# Can you be patient, and wait for sweet revenge?



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Yeah, revenge is a topic most feel should be avoided. Denying it will not make it go away, though.

20 years ago a man 8.5 years older than my 25 year old wife seduced her thru their work relationship, despite the fact that both were married, and my wife had a toddler at home. There is not enough forgiveness and light in this world that will ever erase my hatred for him.

The OM has a daughter that is now in college. She appears to be the typical rich-beotch, spoiled brat from a broken home living off daddy's ill gotten money, self absorbed party girl that just makes people sick. OM seems purely indulgent of her.

So, I'm patiently waiting the day she graduates college. (she's surely on the 5 year plan) Then, I am going to send a card to the OM:

"Congrats on your daughter's graduation. I hope in her first job she meets a man JUST LIKE YOU!"

Feel free to disagree. But that's what I call Coping.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Words are, for the most part, ineffective. He'll probably have a nice laugh and do what he does best.

Ever thought of seducing his daughter and then sending a card with a photo maybe? " Congrats, your daughter knows how to spread em!!"


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Read the Count of Monte Cristo.

Still, the one who put that knife in your back was your wife.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ripper said:


> Read the Count of Monte Cristo.
> 
> Still, the one who put that knife in your back was your wife.


Perhaps, but OM provided the knife.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Ripper said:


> Read the Count of Monte Cristo.
> 
> Still, the one who put that knife in your back was your wife.


I have.

She has faced the music, accepted responsibility, and made atonement.

Like I said, revenge ain't for everyone. He's too cowardly to face me, so for this can either laugh at his own creepiness, or forgive me. Move on, be the bigger man, all that.


----------



## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

I get you Forest. We can't forgive and forget. All we can do is put it in the back of our minds and learn to live with it. But it will always pop up now and then bringing with it thoughts of revenge. I see nothing wrong with revenge. It's done every day in court. Criminals are put in prison which is the revenge of our society on them, making them pay for their actions. Revenge to me is consequences and justice. Don't all of us feel good when a murderer gets put away? That's revenge in my books. 

I don't think what you're planning will have any effect at all on OM. He's a jerk and arrogant. He will think that no man would ever cheat on his spoilt little princess because she is so wonderful. He is likely to scoff at it IMO. Sorry. That's how fathers who spoil their daughters think. 

Instead consider this. Did you tell his wife about what happened? If not you MUST. That will cause him some trouble. You might consider posting him on Cheatersville. Expose him. Tell everyone you know about it, including anyone you know who knows him. Is he a well-respected member of the community? If he is, even better. Make things uncomfortable for him. It will make things uncomfortable for your wife too but frankly that's no harm. Maybe you don't want to go public for your own sake but consider it at least. 

I hope you don't mind me saying this. Your post came across as if your 25 year old wife was seduced by a man 10 years older, almost as if she was at his mercy. She wasn't. She was a grown woman, 25 and mother to a toddler, a time that should be joyful for a couple having brought a precious little person into this world. She wasn't forced. She said yes, turned her back on you her husband, her provider and father of her child and shared another man's bed, Sorry if that hurts. That's where I think your real anger is.

IMO, you are projecting too much of the blame on OM. I also feel that despite what you say, a lot of your anger and quest for revenge may because WS had no real consequence, one that made her sit up and shock her, just as you were shocked on D-day. I think it may be buried deep in your subconscious. Sure you shouted at her and said terrible things to her. That's easy for WS. It's just talk and they expect it. Despite what you said to her you still stayed. And she is spoiling you now? That's easy for her to do too.

Could you move out for a couple of months? Rent a small place? I'm not talking about leaving her. I'm talking about having consequences for her that hit home and make her see what she was risking by having a PA & more to the point by lying to you for 20 years depriving you of the chance to leave her, because you might have done at the time. She played with your life. 

You could tell her you are feeling very confused and angry, which is true and you just want to be by yourself for a while. If it were me, this would be something I would regard as revenge. It's justice in fact like I said above. It might help to resolve your anger and make you feel that you are not the one doing all the pain because that's how it is now. You could enjoy it, hit the gym, have your kids come by and hang out with them on your own - there's nothing better than one-on-one with your kid and we don't often get the chance. You can say that you and Mum had a fight, that you're not divorcing but you just needed to be by yourself for a while to cool down and that you will be fine after a little break. It could at the same time be very constructive for you and your WS too. I know it's pretty extreme but there you have it. 

As for revenge on OM, consider what I said above. Throw the question out there to other posters for ideas. Make some real consequences for him, now. You don't really want to waste your energy on it for a few years waiting for his daughter to graduate. 

You'll probably get cross with me for what I have said.  But it's only my opinion and I could be way off the mark on what I have said.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Feel free to disagree. But that's what I call Coping.



Forest, if that will help you then I have no disagreement. In fact if the only choice is to think of revenge on the OM rather than your repentant wife then that will serve a good temporary purpose. From what you have written your wife is suffering over her humiliating action. You will probably live with your wife for many years to come so you do not want to destroy or damage her any more than she has done to herself. I am not taking for the WS it is just a fact that Forest will be better if he dreams about cutting the OM nuts off rather than damage the person that will live with him and be a positive for their children. 

Perhaps a better revenge would be that you keep improving and become a man that is 100 times better than the OM. My guess is that the satisfaction that you may get from sending him that card will not last long. However, *you getting better will give you satisfaction for the rest of your life.*

I know that you are getting the shyty end of this situation right now and thoughts of revenge can be a temporary relief. Sooner or later your anger and revenge mood will not be as strong and that is when you will be able to concentrate more on what will help YOU. If kicking the OM AZZ so hard that he wears his 
a-hole for a necktie would get you a lot better for a very long time then I would buy you the AZZ kicking boots!


You will never forget what your wife did and it will have some consequences that will not go away. However, you can get better in other areas to offset your loss. If you get a LOT better in those areas then you will actually be better than you are now. That is why I keep trying to get you to concentrate on YOU. You cannot erase what happened but you can get to where it does not have such a negative effect on your emotions. *If you minimize the negative effects that the affair has on your emotions and you get better in other areas then you will be better off than you are now.*


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

BjornFree said:


> Words are, for the most part, ineffective. He'll probably have a nice laugh and do what he does best.
> 
> *Ever thought of seducing his daughter and then sending a card with a photo maybe? " Congrats, your daughter knows how to spread em!!*"



I actually like this idea. If you can't do it, then have someone close to you who is capable of it. The one way you hurt pond scum like this guy is to hurt the thing he values the most, his daughter in this case.

I find it much easier to forgive, forget and move on once you've had your revenge. Yeah, I know its not the healthiest perspective but it does provide closure. Allowing somebody to get away "scot-free" isn't part of my mental makeup.


----------



## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

Forest said:


> 20 years ago . . .
> 
> There is not enough forgiveness and light in this world that will ever erase my hatred for him.
> 
> ...


Wow! Strong public proclamation of _hatred_. Obviously holding a strong, unhealthy grudge _decades_ after the offense. Keeping the OM under observation, tracking his family, setting them up for ambush as pawns in your twisted revenge plot?

I like you, Forest!


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> Out of interest has she tried the 'you have a free pass' offer?
> 
> If so I would think very carefully before cashing it in, if at all.





Forest said:


> No, that's never come up. I think we've matured beyond that kind of thing now. That's the type of thing that (for me) would just be a weak and pathetic attempt at revenge that wouldn't work. Wouldn't level the playing field; wouldn't make the torment go away. Why bother?





From this above to this below.




Forest said:


> Yeah, revenge is a topic most feel should be avoided. Denying it will not make it go away, though.
> 
> 20 years ago a man 8.5 years older than my 25 year old wife seduced her thru their work relationship, despite the fact that both were married, and my wife had a toddler at home. There is not enough forgiveness and light in this world that will ever erase my hatred for him.
> 
> ...



Just what do you think sending a wussy letter like that is going to accomplish?

You do realise that he is quite capable of sending you another letter back don't you?

Are you able to cope with something like;

_Dear Forest,

Thank you for your letter.

However I have no concerns for my daughter, unlike your slapper wife she has integrity and decency.

I cannot control what she does but I highly doubt that when married some other guy will be able to get her knickers off her within hours of meeting her and have her gasping in his arms.

Thanks for the loan of your wife, it was fun.

Signed, The guy who boinked your wife._

If you are set on revenge don't write some wussy letter, do something a bit more constructive or find some way to put this all behind you.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> If you are set on revenge don't write some wussy letter, do something a bit more constructive or find some way to put this all behind you.


In other words, what Wysh means by _constructive_ is: If you don't have the stomach to dish out as good as you get, don't do it. Revenge is for the ruthless.


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> If you don't have the stomach to dish out as good as you get, don't do it. Revenge is for the ruthless.


If you have anything of value around you that can be lost in this then just walk away, revenge can get real messy, and not in a good way.

If it is still bothering you so deeply after 2 decades then your wife did a number on you making the blame shifting a complete reality in your eyes, "he seduced me", phuck off, my W has two words to end any advances in her direction from any other men, "Not" & "Interested", further attempts have been met with a bucket of water to cool them off and normally profuse expletives to show she is not interested, your W phucked him, blame is really on her, you used the word seduced, erm, she knew full well where that was going and could have stopped long before it got to deep throating and anal.

You are carrying this way too long and far too much anger is invested in it.

Go to the gym and take up boxing or karate or something where you can chanel your anger.


----------



## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Why in the world are you or people suggesting you get revenge through his daughter? She did nothing to you. Your wife is the one who broke her vows. You may want to seek IC as from what I see it's been over 20 years. Seems like this is consuming your soul.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

mablenc said:


> *Why in the world are you or people suggesting you get revenge through his daughter? She did nothing to you. *
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My thoughts exactly.  These kind of suggestions make me sick. Yeah, I was the WS. Still....... Anyone suggesting, or encouraging this kind of behavior really needs to check themselves.

Just as those who commit adultery are solely responsible for their actions, with no one to blame but themselves, so are those who seek revenge on completely innocent parties. 

Frankly, I'm disturbed by just now much personal information the OP appears to know about the AP's daughter.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

EI said:


> My thoughts exactly.  These kind of suggestions make me sick. Yeah, I was the WS. Still....... Anyone suggesting, or encouraging this kind of behavior really needs to check themselves.
> 
> Just as those who commit adultery are solely responsible for their actions, with no one to blame but themselves, so are those who seek revenge on completely innocent parties.
> 
> Frankly, I'm disturbed by just now much personal information the OP appears to know about the AP's daughter.


Consider the source.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Mrs Adams,

You are right. However, Forest is venting, which is what the forum is for.


----------



## owl6118 (Jan 30, 2014)

I don't like or condone where Forest is going with this either.

But in fairness, the thing Forest himself mentioned was sending a card to the father, trying to play a nasty little mental trick by getting him to see his daughter as the potential victim of a workplace seducer. Which I think is morally wrong and practically ill advised. 

Forest, don't go this way, it does no one any good and does you no credit. 

