# Life with a zombie



## snix11

Has anybody else gone thru the zombie phase with their spouse and gotten OUT of it? 

H is going around like he's dead or something. half a hug, cold fish responses, one word responses. just quiet and dead and just yuck. 

Does this phase end? How can I help it along? How long did it take to end? What did you? what helped? what didn't?

I understand depression, but he's only acting like this around ME. 

That makes me feel awful. 

With his friends and kids he's animated, perky, joking, affectionate etc. In short, ALIVE. 

With me it's plodding, half arm hugs, conciliatory pats on the back and monosyllable talks. 

Maybe I need a good lightning storm and some wire?

Please let me know if anybody else has been thru this and what helped!


----------



## Sufficiently Breathless

With all the things going on too.. perhaps he is just "walking on eggshells".. isn't sure how to respond to you without upsetting you. 

I would ask him why he is this way with you.. if he has no good answer, remember the china


----------



## snix11

good idea breathless...  I needed a topic for tonight anyway. 

Tonights topic: WTF are you acting like a damn zombie around me? CUT IT OUT! 

oh wait, not like i want to, like i SHOULD say it... lets see...

Honey, how can I help you to not feel like you are walking on eggshells? 

(I don't know) 

Are these little nightly talks helping? 

(I don't know)

Is it better when we just kind of hang out as friends? Would that help you come out of your shell more?

(I don't know) 

I think I'm gonna write "I don't know" on a piece of china 

But then again, maybe he'll be real with me tonight and ACTUALLY tell me what he's thinking and feeling. maybe.


----------



## DownButNotOut

He's depressed about the state of your relationship.

Your recent talk with him revealed that. He spent the last week completely dejected about your situation. He doesn't like it, and he doesn't know how to fix it either. It sound's like he isn't even sure if he wants to fix it.

I'd bet walking on eggshells is a part of it. He doesn't want to fight any more than you do, but is scared that he's going to do or say something to kick off the next one.

Right now, I'm very much the same way with my wife. It's like a huge storm cloud descends when she's around, and I'm just trying to stay out of the way until it blows past. It's about me and my mood, not her. But that is still how I feel. When she's gone, I'm perky and happy and can laugh and smile with the kids. I think in my case it is mourning over that roommate feeling, and the loss of whatever intimacy we had. I'd desperately like to rekindle something, but she seems happy with how things are, and I'm not sure how to get through to her. So....I hole up in a mood very similar to the one your hubby seems to be in around you.

I wish I had a good answer for how to fix it. I don't. All I can say is I feel for you, and what you are going through.


----------



## DownButNotOut

snix11 said:


> good idea breathless...  I needed a topic for tonight anyway.
> 
> Tonights topic: WTF are you acting like a damn zombie around me? CUT IT OUT!
> 
> oh wait, not like i want to, like i SHOULD say it... lets see...
> 
> Honey, how can I help you to not feel like you are walking on eggshells?
> 
> (I don't know)
> 
> Are these little nightly talks helping?
> 
> (I don't know)
> 
> Is it better when we just kind of hang out as friends? Would that help you come out of your shell more?
> 
> (I don't know)
> 
> I think I'm gonna write "I don't know" on a piece of china
> 
> But then again, maybe he'll be real with me tonight and ACTUALLY tell me what he's thinking and feeling. maybe.


"Honey, I see you having fun with the kids, then when you see me it's like a cloud of doom drops on you. I hate seeing you all defeated, and when I seem to be the cause it hurts. I love seeing you cheery and full of life. I'd like to see more of that. Tonight why don't we brainstorm ways to boost your mood around me?"

(if you want me to buggar off snix, just holler.  )


----------



## Sufficiently Breathless

Drag him away by one hear to a quiet room.. and tell him. Sit here and friggin talk to me.. I will NOT take any one worded answers.. I NEED INPUT. And we are not leaving this room until you give it to me. 

Be stubborn! BE A B*TCH!!! get him to talk.. Then the china 

*hands you a perma marker for writing "i don't know" on the china*
Every time he says "i don't know" throw one in his direction... eventually he'll either pee his pants or give a different answer


----------



## snix11

oh my... down and breathless... two sides of the coin 

Tell you what... being the nice person I am (or try to be) I'll try 
down's idea first. I know I would love to be approached that way and I know it would work with me. I tend to open up when I feel safe and loved. 

Don't you dare ****** off - you are my voice of reason and love right now. Besides, I love your idea 

It may work great and we really get somewhere. 

Then again, He may go into denial (which pisses me off anyway) with the "what are you talking about? I treat you the same way I treat everybody" routine and try and paint me as nuts or delusional. 

If he goes there, out comes the china and breathless' ideas. Don't you go anywhere either breathless, you are my voice of "stop messing with my heart, I love you but I'm not gonna put up with this forever"


----------



## preso

I guess it's safe to say marriage is no picnic
and I think most people fall into a rut... alas...the working years.

My hope is when we retire we can grow closer or at least start to do some things together.
We opted for early retirement, not more kids.
A good choice I think, at least for us it is.


----------



## Sufficiently Breathless

I'm just in a P*ssy mood today.. so I'm taking it out on your H too lol sorry


----------



## snix11

it's ok breathless.. I'm in the same mood


----------



## preso

Sufficiently Breathless said:


> Drag him away by one hear to a quiet room.. and tell him. Sit here and friggin talk to me.. I will NOT take any one worded answers.. I NEED INPUT. And we are not leaving this room until you give it to me.
> 
> Be stubborn! BE A B*TCH!!! get him to talk.. Then the china
> 
> *hands you a perma marker for writing "i don't know" on the china*
> Every time he says "i don't know" throw one in his direction... eventually he'll either pee his pants or give a different answer



wow.


thats pretty gestapo, you'd make a good FBI interrigator !:lol:


----------



## scarletblue

I wouldn't want to ruin my china so I'd maybe go with plastic plates and a sharpie. They're reusable too! Of course that means he could throw it back, too......hmmmm.

Here's one for ya. My kids gave my hubby some army men. He loved them (brought back childhood memories). Hubby made me mad. I took a shoe box and a sharpie and made a prison camp (I drew barbed wired and razor wire even) and stuck them in there.
Hubby saw that and knew he'd done something. It was a great conversation starter too! "Hey! Why are my arm men in prison?"

I'm not terribly conventional though, so I tend to do things a tad different.


----------



## preso

If you want to terrorize your husbands, I agree....
there are much better ways than ruining your china. Good china
is porus you know which is why you should not even wrap them in newspaper, so they will not absorb the ink.

You could buy your husband some new underwear, just like his old underwear...
in a few sizes too small............. LOL !!!
be sure to wash them a few times first, so he won't catch on...
then when he pisses you off, replace his underwear with the smaller size.
If that doesn't drive him nuts, I don't know what will.. LOL !


----------



## snix11

preso.. no good.. he goes commando. 

However, I could exchange his socks (his precious) for a smaller size


----------



## preso

Life with a Zombie........

lol
sounds like a good title for a movie !


----------



## dcrim

Yeah, like Shawn of the dead... Dawn of the little socks.


----------



## snix11

LOL.... dawn of the little socks 

Well, good news is it never got that far last night. I told him I had my phone call with *drum roll please* Mort Fertel! and he asked me what he said. I mentioned the 'have him do something real* and damned if he didn't do it. 

I actually got a REAL hug yesterday. No one armed, fake, I hate you but i'll give you one because I have to hugs, a real, take me in your arms, look me in the face before you do it REAL hug. kewl 

This morning he had a bad dream (about a zombie chasing him and the baby in a mobile home) and woke up early. Went to work at 530am and I got a hug on the way out the door too. But 530am???

I haven't suspected him of an affair, but... who leaves for work that starts at 9am at 530? He claims he will miss traffic (it's only a 20 min drive) and have time for breakfast this way. (whom might he be having for breakfast?)

He's also been switching his computer screens ALOT whenever I come over to his side of the room. I promised not to put another keylogger on his PC, but does anybody else smell a rat?

Well whatever, I got my hug


----------



## dcrim

Yeah...something stinks...so sorry, girl...


----------



## DownButNotOut

Hmmm.... real hugs = Yay!

But...your suspicions might be onto something. Leaving at 5:30 for traffic and breakfast does sound a little fishy. But...pre-work rendezvous isn't the most likely affair meet-up time.

Actually I'll often leave the house at 5:30. My office has an onsite fitness center, so I like to get there early, and still have time for a bagel afterward. And, I've done the wake up early, can't go back to sleep, might as well go to work routine as well. So it's possible that it is innocent...but the traffic/breakfast excuse sounds a little off.

You might be able to snoop on the computer switching just by seeing what programs are running in his taskbar. That might give a clue on what he's up to, if you feel the need to check. It could be porn, it could be social sites, it could be IM chat. No telling, but it sounds like he's trying to hide it from you....which means he thinks you'll be upset to find it.

It could also explain his moodiness around you....guilt over what he's hiding.

as an aside....
I admire you greatly, snix. For all the effort you are putting in to salvaging your marriage, for your willingness to try new ways to do it. For being a strong woman. For being open to advice from total faceless strangers. 

Personally, I think you should change the locks after he heads to work. After everything you've been through, you certainly have the right. But as long as you are trying to repair things, I'll try to give you the best advice I can. Hang in there, woman!


----------



## snix11

whew, that's better... 

Now, lets see how far things get tonight 

I'm hoping he will actually REMEMBER to give me the hug tonight. lol

last night he said he would give me one every day (kewl) but then he hadn't that day. I didn't say a word, but was ready to go for a walk and cool off. He came out into the hall and gave me the most wonderful of hugs... then said 'feel better now? I just remembered I hadn't given you one" 

OH bs  He's such a control freak.. lol... but i did get my hug.. so if that's the way he wants to play it, fine


----------



## snix11

He told me he really appreciated the sacrifices I made during our relationship. I gave up my hobbies and other things that took extra time and money away from us.


----------



## dcrim

Dang, girl! And you get nothing in return. I just don't get him at all! I still want to bit.h slap him!!  

I know you're trying...but he's not helping! It's a lose/lose situation. I'm so sorry for YOU (not him)...he doesn't appreciate what he's got. And may never know it...Dang!!! (trying to avoid the censure bots...  )


----------



## snix11

This weekend I asked him where we stood. 

I know if I didn't bring up his impending leaving he wouldn't. But it drives me nuts having this hanging over me. 

We went to his friends on saturday. Took the kids. He didn't seem unusual. Sunday he told me he thought we were still married and wouldn't be divorced till he move out. That was a bit weird. If we are still married, THIS is how you treat a wife? seriously?? 

He's stopped cuddling me at night, but I'm not in the mood to complain. Just trying to get thru each day.


----------



## snix11

zombie update, he's working late... or so he says. I see he hasn't deposited his check from last week yet. He's been late deposting them before, it might be nothing. 

But his weird behavior has me jumping at bluebottles. Plus his telling me we are still 'married' till he moves out has me thinking like a spouse. If he didn't want me to act like a spouse, why would he tell me we are still married? If he wants to go out and date, all he has to do is say so. 

Then again, maybe he's just working late. sigh. I just don't know what to think anymore.


----------



## dcrim

Dang, girl...I wish I knew what to do to help! 

That sucks, big time. 

I just cannot understand him! 

He will never know what he's got until it's gone and maybe not even then! 

I'm so sorry...I could/would never treat a lady like that. I wouldn't even know how to start being like that.


----------



## snix11

Morning  

last night was strange again. He came home in a REALLY good mood, all happy and perky. We talked, but it's really awkward these days. He's just acting so nicely cold. No other way to describe it. 

Blech


----------



## snix11

Sir zombie came home last night and was really REALLY nice to me. Can't figure out why. He was complimenting me, telling me how much he appreciated how well i handled the bills, touching me more, giving me neck rubs etc. When we went to bed he was less closed off than normal, although he never made a move to touch me or anything like that. 

This morning he wakes up before 5am (I woke up at 5 and noticed he was already up) and said his prostate hurt. Well duh, he hasn't had any type of sex for months, so that doesn't surprise me. I suspect non bacterial prostatitis but I doubt he will listen to me. 

Oh well. This morning now he's back to being cold and aloof. Perhaps he came last night and that's the problem? He used to say he only had pain after ejaculation.

I figure he was just nice to me because he was horny last night, got up, did his porn thing at 4am and now is happy to be cold to me again. sigh.


----------



## DownButNotOut

That sounds about right. He seems passive enough that that was his version of a come-on. Which makes it a failed booty-call from his perspective. Which could again explain cold and aloof if in his twisted mind (yeah..I have little patience for his games anymore)...if in his twisted mind he thinks he was just rejected. ("Geez...I was nice...I did the right things...said the right things...and still nothing!") 

Question: If he *had* made a move to touch you, what would your response have been?

His actions make him sound very confused, and depressed, and very unsure of himself. Where you are concerned at least, since you say he is different around the kids.


----------



## snix11

DownButNotOut said:


> His actions make him sound very confused, and depressed, and very unsure of himself. Where you are concerned at least, since you say he is different around the kids.


I think you are right about that. 

Was very nice again last night. I drank two glasses of wine, which was a bad idea as it relaxes me enough to make me chatty and affectionate. 

We talked for a while, and the hug last night was longer than usual. He didn't sleep well last night (neither did I but I had just gotten new BP meds which apparently wake me up at 3am) 

Anyway, if he was going to do anything except be nice, he would have done it last night. And he didn't. He also hasn't mentioned any more about moving out, dividing the kids or the finances or anything like that. 

He appears to be cake eating to me. He gets everything he wants right now, without having to be close enough to me to risk getting hurt.

I'm doing everything I can to make more money right now so I can afford to let him go.


----------



## scarletblue

I think it's a good thing you didn't fool around the other night. How much would it have hurt is he was cold the next morning after making love to you. His attitude was still hurtful, but I think it would have been worse if you'd fooled around.

It's good to see you working on taking care of yourself and what needs to be done, ie: making more money so you can let him go. No matter what happens, it can be a real boost to the self esteem to feel in control of that at least.

Hang in there, get happy, and find yourself!


----------



## Feelingalone

Snix,

I agree with DownButNotOut because sometimes that is how I felt -I guess I can get passive at times - I'm just realizing that reading this though it hit a nerve with me. Then I did get unsure of myself with my wife and that built up over time. Then I would get distant looking back on it. I never could express it that way. That is why I like coming on this board - self discovery. Crap on me for not realizing it though.

I obviously haven't read all of your prior posts so I don't know what other issues are there between you two, but don't give up on him. It is taking me a while to get out of my funk, but since I realized I was in one, I mean really got it, I've been working my way out of it. Part of my problem was that I went from trying to be super husband to super dad which seemed to be the right thing to do so I would be fun around my son. Maybe that is why your H appears happy around your kids. I know I lost sight of the fact that my wife comes first and it is okay to spend time with her before him. 

Just my thoughts. On the working late and getting up earlier thing I would try not to read to much into it for now.

With regards to


----------



## SaxonMan

Yes Snix. I think that not only does that phase end, I think it must end. It's not much fun for him either. He sounds like he's very confused right now. I'm not sure exactly about your problems, but was infidelity an issue in the past? 

As far as that "zombie" phase goes, I really think that's the phase I'm in right now. The less I allow myself to be nice and affectionate, the less it highlights what's missing. She simply doesn't seem to notice it and is happier that way. 
I even asked her the other night if she'd noticed how I'd changed lately. I don't even recognise this cold, unaffectionate person that I've become. She hadn't really noticed. 
I guess it's some (possibly ill-advised) form of self-protection.

Anyway, I would think that no matter what your problems are, this phase can't go on for ever. I respect you for hanging in there like you are. Good luck. :smthumbup:


----------



## snix11

His ex wife allegedly cheated on him with several men over several years before he found out. It wasn't his stated reason for breaking up, that was her drinking. You can tell he carries alot of major resentment about it tho. He has often said "she was Fuc*king everybody BUT me". During this time in their relationship, he wanted her but she didn't want him I suppose.

He has maintained over the last year or so that jealousy is a sick emotion and he has none. I think for him that translates into "I'm not going to feel possessive of something I could lose". When we were close, in love and dating, he wasn't crazy jealous, but normally possessive; acting like i was "his" woman etc. I liked the feeling. 

There have been no Physical Affairs in our relationship (that I know of) and only the mildest of Emotional Affair's. 

The more he pulls away from me, stops complimenting me or treating me like a woman instead of a thing, the more I find myself talking to other people (male and female) and making friends elsewhere as my needs aren't being met in that area. 

If I get a new haircut, I want someone to notice and tell me it looks good (it does!) If i lose weight (which I have lost 40lbs!) I'd like someone to notice and tell me I look great. If I dress up or put on makeup or something special, I'd like someone other than the kids to notice. How weird is it that the only male to compliment me on losing weight and looking good was my Ex the other night at my son's birthday party. 

It has been such a huge blow to my self esteem over the past few years, him rejecting me sexually and emotionally. I am just not getting to the point where I can see that it might not have been all my fault. I have lots of offers for dates and such, but I keep waiting on him to wake up, or leave so I'm free to do so. I hate this limbo. 

I am frustrated about not having had any sex, I miss romance and flirting the most I suppose. I miss being treated like a woman. I like being a mom and a business partner and his friend, but I miss the rest. I don't think I'm going to feel whole till I get the rest of that in my life.

This week's 'project' is simply to accept anything good he might do, not complain about anything or ask for anything. To be available to him in the evenings but not to mention it directly. 

I see it helping a little, but frankly at this pace I'll be 90 before he either moves out or decides to be close again.

Feb is still the drop out date, regardless of all my other things I have to worry about. I promised myself to try my best till then. If he hasn't moved out, or gotten over this whatever-it-is of his, that's it.

Honestly I'm already at the place where i'm 95% sure I have tried my best, done everything I could and I'm ok emotionally with him moving out. Financially right now that's a problem, but I'm working on that.


----------



## dcrim

You have tried your best! Never doubt that...it's not your fault, it's his. 

I'm glad you're trying to be financially independant. Keep that up. You will need that. You may have to move into a lower cost place. I know you have kids and it will be difficult. 

I wish I knew what to do to help. We all have different circumstances. Heck, I wish I could twitch my nose (I Dream of Jeannie  ) and make life, the world a better place to live in. 

But I'm here, we all are, for you, girl! Hang on to your friends, even if they are virtual.


----------



## preso

snix11 said:


> His ex wife allegedly cheated on him with several men over several years before he found out. It wasn't his stated reason for breaking up, that was her drinking. You can tell he carries alot of major resentment about it tho. He has often said "she was Fuc*king everybody BUT me". During this time in their relationship, he wanted her but she didn't want him I suppose.
> 
> He has maintained over the last year or so that jealousy is a sick emotion and he has none. I think for him that translates into "I'm not going to feel possessive of something I could lose". When we were close, in love and dating, he wasn't crazy jealous, but normally possessive; acting like i was "his" woman etc. I liked the feeling.
> 
> There have been no Physical Affairs in our relationship (that I know of) and only the mildest of Emotional Affair's.
> 
> The more he pulls away from me, stops complimenting me or treating me like a woman instead of a thing, the more I find myself talking to other people (male and female) and making friends elsewhere as my needs aren't being met in that area.
> 
> If I get a new haircut, I want someone to notice and tell me it looks good (it does!) If i lose weight (which I have lost 40lbs!) I'd like someone to notice and tell me I look great. If I dress up or put on makeup or something special, I'd like someone other than the kids to notice. How weird is it that the only male to compliment me on losing weight and looking good was my Ex the other night at my son's birthday party.
> 
> It has been such a huge blow to my self esteem over the past few years, him rejecting me sexually and emotionally. I am just not getting to the point where I can see that it might not have been all my fault. I have lots of offers for dates and such, but I keep waiting on him to wake up, or leave so I'm free to do so. I hate this limbo.
> 
> I am frustrated about not having had any sex, I miss romance and flirting the most I suppose. I miss being treated like a woman. I like being a mom and a business partner and his friend, but I miss the rest. I don't think I'm going to feel whole till I get the rest of that in my life.
> 
> This week's 'project' is simply to accept anything good he might do, not complain about anything or ask for anything. To be available to him in the evenings but not to mention it directly.
> 
> I see it helping a little, but frankly at this pace I'll be 90 before he either moves out or decides to be close again.
> 
> Feb is still the drop out date, regardless of all my other things I have to worry about. I promised myself to try my best till then. If he hasn't moved out, or gotten over this whatever-it-is of his, that's it.
> 
> Honestly I'm already at the place where i'm 95% sure I have tried my best, done everything I could and I'm ok emotionally with him moving out. Financially right now that's a problem, but I'm working on that.


He has issues for sure, too bad your the one who has to suffer.
I'll tell you something, you should focus on being financially independent !!! Once you are, you never have to put up with anyones c r a p again.
I learned that in my 20's and made sure I did what I had to ... to get the right education and job, so I would never be stuck
and I'm glad I did. It was the best energy ever spent...

ON ME !!!


----------



## foxylainey

Life with a zombie, that describes my relationship now. My husband and I have a joke( well maybe my joke). On SNL there was an episode where they sang, "Could you fall in love with a zombie...". My husband is 53 now and when he was 36 he had a heart attack which I viewed in the hospital. Things have changed alot since then. 

Sometimes in the past when we were still speaking, I would say, could you fall in love with a zombie, and we would laugh because he had been revived, and now well sometimes he is like a zombie with me for real.

I miss the closeness we sometimes had...


----------



## snix11

Yeah me too... MR Z was very nice last night, despite what could have been a HUGE argument. It turned into a nasty bit of stuff instead that was 'overlooked' and agreed upon to be forgotten if not forgiven on both sides.

It was def. my fault - I get sooooo upset when I feel rejected. He had mentioned taking me shooting then going out to buy bday presents for the six yr old. Then thru a bit of child manipulation and weirdness, he ends up taking his daughter. Yes, it was my idea, but said in that 'female' was that means "tell her that you already made plans with me" So, in essence I gave him an opening to choose one of us and he chose her. He thought I mentioned it because I wanted her to go with him. A basic misunderstanding. 

Once he learned that I was feeling rejected tho, instead of fixing things by keeping his promise to take me, he just took her instead anyway. So that was a mess. On the way out the door, he hugged me and said that when I get back, we'll go get the birthday stuff. I then said "i'd prefer..." but then stopped myself as I knew I was too upset to say anything rational and didn't want to screw up what looked like a nice gesture. 

He answers with "I guess not" and say "no, honey.. wait" he just shakes his head and leaves. I don't say anything because I'm already so upset I don't dare say anything else. 

So he goes shooting. Finally I go shooting too, and see him coming home on my way out. I finished shooting quickly and came home, ready to go out and buy the birthday stuff and make up and be friends. I get back, and he's not there!! I found out he had STOOD ME UP and went out to get the birthday stuff. He never even came home, even admitted to seeing me go to the shooting range and pass him. MAN i hate being stood up. When he got back, I did let him know, loudly, that I hate being stood up and really didn't appreciate it. 

He suggested that in the future I not be so 'female' and if I need reassurance tell him "I need reassurance" rather than the "does this make my butt look big" type of thing. I countered with - "fine. but if i put my heart on my sleeve and ask directly for reasurance and you reject me or don't give it to me I reserve the right to stomp your foot." He agreed he stands warned. 

I mentioned how important it was to me for him to be forward and direct too - that I needed him to initiate things half the time. He said he understood (doesn't exactly mean he'll do anything about it, huh?) but at least he heard me. 

He told his daughter yesterday that he now wants to stay and not move out, but hasn't said anything to me about it. What's up with that? Making her happy by lying to her? Not sure? Just wanting me to think he's moving out? what?

Oh, and I'm pretty sure he's been looking at porn on the internet daily. I think he's just looking, not 'doing' anything about it. but still... I thought he had no sex drive?


----------



## snix11

Mr Z was very nice again last night. We took the kids out to the movie for the six year old's bday. I wore one of my new shirts - a halter top because it was still over 90 outside. He said my shirt looked very nice, that it gave me copious amounts of cleavage. But he said it in a way that wasn't at all sexual. I know, strange huh? 

When we got back, around 1030 he put in a movie (yeesh another movie) and we were watching it together. He was being more affectionate than usual. 

Then he said something that floored me and I'm still trying to figure out what it means. Somehow we got on the subject of older women/younger men and he mentioned how he got picked up by an older mexican woman when he was 20-21 and that was the first time that anybody ever tossed his salad. WHAT??!? First time? WHAT?? For a guy that has claimed to be totally homophobic and 'exit only' and don't go near there - all of a sudden he's waxing poetic about tossed salads?! 

He sure does like having his butt tickled tho. But that is more of a putting him to sleep gesture rather than a sexual one. Just lightly running my fingers up and down his butt cheeks and lower back. 

Why on earth did he share that with me? Before I could figure out what to say, the kids came in to watch the movie too. 

Then the kids came up and he backed off from having his feet touch mine. I went to bed during the movie (read was really horny and needed to have my own O) He came to bed around 1am (I was already asleep) and I woke up a little. He brushed my bangs with a brush he found near the bed. (a very unusual gesture for him) 

This morning we both woke up early, and I would have loved to snuggle with him, but he just got up and made coffee.


----------



## DownButNotOut

A) snix...you have given over 100% in trying to make things work. So hold your head high, with no regrets on that front.

B) Tossed salad? *shudder* I have no clue here what he was thinking sharing that with you.

I still think he needs therapy for depression. From what you say, he still sounds like he wants to stay. (I'm taking his comment to your daughter at face value here) But he has absolutely no idea how to go about really fixing things. (Even though you've spelled it out for him)


----------



## snix11

Down - I get the same feeling sometimes (that he wants to stay) but then again, he is SO hard to read. 

Yesterday he was looking up cars on craigslist. We need a vehicle that will hold all of us (right now we have to take two cars anywhere if we want to take the kids) but he also said that my getting a car 'of my own' was one of the criteria for him moving out. ACK. I'm scared to death to ask him which reason he's looking up cars. I did tell him I had a hard time getting behind looking for cars right now. He said only "I hear ya" which could mean "I feel the same way" or "I hear you but still want out and this is my ticket"

Last night again in bed, he was 'leg snuggly' instead of just touching and snuggling feet, he was whole leg wrapping mine. I guess that's progress? But if I try to hold him or snuggle him, he is uncomfortable with it.

This morning he seemed really depressed or deep in thought. I woke up at 4am again, lonely. He asked me why I was up - I don't dare tell him the truth these days about that or it starts a big fight. I just said I couldn't sleep. He got up a little while later with me, and came to the office where I was laying on the couch, naked. I eventually got a blanket because I feel so vulnerable around him naked these days. He asked why I got the blanket, and I said I don't feel comfortable around him naked. He didn't say anything to that.

He just kind of stared into space and smoked his ciggs for about 1/2 hour. I asked if there was anything wrong, he said no, but I could tell that there was. He said he tossed and turned all night. I notice when we are not close and loving, neither of us sleeps well. Finally I got up (I was laying on the couch and he was in the chair) and went over to give him a kiss. I kissed him on the forehead as kind of a goodbye - but he grabbed the back of my neck and pulled me to him, our foreheads touching, then pulled me into a hug and held me tight. He then looked into my eyes with such pain and longing.. I didn't know what to say. He wants me to do something, I can tell that much, but I have no idea what. 

He then went to take a shower, got dressed and said "have a good day" on his way out the door, but more lovingly than usual.

Man this guy sounds confused. I wish I could help - he's still like my best friend in so many ways; I hate to see him hurting, even if it's of his own making. I still think / feel there is something there, but have no idea how to get to him, how to reach him.


----------



## dcrim

Dang, girl...it's so almost there...but so far away.


----------



## snix11

Yeah.. I've had this 'he's right behind some glass wall' feeling for a long time. I can see him, but can't reach him. 

See my post 61167 on http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/5806-life-zombie.html#post61167

I added the info about our argument. As you can see, we do NOT argue well. I don't communicate well, he gets mad, I get hurt. things go downhill from there.


----------



## Feelingalone

Snix, you can break the glass wall down. I know my wife did with me. Now if only I can break down her wall of anger and resentment because it took so long to break mine we will be great.

Its okay to be angry with him when it falls, just remember to give him some positive feedback when it does fall.


----------



## snix11

feeling alone... HOW ... HOW do i break down this wall? I see him wanting me, loving me needing me - but so stuck in this role he's built for himself he can't seem to get out. 

He is also so scared of getting hurt. How can I ever get thru to him that no matter what, I'll be there for him. I love him, warts and all - and I always will. But he's hurting me so badly by staying 'safe' behind that wall that I may not be able to stay. 

I want him, need him, love him... but i need him to want me, love me, need me and show me! 

Come on out honey, I won't bite..  might nibble tho


----------



## dcrim

Oh, Snix...I know...I want, too...hang in there, baby!


----------



## snix11

Argh.. last night, cold cold cold!

"forgot" to give me a hug when he got home, didn't talk, didn't touch while we were watching the movie even tho I made my self avalible and touched him. Just everything about him was screaming "i don't see you, you aren't there"

When we went to bed, his feet did touch mine, but even when I sweetly asked to snuggle he was cold and distant, holding me like i was a dead snake. I asked him "what can we do to get closer, I don't like this distance" he said (drum roll please) 

I don't know

sigh. This morning he was cold again, and putting on cologne (who wears cologne to go fix pools?) for work. 

I just don't get it. The week of 'back off and let him be nice but don't push' seems to be back and forth.


----------



## Feelingalone

Snix,

It is tough and I'm sure that is why my wife is so full of resentment to me because it took longer than it should of in her mind. It doesn't really matter how long it took, just that it was in her mind a long time. 

I tell you my wife started to just do things for herself to make herself feel better about herself. She also gave me the 2x4 to the head with a "I think you need to stay this week somewhere else". That was the proverbial smack I needed. I would come home after work or coach his tee ball games and put my son to bed with her and then go somewhere else from Mon to Thursday evening that week. That was my awakening. It killed me to be away from her and him that way. 

She was planning on a weekend away to her mothers house already that I couldn't attend so I ended up back at the house alone. I treated it like we were Divorced and it absolutely crushed me to think how dense I was. That was my lowest point. 

I know it is never just one persons fault but I do shoulder most of the blame for allowing it to go on. Anyway that is how my wall came down, with a resounding "Mr. Gorbachev bring down that wall" and came down hard. Now if I can just get hers down - unfortunately that might take as long as it took her to bring down mine. I'm just trying to stay strong enough to keep chipping away.


----------



## snix11

Well, I did already have him sleep in the office (a room off our bedroom) for a week. He never once complained but did say he was depressed. He came out of that week saying that he didn't care if we slept together anymore, that our relationship was over. 

So much for the 2x4 approach. 

How can I ask him to go somewhere else for a week? He would never agree to leave his kids (10 and 17) and our child (1) here. 

He only loves them, not me. He feels responsible for and to them. I'm just an aside these days. He likes me well enough, in my place. Which seems to be as a roommate and teacher and babysitter. 

I suppose if he did something reprehensible like cheat openly or beat one of us up, I could get him to leave for a week. But he doesn't see anything wrong with how he treats me. He feels he has done his part by letting me know that he no longer wants a relationship with me, that he's moving out and he's only here as a mercy to me till I'm able to get on my feet financially and get a running vehicle.

He gave me a hug when he got home tonight without me having to ask, tho it was rather shallow and one-armed. He was also joking and teasing me as we walked down the stairs. I can't help but think his better mood might have something to do with his reason for wearing his expensive 'date' cologne to work.

I'm taking the kids (6-9-10) to karaoke tonight. It's really sad my only dates these days are with them. lol... They are a fun crowd, if a bit short


----------



## dcrim

Dang, girl...I'm so sorry...this is no kind of life...I wish I had an idea of what to do...


----------



## snix11

Mr. Teasing was all happy and such last night, but didn't want to even touch when we got into bed. He was gone and off to work before 6am today. I noticed when I got up he was sitting in his truck (I noticed because the lights were one) for a long time in the driveway. How strange.


----------



## Feelingalone

Snix,

You've got to remember my w didn't ask me to go, she said go. Maybe just do it. Also, I think you've got to stand up for yourself - don't let yourself be a "babysitter". Heck, call some friends and go out yourself. You've got to make yourself happy. That is what my wife started doing and it showed me something about her. Now I'm trying to make myself happy and show her something so that one I'm happy with me and two she can be happy with me.

Life sure gets complex as you get older. What I wouldn't give to be just a little one in a sand box playing again with no worries but who took my shovel.


----------



## snix11

lol alone 

Well, two things I learned today - he is going in so early to be on the computer at work - and he forgot his cell phone here today.

I'm going to talk to him tonight, and we may go that way. I know that this stone walling me isn't working for me. I've put up with enough of his **** for one year, thank you very much. I have tried to go with his "my way or the highway" thing for too long now. Killing the relationship to save the friendship? 

How about being friendly then? And barring that, why go thru the ruse? Bah.


----------



## Feelingalone

I'm still looking for that shovel by the way. Anyone seen it?

Don't think of it necessarily as stone walling. I wasn't even aware how I was changing - it just happened. Maybe he is doing it consciously but I bet not. I really suggest to start doing things for yourself to make you happy. In the end if you are happy - then you are happy.


----------



## scarletblue

Do you have any girlfriends you can go hang out with? If so, go out to dinner/coffe/something with them. You deserve some "me" time. Can you just let him know that he has kid duty that night and go out and have fun (with nonshort people).

Maybe then he will see you and not take you for granted. Maybe you will have a good time and see that happy, great person, that has been pushed so far into the background that you forgot you were.

Your ability to be such a positive person through all of this still astounds me, but I bet it is really hard on a day to day basis when you repeatedly get mostly negative responses in return from him. 

I must say, this guy confuses the crap out of me, lol.


----------



## Sufficiently Breathless

I'm moving in and taking the job as your assistant.. or whatever lol 

I'm a good gopher 

Hows the china? Not missing any pieces yet I hope. 

I'm sorry for what your going through girl. *big hugs*

*kicks her H in the shin* WAKE UP DUMMY! eh....

Refuse his hug once when he comes home.. see how he reacts to that? If all else fails.. *hands you a plate*


----------



## snix11

Scarlett - the only girlfriends I have are the wives of his best friends. They are all loyal to their husbands fraternity and all 'brothers' So it's no good going out with them, they will start asking why I'm not going out with him etc. 

The only other people I know in town are male. I tend to make closer better friends (platonic) with males more than females for whatever reason. 

I AM trying to be positive... but dang... two YEARS of this? I honestly astound myself sometimes at how much I can take. His boss called at 10am this morning and was angry he hadn't showed up for work yet... hmm... leaves at 5, not to work by 10? Must have gotten lost on the 20 minute drive to work...

Breathless - come on  You can have your pick of bedrooms, and free room and board for any horses, dogs or cats kids that you might bring with you. I have a 4000 sq foot farmhouse and if / when he moves out i'll be down to three kids in the house. 

China is intact so far - with six kids in the house I only bring it out for special occasions. 

Thank you SO much for the hugs *sniff* Damn dummy... 

I have refused his hug, or walked out of the room when he ignores me and goes and talks to the kids. Sometimes he doesn't notice at all, but sometimes he will come in and say 'well you didn't have to leave, what is your problem' and make it all my fault that I am too sensitive or asking too much. 

Bah, men. Present company excepted here on the forum of course


----------



## Rhea

What an a$$hat. He needs to sh*t or get off the pot. You're a d*mn good woman and have proven that several times over w/your partience and willingness to keep trying no matter what. He's got some SERIOUS issues he needs to deal with and NOT at the expense of your SANITY. Bless you girl.

What about the gun club? Meet any new people there. If I lived by you I'd come pop some rounds off with you. I'm seriously thinking about when I get some more $$ (I'm broke as heck right now due to this) purchasing my own and joining one here.


----------



## Corpuswife

The not getting to work by 10 when he's left at 5 thing....is suspicious. Perhaps someone on the side. I say time to be your own private investigator. That would be a good reason for the wishy washy behavior.


----------



## recent_cloud

out of respect of your unflintchingly positive attitude, the next sentence shall start with the word 'if' instead of 'when'.

if your marriage ends, one thing is certain: you'll have no nagging doubts that you could have done more.

are you becoming more suspicious of his rather odd new habits...sitting in the truck in the driveway...wearing his good cologne...leavaing for work 4 hours early....

although the obvious 'then' to the above 'ifs' would be devastating, it would also pave the legal way out of your situation.


----------



## Feelingalone

I wish I knew the answers Snix. Remember I was the zombie one. I'm just trying to re-connect with the woman I love deep in my soul. Hearing some of what you describe makes me cringe at myself for inflicting that kind of pain and hurt on her without even realizing it. Why do we sometimes hurt the ones we love most?

I just hope she can some day forgive me -- not sure I can forgive myself. But I'm working on it.

Just keep moving forward for you. Maybe you need to find some new friends or just go out with a platonic male friend. Anything to rock the boat.


----------



## snix11

Rhea, I have seriously thought of joining the league, but like you, i'm totally broke right now. I'm scrambling to pay my mortgage, much less everything else (including legal bills) I would love to join, but at about 20.00/day for ammo, it's too expensive for me right now.

Corpuswife - Yeah I know. Honestly i'm a lot less upset about him screwing around than I thought I would be. He's been gone from our sex life for so long (years even tho we kinda sorta had sex) that it seems like it's not that big of a deal. Plus I was looking at the girls he was checking out on line. Blech. At least pick somebody cuter and shorter and younger than me! So yeah, if he dates some ugly old skank, that's his problem. For some reason it would only hurt me if he got a beautiful 20 yr old redhead. shrug. Go figure.

recent - i'm also figuring that into the mix - the legal aspect. Frankly it might be easier if he does cheat. Or gets caught. Or whatever. I don't know for sure that he IS, or that he WILL, but his behavior sure is suspicious. 

alone - maybe you are right. One of Mr. Z's friends and I have talked occasionally. He lost his dad a while back and has been in a funk ever since. He's "safe" as he is one of the brothers and there wouldnt be any sexual tension or pressure. He might be somebody fun to talk to or hang out with. 

But this waiting around for him to show up, ignore me is infuriating. I'm not normally a doormat, this isn't who I am. But i find myself becoming one to try and help us out of this. But it's only helping a little. So he will make me feel bad and little for going out. FINE. Heap on the guilt if you must dear - a little to the left tho, the rest of the emotional burden i'm bearing from this relationship is getting unbalanced


----------



## snix11

Well Mr. Z's boss called up again at 630, wanted to speak to him. I said he wasn't home yet. He thought that was strange since he had left work at 330. It's now 730 and he's not home yet. Guess he's trying out that new route to work. uh, huh. issed:

I can't *wait *to hear the explanation for this one. 

His daughter hurt her finger, I had to take her to the doc, she's fine and resting. The baby was crying all day (he's teething again) I worked all day and am just getting done with my last reports. All the kids are homeschooled, chores done, houseclean, dinner almost done. It's now 730 and still no sign of Mr. Z. 

Glad to know I can take such good care of his kids while he's off... um.... trying out new routes from work. Yeah, that's it. Stuck in traffic! (stuck in something, that's for sure) :rofl:

I know I know, there is probably a perfectly good explanation for all this. Think the best of him. Just last week he swore to be open and honest with me. Plus he promised never to cheat, right? right? :scratchhead:


----------



## recent_cloud

snix11 said:


> I know I know, there is probably a perfectly good explanation for all this. Think the best of him. He promised never to cheat, right? right? :scratchhead:


as jake blues sez:

'i ran out of gas! i got a flat tire! i didn't have change for cab fare! i lost my tux at the cleaners! i locked my keys in the car! an old friend came in from out of town! someone stole my car! there was an earthquake! a terrible flood! locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!'


----------



## snix11

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Damn I like your sense of humor


----------



## dcrim

Hey, Snix...when he moves out and Breathless moves in, can I come, too? No pets, just lovable me.  Probably not much help on a farm, but I'll do whatever I can...

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the explanation, too.


----------



## Feelingalone

Snix,

I don't understand this "new routes to work" and if it is something that is something that I never have done nor would do to my w. But I just wanted to let you know that reading what you are going through gives me a glimpse of what my w was going through with my zombie phase. It helps me understand her and her resentment about it. I know that doesn't help you right now, but I must say it is helping me.

I guess she was starting to feel like a door mat because of my unhappiness and the burden like you feel. Jeez, what a fool I was to not see that.

Anyway, you need to go ahead and go out with the safe one. Quite thinking about your h for a while. You need to be "selfish" about you. I know that is hard but you need it as a start to regain yourself. I now understand that about my w. That will be your first step to making yourself happy. Again thanks for sharing this helps me a lot to understand where my w was at.


----------



## DownButNotOut

Feelingalone said:


> Quite thinking about your h for a while. You need to be "selfish" about you. I know that is hard but you need it as a start to regain yourself.


This:iagree:

snix. At this point, I don't think there is anything you can do to "make" him happy. Make yourself happy, and if he is going to come along...great! If he insists on being miserable...well...at least you're happy. 

Keep the kick-out clock ticking. Work on making yourself happy. Happily include him if he wants to join you.


----------



## Rhea

He very obviously wants someone to wallow in his misery with him. So...he gives you just enough to stick around because it gives you that glimmer of hope. It won't get better until HE wants it to get better don't let him get the best of you! I'm not saying leave him but don't let him have the last laugh. I admire your efforts girl but don't lose yourself in the process. Stay strong. Hugs!


