# Men who try to reconcile with WW: some questions?



## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

She is completely remorseful and open and wants to save our marriage and some days I do too. But some days I don't. I'm around 6 months from DDay and having swings from stay to go often. 

Some questions:

I assume these stay/go feelings are normal but when did you get over those?

If you did not divorce right away how long did you give the R and have you been successful? 

What in your view has allowed you to stay in the marriage?


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

_I assume these stay/go feelings are normal but when did you get over those?_

They are normal. I hit the "I am done" feeling at about 7-8 months post d-day #1. About a month post d-day #2.

_If you did not divorce right away how long did you give the R and have you been successful? _

About 8 months in a R phase. It was a slide toward the end of the period.

_What in your view has allowed you to stay in the marriage?_

Could not do it. Some do it for pride, children, religion, guilt, money, etc. I finally had to face my demons and let it go. It was very theraputic to finally let it go. Not easy, but it was something 3.5 years later I am very glad that I chose to do.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm sorry that you're here. More information would be helpful. Do you have kids? How long have you been married and how did you find out?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I am fourteen months post d-day, my WW had a six month affair. At six months from d-day I was much like you but filled with absolute rage. Making a decision on the roller coaster was excruciating. 

1) You are correct in that what you are feeling is normal. After the one year mark the "go" feeling began to lessen. Two key factors are in play here along with many others. First you need to know if internally this is something you can accept. If you can't then reconciling won't work. Second is your WW, is she repairing herself and the marriage? Is she doing the heavy lifting? If her efforts are not everything or bust your reconciliation won't work. 

I will give reconciliation as much time as I and my wife need. Placing a timetable on this isn't really possible as everyone heals at their own pace. As long as I feel we are moving forward and in agreement, time is irrelevant. I can't say we are a success but we both hope to be. 

This last question is tough, I'm not even sure I can adequately answer this. First I would say love, we are both still very much in love with each other. She recognizes she destroyed two families, a husband and a marriage. Repairing hersel and the marriage is difficult but she is showing me a strength I haven't seen before. She is remorseful, regretful, and recognizing she is broken. Had she not tried so hard I probably would have walked. There hasn't been a day since d-day that she hasn't cried or said thank and I'm sorry. She is thankful to have been offered reconciliation and sorry for her previous actions. 

Only you will know if you are capable of reconciliation, no Internet forum can give you the answers you are seeking. These answers are going to come from deep within yourself. I wish you the best of luck whichever way you decide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Graywolf2 said:


> I'm sorry that you're here. More information would be helpful. Do you have kids? How long have you been married and how did you find out?


Thank you.

Married 25+ years, no kids, I found texts on her phone and asked her about it. She eventually confessed and gave me all the details. The affair lasted a few months and they had sex. We were happily married and never had real issues, maybe just not as connected as we should have been on both sides.

There was a time period where she was not being everything she needed to be to allow me to heal but that has turned around. I think she is remorseful and filled with regret but how can I ever know? But I do think she is 100% in and has been NC and totally transparent since I confronted her. 

I do love her (probably to a fault) and I do want to work it out and I think she does too. I think she is beginning to see and admit her faults (and I have too) and she is really fighting to keep us together but some days are really hard. The pain never really goes away and on the worst days I feel like running away. 

Drifting on: Does she actively thank you for the second chance every day? That seems like it would be a real help. 

Thanks for all the responses!


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Meh… my answers will suck for you. Married 20 years to a serial adulterer who did not remotely start out a remorseful spouse after DD. I wrote out a long response, but I do not think I’m the ‘norm’ nor applies to your situation. I’m not going to post it. So, here instead is some earlier stuff to help me stay that might help you.

To get past that initial hurdle… Almost every morning I reassured myself I could start divorce proceedings whenever I want. “So today, can I make it today?” If I could answer yes, then I didn’t divorce that day and reserved the right to change my mind tomorrow. And on the flip side, if I chose to stay in the marriage for the day, I committed to trying to rebuild the relationship and ‘be married’ instead of focused on divorce… I could think about that ‘tomorrow’.

The other helpful trick was to observe her on that day and try not to see that past. So, “Today was she being a wife?” Literally making a list of things she did that I really did like as far as a spouse material. Made the question I’d ask myself the next morning easier to decide I wouldn’t divorce. That's helpful btw because if you can focus on the positive stuff it helps your perception about her and your thoughts about that future a lot more than reliving those affairs (which is going to happen anyway). It just helps with a counterpoint.

