# 13 and pregnant?? WHAT??



## Waits4Mr.Right

Ok, so here goes nothing....I guess I'm ready to get bashed BUT I'm hoping that maybe SOMEONE, at least ONE person can at least give me some advice...I already know I'm a bad and terrible mom, scum of the earth. Call me what you want. Lord knows how bad I've already beaten myself up. You guys can't really make me feel any worse.
My daughter has always been a very hard child to deal with and it has progessively just gotten worse sense she was about seven. She would go to school and tell them that I wouldn't feed her, or that she had no clothes, ect. Of course Social Services were called about three or four different times and each time having to close the case. My daughter had lied. Then about three years ago, she held me at knife point and said that she was going to stab and kill me. I never got stabbed but I was scared. I went to my room and locked the door that night. The next morning on my way to work, I called her therapist and told her/him what had happened. They told me to take her to the ER. I did, and they sent her to a syc. ward for about nine days and sent her home though I told them that I didn't feel safe....Through the next couple of years she continued getting into trouble with the police for destroying property, underage drinking, curfew violations, skipping school ect.
The police would find her and ask HER where she wanted to go. Home or school.. Police said that they couldn't force her to go to school if she didn't feel like it.. ??? What a system! We're talking about a 12-13 year old.
Anyway, my daughter got pregnant about a month befor her fourteenth birthday. The father is a 25 year old perv. that she thinks she's in love with. He's now in jail but now my daughter wanted my permission to let that aunty (his sister in~law) take the baby to the jail to visit him. I told my daughter "HELL NO!" My daughter said that it's not my baby and she can do what she wants.... I told her yeah right. I told her that she lives underneath my roof and I'm the one that's going to have to buy the diapers, food, clothing, dr. apt, ect, ect...
To be honest I'm fed up.... I would understand the behavior if I was a druggy, a partier, or just the case of a revolving door of men. None of which I am or have ever happened. I go to work and I come home..That's it. That's my life. I haven't even had a boyfriend in seven years and now even THAT is a door that is nailed shut. How could I possibly, with a clear concious, ask a guy to put up with my daughter, when half of the time I can't even deal with her?? It wouldn't be fair to him
So I guess what I want to know is, if you were in my situation what would you do? My daughter has nowhere to go and begs her dad to take her but he refuses. He's never had any real interest in the girl and social services would never allow it any way. Her only chioces are my home or foster care...If she goes into the system, she could lose the baby but she refuses to listen or follow rules and basically does what she wants...My concern is for the baby.
Thoughts anyone??????


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## RandomDude

Wow... =/

How the hell did all this start? This sounds like a nightmare!


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## Waits4Mr.Right

((SIGN!!)) Like I said, things have just gotten worse, and worse over the years...Now this is where I'm at. I have been asking for help with her and just kept getting the brush off. I tried the best I could but this is where I'm at now...The system seems to continue to side with my daughter saying that she's the parent of the baby and if she wants the father to see her, it's her decition. I'm not happy!


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## Laurae1967

No advice except to never give up on your daughter. That doesn't mean put up with abusive behavior, but always love her no matter what. Sounds like she has a lousy father (maybe he abused her?). I'm not sure how a well-supervised 13 year old girl has a relationship with a 25 year old man, or how she got pregnant, why she kept the baby, and a whole host of other questions.

Children are products of their environment and the "family system". Are you getting therapy? Why is her father not allowed to take her? What dysfunction in the family is she reacting to? What type of mental illness (bipolar perhaps) is she dealing with?

My guess is that you don't currently have the emotional resources to deal with your daughter effectively (clearly) but I hope you will not stop trying to get help for yourself so that you can better help your daughter.


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## RandomDude

Yes but what exactly started this? She can't just get progressly worst for no reason whatsoever. Was it her father, what was it?



> Children are products of their environment


Agreed.


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## Waits4Mr.Right

Her father never abused her but just has no interest in her. An example: My daughter had just had the baby and her dad went to the hospital to visit her for all of thirty minutes. Through out the pregnancy, her dad may have seen her MAYBE three or four times. He's always been like that. My daughter has a bad relationship with him but still continues to deal though it makes her sad, which turns into anger. =(
As for therapy, S.S won't make her go even though this situation with the baby is considered sexual assualt. Go figure that. Personally I think she was looking for that "fatherly love" that she wasn't recieveing from her father.
As for how she got pregnant by a 25 yr. old. My daughter had lied, #1 about his age and refused to let me meet him. When I voiced my concerns about her friends to the therapist, they said that she needs to make those decitions on her own. All that I could really do was give her information on good and bad influences...Needless to say, THAT didn't work.


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## RandomDude

Well, considering she held you at knife point... to be honest I don't know what to say, this situation is, well, intense!