----------



## scarletblue

OK, I'm tired just listening to your daily routine. No wonder he throws you a bone every now and then. You keep everything together and going, he doesn't want to loose that. I would have cabin fever if I were you.

As for the time gaps between leaving for work and getting there, and leaving work and getting home....what could cause that? Time traveling? He wants to suprise you with a statue of you that he's been sculpting by hand out of marble? His secret shame is that he volunteers at soup kitchens now?

I wouldn't be wasting the china over that one....I'd be getting out the cast iron frying pan.


----------



## snix11

Mr Z shows up at home around 9pm. I asked him what happened, he said he was just working late. I shared with him what he boss said and he immed called his boss. He said his boss' wife was aware of what he was doing, and his boss wasn't even in the office all day as he was out doing other things. Well, whatever. Mr Z said if his boss calls again, to take it with a grain of salt. 

I decided it was time for another talk last night. It was pretty long and painful, but here is the info I got out of it:

1. He says he never told his daughter he was staying, she misunderstood that. His version of the events is that she asked him if he was leaving and he said that it was adult stuff and not to worry about it. She swears this is absolutely untrue and he said he was staying. Again, whatever, I don't want to get into the middle of that nonsense, or get the 10 yr old involved, i was just curious as it was so different from what he had said. 

2. He says he is leaving because of his personal baggage he has to work out - which includes issues with commitment, issues not knowing who his father was etc. He says he can't work on those while he's here because being here and being loving takes too much time and energy away from his 'real' issues that he needs to work on. If he doesn't work on those issues he will never feel happy or healthy. i see.

3. He is staying to make things easier on me. He asked me if it would be easier on me if he just left. He says he doesn't want to hurt me and is sorry it's over. (oh spare me) I told him that him being here gave me hope that I could keep him from leaving and that I didn't see that there was any good reason TO leave. He said he understood why I might feel that way (ugh, spare me the bleeping psychobabble) He tried to tell me we were both in shock this week but I called him on that - the one who breaks up is rarely the one in "shock" he said 'yeah, i was just trying to commensurate with you to make you feel better about it. I'm not really in shock'. Again, spare me.

He doesn't want me to hurt, says he would feel terrible if he just left me high and dry without enough money to pay the bills or a running car (remember he has two and one of them is in my name). I asked him why it was so important for him not to hurt me by leaving me without a car or money but it was ok to break my heart and leave me. He didn't have an answer for that.

4. He says that he isn't being close to me right now because he sees everything as an emotional train wreck -that this phase is temporary and I shouldn't worry about it because it's benign. I did ask him how long he was going to keep temporarily twisting this knife in my heart hurting me. 

5. He doesn't have a move out date, hasn't looked at apartments, hasn't looked into getting another car etc. 

Ok... so he feels he 'vants to be alone' to work out issues that I don't see A) being alone and running away are conducive to working out (like commitment) and B) he may never get the answers to anyway (like who his real father is) 

I don't feel either of these issues are enough to leave your wife and child over. He says he isn't angry, doesn't have a problem with how we get along, or parent or anything. He says he enjoys my company. Swears there isn't anyone else etc etc. He just needs to be alone to 'get healthy' because of his 'baggage'

Ok... so how about we call his bluff? He wants to move out, but knows we are in a tight spot financially and it may be a while before he can do it. Says this is all just temporary till he works out his issues. Says he cares for me and doesn't want to hurt me. Says if he can work out his issues he can finally be whole with us and the man I want. 

He kept saying that he didn't feel he could 'maintain' the kind of love that i wanted from him - caring romantic etc because of his issues. And that if he tries to be the man I want, that takes the time and effort away from him fixing himself and his issues.

So how about he moves in with one of his friends for a few weeks/months? They would let him live there free - he wouldn't have to get another place (as it's only temporary anyway, right??) he could still visit here sometimes (or should i restrict that so that he has more time to work on his 'issues') and we wouldn't have to uproot the kids etc. 

He could still have his allowance, we would still get enough money to pay the bills here, he could work on his issues and then when he had them worked out move back in. 

What do ya'll think?


----------



## Feelingalone

Go for it! That seems to be the only way.


----------



## DownButNotOut

I like it, snix.

Hmm...could you clear it with the friend beforehand? Then confront Mr. Z with "I've already talked to X and he's got the spare room all ready for you". It heads off the "nobody will", or never asking excuses.

Good luck! I'm pulling for you.


----------



## scarletblue

If he is so concerned with resolving his issues, why the heck isn't he seeing a counselor? How do you get over now knowing who your father was? Hire a PI and try to hunt the dude down? 

The way to deal with commitment issues is to run away from a commmitment? It's easier for him to deal with this alone rather than with the love and support from your wife? Hmmmmmm....

I say go with your plan and call his bluff. If that works out, then yippee for you. Personally, I think he'll figure out some excuse to say that wouldn't work. 

It is really nice of him to keep you in the picture after he gets his act together, how sweet. "Honey, I'm gonna do what I want, I mean need, to do and you just hang on there for an indefinate period of time while I'm doing whatever I want, I mean need, to do. So, you be a good wifey, and put your entire life on hold for me while I figure out my issues, will ya?"

Sorry, I got a little sarcastic overload going on here. If it makes you feel any better, I am extremely irritated on your behalf. 

Hang in there girl!


----------



## Corpuswife

snix,

It sounds like a good plan. You can gather your sanity as well. He can even take the kids on the weekends! This will help you move forward. 

My husband also needs to "find himself" and frankly I am tired of waiting....


----------



## snix11

As if life wern't interesting enough... how about a nice pandemic? 

11 June 2009 -- On the basis of available evidence and expert assessments of the evidence, the scientific criteria for an influenza pandemic have been met. The Director-General of WHO has therefore decided to raise the level of influenza pandemic alert from phase 5 to phase 6. "The world is now at the start of the 2009 influenza pandemic," she said at a press conference today.

WHO | World Health Organization


----------



## snix11

DownButNotOut said:


> I like it, snix.
> 
> Hmm...could you clear it with the friend beforehand? Then confront Mr. Z with "I've already talked to X and he's got the spare room all ready for you". It heads off the "nobody will", or never asking excuses.
> 
> Good luck! I'm pulling for you.


Good idea  I'll be working on that this week... what excuse should I give the friends in question?


----------



## Leahdorus

snix11 said:


> Good idea  I'll be working on that this week... what excuse should I give the friends in question?


Why give the friend an excuse? Just say he needs a place to stay because he told you he needs to "work on his issues, away from you." Let the friend ask him the details.


----------



## snix11

scarletblue said:


> If he is so concerned with resolving his issues, why the heck isn't he seeing a counselor? How do you get over now knowing who your father was? Hire a PI and try to hunt the dude down?
> 
> The way to deal with commitment issues is to run away from a commmitment? It's easier for him to deal with this alone rather than with the love and support from your wife? Hmmmmmm....
> 
> I say go with your plan and call his bluff. If that works out, then yippee for you. Personally, I think he'll figure out some excuse to say that wouldn't work.


He has mentioned seeing a counselor, I have suggested it even saying I would be happy to pay for it (somehow) but he says he can't start looking for one till he moves out :scratchhead:

Frankly, from the info he's got, he's really never going to know who his father was - long story there. but the three suspects are long dead and the long shot is his uncle and it's unlikely he would submit to a DNA test.

I don't understand the running away to solve commitment issues either. I also expect an excuse - but calling his bluff may give me some 'real' information that he can't wiggle out of.

He did not ask me to stay - he specifically said that he didn't think it was fair of him to ask me to wait for him to work out his issues. Then again, he says if he works them out, he can finally be the man I need him to be.


----------



## snix11

Leahdorus said:


> Why give the friend an excuse? Just say he needs a place to stay because he told you he needs to "work on his issues, away from you." Let the friend ask him the details.


because i think that would humliate him or he would think i'm trying to make him lose face in front of his friends. He had specifically asked me not to mention anything to friends or family until he's ready to move out to avoid any 'drama'.


----------



## snix11

Corpuswife said:


> snix,
> 
> It sounds like a good plan. You can gather your sanity as well. He can even take the kids on the weekends! This will help you move forward.
> 
> My husband also needs to "find himself" and frankly I am tired of waiting....


hmmm... no kids on the weekends.. oh i like that idea


----------



## snix11

He called me today, and was oh so concerned about me being stressed today. Hrumph. I'm just not buying it anymore. Mr Z is concerned about my health, my vehicle situation, my stress and my money, but not my heart? 

Screw that.


----------



## recent_cloud

snix11 said:


> He had specifically asked me not to mention anything to friends or family until he's ready to move out to avoid any 'drama'.


well, he's ready. you're there. so don't feel obligated any more.

once again we're very different, you and i. if i were you my spouse would not even dare suggest whom i could talk to about whatever. but that's really here nor there, it's just interesting how many different ways there are to do the right thing.

good for you, and i bet you ate some chocolate and then realized you weren't limited to only one choice.


----------



## scarletblue

Is his picture next to the definition of "cop out" in the dictionary?


----------



## Rhea

scarletblue said:


> Is his picture next to the definition of "cop out" in the dictionary?


I think he and my husband share that photo op in the dictionary :rofl:


----------



## dcrim

Dang, he NEEDS to lose face to his friends! They need to know how stupid he is, how badly he's treating you! He needs a MAJOR, CONTINUOUS shock to himself! If you get asked, tell everyone you know! Let them all know he's an a$$hole and how he's treating you. Spread it around! Make his friends confront him! 

You've vented on here...do it in RL!!!!! Don't suffer because of him. Let everyone know what you're going through! 

I don't care what he's telling you, his friends...he's just plain and simply a fu.king idiot! He's wrong! He NEEDS to see see counselor before he moves out or whatever he's going to do. 

If I thought my car would survive the trip, I swear I'd come down there and help put his stuff at the curb and change the locks! I know you love him, girl...I know it hurts...I really do. But he needs a major shaking and I sure wish I could give it to him! 

Sorry for all the "!"s...I just get so PO'd at him for treating you like this. And, yes, you've done a WONDERFUL job of trying to keep it together! 

Heck...marry me! I'm over my baggage and I promise I'll treat you like the lady you are!  

Forget his DANG father...who cares?!?!?!?? That's just another stupid, a$$inine phrase!! My father beat me as a child. I got over it (ultimately I caused his death...another story...sigh...). Big deal! He don't know his? So WHAT?!? Be glad! 

I'd have him followed, girl. Something serious is up and it's not you! And get YOUR car(s) back! Make him walk to work. Make him take a bike, a buss, anything but YOUR car. But get your own back! 

Dang, girl...I'm just so PO'd at him...I'm glad I don't own a gun or I'd be seriously tempted to do something with it!


----------



## snix11

This is texas, dcrim.. we all own guns 

man was tonight interesting... He got home, I left. I couldn't take one more night of being here with him being polite and cold. NO MORE. When i got back (at 1130) the kids hadn't been fed, and were all yelling and fighting, the kitchen was a mess, the trash wasn't taken out the dogs had dumped the trash over in the front hall (why was there trash in the front hall???) and the 10 yr old was watching the baby downstairs while Mr. Z was upstairs reading and going to bed. SIGH. 

I tried to spend some time with him still - and he fell asleep at 12. Not even a kiss. I miss real kisses. I guess he doesn't like the way I do it anymore. sigh. But he was polite. said he was worried about me and tried to call but didn't have my cell number. After 12, I went to wal mart to get food, diapers and cleaning stuff. Unpacked the groceries, put the baby to bed (finally... that child never sleeps) but i didn't clean the kitchen or the dining room. oh well. And the AC was out downstairs and not working well upstairs. It's about 89 degrees in the house and everybody is sweating and cranky. I fixed the AC downstairs (for now) and got that all settled. 

Am i ever gonna get some sleep? Now my legs are cramping so I'm eating bananas. Ah fun 

I finally do something for me and the whole house goes to he** in a handbasket. 

215am... wish i had some company. DC, does that toolbox have anything in it to fix a squirrel cage in an AC unit? if not, how are you on setting up swamp coolers?


----------



## DownButNotOut

Yep....he needs to go.

It's one thing to give you the cold shoulder all the time. It's another to ignore the house completely when you are gone.

1130?!

Even at my most depressed, the kids are fed, bathed and in bed. Their toys are put away, and the trash is emptied.


----------



## dcrim

Snix, well, I got screwdrivers, pliers, wrenches, crimpers, and so on. 

Not sure what a swamp cooler is. But it sounds interesting.  

Girl, I'd sure ream him a new one!! He's got the house and kids as his responsibility and now his stupid attitude is having a deleterious effect on them! He can't take out the trash? Clean up a little. Lets the kids go hungry?? And HE GOES TO BED?!? I'd have kicked him out of bed and made him help with things! 

He doesn't have your cell number? After all this time? 

Even I can't wait until next February! I'm so looking forward to you getting your life back! I know what it's like at 0215. I often up late (but not that late on work nights  ), later on weekends.


----------



## snix11

To Mr Z's credit, he may have thought the kids ate before he got home at 7. I was too upset when I left to remind him to feed the kids. I figured he'd spend the time with the people he was in love with - the kids - and be happy about it without having me around to bother him.

Dc, I know that he probably deserves me to yell his nonsense to his friends and the world, but that is just too mean. Whatever I did to lose his love, I'm sure I'm responsible in some way, even if he doesn't want to share it with me. I would never want his friends to think poorly of him or air our dirty laundry to the world. It takes two to fall in love and two to fall out of love. I just wish I knew what it was that I did so I could fix it. 

Whatever it was, apparently he doesn't feel it's fixable or that I deserve to know. I suspect he's too angry right now to tell me, even tho he swears it's not anything i did. I hope that some time in the future he shares it with me.


----------



## dcrim

I don't think it's anything you did (or didn't do). 

His attitude about the kids and the house says a lot about him. He could have asked the kids if they'd eaten. And watched them so they didn't fight, etc. 

It says that he just doesn't care about anything! You are collateral damage. And now so are the kids.


----------



## DownButNotOut

The best thing you could do if he is staying in the house, and not moving in with a friend, is find him a counselor and MAKE him go.

Last night's incident is a classic sign of depression.

dcrim nailed it too "It says that he just doesn't care about anything!" -- again, this points to depression.


----------



## snix11

I agree... he's tuned out, not just to me but to everybody. When i'm around, he ignores me pointedly and is all over the kids, but when i'm gone he gets into deep depression and ignored everybody? I'm just clueless how to help him. I thought being away would help, both of us. 

He says he loves being at work and he's battling his depression by throwing himself into work. He is looking at porn (which i don't really give a hoot about) so that shows he's not sexually dead at least. 

He says he loves work because he can do things that matter, he helps people fix their problems, and he has a feeling of accomplishment. He finally is starting to feel good about himself and that he is worth something. 

I guess all the things he doesn't get with me around and from our relationship?


----------



## scarletblue

He likes being at work because it helps him avoid the problems at home. That's just my opinion, but it sure does seem cowardly.

If it wouldn't hurt the kids (which it would), I would say leave the house for a few days. Let him deal with everything, then maybe he's get a sense of appreciation for all you're doing.

He says he doesn't want to hurt you, but his mere presence is hurting you. It's a giant open wound that can't even heal because he's there festering in it. By the time Feb comes around, you're either gonna be too relieved or too numb to even realize it.

By the way, what is a swamp cooler?


----------



## snix11

omg... he drops another emotional BOMB on me, then in the middle of it (me handling it REALLY well) he says he wants to talk about it later, not now. Why? because I'm calm and rational??

Good god. I'm going out to play backgammon - he wants to talk later, I'll talk with him when I get back.

He's talking about the ****ing cars again - he's apparently taking BOTH of our working cars and he thinks we should trade in a truck and the non working vehicle for something else. 

I rationally said 'well, depends on why we are getting it. if we are getting another vehicle so we don't have to take two cars wherever we go somewhere as a family, then we need a van or similar. if you are talking about this as a precursor for leaving, then i just need a sedan if I only have to drive around three kids. which are you talking about?' He said both. I said, so does that mean you are leaving or what? He said or what. Ok, that makes NO sense to me. then he said he wanted to talk about it later. 

Argh.....


----------



## Rhea

snix11 said:


> omg... he drops another emotional BOMB on me, then in the middle of it (me handling it REALLY well) he says he wants to talk about it later, not now. Why? because I'm calm and rational??
> 
> Good god. I'm going out to play backgammon - he wants to talk later, I'll talk with him when I get back.
> 
> He's talking about the ****ing cars again - he's apparently taking BOTH of our working cars and he thinks we should trade in a truck and the non working vehicle for something else.
> 
> I rationally said 'well, depends on why we are getting it. if we are getting another vehicle so we don't have to take two cars wherever we go somewhere as a family, then we need a van or similar. if you are talking about this as a precursor for leaving, then i just need a sedan if I only have to drive around three kids. which are you talking about?' He said both. I said, so does that mean you are leaving or what? He said or what. Ok, that makes NO sense to me. then he said he wanted to talk about it later.
> 
> Argh.....


Time for him to sh*t or get off the pot. He's either leaving or he's not. He SERIOUSLY needs counseling. He sounds SEVERLY depressed. I'm no doctor but many of us have dealt w/it here and we and of course you are all seeing text book symtoms in him that scream depressed. Man I wish not only for your sake but for his (because he's damaging himself as well) he'd go see someone. Man I know it's really hard to watch someone go through that. I've watched several family members as well as my DH go through it. The sickest thing about it is that almost everyone can see it but the person that's experiencing it.

Again Snix I admire your strength and devotion. But d*mn girl I know you're hurting. 

Hugs, guns, and much love (lol thought the gun part might make ya grin a little, thought you could use a smile even if for a short minute) :smcowboy:


----------



## Jessie Girl

My husband is doing the same thing, we've been married eight years now and it almost feels like we are room mates, how do we get back on track


----------



## snix11

He told me that the sex hadn't been good between us for 2.5 years. Then he said he never said that. 

He tells me all these things, then says later he never said that. Is that a symptom of depression? He's trying to make me out like i'm crazy because he swears he didn't say something i KNOW he did. 

He says he KNOWS he didn't say it. I have been just capitulating, and saying "ok dear, you didn't say it" but he will then play this 'she's nuts' tape over and over in his head because of it. 

I have also said, well we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. But that's not good enough for him. I'm supposed to agree that he never said or did things i KNOW he did. WTF is he DOING?


----------



## ladylouise

Snix:

I have been reading these post for some time, and do not mean to butt in. I had to post as this is quite frankly a mental / depression issue or he is out right trying to set you up for a big fall. Either way, help is needed, and it is not something you can do anything about. He is going to drive you crazy. For you and your childrens sanity/safety, he needs to get help or move out. Start documenting, taping the conversations...make it a stipulation that he see a counselor. Just my take.



snix11 said:


> He told me that the sex hadn't been good between us for 2.5 years. Then he said he never said that.
> 
> He tells me all these things, then says later he never said that. Is that a symptom of depression? He's trying to make me out like i'm crazy because he swears he didn't say something i KNOW he did.
> 
> He says he KNOWS he didn't say it. I have been just capitulating, and saying "ok dear, you didn't say it" but he will then play this 'she's nuts' tape over and over in his head because of it.
> 
> I have also said, well we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. But that's not good enough for him. I'm supposed to agree that he never said or did things i KNOW he did. WTF is he DOING?


----------



## dcrim

I think you need to tie him down and pound the heck out of him!!! Then shoot to get it over quickly!


----------



## snix11

very funny dc... sigh

After the car 1/2 conversation last night, when i got back, he puts things off till i'm exhausted past 1230. I ask him if he wants to talk, he says we dont need to. WHY keep me on pins and needles like this, emotionally making me a wreck with the lets talk about it later, then not talk about it?? 

He says that he is moving out when I can afford it. I asked him what that looked like. He rolled his eyes, turned away from me - all the signs of disgust and anger and frustration. I didn't think that was a stupid question. He said when we both agree that I am financially stable. 

So today he goes out and spends money getting his car fixed when what we really need is the AC in the house fixed. I don't get it.

He says he won't leave till I'm financially stable then he keeps going out spending money. We never did talk about what car, whether or not its going to be a family car or just for me. He said I would have to make that decision. What does THAT mean?

Today, no matter what I say to him he says i'm attacking him. If I ask a question for clarification, paraphrasing what he said and politely, I'm mocking him. 

I said I was sorry for my part in the argument today. He counters with "i'm sorry I defended myself"

Oh for pity sake. He yelled, threw things, slammed doors. Now says I MADE him do that. it's MY fault for pushing him to that. And if he truly felt he was defending himself, why on earth would he be sorry?


----------



## snix11

wow. do I feel stupid and small. He told me that he got the car fixed because it's the one I drive and that he did it as a present for me 

No wonder he feels like he can't do anything right. sigh. He also told me that it seems like I'm not trying to fix us, that i'm just trying to manipulate him into loving me and making me the center of the universe. 

We actually had a pretty good talk. He was at least half there 

I told him that I am happy to work on me and us, but that i need INPUT. if he wants me to change, he's going to have to tell me what he wants changed! if he wants me to work on us, I need to know what he thinks we should try or that he would like to try.

I left the conversation on a fairly good note - these days I feel like if we are really communicating well I want to stop there, you know?

I'll try and talk to him again later. I hear him say that we have different goals. That I want us to be star crossed lovers and stuff and that he wants to be close friends. I think it's more a matter of our goals being the same, but our way of wording it being differently. I wish he would come here and post, so I could get his side of the story 

I know i'm not perfect, he says he's been walking on eggshells too. I'm willing to change - perhaps he's willing to meet me halfway? 

Can't we be close friends AND in love?


----------



## dcrim

Yes, girl - you ARE perfect!! He's the one that's fu.ked up!  

Yes, friends and lovers...that's the way it's supposed to be.


----------



## Rhea

Yes you can be friends and lovers. That's exactly what you want. That's exactly why I'm confused. My husband and I are "best friends" and we have great sex AND we're getting divorced. THAT is what I don't understand 

As long as he keeps talking girl, but the craziness needs to stop and he needs to make a valiant effort at doing so and keeping it in check. Depression takes constant work.


----------



## snix11

Friends and lovers... he feels that is asking too much of any mortal male. He can't give that to me, and understands that is what I need to be happy. 

I'm just not sure why he feels that is out of reach? We were, have been before - he didn't see it as a burden then, why now? 

It's officially been three months since we had any kind of sexual activity. He doesn't even look at me any more, even tho now that I'm losing weight everybody else does. All his friends say how great I look. But he's killed the part of himself that looks at me that way. 

Maybe it's because he thinks that my losing weight is just more 'manipulation' on my part? Somehow he thinks my getting a nice haircut, buying clothes that fit and look good, having a good more confident attitude is actually some super secret plot on my part to 'manipulate him' and 'control him' into loving me? 

It does make me sad that the one person in the world I'd like to CARE what I look like and think i'm sexy and cute thinks i'm ugly, nasty and not worthy of his attention. But I try to just keep plugging on - I worked too hard to get out of my own depression to slide back now because he doesn't like me anymore.

I just wish all this hard work was appreciated! At least the kids compliment me and tell me i look great


----------



## dcrim

I think you're beautiful! Keep going, girl! If he doesn't like it or doesn't want it, someone will! I would!


----------



## DownButNotOut

Hang in there snix. You're awesome in my book.

I honestly think that he can't do what you want him to. At least not without professional help. The more I hear, the more I think his problems are beyond his ability to fix, or yours.

And yes...friends and lovers is the idea! It is not beyond the ability of a normal (mentally healthy) man. A friend, a confidant, and a lover. That is what your spouse *should* be. (IMO)


----------



## Sandy55

Snix you said:

"I told him that I am happy to work on me and us, but that i need INPUT. if he wants me to change, he's going to have to tell me what he wants changed! if he wants me to work on us, I need to know what he thinks we should try or that he would like to try."

I don't know why you keep trying to get sense from your dh. You keep thinking you are dealing with a *sane* person, but you clearly are not. He is either not sane, or he is manipulating you to the nth degree.

What I see - and I have read many, many of your postings here, is a man who is trying to FORCE you to pull the trigger and you won't pull the trigger because you think you need to "save" him or wait for some financial thing in February. 

Well, in Texas, if you are not working you are going to get three years of spousal support if he is working.

What I also seem to be seeing, (and anyone on here who wants to help me see it differently, are welcome to add their two cents) is that if you are not playing the martyr, then you are doing a pretty good imitation of it.

IF your dh is so depressed and has such issues he would not be holding down a job, and making the decisions he has obviously been making. I also see you being an enabler, you are enabling HIM to manipulate you and you let him take up so much of your mental energy with your FOCUS on him! 

I would not wait until Feb. I would find an attorney and get some distance from him and work on yourself. You need to find out why you are playing a martyr here. There is no reason for you to keep putting up with this horse-hocky. It is BS.

You make so many excuses for him....and then you just keep putting up with his _*garbage*_. If you draw the line the ball will be in his court, and leave it there.

I don't see you as being as "strong", I see that as playing a martyr. None of us on here are doing you any favors by continuing to not tell it like it really IS, YOU DESERVE a LIFE. 

Now GO get it and leave his loser ass behind.


----------



## recent_cloud

Sandy55 said:


> What I also seem to be seeing, (and anyone on here who wants to help me see it differently, are welcome to add their two cents) is that if you are not playing the martyr, then you are doing a pretty good imitation of it. QUOTE]
> 
> i hope it's acceptable to add two cents if one agrees.
> 
> welcome to the chorus.
> 
> i do disagree with one point though: snixx is strong. she just holds her marriage to a very steep curve to finis, so steep as to imply denial.


----------



## recent_cloud

mommy22 said:


> I have held my tongue on the subject for awhile. I've been waiting for others to point it out, but all the signs point to an affair.


well, i thought i had it covered:

"are you becoming more suspicious of his rather odd new habits...sitting in the truck in the driveway...wearing his good cologne...leaving for work 4 hours early....

although the obvious 'then' to the above 'ifs' would be devastating, it would also pave the legal way out of your situation.'

andand snixx did agree that the legal consequences would be favorable to her, so i thought she understood what i tried to say with sensivity and tact.

but as with many aspects of the drama that is snixx, many dimensions and events that shape her world fall by the wayside when they don't easily fit into the world, or marriage, according to snixx.

my apologies to john irving for obvious reasons (well maybe not..he authored 'the world according to garp) and to snixx for talking about her in third person. i intend no disrespect.

wanna pet my frog? :bounce:


----------



## recent_cloud

i wasn't trying to correct you, mommy.

well, i guess that is what i did.

maybe i should say i didn't mean to, that the important thing is that the issue is raised and raised again if need be.

you have, however, made my frog sad.

because of you he no longer jumps with childlike joy.


----------



## snix11

oh go soak your frog 

Yes, i have confronted him about an affair. No he is not having an affair. As strange as that sounds. 

After confronting Webster on the subject just to make sure, no, I don't feel I am being a martyr. I understand that what I'm going thru isn't optimal. I know that due to things outside my control (see earlier posts) It is unlikely I will leave until Feb. These things have nothing to do with Mr. Z. Also, I gave him my word I wouldn't kick him out. I don't give it lightly and don't feel I have reason to break my word. 

Sandy, I do work. Please look thru the posts. Spousal support would not be given (nor asked for) in my case.

Yes recent - I did hear you the first time, tactful and frogless tho you were. I'm not stupid, nor being a martyr, nor being a drama queen. I'm trying to understand his behavior so I can learn to deal with it. 

As for his mental illness - other than depression, he doesn't go around chewing wallpaper or anything that would suggest him being mentally ill. He looks perfectly normal to his friends and to the world. He just looks as if he is distant from his 'wife' which he is. The world at large does not see what goes on behind closed doors. The people on this forum do because I have shared my part of it with them. 

I realize it's quite possible his take on our relationship would be quite different, if he ever decided to share it with anyone. I'm guessing because he does not care to share it with me other than in bit and pieces that he sometimes denies afterward.

I did get some good (possibly useful, not happy) information from him the other day - i'm just digesting it and trying to see his side of things. 

Yes of course it looks like he's having an affair. No, he's not having an affair,despite all his actions pointing otherwise. He just wants to be only 'friends' right now, can't be emotionally responsible for me (still don't know what that's about) and is flip flopping back and forth as to when he is leaving. 

Yes, some times I feel like he is doing everything he can to 'push' me to pull the trigger on our relationship and just kick him out. But unlike soccerman, I do not feel that a fit and losing my temper makes me a better person 

I don't mind input - albeit some of it is misinformed. I do work, i'm not being a martyr and he's not having an affair. These three things I'm sure of, tho most of the rest of this mess eludes me.

Any other questions?


----------



## snix11

Recent, snix has only one x, please inform your frog


----------



## snix11

He also told me that it seems like I'm not trying to fix us, that i'm just trying to manipulate him into loving me and making me the center of the universe.

That's a pretty powerful statement, don't you think? I plan on asking him about it tonight to see if he can elaborate on it a bit. How does he feel I'm manipulating him? What would it look like to hm if I were working on me or us? 

Why does it bother/anger/scare him for us to make each other the most important person in our lives? isn't that what spouses are supposed to do? And if not, how does he see spouses? What is there role to and for each other?


----------



## snix11

I'm Sooooo depressed today. I hate this... trying to shake it.


----------



## DownButNotOut

*hug* snix

hey! you could come up here and beat some sense into me. That'd make you feel better.


----------



## blondegirl

snix11 said:


> I'm Sooooo depressed today. I hate this... trying to shake it.


Snix-Im sorry to hear that your feeling depressed. But cheer up life is great!! Go out and enjoy some of your hobbies today!


----------



## dcrim

Snix -- (((*** HUGS ***))) (and a little <tickle> too!)


----------



## snix11

DC, tickle me right now and I'm liable to rip off your arm and shove it down your throat. 

I HATE being depressed. I HATE crying, I hate showing weakness. Mr Z sees it as the ultimate weakness, crying. 

He asked me today if there was anything he could do. Yeah, start acting in a manner befitting you. I know you can't control how you FEEL about me or us, but you can control your actions. You promised if we were sleeping together you would treat me as if I was your woman, and be affectionate - you promised just a few things, but don't follow thru, even tho you have them taped to your desk where you can see them every day. Just how to you expect that to make me feel? 

Would it kill you to be genuinely friendly? Would it hurt your pride to be loving? If you wait till you feel loving or in love to act that way, you will never get there. Actions make feelings too, not just the other way around. 

Yes yes, I know. You don't want me anymore. You don't want us. You don't want to love me. I'm no longer worthy of your love. I don't know what I did, and you say you can't (won't) define it either. All you know is that you are 'sorry' that I'm feeling bad. Well damnit, if you are truely SORRY for stepping on someones toes, heart, life... move a little to the ****ING left and get off their toes!!

It's an action, NOT a feeling. 

But if you really don't give a ****, stop telling me you do. If you really do, start acting like it. Be affectionate, caring, loving. Snuggle me at night. Ask me out on dates, play games with me - hold me when we watch a movie. Start paying back some of those 100's of orgasms you owe me! Lets at least finish the MF program so I can have some closure on that. Please?? Because you being here, day after day - coldly caring for me when you have closed off the part of you that truely cares is just hell. Nobody should have to put up with this, and certianly you should NEVER do this to someone you claim to care about. 

But no, what I said to him when he asked "is there anything I can do" was "I don't think so" 

The rest of it may have been by highest truth, but he would say i'm attacking him, manipulating him, blah blah blah. I even get out of my dresses when he comes home and put on old jeans and a t-shirt so he doesn't have to feel 'manipulated'. Argh. 

There is no where for me to go - I work in our bedroom, he comes home at night and loves on the kids and is polite to me. It's bad enough seeing your ex once a year at some public function - but imagine if you will the pain of seeing them EVERY DAY - done with you emotionally, done with you in their heart, quizzical at your pain, and not really giving a **** either way about you. Then put yourself in bed with them every night, some nights them asking you if YOU need a snuggle, then holding you like a dead rat. Or just rolling over and pretending you don't exist. Or worst of all, saying 'goodnight' with cold dead eyes. 

No wonder I don't sleep much these days.


----------



## snix11

DownButNotOut said:


> *hug* snix
> 
> hey! you could come up here and beat some sense into me. That'd make you feel better.


I"m on my way... got an extra kendo suit? no? i'll bring my noodle swords...


----------



## snix11

He asked me if I wanted to go play pool with him tonight. Just like that. I'm... in shock. 

I said yes, even tho parts of me were SCREAMING no... I didn't even grill him on WHY he was inviting me. I'm just kind of numb. 

Wha?? huh?? why?? but... I have vowed to put all my questions on hold and just enjoy myself.


----------



## Sandy55

snix11 said:


> oh go soak your frog
> Any other questions?


Well, since you asked:

Why you deflect every logical piece of advice on here? 
Why you make *excuse after excuse* for your dh?

You appear to be a compassionate and loving person. You appear to be a good mother. You appear to be a woman many men would want to love as she deserves to be loved. 

Yet you continue to make excuses for his behavior. IF he were clinically depressed he would need to be admitted and treated. IF he were really depressed you should have him evaluated and committed, you could do that IF he were truly depressed.

What are you AFRAID of, Snix? Are you AFRAID of the possibility that he likely may not love you or want you? 

I think the reason you are on here seeking an answer is because the answer is right under your nose and you don't like the answer so you keep looking for another less painful one.

Am sorry if I come across harsh, but you need a kick in the butt. And if it takes one, I am willing to do it to get you LIVING again!


----------



## sisters359

I cannot figure out why you believe him when he says he isn't having an affair. I cannot figure out why you'd want to continue a marriage with someone who has been like this to you. He sounds weak, cowardly, and manipulative. 

What is so awful about forcing him out and being on your own? What is so awful about forcing him to make a decision to fish or cut bait? What could be worse than this, for you and your kids? The world isn't such an awful place--you work, you already do pretty much everything for the kids. What on earth would you be losing, other than this LOSER, if you shed him from your life and your list of responsibilities? After all this, you will never have back what you had before (if that's the hope you are clinging to), you will never have the same faith, love, and trust--well, you will, if you find someone new who hasn't destroyed the faith, love, and trust you once had. Please, do yourself and your kids a kindness and make him go, now. He has absolutely no reason to change as things are, and it's so wrong to keep everyone in limbo like this. Your kids will suffer from this more than from a clean and amicable break; they know you are both torn and tortured and it hurts them. So use that and give him his walking papers, or just change the locks and put his stuff on the lawn. That'll wake him up, one way or another. And he does not deserve anything more, at this point. 

Maybe, just maybe, throwing him out will get him to realize what he'll lose if he loses you. Don't hold your breath, but if it helps motivate you to take action, use it. And if it doesn't motivate him? Well, you just saved yourself and your kids god knows how many days, weeks, months of living like this. To hell with the fact that he doesn't want anyon else to know. He has absolutely NO business asking that of you!!


----------



## dcrim

Dang, girl...it was only a little tickle! But if would make you feel better, you can have my arm...you'll have to aim for me, though.  

I hope you had a good time shooting pool! Maybe one right up his...uh...hmmm....

(((*** HUGS ***))) anyway!


----------



## snix11

Good morning 

Well last night was interesting. As I was wallowing in my misery he asks me to play pool. I'm like WHUT?? but I said 'ok'. Then we all get into a family tickle fight on the bed.

He said that last week he read parts of this forum. His remark "No wonder everybody hates me there, you paint me in such a bad light!' 

It's true that you guys only hear one side of the story, but I do try to be fair, and I almost ALWAYS stick up for him. I asked him "what parts of what I said were untrue" 
"that's not the point" 

Oh. I see  Anyway - he says he is NOT having an affair, and he should be the one to know. And the rest of you can go pound sand for thinking he was. He wore the cologne to work because he didn't have time for a shower and only had dirty uniforms (I stopped doing his laundry a while back) He says he leaves for work to avoid traffic. This morning he left an hour later than usual. 

For what it's worth - I do not believe there is someone else. But for lots of reasons, not just those stated above.

Anyway - pool was nice. Nothing special. I knew he didn't want this to be a 'date' so I made sure I did not dress up, no makeup, no jewelry, old ill-fitting jeans and an old t-shirt. I didn't want him to feel 'controlled or manipulated' as he puts it into loving me. 

He paid, which was nice. He made several comments that might have been considered sexual, but hey, this is pool. He talked about my nice 'rack', wiggled the pool stick behind me when I was taking a shot, bumped me with his butt going past me etc. I think he only did it to make me smile, not because of any actual interest. On the way home he said he asked me out to get me out of my 'funk'. 

That was also the time he mentioned the cologne. I asked him where he learned about my concern about his cologne, he said from the forum I post to. I invited him to post also, it seems unfair he has all this intel on me (and my feelings) without me knowing a damn thing about him and what he's thinking and feeling. Also, he deserves to get his side of the story heard. 

When we got home, he ended up spanking the 9 yr old. That's the only time in the three years we've been together he's done it. Yes he deserved it, no I'm not going to go into details. He's fine. He let me know before he did it, pretty much got my permission. After he was upset about it but I reassured him that I trust his judgment. That's a HUGE thing for us - long story there. 

When we went to bed, he gave me a hug. then pulled me in for another one, even warmer than the first. A huge change for him and a very positive thing. I've been telling him, actions will change your feelings! Going out, playing pool, putting for the effort to help me laugh and be in a better mood all of this breeds good feeling towards me. 

Actions beget feelings. He just thinks he has to FEEL loving towards me before he acts that way. Silly man. 

Anyway, off to work - have a wonderful day everybody


----------



## DownButNotOut

It sounds like a good evening.

You know... Actions before feelings is a very male thing. And very true. Many men are "doers", and so by doing feel their self worth rise, and following that, their feelings rise. Acting loving results in feeling love. 

It's good that he is reading this, even if he didn't post. I'm sure he has misread your actions. Maybe by reading what you have written here, unguarded, he can see you in a new, more positive light.

You didn't mention depression though. That has been brought up just as much as an affair. He should still be seen by a specialist, and seek treatment if the diagnoses is confirmed.

And finally...don't get your hopes too high, snix. It's still a bumpy, rocky, roller-coaster ride ahead. One nice night out won't change the world. (sorry to be mr grumpy gus this morning...guess I'm down a bit today myself).


----------



## snix11

Down, thanks for the input. I have NO illusions that last night is some magical thing that will suddenly make him see what he's doing to himself and us and change all of a sudden. 

It did show me he can be nice, sweet, loving when he puts his mind to it. Even if last night was just because he was feeling sorry for me - as I was depressed. He has a huge history of being SUPER nice to me when I'm worried, depressed etc. I just wish he would put forth the same effort when I'm happy!! It sets up a weird dynamic when he's only that loving and nice to me when I'm sad.

I don't want to have to go around being sad just so he'll be nice to me! I can be just as much fun when i'm happy too, dangit 

He knows he's depressed. He said he wants to work thru it himself. I'm happy to get him to a doc if he wants it. But I can't force him to go.


----------



## snix11

flip. flop. flip. flop. 

I think another TALK is coming tonight. Our lack of communication is crazy making. 

So last night we take the 10 yr old to kareoke. We had fun, he again suggested I drink (almost always a precursor to sex with him)

we get back and he lays on the bed, spreadeagled on his stomach. It was really hard for me to resist him! But I know he said he didn't ever want to have sex with me again. So I just went up and kissed him on the shoulder and said good night. So he heaves this BIG sigh and crawls under the covers. I was supposed to do something? what?? How am I supposed to know when he wants me to be sexual and when he's going to reject me??

So i go into the office to cool down - I feel like i screwed up big time by not responding to his naked body sprawled on the bed. I come back in a few minutes, get into bed and try to rub his shoulder. but he shrugs me off. ARGH. so he was just planning on rejecting me in the first place? he was mad at my failure to jump him the first time? what?? 

So no hug, kiss, or anything. 

Later on that night, he lets his foot touch mine in an affectionate way. Well MAKE up yer dang mind! I finally had enough and got out of bed. My typing woke him up and he stomped off to the office.

When the baby woke up, he lay down on the other side of us and snuggled the baby and said how much he loved him, while holding my hand. He snuggles the baby again, while putting him on my naked chest and nuzzling him. He leaves for work, giving the baby kisses and "i love you's' and just says goodbye to me and hopes I get some sleep. 

Then he calls me at 10am to see how I am and is all friendly.


----------



## snix11

gosh, I just realized I have no idea what i'm even going to say or ask. 

What have I asked that hasn't been asked before?

Are you serious about leaving? why?

Do you want affection / sex from me? when? why? how?

You promised to be affectionate with me if we slept together. I'm not feeling it, can we work on that or would you prefer to sleep somewhere else?

While you choose to still live here, what can I expect from you in the way of treatment, behavior, etc?

Maybe I'm just being unreasonable expecting a real answer to these. Whatever he's upset about, whatever he's feeling hopeless about with regards to us, I can't seem to reach him. 

I'm just trying to know what to expect so I know how to act!


----------



## dcrim

snix11 said:


> ...
> But I know he said he didn't ever want to have sex with me again.
> ...


Dang him all to heck and gone (you know what I want to say but got to watch the censor  )! That is unconscionable! 

For the gas money, I'd shove a bundle of barbed wire up ... no, won't say it! WILL think it, though! 

Girl, I know you love him...but COME ON FEBRUARY!


----------



## snix11

Look... whatever I did wrong, I'm just hoping that between now and February he'll let me know and figure I'm worth letting me make amends for it and become the woman he hoped I was when he moved in.

