# MARRIAGE IS JUST A PIECE OF PAPER



## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love. I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen. But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise. 

I'm just so heartbroken. Should getting married to someone you love be so unachievable & unreachable?? Should getting married for love be that hard?? Does it sound like he is just pretending that "we will get married oneday" when really it means he is just saying that knowing full well he never wants that to happen??


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SELENA700 said:


> Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love. I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen. But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.
> 
> I'm just so heartbroken. Should getting married to someone you love be so unachievable & unreachable?? Should getting married for love be that hard?? Does it sound like he is just pretending that "we will get married oneday" when really it means he is just saying that knowing full well he never wants that to happen??


Your boyfriend is putting your down with excuses, claiming that you are not good enough. Why would you stay with someone who disrespects you and insults you like this?

He has no plans of ever marrying you. All he has to do is insult you and you will stop asking him about it for a while.

Please don't have any more children with him. This will get worse with every child you have because you will be more and more dependent on him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, please change your avatar picture to something less racy.

Does your boyfriend now that you are on social media posting image like that of yourself?


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Please don't have any more children with him. This will get worse with every child you have because you will be more and more dependent on him.


100% agree


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

@SELENA700 

My wife and I have been married for almost 28 years and I have seen it far more than just a piece of paper (My journal is in the Success in Long term Marriage subforum). It can be a struggle at times but when you understand how to live and love someone that long, it gets to the point you can‘t imagine not being married to them. So, I can’t understand your bf‘s thinking other than you are his squeeze at the moment. I fear you may be very disappointed someday when he finds someone he loves other than you. You may want to consider you options now. And like @EleGirl expressed, do not have anymore children with this guy.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> Your boyfriend is putting your down with excuses, claiming that you are not good enough. Why would you stay with someone who disrespects you and insults you like this?
> 
> He has no plans of ever marrying you. All he has to do is insult you and you will stop asking him about it for a while.
> 
> Please don't have any more children with him. This will get worse with every child you have because you will be more and more dependent on him.


Yeah he is only just making it sort clear now that he doesn't ever really want marriage. I feel trapped coz I can't just break up the family coz I didn't get my way about marriage, thats not fair on the kids.

Unfortunately I have choice but to ride it out, make sure the kids are happy, healthy & safe. Coz I know now I'll never get a chance to get married. I live in New Zealand. I'm also hearing about how there are so many benefits in America if u get married. I'm not sure if we have those same benefits.

He said "I don't need the government to tell me that we are married. I don't want labels like husband & wife. Why can't loving each other be enough??"

I think in NZ whether u are married or just a defacto couple. By law if u break up you both still have split things 50/50 if u divorce. So him saying he ìs worried about divorce, we would be in the same position if we break up as just bf & gf.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

Ikaika said:


> @SELENA700
> 
> My wife and I have been married for almost 28 years and I have seen it far more than just a piece of paper (My journal is in the Success in Long term Marriage subforum). It can be a struggle at times but when you understand how to live and love someone that long, it gets to the point you can‘t imagine not being married to them. So, I can’t understand your bf‘s thinking other than you are his squeeze at the moment. I fear you may be very disappointed someday when he finds someone he loves other than you. You may want to consider you options now. And like @EleGirl expressed, do not have anymore children with this guy.


Thanks. I feel trapped, so hard to up and leave someone coz I didn't get my way about marriage. I believe marriage is way more than just a piece of paper. Its a celebration of your love for each other, symbol of commitment & love. But he said "We don't need labels, I don't need a piece of paper to tell me to call each other husband & wife. Why can't loving each other be enough. Back in the old day, marriage was about control. Most marriages today end in divorce & it'll just get messy & ugly" 

As I said in another response. In America, married couples have lots of benefits. But in New Zealand I don't think we have the same benefits. But here if u are married or in a defacto relationship you still have split everything 50/50 regardless if u are married or not. So I'm not sure why he is too worried about the legal side.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SELENA700 said:


> Yeah he is only just making it sort clear now that he doesn't ever really want marriage. I feel trapped coz I can't just break up the family coz I didn't get my way about marriage, thats not fair on the kids.
> 
> Unfortunately I have choice but to ride it out, make sure the kids are happy, healthy & safe. Coz I know now I'll never get a chance to get married. I live in New Zealand. I'm also hearing about how there are so many benefits in America if u get married. I'm not sure if we have those same benefits.
> 
> ...


Yea, NZ has what we call common law marriage. It's called de facto relationship in NZ. 
What is a de facto relationship? » Smith and Partners Lawyers (smithpartners.co.nz)

You might want to read up on this and find out what you need to do to make sure your relationship is considered a defacto relationship. I'm sure there are websites that go into this in detail. I think on of the rules is that you have to put yourselves out there as a couple/"married".

Then once you know your legal rights, perhaps you could tell him that under the law your relationship is equivalent to a marriage.

A marriage license is not just a piece of paper. It establishes the legal, financial, and family relationship between you two and your children. The law dictates who assets are held, your (both of you) rights to inheritance, rights to handle each other's health issues if one of you is incapacitated, and a lot more. 

