# What does "head of household" mean to you?



## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

This is not to piss anyone off. I am really interested in hearing how anyone may feel about this. This is not a joke but a genuine question that I would like to be enlightened on


I have always believed that a man that is supposed to provide and protect his family. The man should work and not be lazy and that it should be his joy to provide. That is what makes a man feel like more of a man (supposedly).

But these days it seems like men dont want to provide. They want women that will work also and pay the bills, tend to the children and keep everything in order. They are looking for sugar mamas. I have actually heard men say how they need a woman with money.

What makes a man fit to be head of household when there is a woman who does just as much as he does? women are very capable of providing and making decisions for the family as a whole. However it seems that men only want the title of head of household because they think they should have it. Okay, it might be written in the bible that men are supposed to lead, but if you aren't able to provide for your family how are you leading? Do you feel that you are truly head of the home when your wife makes more money than you? Is that even an issue?( i believe it is) Time and time again I have asked what makes men more capable or more suited to head the household and have yet to get a straight answer that makes sense to me. The best answer my bf could come up with is that someone has to make a final decision about things. LOL yeah okay. I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions

Women own guns, shoot them, run corporations, and take care of their children too and still find time to please their men. 

So why are men thought to be better at heading the household again??


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Much of a princess attitude there?


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

lilbitoluv said:


> So why are men thought to be better at heading the household again??


They aren't any better at it, and personally, I wouldn't put up with a guy declaring himself head of the household, nor would I ask him to take on that role.

I do kind of agree with you, though, that if he truly feels he should be head of household, the onus is on him to step it up and do all those "head" things (provide, protect, make sure the household is running smoothly, etc). A "helpmate" typically doesn't have any responsibility, and should have a very good vacation and benefits package.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

To me, it should mean husband. It doesn't mean dictator. The wife make as many or more decisions but the husband has the final say. Why? On average women are lead by their emotions, which changes like the wind. So many do not think of the long term view. Just what they feel now. The female mantra of follow your heart, is what leads to the high divorce rate. The man would use logic to think of the long term benefit and consequences of different actions for the marriage/family. Of course all of this won't work if the woman insist on pursuing bad boys.

Besides all that, the main reason is power. The man makes the most money and is the more powerful. Woman with "men" that make less than them or are weaker than them don't respect their man. Usually it's some cougar with a thirsty simp. How any man can put himself in such a situation is beyond me.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> But these days it seems like men dont want to provide. They want women that will work also and pay the bills, tend to the children and keep everything in order. They are looking for sugar mamas. I have actually heard men say how they need a woman with money.


I would simply say welcome to the modern world. Smart men are desiring of women that are actual partners. 

And most importantly, real adult women with pride for themselves have realized that they want to be partners to their husbands too, not child-like dependents who require them to pay for everything and make all the decisions. Responsible women also want to ensure that they can take care of themselves and their kids in the event that a man is not around....which is a reality of modern life.

In the old days, women that couldn't take care of themselves ended up in the gutter with their offspring...and in that respect, not much has changed. Luckily, these days, women don't have to be forced into that position....they can easily make better choices.

I'm good at things...my husband is good at things. Often times, those skill sets are different. When he's good at something that I'm not so great at...I defer to him to lead on the decision...and vice versa. That's not a weakness on his part...good relationships with two contributing partners are greater than the sum of their parts.

The best leaders are the ones who know how to recruit good talent. A weak, dependent wife is a drain...not an asset. Its no wonder that men are getting wise to that fact.



> So why are men thought to be better at heading the household again??


I dunno. I think running a household is about two partners who are both making fair contributions, who are both making the choice to be together instead of being together because they can't take care of themselves on their own.



> Time and time again I have asked what makes men more capable or more suited to head the household and have yet to get a straight answer that makes sense to me.


I think its just an outdated concept. There was a time when women couldn't vote, women were considered chattel, women couldn't raise kids on their own, women couldn't have equal careers in the workplace. And its awesome that women are taking their place as the decision makers they are....they just have to own the responsibility of that freedom.

There are still people that cling to old ideas...nothing wrong with that as long as they don't lead themselves into peril.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

There's a big difference between a man that is truly lazy and a man that doesn't take it all on at once, but expects his woman to bring something of equal value to the relationship (whatever "value" translates to for him... i.e. makes money, great cook, etc). Men are allowed to be as choosy in their selection as women are choosy in terms of what would make a great man.

I think that both sexes have a responsibility to be valuable if they wish to be in a lasting relationship.

Have you (general) asked yourself, "What *do *I bring to this relationship?"

It's always easier to point out someone else's shortcomings than to admit one's own.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I believe that marriage is a partnership... 

The "Head of Household" is the team.. husband and wife.

There is no one who has the final word. That idea comes from a time when women had few rights and those she had came through her husband. That idea comes from a time when men had few rights and his rights were only those that the king/monarch decided to allow him on any one day. Men in most of the world no longer live under the subjugation of a king/monarch. Women no longer live in that society either so women are not subjugated to their husbands.

