# so difficult



## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Doing any kind of 180 because it's the total opposite of my feelings. 

How do I learn to unlove and detach from someone who was my soulmate for 15 years? Someone who chose and chooses to not love me. Maybe it's continually reminding myself how my wife changed and that she is no longer the woman I loved at all. Also, she may have psychological issues that prevent her from being committed to the marriage and loving anyone at this point (without consciously realizing it). 


It would be easier to do if I were angry and mad. That would then lead me to treat her horribly out of my emotions. I did that months ago and it just ratcheted things up in a negative way, causing stress.

But, to remain civil, or friendly even (without hoping or acting like her bff) is very challenging. However, remaining civil leaves open the small possibility of any kind of reconciliation in the future. It may or may not happen and I have no control over it. Only me. Maybe in time she'll see my positive changes in all areas in my life and see that they are real and lasting. Maybe, but.

I suppose it is the absolutely no contact whatsoever unless it is children related. Nothing initiated on my end, unless necessary regarding children. Any drop-off/pick up must be quick and short. No joint family time.

That answer would push me over into the bitter side where I would resent all of this and be mad. In addition, our children wouldn't see us getting along like we have; just pursuing transactions.

I'm just trying to think things through now. I am sure I'll hear a range of options, from no contact, to screw her, to continue to focus on me, etc.


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## Mothra777 (Apr 10, 2012)

The past couple of weeks I have been going through precisely what you are going through now and I have been married for 17 years.

The only difference is that I have now found evidence that she is visiting dating sites behind my back and lying to me. So my depression has now turned to anger unfortunately.

Last week my depression as so severe I ended up at the doctors and he prescribed a mild dose of anti-depressants. They have helped me sleep and think much more clearly than before. They are not a solution to the situation but certainly help in navigating the mess that is a separation.

I have also been attending individual counselling (as well as marriage counselling with her) and that has also helped raise my self esteem and lift my mood a bit.

I am also doing the 180 but it is no longer to save my marriage - I think I have lost her for good. But it does make you feel better about yourself and set you up for being attractive to another person in the future if she decides never to come back.

Good luck with it. I totally emphasize with you. It is a horrible place to be.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Mothra777 said:


> The past couple of weeks I have been going through precisely what you are going through now and I have been married for 17 years.
> 
> The only difference is that I have now found evidence that she is visiting dating sites behind my back and lying to me. So my depression has now turned to anger unfortunately.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I understand the 180. I just have to start consistently applying it and stop the wayward thoughts. Easier said than done.

I just wonder how and why my wife changed and ended up where she did. Obviously, our marriage encountered rough spots and there was misery on both sides with no communication. Now, that we both realize it, only one of us (me) is willing to do anything to save the marriage. For us. For the children.

There are a few reasons why I think it may be psychological on her end. And, maybe by believing that, it can make it easier to get through this in a friendly manner. Almost like she has a condition that prevents her from loving and being committed.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

Jayb said:


> There are a few reasons why I think it may be psychological on her end. And, maybe by believing that, it can make it easier to get through this in a friendly manner. Almost like she has a condition that prevents her from loving and being committed.


That is a really interesting way of looking at it. I think the "condition" my stbxw suffers from is the fog. 
Intersting Jayb. 

Ending friendly didn't happen for me. We were so close but it has transformed to civil. I hope you can make it if that is really what is best.

Good stuff Jayb.


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## cherokee96red (Apr 23, 2011)

Jayb said:


> Doing any kind of 180 because it's the total opposite of my feelings.
> 
> How do I learn to unlove and detach from someone who was my soulmate for 15 years? Someone who chose and chooses to not love me. Maybe it's continually reminding myself how my wife changed and that she is no longer the woman I loved at all. Also, she may have psychological issues that prevent her from being committed to the marriage and loving anyone at this point (without consciously realizing it).
> 
> ...