Common law (or defacto marriage) comes from the days when there were a lot of people living in the middle of nowhere. Often times it would be years before a priest/preacher came along who could perform the marriage. A couple would just start living together and everyone knew that they were basically the same as married. There's a long history of this type of 'relationship/marriage'.

Do you have a job and earn any income? Or are you completely dependent on him financially?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SELENA700 said:


> Thanks. I feel trapped, so hard to up and leave someone coz I didn't get my way about marriage. I believe marriage is way more than just a piece of paper. Its a celebration of your love for each other, symbol of commitment & love. But he said "We don't need labels, I don't need a piece of paper to tell me to call each other husband & wife. Why can't loving each other be enough. Back in the old day, marriage was about control. Most marriages today end in divorce & it'll just get messy & ugly"


It's not true that most marriages today end in divorce. Also, divorce rates have been falling over the last few decades.



SELENA700 said:


> As I said in another response. In America, married couples have lots of benefits. But in New Zealand I don't think we have the same benefits. But here if u are married or in a defacto relationship you still have split everything 50/50 regardless if u are married or not. So I'm not sure why he is too worried about the legal side.


I think you do have the same rights as under marriage.

NZLS | Dividing up Relationship Property (lawsociety.org.nz)


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

SELENA700 said:


> Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love. I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen. But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.
> 
> I'm just so heartbroken. Should getting married to someone you love be so unachievable & unreachable?? Should getting married for love be that hard?? Does it sound like he is just pretending that "we will get married oneday" when really it means he is just saying that knowing full well he never wants that to happen??


Oh honey, I'm so sorry. Marriage is so much more than a piece of paper, it's a commitment to someone you chose out of all the people in the world, to build a life with. It's precious and something to be highly valued. 

I echo the others, please don't have anymore children with him. And don't let him tell you "see? I told you, you're not consistent, nope, no wedding". He's dangling the prospect of marriage in front of you to make you comply. He'll just keep moving the goalposts, you need to understand that.



SELENA700 said:


> He said "I don't need the government to tell me that we are married. I don't want labels like husband & wife. Why can't loving each other be enough??"


That's just an excuse for you being a placeholder. It's the same as when two people have been dating for a while and one of them brings up the "where is this going, what are we to each other?" and the other responds with "Why do you have to label everything? Why can't we just keep things as they are?" ie "why can't we just keep it casual and shag others if we (they really mean I) want to?"



EleGirl said:


> It's not true that most marriages today end in divorce. Also, divorce rates have been falling over the last few decades.
> 
> *I think you do have the same rights as under marriage.*
> 
> NZLS | Dividing up Relationship Property (lawsociety.org.nz)


Yes they do, same here in Aus.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your bf that you have kids with—- if he loved you, his mindset would be completely different. He would feel the following:
1 he’d be DYING to marry you and let the world know that you were HIS lady.
2 whatever you wanted within reason, if he knew it you’d never have to ask because your desires would be his as well
3 he’d NEVER say things like he’s said to ask for you to prove yourself worthy, he’d be too busy proving himself worthy of YOU.

I think he is using you as a place holder but secretly hopes someone will come along that checks all his boxes and he is crazy about, and if that happens (it won’t, he’s lousy and nobody probably wants him but you) he will drop you.
I also think he is using the reward of a proposal to manipulate you into supplying all his wants.
A man that loves you would never consider such a thing. 

You aren’t forced to stay with him. Don’t squander your life with this guy.
Find a man who treasures you. The right one will be asking for your hand, even begging.
He’s not the one.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

SELENA700 said:


> Thanks. I feel trapped, so hard to up and leave someone coz I didn't get my way about marriage. I believe marriage is way more than just a piece of paper. Its a celebration of your love for each other, symbol of commitment & love. But he said "We don't need labels, I don't need a piece of paper to tell me to call each other husband & wife. Why can't loving each other be enough. Back in the old day, marriage was about control. Most marriages today end in divorce & it'll just get messy & ugly"
> 
> As I said in another response. In America, married couples have lots of benefits. But in New Zealand I don't think we have the same benefits. But here if u are married or in a defacto relationship you still have split everything 50/50 regardless if u are married or not. So I'm not sure why he is too worried about the legal side.


Any man that says that marriage is just a piece of paper is just keeping you around until something better comes along.|
If he thinks you're the best and is afraid to lose you, why wouldn't he want that piece of paper?


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> Yea, NZ has what we call common law marriage. It's called de facto relationship in NZ.
> What is a de facto relationship? » Smith and Partners Lawyers (smithpartners.co.nz)
> 
> You might want to read up on this and find out what you need to do to make sure your relationship is considered a defacto relationship. I'm sure there are websites that go into this in detail. I think on of the rules is that you have to put yourselves out there as a couple/"married".
> ...


I dont think he realises the legal is not really different between married and unmarried couples. 

He promised me we would get married but then changed the goal posts. Nah, currently I don't have a job. I've been looking after the kids, then got diagnosed with a medical condition. I have found a job I'm going to apply for. When I told him about it that's when he put an extension on getting married. He said we will wait oneday til u get a pay rise.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

jonty30 said:


> Any man that says that marriage is just a piece of paper is just keeping you around until something better comes along.|
> If he thinks you're the best and is afraid to lose you, why wouldn't he want that piece of paper?



