# Sex and Intimacy



## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

I see many threads and posts that refer to a "sexless" marriage, and I wonder what constitutes a sexless marriage? 

Is it when sex drives are mismatched? 
Is it when there hasn't been any SEX in x amount of time?
Is it when there is NO intimacy any more? 
Is it when there is only certain sexual acts, and not others

If you're in a sexless marriage, are there still intimate things you do with your spouse? 

If you're a guy, and are unhappy with the frequency of your sex life, are there other ways your wife could meet your emotional needs? Would meeting more of your emotional needs, without sex, increase your happiness with the current frequency of sex? 

What do you meets your emotional needs? Can you achieve any intimacy without sex?

Thanks for listening, and hopefully participating. I'm eager to understand the husbands PoV better.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

A sexless marriage is technically one in which intercourse occurs less than 10 times in a year. There can be intimacy of other kinds, of course (e.g., emotional, cuddling, etc.).


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> A sexless marriage is technically one in which intercourse occurs less than 10 times in a year. There can be intimacy of other kinds, of course (e.g., emotional, cuddling, etc.).


Thanks!! 

Do men NEED sex to fulfill their emotional or intimacy needs?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

MysticSoul said:


> Thanks!!
> 
> Do men NEED sex to fulfill their emotional or intimacy needs?


I would say most do, but there are always exceptions. The level of desire or need will vary person to person - some are high sex drive (HD) and some are low drive (LD). May threads in these forums are about mismatched sex drives and how to deal with the problem.


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I would say most do, but there are always exceptions. The level of desire or need will vary person to person - some are high sex drive (HD) and some are low drive (LD). May threads in these forums are about mismatched sex drives and how to deal with the problem.


You might also notice that the sex drives werent always mismatched.

One person in the relationship decided that sex/intimacy wasnt a priority anymore and its up to the other person to fix it. :scratchhead:


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Janky said:


> You might also notice that the sex drives werent always mismatched.
> 
> One person in the relationship decided that sex/intimacy wasnt a priority anymore and its up to the other person to fix it. :scratchhead:


In many cases they were always mismatched, but that was ignored, or, it was far less obvious in the early stages of a new relationship when even LD people often become temporarily higher drive until the newness (and hormones) wear off, usually within 2 years.

Anyway, unless the cause of the mismatch is a _treatable _physical/medical problem or one of psychology/communication-type relationship issues, it often cannot be fixed because some people are innately HD or LD.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Also add that when one marital partner might intentionally be working from a position of playing games with the other partner, greatly to either exert some form of favorable control over their spouse themselves, or to their spouse's sexual habits; largely to please their very own sexual desires, or the lack thereof.*


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Janky said:


> One person in the relationship decided that sex/intimacy wasnt a priority anymore and its up to the other person to fix it. :scratchhead:


Maybe I'm young and inexperienced, but when sex isn't a priority to me, and my spouse doesn't communicate that to me. It's not really like I'm waiting for him to "fix" it. I have no idea there is even a problem to begin with. 

-------------------------------------------------------------

As a LD wife, I became very concerned after reading on TAM all these sexless threads, that my husband was unhappy. That I was pushing him away with my LD. That I'd come home one day and my husband would serve me with divorce papers because we're not having sex 2-3 times a week. I'm a newcomer to the forum, so correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like most sexless marriage threads advocate "give me more sex or gtfo"

Luckily for me, my husband and I sat down and many frank conversations about this topic. Turns out for my husband sex is only a part of being intimate, it isn't the whole kit-n-caboodle. 

So I wonder if its the same for other spouses. Do your needs get met in other avenues with your spouse? Or does sexless also mean affection-less? If your needs were being met in other avenues, would you still face it like "I need more sex or we're divorcing?"


