# Wait it out or leave - with poll



## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

My wife and I have drifted apart a bit over the last year or so with the routine of marriage, we're into our 5th year. I haven't done a good job of keeping things fresh and she has been a poor communicator. We screwed things up.

Typical catalyst, we got into a bad fight, and she decided she wanted out, but that was just a heat of the moment statement. Here is how it breaks down, and then we'll do a poll. Sound good?

Week 1: I lost my temper over one of my pet peeves, that was my mistake, so I said something really mean. We yell, end of story.

Week 2-3: She gets distant and I don't even pick up on it. Finally I realize something is eating her, and I apologize. Stupid me for not having my antenna up. Along the way she dumps on me for the stupidest stuff, trying to pick fights. This will be important for later.

Week 4: I can tell apology not accepted, so I push the issue. We get into a fight about what is bothering us. It all gets put out on the table. She threatens leaving, but as you see later she back tracks. This woman has a long history of exaggerating, so take what you see here as a grain of salt.

Week 5: She switches from picking fights to being cordial, but distant. I can't make up with her because she avoids spending any time with me (different rooms, going to bed first). I try to go all out for mother's day, but it falls flat.

Week 6: She wants some space for a couple days, still cordial, I give it to her. I get nothing positive in return. After a few days I address the issue directly with a small ultimatum, she must start spending time with me so we can heal, otherwise this isn't going to work. She admits that she does not want divorce, but is not sure if the good feelings will return. She refuses counseling.

Week 7: At this point there really isn't fighting at all. Things that would set her off before, like a tiny accident, are no longer triggering put downs. We're watching TV together and talking, but it is somewhat superficial and light-hearted. Throughout all this she has maybe approached me with a peck or two on the lips, but avoids every advance that I make (hold hands, hug, smooch). I alert her family that I need help, this doesn't feel right.

Week 8: She assures her family she wants to work this out, but still continues to avoid my small advances. I think its hard to restore love without touch or intimate statements, so you can see why I'm worried. If I save that I love her, she'll just shrug it off.

This is a little personal, but throughout this process she has obliged with almost weekly sex or equivalent favor. I suppose that counts for something.

Should I:
1. Wait it out as long as there is week-to-week improvement
2. Counseling ultimatum to see if a professional will help
3. Divorce, this is emotional abuse and cannot be tolerated


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Any kids involved?


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Yes there are 3. 1 is hers. They are young. Sorry should have mentioned that.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

waynejoey said:


> My wife and I have drifted apart a bit over the last year or so with the routine of marriage, we're into our 5th year. I haven't done a good job of keeping things fresh and she has been a poor communicator. We screwed things up.
> 
> Typical catalyst, we got into a bad fight, and she decided she wanted out, but that was just a heat of the moment statement. Here is how it breaks down, and then we'll do a poll. Sound good?
> 
> ...


There are a few warning signs here that she may well have checked out completely, she is on the line.
You have not explained what you meant by you haven't kept it fresh, do you mean you have neglected her during the 5 years of marriage, you do your own thing and leave her alone alot?
Is this what the row was about? What was the row about? 
Even the way you talk about her you appear to be quite dismissive (she exaggerates a lot you say). Maybe she has been trying to get through to you but you are not listening cause it suits you not to?
You may well have a walk away wife on your hands. There are many men, who once they get the wife, put much more effort into their work, their sports and friends than their marriage and then seem shocked when the wife has reached her limit and wants to leave. I bet she has been telling you a long time ago that she needed more of your time and attention but you refused to listen and blame her for being a bad communicator. 
There is still hope but little will tip her over the edge, she is just planning her exit perhaps.

Incidentally, you do not sound very committed to your marriage, even your title smacks of lack of commitment to this woman. Maybe you should leave and let her get a man who is worthy of her? Marriage is hard work, sounds like you are not marriage material or do not have the maturity to actually be a leader in your marriage. How old are you?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

If you're looking for simple opinions... I always advise counseling for answers, before making a decision. 

You might also take a peek at what a marriage really looks like also... A Brief Summary of
Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

Best

BTW, it's a bit telling that you posted in this particular forum.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

I can assure you I'm working my butt off.

I haven't been neglecting her for 5 years, this is really probably all in the last year or two. She lost her job and we decided for her to stay at home with the kids, so I've had to work more hours. During this time of working more hours and the kids being hard to manage at a young age, it put a big strain on both of us. I try not to make her feel like she isn't contributing, but she invents this school of thought where I think all the money is mine, which is not true at all. 

I don't buy anything for myself, and I try to set a realistic budget for her to think about. When we talk about it she gets mad and storms away. She just wants to swipe until its all gone.

You are dead on that I haven't listened properly during that period of struggle and I let my emotions get the best of me, we both did. There is plenty of blame to pass around, but I'm focusing on improving myself, I can't change her.

She does exaggerate, that is not dismissive. Her family and mine have both warned me about it, so no need to debate that. Even her family has pointed out her reckless mood swings and apologized to me for it. I still love her, flaws and all. We all have problems and I will make sure my side of the street is clean.