She did test me though. There were a few days I really didn’t want to stay married at all. On those days, I’d check the accounts and start getting things ready to hand to a lawyer; that paperwork… then sit on it 24 hours to see if my mind changed. It always did.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> The pain never really goes away and on the worst days I feel like running away.


well as they say "welcome to the club no one asks to be a part of". Your feelings are normal and I can surely relate to this specific one about running away. I am 18 months out and it still hurts like hell, but it has gotten better since about a year ago, but the tough times still come in just as hard, they just seem to have gone down in frequency for me. I still think about it every day thou, we both talk about it every day as well. 
We are trying and we have had up and downs, she is remorseful and wants us to work it out, but she has made mistakes during R, still hanging in there. 
Honestly, I am barely in a position to give you any advice, as we arent out of the woods yet by any means. This is long, hard and it sucks....dont try to rush it, you have to go thru it and you have to let all your feelings and emotions roll away and do their thing.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I had to work through many years of false recovery before i finally really, really understood how vile my ex-wife was and is. 

She did all the right lever-pulling --it seemed at the time--until she no longer could do it.

She finally fessed up that she had been cheating the entire time we were "reconciling."

During marriage counseling, during lots of weeping drama moments where she swore she was back in the marriage.

I'm not suggesting that your marriage reconciliation story is as horrible as mine turned out to be. But you may have to "trust" but verify with a wife who has cheated.

And the reconciliation may not pan out for you.

My wife became an ex-wife way too many years after that should have happened. If I'd had candor about the truth of my life earlier she would have been.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Racer said:


> To get past that initial hurdle… Almost every morning I reassured myself I could start divorce proceedings whenever I want. “So today, can I make it today?” If I could answer yes, then I didn’t divorce that day and reserved the right to change my mind tomorrow.
> 
> The other helpful trick was to observe her on that day and try not to see that past. So, “Today was she being a wife?” Literally making a list of things she did that I really did like as far as a spouse material. Made the question I’d ask myself the next morning easier to decide I wouldn’t divorce.


Those are some really good ideas, thanks for sharing them.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

CantBelieveThis said:


> well as they say "welcome to the club no one asks to be a part of". Your feelings are normal and I can surely relate to this specific one about running away. I am 18 months out and it still hurts like hell, but it has gotten better since about a year ago, but the tough times still come in just as hard, they just seem to have gone down in frequency for me. I still think about it every day thou, we both talk about it every day as well.
> We are trying and we have had up and downs, she is remorseful and wants us to work it out, but she has made mistakes during R, still hanging in there.
> Honestly, I am barely in a position to give you any advice, as we arent out of the woods yet by any means. This is long, hard and it sucks....dont try to rush it, you have to go thru it and you have to let all your feelings and emotions roll away and do their thing.



I wish I could reject my membership to the club! 

I hate to hear that 18 months in the pain is still that bad, that's not something I look forward to. Thanks for the input, not what I wanted to hear but I still appreciate it.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

michzz said:


> I had to work through many years of false recovery before i finally really, really understood how vile my ex-wife was and is.
> 
> She did all the right lever-pulling --it seemed at the time--until she no longer could do it.
> 
> ...


I'll never understand what they are thinking, but so many of them keep cheating. 

I can't imagine having to hear that type of thing when you think things are fine in the R.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Oh, it is as bad as you can imagine.

But you know what? Once you unshackle yourself from such a person, the best of life is again a potential.

If you pry off the things that make you bitter then you see that there are decent women that could want you and be accepting of your attentions. Rebound or relationship, world is then your oyster.

Yes, spend time annoyed as all get out at the wasted time. then get busy catching up.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> She is completely remorseful and open and wants to save our marriage and some days I do too. But some days I don't. I'm around 6 months from DDay and having swings from stay to go often.
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> ...


It took me a year.

Gave R a chance for a year and kept it going (for 5 yrs now).

In my view...the huge degree of submission my old lady has. Granted it's been 5 yrs now so that degree of submission has some what decreased, but she knows the new boundaries I have and even to this day she continues to thank me for keeping her around.

Lets just say back on dday (Feb.12 '10) she excepted all the consequences she had to face and continues to except them.

What I see in my old lady these days is that she understands she had a problem and knows how unhealthy it was to phuck all those strange guys for all those years.

I believe both me and the old lady have reached a point in our life were all these toxic people, in toxic enviorments are not were niether of us want to be.

I also believe that if we were not on the same page with this kind of thinking we would have never made it this far.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

WatGT,

5+ years in R with my FWW (EAPA multiple OM). 

Only one piece (slim) of advice... Trust yourself, only yourself, from now on and remember regardless of R or D... It takes as long as it Takes. 