Yeah exactly. Fully agree. Unfortunately, deep down I think he is deliberately hating on marriage so that in future he can just up and leave whenever he wants, without being legally associated with me through marriage.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your bf that you have kids with—- if he loved you, his mindset would be completely different. He would feel the following:
> 1 he’d be DYING to marry you and let the world know that you were HIS lady.
> 2 whatever you wanted within reason, if he knew it you’d never have to ask because your desires would be his as well
> 3 he’d NEVER say things like he’s said to ask for you to prove yourself worthy, he’d be too busy proving himself worthy of YOU.
> ...


He makes excuses like "Why do we need to publicly show everyone that we are married?? Why do u care what other people think about our relationship?? Whats wrong with calling you my "partner" "missus" how is that any different in respect from someone who says "wife or husband??"

I agree, he is using the marriage debate as an excuse to get away with not getting married. Doesn't want to associated with me through marriage, so that he can leave whenever. 

I personally don't want to leave someone just over a dispute about marriage. I don't want to hurt the kids by breaking up a family.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

SELENA700 said:


> But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.


This is how you know he is full of crap, he contradicts himself. First he says he doesn't believe in marriage, but then he says he will marry you if you do x, y, and z for him. Which is it?

I don't think your guy plans to marry you. I think he is just trying to get you to step up your game to make him even happier, but he will then move the goalposts on you. If he was against marriage, he would say that. He just doesn't want to marry YOU. I'm sorry.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

Enigma32 said:


> This is how you know he is full of crap, he contradicts himself. First he says he doesn't believe in marriage, but then he says he will marry you if you do x, y, and z for him. Which is it?
> 
> I don't think your guy plans to marry you. I think he is just trying to get you to step up your game to make him even happier, but he will then move the goalposts on you. If he was against marriage, he would say that. He just doesn't want to marry YOU. I'm sorry.


Yeah he just keeps changing his mind over and over. I don't think he wants to marry me. Think he wants to keep his options open. So he can freely leave whenever to marry whoever he wants. 

He tricked me, we had kids which was to lead to marriage. So I will follow through with looking after the kids, keep them safe & healthy. Once they are settled in their adult lives, if my bf is still mucking me around. I'll leave and find someone who actually will marry for love.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

SELENA700 said:


> Yeah he just keeps changing his mind over and over. I don't think he wants to marry me. Think he wants to keep his options open. So he can freely leave whenever to marry whoever he wants.
> 
> He tricked me, we had kids which was to lead to marriage. So I will follow through with looking after the kids, keep them safe & healthy. Once they are settled in their adult lives, if my bf is still mucking me around. I'll leave and find someone who actually will marry for love.


Yeah, he's moving the goalposts. First he needed kids, now he needs you to do more around the house, etc. He's dangling that hope in front of you to keep you around. That's what it seems like to me.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Medical condition …. No job…..
Care to elaborate?


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

Enigma32 said:


> Yeah, he's moving the goalposts. First he needed kids, now he needs you to do more around the house, etc. He's dangling that hope in front of you to keep you around. That's what it seems like to me.


I just don't get why he is bothering to hang around me, if he doesn't love me, doesn't want to marry me. He could do just fine on his own without me.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

SELENA700 said:


> I just don't get why he is bothering to hang around me, if he doesn't love me, doesn't want to marry me. He could do just fine on his own without me.


Not motivated.
No options at the moment.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

frusdil said:


> Oh honey, I'm so sorry. Marriage is so much more than a piece of paper, it's a commitment to someone you chose out of all the people in the world, to build a life with. It's precious and something to be highly valued.
> 
> I echo the others, please don't have anymore children with him. And don't let him tell you "see? I told you, you're not consistent, nope, no wedding". He's dangling the prospect of marriage in front of you to make you comply. He'll just keep moving the goalposts, you need to understand that.
> 
> ...



I fully 100% believe marriage is more than just a piece of paper. I love how its a celebration of love & commitment to each other. Acknowledging each other as husband & wife is just a next level sign of respect and love. He seems to think its no different to calling each other "partner and missus"


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

SELENA700 said:


> I fully 100% believe marriage is more than just a piece of paper. I love how its a celebration of love & commitment to each other. Acknowledging each other as husband & wife is just a next level sign of respect and love. He seems to think its no different to calling each other "partner and missus"


There are three basic reasons why a man does not marry.
1. He wants his options open.
2. You're not going anywhere.
3. He's afraid of what could happen if he did marry and ended up divorced.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

jonty30 said:


> There are three basic reasons why a man does not marry.
> 1. He wants his options open.
> 2. You're not going anywhere.
> 3. He's afraid of what could happen if he did marry and ended up divorced.


I think for him. He is all 3 of those things, especially #1


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

You’ve already given him two kids. His DNA has been passed on. Why would he marry now? Fewer people are getting married these days. I would get a job, start saving and prepare for the eventual day he walks out.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> You’ve already given him two kids. His DNA has been passed on. Why would he marry now? Fewer people are getting married these days. I would get a job, start saving and prepare for the eventual day he walks out.


