# HORNY as hell - wife with no solution - issues



## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Today I was really upset. Coming into the holidays I feel a bit BLUE.
MY wife asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I just did not even 
know how to respond.

For months and the last year its been really rough for me and my wife
She seems to have a low energy issue and perhaps hormonal imbalance. In
a way I feel as if I have lost part of my wife that I really miss.

She seems kind of snappy.. Very blunt at times and she seems to always 
have judgements about me and what I SHOULD do.. What upsets me the most 
is that I don’t treat her that way…

Tonight she snapped at me as we have a business and said what are you 
going to do about something. I gave her an answer before however it seemed
like a set up question as she proceeded to tell me at 11 pm that I wait 
until the last minute to discuss things.

We have lost all boundaries. I know owning a business is coming with lots 
of responsibility and now it seems to be more of a priority than our 
relationship. Before we started the company I made a request that we 
make us a priority so the business doesn’t swallow us and our relationship 
up.

We have had sex one time in about 5 months. Every time I bring something 
up to her to communicate and solve these issues - she SNAPS at me and gets
very reactive and says maybe we should take a break from each other. We just 
started a business and now your complaining we don’t have sex. It seems like
sex is an issue for you .. as she says this …I feel like what the hell can I 
do when when I request to come up with a solution together she seems to RUN 
or jump ship from the solution 

One of the things she points a finger at me is that I am 3 different personalities
and that I am different in bed, then when I watch tv and when we are at work.
I stated that when she and I are in bed its the only time we can relax together
without distractions like TV, work or her computer

I know owning a business comes with responsibility however I want a personal life.

When she asked me what I wanted - I feel deflated. Most of all for Christmas
I want her and me to reconnect and get back our passion and love making and 
sexual togetherness. I want to feel wanted very much from her vs being a nuisance
because I bring up a conversation about this and her just taking all I say or 
want as a complaint . She seems to be very touchy like an open nerve….

Lately she seems to get sucked into negative things in life while I am trying 
to work on the productive things

We have date nights every saturday - we go to movie or dinner or just hang out 
at a restaurant then we come home and go to sleep after the babysitter leaves.

However with my long work week, working out at the gym and working from 7 am
to 10-11 am at night I just am not a happy camper especially on monday when 
I am back to work after I had an unfulfilled expectation to spend time with 
my wife with doesn’t happen.

In a way I feel as if I am being punished or just plain bored at her just wanting 
to work and sleep.

I work out and try and focus on productive things however I find myself saying 
I want SEX, I really need to fix the SEX thing ASAP, Because I MISS IT , its fun
its healthy and I want a connection with her and feel like its a great recharge 
for me…

I just don’t know what to FXXKN do anymore:

I tried to just be positive and not react to her issues and tiredness however 
I almost feeling like everything annoys her and seems like pressure even when 
there is no pressure at all…

I feel lately like going to the gym and leaving early to get to work because i 
would rather give her space. I feel like I have spoiled her and because I am 
around all the time at home and our business who else to disrespect but me …
I am in the line of fire …

Every morning I cook my daughter breakfast and usually my own as she gets her 
ready for school and every night I put my daughter to sleep. I do enjoy that 
but part of me also feels like - wow I do all the right things as a husband 
and father however does it really get me what I want or fulfill my needs …

Why do i feel like I Do so much , yet get **** on with complaints and judgements?

What do I do - should i not be around as much ?
I have tried taking daughter and giving my wife hours to herself 
and yet that seems ok.. but I don’t know …

Now as my wife sleeps. I sit here thinking to myself what do I do - I am 
working out more, in great shape, bring in great money …

I have suggested my wife see someone because on a dozen occasions she said
she was tired and that she doesn’t know what is going on with her.. She felt 
like her libido is gone and she has ow energy - yet when I ask her to go or 
get her a number of a doctor - she says I ask her to go to the doctor every day…
she says I am pressuring her and she needs space…and she will figure it out on
her own.

Perhaps she is off balance and depressed but every suggestion or communication 
I attempt goes nowhere. Now instead of her listening to what I am saying 
she loses all reason and creates drama or extreme reactions … Then i shut down
and know that I can’t even deal with it.

I love her a lot of I would not be as concerned and YES part of me wants my 
lover and wife back… She can’t be completely stupid that I have sex once 
every 4 months with her. it used to be one time every week or two however 
lately its seems to have disappeared …

What really sucks is she seems to expect so much more from me and she is 
more judgmental and complains more …I am stressed out about her not even 
caring about what I may need …

She seems like she needs help with this emotional imbalance and how she 
is feeling yet she won’t get help - she says to leave her alone…

What the dell do i do , is there anyway besides creating more drama
with her that I can do something to raise the attraction or perhaps 
I need to not be around so much - work in a different room and find 
more hobbies.

I am quite horny too, can’t even get a blow job or anything from her
unless all of the stars line up… Last time we had sex she said she 
just wanted to give me a massage because she was getting her period 
the next day ..ended up leading to great sex… she seems to just avoid
wanting to have sex.. have the time she says she feels low energy and 
the other half of the time its me that is acting like dr jeykl and 
mr hyde with 3 personalities and that is why she doesn’t 

What can i do ?
I am so aggravated…
Holidays are coming and I planned a trip…
now I seem to want to have a few beers a week because I just 
want to take the edge off in addition to working out hard with my trainer.

She works out 3 times per week with a trainer. she has energy to go the 
GYM yet not for us .. this is what puzzles me … I feel kind of down 
what do i do .. what do i do ???

Searching for something new to try - appreciate any suggestions


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She asked what you wanted for Christmas? A great response would have been. "Same thing I want every day. A wife."


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

How freaking insane is that? Deprive a guy for 5 months and then ask what trinket he wants for Christmas. That's like Hitler coming around to concentration camps, passing out candy to the slaves he intends to gas.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

What would be a good response. Honestly I dont want anything material - just her love and connection , that may sound hokey , perhaps I want SEX for Christmas 2 times in the day for once in all time ... we have never had sex more than once in a day 

I actually want to create some romantic memories with my wife
so I dont think about other girls in the past that had more fun with me ...LOL

HAHAH


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Well, what kind of business you started? I mean was it her idea which you implemented together? If so, I remember when I did same a few years ago (not with the husband, just with a bf) - it did bring us to the harsh edge already on the planning stage.

Also, have a good read of *Anon1111* thread - especially from this bit http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...old-me-while-i-read-book-12.html#post11250410


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Forgive me for saying this but you suffer in great part because you refuse to accept the fact that your wife does not have any sexual desire for you. To her you are a nothing more than room mate and a business partner.

If you want to stay married, so be it. But don't delude yourself into thinking that there is a magical wand that will make your wife desire you sexually. Accept and embrace your celibacy.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

She has plenty of energy to go see trainer 3x week. But is tired and bixchy and critical of you and does not have sex with you. Is this 3x week trainer male?
_Posted via Mobile Device_

You remind me of me....I held it till I snapped and dumped 15 yrs of resentment in my wife's lap. One evening she was stressed and *****ing and said what do y'all want from me!? "Not a Fuxxing Thing!" And walked out. She came to living room and said "I work, take care of my kids and am trying to get closer to God...I'm doing all I can do!" I said you forgot one thing. "What!" What about your husband?

The next morning she came to me and said she was sorry, she prayed and God showed her her priorities were all screwed up. Its supposed to be Christ, spouse, children, then work.

You have to communicate. I held it in for years as I did not want to hurt her...but the anger and resentment grows like a cancer inside of you....you got to get it out! I also lost 65 lbs in 3 months and was more emotionally distant(lost oneitus) and packed on a lot of muscle...scared the crap out of her.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

First of all, if you haven't talked very directly about this with your wife, do so. Do not let her avoid the conversation, and if she does or does not make positive changes, do the following.

Stop having date nights, stop doing extra or nice things for her completely, and keep all your interactions distant and cool. Work on yourself and do things you like. Instead of date night, go out by yourself or with male friends. Show her you can be happy without her and don't need her, and perhaps she'll realize what she may be about to lose, and instead want you. If not, you are still preparing yourself for a good life without her. 

Now go, grasshopper, and BE your user name.


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## luvnyr99 (Dec 19, 2014)

mmmm. Well you sound like ur balancing quite a bit. Don't give up, i would suggest from women's point of view. It sounds more like bitterness, jealously,or some kind of hurt she's dealing with, relationships are hard as we all know it. I'm 28 been with husband 14 years married 10 and have 4 beautiful kids. yeah started young but we all learn,and go through hard times. Take a moment and think if theres been something that you guys have fought about that maybe, truthfully wasn't dealt with could have been months ago, us women like to play things off when we are still bothered by something that maybe wasn't dealt with and man can we hold on to it for awhile. We need to really share how we were hurt and need to talk about it,and you need to listen to her.With some lingering hurt on the inside can really cause bitterness, lack of sex,being negative etc the list can run. Try thinking hard and find what could be hurting her on the inside.Just have understanding , and don't get offensive easy if possible, I know how it can be hard not having her support,love ,affirmation towards you,I've done it to my husband to, its everyday to make sure we are not leaving one lonely in there needs,all needs not just sex. Not to be blunt..But if you figure what might be the problem,try releasing ur self before conversation (materbateing) might be ur friend until you can be patient and figure out whats going on. I guarantee something is bothering her. I grew bitter and negative towards my husband for not taking time for me to really tune in to me and what i was going through ,That led to addiction on my part 2 yrs i lived a different life, and 2 yrs not know something was going, shows my husband wasn't tending to me or communication wasn't being expressed i held a lot in and covered my pain with drugs. Relationships I believe always need work,always. So before you end up bitter and pull ur self away from her more. If you love her be patient and figure out the problem.We all have problems, she's hurting from something,now your hurting from not being connected and not just from sex, I know sex brings out a lot more connection from you men to us women,thats the way we were created,hopefully she will figure that out to. When you figure it out and deal with it , i bet your wife will be back.. Don't let her keep lingering in this state she's in, find the root to water it, or pluck away the weeds that has suffocated her in to this state.She wants you more then you know, even though her actions aren't showing it right now. Ive been there , like i said this is from women's view and experience, something that should be helpful i hope. Don't give up on her , you would experience this with any other women. its not greener on the other side,its green where we water it. I believe from what I've read you are doing a lot , i want to encourage you keep up the good work,continue being a good worker and daddy,and husband your work in all three will payoff it can be always hard i know it can feel overwhelming at times and u feel ur doing everything in ur power, but sometimes we have to work harder at relationships and sometimes its a breeze, but harder times will always come back, so don't give up,that daughter needs a dad and we need more marriages to last. Be strong,make good choices,one thing thats hard is being considerate to ur wife feelings,we don't think like men we go way deeper with things,ha ha,but we are worth it. Hang in there. i have to add a few things others might negatively suggest is problem, things you can look into but don't let paranoid thinking break you. Cheating--Drugs-- But it sounds to me a deep hurting issue. From experience..Shes is longing for you ...Just find ur tool bag grab ur flash light and start looking for that problem, and fix it. Hope all goes well, it won't happen over night what ever seems to be issue,just have patience,love,hope. it might be hard but Stay Strong..bless you and your wife. Both of you are deserving..


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

How old is your wife? 
IMO you dont have a sex problem, you have a relationship problem. I know its hard, but de-emphasize the sex and work on the relationship. Hopefully the sex will follow
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

Male trainer?????
Time to start snooping at her electronics.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Put yourself outside of your marriage for a minute and just think of your wife as a co-worker. Would you let a co-worker talk to you the way she does? Would you hang out socially with this co-worker after how she behaves, or would you look at any such requests like they were ridiculous?

That is your first step- take your wife off the pedestal you've put her on and demand (without begging, pleading, etc) that she treat you with respect. 

She's not used to that and will hate it initially, so you have to be prepared for that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

With much respect to Luvny, if you're being pushed away for five months at a whack, you don't have a wife. You may have a roommate, your probably have a dependent, but you don't have a wife. This is beyond being a little miffed or even being angry or a little preoccupied or fatigued. What would have to be in your own heart before you could passsively watch her twist and squirm for 5 months because her normal human basic needs that only you could meet weren't even being addressed at all? I couldn't stand to know my wife was cold or hungry or frightened for 5 minutes if it were in my power to fix the problem. She's content to watch you dangle on a cross of celibacy for 5 months? Probably wishes she could make it 50 months?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

kennethk said:


> Male trainer?????
> Time to start snooping at her electronics.


If you vo that route be very carefull. Believe me I know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## luvnyr99 (Dec 19, 2014)

i agree she's being wrong by treating him the way she has. Don't get me wrong i see the degree of frustration with her he may have ,does he want to stay married.Im pretty sure he does,and its a deeper issue then not getting sex,we all feel and become certain ways for a reason. And yeah when ur not connected to another ,yeah it can feel like being strangers. reply for Unbeleiveable


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Thound said:


> If you vo that route be very carefull. Believe me I know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


why is that?:scratchhead:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Step one is to stop rewarding her behavior.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> T
> *She works out 3 times per week with a trainer. she has energy to go the
> GYM yet not for us .. this is what puzzles me … I feel kind of down *
> what do i do .. what do i do ???





Divinely Favored said:


> *She has plenty of energy to go see trainer 3x week. *But is tired and bixchy and critical of you and does not have sex with you.



This jumped out at me happybuddha. You can _probably_ rule out medical issues as the problems, if your wife consistently works out 3X a week.

Just to be sure, she should get a physical, including a pelvic exam - to make sure she is okay.

She doesn't like you bringing up going to the doctor. I wonder why? Is she scared there is something really wrong with her? Or, is it that if she gets a clean bill of health, *she won't be able to keep telling you that she's so tired and exhausted* etc. etc. 

Does she have a male trainer? A couple of other posters have asked this. Sorry to bring this up, but you might want to make sure.


Tell her that what you want for Christmas is for her to get a physical check-up; and to have sex with you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Don't tell her you want sex for Christmas. Honestly it sounds pathetic and will undermine your future prospects with her. Tell her there's nothing she has that you want or need.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> why is that?:scratchhead:


I dont want to discuss it in a public forum right now, but lets say my latwst attempt blew up in my face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> why is that?:scratchhead:


I PMed you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

luvnyr99 I tried everything you wrote on your first post and you know what? It didn't work. After 5 years of celibacy, I had to accept the truth that *my wife didn't love me*. It was hard to accept the truth but it was undeniable as the midday sun. I finally divorced her and have not regretted my decision.

You see, what you see as simply a lack of sex, I see it as one of the deepest types of rejection and betrayal that a human being can experience. You either chose to endure a crucifixion type of slow, lingering, excruciatingly painful type of death OR you let go and move on with your life. The last thing I would like is for anybody to have to go through what I had to endure.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Male trainer. Sexless marriage. You taking care of domestic issues (kids). Her attitude towards you.

Might as well move this to CWI.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Ripper said:


> Male trainer. Sexless marriage. You taking care of domestic issues (kids). Her attitude towards you.
> 
> Might as well move this to CWI.


OP has not said the sex of the trainer. Everyone saying male trainer is speculating at this point.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> OP has not said the sex of the trainer. Everyone saying male trainer is speculating at this point.


Acknowledged.

At this point, I am just waiting for verification. All the other pieces fit. Hope it isn't the case, for OPs sake.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

If it's a female trainer, tell your wife you want to come to a session or two with her, then hit on the trainer.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

luvnyr99 said:


> i agree she's being wrong by treating him the way she has. Don't get me wrong i see the degree of frustration with her he may have ,does he want to stay married.Im pretty sure he does,and its a deeper issue then not getting sex,we all feel and become certain ways for a reason. And yeah when ur not connected to another ,yeah it can feel like being strangers. reply for Unbeleiveable


A stranger can't prevent him from having sex or other displays of physical affection. He doesn't work primarily to support a stranger. One can't "stay" married unless one has a wife.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

A few points...

