# OMW wants to meet my wife



## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

My wife just got email today from the OMW, said she wants to meet her and ask her about their relationship. By relationship i mean ONS and string of email from him that she has never answered. 

For recap, OMW figured out after christmas market. He made it out to his wife that it was my wife who went after him. She came to my house, full of hostility and told me the truth. While i was half frozen and half full of denial, omw kept verbally attacking my wife with deregatory names. My wife couldn't really talk to her because everytime she was about to say something, omw would cut her off. It wasn't just curse words but few times she was actually going to hit her. So my wife showed her emails from him that mentioned omw as ex. She explained that he was ringless so they did what they did. OMW turned to very quiet and then she told her everything

Maybe she just wanted to clarify a few things but i'm worry about her hostility, per dday if i wasn't there i'm sure she'd physically hurt her. My wife is petite and sometimes can't even open jam jar for God's sake. She has told omw everything, so i don't see the point

Should she meet her ?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

With your WWs behavior it is extremely unlikely that there is only one OMW.

Her body has seen more mileage than a race track.

I think the OMW has enough information to go on. She doesn't need to see your wife again.

A licensed mental health professional does need to see your WW however.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

Daniel. said:


> My wife just got email today from the OMW, said she wants to meet her and ask her about their relationship. By relationship i mean ONS and string of email from him that she has never answered.
> 
> For recap, OMW figured out after christmas market. He made it out to his wife that it was my wife who went after him. She came to my house, full of hostility and told me the truth. While i was half frozen and half full of denial, omw kept verbally attacking my wife with deregatory names. My wife couldn't really talk to her because everytime she was about to say something, omw would cut her off. It wasn't just curse words but few times she was actually going to hit her. So my wife showed her emails from him that mentioned omw as ex. She explained that he was ringless so they did what they did. OMW turned to very quiet and then she told her everything
> 
> ...


No offense man....but your wife is stone cold and doesn't care. You should be in counseling for not getting a divorce. But I get it you care for your wife.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> With your WWs behavior it is extremely unlikely that there is only one OMW.


That is possible, but she told me that all person on her list were ringless just like the last one. Guys with ring apparently a no for her


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

Daniel. said:


> That is possible, but she told me that all person on her list were ringless just like the last one. Guys with ring apparently a no for her


So everyone else is alright.....got it....what's her number? I am married but do not wear a ring so I guess that and not being married is OK for her to cheat on you.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

Augusto said:


> No offense man....but your wife is stone cold and doesn't care. You should be in counseling for not getting a divorce. But I get it you care for your wife.


I forgot to explain it in my first post, she did apologize to OMW a lot. She said that had she known that she's a wife not an ex she wouldn't do it, she admitted that she bought his story without question. OMW left with some serious bitter words for her, some that i think my wife truly deserves but compared to her husband gaslighting treatment to her at least my wife told her the truth, backed up with evidences. 

We're still in R, maybe we'll get divorce if it doesn't work but she's still the mother of my child. Off course i care for her


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

Augusto said:


> So everyone else is alright.....got it....what's her number? I am married but do not wear a ring so I guess that and not being married is OK for her to cheat on you.


Ok watch it
I never said that it was ok for her to cheat on me, i'm telling the truth about state of her mind by then to get advice. Those ringless guy off course said that they were divorced or single. her actions were hurtful and like normal person i hate it
You can bring a point without being an *******


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Augusto said:


> So everyone else is alright.....got it....what's her number? I am married but do not wear a ring so I guess that and not being married is OK for her to cheat on you.


Oh come on, no need for this kind of antagonizing. Take it easy.

Having engaged in adultery is bad, both the OP and OP's wife understood this and have accepted it. Just because the OM turned out to be married but was hiding it from OP's wife, doesn't make the adultery any worse. If he was lying to her, and covering it up, then she couldn't have known that he was really married.


Regarding OP's question, no I don't see why she needs to meet up with your wife at this point. I think if she wants to make herself available via e-mail, that would be the caring, prudent thing to do, but nothing more than that. That would show your wife's willingness to take on some of the responsibility for the situation and address it as best she can, without putting herself at risk. She can respond to inquiries that way in her own time. Just my two cents.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Daniel. said:


> Ok watch it
> I never said that it was ok for her to cheat on me, i'm telling the truth about state of her mind by then to get advice. Those ringless guy off course said that they were divorced or single. her actions were hurtful and like normal person i hate it
> You can bring a point without being an *******


He was hooking up with a woman he knew was married. Obviously nothing he says can be trusted. Does your wife know what kind of scumbags she's letting between her legs? Literally the lowest forms of human life.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Daniel. said:


> That is possible, but she told me that all person on her list were ringless just like the last one. Guys with ring apparently a no for her


That's where she draws the line? At least she has standards.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

Daniel. said:


> Ok watch it
> I never said that it was ok for her to cheat on me, i'm telling the truth about state of her mind by then to get advice. Those ringless guy off course said that they were divorced or single. her actions were hurtful and like normal person i hate it
> You can bring a point without being an *******


Sorry man......but I am just seeing a pattern that is not going to change.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

But your W is married and that did not stop her from cheating with a man, married or not. Who cares if OM is married or single. 

Your W is married. Doesn't she see the hypocrisy? Don't you?

What is it about the Betaization of men they have the same scripted response to a cheating spouse. They all don't like it and equally have no response. Then focus on the obviously least important noise to the entire issue at hand. All being lead and managed by the WW. 

Damn... Be the leader of the family. Be a leader of the marriage. You just keep right on responding to all this. You cannot lead from behind. Heck, even cheerleaders lead something.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Dude just some free advice from another dude. This may matter to you.