True. Marriage is definitely out of the question. For now I'll just focus on looking after the kids. Once they're adults, happy & healthy. Then I can focus on me, find love oneday and get married


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Keep in mind that your children are learning about how "marriage" and a family work by watching what you and he do. They are learning that the way he is treating you is all there is. If you have a son, your son will most likely grow up with his attitude. If you have a daughter, you are teaching her that this is all taht she can expect in life... that she can't really expect to be loved and even get married.

When I left my son's father, one of the reasons I did was to teach my son that if a man mistreats a woman, he will lose her. I wanted him to learn that in a relationship/marriage and family it's important for treat each other with love and respect.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> Keep in mind that your children are learning about how "marriage" and a family work by watching what you and he do. They are learning that the way he is treating you is all there is. If you have a son, your son will most likely grow up with his attitude. If you have a daughter, you are teaching her that this is all taht she can expect in life... that she can't really expect to be loved and even get married.
> 
> When I left my son's father, one of the reasons I did was to teach my son that if a man mistreats a woman, he will lose her. I wanted him to learn that in a relationship/marriage and family it's important for treat each other with love and respect.


Huge respect for you doing that. It takes courage. I'm not ready to leave. Once the kids are older and adults & settled with their lives. Then I can explain to them as to why I need to leave. Then I can have a chance to find real love and get married. But as they grow up, I will keep reminding them they deserve love and marriage for their future & to be mucked around like I have.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I too left my kids father when they were 5 and 2 because he was a nasty drunk. I'd been at home for 5 years and got a job.

Today they are 21 and 19 and doing well. I make 6 figures and own my own house, and I have a lovely bf.

If you're not ready to go that's up to you, but I think you need to reframe this. Your bf thinks he can possibly do better then you and isn't good husband material for you. Stop worrying about marriage and if he happens to ask why you're not bringing it up tell him you've given it some thought and have decided you don't want to marry him either. You have an unbalanced power dynamic where he has all of it and you beg for crumbs. Not healthy.

Get a job and start working toward supporting yourself. My kids went to daycare and they loved it...heaven forbid I picked then up during play doh time! I spent most of my non working hours with them and today the three of us are thick as thieves.

Stop begging this guy for scraps and put your own life together.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> I too left my kids father when they were 5 and 2 because he was a nasty drunk. I'd been at home for 5 years and got a job.
> 
> Today they are 21 and 19 and doing well. I make 6 figures and own my own house, and I have a lovely bf.
> 
> ...



That is amazing, so happy for you and your family. Yeah I'm definitely not ready to leave yet. I'm just confused as to why shows love for me in other aspects. I have a medical condition and he is so amazing & caring towards that & so helpful. But his love suddenly stops whenever it has anything to do with marriage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

SELENA700 said:


> He said we can get married *when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise*.


Do you really want to get married to a guy like this? How much crap do people put up with?


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Do you really want to get married to a guy like this? How much crap do people put up with?


I did want to get married to the guy who I fell in love with. He is amazing with the kids, he helps me when I'm in extreme pain coz of my medical condition, he works hard. But I don't want to marry him anymore bcoz I'm the one who loved him unconditionally. He is the one who loves selectively with conditions.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

SELENA700 said:


> I did want to get married to the guy who I fell in love with. He is amazing with the kids, he helps me when I'm in extreme pain coz of my medical condition, he works hard. But I don't want to marry him anymore bcoz I'm the one who loved him unconditionally. He is the one who loves selectively with conditions.


What do you mean by being "consistent with the housework and cooking"?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

SELENA700 said:


> Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love. I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen. But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.
> 
> I'm just so heartbroken. Should getting married to someone you love be so unachievable & unreachable?? Should getting married for love be that hard?? Does it sound like he is just pretending that "we will get married oneday" when really it means he is just saying that knowing full well he never wants that to happen??


He sounds like he's just using you take care of him and his needs. He does not sound like a man in love at all. I don't know why you would even consider having more children with him. To him marriage is just a piece of paper. He doesn't seem capable of commitment or equal partnership. He is just leveraging your desire to get married to have you do more for him.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> What do you mean by being "consistent with the housework and cooking"?


He wants me to cook & clean to his standards. For example I wasn't stacking the dishes away properly the way he wants it done. It doesn't make sense though. I do cook for him, most nights he will just order uber eats instead of eating what I've cooked. When I clean the dishes, we don't have a dishwasher. So I stack the dishes to air dry for a bit. But according to him I don't put them away quick enough.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He sounds like he's just using you take care of him and his needs. He does not sound like a man in love at all. I don't know why you would even consider having more children with him. To him marriage is just a piece of paper. He doesn't seem capable of commitment or equal partnership. He is just leveraging your desire to get married to have you do more for him.


Yeah true. I was considering more kids to compromise because I thought he was going to compromise about marriage. As I said to someone else, I don't get why he is so loving, amazing & caring about my medical condition. But when it comes to marriage he just stops loving me. 

I think having more kids with him is not a good idea too.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Do you think he occasionally has lady friends (lovers) on the side?

Are there times when you have no idea where he _really_ is?


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

SunCMars said:


> Do you think he occasionally has lady friends (lovers) on the side?
> 
> Are there times when you have no idea where he _really_ is?



I'm not sure. The only time he is not at home is when he works.


