# I'm troubled that my wife said she never masturbates :/



## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

I've posted on here in detail about my high desire vs. my wife's low desire. Suffice it to say - in spite of on-going counseling and countless private discussions between us about it over a period of decades, the overall pattern stays the same. We end up on her schedule, which is really mostly just when she thinks I need it so bad she probably ought to deliver..

Recently, we were having a conversation that made it easy for me to casually ask her, do you ever masturbate? She said nope. I said, you mean like never ever? And she said not never ever, but it has been many (many) years. I told her that I do "now and then" just to stay freaking sane during our dry spells and to make it easier to not focus on it so much, and I also told her I fantasize about her and whatever recent sex we had that was really good. When we have really satisfying sex, it lingers with me for a while and sometimes I replay parts of it in my mind during a little private time. I told her that should be considered a compliment, and she said it was. Then I said, so conversely, I feel very "un-complimented" knowing she never does the same.

She said in a recent marriage counseling session that she really only initiates sex (rarely actually initiates) or makes herself available for me to initiate, for my sake. She is a reactive sexual partner - I think that's that the correct term for someone who can totally get into it after the action starts, even if there is almost never a driving urge on her part to do so.

Between knowing that she has sex with me to satisfy my needs (I should note here that she almost never fails to orgasm) and knowing that she virtually never masturbates, it feels pretty hopeless for me. How can this ever get better? Playfully reminding or eventually nagging only annoys, and waiting for her is agonizing. Appeasement will eventually die off since it is not a heartfelt desire for her.

I'm so down about this and just feel like giving up. I never ever (ever!) would have married her if I knew it would be such a huge damn struggle.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I'll keep this as short as possible. You cannot make your wife into what you want her to be.

The burden of change is yours to bear. Learn to accept her responsive desire, or don't. There is no other solution.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Accept that your W does satisfy you sexual needs. Some completely shut down(men as well). She is LD.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Cletus said:


> I'll keep this as short as possible. You cannot make your wife into what you want her to be.
> 
> The burden of change is yours to bear. Learn to accept her responsive desire, or don't. There is no other solution.


What if it was her that made this post and said she feels hopeless that her HD husband wants more from her? Would you tell her she must learn to accept it and that the burden of change is hers?


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Yeswecan said:


> Accept that your W does satisfy you sexual needs. Some completely shut down(men as well). She is LD.


Yes, she does satisfy my needs during the infrequent sex that we have. But my needs include not going extended periods without sex.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Was it always like this? Even when you were dating? Were there any signs it would head in this direction?

Your mentioning of how 'Un complimented' you felt when you discovered she doesn't think in the same way you do whenever she masturbates, why is it important that it be the same as how you do it?

Is there a possibility that you are seeking validation so much that you have forgotten where it needs to stem from first (i.e within)?


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Luminous said:


> Was it always like this? Even when you were dating? Were there any signs it would head in this direction?
> 
> Your mentioning of how 'Un complimented' you felt when you discovered she doesn't think in the same way you do whenever she masturbates, why is it important that it be the same as how you do it?
> 
> Is there a possibility that you are seeking validation so much that you have forgotten where it needs to stem from first (i.e within)?


It's just a way of telling her that it hurts to be neglected and not ever fantasized about by her. Yep - I need some validation!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why do you keep trying to make your problem your wife's problem? She doesn't have a problem with her behavior - you're the one with the problem. You are the only one you can control or change. Stop expecting/hoping/wishing/praying for her to change as she is happy with the way she is. You do you. Set forth your expectations and consult a lawyer to get the low-down on life after divorce. She might get motivated or not.


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## Marriednatlanta (Sep 21, 2016)

Mylehigh said:


> Recently, we were having a conversation that made it easy for me to casually ask her, do you ever masturbate? She said nope. I said, you mean like never ever? And she said not never ever, but it has been many (many) years. I told her that I do "now and then" just to stay freaking sane during our dry spells and to make it easier to not focus on it so much, and I also told her I fantasize about her and whatever recent sex we had that was really good. When we have really satisfying sex, it lingers with me for a while and sometimes I replay parts of it in my mind during a little private time. I told her that should be considered a compliment, and she said it was. Then I said, so conversely, I feel very "un-complimented" knowing she never does the same.
> 
> Between knowing that she has sex with me to satisfy my needs (I should note here that she almost never fails to orgasm) and knowing that she virtually never masturbates, it feels pretty hopeless for me. How can this ever get better? Playfully reminding or eventually nagging only annoys, and waiting for her is agonizing. Appeasement will eventually die off since it is not a heartfelt desire for her.
> 
> I'm so down about this and just feel like giving up. I never ever (ever!) would have married her if I knew it would be such a huge damn struggle.


I can truly identify with everything you wrote (we have similar DWs). I think the part you are missing is the un-complimented part.....have you asked her point blank: “What are your fantasies?” My DW had a hard time with this concept and we are still talking about the it (difference between fantasy and reality). I can promise you - she has a list of the things you are doing that drive her sex drive DOWN not up. Could also be how you dress, shave, comb hair, etc....or how you are in front of other people with her...? Do you dominate the conversation? Does she have a voice? Etc.....


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> Why do you keep trying to make your problem your wife's problem? She doesn't have a problem with her behavior - you're the one with the problem...


Thank you for your reply, but I don't think it's fair or appropriate to make unilateral changes to any kind of agreement, most certainly including marriage. She withdraws sexually and I'm supposed to just keep on keepin' on like nothing happened? Nah... she has to give to this relationship and keep the love and intimacy alive just as much as I do. 

