# Sex without love/caring/concern?



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Is it possible to engage in a long term sexual relationship, without ever developing feelings of caring, concern, and/or love? We hear much talk about FWB, sex only relationships, selective "booty calls", and even Hollywood had a whole spate of movies dealing with this topic a few years ago. But how realistic is it to think that emotions will never come into play between 2 consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship? Is it different if it is a man or a woman? 

I ask my W about the time we were separated pending D and she was involved in relationships. One OM in particular met this description: they started out as drinking buddies at karaoke bars, soon to become sexual partners at the end of each night out. They were both admitted sex addicts, so this arrangement was fine at first: get drunk then get laid. She said he was funny and very kind at first, always complimentary, buying drinks/food and giving her a ride home. After about 10 times OM decides they should try it without drinking first to "see if it makes a difference" at the house. He then started dropping by during the day for lunch or a romp, and going out a couple nights a week as well. This began a 3 year relationship between these two, spending time together a couple of times (on average) a week. 

She indicated over the course of relationship they went thru several phases where she would start caring for him and getting emotionally attached, then he would pull away or try to become controlling. Later he became emotionally attached and starting making plans for them to run off and get married, then she would pull away or tell him no, which really upset him and he would call her, crying on the phone. Not long ago I found an old love note from him, apparently they had code words like "Olive Juice" instead of I love you and pet names for each other (he called her Sweetness), which indicates love and concern. They were not exclusive, but didn't always tell the other about new romantic interests. 

I suspect her situation was in the majority: that it is hard to separate the physical act of sex from the emotional aspects of love/care/concern in a long-term (6+ months) relationship.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I had dinner this week with a male friend of mine and we started talking about this. He has several FWB (I am not one) and he truly is able to separate his feelings from these women. I don't personally know any of the women (well, at least I don't think I do! He didn't name them!), so I have no idea just how they are able to do this because, as a woman, I'd find this very difficult. I also said I don't think I could do this because women will always have to be concerned about their "number" going higher, and I just think of sex differently. (Side note, he is 66 and said he couldn't care less about a woman's number because at his age he doesn't expect to find a woman with a low one lol). He did tell me a story about one woman he was just friends with and they "accidentally" had sex one night after too much to drink. He was totally fine with it, but she really regretted it and told him it would never happen again, and he respected that and they remained friends and she later got married. Turns out that woman in the story was the woman he'd just introduced me to who was sitting one table over from us.....he didn't tell me it was her until after she and her dinner partner left . They seemed totally fine and friendly together. 

From where I sit, women who are able to pull this off have no religious/moral "boundaries" when it comes to sex, have very healthy body images since they're being physically vulnerable with people they don't have emotional trust with, and don't care about their number.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I had dinner this week with a male friend of mine and we started talking about this. He has several FWB (I am not one) and he truly is able to separate his feelings from these women. I don't personally know any of the women (well, at least I don't think I do! He didn't name them!), so I have no idea just how they are able to do this because, as a woman, I'd find this very difficult. I also said I don't think I could do this because women will always have to be concerned about their "number" going higher, and I just think of sex differently. (Side note, he is 66 and said he couldn't care less about a woman's number because at his age he doesn't expect to find a woman with a low one lol). He did tell me a story about one woman he was just friends with and they "accidentally" had sex one night after too much to drink. He was totally fine with it, but she really regretted it and told him it would never happen again, and he respected that and they remained friends and she later got married. Turns out that woman in the story was the woman he'd just introduced me to who was sitting one table over from us.....he didn't tell me it was her until after she and her dinner partner left . They seemed totally fine and friendly together.
> 
> From where I sit, women who are able to pull this off have no religious/moral "boundaries" when it comes to sex, have very healthy body images since they're being physically vulnerable with people they don't have emotional trust with, and don't care about their number.


Yuk. I hope he isn't claiming to be a believer?

Shallow or non existent emotions and values.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Yuk. I hope he isn't claiming to be a believer?
> 
> Shallow or non existent emotions and values.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, he doesn't. He said he's afraid at age 66 if he doesn't "use it he's gonna lose it!" I think he really does desire an actual relationship. He was burned pretty bad several years ago, and it ended up being a huge financial cost to him (she convinced him to retire early to move with her, then dumped him and moved out of state). 