Read, reread, understand and memorize Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 by Athol Kay. 

You are a classic beta. You think you're doing all the right things. You are doing precisely the wrong things. The book will seek to balance you. You have no alpha and have been completely betaized. 

EVERYTHING you've been taught about women is wrong. When you start reading the book, you will pull away and disagree. This is the blue pill, Neo. You need to take the red pill.

Some call it manning up. It's just finding your balance in a world of anti-testosterone indoctrination.

Before you get the book, the first chapters are about you getting your fat pasty white arse over to the gym and getting buf. Work out. With a vengeance. So take action now. Lift heavy weights. Free weights. Forget those weight machines for betas. Free weights. Just do the 6 or so basic exercises. 

No time? Bovine Excreta. Once you start working out,e verything else finds time anyway.

Read the book. Your life depends on it. Alpha up, dude. After a few months working out, the other ladies will start noticing you. Your W will notice the ladies noticing you. You'll gain confidence, grace, and start being a real man. Trust the process. 

My W sees other ladies checking me out now. She's not jealous, she likes that she picked a guy that other ladies notice. 

You have lots to learn. The book will help you identify and deal with the daily sh!t tests. With macho ease.

Up your sex rank, dude. Now. 

Just yesterday, my W told me how much she admires my V shape. She had that "smile" and knowing eyes on me. Time to ravish that wife of mine again...

Ok, time for you to read chapter two...


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

Q tip said:


> But your W is married and that did not stop her from cheating with a man, married or not. Who cares if OM is married or single.
> 
> Your W is married. Doesn't she see the hypocrisy? Don't you?


The one who cared if OM single or not was her. She said that from her experience of being cheated on by me she'd never go after a clearly married man, she didn't want to hurt other wives. But apparently ok to hurt me i guess, she thought i was still in my previous affair so it was justified for her. I slowly undertand her logic, however screwed up and hurtful it is

Married or not, just another number on the list to me. She knows what she is and what she's done, when i get angry i call her names too. From the start i made it clear to her that it's unacceptable for me, she has to stop and reconcile, no more cheating from both of us here on out or divorce. We are in R and still progressing, one step at a time. I'll update the other thread soon

Do i think my wife is better than him ? No. They are both common cheaters who had no control and respect to their spouse. I feel sympathy for omw, she has to suffer more through his gaslighting and more lies


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Daniel,

As you know from your initial thread, I didn't agree with your decision to stay in your marriage and I was harshly critical but you have decided to and I hope you achieve your goal.

First, no, no need to the OMW to see yours. She saw what she needed to see though I do feel very badly for the OMW because your wife, in her actions, created other victims now just beyond you. The recklessness of her actions damaged you and now has hurt others. I don't blame the OMW in the least fro her reaction. So please try to have understanding for her.

The last I saw, your wife was still playing hardball with you. No promises to stop cheating etc.... Have you made any progress or does she still consider herself married ? Not a dig at you but just wondering how it's progressing ?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Daniel. said:


> The one who cared if OM single or not was her. She said that from her experience of being cheated on by me she'd never go after a clearly married man, she didn't want to hurt other wives. But apparently ok to hurt me i guess, she thought i was still in my previous affair so it was justified for her. I slowly undertand her logic, however screwed up and hurtful it is
> 
> Married or not, just another number on the list to me. She knows what she is and what she's done, when i get angry i call her names too. From the start i made it clear to her that it's unacceptable for me, she has to stop and reconcile, no more cheating from both of us here on out or divorce. We are in R and still progressing, one step at a time. I'll update the other thread soon
> 
> Do i think my wife is better than him ? No. They are both common cheaters who had no control and respect to their spouse. I feel sympathy for omw, she has to suffer more through his gaslighting and more lies


So you are a common cheater too, huh, Daniel?:scratchhead:


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

You both obviously have issues that go very deep and just keeps getting rug swept. The mound under the rug is going to go from hill to mountain and you will eventually have to look at it and address it.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Any chance she is interested in you? Would be perfect revenge sex


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Any chance she is interested in you? Would be perfect revenge sex


This could get confusing quick. He cheated so she did revenge sex, now he sees OMW for revenge revenge sex.

I'll bring the popcorn and beer.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Q tip said:


> This could get confusing quick. He cheated so she did revenge sex, now he sees OMW for revenge revenge sex.
> 
> I'll bring the popcorn and beer.


I will bring blood pudding and pork scratchings. I fear this could be a long process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Assuming that statistics are correct and that 50% of men are married or in a committed relationship, the odds that your wife would have sex with one of these was 50-50 and seeing that she had multiple ONS, it is not surprising that she eventually did have sex with a married man. The law of averages imposes itself the more one engages in an activities like ONS. And she asking them if they were single or married before she had sex with them, would be pointless because they would lie to her just to get inside her pants.

It is amazing that a woman with schooling and with the position she held, could be so blind. But then may be she allowed herself to be blinded so she could satisfy both her lust and her desire for revenge.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Tell the OMW your wife will answer any question she has through e-mail.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Any chance she is interested in you? Would be perfect revenge sex




LOL...why not this relationship is gone anyway.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Daniel,

Have you been able to verify the real number of POSOM's she cheated with...so at least you have an absolute upper limit on the number of times you two may have to go through this drama, and its resulting triggers, from any other BWs OR gfs?...funny how she didn't seem to give a rat's a** that she might be putting other women who were in committed relationships, BUT maybe not M yet, through the h*ll of infidelity.

I guess may be she figured she would be doing a fiance or LTgf a favor by f*cking their guys...gives those ladies a chance to see what dirtbags they were potentially marrying.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Darn it, guys!

Focus!

