# So your SO is a lousy lay...



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Allright, time to have a frank conversation that isn't just a side-note in some other thread.

We spend a lot of time commiserating with husbands and wives who can't get their partner interested in sex, or who find that their partner prefers quality alone time to partnered fun. We blame the selfish bastard for failing in the primary duty of a spouse, or scream "porn addiction!" at the top of our lungs. 

What about when the problem is really that one of you is just not very good at sex? There's lots of ways a spouse can become "sex starved", as Michelle Weiner-Davis would say it. You're not very good at what you do, or you take so many activities off the table that sex becomes ruthlessly predictable and boring. One of you doesn't even need to be especially bad at it if both of you just cannot agree on what constitutes a mutually satisfactory sex life. 

Two people simply wanting to have sex in a monogamous relationship doesn't guarantee marital bliss. Good, Giving, and Game is the only way you're going to ensure that your spouse sees you as an engaging and desirable partner over a multi-decade relationship. If you are not, you should not be surprised when that spouse loses interest in you. 

So that's my shout-out to everyone who has been through this, or who is wondering why their partner has lost interest. Could it be that you're a big part of the problem?


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

It's a good question. The only time I got bored with things was with my exH who, trying to hide that he was gay, became very predictable and same old same old. He knew he was not performing though so his way of dealing was to just stop initiating and eventually hiding from me, going to bed super late, etc, etc so I wouldn't initiate. 

Had a conversation with a friend and she was telling me her sex life with her husband has become too predictable. First we do A, then B, then we're done type of thing. So she's been turning him down a lot and he's starting to ask why. She hasn't been honest about why, just says she's not in the mood. I told her that wasn't fair to him and not very good for her marriage. She acted like I had given her great advice but we'll see if she actually follows through.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Cletus said:


> What about when the problem is really that one of you is just not very good at sex?
> 
> Two people simply wanting to have sex in a monogamous relationship doesn't guarantee marital bliss.


This can certainly be a real problem for some couples, because good sex is a learned skill and requires effort and attention to learn. However, I think it is more likely that sexual habituation sets in by about 2 years, and sex loses that edge of excitement, the element of newness and anticipation. Sure, some couples manage to avoid this if they work at it (or a few are just very lucky), but sex becomes routine. Routine isn't enough for some people, and they don't pursue having sex with their partner, or reject them if they have something more interesting to do. Porn can be more exciting because there is infinite variety to stimulate the user - it's often better than the sex with your partner. This habituation is also one (of many) reason why so many men _and_ women cheat - they want to feel that excitement again that is so lacking with their loving, long term partner.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Your title made me laugh so hard. 😂

In my former marriage, I think we both had issues that repelled the other. 

The only complaint he brought up to me was that I didn't have orgasms.

My list is much longer.

Sitting here thinking about it, what stands out most is that I don't remember sex ever being playful and fun. 

And I'm sure that you're right - that my mental state was a big part of the problem. 

He was extremely passive, and although I'm speculating, because he didn't talk about it, his behavior came across to me like he just expected sex to happen. 

I don't recall him ever making a genuine effort, and my efforts were consistently shut down.

What I learned (that I didn't know when I got married) is that passivity breeds contempt. For me.

It's a relief not to have to deal with that type of frustration anymore.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

i do not doubt there is a lot of truth in this. I have questioned this in my case many, many times. I often wonder how much of the troubles with sex are my own making. It is easy for me to see what I think of as shortfalls of my wife, but much harder to face the issues I bring into the mix. There is also likely a huge spectrum in this area. It is not just the lover who has no idea what they are doing, it can be an extreme, but may also be somewhere in between. As someone posted above, even a lover who knows the right techniques, can become predictable and "boring".


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Married_in_michigan said:


> i do not doubt there is a lot of truth in this. I have questioned this in my case many, many times. I often wonder how much of the troubles with sex are my own making. It is easy for me to see what I think of as shortfalls of my wife, but much harder to face the issues I bring into the mix. There is also likely a huge spectrum in this area. It is not just the lover who has no idea what they are doing, it can be an extreme, but may also be somewhere in between. As someone posted above, even a lover who knows the right techniques, can become predictable and "boring".


In my case, I have a wife who is actually not bad at what she does - it's just what she does and allows is so (by my standards) incredibly limited that the feeling I notice the most when we are in bed is "frustration". I have likened it to donning a straight jacket to have sex. Don't do this. Don't touch that. Keep your mouth above my shoulders, buster. That's disgusting - who would ever do that?

Then of course there's the mental toll of asking if I am just asking for too much - that a more reasonable person would be happy with what he has, which is not a sexless marriage except perhaps by my own choosing. 

I feel like Moses when he was told that his punishment for striking that rock was to never enter the promised land. It's why I am the most strident anti-virginity advocate for engaged couples you can imagine. Maybe having sex before marriage doesn't guarantee that you never get tired of each other, but it sure as hell tells you if you are fully incompatible today.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time. 

No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means. 

It’s no ONES fault for things become routine. But if someone isn’t good... your very limited on what you can do. Some people wouldn’t mind being told or coached how to be better, but many people would be offended and upset by doing such a thing. 


Let’s talk realistically... here’s an example...I’ll watch porn and see the skill some of these women have. And let’s say hypothetically I want to improve/try something new. It’s super embarrassing and can be disastrous if I attempt something new, because no one will be good at it the first time. Many times I learn that I am not string or dexterous enough. 

What I am trying to say is there are only a few things we can improve on.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

in my case, I find that on the rare occasions my wife happens to be really horny, it gets me super horny, and then I dont last very long. Unfortunately, of all times, that is when she most wants a long hard pounding...and I cannot give it to her. I am sure that must cause some level of disappointment for her and cause her to feel that I am not as good of a lover as she would want. Other times, I am likely very predictable, and as others have stated on this post, that does not really generate much excitement. some areas that I need to improve for sure.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.
> 
> No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, but I find an interesting challenge in my marriage, that my wife does not like to communicate during sex, so she does not "coach", and so sometimes I change rhythm, position, or something, and find out later it was at the very wrong moment. I think communication is key, and even if it is to tell me something that would work better, or something I am doing that is not great....it is hard for me if she does not voice it. 

You want me to go faster/slower.....no problem, but you have to somehow tell me. I cannot read her mind.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I agree with you, but I find an interesting challenge in my marriage, that my wife does not like to communicate during sex, so she does not "coach", and so sometimes I change rhythm, position, or something, and find out later it was at the very wrong moment. I think communication is key, and even if it is to tell me something that would work better, or something I am doing that is not great....it is hard for me if she does not voice it.
> 
> You want me to go faster/slower.....no problem, but you have to somehow tell me. I cannot read her mind.


Yea that’s frustrating.

The person who is unhappy with the quality of sex should not be the one not communicating what they want. There really is no excuse for that.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

See, I disagree with this. To me, there are endless things that can be improved on. You could experiment your entire life and still not master/exhaust your sexual preferences.

It makes me sad that you're embarrassed to try something new. I would think a man would really appreciate the effort, creativity and enthusiasm.