In my own situation, keeping to the 180 is easier some weeks than others. This is one of the not so easy weeks and right now every moment is a battle for me. Lieceratops still doesn't get it. He keeps asking DS why I won't talk to him on the phone. Seriously? I don't initiate contact with him, save for biz, kids grown. He text me first the other day, I tried my best to simply answer the questions (tax form issue). Then it deterioated into a bullying, threatening, bashing (started by him) session that I allowed myself to be goaded into participating in. When he in a single text he said "fvck you, get a lawyer, I'm cuttin' off your phone", I forwarded that to both kids'. Such a kneejerk reaction, shouldn't have done it as it served no purpose other than to upset DD, probably upset DS but he didn't say so to me. 

So, once again, I'm struggling to adhere to the 180, for me. Last week was so good when there was nothing from him.

It is so hard, esp. after 25 yrs to detach, focus on me, and "move on".


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You don't have to unlove the person. In fact, you do this out of love. Love for your mate and love for yourself. Why? Because you WILL NOT stand for any more bullshet.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

cherokee96red said:


> In my own situation, keeping to the 180 is easier some weeks than others. This is one of the not so easy weeks and right now every moment is a battle for me. Lieceratops still doesn't get it. He keeps asking DS why I won't talk to him on the phone. Seriously? I don't initiate contact with him, save for biz, kids grown. He text me first the other day, I tried my best to simply answer the questions (tax form issue). Then it deterioated into a bullying, threatening, bashing (started by him) session that I allowed myself to be goaded into participating in. When he in a single text he said "fvck you, get a lawyer, I'm cuttin' off your phone", I forwarded that to both kids'. Such a kneejerk reaction, shouldn't have done it as it served no purpose other than to upset DD, probably upset DS but he didn't say so to me.
> 
> So, once again, I'm struggling to adhere to the 180, for me. Last week was so good when there was nothing from him.
> 
> It is so hard, esp. after 25 yrs to detach, focus on me, and "move on".



I could see anger motivating to keep to the 180 in your particular situation. Afterall, you don't deserve that treatment.

In my case, there has never been arguing, abuse, affairs, addictions. From the outside looking in, we were the ideal marriage. However, we ended up as friends/roommates with children. So, when my wife suggested separation, and I filed for divorce, and then thinking upon it, I realized I have always loved my wife, still do. She stopped sometime ago. She requested to be friends. She loves me but is not in love with me. 

I, however, still love her. So now, I have to "unlove" her in a way that allows for friendship, but nothing more.

And considering there is no other man. That she'd rather be by herself than with me (undergoing positive changes) and our children makes it that more difficult.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

sd212 said:


> That is a really interesting way of looking at it. I think the "condition" my stbxw suffers from is the fog.
> Intersting Jayb.
> 
> Ending friendly didn't happen for me. We were so close but it has transformed to civil. I hope you can make it if that is really what is best.
> ...



It may be fog as well. She craves fantasy--along the lines of the highs of the first 2 years of a relationship. I know that mental issues run in her family. Added were a few other factors to create a perfect storm that convinced her she could/should and can leave.

If she doesn't seriously address her issues, I'd bet the house her next relationship (without me) will fail.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Jayb: I can relate to what you're saying. I think I'm a further along in the detachment from spouse process than you but just last night when I was leaving my old apt my STBXW had a nice conversation and was wearing her sleeping clothes (kind of sexy) and I felt like hugging her - there was a connection. Perhaps I was just horny, don't know. 

This is what I can tell you. You don't have to hate your ex. The key here for you to regain your wife or move on with your life is to understand that no one on this earth is worth you putting yourself down for. You deserve to be happy and no one except you should have control over your life. You and ex were not born tied at the hip. You can live without her. You just have to build up confidence (that's what the 180 is for) and set yourself up for success in all aspects of your life. 

Another thing ... don't fall into the trap of thinking that the reason she can't love you/show you appreciation is because she has some kind of disease. My STBXW has dealt with depression/low self esteem issues for a long time since her teenage years before she met me. I stayed and took a lot of abuse from her in our marriage thinking she just didn't know better and her condition dictated her actions. Well she was a good friend to her friends and lover to OM with no problems which to me meant that it was all BS. 