If somehow it's something he is feeling guilty about, then hopefully I can show him that I love him anyway, warts and all, problems and all - and forgive himself for it. 

If not, if I'm deemed to be not worth the effort, then so be it. But I have to try. All I can do is my best, which I'm doing my darnedest to do.


----------



## Sandy55

Me thinks me nauseous. 

SNIX, what PLANET are you on???? 
Earth to Snix....:scratchhead:


----------



## dcrim

LOL, Sandy! 

I've talked with Snix a bit. She is doing the best she can under the circumstances. And she will never have to say that she didn't give it her all, her BEST try. 

I think everyone here has a good idea of what's going to happen. I do truly wish things get better for her. 

Heck I'd love to give her a hug...I'd love to give everyone a hug! Unfortunately it's up to her...

BTW, Snix... (((*** HUG ***))) ... you didn't do anything wrong! You just loved someone who won't/can't reciprocate...sigh...


----------



## recent_cloud

Sandy55 said:


> Me thinks me nauseous.
> 
> SNIX, what PLANET are you on????
> Earth to Snix....:scratchhead:


oh i do admire your use of emoticons and encourage you to use more.

i love color and cartoon.

may i offer a suggestion: pop some popcorn and enjoy the show that is snix(x).


----------



## dcrim

Snix isn't a "show"...she's trying to love and be loved (like we all are!). Unfortunately, it isn't happening as she wants it to (through no fault of her own, and she's trying mightily!).


----------



## snix11

Well I almost chickened out on the talk. It's SOOO hard for me to bring anything up these days. 

Finally I asked - did you give any thought to us finishing up the Marriage Fitness program? 

He gets silent for a moment and looks pained. I wait. He said, yeah, we can do that. I asked him why he looked pained. He said because he's not sure what will happen. I asked him what he was afraid of, or if he would prefer not to finish it if it makes him uncomfortable. He said, no, it's ok. Huh, go figure. 

We both talked about how it helped us finally be able to talk, which we have lost lately. He said he would like to have that back (oh so would I dangit)

At one point in the conversation I said - well it's not much of a worry because nothing will change no matter what right? He said, I didn't say no matter what you did. "I know, it's just the way it is. You are moving out no matter what happens between us in the next few weeks or months." 

He got really really quiet. (strange, I figured he would just agree and we would go on) I asked him if that statement upset him, because I was under the understanding 'that's just the way it is, our relationship is over, and you are just waiting to move out, right?' This seemed to really disturb him. Not anger, just deep thought. (why?)

He said he was thinking about it. (well, ok. I thought it was all decided)

He also said he felt we were still 'married' until we moved out. Hmmm. He was still lost in thought, deeply, so I didn't press him on what he thought married people should act like (since he said we were and I don't feel we are acting like it) I'll save that for another day. 

We ended on a positive note, and he was affectionate and almost playful in bed. First night of good sleep for both of us in a while.

No, I don't have any illusions about everything being fixed, or even getting fixed but his Custer decisions don't seem to be sitting too well with him these days. Good. They shouldn't.

DC, thank you for your support. I know the 'kick the bastard to the curb' is the popular 'do it or we will call you names and be derisive toward you and belittle you' game these days. That's ok  

You have talked to me the most, you know my situation better than most. Since I can't leave for a while, I figure I might as well make the best of it. Not to fix this relationship, but to be strong for me and for my next relationship. 

Sandy, don't hold back, tell me what you really think!  lol. I know he doesn't love me or want me. Why would I be afraid of that? I just don't know the reason. I think this kind of dumping and not leaving deserves at least an honest answer. 

You can make fun of me all you want sandy and recent, but do you have ANY idea how strong you have to be to be gracious under the kind of fire I'm getting from him, you etc? It's definitely making me a stronger, better person. Very very little rattles me these days. After putting up with this kind of treatment with as much grace and love as I can muster - everything else (being sued, losing the house, no ac, no money, blackmail from my ex, getting made fun of for trying to be as kind and loving and understanding as possible) it all seems like small potatoes.


----------



## DownButNotOut

drugs snix...get that man some frikkin anti-depressants. He ain't gonna work through that depression himself. (I know...you've tried...I had to vent though)

Dang it...last night was pure man-cave time for him.

Those pauses...he was retreating into his cave. You shocked him (good). Although... when he said "I didn't say no matter what you did."...I think you missed a golden chance right there for a "Oh? It's what I thought I heard...if that isn't what you said, then what did you mean?". 

But the pained looks...the silence...thought...lack of anger... That all sounds like the depression is keeping him in a state where he can't see his way out to even know what he wants...let alone how to get there.

I'm still of the opinion that get his depression under control first...and then the rest would be clearer to both of you. I think that even if he wants to change...wants to stay...and wants what he had with you before...that the depression barrier isn't going to let him get there. It is going to keep him passive, insecure, scared, and (the most frustrating for you) noncommittal.

Hang in there! And regardless of him...keep on track for making yourself happy even if he refuses to come along for the ride.


----------



## snix11

I will down - and I'll talk to him tonight about his depression. I started on some anti depressants myself, but they made me all plastic and strange. Plus i didn't want to become dependent. He says he's working thru his issues by throwing himself into his work. He certainly loves his job. 

Yeah, he did seem shocked last night. No reason for that tho, it was his edict. But the way he flip flops, it is usually a good idea for me to check in and make sure the custer decision is still in effect


----------



## snix11

Well I'm not feeling nearly as sorry for him today


----------



## snix11

Man oh man, this was SO us two years ago:

_In fact the more I think about it, the more I feel that what comes across is that you are both insensitive to each other:

You don't care to cushion his nervousness.
and
He fails to make you feel cherished.

Why not try taking a deep breath and trying again with a fresh start? All that's happening at the moment is that you're going in circles._

We tried ignoring the problem, obviously that didn't work


----------



## recent_cloud

snix11 said:


> You can make fun of me all you want sandy and recent, but do you have ANY idea how strong you have to be to be gracious under the kind of fire I'm getting from him, you etc?


you have absolutely no idea what i've lived through, and yes i have a very good idea of how strong one must be in life from time to time.

i've told you so before, and i'm glad to say it again: snix (with one x) your are a very strong and tenacious person.

but, i still think you're bringing this misery on yourself because you're allowing this situation to just keep going on with no real change.

and that, for better or worse, is where some, including me, find dark humor.

and i know you'll counter with the latest update about how he didn't wince when you touched him or he smiled a little and thus hope springs eternal.

remember, hope does spring eternal, and that's a long time.

yeah yeah i know come february....

you have all of the logical pieces in place to justify staying exactly where you are.


----------



## snix11

Recent - despite how bad a life you have had, bet mine beats yours  Good old Fred... Yeah yeah, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger... but geeeez enough already!

If we were both just renting an apartment together or could sell this house, a clean break would be simple.

But legally i can't sell the house till my ex gets done with his nonsense, and I can't afford a divorce for the same reason (see earlier posts) and he promised not to leave till I was financially stable. I wonder if he knows how much that means to me?

What remains is the indisputable fact that we will be in each others lives weekly for the next 17 years, like it or not. 

What kind of guy leaves their wife and kids when there has been no infidelity, no abuse, no alcoholism etc? I've already said I am willing to change for him. Why isn't this enough? What did i do wrong?

Long as he doesn't screw me over, lie to me, hide things from me. we will be ok. 

Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned.


----------



## snix11

I know you all say he's looking for other women, having an affair, whatever. He says he's not, I trust him. 

He says he feels we are married now. I trust him. 

I know you all say he's lying to me and not keeping his promise to be open and honest. Still, I trust him. 

Why? Because he puts alot of store in being an upstanding guy. Because he said he wants us to be very close friends, maybe more. Because he says he doesn't want things to get ugly between us. 

He promised to keep me in the loop, not do things behind my back with respect to his leaving or plans or anything like that. 
He promised to be totally open and honest with me. 
He promised he would not leave until we both agreed I was financially stable and had a good working vehicle.

I trust him.

I am hoping that we can work out our problems so we can at least live as roomates for a while - and I think we are doing that well. 

He promised to do the marriage fitness thing with me. Wow I'm still amazed at that. I really am hoping that he will see that his idea that he can't make me happy is SO wrong! All he has to do is be loving, act in loving ways and I'm happy!

I will stick with him and by him as long as I can, that was my promise to him. I hope that he won't move out next Feb, that somehow God or something will intervene on our behalf and help him see how much I love him and am willing to change for him. I AM willing to work on me and us, I just need a little input.

Yesterday he even was playful - WOW, i miss that 

No, I have not totally given up hope for us. If he's honest with me, totally honest and open, we will make it. He told me never to give up on us, and I'm REALLY trying.


----------



## studlyc

Your just setting yourself up for more heartbreak later down the road. Procassonating the inevittable. You said it yourself that you are depressed. This definitely isn't a healthy relationship. And I think you know this.


----------



## dcrim

You hang in there, girl! 

I know you've already made a monumental effort. But even you plan on being done next Feb. Do everything you can until then, but ultimately it's going to be up to him what happens. 

You will be able to look everyone in the eye and say I did not just my best, but my monumental best!


----------



## Sandy55

Snix you can twist and turn all day long, call it what you want to. 

I am not ENABLING you. 

I am simply not going to say what you are doing to yourself is OK, because it is not.


----------



## snix11

did i say you were enabling me Sandy? I don't feel that you are, sorry if it came across that way. 

I don't think you totally understand the situation, and quite frankly you share many of my views on the subject - I'm pretty pissed off at how i'm being treated too!!!! I am just not in a position to act on them at the moment. 

I'm not sure what I'm procrastinating - If he leaves, I don't have a car, I can't make the mortgage payment much less anything else - and Mr. Z has promised to stay till i'm financially on my feet, a very upstanding thing for him to do under the circumstances. 

No, this whole thing isn't healthy, happy or productive. I'm not stupid, just stuck.

It just happens to be the cards I'm dealt at the moment. I don't have any family or friends to run to if I want to leave, I can't sell the house or move, etc. I have spent all my savings on Mr. Z, his kids and the business over the last three years and my credit is also ruined. So I couldn't even get an apartment if I wanted to due to my credit score. I have an ex who is the worst kind of #$(*$(( just itching for Mr Z to leave so he can go for the jugular, force me to sell the house, get the Texas courts to declare us 'still married' so he can turn right around and get another divorce and force me to take on his credit card debt. Slick move if he can manage it. And he's got the best atty in town to do it. Granted, because my ex also knows if I had enough money I would sue him for raping my retarded daughter (why i got the divorce) he had to put down a 75k retainer with his atty. But I'm broke, so he will probably get away with it.  What a mess.

So I'm trying to make the best of a bad situation. I feel sometimes like i'm sweeping the walk in a house on the outskirts of Pompeii, thinking, gosh I hope this stops soon - getting mighty dusty here!

If i can use this time he's still here to bring us closer, then I'm going to try to do it. If I can at least get us to where it doesn't turn into a very ugly situation, it will be better for our baby. I'm doing my part, he'll have to do his to avoid any ugliness. 

He sees his affection, time, attention etc towards me as perfectly acceptable and 'enough' - tho anyone that reads thru this (including me) would disagree that this would be the optimal way to treat your wife  

I don't understand why he says he thinks we are married at the moment, that part makes no sense to me. shrug.


----------



## snix11

I couldn't resist this one - I can at least laugh at my own stupidity


----------



## snix11

and for those of you following my thread, yeah yeah, i know - :rofl:


----------



## Sandy55

Snix: "*....did i say you were enabling me Sandy?*" 

I think you _misunderstood_ my post; perhaps I did not write it clearly enough:

I meant: 

I am not GOING to ENABLE you, _by going along with all your excuses for staying in a relationship that is clearly got you going batty_).

IF you ARE just staying until FEB for financial reasons, you would not be emotionally entrenched, you would quit being in the same bedroom, you would not care what he does and doesn't do. 

You don't have to live in separate homes, to emotionally detach so as to keep yourself from all these emotional ups and downs. The emotional ups and downs can be stopped. You would be in a better place emotionally if you would detach from him. Take a lofty position and just watch him, don't get caught up in him, so to speak. Let him flop around. But you don't flop around with him. 

You have to protect yourself from the roller coaster. 

If you are going to have to stay for financial reasons, then you just get off his roller coaster, Snix. Say: "Bzzz. My stop! I'm getting off...".

Then you do it and don't look back. 

As it is right now, you are playing a _game_, girl. And it is going to take you down.


----------



## recent_cloud

this thread is an interesting study in the myriad ways to make the same points.

having driven down the street you're now on, sandy, i agree with absolutely everything you say.

as a matter of fact, last night i composed a post touching on some of the points you touch on (which you've written with more clarity and elegance than i) and suddenly it dawned on me:

here i was again engaging essentially the same points that i engaged a month ago to absolutely no avail.

and i wondered, why was i doing this.

you helped answer that question when you mentioned 'enabler', and i thank you for that.

and the post that i composed last night...

i deleted it.

i'm running low on popcorn, brb.


----------



## snix11

lol  

ok, I get it now sandy... sometimes i ride the short bus too 

Yeah, just telling myself to not give a sheet anymore would be helpful. If it would work. Today i'm pretty neutral - so I guess that's halfway there.. or is neutral what i'm aiming for?


----------



## dcrim

hmmm, expect failure, but prepare for success anyway.  This keeps your options open.


----------



## Sandy55

dcrim said:


> hmmm, expect failure, but prepare for success anyway.  This keeps your options open.


That is called fence sitting. Emotionally draining.


----------



## Sandy55

snix11 said:


> lol
> 
> ok, I get it now sandy... sometimes i ride the short bus too
> 
> Yeah, just telling myself to not give a sheet anymore would be helpful. If it would work. Today i'm pretty neutral - so I guess that's halfway there.. or is neutral what i'm aiming for?


Insulated is what you aim for. So his ups and downs, his good treatment of you and his poor treatment of you get the same response in your own mind: "OKAY...". You don't ANALYZE the heck out of every move he makes, you don't question anything about him. Neutral is one part of it. But it goes beyond that in that you are able to not CARE. None. You live life as if he were not in it...pretend he is a temporary "guest". 

You get yourself to the point he does not take up ANY mental energy of yours. One day you realize you haven't thought of him for days....you don't wake up thinking about him, you don't go to sleep thinking about him, you don't think of him while you are in the shower. You avoid contact with him. He becomes nothing other than a piece of furniture you dust. Your furniture does not make you react. Nor should he.


----------



## recent_cloud

:bounce::bounce::smnotworthy:


Sandy55 said:


> That is called fence sitting. Emotionally draining.



:yawn2::smcowboy::soapbox::corkysm60::corkysm60:
yay


----------



## dcrim

Recent, I see you found your frogs...and it's multiplied!  Mitosis?  

My earlier post was supposed to be somewhat facetious... I just didn't have a tongue in cheek emoticon.


----------



## studlyc

Good Idea give up on all dreams and hope. Its not good advice for anyone on here except for your relationship. lol


----------



## snix11

Gee thanks study  See my poster above!

We did the MF thing last night. Man it's painful for him to go thru that... apparently his examining his emotions is like giving himself an appendectomy. 

He did mention he slept better last night. This morning was a very warm hug. Just observing, it wouldn't have mattered to me if he hugged me, was floating on the ceiling or yelled at me. I'm glad of the hug and good mood, but wouldn't have been crushed by the other. 

What we got out of it I'll post on my MF thread. Anyway, I'm again neutral this morning - not cold or distant just - neutral.


----------



## dcrim

Dang....I would't leave you neutral! I'd leave you with a smile....all day!


----------



## snix11

nevermind


----------



## dcrim

Oh, I wouldn't mind!


----------



## snix11

well hmm... why is he now trying to get me to stay here tonight? what did i do NOW? damn i feel like i can't do anything right these days.


----------



## snix11

Just an update - he was wonderfully attentive last night at the fights. Brought me a drink, was affectionate etc. Not even trying to figure out the why's anymore... just trying to take it all in. 

This morning I tried to be playful but that fell woefully flat, what a derisive look! ouch.

I've backed off and am leaving him alone. Guess he didn't want me to be playful. 

I've asked him several times what he would like to do today, he tells me he doesn't care. I suggested several things, again I got no positive or definitive responses. So I'll let the kids decide and let him spend the day with him. oh well, I tried.


----------



## studlyc

I watched the fights last night too!


----------



## snix11

i'm exhausted.


----------



## Mr. R

It sounds very much to me as if your husband is severely depressed. I have only a B.S. in Psychology, but he seems to exhibit the classic symptoms. Loss of interest in activities he formerly enjoyed, vacillating on important decisions, and so forth are what lead me to this conclusion.

Snix, from what you've told us of your husband and your ex, you have a problem choosing the men you let into your life. I see this with so many women; they tolerate behavior from men that men would almost certainly not tolerate in reverse. I realize if he is actually depressed, that's a medical condition. But if he won't seek help on a consistent basis, the responsibility to work on this is no longer yours. Some people will never accept any sort of help and it may well be that your husband is one such person.

Please get out of this for your own sake. You seem as if you're a woman that a mentally healthy man would deeply enjoy having in his life. Just promise us all that next time you allow a man into your life, your loser radar will be up. So many women (for whatever reason) tolerate men that mistreat them while decent fellows can't get a date. Peace and long life to you.


----------



## snix11

awwww  

Well, I truly believe with every fiber of my being that he's my soulmate. He may be sick, he may be depressed, he may be just being an a$$, and it could be, like he says, all my fault. 

But I made a promise to love him no matter what, forever and a day, and I take that VERY seriously. I've never committed to anyone the way I have to him. Just because he breaks his promise does not give me the right to break mine. 

He can leave me, he can dump me, he can love me. He can choose to be loving, cold, distant, cruel, mean, sexy, fun, sweet, passionate, playful, or whatever. These are his choices to make. 

While he chooses to remain here, I will do my utmost to be the best person he will allow me to be to him. Not only in the hopes he will love me again (itty bitty tiny hope flickering out like a used up candle tho it may be) like a woman and wife deserves to be loved - but also for me. If I can learn to endure this torture, to try and be loving in the face of coldness, anger, distance, apathy and such - then should he go ahead and throw me away anyway, I will be better prepared for the next man who might love me. I will know, without a doubt i tried my very best. And everything I can fix in ME right now, will help me in my next relationship. I know that I'm at least partially responsible for the problems in our marriage. I'm doing my very best to fix those. He can acknowledge those changes and fixes, appreciate them and choose to work with me to fix 'us' or ignore them. Again, his choice. 

Yes, I deserve to be loved. Yes I deserve to be treated with respect, tenderness and a man's best! I am doing my best. I'm not sure if I really have 'hope' but I'm controlling what I can, and that's me. And i'm really impressed and happy with how well i've done, how hard I've tried, how much i've forgiven and how much I'm still willing to try despite living on a 'pittance' of love. 

Feels like a really bad diet... one grain of rice a day?? lol


----------



## overitnolove

Snix, the making you crazy technique is a passive way of getting control. I suggest everytime he is like that walk away from the situation--it is th only power you have and also he needs councelling big time. Good luck x


----------



## snix11

*Yosimite sam voice* I hates this diet!!

Mostly because I don't gets no S.E.X. dangit... I miss passion, I've almost forgotten what foreplay is, I don't know if I'd recognize a hard **** if it bit me (do they bite? I forget...)
and most of all I miss that connected feeling, ya know? How does anybody last thru this kind of dry spell?


----------



## snix11

Can't sleep... worried about so many things... sigh


----------



## snix11

man what a night... got threatened and given ultimatums by the 17 yr old AGAIN. sigh. ended up driving him to the bus station 

I didn't lose my temper, but I had had enough. I asked him if he had plans on where he was going to live since he had told me he was no longer going to do any chores, felt within his rights to steal and use my credit cards whenever he wants and feels he has every right to do nothing but sit around all day playing the xbox - even when Mr. Z told him not to while he was watching the baby.

I hated to do it, but he's been stealing from me, hitting the little kids, calling me all sorts of things you do NOT call your mother - total disrespect etc. When it was his turn to do some baby sitting so I could grade homework for the three little kids (I homeschool them) I got "why don't you watch your own f*ing kid?" sigh. These were times we all share during the week and ones we all agreed to. His only chores are to do dishes, keep the dining room neat and he watches the baby from 9-5 M-F and is paid more than minimum wage for it. He graduated HS two years ago (early) and has been more and more sullen and unwilling to help ever since. 

The hardest part was not getting support from Mr. Z. It was like he was 'oh well' about the whole thing - it was tearing me apart and he could care less. He went to bed at 11, and left me up alone with the baby, who didn't sleep until after 2am. Not even a hug or anything from him about the whole ordeal. 

The 17 yr old was the baby sitter during the day so I could work. Without him, i'm in even more of a financial bind. It's a good thing hubby promised to stay till we both agreed I was financially on my feet. I do appreciate that - even if he wasn't with me with regards to having to kick out the teenager. 

God I HOPE I can trust him. He swore to me he wouldn't do anything behind my back - that he would be totally honest and open with me, let me know of any plans he has for leaving - keep me in the loop so I wouldn't be blindsided or surprised. Let's see if he's a man of his word.

Do you think it would be bad or pushy of me to ask him tomorrow if he intends to keep his word? I keep having this recurring dream of him showing up one day and just casually saying that he's moving out next Tuesday - and oh those promises to stay? well you should have known better because I did say I was leaving and I didn't really mean it when I said I would stay till you got on your feet. sigh.. 

I know they are just dreams, that I'm probably just paranoid - he works all the time so I don't see him out looking at apartments and stuff and not telling me, I can't really imagine him lying to me like that. I can see him moving out, but not lying to me and sneaking around behind my back about it. 

God, it's SO hard to trust him right now. But I really want to.


----------



## snix11

i can't shake this feeling he's been lying to me - hiding something from me * that he's not going to keep his promise. damn. god i need some reassurance from him right now.

come on girl, get yourself together. He promised. He won't break his word, he's an eagle scout for heaven's sake!

Just ask him tonight, ask for reassurance. He said he still feels like i'm his wife. He said he still wants to be best friends. He promised to be open and honest with me with regards to his leaving and not sneak around behind my back about it. Just ask him to reiterate those things, that is a reasonable thing to ask for under the circumstances, right?


----------



## humpty dumpty

Thinking of you snix sending a cyber hug !! keep yourself together xx


----------



## snix11

thanks humpty, trying to


----------



## snix11

Well the 17 yr old walked back from downtown - anybody that knows san antonio knows that is a LONG way. He got home around 5am, tired sore and emotionally ok. 

Thank goodness he was ok - I had been up all night worrying about him. 

He said that he was a little angry at me, but mostly about other things. He said he was just taking it out on me and it was easier to blame me for all the problems than to see them as they really were (man does THAT sound familiar!) but that there was nothing like a 5 hour walk to clear your head 

He said my rules weren't all that unreasonable and he agreed to stay until at least the Middle of August if I needed him. Thank goodness I can count on him and he's willing to commit to helping me when I need him  Gosh I really appreciate that. 

I need to have a money talk with Mr. Z tonight. I need to know what if anything I can count on, what if any bills are going to come that I wasn't aware of and when and if he is still planning on leaving or if he doesn't know yet or what. I cannot possibly plan to get out of this financial mess, and give him the freedom from commitment and me he insists on unless I know what my options are.

We have never discussed visitation, child support etc. I'm hoping we can work all that out equitably. It does bother me that he has all these plans for leaving but has not once brought it up. Was he thinking of just dropping that bomb on me on the way out the door or what?

I could be just jumping at bluebottles. Maybe it's not as bad as I think. I'm hoping that he will keep his word, stay till I'm financially stable and I get a car. I don't like being dumped, but it's almost impossible to handle being dumped when you never know when the next shoe is going to fall. 

I really don't need any more surprises. Especially financial ones!


----------



## blondegirl

Snix,

When are you going to start dating other people? Or have you thought about that?


----------



## snix11

blondgirl... I've thought about being loved, and romanced and treated well and such, most assuredly yes. Financially I'm such a mess I can't imagine anyone wanting to date me tho. I'm not much of a catch, as I've been repeatedly shown by Mr. Z. Too tall, too fat, to ugly too many kids. I just don't see it in my future, no matter how much I'd want it.

But since he said he still feels we are married while he lives here, I feel duty bound to stay faithful to him. Why else would he say we are still married? He sleeps in the bed every night with me tho. And he says he is trying to be kind, loving and affectionate.

He says he doesn't want to date anyone.


----------



## blondegirl

Snix,

In your pics you look way cute. I don't think you have anything to worry about when it comes to finding another guy.

But your right, if he still says your married than you have to stay true to that. I just don't want you to set yourself up for heartbreak in the end.


----------



## snix11

Thanks Blondgirl for the kind words. My self esteem is probably at an all time low right now 

Anyway, as for the heartbreak in the end, I'm not in charge of that part of it, he is. All I can do is my best and hope it's enough. 

He's so worried about me "manipulating him into loving me" by being nice and sweet and forgiving. I don't understand that part of it. He's so angry when I'm nice because he sees it as manipulation. I just don't get it. He'd like me better if I was a mean heartless, nagging bit*cH?


----------



## recent_cloud

i'm sorry you feel so poorly about yourself.

here's what i know about you:

you're smart, funny, hard working, love life, have a wonderful sense of humor and powerfully positive outlook, and yes i took a peek at your pic and you're downright beautiful.

and frankly a woman who loves and takes care of her children is a turn on to a lot of guys, usually the good ones.




snix11 said:


> He's so worried about me "manipulating him into loving me" by being nice and sweet and forgiving. I don't understand that part of it. He's so angry when I'm nice because he sees it as manipulation. I just don't get it. He'd like me better if I was a mean heartless, nagging bit*cH?



he probably is trying to demonize you so he can feel better about how he is treating you.

he feels guilty about what he's doing to you.

ps but you hang in bad relationships way too long for my taste. but you knew that. and i just had to say it.


----------



## snix11

Recent... psssssttt..... Frankly I don't like this situation either. Don't tell anyone tho... 

I think you are right on about your assessment of his deamonizing and guilt tho. What eludes me is why continue to act in a manner that makes him feel guilty when there are so many loving positive choices that would make him feel good rather than guilty? 

Good talk last night. I asked him if there were any changes I could make in me that would help us. At first he said there were some things but if he told me it would cause a huge fight. 

I said well, I can listen with an open heart and mind - or you could write it down or we could find a mediator if you'd like. He was quiet then for about five minutes (geeeeeeeeeeeeez that's a long time to watch a man stare off into space, wish i had brought my knitting) I mentioned the talk seemed be stalled and was changing the subject but he decided to take a chance and tell me. 

He said he didn't understand what happened Sunday. He did understand (thank the gods) that the whole thing started because I felt rejected. 

I told him that I fully own my part of the problem. That I have a very acute sense of rejection these days - in part because my husband was leaving me and I didn't really understand why, (in part because he has lost all sexual interest in me - I chickened out and didn't go there) and in part because for a year, when I asked if I was doing ok, if there was anything I could do better he always told me no, I was fine, we were fine, he was happy. And yet, he's deciding to leave anyway. 

When I went to be playful with him Sunday, and he simply turned away and went to get his coffee without any positive reaction, I felt rejected. He claims it was just COFFEE! He said "oh, I didn't repsond in the way YOU wanted me to? In the exact manner I was SUPPOSED to?"

Oh for heaven's sake. How can he not see that most human interaction is a series of actions and expectations? Hello should be met with a hearty hello, not a 'what the he11 do you want?' A hug with a hug back, a middle finger with a scowl or worse. of course there are expectations of behavior when you are playful with your spouse. At least that's the way I feel. Perhaps I'm missing something vital here?

Well, when you tickle someone - you want and expect them to giggle and have a fairly positive reaction. So yes, in that sense, you expect and want a certian action from someone. If they would cry or yell or just turn and walk away, you might be dissapointed or sad that what you thought was a fun loving gesture was met with less than enthusiasm. I didn't know how else to explain it. He sees it as manipulation if I expect and want him to giggle when I tickle him, I see it as a natural expectation. When he scowled and simply walked away without a positive reaction, I felt rejected and sad. He thinks that is crazy, that if he said hello and someone didn't hear him, that he wouldn't get all upset about it. Um, he didn't know (hear) I tickled him?? 

What was decided is that when I feel rejected I needed a way to ask for reassurance that didn't trigger his feelings of guilt and anger about it. He suggested that if he hurts my feelings that I just ask for a hug. Afterwards i'm supposed to say, I felt rejected but I feel better now, thanks for the hug. 

Something is off on that, but I can't quite put my finger on it. But if it will help, I'm all for it.

He reiterated that I have done what he asked of me to stay, that the reasons he's leaving are his personal private reasons that have nothing to do with me (oh yeah that makes sense) and that he promised not to leave until we both agreed I was financially on my feet. He expected that to be in two months. (really, how is that??) 

Here's what I think needs to be done to qualify for that:

1. My income steady enough that the basic bills are met - mortgage, utilities and diapers n such

2. I get a safe working vehicle that will hold all the kids

3. Visitation and child support are decided and in place. Standard visitation and child support is fine with me. Normally I wouldn't ask for child support, but I really need it these days. 

Who gets what stuff, what animals, etc can all be decided later. Part of me says look, you are ABANDONING ME AND THE KIDS for a STUPID reason, you get what you came here with - your clothes, your books, your furniture, your car etc. The other part of me wants to be fair and give him half of everything. 

The truck I bought him as a present, the big screen TV I bought him as a present, the new computer. Those are the hard ones for me to give up to someone who's leaving me when I need them most. Half the towels, dishes, bathroom stuff and all that I could care less about.

We have never once talked about visitation or child support. I would think he would want to get that out of the way soonest as I could see it might cause the most problems.


----------



## valium

I think if he is leaving you should ask for child support and make sure you get it. With regard to the other stuff it is all material stuff so can possibly be replaced at a later date but in any even would you want to keep it bearing in mind everytime you look at it you will think of him?

Good luck


----------



## snix11

Valium, every time i sleep in our bed, work at our desk, sit in the chair we used to snuggle in, etc i'll think of him. Every time I walk down stairs, get in the car, cook something, wash clothes, sit on the porch. etc. 

This whole HOUSE is filled with memories of us. At least he gets a clean break. Bastard.


----------



## DownButNotOut

Hi snix. Me again.  *hugs*



snix11 said:


> I think you are right on about your assessment of his deamonizing and guilt tho. What eludes me is why continue to act in a manner that makes him feel guilty when there are so many loving positive choices that would make him feel good rather than guilty?


Depression...clinical depression. I can't reiterate that enough. His actions will continue to be self destructive, and make no sense until his depression is controlled.



snix11 said:


> What was decided is that when I feel rejected I needed a way to ask for reassurance that didn't trigger his feelings of guilt and anger about it. He suggested that if he hurts my feelings that I just ask for a hug. Afterwards i'm supposed to say, I felt rejected but I feel better now, thanks for the hug.
> 
> Something is off on that, but I can't quite put my finger on it. But if it will help, I'm all for it.


what's off is that it allows him to do nothing. He doesn't have to take responsibility for his own actions, and now they affect you. The burden is 100% shifted to you. He hurts you...he doesn't have to worry about...YOU have to ask for the hug, and that's supposed to make you feel better. He doesn't even have to acknowledge that he hurt you, or feel remorse. All he has to do is stand there until you make yourself feel better. 



snix11 said:


> 2. I get a safe working vehicle that will hold all the kids


I'm still confused about this. I thought that as a household you have two vehicles, and another on loan to a friend. If he is so concerned about getting you on your feet before he leaves, he can cough up one of the cars for you. Even if it acts as a trade-in for a minivan or something.

What...he wants to leave...but he wants YOU to do all of the work to make that happen? Nope...it doesn't work that way.

What's next? You have to find him a place to stay, wash his undies, and pack his boxes? Does he expect you to drive them over and tuck him in too? Then take a cab back so you can leave him the car? uh uh...no how...no way.



snix11 said:


> 3. Visitation and child support are decided and in place. Standard visitation and child support is fine with me. Normally I wouldn't ask for child support, but I really need it these days.


Child support should be a no brainer. He has responsibility for the kids. (at least the baby, I don't know which others are his)

It isn't something you ask for. It is something he has to do as a father of his child. It is CHILD support, not ex-wife support. Your kid deserves the financial support of his(her?) father.

I'm still at the door of my own marriage, and if I do leave I would never in a million years consider trying to avoid paying support for my children. 

And I agree. Visitation, and support need to be agreed on before he leaves. In a fully legal written contract if possible.

Hang in there snix. You'll make it through this. I have faith.


----------



## snix11

DownButNotOut said:


> Hi snix. Me again.  *hugs*
> 
> what's off is that it allows him to do nothing. He doesn't have to take responsibility for his own actions, and now they affect you. The burden is 100% shifted to you. He hurts you...he doesn't have to worry about...YOU have to ask for the hug, and that's supposed to make you feel better. He doesn't even have to acknowledge that he hurt you, or feel remorse. All he has to do is stand there until you make yourself feel better.
> 
> 
> I'm still confused about this. I thought that as a household you have two vehicles, and another on loan to a friend.


Hi there! Thanks for the hugs...

Thank you, that was what was wrong with his 'solution' - I just couldn't put a finger on it. He will argue that since he didn't feel he rejected me, it's not his responsibility to make me feel better. How do I handle that?

Three cars - 1 camero, his. 1 truck (needs 1200 work - semi working, needs brakes, leaking coolant, etc) 1 truck (needs LOTS of work, lent to a friend)

None of them I would consider in good working order or safe. 
The suburban is still in the shop (since Feb) without a working engine. I could trade it and one or two of the trucks on a van or something. 

Child support will only be about 300 a month, so that won't be much help. I've been thinking about renting out a room, or getting someone to live here free in exchange for baby sitting so I can work yet another job.


----------



## DownButNotOut

Ultimately, he'd have a point. Don't rely on him to make you feel better. We've seen how well he performs at that job.  But, if he is going to live there, even as a roommate or friend, then common decency suggests that he have some consideration for how what he does or doesn't do affects the other people living with him. Of course, with his depression, he can't empathize like that. Depression won't allow it.

He would consider how a coworker would react to something he says or does at work, right? He'd consider how one of his buddies would take what he says, or does, right? Why should that be any different at home? 

At that point it isn't about what he feels. It's about what he did. Regardless of feelings...he should own up to it. And if he really cares about your feelings offer an olive branch. Even if it's an offered (frikkin' HIM offering!) hug, and a "I didn't mean it that way, c'mere".
------------
$300 a month is a pretty good dent in the food/diapers budgets.

lol...when 2 months comes, start renting out a room. To him! (because you know he's going to waffle)

$300 child support, plus his rent. That should help. 
---------------
And if he thinks 2 months is the time frame, then forget about MF. Sit him down with a ledger, and make him face the reality of what he's doing..every penny of what it means to split and move out, as well as having to commit to a visitation schedule.


----------



## snix11

DownButNotOut said:


> It's about what he did. Regardless of feelings...he should own up to it. And if he really cares about your feelings offer an olive branch. Even if it's an offered (frikkin' HIM offering!) hug, and a "I didn't mean it that way, c'mere".


That, or something like that would be perfect


----------



## snix11

Well I'm trying to be positive today - it's just a little hard with all these money problems. If I had a steady income it would be MUCH easier to budget! 

I really appreciated his offering to go get an outside job in order to help pay our bills. The 300 a week is a godsend right now. 

I had no idea it was going to lead to him announcing our pending divorce in just a few short weeks of getting the dang job. I had asked exactly that - are you sure you aren't just going to up and leave me if you get an outside job? Of course he said no, it's just to help out the family, don't be silly.

HA.

Ahem... about that positive there snix....:rofl:


----------



## dcrim

(((*** hugs ***))) to you, Snix! It's all I can offer...sigh...


----------



## snix11

I am going between trying not to be REALLY angry at him and just being plain wore out with the whole situation. 

My give a damn is cracked if not totally busted and my well of good feeling and hope and happiness looks a mite dusty today...


(U)(U)(U)(U)
(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)
(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)
(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)
(U)(U)(U)(U)(U)
(U)(U)(U)
(U)


----------



## dcrim

Nice one, Snix!!!!


----------



## Wornthin

Had a close read of your saga….and feel very much that I know this story…but from ‘his’ side.

So far I have only seen you ‘reinforced’ in your intentions and ideologies. If you want to break out of this ineffectual mindset (which you must concede has simply not worked) - might I try a different approach?

Feeling as though I belong on the other side (and you are definitely frustrated by a lack of communication) I am offering a possible insight into ‘his’ mindset. But you may not like it.


OK seems I am not liked

sorry - I am gone. I just felt like the zombie - and have been the zombie


----------



## Sandy55

Wornthin: :smthumbup: Excellent analysis from a very interesting perspective! BRAVO! :smthumbup:

Me thinks you are on the correct track!! :iagree: Understand exactly what you are pointing out.


----------



## snix11

Sandy..what did wornthin say? i didn't even see a response, much less anyone complaining about it. huh? 

if it's something from another perspective, i'm all for it.


----------



## Rhea

It looks as though he removed most of his post. Snix you're a tough girl you could have handled it...it might have been a fresh perspective too. Maybe he'll put it back.


----------



## snix11

That would be nice... honestly if i can handle all hubby is putting out, why would a fresh perspective that MIGHT actually get him to love me again NOT work??

It's not like I'm not willing to do ANYTHING to save us. 

Can i get a synopsis? A few key points? Executive summary? Can I buy a vowel??


----------



## Rhea

It was very long, I don't know that I can give you a synopsis lol...I think he took DCRIM's response as a whole and deleted it. But we all need here is honesty not bullsh*t and you never know someone else's view or suggestion may be just what it takes and yes you girl are willing to try anything  You don't take offense when someone puts you on point you take the compliments and what shall I call them? Opinions? Suggestions? Stating the obvious? I don't knwo what I'm trying to say but you take it in stride so I really don't think he'd have offended you at all.


----------



## dcrim

It was me...the poster looked to be blaming you, Snix and I took exception to his post (after claiming to have your whole thread). Let's just say it was strong enough that Chris removed it. 

I apologize to everyone for all the confusion.That includes you, too, Wornthin (if you do check back in). Something just hit a nerve and I'm sorry. That was highly uncharacteristic of me.


----------



## Rhea

ah sheesh D, you're always confusing people  I jest I jest. Trying to be funny so as my day isn't so miserable.


----------



## snix11

damnit DC... maybe I AM to blame... since it was your fault it got removed you now have to call me, on your dime and explain what he thought would help. lol 

Geez... 

Rhea... HUGS!! I'm here if you'd like to talk or vent or chat or whatever... let me get done chewing out DC first


----------



## dcrim

I'll have to check my browser cache tonight...I'm up to my eyeballs at work...


----------



## snix11

Grrrrrrrrr. lol.... can anybody give me an idea of what was said I can use?


----------



## snix11

Frankly I wish Mr Z would come on here and vent. I assure you whatever he would say, true or not, would be better than this silence and not knowing why he's leaving. 

That he is increasingly wanting to demonize me is becoming obvious, but at least I could start to see things from his side.


----------



## snix11

Had the custody, child support, visitation and 'stuff' talk tonight. All of five minutes, no anger, no argument. 

I would hardly call it a 'good' talk, but surprisingly non confrontational. Good to know we can finally discuss hard issues without fighting. 

Things were going so well I asked him - so, why don't we have sex any more anyway?

You could have heard a pin drop. The answer? 

"I have more important things on my mind"

Right.


----------



## dcrim

That's just crazy...


----------



## Sandy55

Why would you want to *have sex* with someone who:
A) Treats you no better than a pile of dung, and 
B) Is clearly not interested in keeping a relationship with you going?

A _normal_ person may have sex with a man like this ONCE but she'd be in the g.d. shower scrubbing the heck out of herself to get the "stink" off. 

You do not _love_ him, you are obsessed with this man. You are obsessed with the idea that you have the POWER to fix this man and make him love you and you cannot.

If I were a man, I'd not want to have sex with you, either! He does not want to sleep with you; you who has no self respect and you, who are his doormat. If you were a man and I had you under my roof I would be turned off by the self depreciating, martyr quagmire of pitty you wallow in, Snix!

You _*really*_ need to figure out why on earth you are not able to let go when you clearly need to move on. You need to be separating yourself PHYSICALLY (and mentally) from this nasty, degrading, toxic situation. 

You _*claim*_ you cannot have him move out NOW. I truly don't think that is the reason, you simply won't LET GO, so therefore do not look hard enough for a solution and use finances as an EXCUSE. 

He has no RESPECT for you. Sorry to say this, Snix, neither do YOU. You APPEAR to have no self dignity and no self respect for YOURSELF. This is the truly sad and heart sickening thing about your situation, Snix, is that we all care more about you than you care yourself.

You are CHOOSING to stay miserable, posting your self flagellating drama on here, under the auspices of "seeking support and help". 

YOU CANNOT MAKE SOMEONE LOVE YOU.

You need some serious help that can't be found here.

The poster here yesterday was not BLAMING you, as I recall, the poster was saying you are doing all this to yourself.

And you ARE. Your dh is your scapegoat, he is who you blame for your situation, and it is not HIM.

Your dh has made it crystal clear what he thinks, he could come on here and post his feelings all day long, but he knows no matter what, you won't hear him. That is likely the reason he is depressed...he realized long ago: 

Snix is out of touch with reality. 

OK, dcrim. Flame me. Flame the truth.