Girl_power said:


> Let’s talk realistically... here’s an example...I’ll watch porn and see the skill some of these women have. And let’s say hypothetically I want to improve/try something new. It’s super embarrassing and can be disastrous if I attempt something new, because no one will be good at it the first time. Many times I learn that I am not string or dexterous enough.
> 
> *What I am trying to say is there are only a few things we can improve on.*


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

I quit initiating when she stopped participating. She puts no effort into making it mutually satisfying.
Premarriage she was great, didn't know much about sex (very sheltered life) but was into it and willing to learn and was often the aggressor.

Children come along and I'm sent to the background, sex dies off. Lots of talk but never any action sex about once a month, very predictable, very little effort on her part. I do everything I can think of to keep it fun and interesting she just wants to get it over with. Kids get a little older we have a major crisis in the marriage (not related to sex) that lands us in marriage counseling. She finally seems to get the message that my love language is sex and it is important. She puts in a good effort to make it better but it was not permanent. She never says no anymore but often gives starfish sex. I start feeling like I am sexually assaulting her as she lays there looking at the ceiling or with her eyes closed and her hands by her side. She initiates by saying this often "hey, want to have some quick fun, but you have to hurry I've got stuff to do. Oh and good luck to you my stomach is kinda bothering me". 

As a resulted I started finding other stuff to do and stopped participating in her quest to claim she tried. I'd rather go with out than do what we were doing. The problem now is that it has broken my emotional connection with her. So yes her being a lousy lover has taken a toll on the relationship.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.
> 
> No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.
> 
> ...


I get what your saying but you are putting in the effort and trying to learn / do new things. No one should fault you for not getting it right the first time. You may even try stuff your partner is not into or didn't like but at least you tried. To me it is the complete lack of interest and effort that really ruins it.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

2 years wasn't a problem. 10-12 years there was a problem but communication (speaking and listening) got us back on track. But, 30 years is a heck of a long time. Hard to think of something playful we haven't tried. And then there is health, things just don't work the way they used to. And there are only so many work arounds. 20 more years? no way it's going to be interesting much longer.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

But @Cletus being a bad lover is my goto move. The main way to improve the quality of sex is by lowering expectations. My wife anticipates that I will always bomb which makes her preemptively work harder to help make sure and save the day (Yay!). 

It also boosts her self confidence because I let her know she is awesome! Meanwhile I am about as smooth as asphalt, but at least I am humble about it and willing to take instructions. 



Badsanta


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Faster faster ooh ooh baby baby.

This is what people need to grow wwaaayyyy beyond in experience and enthusiasm. 

We use the term wild monkeyporn sex, I think a lot of folks do.

And great sex takes stamina, physical strength, enthusiasm, commitment, and sound effects!!

Truthfully I belive a lot of women don't work as hard as the man in sex, the way things go in the long run. 

I'm for women's equal rights! Take me! Take me now!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

That may not be PC. Well that's ok. You know what I mean.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Married_in_michigan said:


> in my case, I find that on the rare occasions my wife happens to be really horny, it gets me super horny, and then I dont last very long. Unfortunately, of all times, that is when she most wants a long hard pounding...and I cannot give it to her. I am sure that must cause some level of disappointment for her and cause her to feel that I am not as good of a lover as she would want. Other times, I am likely very predictable, and as others have stated on this post, that does not really generate much excitement. some areas that I need to improve for sure.


And when pounding it helps to not be thinking of the roses and tender love shared but the attitude you had from the very beginning - the I'm gonna take this and you'll remember this later you're my woman and don't you forget it type thoughts.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.
> 
> No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.
> 
> ...


Bite your tongue!

I was born good at it!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Truthfully I belive a lot of women don't work as hard as the man in sex, the way things go in the long run.


That’s because in order to please a woman, a man has to have passion and connection to her. He has to be seductive and engaging. He must have foreplay skills and techniques. He must be of an adequate size - but not too big. He must have stamina and lasting ability and well as be able to perform in a wide variety of positions and skills and abilities to provide stimulation including direct clitoral stimulation if she needs. And if she is not one that can readily orgasm via PIV then he must also employ proper manual and oral skillz and techniques. And then he needs to engage in proper afterplay, cuddling and validating pillow talk. 

Conversely, a woman just needs to show up and not say no.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Conversely, a woman just needs to show up and not say no.


Were that true, I would enjoy sex with my wife a lot more.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.
> 
> No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.
> 
> ...


If one were to make a list of such things, what would be on that list?

This might be an opportunity to actually be clear on components in an encounter.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't understand this? A list of such things? What things, specifically?



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If one were to *make a list of such things*, what would be on that list?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

minimalME said:


> I don't understand this? A list of such things? What things, specifically?


Excerpt:

Let’s talk realistically... here’s an example...I’ll watch porn and see the skill some of these women have. *And let’s say hypothetically I want to improve/try something new*. It’s super embarrassing and can be disastrous if I attempt something new, because no one will be good at it the first time. 

My apologies. I could have written more clearly but had a lazy moment.

What are these skills that are trying to be learned?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Excerpt:
> 
> Let’s talk realistically... here’s an example...I’ll watch porn and see the skill some of these women have. *And let’s say hypothetically I want to improve/try something new*. It’s super embarrassing and can be disastrous if I attempt something new, because no one will be good at it the first time.
> 
> ...


Ok specially... I was looking up different ways a girl can be on top. I like being on top, it’s a nice break to relieve my partner when he is tired etc. when I’m in top, I do my “thing”. When I watch girl on top porn they have different ways of riding. For example, reverse cowgirl which in my reality sucks, and the penis comes out too frequently and I have to arch my back In a way that gives me back pain. Then I see some girls ride on top so that they are in a frog like position, feet planted on the bed, and going up and down vertically, this again is not an easy thing to do and I get tired too quickly and cramp and I’m pretty sure I look ridiculous. And then there is a girl going on top while the dude is sitting in a chair. And it’s awkward again, and I don’t have long enough legs to actually go up and down. Etc etc etc


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Very helpful, it is a help getting actual thought process from a female partner's perspective. 

Trust me, you're doing great, and the practicing itself is a fun thing.

Also, the guy most certainly doesn't think you look ridiculous trying these things, he's loving it.

He's also trying to think of ways to manipulate the furniture or add things to support these things for better mutual enjoyment or your ease, at the same time, so you do it more.

Yay you!!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I'd take a chair without arms, and cut the legs shorter so you could be on top yet your feet could stay flat on the floor, comfortable for you, great for the guy.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> He's also trying to think of ways to manipulate the furniture or add things to support these things for better mutual enjoyment or your ease, at the same time, so you do it more.


Yup. He's already got wood thinking about how he's going to pull out the welder to reinforce the ceiling so it can take the added weight of the stabilization scaffolding he'll build to make your efforts as effort free as possible.

Trust us - this is all that matters. No one expects everything to work. It's in the willingness to try (and, importantly, succeed at least once in a while) that matters.

Contrast this with the kind of wife who automatically assumes that it's bad, gross, doomed to failure, too hard, or too unimportant to bother. This is how you earn the right to expect a sexually engaged spouse.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Yup. He's already got wood thinking about how he's going to pull out the welder to reinforce the ceiling so it can take the added weight of the stabilization scaffolding he'll build to make your efforts as effort free as possible.
> 
> Trust us - this is all that matters. No one expects everything to work. It's in the willingness to try (and, importantly, succeed at least once in a while) that matters.


