# Questions about gaslighting



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

My H never filled out the his needs/her needs questionnaires or read Divorce Busters of 7 Principles, even though I've asked him too. I was going to keep pushing, but I'm wondering if we need to address our other issues with a MC first?

Specifically, I've been reading up on gaslighting since I learned the term here a few days ago. I'd never seen it before, and I was shocked that there's a word for what I've been experiencing for so long. H has consistently, for 12 years, said something and then denied saying it. Pretty much every time I'd tried to have a conversation about our relationship in the past 12 years, he's said something utterly insane or offensive within the first few minutes. Then, he'll immediately deny saying it. The discussion would devolve into an argument over who had said what. Every time. Only recently (thanks to the people at TAM), have I learned to just walk away when he starts it. 

But wow, now that I've seen the term... I'm so sad. It really messed with my head. It took a long time, because I'm a really confident person, but when the sleep deprivation got intense, I had a hard time keeping up with our conversations. He'd say one thing, then say the exact opposite, then deny saying either thing. I'd get confused, and even started to wonder if I was having a nervous breakdown.

Now, I'm starting to question if he ever messed with my environment too. I went through a phase of losing my credit cards a lot when I first met him. Was that him? I had this experience that really freaked me out involving a pair of tweezers that disappeared one day and seemingly reappeared out of nowhere while we were taking a walk. Was that all him? He says it wasn't, but he's never told me the truth before. How can I believe him?

I was pushing him to do the emotional needs questionnaire (he still hadn't), but now I'm wondering, are we too far gone for that to work? Should we wait until we have a chance to talk through the gaslighting with the therapist?

I hate this feeling. I came here feeling like I'd experienced a level of neglect that was abusive, but I wasn't expecting confirmation. I thought I was too sensitive.... What the heck do I do now??


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Can you record conversations when he starts doing that?


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Lyris said:


> Can you record conversations when he starts doing that?


I have fantasized about doing that! It would be hard, because I can never tell when he's going to do it for sure, though he reliably does it when we have a serious conversation, especially an "us" kind of conversation. But he's admitted to doing it now, so I'm not sure what recording it would accomplish. (He says he doesn't do it on purpose.)


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## nothingleft (Aug 22, 2012)

sounds like a classic case! i feel for you, only recently did i discover this term as well and although at first it sent me for a loop, now i go aha! i dont feel like im going crazy anymore or questioning my gut instincts. i dont know if anything you do will change it or not, when i confronted my bf with hard evidence of his lies, he continued to spin the story or avoid giving me any reply at all and tried to redirect the conversation. when that didnt work for him as i pushed him to answer me he got angry and told me i was this horrible person and said all kinds of negative things about me and accused me of stuff i didnt do, all so he could continue to protect his ego and image that he likes to project to everyone. i gave up, i dont need someone like this in my life, i went from being a confident, upbeat woman to a bag of nerves! from the constant criticism, to the countless lies and redirection, i am just exhausted. i hope you find the answers your looking for but i found that these type of people will never admit to what they do because they face loosing the power that this type of behaviour gives them...i moved on.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

At least he admitted he does it.You got it straight from the horses mouth.You aren't crazy.Or if you are he drove you to insanity.Thats what a lot of these subtle but none the less mentally and emotionally abusive tactics do.You know something is wrong cant put your finger on it so more and more you doubt your own memory wonder if you are just "too sensitive' and blow everything out of proportion paranoid ? .So you are in a constant state of self doubt and confusion.Yep I must be the crazy one.After all look how I'm reacting to a lost pair of tweezers?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

northernlights said:


> What the heck do I do now??


You decide if you want to continue living with a person who "admits" to gaslighting.

Interesting. Most emotionallly abusive people don't admit it & many don't even realize they are emotionally abusive.

I was emotionally abused & got out. So based on my personal experience, I wouldn't put up with it anymore & leave.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

Gas lighting is one of the hardest things to handle. I grew up with it from my mother and then married someone that did it. I left because if people are not willing to be honest then problems can't be resolved. There's no point in fighting a losing battle. Hope it works out better for you


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

One time my husband told me when I said I wasnt aware of something he had been doing and the specifics for a couple years ...that yes I did know about it.I said then why do I have no recollection of you ever telling me this he said you must have forgotten.This was a significant thing that you would have to have brain damage to not remember once known.Since I already knew the "game' I said seriously why if you love me are you not shocked I don't have any recollection of this and extremely worried I have a neuroligical problem and a serious one?If its true you should consider me at risk to harm myself or someone else by accident.Why aren't you encouraging me to go have an MRI and find out what is wrong with my brain?