One spouse always having the final say builds resentment in the person whose word is always overridden. Take a look at The Policy of Joint Agreement 

In a healthy 'partnership' marriage where both spouse are equals, generally each spouse takes lead in the area that they are the most proficient at. Earning more income does not give one spouse more power, or more rights, over the other.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

jsmart said:


> To me, it should mean husband. It doesn't mean dictator. The wife make as many or more decisions but the husband has the final say. Why? On average women are lead by their emotions, which changes like the wind. So many do not think of the long term view. Just what they feel now. The female mantra of follow your heart, is what leads to the high divorce rate. The man would use logic to think of the long term benefit and consequences of different actions for the marriage/family. Of course all of this won't work if the woman insist on pursuing bad boys.
> 
> Besides all that, the main reason is power. The man makes the most money and is the more powerful. Woman with "men" that make less than them or are weaker than them don't respect their man. Usually it's some cougar with a thirsty simp. How any man can put himself in such a situation is beyond me.


This is so out of touch with reality. Most if not ALL the women I know are fantastic at making long term decisions for their families, no they don't let emotions decide for them. Maybe you live in a little, backwards , parochial town but in the bigger world out there your views are way out of touch.

As for the OP, in our home we are equals and run our family on a needs and equity basis. Our decisions are made for the greater good of all involved.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

The beauty of it all is that you are not yet married so you get to come to a consensus about this BEFORE as opposed to after when most likely a consensus cannot be agreed upon. My husband and I knew before we got married that I would stay home with our kids. We would both be providers of the needs of the household as provision in our eyes is not just money. I also knew I wanted a husband who could lead his family but who would also value my input. We are equals in our status as adults but I choose to accept his leadership of the family. 

You can decide what type of husband you want and what type of wife you want to be and the same for your husband. Just make sure you are compatible who you marry. Some compromise may be necessary but make sure you know what your deal breakers are and that they are clearly stated. 

Some of your prior posts hint that you and your boyfriend have different views of marriage in more than one area. You might be better off moving on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I think the head of the household is the part the points north.


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

lilbitoluv said:


> I have always believed that a man that is supposed to provide and protect his family. The man should work and not be lazy and that it should be his joy to provide. That is what makes a man feel like more of a man (supposedly).


Just out of curiosity, what, in your opinion, is a woman "supposed" to do?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
to me "head of household" is an archaic term. Probably started as the Roman paterfamilias - where the father had absolute power.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

"Head of household" is to me a meaningless, outdated, antiquated concept. I'm not sure I'd want to be with a woman who felt otherwise.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jsmart said:


> To me, it should mean husband. It doesn't mean dictator. The wife make as many or more decisions but the husband has the final say. Why? On average women are lead by their emotions, which changes like the wind. So many do not think of the long term view. Just what they feel now. The female mantra of follow your heart, is what leads to the high divorce rate. The man would use logic to think of the long term benefit and consequences of different actions for the marriage/family. Of course all of this won't work if the woman insist on pursuing bad boys.
> 
> Besides all that, the main reason is power. The man makes the most money and is the more powerful. Woman with "men" that make less than them or are weaker than them don't respect their man. Usually it's some cougar with a thirsty simp. How any man can put himself in such a situation is beyond me.


Best troll post of the week. Well played, well played.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Lil Bit o luv,
What is it you want? A more manly husband, or a husband who wants to let you be the Head? 
To answer the question in your title The term Head of household, means nothing to me. It is archaic and distorts the true partnership that marriage is intended to be. Perhaps you should desire a true partner.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

thefam said:


> My husband and I knew before we got married that I would stay home with our kids. We would both be providers of the needs of the household as provision in our eyes is not just money. I also knew I wanted a husband who could lead his family but who would also value my input. We are equals in our status as adults but I choose to accept his leadership of the family.


My wife feels much the same, and it's a role I accept, but frankly it can be a pain in the butt.

I make decisions all day long at work, and am not always too excited to come home and face yet more rounds of decision-making. I'm not smarter or prone to make better decisions than my wife, and she's fully capable of making these calls, but she often wants me to do it and like I said, it's a role I've voluntarily assumed so I don't have much room to gripe about it.

My impression, at least from anecdotal evidence, is that most men, even old guys like me, don't have patriarchal ideas about how things should be. Like me, most would be content to leave most of the decision-making to the wife because, hey, who needs the headache? If that works for the couple, more power to them, but I also sense some wives are fed up with the power shifted to them without necessarily getting their consent.

It's a great thing to talk about and clarify.


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## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

I believe a woman should take care of the family as a whole. She should make the home pleasant and peaceful. The husband should be able to provide and come home and be at ease. If the woman works she should of course help financially as well. I am not suggesting that a woman should just sit around looking pretty. A woman is at her best when the man sets the foundation for her to be successful at home. If he provides a stable, safe environment, I think a woman is able to do those things with more happiness in her heart.


