# After the second time



## LASTIME (Feb 4, 2015)

New here so I hope this is the right place,
Here is the rundown,
Married to WW 12 years, together 17 her first EA lasting six months turning into PA the last month and happening twice was three years into the M (2006). We wanted to save the M so I put my head down and went all in, I think/thought she did to. A year of counseling, renewed vows and a lot of hard work and seemed like everything was good. Two years later(2008) was some inappropriate texting with another guy, she wasn't deleting the text and they were not sexual or suggestive in any way but imo any texting with any man other than me is inappropriate when it is done just casually with no real reason. I strongly stated my stance on this and it stopped. Everything good as it could be from then until Jan 23 2015 I monitored her actions, phone, computer, FB and all that. The transparency was there the whole time through 2013 when I thought I was just wasting time after finding nothing for five years and quit. Then D-day I was making up the bed and her phone fell on the floor and I thought, well been awhile so I checked it and there were text between one of her friends that another guys name was mentioned (she used to work with him). I immediately confronted her and she started the T.T. and said it had been going on since May 2014 which is when he left the job(the evidence backs that up). and It was only flirty innuendo type stuff, after a week the whole truth came out and it had turned into a PA the last month before I found out and happened twice. So here I am now and need help/opinions on if this M is even salvageable at this point. The first A was exposed to the OMW, our pastor,my sister and one of her close friends and that was it(I feel the less people in your business the better off you are). She was totally remorseful and did everything that I asked with no hesitation or hurry and I feel like she was honest about everything. The same this time too though, she says she knows she has a problem and is willing to do what ever it takes to get it straightened out. She compared it to a drug addict that does right until they take that first hit again and then it just will not go away(the rush she gets when another man pays her attention even though she says I am good at that but not perfect). Anybody out there worked through two As and came out better on the other end. Just needed some of that been there to advice/input.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Do you have kids and how old are they?


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

So far only two....I'm afraid there will be more. Your wife is damaged beyond repair. If you stay with her you'll never know a minute's peace. Is this the way you want to spend the rest of your life? Bail, brother, bail before she does it to you again.


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## LASTIME (Feb 4, 2015)

No kids


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

LASTIME said:


> New here so I hope this is the right place,
> Here is the rundown,
> Married to WW 12 years, together 17 her first EA lasting six months turning into PA the last month and happening twice was three years into the M (2006). We wanted to save the M so I put my head down and went all in, I think/thought she did to. A year of counseling, renewed vows and a lot of hard work and seemed like everything was good. Two years later(2008) was some inappropriate texting with another guy, she wasn't deleting the text and they were not sexual or suggestive in any way but imo any texting with any man other than me is inappropriate when it is done just casually with no real reason. I strongly stated my stance on this and it stopped. Everything good as it could be from then until Jan 23 2015 I monitored her actions, phone, computer, FB and all that. The transparency was there the whole time through 2013 when I thought I was just wasting time after finding nothing for five years and quit. Then D-day I was making up the bed and her phone fell on the floor and I thought, well been awhile so I checked it and there were text between one of her friends that another guys name was mentioned (she used to work with him). I immediately confronted her and she started the T.T. and said it had been going on since May 2014 which is when he left the job(the evidence backs that up). and It was only flirty innuendo type stuff, after a week the whole truth came out and it had turned into a PA the last month before I found out and happened twice. So here I am now and need help/opinions on if this M is even salvageable at this point. The first A was exposed to the OMW, our pastor,my sister and one of her close friends and that was it(I feel the less people in your business the better off you are). She was totally remorseful and did everything that I asked with no hesitation or hurry and I feel like she was honest about everything. The same this time too though, she says she knows she has a problem and is willing to do what ever it takes to get it straightened out. She compared it to a drug addict that does right until they take that first hit again and then it just will not go away(the rush she gets when another man pays her attention even though she says I am good at that but not perfect). Anybody out there worked through two As and came out better on the other end. Just needed some of that been there to advice/input.


I think you know what people are going to tell you. My own opinion is everybody deserves a second chance, nobody deserves a third. From your words you sound like a person who has good values and knows the difference between right and wrong. From your words your wife sounds to me like someone who does not have good values and doesn't know right from wrong or is not a good enough person to do the right thing. I know that hurts and I won't give you advice about what to do from here forward but this situation doesn't look good my friend and for that I'm really sorry. TAM friends are always here for you. They have been for me.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Next her. Serial cheat.

Get tested for STDs. 

Have her served and date hotter younger babies. Move on. You did your part, she failed multiple times. You can't un-ho her. She's done. She's broken. Let her be someone else's problem.

Damn, things like this makes me want to get a DNA test for myself... or at least stick a fork in my head.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

She sounds like she is a serial cheater. She gets high off the affair and excitement of doing something wrong, and the excitement of a new relationship. She might be a dopamine and adrenaline junkie. Realistically, no one can provide that high in a long term relationship all the time. As soon as things slow down with you at any period, she will most likely cheat. The fact that she starts off with an ea first, she is more suitable for an open marriage, but she is not compatible with you.

As much as you love her, she is unlikely the right person for you. You could not be content with loving her.

Since there are no children involved, I suggest you leave and heal as fast as possible. Rip off the band-aid in one quick motion instead of prolonging the pain.


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## LASTIME (Feb 4, 2015)

She does have good values and knows right from wrong,leadership position in the church. I know I sound like a stupid blind moron and may be, I was just wondering if anybody here had work through two and made. I've personally never seen it and I have seen plenty. you know one is bad enough.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

While it's true that "once a cheater, always a cheater" doesn't always apply, it would seem to apply here.

Sorry man, but it's time for you to pull the plug and move on.

ETA: No kids? Dude. Run. Run now, and never look back.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

LASTIME said:


> She does have good values and knows right from wrong,leadership position in the church. I know I sound like a stupid blind moron and may be, I was just wondering if anybody here had work through two and made. I've personally never seen it and I have seen plenty. you know one is bad enough.