He just said "whatever" stop being such a smart ass.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

happysnappy said:


> Gas lighting is one of the hardest things to handle. I grew up with it from my mother and then married someone that did it. I left because if people are not willing to be honest then problems can't be resolved. There's no point in fighting a losing battle. Hope it works out better for you


My parents did this to me. I find it to be one of the worst forms of abuse because you are made to feel like you are crazy.

My best friend was married to a man like this too. She'd find odd items missing and he'd of course deny that he had anything to do with it. Conversations didn't happen, he contradicted himself etc. 

What saved her was that I recognized this behavior and pointed it out to her. She began calling him on it immediately when it happened and it was funny because when she did he'd run away. Literally. When faced with the truth he couldn't handle it. He needed the gaslighting just to cope with his own dysfunctional, broken self.

They eventually divorced because he refused to change and she got tired of being made to feel crazy.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> What saved her was that I recognized this behavior and pointed it out to her. She began calling him on it immediately when it happened and it was funny because when she did he'd run away. Literally. When faced with the truth he couldn't handle it.


LOL!! That's what my husband does.Its helped.He doesn't try to pull that as much.I think it scared him I knew exactly what he was up to and that I'm too "witty" myself to let him make me have those doubts anymore.I also started having our "discussions in writing.Oddly he doesn't like that either.Because when he tried to pull the I never said that I had it right there.He tried the "you cant take me litterally stance" and the "your reading between the lines stance" the "your throwing that up in my face stance" the "your exagerating" stance the "you took that the wrong way stance" that's "not what I meant stance"Then finally he erased every email I had sent him and he me for over a 2 year period.Now if I send him an e-mail he responds face to face.Or his responses to my e-mails are one sentence like "I understand'.LOL!!!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My friend did that too. She started discussing basic details of life via text or email that way she had 'proof' of what he said. 

Gaslighting only works if you have a willing participant. Once you're onto them it loses its power.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> My friend did that too. She started discussing basic details of life via text or email that way she had 'proof' of what he said.
> 
> Gaslighting only works if you have a willing participant. Once you're onto them it loses its power.



It also works face to face if you stand your ground.Like when my husband told me I knew something for two years but suddenly I must of forgotten about it..After I played along and said I need to go have some test run.(very expensive test) if that's true ....he said I was being a "smart ass" and slinkered off.Now how was I being a "smart ass" by basically agreeing with him ?Because he knew what he was saying was utterly ridiculous and a lie and I knew it was BS.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Interesting. Most emotionallly abusive people don't admit it & many don't even realize they are emotionally abusive.
> 
> I was emotionally abused & got out. So based on my personal experience, I wouldn't put up with it anymore & leave.


He doesn't fit well into any of the profiles I've run into on the internet. The gaslighting is one of reasons I wanted him to see a neurologist; he's in this strange state of being aware that he does it, but not really being able to control it? I think?

When I tell him what he's doing (now, this is new for us), he doesn't run away but he totally shuts down. Blank, unfocused stare straight ahead, no response. It's creepy. 

I don't want to leave because of the kids, and because I don't think he's *trying* to be abusive. I know it's abusive no matter what, but a teeny tiny part of me still hopes that this is fixable--if not for our sake, than for the sake of my kids' relationships with their father. If it wasn't for them, I'd be long gone. But I only have any power to get him into therapy if we're married. And the last thing I want is them learning this stuff from him.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

You also have to learn the phrase..."don't change the subject" which can be tricky because it can throw you off balance(what they said) and make start talking about it even saying "what does that have to do with anything I'm talking about"which is a question. Then they have the opening to answer and start rambling about what has nothing to do with what you were talking about.

Stop right there if its not directly related to what you wanted to discuss and say "don't change the subject" then repeat what you wanted to discuss.Sometimes that works sometime they say "I don't even want to talk about this in the first place" but at least you don't allow them to lead you to fall down a bizarre maze of rabbit holes walking away utterly confused about what was just communicated trying to figure out 40 different accusations and deflections/exaggerations and lies etc..not even remembering what you had originally wanted to communicate..while they move on to stonewalling ...


