# Sex:Take It Or Leave It



## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Hi Everyone,

My wife and I have been together for nearly twenty years and married for about twelve of those years. We have to kids together elementary school aged. She is the most wonderful person I've ever known. But our sex life has always been a problem. I am the one that has to do the initiating and during sex I'm the one that has to do everything. Only two positions are pretty much allowed and there's never any enthusiasm on her part. I've always wanted her to try a more dominant role but it just doesn't happen. I have asked her before if Sex is something where she could just take it or leave it. She would reply Yes. And I would say 'but, ..preferably leave it?" And she would nod her head. We are in marriage counseling now but I'm getting very discouraged. Why would I continually try to get a person to do something they aren't interested in? Just makes me feel pathetic. She's always told me she never desires it, fantasizes about it, etc. During our counseling session the other day, the therapist asked her Why she agreed to have sex with me that first time years ago. Affection toward him or Obligation. To which she replied 'Obligation'. We are 'working on things' now, going to counseling and stuff. But I just can't get past her attitude toward it. 'Preferably Leave It'. 

Being married to someone that doesn't desire you ( or maybe sex in general ) is just debilitating. I just don't see how this will work. Anyone else in my shoes, and is able to look past this? Seems impossible.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

LostinNE said:


> Why would I continually try to get a person to do something they aren't interested in? Just makes me feel pathetic.


This is the correct question to ask. Answer...don't.

Are you two in counseling for this issue in particular or is there other aspects of your marriage that aren't up to snuff?


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

How often do you have sex? Does she climax?


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

"How often do you have sex? Does she climax? "

We have sex generally about 1-12 times a year. Some months ago I was feeling super depressed about never being pursued in that way so I did my best to not initiate etc. Well, I had a good run. But I waited 7-8 MONTHS. And it was me that caved. Unreal. 

I asked her last week if we could try the twice / week thing again as it is something we tried in the past. Yesterday was 'the day' so we started to but she climaxed when I gave her oral. I didn't know at the time so we proceeded to intercourse but she just laid there with her eyes closed and head to the side. I thought something was wrong so I didn't continue. Just stopped. I feel like she never actively 'participates' in sex. And when this happens she never wants to 'help me' afterwards. Which is crazy to me. 

"Are you two in counseling for this issue in particular or is there other aspects of your marriage that aren't up to snuff?"

There many issues of course. But the one thing that has lasted our entire relationship, is this issue.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I looked past it - to divorce. And that worked great!


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Not sure what advice your counselor is giving you, but maybe look into going to a licensed sex therapist. If you want to make your marriage work, you need to uncover the real reason behind her lack of desire. Be ready to accept difficult truths. It could be you, which is actually the best news you could get, because that's where you have the most control. Or it could be her normal drive--in which case you'd have a hard decision to make.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
See the many HD /LD (high desire, low desire) threads for a lot of people's experience of many forms of this issue.

It will be very difficult to be happily married if you can't fix this.

Do you have any idea if she doesn't desire sex, or doesn't desire sex with YOU? I"m not blaming or anything, and from your description it seems she is very low drive in general, but is she attracted to anyone else (even in fantasy)?

Does she think sex is not important, or does she just not enjoy it?


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Sorry, but they never change. Could be a variety of reasons why she is this way. You accepted it from day one so kind of hard to ask her to change now.

If this is unacceptable to you, then you should divorce.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

When you have to beg for sex and when you get it and she lays there like a zombie just waiting for you to finish, then you may as well hire a hooker. 

If it's me, I let her know that if she can't act like a wife then there's no sense in her having a husband and file for divorce. It might shake her up and give her a change of heart but honestly I think it will go back to the same old same old. This is her life and you can't force her to like having sex so rather then begging just be done with it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

LostinNE said:


> "How often do you have sex? Does she climax? "
> 
> We have sex generally about 1-12 times a year. Some months ago I was feeling super depressed about never being pursued in that way so I did my best to not initiate etc. Well, I had a good run. But I waited 7-8 MONTHS. And it was me that caved. Unreal.
> 
> ...


So let me get this straight. She had HER orgasm and then mentally and physically checked out leaving you to have at it with a dead fish? Your wife is unbelievably selfish! Down right stupid @anonmd f she thinks it's okay for her to get her orgasm and then leave you hanging! 

This is totally unacceptable! And it will not likely ever change.

Most people here, especially those who have been here a while, will tell you this will not ever get better. It might improve for a bit but within a short time it will go right back.

You can't therapy away selfishness. You can educate the stupid but you can't instill empathy.