But let's also not misattribute to Forest the vile fantasies added by others. The things about contacting the daughter, seducing the daughter were contributed by other posters, not OP.

My understanding is also that all Forest knows about the daughter are publically available tidbits he came across reading up on the other man, which again is normal behavior after a DDay.

All that said, Forest, you are headed off the rails with the revenge fantasy, and even using the image of the daughter to prey on the affair partner's mind is out of bounds.


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Many ways to get back at OM. One train of thought is that heck the man had no regard for Forest's family so OM's family is fair game...right?

F*ck no. Leave the girl out of it. Focus on healing, to me even if he sent the card he'd feel ok for what 2 seconds? What next after that? Send a compromising photo of her dad and his WW to the children?

Sweet revenge is living your life. You want to reconcile with your wife then focus on that. You want to go Mano-a-mano with OM then do it. Leave their kids alone. Directly or indirectly.

You're on a windup.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I get the revenge thing, but I think you should have a little more compassion for his daughter. She's a victim in all of this as well, and had the misfortune of being raised by him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Ripper said:


> Read the Count of Monte Cristo.
> 
> Still, the one who put that knife in your back was your wife.


This irritates me to no end. THERE WERE TWO HANDS ON THAT KNIFE.

Not being willing to go after someone that has wronged you in the worst way is just a lack of back bone and fear.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

From what I've read on your other thread so far, the real problem seems to be your wife and the way you've dealt with this issue for 20 years.

For all the righteous ones, the post about seducing the daughter was to contrast how weak a letter comes off when compared to actions that can really hurt a man and a father.

And to be perfectly honest, if I were the BS and and any OM/W went after my spouse - and in the process after my kids. Then all bets would be off.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Wow, I don't get some of you. I never threatened to involve his daughter in anything, or contact her in any way. He is the one that attempted to end my marriage, and split MY daughter's parents. 

What I said was I merely send OM a card saying I hope she meets a man JUST LIKE HIM. 
The only person involved is OM and his knowledge of his own character. Could this not lead to him examining that deplorable character, and thus treat women with more respect in the future? Are you against that, too? Heaven forbid we try to mold character thru accountability! Thats some incredible empathy toward the infidel.

Another thing many don't realize is that I learned of the affair only 5 months ago. I have not been stallking this family, OM just has info about his daughter plastered all over his facebook page, traveling round the hemisphere. He's twice divorced, crooked as can be, and too scared to speak to me.

So, if you can't stomach speaking the truth to someone, maybe you're too self righteous for your own good.


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Forest said:


> *Yeah, revenge is a topic most feel should be avoided. Denying it will not make it go away, though.*
> 
> 20 years ago a man 8.5 years older than my 25 year old wife seduced her thru their work relationship, despite the fact that both were married, *and my wife had a toddler at home*. There is not enough forgiveness and light in this world that will ever erase my hatred for him.
> 
> ...


I'm sure, then, that you'll completely understand when the xAP's BS carries out her plan of revenge that involves wishing ill upon your child. No? :scratchhead: But, what if that's what she calls coping???  Get it, Forest? This method of coping is not appropriate or acceptable.... for anyone. The transgressions of your wife and the xAP do not justify poor choices are your part. YOU are solely responsible for your choices. You cannot help how you feel. You are clearly in pain. That's quite understandable. How you manage those feelings is on you. 



BjornFree said:


> Words are, for the most part, ineffective. He'll probably have a nice laugh and do what he does best.
> 
> *Ever thought of seducing his daughter and then sending a card with a photo maybe? " Congrats, your daughter knows how to spread em!!"*


From the start, I have often found your posts to be somewhat distasteful. About a year ago, I began to see less venom and more thoughtful responses coming from you. I find this discouraging. I think you're better than this. I hope you are.


----------



## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

Forest said:


> So, if you can't stomach speaking the truth to someone, maybe you're too self righteous for your own good.


I've more ruthless ideas. Pm me if interested. Vengeance is for one who can have it and enjoy it as well.


----------



## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

Forest....How can you be so blind....the OM did not attack or force your wife....SHE WENT WILLINGLY ....and continued to deceive and betray you...BECAUSE SHE LIKED IT...

Your anger is so misplaced I sit here in disbelief!

ITS YOUR WIFE WHO BETRAYED AND LIED......

Get real man...place blame where it belongs

I speak from experience!


----------



## damagedgoods1 (Nov 8, 2013)

Forest, your revenge idea of sending a card to the OM actually seems pretty mild IMO. I'm not sure it's going to get you the results you desire as you probably won't be there when the OM opens the card.

But if it makes you feel better, then by all means go for it. You're not breaking any laws (I think/assume).

I've read worse / better revenge stories on this forum.


----------



## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Wanting revenge in these circumstances is totally natural. In fact, I would say that revenge is really more like a desire for justice that is denied by modern society, because there is no legal penalty for adultery anymore. 

However, I think it is a bottomless pit that you can't ever really fill by pouring into it. All the revenge in the world will never change the past. And because you can't change the past, your feelings about it will never go away while you focus on it. Revenge fantasies are like any other emotional fantasy: the more you feed them the more they grow. 

Even if you send the letter, then what? Is a letter really going to repay the OM for what he did? Will a letter sent to him absolve your wife of her part? No and no. You'll feel a bit better momentarily and then that dark hole will gnaw at you again. This won't stop until you decide that you will focus on something else.


----------



## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

badkarma2013 said:


> ...the OM did not attack or force your wife....SHE WENT WILLINGLY ....and continued to deceive and betray you...BECAUSE SHE LIKED IT...


Your wife was not raped, she was not forced, she did it willingly. You cannot seduce a woman who does not want to be seduced. 

The shame about all of this is his (and her) actions will effect the rest of your life. In the meantime, your wife was no more than a brief blip in his life. Another conquest, another notch on the bed. Very unfair.

I understand the need to hate someone. You love your wife, so, it is better to channel your hatred toward him.

I also understand the desire for revenge. However, it sounds like he is a complete loser. Perhaps there is some solace in knowing you are the better man. 

A note as you suggested may give him some kind of perverted joy in knowing that what he did still bothers you and he did indeed win. 

Probably the only kind of revenge you could get on him that would have an impact would land you in jail. Perhaps if you are self destructive enough, it would be worth it?

It is just a no win situation, trying to get revenge on the OM who in reality could probably care less.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Maybe we should do a "show of hands". 

How many people that are a BS who have never cheated still think there is anything wrong with this?

Good Lord, its not like its anything illegal, harmful or dangerous. Ever heard of voir dire?


----------



## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

V for vengeance.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Forest said:


> Wow, I don't get some of you. I never threatened to involve his daughter in anything, or contact her in any way. He is the one that attempted to end my marriage, and split MY daughter's parents.
> 
> What I said was I merely send OM a card saying I hope she meets a man JUST LIKE HIM.
> The only person involved is OM and his knowledge of his own character. Could this not lead to him examining that deplorable character, and thus treat women with more respect in the future? Are you against that, too? Heaven forbid we try to mold character thru accountability! Thats some incredible empathy toward the infidel.
> ...


But what puzzled me is the fact that in one post you are against petty revenge and can't see what good it would do, and then in another your idea of revenge is posting a card to the guy saying, basically, "I hope your daughter has sex with a bad guy" :scratchhead:

If you want revenge, find a legal way to exact that revenge, carry it out and then walk away from the dude.

One of the best revenge stories I heard about was by a poster called (something like) CJ9947.

He mailed all the neighbours with details of the guy and his cowardly ways, I think it was one Christmas.

He then sued the guy for the cost of his STD test and had the pleasure of seeing him break down crying in court.

If you must get revenge make it legal, make it effective and then make sure you walk away leaving (as much as you can) him in the dust and in the past.

Also make sure you have the stomach for any repercussions.

Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.


----------



## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

Forest ,for the love of God...You are (in my opinion) so misguided...WHAT ABOUT YOUR WIFE!!!!

The OM did not Lie ,Betray and Deceive you...YOUR WIFE DID..

What have you done about her actions....Tell us WHAT?

If you have done nothing about HER...2 words come to mind..

DOORMAT is one.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

One of CJ's posts.

I think he did quite well considering the position he was in.





cj9947 said:


> I would like to start by saying an immense "Thank You" to everyone who shared their thoughts and opinions with me during this difficult period of my life. Your advice made a world of difference to me. Being an introvert, it felt good to know I was not alone in this experience.
> 
> This past year's experiences have had a powerful and trans-formative affect on my life. What started out as an issue between my wife and I has rippled through almost every major aspect of my life. My views and beliefs on friendship, family, marriage, money, and myself have all changed dramatically for my betterment.
> 
> ...


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

WyshIknew said:


> But what puzzled me is the fact that in one post you are against petty revenge and can't see what good it would do, and then in another your idea of revenge is posting a card to the guy saying, basically, "I hope your daughter has sex with a bad guy" :scratchhead:


I think you are taking this altogether too literally, and missing the intended message. 

The message is all about him. Obviously nothing I say is going to have any real influence or impact toward his daughter. The only realistic consequence of the card would be his examination of himself.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Revenge is your decision entirely so don't be lead by the opinions of anybody else. If you decide to pay him back, do your spade work first. Make sure its within the legal framework. then plot and be thorough in your execution and don't do anything by half measures so hurt him as badly you can. 

Consider this, if the OM has done something even mildly illegal and you had dirt on him would you or would you not go after him? Would you think of his daughter and the distress it would cause her before you approached the police?

If the answer is no, then go for it. The legal system sure as hell isn't your friend when it comes to infidelity at least. So the only justice you'll ever get is what you take, *legally*.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Forest said:


> I think you are taking this altogether too literally, and missing the intended message.
> 
> The message is all about him. Obviously nothing I say is going to have any real influence or impact toward his daughter. The only realistic consequence of the card would be his *examination of himself.*


Not likely to happen, besides we've got Jesus and karma to do that for us. You could try giving karma a hand.


----------



## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

why are you looking at OM's facebook?

for you own sanity, concentrate on yourself and not him. you'll never heal this way.


----------



## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Your best revenge? Make your marriage work in spite of the affair. Then you win.


OM- I screwed your wife. Whatcha gonna do?
BS- I'll keep her, A and all. I'm getting late for my IC. See ya later.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

cool12 said:


> why are you looking at OM's facebook?
> 
> for you own sanity, concentrate on yourself and not him. you'll never heal this way.


There is no arguing with this, it is logical. Too bad we cannot all be logical all the time, then no affairs would take place. How about I put another spin on this?

(cue soaring refrain)

I know I am making a gigantic sacrifice, and that I will only prolong my pain and anguish going down this path. But if I can just save ONE WOMAN, ONE MARRIAGE from the clutches of this horrible man, my mission will be a success! 

(end music)

(another thing for the naysayers to keep in mind, upon ending the affair my wife had to quit her job to get away from his unwanted advances and pestering. No chance of any legal action, all statutes have run, he has changed jobs many times.)