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## AWorkInProgress (Dec 6, 2012)

Gaslighting was one of my ex husband's most used tactics to hide the lies he told me. He would often reply with "I didn't say that" or "you heard me wrong".... He had a way of using amiguous statements that would give him wiggle room. 

Eventually I had to write things down at the time he told me. So when I had to refer back to something he had said, I would not have to rely on my memory. It was scary to see all of that crazymaking in black and white... Opened my eyes to the point that I gave him the ultimatum to get help for his lying or I could no longer be married to him (as the loss of trust was excruciatingly painful). Unfortunately, he chose not to do anything and the lying/gaslighting never stopped...


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

AWorkInProgress said:


> Gaslighting was one of my ex husband's most used tactics to hide the lies he told me. He would often reply with "I didn't say that" or "you heard me wrong".... He had a way of using amiguous statements that would give him wiggle room.
> 
> Eventually I had to write things down at the time he told me. So when I had to refer back to something he had said, I would not have to rely on my memory. It was scary to see all of that crazy making in black and white... Opened my eyes to the point that I gave him the ultimatum to get help for his lying or I could no longer be married to him (as the loss of trust was excruciatingly painful). Unfortunately, he chose not to do anything and the lying/gaslighting never stopped...


If you really want to be a smart ass buy a newspaper and take a close up picture of what you wrote down he said next to the news paper.Because another tactic is referring to something they said last week..to "that was years ago your not over that yet"?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Recording conversations is what gave me confidence that I was not crazy.

Now that I am out of my marriage, I cringe to think of the outright lies and gaslighting that went on. I wonder how I put up with it so long, but I think you get slowly caught up in it and after a while you are kind of "immune" after a while.

I can only tell you, that in my case, though I was sad at first from our marriage ending, my life is infinitely better. Gaslighting for the sake of gaslighting is rare, I am sure he is doing other forms of manipulation, abuse, or control. What else is going on over there?


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## AWorkInProgress (Dec 6, 2012)

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. Just trying to maintain sanity. It gave me the courage to believe in myself so i could keep the conversation to facts. 

One of his lies was that he went to the doctor because he had blood in his urine. He originally told me he had bloodwork done and will find out the results in a week (I wrote that information down). Then a couple days after that he tells me that the urinalysis showed no issues. Then a month later (after not receiving any insurance information for the doctor visit), I confront him and he confesses that it was all a lie.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

AWorkInProgress said:


> One of his lies was that he went to the doctor because he had blood in his urine. He originally told me he had bloodwork done and will find out the results in a week (I wrote that information down). Then a couple days after that he tells me that the urinalysis showed no issues. Then a month later (after not receiving any insurance information for the doctor visit), I confront him and he confesses that it was all a lie.


My friends husband did this EXACT SAME THING!!

He went so far as to say he was going into the hospital for surgery. LOL He almost had her convinced but I wasn't buying it. The facts just didn't add up so she did some digging and sure enough he was lying about it.


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## AWorkInProgress (Dec 6, 2012)

I think COguy is right, in that, gaslighting for the sake of gaslighting is rare. In my case, it was just a common method used for my ex husband's little lies, so that I wouldn't be able to question some of the big lies. It took me 14 years to figure this "game" out.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Did ya'lls ever wage a critisim at you that was the polar opposite of another critisism?Example my husband has often critisized how loud I watch t.v and listen to music and even talk.He says "you must be deaf"..and seriously I think you may have a hearing problem.He has said this many 100's of times and unfortunately for him in front of others.Recently I was complaining about certain irritating grating on my nerves noise.He was perturbed that I was disturbed (hey that rhymes!LOL) but get this..he said "you must just be very sensitive to sound".

I said REALLY is that what the problem is? Im curious though I thought I was "deaf " or "hard of hearing" ?Tell me please how can I be BOTH?...

His eyes I swear went crossed and he was stumped.Then he "ran away " saying "just forget it never mind!


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

COguy said:


> Gaslighting for the sake of gaslighting is rare, I am sure he is doing other forms of manipulation, abuse, or control. What else is going on over there?