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## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

thefam said:


> The beauty of it all is that you are not yet married so you get to come to a consensus about this BEFORE as opposed to after when most likely a consensus cannot be agreed upon. My husband and I knew before we got married that I would stay home with our kids. We would both be providers of the needs of the household as provision in our eyes is not just money. I also knew I wanted a husband who could lead his family but who would also value my input. We are equals in our status as adults but I choose to accept his leadership of the family.
> 
> You can decide what type of husband you want and what type of wife you want to be and the same for your husband. Just make sure you are compatible who you marry. Some compromise may be necessary but make sure you know what your deal breakers are and that they are clearly stated.
> 
> ...



Actually, we have many of the same views. The things that we don't fully agree on we talk about it and try to come to a happy medium for the both of us. No relationship is perfect but ours is actually pretty good. We both put in the effort in ways that we can see and feel. Im grateful for that.

We talk about marriage often and we both are pretty committed to growing together. I am determined to work thru the biggest kinks before we take it to the next level. Im not in a rush, but I dont want to take too much time.

Since my first post we have definitely made some adjustments and things have gotten better. I usually post here out of frustration and it may come across in the tone of my posts but its just a temporary thing. We actually have really good communication.


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## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

I am very capable of making decisions. In fact that is something I don't mind doing, although I would love to be able to hand that responsibility to my husband from time to time. I would trust him to make the best decisions if i could not chime in, but I would like him to always consider my point of view. As long as I am respected Im fine with him deciding.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

lilbitoluv said:


> I believe a woman should take care of the family as a whole. She should make the home pleasant and peaceful. The husband should be able to provide and come home and be at ease. If the woman works she should of course help financially as well. I am not suggesting that a woman should just sit around looking pretty. A woman is at her best when the man sets the foundation for her to be successful at home. If he provides a stable, safe environment, I think a woman is able to do those things with more happiness in her heart.


I don't think that you have the right to define what other women "should" do. 

This is coming from a woman with a more traditional marriage than most. 

You're getting into dangerous territory when you try to dictate what goes on in other people's marriages.

What women "should" do is whatever works for our unique situations.


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## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> Lil Bit o luv,
> What is it you want? A more manly husband, or a husband who wants to let you be the Head?
> To answer the question in your title The term Head of household, means nothing to me. It is archaic and distorts the true partnership that marriage is intended to be. Perhaps you should desire a true partner.


I need a husband that s comfortable with leading. Don't just say you're a leader, prove it. Women know a leader when we see one. A true leader doesn't say "I am the head of the household", he just is. It's obvious because it is proven by action. That's what women want. That allows us to be truly feminine and loving and nurturing as we were made to be. In my opinion at least.

However, women should be willing and able to take the lead whenever cannot for whatever reason.

I do desire a true partner and i desire to be one. That is part of why I am on this forum. I know I don't know it all but I am open to being better and being a great partner


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

To me it means an unequal partnership. DH feels the same. Neither of us want be the dictator in our family, we've always wanted to share the responsibility. We became partners, not a "man and his wife".


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

Sometimes I think women want a man to be the head of the household in the same way that the president is head of the country, with the wife playing the role of congress of course. She decides what she wants and it's his job to make it happen.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Lil bit,
Thank you for your clear and concise reply. 
Unfortunately, although I understand your desires, I have no idea about how you can go from where you are to where you want to be.
MN


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I agree with others, couples should be leaders in areas where they are stronger in. It makes little sense if one person has the final say in an area where they are weak.

I mean, there was a thread where the husband made some pretty bad financial decisions and the OP posted she was against it and he went through with it anyways. Instead of owning his mistakes, he dug in his heels and dug them further in financial trouble.

If anyone remembers, it was the thread about the vacation home about six months back.



Kinda insane when you place a general in charge of an army when he lacks tactical skills, giving him the final say with the lives of troops on the line. If his speciality is organization, then troop movement should be handled by someone with more knowledge in that area.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

A marriage with a "head of the household" doesn't have to mean that there is a dictator. 

My husband and I both weigh in on huge decisions but he makes the final choice. 
Unlike a dictator, my needs and my opinions are always taken into account. I have so much influence. 

I am the head when it comes to certain things that my husband either doesn't care about or doesn't understand. 
For example, I manage all communication with our cell phone and internet provider. I also arranged every aspect of choosing our first home since my husband had no time to do all of the research. He just gave me a budget, some must haves and the area he wanted to live in. 

When my husband wanted to use retirement money to purchase our home, I vetoed that idea and listed reasons why that choice would not be smart. My husband listened to me. A dictator wouldn't have done that.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Mrs.Submission said:


> A marriage with a "head of the household" doesn't have to mean that there is a dictator.
> 
> My husband and I both weigh in on huge decisions but he makes the final choice.
> Unlike a dictator, my needs and my opinions are always taken into account. I have so much influence.


