# Homework Assignment for Recovering Niceguys



## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Janie and I watched "Blue Valentine" over the weekend. It stars Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams.

Get a copy and absorb the lessons.

(I heard about this one from another member here. The appropriately named "Machiavelli" - an interesting character for sure)

Let's put it this way, Gosling could be re-named, "Lifescript, UpnDown, OVS, Conrad, jdlash, Matt1720, synthetic, teewhy, etc" and it would still fit.

Please don't feel badly if you got left out of this list. You know who you are!

Michelle Williams comes from an abusive home. Her father is a domineering screamer. Her mother is worthless. She's connected to her grandmother and reads her romance novels.

She's already had 25 partners by age 19 and we learn of her life retrospectively through flashbacks. We see her relationship with her a-hole alpha jock who gets her pregnant and we see Gosling's charm and wit as a boyfriend - and we see how all his game melts into a 100% beta wuss. Of course, she ends up despising him.

She asks him all the right questions, but - of course - his feelings get hurt. She wants him to be interesting. He wants to numb himself with beer and immerse himself in the alpha dog's child.

We really should have an ongoing thread on this movie - because it's so filled with truth.

It will teach you more about this dynamic than just about anything you will see or read. It's true art - and very depressing.

He CHOOSES to surrender his own life to her. And, the psychodrama that plays out is as painful as anything I've seen.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'll have to watch it soon.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Well seeing how I have goslings good looks, I might as well watch the movie.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C&J,
Agreed. 

This film is dark, depressing and utterly brilliant in its depiction of this dynamic. 

All the more so because it depicts Gosling as a man with a lot of innate talents that he does nothing with. 




Conrad&Janie said:


> Janie and I watched "Blue Valentine" over the weekend. It stars Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams.
> 
> Get a copy and absorb the lessons.
> 
> ...


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

Then watch "Drive", and see how I now spend my nights driving around listening to 80s sounding electronic music. 

I'll have to check it out.

Edit: The "graphic" sex scene sounds all too familiar. Like our last time, with me wondering "what the hell was that" and feeling really empty.


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

Ok so I have a question for you nice guys- I always see a lot on this site about what a man has too do take make a woman happy but never the opposite. I am now dating a great guy, what do i need to do to make him happy, other than the obvious of sex ( a lot) and food. He is a giver like me, im so used to satisfying a taker i don't know what to do with it-


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

unsure78 said:


> Ok so I have a question for you nice guys- I always see a lot on this site about what a man has too do take make a woman happy but never the opposite. I am now dating a great guy, what do i need to do to make him happy, other than the obvious of sex ( a lot) and food. He is a giver like me, im so used to satisfying a taker i don't know what to do with it-


Have you ever read the book "His Needs Her Needs" by Willard Harley?


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

Keep it simple. 3 S's

Sex, Solitude, Sandwiches. 

If at any point in providing these three things you can turn it into something satisfying (sex=duh, solitude=spending time alone on things you enjoy, sandwiches= make one for you) more power to ya!

And read that book lol.


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

Conrad&Janie said:


> Have you ever read the book "His Needs Her Needs" by Willard Harley?


I actually have it but only looked at it when i was trying to save my marriage- cant remember to much since its was in the middle of all my [email protected] hmm i may have thrown it out after he left - will have to look


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

unsure78 said:


> I actually have it but only looked at it when i was trying to save my marriage- cant remember to much since its was in the middle of all my [email protected] hmm i may have thrown it out after he left - will have to look


I hear that, reading books on relationships while you're in the middle of all the crap is like admiring the stained glass on the Titanic while its going down.


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

Downloading this movie for later - thanks for the recommend. Having read the writeups/wiki on it, actually feel a bit apprehensive about watching it - hoping it won't throw me into a dark depression, as I'm having a bit of an iffy day today as is. I think the fact the little girl seems to feature quite heavily in the movie might be a bit much, as that remains the real sticking point for me in my whole breakup.

I think I'd better have my current fave of Crazy, Stupid Love on standby for a pick-me-up....a movie that I highly recommend if anyone feels like trying on your WS/WAW's MLC for size yourself...and its nice and cheerful!


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

unsure78 said:


> I actually have it but only looked at it when i was trying to save my marriage- cant remember to much since its was in the middle of all my [email protected] hmm i may have thrown it out after he left - will have to look


It's really well done - and a good place to start understanding what meeting the emotional needs of the opposite sex actually entails.

