# He's harsh and draconian - or my daughter is a little brat and he's justified?



## EllaBella (Apr 13, 2016)

My husband has booked a 3 week overseas trip for he and I and my two teenage daughters. He's generously paid for everything. We're due to leave in 24 hours. We do these trips every year.

However, we were away camping on New Years Eve and while we were away, my 17 year old daughter had a low key 'befores' party on NYE. She was told she was not allowed to have any friends over, but she disobeyed and then lied and tried to cover up. This is the third time this has happened. It was pretty dumb of me to trust her, wasn't it.... We realised she'd had friends over when she'd mopped the floors (suspicious), there were 2 beer bottles on the front lawn and beer bottles in the recycle bin. It was disgusting behaviour on her part and I'm furious with her. She has had her phone taken off her, she will not be allowed to have access to the house when we're away (she can go to her dad's) or friends over again until further notice. She's spent the last 2 days in lockdown with me spring cleaning the house.

The problem is my husband is saying she is not coming on the trip with us and has cancelled her ticket. I think this is far too harsh. We're going away with other families with kids her age and it will be so sad for me that she's not there. I had to jump through hoops to get her passport renewed and he's spent so much money on including her in the trip. I think the best thing for her is to get away from her friends and come on a family trip. He's been really telling her off and she's taken it all without answering back, and has been cleaning and trying to make amends. I've begged him to forgive her. 

I'm thinking this is something he's doing I will never be able to forgive ... but is he justified? Is this a reasonable consequence for her actions?


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EllaBella said:


> My husband has booked a 3 week overseas trip for he and I and my two teenage daughters. He's generously paid for everything. We're due to leave in 24 hours. We do these trips every year.
> 
> However, we were away camping on New Years Eve and while we were away, my 17 year old daughter had a low key 'befores' party on NYE. She was told she was not allowed to have any friends over, but she disobeyed and then lied and tried to cover up. This is the third time this has happened. It was pretty dumb of me to trust her, wasn't it.... We realised she'd had friends over when she'd mopped the floors (suspicious), there were 2 beer bottles on the front lawn and beer bottles in the recycle bin. It was disgusting behaviour on her part and I'm furious with her. She has had her phone taken off her, she will not be allowed to have access to the house when we're away (she can go to her dad's) or friends over again until further notice. She's spent the last 2 days in lockdown with me spring cleaning the house.
> 
> ...


. 

First, how long have you been married? 

Second, can you afford to buy the tickets from him? In other words, offer to purchase her ticket and her way? 

Personally, I live by but the code a child is a child for life. A husband is a husband until he finds another wife. Having said that, I wouldn't be going on a trip where my kid was not welcomed. We're a package deal.


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I understand your husband wants to punish her but believe his actions are wrong.

I think family time is of the utmost importance right now. The more you can keep her involved in the family circle the better. If you punish her by taking away the family support where is she going to turn but to those kids she is partying with. 

And mom....big blunder on your part giving her access to your home while you were away. Don't let that happen again, she should have lost that trust after the first party.


----------



## EllaBella (Apr 13, 2016)

_First, how long have you been married?_
8 years

_Second, can you afford to buy the tickets from him? In other words, offer to purchase her ticket and her way?_
It's not about the money. The tickets/ski passes/accommodation etc have all been purchased. He's not allowing her to come because he doesn't think she should be 'rewarded for bad behaviour'.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I don't know.

She's pulled this crap THREE times now according to you. So you took her phone away. Big whoop. Twenty years ago we didn't even HAVE phones and kids had to suffer actual *normal* consequences, not having a stupid phone taken away so they miss out on those all-important selfies and social media.  Oh, the horror!

Look. She's a 17 year old kid who has continually put you AND your husband at *great risk* with her stupidity and selfish behavior. Who do you think would be sued if one of those kids at her party were hurt, maimed or God forbid killed as a direct result of that party and the alcohol involved? She wouldn't be sued - she's only 17. It would be *you and your husband *losing everything you own PLUS anything you ever _*hope*_ to own until the day you die. And as was suggested, while you and your daughter may be a 'package deal,' that just sounds ignorant and self-indulgent to use as an excuse for why she should go. More so, _he's _not part of that package deal yet it's HIS ass continually being put on the line with her house parties, not just yours.

_You _might want to molly-coddle her - AGAIN - like you did the last two times because you see how well that worked as you're now dealing with the exact same thing a *third* time. So obviously, what you'd done in the past isn't working. Stop the passive parenting and actually teach her a lesson this time. Let her go stay at her father's house.

For what it's worth, your husband needs to lay off the nasty, childish verbal abuse he's throwing at her. That just negates the importance of her punishment and makes it look like he's being a baby by taking away her vacation rather than teaching her a lesson.


----------



## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

No, he's wrong to exclude her. She's your daughter, she's part of the family despite behavior that goes against the grain. Being a teenager she likely would rather not travel with her parents which seems to me to be a perfect way to discipline by saying, if we can't trust you at home alone you are going with us everywhere.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EllaBella said:


> _First, how long have you been married?_
> 8 years
> 
> _Second, can you afford to buy the tickets from him? In other words, offer to purchase her ticket and her way?_
> It's not about the money. The tickets/ski passes/accommodation etc have all been purchased. He's not allowing her to come because he doesn't think she should be 'rewarded for bad behaviour'.