Does that help?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I would urge you to re read those basic concepts. You cannot change your wife, but you can make sure your side of the street is clean. Honestly, though your wife has a lot of work to do, so do you. Your entire 1st post was set up to lay most of the responsibility on your wife. And your assurance that you work your butt off is a bit defensive. If I were you I would get his needs her needs and read it with the thought of what you can do better rather than what she ought to be doing. I would also read up on love busters because you are doing a ton of those. I know, she is to. But you have 3 children. It's time to work on yourself, and if she eventual I comes along that's great. If not, at least your a better man.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

I'm a man, so I like to fix things. I've made drastic changes very quickly, all positive, all around meeting the love busters and the points you sent over. I'm a really hard worker, so that isn't an issue for me.

The kryptonite for me is the waiting. If there is 0 progress week to week going forward, I don't know if I can hold it together. Its eating away at me, which may cause my progress to break down.

Its hard to be a champion for your wife and kids if you're depressed. I've never been in this situation before, so its very new for me.

Thanks for the advice though, I'm going to pray for strength and patience!


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Well if you have absolutely nothing to improve and your wife can not appreciate a perfect husband, then I guess you should just do what you're wanting us to tell you to do and go ahead and leave her. Sorry we couldn't help.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

For the record, all of your posts have contained love busters. I can point them out if you would like.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

1. It took you a week to notice your wife was distant.

2. It took you a week to apologize after losing your temper.

3. You ran to her family to tell on her.

4. You don't make a budget by yourself - the two of you sit down and work one out together. That way both people buy in.

Try changing your relationship dynamic from one of parent/child to equals.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

I'm not communicating well

It took you a week to notice your wife was distant. - Yes I screwed up, and this is now fixed. Message heard loud and clear.

It took you a week to apologize after losing your temper. - Yes I screwed up again. For the record she has done really mean things to me and has not apologized not once. Throughout our entire relationship she apologized to me once for yelling at me and that was before we got married. Very one way.

You ran to her family to tell on her. - Is that a love buster?

You don't make a budget by yourself - On several occasions I tried to sit down with her. She shuts down "i don't want to talk about it, whatever, yea whatever its fine". We CANNOT talk about money. It just infuriates her.

Cut me some slack?


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

If you are comfortable with it, you can invite her to join the forum also, as it could be very helpful to both of you.
If not, what would be her version of events? What things would she say are making her so very unhappy? My guess would be that her version of events would be quite different than yours. Please tell us how you believe she would list out the events if she was telling the story. 

The way I read it, all of this started from you losing your temper that one time. Now 8 weeks later it might be over. My H loses his temper sometimes too. Most of us say things in arguments we don't mean. It doesn't mean we want to end our marriage, or that we are going to peremnantly check out. We apologize, and put it behind us as best as possible, and move on with life. 

So what else is there that is causing a mom of 3 to be willing to walk away? Yeah, her side of this would be very helpful here... 
I feel like we are missing some big chunks of what had caused her to totally give up.


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

waynejoey said:


> I'm a man, so I like to fix things. I've made drastic changes very quickly, all positive, all around meeting the love busters and the points you sent over. I'm a really hard worker, so that isn't an issue for me.
> 
> The kryptonite for me is the waiting. If there is 0 progress week to week going forward, I don't know if I can hold it together. Its eating away at me, which may cause my progress to break down.
> 
> ...


I was in the same situation and did the same things....none of them worked. I tried to change myself to fit what I thought she wanted and to what I thought she was telling me, all I ended up doing was losing myself. Since that time I have regained who I once was, but have caught her multiple times texting with other men and just recently found out she's been having an affair for over a year. If she really has completely checked out, there isn't much you can do. The only advice I can give you is read "No More Mr. Nice Guy", it did help me realize a lot when I was at my lowest. You need to bring yourself back to being you, if that makes sense. Talk to her about going to counseling, if she's willing to go it just might help. Years ago I pushed for counseling, I could tell she didn't want to be there, and after 3 sessions she said she didn't want to do it anymore. If she does agree to counseling but doesn't really seem into it, or wanting to do the exercises after the first couple sessions, it's a waste of time.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Okay, the way I'm seeing it, she lost her job. The source of your conflict seems to be over money. Is is possible she deep down feels she doesn't have the right to talk about a budget or how the money is spent because she's not contributing? You're working a lot to bring in enough money and working too much can definitely affect a marriage. My ex wanted to stop working and enjoy his military retirement but it wasn't enough to pay all our bills even with my job, so I asked him to get a job making $500 a month or to agree to cut back on some expenses. He took a job but that's where he hooked up with OW.

So I am hearing that you are trying to involve her in the money, but you think she just wants to keep spending and is in denial about what the loss of her job has done to your family income. I agree with @Spicy when she says "I feel like we are missing some big chunks of what had caused her to totally give up." I'm not so sure your temper flaring is all there is to the story.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

@MyEnd - I'm reluctant to push counseling because it has a negative connotation to her and negativity really does not work well with her. For example if I have a crappy day at work, and I text her and say "work sucks today, argh so frustrated". Instead of a "honey, sorry work sucked, lets do a shot of tequila tonight and watch a movie!", its more like a "ugh stop complaining, so annoying". Very very unsupportive personality, even before things fell apart. I did read a book like "No more mr. nice guy". It was EXTREMELY helpful. I made a lot of wrong turns, but that shouldn't mean I'll never be forgiven.
@Spicy - good suggestions, but she will think this is cheesey and dumb.