----------



## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

Well At least you have finally acknowledged your Wife had a part in this Affair.


----------



## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

it looks like all the ones that cheated dont want you to do anything but they dont know your pain. if sending the card makes you feel better do it. But make sure the daughter doesnt get the card. send it so he has to sign for it. but i really dont think its going to fix the problem your marrige is the problem now.


----------



## Jadiel (Oct 10, 2012)

It's totally acceptable to hate the OM provided that he knew he was messing with a married woman. If its just some joe blow who met a girl in a bar and he doesn't know jack about her then you can't really blame him.

Ya just dont mess with another man's wife. As far as I'm concerned, you bang a girl with a ring on her finger, you're signing a waiver that says "I fully grant BS the legal right to come kick my ass". Edit: I DO consider it "acceptable" if A) they're seperated and living in seperate places or B) you know the husband cheats on her or is abusive or C) husband is in prison. well, sometimes lol.


I don't see what all the hate about the daughter is. Unless I missed something its not like he said he's going to kill her or anything. I think someone else mentioned banging her or something, which, unless he rapes her, I dont think is so bad. It's all about knowing your target though. If its not going to affect OM at all, then don't bother. If it'll devastate him, well, he brought it on himself.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Forest said:


> There is no arguing with this, it is logical. Too bad we cannot all be logical all the time, then no affairs would take place. How about I put another spin on this?
> 
> (cue soaring refrain)
> 
> ...


How will you save another marriage by sending him such a lame assed letter? Your focus is misguided. Would you give a sh!t if the OM had an affair with someone else's wife instead of yours? I bet if your wife remained faithful to you, you wouldn't have cared what he did. Sure, you would have made a value judgement and not give him a second thought. 

He's nothing to you. It's all about the wife.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

To clear up a few misconceptions:

1. Yes the card is a wussy excuse for revenge. That's because he's refused to accept 3 offers from me to meet face to face. Two by phone, and one in his office when he barricaded himself in a conference room. I could hear him moving a table or something in front of the door. Very manly, and responsible. Like I keep repeating, merely a tweak to show him what a low life he is, but in a new, more revealing light.

2. My wife has been thru all the pain and anguish of R, also, I've just detailed it in other posts. I've held her accountable every step of the way these last months. In short, she has faced the consequences, and behaved in an honorable fashion during our recent trials.

3. Changing jobs at that time was no big deal. In her line of work, she always had people asking her to come to work for them. It raised no red flags at all at the time. Also, at the new job, her main coworker was going to be a woman that she had become good friends with, and enjoyed working around.


----------



## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> White raven....do you understand the OM could care less either way? If forest loves his wife and they reconcile...they win...regardless of the OM.


For you R is reconciliation , for me it's revenge. You are a saint, I'm a sinner. I don't think our views would ever match


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

WhiteRaven said:


> For you R is reconciliation , for me it's revenge. You are a saint, I'm a sinner. I don't think our views would ever match


I believe I think like a sinner, but act like a saint.

If you've ever had stitches in your lip after a fight with your brother, you'll know the how deep the claws of revenge can sink.


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

So she carried it hidden for 19 and a half years that she had an affair :scratchhead:

Painted the seduction picture, which you bought for $1,000,000

Now in R post finding out the deeds from 19 and a half years ago.

19.5 yrs is a long time to be carrying this secret inside isn't it? 

Why did she show so much loyalty to the OM to carry it hidden for so long?

Getting a bad feeling you may only know the half of this story.

Like I said, your W has a lot to answer for in this fiasco, she could have said no, she could have filed harassment charges, she could have owned it 19.5 yrs ago when it happened.

What is to say he is the only OM at this point as she hid that one you know of so well and for such a long time?


----------



## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

Forest said:


> I believe I think like a sinner, but act like a saint.
> 
> If you've ever had stitches in your lip after a fight with your brother, you'll know the how deep the claws of revenge can sink.


I have two elder brothers. Those good old days of swollen eyes, torn lips.:smthumbup:


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

WhiteRaven said:


> I have two elder brothers. Those good old days of swollen eyes, torn lips.:smthumbup:


I have THREE. Its a wonder I survived to adulthood. If it wasn't them, it was one of their victims after me all the time.

For Wranglerman, all I can say is I know what happened. I know what I believe is the truth. No one else knows as much as me.
I've decided on my feelings, have handled things the way I see fit, and will chart my own course.

Just thought some might appreciate that people can be reminded of their bad and harmful behaviors in ways they never imagined.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Forest said:


> To clear up a few misconceptions:
> 
> 1. Yes the card is a wussy excuse for revenge. That's because he's refused to accept 3 offers from me to meet face to face. Two by phone, and one in his office when he barricaded himself in a conference room. I could hear him moving a table or something in front of the door. Very manly, and responsible. Like I keep repeating, merely a tweak to show him what a low life he is, but in a new, more revealing light.
> 
> ...


This is another thing I don't understand, you have got revenge on him, you've basically had him crawling on his yellow belly and shetting his pants.

What more do you want?

Perhaps your letter should read more like;

Dear twat,

My hatred and disgust for you is so intense that I will never stop hounding you till the ends of time, every partner will know what an adulterous swine you are, all business associates will know how trustworthy you are from now till the end of our days.


Unless....

A. You publicly post on facebook that you are an adulterer, you are ashamed, you now know how wrong it was, you unreservedly apologise for your actions and that you promise to never do it again. (And leave it up for a specified amount of time.)

B. Write a letter to me apologising for your actions, you realise how wrong you were etc etc.

C. Anything else you or somebody else can think of.

Even that seems lame, but I don't really see any legal revenge that will give you satisfaction.

Post him on Cville perhaps?

You need to find a way to eventually move forward or simply divorce and find somebody new.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Wysh, now you're talking!

I'm actually waiting just a little while for the CV thing, for a reason. Then I plan on tuning him out for a few years until he gets the one last "wussy card" reminder.

Yeah, making him crawl and cower really should be good enough. But, like I mentioned, since childhood, I've been subject to a pretty specific way of handling issues with other males.

Lying still while a doctor sews your lip back together, you either focus on the pain, or the revenge. Ha! Not trying to sound mental.


----------



## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

Send a copy to his daughter and warn her about men like her father.


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Oh... my... my.

We all talk about consequences here... hmmm.

I not talking about violence, slander... I'm talking about consequence. For years, I hear "it's your spouse that betrayed you" the OM/OW had no vow with you, leave them alone. C'mon y'all, the getaway driver gets the Death Sentence just like the Trigger Man.


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Forest said:


> Wysh, now you're talking!
> 
> I'm actually waiting just a little while for the CV thing, for a reason. Then I plan on tuning him out for a few years until he gets the one last "wussy card" reminder.
> 
> ...


Well, I certainly hope that when your wife's xAP's BS launches her plan of revenge, and perhaps directs a pot shot, or two, about your daughter, into the mix, that your marriage, that you claim you wish to reconcile, can withstand the fallout. 

Are you familiar with this old Cherokee Parable:

_The Cherokee Chief is talking to his grandson:

“Your entire life there will be two wolves that are always at war within you, one is full of ego, anger and hate, he represents fear, bitterness, jealousy, frustration, revenge, and darkness. The other wolf radiates with light and love, he is kindness, hope, compassion, understanding and reconciliation.”

The young man pondered this for a minute and asked a question:

“So which wolf wins?”

The Chief smiled and put his hand on his grandson’s shoulder:

“It all depends on the one you feed…….”
_
If the xAP's BS should choose to get revenge on your wife, in the exact same way that you decide to get revenge on the xAP, will this be helpful or hurtful in your reconciliation? You need to think about this before you proceed. 

I was the WS. My husband and I will be two years, into what has become a very happy and successful reconciliation, at the end of next month. We will be renewing our vows, in June, on our 30th wedding anniversary. 

Is it beyond the realm of possibility, that the fact that I was the WS, in my marriage, does not discredit the integrity of my words?


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

sammy7111 said:


> it looks like all the ones that cheated dont want you to do anything but they dont know your pain. if sending the card makes you feel better do it. But make sure the daughter doesnt get the card. send it so he has to sign for it. but i really dont think its going to fix the problem your marrige is the problem now.



And, maybe, the ones who cheated are well aware of the pain that surrounds them, their spouses, and their children, and would like to see the suffering end and the healing begin. 

Maybe, those of us who have been fortunate enough to have a successful reconciliation, desire to share what has, and what has not, been beneficial in the reconciliation of our own marriages. 

Maybe, some of us, who cheated, and reconciled, are simply trying to help the OP achieve what he claims to want....... to reconcile his marriage. 

Every moment spent thinking about revenge, is a moment that could have been spent, with his spouse, rebuilding their marriage.


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

I have been through a lot in my life and know that there are some wicked things happening around the globe as I type this, but where does this go exactly?

What happens when he gives you the finger and tells you to crawl back under her petticoat? 

Does this become a slanging match in the streets if he does?

For you, I get it, this is 5 months ago, for him it was over 20yrs ago that he was nailing your old lady, I get the whole wanting to take revenge and ruin him publicly, make him pay etc, but when it is 20yrs in the past for him, I can see why he avoids you and why he really has nothing to say, he probably can't even remember if she was shaved down there or what positions he had her in, for him it really is old news.

Yes there are consequences in life for the things we do and also for the things we do not do.

All I will say is be careful what you wish for, you might just get it, and some times it can come back on you!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Forest*
> I know I am making a gigantic sacrifice, and that I will only prolong my pain and anguish going down this path. But if I can just save ONE WOMAN, ONE MARRIAGE from the clutches of this horrible man, my mission will be a success!


I think your main thought process is to dream up revenge thoughts about the OM more than save another woman from the OM.

As long as you do that here at TAM and not follow through with your revenge then maybe that will suffice for a short period. You are venting I hope. If you are directing your anger towards the OM rather than your wife I say that is totally understandable for now and if you cannot control your anger then it is a LOT better than directing your anger towards your remorseful wife. . *However, be careful to not allow your thoughts to be consumed by revenge as it will come back to hurt YOU in a BIG way.
As they say revenge is like you drinking poison and think the OM is going to die.*


My suggestion is to not pay any attention to these people telling you to turn your revenge towards your wife. Your wife is truly remorseful, been through the anguish of R, is accountable, has faced the consequences and behaved in an honorable way.
These people that want you to throw more coals on your wife’s head are projecting their anger and lack of contentment on to your wife. *They are bitter and angry and are a detriment to you having a good marriage.*


Some others on TAM, not like you, that do not have much of a chance to ever recover will remain bitter all their life. I do not know about you but I have a lot of life to live after my wife’s affair with the OM and I am not fond of being a bitter old man that no one wants to be around except other bitter old men. I looked for ways to make my life better and it is now much better. Who wants to spend decades being bitter and negative?