Mostly, he just totally ignores my needs. I can ask him for something specific, and he'll say sure, but then not do it (passive-aggressive? gaslighting again?). Things got to a really bad place last year when our then 3 year old STILL wasn't sleeping through the night (and throwing 10-20 tantrums per day on top of that). I have always had night duty because I'm a (mostly) SAHM (another point of contention though--H is self-employed but won't use the tremendous flexibility his schedule allows to give me time to work. I've always had to arrange child care, and with the little one being so difficult, it's been hard). Anyway, it got to the point last summer where I thought I was going to die. The kind of sleep deprivation I'd gone through is outlawed by international treaty, you know? And I begged and begged him to let me sleep, and he'd say sure... but he wouldn't. One day he said, Ok, you can sleep in, then he woke me up THREE TIMES to ask about how to make pancakes?

I don't know... the lack of sleep kind of made me crack I think. I started to wonder if he was doing this on purpose... I've never admitted this, but one night I locked me and the girls in the bedroom to sleep, because I was afraid he's the kind of guy that just one days snaps and stabs everyone. I think that was the sleep deprivation/gaslighting getting to me. But, yeah. That's the kind of thing he does.

The thing is, I really don't think he's doing it to torment me on purpose. I think he just only knows how to think about himself. (It's ok to tell me if I sound like a typical abused spouse right now, making excuses and minimizing. I think I'm still a lot more turned around than I like to admit).


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Interesting. Most emotionallly abusive people don't admit it & many don't even realize they are emotionally abusive.


I might have misunderstood you here. He hasn't admitted to being emotionally abusive, just to the fact that he tells lies. Well, usually he'll get around acknowledging that it was a lie, and will say something like, "I misspoke" or "I was mistaken." I'm not sure he's actually ever admitted to intentionally lying. He usually plays it off like he got confused. Which is why he's seeing a neurologist. His memory is not great, but it's not clear yet exactly what's going on. And probably won't be for another year or 2 (basically, until the cognitive testing can be repeated a few times, and they can see if his scores are constant or declining).


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. Just trying to maintain sanity.


NO! I LIKE being a smart ass.Its part of how you maintain sanity.Chuckle!!!!I'm a master smart ass.A tripple black belt its finely tuned skill of survival developed over 2 decades.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

How about LOL!! when they deny deny then "admit "(to get you to shut up not because they are admitting any wrong doing) by saying SORRY!! "But of course "sorry isn't ever good enough for you! ""


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

My ex shoved a high chair across the kitchen, it hit the fridge just inches from our one year old and the tray flew into the next room. Just a few minutes later he stated it never happened. I imagined it. When I stuck to my version he then said he tapped it with his foot. Then even later he said he barely pushed it but in the other direction. I finally confronted him and told him to pick one. He couldn't.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

These tactics are done to make you question what you heard or saw. You are not crazy. They are


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My parents stalked me (yeah they're awful). It was late so no other cars were around. We BOTH saw their car and it was easily identified because it had damage from a car accident.

I told my sister what happened and she confronted them on it. They denied it so well that she had me believing I was seeing things. 

My husband came home and looked at us like we had lost our minds. He was like um it was THEM. It took a 3rd party to convince us that yes it happened. Amazing how people can mess with your head like this.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

happysnappy said:


> My ex shoved a high chair across the kitchen, it hit the fridge just inches from our one year old and the tray flew into the next room. Just a few minutes later he stated it never happened. I imagined it. When I stuck to my version he then said he tapped it with his foot. Then even later he said he barely pushed it but in the other direction. I finally confronted him and told him to pick one. He couldn't.


(((HUGS)))

Yep..

What ???? I didn't hit you ..I was holding my arm up and you ran into my fist..


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

Lol Dallas that's totally something he would have claimed


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Yeah, my mother has said some things which she later denied having said. She's also very good at selective sight, hearing and memory.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I reminded H again this morning about making an appointment with the MC (language barrier, I can't). He said, "Yeah, I emailed yesterday. Well, no I didn't, but I thought about it. I'll email today."

Progress? He obviously still has the impulse to lie (he's been doing it for almost 40 years, I'm not expecting that he's capable of stopping on a dime), but he at least instantly corrected himself. Dare I start getting hopeful?