Her side of the story:
All I care about is sex. Not true, but I am a guy, and I'm very attracted to her, so yea I want to do it. My drive kicks up about every 5 days like clock work.

I'm controlling all the money. Not true, she doesn't want to pay the bills (and doesn't know how) so I handle it all, and I'm the only earner. I gave her access to every single account we have, user names, passwords, balances, processes. I went through all the trouble of providing access, she never even looked at it. She buys stuff whenever she wants, no questions asked. I never buy things, because I came into the marriage with all my stuff (clothes, hobby toys, whatever). I do my best to warn her when we're overspending, but she flips out on me and says she is sick of hearing it.

I'm not compassionate. True and I fixed this / continuing to be better at it. She probably thinks I'm faking it, but in my heart I really have achieved a new level of maturity and compassion. It took an event like this to bring the emotion out of me. That was my flaw and I'll take ownership of it.

I let the kids play too rough. True and I fixed this. We have been parenting the kids exactly the same for like the last couple weeks and it is going super good. I think the kids are responding well to it too.

Sometimes I don't clean up all my pee. True and I have a plan to stay on top of this. She pees on things too, in my defense, just in different spots. You guys are laughing right? I'm not making this up.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

waynejoey said:


> Should I:
> 1. Wait it out as long as there is week-to-week improvement
> 2. Counseling ultimatum to see if a professional will help
> 3. Divorce, this is emotional abuse and cannot be tolerated


Well, since you have kids I would advice trying a little longer. Sounds like you are navigating without a compass. You can't control her, but you can control yourself and in return you may spark her interest. Go to Amazon and buy The Married Man's Sex Primer (your compass). Read it, let it envelop you and perform it. Work on the MAP for a few weeks and see if things change a little. 

If it doesn't then maybe she is too far checked out, but I'd encourage you to give it a chance. If nothing else, it will prepare you well for your next relationship.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

these are some places where things went wrong:



waynejoey said:


> Week 1: I lost my temper over one of my pet peeves, that was my mistake, so I said something really mean. We yell, end of story.


Obviously that was not the end of the story. 
you blow it off as if she is going to get over it in 5 seconds. You don't value her opinions, you dismiss them. You uesed your best weapon against her and she is fighting back with her best. This is a no holds barred knock down, Only you think it is a tiff. she knows it is Armageddon. 



waynejoey said:


> We CANNOT talk about money. It just infuriates her.


The second intimacy is off limits in your relationship? She is infuriated AND has no control? This is not going to work. Which is harder, talking about money or talking about sex? You ain't going nowhere on sex, until you can talk money. If you need a mediator, get one.


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## Rah (Jun 19, 2010)

I think she's checked out man. There is no good reason for her to refuse counseling unless she doesn't want to talk about something in front of a person who could possibly see through her. If she loves you then this is actually an easy problem to fix if everybody is willing. Matter of fact love is at its best when both people are reuniting after crisis even stronger than they were before. The commitment to one another, the sex, the bonding is great!

The sex might just be to keep the tension down. My ex was sexing me right out the door and it kept me in the dark for a while as to her true feelings about our relationship because I too assumed that we were sleeping with each other so we've got something. I learned that women can have sex with an absolute flatline on their emotional meter. It can be just a job in a marriage.

If you don't see improvement or an effort on her part to and she continues to reject your efforts for an unreasonable amount of time, it may be time to separate to give her some heal time alone and you some heal time alone(no dating others). This separation will rekindle her love or tell you if you don't have something worth saving. Once you are out, if that is what she truly wants she will not come back. You will have your answer. 

Either way, be vigilant but don't take yourself too seriously. Women cheat or lose interest for a myriad of reasons some real some not. Some your fault some not. Of course it will always be your fault from their perspective, but you should know that it may not be your fault, even if they say so. Keep caring and doing your best.

Good luck!


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Good points Rah. We do have a date this weekend, but she cut the agenda in half! I'm going to take that as progress.

If I'm getting small wins week to week I think I'll be able to stick it out. I wish it wasn't that hard though, this seems like an unreasonable time table to me, but you guys are telling me it is acceptable.

Thanks for the help!


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Well, you got your cheerleader, so we're probably done here.

However, you do realize that it takes more than "a couple of weeks" to erase damage from years, right?


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I would say give it some more time, and be patient. Keep up all of the positive improvements you have made, and keep adding more. She is most likely waiting to see if your changes are peremnant or if they are as a result of her getting upset at you.

We all want instant gratification, and we also want quick resolution to problems. Reality is, time is the true gauge. Words and adjustments are only as good as the long term actions that follow them. 2 months is a drop in the bucket.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

waynejoey said:


> Yes there are 3. 1 is hers. They are young. Sorry should have mentioned that.


With kids involved, I think the big D has to be the last possible resort.


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