# Did I really cheat??



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

A little background. We first got together in High school. I (M) am two years older, despite the expected ups and downs and against the odds, we stayed together and eventually married. At this time I (M) was 28 and she was 26. 
I always supported her, not just financially but in her decisions regarding her future. 

After she passed her A levels she had the opportunity to go to oxford university, which I pushed her to accept. In the end she decided to reject that offer and stay closer to home. I knew at the time that it would more than likely mean the end of us, if she went to oxford but ultimately it was her choice. 

Move forward a few years and I the opportunity to invest in a restaurant and to leave a well paid job but one i hated. 

During the the next 12 months we moved to a bigger house, got married, our son was born and I opened up the restaurant. 

During these 12 months of massive change, she never wanted me to leave the job I hated so much and open up the restaurant. I did and still do understand her reservations against me opening the restaurant, although unfounded!!

So getting to my point...
I hated my job as a contractor, working on construction sites and wanted to change as soon as I could. When I had the chance and was financially secure I wanted her support in the same way as I had supported her. 
Instead, even after endless talking she never wanted me to do it. The main reason being that I would cheat on her. Even thought I understood where she was coming from, I thought it unfair that she would rather me stay in a job I hated and was unhappy with. 

So to cut to the chance, we got married and pregnant on our Honeymoon. Moved to the fantastic new house and I set up and opened the restaurant, my dream job. During this time I was accused of cheating with just about every female member of staff that I employed. 

After a year of accusations and many arguments I couldn’t take anymore. I k ow I played into her hands but eventually I’d had enough. One night I ended up kissing a girl that worked for me!!! I know how bad that sounds!!

The next day I felt that, for that to happen I had crossed the line and left my wife. 
She has always stated that I’d cheated on her and it was all my fault that this happened. 

I know technically it could be classed as cheating but in my own mind, I don’t agree as I’d had to endure the Best part of 12 months of false accusations!! 
As far as I know neither of us had ever slept with anyone else at this point. The fact that I left the day after kissing this girl was compounding how bad our relationship had gotten. 

So after months of accusations and my following actions, am I wrong to think it’s unfair to say I cheated??


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Cheating is betraying the exclusivity of your marriage, and that's precisely what you did. So yes, you cheated.

You and your wife are fighting over this, because you think having a career you love is more important than your marriage. While she believes the opposite. That's why she gave up Oxford to be with you, while you discarded her feelings in order to pursue your restaurant.


----------



## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

You cheated. RESENTMENT RULED YOUR LIFE. Leave if the marriage is over, then you are free. Kissed because you wanted to. You left because YOU wanted to. Got revenge of a sort for her accusations--i.e. I'll show you.

Act like you choose to act in life. DO NOT react to others--that gives them power over you.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Yes, you are wrong. And further...you gave her the proof that she was right all along. What a shame 

It's unfortunate that she didn't trust you when you were not doing anything wrong. Not being trusted by your partner feels horrible. I do feel for you having to deal with that. But that doesn't mean that kissing another woman isn't cheating...it is.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Did you cheat?

In states that allow for cheating/adultery to be used as the cause of for a divorce, what you did not adultery. That requires actual sex.

Did you break the agreement of fidelity between you and your wife? Sure sounds like it.

Your excuse that you were just tired of your wife's accusations is just nonsense. You did it because you wanted to. Man up and own your behavior.

IMO, your wife was wrong in her objection to you changing jobs as long as it was not a risky thing for you to do. I can get objection to not wanting support something that would cause financial instability. But I don't understand her thinking that she has the right to tell you what career you will pursue when it has no negative effect on the finances. Plus, she can get a job and help support the family.

Then add to all this her constantly accusing you of cheating. Are you a big flirt? What's the basis of her accusations?

If I was married to someone who did what your wife did, I would be very likely to leave them. There would have to be a lot of other good things in the relationship for me to accept what you say she was doing. 

It sounds like you have good reason to be upset with her. But there really is not an excuse for your kissing some woman at work. Is she an employee? Way to screw up your work environment. 

If you and your wife are going to try to fix your marriage the two of you need to get into counseling.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Who told our wife that you kissed the other woman? Did you?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I think its very odd that she didn't want you to open a restaurant because she thought you may cheat??? Either she is very paranoid and jealous or she had reason to think you may, say if you are a flirt or in the past you have done something similar. 
Anyway kissing someone else is very wrong yes, but so were her constant false accusations which paint a picture of some serious issues that she has. 
So have you left her and your child for good? If not I would suggest some marriage counselling.


----------



## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

BBTL, So you feel like you are vindicated, because it was only a kiss. Come on dude, if your wife did this to you with one of your best looking contractor buddies. Held her close and tight squeezing her body parts. What would you think would you be cool with that? If you think it would be no big thing, then your just trying to rationalize it and minimize it. Then your putting up your dream job/business in the dumpster.

Your, by your own words come here to seek validation, by minimizing it. Not going to sell that here. You have no boundaries, and personal fulfillment is your only desire. How about some empathy for your wife, "So you played into her hands" huh? What a load! Is that the best you can do? Sell the restaurant give her the house, and you already wanted her to to leave you when she went to Oxford.

Own this, if you want to stand like a man. Divorce your wife and release her and spare her resentment, it's already starting to show. And as l see it you bet this is unfaithful, broken vows and all. 

Definition of unfaithful
: not faithful:
a : not adhering to vows, allegiance, or duty : DISLOYAL
an unfaithful friend
b : not faithful to marriage vows
suspected her husband of being unfaithful
c : INACCURATE, UNTRUSTWORTHY
an unfaithful copy of a document


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you did.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> A little background. We first got together in High school. I (M) am two years older, despite the expected ups and downs and against the odds, we stayed together and eventually married. At this time I (M) was 28 and she was 26.
> I always supported her, not just financially but in her decisions regarding her future.
> 
> After she passed her A levels she had the opportunity to go to oxford university, which I pushed her to accept. In the end she decided to reject that offer and stay closer to home. I knew at the time that it would more than likely mean the end of us, if she went to oxford but ultimately it was her choice.
> ...


I dont know everything. You have to explain a little where this kiss came from. I mean, you work with the person, talk everyday, maybe something was developing there? Close friendship or something? 

I mean, some people are jealous for no reason, but jealous people are usually jealous since the beggining. Jealousy comming out of nowhere is less usual.

And leave the house over a kiss??? 

I'm sure there are plenty missing parts on this little story of yours? Because its unusual of somebody leaving spouse and kid over a kiss.

I'm actually seing a pattern of a lot of blameshifting (maybe minimizing a make out section too, but thats beyond me to know) and some resentment on what you wrote. I dont know why and cant guess because I dont know any of you.

And your answer: yes, of course.


----------



## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Why not volunteer for a polygraph test? 

You didn't commit adultery - but you did cheat.

Unless it's a peck on the cheek - there's no such thing as a solid kiss with body contact.

Studies of adultery found that the 'kiss' is the last major boundary before escalating to sex.