Only advice I can give is not to be afraid of her even at knife point, it only encourages her behaviour, trust me on that. Furthermore what kind of friends does she hang out with? What type of school is she in? When was the last time you two actually had a heart-to-heart talk about life?


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## Waits4Mr.Right

All her friends are her age. I met the parents of them all, have thier phone number and know where they live.
Her baby's dad use to live in the same complexes we live in. That's how she met him. They would spend time together while I was at work or my daughter would lie and say she was going to the store and really she'd be out with him...She lied about him knowing I would turn him in
As for school, last year it was a regular middle school. This year it's a school geared toward teen moms and getting them through fast to graduate so they don't drop out.
As for talking to her. I have and continue to but it get harder and harder. She's convinced that she can make it on her own and that she don't need me. She wants to get imancipated and move out. S.S told her no. So my daughter continues to make life difficult while being forced to live with me....True, she is no longer violent but I've told her that if it ever even came close that I would call the cops. I told her at that point, she might as well kiss that baby bye for the last time. No way will the police leave a defenceless baby in a violent home


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## that_girl

Sounds like your daughter has mental issues and needs some professional help.

We went through something similar with my brother...but it was drugs and he was 17. My stepdad shipped him away to a rehab for almost a year. He came back ok, but at 22, he's now going back to his old ways. Heartbreaking, and I've cut all ties. 

Continue to love your daughter but don't be a doormat or live in fear. The minute shet goes down, call CPS on her and have that child put in your custody (if that is what you'd do). Sad situation. My daughter is 12 and while she is very young for her age, I am ready for the teen years...well....as ready as I'll ever be.


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## SunnyT

Well.... I've been there... D had her baby at 15. And no, I'm still not sure how this happened. Seems like one day we were in girl scouts (and I was the GS leader) selling cookies, and the next... she was pregnant. This d wanted to finish school, so mom did double duty... helping with the baby, working full time, taking the baby to free day care (thank God! for friends!) and being a taxi....in addition to dealing with my 4 other kids. Ex husband was no help, and this baby was the straw that broke the camel's back...and proved his lack of character when he walked out. 

Without going into a long story....these are some things I've learned. WHILE teens are pregnant, they are considered emancipated and you have no say in their decisions. Once they have the baby, they are not and you are responsible 100% but only for your child, not the grandchild. Your daughter gets to make all the calls regarding her baby. Of course you give your opinion, but there is nothing you can do till whatever age is considered legal in your state. (I tried to talk mine into adoption, no go.... we were on good terms tho, but I busted my butt trying to figure this out). I was told emancipation would only be granted by the court after the age of 16, and ONLY if the child had a full time job, was self-supporting, had a plan to finish their education, etc... 

The county health department was as helpful as anything. They WANT to help, and if you can get a rapport with a case worker they will TRY to do everything they can to work with you and d. Of course d being defiant doesn't help. I made myself familiar with DCF and the health department people, made every contact I could. 

My other d...not pregnant... was ridiculously defiant. Skipped school, dated an older guy, ran away so many times.... In her case, I kept a file. Every freakin thing she did I noted it. Every time the cops had to be called for an altercation or because she ran away, I kept their card and noted it. I'd hand them a sheet with all her stats. I kept one step ahead of the truant officer because I could be in trouble for her not going to school. I've had police drag her out of bed and bring her to school in a patrol car. I'd call the truant officer when she wouldn't go to school.... I HAD to go to work. I went to counseling, when she was home I took her to counseling, I nailed her bedroom window shut, I did everything I could to stay on top of her. Her counselor said hope she gets arrested so the courts get involved...she did. They did. I was there every step. A friend of mine was able to get custody of the baby... when her d finally got arrested. She didn't WANT a baby, but she didn't want her out-of-control daughter to do something stupid with the baby. I told her the same thing, DOCUMENT everything, you may need it later. Document every argument, every time she takes off and leaves you with the baby, every time she goes out and parties, every time she steals something from you, every f'in thing..... 

She moved out when she was 16. I kept the "rap sheet" because I was afraid if she got into trouble, I'd be screwed. She didn't get into trouble, she got a job and has been working ever since... moved in with that same guy, they are still together 6 years later, getting married and having thier first baby. We are also on good terms.

Soooooooooo..... my advice.... even with a violent teen, stay on top of the situation. Do not back down. Remember your rights as a parent also.... you only have to provide a roof, bare minimum clothing, a mattress, and some sort of food. You do NOT have to pay for anything extra like a phone, or cool clothes, or cable, or anything else. Do NOT let her take advantage of you. Stay up with the truant officer, get every service you can from Children's services...that's what they are there for. YOUR child needs help, and her child needs help. If you have issues where she stays out partying and you keep the baby.... then call around, find out what your rights are and what choices you have. Educate yourself, even if its a pain in the butt and alot of work. If you have to occassionally get the police involved, do not fight with her in front of the police... be polite with them, explain that you want what is best for your child, show them your notes if you have to, get them "on your side". Yes, I hate that there are sides.... but there are. 