----------



## snix11

Sandy,

Yesterday you said that you would post the things the other person said that might be of use or insight? I'm still waiting on that. 

Glad you know what my hubby is thinking and feeling - I'm sure he'll appreciate being told what he's really thinking and feeling 

I'll show it to him, tho, perhaps you are right. 

Oh and I wasn't really expecting sex, but I was curious as to his comments he had made earlier about it. And hopefully it would lead to finding out why he's still sleeping in my bed! 

I understand he doesn't love me and is leaving. I also understand that he hugs me, calls me honey and dear, sleeps in the bed with me, is occasionally flirty and affectionate etc. My question is WHY act all nice?

I have told him over and over he's welcome to leave any time he wants. He was upstanding enough to say he would wait till I got a vehicle and enough income to pay my bills. Those are his choices, not mine.

Lets see - so according to you, I should have been a bit*h instead of being kind, loving and sweet (ie a doormat) and that would have solved everything. Well, nice guys finish last, yet again. Shrug. Live and learn.


----------



## dcrim

No, Sandy. I agree with you. I don't know what got me wound up about the other poster. 

Snix, maybe you two should sleep in different beds?


----------



## snix11

I suggested it several times DC.


----------



## MsStacy

Be firm Snix. You are a strong woman...do more than SUGGEST it!


----------



## Rhea

Yes, kick his a$$ out of the bed...PDQ ASAP whichever acronym you feel the need to go off of. Great he's sticking around to help you financially...personally I think he's sticking around for the "show" although he doesn't love you he does get some form of sick enteratinment from it. Use your strength we all know you're strong as you've put up w/this BS for much longer than most. Now balls up and use that strength for your own self esteem, value, and worth. 

Trust me I'm having to do it for myself and it's a long road w/many a set back. But I'm to the point now where I know that I cannot make my ex love me. I'll never know what's he's truely feeling, I can't say that he doesn't love me because some actions speak otherwise. But it's obviously not enough love for him to be w/me at this moment. Would I love to keep kicking and screaming and throwing the obvious or what I feel is the obvious in his face...yep. But fact of the matter is it isn't going to get me sh*t at the moment. Should said "ex" figure sh*t out one day the work load will then lie on him...but lets face reality here...the odds of that aren't too high.


----------



## Sandy55

snix11 said:


> Sandy,
> Yesterday you said that you would post the things the other person said
> ...
> ....I should have been a bit*h instead of being kind, loving and sweet (ie a doormat) and that would have solved everything. Well, nice guys finish last, yet again. Shrug. Live and learn.


1. The post never returned, as I mentioned could not elaborate without it. 

2. What you are saying is that having self respect, taking responsibility for one's self, and protecting one's soul from suffering is being a b***ch. You are saying that one should accept abuse and in fact be sweet, loving, and kind rather than saying "no more" then shutting the door on it.

3. People finish last by _rationalizing_ ways to _not run the race at all._


----------



## snix11

Friday he asked me if I wanted to go out. Took me to a movie then we played pool. Saturday was even better, we sang together for hours and even had a great time in bed. I'm just numb. I've stopped thinking for the most part, I'm just kind of cruising along in a daze. My whole life just seems like a bad dream I can't quite wake up from.

Yesterday was hell day for me - he was trying to make me feel better, I think. but what he said just leaves me feeling like I was just slapped. 

He had noticed I haven't been eating much - I said that food just didn't taste like anything these days. 

He said "wow, that's something to tell my Grandkids! I once broke this girls heart so bad she lost her sense of TASTE!" (yuk yuk yuk)

Maybe I'm being over sensitive... but that sure seemed like a cavalier thing to say.


----------



## SaxonMan

Yes, that was a very cavalier thing to say. Very hurtful too. I'm in a very similar situation as you as regards being the recipient of very hurtful things like that.

I also know that you're on a "hiding to nothing" about such things because the second you bring to their attention your feelings about the statement, you will immediately become the "whiner". "It was only a joke, etc..."

The bottom line is that he's not considering your feelings. If everything was good in the relationship, a remark such as that would be perfectly acceptable. When you're in the bad place that you are, the remark is not appropriate and it's insensitive.

I'm sorry.


----------



## sisters359

Hey, Snix, please don't confuse standing up for yourself with being a *****. You should definitely be sending him off with nothing other than what he came into the relationship with--think of your kids!! Any assets acquired jointly, you split. Otherwise, what was yours should still be yours. Gifts, leave to his sense of honor/justice.

I cannot help but think this situation is awful for the children. We all know that no matter what we do to protect them, they pick up on things. Standing up for yourself and refusing to put up with his lack of commitment would be in their best interest--do you have daughters? Do you want them to go through this, too? They will, if you don't teach them another lesson. 

Remember the Serenity Prayer; I think you could use it these days.


----------



## snix11

Sister, 

Right now I have no income. He's the only one working. I've been applying for jobs all over the place but nothing yet. Even tho he's only bringing in 1200 a month, that's 1200 more than I'm bringing in! 

The only girl in the house is his - a 10 yr old who calls me mom and whom I love dearly as my own. I'll miss her very much. Of course I don't like how I'm being treated, but I don't really have much choice in the matter. It's not like I can just go home to family or something.

We have 30k in debt on my credit cards, but that we both got things for. I haven't talked to him about helping me pay off those, but I'm sure he would if asked. 

He's being nice and helping me right now - by giving his paycheck to the the family. Without him, I would be on the streets in a month. He can do fine without me, me not so much without him right now. So right now, I'm kind of at his mercy and good will. I have no room or leverage to stick up for myself. 

At least he's not being cold. You can tell he's going to a great effort to be supportive tho he seems to be over me enough to make jokes about my heartbreak. I'm not sure it's that's to be commended or not. I'm sure something good will happen soon - I'll get a job, make some money, something. 

Good old Craig's list - I put an ad in for the horses yesterday and got two calls already. Looks like I got a good home for the border collie too. The other dog I'm keeping - he's my baby. We may be living together under a bridge somewhere, but he's loyal to the end.

He's called several times today to check on me - see if i'm having a better day and feeling better. 

He has his dr. appt today - hopefully to get some happy pills and get his prostate checked (he is NOT looking forward to that) He figures if he gets some prozac or some such he'll be able to quit smoking in two weeks. Hope his Dr. appt goes ok... I worry about him.


----------



## snix11

Decided to change my name to Scheherazade ... as I seem to be living one night to the next under the specter of sure and certain annihilation. *cue spooky music*


----------



## snix11

The doc gave him some anti-depressants and suggested vit E, and grape seed extract and a multi vitamin. When hubby saw me depressed yesterday he suggested I contact my Doc to see if the meds were 'not working'. What? I'm supposed to be cheerful and happy he's leaving and abandoning us? Sheesh.


----------



## snix11

He says he wants us to be 'good friends'. I don't get that.


----------



## snix11

His biggest complaint was that I was a bit*h and we argued too much. He says that is one of the main reasons we weren't working out. Over the last year, and especially the last six months, I pretty much killed any 'bit*chyness' that was in me - apparently with my self esteem and backbone too. I don't nag, complain, get mad when he does stupid things. I just pick up the pieces, fix his problems and try and be as nice as I can about everything. 

Neither of us handle criticism well - we tend to either lash out or more likely beat ourselves up way too much over small things. 

Even yesterday - I mentioned the thing he said the other day about the joke had hurt my feelings. He went waaaay overboard the other way and said "I was just trying to make you feel better. I guess I'll have to just not say anything to you anymore. Not make any jokes, censure everything I say" That made me feel like I was being punished for being upset about his callous remark. 

"Oh, you didn't like my joke? Fine, I won't ever try to make you feel better again". Oh for pete's sake! What's wrong with just hearing you hurt someone's feelings and saying 'oh gosh honey - that's not what I meant at all - I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Here" and giving that person a real hug? I mean it doesn't have to all be doom and gloom, but when you step on your spouses toes over something - I think one person has the right to bring it up in a nice way so that the other person doesn't do it again. Hug, sorry, end of story. 

He will bug me and bug me if I seem upset - till I tell him. And when I do - without blaming or raising my voice or anything - if it was something he did or didn't do that upset me, he blows it WAY out of proportion and starts saying that he won't ever do this or that again, how he always fu*ks everything up, how he's just a total looser etc." I always end up having to make HIM feel better for hurting my feelings and telling him it was no big deal. It just seems so upside down. 

Yes, I can tell him to leave, kick him out etc. He can't pay for the bills here and for his own place tho. I'd lose the house, the car, everything. I'd be on the streets in a few months, and with kids. That's just plain scary to me. I have no family or friends to move in with, no income right now and no hope in sight at the moment. I feel like I'm at his mercy. 

I feel like my only option right now is - don't make waves. Be nice. Don't upset him. Don't act mad or depressed (because he just gets mad when I tell him the truth) and just kind of try and act like he wants. 

In the mean time, do everything I can to get an income so I can support myself again. I spent every penny of my savings over the last three years on us. Now that i'm broke, he's leaving. Figures.


----------



## dcrim

Snix... (((*** HUGS ***))) I wish I could deliver them in person! 

I know you have to do what you have to do to hang on...and I know it sucks...but keep hangin on...


----------



## snix11

Oh - and a definition came to light yesterday also. He had said a few weeks ago that he would consider us married till he moved out. I didn't think to ask what he meant by that, I figured it was pretty obvious. 

When I asked him yesterday what he meant by 'married' he said respecting each other and being a good co-parent. THAT's what he thinks being MARRIED means? OMG!!! Sounds like divorced parents to me. 

So, I'm trying to figure out what to do. I can start going out, start doing other things with other people, but I feel weird about it. I always considered him to be my primary recreation partner, so going out and doing things with other people seems weird to me - like being unfaithful. I know, I know - he hasn't asked me to be faithful, he hasn't required me to ever be true to him. But to me, that is what being with your mate/spouse is all about. Putting their needs and happiness before your own. Plus, he hasn't gone out without me. Yet. And I just know, that's all he's waiting for. If I do, then it will be 'ok' for him to. Right now, I'm not sure I can handle the 12am call from the bar with him laughing in the background telling me to take care of the baby tomorrow because he's got himself a 'live one'. 

I just don't know I'm ready for that.


----------



## dcrim

Yeah...don't give him the excuse, girl. Once that door is opened, it will never close. 

I know you "want"...(ok, me too) but it's not the end of the world if you don't "get any" for a bit...there's a lot of life ahead...just hang in there. 

((** HUGS **)) (that's a little hug.  )


----------



## snix11

Well I don't mean sex DC (lord have mercy do you EVER think of anything else?  ) I mean just going out in general. Having lunch with a friend, going out to a movie, going camping. Anything. I just feel that if I do ANYTHING on my own - that will open the door for him to date.


----------



## sisters359

If you haven't been doing things with friends, then you should. Female only, if you are worried about opening that dating doorway. But everyone needs friends and every relationship can meet only certain needs--that's WHY we need friends. So buddy up with your girls for some serious fun, and enjoy yourself AS yourself, without worrying what every move or statement means. Lord knows you deserve it!


----------



## dcrim

hee hee...there's more to life than sex (no, it's not ALL I think about!! sometimes I think about food!  )?!?!? Wow...I wonder what I've been missing?  

I know there is a social aspect to life...dinner, movies, other things. 

I meant that there are many things that make life better, more enjoyable. Or more "fun" (not meaning sex!). And it's better if yoiu can share those things with someone. 

Yes, I "want"! But not just sex...I want a companion, someone I can love, someone I can share (the rest of my) life with. 

It ain't gonna happen soon...and I'm resigned to that... but it _could_ happen before I die.


----------



## snix11

DC... you will never ever ever convince me that you don't think about sex 24/7. *cough* That said, yes I understand what you mean.

Sisters - unfortunately all my local friends are all male. I have one female friend but she lives 100 miles away and just happens to be my hubbys' best friends wife. Not a good mix right now.


----------



## Rhea

Snix, for the sake of your sanity I can't wait until this hell you're living is over and done w/for you. You're DH is a master game player and just leaves you confused on the daily (as would I be w/his actions as well). 

I hope some resolution comes soon. How's the job search going?


----------



## dcrim

Ok, Snix...you got me!  I do. 

I keep a variety of sites open at work and at home. Not all of them I get to review every day, though. Why, shucks...most of the day...I'm on HERE!!  

But just simple sex isn't all it's about. It's FUN!!!  

But only with someone who also enjoys it.


----------



## snix11

Rhea said:


> Snix, for the sake of your sanity I can't wait until this hell you're living is over and done w/for you. You're DH is a master game player and just leaves you confused on the daily (as would I be w/his actions as well).
> 
> I hope some resolution comes soon. How's the job search going?


I hear ya Rhea... sigh...

It's going. I've applied to every hospital, large company, every temp agency, every ad in the paper and craig's list i'm qualified for. I am calling the temp agencies and head hunters in nearby towns also. I've applied to monster.com, job centers etc. I am putting out about 50 new resume's per day. I'm not sure what else I can do!

I too want resolution for this. This is just plain crazy making.


----------



## sisters359

Snix, that's just an excuse. Get out there and make new friends. Join a women's bowling league or something. No excuses this time. You need other people in your life! Women make for great friends--maybe in the past you have gravitated toward women who make the same assumptions as you (and make too many sacrifices for their men). Go in a different direction if you haven't found women you like in your usual places (and that's what I suspect, given that you don't have many female friends). You have nothing to lose, and this isn't about just "now," it's about creating other relationships and being able to do so throughout your life, no matter where you land. Let me know if you need more ideas--I'm always eager to brain storm. Just agree to choose ONE, no matter what--and to stick with it for at least 3 months, and see what happens. You can't make friends overnight, you know!


----------



## snix11

Ok sisters. I'll try. What groups/people can I meet/join with no car an no money?


----------



## snix11

I find myself today wanting to capitulate. AGAIN. Ask him yet again why he's leaving, find out the reason - fix me so he won't leave. 

I've changed so much over the last few months - but the better I get the more he hates me. what's up with that?

I have lost weight, I'm fastidious about my appearance, I'm taking care of my health (something he always worried/complained about) I'm being domestic, meal planning and cooking, doing his laundry and I'm being EVER so nice. Also, I'm willing to work on me and us (not just him) in any manner he says he would like to make him happy. I'm willing to either have sex or not, his choice and in any way that would please him. What's not to like?

Hrumph.


----------



## Sandy55

snix11 said:


> I find myself today wanting to capitulate. AGAIN. Ask him yet again why he's leaving, find out the reason - fix me so he won't leave.
> 
> I've changed so much over the last few months - but the better I get the more he hates me. what's up with that?
> 
> I have lost weight, I'm fastidious about my appearance, I'm taking care of my health (something he always worried/complained about) I'm being domestic, meal planning and cooking, doing his laundry and I'm being EVER so nice. Also, I'm willing to work on me and us (not just him) in any manner he says he would like to make him happy. I'm willing to either have sex or not, his choice and in any way that would please him. What's not to like?
> 
> Hrumph.


Snix: You are slipping back into "circle mode" around dh with this post. Look at the pattern of your posts. The people on here were trying to guide you toward "self" help meaning inside you; not "self"help = getting "him" back.

The posts seem to be like a rubber band that snapped back. 

Obsessed. You are obsessed with trying to fix yourself to meet what you think will SAVE your relationship. 

Focus on what YOU can do for YOU. No connection to dh at all. Think only about YOU.


----------



## sisters359

snix11 said:


> Ok sisters. I'll try. What groups/people can I meet/join with no car an no money?


Doesn't matter; just get to one meeting and find someone who lives close enough to haul you back and forth. Try these: Reading group, local library; PTA; a volunteer group (if you explain up front about the car issue, they may have someone to pick you up). Once you make more connections, you'll start making others.

Also, join an online forum for an interest/hobby you have. You never know who might live near by, and besides, it can be loads of fun. Just stick to females at first for more "personal" exchanges (like email or pm or chat), while dh is still around. Use your imagination and go through the phone book for your community to see what is already out there. Even if it isn't a perfect match in terms of your interests, it will get you out and about. You must be willing to ask for a ride, however, and don't make excuses! This is for YOU. Go for it.


----------



## sisters359

snix11 said:


> Ok sisters. I'll try. What groups/people can I meet/join with no car an no money?


Doesn't matter; just get to one meeting and find someone who lives close enough to haul you back and forth. Try these: Reading group, local library; PTA; a volunteer group (if you explain up front about the car issue, they may have someone to pick you up). Once you make more connections, you'll start making others.

Look for evening groups, too, so you can have the car he takes to work. No point in giving him total freedom while you have none.

Also, join an online forum for an interest/hobby you have. You never know who might live near by, and besides, it can be loads of fun. Just stick to females at first for more "personal" exchanges (like email or pm or chat), while dh is still around. Use your imagination and go through the phone book for your community to see what is already out there. Even if it isn't a perfect match in terms of your interests, it will get you out and about. You must be willing to ask for a ride, however, and don't make excuses! This is for YOU. Go for it. Where there is a will, there is a way. It's true.


----------



## snix11

Sisters - 

Sweetie. Honey. Forum darling ... are you SURE, are you Positive, are you ABSO-TIVELY certain that you want to say "where there is a will there is a way" to an already obsessive prone crazy celt? 

I'm pretty sure that such thinking processes are exactly what got me INTO this mess in the first place  

I DID do something for me - I done falled in LUV. anddddd the no good nick broke my heart. And continues to do unspeakable things in the name of kindness and mercy. 

I had a will and I found a way. And look where it got me 

Yeah yeah, I get it.


----------



## snix11

Sisters - 

Sweetie. Honey. Forum darling ... are you SURE, are you Positive, are you ABSO-TIVELY certain that you want to say "where there is a will there is a way" to an already obsessive prone crazy celt? 

I'm pretty sure that such thinking processes are exactly what got me INTO this mess in the first place  

I DID do something for me - I done falled in LUV. anddddd the no good nick broke my heart. And continues to do unspeakable things in the name of kindness and mercy. 

I had a will and I found a way. And look where it got me 

Yeah yeah, I get it.


----------



## sisters359

Hey, it takes one to know one! Why do you think I keep harping on this? I'm convinced I'll drive you to do something worth doing if only to shut me up! "Persistence" is my middle name.


----------



## Sandy55

Pretend he is GONE. He is gone. Flew the coop. Never to return.

WHAT would you do immediately after discovering him GONE?

Step 1: ?


----------



## Rhea

Hi...my name is Snix....and I'm a Zombieaholic

*Crowd says in unison....."Hi Snix" and hence a new found love and support is found. Those whom have been there and are trying to come back.

Yes honey get out a little you Ma'am after your countless hard work and effort deserve it


----------



## recent_cloud

damn running out of popcorn again.

this show is getting expensive.


----------



## snix11

lol recent 

Ok, OK, the rest of ya'll... I"ll go out tonight.. sheesh. 

I'll find SOMETHING to do. Been hot and cold here. I was in a GREAT mood, cleaning and stereo blasting (these boots were made for walkin by Nancy) when he came home from work. I was dancing with the kids and having fun. I greeted him with a HUGE "hi honey!" and a hug. he just looked at me, with kind of a frown and gave me this half hug conciliatory pat thing I hate. Then said a very subdued and kind of angry 'hi'. Then turned to the kids and said "OH HI LITTLE BOY!!!" and jumped on the bed wrestling and playing with the kids for 15 minutes.

Yeah, I get it. I'm chopped liver. sheesh. Made him his favorite dinner that nobody else likes - he had pouted yesterday over me not menu planning anymore. I asked if he liked it and he said it was ok. I mentioned he seemed to want me to menu plan again, and he said he was just 'kidding' about that. So I figured - screw this, and was getting ready to go back to work. 

THEN he comes up and gives me a real hug and asks me if I want to watch a movie with just him. WHAT? why?? puts his leg over mine while we watch it. uuuuh. huh? Then to bed and he's back to being cold when I tried to snuggle him. It's just too weird. If I don't snuggle him he asks me what's wrong. If I try to, he pushes me away or ignores me. Too weird for me.

So yes, I'll go do something tonight. Film at 11  or maybe Sunday if i have too much fun. lol!


----------



## snix11

Sandy55 said:


> Pretend he is GONE. He is gone. Flew the coop. Never to return.
> 
> WHAT would you do immediately after discovering him GONE?
> 
> Step 1: ?


1. Clean the house like I want it
2. change the sheets and blankets
3. Get rid of anything he left behind I don't want
4. walk around the bedroom nekkid again!
5. Throw a he's gone party for my mensa group
6. Invite ppl over for a backgammon tourney
7. Rent out a room for money
8. Sell everything so I can get a car

Stuff like that


----------



## snix11

Well, I got invited to a cooking class tonight. A friend and his wife invited me. I hope it doesn't cause problems here tho.


----------



## snix11

Went to go to the cooking class. Never made it there tho. Ended up playing partners spades with three other people. It was fun. It was nice to be treated like a woman instead of just a person. To be told i'm beautiful and desirable - the little niceties that go along with attraction But frankly, it just made me even more acutely aware of what I'm missing, and wondering why my H is no longer attracted to me. 

He's been on the 'happy pills' for five days now, haven't really noticed much of a difference.

He's throwing a party here for his friends today. I would imagine over Half of them know he's leaving me, and I'm really uncomfortable with all this. But I'll try and play the good hostess. 

Happy fourth of July everybody.


----------



## Rhea

Being aware of what you're missing is part of the grieving process...it sucks I know...because you know you're desirable...fact of the matter is that person doesn't specifically want to desire you at the moment


----------



## snix11

Man that just makes me sound like i'm feeling sorry for myself. Blech. Guess I am. 

I just can't seem to shake the idea that maybe, if I was just good enough, just SOMETHING enough he might change his mind and give us another chance. Yes I know, go ahead and flame me


----------



## Sandy55

Snix said: "It was nice to be treated like a woman instead of just a person. To be told i'm beautiful and desirable - the little niceties that go along with attraction..." But frankly, it just made me even more acutely aware of what I'm missing, and wondering why my H is no longer attracted to me"

In the above statement, the abnormal thinking (= unhealthy) is in red. The normal thinking (= healthy) is in green. What needs to be realized is that you have an abnormal thinking pattern hooked into your thinking _interpretation_ of what you are perceiving of your personal situation. This ABNORMAL pattern of thinking is why you are going round and round in a quagmire of despair. 

INSTEAD you must strive to retrain yourself to think as follows: 

"It was nice to be treated like a woman instead of just a person. To be told i'm beautiful and desirable - the little niceties that go along with attraction"... * Dh has his issues, I don't care what they are at this point but for sure, I am a woman worth having. Right now, I am going to enjoy this moment and not let HIM drag me down along with his sorry ass. *"

One should make EVERY attempt NOT go into the "But statements". 

But statements are conflicting and usually FALSE thought leaking into the NORMAL thought pattern. The original statement in GREEN is all you should think. When you hear your inner voice say: "But..." you choose to turn it OFF. Literally tell yourself "STOP"! Then find something else to distract your thoughts. 

Use a rubber band around your wrist with a snap to it when you hear yourself begin to follow a NORMAL thought about yourself with an abnormal "But" qualifier if it works for you.


----------



## MsStacy

Great thought, advice and idea Sandy.


----------



## snix11

Why do you consider the red to be a "false" statement?

I think i got the rest -


----------



## snix11

Gosh this party is lasting F O R E V E R.... sigh

Half the guests are silently feeling sorry for me, patting my arm and looking sorrowful (BLECH!!!) the other half is confused why he's not being attentive to me. I'm supposed to play June Cleaver and act like A) I don't notice my husbands inattention, and B) that I'm perfectly oblivious to the pity directed towards me. 

Where are my damn pearls and Heels


----------



## dcrim

Oh...I'm so sorry, baby! I wish I could have had you here with my son's family and me to watch the fireworks. It was wonderful!


----------



## snix11

Glad you had a wonderful time DC  I almost declared my independence tonight, but chickened out. oh well.


----------



## dcrim

hmmm...I'm reminded of the Martina McBride song!  

I sure wish I had a Harry Potter wand! Or a magic lamp! Or a (genie) Jeanie in a bottle! Something to make things better...(uh...for everyone...sure  ) -- or just to be rich!  Or loved. Or anything...


----------



## snix11

I'm not sure what got hold of me yesterday - a large dose of stupidity probably. Anyway, I ended up writing him a very short letter - just asking if he would consider the posibility of giving me/us another chance. 

He never wrote me back. I could have handled a no - but an answer would have been nice. This morning he asked me what woke me up at 4am. I told him that I was wondering what he answer was. He said he didn't have time yesterday (understandable) but would get to answering it 'soon'. I said that I didn't mean for it to be a huge deal, just kind of a yes or no would be fine. 

He said that it wasn't that easy. I said well ok, is it not easy because you don't know the answer or because you just don't know how to say it? (letting me down easy with another no) 

He said that it was because he didn't know the answer. 

Well that was not what I expected. He was watching movies this morning - maybe he'll have time today to answer it? 

Just when I think I have him all figured out - I don't love her or want her anymore at all, end of story - he tells me 'he doesn't know' ARGH. 

I was hoping to get some consistent answers so that I could let go. Now I'm not so sure again.

No seems pretty simple and straight forward - no extra thought required. 

Yes with stipulations or caveats might take more time. 

Maybe also might take more thought. 

But I can't see how a 'no' answer would take any time at all to answer. So in that sense, it gave me hope that the answer might be in the neutral to positive. We'll see. 

I'm off to drop off the kids for the month! woo hoo... down to three kids in the house!


----------



## Sandy55

snix11 said:


> Why do you consider the red to be a "false" statement?
> 
> I think i got the rest -


But frankly, it just made me even more acutely aware of what I'm missing, and wondering why my H is no longer attracted to me"

The reason it is "false" is that you are making a false assumption, Snix. 

Number 1: That you are missing something and that something is something you can "get" externally from another person; 

Number 2: He should be attracted to you under the HIS circumstances. 
Example: HOW could he POSSIBLY be attracted to you as _he does not care about you or love you_. He likely is focused elsewhere, where he choses to be focused.

You STOP your thoughts at the "BUT" and you will start feeling better, as you cannot control the "but" part. You falsely assume you can DO something about the "but". Time has proven you cannot.

Envison: 
Banging head on brick wall till head bleeds.
Swimming in circles until you drown.
Climbing a mountain that has no summit.
Digging your way to China.

False hope = False statement.

False hope is a hope that is CLEARLY illogical to 99.9% of the clearly _intelligent_ people around you. 

Denial is so strong in some cases, because it is protecting the EGO from reality. When an EGO "thinks" it cannot handle the reality, denial causes one to not SEE the obvious.

In your case, your denial is _very strong_, Snix. 
This is because 
A) Your "self" is being rejected by someone you feel you love.
B) Your "EGO" is wounded, as perhaps you felt this dh was a good choice, and if he in fact is not, then your man picking radar sucks (once again...);
C) Your image of "how life was going to be" and having the support of a good dh is vaporizing, and it sucks so BIG TIME.
D) You allowing your dh to manipulate EVERYTHING in your world is cause for you to doubt your perceptions, therefore you reinforce the denial daily.


----------



## Veronica Jackson

recent_cloud said:


> as jake blues sez:
> 
> 'i ran out of gas! i got a flat tire! i didn't have change for cab fare! i lost my tux at the cleaners! i locked my keys in the car! an old friend came in from out of town! someone stole my car! there was an earthquake! a terrible flood! locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!'


OMFG I laughed so hard reading this! Locusts!


----------



## snix11

lol 

Playing with my new 8 week old calico kitten. She picked me


----------



## Rhea

dcrim said:


> hmmm...I'm reminded of the Martina McBride song!
> 
> I sure wish I had a Harry Potter wand! Or a magic lamp! Or a (genie) Jeanie in a bottle! Something to make things better...(uh...for everyone...sure  ) -- or just to be rich!  Or loved. Or anything...


Let freedom riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing, let the white doves siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing, let the whole world know that today is a day of reckoning, let the weak be strong, let the right be wrong....throw your stones away, let the quilty pay, it's Independence Day 

Sing sing sing lalalalal....hope I didn't botch the lyrics....I was too lazy to google to check....


----------



## dcrim

Rhea, you got it almost right. 

I double checked at lyrics.com; it's "roll the stone away" 

(Martina McBride - Independence Day Lyrics)


----------



## Rhea

ah hey that's not too bad eh? LOL

ok back to your regularly scheduled program....


----------



## snix11

lol... ya'll are a hoot 

Well some things came to light tonight - namely that one of his biggest self imposed problems is not liking to be told, controlled, pushed etc. So "

1. why didn't you take me to dinner like you promised!?
2. You'd better take me out dangit, right NOW
3. Hey, we missed last night, can we go out tonight instead honey?

All mean the same thing to him. Any way you slice it, he gets angry and feels controlled, manipulated etc.

I would think the last would help, but he says no. Well, I can't fix that.

Also, he's convinced he can't be the man I want because I occasionally ask him to change - You are a great father but can we try this new love and logic thing? makes him feel like a failure as a parent. Gosh I love that, but can you do it a little to the left makes him feel like a failure as a lover. etc. 

I just told him - look - if I didn't think you could make me happy, and that you were really honestly and truly the man for me, I sure as hell wouldn't be fighting this hard for us. 

I love you warts and all. I am the same woman you fell in love with. You just cant see me and that breaks my heart.

He got real quiet. Hopefully he will see the truth in that statement.


----------



## dcrim

Rhea -- Canadian, eh?  (I'm a curler...I understand)

Snix -- he won't see it. He wants out for some reason. I'd love someone with that kind of dedication, the desire to work things out. If I were in his place, I'd've left a long time ago. But I just couldn't do that. I'm so sorry girl...for all that you're going through. I'd love to take you out to dinner or something! Just to have an enjoyable evening...sigh...


----------



## Rhea

Snix...stop searching for little bits of hope. He gives them because he can and because he KNOWS it will keep you hanging on...he does them because he LOVES your reaction to them and yet HE doesn't have to DO ANYTHING in return...why? Cause you aren't going ANYWHERE...so why should he have to put in effort? 

Now I know you can't LITERALLY go anywhere at the moment due to finances etc...but you can go about your life and treat him as he treats you...PLATONIC...if by some chance that kicks him in his dense A$$ then so be it...but I wouldn't expect much to be honest w/you. Because really all he does is enough to keep you hanging on then throws in your face his continuance of planning to GTFO when and asa it's financially possible for him to do so w/o looking like a complete punk (which by the way to us he's already shown his punkness in full stature). 

Seriously though...I say this not to make you feel bad or anything of the nature but you ma'am are being played and played well...fiddle me not. Platonic is as platonic does...hey I think I'ma coin that term. I guess my point is...at this point in time Snix...when is it going to be enough is enough? And specifically at this point is there anything in him left that you really desire? Or are you merely afraid of being alone so you're scraping for the tiniest thing you can find...to keep even yourself hanging on so as to avoid the inevitable? 

It's just heart breaking to watch him break you on the daily...it's not that you ma'am aren't good enough for HIM, he is NOT good enough for you...and you certainly deserve much much better. And get this...you WILL be ok w/o him  Promise. Time it does take, and painful it certainly is...but damn...this life you're living you have to admit...miserable is it not?


----------



## scarletblue

Saying "I don't know" is much easier than saying yes or no. There is no answer to have to explain. It gets you out of dealing with something you don't want to deal with.

Did I get this right? You guys had a party at your house? Why the hell would he want to do that considering your circumstances? How rude and inconsiderate of him to put you in that akward situation, and IN YOUR OWN HOME! I don't know how I'd deal with that. It would be very hard to plaster a fake smile on my face and pretend nothing was wrong the whole time. I think I would have retreated to my bedroom and cried about half the time.

I want so badly for this to work out for you and have a happy ending. Sadly, I don't see his actions, lack of actions, and mixed signals, showing any sign of this happening for you with this guy. Bottom line......you can't make someone love you.

You deserve someone who can give back to you what you give him. And I guess so does he. If you two can't love each other (not just one of you, but both), then you need to let each other go so you can each find the person who can give you what you need and deserve.


----------



## snix11

Ok. Ya'll win. I quit. 

There is a dark and light beast inside all of us - whichever one we feed will eventually overpower and devour the other. 

It's just heartbreaking to watch him feed the white beast in every aspect of his life - kids, work, friends - and yet see me in the worst possible light. Everything I do and am is bad and black and awful to him. 

If i make his favorite dinner - I'm just trying to manipulate him into loving me. 

If I bring him coffee in the morning, I'm controlling him by not letting him get his own coffee. His daughter brings it - that is a wonderful loving gesture that he turns to me and says 'wow, honey what a great thing to do for me. isn't that wonderful?' 

If I ask him how his day went, I'm being pushy. If he asks me how my day went, I'm expected to answer him or I'm being bit*hy. 

EVERYTHING I do, say, think is graded by him as wanting, evil, with ulterior motives and bad. For a man who doesn't like to be controlled, he's sure letting his dark thoughts not only control him but RUN him where we are concerned. 

Even yesterday, I'm at my desk working and the Sheriff calls and I talk him out of impounding dh's camero and taking his teenage son to jail - I can't get hold of DH who has gone to the store with the baby and the one remaining vehicle and left his cell phone here. So I start walking in the 105 degree weather, hoping to catch up before the sheriff changes his mind. I meet dh on the road, we go to pick up the teen (driving without a license) I talk the sheriff into NOT giving dh a ticket, taking the blame for everything myself. In the end, the cop gives me 20 days to get the stickers on dh's car up to date, and gives a ticket to the teen - but doesn't impound the car and lets me drive it back. 

After we get home - Dh only said 'you didn't have to do that - I could have done it myself and talked my way out of the ticket' 

Yeah, without a cell phone to even know what was going on? If I hadn't done what I did, the teen would be in jail, the car impounded and dh with another ticket. But it meant less than nothing to him - I'm sure DH just saw it as me 'controlling and manipulating' the situation for my own gain. How's that again? I didn't scan that 'for my own gain thing'. 

Yeah. Yer welcome dear. Glad to know I mean so much to you. 

I woke up this morning angry. I guess that's good. He's welcome to leave any time he wants. I'm trying really hard not to just explode and throw him out - frankly I need the income till I'm on my feet and the kids need a place to live. But gosh it's hard. 

Also - I did get angry with him yesterday. And told him so. About a month ago, after he told me he was leaving (again) he said he wanted to be best friends. I asked what that meant. We went over everything that WE wanted. Asked him if he wanted to still be affectionate or not. if he still wanted to sleep together or not. all that stuff. I let him decide everything he wanted with no thought of myself - told him lovingly and specifically that I only wanted him to be comfortable - that I just needed to know what the new 'rules' were. He said he wanted to be affectionate - loved sleeping with me - said things might change between us etc. Basically gave me hope. 

Yesterday he said he LIED about all that - that he just said it to be a 'good person' and that he didn't want any of it but knew I did so he just said it to 'make me happy'. Then he had the nerve to feel sorry for himself by saying "see, I tried to do something good and it bit me in my ass" GRRRRRRRRRRR. If you are going to do something like that, something YOU don't want to do but you know your spouse does - you do NOT go back a month later and tell them it was all bullsh*t and LIES. Either you suck it up and take one for the team and keep it to yourself forever or you are honest in the first place and work out a compromise you can both live happily with.

So i've been looking like a FOOL all this month over him lying to me. Just great. 

So basically I told him that was a REALLY shi*ty thing to do to your "best friend" - and that if he really didn't want me to end up hating him, he had better start being honest with me. I said I could forgive him ANYTHING but he would have to be honest with me.

I asked him if I could expect him to be honest with me. He answered "i'll try". That's the EXACT same words he used last month with the '"I want to be affectionate with you" I said the phrase "I'll try" doesn't fly with me anymore and I need a straight answer. 

He eventually said that 'yes' he wanted to be honest with me. Yes, I admit, I was a bit*h about it. But DAMNIT. ENOUGH.

And yes, after much hemming and hawing he answered me with a 'no, i'm not willing to give you or us another chance' 

So be it. 

No cheating, I'm not an alcoholic, no abuse. I'm a great mom, affectionate, adventuresome and willing to please in bed. I'm not beautiful or short or redheaded but he knew that when he fell in love with me. I don't need to be rescued, I can stand on my own feet. I'm good with money, and compliment the areas he's weak in - finances, planning things, following thru - I'm big hearted, loving and VERY forgiving. The kids love us both and we make a good 'family unit'. We parent well, don't argue about money and sleep well together. (anyone who's had a spouse move out of the bed due to snoring or other incompatibilities knows what I mean) I don't have a nasty family to bug him, I don't mind pitching in wherever I'm needed. I can cook (somewhat) shoot, hunt, fix things, sew, make crafts with the kids and am very romantic. I'm lovingly tolerant of his smoking (tho I would feel better if he quit I do NOT nag) Why on earth would anyone give up on A spouse who truly loves him, warts and all and is willing to do ANYTHING for him 

- but he feels he can't 'live up' to the person I want so he won't try and he would rather just throw me away and start over than work together to fix what is broken.

What a STUPID SELFISH reason to break up a family, a home and a marriage.


----------



## dcrim

Snix, (((*** HUGS ***))) girl!

"I'll try"? BS...he won't...sigh...he's already out the door (in his mind). 

Do what you want to, girl...but if it were me, I'd stop doing ANYTHING for him. For whatever stupid reason, he just doesn't know what he's got...or he's got something else going on (of anything) and wants you to be the bad guy. 

My xgf tried to make me say that we were done. Like you, I wouldn't say it. She finally had to do it. I think he's trying to do the same thing...to make you say it, to take the action, to kick him out so he'll feel better about himself and not have to be the one to say he ended it.


----------



## MsStacy

Good...I am glad to hear you are getting angry! 

Get angry, get mad, get b*tchy. Just stop pandering to him and his selfishness. He will never be honest with you.

Get angry, and GET HIM OUT OF YOUR BED! Back to the couch he goes......


----------



## Nobody123

I read all your posts and feel your pain. There is no doubt in my mind that you are a good wife; however, if you want him to come back, you need to let him go and take control of your life. Some might disagree with me but most husbands want their wives to have some trophy or mistress quality. You might want to try the following:

1)	Leave him alone. Give him space. Don’t send him any notes, e-mails or signals about reconciliation. Give him the impression that you have accepted him leaving but want to stay as good friends. Don’t try to push for his company. Don’t discuss any future with him. Don’t bother him. 

2)	Don’t do anything extra nice for him. Don’t pour him coffee or serve him. Let him handle his stuff, even means his son will be sent to jail. Don’t be mean but don’t try too hard.

3)	Be a pleasant companion. Don’t nag and just listen to him. Don’t criticize him. Don’t tell him about your trouble. Don’t ask him if he is going to stay. Just smile, listen and nod. 

4)	Build up your social circle. Try to develop social friends and hobbies. Social networking is an asset that you can bring to a relationship. 

5)	Deny him any intimacy. Hold off any urge to cling, hug, kiss or cuddle. Ideally, you should move to another bedroom. Give him some excuse that it is for his own good. 

6)	Shape up and look your best. You said that you are tall so you have good bone structure to carry nice clothing. Lose the weight. Change hair style, buy new clothes, apply different make up so you look great, different and confident. 

7)	Be provocative. Starve him on all intimacy and learn to be provocative and sexy. Sexiness is a technique that can be learned. Make him want you but don’t give in to have sex. 

Try to stay put for one month and see what happens. Men can be simple minded. Sex and physical gratification is what they can comprehend; it is very hard for them to deal with empathy, feelings, communication or words. When confronted with complex emotional entanglements, they want to escape, and be left alone. The male species of the animal kingdom are bred to roam free, be in dominance and it is their nature to woo their mate. Show him what he misses, lure him to your side, be in control but let him do the chasing. If you still want him after all this, use your brain instead of your heart to figure out how to make it click.


----------



## Rhea

Wow Nobody....nicely written


----------



## snix11

Nobody -

1. Doing that
2. Will do that
3. No problem can do that
4. working on that
5. Did that for MONTHS. didn't make any difference other than he seemed HAPPY to not to be intimate. Where I am concerned the man has NO sex drive. At all. He watches more and more porn, but I don't even think he's masturbating. And there is no other bedroom to move to. Six kids, three bedroom house - we are strapped for space as it is. I could kick him to the office or the couch downstairs but not sure that is a great idea. 

6. Did that a month ago - he said he liked my hair. For about a day. Bought new clothes, he didn't care or notice. Lost 40 lbs, new makeup etc. He didn't notice or care. Didn't change one whit his attraction for/to me. I feel better, but he doesn't seem to give a hoot. He sees me change for the better and thinks it's only to "manipulate him" so he consciously shuts off any good thoughts about me either physically or sexually and takes any attraction he might feel for me and turns it sour by thinking that i'm only doing this to 'get back at him'. 

7. Um how? He doesn't EVER, EVER want sex from me. Never asks for it, never hints, never ever seems to want me. Doesn't flirt, doesn't make jokes, doesn't give me any signals. How do I make a man like this want me? 

I would be happy to let him do the chasing - but how? 

Today he called me from work. I was planning on being cold and aloof - well that didn't last. I was pleasant and countered him in the same way he called. When he got home, he came over to my desk to give me a hug. I didn't get up - he complained about a conciliatory pat and hug. I said "well for a proper hug I'll have to stand up" and gave him one. He didn't seem to care. He has not touched me since tho he talks to me about the kids and plays with and cuddles the baby next to me and seems to want my approval of that. 