----------



## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

you cheated

if just one kiss then offer to take a polygraph test for your BW


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Yes you cheated, but I think there are different levels of cheating.

Each person probably feels differently about these things.

TO ME

A ONS is not as bad as a long term affair

An emotional affair is worse than a ONS

Kissing is not as bad as oral sex or PIV.

For me, if my wife kissed another guy, I would be more interested in her relationship with him. Not just that she kissed him. I would want to know if the kiss came from a long emotional affair or a couple of drinks that lead to a kiss.


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

First of all I want to thank everyone for taking the time to post a reply!!
I think I can safely say that the answer to my question is a resounding yes!
TBH I’m not surprised and deep down I already knew the answer. 
I’m going to do my best in answering the questions asked in the comments. 

In asking the question, I wasn’t trying to justify my actions or trying to shift all the blame onto her for me kissing someone else. 
I would have taken a polygraph test and be100% confident of a positive result about any accusations she made about having affairs. 
I did work closely and spent a fair amount of time with the girl I ended kissing. We did talk about our personal lives at work but as friends and not in a touchy-feely flirting kind of way. 
I mentioned that the kiss was crossing the line and I had to walk away from wife. It wasn’t a light hearted decision, I had tried talking to my wife for months and months, before hand and did everything she asked to prove I wasn’t being unfaithful. To no avail and such a shame for our relationship to nose dive in a relatively short amount of time. 
Apart from not chasing a dream and staying in a job I hated, I don’t know what more I could have done?

I was the one who told my wife about the kiss and it was a hard conversation to have. 

So....... ok a kiss is cheating not a ONS or sex but a kiss. I think the reason I wanted your opinions is because I’m now labels as a cheater, regardless of the countless accusations and Situations leading up to that point. 

I’ve been told some hard truths and it is what it is!!

Appreciate the the comments. 👍🏻


----------



## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I wasn't just a kiss, you moved you heart on and it left with your body.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> A little background. We first got together in High school. I (M) am two years older, despite the expected ups and downs and against the odds, we stayed together and eventually married. At this time I (M) was 28 and she was 26.
> I always supported her, not just financially but in her decisions regarding her future.
> 
> After she passed her A levels she had the opportunity to go to oxford university, which I pushed her to accept. In the end she decided to reject that offer and stay closer to home. I knew at the time that it would more than likely mean the end of us, if she went to oxford but ultimately it was her choice.
> ...


Yep, pretty textbook cheating. How have your boundaries with women been beside that? Do you have a lot of women "friends". Do you talk to them about this stuff or other things you have been feeling in your marriage or about yourself? Have you ever cheated before, or maybe I should ask have you ever done anything physical like touching or kissing other women when you were in a committed relationship before, since you seem to have no concept of what cheating is or isn't. 

This is actually a good lesson for us here, if you had not kissed this women we probably would have all jumped to her being paranoid but the fact that you did makes me think that there probably was a lot of smoke and your wife knew it. I mean if you kissed another women and you have to ask on a board if it's cheating then you really are not a safe partner. You seem to have no idea what cheating is when it's a pretty standard example of what most people would call cheating. I suspect you have really poor boundaries to begin with. You seem to be saying yeah but she didn't want me to have my dream job as a way to excuse your actions.

Maybe she isn't a good partner but kissing someone completely undermines your credibility. Read the book Not "just friends". 

Next question where are you now, what are you going to do about it. Are you still working with the girl you cheated on you wife with?


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You know you cheated, otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread. She didn't make you do it, either. The restaurant life is a notorious infidelity scene - the high-stress work, late into the night; working side-by-side with people of the opposite sex, all acting together as a well-oiled machine. That's a heady mix and a recipe for bonding and detaching from the home life.

Your BW was aware of the dangers, which is why she has been so suspicious. And the kiss was not a one-off. You have attached emotionally to this OW enough to be intimate.

If it's your dream job, you should know a few things: Since you proved your BW correct, she can't trust you to work in your chosen profession, and, if you divorce, you need to realize that you are high-risk in terms of fidelity for any new love interest.

Your cheating is not her fault. If you robbed a bank and told the judge that you only did it because your best friend insisted for a year that you were the bankrobber type, what do you think the judge would say?


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> I did work closely and spent a fair amount of time with the girl I ended kissing. We did talk about our personal lives at work but as friends and not in a touchy-feely flirting kind of way.
> I mentioned that the kiss was crossing the line and I had to walk away from wife. It wasn’t a light hearted decision, I had tried talking to my wife for months and months, before hand and did everything she asked to prove I wasn’t being unfaithful. To no avail and such a shame for our relationship to nose dive in a relatively short amount of time.
> Apart from not chasing a dream and staying in a job I hated, I don’t know what more I could have done?


Following up on this. Now I don't know but I suspect this isn't the first women that you had this kind of relationship with while being with your wife, dating or otherwise. Here is the thing, it wasn't at the point of the kiss where you crossed the line. Most people assume as a part of your commitment you are committing your emotional fidelity as well. In opening up in the way you did for months with this girl you were already going down a slippery slop where at some point you crossed a line and were already cheating emotionally even before it became physical. I suspect your wife is probably wise enough to see where it would eventually go and that is why she was worried, and obviously rightfully so.

So no you didn't do everything she asked, you were in the midst of being emotionally unfaithful while telling her you weren't. 

Again you should read that book because a lot of it is about healthy boundaries. 

Besides that stop conflating the dream job and her fears about it with your cheating. Even if you are right an she was being controlling in preventing you from going after you dream job that not an excuse for you cheating. I mean this is like morals 101, it's what we teach our kids. Someone else's bad behavior never excuses your own bad behavior. Plus I did this terrible thing to you because you keep telling me "I am afraid you are going to do this terrible thing to you" is really bush. I mean the healthy way to deal with the accusations is to prove how wrong they are. 

Besides that maybe your wife's fear about your "dream" job was that you have a problem with boundaries and working at a job that puts you in close proximity with women for long hours in an intense environment was going to be too much of a risk to your marriage. Seems like rightfully so. Maybe it wasn't about holding you back from your dream. 

Get that book and read it. It will help you even if you can't save your marriage, but maybe it will even help you to save it.


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Who has she kissed as revenge?


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

moon7 said:


> BlindedByTheLight said:
> 
> 
> > A little background. We first got together in High school. I (M) am two years older, despite the expected ups and downs and against the odds, we stayed together and eventually married. At this time I (M) was 28 and she was 26.
> ...


I’ll try to explain in a better way and hopefully give you answers that make sense. I’m not the best at getting point across, so bare with me. 

Right from the start of looking at opening a restaurant, she freely admitted that she wasn’t happy about it and was jealous of me working with women. 
Just to be clear and to give her credit, she never once ask me to not go for it but expressed her concerns. 
Hope that makes sense??

In my mind I’m not blame shifting as I think the majority of the blame for the destruction of our relationship is on her. 
Her lack in trust and constant accusations, for the best part of a year would be difficult for most people to accept. 