Sorry. Your best bet is to part on as friendly terms as you possibly can.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I think more background information is required on your part before any of us can start giving proper advice.

Important information such as:

- how old were you two when you got together?
- was she sexually active prior to you?
- strong religious upbringing?
- to the best of your knowledge, does she masturbate (even occasionally)?
- does she appear to show interest in other men (ie. celebrities, chippendales dancers, firefighters; did she read 50 Shades, or go to see Magic Mike with her girlfriends, that sort of thing)
- does she, or has she ever, communicated to you during sex, or even just about sex in general? ie. what she likes, or wants you to do, or NOT do, etc.

As of right now, as per your description, it could be any number of things, ranging from extremely low sex drive or even asexuality, no attraction to you, sexual repression, no communication by her, or you not listening to her. This may be as simple as she has no idea what she's doing or even what YOU like, never mind her. We have no idea, other than what little you've said, which is very broad ranging.

I understand your dilemma and need for answers, but I truly wish people would start off with as much pertinent information as possible right from the start, as opposed to "we have sex 6 times a year, what gives??"

More details, please.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You should not ask that question and not allow your therapist to ask the question she did.

Your wife has a bad marital attitude towards sex at the moment, and therefore is going to say many things to attempt to kill your desire to have sex with her.

Ultimately your wife is who she is, and will not regard sex in the same way you do. Just like you will not regard home decorating with the same passion she does.

But you have to take her on a journey where you motivate her to be a great wife, and teach her what words and actions are required that will allow her to attain your praises.

So, how do you motivate her to be a great wife? Step 1, provide her with marital fulfillment.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

LostinNE said:


> I just don't see how this will work. Anyone else in my shoes, and is able to look past this?



The answer is simple my friend, 

The next time your wife is unloading that new five shelf book case that weighs 120 pounds that a clerk from Target helped her get into her car. You will need to read her mind, come home from work and help her unload it. Somehow or another she unloaded it all by herself, but not without scraping her leg and putting a huge scratch down the side of the book shelf. 

Every time she goes to get a book, she resents the fact that you were not home to help her, and she has not been able to wear her favorite shorts this season because of that darned ol scratch on her leg left a mark. 

Seriously, women get upset about stuff like this and us guys have NO FREAKING CLUE it even happened! Next time, be home to help, she will appreciate you, and sex will drastically improve until something else happens without you even knowing about it. 

Good luck, 
Badsanta


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

LostinNE said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> My wife and I have been together for nearly twenty years and married for about twelve of those years. We have to kids together elementary school aged. She is the most wonderful person I've ever known. But our sex life has always been a problem. I am the one that has to do the initiating and during sex I'm the one that has to do everything. Only two positions are pretty much allowed and there's never any enthusiasm on her part. I've always wanted her to try a more dominant role but it just doesn't happen. I have asked her before if Sex is something where she could just take it or leave it. She would reply Yes. And I would say 'but, ..preferably leave it?" And she would nod her head. We are in marriage counseling now but I'm getting very discouraged. Why would I continually try to get a person to do something they aren't interested in? Just makes me feel pathetic. She's always told me she never desires it, fantasizes about it, etc. During our counseling session the other day, the therapist asked her Why she agreed to have sex with me that first time years ago. Affection toward him or Obligation. To which she replied 'Obligation'. We are 'working on things' now, going to counseling and stuff. But I just can't get past her attitude toward it. 'Preferably Leave It'.
> 
> Being married to someone that doesn't desire you ( or maybe sex in general ) is just debilitating. I just don't see how this will work. Anyone else in my shoes, and is able to look past this? Seems impossible.


This is subjective. For me yes this would be impossible to get past, or look over and I would file for divorce. But this is about you and the value you place on sex. Can YOU look past this and let it go. If the answer is no then you aren't compatible and you need to leave, cause this won't get better. If yes then you would need to stop brining it up to her so it doesn't drag down the other parts of your marriage.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Stop wasting money on counseling.
File for divorce and have her served do not tell her ahead of time you may shock her out of this but I wouldn't hold your breath.
Sorry you are here.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

Ask her for an unlimited duration hall pass so you can get serviced elsewhere.

If she agrees, you know she has no interest in your marriage and you can file for divorce and move on.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Stop wasting money on counseling.
> File for divorce and have her served do not tell her ahead of time you may shock her out of this but I wouldn't hold your breath.
> Sorry you are here.


While that would feel really good to stick it to her, it would create a very acrimonious divorce. 

