# Am I Too Jealous Or Is My Wife More Than Just Friends With Her Colleague



## CaptainChaos

I have been married over 15 years, have children, and have never had any marriage issues. My wife works in a fairly stressful and demanding job. For most of our marriage, she has worked exclusively with other females due to the nature of what she does, until a few years ago when we had to relocate and her work partner happened to be male for the first time. The nature of her job requires a close working relationship with her colleague and a friendship has blossomed between them. He is roughly the same age, married, and has children as well. She has always become good friends with the previous female colleagues due to the nature of what they do, so it would only make sense a friendship would evolve based on prior experience as well as them having a number of common interests based on their occupation. I have met this man and his family and we have all been out together periodically without issue. He seems very nice. Although I do not believe that anything has happened between them on a physical level, I believe there is a fair amount of emotional involvement based on their circumstances. They text each other periodically outside of work, but not excessively. Nearly all of the time it is work related, but can have an air of playful banter between them on occasion. They will sometimes refer to each other as an ass, dude, ****, etc… while discussing their work. There has never been anything sexual whatsoever, other than this mild name calling and teasing back and forth. They do not call each other much outside of work and when they do, it is always work related. She has even suggested to me on occasion that I become friends with him as I would probably like him. There are no typical signs of an emotional/physical affair that I can see other than them being close friends due to their close work environment. They really appear to be colleagues who have simply become good friends because of how much they have in common. The problem I have is that she seems much more playful around him than with me. I see how they interact on occasion and the playful nature of their communication just seems too familiar and too comfortable for my liking (she laughs hysterically at his jokes). Is it normal to feel this way simply because I am a man seeing his wife have fun with another man and provide friendly attention between each other? I did confront her on one occasion and advised that I needed to understand the mechanics behind their friendship as I was feeling a bit jealous of how smitten she seems to be when she is around him. She simply said that I had nothing to worry about, he was like a brother to her, and that she is glad to have him as a friend. He makes the stressful work environment easier to cope with because of his crazy nature and understands the work related issues she has with the job. So… there is no evidence of anything that I have been able to find relative to a true physical or emotional affair, but my gut can’t seem to let go of this nagging feeling that there is more to the picture based solely on their playful interactions with each other. It really bothers me that they get along so well. And for the record, I have not found anything via text, e-mail, phone, facebook, etc… that would indicate there is a physical or emotional affair between them. Am I selfish and wrong to feel this way and is it merely me being insecure and over protective of my marriage? It’s just getting old with the kindergarten recess mentality with him and the back to reality home life with me… Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is eating me up inside.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> Am I selfish and wrong to feel this way


In a nutshell, YES!

You admit that NOTHING IS WRONG.
You admit that there is not the SLIGHTEST HINT of impropriety.
You are JEALOUS that she laughs and has more fun with him than with you! Why don't YOU do something about THAT?


Take her out on a date.
Joke and FLIRT with her (we LOVE that from hubby).
Get out of 'Mom & Dad' mode REGULARLY and be BEST FRIENDS and LOVERS...the kids WILL MOVE OUT someday.
Send her flower for NO REASON.
YOU plan something fun for the two of you (don't forget to make sure the kids have a sitter, if necessary).

How much fun would it be for YOU if YOU couldn't have fun with co-workers?
-Do you have that report, Melvin?
-Yes, I do John. Here it is.
-Sheila, where are the numbers for Webco?
-Marketing will have them ready after lunch.

NO-ONE wants to work in an atmosphere THAT cut-and-dried. Add to that the admittedly STRESSFUL environment of your wife's workplace, and it would REALLY be hellish.

Celebrate that your wife STILL likes to laugh and have fun! Now, GO GET SOME *WITH* HER!


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## Emerald

Was her relationship with her former FEMALE colleagues the same:

"After work texts some unrelated to work, an air of friendly banter, laughing hysterically at their jokes, emotional involvement, more playful involvement, kindegarten recess mentality, etc."

Research EA's on these boards. Many happily married people who think they will never cheat find themselves involved in one. Many people do not even know what an EA is.

She may be in an EA with this man but will not admit it to you because she doesn't want to hurt you or she may not have any romantic feelings for him. Only she knows.


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## Hicks

I agree that this is not ideal for your marriage. One on one togetherness with a person of the opposite sex breeds sexual feelings. You know enought to know the male in this equation certainly has sexual desire for your wife.

How important is her job to your family finances? How important is her job to her?

You have to decide that you have a rule in your world... That close friendships of the opposite sex do not fit in your marriage. No jealousy, just your policy... And start enforcing it.


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## CaptainChaos

Emerald said:


> Was her relationship with her former FEMALE colleagues the same:
> 
> "After work texts some unrelated to work, an air of friendly banter, laughing hysterically at their jokes, emotional involvement, more playful involvement, kindegarten recess mentality, etc."
> 
> Research EA's on these boards. Many happily married people who think they will never cheat find themselves involved in one. Many people do not even know what an EA is.
> 
> She may be in an EA with this man but will not admit it to you because she doesn't want to hurt you or she may not have any romantic feelings for him. Only she knows.



Thanks for the reply. They were the same with her female colleagues. I guess that is the issue I have. The only difference is that this is a dude and it makes me nervous. I have spent countless hours researching EA's and the one thing that has always been the case with her is that I have never known her to tell a lie ever... Even about really really small things.


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## CaptainChaos

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> In a nutshell, YES!
> 
> You admit that NOTHING IS WRONG.
> You admit that there is not the SLIGHTEST HINT of impropriety.
> You are JEALOUS that she laughs and has more fun with him than with you! Why don't YOU do something about THAT?
> 
> 
> Take her out on a date.
> Joke and FLIRT with her (we LOVE that from hubby).
> Get out of 'Mom & Dad' mode REGULARLY and be BEST FRIENDS and LOVERS...the kids WILL MOVE OUT someday.
> Send her flower for NO REASON.
> YOU plan something fun for the two of you (don't forget to make sure the kids have a sitter, if necessary).
> 
> How much fun would it be for YOU if YOU couldn't have fun with co-workers?
> -Do you have that report, Melvin?
> -Yes, I do John. Here it is.
> -Sheila, where are the numbers for Webco?
> -Marketing will have them ready after lunch.
> 
> NO-ONE wants to work in an atmosphere THAT cut-and-dried. Add to that the admittedly STRESSFUL environment of your wife's workplace, and it would REALLY be hellish.
> 
> Celebrate that your wife STILL likes to laugh and have fun! Now, GO GET SOME *WITH* HER!


Thanks a bunch. That is the odd part as we still do things like that and I buy her flowers regularly. It's just that she is exhausted during the week after each work day and I feel that he is seeing her at her best m-f and I am getting the leftover for 3 hours a day before we go to bed.


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## RClawson

I would not call their working relationship close. For the 100th time on this board...........I have worked in female dominated industries all my life until recently. I have numerous professional relationships with women. We have joked and laughed ( Sorry I am a clever guy). In some cases I even went to lunch with them.......................wait for it......................alone!

On occasion we talk on the phone. I still call them for advice at times because I trust their judgement. They sometimes still call me. I have never flirted with any of them nor they with me because we are friends and we respect each others marriages. My wife also knows if I ever tried anything she would be getting a phone call from them because they respect and love her as well.

OP lighten up. Get to know this guy and like it was stated before work on your game a bit. I think your wife will take note.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Think about it from HER perspective:

She probably really appreciates that you STILL LOVE HER even though you don't regularly get to see her at her best! You love her EVEN WHEN she's tired, stressed, frazzled, etc. She's lucky to have you, and I'll bet she knows it!

Think up something romantic/fun for the two of you in the next night or two. Maybe a bubble bath to relieve her stress before some awesome sex! Or a full-body massage before some awesome sex. See, right there, that wasn't hard.