Frankly I don't see I have much to work with here. Obviously I have no skills in turning him on, have no idea how to lure him to my side and everything i've tried to do to be provocative or sexy just gets rejected as 'so what' by him


----------



## Rhea

No he has no skills period.


----------



## snix11

Huh rhea? Did I miss something?


----------



## dcrim

Yeah...I was thinking the same thing!


----------



## Rhea

Mr Z...the only skills he has is....wait for it....making you abo****ely as miserable as he possibly can.


----------



## Rhea

Hmm...apparantly I spelled absolutely wrong and the sensor bot starred it out lol...that's funny....I must have spelled it abosl*tely....hehe


----------



## snix11

Rhea - I have a hard time believing he's making me miserable on purpose. He would certainly swear (and has) that it's not a conscious decision - that he hates to see me hurt and his only 'goal' is to make this transition as easy on me as possible. 

He is pleasant on the phone. Will greet me when he comes in. Talks about his day and the kids. Asks me how i'm feeling (note: do NOT tell him anything negative - lie if need be) Asks me how my day went. Is polite. Doesn't criticize (out loud) etc. 

He says his 'issues' cannot be worked out while he's in a relationship. 

And no, so much of it just feels wrong - despite his lofty words.


----------



## Sandy55

Snix: "Obviously I have no skills in turning him on, have no idea how to lure him to my side and everything i've tried to do to be provocative or sexy just gets rejected as 'so what' by him"

 _Do you THINK you could be any more self_depreciating than THIS?_ 

OBVIOUSLY, feeling sorry for yourself rather than ANGRY at HIM is not productive.


----------



## snix11

Sandy55 said:


> Snix: "Obviously I have no skills in turning him on, have no idea how to lure him to my side and everything i've tried to do to be provocative or sexy just gets rejected as 'so what' by him"
> 
> _Do you THINK you could be any more self_depreciating than THIS?_
> 
> OBVIOUSLY, feeling sorry for yourself rather than ANGRY at HIM is not productive.


Sandy, I wasn't thinking 'oh poor me' rather just 'that's really not an option - the being provocative, sexy thing to get his attention' as was suggested because he simply does not care or have any feelings toward me at all.

While I'm sure "nobody" meant well and it might work with any normal male, it's not an option in my case. 

It was practical rather than self depreciating. I don't think I'm necessarily to blame for not being able to turn him on, I just don't have what it takes to interest him. I have become "not his type" and he makes a point to reject strenuously any interest he might have in me.


----------



## snix11

MizSmith - did your aloofness bring reconciliation between you and your husband? Love? does he now cherish you since you are aloof? Or was it a protection mechanism for you and continues to be a safe place for you to hide from his alcoholism?


----------



## Rhea

snix11 said:


> Rhea - I have a hard time believing he's making me miserable on purpose. He would certainly swear (and has) that it's not a conscious decision - that he hates to see me hurt and his only 'goal' is to make this transition as easy on me as possible.
> 
> He is pleasant on the phone. Will greet me when he comes in. Talks about his day and the kids. Asks me how i'm feeling (note: do NOT tell him anything negative - lie if need be) Asks me how my day went. Is polite. Doesn't criticize (out loud) etc.
> 
> He says his 'issues' cannot be worked out while he's in a relationship.
> 
> And no, so much of it just feels wrong - despite his lofty words.


You have a hard time believing it I'm sure as we don't want to think the ones we love would do such a thing to us...me I think he enjoys it emensly. Why else would he be hot cold warm cold hot...lets go out, lets stay home??? Hug you not hug you, talk to the kids, ignore you, etc....but hey JMO not necessarily right....


----------



## Sandy55

Snix, do you think he is going to try for custody of children?


----------



## snix11

Sandy - only one of the kids is 'ours'. We already had that discussion and he seemed fine with it. He agreed that I would have primary possession and he would have standard or regular visitation. He is willing to get that notarized so I don't see any reason not to trust him on it. Honestly I didn't think he would give up the baby that easily - but then again, he has made rumblings in the past that he didn't think the baby was 'his'. 

As for child support - he said he would have to see how much money he had 'left' after paying his bills. He intends to rent a three bedroom house near his work at 281/Thousand oaks. 

Frankly I think he should budget that in before he goes and shops for houses for him and his two kids to live in.

Ideally he would help pay off the credit cards (of which he got half the stuff) we would both find places we could afford, we would work together to get rid of this place and he would budget for child support. 

The only thing that bothers me is that his teenage son told me "he told me he wants the baby but he knows he can't get him right away when we leave". That sounded ominous. I asked dh about it and he denied he had said anything of the sort. 

Either way, I'll feel better when we get the paperwork done. It won't keep him from suing me for custody later, but I'll have to trust in his sense of honor for that. 

He was up at 3am last night. He hasn't slept well since we 'broke up' and he announced he was leaving. I've noticed that when he has broken up before he doesn't sleep well till we reconcile. When he's working on us, forgiving me and himself and moving forward with the relationship, he sleeps fine. 

When I'm up at 3am i'm either worried, bored or very lonely. He said he was just 'awake'. Perhaps he would sleep better in a different bed. (room, house, planet)

He has completely stopped giving me any attention at night. no leg snuggles, no foot touching, no hugs, no asking me to rub his back, not even a peck goodnight. AND he doesn't sleep well. Why is he still there?

The only way I can sleep at night is to drug the heck out of myself. Tylenol PM has become my friend. I look forward to a resolution to all this nonsense so I can get off all these meds. 

Anyway - I still love him and I always will. But I'm really starting not to LIKE him anymore because of how he's treating me. I guess I love the person I know he CAN be tho he's choosing not to be that person. I don't think I'll ever understand his need to hurt me and himself this much.


----------



## snix11

Rhea said:


> You have a hard time believing it I'm sure as we don't want to think the ones we love would do such a thing to us...me I think he enjoys it emensly. Why else would he be hot cold warm cold hot...lets go out, lets stay home??? Hug you not hug you, talk to the kids, ignore you, etc....but hey JMO not necessarily right....


Rhea - I just don't KNOW anymore. 

I don't sense or feel any malice in him towards me, no glee at my pain. 

More him beating himself up, over and over and not being able to stop. Even if he wanted to stop, I don't think he believes that I would really forgive him for all this (that he's gone too far to turn back now) so any thought he has of loving me again get negated by his "she won't love me again anyway" nonsense. He doesn't feel he's worthy of my love (he is) and is convinced he can't be the man I want him to be (he can, has been and could be again if he wanted to) 

He's partly turned me into some daemon in his mind who is trying to control him and manipulate him - he's turned every evil mean person that ever abused him (and he had plenty as did I) as a child into me. It's like he's using ME to get back at them. 

It makes me so angry when he takes my love and affection and vilifies me with it. 

He's partly scared to love and trust (might get hurt or I might reject him) so that gives him an excuse to 'turn off' lest he be in a scary place where he has to take a chance on loving and being loved.

I think he's really angry at his mom also - and somehow sees me as her in some warped sense and is taking that out on me too.

Yes, he's a bit messed up right now. I knew he had emotional issues when I made the decision to give him my heart and love him forever. For us, it was perfect - we both had similar (horrid) childhoods and we had finally found the one person we could be ourselves with. We were the haven from the world. Finally able to love, trust and be loved in return. Because we knew each other and didn't shy away when we learned what the other had been thru, we felt safe and worthy.

For me he was perfect, because I knew, no matter what, that if he loved me he would never back down from a fight, would protect me and cherish me always and forever, would never chicken out when I needed him the most. He still is so very attuned to my emotions - he knows sometimes before I do if I'm sad or upset or angry. He's funny and sweet, loving and giving. He was the best lover I ever had - wild and fun and intense and so very right for me. And being held in his arms made me feel at home for the very first time, like that was where I belonged, forever and a day.

But now he's pulled back in fear (or whatever) and the only way he can justify all this is to see me as the bad guy. For a man who is and will always be the strongest, bravest person I have or will ever meet, he's unbelievably scared of loving me or being loved in return. 

I've tried, in so many ways to show him, tell him, convince him i'm right HERE!! He doesn't have to beat himself or me up anymore. But I feel a bit like that little Who down in Whoville who can't be heard.


----------



## Rhea

My ex has some of the same issues. Scared to love and be loved. Afraid of rejection. Some depression. Part a$$hole, a little bit of player. No bad childhood, a good one actually. Great family, very close. Him, very distant. I don't know anymore either. I know yours isn't doing this but my ex has a very hard problem "loving" himself so he can't really love one person. He is now out there slinging around as many as he can spewing lies left and right to them all. I find it very odd and don't know how it can be enjoyable. Yet somehow that's what he "needs" to feel worthy or something (he'll deny it) its very weird. But anyways he's out acting as though he's 18, it's kind of amusing, pathetically sad, and part sickening to watch.

Anyway I know none of that is Mr. Z. Just sharing some of my experiences w/you.

Hope you're having a good day. Don't dwell on the yucks today. Smile Mrs. Snix and make it a good one


----------



## snix11

Ms Snix is working on being in the moment today... 

Not so bad, just lots of fires to put out. Surely something good will come of all this


----------



## snix11

Just when I thought it was safe to come out from under the covers 

Another crappy day - but I stayed fairly postive despite everything. 

Mr Z is hot and cold again, but I'm starting to not take any of it seriously. More like it's an interesting dream. He is nice to me? Huh, cool. He ignores me or is cold or mean? huh, interesting. Too bad for him - that's one more hug for somebody who does want me 

My best friend made me laugh last night by telling me he would come over and tell Mr. Z to shove over in the bed so he could lay and give me a hug. I've known him for over 10 years and he's happily married - I know it would never actually happen, but just the thought kept me in smiles all afternoon. 

I'm also noticing I'm getting reckless. Partly the stress and partly lack of funds - but again, it's more like I'm witnessing my life from afar rather than actually living it. Strange, huh?

Well back to work.


----------



## dcrim

It sounds like you're starting to get a bit better...even if a little bit at a time.  Just keep on doing that. 

I know with him there, it's not as easy...but just close him off emotionally. Just roomies. 

I still think you should kick him out of the bed.


----------



## snix11

dc, you are probably right. But then I probably won't, either. I'm such a chicken. And way too nice. Last night I couldn't keep my hands off him - I had to make myself behave. If he's that uncomfortable with it, he's welcome to leave the bed. LOL.... Hard to believe that a woman's attention might drive a man out of the bed... but ... shrug. 

I guess I'm just not mean enough yet to kick him out. Oh well.


----------



## snix11

Another busy day yesterday. He got home at 3pm but I didn't get home till 11. He didn't seem to notice or really care I was gone. I tried to call him in the evening, but he didn't answer the phone. 

We just don't seem to talk anymore or anything. His stated goal to be 'best friends' will never come about if he keeps shutting me out of everything. 

He's dumped me as a lover, a wife and now a friend too. Whatever he's doing or going to do, I wish he would just get it over with. This lying to me is just too much. 

If he doesn't want to be friends, all he has to do is say so. But I guess he's too chicken. Or he's just letting his actions speak for him. 

I keep trusting his word and he keeps breaking it. Makes me not want to trust anything he says. Now I have a whole new slew of problems to deal with. He wanted me to talk to him about them, but how can I when he doesn't even want to be friends? I guess I'll just keep them to myself and try and work it out.


----------



## snix11

Dangit. Things are finally starting to look up a little. And all I can do is cry and feel sorry for myself. ARGHHHH. This is SOO not like me. I need to shake this. 

I hate depression. YUCK!!!

Mr. Z just showed up said he was on his way thru and forgot to take his meds today. Came in and gave me a hug. But all I could do is barely acknowledge him. I was doing ok before he showed up. But I realized that none of it matters. Not the words, not the gestures, not the hugs. He's still leaving no matter what I do or don't do. I'll never ever be good enough no matter what I do. And he won't even tell me what I did wrong so I can avoid it next time. 

SIGH


----------



## dcrim

You ARE good enough, girl! You didn't do anything wrong. 

Stop blaming yourself for his insecurities, his self image issues, his low self esteem!

The only problem right now is you can't begin to heal while he's there. I understand why he's there. Just hang on.


----------



## snix11

hanging. trying to find my happy spot


----------



## Dark Angel

Im so sorry Snix.

I dont understand how people can be like that either. Especially with regard to lying to someone you love.

There are some people that just cannot be saved no matter how hard you try. There are those that can never be pleased.

You should be very proud of yourself for the love that you have shown. Hang on to that.

Take care.


----------



## Sandy55

Snix: "...And he won't even tell me what I did wrong so I can avoid it next time...."

The REASON he won't "tell" you is that you haven't DONE anything. 

We ALL keep telling you it is _him_ and _not_ you....


Denial, Snix, denial......:scratchhead:


----------



## snix11

Fine. *Puts on my Cleopatra hat* 

There, at least now i'm da QUEEN of Da-Nile  (denial.. it's a joke. get it? oh never mind)

I posted to my facebook page that I was looking for friends to hang out with. I got an answer back!! Just one tho. Someone wanted to hang out tonight. Cool!! 

Looked it up - it was Mr. Z.... who said "what would you like to do?" Ah geeez I kinda meant someone that WANTED to spend time with me - you know like a date. Fun, flirting, hugs and maybe a stolen kiss at the end. sigh. Well, it's 630 and he's not back from work yet, so I guess I don't have to worry about the whole 'date' thing tonight anyway. 

Found my happy spot - somewhere between a shower, an hour of meditation and a glass of really cheap red wine. lol.. oh, and good music. 

I'm kind of in a holding pattern (AGAIN) waiting on Mr. Z to get back so I can go out (he's my baby sitter) or for him to remember he asked me what I wanted to do. 

Things looking up somewhat... have several new business lines starting - it looks like I not really meant to be an employee, as easy as that might be a steady paycheck just doesn't seem to be in my future. However, Kelly did call back and want to know if I wanted to work at USAA (sandy will know who) as a call center person for 15/hr (about half of what I need) starting on the 27th. The hours are weird - 11am-9pm Sunday-Thurs but not bad. 

I'm now just trying to figure out if I should take it or try on my own again... decisions decisions. 

But not feeling too bad... wondering if I can stop taking the 'happy pills' meds when they run out (been on them three weeks now) or if I should keep taking them. Other than it feeling like i'm hopped up on too much coffee most of the time, I haven't noticed that much difference. 

Sandy - I AM working, diligently, on stopping the negative thoughts - REALLY hard in my situation as I happen to work in the bedroom I share with Mr. Z so I'm surrounded by it all the time, plus then there is the whole emotional rollercoaster Mr Z is himself. 

But I read something the other night that shocked me back into the moment - and I'm trying to stay in a productive place. 

Hopefully this weekend will be a wonderful positive time


----------



## Sandy55

Have heard USAA is good place to work and $15/hr isn't bad at all, doable. Two of my neighbors work for USAA, one is a single mom with kids in college, she's been with them for 15 years.


----------



## snix11

wow what a weird night. He comes home, says he's going to get in the shower. Takes two hours to read his email... eventually he says he's hungry and I take him to dinner at chili's. I had to pick the place, he was actually getting frustrated and angry with me because I asked him where he wanted to eat. Geez. 

While we are there he wants to talk about whether or not I want to go to his friends party today. I told him it was situational and conditional. I said look, in order for me to be 'happy' it would depends on how you act. He thought that was stupid. (figures)

He kept hounding me till I told him that I wanted to go with him. As my best friend AND date. After I put my heart on my sleeve like that, he just says "now was that so hard?" No. Not that hard. But, as usual, it's me giving and you taking. I have to put forth all my insecurities and worries, you don't answer or acknowledge any of them other than to say 'now was that so hard?'

He never did answer me as to how he was going to act - cold or warm or loving or distant. I feel like I've been played. Again. 

Tried to be warm and close with him when we went to bed. Tried to snuggle him, but he ignored me with a smile. sigh.

This morning, I wake up at 6, he's already up. I said good morning - he said 'go back to bed' then proceeds to tell me to go back to bed for five minutes. GEEZ. I'm not up to bother him! I just wanted to find someone to greet me warmly with a good morning! Went online but none of my friends were up. 

If the kids get up, he stops what he's going and gives them attention, hugs and morning snuggles. You know, a warm good morning greeting. I get told to go back to bed. Sheesh. 

I hate having to be the only one to put my heart on my sleeve. I hate being told (rejected in my mind) to go back to bed anytime I get up and he's up first. Oh well. 

And now, that I've told him what's in my heart about this stupid party, he's aware of how i'm going to act but gives me nothing in return. Maybe he does just like seeing me hurt over and over. 

Gosh this whole relationship has become so stupid and toxic and one sided. I hate this


----------



## dcrim

Tell him you're not going.

At the least, get a toy and have fun...tell him you're going to do this!  Tell him it will be more fun for you!  

Damn, girl I just can't fathom that! I'd give you a hug! I'd make breakfast for you. Heck I'd roll over and see if you wanted an early morning "poke"!  

If not, I'd surely hold you close, wrap my arms around you, nuzzle your neck, stroke your arms, skin. 

aaarrrggghhhh!!! I just don't believe him! 

You know that if you go to this party he will ignore you so why go? 

He's an a$$hole! I don't know why he's doing this unless it's to get you to pull the trigger. I just can't see treating someone this way! 

BTW, I love chilis! Want dinner?


----------



## MsStacy

Don't go to the party!

You just had a party with his friends at your house a week ago. You were miserable and embarrassed. Why "tag along" with him to another? You'll be setting yourself up for more hurt.

Don't go to the party!


----------



## snix11

We had the steak. It was good. 

After I went back to bed this morning, he THEN comes over (after I'm already mad and gave up) and says "I didn't give you a proper hug this morning, here" and gives me a big hug. 

Either I'm as nuts as he says I am and way too impatient, or he's playing me BIG TIME.

Either way, I'm sick of being passive. I'm sick of letting him make all the decisions. I'm sick of being ignored. I'm not gonna do it anymore. And he can complain and ***** and moan about it all he wants. But i'm not backing down this time. If it bothers him he can damn well leave. If not, good.

and as if things weren't strange enough - he swears he was loving and attentive as always at the party. Not only that, but he keeps telling me I don't remember things correctly. Yes, i'm starting to doubt my sanity thanks to him. 

So yeah, I'll go to the party. He asked me what I wanted and I told him. He may not have given me anything to look forward to in return, but that doesn't mean I'm going to back down on what I said. I'm going to be paying close attention to everything he does, everything the other spouses do with their dates and wives. Maybe I am nuts. Maybe he is just as attentive. Somehow I don't think so - but I do allow room in my world to be wrong 

Don't worry, I'll be nice. Just not my usual passive self


----------



## dcrim

Next time he offers you a hug, especially a "pity" hug, tell him "no, thanks"! 

I'll hug my dog/cat/horse/pig/duck...whatever.  It will be more satisfying. 

Oh, yeah...he's playing you like a fiddle! Been there, got the damn T-shirt! 

hmmm, hungry...maybe eggs and hash and toast...


----------



## snix11

The party wasn't bad... I drank too much and picked a play fight. But then I wasn't the only one doing that. Honestly I had alot of fun. 

Mr. Z was.... nice. Offered me a drink, stood by me several times. made a joke or two. asked how I was doing on occasion. Didn't sit next to me or touch me affectionately or kiss me at any time - so none of that nasty personal stuff he hates (with me) but he was nice like a friend. 

I was sooooo horny when we went home. I almost asked him to drop me off somewhere. lol. It's now been months since I had any kind of sex. I feel really weird about it. I'm more of a 3-5x a week girl but we don't do anything anymore. I guess I'm just not attractive to him. Tho with my new hair, looks and weight loss I get looks from strangers I never got before. Oh well, I guess I'm just not his type. 

Why is it again he gets what he wants (just friends) and I don't get what I want? How is this fair again?


----------



## Corpuswife

Snix,

I've been following your thread. I understand, from my side, how it is to not be wanted as a partner. 

However, I have decided to have a tough love attitude. Mostly, it's based on Dr. Dobson's Love Must Be Tough book. It has helped me find some peace and power. Although, there are moments or days in which I feel weak. It's sort of you-can't -have -your -cake- and eat- it- too stand.

Anyway, when my spouse gives me the mixed signals ..I try to smile and not respond. In fact, getting ready for church this AM my hubby asks...."are you wearing any underwear?" Hmmmm. (smile and ignore). Perhaps he was just curious and wanted to know. Perhaps he was thinking I was hot. I don't know. However, why victimize myself anymore by encouraging his behavior. He wants a divorce because he is no longer "in love." 

This is an example in regards to how I react. When my hubby wants to go out...I don't jump on the bandwagon. I "may or may not" be able to make it. Have him become the chaser. 

I think this may be a good tactic for you as well. No matter how this works out for you. It will empower you but isnt' easy and goes against our nature. 

Good luck. I am rootin for you.


----------



## snix11

Thanks for the advice. I'm trying to sleep all day today - helps with the depression. I woke up in a GREAT mood, just wanting a man around to snuggle and love on and have a good morning with. When I woke up enough to realize the man I wanted was there but I could never have that, I decided that perhaps sleeping might help 

He said he read the forums here again - that the only thing he got out of everything I wrote is that I seem sad. Good lord. That's all he got out of it? I'm speechless. 

I asked him to come here and post - to give his side of the story. He said that was too much a Maury thing, that it would just be him saying "I said this and me saying no I didn't" etc. 

I just wanted to hear his side of things really - just to know how he can justify this. Give me something, anything so some of this makes sense - even if it's not true, or real - just to know what he's thinking and feeling and how he sees me in his mind would help. 

Am I a monster to him? Crazy? Just not good enough? Not what he wants? Not sweet enough? Too tall? what??


----------



## Corpuswife

The problems is you are seeking answers and perhaps he doesn't have any...He is going with how he is "feeling." Sometimes we are moody, pissed, irritable, etc. for NO REASON. Sometimes we are looking for our happiness in others.

Who knows? My husband has given me NO clues as to why he no longer finds me attractive or no longer in love with me. After awhile of me being sad, I am starting to get a bit pissed. This is him and whatever fairy tale/romantic notion that he running in his head. He wants to be alone. Sounds like fun to me! ha...he'll be in shock. All of his buddies won't be there when he takes a fall or needs someone to talk to.....He will eventually feel the pain of alone. (here is my anger talking)

Anyway. It is very hard to not overanalyze everything when you are in LIMBO. Take care of yourself and get a little pissed.


----------



## snix11

Danigit corpus, i don't want to get pissed off, i want to get LAID! lol, more than that I want a man to snuggle with, have fun with, play with, flirt with. You know, just all that personal stuff.

He says he doesn't want a girl, but signs up everywhere for 'meeting new people' and online woman finding services and such. 

I just hate this whole limbo thing. I'm really not sure what he wants - but he says we have been over and over this. Well, lets see

I love you and will love you forever and a day
I want you to marry me
I love you
You are my best friend
I don't think we are going to work out
I want to try to work things out
I tried to work things out
I'm moving out
It's not you it's me
I'm moving out when we both agree you are financially stable
I didn't try to work things out, I just said that to make you happy
I don't want to try anymore
I don't know what I want
I'm done and filing for divorce
we don't need a divorce unless you want one
I want to be your best friend
I want to get along
Why do we have to define it?

When I ask what being 'best friends' means to him he says i'm being too picky, asking too many probing questions and being too nit picky. 

Well, frankly I think SOME things should be defined at least:

While you are living here, how will you treat me? I've already asked this, twice. I told him if he was sleeping with me in the bed, I expected him to be affectionate and treat me like I was his woman. He says he has done that, I disagree. If I bring that up, he says I'm just telling him he does everything wrong. 

I have asked if we could spend the time we do have here together becoming as close as we could - treat it like an affair or something. He said sure. He hasn't.

I have asked him what he would like best - what would be his ultimate scenerio. I get back "I don't know" or "i haven't thought about it'

HURUMPH. Maybe I am too picky. But this just feels like he is being WAY too vague. He said he would talk to me about this today. Well, we'll see. I'll try.


----------



## snix11

So much for open and honest. He says I'm like his Aunt who he now hates, but other than her saying that she tried to force him into having his mom's funeral at a certain time by asking him when he wanted it (her birthday this August) and she saying that they should have it on Memorial day (for whatever reason) and him getting his way about it anyway. I'm not sure exactly how that relates to me. I've always been very supportive of any of the decisions he made about his mom. It's just more of him seeing everything I do (and don't do) as the bad guy. 

I'm so sick of it. 

And lets update that 'best friends' to 'well someday maybe we can be friends, but there is too much water under the bridge right now on both sides (not mine but go ahead and tell me what i'm thinking and feeling) for us to be friends. 

Every week I get downgraded to another level of being shut out, shut down and ignored. Every week he sees everything I do as bad and wrong. 

He says the main reason he's leaving is that nothing he ever does is right. and he's only afraid of commitment with ME. Oh great, so the next skirt that comes along will be worthy of commitment. I predict he'll be married within a year of leaving me. 

He came in the room a minute ago and said 'i'm not here to bother you, I'm just getting a drink'. Funny, that is exactly what I would do when I wanted to talk to him but knew we were fighting and didn't know how to try to talk in a way that wouldn't piss him off.

GRRRRRR

ok, better now. I wrote him a letter. I doubt he will do anything about it. But at least I know in a letter I'll be heard and not talked over or around or misinterpreted or told i didn't say something etc.


----------



## dcrim

(((*** HUGS ***))) Snix! What a monumental...uh...mmm...er...ok, FOOL! (wanted to use a different word the 'bot wouldn't like) 

No one deserves to be treated as you are being!


----------



## snix11

Well he didn't respond to the letter. I brought it out on the porch and just said very quietly and sweetly 
'here honey. I wrote things down so that you could hear me without getting angry. 
His response? I"M NOT THE ONE WHO YELLED! 
me- I didn't say yelled, I said angry. I hope you read it, it means alot to me. - 
He angrilly flicks his cigarette and pulls leaves off the bushes angrilly. I go back inside. 

But I'm still glad I wrote it. And i'm still glad I sent it. I brought ME some closure anyway. 

He's still outside, hours later, smoking and sitting in his truck. Oh yeah, great idea snix - just have a nice conversation about us being more affectionate with each other like he promised. What could go wrong? Apparently with me, everything. sigh.


----------



## Corpuswife

Go to the library and get Dr. Dobson's Love Must be Tough. It will put you in the role of chasee not chaser in the relationship. It's a good read and makes sense.

I am using it as a last resort. Being nice and kind and supportive isn't enough. It will keep you in LIMBO. 

I have a thread called Love Must Be Tough. Kinda going through the motions now.


----------



## snix11

He slept on the couch last night. His choice. I never said anything. 

He came up to the bed and told me in his most loving voice - I read your letter. I said "ok" he never said anything else about it. I was pretty cold about it too. After he left, I went in to thank him for talking to me and telling me he read the letter. That turned bad of course. 

He then floored me with one sentence. 

Don't insult my intelligence by assuming I don't know exactly what I'm doing wrong, what I'm doing to you. 

OMG. 

This whole time I'm thinking the best - that he just doesn't realize that he's hurting me, that he just sees himself as trying his best and failing. But to find out he knows exactly what he's doing to me and us. I'm in shock. 

And again - everything I say is bad or evil or wrong. he mentions he doesn't want to have a negative conversation. I back up a step, say honey you are right. I agree, what should we talk about - I'm open to anything. 

HE just rolls his eyes and says nothing. Because the only reason I said what I did was to control him and manipulate him. Oh for pete's sake. 

wow. so all this destruction and negative thoughts about me and us is on PURPOSE!!??! damn. 

He says our relationship is in too much flux right now for him to tell me how he's going to act from one day to the next. just great.


----------



## dcrim

Dang, girl! 

What a toxic partner! I know you can't kick him out...but I can't wait for you to get rid of him! 

WE can't wait for you to get to hea!


----------



## Sandy55

"wow. so all this destruction and negative thoughts about me and us is on PURPOSE!!??! damn."


HELLLLLLLOOOOOOO??????  Mrs. Denial? Anybody home?


HINT HINT

He's a: *master manipulator*.


----------



## scarletblue

Dang girl, I don't know how you are dealing with this. I'd have been nutz a long time ago!

Let me just tell you a little story here:

I had decided I wanted a divorce from my 1st hubby. We'd been married for 15 years and have 4 children. This was not an easy decision, but definately the right one. He had a hard time believing or accepting it.

I told him I was going to keep the house- everything was in my name from the last time he'd left me and had an affair(again). I told him he could stay until he could save enough money to get into a place. I wanted us to end it on friendly terms. I wanted him to be happy. I cared about him still.

While he was still in the house, he thought there was a chance of us working things out. There wasn't, I was done. He'd blow his money instead of saving it. I think he thought that if he just stayed long enough, we'd work things out. 

I was really trying to end it on a friendly note. Hoping that we could be one of those rare couples who ended things and still got along afterwards. He'd write me letters telling me his feelings. I'd write back. His letters just felt like he was trying to make me feel guilty. I was sleeping on the couch. He kept asking me to sleep in the bed with him. I didn't want to give him mixed signals. It turns out that every nice or friendly thing I did where he was concerned gave him mixed signals. -end of story-

Now, I know your circumstances are not at all like mine were. My ex was a cheater and had gotten into meth use. One minute he'd be begging me to work it out, the next he'd be threatening to kill me.

I'm just wondering if you're taking some of his friendly gestures for more than what they are. From what I've read in your thread, he's done and wants to end up on friendly terms with you. I know you want to fix it, but YOU didn't break it. If you two sleep together, where would that put you mentally? Would it give you more false hope? Very possibly emotionally devistating for you after all was said and done.

I'm sorry, I'm not telling you this to hurt your feelings. I think you're great, and if I lived in your town, I'd drag your butt out with me to dinner, or pool, dancing, knitting, bowling, bingo, needlepoint, a concert, UFC fight, dirtbike racing, tiddly winks......something!

Take care of you and what you need to get though this. You deserve a future with someone who can give you the love you deserve. As long as you're with Mr Z (?), you won't have the chance to find that someone.

Hang in there!


----------



## snix11

Scarlett - hanging. Yes, I realize that he may just be trying to be 'over and friendly' but yes, what he does gives me false hope. 

I haven't cheated. I'm not into meth use. I have told him I'm willing to do and be whatever he wants if he just will work with em so I can know what that is. But yes, like you, he doesn't care. He's done. over. thru. Or so he says. sometimes. But his eyes say differently. And his actions say differently. He made me PROMISE to believe in the impossible. He made me promise to not give up on him, ever. In fact, he even told me one time, that his biggest 'test' for someone was whether or not they would stay with him and believe in him even when he was pushing them away. In February he told me one of the things he admired and loved most about me was the fact that I was trying so hard for us. That I wouldn't just give up.

After you told your ex and he was sleeping on the couch - how long did that time last? Did he ever stop his cheating and meth use during that time? Did he do anything to show you or tell you he was willing to change for you? Did you ever accept any good thing he did? Was there ANYTHING he could have done during that time to win you back? What finally happened?

I have a very hard time with this, especially since he won't even give me a decent reason he's leaving - other than to say 

it's not you, it's me (oh please)
I have to leave to work out my commitment issues (how's that again?)
There is too much water under the bridge (so he's pissed and doesn't want to forgive me for something he's holding a grudge about)
I want to be your best friend
(bullsh*t to get her to accept him leaving)
I don't want to leave but I have to
(then don't leave - I'm willing to accept a stand off relationship for a while as long as the goal is to get back together. Dating other people is ok, not sleeping together is ok. Let me help you with your problems. I'm a good listener and don't get shocked at bad stuff)
Who knows, someday we can get back together
(bullsh*t to get her to accept him leaving)
I don't know who my father is
(what the HE!! does that have to do with loving someone??)
I'm sacrificing our relationship to save our friendship
(bullsh*t to get her to accept him leaving - especially as he has only pulled away more and more, both as a friend and a mate)
I don't know what I want
 (that much seems real on the surface. But we've only had thousands of hours talking over just this. he wants to love and be loved and feel good about it. He wants to make one other person on earth the happiest girl ever. That's what I want too - to make him happy!)
I feel I AM being loving and affectionate
(yes, sometimes you are. BUT even those times you don't want to accept that I like it. If i'm happy and show you - you tell yourself i'm putting you on a pedestal or manipulating you. You turn the good stuff into bad. WHY? If you won't even accept the good things YOU do, how will you ever accept the good things I do?)
it's never enough for you
(if you mean sex once a year, you may be right 
I've spent two YEARS examining what it takes to make me happy - here tis:
1. a quick hug and kiss in the morning
2. sex a few times a week
3. affection and playfulness and flirting
4. being positive and loving and honest and open
5. willing to forgive and be forgiven
6. Show me that I'm special and worthy to you
7. be strong and brave and protective and possessive
8. think the best of me and help me to make you happy
This is too much??)
I don't think I can be the man you want me to be
(You have been, you can be, and when you are loving you ARE - but don't give me your worst and then throw up your hands in defeat and say 'oh she just doesn't like me')
I have to leave because you think i'm a failure
(I think you giving up on us is cowardly. I think you giving in to your dark thoughts and negativity is evil. I think how you are treating me is incorrigible. I think that you have a good woman who loves you and you are throwing her away because YOU don't think you are good enough. In effect blaming me. The ONLY failure is you giving up without a fight.)
I hate hurting you
(Then quit. forgive yourself. forgive me. Be loving.)

so yeah, some mixed signals there.

Sandy - well, I held on to the hope that he just didn't see what he was doing. That somehow his seemingly genuine sadness at saying he hated hurting me, that he only wants to leave because he feels like he can't be who i need and he feels like a failure as a husband (man did that hurt me) that he thought he was doing his best to be loving and affectionate and everything I need was REAL.

I felt sorry for him - I loved him, cared for him, thought he was going thru a bad time. Was hoping that showing him that I DID love him, that he was worthy, that I don't see him as a failure and helping him see what did make me happy (attention, love, affection, sex) was all it took for him to feel good about us again. 

Stupid me.


----------



## snix11

Grrrrrrr... You know, I can forgive failure. None of us are perfect. I can forgive him acting like an A$$hole over the last few months - his mom died, he's been thru hell. He has been beating himself about not being good enough for me (which is SOOO stupid as I love him, admire him and think the world of him!!! moron!!!) All he has to do to be good enough for anyone is to do his best. Same things any of us would do for a spouse - 

Admit when we are wrong. Say we are sorry and try to make amends
Make the other person your world and give them your trust and your heart
Make sure you think the best of them in your heart and your mind
Be open and honest with them
When they upset you or hurt you or make you frustrated or angry, TELL THEM! give them a chance to make amends and forgive them.
Be affectionate and sexy, learn what makes them happy and do it!
Forgive their insecurities and do everything you can to make them feel good about themselves. 
Make little promises and keep them - this builds trust
Don't be afraid of hard talks or arguments - fight fair and give the other person a chance. 
Don't clam up and think negative things in your head - Be afraid of NOT talking, of not sharing
Even tho it's scary and hurts sometimes, be honest and open.
Be yourself, clean and clear and bright. 

What I can't forgive - is him pushing me away - mentally, emotionally and physically. 

I can't forgive him quitting. I can't forgive him giving up. I can't forgive him keeping secrets and not keeping his promises. I can't forgive him not fighting his own negativity about us. And I sure am not likely to forgive him doing this on purpose - knowing it's hurting me, knowing how much I love him, knowing I would do anything for him. 

And
Not
stopping it


----------



## snix11

Now will somebody please tell me why - after reading the letter below he felt a need to come to me and lovingly tell me he read it. NOT one other word about it. Just "I read it" said with a loving look and a hug. 

WTF?

I want to talk with you, not at you.

I want to share thoughts and feelings like we use to. That requires us both to say things we aren’t comfortable with or are worried about the other person’s reaction. 

What I had tried to talk to you about tonight was what this relationship / friendship / whatever is going to look like while you are still here, and what it will look like when you are gone. I need to know what behavior to expect from you. 

You promised that if you slept in the bed with me that you would be affectionate (like you are with the kids) and treat me like I’m your woman. I don’t feel like we are very affectionate with each other and I sure don’t feel like you are still treating me like your woman. Every week, you pull back further and further away from being close and connected to me and us. Every week we talk and interact less and less. Either you don’t realize you are doing it (and we can work together to fix that minor thing and it may be a combination of things you are doing and things I’m perceiving. I’m willing to own my part of the problems and the solutions!) or you are doing it on purpose and need to let me know so I can expect it. 

You have gone from saying you want to be friends (but that’s not all) to best friends, to friends eventually. I don’t appreciate the progression. 

Talking less and less isn’t bringing us any closer together. Not taking chances on me won’t fix your problems. Either with us or yourself. I’m not saying that talking with me WILL fix everything in your universe – but either I’m your ******* (pet name that means alot to us, much like a religion) or I’m not. I may not always say the right thing. I may sound critical when I don’t mean to be. I may sound controlling when all I want is to grok. But you didn’t mind those qualities before. You knew I loved you then and took so many chances on me. You told me things you say you have never told anyone else. And I loved you and admired you all the more. 

I’m still the same person. I’m still in love with you. I still admire you. But you need to stop shutting me out and hurting me. 
You know I love you. You may not want to accept that or believe that, but you know it’s true. I’m willing to change for you – I’m willing to work thru any problems, fix things that upset and annoy you. What I ask in return is the same. I’m willing to forgive and BE forgiven. I’m willing to love and BE loved. Whether or not we live with each other at that point is immaterial. 

Last year (and this year) you told me that if the Steve Harley thing didn’t work out and the Kathy thing didn’t work out that you were willing to see somebody here in town before you called it quits. Are you still willing to keep that promise? If nothing else, a neutral party might help me understand you and hear you better. But only if you are REALLY willing to be honest. With them and with me. I can accept the fact that you no longer want me. I can even accept the fact that you are leaving and no longer love me. What I need help with – either from you being totally open with me and LOTS of talking or from a couples counselor is closure on WHY. 

The only thing I have left to salvage from this wreckage is the knowledge of what I did wrong. So that if anybody ever gives me their heart again, that I don’t **** it up this time. I’m not saying it’s all my fault. In fact I think we are both to blame. 

As long as you are living here, I’m not going to give up on trying to be close to you. As long as you don’t tell me, straight out that you hate me, don’t love me, don’t care about me at all and don’t want to be friends, I’m NOT going to stop bugging you to be close and honest and open with me. No matter how difficult on either of us. I’m not afraid of being hurt by your words or your true honesty, why are you?

I can’t promise not to cry. I can promise that if you keep shutting me out I WILL be angry. I can also promise that when you take and chance and are open and honest and your truest highest most loving self, you will like the results. 

I want my *********** back DAMNIT. And I don’t care who or what has him hostage. Until he looks me in the eye and tells me he doesn’t want me as a ********** anymore, I’m not going to believe it.


----------



## dcrim

NOT stupid you! Stupid him!!


----------



## snix11

but why would that letter get him all loving but silent? I don't get it.


----------



## Corpuswife

He may be on the fence....but if he tells you anything that you WANT to hear than you will be on that like "white on rice." 

Afterall, if this is a person who wants out. Then why isn't he gone? How many months has this behavior been going on? Has anything changed? 

When you feel trapped all you can think of is escaping. When you are released, you sometimes think...."do I really want to leave?" Releasing is not writing him letters (he already knows your feelings), not begging, not looking like you WANT him, etc. Be nice and sweet and involved in your own life! This may peak his curiosity.


----------



## dcrim

Snix, I've written letters like that, too...sigh. I was still lied to (and cheated on). I'm not saying that's what's happening to you...

You've read my thread. Stuff happens. Sometimes you just have to flush and get on with life. 

I know how much you love and want him, I've been there, too! 

Is the fight/effort worth it? Only you know. I had it crammed in my face before I was forced to give it up. 

Sometimes, I wonder what I could have done differently, too. But the conclusion is always the same...nothing. It wasn't me, it was her. 

This is not your fault, it's his. 

Heck, I'd kill (well, ok, not literally  ) for a love like yours! And would make sure there was never a doubt in her mind of mine!


----------



## snix11

Thanks dc. Bah. relationships. Maybe he's right. Hardly worth it.


----------



## MsStacy

snix11 said:


> Thanks dc. Bah. relationships. Maybe he's right. Hardly worth it.


TOTALLY not worth it! You have tried more than any living being would in your shoes. Follow CorpusWifes advice....Release Him!


----------



## dcrim

snix11 said:


> Thanks dc. Bah. relationships. Maybe he's right. Hardly worth it.


Relationships ARE worth it! But with the right one! PLEASE don't give up, girl!


----------



## snix11

Fine. He is hereby released from relationship status. I tell you three times!!


----------



## recent_cloud

i'm out of popcorn.

again. 

please put the psychodrama on hold.

i know an all night store.

i promise i'll be right back.

thank you.


----------



## MsStacy

:iagree: :iagree:

EXACTLY what you should do.


----------



## snix11

recent, things might be a little boring for a while. but keep the popcorn handy.


----------



## snix11

wow! 1000 posts! kewl  No wonder he says i never shut up... LOL


----------



## scarletblue

In answer to your questions (sorry it took me so long)..... It was me sleeping on the couch. That went on from July to Sept. The longest 3 months of my life. 

Understand that my circumstances were WAYYYYYY different than yours. We'd split up a few times in the past. The first time he dumped me and left me homeless when I was pregnant with our first child. The last time we'd split, he moved to the other side of the state with a co-worker of ours(I found out about it when I got to work). I caught him writing back and forth with a gal he worked with a few months before I decided I was done. The letters were rather graphic. There were many other incidents that happened, but I'll save it for writing a "movie of the week". I'd stuck by him, taken him back, forgiven him. 