We call that a benevolent dictator.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

Cletus said:


> We call that a benevolent dictator.


Who is "we"? Your group of friends who cannot think for themselves and need to embrace mob mentality? 

I call your pejorative name for my husband completely out of line and unnecessary. You also completely ignored the part of my post where I outlined my level of influence. I do not appreciate anyone taking unprovoked shots at my husband or our marriage, especially when they cherry pick words in order to take my points out of context. 

If a couple _agrees _that one of them will make the final decision on certain issues, there is nothing dictatorial about their marriage since the decision was _mutual_.

People love to use words when they don't understand the true meaning. Dictators do not give a crap what their slaves think or feel. Benevolence and dictatorships do not go well together.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

I really can't tell when @Cletus is joking or serious. But if a couple wants a head of household type of marriage I don't see why extreme negativity such as the word "dictator" should be used to describe it. Being a dictator is a far cry from leading a household especially when that leadership is desired by both parties. A marriage dynamic isn't bad just because you wouldn't want it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

lilbitoluv said:


> I believe a woman should take care of the family as a whole. She should make the home pleasant and peaceful. The husband should be able to provide and come home and be at ease. If the woman works she should of course help financially as well. I am not suggesting that a woman should just sit around looking pretty. A woman is at her best when the man sets the foundation for her to be successful at home. If he provides a stable, safe environment, I think a woman is able to do those things with more happiness in her heart.


If that is your idea of bliss then great but no you do not speak for women in general. To me it sounds like an awful life and one I would slowly go crazy living in.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

lilbitoluv said:


> I believe a woman should take care of the family as a whole. She should make the home pleasant and peaceful. The husband should be able to provide and come home and be at ease. If the woman works she should of course help financially as well. I am not suggesting that a woman should just sit around looking pretty. A woman is at her best when the man sets the foundation for her to be successful at home. If he provides a stable, safe environment, I think a woman is able to do those things with more happiness in her heart.


I really don't find this comment offending in any way...lilbitoluv is just speaking for herself.. possibly how she envisions a life with a future husband, if they have kids someday.. sounds she wants to do all she can, to mutually help out, care for her family and provide a happy home to a man. 

I have basically lived what you have laid out here....it's been a wonderful life.. My husband's way of being...being a man wired to Protect and Provide..I much appreciate this about him... he was one raised with more Traditional values ....when we met... we just wanted the same things.. it was never a question.. 

I can say in all honesty.. we've never had a FIGHT over feeling he wasn't doing HIS part.. or for that matter.. I wasn't doing mine.. 

I really liked @Satya 's post here 



> There's a big difference between a man that is truly lazy and a man that doesn't take it all on at once, *but expects his woman to bring something of equal value to the relationship (whatever "value" translates to for him... i.e. makes money, great cook, etc). Men are allowed to be as choosy in their selection as women are choosy in terms of what would make a great man.
> 
> I think that both sexes have a responsibility to be valuable if they wish to be in a lasting relationship.
> *
> ...


 To each of us... we define what is of value, or great worth *to us*... I think what myself and husband value is more of a simple life.. we wanted a larger family...we didn't care if we had the finest things, just never our aim.. we drive older cars for example.. . but being able to afford to live, pay every bill on time, take many memorable family vacations, home ownership..doing for our kids.. these were HUGE to us.. our happiness vision. 

The whole "Head of the Household" thing.... giving a link to a thread here yrs ago.. I never forgot..taken from a christian point of view.. I feel MANY take these scriptures out of context (shamefully they HAVE BEEN abused)...though when taken in context and one is not offended by the idea of the husband taking a loving lead..

I found this a beautiful write up personally... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relationships-spirituality/61081-head-house.html

IN our marriage.. I would say my husband IS the "Head of the household" just because he IS the one who supports us financially ... what I make is peanuts in comparison.. but really.. we feel it's an equal partnership.. my husband has always & forever supported what I bring to our union... 

Our dynamics go something like this.. he brings in over 94% of our income.. I literally handle everything In the home, taking charge to schedule & run our family of (now 7).

I seen @GTdad 's post above mentioning how he makes decisions all day at work & doesn't always want to come home to make more ...saying it can be a "pain in the butt"...saying his wife is very much capable of handing such things, that he is not an oppressive man, basically.. 

I think their marriage is similar, with the man being the main breadwinner, larger family (8 kids I think !)...my husband would say here.. he has it pretty easy... I am the head secretary, take every phone call (he never answers the phone- hates it ), write every check, handle all school /college/ tax/ financial everything, pay every bill, if any issues with anything, it's me dealing with it.. I do all the research...then I present the facts, ideas...if he has an idea.. I offer to research that too -just to save him the trouble. I feel I have more free time for this...

