# I feel like I'm on death row



## carmaenforcer

I am a pot smoker and my Wife is completely anti, a couple of times (2 or 3) I have gotten caught by my Wife with paraphernalia, promising each time that it would not happen again.

I of coarse have just plain out lied to avoid the break up right then and there but have no intention of ever quitting.

So this morning I got caught AGAIN, didn't know I got caught till my Wife had already gone to work,but when I put the baby in the car seat and went over to give my Wife a kiss, she gave me a look, to which I asked, "What?" to which she answered "We'll talk about it later"... Anyway, when she left I went to look for my pipe which I had put in one of her jacket pockets and noticed she was wearing it.

Total pot head move, I know.

So, not being able to put the Genie back in the bottle, I just went to work and am waiting for the sentence later when we both get home.

I will come back to update how it went but am so afraid of loosing my Wife and baby. I have been racking my brain all day but have resigned myself to the worst possible outcome and have found a strange peace in the fact that there is nothing I can do to stop, what ever happens.

Wish me luck.


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## Blanca

carmaenforcer said:


> but am so afraid of loosing my Wife and baby. I have been racking my brain all day but have resigned myself to the worst possible outcome and have found a strange peace in the fact that there is nothing I can do to stop, what ever happens.


Instead of trying to control your environment all the time by lying, try just being honest. Once you allow the natural consequences to fall, what you really want in life will come to you. When you start being honest, and you start getting what you are really asking for, you'll either be happy with your life, or you'll realize you want something else. You just have to start being honest.


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## Dancing Nancie

carmaenforcer said:


> I am a pot smoker and my Wife is completely anti, a couple of times (2 or 3) I have gotten caught by my Wife with paraphernalia, promising each time that it would not happen again.
> 
> I of coarse have just plain out lied to avoid the break up right then and there but have no intention of ever quitting.
> 
> So this morning I got caught AGAIN, didn't know I got caught till my Wife had already gone to work,but when I put the baby in the car seat and went over to give my Wife a kiss, she gave me a look, to which I asked, "What?" to which she answered "We'll talk about it later"... Anyway, when she left I went to look for my pipe which I had put in one of her jacket pockets and noticed she was wearing it.
> 
> Total pot head move, I know.
> 
> So, not being able to put the Genie back in the bottle, I just went to work and am waiting for the sentence later when we both get home.
> 
> I will come back to update how it went but am so afraid of loosing my Wife and baby. I have been racking my brain all day but have resigned myself to the worst possible outcome and have found a strange peace in the fact that there is nothing I can do to stop, what ever happens.
> 
> Wish me luck.


I used to be a daily pot smoker. Sometime after my first child was born I started to slow down. I just stopped buying it at first. If was out with friends and it came around so be it. I just stopped at home.

As time went on I smoked less and less. At some point it started to react differently. I no longer like the way I feel when I do and haven't smoked in a long time. I can't say that it is something I miss or will never do again. 

I will say that it is time for you to be honest with your wife and tell her you want to stop but don't know how. Tell her that you need her help, and you are willing to do what is necessary to stop. 

You may want to seek out a friend that doesn't smoke, or see a counselor.


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## okeydokie

i quit eons ago, one day i just stopped cause your life becomes one big lie. having kids should snap you out of it, i dont know how old you are but in my humble opinion, it is an immature and selfish action. sorry to be harsh but you gotta let it go for the childs sake if nothing else.


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## MarkTwain

carmaenforcer-

That explains a lot about your personality. Pot smokers tend to go round and round in circles. I dropped the last of my pot-head friends. As someone once said, what's cute in you're 20's looks worn in your 40's


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## marina72

I have to agree with twain and okeydokie 

Why don't you just stop? Is it Really worth losing your Baby, and Wife? I have never tried pot, can't even fathom why anyone would. Having said that, it's a drug, and like any drug, it can be addictive, and those who say it isn't.... well, they can't seem to stop either, can they? Fact is, it puts you in a state of voidedness, or something like that, right? You feel gooooddddd..

Well, what happens if you are feelin good one day, drivin down the road, with your little precious life, your child , in the car with you, and you get in an accident, because all your faculties are not present? What if you get pulled over, and you're high and /or, have pot paraphanaliea or however you spell that,,, on your person, and the baby is with you? You'll go to jail, the baby will go to a social worker, till your wife can come pick him/her up.

Dude, there is Nothing good, that will come of this habit. Best stop it now.... Anyone that would choose a drug, over his wife and kid.... well, you've got a problem, and you need to seek professional help for it.

best of luck.


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## blacksage

The first thing you need to do is recognize that, that is a problem and make a plan to stop. You are going to have to earn your trust back with the wife

Side note: you put it in her jacket.:scratchhead: what a pothead! I'm teasing you but that was funny as hell.