Harley's hypothesis (after decades of couples counseling) is that there are 5 key things that we "get" from the opposite sex while dating that drop off and tend to go stagnant once a relationship goes from white hot dating to longer term stuff.

For men, those 5 things are:

1) Sexual Fulfillment
2) Having a playmate
3) Attractive partner
4) Admiration
5) Domestic Support

Even if men don't say it, if a woman bangs him regularly, doesn't let herself go (the weight thing), keeps the place clean (old-fashioned, but important), shares his recreational interests (think about how girls who can talk football get attention), and actually admires him (rather than secretly resent him), she's got a great shot at keeping him around as long as she wants.

There's a list of 5 things for women, but that's not what you asked


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

Matt1720 said:


> I hear that, reading books on relationships while you're in the middle of all the crap is like admiring the stained glass on the Titanic while its going down.


I think there are so many of us on here who have been there and done that. Shame its all too common for us to get to that point and then do it. I think this video sums many situations up fairly well (although to be honest, again, people will not watch this until its too late, either - as per the books):

Prevent Your Divorce: The Walkaway Wife Syndrome | Divorce Busting


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

worrieddad said:


> Downloading this movie for later - thanks for the recommend. Having read the writeups/wiki on it, actually feel a bit apprehensive about watching it - hoping it won't throw me into a dark depression, as I'm having a bit of an iffy day today as is. I think the fact the little girl seems to feature quite heavily in the movie might be a bit much, as that remains the real sticking point for me in my whole breakup.
> 
> I think I'd better have my current fave of Crazy, Stupid Love on standby for a pick-me-up....a movie that I highly recommend if anyone feels like trying on your WS/WAW's MLC for size yourself...and its nice and cheerful!


Just call it a Ryan Gosling marathon.


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

Conrad&Janie said:


> It's really well done - and a good place to start understanding what meeting the emotional needs of the opposite sex actually entails.
> 
> Harley's hypothesis (after decades of couples counseling) is that there are 5 key things that we "get" from the opposite sex while dating that drop off and tend to go stagnant once a relationship goes from white hot dating to longer term stuff.
> 
> ...


Thanks conrad


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## boxhead201 (Jun 8, 2012)

Conrad -

Just curious, what is the women's viewpoint on Harley's hypothesis? Any links ?

FYI - I think I have Blue Valentine in my video queue. Will reprioritize. I just saw "Revolutionary Row" and that one was a good one too.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

boxhead201 said:


> Conrad -
> 
> Just curious, what is the women's viewpoint on Harley's hypothesis? Any links ?
> 
> FYI - I think I have Blue Valentine in my video queue. Will reprioritize. I just saw "Revolutionary Row" and that one was a good one too.


Women need...

Affection
Honesty and Openness
Financial Security
Family Commitment
Conversation


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## boxhead201 (Jun 8, 2012)

For "Family Commitment," does that mean I should be bending over backwards for the MIL? I was committed to my own family (wife+kids), but I was not willing to sacrifice my family for the MIL.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

boxhead201 said:


> For "Family Commitment," does that mean I should be bending over backwards for the MIL? I was committed to my own family (wife+kids), but I was not willing to sacrifice my family for the MIL.


No. It's primarily about her and her children. That's where she wants to feel secure.

Keep in mind, meeting these emotional needs is quite helpful AFTER establishing boundaries of mutual respect.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Conrad&Janie said:


> Janie and I watched "Blue Valentine" over the weekend. It stars Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams.
> 
> Get a copy and absorb the lessons.
> 
> ...


Conrad,

I actually saw this movie almost 2 months ago. Wao. I saw myself in Gosling's character although I've never been this self-destructive. He was throwing his life away doing nothing. 

I sometimes wonder when a couple get to this point, is there any hope left? In the movie, it was obvious she was done. She had lost respect for him. Didn't appreciate that he stayed with her after finding out she was pregnant with the other guy's baby. 

Sometime alarming in the movie was that people around them including her co-workers saw him as the bad guy. This is what happens in real life all the time.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Conrad, 

Who should Gosling be more angry at you think? His wife or himself? 

I think he is responsible for some of the blame. But when this happens -- when someone takes you for granted and don't appreciate what you have done for them, doesn't it makes them look evil and bad? 

I don't I would ever take advantage of someone who was giving me her all.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

She did nothing to him he didn't allow her to do.

He should be livid with himself.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Conrad,
> 
> I actually saw this movie almost 2 months ago. Wao. I saw myself in Gosling's character although I've never been this self-destructive. He was throwing his life away doing nothing.
> 
> ...


OF COURSE her co-workers saw him as the bad guy.