Forest, you can with your free will choose to do the tough things and force your mind, emotions, and actions to get a LOT better. You know the right things to do you just have chosen so far to give in to the temporary relief that anger, revenge, and hate give. You are a tough guy that can kick AZZ and split lips but that worked in Junior High and High school only ; does not work well in your current situation.* You are a tough man so tackle the real tough job of doing what is best for YOU and that will filter down to all of your love ones in your family*. I wrote a lot on this post but I could have saved myself a lot of writing by reposting what Mrs. JA and Cool12 said below





> *Mrs. JA*
> Your best revenge? Make your marriage work in spite of the affair. Then you win.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I am for justice but not revenge. Long term revenge plans suck. Feel sorry for the pos daughter. She had to grow up with the idiot. You need some decisive actions that can be taken care of now, that can satisfy you so you can move on.

Your wife kept this from you for 20 years. You know way too much about this pos. You and your wife might need to move. If staying in your current situation is not working to relieve your pain, then it needs to change. I come from the point of view that living with unnecessary pain is foolish.

If your foot has gangrene, CUT IT OFF AND LIVE!!!

There is an infection in your life that is not healed and causing you pain. I understand your reaction, but you are like an animal caught in a trap that is biting itself trying to stop the pain.

You need to cut pos out of your life completely at this point. You don't seem willing to cut your wife off, even for a time, so if she is your source of perpetual pain then you need to adjust yourself.

Your wife killed your marriage 20 years ago and neglected to let you know. It has been festering and slowly dying without your knowledge. The pain you are feeling is the result of finally being made aware of your WW fatal wound. Whatever your point of view, something needs to die quickly so it can be replaced with something that can live. 

Who you were might need to die. Who your wife was definitely needs to die, a cheater that lied for 20 years. You need to figure out what aspect of your life that is still infected and causing you pain. Your wound is still dirty and needs cleaned out so it can heal.

I don't know exactly what will work for you because I am not you. I do know that your current revenge thought process is not healthy and not cleaning your infected wound and not killing what needs to die. I feel for you and hate that you are suffering.

I sincerely hope you can identify what needs cut off, killed, or cleaned out so that you can heal and live.

Best wishes.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

EI said:


> Well, I certainly hope that when your wife's xAP's BS launches her plan of revenge, and perhaps directs a pot shot, or two, about your daughter, into the mix, that your marriage, that you claim you wish to reconcile, can withstand the fallout.




For "EI" above, my wife was the wayward when this POSOM was married to his first wife, with whom he had no children. His daughter is from his second wife, who divorced him sometime several years back.

Where my wife to receive something of a related sentiment from the first wife, I'd just reiterate how terrible infidelity is, and to be thankful she came to her senses before even more harm was done.

I'm completely willing to accept your words as honest and true. I am happy you have fixed whatever the issues were, and that your husband has been able to handle the aftermath.

I won't, however, wish you ill they way you have my spouse. A repentant spouse, one who has made atonement, is deserving that courtesy in my book.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

wranglerman said:


> I have been through a lot in my life and know that there are some wicked things happening around the globe as I type this, but where does this go exactly?
> 
> What happens when he gives you the finger and tells you to crawl back under her petticoat?
> 
> ...



I question why you think it is helpful to post talk like this. Your comments are just crude talk to try and grind away and someone you disagree with. They don't make you sound tough, if that was the goal. You want to discuss you wife's pubic region on here? Ridiculous and childish.

If you don't like it, say you disagree, or something else adult and intelligent to defend your position. All that other crap you said is straight out of a Jr. High bathroom.


----------



## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

An honest question for all-

How many of you have been bullied in high school? Do you still feel you should have done something about it? I was bullied. But I just feel pity for them. Know why? I skinned my knuckles on all of them. They won't forget me in this lifetime.


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Forest said:


> For "EI" above, my wife was the wayward when this POSOM was married to his first wife, with whom he had no children. His daughter is from his second wife, who divorced him sometime several years back.
> 
> Where my wife to receive something of a related sentiment from the first wife, I'd just reiterate how terrible infidelity is, and to be thankful she came to her senses before even more harm was done.
> 
> ...


EI is not wishing ill will on your spouse, she is trying to prevent you from doing something stupid that causes that to happen.

You have already approached OM three times. He can already get an RO against you.

Whether or you intend the letter as a threat, the law will not take any chances. You have already gone to his office so a judge will be concerned regarding you intentions once you invoke his daughter.


----------



## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Forest, 

While I agree with your desire to want to hurt him, your suggestion seems silly to me. If I were him I'd probably laugh at you, as it shows nothing more than the fact that he still gets under your skin. If he is such a deplorable a-hole as you suggest, he really won't care. 

I used to carry a lot of anger with me over some of what has happened to me -- but holding grudges and staying angry is far more detrimental to YOUR well being than anyone else. Your wife meant nothing to him, and as such, neither will your letter. 

And while I understand your intent is to hurt him, you are putting in writing that you hope his daughter (an innocent in this scenario) experiences a relationship with a similar POS as her dad -- she did not choose him, and all things considered he probably spoils her because he was such crap in so many other ways. She has had to deal with him her entire life. He probably buys her love because he is so poor at showing it in any other way. 

Please move on. Find a different outlet for your anger. He will get what is coming to him at some point. That is always the case.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Pepper123 said:


> Forest,
> 
> While I agree with your desire to want to hurt him, your suggestion seems silly to me. If I were him I'd probably laugh at you, as it shows nothing more than the fact that he still gets under your skin. If he is such a deplorable a-hole as you suggest, he really won't care.
> 
> ...


I have to hand it to you, yours has been the most lucid voice I've heard.

My contention, as always, is that the only person involved in this the POSOM and his conscience. No one else involved or impacted in any way. Your point is well made, though.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Ok, just one more attempt to soothe the kind, gentle and empathetic.

If someone tells a performer to "break a leg", do they intend to convey that literal sentiment? Of course not.

If I tell POSOM I hope his daughter meets a man just like him, do I really want her to fall to that fate? Of course not. The obvious inference is for him to realize that he would not want someone to behave toward his daughter the way he has behaved toward other women. Is this without benefit?

If you cannot grasp, or still believe there is something malicious in that, I'm at a loss.

Maybe the message is just hitting too close to home for some.


----------



## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Last time I checked, "I hope your daughter screws an a-hole like yourself" is not a commonly known idiom. 

I think Forest, you are missing the point. Those arguing against any reference to his daughter aren't doing so because they think it will cause her any harm, but like I said above, she was an innocent in the situation, as as such shouldn't even be referenced in anything that has to do with the matter. 

To put it simply... Do what you want, but leave her, her name, and any reference to her out of any revenge you feel you need. Doing anything different is dropping you to a lower level. Be a bigger person than that.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Forest said:


> Ok, just one more attempt to soothe the kind, gentle and empathetic.
> 
> If someone tells a performer to "break a leg", do they intend to convey that literal sentiment? Of course not.
> 
> ...


I think people 'get' what you mean Forest. But if I was OM and you sent me a card that said 'hope your daughter doesn't meet a man like you' I'd scratch my head, say "Whatevs" and throw the card in the bin.

It would have zero effect on me and I doubt it would have much effect on him either.
He might even save the card as evidence in an RO application, "look he's making veiled threats against my daughter."

Personally I think you've put the wind up him, I'd leave it now until you post him on Cville, then send links to his colleagues, family etc.


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Forest said:


> I question why you think it is helpful to post talk like this. Your comments are just crude talk to try and grind away and someone you disagree with. They don't make you sound tough, if that was the goal. You want to discuss you wife's pubic region on here? Ridiculous and childish.
> 
> If you don't like it, say you disagree, or something else adult and intelligent to defend your position. All that other crap you said is straight out of a Jr. High bathroom.


You missed the point, which is that to him what happened was a long time ago.

You having a beef with him now 20yrs after the fact is rather ridiculous.

I have a habit of typing exactly what is in my head, say what is in there too, so don't get uptight about it


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Dumb idea. Leave it at that. We are worried that you even think in these terms.


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Forest said:


> I won't, however, wish you ill they way you have my spouse. A repentant spouse, one who has made atonement, is deserving that courtesy in my book.





jim123 said:


> EI is not wishing ill will on your spouse, she is trying to prevent you from doing something stupid that causes that to happen.
> 
> You have already approached OM three times. He can already get an RO against you.
> 
> Whether or you intend the letter as a threat, the law will not take any chances. You have already gone to his office so a judge will be concerned regarding you intentions once you invoke his daughter.


Forest,

I am completely at a loss as to how you deduced that I wished ill upon your wife. Everything that I have posted here has been 100% to the contrary. 

I am wishing ill upon no one. I am suggesting that you concentrate your efforts on rebuilding your marriage with your, (in your own words) repentant spouse, who has made atonement, and is deserving of that courtesy. 

It is my heartfelt belief that if the xAP is not feeling remorseful, repentant, or apologetic after 20 years, that there is NOTHING you could possibly say to make him have a change of heart. If he is, now, twice divorced, and you know that he cheated in his first marriage, there is a strong likelihood that he is a serial cheater. That type of individual may even get a kick out of seeing you so worked up after all of these years. I assume he has no idea that you only recently learned of the infidelity. I would be damned before I would give any AP the opportunity to have his ego fed at my expense. 

On the other hand, if he were remorseful and repentant, then I don't believe,* I KNOW*, that there would be NOTHING anyone could say to make him feel any worse than he already does. This much, I know for sure. 

Today is the day before Easter! I don't know anything about your faith, but I assume that you and your family will be celebrating tomorrow. Perhaps with a big dinner and extended family, as well. I suggest that you forget about revenge, at least for today, and tomorrow, log off of TAM, (yes, I do know that it is highly addictive) go find your remorseful wife, whom you love, and wish to successfully reconcile with, wrap your arms around her, and spend the rest of this weekend relishing in and adoring one another. 

It works for us!  

Take care, Forest, reconciliation is not easy and you are still very early in the game. You will have many ups and downs, as will your wife. Keep your eye on the prize..... That would be the health, happiness, and success, of you, your wife, your family, and your relationship..... Time is far too precious to waste it focusing on the negative. 

Happy Easter!!! 

P.S. Thanks for having my back, Jim! I appreciate it very much!


----------



## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

do what makes you feel better some people really have no idea the pain your in. but remember your marriage well never be same.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Forest said:


> I have.
> 
> She has faced the music, accepted responsibility, and made atonement.
> 
> Like I said, revenge ain't for everyone. He's too cowardly to face me, so for this can either laugh at his own creepiness, or forgive me. Move on, be the bigger man, all that.


 This is the perfect reason why I believe that cheating is a deal breaker and once the deed is done, then keep on trucking down the road and don't look in the rear view mirror.

This happened twenty years ago and that means that this guy has been sticking in your craw all this time. 

Why? If you really wanted a clear mind, you would have made a serious change in your life and dumped the lady and moved on but this has been on your mind for two decades. How happy could you possibly be when you have this thing still on your mind?

Before you or anyone comes down on me, let me say that I'm happy for you and anyone else that had more guts than me to fix their marriage and stick it out because it's a hell of a sacrifice to make but my only problem is having that incident every once in a while rearing it's ugly head and starting up something that no one wants to remember.