I suggest your wife comes home to flowers or whatever she likes and you ready to make a plan to kick the habit. You should start by giving her all your pipes, papers, etc.

I'm late...so what was your sentence?


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## carmaenforcer

Ok, so from reading this post you will see that I have not nor will probably ever stop smoking pot. My mistake was not taking my love of the herb and devotion to it into consideration before deciding to stay with my Wife and having a child with her.
I am not just a pot head, I am a drug usage advocate. Meaning that I will defend to my death the fact that pot is no different than liking and choosing to drink wine or other alcoholic beverages or smoke salvia or kratom, both legal in my state by the way, so is pot for medicinal purposes. I think that people should be able to do whatever they wish as long as they are not hurting or endangering others.
Do I have a moral obligation to teach my son that drugs are bad, if I don't believe that they are? Or do I have a moral obligation to teach my son to use common sense and make up his own mind about what he want to or not put in his body or believe in.

I hate religion Christianity, the fact that people with no "Jewish" or middle eastern lineage follow a god made up by people who's history has nothing to do with theirs. 

Example: I am half Mexican and Puerto Rican, both my people (ancestors) where conquered by Catholics and forced by torture to abandon our beliefs that we held or developed over tens of thousands of years before "Jesus" even existed.

Anyway, now my Wife's family (Grandmother) is teaching my son
to say little prayers and this father, son and holy spirit thing Catholics do with their hand and I hate it.

When I told my Wife I don't want my son learning that useless Hebrew superstition that where themselves plagiarized from even more ancient Samarian and Egyption texts (the whole Jesus story existed 1300 years before Jesus, so is just a "story") and instead I wanted to explore our true spiritual and cultural roots and individual spirituality on his own at his own time, I get scoffed and almost laughed at and of coarse my wished are ignored.

Part of the heritage and spiritual background and practices of "my true people" (the native American Indians not Whites or Spaniards) my peoples way of communing with the GOD(s) involved the use of halusinogens (drugs, peyote, San Pedro or Mescaline, Salvia) most of which are illegal and though harmful by western standards but still protected and accepted for a handful of tribes.

Sorry I am rambling and can talk on this subject forever, but the point is that my pot smoking or choice to do any other substance, is my own business, within the confines of "the law" and as long as I am doing no harm to myself or others. 
I actually also have the right, to teach my son what I believe or simply offer other belief systems as viable options and just as true and important as the other doctrines, if not even more so because of his and my ancestry. 

I tried to be honest about the pot smoking and my philosophy in general just the other day but my Wife is a close minded brain washed person that is afraid to even stray from what her masters and local society say she should feel and believe.
That ended up being yet another painful waist of time and so I am forced to continue to lie and live in hiding like some of my ancestors must have had to do or die (or in my case get divorced) but you get the picture.


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## XiaSulin

Woah!!!! Well I gotta say that was a mouthful and I am sure there will be people who will disagree with you but I personally think it's noble to stand up for what you believe in. I think because you and your wife differ so much you should be looking at a divorce. You're very liberal when it comes to some things and she's very conservative and this is conflicting with your son. It will become (if it isn't already) confusing (with or without divorce) for him, and he may do what you wanted him to do in the first place, question and use common sense for himself. Or he may not.


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## preso

One partner using drugs is often a reason people divorce... more so in this age where so many jobs require drug testing. It is understandable why someone with a child would not want the partner to be on or smoking dope when there is so much to possibly lose. Your values differ and your going to have to pick one or the other ( drugs or your marriage)


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## carmaenforcer

In this country or better said, in today's society, there are many, too many in my opinion, reason why people divorce.

I have divorced once before because of issues my Wife and I had after loosing our first daughter to cancer. In retrospect I believe that we maybe would have been best served to not jump to divorce and instead seek help in dealing with our grief.

No, no offense to those whom see divorce as being like white-out for relationship problems but I think I will serve my sons best interests by staying close and protecting him from the overly conservative, religious, conformist, closed minded people or he will surly become one himself.

I believe that there are issues in life that are best served with patience and gradual manipulation rather than quitting, conforming or giving in and this is one of those cases.

Conceit to the anti-pot mentality is a victory for the other side and a retreat for me.

My Puerto Rican (Tiano Indian and African) ancestors found a way to keep their old religious beliefs and practices, in the face of torture and death for them and their families. They pretended to comply and instead worshiped their old Gods and simply gave them the names of the Catholic Oppressors religious figures. This came to be knows as Santeria, voodoo disguised as Catholicism. A lie to the poor Conquistadores and Catholic missionaries, yes. A justified survival tactic in a hostile invironment, yes. Which is right and which is wrong, depends on who you ask. 

My employer tests for drugs, fortunately for me there are ways around that, and strike one for our (pot advocates) side.

