# Sexless marriage - why won't they pretend?



## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

I am a newbie on this forum, so please forgive me if I am not clear, and be gentle. 

First of all, we have been married for just about 2 years. I love my husband very much. And he says that he loves me, too, and I can see by his actions that he wants this marriage to work. We very rarely fight. However, our sex life is steadily heading to the point of being free of any sort of intimacy. It has been just about 2 months from the last time, but I can clearly see the pattern. First, gaps between sex started getting longer and longer. And now, we stopped getting intimate in any other way just as well – no cuddling, kissing, flirting... We still remain good partners otherwise. I have to mention that he has some health problems and some stress at work and he is blaming his lack of desire on those factors. I do understand his problems! And I do try to be supportive, not pushy and boost up his confidence in any way I can! And I also fully realize that no one can make him want something he doesn’t want. However, I have a question: why wouldn’t he PrEtEnD just once in a while that he wants me? Really… Is that too much to ask? And I don’t mean like a multi-day sex marathon. I mean 15 minutes of your time, every other week! Is it too much to ask for? I am exhausted of waiting and hoping for something to happen on a weekend to only realize that yet another weekend has gone by without any intimacy. I am sick to my stomach from feeling like I am begging for something. I accumulated a ton of complexes (I am too fat, too thin, not pretty enough, not wearing nice cloth and stilettoes 24/7, his ex wife is much prettier…) 

I’ve been reading articles and other posts here and on other message boards about sexless marriages, and unless the reason for sex evaporating from a relationship is the relationship itself (other problems that cause relationship to shatter), I do not understand why those with lower sex drive won’t pretend something to make their partner happier. I wouldn’t even think twice about it if the situation was reversed! 

Anyway… I appreciate all feedback. Provided that I cannot discuss this issue with anyone, I feel a lot of resentment and anger towards my husband. Maybe, talking about it here will help me come over this anger…


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

What was the last time YOU initiated sex/got rejected? How many times have you tried past 2 months?

What have you done to address your concerns he has with you (if any)?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Trust me you don't want him (as my wife saud) "fake it till you make it" it is soul crushing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

I don't initiate sex anymore, because I got rejected too many times when we first got married. I realized that provided his health issues and stress, it would be better to wait for him to want it. Otherwise, he feels inadequate! I don't not-initiate sex for me. I do it for him. 

He doesn't have any concerns with me. I am thin, 12 years of his junior, I wear high heels, use make-up... I am in fact an attractive woman with a friendly attitude. 

However, you missed my question: I asked why won't they pretend to make the other party happier.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

Sbrown said:


> Trust me you don't want him (as my wife saud) "fake it till you make it" it is soul crushing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why? I don't mean faking orgasms. I mean pretend that he enjoys what he probably doesn't care too much for. It's not like I am hurting him. People work out a few times a week because it's good for them. Not neccessarily because they enjoy the process. Same here...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Probably because they just don't care enough to bother. They're apparently content with things as they are, so why make an effort? A few empty words is about all the caring they can muster.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

rubymoon said:


> Why? I don't mean faking orgasms. I mean pretend that he enjoys what he probably doesn't care too much for. It's not like I am hurting him. People work out a few times a week because it's good for them. Not neccessarily because they enjoy the process. Same here...


I wasn't talking about orgasim either..... 8 he fakes it I hope he's a better actor than my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Probably because they just don't care enough to bother. They're apparently content with things as they are, so why make an effort? A few empty words is about all the caring they can muster.


Yeah... my thoughts exactly.  Thanks.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Does his health issues prevent him from acheiving and maintaining an erection? He may have a fear about not being able to perform. Has he had his T level checked. I dont care how much you may want to fake it, but if you cant get an erection, there is no faking that. It would be like pushing a rope up a wall.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

He may not be able to perform PIV due to health problems, but I'm sure his hands and mouth still work fine. There is no excuse for no form of intimacy.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

We are past the performance issues - he has them, we both know it, I don't make any big deal out of it... doctor prescribed pills... He doesn't care to take them... he is not interested in sex - why taking pills to fix the performance?

An affair in this situation sounds like a valid, and may be the only way to save the marriage.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening rubymoon
Sadly there are a LOT of men and women in this situation. They just can't understand why their partners will not make an effort even if they are not particularly in the mood at the moment. The rejection is so painful and so frustrating.