OP has multiple serious problems here, and all you're doing is speculating about water under the bridge!

How many men his wife has hiked up her skirt for is TRIVIAL and IRRELEVANT to his current pressing problem!

OP is frozen by indecision- OMW's wife, who was ready to kick his poor widdle wife's @ss, wants to meet again and go over some details that the wife probably left out the first time around (and hasn't bothered to fill OP in on since).

Should he let OMW meet for a face-to-face with the wife, or should he keep them separated?

Daniel, I have to think that new information will come to light if you let them meet. Seek the truth.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Daniel. said:


> I forgot to explain it in my first post, she did apologize to OMW a lot. She said that had she known that she's a wife not an ex she wouldn't do it, she admitted that she bought his story without question. OMW left with some serious bitter words for her, some that i think my wife truly deserves but compared to her husband gaslighting treatment to her at least my wife told her the truth, backed up with evidences.
> 
> We're still in R, maybe we'll get divorce if it doesn't work but she's still the mother of my child. Off course i care for her



it is interesting to see the mental gymnastics you are performing ...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think you & OMW need meet 1st....

Hell all 4 of you need to sit down and look at how many folks got effected by this infidelity crap.

In short OMW has every right to sit down with your wife just like you have every right to sit down with OM.

At the end of the day I'm sure you would like to have some words with OM...right?

I have a feeling OM will talk his old lady out of any kind of meeting and WW will talk you out of any meeting..... period!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Wow, what a mess. Sign me up too for the pudding, beer and popcorn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

No, your wife shouldn't meet with the OMW in person. Like Tacoma said above, maybe she can answer any questions through email. There's no good reason to meet face to face.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

And you're too shy to meet OM? 

This whole caper is insane. You cheated, she cheated, OMW is a bit hugely upset while the men just beta about afraid of their own shadows. 

That's what you get for a lifetime of betaization. Weak spineless men and angry frustrated women...

A well balanced confident male in charge of the marriage and household may help reduce the likelihood of issues like this. 

Why not let them meet. Cat fight!


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

Daniel. said:


> That is possible, but she told me that all person on her list were ringless just like the last one. Guys with ring apparently a no for her


Next time she says they we're "ringless", ask her where hers was and why it's okay for her to be a married cheater and not the men?

I wouldn't protect her from any OMW's, they're allowed to be mad, for cripes sake, she had sex with their husbands. That anger is what you should be feeling, not getting all protective over someone who could infect you with a lifelong STI, condoms aren't 100% effective. She thinks cheating isn't so bad because you don't!


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> I will bring blood pudding and pork scratchings. I fear this could be a long process.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Ref the black pudding

*Eckie Thump*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJxGi8bizEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuP1eycaA6c


note:
Using my tablet last night and couldn't figure out how to do a link


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Daniel. said:


> I forgot to explain it in my first post, she did apologize to OMW a lot. She said that had she known that she's a wife not an ex she wouldn't do it


Why is that even relevant? SHE IS MARRIED!!....TO YOU!


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

Q tip said:


> And you're too shy to meet OM?
> 
> This whole caper is insane. You cheated, she cheated, OMW is a bit hugely upset while the men just beta about afraid of their own shadows.
> 
> ...


You assumed too much, when have i ever said that i was shy or scared to meet him ? NEVER
I bought my wife's explanation because she backed it up with evidence

So fair he has:
1. Lied to my wife about his marital status
2. Lied to his wife that my wife chased him because of his gold watch
3. Lied again about the details, where they met etc
4. Won't let his wife check his email, his wife told that she was untrusting, wtf?
5. Won't talk to his wife about details

So far everything that he has said had been nothing but lies, plus he won't even talk to his wife so what make you think he'll talk to me? Say, he tell me stuffs, i bet it'll be another farce statement. I'm not even convince that he'll talk to me even if i cornered him. There's no reason to trust this guy at all. Complete waste of time

There's a thin line between bravery and stupidity, talking to him (if he dare) is 100% the later


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Sounds like she wants to kick your wife's a$$ for messing around with her husband. That's a fully justified a$$ kicking your wife is due. In fact, from your own posts it's apparent your wife has an a$$ in need of severe kicking. If you're not willing to kick it then other people whose marriages she's trying to destroy will have to. Don't be surprised if one of these women show up with a gun some day, and rightfully so.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

vellocet said:


> Why is that even relevant? SHE IS MARRIED!!....TO YOU!


That was her justification that i absofvckinglately find as stupid. 
Like many cheaters she had plenty, mainly rooted from my EA. 

I got caught and promised to stop, strangely i still hadn't realized how bad it was at that point. 
I was a bit defensive and called her overreacting but promised to cut it with xAP. She sensed that i was half hearted, the next day i went home to empty house. I thought someone broke in, all of the paintings and books (hers) were gone. Only until i saw that the crib and her closet was empty i realized she had moved out. The only thing she left was her wedding and engagement ring near the remote. She didn't take her wedding dress and photos either.