They are incompatible at the core and incompatible with regard to empathy. His best bet is to assure her they make excellent friends and co parents but they are simply too different to make a happy marriage to each other.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

LostinNE said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> My wife and I have been together for nearly twenty years and married for about twelve of those years. We have to kids together elementary school aged. She is the most wonderful person I've ever known. But our sex life has always been a problem. I am the one that has to do the initiating and during sex I'm the one that has to do everything. Only two positions are pretty much allowed and there's never any enthusiasm on her part. I've always wanted her to try a more dominant role but it just doesn't happen. I have asked her before if Sex is something where she could just take it or leave it. She would reply Yes. And I would say 'but, ..preferably leave it?" And she would nod her head. We are in marriage counseling now but I'm getting very discouraged. Why would I continually try to get a person to do something they aren't interested in? Just makes me feel pathetic. She's always told me she never desires it, fantasizes about it, etc. During our counseling session the other day, the therapist asked her Why she agreed to have sex with me that first time years ago. Affection toward him or Obligation. To which she replied 'Obligation'. We are 'working on things' now, going to counseling and stuff. But I just can't get past her attitude toward it. 'Preferably Leave It'.
> 
> Being married to someone that doesn't desire you ( or maybe sex in general ) is just debilitating. I just don't see how this will work. Anyone else in my shoes, and is able to look past this? Seems impossible.


I know I cannot expect everyone to have the same results as me, but at least I can tell you my story to let you know that it is possible.
I have been married 24 years. Same issue with sex. Was never really great from the start. Wife said she was not that interested in sex. She would go forever (seemed to me) if I did not initiate. Said she had absolutely no fantasies, did not masturbate, faked orgasms to get me to finish, starfish, etc. 
2 or so years into my research, study and application we are having the best sex of our lives averaging twice a week.

If I had to condense everything to a couple bullet points I would say this.
1. Be the best version of you that you can be. I'm not talking about catering to your wife, I'm talking about being a healthy, vibrant man with a plan.
2. Ultimatum. You have to say "honey, this is NOT going to work. Either we work together to have great sex or I am gone." You have to mean this when you say it.

Having said this, there are those that will tell you change is near impossible. Maybe so. However, I am indeed one that has seen MAJOR change. 
It is a two way street. Both you and your wife have to work together to achieve the goal. If she is not willing to work at it with the same vigor as yourself, it's simply not going to get better.


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## depressedandexhausted (Aug 24, 2015)

I feel for you on this. You have to do something to make yourself happy.

My soon to be ex wife was like this. I would spend the first 20 minutes making sure she would finish before me. Most of the time, she would not be involved, after a few minutes she didnt have much choice. Still is was a pain. Lack of excitement and felt like a chore. All she would do is lay there with her eyes closed and fists clenched. We tried to see a counselor, tried sex therapist. In the end I had to accept she would never be into it. I also found out a few things that I never knew. Abused and taken advantage of and a rape when she was 14.

Despite feeling bad, I got tired of initiating and resulting to more self releasing measures. I hate to say it man, but your in a bind. If you love this woman and want to stay with her, you need to accept it. Get toys or means to gratify you (do not have an affair). Find a fettish lol. 

If you cant accept it and it is too demoralizing to your self esteem or you just want more, be honest with her. Tell her you didnt want this and your going to move on. There is not much else you can do.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Until you are willing to take away her comfort with your discomfort, nothing will change.

Are you willing to do that?


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

thanks for all of your replies everyone. I appreciate them all. Gonna try to address some of your comments. Writing on my phone right now and Im new here so I'm sorry I dont 'quote' which would make it easier. Sorry. 

My wife had no history of sexual abuse. She does not watch porn I don't think, ever. Doesn't fantasize or think much about sex. She hates talking about sex and gets super uncomfortable about it. We were 16 and 17 during our first time. No sexual relationships before me. 

Hicks - u mentioned to not let her or our therapist ask that question. What do you mean ??

Sorry for the less than detailed reply. I will write better once I get to my computer. 

Thanks everyone.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

You agreed to monogamy. You did not agree to celibacy.

An intimate, fulfilling sexual relationship goes hand-in-hand with monogamy. You can't have one without the other and expect a marriage to last.

Have her read this:

https://missionhusband.wordpress.co...gs-your-high-drive-spouse-may-never-tell-you/


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> You can't therapy away selfishness. You can educate the stupid but you can't instill empathy..



Couldn't have said it myself down to the terminology... Selfish - evil...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

LostinNE said:


> I have asked her before if Sex is something where she could just take it or leave it. She would reply Yes. And I would say 'but, ..preferably leave it?" And she would nod her head. .


