# Honestly, Who should initiate?



## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

This is not "who initiates? " but "Who should initiate?" My friend is upset that in the two years that they have been married her husband waits till she initiates. He does not initiate himself but once his wife does, he is very happy to provide. She thinks that means he does not find her attractive. I don't know his side of the story because I have not asked him and I am not going to either. 

But does it really matter who initiates.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Whoever's feeling it. 

I mean, really, how complicated to we need to make this?


I fully agree that both spouses should be very active in demonstrating that they find their partner desirable. But initiation is not the only way to do this. One will not likely respond enthusiastically if they don't think their partner is attractive, so even response can demonstrate this. It's up to the two to communicate and help their partner understand their personal and interpersonal dynamics. 

I do sympathize with women who aren't on the receiving end of regular initiation though, especially since we're still stereotyped as men as pursuers and women as the pursued. That can be hard to overcome. Even when my wife wasn't particularly responsive, I would initiate just to keep her aware I was highly attracted to her.


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## Annabegins (Aug 10, 2018)

Totally matters. It should go both ways so both parties feel attractive and desired by their partner. It is typically men who initiate more though, so I am sure that only adds to her feeling of inadequacy. Being the one to constantly initiate is kinda exhausting and takes some of the fun out of it IMO. Has she had an honest discussion with him about her feelings around this?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

MaiChi said:


> This is not "who initiates? " but "Who should initiate?" My friend is upset that in the two years that they have been married her husband waits till she initiates. He does not initiate himself but once his wife does, he is very happy to provide. She thinks that means he does not find her attractive. I don't know his side of the story because I have not asked him and I am not going to either.
> 
> But does it really matter who initiates.


Is this the same friend who worried that all divorced men eventually sleep with their ex wives,or the friend who told you sleeping naked with your husband was a sign of weakness and you should be more assertive in your marriage and turn your husband down more often when he wants sex?
Who cares who initiates as long as you aren’t being turned down.Your friend seems to be looking for problems where there aren’t any.
Yet.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> Is this the same friend who worried that all divorced men eventually sleep with their ex wives,or the friend who told you sleeping naked with your husband was a sign of weakness and you should be more assertive in your marriage and turn your husband down more often when he wants sex?
> Who cares who initiates as long as you aren’t being turned down.Your friend seems to be looking for problems where there aren’t any.
> 
> Yet.


No. This is a much younger friend. I did ask why it bothered her that he wait for her. She thinks it means he does not find her attractive. Does he seem to like it when you ask? Yes he does. So why are you bothered? Every household has its own methods of doing things. In yours you ask and your husband provides. In another both ask. In another the husband asks. 
What does it matter? 

I want to think I am desired. she says. 

How can she be helped?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

There is no should


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Testosterone levels in men and an imbalance of hormone production in both men and women will affect any answer to this question. Also affecting it will be life experiences, presence of illness or infirmity, and emotional well-being in the moment and long-term. There is no one true answer.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

A dynamic that you read about here on TAM is where the husband starts off initiating and his wife pretty consistently rejects his advances. After some period of time, the husband is hurt too much by all the rejection, or just refuses to play into that game, and stops initiating. Then the wives sometimes complain that they are no longer pursued.

If I was being consistently rejected, I would stop making the effort too. I would see it as someone playing games with me (liking being pursued, but being rejected). 

Could your friend be guilty of this? Or possibly providing sex but complaining about his technique, his sex drive (if it's substantially stronger than hers), and/or when he approaches her sex?



MaiChi said:


> No. This is a much younger friend. I did ask why it bothered her that he wait for her. She thinks it means he does not find her attractive. Does he seem to like it when you ask? Yes he does. So why are you bothered? Every household has its own methods of doing things. In yours you ask and your husband provides. In another both ask. In another the husband asks.
> What does it matter?
> 
> I want to think I am desired. she says.
> ...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> There is no should


Not sure what you are saying here but I'll agree. If the male partner initiates, it's sexual harassment. If the female partner initiates she's too forward or just ****ty. So yes, neither partner should initiate. And since any sex is possibly rape they also should avoid that. In fact they should probably live in different communities and never interact.


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## Annabegins (Aug 10, 2018)

So I think what personofinterest is saying is that the word should, as in who SHOULD initiate, is incorrect terminology. As in the responsibility to initiate intimacy shouldn’t only be one persons responsibility. There is no should, because both parties are responsible for making their partner feel wanted/loved...



Mr. Nail said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > There is no should
> ...