And ya know, she isn't doing this TO YOU..... she is lost, screwed up, whatever.... so I agree with DON'T GIVE UP ON HER.... even if you practice tough love, it's not because you are giving up. It's because you want her life to be ok. It's hard, and it sucks.... but it may just be YOU not giving up that saves her. And take her to get birth control shots or something that SHE doesn't have to be responsible for at this time. That sucked too.... but it was better than the alternative. 

This was a few years ago...My d's are now 22 & 23. D who had the baby at 15 has moved in with new H and I.... grand daughter is 8 years old and hasn't seen her dad in 4 years...his choice. She does have an awesome family with us tho. And d is 23 now, in nursing school.... trying to get to where she can support her d herself. 

Hang in there... do what you need to do. Take time out when you can. Don't be afraid to say no to your daughter. Be tough. I feel like I can type forever about this.... 

There are also online support groups for mom's of teen mothers. I also just finished a grad class and wrote a paper on teen mothers, and how the kids of teen mom's fare... The whole thing is family support. How the teen mom gets along in life, how the baby grows up without a miserable life is all about family support from the teen mom's family. Get help where ever you can.


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## CantePe

Support for Parents - Oppositional - Defiant - Conduct Disorders - Autism Spectrum - ADHD

These ladies and gents all go through the same issues or have gone through such. It is called oppositional defiant disorder or conduct disorder.

The CD group (link) can really help you. They have a bunch of veteran parents there that can send you in the right direction to get the help you need.


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## SunnyT

I just want to add.... that it's hard to even talk about all that.... 8 years later. And at the time, it was so freaking humiliating and embarassing, and frustrating. I HAD to think that I MUST have been part of the problem.... so there was "self" issues. BUT, you have to put that all aside, or save it for the counselor.... and keep pushing forward to do whatever it is you need to do.


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## Waits4Mr.Right

Thanks for all the replies...As a matter of fact when my daughter was at the psy.ward they had diagnosed her oppositional defient and gave her meds for depression because she threatened my life and her own. After about a month, she stopped taking the meds.
Then about seven months ago, she threatened her life again when the detective told her that her baby's father was in jail. They wanted to put her in a psy. ward that time too but couldn't find placement.
As for keeping the baby, SS says the baby will be the one to go to foster care if my daughter doesn't take proper care of the baby. They always talk as if the baby should have to get placement, that I couldn't retain custody. ;( Seems like I'm going to lose the baby no matter what. My daughter can't wait to move out and says I'll never see the baby. She's super angry for turning her boyfriend in...I'm really upset that the boyfriends sister doesn't see anything wrong with this whole situation. I mean really?? What twenty five yr. old man looks at a 13 yr. old and licks his lips and says I want to get with that?? GROSSS!!!!!!


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## freeshias4me

I'm only wondering in my mind if the options could be REVERSED! HER going into foster care, or psych ward until she's better, and YOU getting the baby. Could you talk to a custody lawyer, and explain your daughter has emotional issues, but Social Services is not on your side? Does social services KNOW she was in the psych ward?

On a personal note, I went through HUGE issues myself. I was "outraged" because I went through verbal abuse, and other issues with my parents. I ended up very bitter, and severely depressed. It takes TIME, effort on her part, medications, and a big SLAP of reality! I'm hoping she gets all these things somehow.

I would say, I would tell her I STILL LOVE HER, not matter what, but I am NOT taking nasty behaviour off her. I would help her with the baby, but not be her doormat and free baby-sitter service.
Maybe sit down calmly with her (if at all possible), and have a paper with the ground rules. (reasonable ones she can agree to), and tell her if she sticks to them, you'll do you VERY BEST to take care of her, and help her with the baby.


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## Runs like Dog

Your daughter's in a bona fide gang, right?