What I saying is Your Marriage is now on your Time-Table, forever more... your WW forfeited her "right" completely and forever.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes

Yes it's true. My WW apologizes before I leave the house every morning. Just before going to bed she thanks me for the opportunity of having a second chance. She explained that every morning she wakes and is so very sorry for what she destroyed. Before she falls asleep she is thankful to have spent the day married to me. I have stated numerous times that she is working so hard to fix herself and the marriage, but I have never shared this. I see she is sorry and thankful, I see us making it, and since marriage is fifty fifty, I'll match her effort on the marriage end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

It doesn’t matter if you R or D the smart thing to do now is put divorce on the table. Not when you’re mad and not as a threat. Do it when you’re calm an rational. Use the fact that you can't trust her like you once did. You can see yourself getting upset when she takes too long at the grocery store. You don’t want to be that guy. Checking her phone and email all the time is work and you have better things to do. 

I have been married a long time just like you. As you get older companionship and security become more important. In general this is true to an even greater degree with women. You are family. Like a brother that she can count on. The OM was a date. You can’t be as exciting as a date. The subject of divorce will remind her what she stands to lose.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Have you ever questioned wife on why she chose to cheat and have an affair?

It would be important to me that my wife understood why she had an affair, in order to fix her issues so she never lies or cheats again.

That would be comforting to me.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> BY….WhereAreTheGoodTimes
> She is completely remorseful and open and wants to save our marriage and some days I do too. But some days I don't. I'm around 6 months from DDay and having swings from stay to go often.
> 
> Some questions:
> ...



I assume these stay/go feelings are normal but when did you get over those?
*When she proved by her actions for YEARS that she really was remorseful.*


If you did not divorce right away how long did you give the R and have you been successful? 
*I divorced right away and the R had to be proved for over 4 years then I remarried her. My R and remarriage is now over 25 years.*



What in your view has allowed you to stay in the marriage?
*Her decades of never even showing one sign of being a betrayer again. Her decades of respecting me.*


*The actions that I took and the actions that she took are the very key actions that accelerate the pain subsiding.* Depending on the actions the pain can decrease monthly, yearly, or never in the case that the actions are not maintained.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

Who was the POSOM and how did the A start?

I saw in another thread that you said your WW admitted she was happy in the M.

So WTF was the A all about then?

In a situation like this, then the who, how, and why will probably play a big part on how much, if at all, you will be able to heal IMO.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Why don't you separate for a while ? Maybe your mind will be more clear.


Did you verify the truth ? Who was the guy she cheated with?


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> OP,
> 
> Who was the POSOM and how did the A start?
> 
> ...


The POSUM was the husband of a friend of hers and he started messaging her on Facebook. He has had multiple affairs that his wife just overlooks (I assume since she has not done anything). 

She totally fell for the attention and compliments he gave her but I really don't know the hole WHY yet and I tend to believe her because she has been very honest about a lot of things related to the affair and us.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

warlock07 said:


> Why don't you separate for a while ? Maybe your mind will be more clear.
> 
> 
> Did you verify the truth ? Who was the guy she cheated with?



I feel like I'm thinking clearly at this point, but I just waver between wanting to end things and not. I feel like I have most of the truth and I've been able to corroborate much of it. She wants to take a Polygraph at some point. She really is doing a ton of work to save the marriage, I really have no complaints about anything in that regard. And I'm trying to meet her halfway because I see that she is really trying to change. 

I'm just not sure if I will ever be able to trust her and feel safe again. It's a crappy position to be in to love somebody but feel so damaged by what they've done that you cannot continue. Maybe it's just going to take a lot more time.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Mr Blunt said:


> I assume these stay/go feelings are normal but when did you get over those?
> *When she proved by her actions for YEARS that she really was remorseful.*
> 
> 
> ...


What did the divorce do to the relationship? Were you together during or did you separate and then get back together?


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

no kids my simple advice to run, I have know a bh in the past just like you he said my WW is remorseful and everything only to get cheated on again 10 years later . And why not cheated again what was the consequences that his WW faced after her first affair nothing ...
So how about you what was the consequences of her affair ?


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> I feel like I'm thinking clearly at this point, but I just waver between wanting to end things and not. I feel like I have most of the truth and I've been able to corroborate much of it. She wants to take a Polygraph at some point. She really is doing a ton of work to save the marriage, I really have no complaints about anything in that regard. And I'm trying to meet her halfway because I see that she is really trying to change.
> 
> I'm just not sure if I will ever be able to trust her and feel safe again. It's a crappy position to be in to love somebody but feel so damaged by what they've done that you cannot continue. Maybe it's just going to take a lot more time.


time has a lot to do with it, you have been emotionally traumatized, are you in counseling by chance?
I too still go back and forth between staying or ending things.....so I think thats totally normal. The thing that might help is asking yourself if she is worth the fight, and do you believe that she deserves a second chance?
You will also have to accept things you might never thought you would accept before....and that alone takes a while to get a grasp on....good luck


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"It's a crappy position to be in to love somebody but feel so damaged by what they've done that you cannot continue."