There is another discussion here started by a low desire (LD) wife who is on the other end of this situation. Maybe you could join that discussion and each try to better understand how the other is feeling. 

Since I'm HD, I feel the same way you do, so I can't put myself in the mindset of a LD person. 

You do have my sympathy, its a miserable situation to be in. Probably worse for women because society expects men to want sex more often. (which is not true).


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

rubymoon said:


> We are past the performance issues - he has them, we both know it, I don't make any big deal out of it... doctor prescribed pills... He doesn't care to take them... he is not interested in sex - why taking pills to fix the performance?
> 
> An affair in this situation sounds like a valid, and may be the only way to save the marriage.


An affair won't save your marriage. Trust me. I cheated on my STBXW. The resentments and frustrations will continue to fester, you run a significant risk of getting caught and everything blowing up, it's just not a solution. Either fix the problem or get out. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

rubymoon said:


> An affair in this situation sounds like a valid, and may be the only way to save the marriage.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening rubymoon
I would not fault you for having an affair. It is just a short term solution. A single affair won't fix the problem, so you will want to continue them. Eventually you will get caught and things will blow up. 



rubymoon said:


> An affair in this situation sounds like a valid, and may be the only way to save the marriage.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Have you done any marriage counseling to get this out in the open? Have you asked him why he can't try to address your intimacy needs?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I think you could benefit from scheduled sex. Sex every other week is a very reasonable request. Pick a specific day and time (e.g. every other Sat night). That way the stress is off both of you. You don't have to constantly feel rejected and he doesn't feel like it's up to him to say when. Hopefully he will agree because he wants you to be happy.

The key to success is for you to accept that he may not feel what you want him to feel. Maybe at first he's just going through the motions, but that has to be okay. He's doing it because he wants you to be happy. Maybe over time he will get more into it, but you have to not disparage how he feels. You can't force someone to feel a different way. If you criticize how he feels, he'll pull away more.

Tell him that you need sex to be happy and you need him to have sex with you on a regular basis (e.g. every odd Sat night). Let him know what you want him to do (kiss, rub his hands on you, etc). Don't tell him how he should feel. Initially, approach this as if you were asking him to help you with a household core. I know that's not romantic, but give it time and things will likely change.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Because his needs are feelings are more important to him than your's. Could you passively watch someone you allegedly cared about suffer when you had the means to help them? How cruel or self-involved would you have to be before you could? 
Folks here stand aghast at the mention of "duty sex" or "fake it till you make it", but every married person has already promised to do exactly that. We took vows to behave in certain ways toward our spouse until we die. If we were only going to follow the dictates of our emotions, we wouldn't need vows or a ceremony. If my wife turns to me for affection and I push her away, I'm not keeping my promise. A marriage commitment is a promise to behave in certain ways toward your marriage partner, REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU HAPPEN TO FEEL. 
I could randomly select any woman on earth and could expect that she would do what she felt like. That's not a commitment. Would any of us have jobs if, during the interview, we said we would only do whatever we felt whenever we felt like it? Would any of us be married if the vows included disclaimers like , "if I feel like it?" "as long as she doesn't gain weight" "Unless he loses his great job", "until he gets sick", "until something better comes along". Yet, that seems to be the way lots of married folks live. 
If you are a parent, do you feed your kids when they are hungry or only when you are in a kid-feeding mood? Do you go to work only on the days you feel excited about going to work? If you deal with customers, do you give them service only if you feel good about yourself, only when they are pleasant? If we handled our duties as parents and employees the same way we handed our duties as spouses, a lot of us would be in prison or fired. The idea of marriage is not to choose a person you can treat worse than you treat all others on earth. If we had any integrity, we would treat our spouse better than we treat everyone else. That, after all, is what we promised to do. Some of us are quick to make excuses for a man who won't even give his wife a hug or a kiss? There is no excuse for him. He is a liar, a fraud, and a self-centered, emotional abuser and that's just the damned truth. He made a promise to love his wife and he isn't keeping that promise. He needs to be what he purports to be (a husband) or he needs to have the decency to leave so his position can be filled with an actual human being.


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

As has been pointed out, it's pretty hard for a man to pretend to have an erection. Ya either got one or you don't.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedManInHis40s said:


> As has been pointed out, it's pretty hard for a man to pretend to have an erection. Ya either got one or you don't.


