# Trust



## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

I found out my wife cheated on me when on a business trip over two months ago. I want to be with her in the end and I am willing to forgive, something I NEVER thought I would be able to do before I found out about the affair. My wife is very attractive and has men approach her ALL the time b/c 1) her looks 2) her personality (ie she not a b*tch towards any person!, one of the attributes I love about her). She claims this is the ONLY time she has ever done something like this. Outside of this event, I am the only man she has ever had sex with. We have two young children together and WE would do anything for them. 

Here's the deal: She works full time. Men are always around her and she has made friends with many of them. She has very close relationship with some of the men, I had been suspicious before but always brushed it off as "she would never cheat on me". Well now that she has, how do I regain the trust in her? She has opened access to me for her work email and phone but I know there are ways to pursue things outside of these parameters...I desperately want to trust her but my instinct tells me there are more lies... I have ultimately concluded I must put faith in her trust and have trust rebuilt but I am struggling and I feel there are still lies out there..... We have been going to marriage counseling since I found out so I know SHE wants to this work as much as I do. How do TRUST again?


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

I know I will never have the blind trust like I had before with "anyone".


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

First and foremost she has to not have any contact with the OM...ever. If they work together she needs to get another job asap. 

Even if she has no intention of ever cheating with this POS again, he'll be around her whenever he wants. He may wait a few months and then sniff around again... you need to avoid this. 

Second: You must expose the OM to his significant other. This will do two things; a) provide an extra set of eyes to watch him - b) have a better chance at ensuring there is no repeat performance. 

Third: She must write a no contact letter to the OM telling him he must never contact her again under threat of being reported as a stalker and having a restraining order issued. 

Fourth: Her friendly nature needs to be restricted to females.... forever. She can be friendly to your male friends and relative and respectful to to male coworkers but as a married woman with children who wants to respect her family and husband she needs to nix the friendly banter. Getting another job will work in your favor in this effort. 

lastly: Make time for yourselves - have a date night every week or two for only you two. Have family nights when you two play with your children together. But these are activities to undertake ONLY after the first four steps are completed. 

These steps require effort on her part and are consequences for her betrayal. You can have a happy marriage... but it's not going to look like the one you had. You need to remain vigilant. You can work TOWARD restoring trust but don't make that a goal.

BTW did she confess or did you discover the betrayal? Do you know for sure it was only once? You need to know all the facts before you can move forward.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

You don't, she cheated (and you are already accepting the past "issues" may have been more)...your gut says there is more.

She cheated because she may have a pretty shell and never be b!tchy to anyone (I'd consider cheating on you beyond b!tchy). And she won't be an example for her kids by being a faithful wife. But anything else...

I'm around men for work. Guys who are good looking and used to getting any women they want (well known rock musicians). Guys who are wealthy and powerful in the industry record execs. (they also usually get what they want). These are people that had multi platinum albums.

I don't trade on my looks. I've always known anyone who wants you based solely on that wants instant gratification (nothing to do with me or my looks) I've been hit on from a pretty young age, still happens. Smile nicely and tell them politely...never going to go there. End of story.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Trust is going to take some time, but it is achievable. But that first is going to start with her giving full-disclosure...and then a genuine commitment to do everything necessary to get help and to focus on healing the marriage. If she doesn't fully disclose...and just gives you "trickle truth"...basically, disclosures given piecemeal over time...then you get to experience the trauma over and over again. Full-disclosure it vital for recovery. Also, you have experienced a trauma...and will naturally feel anxious and unsafe regarding trusting your wife again. Now did you catch her, or did she make first disclosure? That makes a huge difference.
If she told you, then that is a good start. If you caught her, then she may have told you only what she had to. It's great that she made her phone and e-mail available to you, but getting a prepaid phone and free e-mail elsewhere are easy to obtain. If someone isn't ready to quit their affairs, but got caught, they will lie and go underground...so words mean nothing.
Others on this site would suggest a VAR (voice activated recorder) that you tape under car seat...as many spouses will save their illicit communication with OM (other man) on the road or in the parking lot. I don't know how I feel about that...but I do remember the season where I was a complete wreck and could barely function...and spent hours devoted to trying to follow my wife's trail. Many folks make mistakes in the beginning, but quickly become experts in hiding their tracks...so a VAR is a good option...as long as you remain cool and can act like you are letting it go. This will lower her guard and make her less paranoid about getting caught.
I would also get checked for an STD if you haven't already and require her too. Even they used protection...there's still herpes...which is only minimally protected by condoms. If she refuses...then you need to start setting boundaries.
Another boundary you need to set...her relationships with other men. I know this is counter to the modern age...but many of us have experienced where it can go wrong with inter-gender relationship between married folks go unchecked.
There is a lots of other advice that many seasoned folks can offer here...so the best way to get some very good advice round her is to ask very specific questions.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Once that bell has been rung it will never be the same again.

Only her actions over time will enable you to build trust in her again but you will always have in the back of your mind that she betrayed that trust that one time so you know it is possible.

The day she is late, the phone call she takes away from you, her conversations with other men the doubt will always be in your mind.

Even though you say you do trust her you will always have to verify that she is indeed being honest.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

How did you find out. If she came out and confessed, I might try to R. If I found out by any other means I would file for D. But I have never been put in that position yet that I know of. Who knows how I really would react.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

By the way make sure your MC is competent and not worthless.

You'll know you have a worthless, if not harmful, MC that will further victimize you if any one of these four gems is suggested or advocated:

1. The affair was really partly your fault

2. You need to work at winning back your errant spouse

3. You need to move on and forgive quickly to save the marriage

4. The affair is a marriage problem - not the errant spouse's personal failing 

If you hear any one of these just calmly get up and walk out. 

There are probably more incompetent MCs than there are incompetent teachers and if you've been through the public ed system that gives you some clue. 

Conversely, just as there are some stellar teachers, you'll find some outstanding MCs but don't read too much into what their shingles say. After all, even incompetent teachers have licences (and tenure) too. 

If you want more info on real R, read the entire article here (don't let the christian angle put you off):

BRING YOUR MARRIAGE BACK FROM THE DEAD


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

FormerSelf made a good point I neglected: be SURE you both get tested for STDs. Your health is important to your kids too.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> FormerSelf made a good point I neglected: be SURE you both get tested for STDs. Your health is important to your kids too.


Spidey sense says...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Do NOT forgive her too quickly and rugsweep this.

If the POS she cheated with is a coworker, she has to quit and find another job.

Tell her she must take a polygraph to make sure you have the full story of what she wants you to forgive her for.

Tell her she must get IC for herself to figure out why she would risk her M and her children's happiness for something so stupid.

If POS is married or has a gf, expose his crappy a** to his BSO.

Expose the A to both your families so she can feel some real consequences for her sh***y behavior and other family members can help to hold her accountable in the future.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

You take a long look before you forgive or trust, a very long look.

You are shaken, don't beg, plead, forgive, trust any time soon.

Do you expose this?


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

You are forgiving too quickly. You thought you would leave but she knew you would not. Better believe it.
Trust will never fully come back, dont believe those who say it will. That fear will akways be there. As it should be. Thats the receipt for taking back a cheater. The question here is: only: ls she worth it? Only you know.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

pauslon said:


> We have been going to marriage counseling since I found out *so I know SHE wants to this work as much as I do*. How do TRUST again?


No, that does not follow. We on TAM here have seen time and time again that the cheating spouse attends the marriage counseling (MC) in order to pacify the betrayed spouse.

You need true remorse from her before even considering MC. Otherwise MC is a waste of money and time.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Listen to aug.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

pauslon said:


> I found out my wife cheated on me when on a business trip over two months ago. I want to be with her in the end and I am willing to forgive, something I NEVER thought I would be able to do before I found out about the affair. My wife is very attractive and has men approach her ALL the time b/c 1) her looks 2) her personality (ie she not a b*tch towards any person!, one of the attributes I love about her). She claims this is the ONLY time she has ever done something like this. Outside of this event, I am the only man she has ever had sex with. We have two young children together and *WE would do anything for them*.
> (She cheated and thereby jeopardized the family..this is an empty statement that doesn't ring true)
> Here's the deal: She works full time. Men are always around her and she has made friends with many of them. She has very close relationship with some of the men, *I had been suspicious before but always brushed it off as "she would never cheat on me"*. So you had a clue what might have been happening. Your gut, what you saw was correct.Well now that she has, how do I regain the trust in her? She has opened access to me for her work email and phone but I know there are ways to pursue things outside of these parameters...*I desperately want to trust her but my instinct tells me there are more lies... I have ultimately concluded I must put faith in her trust* You had a feeling she might be cheating, you didn't have trust before and you rugswept, now you're rugsweeping again, even though, you think she might be lying, you see how wrong everything is? and have trust rebuilt but I am struggling and I feel there are still lies out there..... We have been going to marriage counseling since I found out so I know SHE wants to this work as much as I do. How do TRUST again?



You're in a world of hurt if you continue this way of thinking. Trust is earned. You don't have to put your faith in anything, she has to show you everyday that she is worthy of trust.
Other's in this forum will help you out OP. Good luck to you


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

First thing I would protect myself....
1) Not rugsweeping and go 180 
2) get tested for std letting her know
3) IC
4) TALK with a lawyer

ther is certainly more that happend... sorry you are here


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Trust? You may get to 99% eventually. 
But 99% is not trust, just like someone can't be 99% pregnant. 
By definition trust is 100%. That's gone. 

It's a whole new relationship now, one that you would never have knowingly chosen. 