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## Waits4Mr.Right

This whole thing seems wack to me. Basically what I'm getting is that a 13 yr.old, now 14 gets to decide everything. Go to school, don't go to school, clean or not to clean, take her meds or don't take her meds, to keep a baby (that she has no way of supporting) or abort or give up for adoption....To me this is wrong! She gets to decide and I have to just go along for the ride and in some cases feeling force to do things I don't want to do.... To be honest, I didn't want this baby. I wanted her to give it to a family that both wanted and could give her the best things in life. I can't do that finacially as I work and survive paycheck to paycheck. My daughter well, is out of the question because she's too young to get a job. Being that SHE chose to keep the baby, I'm now forced to take up the finacial, and medical responsibilities....Don't think for a minute that I don't love this baby, I do and that's why I want her to have a good life. I want the baby to get the best things in life, something I can't really provide. To my daughters credit, when she found out she was prego, she started babysiting. She bought a car seat, stroller, clothes and diapers to get herself started. I was very impressed that she stepped up to the plate BUT now the rest is up to me. The state looks at my daughter as the gardian (SP) of the baby, but wants MY paycheck stubs as the deciding factor if she gets help with the baby or not. Whatever they decide, I have to pick up the remains of what isn't covered. An example: My daughter was quick to make sure her dad paid for her cell phone bill, but got mad at me for buying Christmas decorations instead of diapers for the baby. I told her that once I found out that she had spent money on a phone instead of the baby's birth certificate, I chose to spend MY money the way I wanted to. I told her that as long as I see effort on her side to do her best, I don't mind HELPING but refused to do it all. Same thing goes for taking care of the baby. I watch her when I want to and on my terms. My daughter has her the majority of the time. I will watch her for a couple of hours at a time so my daughter has time to catch up on sleep, clean up a bit (her mess), make herself something to eat, and times for her to just get out and get a breather with friends. My problem is that being that she's the babys mom, she wants to take the baby into environments the I don't think are wise or safe. SS says she can and that I have no control. Yet another thing my child decides... If this is the case, what does she need me for? Oh yeah, I forgot, to support a baby that isn't mine. ((SIGN))


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I wish you the best! 

Some children can not be controlled when there are two working adults or a single parent that's raising children on her own. I'm pretty sure my oldest could of gone down this path if I didn't remarry or if I stayed with my first husband. Both my hubby and I are very strict and have the ability to watch them 24/7. Her classmate was pg at 13, my daughter thought that was the neatest thing. Luckily she changed her views. She's 17 and now planning to join the National Guard in a in a couple months.

Love her, and help the baby best you can. Make sure the boy's parents help too. They are half responsible or at least they should be. Raise this baby in a loving environment. If you don't think you or your daughter are ready or capable financially, put the baby up for adoption. Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jayde

Laurae1967 said:


> Children are products of their environment and the "family system".


This is a bullsh!t indictment of Waiting4MrRight. 

Yes, the environment plays a big part in a child's development but there is a big part that is just how they are. I have 3 children - all grew up in the same household, stable, 2 parents, not perfect but doing what we can. 2 kids are very well adjusted and 1 is having issues. All three are very different people with very different personalities, talents, etc. 

This comment seems to suggest that if all children were raised in a 'perfect' environment, they would all turn out the same. Really? W4MrR seems to be doing all that she can for this kid. And wereas she may not be doing everything perfectly, to comment like this, as if to chuck it back in her face, seems unhelpful if not downright mean.


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## WhereAmI

Wow. I'm so sorry. Honestly, fixing this situation will be extremely stressful for everyone. Is it possible for you to send her away to boot camp or something of the sort while you care for the baby? I was a teen mother. I spent the first two days that I was aware of my pregnancy on a " poor me" kick, but then something clicked and I knew life was no longer about me. I wish I knew what did it so I could share, but I'm just not sure.

If you can't send your daughter away, lay down the hammer. She is still your child and you still have a say. If she wants the aunt to take her baby (and you're 100% sure you have no say) then the aunt would have to come to your house to take the baby. Stop letting your daughter go anywhere but school and counseling. She can have friends over when she has exhibited good behavior, but she can't visit them outside the house until she's shown consistancy in her good behavior. Things will continue to be hard for quite some time. She'll run away (make sure to report) and act a fool. By all means get her back in the house, but make sure you're not protecting her from natural consequences. if she ends up in jail let her sit. If she blames you, let her know you're there to love her NOT to protect her from the consequences of her actions. If the cops catch her out and bring her home instead of school, take her back to school! AND for the gas it took you to drive her there, let her know you'll be selling one of her items to recoup your cash.

I understand you have an obligation towards the baby. I would continue to buy whatever that child needs, but the bare minimum for your daughter. She's been in control for so long that it's going to take quite some time for her to understand you're in charge again. Her clothes will now be furnished by goodwill, and only when necessary. Makeup and jewelry are not necessary. NO frills until she gets her life together. This girl does not respect what she's been given.

I don't recall reading if she's in counseling, but she needs it. She had a baby with a man who molested her. He took complete advantage of her naivety and made her life 10x more difficult in the process. It seems like your daughter acted out before this and I wouldn't be surprised if you found other instances of her being molested. My rough childhood had a lot to do with being molested. It doesn't surprise me that she won't acknowledge her child's father for who he is, either. I didn't realize that what happened to me was wrong until I was 18, over 11 years from the last incident. 

