# Revelation! Ah Ha moment!



## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

A lot of posters here, including myself, are unhappy with the frequency of sex and affection we are getting/giving to/from our spouses. In the low frequency situation, we see this as not normal, and something that needs fixed.

It hit me this morning, after being on this forum for quite a while now, that maybe those with the higher frequency is NOT indeed the normal. Maybe the lower frequency encounters are the normal.

The wife and I might try (I say try because it doesn't really work) to have sex two or three times a year. The longest we went between encounters was around three years. Mostly because I was bored and not interestedd.

So, is the expectation of frequent sex abnormal?


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

I think this will start a debate over what is "normal" and what is not. Even how to define normal because it is different between cultures, society etc.

But the real issue is what works for YOU is what you should be striving for as "normal".

Two to three times a year does not work for me. However, my frequency is not much higher right now because I am losing interest in my LD wife and her excuses. I am losing my emotional connection to her and our marriage.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ain't no such thing as normal when it comes to sexuality.

No two people or sex life or couple are the same


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I'll go out on a limb and put myself in the line of fire.

I don't think it is normal for human being to have a sex drive so weak or non existent that they only desire sex a few times a year. Further, I think there is something wrong with a person who has no desire for sex for a few years.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

There's "average" for the population, and average for supposedly healthy relationships, but "normal" derives from these as in the "normal distribution" or Bell curve.

If you are happy having sex a few times a year, then that's a* personal normal*, and if your spouse/SO is also happy with that, that's a *relationship normal*. If you're not happy with it, it could just be your average number, not your desired number. If your normal numbers differ considerably, there is an abnormal discrepancy in sexual desire and satisfaction.

The population average is about 1x to maybe 3x a week for the majority (a couple of standard deviations). Some are happy with this, and some are not. The outliers have more or less than this range and they may or not be happy with that.

My personal normal is daily. Less than 3x or 4x and week and I'm no longer feeling normal or happy. With my ex, I was very unhappy for many, many years, and that ain't normal!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I don't think it is normal for human being to have a sex drive so weak or non existent that they only desire sex a few times a year. Further, I think there is something wrong with a person who has no desire for sex for a few years.


Some people ARE asexual. It's a real thing.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Married but Happy said:


> There's "average" for the population, and average for supposedly healthy relationships, but "normal" derives from these as in the "normal distribution" or Bell curve.
> 
> If you are happy having sex a few times a year, then that's a* personal normal*, and if your spouse/SO is also happy with that, that's a *relationship normal*. If you're not happy with it, it could just be your average number, not your desired number. If your normal numbers differ considerably, there is an abnormal discrepancy in sexual desire and satisfaction.
> 
> ...


*The population average is about 1x to maybe 3x a week for the majority (a couple of standard deviations). Some are happy with this, and some are not. The outliers have more or less than this range and they may or not be happy with that.
* Well, I knew it! HE is abnormal! lol I'd be fine w/1-3 times a week.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How many times do you guys do it JustaGirl?


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

dormant said:


> A lot of posters here, including myself, are unhappy with the frequency of sex and affection we are getting/giving to/from our spouses. In the low frequency situation, we see this as not normal, and something that needs fixed.
> 
> It hit me this morning, after being on this forum for quite a while now, that maybe those with the higher frequency is NOT indeed the normal. Maybe the lower frequency encounters are the normal.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by normal? If you mean average, I'd say that's well below the average. I'd even say, depending on ages, just from a biological drive to reproduce perspective it wouldn't be "normal".

But if you mean could 2 people be happy at that level, sure. If that's your drive then that's your drive. It is what it is. You lucked out finding a partner who is also happy with that level though. She is happy, right?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Some people ARE asexual. It's a real thing.


So is bipolar.  doesn't make it normal and my personal opinion is that it isn't healthy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

dormant said:


> A lot of posters here, *including myself, are unhappy with the frequency of sex and affection we are getting/giving to/from our spouses.* In the low frequency situation, we see this as not normal, and something that needs fixed.
> 
> It hit me this morning, after being on this forum for quite a while now, that maybe those with the higher frequency is NOT indeed the normal. Maybe the lower frequency encounters are the normal.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> So is bipolar.  doesn't make it normal and my personal opinion is that it isn't healthy.