This is what I would never be able to get past....If I had tried R with my cheating LTgf, even if I had been able to get past the anger and if she was truly trying her hardest, this would ALWAYS remain...I would not see myself as damaged, but I would forever see her that way and my respect for her would have been permanently lowered.

I am to this day impressed and astounded that some guys can fight through this.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

Been 18 months for me. 

I still trigger, but less so. Still think about it quite often (say 80% of the day, 90% at night). It's becoming "normal" for me, to imagine what they did together. Still sucks. Still angers me. But I am able to control it.  I used alcohol quite a bit to deal with it. Of course that doesn't work and just delays the emotions you will eventually have to work out. 

My anger was getting the best of me. I started lifting heavy weights (5x5 strong lifts program), gained 150lbs on my deadlift, 100lbs on my squat, 50lbs on my bench. Pretty awesome to see, gave me something positive in my life with all the $hit on my mind.

My earthly pride is destroyed. I am redefining what a man is in my mind. I have two young kids, that's what keeps me here. She is doing everything under the sun to help me. I still may leave her, she may cheat again; but either way I am not visiting those dark months after I found out on Dday. 

BTW, after the one year anniversary, it's another rough patch for about 3-6 weeks, just something I experienced and have read from others on here.

Hang in there.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

pauslon said:


> Been 18 months for me.
> 
> I still trigger, but less so. Still think about it quite often (say 80% of the day, 90% at night). It's becoming "normal" for me, to imagine what they did together. Still sucks. Still angers me. But I am able to control it. I used alcohol quite a bit to deal with it. Of course that doesn't work and just delays the emotions you will eventually have to work out.
> 
> ...


I guess I want to believe that I'm going to get better a lot quicker but I guess I need to accept it's going to take a lot longer than I think. Thanks!


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> "It's a crappy position to be in to love somebody but feel so damaged by what they've done that you cannot continue."
> 
> This is what I would never be able to get past....If I had tried R with my cheating LTgf, even if I had been able to get past the anger and if she was truly trying her hardest, this would ALWAYS remain...I would not see myself as damaged, but I would forever see her that way and my respect for her would have been permanently lowered.
> 
> I am to this day impressed and astounded that some guys can fight through this.


I'm astounded that I've made it this far. I was in the "instant deal breaker" camp before it happened.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

imjustwatching said:


> no kids my simple advice to run, I have know a bh in the past just like you he said my WW is remorseful and everything only to get cheated on again 10 years later . And why not cheated again what was the consequences that his WW faced after her first affair nothing ...
> So how about you what was the consequences of her affair ?


I'm expecting(and I'm getting) big changes from her but I guess there have been no consequences. What should I demand in the way of consequences?


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> She totally fell for the attention and compliments he gave her...


Oh brother. If you hang around here for any length of time "attention and compliments" will pop up so frequently you'll want to puke. Over and over. It would be almost comical if it weren't so pathetic and sickening.

Yep, around 6-12 months for me was also the worst. You realize that you can work at things; she can be remorseful; all the textbook stuff, but you'll never have a faithful wife again. Sometimes, that issue looms so large that you just want to smash everything in sight.

I didn't even find out about the affair until many years later, and after she had cleaned up her act, and still some days can't fathom that this is the hand I'm playing.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> She is completely remorseful and open and wants to save our marriage and some days I do too. But some days I don't. I'm around 6 months from DDay and having swings from stay to go often.
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> ...


My experience is that time doesn't make it go away, but it lessens the pain and makes it bearable and allows you to move on with your own life - if you put focus and energy into it.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> What did the divorce do to the relationship? Were you together during or did you separate and then get back together?


I got a great deal in the divorce and I was now protected in some areas. The divorce shook her up and she tried to R but she was weak and allowed the OM to contact her in secret. She never left the house but kept in contact with the OM. When she said that she was going to move in with the OM I made her tell our children then I threw her car keys at her and told her to get out. The children were very affected and my daughter let her know what she thought of her. It was not pretty!

She came back around sun down and begged to come back. She was so frightened she looked like a wild animal. I let her back in the house and kept working on myself and doing the things that I wanted to do for me and the children. I did not mistreat her but treated her like a person that was not part of my family. I told her that her actions for years will determine what our relationship will be in the future. I kept preparing myself to be single and contented and told her that the heavy lifting was up to her. I was free from wanting to please her and need her.