I've been on the receiving end of betrayal and it took a couple times to learn a lesson.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

By your admission your wife is doing everything to make up to you and facilitate the R. You choosing to focus on the OM is you allowing the OM to dig into you again. *The only person that you can really change is yourself.*


*Forest when are you going to quit thinking about revenge and start doing what needs to be done so you can get better? *You know exactly what you can be working on and your specific statement about what you can work on is reprinted below




> *By Forest*
> In the end, I'm just a grudge holder; self-righteous, indignant, and full of resentment. Why should I be the one to suffer from her actions? The old "why me?".


*Stop avoiding the main issue that you can do right now that will get you better.*


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Forest:

It was your wife who betrayed you and lied to you for 20 years, not this guy. If you want revenge you should be thinking of taking revenge on your wife IMO. a few more thoughts:
-- yes this guy may well be a POS. Then what did your wife see in him? Why did she decide to have a year long affair with him? I.e. it takes a POS to know (biblically) a POS IMO. if you have concerns about a person's character you should focus on that of your wife IMO.
-- your wife was 25, an adult. She wasn't' raped. She chose to have sex with thus guy 50, 100 or however many times over the course of a year. Stop using language that makes her a victim. You are the victim not her.
-- you should seek out IC to try to understand what the best thing for you to do is. The MC is only interested in saving your marriage, NOT you per se.
-- don't suppress your anger. Anger might be the only way you have to feel and express the pain you are going through, at least for now. Control it perhaps. Do not bury it or you run the risk of waking up one morning in a deep depression IMO.


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

sammy7111 said:


> do what makes you feel better *some people* really have no idea the pain your in. *but remember your marriage well never be same.*



You are so right about that, sammy. Because, there is no way, on God's green Earth, that I would have EVER gone back to the marriage, that ours had become, waaaaaaay before my affair ever began. After 28 years of a marriage, that had progressively been getting worse and worse, our marriage has NEVER BEEN BETTER! :smthumbup:

And, though, I'm fully aware that your comment was meant to be an unkind dig (because, *some people*, on TAM, seem to think that they are entitled to take shots at former WS's,) your dig has no bearing on the actual state of my marriage..... or any other marriage. It is not for you to make defining declarations about others' marriages, any more than they can about yours. 

Another favorite quote of mine:

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them.” -Dalai Lama ...

My affair hurt B1, terribly. B1 had hurt me, terribly, as well, before my affair. Neither of our behaviors justified the others'. After a great deal of thought, discussion, counseling, and time, we, together, made the decision that we would, both, put 100% of our efforts into improving ourselves, helping one another heal, and into building a new marriage. 

So, again, you're right, our marriage will never be the same. Our marriage, now, exceeds every expectation, hope, or desire that I never dared to dream.


----------



## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

ei that's right it is a dream it will allways be in his mind. and he will never truly trust you again. he may say he does but its still there. and as for as a marriage being better after affair that's a dream to but hope the best for youll


----------



## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

sammy7111 said:


> ei that's right it is a dream it will allways be in his mind. and he will never truly trust you again. he may say he does but its still there. and as for as a marriage being better after affair that's a dream to but hope the best for youll


Sammy7111 I hate to break it to you but our marriage is in fact far better than pre affair, it is better then it was on day one. I am a different man, a emotionally healthy man, a man who now feels and expresses those feelings. No, the affair didn't creat a better marriage, but it did tear down walls and afterwards my wife and I created a better marriage. I absolutely trust her and no it's not always on my mind. Oh, I have my bad moments, but they don't compare to the overall happiness of my life and my marriage.

I do not know your story at all, I don't come here much at all anymore, but EI was upset earlier and that doesn't happen much anymore, So I logged on to see what was bothering her. When people proclaim they know our lives and our marriage and act like it's not good, never will be etc. it is frustrating to her because she knows different, as do I.

I am happier then I have been in as long as I can remember. Out marriage pre-A was just awful, life was awful, and now it's not. It's amazing, and my love and trust are through the roof. I know you want to believe it can't be, well, I am telling you it can be and is. It wasn't easy, I'll give you that, it hurt like hell too, but we worked hard on this R, pouring our hearts and souls into it and it absolutely paid off.

I already know this will settle nothing in you but that doesn't concern me at all. It lets EI know I am here for her, I love her, and I have her back.

Enough said, back to watching the Ten Commandments, love that movie and love EI. Life is good and as my signature says I want happiness, and I have it, we have it.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Clearly TAM needs to recruit more members from the rebel South.


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Forest said:


> Clearly TAM needs to recruit more members from the rebel South.


:iagree:


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

B1 said:


> I already know this will settle nothing in you but that doesn't concern me at all. It lets EI know I am here for her, I love her, and I have her back.
> 
> Enough said, back to watching the Ten Commandments, love that movie and love EI. Life is good and as my signature says I want happiness, and I have it, we have it.



Here's one more reason, in a rapidly growing list, that I love you so much! Thank you for loving me the most, when I deserved it the least. Thank you for meeting me where I am, every single day, and for allowing me to do the same for you. Thank you for believing in me, when I didn't even know if I could believe in myself. Thank you for "us." Thank you for striving every day to be the best man, husband, and father that you can be and for choosing to share it all with me. 

I love you, B1! 

Sorry about the thread jack, Forest.


----------



## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Revenge is like fine wine. 
It must be aged to perfection. 
And it is something for those, that are truly ruthless. 

Like some people have posted on here, banging this guy's daughter then dropping her on cold ice would be the ultimate middle finger to his face. 
But since you reconciled, I imagine your wife won't like this idea. 
And it requires you to emotionally torment a young woman with no regard to her. 
And if you have kids...I imagine that won't go over well. 


I am not, nor will I EVER be the person to tell someone to not get revenge or chase it. 
But its costs were monumental. And not just financial ones. 
So make sure you factor in everything when you go for revenge. 

If you want to really show this guy up, go all out. But make sure you can deal with all the costs that come along with it. Otherwise, learn to let go.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Originally Posted by sammy7111 *
> ei that's right it is a dream it will allways be in his mind. and he will never truly trust you again. he may say he does but its still there. and as for as a marriage being better after affair that's a dream to but hope the best for youll


*Sammy7111
You do not know what is in B1’s mind!*


As far as B1 trusting EI, do you know that they are going to renew their marriage in just a few months? Do you know that B1 has come to EI’s defense many times when she was attacked on this TAM forum? B1 did this in the mist of his greatest pain because he does love EI even when she hurt him to the bone. EI loves B1 and is an example of how a WS should respond when they have true remorse. In addition, EI has forgiven B1 for his abuse and they both have demonstrated for all to see what real love is and how much can be gained in two years of R that has love as a base.

As B1 has said, his post will not settle anything in you, but was kind enough to ignore your ignorance. I am not as nice as
B1 and I get a little tired of people like you making declarations about someone else that you know almost nothing about. Furthermore, you try and spread your negative pessimistic view of trust and marriage without you producing any information. If you have read this forum for the last several years you would have seen that EI and B1 have proven time and time again that *B1 and EI have trust and a marriage that is better.*


I do not know you but I would not be surprised that you want to spread your negative pessimistic view because your own life reflects that. If you really knew EI you would know that she would be the first to help you if needed even though you upset her with your pessimistic comments. I am not as nice as EI. 
Forest, the OP is in a lot of pain and is looking for real hope and experinced posts and your negative ignorant statements will not do him much good at all.

Ei posted a saying by someone that is a lot smarter than you and has a lot more wisdom about life than you ever will. Even though you have done the opposite of this saying I am going to reprint it for those that are smart enough to learn. Here is the quote reprinted below



> Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them.” -Dalai Lama ...


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Just an FYI, I'm going to have to close the thread for 8 hours at midnite so a hazmat crew can clean up the mess left by all the bleeding hearts.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Nice


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I achieved all the revenge I ever needed by living well and never looking back 

As for the x and her other guy the karma bus and regret trailer has run them both over, and then backed up over them one more time.


----------



## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

im sorry if I upset her but shes trying to tell someone that's been betrayed how they need to feel when shes never been the betrayed she was the betrayer. if shes never been in his shoes then how does she know what hes feeling and whats best for him? his world just got turned upside down. I personally don't believe you can total r but if you can more power to you.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Sammy7111*
> im sorry if I upset her but shes trying to tell someone that's been betrayed how they need to feel when shes never been the betrayed she was the betrayer.* if shes never been in his shoes then how does she know what hes feeling and whats best for him?* his world just got turned upside down. I personally don't believe you can total r but if you can more power to you


*I have been in his shoes and EI is SPOT ON!!*


----------



## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

your not him


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

sammy7111 said:


> im sorry if I upset her but shes trying to tell someone that's been betrayed how they need to feel when shes never been the betrayed she was the betrayer. if shes never been in his shoes then how does she know what hes feeling and whats best for him? his world just got turned upside down. I personally don't believe you can total r but if you can more power to you.


EI is not telling Forest how to feel. She is trying to prevent Forest from doing something very stupid.

He is letting his anger get the best of him in the very unhealthy way.


----------



## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

Forest said:


> Yeah, revenge is a topic most feel should be avoided. Denying it will not make it go away, though.
> 
> 20 years ago a man 8.5 years older than my 25 year old wife seduced her thru their work relationship, despite the fact that both were married, and my wife had a toddler at home. There is not enough forgiveness and light in this world that will ever erase my hatred for him.
> 
> ...


Forest,

In your other post you told the affair was about 1 year long. Seduction might be ONS. At the end your wife quitsthe job which means she clearly undestood the situation. Do you belive she was a naive victim? While OM used his work position,to influence her however, she had a choice to report him and fight him or quit the job. Instead she had 1 year affair,

Please leave kids outside your revenge scenarios - try to target OM directly.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Threads like this absolutely frustrate and bewilder me. I hoped for better when I opened it up, but all bets are off when we are talking to a BS. 

In my opinion, as a former BS, revenge is a pointless idea. Move on and let it go.

It is obvious the issue lies between your wife and you, however, you don't seem interested in dealing with it. Here's a thought, if you accepted what happened and trusted your wife the OM would not be a significant issue. Try dealing with the issues between your wife and you, and then see how you feel. 

The daughter? Are you f*cking kidding me? Grow up and be a man. A person's child is always, always, always off-limits. If I was the OM and you messed with my daughter, I would end you. Jail can have me after that because I'd never have to worry about you messing with my daughter again. Still seem like a cool idea? Ridiculous.


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> Threads like this absolutely frustrate and bewilder me. I hoped for better when I opened it up, but all bets are off when we are talking to a BS.
> 
> In my opinion, as a former BS, revenge is a pointless idea. Move on and let it go.
> 
> ...


I agree with the statement highlighted in blue and it sounds like he's trying to do so, although some residual anger obviously exists.