So if my behavior were to breach the contract of marriage would you say it's her problem if I didn't have a problem with it?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Mylehigh said:


> Thank you for your reply, but I don't think it's fair or appropriate to make unilateral changes to any kind of agreement, most certainly including marriage. She withdraws sexually and I'm supposed to just keep on keepin' on like nothing happened? Nah... she has to give to this relationship and keep the love and intimacy alive just as much as I do.
> 
> *So if my behavior were to breach the contract of marriage would you say it's her problem if I didn't have a problem with it?*


Yep. She would have it in her power to accept it, change her expectations or divorce. There really aren't any other choices.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Marriednatlanta said:


> I can truly identify with everything you wrote (we have similar DWs). I think the part you are missing is the un-complimented part.....have you asked her point blank: “What are your fantasies?” My DW had a hard time with this concept and we are still talking about the it (difference between fantasy and reality). I can promise you - she has a list of the things you are doing that drive her sex drive DOWN not up. Could also be how you dress, shave, comb hair, etc....or how you are in front of other people with her...? Do you dominate the conversation? Does she have a voice? Etc.....


She definitely has a voice - I'm not a dominator by any means. I think the thing I do that drives her sex drive down is communicating openly and honestly about the problem of too infrequent sex. 

What I mean is that there is no way around it, just by her knowing that it is a problem for me, it creates pressure. She has told me this. 

An example might be if we are having a really great time out for dinner, maybe a couple drinks out on a patio in some cool location, just pretty much clicking right there in her happy spot, she realizes towards the end of the night that I will probably want sex and she tells me that in situations like that, cuddling our way to sleep to top off the night feels like all the intimacy that she needs. She says the whole experience was all the intimacy she typically needs. And I agree, it is all intimate! But I typically would want to top that night off with sex at the end of the night. To me, that is a continuation of the intimacy. To her, she feels pressure knowing that our needs in that department are different and that I will be disappointed if she doesn't go along. Even if I don't say something, she's said she knows the disappointment would be there if we don't do it, so she feels pressure. Pressure from having the kind of date night that so many people on here say the HD person needs to give the LD person "to get them there." Of course sex sometimes happens, but just not often enough. And there are many times I go along with the cuddling is enough approach. But it would just pretty much always be that if I didn't bring up that this is a problem. So then there is pressure... Loopty loop we go.

So... does that mean a person should not tell their spouse it is a problem so that the spouse never takes it as pressure knowing the problem exists? I think not.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> Yep. She would have it in her power to accept it, change her expectations or divorce. There really aren't any other choices.


Thanks for the depressing reality check.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Mylehigh said:


> Thanks for the depressing reality check.


You're welcome. Now you can stop wasting money on that marriage counselor because you weren't getting anywhere anyway.


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## Marriednatlanta (Sep 21, 2016)

Mylehigh said:


> She definitely has a voice - I'm not a dominator by any means. I think the thing I do that drives her sex drive down is communicating openly and honestly about the problem of too infrequent sex.
> 
> What I mean is that there is no way around it, just by her knowing that it is a problem for me, it creates pressure. She has told me this.
> 
> ...


I can relate to that...we once went to dinner, and movie (50 shades of grey) and I thought it was a sure thing. I think it was the day after vday too. And somehow...we got in bed, she rolled over, and that was that. The next day she was like “that was the best date night we have ever had”. I was kinda blown away and totally baffled. 

But, I still believe, you have not done your homework. There is missing link. Does she fantasize? What really turns her on? Has she ever watched porn? Etc...and I also agree with @Blondilocks about your options if you really have done your homework. 

The NO SEX thing kinda worked for me for awhile because she then felt like “wait, what’s gong on?”....

Good luck.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mylehigh said:


> ...knowing that she has sex with me to satisfy my needs (I should note here that she almost never fails to orgasm) and knowing that she virtually never masturbates, it feels pretty hopeless for me. How can this ever get better?


*Desire needs distance.* If you have a requirement that your wife always has to enjoy herself in order to satisfy you, then you have made her pleasure all about pleasing you. As ironic as that sounds, try to reverse roles and see things from a new perspective...

What if your wife begged for a one sided experience where she had a ton of desire for you to please her. Imagine yourself not in the mood but willing to oblige. Perhaps you might even really enjoy that. But what if she got upset if you were focused on her and she insisted you have to enjoy yourself as well. Now imagine this happening almost every time year after year. Eventually it would grow old, you would have no desire to masturbate, and the few times you might feel yourself slightly in the mood you would finally become receptive to your wife's advances just to please her and to get her to stop nagging. 

Using the situation above, sex might be fun at first, but over time it would get old. So how do you fix it? Well first of all you need to give your wife some space to enjoy desiring you at least a little bit. Stop encouraging her to orgasm every time. Allow her to focus just on you. Let her be more in control. Just as you enjoy fantasizing about your wife, how about giving her a little room to do the same. 

Here is a small example... My wife gets upset with me stimulating with her breasts as she complains they are sensitive and too much too soon feels very uncomfortable. So one time I forbid her to take off her bra no matter what. Ten minutes later I didn't even know what hit me! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> What if it was her that made this post and said she feels hopeless that her HD husband wants more from her? Would you tell her she must learn to accept it and that the burden of change is hers?


Yes.

What you are asking for is fundamentally - "I'm unhappy, you change, and I get to stay the same".

You want something from your wife which she is not built to do. So you first. Stop fantasizing about her. Stop wanting sex. Stop being unsatisfied. Or leave.

My wife wants me to love Brussels Sprouts. Not just eat them when she makes them, but to think about them when their not on my plate. To fantasize about her broiling them just so. To salivate at the mere mention of her serving them for dinner. 

'Cept that ain't happening, so she will have to be satisfied with me enjoying them to the best of my ability when they are served.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Stop talking about the problem. Geez she gets jt. She knows you want more sex now you have to stop telling her. That is a huge turn off. And that pressure that she feels that nothing will ever be good enough unless you guys have sex is a terrible feeling. 

Stop concentrating on the act, and start concentrating on having a great time with her. 

Your never found to get all the sex you need. This is marriage. Stop concentrating on what you don’t have.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Cletus said:


> Yes.
> 
> What you are asking for is fundamentally - "I'm unhappy, you change, and I get to stay the same".
> 
> You want something from your wife which she is not built to do. So you first. Stop fantasizing about her. Stop wanting sex. Stop being unsatisfied. Or leave.


