# Religious differences as the last drop?



## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Hi,

married for 20 years, for the last 5 years have strong growing desire to leave the marriage. Married young, she was my first girl, she fell for me while I was not in love, but she was more like friend with benefits to me. I always had problems say ILY words to her, always forced myself in response, had problems showing affection, especially on public, I was literally ashamed of her at times (she is petite and pretty but I was just not into her). Nevertheless we got married at hasty circumstances. The problem started from first years of marriage, again no affection from me, I started to avoid her sexually and withdraw for months (well that happened even before marriage while dating, we dates 4 years). On her concerns I usually responded with lame explanations that it's temporary and tried to fix it myself. She usually was satisfied with answer. But after some time it would repeat again and again. For the last 5 years we are sexless (few times a year) and now it's almost an year of dry spell. This time finally I started to analyse and came to the conclusion that acted as passive aggressive abuser and damaged our relationships myself by letting it go for so long.

Here's some of my issues identified:

- Lack of emotional intimacy due to psychological problems in communication (call it compatibility?) and my built over the time resentment if inability to communicate openly

- Very different temperaments, don't get each other well, not much conflicts but unresolved tension that lasts

- Lack of initial chemistry and physical attraction: she was in love with me, I didn't. I did not know that there was such thing as love, so I just went along for a ride, bad decision.

- I'm totally frustrated by her "righteousness" and prudishness. 

All this may be workable but the last thing is she turned at some point born-again fundamentalist Christian while me being an atheist. This contributed to us drifting apart even further. I have no interest to build close relationship with whatever spirit is talking from her head. All I hear is verses from bible of some interpretations heard from pastors. I really want to talk to the person with authentic thinking. On top of it she takes kids to the endless church events and groups and this makes me sad seeing how young minds being indoctrinated. Kids are sad too, that their dad is going to hell. 

We are currently working with NC and she thinks we let it go for very long so the damage is large.

If anyone have worked problems strong religious differences. I'd appreciate your opinions, ideas.

Thanks!


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You got yourself into this situation by marrying her when you weren't in love with her, then you had children. If you wanted out of the marriage you should have done it before you had children. Don't make them pay for your mistake. Stay in the marriage until they are grown and out of the house. Everything you mentioned is fixable. You haven't tried. You haven't shown emotion and love to your wife. You made the big mistake of marrying someone you didn't love, haven't shown her love and now you want out? You need to work harder on this marriage instead of deserting your family.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

Happilymarried25 said:


> You got yourself into this situation by marrying her when you weren't in love with her, then you had children. If you wanted out of the marriage you should have done it before you had children. Don't make them pay for your mistake. Stay in the marriage until they are grown and out of the house. Everything you mentioned is fixable. You haven't tried. You haven't shown emotion and love to your wife. You made the big mistake of marrying someone you didn't love, haven't shown her love and now you want out? You need to work harder on this marriage instead of deserting your family.


SO, you are suggesting he show the children that a unloving family is who they should conduct their lives once they are married? That is not fair to the kids.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

My ex also "got religion" near the end of our relationship. The relationship was already dead, but this added even more clarity about ending it.

Anyway OP, it sounds like you're really not compatible, and you would both be better off apart. If you do divorce, give your kids the benefit of your (age appropriate) perspective on religion to counter her indoctrination.


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## dazed794 (Aug 31, 2014)

Sorry this might not be much help. But other than the never loving her part, your situation sounds exactly like what I expect from mine 10 years from now if we stay married. If our MC gives us any bright ideas I'll post back.

Tough to come to terms with the fact that the children are going to be indoctrinated no matter what we do. Because in divorce, the woman (almost always) gets the kids. I just hope I can teach them critical thinking skills so that they figure things out on their own, and hopefully at a younger age than me.

This may not be the case for you, but often I think us critical thinkers have a tough time getting to our true feelings. You know, love becomes a choice of logic rather than something we feel or do. My wife always says I show no emotion (but I promise it's there somewhere hidden under the rationality).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm curious... Is there someone else you can see yourself with?

Your situation sounds bad, but it's need that way for 20 years. So what's really driving the desire to change things up now? Seems that she's been somewhat religious up until now, no?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

"Is it possible to build something usable on such shaky foundation without having common shared values? Sounds to me being an engineer, it's not going to fly. Our MC (not an atheist) thinks it's not possible either."

If it was going to work, it would have by now. And I think your wife is right, if you are going to do it, do it now.