One day you will feel OK, the next day not so good. 
You will wonder why it happened and you won't find an answer that satisfies you. 
You will wonder if you know all the details and whether there is more. There almost always is. 
You will look at her sometimes and picture her with the OM doing whatever they were doing. 
You will think "Our marriage. Our kids. Why?" 
And you will grieve that what you had is gone. 

On TAM, the catch cry is that R is very difficult and takes years, not months. I'm coming around to the opinion that R it is simply not worth all that pain. 

I admire anyone who has the strength to do it. 

BUT. . . you need ALL the facts now so that you can make an informed decision on whether to proceed with R. It is almost impossible to get the truth from a cheater because they are liars. You need to do your own snooping, credit card and phone bills, her email & phone, VAR her car, put a keylogger on her computer. She has probably deleted a lot. Do a global search on her phone and computer for OM's name. 

Verifiable truth is a must because I would say 99% of cheaters never tell the truth about what happened. You also want to be sure she has stopped contact. 

Tell her that if you find out later that she didn't tell you the full truth and whether it happened before, you will serve her D papers on the same day. Add that you have already had them drawn them up and they are with your lawyer because you mean it and you want the full truth.

Usually it is whoever was away on a business trip that is the one who had the affair. Who was minding your children?

You said you were suspicious before. Why?

I am of course very sorry that you are here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Ask her these questions:

How can I ever trust you again? How will you help me regain my trust in you?

Is there anything else you need to tell me about?

"_Wife's name_: How will you ever be able to trust yourself?"

Get your children's DNA tested. And tell your wife you are doing this. She'll possibly ask why. 

Say to her: "Well, I thought I was living with _Wife's name_ for all these years. _Wife's name_ would never have cheated on me, never have cheated on her children, never have broken our hearts. But you did, didn't you? So it turns out you were not really the _Wife's name_ I thought I'd been living with. You are a stranger to us. I'll have to get to know the real you, all over again. And that's why I need to know what else you have done during our marriage."


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

kristin2349 said:


> I've been hit on from a pretty young age, still happens. Smile nicely and tell them politely...never going to go there. End of story.


Not meaning to derail this thread (please allow me these few lines OP!) but right there - I can instantly say - kristin I like you !

*THIS is how easy it is folks* 

For all the other threads about 'weakness' and it 'just happened' 

Here's kristin, an attractive, obviously confident young woman who know how this all works and how easy it is to give the straight up simple answer that leaves no misunderstandings

It's so fking annoying how simple this can all be ...Uuuurgh!

( just thought I'd share that off topic :smthumbup


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Back to the topic 

Sorry you are here but you now have to blow this apart completely and utterly

This is about boundaries and they are all the ones YOU have not enforced. That's not a blame for you, it's a fact that you have enabled her to have the cake and eat.

She has of course taken advantage of that showed you zero respect.

We have all done this - given them the benefit of the doubt and in reconciliations that have gone on without there being massive consequences for the wayward the reconciliation has failed inevitably - all millions of them.

Any reconciliation that has blame shifting, gas lighting, trickle truthing is doomed to failure - 5,000% there is NO exception to this - NONE

Any reconciliation based solely on, 

her - "Phew!...on I'll never do that again" and 
you - "Phew thank God now she won't" 

Is just wrong on every level. 

Those are _not_ consequences - that is rugsweeping and in time in will basically make her think "Sh!t that was close, can't believe I actually got away with that! " 

Not trying to be harsh here but you need to understand what you are dealing with here and you actually even finding this place could change your life and your marriage.

You'll will need a tin hat and some serious growth in the balls department to deal with what I think you have coming my friend. 

You need to examine her past and her environment. Her opportunities for cheating have been vast and historic and sadly you are going to have to start digging deeper. And if you get the slightest objection to that from her - then sadly you know what's coming

This is interesting this because 'the fog' is what the wayward needs shaking out of but your wife I'm afraid has a fog that envelopes her whole life work environment and ripping that up for you is not going to be easy 

BUT for you to have a future with her you WILL have to do that 

Good luck for you


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Just reemphasizing a point made by a lot of posters, Do you really know how deep the betrayal is?

You state it was one time on a business trip, did she come clean right after the trip or did she hide it and you found out?

If you found out, how can you be sure that this was the only time?

Unless she has become completely clear and open to you, you are getting trickled trothed.

Has she sent a NC letter to the POS?

If he has a wife/gf have you informed her?

If it was a superior have you informed the company?


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

I know you just want this to be a nightmare. It is not. It will get worse before it gets better. Deal with this now. Head on. No more weakness. And you may have a shot. Continue this way. You will only suffer more pain and delay the end.
Do not be afraid. The worse has already happened.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

How did you find out ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

How did you find out ?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Your W has now given you the gift of doubt, the gift that keeps on giving.

Trust will never be, and should not be, 100 percent again. Welcome to the club, and I'm sorry you are now a member.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

pauslon said:


> Here's the deal: She works full time. Men are always around her and she has made friends with many of them. She has very close relationship with some of the men, I had been suspicious before but always brushed it off as "she would never cheat on me". Well now that she has, how do I regain the trust in her? She has opened access to me for her work email and phone but I know there are ways to pursue things outside of these parameters...I desperately want to trust her but my instinct tells me there are more lies... I have ultimately concluded I must put faith in her trust and have trust rebuilt but I am struggling and I feel there are still lies out there..... We have been going to marriage counseling since I found out so I know SHE wants to this work as much as I do. How do TRUST again?


 If you want to regain her trust, then she has to do more than give you lip service. Actions speak louder than words. Do you know who the guy was she had the affair was? Is he married? If he is, you need to inform his wife and let her deal with him. 

Remember, this was no accident. She mad a real life decision to have this affair. When she slept with this guy the last thing on her mind was her husband. She not only cheated on you but she cheated on your children as well so if I were you, I wouldn't let this slide. She doesn't need to trust you. You didn't do anything wrong. What she needs to do is prove to you that she can be trusted. Maybe what you should do is set up a polygraph test and let her know that your making the appointment for one. If she really wants to fix this, she will be more than happy to do so. If she balks at the idea then she has more to hide and by the way, how did you find out about the affair? Don't rug sweep this or it will happen again.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

How you found out your wife cheated on you is an important factor in the advice received.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

aug said:


> How you found out your wife cheated on you is an important factor in the advice received.


:iagree:

Pauslon

How did you catch your wife?

Did she come forward and be honest with you?

Did you get suspicious and catch her?

You think there are other lies??? Why do you think this?

One thing we all believe in on TAM is this "Trust your gut".

Because before you can ever establish trust in your marriage again your spouse has to be worthy of it.

Or this crap will just happen again.

HM

PS
You mentioned some great attributes your wife has but you left out two of the most important.

Self esteem and loyalty.

Without those she is not worthy of you! Never forget that.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

Thank you all for the replies. I found it out. The entire affair lasted 2.5 weeks. She acted strange while she was on her business trip (she actually missed her flight due to her affair the morning she was due back). She came back from her trip and was acting distance. She was always on her computer IM'ing with this coworker. I never caught that but figured something was up. She become much more sexual with me as well.

I happen across one of her IM to a fellow female coworker that read "Our marriage is broken and it's all my fault." I never confronted her on that until I caught her in a lie where she went and had lunch with him. He then instant messaged her that night with a blank text (he wanted her to get on the computer to IM with him). I also read an email from him with sexual references. When I asked her access to her computer (she had just changed the password) she refused. I finally got access to her computer and that's when it all blew up. I lied and told her I had a PI on her, and knew about the lunch and then she confessed what she claims is "Everything" and gave details about the sexual relationship, details I asked for. I had been drinking very heavy due to these events before she admitted everything and I declared everything was over between her and I.

She had very limited contact with this coworker (she barely knew him). He is married with kids. I did confront his wife and tell her. We texted back and forth the first night I told her but have made contact since. I told her I was available if she needed to compare his story to my wifes. 

I had fallen into deep depression but have avoided alcohol for the most part. Before seeking medical treatment I hadn't slept for over 2 months. Sometimes it haunts me too long and end up drinking and those nights never turn out well. I have called my wife every name you can imagine and feel horrible about it. Our relationship now is amazing but hanging by a thread. Sounds strange but we are completely in love and I want no one else. I must go now but more to come. I am overcoming this trauma and think our marriage will be better (it already is) as the months, years past and I regain the trust I had for her.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Has she stopped all contact with the OM? 

One of them needs to get a different job. Have you told her work?

How would she feel if you had an affair? Has she been tested for stds?


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> Has she stopped all contact with the OM?
> 
> One of them needs to get a different job. Have you told her work?
> 
> How would she feel if you had an affair? Has she been tested for stds?




Yes. She claims all contact has ceased. I asked her to tell me if he ever reaches out. The only contact she has had with OM since I found out was the night I told his wife, she IM'd him to say she was "sorry". She told me she did that. I blew up. She claims she feels for his wife and that was for her....??? 

She works for a huge corporation. OM works from home. Professional contact is not necessary for either to do there work. There are occasional times there may be events where they are at the same place. This almost occurred and she told me about it weeks before it was scheduled and actually asked me to come along. The event was cancelled last minute but I am not sure I could be there with the OM there. I not sure if I could control myself physically or emotionally against him. My wife says she will find another job if I request it. I am on the fence about it.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

aug said:


> No, that does not follow. We on TAM here have seen time and time again that the cheating spouse attends the marriage counseling (MC) in order to pacify the betrayed spouse.
> 
> You need true remorse from her before even considering MC. Otherwise MC is a waste of money and time.