In the end, it had gotten to the point where all he did was hang out in the garage with his buddies, doing drugs, watching rauncy porn.....leaving my oldest son (age 14) to watch his siblings. His mood swings had become volatile and it had gotten to the point where he slept through Christmas the last two years only to wake up to yell at the children for making noise.

Did he try after I told him I was done? He went from whining, to yelling, to guilt trips, to freaking out. I don't think it would have mattered what he'd done. I was done, no two ways about it. I ended up having to get a restraining order a few months after he moved out (death threats aren't fun).

Like I said, my situation was way different than yours. When I was done, I was DONE. I tried to end it on friendly terms, but that didn't quite work out. My ex was very controlling and it took me a while to "find myself" again. I did however, make sure I didn't give him mixed signals either. That's just not cool.

Hope I answered all your questions. I'm rooting for you!


----------



## snix11

Thanks for the info scarlett. Yeah, your situation is totally different, I can understand why you did what you did.


----------



## snix11

I never thought I would switch off my love. But I did. It was an event, but not even a big one.

It was just a little thing. A small cruel action in a sea of much bigger and more hurtful things. But that one small thing... I realized I had experienced my last hurt. To be put down and rejected in such an offhanded but direct manner. It was just too much.

The good news is his moods and actions and game playing don't affect me anymore. I don't cry or get angry when he's distant or selfish or cold. I don't react when he does his usual stuff to try and pick a fight. I notice it, acknowledge it, but don't react emotionally to it. I guess that's good. But I just feel dead inside.

I'm no longer sad. Or happy. I no longer get angry. Or joyful. I'm not longer sullen. Or playful. I'm just here. No joy, no spark no life. I'll fake it enough to get by and play social, but I really don't feel anything.

I don't really even care if I live or die. Death doesn't scare me or concern me, it sounds like a welcome nothingness. I don't like pain, but death it self sounds like a relief. It's not like i'm going to go jump off a cliff or anything, I just don't really care one way or the other. Just kind of a total 'whatever' to life. 

From sadness, to anger, to panic, to trying, to positive self change to apathy.

I'm still learning to live with the new regime. How strange that we have to keep this farce going in front of his friends. I have to make excuses for him not wanting to be with me as a couple. whatever. His friends. He can handle them any way he wants. I'm just along for the ride. Yes dear. No dear. whatever.


----------



## recent_cloud

i think you're finally in 'acceptance'.

it can feel like apathy.

or maybe you're allowing for one more chance.

one thing you said i'd like to ask about:

"I'm just along for the ride. Yes dear. No dear. whatever."

based on what you say has changed, why are you now along for the ride, and what is the ride.

and last, if things really have changed for you, then can you tell me where i can unload a palette of orville redenbacher.


----------



## snix11

I guess this is acceptance. But I expected to feel relief. Or peace. Or joy. Something. something positive. Not this dead nothingness.
Not so much apathy I no longer care what happens. 

No, not allowing for any more chances. I'm thru. done. finis. I quit. He won. I concede. My best wasn't good enough. So be it. 

I'm along for the ride because I don't care. I no longer care enough to tell him the truth when i'm sad, or angry or hurt. I no longer care when he is sweet or polite. I no longer care when he rejects me, teases me, or is angry. 

"The ride" is just living one day to the next, doing what has to be done, faking the politeness because it's required for social interaction. Not expecting anything good. Not hoping for anything. Not reacting to anything. Smiling when I'm supposed to. Acting appropriately in social situations. Taking my cues from him as to what he expects me to do say etc. 

I suggest you keep your popcorn. I hear the pandemic is just around the bend this fall. Or you can use it for insulation. whichever.


----------



## Corpuswife

This is difficult. It's like you are hitting a depression (lack of feeling) from your last message. 

If you choose, perhaps choose no more excuses and no more cues needed as to what to say. You will need to be the one in control and do what is best for you. If you want to tell someone, then do....it is up to you. It sounds like you are still giving him power.


----------



## snix11

Eh... I don't even care enough to fight it. 

It's easier just to not say anything until spoken to. To nod and smile in the right places. He never really wants to know what I think anyway. I guess in a way it's relief because my heart is no longer on my sleeve. No point in sharing with someone who doesn't want to know. He's right, my telling him the truth when he didn't want to know it WAS pushy and controlling. My bad.


----------



## dcrim

(((*** HUGS ***))) - LOTS of them!!


----------



## snix11

thanks dc. but as you know... eh.


----------



## snix11

I had a really nice time at Schlitterbahn today. Nice water park. Kind of a last hurrah.


----------



## Rhea

Hey there's one of those opening here supposed to be open by the end of the Summer...

Btw Snix, smile when YOU want to, nod when YOU want to, decide what YOU want to do, take no cues from HIM. This is about YOU taking control of YOURSELF, therefor YOU need to making decisions for YOU. If your pissy be pissy, if you're content act content. Don't fake sh*t for him. Don't hide, nor put on any sort of show to save his face. He's in the situation that he's in because HE wants to be in it. So let him deal w/the consequences now. Don't let him be the deciding factor of when you talk or how your day goes. Sweetie you've taken back control of you so please please please control you. You are your own person and by deciding not to deal w/his BS anymore you get to be YOU.


----------



## scarletblue

I have felt a state of numbness too. For me, it was just part of the "ride" on the emotional roller coaster. I think it happened for me when I was just so emotionally overloaded. Trying to figure out how I was going to make ends meet, putting on a front for the kids, friends, work. It is all very emotionally draining. At night, I would sit and watch TV and not even really know what I was watching.

Finally, I got mad at myself for doing it. I started journaling my thoughts and feelings. So much better to get them out rather than keep them inside. Pretty much doing what you're doing on here. I wrote down lists of what I needed to do for the day/week/month. Checking things off the list helped me to realize that I was still doing/accomplishing things. And doing it myself too! It became very empowering. 

I embraced how even grocery shopping was a different experience. I didn't have to buy everything "he" liked any more. I had all the kids and bills and 1/2 the money, and I got by! There are programs out there to help. Don't be embarassed to utilize them. That is what they are there for. I got myself some new clothes (so what if they were from a second hand store).

What I'm trying to say (in a rather long winded fashion) is that this phase will pass. Don't let depression take over. Take control of your life and enjoy doing it. Yes, it's scary, but it can also be an awesome experience!


----------



## snix11

Well, it doesn't FEEL like depression. Having gone thru that for over a year now, it sure doesn't feel the same. I don't want to sleep all the time, I'm not crying for no reason. I can function. 

I'm just - shut off. I have no desire to do anything for me specifically. Even playing with the kids seems more like watching a movie. Take it or leave it. I don't feel guilty for not doing more things, I don't feel elated under any circumstances. When by myself, my face is just blank, but I've found I can play social as long as I need to. But it's not real. I guess it's that I don't feel anything. I'm not sad, or depressed, or mad, or angry. Oh happy or joyful or hopeful or interested. Just kind of blank. I smile when it's appropriate, and say all the right things. But it's more like i'm observing my life rather than living it. 

The best part about it is I no longer WANT anything. not from him, not from anybody. I no longer ask him for hugs or snuggles, I no longer need him for anything. I'm just there. I feel like i'm in a holding pattern, that I can keep up forever, just waiting for him to finally leave and finish dumping me so I can push play again and get on with my life. 

And nobody notices. How's that for strange?


----------



## dcrim

Well..I'd notice! (((*** HUGS ***))) girl!!!


----------



## snix11

I'm not angry. I'm apathetic. Emotionally dead. I appreciate what I have, and don't care about anything else. It's a peace of sorts. It's just SO different from the passionate, living, loving, make every moment count kind of person I was. 

I'll just go back to what I was doing before I met DH. I'll live for the kids and working. Honestly thinking about what "I" want has been foreign to me all my life.

It was only when I met this wonderful guy that I started thinking that maybe I could have someone to love me too! That maybe I had finally met a man who would love me and stay by me and always be true. And I really truly thought it was him. 

Stupid me. So now that I'm back to being a single mom, no sex life and living for the kids and working, I'd hardly think I need anything more. Gave up my dreams and hopes. I sure didn't want to - fought it tooth and nail. But some things are just not meant to be. So I'm just accepting things the way they are.

Not good enough to be loved. Not good enough for a husband. Yes, I realize it's my fault. I also realize there really isn't anything I can do about it. My very best wasn't good enough. So be it. It feels rather good to not care about that anymore.


----------



## Corpuswife

YOU ARE WRONG! You may feel this way, but you know that this wasn't your fault. I am sure that somehow you played a role (nobody's perfect) but your husband is making a choice as well. He is choosing to walk away from the relationship. This is his choice.

You will surive this. In Chinese the symbols for CRISIS is danger and opportunity. I think this just about sums up what many of us are feeling, in our relationships.




snix11 said:


> Not good enough to be loved. Not good enough for a husband. Yes, I realize it's my fault. I also realize there really isn't anything I can do about it. My very best wasn't good enough. So be it. It feels rather good to not care about that anymore.


----------



## dcrim

You ARE good enough to be loved. 

You ARE good enough for a husband. 

It's not (all) your fault; HE's the one that made the decision to leave. 

You've made a herculean effort but he still wants to leave. No one will ever be able to say you didn't give it your best effort!


----------



## Sandy55

"Stupid me. So now that I'm back to being a single mom, no sex life and living for the kids and working, I'd hardly think I need anything more. Gave up my dreams and hopes. I sure didn't want to - fought it tooth and nail. But some things are just not meant to be. So I'm just accepting things the way they are.

Not good enough to be loved. Not good enough for a husband. Yes, I realize it's my fault. I also realize there really isn't anything I can do about it. My very best wasn't good enough. So be it. It feels rather good to not care about that anymore."
__________________

Oh, for crying out loud, STOP the pity party Snix! 

You are just in a dumpy mood...you act like you are 102 and no future. 

This is just a damn blip on the radar screen of life.....

Saying you are not good enough to be loved is just horse hockey! Saying it is your fault is just more horse hockey! 

ETC, ETC, ETC......

Bite a piece of him off, chew him up and spit him out, woman!

Then go rinse with Listerine and MOVE on! 

Hut, two, three, four....

Do I need to kick your butt for you?


----------



## dcrim

Rotflol!!!


----------



## Sandy55

Yes, I was in the Marines.....think Rambo.


----------



## recent_cloud

kate hepburn

rambo

yeah.


----------



## dcrim

We in the Navy called them BAMs - Broad A$$ Marines!  

When the services were being formed...the Army got the K9 corps...the Navy got the Marines! 

The Marine emblem...The Air Force gave them the air, the Army gave them the world...the Navy shoved the anchor up their a$$!  LOL

I could go on...  

Sandy, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!!!! As one vet to another. It is appreciated and acknowledged! "it don't mean nothing"...


----------



## snix11

Feel free to do what you want Sandy. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, it's just the way things are. Acceptance means accepting your limitations too. Giving up your dreams (if they are stupid and unattainable) and just doing what you have to do to get by.

I smile in the right places. I laugh when i'm expected to. I talk when someone talks to me. I say the right things. I may not find happiness in this life, but honestly I've had plenty. I'm grateful for my kids and my health. I'm grateful for every wonderful moment. I'm thankful for the wonderful love I gave and was given in return. It was a good ride


----------



## dcrim

Just don't give on it, though, Snix! It is still available!


----------



## preso

snix11 said:


> Acceptance means accepting your limitations too. Giving up your dreams (if they are stupid and unattainable) and just doing what you have to do to get by.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> acdeptance means accepting your dreams may need to be based in reality as our dreams change from when we first have them. When I was about 11.... I wanted to be a lawyer as we had a family friend ( female) who was one and I was obsessed with how cool she was. Obviously I don't care to go to 7 years od school to be one, so I modified my dream to be a working woman who made enough to have a nice life.
> Dreams are modified to our resources, personality, energy levels and they change through life... we do not give up on them.
> 
> My dream now is a new dream as I'm in a new phase of life now and have adapted ( to give you an example) about
> my husbands retirment and moving across the country. To ready for that I have to do the work ( de-cluttering, getting the house ready to sell)... we have to work on our dreams to make them happen.


----------



## snix11

Exactly.

If the dream is unattainable, drop it. In my case, my dream had to do with something out of my hands - a partners returning my love and devotion for them with the same. I did what I could, still failed. And that's ok. I'm glad I tried. I'm glad I quit. 

I can now focus on the important things in my life and give up the stupid notions of love, relationships and sex.


----------



## snix11

wow. what a night. i'm still processing it. First sex in months. 

I'm just not sure what to think about it. but YUMMMMMMM....


----------



## StrongEnough

snix11 said:


> wow. what a night. i'm still processing it. First sex in months.
> 
> I'm just not sure what to think about it. but YUMMMMMMM....


This may sound like a silly question, but why are you still sleeping with a man who is planning to leave you?


----------



## snix11

you know... i asked myself that same exact question this morning. Then decided that I really didn't want to go down that line of questioning and tabled it. 

I don't know why it happened - I don't know why he held me so tenderly afterward. I don't know why he held my hand lovingly while he fell asleep. I don't know why he doesn't mention it today and is back to his usual self. 

I never figured it was any type of lasting change or epiphany on his part. I chalked it up to a fun time after he got back from the tit bar. 

I'm just glad I finally got some.. and if it was going to be anyone, that it was someone I knew and loved. shrug. 

But... he was wonderful  Yes, I'm a sex ****.. lol... but only for him... I'll get over him when he leaves, but till then, I guess I'm just living for the moment.


----------



## Rhea

_*I don't know why it happened - I don't know why he held me so tenderly afterward. I don't know why he held my hand lovingly while he fell asleep. I don't know why he doesn't mention it today and is back to his usual self.*_

Because he can and you let him...

go ahead ask me how I know...

cause I let mine do the same thing...

except you're one step ahead of me. 

At first I thought it meant I had a chance...

However now I just know it means I get a good lay...

And he just gets to continue on...well two can play that game

Use me...I'll use you, as long as we're both on the same page. 


_****RC you are not allowed to respond to this post.*** *_


----------



## snix11

Rhea... did you finally spank him properly?


----------



## Rhea

Girl I've been spanking him for 6 months...just haven't told anyone here 

and he still comes back.


----------



## recent_cloud

Rhea said:


> Girl I've been spanking him for 6 months...just haven't told anyone here
> 
> and he still comes back.


you should be clear about who was, is, spanking whom.

ah rhea you're supple yet firm.


----------



## Rhea

Was...

is...

lol...

d*mn wish I had something good to add here...

give me a minute.


----------



## dcrim

Rotflol!!!


----------



## recent_cloud

Rhea said:


> Was...
> 
> is...
> 
> lol...
> 
> d*mn wish I had something good to add here...
> 
> give me a minute.


time's up. bend over.


----------



## dcrim

Ok you two! GET A ROOM!!!


----------



## Rhea

dcrim said:


> Ok you two! GET A ROOM!!!



LOL Dcrim...we were just havin fun. No room needed lol. 

Happy Friday and now back to Snix's thread. 

Snix?


----------



## snix11

Hi guys..... Recent, pass the popcorn, this is getting good


----------



## snix11

I'm musing today over why he said i raped him the other night. He seemed pretty willing. But then again, he's said that before. Never in a 'wow, that was great!' way, just in a 'by the way' kind of offhand manner.

I offered him a drink yes, but raped? He was jokey about it, but why even say that? And why wait till I 'rape' him to do anything sexual for months? I don't get it. I miss when he showed me he was sexually interested in me. I miss him being dominant. I like it when it's at least equal and honestly I prefer the man to initiate sex. And after months of rejection by him, I'm *really *gun shy about initiating it myself.

But I feel I don't dare ask him about anything or try to bring anything up or he will get frustrated and angry with me about it. Then he either yells or shuts down for days with the cold silent treatment. We don't talk about 'us' or 'feelings' or 'reasons' or 'relationships' at ALL any more. Kids, dinner, his work, mars, religion, taxes etc. All safe topics. Anything about us, verboten. sigh.

He asked me to tickle his back. I did.
He moved the covers so I could tickle his legs and butt. I did.
He got a hard on, I tickled that too  *my bad?*
He then turned over and attacked me in the most wonderful way, even giving me a hickey and holding me so lovingly afterwards. 

How is that rape? What did I do wrong?

Then the next day to act like it never happened. I tried to bring it up but got one word responses and him looking out the window being silent. so I stopped trying to say anything or get any info. 

I don't know if he's angry with me, embarrassed that it happened, just playing coy, or something else I haven't fathomed.

It's a little confusing...:scratchhead:


----------



## MsStacy

snix11 said:


> How is that rape? What did I do wrong?


Because by saying that YOU did it, and YOU took advantage of him, HE has NO RESPONSIBILITY.


----------



## snix11

ohhhh... i get it.. it's a 'thou shall not have responsibility thing?' sheesh

He's really nice. like a friend these days. very friendly. making sure not to be close, or loving or romantic or gawd forbid, personal. But he's nice, and sweet and funny and friendly. 

But being around him is a constant and unending reminder that i am a failure

failure as a wife (he didn't even want to marry me - whatever I did, he no longer wanted me for a wife - i've been declared "not you" as in I want somebody but NOT YOU)
failure as a lover (he no longer desires me - wish I knew how I screwed up in that field, would be nice to be able to fix that part)
failure as a friend (I wasn't enough to keep him)
failure as a woman (he no longer admires me, wants me, loves me)

So i'm TRYING to be friends. Not to think of him romantically any more. But its like I can EITHER be really angry at how he's treating me personally, or ignore the fact that there ever was anything personal between us and just pretend to be close roommates. But it's very very hard. I'm still physically attracted to him, I still admire things he does, I still smile at his jokes and like it when he is nice. How am I ever supposed to just 'turn it off' like he has? 

Then of course being both that time of the month AND having gone cold turkey off the anti-depressents I'm a bit more prone to these nasty things called 'feelings' 

He says i'm calmer on them. Well sure. Leaving me? cool. Dumping me? it's ok. Don't like me? ok. but to me it's like a 'fake' calm - not natural to be happy and calm when someone treats you like this. 

I don't know. Sometimes it's like I can't quite figure out what to do. Blah.


----------



## Rhea

It's one helluva a road trip traveling back to friends from lovers...trust me I know. 

I guess it all just depends on whether you think the work is worth it or not.


----------



## nightshade

I didn't read every post, but wow, snix, I cannot believe the patience you have! 

Although, why are you the failure? You've tried and tried and tried. Has he? I guess you can't fail when you never try, right?


----------



## dcrim

Hey, Snix - can you possibly be more self deprecating?!? We've all told you, over and over, IT'S NOT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## snix11

`but dc, as he so often reminds me, you only know my half of the story. Not knowing his, and knowing how loving and rational he seems with everybody else in his life, I can only surmise that I did something so horrible he can't forgive me for it. And something so horrible that he can't even fathom telling me what it was. But for the life of me, I can't imagine what that something was. 

lots of people (his close family members) do things that really upset him - one aunt not being on his mom's deathbed due to a personal conflict with someone else being an example. But he tells her - I'm angry right now, not talking to you, but I love you and will eventually get over it. He may hold a grudge for months against this woman, but at least he loves her enough to say "This is why I'm angry, this is what you did that I can't forgive right now, but I'll get over it" 

But with me, it's just "I don't want you anymore" and "lets just be friends and pretend we were never any closer"

Just wish I knew what I did that is so unforgivable, so 'untry-able'

He will also tell me "I can't be the man you need me to be" That baffled me. He was the man I wanted and needed, or I wouldn't have gotten together with him! It's true he's not trying right now - but that he 'can't' is ridiculous. It seems that somehow I made him think he wasn't good enough by asking for too much - Sex 3x a week, dating 1x a week, affection, honesty and some fun romance on both sides. He says he can only do that when he feels it, not because he wants to or plans on it. Makes no sense to me. A few times when he has made a real effort to try, he's amazed me. 

I just don't understand the back and forth, the closing me out of the reasons he's leaving, the acting like friends is all we have ever been etc.


----------



## Rhea

Snix, men loving their families is different than men loving their women. Mine too is loving towards his family and friends and there's one woman in his life whom he knows he cannot "be with" because she is married and her morals will keep her from being w/him, so he loves on her in a friendly way because he has no other choice.

He doesn't have to nurture his family, he doesn't have to explain why he is who he is or why he acts how he acts to his family. He doesn't have to "give" per sey to his family the way he has to "give" to a relationship with a woman...make sense? 

I say these things because I have watched over the years my recent ex's actions, I watch them now, and I watch the way he treats me as opposed to the way he treats other women, his family, and his friends....


----------



## nightshade

Rhea is right, those relationships are completely different than the one he has with you. 

I used to wonder why my husband seemed to take out all his frustrations on me, but could be perfectly friendly and not mopey around everyone else. My thinking, was that being the most important person in his life he should try not to take it out on me, his thinking being that I should be the one person he could just be himself and not have to be nice. I've come to just accept that.

Not that helps you understand your guy and your situation, but it just illustrates the point they see them very differently.


----------



## recent_cloud

nightshade said:


> My thinking, was that being the most important person in his life he should try not to take it out on me, his thinking being that I should be the one person he could just be himself and not have to be nice. I've come to just accept that.


damn and geebus he thinks because you're the most important person in his life he gets to abuse you

and you allow his theory to prevail.

as you say, you accept that.

damn and geebus again.

the least important to the most important people in my life are treated with respect dignity and honesty.


----------



## Rhea

The word Geebus makes me giggle.:smthumbup:


----------



## recent_cloud

i got this emoticomicon:rules:and this:loser:andand:banned2:

:fro::cat::banhim::banghead::butterfly::nono::
:smthumbup::sleeping::rofl:but:scratchhead:
:toast:uppy:no frog:banghead::FIREdevil::nono:
:fish::fish::fish::fish::fish::fish:
:fish::fish::fish:is mommy22 trying to say:FIREdevil::bsflag:
:fish::fish:i sleep with the fishes:fish::fish::fish:
:FIREdevil:she took my frog:FIREdevil::nono:
:fish::fish:and left a fish:fish::fish::fish:
if i never post again
:soapbox::rules::whip::moon:call the police:banned2:


----------



## recent_cloud

forgive me

it's kinda like break dancing.


----------



## nightshade

recent_cloud said:


> damn and geebus he thinks because you're the most important person in his life he gets to abuse you
> 
> and you allow his theory to prevail.
> 
> as you say, you accept that.
> 
> damn and geebus again.
> 
> the least important to the most important people in my life are treated with respect dignity and honesty.


Yes, because I don't feel like fighting about it over and over. That wouldn't change a thing. Idiotic on my part, perhaps.


----------



## snix11

Interesting posts everybody. 

Well, he complimented me the other day. Took me totally by surprise. He said he liked the bracelet I had on. Could have knocked me over with a feather. I realized it has gotten to the point where I no longer expect compliments of any kind and even a small one like that is so unusual I notice. 

Yesterday he saw I was posting here when he came over to see what I was doing. He saw I posted "he came back and said he wanted to try, the least you could do is give him a chance" He looked at that and smiled, then touched the tip of my nose lovingly and sweetly. 

I have really been wrestling with "right thing to do morally vs right thing to do for me" I'm going down in flames financially - can't afford the utility bills, can't afford the mortgage, don't qualify for all these wonderful mortgage readjustments. Figure 60 days before they kick me out. How does that work? I have land next door that is paid for - three acres with no electricity or water. I wonder if they will let me squat there? it IS mine. Living in tents?? Gosh I have NO idea what I'm going to do  I'm making maybe 500 a month, not enough for anything, much less an apartment if I have five kids. My credit is ruined because BOA lowered all my cc limits even tho I never missed a payment so it looks like i'm both over the limit and at 99% credit utilized all the time. Bastards.

Back to right vs right. It's right to let him go before he goes down with this sinking ship. It's right for 'me' to keep him around because he's the only one making money right now (even tho he only worked two days last week, they are cutting his hours too, argh) But I told him, look - I'm 1000.00 past bug out. We agreed long time ago if things got bad financially and there was no hope in sight, we would take our last 5k and move somewhere - but in that same conversation he let me know if I went broke, we wouldn't be moving together. 

And told him "I know what I have to do, but not how to do it" I said he needed to leave as soon as he could, that I had to get him some money so he could leave and no longer worry about staying till I'm financially stable as that didn't look like it was going to happen. Told him about possibly squatting on my land next door, about not having a car etc. He just said nothing, but held my hand. I think it was a thank you for letting me go kind of thing plus a 'sorry you are in this mess' I guess even this is one of those things we 'don't talk about' geez, another verboten subject. sigh. And when I really need someone to talk to rationally about all this too. 

The shelter won't let us in San Antonio, I have no family or friends to stay with anywhere and three kids under 10 to try and worry about. I just got my 112th resume rejection letter "thank you and your resume is very impressive but we won't be interviewing you for position X" and am clueless as to what to do.


----------



## Corpuswife

Obviously, you will need out of the house regardless. 

The first thing to do is find shelter...

Here is a link for a family shelter/transitional housing in S.A.
SAMMinistries Programs- Transitional Living and Learning Center, Emergency Shelter, Transitional Housing Program, Permanent Housing- Housing First Program

If they can't help you ask for other resources from them. It's suprising how many organizations there are in cities...often it's hard to know about them all. Since you have some time, get on a list.

Perhaps get on the San Antonio Authority waiting list..
San Antonio Housing Authority. 

You need to take care of your shelter for your family first.


----------



## snix11

Thanks Corpus Wife - I called the SAMM place - their waiting list right now is over two years. The San Antonio Housing Authority has had no openings for even applicants for over 18 months and the waiting list is now estimated to be over 18,000 families and nine years. My daughter, who has been on the list for the last four years and has a disability is now at position 2176 and estimated to be eligible for housing assistance in the next four years. 

Yes, there are programs, but too many waiting in line. I'm also looking at bankruptcy, etc. My biggest problem is figuring out where to go once we lose the house. There are quite a few rentals out there with everybody foreclosing, but they are all out of my budget and my FICO score won't support a rental. 

Tried them a few months ago 

Thanks anyway. I went ahead and sent another email to SAMM. perhaps they know of something.


----------



## dcrim

aawww, damn, Snix...I'll GLADLY have you..and the kids!

You know I'm so sorry for your situation! If there was any way I could help, I would! 

I don't have a T1, but I do have free cable 'net!  Not the same, but still fast. 

Damn, baby...I wish I had a magic lamp! Or something...


----------



## snix11

it's ok DC... something will come of it. Honestly if you lived in SA I would take you up on it. But I can't leave SA due to the ex and court says 'no moving with the kids' etc. 

So.... Over to plan C... which is

uh

um...

in progress


----------



## Corpuswife

Wow...that is some waiting list. Hard times for many.

Well your children weren't immaculately conceived. How about their daddy helping???? Not to get too personal....


----------



## DownButNotOut

Wow, snix.  I wish there were something I could do to help too. But Maine is a long way from Tx.

Evil thought...but Corpus might be on to something.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that that case is opened back up. Then goes to full financial disclosure. Mr. rotten-ex thought he would soak you for more in a new divorce...but if you have less than nothing, and his children still need support...well...

I'm not a lawyer, but with your current, and changed, financial situation, maybe asking your lawyer for advice?


----------



## snix11

The lawyer quit last month - but I already know most of the scenarios. 

The ex has put the suit on 'hold' for now as I don't have anything worth going after (ie money) and can keep it on hold for another two years. So he's just going to wait and see if I make some money so he can take it. 

He is paying child support, a whopping 320 a month. Not exactly enough to live on. 

The other father isn't working and doesn't have enough to pay child support so that's not much help. He did, however take his son for the last month so I could get some things done here and make it a little easier. But they are struggling also. 

I'm just hoping something will give.

DH was sweet again yesterday. He's sooooo nice and friendly. It's hard to believe this 'friend' is leaving and doesn't want me any more. Strange times.

We seem to get along quite well as long as I avoid the 'bad' topics like moving out, feelings, sex, relationships, the future, dates, affection, needs. He said he wanted to be 'real' with me again - I really loved how we could talk to each other about anything - how easy and wonderful it was to have someone to share any thought or feeling with. Now it just feels superficial and shallow on the important topics. Not bad, mind you, but not close either. I miss that. 

The relationship is dead, but he's still here. Living with a zombie indeed. The walking dead. At least he's a pleasant zombie and hasn't tried to eat my brains yet 

He even gave me a very warm hug before he left for work this morning


----------



## snix11

got home at 130am... now pulling an all nighter to catch up with my data recovery work. Hey, at least it's work


----------



## snix11

Wow, you'd think for somebody getting home at 130am exhausted from working, and then doing more computer work all night at home he'd be more... oh i don't know. something. 

I'm mildly disappointed today, but I haven't quite put my finger on why. Must be lack of sleep.


----------



## Corpuswife

I hate the feeling of trying to guess about things. How they are feeling; how they are going to come home; what that touch means; why they didn't look at you a certain way...

Oh my. YOu can drive yourself crazy with overanalyzing. You can also drive yourself crazy having any expectations from them.

In this mode, they are being very selfish. They REALLY don't know what they want. Afterall, if he wants to be gone then why isn't he? Why not get his act together and go? What is holding him back? You may not have these answers. Perhaps he doesn't either. He is just going on pure feeling and little intellect.


----------



## snix11

exhaustion is a good barrier to worry, feelings, cares etc. 

Get tired enough and really nothing else matters.


----------



## snix11

Still tired. lol... should be able to sleep tonight i hope. wish i had someone to lovingly snuggle with... ahhh daydreams 

WARNING: NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART ~

I remember being held and snuggled and gently kissed... neck nuzzles and long strong arms holding me - spooning me from behind, fitting together like the nickel of a revolver and it's holster. 

His arms stroking mine, playing lazily over my shoulders and back, coming to brush feather light over my nipples, making them tight and hard and achy for more. The feel of his legs behind me, pressed against mine, barely moving, rubbing my thighs ever so slightly but rhythmically. The scritchy brush of a salt and pepper silky pelt of his chest, falling dark water downward, disappearing below his belt hiding my favorite secrets. 
I remember how tenderly but insistently he used to hold me and now - 

how horizon distant the gulf of a quiet and quick 'good night' sounds from across the ocean of bed between us. Rolling over, eyes growing accustomed to the dark, both lost in their own thoughts.

Must be nostalgia night...


----------



## scarletblue

Ever think about writing romance novels? I used to read them all the time and what you just wrote there is perfect! You can do it from home and make some good money too! 

I want an autographed copy if you do, tough.

Also, leave out the brain eating.


----------



## snix11

what no brain eating? damn.. what is a good bodice ripping novel without a zombie... sheesh


----------



## scarletblue

Well, if they are all zombies I guess it's OK. I"ve never read a good zombie romance. You may have something here.


----------



## scarletblue

I'm trying to envision it and it's making me giggle.

Like that scene from 9 & 1/2 Weeks, only only zombie style.


----------



## snix11

I guess it would bring new meaning to the phrase: 

"His eyes slid down her dress..."

Muahahahaha.... ewwwww.....ahem...


----------



## snix11

Lonely again tonight... but I won't bore you with the details...

Good night everybody


----------



## Dark Angel

Dont let it get you down Snix.

I know the feeling. It haunts me too.

Its like being in as crowded room, but it might as well be the middle of the desert with not soul for hundreds of miles.

Like the desolation of snow covered fields, which are yet undisturbed by the living.

Like being lost inside the darkness with no light to guide you.

You must have faith Snix. There are people there for you.

you arent alone, its just quiet and it feels like it.

Sleep well.


----------



## snix11

Well he's being really really nice now. Sweet and kind and loving and giving. Even gives me a hug in the morning before he goes to work every day. Calls me from work, asks me out, does little nice things, is playful and sweet and funny. 

We don't argue at all, not even about little things. If there is a problem he caused, I just fix it where I used to complain. I assume he does the same. I wouldn't say we are close, but it's more than cordial. 

I have trouble thinking about him leaving - I just put it out of my mind. I can't control the when or why, so it's really best not to think about it. The better my life is, the more he ramps up leaving - the happier I am with myself the more he pulls away. 

So if I'm destitute and totally depressed he is the most loving, giving and sweet and there for me. 

If I'm happy, confident and perky and make some money he's distant, gobbling up porn, looking for new places to live and new girls to meet - basically running for the door and from me. I just don't get that.

Doesn't that seem backwards?


----------



## recent_cloud

snix11 said:


> Doesn't that seem backwards?


i'd guess it's more counterintuitive than backwards to you.

and that's part of what has had you spinning for some time now.

you advised i not sell my gross of popcorn and i took your advice.

apparently you are more prescient about your situation than you know


----------



## Sandy55

RC - "apparently you are more prescient about your situation than you know"

Part and parcel of denial?


----------



## snix11

Sandy, correct me if i'm wrong - 

but in order to deny something, or be in denial, don't you first have to 

Affirm something? 

I can't imagine what I affirmed that isn't obvious - 

He's leaving
I don't know why
He's acting such (in my eyes) 
It's a strange and lonely time for me

I don't think he will stay, or if he ever even loved me
All I do know is what he says and what he does
they are not always the same
so it's difficult to know
which way to jump

So I'm just kind of floating thru the days, more and more dreamlike. It's not bad, but it feels disconnected. 

Maybe nobody ever really does love anybody
perhaps it's all just a misfiring neuron, a random bit of 
chemicals - the sole cause is to propagate more gametes. 

Ah the scientist in me fights with the romantic. lol

Dr. Snix vs. the imp. 

Goodnight everybody.


----------



## snix11

Another sleepless night wanting lovin... why am I so stupid?? I keep coming on to him sexually, he keeps ignoring me. DUH girl, get he hint. 

He was angry when he thought i had sex with somebody else, but he doesn't want me himself. I don't get that. WTF??? What am I, some knick nack to be put on a shelf??

I want to get me some before I'm too old dangit. I never had much sex in my teens and 20's, didn't even have my first O till I was 29. Lived thru 10 barren years in my 30's. I feel like i want to make up for lost time! There is so much I want to experiment with, try, do etc. A whole world out there of growing closer to someone, of learning and feeling and such. Toys and tantric sex and games and flirting and just plain old necking. I miss all that, I really DO!!

I feel like every day, every moment that goes by without that is just lost forever - time you never get back. Grf.


----------



## recent_cloud

snix11 said:


> Another sleepless night wanting lovin... why am I so stupid?? I keep coming on to him sexually, he keeps ignoring me. DUH girl, get he hint.


um yeah. but the odd thing is you call his behaviour a "hint". 

i wonder how you define a "clue".






snix11 said:


> He was angry when he thought i had sex with somebody else, but he doesn't want me himself. I don't get that. WTF??? What am I, some knick nack to be put on a shelf??


apparently yes.



snix11 said:


> I feel like every day, every moment that goes by without that is just lost forever - time you never get back. Grf.


yes every day every moment is lost forever. i've watched (well read) in frustration as you've wasted every day and just about every minute of your life since i joined this site.

and you're right you never will get that time back.

you like spinning in your drama and i'm not going to enable you any more but instead sit back pop some popcorn and enjoy the show, the wonderfully emotionally baroque show, the incredibly kinetic intellectually opaque show that is you, snix.


----------



## snix11

intellectually opaque? Sheesh 

Another wild weekend. Still trying to sort everything out.


----------



## Loving Husband

snix11 said:


> Another sleepless night wanting lovin... why am I so stupid?? I keep coming on to him sexually, he keeps ignoring me. DUH girl, get he hint.
> 
> He was angry when he thought i had sex with somebody else, but he doesn't want me himself. I don't get that. WTF??? What am I, some knick nack to be put on a shelf??
> 
> I want to get me some before I'm too old dangit. I never had much sex in my teens and 20's, didn't even have my first O till I was 29. Lived thru 10 barren years in my 30's. I feel like i want to make up for lost time! There is so much I want to experiment with, try, do etc. A whole world out there of growing closer to someone, of learning and feeling and such. Toys and tantric sex and games and flirting and just plain old necking. I miss all that, I really DO!!
> 
> I feel like every day, every moment that goes by without that is just lost forever - time you never get back. Grf.


Wow.. I think you just woke up and realized there is so much you want to do and try before you get too old. I can tell you I am in the same boat. My wife has told me that maybe I am too advanced for her right now. She is in her mid-thirties and the list you said I could only dream she would say. I don't know how old you are but good for you for wanting to have some fun.. :lol::smthumbup:


----------



## snix11

Thanks loving husband... hardly a 'just woke up moment' more like a 
'just articulated it moment' 

Even tho H will 'consent' to having sex with me, it just feels like he's doing it to be co-operative rather than really wanting to. I finally see what you guys mean when the wife will just 'lay there' and let you do them. He does try, but you can tell it's a mental and emotionally effort even if the physical feels great. 

I don't want sex to be a chore for him, and I feel like a heel for asking him (ok begging) him to have sex with me. 

Why is it so hard just to want it? I know he does - just not with me. Sigh. 

I never thought reciprocal sexual interest would be so damn difficult to maintain. Perhaps I'm just doomed to having about 100 sexual partners for a few weeks till they get bored of me too? Blech. oh well.

Does it bother me that he looks at porn alot? Yes. Why? It never did when we were dating. True. Difference?

When we were dating, those girls were not his main interest, 
I WAS. 
When we were dating, those girls weren't what he really lusted after, 
I WAS. 
They were fake and fun and as real as toys. He used them to get himself feeling sexy, but turned to me for his REAL enjoyment. 
I was real and wanted and needed and desired. 
Now he acts like I'm this nice 'thing' that lives with him. Oh, she's nice, he would say to a stranger. This weekend, when a stranger we met was asking us if we were married, I said no - then he piped in that we were 'together'. (We are? In what way? Hrumph.) Now mind you, I make it a habit NEVER to contradict my man in public, or argue in public. But I sure wish I knew what THAT 'together' statement was all about. 

He told me he now wants me to tell people we are separated. Uh, ok. (He tells people we are together and wants me to tell them we are separated... um... i better pay cash, somebody's reality check bounced) 

I asked him later if he felt we were separated. He said 'how could we be, we live together' 
me - Well we are separated in every other way 
- he had no response for that. Very confusing. 

Are we together? if so in what way?
Are we Separated? is so when did this happen and in what way?
Are we married? divorced? dating? seeing each other? Sleeping together? roommates? co-parents? co-conspirators? WHAT????

I have NO idea what this relationship is. He told me he now feels like he is in limbo. Welcome to my world. I said the only way I knew out of limbo was to DO something. Anything - motion begets motion. 

Bah.


----------



## snix11

Another sleepless night. 
Another morning with no hugs as he left.
NO, i'm not going to care! so there!

Time for the letter? thinking... Maybe i should change it tho. 

sigh.


----------



## Loving Husband

Hon I am sorry to hear that but you talked about sex and you wanting it but he doesn't. It's like that in my marriage. Last week at this time we had awesome sex. Talking really great sex with my wife. Now a week later she can't say I love you or even hug/kiss me. I am so lost as to why. The things she said in bed are not the things that disappear over a week. Like how I make her feel. how her body is all mine.. It's not something should drop off the earth.. 

BTW are you still in same bed?? My wife and I are.. It was one night last Friday she slept on couch. After that she has been in bed with me.


----------



## scarletblue

Well, I guess he only wants men that could be possibly interested in you to think that you are "together". Didn't you mention before that you felt like he thought of you as a posession?

I still think you are on a slippery slope by having sex with him. It just sets you up for more hurt and confusion. Proceed with caution.


Hang in there!


----------



## Corpuswife

Snix,

you are emotionally separated! I guess that is a way to describe it. I have been that way since Oct. but now physically separated.

Yep. I wanted the sex. Many times it felt like dead fish sex. It kept me connected to him, in some way. For him, I think he was resentful for the most part. 

I agree with scarletblue. The slippery slope by having sex with him and setting you up for more hurt. It feels good, but the next day it the same...nothing changes. I would really think of separate bedrooms. You initiate the idea.


----------



## snix11

We don't have room for separate bedrooms or I would. We are eight people in a three bedroom house as it is. 

It's like he's working hard at not caring. And he's getting good at it. 

Oh well. Might be time for the letter. I just don't know if I should send it or not.


----------



## Corpuswife

Give him the letter if it makes you feel better.

I am willing to bet that he will see it as just another thing to keep him there (emotionally/physically). He may not even acknowledge it. How will you feel if he is negative regarding the letter? 

The letter will not change anything in my opinion.

Separate bedrooms not an option: The couch or the floor.....


----------



## snix11

You are probably right. I just hoped it would move me past limbo.


----------



## Corpuswife

This is what I've discovered about LIMBO.

Unless they resolve the issues that are troubling, then it is hard for them to come back into the marriage (emotionally). 

This is why I am doing the Tough Love thing with my H. This separation gives him an opportunity to resolve whatever issues that he has (he may not even know them). If he does, then he may be more likely to come back into the marriage. If he doesn't, then I don't have to be tortured on a daily basis! However, whatever is going through his head...it give him a taste of the "grass is greener." We ALL know, unless there is abuse or multiple affairs....that the grass isn't greener.


----------



## snix11

Well, I know he will be happier without me. He has convinced himself I'm not 'the one' for him. He can't see thru the fog. I have seen that he will doggedly pursue to the ends of the universe anything he convinces himself he wants. At one time it was me. I didn't realize at the time I was just the next passing fancy. 