Bingo!

We have a winner, well said!!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Now I'm thinking if we have a chair in the house we could do without, to move it to the bedroom after modifying. 

Surely we do.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Yup. He's already got wood thinking about how he's going to pull out the welder to reinforce the ceiling so it can take the added weight of the stabilization scaffolding he'll build to make your efforts as effort free as possible.
> 
> Trust us - this is all that matters. No one expects everything to work. It's in the willingness to try (and, importantly, succeed at least once in a while) that matters.
> 
> Contrast this with the kind of wife who automatically assumes that it's bad, gross, doomed to failure, too hard, or too unimportant to bother. This is how you earn the right to expect a sexually engaged spouse.


I am a millennial. Do you think my millennial boyfriend knows how to weld?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I am a millennial. Do you think my millennial boyfriend knows how to weld?


Maybe not, but you bet your reverse cowgirl ass he'd learn if it was helpful to your sex life.

My millennial son was taught all kinds of blue collar skills by his last-official-year-of-the-boomer generation father.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

@Girl_power, so perhaps as part of your skill building, consider a yoga and/or mobility practice. To be more flexible. 😌

The men above were very gracious to offer to build, but it's also great to take responsibility for your bodily expectations.

Frog positions are hard! 😳

Yoga blocks and practice can help with that.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Maybe not, but you bet your reverse cowgirl ass he'd learn if it was helpful to your sex life.
> 
> My millennial son was taught all kinds of blue collar skills by his last-official-year-of-the-boomer generation father.


Reverse cowgirl is for the birds. That is not easy!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

minimalME said:


> Frog positions are hard! 😳


Yes, I would never in a million years expect that level of agility on my wife's part. Realistic expectations are important too.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Yes, I would never in a million years expect that level of agility on my wife's part. Realistic expectations are important too.


Professionals make it look easy. That’s another reason porn is a problem sometimes.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

minimalME said:


> @Girl_power, so perhaps as part of your skill building, consider a yoga and/or mobility practice. To be more flexible.
> 
> The men above were very gracious to offer to build, but it's also great to take responsibility for your bodily expectations.
> 
> ...


I am 34 years old, I’m athletic and In good shape. I run... often times half marathons, and workout. I do yoga occasionally. But I have scoliosis, and I’m a nurse, and I have a bad back. 

My point is, if a healthy athletic 34 year old struggles with it, people expecting their 50-60 year old wives are unrealistic.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Honestly reverse cowgirl is so stupid to me. The penis bends in the wrong direction for it. And it’s the most common cause of “broken penis”. The girl can’t at all lean forward or else the penis bends in the wrong position and can be very painful for him.
It’s so overrated.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

That's why with age comes wisdom and imagination as well as who cares attitude as well as open communication is not an issue if with W like mine.

As one skilled in the trades I can and have built many such things.

I'm in late 50s, and yes, I still spend much time thinking hmmm, how can I surprise her tonight.

And we do have some physical limitations but imagination and freedom to try and fail supports the try until succeed mentality. 

Humor is required at times. It's a perk actually.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> Honestly reverse cowgirl is so stupid to me. The penis bends in the wrong direction for it. And it’s the most common cause of “broken penis”. The girl can’t at all lean forward or else the penis bends in the wrong position and can be very painful for him.
> It’s so overrated.


I agree completely. I'd much rather see the front anyway!


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, that depends. I'm 53 and quite flexible.



Girl_power said:


> My point is, if a healthy athletic 34 year old struggles with it, *people expecting their 50-60 year old wives are unrealistic.*



That being said, there are plenty of positions to accommodate almost any scenario.

Please don't hurt your back. 🥺


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> Honestly reverse cowgirl is so stupid to me. The penis bends in the wrong direction for it. And it’s the most common cause of “broken penis”. The girl can’t at all lean forward or else the penis bends in the wrong position and can be very painful for him.
> It’s so overrated.


 My wife would agree with you; she really does not like that position. I have to admit that I love the idea of her being in reverse cowgirl position and manually stimulating herself or using a toy to get off. I really enjoy feeling her orgasm when I am inside her.

When we were younger we would get in this position then she would lay all the way down on me. Things would work out pretty good, but we have found with age that this really hurts her back; so we have not done it in years.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Honestly reverse cowgirl is so stupid to me. The penis bends in the wrong direction for it. And it’s the most common cause of “broken penis”. The girl can’t at all lean forward or else the penis bends in the wrong position and can be very painful for him.
> It’s so overrated.



I have her lie on her back laying flat on me, legs open or closed, which is similar and is easier, user friendly. The guy gets to wrap her up and move her as desired, and she can use her hands.

I'm tall, flat stomach, abs, she's short, this works well.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Married_in_michigan said:


> i do not doubt there is a lot of truth in this. I have questioned this in my case many, many times. I often wonder how much of the troubles with sex are my own making. It is easy for me to see what I think of as shortfalls of my wife, but much harder to face the issues I bring into the mix. There is also likely a huge spectrum in this area. It is not just the lover who has no idea what they are doing, it can be an extreme, but may also be somewhere in between. As someone posted above, even a lover who knows the right techniques, can become predictable and "boring".


This is so true. I can very clearly tell my wife what I would like her to do better. It is much harder to look at my own behavior and try to see what I could do to make it better for her. Of course, if she would communicate better then I wouldn't have to try and figure it out myself.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I have her lie on her back laying flat on me, legs open or closed, which is similar and is easier, user friendly. The guy gets to wrap her up and move her as desired, and she can use her hands.
> 
> I'm tall, flat stomach, abs, she's short, this works well.


This is what I was describing, but age and the widening of our bodies has taken this away. For now.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> That’s because in order to please a woman, a man has to have passion and connection to her. He has to be seductive and engaging. He must have foreplay skills and techniques. He must be of an adequate size - but not too big. He must have stamina and lasting ability and well as be able to perform in a wide variety of positions and skills and abilities to provide stimulation including direct clitoral stimulation if she needs. And if she is not one that can readily orgasm via PIV then he must also employ proper manual and oral skillz and techniques. And then he needs to engage in proper afterplay, cuddling and validating pillow talk.
> 
> Conversely, a woman just needs to show up and not say no.


Well, if that's how women act and think it's to their own detriment. You've got to give to get and any woman that just lies there and lets the man do everything probably has a crappy sex life but maybe less crappy than her poor husband.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> Honestly reverse cowgirl is so stupid to me. The penis bends in the wrong direction for it. And it’s the most common cause of “broken penis”. The girl can’t at all lean forward or else the penis bends in the wrong position and can be very painful for him.
> It’s so overrated.


Weeeell .... It has always worked for me, without the problems you mention; if anything, normal cowgirl has been more of a concern for injury, but both work with a little care. With one of my former partners, she could always get me off with reverse cowgirl even if other positions didn't work that day.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> Weeeell .... It has always worked for me, without the problems you mention; if anything, normal cowgirl has been more of a concern for injury, but both work with a little care. With one of my former partners, she could always get me off with reverse cowgirl even if other positions didn't work that day.