Wow! You really Made a bunch of assumptions to come to that reply. We have been going to marriage counseling and I have made changes. I have made a lot of changes over the last few years. Of course these things can be too complex to type out in a web forum but you will just have to take it at face value that what I am saying is true. 

I’m not such a dolt to gothrough my marriage thinking “how about she just changes and I do nothing different.”

I think you mean well with your reply and I do appreciate the effort but it truly was a swing and a miss. I have ordered and read several books that address these issues and as mentioned, we’ve been in MC for about 10 months. I have made substantial changes on my part but she is showing me that despite verbiage to the contrary, she has become entrenched in her world where she expects me to pretty much just forget about the whole sex thing and be happy anyway. 

Perhaps she wants something from me that I am not built to do. It wasn’t how we started our marriage or how we had a relationship before the marriage. It evolved to her withdrawal. It seemed worth an effort to work on it together. It was me who suggested the MC, made the appointments, and got it all going. Not to change her, but to work on us.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> Stop talking about the problem. Geez she gets jt. She knows you want more sex now you have to stop telling her. That is a huge turn off. And that pressure that she feels that nothing will ever be good enough unless you guys have sex is a terrible feeling.
> 
> Stop concentrating on the act, and start concentrating on having a great time with her.
> 
> Your never found to get all the sex you need. This is marriage. Stop concentrating on what you don’t have.


Geez, another bug batch of assumptions… Holy crap people. You have no idea how much I have concentrated on having a great time with her. She loves to travel and explore other countries and we have been around the world together over this past several years. I ask her out on dates and do many things spontaneously for her. Not for sex, for her. I ask her to go on walks with me, to sit and talk with me. I am very in tune with what is important to her in life and I facilitate making those things happen on a regular basis. I have done that throughout our marriage.

To suggest that we stop talking about the problem is not only based on false assumptions by you that we talk about it every day or even frequently, but it sounds like lousy advice to suggest a couple not communicate about problems. But to each their own.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Mylehigh said:


> What if it was her that made this post and said she feels hopeless that her HD husband wants more from her? Would you tell her she must learn to accept it and that the burden of change is hers?


I would tell her (or you) that you can't change your partner, only they can change themself and then only if they want to. She (or you) can change yourself and that may or may not change the way your partner treats you. That is the beauty behind a 180. If something isn't working, try something completely different until something does work for you.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Stop complaining when people tell you a difficult truth. You want someone to hand you the key to unlocking your wife's passion. Sorry, there is no magic key because, in all likelihood, there is no hidden passion that she is refusing to share with you. 

As we used to say on another board, stop asking your wife to draw with her yellow crayon. For some reason, her Crayola box came with 64 colors but none of them is yellow. So you can learn to enjoy when she draws with other colors, or you can choose to be miserable. Your choice. But stop asking for the magic words that will get her to pull a yellow crayon out of her crayon box. There is no yellow crayon.

Your replies on this thread are basically "I have a yellow crayon in my box, and so does everyone else I know, so she must have one in her box too". Bzzz. Sorry. Thanks for playing. She doesn't have a yellow crayon. And you repeatedly asking to see hers just makes her feel bad. Which doesn't motivate her to draw pictures for you in any of the colors she does have.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Holdingontoit said:


> Stop complaining when people tell you a difficult truth. You want someone to hand you the key to unlocking your wife's passion. Sorry, there is no magic key because, in all likelihood, there is no hidden passion that she is refusing to share with you.
> 
> As we used to say on another board, stop asking your wife to draw with her yellow crayon. For some reason, her Crayola box came with 64 colors but none of them is yellow. So you can learn to enjoy when she draws with other colors, or you can choose to be miserable. Your choice. But stop asking for the magic words that will get her to pull a yellow crayon out of her crayon box. There is no yellow crayon.
> 
> Your replies on this thread are basically "I have a yellow crayon in my box, and so does everyone else I know, so she must have one in her box too". Bzzz. Sorry. Thanks for playing. She doesn't have a yellow crayon. And you repeatedly asking to see hers just makes her feel bad. Which doesn't motivate her to draw pictures for you in any of the colors she does have.


Gimme a break. Everyone here is telling me a truth... yeah they know.



Marriednatlanta said:


> I can relate to that...we once went to dinner, and movie (50 shades of grey) and I thought it was a sure thing. I think it was the day after vday too. And somehow...we got in bed, she rolled over, and that was that. The next day she was like “that was the best date night we have ever had”. I was kinda blown away and totally baffled.
> 
> But, I still believe, you have not done your homework. There is missing link. Does she fantasize? What really turns her on? Has she ever watched porn? Etc...and I also agree with @Blondilocks about your options if you really have done your homework.
> 
> ...


To answer some of these questions -

She says fantasies are not her thing.

What really turns her on most often is all hands sex, but PIV can make her pretty wild too. Just not as often.

Porn is a turnoff for her.

Some people on this thread seem to think I talk about it every day, constantly apply pressure, never just give her what she wants, can’t be satisfied in her zone. None of that is true. They don’t seem to recognize that this thread was created about a singular issue - but that does not mean that our lives or my behaviors are singularly focused. It means that I am focusing on this specific issue looking for possible examples of how others have moved past it. The oversimplification and far reaching assumptions by some people that respond is pretty tiresome. I guess I should have realized that in a forum environment we are really only so much can be explained in a few paragraphs, that people will tend to over simplify. Of course I understand there’s no way for people to know all of the background or details of the overall relationship. I only came on to this forum to talk about this particular issue - not give everybody a total life story and talk about all the things that are great in our relationship. And then I am admonished about not just accepting every far reaching theory based on incorrect assumptions my “truth.”


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> It means that I am focusing on this specific issue looking for possible examples of how others have moved past it.


I wish you well. Stay safe.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Mylehigh,

Is there some other reason your W is not attracted to you?