But this constant emotional and love black hole is tearing me down totally. I've really and truly tried, but I can't live happily with the total negation of his positive feelings for me.

re-writing the letter today.


----------



## Corpuswife

Snix,

how long have your known him? How long have you lived together? Has he been married or in a serious relationship before?


----------



## snix11

Found some really good quotes today: 

*
All I want is one good man to prove to me that they're not all the same

Nothing hurts more than realizing he meant everything to you, but you meant nothing to him.

I don’t miss him, I miss who I thought he wanted to be.

Moving on is simple, it’s what you leave behind that makes it so difficult.

The pain of having a broken heart is not so much as to kill you, yet not so little as to let you live.

remember this… the grass is not greener on the other side.. its greener where u water it.
*


----------



## snix11

Corpus - we met in jan 2006. dated until he moved in (his idea) in Oct 2006. 

He now says that he knew a month after he moved in that it was a mistake and I wasn't the 'one' but he stayed because he wanted to make it work. I never knew any of this - other than he started to change when he moved in but would tell me all the time I was "stupid and crazy" for thinking there was something wrong that he wasn't telling me. "stop worrying, I love you. Everything is fine!" etc. He didn't tell me the truth of it until last year. 

He was married before, 17 years. He broke up with her over her drinking and cheating. As far as I know, she was his only other serious relationship.


----------



## MsStacy

So you have been trying to fix this relationship for a longer period of time than the good/happy times lasted......?


----------



## Loving Husband

Yeah if your working harder then its been good it might be a battle not worth fighting. You guys might really need to be seperate. Living together the way it is now won't help anything. You both need space to think. Especially him. He needs to see life without you and think about all the problems without the distractions of your current life.


----------



## snix11

Well the time lines are a little skewed. I THOUGHT we were doing well until last year, when he lowered the 'i don't love you any more boom' 

After he decided things weren't working (three years ago) he asked me to marry him and we got pregnant and had a baby. I didn't know he was 'done' at that time and had decided we were not going to work out. Why ask me to marry him and have a baby if he felt that? He doesn't know. He says yes it was a bad thing for him to do. GRRRRRRR. 

So yeah... i guess i have been working on it longer than we were good. I haven't sent the dear John letter yet, I keep re-doing it over and over. Then of course he comes home and is all perky and sweet and I feel like a heel. But then again... arghhhh.

Left without saying goodbye this morning. (but i think he thought I was asleep) Came home and gave me a look away hug. (but might have been tired hot and distracted) But then poked me playfully on the stairs and said thank you when i ran interference for him with the kids. Tonight's movie (he's a movie every night kind of guy) was deliverance. I hadn't ever seen it. Interesting movie. 

Heck I don't know. I feel like i'm losing touch with what 'should' be a real and good relationship - words and gestures of commitment, love and romance - and starting to "Stockholm syndrome" this weird 'oh we are just friends and separated' thing as real and 'right'. 

Geez I love him and I hate him and I want him to stay and I want to move on with my life and have him leave and I want to try and I want to quit. LOL.. i'm a mess 

I guess it is just that the good times were so

amazing
magical
wonderful
time stretchingly loving
soul mate
life mate
worlds without end amen

That they still outweigh the bad times. 

And it's so hard for me to give up when the reasons I get don't make any sense.


----------



## scarletblue

So, is it like when he occasionally treats you like he should be treating you, it's like something really special? I mean, he smiles at you, thanks you for something, or hugs you....and you feel like he just did the sweetest most special thing in the world?


----------



## snix11

Yeah kinda like that. Then later I think.. HOLD IT... why is this suddenly so damn special? Why am I on tenterhooks? Why am I carrying a torch for a man who doesn't want me? STUPID. So I get myself all worked up to either deal with his coldness or kick him out, and he comes and does something nice and I'm all gushy again. I need some time to build up a wall against him, to get over him etc. But I don't think I can do it while he's still here being nice or living here.

Nicest thing in bed last night? No talking, no snuggling, no touching no hugs. Certainly no sex, kissing or tenderness. This morning he pushed on my leg playfully with his foot for a second before he got out of bed. Seriously. It's gotten to the point where I even notice THAT. 

But he was very pleasant and cheerful, making a joke and such in the shower when I came into the bathroom for a second. Then he said 'have a nice day' before he left on his way out the door. 

And somehow I'm thinking this is 'normal' and 'right' 

This is ridiculous.

He's been off his anti-depressants for three days now - not depressed, but he's had a major temper problem last night. Yelling at the kids over stuff they do all the time. Not like him. He says he can't afford them right now and I suggested he tell the doc to change em to the 4.00 wall mart stuff i'm on. 

I wonder if it's my anti-depressants making me thing 'oh this is cool and ok' ??


----------



## Loving Husband

My wife came off of them and look at me now. I am not sure if she was slowly not taking them before last Friday or not or if that time of the month made it worse but its a nasty drug to come off of.


----------



## snix11

That's what I hear. well i hope he's ok. I offered to sell some of my stuff to help him pay for his meds, but he didn't want to.


----------



## Rhea

*I guess it is just that the good times were so

amazing
magical
wonderful
time stretchingly loving
soul mate
life mate
worlds without end amen

That they still outweigh the bad times. *

How can the good out weigh the bad when the relationship has been in fix stage for 80% of it's life span? :scratchhead:


----------



## Corpuswife

Snix,

Is there something that you don't like about your guy? 

I ask this, because when we are on the receiving end of rejection we tend to romanticize (sp?) our spouse. In fact, there was plenty of annoying things and qualities that my H has.. but in the past 9 months I was only thinking of the positive.

Now that he is gone...I am remembering slowly that he wasn't perfect?

Tell about his qualities that you dislike?


----------



## snix11

Oh I'm aware of his faults - I looked at them (and my own) quite carefully over this last few years. 

He can be lazy, doesn't follow thru, procrastinates, is inconsistent and dissembles. I can be controlling, demanding, critical and emotionally needy. We both have a tendency to heap guilt upon ourselves and take too much blame. We both will tell a half truth or lie by ommission rather than face an unpleasant conversation. We both want more than anything else to please someone and have them pleased with us. Physically we can all find faults with each other.

I'm either his goddess with the long hair and beautiful blue eyes, or I'm a fat old ugly cow. He is either my sexy knight in shining armor with the bedroom eyes and cute butt, or a short balding man with bad teeth, bad skin and a worse attitude. 

I fully understand that how we see each other matters to whether we love them or not. I don't think he truely gets that it's his attitude that sees me as unworthy of his love and not anything that really changed in me. 

Where I was strong, i'm now controlling
where I was driven, i'm now demanding
where I was beautiful, i'm now ugly

It's all in how you chose to see things. 

I had this awful dream about him last night. A dream of betrayal of the worst kind, and I don't mean with another woman. Honestly that wouldn't bother me too much. The worst part is, after looking at it logically, he could very well be doing that betrayal. All the pieces fit and make sense


----------



## Corpuswife

Love is a choice! YOu are right...it's how we chose to see things.

The dream you mention, seems to difficult to discuss here?


----------



## snix11

Yep. He chooses to love the kids. He chooses not to love me. 

Kinda a slap in the face.


----------



## snix11

I'm so ready to move past all this. but i have so much problem doing it with him here acting like everything is hunky dory we be just good friends ain't life special? 

BLECH

I do want to stay friends with him. But i can't pretend there was never anything more. And I'm sick of playing his game of 'we' don't want or need to be loving or personal with anyone but the kids. 

Who's this WE Mr. closed off heart? Speak for yourself. I want to give and receive love. And if he doesn't want me (obviously) I'll find someone who does


----------



## snix11

kids all ready to start school tomorrow. got all the supplies and books and such. Just wish I could crawl under a rock and hide till I can come out without the reminder of my failure.

sigh


----------



## Corpuswife

Thats a relief to have them all set. Maybe you'll have some "thinking" time to sort things out on what your next move should be.

Obviously things haven't changed. Failure. I hate that word. It's so hard and mean-spirited. I know you feel that way. Look at yourself. You have done everything that you could think of to save your relationship. You have done the work. You just can't do it alone. Pat yourself on the back and know that you were the one that never gave up. He did. It's not your fault. You aren't the failure.

I felt like a throwaway. I sometimes still do. In my heart and head I know I am a good person, intelligent, and attractive. Certainly, someone will want me later if things don't work out???? It's our situations that make us so uncertain regarding our lives. We are trying to overanalyze, mind read, repair, and nuture a dead relationship? Or...is it dead? There I go again...


----------



## Rhea

snix11 said:


> wanting to spend a nice evening making some man happy...


At the risk of busting open a huge can of worms....I have a question...and I tread lightly while asking...

It seems to me that you are equating your happiness to having a man around... Do you think that you must have a man at all times to be considered successful? Not a failure? To be happy? To feel content? Snix you'll never be happy with someone else until you can be happy by yourself...having a spouse/mate/boyfriend, someone to walk through life w/you is a privilege not a _*NECESSITY*_ you will be ok until you meet someone else whom treats you as you treat them, whom loves you as you love them, is faithful, attentive, sexual, friendly, and trusting to you as you are to them...

Although I and many others here can relate to your pain, feelings of betrayal, and lonliness there comes a point where you have to quit blaming yourself, quit wallowing in your self pity, and quit looking to finding another man to replace Mr. Zombie in order to find hapiness, content and success (as opposed to the failure you constantly place upon yourself and yourself only) in your life...

Just as it takes two to make a marriage/relationship work, on the opposite side of that it only takes one to "let" it fail. You as well as everyone else here knows it wasn't you that "let" it fail. 

Many a folk here have told you that its not _*YOU*_, as a matter of fact Snix _*you*_ _*know*_ it's _*not you*_ as well. You know you've busted your a$$ hardcore for this man, you know you've done everything in your power and have been one helluva person and put up w/a lot more than most would. 

Now get up off your a$$ and show him that life will go on without him, and that although you may want him you sure as hell don't _*NEED*_ him to function. I say this Snix not to attack you. I say this because I too had/have too. I'm a little further along in the healing process than you are but I'm not all the way through it. 

The pain and hurt will take time to heal we all know that.

Take the energy from that pain and focus on the future and what you're going to do now, you've known for a while now that this was coming to an end...now that it's run it's course and you say YOU have made the decision that its over as well. Let yourself start back in on being you, functioning as you, making you happy. 

You can have all of those things by yourself...and once you find them you'll be in a helluva lot better position to let someone back into your life as opposed to wallowing in your misery until some other man comes along to wallow in it with you...misery loves company...if you're miserable when you find someone else chances are the next relationship will be miserable as well. 

So build a healthier more self confident you and you're more apt to find a healthier more self confident man the next time around.

Again...I speak from self experience, I too am getting back to me. I was fully comfortable being single prior to being married. I'm a pretty independent woman, but I'm working on the heart break and the do it yourself part as opposed to the doing it with a partner as a team thing, sucks. BUT must be done. 

I do not come with slam Snix motives...I offer this up to help you as you seem stuck in a rut...time to move on...you're a smart, funny lady, get back to that


----------



## snix11

Yes Rhea I hear you. I was betrayed. By him. yet again. 

I'll answer you in a bit, i'm still in shock.


----------



## snix11

I asked paul to leave last night. 
I said I apprecaited him staying and helping me out financially but his goal to stay till i was financially on my feet probably wasn't going to happen.
he said no
he said he didn't have enough money, and isn't saving any
and that he was morally opposed to leaving me high and dry
i said that was ok, he could go ahead and leave

that's when he told me he lied to me a month ago
and now wants custody of our son
he claims it would be for my benefit
and easier on the child
I said I don't give up my children when things get hard

i'm in shock. 
I might have expected some things
but not betrayal
not this


----------



## snix11

Rhea, as to your other longer flaming post - 

I have been a single mom for 17 of my 22 years as a mother. Living alone doesn't scare me, bother me or worry me. 

I do think that woman and man are meant to be together. But it's more of a spiritual thing with me, not a 'gee i'm nobody without a man' I know it sounds like that. 

But i LIKE living with a man. 
I LIKE being in love
I LIKE the idea of having someone to grow old with
have and to hold
love and cherish
in sickness and in health
richer or poorer

Someone to make happy that wants to work at making me happy too! A good model for our children. I have a plaque on my wall -

The BEST gift you can give your children is the model of a committed romantic marriage. 

I really believe that. 

No, I don't need just any old man
or any old relationship

I know I don't NEED it

but i sure like it...

and the regular sex ain't bad either


----------



## recent_cloud

snix11 said:


> I asked paul to leave last night.
> I said I apprecaited him staying and helping me out financially but his goal to stay till i was financially on my feet probably wasn't going to happen.



as you've said people and i'm sure you'd agree events as well can be seen at least two different ways.

and string theory throws out an infinite number of ways to interpret an event.

if what you posted is indeed what you said then you have tilted the fulcrum of draconian editing and eloquent simplicity the right way.

and now it's time to move along move along...


----------



## snix11

Recent... once more, in english please?


----------



## recent_cloud

snix11 said:


> Recent... once more, in english please?


much to my surprise you simplified your message as i would have but was concerned you might find draconian.

but you didn't

and that's good.

you spoke with eloquent simplicity from the heart

and you'll not convince me you didn't understand my original post

you just like the way i lay it all out for you


----------



## Rhea

Hmm well I contimplated pointing out all the things that I said where I WAS NOT flaming you...however I'm almost positive that you like to wallow in your own misery so I'm content to leave you there...

We all like the things you listed up there. However life has to go on without them once they disappear until they reappear again one day if we are so lucky. 

Best of Luck.
Rhea


----------



## scarletblue

I'm sorry to hear about his newest betrayal. Maybe this is an eye-opener for you. He may have been a wonderful man once, but not since I've been to this forum.

I know you love the man he was, but do you love the man he now is?

Judges generally don't like to separate siblings unless there is some serious reason to, so take some deep breaths and hang in there.


----------



## snix11

Rhea, I knew you weren't really flaming me silly.. i was kidding. goofy  Sometimes my sense of humor isn't understood by all and sundry. Sorry about that. I'll try to keep it to myself. 

Scarlett - Yes, I understand he is NOT a wonderful man now. He shows me, almost daily, that he is outwardly nice, but has so many nasty things going on behind my back. Talk about two faced. 

He claims of course he "has" to be. Right. 

This morning as he left he came over to the bed and gave me a hug. WTF? It just made me angry. But of course I didn't show it. We only show each other the 'polite' face these days, nothing real.


----------



## Rhea

snix11 said:


> Rhea, I knew you weren't really flaming me silly.. i was kidding. goofy  Sometimes my sense of humor isn't understood by all and sundry. Sorry about that. I'll try to keep it to myself.
> 
> Scarlett - Yes, I understand he is NOT a wonderful man now. He shows me, almost daily, that he is outwardly nice, but has so many nasty things going on behind my back. Talk about two faced.
> 
> He claims of course he "has" to be. Right.
> 
> This morning as he left he came over to the bed and gave me a hug. WTF? It just made me angry. But of course I didn't show it. We only show each other the 'polite' face these days, nothing real.


Okie dokey...that's odd that flew by me cause my sense of humor is rather "off" myself. 

But phew! I was like um...d*mn did she really think I was flaming her? WOWIE...


----------



## peanut

Well, it is hard to keep the romance in a marriage when kids are in the picture too. Husbands feel they should be first in the relationship and children, animals, work, etc should come 2nd. 
It is hard to be romantic when the kids are tugging on one arm and the hubby wants attention on the other. It is hard to go from "mommy mode" to "lover" mode.
Maybe, even though HE is the one initiating this situation, take some time out and go on a date. Have a babysitter come or family member watch the kids. Even if finances are slim, you can always go for a walk or just spend time together outside of the house.
With the economy the way it is, maybe he associates you with the bills, the kids, etc...
I am not sure if this is the scenario in your house or not.
I just know when your husband is happy...everyone is happy -lol.
I have been married for 22 years, and marriage is VERY hard work and definately not one sided.
Let me know what happens.


----------



## snix11

wow, peanut. thanks for the insight 

I never knew my husband might be looking for romance in our marriage! :rofl:

That must be it! I'm too much a mommy and not enough 'lover' mode!

Husbands feel that should be first in a relationship! 

Take the time to go on a date :banghead:

Peanut, gallery darling, have you READ this post? or enough of it to know what's going on? 

If i had any CLUE
any INKLING of what what help
I've tried it
I changed for him - he said it was too late
I did what he asked - he said it didn't make a difference
I changed myself to what he said he wanted - he said it didn't make a difference
I spent a year doing everything I can to make myself more appealing to him, physically, mentally, sexually - nothing helped

six months of marriage counseling which seemed to be going great except he kept 'forgetting' to do the homework. I found out after all this that he didn't like the counselor and had no intention of making the changes he suggested. 

I tried meeting his emotional needs (he says he has none)
I tried love languages (he hides what he really feels so it's impossible)
I tried talking to him (he answers in lies or monosyllables)
I tried writing letters (he doesn't respond or talk to me about them)
I tried getting him to talk to me (he answers in lies or monosyllables)
I tried compromising and being only roommates for a while (he seemed to like it, but we got no closer)
I tried backing off totally to give him space (he seemed happy to not be close)
I tried living my own life and ignoring him (he was happy for me)
I tried just being sweet and loving (he was uncomfortable with it)
I tried being sexy and beautiful (he claimed i was just trying to manipulate him into loving me)
I lost weight, changed my hair and got new sexy clothes (he said it looked nice and went back to watching the TV)

I'm still not good enough. 

I have TRIED. I am willing to do anything he asks, try anything. 

He doesn't WANT me, he's QUIT the relationship, he doesn't WANT romance, love etc. He has told me, over and over I'm not GOOD enough to love. I have done EVERYTHING i can - even spending an ENTIRE month being over the top romantic, love notes, presents, christmas tree lit romantic picnics in a treehouse you name it. 

He doesn't CARE. 

I just wish I didn't too. Now he acts like everything is so FINE and gives me this hug that means NOTHING in the morning. He's not trying to initiate a DAMN thing, he's just ... heck i don't know WTF he was doing and I no longer GAF 

I finally asked him to leave and he says NO. 
He won't go to counseling
He won't try
He won't have sex
He won't be romantic or affectionate
He won't be committed
and now he's trying to blackmail me. 
He is looking for other women
He told me he is leaving me and moving out
and he now says he lied and wants custody of our 1 yr old son when he does it. 

Yes, a date! gosh, why didn't I think of that.. just go on a nice romantic walk. :smthumbup:

:banghead::smthumbup::banghead::banghead: :banghead::smthumbup::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead:
:banghead::smthumbup::banghead::banghead: :banghead::smthumbup::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead:
:banghead::smthumbup::banghead::banghead: :banghead::smthumbup::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead:


----------



## Loving Husband

I feel for you.. I have to beg from my wife to have sex... Now we nothing... If I saw my wife try a 1/4 of what you did I would be in my glory..


----------



## snix11

Peanut, hubby doesn't WANT my attention. That's the problem. 

He only loves the kids


----------



## Loving Husband

I will tell you this.. My wife has aged bad. She smokes/drinks/Anxiety/Weight gain. Yet through all that I still want her. 

I tried to show her one night by grabbing her leg and shaking it and telling her I love her no matter what she looks like. I love the inside of her. She took that I was calling her fat. Then held onto it. Now throws it back at me every chance she can and says I was mean to her.. I am stumped.


----------



## snix11

Ok,when i try to talk to him about anything real - this is what happens

he starts saying things like "you are just playing games, you don't mean anything, you always manipulate me"

I'll say something like "whoa - hold on, I understand you feel these things but can you please not say them as if they are absolutes? Honey I love you but it really hurts me when you think so poorly of me. I can appreciate that you may be misunderstanding what i'm doing, but i NEVER mean to play games, I do mean what I say and I don't want to manipulate you or make you angry or frustrated. Can we please talk about this without attacking each other? I really feel attacked when you do that"

He will answer with "FU*K IT! If you aren't going to let me express myself why should I talk to you?!" Then he looks off into the distance, angrilly flicking his ciggerette, his jaw muscles jumping in anger and wont talk. and won't talk. and won't talk. 10 minutes can go by with him doing this. me not daring to move. 

If I say, "I'm sorry I made you frustrated, I guess we should pick this up later?" 

He will answer with "Did I SAY I was Fu*king FRUSTRATED? Did I say that? HUH?" ( no you didn't, but you are acting really angry honey) DON'T TELL ME HOW I"M ACTING!! THIS IS WHY I HAVE TO LIE TO YOU. THIS IS WHY I NEVER TALK TO YOU. LOOK WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!

and then things go nowhere. help!

If I let him finish by being quiet then try to say something like "ok, i hear you think I'm manipulating you. I don't understand that, can you explain it please"

He will say "FU*K IT. You KNOW what you are doing, I TOLD you what you were doing, why should I have to explain it? My answers are never good enough for you, are they? You always want more. You just want to pick everything apart. You are just playing GAMES with me asking me to explain what you know full well" 

I have NO idea what he's talking about. How on earth can we get to a real and decent conversation when he's like this? 

I don't know what to do


----------



## scarletblue

How can you get to a real and decent conversation when he's like this? You can't.

You've opened your heart and layed yourself bare and vulnerable for this man, and what does he do? He throws it back in your face and tells you that you're trying to manipulate him.

It is now your turn to decide what YOU want and what YOU will put up with.

Find out what your rights are and prepare yourself for what you may need to do. If nothing else, you won't be blind sided again by him.

I just googled common law marriage in Texas and found a ton of stuff.


Q: What makes a common law marriage? 
◦A: Three elements must be present to form a common law marriage in Texas. 
First, you must have "agreed to be married."
Second, you must have "held yourselves out" as husband and wife. You must have represented to others that you were married to each other. As an example of this, you may have introduced you partner socially as "my husband," or you may have filed a joint income tax return.
Third, you must have lived together in this state as husband and wife.

Q: How can I get out of a common law marriage?
◦A: Common law marriage may end in two ways. If there have been children or if property and debts remain undivided, you will want to seek a formal divorce. In a divorce, paternity, custody, support, and visitation can be determined, and debts and community property can be divided. 

Under a new provision of the Family Code, either partner in a common law marriage has two years after you split up to file an action to prove that the marriage did exist. In order to fit into this provision, you must have separated after September 1, 1989.

Both partners in a common law marriage are responsible for debts and for care and support of children of the marriage. It is therefore urgent that you discuss the ending of this marriage with an attorney. You have a choice of methods, but they all require you to act within a certain length of time. However, even if the time has expired for you to obtain a divorce, other steps can be taken to get orders for payment of child support and visitation for children of the marriage.


----------



## lastinline

I really feel for you. It is sad, but a common theme across most of the threads I have seen is that there is only one partner who is actually working on the relationship. In your case, it is you. I have read your post, and your ability to endure is comendable. I only wish I had something more constructive to tell you, but from what I have read you have already covered the gambit. "A mine can be only safely dug so deep, and if after all that effort is through and nothing of value has been found, it is not wrong by any means, to fill that shaft in and try again somewhere else."


----------



## snix11

If only. I did ask him to leave, he said no. 

sigh


----------



## QuitaBee

Loving Husband said:


> I will tell you this.. My wife has aged bad. She smokes/drinks/Anxiety/Weight gain. Yet through all that I still want her.
> 
> I tried to show her one night by grabbing her leg and shaking it and telling her I love her no matter what she looks like. I love the inside of her. She took that I was calling her fat. Then held onto it. Now throws it back at me every chance she can and says I was mean to her.. I am stumped.



Even though you meant well...I would have taken that as an insult as well...everytime she tries to throw that back in her face simply tell her "Your the beautiful woman I married __years ago"...or "I love you more and more each day, dont ever wonder about that"


----------



## QuitaBee

snix11 said:


> If only. I did ask him to leave, he said no.
> 
> sigh


If he wont move....you can!! Sometimes love is NOT enough! You could spend a lifetime telling someone how you want to be loved but if they don't care...they donb't care and they probably never will, cant miss a good thing till its gone...its a COMPLETE waste of time!!


----------



## Loving Husband

I agree... Everybody has a choice.. Moving out might be the best. Doesn't mean your giving up just changing it currently. You can always come back if the situation improves..


----------



## snix11

How Can I move out if the mortgage is in my name only? I can't afford the bills here, how am I supposed to afford them and another place? that doesn't make sense.


----------



## DownButNotOut

in your name? Go nuclear. Don't ask him to leave, tell him. Change the locks. Evict him.

Yeah, I'm feeling kinda harsh today.


----------



## snix11

Down, I promised I wouldn't kick him out.


----------



## DownButNotOut

I know you did snix. 

And he promised to make a real effort to work on your relationship. He promised not to try a custody fight for your child. He promised a lot of things.

I'd say all bets are now off.

Breach of contract. Give him warning, give him a date, and then give him a boot in the backside out the door.

Like I said though...I'm in kinda a bad mood today.


----------



## snix11

Well how can I expect him to keep his promises if I don't keep mine? 

All I can do is be true and hope he does too.


----------



## MsStacy

snix11 said:


> Down, I promised I wouldn't kick him out.
> 
> Well how can I expect him to keep his promises if I don't keep mine?
> 
> All I can do is be true and hope he does too.




IT'S OVER!!!!!!!

You tried. You gave it everything you could, and more. You did more than any other person would. 

Now you're just making excuses and playing the victim.


----------



## snix11

When do promises between two parents become 'over' 

Like it or not, we are going to be involved in each other's lives for another 18 years. We have a son and I think that promises between parents, whether or not they live together is important. 

It's a sad state of affairs when personal integrity is seen as 'playing the victim'


----------



## nightshade

I agree that you need to get him out. Your promises are void with a person who puts no value in his. 

Really, I don't see why he is worth all this trouble. You can continue how it's been, which doesn't seem very happy to me, or you can say bye-bye and start living a life with more potential for happiness. 

And yep, you'll be in each others lives as parents, and that's fine. But he's in your life now as just this title-less entity that brings you unhappiness and self doubt. He can go be that somewhere else and still be a co-parent.


----------



## snix11

nightshade. I'm hoping he will. and soon.


----------



## snix11

Just an update.. Yes, I can be STUPID!!! :banghead:

Now before ya'll go flaming me, let me make some things clear. No I don't think it means anything. No I don't think he's changed his mind or will. No I don't have any 'hope' or anything stupid like that. But it was interesting that he was so nice. 

So I have my speech and ring all ready to go - 

Last night he drags in after 730, completely beat from work. He looked like a puppy somebody had left out in the rain. So, instead of the I'm leaving you a$$hole speech, I get into rescuing mode. 

And he starts out by giving me not one but two hugs. Something he hasn't done in a while. He hasn't been affectionate at all in days. 

I got him into a hot shower, got him a clean towel, made him dinner, washed his uniform clothes etc. Put the kids to bed early, put him to bed and rubbed his back till he fell asleep. So much for Mrs. Mean. sigh. 

But in the middle of the night, he moves up against me and kinda cuddles me (he was facing away from me, but kind of did it with his legs) this morning he wiggled against me companionably as he woke up. It was nice, not personal per se, but companionable. Nicer than he's been to me in a while certainly. 

But - He seemed dissapointed in something - I'm not sure what. He finally got up, and went to work early - I'm not sure how early but when I woke up at 6am he was already gone. shrug.


----------



## Justawife

you mean bewitched...


----------



## Corpuswife

I know that you say, at the beginning of your post, that you don't have "hope." I call that B.S.

I know how it is...reading every move and interpreting it as a positive/negative. That is exactly what you are doing. You can't help but have hope. You love the guy and want it to work. If he is snuggling, hugging, or threatening custody of your child.....you reading/intepreting it all! Every hug is hope. Every theat is despair.

It sucks. He has the power and control. You said you won't give up. You won't set boundaries. What will you do?


----------



## deejay

He checked out ! or is about to ? act soon.


----------



## snix11

Deejay.. what??


----------



## deejay

snix11 said:


> Deejay.. what??


 checked out is a term used just before going numb,I been through it and now facing separation.Dig deep and get inide his head, you'll find it. If it was depression he would be a ''zombie'' with everybody not just you.Some men do act that way to give hints to the wife that they are not happy because they are bad communicaters,again like I did.She never got the hint till It was too late, I finally told her what the problems are which was a sigh of relief. Another possibility is he may think or found something on you ? which can be eating at him. good luck!


----------



## snix11

Deejay - It may well be as you say

I am an open book to him. I love him and have nothing to hide.

but i have asked and asked and asked and asked

and dug and dug and dug and dug

he swears there is nothing he is angry about

or nothing he will tell me

whatever i did, i pissed him off enough he has no intention of telling me.


----------



## valium

Hi Snix

I feel it has been going on since May this year and if you are not getting through to him is it time to give up?


----------



## snix11

Sure Ok. Give up. 

Give up feeling? Give up thinking? Give up what?

And how?


----------



## snix11

He's a good guy, a decent roommate, a pretty good father. He's attractive, doesn't kick or snore and has similar vices and good habits as mine. He's polite and pleasant, we have the same quirky sense of humor. I think he's cute even if he doesn't. 

Heck, he'd make a decent boyfriend. 

ah yes, been there. done that. he don't want me any more. 

Why don't I even deserve to know WHY???

God I wish he would just LEAVE. This is killing me, him being here all the time. Why on earth does he think that anything that could happen to me financially would be worse than him breaking my heart every single day?


----------



## Sandy55

It is what is going to happen to HIM financially that is holding him with you, not what is going to happen to YOU.


----------



## Rhea

:iagree:


Sandy55 said:


> It is what is going to happen to HIM financially that is holding him with you, not what is going to happen to YOU.


:iagree:


----------



## valium

Sorry Snix, what I meant was is it not time to think about yourself again and get on with your life without him. I understand any decision like that s very very hard when one partner is willing and the other is not.

My H only came to see things as they actually were the other weekend after me saying that I needed my space to see if our marriage was worth saving. He used to ignore me, shout at me in front of the kids, my daughter does not like him but still speaks to him because he is her dad, my son had become withdrawn. I told him that me and the kids needed our own space as he could not see the damage he was doing to them. 

Since we have had the final discussions I listened to him, he listened to me and we have trying one last time. He is being very attentive now in all ways and generally being nicer, both to me and the kids. Bearing in mind this is only the 2nd week so it could still go wrong but as soon as it does me and the kids are out of there as I am no longer tolerating his behaviour. 

Anyway i hope it works out for you. Thinking of you.


----------



## snix11

Good luck vallium!! HUGS!!

If he would actually talk to me so we could work out the things he is having problems with, i'm sure we would be fine. 

But I'm not being a Bi*ch and giving him no real push to be real with me, so he isn't. 

His loss. Every day i'm more and more gone.


----------



## scarletblue

I understand wanting to know why. But, sometimes you never get to know. It sucks, but you really have no choice but to accept that.

It looks to me like it's to the point that....he gives you nothing so much of the time, that when he occasionally acts like a decent person, or gives you a tiny scrap of attention....or just treats you like he should be all the time....that it's so rare that you see it as some great treat.

Come on, you're a great woman, give yourself some credit! The fact that someone smiled at you, or hugged you, or just plain didn't ignore you, shouldn't make your day. You deserve that all the time, not just as an occasional treat.

Forget wondering why he's the way his. Figure out why you're settling for that.


----------



## valium

Scarletblue you are so right. 

I got to the stage where I wanted more than just waiting for a few scraps of kindness etc, I decided I was worth a lot more and wanted more. 

Snix you will get there to but it does take time. I has actually taken me 2 yrs since my h had an "emotional affair" with my best friend. This is how long I have put up with his mind games etc but no more.

Look after yourself and think every day you worth it.


----------



## snix11

Oh guys - I Do think i'm worth being nice to, being loved, being treated well. I'm sure we all do, whether or not we are being treated that way. 

Yes, sometimes i'm pleasantly surprised by his kindness and attention, but that doesn't mean i'm happy with scraps. 

I would much rather he scream and me and throw things and tell me what he's angry about and be REAL than this fake kindness he is throwing about.

That's the hardest part vallium - I don't KNOW what the problem is. No affairs, EA or otherwise - no addictions, no drunks, no abuse. 

I don't know WHAT he's mad at me about.


----------



## Rhea

snix11 said:


> I don't know WHAT he's mad at me about.


And you probably never will, and that's part of letting go is accepting that you most likely won't ever know wtf really happened or why...

I must admit though it really is hard not knowing.


----------



## nightshade

Maybe these is no reason... or he doesn't know either. That doesn't help make it manageable at all, but there aren't always clear cut reasons for everything.


----------



## snix11

No reason my LEFT FOOT. 

Maybe there is no clear reason why you chose chinese over seafood. 

Maybe there is no absolute clarity as to why you wanted to major in Accounting at first. 

But If i'm breaking up with my spouse, leaving my wife, cutting off all affection, sex, love and commitment and continuing to live there, I think i'd have a REASON. 

I just don't see anyone waking up in the morning and saying... gee whiz, i think i'll get a divorce today.


----------



## snix11

In other news - i've been asking him about his mom's memorial service for months. I supported him when the rest of his family didn't in all of this. He wanted one on her birthday this Saturday. I offered to help him plan it etc. Then he never did anything and finally said he didn't think he would have one. 

He tells me even last night he doesn't know if he is going to do anything (this weekend) and said only him and his aunt would be going to spread her ashes at the gravesite. 

Then today he calls up the wife of a friend and invites HER to a memorial service Saturday morning and afternoon. And oh by the way, it will be at my house and I have to hear from this from HER. What to bring? gosh.. i wouldn't KNOW. Grrrrrrrrrr. 

So of course I had to act like I knew all about it, chatted etc. I covered for his butt AGAIN. 

I'm the one that got him talking to his mother after years of them not talking. I am the one that slept on the tile floor of her apartment to do hospice work when i was just out the hospital with 67 stitches in my belly. Not one of his family, not even he would take care of either of us. I took care of her for almost two months by myself, in and out of the hospital myself with stroke high blood pressure and a baby in ICU. 

I talked her into telling him about his father - his real one and dealing with that before she died. She told me things in confidence she has never told anyone. 

I helped him thru the week of her death and cremation. 

And now he both leaves me out and decides to hold it at my house? 

Of all the horrid things he's done to me, this one takes the cake. I'm so very angry.


----------



## Rhea

and yet another checkmark on the why Mr. Z's an a$$hole list.


----------



## snix11

LOL Rhea... 

I brought it up tonight. Apparently he thinks i'm nuts. He swears he told me about all this a few days ago (nope, when I have to get the house ready for a party i need about five days to plan)

"Gosh, don't you remember honey?" with that smarmy golly gee your mind is going isn't it dear? kind of syrup. Grf. No point in arguing with him, he'll just get worse. Grit your teeth and 'yes dear' him. Grrrrrrr.

Then he goes on about how he should just call the whole thing off if im going to be upset about him having it at the house. How he never should have brought it up etc. 

(It was my idea in the first place, moron. Grrrrr.)

It amounted to him guilting me into letting him have it here, and insisting the kids come and telling me about the guest list. But not once did he express that he would like me there, just that all the kids, including mine should be because they called her grandma. 

So either way, I lose. Well played mr z. Yet again. 

If i show up, he can politely tell me this is for family only
if i don't, i can be chastised for not being there for him

No matter what I do, I lose. sigh.

Then there is Sunday. I was planning on a nice family trip up to Lukenbach to see the world record broken and be part of it. Fun for the whole family and a good cause to boot. I told mr Z about it tonight, he said "you should go" 

hmm ok. "I was planning on taking the kids and everybody"
"I'd go but i promised someone I would help them move"
"ok"
Later I offered to help him and his friend move - I'm an excellent and fast packer, have a pickup truck and I'm pretty strong and can lift heavy things (ugh) and ... 

he turns me down! first time he's ever done that 
"no. that's ok. i got it"
"you sure? I don't mind and I'd like to help X." (I know the gut that's moving)
"nope. i got it"

well damn. Now I'm not even worth being a box mover? Hrumph. 
or he just doesn't want me around
or he's not actually going to be moving
or he wanted to do/say something not around me

have i exhausted all the possibilities here for not wanting another pair of competent helping hands?


----------



## snix11

i don't know. maybe i should just learn to live on scraps. 

You know, that whole go green simplify your life thing.


----------



## scarletblue

First of all, of course he wants you there for the service. Who else will play hostess/waitress/servant? Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't want to look like a jerk by not having you there. 

He's going to manipulate you and use you because you always let him. He knows that. Even if it's subconcious on his part now.

Who wakes up in the morning and decides they want a divorce? Answer......me. Actually, I was sitting on the couch one night at about 9:00 and I realized it. It was like a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. No one thing caused it. Nothing I could put my finger on exactly. It was everything. All the years of what I'd been through with him....realizing that this was going to be how the rest of my life with him was going to be. He would tell his friends what a great wife I was, while he continued to do drugs and cheat on me. I would work 2 jobs, and take care of the kids and house. I'd forgive him and take him back when I caught him cheating. Why? Because I'd put up with it. I let him take my value away from me. Actually, I probably just handed it over to him to try to be the good wife.

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread here. I just wanted you to know that some people do wake up one day and realize that they don't want what they wanted a year ago, two years ago, 10 years ago. I believe that it's no one's fault a lot of those times. My ex thinks I still never gave him a reason. I gave him plenty of reasons, he just didn't want to accept any of them.

Go have fun without him on Sunday.


----------



## Leahdorus

Or maybe, he changed his mind and he's just not that into you.

USATODAY.com - Excerpt from 'He's Just Not That Into You'


----------



## snix11

scarletblue said:


> realizing that this was going to be how the rest of my life with him was going to be. H
> he continued to do drugs and cheat on me.
> I would work 2 jobs, and take care of the kids and house.
> 
> My ex thinks I still never gave him a reason. I gave him plenty of reasons, he just didn't want to accept any of them.


*See? you DID have reasons. *

His are "too much water under the bridge" which makes no sense to me. 

I didn't cheat
I don't do drugs
I bring in more money than he does (over all, not this year)

He also swears he gave me lots of reason but when I ask him, or ask him to write them down he refuses telling me he already told me.


----------



## snix11

Leahdorus said:


> Or maybe, he changed his mind and he's just not that into you.
> 
> USATODAY.com - Excerpt from 'He's Just Not That Into You'


If he wasn't that into me, he shouldn't have FRACKING moved into my house, had a baby with me and THEN decided he wasn't into me.


----------



## Mommybean

Give up the ghost, Snix. Is this how your last relationship was also? Were you the one to hang on until the bitter end in that one also? It's great to want to honor your word, in saying you won't kick him out, etc...but you continue to hang on to the hope that he will want you again. He WON'T. From everything you have posted in this thread, he is DONE...and the reason he is NOT giving you a reason anymore is because he is simply THAT DONE. You can analyze every move he makes, looking for meaning where there is none, or you can get on with the rest of your life. Lots of spouses don't cheat, don't do drugs, and make a lot of money...and they STILL get left. You are looking for answers so that you can try to fix it and its just not going to happen. At this point, your behavior is almost masochistic in nature in regards to him. Sigh...I don't think i'm really saying anything here that has not been said before though.


----------



## snix11

I understand he may be done. If so, 

WHY IS HE STILL HERE? 
WHY DOES HE ASK ME TO GO PLACES WITH HIM?
WHY DOES HE SLEEP WITH ME? 
WHY DOES HE GIVE ME HUGS?

That just don't equal DONE in my book. 

*I understand done.* 
I've been done myself in relationships. What I did NOT do is stick around and act like the relationship never happened afterward. When I'm done, it's because something has pissed me off so bad, or gotten me to the despair level I want OUT. 

These days he pouts if I don't notice he's naked in bed. He sighs heavily when he goes to bed and I stay up. He asks me what's wrong, he wants me to talk to him. But if I tell him I'm depressed about us (the truth) he gets angry. He treats me like a spouse in public. He asks me out on friendly 'dates' on the weekends. He asks me to spend time with him in the evenings. He is sometimes affectionate and playful, poking me or swatting my ass on the way up the stairs. He occasionally gives me a compliment. He'll get me little presents from the store. He asks to share a coke or doesn't think twice about eating off my plate at a restaurant. After eight months, he doesn't have a new girl yet and doesn't appear to be seriously looking for one. After eight months he has saved up no money to leave and hasn't been looking for places to move to. 

It doesn't LOOK like done to me - except there is no kissing, no sex, no romance and no commitment. 

What's UP with that?

-----
As for your previous question, I was the one that broke it off before. I asked him to move his things out of my house (he had always maintained his own place) I knew why I wanted it done and over. I did not LINGER or stay with him after I told him it was over. 

He asked us to get counseling when we were separated. I agreed. 
But after three sessions when the counselor suggested I change the locks, remove him from the bank account and get rid of him (he was physically abusive) I did. And he was out. Didn't want to stay. Didn't want him to stay. Didn't want to be friends. I was done. And knew why and didn't mind telling him. 
-------

I don't feel like i'm the one 'staying' in this relationship. He said he was done. Ok. So why all the above nonsense? :scratchhead:

I've asked him to leave, told him he didn't have to stay on my account. He's still here. This story about him being morally opposed to leaving me financially high and dry sounds like horsepoo. How can someone be morally opposed to leaving someone impoverished but not care if they break your heart. If they know that their being here and being a zombie hurts you every single day? Give me a break.


----------



## preso

snix11 said:


> If he wasn't that into me, he shouldn't have FRACKING moved into my house, had a baby with me and THEN decided he wasn't into me.