-you work 13 hour days 7 days per week
-you go to the gym
-you work with her in a business

When she sees you, it's as a business partner, not a husband. The lack of sex isn't the problem it's everything else in your life. You don't spend quality time with your wife and when you do, you probably want sex, right? 

I'd suggest...

-don't engage in arguments with her. when she becomes angry tell her you'll discuss the issue when things are calmer (NOT when SHE'S calmer. Choose your words correctly).

-make sure you have quality, non-work time together. If you don't have enough hours in the day, it doesn't help the situation.

-keep initiating. make her say no. You don't want to be down the road complaining and have her say "well you never asked for it."

-don't be looking for "sex". You want a "fulfilling, intimate sexual relationship" with your wife. This goes hand in hand with monogamy.

-don't be embarrassed about wanting that intimate relationship. don't accept her put-down of "you only want sex" or "all you think about is sex".


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## luvnyr99 (Dec 19, 2014)

........Chaos......IM Sorry things didn't work out,even though you said you didn't regret it, Sorry she didn't love you I'm sure someone out there will, I'm sure there are plenty that sadly have to end that way. But what works for some doesn't work for all. I was sharing basics i believe he needs to observe before jumping on to nasty steps of divorce or affairs thats so prominate to our culture which would cause way more drama,hurt,regret,etc. Sex is important i know. I have learned/exsperienced a deeper intimacy with my husband just by really connecting to him and really going through some hard times, so if its as simple as it is hard resolving a problem to experience what kind of sex you can have after good and bad. Then Thank God for sex it was created for Good. But relationship is just has strong. ... Chaos...


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## luvnyr99 (Dec 19, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> A stranger can't prevent him from having sex or other displays of physical affection. He doesn't work primarily to support a stranger. One can't "stay" married unless one has a wife.


I agree a stranger cant prevent sex,affection, but what i meant is its not just the sex he's missing in his wife, He misses his wifes , love , affection, closeness they had at one time. We don't marry for SEX right? I Love sex it does bring a closeness as it was created to I'm sure she needs to orgasm to believe me. There is some other issue.... He does have a wife there just not connected..What i mean when i used stranger is there is no connection .... Therefore just as going by in life as we walk by a person we don't know. .. So yeah it might feel like a roommate relation, but she's not she's a women he does love.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Its a female trainer ...and my wife is 47...i am 44


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> Its a female trainer ...and my wife is 47...i am 44


Good to know .

happy, when is the last time your wife went to the doctor, and had a clean bill of health?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

happybuddha said:


> Its a female trainer ...and my wife is 47...i am 44


Going through the change, perhaps?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Probably last doctor visit has been...2 years ago. It was suggested she get hormone and endocrine panel...full test. .she never did it..and is avoiding it...even know I have suggested it.....half dozen times.....


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

More than likely the change is upon her. Hold on to your nutz. You are going to be in for quite a ride my friend. It is my understanding, that it is hard to truly find out harm one levels during this time, because one day they may be normal, and the next day they are jacked up.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

How long does the change take...a few years...I feel like she's70 sometimes by how much she sleeps.... and her energy Iis really low..vibration.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Thound said:


> More than likely the change is upon her. Hold on to your nutz. You are going to be in for quite a ride my friend. It is my understanding, that it is hard to truly find out harm one levels during this time, because one day they may be normal, and the next day they are jacked up.


It can last 10 years or more. Depends on her chemistry, but I still think there is a relationship problem. Are the 2 of you completely open and honest with each other? Is there intimacy between y'all, and I don't mean sex?


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> Probably last doctor visit has been...2 years ago. It was suggested she get hormone and endocrine panel...full test. .she never did it..and is avoiding it...even know I have suggested it.....half dozen times.....


Well, if it is the menopause, that could explain it.

It is possible that in the next year or so, she could become sexually insatiable for a while.

However, if a doctor suggested she get a full endocrine panel, and she won't; that's irresponsible. Can you approach her in this way?

I mean, they might be able to catch a disease in it's beginning stages.

She may be in denial about getting older.

"I'm too old to be sexy, it's ridiculous", that type of thinking.

In other words, it might not have anything to do with you. This is in her.

But, of course it affects you so much.

Really wish she would go to the doctor.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Initimacy, we hold hands we have lunch together, We go out to dinner and have dates on Saturday night where I listen to how she feels. We talk at night and when in bed she talks about all of her thoughts ..

I talk with her about life. She shares how she feels about life and work and people. I give her massages ..she talks to me all of the time.. I help her by trying to do things to make her life easier..

Define intimacy ...?

We try and communicate about issues. When that happens she then becomes extreme and says that she feels pressure and that perhaps we need to take a break from each other.

I think she has very low energy and has a hard time dealing with much right now... I wish I knew the answer ...

Even when I do a lot to help her she doesnt see it and what I do doesnt seem to register much with her ...

I wonder ..

As far as the doctor, I have set up free appointments for her and recommended a few and said that exact thing. I said that her health is important and that for her our daughter and everything and that her health should come before all else ....

I dont know how else to word it because even if I talk with her after she tells me how she feels ... if I mention something 1 time every 2 months, to her it feels like I tell her 3 times per day when that is not the fact...all extremes at this point....


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> *I think she has very low energy and has a hard time dealing with much right now...* I wish I knew the answer ...
> 
> Even when I do a lot to help her she doesnt see it and what I do doesnt seem to register much with her ...
> 
> ...



If she is always exhausted; how does she have the energy to go and work out regularly? See, that doesn't make sense.

Chronic tiredness can indicate thyroid issues.

Could she be scared of going to the doctor; because she thinks they will find something wrong with her (like cancer).

Some people like to stick their head in the sand. In other words: "If I don't know about it, it isn't happening."

She _must_ be intelligent and capable to be running a business with you. So she *can* understand that she should go to the doctor if she is always tired, and the doctor has previously advised an endocrine panel.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry but I have no sympathy for menopause.

Your wifee knows she is probably going through menopause and that usually means changing hormones and decreased sex drive.

She knows you are horny and want sex with her.

She is responsible for her own body, not you. If she wants to take care of business or not, it is all on her.

She is to take care of your needs as her own and not only her own.

Ladies know us guys are hornier and built that way.

If you decided to cut out the emotional support and closeness with her like she has sexually with you, would she be wanting you both to see a marriage counselor?

Takes some classes or read books together?

This is cruel on her part and I feel for yah brother.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

+1 on the possible thyroid issue. If that is out or whack, which is very very common you are fighting a loosing battle until that is addressed.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

how can you tell if its a thyroid issue or adrenal fatigue. Every time I tell her about doctor she gets stressed and bites at me about me giving her space. Perhaps the fear is her Mom passed away and was sick and taking meds..

It does not make sense with her making time for the gym and not sex. she works out 4 times per week.

Yesterday was date night and we went to dinner talked and had a good conversation. Came home I asked if she wanted a massage and she said she just wants to relax.. I gave her a massage.. then she 
laid there and shut her eyes this was at 830 pm..

I was bored of just laying next to her and I did not want to irritate her so I got up and blew out the candle..she asked where I was going, I said your tired and I will just leave you relax.. I am going to go watch TV because I am not tired and do not want to sleep right now..

I was all wound up from giving her a massage and our date - this seems to be a common ending every night. frankly I am getting kind of bored at this ending most nights...

Coming on here at least allows me to speak with someone since I cant have this discussion with her anymore or she gets irritable ..

I really do not know what to do ...I read about some of these conversations on here and think GOSH-- what is happening with 
my wife and after I while I start wondering what I can do more ?

Its vacation and I have planned a trip with family and I really just want her to have excitement and energy about us spending time together...

Perhaps we spend too much time together. Maybe I need to go do productive things more and do the things I love first and let her come to me out of missing me ..

Its hard when you have sex one time in 5 months, you wake up turned on, you take a shower and say gosh .. I wish my wife would want me .. and perhaps I need to make myself less available and be around less... I dont want to play games but I feel kind of taken for granted..

Life is going by and I want her to enjoy my company .

I am trying to think what can I do to cause her to go to the doctor or wonder about herself.

Perhaps I should get up early at 5 am - go the gym bring my clothes and start spending more time away in the am..vs trying to wake her up and so so much around house.. I dont know...

I feel very sad about her energy and our sex life not being there. I want to have fun with her and be adventurous with her - have a day where we have sex a few times and hang out in a hotel - but you can not do that or make that happen if she wants to be left alone, sleep or if I do it and her energy is low..she will say things that are a turn off for the romantic mood...

I dont want another year to go by like this.

Here are my ideas:

1) Schedule one day away from my family for my own personal day.
2) Schedule a yoga class to take 3-4 times per day 
3) Work with someone on meditation 
4) Continue my work out 
5) Take class 1-2 nights per week on my passion / things I want to learn or advance in 
6) AT work try and work in a separate room - perhaps different office
7) Talk to more new people - go to social events to netwrk and meet new men and women- she can come too...

I dont know. I have read books, gone to coaches, and I am like broken record at this point. Me working on me doesnt necessarily work only for me - she has to play a part of want to play a part in this game..

Gosh. I would do anything to get her back in the groove.. If she asked me to give her oral sex 5 times a day I would, if she called me and said shes at home I would leave to come and meet her .. PErhaps that fact that I would do anything for her is the reason she is not desiring me ..maybe i need to do less and be around less.. and get out of sight ..

This really hurts me and ruins the mood for me. Even when trying to plan things now - I am like what is the point since its the same outcome all of the time ..

I might need a doctor soon. I feel like i am going crazy and at times she makes me feel weird that I even want sex...


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Maybe she needs hormone replacement therapy?

Read neuklas's thread.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

I was discussing with my wife a while back about TRT and now it may take up to an hour for me to get there during PIV. She said if it gets where you can't climax ....I'm done. I let her know if there is no intimacy there is no marriage. She seemed a little pissy so I rolled over and closed my eyes....then she quickly rolled over on me and had her way. 

She used to be one who would say we just had sex the other day....what you mean 7 days ago?


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

When is the last time you initiated sex?
Tell us exactly what happened. 
Describe the scene: morning or Nite? Bedroom or kitchen?
What exactly did you say/do?
What exactly did she say/do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

OP- it is totally counterintuitive, but you've got to drop the mindset of doing more. Every additional thing you do for her just digs the hole deeper.

She knows you want her. You don't need to convince her of that.

Stop the romantic gestures, dinners out. I would skip the vacation if I were you, but if you must do it, abandon any expectation that you'll get sex during it. Make it about your kids and do not treat it like it is some gesture toward your wife.

You need to establish some distance from her so she has a chance to see what she's missing out on.

Your situation totally sucks and it is a shame that you won't be rewarded for being such a good guy. But you won't.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Yes. Definitely sucks...and the fact I ddon't have sex makes me think about even..more.

I seem to be noticing...everything...related..to sex...lol


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Do I even initiate.? .lately...I have been turned off...by thinking about her having no interest in sex...and looking tired....


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If you had a lazy, indifferent, disloyal, uncommitted, employee, would you correct their behavior by giving them a raise or increasing their benefits? Giving them glowing employee evaluations? I don't know any arena in which rewarding bad behavior corrects bad behavior.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> how can you tell if its a thyroid issue or adrenal fatigue. Every time I tell her about doctor she gets stressed and bites at me about me giving her space.* Perhaps the fear is her Mom passed away and was sick and taking meds..
> *
> 
> 
> ...



happybuddha,

If your wife's mom died while sick and taking meds; it could be possible that she doesn't trust doctors.

Like I said before, some people think that "ignorance is bliss". If *I don't know* that I have thyroid or adrenal failure, or am entering menopause, or have cancer; then it can't be happening.

Obviously this is a fear-based attitude, and does not make sense.

Does your wife have any relatives that you could talk to? Tell them you are concerned about her health; because she is always tired (DON'T say anything about her sex problems). Maybe then, that relative could approach her gently about seeing a doctor?

Did you really mean to take yoga 4x a day -- do you mean 4x a week?

Finally, can you get help from your religious leader. I assume from your username that you are a Buddhist. I don't know anything about it really. But is there a priest/pastor (what the equivalent is in Buddhism), that can counsel you? How about your wife? What does Buddhism teach about denying your mate sexual relations?


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> Do I even initiate.? .lately...I have been turned off...by thinking about her having no interest in sex...and looking tired....


As I expected. You do a lot more "talking" with her about sex than actually trying to have sex (that would require you to initiate).
Are you sincere about wanting to fix your sexless marriage?
Or do you just want to come here to vent?
If serious, hang with me: how long ago since you last initiated?
Describe that encounter in detail, what did you say, she say, etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Thound said:


> More than likely the change is upon her. Hold on to your nutz. You are going to be in for quite a ride my friend. It is my understanding, that it is hard to truly find out harm one levels during this time, because one day they may be normal, and the next day they are jacked up.


I just thought I'd peek in and comment. Nothing particularly helpful to add - only my experience.

I have thyroid problems (Hashimoto's), and I've begun perimenopause (no period in two months and multiple hot flashes throughout the day). I also don't really orgasm all that often.

I have to say, none of that affects my appetite, because I consider my sexual response to be much more mental. And again, this is just me. 

The main, number one killer for my desire is male passivity.

My ex-husband helped me around the house to the point of competition and suffocation. I don't remember it ever increasing my fondness for him. (Actually, it did the opposite.)

Assertiveness matters. 

I liked to feel wanted, and the more my boyfriend comes after me (chasing, initiating - with actions though, not words) the more excited I get.

But the more docile he becomes, the more frustrated I get.

This past weekend, he (my boyfriend) was asked for his thoughts several times, and, without fail, he just shrugged, _like a little boy_.

Have an opinion. Make decisions.

I don't know that men understand the power of being a reliable, responsible, confident leader.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

minimalME said:


> ...snip...
> Assertiveness matters.
> 
> I liked to feel wanted, and the more my boyfriend comes after me (chasing, initiating - with actions though, not words) the more excited I get.
> ...snip...



happybuddha, please read the above post very carefully.
She is telling you exactly what your problem is.
You MUST initiate sex. With actions, not words. Be assertive.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Tommyr:

I do initiate: I massage her kiss her, make out with her and many times she pulls back or she says I just want to relax. I am tired..

When I lay in bed and initiate with her she says why when you get in bed do you always start with me in bed....

I dont know. I have had lots of turn downs. I feel screwed up a bit now because of so many no's or her getting annoyed at me starting - or she may say can I just give you a massage ...? and not have sex


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I must say its been very hard lately. Then I think perhaps I should just masterbate and make myself feel good. Then I don't want to have sex with her as much...

I just feel very alone-- since she has no interest in sex..its really got me down around the holidays now that we have extra time away from work ... 

I also feel a bit frustrated at my so called date nights. What is the point if we can't even spend any intimate time together .. to have a date night ...

Gosh - things have changed definitely .. I know if when we first started dating if I sat in front of my computer and ignored her or the date ended with me just wanting to go to sleep.. would that really be a fun date or night ??LOL

Crazy .. I sincerely am starting to feel a bit crazy .. today i went to the gym and felt a bit angry at the whole situation ..

What do i do ??


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Well stop the date nights asap. Stop helping her out. Stop the affection and attention. Ignore her. Give only as much as you get.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

When i Iinitiate ...with my wife ...she gets irritated that I'm coming on to her......

how do you deal..with that ?

Mentally..she just Iis checked ..out sexually.........

hey I wish....she responded..ffavorable. ..

if yo ONLY jknew..how horny....iI was...once in 5 months. ....


then she asks me ..are you generally a happy person......

I have communicated ..my needs and ideas ....however...she ddoesn't..get it


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

happy, I want to clarify what I meant by assertiveness. I'm talking about a way of being, not a moment in time.

So, if you're compartmentalizing, and only seeing this as an issue in the bedroom, you may end up frustrated for a very long time.