You know she was his victim, don't you?

How many times do you have to live this movie?

I'm sure he thought she'd be grateful he was willing to raise another man's child.......

Shows how much he really understands about attraction.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

He should be mad with himself of course. Does it mean he should forgive her thought? That's what I'm stuck on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> He should be mad with himself of course. Does it mean he should forgive her thought? That's what I'm stuck on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


First he has to forgive himself.

Once he's right with himself, he can get around to her.


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

"Conversation"

just because it is on the bottom of the list, don't let it underwhelm you...although I heard my wife all the time, I stopped listening long ago...

I spent four hours in my truck with my 18 month old grand baby Layla on the way to St. Louis, she baby chattered constantly (reminded me of my wife)...as long as I listened and responded to her chatter appropriately, she was fine...when I just heard, and replied back, she threw a fit...she needed to know I was attentive...she needed me...I am learning...

will check out the movie...cause I still have a lot to learn!


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

DjF,

All 5 are weighted equally.

They're simply the emotional needs women have that are least likely to "continue" being met in an LTR.

What gets so many people resentful is that these are almost always met - to the max - in a dating relationship.

Feels like the bait and switch when they stop.


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

Understood...conversation/communication is so vital that the other 4 needs cannot be met with out it...there are so many ways to "talk," to hold conversations without ever openning your mouth...


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

DjF said:


> Understood...conversation/communication is so vital that the other 4 needs cannot be met with out it...there are so many ways to "talk," to hold conversations without ever openning your mouth...


We have some high quality people here. There is intense depth of feeling and introspection going on every single day.

What simply blows me away is all the old truisms...

"Patience is a virtue"

"Moderation in all things"

"Enough is as good as a feast"

All of these things are true but only ONCE YOU ARE RIGHT WITH YOURSELF.

Patience does you absolutely no good if you're on the wrong road. "Moderation" is worthless if you are mixing something good with something bad... the good becomes bad.

The goal in this forum... as it is in life.... is to get right with yourself. This is a hugely difficult task, but once accomplished, so many things in life become unbelieveably easy. The right road becomes so clear, you could never tolerate being on the wrong one ever again.


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

and we are taught when we are married, that two shall become one...

true as it should be, but never neglect the one, stay right with yourself...but never over indulge the one, or the other one also...

it is easy as long as you stay on the right path, veer off of it, and all hell can break lose...


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

After I realized I needed to stand up for myself and stop enabling her abusive behavior and stop her from destroying our marriage even more I faced strong resistance from her. Accusations of me trying to control her, etc. It's tough when the reaction of you making a change and standing up for yourself is criticism. In my situation, it will take her hitting rock bottom and a lot of patience in the form of letting time pass and see what happens without expecting anything to happen.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

I forget script, is yours working?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Yes. She works. Thank GOD.


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

I don't want to see this movie...if i do I have to treat it like a horror movie when i was little. Comedy RIGHT after so I don't dwell on it.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Yes. She works. Thank GOD.


and she still asks for money?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

Her money is her money and our money is her money. Are you surprised?

Bad decisions on all fronts.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Matt1720 said:


> I don't want to see this movie...if i do I have to treat it like a horror movie when i was little. Comedy RIGHT after so I don't dwell on it.


You NEED to see this movie.


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

I will, I just NEED to watch Mel Brooks after.


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

Matt1720 said:


> I don't want to see this movie...if i do I have to treat it like a horror movie when i was little. Comedy RIGHT after so I don't dwell on it.


Well, I finally got round to watching this last night. Matt, yep, you'll need a comedy right afterwards...I did my whole Ryan Gosling night, with Crazy, Stupid Love in the number 2 slot!

Blue Valentine - Conrad is exactly right....anyone going through this will see a lot of themselves and their situation in there. I certainly did - in fact the discussions where she talked about him and any potential ambitions, and where he responded with the fact that he was a husband and father first and foremost....had similar myself. His end comment about her being selfish, "Think about the family" - that one was really close to bone for me and it is that aspect for how this will all impact my daughter as times moves on that I still have real trouble reconciling. In my case, my stbxw and I have a real value clash as regards the importance of an intact family. I'm not sure I'll ever really be able to let that go....and if I do, it'll certainly not be for a long time. While I really have made great progress detaching from her....I can't say the same in detaching from the nuclear family aspect.

My situation of course not to the extremes of the movie - but for hard hitting melancholy reflection...I've not seen anything that strikes nerves like than one - thanks for the recommend.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

It was painful at times.


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