Did she cheat on your with someone when you were dating or married, and if so was that person very different from you personality wise or physically. 

Is there someone she maintains contact with from her past, prior relationship remain emotionally powerful for decades in a sense they have the prior claim to your Ws love.

Were the people she dated before you very different from you? 

I will say that from experience in life and on this website it is often the case that the W does like sex, just not sex with you.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> I guess I should have realized that in a forum environment we are really only so much can be explained in a few paragraphs, that people will tend to over simplify.


Well, you're getting answers to your problem. You just don't like them. Because at the root it IS a simple problem. You have a sexual compatibility issue, and you're looking for a solution that, if it exists at all, is very rare. 

So come on an open forum, ask a question, get answers you don't like, and chew out those who took the time to respond. Well played.

I solved my problem, much like yours, like this:

I gave my wife complete control over our sex life. The when, the how, the where, the what. All. Of. It. I gave up my wants on the altar of keeping a never ending fight with no solution that only caused pain, suffering, and frustration on both of our parts. I couldn't make her into what she wasn't, I could only decide to no longer fight nor lose sleep over it. 

There's the only real world advice I can give you. Is it what you wanted?


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

TAMAT said:


> Mylehigh,
> 
> Is there some other reason your W is not attracted to you?
> 
> ...


These are fair questions considering the thin amount of information available here. But I am certain no cheating has ever happened. She is a good girl to a fault. Total rule follower. Goes nuts if anyone even wants to add a home-made rule to a board game! I've wished she would loosen up and be naughty even a little in various aspects of her life. But no way.

Her prior dating life was as a young adolescent, and she had only one other boyfriend who she dumped at the ripe age of 15 because he wanted to "feel her up" as she told me later. Then once she crossed that boundary with me, it grew to more and more and after a few months, it was full on. We dated for 7 years before marrying - beginning in early high school. She has never had sex with anyone else. But once we got started at the ripe old age of 16, she and I had a lot of fun sex before marriage. But she says to this day we started way too young! In the early years she was game for lots of variety. 69 was a thing she liked (now, oral is off the table). Lots of position variety - especially from behind back then. She was a cheerleader and I used to love hiking that little skirt up... sorry, good memories like that are hard to forget but it is part of the story in that she was not inhibited and enjoyed sex a lot. 

Anyway, she developed guilt about how young we were and that we were having sex in her parents house, my parents house, her grandparents house, cars, public places (in sneaky ways), even hidden off in parts of the high school. She was not one to say no, and often times was the initiator back then. She was an equally eager participant. But once parenthood started, she changed quite a lot. She became more and more reserved in many ways, and I think maybe about the time our kids hit the age she was when her parents divorced, anxiety started to manifest itself in obvious ways in her life (which of course also means our life together). 

As she has aged, her GAD has become more and more of a problem for her in many aspects of her life, not the least of which is her self-loathing from a physical perspective. She has been in IC for a few years and has made some episodic progress, but nothing really sticks. 

She is extremely attractive and has a very feminine and sexy body (curvy in all the right places but never looks overweight). She stays fit far more than most if not all women we know in her age group. She has developed a distorted self-view, somewhat akin to what you might see with an eating disorder. What I mean is that she sees herself as "fat" and says so to me and others close in our family, yet nobody sees her this way. Her anxiety and perfectionism are deeply rooted from her broken-home childhood. She often wakes with a whirring feeling in her stomach and quite often ruminates heavily about things she might have said or not have said to others in a social setting. Her self-confidence suffers more and more as she ages. She has tried meds, HRT, meditation, but nothing has significantly alleviated the GAD. I think she has resigned herself to living with it but it hurts us both and I have tried to gently press her to continue to seek help. It's a bit of a touchy subject so I generally steer clear of it.

So the moral of the story is that she began and we sustained our relationship with a healthy appetite for very loving and intimate sex, and sometimes was pretty adventurous. It changed over time, so we now have many more years of sexless marriage than we had of sexy fun. Hidden deep inside her is the capability of really satisfying sex for her and me. And I still see it emerge when things get going between us. But it has just become too much of a struggle to revive it. I feel nearly 100% certain that if she found a way to nip the anxiety, her free self would emerge and we would be so much better as a couple.

So now people here can pile on and tell me how it's my fault she has GAD or that I should just accept it, change my expectations of it ever getting better, or dump her.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> So now people here can pile on and tell me how it's my fault she has GAD or that I should just accept it, change my expectations of it ever getting better, or dump her.


Serious question.

Do you approach this topic as a whiny victim with your wife? If you do, how sexy do you think that looks?


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Cletus said:


> Serious question.
> 
> Do you approach this topic as a whiny victim with your wife? If you do, how sexy do you think that looks?


Serious answer - no. 

I'm not a whiner, I'm not a manipulator, I'm not an appeaser, I'm not an abuser... trying to anticipate any other ways you may want to pin it all on me. Did I cover it?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> Serious answer - no.
> 
> I'm not a whiner, I'm not a manipulator, I'm not an appeaser, I'm not an abuser... trying to anticipate any other ways you may want to pin it all on me. Did I cover it?


All I have to go on is how you present here. I'll have to take you on your word that you are different with her.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mylehigh said:


> So now people here can pile on and tell me how it's my fault she has GAD or that I should just accept it, change my expectations of it ever getting better, or dump her.


In my years of reading and asking for help on TAM, you will get a very mixed bag of comments about any topic. Many people project their own problems towards you as a possible assumption along with some advice. Even while most may not seem helpful and you might want to be defensive, it can be really helpful to consider many different points of view. 

Can things change in your marriage? Generally speaking people do not change, but with enough patience you can start looking at things from a different perspective. That is the key to making progress.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## FoolishOne (Sep 19, 2018)

Moving on to my opinion on the matter.

Have a talk with her about it. Let her know this might just be a deal breaker. Let her know your desires but don't demand anything. Suggest sexual therapy for the both of you. It sounds like you have tried a lot of this.