Your husband has stated his position so basically you have a choice. You can choose to leave your daughter behind with her biological father while you and your husband go have fun skiing with her sister and friends. Or you can stay behind with her and let your husband go skiing with his friends. That's it. 

Personally, I would stick with my daughters and let the husband go on vacation alone. It's his vacation after all. You and your girls are just extras he can add or remove at will.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

EllaBella said:


> He's not allowing her to come because he doesn't think she should be 'rewarded for bad behaviour'.


He's right. I said the same thing in my post before I read this. You don't reward **** behavior.


----------



## EllaBella (Apr 13, 2016)

_Personally, I live by but the code a child is a child for life. A husband is a husband until he finds another wife._

I'm guessing your children are younger? As a mother to children in their 20s, I think a "child" is NOT a "child" for life. No matter how close your relationship is with them, they still grow up and live their own lives. If you didn't have a husband or friends you'd be by yourself most of the time. The husband is actually the one you're left with (if the relationship is strong)!


----------



## EllaBella (Apr 13, 2016)

_Your husband has stated his position so basically you have a choice. You can choose to leave your daughter behind with her biological father while you and your husband go have fun skiing with her sister and friends. Or you can stay behind with her and let your husband go skiing with his friends. That's it.

Personally, I would stick with my daughters and let the husband go on vacation alone. It's his vacation after all. You and your girls are just extras he can add or remove at will. 
_
That's a bit tough on her sister who wants to go. Also me pulling out at this late stage and wasting all the money he's spent wouldn't be right either. It's not actually 'his' vacation... it's a ski trip with other families. He'll do his own trip with the boys later and he and I also go and do a trip together from time to time. This is definitely supposed to be the annual school holiday family trip.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EllaBella said:


> _Personally, I live by but the code a child is a child for life. A husband is a husband until he finds another wife._
> 
> I'm guessing your children are younger? As a mother to children in their 20s, I think a "child" is NOT a "child" for life. No matter how close your relationship is with them, they still grow up and live their own lives. If you didn't have a husband or friends you'd be by yourself most of the time. The husband is actually the one you're left with (if the relationship is strong)!


Yes, my child is a soon to be teenager. And while I agree that children do grow up and make their own lives, there's no guarantee that a marriage will last forever. The next Mrs. EllaBella could be just around the corner, leaving you without a husband. I don't know of many ex spouses who love each other after divorce and want to spend time together but I do know children who love their parents throughout their lives and want to spend time with their parents regardless their ages and life stage. That's what I meant by children are children for life.


----------



## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

You are married to him now. He should be a major part of the package deal.

A hubby and wife should make parenting decisions together and then show a united front.

Husbands/wives should be forever, yes sometimes divorce happens.

Yes kids are forever.

But when you are married to someone you should live like this marriage is forever, otherwise why sign the paper in the first place.

Kids grow up and move out.

Don't cling to them. They will live their own lives.

Cling to your husband, yet love and be fair to the children.

In this instance, she is a spoiled brat and she needs consequences.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EllaBella said:


> _Your husband has stated his position so basically you have a choice. You can choose to leave your daughter behind with her biological father while you and your husband go have fun skiing with her sister and friends. Or you can stay behind with her and let your husband go skiing with his friends. That's it.
> 
> Personally, I would stick with my daughters and let the husband go on vacation alone. It's his vacation after all. You and your girls are just extras he can add or remove at will.
> _
> That's a bit tough on her sister who wants to go. Also me pulling out at this late stage and wasting all the money he's spent wouldn't be right either. It's not actually 'his' vacation... it's a ski trip with other families. He'll do his own trip with the boys later and he and I also go and do a trip together from time to time. This is definitely supposed to be the annual school holiday family trip.


Then go on the vacation. Your daughter may or may not get over it but it sure sounds like a wonderful vacation.


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

EllaBella said:


> _Your husband has stated his position so basically you have a choice. You can choose to leave your daughter behind with her biological father while you and your husband go have fun skiing with her sister and friends. Or you can stay behind with her and let your husband go skiing with his friends. That's it.
> 
> Personally, I would stick with my daughters and let the husband go on vacation alone. It's his vacation after all. You and your girls are just extras he can add or remove at will.
> _
> That's a bit tough on her sister who wants to go. Also me pulling out at this late stage and wasting all the money he's spent wouldn't be right either. It's not actually 'his' vacation... it's a ski trip with other families. He'll do his own trip with the boys later and he and I also go and do a trip together from time to time. This is definitely supposed to be the annual school holiday family trip.


I’m thinking back to when I was a teenager and would have done anything to get out of “family” vacation trips.
Could this be such a case,is she really bothered about not going?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If your daughter does not go on the trip, where will she be staying and with whom?


----------



## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

I personally think its a little of both. I also think you are at fault as well. Your daughter has now done this 3 times so clearly she didn't learn a lesson. 