Even if she has a condition ... to escape the situation and free yourself from it you have to adopt the mindset that this is not your problem. If he has a problem she has to deal with it and try to fix her issues herself. 

But this is what's most telling and I hope you think about it: If it was you who had the "problem" say you had a condition that prevent you from loving her, would she stick with you unconditionally and love you nonetheless? 

My STBXW in her crazy way not only didn't thank me for sticking around and loving her regardless of her faults, she portrayed me as the crazy one who needed directions, in her own words "a failure" and blamed me for all the stuff she was doing to me (projection).


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## melissa68 (Feb 10, 2012)

JayB I wish I had the answer for you. I just wanted to let you know you're not alone in those feelings. I've been going through the same with my stbxh as of late. I have days/even weeks where I feel strong, am making plans to move on...feel like I've accepted we're not going to be together and then I have days like the last few where just the littlest bit of contact from him...good or bad, sends me in a tailspin and I'm a mess again.

I think maybe the 180 is not something you can just say I'm going to do that...and thats that...its just going to have to be a conscious effort from minute to minute, day to day....I'm going to try to start again today...its all I can do for my peace of mind


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Jayb,
Brother you know me and you have been connected for awhile, going through similar things. You mentioned that you have to "unlove" her. I used to think that too. I realize that I have to switch my definition of "love" for my stbxw. I have to change the love from that of "wife" to "mother" of my children.

It is the hardest thing I've had to do. Will a part of my heart always love her, YES!!! However, that doesn't change what I have to do with the 180. Remember, the 180 is not about winning her back, it's about making you strong, being able to stand on your own, prepare you for the worse.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

At some point you have to make the concerted decision to detach from your feelings. I've said it before and I'll say it again: walkaways are far worse than cheaters, because they are cowards from the start and are too cowardly to ever give you all the answers that you seek. 

J, the reason you cannot disengage is because your wife has offered you no closure. She is selfish, immature and a coward. This knowledge is enough in and of itself to despise her. Start despising her. She has done nothing to merit your respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> At some point you have to make the cncerted decision to detach from your feelings. I've said it before and I'll say it again: walkaways are far worse than cheaters, because they are cowards from the start and are too cowardly to ever give you all the answers that you seek.
> 
> J, the reason you cannot disengage is because your wife has offered you no closure. She is selfish, immature and a coward. This knowledge is enough in and of itself to despise her. Start despising her. She has done nothing to merit your respect.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Totally agree. My IC says the same about me and my stbxh. 

Focus on what she has done to end this and despise her for that if you need to. You tried and she has stopped.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Jayb: I can relate to what you're saying. I think I'm a further along in the detachment from spouse process than you but just last night when I was leaving my old apt my STBXW had a nice conversation and was wearing her sleeping clothes (kind of sexy) and I felt like hugging her - there was a connection. Perhaps I was just horny, don't know.
> 
> This is what I can tell you. You don't have to hate your ex. The key here for *you to regain your wife or move on with your life is to understand that no one on this earth is worth you putting yourself down for. You deserve to be happy and no one except you should have control over your life. You and ex were not born tied at the hip. You can live without her. You just have to build up confidence (that's what the 180 is for) and set yourself up for success in all aspects of your life. *
> Another thing ... don't fall into the trap of thinking that the reason she can't love you/show you appreciation is because she has some kind of disease. My STBXW has dealt with depression/low self esteem issues for a long time since her teenage years before she met me. I stayed and took a lot of abuse from her in our marriage thinking she just didn't know better and her condition dictated her actions. Well she was a good friend to her friends and lover to OM with no problems which to me meant that it was all BS.
> ...



I lost myself somewhere in the marriage. Became consumed with my wife and then my children, while at the same time getting caught up in everyday routines. I became depressed too, and was on meds, but stopped talking to my wife. Communication severely declined was lacking between both of us.