He definitely likes the ladies and everyone knows this about him, but he's also very respectful of women who aren't "like that" and he's a good friend.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Yuk. I hope he isn't claiming to be a believer?
> 
> Shallow or non existent emotions and values.


Or at least different values from yours.

And mine, but then I'm not the one judging him...


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

It's definitely possible, people do it every day. I don't think women can do this as easily as men seem to be able to (not all men), but some can.

Not my cup of tea, but whatever floats your boat


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## theworkwidow (Feb 24, 2016)

I could never have a physical relationship with someone if the emotional relationship weren't already in place. It's just the way I am. The thought of sex without love is just disgusting to me. Giving my body in an intimate manner to someone I didn't care about who didn't care about me. Why would I do that to myself? I just can't imagine being that desperate for sex.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I know all too well that I must have a reciprocal sense of attraction with and emotional feelings for any woman that I might desire to bed!

I really do not think that I could ever bed a woman strictly for physical sex without first having built up some kind of emotional feelings for!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Most people are unaware of the chemistry of sex and love. These are not things we can think into existence. When you have sex a hormone named Oxytocin is released. Its sole purpose since the dawn of man is to emotionally bond a couple together. It floods our brain for about an hour but longer in women. For this reason Oxytocin is often called the cuddle hormone. It is what is responsible for FWB falling in love. As with everything else, we are affected by our hormones differently than others. I fall in love after sex the third time. I met my wife and three weeks later we were engaged and still married 40+ years later.

The more you have sex, the more your are exposed to Oxytocin which makes you want to have sex again. It is a situation where the more sex you have, the more you want. The less sex you have, the less you feel like having it. My wife and I are aware of this which is why when things cool off, we schedule mandatory sex nights and sure enough, after a few weeks we are back in the saddle again. Of course Oxytocin is not going to work its magic unless there are other factors involved like attraction and liking the person. It is not going to bond you to those who you are not attracted to. 

Hope this answers your question. BTW, despite our lifelong love for each other, my wife and I are monogamish. We allow each other to give into sexual attraction that is difficult to avoid as long as it short term and not very often. My wife only took advantage of it twice in 40+ years. I took advantage of it 6 times in the same time frame. Having sex with someone has never been a dealbreaker for us. Having an emotional affair is. My wife and I also loved the same woman and we shared her for most of our marriage. We found a safe way to love another and it worked great for us. You can have a fantastic marriage and life if you are willing to ignore what we are taught about sexual fidelity which was useful at one time but really not since birth control.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think a lot of men *think* that they can do this, not so many actually can. 





frusdil said:


> It's definitely possible, people do it every day. I don't think women can do this as easily as men seem to be able to (not all men), but some can.
> 
> Not my cup of tea, but whatever floats your boat


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

My longest stretch with this was 8months with an FWB. Before that I was able to have causal sex with no emotional attachment but this was the longest go of it. To be honest she was a unique woman in her resolve to keep it seperate. We hooked up 2-3 times a week every week on average and after she left. When it ended it was because I found someone and wanted to date her exclusively so this clearly had to end. She was disappointed but happy for me. She met a guy soon after and is now engaged.

To make something like this work you need to have two people with stong boundrys to not cross that line.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I am still convinced that this situation is a rarity. LTR seem to always have the element of caring and love, otherwise they never last beyond the first few meetings, IMHO.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> I am still convinced that this situation is a rarity. LTR seem to always have the element of caring and love, otherwise they never last beyond the first few meeting, IMHO.


There can be relationships based solely on physical chemistry that have no possibility of an underlying friendship on which the couple are unable build respect and are able to care for each other beyond that of the motivation of just wanting more sex. 

I say this as one of my early LTRs where I wanted to love and care for my partner, I found myself unable to do so. I just wanted sex, and after I got it, I was done with her for the day.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Is it possible to engage in a long term sexual relationship, without ever developing feelings of caring, concern, and/or love? We hear much talk about FWB, sex only relationships, selective "booty calls", and even Hollywood had a whole spate of movies dealing with this topic a few years ago. But how realistic is it to think that emotions will never come into play between 2 consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship? Is it different if it is a man or a woman?