I understand that might not agree but let me ask you this, before you make judgement....
Put yourself in my position and honestly ask yourself how long do think you put up that situation regardless of any efforts you made and your attempts at talking fell on deaf ears!!!
Now I want you think about how long a year, of not being trusted and unhappy, actually feels like? IMHO I gave our relationship more than a fair shot of trying to rectify her negative thoughts. I also think a lot of other people, given this situation, would have thrown the towel in a lot sooner. 

I hope that doesn’t make you think I’m a complete ****? It’s just my attempt at trying to explain regardless of if you agree or not. 

So, moving on, over this period of time the relationship steadily broke down an I became more disheartened and unhappy. I’ll just interject that I loved my wife and yes I knew she loved me!!

Getting to kiss...... in actual fact ( trying hard to put it into words), was basically the straw that broke the camels back. The kiss, in some ways wasn’t why I upped and left. By having that kiss it made me realise how desperate things had got and how unhappy I/we were. 
It definitely went against my morals and for things to get so bad that I actually crossed the line, action was needed. For my own sanity and likely hers, it was the end. 

I hated myself and was ashamed for crossing that line but I apportioned a lot of the downfall of our relationship on her. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think I’m blameless and I’m not perfect. 

The general consensus, is that yes a kiss is cheating and I’ll accept that. On its own, would a drunken kiss, not that being drunk is an excuse, would be enough to end a 15 year relationship when going through a rough patch? Possibly but probably not but not easy to get past. 

So now I’m labelled a cheater and her predictions seemed to be justified and correct as far as most people were concerned. I’m not perfect and looking back I should have handled it differently. But to have the stigma of being a cheater for that one kiss with no account of the previous 12 months being taken into consideration, I feel is a little unjust. 

I can’t deny the fact that it happened, but that kiss wasn’t what made me call it a day and leave. That kiss made realise just how broken, desperate and unhappy I was. Defeated for want of a better word!!

So is it really justifiable and fair to be labelled as a cheater for that kiss, error in judgement, even after all the accusations and lack of trust she had for me leading up to that point??

I guess that’s the reason I ask the original question. 

Sorry for the long reply but I hope gives a better insight to my question. 

I hope it helps you understand even if you don’t agree with me. 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> I’ll try to explain in a better way and hopefully give you answers that make sense.


This is full of excuses. And guess what? None of them matter. Your marriage failing is on both of you, but your cheating is 100% on you.



> In my mind I’m not blame shifting as I think the majority of the blame for the destruction of our relationship is on her.


Of course you think that! It's far easier to believe that no reasonable person could be expected to put up with such a horrible woman, than it is to admit your own faults. Most people will not accept responsibility for their contribution to the breakdown of the marriage - yourself included. Minimizing your faults and blaming the failure on your spouse is easier, and more likely to garner sympathy. Not working too well for you here, hey?

The truth is, you are BOTH responsible for the breakdown of the marriage. You are BOTH responsible for doing things that added to the breakdown of the marriage. Remember, though, that YOU are the one who took the final step and cheated. That is 100% on YOU. It doesn't matter one iota what your wife did.

So the breakdown of the marriage is on BOTH of you. Your cheating is on YOU.



> Her lack in trust and constant accusations, for the best part of a year would be difficult for most people to accept.


You are not the first person to be accused of cheating, then cheat, with the mindset of "Well, I'm already being blamed for it so I might as well do it". That does NOT mean what you did was okay. Stop trying to minimize your choices. Not your 'mistake' or 'error in judgment', your choices. Just own it dude. You had to option to leave before crossing the line. You chose not to leave, just like you chose to kiss the other girl.



> So is it really justifiable and fair to be labelled as a cheater for that kiss, error in judgement, even after all the accusations and lack of trust she had for me leading up to that point??


Yes. Stop minimizing.


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

re16 said:


> Who has she kissed as revenge?


That’s a good answer/question. 

When I walked out it was and had to be the end. 
As much as I didn’t like to think about it, she was free to do whatever she wanted. 
I know she had a couple of F*** you hook ups and knew the gossip mongers would be eager to inform me!!
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying she was sleeping around with all and sundry!!

Your answer is a good example of why I posted my original question. To be now classed as a cheater so easily with no regard of the situation leading up to that point is difficult for me to comprehend. 

I know I’ve made a rod for my own back but I thought I’d see what other peoples perspective would be. 

What happened after and the consequences will be posted for people’s opinions at a later date!!!

Thanks for replying.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Of course you're a cheater.

That doesn't mean you don't have legitimate gripes.....it's just that once you decide to cheat you've shown yourself to be of questionable character, so you have no more credibility.

If you'd left the marriage without cheating it would be completely different. But when you take this path nobody will hear your legitimate gripes.....you'll only be the jerk who cheated.

If you were that miserable you could've left, yet you didn't. So either you decided to pay her back for her lack of trust (which you've now demonstrated is founded) and if so that's really immature and nasty. Or you didn't have the backbone to just leave....you can deduce what that makes you.

Now let's add that in your mind it's all her fault and you're just a victim who had no personal agency. Not good partner material.

It would behoove you to read the book @sokillme is recommending....it will help you going forward, whether this marriage is saved or not. Perhaps you're just not a good match, but either way there is much opportunity for personal growth for you.

And here's a bit of free advice from one who is older than you: NEVER discuss your marital /personal issues with a member of the opposite sex. That's a huge boundary violation and nothing good ever comes of it. When I went through my divorce I discussed things with my women friends only.


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

bobert said:


> BlindedByTheLight said:
> 
> 
> > I’ll try to explain in a better way and hopefully give you answers that make sense.
> ...



You stated I’m not the first person to be accused of cheating then cheat. 
I have to agree with you on that. 

To be accused of cheating for the best part of a year, with no evidence to back up the accusations, because there was nothing to be found. 

I’m obviously deluded in my thought process. I must be alone in thinking this situation is detrimental to a relationship. 11-12 months of constant accusations and finding it hard must be quite a normal occurrence and is a walk in the park???

Then at an exceptional low point I cross the line and kiss another women. It was then that I realised we couldn’t be fixed, went home, confessed and we broke up. 

Seriously is it just me that thinks the events of the previous 12 months is a major factor???

I’ll hold my hands up and accept that it’s just me and I’m ultimately the one to carry the blame!!

Appreciate you taking the time.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> You stated I’m not the first person to be accused of cheating then cheat.
> I have to agree with you on that.
> 
> To be accused of cheating for the best part of a year, with no evidence to back up the accusations, because there was nothing to be found.
> ...




It is detrimental to a relationship, but that doesn't absolve you of ownership of your decisions.

You seem to be stuck in thinking it's all one person's fault and she made you do it. Do you really have so little free will? I have to think you're stronger and smarter than that.

The victim mentally doesn't serve anyone well. Own your **** and you'll be better for it.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Good thing she didn't accuse you of being a killer. Or an presidential assassin or something like that.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Dude here is where your thinking is off. What you don't get yet is the one you hurt the most with kissing that girl is you! You have destroyed your honor and credibility. Yes of course you hurt your wife, but you also hurt yourself. It's telling that you are not more upset about that. You will never again be able to take the high road but you have yet to see that you need to repair what you can so you can at least have something left.