Would it be possible to compromise. Allow her on the trip with many restrictions. Maybe she has a curfew of 10pm even if her sibling gets midnight. If there is a big day, maybe you and her stay at the hotel (she can't be trusted alone), while everyone else goes. That would be a punishment not too lax or too harsh.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Personally, I'm with your DH. As long as she will be properly supervised by her father I see no reason she can't stay with him and miss out on the fun ski trip as a consequence for her actions. She behaved very badly. She's lucky the police weren't involved. You're very lucky CPS isn't involved and no one has been charged with a litany of applicable crimes. You're very lucky nothing happened and you aren't about to be sued for every dime you have. What she did is serious. What could have happened is terrifying. Her party could literally have ruined you and your husbands financial future. She seems to desperately need consequences.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Penny905 said:


> I personally think its a little of both. I also think you are at fault as well. Your daughter has now done this 3 times so clearly she didn't learn a lesson.
> 
> Would it be possible to compromise. Allow her on the trip with many restrictions. Maybe she has a curfew of 10pm even if her sibling gets midnight. If there is a big day, maybe you and her stay at the hotel (she can't be trusted alone), while everyone else goes. That would be a punishment not too lax or too harsh.


Are you kidding me?!?!

"I threw my 3rd underage drinking party and as a "punishment" I get to go on a fun ski trip and only have to be in 2 hrs earlier than my siblings!"

That's not a punishment at all.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EllaBella said:


> My husband has booked a 3 week overseas trip for he and I and my two teenage daughters. He's generously paid for everything. We're due to leave in 24 hours. We do these trips every year.
> 
> However, we were away camping on New Years Eve and while we were away, my 17 year old daughter had a low key 'befores' party on NYE. She was told she was not allowed to have any friends over, but she disobeyed and then lied and tried to cover up. This is the third time this has happened. It was pretty dumb of me to trust her, wasn't it.... We realised she'd had friends over when she'd mopped the floors (suspicious), there were 2 beer bottles on the front lawn and beer bottles in the recycle bin. It was disgusting behaviour on her part and I'm furious with her. She has had her phone taken off her, she will not be allowed to have access to the house when we're away (she can go to her dad's) or friends over again until further notice. She's spent the last 2 days in lockdown with me spring cleaning the house.
> 
> ...


So, your daughter had done this twice before and was punished on both occasions. And those punishments didn't work. At all. She did what she wanted to and said: "**** the consequences, because their are no freakin' consequences!"

Presumably your punishment for putting herself and her friends and your home at risk would have been a repeat of the same punishments that didn't work on two previous occasions?

Your husband thinks the punishments need to be stepped up, sort of three strikes and you're out? When would *you* decide the punishment needs to be stepped up? Fourth occasion? Fifth? Or whenever something seriously wrong happens?

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/lincoln-news/im-horrified-mums-shock-after-2241308


> 'I'm horrified' - mum's shock after house totally trashed as daughter hosts party while she's away


This is what your daughter's party could have caused had it been gatecrashed:-


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I wouldn't want to leave my kid alone for 3 weeks and exclude her from a family trip, but that's just me. Cancel her phone contract and sell it. Take her car or license away. Do not let her stay home unsupervised anymore. There are tons of other punishments you can employ here that don't include banishing her from your family for 3 weeks. 

I will admit I am biased though. I grew up with parents who often doled out overly harsh punishments and boy do I remember them, and not in a good way. Having lived it, I wouldn't want to put my kid through that. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

I think I'm with your husband, but I have a question. Did he discuss this with you and your ex H first? I guess it doesn't matter but I think her father should be involved as he will be participating in the discipline while she is with him. She shouldn't be having a nice vaca with fun dad while you are away. 

It sounds like part of your disagreement is that the trip will be less fun for you without her there. Well sometimes consequences for our kids are painful on us too.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

kag123 said:


> I wouldn't want to leave my kid alone for 3 weeks and exclude her from a family trip, but that's just me. Cancel her phone contract and sell it. Take her car or license away. Do not let her stay home unsupervised anymore. There are tons of other punishments you can employ here that don't include banishing her from your family for 3 weeks.
> 
> I will admit I am biased though. I grew up with parents who often doled out overly harsh punishments and boy do I remember them, and not in a good way. Having lived it, I wouldn't want to put my kid through that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


She's not being left alone. She will be with her father.


----------



## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> kag123 said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't want to leave my kid alone for 3 weeks and exclude her from a family trip, but that's just me. Cancel her phone contract and sell it. Take her car or license away. Do not let her stay home unsupervised anymore. There are tons of other punishments you can employ here that don't include banishing her from your family for 3 weeks.
> ...


Is HE aware of that? If my XH called me 24 hours before a trip and told me he was expecting me to just drop whatever plans I had made and take over his parenting time because he and his new wife were going on vacation for almost a month and didn’t think our child deserved to go, he would be told to pound more than sand.


----------



## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

She needs something to shock her into obedience. She needs serious consequences. Plus, I do agree with him, why should she be rewarded now a third time in a row for her rebelliousness? 

The last two times it happened, was it ever discussed what the consequences would be if she did it again? Was she ever told she wouldn’t get to go on the family trip? If she was, then your H is 1000% correct that it should be enforced. 

Think long term on this...kids that end up getting whimpy punishments and boundaries learn that no matter what they do, they can get what they want. That is what you are teaching her. Her step dad wants to make a believer out of her. 

Ask yourself...if she gets left out of the family ski trip, don’t you think that will fully wake her up to know if she chooses to not be a part of the family by not following rules, she also wont get to be a part of the family perks (vacations, phone plans etc)?

By following your husbands lead on this one, you could actually stop a pontentially dangerous course your daughter is already on.