Long term? There is no doubt that some feelings develop, certainly caring and concern, probably affection, and usually friendship in most cases. But love? No, unless that means loving someone as a friend. Of course, some people will fall into romantic love over time, but that's not inevitable for men or women. I suppose some people can keep emotional distance even in long-term sex-only scenarios, where they have no other social interaction. That would not work for me, as I would not have sex with someone long term if I didn't like them enough to treat them as a friend.

I had a FWB for 5 years. We are still close friends, but neither of us ever had romantic love or a desire to become a couple. We definitely did - and still do - care deeply about each other as friends.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think a small subset of people can do this, but most cannot. I have no moral objections at all to FWB, but I know that it wouldn't work for me personally.


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## rileyawes (Jun 28, 2016)

Before we met, my husband had a three year FWB relationship with a woman he did not much above like. He wasn't attracted to her, either, so... She, on the other hand, fell in love with him.

While it is rarer for women to have sex without connection, I think because your wife was seeing and sleeping with multiple men, it kept her from forming a loving relationship with any one of them. Also, a relationship of shorter duration would have a smaller chance of having feelings develop, especially if it's only about sex, and there are no movies, dates, etc etc.

So, it's possible, but it sounds like in the case of your wife, it didn't happen.


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## Ol'Pal (Aug 24, 2015)

I've done it for 7 years, Just ask my wife...


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Some married people have sex that way, or lose the love and care feelings they may have once had, so why wouldn't unmarried people be able to have sex without developing love feelings?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

theworkwidow said:


> I could never have a physical relationship with someone if the emotional relationship weren't already in place. It's just the way I am. The thought of sex without love is just disgusting to me. Giving my body in an intimate manner to someone I didn't care about who didn't care about me. Why would I do that to myself? I just can't imagine being that desperate for sex.


I CAN imagine being pretty desperate for sex if I was single and not being able to find someone who loved me , wanted me, where we could ride off into the sunset in compatible bliss.. but I would always feel something beautiful was missing.. I know what I want.. I know what fulfills me..


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> Is it possible to engage in a long term sexual relationship, without ever developing feelings of caring, concern, and/or love? We hear much talk about FWB, sex only relationships, selective "booty calls", and even Hollywood had a whole spate of movies dealing with this topic a few years ago. But how realistic is it to think that emotions will never come into play between 2 consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship? Is it different if it is a man or a woman?
> 
> I ask my W about the time we were separated pending D and she was involved in relationships. One OM in particular met this description: they started out as drinking buddies at karaoke bars, soon to become sexual partners at the end of each night out. They were both admitted sex addicts, so this arrangement was fine at first: get drunk then get laid. She said he was funny and very kind at first, always complimentary, buying drinks/food and giving her a ride home. After about 10 times OM decides they should try it without drinking first to "see if it makes a difference" at the house. He then started dropping by during the day for lunch or a romp, and going out a couple nights a week as well. This began a 3 year relationship between these two, spending time together a couple of times (on average) a week.
> 
> ...


Who says friends don't love, have care or concern for each other? 

IMO, the distinctions between FWB and LTR are:
- We have not agreed to pool our resources for collaborative benefits, e.g., lowering cost of living
- We have no agreement to always be with each other
- We have not agreed to any sort of exclusive/monogamous relationship

IMO, none of the above suggest lack of care/concern/emotional desire.

I cannot remain for long in the presence of anybody of either gender, unless we've developed a level of concern and caring.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I CAN imagine being pretty desperate for sex if I was single and not being able to find someone who loved me , wanted me, where we could ride off into the sunset in compatible bliss.. but I would always feel something beautiful was missing.. I know what I want.. I know what fulfills me..


I think whether or not you're single and can't find anybody who wants you or not happily married where sex with your spouse does not necessarily indicate love, being cared for or wanted puts a different twist on this. It makes you more vulnerable, or yes, even desperate, to have what those in love have. Something beautiful definitely would be missing, the most important part would be missing, but in desperation to find it, you're willing to take a risk that somehow you will find something that at least resembles it with someone you don't love.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

badsanta said:


> I say this as one of my early LTRs where I wanted to love and care for my partner, I found myself unable to do so. I just wanted sex, and after I got it, I was done with her for the day.