Actions speak louder than words. Being a church leader doesn't mean anything. Priests got caught diddling little boys. I think you still love her so you're saying "she does have good values" but think about her actions? Is her behavior (multiple EA's/PA's) the actions of someone with good values?

I have my own WS I'm in the process of R with. My #1 deal breaker for her is any inappropriate contact with the opposite sex for the rest of her life and I walk right away and will never speak to her again.

If a WS repeats then they're going to repeat again and again and again. They're not going to stop. They'll just be more careful next time.

Don't let her make a chump of you. If you want to R with her then it's on your terms, not hers.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

LASTIME said:


> No kids


RUN


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

convert said:


> RUN


Lol. We're all trying to offer some complex advice but I think you got right to the point. Bravo.:smthumbup:


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

LASTIME said:


> *Sh**e does have good values and knows right from wrong,leadership position in the church*. I know I sound like a stupid blind moron and may be, I was just wondering if anybody here had work through two and made. I've personally never seen it and I have seen plenty. you know one is bad enough.


oh.... No she does not


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

It is highly unlikely. If she has not gained any wisdom, you have the same person that cheated on you. Your attachment to her is strong, and your looking for good qualities which she does possess. She however, does not possess the ability to be in a monogamous marriage with you, that is a quality she possesses too. Someone who fails to learn is prone to fail time and time again. Leaving her might be the best thing you can do for her also. It could teach her that sometimes, you cannot always get what you want, and if you let someone down, the bridge is burned with that person forever.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Q tip said:


> Next her. Serial cheat.
> 
> Get tested for STDs.
> 
> ...



Yeah, get someone hotter, because that solves everything. Don't bother looking for a woman with character or anything. If all you care about is hot you deserve whatever you get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Lastime, You are not what she is looking for in a permanent relationship. No children gives you a free pass to walk.
Take it!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

LASTIME said:


> S*he does have good values and knows right from wrong,leadership position in the church. *I know I sound like a stupid blind moron and may be, I was just wondering if anybody here had work through two and made. I've personally never seen it and I have seen plenty. you know one is bad enough.


Lastime,

Here's the problem: the "having good values" and "knowing right from wrong" and "lead position in the church" are all exterior masks covering up her True Self. Her true self committed adultery, did not work on herself to fix whatever the sin was that caused her to do that, and she committed adultery AGAIN. Her true self lied to you numerous times. Her true self killed her marriage without a second thought. Her true self stole another man's affection and loyalty and gave away to another man what was yours! Her true self coveted what was not hers. 

So she may want people to see her as a person with good values and as a leader in the church, but those kinds of things are INTERNAL, not just fake external masks. If she really had good values she would not only stop lying but start telling the truth! If she really had good values she would not only stop committing adultery but start being FAITHFUL... See where I'm going with this? 

In your heart of hearts, you very much WANT her to be a woman of good values, who knows right from wrong and is a leader in the church. But you are allowing your wish to cloud reality, meaning that instead of seeing what's true, you see what you WISH was true. So it's time to take off the rose-colored glasses and admit to yourself that the person you thought you married does not exist. The real person in front of you is not the image you had of her. The woman you are envisioning is essentially dead, and the woman in front of you is a woman who knows she has a sexual problem and has done NOTING to look at herself and correct the problem. 

I am going to assume that you are a Christian and she also says or claims she is a Christian. I'm also going to assume that Christians can do the wrong thing and make selfish, hurtful choices. Hey--it happened to me so I can't really be all judgmental now, can I? But I would suggest that this time through, you show your wife Real, Deep LOVE by exposing her affair to the pastor and the elders, to her family and your family, and if it was a work affair, to her employer and your employer. You're telling your boss because you are going to be a mess and your productivity will go down, so you want them to have a clue why. Then I suggest that you ask her to move out and go about taking care of her life without you--that for now you are asking for Legal Separation. 

See, part of her problem is that she is more than willing to utterly destroy you, the man who is supposed to be the one she loves, but she does not expect to have to pay any cost for her choices to be unfaithful. She thinks that she gets to keep the house and the finances and the nice lifestyle, but also have the dalliance on the side. But in real life, the cost of flirting around is that the LOSES the house, the finances, the lifestyle and the security, the friendship, and the support of YOU! Yes I know it sounds like you are punishing her, but really what you're doing is allowing her to experience the consequences of HER OWN CHOICES. Choosing to diddle around has COSTS!!

True Love allows the other to experience the costs of their own choices and hopes that they will grow from the experience!

Then I would strongly recommend that you give her a year or more and just observe to see what she does. Does she get into counseling ON HER OWN? Does she get her butt to the counselor on her own? Does she do the work in between therapy appointments? Does she look at herself and not try to blame you? Does she have revelations about how she was thinking incorrectly and now she has a new way to think? Does she set up protective boundaries ON HER OWN? Does she act like her focus is #1 living in a way that pleases God (from the inside out, not the other way around) and #2 living in a way that is faithful to you? If you see these kinds of behaviors (not words...not promises...but ACTIONS) for a year on her own without you coaxing and "helping" her, then she may have really changed. If all you hear are promises with no actions, talking with no differences in behavior, then she hasn't changed at all and her chances of committing adultery again are about 100%.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I largely believe that if you feel that she is genuinely repentent of her transgressions against you, and greatly provided that you feel that she is worth taking the risk, does everything according to your exacting specifications, without the least equivocation, then she could be entitled to "three strikes and your out!"

The problem therein is with you ~ do you feel that she is in any way still trustable.~ If I were in your shoes, I know that I wouldn't! At this juncture, the OM's wife needs to be made aware of it, your pastor needs to be made aware of it, any counselors that you are either individually or jointly using needs to be made aware of it! I'm also greatly thinking that all of yours and herfamily members need to be appropriately appraised of it!