Now, I'm going through separation/divorce with my wife, at the same time, I am slowly coming out of a depression/social withdrawal. When people suggest hanging out with friends, I ask what friends. My friends were my children and wife. Never did typical "guys night out." My interests and hobbies died out, especially over the past 3 years. My past 3-4 years can be described as being in a severe grey/funk. Drank everyday to numb the pain.

1 of the roles my wife assumed, resented and ultimately came to despise was the caretaker role. In her mind, she took care of ME in most areas in my life. I never asked her to. She just assumed that role. And she felt I didn't reciprocate the caring aspect towards her. Also, I didn't stop her from acting that role. I accepted it as normal.

So, now I'm in emotional pain, her caretaking role wants to help me, but she hates doing it, but she feels so much guilt at not helping me, etc. Viscious circle. 

I'm learning independence; making financial decisions, etc. It's the emotional aspect that is so overwhelming at the moment.


I doubt she would stay if I had that same condition. Her level of commitment is far less than I ever imagined.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> Jayb,
> Brother you know me and you have been connected for awhile, going through similar things. You mentioned that you have to "unlove" her. I used to think that too. I realize that I have to switch my definition of "love" for my stbxw. I have to change the love from that of "wife" to "mother" of my children.
> 
> *It is the hardest thing I've had to do*. Will a part of my heart always love her, YES!!! However, that doesn't change what I have to do with the 180. Remember, the 180 is not about winning her back, it's about making you strong, being able to stand on your own, prepare you for the worse.



That's why some moments are better than others. And why I doubt I'll make it through this.

I don't understand how someone so close to us can change so drastically into someone else.

Again, imo, it would be easier to deal with if there were no children involved. We could both move on. But, we'll always be involved with each other, for the rest of our children's lives. Right now, my love of our children and desire to be with them, ensures plenty of interaction around my wife. To be around her and make that flip from "wife love" to "mother of children" is slow-going and hard.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> Totally agree. My IC says the same about me and my stbxh.
> 
> Focus on what she has done to end this and despise her for that if you need to. You tried and she has stopped.


That's just it, though. If I despise her for what she's done, I get mad. I get bitter. I hate her! That can build and spill over to other areas in my life. How can I be open to others and love others with such despise?

I thought I could slowly let her go, realizing she's not coming back, and not hoping or misinterpreting anything unless coming directly from her mouth and initiative.

I'll say this again. When I'm around her, it's not like it used to be. There's nothing there. It's the part when I leave, or am not around her when I miss the past, or wonder why, or wish and hope, etc.

I want to spend as much time around my children as possible (even on her days). Maybe if I limit all interaction with her and make it all about them during that time, I'd appreciate investing that time in them.


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## hldnhope (Apr 10, 2012)

> I doubt she would stay if I had that same condition. Her level of commitment is far less than I ever imagined.


WOW, do our stories sound similar... had to double-check a few times to make sure this wasn't me. The 'Roommate' line is perfect. Anyways, I have been doing ALOT of reflecting and thinking lately and have come to the realization (FINALLY) that all that time that I was withdrawn, and not there for my W on her emotional level, she was the one that was already trying to 'fix' us and run the household, and put on a 'happy front' for the kids when inside she was emotionally drained. Maybe you're just misreading her 'level of commitment' and she just doesn't have the energy right now to put forth much of an effort...


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

hldnhope said:


> WOW, do our stories sound similar... had to double-check a few times to make sure this wasn't me. The 'Roommate' line is perfect. Anyways, I have been doing ALOT of reflecting and thinking lately and have come to the realization (FINALLY) that all that time that I was withdrawn, and not there for my W on her emotional level, she was the one that was already trying to 'fix' us and run the household, and put on a 'happy front' for the kids when inside she was emotionally drained. Maybe you're just misreading her 'level of commitment' and she just doesn't have the energy right now to put forth much of an effort...