She also may be so accustomed to getting away with lying based on looks or "charm" that she is convinced that she can snow the MC just as easily as she has her own husband.

Sounds like she has a severe character defecit. Is the MC a man by any chance?

Mental health professionals are not always as stable or impartial as we'd like to think. It sounds like she has you pretty well snowed. You so desperately want to forgive her as a victim of her own good looks and charm. Look closer...she is flawed and she is not to be trusted (not right now maybe not ever).


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

pauslon said:


> My wife says she will find another job if I request it. I am on the fence about it.


Well, hop off that fence and _demand_ (tonight is good) that she finds another job immediately. If not, this WILL rekindle the second they think things have blown over.

No contact means NO contact.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

You do need to hop off of that fence and set up some firm boundaries that she needs to adhere to. Like NC (which means NC ever not infrequent functions, she'll tell you ahead of time so you can start the same spiral of doubt and pain. 

She does need a new job end of story and excuses. Don't sh!t where you eat. Even in a new job if you both don't make changes it will happen again at a new place. She has no boundaries or respect for you and you make excuses for her bad behavior as a starter.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I hope you both got tested for STD's.

Do you think that your wife would have been so accepting and forgiving as you if the roles had been reversed.

It sounds like if your wife had not been caught she would still be cheating on you. It also seems like you a nice guy. Is is possible that your wife felt that deep down if she ever did get caught then you would forgive her anyway if she showed you lots of affection?

It sounds to me like you have been played.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

_I asked her to tell me if he ever reaches out. 

My wife says she will find another job if I request it. I am on the fence about it. _

No more asking, requesting, begging or beseeching. Make these your non-negotiable demands.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

And this was the first time she cheated, huh? Yeah. Sure it was. 

Trust but verify. Lie detector might help.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Paulson

Thanks for the additional information.

You asked "How do I trust her again?"

The answer is you don't.

You put clear, effective boundaries on your relationship that you both agree too.
your wife becomes an open book.

She gets counseling to figure out why she thought it was ok to lower her boundaries and be selfish enough to engage in an affair.

With a lot of hard work she can become the woman you thought she was.

If the hard work pays off slowly she will regain your trust.

It is all about honesty, integrity, self esteem and loyalty.

You showed it to her. If she loves you enough and loves herself enough she needs to show you the same.

Good Luck

HM


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Funny thing about trust. 
It can take weeks, months, even years to build it with some people. And it can be destroyed in about 10 seconds. 

The possibility of seeing the OM is far too much for her to stay at the job. You shouldn't stand for her possibly seeing him, and you should demand she quit and find a new job. 
And have her put in her 2 weeks on Monday. 


I would advise you to file for divorce, and tell her she has X number of days until the divorce is finalized to show you that she actually wants you. 
You can call off a divorce at any time. 
Because if she can't show in 30-60 days why you should stay with her, she won't be able to ever show it. 

Also, on the note of business trips:
I have been on them before. I know a lot of stuff goes on business trips. 

I never cheated on my XW on the business trips I went on. Because I saw how it became a drug to other guys I worked with. 
They did it once in Chicago, and told themselves they just needed to get it out of their system. And they promise themselves to never do it again. 
Then they cheat in a Las Vegas show because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. 
Then they go to New York, and it is a city of millions of people. What is the chance their wife will find out? 

I hate to tell you this, but you may be reading the first chapter of a very nasty and long story.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Your marriage cannot be amazing and hanging on by a string.
Do you think she respects you? And why? Without it there is no love.
And do you respect her? If so, why?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

harrybrown said:


> Has she stopped all contact with the OM?
> 
> One of them needs to get a different job. Have you told her work?
> 
> How would she feel if you had an affair? Has she been tested for stds?


:iagree:
Tell her the marriage is on hold for now because of her actions.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Books you'll find helpful: NOT Just Friends by Shirley Glass and How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald.

You've been traumatized, and Glass' book explains that well. There are specific things your wife can do that will begin the process of rebuilding trust and MacDonald's book spells those out; but as has been said by others, that takes years, and don't expect to ever feel 100% trust again. Not that you should have trusted her that much in the first place - that's one of the lessons we learn from this (though we wish we didn't have to learn it THIS way).


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Polygraph.
More so the threat of one.
Most of the time it's the trickle truth.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Sounds like the tip of the iceberg. This may be the first time she got caught. 

In addition to what everyone has said, she must change jobs as soon as possible. If she's truly remorseful, she will gladly do this to help rebuild trust. If not, she will balk at this.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

No way this was the first time.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

pauslon said:


> She had very limited contact with this coworker (she barely knew him).


"she barely knew him"

Your troubles are a lot worse than you think. She "BARELY" knew this guy and she had multiple sexual encounters with him!

I want you to think about that for a while...

This wasn't her first rodeo and I doubt very much it'll be her last. She's too nonchalant about giving herself away to other men.

She's been like this for years and you've turned a blind eye to it, by you're own admission. Even if you work things out, you are NEVER going to trust her again. She's attractive, has daily contact with multiple men, has gotten close with some of them and now has had an affair with at least one of them(Probably more).

She's going to have to change jobs and soon if you're ever going to have a chance at R.

Good luck.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Since a business trip was the catalyst for the affair..then its time she find a job that doesn't require business trips.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

And on top of all that she has a spouse who is a doormat. Why should she stop cheating?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> "she barely knew him"
> 
> Your troubles are a lot worse than you think. She "BARELY" knew this guy and she had multiple sexual encounters with him!
> 
> ...



Very sophisticated means of contact for being a first time. First timers are so nervous they wouldn't risk IMing and such and simply rely on work email/workphone. 

Their comfort level was such that the nerves were not an issue. Quite brazen.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

She got caught because she got lazy.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

And sloppy.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

pauslon said:


> I found out my wife cheated on me when on a business trip over two months ago. I want to be with her in the end and I am willing to forgive, something I NEVER thought I would be able to do before *I found out about the affair*. My wife is very attractive and has men approach her ALL the time b/c 1) her looks 2) her personality (ie *she not a b*tch towards any person!*, one of the attributes I love about her). *She claims this is the ONLY time* she has ever done something like this. Outside of this event, *I am the only man she has ever had sex with*. We have two young children together and WE would do anything for them.
> 
> Here's the deal: She works full time. Men are always around her and she has made friends with many of them. She has very close relationship with some of the men, *I had been suspicious before but always brushed it off as "she would never cheat on me".* Well now that she has, how do I regain the trust in her? She has opened access to me for her work email and phone but I know there are ways to pursue things outside of these parameters...I desperately want to trust her but my instinct tells me there are more lies... I have ultimately concluded *I must put faith in her trust and have trust* rebuilt but I am struggling and I feel there are still lies out there..... We have been going to marriage counseling since I found out so I know *SHE wants to this work as much as I do*. How do TRUST again?





pauslon said:


> Yes. She claims all contact has ceased. I asked her to tell me if he ever reaches out. The only contact she has had with OM since I found out was the night I told his wife, *she IM'd him to say she was "sorry"*. She told me she did that. I blew up. She claims she feels for his wife and that was for her....???
> 
> She works for a huge corporation. OM works from home. Professional contact is not necessary for either to do there work. There are occasional times there may be events where they are at the same place. This almost occurred and she told me about it weeks before it was scheduled and actually asked me to come along. The event was cancelled last minute but I am not sure I could be there with the OM there. I not sure if I could control myself physically or emotionally against him. *My wife says she will find another job if I request it. I am on the fence about it*.


Okay, where do I begin? Here are some of my observations:

You found out - she did not come clean on her own, was not really feeling guilty, and was more sorry that she got caught than any other reason.
You say that she has a wonderful personality and is not a b!tch etc - I do not see that - I see a lying, cheating person who does not respect her husband or children.
You say that outside of this you are the only man she has slept with - that you know of! But she has already proven to be a seasoned liar.
She is attractive, has ample opportunity to cheat, has a cheating disposition and in the past, by your own words, has given you many reasons to be suspicious. Yet you still think this is the only time ? I highly doubt that.
I doubt she will be as sloppy about getting caught the next time (unless she wants to get caught because she wants out).
You want to trust her and says she really wants this to work. You want to trust based on what exactly? And of course she wants this to work as you are her fallback plan - her plan B!
After being caught by you she apologised to him!
She says she will find another job if you request it and you are on the fence about it. There are so many things wrong with this. Firstly, it should not be you requesting it but her offering to do it because she knows it to be the right thing to do to help you heal and to ensure no such opportunity presents itself again. And you should be nowhere near a fence on this!
Bottom line is your real problem is you do not know why she did this, how many times she has done it before, if she is still doing it with others and what real reason she has to stop doing this. Your relationship is over. Your marriage is over. Has been for some time.

Separate your finances, contact an attorney, file for D immediately and start working on healing yourself before anything else. Then maybe demand a poly, get the full truth not what you think is the truth and try and salvage some self worth out of this. Sorry to be so brutal.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> Okay, where do I begin? Here are some of my observations:
> 
> You found out - she did not come clean on her own, was not really feeling guilty, and was more sorry that she got caught than any other reason.
> You say that she has a wonderful personality and is not a b!tch etc - I do not see that - I see a lying, cheating person who does not respect her husband or children.
> ...



Pauslon:
You are too close to see things objectively. This post ^^ from manfromlamancha is objectively stated and quite logical without the constraint of covering her actions with your, the bh's, view of what you want to believe. 

Look very objectively at her actions. What she claims happened doesn't have the ring of truth. Read some of the other threads on this board and see if you see the same pattern in your wife's behavior. 