I remember older posts where you spoke about this.. I felt bad for the woman... but maybe she didn't mind?? Did you end up hurting her.. did you break her heart Badsanta?? 

It almost seems , for many men.. in today's world.. this would just be seen as a hang up.. they would want to avoid such women.. just give me some sex please!

For those who seek to be loved, cherished, deeply desiring the authentic Romantic entanglement with another... we are more delicate, more sensitive... we need to be very careful / aware that just because we may feel a certain way.. may not mean anything to another.. even revulsion after the fact...

I need Love, romance & exclusivity to give myself.. to come alive.. I need to know I am special, loved just as much.. that's it's not "just for a night" -or until he meets another woman who strikes his fancy...

My husband is probably not typical.. we've talked about these sorts of things at length....he couldn't just "have sex" with anyone.. he has to have an emotional connection, the bonding is very special to him... 

We look at sex like below...I've shared this many times... sure we could do the act without it (lust is a strong craving after all [email protected]#)... though honestly.. I believe it would leave me tearful afterwards...without the rest, the emotional ties.. the afterglow...knowing the feelings just aren't there...very sad .



> *3. ** Romantic View *~
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jb02157 said:


> I think whether or not you're single and can't find anybody who wants you or not happily married where sex with your spouse does not necessarily indicate love, being cared for or wanted puts a different twist on this. It makes you more vulnerable, or yes, even desperate, to have what those in love have. *Something beautiful definitely would be missing, the most important part would be missing, but in desperation to find it, you're willing to take a risk that somehow you will find something that at least resembles it with someone you don't love*.


 Yes.. there IS great vulnerability here.. no doubt.. I don't mind being emotionally vulnerable , taking this sort of risk with someone "like minded"...with similar values, wants /dreams...

But let's say a man had a history of one night stands, FWB's -thinking nothing of it...maybe he's on Tinder prowling for sex.....I'd want nothing to do with someone like this... he'd not understand me..he'd probably even belittle me!..  Then I'd want to take his balls off... (kidding but yeah... it would pi$$ me off)... 

What does sex REALLY MEAN TO people?... it is just pleasure in the moment or is it so much more... it is something worth waiting for.. when it's right.. when a coupe is ALL IN...we all have these questions to answer...


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

SA, sex means different things at different times, and it means different things with different people. A person can feel one way with one person, and feel differently with another person. Sex and sexual partners can bring out different things in the same person, so sex with person A and person B feel different. A person changes over time as well, as does their sexuality, so even if everything else stays the same, their perspective and approach to sex and sexuality changes anyway. It's not one size fits all sexuality under every circumstance throughout a person's lifetime, it's not static and predictable.

So the questions about what does sex mean to a person should be more 'what does sex with THIS person mean at THIS time?"


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Yes.. there IS great vulnerability here.. no doubt.. I don't mind being emotionally vulnerable , taking this sort of risk with someone "like minded"...with similar values, wants /dreams...
> 
> But let's say a man had a history of one night stands, FWB's -thinking nothing of it...maybe he's on Tinder prowling for sex.....I'd want nothing to do with someone like this... he'd not understand me..he'd probably even belittle me!.. Then I'd want to take his balls off... (kidding but yeah... it would pi$$ me off)...
> 
> What does sex REALLY MEAN TO people?... it is just pleasure in the moment or is it so much more... it is something worth waiting for.. when it's right.. when a coupe is ALL IN...we all have these questions to answer...


The guy with the history of one night stands or wants a FWB thing I don't think of as being vulnerable nor desperate only predatory. The person I was referring to does not have love and wants to experience it even if it means taking a risk they wouldn't normally take. They have waited and waited and are pretty convinced they will never find the "right" person, only a person that will be willing to do it with them that has similar wants, dreams and values. They take a chance on it being right. It can really only be "right" when a couple is in love and all in beforehand. If you don't have that, yeah you can physically have sex, but it won't be what it can be.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I remember older posts where you spoke about this.. I felt bad for the woman... but maybe she didn't mind?? Did you end up hurting her.. did you break her heart Badsanta??