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

bobert said:


> BlindedByTheLight said:
> 
> 
> > I’ll try to explain in a better way and hopefully give you answers that make sense.
> ...


Just quickly on a side note.....
This is my first post on this site and I never really expected much of a response or the passion shown in answering, like you have. So thanks!!!

I’ve taken on bored lots of the things you’ve said and from others, it has given me a different perspective. I can’t say I agree with everything but it’s been an education and one I didn’t expect. If that makes sense?

One comment you made was, basically about it not being one or the others fault and that we both are to blame. 

I accept that and agree with you. I think it’s the first time that comment has been made and it’s the kind of point I was trying to get across. Obviously not very well!!

I probably should have posted one of my “ any advice on....” questions for a first attempt. 

Thanks again

T


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> In my mind I’m not blame shifting as I think the majority of the blame for the destruction of our relationship is on her.
> Her lack in trust and constant accusations, for the best part of a year would be difficult for most people to accept.
> 
> I understand that might not agree but let me ask you this, before you make judgement....
> ...


This is very faulty thinking. It's like a child trying to justify a bad act with nonsensical logic.

It simply doesn't matter that she didn't trust you.

You have control over your own actions and you made a conscious choice to do what you did.

She didn't force you.

END. OF. STORY.

Unless she went to the restaurant and physically forced your lips on the OW's, then it was your choice.

You don't have a leg to stand on. You need to grow up.

If you were unhappy with her behavior, you had plenty of respectable options - like separating or divorcing. These are honorable choices. What you did was choose to cheat. That's the dishonorable choice.

Do I think that it's hard, maybe even intolerable, to have my spouse constantly accuse me? Sure, but that doesn't MAKE me cheat. It makes me rethink the relationship.


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Of course you're a cheater.
> 
> That doesn't mean you don't have legitimate gripes.....it's just that once you decide to cheat you've shown yourself to be of questionable character, so you have no more credibility.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to comment. 
I’ve read your post a couple of times to take it all in. Definitely some valued points and given me some food for thought!!

As a first time post, I think I was a little over adventurous and ill prepared for the ensuing beating I’ve left myself wide open for!!!

Your correct about the cheating part being the main focus and my gripes not being listened too. In some ways I guess I deserve that!!

I’ve definitely made a ‘pigs ear’ of explaining the whole situation effectively. With the limited information I’ve given, assumptions have had to be made, regarding the situation, to give meaningful and honest answers. 

Example..... I didn’t feel the need to mention that this happened over 15 years ago and thought I’d only get answers about people’s thoughts on if they considered it cheating or not!!! 

I’m actually laughing at myself, as I’m typing, at how naive I’ve been!!! 

Getting back to some of your points, I’d like to respond. 

I was definitely that miserable and yes I could have left. I can honestly say that an act of revenge never crossed my mind ever!! 
On the whole we were a very good match, had a lot of very very happy times together and had already been together for over 15 years. 
What I actually wanted was to try and sort things out ant get back to being happy. 

I’m not perfect and have made plenty of mistakes, in my time. The kiss being one of them!!

At times I’ve felt it was all her fault even felt sorry for myself and hard done too. 

If you’ve read some of my other replies, I think it’s going to look like I’m not giving honest answer and keep changing my POV. 
That’s about not explaining things properly and not prepared. 

My post has been answered and even though comments have been harsh at times, I’m still taking away a lot of positives!!

If nothing else it’s opened my eyes to lots of different perspectives

Thanks


----------



## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Well, don't ever do this again and , maybe just maybe your wife can trust you again. Now you need to make it up to her, you need to do the hard lifting. Read 

Not Just Friends: Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity
Book by Jean Coppock Staeheli and Shirley Glass. 

And never think of this type of crap again. Because next time will be easier, and you have a character issue. Fix yourself and be that new Man of Honor and Devotion, who's full of integrity.


in·teg·ri·ty
/inˈteɡrədē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
"he is known to be a man of integrity"
Similar:
honesty
uprightness
probity
rectitude
honor
honorableness
upstandingness
good character
principle(s)
ethics
morals
righteousness
morality
nobility
high-mindedness
right-mindedness
noble-mindedness
virtue
decency
fairness
scrupulousness
sincerity
truthfulness
trustworthiness
Opposite:
dishonesty
2.
the state of being whole and undivided


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

So, this happened 15 years ago and after all this time you've still got this stinkin' thinkin'?

You and your BW broke up at that time?

If so, why are you really posting now?


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> .....So to cut to the chance, we got married and pregnant on our Honeymoon. Moved to the fantastic new house and I set up and opened the restaurant, my dream job. During this time I was accused of cheating with just about every female member of staff that I employed.
> 
> .....One night I ended up kissing a girl that worked for me!!! I know how bad that sounds!!
> 
> ...


Let's get serious for a moment. Any man who leaves a woman that is his wife and the mother of his child because he kissed another woman is a fool. Any woman who would divorce a man who is her husband and the father of her small child because he kissed another woman is also a fool.

Is a kiss worth ruining a marriage? No. Is it a huge error in judgement? Yes. Is it any reason to "walk out and leave a wife and your child?" Absolutely not.

Now with all this drama, what do you and your wife want to do? If you want to remain married, then go to marriage counseling and work on rebuilding the trust, communications, and intimacy in your relationship to the mother of your child. You need to grow up and take some responsibility.

P.S. 15 years ago? Really?


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

It’s funny that there was a guy that said his wife cheated because she kissed someone. 

Most all the women that responded to that thread said it wasn’t cheating, it was only a kiss. 

You started a emotional affair with your employee. That is where you cheated on your wife. The kiss was the wake up call that your marriage was over. You did the right thing by ending your marriage at that time and being honest with your ex wife about what happened. There are many that just continue in the affair and stay married.


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

ABHale said:


> It’s funny that there was a guy that said his wife cheated because she kissed someone.
> 
> Most all the women that responded to that thread said it wasn’t cheating, it was only a kiss.
> 
> You started a emotional affair with your employee. That is where you cheated on your wife. The kiss was the wake up call that your marriage was over. You did the right thing by ending your marriage at that time and being honest with your ex wife about what happened. There are many that just continue in the affair and stay married.


Thanks for your thoughts!! 
Being new and as a first post, I’ve defiantly been a bit adventurous. I can honestly say that I’ve been surprised by the amount of passion shown, albeit mostly negative, in the comments. 
I know I haven’t portrayed myself in a positive manner but it’s altered my perspective when looking back on the whole situation. 

I do feel that you have a better understanding of the point I was trying get across! After reading your reply, I have to admit, even though I’d never looked about things in that way before, it did start as an emotional affair. 

Where I think I’ve failed is getting across the detrimental effects, on the relationship, the countless accusations did have. 
In all honestly, how much longer should I have kept trying and accept the lack of trust?? 

I think that’s the question I should have asked an answer for!!