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback, folks, I will respond to each post individually. I appreciate all opinions: against and for divorce. Especially interesting if someone tried to work through beliefs conflict situation and what was the outcome. In the divorce case, I understand it's all about trade-offs and you're going trade one set of problems for another. It just seems to me this area is very critical for efficient relationship building at this point. Of course, it's all specific context based.


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Yes, that's my fault and I feel incredible guilt. It's a good question, why...

Earlier on I did not pay attention much to the emotional and spiritual side of the marriage. I did not know better, grew up seeing parents only on summer vacations and they did not have any affection to each other, so I thought it's normal. When we had problems, I always thought it would improve if I took care of practical matters. I was so busy with life problems, I always was working heads down to achieve some goals: fighting chronic illness, moving to another country, making career, building house, etc. Before kids we did get counseling but it was Christian and they only considered staying in marriage and did not let even discuss D word. 

I should say that I tried. We went through several periods when I worked hard after counseling on showing love and affection. I've always done the "action" part of love: patience, kindness, respect, care. It's other part showing affection and intimacy was difficult and I felt forced to do it, not doing it sincerely or naturally, out of obligation. For these years in life she said was relatively happy, but I wasn't. And it always comes back to the lower low, I guess you just get tired of constantly working on the same thing with little return.

Staying just for the kids without changing is not an option: we both are demanding and want all or nothing. But each wants it his own way: I want her out of the church and work on herself. She wants me to study bible and do it religious way. 



Happilymarried25 said:


> You got yourself into this situation by marrying her when you weren't in love with her, then you had children. If you wanted out of the marriage you should have done it before you had children. Don't make them pay for your mistake. Stay in the marriage until they are grown and out of the house. Everything you mentioned is fixable. You haven't tried. You haven't shown emotion and love to your wife. You made the big mistake of marrying someone you didn't love, haven't shown her love and now you want out? You need to work harder on this marriage instead of deserting your family.


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Two questions here, answering second first. No, she was not religious when we got married. But yes, she was always gravitating towards certain type of mass hysterical beliefs. Her brain works this way that it gets easily carried away by some idea from pseudo-authorities and/or media. Like anti-vaccination, obsession with everything healthy and natural, fear of all kinds of additives, following some "natural healing guru" who makes money on internet etc. I usually spend good deal of effort trying to dissipate all those hypes an myths in her head, but once in a while she will catch another virus. I'm all for common sense, natural food is great, but I don't like fanaticism.

Now, the first question. Yes, I'd like to find a partner that suits much better in terms of psychological and emotional compatibility. This is a dream though, as I'm very shy with women - another reason I could not bring myself to part with her, was afraid not finding anybody. I though of someone more compatible many times during our marriage. But it's only by now, I more or less understand my needs. I'd love to live with someone open-minded, non-religious, and of course someone I have mutual emotional and physical attraction to. So, I can be myself without fear being judged. Other stuff, like common background, shared interests and dreams together is just not important as I learned. These things can be changed, acquired, lost, re-prioritized, but the character won't.




PBear said:


> I'm curious... Is there someone else you can see yourself with?
> 
> Your situation sounds bad, but it's need that way for 20 years. So what's really driving the desire to change things up now? Seems that she's been somewhat religious up until now, no?
> 
> ...


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Thank you. I'm trying to change. I've never spoken about my feelings, nobody taught me in my family and there was no good example. I used to harbor everything inside, so it's new to me. I initiate talk with my wife now every night, for 2-3 hours. But I'm mostly the one who's speaking, I don't hear from her much. I guess being the one who screwed up I have to make up. I just don't understand, why she never confronted me hard after multiple failed promises. Why would she endure years of emotional abuse from the person she loves. According to her she believed in my change and patiently waited (as bible teaches).

Continue to bear is a poor option, especially now when cards are open on the table. 



IHateDustJackets said:


> Husky:
> I think you're showing some real bravado being so open with us. I also think that as the leader of the family there needs to be some dedication and patience on your part. Continue to love your wife and children as if they were the most precious thing on this earth, because they are. Continue to bear with your wife as she continues to grow in her faith and try to see things from her vantage point. I'm not saying become a mindless drone sort of Christian but I think It would be helpful if you gave your wife some points to speak on so that you can hear her mind on these issues. Stay engaged and keep us updated.
> 
> IHateDustJackets


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

It's sad but it is a good thing you found it earlier than I did. 