The only way that she'll repent and fully recover is that if she is summarily made to lower herself down to the absolute depths of the valley, and to literally feel like the absolute scum of the earth; and then to repent, beg forgiveness, and then try to pull herself up by her own bootstraps!
If that's in any way possible!

Don't placate or feel sorry for her! Conversely, she should be the one feeling sorry for you!

As it sits now, I really don't think that Las Vegas would quote you very good odds on her coming and remaining clean!*


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I've gone through two affairs from my wife and we're made it out the other side. The last one was initiated about 4.5 years ago.

With that said however, we didn't really heal in between the first and the second, even though they were with different guys. So it's not quite like your situation where everything seemed to be fully repaired and going well in between the two affairs. My wife's two affairs were only months apart.

Is it possible?? Gosh... maybe, though the odds certainly seem stacked against you, and it concerns me enormously that she referred to her cheating as an "addiction" of some kind. To me that alludes to the possibility that even she recognizes that she could cheat again after this. That's just a huge red flag for me. Huge.


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## tryingtogetover (Feb 7, 2015)

Lastime, my heart goes out to you, but you need to move on. This looks like it will never stop. Cheating on you twice is a deal breaker.

My thoughts and prayers are with you man. This sucks, but you need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know you were man enough to do the right thing.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

LASTIME said:


> She does have good values and knows right from wrong,leadership position in the church. I know I sound like a stupid blind moron and may be, I was just wondering if anybody here had work through two and made. *I've personally never seen it and I have seen plenty. you know one is bad enough.*


I' sorry you are having a repeat performance.

Liking affairs to drug addiction provides a little bit of an alibi.

I don't like that she adopted that line of thinking.


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## isthereanyhope (Feb 9, 2015)

Hi Last time,
I'm new here too and in a very similar situation with the three chance thing and I have no idea what to do either. It's easy for others to say a cheater will never change and they are probably right but I want, more than anything, to believe there is still a little bit of hope left for me and my husband and I'm sure you want to be sure too, before you close the door.
My husband has never cheated physically (that I am aware of) but had a 4 month online fling ten years ago. We worked hard to rebuild and I really thought we had gotten there- everything was perfect and I thought we were happy until I discovered recent messages with explicit content on his phone yesterday- going back as far as 6 months ago. I really don't know what to do either but I want you to know you aren't alone. I want to give him another chance as he's so utterly devastated and we work really well together but I don't know that I will ever be able to trust him or anyone again. If your wife continues to flaunt it in your face then it is only a matter of time before it destroys everything but if you think she wants it to work then you need to take complete control of the relationship and she will have to jump through every hoop to prove it to you. Each time wears you down a little more and everyone has a breaking point. How many times will we say one more chance?


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

isthereanyhope said:


> Hi Last time,
> I'm new here too and in a very similar situation with the three chance thing and I have no idea what to do either. It's easy for others to say a cheater will never change and they are probably right but I want, more than anything, to believe there is still a little bit of hope left for me and my husband and I'm sure you want to be sure too, before you close the door.
> My husband has never cheated physically (that I am aware of) but had a 4 month online fling ten years ago. We worked hard to rebuild and I really thought we had gotten there- everything was perfect and I thought we were happy until I discovered recent messages with explicit content on his phone yesterday- going back as far as 6 months ago. I really don't know what to do either but I want you to know you aren't alone. I want to give him another chance as *he's so utterly devastated* and we work really well together but I don't know that I will ever be able to trust him or anyone again. If your wife continues to flaunt it in your face then it is only a matter of time before it destroys everything but if you think she wants it to work then you need to take complete control of the relationship and she will have to jump through every hoop to prove it to you. Each time wears you down a little more and everyone has a breaking point. How many times will we say one more chance?


Are you less devastated than he is?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

LASTIME said:


> *She does have good values and knows right from wrong,leadership position in the church*. I know I sound like a stupid blind moron and may be, I was just wondering if anybody here had work through two and made. I've personally never seen it and I have seen plenty. you know one is bad enough.


You're not stupid, but there is a disconnect with reality.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

If you are really bent on saving this marriage and i dont know why given its her second time and her response being paid attention is like a drug there must be severe consequences dished out.

No friendships with the Opposite Sex period. No messages, no coffee dates, etc.

She must be transparent about her whereabouts, phone, email, computer, etc.

You need to put your foot down and state clear boundaries this time. Unfortunately you are now paying the price for rugsweeping her previous affair.

If she is unwilling to agree to all your conditions then she must be shown the door no ifs or buts.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

no kids

Run Forest,run


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

LASTIME said:


> She does have good values and knows right from wrong,*leadership position in the church.* I know I sound like a stupid blind moron and may be, I was just wondering if anybody here had work through two and made. I've personally never seen it and I have seen plenty. you know one is bad enough.


i think it is folly to trust that because she has a leadership position in a church that that somehow inoculates her from what she wants to do.

Your wife is a serial cheater.

You have no children.

If I were you, I'd show her the door and out her behavior to the church.


Move on and be wiser about how a woman like her operates.

She is very clever, but not clever enough.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

LASTIME said:


> No kids


Divorce her.

There's no point to it any longer.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah, get someone hotter, because that solves everything. Don't bother looking for a woman with character or anything. If all you care about is hot you deserve whatever you get.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


While QTips advice isn't the best for a guy looking for a life partner it is most definately good advice for a guy who is having trouble letting go of the woman he thought would be his life partner.

It's the first step towards healing and figuring out what you do want in a wife/SO.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"She compared it to a drug addict that does right until they take that first hit again and then it just will not go away(the rush she gets when another man pays her attention even though she says I am good at that but not perfect)."