Following blindly something that you feel is not right but is popular, accepted by your society or "the law", is what lead to the Jewish Holocaust. 
I'm sure that there where people that didn't quite agree with Hitler or the fact that killing millions of innocent people might be wrong but knew that it would be stupid to endanger their lives and that of their families by standing up against what they believed to be wrong. 
Some people did, lie and break the law in Germany at the time to stand against what they felt was wrong, where they wrong to do so.

I stood my ground against close minded thinking, fought for what I think is right and risked loosing my family to divorce in the process. 
Now, like my ancestors before me, I will seemingly conceit to my oppressor, for risk of death (divorce) pretend that I am compliant and secretly preserving my beliefs and pass them down to my children.

Enough is enough with alcohol and cigarettes being accepted and pot or other natural plant extracts being illegal just because society (Here in the US at least) says it should be so.


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## XiaSulin

I think you're right on the divorce aspect if the idea is to work things out. I can't really reply on the smoking pot side because my brain is fried from todays events. I just read your last line wrong in your last post maybe, thought you were considering divorce as an option. In which case. How do you think you will work out these conflicting issues with your wife?

You think that you will just live with her and lie that you are not doing those things that she is against, and all will be well? Do you love your wife, and does she love you? Is that the only issue you guys have. If you love each other and this is just one thing in the grand scheme of things, then I can understand. I guess I have more trouble understanding if it is just a unhappy marriage and if to be happy you have to be secretive/manipulative vs. compromise.

But I guess if that's your thing. Hmm... so my main question then is, what are you asking? Or are you just making a statement? Which is cool I just don't know what I'm commenting on now >.>


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## Blonddeee

wow
I don't think you should live a lie, if you are so proud of your beliefs then you should not lie and hide them to keep your family together. Your wife deserves someone that is honest- which is very important in a marriage. Your son should learn about honesty too... among other things- he's his own person and he should be able to make his own decisions regarding drugs and religion when he is old enough to even understand them- I don't see anything wrong with him learning a prayer... 
I don't blame your wife for not wanting illeagal drugs in a house with your young son... regardless of your views... it's not the kind of enviroment for a small child to be around... it's very different then drinking wine...you don't have to buy wine from a drug dealer... geesh.


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## carmaenforcer

*XiaSulin*, sorry for the long ranting posts and thank you for your patience and in making an effort, fried brain or not, to understand.

I don't know if I have a question, just letting off steam after a hard couple of days, in which I have felt persecuted because I like to smoke a substance that it frowned upon.

I live in California and with a medical reason (which I have) it's legal by state law to posses and even grow a certain amount of pot. The legality of what I am doing is not so much the issue I think, because I asked her if she rather I drink like her family (Uncles, and Grandma) does and she said no because alcoholics are abusive. I can smoke Salvia Divinorum or Kratom, which are much scarier substances, in the affects not the dangers to health and both of which are completely legal in California and she would still have an issue with it.
No, it's just that my Wife's has preconceived ideas of what a pot smoker is, and that is a "drug user" and she stated that even if it where legal she wouldn't want to be with a pot smoker. You see, her first boy friend (guy she lost "it" to) was a pot head and a jerk as well. I think she blames the herb and not the fact that this guy was simply a jerk to begin with.

Aside from my pot smoking, which I never do in the the open, in her presence or in the house. She isn't even aware when I am high in front of her, some days when we do end up together.
A fact that I can not bring up to aid in my proving a point because then she would just get mad about that, but doesn't that prove my point about it being a non-issue...?

We have a pretty loving and happy relationship, despite her abrasive and sometimes down right abusive personality that really gets under my skin sometimes.

I asked her, if I was a good husband, good father and if I treated her well, all to which she replied yes, except for the pot smoking and lying about it.

* Blonddeee*
My son should not grow up in a house with illegal drugs, for reasons of a possible bust and subsequent issues with child services, I completely agree. I do however live in a state (CA) in which I have the right to posses up to a certain amount and I never keep anywhere near that amount at home. I'm not stupid. On that same note, I can have Salvia Divinorum (the strongest natural halusinogen discovered so far) or Kratom (a drug who's affects are like opium or heroine) both are relatively safe (health wise) and completely legal in califonia, but I don't because, that's not what I'm in to.

I do see a problem with religion or superstition being introduced at to young of an age because like me, once you learn something at this impressionable of an age, you can not unlearn it and it becomes a part of your programing. 
Now if it where a religion or spiritual belief that had something to do with my own ancestry, I might be a little more included to instill it in my child, but it's not. 

In my peoples culture, the Mexican side, there are indigenous tribes that see spiritual enlightenment via the consumption of cacti containing Mescaline (peyote) and they give it to their children as well. Is that wrong, just because an Anglo westerner or a person from another culture says it is? 

I believe that you can be a good person without the superstitions and belief in any "god".