----------



## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Well frankly... this girl could be a bit hard to teach a lesson to or get one thru to. Throws a party she knows she's not supposed to be having because of getting caught before, and she leaves beer bottles in the yard and recycle bin ? Not exactly the brightest bulb or sharpest knife around I guess - or is passive aggressively thumbing her nose at.

Maybe he doesn't really care if she learns a lesson or not. Just wants to enjoy the vacation without having to deal with someone who is obviously disrespecting him - or too selfish/self involved to care. Or possibly really that dumb ?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I bought up three children now all over 31, and while I was strict and agree completely that she needs consequences, I wouldn't go away on holiday with the rest of the family and leave her behind. Your husband isn't her dad either, and I feel its mainly your decision as her mum as to what happens. 
If he made this decision on his own that is even worse, it should at the very least have been discussed and agreed on between you. 

If he refuses I would stay behind with her.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I bought up three children now all over 31, and while I was strict and agree completely that she needs consequences, I wouldn't go away on holiday with the rest of the family and leave her behind. Your husband isn't her dad either, and I feel its mainly your decision as her mum as to what happens.
> If he made this decision on his own that is even worse, it should at the very least have been discussed and agreed on between you.
> 
> If he refuses I would stay behind with her.


Thus confirming that her bad behaviour is not so bad and that her stepdad is nothing but an ol' meanie and can be ignored?

And while the rest of the family are away, maybe mother and daughter could throw a whole series of illegal drinking parties just for ****s and giggles? 

Or should they all boycott the holiday and leave him to go by himself? (And file for divorce when he gets back.)

https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wa...ing-teens-drink-at-wild-wyandotte-house-party


> POLICE: Drunk mom busted for letting teens drink at wild Wyandotte house party


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Thus confirming that her bad behaviour is not so bad and that her stepdad is nothing but an ol' meanie and can be ignored?
> 
> And while the rest of the family are away, maybe mother and daughter could throw a whole series of illegal drinking parties just for ****s and giggles?
> 
> https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wa...ing-teens-drink-at-wild-wyandotte-house-party


She is the girls parent and she needs to make that decision. or at the very least it needed to be agreed on between them which it clearly hasn't been. 

There are many other ways of punishing her which are already being used. 

As for your last comment, too silly to even bother replying to.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> She is the girls parent and she needs to make that decision. or at the very least it needed to be agreed on between them which it clearly hasn't been.
> 
> There are many other ways of punishing her which are already being used.
> 
> As for your last comment, too silly to even bother replying to.


This is why second marriages with kids from previous are so prone to failure. He clearly thinks mom is being soft and that is why this is the third time this has happened. She is forced to chose between the daughter and husband.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

EllaBella said:


> My husband has booked a 3 week overseas trip for he and I and my two teenage daughters. He's generously paid for everything. We're due to leave in 24 hours. We do these trips every year.
> 
> However, we were away camping on New Years Eve and while we were away,


So you just went camping, and then 72 hours later you are going off on a 3 week ski trip? That's kind of exhausting. That might be one reason your husband is so irritated. Maybe you want to pace those trips out a bit.



> my 17 year old daughter had a low key 'befores' party on NYE. She was told she was not allowed to have any friends over, but she disobeyed and then lied and tried to cover up. This is the third time this has happened. It was pretty dumb of me to trust her, wasn't it.... We realised she'd had friends over when she'd mopped the floors (suspicious), there were 2 beer bottles on the front lawn and beer bottles in the recycle bin. It was disgusting behaviour on her part and I'm furious with her. She has had her phone taken off her, she will not be allowed to have access to the house when we're away (she can go to her dad's) or friends over again until further notice. She's spent the last 2 days in lockdown with me spring cleaning the house.


So she lied. But no one was hurt, nothing was damaged, the police weren't called, and she's cleaning it up. So except for the lie, no harm, no foul. 

IMO, it seems a little harsh not to allow her to have any friends over at all, but I don't know her entire history. 



> The problem is my husband is saying she is not coming on the trip with us and has cancelled her ticket. I think this is far too harsh. We're going away with other families with kids her age and it will be so sad for me that she's not there. I had to jump through hoops to get her passport renewed and he's spent so much money on including her in the trip. I think the best thing for her is to get away from her friends and come on a family trip. He's been really telling her off and she's taken it all without answering back, and has been cleaning and trying to make amends. I've begged him to forgive her.


That is awfully harsh, considering there was no real harm done. And it may damage both your relationship with your daughter in the future. She won't be 17 forever. 

Another thing to consider - so if she doesn't come on the trip with you, then she will be alone at home for three weeks? Maybe you should point out to your husband that if she doesn't go with you, she will very likely have more beer drinking parties at home while you are gone!


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

OMG your precious little angel might miss a ski trip. she will be scarred for life. gag.

or, the little brat may actually learn something about responsibility and making sound decisions. 

I wonder which is more important.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Theseus said:


> So you just went camping, and then 72 hours later you are going off on a 3 week ski trip? That's kind of exhausting. That might be one reason your husband is so irritated. Maybe you want to pace those trips out a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I disagree. To my mind, the harm has already been done. The harm is that the daughter has learned that she can do what she wants and that there are no real consequences for her actions.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> She is the girls parent and she needs to make that decision. or at the very least it needed to be agreed on between them which it clearly hasn't been.
> 
> There are many other ways of punishing her which are already being used.
> 
> As for your last comment, too silly to even bother replying to.