If that doesn't work... then you have to decide weather you want to spend the rest of your life like this or not.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

FoolishOne said:


> If that doesn't work... then you have to decide weather you want to spend the rest of your life like this or not.


Well, looky here. You're giving him the exact advice everyone else on here has. 



Mylehigh said:


> *we’ve been in MC for about 10 months.* I have made substantial changes on my part but she is showing me that despite verbiage to the contrary,* she has become entrenched in her world where she expects me to pretty much just forget about the whole sex thing and be happy anyway.
> *



Ten months and the needle is stuck on zero. If there had been any movement at all, it would be an encouraging sign. There hasn't and there isn't.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Cletus said:


> Well, you're getting answers to your problem. You just don't like them. Because at the root it IS a simple problem. You have a sexual compatibility issue, and you're looking for a solution that, if it exists at all, is very rare.
> 
> So come on an open forum, ask a question, get answers you don't like, and chew out those who took the time to respond. Well played.
> 
> ...


Thank you for describing your experience. I simply disagree that what you did would in any way be good for me. You chose the path of suppression of your own feelings, needs, wants - and she made you into what she wanted. How is that is a solution to frustration? It ain't real. Deep inside, I would guess you resent it even if not at a conscious level and are not as happy as you could be if she decided to compromise or even flip it around and do what you wanted. 

It does help explain the angles of your responses to me.

What kind of relationship hands over complete control of something as important as intimacy/sex to one partner? Not a very sound one in my opinion.

Serious question - does she wear leather, tie your hands and snap you on your ass with a whip?


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

badsanta said:


> In my years of reading and asking for help on TAM, you will get a very mixed bag of comments about any topic. Many people project their own problems towards you as a possible assumption along with some advice. Even while most may not seem helpful and you might want to be defensive, it can be really helpful to consider many different points of view.
> 
> Can things change in your marriage? Generally speaking people do not change, but with enough patience you can start looking at things from a different perspective. That is the key to making progress.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful response. I'm learning how things go here. Kinda thinking twice about trying this.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

FoolishOne said:


> I understand that this can be a sore subject for some... But give the guy a break.
> He IS right that people are filling in the blanks with their own version of events.
> How is it wrong to desire to recapture the passion that was present earlier in a marriage and relationship? From his words their relationship didn't start out like this. His wife changed along the way.
> The only advice he seems to be getting is "shut the hell up and get on with life" or "divorce."
> ...


Thank you for chiming in. I very much appreciate you calling this culture of projection and blame out. It obviously doesn't mean much coming only from me.

Regarding your opinion/suggestion, about a year ago, I carefully chose what seemed a safe, non-confrontational, non-blaming manner in which to approach the subject that it is a deal-breaker. We had a good heart to heart and haven't had to go through that level of detail on the issue since.

I wasn't willing to walk away without first working on it between us, with online and print materials geared towards self-help, and finally - marriage counseling. I suugested we see a sex therapist but she refuses. I may go see one myself and maybe she will eventually join.

I wasn't about to walk away and not be able to know in my heart that I did everything within reason to save my relationship with the love of my life. Even coming to a forum and letting it all out for public (yet anonymous) viewing and critique. It's been painful to endure but in some ways helpful.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> Well, looky here. You're giving him the exact advice everyone else on here has.
> 
> 
> Ten months and the needle is stuck on zero. If there had been any movement at all, it would be an encouraging sign. There hasn't and there isn't.


Yeah - not encouraging. 

Thanks for your reply.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Have you tried scheduled sex? This sometimes helps with responsive desire and with anxiety. 

If the responsive desire person agrees that they get into sex once it starts then they shouldn't have trouble agreeing to 'every Tuesday we will have sex' or what have you. Then it is your job to make sure that you get the motor running and provide a satisfying experience. It can also help with anxiety because then they know when it is coming and can mentally prepare for it. In addition it takes the pressure off on non-sex days because they don't have to worry about it or sit and feel ohh he's expecting sex.

I am responsive desire and the one thing I'm not sure I get probably because it is her anxiety or something else. I don't dread my husband wanting sex. There are times I'm not turned on and can tell he's going to approach. I might be tired or reading something or playing a phone game. Which at the time I'd rather do since I"m not turned on. But I will put that away because I'm also aware that once it get's going I"ll really enjoy it. It's as if your wife can't look past this minute and see what 10 minutes from now will look like. Or she doesn't orgasm as much as you think. You do know women fake it right?


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

I have a HUGELY high drive and I hardly ever masturbate.

I'm sorry, being devastated your wife doesn't masturbate is ridiculous.

You already said you know she has reactive desire. Are you expecting her hand to be separate from the rest of her and woo her into masturbating?

This is silly.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> Thank you for describing your experience. I simply disagree that what you did would in any way be good for me. You chose the path of suppression of your own feelings, needs, wants - and she made you into what she wanted. How is that is a solution to frustration?


It's a solution to frustration because mine (and maybe yours, maybe not) was rooted in wanting another person to be something she was not, and being resentful that she wasn't. That she was responsible for and obligated to fix my frustration.



> It ain't real. Deep inside, I would guess you resent it even if not at a conscious level and are not as happy as you could be if she decided to compromise or even flip it around and do what you wanted.


It's the most real thing there is because it's based on reality, not fantasy. I do not resent her for it - that has been completely washed away. I do wish it was different, frequently. But my wish isn't her responsibility. I have the choice to stay or leave, not to force her to capitulate to my wishes. I chose to stay and stop demanding. We no longer fight about sex. 

There is a difference between not getting everything you want and having to do things you actively don't want to do. 



> What kind of relationship hands over complete control of something as important as intimacy/sex to one partner?


A 35 year relationship that spent 25 of it in your position. I discovered that my sex life was better when she was comfortable, interested, and not pressured to perform tasks that she found repulsive, made her mildly nauseous, or lacked intimacy. 