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## heli-pilot hubby (Oct 8, 2013)

MysticSoul said:


> Maybe I'm young and inexperienced, but when sex isn't a priority to me, and my spouse doesn't communicate that to me. It's not really like I'm waiting for him to "fix" it. I have no idea there is even a problem to begin with.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Mystic, you need to read a book called "The five love languages." This will shed a lot of light on what you're experiencing. For me, touch ie Sex with my partner is my love language. If she were to initiate that with me, and take an active interest in that with me I would interpret that to mean that she loves me. For others it is service. Example, if your husband does the dishes, vacuums the floor, puts the kids to bed, takes out the trash, washes your car, mows the lawn, etc. and you think, "he does that because he loves me," then service would be your language. Imagine someone being deaf and mute. At some point someone lightly stroked their arm, and they think, "so this is what someone does when they love me." Now, you meet and get to know this person. You spend a lot of time with this person on a daily basis. One day the mood strikes you and you say, "You know what? I love you!" Do you think this person heard you? Probably not because they're deaf. But if you lightly stroked their arm, it would be telling them that. That's what this book is about. Good luck.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You would benefit from reading the five love languages. Sex and physical touch are a very common top love language for many men, but not all. Trust me, if it were his top priority and you were neglecting it then you would be putting your marriage at risk. But if it's not his top priority, well then it's not a problem really. Whatever his love language is, physical touch, words of affirmation, gifts, services, etc... if you neglect it, it's a problem. Oh, and to me it sounds like you married a fellow LD, which is good. Compatibility is more important than the raw numbers.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

After reading threads, I saw some recommendations of the 5 Love Languages. Both my husband and I took the test. 

(ETA in order from highest to lowest)

His results were:
Acts of Service
Receiving Gifts
Quality Time
Physical Touch
Words of Affirmation

Were as my results were:
Words of Affirmation
Physical Touch
Quality Time
Acts of Service
Receiving Gifts

We're basically the exact opposite. LOL!!!


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

My average with my wife was once a month, if that. From observing my behavior I noticed an increase of resentment, detachment, and borderline hatred toward her. This behavior would manifest about two weeks after sex and would increase as time went on. Maybe once a year my wife would actually enjoy sex, all other times was duty sex to calm me down. I am yet to have sex with her where I felt she was actually in the room with me.

It's been sometime since our last intimate moment so the following will make sense. Emotionally we fit well. I get nothing from her I could not get from a friend. So in short she's a friend, not a lover nor a wife.

She wants me to be more open and dangles sex as a reward. I loath that behavior and hate her for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Generally speaking, men need sex to feel intimate and women need to feel intimate before sex. As I said, generally. There are always exceptions but that is how we are. If I treat my wife like crap, she cannot feel like being intimate with me and if I don't make love with her I do not feel loved. Without sex and intimacy we are nothing more than room mates. 

We are also opposite in love languages. My primary ones are quality time and physical touch and hers are words of affirmation and acts of service. 

Maybe it is because of my love languages, but I really need the closeness of sex to feel loved. Not only that, I really need to take time at it at least once a week. I love a long evening of kissing, touching, foreplay, cuddling, giving her a couple of orgasms orally, then making love with her.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Yes, Yes, Yes and No....it would be wonderful if my WS had come to me at any time, even recently, and said let's spend some time doing this or that to just focus on us....what would you like me to do?....

It's too late for that. I'm beyond being afraid to ask. Besides it has never been the case in 18 yrs anyway. Sex is the pinnacle of intimacy for me and it has been more than 5 months without. A desert is my bedroom.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> My average with my wife was once a month, if that. From observing my behavior I noticed an increase of resentment, detachment, and borderline hatred toward her. This behavior would manifest about two weeks after sex and would increase as time went on. Maybe once a year my wife would actually enjoy sex, all other times was duty sex to calm me down. I am yet to have sex with her where I felt she was actually in the room with me.
> 
> It's been sometime since our last intimate moment so the following will make sense. Emotionally we fit well. I get nothing from her I could not get from a friend. So in short she's a friend, not a lover nor a wife.
> 
> ...


I don't get sex as a reward device but I feel almost EXACTLY how cloak feels. I've laid out my expectations and told her I'm not staying in a sexless marriage. But the resentment and borderline hate consumes you. It's scary. You find yourself annoyed with her even after a seemingly good day or week. You also tend to inflate everything else tgat used to be a small annoyance into something bigger in your head. I'm sometimes mad for no reason . 