_Sigh._ But you did comment on it. 

The punishments her mother used have *failed*. They did not *work*.

It's my guess that she is a little brat and that her stepdad has, for very good reasons, had enough of her naughty behaviour.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

It would have been better for him to discuss it with you first for sure... talked it though and get the reaction out of the final decision but he didn't and so a decision has been made.

Punishment and forgiveness are two separate actions... hard to see the difference when there is so much lost trust.

We often advise here to leave the things that hurt you and it seems he is doing this using the trip as a format of that because he has lost trust in your daughter, then you have lost it in him because of his reaction to that lost trust in her and in time if this continues, he will lose trust in you.

One of you will have to break the cycle... so after 3 times and progressive scolding sometimes karma is simply painful, but this karma isn't ten lashes... it is material, a trip... something fun.

Harsh is perspective... personally I do not find it that harsh at all if all the adults in the room are in agreement (her staying back). What is troubling to me in your opening post is that you stated _"I'm thinking this is something he's doing I will never be able to forgive"_.

What is it you would be struggling to forgive him for exactly?

Be careful of cause and effect... this is really her doing, how much would you chose to own of her poor decisions?

Invest wisely.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@EllaBella Unless your daughter has (wrongly?) assumed that you don't really care about the fact that she had an illegal drinking party at the house?

Who owns the house?


----------



## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

It is clear why she is acting this way. You coddle her. She realizes you wont let her suffer. You need to get some backbone and leave her behind with bio dad. Let her suffer some real consequences. 

At 18, she does that she will be charged as an adult. You better toughen up quick or you will have bigger issues on your hands. She is not your baby. She is almost grown. Why would your risk your relationship with your husband or this?

You and your daughter are wrong.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My answer: She's a little brat -- and you shouldn't have left her alone after two offenses so a lot of this is on you.


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I had a friend whose 5 year old son was a complete monster. Everything she said to him was totally ignored. She'd sit there repeating over and over "Stop, Kyle" or "Sit down, Kyle" or "Be quiet, Kyle" or "Put that down, Kyle" or whatever, while he went right on continuing to do whatever he was doing. She usually resorted to screaming at him, but he ignored that too. While I liked my friend, I considered her the lousiest parent that ever existed.

One day, she asked me to come along with her to a doctor's appointment so that I could do the favor of watching Kyle while she was in with the doctor. And while she was in there, he, of course, began to misbehave. He scattered the magazines that were spread in organized fashion on the waiting room's center table. I didn't say anything, just sat there and watched him, wondering just how far he would push his boundaries. But then he headed toward the magazine rack, and I imagined they would soon end up all over the floor, so I told him to "come and sit down." But, of course, he ignored me just like he was accustomed to ignoring his mother. So, I went and picked him up and brought him back into his chair. He tried to get up, but I stopped him and let him know in no uncertain terms "Oh no, buddy. I am not your mother. You do not have the option of disobeying me." He tried again and I pulled him back into his chair. On his third try, I squoze his hand very tightly and told him "I mean what I say." After that, he sat there quietly and didn't test me anymore.

"You do no have the option of disobeying me."

That's how you should feel. But in direct relation to your situation, it has gotten to the point of being the way your husband feels. She's your kid, so you can coddle her all you want. Just like Kyle, your daughter is the monster that you created. But she's not your husband's kid, and he's totally fed up with her. 

He has no desire to be your daughter's defacto doormat.

And he has every right to feel that way. I wouldn't pay someone's way who has ignored my wishes and my rules. I wouldn't want to be around that kid at all at this point. Someone already mentioned that this is the way it goes in step families, and it truly is typical. Parents have a connection that other people don't. No matter how much your husband might love and care about your kids, he's not in possession of the guilt factor that parents possess. And it's the guilt factor that's tearing you to pieces at the thought of your precious snowflake missing out on the trip.

You need to screw your head on straight and think with your ability to reason rather than your emotions. It's a freaking ski trip and hardly a rite of passage. She will only be missing out on fun, which is the whole point of punishment. Instead of thinking you should be able to pick and choose the fun things to take away from her as punishment, start thinking of it in terms of this being the period of punishment (until further notice, remember?), so the ski trip falls within that period. Even if you placed a definite time, like 3 weeks or 2 months or whatever (which is what you should do) for her to be on punishment, the trip would still fall within that time frame. That time frame is supposed to be all inclusive, so no phone during that time, no company during that time, no television or wifi during that time, no ski trip during that time, nothing fun/engaging/socializing at all during that time. 

You are too soft on her. This is one of those occasions where the parent might say to their kid "This is going to hurt me more than hurts you." No child can possibly relate to that because the punishment is excruciating for her, as it should be. But it's excruciating for you too, and it should be because as much as it bothers you to punish her as completely as you should, you still don't want to do it, but it has to be done.

17 year old daughter does not get to go on the trip. Screw your head on straight so you can forgive your husband and be able to have a good time yourself. Nobody needs your sulking and acting like a 17 year old to ruin their vacation.

On a separate note:
I know it can be hard sometimes to get all of your thoughts and all of the details put down in one forum posting, so I realize that it may have been an oversight that you didn't mention it, or it may not have transpired at all. I don't know which, so I'm asking if your daughter has apologized and if not, then why have you not made her? You said she has been behaving in contrite and cooperative manner, but has she actually said she's sorry to you AND your husband?