So Anon, even though there are many millions of bi-polar people, none of them are "normal"?


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> How many times do you guys do it JustaGirl?


20-25 times a week.....yes, a week!

Twice a day (morning and night) then it could be 5-10 times on the weekends!!

Be careful what you wish for, huh?
My 1st marriage was sexless.....


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> So Anon, even though there are many millions of bi-polar people, none of them are "normal"?


No, it's called a disorder because it's NOT normal.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If an aberration or anomaly or mutation occurs regularly and can be counted on and expected and analyzed, how is it not "normal"?


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Having twins is not "normal". It doesn't mean it's freakish or unheard of, but it's not what usually happens.

All the words you used there pretty much mean a variation from the norm. 

I'm not using "normal" in a judgmental way, just as in what is the more likely. If you roll a six sided dice that had red on five sides and blue on one side, the red would be the normal outcome. Blue would be not normal.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

JustAGirl said:


> 20-25 times a week.....yes, a week!
> 
> Twice a day (morning and night) then it could be 5-10 times on the weekends!!
> 
> ...


Are both of you terminally unemployed? :rofl:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Something being less likely does not make it abnormal.

Variations are normal.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> If an aberration or anomaly or mutation occurs regularly and can be counted on and expected and analyzed, how is it not "normal"?


They're not normal because they do not exhibit the expected range of behaviors that are typical for the vast majority of people.

While they may not be _normal_, their condition is not necessarily _bad_, either. Some such "disorders" can actually convey benefits to the individual, or to society from things these people do or create.

Many of the advances in technology, science, and the arts have come from people who are not "normal" in some way - many of them have been mildy autistic or bipolar, for example. Not that most of us would want to live with them, though.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Not being typical does not equal abnormal it just makes it less likely to occur.

The word normal is problematic here.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Abnormal means falling outside of set standard deviations on a bell curve. 










In my opinion sex once every couple years would likely be way outside of the normal standard deviations. So would sex 20 times a week. I don't know the actual numbers, but my guess is that something like 2x a month up to 5 times a week would all fall into the green "normal". Maybe a little more or less. The definition of "sexless" of less than 10 times a year would be the first transition to the green area on the graph. Or perhaps the first transition to light blue.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I am not normal in a lot of ways. I never thought of this as a bad thing. Being normal is boring. Being normal is being average. I'm not sure why people get upset about being abnormal.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

If my expectation of a loving,affectionate,sexually intimate marriage is abnormal then I don't want to be normal. People who only want to be sexually intimate with their spouse once or twice a year can keep their normal to themselves.
 

Being serious though, it's unfair to try and classify complicated things like sex drive into simple classes of normal vs abnormal.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Are all variations normal? A cow born with 5 legs?A person born with a tail? What percentage of occurrence makes something normal or abnormal?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There's always going to be a problem when one group of people declares themselves normal and anyone outside themselves as abnormal. Bell curves being what they are, are describing data, not human beings as individuals. When you drill down to an individual level, the person on any point of any bell curve is normal because he/she is part of the group being studied. Notice that the scale itself mentions "standard deviations from the norm" not "abnormal".

It is the fully loaded word normal that is causing the problem here.

In any case...Anon disagrees, we've had this talk before...but asexuality and gray sexuality are normal human variations of hormone profiles and behaviors.


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## GIM003 (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm going to follow some previous posters out on a limb and suggest that for this topic (and many topics one might find within the Sex in Marriage area) the normal/abnormal axis is not helpful. It does seem to ignite passionate debates on semantics and social science studies which may not always be helpful to the original poster.

A better basis for discussion is probably happy/unhappy. Does the current situation make you happy or unhappy? Does it make your partner happy or unhappy?