In this example you are leading your wife into defining herself as non sexual. Why would you do that if you want a sexual marriage?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

LostinNE said:


> During our counseling session the other day, the therapist asked her Why she agreed to have sex with me that first time years ago. Affection toward him or Obligation. To which she replied 'Obligation'.


In this example your therapist led her into verbalizing a marriage harming point of view, and imprinting a marriage harming point of view into her consciousness. 

Here's a marriage-helping question that you or your therapist should ask your wife: "Do you think marital relationships should be sexual ?" What kind of thoughts and ideas would that question get turning in her mind, instead of what was asked.


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## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

"- to the best of your knowledge, does she masturbate (even occasionally)?"

My wife can be very "take it or leave it" at times (years ago she was very high drive but it has all changed). there are a couple days a month that she actually wants it. She is kinda trying to work on this but we are also dealing with thyroid issues and depression. She told me that a couple days last month she wanted me during the day and MB'd, but then by that night the urge was gone. So her thought was that masturbating was making the problem worse. I think her problem was that she got tired and wouldn't have wanted sex after the sun went down regardless.

So my question is, as I'm trying to help her drive return - should I encourage her to MB whenever the urge hits, to nurture that urge and hopefully grow it into more of a self-sustaining drive?


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

I see what you're saying Hicks. 

We just got back from marriage counseling just now. Didn't go so well IMO. Talked about it during session and a conversation in the car about perhaps what it is about Sex other than Missionary that makes her extremely uncomfortable. But the only answer is just 'I don't know'. In the car we were talking about it a bit and it just seems like that's just the way she is. Like if I asked a gay man, 'What makes you uncomfortable about having sex with a woman.' I assume the response would just continuously be , 'Ummm. Idk, that's just the way I am. '

She was getting angry and asking me, 'What's so damn important about Me initiating or Why can't we just have sex the way it is?! ' I replied, and have always replied with, 'Because it would make me feel like you are enthusiastic about our sexuality, and I NEED this '. She would say , ' IT'S JUST NOT ME ! ' etc

I had brought up during the session that she wasn't interested really in helping me 'finish'. The Therapist was trying to explore that a little about what makes her comfortable and such. She's not at all comfortable with Felatio. He asked her well what about using your hands. Nope. Then asked her are comfortable with 'stimulating him in general'. Reply was again No. And she doesn't know why. I was crying in the parking lot. To hear that is a hard pill to swallow.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LostinNE said:


> I see what you're saying Hicks.
> 
> We just got back from marriage counseling just now. Didn't go so well IMO. Talked about it during session and a conversation in the car about perhaps what it is about Sex other than Missionary that makes her extremely uncomfortable. But the only answer is just 'I don't know'. In the car we were talking about it a bit and it just seems like that's just the way she is. Like if I asked a gay man, 'What makes you uncomfortable about having sex with a woman.' I assume the response would just continuously be , 'Ummm. Idk, that's just the way I am. '
> 
> ...


Next time she needs a listening ear:

"Sorry, but listening to things of which I have little interest is just not me."

Should you literally do that? No. But I have used this reasoning to illustrate to my wife when she is lacking empathy.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

LostinNE said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> My wife and I have been together for nearly twenty years and married for about twelve of those years. We have to kids together elementary school aged. She is the most wonderful person I've ever known. But our sex life has always been a problem.
> 
> ...





LostinNE said:


> "How often do you have sex? Does she climax? "
> 
> We have sex generally about 1-12 times a year. Some months ago I was feeling super depressed about never being pursued in that way so I did my best to not initiate etc. Well, I had a good run. But I waited 7-8 MONTHS. And it was me that caved. Unreal.
> 
> ...


I was in a sex starved marriage. I would like to suggest that you get three books and read them very carefully. MW Davis, The Sex Starved Marriage; Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy; and Chapman's the 5 Languages of Love.

What Davis advised is for you to back off some of your pressure pursuit, especially if you have a counselor involved (more on that latter) Also you need to try different 180's until you find one that works in changing the dynamic between you and your wife in positive manner. You did a 180, but it didnt' work, so you need to try different ones. Your life and marriage are now a huge trial and error experiment to figure out what will work and what won't to make it better.

Another thing that Davis is big on is Getting a Life, that means taking charge of yourself, doing things that make you happy about yourself and doing things that make you a more interesting spouse.

Glover also advises getting a life, exercising and working on bettering yourself so you are a more integrated and fascinating man.

Chapman tells you how you many have been telling your wife you loved her, and she telling you she loved you, but in ways or languages that neither of your would understand as statements of love.