I was somewhat apathetic, did not want to see her destroyed, but did not want to get any affection or softness from her.* My protection and recovery was top priority along with my children.* I had been excited about being single again but for the children and a few other reasons I knew that I should give her a chance.

From what you have written your wife does seem serious about remorse. Her actions, “She really is doing a ton of work to save the marriage” are very good at this point. 




> What should I demand in the way of consequences?


 The consequences for my wife were that she lost all the assets in the divorce and I had custody of the children. She willingly gave all that up for the OM and I had what I wanted out of the D. In addition, her daughter did not even want to see her face again and moved out when I let her back in the home. She knew that she hurt all our children with her selfishness and weakness. Her consequences were quite severe.

Your wife has committed one of the worst violations of a relationship and she should have to pay a severe price. I am not talking about revenge or doing something that would destroy her but she should sign legal papers so that you are protected in what you want to be protected in in case she does this gain in 5-10-20 years from now. If you are reasonable and she balks at signing legal papers then I would be Leary of her desire to make it up to you.

Your wife seems to be doing a lot in the very early stages and seems very sincere. However, a few months means very little and she should be tested for years. *You should be getting yourself stronger so that you can live with her or without her.* You have to get stronger within yourself and be more self-sufficient so that you do not get this hurt again. If you take the right actions the pain will get better every month and you will not be so worried about the pain because it will have lessened.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

Your questions reek of high emotions. And rightly so. You are guessing if you can look at her the same, kiss her the same let alone have sex. Basically it comes down to her willingness to do heavy lifting. ALL OF IT! The bottom line is you have to learn to tolerate the past while having none for the future. Which is the approach I have taken.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Oh brother. If you hang around here for any length of time "attention and compliments" will pop up so frequently you'll want to puke."

I agree with this so much.

And I will simply never be able to understand it

How in the f*ck can a WS not see that an individual who would pursue a M person like this is a total POS?.....it would be like being proud and happy you were getting praise and attention from a slimy used car salesman.

Personally, I am disgusted whenever a person I have zero respect for tries to compliment me....my only response is a cold and curt 'thanks'.

And anyone who would do this knowing I was M or in a serious relationship would automatically fall into the zero respect category.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

You say no real problems in your relationship....I can understand your perspective as a man. But your wife obviously felt different. Not saying anything about you, but your wife has a different view about where your marriage was at.

The fact that she cheated with her friends husband....that's pretty low. To put it another way, she cheats on the closest people in her life...you & a friend. And for what for...some compliments from a loser via facebook.

Has your wife fessed up to her friend? Has the OM been told how much of an ahole he is?

Has your wife apologized to your family? or do they not know. What about her family.

I don't know...but I'd be wary. There may be other things going on that you don't know about....Believe me. there is always more.


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

It's probably easier to start over with someone new than it is to tear down & rebuild the very foundations of an aged relationship. As crappy as your situation may seem, it's actually pretty normal. I've been there, and sometimes I still am, and I know it's not a happy place to call home.

You can rebuild on the ruins of your haunted house which burned down, and then set about exorcising the evil spirits who lived there... or you can choose a new location and home (which may or may not be inhabited by spooky ghosts). Either way, you're starting over. 

Family Feud was playing in the background yesterday, and I overheard this question: "What is the most important aspect of a relationship?"

Love? #2 answer.
Trust. #1. 

Even a bunch of randoms polled in a mall can get that one right. It's hard to get that trust back even under ideal circumstances; and frankly, part of that is acknowledging that 100% trust is a lie which leaves you vulnerable and your relationship open. There is no safety... not with your current woman, and not with any other.

If your partner isn't rebuilding that trust in every way possible - if she doesn't understand the gravity of her actions and the magnitude of the gift of reconciliation - I wouldn't even try. If you're having trouble processing, understanding, or deciding about the past/present/future... that's normal, but you need to work through it and find the peace you need. If the issues are being dealt with and not simply swept under the rug: Reconciliation is not easy.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Farmer J,

I get your point about her perspective about the M being different....but in OP's defense,,,in his other thread he shared that his WW confessed she was happy in the M too.

So he really is stuck in a crappy situation....after all, if his WW can pull this stupid crap despite being happy in the M, simply because some POS showers her with compliments. then how can he ever be sure she would never do it again?

Add in factors like she knew this guy was a serial cheating piece of trash because he was her friend's H and she STILL fell for it and stabbed not just her BH but also her friend in the back.