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

EllaBella said:


> _Your husband has stated his position so basically you have a choice. You can choose to leave your daughter behind with her biological father while you and your husband go have fun skiing with her sister and friends. Or you can stay behind with her and let your husband go skiing with his friends. That's it.
> 
> Personally, I would stick with my daughters and let the husband go on vacation alone. It's his vacation after all. You and your girls are just extras he can add or remove at will.
> _
> That's a bit tough on her sister who wants to go. Also me pulling out at this late stage and wasting all the money he's spent wouldn't be right either. It's not actually 'his' vacation... it's a ski trip with other families. He'll do his own trip with the boys later and he and I also go and do a trip together from time to time. This is definitely supposed to be the annual school holiday family trip.


It's too bad your husband picked this hill to die on, because the trip was planned before the bad behavior. So if it was just never brought up in the punishment discussion, it would NOT be "rewarding bad behavior."

And you and some others made a great point about her being WITH THE FAMILY being valuable. The more good times she spends with you and your husband the better. Making life memories that involve family and fun instead of just teens and booze. Bonding as a family is so important.

With that said, I don't think your husband is *wrong* in not wanting to take her. Like many 17 year olds, she does not appreciate the liability her little party caused. Apparently it will take something serious to get through to her. I would not have trouble forgiving him for that, but I would have trouble forgiving him for making a unilateral decision that affected you and your daughter without your consent/agreement.

And I would definitely have a problem with him continually telling her off. That is not discipline and it is not productive in any way.

Blended families are HARD. Having been married 8 years, do the two of you have any concrete agreement on discipline? Who disciplines who's kids and in what way?

I disagree with people that say the children come before the spouse. I think the spouse is #1 or everything else falls apart and if your H feels like you are letting your daughter behave in a way that makes him uncomfortable, he is going to become extremely resentful of said child. Part of the spouse being #1 too though is your H taking your feelings and parenting wishes into concern too.

Is there any way you can renegotiate her discipline and make it so that this trip is just not part of it, and she knows she is getting to go because her presence is important as part of your family. This is supposed to be fun but also to strengthen the family and she needs to forget about her silly friends for awhile and see what is truly important in life. Her family is forever, her beer drinking buddies are not. That's really hard to understand at 17.


----------



## EllaBella (Apr 13, 2016)

I am so grateful to all you beautiful, smart people for taking the time to give me such insightful comments. It's given me perspective on this and stopped me having a meltdown. Thank you.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EllaBella said:


> I am so grateful to all you beautiful, smart people for taking the time to give me such insightful comments. It's given me perspective on this and stopped me having a meltdown. Thank you.


I hope you can all work something out.


----------



## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I will ditto MattMatt on most all he has posted. And add that I ditched my second wife who couldn't / wouldn't discipline her kids and put them above me and mine. "I didn't understand". 8 years later her and her 3 kids (now all adults) are still making excuses for each other and nowhere in life. One of best decisions I have made in life. 

At times I miss that wife. But not the drama, arguments about, and being taken advantage of. Please review and consider the situation carefully. Very best wishes.


----------



## EllaBella (Apr 13, 2016)

I really changed my attitude after thinking over what all you guys said. I saw it from another point of view and you saved me from possibly turning all of this into a massive catastrophic fight. 

I arranged for her to go to my sister's place in the country and spend time with her grandparents.

But as it turns out, my husband has now agreed to let her come on the trip. I do think it's the best thing that she comes on the trip to get away from her friends and bond together as a family. 

We leave in 7 hours so I can't respond as I would like to all your brilliant comments, but I am so grateful. 

Right now she's doing the washing, is sulking because I've not allowed her to go to the beach with friend, and I'm standing firm on not giving her her smart phone back. She's mad at me, but it's time I stopped being such a passive parent for her sake. When we get back, she'll lose the privilege of having friends visit at our place and won't have access to the house when we're away. I'm replacing the smart phone with a normal phone (this will really help with focusing on her last year of school, too. Smart phones are so addictive.)


----------



## EllaBella (Apr 13, 2016)

Just wanted to clarify that it wasn't a big blowout party. She has done that only once and then learned the lesson that parties can get much bigger than you expected and she hasn't done it again. The second and third time was more like a group of close friends coming over for the 'pre-get-together' before they all went to another house for the NYE party. I'm not excusing what she did, and she wasn't allowed to do it, but it's not the case of a kid recklessly and willfully throwing a big, damaging party.


----------



## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Have a great trip!


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

GOOD JOB MOM! Make sure you make sure your H knows he is #1 and you care that he is good with his decision. Putting your marriage ahead of your child will actually provide more stability for your child.

I really applaud you on the "bye-bye smart phone" choice too. Yes they are addictive, and also, all kinds of studies and reports are coming out indicating they (and the social media access they provide) cause unhappiness and impair mental development. Adults my age (50's) who grew up without them can't handle them -- how are 17 years olds supposed to? A lot of young adults today can't have a normal conversation with a stranger -- or friends -- because they've had no real practice at it.