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## Annabegins (Aug 10, 2018)

MaiChi said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> > Is this the same friend who worried that all divorced men eventually sleep with their ex wives,or the friend who told you sleeping naked with your husband was a sign of weakness and you should be more assertive in your marriage and turn your husband down more often when he wants sex?
> ...


She can be helped by having an honest conversations with her SO about her need to feel desired. If she has always been the initiator and they have an active sex life, he probably assumes that if she’s not asking for it she doesn’t want it, so he doesn’t bother trying and getting shut down. Maybe he was in a relationship before where he always got shot down. Who knows? She won’t know unless she asks.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Does he flirt or hint throughout the day? Or is he completely silent on the subject?

If he is flirting and hinting throughout the day, he may simply be waiting for her go-ahead. Some men are afraid of being rejected as another poster said. They will flirt and make passes at their wife all day long, and then not do it when in bed because they think their wife doesn't want to.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Should is a guilt trip placed on ourselves. Do or do not, but don't should on yourself. It's messy.
@Annabegins


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I personally feel like it's sad when any spouse doesn't get to have the feeling of being wanted.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm drawn to the Yoda definition, even though it completely fails here.

Do or do not, there is no try.

You see initiation is at essence a try. So initiate or initiate not , there is no try, breaks down. initiate and be accepted or initiate and be rebuffed There is no . . . . . what?

So to round out the idea: Initiate and be accepted, this you should do, but if you initiate and are rebuffed you are a criminal and you should not have. So whether or not you "should" initiate depends completely on the response to the initiation, which is mostly not in the control of the initiator.

So if a person initiates that person is certainly expressing attraction to the initiatee. The initiatee may want to feel attractive. or the initiatee may want to feel powerful, or the initiatee may feel that the initiator is creepy. Now as there is plenty of evidence that 99% of american women feel that all men over 50 years old or under six feet tall are creepy, I should Never initiate. YMMV 

You are going to jump up and say that the topic of this thread is initiation in a established relationship. It gets trickier. Now you are expected to be able to anticipate when the partner will be receptive to initiation. The experience in the relationship is supposed to make this easy, but in so many cases the more experience you have the more you realize how unpredictable your spouse is. And unless your partner is giving you the headache excuse as you walk in the door, you are left with mind reading. Now we all know that we can't read minds, so we should not be initiating. 

There is no should.
There is no time when you should.
There is should not!


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

I think it would feel weird to be in a relationship where one person always initiated, regardless of which person it was.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> I'm drawn to the Yoda definition, even though it completely fails here.
> 
> Do or do not, there is no try.
> 
> ...


The subtle complexity of the answer is difficult to grab onto. 

Look at the mess you have made by taking on the response to initiation as a reflection of yourself, rather than a reflection of your spouse. Your justification is more complicated than truth. It is what keeps anyone stuck. 

In essence, you have explained it(my Yoda post thank you) quite well.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

My husband and I go back and forth about initiating. We actually had personality profiles done on ourselves by a therapist and now we have a little bit better idea how we operate - meaning, where we both tend to be strong and where we are both less likely. 

For instance, we both have leader traits. So, we know that when we have a joint project we are working on - we now know to negotiate ahead of time who is going to be in charge of the project. And the other person agrees to follow the leader between the two of us (rather than butting heads over who is in charge.)

We are both caregivers, so we tend to fall all over each other to take care of the other. At least now that we know that, we can see this behavior somewhat humorously. (Ever seen the cartoon Chip 'n Dale? "You go first...no, no, YOU go first...no, YOU go first...okay, let's go TOGETHER.)

I do think that initiating can have an aspect to it, if a person allows this line of thinking, that the initiator is expressing excitement towards the other and, therefore, they are super attracted, and the receiving person gets a boost in their self esteem, yada yada.

Some good ideas being presented here on your topic. 

I know my husband and I will go around and 'round on this sometimes and if I didn't find him so damned adorable, I'd be annoyed with him.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

I thought it was a simple issue of if married certain things are assumed, but it now looks from all your inputs that it could be fairly complex between two spouses.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

There is a complex formula involving your birthdays and the most recent lottery number that determines who should initiate, and if you deviate from it your sex life is doomed.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

SpinyNorman said:


> There is a complex formula involving your birthdays and the most recent lottery number that determines who should initiate, and if you deviate from it your sex life is doomed.


Oh crap.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

Whoever wants to f*** first should initiate.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

The person with spontaneous desire should initiate. If that is both of you, then you are too busy having sex to waste time posting on this forum. If that is only 1 of you, that person should initiate whenever they feel like having sex. If that is neither of you, then you can take turns, flip a coin, draw lots, etc.