I think there is much more that you are not being told. The problem with that is that an honest reconciliation will be much more difficult to achieve if you are unaware of the truth. 

In addition this could very well be a case of the affair going on hiatus while you cool down. Don't be afraid to press for details. 

In fact you should insist on a written timeline of what she claims happened. Do it now so she can't claim to 'not remember' details later. It is likely that you will discover more details - that's where the timeline comes in. If you do discover more details you can check her written narrative of what happened and ascertain her veracity or lack of.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Listen to these guys.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

OP, my wife had an affair in 1990, and we had some rough years, but we made it and are still together and happy. So, things I learned along the way that might help you.

First, trust will never return 100% because you know what she is capable of, and worse you know she is capable of lying to you about it. I would tell her that, and I would be harsh on her for the lies. (In terms of restoring trust to me that is more important than the physical infidelity.) 

Second, she is pretty and gets in well with people. The same is true of my wife, but she achieves it by knowing how to say what people want to hear, rather than speaking truth. Again, this comes back to pushing her to talk about unpleasant truths, something my wife and I continue to work on. 

Third, it is about her character. Anyone can cheat. It comes down to how much more likely one person is to cheat than another. The bad news is that you cannot trust your judgement of her - I am sure you didn't expect her to be capable of this when you married. So is she the sort of person who will cheat if she thinks she can get away with it or does she have an internal moral compass that will steer her to do right for its own sake? If the former, I would advise divorce, if the latter, reconciliation is a possibility. I actually think the message to the friend where she took the blame for the marriage being broken is a positive.

Fourth, and this should get disagreed with by a few other posters.  ....I personally am not interested in the whole consequences thing. If my wife is only going to be faithful because I punish her like I was her father, I'd rather divorce. The very act of dealing with her affair had enough unpleasantness that it should be enough consequence in itself for a decent person. Going further, if she is a woman of integrity she is now mortified at what she has done. If she still loves the other guy she may be torn (and sorry but you are kidding yourself if you don't consider this, the IMs prove it was a lot more than sexual, they talked. As did my wife and her lover.)

Fifth, and finally, she is fallible. You need to monitor her in ways she doesn't know about. (You really think she is going to use an email account you have access to for talking to her lover?) You already know she is capable of deception. You now need to figure out whether it was out of character or her normal modus operandi.

Good luck, and don't act from fear, or wishful thinking. You only get one life....be bold and go after the relationship you want!


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

Wazza said:


> OP, my wife had an affair in 1990, and we had some rough years, but we made it and are still together and happy. So, things I learned along the way that might help you.
> 
> First, trust will never return 100% because you know what she is capable of, and worse you know she is capable of lying to you about it. I would tell her that, and I would be harsh on her for the lies. (In terms of restoring trust to me that is more important than the physical infidelity.)
> 
> ...



Wazza-Thank you very much for posting. When you said your wife gets well with people by "knowing how to say what people want to hear, rather than speaking truth" I coudn't help but think of my wife. On the outside, my wife is confident and can speak with anyone, (from old women and young adults), and make them feel good about themselves. Everybody likes being around my wife.

Our marriage was not doing well before this affair. Kids took a toll on our marriage, especially our oldest (seven now) who has a learning disability. From the day our first child was born our marriage has not been as strong. My wife sacrificed everything for that child to the point she obsessed over the child trying to fix her. She ignored my opinion on possible solutions or cures. She was hell bent on fixing that child. That is where we started to fall apart. We were great friends, but had lost all passion. We had sex, but only b/c she wanted to satisfy me, (sex was all about me). I tried to please her sexually, but her mind was not into it and she was drained mentally and emotionally from trying to help our child.

After the affair and before I found out, she was acting completely different. She become very sexual with me but at the same time distant from the family. I KNEW something was different. 

After I found out, I feel into a deep depression, she has been there for me completely, not asking anything for herself. I actually respect her for standing up to what she has done and not faulting anyone but herself. That shows character and the woman I feel in love with. She is not hiding or making excuses. 

I truly love this woman. be back in a bit...she is waking up now.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

Wazza said:


> OP, my wife had an affair in 1990, and we had some rough years, but we made it and are still together and happy. So, things I learned along the way that might help you.
> 
> First, trust will never return 100% because you know what she is capable of, and worse you know she is capable of lying to you about it. I would tell her that, and I would be harsh on her for the lies. (In terms of restoring trust to me that is more important than the physical infidelity.)
> 
> ...



The following is at the stage I/we are at:

1) Our marriage right now has never experienced as much passion as it ever has before. My wife and I are 100% completely focused on this marriage and we are working. All it took was a small amount of effort and redirecting focus from kids, work, household tasks to ourselves and the marriage. 

2) We were both lost in our marriage before. I have to admit, if a woman made advances at me and I was out of town and thought I could get away with it, I probably would be the one that had the affair. I know I didn't and she did, but honestly that is where our marriage was at that time.

3) I agree trust will never be 100%. I pressed her more yesterday, and found out more details, all insignificant but nonetheless just more lies. I have told her how much trust means to me and the marriage. I explained I have close to 0% right now in her, and the more the lies come, the longer we stay at 0%. 

4) She deserves a second chance. She has been there for me before and after this affair in some many ways. I took advantage of her always wanted to make things right with us. I was not the best husband to her. I did not show my true love to her, it was conditional, I was unaware how much I loved her until the thought of losing her. She has picked me up so many times and now she is the one that needs help. I WANT to give her the second chance. I did tell her I can only do this once.

5) I am cautious about her and the OM. What they had she claimed was insignificant but I know better. She can't just have a sexual fling, it doesn't fit her personality. She has to be emotionally there as well. On a subconscious level, I think she had this affair with a married man with young children b/c he is less threatening then a single man. To this point, I don't think anything is going on right now, however, I am concerned (fearful!) something could happen later that would tear us apart forever. I am not sure the best way to monitor this? She can easily continue this without my knowledge at anytime. I am thinking about a GPS monitoring device for her car, or for now just simply track mileage on her car. I exposed the OM to his wife, so at least I think she is monitoring him as well, but I have not been in touch with her since the day I told her.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

You really need to stop making excuses for her. There are none. And she gets no points for trying to help you heal, from a scar, she should not have inflicted unto you to begin with. 

Are you hearing what is being said here?


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

so why are you on here if you have it all figured out and are taking her back while rug sweeping THIS affair? 

the first thing you should have done was tell the other mans wife that he cheated on her. but you wont because you dont want to risk making your wife made and ruin the marriage YOU are working so hard to save.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

pauslon said:


> The following is at the stage I/we are at:
> 
> 1) Our marriage right now has never experienced as much passion as it ever has before. My wife and I are 100% completely focused on this marriage and we are working. All it took was a small amount of effort and redirecting focus from kids, work, household tasks to ourselves and the marriage.
> 
> ...


I do appreciate everything you go through and am sorry you're here.

What you need more than anything is time to see, to digest, to think about what has / what is actually happening here, to really understand it all 

.....and then sadly you will back here.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Trust is not something given blindly. Trust must be earned. Her account is still way in the red. Wishing will not make it so my friend.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

terrence4159 said:


> so why are you on here if you have it all figured out and are taking her back while rug sweeping THIS affair?
> 
> the first thing you should have done was tell the other mans wife that he cheated on her. but you wont because you dont want to risk making your wife made and ruin the marriage YOU are working so hard to save.


Please define rug sweeping? I have not endorsed the affair, I have not taken her back so easily, & I believe she is remorseful. 

I did tell the OM's wife. It took me 2 months but I did.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

A lot of similarities in your posts.

Two things, and they may seem contradictory but I don't think they are.

The first is, hammer her mercilessly on the lies. Get to the truth if you can. Do this by gathering information from other sources and checking her story. There are still obvious lies in it. For me the affair was 23 years ago and the lies that were not dealt with still eat at me.

The second is, at some stage you have to decide you are going to either trust her or divorce. You will have to do that when frankly she doesn't deserve it. A second chance if you like.

My wife knows that I accept her affair as an aberration, but am not happy AT ALL with the faults in her that allowed the affair to develop. She also knows that I no longer will take the marriage for granted. For example, every major financial decision we take as a couple allows for the possibility that we may divorce. I don't dwell on it or nag about it, but just discussing it hurts her.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

syhoybenden said:


> Trust is not something given blindly. Trust must be earned. Her account is still way in the red. Wishing will not make it so my friend.


And she cannot earn it until she is given a chance to demonstrate trustworthy behaviour,


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Wazza said:


> A lot of similarities in your posts.
> 
> Two things, and they may seem contradictory but I don't think they are.
> 
> ...


Paulson: Wazza is wise. I'd tweak his advice a bit to say that at some point you're going to have to regard your W as an acceptable risk rather than give her 100 percent trust--you'll never be able to do that again.

One more thing: In a previous post you said that you are "fearful" something might happen to tear apart your marriage. You should be concerned and vigilant, but not fearful. The most important single insight I've gained from TAM is that you have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. Stow the fear!


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

pauslon said:


> The following is at the stage I/we are at:
> 
> 1) Our marriage right now has never experienced as much passion as it ever has before. My wife and I are 100% completely focused on this marriage and we are working. All it took was a small amount of effort and redirecting focus from kids, work, household tasks to ourselves and the marriage.
> 
> ...


Yes she needed to be involved emotionally. So that takes time. More than 2.5 weeks. If it was only 2.5 weeks then shes capable of sex without emotion...new news there huh? 
How long was the buildup for this affair? Texting or whatever communication they could have via work email or secret email accounts.