Go kick yourself in the butt, knock off the pity-party and suspicion, and GET BUSY, Captain! You've got some FUN TIMES to start making with a certain First Mate (who'd probably look adorable in nothing but a sailor hat!)

Hey, what about going to bed a little early and WAKING UP a little early for some early morning sex, shower together, breakfast ALONE w/o the kids...anything before her day is ramped up, stressful, and crazy busy. Maybe not EVERY day, but maybe one weekday per week do ONE of these things with her! I bet you'll BOTH LOVE IT! (and you'd get 'first dibs' on her good humor)

*


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## 3Xnocharm

CaptainChaos said:


> Thanks a bunch. That is the odd part as we still do things like that and I buy her flowers regularly. It's just that she is exhausted during the week after each work day and I feel that he is seeing her at her best m-f and I am getting the leftover for 3 hours a day before we go to bed.


Well...did you feel this way when the colleagues were women? It doesnt sound like the dynamics of her job have changed, you are just viewing it differently since she now works with a man. I think as long as she remains wide open with you as she has been with their communication, that you dont need to be worried about this. It doesnt sound from your post like she ever tries to be secretive when they talk/text.


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## DjangoJr

There are a lot of ways things pan out... in the end either you trust your spouse or you don't. Folks cheat with coworkers like they do anyone else. You cant control other people. Only thing you can do trust the person who has committed to you. No way around it.


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## CaptainChaos

Thanks for all of the replies. It is greatly appreciated. Yes, there has never been any secrecy and she has always been open about everything. The dynamics of her job has not changed, merely the form of her colleague and that is what might be the ultimate reason for my caution. Right or not, I guess that I'm just not used to seeing her that chummy with another guy and it takes a bit of getting used to. SlowlyGettingWiser I appreciate your candor and you are right. She knows that I love her more than ever and has even told me as well as friends that no one could ever love her as much as I do. I guess that there is a level of comfort with me like you said in that she knows she does not have to be at her best around me during the week and can take comfort in the fact I understand when she takes cat naps after work. I was hoping to get smacked around on here and get put back into reality, so I do apprecaite everyone's input. It seems as though I am making an unfair assumption that something might happen because they are of the opposite sex and letting my imagination get the better of me. It's tough sometimes as there are polar opposite opinions regarding whether opposite sex friendships/colleagues can work.


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## thesunwillcomeout

CaptainChaos said:


> I have been married over 15 years, have children, and have never had any marriage issues. My wife works in a fairly stressful and demanding job. For most of our marriage, she has worked exclusively with other females due to the nature of what she does, until a few years ago when we had to relocate and her work partner happened to be male for the first time. The nature of her job requires a close working relationship with her colleague and a friendship has blossomed between them. He is roughly the same age, married, and has children as well. She has always become good friends with the previous female colleagues due to the nature of what they do, so it would only make sense a friendship would evolve based on prior experience as well as them having a number of common interests based on their occupation. I have met this man and his family and we have all been out together periodically without issue. He seems very nice. Although I do not believe that anything has happened between them on a physical level, I believe there is a fair amount of emotional involvement based on their circumstances. They text each other periodically outside of work, but not excessively. Nearly all of the time it is work related, but can have an air of playful banter between them on occasion. They will sometimes refer to each other as an ass, dude, ****, etc… while discussing their work. There has never been anything sexual whatsoever, other than this mild name calling and teasing back and forth. They do not call each other much outside of work and when they do, it is always work related. She has even suggested to me on occasion that I become friends with him as I would probably like him. There are no typical signs of an emotional/physical affair that I can see other than them being close friends due to their close work environment. They really appear to be colleagues who have simply become good friends because of how much they have in common. The problem I have is that she seems much more playful around him than with me. I see how they interact on occasion and the playful nature of their communication just seems too familiar and too comfortable for my liking (she laughs hysterically at his jokes). Is it normal to feel this way simply because I am a man seeing his wife have fun with another man and provide friendly attention between each other? I did confront her on one occasion and advised that I needed to understand the mechanics behind their friendship as I was feeling a bit jealous of how smitten she seems to be when she is around him. She simply said that I had nothing to worry about, he was like a brother to her, and that she is glad to have him as a friend. He makes the stressful work environment easier to cope with because of his crazy nature and understands the work related issues she has with the job. So… there is no evidence of anything that I have been able to find relative to a true physical or emotional affair, but my gut can’t seem to let go of this nagging feeling that there is more to the picture based solely on their playful interactions with each other. It really bothers me that they get along so well. And for the record, I have not found anything via text, e-mail, phone, facebook, etc… that would indicate there is a physical or emotional affair between them. Am I selfish and wrong to feel this way and is it merely me being insecure and over protective of my marriage? It’s just getting old with the kindergarten recess mentality with him and the back to reality home life with me… Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is eating me up inside.


I know there are posters here who would say to not get over-reactive. I can tell you, 100% this is exactly how my husbands EA began with a co-worker. It simmered and increased for over two years (beginning Fall of 2009 despite having worked together 5 years prior). Then in 12/11, 1/12, 2/12 they crossed over the line into sexual innuendo in text form. They were on the verge of a PA, but thankfully exposure happened before that happened. 

Trust your gut. 

My husband posted a couple days ago and if you asked him a year ago if he was in an affair he would have said "no" while he suppressed feelings of guilt for his (albeit limited) sexting with her as well as time spent with (secret) that he didn't tell me about. (A couple of lunches, a few runs, and so on.)

Why not ask your wife if she has lunch with him by herself? If you're not comfortable with that, ask her not to. Pay attention to what she doesn't say as much as what she does say. That will give you a read. 

T/c
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu

thesunwillcomeout said:


> I know there are posters here who would say to not get over-reactive. I can tell you, 100% this is exactly how my husbands EA began with a co-worker. It simmered and increased for over two years (beginning Fall of 2009 despite having worked together 5 years prior). Then in 12/11, 1/12, 2/12 they crossed over the line into sexual innuendo in text form. They were on the verge of a PA, but thankfully exposure happened before that happened.
> 
> Trust your gut.
> 
> My husband posted a couple days ago and if you asked him a year ago if he was in an affair he would have said "no" while he suppressed feelings of guilt for his (albeit limited) sexting with her as well as time spent with (secret) that he didn't tell me about. (A couple of lunches, a few runs, and so on.)
> 
> Why not ask your wife if she has lunch with him by herself? If you're not comfortable with that, ask her not to. Pay attention to what she doesn't say as much as what she does say. That will give you a read.
> 
> T/c
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do agree that a male coworker cannot be treated the same as a female coworker by your w. The fact is, they arent the same. Right? Youre wife is unlikely to feel physical, sexual and emotional attraction to her female coworkers, correct? And vice versa. Now, this is not to say its anything to worry about YET. But he cannot have the same amount of contact outside the office that a female coworker would. She has already spent her day with him and now she's filling her nights with him???? Thats likely more time than youre getting because of the nature of work. Its 10hrs a day- 5 days a week at his disposal.that is likely enough one on one time IMO. My h's affair started by talking about work too. then it morphed to family and sports and so on. Next thing you know, he's comparing me to her unfavorably in his head. It takes no time to slide down that slope. 

Just tell her to be aware adn maybe cut back on her interactions outside of work and no alone lunches. Its all about boundaires really. I do believe men and women can be friends but it must be with proper boundaries and involving each others spouse's. Any man I speak to my H has access to. He has access to all communication. He talks to them as well. I speak with their wives. It keeps everyone above board. Just the way it should be.


