# After EA, have I lost all rights to property/privacy?



## harlisondavidly (Jul 4, 2011)

I have a question about my need or desire for privacy after having an emotional affair. I seem to have a hard time resolving these questions myself. I'm not good at thinking about emotional topics. 

My story is that I did have an emotional affair with an ex-girlfriend while being married. The twist is that it was one-sided. I had romantic/sexual desires for her but she had none for me. Her interest in our "friendship" obviously had some benefits for her but they were more emotional for a source of support and friendship for things she was going through the past several years. When the ex-girlfriend met a guy at church who she eventually started dating, our "friendship" abruptly ended.

I know what I did is wrong. I cheated my wife and kids of time they deserved. So I'm not here to make excuses.

So one problem my wife and I have is that she insists on having access to my email, my iPhone, etc. Understandable. Does that also give her the right to erase stuff from my computer that she doesn't like? She has done this several times. Or if I have a text conversation with a friend and use a term she doesn't like to describe something she did, should I expect her to throw that in my face? That did happen last week. So I locked my phone with a password. The next morning my phone was missing. She didn't indicate she had anything to do with it even when I asked her directly about it. She did say she thought the phone was outside somewhere (I had once last another iPhone in the snow a couple years back). I looked for it for days. Yesterday I decided to rototill my garden plot to get rid of the weeks. Guess what I found? My iPhone buried in about 6 inches of dirt. She still doesn't accept responsibility.

She also has "forced" me to disable my Facebook account, I closed my MySpace account (never used it), gave her access to all email accounts, etc. But my main beef is that I feel she doesn't respect "my" property. She's deleted emails, Facebook messages, music from my computer, etc. She even threw away a CD given to me by some lady friends (3 sisters) I used to work with 15 years ago. She felt threatened by my connection with them, or one of them in particular.

Last week when we had a very tough spell after I told my wife I was going back to see a counselor. She has a problem with this counselor and told me that I should NOT come home if I kept my appt. A couple days later I did decide I needed to stay somewhere else. It got to the point where she told me she wants a divorce (this has happened before). So during this time, since we were going to end it anyway, she decided to ask me some very personal sexual questions (regarding fantasies and masturbation) about my EA. I had not been willing to discuss this with her before. She suggested that because we were getting a divorce she needed to know this information so she could find some closure. Against my normal reluctance, I gave in and did reveal some info she wanted. Wow, what a mistake. That night she got so violent and angry, she threatened to leave, she told the kids while I was on the phone that daddy doesn't love them any more and he is making them and her move out of the house so he can have sex with another woman in our house. She said she'd make sure I never see my kids (ages 4 and 8) again. She also said she would teach my kids to hate me. And later when she had "left" she called and said she and the kids didn't deserve to live through this kind abuse any more and she wished she could kill herself. She said she was gonna run a red light with the clear implication this would maybe carry out the wish to get them all out of this nightmare. In all this I didn't try to stop her because I feel from past experience she was trying to use escalation to gain some control over me or to punish me in some way. Finally she called one last time and said she was back at the house and was preparing to go inside and destroy everything. While on the phone she crashed the car into the house, or so I thought. She actually had crashed the van into our SUV and she backed up and did it again more than once. Some neighbors saw it happen. At that point I called 911. One of the neighbors called CPS who showed up to visit the house a couple days later.

I've been been remorseful and asked forgiveness. She doesn't feel like I really get it. A big issue between us is my lack of being in love with her. This has been going on now for 18 months. I had prepared a much longer explanation but I thought maybe it is best to start by asking a specific question and see where the replies go from there.

I seem to easily forget stuff that happens and upsets me. After a day or two, my feelings of anger have subsided and I can hardly remember what it even felt like to be angry. She seems to be able to nurture her anger and vindictive nature.

Have I lost my rights to my stuff? Should I just accept that because she has access to my accounts that she can just erase stuff whenever she wants? I think by now she's deleted everything she had problems with (a whole different conversation). But it seems I can't talk to anyone or receive emails/texts that she finds unflattering.

