# Any experience with NFP (natural family planning)?



## vrja (Dec 30, 2008)

My husband and I have been married for 2 years.
We practice NFP but it is becoming increasingly frustrating for both of us. After having a baby this February it has taken almost 10 mos. for my cycles to regulate which has resulted in a less than consistent sex life. 
I KNOW he is ready to give up NFP but I'm not. I offered to make a counseling apt. tonight and he agreed. We are both getting our feelings hurt a lot lately. Seems like everyday one of us says something that hurts the other one.


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## humpty dumpty (Nov 26, 2008)

have you any reason why you cant use comdoms untill your cycle regulates?
having a baby puts a great strain on relationships and you need to re focus on being a married couple as well as mum and dad


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Yes! And now we have 3 wonderful kids 

The problem with NFP is that you aren't allowed to have sex when the woman is most fertile. But that is when the woman is putting out the maximum hormones and pheromones to attract the male. So the man wants sex extra bad, when NFP dictates he must not do it! So it will put him under tremendous strain. Mother nature does not care about your plans, she wants to maximise the population.

In the end we resorted to condoms after the 3rd child - I could not afford any more! My view is that NFP can space children, but it seldom stops them.

However, we have stopped using condoms and are using a different method now. I practice semen retention. We have sex most days, but I only ejaculate once per month, and not in her - well not her vagina any way 

I have to say, she is 46 now and not as fertile. Her periods only last two days (praise the Lord  ) *I am not putting forward semen retention as a contraceptive method*. However my belief is that if 100 couples practised semen retention for a year in the way that we do, only a handful would get pregnant. So it's a way of reducing the odds, *not *eliminating them.

No proper study of this method has been done that I know of, mostly because men can't imagine how they could enjoy sex without ejaculation. I actually enjoy it more. I wrote about it here: Semen Retention
There is anecdotal evidence that it reduces conception. In America, the Oneida community only had less unplanned births during it's existence than would be normal, which considering what they were up to is amazing. See: Oneida Community - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia see the heading Male continence.

Remember there is sperm in pre-cum so even though a man can train himself not to cum, he can't easily stop the leaking of sperm.


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## Batrice (Dec 31, 2008)

It can take awhile to really appreciate NFP. I don't expect that you have had to abstain much during fertile times, due to your pregnancy. Why don't you check out the resources at The Gift Foundation: - The Gift Foundation -

There is a series of talks, one about the harms of the birth control pill, one about Scriptural supports for NFP, and the last one is a witness talk by a man--this last one in particular might be helpful for your husband. 

Also, you may want to check out the talks under the "Sacrament of Marriage Seminar".

I myself am in my postpartum time after my first baby. She is almost 5 months old, and my cycles have not returned. It is relatively easy, however, to distinguish signs of returning fertility. And, remember, you do not need to have regular cycles to practice NFP. I am a trained NFP instructor--I will be glad to talk to you about your cycles in an effort to reduce the number of days you are abstaining (please email me at [email protected]) 

It can be hard at times to abstain, especially if a couple has used contraceptives in the past and had access to intercourse whenever they wanted. But, NFP is about maintaining the integrity/nature of the marital act, and the spouses making a complete gift of self. Couples reevaluate monthly whether they have a good reason to abstain. Therefore, the lines of communication stay open--this communication affects all areas of marriage which could be stumbling blocks, because these same areas affect your choice to have another child (finances, physical and mental health, social responsibilities, etc.). Couples need to be sure their reason for abstaining is good, that it is a greater gift to abstain for that cycle than it would be to come together and possibly create life. Consider the other benefits of NFP as a method of family planning: no side effects, no harm to future fertility, indication of health, the honeymoon effect when intercourse is available after abstaining, etc. 

My best to you in your continued practice of NFP.


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## Batrice (Dec 31, 2008)

An excellent talk discussing your concerns exactly is:
"When NFP is Too Hard", can be accessed at 
CCL - Convention 2008 Main Talks
It is the fourth talk down. The speaker, Greg Popcak, Ph.D, mentions his telephone counseling service--you can learn more about that on his website at: Pastoral Solutions Institute: Tele-Counseling Services

I feel these resources will be really helpful for you!


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## Batrice (Dec 31, 2008)

Finally, I want to recommend one last (short) article for anyone practicing NFP who is struggling with continence: 

Does NFP Put a Strain on Marriage?
by Herbert F. Smith, S.J.

This can be accessed at Does NFP Put a Strain on Marriage?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I think NFP can be used to space the arrival of children quite easily. But I doubt anyone would say it is guaranteed to work for any specific couple.