Thinking back, I don't even remember how the relationship ended. It is just as if she faded away. Before things ended I remember her complaining that she did not feel like I treated her like a girlfriend, but instead I treated her on a day to day basis the same way her brother would treat her (I assume that means that I was available, but that I was never really romantic or affectionate with her). 

I remember crossing paths with her and apologizing for my behavior and said that during the times we were together that I did not have a clear understanding of what I wanted in a relationship and that there was nothing wrong with her. By that time my wife and I were dating and I understood the importance of wanting to marry someone that understood my major. 

Badsanta


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Had a relationship before meeting my wife - I can't say that I didn't have feelings for her, but the sex is what kept me in the relationship. She had issues, but the sex covered it up. I tried to dump her around Thanksgiving, but ended up getting back with her for a bit - I missed the sex, and to be honest the sex we had after that was the best. 

I finally was able to dump her, but we got back together one night when drove to my house in the middle of the night while my wife (then GF) was out of town (we had a long phone call which involved phone sex). 

I did feel bad about dumping her, but didn't miss her nor did I look back.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jb02157 said:


> The guy with the history of one night stands or wants a FWB thing I don't think of as being vulnerable nor desperate only predatory. The person I was referring to does not have love and wants to experience it even if it means taking a risk they wouldn't normally take. They have waited and waited and are pretty convinced they will never find the "right" person, only a person that will be willing to do it with them that has similar wants, dreams and values. They take a chance on it being right. It can really only be "right" when a couple is in love and all in beforehand. If you don't have that, yeah you can physically have sex, but it won't be what it can be.


 There is always emotional risk, potential heartbreak in putting ourselves out there -in caring about someone more than they may care or want us back.... 

I think along the lines of this author Robert Weiss , leading expert in sexual disorders and addiction >  Do You Have An Intimacy Disorder? 

He speaks how many set themselves up for "emotional intensity" but it's not true intimacy ... 



> My clients want to have relationships, but they also want to be 100% certain that they won’t get hurt. For emotional self-protection, they tend to seek situations that offer controllable intimacy, which is an oxymoron.
> 
> *Emotional intensity*, over which you can feel some control, is not the same as genuine closeness. Being *vulnerable *enough to allow yourself to be fully known creates the potential for* true intimacy.* But this also comes with some risk.
> 
> ...



But still.. love is worth it.. I do feel it's much harder to find today though..


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

SimplyAmorous said:


> There is always emotional risk, potential heartbreak in putting ourselves out there -in caring about someone more than they may care or want us back....


I was fortunate to have wide-minded teachers as a kid. A particular poster showed up in many of the classrooms in my junior high school. 

"Humans are like turtles. We only make progress when we stick our necks out."

I started spending time with a girl in high school. Had no idea why. I mean, I had geek hobbies...electronics, woodworking, small engine repair, bicycling...back then, every high schooler bicycled, so that wasn't so much just a guy thing. In Junior High school, a new girl showed up and she was the first girl I thought attractive - petite and cute. Being a short guy, I was simply drawn to smaller. But...we talked a time or two and I never got anything out of it, so I just figured not all guys like girls, and I was one who didn't have any interest.

I guess what sparked me with the high school girl is that she showed interest in me...a trend that continued from then on...all my LTRs and SOs came from a woman showing interest in me.

So this girl calls and says let's go bike riding, so we did. Then she called and said let's go roller skating, which was a Saturday evening event. We did, I drove her home, and she told me it was her 16th birthday. Oh crap...I know what that's about "never been kissed" and all that, so nervous as hell, I did what society expects. She surprised me by saying "wow, you've had experience!" which I did not. But...in the embrace, I felt her little tiny breasts against me and now I knew at least one thing I wanted.

Over a few weeks, I braved embracing, touching her waist...all this things teenage boys do, assuming the girl can't tell. When my hands finally landed where they wanted, she said "it sure took you a long time!" and the ensuring conversation revealed another surprise - she liked being touched. My mom, you see, had clearly explained to her sons that women don't like sex, or being touched in a sexual way, but they let men do it so that they can get love in return. I felt lucky, because I'd met a girl who wasn't like my mom said they all are.

