# Men: Can you dig deep and help me better understand . . .



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

. . . your biggest emotional needs?

I'm still trying to figure out new and better ways to, uh, "serve" my husband in this way. I really think I have it down as far as sex goes (not that you can't chime in about sex and how it's important to you emotionally) but sometimes I really seem to "miss the boat" on my husband needs emotionally. Yes, we communicate about it frequently, but I've found that hearing a lot of different male voices saying the same thing has really helped with my "getting it" moments in the past. 

So what do you most need or desire from your wife when it comes to your emotional health? Are there things you wish you could tell her but don't because it's not "manly"? (That's one barrier I'm trying to break down with my husband. I used to connect my desire to him being a certain way, but I found that actually hurt out intimacy more than it helped.)

Do most of you hide things from your wife that you wish she knew about you emotionally because you don't want to be perceived as "weak," or do you feel like you can be honest with her emotionally? Do you trust her enough to be vulnerable?

I'll give you an example: One of my husband's emotional needs seems to be for me to give him extra time and space to process strong emotions, and I will admit this is a hard one for me. (I want to fix things right away. I want him to always be pleased with me, it's uncomfortable for me when he is processing instead of talking to me. He is happy to talk to me, but he doesn't process emotionally nearly as rapidly as I do, etc.) I've slowly learned to accept this need of his and not be afraid of it. He always comes to me when he's done processing, so we can talk. 

Can you be really vulnerable and open here? What are some of your deepest emotional needs, and what is your stance on whether it's possible for your wife (or women in general if that's how you want to talk about it) to meet those needs?

Thanks in advance for temporarily relinquishing your man card. I promise you can have it back!

GI


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Don't:
smother
pry
critique
try to fix his problems for him

If he want's to talk to you, seek advice, etc, he'll come to you when he's ready. Be considerate; treat him like you care, and and believe in him. If he fears opening up to you is going to bring on lots of drama, questions, or second guessing, he won't talk.

"Emotional needs" in many men (IMO) are not nearly as pressing and important as you might expect.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

When it comes to personal and romantic relationships, I want to be respected by the people I respect (e.g., I highly respect my wife), and I want to be loved and desired by the people I love and/or desire (I love and desire my wife). Basically, love and respect, which pretty much encompass everything else such as appreciation.

Aside from that, I may occasionally want a little time and space to process my own feelings before discussing or sharing them. I don't always immediately know what they actually are or mean! And so, can't always articulate them right away.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

While my wife has started to make herself "available", what I really need is for her to come to me and say "I'm sorry for the pain I caused by bringing baggage into our marriage and punishing you for the actions of someone else". Don't think that day will ever happen.

Enthusiasm toward lovemaking would be wonderful.

My wife used to say I didn't open up to her, but what I found was that when I did, whatever feelings I expressed would be banked as ammo for a later argument or an excuse to avoid intimacy. She also said hearing my feelings was a turn off.

I am much like your husband, if there are strong emotions present, I need to write it down and present it in a letter. This may sound wimpy, but consider evolution. Males were usually the ones fighting in battle. Personally, if I am in a highly emotionally charged discussion, the adrenaline flows, mouth & mind are not always in sync. 

Fight or Flight responses attempt to kick in. There have been times when I will say "I need to step out of room for a minute". This usually evokes a response of "O, so your going to run away now?"

I have never gotten physical with my wife, but mind is distracted trying to keep everything in check. Then, when I pause to think things thru, my silence is interpreted as a negative. The phrase "By not saying anything, it says EVERYTHING" gets thrown out there.

Not what I meant at all, but is what is assumed.

Not sure this is what you are looking for, but is what came to mind when I read your post.

Also, as mentioned be a poster above - Respect. Having your feelings dismissed after expressing them, when asked, is very dis-respectful.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

I think most men have emotional needs of stuff like:
* praise for supporting the family, especially if you are a SAHM or he makes >> more than you
* bring him up more often than nagging (thanks for doing x, I really like what you did in y situation
* I am proud of you for x and y

stuff like that


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> I have never gotten physical with my wife, but mind is distracted trying to keep everything in check. Then, when I pause to think things thru, my silence is interpreted as a negative. The phrase "By not saying anything, it says EVERYTHING" gets thrown out there.
> 
> Not what I meant at all, but is what is assumed.


Yes, this was an issue for us sometimes, too. His silence, in the midst of a heated discussion, used to pretty much enrage me because I misinterpreted it as a control tactic. I've come to understand that, although what I feel immediately is processed and turned into words without any effort whatsoever on my part, it doesn't work that way for him.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Forest said:


> Don't:
> smother
> pry
> critique
> ...


I think the problem with me was that I tended to dismiss the notion of his emotional needs altogether, rather than thinking they were too pressing. I realize that the pendulum can swing too far the other way, though. Is that what you mean when you say men's emotional needs are"not nearly as pressing and important as you might expect?"

And can you give examples of what you mean by "prying." Do you mean if he seems to be grumpy or remote, just let him alone rather than trying to figure out what's wrong? If he's grumpy or remote I tend to default to thinking it must be about me, or that he must be blaming me. Then by the time he's ready to talk, I already have myself worked up into a defensive state and as soon as he begins to talk about how he's feeling, instead of listening I'm ready to talk about how *I'm* feeling. 

Working on it--with his understanding. 

I wonder if this is a common problem in some marriage dynamics? Men don't feel heard because by the time they are ready to talk to their wives, the wives are already wound up over the assumption that he's complaining rather than sharing feelings. Anytime my husband shares his feelings, I think they must be about me--especially if they are negative.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I know you are asking the guys, but thought I'd chime in.

My husband is really adept at emotional intimacy, which is something I was rather puzzled about when we met. I would say he is much better at it than I am....though I have caught up to him at this point, pretty much.

I think one of the reasons he is so good at it is that he had a lot of time to be his own man with no relationship, to pursue things he was interested in, and to experience a lot of different women (both in relationships and just dating/sex).

I kind of think now, that I've been divorced, with a few others, and now with him...that we can all get emotionally stifled when we are in long term relationships. My first marriage began when I was very young and lasted until my mid 30's. I realized now, that during that marriage I did not grow as a person very much. I was only used to emotional intimacy in context of that relationship. I didn't know how to do it with anyone else, nor did I understand my own emotional needs.

My husband, having had a lot more experience with different people, and with being single and understanding himself a lot better, had a huge head start on me when we met.

Anyway, that is just some theory....

Emotional needs of my husband:

*he wants me to trust that he can take care of things, not to second guess him or try to step in when I think I could "help" him (ie: no back seat driving, no reminding him not to forget his coat, nothing that resembles any "mommy" behavior)

*he wants me to see him as he sees himself...and he is very confident and loves himself

*he wants me to support him by letting him vent about things when he needs to (work, traffic, whatever) without offering help or comments EXCEPT at times when he actually NEEDS that help or comments...in those cases he wants to utilize my expertise, not just vent...I have come to know the difference

*he wants me to see him as "my man" and to never, ever give any other man (or woman) any part of me that belongs to him...this has far reaching effects into his emotional needs...much farther than I ever understood in the beginning stages of our relationship

*he needs emotional honesty from me...something I wasn't that good at at first (the old "what's wrong"/"nothing" game is not acceptable to him)...being emotionally honest doesn't mean blasting him with "you did this or that wrong!" it means me admitting that I'm not settled about something and telling him about it without blaming him for my feelings

*he needs me to show interest in him as a person, and if it wasn't real, he would know it in a heartbeat

*he needs me to be completely open to him sexually...which in our case, is not a sub/dom thing, but is quite rich and complicated...he would have not pursued a relationship with me at all if I did not show I was capable of this right away (thankfully we are matched really well at that stuff, as I also would not have pursued a relationship with him if he didn't meet my standards)