Not sure what to do or think any more. I would have been gone if not for the kids.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

Sounds like you both need to see a MC you both like. She has the right to expect total transparency, but her behaviour is controlling and that will do nothing but damage the relationship more.
Anger is a natural reaction of being the BS, but after a while it needs to be kept in check or it'll take over your life.
MC for the two of you and I'd suggest IC for her too.


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## harlisondavidly (Jul 4, 2011)

What's frustrating is that starting over with a new therapist for me means rehashing everything again that I already covered with the previous therapist. We did see her initially last year and then my wife went to someone else later and I kept going with the original one. At some point along the way my therapist had said something to my wife that really made her upset. And then our pastor and his wife suggested I see a male counselor instead. I did go and see one but felt like in 4 sessions I had gotten nowhere at all, while I had gotten immediate insights with the woman counselor from the first session. Now my wife says she doesn't want to go to a counselor. She says she just needs time and needs me to tell her whatever she feels she wants to know. One of our pastor friends who helped us for a while thought that this was a bad idea. Even in the Bible Jesus told his disciples that there were things he wanted to say to them but he couldn't because they weren't ready to hear it. So anyway, I guess that complicates things. 

She does tend to sit at home all day and just let her mind wreak havok with her thoughts.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yes, you f-cked up by cheating on your wife. It's good you realize that. 

And yes, you lost your right to privacy.

With that said, I would not recommend getting back together until your wife gets her head examined. A normal person does not crash their car into an SUV repeatedly and threaten taking the kids with them and running into a red light in order to get "taken out."

I wouldn't consider reconcilation. You should get counselling for yourself to find out why you have stayed in a marriage if you say you don't love your wife.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

1. Again, yes you did give up your right to privacy but that's kind of part of a good marriage anyway. 

2. You did not give her the right to delete stuff from anything that belongs to you. She has the right to know it's there and to tell you how she feels about it but she does not have the right to take action without your consent. 

3. She sounds like she has serious issues and needs to get some help. Anyone who tells children that kind of stuff and threatens to turn your own kids against you is seriously questionable IMO. 

I would be careful, she doesn't sound stable. 

Good Luck.


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## harlisondavidly (Jul 4, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> And yes, you lost your right to privacy.


I agree about the privacy. What about property destruction? Like the iPhone or deleting stuff off my computer. Seems to me that having access to maintain transparency doesn't imply destroying stuff (either physical or electronic)... The damage to the two cars will cost us $800 out of pocket. Total is about $2400. Wife called insurance and reported an "accident". The sheriff who responded to 911 call did not file a report either, just an incident.

By the way, went to the Apple store and the employee who helped me had never heard such a tale before, said I took the prize for most far-fetched story on how a phone was damaged. Even though it is out of warranty by about 3 weeks, he gave me a new one at no charge. What a relief. Had I not decided to work in the garden, I would not have found it.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

harlisondavidly said:


> What's frustrating is that starting over with a new therapist for me means rehashing everything again that I already covered with the previous therapist. We did see her initially last year and then my wife went to someone else later and I kept going with the original one. At some point along the way my therapist had said something to my wife that really made her upset. And then our pastor and his wife suggested I see a male counselor instead. I did go and see one but felt like in 4 sessions I had gotten nowhere at all, while I had gotten immediate insights with the woman counselor from the first session. Now my wife says she doesn't want to go to a counselor. She says she just needs time and needs me to tell her whatever she feels she wants to know. One of our pastor friends who helped us for a while thought that this was a bad idea. Even in the Bible Jesus told his disciples that there were things he wanted to say to them but he couldn't because they weren't ready to hear it. So anyway, I guess that complicates things.
> 
> She does tend to sit at home all day and just let her mind wreak havok with her thoughts.