Well this analogy would not help me in the least if I heard it from my partner...as I don't want to be in a relationship with a drug addict either.

Run.

There is nothing to save here....she is too broken.

Anyone who could put the person they supposedly love through this sh*t not once, but TWICE, has issues too deep to consider staying with, if for no other reason than self preservation of you own sanity and health.

Sorry you are here.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

What consequences did she have last time? told a few people.

Will she stand up in church and tell them all what she did?

Will she expose to the OM's significant other?

I do not see this working. Is she upset that she got caught?

Has she been tested for stds?

You are wasting your time. Did she sign an agreement that is she cheats, she walks away?

She does not respect you at all. Does she have any idea how much pain you get from her cheating and lying?

I do not think she get it. What do you want to do?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LASTIME said:


> So here I am now and need help/opinions on if this M is even salvageable at this point.


No.



LASTIME said:


> she says she knows she has a problem and is willing to do what ever it takes to get it straightened out.


IF she does this - from another home, for at least a year, and you see certifiable results from the therapist to explain why she does it and why she will no longer do it, maybe. But not if you let her stay there. She'll have no reason to fix herself.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Your story caught my attention from your phone surveillance post, but I think my response is more appropriate here. 

You say she is willing to do "whatever it takes", do you have an idea of what it will take?

I was in a similar situation, but decided to quickly and swiftly file. I had no idea what she could possibly do to prove I could ever trust her again. I told her she was welcome to try and persuade me, but in the mean time, I was going to follow through with divorcing her. 

She couldn't come up with anything either. So, we are now happily divorced. I'm doing better, and I believe she is too.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

LASTIME

I consider myself a very patient man that doesn't make decisions out of anger. However this would be the exception to the rule. I advocate for what the OP wants, reconcile or divorce, have you decided this yet. If you have decided and you choose reconciliation this is going to be extremely difficult. You are facing a huge uphill battle. I can only tell you my WW has one chance, if I get wind of anything inappropriate I am divorcing. I can't go through this a second time. I'm sorry that you are having to. 

If you have chosen divorce, then in my opinion you have chosen most wisely. I wish you good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

When it comes to serial infidelity, love is simply not enough to save a marriage. 

Serial cheaters, by their nature, are unsuitable for marriage or any type of committed relationship.

I leave you with Aesop's tale "The Scorpion And The Frog"



> *The Scorpion and the Frog*
> 
> A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back.
> 
> ...


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

LASTTIME I am truly sorry to have you here. Here are my comments:



This is not the second time but the third time that you have caught her - the second was just starting up and you nipped it in the bud in 2008 I believe. And this is from what you know. There may have been others that you do not know about.


Like Arbitrator I believe that everyone can be given another chance if there is some hope. However, I don't believe this is a question of simply giving her another chance. It is a question of what you hope to achieve and by when.


She has openly told you that she finds this sort of thing really, really hard to resist. Even if you took her up on her offer to get treatment for it, that is going to be a long and tortuous journey for you with no guaranteed success. In short, you will always (and I mean ALWAYS) be checking up on her - for the rest of your married life. 


If you are OK with this and you still really love her, then by all means you should proceed to reconcile - but go into this knowing what I have said above and with your eyes open.


I don't see how you say she has great morals and an upstanding position in your church. This makes a mockery of your church because it is very clear that she has a severe lack of morals - her self gratification comes first and cheating and lying come naturally to her. So I really think you need to address this line of thinking of yours for yourself.


And remember that it is very possible that there have been others that you know nothing about - she could have taken some of those underground or they may have been short lived.


It is important to try and determine whether she ever planned to leave you for any of these pieces of sh!t, or was it just for sex to feed her lust for attention. If it was the latter then it is an addiction now for her - of it was the former then there is something really lacking here and "treatment" will not work.

Take care and determine the truth.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Ok, first time you wanted to save the M. Ok, I get that. 

Now its obvious she is at it again.

Ditch the b***h


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Being "willing" to do anything to save the marriage is not the same as having the "ability" to do it. 

Divorce her. She's not able to be faithful.


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## LASTIME (Feb 4, 2015)

Thanks for all the replies,
I am like this on the whole thing 

1. I love this woman with every fiber of my being.

2. I rugswept everything before now (I didn't know any better) 

3.I hate to quit with something if I know I failed because I didn't know how to do it the first time I tried it (you can't blame a person if they didn't have the knowledge) 

4. I don't know what to do

5.from what I've read on here every case is different and nobody can give advice on your particular situation that is 100% true 100%of the time 

6. I hate even being here

7. We all will make our own decisions and live with them

8. We come here looking for a solution and it is not here 

9.It is in you and you and only you can find it 

10. So gather as much knowledge as you can and don't look at it straight on, step to the side and look at it as a bystander then step to the other side and look at it from their side. After that step back in your shoes and make your decision.

11.No matter what we do D,R,Nothing is for sure which is what a lot of us here are grasping for.

12. Sometimes you have to dive into the dark unknown 

13.ALWAYS,ALWAYS. TRUST WHAT YOU TRUST:GOD,HEART,GUT. IT WILL BE ONE OF THOSE. 3


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

LASTIME said:


> Thanks for all the replies,
> I am like this on the whole thing
> 
> 1. I love this woman with every fiber of my being.
> ...


"We come on here" ?? Is she helping you with this thread ?

Sounds like you are looking for some magic wand to come up with the right answer but your rugsweeping has brought you here.

And you don't have to dive into the unknown. She had a plan, why don't you ???


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So...you lurve her soooooo much that you're going to stay with her no matter how many other men she has because, well, love conquers all, and because you two are different?

Ok.

Good luck.