She totally blocked me out and wouldn't let me see our daughter, only until i lawyered up i could finally see the baby. 
I knew she hadn't been happy ever since we started R from my EA and i'd been trying to fix it, never thought it'd ended up with another disaster


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

My wife met OMW this evening, i wasn't there but i told her to record it so i can hear what they talked about. Her husband doesn't know about this meeting

OMW was icy but composed, she said her husband won't explain anything to her (won't even let her check his email) so my wife was the last resort. She had already prepared questions, from what i can tell nearly 100, many of them are the same as my questions.She brought notebook and pen, wrote down my wife's answers. Her main concern was ultimately the her "ex" status, did he tell her that he's divorced/separated (he told her repeatedly divorced), who asked it first, things like that

Here's another lie from him, he told her they met at live music bar and described my wife as some kind of groupie, told her she came after him, bought drinks for them because she saw his expensive watch. OMW believed his version so my wife showed her her online statement, none of that was there. She did buy a drink for herself at the lounge and it was registered in her statement. The golddiger theory flew out of the window when my wife told her that omw was at my house, why would she chase someone like him. She still doesn't believe her so wife suggested to hire PI to get the recording from the security cam. I think by this point omw realized that he lied, again
She asked the why did he describe her as ex question more than once,wife said only her husband knows why, but her husband won't even talk to her and kept telling her to move on. 
Wife apologized again, she was wrong for cheating on me and stupid for buying his explanation. That she hopes that she can find it in her to maybe forgive her

OMW asked how we're doing, wife said that i try as much as i can and that she'll never do it again and we're working to fix our marriage, she told omw that she'll quit her job (finalized this week) and won't be travelling alone for a very long time
OMW said at least she made effort, told her to find God and fix herself
That's that


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

I can only imagine how the conversation goes in the mind of the betrayed. OMW asks "why?"...his wife replies...."oh well he was my Thursday and Saturday night partner and did not know he was married...sorry....now if you excuse me, I have to get make-up on for my Monday night partner"


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Augusto said:


> I can only imagine how the conversation goes. OMW asks "why?"...his wife replies...."oh well he was my Thursday and Saturday night partner and did not know he was married...sorry....now if you excuse me, I have to get make-up on for my Monday night partner"


Definitely someone in need of major league a$$ kickings.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

KingwoodKev said:


> Sounds like she wants to kick your wife's a$$ for messing around with her husband. That's a fully justified a$$ kicking your wife is due. In fact, from your own posts it's apparent your wife has an a$$ in need of severe kicking.


So HER husband went out his way to explain that they are NOT married, emailed her more than once and STILL referred her as EX and my wife is the one who she needs to kick ? She'll have her consequences, from ME. She should be angry at her husband, roots of her problem. Ask him why is she a ghost to him



KingwoodKev said:


> If you're not willing to kick it then other people whose marriages she's trying to destroy will have to.


How can she destroy something that she thought wasn't there ? The marriage that the willing participant, the husband deliberately said doesn't exist ? Is this not clear enough ?



KingwoodKev said:


> Don't be surprised if one of these women show up with a gun some day, and rightfully so.


Perfect logic there :smthumbup:
The husband lied about the marital status and the women who also lied at needed to be shot by the husband's wife who's also lied to. Don't kill the liar, just kill the other one

I'll never defend her for cheating but thank God even this OMW who just had her dday understand that my wife was also lied to by him, her logic still works


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Daniel,

I agree with you that your WW was deceived by the POSOM in this situation.

But she is also lying to herself and being naive if she thought merely looking for rings ensured that she would not be inflicting the pain of infidelity on many a woman.

I think you said she had admitted double digit APs....while some were probably single, there are probably several more LTgf's or fiances who she has severely wronged.

Believing that she did 'due diligence' to avoid being an OW just by looking for a ring is ridiculous compartmentalization on her part to pretend she wasn't destroying other women's relationships.

Heck, with that many AP's it is probably likely there is at least another BW whose POS WH took his ring off on his business trip.

Which brings up an issue with your WW....was she having sex with all these POSs while wearing the wedding ring you gave her?

Or did she at least have enough of a conscience to take it off?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Wow, what a mess. Sign me up too for the pudding, beer and popcorn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


pudding and beer ? I never had that combo yet. Pretty much everything else and beer but not pudding. Interesting. How is it ?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Daniel. said:


> She said that had she known that she's a wife not an ex she wouldn't do it, she admitted that she bought his story without question.


Dan, we can now see that your wife is a woman with very high integrity. I'm glad you straightened us out. I was getting the wrong impression.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Daniel. said:


> That was her justification that i absofvckinglately find as stupid.


Oh I know. I was speaking about her mindset. I wasn't jumping on you my good man.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

always_hopefull said:


> Next time she says they we're "ringless", ask her where hers was and why it's okay for her to be a married cheater and not the men?
> 
> I wouldn't protect her from any OMW's, they're allowed to be mad, for cripes sake, she had sex with their husbands. That anger is what you should be feeling, not getting all protective over someone who could infect you with a lifelong STI, condoms aren't 100% effective. She thinks cheating isn't so bad because you don't!


I also wouldn't buy the story that the "ringless" guys lied to her about not being married. It's not like cheaters are known for their honesty.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Guys, I just don't see why we need to keep repeating over and over that what she did was wrong. She clearly knows that. Her cheating was a bad, horrible thing to do, which she has fully accepted and (so far) seems to be doing the right things to try to address. Does the fact that her cheating partner also happened to be married make what she did worse? Yeah it probably does, but if he made every effort to convince her that he wasn't in a committed relationship, (and she was never really interested in a long term relationship with him either, which might otherwise have inclined her to confirm this information) then I don't think we can really judge her any more harshly than she already deserves for simply cheating in the first place. The fact that this particular short term "f**k buddy" happened to be married is completely irrelevant in my view, purely because he lied about/concealed that fact from her.

Honestly, I can say this from experience. When my wife and I were separated, I dated a lot of different women, engaging sexually with a few of them as well, and in one particular case I later found out that one of them was married and cheating on her husband. It too was "just sex," it never became a relationship of any kind. I had no idea she was married. She didn't wear a ring, she directly told me she was divorced, I even visited her house and didn't see any family photos or evidence of another man living there (she had hidden it all), so should I be condemned for that as well?