It will be hard for you to reestablish your relationship without complete honesty. I am a BS, and my H held back the whole truth for months. We are 18 months past d-day and things are still rocky because he told me what he thought I" needed" to know. The result was that every time a new revelation came out it set me back to square one. It seems to me from reading your posts that you really aren't fully committed to your relationship with your wife. If it seems that way to me, it very likely seems that way to her too. If you want this M, you need to get off the fence and stop shopping for "experts" who will back you up. Stop worrying about your privacy and start helping your wife recover from what you have done to her. She is on an emotional roller coaster, and not of her own choosing. She needs some solid ground , and You need to man up and help her heal. Go to the MC of her choosing; give her your passwords, and access to whatever she wants. Don't hide anything from her, or you will come off looking sneaky and dishonest to her. Once you have regained her trust, then you can have your "privacy" back, but be sure that you don't abuse it again.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I think any marriage should involve transparency regarding phones, Facebook, email, etc. Don't lock your phone. When one partner has had a PA/EA, transparency becomes even more important. Deleting innocent emails/texts doesn't seem reasonable. She could at least discuss them with you before you both agree to any action required.

Also, counselors should be acceptable to both spouses. Sometimes, a counselor just doesn't click with one or both spouses. So you should try another. Keep going until you both like one.

However, your wife is batsh!t crazy. And you can't fix that. You should document everything she says and does for the custody battle. If your state allows it, record all her conversations. Keep the ones where she threatens to kill herself and your children for the judge to hear.


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## harlisondavidly (Jul 4, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> 1. Again, yes you did give up your right to privacy but that's kind of part of a good marriage anyway.
> 
> 2. You did not give her the right to delete stuff from anything that belongs to you. She has the right to know it's there and to tell you how she feels about it but she does not have the right to take action without your consent.
> 
> ...


Posted my other reply before seeing yours. See, what you are saying makes sense to me. Her view is that I stole her life from her and so whatever I lose because of her actions or because of her requirements for transparency is a small price compared to what she has lost. While I do agree with her argument I seem to get lost when she says that the violence and vindictiveness is my fault too because I did the stuff that causes her to be this way now.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> If your state allows it, record all her conversations. Keep the ones where she threatens to kill herself and your children for the judge to hear.


A must!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

harlisondavidly said:


> The damage to the two cars will cost us $800 out of pocket. Total is about $2400. Wife called insurance and reported an "accident". The sheriff who responded to 911 call did not file a report either, just an incident.


That is insurance fraud. Insurance policies don't cover intentional acts.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

harlisondavidly said:


> . What about property destruction?


It's wrong. 



harlisondavidly said:


> Her view is that I stole her life from her


In a way, you did. You made her believe you were true to her when it was a lie. You deceived her. 

Nonetheless, I would not consider you guys carrying on as everything's ok w/o intense counselling. Her reaction has been extreme and I would be worried out of my mind for your kids if she made the comment about the "red light." 

Also, again, if you don't love her, why stay married? It would be a crueller deception to pretend as if you care if you don't after all of this.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

harlisondavidly said:


> Posted my other reply before seeing yours. See, what you are saying makes sense to me. Her view is that I stole her life from her and so whatever I lose because of her actions or because of her requirements for transparency is a small price compared to what she has lost. While I do agree with her argument I seem to get lost when she says that the violence and vindictiveness is my fault too because I did the stuff that causes her to be this way now.



I'm here as a cheating husband in an EA also. When my D Day came I gave her all of the truth in one shot and gave her complete transparency. I also, *very nicely*, told her that if she could not get over what I had done in time and with all the help I could give her to tell me because I did not intend to have my arse kicked for the rest of my life. You did what you did. The best you can do is make honest amends and efforts to save the marriage if that is what you both want. You are not obligated to take a beating for the rest of your days. 

+1 on documenting your wife's actions.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm going to hit you with some 2x4s because you deserve some of it and its obvious by your actions why your betrayed wife has not been healing. Get this: *You are an unremorseful cheater.* You say you are, but your actions and attitude show you arent. You are not doing the heavy lifting that is needed to repair the damage you have done to your wife and family. What you are doing is RUGSWEEPING. As a betrayed husband I have very little sympathy for OM like you who are doing this to their betrayed wives.



harlisondavidly said:


> So one problem my wife and I have is that she insists on having access to my email, my iPhone, etc. Understandable.