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## SELENA700 (7 mo ago)

SELENA700 said:


> I'm not sure. The only time he is not at home is when he works.


He doesn't like going out, he prefers to stay home 90% of the time because he is not allowed to drink in public. So he comes home to drink alone.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

SELENA700 said:


> I'm not sure. The only time he is not at home is when he works.


We are a cynical bunch. 
How do you know he is at work when he says he is?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

SELENA700 said:


> Yeah true. I was considering more kids to compromise because I thought he was going to compromise about marriage. As I said to someone else, I don't get why he is so loving, amazing & caring about my medical condition. But when it comes to marriage he just stops loving me.
> 
> I think having more kids with him is not a good idea too.


It's worth something that he's at least a caring person about your medical condition. He just has a problem with commitment which is really hypocritical since he wants to keep having babies and that requires commitment and any woman would want commitment to have babies who was thinking clearly. Whether he likes it or not he is responsible for those children if you two split up. And if that happens you should insist he takes his fair share of 50% custody so that he is fully responsible for the children and the housework and the errands half the time which leaves you half the time without them to relax at work or whatever you want to do. He probably really needs a taste of what it's like to have to do all that. Honestly you may be better off just not marrying him because he is going to try to make you sign all your rights away if you do. And like I said since you share children he is already responsible for that and if he drops the ball on it in any way you can do something about that legally. 

Does he have any other women he has children with?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SELENA700 said:


> That is amazing, so happy for you and your family. Yeah I'm definitely not ready to leave yet. I'm just confused as to why shows love for me in other aspects. I have a medical condition and he is so amazing & caring towards that & so helpful. But his love suddenly stops whenever it has anything to do with marriage.


The whole "just a piece of paper" thing is a phony argument. If he really believed that he'd have no problem getting married for you because isn't it just a piece of paper? What's the big deal?

He doesn't believe it's just a piece of paper and he doesn't want to get married, at least to you. And he doesn't have the stones to be honest about it.

So stop chasing it. You are worth more then scraps.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

SELENA700 said:


> He wants me to cook & clean to his standards. For example I wasn't stacking the dishes away properly the way he wants it done. It doesn't make sense though. I do cook for him, most nights he will just order uber eats instead of eating what I've cooked. When I clean the dishes, we don't have a dishwasher. So I stack the dishes to air dry for a bit. But according to him I don't put them away quick enough.


Wow...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

And please stop letting him tell you to do more work and all that. He's not the boss of you. He's not the man you should want to marry either.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

This is what I am piecing together from what you posted. 

1) Your POS BF doesn’t think you’re marriage material. 

2) When someone comes along that is marriage worthy, he can leave you free and clear. No messy divorce to deal with. He will only have to deal with child custody/support.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

From what you have stated, up to this point, it sounds like he is bitter in life, bitter at government and its rules, and you suffer for it.

You mentioned his drinking, could he be classified as an alcoholic?
What is his daily intake, his weekly drinking amount?

Many alcoholics suffer from depression, and drink to forget.
A very bad cycle ensues.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> From what you have stated, up to this point, it sounds like he is bitter in life, bitter at government and its rules, and you suffer for it.
> 
> You mentioned his drinking, could he be classified as an alcoholic?
> What is his daily intake, his weekly drinking amount?
> ...


Funny you should say that. The one guy I knew who liked to go around huffing and blowing about how marriage was a piece of paper was a terrible alcoholic who had a huge problem with authority and ended up very unhappily working for me instead of with me like before when I inherited an office. He didn't last long.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

SELENA700 said:


> That is amazing, so happy for you and your family. Yeah I'm definitely not ready to leave yet. I'm just confused as to why shows love for me in other aspects. I have a medical condition and he is so amazing & caring towards that & so helpful. But his love suddenly stops whenever it has anything to do with marriage.


Only you will know the right time for leaving or if its the right decision for you.

I definitwly dont advice leaving when you dont have a strong family to back you up, with some money, because youre not working and to work you need support.

Just dont forget to get a lawyer if/when you leave, so you wont get duped. Here in Brazil common law have rights to the financial they build together (together, bc for him to be able to work you stayef with his kids), but zero rights to insurance and security in case of death or accidents, as its only for marriage.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

You are the one who shouldn't want to commit to him because of his attitude and always trying to find ways to make you do more work etc. But you have children together. There's no way you should marry him and agreed to a bunch of terms. I think you should be glad he doesn't want to marry you at this point. You have kids so he's always going to have to be in your life some way. You just be sure he's doing his part equally and stop worrying about trying to bend to get him to marry you. It doesn't mean anything to him that is worth it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You're kind of contradicting yourself in a number of ways. 

You initially say you love him and want to marry him.... but then you go on to describe how he is an ass and that you don't want to marry him. 

You two have two different attitudes, beliefs and values on marriage so there for you are not compatible for marriage in the first place. 

You say you don't want to marry him but yet will not leave until the kids are adults,,, so why are you staying?? So he pays the bills?? 

So where I am going with this is you are both kind of using each other for your own benefit. He wants you to cook and clean. You want him to pay your bills and support you. 

As a guy, I'm kind of seeing his point here (except for wanting more kids, that always boggles my mind but anyway.... ) 

If someone is going to live in my house while I foot the bills, then yes, I expect a certain amount of domestic chores to be done while I am out slaying dragons to pay for said house. 