Honestly, if anything I have (SLIGHTLY) more respect for his wife because of the fact that she's shown a willingness to be responsive and even help out the OMW with understanding the situation, and even asking her forgiveness. To me, that is a sign of remorse, not a desire to rug sweep and quickly ignore it. This tells me that she DOES care about the hurt she has caused. If she didn't care, she could very easily just ignore her attempts to reach her and say, "It's not my business, this is her problem" and completely ignore her role. To be honest, even I can't say this about myself (referring to the situation I described in the paragraph above), because when I found out the woman was married, I didn't reach out to her husband to let him know what his wife was up to, or seek his forgiveness for what I had done. As far as I know, he still has no idea that his wife seeks out "friends with benefits" on a regular basis, including with married men.

I also don't think Daniel needs to prove anything by contacting this particular OM, or even any of the other OM necessarily. (Remember there were more than a few) Why? Because it sounds like none of them were really "affairs" in the sense that none seemed to have an emotional element involved, and it doesn't sound like any of them are likely to try to get back in touch with her (since she probably dropped one guy when she moved on to another) and they aren't trying to remain in her life. It would be very different if one of them were a true affair, still trying to contact her, or still in contact with her (like at her job or something like that) in which case yes I would say Daniel needs to go confront him/them.

Right now I think it's perfectly acceptable for Daniel and his wife to lay out a plan for assisting both of them to recover from their infidelities that addresses both of their boundary needs VERY clearly. There also should be absolute full disclosure, fully confessing everything that both of them did in their various extramarital activities, including very importantly listing the names and details of each individual adulterous partner. Especially for Daniel, since she was with multiple partners, he needs to know who all of them are so that he too can be on the lookout for any of them should any reappear at one point, and know if she is breaking no-contact. From there, he should just keep working on addressing his own issues and let her address hers. If she ever wavers in her commitment, or resists or breaks any boundaries or steps required to rebuild the marriage/trust, then I would say that needs to be addressed individually, possibly including just giving up on her.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

KingwoodKev said:


> I also wouldn't buy the story that the "ringless" guys lied to her about not being married. It's not like cheaters are known for their honesty.


Fair point, but he's a cheater too. They're both cheaters, but one of them must be telling the truth. I'd be more inclined to believe the one who is actively showing remorse, being willing to open up her life (phone, e-mail, facebook, etc. as well) to inspection, and assist those whom she has hurt with their grief/recovery, vs. the one who is still lying about it, refusing any form of inspection/accountability, and aggressively trying to rug sweep the whole situation.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

cdbaker,

My view is Daniel's WW has yet to show true empathy yet...not for him, not for ANYONE.

Her defensive sounding excuse of I looked for rings cause I wouldn't want to destroy other people's relationships is just pure compartmentalization on her part to avoid facing the fact that simple logic would tell you that a large number of her ONS APs had a SO of some kind at home that her actions were directly hurting.

She does not want to face that truth as far as I can see.

I would even place money on a bet that she was in fact often the aggressor in pursuing these hookups....AND, despite the fact that she says she would never pursue a taken man, since she did NOT want a LT A, only NSA sex, she probably DID pursue men she knew to be taken....cause a purely single AP would be much more inclined to want to continue contact and explore a relationship.

I'm not 'harping' for the sake of harping on this....I really think Daniel needs to address these things with his WW....cause I think she is in total denial of what she has actually and deliberately done.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

KingwoodKev said:


> I also wouldn't buy the story that the "ringless" guys lied to her about not being married. It's not like cheaters are known for their honesty.


Well the last one is exactly like she described, down to the smallest detail. I suggested that she shouldn't meet her, that it could be done via email but she said she had to because it's the least she could do to make amend, it did lift a little burden to see her being remorseful to the person she didn't know exist. If she didn't care about the status i don't think she'd even want to meet her. 

And so far :
1. She admitted all at once
2. I didn't have to pull it out of her once caught
3. No trickle truth
4. Her admittance is backed up with evidences
5. Open access to everything
6. No mixed messages

All signs pretty much points that she's been honest so far. I told her i have to check her work computer,laptop,tablet,phone to see everything and she said yes without hesitation. She has never deleted history and from what i can see everything is ok, rather boring, she loves online shopping


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Daniel. said:


> Well the last one is exactly like she described, down to the smallest detail. I suggested that she shouldn't meet her, that it could be done via email but she said she had to because it's the least she could do to make amend, it did lift a little burden to see her being remorseful to the person she didn't know exist. If she didn't care about the status i don't think she'd even want to meet her.
> 
> And so far :
> 1. She admitted all at once
> ...



I sincerely wish you the best. Was this current time the only time or has there been others?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

KingwoodKev said:


> I sincerely wish you the best. Was this current time the only time or has there been others?


Assuming that I've read his posts in his other thread correctly, there have been quite a few OMs.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> cdbaker,
> 
> My view is Daniel's WW has yet to show true empathy yet...not for him, not for ANYONE.


Yet she's resigned and won't be travelling for the foreseeable future. Let's not forget she's willingly and without much apparent effort on the part of OP taken the single biggest step to ending the lifestyle she chose to lead. 



> Her defensive sounding excuse of I looked for rings cause I wouldn't want to destroy other people's relationships is just pure compartmentalization on her part to avoid facing the fact that simple logic would tell you that a large number of her ONS APs had a SO of some kind at home that her actions were directly hurting.


I don't agree. Her compartmentalisation was her leading her double life on her business trips. She says she didn't pursue any obviously married men. Her being the "aggressor" could mean nothing more than to make it quite clear she was open for having sex. After that it's up to the man in question.

I was faithful to my girlfriend before I got married. And I know it's not a bit of gold that keeps me faithful to my wife now.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Assuming that I've read his posts in his other thread correctly, there have been quite a few OMs."