Sometimes it goes like that.
It's sad, but a reality for some people.


----------



## Rhea

snix11 said:


> I understand he may be done. If so,
> 
> WHY IS HE STILL HERE? Because you exert no effort to MAKE him leave. Because you don't want him to go.
> 
> WHY DOES HE ASK ME TO GO PLACES WITH HIM?Because he knows you won't say no and he is one of those insecure people who feels like a loser in public if he's alone.
> 
> WHY DOES HE SLEEP WITH ME? BECAUSE YOU LET HIM!
> 
> WHY DOES HE GIVE ME HUGS? Because he knows that little piece of physicality will keep YOU hanging on, therefor more apt do as HE pleases because YOU think there's hope.
> 
> That just don't equal DONE in my book. BUT IT DOES IN HIS OR ELSE HE'D BE F*CKING YOU, KISSING YOU, AND ROMANCING YOUR ASS UP ONE SIDE AND DOWN THE OTHER...I'm just sayin...
> 
> *I understand done.* You understand when YOU are done, not when someone ELSE is...
> 
> 
> 
> I've been done myself in relationships. What I did NOT do is stick around and act like the relationship never happened afterward. When I'm done, it's because something has pissed me off so bad, or gotten me to the despair level I want OUT.
> 
> These days he pouts if I don't notice he's naked in bed. He wants you to notice so you can give it a shot and then he can turn you down once again IE: He wins again.
> 
> He sighs heavily when he goes to bed and I stay up.He wants you to follow him like a puppy as he's used to you doing.
> 
> He asks me what's wrong, he wants me to talk to him. But if I tell him I'm depressed about us (the truth) he gets angry.He asks out of common courtesy...he doesn't really want to hear or listen to what you have to say...
> 
> He treats me like a spouse in public.Of course, he only makes an ass out of himself at home.
> 
> He asks me out on friendly 'dates' on the weekends. He asks me to spend time with him in the evenings. He's bored.
> 
> He is sometimes affectionate and playful, poking me or swatting my ass on the way up the stairs. He occasionally gives me a compliment. He'll get me little presents from the store. He asks to share a coke or doesn't think twice about eating off my plate at a restaurant. Again because he knows you'll hang on these little actions and try to find something that means he is still "in" love with you from them, therefor keeping you attached so as he can continue to mind f*ck you hard core as he has been doing.
> 
> 
> After eight months, he doesn't have a new girl yet and doesn't appear to be seriously looking for one. Because he KNOWS that most won't put up w/the BS he gives as much and for as long as YOU have.
> 
> After eight months he has saved up no money to leave and hasn't been looking for places to move to. Because he KNOWS he DOESN'T HAVE to LEAVE!
> 
> It doesn't LOOK like done to me - except there is no kissing, no sex, no romance and no commitment. DONE!
> 
> What's UP with that? He's a nut job and gets off on mind f*cking you on a daily basis, gets his jollies from it and will continue to do so as long as you continue to let him.


----------



## Mommybean

:iagree:

He's only treating you the way you allow him to treat you. You come up with excuse after excuse as to why you two have to coexist. It's almost as if you like the abuse on some level. Someone on here said that apathy is the opposite of love. Sounds like that nails his behavior toward you in a nutshell Snix.


----------



## scarletblue

Oh, the heck with it.......If he's not going to leave, then since he's going to be there anyway....and he's not fufilling your needs....make him babysit while you go out and have a life.
If you're not at home, you will hardly even notice that he's ignoring you. lol


----------



## recent_cloud

thanks for advising me to not throw out my popcorn snix.

good call.

how'd you know.


----------



## snix11

I didn't want all that corn to go to waste


----------



## snix11

scarletblue said:


> Oh, the heck with it.......If he's not going to leave, then since he's going to be there anyway....and he's not fufilling your needs....make him babysit while you go out and have a life.
> If you're not at home, you will hardly even notice that he's ignoring you. lol


You know, I've been SERIOUSLY considering that. I'm trying to see where it will bite me and there is a way, but I'm not sure it's valid.


----------



## snix11

Rhea said:


> snix11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand he may be done. If so,
> 
> WHY IS HE STILL HERE? Because you exert no effort to MAKE him leave. True (and you know why) Because you don't want him to go. was true before, isn't now.
> 
> WHY DOES HE ASK ME TO GO PLACES WITH HIM?Because he knows you won't say no and he is one of those insecure people who feels like a loser in public if he's alone. Hmmm.. nope. He has plenty of people to go out with. and I don't see him as someone that is insecure in public. It's something else.
> 
> WHY DOES HE SLEEP WITH ME? BECAUSE YOU LET HIM!  But why would he WANT to? When I break up with a spouse, I don't want ANYTHING to do with them, much less sleep with their sorry ass.
> 
> WHY DOES HE GIVE ME HUGS? Because he knows that little piece of physicality will keep YOU hanging on, therefor more apt do as HE pleases because YOU think there's hope. Hope? Nah. just some strange behavior. I have asked him if he does this to keep me hanging on, he said he didn't.
> 
> That just don't equal DONE in my book. BUT IT DOES IN HIS OR ELSE HE'D BE F*CKING YOU, KISSING YOU, AND ROMANCING YOUR ASS UP ONE SIDE AND DOWN THE OTHER...I'm just sayin... I agree with you there.
> 
> *I understand done.* You understand when YOU are done, not when someone ELSE is... good point.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been done myself in relationships. What I did NOT do is stick around and act like the relationship never happened afterward. When I'm done, it's because something has pissed me off so bad, or gotten me to the despair level I want OUT.
> 
> These days he pouts if I don't notice he's naked in bed. He wants you to notice so you can give it a shot and then he can turn you down once again IE: He wins again. But WHY? what a stupid mean thing to do.
> 
> He sighs heavily when he goes to bed and I stay up.He wants you to follow him like a puppy as he's used to you doing. Probably so.
> 
> He asks me what's wrong, he wants me to talk to him. But if I tell him I'm depressed about us (the truth) he gets angry.He asks out of common courtesy...he doesn't really want to hear or listen to what you have to say... Probably so.
> 
> He treats me like a spouse in public.Of course, he only makes an ass out of himself at home. Hmm.. but i don't think that's the only reason.
> 
> He asks me out on friendly 'dates' on the weekends. He asks me to spend time with him in the evenings. He's bored. probably so.
> 
> He is sometimes affectionate and playful, poking me or swatting my ass on the way up the stairs. He occasionally gives me a compliment. He'll get me little presents from the store. He asks to share a coke or doesn't think twice about eating off my plate at a restaurant. Again because he knows you'll hang on these little actions and try to find something that means he is still "in" love with you from them, therefor keeping you attached so as he can continue to mind f*ck you hard core as he has been doing. I just have a VERY hard time accepting this is all done just to hurt me. If so, he must be VERY angry with me. but over what??
> 
> After eight months, he doesn't have a new girl yet and doesn't appear to be seriously looking for one. Because he KNOWS that most won't put up w/the BS he gives as much and for as long as YOU have. Oh but when he's newly in love, he's nothing short of incredible. He knows this.
> 
> After eight months he has saved up no money to leave and hasn't been looking for places to move to. Because he KNOWS he DOESN'T HAVE to LEAVE! Would YOU (or any of you) want to stay if you were him? Anybody?
> 
> It doesn't LOOK like done to me - except there is no kissing, no sex, no romance and no commitment. DONE! Right. He says that he loves me, but can't sustain the kind of love I need. Ie, romance, sex and commitment and kissing. So, if he can't be what i want, he had better break up with me. Does that make ANY sense to anyone?
> 
> What's UP with that? He's a nut job and gets off on mind f*cking you on a daily basis, gets his jollies from it and will continue to do so as long as you continue to let him.
> 
> 
> 
> You had a lot of good points in there, thanks
> 
> However, I just dont buy that he's 'getting off on mind f*cking me on a daily basis, or gets jollies from it.'
> 
> The ONLY reason I can think of someone would do that is if they were REALLY angry or just naturally an a$$hole, neither of which i think he is. And if he's that angry, what on earth could it be?
> 
> Bah.
Click to expand...


----------



## snix11

Mommybean said:


> Someone on here said that apathy is the opposite of love.


uh yeah, that would be me  

But he's acting companionable, not apathetic.


----------



## dcrim

ahh, Snix...you know where I stand! Girl, I sincerely wish you the best! But there are toxins in life and he is one of them! I wish I had a magic wand!!! I really do! 

(uh, I had to log in to post this! I HOPE YOU APPRECIATE IT!  )


----------



## Rhea

snix11 said:


> uh yeah, that would be me
> 
> But he's acting companionable, not apathetic.


Companionable my foot.

He's not angry you'd know it...

I'm not sure what he is...other than an a$$


----------



## Sandy55

snix11 said:


> If he wasn't that into me, he shouldn't have FRACKING moved into my house, had a baby with me and THEN decided he wasn't into me.


So who are you angry at? 

He could not have moved in *without your permission*, he could not have made a baby *without your consent *and partaking in the making.

You should learn from this experience. 

I am sorry you chose a bad man. We all have been there, now pull on your big girl panties and move on.

I pray that you will follow the bubbles to the surface of the dark waters you are drowning in.


----------



## dcrim

Sandy55 said:


> ... We all have been there, now pull on your big girl panties and move on.
> ...


Yeah! Get a nice pair of sexy thongs!


----------



## Rhea

dcrim said:


> Yeah! Get a nice pair of sexy thongs!


Oh GEEBUS! sigh.....


----------



## dcrim

Rhea! ROTFLOL! So, what's your problem here?!?


----------



## recent_cloud

dcrim said:


> Yeah! Get a nice pair of sexy thongs!


you twist an analogy about emotional growth into a salacious remark 

combined with what you said about your daughter

i'm not impressed.


----------



## scarletblue

Could it be that he's lazy, self-centered, and selfish?

Sure, in the beginning he was wonderful. The fun of persuing what you want and getting it. HE decided HE wanted something and went after it...YOU. Then he got you. No more fun in the chase game there.

Now he's moved in and got you....out comes the lazy part. It's easier to just stay there and let you take care of house and kids. It's a pain in the butt to have to do what it takes to move out, etc... Easier just to stay with you.

He still sleeps with you because the bed is comfortable. If he wants a little attention, he just has to rub his foot against your leg. If he doesn't want attention, he just pushes you away. No big deal to him.....HE'S NOT THINKING ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS...HE'S THINKING ABOUT HIS.

He doesn't hate you. He's not angry with you. You're a good woman. You're OK to hang around with sometimes....when HE feels like it.

LAZY: He's too lazy to leave you. He's too lazy to work on the relationship.

SELF-CENTERED:He's self-centered, not arrogant or conceded. He just sees how things affect him, not others. A great example: having his mother's service at your house. It never occured to him what position that would put you in, or how it would make YOU feel. It's what HE wanted to do. He even stole your idea about having the service there.

SELFISH: He does whatever HE feels like doing. One day he feels like being personable, the next day, not so much. He's not thinking how it affects you. He's just doing what HE feels like doing. 

He doesn't want to give you reason, or have to talk about your relationship, or your feelings because that makes him feel like an a$$hole, and after all.....how could HE be an a$$hole?

You are not a person to him of equal value to him. You are something he wanted, he went after, he got, and now only takes out occasionally to play with or aknowledge.

He's not doing it out of spite, or on purpose. It's just how he is.

Now sit down and do some figuring. Tell him that since he no longer wants a relationship with you, then he is now a roommate. Tell him how much you want from him for rent (and don't be generous, figure in everything from housing costs to food to toiletries). Give him a choice of chores that he is to do and if he doesn't want to do them, then he can babysit. This is your house, you make the rules.


----------



## justhadtosay

ok so I happened on this site the other day bored at work and saw this post. An hour later I had to create an account just to respond.

Ive been in the same place as you once, tho not nearly for as long and without a child. I did however take whatever little bit of niceness he would throw my way and be so excited when I got it. I may have told others I didnt care, but I did, otherwise, why was I there. I know the reasons you are there, fine so be it, you have to stay for now. 

You dont however have to take the slightest brush in the hall and run with it and let it make your whole day better.

You keep saying whatever you did made him so mad he hates you and wont forgive you. You just want to know so as not to do it the next time. Well Im gonna tell you what you did. You didnt stand up for yourself when he treated you poorly. When he said wanted to be done and treated you like nothing more than a friend you still tried to make it work. You call him sweetie and honey and tell him you love him. That in itself is a huge turnoff for guys. Especially if they told you they dont want to be together anymore. 

How do I know this, my ex told me. He didnt think we should be together anymore, there was nothing wrong, he just didnt think he was ready. Well now how is that possible, we have great communication, fun together, his family loves me, good bedroom romance. Whats not to be ready for. So I tried. I tried so very hard. I did things for him, I stuck by him because he himself had said no one ever had. I was going to prove him wrong, we were good together and he was going to chicken out on us, because he wasnt ready for how serious he was feeling.

You know what he told me, the more I tried to be nice, help him, do things for him, tell him I loved him, the more uncomfortable he got. The more I did it, the more annoyed he got. I was making him feel like an a^^, because there was no real reason and I was a good girl, he just didnt want to be with me. Period, end of story. Nothing I did, it just wasnt there anymore. It was alot of fun and first, and I was an awesome catch, but just not for him. 

The nicer I was the more he didnt like me, he told me he wanted to stop seeing each other, but would still talk to me all the time and still have me come over occasionally. It would be fun for that moment, but then he would act like nothing had happened. He said I made it worse, because all it did was making it like a glaring stoplight in front of his face how crappy he was treating me, by just let things linger on.

On top of it, I never talked bad about him or told anyone anything was wrong. We worked together and I didnt want anyone to think he was a bad guy. Plus, he would see Im not like other girls, I dont start badmouthing or being crazy when things get rough. Nope he said it made him dislike me more. The more I let him treat me like nothing, the more disrespect he had for me. The more disrespect he had, the more disgust he started to feel.

So all this time, I think Im showing him how great we can be and the whole time all Im doing is pushing him away. It was a shock and eye opener to realize that every nice thing, word, gesture, made him think less of me. All it did was remind him of what a crappy thing he was doing and make him feel worse about himself. Plus he told me, why would I respect you, you dont respect yourself.

That last line was huge for me. I eventually found him with another woman. He didnt have much to say for himself. I was soo hurt and mad. We had actually broken up for a bit because he took someone home. No one I knew he said, it wouldnt happen again. He looked me straight in the eye. He had never lied to me before and told me this the morning after it happened. I believe him. Did he want to stop seeing each other. No. Did he want her or me. I want you he said, Im just confused. Are you sure. Yes. ok ill give you some space. In his space, he continued to see her. He lied straight to my face, because he said he didnt want to hurt me, I was a nice girl. He told me what I wanted to hear so it wouldnt be so bad. He didnt have to see me cry and I didnt have to be hurt.

This was not the first time apparently he told me what I wanted to hear so I would just drop it and stop trying to fix it. It was easier to placate me and act like things were fine then to cause a disturbance. I wouldnt take a hint anyway, so why bother.

You can take what I say or not, but this is what my ex told me. This is why, even if there had been a chance, after me acting like that, there never would be. He didnt want someone he could walk all over. Who does.

I am nowhere near that dumb stupid girl anymore and am a much better person now. That relationship taught me alot. I am not mean or a b*^&% by any means, but I will stand up for myself. I wont be treated like Im nothing. I am in a great relationship now and him and I have talked about my previous one. He said, I wouldnt have stayed either. Girls like that are a dime a dozen. If I wanted a dumb girl, I could pick up a million in any bar. I want a girl who thinks for herself and uses her brain. Who is confident in who she is and loves herself as much as she loves me. Confidence is sexy.

Im not trying to be mean, but its not the end of the world and he is not the greatest man out there. He may have treated you better than you have ever been treated, but you can still do better. From what you described, this is my relationship to a T. If you let your H read this after you break up, he will tell you yes, she was right. 

You might have gotten to work it out one day, but not anymore. You have pushed him away to far by being so clingy, needy and having no respect. You call him sweetie and honey and give him whatever he wants. He tests you and you continually fail by not sticking up for yourself and putting his wants first.

Not that is a bad thing. I dont believe in never putting your spouse first, but there has to be a balance.

JMO.


----------



## Lostandconfused

snix11 said:


> Where I was strong, i'm now controlling
> where I was driven, i'm now demanding
> where I was beautiful, i'm now ugly
> 
> It's all in how you chose to see things. (


:iagree:

Snix, I apologize I haven't read this entire thread, only a few posts actually but this statement by you caught my eye.

You have hit upon a truth here that is worth remembering and pondering by us all. It's similar to something my mother used to tell me. Every characteristic has two ends of it's spectrum. It's all in how it's delivered/perceived. 

The things that you found/find attractive in your spouse/signif other are going to be the very traits that drive you crazy as well. So, she would say, remember when his "piddling around" is driving you nuts, it's his laid back approach to life that attracted you.

We can all learn something valuable in your words. Learn to look at the positive side of a trait in someone else and learn to LIVE the positive side of our traits.

GBY Snix,
Lost


----------



## snix11

recent_cloud said:


> you twist an analogy about emotional growth into a salacious remark
> 
> combined with what you said about your daughter
> 
> i'm not impressed.


Quit picking on DC, he is what he is. That is his idea of lightening the moment. He isn't bad people, he's just different. 

And Recent, you can stop cutting in for Rhea. I'll bet she has big girl panties too and can stick up for herself


----------



## snix11

scarletblue said:


> Could it be that he's lazy, self-centered, and selfish?
> 
> Sure, in the beginning he was wonderful. The fun of persuing what you want and getting it. HE decided HE wanted something and went after it...YOU. Then he got you. No more fun in the chase game there.
> 
> Now he's moved in and got you....out comes the lazy part. It's easier to just stay there and let you take care of house and kids. It's a pain in the butt to have to do what it takes to move out, etc... Easier just to stay with you.
> 
> He still sleeps with you because the bed is comfortable. If he wants a little attention, he just has to rub his foot against your leg. If he doesn't want attention, he just pushes you away. No big deal to him.....HE'S NOT THINKING ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS...HE'S THINKING ABOUT HIS.
> 
> He doesn't hate you. He's not angry with you. You're a good woman. You're OK to hang around with sometimes....when HE feels like it.
> 
> LAZY: He's too lazy to leave you. He's too lazy to work on the relationship.
> 
> SELF-CENTERED:He's self-centered, not arrogant or conceded. He just sees how things affect him, not others. A great example: having his mother's service at your house. It never occured to him what position that would put you in, or how it would make YOU feel. It's what HE wanted to do. He even stole your idea about having the service there.
> 
> SELFISH: He does whatever HE feels like doing. One day he feels like being personable, the next day, not so much. He's not thinking how it affects you. He's just doing what HE feels like doing.
> 
> He doesn't want to give you reason, or have to talk about your relationship, or your feelings because that makes him feel like an a$$hole, and after all.....how could HE be an a$$hole?
> 
> You are not a person to him of equal value to him. You are something he wanted, he went after, he got, and now only takes out occasionally to play with or aknowledge.
> 
> He's not doing it out of spite, or on purpose. It's just how he is.
> 
> Now sit down and do some figuring. Tell him that since he no longer wants a relationship with you, then he is now a roommate. Tell him how much you want from him for rent (and don't be generous, figure in everything from housing costs to food to toiletries). Give him a choice of chores that he is to do and if he doesn't want to do them, then he can babysit. This is your house, you make the rules.


WOW. 

Only took 500 posts, but I finally got to what I think is the 'truth' Thanks  

thank you thank you thank you. This i can do


----------



## snix11

justhadtosay said:


> ok so I happened on this site the other day bored at work and saw this post. An hour later I had to create an account just to respond.
> 
> Ive been in the same place as you once, tho not nearly for as long and without a child. I did however take whatever little bit of niceness he would throw my way and be so excited when I got it. I may have told others I didnt care, but I did, otherwise, why was I there. I know the reasons you are there, fine so be it, you have to stay for now.
> 
> You dont however have to take the slightest brush in the hall and run with it and let it make your whole day better.
> 
> You keep saying whatever you did made him so mad he hates you and wont forgive you. You just want to know so as not to do it the next time. Well Im gonna tell you what you did. You didnt stand up for yourself when he treated you poorly. When he said wanted to be done and treated you like nothing more than a friend you still tried to make it work. You call him sweetie and honey and tell him you love him. That in itself is a huge turnoff for guys. Especially if they told you they dont want to be together anymore.
> 
> How do I know this, my ex told me. He didnt think we should be together anymore, there was nothing wrong, he just didnt think he was ready. Well now how is that possible, we have great communication, fun together, his family loves me, good bedroom romance. Whats not to be ready for. So I tried. I tried so very hard. I did things for him, I stuck by him because he himself had said no one ever had. I was going to prove him wrong, we were good together and he was going to chicken out on us, because he wasnt ready for how serious he was feeling.
> 
> You know what he told me, the more I tried to be nice, help him, do things for him, tell him I loved him, the more uncomfortable he got. The more I did it, the more annoyed he got. I was making him feel like an a^^, because there was no real reason and I was a good girl, he just didnt want to be with me. Period, end of story. Nothing I did, it just wasnt there anymore. It was alot of fun and first, and I was an awesome catch, but just not for him.
> 
> The nicer I was the more he didnt like me, he told me he wanted to stop seeing each other, but would still talk to me all the time and still have me come over occasionally. It would be fun for that moment, but then he would act like nothing had happened. He said I made it worse, because all it did was making it like a glaring stoplight in front of his face how crappy he was treating me, by just let things linger on.
> 
> On top of it, I never talked bad about him or told anyone anything was wrong. We worked together and I didnt want anyone to think he was a bad guy. Plus, he would see Im not like other girls, I dont start badmouthing or being crazy when things get rough. Nope he said it made him dislike me more. The more I let him treat me like nothing, the more disrespect he had for me. The more disrespect he had, the more disgust he started to feel.
> 
> So all this time, I think Im showing him how great we can be and the whole time all Im doing is pushing him away. It was a shock and eye opener to realize that every nice thing, word, gesture, made him think less of me. All it did was remind him of what a crappy thing he was doing and make him feel worse about himself. Plus he told me, why would I respect you, you dont respect yourself.
> 
> That last line was huge for me. I eventually found him with another woman. He didnt have much to say for himself. I was soo hurt and mad. We had actually broken up for a bit because he took someone home. No one I knew he said, it wouldnt happen again. He looked me straight in the eye. He had never lied to me before and told me this the morning after it happened. I believe him. Did he want to stop seeing each other. No. Did he want her or me. I want you he said, Im just confused. Are you sure. Yes. ok ill give you some space. In his space, he continued to see her. He lied straight to my face, because he said he didnt want to hurt me, I was a nice girl. He told me what I wanted to hear so it wouldnt be so bad. He didnt have to see me cry and I didnt have to be hurt.
> 
> This was not the first time apparently he told me what I wanted to hear so I would just drop it and stop trying to fix it. It was easier to placate me and act like things were fine then to cause a disturbance. I wouldnt take a hint anyway, so why bother.
> 
> You can take what I say or not, but this is what my ex told me. This is why, even if there had been a chance, after me acting like that, there never would be. He didnt want someone he could walk all over. Who does.
> 
> I am nowhere near that dumb stupid girl anymore and am a much better person now. That relationship taught me alot. I am not mean or a b*^&% by any means, but I will stand up for myself. I wont be treated like Im nothing. I am in a great relationship now and him and I have talked about my previous one. He said, I wouldnt have stayed either. Girls like that are a dime a dozen. If I wanted a dumb girl, I could pick up a million in any bar. I want a girl who thinks for herself and uses her brain. Who is confident in who she is and loves herself as much as she loves me. Confidence is sexy.
> 
> Im not trying to be mean, but its not the end of the world and he is not the greatest man out there. He may have treated you better than you have ever been treated, but you can still do better. From what you described, this is my relationship to a T. If you let your H read this after you break up, he will tell you yes, she was right.
> 
> You might have gotten to work it out one day, but not anymore. You have pushed him away to far by being so clingy, needy and having no respect. You call him sweetie and honey and give him whatever he wants. He tests you and you continually fail by not sticking up for yourself and putting his wants first.
> 
> Not that is a bad thing. I dont believe in never putting your spouse first, but there has to be a balance.
> 
> JMO.


Other than the fact that he still calls ME honey too, man do I think you may have something there. 

To hell with when he leaves, I'll give it to him tonight and see if he says this is correct. If it is, it will make SO much sense. Thanks. :smthumbup:


----------



## StrongEnough

snix11 said:


> Quit picking on DC, he is what he is. That is his idea of lightening the moment. He isn't bad people, he's just different.
> 
> And Recent, you can stop cutting in for Rhea. I'll bet she has big girl panties too and can stick up for herself


Snix,

You do a great job sticking up for others. Now channel that energy and stick up to Mr.Z! Stick up for yourself! Don't keeping hoping for change, make it happen.


----------



## snix11

Strong, you are excused. 

Great words, but with no substance or usable input.


----------



## snix11

Update - don't read too much into it 

he gave me a hug before he left for work
called me from work to ask how i was and say he'd be home early
I'm still upset over last night's choice of movie - won't be doing THAT anymore.
i'm making appts to talk to bankruptcy atty's
and going to see about some transitional housing next week
still looking for jobs
still dealing with a nasty x who is trying to take advantage of me
getting ready to lose two lawsuits by default because i cant afford my atty any more (they quit last month)
personal feelings for Mr Z - exhausted mostly. i still like him, love him. know he doesn't return those feelings. trying to deal with things one day at at time.


----------



## StrongEnough

snix11 said:


> Strong, you are excused.
> 
> Great words, but with no substance or usable input.


Wow, not sure why I even bothered. Everyone here has given you usable input. Pages of it. You choose to ignore it and play the martyr. I try to encourage you and you are ignorant about it.

Thanks for excusing me though:crazy:


----------



## snix11

Strong enough.. it's ok sweetie. I didn't really expect you to understand. *pats head* there there, try not to worry yer little head about it 

Run along now...


----------



## StrongEnough

snix11 said:


> Strong enough.. it's ok sweetie. I didn't really expect you to understand. *pats head* there there, try not to worry yer little head about it
> 
> Run along now...


No wonder you have issues in your relationship. You demean people for no reason. Enjoy your misery.


----------



## snix11

LOL... as for 'strongenough' he/she demeaned me first  so there, nya... lol... "enjoy your misery" LOL... wow what a great person.. *note the sarcasm*

*.. hey justhadtosay.... he read it!!*

He said 'it was pretty close!' 

DAMN... *finally*... some real info from him!!! I can't wait to find out what was close and what wasn't 

COOL! thanks again... cool cool cool


----------



## StrongEnough

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Skewed view and exactly the response I figured. 

Thanks!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## dcrim

Recent, I don't want to hijack this thread...so I'm not going to post anything after this (on this (sub)topic). If you feel the need to continue this, please do so via PM. 

My daughter is in the business. I don't have a problem with that, it's her life and I raised my kids to make their own decisions and abide with the consequences thereof. If you (or anyone) have a moral objection to that...tough. I took pix of her, for her, at her request. They were not "action" shots, but along the lines of glamour and fashion pix. I've shown some of them at work and the guys are impressed at how good looking she is and the pix are... sensual, at best; not sexual. I know what she does. It wouldn't be my choice...but it is hers. I do not discuss her lifestyle with others (or, as here, anonymously - and no, I'm not going to provide links)... those at my work only know she's an attractive model (and she has done that before). 

So...don't condemn me for another's lifestyle (even if it is my daughter), please. It's what she wants to do and I will always support her (and my other kids) as long as it IS what they want to do. 

Snix, thanks for sticking up...it's appreciated. I don't particularly mind what others think about me...that's their "problem".  Once in a while I do mind what others think of others...hence my chilling out effort...  I am making an effort to make myself better, no matter what anyone else thinks (it matters to me, not what others think).


----------



## recent_cloud

snix11 said:


> And Recent, you can stop cutting in for Rhea. I'll bet she has big girl panties too and can stick up for herself


based on this thread i'm not convinced you know what 'stick up for herself' means.


----------



## StrongEnough

recent_cloud said:


> based on this thread i'm not convinced you know what 'stick up for herself' means.


Get ready for your head patting and being excused!:rofl:


----------



## Sandy55

:lol::iagree:
Accurate observation, RC.


----------



## Rhea

snix11 said:


> Quit picking on DC, he is what he is. That is his idea of lightening the moment. He isn't bad people, he's just different.
> 
> And Recent, you can stop cutting in for Rhea. I'll bet she has big girl panties too and can stick up for herself



I personally am not a big fan of panties...

However I do throw a pair on here or there when the need arises...

and Recent's opinions are just that...his.


----------



## Rhea

snix11 said:


> WOW.
> 
> Only took 500 posts, but I finally got to what I think is the 'truth' Thanks
> 
> thank you thank you thank you. This i can do


Although I find what the OP said to be very insightful and true Snix, I'm pretty sure it sums up to you being a very well worn doormat of which has been stated to you in very clear terms several if not 100's of times throughout this 500 post ungodly amount of pages thread...


----------



## dcrim

ROTFLOL! Rhea! Sorry, couldn't myself!

Snix, you know I love you! But at some point...you have to get on with life... I know it hurts, I now it's not fun...I know the pain...Damn (dang!) ... 

ah, deleted a sentence...


----------



## scarletblue

OK, forging ahead to the desired end result.....Snix's happiness.

So, now you know that most of what Mr.Z's deal is. Shouldn't you now be focusing not on the "why's" but more on the "how to move on's"?

You can spend years trying to figure out why someone doesn't want to be with you, and the end result is......you've spent years trying to figure out why. Knowing why doesn't change the end result. Although you may feel some type of relief in knowing.

Now, time for the next step.


P.S. You can pat me on the head if you want. I'm short, I'm used to it.


----------



## nightshade

:scratchhead:

I don't think anyone's input is really wanted anymore.


----------



## justhadtosay

snix11 said:


> *.. hey justhadtosay.... he read it!!*
> 
> He said 'it was pretty close!'
> 
> *DAMN... finally... some real info from him!!! I can't wait to find out what was close and what wasn't
> 
> COOL! thanks again... cool cool cool *


ok Im gonna tell you what I just got from your statement. You are excited because now you guys can talk and discuss and you can understand. He will tell you what things he didnt like and you will agree to try to be different. 

He doesnt want you to change for him. Its annoying, pathetic and a turn off. No matter what you do now, its not going to fix it. Changing for him doesnt prove how much you love him, it proves how little you love yourself.

He doesnt need to tell you anything. I told you everything in my response. He doesnt respect you because you dont respect yourself. He wanted to be done, you kept hanging on. You became desperate and needy. No one likes that, guys or girls. 

Now I cant speak for him, so I cant say for 100% that he will never want to be with you again. But I can say 98% sure he doesnt. Whatever chance you had, you ruined. Had you after a normal amount of time and counseling, just stopped, you might have had something later. Now, after all this, I doubt it. Look how long its taken him to break up with you this time? Why would he put himself through that again?

Hes there because like someone else said, its easier to get everything for himself ready. He may not be trying to screw you either, but I guarantee you, you are not his first priority. "He" is his first priority. He has made that very clear, by telling kids he's leaving, but you he's not. Telling them he is taking the baby, and you he's not. He's getting his ducks in a row, not yours.

Plus, most guys are not going to leave something that "works for now" until they know they are about to get something better. Believe me, had he found someone else he could be with, he would have been gone a long time ago. I think if you look at his actions as opposed to what he says, you will see I am right.

Again, Im sorry you are going through all of this. Its horrible to realize how stupid one can be when they think they are in love. Yes I said think. Did I love my ex, very much. I am thankful we dated when we did, everyday. That relationship taught me alot. For the good part of it, it taught me how to love again, that just because people fight, does not mean they have to yell or call names. He showed me how to have fun again and live and laugh and love. Cliche, but yes that is what I needed at that time in my life.

I took a year off from dating after him. I took a year to myself. To learn and to grow. I met someone after that, by chance. I am in a wonderful awesome relationship. In 3 years, we have disagreed a handful of times. After 3 years, we are still in love and excited to see each other everyday. We are sarcastic, playful, flirty and fun together. We disagree, yes, we have even argued. We dont put down, or yell, or hit, any of those things ever. Somedays I think hes a total moron, but if I tell him when Im calm, he listens. He does not however always agree that he is one, but he listens.

The right person is out there. Be happy with yourself and be happy alone first tho before you go looking. You cant make someone else happy, if you cant even make yourself happy.

I am posting a poem that means alot to me and helped me understand so much the first time I read it. Please take the time to read it, more than once if you can. Write it down, or print it out. Keep it with you. Read it often. Good luck to you.

A reason, a season or a lifetime !


----------



## snix11

We had a loooooooong talk last night. 

wow, what a wonderful guy Mr. Z is


----------



## scarletblue

:scratchhead:


----------



## MsStacy

and he said..........?

what was accomplished?


----------



## snix11

Amazing. wonderful. truthful. insightful. things.


----------



## euphoria

FYI - Snix is not looking for advice. She is looking for pats on the back, 'poor you''s and a bunch of oohing and aahing over how much she puts up with and what a great wife she is. In reality she is in no way married to him, but to someone else she is not even divorced. I followed her thread for several years on another forum and have avoided this one. I know of another poster from another board that tried to warn people here not to waste their time and that person was banned indefinitely from talk about marriage! I am guessing that will happen to me also, which I feel is unfair. I am only stating the obvious and letting everyone know that we posted advice for 3 years and nothing was none was taken. NONE! That is fine and I wish you all the best snix. Truly I do. Just want to let people know that unless you have lots of free time and unlimited patience, you may want to stop now. In addition to all of this there are lots of criminal charges against this woman for fraud, extortion, etc. She is now being sued and facing jail time, so is her boyfriend by the way...also this is the real reason she won't seperate from him (she needs him on her side in court!!). Also the reason for being broke.


So, Hopefully I am not banned as I do enjoy reading threads on this site. I am in no way, shape or form a stalker...as I am sure she will make me out to be. Just a good intentioned poster on an anonymous board giving a heads up...I would say ttyl...but that may not be the case for me..lol

Snix, I truly hope that you stop playing games on forums and actually DO something with your life. Move on, you do not need him. 

Euphoria aka Cat


----------



## euphoria

Don't worry, I will not post anymore Snix. Just being fair to others who are devoting time and energy to a lost cause. Of course, I hope it isn't...I hope you wake up soon and make some big changes. Your kids deserve it. How many men have been in and out? At least 4 as there are 4 different dads. And one of them raped your retarded daughter for God's sake! How can I get through to you that YOU DO NOT NEED A MAN! And I know your answer "I know I don't need one, but I want one". Well too bad, if you ask me your kids probably want a normal life..and deserve one as well. Good luck and God Bless.


----------



## StrongEnough

Snix,

Never PM me again. 

Everyone on this board would be shocked to see what you wrote to me.


----------



## snix11

Strong... i seriously doubt that  never post on my threads again and I wont 

if you can't take it, don't dish it out..


----------



## snix11

LOL... euphoria... wow 

have you been smoking captain crunch?


ohhhh! it's Cat! ok, now i get it.. the 'I'm not a stalker' has followed me from forum to forum, spouting all sorts of wonderous fictions, banned at least twice that I know of - now it makes more sense. She got mad when I caught her in a lie on a diff forum and she got banned for stalking someone else. She got a bit huffy and has been following me ever since. 

I always figured my stalkers would be men, go figure...  

She's a hoot... oh please, let her post some more... I can't wait to see what else i've done? International espionage was my favorite... LOL.. 

Recent, pass the popcorn :rofl:


----------



## euphoria

I have never followed you anywhere...

You are quite delusional...

I think your stint is up here, by now most are onto you anway snix

or blackbird, or raven or dreamgirl and on and on and on

Like I said I think most are onto you and if you check your other thread, someone agrees with me

Looks like its time to change the old username and come up with another spin on the same old story

May God forgive you for what you are doing to those children, however forgiveness is only given to those who repent


----------



## StrongEnough

snix11 said:


> Strong... i seriously doubt that  never post on my threads again and I wont
> 
> if you can't take it, don't dish it out..


I posted on "your thread" to support and encourage you. You got ignorant and excused me. I dished nothing out. Then you decided to PM me so as not to look bad on the thread. 

I think you need serious help.


----------



## snix11

euphoria said:


> I have never followed you anywhere...
> 
> You are quite delusional...
> 
> I think your stint is up here, by now most are onto you anway snix
> 
> or blackbird, or raven or dreamgirl and on and on and on
> 
> Like I said I think most are onto you and if you check your other thread, someone agrees with me
> 
> Looks like its time to change the old username and come up with another spin on the same old story
> 
> May God forgive you for what you are doing to those children, however forgiveness is only given to those who repent



Oh man this is good... you never followed me anywhere, but mention you knew i was on another forum... oh yeah. that makes perfect sense! 

and lets see, you make up multiple accounts to act like people agree with you. Hmm... only did that twice before. How's that working out for ya? 

and as for the other names, you made those up to? don't you have any other hobbies? 

And... here comes the bible thumping... wow... what else you got?


----------



## snix11

Goodness gracious  

I finally get some good advice (thank you!) and I take it... I work things out so we are both ok with it. 

And NOW ya'll pick on me? 

Isn't that a little backwards?


----------



## StrongEnough

Hey Snix~

STOP F***ING PMING ME! I will continue to post on "your thread" and defend myself from your craziness. I am confident you are a dramatic individual. 

I keep reporting your PMs, so when you are banned, I will take all the credit and no one else on TAM has to deal with not agreeing with you and dealing with your crazy PMs.


----------



## euphoria

snix11 said:


> Oh man this is good... you never followed me anywhere, but mention you knew i was on another forum... oh yeah. that makes perfect sense!
> 
> and lets see, you make up multiple accounts to act like people agree with you. Hmm... only did that twice before. How's that working out for ya?
> 
> and as for the other names, you made those up to? don't you have any other hobbies?
> 
> And... here comes the bible thumping... wow... what else you got?



*don't you have any other hobbies?* 

Yes I do. Are you looking for a new one? Is the old manipulating people on anonymous forums getting old for you? How about going back to the old extortion and fraud hobby? Or the making babies with strangers and moving them in hobby? Id say it looks to be getting close to that time again, huh Lila, lol. What will this be #7 babydaddy. That seems to be your best hobby to date.

Good Luck with everything.


To Reiterate: (I excuse your slowness. Will explain for others since you know the sad truth)

I know you from another website...most here have contacted me and know the forum as well as the names. I have never followed you anywhere...you are delusional as I mentioned (and most here know this as true)

As said before if you do a search on the other forum with those names you will find...Guess? Identical postings as Snix has here. Yes a thread titled "Did I just get Insulted" and "What would you do if your husband asked for DNA test" and so on. They are posted on this site under your other alias' with exact same wording as here. Just minor changes and lies mixed in. Actually there are about 4 sites in all to be hones


----------



## dcrim

I'm not sure what's going on here...but it's obvious euphoria knows snix from other forums (even i recognized one of the nicks mentioned). 

I think snix has been doing whatever she can to try to salvage her life. We also talk offline but I'm not going to post anything she hasn't. I know what post 549 was about and I think now she will have an easier time moving on. I think she only wanted to update the rest of us. 

When I was dumped...all I wanted to know was why? I also knew that I'd never find out. I don't hate my xgf but I don't want to talk to or see her again. snix still has feelings for the Z but, I think, can finally see that the end is truly in sight. 

She has shown me that she is a nice person, just stuck in an untenable situation. Trying to comprehend it. She wants what we all want...life, love, happiness, someone to share with; but is being denied it through no fault of her own. 

Sometimes it may seem like "poor me"...but I read these posts of hers as "here's what I now know". Even I've told her to kick his sorry a$$ out!  I think she's doing the best she can with what she has (or doesn't have). 

Yes, it sometimes seems frustrating when she seems to be making no progress...but even little steps are still steps. Soon enough she will be able to heal and get better. Then, I'm sure, we'll be hearing all about her date nights!  

Hang in, snix...


----------



## euphoria

dcrim said:


> I'm not sure what's going on here...but it's obvious euphoria knows snix from other forums (even i recognized one of the nicks mentioned).
> 
> I think snix has been doing whatever she can to try to salvage her life. We also talk offline but I'm not going to post anything she hasn't. I know what post 549 was about and I think now she will have an easier time moving on. I think she only wanted to update the rest of us.
> 
> When I was dumped...all I wanted to know was why? I also knew that I'd never find out. I don't hate my xgf but I don't want to talk to or see her again. snix still has feelings for the Z but, I think, can finally see that the end is truly in sight.
> 
> She has shown me that she is a nice person, just stuck in an untenable situation. Trying to comprehend it. She wants what we all want...life, love, happiness, someone to share with; but is being denied it through no fault of her own.
> 
> Sometimes it may seem like "poor me"...but I read these posts of hers as "here's what I now know". Even I've told her to kick his sorry a$$ out!  I think she's doing the best she can with what she has (or doesn't have).
> 
> Yes, it sometimes seems frustrating when she seems to be making no progress...but even little steps are still steps. Soon enough she will be able to heal and get better. Then, I'm sure, we'll be hearing all about her date nights!
> 
> Hang in, snix...


Be very careful not to give her ANY personal information!! I can refer at least 5 people to you that have had serious issues with harassment.


----------



## Leahdorus

That's enough of this. This thread is now locked.


----------