The sheer stupidity of falling for the lines of a guy she knew was a total serial cheating POS would be too much for me to handle, if I was in his situation.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Farmer_J said:


> You say no real problems in your relationship....I can understand your perspective as a man. But your wife obviously felt different. Not saying anything about you, but your wife has a different view about where your marriage was at.
> 
> The fact that she cheated with her friends husband....that's pretty low. To put it another way, she cheats on the closest people in her life...you & a friend. And for what for...some compliments from a loser via facebook.
> 
> ...


I was happy and she swears she was as well. Says she just fell for someone new saying the right things. Family does not know and I told the MW.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> Farmer J,
> 
> I get your point about her perspective about the M being different....but in OP's defense,,,in his other thread he shared that his WW confessed she was happy in the M too.
> 
> ...


She is very remorseful and I believe what she is saying. She has given all the details many times now about how it started, etc and the stories are always consistent. We did not know he was a serial cheater until his wife found out.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She sure knows how to pick them.

Has she gone NC?

Has she had tests for stds?


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

harrybrown said:


> She sure knows how to pick them.
> 
> Has she gone NC?
> 
> Has she had tests for stds?


She did not have the best judgement there at all :scratchhead: clear case of cheating down for sure. I never felt threatened or jealous either.

Got tested first week after DDay, all clear. She has been totally NC since DDay about 6 months ago.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"We did not know he was a serial cheater until his wife found out."

That at least is good news.

But she still told you she was happy in the M....so how can she guarantee this never repeats?

It's not like you can do more if you both agree the M was good and you were both happy.

So why on earth would she pull this crap?...in the process crushing both her loving H and a good friend.

Some compliments from a POS willing to not only ruin her M but also stab his wife, HER FRIEND, in the back?

Why in the h*ll wasn't she immediately disgusted and outraged when he made his intentions clear?

It simply makes no sense.


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

I have to agree with the poster above...it doesnt make sense for her to cheat and yet be happy in the M.

The only other explanation is that she cheats b/c she just feels like doing it....which doesnt make sense either.

Which brings me back to the point that if she is like most women who have cheated, they were unhappy in some way or form with the M. Im not suggested that the M was bad in any way....just that it could be a perceived reality from her point of view. 

So either she she cheated b/c she was unhappy OR b/c she just felt like having sex with her friends husband.......
Right now she is telling you she wasnt unhappy. Both choices are bad, but to me the other choice is more of a red flag of what could be in the future. 

There's got to be something more that she isnt telling you. Dont think people will hide stuff after being found out. She hid the texts from you for awhile. There could be more that she is not telling about.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Dyokemm said:


> "We did not know he was a serial cheater until his wife found out."
> 
> That at least is good news.
> 
> ...


Here we go again. Even in a "Bad" marriage, affairs never make sense. 100 other options on the table... but I'm going to sleep with my best friends husband. WTH.

We all know that affairs are generally a product of issue and buried in there is generally a good dose of selfishness, vanity, insecurity and a splash of recklessness. 

JMO.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Farmer_J said:


> I have to agree with the poster above...it doesnt make sense for her to cheat and yet be happy in the M.
> 
> The only other explanation is that she cheats b/c she just feels like doing it....which doesnt make sense either.
> 
> ...


When you step back and look at the situation she could be very happy with the marriage. Even with her husband.

What she really is unhappy about is herself.

We have seen many a wayward spouse blowup a great marriage and family by having affairs.

Their battered spouses or loyal spouses stand bewildered, wondering what is wrong with me that my wife or husband would do this to me????

What many come to realize is that their spouse's or partners affair had very little do with them if at all.

Their wayward spouse has become unhappy, unsatisfied inside themselves and they cheat. They not only hurt those around them but themselves as well.

That is why we say infidelity is such a selfish act. A very selfish decision.

HM


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

If it wasn't such a serious matter it would almost be humorous; that is it starts out that the WW is 100% responsible for the affair with everyone saying the the BH, in no way, contributed to any of it. Soon it morphs into something along the lines of the WW had some childhood abuse, chemical problem in the brain, etc., etc., and some POSOM who prayed on the guy's distraught wife, took advantage and banged the girl. (and to undo the problem, hammer the OM for being such a low life) 
When you face the reality, you discover men are like vampires. They cannot enter a place they are not invited.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Even in a "Bad" marriage, affairs never make sense."

RWB,

Oh...I agree they NEVER make sense.

If the M is bad, the A certainly doesn't 'fix' the issues or make the relationship better.

It is stupid and illogical.

My point is that if a person can cheat in a M even they say is happy and good, there is something VERY screwed up with them as a person....something so broken that they may never be a safe partner for their spouse.

As Farmer J pointed out....if she IS being truthful about her being happy, and she just felt like having sex with her friend's H for the thrill of it, then this is a huge red flag for future behavior.