I am telling you, I have seen 3 broken penises come in for surgery and all of them were done from reverse cowgirl. I was there when a urologist actually yelled at a patient never to do reverse cowgirl again because it’s the most common cause of broken penises. 

Normal cowgirl is in a natural position, you can sit 90 degrees up and leave forward completely. With reverse cowgirl you have to be 90 degrees up, or laying on your back on your spouse. It’s so weird. I honestly think people who claim to love RC are lying because they have never done it.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> I honestly think people who claim to love RC are lying because they have never done it.


It used to work very well for my unathletic wife. We both liked it and no, I don't have a broken penis. Plenty of other health issues related to diabetes.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

When a **** is rock hard it does not bend this way very well! And it goes into the anterior wall of the vagina. It’s all wrong lol!

It’s like giving oral sex. The worst position for oral sex is when the guy is laying/sitting and you come in from the bottom, the opposite direction from him so your facing each other. The penis doesn’t bend that way people.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I am telling you, I have seen 3 broken penises come in for surgery and all of them were done from reverse cowgirl. I was there when a urologist actually yelled at a patient never to do reverse cowgirl again because it’s the most common cause of broken penises.


I will never forget the sounds a man was making when he showed up to the ER with a broken penis. He was sweating and screaming. No thanks. I don't really care for the position anyway but after that fateful day...um...just nope. That poor man!!!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> Normal cowgirl is in a natural position, you can sit 90 degrees up and leave forward completely. With reverse cowgirl you have to be 90 degrees up, or laying on your back on your spouse. It’s so weird. I honestly think people who claim to love RC are lying because they have never done it.


I don't doubt that there can be severe problems. I think of reverse cowgirl as being closer to "doggy" in its mechanics, so perhaps what we mean by reverse cowgirl differs.

Edited to add: Woman on top is always riskier in terms of injury, so it's not the best choice for wild, athletic sex (especially when drunk).


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

I guess I don’t get how an attractive and excitable woman could really be a lousy lay....even when my wife is kindly giving a quickie I walk away happy and don’t consider it lousy.

Plus, I sort of like to be in charge.... I’m going to keep it that way especially after hearing about broken penises... terrifying.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> It used to work very well for my unathletic wife. We both liked it and no, I don't have a broken penis. Plenty of other health issues related to diabetes.





Girl_power said:


> I am telling you, I have seen 3 broken penises come in for surgery and all of them were done from reverse cowgirl. I was there when a urologist actually yelled at a patient never to do reverse cowgirl again because it’s the most common cause of broken penises.
> 
> Normal cowgirl is in a natural position, you can sit 90 degrees up and leave forward completely. With reverse cowgirl you have to be 90 degrees up, or laying on your back on your spouse. It’s so weird. I honestly think people who claim to love RC are lying because they have never done it.


RC is one of my favorites. I've got some good bendability at my base though, long story, and the first girl I was with did cowgirl our first time and leaned way back which put tremendous pressure on both of us down there but we both made good noises.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

It's always great when a woman tells you what you **** didn't do. I give up. Power girl is the **** expurt.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> Honestly reverse cowgirl is so stupid to me. The penis bends in the wrong direction for it. And it’s the most common cause of “broken penis”. The girl can’t at all lean forward or else the penis bends in the wrong position and can be very painful for him.
> It’s so overrated.


The positions in porn are not designed to be pleasurable!

They are designed to give a good camera angle. With RC, the camera sees the front of the woman, and hardly any of the man, which is what it wants. Meanwhile, the man basically sees the back of the woman's head and shoulders, which is no fun. If she's stimulating herself, the camera can see it, but the man can't. It's a terrible position for real people.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

This has nothing to do with anything but y’alls chair posts made me think of some neighbors I had one time. The dad was a Boy Scout leader and the mom used to wear only turtlenecks and long prairie skirts. Looked like an older Chelsea Clinton. 

I locked myself out of my house one day and went to theirs for help in calling somebody. Here he comes to the door and invites me in. He’s wearing some leather get up and doesn’t even bother to cover himself. He shows me around the house (who knows why I dunno) and here she is in the bedroom wearing a leather mask and some black leather stringy thing, swinging from some chains on the ceiling. 

I swear, I pretended like I never even saw her and was like “ ohhh nice bedroom, I like the neutral color you’ve used on the wall.” 🥴 

Then I went back downstairs and ate cookies until the locksmith came.

Moral of this sordid song of the south. You never really know about people. ..

Bet they had one hell of a sex life.

I don’t think it has much to do with positions, myself. I think it’s all about _enthusiasm._ Treat his wang like it’s the prettiest wrapped gift under the tree on Christmas morning. The one you just can’t _wait_ to get to. Not like the sock with an orange stuck in the bottom that you feel obligated to say ‘thank you’ for.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

C.C. says ... said:


> I swear, I pretended like I never even saw her and was like “ ohhh nice bedroom, I like the neutral color you’ve used on the wall.”


bwahaha... LOVE IT!!

Must admit, if I meet some people that I perceive as really uptight, part of me thinks of their alter sex-selves. Just for a moment.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

What I find curious is with these topics it’s often about positions and such in terms of skill and rarely seems mentioned about the shared ‘spiritual’ connection (if we can call it that, and I don’t mean religion here)... completely being present with one another in a way that is ecstatically replenishing and erotic.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> The positions in porn are not designed to be pleasurable!
> 
> They are designed to give a good camera angle. With RC, the camera sees the front of the woman, and hardly any of the man, which is what it wants. Meanwhile, the man basically sees the back of the woman's head and shoulders, which is no fun. If she's stimulating herself, the camera can see it, but the man can't. It's a terrible position for real people.


This is such a thread jack but unless Cletus objects, I'm following it.

I love taking Mrs Conan from behind. She has a very nice derriere and I love looking at it while I'm in her and I love the shape of her hips and back. There is also a lot of playing I can do from behind her.

Reverse cowgirl is similar with her doing more work and I love it!

It is a really good position for me and a real treat when she does it with me.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I am telling you, I have seen 3 broken penises come in for surgery and all of them were done from reverse cowgirl. I was there when a urologist actually yelled at a patient never to do reverse cowgirl again because it’s the most common cause of broken penises.
> 
> Normal cowgirl is in a natural position, you can sit 90 degrees up and leave forward completely. With reverse cowgirl you have to be 90 degrees up, or laying on your back on your spouse. It’s so weird. I honestly think people who claim to love RC are lying because they have never done it.


If you straighten the guy's legs and bend the girls a little further, the position is only a little different than doggystyle, if the girl is laying her head on a pillow instead of using her arms. The guy can't get away if it starts to get uncomfortable and if the girl throws herself forward (without the knee blockers as in the picture) there is a danger, I guess. The view is nice. There were a couple times when she was on top facing me and threw herself backwards (like she was going to do a quad stretch) and I had to catch her with my legs to prevent getting bent too far as well. I also liked when she would lay back on top of me since I could use my hands all over her and manually stimulate her clitoris unlike most other sexual positions. Its like prone sex but without having to fight the mattress / blanket to touch her or support your own weight. It is a bigger challenge physically if you are trying to move from the bottom with her weight on you though.