I'm so tired of liars and trickle truth. I can't stand living with out the truth. You'll never know for sure...and that sucks.

Hey maybe when you're old and gray she will tell you the thing you say is a deal breaker now, but it will be too late then.
Sorry, but she ruined it. How you get that back is all about how YOU CAN COPE. How well can you block out the details of this....call it an affair....I call it phucking a stranger, over and over and then phucking you....ewwww!


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Philat said:


> Paulson: Wazza is wise. I'd tweak his advice a bit to say that at some point you're going to have to regard your W as an acceptable risk rather than give her 100 percent trust--you'll never be able to do that again.
> 
> One more thing: In a previous post you said that you are "fearful" something might happen to tear apart your marriage. You should be concerned and vigilant, but not fearful. The most important single insight I've gained from TAM is that you have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. Stow the fear!


Give 100% trust? I couldn't. Acceptable risk is the right phrase.

But you cannot stop her having opportunities to treat. My wife, who has been unfaithful, gets to go away on business trips, have opposite sex friends, etc. I give her trust even though I don't 100% trust her. I hope that makes sense.

No other way to have a successful marriage in my view.

But she has used up her chances, and she is watched. If she blows it again, there will be no more chances.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Give 100% trust? I couldn't. Acceptable risk is the right phrase.
> 
> But you cannot stop her having opportunities to treat. My wife, who has been unfaithful, gets to go away on business trips, have opposite sex friends, etc. I give her trust even though I don't 100% trust her. I hope that makes sense.
> 
> ...


Yep, and I'll bet she knows it. Paulson--this is where you want to be.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

well I thought we were doing better until I realized I needed the complete TRUTH for us to work. I need to build trust in her for our marriage to work. I wanted to trust she was telling me everything. This was not so as I suspected. Here is where we stand now:

I had asked her from the day I found out to tell me anytime there was ANY contact with him (email, text, IM, phone, physically seeing him, even work related emails)..... she agreed! well she told me some but not ALL until yesterday after I told her I wanted a polygraph from her for xmas. 

She also gave me new timeline on the affair and the fact they did have sex for longer then she first said (not just oral or the in and quickly out). It was also painful to get the extra detail about the fact she missed her flight, went back to the hotel room and performed oral on him in the morning right after she spoke with me on the phone, when she had claimed she only gave oral at night after drinking etc...but that doesn't hurt me as bad right now as this:

I told her to tell me any contact - and she has with the exception of three instances (and these are her versions)

1) She happened to run into him at the company cafe - she confronted him and asked him why he pursued her, he ruined her life, and that we were in counseling.

2) They had met for the first time at a local business function only prior months before the affair. He emailed her and said it was nice to meet her. After the affair - she was cleaning her mailbox and stumbled upon the email.. she said it pissed her off and emailed back asking why? and how can you do this to us ?

3) He IM'd her b/c he was concerned that I had gained access to her linkedin and that I clicked on his profile? She claims not and that she accidentally clicked on his profile...

None of the three above would have upset me if she had told me immediately. She has told me of other instances where similar things like this have happened (one time they glanced at each other at a big local conference during the day but nothing was said and he walked the other way, this is after I told his wife). The problem is, I thought we were done with lies. I looked into her eyes at night, 100 times, and asked her if there was ANY contact I do not know about. She had looked me right in the eyes and says I knew everything... which is a lie.

This morning was tough. I told her I still love her but am trying to emotionally disconnect myself from her. I am tired of giving forgiveness when there are still lies - even if the truth doesn't matter in our rebuilding, it's the LIE that is killing our relationship. I have made this clear to her so many times but she continues to do it. I have given her so many times to come clean with everything but she continues to lie. The only way to get information is to get a polygraph (or the threat of one). Has anyone done this and what was the end result?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Paulson

Have her take the polygraph. You need it.

Please know that marriage issues/infidelity is very high in relationships where there is a child with learning disabilities.

Find a counselor for your wife that can help get her head sorted out not just about your marriage issues/infidelity but in the way she integrates with your special needs child.

I am not surprised about the additional trickle truth nor should you be if you have read many threads on TAM.

If you still love your wife then get tougher. Accept no lies.

Order the poly and she needs a good counselor.

Start there.

HM


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

A lot of BS's have gone that route with mixed results. The threat of it seems to be greater than the poly itself.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> Paulson
> 
> Have her take the polygraph. You need it.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the reply. Not to give excuses or blame but she has needed counseling since our child was born, she suffered postpartum depression from day one. I recall her mentioning it but I brushed it off and didn't recognize her calls for help...We pushed through. BIG MISTAKE. 

She has not felt as an adequate mother or wife for the past (6-7 years). She has always performed well at work and received several praises and bonuses/monetary rewards. She had switched roles and was learning the ropes just before the affair happened. She then felt she was not doing well at work and was feeling a lot of pressure. She then felt inadequate at work. Inadequate as a mother, a wife, and then work was too much. She broke. A guy showed her attention and passion and she fell for it. She made a huge f'n mistake that put everything at risk. These are not excuses just the path that led her to make the biggest mistake she has ever made. She is human, and human make mistakes. That is why I can forgive. I am not a doormat however, and I have demanded the truth. This has not been the case. I am lost now. The most damaging lies were told after I found out but she withheld the small lies that could break us. This angers me more then anything. Sorry for the rant....it felt good to release this.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

As long as she has friendships with other men, especially close friendships, you can forget about trust...you might convince yourself that you can or do trust her again, but imo generally speaking you are lying to yourself

she sounds like she has poor boundries...and any changes she makes to these will NOT be what SHE wants to do, or what SHE FEELS she needs for herself, they will be changes YOU ask her to do, changes she will make FOR you...going against who she really is...sucks and I am sorry you are here...


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

pauslon said:


> Thank you very much for the reply. Not to give excuses or blame but she has needed counseling since our child was born, she suffered postpartum depression from day one. I recall her mentioning it but I brushed it off and didn't recognize her calls for help...We pushed through. BIG MISTAKE.
> 
> She has not felt as an adequate mother or wife for the past (6-7 years). She has always performed well at work and received several praises and bonuses/monetary rewards. She had switched roles and was learning the ropes just before the affair happened. She then felt she was not doing well at work and was feeling a lot of pressure. She then felt inadequate at work. Inadequate as a mother, a wife, and then work was too much. She broke. A guy showed her attention and passion and she fell for it. She made a huge f'n mistake that put everything at risk. These are not excuses just the path that led her to make the biggest mistake she has ever made. She is human, and human make mistakes. That is why I can forgive. I am not a doormat however, and I have demanded the truth. This has not been the case. I am lost now. The most damaging lies were told after I found out but she withheld the small lies that could break us. This angers me more then anything. Sorry for the rant....it felt good to release this.


My wife fed me the same steaming pile of cow dung...after our daughter was born, post partum blah blah blah and she went on a cheating frenzy for 4 years....coworkers and bosses were her partners...

the same **** MY wife went through, that YOUR wife went through or feels...is the same stuff thousands of women go through with one major differenc, THEY dont cheat

the reasons my iwife gave me, and your wife have you, these are not reasons why they cheated...these are POST-cheating excuses to justify or explain what happened...no one says "i cheated for no reason, or because I am a cheater"...they FIND any and all possbile bullcrap excuses to justify it...its a steaming pile of cow dung and cheaters expect their spouses to take a bite...oh they will DOUSE it with sugar to make it taste better, but trust me I can still taste the ****e


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

pauslon said:


> *even if the truth doesn't matter in our rebuilding,* it's the LIE that is killing our relationship. I have made this clear to her so many times but she continues to do it.


The truth *does* matter in rebuilding your relationship. Without it, there can be no trust; the lies demonstrate a lack of remorse; you'll likely find yourself in a false R.

A couple more thoughts:

It sounds like there is still a possibility of her having contact with the OM - even if limited. You should insist that any possibility is eliminated. If that means she quits her job, then that's what she needs to do. 

Maybe I missed it, but did she send him a no contact letter that you reviewed? That needs to happen if it hasn't.

Don't just threaten a polygraph. Either insist that she take one or not; but be ready and willing to end your marriage if you insist and she refuses.

Make her understand the importance of her telling the truth - that your marriage is dependent on it.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

badmemory said:


> The truth *does* matter in rebuilding your relationship. Without it, there can be no trust; the lies demonstrate a lack of remorse; you'll likely find yourself in a false R.
> 
> A couple more thoughts:
> 
> ...


Sorry let me rephrase that. 

What she lied about was insignificant. It would not have upset me. It's the fact she LIED. It doesn't make any sense to me why she lied? It should be something she should be afraid of? It's like asking what she had for dinner and she says fish when she had chicken. It's the LIE.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

pauslon said:


> Sorry let me rephrase that.
> 
> What she lied about was insignificant. It would not have upset me. It's the fact she LIED. It doesn't make any sense to me why she lied? It should be something she should be afraid of? It's like asking what she had for dinner and she says fish when she had chicken. It's the LIE.


"What she had for dinner"...

How about asking how many Restaurants she has eaten at since you've been married?

You need to schedule a poly. You'll then get more of the truth. You need to drive to take the poly. You'll then get more of the truth. At the parking lot of the poly place will probably be where she gives the mother-load of truth.

You then go inside and HAVE HER TAKE THE TEST.

Well, this is what you SHOULD do, if you really want to be able to get past what your WS has done and try for a true R(on your side anyway).

But I can tell that you won't. You are afraid of learning the truth. Once you get the "whole" truth, you know that there is no going back. You're going to try to force your yourself into believing that you are over it. But this never works. No for long anyway.