If it's going to be an egalitarian relationship based on love and commitment and partnership etc with shared belief and principles of marriage, then that is different.

But you two have very different beliefs and values in how you each view marriage and family etc. 
That has created kind of a viscious cycle where he doesn't want to marry unless you check off boxes and you want him to pay the bills and feed your children until they are grown at which point you plan to leave. As a guy, I couldn't marry either under those circumstances. 

I don't know if there is a fix here since you have different views and values on what marriage is and you have already established your relationship as transactional.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> You're kind of contradicting yourself in a number of ways.
> 
> You initially say you love him and want to marry him.... but then you go on to describe how he is an ass and that you don't want to marry him.
> 
> ...


I think it's reasonable to expect a stay at home to do chores. When you start setting "standards" you're very close to setting up an emploee/employer relationship. This is terrible for a marriage.

And if she's required to clean to his standards I hope he's making money to her standards. Imagine where that one could go. My kids father was like this....used to scream at me for not cleaning to "his standards". I absolutely did clean the house...he just found reasons to ***** because he didn't like me. But you know what? If we were going to have standards he didn't make money to mine. I didn't apply such standards because it's petty and I certainly didn't marry his broke ass for money, but if we're going to start with standards.....

I think it's a mistake for one to stay at home and become dependent because this is what can happen.

I think she does love him and wants to marry him but she's telling herself she doesn't because it's clear he doesn't want to marry her. She may get to a point where she really thinks that but it's a journey she must make, and she'll either live without marriage with him or she'll find a guy who does want to marry her.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

SELENA700 said:


> He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.


 Why do you want to marry such a person?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think it's reasonable to expect a stay at home to do chores. When you start setting "standards" you're very close to setting up an emploee/employer relationship.
> 
> . My kids father was like this....used to scream at me for not cleaning to "his standards". I absolutely did clean the house...he just found reasons to *** because he didn't like me.
> 
> I think it's a mistake for one to stay at home and become dependent because this is what can happen.


I agree with the above. 

Unless both people come from the same cultural and religious backgrounds and both have the same beliefs and values and mores in regards to marriage and gender roles and both have deep respect and value and appreciation for each other,, things can easily take on a Master-Servant situation. 

And if not a Master-Servant dynamic, that at least a more transactional dynamic where each is more overtly expecting some kind of tit-for-tat.

Where these two went off the rails was right from the git-go where they had different beliefs, values and mores on marriage and family and commitment, but yet they played house and made babies anyway. 

Our grandmothers understood this and tried to warn the younger generations against it but it fell on deaf ears and now it's like people just don't get it.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

SELENA700 said:


> True. Marriage is definitely out of the question. For now I'll just focus on looking after the kids. Once they're adults, happy & healthy. Then I can focus on me, find love oneday and get married


 Why wait to find love and marriage? He may not owe you alimony, but he would owe you child support.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SELENA700 said:


> Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love. I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen. But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.
> 
> I'm just so heartbroken. Should getting married to someone you love be so unachievable & unreachable?? Should getting married for love be that hard?? Does it sound like he is just pretending that "we will get married oneday" when really it means he is just saying that knowing full well he never wants that to happen??


Good grief, why are you even with this guy he sounds awful. He will marry you if you pass his tests? If you are good enough? 
No he will never marry you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SELENA700 said:


> Thanks. I feel trapped, so hard to up and leave someone coz I didn't get my way about marriage. I believe marriage is way more than just a piece of paper. Its a celebration of your love for each other, symbol of commitment & love. But he said "We don't need labels, I don't need a piece of paper to tell me to call each other husband & wife. Why can't loving each other be enough. Back in the old day, marriage was about control. Most marriages today end in divorce & it'll just get messy & ugly"
> 
> As I said in another response. In America, married couples have lots of benefits. But in New Zealand I don't think we have the same benefits. But here if u are married or in a defacto relationship you still have split everything 50/50 regardless if u are married or not. So I'm not sure why he is too worried about the legal side.


I always think it's stupid when people say 'it's just a piece of paper'. The certificate is merely the legal proof that the marriage took place, not the marriage itself. How can they be so stupid not to understand this?
Personally I would never be with a guy who wasnt prepared to get married, and there would be no children until that had happened. Sadly you have already had 2 but please don't have anymore with him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Si


SELENA700 said:


> I dont think he realises the legal is not really different between married and unmarried couples.
> 
> He promised me we would get married but then changed the goal posts. Nah, currently I don't have a job. I've been looking after the kids, then got diagnosed with a medical condition. I have found a job I'm going to apply for. When I told him about it that's when he put an extension on getting married. He said we will wait oneday til u get a pay rise.


 Basically he controls you by using the marriage card.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SELENA700 said:


> I think for him. He is all 3 of those things, especially #1


Then why are you with him? He clearly doesn't love or respect you enough to bother making a committment to you. 
I know 2 women who ended relationships due to the guy not being prepared to get married. I admire them.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Never, ever become dependent on someone. This is what happens. Your needs do not matter because he is “in charge.” There’s no reason for him to care about you at all. You don’t need to marry him, you need to leave him. Do you want your kids to think this is how women deserve to be treated?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SELENA700 said:


> He wants me to cook & clean to his standards. For example I wasn't stacking the dishes away properly the way he wants it done. It doesn't make sense though. I do cook for him, most nights he will just order uber eats instead of eating what I've cooked. When I clean the dishes, we don't have a dishwasher. So I stack the dishes to air dry for a bit. But according to him I don't put them away quick enough.