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

That's more progress than I ever saw from either mother or ex so yes, be hopeful!!!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

northernlights said:


> I reminded H again this morning about making an appointment with the MC (language barrier, I can't). He said, "Yeah, I emailed yesterday. Well, no I didn't, but I thought about it. I'll email today."
> 
> Progress? He obviously still has the impulse to lie (he's been doing it for almost 40 years, I'm not expecting that he's capable of stopping on a dime), but he at least instantly corrected himself. Dare I start getting hopeful?


I hope he gets a good therapist for your sake.

In my 20s my mother agreed to go with me to the psychologist that I was regularly seeing. Just a few days before, my mother had said some hurtful things to me..... along the lines of being stupid and incapable...... so I pointed out to the psychologist that these remarks contribute to our troubled relationship.

My mother said she doesn't recall having said that. Being young and niave, I actually thought when people said that, they were looking for their memories to jogged. And considering how often my mother assumed -- and wrongly so-- that she had told me things and expected me to know them, I decided to probe further and I said to her, turning my chair so that I could look straight at her -- "then let's sit and discuss further so that you can remember what you said...."

My mother then said to the psychologist something along the lines, this is why we have bad relationship and so on as if my behaviour at that moment was unjustified.

I spoke to the psychologist later of about the incident. He acted as if my mother was behaving in good faith instead of pointing that this what people do when they know that they have done wrong.

It took me another decade of my life for me to know and accept that even those with an official relationship to you ie, parent, spouse........ can take positions that are clearly against you and not have any regrets for doing so.

NL, I hope your psychologist can help your and your spouse to dig deeper instead of just taking your money.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

If the therapist and my husband gang up on me, I'll probably give up. Another issue I have with my husband is his willingness to gang up on me with other people. If he does it again, when we're supposed to be working together to fix things, I don't think I'll be able to move on.

Ok, here's a question for anyone that knows anything about psychology: as part of his cognitive testing, they somehow tested his honesty. He scored very, very high. I asked the doctor about why he tested so high, and how they score it (is it self-reported honesty?), and she didn't give me a clear answer, just repeated that it's valid and he's very honest. I was stunned, though. Was that just a measure of how honest he was answering the questions in that test (like, questions about his academic background), or is that supposed to measure honesty in general? How do I reconcile the idea that he lies to me, but scores high in honesty on this test? I'm very confused.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

northernlights said:


> If the therapist and my husband gang up on me, I'll probably give up. Another issue I have with my husband is his willingness to gang up on me with other people. If he does it again, when we're supposed to be working together to fix things, I don't think I'll be able to move on.
> 
> Ok, here's a question for anyone that knows anything about psychology: as part of his cognitive testing, they somehow tested his honesty. He scored very, very high. I asked the doctor about why he tested so high, and how they score it (is it self-reported honesty?), and she didn't give me a clear answer, just repeated that it's valid and he's very honest. I was stunned, though. Was that just a measure of how honest he was answering the questions in that test (like, questions about his academic background), or is that supposed to measure honesty in general? How do I reconcile the idea that he lies to me, but scores high in honesty on this test? I'm very confused.



What's the name of this test? You've got me curious as well. And then of course, how does it define honesty?

One thing (of many) that made my exH and mother unnerve was their ability to constantly practice selective sight, hearing and memory. That's lying as well.

the other thing is that I used to say "well, at least he's being honest" and of course believe that half honesty was a virtue. but now I feel that a lot of information is put out there specificaly to lead you astray.

Two examples: When my fiance was conducting his EA, he felt it was a virtue to alert me to the fact that he was seeing someone with "Do you mind if I see other women but just as friends?" Ok, so he's being honest that he's seeing another woman, but it's not the whole story and obviously meant to buy time.

Example 2: That I saw on another message board. A woman wrote in, saying that after 6 months of dating a guy she was really into, he tells her he wants to restart a relationship with the son of his ex gf (a two year non cohabitational relationship).

I thought it was interesting that several female posters applauded the guy "for being honest" and that the woman shouldn't be concerned about that desire.