I have an equal right to raise "my" child, how I see fit within the confines of the law where I reside and my own principles and beliefs. 

My Wife does deserves honesty and when she starts treating me like I feel I deserve to be treated, I might start to feel worse about having to lie to her. 
She, however is not perfect and is a bit of a jerk to me and does things that I can not get away with or have the right to say anything about.


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## carmaenforcer

Once again please forgive my long posts but I have so much stress and borderline anger at this situation that I am venting like a tea kettle.

I appreciate reading other peoples take on my issue though, because I am too close to it and so can not see the whole picture from all angle, making me question my concussions.

*XiaSulin *

Sorry but I forgot to answer a good question you asked,
No, I am not considering divorce. I was replying to someone that stated:


> One partner using drugs is often a reason people divorce...


You also asked; "How do you think you will work out these conflicting issues with your wife?"

To this I have no answer unfortunately, continuing to lie to her is not my first choice, just the only recourse I can think of besides conceding to defeat.

I would have liked to be honest and reach a middle ground like as long as I do not use money that is needed for something else, don't do it around the house, or within a certain time before coming home, quitting for a period of time to prove that I can (am not addicted) and that I am the same person with or without the drug, all these things I would be willing to do, but it requires her meet me halfway.

I do love my Wife and Child with all of my heart but that does not mean that I stop being human and liking certain things that have nothing to do with proper raising of a family.
I like porn too and that's not something I want my son exposed to either, so I am just careful to keep it hidden as best as I can. Same thing with fire arms and alcohol or prescription meds. Having any of these things in a house with a young child is risky and probably completely unacceptable to some yet most people do it.


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## XiaSulin

After this post I will take a Tylenol, hand the kids over to my husband, and retire to bed. I just didn't want to leave you hanging!

Sometimes I need to let off some steam too. It sounds like you and your wife love each other with just a few kinks in the relationship. I wish I knew something I could say that would help, but I am so horrible at that sorta thing!

For myself in my own life everything conflicted and contradicted itself to the point that eventually I began to find my own path and I imagine maybe in time that will happen with your son.

In my mind you sound very level headed and so I imagine you have thought out a lot of things esp. regarding your son whose important to you.

In this case I can only listen and hope that sooner or later you two get to the point of respecting each other. Have you thought of any ways to make it so you both could work towards that together?


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## XiaSulin

Ahhh! by the time I posted you responded lol, one sec.


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## XiaSulin

carmaenforcer said:


> I would have liked to be honest and reach a middle ground like as long as I do not use money that is needed for something else, don't do it around the house, or within a certain time before coming home, quitting for a period of time to prove that I can (am not addicted) and that I am the same person with or without the drug, all these things I would be willing to do, but it requires her meet me halfway.


Hmmm, I'm using the yolks in my brain to think . She is not willing to compromise whatsoever? But you two definitely love each other, and it's just this one thing. You don't think it would destroy your marriage? How long have you two been together/having this disagreement? I am just trying to think, because you're right it can't work if she won't come halfway with you and at the same time, what happens if it doesn't work?


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## Sandy55

Well, no matter how or why you are *justifying* your ADDICTION (oppressed soul and ALL that rot, ), it is just plain as rain to SEE _you want your pot over your son and wife_.

Simple. 

So go commune and toke with _your_ Gods on the outskirts of the abusive close minded society. 

Some people in the 60s thought LSD should also be legal....

ANYBODY who decides to CHOOSE their drug of choice, be it alcohol, cigarettes, pot, or meth over their CHILD is *addicted*. You need to accept responsibility for your addiction and stop rationalizing your position.


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## carmaenforcer

*XiaSulin* Thank you for taking the time and interest in my problem to reply, even though you are suffering.

I will be leaving to go home in a few minute as well so if you finally took you tylonols and passed out I will look forward to continuing this tomorrow.

I do think that this can destroy my marriage and I need only comply with my Wife and societies wishes and there will be no problem. My thinking is, if it's this "one thing" that can break up an otherwise good relationship, then maybe it wasn't as good as I thought, right.

*Sandy55*
I agree that any addiction be it alcohol, porn or food is bad and should be addressed without making excuses. 
I had an alcoholism problem for a few months after my first divorce and when I caught myself on my hands and knees looking for a bottle of alcohol my Mom kept under the kitchen table for special occasions, I was disgusted with myself and just stopped drinking for years. I also smoked cigarettes, crack, crank and LSD when I was younger and quit all of them cold turkey. I know how to quit and know when I have a problem, this is a question of individual rights to put into your body whatever you darn well please as long as it's affecting no one else. Someone just having an issue with what you do is not a good enough reason to quit, since it's none of their business.