Well, there have been other episodes that have exposed her level of commitment. Maybe she doesn't have energy, now. I wish she would have communicated to me back then. Even to say, hey, I'm miserable because of such and such. We need therapy. I'm not happy. Instead, I heard nothing from her. We never tried to repair our marriage the way we should have. By consciously reflecting and working and communicating, etc. Appreciating the moment. 

It was too easy for us in the past, because as soon as there weren't "issues," then, it was easy to slide back into the "married routine" and take each other for granted. Only, slowly to drift apart. 

I think we lived crisis to crisis. In the meantime, left with each other, there were few love cultivating activities between us. Which left us as friends.


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## Mothra777 (Apr 10, 2012)

Jayb said:


> In my case, there has never been arguing, abuse, affairs, addictions. From the outside looking in, we were the ideal marriage. However, we ended up as friends/roommates with children. So, when my wife suggested separation, and I filed for divorce, and then thinking upon it, I realized I have always loved my wife, still do. She stopped sometime ago. She requested to be friends. She loves me but is not in love with me.
> .


Wow - this is pretty much identical to my situation. So I know exactly how you are feeling right now. All the best with it. It will be a tough road but the focus should now be on the kids and yourself. My counsellor suggested to me to only focus on the present and try not dwell on the past or fear the future. She also advised to only focus on things that you can control.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

Mothra,
That is the one thing that has helped me get somewhat better, focus on the hear and now. THe past is done, I can't change it, I can't live the good memories again. The future is not written. I only have what is in front of me. Hard advice to live, but once you do you will feel better.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> Mothra,
> That is the one thing that has helped me get somewhat better, focus on the hear and now. THe past is done, I can't change it, I can't live the good memories again. The future is not written. I only have what is in front of me. Hard advice to live, but once you do you will feel better.



This is good. My emotions overwhelm me when I think about either the past or future. I am struggling right now with past regrets. Then, I fear the future.

All I can control happens right now. And when I look back at the past weeks, months, years, I marvel at how fast things have changed, or by how much, or even what occurred. So, I am not a prisoner of time.

It's just a matter of constantly affirming this when the waves of emotions are battering me.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

proudwidaddy said:


> Mothra,
> That is the one thing that has helped me get somewhat better, focus on the hear and now. THe past is done, I can't change it, I can't live the good memories again. The future is not written. I only have what is in front of me. Hard advice to live, but once you do you will feel better.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This.......


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

It looks like family time, when we all do something together may end sooner, rather than later.

As you all know, on my weekends with the children, I have been the one who invites my wife. On her weekends, with the children, I invite myself to the activity.

My wife said ok to 1 of the day's, but said Sunday, she wants them with herself the entire day, until dropoff with me in the evening. Translation - She's irritated with me being at family time.

I stated that I didn't have to go and told her I realized I invite myself. Just tell me so. Sounds real powerful, right?

My children are so important in all of this. I treasure every minute, and would love to have them more than my 50% share. These family times are a way to hang out with them even more. The interaction between my wife and I is more and more limited, especially if a family friend and parent go with us. And, by inviting her on my weekend, I offer the same "extra" time. 

Is she irritated because family time reminds her of the good times with us as a family? Or, is she clamping down on face time with me? Or, is she quickening the pace to final divorce when she dowsn't have to feel guilty about any of this?

I'm wondering. Because weekends without the children are extra painful since I don't have friends and am still uncomfortable being by myself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jay,

It's likely that your clinging is a real turn-off for her.

So, she rationalizes being mean to you as "necessary"


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

Jayb said:


> I could see anger motivating to keep to the 180 in your particular situation. Afterall, you don't deserve that treatment.
> 
> In my case, there has never been arguing, abuse, affairs, addictions. From the outside looking in, we were the ideal marriage. However, we ended up as friends/roommates with children. So, when my wife suggested separation, and I filed for divorce, and then thinking upon it, I realized I have always loved my wife, still do. She stopped sometime ago. She requested to be friends. She loves me but is not in love with me.
> 
> ...