And with any Big purchase/ decision.. we always sit down, come up with a plan we both agree on... of course... never going ahead of the other.. 

It's only when something involves power tools, working on cars, carpentry.. chain saws... that's his domain.. he's the Handy man / the mechanic...though today I helped him do body work on our truck, grinder in hand.. I spent 2 hrs painting graphite under my car earlier.. that was fun! No not really.. got it in my hair.. even in my eye, then I wised up & put goggles on.. 

There is this word not used a whole lot when talking about marriage .. but it's called "Interdependence".. each couple will have their own dynamics that work for them.. what is most important is that .. neither is LAX where the other feels they are a "burden"..because that gets VERY OLD...and causes resentment to fester....if we feel we are carrying a heavier load.. 

We want to be a blessing to each other...that means diligently Doing the role we set out to do.. as really...we do mutually rely on each other.. for the running of our family and home.. when we do this.. then we have more time for leisure to spend on a little romance... and with the kids too!.

lilbitoluv ...You sound you have some Traditional ideals ?? or you are struggling to find what will work for you...the dynamics, the balance.. it's a lot to talk about when dating.. I highly recommend this book for new relationships to get a good feel if you are compatible.. 

Intellectual Foreplay: A Book of Questions for Lovers and Lovers-to-Be 

I feel this article is well balanced.. Take a moment...

*>>* Should You Trade Your Independence for Interdependence? |


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I really don't find this comment offending in any way...lilbitoluv is just speaking for herself.. possibly how she envisions a life with a future husband, if they have kids someday.. sounds she wants to do all she can, to mutually help out, care for her family and provide a happy home to a man.
> 
> ............................


I'm not offended that others choose to live a different life, yay them. The OP's language suggests she believes her way is the ultimate way to live, maybe she can clarify that. 

But let's keep in mind that this is the same woman that is anti BJ and very immature about it. Her love for her partner has set boundaries and potentially she has a sexually dysfunctional relationship. I would be getting those issues sorted well before the handy home maker stuff.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Holland said:


> I'm not offended that others choose to live a different life, yay them. The OP's language suggests she believes her way is the ultimate way to live, maybe she can clarify that.
> 
> But let's keep in mind that this is the same woman that is anti BJ and very immature about it. Her love for her partner has set boundaries and potentially she has a sexually dysfunctional relationship. I would be getting those issues sorted well before the handy home maker stuff.


When you say "Yah them".. it sounds patronizing to me.. even if I didn't agree , I wouldn't speak like this.. but maybe I am reading you all wrong...

I haven't read all of her posts, though I think I posted on that thread...at least she is asking questions.. 

I didn't care for Bjs either in the beginning.. but it didn't hurt us.. what can you do.. we're all learning, and growing (hopefully)... .. I wish I had a forum like this .. to set me straight , to learn a thing or 2 back then.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

Holland said:


> I'm not offended that others choose to live a different life, yay them. The OP's language suggests she believes her way is the ultimate way to live, maybe she can clarify that.
> 
> But let's keep in mind that this is the same woman that is anti BJ and very immature about it. Her love for her partner has set boundaries and potentially she has a sexually dysfunctional relationship. I would be getting those issues sorted well before the handy home maker stuff.


I'm not particularly fond of suggestions that only one type of marriage is best either. 

A woman can be a traditional homemaker without enjoying BJs...I don't understand the connection.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Yay is an Aussie expression, sort of like "all power to you" but with less enthusiasm. It is not patronising but is a little apathetic. I genuinely believe that others should be free to live as they see fit but I'm not sure the OP sees it that way.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Mrs.Submission said:


> I'm not particularly fond of suggestions that only one type of marriage is best either.
> 
> A woman can be a traditional homemaker without enjoying BJs...I don't understand the connection.


There is no real connection for anyone else's marriage. Simply pointing out that the OP potentially has much bigger issues to deal with before thinking she is living in domestic bliss all the while her BF is growing resentful of their sexual mismatch.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

Holland said:


> There is no real connection for anyone else's marriage. Simply pointing out that the OP potentially has much bigger issues to deal with before thinking she is living in domestic bliss all the while her BF is growing resentful of their sexual mismatch.


I see. Thanks for providing context. 

In my marriage, there would be no domestic bliss if there was a sexual mismatch. 

Last month, I declined sex with my husband twice in one week. That isn't normal for us so my husband brought it up as a concern. We're very serious about having a fulfilling sex life.


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## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

Holland said:


> I'm not offended that others choose to live a different life, yay them. The OP's language suggests she believes her way is the ultimate way to live, maybe she can clarify that.
> 
> But let's keep in mind that this is the same woman that is anti BJ and very immature about it. Her love for her partner has set boundaries and potentially she has a sexually dysfunctional relationship. I would be getting those issues sorted well before the handy home maker stuff.



Okay first of all I never suggested the way I see myself living is the ultimate way for everyone to live, so knock it off. Everyone should do whatever works for them. I am ONLY concerned about what works for me.