We were culturally different, it was quite the eye opener. She from a blue-collar family, two parents who didn't graduate high school, my folks college grads and while they weren't college profs, we lived in the neighborhood where the profs lived - clean but not fancy, as profs didn't make much in those days. We both laughed about how much 'splaining had to be done when one of us used a phrase the other had never heard. I liked spending time with her, and became attached to the physical parts - touching is all we did - but when I went off to college, I did not long for her...she had a few more years to go, being two years younger and having been held back a year.

So, in college, when first a girl showed me attention, I thought cool. But...this time we connected on many different levels. We spoke of dreams and desires and our worries about making decent grades...we had something in common. I fell in love. And it was fabulous. I was still not going to have intercourse, so sex was still something done for pleasure without risk of pregnancy, and I learned a lot - she was older. I was jubilant, my whole world was bright because of our connection. But I was too immature and I got dumped, for the first time in my life.

That was the highest high I'd ever had, and the lowest low and since then, I've managed to regulate both better.

As bad as I felt having been dumped, it was worth the glory of being so well connected...so, after college GF #2, when I interacted with a potential romantic relationship, I was far more interested in how we connected, figuring sex may or may not happen, but was not nearly as important. I knew that if I connected with a woman, and physical intimacy did not happen, I wouldn't prefer it...but I also knew that there was more to learn and explore emotionally and intellectually.

I did the Bluto Blutarsky plan for college, taking six years to get a four year degree. That first college GF lasted less than a semester. The next one was possibly the most balanced and stable woman I've ever been involved with, from a rock-stable family...outside of her, every woman I've dated has had daddy problems. Second college GF began by simply doing a lot together...we tried out expensive restaurants, took trips. I was so into her heart and her head that I hadn't noticed her figure until months into it, and I was more nervous than ever, since I treasured this one and didn't want to mess it up. But I ventured and she accepted and it was wonderful. She being a nursing student, had great curiosity about the body, so we were more experimental, but still observed that boundary. Our split was odd...she got the degree and went to work. While working ER, she realized she loved police officers, so at some point, she sent me an "it's been fun" letter.

I decided to buckle down and finish college without a woman distracting me. But a cute skinny little girl from a study group seemed to take an interest...turned out she always struggled with class and thought me a good study partner and teacher. I figured that's what it was and was fine. But study hours go long into the night and before long, she was crashing on my couch and I eventually invited her to the more comfy bed. The evolution of that one was weird, and I fell in love a third time without even thinking it possible with a study partner. By the time our two years was done, though, I had seen major limitations in her...fear of everything, couldn't drive, knew she'd get ripped of at grocery stores...I felt that staying together with her would be like caring for an invalid. I graduated first, we parted, both crying waterfalls.

The pain of separation is real, but the joy of being in love is worth it.

Sex? Yes, I do consider it part of a complete relationship. I could be romantic without it, but I will always want it in an LTR. If my wife decided she never wanted it again, I have to admit that I'd be thinking really hard about how to handle that...


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

What about sex as recreation? Just because. Scratch an itch. One night stand.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

SunnyT said:


> What about sex as recreation? Just because. Scratch an itch. One night stand.


Yeah, this thread mystifies me. Casual sex has been happening forever, short term, long term, fwb, ONS, affairs. Men talk about the 'skanks' they had sex with but would never marry because they only want to marry "good girls." Men in sexless marriages always claim sex is about expressing love and feeling loved, but they have plenty of sex with "not Mrs. Right" before marriage, and that wasn't love but was just sex. Wives sometimes feel that they are "just a hole" and their husbands don't care about them but about sex. Guys who have been cheated on are told to divorce their wives and quick run out and bang hotter and younger women as soon as possible and as often as possible. "Beta" guys are told to "man up" and learn how to be PUA's so they can pick up and bang hot chicks like the "alphas" do. Guys are told to read MMSLP so they can manipulate their wives into having more sex iwth them. And, um, porn!

Yes, there is PLENTY of sex out there without love, caring, or commitment. So what is the big mystery?