A person with responsive desire should strive to be gracious when asked if they cannot be coaxed into consenting.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MaiChi said:


> I want to think I am desired. she says.
> 
> How can she be helped?


Perhaps this is one of those situations to where he plays coy, subtlety drops hints and does everything super smooth until her panties hit the floor, but she never realizes that it was him that setup the whole moment. 



Badsanta


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

2ntnuf said:


> Should is a guilt trip placed on ourselves. Do or do not, but don't should on yourself. It's messy.
> @Annabegins


Is this a Yoda quote


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> I'm drawn to the Yoda definition, even though it completely fails here.
> 
> Do or do not, there is no try.
> 
> ...


This seems really over complicated to me. You initiate and get rebuffed, oh well she's not in the mood tonight. If this happens over and over and over, far more so than it is accepted, you have a problem and you either need to find the balance between your sex drives or figure out why she is not feeling it with you and work on that. 

Very few couples are going to have exactly equal sex drives some are close enough that going with the LD persons frequency works fine and doesn't cause problems, if theres a big difference you are going to have issues of some kind.

But you'll have nothing but problems if you don't communicate about it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Is this a Yoda quote


I have no idea if Yoda said that or not. What I do know is, I learned it many years ago in counseling. It has proven itself to be correct over time. It's damn hard not to tell yourself you should have done something, instead of accepting you did not do it. Telling yourself you should have, only makes yourself nervous and worried. When the fact is, you didn't do whatever and those are the facts. Nothing you can change about what happened. Going forward, do better.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

The wife should look pretty and smell nice, but hubby should always make the first move.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

CatholicDad said:


> The wife should look pretty and smell nice, but hubby should always make the first move.


Why?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

When a group of fanatics go to the trouble to change the rules. When they convince society at large that that is the right way. Then you can safely assume that that is what they want. Society wants no initiation. If there are some whimpering ninny's out there that now feel unattractive that is acceptable collateral damage, Besides there is plenty of evidence that they never felt attractive before the rule change. 
@CatholicDad , there is simply no way you can justify anyone initiating under your religious rules.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Another slur against my religion but I promise I enjoy sex with my wife probably more than 99% of men. In fact, I've numerous times risked pregnancy and conceived children just because I wanted Mrs. CD so bad. Yeah, I'm now raising those kiddos too 😉

It's just the man's job to initiate, kind of like gassing the car! If she hints or says she misses me, that's the code word that I should make a move! Or a smile for no reason, etc... There are many code words 😉 and I listen carefully.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Another slur against my religion but I promise I enjoy sex with my wife probably more than 99% of men. In fact, I've numerous times risked pregnancy and conceived children just because I wanted Mrs. CD so bad. Yeah, I'm now raising those kiddos too 😉
> 
> It's just the man's job to initiate, kind of like gassing the car! If she hints or says she misses me, that's the code word that I should make a move! Or a smile for no reason, etc... There are many code words 😉 and I listen carefully.


Not every couple has to interact in code.

And huh what? It's a man's job to put gas in the car? I actually find that statement offensive.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Not every couple has to interact in code.
> 
> And huh what? It's a man's job to put gas in the car? I actually find that statement offensive.


I'm pretty sure that's the way Jesus wanted it. Only the men fed the donkey.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Fozzie, I'm pretty sure Jesus is happy either way but let's see you breastfeed the babies and Livie, I doubt you could barehand the lid off a jar of pickles lol.


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

All you need to do is break the seal with a knife and a jar will give it up for anyone, man woman or child.


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

Holdingontoit said:


> The person with spontaneous desire should initiate. If that is both of you, then you are too busy having sex to waste time posting on this forum. If that is only 1 of you, that person should initiate whenever they feel like having sex. If that is neither of you, then you can take turns, flip a coin, draw lots, etc.
> 
> A person with responsive desire should strive to be gracious when asked if they cannot be coaxed into consenting.


I have responsive desire but I still initiate. It's just coming from my head rather than my body. I know I'll enjoy it once we get going, so I initiate. 

My husband does initiate more though. Probably a 70/30 split.


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Another slur against my religion but I promise I enjoy sex with my wife probably more than 99% of men. In fact, I've numerous times risked pregnancy and conceived children just because I wanted Mrs. CD so bad. Yeah, I'm now raising those kiddos too 😉
> 
> It's just the man's job to initiate, kind of like gassing the car! If she hints or says she misses me, that's the code word that I should make a move! Or a smile for no reason, etc... There are many code words 😉 and I listen carefully.