Are you familiar with MEM's posts about the temperature of a relationship? If not, going through them may help.

You're considered the 'hot' person in the relationship, and your wife is 'cold'. In order to regain some balance between the two of you, you might consider destabilizing the relationship - which is more or less what WOM was recommending.

BUT to be clear, the motivation IS NOT to be nasty to her or punish her. 

The intention is to take care of yourself, so that you maintain your self-respect and sanity.

So, in terms of throwing the relationship off a little, you disengage and put the focus on making yourself stronger.

I disagree with WOM in that I don't think it's necessary (or healthy) to ignore her. I just think your boundaries need to be firm.

A couple of examples. 

Lets say you want to go see the new Lord of the Rings movie, but you know she doesn't. Invite her to go anyway. And if she says no, your plans stay the same - buy your popcorn and raisinettes and cherry coke (I'm projecting ) - and enjoy the movie.

You want to ride your motorcycle, but she has a list of things she'd like you to do around the house? Invite her to go riding with you. When she objects, you just calmly tell her you've made plans, you'd love for her to go to, but if she chooses not to, you'll see her when you get back, and you'll tend to the household stuff on your own timetable.

The invitations are genuine. You do desire to be with her, but just do it your own way.

I'm sure others can come up with better examples, but you get the idea?

I understand that this may seem unrelated to your sex life, but for a woman, everything you're doing outside the bedroom matters and has a direct influence on her level of respect and desire for you.

You've said she's annoyed and irritated by your behavior. That tells me she sees you as less than. And one way to help is to back off and become the cooler person.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> Tommyr:
> I do initiate: I massage her kiss her, make out with her and many times she pulls back or she says I just want to relax. I am tired..


... so you tell her (sincerely) _ok dear, get some rest. I'll bring you coffee in an hour then we strip naked and I will tire you out all over again._
In other words, give her the space to relax while (playfully) making specific plans for the physical relationship afterwards.



happybuddha said:


> When I lay in bed and initiate with her she says why when you get in bed do you always start with me in bed....


You reply, grinning, something flirtatious like _wow I didn't realize that, you are soooo right and I apologize. Let's go do it in the kitchen instead_ 



happybuddha said:


> I dont know. I have had lots of turn downs. I feel screwed up a bit now because of so many no's or her getting annoyed at me starting - or she may say can I just give you a massage ...? and not have sex


If she says "no" (and means it) then you need to keep calm and cool and nice, but tell her that tomorrow nite 9pm is "getting down to business time" 

Again the point is that any specific moment, she's allowed to be not-in-the-mood, but take that same moment to put a specific day/time on her mental calendar for sex.



happybuddha said:


> When i Iinitiate ...with my wife ...she gets irritated that I'm coming on to her......
> 
> how do you deal..with that ?


Really? she gets irritated? And it's beyond the point where you can playfully redirect her instinctive not-right-now response into a specific raincheck for tomorrow night?
If that's really the case, well I do have effective advice for that situation, but from what you've said so far, I still believe your basic problem is the pure mechanics of how/when you initiate, and how you deal with her instinctive "no" response. Work on converting the "no" into a "not right now... but tomorrow morning" 
Why not try this approach and see what happens?
If no progress, then you can move on to deal with a partner who just does not care about your needs.
Other posters have already started down that path of advice (hint: stop meeting her needs) but I still think you've overlooked a more obvious solution, which is to actually learn how to initiate sex.



happybuddha said:


> Mentally..she just Iis checked ..out sexually.........


That is a bummer, but even if true, I still think that you would be very surprised at the results if YOU could shift the focus from "endless discussions about why we never have sex" over to more assertive initiation (with ample room for her to say not-right-now).



happybuddha said:


> hey I wish....she responded..ffavorable. ..
> 
> if yo ONLY jknew..how horny....iI was...once in 5 months. ....
> 
> ...


Here is what she gets: utterly turned off by your incessant whining about you never having sex. Stop communicating about it. Start initiating sex physically not verbally. I'm NOT advising you get all rapey! If she is just not up for it, that is perfectly fine, you STOP but you keep on smiling and you establish a specific time (later tonite; tomorrow; whenver) to get intimate.


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## luvnyr99 (Dec 19, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Well stop the date nights asap. Stop helping her out. Stop the affection and attention. Ignore her. Give only as much as you get.


Thats not gonna work..


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Last ..night we cuddled..while wwatching Tv....i kissed her on sofa...and in bed...and was feeling her body. ..I tend to feel...like I am doing all the work and she isnt reciprocating the touch to me....

So as I am initiating..she throws a comment Iinto the mix...that it's amazing how ppeople can experience the same thing and react ddifferently. ..I asked what she meant..

she them goes on to share several times in the last 15 years where she got in arguments ..and I acted calmly...at those situations ..vs. me getting Iin a fight with those ppeople..and defending her.....

I explained that I don't feel fighting..and not..challenging...crazy people..is smart..in this world... 

how she has felt that I dont...love her when she kknows...iI do...and she is..trying to figure out why I act like that....

this is at midnight when I am starting..to initiate...with her...she bbrings up an Iincident..that happened a week ago..and 15..years ago...so after she puts that out there ...she wonders. ..then..she goes to sleep....aandsI stay awake and wonder..aand snoutwwhat she said and all revved up..sexually.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

She ..seems ..to do this many times...to me when in bed....she moves to aanother topic...and then goes to sleep..... i just do not know ..how to deal with these things....they obviously bbother her and take up sspace Iin her mind. ..it sounds like she has many issues with..me she cannot figure out and ssome of them come from her not trusting anyone ppersonality at times ...

yet...I am good enough to her to have her request that I do work at 11 pm at night or things about work. ..yet..I work so hard..but when it comes to what I want at night. .she distracts..herself from that situation....why can we work until 2 am on our bbusiness..yet we can have sex..past 845 pm...because of tthe time. ..

perhaps work is more of a priority ...sometimes even she just gets on ssubjects...and discussions...that have no answer...or destination......just..wwondering why life is the way..it is.....


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## ducrider (Sep 24, 2013)

Sounds like she is just distracting you to get what she wants, if it was my wife I would think she is cheating
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## prettygirlpa (Dec 17, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> She asked what you wanted for Christmas? A great response would have been. "Same thing I want every day. A wife."


That's a great response.


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## prettygirlpa (Dec 17, 2014)

Your wife is not attracted to you. I think the best thing for you to do is take a break from each other. Maybe she is interested in someone else.


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## luvnyr99 (Dec 19, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> Last ..night we cuddled..while wwatching Tv....i kissed her on sofa...and in bed...and was feeling her body. ..I tend to feel...like I am doing all the work and she isnt reciprocating the touch to me....
> 
> So as I am initiating..she throws a comment Iinto the mix...that it's amazing how ppeople can experience the same thing and react ddifferently. ..I asked what she meant..
> 
> ...


happybuddha.. like I Have stated in previous post.... That issue she brought up.that happen weeks and years ago... thats a deep issue she ponders,hurts,.bothers her on daily and thats why it feels so distance from her sexually cause otherwise you sound like a dream to some women, i don't know what happen but I've been in this same spot,and i desired my husband so but because i pondered and grew bitter towards him because i felt he wasn't sorry or didn't care about the issue. It never got delt with we didn't hardly have sex either and if we did I felt like it was just for him,i could care less though....AND i would never bring it up and talk about the issue until maybe sex why probaley cause thats a real personal time . When she does that you really need to deal with this issue now,15 yrs is a long time but it lingers that long. And will continue to, I gaurenntee it. Ive been in exact same spot in a big similarity.. telling my story . And my husband He felt the same he just quit even trying with me.It will only get worse and you both will grow apart..Its a slow long fade then you look back and there went 20 years. I really never PUSHED HIM AWAY I did let him have sex with me but it was empty sex,and i felt used,but it was lose of connection i held something in all this time . And neither of us wanted to and didn't know how to deal with it but if ur on same page you just learn together.. i wish i could of understood then what i understand now about my husband .. What i mean as how he deals with things, issue, communication,ect. Who has the more open outgoing personality trait you or her??? sorry so long


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## prettygirlpa (Dec 17, 2014)

You need to sit down with her and tell her how it is, you need to get your balls back. I think you are just to nice to her and she plays you however she wants. Change your ways, stop doing things for her, don't pay her no attention, make her wonder why you have changed so much. 

Best of luck!


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I read all of these things she's throwing at you when you initiate as sh-t tests.

She's bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with the situation you're in at that moment.

I don't not believe this is about some deep seated issue she has that she just happens to decide to raise at that particular moment.

She has just lost attraction for you and she is throwing up whatever shield she can to push you away.

Honestly, women will gladly sleep with men who are straight up d-cks when they are attracted to them.

If she is not into you when you try to come on to her, better to just walk away than to engage her in this BS.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

First of all, stop giving her massages. All it does is put her to sleep and make you horny. All your doing is torturing yourself.

Next thing you do is open your mouth and let it all out and put a cherry on top by not letting her get a word in edgewise and if it was me, I would move her belongings out of the martial bedroom and into the spare bedroom and tell her that since she doesn't want to act like a wife should act she can bunk out on her own and let her know that if she doesn't get herself to a doctor and find out what her problem is, things will get a whole lot worse. 

Once she sees that she pushed you to your limit and your not taking another step back, she just might wake up and start to see that she's running the risk of losing more than she bargained for. Put it in her lap.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

OP,

When are you ready to say enough is enough?

Your posts sound very repetitive. You're obviously frustrated.

Wife doesn't seem to respond at all.

So how long are you going to remain in this situation?


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## BronzeTorpedo (Dec 17, 2014)

As others have said, you need to stop working harder and start working smarter. Working into the wee hours on your business will not make your wife desire you sexually. Ditto for giving her massages or talking to her.

Stop tweaking your strategies and expecting different results. Your wife has no desire for you sexually. So stop complaining that, instead of waiting until 8:30 to massage her, you started at 8, but still got nowhere. Of course you didn't.

You know the definition of insanity, don't you? You need to radically change your behavior if you want your wife to radically change hers.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

This moving her stuff out...sounds good...and all but being the person my wife is....i dont think that wwill work. ..

my wife..takes a stand ...at all costs...in an argument. ..she doesn't..back down even one bit.... 


last time we had a discussion ...about making our relationship..a priority. .and her seeing the..

doctor and coming..up with a solution..
Her response. ..was maybe..we need to separate..and ttake time apart for a little bit...as it doesn't ..sound like your happy...

She said she felt...pressure ...

there have been other..times where she has even ..mentioned ...perhaps I can not please you...maybe .you should find someone who wants to have sex..every day...

you expect..me to work..take care of family..laundry...and also have sex....

She gives me eextreme reactions many times on simple..lloving and solutions based ..conversations ...

She has admitted that her libido. ..is not the same way....and she also has even gone...down..the path ..that maybe we want different..things out of life..because she ddoesn't..understand...why ppeople..want to have sex...so much..

What's crazy..is ..she's the same person..when we dated was sexually agressive..had sex...iin car with me..gave oral...and initiated...sex...and the same person ...who asked me to consider a vasectomy . ..8 months ago.... 

she's so back and forth..its..crazy...she will say she would have more sex with me...iif I didn't act..weird ..around sex....yet..she will tell me..she is..exhausted...she has pains..when we have sex...then she will tell me she has no issues. ...

frankly..its.. a roller coaster

there are times i want..to really have sex...like..mad..with..her...then I think...what if..hurt..her...



Her response..


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

This is hard stuff. ..she comes across..tired ..all..of the time...iI know I encourage and become supportive...but YES...I am stuck....

where do you draw the line..


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

It sounds to me like you haven't been telling her how wonderful, beautiful, fabulous, gorgeous and fun to be around she is. Probably because she's not.

So, she's ready to scuttle you for treating her the way she deserves and find another swinging chad that will give her those attention and compliments. Because he hasn't had to live with the shrew, and only wants in her pants, it will be fairly easy to fake.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Notice she suggests separation, not divorce. She still believes she's in the driver's seat and you'll cave and accept a life of neglect and abuse. You're already separated. That's the problem. I'd tell her any plan that doesn't involve the object of more closeness as the primary goal is unacceptable, that there's hardly any point in slaving for a business that will only be sold during the inevitable divorce.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Interesting. ....maybe I do need to insist...in a friendlier less attached way...

sex..seems..to...be on my brain more nnow with. ..increased workouts...a sexier..bbod. .and none..of it. ...


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

When she said she thought separation or divorce was a good idea, the CORRECT response would have been "you know, I'm glad you said that, because I've been thinking about it as well and have decided that is a good idea". 

Find your balls. Put her on notice, and on her heels, then keep her there until you have completely followed through and are divorced, or she comes around and starts chasing you again. 

Have you read MMSL? Good place to start. 

Your wife is not attracted to you, because women are simply not attracted to men who are doormats and don't stand up for themselves. PERIOD. Men who women find sexually attractive don't beg, plead, argue, cry about sex. They expect women to WANT it from them, and act like it. 

You will almost never "nice" your way into a woman's panties. If you manage to, it won't last long. It has to be backed up with confidence. And sexual tension. When you are essentially taking all her crap, and still coming to her for sex, sexual tension is GONE, and she no longer finds you attractive. You're just another "nice guy"...and "nice guys" do not make women "hot". Quite the opposite, most women fear and / or are repulsed by them. 

Women, no different than men. We all like to "chase". Even after 10 years of marriage. When the other party starts to slack off, lowers their sexual standing (by getting fat, lazy, putting up with bullcrap, hovering, jealousy, insecurity, etc), the other person is going to lose interest. And sexual attraction. 

Ever hear of the "cat-string theory"? Google it. 

Find the "good guy" balance. Some nice guy traits, but some bad boy traits as well. Be a good man, but don't take chit...ESPECIALLY just for the sake of getting laid. 

Sounds like she's thrown a few hundred chit tests (aka "fitness tests") your way, and you've "failed" all of them. 

Time to turn it around, or you will be sexless and frustrated for life, or will be trying it all over again with a new woman who likes "nice guys". Until she becomes bored with that crap as well...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

happybuddha said:


> my wife..takes a stand ...at all costs...in an argument. ..she doesn't..back down even one bit....
> 
> 
> last time we had a discussion ...about making our relationship..a priority. .and her seeing the..
> ...


 Tell you why. because she can read you like a book and she knows full well, you'll take it and do nothing to counter.

Of course she's not going to back down because she knows beforehand she's going to win. 

Then she throws out that "we need to separate" and knows you'll fold your cards and concede the win. You keep backing up and she keeps pushing the limit and you let her.

If it's me, I don't discuss it with her, I just wait until she leaves the house then move her stuff in the other room and when she comes back let her know that she now sleeps in the spare room and if she brings up the separation thing, tell her she's half way there now and if it keeps up she'll get the full Monty and tell her to get to the doctors or her days with you are numbered.

For Gods sake man, stop backing up and make a stand and let her hot foot it on the coals for a change.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The once in five months type LD is hardly going to be concerned about destabilization...

She may react favorably at first nut not well in the long term.

Make her life a wee more than "unstable" and maybe tf will work.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

happybuddha said:


> She ..seems ..to do this many times...to me when in bed....she moves to aanother topic...and then goes to sleep..... i just do not know ..how to deal with these things....they obviously bbother her and take up sspace Iin her mind. ..it sounds like she has many issues with..me she cannot figure out and ssome of them come from her not trusting anyone ppersonality at times ...
> 
> yet...I am good enough to her to have her request that I do work at 11 pm at night or things about work. ..yet..I work so hard..but when it comes to what I want at night. .she distracts..herself from that situation....why can we work until 2 am on our bbusiness..yet we can have sex..past 845 pm...because of tthe time. ..
> 
> perhaps work is more of a priority ...sometimes even she just gets on ssubjects...and discussions...that have no answer...or destination......just..wwondering why life is the way..it is.....