If you must introduce healthy/unhealthy then do so in the context of is this situation healthy or unhealthy for your relationship.

End of sermon, now here is my 2 cents: sex 1 -3 times a year would make me unhappy and would not be healthy in the long-term for our relationship


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

AP,
Maybe I would say that: 

There is something wrong with the *connection* between two people in a monogamous LTR when sexual frequency becomes so low that it begins to cause severe distress to the HD person. 

It's a huge power play to be able to sexually monopolize someone without having sex with them. 

That said, when a man acts like a woman he can't really be all that surprised when he gets shutdown in bed. 

I generally don't post on threads started by men which open up with 'I just need to vent'. 

Turns out that whining is the ultimate contraceptive device. 





Anon Pink said:


> I'll go out on a limb and put myself in the line of fire.
> 
> I don't think it is normal for human being to have a sex drive so weak or non existent that they only desire sex a few times a year. Further, I think there is something wrong with a person who has no desire for sex for a few years.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Agreed. The word has connotations that may not be intended. Especially abnormal. Usual maybe is a better word?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

WOM,
The bell curve itself is a really useful tool for understanding the likelihood of finding a partner you are sexually compatible with.

That said, I've seen a bunch of posts recently that were disturbing. One guy stated that it was normal for frequency to drop significantly after getting married. 

Maybe that's true. If so, that's kind of sad. It means the reward for vowing to forsake all others, is that your spouse begins to forsake you. 

That was absolutely not my experience. 





WorkingOnMe said:


> Abnormal means falling outside of set standard deviations on a bell curve.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> So Anon, even though there are many millions of bi-polar people, none of them are "normal"?


Bell curve normal? No. Healthy? No. Common occurance within the mentally ill community? Yes.

You also have to ask what is healthy, healthier and healthiest? I think the healthiest people are those with significant and emotionally bonded relationships. If asexual people can maintain a significant emotionally bonded relationship with another asexual person then that would be heathy. But the incidence of the true asexual is pretty damn low so the likelihood of two compatible asexual people forming and emotional attachment is also pretty low.


View attachment 23410


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> *Turns out that whining is the ultimate contraceptive device.*



Truth!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Anon, many asexual and gray sexual people DO maintain healthy relationships. This is the part where I think in your mind, you are thinking asexual = repressed or PTSD type problems. But some asexual/gray sexual people are "just that way", not due to exterior events or circumstances. There is a lot of info about this and the asexual community are getting pissed off that sexual people always assume there is "something wrong" with them.

When I say asexual, I'm talking about the natural state of it.

I'm not talking about someone who has had trauma and now doesn't want to be sexual.

I'm not talking about a wife who has long term resentment against her husband and now doesn't want to have sex with him.

I'm not talking about ILYBNILWY.

I'm not talking about people with a physical dysfunction that causes sex to be undesirable (like someone avoiding sex due to PE or inability to O).

I'm talking about those people who really are just "that way", which if we had to guess, we might conclude they were born with a different hormonal profile than average or some other physical issue...but even if it is not physical, it can still be NORMAL and congenital.



The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org

I've linked this many times before, I do wish you (anon) would actually take a peek at the FAQ's page.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Gray sexual. Is that like, sex with the elderly? :rofl:


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Some people ARE asexual. It's a real thing.


Yep, agree totally. Those of you enjoying loads of great sex, enjoy it and count your blessings. A lot of us on here are lucky to get it once a year. Been over a year for us.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Charlie, I don't know if your W is asexual or not, but that's part of the point of visibility and acceptance of asexuality.

If people who are asexual can become self-aware of this and then not partner with people who are sexual, then a lot of problems can be avoided. This will not happen over night but as we move toward the future, more asexual people will be comfortable and visible and able to have relationships that are successful.