It is my belief that the female body is so intent on getting pregnant, that it will deliberately start mixing the cycle round in order to "catch out" the unwitting couple.

But in my experience we had the best of everything. Several years with no contraception, followed by 12 years of condoms, followed by no contraception again.

I was so scared of conception after kid #3 that we only did it without a condom 2 or 3 times in 12 years. Once was 1 day after a period, and I think the other 2 times were 3 thrusts, and then I put on a condom 

We also tried mutual manual techniques which can be fun. I always wonder why NFPers don't make more of manual stimulation... do they think it's against God?


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Yes! And now we have 3 wonderful kids
> 
> The problem with NFP is that you aren't allowed to have sex when the woman is most fertile. But that is when the woman is putting out the maximum hormones and pheromones to attract the male. So the man wants sex extra bad, when NFP dictates he must not do it! So it will put him under tremendous strain. Mother nature does not care about your plans, she wants to maximise the population.
> 
> ...


Horray for semen retention! :smthumbup: I practice that too!

There are two reasons why a couple would want to use NFP:
1) Religious convictions
2) Lack of money for condoms
In the UK, you can go to a clinic and get a packet of name-brand condoms, a few packets of silicon-based lube, some flavoured condoms, some dental dams and some extra strong condoms in a packet... for free! It's all part of the government's plans to reduce unwanted pregnancies and STDs. I realise this doesn't help you Americans, but I guess then most people in the UK don't practice NFP.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Alex_Fider said:


> Horray for semen retention! :smthumbup: I practice that too!


According to your profile, you have no need of contraception sir 

But semen retention is certainly fun. What level do you take it to?


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## Wyst (Dec 27, 2008)

hehe - three cheers for the convicted who make this work!

NFP ended up with us having a honeymoon conception - the eldest. We gave up after that. Change of altitude and play havoc with plans and interpretting the signs when you new to it.

Our third was conceived while I was on the Pill, but i got caught out by a stomache bug.

The 7 year gap between the eldest and the second represents about 3 years being on the Pill, the remainder not, and one very early on miscarriage (8 weeks) which I will never forget. We had just moved house when it started on the Friday. The dance group was due to dance on the Sunday at church. I danced, tears streaming, knowing I was dancing as I miscarried, and no-one else knew - bar the H. 

Man proposes - God disposes.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> According to your profile, you have no need of contraception sir


Well, that's certainly true, but retention has other advantages.



> But semen retention is certainly fun. What level do you take it to?


Level? Well, I retain every time, except about once every 3/4 weeks. This means, I can have 2 or 3 orgasms a night, and my sex drive is high so I can do it every day.  Most guys fail to seperate orgasm from ejaculation, but if you can do this, it does wonders! Multiple orgasms are not just for the ladies.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I am on a similar schedule 

But I don't bother with the dry orgasms - I tried, but still found they left me with a bit of a come-down, and very hard to master also.

I can also clench if I don't manage to stop orgasm in time - to the point where nothing comes out - but I don't feel this is particularly healthy, so I don't do that often. My wife loves to make fun of the look on my face when I do this, it look like I am trying to stop the world ending 

Instead I get myself to just below the "point of no return", and just more or less stay there, until one of us has had enough.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> I am on a similar schedule
> 
> But I don't bother with the dry orgasms - I tried, but still found they left me with a bit of a come-down, and very hard to master also.
> 
> ...


Hmmm... sex without orgams? That souds a bit... odd. But horses for courses and all that! :smthumbup: And yes dry orgasms take a while to master. To do it without clenching takes a lot of practice, I had to practice it masturbating for a while first.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Alex_Fider-

At first I missed ejaculation, but after several weeks of not cumming, it all changed. Now every thrust feels like luxury. Orgasm is so fast, I can't follow it. 

A while ago, I got up to six weeks, and she was on top - normally I don't get a lot out of this position. But I was screaming and shouting and thrashing about like my life depended on it. On that occasion, I accidentally came in the end, I just lost all control. But even then, the ride was better than the destination.


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## Batrice (Dec 31, 2008)

Manual stimulation--do NFPers think it's against God?

I'll try to be brief...

The major difference between NFP and Fertility Awareness Based Methods of family planning is abstinence during the fertile time vs. acceptance of the use of barrier methods, respectively, if pregnancy is to be avoided. 

Abstinence, as opposed to barriers, is usually motivated by religious reasons. Primarily Catholics, but now also several Protestant groups, teach that every sexual act is meant to be a renewal of the marriage vows--meaning that every act must be free, total, faithful, and fruitful.