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## CaptainChaos

thesunwillcomeout said:


> I know there are posters here who would say to not get over-reactive. I can tell you, 100% this is exactly how my husbands EA began with a co-worker. It simmered and increased for over two years (beginning Fall of 2009 despite having worked together 5 years prior). Then in 12/11, 1/12, 2/12 they crossed over the line into sexual innuendo in text form. They were on the verge of a PA, but thankfully exposure happened before that happened.
> 
> Trust your gut.
> 
> My husband posted a couple days ago and if you asked him a year ago if he was in an affair he would have said "no" while he suppressed feelings of guilt for his (albeit limited) sexting with her as well as time spent with (secret) that he didn't tell me about. (A couple of lunches, a few runs, and so on.)
> 
> Why not ask your wife if she has lunch with him by herself? If you're not comfortable with that, ask her not to. Pay attention to what she doesn't say as much as what she does say. That will give you a read.
> 
> T/c
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for the help. That's the really odd part as everything seems to be in order. They have never had lunch/dinner alone based on what she has told me. When I first asked her about it she said they had agreed a while back that the lunch thing would not be acceptable unless they were in a group setting with other colleagues as well.


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## thesunwillcomeout

CaptainChaos said:


> Thanks for the help. That's the really odd part as everything seems to be in order. They have never had lunch/dinner alone based on what she has told me. When I first asked her about it she said they had agreed a while back that the lunch thing would not be acceptable unless they were in a group setting with other colleagues as well.


That's interesting. That means they've discussed boundaries. That means they are aware of the need for boundaries. That's good, especially if its adhered to. 

I will say I don't like your noticing the live interaction part. That's what initially tipped me off to my husband's EA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu

Also, take her up on her offer to befriend him!


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## thesunwillcomeout

canttrustu said:


> Also, take her up on her offer to befriend him!


Yes! His interaction with you will tell you a lot. My husband's AP was a friend. As she shifted into top dog with him she started to become very subtlety dismissive of me. The way he interacts with you will tell you a lot if you look for cues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CaptainChaos

thesunwillcomeout said:


> That's interesting. That means they've discussed boundaries. That means they are aware of the need for boundaries. That's good, especially if its adhered to.
> 
> I will say I don't like your noticing the live interaction part. That's what initially tipped me off to my husband's EA.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, and you are right, that is the only thing that has me troubled a bit is the fact they seem too playful together. Mind you, no physical interaction (touching), rather it's merely teasing and joking. Then again, judging from other opinions, it appears I might just need to loosen up a bit. I don't want it to sound like I do not want her to have fun. It's just weird for me to see her like that with another guy on a regular basis...


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## CaptainChaos

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Yes! His interaction with you will tell you a lot. My husband's AP was a friend. As she shifted into top dog with him she started to become very subtlety submissive of me. The way he interacts with you will tell you a lot if you look for cues.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, I have made strides towards that and it has worked out pretty well. It's also one of the things that made me think deeper into the two of them. For example, he and I went to a concert a while back on her suggestion. On my way to pick him up she texted him "Hey Turd, be safe and have fun", while she texted me "Be safe and have fun". I think way too much into these little things since she omitted the name calling in my text. By the same token, after a holiday get together, they gave each other a one armed hug in front of me to wish each other a Merry Christmas. He made sure to come shake my hand and wish me one as well though.


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## thesunwillcomeout

CaptainChaos said:


> Thanks, and you are right, that is the only thing that has me troubled a bit is the fact they seem too playful together. Mind you, no physical interaction (touching), rather it's merely teasing and joking. Then again, judging from other opinions, it appears I might just need to loosen up a bit. I don't want it to sound like I do not want her to have fun. It's just weird for me to see her like that with another guy on a regular basis...


That's the part that you should continue to watch "...the regular basis". Again, that's exactly how it was with my husband and AP. BUT he had an attraction. After going back through all the emails I can see how it developed with her. He dropped talking about me first, then she did with her husband. They started off as friends. Then the frogs in the cold water went to warm then to boiling. One of them needed to get out of the water. 

Your wife may just have a fond attachment as a co-worker to him now but as can happen with women, it can change. Your wife's co-worker on the other hand may already be in lust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saki

I don't blame you for having your radar up about this.

I would say the point to really become concerned is if secrecy ever begins. Passwords on cell phones, that sort of thing. Then you've got a huge red flag. EDIT actually then you have an EA

Also, I think it would be appropriate for someone in an intimate relationship to express their feelings regarding this issue to their spouse.

In other words, TELL HER EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL. YOu don't need to defend your feelings. Even if there is no evidence to back you up, you can and should state to her, exactly what you've stated in this thread.


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## thesunwillcomeout

CaptainChaos said:


> Thanks, I have made strides towards that and it has worked out pretty well. It's also one of the things that made me think deeper into the two of them. For example, he and I went to a concert a while back on her suggestion. On my way to pick him up she texted him "Hey Turd, be safe and have fun", while she texted me "Be safe and have fun". I think way too much into these little things since she omitted the name calling in my text. By the same token, after a holiday get together, they gave each other a one armed hug in front of me to wish each other a Merry Christmas. He made sure to come shake my hand and wish me one as well though.


I don't like it. Sorry, I don't. The txt more than anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thesunwillcomeout

Saki said:


> I don't blame you for having your radar up about this.
> 
> I would say the point to really become concerned is if secrecy ever begins. Passwords on cell phones, that sort of thing. Then you've got a huge red flag. EDIT actually then you have an EA
> 
> Also, I think it would be appropriate for someone in an intimate relationship to express their feelings regarding this issue to their spouse.
> 
> In other words, TELL HER EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL. YOu don't need to defend your feelings. Even if there is no evidence to back you up, you can and should state to her, exactly what you've stated in this thread.


Yes! (Though I will say I expressed concern to my husband and there was an imbalance of power in our relationship. He didn't take my concerns seriously. Just lip service. 

How does your wife relate to you? Do you both carry equal weight in the marriage? Connected? (We had lost a lot of ours through busy family life and stressors.)

Also side note I used the word "submissive" in re to OW -- I meant to write "dismissive" (of me). If only she had been submissive to me! Ha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CaptainChaos

thesunwillcomeout said:


> I don't like it. Sorry, I don't. The txt more than anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The fact that she texted him at all or the fact she was more playful with him in the text?


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## canttrustu

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Yes! (Though I will say I expressed concern to my husband and there was an imbalance of power in our relationship. He didn't take my concerns seriously. Just lip service.
> 
> How does your wife relate to you? Do you both carry equal weight in the marriage? Connected? (We had lost a lot of ours through busy family life and stressors.)
> 
> Also side note I used the word "submissive" in re to OW -- I meant to write "dismissive" (of me). If only she had been submissive to me! Ha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah, now that MAKES SENSE. OW was dismissive of me as well. At least she tried to be. If he wont give eye contact, avoids you when possible and keeps the conversation feeling awkward....look out. REALLY watch for the eye contact. BOth between he and YOU and between he and your wife. When tow people are attracted to each other they smile(unconsciously) and make eye contact often.


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## canttrustu

CaptainChaos said:


> The fact that she texted him at all or the fact she was more playful with him in the text?


Too many nick names, too much joking and flat and matter of fact with you....same as my H during his EA.


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## daisygirl 41

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Yes! His interaction with you will tell you a lot. My husband's AP was a friend. As she shifted into top dog with him she started to become very subtlety dismissive of me. The way he interacts with you will tell you a lot if you look for cues.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41

Trust your gut on this.
My H me mentioned a female co worker in passing to me once. He said how much like me she was and how we would really get on together.
3 months later they were having a deep EA and so began our year of hell.
Keep an eye for passwords, staying late, etc etc. just be on your guard a bit!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CaptainChaos

Thanks again to everyone for the input. It seems we have run the range of responses at this point. I was curious about the following though for those who feel there might be trouble on the horizon... We were recently off for nearly two weeks over the holidays, so we were able to spend quite a bit of quality time together. During this time, there were no texts, e-mails, or calls between them whatsoever. If this was developing into an EA or in an EA, wouldn't there have been some communication between the two of them due to the amount of down time they both had...