EllaBella said:


> I really changed my attitude after thinking over what all you guys said. I saw it from another point of view and you saved me from possibly turning all of this into a massive catastrophic fight.
> 
> I arranged for her to go to my sister's place in the country and spend time with her grandparents.
> 
> ...


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EllaBella said:


> Just wanted to clarify that it wasn't a big blowout party. She has done that only once and then learned the lesson that parties can get much bigger than you expected and she hasn't done it again. The second and third time was more like a group of close friends coming over for the 'pre-get-together' before they all went to another house for the NYE party. I'm not excusing what she did, and she wasn't allowed to do it, but it's not the case of a kid recklessly and willfully throwing a big, damaging party.


The problem is when a private party is gatecrashed.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

don't worry you will be able to forgive him at least 3 times.


----------



## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

I am shocked at the responses here. It’s like none of you were teenagers before. 

Hey everyone, let’s go through the photo album. Remember this trip 15 years ago? Oh, you weren’t in the pictures cause you had some friends over at 27 and drank some beer. We now have all these memories without you.

It’s not like she is a child. She is borderline able to go off on her own. She did this 3 times before, but is she a problem child? Is she failing school? Does he have 4 babies and a heroine problem? Jesus, this is ridiculous. Sure, punish the kid. Don’t kick her out of the family for 3 weeks. You want consequences, fine. No phone, no car...not no love. This is the type of **** that burns at a person. Something she will remember forever. Wow, what a lesson she needed for drinking some beers with friends. 

The reaction to this is nuts. Oh, and I am a hardass on my boys. I’m just not an ahole to them. Well, usually not.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Herschel said:


> I am shocked at the responses here. It’s like none of you were teenagers before.
> 
> Hey everyone, let’s go through the photo album. Remember this trip 15 years ago? Oh, you weren’t in the pictures cause you had some friends over at 27 and drank some beer. We now have all these memories without you.
> 
> ...


You answered your own question right there. 

Yes, I was a teenager once. And much more recently, my very own teenage daughter did exactly this... once. 

While I'm not entirely sure I'm on board with the chosen punishment, it's false to equate leaving her out of a ski trip with "no love."


----------



## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> You answered your own question right there.
> 
> Yes, I was a teenager once. And much more recently, my very own teenage daughter did exactly this... once.
> 
> While I'm not entirely sure I'm on board with the chosen punishment, it's false to equate leaving her out of a ski trip with "no love."


I agree with you, except, I was analyzing it from her perspective. That’s how she feels.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Hope your trip is starting without any glitches.

Glad your husband decided the daughter can come on the family trip.

What she did was pretty serious IMO, and doing it for the 3rd time made it worse. The thing that kept coming to mind is that for the punishment(s) to be effective, they need to match the crime. Not letting her go on a family trip doesn't have much to do with her 'crime.'

She used the phone for contacting kids - take it away. (Which you have.)

She used FB to advertise the party - take it away. (Which you have by taking away the smart phone.)

She used the house for her party when you weren't home - next time make her stay at a family member's house, and don't give her keys to the house.

Her friends left trash in the yard - make her clean, mow, etc. the yard.

He left alcohol bottles in the recycle trash. - make her take the recycling to the pick-up point.

She had an underage drinking party - have her volunteer for a charity that is against underage drinking. Or for a homeless shelter, since there are plenty of people there who drink a lot and probably started as youths.

I'm glad you didn't blow up your marriage over your teenage daughter. She would be considered an adult during a different era. She is becoming her own person now, not a child anymore. She really needs to be held accountable, not coddled, as others said. Love doesn't need to stop, but enabling behavior does. Letting her go on the vacation shows her love, especially since the vacation has little to do with her party/breaking trust.

Have a wonderful time!


----------



## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I for one think your daughter should thank her lucky stars for the step dad she has.


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

What she did is serious in this day and age because of the liability it creates. But yeah, I kept reading some of these responses thinking - was I the only teen who drank beer with friends when mom wasn't home? Was I the only teenager who took being told not to do something to mean "be careful I don't get caught."

If I had the house to myself at 17 and a few friends wanted to swing by for a bit I would have felt like I was doing nothing wrong as long as my parents were never burdened with the information that it happened. And I'm a REALLY honest person compared to most...

But still the step dad has the right to be upset. It's NO FUN being a step parent and feeling like you have no control over the discipline of these people who affect your life and marriage. Been there done that too.






Herschel said:


> I am shocked at the responses here. It’s like none of you were teenagers before.
> 
> Hey everyone, let’s go through the photo album. Remember this trip 15 years ago? Oh, you weren’t in the pictures cause you had some friends over at 27 and drank some beer. We now have all these memories without you.
> 
> ...


----------



## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Actions have consequences........I agree with hubby


----------



## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> The problem is when a private is gatecrashed.


The problem is she has a pattern of this type of behavior. She has a problem and mom is only making it worse by ignoring it. Teenager or not. She ONLY did it THREE times.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SO glad that this is sorted and that she can come.


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Herschel said:


> I am shocked at the responses here. It’s like none of you were teenagers before.
> 
> Hey everyone, let’s go through the photo album. Remember this trip 15 years ago? Oh, you weren’t in the pictures cause you had some friends over at 27 and drank some beer. We now have all these memories without you.
> 
> ...