I would agree with those people in the 60's that not just LSD but all drugs be legal for "adults" of a certain age as long as they keep it to them selves. As I stated there is a drug called Salvia that makes LSD look like a nicotine high and it's still legal in all but 8 US states. it however has not been proven dangerous or damaging to a persons health and so people are trying to find reasons to outlaw it too simply because some kid somewhere, probably with parents that where completely anti-drugs, committed suicide after trying it. 
People, how many people commit suicide after coming home from Iraq (USA TODAY reports: In the past seven months, at least 11 soldiers and three Marines have committed suicide in Iraq) yet War and the military service is not illegal.

Stop blaming drugs for peoples wanting an escape, humans have saute mind altering substances since the dawn of man, some claim have found a renewed spirituality and appreciation of life after using some of the most powerful hallucinogen drugs out there.

DMT for instance it a chemical produced naturally in the human brain every night when you reach REM sleep, it is a class 1 drug along side LSD, Heroine, opium, ect. yet we all produce it in our pineal gland and it helps our brain let go of stresses you accumulate during the day. It also appears, is produced naturally in common grass and other plants.

If I drank a beer once every couple of days, would you call me an alcoholic? No, people just think that they can judge and criticize anyone that is doing something that is frowned upon by society, but a little wine with dinner or a cigarette every now and then is ok.

I can quit whenever I wish for as long as I wish and I would prove it if I felt it would win me some respect or credit with my wife or other uptight conservative people, but it would not so I see no reason to do so.


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## preso

Even if your pot is for medicinal use, you should not be smoking it anywhere near kids. period.


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## Sandy55

..."as long as it's affecting no one else".

Well, uh, isn't it *AFFECTING* your wife and child, your* LIFE*?

You are *choosing *a drug over your family.

I don't give a rip about the history of it....but your KID is going to know the history of his father: gave up family for a doobie.


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## Blonddeee

Ok... we get it... you are pro choice on what drugs you can take... 
Did your wife find your pipe and blow up? Or are you just trying to tell us your views on pot and such?


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## Sandy55

"People, how many people commit suicide after coming home from Iraq (USA TODAY reports: In the past seven months, at least 11 soldiers and three Marines have committed suicide in Iraq) yet War and the military service is not illegal."

It isn't the WAR and military service that CAUSES the suicides. The attempt to correlate the two and compare it to drug use is for naught.

What _causes_ suicide is an _internal feeling_ that one has no more choices or solutions to their issues, the person has LOST personal coping skills or never had them to begin with.


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## XiaSulin

carmaenforcer said:


> I do think that this can destroy my marriage and I need only comply with my Wife and societies wishes and there will be no problem. My thinking is, if it's this "one thing" that can break up an otherwise good relationship, then maybe it wasn't as good as I thought, right.


I can get what Sandy is saying. For me(in this situation) I am not viewing pot as a drug I'm viewing it as a belief because that is how you are treating it. And it is a hardcore belief in many growing societies (lol growing). Sry, it's really early in the morning. And that you would sacrifice your wife and family for these beliefs, and at the same time. I understand that you as a human have the right to believe what you want, and don't want to have to suppress your beliefs for other people.

The thing is you don't want to lose your wife and family either, and because you want both you are resorting to lying and manipulation. You're saying it's just this one 'little' big thing in your entire relationship. And that both you and your wife have a side that neither of you like. Except that in the grand scheme of things all is good. (sorry if that sounds chopped up just woke) I'm just trying to sort it out in my brain.

My honest opinion is, that I don't think that you can have both. And I know you don't want to conform to society and you want to rebel in some way, but I just don't think you can have both. I don't think you would be losing your son though. I just don't think you can have wife, son, family + pot. Because you will get caught. How many times has she caught you before? In time she will catch you again and sooner or later 'she' will have had enough even if it's just the one thing.

Which is why I don't have any advice because you can't have marriage without compromise, and when what you want conflicts so heavily with what your wife wants, and what each of you value it just becomes this lifelong battle and I don't know!



> Stop blaming drugs for peoples wanting an escape, humans have saute mind altering substances since the dawn of man, some claim have found a renewed spirituality and appreciation of life after using some of the most powerful hallucinogen drugs out there.


People use drugs for different reasons. I personally include alcohol and anything else that has the ability to alter the mind or health (including prescription) as a drug. I think(this is an opinion) more people use it as an escape than they do for spiritual enlightenment, but I am aware that there are people who use it as a way to just chill, spiritual, or whatever, but I am not sure if that was just more in the 60's. Because since I moved away I don't hear much about drugs. 

I 'think' this because of the people in my life who have used drugs. I 'think' this because there are so many times when I wanted something to disappear in but was too afraid. I 'think' this because life is so much painful for a lot of other people that maybe they want drugs to escape.

I don't know where to put weed on that spectrum. My father smoked it and because of that I am so thrown off by the idea of me smoking it. Despite this I really try and be open minded about something that is so commonly used and in some countries pretty much legalized.