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## LASTIME (Feb 4, 2015)

I don't know what to do that is why I am here . No she knows nothing about this site. I am just so f'ed up over this whole thing. Yea I am looking for a magic wand (which I guess all the others had) but hey I can take advice just don't treat me like a stupid MF cause I don't know what you know. Or. Have not learned what you have


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

LASTIME said:


> Thanks for all the replies,
> I am like this on the whole thing
> 
> 1. I love this woman with every fiber of my being.
> ...


You are correct on many of your insights. You want a definitive answer right now, but be aware that arriving at an answer is often more of a process than an event. 

Give yourself time and frequent breaks from obsessing over the situation. Otherwise you just exhaust yourself and don't make any more progress than if you had distracted yourself with something pleasant. 

Tell your wife that you reserve the right to make new decisions and change old ones according to how long it takes you to process this mess. She has no right to dictate the time frame you will travel. Good luck.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Lasttime, I don't get the difficulty with what to do. I understand love, but I also understand taking care of yourself too. Wife cheats on you at least twice with different men. Who knows how many more you don't know about. IMHO, reconciling should be reserved for situations involving kids. Without kids in the mix, there is nothing holding you there. Love that isn't reciprocated is a waste if time. Painful, yes. But also a waste of valuable time too.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

Outside of anything anyone else tells you, what is the underlying mantra that runs through your own mind?

I can see why the overall advice is to run...and likely they are trying to save you the pain they've gone through or have seen others go through.

But it is your life...because you have no kids, you are in a better position to stop things if ever you are going to. But again, you know her...you know you...and nobody knows everything.

You might read "womens infidelity"... at womensinfidelity.com.

And "Love Must Be Tough" by James Dobson.

You have the grounds to divorce her if your heart is hardened that you cannot forgive her. But it isn't a rule that you "have to"...only if you can't get past it.

I'm in a bit of a limbo phase and my situation is different than yours, but I'm a strong believer in marriage. Good luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LASTIME said:


> I don't know what to do that is why I am here . No she knows nothing about this site. I am just so f'ed up over this whole thing. Yea I am looking for a magic wand (which I guess all the others had) but hey I can take advice just don't treat me like a stupid MF cause I don't know what you know. Or. Have not learned what you have


LASTIME, here is the magic wand, the one truth that we, in all the years, decades, that we've been giving advice, have found:

*Until you can walk away from your wife, you will never have a chance to get her.
*
It is exactly your neediness, your utter desire to keep her, for yourself, your selfishness, your utterly determined ONE GOAL, that is pushing her away.

It's basic psychology. If you need more detail on the psychology, I can provide it. Or you can just believe me that, as long as your ONLY GOAL is to keep her, you will fail.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

MacyLu said:


> I loved my husband, loved my children and my happy home.


Loved your children, you don't love them now ? 



MacyLu said:


> My husband wasn't perfect but I was completely and totally in love with him to the point my heart ached when he'd go off hunting in the fall.


Yeah i don't buy this, if you love someone you won't cheat like you did



MacyLu said:


> I would never put another husband or child through that living hell called divorce and I take my marriage vows seriously, with complete conviction, to my current husband of 15 years. I love him completely, passionately, and will never take his love for granted. I am so very happy and sometimes have to pinch myself just to make sure I'm not dreaming - sometimes I feel guilty that I rebounded so nicely, maybe undeservingly so.


I hope your first husband, the father of your children whose heart you trampled on can be as happy as you, deservingly so


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

Daniel:

Your post is unhelpful, uncalled for, and out of place on this thread.

Please withdraw it.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

2asdf2 said:


> Daniel:
> 
> Your post is unhelpful, uncalled for, and out of place on this thread.
> 
> Please withdraw it.


This is a public forum and it's my personal opinion. You don't have to agree with it and i don't have to withdraw it. If it's really uncalled for and out of the line i'm sure the mod will remove it.

And i stand by my word, if you really "completely and totally" in love with someone you won't cheat on them because you respect and don't want to hurt them. The love of your life vs a piece of a**. More like the WS love him/herself much better.
Cheating is lying and selfserving, it’s breaking trust and it proves that you care so little about your partner as a lover, friend and as a human being. The lie, the humiliation, the anger that cheating caused. 

The last sentence was a fact, no ? She did cheat on him and trampled (her own word) his heart, affair really scr*w the BS for a very long time, most likely the BS will never be able to trust someone 100%. I truly hope this man and all BSs everywhere who chose divorce can be happy again


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

LT,

I'm all about R... But, you have seen the future, it's your present. No kids, she is a Serial Cheater, do you want to wait until she brings home a nasty STD. Sorry for you, but time to move on.


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## kwood (Feb 9, 2015)

read my post under kwood my wife did it to me in 08 /10 and now in 2015.i stood by her and tried to change a be a better husband.and make her happy .and I could not.it hurts the worst pain I have ever felt.but please don't be a fool like me move on rebuild.and have a better life.ask your self this how would you ever trust her again.you cant .the people on here give great advive.be strong and belive me it is not easy .but you can do it.


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## LASTIME (Feb 4, 2015)

kwood said:


> read my post under kwood my wife did it to me in 08 /10 and now in 2015.i stood by her and tried to change a be a better husband.and make her happy .and I could not.it hurts the worst pain I have ever felt.but please don't be a fool like me move on rebuild.and have a better life.ask your self this how would you ever trust her again.you cant .the people on here give great advive.be strong and belive me it is not easy .but you can do it.


Yea ripping the rose colored lenses from your eyeballs is no fun at all.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Situations like this is why I usually tell people to divorce at the first sign of infidelity. OP could have gotten out during the first PA around the 3 year mark of his marriage without too much damage aside from the emotional. Now he is buried deep at the 12 year mark. Depending on location and circumstances, lifetime alimony is now in the cards. 

Still, no kids and a serial cheater. The answer should be self evident.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

LASTIME said:


> She does have good values and knows right from wrong,leadership position in the church. I know I sound like a stupid blind moron and may be, I was just wondering if anybody here had work through two and made. I've personally never seen it and I have seen plenty. you know one is bad enough.