I hope kids are smart and resilient and will be able to make a free choice later, but of course religious pre-conditioning will reduce the likelihood of desired outcome and reduce capacity to critical thinking.

I agree, it's hard to find feeling behind logical reasoning. I'm quite emotional actually, I just was not able to recognize, analyse, and process own feelings. It's only now I reached certain maturity and got to the point of better understanding inner self. I've been reading tons of psychological, relationship, self improvement, and spiritual literature. I have a passion for many things in life, generally very optimistic, this is first time I'm dealing with depression like state. Assume, I could use the same passion towards another person.



dazed794 said:


> Sorry this might not be much help. But other than the never loving her part, your situation sounds exactly like what I expect from mine 10 years from now if we stay married. If our MC gives us any bright ideas I'll post back.
> 
> Tough to come to terms with the fact that the children are going to be indoctrinated no matter what we do. Because in divorce, the woman (almost always) gets the kids. I just hope I can teach them critical thinking skills so that they figure things out on their own, and hopefully at a younger age than me.
> 
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Who is the OW?


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Re. waiting 20 years, I gave partial answer in another reply to Happilymarried25. All life I had something else to take care of. By the time all was done and everything seemed to fall in place realization came I was worrying about wrong things. 

Why now then later? It's a narrow opportunity window. The time is working against us. She is more less on her own feet or on the way to it. She has a good chance now to find someone. I have stable income that would allow to support. If I wait till kids out, there will be less chance for both. 



PBear said:


> I'm curious... Is there someone else you can see yourself with?
> 
> Your situation sounds bad, but it's need that way for 20 years. So what's really driving the desire to change things up now? Seems that she's been somewhat religious up until now, no?
> 
> ...


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Who is the OW?


No one.

[Edit comment: I removed cynical joke, as inappropriate in the context]


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Have you had affair(s) during your marriage? The way you portray yourself reeks with the stench of affair putrescence. 

Regardless, whatever philosophy you have followed in your life has damaged your marriage/wife as if you've been a serial cheater. My opinion is it's beyond help.

You can say whatever you want about her religion, but make absolutely no mistake... your philosophy has absolutely crushed your marriage. 

Do yourselves a huge favor and give her the most painless divorce you can and let her find another man having values in common with her.


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Yes, had ONS which sent me in depression beginning this year. I feel guilt and want to leave. Yes, I'm also (emotional) abuser. You're absolutely right that it's my behavior made the marriage die, no questions about that. Looking at what I wrote, with such attitude there's no hope to fix things. So leaving is the only option and help rebuild our lives. Thank you for your honest opinion.



commonsenseisn't said:


> Have you had affair(s) during your marriage? The way you portray yourself reeks with the stench of affair putrescence.
> 
> Regardless, whatever philosophy you have followed in your life has damaged your marriage/wife as if you've been a serial cheater. My opinion is it's beyond help.
> 
> ...


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Husky

To me your posts describe you as superior and your wife as off in her views.

If your wife is very committed and deep into her beliefs then she will not change. You sound like you will not change so then you are right; you should leave and let her find someone else.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

husky said:


> Yes, had ONS which sent me in depression beginning this year. I feel guilt and want to leave. Yes, I'm also (emotional) abuser. You're absolutely right that it's my behavior made the marriage die, no questions about that. Looking at what I wrote, with such attitude there's no hope to fix things. So leaving is the only option and help rebuild our lives. Thank you for your honest opinion.


I commend your truthfulness. 

In going forward be aware that affairs, even ONS, have a consistent and predictable effect of reducing your ability to sustain relationships. They cause you to lose empathy and the ability to truly love another person among many other things. Watch out for those landmines in the future.

Have you confessed your ONS to your wife? Whatever you do I recommend that you be merciful and fair to her in spite of her kooky religious persuasions. Good luck.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

I also recommend that you direct your wife to TAM to help her in coping with the situation.


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

I came back and re-read original post - too much selfish emotions. I'm very sorry if it came across as I'd tried to blame the other side at times. It was not the intent. I posted to validate thoughts that divorce was the only logical outcome. I went back and removed unnecessary details leaving just neutral facts. It's really helpful to write down one's feelings and then read it later and see yourself from the outside. 

Of course, largest responsibility is on me. I simply acted immature while focusing on other things. Wasn't true to myself, built resentment, frustration and anger inside and let it go for a long time. And finally I allowed these feelings to define irresponsible actions that damaged our relationship to the point beyond repair. 