Second, I never said I was anti-bj. I said I don't particularly liked to be asked for it. That's how i felt about it. So?? You can call how i feel immature if that's how you see it but you don't know what the **** you're talking about so how about if you think I'm so immature you just don't respond to any more of my posts? Agreed? Great!

Third, damn right I have boundaries, I like boundaries. I am not someone that is willing to go all out for someone that I am NOT yet married to. I dont think any man should ever expect that. You can live your life giving your all to everyone you get with and have nothing left for yourself. I like having something for myself. The only people that I can ever see myself loving unconditionally are the children I give birth to.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks but I will respond to the posts and threads I choose to, not the ones I am told I can reply to.


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## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> When you say "Yah them".. it sounds patronizing to me.. even if I didn't agree , I wouldn't speak like this.. but maybe I am reading you all wrong...
> 
> I haven't read all of her posts, though I think I posted on that thread...at least she is asking questions..
> 
> I didn't care for Bjs either in the beginning.. but it didn't hurt us.. what can you do.. we're all learning, and growing (hopefully)... .. I wish I had a forum like this .. to set me straight , to learn a thing or 2 back then.


What I DIDN'T say was that since coming to this forum it has helped me a lot and I have opened up in different ways toward him. He recognizes the changes and he is appreciative. That is what me coming to this forum was all about. So i could see things differently from MARRIED people who have possibly gone thru what I have. The funny thing is certain people on this forum act as if EVERY woman on earth is supposed to LOVE giving bj's and all the freaky things that men imagine in their heads. It's just not true. Some women do yes, but most have to get to a place with their partner where they feel comfortable truly letting go and expressing themselves in a truly uninhibited way. 

You aren't just handed that. You have to earn it. At least that is how it is with me. Not everyone will agree but I really dgaf what everyone thinks lol


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

lilbitoluv said:


> What makes a man fit to be head of household when there is a woman who does just as much as he does?


I don't believe, there being a woman who does just as much as a man, makes a man unfit to be head of household. Biblically working for a wage is a curse, _Genesis 3:17-19_. If the wife wants to shoulder half the curse, more power to her, but I don't think that makes her any more qualified to be head than pushing a watermelon out of my a$$ makes me more qualified to bare children.



lilbitoluv said:


> Okay, it might be written in the bible that men are supposed to lead, but if you aren't able to provide for your family how are you leading?


Simple answer: You aren't.
_"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." 1 Timothy 5:8_



lilbitoluv said:


> Do you feel that you are truly head of the home when your wife makes more money than you?


Yes I do, because, more or less income does not change God's word or design.
Since you have made an in query into the bible, and what it has to say about manhood and womanhood, I think a thorough study would show that money does not in any way qualify somebody to lead. In fact, faith in riches disqualifies somebody from following.



lilbitoluv said:


> Is that even an issue?( i believe it is)





lilbitoluv said:


> So why are men thought to be better at heading the household again?


Because from creation God the creator ordained men to be the head of their household. He (God) chooses to judge the head of the household and hold it responsible for the sins of the household. This is to familiarize all of creation with the Gospel, that is, that He (God) has held Christ (Head) responsible for the sins of the church (household).


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

lilbitoluv said:


> Okay first of all I never suggested the way I see myself living is the ultimate way for everyone to live, so knock it off. Everyone should do whatever works for them. I am ONLY concerned about what works for me.


Interestingly, you used universal language of what a man and woman should do. Not what YOU and your potential husband should do. So it stands to reason that someone would interpret you to .... well mean that.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I find that those who are quick to take offense are not particularly comfortable with the choices they've made for themselves and as such constantly feel the need to defend. I for one do not feel such a need.....I could care less what kind of life others decide to lead. As for my house, there is no head of household and good luck to my husband if he decides to give that a shot. 

Strangely enough we've had no problem coming to agreements on a wide variety of issues with no so called "head of household" to make the final decision. And strangely enough between the two of us the house is clean, dinner is cooked, and laundry is done. I have no idea why anyone would need this so called head of household to make decisions instead of coming to an agreement.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I treat Mrs.CuddleBug the same as I treat myself and she is my equal.

That means she has equal say in everything we do.

Now I am the get things done, notice things type of a guy were as Mrs.CuddleBug is not. So I take the initiative and get things done. She has input and likes everything I do for us and appreciates it.

I am the Captain and she is my first mate.

On her own, Mrs.Cuddlebug doesn't notice things like I do and she doesn't have the skills or takes the initiate as much either.

Mrs.CuddleBug excels working in her office and she likes to do our income tax forms.

I am the aggressor, initiator, get things done and Captain. She is more passive, doesn't initiate as much and takes a long time to get things done, so she's my first mate.

If Mrs.CuddleBug can do certain things better than I can, she does them and I learn from her. If I can do things better than she can, I do them and she learns and assists me.