*he needs me to not treat him like he's a caveman...the whole "bring me a sandwich" stuff is ridiculous to him and he will immediately be irritated with me if I imply he is "just a man" or if I treat him that way

*he needs me to trust him to be faithful, as he has never ever given me reason not to trust him and has shown me nothing but love and devotion

*he needs me to appreciate and share his particular blend of humor (which I do, and it is one of the things I love most about him)....this is actually more important to him than I could have guessed at first...his humor and the way he sees things and his ability to make himself and me laugh is a very rewarding part of his life and feeds him in a way that nothing else can (this is true for me, too...I need and want to be laughing a lot in my life)

*when he is down or sick, he THEN does want the mommy side of me to touch him gently and warmly and just be there for him with a soft bosom to land on (we both actually love taking care of the other when one of us is sick)...I recently attended a funeral with him of a co-worker he had known for 15 years who died suddenly and young, with a wife and child left behind...I cried right along with him during the whole thing...being there for him this way and allowing that emotional tide to wash over us together meant so much to him

*he wants me to also appreciate his wild horse side...the part of him which will never be tamed...not just tolerate it, but appreciate it and love it....admittedly, this was difficult for me at first, but now it is one of the things I love most about him...the emotional need here is true acceptance, because he truly is a wild horse


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Don't let the irony of asking men to talk about things that in general we don't really want to talk about much get lost here 

I don't need to vocalize how I feel to another person to process it. Putting emotions in to words is for me hard work, so there has to be a really good reason to spend a lot of time doing it. Helping you understand is a really good reason, but helping me understand myself is not - I'm already in my own head. 

So I guess what this means is that for my emotional health, it's more a question of what I don't need from you than a question of what I DO need. I don't need soothing words of "I'm sorry, that must make you feed bad", because they're not soothing, they're just a statement of the obvious. As long as you don't tear me down, complain about me being me as long as I'm not hurting you, or make it your obvious life mission to turn me into something I am not, we're good. I'm very much an "actions" over "words" person - act like you respect and love me, and I'll take you at your actions. Say it out loud, fine, but you'd better be doing as well.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Needless to say, men are different from each other, so what some need / want may be completely different from what others want. Its a good idea to ask, but just be aware that these things are in no way universal.

So what I most want (which is probably weighted by what I don't get):

Respect: An indication that my wife thinks I am a person of value. Jokes are fine but be careful that making fun of someone's mistakes doesn't become a patter of making fun of the person.

Desire: For me this is actually more important that sex. I want to be desired. Every once in a while it would be great if my wife just jumped me, no plan - just because she wanted me and couldn't wait.

Happiness: I want to feel that my wife enjoys her time with me. 

Trust:


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> While my wife has started to make herself "available", what I really need is for her to come to me and say "I'm sorry for the pain I caused by bringing baggage into our marriage and punishing you for the actions of someone else". Don't think that day will ever happen.
> 
> Enthusiasm toward lovemaking would be wonderful.


and



Faithful Wife said:


> *he needs emotional honesty from me...something I wasn't that good at at first (the old "what's wrong"/"nothing" game is not acceptable to him)...being emotionally honest doesn't mean blasting him with "you did this or that wrong!" it means me admitting that I'm not settled about something and telling him about it without blaming him for my feelings


My wife admits she's not very good at talking about emotions or anything of the like. She can be very much a closed book. I need transparent communication. We've both been awful at it and it started unraveling our relationship. I've been making a priority of working on this for myself, but I'd like to see some reciprocation on that front. 

A large part of what I need from my wife is to feel prioritized. Part of this is simply presence in the moment--not allocating me 20% of her processing power while the other 80% is engaged with the million other day-to-day things going on. Those day-to-day things are important, sure. But dammit, I matter too.

I could go on, but those are the biggies atm.


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Getting It, Congrats on your wishing to do more things that would draw you closer to your husband and go to making yourself a better wife. I suspect with your attitude you are already doing all that is necessary to keep you and hubby as close as you need to in order to maintain a healthy marriage. That said now let me make a gentle suggestion to you. 
Stop trying to open him up.
Not all men want to be open and vulnerable. And quite often sometimes when women get men to open up they are not happy with what they find there. Or even with the fact that he opened up in the first place.
Pop psychology tell us that we all need to be open and vulnerable and frankly emoting all over the place. To most men that concept is foreign and when they do it distasteful afterwards and when women see men do it they find the whole process yucky and oftentimes unsettling in an odd way that they can't describe. To be sure this is not occurring on the conscious level but from a much deeper, more primal part of the brain. 
Unless your husband has some bottled up pain that you aware of and it is causing him present immediate issues that need attending to, I would encourage you to probably let this sleeping dog lie. In olden days men were taught to be rocks and stoic like and in the 60's this mentality was laid to waste. Yet it is precisely this steadiness, this stoicism, that allows you to feel safe on a subconscious level. And this safety is what allows you to bring fully forth your femininity in a way that was so very obvious and appealing in your original post. This idea is really expounded on by people like David Deida and if you haven't read him I would encourage you to do so, particularly his book the Way of the Superior Man. It is in the differentiation between the sexes and between the two of you that creates the polarity that builds and maintains attraction. 
Your man sounds just fine to me. And more over you do too.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> While my wife has started to make herself "available", what I really need is for her to come to me and say "I'm sorry for the pain I caused by bringing baggage into our marriage and punishing you for the actions of someone else". Don't think that day will ever happen.
> 
> Enthusiasm toward lovemaking would be wonderful.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I know this all to well. My x did this and it certainly has left a lasting effect on me on how much I will open up with someone or trust in someone. I'm likely very closed off in this regard and unless my GF were to ask me directly or pry out of me how I'm feeling about something I won't talk about it. I have found myself in the past playing a dangerous game of dumping my emotional stuff on my friends while not talking to my SO about them. By keeping the two things separated I could mitigate either one having more than just pieces of the puzzle. Lessens the chance of getting hurt. It's not healthy but just kinda where I was at the time

So for me sex is really where I can feel emotionally connected with my GF. Not going to be vulnerable and not going to talk about feelings but in this one area I can let my guard down and really connect.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

EVG39 said:


> Getting It, Congrats on your wishing to do more things that would draw you closer to your husband and go to making yourself a better wife. I suspect with your attitude you are already doing all that is necessary to keep you and hubby as close as you need to in order to maintain a healthy marriage. That said now let me make a gentle suggestion to you.
> Stop trying to open him up.
> Not all men want to be open and vulnerable. And quite often sometimes when women get men to open up they are not happy with what they find there. Or even with the fact that he opened up in the first place.
> Pop psychology tell us that we all need to be open and vulnerable and frankly emoting all over the place. To most men that concept is foreign and when they do it distasteful afterwards and when women see men do it they find the whole process yucky and oftentimes unsettling in an odd way that they can't describe. To be sure this is not occurring on the conscious level but from a much deeper, more primal part of the brain.
> ...


You put your finger on what my h and I have been trying hard to negotiate for the past few years. We began to work on our sexual and emotional intimacy, and it has led us to some strange and wonderful places. 

You go so deep, and you wonder, can I go deeper? Should I go deeper? I have read Way of the Superior Man--I read it early in our efforts to reconnect. At the time, and even more so now, I am trying to get a better understanding of that which I cannot understand because . . . well, because I'm not a man. 