You're minimizing and trivializing a THIRD offense of something she was told twice not to do and twice already got into trouble for. And it's kind of lame to make it seem like being absent from the pictures will be so traumatizing. Nobody is in every photo that contains other family members, and this will hardly be the only family vacation she would have missed out on. Some will be of her own decision or other obligations.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

EllaBella said:


> I really changed my attitude after thinking over what all you guys said. I saw it from another point of view and you saved me from possibly turning all of this into a massive catastrophic fight.
> 
> I arranged for her to go to my sister's place in the country and spend time with her grandparents.
> 
> ...


Not what I would have done, but I'm glad you and your husband have worked this out.

I really hope that you won't let this all slide while you're away. Don't let her have her phone, don't let her be or go anywhere unsupervised and when she complains about it remind her why.


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

frusdil said:


> Not what I would have done, but I'm glad you and your husband have worked this out.
> 
> I really hope that you won't let this all slide while you're away. Don't let her have her phone, don't let her be or go anywhere unsupervised and when she complains about it remind her why.


errrr Now THAT is really cruel. I also said she shouldn't be allowed on the trip. But since he changed his mind (although mama still should have prevented her), she's there now. She's on vacation and should be allowed to enjoy it. She should be able to take pictures and needs her phone for that. Nobody should be on punishment while on vacation. It's a contradiction in terms and not only cruel but pretty silly too.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

StarFires said:


> errrr Now THAT is really cruel. I also said she shouldn't be allowed on the trip. But since he changed his mind (although mama still should have prevented her), she's there now. She's on vacation and should be allowed to enjoy it. She should be able to take pictures and needs her phone for that. Nobody should be on punishment while on vacation. It's a contradiction in terms and not only cruel but pretty silly too.


So just let her get away with it for the THIRD time? I don't think so.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Actions should have consequences. Letting her constantly get away with things is why we have the entitlement society we have now. I do agree the punishments should be discussed between both parents though and agreed upon. Glad you both worked this out but wish it had been compromised behind the scene without the daughters knowledge. She may have taken this as a win.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

> She should be able to take pictures and needs her phone for that.


Oh brother.

Good forbid Miss Thang can't take those self-indulgent teenage selfies every 2.5 minutes to post online. God FORBID.

What a *travesty*!!!


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> > She should be able to take pictures and needs her phone for that.
> 
> 
> Oh brother.
> ...


I agree. She can live without a phone. Millions of teens went on family vacations before the advent of phones and managed to survive and enjoy the vacation just fine.

This was a serious event. If there had been an accident, at the house or on the road after the illegal drinking, the homeowner would have been liable. It's way way more than a matter of she disobeyed re a party and didn't clean up properly.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I have a soon-to-be 17 year old in a couple weeks so this is something that can kind of relate to. 

I see several different points and angles here.

- yes, she is being coddled too much and the drinking and parties and bad behavior are being rugswept and exposing the home and family to serious legal and financial liabilities. 

- yes, I can remember being a teenager 30+ years ago and sneaking alcohol out of the house and having friends over when my parents were out of town. But we live in a completely different legal climate today. Underage drinking was poo-poo'd by society and the legal community years ago. In today's legal climate it is taken seriously and serious actions and repercussions will occur for allowing underage drinking to occur. 

- As she has shown a pattern of reckless, rebellious and illegal behavior, she does need to face serious consequences and be held accountable for her behavior. 

-As your H is not her biological and I assume also not her legally adoptive father that means he can spend his time and his money on whoever he wants and is not obligated to cater to the daughter and if she is showing disrespectful and inappropriate behavior towards him and the home, he is within his right to not include her in his functions and endeavors. As the daughter is a subadult, if she wants the H to include her as part of his circle and provide any kind of consideration for her, she is going to have show him due respect and curtesy. 

Likewise if he wants to be accepted into his wife's family, he is also going to have to show proper curtesy and inclusion. 

Both of them are going to have to meet each other halfway. 

- HOWEVER ….. I do believe that for the sake of family sanctity and long term cohesion, I do not believe that barring her from a planned family function is an appropriate disciplinary method. 
I disagree with this method for a couple different reasons


#1 is regardless of how it is stated, it is giving the message that she is not loved or accepted as a family member if she does something wrong. It is one thing to ground someone and take away their privileges and bar them seeing friends for a specified period of time vs conveying the message that they are no longer a part of the family and longer again to partake in planned family activities. Not feeling a sense of ownership and belonging in a family unit will contribute to rebelliousness and inappropriate behavior MORE rather than less. 


#2. since she has shown a pattern of inappropriate and potentially destructive behavior when not properly supervised, leaving her home and leaving her feeling shunned and left out will actually increase the potential of her doing something stupid and potentially dangerous/illegal etc rather than taking her along where she will not only be included in the family function but can also be better supervised. 

#3. I was a rebellious and at times inappropriate teenager and I can say from firsthand experience that being forced to go on family outings because I couldn't be trusted to stay home WAS THE PUNISHMENT. If I couldn't be trusted to behave appropriately without supervision, then I would have to remain with the family and that was far worse than any grounding or the loss of any gadgetry or privileges.


----------



## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Oh brother.
> 
> Good forbid Miss Thang can't take those self-indulgent teenage selfies every 2.5 minutes to post online. God FORBID.
> 
> What a *travesty*!!!



Problem solved:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fujifilm-Disposable-35mm-Camera-With-Flash-2-Pack/11019775


----------