I setup our finances too. She has her own bank account and so do I, but we're joint spousal. She has her monthly share of the bills and so do I. We each have our own cars, cell phone and computers. She uses my line of credit and we have our own credit cards, joint spousal.

I set our marriage up this way, so there is no fighting about wanting to go out, who has the car, money, bills and our individual independence.

The only thing I didn't allow was her using her last name. She uses my last name. Call that tradition and old fashioned if you like.

And I also see myself as Mrs.CuddleBug's protector. Us guys are bigger and stronger to protect our ladies.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> I have always believed that a man that is supposed to provide and protect his family. The man should work and not be lazy and that it should be his joy to provide. That is what makes a man feel like more of a man.


I did too. Historically, a man would take on this roll and make it his responsibility. That was called growing up and being a man. This does make him feel like a leader and gives him a strong sense of purpose and makes him feel needed, at least it did for me. In my marriage, I was the financial provider, I did all the man stuff...household maintenance. I even helped with the cleaning, laundry, shopping, raising the kids…etc. I always made sure to discuss decisions with my wife before taking any action. I considered myself a good, solid and balanced family leader. Without realizing it, I was much like my father…responsible. I never required my wife to contribute financially, which she didn’t. I felt this was my responsibility. She was free to work as much, or rather as little, as she wanted. 

This marriage dynamic worked well for both of us...for the first 13 years. My old school thinking about rolls and responsibilities within a marriage financially devastated me when my now XWW decided to start cheating while immersed in a so-called mid-life crisis. In her mind, she could have it all because she grew up in a world of no-fault divorce where there was always a safety net in the form of alimony, child support and equal division of assets, no matter who earned them. Also, there doesn’t seem to be much shame in divorce or infidelity in today’s society, in fact, it’s glamorized. Because of the vast difference in our income, the only consequences for her were financially quite positive.

As I see it, the problem with taking on this roll in within a marriage in today’s society is that it leaves these men, or higher income earners, which are still mostly still men, extremely vulnerable financially when the unilateral decision is made by the wife or lower income earner, to leave the marriage. Most of the divorces are filed by women and the divorce laws favor women…coincidence? 

I can understand why men today want women with their own money and also want someone who is their financial equal…or better. When you get married today you are placing a bet where you have a 50% chance of losing half of everything you have worked for. I am not much of a betting man but this doesn’t sound like good odds to me. If you hold out for a mate that is your financial equal, technically, you don’t lose anything in the event of a divorce.



> "Head of household" is to me a meaningless, outdated, antiquated concept. I'm not sure I'd want to be with a woman who felt otherwise.”


I agree with this statement but if everything is equal then all decisions should be reached by consensus…right? Ya, good luck with that one. Two individuals agreeing on absolutely everything sounds remote. Here is what I am beginning to think. Marriage itself is becoming a meaningless, outdated, antiquated concept. I doubt I will ever get married again. Maybe it’s just the area I live in but cheating wives seem to be everywhere. It’s like an epidemic. I am not in a hurry to divide my hard earned assets again just because my next wife decides she wants to throw away her integrity and become a teenager. However, if I did meet a woman who had her s**t together financially/emotionally…equals, I may consider it. After what I’ve been through, low risk is the only way I’ll go. I’ve learned to look at marriage like a business partnership, not a sugar mama but rather financial equality. What do they bring to the table?

It is sad that women like my XWW, have collectively, over time, contributed to a change the dynamic of future marriages. I honestly think men are watching the world around them change and their rolls change as well. I wouldn’t be surprised to see men waiting longer to get married, if at all especially with today's carefree hook-up philosophy. They have seen what happened to their fathers, friends and marriages around them. They want equal/low risk partnerships.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

If you really want use income generation to asses dignity, what does that say about the female who chooses to accept less in compensation than what her efforts and services are worth? That is capitalism isn't it, you are compensated for less than your efforts and services. Somebody else is reaping the profits...

Isn't the lazy husband then more dignified by seeking out a partnership where he is compensated well beyond his efforts and services?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Decimated said:


> I did too. Historically, a man would take on this roll and make it his responsibility. That was called growing up and being a man. This does make him feel like a leader and gives him a strong sense of purpose and makes him feel needed, at least it did for me. In my marriage, I was the financial provider, I did all the man stuff...household maintenance. I even helped with the cleaning, laundry, shopping, raising the kids…etc. I always made sure to discuss decisions with my wife before taking any action. I considered myself a good, solid and balanced family leader. Without realizing it, I was much like my father…responsible. I never required my wife to contribute financially, which she didn’t. I felt this was my responsibility. She was free to work as much, or rather as little, as she wanted.
> 
> This marriage dynamic worked well for both of us...for the first 13 years. My old school thinking about rolls and responsibilities within a marriage financially devastated me when my now XWW decided to start cheating while immersed in* a so-called mid-life crisis*. In her mind, she could have it all because she grew up in a world of no-fault divorce where there was always a safety net in the form of alimony, child support and equal division of assets, no matter who earned them. Also, there doesn’t seem to be much shame in divorce or infidelity in today’s society, in fact, it’s glamorized. Because of the vast difference in our income, the only consequences for her were financially quite positive.
> 
> ...