 Your serious? Values and knows right from wrong. She cheated on you, you forgave her and she did it again so you tell me how she has good values and knows right from wrong.

IMO, cheating is a deal breaker and I give credit to people who somehow work through it and salvage the marriage but lets face it friend, open your eyes and understand that she hasn't learned anything except that she can cheat and you'll do nothing.

You need to put your big boy pants on and drop the hammer real hard and get her out of your life because as long as you continue to look the other way, she's going to continue to tear you apart piece by piece, limb by limb. Get a lawyer, file and have her served with the papers. Then she'll know that she pushed to to your limit and it's over. Then don't be bashful and you let everyone know the reason for it because if you don't I can promise you she'll find a way to twist it around to where you get the blame.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

This is not about the both of you..I've read three affairs, albeit one was just texting am I right? The first PA you said YOU went all in, sounds like she pulled the same stunt she's pulling now which obviously makes it difficult because I bet it would be easier if she acted unremorseful and yet "acting" remorseful appealing to the very core of the betrayed mainly because you want so much to fix everything and have a loving wife back.

Problem is this isn't yours to fix is it? I keep reading I don't want to fail, you love her with every fibre of your being.. again you, you, you.

Very gently, this has nothing to do with you.

As evidenced by her affairs, the minute an OM shows interest, you're as far away from her thoughts and her interests become number 1.

Nothing wrong with the romanticized version of life, but you're clinging onto fairies and unicorns and hope whilst she repeatedly drags you into the real world to confront these very real scenerios she keeps putting herself in.

Can you even see yourself being alone? 
Are you afraid if you say it's over, she's going to run and never look back.
If that's the reason you're holding on hoping things will change isn't that reasoning flawed?

She does this because she can. She does this because time and time again when caught she hasn't lost you so she has nothing to lose. And yes if you told her it's over she might run and never look back but man, why hold onto someone who doesn't want you back?

I could go to the store, steal candy and walk out even though the owners have seen me.
Next time they might install cameras that watch me go in and steal some more candy.
What's stopping me from stealing more candy if the owners don't call the police and have me arrested for my actions?

There are consequences in life for certain actions. Be mindful of the lessons you have taught your wife about how you want to be treated because so far she has maintained her life and nothing has changed with exception of increased surveillance.

Are you waiting for the forth time she says she's sorry for stepping outside the marriage again?


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

LASTIME said:


> I don't know what to do that is why I am here . No she knows nothing about this site. I am just so f'ed up over this whole thing. Yea I am looking for a magic wand (which I guess all the others had) but hey I can take advice just don't treat me like a stupid MF cause I don't know what you know. Or. Have not learned what you have


There's 4 little words to help you get out of this mess:

"I want a divorce"

Whether you actually get a D or choose R doesn't matter, this is the first step to both. You had let her get away with cheating on you before so she thought she could do it again (and did). You "rewarded" her basically last time she did this, don't do it again.

She doesn't respect you and that's something you need to accept. You also need to realize that she may never stop cheating no matter what you do. There are generally 2 types of cheaters, one that do it once and are remorseful and never do it again and serial cheaters that never stop cheating. Looks like she's a type 2.


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## pryorrichard73 (Mar 3, 2015)

LASTIME said:


> New here so I hope this is the right place,
> Here is the rundown,
> Married to WW 12 years, together 17 her first EA lasting six months turning into PA the last month and happening twice was three years into the M (2006). We wanted to save the M so I put my head down and went all in, I think/thought she did to. A year of counseling, renewed vows and a lot of hard work and seemed like everything was good. Two years later(2008) was some inappropriate texting with another guy, she wasn't deleting the text and they were not sexual or suggestive in any way but imo any texting with any man other than me is inappropriate when it is done just casually with no real reason. I strongly stated my stance on this and it stopped. Everything good as it could be from then until Jan 23 2015 I monitored her actions, phone, computer, FB and all that. The transparency was there the whole time through 2013 when I thought I was just wasting time after finding nothing for five years and quit. Then D-day I was making up the bed and her phone fell on the floor and I thought, well been awhile so I checked it and there were text between one of her friends that another guys name was mentioned (she used to work with him). I immediately confronted her and she started the T.T. and said it had been going on since May 2014 which is when he left the job(the evidence backs that up). and It was only flirty innuendo type stuff, after a week the whole truth came out and it had turned into a PA the last month before I found out and happened twice. So here I am now and need help/opinions on if this M is even salvageable at this point. The first A was exposed to the OMW, our pastor,my sister and one of her close friends and that was it(I feel the less people in your business the better off you are). She was totally remorseful and did everything that I asked with no hesitation or hurry and I feel like she was honest about everything. The same this time too though, she says she knows she has a problem and is willing to do what ever it takes to get it straightened out. She compared it to a drug addict that does right until they take that first hit again and then it just will not go away(the rush she gets when another man pays her attention even though she says I am good at that but not perfect). Anybody out there worked through two As and came out better on the other end. Just needed some of that been there to advice/input.


Im experienced in being cheated on. Sadly my future ex just got caught letting a man stay with her who 2 years earlier was driving her car on Halloween 2013. She knew him from College, my future ex went to college late in LIFE. She met the guy 4 years ago and kept talking to him even after I asked her to stop and claimed she told him to stop calling her.

Then I find her letting him use her car on Halloween 2013 and spoke to him directly about it. Now fast forward to Last week. Me and my Wife were living apart but, the agreement was we are trying to fix us. We have a talk she dislikes and all Im asking is how can we fix us etc., shes frustrated and leaves and then comes back(last Saturday) and tells me when she returns Im done.