My opinion on why I don't smoke doesn't really affect my answers to you personally. Guess I view many things on a case by case basis. 



preso said:


> Even if your pot is for medicinal use, you should not be smoking it anywhere near kids. period.


Right. If you want to smoke it I think you should always be private about it, it is not something I feel is an appropriate environment for kids to grow up in. I grew up in a household where it was pretty much accepted and yet I still have painful memories of walking into smoke filled rooms and more I won't get into. Me and my husband have grown up in similar environments involving weed, and both of us (I have no idea what his reasons are. I never thought to ask) are thrown off by Marijuana in our personal household. But that is something we talked about before we even got married.

If he wanted to smoke weed, and felt it was his right. I wouldn't divorce him, however we would have to establish some rules. And one of the important rules would be not in front of the children, they could formulate their own opinions and ideas based on their own research but not in front of the kids.

I guess it helps that me and him have always been on the same page and generally work to stay on the same page or a similar one.


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## XiaSulin

Sandy55 said:


> "People, how many people commit suicide after coming home from Iraq (USA TODAY reports: In the past seven months, at least 11 soldiers and three Marines have committed suicide in Iraq) yet War and the military service is not illegal."
> 
> It isn't the WAR and military service that CAUSES the suicides. The attempt to correlate the two and compare it to drug use is for naught.
> 
> What _causes_ suicide is an _internal feeling_ that one has no more choices or solutions to their issues, the person has LOST personal coping skills or never had them to begin with.


Yes&No. On the one hand yes it is internal feelings (and sometimes it is internal feelings alone). On the other hand for a good chunk of cases, external factors affect those internal feelings. External things happen which trigger internal feelings. In this case War is an External factor which triggers an Internal feeling. 

There is a high rate of Veterans suffering PTSD(Post traumatic stress disorder), many people suffering from PTSD--who end up committing suicide die because of a combination of other factors. So on it's own probably not, but we have to take into account many other factors.

For some reason it seems like a good chunk of war veterans have a combination of these factors because many of them do kill themselves. I think this is because (I think) about 90% of people who commit suicide have a psychiatric illness, and there are a lot of veterans suffering from psychiatric illnesses caused/aggravated by the external events.

Drugs/Alcohol then seem to go hand in hand with anyone trying to escape. And running from your problems never help, so then it just adds to the risk of suicide and depression.

This is because it is not natural for human beings to kill despite what others say. You have to dehumanize the human first and that is what boot camp is about, it was a deliberate attempt by the government to raise the kill count. This was learned in my psychology course, if needed I will quote more exactly from the book.

For anyone who has ever seen death or murder it is traumatic. To pull the trigger for many people is and would be a traumatic experience one that you would have to live with over and over again. To see death around you, to see your friends die around you.

Yes War is part of the problem. But I don't know much about how it correlates with weed, I do know how it correlates with alcohol (but I'm outdated lol). I imagine people who want to escape from their traumas would most likely resort to a drug of some sort, which then as I said for already depressed people raises the suicide rate.

So...it's numerous factors and combinations, and I think support and how much you have plays a role in that but unsure.


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## Sandy55

"This is because it is not natural for human beings to kill despite what others say. You have to dehumanize the human first and that is what boot camp is about,"

TOTALLY DISAGREE! 

Humans will KILL _whenever they are threatened_ with deadly harm, IF they have the MEANS to do so! It is ABSOLUTELY NORMAL.

Example: I was attacked once. I never KNEW I'd react the way I did! I went on the defensive and then the offensive immediately afterward. 

When we are threatened basic instincts kick in.

The military is not about dehumanizing...it is about bringing you down to basics THEN building you up to defend and defeat a perceived ENEMY. And usually in war, the ENEMY is going to get you if you don't get them first!


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## XiaSulin

Sandy55 said:


> "This is because it is not natural for human beings to kill despite what others say. You have to dehumanize the human first and that is what boot camp is about,"
> 
> TOTALLY DISAGREE!
> 
> Humans will KILL _whenever they are threatened_ with deadly harm, IF they have the MEANS to do so! It is ABSOLUTELY NORMAL.
> 
> Example: I was attacked once. I never KNEW I'd react the way I did! I went on the defensive and then the offensive immediately afterward.
> 
> When we are threatened basic instincts kick in.
> 
> The military is not about dehumanizing...it is about bringing you down to basics THEN building you up to defend and defeat a perceived ENEMY. And usually in war, the ENEMY is going to get you if you don't get them first!


That is the military perspective of it as well. So your view on it isn't as far off (and it's OK) I just see it a lot differently. 