I was the only female poster who said that I wouldn't trust that arrangement. He may be using it as a way to maintain a relationship with the mother. And my opinion was built on the fact that he was not the father, neither by birth or adoption; never a custodial adult regularly acting as a parent and that a 2 year dating relationship (in which he would have only met the boy over the course of 18 months if she was a good mother) was in my view, not long enough for someone to want to be a father figure in a boy's life whose only connection is that he one time dated his mother.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I don't know the name of the test. It was a cognitive function/dementia screening test, and it used a mix of 5 or 6 tests. Some of them were translations of American tests, some are European. I can't find the results, H must have moved them. I can ask the neurologist when we see him next month, or maybe the MC if we get there first. It just struck me as so odd that she said he was unusually honest. I had thought his lying was somewhere on the impulsive/compulsive spectrum. The thought that he's fully in control of it is kind of chilling. I really need to believe that it's a coping mechanism rooted in a difficult childhood, you know? Not a conscious choice.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Also, on a different note, we're still sleeping together. Sometimes I feel resentful afterwards, since he's still not making an effort towards fixing the marriage, but I'm the HD spouse, and I just can't not have sex... do you think it's a net positive? Even if I feel resentful afterwards? Resentful sex is still better than no sex, isn't it?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

There are many crappy psychologists and counselors out there. Some still use ink-blot tests. Some advise those in an affair to mind their own business and just start trusting.

If you catch him in lies he's not an honest person, if a test says otherwise then it's a stupid test.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

COguy said:


> If you catch him in lies he's not an honest person, if a test says otherwise then it's a stupid test.


Yeah, I agree there. I just started to wonder if he was in total control of the lying, and able to be totally honest if he wants to. I've thought of his lying as more impulsive/immature than manipulative. But yeah, probably just a bad test. I'm going to stick with the immature over manipulative theory, because it's easier to forgive.


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## Enchanted (Jan 2, 2013)

northernlights said:


> My H never filled out the his needs/her needs questionnaires or read Divorce Busters of 7 Principles, even though I've asked him too. I was going to keep pushing, but I'm wondering if we need to address our other issues with a MC first?
> 
> Specifically, I've been reading up on gaslighting since I learned the term here a few days ago. I'd never seen it before, and I was shocked that there's a word for what I've been experiencing for so long. H has consistently, for 12 years, said something and then denied saying it. Pretty much every time I'd tried to have a conversation about our relationship in the past 12 years, he's said something utterly insane or offensive within the first few minutes. Then, he'll immediately deny saying it. The discussion would devolve into an argument over who had said what. Every time. Only recently (thanks to the people at TAM), have I learned to just walk away when he starts it.
> 
> ...


If you are still in this relationship - GET OUT NOW.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

nothingleft said:


> i feel for you, only recently did i discover this term as well and although at first it sent me for a loop, now i go aha! i dont feel like im going crazy anymore or questioning my gut instincts........when i confronted my bf with hard evidence of his lies, he continued to spin the story or avoid giving me any reply at all and tried to redirect the conversation. when that didnt work for him as i pushed him to answer me he got angry and told me i was this horrible person and said all kinds of negative things about me and accused me of stuff i didnt do, all so he could continue to protect his ego and image that he likes to project to everyone.


OMG. those could be my words exactly. i never noticed it before either. it was such a relief just to find out that i was not going crazy and that he really was trying to make me go crazy just to cover his a$$ and not have to admit that he f*cked up. what kind of person does that kind of thing. 



nothingleft said:


> i gave up, i dont need someone like this in my life, i went from being a confident, upbeat woman to a bag of nerves! from the constant criticism, to the countless lies and redirection, i am just exhausted.


this is something i need to continue to tell myself. in fact i wrote it down on a sticky note. i have known for years that once i gave up and quit trying that he would walk away. that is exactly what happened this January. I was so exhausted. Mentally, emotionally and physically EXHAUSTED!!! and he just kept adding more and more crap on me. i wanted so badly for my marriage to work that i allowed things to happen that i dont agree with. i kept thinking that he wanted the same thing i did but made excuses for him since he had such a rotten childhood, because he has a hard time talking about emotions, because he never learned what loving someone involves, etc etc he was constantly putting me down, never had anything nice to say, always lying and hiding things from me and then saying i was making it up, that it was my fault he acts that way because i am going to blame him anyway. after i read up on gaslighting i was like WOW! it all makes sense now. mine is also passive aggressive, and has some symptoms of narcissistic behavior also. on top of being an alcoholic and now a substance abuser. 

i am lucky to get out alive.....