Yep.

And I still think she is yet to face the full reality of what she was doing, though I think her willingness to agree to Daniel's demands for change and her giving up the job indicates she does WANT to fix the M.

But I think, as I stated in my earlier post, she is still in some type of denial about the true nature of what she was doing, both to her own M and to any BWs/fiances/or gfs of her scummy POSOMs.

She seems very unemotional based on what Daniel has posted (of course he has probably not shared completely her reactions and demeanor)....and a little defensive of the possibility there are other women like the known OMW as a result of all her escapades, hence her insistence that she did her due diligence in making sure AP's had no rings....simple logic shows that to be a major point of denial in her thinking.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I see your point azteca,

But she would have to be very much in denial IMO if she really thought their would never be any type of SO on the other side of these ONSs.

She seems very uncomfortable knowing that there was an OMW in at least one of her many hookups.

Simple logic would tell any rational person that she should have expected it would be true in some, if not many of the cases.

But she compartmentalized off the part of her conscience that is bothered by the thought that she would be hurting these other women,,,,which is why when confronted with the proof that it happened at least once, she responded with the defensive assertion that she ensured all of her APs were single cause she looked for rings, cause she would not want to destroy other people's relationships as she informed OMW in the meeting.

If she truly believes that, she is deep in denial....more likely she compartmentalized it off because she didn't want to think about it.

Either way, she has to finally start coming to terms with the monstrosity of what she has done to both Daniel and any BSOs of her POSOMs if she is ever going to make progress in fixing her M.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Dyokemm said:


> Her defensive sounding excuse of I looked for rings cause I wouldn't want to destroy other people's relationships is just pure compartmentalization on her part to avoid facing the fact that simple logic would tell you that a large number of her ONS APs had a SO of some kind at home that her actions were directly hurting.
> 
> She does not want to face that truth as far as I can see.
> 
> I would even place money on a bet that she was in fact often the aggressor in pursuing these hookups....AND, despite the fact that she says she would never pursue a taken man, since she did NOT want a LT A, only NSA sex, she probably DID pursue men she knew to be taken....cause a purely single AP would be much more inclined to want to continue contact and explore a relationship.


Ok... so what? That's my point. What she did was wrong. What difference does it all make how she did it or who pursued who or how careful she was to avoid married men or whether she compartmentalized any of these decisions or not? What difference does it make? At some point in time she made the decision to cheat, to be willing to engage sexually with other men. Maybe sometimes she pursued them, other times maybe she allowed herself to be pursued, and she probably did try to avoid any men who wore a wedding ring or admitted to being married, but probably just wasn't willing to dig further than that if she knew she just wanted sex anyway. I think you are focusing on the wrong stuff here. Cheating is bad, she's admitted that and expressed remorse for that. How she went about it really doesn't make that much of a difference. I mean, are you suggesting that she should have performed a more in depth background check on each of these men to make sure that they they were really single before cheating on her husband with them?

Obviously she shouldn't have cheated at all, but we're past that, the decision was made, and it sounds like you are suggesting that this guy being able to fool her about not being married somehow makes her crime more egregious than it already is for cheating.

Using myself as an example again. I dated a lot of women when I was separated from my wife, and I had sex with a handful of them. I even met a few while out at bars/clubs who told me they were married or they wore a ring, and I expressed that I wasn't into that. One of the women I did end up hooking up with told me afterwards that she was actually married and just screwing around on her husband on the side. She had clearly lied about being single, didn't wear her wedding ring, even took down photos of him in her house before we got there. I unknowingly slept with a married woman. So how guilty am I? Should I have done more to verify her being single, beyond checking for her ring, asking if she was single, and keeping an eye open for signs of being in a relationship in her home?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

cdbaker,

Well, I guess we just disagree on this.

I don't see from Daniel's posts that she is truly acknowledging the enormity of what she has done.

I just don't think people can really change until they acknowledge the true extent of what they did...they have to completely own their sh*t....IMO this is true remorse...anything else is just an elaborate 'sorry, my bad'.

The entire intent of what I am saying to Daniel is he has to ensure she does really 'get' it.

You may not agree....that's OK.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> She seems very uncomfortable knowing that there was an OMW in at least one of her many hookups.


True. It's indicative of her having empathy.



> Simple logic would tell any rational person that she should have expected it would be true in some, if not many of the cases.


Her 'answer' to being rejected and betrayed by her husband's EA (whilst a new mother) was to seek solace in a series of meaningless hook-ups. I think it's a bit of a stretch to consider her a rational person _at that time_.

We have to focus on the situation today and what the two of them wish and will work toward from now on. We have examples amongst the regulars of affairs with more partners or greater connection.

Let's help them R if they can.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

It's going to be interesting to see if more than one BW pops up and demands the same from your wife. It could become a full time job.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Assuming that I've read his posts in his other thread correctly, there have been quite a few OMs.


Well then I hope he wises up. Serial cheaters are unsavable wretched scum.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Let's help them R if they can."

azteca,

I agree with this 100%.

You and cdbaker may not agree with my views/opinions on the situation (which is fine), but my intent has been to spur Daniel to make sure this situation gets addressed.

As I said above, I do not think true remorse can exist until a person truly faces the full extent and ramifications of what they have done.

I don't see her 'getting it' based on my reading of the info Daniel has provided.

She seems uncomfortable when faced with the reality of it...and instead of acknowledging the realistic possibility that OMW may not be the only BSO from her ONSs, she has fallen back on the defensive attitude/excuse of 'well I looked for rings cause I really didn't want to damage others' (of course while ignoring the tremendous damage she did to her own BH).