It's not that I want him to be vulnerable and have feelings that he doesn't have--I just want to make sure I'm "getting" whatever there is about him to "get." I don't want intimacy to flow only one way in our marriage, I really want to understand him so I can make him feel . . . well, the way he makes me feel when we're lying together and he's stroking my hair and I'm just content with everything.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Unfortunately I know this all to well. My x did this and it certainly has left a lasting effect on me on how much I will open up with someone or trust in someone. I'm likely very closed off in this regard and unless my GF were to ask me directly or pry out of me how I'm feeling about something I won't talk about it. I have found myself in the past playing a dangerous game of dumping my emotional stuff on my friends while not talking to my SO about them. By keeping the two things separated I could mitigate either one having more than just pieces of the puzzle. Lessens the chance of getting hurt. It's not healthy but just kinda where I was at the time
> 
> So for me sex is really where I can feel emotionally connected with my GF. Not going to be vulnerable and not going to talk about feelings but in this one area I can let my guard down and really connect.


Hmm. I tend to think you have to find a balance between what you can "dump" on your SO, and what you should work through on your own in a healthy way. You say you have baggage in this area, and I know what that is like, and it's one of the things my H and I have struggled to overcome with opening up to one another. But it can be worth the effort, especially if it's hurting your relationship to not talk to your SO about things. 

On the other hand, my H and I try not to be a "dumping ground" for one another. When we can we use friends, hobbies, exercise, meditation, etc. to work out negativity before turning to one another with "issues" or "problems." We're not always successful, but we are aware. 

And yes, it's funny how "issues" seem to evaporate when we just screw them away, lol!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Cletus said:


> So I guess what this means is that for my emotional health, *it's more a question of what I don't need from you than a question of what I DO need.* I don't need soothing words of "I'm sorry, that must make you feed bad", because they're not soothing, they're just a statement of the obvious. As long as you don't tear me down, complain about me being me as long as I'm not hurting you, or make it your obvious life mission to turn me into something I am not, we're good. I'm very much an "actions" over "words" person - act like you respect and love me, and I'll take you at your actions. Say it out loud, fine, but you'd better be doing as well.


Ugh, see that is hard for me. I like clear instructions on what TO DO. 

My husband has tried to explain, but I really think he feels like you do. It's only when I do something that he didn't need that what he DOES need becomes apparent. 

Dang it I need a manual.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I agree with most guys here. I honestly need very little emotionally from my wife, but I have always been a person content with dealing with things on my own. I think maybe just hearing some appreciation every once in a while is nice. The one thing I don't like is frequently getting asked if I am ok just b/c I am in a quiet mood (I could very well just be thinking about baseball but my wife will grill me as if I am pondering the meaning of life lol). 

All I can really say is just to be supportive and there for him if he needs you.


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## Methuselah (Nov 24, 2014)

More blowjobs.

'nuff said.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Methuselah said:


> More blowjobs.
> 
> 'nuff said.


Ha! I'm actually sort of disappointed in you guys--BJ's not mentioned until the SECOND page of this thread?? 

Alright, I'm giving your man cards back. Asking you to talk about your emotions is doing weird things to you!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> I agree with most guys here. I honestly need very little emotionally from my wife, but I have always been a person content with dealing with things on my own. I think maybe just hearing some appreciation every once in a while is nice. The one thing I don't like is frequently getting asked if I am ok just b/c I am in a quiet mood (I could very well just be thinking about baseball but my wife will grill me as if I am pondering the meaning of life lol).
> 
> All I can really say is just to be supportive and there for him if he needs you.


But if something IS bothering you do you go to her? And if so, is the result most often satisfactory to you? Or have you found that it's better just to deal with things on your own because talking to her doesn't yield the result that you'd hoped for. 

CAN women "be there" for men in the way men might (even rarely) need? Or are we wired so that when we hear your "feelings" we go all wonky and malfunction?

Do any of you ever have success when and if you do ever approach your wife and want to talk about how you feel?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> But if something IS bothering you do you go to her? And if so, is the result most often satisfactory to you? Or have you found that it's better just to deal with things on your own because talking to her doesn't yield the result that you'd hoped for.
> 
> CAN women "be there" for men in the way men might (even rarely) need? Or are we wired so that when we hear your "feelings" we go all wonky and malfunction?
> 
> *Do any of you ever have success when and if you do ever approach your wife and want to talk about how you feel?*


Nope.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

/threadjack 

Hi GI! No time now but I'm looking forward to reading this thread. 

/end threadjack
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> But if something IS bothering you do you go to her? And if so, is the result most often satisfactory to you? Or have you found that it's better just to deal with things on your own because talking to her doesn't yield the result that you'd hoped for.
> 
> CAN women "be there" for men in the way men might (even rarely) need? Or are we wired so that when we hear your "feelings" we go all wonky and malfunction?
> 
> Do any of you ever have success when and if you do ever approach your wife and want to talk about how you feel?





Fozzy said:


> Nope.


Okay, do you think it's POSSIBLE for women to listen to men in the way men need, or do you think there is only so much that a couple can to do bridge the gender divide?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes, mine can talk to me, and I can talk to him.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> *Okay, do you think it's POSSIBLE for women to listen to men in the way men need*, or do you think there is only so much that a couple can to do bridge the gender divide?


Yup.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

GettingIt said:


> I think the problem with me was that I tended to dismiss the notion of his emotional needs altogether, rather than thinking they were too pressing. I realize that the pendulum can swing too far the other way, though. Is that what you mean when you say men's emotional needs are"not nearly as pressing and important as you might expect?"
> 
> And can you give examples of what you mean by "prying." Do you mean if he seems to be grumpy or remote, just let him alone rather than trying to figure out what's wrong? If he's grumpy or remote I tend to default to thinking it must be about me, or that he must be blaming me. Then by the time he's ready to talk, I already have myself worked up into a defensive state and as soon as he begins to talk about how he's feeling, instead of listening I'm ready to talk about how *I'm* feeling.
> 
> ...


I think you're pretty much got it, by my standards. By "don't pry" I did mean to kinda leave him alone if he seems to want that. In general, men just do not want to converse as much as women, and even less about feelings and stuff. *Persistent* "what 'cha thinkin?" "everything ok?" "anything wrong?" "you almost done?" is exhausting.

If he's quiet, grumpy, remote, just leave him alone for awhile. It it seems like more than that, its OK to ask "did I do something?" That should suffice. If it was you, he'll tell you. If not, he'll realize he probably ought to snap out of it.

Its the sleeping dog thing. Above all, don't get yourself pissed just because he doesn't want to lay out his feelings. Everyone has a right to deal with things their own way first, before going all soap opera.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

I don't talk about my own problems, I've thought them through and decided what needs to be done already. I may need "technical" advice if my wife knows more about something than I do.

I have had a tendency in the past to expect my wife to realize that something she's doing is bothering me. If I do that, she should ignore me. It's up to me to say what I want.

It's not always best to talk emotions too soon. I recently had a problem with my wife. My initial desire was to talk about it immediately. I forced myself to wait and subsequently came up with a much better approach.

It bothers me if she thinks that I would do or say something that would require me being a d!ck. She should know I'm not a d!ck and wouldn't do or say that!

I need her to have my back. She always does but will occasionally slip up by mistake.

I need her respect (which, of course, I have to earn). 

I need her to tell her what a good job I'm doing of making her happy (she does).

I need blowjobs (I get them).

The best thing for you to do is ask your husband what he needs. He'll tell you. Just don't be disappointed if it's mostly just more blowjobs. :smile2:


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I agree with most guys here. I honestly need very little emotionally from my wife, but I have always been a person content with dealing with things on my own. I think maybe just hearing some appreciation every once in a while is nice. The one thing I don't like is frequently getting asked if I am ok just b/c I am in a quiet mood (I could very well just be thinking about baseball but my wife will grill me as if I am pondering the meaning of life lol).
> 
> All I can really say is just to be supportive and there for him if he needs you.