The full article was in my psychology book, but you can read it online if you're interested in knowing part of the reason that I think what I think, it was written by Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman he came up with the term killogy, and specialized in the study of the human psychology of killing. As his title shows he came from a military background. If you're interested on his biography this is him: Lt. Colonel Dave Grossman » Biography

This is the article or part of it that I was referring to:

Teaching Our Kids To Kill: Killing Unnaturally - by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
Teaching Our Kids To Kill: The Methods in this Madness: Brutalization - Dave Grossman, Author


I used to think it was natural to kill also. I have studied why people hurt other people, acts of violence for a very long time (for about 5ish years now). I took a psychology course in hopes of understanding more recently and have gotten to a point of growing indifference and numbness towards humanity. I was and still am very depressed at the state of humanity and what it is, and that it doesn't have to be this way but I have to accept that it is this way. 

What you described was the Fight/Flight/or Freeze response otherwise known as the sympathetic reaction. I can explain more about what that is if you were interested. Maybe you already know all about it (I just love talking about it).

The thing that people do in battle is look for others to kill, but you have to be trained to kill other people on both sides fighting. And in order to do that there are certain things that have to happen which would take me even more pages to explain. There are certain reasons to 'why' we do this but that would take just as long to explain.

I guess that's just where I stand, and I understand that others have very different opinions on it so I won't delve too much more into that.


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## carmaenforcer

*Blonddeee*


> Did your wife find your pipe and blow up?


No, my Wife didn't actually find anything this time, she asked me
if I was still smoking pot because she thought she had caught the smell of it or of the pipe in a cupboard.

I had attempted to be honest with her about a week prior to this, we were talking about how much I hate lying in general, and I saw it as a good opportunity to "fess up" so I straight up told her that the only thing I do lie to her about and wish i didn't have to, is my pot smoking. 
To which she replied "I knew it!" but without anger almost like with a jovial tone of relief.
I was so happy because I thought that I had finally gotten that off my back, the lie, and that she was ok with not the fact that I was smoking or lying, but that I came clean, was obviously attempting to be honest and was obviously not doing it in front of her or the baby.
So on the day when she asked me if I was smoking and got mad about it, we had just left her Mom & Grandma's house where her Grandma had pissed her off by picking on me and me defending myself with jokes and verbal jabs back at her mean ass, when going in a cupboard for something she thought she smelled pot and so she asked me if I was doing it in the house, to which I answered not in the house but I am still smoking.

We have actually have been doing really well for some time, just coming off of a long overdue family vacation in which we spent a whole week together with the baby and I couldn't feel more closer to her.
So, I was a little surprised at her getting so mad, since I had made that attempt to tell her the truth, a week prior, but maybe I wasn't as clear and forthcoming as I thought I was.

Oh and not to blame something other than my act of doing something that my Wife disapproves of and I am lying about, but she was also PSMing, and during this period she gets very irrational and down right mean with me and the baby.

Anyway, we are fine now. Yesterday she was acting a little more normal and loving towards me, the same the day before that but mixed with some underlined anger. 
She's calming down I guess, but she's never been one to apologize. She tried to play footsy with me while I was laying in the living room watching cartoons with my son, but I didn't follow through or reciprocate. 
I see the look of love in her eyes when she notices and I guess appreciates what a good father and husband I truly am. Yesterday she kind of confirmed my interpretation of her looks and body language with the attempted foot touching and overall back to normal demeanor but I could only feel disgust at her treating me like a "useless" criminal easily dismissed and discarded one day and like I actually deserve to be treated and looked at the next.

*preso*


> Even if your pot is for medicinal use, you should not be smoking it anywhere near kids. period.


No worries there, I never keep this or any other drugs legal or otherwise in reach of my child, he is a baby still and so we have the house pretty much baby proofed.
I had before in that cupboard that my Wife thinks she still smells something there and I did put it in one of her jackets in the house once but got caught like right away and so chalked it up to stupidity and now keep it in my car or in the patio, where the baby never is. Technically, not in the house at all.

*XiaSulin*
I would like to thank you for your intelligent and compassionate responses, 
*For me(in this situation) I am not viewing pot as a drug I'm viewing it as a belief because that is how you are treating it.*
that is exactly the way I view "pot", as a cause, a strong belief in it's wrongful criminalization and demonizing of those that partake in it.

I don't think that I can't have both, a family and pot, that is true in the old way of thinking society, where REEFER is evil
but it doesn't have to be that way.
How many commercials do you see warning kids about alcohol and how many kids die in alcohol related incidents. 
Alcohol was once illegal too and now is not and I believe that if alcohol can be decriminalized despite all the damage that it does to all aspects of peoples own lives and that of innocent people killed by drunk drivers every year, then why not pot that has a less ominous history. 
In fact we are close to decriminalization in California and I have plans of making a business around the industry, something people could already do in Spain and the then pot will be a benefit to my family, of those I employ and the entire state and all the programs that will benefit from the high tax imposed.
My Wife likes money sometime I think more than she loves me, so I'm sure when it's completely legal and it (pot) is the reason for our improved financial situation, her tone will change.
After all, money problems is the number one reason for divorces, not pot.