The way I read it is that there is a HIGH chance that she has cheated on you before this. Very high. What are you going to do in another 6 months, 2 years, or a decade, when it comes out that she had cheated another time(s) before this?...


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

pauslon said:


> ...She become much more sexual with me as well.... Our relationship now is amazing but hanging by a thread. Sounds strange but we are completely in love and I want no one else. ...





pauslon said:


> The following is at the stage I/we are at:
> 1) Our marriage right now has never experienced as much passion as it ever has before. ....


Google "hysterical bonding"....you're in a fog of your own right now.



pauslon said:


> well I thought we were doing better until I realized I needed the complete TRUTH for us to work. I need to build trust in her for our marriage to work. I wanted to trust she was telling me everything. This was not so as I suspected. ...well she told me some but not ALL until yesterday after I told her I wanted a polygraph from her for xmas.
> 
> She also gave me new timeline on the affair and the fact they did have sex for longer then she first said... I looked into her eyes at night, 100 times, and asked her if there was ANY contact I do not know about. She had looked me right in the eyes and says I knew everything... which is a lie....


It's called "trickle-truth"....very common. It's indication that you are still just finding out the tip of the iceberg. There's always more, and more, and more....



pauslon said:


> Thank you very much for the reply. Not to give excuses or blame but ....


Actually, you are excusing her actions all the time. Your posts are full of excuses for her. 



pauslon said:


> Sorry let me rephrase that.
> 
> What she lied about was insignificant. It would not have upset me. It's the fact she LIED. ...


Sort of, but not really. Every lie is significant. ESPECIALLY after an affair.

Basically, you can't trust her because you know she's a confirmed liar, repeatedly. Also, her stories don't always add-up or make complete sense...again, because of the lies and holes in the stories (omission of truth, omission of all events, etc.). The hysterical bonding sex is clouding your judgement because you just want things to smooth over, and you feel so horrible right now, the sex is the only thing giving you hope.

I'm sorry you're here.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

pauslon said:


> Sorry let me rephrase that.
> 
> *What she lied about was insignificant.* It would not have upset me. It's the fact she LIED. It doesn't make any sense to me why she lied? It should be something she should be afraid of? It's like asking what she had for dinner and she says fish when she had chicken. It's the LIE.


I think you need to look at her motivation for the lies before you are too quick to assume they're insignificant. Why is she lying? Let's look at the possibilities.

- She wants to avoid giving full details because she feels that increases the chances of you leaving. Even though she has ended the A, she's made up her own mind that full disclosure will hurt her chances to R. That's referred to - as her wanting to avoid consequences.

- She's untruthful about what you believe are small details; that if found out, may lead to other revelations. Such as; the A was much longer and more intense; and/or that she is still in contact with OM.

Based on what I've read in your story, I tend to believe the first possibility is more likely. You know her best, but I wouldn't rule out the poly either way.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> By the way make sure your MC is competent and not worthless.
> 
> You'll know you have a worthless, if not harmful, MC that will further victimize you if any one of these four gems is suggested or advocated:
> 
> ...


Alot of that sounds like our first MC...she said it was inevitable that with the state of the marriage one of you would have cheated..to me that gives WH confirmation that what he did was justified. I clearly remember him vigoursly nodding his head in agreement...well of course he would. I wish now I had stopped her and said you know what..no that is not true..I could not do that to someone behind their back..I would have felt way too guilty. That is what annoys me about WH is that I think a part of him felt guilty but knowing him he felt bad about "hurting" his AP so that is why he kept this long distance EA going with her.

Plus some of the blame was put on me as well...understand that I blame myself for my shaire of the marriage issues but I wish it was emphasized to him more that what he did was wrong.

When I mentioned to her that WH's EA was with a filipino women she said wow there are some beautiful filipino girls...okay and that is supposed to help me how??


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

badmemory said:


> I think you need to look at her motivation for the lies before you are too quick to assume they're insignificant. Why is she lying? Let's look at the possibilities.
> 
> - She wants to avoid giving full details because she feels that increases the chances of you leaving. Even though she has ended the A, she's made up her own mind that full disclosure will hurt her chances to R. That's referred to - as her wanting to avoid consequences.
> 
> ...


I have come to same conclusion. I want so bad it be A, but can not rule out B. Wishing is not reality. She is feeling pain right now, she thinks we are over (or damn near it). I am trying to take the emotion out of my decision to R. 

I need the polygraph but trying to decide which route I want to pursue before that. 

If I chose R, then poly, then I will look at results and if cleared, we can start working on R. 

The other (gulp) alternatives we are done b/c

1) too much lie already, I gave her the chance to come clean (well over fifty times) but she couldn't/wouldn't, Poly doesn't matter, in fact I wouldn't want to know.

2) Poly route and she confesses everything just before or the poly shows lies...


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

aug said:


> No, that does not follow. We on TAM here have seen time and time again that the cheating spouse attends the marriage counseling (MC) in order to pacify the betrayed spouse.
> 
> You need true remorse from her before even considering MC. Otherwise MC is a waste of money and time.


So very TRUE! The first time we attended MC after DD#1 I did not know at the time that H was still in contact with her while we were going to MC. Believe me to this day that still burns me...but I guess that is the separation of lives that often occurs for the WS. They kind of block out what they are doing with their AP.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Well I agree there's no reason to give her a poly if you've made up your mind to D.

If she is willing to take one, that's a first step toward her demonstrating remorse if you want to consider R. The second step is her passing it. 

Just understand however, they are not completely reliable. But even so, there are two other positive outcomes that are possible even before she takes it.

1 - As I mentioned, she demonstrates remorse by agreeing to it.

2 - There's at least a chance that you'll get a confession ahead of the poly date. If that happens, don't cancel it.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Polys get it wrong. I have seen various numbers ranging from 60 to 90 percent accuracy. IE there is somewhere between 10 and 40 percent chance of a false answer. You have to decide whether to end the marriage based on such a tool. Some guys will say it's not perfect but the best there is. My view is the odds of failure are too high. I wish there was a magical way to know I had the truth, but there isn't.

The second point of polys is to use the threat of one to put her under pressure. The idea is that she will confess stuff in the parking lot outside the poly place.

You can see a bit of that in the extra three contacts. All accidental. Really? And to tell him he ruined her life. Again, really? Sorry, but I find it easier to suspect she is missing him and wanted contact with him.

I know how it will make you feel to read that. But it is better to face the truth. You need to assume every story she tells you is minimisation. Put her under more pressure to come clean by tying together the this she tells you and calling her in the bits that seem fishy.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

pauslon said:


> Thank you very much for the reply. Not to give excuses or blame but she has needed counseling since our child was born, she suffered postpartum depression from day one. I recall her mentioning it but I brushed it off and didn't recognize her calls for help...We pushed through. BIG MISTAKE.
> 
> She has not felt as an adequate mother or wife for the past (6-7 years). She has always performed well at work and received several praises and bonuses/monetary rewards. She had switched roles and was learning the ropes just before the affair happened. She then felt she was not doing well at work and was feeling a lot of pressure. She then felt inadequate at work. Inadequate as a mother, a wife, and then work was too much. She broke. A guy showed her attention and passion and she fell for it. She made a huge f'n mistake that put everything at risk. These are not excuses just the path that led her to make the biggest mistake she has ever made. She is human, and human make mistakes. That is why I can forgive. I am not a doormat however, and I have demanded the truth. This has not been the case. I am lost now. The most damaging lies were told after I found out but she withheld the small lies that could break us. This angers me more then anything. Sorry for the rant....it felt good to release this.


She made a mistake and gave some guy oral pleasure for months. That's not a mistake that's a decision to choose someone else over you.

You're being taken advantage of.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

She does not deserve a chance. If she is given a chance it will be a act of mercy.

And the op is making excuses. Period. If he was divorcing but listed her reasons than that would be true. But because he is taking her back, so these are excuses.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

pauslon said:


> I found out my wife cheated on me when on a business trip over two months ago. I want to be with her in the end and I am willing to forgive, something I NEVER thought I would be able to do before I found out about the affair. My wife is very attractive and has men approach her ALL the time b/c 1) her looks 2) her personality (ie she not a b*tch towards any person!, one of the attributes I love about her).
> 
> *Your wife internalizes stress and that may be problem for her that she has not dealt with well.*
> 
> ...


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

illwill said:


> She does not deserve a chance. If she is given a chance it will be a act of mercy.
> 
> And the op is making excuses. Period. If he was divorcing but listed her reasons than that would be true. But because he is taking her back, so these are excuses.


Just to diverge quickly ilwill, but this is exactly where our other thread is - you questioned my giving mvstbx a another chance but this is why we do 

because of wanting to save something you know deep down apart from this one weakness is a really good marriage - trouble is its the balls breaking part that more often than not spirals the marriage to destruction

As you say upon reflection my giving her a chance without consequences was eventually an act of mercy and a green light to go right ahead and carry on doing the same whenever she suddenly felt things were a little wrong for her

My mistake ....but an understandable one


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

pauslon said:


> She has not felt as an adequate mother or wife for the past (6-7 years). She has always performed well at work and received several praises and bonuses/monetary rewards. She had switched roles and was learning the ropes just before the affair happened. She then felt she was not doing well at work and was feeling a lot of pressure. She then felt inadequate at work. Inadequate as a mother, a wife, and then work was too much. She broke. A guy showed her attention and passion and she fell for it. She made a huge f'n mistake that put everything at risk. These are not excuses just the path that led her to make the biggest mistake she has ever made. She is human, and human make mistakes. That is why I can forgive. I am not a doormat however, and I have demanded the truth. This has not been the case. I am lost now. The most damaging lies were told after I found out but she withheld the small lies that could break us. This angers me more then anything. Sorry for the rant....it felt good to release this.