It's really nice of you to be ok with 99% of men having sex with your wife. It's a shame they don't enjoy it much.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

My wife doesn't like to initiate. She prefers a more gender stereotype role of being pursued. She's attracted to masculinity, confidence, and in the right situation dominance turns her on. It's only frustrating because I want it more than her so I'd rather she just tell me when she's up for it rather than feel like I'm pestering her and getting subtle rejections.

However, after finally discussing this with her she's now a little better at showing me that she's attracted to me and wants me to pursue her and up for it. She's being better at indicating the green light or red light so to speak but no, she won't ever just jump in my lap and seduce me. I think many years ago when her sex drive was higher she did occasionally put on something sexy and seduce me when it had been a while. That was a real treat and out of her norm. But getting there did take me specifically asking her to work with me on spicing things up.

I also think that in a lot of relationships there's a complancy. One gets used to the other letting them know when they want it so they just wait for it and never initiate. It takes a really long dry spell to get the non-initiator do do anything.

So to the OP. It's gonna take a talk. She needs to ask him in a constructive way to initiate once in a while. In past relationships before my wife I had a few with women that were quite aggressive and I almost never had to initiate, then again I don't think my motives were ever unclear about wanting it as much as possible. It really didn't occur to me that they might want me to initiate more.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Violet28 said:


> Whoever wants to f*** first should initiate.



Took it out of my mouth.
Guy thinks: “risk of rejection is too high, I just wait till she initiated since I’m always in the mood anyway”
Girl thinks: “he doesn’t find me ****able anymore!”

Why don’t they talk about it?? (After sex).

I used to be more old fashioned: I used to think the guy should always initiate. But if rejections are too frequent (an assumption), then maybe he feels risk of rejection is too high. 

But ideally anyone should initiate, and nobody should reject. And rainbows should appear on demand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> The wife should look pretty and smell nice,






Livvie said:


> And huh what? It's a man's job to put gas in the car? I actually find that statement offensive.



Why? Otherwise she might smell of gas and that’s not nice.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Whoever wants it should. I am more of a pick up and carry to the bedroom. My GF is much more sly seductress. When I purposely don’t take bait though she will eventually pounce on me which in and of itself is a huge turn on.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> Why? Otherwise she might smell of gas and that’s not nice.


LOL. Why would she smell of gas? Is she spraying it all over her? I've never had that problem.


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## JamesTKirk (Sep 8, 2015)

I think whoever wants it should initiate. However, I think it's certainly considerate to offer to your spouse to initiate once in a while for a change just so they know they're wanted.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

To women who want men to initiate more . . .
To women who think that men doing all of the initiation is gender stereotypical. . . . 
To women who like confident assertive men and who feel that initiating is the best way to show it . . .
To women who want to be pursued . . . 

1) Take your frying pan over to your #me too friends and smack them upside the head for creating a system where you can't have what you want. And

2) Any rejection rate over 25% is going to wreck your mans confidence, assertiveness, and likely libedo. So don't create a condition where you can't get what you want.

Disclaimer: I'm certain that the same applies to men but my imagination is a bit weak today.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Dusk said:


> It's really nice of you to be ok with 99% of men having sex with your wife. It's a shame they don't enjoy it much.


LOL that was my exact thought when reading his post. 

and huge kudos to you for your attitude towards initiating. Your husband has found a woman who is committed to having a healthy and happy marriage.


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

I also read it as he enjoyed sex with his wife more than with all but 1% of men. That 1% tho...


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Dusk said:


> I also read it as he enjoyed sex with his wife more than with all but 1% of men. That 1% tho...


lol :toast:


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

PigglyWiggly said:


> LOL that was my exact thought when reading his post.


I thought the same thing as well. Yet I do wonder why he enjoys sex with his wife so much, when 99% of the other men aren't so impressed. Is he settling for less?


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Personal said:


> I thought the same thing as well. Yet I do wonder why he enjoys sex with his wife so much, when 99% of the other men aren't so impressed. Is he settling for less?


Somehow, it's porn related :grin2:


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Y'all are just jealous... Your porn has made you (or your hubby) lazy. Porn free men ALWAYS initiate... that's the honest truth.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Y'all are just jealous... Your porn has made you (or your hubby) lazy. *Porn free men ALWAYS initiate*... that's the honest truth.


those kids will back you up on that claim. Win for CatholicDad! :smthumbup:


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

When he worked during the day and I worked during the night, we had a written schedule for sex. You arrive home knowing you are going to have sex with your husband before he goes to work. 
There is no real need to wait for initiation if you both know the time you have for sex. 