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## thesunwillcomeout

CaptainChaos said:


> The fact that she texted him at all or the fact she was more playful with him in the text?


The fact that she was more playful. She's giving him more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thesunwillcomeout

CaptainChaos said:


> Thanks again to everyone for the input. It seems we have run the range of responses at this point. I was curious about the following though for those who feel there might be trouble on the horizon... We were recently off for nearly two weeks over the holidays, so we were able to spend quite a bit of quality time together. During this time, there were no texts, e-mails, or calls between them whatsoever. If this was developing into an EA or in an EA, wouldn't there have been some communication between the two of them due to the amount of down time they both had...


No. In our case. During our family vacations they rarely communicated unless there was a work emergency. Rare. Two times maybe over the course of months! Except for right before DDay when she emailed a photograph of her (ugly) toes from the beach where shewas vacationing with her husband solo in the Caribbean. It was lost on him that she had emailed that photograph on Valentines day. (He didn't find the photo attractive. Honestly, neither would you. I've seen it. But she's not the creative type. Bwaaaa haaa haaa haaa!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CaptainChaos

thesunwillcomeout said:


> No. In our case. During our family vacations they rarely communicated unless there was a work emergency. Rare. Two times maybe over the course of months! Except for right before DDay when she emailed a photograph of her (ugly) toes from the beach where shewas vacationing with her husband solo in the Caribbean. It was lost on him that she had emailed that photograph on Valentines day. (He didn't find the photo attractive. Honestly, neither would you. I've seen it. But she's not the creative type. Bwaaaa haaa haaa haaa!)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



How did you finally get him to admit it or find out for sure there was an EA and nearly a PA?


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## Cubby

CaptainChaos, I think you're right to be concerned. You see the playfulness, the too-comfortable interactions, and I have to say after reading about all the blindsides on this forum, I'm impressed that you're aware enough to extrapolate this into the "what-ifs."

The little "pet names" (like "turd") is one of those signals that she might be open to liking him as more than a friend. Her wanting you to be his friend and do stuff with him tells me that's how she can spend more time with him. At this point, she doesn't want to have an affair with him but she does want to be with him more, which would mean doing things as couples, since she knows she can't go out with him alone.

So they both seem to have an attraction and get along great and they're now bonding at work and it looks like it'll escalate to social get-togethers for more bonding, even though both spouses will be present. 

Who knows if they'll take the next step? It sounds like your wife
has solid character, but even the best too often give in to the dopamine hits she's getting when she's with him. She might soon rationalize that "maybe you're not such a great husband or co-worker is my soulmate" or something like that. Remember, he's new and exciting, while you're just, well, since she's been with you for a while, she doesn't get the feel-good chemicals, the dopamine, when she's with you. That's what you feel when you're first dating someone. The exciting feeling. 

The guy on this forum who could probably give you the best advice is "entropy3000." He was in an emotional affair with a co-worker and is an expert on this subject. I'll send him a PM.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Cubby said:


> CaptainChaos, I think you're right to be concerned. You see the playfulness, the too-comfortable interactions, and I have to say after reading about all the blindsides on this forum, I'm impressed that you're aware enough to extrapolate this into the "what-ifs."
> 
> The little "pet names" (like "turd") is one of those signals that she might be open to liking him as more than a friend. Her wanting you to be his friend and do stuff with him tells me that's how she can spend more time with him. At this point, she doesn't want to have an affair with him but she does want to be with him more, which would mean doing things as couples, since she knows she can't go out with him alone.
> 
> So they both seem to have an attraction and get along great and they're now bonding at work and it looks like it'll escalate to social get-togethers for more bonding, even though both spouses will be present.
> 
> Who knows if they'll take the next step? It sounds like your wife
> has solid character, but even the best too often give in to the dopamine hits she's getting when she's with him. She might soon rationalize that "maybe you're not such a great husband or co-worker is my soulmate" or something like that. Remember, he's new and exciting, while you're just, well, since she's been with you for a while, she doesn't get the feel-good chemicals, the dopamine, when she's with you. That's what you feel when you're first dating someone. The exciting feeling.
> 
> The guy on this forum who could probably give you the best advice is "entropy3000." He was in an emotional affair with a co-worker and is an expert on this subject. I'll send him a PM.


Thank you very much for the help and the reference. I can't stress this enough even though I may sound a bit naive, but I have never known her to ever lie. She has more character than anyone I have ever met. Even to the point where she was given a traffic ticket that could have easily been avoided had she told a little white lie. I guess that is where I am ultimately torn between two places. Although there are signs that would point towards a possible problem, I believe that there is not a single cell in her that would allow anything to happen. Then I say to myself, if that were true, then why on earth does she appear to be so close to this other person and even be more playful at times. It just does not make sense having known her for all of these years...


----------



## The Middleman

CaptainChaos said:


> Thanks again to everyone for the input. It seems we have run the range of responses at this point. I was curious about the following though for those who feel there might be trouble on the horizon... We were recently off for nearly two weeks over the holidays, so we were able to spend quite a bit of quality time together. During this time, there were no texts, e-mails, or calls between them whatsoever. If this was developing into an EA or in an EA, wouldn't there have been some communication between the two of them due to the amount of down time they both had...


While I agree with you that the above is a very positive thing, and you don't have anything to worry about now, you can not ignore that the dynamics between male and female coworkers are different from Male/Male or Female/Female coworkers. As someone said earlier, the risk of your wife sleeping with another woman is extremely low while it might be higher with a male.

Please don't ignore those telling you that you have to watch this relationship closely. Please take some time and to read the coping with infidelity board and read how things can very easily and quickly go wrong in relationships with close friends and coworkers. None of us want to see you back here in six months with a thread titled: *"My wife is in a physical affair with her coworker"*

Note: Consider editing your opening posting. That block of texts is difficult to read and I'm sure people are not responding to this because of it.


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## Cubby

CaptainChaos said:


> Thank you very much for the help and the reference. I can't stress this enough even though I may sound a bit naive, but I have never known her to ever lie. She has more character than anyone I have ever met. Even to the point where she was given a traffic ticket that could have easily been avoided had she told a little white lie. I guess that is where I am ultimately torn between two places. Although there are signs that would point towards a possible problem, I believe that there is not a single cell in her that would allow anything to happen. Then I say to myself, if that were true, then why on earth does she appear to be so close to this other person and even be more playful at times. It just does not make sense having known her for all of these years...


It's just one of those things that can easily happen to good people. The dopamine, which I mentioned, is the same chemical drug addicts experience. If you read enough on this forum, especially the Coping with Infidelity section, the "fog" gets mentioned a lot. When a wayward spouse is in the fog, it's next to impossible to rationalize with him/her. All they care about is their next hit. And I'm afraid that's your problem. She's with him too much, and therefore, in danger of becoming addicted.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Cubby said:


> It's just one of those things that can easily happen to good people. The dopamine, which I mentioned, is the same chemical drug addicts experience. If you read enough on this forum, especially the Coping with Infidelity section, the "fog" gets mentioned a lot. When a wayward spouse is in the fog, it's next to impossible to rationalize with him/her. All they care about is their next hit. And I'm afraid that's your problem. She's with him too much, and therefore, in danger of becoming addicted.


Good point and guess therein lies my main issue if this pans out to be true. There is no way to remove either of them from their current situation. What the heck do people do in that situation?


----------



## Cubby

CaptainChaos, here's another thing you'll read over and over again from spending time in the Coping with Infidelity forum: "I never would have believed in a million years my wife would be capable of....." Or "My wife has always been very loving and a great mother and has always hated cheaters so I was shocked when I found out......" And so on.