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Well that casual sex stuff is out there for women too. Just for FUN. 

I haven't loved everyone I ever had sex with. (In my younger days). Then I was married for 23 years and had ho-hum/adequate sex. Divorced, remarried and have awesome loving sex often. 

So, having spanned the spectrum in this lifetime...and being older and wiser....and being more secure in myself...aware of my sexuality ...I think, if I outlive my husband I could be in the frame of mind to enjoy a FWB. I think it is like someone else already said....it's about how you feel at a particular time in your life. 

I wouldn't trade NOW for anything, but having experienced this level of love, cherishing, sexually awesomeness...I don't think it could get better than this. So I'd have to refigure what I want/need and what/who that would entail. 

(  This all makes perfect sense to me...not sure if I'm saying it right.) 

Soooooooooooo, what about "dating sex"? Do you have to be in love to have sex? Do women REALLY worry about their "number"?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> Well that casual sex stuff is out there for women too. Just for FUN.


It sure is. That's why I think this question primarily comes up when women have casual sex without falling in love with their partners. Men have been doing it forever and no one questioned the lack of love and commitment on their part with their casual sex partners, but now that more women are _open _about having casual sex, there are questions and it makes people go "hmmm" and ask how it's possible.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I can't do that. Sex without love. Doesn't work for me.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

For me, no, not likely.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

norajane said:


> SA, sex means different things at different times, and it means different things with different people. A person can feel one way with one person, and feel differently with another person. Sex and sexual partners can bring out different things in the same person, so sex with person A and person B feel different. A person changes over time as well, as does their sexuality, so even if everything else stays the same, their perspective and approach to sex and sexuality changes anyway. It's not one size fits all sexuality under every circumstance throughout a person's lifetime, it's not static and predictable.
> 
> So the questions about what does sex mean to a person should be more 'what does sex with THIS person mean at THIS time?"


I'd prefer someone more consistent in this area...with similar values , to me it's a lifestyle...I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling as I do either.. but true... people can & do change.. others may appreciate those changes even.. yet others may not be comfortable with too many changes here.. Yes I would be one of those...as I personally still feel the same about it now as I did then... I would be deemed very predicable & static, I suppose... but that doesn't mean I wouldn't make an adventurous enthusiastic, giving sex partner to a worthy devoted man..

You said "Men have been doing it forever and no one questioned the lack of love and commitment on their part with their casual sex partners".... Again... I am the odd woman out.. I always cared.. and didn't want these sort of men..


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

SunnyT said:


> Well that casual sex stuff is out there for women too. Just for FUN.
> 
> *I haven't loved everyone I ever had sex with. (In my younger days). Then I was married for 23 years and had ho-hum/adequate sex. Divorced, remarried and have awesome loving sex often. *
> 
> ...


Similar here.

Casual sex is just no big deal to me as long as people are being respectful and stay safe. I had a FWB post divorce and we had a blast together, we both acknowledged we had no love for each other but liked each other. We had a common interest in a particular sport which we would do, then he would cook for me, have sex and I would go home. 

It is very possible to connect sexually and not be in love. Grown up people can do that without any drama or issues.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> I can't do that. Sex without love. Doesn't work for me.


Doesn't work for me neither. Makes it more difficult when you're in a bad marriage and the usual things men do won't work for you.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

With the partners I've had, I noticed one interesting commonality. Most of the time my partner wanted to make passionate love, with lots of foreplay and sweet nothings and talking and talking and more talking...

But sometimes a wife or girlfriend just wants to fvck. 

That's when a guy gets set back on his heels a bit. Its like she's saying "I love it when you make love to me, but sometimes I just want you to take me." 

It is a brain-drain sometimes having to steer the hazardous waters of a woman's whims.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I don't need love. I do need like - and lust. Either of these alone isn't enough anymore; either would do when I was much younger. And I can love someone but find them sexually repulsive. It seems like sex should be simple, but it's not!


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> With the partners I've had, I noticed one interesting commonality. Most of the time my partner wanted to make passionate love, with lots of foreplay and sweet nothings and talking and talking and more talking...
> 
> But sometimes a wife or girlfriend just wants to fvck.
> 
> ...