Kind of back to the original topic of giving and receiving feedback in the bedroom, if you aren't willing to give feedback on what is being done, you shouldn't complain about not getting what you want. I got consistent feedback when doing oral, and I think I got pretty good at it. My ex wife's reaction to feedback was more along the lines of, "if you don't like me doing it" or "if I'm not good at it", "I won't do it". After a couple times where I made a suggestion or said "ow" and had the act end abruptly, I stopped asking for it or mentioning it and would generally change what we were doing if she initiated. I accepted that receiving oral was just not going to be something I was going to experience except for certain specific circumstances (if I distracted her enough to where she wasn't actually thinking about what she was doing to me it actually wasn't that bad). 



heartsbeating said:


> What I find curious is with these topics it’s often about positions and such in terms of skill and rarely seems mentioned about the shared ‘spiritual’ connection (if we can call it that, and I don’t mean religion here)... completely being present with one another in a way that is ecstatically replenishing and erotic.


Face to face intimacy / kissing is nice but is often associated with the "boring" missionary position or girl on top leaned all the way forward. Maybe edge of the bed, guy standing if he's significantly taller but probably not if he's supporting her legs. 

During my marriage my wife did ask me what I thought the difference between "making love" and "Fing" was. When I thought of "making love" I thought about the face to face intimacy (being able to look eye to eye, kiss, etc), slow and prolonged physical connection, and even expressing your feelings during the act. One of the things that I associated to it could be removed if it was a slightly different act like a massage that transitions to prone sex would't have the eye to eye intimacy, oral sex wouldn't have verbal expression (at least from one of the participants), etc. That is, sex would be just one of the things that happened during a longer experience that often continued past "the end". 

When I thought about Fing, it was more vigorous, creative, mechanical, and acrobatic with talking limited to stage direction. It can be fun, exciting, and satisfying but not necessarily fulfilling.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I’m not referring to a particular position, or necessarily ‘making love’.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I don’t think I’ve ever had this with any other person (random moments of feeling connected, yes, but nothing lasting) and honestly, I don’t know that I’m capable. It almost seems unreal to me - like magic.

Learning, on the other hand, I could go on about indefinitely. 😬



heartsbeating said:


> What I find curious is with these topics it’s often about positions and such in terms of skill and rarely seems mentioned about *the shared ‘spiritual’ connection (if we can call it that, and I don’t mean religion here)... completely being present with one another in a way that is ecstatically replenishing and erotic*.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Donny69 said:


> I guess I don’t get how an attractive and excitable woman could really be a lousy lay....even when my wife is kindly giving a quickie I walk away happy and don’t consider it lousy.


What are your "must-haves" from a sexual partner? You don't just want someone to lay there and think of England, I assume. 

Now what if those were missing, all the time? On the contrary, a quickie is part of the recipe for a good sex life, not an indicator of something missing, unless it becomes the norm.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

minimalME said:


> I don’t think I’ve ever had this with any other person (random moments of feeling connected, yes, but nothing lasting) and honestly, I don’t know that I’m capable. It almost seems unreal to me - like magic.
> 
> Learning, on the other hand, I could go on about indefinitely. 😬


I remember that feeling, that post-coital connection. I've only had it a few times in my life, and most of them predate my marriage. It is a rare and wonderful thing, easily destroyed by distraction.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So we've established the group consensus on RC. Some of the men love it, most of the women hate it. Sexual positions are only a small part of the "lousy lay" argument, but it is definitely a component for me. 

I like being Big Spoon. Sometimes I like it so much that I would like to turn it into foreplay or even (gasp!) the main event. All that easy exposure to all of those wonderful curvy body parts. Acres of skin-to-skin contact. Access to some of the most sensitive non-sexual erogenous zones too. But when sexual touching is not allowed, and all PIV requires face to face contact, that copy of the Kama Sutra becomes little more than a door stop. 

Part of my problem is that I'm not the stereotypical male (who is?), but my wife is. I want foreplay, and touching, teasing, and non-intercourse arousal. I want alternatives to simple pump-and-go. She wants 60 seconds of kissing, 20 minutes of PIV, and a good dismount. I imagine some of the ladies understand more where I am coming from. 

It's going to Baskin-Robbins and being forced to order Vanilla. Every. Time. 

Being a good lover requires a sense of adventure, a willingness to experiment within boundaries, and most of all, not being turned off or disgusted by sex in all of its variety. I'm not talking kink here - but if I'm not bothered by burying my head between your legs for 15 minutes, you should be willing to give it a game try. You might not LIKE it, and it might get relegated to the dust bin of your sexual relationship, but it shouldn't be off-limits for all of recorded history. 

So just to stay on the topic of my own thread - if you are this kind of lover, or something similar, do not be surprised when your mate discovers that he can have a better time in his head than he can on top of you.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

It is funny how this thread has devolved into a discussion of RC. I'm feeling pretty strong though that knowledge or expertise in varied positions isn't what makes a SO a great or lousy lay. I think it comes down to how much they really want to be there with you in the moment. If there is something about them that makes them squeemish, say your genitals, breath, bodily fluids, smell, etc- it just isn't _ever _going to be very good. I think when you are _really _attracted to and love someone though, you also aren't going to be there scrutinizing things either- especially when you are in the "throws of passion". I guess what I'm trying to say (hopefully not being hurtful) but if your SO is a lousy lay it likely means they just aren't fully on board with really _being _with you. I suspect there just must be something they find distasteful (barring some trauma that has occurred to them that has turned them off to sex). I suspect if your SO is a woman this could be primarily be an emotional thing too (you've been an angry grump all week and then get super nice when it's time for sex OR you're a dishonorable/lazy/callous man and she just doesn't want to give herself completely). Speaking as a man though that happens to love his wife, there is very little she could do to turn me off other than withdrawal herself sexually/permanently. My guess is if you're in that stage with your SO, that's a bad state but I suspect it starts with the woman losing her "attraction/respect" and the sad consequence to follow is bad/guarded/inhibited sex. This presumes though also that your wife isn't in some serious hormonal imbalance such as after having a baby or possibly menopause. 

I'll add that if you've lost this connection with your SO/woman, there is no sexual technique that will turn her back on. I suppose she might still have sex with you, perhaps even orgasm, perhaps even try an awkward position- but she won't be giving 100%. She'll give you her body- but her precious mind and heart will be locked away (can't reach this with with your penis, regardless of the position lol).

It's sad when a man whose lost his SO/woman in this way turns to porn and then blames her for it. That's a probably a half truth most of the time. Likely, man pissed off woman repeatedly, she withdrew, and so he (in his weakness) turns to porn to fill that need to have someone "giving their all to him". Of course nowadays all men fall into some porn use (I don't discount that) but married men should certainly dig themselves out of it and endeavor to keep their emotional connection with their SO strong.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Kindly, the above was generic blame the guy rhetoric. 

I'm not in disagreement that it can happen that way, many times yes but many times no, just no.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

@Donny69, I saw both myself and my ex-husband in what you wrote.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'm not in disagreement that it can happen that way, many times yes but many times no, just no.