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## Cubby

CaptainChaos said:


> Good point and guess therein lies my main issue if this pans out to be true. There is no way to remove either of them from their current situation. What the heck do people do in that situation?


To be honest, I'm not sure. She hasn't lied about anything and is really only guilty of getting along with this guy too well. I'd say you and your wife should read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. That's always highly recommended here. I'm waiting to see if Entropy3000 chimes in on this one.


----------



## canttrustu

CaptainChaos said:


> Good point and guess therein lies my main issue if this pans out to be true. There is no way to remove either of them from their current situation. What the heck do people do in that situation?


Buy her the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It will help her be very very aware of the possible pitfalls of the male/female coworker relationship and just how EASILY these things happen and how QUICKLY. You should have a read as well.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Cubby said:


> To be honest, I'm not sure. She hasn't lied about anything and is really only guilty of getting along with this guy too well. I'd say you and your wife should read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. That's always highly recommended here. I'm waiting to see if Entropy3000 chimes in on this one.


Thanks, and it's funny you mentioned that book as it is on it's way. I ordered it after reading all of the good reviews on amazon. Just another question if that is okay... It took me a while to really piece all of this together before I started to have it sink in. How would I know if this hasn't already developed from an EA into a PA and maybe back into an EA. Meaning, it happened already and I have only now discovered the entire mess on the tail end of it.


----------



## Cubby

CaptainChaos said:


> Thanks, and it's funny you mentioned that book as it is on it's way. I ordered it after reading all of the good reviews on amazon. Just another question if that is okay... It took me a while to really piece all of this together before I started to have it sink in. * How would I know if this hasn't already developed from an EA into a PA and maybe back into an EA. Meaning, it happened already and I have only now discovered the entire mess on the tail end of it*.


I don't remember if you mentioned this but is there a way for you to check the contents of text messages, emails, etc? Obviously there are texts and emails between them because they work together, but have you seen exactly what they're saying to each other? Maybe you need to QUIETLY dig a little deeper so you can at least rule out cheating, whether physically or emotionally.

Edit: I just want to be clear, based on what you said, I don't think there's been any physical cheating. But I think she does have a crush on him so it is possible something's been going on. You need to find out for sure and then set clear boundaries going forward.


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## The Middleman

CaptainChaos said:


> Good point and guess therein lies my main issue if this pans out to be true. There is no way to remove either of them from their current situation. What the heck do people do in that situation?


Here are some thoughts:


Educate your wife on affair dynamics with books like "Not Just Friends" and "Female Infidelity".
Set boundaries and expectations between you and her. Clear, verifiable and with her full agreement so she doesn't tell you that you have trust issues. Some boundaries could be:


No socializing outside the office, even with you there. They should not get close on a personal level. I can't stress this enough, trust me on this one.
She should not discuss your marriage with him and his marriage with her
They should not discuss personal problems with each other especially problems regarding you.
You should have unrestricted access to personal and work e-mail, phone and work computer, no questions asked. You dont have to check it constantly, but you must have access.
I'm sure that others here can add to the list but the book "Not Just Friends" is key.

Above all, she needs to understand the cost of messing this up. what it means to your marriage and your family.


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## Saki

The fact of the matter is, you really can't DO much about this.

So much of this is "the ball is in her court".

What can you control?

Well you can educate yourself to the warning signs.

You can have discussions with her regarding appropriate relationships with the opposite sex.

You can lay out some boundries. Make it clear, at least, what the consequences of cheating are. THrough educating yourself, you can visualize the steps between where she is and cheating, and try to put in boundries to head off those paths.

Right now, I'd say there's no way it's been EA to PA back to EA. THere's no reason to back to EA for one thing. But I don't see the necessary components for EA even. Again, what it comes down to is "is she hiding something from you?" As far as I can tell, she is not.

Now, this relationship could be damaging your marriage. If she's funneling energy towards him that should be going toward you. The grass is not greener on the other side, it's greener where you water it more. And the crappy part is, if that's the case, it's only going to make your marriage worse, making an affair more attractive to her.

So it seems to me, your best bet might be working on improving your marriage.

And I still maintain you should be having a conversation with her about your feelings regarding this subject!


----------



## CaptainChaos

Cubby said:


> I don't remember if you mentioned this but is there a way for you to check the contents of text messages, emails, etc? Obviously there are texts and emails between them because they work together, but have you seen exactly what they're saying to each other? Maybe you need to QUIETLY dig a little deeper so you can at least rule out cheating, whether physically or emotionally.
> 
> Edit: I just want to be clear, based on what you said, I don't think there's been any physical cheating. But I think she does have a crush on him so it is possible something's been going on. You need to find out for sure and then set clear boundaries going forward.


Ouch a crush... That hurts bigtime. I actually went back nearly a year via text and e-mail and it really is the same. Roughly 90% is business related with 10% being mild teasing/name calling, but always in the context of what started as a business issue. There has never been anything sexual, never a bad reference to either spouse, never any secret meeting requests. She did tell him about a surgery that she was having and she texted him when she found out when the surgery time was complaining that it was early in the morning. This would make sense to a certain extent as they are colleagues and he would need to know when she was going to be out. He is aware of personal issues of this nature that would be relative to her being out ill for an extended period of time. He did tell his wife about these occasions as well as she texted her as well wishing her a speedy recovery. His wife and my wife are friendly with each other. Here is an example of another text "I can't find the file for this person" to which he responded "did you check up your ass" to which she responded back "it smells like ass in here"... Other than periodic name calling, there has never been anything sexual at all...


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## Goldmember357

Listen to your gut

If this hurts you she should stop what she is doing. If she gets overly defensive well that is a good indication of her behavior.


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## CaptainChaos

Goldmember357 said:


> Listen to your gut
> 
> If this hurts you she should stop what she is doing. If she gets overly defensive well that is a good indication of her behavior.


That's the strange part as she is not overly defensive at all. In fact, she really looks at me like I'm a bit crazy for even thinking of such a thing.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Saki said:


> The fact of the matter is, you really can't DO much about this.
> 
> So much of this is "the ball is in her court".
> 
> What can you control?
> 
> Well you can educate yourself to the warning signs.
> 
> You can have discussions with her regarding appropriate relationships with the opposite sex.
> 
> You can lay out some boundries. Make it clear, at least, what the consequences of cheating are. THrough educating yourself, you can visualize the steps between where she is and cheating, and try to put in boundries to head off those paths.
> 
> Right now, I'd say there's no way it's been EA to PA back to EA. THere's no reason to back to EA for one thing. But I don't see the necessary components for EA even. Again, what it comes down to is "is she hiding something from you?" As far as I can tell, she is not.
> 
> Now, this relationship could be damaging your marriage. If she's funneling energy towards him that should be going toward you. The grass is not greener on the other side, it's greener where you water it more. And the crappy part is, if that's the case, it's only going to make your marriage worse, making an affair more attractive to her.
> 
> So it seems to me, your best bet might be working on improving your marriage.
> 
> And I still maintain you should be having a conversation with her about your feelings regarding this subject!


Thanks again. I have spoken with her a number of times and aired all of my concerns. She is not defensive at all and is willing to answer everything. She has always maintained that they work well together and that the levity he brings to the stressful work is welcome to help alleviate the stress. The catch is, neither are going anywhere. I can't remove her from the situation, it's bugging me, and it is making things worse on our marriage. A catch 22 that I am smack dab in the middle of.


----------



## The Middleman

I'm sorry but the more I read what you post, the more I think you need to ask her to tone it down. A few questions:

What do you do for a living (don't be too specific)
Do you consider your wife to be the person always taking the lead in the marriage?