Thanks for taking the time to respond.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> In all honestly, how much longer should I have kept trying and accept the lack of trust??


No one says you have to accept it. That doesn't have anything to do with your cheating though. They way to go about not accepting it was to divorce or break up. You justifications only make you look more guilty.


----------



## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> Thanks for your thoughts!!
> Being new and as a first post, I’ve defiantly been a bit adventurous. I can honestly say that I’ve been surprised by the amount of passion shown, albeit mostly negative, in the comments.
> I know I haven’t portrayed myself in a positive manner but it’s altered my perspective when looking back on the whole situation.
> 
> ...


Just, as a outlyer if you did post the other question first. And then said that you kiss another, still doesn't justify the kiss, but again this is why you are here to see if others believe if one is married and kisses another what does it look like Cheating or not. 

Reframing a question sometimes comes full circle.


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Well, don't ever do this again and , maybe just maybe your wife can trust you again. Now you need to make it up to her, you need to do the hard lifting. Read
> 
> Not Just Friends: Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity
> Book by Jean Coppock Staeheli and Shirley Glass.
> ...





Young at Heart said:


> BlindedByTheLight said:
> 
> 
> > .....So to cut to the chance, we got married and pregnant on our Honeymoon. Moved to the fantastic new house and I set up and opened the restaurant, my dream job. During this time I was accused of cheating with just about every female member of staff that I employed.
> ...


I have to thank you for taking the time to comment. I’ve mentioned before how surprised I’ve been with the passion shown. 
In answer to your P.S. yes over 15 years ago in actual fact. 

I definitely needed to explain the situation and relationship back ground in much greater detail. Don’t get me wrong, I was never looking for any kind of justification or approval for my actions. 

A lot of what’s been said is correct in so many ways. I do feel that I’ve failed in explaining what I actually wanted answering. 

Regardless, it’s been an education and given me a different perspective on things. 

Looking back through my replies to comments, it could seem erratic. In my mind it makes sense but probably not as an outsider looking in. 

I have to take into account what you’ve said and accept that I’m not going to agree with everything. I can say that I do take my responsibilities seriously and the choices I’ve made. Not perfect or right choices all the time!!

I do appreciate you taking the time to comment.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> I’ll try to explain in a better way and hopefully give you answers that make sense. I’m not the best at getting point across, so bare with me.
> 
> Right from the start of looking at opening a restaurant, she freely admitted that she wasn’t happy about it and was jealous of me working with women.
> Just to be clear and to give her credit, she never once ask me to not go for it but expressed her concerns.
> ...



1. your wife knew you better than you knew yourself, knew you lacked proper boundaries and discipline.
2. I have lived in a marriage that has been full of pain for 25 years but I never cheated on my H not for want of opportunity either so that is not an excuse, why? because regardless of our relationship I respect myself and my values.
3. you cannot blame your wife for your own lack of character, so that is Bulls***!
4. The decent thing would have been to say Wife, it hurts me and disrespects me when you accuse me of this and that, if you think I am not good for you, lets go MC, let's separate, etc.
5. It appears that your own desires to have a restaurant far outweighed your relationship and marriage, she knew it too, so better you look yourself in the mirror and stop blame shifting.


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I wonder if your wife had reason to expect you would cheat. Otherwise, it makes no sense for anyone to be that suspicious or that insecure. But I can't expect you would come clean about that part if it is so. 

I wonder if it was really just a kiss or if it was more that you didn't confess to your wife. And if so, then since you told her it was just a kiss, it bothers you that you still got labeled as a cheater over what was, as far as she knew, just a kiss. It's kind of idiotic to risk sexual harassment charges for so little an offense (or offence in UK spelling). Something had to lead up to that "kiss" so who would stop it at just that?

I'm confused about a couple things. You first said she didn't want you to open the restaurant...."_she never wanted me to do it_". Then you changed that to her never saying not to do it, it was just that she didn't support you. Which is it?

I'm also confused as to exactly when this happened. Was it really 15 years ago? If so, why have you not moved on? What was the reason for asking about it after 15 years?

I was expecting you to tell us you and the girl were together after you left your wife because I suspect that had more to do with the reason you left your wife than just that you had kissed the girl. Then I read that you would post what happened after you left, so I'm waiting to see what that was. Did you go back to your wife and now these 15 years later, she's still calling you a cheater, and that's the reason you haven't moved on from it? Did you hook up with the girl you "kissed"? Or what?

I also think it's pretty sad commentary to claim you left your wife and 1 year old baby just because you kissed someone and claiming that kiss was indication your marriage was over.....as if you just couldn't help yourself.....and your wife made you do it. There has to be waaaayyyy more to this story. Sometimes people don't want to tell the whole story, so they call themselves providing what they think is just enough information to answer the basic question. But you left a lot of holes wide open. What you gave us makes you look like the second worst person on earth. Care to fill in the holes?


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Dude here is where your thinking is off. What you don't get yet is the one you hurt the most with kissing that girl is you! You have destroyed your honor and credibility. Yes of course you hurt your wife, but you also hurt yourself. It's telling that you are not more upset about that. You will never again be able to take the high road but you have yet to see that you need to repair what you can so you can at least have something left.


Exactly right. Your choice to cheat is going to haunt you and all your future relationships OP. When the inevitable question "Why did your marriage end?" is asked, you either have to lie or admit that you cheated. Neither is a palatable option.


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

sokillme said:


> BlindedByTheLight said:
> 
> 
> > In all honestly, how much longer should I have kept trying and accept the lack of trust??
> ...


WOW!!! What an answer!! I do have to agree with you and hold my hands to making some wrong decisions.
With the Benefit of hindsight, that’s exactly how I should’ve tackled that situation. 

Please don’t think I’m trying to make excuses but what I really truly wanted was to make things work. I never wanted to leave or get a divorce. As you stated about the emotional affair developing, I never planned for that to happen either but regrettably it did. 

Taking into account that I know and accept that what I did was wrong. I’m assuming that you have read a little of the background I’ve posted about the relationship. Do you think I deserve to be forever labelled a cheater and all of the negative connotations associated for realising, after having that kiss, it was the end?

Personally I think being stigmatised with that label is a bit harsh. 

Finally... do you think yours or any of the other answers would be different if it was the wife/women posting this situation??

Thanks


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

My answer would be the same independent of gender.

I believe that you cheated. There were many ways to handle the situation with your W's lack of trust that didn't include turning to another woman.

You just have to accept that many people in the world think that the 'forsaking all others' part of the vow is serious. If you want someone else, get some therapy or a divorce. The hurt caused by infidelity can be deep and paralyzing. Why inflict that on someone that you once vowed to love? In my opinion, divorce is less painful if it's based on truth.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> WOW!!! What an answer!!


I know right, once again I typed "they" for "the". My hands have a mind of their own. 



BlindedByTheLight said:


> Do you think I deserve to be forever labelled a cheater


It's like being an ex-con. 



BlindedByTheLight said:


> and all of the negative connotations associated for realising, after having that kiss, it was the end?