Amen.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

GettingIt said:


> But if something IS bothering you do you go to her?
> 
> *Yes. If I think that's the best option.*
> 
> ...


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

GettingIt said:


> . . . your biggest emotional needs?
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out new and better ways to, uh, "serve" my husband in this way. I really think I have it down as far as sex goes (not that you can't chime in about sex and how it's important to you emotionally) but sometimes I really seem to "miss the boat" on my husband needs emotionally. Yes, we communicate about it frequently, but I've found that hearing a lot of different male voices saying the same thing has really helped with my "getting it" moments in the past.
> 
> ...


My wife and I had this problem in the past as well. I would be upset/angry/frustrated for any number of reasons and she didn't like the fact that I was upset. Eventually I was able to explain to her that; "Whether I'm upset at you or something totally unrelated, I need time to process my emotions. If you want me to engage with you this very second, due to my mood, I'm going to say things that aren't very nice." 

Now she understands me and leaves me alone when I need it. My wife is like you though, when she's emotional she wants instant engagement!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Hmmmmm, the mystery thickens. 

Have I maximized the intimacy I can expect from my marriage, or do I persist?

If I persist, will I drive my husband BSC?

I *think* I could do a better job. But maybe bugging him about exactly *how* to do it is not the best approach?

But what if I don't ask him, so as not to bug him, but then I guess wrong and in my attempts to please him I just annoy him instead. 

I know my marriage isn't perfect and one of the things I worry about is that he wishes I "got" him on a more basic level. 

I wish I could be him for a day.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Has he said you haven't gotten him on that level or are you speculating?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Youngster said:


> Now she understands me and leaves me alone when I need it. My wife is like you though, when she's emotional she wants instant engagement!


Bingo. It's torture for me to wait when I need emotional release. 

It's torture for him to try to process my emotional release when he's not sorted his own emotions yet.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Has he said you haven't gotten him on that level or are you speculating?


Mostly speculating, although he and I talk about the limits of intimacy often. Where is the line? Is there a sweet spot beyond which the relationship actually begins to suffer instead of improve? How much transparency is optimal for us (I think it's different for every couple.) 

I've found that hearing what he has told me echoed by other men in different words or with slightly different nuance is helpful to me. Sometimes pieces of the puzzle that I wasn't getting suddenly fall into place when I hear it from men I don't know or have a history with. 

I feel like my husband and I sometimes get lost in one another and start to miss the forest for the trees. The "bigger picture" of men's emotional needs that is being talked about in this thread is really grounding for me.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

It is wise to preserve a bit of mystery in the relationship. Why do so many men make fun of Oprah? Too much emotional sharing. You don't want to treat him like a BFF. 

I see the word "respect" mentioned several times here. That is an emotional need for many men.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

GettingIt said:


> But if something IS bothering you do you go to her? And if so, is the result most often satisfactory to you? Or have you found that it's better just to deal with things on your own because talking to her doesn't yield the result that you'd hoped for.
> 
> CAN women "be there" for men in the way men might (even rarely) need? Or are we wired so that when we hear your "feelings" we go all wonky and malfunction?
> 
> Do any of you ever have success when and if you do ever approach your wife and want to talk about how you feel?


Depends on what the issue is. If it is specific with her it will eventually come up. If something non-relationship is bothering me, it usually stays with me. Honestly it is just not difficult for me to cope with and resolve/get over. I know my wife would like it if I opened up more and shared my feelings, but really why, there is no benefit for me since it isn't something I need. 

If I did want to talk to my wife about my feelings, she would just listen, be supportive and not judgmental. I think that is all most guys would want if they need a woman to "be there". The worst thing you can do if he opens up is to make it about you and dismiss his feelings. Playing with his junk won't hurt either 

For me, the bedroom is enough emotional support to get me through the day with a smile on my face :grin2:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I cannot speak to your husband, but for me, a woman who needed this constant intimate connection every hour of the day we're together would be to put me in an unsustainable relationship. Some say that makes me emotionally immature or holder of a low emotional IQ, and I say fine - you and I were clearly not meant for each other. The Female Way is seen by some here as inherently superior - that husbands who don't possess it are Poor Quality, emotionally stunted, Neolithic relics. Well, baby, it's cool in the cave. 

Sorry, I'm an introvert. Too much of you hounding me for your attention is counter-productive and leaves me drained, especially if I have to actively analyze every word that comes out of my mouth. If you're bugging me, I'll tell you. If you're making me feel good, I'll tell you. I already know how to cry when Old Yeller dies, so I don't need lessons in learning how my body image at age 12 is determining my choice of foot wear today. 

So bottom line is to know your partner and respect his verbal and non-verbal feedback. He'll let you know when you are hurting as opposed to helping.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I cannot speak to your husband, but for me, a woman who needed this constant intimate connection every hour of the day we're together would be to put me in an unsustainable relationship. Some say that makes me emotionally immature or holder of a low emotional IQ, and I say fine - you and I were clearly not meant for each other. The Female Way is seen by some here as inherently superior - that husbands who don't possess it are Poor Quality, emotionally stunted, Neolithic relics. Well, baby, it's cool in the cave.
> 
> Sorry, I'm an introvert. Too much of you hounding me for your attention is counter-productive and leaves me drained, especially if I have to actively analyze every word that comes out of my mouth. If you're bugging me, I'll tell you. If you're making me feel good, I'll tell you. I already know how to cry when Old Yeller dies, so I don't need lessons in learning how my body image at age 12 is determining my choice of foot wear today.
> 
> So bottom line is to know your partner and respect his verbal and non-verbal feedback. He'll let you know when you are hurting as opposed to helping.


No apology needed. My H is an introvert as well. I don't mind leaving him alone when he needs it as long as he lets me know when he does need something. 

Let me ask you this: as an introvert, do you ever have trouble responding to your wife when she needs to talk to you about how she is feeling? Do you find a deluge of emotion from her to be exhausting, or are you fine with her emoting as long as she doesn't expect you to reciprocate with you own deep observations?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> Let me ask you this: as an introvert, do you ever have trouble responding to your wife when she needs to talk to you about how she is feeling? Do you find a deluge of emotion from her to be exhausting, or are you fine with her emoting as long as she doesn't expect you to reciprocate with you own deep observations?


Responding? Yes, that can be tough, but I am well trained. 

As a young buck, I thought emoting was a sign that she wanted me to do something - fix the problem, offer suggestions, refine her perspective, call her on a bull**** point. That was double-dutch exhausting, for the effort of trying and for the futility.

Much corrective action later, I just listen and nod at the right time, say stupid **** like "that must have been _awful_, and very, very carefully avoid adding anything constructive to the discussion unless it is specifically requested. The point of the conversation isn't to transmit the emotional event, it's to reinforce that I care enough to listen to the venting. Even an introvert can manage that as long as it isn't incessant.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I don't want another boss or supervisor or manager or therapist. You married me one thinks because of who I am not because of a crazy glint eyed goal you thought you had about improving me. You want to improve something train a dog. Yeah I'm a piece of work warts and all. You bought in. I will kill and fight and die for you, now sit down and stop trying to change that. My emotional 'depth' is not up for debate. When you're old and falling apart I'll be there like it or not. Deal with it.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Responding? Yes, that can be tough, but I am well trained.
> 
> As a young buck, I thought emoting was a sign that she wanted me to do something - fix the problem, offer suggestions, refine her perspective, call her on a bull**** point. That was double-dutch exhausting, for the effort of trying and for the futility.
> 
> Much corrective action later, I just listen and nod at the right time, say stupid **** like "that must have been _awful_, and very, very carefully avoid adding anything constructive to the discussion unless it is specifically requested. The point of the conversation isn't to transmit the emotional event, it's to reinforce that I care enough to listen to the venting. Even an introvert can manage that as long as it isn't incessant.