Free--spouses should not manipulate or coerce each other into having sex; sex should not be used as a "reward" or withheld as a "punishment"; when viewed as a compulsive "need", the decision to have sex is not a free one

Total--mutual climax reflects unreserved surrender to and receptivity of the other in an act of total self-giving, when the act of intercourse is complete; if the wife does not reach climax at the same time as her husband, it would be the loving thing for the husband to stimulate her to climax after the act of intercourse (if she desired)--this stimulation would not be masturbatory because it is within the context of a completed act of intercourse--meaning that the husband ejaculates within the wife. 

Faithful--There is no place for fantasy about someone else or pornography during sex between spouses.

Fruitful--every act of intercourse must remain open to the possibility of pregnancy, meaning that spouses should not do anything to close the act to the transmission of life. 

So, NFPers simply take advantage of the naturally infertile times to responsibly plan their families, abstaining during fertile times. They make a complete gift of themselves to each other in every act of intercourse, because they do nothing to alter the nature of the act. Manual stimulation is acceptable as foreplay to a completed act of intercourse, implying that the husband always ejaculates within the wife. Contracepted sex and mutual masturbation are unacceptable because they are not acts which meet the above conditions--therefore they do not renew the marriage vows.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Batrice said:


> Fruitful--every act of intercourse must remain open to the possibility of pregnancy, meaning that spouses should not do anything to close the act to the transmission of life.
> 
> So, NFPers simply take advantage of the naturally infertile times to responsibly plan their families, abstaining during fertile times. They make a complete gift of themselves to each other in every act of intercourse, because they do nothing to alter the nature of the act. Manual stimulation is acceptable as foreplay to a completed act of intercourse, implying that the husband always ejaculates within the wife. Contracepted sex and mutual masturbation are unacceptable because they are not acts which meet the above conditions--therefore they do not renew the marriage vows.


Who makes these rules?



> Fruitful--every act of intercourse must remain open to the possibility of pregnancy, meaning that spouses should not do anything to close the act to the transmission of life.
> .
> .
> .
> So, NFPers simply take advantage of the naturally infertile times to responsibly plan their families, abstaining during fertile times.


These two statements are contradictory: If you are convinced conception won't take place, at a certain time, having sex would not be expected to be "fruitful".

Mine and my wife's reasons for using NFP were mostly to do with not wanting to pollute our bodies with drugs and toxins. Having said that, she was going through a bit of a Catholic phase at the time - and I was a raving Happy Clappy


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Alex_Fider-
> 
> At first I missed ejaculation,


Indeed! It does feel weird when you try it for the first few times.



> but after several weeks of not cumming, it all changed. Now every thrust feels like luxury. Orgasm is so fast, I can't follow it.
> 
> A while ago, I got up to six weeks, and she was on top - normally I don't get a lot out of this position. But I was screaming and shouting and thrashing about like my life depended on it. On that occasion, I accidentally came in the end, I just lost all control. But even then, the ride was better than the destination.


Six weeks? Darn, my record's only five. The reason I end up doing it is because I usually loose control.

Are you a Christian, MarkTwain?


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## Batrice (Dec 31, 2008)

Yes, NFPers who are avoiding pregnancy abstain during the fertile time. They may have the same end in mind as a contracepting couple, but the means is different. NFPers DO NOTHING (emphasis) to render an act of intercourse infertile, meaning they use no barriers and they do not suppress the woman's fertility or have a tubal/vasectomy. They take advantage of our cycles as God made them--we know by logic that every act of intercourse will not be fruitful. But the nature of the act is that it was designed for spousal union AND procreation. So, anything that physically eliminates the procreative aspect is not an option. Also, logic tells us that we need to responsibly plan our families. Sure, it''s not always easy to abstain, but NFPers are very aware of the other aspects of love/communication that a couple can focus on while abstaining (Spiritual/Intellectual/Emotional/etc.), and they choose to have self-mastery over their sexual urge in favor of the greater gift at that time of abstaining. 

The Popes of the Roman Catholic Church have written several documents addressing sexual morality. One very short one getting a lot of attention now because of its 40th anniversary is Humanae Vitae ("Of Human Life"), written in 1968 by Pope Paul VI, on the regulation of birth. If you or anyone wants to read it, it is a fairly quick and easy to follow read. It can be accessed at:

Humanae Vitae - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Paul VI on the regulation of birth, 25 July 1968


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Alex_Fider-

My story is in this thread:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relationships-spirituality/2139-i-m-spiritual-boulder-road.html

Posts 9 & 11


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