When women are unable to have intercourse they are routinely advised to use their hands and mouth. After all a married man cannot survive without sex at least 2-3 times a week so his wife must do what is necessary to pride it.. with her having the intent of loving him and wanting to have intimacy with him of course.

There is no difference when a man cannot have an erection. He also has hands and a mouth. He can also make love to his wife in the same manner.


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> There is no difference when a man cannot have an erection. He also has hands and a mouth. He can also make love to his wife in the same manner.


True, although it should be mentioned that not all women consider that to be an acceptable substitute.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> When women are unable to have intercourse they are routinely advised to use their hands and mouth. After all a married man cannot survive without sex at least 2-3 times a week so his wife must do what is necessary to pride it.. with her having the intent of loving him and wanting to have intimacy with him of course.
> 
> There is no difference when a man cannot have an erection. He also has hands and a mouth. He can also make love to his wife in the same manner.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Sauce for the goose and all.......
The situation is completely symmetric.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> When women are unable to have intercourse they are routinely advised to use their hands and mouth. After all a married man cannot survive without sex at least 2-3 times a week so his wife must do what is necessary to pride it.. with her having the intent of loving him and wanting to have intimacy with him of course.
> 
> There is no difference when a man cannot have an erection. He also has hands and a mouth. He can also make love to his wife in the same manner.


Ooh I wished my wife would let me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedManInHis40s said:


> True, although it should be mentioned that not all women consider that to be an acceptable substitute.


But many would be more than happy to have gratifying sex in their life... . oral, manual, toys are great. 

I can think of lots of things that I could do for a man who had ED that would make him feel great. Surely a lot of sexual play without intercourse could be very intimate, loving, and satisfying. (This assumes that it's not a one-way deal most of the time.)


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> When women are unable to have intercourse they are routinely advised to use their hands and mouth. After all a married man cannot survive without sex at least 2-3 times a week so his wife must do what is necessary to pride it.. with her having the intent of loving him and wanting to have intimacy with him of course.
> 
> There is no difference when a man cannot have an erection. He also has hands and a mouth. He can also make love to his wife in the same manner.


The OP didn't complain of simply a lack of intercourse but a total absence of any display of affection. Anyone with a functioning brain is capable of showing affection if they choose to do so, so when they don't, that must also be a choice.


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## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

An affair is totally not the answer here. He may be depressed around his ability to perform. Maybe you could coach him in way that would not spawn perform anxiety? Something like I want you to give me a tongue lashing tonight.......


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> The OP didn't complain of simply a lack of intercourse but a total absence of any display of affection. Anyone with a functioning brain is capable of showing affection if they choose to do so, so when they don't, that must also be a choice.


I did not address that as I was responding to someone who only addressed ED men.

I do agree with what you say here.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

He is just not interested. Period. 

We talked about it - he is stressed. For over a year! It's not me (his words). He still finds me attractive - he is just not interested in general.

It started with 1 time a week - not enough, but I was anxiously waiting for every weekend. I can compromise. Then it became less regular... And less, and less, and less... Performance issues - not a problem! He is my husband - I was willing to accept his problems as my own. But accepting something that is against my core nature is too high of a price...

He is a great husband. He takes care of the family. We get along great. I can feel he loves me... Like a sister. Lol. 

I would be happy to substitute actual intercourse with whatever - hands, oral, toys... When we have sex once, I can then fantasize about it when I am taking care of myself. But that gets old and eventually human sexual contact becomes critical. 

So, I am just trying to figure out how to go on. I don't want to divorce him, but I start hating him for not making any effort to meet my needs. It's not like I am asking for a kidney! I just don't know what to do. But your advices help a lot. Thank you.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