I don't envy what you've gone through and I certainly don't envy what you're going to go through. This power struggle will be monumental and challenge you more than anything in your life. Make sure you have a support system and a place to cry, because you will need it. Expect it to be he'll and maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I think you need to start spending a bit of time every day doing something good for yourself. It sounds like your daughter, who is perfectly capable of complex thought and action, is capable of fixing a meal or two for herself and her baby while you're having a bit of 'me' time. I mean, you weren't babysitting her while she got pregnant. I am all for being there for her, but you need to get out and have something to call your own out of this life. It does sound like she has some mental issues going on, but it also sounds like she's resourceful and capable, and when she is thoroughly backed into a corner, she will do what it takes to get out. But as long as she can back you into a corner by proxy, she doesn't have to keep track of where she is. Go out. Get a healthy relationship with someone. Start with yourself, and move on from there. You can't make up for what her dad doesn't do. Don't try.


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## Waits4Mr.Right

UPDATE:Things are continuing to get worse BUT maybe this isn't a bad thing.... I talked to the school and they want her to get a psy. eval. I told them how she is just freaking out, being verbally aggressive with me and just bouncing off of one subjuct to another.
She's freaking out about school because she wants to graduate early. She also wants to get her drivers license, get a job, a car and to live out on her own. She wanted me to take her to the court house, so she could get info. on how to become imansipated (SP??), though SS said this is not an option for her at this presant time....She then gets angry at me and says that I don't want her to succeed. I told her no, that I just wanted her to slow down! How can she possible do all these things and yet freaks out over her three wk old baby crying and tells her to shut up? I told her that she can still do all these things BUT she needs to take it one step at a time...
As for the eval, we've been there and done that. As for the counceling, we've been there and done that too. Parenting classes? Oh yeah been there too. As for books, I've read The 5 love languages for Teenagers, Love and Logic, and Parenting Teens.... Don't want to cry "uncle " but I'm just about there.
This has gotten down right embarressing, the way she acts and treats me. My house is a war zone. I'll put it this way. We've live at my current residence for about four years and people still think we either had just moved in or in the process of moving out the way my house looks. I just now started to unpack and rehang my candles on the wall. I even have gotten real ordinaments for the tree, instead of just the lights that already came with it. My daughter was so violent that I had to take them down....Now I threaten her with the police taking the baby if ONE thing should get broke by her. So far, she hasn't become violent...Right about now I really hate my life and I swear I'll NEVER have another kid! I don't know whatever I did to make her hate me so, but I won't go through this on my own again. I've learned my lesson REAL GOOD!...My friend asked me last night how things were going with her, and I lied and said, "no so bad".. What a joke! ((SIGN))
I wonder how many people reading this who don't have kids, are thinking twice about it now...Or maybe they are thinking it could never be them. I was one of the nieve. I thought as long as you did your best and you really loved and cared for your babies, that they would feel that. My child does not. My best was not good enough! Not looking for pity, just stating the facts. I know I made my bed ect,ect......


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## SunnyT

You have the internet... use it. Search the laws in your state... what the rights and responsibilities of grandparents with teen moms in the picture. 

While you are correct on the part about it's her baby and she can do whatever she wants with the baby, I think the part about school and anything else relating to your d isn't correct. Even if someone at SS told you that. The problem is, even at SS... they are often pretty much "clerks" who are ignorant of the laws. 

DOCUMENT....keep a journal of every fight you have with her. Write down every time she goes out somewhere risky with the baby. Write down every time she skips school. I also think that if she goes to jail, you could get "dibs" on the baby....research it. 

I think... that your only responsibility is to get formula (and some sort of diapers, altho that shouldn't be your problem... she should be able to keep trying for AFDC, so they can go after the dad later). 

I THINK that they won't allow you to try for GED til you are 16. And d can google emancipation laws in your state. Make her do the research. It's HER problem, not yours. I would tell her "I will take you to school, the dr., WIC, the grocery store for formula...and that's IT."


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## ScaredandUnsure

My ex husband has a daughter, who at 16 was not going to school, sneaking out, having sex, doing drugs, drinking and all sorts of stuff. I almost filed for divorce, it was that bad (I had just had twins and getting no sleep). So we ended up charging her with incorrigibility, and she ended up going to a youth home for girls until she was 18. We couldn't keep her safe if she was sneaking out at night, not knowing where she was going, etc. 

Maybe you could do something like that and possibly file for temporary custody of your grandchild, until your daughter turns her life around? Your daughter sounds very unstable, and young...which could turn into a very horrible disaster for your grandchild, odds are good that she'd end up abusing her child out of frustration and blame or just abandoning the baby when life gets too real for her. 

I hope you can get some help for your daughter, she definantly needs some help, or some tough love.

Good luck.