I am a little confused by your post though. In your second statement, you say that revenge is pointless but then go on to speak of revenge if someone messed with your daughter. You've completely contradicted yourself. On the one hand, you are willing to let the OM slide in the case of the family wrecking affair but go all internet tough guy with regard to anyone messing with your daughter. That's a mixed message. So which guy are you really? I might prefer to take the course of ending the OM under either scenario, which may not be the correct course for my overall emotional health, but at least I'd be consistent.

I think what people who have been wronged, or in this case, betrayed, are looking for is justice, as Conan aptly put it. They want to see the violators suffer consequences for their actions. I believe that Forest sees that from his WW but not from the OM. While he's certainly not as culpable as she is when it comes to breaking their vows, he isn't without fault in the matter. He wants to see OM also suffer for his actions. It's quite likely he has for the no doubt chit life he's probably lived but that just "don't feed the bulldog" as my friend likes to say.


----------



## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

'Consequences' is just a more palatable way of describing revenge. All us nice BS are supposed to neither want revenge nor seek it. It isn't 'good' for us apparently. It's even unhealthy. Like it or not it's there. 

Every BS on here is told to expose OM/OW. "Consequences". And what BS doesn't feel a certain satisfaction when after exposure they find out for example that the spouse of OM/OW is filing for divorce. Consequences? Revenge? It's all in the mix.

I was just hoping Forest that you might find a more immediate and perhaps more effective way for OM to bear some 'consequences'. 

This thread might be more constructive if posters could suggest other perhaps more effective and immediate ways to create consequences for this particular OM. 

Tell us something about him so we can workshop this. There's got to be a way. Just have to find it.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Words are, for the most part, ineffective. He'll probably have a nice laugh and do what he does best.
> 
> Ever thought of seducing his daughter and then sending a card with a photo maybe? " Congrats, your daughter knows how to spread em!!"


*Why stoop to his sordid level? The only thing that it would even remotely prove would be that you were of the same ilk as he!

What kind of redemption is found in that! Besides, that young college daughter of his could also bestow a totally unexpected gift upon you ~ with your luck, it would probably be a rather lovely STD!

Always remember the old Chinese proverb regarding revenge:
*


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

********** said:


> This thread might be more constructive if posters could suggest other perhaps more effective and immediate ways to create consequences for this particular OM.


If you want to stalk him a little and be there beside him at the drive thru it could be fun I suppose ridicule him about what he did in the long and distant past.

Or perhaps you could stick him up on CV with descripts from your WW as to how he was such a predator and pursued her relentlessly into the A with blackmail threats.

They might gain some ground and you could post it on his FB for everyone to see too.

But stick to the facts.

I have very mixed feelings on this having had a good think about it all and I am not so sure on the whole situation TBH.

I can fully empathize with the betrayal, I can understand wanting to get even with OM for his part, for me it is just purely the time scale that holds me back. I got lucky in that he was there ready to be toyed with and driven round the twist as I built up the new imaginary life he was going to have, but for you Forest I struggle with it being 20yrs past and him having moved on from his A with your W, Kind of like "shutting the door after the horse has bolted" kind of thing and in this case that horse is long dead and buried and the stable door has been changed several times since.

I hope you can channel your anger positively and work this out, whilst the OM is a villain he is not the only one.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Forest said:


> Just an FYI, I'm going to have to close the thread for 8 hours at midnite so a hazmat crew can clean up the mess left by all the bleeding hearts.


Translation: I don't like what I'm hearing, so I'll go away for awhile.

Honestly, most people are trying to save you from looking foolish. But if you want to look weak in your wife's eyes by doing something goofy, the have at it Hoss...


----------



## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

Forest said:


> Yeah, revenge is a topic most feel should be avoided. Denying it will not make it go away, though.
> 
> 20 years ago a man 8.5 years older than my 25 year old wife seduced her thru their work relationship, despite the fact that both were married, and my wife had a toddler at home. There is not enough forgiveness and light in this world that will ever erase my hatred for him.
> 
> ...


No matter that you say your wife has suffered "consequences" according to you. It's still not enough is it? You are projecting the justified anger, bitterness and sense of betrayal that you feel for her, onto an innocent party. The child of the POSOM.

For you to even express and hope that she meets a man just like her father, is to want that for her. 

I am a BS, many times over in fact. I would _never_ want any harm to come to the innocent children of the POS's that my WS betrayed me for.

You need to face the fact that your sense of anger and rage at your wife is so deep and wide that you may just not be able to come to terms with it without some serious professional help, no matter how remorseful, regretful and sad she apparently is over what she did to you all those years ago.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Translation: I don't like what I'm hearing, so I'll go away for awhile.
> 
> Honestly, most people are trying to save you from looking foolish. But if you want to look weak in your wife's eyes by doing something goofy, the have at it Hoss...


I thought it was obvious that was a joke, but guess not.

Ah, the internet. No one is about to change anyone's mind. Mine hasn't changed. Now I just feel like a Vladimir Putin in a forum full of John Kerry's.


I cannot believe some people still cling to the baseless idea that anyone's child was ever actually involved in this. Strictly a direct shot at one man and his faulty character. I guess I'll be regarded as some kind of dark avenging ghoul around here.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Why stoop to his sordid level? The only thing that it would even remotely prove would be that you were of the same ilk as he!
> 
> What kind of redemption is found in that! Besides, that young college daughter of his could also bestow a totally unexpected gift upon you ~ with your luck, it would probably be a rather lovely STD!
> 
> ...


Alright alright simmer down people. Its not as if I or Forest have acted on this revenge fantasy, besides the revenge he's proposing seems tame compared to what I suggested so stop picking on him.

Forest, I've already made my stand on revenge very clear. If you're up for it, hurt him anyway you legally can.

There's a world of a difference between stating a preference to exact revenge and making a decision. Unless you love the OM(yuck) and I don't suspect you do, taking revenge on him wont require digging too graves or living in regret for the rest of your life. The OM certainly won't be expecting you and won't know what hit him.

Quite clearly, your wife was but a blimp on the OM's radar. So the real problem is your wife. You speak of atonement, how has she atoned? Has her behavior changed considerably after the affair was revealed as opposed to after she ended it?


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

BjornFree said:


> You speak of atonement, how has she atoned? Has her behavior changed considerably after the affair was revealed as opposed to after she ended it?


Oh yeah, I've detailed it in another thread, but she really changed, got her doctor involved, and made herself into a different person after she ended the affair. It was a joint effort, re-starting type thing for both of us.

Problem was, she thought I had concluded thru intuition that this affair had happened, and did not want to discuss it, just move on. Many here scoff at the idea, but they don't know the whole story, or us. I understand her premise, while telling her it was all faulty and still deceptive. Has been our biggest argument for the last 5 months.


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Coming to terms with betrayal takes time. 5 months is when the shock starts to wear off and you start getting angry. She has to be supportive, in your eyes this affair happened 5 months ago and not 20 years ago. She has to accept that and work with you or you're marriage is going to go downhill. 

As for the OM, if you're like me you'd make a calculated strike and then go in for seconds. No one deserves mercy especially not some sh!thead who..well as far as he was concerned you and the toddler were just collateral damage in his quest for pvssy, that is if he thought about you at all. 

I wouldnt be surprised if your own wife didn't think about you and the kid cos she was too busy..thats the sad reality of all the married people who have cheated. Learning to accept that person as your wife/husband is a difficult and bitter pill to swallow. You can always walk away. Are you children still at home or have they flown the nest?


----------



## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

most people are not getting it you said you was sending it to him not his daughter so I don't get way people keep think the daughter is even getting involved. just remember his scum and don't let the revenge take over you,


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Forest, I see that you're just venting a bit. I see that you're trying to relieve a lot of frustration and make the OM pay for his transgressions. I will not condemn you or encourage you. What I will say is that you have already had your revenge. You are still married. Your wife by all accounts is a good woman who loves you very much. She accepted responsibility for her actions and changed her outlook so that you and she would have a happy life together. Yes, maybe she should have told you years ago but not telling you and keeping this secret, while not excusable is certainly understandable. What she did do was take action and that is what we all here stress time and time again. You have already had your revenge. *You have lived well.* Leave revenge up to karma and even more leave it up to God. God has the ultimate tool for exacting vengeance. He is the judge for where we will all spend eternity.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

bfree said:


> Forest, I see that you're just venting a bit. I see that you're trying to relieve a lot of frustration and make the OM pay for his transgressions. I will not condemn you or encourage you. *What I will say is that you have already had your revenge. You are still married. Your wife by all accounts is a good woman who loves you very much. *She accepted responsibility for her actions and changed her outlook so that you and she would have a happy life together. Yes, maybe she should have told you years ago but not telling you and keeping this secret, while not excusable is certainly understandable. What she did do was take action and that is what we all here stress time and time again. You have already had your revenge. *You have lived well.* Leave revenge up to karma and even more leave it up to God. God has the ultimate tool for exacting vengeance. He is the judge for where we will all spend eternity.


I dont know if that's revenge. But he sure did not had the wife/person that he thought he had. And moving forward, he'll never get back the innocence he thought they had.


----------



## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

Revenge is a dish best served cold.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Forest said:


> I thought it was obvious that was a joke, but guess not.
> 
> Ah, the internet. No one is about to change anyone's mind. Mine hasn't changed. *Now I just feel like a Vladimir Putin in a forum full of John Kerry's.*
> 
> ...


You got it all wrong. To look like a Vladimir Putin, you would have to do something pretty big to the OM. You, OTOH, will look like the dorky hall monitor trying to tell the kids to stop running in the hall if you send the guy a note like you are planning to. Maybe you have a comprehension problem or something. Aside from appearing weak with the note, you ARE putting way too much energy into the OM. If you are still having issues that need to be resolved, take it up with your wife. She's the one that made promises to remain faithful to YOU. 

Like I said earlier, if the OM never slept with your wife, but you found out he was sleeping around with married women, would you even care to devote any time or energy on him?


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Walk away every time a PA is involved.

This has been OP's every day for 20 years.


----------



## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I think revenge in that situation is sweet, even after some time has passed, but the original suggestion sounds kind of lame. If you can't do any better than sending the OM a smarmy card about his daughter 20 years after the affair don't bother.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

The lack of reading comprehension around here is staggering. I've detailed right in this thread the other steps I've taken, and elaborated at length that this outing is not about domination, but character evaluation on the part of the OM. 

Also, how anyone can believe I've know about this or lived with it for 20 years after I've repeated and repeated I discovered only recently is really failing to understand what you read.


How about if I changed the sentiment to "I hope you daughter NEVER meets a man like you."

Everyone happy then, or still misguided enough to feel somehow his daughter is still being used?

Too complicated?


----------



## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Sorry based on the word "patient" in the title I assumed this was something you'd been waiting on for quite some time. I admit I did kind of skim read as I just got off work and was exhausted. How is sending him a letter evaluating _his _character? How is that revenge? Is he supposed to get the letter, cry, and open up to you about his feelings and how hurt he is?