When you enter a relationship with a severely sexually limited person, you don't have the opportunity to lose what you never had. When they require you to wait for marriage to even discover it, well, there should be a law.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Me personally, think it's a very bad idea to M someone you haven't had sex with, or at least almost sex with everybody getting a visual of all the naughty bits including frank discussions about sexual expectations if want to wait.

I have no problem at all with those who wait but especially in today's times it's a good idea to get these conversations and experimentation behind you before M.

Just my opinion.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> Ok specially... I was looking up different ways a girl can be on top. I like being on top, it’s a nice break to relieve my partner when he is tired etc. when I’m in top, I do my “thing”. When I watch girl on top porn they have different ways of riding. For example, reverse cowgirl which in my reality sucks, and the penis comes out too frequently and I have to arch my back In a way that gives me back pain. Then I see some girls ride on top so that they are in a frog like position, feet planted on the bed, and going up and down vertically, this again is not an easy thing to do and I get tired too quickly and cramp and I’m pretty sure I look ridiculous. And then there is a girl going on top while the dude is sitting in a chair. And it’s awkward again, and I don’t have long enough legs to actually go up and down. Etc etc etc


There was once a wife here on TAM that shared her favorite "on top" position. In her case it involved her husband sitting on a char almost the hight of a bar stool with a comfortable back. When she got on top her feet were off the ground. She liked this specifically because she claimed she felt that the only thing holding her down to earth was her husband as her body touched nothing else. 

I imagine the mechanics of this position are all about pressure and pleasurable gyration without anything going up or down. The idea of that is enough to make me go shopping for one of those chairs right now. 

If you add to that the idea of pompoir, you will probably make the guy's head explode.









Pompoir - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> When a **** is rock hard it does not bend this way very well! And it goes into the anterior wall of the vagina. It’s all wrong lol!
> 
> It’s like giving oral sex. The worst position for oral sex is when the guy is laying/sitting and you come in from the bottom, the opposite direction from him so your facing each other. The penis doesn’t bend that way people.


This RC is the only position I truly am scared of and don't like at all for that very reason. It kind of feels like at any moment, my **** is going to break in half. Every time my wife gets in that position, I get very nervous but don't say anything cause I don't want to ruin it.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

For me personally, I can generally tell if we're sexually compatible by our kissing.

And that's one thing I didn't give enough weight to with my ex-husband. That and not understanding the fiull implications of his general makeup.

During post-divorce dating, it was surprising to me to come across middle aged men who absolutely could not kiss.



Cletus said:


> When you enter a relationship with a severely sexually limited person, you don't have the opportunity to lose what you never had. When they require you to wait for marriage to even discover it, well, there should be a law.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Donny69 said:


> It is funny how this thread has devolved into a discussion of RC. I'm feeling pretty strong though that knowledge or expertise in varied positions isn't what makes a SO a great or lousy lay. I think it comes down to how much they really want to be there with you in the moment. If there is something about them that makes them squeemish, say your genitals, breath, bodily fluids, smell, etc- it just isn't _ever _going to be very good. I think when you are _really _attracted to and love someone though, you also aren't going to be there scrutinizing things either- especially when you are in the "throws of passion". I guess what I'm trying to say (hopefully not being hurtful) but if your SO is a lousy lay it likely means they just aren't fully on board with really _being _with you. I suspect there just must be something they find distasteful (barring some trauma that has occurred to them that has turned them off to sex). I suspect if your SO is a woman this could be primarily be an emotional thing too (you've been an angry grump all week and then get super nice when it's time for sex OR you're a dishonorable/lazy/callous man and she just doesn't want to give herself completely). Speaking as a man though that happens to love his wife, there is very little she could do to turn me off other than withdrawal herself sexually/permanently. My guess is if you're in that stage with your SO, that's a bad state but I suspect it starts with the woman losing her "attraction/respect" and the sad consequence to follow is bad/guarded/inhibited sex. This presumes though also that your wife isn't in some serious hormonal imbalance such as after having a baby or possibly menopause.
> 
> I'll add that if you've lost this connection with your SO/woman, there is no sexual technique that will turn her back on. I suppose she might still have sex with you, perhaps even orgasm, perhaps even try an awkward position- but she won't be giving 100%. She'll give you her body- but her precious mind and heart will be locked away (can't reach this with with your penis, regardless of the position lol).
> 
> It's sad when a man whose lost his SO/woman in this way turns to porn and then blames her for it. That's a probably a half truth most of the time. Likely, man pissed off woman repeatedly, she withdrew, and so he (in his weakness) turns to porn to fill that need to have someone "giving their all to him". Of course nowadays all men fall into some porn use (I don't discount that) but married men should certainly dig themselves out of it and endeavor to keep their emotional connection with their SO strong.


Out of everything I have ever read on this site, the above post was by far the most spot on. I had to cut and paste it and send to my wife.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

Sorry if my post was "blame the guy" rhetoric. I imagine some guys marry a crazy lady that either hates them and possibly never has any intention of loving him. Obviously my post has many assumptions such as typical man, typical woman, typical marriage stuff/no history of abuse. Likewise, I'm sure some small percentage of guys marry some woman with a strange sexual aversion.. it's there, it's always there.

I think some aversions can be worked around pretty easily. My wife is a germaphobe- so she's going to likely want to change the sheets (kids roll around in our bed often) and take a shower. So, I lay beach towel down over the bed to avoid washing sheets every time. I also pursue her when I know she's on her way to or inside the shower. A guy running to porn may miss solutions within his reach... Likewise a guy worrying over what he doesn't have- may miss some of the enjoyment of what he _does _have.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's why with age comes wisdom and imagination as well as who cares attitude as well as open communication is not an issue if with W like mine.


exactly that. And you can not overestimate the role imagination plays here. Sex is a playground for adults, anything goes. Curiosity and imagination is your limit


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Kindly, the above was generic blame the guy rhetoric.
> 
> I'm not in disagreement that it can happen that way, many times yes but many times no, just no.


I like donny69 post in general - that this is not about the positions but about enthusiasm. But I also believe that some people are just not that much into sex, or just built too many restrictions around it, and then sex will be so so. It doesn't mean neccesearily they are not into you, it means they are not into sex in general. That does exist. I have friends like that, very lukewarm about sex, they simply amused by my love of kink..


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I think people define “lousy sex” differently. Personally I think variety, skill, positions and enthusiasm contribute.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> Ok specially... I was looking up different ways a girl can be on top. I like being on top, it’s a nice break to relieve my partner when he is tired etc. when I’m in top, I do my “thing”. When I watch girl on top porn they have different ways of riding. For example, reverse cowgirl which in my reality sucks, and the penis comes out too frequently and I have to arch my back In a way that gives me back pain. Then I see some girls ride on top so that they are in a frog like position, feet planted on the bed, and going up and down vertically, this again is not an easy thing to do and I get tired too quickly and cramp and I’m pretty sure I look ridiculous. And then there is a girl going on top while the dude is sitting in a chair. And it’s awkward again, and I don’t have long enough legs to actually go up and down. Etc etc etc


From my ex-wife (she was my first for many things), through several other women and my wife today who are all taller than me. Sitting in a chair hasn't been an issue, either facing towards or away from each other. When using single chairs without arm rests. With them being taller than I, they had/have the long legs and leverage to propel themselves up and down. Likewise I also often use my hands to support their buttocks, when lifting and lowering them as well.