> Serious question - does she wear leather, tie your hands and snap you on your ass with a whip?


She is as plain vanilla as the driven snow, PIV only, couldn't find her kink with a flashlight and a funnel kind of girl. So, no.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Mylehigh 

1)People can only offer advice based on the information you provide.

2) The advice you are taking offense to is far from rude. You may not like it but the advice is valid.

Stop trying to start arguments with others over their advice. 

My advice, take this topic up with your marriage counselor. Ask them their professional opinion on techniques you can use to help you with your throughts.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> Have you tried scheduled sex? This sometimes helps with responsive desire and with anxiety.
> 
> If the responsive desire person agrees that they get into sex once it starts then they shouldn't have trouble agreeing to 'every Tuesday we will have sex' or what have you. Then it is your job to make sure that you get the motor running and provide a satisfying experience. It can also help with anxiety because then they know when it is coming and can mentally prepare for it. In addition it takes the pressure off on non-sex days because they don't have to worry about it or sit and feel ohh he's expecting sex.
> 
> I am responsive desire and the one thing I'm not sure I get probably because it is her anxiety or something else. I don't dread my husband wanting sex. There are times I'm not turned on and can tell he's going to approach. I might be tired or reading something or playing a phone game. Which at the time I'd rather do since I"m not turned on. But I will put that away because I'm also aware that once it get's going I"ll really enjoy it. It's as if your wife can't look past this minute and see what 10 minutes from now will look like. Or she doesn't orgasm as much as you think. You do know women fake it right?


Faking it isn't her thing. She tried meds that stopped the Os and dumped the meds. Never once faked it, only complained that it was frustrating that it prevented her from doing it.

And yes - tried the scheduling thing and it kind of worked for a short time. Then it became, "I don't like being on a schedule." So much for that.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Cletus said:


> It's a solution to frustration because mine (and maybe yours, maybe not) was rooted in wanting another person to be something she was not, and being resentful that she wasn't. That she was responsible for and obligated to fix my frustration.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I appreciate your replies. It's an interesting and frustrating conundrum, because it really seems like it's her way or the highway (for me and possibly for you). Middle ground seems like a good place to end up but that doesn't seem like it's in the cards in my case.

You seem good humored by my response about the leather and whip. Cheers!

But apparently the "super moderator" doesn't like my candor and honesty. I've been effectively warned to not rock the boat here in the "live with it or get a divorce" land. Whatevs...


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Mylehigh said:


> But apparently the "super moderator" doesn't like my candor and honesty. I've been effectively warned to not rock the boat here in the "live with it or get a divorce" land. Whatevs...


What I don't like is your inability to keep the snark out of your responses when you don't like the advice given. 

I tried to be nice and give you a warning. You don't seem to like the advice you're given here which makes it seem like all you like to do is argue.

Eta:. I recommend you take my warning for the kindness that it is. Please stop with the snark and the "this forum does this" and "this forum does that". No one is keeping you posting here.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It is difficult to ascertain what it is that you are looking for from the members. It seems you don't like frank assessments of the current state of your marriage or options you have to solve your problem. 

If you are looking for members to tell you that it takes time for a person to have an epiphany so give it another five to fifty years, say so. If you're looking for sympathy, say so. Members don't have any magic words or formulas or time traveling DeLorean in which to whisk your wife back to her carefree cheer leading days. She is who she is now and it is what it is. Good luck to you.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

secretsheriff said:


> I have a HUGELY high drive and I hardly ever masturbate.
> 
> I'm sorry, being devastated your wife doesn't masturbate is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Hardly ever is not the same as never.

And troubled is not equal to devastated.

Who said anything about wooing her into masturbating? I saw it as a reflection of someone that perhaps is becoming asexual. Hence, the troubled feeling.

But maybe that is just me being ridiculous and silly.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> It is difficult to ascertain what it is that you are looking for from the members. It seems you don't like frank assessments of the current state of your marriage or options you have to solve your problem.
> 
> If you are looking for members to tell you that it takes time for a person to have an epiphany so give it another five to fifty years, say so. If you're looking for sympathy, say so. Members don't have any magic words or formulas or time traveling DeLorean in which to whisk your wife back to her carefree cheer leading days. She is who she is now and it is what it is. Good luck to you.


I didn't realize I was supposed to script out the responses of I want. I also thought it would be ok to tell people that they are way off in their assumptions and projections. I've offered a lot of thoughtful clarification in my responses. 

It "seems" you and the super-mod don't like me much because I don't just say ok, thanks for the "advice" when what I am responding to is comments that come from a place that is far from the reality of the situation.

If we go with "she is who she is now and it is what it is" - what's the point of discussion? I'm guessing that in your 8,000 comments on this forum you've offered more than that to others.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mylehigh said:


> I didn't realize I was supposed to script out the responses of I want. I also thought it would be ok to tell people that they are way off in their assumptions and projections. I've offered a lot of thoughtful clarification in my responses.
> 
> It "seems" you and the super-mod don't like me much because I don't just say ok, thanks for the "advice" when what I am responding to is comments that come from a place that is far from the reality of the situation.
> 
> If we go with "she is who she is now and it is what it is" - what's the point of discussion? I'm guessing that in your 8,000 comments on this forum you've offered more than that to others.


It's not that you don't say "thanks for the advice". It's that your posts are arguing with everyone. If someone is making a wrong assumption, there is a way to say it that does not sound confrontational. For example just give more info. When people take their time to post here to help others, they are doing the best they can at the time with the information that has been posted. If you don't like a particular post, just ignore it. Everyone posting to you is giving up their own time in an attempt to help.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Mylehigh your thread has been reopened.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

My ex-wife was a 25 year old virgin when we met. In all of our 20 plus years together, she never took care of herself. She never had any romantic fantasies, and sex was always vanilla. I tried so hard to change the dynamics thinking I was doing something wrong or maybe there was something I had to improve to get her to desire me. We probably had sex 2X a month. sometimes 3X. Towards the end of our marriage, I became somewhat aggressive and had sex 3X a week for a couple of months and she complied. It was the most horrific experience of our marriage. I wish I was able to have a do-over.