*Sandy55*


> ..."as long as it's affecting no one else".
> 
> Well, uh, isn't it AFFECTING your wife and child, your LIFE?
> 
> You are choosing a drug over your family.
> 
> I don't give a rip about the history of it....but your KID is going to know the history of his father: gave up family for a doobie.


My Wife is the one willing to throw our family away over pot, I am not going anywhere nor am I choosing one over the other.
I am choosing both as long as pot doesn't put my family in any danger or the habit (addiction, whatever) doesn't take from my family in time, attention or money.
I do agree with you on one point, I also do not "give a rip" about someone else's history when pertaining to my culture that I wish my children to know about and possibly follow himself. 
If it was my peoples custom to take a spirit quest that involved the ingestion of a hallucinogenic compound and I was living in a country in which I and my family could practice our non-wester, non-jewish, non-christian based religious practices, I would. 
Remember that this type of practice is taking place within the continental United States on Indian Reservations, with the ok from the Federal Government and with complete autonomy and beyond reproach from closed minded people that can't see anything but what they think is right, having rights.

My son will grow up knowing his heritage and birth rights as a Native American and all that this encompasses. He will know that his father is a loving, good man that stands up for what he believes in and maybe someday he will live in a country and society that is truly free of prejudices and not have to deal with this issue himself.


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## XiaSulin

*Sandy55*: I'm sorry I just couldn't rest with myself if I didn't give you the whole story (if you don't know it already). There is out of all the animals one species other than humans that will kill it's own kind just for the hell of it. I think it's important because I formulated my opinions even with the knowledge that another animal similar but not like us does the same things in the name of territory. It is the Chimpanzee. I remember a long time ago watching a documentary of what they were doing and despairing because it's a territorial thing. I can compare what humans do to so many other animals (which is funny because we spend so much time trying to separate ourselves from them). Chimpanzee's as most people know are our closest relatives. 

My conclusion from that was I don't think that humans kill 'naturally' in the sense of I believe we have a gene in our body that makes us prone to it, like TB or Mycoplasmosis, in some cases Asthma and Cancer, HIV, etc. There is a gene that is just there and then BAM once it's triggered, once something aggravates it then it happens, and that there are methods to pull that gene out (which our reaction is Natural so in a way you are right, it just depends on which angle you're looking at). So in the case of war I believe there are so many factors to why we can kill and do what we can and that's where killogy steps in for me. In all honesty the conclusion I have on it is just a belief, everything most of any of us know has been proven wrong by someone.



I'm sorry *Carmaen *I just wanted to add that bit because I thought I mentioned it but didn't, and felt so bad and had to get that in.

Carmaen I really don't know what to say anymore and I feel horrible, I have just run out of words. You're going to do what you feel is best, and I'm interested to know if it plays out the way you were hoping or not. I just really hope that you and your wife someday get to a point where you can both respect each other enough.


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## Sandy55

So your wife is the one drawing the line on the pot, so SHE is the one making the choice?

Oh, boy, is _that_ twisted.


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## carmaenforcer

*Sandy55*

Yeah, I would agree that my reasoning can be seen/appear as a "twisting" of the facts to benefit my objective or ultimate "personal" agenda and that's more than likely because that's exactly what it is. 
Like a lawyer defending his case (whatever) right or wrong in the initial overall consensus/opinion of the jurors, it's my job to make a good argument, display only the "fact(s)" that best support that argument. It is after all the other persons (with an opposing view) job to worry about the facts that would help support their opinion.

My reasoning may be flawed, but then again it depends on what perspective you have in the matter.

*XiaSulin*


> I really don't know what to say anymore and I feel horrible, I have just run out of words. You're going to do what you feel is best, and I'm interested to know if it plays out the way you were hoping or not. I just really hope that you and your wife someday get to a point where you can both respect each other enough.


I do apologize for any frustration that my situation and my attitude or unconventional handling of the situation might cause the forum brothers and sisters that are nice enough to take the time to even read my irritating ramblings.

I do however appreciate all opinions even though it might seem like I pay no heed, I am reading/listening and do take everything into consideration.

Yeah, I am head strong (stubborn) person when I think I am in the right and unfortunately sometimes what I think is right is not usually the popular definition of "right" at the time. 
I am however a logical individual and will eventually concede to what is best overall. I just don't go down without a good fight most of the time. 

I too hope to reach a conclusion to this debate that is comfortable and acceptable to both sides. I will keep this forums members updated on progress either way.

Thank you again for chiming in with your well thought out and intelligent input, it's helpful and easier to see someones side, when they actually take the time to think of all angles/views and not just toss out their baseless "opinion".


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