He says he finds you attractive but his actions say something very different. You say he is a great husband but you describe someone who serially denies you all forms of affection. When words don't match actions, the explanation is always that someone isn't telling the truth. 
You did not sign up to be his sister or his roommate. He did not promise to be your brother. 
As you have asked for advise, I will presume to give you some. Quit accepting that which is unacceptable. As far as I know this is the only life you or he will ever have. It will be as happy or as miserable as you both make it. I'd start by calling his behavior by it's proper names "fraud, neglect, and emotional abuse". I'd quit referring to him as a "good husband" when he is not even minimally acting like even a piss poor husband. No doubt, he will not change or make serious effort to change until he has some pressing reason to do so. 
If you are receiving almost no sex and practically no affection from him, what are you getting out of the marriage that makes you reluctant to leave? You do realize that every day with this guy is 24 hours you could be showered with adored and showered with affection? Are you afraid of being alone or of change? Set reasonable, minimal standards that you are willing to tolerate and hold yourself and your partner to those standards. You were created with the inherent need to give and receive affection. You were created with reasonable sexual needs. You didn't ask for these needs and you have no switch to turn them off. Without them, you would not be a complete human and you cannot be a complete person. He has no right to turn you into something less than human. If he cannot give and receive love, he has as much business in a marriage as a goldfish has in a horse race. If he has a screw loose, he needs a shrink. If he harbors some resentment towards you, he needs to work things out with you or get lost. If he has ED or some other medical malfunction, he needs to get his butt to a physician. Nailing his wife to a cross of celibacy and loneliness isn't an option.


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

Welcome to my world ruby. My wife is just like your husband, except she has no medical issues. She's just not interested.....at all. I can't get out though, I have toooooo much to loose, monitarily, and I'm too old (55) to try to make it back. So, I'm sort of stuck. However, I do have some very satisfying hobbies, that I do to keep my mind occupied. I am a private pilot (own an airplane) we live on a private airstrip. I ride motorcycles (Goldwing) go where ever and whenever I want to go. I also love to shoot guns, and have several. We also have two great daughters (25 & 19) that enjoy, and will do my hobbies with me ANYTIME I ask. It's just going to be really lonely around the house when they're gone.
No sex the past year and a half and I'm tired of asking, just to get rejected. We've been married 33 years, never cheated, first child was 8 years after marriage. We knew we couldn't afford kis at the time.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

Unbelievable, you are 100% right. I guess I am just not there just yet - not ready to leave him. I am not afraid of being alone - I spent 10 years on my own after my first, very ugly divorce. I am self sufficient and know how to be independent. I wasn't the one eager to get married. I guess I still love him and hope that things change. I know I am not going to wait forever... This is my attempt to find my way, which may very well be a way out of this marriage. 

You've made a lot of very good points. I felt like that but couldn't put it in words right - you nailed it. 

Frankly, when I say he is a good husband, I just go by comparison with other problems marriage may bring: infidelity, violence, physical abuse, financial irresponsibility, treating kids poorly... So many to list! And I know that no marriage is perfectly-perfect. So where is that line that separates he'll from "not perfect". I am contemplating that, too...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I would rather be punched in the nose by my wife than neglected by her. We have people on this forum who have been denied sex for many years. It would be more compassionate for their spouse to just shoot them than to be forced into a loveless existence as a sexless zombie. Neglecting someone's reasonable human needs amounts to dehumanizing them (very much like Nazis did to Jews before eventually slaughtering them). Given the choice of going into the oven or being dehumanized for the next 50 years, I'd jump into the oven. If he punched you, you could call the police, show them your bruise, and society would protect you and force consequences upon him. As it stands, he can neglect you till hell freezes over and there will be no rescue for you nor any adverse consequences for him unless you rescue yourself. If he cheated on you, your friends and family would rush to your support and call him the pr&ck that he would be. His offenses are actually more insidious because he doesn't look like an obvious turd to the world and you don't look like a victim. He gets to present an image to the world that he is a loving, devoted husband and it is such an awful damned lie! For all the world knows, you aren't a victim, you aren't single, but you really aren't married. Two months is bad, but wait until you're talking about years without sex or affection. That's not living and those who subject their spouse to such an existence are far more evil than those who bludgeon their spouse to death with a baseball bat. They are far more evil than those who have affairs. Killing someone's soul is worse than any crime one might do to their boy.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Your lack of faith in the ability of the human body and brain to adapt is noted...

I have several single friends in their 50's. They don't date, they are divorced or widowed and adapt to their new situation. They are happy. 

I don't measure my self worth by how much of this or that happens intimacy wise. Some people get more, some get less. But I'll be damned if I let someone else 'crush my soul' based on one out of many things in life.

Plan your goals, define what you want to get out of the marriage and what you will put in, and go for it. Once you no longer get what you planned, bail out or accept the situation.