We didn't have a perfect marriage, but the lack of sex and intimacy seemed to amplify all the little stuff to the point I was angry most of the time and it effected my career/business, all because of sex and intimacy. Looking back, I was a total a-hole.

We've been officially divorced for about a year and a half. Believe or not, we get along better that ever before living in separate homes with 50/50 custody. She doesn't even have any issues with my gf spending time with our daughter.

I am not saying divorce is the answer. Maybe you're doing everything right. I just want you to ask yourself if sex and her sexual desire (or non sexual desires) is more important than the friendship you have with your wife. Some people may not be wired that way. it's nobody's fault. I regret that I lost my best friend over sex. Something to think about.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Thanks for your reply - certainly a very meaningful message.

I can only assume that it was ‘horrific’ because she was somehow feeling used or compromised rather than closer to you.

I’ve been through phases of feeling as you describe, where sometimes I’d feel angry over little things but I really think our MC has helped in that regard. I’m not harboring anger, mostly sadness of knowing what we are missing out in because of the general lack of sexual intimacy. It’s not absent, just ebbs more than it flows. But the ebbs sure do bring us to a happier place when they occur. I see it in her because she seems few from her anxiety and laughs more easily, makes decisions more confidently, and just has an overall higher zest in her days when we are clicking like that. It just my observations or projections, she tells me this. 

Which makes it hard to see her the other way and us the other way.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Looks like you are screwed and I don't mean literally... At least you can still have sex so you might well make friends with the bottle of lube and suffer through.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Mylehigh said:


> Geez, another bug batch of assumptions… Holy crap people. You have no idea how much I have concentrated on having a great time with her. She loves to travel and explore other countries and we have been around the world together over this past several years. I ask her out on dates and do many things spontaneously for her. Not for sex, for her. I ask her to go on walks with me, to sit and talk with me. I am very in tune with what is important to her in life and I facilitate making those things happen on a regular basis. I have done that throughout our marriage.
> 
> To suggest that we stop talking about the problem is not only based on false assumptions by you that we talk about it every day or even frequently, but it sounds like lousy advice to suggest a couple not communicate about problems. But to each their own.


So, if you have done all this, and MC is doing NOTHING for your wife, I'm not sure if there is anything YOU can to do solve this. SHE is happy -- you are taking care of her, taking her out, taking her on vacations. She doesn't seem to care if YOU are happy, at least with intimacy. She MAY feel that she is entitled to all that (that you take care of her) without having to worry that she isn't holding up her side.
Have you tried a sex therapist? Would she go for that?


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> So, if you have done all this, and MC is doing NOTHING for your wife, I'm not sure if there is anything YOU can to do solve this. SHE is happy -- you are taking care of her, taking her out, taking her on vacations. She doesn't seem to care if YOU are happy, at least with intimacy. She MAY feel that she is entitled to all that (that you take care of her) without having to worry that she isn't holding up her side.
> Have you tried a sex therapist? Would she go for that?


I can't say that MC has done nothing but it hasn't yet put us in a happy balance.

I've suggested sex therapy but it's a "no" from her on that. She's quite uncomfortable with that idea - go figure!


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Some of the replies on here I completely disagree with but that's the beauty of opinions and everyone is entitled to them.

To the OP you could actually be describing my wife.

Asking a man or woman to simply put up with not having enough sex is not acceptable. So you're quite within in your rights to try and improve the situation. If it doesn't work then you have two options - get your sex elsewhere or leave her.

I've been down the road of getting sex elsewhere and it came crashing down on me. So be warned if you take that route. However I also understand that to leave someone you love because of a lack of sex is also difficult to do.

In my personal opinion if your partner wants to improve things in the bedroom, isn't satisfied etc but you are and continue on as normal without any middle ground then you're a very selfish person.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

A few thoughts/questions:

1) keep track of frequency and quality (probably important to avoid ever telling her); any degradation will feel like a new normal to her, and you will be even less likely to turn it around; never give up and give her control until you are willing to see and accept what then happens; if you’re struggling to detach and move on, then leaving your sex-life and affection completely up to her may be eye opening, in a way that makes it clear how unimportant your needs and wants are to her

2) how old are you two; how long have you been struggling with this; how long has she known

3) your situation sounds very familiar to me, except I have given up, and am pushing our marriage to the edge as we inch closer to being empty nesters; we are both happier as a result — the elephant in the room is dead; she may not notice the smell, but I do, and I know that making it out the door is one doable option for me with timing of my choosing

4) your wife sounds almost as un-sexual as mine; it’s very near zero chance my wife will change; her zero/near-zero interest in sex became problematic 20 years ago, after birth of our first; anxiety, depression, alcohol abuse, anti-depressants, uterine-ablation in early 40s, vaginal tearing in childbirth — all things that have been inhibiting factors for her; surely I’ve not reacted well at times, and have had my own “unattractive” liabilities related to a bout of depression and OCD, and weight gain

5) it’s a fact the deck is stacked against you; stay silent, her ability to evade what this means to you grows insurmountable; ask for help changing it, let her know it is a significant burden on you, she may involuntarily be less attracted to you and burdened by guilt and more anxiety

6) the couple of cases with an LD wife like this I’ve heard turn around, are ones where the wife found enough empathy and compassion for her husband, that she CHOSE to change her behavior; why your wife or my wife has yet to make that choice, I can only wonder if the success cases did not have complicating factors such as anxiety

7) keep a diary, and occasionally update status privately there; part of the process for me, over two decades, has been to lose track of some of what I have been, and been through

8) see if she would consider trying marijuana; a couple of anecdotes here suggest it can change the experience

9) has she had her hormones checked?; seen a physician at all about this?; does she take antidepressants or anything for her anxiety, etc

10) if it turns out she doesn’t change, and her desire in fact decreases over time, and if you see only temporary incremental improvements followed by deeper regressions — will you be, on the net, better off for having stayed?