I thought it was odd but, she did it and nothing I could do. The next week she and I were going to couples therapy and before it I decided to go by her place as GOD told me go to her home and surprise her before the session and leave from her house its much closer(I live 45 minutes from the session for therapy and she lives 10 minutes away). So when I get their I knock on the door thinking she will be their chilling as she earlier at noon told me she would do as we spoke on the phone while she did some errands. When I knocked the door came ajar, Im shocked thought it was strange maybe she ran to her car and would be back so after I walked in her living area and back out I looed for her car in the apartment parking lot.

No car so now Im afraid. Went slowly and quiet to search her place to make sure nothing was wrong and found it. His clothes in her house and shaving kit etc., and I knew then it was bad. It was the same guy driving her car and when I saw her before therapy I gave her a chance to be truthful and she wasnt. Finally after 20 times asking she told me it was the same guy and then i saw it was over.

He told me they NEVER slept together and her but, did I need proof? NO even if no sex was going on she still kept this man around for a reason. 

My point of my story, dont wait on the next hurt like I did. If this is her first cheat or 2nd one, walk away even if you dont want to like I did. I was cheated on by her 3 times before and its a pattern sir. She is who she is.

Woman dont leave men they want and what you have to see that I finally did after GOD was kind enough to let me hurt and see is she wanted no parts of me if she couldnt do this. EVen if they werent sexing she NEVER stopped talking to him. Come on we are adults on this site and we know my future ex wife was sexing him. The same man pops up over and over.

Heres what I learned sir and I feel for you. If you want something you get it. If you dont you dont. When a man or woman decide to see another person we blame ourselves and say,"It was my fault she or he wsnt happy I didnt try hard enough and I feel shes honest or hes honest" and SADLY thats bull.

We say that to ease our PAIN. Heres the truth about me. MY WIFE WAS CHEATING IF IT WAS SEX OR NOT and would he be their if she stayed with me? NO, sometimes the hardest truth is the one we dont like.Woman move on unlike men and your wife didnt meet her ONE thats why she wants to stay. Woman are smart they play mind games. Shes playing you and Im warning you leave. I was warned many times before years ago and stayed. 

If shes doing as i read sir shes interested in other men meaning something she wants you dont give and it doesnt mean sex, woman get bored. When they say Im bored their gone. My woman said I was boring a while ago and now shes GONE!!! You are the victim, show her shes not your GOD leave her and make her wait on you establish yourself as the man and make her see she cant treat you that way. Once a woman sees you as weak, she done and will do as she pleases until you stop her. LGNM


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## pryorrichard73 (Mar 3, 2015)

BobSimmons said:


> This is not about the both of you..I've read three affairs, albeit one was just texting am I right? The first PA you said YOU went all in, sounds like she pulled the same stunt she's pulling now which obviously makes it difficult because I bet it would be easier if she acted unremorseful and yet "acting" remorseful appealing to the very core of the betrayed mainly because you want so much to fix everything and have a loving wife back.
> 
> Problem is this isn't yours to fix is it? I keep reading I don't want to fail, you love her with every fibre of your being.. again you, you, you.
> 
> ...


This is the best way I have seen a person tell someone they need to move on I did the same thing and let my wife cheat and your right i let her do me dirty and she kept doing it. Woman and men who cheat are who they are. She is a serial cheater as my wife is(future ex) and it hurt because you think being nice changes it. It doesnt but what does is growing a backbone when I told my future ex I was done with her she tried to back track and thats what cheaters respond to, when you let them know no more or walk away.

Now dont take her back sir. If you do you will regret it. Its to much damage. She thinks she can do it again once you take her back so save yourself the years I didnt. Find a woman who loves you and let time heal your wounds like me. It will be some crying but like this poster said, its not your fault but, you have to end it now because if we could steal and suffer nothing for our acts, wouldnt we all? LGNM


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## LASTIME (Feb 4, 2015)

I am a little confused here are y'all sayin serve papers on her


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you ever Google serial cheaters and see the likely hood they can change is almost zero?


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## LASTIME (Feb 4, 2015)

Hey I was just being a SA & I am starting to understand where this is coming to she slapped me in the face with the A so slap her in the face with D and let the cards fall where they may. Then go from there and live on


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

I would download and read "womens infidelity."
It might shine a light things that you can take with you either way you go.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

LASTIME said:


> Hey I was just being a SA & I am starting to understand where this is coming to she slapped me in the face with the A so slap her in the face with D and let the cards fall where they may. Then go from there and live on


I do not recommend slapping her in the face with anything, but taking her down to the basement and strapping her to the work bench for a hard spanking... might show you how remorseful she really is....ya I'm wired different then most.

Having her served will show you were her head is at.

The cool thing about having her served is if you two work this crap out that paper work is stashed in the back of your lawyers desk just waiting for her to phuck up again....that my friend will show your old lady were your head is at!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We are telling you to SHOW her that you won't just sit there and wait for her to choose you once she's done screwing every guy in town.

That you RESPECT yourself too much to be her punching bag.

That she can act like a sl*t but you don't have to accept it.

Does that make more sense?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

LASTIME said:


> Hey I was just being a SA & I am starting to understand where this is coming to she slapped me in the face with the A so slap her in the face with D and let the cards fall where they may. Then go from there and live on


 She has had 3 emotional affairs (EA) that you know of. Two of them turned into physical affairs (PA), again that you know of. She may usually be a nice person, but she is a serial cheater. That is just who she is. It does not matter why, all that matters is that she has enjoyed other men and let other men enjoy her. She wants to be married to a cuckold, and if you agree to stay in this marriage, that is who you would be. This is how cuckolds are made.

Knowing what you know about her willingness to cheat, you know that it would unfair to children to ever bring them into your marriage with her. If you ever plan to have children, you need to find a faithful wife that understands the vows of marriage.


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## Welsh15 (Feb 24, 2014)

LASTIME said:


> No kids


Then time to kick her to the curb...


