recorder under her car seat help here?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

nlight14 said:


> I had already spoken to a lawyer friend and he advised me the same, under no circumstances leave the house myself. He also told me that she does have the right to take herself and my daughter to another place, IF she advises me exactly where they will be, and how to get ahold of her, and see my daughter. If she does not tell me where they are going, she can have legal charges filed against her. If anyone knows more about that aspect of things, please chime in.


Laws vary depending on where you live. 

C


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## nlight14 (Sep 16, 2013)

PBear said:


> Laws vary depending on where you live.
> 
> C


Yeah, I figure that since he is a lawyer here, he knows best. This is so ridiculously heart breaking and scary, I am having panic/anxiety attacks almost daily. It has been better since I read about 180 and realized I have limited control over what happens.


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## Oblivious2678 (Sep 3, 2013)

I had consistent anxiety attacks for a week before they got under control. Now I have them once in a great while and use the deep breath method to control it. I took a med the week after that crazy week, but after that I took it over with some deep breathes. I view any meds as a weakness and I wanted my wife to know I didn't need them anymore. You will be okay.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

nlight14 said:


> Yeah, I figure that since he is a lawyer here, he knows best. This is so ridiculously heart breaking and scary, I am having panic/anxiety attacks almost daily. It has been better since I read about 180 and realized I have limited control over what happens.


That is correct. The 180 is for you. Not your wife.

You cannot control her but you can control you!

Stay calm, dispassionate towards her.

Did she tell you she was removing money out of the joint account?

No matter what you do right now do not tell her about conversations with the lawyer. Get the var, place it in the car and do not tell her you have it.

A 2nd one in the house in a spot she talks a lot can help shed light on what is going on.

And if you do find out about another person involved with her do not confront.

Come back here first so we can advise you. Do it this way to your advantage. 

Be smart, be cool towards her and focus on yourself.

Secure your assets as well.

HM


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## nlight14 (Sep 16, 2013)

What would be entailed with securing assets?

I believe I am in a good position here but want to make sure


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