Do you think men want the same thing when they go to their wives to vent: just for them to listen unless something else is requested?

My h is not a venter. I mean, occasionally, yes, but normally he wants something productive when he comes to me to talk. Often he goes away frustrated at how "unproductive" the talk ends up being. Like I mentioned earlier, when he comes to me to "talk" I'm already wound up and defensive and the talk ends up being about how I'm feeling rather than focused on what he was trying to say. 

But then I'm in the position of having to stuff feelings that have already developed for me, and that NEVER goes well. 

Hence me trying to understand how to be calmer and listen to him when he comes to tell me something that is on his mind, and to see that as a need of his instead of this threatening thing that I've got to respond to defensively.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Runs like Dog said:


> I don't want another boss or supervisor or manager or therapist. You married me one thinks because of who I am not because of a crazy glint eyed goal you thought you had about improving me. You want to improve something train a dog. Yeah I'm a piece of work warts and all. You bought in. I will kill and fight and die for you, now sit down and stop trying to change that. My emotional 'depth' is not up for debate. When you're old and falling apart I'll be there like it or not. Deal with it.


You don't fool me. You're cuddly as a teddy bear I bet.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Do you think men want the same thing when they go to their wives to vent: just for them to listen unless something else is requested?
> 
> My h is not a venter. I mean, occasionally, yes, but normally he wants something productive when he comes to me to talk. Often her goes away frustrated at how "unproductive" the talk ends up being. Like I mentioned earlier, when he comes to me to "talk" I'm already wound up and defensive and the talk ends up being about how I'm feeling rather than focused on what he was trying to say.
> 
> ...


I often come away from conversations with my wife this way. I'll tell her what's bugging me, but she just kind of.....stares at me. Occasionally offering "Oh... hmmm". 

I don't bring everyday stuff to her. When I do bring stuff to her, it's something important that needs to be addressed. I guess maybe she just feels I'm venting (and I guess I am, to a point), but I really don't feel like I'm getting through to her unless there's some participation. Like acknowledging the issue, agreeing or disagreeing, and working with me to address the situation (or explaining why not). 

Instead I often walk away feeling foolish for even bringing it up.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I often come away from conversations with my wife this way. I'll tell her what's bugging me, but she just kind of.....stares at me. Occasionally offering "Oh... hmmm".
> 
> I don't bring everyday stuff to her. When I do bring stuff to her, it's something important that needs to be addressed. I guess maybe she just feels I'm venting (and I guess I am, to a point), but I really don't feel like I'm getting through to her unless there's some participation. Like acknowledging the issue, agreeing or disagreeing, and working with me to address the situation (or explaining why not).
> 
> Instead I often walk away feeling foolish for even bringing it up.


The same thing happens here. One person brings something up but doesn't necessarily say what they hope to get out of the conversation. The other person treats it like a vent when it wasn't necessarily a vent, or treats it like a big issue in need of a solution when in fact it was only a vent. The bringer of the issue feels either dismissed or misunderstood, and we both go away thinking, "What the hell just happened? Can't we even have a freaking conversation without it devolving into frustration and hurt feelings?"

I think some couples naturally navigate this better than others--they are more compatible in their communication styles and their emotional needs. Other couples might be better off when initiating a conversation to give the other person a hint or a clue as to what they hope to get out of it. 

I know my h and I have more than once gone round and round for an hour only to find out that we were chasing our tails.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

GettingIt,

At any rate, you've demonstrated more of an interest in being a supportive wife than is usual, to be sure. Be proud, you've done what many others are too self centered or "progressive" to do. I'd say you're officially a good person, and *your husband is a lucky man.* That is the highest praise I can give.

A pretty swell accomplishment. If you want to exalt yourself into the stratosphere, just remember:

Never utter the phrase "what about MY needs?" unless you are referencing a Jay Leno monologue; or are making fun of a bunch of selfish prigs.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Forest said:


> GettingIt,
> 
> At any rate, you've demonstrated more of an interest in being a supportive wife than is usual, to be sure. Be proud, you've done what many others are too self centered or "progressive" to do. I'd say you're officially a good person, and *your husband is a lucky man.* That is the highest praise I can give.
> 
> ...


Well thank you for the compliment. I must say that my interest is inspired, however. I wouldn't do this if he wasn't a good man, working just as hard to understand me and my needs.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

GettingIt said:


> The same thing happens here. One person brings something up but doesn't necessarily say what they hope to get out of the conversation. The other person treats it like a vent when it wasn't necessarily a vent, or treats it like a big issue in need of a solution when in fact it was only a vent. The bringer of the issue feels either dismissed or misunderstood, and we both go away thinking, "What the hell just happened? Can't we even have a freaking conversation without it devolving into frustration and hurt feelings?"
> 
> I think some couples naturally navigate this better than others--they are more compatible in their communication styles and their emotional needs. Other couples might be better off when initiating a conversation to give the other person a hint or a clue as to what they hope to get out of it.
> 
> I know my h and I have more than once gone round and round for an hour only to find out that we were chasing our tails.


I can see how that could go. After all, guys often make the mistake of thinking the woman wants to solve a problem. I imagine women could make the mistake of thinking that their husband is just venting when he actually wants to solve a problem.

Perhaps every discussion should start with the words "I'm just venting" or "I have a problem and am looking for a solution". If the conversation doesn't start that way, the other person should respond with "Wait, are you just venting or are you looking for a solution?".

Try really hard to avoid being defensive. Tell your husband that you're going to assume from now on that you're the perfect wife unless he tells you differently. So, he better be clear when there's a problem.

And, yes, just asking about this stuff puts you in the top 5%. However, it's equally important that your husband is worthy (which I know you think he is). It annoys me when I see women like you paired up with selfish a$$holes.

Like Cletus, I listen carefully and am very supportive when my wife wants to vent. It's not always easy or natural, but she deserves my best.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Cletus said:


> I cannot speak to your husband, but for me, a woman who needed this constant intimate connection every hour of the day we're together would be to put me in an unsustainable relationship. *Some say that makes me emotionally immature or holder of a low emotional IQ, and I say fine - you and I were clearly not meant for each other. *The Female Way is seen by some here as inherently superior - that husbands who don't possess it are Poor Quality, emotionally stunted, Neolithic relics. Well, baby, it's cool in the cave.
> 
> Sorry, I'm an introvert. Too much of you hounding me for your attention is counter-productive and leaves me drained, especially if I have to actively analyze every word that comes out of my mouth. If you're bugging me, I'll tell you. If you're making me feel good, I'll tell you. I already know how to cry when Old Yeller dies, so I don't need lessons in learning how my body image at age 12 is determining my choice of foot wear today.
> 
> So bottom line is to know your partner and respect his verbal and non-verbal feedback. He'll let you know when you are hurting as opposed to helping.


All of this rings true for me. The part I bolded is confusing for some women (and men too?) because they think the absence of the display of emotion means that a man isn't feeling anything. Not the case as many have said. He's processing and may or may not say something later. 

The other thing the bolded sentence reminds me of is when someone says *"Women feel things more deeply".* That never made sense to me because feelings are internal. It only makes sense if you assume that feelings are immediately expressed with outward displays of emotion. And who says it? Women mostly. 

This is a great thread, BTW.


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

I want to praise the OP for putting in the effort to truly understand and appreciate her husband and his feelings. 