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

dallasapple said:


> You also have to learn the phrase..."don't change the subject" which can be tricky because it can throw you off balance(what they said) and make start talking about it even saying "what does that have to do with anything I'm talking about"which is a question. Then they have the opening to answer and start rambling about what has nothing to do with what you were talking about.
> 
> Stop right there if its not directly related to what you wanted to discuss and say "don't change the subject" then repeat what you wanted to discuss.Sometimes that works sometime they say "I don't even want to talk about this in the first place" but at least you don't allow them to lead you to fall down a bizarre maze of rabbit holes walking away utterly confused about what was just communicated trying to figure out 40 different accusations and deflections/exaggerations and lies etc..not even remembering what you had originally wanted to communicate..while they move on to stonewalling ...


Just OMG!! again. mine would do this ALL THE TIME!!! it took me years!! actually years to catch on and then i still didnt have a handle on it in the end. i was getting a little better but it worked on my every time i am sad to admit. 

it feels so good to read these things and realized that other people know how i feel and what i went thru. he had me believing it was me, it was my fault he was unhappy, it was my issues that needed to be fixed. 

whew!! what a relief. thank you all for sharing.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

is there a book somewhere on "how to gaslight your spouse"? My wife does it a little to me...and she is good enough so I can not tell if she is deliberately toying with my mind, or honestly forgetting something she said or did a few weeks earlier. I see a lot of similarities in this thread. How do they learn this stuff??


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Omg.. I am not alone... My H gaslights too. Took me seven years to figure it out. Laid the law this year, got educated, will no longer tolerate it and I'm seeing changes.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

I have found the phrase "come on, I was not born yesterday" to be very effective in shutting down the b.s.


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## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

northernlights said:


> Mostly, he just totally ignores my needs. I can ask him for something specific, and he'll say sure, but then not do it...I begged and begged him to let me sleep, and he'd say sure... but he wouldn't. One day he said, Ok, you can sleep in, then he woke me up THREE TIMES to ask about how to make pancakes?


Did you find a name for this? My husband does the EXACT same thing. We own a business (well, I guess HE does) and his schedule is also flexible. I worked hard for a master's degree and just got a part time (10 hr/wk) job. It only requires my husband to stay home w/ our daughter 9-2 two days a week. He keeps making me "cancel" work so he can get more sleep or so he can get things done. Also, when I BEG for an extra 10 minutes of sleep, my husband refuses to get up and take care of our daughter. I was "allowed" to sleep in once in the past year and he did exactly what your husband did; he brought our baby into the room and kept asking where things were. 



northernlights said:


> The thing is, I really don't think he's doing it to torment me on purpose. I think he just only knows how to think about himself. (It's ok to tell me if I sound like a typical abused spouse right now, making excuses and minimizing. I think I'm still a lot more turned around than I like to admit).


I think my husband also only knows how to think about himself. He will stop at nothing to satisfy his own personal needs. Sorry you are going through this!!!


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Wow, I had forgotten about this thread. It's certainly difficult to re-read.

Sorry you guys have gone through this too. I will say it's pretty much stopped since I recognized it and got my confidence back. Before I would believe him when he said I was confused, now I know better. So whenever he did it, I would tell him I will not tolerate lying and walk away. It really worked. Unfortunately, things aren't better between us relationship-wise. I'm trying to wait until the kids are out of the house to divorce, but I don't know if I'll make it that long. It sucks.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

i didnt recognize it until after the divorce was filed. so i believed mine all the time when he told me i was crazy, or i was overacting. his favorite was well, if she is going to accuse me of doing it anyway, i might as well. 

i tried to find out what was going on in his head, i would try to communicate and problem solve. i would ask questions and he would say i told you already, or you never listen. i think he is just messed up mentally. bad childhood, alcoholic parents, narcissistic mother, abandonment issues, commitment issues. whatever, and i didnt know all this before i married him, it came out little by little over 14 years.

my ex is also passive aggressive, narcissistic behavior, gaslighting, sociopath, etc etc....all of it basically so he can cover his a$$, hide his actions and not have to actually ADMIT he did something wrong or was f*cking up.

i honestly thought i was losing my mind. and in the past few years found myself saying to my mom, i dont even know who i am anymore or what i want. i dont understand what is going on or how to make it better.

these kind of people are truely mind damaging. and believe it or not, i still love mine. i would have stayed with him forever, but he decided he would stick his d*ck into ANOTHER one of his "Friends" and i had enough of that plus he thought it was fun to throw it in my face ever chance he got so papers filed and signed by judge march 20 2014.


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