Have the two of you gone to marriage counseling?

She might genuinely have things that she need to work through in order to feel good about being intimate with her.

These things she brought up are about her not feeling protected by you. 

Are there other themes to the things she brings up?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

She doesnt believe in marriage counseling - she feels like they steal your money. I have suggested this now a few times...

Well my wife seems to hold on to a lot of things from the past
It seems as times like she is angry at me for things from before
or almost as if there is some grudge against me .. 

Tonight we were on the sofa and I wanted to lay next to her and 
she said there was hardly any room. It seems like she is always
busy these days up till 10 pm.

She is always busy doing something. To me it seems as if she is
distracting herself from wanting to connect to me.

Tonight when I went to lay in bed she made a comment that she 
thinks when the new year starts that I should join some kind of 
group to spend time with other people one day a week so that I 
have time to myself. She said it seems as if I am unhappy and
it would perhaps do me good and perhaps it would be good for her 
to find some kind of group as well, like a club or some thing that 
would give me some time to myself so I have some time by myself.

She stated to say that she thinks that I am never happy when she 
is around with just her and me. I said that I am and that I listen 
to what she has going on, we go to movies and go out to dinner…

The one thing that i said kind of bothers me is I feel as if she is
always yawning in my wife or that she is tired when we go out..
That gets to me - its like she is always exhausted ..

I told her i like to have fun and do positive things.. She said 
it seems though overtime we are by ourselves without our daughter
I seem unhappy …

Tonight she went on to tell me of this incident that occurred last 
week and years back where I reacted by telling her to calm down when
she was arguing with someone. She felt that because that person was
in the wrong she should not let them get away with it. I explained 
how I take a more peaceful walk away approach with all the crazy 
people in the world. She said she did not buy it, by me telling her 
to calm down instead of arguing or confronting that person she said 
that I was belittling her by telling her to calm down - as she was
very emotional in a public place in front of people that work for us.

She said that I should have confronted the person instead of asking 
her to walk away and talk. she said that if someone is doing something 
wrong you can’t let them get away with it. She said that I seem to 
want to take a walk away approach instead of standing up to them 
and telling them how you feel.

She almost feels if someone is wrong that you have to not let them 
get away with doing that - no matter what the cost. At the moment 
there is an incident with family where she has hired an attorney and 
already spent more than what the things were worth her family tried 
to take…and time away from us - but she feels that its the principle 
that she should not let her family get away with it ..

Its costing money, she is angry and its something else she is holding 
on to as well to prove she’s right . I am not sure it make sense but 
If it makes her happy to follow through on something like that to 
make a point - I guess that is ok, I am not saying I would do that .

I have had conversations with her over and over about us spending time
together. Most nights after I put our daughter to bed, almost every 
night when I come out she is on her laptop working or doing something

When I come out its like i am second to the lab top and by the time
she puts it down its 10 pm. I have asked her nicely and talked with 
her about this and making time for us - yet she looks at that as 
a complaint ..

Tonight when I said I am positive and I am not unhappy all of the time’
I mentioned working every night and her always being tired. Then she 
said so your blaming me and telling me I am causing you unhappiness ?
No I said, I am just saying that its kind of annoying that when we 
do have time together you seem tired, yawning or talking about work..

I also said that I listen to everything you have to say about life 
and your concerns, when I explain my concerns they are issues to you
and you don’t seem to want to listen to what I say.. you seem to 
miss what I say or request … I listen to everything you suggest , think 
about or say ..

The last few nights we spoke about a bunch of issues at night. There is
a pattern, Date night saturday we spoke about what happens when you die,
where do you go, she wondered where do you go when you die, and what is 
on the other side - I guess that is a fun date night topic - then after 
that date night we went home and went to sleep after she got tired….

The next day we discussed work , then the next day talked about issue that 
happened a week ago in her office that she did not like me trying to calm 
her down, it seems as if she wants me to fight for her - even if its getting 
sucked into emotions…

I feel so screwed. Today I did a bunch of nice things, went to breakfast as 
a family, we went shopping got some things, I went and picked up lunch 
brought her a coffee, and picked up dinner which took some time. When my 
daughter went to sleep I wanted to spend time with her - but she was on 
the computer .. I sat next t o her and we talked and then she decided at 
10 pm to turn on the tv.. I felt a bit like what the hell, before that she 
yawned about 10 times and was wrapped in a blanket ..

Then when I laughed at her turning on the tv- she said OMG, I said what is
that for. She said you have an attitude or some issue - what is wrong with 
you - … 

its funny to me, i can do a bunch of nice things and then at the end of the day 
i feel like i get the cold shoulder- shut down for any sex attitude from her 
too tired.. but i guess i am good enough to run around getting things all day 
and working ..

I just am not sure - what to do ..

She asked me a day ago if I was generally a happy person ?
Today she says that she thinks I am unhappy - in a way I am 
just unhappy that the one thing I want us to work out - is 
when do we get private time together, where is the husband wife
priority time next to all of the other things …

As far as feeling protected. I earn lots of money and she hasn’t had to work 
for the last 4 years because I made enough, we are debt free. and I 
do look after everyone .. While she wasn’t working my daughter was 
going to school from 9 to 5 pm and we have someone clean the house.

I cook myself breakfast almost every morning, we eat out most of the time
therefore not much cooking required and we both go to the trainer and gym.

So from my perspective she is way supported and protected. Yet perhaps she 
has this illusion with all that I do - that perhaps she is not loved ..or 
perhaps she is not good enough or perhaps that she thinks I am unhappy 
with her and us…

I have had several conversations that I want to work on the intimate thing.
She has even explained that she feels I put more in the relationship then 
she does and that I work harder at it then she does…..

Perhaps she is just tired because a hormonal imbalance or adrenal fatigue.
she is 47 , I am 44 and I know she has to be going through changes. When 
I spoke to a counselor and a doctor before- they suggested endocrine test 
yet - I can’t seem to get her to go the doctor..

I know some on here suggest an ultimatum, I just am not sure with all 
going that giving her an ultimatum would work.. she is the type who 
is walk away take a stand just for her pride vs breaking down on a threat
and I really think there must be another way to find some solution ….

As I write this response, she is sleeping - I am up and wound up.
It sucks, I can’t say - we have discussed this over and over perhaps 
we should cancel our date night because it doesn’t seem to be a date
night to me, we go out and have a great dinner and movie or hang out 
but that 1 time per week that I am looking for my date needs to be met
they are not because your too tired to care about it - - then the 
weekend passes and we do the same all over, perhaps your needs are 
being met by me talking and listening and us spending time but what I want 
from us being together is not …

I am sure if I say this, she probably would react EXTREME like she 
always seems to react …

I must say this is the most frustrating thing in my life I have had to 
deal with - I have tried to talk - yet that doesn’t work - then it has 
become from her perspective my fault, she thinks I am not happy. Even 
though I have explained why - she doesn’t get it 

She says I don’t really want to be around you - if your unhappy . What
a catch 22…. It is …


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## Rosemary's Granddaughter (Aug 25, 2012)

Well, perhaps turn that repetitive complaint on her~ start with her~confront her that what *she* is doing is wrong (withholding intimacy within the marriage), and don't let her "get away with it".

Loud warning bells would go off, for me, if my spouse told me that we should each join other groups of people to spend time with, especially if there is a lack of intimacy within the marriage...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

My wife suggested that I join a group. because she is feeling that I am not getting any time to myself and time away to do things I want to do ...

I actually think that the suggestion came from - a friend who suggested this ...

She thinks that time away from each other might be good. Perhaps it will help my wife realize what she has ... I dont know...

About the marriage thing - she probably would say I am not entitled to sex just because we are married ...LOL

I guess the bigger question is WHO should I be, in order to influence what I want in my life .. and get unstuck...


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## Rosemary's Granddaughter (Aug 25, 2012)

Maybe I'm reading something between the lines that isn't actually there, but my impression from what you've written is that she is attempting to use some reverse psychology to distract you from her. 

It seems straight forward~you need intimacy with her, not a new hobby or a new group of friends. She knows this.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You've been told what to do many times, but you continue to act the same way and put your head in the sand. I can definitely see why you're sexless. Anyway, I'm out for now. You know what they say about the definition of insanity.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

> My wife suggested that I join a group. because she is feeling that I am not getting any time to myself and time away to do things I want to do ...
> 
> I actually think that the suggestion came from - a friend who suggested this ...
> 
> She thinks that time away from each other might be good. Perhaps it will help my wife realize what she has ... I dont know...


You've mentioned this several times now. She is trying to tell you something, and it is likely this: "You are suffocating me. You are too clingly. I treat you like chit to get you to back off, yet you persist. You are annoying the hell out of me. You need to back off and find a life".

So, what should you do with this "request"? The answer is simple. Just DO IT. Stop hovering over her. Stop fawning over a woman that is showing she wants nothing to do with you. Get off your azz, stop kissing hers, and get a hobby that gets you out of the house. 

And start pulling away from her. If you want to "fix this", this is the way to do it. She won't work on things. She won't go to counseling. She is essentially saying she has checked out, or is perfectly fine with the way things are. It is up to YOU to change the way she thinks. The only way you're going to do that is by making her FEAR losing you if she doesn't change. THAT won't happen by kissing her azz, or by bending even further to her will (by pushing up your nightly massages by half an hour. Really?)

Do you know the best way to keep someone from breaking up with you, or at least give yourself an opportunity at another chance if breakup is imminent? BREAK UP WITH THEM FIRST! Even if it feels like a knife to your guts, and it is the last thing in the world you want to do....suggest a break up or break up with them first. 

You've GOT TO PULL AWAY if you are going to create any kind of tension (the good kind) that will get her thinking about you in a good way again. It is impossible to miss someone who is constantly underfoot. She can't have good thoughts about you when there is no time to do so because you are constantly annoying the chit out of her.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Your right...yes i believe I am in insanity..


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

This has been very challenging...I'm also learning a lot around relationships...as..i have read books....ggotten.coaching and etc...

I do need to do what's best for me ...
it's hard because it does hurt...i feel bad
Because she doesnt get it even when..I spell it..out....that is what hurts...is i offer ideas...and solutions....

at times it bothers..me that she brings up
The..past...which tells me she has issues.

relationships are definitely interesting.
on one hand she eexpects. .everything. 
from me...and for herself....yet...i am
To expect..nothing.. from her...hmm..

that's probably what hurts the most...

also the lack of desire to have sex..with
Me has definitely..impacted..my confidence ..nnot..to mention the..
Rejection...and her comments. . 

It's very painful...iI have to get out..
of the painful..and angry part..find
a way to be peaceful and happy
whether she gets it or not. 

I actually..thought that I need to 
Make more friends...meet people .
And have conversations...with
Other people. ..I find Iinteresting.

I'm also thinking about these date 
Nights....doing things i want to do
that I will have fun..doing ..whether 
she likes it or not. ..

its all me...it seems these days....me 
initiating...me planning...me doing...
And me being neglected... 

I wish she would just get it...

I am doing the same thing over and over and eexpecting different results. .I just
have to find a different way..of doing 
this...shift...my pattern...it does hurt...


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Once again your being pushed in a corner and fending off one blow after another.

Tell you what, get rid of the house cleaner, stop bringing home supper and walking behind her picking up everything she drops on the floors while shuffling from her computer to the TV and every other place. 

Seems to me the woman has the best of both worlds and feels like that she doesn't have to give anything in return. There's where changes need to be made and friend your the only one that can do it but you got to want to. If not, then enjoy being unhappy.

She doesn't believe in seeing a MC because once she here's what he says, she's not going to like it because the truth hurts.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Just curious, what's the cultural makeup of the two of you?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I am white she is..Indian


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Wellllllllllllllllll.

If she came from a "good" family (wealthy meaning silver spoon etc), then there MAY BE a sense of entitlement that to be honest I have seen on occasion in my (not so limited ) experience with Asian women. 

There also may be repressed anger from dealing with a not as woman friendly culture as one may think - whether in perception or reality.

There may be undiscovered skeletons in a closet somewhere (maybe, just a guess)

There may be role model differences and expectations. These are all guesses you understand, projections of my own experience married to a woman to a great extent but also legit causes of their own.

Intercultural relationships are exciting but at the same time have a few things more to go wrong. I consider myself a scholar of culture yet I find things about my wife (central Asian) that surprise me to this day.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

happybuddha said:


> She said that I should have confronted the person instead of asking
> her to walk away and talk. she said that if someone is doing something
> wrong you can’t let them get away with it. *She said that I seem to
> want to take a walk away approach instead of standing up to them
> and telling them how you feel.* …


She's right.

She's telling you right here what her issue with you is. She stands up for what she believes, and expects you to do the same. When you don't, she loses respect for you. When she doesn't respect you, she's not going to sleep with you.

Read through some of Gettingit's posts. There might be some similarities there. She admits to being a bit...um...pushy, but responds very well to her husband nutting up and putting her in her place, and when he wasn't doing that, things were not so good.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I am writing here from the (mostly) unhappy standpoint of a woman in the world's longest perimenopause. I won't tell you exactly how old I am, but suffice to say that I have been doing this for a long time and am still not through it.

In this time, I have experienced depression, serious anger and resentment towards my husband, irrational self-justification, despair, hopelessness, and often a desire to just chuck it all and disappear to somewhere where I wouldn't have to see another soul. In all of this, my H had a bulls eye on his chest.

I can testify that HRT is game-changing in these situations and should not be eschewed.

This may or may not be her issue, but, in my opinion, it should be the first thing that is tested and ruled out. I was ready to walk out on my poor beleaguered husband when I started on estrogen. Within 48 hours I was feeling much more balanced and was able to see how irrational my thought processes had been.

If I were you, I would set up a time to talk to her. I would be firm and confident. I would tell her that you are unhappy with her treatment of you and that you don't see a future with things the way they are. Draw a line in the sand and insist that she seek treatment.

You are afraid that she will follow through on her threat to leave you - and this was a threat to punish you and keep you in your place - but truly I don't think you have anything to lose.

Simple, to the point, rational. You are unhappy. She is not behaving like a loving wife. You are unfairly targeted. You won't put up with it.

And, of course, wait until after the holidays.....


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You can "put her in her place" and she may put out for a while but unless you address the root cause it's not looking good. He needs to find out if: 

- she's dealing with issues specific to their relationship (nice-itis, resentment, expectations, etc) which are easier to address.

- she's acting due to cultural or religious or familial programming which is a lot harder to address. 

- she's simply not seeing happy marriage role models and assumes a default stance...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Merry Christmas...looking forward to some intimate time with myself during the hholidays. ..lol


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

happybuddha said:


> Merry Christmas...looking forward to some intimate time with myself during the hholidays. ..lol


I'm there with you buddy, but I won't give you a hand.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

happybuddha said:


> This has been very challenging...I'm also learning a lot around relationships...as..i have read books....ggotten.coaching and etc...
> 
> I do need to do what's best for me ...
> it's hard because it does hurt...i feel bad
> ...


She gets it. She has offered you her version of solutions. You just don't want to hear it. She does not want your solution, have sex. You don't want hers, separate. But it is clear as day that she does not want sex with you.

I am not trying to be mean when I say this. But it needs to be said. Man the hell up. No woman would want to f4ck your whiny ass. I am the single horniest woman on the planet, and I would not touch you. Someone already posted a link to the what I learned this year thread. Read it. The DO it. Because even if you DO get lucky this holiday, I guarantee it does not represent any kind of solution. You will be waiting six months till the next time.

Again trying a little tough love tack. Not trying to be mean. Just real.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The difficulty in seeing a solution is easy to explain. You don't even need a degree in a Rocket Science to do so.

In column one, write the outcomes on both spouses of a fulfilling life including intimacy. 

In column two, write the outcomes on both spouses of a life that is fulfilling to the LD and miserable to the non LD.