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## Lake life (Nov 18, 2019)

OP, if you don’t have kids together, my advice is get a divorce and move on.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Cletus said:


> I'll keep this as short as possible. You cannot make your wife into what you want her to be.
> 
> The burden of change is yours to bear. Learn to accept her responsive desire, or don't. There is no other solution.


The long and short of it is most women do not feel the same way about sex as men do. Part of that is guys having 75x the amount of testosterone a healthy woman has. Women tend to seek the familial love vs erotic in relationships. 

The real issue here is erotic love is sought and familial love is given in return. Not most guys love languages. It’s almost as if some women revert back to the tween years and are like “eeewww boys are gross.” Let’s be honest.... there is little joy in anything that is seen by one partner as obligatory like sexual desire. Let’s also be honest that some women look at sex like going out to eat. Tastes great, filling but you don’t need to go out to eat or even think about much really. It’s cool when it happens. She’s not gonna say no but she could take it or leave it.

In my lifetime, any long-term relationship has always defaulted to transactional or attention seeking versus “this is how I feel about you” sexually which is what most men want. Once you’re committed you get lots of “well I knew you needed it”, “it’s your birthday”, “I’m horny, wanna have sex?”, “ready to make a baby?”, “sure I guess”, post-major purchase sex, “well he went down on me so now I have too.” And likely you have the “why we’re you slutty with other guys” discussion answered with “I was always like this.”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

My vote is that you should absolutely quit pressuring and harassing her for sex. She already knows so nothing new will be gained. Keep at it- you’ll push her away.

Try to focus instead on being a better man. Use whatever frustration you have in pursuing other interests sometimes. Find some hobbies that you can enjoy so you’re not stuck indoors with nothing but sex on your mind lol. Find some activities that will keep your hormones under control.

Find out what works for her. Maybe she would love a quickie just to end your suffering and she could feel good to be taking care of her man. My wife tells me “just come and get me”. Sometimes these quickies turn into something amazing- but not always. I’ve learned my wife is always available in the shower (despite that shower sex was always awkward to me). Well, it works!

In sum, I survived the difficult, limited sex years of marriage/babies/cancer.... glad I did because my wife is so gorgeous, so feminine, so lovely... and just a fantastic companion- despite that she’s not a sex maniac like I am. My wife is the classic good girl that never wants to talk about sex, I’m sure she’s never masturbated... but you know, she’s almost never refused me anything once properly “warmed”.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Mylehigh said:


> I've posted on here in detail about my high desire vs. my wife's low desire. Suffice it to say - in spite of on-going counseling and countless private discussions between us about it over a period of decades, the overall pattern stays the same. We end up on her schedule, which is really mostly just when she thinks I need it so bad she probably ought to deliver..
> 
> Recently, we were having a conversation that made it easy for me to casually ask her, do you ever masturbate? She said nope. I said, you mean like never ever? And she said not never ever, but it has been many (many) years. I told her that I do "now and then" just to stay freaking sane during our dry spells and to make it easier to not focus on it so much, and I also told her I fantasize about her and whatever recent sex we had that was really good. When we have really satisfying sex, it lingers with me for a while and sometimes I replay parts of it in my mind during a little private time. I told her that should be considered a compliment, and she said it was. Then I said, so conversely, I feel very "un-complimented" knowing she never does the same.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you already know your 2 options, stay and everyrhing stays just like it is...or leave.
Not much else to say.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

PS
I just read where you quoted her saying that is all the intimacy SHE needs.
That sounds selfish....knowing your mate has longing needs but you neglect them because your needs are good.
Marriage is about meeting each other's needs.
Even scripure tells us not to deprive ourselves from one another.
We are only getting your side of this but you paint her to be selfish and not a good spouse in this area.

You describe a bait and switch...she is sexual, enjoys it, 69 oral, initiates.....then just switches, no more oral, doesn't initiate doesnt want or need it ever.
Have a bottom line, end it all talk, all cards on the table.
Lay out to her you were this way with me for x amounts of years and then pulled sex off the table...oral off the table...etc.
Get her to answer if this is permanent or does she intend to go back as it was?
If she says permanent...divorce if you do not accept the switch she has imposed on you....or get a side girlfriend.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Trickster said:


> My ex-wife was a 25 year old virgin when we met. In all of our 20 plus years together, she never took care of herself. She never had any romantic fantasies, and sex was always vanilla. I tried so hard to change the dynamics thinking I was doing something wrong or maybe there was something I had to improve to get her to desire me. We probably had sex 2X a month. sometimes 3X. Towards the end of our marriage, I became somewhat aggressive and had sex 3X a week for a couple of months and she complied. It was the most horrific experience of our marriage. I wish I was able to have a do-over.
> 
> We didn't have a perfect marriage, but the lack of sex and intimacy seemed to amplify all the little stuff to the point I was angry most of the time and it effected my career/business, all because of sex and intimacy. Looking back, I was a total a-hole.
> 
> ...


I would agree except that he said she was very sexual for years with him and has stopped.
Maybe something traumatic happened.
She wasnt like that from the beginning.
This is a change...a switch.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I met my wife at 13. We have been together since the age of 17. It stands to say I know her pretty well. I’m fairly certain she has never played with herself despite my long periods away from home and a drawer full of sex toys. I also doubt she has any fantasies that she holds dearly in her mind. My wife like most is responsive desire but in her case I guess you could say she is “really responsive” both mentally and physically. The lack of self play or fantasy from your wife is in no way an accurate barometer of her sexuality. 
However: A woman that feels under pressure like every performance is graded and judged will never fell safe in her sexuality. A woman that doesn’t feel safe is a woman that doesn’t look forward to sex.
You and the therapist are both judges.
She feels like she is under a microscope. No fun in that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Zombie thread.


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