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## Waits4Mr.Right

Thanks for all the replies. Most of them helpful instead of dogging me out on my parenting. I try not to "kick" people when they're down. The fact is we all make mistakes and we don't all get it right. I'm a perfect example. Thankx for being kind and giving me ideas.
I'm trying to look up grandparents rights in the state of Co.but alot of the situations don't really pertain to me. I'll probably have to get on the phone to a few lawyers and see if I can't get some free advice and go from there.
Called the mental health where I live to get my daughter schedualed for an eval. They first gave me an apt. for the 22nd but after stressing the situation and just how intense, I think I'll get moved up. I told them that SS said that I can't kick out my daughter because by law I'm responsible for her. So I told them I'm about to kick out my granddaughter then in order to keep her safe. My daughter is out of control and won't listen to reason.....It's weird those because her moods swing and shift so much that I'm never sure what she's going to be like. We fought all day today but then she was as sweet as pie to BOTH me and the baby this evening, into tonight so far....She hasn't lost her patience with the baby once tonight. This is a good thing


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## Sherrynafehmft

Dear mother,
First, I want to take this chance and applaude you, that no matter how difficult it has been, you have been committed to your daughter and her baby. You need to be proud of yourself,ans stop blaming yourself for the way she is. You already know that she was diagnosed, and in order for her to function normal she needs a psychiatric evaluation. Consult w/ a lawyer that specializes in this kind of situation. pls take care of yourself and find a clinic or a therapist in your are to help you cope with this difficult situation. Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Laurae1967

jayde said:


> This is a bullsh!t indictment of Waiting4MrRight.
> 
> Yes, the environment plays a big part in a child's development but there is a big part that is just how they are. I have 3 children - all grew up in the same household, stable, 2 parents, not perfect but doing what we can. 2 kids are very well adjusted and 1 is having issues. All three are very different people with very different personalities, talents, etc.
> 
> This comment seems to suggest that if all children were raised in a 'perfect' environment, they would all turn out the same. Really? W4MrR seems to be doing all that she can for this kid. And wereas she may not be doing everything perfectly, to comment like this, as if to chuck it back in her face, seems unhelpful if not downright mean.


No, that's just how you chose to interpret my comments. No kid is raised in a perfect environment and I agree that kids each have their own personalities, etc. But it is also quite true that the family system plays a huge role in how kids develop. That is real. I'm not suggesting that this woman is to blame, but I also think it is naive to not examine every facet of the environment, the mother's own mental health, supervision of her daughter, the dynamic between her, her daughter, the father, and other family members, to see what is going on and what might be helpful to change. On top of that is the mental illness. It is important to look at ALL of that.

How you handle things makes a difference. Family systems make a difference. Most kids in therapy, for example, are there because of the family dynamic. Some child therapists actually prefer to treat the parents instead of the kids. But that is not the same thing as saying that the mother is to "blame".

My guess is that you are feeling some defensiveness because of your own situation, but that's not something I can help.


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## jayde

Laurae . . . I agree with your post above (and most of your posts btw). But this is not what you posted originally. I was interpreting what was posted. I was being defensive of the OP who seems to be dealing with a lot, doing all that she can and still has a tough situation. I personally would have thrown in a little compassion for the mom as well. But that's just me.


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## SunnyT

Hang in there Waits.... enjoy the good days, plod thru the tough ones.


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## Runs like Dog

If it were me the Hand of God Himself would come down and shake that little ho till her teeth fell out.


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## Lostwithoutwords

It's obvious that you daughter is having guidance issues. Instead of voicing how she feels she seems to express it through being rebellious. As far as her father not being there continuously she seems to find love in the wrong places e.g. having a baby with a guy who is 11 yrs older then her. At this point all you can do is continue loving her unconditionally whether she thinks you’re there for her or not. Reality hasn't really set in and she is definitely not mature enough to be raising and child. She may have to learn the hard way until she finally falls onto her face. I’m not saying kick her out but if it has to come to that point then that is what’s going to happen. Only if all avenues are exhausted and there is nothing left for you to do. If it does come to that solution then be prepared to deal with a whole another situation and that is someone having to take the responsibility of taking care of the baby. Another thing please DO NOT let her to continue to intimidate you she knows that she can do it and she will continue to take advantage. Your D really needs to be taught a lesson. I wish you luck.


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## that_girl

The girl could be mentally ill and need meds. That has nothing to do with parenting...it just happens.


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## ScaredandUnsure

Lostwithoutwords said:


> It's obvious that you daughter is having guidance issues. Instead of voicing how she feels she seems to express it through being rebellious. As far as her father not being there continuously she seems to find love in the wrong places e.g. having a baby with a guy who is 11 yrs older then her. At this point all you can do is continue loving her unconditionally whether she thinks you’re there for her or not. Reality hasn't really set in and she is definitely not mature enough to be raising and child. She may have to learn the hard way until she finally falls onto her face. I’m not saying kick her out but if it has to come to that point then that is what’s going to happen. Only if all avenues are exhausted and there is nothing left for you to do. If it does come to that solution then be prepared to deal with a whole another situation and that is someone having to take the responsibility of taking care of the baby. Another thing please DO NOT let her to continue to intimidate you she knows that she can do it and she will continue to take advantage. Your D really needs to be taught a lesson. I wish you luck.