From the website:

Q. Can asexuals have successful romantic relationships with sexuals?

A. Yes. The tension between the sexual partner's expectations and the asexual partner's needs can be very difficult to work with in some relationships, *and many asexuals consider success so unlikely that they prefer not to date sexuals at all*, but successful mixed relationships do exist. Some of these relationships are completely sexless; in others, the asexual partner "compromises" by having sex occasionally under certain circumstances; in others, both partners experiment with pseudosexual behavior and find things that work for both of them. Like with any other compatibility issue in a relationship, the key is to establish excellent communication, so that both partners can know and respect the other's situation.

(note from me):

An asexual must be self-aware to understand the bolded part above. 

We're getting there. Acceptance and visibility are key.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Normal for me is everyday. I want to share my love and connect physically everyday with the woman I chose to be with forever. I want affirmation that we are a unit, a couple, our souls bonded, as much as humanly possible. 

If I look back on my deathbed and say, "Man, I wish I wouldn't have had sex so much with my wife, I wasted a lot of time when I could have watched tv, browsed the marriage sex forums, or just had a hobby all by myself" then maybe I was wrong. I just don't believe I could ever feel that way. I am an extremely loyal and bonding person. I can imagine on my deathbed saying to my wife, "I wish I could have spent every waking moment with you, inside you, smelling you, feeling you, and loving you."

I won't regret it. Living life without regret (on something I can easily control) is my goal, and sex each day is not only normal but something I'd hate if it couldn't be that way. Life is just too short.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Normal for me is everyday. I want to share my love and connect physically everyday with the woman I chose to be with forever. I want affirmation that we are a unit, a couple, our souls bonded, as much as humanly possible.
> 
> If I look back on my deathbed and say, "Man, I wish I wouldn't have had sex so much with my wife, I wasted a lot of time when I could have watched tv, browsed the marriage sex forums, or just had a hobby all by myself" then maybe I was wrong. However, I can imagine on my deathbed saying to my wife, "I wish I could have spent every waking moment with you, inside you, smelling you, feeling you, and loving you."
> 
> I won't regret it. Living life without regret (on something I can easily control) is my goal, and sexy each day is not only normal but something I'd hate if it couldn't be that way. Life is just too short.


Every day?! That shht ain't normal!!


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

JustAGirl said:


> 20-25 times a week.....yes, a week!
> 
> Twice a day (morning and night) then it could be 5-10 times on the weekends!!
> 
> ...


Wow! That's awesome!


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Normal for me is everyday. I want to share my love and connect physically everyday with the woman I chose to be with forever. I want affirmation that we are a unit, a couple, our souls bonded, as much as humanly possible.
> 
> If I look back on my deathbed and say, "Man, I wish I wouldn't have had sex so much with my wife, I wasted a lot of time when I could have watched tv, browsed the marriage sex forums, or just had a hobby all by myself" then maybe I was wrong. However, I can imagine on my deathbed saying to my wife, "I wish I could have spent every waking moment with you, inside you, smelling you, feeling you, and loving you."
> 
> I won't regret it. Living life without regret (on something I can easily control) is my goal, and sexy each day is not only normal but something I'd hate if it couldn't be that way. Life is just too short.



That's beautiful! Very refreshing to hear!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

dormant said:


> The wife and I might try (I say try because it doesn't really work) to have sex two or three times a year. The longest we went between encounters was around three years. Mostly because I was bored and not interestedd.
> 
> So, is the expectation of frequent sex abnormal?


Here is my take on this.. it doesn't matter if you and your wife fall outside of any of these bell curves.. IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THIS LITTLE OF ROMPING...lets say 2 A-sexuals got together, that would be a fine match.....sure beats a High driver and one of those hooking up ..that would only end in a mountain of suffering /resentment on both sides/ porn addiction, temptation on steriods.../ cheating & divorce...

There are things about me & my H that others might find a little strange ...but if it makes us ...it doesn't really matter...it's between us...that's what makes people compatible...it's like this saying...



However if you want to kill your spouse and are constantly fantasizing of something over the fence ......this is undue suffering and you will need to find a mutual workable compromise for you to remain together without resentment ...

Me personally....I couldn't handle someone devoid of desire...at least the willingness to want to go there.... they'd want to kill me as touchy /feely as I am....some things just matter too much to some of us.... 