----------



## CaptainChaos

The Middleman said:


> I'm sorry but the more I read what you post, the more I think you need to ask her to tone it down. A few questions:
> 
> What do you do for a living (don't be too specific)
> Do you consider your wife to be the person always taking the lead in the relationship?


Work for an insurance company.
Yes, based on working around her schedule though. My schedule is much more flexible than hers.


----------



## The Middleman

CaptainChaos said:


> Work for an insurance company.
> Yes, based on working around her schedule though. My schedule is much more flexible than hers.


Well as I said earlier, a long meaningful talk with your wife is in order. If she is not doing everything to put your mind at ease with this, there could be a problem. I think the "she really looks at me like I'm a bit crazy for even thinking of such a thing" is problematic in and of it self. She needs to take your feelings seriously.

Do look at the postings in "Coping With Infidelity" and see what actually can go wrong. I can recommend a few threads for you.


----------



## Latigo

CaptainChaos said:


> he responded "did you check up your ass" to which she responded back "it smells like ass in here"... Other than periodic name calling, there has never been anything sexual at all...



Sorry, that is WAY outta line!!! Both wife and co-worker would catch hell from me for that. I would get to know his wife if I were you. See what she knows and get a feel for what she makes of it. They seems way to comfortable together to me.


----------



## CaptainChaos

The Middleman said:


> Well as I said earlier, a long meaningful talk with your wife is in order. If she is not doing everything to put your mind at ease with this, there could be a problem. I think the "she really looks at me like I'm a bit crazy for even thinking of such a thing" is problematic in and of it self. She needs to take your feelings seriously.
> 
> Do look at the postings in "Coping With Infidelity" and see what actually can go wrong. I can recommend a few threads for you.


I have been combing through them as much as possible searching for similarities, but there always seems to be much more sexual innuendo in those that I have read so far... 
Any recommended threads would be greatly appreciated. 

I guess that my take on crazy attitude is that everything else in our relationship has been normal and she has not been acting strange in any other manner. I could understand why she would feel that way if there was truely nothing going on. If my wife accused me of cheating, I would be shocked as well wondering what the heck is she talking about. 

I do agree as well though that there has not been much empathy, but again, I have pawned that off as her being surprised that I would think such a thing rather than her being surprised that she has been caught. I would certainly like to think that as much as I have confronted her about it, there would be overt physical/facial indications that she would be lying considering I do not believe that she has ever lied to me in the past. I can't believe that someone who has never lied to me in the past could all of a sudden become a master at lying...


----------



## canttrustu

CaptainChaos said:


> Thanks again. I have spoken with her a number of times and aired all of my concerns. She is not defensive at all and is willing to answer everything. She has always maintained that they work well together and that the levity he brings to the stressful work is welcome to help alleviate the stress. The catch is, neither are going anywhere. I can't remove her from the situation, it's bugging me, and it is making things worse on our marriage. A catch 22 that I am smack dab in the middle of.


Can you request she not delete ANY texts between them until you are given access to them? As I've said before, when I communicate with male friends I do not delete without offering my H a viewing. He does the same. I say nothing that he would feel threatened by nor do any of my friends. And again, I also speak to their wives and my H is friends with them as well. NO male friends my H doesnt associate with. No interaction he's not privy to. It keeps everything in the light of day for everyone. 

Btw, looking at you like youre crazy when you bring it up is NOT a good thing. She should be saying something like "i understand and appreciate your concern. Im glad you care." and make some offer for concessions to make you more comfortable. IF you are her number 1 concern, as you should be, that is where her focus should be- in making you comfortable and her marriage solid.

Futhermore, what is the reason that thy have all of this outside of work communication? I know you say its all work but do you SEE it?


----------



## CaptainChaos

Latigo said:


> Sorry, that is WAY outta line!!! Both wife and co-worker would catch hell from me for that. I would get to know his wife if I were you. See what she knows and get a feel for what she makes of it. They seems way to comfortable together to me.



I have basically three people that I could confront. There is one other colleague who works closely with them as well that I am friendly with. He would have some inside info as he is with them all of the time as well. 

The other guys wife would certainly tell him if I asked her about the situation. 

She has a close friend who she speaks with periodically who might be a good person, but has been removed from the situation and would not have any inside info...


----------



## canttrustu

CaptainChaos said:


> I have been combing through them as much as possible searching for similarities, but there always seems to be much more sexual innuendo in those that I have read so far...
> Any recommended threads would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> I guess that my take on crazy attitude is that everything else in our relationship has been normal and she has not been acting strange in any other manner. I could understand why she would feel that way if there was truely nothing going on. If my wife accused me of cheating, I would be shocked as well wondering what the heck is she talking about.
> 
> I do agree as well though that there has not been much empathy, but again, I have pawned that off as her being surprised that I would think such a thing rather than her being surprised that she has been caught. I would certainly like to think that as much as I have confronted her about it, there would be overt physical/facial indications that she would be lying considering I do not believe that she has ever lied to me in the past. I can't believe that someone who has never lied to me in the past could all of a sudden become a master at lying...


There ws actually VERY little sexual innuendo for the first 6-8 months in my H's EA. They bonded over work, sports and talking about their families with each other. Which would all have been fine if they'd kept the boundaries they should have. Unfortunately, they did some of the things you speak of here. Pet names, alot of back and forth and way way too much time together. All day everyday. Then the secrets really got going and they were off to the races.


----------



## CaptainChaos

canttrustu said:


> There ws actually VERY little sexual innuendo for the first 6-8 months in my H's EA. They bonded over work, sports and talking about their families with each other. Which would all have been fine if they'd kept the boundaries they should have. Unfortunately, they did some of the things you speak of here. Pet names, alot of back and forth and way way too much time together. All day everyday. Then the secrets really got going and they were off to the races.


Can you give me an example or two of the secrets they were texting to each other or the evolution from "pet names" to "off to the races" so I know what to look for...

Thanks


----------



## CaptainChaos

canttrustu said:


> Can you request she not delete ANY texts between them until you are given access to them? As I've said before, when I communicate with male friends I do not delete without offering my H a viewing. He does the same. I say nothing that he would feel threatened by nor do any of my friends. And again, I also speak to their wives and my H is friends with them as well. NO male friends my H doesnt associate with. No interaction he's not privy to. It keeps everything in the light of day for everyone.
> 
> Btw, looking at you like youre crazy when you bring it up is NOT a good thing. She should be saying something like "i understand and appreciate your concern. Im glad you care." and make some offer for concessions to make you more comfortable. IF you are her number 1 concern, as you should be, that is where her focus should be- in making you comfortable and her marriage solid.
> 
> Futhermore, what is the reason that thy have all of this outside of work communication? I know you say its all work but do you SEE it?


Again, I'm going to sound naive, but I do not believe that she has ever deleted a text message before based on what I have seen. I reviewed them all prior to confronting her and would think she would have erased even those remaining that I have mentioned earlier. Why only erase some of them and leave others that might still be concerning to me...


----------



## canttrustu

CaptainChaos said:


> Can you give me an example or two of the secrets they were texting to each other or the evolution from "pet names" to "off to the races" so I know what to look for...
> 
> Thanks


yep, he called her "j-yo_ a combo of her first and last name. Ive since changed it to "J-HO". She called him "boywonder" and "mangenius" 

As far as secrets- well he kept HER a secret. I had NO idea how much time they were spending together. Worked EVERY single project together- intentionally. 10hrs a day. Sometimes more. And she emailed him saying "she ws so worried for him that she was in tears" an obvious play to tug at his heartstrings- successfully. he would watch football-a particular team(where she went to college) so he could go in and talk to her about it. So I was sitting thru 4 hrs of football so he had something to talk to his girlfriend about! vomit. they had lots of inside jokes. Lots of emoticons in their communications. And he spoke of her ALOT very suddenly. I liked his beard, she didnt - he shaved it. And when I asked him about her finally fc of his incessantly talking about her and way too much communication btwn them he said "you need a dr. You've become a jealous nutjob" and looked at me like I was, yep- crazy.