Men have emotions. We just manage, express and process them differently. My wife says she accepts me as I am but she is terrible at dealing with my emotions if I show them. So I try to keep them positive or hidden. I have learned that I if get pulled into an emotional discussion it can be disastrous. I have learned and she has told me that she respects an old fashioned man. The strong silent type. She needs me to be the rock so that she can feel safe. When she doesn't feel safe she can't trust me and if she can't trust me she can't respect me. Lose-Lose. 

There are times when I wish I could really be free with my thoughts and emotions with her. But she process thoughts and emotions so much faster than I do and ascribes negative intentions to my response so I am always a step behind her and at a disadvantage when emotional issues are discussed. She can come across as judgmental and unsympathetic if it is something she doesn't approve of or finds unacceptable. She freely expresses her opinions but is not patient with others if they don't agree with hers. I have rarely discussed emotional issues and have it turn out well. But I have gotten better at learning how to listen to her so that she feels heard. I'm still a man and when she has a problem or is feeling bad I want so badly to fix it. But that's not what actually helps her in most cases. Even if I handle her emotions correctly I usually end up feeling helpless and sad after the interaction and to me she rarely seems to feel any better afterwards. I just have to take solace in that I didn't make it any worse this time. 

So I applaud your efforts to understand and grow your intimacy with him.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I think I can speak for my husband

- Love, appreciation and understanding of WHO HE IS without wanting to change him.
- Fun, companionship and comradely.
- Joy in his success, joy in his joy.
- Sharing. Most anything.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> I think most men have emotional needs of stuff like:
> * praise for supporting the family, especially if you are a SAHM or he makes >> more than you
> * bring him up more often than nagging (thanks for doing x, I really like what you did in y situation
> * I am proud of you for x and y
> ...


If my wife could do this, it would be easy for her to get anything she ever asked for. However, it is not something she can or is willing to do. I will admit, she has said these things about half a dozen times in 20 years, but it is not something even remotely consistent.

In my experience, men can be very giving - almost to a fault. But, if we feel used, taken advantage of, not appreciated or respected, then we tend to withdraw and give as little as possible.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Vorlon said:


> I want to praise the OP for putting in the effort to truly understand and appreciate her husband and his feelings.
> 
> Men have emotions. We just manage, express and process them differently. My wife says she accepts me as I am but she is terrible at dealing with my emotions if I show them. So I try to keep them positive or hidden. I have learned that I if get pulled into an emotional discussion it can be disastrous. I have learned and she has told me that she respects an old fashioned man. The strong silent type. She needs me to be the rock so that she can feel safe. When she doesn't feel safe she can't trust me and if she can't trust me she can't respect me. Lose-Lose.
> 
> ...


This is pretty close to the dynamic that we have, and one that I want to change so that we can have emotional intimacy flowing both ways, instead of just one way (from me to him.) I relate to your wife in that in the past I didn't deal well with his emotions when and if he ventured to share them. Eventually he did what you did--stopped sharing them. At first we both thought that was for the best, but it started to bother me. I wanted to really see all of him, just as I wanted him to see all of me. I'm learning not to feel threatened or turned off or insecure when he chooses to open up to me. I won't lie: it's was HARD at first. He's my man and my rock, and I want him to be that way. But if it's just an act for my sake, then we're fooling ourselves about the level of intimacy that we *really* share. He doesn't open up that often because it's not second nature to him and, as I said, it didn't go well in the past when he did. However, we are still trying to work towards "two way intimacy" and it's sort of like a new frontier in our marriage. Pretty neat after 25 years together we're still learning and finding new ways to know one another. I think it's key to keeping our bond "alive."


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> . . . your biggest emotional needs?


I would say that the single biggest emotional need of all sentient creatures is simply to be understood. 

In my own marriage, that would translate to at least a modicum of respect for the fact that most of the life and death crap over the years has fallen on my shoulders.

For example, when an ordinary prescription medication attacked the platelets in a child's blood resulting in a condition called, idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, (Which is a mouthful..) I'm the one who had to sit down with a pediatric hematologist and discuss treatment options. My wife was simply too frazzled to take a crash course on the subject.

When a line transformer fell in the backyard during a violent summer storm, I'm the one who had to physically restrain their spouse from running out in their bare feet to make sure a pet was okay.

That's pretty much the pattern. From putting out a fire, to stopping the bleeding, to killing a scorpion, to handling a chainsaw, to teaching safety around water, anything that is even remotely dirty or dangerous naturally falls on me. And those aren't things that any of us are born knowing how to do.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> I would say that the single biggest emotional need of all sentient creatures is simply to be understood.


Yeah, that's probably the easiest way to say it. Part of the road block to that is also accepting that the needs of others don't necessarily mirror our own. 



ocotillo said:


> In my own marriage, that would translate to at least a modicum of respect for the fact that most of the life and death crap over the years has fallen on my shoulders


.

Do you feel openly dismissed or that your efforts are pointedly minimized, or is it a more subtle lack of acknowledgement?


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## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

With my Ex, we had lots of communication problems. I don't think it was anything like being dismissive of each other, lack of respect, or such. We simply just saw the world from different viewpoints and had a hard time understanding each other sometimes even when we thought we were on the same page. That does not at all mean we had a terribly rocky relationship or fought a lot, quite the opposite. It was just at the end of the day, we would interpret the same thing in different ways. We still muddled through life with plenty of love and respect for each other despite our failings in communication. I'm much more mindful of it going forward though.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> This is pretty close to the dynamic that we have, and one that I want to change so that we can have emotional intimacy flowing both ways, instead of just one way (from me to him.) I relate to your wife in that in the past I didn't deal well with his emotions when and if he ventured to share them. Eventually he did what you did--stopped sharing them. At first we both thought that was for the best, but it started to bother me. I wanted to really see all of him, just as I wanted him to see all of me. I'm learning not to feel threatened or turned off or insecure when he chooses to open up to me. I won't lie: it's was HARD at first. He's my man and my rock, and I want him to be that way. But if it's just an act for my sake, then we're fooling ourselves about the level of intimacy that we *really* share. He doesn't open up that often because it's not second nature to him and, as I said, it didn't go well in the past when he did. However, we are still trying to work towards "two way intimacy" and it's sort of like a new frontier in our marriage. Pretty neat after 25 years together we're still learning and finding new ways to know one another. I think it's key to keeping our bond "alive."


I hope you don't mind me chiming in. 

It was my way to retreat inside my own mind. Part of the reason why I did this, was to avoid knee-jerk reactions of potentially saying something hurtful or reacting 'unfairly'. What I didn't realize was that he viewed this as a form of me shutting-down. It was a bit of a revelation to realize this. Especially as in our marriage, we were initially dealing with his habit of shutting-down in other ways. Interesting how that can work.

It's not that I was ever non-expressive, far from it. Yet in those moments, I had to learn to take a breath, count, get over the knee-jerk reactions and share the emotions and thoughts... the angry, the sad, hurt, confused, the lot. And he responded similarly. Heated and otherwise. More and more it was 'safe' to share all that with him. Until it started to become less of thing, and more just natural to discuss it together. It takes time and stems from responses developed even before we'd met. He was aware of behavioral patterns within himself that he wanted to work on. It was him that inspired me to take a closer look at self. 

When I became aware this was how I handled things, it was something I felt needed to change. For us and for me. I can take feedback, I'll listen to his perspective and consider that. What makes that easy to do is knowing that you have each others back. How do we know we have each others back? It's usually in our actions, listening, demonstrating. With that trust, the rest can come.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Okay, do you think it's POSSIBLE for women to listen to men in the way men need, or do you think there is only so much that a couple can to do bridge the gender divide?


I listen to my husband the way that he needs... it's not that I'm a fantastic listener and I automatically get him. Sure, sometimes that happens. Other times, he'll tell me I'm focusing on the thing that doesn't need focus and steers me to what it's really about for him. He helps me to listen to what he needs.