And, for giggles, if your "partner" tries such stunts, pay them back. In kind.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> But I'll be damned if I let someone else 'crush my soul' based on one out of many things in life.


:iagree:

Don't let anyone crush your soul, period. No one should have that kind of power over your life. 

And no one does, unless you give it to them.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

flyer said:


> Welcome to my world ruby. My wife is just like your husband, except she has no medical issues. She's just not interested.....at all. I can't get out though, I have toooooo much to loose, monitarily, and I'm too old (55) to try to make it back. So, I'm sort of stuck. However, I do have some very satisfying hobbies, that I do to keep my mind occupied. I am a private pilot (own an airplane) we live on a private airstrip. I ride motorcycles (Goldwing) go where ever and whenever I want to go. I also love to shoot guns, and have several. We also have two great daughters (25 & 19) that enjoy, and will do my hobbies with me ANYTIME I ask. It's just going to be really lonely around the house when they're gone.
> No sex the past year and a half and I'm tired of asking, just to get rejected. We've been married 33 years, never cheated, first child was 8 years after marriage. We knew we couldn't afford kis at the time.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Flyer has hit the nail right on the head. I am in a sexless marriage and have nothing in common with my wife...and now after years of rejection absolutley no sexual (or indeed any other) interest in her whatsoever. 

I mentioned this in another post and was told 'LEAVE'. The posters didn't seem to understand that simply leaving is not as easy as it sounds...not after 20 years, two teenage children, own (oaid off) house etc etc.

Flyer...I used to have a PPL but had to let it lapse due to costs etc. Good for you being able to escape into the skies!

To the OP...is stress atc at work really the reason he's gone off sex?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

rubymoon said:


> However, you missed my question: I asked why won't they pretend to make the other party happier.


each situation is very unique. But in my case, she just "forgets" about sex. Like I will talk with her on the phone 30 minutes before she walks in the door from a trip. I will tell her all the nasty things I want to do to her body. She will seem interested--on the phone. Then she shows up, and proceeds to do something else, like read a magazine after putting her stuff away. I wonder why she did not come down wearing sexy lingerie after putting her stuff from the trip away, but she simply forgot she was supposed to have sex with me.

Its like night and day. I have been dreaming up all sorts of sexy stuff to do with her when she gets back from the trip, and apparently she has been thinking up all the magazines and tv shows she was missing.

I am lucky enough that after I remind her....she will get somewhat into the mood. But I almost always have to remind her. SO, you have to be prepared to initiate too. If he turns you down for normal sex, demand he at least play with you until you are satisfied, either with his hand or a toy. Maybe if he sees how much you need it, and how much you really enjoy it, he will at least be shamed into trying to have sex with you more often.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

flyer said:


> However, I do have some very satisfying hobbies, that I do to keep my mind occupied.


I hear you. I stay busy with kids, chores... I cook every single day a fresh meal. I have a very demanding, yet satisfying job and a career. I have friends to go out with. My husband never wants to go out with ME. He is fine going out in a group, but not with just me. He says that we can talk about everything at home, get/make the same drinks, and there is really no need to leave the house. So, I go out with friends when I want to go OUT. In a sense, he delegated this duty of his to my friends. LOL. 

And I don't dispute the idea that maybe I want too much. If he doesn't want to do ABC, then what right do I have to get upset with him for that? Desire/interest cannot be commanded with any duty or vow.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

murphy5 said:


> each situation is very unique. But in my case, she just "forgets" about sex. ....


Totally!! After a long time of no sex, he starts saying things like "Oh, maybe we will do it this weekend." - I used to get my hopes up, get all anxious to only realize on Sunday night that the weekend is gone. He forgot! LOL. 

He knows very-very-very well how much I enjoy sex. And I did mention a number of times how I miss/need/want it. I try to be very gentle about it to not make him feel bad. I try not to nag as it will kill as little of the mood as there is. He promisses and then forgets. 

I no longer buy his promises. It's not gonna happen. Period.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

askari said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Flyer has hit the nail right on the head. I am in a sexless marriage and have nothing in common with my wife...and now after years of rejection absolutley no sexual (or indeed any other) interest in her whatsoever.
> 
> ...


You can still LEAVE. Get a house down the block, split up the current homes value and go start your own house.