Like that_girl said, she sounds mentally ill. No sane human pulls a knife on their mother. Dealing with a mentally ill person is extremely scary, ones who pull weapons, are homicidal or suicidal, you cannot ever let your guard down. My ex's daughter is bi polar and she used to cut, she was more harmful to herself than to others, but she put my son in danger a couple of times. This woman needs to get her daughter evaluated (which she's getting done asap) and hopefully medicated. I know it helped my stepdaughter, she is now a semi healthy person who is married and has two little boys. Not everything has to do with parenting, some people are just broken. It happens.


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## Waits4Mr.Right

So I've been on here reading other parent blogs in hope that maybe I missed something as far as my own daughter goes. I didn't find much but I still read to get maybe new and different ideas to try...
Anyway, since I last posted, my daughter and I met with SS AGAIN plus the head of SS too. I finally made the call to them and said enough was enough and I was kicking my granddaughter out. That I felt that she was in a hostile house and that I no longer felt that I could keep her safe. My daughter had told me befor hand that she wanted to take the baby to meet the father who is in jail.I said absolutly NOT! She told me that it was her baby and she could do what she wants....Between that arguement and others on where the baby could go, I was at my witts end.
Unfortunitly, THAT'S what it took for SS to do something. So we went to have a meeting with them and it went really bad! On the way there, I told my daugher that her school wanted her to get a syc. eval but my daughter refused. We continued on to the meeting and my daughter got upset there and was yelling and calling the head of SS a cow and an "F"ing B. This was a side of my daughter that even the regular SS lady (we have been dealing with for the past 9 mo.)had never seen! This was good for me but very bad for my daughter. They kept telling her to put the baby down and she told them no. Then they told her to stop yelling, that she couldn't do that holding the baby. In the end, they made her sign a form saying she was no longer allowed to be alone with the baby and that she would do the eval. It was either that or they would take the baby on the spot. She signed the paper and then ran off, leaving me with the baby, saying I was her mom now.
That following week, we did the "eval" and that didn't go well either. It was the same guy we had seen just a couple of years ago but that made no difference. My daughter told him that she wouldn't do therapy, or be put on any type of meds.She told him how she hated me and if I died that would make her day. At that point, I was crying and got up to leave. My daughter also told him that once she left my house, that I would never seen her or her baby again! That she couldn't wait to run off to mexico with her. Needless to say, I'm very hurt.
We went back to SS for a followup meeting and once again she got up set and left the room. While she was gone, the head of SS told me that they wanted to take her into custody. They're going to send her to a mental hospital so that she can be forced into therapy and possibly meds if they think they will help. I was like fine by me. They want to wait untill the 4th, to try to get through the holidays...We'll see
They also talked to me about possibly taking custody away from my daughter for good. They wanted to know if I wanted the baby. That was a tough one! Nothing is decided but I'm strongly leaning towards giving the baby up for adoption, hopefully to a nice Christian home. I love the baby and I want whats best for her. That wouldn't be me, I don't think. I'm unmarried, have a very unstable job and no real family. This baby should have a mom, dad, sis/bro's, auties, uncles, cousins, and grandparents. I want the baby to have the best things in life, things I couldn't possibly give her and neither can my daughter. My sister thinks giving the baby up would probably be best. She says that as long as I have the baby, my daughter would never leave me alone even though she would be living in a foster home. I would have to worry about prank calls, distuction of property, just basic stupid crap. Would all the drama really be worth keeping the baby. If I let the baby go, there wouldn't be drama or at least not as much. The family would have no tie to my daughter.
So I'm at a crossroad:What are your thoughts/opinions IF the state indeed takes the baby away from my daughter. In my position, what would you do?


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## SunnyT

Geez Waits.... You are getting your daughter the help she needs and that is awesome. You have persevered in what you thought was the right thing to do. Good for you!!!

No one can tell you what to do next, or what to do with the baby. You have to do what you think is right... for the baby. So far you have done everything that you've thought is right... trust yourself on this one as well. 

Maybe you don't have to make this decision right away. I know, you think the sooner the better as far as the baby is concerned. But maybe take your time and figure it out, see how it goes with your daughter, and with the courts. Maybe you really CAN'T know what to do right now, because you don't know how things are going to go. 

Take a breath, know that the wheels are turning, take it one day at a time right now. Keep working with SS, see if they will provide counseling for YOU for having to deal with all this mess. That might help.

Hang in there.... you are doing it.... slowly but surely....