But like an ex-con you can reform and everyone deserves second chances. But you have to have a different mindset then you do now. Right now you are still trying to justify and make excuses for your actions. More importantly you are more upset about being labeled then the damage you have done and the hurt you caused. That shows you don't get it. When you get it you no longer care about yourself. 



BlindedByTheLight said:


> Personally I think being stigmatised with that label is a bit harsh.


Do the crime, do the time. It's just too late to worry about that, plus you have no control of that, just like you can't control what people think of you. 



BlindedByTheLight said:


> Finally... do you think yours or any of the other answers would be different if it was the wife/women posting this situation??


Maybe but not from me, all you need to do is read my posts and you know where I stand on this. Most people here are pretty consistent. You will also read a lot of typos. >


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

What I find most interesting is that you came here to argue. Why did you ask the question only to justify your actions over and over again, blame your wife over and over again, disagree with everybody, and tell everybody how wrong they are for disagreeing with you? Since you know everything and you cannot possibly be wrong, why ask? Why did you so badly need the entire internet full of people to argue with?


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I never got the impression that he is trying to justify his actions. 

No, his wife didn’t know him better then he knew himself. What bull****. 

Sorry, Constant nagging, no support and being called a cheater for years will kill any relationship. 

OP never used it as an excuse. He knows he cheated and immediately told his wife about the kiss. How many cheaters have done this? Hardly any. Most tell the BS that they left the marriage years before and never bothered to let them know. 

Continue your beating up on op it you want. The next time some female comes on here asking if a kiss is cheating I will refer her to this thread.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So, what has happened to make you question yourself after all of these years? Has your child asked questions? Is your ex-wife maligning you to friends and relatives?

Did you ever remarry? Still own that restaurant?


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

StarFires said:


> What I find most interesting is that you came here to argue. Why did you ask the question only to justify your actions over and over again, blame your wife over and over again, disagree with everybody, and tell everybody how wrong they are for disagreeing with you? Since you know everything and you cannot possibly be wrong, why ask? Why did you so badly need the entire internet full of people to argue with?


Fair play to your comment!!
I didn’t post to be pedantic or argumentative. At the end of the day it was just a **** situation all round. I posted to get people’s POV and perspectives. 
I definitely achieved that!!!, but it doesn’t mean I have to agree with every comment. 

My intention, in responding, was to try and explain myself better and on occasion play a little devil’s advocate. 

Just because I haven’t agreed with all of the comments, it doesn’t mean I didn’t take things on board and respect what’s been said. 

I’m definitely not perfect and, if I had the chance to go back, I would’ve made 
different choices.

I hope that makes sense??

For a first post I definitely went in at the deep end!!!! 
I do love and respect the passion and honesty shown with the comments. Albeit a little overwhelming at times. 

Thank you for taking the time!!


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> So, what has happened to make you question yourself after all of these years? Has your child asked questions? Is your ex-wife maligning you to friends and relatives?
> 
> Did you ever remarry? Still own that restaurant?


Hey Blondilocks, I’ll do my best to answer!!

When I first posted I didn’t expect to receive this amount of feedback , not that it’s a bad thing!! In fact I was fully expecting 0 comments seeing as this was my first attempt at making a post. 

Nothing happened to make me question myself after all these years. I’ve always felt being stigmatised as a cheat was a bit harsh with nothing taken into account of the situation leading up to it. 
I just thought I would throw it out there and see what response came back. In my naivety I thought it would be quite tame for a first post!!

Yes it happened years ago but, after a period of being separated, we did manage to work things out and are still together. 

In my opinion, people were very quick to judge me, hence the reason why I made the post and equally as quick to ignore the whole picture. 
I think we are all a little guilty of enjoying a bit of juicy gossip? Especially if it takes any focus away from what’s going on in our lives!!

The restaurant was sold years ago, I don’t regret having it and would do it again looking back. I would do things differently if I had the chance to go back and change things. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!! Lol

What I’ve learned is that the general consensus seems to be that I did cheat and deserve to be labelled as such!!

I do agree in some respects but not with everything. 

I hope that makes sense and wish me luck with the backlash which is about to ensue!!

Thanks for taking the time to comment.


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

ABHale said:


> I never got the impression that he is trying to justify his actions.
> 
> No, his wife didn’t know him better then he knew himself. What bull****.
> 
> ...


Thank you, thank you, thank you for understanding!!!! 
If I could go back and change things I would!!! 

There were no winners in this situation, we both lost!!! 

I appreciate you taking the time to comment. It’ll be interesting to see the reaction to your comment??


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It depends...

Did you kiss a woman, or did you kiss your marriage goodbye?

It seems...

Both thoughts, one action, has served the same purpose.

...............................................................................

On your wife..

Maybe your wife could read your mind, maybe she felt of this space earlier. The one that you have now remanded yourself to.

She knew you and your future, better than you do...did.

She saw it coming, damn, forced it's arrival. A self prophesied begotten buss.

She could hear 'your' subconscious mind talking in 'her' sleep.

..............................................................................

It may take one more kiss to make this problem to straight away, go away.
Kiss her butt.

.............................................................................

Hmm?

Maybe, 'she subconsciously' hypnotized you to do the dirty peck on the birdies cheek.
Think about it, I do.... I am.

On this...

Spoken words can be commands. 

Repeated words, those worries, impel others to act.

Constant negativity lathered on another, eventually builds up, and statically sparks to ground.

You give forth the charge, so witnessed.

...........................................

I bay in the forest heard, my warning not interpreted.



SunCMars-


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you for understanding!!!!
> If I could go back and change things I would!!!
> 
> There were no winners in this situation, we both lost!!!
> ...


There is no losing in life, there is only this gaining in perspective. :|

Perspective can be that knowledge traveling your way, some painfully driven home. :frown2:

After the separation, there were other roads traveled. Likely mandated by some 'blasted' power. :surprise:

You two needed of that before the union could hold firm.

Our lives are these books, sometimes needing in-between chapters.



SunCMars- :smile2:


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Some people assign degrees to infidelity - like first base, second base and so on. Others cut to the chase. Look to your intent and then to your conscience.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*From a purely aesthetic point of view, and by the letter of the definition, kissing another member of the other gender without their knowledge or express permission of one's spouse or significant other, is deemed as cheating!

Intent, however, is by far the biggest mitigating factor to be considered! And only you know the true answer to that in your heart!

Glad to hear that y'all have reached some form of normalcy in your relationship! Best of luck to you!

*


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> It depends...
> 
> Did you kiss a woman, or did you kiss your marriage goodbye?
> 
> ...



So yes a kiss is cheating. If it was the other way round I’d massively pissed off, angry and feel betrayed. I’d say that would be quite a normal reaction!!
If she then tried to make light of the kiss by saying “ stop over reacting and making a big deal of it. It was only a drunken kiss, I just got caught up in the moment, it’s nothing. It’s not like we had sex or anything!!! “

I’d definitely still be hurt and angry! If it was the first time she had kissed someone else since getting together, I think we would talk and work past the kiss and stay together. 