Everything we experience up close & personal changes our way of thinking and worldview...yours is a very common story here.. as is from the wife's point of view where the husband stepped out, and she trusted him with her life, her care.

I can easily understand why they feel as strongly as they do, in the aftermath, we all would...we have to protect ourselves, our futures. 

With 5 sons, I too, worry that they marry a stable woman wholly devoted to them (but also they need to be JUST THAT to her -to keep the affectionate intimacy flowing)... but yet we still strongly advocate Marriage...we've brought our kids up with a strong sense that Marriage is GOOD, marriage has value & it's best for raising families... 

We just want them to be very careful, selective....to find another who is compatible with who they are -on many fronts...conflict resolving, communication, money, sex.. VITAL! 

Maybe this is not common.. but I can't say myself or husband has changed much at all since our younger yrs.. everything we wanted THEN would be the same things we would do over again.. the only area I have changed in....I lost some of my religion & any sexual hang ups I had.. (all a plus)...he's always remained the caring, loving devoted man I trusted when we were dating..

I find it sad that marriage is now seen as little more than inviting terrible risk into a man's life...I tend to feel only the more traditional men -with some sort of belief system cares anymore. 

But yeah... I sincerely HOPE it won't bite our sons.. the likely hood of a divorce, one can't deny the statistics today...most women are college educated working women though.. so chances are they will marry one of those anyway...

It does seem Mid life can throw a Bomb to some couples, many stories shared here..... I went through some things there myself.. but I never looked upon it as what "*I*" missed..but what "*WE*" missed ....everything in me wanted to TAKE MY HUSBAND for that ride, he's my best friend / my lover, my companion!....there were some scuffles along the way, true...but all in all..it's been like the greatest years we've had, alot of excitement , even new discoveries awakened in us..... Not the typical story I suppose.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

lilbitoluv said:


> What I DIDN'T say was that since coming to this forum it has helped me a lot and I have opened up in different ways toward him. He recognizes the changes and he is appreciative. That is what me coming to this forum was all about. So i could see things differently from MARRIED people who have possibly gone thru what I have. The funny thing is certain people on this forum act as if EVERY woman on earth is supposed to LOVE giving bj's and all the freaky things that men imagine in their heads. It's just not true. Some women do yes, but most have to get to a place with their partner where they feel comfortable truly letting go and expressing themselves in a truly uninhibited way.
> 
> You aren't just handed that. You have to earn it. At least that is how it is with me. Not everyone will agree but I really dgaf what everyone thinks lol


 Again.. I think it's good to ask questions.. and learn different ideas, views, ways of thinking.. then we can bounce that back to ourselves and what may work or not work...it also can open up lines of communication with your partner too.. if they are up for that (hopefully!).. 

The whole BJ thing.. I was one of those women who associated the act with porn...and having seen some videos that I felt were degrading (not the soft romantic type).. it was a turn off to me. for many years.. just NOT something I craved.. or wanted to do.. but I can see looking back.. I had a mind blockage here ...a hang up that should have NEVER BEEN [email protected]#

In our situation.. my husband NEVER asked , never pushed.. and I think to myself.. WHY ! Being the good man he was.. I think he had lots to work with - with me.. anything I ever struggled with...I'd buy a book to master it... a shame it took me till mid life to really Open the flood gates here, BJ wise.... but OMG.. If he didn't want them now.... I'd be Pizzed off ! I'd tackle him, throw him on the bed and tell him he's getting one! ... No but seriously... I need a man who wants to be sexual in all ways.. Love it! I love to please.. I did then too..just had a hang up in this particular area.. so take it from me.. 

A woman can learn & grow here ...for sure.. I know in my case, it wasn't an aversion -it was a mental block.. so there was room to overcome this.. I did a thread on this early on coming to this forum.. maybe you can look it up -called "When arousing Passion & our Mindsets Collide - Sexually Repressed to "Awakened"

If you are still reading lilbitoluv .

This was really a great book.. reading about giving Bjs in this book literally excited me.....  Passionista: The Empowered Woman's Guide to Pleasuring a Man (..I think our husband's attitudes can make or break our desire to give though.. this is part of it too.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Well, I suppose everybody as their own feelings to what head of the household is.

My husband is head of the household here, He earns all the money for us ( I look after the home).

He has the final say on everything at the end of the day here.

He looks after all finances, including sorting out all the bills. I just look after him in return:grin2:.

He wears the trousers in the house, but i would not have it anyway. I love looking after him, what he wants is what he gets, but i love him so i have no problem with it:smile2:


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