You want sweet revenge? Be patient and a way to cost him his job. Be patient and find a way to hurt his lifestyle. Be patient and find a way to damage his relationship with people he cares about. Hell find a way to humiliate him. But a letter? Whether you found out 20 years ago or 20 seconds ago, waiting years to send him a tongue in cheek letter about his daughter is still lame. If I was in the OM's shoes I'd read that letter, lol and toss it in the trash.

Be patient and come up with a better idea. Good luck.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Jasel said:


> Sorry based on the word "patient" in the title I assumed this was something you'd been waiting on for quite some time. I admit I did kind of skim read as I just got off work and was exhausted. How is sending him a letter evaluating _his _character? How is that revenge? Is he supposed to get the letter, cry, and open up to you about his feelings and how hurt he is?
> 
> You want sweet revenge? Be patient and a way to cost him his job. Be patient and find a way to hurt his lifestyle. Be patient and find a way to damage his relationship with people he cares about. Hell find a way to humiliate him. But a letter? Whether you found out 20 years ago or 20 seconds ago, waiting years to send him a tongue in cheek letter about his daughter is still lame. If I was in the OM's shoes I'd read that letter, lol and toss it in the trash.
> 
> Be patient and come up with a better idea. Good luck.


All that you've mention is also being dealt with, just not on a message board forum. 

I felt the idea of confronting him with his own misdeeds in a fashion he might actually relate to might get his attention, where other methods would fail.

The patient part is waiting for the time when it would make the most impact, likely in a few years.


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Forest said:


> All that you've mention is also being dealt with, just not on a message board forum.
> 
> I felt the idea of confronting him with his own misdeeds in a fashion he might actually relate to might get his attention, where other methods would fail.
> 
> The patient part is waiting for the time when it would make the most impact, likely in a few years.


I completely understand your desire to make this POSOM face the music and confront his demons. But what you fail to realize is that he can't. You don't understand his mindset because you have morals, you have honor. But nothing you say or do to him is going to register with him. He has no moral center. He has no scruples. He can no more comprehend your "goodness" than you can his "badness." Put your thoughts to better use.

_Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words._ Proverbs 23:9

_Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him._ Proverbs 26:4


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*You've got to largely take into exception that while he, as the OM, either willingly or was pushed into sleeping with your W, that conversely, she made the very same conscious decision to sleep with him, without ever mentioning it or discussing it with you!

That adds up to two guilty parties! Is equitable punishment going to be meted out to both? Please remember that you are not God ~and as such, leave that to Him, as is extolled in** Romans 12:19: "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. I will repay!"*


----------



## Boricha (Sep 29, 2013)

The OP just found out 5 months ago about his wife's affair that happened 20 years ago and was able to go the AP's workplace to confront him?


----------



## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

Forest said:


> Oh yeah, I've detailed it in another thread, but she really changed, got her doctor involved, and made herself into a different person after she ended the affair. It was a joint effort, re-starting type thing for both of us.
> 
> Problem was, she thought I had concluded thru intuition that this affair had happened, and did not want to discuss it, just move on..


Here is the root of the problem and your continuing rage.

Instead of accepting responsibility for not owning up to you all those years ago, she's making out its your fault. YOU should have known about the affair. She didn't HAVE to own up, because by intuitive osmosis it should have filtered through to you. The fact that it didn't is down to you entirely. 

So she's still lying and being unaccountable.

I don't believe for a minute she thought you knew and didn't want to talk about it. She just didn't want to tell you plain and simple.

If she cannot own her deception there is no hope for your recovery from this.


----------



## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Bfree and Jasel make excellent points. 

Cheaters happily justify betraying their spouse by blaming them e.g. 'he/she doesn't pay me any attention anymore so I found someone who does'. And, 'I deserve to be appreciated and given attention', while never thinking they might be doing anything to hurt the marriage. 

On reading the letter OM is likely to blame YOU & HIS WIFE and think, "Well he couldn't make his wife happy and my wife couldn't make me happy. Both deserved what they got." Sadly that's the way they are wired. 

However, if it gives you satisfaction then write the letter. He won't even tell his daughter so she's in no danger. I expect he'll scoff at it and bin it. Proper consequences will come via other avenues as Jasel said. You said you are doing other things. What are those?

But there's something a lot more important than OM. Did your WS honestly believe that you would remain silent about a POSOM who was sleeping with her? That you wouldn't want to confront him as you did when you found out? I have NO doubt that you would have also told OM's wife. What man wouldn't want to do all that? 

I find her excuse for lying almost impossible to believe. She is pulling the wool over your eyes again and is getting away with it. Most of your anger is directed at OM. She has even put it back on you, 'you knew but just didn't talk about it'. Are you kidding me? Frankly she is manipulating you.

She hasn't had any real consequence either. I don't know what you can do exactly but this needs to be addressed IMO. I think this fact is also in the mix of emotions deep down in your subconscious. 

On my thread many posters made me cross and some made me uncomfortable meaning they hit a nerve. But they were concerned enough to take the time to advise me. I woke up to the fact that I myself was sanitising, even excusing things WS did. I think you risk doing the same. OM was much older and seduced her. . . for a year as someone said? You also seem accepting of the reason she gave you for lying at the time. 

Your WS's reaction is to me the most important aspect of your thread - by a country mile. It's the one with the most long-term consequences for your marriage. 

Let me tell you my story. I fell out of love with my WS in the end because although he did ALL the right things like your WS, he NEVER acknowledged the truth of what happened at the time and tried to sanitise it for 4 years. 

Then one day I found some old emails I hadn't translated at the time. I don't speak his language. Lo and behold it turns out he held a candle for OW for YEARS going back to when they were at univ. But she was with his best friend. When that broke up after univ he asked her out but she said no. Very 'off' IMO being his best friend's ex. He even claimed in the past he wouldn't do that when a friend of ours did it. Huh! 

Then OW went to a different country for a couple of years and he wrote her love letters. Sheesh! We're now about 5+ years out from when he first met her. After that, every year EVEN AFTER HE MET ME! he sent her a couple of emails asking her to email him and that he would like to meet her sometime. I was stunned when I found out all that. He had led me to believe that she was an 'acquaintance' from univ that he had gone to visit together with some of thier old univ colleagues. He went to visit her, alone! The R we had been doing was wiped out in an instant. *I also fell out of love with him in that moment.* Trickle truth (and it wasn't even that because *I* found out, he didn't tell me) is worse than the original lie as is more lying on top of the original lie. 

Proceed with caution in your R.

Sorry, I've probably made you cross.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> BY Betrayedagain7
> 
> 
> Here is the root of the problem and your continuing rage.
> ...


Why not read this thread before you come out with your judgments of Forest’s wife?

How many times does Forest have to tell you that his wife is the opposite of what you judged her. Listed below is a few of Foret’s posts about his wife:



> *Quotes of Forest*
> 
> She has faced the music, accepted responsibility, and made atonement.
> 
> ...


Betrayedagain7
Did you read the whole thread?


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Originally Posted by Jasel *
> Sorry based on the word "patient" in the title I assumed this was something you'd been waiting on for quite some time. I admit I did kind of skim read as I just got off work and was exhausted. How is sending him a letter evaluating his character? How is that revenge? Is he supposed to get the letter, cry, and open up to you about his feelings and how hurt he is?
> 
> You want sweet revenge? Be patient and a way to cost him his job. Be patient and find a way to hurt his lifestyle. Be patient and find a way to damage his relationship with people he cares about. Hell find a way to humiliate him. But a letter? Whether you found out 20 years ago or 20 seconds ago, waiting years to send him a tongue in cheek letter about his daughter is still lame. If I was in the OM's shoes I'd read that letter, lol and toss it in the trash.
> ...



Forest

You are spending too much time and energy on revenge


*Forest when are you going to quit thinking about revenge and start doing what needs to be done so you can get permanently better?*


----------



## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> Why not read this thread before you come out with your judgments of Forest’s wife?
> 
> How many times does Forest have to tell you that his wife is the opposite of what you judged her. Listed below is a few of Foret’s posts about his wife:
> 
> ...


Of course I read his thread. 

Did you read my post correctly? 

I was referring to this deception of hers.



> *She said she thought I knew, based on my actions, but didn't want to talk about it. *Was going on during our bad year, then she ended the affair after our "reconcile". Though she denied it at the time, *she thought I knew due to our actions as we reconciled*.




I quite simply don't believe this co*k and bull story about it being his problem, because he didn't intuitively know she had an affair. 

What a cop out and how deceptive of her.


I think on some level Forest is aware of this too, that is why despite her apparent "hard work" he is having a hard time coming to terms with it, is so justifiably angry still and instead of focussing on her because she is being so "supportive, regretful and sorry" about it all he is projecting that rage onto an innocent party. 

He may say he is focussing on the POSOM and he probably is, but wanting that innocent girl to have a man like her father, as a pay back to a POS is horrible. He needs to focus that bitterness and rage where it really belongs.

If you can't see where I'm coming from with that, then too bad, I still stand by my post. 

If she did admit to deception around _this particular 
statement of hers_ elsewhere in his thread and I missed it, then I apologise.


----------



## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

Forest, I think harboring thoughts of revenge is very natural. Personally, I wouldn't involve the family members, but it's not my recipe, neither will I be seated at the table while all the courses are dished out.

Any man who effs with another man's family deserves whatever hell can be rained down upon him. In addition, any man knows when he's messing with another man's wife that there's a real good chance his long-term health may be seriously impacted. No sympathy or forgiveness. Ever.

I know just posting this thread and being able to kick around some ideas in the light of day will go a long way toward settling this issue in your heart and mind, so I won't begrudge you your justifiably dark thoughts.

Here's hoping that karma affords you audience with your antagonist, and the opportunity for the laying on of hands, so that ye may heal him of his wicked ways.


----------



## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

EI said:


> My thoughts exactly.  These kind of suggestions make me sick. Yeah, I was the WS. Still....... Anyone suggesting, or encouraging this kind of behavior really needs to check themselves.
> 
> Just as those who commit adultery are solely responsible for their actions, with no one to blame but themselves, so are those who seek revenge on completely innocent parties.
> 
> Frankly, I'm disturbed by just now much personal information the OP appears to know about the AP's daughter.


This thread is a reminder that when someone chooses to engage in an affair, they are not only risking themselves, often they are putting their family out there as well, children, parents, siblings can all be at risk... pets.. hide the bunny.


----------



## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

********** said:


> Bfree and Jasel make excellent points.
> 
> Cheaters happily justify betraying their spouse by blaming them e.g. 'he/she doesn't pay me any attention anymore so I found someone who does'. And, 'I deserve to be appreciated and given attention', while never thinking they might be doing anything to hurt the marriage.
> 
> ...


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Mr Blunt said:


> Forest
> 
> You are spending too much time and energy on revenge
> 
> ...


You (again) are right. Not sure how far out of DDay you are, but far enough to have your eyesight back, for sure. Its is refreshing to see you are capable of interpreting data so well.