Either that or take on a lover. "You don't want to have sex that's fine. It's not acceptable at all to me.  I will be starting to look for a new lover. If you think this means open relationship or swingers your wrong, I will leave you if you cheat on me"


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

askari said:


> The posters didn't seem to understand that simply leaving is not as easy as it sounds...


Yes. It's not like leaving is not an option, but there is way more in this marriage than just me, no matter what needs of mine are not satisfied. My son (from my first marriage) is very attached to my husband. My first husband is less than a very poor role model for my son. My now husband is a great role model, and he spends quite a bit of time with my kid - they enjoy doing manly things together, that I would never be able to do (fish, shoot, play sports). My husband gives manly advises and teaches my son to be a man. It's a priceless gift to see a good father figure for my son! I cannot give it up. 

So... I am trying to figure out how to live this life without pain. 


What is 'PPL'?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

john117 said:


> Your lack of faith in the ability of the human body and brain to adapt is noted...
> 
> I have several single friends in their 50's. They don't date, they are divorced or widowed and adapt to their new situation. They are happy.
> 
> ...


Yes, we can accept life circumstances and be happy.

I was a single bachelor, no love life for 20 years. And I was happy. I did a lot of stuff and had a blast. I was was lonely from time to time but not to the point of being miserable at all.
I figured women were too much trouble.

Then I rediscovered women and went through a series of relationships. Got married to a miserable sexless BDP gal.
Thanks God only lasted 3 years.
There was a lot of misery with her, but I still found happiness in between her tantrums.

Now I'm remarried to a high drive woman who wants it all the time and I'm happy. But I still look back with fond memories of all my past years, alone or otherwise.

Wouldn't do anything different in spite of all the highs and lows


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> Yes, we can accept life circumstances and be happy.
> 
> I was a single bachelor, no love life for 20 years. And I was happy. I did a lot of stuff and had a blast. I was was lonely from time to time but not to the point of being miserable at all.
> I figured women were too much trouble.
> ...


Your not saying that since women were "too much trouble" that you didn't conjugate over a period of 20 years? I mean you don't have to have a love life to have a sex life.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

john117 said:


> Your lack of faith in the ability of the human body and brain to adapt is noted...


I am not sure I understand what this statement implies. If it means that I should believe and wait till my body adapts to no sex, then I am sorry, but you are very-very wrong. Sexual desire is instinct-based. Just like hunger, fear, thirst, etc. We cannot undo the way nature created us. Yes, people can master enough will power to live sexless lives, but it comes with a price. Always. 

Basically, human psychology when it comes to pleasures is like a pie chart: a section for rest, a section for entertainment, a section for sex, a section for good food, a smoke for smokers, a good drink, etc... Pie pieces are of different sizes. However, when you give up on one of those basic pleasures, you have to substitute it with something else. The pie will not become smaller - it will make you substitute one pleasure with another! That's why quite often those who quit smoking gain weight at first. If I give something up from that pie, it will manifest in some form - I will either start drinking heavily, or eating non-stop, or (drum rolls) if I manage to get all of those pieces under control, I will start having nervous break downs and become a b*tch from hell. That unfilled pie piece will draw from my sanity!

It's just not all about faith and will power. Human psychology is way more complex than that. 

Sorry if I misunderstood you.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Good thing you mentioned psychology - I took a few courses in college but that was a long time ago  

What makes us different than animals is that we can control our urges, our instincts among other things. Plus we can prioritize a lot better than, say, mink. 

I don't disagree with the pie theory but it's too simplistic. Some people are very good in allowing few pleasures to themselves. Others have to be Christian Gray's to be happy. Again, priorities and resources rule, in stark comparison to the animal kingdom. 

What you likely refer to is not lower level functions aka "instincts" but our very basic operating system. Like any operating system it has parameters like priorities, tasks, resources, and schedules. Plus inputs and outputs. While the operating system is similar for everyone, outcomes differ because the inputs and parameters differ. 