He's big on taking responsibility, and the advice he gives me is often to consider my own actions (helping to provide a solution). I appreciate this. The other day, however, I simply told him upfront that I just needed to hear agreed empathy and didn't want a solution. He was good with that too. We help each other.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Do you feel openly dismissed or that your efforts are pointedly minimized, or is it a more subtle lack of acknowledgement?


The latter. My wife is one of the nicest human beings on the planet, but with that comes a bit of naivete.


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> This is pretty close to the dynamic that we have, and one that I want to change so that we can have emotional intimacy flowing both ways, instead of just one way (from me to him.) I relate to your wife in that in the past I didn't deal well with his emotions when and if he ventured to share them. Eventually he did what you did--stopped sharing them. At first we both thought that was for the best, but it started to bother me. I wanted to really see all of him, just as I wanted him to see all of me. I'm learning not to feel threatened or turned off or insecure when he chooses to open up to me. I won't lie: it's was HARD at first. He's my man and my rock, and I want him to be that way. But if it's just an act for my sake, then we're fooling ourselves about the level of intimacy that we *really* share. He doesn't open up that often because it's not second nature to him and, as I said, it didn't go well in the past when he did. However, we are still trying to work towards "two way intimacy" and it's sort of like a new frontier in our marriage. Pretty neat after 25 years together we're still learning and finding new ways to know one another. I think it's key to keeping our bond "alive."


We have been together over 30 years and yes its amazing how you can still learn new things about each other. At times it feels like we know everything they will say even before it comes out of their mouth. We feel like we know what they will do or how they feel. To some degree that's true but I believe a deeper level of intimacy can be reached when and if you both try to go beyond the routine and safe. Its a bit scary and can blow up but the efforts can be rewarded in the long run. 

My wife actually wants me to challenge her, to stand up to her but my desire to not fight or upset her inhibits this. Part of that is based on my childhood. I was an only child, only son of a widow. I learned to not upset my mother. I learned to compromise and get along. My wife was the baby of four children. She has always spoke her mind. She is direct and sees no problem with arguing in and of itself. She thinks its healthy. 

I am slowing moving toward her philosophy but I always seem to be on the losing end and we don't have a good make up strategy or practice. Its always hurt feelings, cold shoulder, distancing and then waiting to things blow over (her acting normal again). Its partly my fault in that I resent that she always seems to be the aggrieved party and I'm thew one on the defensive in the argument. I've learned to apologize when I'm in the wrong but that never seems to be enough. So then the resentment builds. I don't normally hold a grudge and can let things go as soon as she returns to normal but we have 30 years of this so some of it sticks. Just sharing thoughts and feelings here. Maybe someone can find it helpful.

FYI--We are what most people consider happily married so no crisis here or at least not today  Just your everyday couple making it work the best we can.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Vorlon said:


> *My wife actually wants me to challenge her, to stand up to her* but my desire to not fight or upset her inhibits this. Part of that is based on my childhood. I was an only child, only son of a widow. I learned to not upset my mother. *I learned to compromise and get along.* My wife was the baby of four children. *She has always spoke her mind.* She is direct and sees no problem with arguing in and of itself. *She thinks its healthy*.
> 
> I am slowing moving toward her philosophy but I always seem to be on the losing end and *we don't have a good make up strategy or practice. Its always hurt feelings, cold shoulder, distancing and then waiting to things blow over (her acting normal again)*. Its partly my fault in that I resent that she always seems to be the aggrieved party and *I'm thew one on the defensive in the argument.* I've learned to apologize when I'm in the wrong but that never seems to be enough. *So then the resentment builds.* I don't normally hold a grudge and can let things go as soon as she returns to normal but we have 30 years of this so some of it sticks. Just sharing thoughts and feelings here. Maybe someone can find it helpful.


Wow, again your marriage is a lot like mine--most particularly the bolded. We have come a long way in the past 2.5 years in addressing those issues and rebuilding a new dynamic that helps us over come those roadblocks to our intimacy. It is, as you point out, harder when you have a history with the person you are trying to do this with. We both had to work very hard to break old habits and control old triggers. But it's very worthwhile and rewarding. 

Like in your marriage, the hardest thing for us was learning a new way to move on after conflict. We were so sick and tired of it taking days or even weeks for normalcy to return. The feeling of tension would linger--not out and out hostility, but we definitely had our wall up and we felt like there was no "reset" button. Sexual and emotional intimacy would disappear. We struggled with this the longest, worked at it the hardest, and we have made a lot of progress. Where we are right now is working on my ability to listen to him without feeling panicked about his feelings being an indictment of me as a wife. In other words, listening to him without making it all about me. I have a tendency to feel very unsettled when he expresses any sort of negative emotion (anything from exhaustion to frustration). 

Do you talk to your wife about this process of increasing intimacy? Of trying to find ways to work around the roadblocks? It sounds like you understand the why of each of your emotional make ups, but do you talk with her about how to negotiate them as a couple? 

That sort of self awareness that you show is great; just wondering if your wife shares it. Two working together is better than one working alone!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I have a tendency to feel very unsettled when he expresses any sort of negative emotion (anything from exhaustion to frustration).


GI, this must be from something you learned in childhood?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> GI, this must be from something you learned in childhood?


I don't know where or if I "learned" it, or if it's just an aspect of my personality that gets highlighted in my particular relationship with the individual who is my husband. And I'm not like that with just my husband--I don't do well when the people around me are not happy. I see their struggle as a reflection of how well _they_ think I'm doing my "job." 

I had an idyllic childhood and have close loving relationships with my five siblings and my parents, who recently celebrated their 50th anniversary. Not that that means my childhood experience wasn't formative in any way, but I tend not to examine it as much as I might otherwise when it comes to looking for clues to how I am today. 

That being said, my mother is the most selfless person I know--she always put herself last and made sure everyone else got what they needed before paying any attention to her own needs. She never was--and still isn't--comfortable being served by others, even when we (her family) insists. If everyone around her is not comfortable and happy, she's not comfortable and happy. Hmmmmmm . . . . .


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I see their struggle as a reflection of how well _they_ think I'm doing my "job."
> 
> ...
> 
> She never was--and still isn't--comfortable being served by others, even when we (her family) insists. If everyone around her is not comfortable and happy, she's not comfortable and happy. Hmmmmmm . . . . .


Definitely interesting points to ponder.

From the outside I would say, wow, it seems like a huge burden to feel that the experience and feelings of others is a reflection on you and what you are doing...that must feel like an incredible weight upon you, I can't even imagine it.

I used to have a friend who felt that if she wasn't always chatting and being friendly with whoever was around her, it made her very uncomfortable. So for instance, standing in line in the grocery store, she always had to make friendly conversation with others standing in line....if she didn't, she very anxious and like she was being rude. Which was funny to me because I hate it when people talk to me in line in the grocery story, it makes me feel they are being rude by expecting me to converse when I would rather be reading torrid headlines on nasty tabloid rags near the checkstand. So the two different perspectives between us was quite a contrast...just pointing this out to show how different people see things.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I don't know where or if I "learned" it, or if it's just an aspect of my personality that gets highlighted in my particular relationship with the individual who is my husband. And I'm not like that with just my husband--I don't do well when the people around me are not happy. I see their struggle as a reflection of how well _they_ think I'm doing my "job."
> 
> I had an idyllic childhood and have close loving relationships with my five siblings and my parents, who recently celebrated their 50th anniversary. Not that that means my childhood experience wasn't formative in any way, but I tend not to examine it as much as I might otherwise when it comes to looking for clues to how I am today.
> 
> That being said, my mother is the most selfless person I know--she always put herself last and made sure everyone else got what they needed before paying any attention to her own needs. She never was--and still isn't--comfortable being served by others, even when we (her family) insists. If everyone around her is not comfortable and happy, she's not comfortable and happy. Hmmmmmm . . . . .