If that is the case, there is literally no way that OP can 'A proof' his M in the future.

After all, what more could he do...she was happy.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

I think you can love your spouse, and be really happy in a marriage and still be a selfish, lying, entitled person that chooses to engage in an affair for your own gratification. She is VERY screwed up but still in love in a (formerly) happy marriage.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

People don't cheat to fix the problem. The cheat to fill a void in their life, for temporary relief, and to test drive a new model. Something else is that people can be in a reasonable happy marriage (roof over their head, kids, transportation, financial security, etc.) but have little romantic interest in their spouse. How many guys on here would say their wives went LD before finding out she was giving it up to somebody else? How many are back with, "wife had little or no enthusiasm for sex" during failed reconciliation? Men who believe their cheating wives are madly in love with them need to stay out of Vegas. They get clean out.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

" I think you can love your spouse, and be really happy in a marriage and still be a selfish, lying, entitled person that chooses to engage in an affair for your own gratification. She is VERY screwed up but still in love in a (formerly) happy marriage."

I don't disagree.

But then the problem and danger for you becomes this....how can you ever feel secure in believing she will never do it again?

Many BSs on these threads tell their WSs there will be no more chances...the cheating had better not ever be repeated.....only to then find that it has happened again.

This is because they do not believe their BS will actually ever file D after failing to do so the first time.

kwood's thread is a good example of this....he has now caught her 3 times...and it is obvious his WW still thinks she is in control of whether the M will actually end.

IMO a BS should always file for D after Dday, even if they ultimately would like to R....after all, D does not happen in 24 hours, and can always be called off.

I think the WS has to feel the pain of utter rejection and feel the fear that they may actually lose their M due to their own stupidity...they must realize that the choice to R truly is in the hands of the BS,,,and if they receive that chance it is a gift that they had better not take for granted.


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

Good points being made here, and they are points that the OP should hear.

Part of my problem with R was trying to put those pieces together - what happened, why, and will it happen again? Most of the answers to the first 2 questions exist only in her head, and the final question can't be known for sure. When you can't seem to find solid ground, it's hard to take a step forward in reconciliation.

As someone said above, cheating doesn't always need a reason or excuse, and it's often more about the cheater and their own problems than it is with the marriage or the BS. Cheating feels good. It's the rush of new "love," new compliments, new experiences, etc... all that "love" needs is a foot in the door, and if we're talking about why someone cheated in a scenario like this, that's typically what is actually being discussed. 

Your marriage probably wasn't perfect, even if she failed to express her needs, but that isn't a reason to cheat. It's an excuse. I had every reason to cheat over the past 10+ years, but she's the one who found an excuse to do it; and man, did her excuse involve some crazy pretzel logic. People will bend reality to suit their desires - if those desires are strong enough, or their reality seems flawed enough. Has she performed as much introspection as you have? This is critical. The reason she cheated is within her.

Dyokkem has a solid point regarding taking you for granted and not feeling any of the same danger or pain as you felt. It's not a ploy or tool for manipulation - but being prepared to call it quits is a very powerful thing, and something I also think every BS must come to terms with, even (or especially) if they desire a reconciliation on equal footing. Without the possibility of you leaving - finding someone new & better, and leaving her to trade down in the cheater stocks - your hand within the relationship is infinitely weaker, and you are much less prepared if things don't play out the way you expect.

I'm not telling you to drop everything and tell her you're leaving, but if you haven't already, this can be a good opportunity to work on yourself. If you can stand alone, your wife may plead for the opportunity to stand with you.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *
> I think you can love your spouse, and be really happy in a marriage and still be a selfish, lying, entitled person that chooses to engage in an affair for your own gratification*. She is VERY screwed up but still in love in a (formerly) happy marriage.


*The love that you are talking about in bold above is a weak and twisted love at best!*

Selfishness and choosing an affair for your own gratification are very serious violations of true love that has depth.

You maybe compromising on what strong and real love is to help relieve the pain that you have


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Married 25+ years, no kids, I found texts on her phone and asked her about it. She eventually confessed and gave me all the details. The affair lasted a few months and they had sex. We were happily married and never had real issues, maybe just not as connected as we should have been on both sides.
> 
> ...





WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> I think you can love your spouse, and be really happy in a marriage and still be a selfish, lying, entitled person that chooses to engage in an affair for your own gratification. *She is VERY screwed up but still in love in a (formerly) happy marriage.*


WATGT,

Let me tell you what went wrong in your marriage -- you loved your wife to a fault. Let me tell you what is going wrong with your reconciliation -- you believe she is still in love with you.

Women grow tired of, bored with and eventually contemptuous of guys who put them on a pedestal. The end result is often infidelity. Most likely, this is what happened to you.