If it is a problem why not just agree to have sex on certain days, then the initiator is fully aware that he/she will be accepted. 

I do find it a little hard that two people have sex between them but they are unable to talk about how they feel about it and have to almost write a psychology book about what their behaviours mean to each other. Why are the two married if they cannot talk together? Why not invent a method of communication unique to them ? 
I am just ranting, sorry.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Another slur against my religion but I promise I enjoy sex with my wife probably more than 99% of men. In fact, I've numerous times risked pregnancy and conceived children just because I wanted Mrs. CD so bad. Yeah, I'm now raising those kiddos too 😉
> 
> It's just the man's job to initiate, kind of like gassing the car! If she hints or says she misses me, that's the code word that I should make a move! Or a smile for no reason, etc... There are many code words 😉 and I listen carefully.


Well if you know that her hints/saying she misses you/a smile for no reason means "you should make a move!", then she has already initiated. So apparently it's not always the man's job to initiate, even in your house. 

Sounds like you are taking credit for something you didn't actually start.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I'll take credit for over initiating through most of our marriage and so now struggle to try and be a gentleman. In fact, I've pretty much taken advantage of my wife's kindness hundreds of times more than I should have by going for sex at bad times, when she's exhausted, having a bad day, etc. I'm getting marginally wiser and now try to only make a move when I think she's up for it... It's a bit of a game: having young children, a fertile woman, and being Catholic which means no artificial birth control so my opportunities are limited, but I love it and wouldn't change it except for the part of marriage where I was a jacka$$.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Whoever's hormones is at work should be the initiator!

And unless, of course, it's a national emergency or a serious health issue, rejection by the courted party should be totally off of the table!*


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> It's a bit of a game: having young children, a fertile woman, and being Catholic which means no artificial birth control so my opportunities are limited.....


I just couldn't imagine EVER having lackluster sex with a religious fanatic like CD when the price tag FOR that mediocre sex is spitting out yet *ANOTHER* kid to add my already existing litter of kids. Besides the Duggars, who the hell does that?

If that's what being Catholic is, you can keep it. Ugh.


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

Easy question.
Both of you should. That's how we do it. Might be me, might be her, might be both at the same time. 
No rules on who does it more often than the other. Makes no difference.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Lurkster said:


> Easy question.
> Both of you should. That's how we do it. Might be me, might be her, might be both at the same time.
> No rules on who does it more often than the other. Makes no difference.


Would you say it is a good idea to allocated days. For example, if he takes Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and she takes Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Saturday left for whoever as it is always more likely sex will happen on Saturday night. Whoever has the day, leads out. My parents in law have this in their house, I found out. I did not want to ask too much about it but my mother in law says it is the best method, because you will not argue about sex or feel left out.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > It's a bit of a game: having young children, a fertile woman, and being Catholic which means no artificial birth control so my opportunities are limited.....
> ...


Each kid of mine is infinitely precious and if you saw any of them you'd admit they're beautiful. That's what being Catholic is... and the sex is great and meaningful.

Sex for you I'm sure is just a cheap game.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

CatholicDad said:


> Each kid of mine is infinitely precious and if you saw any of them you'd admit they're beautiful. That's what being Catholic is... and the sex is great and meaningful.
> 
> *Sex for you I'm sure is just a cheap game.*


Since I don't gamble (religiously) That's the only kind of game I play.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

MaiChi said:


> Would you say it is a good idea to allocated days. For example, if he takes Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and she takes Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Saturday left for whoever as it is always more likely sex will happen on Saturday night. Whoever has the day, leads out. My parents in law have this in their house, I found out. I did not want to ask too much about it but my mother in law says it is the best method, because you will not argue about sex or feel left out.


Wow, someone has actually implemented my "trade units of time" approach. Thanks for sharing this.


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

MaiChi said:


> Would you say it is a good idea to allocated days. For example, if he takes Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and she takes Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Saturday left for whoever as it is always more likely sex will happen on Saturday night. Whoever has the day, leads out. My parents in law have this in their house, I found out. I did not want to ask too much about it but my mother in law says it is the best method, because you will not argue about sex or feel left out.


Well, we don't, but if that is what works for you, why not? 
We very much spontaneous. A poke or a grab....turns into a _pke & a lot a grabs!_ We have never been regimented or disciplined with a schedule when it comes to sex. We prefer to look for those targets of opportunity! 

Like anything else....try it. If you like it, good. If you don't, try something else. We know a couple like that. They have a 'ladies choice night', and things like that.


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