Jayb, your situation sounds almost identical to mine. I went through an extremely rough couple of months trying to save it...all to no avail. Then one day, I just said "the hell with this" and we got down to planning the seperation. Curiously enough, at that point our relationship seemed to improve...we spent hours and days talking like we have never talked before. Despite that, it was obvious that she was still totally done, although I thought it was a bit ridiculous how we could get on so well like that....I mean, as we were now getting on so well, surely it'd be worth another go? It took me a while to get over that as well.

We put our house on the market and it sold straightaway. I moved into a nice apartment, her into a new house. Totally split everything 50/50, very amicable. Our daughter is adjusting very well and even seems to enjoy having 2 "cool houses and rooms" as she puts it.

Despite some bumps, at no point have I ever done a "hard 180"....personally I think by doing so would only hurt our daughter. I understand that in some splitups that is necessary....but if yours goes as amicable as mine, there's no real need.....IF (and its a big if) you can proceed with falling out of love with your ex while still being friendly with her. I decided that is what I needed to do - get my head to where hers was. After a couple of false starts, I started making real progress with that. I concentrated on my own areas of disappointment with the marriage...all the stuff that id put up with, all the frustrations etc (and would have continued putting up with them....as I believe that's what marriage is all about, compromising) .

After a while, I really started enjoying my own space. I surrounded myself with friends, many of whom had been through the same thing (or much worse) . Even friends far away....talking about it with people who understand really helps so much. As it stands right now, I'm really enjoying my part time single life, part time dad. I'm at the point now where I have really detached any romantic feelings for my stbx (wont work for everybody but having a bit of a fling with someone else really helped me I have to say), and now I feel confident I can maintain a decent enough relationship with the stbx for the sake of our daughter.

If you have got a similar amicable situation....my take on it is that a total hard 180 will do more harm than good. If you can get your probable divorce sorted without lawyers etc you might as well make the best of the friendliness and get everything thrashed out between the two of you over several beers or something. The key though is you need to detach from her romantically. I still do care about my stbx (and her me), but the fact ive been able to put myself in her shoes, so to speak, has been huge.

Like you, I went through a lot of anger about her tearing the family apart....but now to be honest, that's almost become a defence for me - I'm like "she did this " so feel as though I can now do whatever I want. I seem to have gotten here pretty quickly...others take longer (and no doubt I still will have some twinges ahead) but its the only way to go.


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## njdad (Mar 29, 2012)

worrieddad said:


> Jayb, your situation sounds almost identical to mine. I went through an extremely rough couple of months trying to save it...all to no avail. Then one day, I just said "the hell with this" and we got down to planning the seperation. Curiously enough, at that point our relationship seemed to improve...we spent hours and days talking like we have never talked before. Despite that, it was obvious that she was still totally done, although I thought it was a bit ridiculous how we could get on so well like that....I mean, as we were now getting on so well, surely it'd be worth another go? It took me a while to get over that as well.


Man this is hard to read. Exactly where I am at -- my head says she is done, my heart says I'm not. She is so scared to be nice to me for fear that I will take it as a sign of hope. But she is just fine when we are talking about separation/divorce. Makes me mad, sad, lonely, scared. I am trying just to take care of me. I still hold out hope that with time she will change her mind, but, assuming that doesn't happen, maybe I will be able to move on as well.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

worrieddad said:


> Jayb, your situation sounds almost identical to mine. I went through an extremely rough couple of months trying to save it...all to no avail. Then one day, I just said "the hell with this" and we got down to planning the seperation. Curiously enough, at that point our relationship seemed to improve...we spent hours and days talking like we have never talked before. Despite that, it was obvious that she was still totally done, although I thought it was a bit ridiculous how we could get on so well like that....I mean, as we were now getting on so well, surely it'd be worth another go? It took me a while to get over that as well.
> 
> We put our house on the market and it sold straightaway. I moved into a nice apartment, her into a new house. Totally split everything 50/50, very amicable. Our daughter is adjusting very well and even seems to enjoy having 2 "cool houses and rooms" as she puts it.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your input. I told my wife today after a family day, that I invite her or invite myself as a way of extra-time with the children. That's it. I told her I'm sure it will change in the future. She said she understood and nodded. That's it. So, if it's an issue for her, then tell me.