----------



## canttrustu

CaptainChaos said:


> Again, I'm going to sound naive, but I do not believe that she has ever deleted a text message before based on what I have seen. I reviewed them all prior to confronting her and would think she would have erased even those remaining that I have mentioned earlier. Why only erase some of them and leave others that might still be concerning to me...


well do you have access to her phone bill? You could count how many are on her phone as compared to how many are on the bill.....thats what I did. Guess what? They didnt match. Which means he kept some and delete some more inflammatory ones.


----------



## CaptainChaos

canttrustu said:


> yep, he called her "j-yo_ a combo of her first and last name. Ive since changed it to "J-HO". She called him "boywonder" and "mangenius"
> 
> As far as secrets- well he kept HER a secret. I had NO idea how much time they were spending together. Worked EVERY single project together- intentionally. 10hrs a day. Sometimes more. And she emailed him saying "she ws so worried for him that she was in tears" an obvious play to tug at his heartstrings- successfully. he would watch football-a particular team(where she went to college) so he could go in and talk to her about it. So I was sitting thru 4 hrs of football so he had something to talk to his girlfriend about! vomit. they had lots of inside jokes. Lots of emoticons in their communications. And he spoke of her ALOT very suddenly. I liked his beard, she didnt - he shaved it. And when I asked him about her finally fc of his incessantly talking about her and way too much communication btwn them he said "you need a dr. You've become a jealous nutjob" and looked at me like I was, yep- crazy.


Wow, that is quite a bit of effort for sure. I have not seen anything of that nature at all. In fact, there has not been any look my best attitude on getting ready for work. Most of the time it is a "Oh well, this will have to do" comment. No changes in appearance or new interests relative to things he likes.


----------



## CaptainChaos

canttrustu said:


> well do you have access to her phone bill? You could count how many are on her phone as compared to how many are on the bill.....thats what I did. Guess what? They didnt match. Which means he kept some and delete some more inflammatory ones.


Yep, and they all have matched up to this point.


----------



## canttrustu

CaptainChaos said:


> Yep, and they all have matched up to this point.


sounds good then. Still, trust your gut. There could truly be nothing there but a friendship. I do have male friends. I believe it possible. Truly. I just think it needs to be VERY above board. And if my H EVER said he was uncomfortable I would make adjustments to accommodate his feelings. 

My suggestion then is to keep your eyes open, communication with her going and keep him in your sights. Also, if you are uncomfortable with the amount of interaction they have your wife should make those adjustments willingly and freely. 

Also, the two of you should read NJF's together. I wish my H had read it BEFORE his EA. He learned alot about how these things are so incideous and happen so often and SO SO quickly. From zero to liftoff overnight. Really. So just keep paying attention. Check up on her here and there.And work hard on your relationship with her. On bonding with her. Watch for the signs mentioned to you here and move forward.

Best of luck.


----------



## thesunwillcomeout

CaptainChaos said:


> How did you finally get him to admit it or find out for sure there was an EA and nearly a PA?


First off, apologies for the (ugly) comment on my comment above. Mean-spirited asides don't help, even if objectively true. It's awful and makes me just as bad. Bleck--bad, angry TSWCO. 

Second, my first confrontation was after dinner -- the four of us. The energy between them was a dead giveaway, the looks smiles. She kept touching his forearm. I confronted post dinner. My husband said that though there was an attraction that was it. Friends, etc. 

A couple days later in the middle of the night I dug through his outbox for work email and found emails he had neglected to delete. I woke him up and confronted with those. He couldn't deny there was something then. 

In your case I love that your wife has never lied to you before. That's good. Of course things can change. In our case there were small lies (not a ton, but enough) throughout our dating and marriage that I had just let slide that really were building blocks for the development of his secret EA. 

Re knowing it was on the verge of PA, once he had read Not Just Friends and started working at transparency he shared a work app with me that would bring up all emails ever written between them. I read 'em all and read the worst from early Feb 2012 that was foreplay in word form to the max and forward looking to actualizing. (But apparent from the email it hadn't been actualized.)

Hope that helps?

I've gotten great advice here. Looked up txt and cell phone records. I retrieved txts prior to coming here from his iPhone--ones that hadn't been overwritten. That helped too. 

Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thesunwillcomeout

CaptainChaos said:


> Ouch a crush... That hurts bigtime. I actually went back nearly a year via text and e-mail and it really is the same. Roughly 90% is business related with 10% being mild teasing/name calling, but always in the context of what started as a business issue. There has never been anything sexual, never a bad reference to either spouse, never any secret meeting requests. She did tell him about a surgery that she was having and she texted him when she found out when the surgery time was complaining that it was early in the morning. This would make sense to a certain extent as they are colleagues and he would need to know when she was going to be out. He is aware of personal issues of this nature that would be relative to her being out ill for an extended period of time. He did tell his wife about these occasions as well as she texted her as well wishing her a speedy recovery. His wife and my wife are friendly with each other. Here is an example of another text "I can't find the file for this person" to which he responded "did you check up your ass" to which she responded back "it smells like ass in here"... Other than periodic name calling, there has never been anything sexual at all...


Again, I can't tell you how reminiscent that is. Mostly professional but emails that turned playful. I'd even say the percentages are the same until the end of 2010. That's when a few strictly personal emails began with no prior work reference. Mid 2009 playful txts started. Went in spurts. Picked up Fall of 2010. Consistent through Fall of 2011 where they became clearly focused on very flirty and no more spouse references. And then Jan/Feb 2012 the emails became overtly sexualized. (And not a ton.). They didn't discuss this stuff in person. All email, IM, txt. 

It started slowly....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soifon

My SO has a female friend that he works very closely with. He considers her one of his best friends. They regularly talk and text. Our families spend time together. They have "pet" names for each other. He calls her some degrading term and she calls him something bad in return. He calls me beautiful, love or sweet pea. Our two families are friends together, her and I will occasionally text each other, we all have dinner, my SO will go out for drinks with her boyfriend, etc. The two of them are in the army and regularly have weeks away together. While they are gone she will send group texts to me, my SO and her SO. One night he snuck out of barracks to come see me, when he was returning she caught him sneaking back in. She contacted me right away to see if he was with me and she would have busted him right then if he had been out with anyone else. 

The thing I'm trying to show is that they may be friends and connect with each other at work and outside of work. They have pet names for each other. But as you said, there is NEVER any sexual context to their communications and I have connected with her enough that she knows and respects me. There is one thread in the _coping with infidelity_ section where the OM ended the affair once he got to know the WW's husband (the BS). If they have any moral fiber and you become friends with him it will be bit harder for him to justify an affair.

I have full access to his phone and emails. He will even use my phone to text her if he needs to and he can't find his. Our families are friends together. I feel completely secure in their friendship because everything is so open and there really is nothing sexual between them and they have been friends for going on 4 years now. 

Does that mean I will let my guard down? Not at all but unless something changes in their behavior patterns I'm not worried and I don't think you should be at this point either. Discuss boundaries with her. Work to try to become friends with this guy and his wife. Create a friendship that involves all of you and just monitor the situation. Unless she starts holding her phone close without giving you access, or adds passwords you don't know. I would try to relax a bit. 

Oh and try to bring back some flirtation and fun to your marriage. Whatever you see her doing with him that you feel envious of is probably something you and her both feel is missing, so bring it back to try to nip her feeling like she has to go find that and more elsewhere.


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## jfv

Captain Chaos, It could very well be that nothing is going on between them at the moment. Emphasis on 'at the moment'.