In column three, write the outcomes on both divorced spouses of a divorced life where the LD gets to keep most of the kids custody and a lot of the assets thanks to the court system, while the non LD gets to finance the LD's life style and enter the dating pool with what's left of his resources. In case of male LD the mechanics are a bit different but the resulting values are not.

Unless you studied New Math it is obvious that column one has the best outcomes for everyone involved. Yet we see case after case where columns two and three trump column one.

Now multiply each column outcome with the chance of it happening... That's the picture.

To cut short my Christmas Day lecture, it is difficult because the best outcome should be a no brainer to choose unless there's hidden issues which of course tend to stay hidden.


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

Pay attention to #3
Sometimes you have to be soft and sometimes HARD.
NOW is the time to be hard with her and demand what you want. Take charge.

The Bubishi

-The mind is one with heaven and earth
-The circulatory rhythm of the body is similar to the cycle of the sun and the moon
-The way of inhaling and exhaling is both hardness and softness
-Act in accordance with time and change
-Techniques will occur in the absence of conscious thought
-The feet must advance and retreat, separate and meet
-The eyes do not miss even the slightest change
-The ears listen well in all directions


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I really feel for yah brother.

This is not a loving adult wifee. This is a girl with issues that she needs to address.

She is starving you sexually, and she knows this. Talk and talk and talks her way out of being a loving wifee to you and your main need, which is physical, and sexual. That is your main love language.

I say, if she doesn't take care of your main need, which is cruel, start treating her as a room mate and friend. That means talk to her, but no cuddling, don't touch her, and no initiating sex anymore. If you have to get it out of your system, then get it out of your system, releave yourself then.

Go out more, do things for yourself, hobbies, friends, etc.

All I can think of, is she having an affair? Could be physical or emotional.

Did she marry you only to get married? Not mainly for sex?

She has some serious issues and please don't let anyone say you should read more books or go to marriage counseling. Your wifee is the one that needs to do all that and not you.

When or if she woman's up, she will address what is wrong with her, emotional or physical and let you know and get it dealt with. If she doesn't, then just start doing things for yourself and treat her like a room mate and stop being a hubby. See how long it takes before she starts complaining? Then tell her there is very little to almost no sex is our marriage and your starving and killing me!!!

Get divorce papers ready. See how she will react. If she gets upset and really talks to you, that's the kick in the butt she needed but if she doesn't get upset, she is probably gone already.

Too bad there isn't a way to predetermine if a lady is LD or not......

Wish you the best.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> She gets it. She has offered you her version of solutions. You just don't want to hear it. She does not want your solution, have sex. You don't want hers, separate. But it is clear as day that she does not want sex with you.
> 
> I am not trying to be mean when I say this. But it needs to be said. Man the hell up. No woman would want to f4ck your whiny ass. I am the single horniest woman on the planet, and I would not touch you. Someone already posted a link to the what I learned this year thread. Read it. The DO it. Because even if you DO get lucky this holiday, I guarantee it does not represent any kind of solution. You will be waiting six months till the next time.
> 
> Again trying a little tough love tack. Not trying to be mean. Just real.


Well said. A punch between the eyes...a wakeup call...he needs.

Got to man up. Be a man, in ALL things, and you will have women attracted to you and wanting to jump your bones. Be whiny doormat, and very few will do so. 

Again I ask (haven't seen the answer here) have you read MMSL? If you haven't, you need to. And then APPLY it. I personally have gone through it (haven't fully read it or digested it as the principles seem very much along the line of the way I already conduct myself), but from what I've seen, it is solid advice. 

Another read to try is David DeAngelo's stuff. He focuses more on dating (not pick up artist crap, but rather ATTRACTION and dating). It will open your eyes. It will help you understand what women REALLY want in a guy, even if they profess differently, and even when they themselves often don't know and are confused. (And if you think women don't get "confused" about what they themselves want, ask yourself...how many women have you heard say "I always wind up with the jerks! I don't understand it....why?" So yes, why? Because they're attracted to them. And either haven't lucked upon a GOOD guy who also has some of those same traits they're attracted to, OR haven't figured out how to weed out the "nice guys" and "bad boys" from their potential mating pool. This "weeding out" are exactly what "fitness tests" are ALL ABOUT.) 

Attraction is a PRIMAL INSTINCT. We were programmed long ago as to what makes others attractive to us. It was (and the "programming" remains) simply for women to find someone who is the most desirable mate to father their offspring. Survival instinct. They want the "big bull", the "big buck", the person with the most desirable traits and genes to pass to their offspring, and a person that can PROTECT them, take care of them, and support them. And when you act like a whiny little boy who does not stand up for himself, it sends ALARM bells off in a woman's head that you are likely NOT able to take care of them, or protect them, in a very basic and primal way, and are not suitable "material" to father their offspring. If you are not "suitable material" to pass to her offspring, she is NOT going to want to have sex with you, even if making babies is the furthest thing from her conscious mind.

Women are also very leery of "nice guys", instinctually. The "nice guys" take crap. Become resentful. Become jealous. May sometimes cheat the first time ANY woman who gives him the time of day and spreads her legs for him. Because he feels he is "lucky" to have this opportunity, and better not "pass it up". Jealous because he FEARS that he does not measure up to her, and the first guy "who does", will be able to take her away from him. Resentful because he's not getting what he wants, and as such is not happy. Who wants to be with someone that harbors resentment towards them? No woman I know...

This is where the "chit tests" and "fitness tests" come in. You're being tested to see if YOU ARE THAT GUY. And you're failing. Miserably. And now you expect to continue the behavior, or up it a few notches by being even "nicer", and you think that's gonna get you laid?

It's not a game. It's not a scam. You cannot pretend to be something you're not. What these things will do for you is to show you how to be confident in what you really are, how to stand up for yourself, and why a man who does not do those things will always have problems attracting women.

She's your wife. You attracted her once. She WAS into you at some point. You just need to get it back. And give her the feelings she once had for you back to her. Manning up can be one of the best GIFTS you can ever give to a woman who is / or wants to be in a relationship with you. EVERY woman dreams of the guy that will make her panties wet. Doormats don't do that. "Nice guys" who let women walk all over them don't do that.

It is not "one way or the other". You don't have to be a "bad boy" or a jerk. You don't have to be a "nice guy" or a doormat. There IS middle ground. A "sweet spot". That sweet spot is typically a guy with good "nice guy" type qualities (solid family type guy, thoughtful, sensitive, etc), but one who also KNOWS WHAT HE BRINGS TO THE TABLE for ANY WOMAN, expects to be treated as such a guy, expects to be desired as such a guy, knows he is a "catch", and will not tolerate being treated as less than that. By "not tolerating it", that does not mean you need to be some kind of d!ck to women...not by any stretch of the imagination. BUT, you don't let them be d!cks to you either. You need confidence, need the guts to "walk away" from a woman who treats you badly, and be able to do it because you KNOW YOU DESERVE BETTER. 

You've got a lot of work to do before you'll get laid on a consistent basis by ANY WOMAN, let alone your wife with whom things have gone STALE over time. You should start reading and get to it...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I have realized over this past weekend that I have been too nice and supportive to my wife and daughter . My daughter loves me and wants to be around me all the time.* My wife told me this past week that she appreciates all that I do. ..

All the niceness has worked much for others and by me being nice it has now caused them to expect all of this from me.....and yet even though I am a great husband and father it doesn't entitle me anything when it comes to sex..and attraction.

I read the superior man...and I read no more Mr nice guy. And I am going to read it again...

I must say I feel a bit of anger around my needs being ignored even after lots of conversations ...

I almost feel like going some where along for 3 to 4 days on my own. .and I am wondering what to do with myself...

I don't take myself as a whiny weak man. I actually am a leader of leaders with work and accomplishing things in life. There have been years where I have made over 500k...and I have achieved more than most people ...

I work out and have raised my sex attraction level a bunch..and worked on many parts of my life. .when I spoke with coach. .they said even if you were Brad Pitt...it wouldn't matter based on where my wife is ...

There must be a better way of influencing my wife to figure things out on her own...perhaps I do have to spend less time with her and take care of much less of her needs ....

At this point even if I initiate she reacts to me wanting to have sex..I'm a weird way where now I even feel ashamed at the fact that I want it.

I started looking at meditation books. I also have started looking at my needs as well..is it shallow to want sex ...or have my secular needs me...

Is the real answer to a strong relationship and love ..ultimatums..threats and divorce papers ..surely there are some smart options ....

I know I must sound like an idiot on here. I guess it's a way to get my feelings out. Seems like I need to really study a lot and read all these books over and over and over..

It highly sucks to work hard all week and go back to work on Monday unfulfilled by your wife and it definitely affects me being inspired ....


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

happybuddha said:


> I have realized over this past weekend that I have been too nice and supportive to my wife and daughter . My daughter loves me and wants to be around me all the time.* My wife told me this past week that she appreciates all that I do. ..
> 
> All the niceness has worked much for others and by me being nice it has now caused them to expect all of this from me.....and yet even though I am a great husband and father it doesn't entitle me anything when it comes to sex..and attraction.
> 
> ...



I say go for it. Take your 4 days. Don't tell her, just go. Go diving in Kona with the mantas or go skiing in Colorado. Or golfing in Palm Springs. Whatever, do your thing.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HB-

my situation is only slightly better than yours so I should not pretend like I have all of the answers.

But I think the first step has to be that you start respecting yourself more. If you know you are doing too much, dial it back.

Do you feel as though you are being taken advantage of? Stop doing things until that feeling goes away.

If you are in situations where you feel like your presence is not welcome, only tolerated, then remove yourself from those situations.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Anon...
was your situation worse aand it improved?
It's definitely hard to deal...with


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

You do a LOT of talking with your wife about _how we never have sex_. Earth to happybuddha: she already knows that, it doesn't get her panties wet. This is a totally passive and whiny approach that actually turns her (and most women) off. You simply cannot logic or nice your way into bed. That.Does.Not.Work.

Your thread title says HornyAsHell, so is that really true? Then prove it! Approach her this way: at breakfast, announce to her that 9pm that night you expect her in bed, naked, and ready for a good f^ck!ng. Do NOT follow that up with any sort of explanation, just leave for work. Later in the day, text her "is it 9 yet"

Just try this and let us know how she responds.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

tommyr said:


> You do a LOT of talking with your wife about _how we never have sex_. Earth to happybuddha: she already knows that, it doesn't get her panties wet. This is a totally passive and whiny approach that actually turns her (and most women) off. You simply cannot logic or nice your way into bed. That.Does.Not.Work.
> 
> Your thread title says HornyAsHell, so is that really true? Then prove it! Approach her this way: at breakfast, announce to her that 9pm that night you expect her in bed, naked, and ready for a good f^ck!ng. Do NOT follow that up with any sort of explanation, just leave for work. Later in the day, text her "is it 9 yet"
> 
> Just try this and let us know how she responds.


Maybe I should try this... unfortunately, I work from home...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Maybe I should try this... unfortunately, I work from home...



If she's a feisty type she will waste a day fighting about it. If not she will ignore it.

I wonder when the esteemed audience will pick up on the fact that such people derive more pleasure and satisfaction from the control aspect of withholding rather than from the act itself.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

john117 said:


> If she's a feisty type she will waste a day fighting about it. If not she will ignore it.
> 
> I wonder when the esteemed audience will pick up on the fact that such people derive more pleasure and satisfaction from the control aspect of withholding rather than from the act itself.


my wife would just think I'm a nasty, obnoxious idiot and she wouldn't speak to me for weeks...


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

So you guys have actually TRIED this approach or are you postulating?

Why do you continue being "nice guys" to a controlling/withholding wife?

If you really insist on staying legally married to a sexless wife, then you should have (long ago) congratulated her on roommate status and informed her you'll be pretty busy over the holidays having sex with your girlfriend. 

But instead you come here and offer nothing but gloom and doom comments to every poster. Why do that?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

No, I haven't tried it on my wife, because I know it wouldn't work... I'm not offering "gloom and doom"... just being realistic...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I am not sure this would work. One time I texted my wife in the am that she looks sexy... later that night she said she didnt understand why I am always thinking about sex, and why people are always thinking about ... 

That is from texting her that she is sexy... I didnt even say that I want to have sex with her or I am thinking about her ...

I am re-reading No more mr nice guy and married man sex primer again .. again I am not sure any of this stuff even works on someone who has a medical imbalance ...

I am a bit convinced that something is off, she wants me to go to the gym, I am looking great according to her except she doesnt want to have sex with me ...

When I initiated the other night - she said I guess your just thinking about having sex with me - who the hell wants to have sex with someone who doesnt really have an interest in having sex.

Many times she will offer a handjob as an option to me if she doesnt want sex - where she gives me a massage - however most of the time she just doesnt always share with me why except perhaps she doesnt want to have sex but she will make me feel good.

I do enjoy the handjob - however part of me wants her so bad. So my question is do I turn do the HJ and say no I only want her and not a HJ..

Perhaps the bigger question is why we have had sex one time in the last 5 months yet - I dont want to bring it up again ,

I just want to see her VITALITY come back and her vigor to want sex... 

I am going to bury my head back in the books that I mentioned however while I am working on me and myself - if she isnt working on herself then how can she partner with me in sex if I am the only one who wants it ..

I know she probably is thinking about it - because she mentioned lately that we need to find an overnight babysitter so we can spend some time by ourselves.... or away for a few days ..

I think part of me mentally is saying inside - why try to plan anything anymore or do anything nice - because I am not getting my needs met so what is the point of doing anything nice, being nice, planning anything at all - because even after all of the planning and work on my part - it doesnt go anywhere..

Now I am obsessing over this because of 150 days goes by and I have sex one time and get a few hand jobs - should i be ok with that and as a Guy am i being insensitive to where she is right now ---

am i just thinking about me too much - even thought I have done so many things to make things easier ...

Perhaps someone who has changed their relationship for the positive can share with me some of the activities that they have done.. with me to illustrate how it impacted them and their sex life in a passionate way ..

I dont want to argue, get crazy, write up divorce papers and do a bunch of things that cause pain, perhaps I can be a bit more strong through my focus and choices to what I do - shows strength and perhaps sheds some light for her to realize things without being mean, negative or crazy ...

Like if I do yoga every morning, take a mediatation class, workout every day - perhaps she might say - Gosh he has so much energy 
and I feel so tired maybe I should get checked at the doctor.

Perhaps I need to have her build a friendship with some women that are living the life I want her to live. for example some educated women that have sex with their husbands a few times a week and have her bond with people that can influence her reality in an indirect way to wake up to what marriage is ..

I think if I point a laser at her and try ultimatums it doesnt work but where could I find a social group of healthy married couples that do fun things and could influence her/ befriend her and perhaps share some healthy insights to what a husband / wife relationship can look like ....

Any ideas on that one ?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You're getting the idea.

MMSL or NMMNG work to the extent that the LD spouse is only a bit off the desired frequency from the non LD spouse. They're more of a tool to give the LD spouse a "nudge" towards meeting the other spouse's needs.

You (and I and many others here) need a sledgehammer. 

There are two general categories of LD's in my view. One is the "stupid" LD's who are in their comfort zone with a low frequency and are simply clueless to actually consider their spouse's needs. Those can be helped quite nicely with a "nudge".

The other is the "evil" category of LD's who are well aware of what they're doing and why. Whether as a power struggle, control strategy, childhood issues, or any other reason, they know what they're doing and they're all too eager to keep doing it. The DIY books are not quite as useful here.

One can also have a mix of the two, some E and some S. It is safe to assume that once in five months is well past the S realm.

If she has no friends that can with about talk such things it may work, but my gut feel says if she's not interested in talking about sex anymore than she's interested in having sex...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

So what suggestions...are there ?

I'm talking more about just surrounding ourselves..with healthy couples....? Or healthy women...with energy...not nnecessarily talking about sex....