If I were Daniel and I heard this, I think my only response would be: 

"Really?....are you that naive about what the consequences of your sexcapades were going to be? It never occurred to you that these guys might have girlfriends, or fiances, or even be married guys like this POS who took their rings off?

Stop lying to yourself and me. If you didn't consider it, you definitely should have cause its simple logic.

And really this excuse from you is making me feel that you still haven't truly realized the sheer magnitude of the damage you have done to both me and these other people.

And if we are going to save this M, this is a reality you better start facing up to."


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Dyokemm said:


> cdbaker,
> 
> Well, I guess we just disagree on this.
> 
> ...


Dyokemm, I'm wondering if you have read Daniel's thread about him and his wife's situation, or if you have just read this thread about the OMW wanting to meet his wife? It sounds like you may be missing some pieces.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Dyokemm said:


> I do not think true remorse can exist until a person truly faces the full extent and ramifications of what they have done.


They have to admit what they really are. To those they've wronged and, more importantly, to themselves. They're not good people who did a bad thing. They're bad people. There is a difference. Good people do bad things all the time but relatively harmless bad things. Spread some juicy gossip, lie to get out of an invitation you don't feel like going to, etc. That is good people doing a bad thing. When someone breaks the marriage vow, the most serious and sacred of vows a human being can take, they have committed a crime against the person, or people, who love them more than any others. In many ways it's worse than murder. Murder victims are no longer suffering. BS's suffer long term unimaginable pain. So do betrayed children. This goes far beyond a good person doing a bad thing. If anyone can do this they are not a good person, they are a bad person.

Once they finally have that epiphany and say "holy sh!t, I'm a bad person" then they can really start the process of a true redemption of themselves and then possibly a reconciliation with those they've wronged. So many won't do that. They cling on to some shred of "I'm a good person who did a bad thing" but the heinous severity of their crime says otherwise. They crossed the same line that murderers cross. I was present when my wife finally stripped off all the bullsh!t and realized this truth about herself. Finally came to terms with exactly what she had done and truly owned it. It cause an outburst of emotion and utter sorrow so severe I thought we might have to sedate her. Still, it "cleansed her soul" to admit what she was. A bad person. Now she says she's a bad person but prays I, and the kids, can forgive her and help her to become a good person. Everyone is redeemable but that can't truly happen until they really own it.


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## MrsDraper (May 27, 2013)

I've read this entire thread.

No, your wife shouldn't have yet another encounter with this woman. Simply put, she probably only wants to beat her a$$.


If she has something to say, she can e-mail it or let the USPS do the job.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

The most important aspect of this whole saga is the fact that Daniel's wife feels 100% justified in doing what she did. She mildly acknowledges that maybe going out and cheating wasn't the smartest thing to do but believes that she was in the right because she believed that was what Daniel was doing. And once she started, she found that she quite enjoyed it - the thrill of it being taboo and naughty, the sex etc. and so she continued and would still be going at it if not caught.

Does that make her good, bad or just plain ugly - that is for Daniel to decide. But there is and was something seriously flawed in her thinking and that has not gone away - and that should be the main concern for Daniel going forward.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> The most important aspect of this whole saga is the fact that Daniel's wife feels 100% justified in doing what she did.


Exactly, she thought it was just. Wrong but just, i cheated so she cheated. She still denies that it was revenge affair, said that she did it for her not to avenge what i did, if she wanted revenge she'd threw it on my face not hid it. WTF ?? She was 2 years in it and the plagues that covered her sense hasn't come off completely. 
We had a huge fight yesterday,i was in horrible mood and really went it on her, called her a lot of names. She didn't deny it or get angry but did let out a comment that really stabbed me, said "I know, you weren't a who** ur sl** or philanderer, i was. But i have never walked away on(daughter's name) especially when she was an infant to watch some sh!tty ghost movies with a 'friend' " 
We're still not talking


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She better get a clear picture in her head that fvcking any swinging dyck that caught her attention was NOT caring for her daughter in any way, shape or form.

Your wife flat out acted like a wh0re for 2 years. Ask her how her pathetic behavior helped her daughter.

Your wife has shown far more selfishness for far longer than you if she wants to compare.

I don't hold out much hope for her or your marriage unless she fully owns and realizes the extent of her betrayal of, not only you, but your daughter as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Hi Daniel,
I haven't read your other thread but I will get to that.

Hey, there are WW on here from time to time who will say, "I just didn't think you loved me anymore", or "I just didn't feel like we were married anymore", without justified any cheating, sometimes these feelings make sense and are justified.

So much so that if a woman comes here feeling that way and the circumstances seem to match that I will say, lawyer up and if he does not wake up divorce him.

Since you are tryinr to reconcile it maybe helpful to validate her feelings with justifying her feelings, such as "Because cheating damages and hurts everyone involved it is never justified, but I understand how much you were hurting for the relationship needs you were seeking. Can we say the needs and feelings were completely justified while agreeing that cheating was a damaging way to meet them?"

Daniel often it seems to me the cheater is not seeking to hurt the BS, just selfishly pursuing their own needs.

It may be "I deserve this" not "You deserve this"


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

KingwoodKev said:


> When someone breaks the marriage vow, the most serious and sacred of vows a human being can take, they have committed a crime against the person, or people, who love them more than any others. In many ways it's worse than murder. Murder victims are no longer suffering. BS's suffer long term unimaginable pain. So do betrayed children. This goes far beyond a good person doing a bad thing. If anyone can do this they are not a good person, they are a bad person


I have had family members that have been cheated on and one that has been murdered. I would have much rather that they were cheated on then murdered. This is the dumbest analogy that I have ever heard posted on here. Please don't ever use it again. You don't think that spouses, children, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins aren't affected by the murder of a loved one. Wake Up!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

VFW said:


> I have had family members that have been cheated on and one that has been murdered. I would have much rather that they were cheated on then murdered. This is the dumbest analogy that I have ever heard posted on here. Please don't ever use it again. You don't think that spouses, children, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins aren't affected by the murder of a loved one. Wake Up!