So from your POV it’s ok to label her a cheating wife? Let all our friends and family know and to keep an eye on her when’s ever out without me. 

Now if this was first time she had strayed but it ended up being more that a kiss and had sex, that would be a lot harder to try and get past and would take a lot longer, if at all. Well for me at least. 

On saying that a one night stand would would be easier than an affair, to get past in my opinion. 
Different lines have been crossed and have different impacts on the future of the relationship. 

First line to cross..... the drunken kiss

Second line to cross.... getting carried away in the heat of the moment and a ONS

Third line to cross... falling in love and having a long term affair. 

1..... stupid mistake and hurtful 

1+2..... selfish lack of regard to the consequences and extremely damaging 

1+2+3 ... deceitful and cowardly. Catastrophic damage to the relationship and nearly impossible to fix

I hope that makes sense??

Would you agree that’s a fair description or not?? Just out of interest. 


Now getting back to my situation, please don’t think I’m trying to make excuses or play things down in my favour, because I’m not. I’m going to try and explain how I think my situation differs to the cheating kiss I describe earlier. It’s also ok if you disagree and think I’m full of it. 

So let rewind 10-12 months before the cheating kiss occurred. .. fantastic news I’m going to open a cafe’ bar!! 
I don’t want you to but I’m not going to stop you. 
I think you’ll end up running off with one of the bar maids. 
I just laugh comments like that off for ages and tried to be positive but to no avail. 

Long story short, things escalated rapidly from there. Actually accusing me of have affair with virtually every female member of staff. Then the spying on me and asking friends if anything was going on. 

Then searching through my clothes, wallet, phone and laptop for non existing proof. We talked 100’s of times to try and work through things. The biggest thing for me was the total loss of trust she had for me and over time it took a massive toll on me. The constant arguments and nit picking was just relentless and nothing I did was good enough. 

What should have been the most fantastic and exciting time in our lives turned out to be the worst!!

Neither of us were happy and something had to give!! As it turned out it was the kiss that spelled the end for us!!

I was honestly gutted that it happened because it was the catalyst to me accepting it was over. 

I didn’t go looking for forgiveness, although I did apologies, felt massively guilty and admitted it was a ****ty thing to do and held my hands up. I didn’t try and play it down and make light of it either. 

Right after having that conversation we separated and I moved out. It wasn’t planned but I had nothing left to give in trying to make us work. I was just destroyed and felt it was a travesty for us to get to that point. At the time I needed her support the most I got nothing. 
She stayed in the house with our young son and I gladly continued to pay all the bill, cars, the cleaner and the child minder. 
Obviously not independently things would have to be sorted out at some point. 


Now I’m the cheating bastard in her eyes and it was all my fault because I left. Believe me she was More than willing to let everyone know about my affair and how she said from the beginning it was going to happen. 

The circumstances leading up to this point fell on deaf ears and no one was interested in the details only the end result. The juicy bit to gossip about!!

So yes a kiss is cheating but in my case it and what I endured leading up to it, just confirmed it was the end. To be stigmatised with being labelled a cheater and some of our friends look down there noses at me, I think is a bit harsh. 
Once a cheater always a cheater and all that. 

So I guess that’s what I was trying to ask in my OP but not doing it very well. 

Do you still think it’s fair, after everything to end up labelled a cheater and the destroyer of the marriage??

Sorry it’s so long. I got carried away a bit!!! Lol

I look forward to any thought you have after reading this. 

Thanks 👍


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Fair? Pffffft

How about you accept the wearing of the scarlet letter and your wife accepts the label of paranoid, unrelenting harpy?


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Hello Blinded,

This is a difficult one to call. I cannot hand on heart brand you a cheater for the one kiss like many others here (mainly the females) are doing. It was one kiss that followed on from a marriage of pure false accusations and paranoia which must not have made for a happy home.

So lets just say that you crossed a line (like many wives who have not been branded cheaters have the world over - kissed somebody and then regretted it). Obviously there must have been some attraction to go through with even the one kiss. But thats not to say that spouses the world over do not get attracted to others every now and then. Hopefully most dont act on it but I am willing to bet that many have kissed someone and then regretted it (while being in a committed relationship or married).

Now lets get to the emotional affair part of it - were you in an emotional affair with this woman ? Were you confiding details about your life, marriage (or lack of it) to her and getting emotional support from her ? Or was she just someone to talk to and you would have just been fine if you didn't talk to her ? If you needed her emotional support and even craved it, then you were in an emotional affair and that would be cheating. If you could take her company or leave it and it did not matter to you, then you were not in an emotional affair. I suspect that you would have confided in anyone who cared to listen at the time. 

Your wife sounds like she is insecure for whatever reason and that is something that she needs to work on.

Did you say that you just left the marriage when you confessed to the kiss ? What was the agreement at the time ? Did your wife hook up with anyone else and also did you ? Need to understand what happened just after this. Sounds like neither of you made any attempt to repair this. What made you get back together again ?

And once again, no, you are not a cheater - just someone with poor coping skills (like many of us).


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She was ready, her guns were ready, uh, cahked.

She needed an excuse to dump you, flat.

You finally gave it to her, simple as that.

I forgive you, me, a shiner pardoning a sinner.

Start afresh, this outcome was not a travesty, it was a godsend.

Divorce, then kiss all and any till your lips taste a good 'black and tan'.


The Typist I-


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> That’s a good answer/question.
> 
> When I walked out it was and had to be the end.
> As much as I didn’t like to think about it, she was free to do whatever she wanted.
> ...


She has hooked up with at least two men after your kiss?

Did she hook up with anyone before your kiss? Because often cheaters will accuse their spouse of cheating, even if they are the one who is cheating. 

And my stupid revenge affair was based, in part, on the feeling that if my wife was constantly accusing me of cheating, when I wasn't, was that I might as well be hung for a sheep rather than a lamb. Which was utterly stupid and reprehensible of me, but sometimes we are capable of doing something that we normally wouldn't do.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> Let's get serious for a moment. Any man who leaves a woman that is his wife and the mother of his child because he kissed another woman is a fool. Any woman who would divorce a man who is her husband and the father of her small child because he kissed another woman is also a fool.
> 
> Is a kiss worth ruining a marriage? No. Is it a huge error in judgement? Yes. Is it any reason to "walk out and leave a wife and your child?" Absolutely not.
> 
> ...


It took me nearly that long to find TAM to start posting, so fair play to @BlindedByTheLight for coming to TAM. 

And his use of "fair play" outs him out as a fellow Brit. (It's a very common saying, but only in Britain! :smthumbup


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> Let's get serious for a moment. Any man who leaves a woman that is his wife and the mother of his child because he kissed another woman is a fool. Any woman who would divorce a man who is her husband and the father of her small child because he kissed another woman is also a fool.
> 
> Is a kiss worth ruining a marriage? No. Is it a huge error in judgement? Yes. Is it any reason to "walk out and leave a wife and your child?" Absolutely not.
> 
> ...