The problem is because her friend is of the opposite sex and heterosexual, this can literally change overnight. Being how close they are both physically and emotionally it simply wouldn't take much. This is why you are right to be concerned so keep listening to your gut and keep a close eye on them. 

Request as much transparency as possible while things are relatively good in the relationship. This is the only way you will be able to detect the subtle changes that will acompany the begginning of inapropriate behavior. If they choose to go down that road you'll be able to detect it early and act. 

Never blindly trust, always verify and justify that trust. 

In the meantime make yourself as sexually appealing as you possibly can. This is just another way to keep your wife's attention where it should be. 

Keep coming to TAM. The perspective one gains here is invaluable.


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## diwali123

Can I ask what field your wife works in?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

CaptainChaos said:


> Thanks, I have made strides towards that and it has worked out pretty well. It's also one of the things that made me think deeper into the two of them. For example, he and I went to a concert a while back on her suggestion. On my way to pick him up she texted him "Hey Turd, be safe and have fun", while she texted me "Be safe and have fun". I think way too much into these little things since she omitted the name calling in my text. By the same token, after a holiday get together, they gave each other a one armed hug in front of me to wish each other a Merry Christmas. He made sure to come shake my hand and wish me one as well though.


Just catching up. Who talks like that? Sorry that kind of banter seems overly trashy to me. I suppose it can be cultural but if a message like that came to my wife no mattter how in jest I would take the dudes head off. Sorry I demand respect for my wife even if she would not. Period. Now realize I am ex Navy and can cuss and do this stuff with the best of them but I do not have that kind of banter with a woman. Especially a married woman. It is disrespectful to each other and to the other spouses. And no I do not want my wife calling me turd either. WTF? Moreover while I can cuss I would never call a man a turd either unless I wanted to get into a fight with him. In some cultures calling each other b!tch and so on is ... friendly. Just not the kind of people I would be around. Also of course no way this kind of chatter would be tolerated by any company I have worked for. It would be grabbed in the email system and I would be called into HR. I mean what type of job do they do? They are partners. Doing what exactly?

Again I am sure there is more to this thread but she should keep her work professional. That said I do joke around with my colleagues male and female but nothing like you descibe. 

The thing is that workplace EAs look very innocent until the bonding has reached critical mass. Then it is next to impossible to stop without heavy handed means like having to quit jobs and so on. 

I cannot tell from what has been posted so far but I would have her back way the heck off from this dude now whether there is anything obvious or not. He is not a female co-worker so the relationship IS different.

If I thought this was a full blown EA I would suggest you tell her she must quit her job. But is she can make the relationship more professional she can retore the balance. IF she refuses then you know there is more to this. She likely does not realize that there might be an issue.

It is NOT about trust. Marriage is about love and respect. Trust is a by-product. She should trust you. Do not discount your gut feelings. Most affairs are by people who do not intend to have affairs. The grow close to one another first as friends. Workplace EAs are the most common. Working closely with someone else in an intense environement naturally bonds them. It is a survival mechanism we humans have.


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## Entropy3000

CaptainChaos said:


> I have been combing through them as much as possible searching for similarities, but there always seems to be much more sexual innuendo in those that I have read so far...
> Any recommended threads would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> I guess that my take on crazy attitude is that everything else in our relationship has been normal and she has not been acting strange in any other manner. I could understand why she would feel that way if there was truely nothing going on. If my wife accused me of cheating, I would be shocked as well wondering what the heck is she talking about.
> 
> I do agree as well though that there has not been much empathy, but again, I have pawned that off as her being surprised that I would think such a thing rather than her being surprised that she has been caught. I would certainly like to think that as much as I have confronted her about it, there would be overt physical/facial indications that she would be lying considering I do not believe that she has ever lied to me in the past. I can't believe that someone who has never lied to me in the past could all of a sudden become a master at lying...


EAs are not usually sexual in nature. They can be of course, but the damage is not about sex. It is the bonding emotionally. The getting close to another person. This can then turn romantic. Too often spouses are concerned about just the sexual and the miss the real danger. An EA will suck the lif out of a marriage and the AP gets more and more of the attention adn emotional energy.

Looking for sexual inuendo is a good thing but it is not the only thing. I am not saying that what they are doing is an EA ... yet. However it is inappropraite IMO.

Inappropriate Behavior --> Unfaithfulness --> Cheating.

Also I thought I was just very close friends and did not realize it was an EA or even inappropriate until I went through withdrawal. The brain chemicals make it feel ok. So you can usually reason with someone in during the early inappropriate times ... like you have now but as it progresses, they will just bring it underground and rationalize it if you wait too long.

She needs to make it more professional. She is acting a tad like a school girl. Do they travel together? Do they do one on one lunches and / or dinners?

This is all about risk. If she can back it down a bit then she gets to stay marraied to you and keep her job. If the marriage is the most important thing then it is best to err on the side of protecting the marriage. 

If you knew that this situation had a 20% risk of destroying your marriage how concerned would you be? I am picking that number out of the air. But one could then say, hey no big deal this is likely not a a problem. What is acceptable risk? Catching potential EAs before they become an EA is the best defense against them. That does not mean one has to be paranoid but it does mean one has to be pragmatic.


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## lovelygirl

CaptainChaos said:


> That's the strange part as she is not overly defensive at all. In fact, she really looks at me like I'm a bit crazy for even thinking of such a thing.


All the cheating partners call their betrayed spouses "crazy, controlling, insecure, jealous..."
TO MAKE IT CLEAR, I'm not saying she's cheating but that's how it starts. 

Saying "you're crazy" is defensive per se.


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## canttrustu

lovelygirl said:


> All the cheating partners call their betrayed spouses "crazy, controlling, insecure, jealous..."
> TO MAKE IT CLEAR, I'm not saying she's cheating but that's how it starts.
> 
> Saying "you're crazy" is defensive per se.


Yep. This is what I told you a few pages back. My H called me a "jealous nutjob who needed a dr" this came as he was full blown in his EA. Its called gaslighting. Making it seem like YOU have the problem. Very common from a wayward. I mean seriously, do you think that we asked our spouses "are you involved with AP?" and they just started blabbering and confessing???? No, it doesnt happen like that.


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## m3fs

I had to sign up just to respond. Not sure where you're at now or if anyone else has said it but, your wife IS crossing the line. I won't overly nerd it for you but if you were to chart their correspondence based on quantity of interactions that contain the flirty stuff only - (mind you this also includes work emails that contain said flirtations) on a graph would it look like this:









Some ups, some downs, but on an incline. This is what it looks like when feelings are taking root.

Have there ever been other male friends over your 15 year marriage? No?

Time to reel this one in, brother. Tell her you are uncomfortable with the relationship and insist that it stays completely professional. Most importantly NOT because your trying to control her life (which from what I read is totally true) but because at best, SHE is being totally naive about the relationship. She must know by now how men think? Yes all men, including you. It's OK to say that without accusing her of being a cheater. If that doesn't work, then you absolutely have to lay it down to the dude because my friend, that guy knows EXACTLY what is up, pun intended. We are all animals and at our most basic level our brains are hard wired to the genitals. The difference is that as thoughts that spawn from the genitals make their way to the brain, they get deluded as they pass through 7000 layers (for women...far, far less for men) of rationalization and justification all wrapped up in these crazy things called "feelings" and feelings (if left unchecked) reach a tipping point where gravity naturally takes over. 

Look dude, she is your partner right? If she were walking into a tornado, or something that looked and sounded *remarkably* similar to a tornado, you would naturally do everything in your power to make sure she knew that whatever she thinks is in there is not in there, it's out here with you, bro.

Give us an update if you can. Thanks for sharing what must be/have been an impossibly difficult situation for you.


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