Still not out of the revenge-state, but at least its generated some lively conversation. I may start a thread at the Men's Clubhouse for myself, White Raven, and other "little brothers" to share the joys of growing up at the mercy of barbaric big brothers.

On the Putin comment, for someone else, I meant that you've got Putin doing something obviously out of line with civilized society, with all of the Western world telling him he's wrong, but he doesn't listen.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Yep, BURNT! **********'s post first paragraph is rather prophetic!

*Whenever a "wayward" cheats ~ they lie(No pun intended), largely to the marital vows and to all who witnessed them, including God!

*By absence of informing their spouse about it ~ they lie!

* When cross-examined about their sordid activity ~ they lie!

*And whenever explaining normal timelines ~ they lie!

A cheater is little more than a magnanimous liar of simply unheralded proportions! They would much rather lie when the absolute truth would sound better!*


----------



## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Yep, BURNT! **********'s post first paragraph is rather prophetic!
> 
> *Whenever a "wayward" cheats ~ they lie(No pun intended), largely to the marital vows and to all who witnessed them, including God!
> *By absence of informing their spouse about it ~ they lie!
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

Do you have a son? Do you hope he never meets a woman like your wife?


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Do you have a son? Do you hope he never meets a woman like your wife?


No. If so, yes.


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

russell28 said:


> This thread is a reminder that when someone chooses to engage in an affair, they are not only risking themselves, often they are putting their family out there as well, children, parents, siblings can all be at risk... pets.. hide the bunny.


I agree with you 100%, russell! Did you think that I would not?


----------



## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

EI said:


> I agree with you 100%, russell! Did you think that I would not?


I was just adding to your note that even thought a WS is solely responsible for their actions, with no one to blame but themselves, they are putting others at risk and it's not just about themselves as they'd like to fool themselves into thinking.

I didn't mean it as a shot at you or anything, just adding to your thought.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

By the way, once again: I never mentioned seeking revenge on any innocent party. ONE PARTY only, the POSOM, would be exposed to anything I advocated. Inferring that anyone else would be impacted would be like telling someone they look like a cow, then interpreting all cows have been innocently targeted.

Oh lord, now I'm going to be accused of calling someone a cow.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Forest, I think crafting a post card proclaiming your hope that the OM's daughter ends up with a guy just like the OM is brilliant. Waiting a couple years the girl graduates from college, and then sending it will be a great move too. 

I hope you get out of life what you deserve.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Forest, I don't disagree at all. I think its perfectly ok to send that to the OM. Your anger for him is certainly justified.

But should be no more than for your wife. In your first post you said he seduced her. To me that says he preyed on her and there was nothing she could really do.

Whatever you do, please don't make excuses for your wife if that was your intention in the first post. She willingly did what she did. The OM doesn't have some special power to get faithful women to cheat.


----------



## In The Dark (Aug 24, 2011)

Forest,
I think bfree said it the best. The OM does not think like you. YOU would read a letter like that and reflect on the things you had done. HE will read it and it won't affect him the same way. In fact, you would never know how it affects him because you will hear nothing back from him. Silence. You won't know if he read it and it changed his heart. You won't know if he read it, laughed and threw it in the trash. You won't know if the US Postal service misdelivered it to someplace in Idaho. 

The high road is a lonely road. I hope you take it and concentrate on your wife and your marriage. I'm glad you are doing well on that end.


----------



## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

Forest I have no idea how you writing a snarky comment to the OM about his daughter morphed into you being a villain of Hannibal Lecter proportions, but it sure was funny to watch unfold.


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

In another thread I talked about revenge being an available response when the pain caused by another is not empathized. In a perfect world the OM would realize his trespass and honorably fall on his sword. As others suggest, your love for your WW is allowing you to shift a large measure of your wrath to the OM. You could burn the OM to smoldering ashes, and that will not repair the rift your WW created between you. 

Here's what I suggest: Write the letter you want to send to the OM and share it with your WW. She needs to fully acknowledge the pain she has caused while validating your feelings. There is nothing more remorseful for a WS than accepting they alone caused this soul killing pain to another ... that there is no justification, there is no defense ... they did this by choice. This requires a humility and vulnerability most WS cannot muster until some months after DD (if ever). And then you need to decide how amends will be made during R or D.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Nostromo said:


> Forest I have no idea how you writing a snarky comment to the OM about his daughter morphed into you being a villain of Hannibal Lecter proportions, but it sure was funny to watch unfold.


It is the 21st Century depth of reasoning deficit. If not served up on a platter, some cannot process it.

Mike Judge could probably describe it better. Obviously will get worse before better.


----------



## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

Forest said:


> It is the 21st Century depth of reasoning deficit. If not served up on a platter, some cannot process it.
> 
> Mike Judge could probably describe it better. Obviously will get worse before better.


It's got Electrolytes!:smthumbup:


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> Words are, for the most part, ineffective. He'll probably have a nice laugh and do what he does best.
> 
> Ever thought of seducing his daughter and then sending a card with a photo maybe? " Congrats, your daughter knows how to spread em!!"


What a TERRIBLE idea! That would make Forest not only no better than the OM, but in my opinion worse. We have no right to take "revenge" on those who had no part in any of this. The daughter did not chose her father.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Originally Posted by Mr Blunt *
> Forest
> You are spending too much time and energy on revenge
> 
> ...









*Forest I am over 25 years after DDay and have had a successful R.* I follow your thread because I Think your wife is sincerely remorseful and is doing every thing that she can. In addition, you have a lot of qualities that I like and feel that you have a much better chance than 50/50 to be a winner. Frankly, I have read some threads that I think have a slim chance of being a winner and sometimes I think Slim has left the building with Elvis. Those threads sometimes just love to bash the hell out of the WS even after the WS is on the ground groveling.


I know you are not out of the revenge state and I understand that state because I can vividly remember 25 years ago. I am not condemning you I am just trying to get you to get ahead on doing what would be a lot better for you, your children, and your wife. *When I was in the revenge state I turned that motivation and energy into me doing for ME*. I went back to college, got much more involved with my parents, sister, children, etc, and took a good look at myself to see where I could improve. I found that I could improve in the areas of expressing more compassion and getting my spiritual life in better shape. I was in no way responsible for my wife’s actions it is just that I realized that I could become even better. Besides I needed something positive to keep me away for the negative. The revenge did not get much attention any more and I am still benefitting from my self improvements. When I got better everyone around me got even closer to me including God!


My eyesight is probably a little better than yours or maybe it is just that you have to get a little more bile out of your system. That is alright I just do not want you to put a deep hurt on your wife, your children’s mother as you will regret that when you get further down the road in your R. Your wife is truly remorseful and not like some other WSs that do not do what your wife is doing. I am not telling you that what your wife did is nothing, I know the terrible and permanent damage that infidelity can do and that damage is to the BS and the WS. I think you are a good man and your wife is a good woman that will probably pay in some way for her selfish evil for the rest of her life. She will because she seems like a woman that has a decent conscience.


Even though my wife and I have a good marriage and have for over 20 years, she still cannot accept that she is a very good woman that still has many very considerate qualities. Every time a serious incident happens to the children she thinks it is because of what she did. After 25 years that is nonsense but I can not convince her other wise. Although if you run into the OM I do think that you may kick his AZZ so hard that he will wear his a-hole for a neck tie. However, I also do think that you are venting on some of the other revenge thoughts and I am not shocked by what you have stated nor do I believe that you would hurt the OM’s daughter. *Frankly, if you are venting on other people and things rather than you wife I do applaud you.*




I know you only have 5 months since DDAY but I think you and your wife have the ability to make great strides in the first year and the second year also. *If you have not already you can read the “Reconciliation” thread by B1 and you can see how far he came in the 5 and 6th month. Also read the posts by EI and B1 in 2013 and 2014 and you will see how they coped and how much progress they have made*. I think that their posts in the first year will be more detailed as to where you are at right now. I concentrate more on the years after year one because that is when I was able to do what I knew was right rather than react to my frayed emotions. . I have been challenging you to start doing what can help you rather than give much attention to the early stages of emotional chaos that make it difficult to put rage and revenge away. I am probably trying to rush you too much and not thinking much about the overpowering emotions that are in this first year.



Read what B1 did the first year because that will show you how he got better in just one year and so far ahead in the second year. Right now he is working on him getting to be an even better man for himself, his wife, his children and everyone else.


I can not expect you to see how much better you can be in 5-25 years from now but I am going to keep trying to get you to get a jump start ion the first year. By the way you are doing pretty good right now as you are not letting the eternal WS haters turn you back to turning your rage and revenge on your wife that is trying to do what she can to heal the disgust that she created.


*If you are going to continue in your decision to R I would like to suggest that you read what those that have years of R behind them. Off the top of my head there is Amplexor, Philat, Mr. and Mrs. John Adams and Wazza to name just a few. I know that I left out several so if any of you know the others please name them.*


PS
When ever you can and you see the revenge and other negative thoughts comming your way, RUN FOREST RUN!!!!!


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Blunt, you're a good guy for an tie-dye wearing old hippy.

Maybe the venting, planning, etc is a good way to get mental revenge, then I'll get tired of it all and drop it.

I've been thru situations before that pissed me off so bad I could grind my teeth down, but have forgotten most of them already. I'm sure I'll never forget this, but hopefully the intensity arc is peaking. No one can stay this mad forever.

I appreciate the thought and effort you put out around here, and will refer back to these threads you mentioned. You've got a good memory, hopefully that means the Alzheimers will never get you.


----------



## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

i usually try to keep the quote-slinging to a minimum, but this one has stuck with me for years, ben franklin nailed it:

"what is begun in anger, ends in shame." 

hard to practice sometimes. but man, vengeance, at the end of the day, it's just empty. it's a mask that becomes the face.


----------



## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

That quote can be said another way...What begin in shame can also end in anger...

never forget..."the very same thing that made you laugh...can and will make you cry."


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Quote:
Originally Posted by intuitionoramiwrong 
Do you have a son? Do you hope he never meets a woman like your wife? 







Forest said:


> No. If so, yes.


 Forest:
sorry, am I reading this correctly? 1. you do not have a son. 
2. If you did you would indeed hope that he NEVER meets a woman like your wife.

correct or did you mean the just opposite on #2?


----------



## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

badkarma2013 said:


> That quote can be said another way...What begin in shame can also end in anger...
> 
> never forget..."the very same thing that made you laugh...can and will make you cry."



*When you are young, you cry for Romeo and Juliet.

Then you reach an age, when you say: Oh, their poor parents!!*


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by intuitionoramiwrong
> Do you have a son? Do you hope he never meets a woman like your wife?
> 
> ...



You've got it correct. It may sound cold, but if I had a son, I would not want him to marry a woman like my wife. I would prefer any son to marry a woman without the characteristics that allowed infidelity to occur. 

May be an unreasonably tall order, but its a rhetorical question anyway.


----------



## Alisha1 (Apr 21, 2014)

If revenge was due then yes I would have to say that I could be patient and wait for it.


----------



## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

sounds so true


----------