They differ due to age, gender, personal choices, availability, culture, and many other factors. Some people can do it, some can't. But like any operating system, focus too much on any given task and you got lots of unhappy campers at the end.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

rubymoon said:


> I am not sure I understand what this statement implies. If it means that I should believe and wait till my body adapts to no sex, then I am sorry, but you are very-very wrong. Sexual desire is instinct-based. Just like hunger, fear, thirst, etc. We cannot undo the way nature created us. Yes, people can master enough will power to live sexless lives, but it comes with a price. Always.
> 
> Basically, human psychology when it comes to pleasures is like a pie chart: a section for rest, a section for entertainment, a section for sex, a section for good food, a smoke for smokers, a good drink, etc... Pie pieces are of different sizes. However, when you give up on one of those basic pleasures, you have to substitute it with something else. The pie will not become smaller - it will make you substitute one pleasure with another! That's why quite often those who quit smoking gain weight at first. If I give something up from that pie, it will manifest in some form - I will either start drinking heavily, or eating non-stop, or (drum rolls) if I manage to get all of those pieces under control, I will start having nervous break downs and become a b*tch from hell. That unfilled pie piece will draw from my sanity!
> 
> ...


Nope that sounds very simple.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Nope that sounds very simple.



Most human behavior is fairly simple...


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

john117 said:


> What you likely refer to is not lower level functions aka "instincts" but our very basic operating system. Like any operating system it has parameters like priorities, tasks, resources, and schedules. Plus inputs and outputs. While the operating system is similar for everyone, outcomes differ because the inputs and parameters differ.
> 
> They differ due to age, gender, personal choices, availability, culture, and many other factors. Some people can do it, some can't. But like any operating system, focus too much on any given task and you got lots of unhappy campers at the end.


Good thing you mentioned operating systems as I am an IT professional. However, I still don't understand what you are saying. Sorry. So, to translate in English: I should learn to control my sexual desires to the level of not having and wanting sex - right? I should alter incoming parameters so that the output matches the requirements of the input for my husband's operating system. Correct? 

Interesting... 

BTW, animals CAN control their instincts almost as well as humans. I am not sure about minks, but dogs can be trained to ignore their instincts to bark/bite/take food, etc... And tigers can be trained to jump through fire and paper blocked circles. Now, in all due honesty, I do not want to be that tiger... 

Yes, I can train myself to control a lot of desires/emotions built into me. But what would be the difference between me and that tiger then?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

john117 said:


> Most human behavior is fairly simple...


A good deal of it is akin to the rats and cheese scenario, and much is basic feedback loops.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

rubymoon said:


> Good thing you mentioned operating systems as I am an IT professional. However, I still don't understand what you are saying. Sorry. So, to translate in English: I should learn to control my sexual desires to the level of not having and wanting sex - right? I should alter incoming parameters so that the output matches the requirements of the input for my husband's operating system. Correct?
> 
> Interesting...
> 
> ...


If we completely take something away or remove it or provide no reward to a part of an ego or psyche or how you want to word it, do you think it's completely free?

I'm sure repressing certain parts of your will and desire will repress other things. It can also bring out other things as well.

Personally I think sex is a wonderful excersize, a best form of excersize actually that provides a reward mechanism the entire time.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's a question of "could" versus "should".

Let's say an 80 year old heiress takes fancy to my Altia skills and comedy abilities and proposes to marry me. I could, in a few years, be getting a sizable chunk of cash if I don't bed her day nurse. So, no sex for a few years vs a few millions. 

That's an extreme case but if you value your kids vs your spouse you could well end up doing it as well.

Training for animals and people works because it balances reward with risk. Fetching a dropped duck is risky if you're a dog (no food) but the reward is a treat or two when Fido deposits the slain duck at his masters boots. 

Or you can choose to find other venues for satisfaction outside the covenants of marriage. 

But you really can't say that your life will be ruined or what not like the earlier poster implied. You (everyone) has options. 

To me the "reward" i.e. the serious cash my wife contributes towards two expensive college tuitions is worth the "risk" of a sub-optimal intimate life. But I'm 54 and already had a quarter century of good intimate life with her. If I was 25 or 35, different parameters... different outcomes. 

In 3 years more pressing things will cause a reevaluation of our marriage and at that time we will call it quits, amicably or not. 

If your husband is heir to big money and moves you around in a Gulfstream that's one thing. If it's a Buick Roadmaster wagon it's quite another. 

In psychology we have a lot of fun games to find peoples' risk vs reward threshold. You'll be surprised to see how constant those thresholds are across application areas.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

treyvion said:


> A good deal of it is akin to the rats and cheese scenario, and much is basic feedback loops.