Are you a perfectionist? You feel responsible for everything? You can't do enough? You always feel that you could have done better and if you had done better, people around you would be happier? You are seeking approval because you don't value yourself enough. 

This is my opinion of course, but any time you rely on someone else for approval or self esteem something is wrong. 

Understand that your mother taught this to you. She was probably afraid of rejection so she always went overboard to make sure that no one was unhappy with HER. As if her feelings didn't matter as much as everyone else's.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

My mother was like that also. Selfless to a fault. It eventually led her to a nervous breakdown. She spent nearly a year in bed when I was 7. Not able to care for her family because she wasn't able to care for herself.

Not healthy.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Definitely interesting points to ponder.
> 
> From the outside I would say, wow, it seems like a huge burden to feel that the experience and feelings of others is a reflection on you and what you are doing...that must feel like an incredible weight upon you, I can't even imagine it.


Actually, I don't feel it at all, or even consider it until I try to unpack why I've always reacted badly to my husband coming to me to express any sort of negative feelings. Trying to unravel some of the difficult, intractable issues between him and me has led to deeper self examination that I would have attempted otherwise, lol! So no, no burden; it's just the way I am and I didn't really notice it until, like I said, we began to attempt to heighten our intimacy beyond what was "comfortable" for us. 



VermisciousKnid said:


> Are you a perfectionist? You feel responsible for everything? You can't do enough? You always feel that you could have done better and if you had done better, people around you would be happier? You are seeking approval because you don't value yourself enough.
> 
> This is my opinion of course, but any time you rely on someone else for approval or self esteem something is wrong.
> 
> Understand that your mother taught this to you. She was probably afraid of rejection so she always went overboard to make sure that no one was unhappy with HER. As if her feelings didn't matter as much as everyone else's.


Again, it's not something that I struggled with at all until my husband and I started down this path we are on to deeper intimacy. This is an "issue" that is not really an "issue" except when it comes to exploring deeper intimacy with him. Lots of people would say "what's the point?" of that sort of intimacy if it's requiring so much work, but it's helping us work on some issues that have always tripped us up in our marriage. 

I have great relationships, but we all tick in a slightly different way, we all mesh with others in a slightly different way. My husband and I are trying to figure US out, and in doing so we have to really understand ourselves. 

I'm far from a perfectionist, lol, but I can be really hard on myself because I'm a great believer in autonomy and self determination. If I want something bad enough, I will figure out how to get it, even if it means I have to change in ways that are not comfortable for me. 



Fozzy said:


> My mother was like that also. Selfless to a fault. It eventually led her to a nervous breakdown. She spent nearly a year in bed when I was 7. Not able to care for her family because she wasn't able to care for herself.
> 
> Not healthy.


My mom never took it to that level--to the level of it being unhealthy. Plus I think the people around her didn't take advantage of her for it. My dad is a generous and giving man who shoulders quite a bit, too. And all six of us kids benefitted from her selflessness as children, and look after her and fuss over her and spoil her all we can now. She just would rather be the one in the position of caretaker. She's never been comfortable with being the center of attention. She is very low need and highly productive. Not a "why me" or "woe as me" bone in her body. Everybody in her life just loves her. 


Anyway, I didn't mean for this thread to take this turn, lol. I'm a person who is pretty emotionally healthy. But we all have "ways of being" that can be productive (and even fun) to delve into.


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> Wow, again your marriage is a lot like mine--most particularly the bolded. We have come a long way in the past 2.5 years in addressing those issues and rebuilding a new dynamic that helps us over come those roadblocks to our intimacy. It is, as you point out, harder when you have a history with the person you are trying to do this with. We both had to work very hard to break old habits and control old triggers. But it's very worthwhile and rewarding.
> 
> Like in your marriage, the hardest thing for us was learning a new way to move on after conflict. We were so sick and tired of it taking days or even weeks for normalcy to return. The feeling of tension would linger--not out and out hostility, but we definitely had our wall up and we felt like there was no "reset" button. Sexual and emotional intimacy would disappear. We struggled with this the longest, worked at it the hardest, and we have made a lot of progress. Where we are right now is working on my ability to listen to him without feeling panicked about his feelings being an indictment of me as a wife. In other words, listening to him without making it all about me. I have a tendency to feel very unsettled when he expresses any sort of negative emotion (anything from exhaustion to frustration).
> 
> ...


We have not talked directly about this. She is quick to criticize what she sees as pop psychology or to much touchy feeling sharing. She was born in the north of England and they can be a hard bunch. She is of the school: "just put your head down and carry on". And I would say that it does works sometimes. That's not to say we don't talk about our issues, just not quite as directly as you put it. IT just on a smaller scale and more specific to certain issues as they arise. 

Just a little background...She was emotionally much healthier than I was when we met. She drew me out and made me feel things I had previously learned to stuff or ignore. But I am a life long learner of new things and I like to learn even more about old things so I'm continuously trying to grow and learn. It didn't come right away but over the years I have been the one to study up on and learn about relationships. If I hadn't we would most likely be divorced by now. 

She is happy that I will work on myself but she doesn't work that way. She is a just do it and fly by the seat of your pants type person. She isn't going to change so why spend too much effort or energy thinking about. In my opinion, she would have to face the negatives or self destructive aspects of her personality and she doesn't have the tools to deal with that emotionally. She has a bad self-image inside as it is so it would mean she really is bad or worthless in her mind. She has that black or white type thinking. So she would see a professional therapist or deep self-analysis as simply telling her she was wrong and confirming what she already feels about herself. Yes, circular logic. It makes for a interesting combination. 

Unfortunately her coping skills are insufficient to handle a lifetime of what she see as disappointments and failed expectations. We have a good life but its been a rocky road getting here. I have plenty of faults as well. Too self focused, not patience or understanding enough, shy away from conflict, feel responsible for her happiness (yes I know, I know....) Lol. She has to own her own happiness. I been around the block a few times here so I've heard, read or written how that one ends up.  

Again I commend you on your journey to greater intimacy with your husband. What a great path to follow instead of opting to upgrade or replace a perfectly good one as we see so many people do these days. But it sure isn't easy.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I am coming in late to this thread, so what I am saying may have been covered.

Admiration. Period.

If my wife admires me, she will respect me.

If my wife admires me, she will prioritize me.

If my wife admires me, she will **** me.

And when I feel admired by my wife, there is nothing I would not do for her.

ETA: Except maybe hold her purse...


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

GettingIt said:


> Where we are right now is working on my ability to listen to him without feeling panicked about his feelings being an indictment of me as a wife. In other words, listening to him without making it all about me. I have a tendency to feel very unsettled when he expresses any sort of negative emotion (anything from exhaustion to frustration).


This is a very common reaction in women, stemming from a deep-seated need for protection dating back to prehistoric times. If he is apparently having difficulty coping with something, to the point of expressing negative emotions about it, how can he protect you from dangerous things like saber-tooth tigers? :smile2:

The fact that you see this and are working on it is very good. You should tell him, if you haven't already, that you understand this and are trying to get past it. That should help him open up more.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> I know you are asking the guys, but thought I'd chime in.
> 
> My husband is really adept at emotional intimacy, which is something I was rather puzzled about when we met. I would say he is much better at it than I am....though I have caught up to him at this point, pretty much.
> 
> ...



One of the most thoughtful posts I have ever read here. That is some awesome stuff FW.


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