My case is unique because I'm the extravert and she is introverted, or avoids serious talks. So I'm basically talking to a wall that refuses to care and or respond.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MysticSoul said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> As a LD wife, I became very concerned after reading on TAM all these sexless threads, that my husband was unhappy. That I was pushing him away with my LD. That I'd come home one day and my husband would serve me with divorce papers because we're not having sex 2-3 times a week. I'm a newcomer to the forum, so correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like most sexless marriage threads advocate "give me more sex or gtfo"
> 
> Luckily for me, my husband and I sat down and many frank conversations about this topic. Turns out for my husband sex is only a part of being intimate, it isn't the whole kit-n-caboodle.


TAM can be a frightening place, OP. On the one hand, it can make us more aware of different issues in marriage in general, but otoh, it can put fears in our heads that are not justified in our particular marriages.

I was so pleased to hear that you and your dh sat down and had some transparent talks about this subject. It sounds like it put your mind at ease. I agree with you that it must be horrible to be served divorce papers out of the blue. I can't even imagine.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

A sexless marriage lacks intimacy if one of the partners desires sex and the other neglects his/her needs. There may be other forms of "intimacy" in a sexless marriage, but only if both partners are complacent with not having sex.

A sexless marriage where one partner has a need for sex and is ignored, is absolute neglect.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

In my eyes that would be like an abusive spouse that neglects and abuses his/her significant other all throughout the day, then at night before bed he/she lays a flower on his/her pillow.

Kind of hard to be "intimate" with someone neglecting your other intimate needs.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

MysticSoul said:


> We're basically the exact opposite. LOL!!!


You know what they say -Opposites Attract

I do not think that is true regarding sex though. Neither of you place physical touch as a top priority. 

Your husband is lower drive than you. In my opinion women cope with that situation slightly better than men do. 

It is good that you two communicate about this.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

MysticSoul said:


> So I wonder if its the same for other spouses. Do your needs get met in other avenues with your spouse? Or does sexless also mean affection-less? If your needs were being met in other avenues, would you still face it like "I need more sex or we're divorcing?"


Just as a general observation, men don't seem to have the quantity and quality of emotional outlets that women do.

Usually we're not nearly as close to our parents as adults. My wife talks to her mother on the phone almost every evening. My father and I can only stand each other for about ten minutes at a time once in a awhile. 

I've got friends, but I don't bare my soul to them the way my wife bares her soul to hers. Ditto for brothers and sisters. We get along, but I don't discuss life's darkest fears and deepest secrets with them.

I'm not saying this because I think it's applicable to your husband or yourself. I'm just trying to give context to some of the bitterness you see on TAM. When a man is rejected by the one person he feels it's okay to be vulnerable around, he can feel pretty much alone.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> Just as a general observation, men don't seem to have the quantity and quality of emotional outlets that women do.
> 
> Usually we're not nearly as close to our parents as adults. My wife talks to her mother on the phone almost every evening. My father and I can only stand each other for about ten minutes at a time once in a awhile.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I never thought of it like that. You are correct in that I (at least) have intense, and deep conversations with my best friends. Most likely more deep than my husband does with his friends. On the flip side, my husband and I also have soul-baring deep conversations with each other. 

Do most other men not have these conversations with their wives? Is there also a breakdown of communication between partners?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Not sure if this helps at all but one of the worst consequences of my wife serially withholding sex is that I have finally arrived at the point where I can't even imagine her as a sexual being. She may as well be a man or one of my kids. I might find just about any other woman on earth at least potentially sexually interesting but the woman I'm supposed to adore now represents sex and intimacy about as much as a coffee table. You don't hate a coffee table or necessarily want to throw it out but you also don't dream about having a future with one, going on romantic vacations with one, etc. No matter how dutiful or dedicated you are, it's hard to really care much about what a coffee table wants or feels. So, the culmination of withholding sex long enough is that two people end up dehumanizing each other. Sex, intimacy, and nurturing are huge motivators for a guy. They help him explain to himself why he works hard, why he comes home, why he works out, why he takes great care of his wife. Take those three away and you end up with a resentful hamster in a wheel, running, but not for any particular reason, breathing, but for no particular reason, working, for no particular purpose, hanging with someone you really can't, trust more out of obligation, pity, or habit than love.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Intimacy is a gestalt concept, one of these tricky critters where the total is far more than the sum of the parts:

- physical but non sexual like cuddling 
- sex in various forms
- verbal, visual, and other sensory interactions
- mental, how you think about your partner based on other aspects of the relationship
- emotional, how you feel about it all

They're all parts of the puzzle and you need them all. That's why you can't simply "have sex" or "cuddle" or "talk" and be intimate.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

MysticSoul said:


> Do most other men not have these conversations with their wives? Is there also a breakdown of communication between partners?


I do not know but poor communication does seem to be a very common problem. I do not know if it is truly lack of communication or just our miss-matched sexuality that is the cause of most problems we see around here though.


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> I'm just trying to give context to some of the bitterness you see on TAM. When a man is rejected by the one person he feels it's okay to be vulnerable around, he can feel pretty much alone.



This ^^^^^ is exactly how I feel


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

romantic_guy said:


> *"Generally speaking, men need sex to feel intimate and women need to feel intimate before sex."*
> 
> :iagree:


 *This, totally!*


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

MysticSoul said:


> Thanks!!
> 
> Do men NEED sex to fulfill their emotional or intimacy needs?


A man can have sex without love

But rarely feel love without sex

as simple as that

55


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

MysticSoul said:


> Maybe I'm young and inexperienced, but when sex isn't a priority to me, and my spouse doesn't communicate that to me. It's not really like I'm waiting for him to "fix" it. I have no idea there is even a problem to begin with.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Yes the 'definition' of a sexless marriage is sex less than 10 times a year. However its just a number.
If a couple are BOTH happy with sex every 2 months, ie 6 times a year, I don't think that constitutes a sexless marriage.

Sex cam be anything that involves touching/carressing the genitals; be it by hand or mouth. 
There are women on here with medical problems that either prohibits or inhibits penetrative vaginal sex but who are happy to (and WANT to) give pleasure to their husbands in other sexual ways. And vice versa.

For me, a sexless marriage = no sexual interaction atall. No kissing, PIV, HJ, BJ, oral on her etc. 

When I met my wife she was medium to low drive virgin. I thought, hoped that we would grow together sexually, enjoy each others bodies, explore things together and that she would realise the importance of sex to a) me and b) marriage.

To this day (marriage 17years) we have kissed (tongues) twice, she has never given me oral etc. She does not like sex and will only do it when SHE is wants it (maybe every 2 months). If I want and she doesn't 'why should I do something I don't want to do?'.

I have been rejected and hurt so much over the years that now * I * am no longer interested in her. She has killed all desire I had for her.
Sex is how men connect..its how we show our love and its how we want to be shown that WE are loved. Without it we feel alone and rejected.

No sex, no intimacy = sexless marriage.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

romantic_guy said:


> Generally speaking, men need sex to feel intimate and women need to feel intimate before sex. As I said, generally. There are always exceptions but that is how we are. If I treat my wife like crap, she cannot feel like being intimate with me and if I don't make love with her I do not feel loved. Without sex and intimacy we are nothing more than room mates.
> 
> We are also opposite in love languages. My primary ones are quality time and physical touch and hers are words of affirmation and acts of service.
> 
> Maybe it is because of my love languages, but I really need the closeness of sex to feel loved. Not only that, I really need to take time at it at least once a week. I love a long evening of kissing, touching, foreplay, cuddling, giving her a couple of orgasms orally, then making love with her.


You sound like a wonderful lover! :smthumbup:

My husband is not a typical male. He needs emotional closeness to want sex. He would also prefer that I do not refer to sex in crass terms; he sees married sex as lovemaking. I can be angry at my husband and still have great sex. I am great at compartmentalizing. 

I swear that I must have been male in a past life.


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