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Surrounding yourself with "healthy couples" isn't going to improve your intimacy life any more than surrounding a C student with A students will help the A student academically... Even if the A students are willing to help the C student needs to do the bulk of the work.

The DIY books are useful in some sense especially self improvement but up to a point. 

At the level of LD you're talking about you need to look deeper for answers. It's not quite as simple as clothes from Nordstrom and Body by Gold's Gym unless you plan to expand the gene pool...


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

The passivity and martyrdom in this thread is actually starting to turn ME off. Think I need a looong break from TAM now. Bye.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

The most challenging thing in this all is having a POSITIVE attitude. Its gets really hard to be positive when you feel so ignored at times.

If I had sex as much as my wife did laundry we would have sex 4 times per week and I would not be on here. I am wondering if she just likes to distract herself with all the little things with her time.

She is obsessive compulsive about being clean, work, and everything else she does. What I dont understand is how she must perceive our relationship and the fact that we have no sex and she has no libido...at all for me or anyone else ...

I dont get it - I just dont understand what is happening 
I pray to God that I find a solution,... and during all of this 
how do you even stay positive to initiate when you get so 
much rejection or weird reactions ...?

I heard from someone that I should keep initiating over and over to get her back in the groove of having sex or I was told even to the point that it is annoying for her to do something about it from her being annoyed ...

perhaps I am keeping many of my feelings inside because of her reactions and lack of wanting to have sex- so perhaps I should really let it all hang out - let her see all my emotions around sex and be more forward and sexual in more ways so it doesnt look like a disconnected action towards her but something I express all of the time


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The positive attitude comes from ignoring your wife. Not via a cheerful, I'm going for a bike ride 180, but a lot more.

You also don't know why she's doing it. Have you done the obligatory fishing expedition into her past? How is her parents' emotional life? 

First find out if she knows what she's doing. Then why she's doing it. Then you can decide if it's worth fixing.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't think anything has a chance of changing until you dump her. And you can't bluff. You have to really be done and want out and be unwilling to take her back.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Here is my account of tonights experience : over 2 hours time ending in her 
going to sleep. In my interpretation many times I initiate my wife goes into 
a bunch of conversations that distract us from being together and then she 
brings up a bunch of issues right before she falls asleep.

This seems like a mechanism in her subconcious that wants to avoid being 
together sexually or intimately and if she feel me coming on sexually this 
pattern happens where she identifies things that confuse her mind and 
create seperation in the sexual or intimate way - exhaust her and cause her
to go asleep either after she gets reactive, starts some conversation that is 
a turn off or gets in some kind of a disagreement. This pattern repeats 
many times resulting in her going to sleep 

Here is what happened : 

I suggested we go lay down on bed and relax lit some candles and my wife lit another candle..

Initiated with wife in bed by rubbing her back. 
she started complaining that my hands were cold on her back and 
got into a discussion of how I should have realized they were freezing 
before i placed them on her back and explained that I did not intentionally 
do this to make her cold .. Got in argument around me knowing that my hands were cold and why did I touch her 

Went in Circles with how am I supposed to know and I should have just said sorry 

She then asks me if we think we really know each other. She suggested that I need someone needly and clingy that desires me and my attention all of the time.

She suggested that she knows how she is and that she sees the fact that I respond to daughter wanting and clinging to me.

She suggested that she is straight forward and I like to go in circles with 
my conversations with everything ( not 100% true ) 

She then decided to go to sleep . What do I do if she feels like me 
touching her is freezing .. My hands werent even freezing and her
conversations take me to being wound up all fired up to get busy 
with her to again end in her going to sleep on me and distracting 
the mood with a bunch of conversations that she is throwing out 
there to spin the situation from being together to pondering life 
and who we are at in bed ..


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

I've come to this thread late so please excuse my comment if it has already been tried.

Replying to your latest comment, why didn't you just start kissing your wife maybe on her back. Then as you are asking if that felt warmer start taking off your clothes then hers. You were already half way there by that I mean you were in bed rubbing her back. I like the direct approach but that's just me.

.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HB- don't argue with her about your hands being cold. That is not the issue. You've already identified the fact that she will just say or do anything to change the subject from sex and shoot you down.

Next time she does something like that, just get up and walk out of the room. Don't say anything, just show her with your actions that she doesn't get the benefit of your company if she is intent on being a frigid shrew.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> HB- don't argue with her about your hands being cold. That is not the issue. You've already identified the fact that she will just say or do anything to change the subject from sex and shoot you down.
> 
> Next time she does something like that, just get up and walk out of the room. Don't say anything, just show her with your actions that she doesn't get the benefit of your company if she is intent on being a frigid shrew.



:iagree: This. She's pushing your buttons. Take away her power.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> HB- don't argue with her about your hands being cold. That is not the issue. You've already identified the fact that she will just say or do anything to change the subject from sex and shoot you down.
> 
> Next time she does something like that, just get up and walk out of the room. Don't say anything, just show her with your actions that she doesn't get the benefit of your company if she is intent on being a frigid shrew.


:iagree: YES, one time my wife made some comment along the lines (although not quite this crude) of "all you want is to blow your load" in the middle of the act. There was a back and forth or two with me saying that wasn't true, "do you believe me?", "no". I pulled out and left the room. Got her attention, she was quite upset.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

HB, do you read the replies to your threads? You seem intent on doing the same things yet expecting different results. Why is that?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Yes... I read the replies....I will try that.
that's good advice... ..when I seee...the ccomments coming....perhaps....I should...exit. ...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If you are married to a sexless fraud, one excuse is as good as any other. For those who are motivated to have sex, almost nothing is an obstacle. For those who wish to avoid sex, everything is. There are a million excuses but the real message behind all of them is "I just don't want to have sex with you."


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

To be a happy buddha, one must practice balance... a very hard thing to do. You seem to be very good at practicing the "soft" aspect of love. You need the Hard aspect too in order to keep balance. I suggest you totally go off on her letting her know her behavior towards you is unacceptable. You NEED intimacy and sex. period. Like she needs things to be in order and clean... you need affection and sex. DEMAND it. If she wont give you what you need in order to keep the relationship and YOU in balance, then she is not for you. Let her know in very clear terms that you will stop doing the things she needs and your relationship will fall apart...

Its called balance. Yin Yang... and all that crap. 
You cannot be a happybuddha if not in balance.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> If you are married to a sexless fraud, one excuse is as good as any other. For those who are motivated to have sex, almost nothing is an obstacle. For those who wish to avoid sex, everything is. There are a million excuses but the real message behind all of them is "I just don't want to have sex with you."


:iagree:to the nth degree. If one wants sex, one finds the time and place (realizing that with kids around, it can be difficult at times). Wife's friend is super HD, and they have a grade-school age child, and they're always getting it on (in the car, in the closet, etc). Nothing gets in their way. My wife, on the other hand, is constantly complaining about her ailments, etc., and stating that it's hard with kids around, that she needs a few drinks to loosen up (but she won't drink as she's worried she won't be able to handle the kids if they wake up), etc etc etc. 
Also has been known to state that sex is too much work (although hasn't used this line in a while). I just don't bother, because any sex we have will be duty sex and she'll try to get me to finish ASAP so that she can go play on her computer. 

Point is if it's important to her, she'll make herself available. All of the extraneous things that your wife brings up are just diversions - she's blaming you for everything as a way to tell you that she's just not interested.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> If you are married to a sexless fraud, one excuse is as good as any other. For those who are motivated to have sex, almost nothing is an obstacle. For those who wish to avoid sex, everything is. There are a million excuses but the real message behind all of them is "I just don't want to have sex with you."



Stressed over... Moths? Mice? At least I get the creative ones


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> She then asks me if we think we really know each other. She suggested that I need someone needly and clingy that desires me and my attention all of the time.
> 
> ..


OMG

She pretty much just told you she has lost all attraction for you. 

If you want to save your marriage, you better be willing to lose it because she is already checked out.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

ButtPunch said:


> OMG
> 
> She pretty much just told you she has lost all attraction for you.
> 
> If you want to save your marriage, you better be willing to lose it because she is already checked out.


:iagree: 

You're needy. You're clingy. And she isn't attracted to you.

I'm not sure why John117 hasn't directed you to BostonBruins32 thread, but I recommend you go have a look. You guys would appear to share some traits. It is a long one BTW, so prepare yourself.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/159337-ld-women-please-chime.html

It seems BB went through the whole MMSLP process to get where he was and was able to figure out his own issues contributing to their problems. He hasn't posted in a while, so there hasn't been any real update in a month or so. 

And I think his W may have found the thread and realized that he was about to pull the plug on the marriage.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

John didn't think enough similarities existed... The OP in this thread is talking about months and months, with unclear expectations and avoidance strategies. In BB's case his wife's expectations were far more clear and she may have had an Aha! moment eventually. When you start looking at 5 months interval and a partner determined to not put out the DIY books are about as useful as a General Physics 102 textbook in troubleshooting a nuclear reactor. A few useful facts at best.

Actions speak far louder than books. If she realized it was time to put out or bow out, that would do it...


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

happybuddha said:


> The most challenging thing in this all is having a POSITIVE attitude. Its gets really hard to be positive when you feel so ignored at times.
> 
> If I had sex as much as my wife did laundry we would have sex 4 times per week and I would not be on here. I am wondering if she just likes to distract herself with all the little things with her time.
> 
> ...


I would STOP initiating sex with her at all, and STOP accepting pity sex!! No pity sex period! When you accept that, you are lowering your status in her eyes. Women think it is creepy (and it is) for a guy to lower himself to such point that they will climb on someone who does not want them, and have sex with them! 

The occasional hj or bj if she "isn't in the mood" or doesn't feel good at the moment, and a "if I do this (hj, bj, sex) will you stop annoying me" are two different things. If she gladly offers the alternative as an act of love and wanting to do for you, you're good to go. If it is just to get you off her back, it is pity sex, and is to be avoided at all times. 

She likely COULD enjoy sex, and may even orgasm, but she's not enjoying it with you at the moment. Just having sex will likely not trigger her to want to have more. You need to work on her BRAIN for that to happen, and until you take STEP ONE of refusing pity sex, or bugging her for it, you're only digging the hole you're in deeper. 

Stop it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

So stop initiating ?
I guess it would be a good experiment not to initiate and see what happens...

Maybe I should go into hiding and just stay away from her.
Join some clubs or classes to keep me busy ...

What really sucks is I dont believe she thinks anything is 
really wrong around me not getting my needs met....

What sucks even more is I am expected to do lots of things 
and support and do a bunch of things for her yet .. I am 
suppose to have no expectations ...

Crazy stuff to deal with ..


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

If...I focus on the insights that she doesn't want to have sex..with..me..tthen. ...I would take it...personally... my wife has no interest in..anyone else ..she would rather sleep...then have sex......

She has told me she feels tired. ..lately..she's been contemplating where you go when you die.....and the meaning..of life ....


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Here's what you do. Open your mouth and express your displeasure with her, her lack of love and lack of any sexual interest and let her know that she either gets the rag out of her ass and starts acting like a normal living breathing human being or your going to bring changes in her life that she isn't going to like and say it in a way that she knows you've had it. 

Now it comes down to this, she either needs to visit her doctor and find out why her sex drive is so low or face the facts that your not who she wants to be with and cut her ass loose, then find someone else who is more compatible with you because she isn't.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

happybuddha said:


> If...I focus on the insights that she doesn't want to have sex..with..me..tthen. ...I would take it...personally... my wife has no interest in..anyone else ..she would rather sleep...then have sex......


So I don't know how to say this. I am not trying to be mean. But you should take it personally. She does not want sex with YOU because you do a lot of things that kill her desire. But guess what? If YOU have this much influence on the problem then YOU can have that much influence on the solution.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I do appreciate the advice...i...am getting pretty worked up...over..this......

I am looking for something to satisfy...me being peaceful..and letting go of this negative energy....

I am convinced aafter last night she is actually a bit crazy. .not by her own choice...iI don't believe she is fully aware of what is normal....


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

happybuddha said:


> I do appreciate the advice...i...am getting pretty worked up...over..this......
> 
> I am looking for something to satisfy...me being peaceful..and letting go of this negative energy....
> 
> I am convinced aafter last night she is actually a bit crazy. .not by her own choice...iI don't believe she is fully aware of what is normal....


Dude, yeah...she's got some issues. But you really need to get a grip on what you're doing yourself to contribute to this! Try, for a while, to STOP BLAMING HER, and look at yourself. YOU are the only one who can trigger her desire for YOU. And THAT is what NEEDS TO HAPPEN if she is going to willingly and wantingly have sex with you!

Now, don't take the above the wrong way. I've been through the ringer quite a few times in my younger years with women who pulled the old "bait and switch", or who were LD, etc., along with all of the accompanying frustrations, resentment, loneliness, self doubt, and anger. The only difference between then and now, is HOW I THINK ABOUT MYSELF (CONFIDENCE) AND HOW I TREAT MYSELF AND EXPECT OTHERS TO TREAT ME! That is it! I'm not especially handsome. But I stay in decent shape. I have activities I do outside the house on my own. I have a good job. I own a home. I'm not a drunk, or drug user. I'm reasonably well educated, and reasonably well spoken. It took me a while to realize I WAS A CATCH! Once I did, I decided I was no longer going to tolerate women treating me like crap. And what do you know...once I quit allowing it, IT STOPPED. 

Want to play games and withhold sex? You're down the road. Want to act like sex is more important to me than it is to you? Again, adios. Want to play head games and continually "chit test" me? Don't do it too much, or you'll be kickin' rocks. If you treat me wrong, I won't back down. If you act like a psycho, I will leave walk out on you. You want a second chance? Prove it by not acting like that again.

I wasted too much time with a bad and mean spirited, low self esteem woman because I HAD LOW SELF ESTEEM. I did just as you're doing. I would take her crap, and then try to make her see she should love me more and treat me better because I WAS A NICE GUY! I was also AFRAID that if I stood up to her, that she would leave me. Why that worried me when sex was a once every 2 or 3 month affair, and she drove me crazy with resentment and anger, I had no idea...but it did. And it was not healthy for anyone involved...ESPECIALLY ME!

Never again. I will be treated right. I will have someone in my life who desires me, wants to please me, wants to be happy with me, and spend time with me. And if that doesn't happen, I will go looking for someone that does want to do those things.

For someone that does do those things, they get all of those things and more in return. But I will never again do any of that for someone who won't do the same for me.

Funny how that "life change" has made my every day life so happy and content with a woman who can't wait to see me when I come in the door every day, loves to treat me well, and believes I'm a good man. And who not so coincidentally loves to screw my brains out nearly any time I'm in the mood to do so (and often when I'm not but she is).

I did not get here with this one by failing the chit tests she did throw at me in the beginning, or by just "accepting it" when she occasionally does so now (or just decides she's going to go "marriage mode" on me and treat me like a pain in the azz husband). I won't live like that again, in a relationship like that, and if it comes to that, I WILL LEAVE. And I will find someone I can be happy with. And I believe she believes that. She'd better...because it's true. I deserve as much, and won't settle for less.

Start believing and thinking that way, and you're on your way to having a happier WIFE and life. Most women don't want doormats, and will never be happy with one. Make a woman happy...stand up for yourself if she treats you like crap. They may protest. They may get mad. They may threaten in order to get their way. But IF you ARE a good catch, and stand up for yourself, they WILL respect you, treat you well, and want to screw you!

P.S. "Standing up for yourself does not mean you need to yell, get overly angry, threaten, etc. It does mean you will NOT kiss her azz if she treats you badly. It does mean you will let her know in a calm clear manner that what she's doing makes you unhappy. It does mean not rewarding bad behavior with increasing attempts to "buy" her affection through gifts, favors, etc., when she clearly does not deserve them. It does mean that you are ALWAYS looking good, presenting yourself as a "catch", and will start pulling back from her if she makes you continually unhappy by acting poorly. A man who "stands up for himself" in a calm, thoughtful manner is attractive. A man who stands up for himself by yelling, screaming, bluffs, anger, etc., is even more unattractive than a dude who won't stand up for himself at all.