I plan to learn the lesson and eliminate character flaws that led to this. It's not going to be easy. We are working with MC on the situation. I will do everything possible to resolve with least pain to my partner. Thank you for the feedback.


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

I definitely don't enjoy this. Even if don't bully her verbally but as you've seen here, that's what is in my head. I'm trying to understand how I became a psychological terrorist. I have a lot of issues and complexes to deal with.

And I apologize for posting a cynical joke in response to your question. 



Catherine602 said:


> Why does weasel come to mind when I read this? Cant think why. Anywhooo
> 
> Gather all of the decency and empathy you can dredge up within yourself and D. What's stopping you? Do you enjoy inflicting pain on a person who did nothing to warrant your abuse and who cannot fight back?
> 
> ...


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

We're both stubborn. But she doesn't wage psychological warfare against me, like I did. She has her set of problems but mine are more acute. 

That's where it all started. The same stubbornness and other complexes played role in decision as well. Then I just collected points I knew did not like but would not speak up. The church thing just blew all my breakers I guess. I'm better with machines than people.



Personal said:


> Although I am an atheist like you, I don't believe your wife's religious lunacy has anything to do with your awful marriage.
> 
> You ruined your marriage the moment you settled and married someone you cruelly didn't love, all after that is largely superfluous.
> 
> Do your wife a favour and let her go, likewise do yourself the same favour and act with honesty in any and all of your future relationships.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

husky said:


> I definitely don't enjoy this. Even if don't bully her verbally but as you've seen here, that's what is in my head. I'm trying to understand how I became a psychological terrorist. I have a lot of issues and complexes to deal with.
> 
> And I apologize for posting a cynical joke in response to your question.


Wait a minute don't go too far here. I did not mean what you said. Terrorist, I don't think so, bad person, still off the mark. Acting out of frustration, anger and lack of awareness because of past decisions are not a capital offenses. I have done things with the same operating system but I'm not a bad person. 

Very grateful that people made me aware of my errors and that I am able to start the process of change. Please don't get down on yourself, that is no good for change. You will not be able to act rationally. 

Take what you can from the comments, not all are applicable. Somewhere in the posts, you will get useful advice and find the way forward.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Just my two cents...

You say she wasn't always religious. Maybe it was her critical thinking that led her to Christianity?

You say you'd love to live with someone open-minded yet you are the one who is complaining about the others' beliefs. 

"Critical thinkers" like challenge and debate. Your differences should be stimulating yet here you are telling us that you cannot accept her for what she believes in?


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Would you enjoy living your life in religious debate club where topic of the day never changes? It's nice to have stimulating conversations and arguments once in a while but we're talking about bonding here. In personal relations you'd soon get tired of hearing the same bible verses over and over. Very soon, you would be able to predict response and loose all interest. Intimacy requires being comfortable inside each other head yet this becomes a constant source of our discomfort. And you're right, I can't accept these differences, simply because I don't love. 



Ceegee said:


> Just my two cents...
> 
> You say she wasn't always religious. Maybe it was her critical thinking that led her to Christianity?
> 
> ...


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

I don't think I'm superior, especially given the behavior pattern I followed. I made mistakes, tried to fit and make things work against inner self and am paying high price for it now. 




Mr Blunt said:


> Husky
> 
> To me your posts describe you as superior and your wife as off in her views.
> 
> If your wife is very committed and deep into her beliefs then she will not change. You sound like you will not change so then you are right; you should leave and let her find someone else.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

husky said:


> Would you enjoy living your life in religious debate club where topic of the day never changes? It's nice to have stimulating conversations and arguments once in a while but we're talking about bonding here. In personal relations you'd soon get tired of hearing the same bible verses over and over. Very soon, you would be able to predict response and loose all interest. Intimacy requires being comfortable inside each other head yet this becomes a constant source of our discomfort. And you're right, I can't accept these differences, simply because I don't love.


If she were a better theological adversary would it make a difference?


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## husky (Sep 16, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> If she were a better theological adversary would it make a difference?


Hardly, it would probably delay things further. There was common goal that kept us together initially but it's long gone. As we work through the situation with MC there're deeper issues than that. Apparently, wife knew I was not into her, but wouldn't admit to herself and to me. I, in turn, kept quiet out of my own fears. Shrink says this comes from years of physical abuse during childhood. So our marriage was built on fear, rather than love, pretty miserable state.


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