I wonder.. (and maybe missed this).. so you only have sex a few times a year.. so what about masturbation... how often do you...does she...going it alone? ...and you both prefer it remain this way?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org
> 
> I've linked this many times before, I do wish you (anon) would actually take a peek at the FAQ's page.


NO! I refuse to learn anything that might contradict my opinion!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

JustAGirl said:


> *20-25 times a week.....yes, a week!*


*My Lord! If I got to do it that much, my pupils would look something like Little Orphan Annie's!*










*But it would sure as hell be a lot of fun to try to go blind that way!
*


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

11 Historical Geniuses and Their Possible Mental Disorders | Mental Floss


There are many people who were insane or close to it that made great contributions to our society...

The gifted people aren't all that normal...

There is hope for me after all...


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

The only time I care to use the word "normal" is in reference to myself and my own drive. For me, my normal is very frequent sex so when I don't get it I feel grumpy, distracted, unsatisfied and lose connection with a partner. 
If there are other factors to consider such as children, financial connection, friendship etc in a relationship then I can (and did) waive my need for "normal". But this is not the solution because it leads to a very sad slippery slope of disengagement and loss of emotional connection.

Having had the amazing opportunity to be back out in the dating world post divorce I finally had the courage and maturity to say that my "normal" is a reasonably high level of both quality and quantity of sex. After accepting that normal means nothing unless it is in the context of what I personally need and want, then I found a man that was sexually compatible. Normal for us is probably above what the average chart would say is normal but it is irrelevant to anyone outside our relationship because we have what makes us both happy.

Normal can only be relevant to the individual. Compatibility is far more important.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Something being less likely does not make it abnormal.
> 
> Variations are normal.


That's why we create ranges. In anthropometrics, for example, we have the 5% woman who is a petite 5 ft tall woman weighing in at 105-107 lb. 

Three times a year is way out of spec, and to a great extent 20-25 a week is also way out of spec. Whether it's not normal, that's another issue.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Thunder7 said:


> Gray sexual. Is that like, sex with the elderly? :rofl:


Hey, I resemble that remark :iagree:


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Ok well normal or not 3 times a year is extremely low and I think most people would have a problem with that.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

People are confusing the concept of "normal behavior" and applying statistics to analyze sexual relationships for populations via sampling techniques. Based on numerous studies, the average ranges from 1 to 3 times a week. I'm assuming that is the range that comes from applying a confidence level for estimating the mean. The low end of the bell curve would have to be set at 0, so I'm guessing that the actual data may not even fit a normal distribution. Despite that, you can still determine with a level of confidence what is typical. 

That is completely different than determining whether it is normal for someone to desire having sex 0, 3, 5 or 25 times in a week. I don't think you can make that determination, so it would be a value judgement. Therefore, try to pair up with someone with a similar sex drive, or have the respect and love for your spouse to come up with a reasonable compromise.


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## bestwife (May 10, 2014)

3 times per year? You must kidding. Why are you not interested in your wife? So you are in marriage with someone who is not sexually attractive for you?

Sounds weird for me


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> So Anon, even though there are many millions of bi-polar people, none of them are "normal"?


The very definition of a mental disorder is that its abnormal.

There's no debate here.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> Something being less likely does not make it abnormal.
> 
> Variations are normal.


Oops. I should have kept on reading....This I agree with.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

bestwife said:


> 3 times per year? You must kidding. Why are you not interested in your wife? So you are in marriage with someone who is not sexually attractive for you?
> 
> Sounds weird for me


Ding Ding Ding ..... That is exactly it. And I don't think she is interested in me either. Mostly just roommates .


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Thunder7 said:


> Are both of you terminally unemployed? :rofl:


No, guess I have two full time jobs!


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Congrats to the dudes out there that can do it everyday.

I couldn't even do that in my youth!

I mean it, man.

"Get up
Get on up
Get up
Get on up
Stay on the scene
Get on up
Like a sex machine
Get on up"

james brown


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