Gifts, flowers, backrubs, footrubs, love letters, helping with house chores, the pleasure of having sex with you are to be reserved for women who treat you equally well...not the ones who don't.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

donny64-- your post is one of the best I've seen on this site. Very inspiring.

One question I have is what is your take on turning around a relationship that has become unbalanced?

I get that your default strategy is leave, which is obviously the most effective reaction.

But have you ever actually corrected course in a relationship that has gone to sh-t?

I get the feeling that once a woman develops a certain impression of you, it is virtually impossible to reverse that. But curious if you have had different experience.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's about as easy as convincing your employer that you're a good employee after all despite a bad performance review or two by a spiteful first line manager.

Near Impossible if it's home long enough.

Changing course in a marriage means one of two or more things: 

- change due to fear from threat of leaving
- fear of the unknown single life
- seeing the light and admitting wrong

The desired outcome of everyone's favorite methods is #1 or #2 which may lead to #3 in some cases. But unless#3 occurs it's hopeless to expect improvement.

I know it sounds pessimistic but human nature is not easily changed. In hard core cases the LD spouse simply places the nuclear option as preferable to having sex so it's like trying to talk to someone out of jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge while they have already jumped. 

As accident analysis teaches us, it takes TWO or more things to go bad before a real bad accident happens. The fellow TAM posters who come here with milder cases and generally get them resolved usually have ONE thing going bad and can generally turn it around. The more hardened cases have more than one issue going bad at the same time and those generally are far FAR harder to address, and preferably with outside help only.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

yes. That sounds accurate...my wife has sseveral issues going on combined. She has hormone issues from being 47..this is also effecting her low energy. ..coupled with losing both of her parents a few years ago..and being new to being a Mom..


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

HB

Don't you see that all those nice things you are doing aren't for her. They are you trying to manipulate her into having sex with you. You are trying to control her. It's called codependency. You do all these nice things in the hope of getting what you want and when it doesn't happen you fill up full of resentment and grab the victim chair. It's dysfunctional. The healthy strategy to deal with your situation is to follow Donny's advice.

Best Wishes and Happy New Year
BP


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

ButtPunch said:


> HB
> 
> Don't you see that all those nice things you are doing aren't for her. They are you trying to manipulate her into having sex with you. You are trying to control her. It's called codependency. You do all these nice things in the hope of getting what you want and when it doesn't happen you fill up full of resentment and grab the victim chair. It's dysfunctional. The healthy strategy to deal with your situation is to follow Donny's advice.
> 
> ...


I do see. I will take the advice. Happy New years !
Here is to 2015 much better ...

Appreciate the insights .. Lots to do - or maybe lots to unlearn..


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

NewYears....2015....

Wow...lots to be....and change


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

View attachment 31578


A picture is worth 1024 words so...

Think of it as taking a knee on your marriage.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Well Happy 2015 

I find myself now reviewing all of these suggestions for 
making changes in 2015..I must say that so much of this 
is hard at times.

Every morning I wake up my wife lays in bed as my daughter 
comes in and we hand out together. My wife seems lost in 
sleep or perhaps its depression.

I lay there - give my wife hugs and cuddle with her but 
she is not responsive. Every day seems the same. Every day 
as my wife lays there I get up and get ready and she is 
the last one up. I make my daughter breakfast and get my 
daughter ready until my wife gets up.

She seems depressed. Its new years day - both me and my daughter
say happy new year. she lays there almost exhausted to no 
way to describe .

When I get up in the morning - I seem bored. Every day I get 
up I make my own breakfast and most of the time breakfast for
my daughter. When my daughter goes to school sometimes my wife
will make her breakfast if I leave early 

Now its 2015 - another year. I have to make lots of decisions.
I have to think about what is best for me . I feel bored watching 
my wife sleep for several reasons:

1) I am not tired - for me 7 hours of sleep is enough 
2) If I sit and lay in bed with my wife its almost like I am laying there by myself 
3) I need to do whats best for me and be productive - perhaps if I get up 
early every day and leave to go to work it will force my wife to wake 
up and realize that she needs to get in gear… Me trying to help her with 
doing things in the morning really doesn’t even matter - we don’t have sex
and me helping in the morning doesn’t earn me any brownie points.
Perhaps my wife feeling stressed would be a good wake up call that she 
needs to get going

4) I feel that when I help her out - it doesn’t really help her. If I do all 
the things for her to relieve her time and help her out its not appreciated 
any way and it furlongs her going to the doctor to see what is the issue

I have to do what is going to make me feel best as a “REAL CATCH” a confident 
man for the goals that I have . I need to get focused on what I am passionate 
about vs. waiting around - laying around hoping that me caring is going to change
anything with her .. By me being around more it doesn’t seem to help because 
then its a way for her to sleep more. However the sleep never gets her any rest 
or is enough because of her issues ( Could be Hormonal or Adrenal) It doesn’t 
really matter if she goes to bet at 830 PM and sleeps through 830 PM it never 
helps her feel better or appreciate me .

I want to shift my focus for 2015 on a few things.

1) Waking up early - Leaving to go to Gym or Yoga at 6 am - 
2) Joining some meditation or yoga group to associate with positive people 
3) Focusing on my Work - Excelling with results for my business 
4) Focusing on hobbies that I enjoy - dance class, art, writing 
5) Making resolution to only show POSITIVE ENERGY to wife and daughter 
6) Shredding my body through extra focus on diet in 2015 ( I am in great shape) 
7) Working more on things that raise my value this year 
- Hair Removal / Back and Body - Laser my man parts :lol 
- Organizing My Life More 
- Getting Rid of clothes that dont inspire me 
- Working on My Sex Appeal - Showing Up Every Day like a ROCKSTAR 
- Go to Naturopath Doctor myself for vitamins and blood tests ( 
( I figure perhaps I should lead by example - I am healthy but why not do it anyways just to be safe and also be an example to my wife that I am going to watch my own health vs hers. Maybe she will feel left out and go as well .
- Vitamins 
8) Get more rest 
9) When my wife makes crazy comments or negative ones - get out of her space 
10)Plan fun vacations for me and if she wants to play - great , if not have fun on own 
11) Don’t look for her approval with things I want to get for myself - Just get them 
12) Try and spend less time around her at work, if she is working give her space
and get space on my own…
13) Work on things that advance where I am in life with career as a priority 
14) Schedule massage if I am getting no sex per week - schedule a massage or acupuncture for me as a way to satisfy my physical needs .
15) Schedule one time a month away where babysitter watches daughter overnight

I have lots of stuff to work on time to DIG into how I can be better 
for 2015 ! :


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Solid list, HB. Now execute!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

You got it! Time to do it. Best wishes.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Today my wife..seems to want tto identify problems... she is talking to me and then she starts ...every time we speak we never are understanding...each other...she's asking my opinion..on something...i talk and express idea...and yet..I feel..as its just..another test...iI also sense her being in an emotional. State ..it seems like she looks for problems...i decide to answer it...and just walk away..I can feel her energy...being low and emotional....

this negative energy..is not good for me to be around.....she gets soo..extreme...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Can you provide an example or two?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Example: we are having a discussion about someone about whether she should do choice a..or choice b...when i explain my answer....instead of seeking to understand. .if sh ddoesn't get it in 1 minute of listening ..she might say...every single time we speak we ddon't get each other ...we seem to be unable...to ccommunicate. ..so she gets ffrustrated. .almost as if she can't..breathe..and try aand understand...iit comes from her perspective...that I am intentionally..trying to confuse her or mess with her...she has some weird perception..that I am trying to speak in circles...to make her feel stupid......the other thing is that one Iincident out of that one conversation...becomes ALL....the conversations we have...so she ggive it massive..impact on our communication..


it's like Iif your child listens..98% of the time..and that one time your child doesn't..listen you yell. .and say You NEVER..ever listen...

everything..creates more drama...if you..talk Iin sarcasm...she has very short patience level..and she gets..angry...if she has to wait..or try and listen...vs. getting the answer quickly....


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I'm going to guess that whenever you indulge her in these types of conversations, they always go downhill. You end up not solving anything, only increasing her anxiety.

If my assumption is correct, consider the idea that the mere act of your even engaging in these types of conversations legitimizes them. She is encouraged to be neurotic because you do this back and forth with her.

You would be much better off if you simply said (in a firm but not hostile way): I gave you my opinion, I don't really have anything else to add- and then end the conversation.

This will do two things.

One, give her an opportunity to actually think about what you said, rather than all of the distracting side show that gets conjured when you engage her neuroticism.

Two, over time, cause her to think ahead of time whether she really wants your help or whether she's just looking for an excuse to have an argument.

When you demonstrate consistently that you won't engage in pointless arguments, you should find these situations arise less frequently.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Hmmmm. Sounds like the entitled princess decision process... You rarely win those.

First of all find out if she truly comprehends the issue. 

Second, put costs and benefits in your good ole' spreadsheet with plus and minus or other ratings.

Third, pick the first few and look further. Do not get emotional. You're not making (usually) a life or death decision. 

If she's unable to follow basic discourse rules then you're wasting your time. If she's unwilling, likewise. 

Also pick your battles...


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Correct use...of ellipses...learn...it....please, so I...can read.....your posts....thanks.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Whats....ellipses....?
Please explain....


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Touché....


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It is difficult to watch someone you love struggle. The only way she, not you, will make progress is to work at it. You are right, you are not helping her when you constantly come to rescue her. 

What is your direction and focus in life. What gives your life meaning? That's what you need, a reason to live, then you will know how to live. Having someone to love is a reason, how do you want to express that love? You are unhappy because the "how" part of your love is frustrated. 

I think your plan is excellent. In essence, you widen the scope of your life with many things that make you happy. Don't put al of you vitalality into your wife. When she begins to react to your changes, don't try to relieve the discomfort she feels with the changing landscape. Let her flex her problem solving muscles. Don't provide a solution for her. 

She may be depressed because she lost her direction. You can help her to realize that in a loving way. You can encourage her to find a direction. Let her know what you are doing and share your sucess with her. Stay engaged with her and caring but don't solve all of her problems. Suggest, guide, encourage, communicate, share, but let her do the work.

It's the only way you will find out if she has the will to be loved the way you want to love her. If you don't make progress and /or she doesn't, then you decide what to do. Your are looking for a sense of direction and you seem to be finding it. 

Once you have a direction, plan a course. Change it along the way but keep in mind where you want to be. Your wife can't plot your direction, and you can't hers. You can ask her to join you, but it's her choice.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> donny64-- your post is one of the best I've seen on this site. Very inspiring.
> 
> One question I have is what is your take on turning around a relationship that has become unbalanced?
> 
> ...


After my ex, and until my W, my relationships were fairly short lived. Had one I was dating for a couple years, but it was really more of a FWB type thing. Dated quite a bit after that. I was pretty quick to cut someone loose if I found they were at all hard to get along with. If I saw too many red flags popping up, I just went my separate way. The whole "sex as a weapon" thing...deal breaker for me. Got mean or argumentative when they had too much to drink...also a deal breaker. Lies...deal breaker. B!tchy or liked to argue and fight...deal breaker. As you can imagine, I went through a few women pretty fast.

The woman I was with before my W...I really liked that one. Saw her for 6 months. As time went on, she started showing the warning signs. Decreasing sex. Some lies. I started to revert back a little bit to the whole "nice guy" thing. Was getting pizzed, and not standing up for myself. Quite a few times I should have given her walking papers, if for nothing else than a shot across her bow. But I didn't. 

Started off great. I was "on my game", but for some reason, I reverted. It was then it really hit home with me that was not the way to go ever again. I was mostly unhappy, and was resentful. Things started to go downhill. 

When that one broke off, she started to suggest one night that we "take a month off" without seeing each other so she could "clear her head, and just be alone for a while". Lump in my throat, I did have the wherewithal (and some pride remaining) and told her "I agree, that's a good idea. I've been thinking about it a bit as well, and I believe this isn't working out for me, and we should go our separate ways for a while to see if this is what either of us even wants". 

Amicable, calm, low key. It was tough, to not break and try and talk to her about getting back together, but I stuck to it. When it happened, I had a lump in my throat the size of a tennis ball, and it hurt BAD. Everything in me just wanted to beg, cry, plead...do ANYTHING to change her mind. But I didn't. I knew I had "nice guy'd" myself into a bad place, putting up with her chit tests, and pissy comments and behavior, and knew the only chance I had at that point of righting the ship was turning the whole "taking a break" thing back on her. 

I was right. First she looked at me like I slapped her (she was shocked). Then she cried. Then she backtracked a little saying "what I meant was, let's just maybe not see each other quite so much for a month". 

Never called her. Never initiated texts or contact. If she texted, my response was polite, friendly, but short. 

Within a week she was blowing up my phone. That continued for the next month or so, and she still kept making mention via text, email, etc., that we should "give it another try", how sorry she was, that she should have never agreed to take time off, and she kept that up for up to a year later. Once I got a few days away from her to clear my head and think about how she treated me, and the mistakes I made in dealing with it, I knew this was not the one for me, and I never went back. Her loss. And probably a good deal of it my fault because I was failing her tests and taking her crap. Had I done better in the beginning, it likely would not have got to that point. After I finally stood my ground over the whole "break" thing, it was reversed it to the extent she was damn near beating my door down for another chance, and I'd clearly regained some "power" in the relationship...but at that point, I was simply no longer interested in taking the chance on that one. 

Met my W not long after. Kept ever vigilant about not reverting back to the nice guy. Not out of a game, or a show, but because I knew it would make me unhappy to let someone not treat me the way I should be treated. If she ticked me off, I let her know it. Caught her in a pretty big "white lie" about 6 months in. Again, heart in my throat, and scared as hell, I instantly broke it off with her. Hardest week of my life standing my ground on that one and not immediately cracking under the pressure of "breaking up with the most wonderful woman I'd ever met" as I'd thought so many times that week, but knew I had to stand up for myself, show it would not be tolerated, and let her know and feel that she had "lost" me over her behavior. I knew if she didn't show true remorse, that I could not take her back, as painful as that would have been for me. That lasted a week until she came back blubbering, crying, mascara running, blowing snot bubbles, apologizing profusely, swearing it would never happen again. I loved her. Harder than thinking she'd lost me (or I was going to lose her over a "harmless" but serious white lie), was seeing her in that condition. Felt like an azzhole over it, but knew it had to be done. Actions = consequences. Period. I knew for my own well being I simply could not stand for it, as hard as it was to "cut her loose". It never has happened again (that I'm aware), and I'm pretty aware of and vigilant about such things.

A while back we were going through a rough patch. Not arguing (we never do actually), but the sex had tapered off. I was resentful. I was grumpy a lot (over that, work, commute, etc). Hinted about it to her, and it didn't change. Spoke about it a couple times. Didn't change much. Now, she never came up with a bunch of bs excuses (but was often "too tired"), and didn't turn me down too much, but her desire for sex, and how much she was into it had really tapered off. She wasn't initiating anymore. I knew she was losing attraction and excitement for me.

I started pulling back. Started distancing myself from her. Started working out. Was a little vague about the weekly night out with the guys. And I had a talk with her. A heart to heart that "we were headed down a bad road, and if we wanted to stay together, we needed to correct it". Not just a conversation she could dodge or shrug off, but a no-chit, "we are in trouble" type of thing, it was troubling me, and I was having serious reservations on where we were headed. Keep in mind, at this point we probably had never gone more than a few weeks a couple times without sex. And we obviously loved each other, and still didn't fight, but the romance and closeness was reduced to a good extent, and our normal frequency had dropped from 2 to 5 times a week or more to once every week or two. A couple times we went a month or so. Not a huge deal, but her lack of enthusiasm was very troubling to me, and a big red flag. She was still enjoying the sex when we had it, but I also felt she seemed like she would be just as happy falling asleep watching tv every night. 