I have no idea why you would want to be with a man who treats you like this but it's your life.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

SELENA700 said:


> I was considering more kids to compromise because I thought he was going to compromise about marriage.


You've already compromised. No more. Your children can suffer if this shack up doesn't go as well as you hope it will.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

He doesn't want to get married because he's not comfortable with commitment. But then, you have two children together. Shaking my head.

Children are a LIFETIME commitment...and happily so.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Yes, marriage is just a piece of paper. Unfortunately, simply shredding it does not dissolve the marriage.

If it were that simple, I'd have been divorced years ago.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

I forgot to add. If it's "just a piece of paper", he shouldn't object. What's the harm? 

(Just offering a thought. Don't marry him.)


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I too left my kids father when they were 5 and 2 because he was a nasty drunk. I'd been at home for 5 years and got a job.
> 
> Today they are 21 and 19 and doing well. I make 6 figures and own my own house, and I have a lovely bf.
> 
> ...


Great answer.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SELENA700 said:


> He doesn't like going out, he prefers to stay home 90% of the time because he is not allowed to drink in public. So he comes home to drink alone.


Why is he not allowed to drink in public?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TRy said:


> Why wait to find love and marriage? He may not owe you alimony, but he would owe you child support.


In NZ, she would most likely be able to be alimony (maintenance) for a period of time to help her become self-supporting.
Spousal Maintenance; How NZ Stacks Up | Haigh Lyon


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sfort said:


> He doesn't want to get married because he's not comfortable with commitment. But then, you have two children together. Shaking my head.
> 
> Children are a LIFETIME commitment...and happily so.


He does not want that commitment to her. He seems to be ok with having a commitment to his children. And he has her to do most of the work of raising them. Even if she were to leave him, he still has his children and that commitment to them. It's a win/win for him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@SELENA700 

You need to change your focus. Instead of focusing on your desire to marry him, focus on yourself and your children.

Get a job and get as much training as you can to improve your earning potential.

Build a support system of friends and family who can help you improve yourself.

Make sure you exercise daily, even if it's just a nice long walk. Take your children with you so they learn to do this too.

What does Selena need to be the best you can be? Do yourself. The funny thing is if you do this, he might actually start seeing you through a new lens and find more respect for you. But do it for yourself, not for him. 

Have you ever flown on an airplane? They tell passengers that if the plane starts to have problems to put their oxygen mask on first, before they put them on their child(ren). this is because if the parent tries to put masks on their children first, the parent will pass out for lack of oxygen and then the children are lost. Put your oxygen mask on first so you can care for your children.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Your H's shifty bull needs to stop. He doesn't believe in marriage but he wants you to jump through hoops and then he suddenly DOES believe in marriage after all as long as you meet conditions? You are so focused on marriage with this guy but ask yourself- if your child had a partner who manipulated them like your H is manipulating you, what would you advise them to do?

Something smells bad here and it isn't you. Totally understandable if you are heartbroken. He pulled the rug out from under you in increments, saying maybe then no then maybe then if you do this etc etc

This is not something anyone who claims to love somebody should do to them.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

SELENA700 said:


> Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love. I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen. But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.
> 
> I'm just so heartbroken. Should getting married to someone you love be so unachievable & unreachable?? Should getting married for love be that hard?? Does it sound like he is just pretending that "we will get married oneday" when really it means he is just saying that knowing full well he never wants that to happen??


Yes marriage is just a piece of paper. How would having that piece of paper change your life or relationship with him in any significant way?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BruceBanner said:


> Yes marriage is just a piece of paper. How would having that piece of paper change your life or relationship with him in any significant way?


It would show committment and maturity. 
Don't you know what a marriage licence is? It's the legal proof the marriage took place. It isn't and never has been more than that. It's never been the marriage itself.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> It would show committment and maturity.
> Don't you know what a marriage licence is? It's the legal proof the marriage took place. It isn't and never has been more than that. It's never been the marriage itself.


And that piece of paper comes with rights and obligations for both parties. It's not just a piece of paper. It's a legal contract that governs assets, liabilities, rights to children, inheritance, participation in a spouse's medical are, income taxes, and on and on.

It's sort of like the laws taht govern the different forms of businesses that determine how ownership, obligations, assets, etc. handled under the law.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> He does not want that commitment to her. He seems to be ok with having a commitment to his children. And he has her to do most of the work of raising them. Even if she were to leave him, he still has his children and that commitment to them. It's a win/win for him.


Yes.



SELENA700 said:


> But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.


Was his parents divorced?