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## Waits4Mr.Right

Thanks for everyone thoughts.....
Thanks for reading my grumbles SunnyT. This is all a very slow process and I know I'm just about to lose it all. My child will go into the system no matter what and my grandchild will get a new family. ((Sign!)) This is not what I wanted but at the same time, I'm tired of all the drama. I just want to live my life in peace but to get that, means to lose everything. Looks like I'm stuck...
For now, I'm trying not to think about it and to just to focus on having a good Christmas w/o any fights. I can do that, right? Time will tell
I'll update everyone once my child gets out of the hospital and I have a better idea how all this is fixin' to go. I need as many prayers directed my way as possible. Thanks!
Have a safe Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Everyone!


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## SunnyT

I think you have a good handle on it. And yes, it does feel like being stuck! But that doesn't last forever.... like you said, get thru the holidays and see how things change. They will change, one way or another. 

Good Luck Waits.... you are doing great!

And Merry Christmas to you and your family!


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## NotLikeYou

Waits4Mr.Right said:


> They also talked to me about possibly taking custody away from my daughter for good. They wanted to know if I wanted the baby. That was a tough one! Nothing is decided but I'm strongly leaning towards giving the baby up for adoption, hopefully to a nice Christian home. I love the baby and I want whats best for her. That wouldn't be me, I don't think. I'm unmarried, have a very unstable job and no real family. This baby should have a mom, dad, sis/bro's, aunties, uncles, cousins, and grandparents. I want the baby to have the best things in life, things I couldn't possibly give her and neither can my daughter. My sister thinks giving the baby up would probably be best. She says that as long as I have the baby, my daughter would never leave me alone even though she would be living in a foster home. I would have to worry about prank calls, destruction of property, just basic stupid crap. Would all the drama really be worth keeping the baby. If I let the baby go, there wouldn't be drama or at least not as much. The family would have no tie to my daughter.
> So I'm at a crossroad:What are your thoughts/opinions IF the state indeed takes the baby away from my daughter. In my position, what would you do?


Waits, first of all, let me say I am so sorry to read about the troubles you and your daughter are going through. I'm not the world's most sympathetic person, but I hate that anyone could be having the problems you describe with your daughter.

I think you should consider the fact that if you give your granddaughter up for adoption, it seems very likely that your daughter will never forgive you. It is a really lousy dilemma to be in. Other posters have urged you to never give up on your daughter, and I think that is the right stance, as long as she doesn't become physically violent towards you.

But given that she is about to be committed, she may already be beyond your reach. And from what you have written, I have to think that if you give the baby up for adoption, your daughter WILL be beyond your reach.

You list a lot of reasons that you don't think you're in a position to take custody of your granddaughter and raise her, but I can't help but think that none of them would matter much in a couple of months when that little girl smiles at you.

If you choose to take custody of your granddaughter, you may have some regrets over the years, but I don't think you will regret the decision to take custody of her.


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## Waits4Mr.Right

UPDATE: So it's been 2 weeks and 1 day since the state took custody of my daughter. She is now is staying in a group home with ten other girls. My granddaughter is currently in foster care, which was NOT part of the original plan but my daughter didn't want the baby left with me. ;( At first I felt heart broken (and still do) that my child would trust a complete stranger with her daughter, my granddaughter. Now, I'm just angry! My daughter kept threatening that this is what she would do and now she finally accomplished her mission. To hurt me in the worst way possible, knowing full well that I would have NEVER hurt that baby. That baby is loved by me as if it were my own. SS knows that I'm safe with the baby but didn't want to over ride my daughters' decition thinking it would cause more friction between us. My daughter was the one that they are the most concerned with. She couldn't be left alone with the baby befor leaving my home and now is only allowed supervised visits twice a week. I go to the meetings also as well, IF my daughter says it's ok because thats the only time I get to see the baby as well. It just boggles my mind that a FOURTEEN year old has this much power. SS says that the baby can come back home when my daughter does. They are saying it will be at least a couple of months befor this happens though.

For these last couple of weeks I've deep cleaning my home, working, going to the gym and just trying to stay as busy as I can. Trying to clear my head to think clearly without all the anger about this situation... Bottom line is, I don't want my daughter to come home at all. I'm done. Losing the baby was the last straw. I think cutting out my heart would have been less painful. If the state says I have to take back my daughter, than I'll have no choice BUT the baby is out of the question. I won't go through losing her a second time and my daughter has made it clear that, I will never see her baby once she's 16 and moves out. ((Sign!)) Why my daughter hates me so, I'm not sure. I haven't told SS my decition yet because they'll just say that we need counceling and it'll get better. I've heard the song and dance before. So I'll jump through their hoops and when it comes time to start moving back home, I'll tell them I won't take the baby. Either way, I've lost her anyhow and I don't want to get any closer to the baby just to have her snatched away in a year if not sooner. As for custody, SS says that my daughter has to be willing to give her up.
As for the guy that raped my daughter? Oh yeah, he get's a free ride back to Mexico. You really got to love the system! I completely understand how an unstable person could shoot their abuser dead with a sentance like that. What happen to justice?? Doesn't anybody care???


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