Eh... though no longer w/ us, he had a point. He just expressed it in a very, very poor way.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Maybe so Gus but in a few months or years perhaps, with the right replacement, a person is over being cheated on while the murder victim is still dead. A couple of broke legs my be a better analogy.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... though no longer w/ us, he had a point. He just expressed it in a very, very poor way.


Eh...the analogy is still an illogical one and should not be repeated. I have been cheated on and while it was a very difficult, I have not only survived, but am much better off that she left. Yes children are affected by divorce, but they still have the parent, a child of a murder victim does not. This is not defensible, statement it is illogical. He didn't even use deceased (die peacefully in your sleep), he used murder! I have had a close relative that was savagely raped and murdered and it still affects the family 30 years later. The analogy is not accurate and shouldn't be used.....period.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Is this why he was banned?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

G.J. said:


> Is this why he was banned?


No.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

VFW said:


> Eh...the analogy is still an illogical one and should not be repeated. I have been cheated on and while it was a very difficult, I have not only survived, but am much better off that she left. Yes children are affected by divorce, but they still have the parent, a child of a murder victim does not. This is not defensible, statement it is illogical. He didn't even use deceased (die peacefully in your sleep), he used murder! I have had a close relative that was savagely raped and murdered and it still affects the family 30 years later. The analogy is not accurate and shouldn't be used.....period.


It's all a matter of perspective. I can tell you that, in the days and weeks following D-Day, I'd have much preferred that my wife had murdered me than cheated on me. And her affairs were _"only"_ EAs!

And even now, going on 3 years removed from that horrible couple of weeks in June 2012, I can still remember the pain, and wishing that it would just... end. That *I* would just end. I didn't particularly care how... I just wanted it all to stop. Hell, there are still days (i.e. when I trigger, which is very rare) that I feel that way.

Now... I'd have never done anything to hurt myself, but I gotta be honest -- that's mostly because I didn't want to do that to either my wife or my mother. Seriously... what a horrible memory to leave behind.

My mother's perspective (or that of my father, brother, aunts, uncles, cousins... Hell, even my wife) will likely be different; if she had to choose between my wife cheating on me and murdering me, she'd obviously choose the former, and that's completely understandable.

Again, perspective.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

I have been through the feelings of betrayal, so I know exactly how hard that can be. At three years removed it was fresher in my mind than it is today. While the analogy would have been illogical to me then as I never entertained the thought of killing myself. I did briefly contemplate the idea of harming others, but not me. Still the idea of murder did not cross my mind, just as you did not do harm to yourself (thank God). It is not logical, because it does not fix the problem. Regardless if you do harm yourself or others, you will still have been betrayed. When you add 10 more years to today, you will have a different view of the subject, at 20 years removed even more so illogical.

When folks use logic like this, it reminds me of comparing sporting events to war. There is no connection to the two and for those that have had the trauma of the event, it becomes insulting for folks to use this analogy. Football isn't war, cheating isn't murder and I think in time you will finally understand what I am trying to tell you. It may take 10-20 years, but you will get there.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

VFW said:


> I have been through the feelings of betrayal, so I know exactly how hard that can be. At three years removed it was fresher in my mind than it is today. While the analogy would have been illogical to me then as I never entertained the thought of killing myself. I did briefly contemplate the idea of harming others, but not me. Still the idea of murder did not cross my mind, just as you did not do harm to yourself (thank God). It is not logical, because it does not fix the problem. Regardless if you do harm yourself or others, you will still have been betrayed. When you add 10 more years to today, you will have a different view of the subject, at 20 years removed even more so illogical.
> 
> When folks use logic like this, it reminds me of comparing sporting events to war. There is no connection to the two and for those that have had the trauma of the event, it becomes insulting for folks to use this analogy. Football isn't war, cheating isn't murder and I think in time you will finally understand what I am trying to tell you. It may take 10-20 years, but you will get there.


LOL. Logic.

It's easy to opine about logic and all the ways in which it can and should be applied to the multitude of scenarios involving the pain and betrayal of infidelity, and especially if (a) you've never experienced it or (b) are so far removed from it that you're able to do so w/ a certain detachment.

Still, I get what you're saying. And please don't misunderstand me... the preceding paragraph is not meant as any sort of slight or attack. Nor would I seek to trivialize what was likely the devastatingly traumatic pain that you likely felt upon learning of either your own spouse's infidelity or the rape and murder of your family member.

But why do we go to such lengths to compare one trauma to another? They're not the same. They're not meant to be. We're not even talking apples and oranges; we're talking apples and tangelos.

Hell, it'd be GREAT to one day be so far past the memories of my D-Days that I can't remember feeling the way that I did then... and sometimes still do. But, as you say, I'm not there yet.

Another bit of food for thought... since your comments w/ respect to war vs. "not war" would seem to take the argument there, I'd point that there have been plenty of battle-hardened combat veterans (we've even heard from some of them here) that have stated that learning of their spouses' infidelities was much more traumatic to them than any of their wartime experiences had been.

ETA: And as far as violence to others goes...? Yeah, I thought about that plenty, and the thoughts weren't limited to only my waking hours. In fact, a had more than one dream that involved beating the sh*t out of a couple of very specific d**chebags w/ a framing hammer.


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