Are you saying that men want to either make love or f.uck, that they only like one style for their whole life?

Not my experience of men, the one that I am with now is very much a sometimes make love, sometimes just f.uck kind of guy. I am big enough to handle the hazardous waters of the male whims.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'd prefer someone more consistent in this area...with similar values , *to me it's a lifestyle*...I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling as I do either..


Same here. I haven't given up on the idea, that for me anyway, a lifestyle of keeping sex reserved for those you also truly love is the best way to go. I appreciate there are plenty that don't feel this way but I just don't see it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MrsHolland said:


> Are you saying that men want to either make love or f.uck, that they only like one style for their whole life?
> 
> Not my experience of men, the one that I am with now is very much a sometimes make love, sometimes just f.uck kind of guy. I am big enough to handle the hazardous waters of the male whims.


No i wasn't trying to be combative, but many men think they have to always be sweet and gentle and loving and caring and giving. That's all good and well, but I have found that sometimes women want to bypass that and just get down and dirty and let the man have his way with them. 

Are you not like that sometimes?


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

SunnyT said:


> What about sex as recreation? Just because. Scratch an itch. One night stand.



I have no doubt it works for some.

After I split from my ex in the 90s, I felt no desire to be emotionally close to anybody. My intent was to simply make and have friends, and I did so for a while. Life was good, I was busy, I could be happy alone or with someone or with many people. I was celibate, but not really thinking much about it.

More than one of my female friends made it evident that she'd be interested in something more, but I would just say I'm still recovering.

I happened across a woman whose entire approach seemed way more self-confident than average, and this always appealed to me. And yet, she was in poverty...happiness and money are not connected, this has been well-established, but at the time, I didn't know this. I took her to dinner, we talked, she seemed different and intriguing...had a past with drugs and alcohol, but she'd been abstinent for 25 years. I didn't want the evening to end, so when she suggested we retire to her place for a movie, I readily agreed.

Of course, within moments, it wasn't just a movie and I ended my celibacy. The next morning, I didn't really feel connected to her...not sure why. We talked and she mentioned that she'd been never all that interested in sex, but it was the only exercise she ever got...for her, it was just physical. And...that time it was for me, too. 

Jerry Garcia once said "In the 1960s, we learned that sex without love is an empty experience. And, as empty experiences go, not a bad one." So...I had that empty experience and it was OK, but I would not want to spend my time doing it again. But that's just me.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Remember, we are talking about a LTR (6 months or more). Can you really go that long without love, caring, and concern?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MrsHolland said:


> Are you saying that men want to either make love or f.uck, that they only like one style for their whole life?
> 
> Not my experience of men, the one that I am with now is very much a sometimes make love, sometimes just f.uck kind of guy. *I am big enough to handle the hazardous waters of the male whims.*


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> No i wasn't trying to be combative, but many men think they have to always be sweet and gentle and loving and caring and giving. That's all good and well, but I have found that sometimes women want to bypass that and just get down and dirty and let the man have his way with them.
> 
> Are you not like that sometimes?


I have never needed the stars to align if that is what you mean. I don"t see what should be complicated about being intimate with someone you love. The form that intimacy takes changes like the wind and I like that, one day passionate, one day "just do it", one day long and lazy. Whatever happens, happens.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> I don't need love. I do need like - and lust. Either of these alone isn't enough anymore; either would do when I was much younger. And I can love someone but find them sexually repulsive. It seems like sex should be simple, but it's not!


Mmmmmmmm......lust......


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

uhtred said:


> I think a small subset of people can do this, but most cannot. I have no moral objections at all to FWB, but I know that it wouldn't work for me personally.


I don't think the subset is small at all.

The major messages blaring at us in the Western World from media, press and government urge us in subtle and not-so-subtle ways, to be materialistic, results-driven and measure success by quantity and quality...none of which leads to intimacy in any way. The usual place people used to learn about becoming close, emotionally and spiritually, church, is now considered a crazy cousin that few people want to admit they've even met.

I know scads of couples who appear happy, and as you get close, you realize that to them, happy means "we are having sex and we have enough money to buy fun things".


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