Damn right that's understandable, yet you say it's a problem? You think it's a problem for you to be transparent? The purpose of being transparent is so you can rebuild trust with her. You broke that trust. If you were truly remorseful, you would be begging her to check your stuff so she can see she has nothing to fear. I get the feeling that you are only doing this grudgingly and not willingly. Its no wonder your BW can't heal.



harlisondavidly said:


> Does that also give her the right to erase stuff from my computer that she doesn't like? She has done this several times. Or if I have a text conversation with a friend and use a term she doesn't like to describe something she did, should I expect her to throw that in my face? That did happen last week.


You don't understand what it's like to be betrayed, do you? Hopefully one day the karma bus runs you over and you will feel the pain that she's feeling. There are going to be a lot of things that trigger your wife, such as pictures of the OW, emails, texts. Things like these are going to trigger her and thats perfectly normal. Know what a trigger is? An act, an item, pictures, texts, emails, etc, that trigger her memories of your affair with the OW and that brings back the hurt. You are not empathetic at all to your BW's triggers. In fact, you are defensive about them.



harlisondavidly said:


> So I locked my phone with a password.


And I bet that infuriated her, because that would certainly infuriate me no end. issed: issed: issed: issed: issed:

No doubt, your damn phone was the affair phone and one of the main instruments of the affair. That shows you do not respect her and it shows without a doubt that you're not willing to be transparent for her.



harlisondavidly said:


> The next morning my phone was missing. She didn't indicate she had anything to do with it even when I asked her directly about it. She did say she thought the phone was outside somewhere (I had once last another iPhone in the snow a couple years back). I looked for it for days. Yesterday I decided to rototill my garden plot to get rid of the weeks. Guess what I found? My iPhone buried in about 6 inches of dirt. She still doesn't accept responsibility.


You're lucky she didn't just pitch it into the trash. If my WW had done what you had done, I would have stomped it in front of her. I hate that damn affair phone.



harlisondavidly said:


> She also has "forced" me to disable my Facebook account,


Again, you're showing that you aren't willing to be transparent, that you are only being forced to. You are not remorseful and you aren't willing to do anything to save the marriage unless you're forced to.



harlisondavidly said:


> I closed my MySpace account (never used it), gave her access to all email accounts, etc.


Yes you did, but only after being forced. See what I'm saying?



harlisondavidly said:


> But my main beef is that I feel she doesn't respect "my" property. She's deleted emails, Facebook messages, music from my computer, etc. She even threw away a CD given to me by some lady friends (3 sisters) I used to work with 15 years ago. She felt threatened by my connection with them, or one of them in particular.


Your property? You gave up the right to privacy the moment you started pursuing your OW and destroying your marriage. Those CDs are probably triggers for her you know and so is your relationship with these so-called "lady friends". 



harlisondavidly said:


> Last week when we had a very tough spell after I told my wife I was going back to see a counselor. She has a problem with this counselor and told me that I should NOT come home if I kept my appt. A couple days later I did decide I needed to stay somewhere else.


You wife doesn't like this counsellor right? Perhaps she feels this counsellor isnt helping and is validating your feelings about the affair. Your betrayed wife feels strongly about this counsellor, so what do you do? You go ahead and see this counsellor anyway. You totally disrespected her wishes once again and thought about yourself only. Its all about you, isn't it? Once again you show to her that you aren't willing to do the heavy lifting of repairing this marriage! After you screwed her over by pursuing your OW, you do this to her. Yeah, I would be extremely pissed too.



harlisondavidly said:


> It got to the point where she told me she wants a divorce (this has happened before). So during this time, since we were going to end it anyway, she decided to ask me some very personal sexual questions (regarding fantasies and masturbation) about my EA. I had not been willing to discuss this with her before. She suggested that because we were getting a divorce she needed to know this information so she could find some closure. Against my normal reluctance, I gave in and did reveal some info she wanted. Wow, what a mistake. That night she got so violent and angry, she threatened to leave, she told the kids while I was on the phone that daddy doesn't love them any more and he is making them and her move out of the house so he can have sex with another woman in our house. She said she'd make sure I never see my kids (ages 4 and 8) again. She also said she would teach my kids to hate me. And later when she had "left" she called and said she and the kids didn't deserve to live through this kind abuse any more and she wished she could kill herself. She said she was gonna run a red light with the clear implication this would maybe carry out the wish to get them all out of this nightmare. In all this I didn't try to stop her because I feel from past experience she was trying to use escalation to gain some control over me or to punish me in some way. Finally she called one last time and said she was back at the house and was preparing to go inside and destroy everything. While on the phone she crashed the car into the house, or so I thought. She actually had crashed the van into our SUV and she backed up and did it again more than once. Some neighbors saw it happen. At that point I called 911. One of the neighbors called CPS who showed up to visit the house a couple days later.


While I don't condone property damage, I can understand how your betrayed wife feels. You have been unremorseful, not willingly transparent, not doing the heavy lifting, defensive, etc. Its no wonder she went off the way she did and why she hasn't been able to heal. You haven't helped her one bit. YOU did this to your marriage. If OW didn't turn you down, you would have gladly f*cked her. 



harlisondavidly said:


> I've been been remorseful and asked forgiveness.


No, you haven't been. You have been rugsweeping. 



harlisondavidly said:


> She doesn't feel like I really get it.


Because you really don't. It it shows by your actions. You are not empathetic to her feelings one bit. In fact, I would guess that you have been bugging her to "just get over it already".



harlisondavidly said:


> A big issue between us is my lack of being in love with her. This has been going on now for 18 months.


Then you should do the right thing and set her free. She deserves a real man who will lover her and the children and who will be faithful to her and not spit on his marital vows.



harlisondavidly said:


> She seems to be able to nurture her anger and vindictive nature.


Wrong. She's still hurting and not able to heal from the betrayal because you haven't been doing the work to repair the marriage. It takes 2-5 years to recover from this type of betrayal. Its hell on earth! And all you can say is that she is angry and vindictive. Shame on you.



harlisondavidly said:


> Have I lost my rights to my stuff?


You should not be having secrets from her at all, not after what you did to her. You are only being forced to be transparent, instead of being willingly transparent so that you can regain some trust with her. 



harlisondavidly said:


> Should I just accept that because she has access to my accounts that she can just erase stuff whenever she wants?


If you were truly remorseful, you would be doing anything to regain her love and trust, and that means WILLINGLY being transparent, which you are not. 



harlisondavidly said:


> I think by now she's deleted everything she had problems with (a whole different conversation). But it seems I can't talk to anyone or receive emails/texts that she finds unflattering.


If you were remorseful, you would be empathetic to what would trigger her, but you are not. 



harlisondavidly said:


> Not sure what to do or think any more. I would have been gone if not for the kids.


And if its just for the kids, then you should set her free. She deserves someone better. Look at this chart someone else made. This shows the difference between remorse and rugsweeping.










Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights « betrayed but recovering


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

No secrets. Transparency. If you F'up be thankful your SO loves you enough to take you back. Just sayin.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I'm here as a cheating husband in an EA also. When my D Day came I gave her all of the truth in one shot and gave her complete transparency. I also, *very nicely*, told her that if she could not get over what I had done in time and with all the help I could give her to tell me because I did not intend to have my arse kicked for the rest of my life.


It's so much easier for you to think that she will never get over this, isn't it? You repeatedly broke NC. Do you not even realize that every time you break NC, that is yet another DDay for her? The clock resets to zero. That's False R, after False R. As of May 27, you still couldn't even get your OW out of your mind, you were still obsessed with her instead of thinking of your betrayed wife. It's ONLY 4 months from DDay for her. She is still in agony and pain. I know I was still a mess 4 months out.