It took me nearly that long to find TAM to start posting, so fair play to @BlindedByTheLight for coming to TAM. 

And his use of "fair play" outs him out as a fellow Brit. (It's a very common saying, but only in Britain! :smthumbup


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> Some people assign degrees to infidelity - like first base, second base and so on. Others cut to the chase. Look to your intent and then to your conscience.


I understand your point about just cutting to the chase. It definitely fits in with the ideals of things in life are either black or white with out any gray areas in between. 

At what point does it stop being black and turns into white, in your opinion??

Would it be the act of a kiss? Let’s say it is the act of a kiss where it changes, for arguments sake. 

Am I correct in thinking from your POV, the degree of infidelity from that kiss is equal in severity to any infidelity past that point??

For example, although it might be a little unrealistic and extreme. A woman walks into the bar where her partner and the rest of the football team always meet up after a game. His team mates tell her he got held up and should be long in joining them. She sits down with the players and has a couple drinks while she waits. 

After a little while the chat starts getting flirty and she’s bombarded with complements and innuendo from his team mates. 

Fast forward to.... she ends up getting carried away, with all the sexual talk the atmosphere was electronic!!

Before she, apparently, she knew what she was doing!! She had accepted a challenge and had, somehow agreed on a sum of cash to be paid if she completed the challenge. 

Then at some point during the challenge, she realised she was in the middle of a gangbang, in the back of a players van in the car park. She hadn’t noticed or agreed to being filmed by some of the players, on their phones. 

When it was over she found herself half naked, covered from head to toe, couldn’t find her thong and a massive hangover starting to kick in. 

It was at point she had a moment of clarity and remembered her partner always insisted that it’s either black or white, a yes or a no. Grey areas or maybes was just pointless. 

Knowing his view on infidelity and kissing another was the line to cross to be a cheat. Plain and simple in his words!!

With that thought in mind, she started to smile. Realising that the degree of infidelity, in having a gang bank with his teammates was on the same level as having a drunken kiss with a stranger at the end of a night out with the girls. 

To help get a chance of a positive outcome to her infidelity and cheating, she would use some of the money, for completing the challenge, she would treat him to that new drill he’s been after. Yes that definitely swing things in her favour!!

That is what you mean by cutting to the chase? Your either a cheat or your not??

Equally it would be the same if your line in the sand, changing from black to white, started at accepting a drink from a stranger at the bar and flirting??


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

arbitrator said:


> *From a purely aesthetic point of view, and by the letter of the definition, kissing another member of the other gender without their knowledge or express permission of one's spouse or significant other, is deemed as cheating!
> 
> Intent, however, is by far the biggest mitigating factor to be considered! And only you know the true answer to that in your heart!
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to make comment. 

After reading it makes a lot of sense. 

I’m also glad we managed to work things out in the end.

Thank you


----------



## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> Blondilocks said:
> 
> 
> > Some people assign degrees to infidelity - like first base, second base and so on. Others cut to the chase. Look to your intent and then to your conscience.
> ...



I must apologise to you blondilocks!!!
I misunderstood the dynamics of your comment. 
Mistakenly I came to the conclusion that you agreed with the ‘cutting to the chase’ argument regarding infidelity. 

Upon reading through your comment again, I now realise that you were putting down both sides of the argument to think about. 

It sort of makes my war and peace sized reply irrelevant. 

I hope it makes for an interesting read regardless and I’ve not offended you in any way??

I am really sorry!!


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

StarFires said:


> What I find most interesting is that you came here to argue. Why did you ask the question only to justify your actions over and over again, blame your wife over and over again, disagree with everybody, and tell everybody how wrong they are for disagreeing with you? Since you know everything and you cannot possibly be wrong, why ask? Why did you so badly need the entire internet full of people to argue with?





BlindedByTheLight said:


> Fair play to your comment!!
> I didn’t post to be pedantic or argumentative. At the end of the day it was just a **** situation all round. I posted to get people’s POV and perspectives.
> I definitely achieved that!!!, but it doesn’t mean I have to agree with every comment.
> 
> ...


Don't take it personally or quit posting. She got banned. Take people's comments with a grain of salt, and take what fits and leave the rest.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Oops. Double post.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ABHale said:


> I never got the impression that he is trying to justify his actions.
> 
> No, his wife didn’t know him better then he knew himself. What bull****.
> 
> ...


And you ought to know that everyone has their own opinion. Yours isn't any better or worse than anyone else's so stop with the criticism. 
Yes and you would take a cheater at his word, oh sorry he is not a cheater, just a poor misaligned guy who wanted to do what he wanted to do and his wife was a *****. Do you hear yourself!


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Adelais said:


> Don't take it personally or quit posting. She got banned. Take people's comments with a grain of salt, and take what fits and leave the rest.


OMG, she got banned for what exactly, having an opinion?
Honest to Gawd, the politically correct snowflake syndrome is seeping into TAM. What ever happened to the 2X4s. Recently another poster was on here saying she was in an awful marriage with an abusive husband and she thought she might have feelings for another man. The amount of vitriol spewed at her by some men on here who had not even read what she said correctly was appalling. YET here we are with someone who has gone one step further....

Come on MODS, there is definitely gender bias on this forum, its plain to see.............ban me if you want!

And in the grand scheme of things, the OP't title, did he cheat or not, is going to be a matter of opinion, I really do not know why he cares about the opinion of a bunch of strangers on the internet.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

aine said:


> And you ought to know that everyone has their own opinion. Yours isn't any better or worse than anyone else's so stop with the criticism.
> Yes and you would take a cheater at his word, oh sorry he is not a cheater, just a poor misaligned guy who wanted to do what he wanted to do and his wife was a beatch. Do you hear yourself!


I said he cheated in my earlier post. Maybe you should read it. 

If this triggers you so bad, maybe you should stop reading this thread. 

OP is here for help not to be beaten up.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

aine said:


> OMG, she got banned for what exactly, having an opinion?
> Honest to Gawd, the politically correct snowflake syndrome is seeping into TAM. What ever happened to the 2X4s. Recently another poster was on here saying she was in an awful marriage with an abusive husband and she thought she might have feelings for another man. The amount of vitriol spewed at her by some men on here who had not even read what she said correctly was appalling. YET here we are with someone who has gone one step further....
> 
> Come on MODS, there is definitely gender bias on this forum, its plain to see.............ban me if you want!
> ...


MODERATOR NOTE:-

The poster in question was NOT banned for having an opinion. She was NOT banned for being a female. 

She was banned for arguing with a female moderator and demanding that the moderator should ban her.

The decision to ban her was a group decision by all moderators both Male and female.

This is her tenth ban for attacking other members, being rude to other members and being aggressive to moderators.

The moderation team reject unfair accusations of gender bias.

And why you would want to be banned under these circumstances is puzzling to be honest.

If you see unfair attacks on other members based on what you perceive as gender bias, or for other reasons please report them.


----------



## Bananaz (Nov 5, 2019)

wow, of course you did cheat. Just because she accused you all the times you didn’t, doesn’t cancel out the time you did.


----------