This to the letter the same as mine, amazing



pauslon said:


> I have come to same conclusion. I want so bad it be A, but can not rule out B. Wishing is not reality. She is feeling pain right now, she thinks we are over (or damn near it). I am trying to take the emotion out of my decision to R.
> 
> ...


Hate to say this but you are the crossroads my friend 

Upon reflection you are at that point when I look back and realize right there I could have changed it all by cutting it away.

I had in my head 

_"everything's been really great apart from this blip 

Everyone is entitled to a mistake

She seems to be sorry ( but I know she's still lying to me about small almost insignificant things but that's telling gutwise they are the opposite very significant ) 

Can we get past this? I SO, so want to get it back to how we were 

Surely she'd never do this again if I tried to forgive it and we moved on and left it all alone behind us ?"_

My decision going against my gut feeling was to put it behind us and reconcile and I fought against my gut for some time and with real belief. Others told me you're a fool - she'll kill you, she's not paying for it, and will feel she got off, got away with it 


......It was the biggest mistake of my life 

8 wasted years later ...

___________

All our experiences are ours, unique and others making the decision I should have made could have ended up worse - who knows ? but for me I wish every day I could change that decision

You have to do what's right for you and hopefully it will work


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Reading this, I realise they in my case I was not thinking wishfully. I was there for the kids. I wanted my wife but I knew she didn't want me.

Perhaps that is something unusual in my case. Dunno if it makes a difference.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Just to diverge quickly ilwill, but this is exactly where our other thread is - you questioned my giving mvstbx a another chance but this is why we do
> 
> because of wanting to save something you know deep down apart from this one weakness is a really good marriage - trouble is its the balls breaking part that more often than not spirals the marriage to destruction
> 
> ...


She was in the same marriage you were in and had bo problem destroying it. So maybe only you valued it. And cheating always outranks other issues, because it cuts to the heart of why we get married. We choose our spouse out of billions of people. Makes us special.

Not all, but most people who stay for the kids are lying. It sounds more honorable than fear.

Fear tends to be more powerful than love.

But dont tell anyone. Its a secret.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

pauslon said:


> I have come to same conclusion. I want so bad it be A, but can not rule out B. Wishing is not reality. She is feeling pain right now, she thinks we are over (or damn near it). I am trying to take the emotion out of my decision to R.
> 
> I need the polygraph but trying to decide which route I want to pursue before that.
> 
> ...


Dear pauslon,

You needn't be in a hurry to make any decisions and you definitely should not tell your WW yet that you wish to R.

Give yourself time to learn more about what happened (whether with the polygraph or otherwise) and for your emotions to settle down a bit.

But do have a legal consultation to find out what your rights and obligations are if you do decide to D.

In the meantime, observe your WW carefully: her words, emotions and, most importantly, actions. This will give you the greatest insight into how remorseful she is and how seriously committed she is to reconciling.

Also, do a limited "180." Start working out. Go out on your own with friends from time to time. When at home, be cordial to her but not lovey-dovey. Start to get use to the idea of being on your own and start to show her that you can live without her.

If you do all this, you will have the best chance of making the right decision whether to R or D and, if you do decide to R, you will improve the chances of success.

Good luck.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

illwill said:


> She was in the same marriage you were in and had bo problem destroying it. So maybe only you valued it. And cheating always outranks other issues, because it cuts to the heart of why we get married. We choose our spouse out of billions of people. Makes us special.
> 
> Not all, but most people who stay for the kids are lying. It sounds more honorable than fear.
> 
> ...


Shhhhhhhh..... 

But ok. Let me think about this.

As one who did, I would suggest confused might be a better word than lying. There is a mix of motivations and it can be hard to separate truth from noise. Shame at failing as a partner, getting in a knot over ideological or religious commitments to lifetime marriage, wondering when it is really finished, knowing that you still have feelings for this person who betrayed you. It is the weirdest thing in the world to be able to love and despise someone in the same moment. And obviously some of what I listed here could be characterised as fear.

I remember being very focused on getting the kids raised, with no plans or dreams beyond that. I don't recall being suicidal, but there were times when I would not have minded dropping dead as soon as the kids were adult. 

Once they became adult, I made renewed effort at rebuilding the marriage. My wife was not cooperative, she was happy to ride the status quo. That is her. She had a balance she was ok with, and hates change. She was content to be married out of duty. So I tried to find experiences we could share, holidays we could take together and so on. None of that worked. So I reached the point where I just said "we fix this or we divorce" and that got her attention. 

Even during the worst years, when we both agreed marrying as and when we did had been a mistake, I never threatened divorce. Yet I was coldly able to say "good marriage or none at all" when my kids were grown.

And I can't explain why, but I never considered raising the kids and then divorcing. I think I felt that if I was going to stay married I had to work at it regardless of whether my efforts were reciprocated.

Another factor is that twenty something Wazza saw the relationship as validating his worth. Surviving years of a bad marriage, I had to change that. I became stronger. My notion of relationships became healthier. Fifty something Wazza enjoys his marriage and his wife is a dear and amazing friend as well as a lover, but he is also aware of her faults. If infidelity happens again he will not be blindsided. And he has other close relationships and a life outside of her. If divorce happens life will go on.

*Edited to add :* there is nothing like taking a bad relationship and making it work to teach you how to work at relationships. And I think not giving up is a good thing. But ultimately it takes two to make things work. If your spouse is not trying, you can't make it good alone.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

I have never allowed anyone to define me. All your reasons sound like weakness and fear. Not to insult you, but that is what it seems to me. Self respect is the best lesson anyone on here can get. 

I disagree you deserve a badge for taking back a cheater. Forgiveness is something i honor. But giving someone a pass on disrespect, with the hope that they will feel guilty by themselves is cowardly.

Wazza we see things regarding infidelity in different ways. Frankly, we see life different also. People dont need anymore reasons to be weak. 

I respect you. You prove it can work. But many people should leave. That includes this op.

If your wife cheated again would you leave? Yes or no.

Ill leave it there. So, i dont get banned again.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

I am no infidelity expert so you should defer to the advice of the good people of TAM who are advising you on how to proceed. However I am compelled to point out a few things about your wife’s attitude toward her infidelity.



> she confronted him and asked him why he pursued her, he ruined her life





> After the affair - she was cleaning her mailbox and stumbled upon the email.. she said it pissed her off and emailed back asking why? and how can you do this to us ?


In both of the above quotes she is blaming the OM for everything (WTF?!). He pursued her … Really, is that all it takes to bed her? I am a woman and I can tell you that all women know how to instantly shut-down a man who is “pursuing” them.



> Inadequate as a mother, a wife, and then work was too much. She broke. A guy showed her attention and passion and she fell for it.


The above quote is an excuse because if it were true then every woman on the planet would cheat the moment they experience stress in their lives. Do you believe that?

These quoted statements represent the attitude of a woman who is taking no responsibility for her actions, seeking to blame the OM and use common life stressors as excuses for her *choices*. She made *choices *every step of the way … at any time she could have chosen to stop her involvement with OM.

I am sorry OP; I don’t see true remorse here. Your wife has a serious character problem and, it needs to be fixed or you will likely find yourself in this situation again in the future.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

illwill said:


> I have never allowed anyone to define me. All your reasons sound like weakness and fear. Not to insult you, but that is what it seems to me. Self respect is the best lesson anyone on here can get.
> 
> I disagree you deserve a badge for taking back a cheater. Forgiveness is something i honor. But giving someone a pass on disrespect, with the hope that they will feel guilty by themselves is cowardly.
> 
> ...


When I was younger I found self worth in what others thought of me. Each person can decide for themselves whether that is true for them, but it don't think it is all that unusual. 

I agree that self respect is an important lesson to learn. 

You talk of fear and weakness but not duty. It's not all about me, I had a duty to my kids, and without slandering anyone who sees it differently, I did not feel I had a right to pursue my happiness at the expense of theirs. I know there are arguments about it being worse to stay together and be unhappy, but I did not even consider that at the time, nor do I necessarily agree with it now. (Long discussion and thread jack). By my personal values, abandoning my kids to someone who was a cheat and a liar with appalling taste in friends and lovers (my wife circa 1990) would have been weakness.

To offer just one example, a friend of a friend went to jail a few years back for setting up a hidden webcam in his 16 year old stepdaughter's bedroom and filming her inappropriately. My decision to stay protected my children from that risk. 

Certainly I am sometimes weak, sometimes fearful. Aren't we all?

I never said anything about deserving a badge for taking back a cheater. I said it is good to not give up and to know how to work at things, but I also said you can't make it work alone. But the notion that I gave her a pass is just not true. There are shades of grey between a loving, issue free relationship and divorce. 

I dunno whether this OP should leave. There are no guarantees. I offer my experiences to help him in understanding what is happening so he can make his own decisions, judge his own spouse. I am saying that reconciliation can be possible. I am not saying it always is. I don't know in this case. 

Would I leave if Mrs Wazza cheated again? Almost certainly yes. Depending on the specific circumstances I may or may not give her a chance to talk first, but I cannot conceive a scenario where I would stay. Every major decision we make as a couple now assumes that we may or may not be together till death do us part. Mrs Wazza hates that, but I see it as a simple recognition of truth.