No woman loves a man whom she doesn't respect and, once a man loses a woman's respect, it is very difficult for him to get it back. So the likelihood that your unfaithful wife is in love with you is very small.

If you want to win her back, you have to present yourself as someone worthy of respect. That means giving her consequences for what she has done. Start by asking her to disclose her infidelity to family and close friends. Let her know that, if she wants to save her marriage, she must prove herself to you as someone worthy of your respect, including being totally transparent in all of her communications with others, answering all of your questions truthfully and completely, behaving on a daily basis as someone who is contrite for her betrayal and taking the initiative to fix whatever character flaw(s) that led to her adultery.

Don't be cruel to her but, also, don't be too quick to forgive her. Judge her by what she does, not by what she says. Meanwhile, as others have advised you, improve yourself physically, professionally, emotionally and spiritually so that you are the best man you can be. Become someone who can be happy with or without her, and demonstrate this to her. Don't include her in everything you do. Instead, focus on your work and recreational activities. Spend time with friends. Even ignore her from time to time.

Read the following two works:

_"No More Mr. Nice Guy"_ by Dr. Robert Glover (https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf) and

_"Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011"_ by Athol Kay (The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 By Athol Kay).

Good luck to you.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> But then the problem and danger for you becomes this....how can you ever feel secure in believing she will never do it again?


Because my security comes from a position of strength. I know now that I'll be OK if she cheats again so I don't have to worry about her cheating again at all. So it's a process of acceptance to realize that I can be OK with either outcome.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> People don't cheat to fix the problem. The cheat to fill a void in their life, for temporary relief, and to test drive a new model. Something else is that people can be in a reasonable happy marriage (roof over their head, kids, transportation, financial security, etc.) but have little romantic interest in their spouse. How many guys on here would say their wives went LD before finding out she was giving it up to somebody else? How many are back with, "wife had little or no enthusiasm for sex" during failed reconciliation? Men who believe their cheating wives are madly in love with them need to stay out of Vegas. They get clean out.



None of that applies to our relationship. She has a plenty of romantic interest (both ways really), we have loads of sex that we both find satisfying. Her drive has never been low except when the kids were very young. Sex has been off the charts since the affair (hysterical bonding). So I reject your argument that ALL women are unhappy or missing something. She has it all she just wanted more and different and let things snowball. But she is remorseful in a huge way about the whole thing and is filled with hate for herself.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Cabsy said:


> Good points being made here, and they are points that the OP should hear.
> 
> Part of my problem with R was trying to put those pieces together - what happened, why, and will it happen again? Most of the answers to the first 2 questions exist only in her head, and the final question can't be known for sure. When you can't seem to find solid ground, it's hard to take a step forward in reconciliation.
> 
> ...


This thread was not really intended to be about my relationship. But I'll respond anyway. She fully understands that I intend to divorce if she does not shape up, I can't stress that enough. I'm feeling strong and will not stand for anything less than her complete transformation. She has been selfish and she is working to fix that and all her bad traits. I have some things too that I'm willing to work on not because she has made any demands but that I need to do to be a better person and husband as well. But those things are things I want to change about myself for myself. And really when it comes down to it she really does not want to be the selfish, entitled, brat that she was. 

She is moving heaven and earth to make herself a better person. I cannot express how regretful and remorseful she is and how I don't have to be angry with her because she is so angry with herself. She HATES what she did with a passion, she HATES herself for letting it happen and she HATES the OM. These emotions are real and not an act and I can tell because her emotions are so strong. I don't have to tell her how badly she ****ed up because she is telling me that every chance she gets.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> I cannot express how regretful and remorseful she is and how I don't have to be angry with her because she is so angry with herself. She HATES what she did with a passion, she HATES herself for letting it happen and she HATES the OM. *These emotions are real and not an act and I can tell because her emotions are so strong.* I don't have to tell her how badly she ****ed up because she is telling me that every chance she gets.


You obviously know your personal situation much better than I do. However when I see BS make such a statement I take it with a grain of salt. They say things like “I know she’s remorseful. If not she should win an Academy Award.” 

Of course their emotions are very real. That goes without saying. The WW’s world has been turned upside down perhaps never to recover. It’s like seeing a lifeboat drifting away from you. The question isn’t if they’re truly emotional, it’s why they’re so emotional. Is it remorse?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Hope she realizes the gift of a second chance.

So she used so much energy and time to cheat, lie and betray.

So how is she using her energy and time to try to make amends for her cheating.

If you had the A, would she let you have a second chance?

Would it hurt her if you had an A? (I am not suggesting that you do, just have her walk in your shoes.)


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