As I was around her today, I am liking her less and less. Maybe because I'm mad at the entire situation. But, also, she isn't the same person I loved. I keep saying this, but I am clinging onto a past version of her and what I assumed our future would be. Both are fantasies. 

I want to remain friends to get through the D. I have to guard myself. Sometimes, if I get mad or irritated, my anger goes to level 8 and I easily start down the hate path. 

And, you're right. I look at her now and areas which I tolerated over years, are straight up annoying now. I couldn't see tolerating them now. Big irritations.

I think any hard 180 would piss her off and kickstart the adversarial relationship we had a few months back. Totally unproductive. That said, our interactions/communication is becoming more and more limited.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

Jayb,
You know, as I progress along at about the same pace as you and some others here, it is becoming more and more clear. You do that family stuff like I had done so much at first. What I'm seeing now is what you felt today. Do I still adore her, yes. But, I'm seeing her for what she is and what she is not. Ultimately, yes, I want our marriage to work but it is over and that is that.

We dwell so much on the 180 around here and I think it is really healthy and all but just not as cut and dry as we would like it to be. For example, I was just not capable of it before no matter how much I read the rules. Now, as I have taken all the bumps and bruises, the 180 is coming naturally. Tonight she was dropping the kids off and I genuinely did not give a rats behind about her, only the kids. She invited herself in which NEVER happens, she sat and talked for a minute. Oh, and I had totally forgotten that tomorrow is our "family" day. She asked when I would be coming over and I honestly had forgotten all about it. This is REAL progress on my part.

I know I'm going on and on but I guess what I'm saying is that I am finally seeing real healing. Not just following 180 rules. I love her so much but in the end, time is helping and things are changing. It sounds like you are also feeling some of these real things and I guess what I'm saying is that the 180 is going to come naturally for all of us. Doing it at the beginning would have been ideal, I absolutely believe it would have brought her back but it wouldn't have been real. I wouldn't have healed and she wouldn't have stayed. 

Gosh, sorry for all the unsolicited opinion here. I'm just really seeing things differently the last couple of days.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

sd212 said:


> Jayb,
> You know, as I progress along at about the same pace as you and some others here, it is becoming more and more clear. You do that family stuff like I had done so much at first. What I'm seeing now is what you felt today. Do I still adore her, yes. But, I'm seeing her for what she is and what she is not. Ultimately, yes, I want our marriage to work but it is over and that is that.
> 
> We dwell so much on the 180 around here and I think it is really healthy and all but just not as cut and dry as we would like it to be. For example, I was just not capable of it before no matter how much I read the rules. Now, as I have taken all the bumps and bruises, the 180 is coming naturally. Tonight she was dropping the kids off and I genuinely did not give a rats behind about her, only the kids. She invited herself in which NEVER happens, she sat and talked for a minute. Oh, and I had totally forgotten that tomorrow is our "family" day. She asked when I would be coming over and I honestly had forgotten all about it. This is REAL progress on my part.
> ...


Hey, I appreciate all your on and ons. I think I relate more to what you are doing rather than the staunch, "do the 180." It's almost as if those advocating strict 180's are like our closest advising us to just move on, get iwth the program, etc. I'm not there, yet.

Little by little, I am realizing and actually thinking about all of her negatives. Things that irritated me. Her failures. Her new differences that don't gel with me. Etc.

Those things are inspiring me to the 180's.

I appreciate any more insight you may have. Really, I'm hanging onto a thread and crave advice.

Thank you.


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