There is a greater risk of slippage and injury with the woman having her feet flat on the bed/floor for example, plus a lot of women who are usee to Western style toilets, usually don't have the strength and practice at pulling it off well that way. So it tends to be easier for them to straddle the man, with their shins against the bed/floor etc.

I will also add that I find penis in anus sex, with the woman on top in reverse cowgirl is more difficult to do if on a bed/floor. That said I have found it has been a bit easier to do with some women, versus others. Plus penis in anus sex is far easier while sitting on a chair with them in reverse cowgirl, when they have the leg length and leverage for it. Penis length is probably a helpful factor more generally for reverse cowgirl as well.



Girl_power said:


> I am telling you, I have seen 3 broken penises come in for surgery and all of them were done from reverse cowgirl. I was there when a urologist actually yelled at a patient never to do reverse cowgirl again because it’s the most common cause of broken penises.
> 
> Normal cowgirl is in a natural position, you can sit 90 degrees up and leave forward completely. With reverse cowgirl you have to be 90 degrees up, or laying on your back on your spouse. It’s so weird. I honestly think people who claim to love RC are lying because they have never done it.


I snapped mine once, and it didn't hurt at all. Yet a lot of blood came pouring out of it and I did feel sick. At first I thought it was coming from her. Until we figured out it was coming out of my penis. While my third longest sexual relationship partner (she was a dynamo on top), who was on top of me doing reverse cowgirl back when I was 22/23.At the end of the day though I survived and it got better, the only reminder is the top of my penis has a gap in the top ridgeline.

That said I really enjoy that position amongst many that I like, because of the view. Plus the very easy access I have to a woman's rectum to put several fingers in while having sex. Plus it feels really good and is very stimulating on my penis. And even more so if I rub my shaft, through the internal skin separating her anus and vagina.

I tend to find that I like pushing my wife forward and then using one hand to spread her, so I can use a dildo, butt plug, cucumber or fingers in her anus, which can add plenty of fun to the activity.

One thing for sure at 49 and with a kaleidoscope sexual experiences to draw upon, I'm not lying about it.



Girl_power said:


> When a **** is rock hard it does not bend this way very well! And it goes into the anterior wall of the vagina. It’s all wrong lol!


In the illustration you posted, the woman could do with being further forward a smidgen, and he ought to put his legs down and have her bend down towards his legs. So like in a rear entry doggy style position, which is a good way to make it work.



Laurentium said:


> The positions in porn are not designed to be pleasurable!
> 
> They are designed to give a good camera angle. With RC, the camera sees the front of the woman, and hardly any of the man, which is what it wants. Meanwhile, the man basically sees the back of the woman's head and shoulders, which is no fun. If she's stimulating herself, the camera can see it, but the man can't. It's a terrible position for real people.


As a man who has done this a lot, you should know that you are mistaken. Since in my experience of doing this while laying on my back with my head on a pillow/cushion etc, I can see the whole of the woman's head and neck (depending upon her hair), her whole back, her posterior and her anus when I spread their buttocks apart with a hand or both hands. Plus I can also easily see my penis entering their vagina as well, when their buttocks are spread and I am not obstructing that view with my hand.

That said one can do it while sitting rather than reclining which prevents being able to see her anus or labia, yet you can still look down and see her back and posterior, plus if their are mirrors available there are more viewing options.

Reverse cowgirl was a favourite of my third longest sexual relationship partner, and it has often been popular with my wife as well where she goes through phases of wanting to do it that along with other positions.

Make no mistake, when done well. Reverse cowgirl can be fun, for lots of real people.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

minimalME said:


> During post-divorce dating, it was surprising to me to come across middle aged men who absolutely could not kiss.


I think that's a biggie.

Of which I think an inability to kiss well, is a good indicator amongst many that someone will suck at sex.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I agree that RV is way better when the man is sitting up and not completely supine. That makes a world a difference.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I think people define “lousy sex” differently. Personally I think variety, skill, positions and enthusiasm contribute.


 the most important out of these would be enthusiasm and variety. skill comes with practice. But I would also add imagination


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

badsanta said:


> If you add to that the idea of pompoir, you will probably make the guy's head explode.


My wife does that and I enjoy it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Being a good lover requires a sense of adventure, a willingness to experiment within boundaries, and most of all, not being turned off or disgusted by sex in all of its variety. I'm not talking kink here - but if I'm not bothered by burying my head between your legs for 15 minutes, you should be willing to give it a game try. You might not LIKE it, and it might get relegated to the dust bin of your sexual relationship, but it shouldn't be off-limits for all of recorded history.


Plus being good at kissing and having that some kind of wonderful connection, also goes a very long way.

Plus talent does wonders as well. Just like some people have a talent for music, drawing, sport etc, Some people win the sexual lottery, and really do have a natural talent for being good at sex.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Always Learning said:


> I quit initiating when she stopped participating. She puts no effort into making it mutually satisfying.
> Premarriage she was great, didn't know much about sex (very sheltered life) but was into it and willing to learn and was often the aggressor.
> 
> Children come along and I'm sent to the background, sex dies off. Lots of talk but never any action sex about once a month, very predictable, very little effort on her part. I do everything I can think of to keep it fun and interesting she just wants to get it over with. Kids get a little older we have a major crisis in the marriage (not related to sex) that lands us in marriage counseling. She finally seems to get the message that my love language is sex and it is important. She puts in a good effort to make it better but it was not permanent. She never says no anymore but often gives starfish sex. I start feeling like I am sexually assaulting her as she lays there looking at the ceiling or with her eyes closed and her hands by her side. She initiates by saying this often "hey, want to have some quick fun, but you have to hurry I've got stuff to do. Oh and good luck to you my stomach is kinda bothering me".
> ...


I like this not accepting starfish sex offered so that one's spouse can claim they are satisfying their responsibilities (we had sex and he finished - I did my part).


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Personal said:


> As a man who has done this a lot, you should know that you are mistaken.


I am always happy to learn!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> When a **** is rock hard it does not bend this way very well! And it goes into the anterior wall of the vagina. It’s all wrong lol!
> 
> It’s like giving oral sex. The worst position for oral sex is when the guy is laying/sitting and you come in from the bottom, the opposite direction from him so your facing each other. The penis doesn’t bend that way people.


I will say we don't do it at that angle in this picture. That does seem awkward and dangerous.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

Personal said:


> Plus being good at kissing and having that some kind of wonderful connection, also goes a very long way.
> 
> Plus talent does wonders as well. Just like some people have a talent for music, drawing, sport etc, Some people win the sexual lottery, and really do have a natural talent for being good at sex.


Having little to no nerve endings in your penis (as you apparently do) probably doesn’t hurt. Lol

still cringing over your broken penis story..