And don't get banned. I am happy to discuss if it helps OP and respectful disagreement is a useful way to explore ideas. I don't agree with everything you wrote, but none of it offends or upsets me.


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

I would like to thank everyone for their replies and advice. 

To recap, I discovered 3 months ago my wife had a affair on a business trip. Before the affair, our marriage was not doing well but neither of us really spoke about it. We spoke to each other like business partners or best friends but not like two people who were in love. The passion was not there (rarely any "I Love you" or touching outside of when I wanted sex). We got stuff done, kids to school, household chores, meals cooked/planned, kids to bed. After the day was done, we were exhausted and I spent time in front of my computer and she would work/TV. I never really enjoyed coming home from work outside of spending time with the kids. 

We thought we had everything, two children, both our careers were really taking off and making more money then we ever needed. We just settled, neither tried to work on the marriage. Earlier in the year, I had even thrown out the D word, b/c she was not sexual with me what so ever, she was on a birth control that lowered her sex drive. She talk with her doctor, and found new birth control method and the sex increased, but still lacked her being satisfied (I tried!) and passion. Sex was just something she did for me. I accepted it. 

We also grew very independent. She did what she wanted, I did what I wanted. Neither of us consulted the other person. We were not working together. We ignored my/her parents when they gave us books on marriage, we were both headstrong and arrogant. We both thought "we got this, marriage is easy". We were slowing growing apart....I even fantasied about having an EA.

Then three months ago, BOOM!. Something I never thought she could do she did. I got all the dirty details. They haunted me in my sleep. I couldn't sleep for 2 months. I had panic attacks 5-8 times a day. I had to seek medical attention and was prescribed anti-depression/sleep aid. 

She has been by my side the entire time, although after I first found out, I believe she was still in shock of what she had done and how absolutely devastated I was. We started MC immediately. The focus has been on me getting better. I have now scheduled personal counseling as well and so has she. 

I have decided I want to R. I can only do this once and she knows it. I figured what we are experiencing now and how we felt when we first met and for several years after is worth the potential pain she may bring to me down the road if she ever cheats again. I have changed as a person, I am a better person, I am more compassionate and the little things no longer bother me. 

My decision to R has been dependent on several factors:
1) I truly believe this is the only affair.
2) I believe she is truly remorseful.
3) I believe her to be a moral person.
4) I believe she lied to me about the affair and still has left out details to protect me and HER.
5) Kids.
6) We both were not going all in for the marriage. We both knew there were issues.

In my ideal world, I would be with her and always have 100% trust in her and know she will never cheat on me. However, my compromises for the real world are:

I will never know all the details. I will never 100% trust her. She may cheat again. That is my reality.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

pauslon said:


> I would like to thank everyone for their replies and advice.
> 
> To recap, I discovered 3 months ago my wife had a affair on a business trip. Before the affair, our marriage was not doing well but neither of us really spoke about it. We spoke to each other like business partners or best friends but not like two people who were in love. The passion was not there (rarely any "I Love you" or touching outside of when I wanted sex). We got stuff done, kids to school, household chores, meals cooked/planned, kids to bed. After the day was done, we were exhausted and I spent time in front of my computer and she would work/TV. I never really enjoyed coming home from work outside of spending time with the kids.
> 
> ...


Paulson, wishing you well as you do this. You summary seems apt. If you truly believe these things then I think you are going in with your eyes open.

There are no guarantees in life. There is not guarantee this will work out, but there is also no guarantee you would find something better if you divorced. 

Two things I want to stress. The first is to find strength within yourself, not validate yourself through others.

The second is......maybe the simplest way to handle this is to give you a couple of paragraphs you could share with your wife if appropriate.

My wife is wonderful and our reconciliation is successful in my view. But the pain of lies and the uncertainty over secrets withheld never totally goes away in my experience (23 years and counting). Your wife thinks she is protecting you by withholding details. She is dead wrong. She is condemning you to the current hurt for the rest of your life. It will fade over time, but never totally go away. Never.

Right now she can tell the truth, and you can verify it. The trail of evidence is still warm. Twenty years from now the evidence will be cold, and it will be too late. No matter how much she desperately wants to remove this stain on your relationship, it will be too late. No matter how many nice, wonderful and amazing things she does, the pain will always be there. If she does not understand this, then she does not truly understand the depth of the damage she has done.

If she truly values your happiness, if she is truly remorseful, then I know that it is hard for her to do, but the greatest gift she can give you, herself, and the marriage, is the truth.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

pauslon said:


> I would like to thank everyone for their replies and advice.
> 
> To recap, I discovered 3 months ago my wife had a affair on a business trip. Before the affair, our marriage was not doing well but neither of us really spoke about it. We spoke to each other like business partners or best friends but not like two people who were in love. The passion was not there (rarely any "I Love you" or touching outside of when I wanted sex). We got stuff done, kids to school, household chores, meals cooked/planned, kids to bed. After the day was done, we were exhausted and I spent time in front of my computer and she would work/TV. I never really enjoyed coming home from work outside of spending time with the kids.
> 
> ...



OP

first off, as I read this your (3 above doesn't seem to fit with the rest of it. "Moral"

Nothing wrong with giving R a shot for a little while, and I see your reasoning vis-a-vis compromises one makes in the real world - but- in the real world sometimes divorce is preferable to a marriage overly compromised.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Saw that you started a new thread on anger. I don't think it helps to have lots of separate threads about the same relationship. Life after divorce, that ia a new thread.

One positive factor in your R is that you got your sex life back. It was horrible to have duty sex with her. You hated it. She hated it. You had grown apart and sex was not bridging the gap.

Horrible to think that falling out of love with you allowed your wife to want another man to romance her and consumate it an erotic experience, also known as fornication which stands fvcking outside of marriage. Either OM picked up on your wife's availability with his horn dog nose or your wife through herself at him. In either case, there was little resistance. Your wife is a little bit of a happy go lucky personality, a person person. 

You right to hate the OM and want to hurt. That is natural. For better or worse the law does not allow jilted husbands to wait with shot guns.

What you can do to release the anger is post the OM on Cheaterville. It can be something very short and factual, leaving out all obvious reference to your wife.

XXPOSOM is a XX-year-old married man and father of XX number of children. He engaged a married woman with small children in an adulterous affair over a period of X months, almost destroying two marriages. After the affair ended and the woman with whom he had cheated was in reconciliation, he continued to make contact with her.

His picture from Facebook and the company website.

Do not tell your wife you are going to do it. If he contacts her, she is supposed to tell you. Cheaterville has been very effective. If your wife questions your judgment, you can tell her that you did it to release anger and you have no regrets.

Does she know you would like to bash OM's head in?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

pauslon said:


> (Edited)
> *My decision to R has been dependent on several factors:
> 1) I truly believe this is the only affair.*
> 2) I believe she is truly remorseful.
> ...


I think that his it these are two that are going to be the most difficult to deal with from here on out. How can you truly forgive 100% when you don't know what you're forgiving.

Have you thought of having her take a polygraph test?

Just having a poly test looming in the near future gets many WS's to give more answers, before they even take the test.

Tell her that one question will be, was there any other infidelity besides this? If shes refuses to take it, then you have you answer...


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## broder62 (Aug 17, 2012)

I've read every post. Here is my take. First, the level of devastation that you are in is apparent. It's like blood, and your wife is a shark. You ARE weak. You ARE co-dependent. You ARE desperate. You ARE needy. You ARE insecure. Your wife does NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT love you or respect you (you can't love someone you do not respect and there is NO GREATER DISRESPECT than cheating on you and lying to you). HER ACTIONS ARE THE TRUTH. She is SIMPLY weighing out benefits of staying with you or getting divorced. She is strategizing this to the greatest benefit to her - which is to get you stable and trusting so she can do this better without getting caught. I KNOW THIS HURTS - but you MUST DIVORCE. I know that's a fear you don't want to face. I get it. Working out the belief of what you want to feel she feels for you versus the reality that HER ACTIONS has shown you is frigging devastaing. The best place you need to visit right now is chumplady dot cm. Read EVERYTHING on there so you have the nads to do what is RIGHT! Even Jesus/God approved of divorce in this circumstance. Sir, it's over. It hurts. This is what is happening - the tearing of flesh. From 1 person to 2 people. Your codependency is making excuses for her and you believe your martyrhood and acceptance has VALUE to her. It does NOT. She DOES NOT LOVE YOU - and if you take her back after the worst thing she could possibly do - then she REALLY WILL NOT RESPECT OR LOVE YOU. What she would respect is you going cold turkey and let her life with A CONSEQUENCE. You are feeding the narcissist with narcissitic supply. ALL THE ATTENTION is on her. You're WORKING for this marriage. WTF? Why are YOU working for her sin. Dude. Visit the site I mentioned. If you get divorced, nothing cannot say you can't remarry sometime in the future. THE ONLY RIGHT CHOICE IS DIVORCE. Until there is a consequence, there is no change. You are teaching her that you will tolerate, accept her spreading her legs and letting another man's face, tounge, saliva and jizz be where YOU put yours, where YOUR kids came out of and where she promised a LIFETIME of FIDELITY. You divorce her. Set the example for your kids. You will never feel safe with this. The outside beauty does NOT REFLECT the inside. It's over. You need to face this. Please visit chumplady.


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## Hemingway (Jul 19, 2013)

[My decision to R has been dependent on several factors:
1) I truly believe this is the only affair.]

This is what I also believed, but when threatened with a lie detector test, she eventually came clean and confessed the previous two affairs as well.

I suggest you verify, to avoid heartbreak in future.


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