She started to go "marriage mode" on me. The occasional snarky comment. Remarks to me or in a tone of voice like she was frustrated with me, or just my presence sometimes (not a lot, but a few times). I knew it was time to immediately nip that crap in the bud. As soon as she'd do it, I'd turn and calmly (or even half jokingly to keep it a little light but still put her on notice) say something to the effect of "I'm sorry, are you just having a chitty day, or does my existence in your life pizz you off for some reason? Because it seems like it does. And if that's the case, I can correct that for you". Also told her once that "in case she was confused, I wasn't her ex, had done nothing to deserve her treating me or talking to me like a pain in the azz husband, and if she wanted to talk to someone like that, perhaps she should seek him out". Again, just in a normal tone, or even halfway joking tone with a little smile. Just enough to tell / show her "that was enough" without being a complete d1ck about it.

I made a comment to her at one point asking if she was "unhappy", because she was acting like she was, and if she was unhappy, she should seriously consider if she wanted to remain with me, because I was not going to live with someone that wasn't happy with me, or who treated me like a pain in the azz husband. 

I kept working on myself, still kept going out and doing things away from her at least once a week, kept working out like a mad man. And I kept pulling back a little. 

The 180 happened a few weeks later. An almost complete reversal so quick it would make your head spin. I initiated. We had fantastic sex that she was really into. Next day I started to pull back towards her. Just a little bit. Nice kisses for her when I left for work. A flirty smack on the butt. More flirty texts. A couple days later, she was initiating. The more she was showing she was interested in showing me love, the more I felt comfortable pulling back towards her. The more she did, the more I did. Random hugs, nuzzling her neck, kisses, snuggling on couch...it all started to return. Within a few weeks, we were back to where we were years before, and it hasn't slowed down since. I told her the other day it was "so nice to be falling in love with her all over again". It's been well over 6 months since the "reversal"! And we're acting like teenagers in love again. 

So, here's the thing. I don't believe she ever lost respect for me. Not a bit. BUT she was becoming complacent, and taking me (and us) for granted a bit. And for a while, I was just taking it. I know I also had been doing my part to cause this small rift. Wasn't leaving work at work. Coming home grumpy a lot of times. And I allowed us to continue to drift apart a little bit (before I actually purposely started pulling back). She was getting complacent, and I had also been part of the cause for her losing desire and attraction for me. I wasn't making the hard calls or choices to deal with it, and I probably came off as someone who would just accept it, or who possibly just didn't care himself. Not a good deal. And had become a little complacent myself.

Here's the thing also: All of this SCARED THE BEJUZUS outta me. My long since buried "nice guy" kept wanting to bust out. To "do more" so she would "respond". To just let things (chit tests, her poor behavior) slide. She was / is after all, the greatest woman it's been my pleasure to spend time with. Could I really let her go? I made up my mind...YES I COULD, because I was seeing the potential for an unhappy life was on the horizon, and I was SIMPLY....NOT...GOING...THERE...AGAIN! Rather be single.

What I / We NEVER did during all of this:

Yelled.

Fought (other than disagreement type discussions)

Threw things. Slammed doors. 

Cried. 

Begged.

Pleaded.

Accept pity sex (she offered it several times. Each time it was declined).

Never initiated more than twice without her accepting. If I initiated twice, and she didn't accept, it was on her. I didn't care if I never got laid again...I was going to wait until she came to me.

Never pouted or got angry about the sex. Just removed myself from the situation and went about what I was doing before that.

Never treated her poorly. Sure, I was pulling back, and all the nice little things she loved (snuggling, foot rubs, flowers, etc) were not forthcoming, but I continued to treat her with decency and love, and as the lady she is.

Never got heated or let my anger or resentment get the better of me. Always remained calm. Never called names (never have in fact, during our entire relationship. As much as I may have wanted to at times!)

So, that's a very long answer to your question of have I ever "reversed course". Yes and no. I did reverse the course on this relationship that had the very real potential to go to hell. But did so before it got there. Before serious mistakes were made. Before things were said or done that could permanently harm the relationship, love, and trust. Before resentment became overwhelming or wounds too deep. BEFORE RESPECT (both self respect, and her respect of me, or mine of her) WAS LOST. Without the respect, there can be no attraction I feel.

The final, major point I have here is this: Acting the "nice guy" and not standing up for myself when dealing with girls / women has FAILED ME EVERY SINGLE TIME in my life, and left ME chasing women who did not want me. Just being the "good guy" I am, but still standing up for myself (not accepting or dealing with behaviors that make me very unhappy because I fear losing someone if I protest) has NEVER FAILED ME. It takes balls. It takes confidence. It takes a desire to do what needs to be done to not be unhappy or just "settle" for less than what I want, and be willing to take the risk of being alone if I don't get the kind of relationship I want. Because the alternative (the life the OP is living, and the life I've lived several times before) is just a very chitty, frustrating hell I will no longer accept. I'd rather be alone. It's not, by nature, easy. It can be scary. But the one simple act of standing up for myself has brought me so much happiness (and, excuse me...puzzy) that it boggles my mind, and I'm so regretful, that I could not figure that out earlier in life. It has, however, made me appreciate THIS wonderful woman so much more. And I WILL NOT repeat mistakes of the past with this one! She deserves a good man who will stand up for himself (and by extension her, and her relationship with him) and by god, she's going to get it.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks for sharing your experiences on here with me.

It seems lots has changed because of several issues for my wife. The hard part is snapping her out of the fog that she is in .

first thing that changed is a few years ago her parents passed away - she still has lots of emotions about that and it has seem to have gotten her depressed ..

second thing is that it seems she has now connected with more of her family that she never used to speak with when we were going out or married. That has taken more time and that is fine probably a transfer from her Mom to her as they want to fill a void and speak with her now .

Her age has changed after having a child and a c section, and another operation a few years ago when she had fibroids removed . I feel that these surgeries on top of the changes in life have definitely impacted her hormones.

With the family issues and recent events over the last 2-3 years - it seems like I have taken a back seat to all of the other things in life.. if she has energy after dealing with all of the other stuff then she tries to spend time with me .. 

I can imagine after she deals with work, being a mom and her situations I want some intimacy and sex and now I become an 
issue in the line of issues with her ..

I think she is mentally exhausted - and instead of falling into Nice guy traits and doing stuff to get her relaxed and give her space - perhaps I should just be focused on what makes me feel good and not be so dependent on her which is tough ...

Perhaps I have dreams of one day us taking a shower together which we have not done in 10 years . Or perhaps sex during the day which we did - 3 years ago ...or us going to some couples seminar to enrich our passion and sex life ...it seems that if I think of those things now much of that is just torturing myself and if I focus on her fulfilling my needs at the moment its also falling short of what i am imagining .

Besides executing on my plan - I need to be happy on my own - and also let her sit in many of her issues and upsets if she is ever going to move past them. Me soothing her or helping her doesnt seem to help and its hard when you love someone and you wonder what happened to my happy wife..what happened to the excitement ..

If I keep beating myself up and taking all of it personally and trying to stress myself out to do more - that seems to have the opposite effect of what I want.

What seems to be happening is when we do talk - she gets annoyed so quickly and finds problems .. fast .. its important for me to stay out of that craziness and surround myself with things that make me feel good.

I must say that all of this has demotivated me to even work hard on my work - because I feel unrewarded - but I need to shift that too on how I am going to reward myself and make me feel good with things i enjoy instead of expecting my wife to be happy and desire me because I am successful...

It definitely has put knots in my stomach. 

I want to say I am sincerely grateful to all of you who have taken a few minutes to give me advice. I want 2015 to be different for me and I have to get to work on things that are BEST for me ..

Thanks everyone


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HB--

Just going by what you said, all her issues are several years old at least.

Yes, each of these was a hardship, but she has had time to adapt. Now it's just an excuse.

The fact is, if your needs were a priority for her, she would meet them.

They're plainly not, so you need to act accordingly.

Regarding all of your regrets about time wasted not getting your needs met-- I know what a huge struggle it is to let this go.

You have to try every day to make it a clean slate. But make it a clean slate based first on your respect you have for yourself. Do not treat it as yet another opportunity to crack her code.

Each day you should wake up and think what kind of person do I want to be, what makes me happy. Then do that regardless of what she does. 

In time you will feel much better about yourself. Forgetting about pleasing her will be like a weight lifted off your shoulders. To stop wondering how she'll react about everything you do will be such a relief.

A side benefit of this is that she may decide to get her sh-t together because you will be living such a kick -ss life. You will be much more attractive. But either way, you will be better off.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon, all that is fine but if one is already "at the top of their game" we are back to the 95% for 5% discussion. 

I'm at the top of my game career wise, money wise, material possessions wise, education wise, attitude wise, etc etc. I could benefit to lose 20 lb - lost 10 already this summer - but other than that... Clothing wise :lol: I follow the academician paradigm well... I'm very good fashion wise (my family always defer to my superior fashion sense ) Nothing to add or subtract. 

So, from where I stand, it's 20 lb and the 76 virgins are a-waitin' ... Not quite because if she's that superficial then fvck it and so on.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

The difference is in mindset. You are directing the effort at yourself, NOT your wife. 

You abandon the idea that there is any exchange with your wife. 

Any attraction that occurs is GIVEN to you, not exchanged for something you did.

Now, I will concede that maintaining this mindset is quite difficult. But I believe it can be internalized over time.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Also, regarding being "top of your game"

I believe maxing out outwardly facing attributes is comparatively easy. So physical appearance, etc. And yet very, very few truly maximize their potential in this arena. There is almost always improvement to be made.

Much more difficult (and ultimately more rewarding) is maximizing inward attributes. Developing focus and mental calm. Very challenging, especially in a crappy environment.

I believe this should be the goal.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Inward improvement. ..

I agree. The outside has been relatively easy..and without wworking on the inside..the outside means less....

The hardest thing at the moment
Is dealing withall of the stuff Iinside....


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Inward improvement is as vague a term as I can think of. If I write it on someone's Performance Review I'll have HR asking for my head.

I think high achieving people in my peer group, myself included, do have focus and mental calm. We didn't make it this far in the corporate ladder without those. Also I had to overcome the "furriner" part, the "furrin accent" part, and so on. 

Can we define it in terms of STAR (darned team leader training) ??


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

john117 said:


> Inward improvement is as vague a term as I can think of. If I write it on someone's Performance Review I'll have HR asking for my head.
> 
> I think high achieving people in my peer group, myself included, do have focus and mental calm. We didn't make it this far in the corporate ladder without those. Also I had to overcome the "furriner" part, the "furrin accent" part, and so on.
> 
> Can we define it in terms of STAR (darned team leader training) ??


I admit it is hard to define. I am still searching for a definition myself.

I don't think the job analogy is relevant. It is not about performing for others. It is about the ability to see yourself and do things on your terms at all times, with the understanding of why you are doing what you are doing and how it serves you.

It is not complete solipsism though because my baseline assumption is that the person who employs this has values that include caring for others. But the self reflection and mastery should correct for any expectation of exchange in this caring and instead replace it with a mentality of giving.

Again, overall pretty hard to define.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, that's where it gets too complex. However I'm used to dealing with this so let's try.

To "improve" something - me or a toaster oven - you first need to define what it is you're looking to improve. In the toaster oven's case, let's say it's the "user experience". In my case, "mental focus"...

There have to be measurable targets. I'm not talking 0-10 or A-F scale. A huge part of dealing with the user experience is to come up with such metrics. Yet we can't define "mental focus", can we?

Doing things on your terms? That's not how it generally works. At work and at home one has to work with others, be it cute interns, dour spouses, low project budgets, or financial dire straits. It's all about compromises. Rigging a system of equations to achieve your best possible desired outcome, not 100% what you want. Life is all about Linear Programming...

Without defining and measuring things, we are into "definition of p0rnography" level unclear-ness... Women have exploited this murkiness since time immemorial (ILYBIANILWY), etc.

Self reflection and mastery work great to the extent that one is always cognizant of others in the mix. Life is not f(x), a function of what I do, but more a set of functions f1(x), f2(y, z), f3(x, z)... that one seeks to maximize. (Apologies for the notation )

In a relationship, one has to maximize their gain while, as you said, caring for others... Oftentimes this results in reducing a local or intermediate outcome in order to maximize overall outcome. 

Of course none of that matters if our spouse is stuck at a constant... Which seems to be happening an awful lot.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

john117 said:


> Of course none of that matters if our spouse is stuck at a constant... Which seems to be happening an awful lot.


It takes a while to realise that... many of us have had to go through all the motions... looking for reasons and explanations, trying everything we can to solve the riddle which, unfortunately, is not solvable. You can change the toaster oven, but you can't change people's minds, especially if they don't know what's wrong... with a a toaster, you can.

I haven't seen many success stories in case of mismatches. The few I've seen have used mind games and and emotional blackmail to get where they are. I'm not interested in that. And it's abusive. Only a bunch of people have seen the light and changed for the better. All I can see, in general, is a sea of desperation.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

But we keep trying


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

john117 said:


> But we keep trying


Not me... I'm just enjoying my life without obsessing about sex...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

OK, another attempt.

Yes you can't control completely the terms of your interaction with others. You need to make compromises. 

But no one else owns your mind. You can control to a much greater degree how you receive and process these exchanges mentally.

Everyone has met people who somehow manage to stay very calm even in the most stressful situations. I worked with one of the leaders of my field for several years and the distinguishing feature of this guy was that he never appeared rattled (and I believe this was because he was very strong mentally and able to see things in a broad way that most fail to do).

A cheesy way of saying this is that you cannot control the waves but you can learn to ride them.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Duplicate lolz


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon, my entire field is based on Stimulus -> Cognitive Processing -> Action. What you describe is how it is.

But again, remember that those of us who accomplished things in life did so by staying cool as a cucumber and never losing their marbles. Life is not designed for success around emotional outbursts. 

In 3 days the stuff I spent a year working on premiers in front of the unwashed masses at the 2015 CES in Las Vegas. If you can stay cool and focused when your bundle of joy is demoed to your CEO and a bunch of playas from all over, and if you can think fast and explain / BS around it when your bundle of joy crashes and burns (they all do) that's mental focus of epic proportions. 

Ironically the best guy I know for doing this (a guy so cool that he once reported a bug via text to us during demo, the software team (on stand by) fixed it and sent a patch which he installed seamlessly... The same guy, now a director making seven figures at a competitor, was dumped by his wife because "he was too focused on work and not on his wife". On several occasions his wife, who was in my team at the time, attacked the guy physically at home and clawed him (gardening accidents). Not surprisingly I was the only person she got along with...

So, count me a sceptic and wish me luck for Vegas!!!!


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

What a challenge....why does life Have to. gets so....COMPLICATED


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

john117 said:


> Anon, all that is fine but if one is already "at the top of their game" we are back to the 95% for 5% discussion.
> 
> I'm at the top of my game career wise, money wise, material possessions wise, education wise, attitude wise, etc etc. I could benefit to lose 20 lb - lost 10 already this summer - but other than that... Clothing wise :lol: I follow the academician paradigm well... I'm very good fashion wise (my family always defer to my superior fashion sense ) Nothing to add or subtract.
> 
> So, from where I stand, it's 20 lb and the 76 virgins are a-waitin' ... Not quite because if she's that superficial then fvck it and so on.


So, I'm assuming you get hit on by hot women all the time, right?

I mean, other than your wife?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

marduk said:


> So, I'm assuming you get hit on by hot women all the time, right?
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, other than your wife?



Do interns count? (or their single moms?)


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