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

LASTIME said:


> No kids


A nice easy one for a change.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

File for divorce though it hurts. Tell her you hate it but if she wants to be the town bicycle she should be single. Tell her having to wear a condom to protect yourself from herpes and aids your wife might be carrying is a tad outside what you think marriage is about. Then ask her how many men you don't know about.

Have you read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER yet? There are certain boundaries and attitudes a man must have to be respected by women. From your posts I can't see you have read this yet. There is a link below and you can download it at amazon.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I personally don't think she'll learn until she's seen the back of you, at least temporarily.

Think of "By The Time I Get To Phoenix"-- 
"she just didn't know that I would really go".


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

LASTIME said:


> I am a little confused here are y'all sayin serve papers on her


I was served papers (because I was too much of a wuss to do it myself) and yet we still R'd afterwards. It's a tool to show you are taking this seriously PLUS if you do end up taking the D route you are that much ahead of the game.

Outside of a couple hundred bucks (depending on where you live) you have nothing to lose drawing up papers, you can cancel it later.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Getting served D papers may not change how she acts towards, or she feels about, you, - But at this point it's probably the only that will ever get her to consider to stop cheating on you.

Otherwise, the title of you next thread will be "After the third time".


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> Then ask her how many men you don't know about.


:iagree::iagree::iagree: Studies show that most affairs go undetected by the spouse. Odds are that if there were 3, that you know about, that there were more.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LASTIME said:


> I am a little confused here are y'all sayin serve papers on her


Assuming that (a) she really does love you, (b) she's _in love_ w/ you (which, honestly, seems very unlikely), and (c) she wants to stay in your marriage, she's not going to change unless she feels that she has to do so in order to avoid divorce.

In other words, she has to KNOW that you WILL divorce her before she'll truly turn from her adulterous ways.

Next comes the realization (for you) that _there is a difference between *filing for divorce* and *actually divorcing*._ Once you've filed, you can cancel the divorce at any time, though I'd obviously suggest not doing so until you're satisfied that she's fully recommitted herself to you and your marriage.

Now... having said all of ^that^, let me now say this... while having your WW served w/ divorce papers will likely put a very palpable fear of divorce into her, I'm personally of the opinion that one shouldn't file for divorce as a tactic for preserving one's marriage. *BUT*... I wouldn't hesitate to file if I felt that the circumstances warranted doing so... and boy do yours ever fit the bill.

However, were your circumstances my own, _my goal in filing for divorce *would be to actually divorce*._


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Lasttime

Read my thread in my signature labeled, mymistake.. 

It will show you what not to do.. 

I tried the begging and Pleading.. The crying with snot coming out of my nose.. The hugging the legs saying please don't do this, I will be whatever you want me to be.. I will do anything.. 

It didn't work.. She just tore me up even worse.. 

Sadly if you can't be really strong about this and let her know that you will not take her sh!t.. You will basically going down the road I did.. Trust me when I tell you it is a LONG and painful road.. Pain to the point of considering suicide.. 

My Ex wife had several EA and possibly a PA that I didn't know about and my brother took to his grave, until I caught her on the last PA.. 

Trust me you cannot fix her.. She needs to fix herself.. I went to counseling and so did my Ex wife for years.. Every time something happen we would go back.. Yes things seemed better for a while but in the end it was all a lie.. 

With no kids, there is nothing wrong with separating and seeing what she does with this new found freedom.. Does she work to fix this with you or run off and be a single woman ?

You just can't keep them if they don't want to stay.. And you will come to learn that the more you try to keep them it works against you.. 

Again read my story.. Only after it was too late was I able to turn this around to my advantage in other ways.. 

Look back then, my Ex wife was 48 and I was 45.. The world revolved around my wife.. I would have stopped the sun from spinning if she asked me.. She left me for a man almost 10 years older than me, and little to no income, a foot shorter than me ( I'm 6'3").. She pretty much left her kids as well.

Today I have a woman 10 years younger than my wife, much more attractive ( as others here know about, yet another issue ) and makes over 100k a year.. The kids live with me and my Ex wife pays me child support..

But I had to go through A LOT of pain to get there.. 

My point is at this stage of the game you think they are the world and then eventually you realize they are not..

The best, best thing that happen to me was that my ex wife forced this divorce on me.. Otherwise I would be going through this again another few years from now with the Ex wife if we reconciled.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

LASTIME said:


> I don't know what to do that is why I am here . No she knows nothing about this site. I am just so f'ed up over this whole thing. Yea I am looking for a magic wand (which I guess all the others had) but hey I can take advice just don't treat me like a stupid MF cause I don't know what you know. Or. Have not learned what you have


Dear LASTIME,

Your rebellion against the manifestly unremarkable advice you are receiving reminds me of my dear, departed father's favorite saying:



> “Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other, and scarce in that.”
> ― Benjamin Franklin, _ Poor Richard's Almanack_


If you want help, you have to be willing to accept the wisdom of others, however they choose to convey it. At the moment, like the foil of Ben's aphorism, you seem unable to learn either from others or your own experience.

This bodes ill for your future.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah, get someone hotter, because that solves everything. Don't bother looking for a woman with character or anything. If all you care about is hot you deserve whatever you get.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ok, get a hotter, younger, non-cheating natural blond with values, decent shoe size... low mainentance, low drag, beauty!

thats what i meant. younger hotter is guy speak. he knows what I mean...


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

tacoma said:


> While QTips advice isn't the best for a guy looking for a life partner it is most definately good advice for a guy who is having trouble letting go of the woman he thought would be his life partner.
> 
> It's the first step towards healing and figuring out what you do want in a wife/SO.


dduh! same response just posted. guys aren't than shallow... i hope anyway.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

shell do whatever it takes... except for the cheating part, but everything else. cant be that hard. shes proven it already. everything else but.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Any updates Lastime?

How are you doing?


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