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

After 4 years and 2 children he is now saying you have to meet certain criteria? This man is not interested in a commitment. Do not take it personally and do not feel that there is anything you can do to change it. My suggestion would be to leave, make no contact and tell him that if he decides he can commit to give you a call and if you are still available you guys can talk about it. Don't keep wasting your time hoping he is going to all of a sudden be in love with you and never want you to leave.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

SELENA700 said:


> Yeah he just keeps changing his mind over and over. I don't think he wants to marry me. Think he wants to keep his options open. So he can freely leave whenever to marry whoever he wants.
> 
> He tricked me, we had kids which was to lead to marriage. So I will follow through with looking after the kids, keep them safe & healthy. Once they are settled in their adult lives, if my bf is still mucking me around. I'll leave and find someone who actually will marry for love.


The shock will be on him if he does that -- He WILL NOT be able to leave freely when he wants. If he does leave, he will still have to worry about dividing your assets, child support/custody, etc. He is listed on the kids birth certs as the father, yes?
If you are considered a de facto marriage, then he ALREADY has all of the restrictions on him that marriage would have.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


SELENA700 said:



Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love.

Click to expand...

*Well, I'm just going to say it.

I would NEVER, EVER have kids with a man who doesn't think I'm good enough to marry. Yeah, I'm from a different generation but I would NEVER have kids with a man who didn't think I was good enough to marry first.

Find your self-respect! If you're not good enough to marry, then you're not good enough to clean Mr. Wonderful's house or wash his dirty clothes or cook his meals or scrub his toilets or shop for his food or raise his children or sleep in his bed every night!

*



I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen.

Click to expand...

*LOL...the only one doing any "compromising" is you - at the cost of your pride and dignity. You HONESTLY don't understand why this using, opportunistic POS won't marry you? 

*Seriously?????*

Why on earth you'd be willing to keep giving this fool everything he wants and then cry that he won't marry you makes my head explode. And why you'd give this POS MORE kids when he *clearly doesn't think you're worth the 'risk' of marrying *is truly a mystery to me.

Where is your self-respect, OP? Where is it????


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I just got a splinter in the eye from seeing the beating of that 2x4!
Dang, tell her how you really feel and stop mincing words!

OP, you probably needed to hear that. This guy isn’t marriage material. You chose your kids dad poorly.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

SELENA700 said:


> Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love. I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen. But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.
> 
> I'm just so heartbroken. Should getting married to someone you love be so unachievable & unreachable?? Should getting married for love be that hard?? Does it sound like he is just pretending that "we will get married oneday" when really it means he is just saying that knowing full well he never wants that to happen??


The housework statement is gaslighting and narcissistic. It will get worse later if married.
Get out now. You are being led on. Give Him a deadline. If he breaks it leave. A man's life is safer by not marrying. He knows divorce laws will be detrimental to him. That is the only leverage you have leaving with the kids, but
Push so far you lose a potential friend, a guy who stays, or the kids lose a participant in the kids lives at any age. I haven't seek my son for 20 years. Nor do I want to, no affinity due to time apart. You got a choice, settle or seek burning desire on both parts.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well, I'm just going to say it.
> 
> I would NEVER, EVER have kids with a man who doesn't think I'm good enough to marry. Yeah, I'm from a different generation but I would NEVER have kids with a man who didn't think I was good enough to marry first.
> 
> ...


Yeah,you should have that,but don't every Mary anybody you don't have burning desire for,
Men and women need to vet seriously


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

SELENA700 said:


> Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love. I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen. But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.
> 
> I'm just so heartbroken. Should getting married to someone you love be so unachievable & unreachable?? Should getting married for love be that hard?? Does it sound like he is just pretending that "we will get married oneday" when really it means he is just saying that knowing full well he never wants that to happen??


What was his view about marriage when you met him? Did you discuss this matter with him early on? What did he tell you?

My sincere advise to women is to NOT have children outside wedlock. This should be a consideration with the lawful husband only. This is for the best.

While children bring much joy to a parent's life, they can make it difficult for a woman to leave a noncommittal man. This dynamic might lead to resentment and will not be good for raising children.

You should not have more children with him unless he accepts your hand in marriage. Draw this line for him.

You should consider having your own income as well. I do not advise absolute dependence on the partner. Your income might open new possibilities for you.

Do your best for your children - they will cherish you.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

SELENA700 said:


> Hi everyone. I just want some advice. I'm not married. I love marriage, I wish I could get married. But that is never going to happen for me anymore. I've been with my bf for 4 years. We have 2 kids. We have talked about marriage. He says that we will get married one day. But he keeps changing the time frame, he keeps pushing the date for marriage further and further away. I'm so upset because I love him and want to marry him for love. I'm happy to compromise, he wants more kids past the age of 33. I'm happy to support him and make that happen. But in terms of marriage he says that he doesn't believe in it. He thinks marriage is just a piece of paper and that all it does it lead to divorce. He said that if he compromises on marriage, that it can only happen if I tick off all the boxes on his criteria and meet his expectations. He said we can get married when he thinks I'm consistent enough with the housework, cooking, earn enough to get a pay rise.
> 
> I'm just so heartbroken. Should getting married to someone you love be so unachievable & unreachable?? Should getting married for love be that hard?? Does it sound like he is just pretending that "we will get married oneday" when really it means he is just saying that knowing full well he never wants that to happen??


You are naming the kids after you correct. I would not let him name them or give them his last name, you are unwed so he does not get perk of having children to carry on his family name.


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