You should literally be down on your knees thanking her for even giving you a shot at R. R is a precious, precious gift, one that you need to earn. You need to rebuild trust with her and continue to be as transparent as you claim. *It takes on average 2-5 years to get over a betrayal of this magnitude*. Since you repeatedly broke NC, I don't know about your odds. Can you put in this effort? 

If my WW had broken NC repeatedly, like you have done to your own BW, we would be divorced now. That is the deal breaker.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I have put in the effort and will continue to for the rest of my life. And yes, the OW still periodically comes into my thoughts, I work on it, I don't like it, and I wish it would go away. Do I think the fact that the OW still enters my mind means I'm still cheating - emphatically no. Do I believe that if there were any significant feelings in an affair that one person can ever completely vanquish another from their mind, especially in months not years - no. I don't think it's possible to flip a switch and make thoughts of someone or something stop entering your thoughts - do you think that betrayed spouses are the only ones with triggers? You just said it takes on average 2 - 5 years to get over the betrayal of an affair, it takes at least some time for the betrayer to get over the emotions of the affair - even if they genuinely want and are willing to work for reconciliation. To me my pain and my personal recovery are just part of my heavy lifting, I don't expect my wife to help or understand but it's still part of it. I originally posted here because the fact that the OW was still in my mind was bothering me, thoughts of what I had done were bothering me and I simply needed some help and a place to talk about it and both the gentle hand and the 2X4's I received helped and I thank you all.

I never expected it to be easy for my wife to get over my EA. I also didn't nor do I intended to get my ass kicked for the rest of my life. I expected to and did for a time and that time may not be over but I will not live in a state being attacked and beat up because of something I did for the rest of my life. I just won't. I'm genuinely remorseful for what I did, if she can genuinely forgive me (which I believe she has) then we can reconcile - which we are. If she can't then I guess we can't. Just as BS ask for the whole truth so they have the information and can act accordingly I think that, after some period of time to cope, that the WS should be given the truth about if the BS can honestly forgive the WS so they can have the information and act accordingly. As everyone here says a marriage after an affair is never the same as a marriage before an affair and both sides have the right to know where the other is. 

Not that it makes it better, but for the record I only broke NC without my wife advance knowledge once. I confessed inside of 72 hours because I knew it was a deal breaker. The moment I woke my wife up at 2 am to tell her I had broken NC was the moment I was truly out of my EA - the moment that I picked my wife over my AP - the moment that I stopped trying to eat cake. 

And I thank God every day that I have a very understanding and patient wife who loves me very much.

Wow - that was a thread hijack - sorry to the OP.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Go buy the book "surviving an affair". It will help you understand what's going on in your head but more importantly, it gives you a plan to create a fulfilling marriage moving forward with your wife. You have to do something. Thinking that the thoughts of the ow will simply go away is not a good plan. You have to fill your head with more good thoughts about your time with your wife and that takes time and effort. You need a plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harlisondavidly (Jul 4, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> I'm going to hit you with some 2x4s because you deserve some of it and its obvious by your actions why your betrayed wife has not been healing. Get this: *You are an unremorseful cheater.*


I think you could be my wife's hero here. I'm sure she would agree with all you said in your post. Personally, I probably do as well, although I will need to let it all sink in a bit. I'm just glad you are somewhere in cyberspace and not my next door neighbor. That 2x4 sounds pretty solid and painful.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

harlisondavidly said:


> I think you could be my wife's hero here. I'm sure she would agree with all you said in your post. Personally, I probably do as well, although I will need to let it all sink in a bit. I'm just glad you are somewhere in cyberspace and not my next door neighbor. That 2x4 sounds pretty solid and painful.


Just letting you see it from the betrayed side's perspective. Never will I ever condone any domestic violence as she has done, but I can understand why she flipped out the way she did. She's not healing and you're not helping her to heal from what you've posted. I've been to enough domestic violence/domestic dispute calls to know that there two sides to every story, that there is a primary aggressor, etc. 

If you want to fix this, then you know what you need to do.


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