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## enculé2021 (May 24, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.
> 
> No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's even about being good. It's about a certain sexual temperament. a person possessed of a hotter sexual temperament will at least advertise their enthusiasm or proactively learn the ropes. a lukewarm partner will have to be schooled from A to Z. It's one thing for sex to become routine. It's another entirely to be married to someone who just doesn't have that internal flame. you can tell which pornstars have the flame. Incidentally, they tend to be among the more intellectual porn actresses. They create a certain ambience. They don't have to perform acrobatic feats of daring around your business for you to feel their erotic energy.


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## enculé2021 (May 24, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> Ok specially... I was looking up different ways a girl can be on top. I like being on top, it’s a nice break to relieve my partner when he is tired etc. when I’m in top, I do my “thing”. When I watch girl on top porn they have different ways of riding. For example, reverse cowgirl which in my reality sucks, and the penis comes out too frequently and I have to arch my back In a way that gives me back pain. Then I see some girls ride on top so that they are in a frog like position, feet planted on the bed, and going up and down vertically, this again is not an easy thing to do and I get tired too quickly and cramp and I’m pretty sure I look ridiculous. And then there is a girl going on top while the dude is sitting in a chair. And it’s awkward again, and I don’t have long enough legs to actually go up and down. Etc etc etc


the frog position is super hot. a huge turn on for men. feels amazing. being needlessly selfconscious or critical is the enemy of good sex. otherwise, get in to better shape and these positions won't appear as daunting. perhaps you should up your fitness level.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

@enculé2021 great forum name!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

My dad used to say that there was no bigger aphrodisiac then a partner who wanted you.

I have found that skills are less of an issue then desire to be there and willingness to make some effort. This is especially true if you have good chemistry.

As for RC, I don't mind doing it once in a while. I just prefer facing each other and I'm good with being on top. Bf seems to be ok with that too.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> @enculé2021 great forum name!


He definitely found a way past the language screener.🙄


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

enculé2021 said:


> I don't think it's even about being good. It's about a certain sexual temperament. a person possessed of a hotter sexual temperament will at least advertise their enthusiasm or proactively learn the ropes. a lukewarm partner will have to be schooled from A to Z. It's one thing for sex to become routine. It's another entirely to be married to someone who just doesn't have that internal flame. you can tell which pornstars have the flame. Incidentally, they tend to be among the more intellectual porn actresses. They create a certain ambience. They don't have to perform acrobatic feats of daring around your business for you to feel their erotic energy.


I think it’s different for men and women. Women don’t have to be all THAT skillful, but enthusiasm is important. But it’s different with men, men need skill, men being super enthusiastic is weird.


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## CN2622 (Mar 22, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> I think it’s different for men and women. Women don’t have to be all THAT skillful, but enthusiasm is important. But it’s different with men, men need skill, men being super enthusiastic is weird.


Why do you say men being enthusiastic is weird?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

CN2622 said:


> Why do you say men being enthusiastic is weird?


As in equal to some women’s enthusiasm… it’s weird.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Yeah, right there, that’s the spot. Harder! Oh daddy I like that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Yeah, right there, that’s the spot. Harder! Oh daddy I like that.


Daddy?! 😂


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Daddy?!


Mommy.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Daddy?!


Hahahaa I would never say that but I know some women do!


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## CN2622 (Mar 22, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> Yeah, right there, that’s the spot. Harder! Oh daddy I like that.





Girl_power said:


> Yeah, right there, that’s the spot. Harder! Oh daddy I like that.


oh I agree if a guy said that it would be weird.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Hahahaa I would never say that but I know some women do!


Creepy! 😂


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## CN2622 (Mar 22, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Creepy! 😂


Agreed. Who would say that?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I have found within the last year my wife likes me explicitly saying what I am going to do to her. First few times it felt weird like hmm really? She seems to like it so now I full send it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Take a lady, put her on her back and have sex with her while she is semi-quiet. Take the same lady, have sex with her, but have her moaning, and telling you how good it feels. The actions are the same, let’s say missionary, with minimal movement/thrusting.

The second sexual experience men would rate a lot better than the first.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> Take a lady, put her on her back and have sex with her while she is semi-quiet. Take the same lady, have sex with her, but have her moaning, and telling you how good it feels. The actions are the same, let’s say missionary, with minimal movement/thrusting.
> 
> The second sexual experience men would rate a lot better than the first.


I've never even seen the first. I guess it's somewhat common to be still and quiet?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> The second sexual experience men would rate a lot better than the first.


True but if it is really involuntary then that is the grail.

The words don’t do much for me but involuntary moaning or a well performed fake where I can’t tell the difference is 10/10. Actually... damn now you have me wondering if she is faking.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I've never even seen the first. I guess it's somewhat common to be still and quiet?


Some people have kids and want to have quiet sex.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> True but if it is really involuntary then that is the grail.
> 
> The words don’t do much for me but involuntary moaning or a well performed fake where I can’t tell the difference is 10/10. Actually... damn now you have me wondering if she is faking.


Who cares if she’s faxing! Enjoy it lol.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> Some people have kids and want to have quiet sex.


LoL!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> Who cares if she’s faxing! Enjoy it lol.


Haha I am.

Recently I been getting some impressive moans and I was like yeah dude you’re layin’ it down. It is a good feeling but if it is fake then it’s cheapened. I bet sex workers can make all kinds of seemingly involuntary primal noises and perhaps that isn’t as good.... Nah it would still be good hahaha.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I've been thinking on how I interpret enthusiasm... particularly from the perspective that I absolutely appreciate my man's enthusiasm.

I kind of just relate it to being part of the sexual encounter that can take different forms yet perhaps essentially aligns with sharing 'presence' and basically not being lazy. Things such as awareness of where we're both at and which is based on the type of shared 'encounter' we're having; the way he flips to different positions while we're still connected; could be some form of talking; pulling hair, fingernails digging in, biting or licking my ear if our faces are close; letting go to enjoy in the shared moment and such - I'm refraining from posting more / specifics as I don't wish to get too descriptive - yet basically, to me, enthusiasm is linked with passion, sexual energy, and attentiveness.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Personal said:


> Make no mistake, when done well. Reverse cowgirl can be fun, for lots of real people.


Admittedly, some posts about ergonomics with RC and positions of oral have me feeling a bit 

We've had no issues with RC. Or various positions with oral. Not that RC is a particularly regular feature. Anyways... moving on!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Married_in_michigan said:


> in my case, I find that on the rare occasions my wife happens to be really horny, it gets me super horny, and then I dont last very long. Unfortunately, of all times, that is when she most wants a long hard pounding...and I cannot give it to her. I am sure that must cause some level of disappointment for her and cause her to feel that I am not as good of a lover as she would want. Other times, I am likely very predictable, and as others have stated on this post, that does not really generate much excitement. some areas that I need to improve for sure.


I of course cannot speak for your wife. But if I thought my husband couldn’t control when he “finished” because he was so turned on I would be so so so so happy. I would feel so pretty and sexy.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> I think that’s it’s easy to blame your partner for not being good enough, and things becoming a routine. But I don’t by it 100% of the time.
> 
> No one is born good. And really good usually means experience, and we know what that means.
> 
> ...


Ahhh, but the fun is doing the trying in good spirits, whether the new thing is a wild success or not so much.
The fun is knowing in each case a couple happily moving on to the next bit of imaginative fun, no troubles anticipated or had.


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