Don't tell my boss


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
It might be possible to change someone's sexual interests by training, but there has been very little success in that. Attempts to turn gay people straight though "training" have generally gone very poorly (as well as being an appalling thing to do). Although I don't have statistics, it seems that people in situations where they are prohibited from having sex have a tendency to develop other sexual behaviors, sometimes deviant and destructive like pedophilia. 

The real point though is that a happy intimate sex life is one of the GOALS of life, not just something you do. It is so important that there is no reason to suppress it. 

People's interests vary a lot, but I (and many other people) quite simply would not be happy with a good sex life. There really isn't any amount of money that would convince me to give it up (ignoring doing the "right" thing and giving billions to charity or similar). 

What makes rubymoon's (and other people's) situation so miserable is that she can't have sex and stay with the person she loves.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> When women are unable to have intercourse they are routinely advised to use their hands and mouth. *After all a married man cannot survive without sex at least 2-3 times a week* so his wife must do what is necessary to pride it.. with her having the intent of loving him and wanting to have intimacy with him of course.
> 
> There is no difference when a man cannot have an erection. He also has hands and a mouth. He can also make love to his wife in the same manner.


Well, I'm still alive so there goes that theory. I may not be living ... but I'm surviving


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

treyvion said:


> You can still LEAVE. Get a house down the block, split up the current homes value and go start your own house.
> 
> Either that or take on a lover. "You don't want to have sex that's fine. It's not acceptable at all to me. I will be starting to look for a new lover. If you think this means open relationship or swingers your wrong, I will leave you if you cheat on me"


I could never do that to my daughters. They mean more than that to me.


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

john117 said:


> If your husband is heir to big money and moves you around in a Gulfstream that's one thing. If it's a Buick Roadmaster wagon it's quite another.
> 
> .


I already explained my reward - he is good to my son from my first marriage. He is a good father figure. My husband is well off, so am I. Financial aspect is not a factor either way.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

rubymoon said:


> Yes. It's not like leaving is not an option, but there is way more in this marriage than just me, no matter what needs of mine are not satisfied. My son (from my first marriage) is very attached to my husband. My first husband is less than a very poor role model for my son. My now husband is a great role model, and he spends quite a bit of time with my kid - they enjoy doing manly things together, that I would never be able to do (fish, shoot, play sports). My husband gives manly advises and teaches my son to be a man. It's a priceless gift to see a good father figure for my son! I cannot give it up.
> 
> So... I am trying to figure out how to live this life without pain.
> 
> ...


Ruby - thank-you. 
Thank-you for also saying that leaving isn't always an option. Whilst sex is very important in a marriage, it is not everything.
Your husband does 'manly' things with your son, that has a 'value'...
My wife isn't interested in sex blah blah blah, but we don't fight. We used to but I just lost interest and gave up.
We have a nice home that our children love and regard as 'home'...where they belong. That too has a 'value'.

So for me, and you it seems, the price to leave is simply too high at the moment. 
We come to TAM to seek advise - some we take some we don't - to let off steam and have a general whinge and to empathise with people in the same situation as us.

I also like your reference to a pie chart....In 'happier' times I was a far 'cooler' person than I am now. I find that I lose my temper more often, and it takes less to make it happen these days. 
My idea, now, of a great night is a good meal (cooked my me - hobby) for the four of us, a bottle of wine (for me!) in bed by 10pm and asleep by 10.03pm!

PPL = Private Pilots Licence


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## rubymoon (Jul 21, 2014)

I just want to thank everyone who responded to my post. It really helped me to re-evaluate the situation, to believe that my problem is real, to put my feelings in words, and so much more.

I have been distant from my husband for a few days over this issue. Finally, last night we got to talk. Well, it wasn't quite talking - it was me yelling and crying. For the first time in two years! I was always super-duper gentle and tactful talking about my needs (never his issues) to avoid making the problem even bigger. Well, I was still talking about my needs, not his issues, but it wasn't very gentle. It was just the way I felt. 

He set quietly. Didn't say much. Asked for some time to fix the problem. He is a man of very few words. But we had sex this morning, he started hugging, kissing me and telling me that he loves me. And we are going out tonight on a date. 

I do know that we will be going through motions. But the man does hear me!!! When I speak very loudly that is 

Thank you


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