Seriously get a life and put joy back into your life. If you have elementary school kids, I would advise you to take up an execise program that you can do with your kids. Things like bicycling, running/jogging, swimming, hiking are things that you and your kids can do that will allow you to get exercise, be with them and feel good about you and your kids. When I got involved with my kids athletics, lost weight, and got in better shape, my wife notices, but so did a lot of the single moms. I didn't cheat, but my wife noted that there were women checking me out. Competition is a good thing as well as getting closer to your kids.

Now as to counseling. You need to talk to your counselor with your wife present and ask them about how they view their role as well as your role and that of your wife in the sessions. My wife refused to do any exercises assigned and when I tried to get her to do them she used it as a way of starting a fight. The Therapist we saw, said that my wife is responsible for doing her assignments and will have to admit during sessions that she doesn't care enough about our marriage to do the homework. She told me that I was not to try to be my wife's parent and make her do her homework.

Another thing, since sex is a big part of the problem, you need a sex therapist not a regular counselor. There is a difference. Ask your counselor how they are going to address the sex therapy needs in your relationship healing process or if they will make a referral to someone who can cover that part of what needs to be done. 

Finally, one of the things that our sex therapist did that was very helpful was to ask us what we thought about the future. Where did we think we would be in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years? Would we likely be married or divorced by then. What is our image of a "good marriage" when two people are age 65, 75, 80? Are they in love with each other, do they have regular sex, to they hate each other waiting for one to die? Do they travel together? Figuring out these things and then visualizing the future together, if it is together and positive is very helpful.

Good luck. Been there done that. The best advice is to understand that no matter how much of a victim you feel you are, you are also part of the problem and can be a big part of the solution. You need to work on fixing yourself (hence the three books) then you need on making your spouse feel loved and doing enough 180's so that they have to treat you differently and hopefully better.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> She was getting angry and asking me, 'What's so damn important about Me initiating or Why can't we just have sex the way it is?! ' I replied, and have always replied with, 'Because it would make me feel like you are enthusiastic about our sexuality, and I NEED this '. She would say , ' IT'S JUST NOT ME ! ' etc


Well that triggers my PTSD.

She's telling the truth, too. Your path to ending your suffering ends when you learn to accept it.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Who's idea was it to go to counseling? If it was your idea, did she seem receptive to it or is she dragging her feet?

I get the feeling she's really not wanting to do the hard work here.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> Who's idea was it to go to counseling? If it was your idea, did she seem receptive to it or is she dragging her feet?
> 
> I get the feeling she's really not wanting to do the hard work here.


Which is understandable. He's basically asking the spousal equivalent of "Pray the Frigid Away" - a fundamental and unnatural (to his wife) change in her innate sexuality.

It's not just a little hard work. It's monumentally hard work.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Exactly!

And that's what I need to know. Is this a 'I'm not very confident in doing that, I wouldn't know where to begin' issue?

Or is this a 'This is ME' issue ?

Both things have been repeatedly said. So I get mixed messages. 

If my wife asked me to have a threesome with another man cause it's a huge fantasy for her, I'd be super apprehensive about it. Idk how to even go about that. I'd have hangups about it. I'd probably need a lot of reassurance that 'Im still the Man'. It would take time for me to be comfortable with that. 

But if my wife said it's her biggest fantasy for me to have sex with other men as she watched. That's not am 'Im not confident and wouldnt know where to begin' issue. That is just not me. And wouldn't give mixed messages about it. 


Thank u so much Everyone for your replies. You're all being very helpful.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> Exactly!
> 
> And that's what I need to know. Is this a 'I'm not very confident in doing that, I wouldn't know where to begin' issue?
> 
> Or is this a 'This is ME' issue ?


From my sample size of 1, it's very much the latter. 

You're where I was 5 or 10 years ago. I am no longer in that place because I realized the futility of what I was asking. It got a lot easier once I got past that hurdle.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Cletus. What'd you do to get past that hurdle ?? Divorce? Just settle for the way it is ? Etc


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> Cletus. What'd you do to get past that hurdle ?? Divorce? Just settle for the way it is ? Etc


Just settle for the way it is and take small victories when you can get them. 

But in order to be successful, you have to truly believe that your spouse is not doing anything to hurt you. She is as much herself with her own sexuality as you are with yours, and if you're going to have a peaceful marriage, the burden of change lies no more on her shoulders than it does on yours.

Neither of you is wrong. The problem is that you're married to each other. The problem is a systemic one, and you have as much ability to make it better, or at least less bad, as does your wife. Just like you both have a right to declare it unworkable. What you don't have a right to do is demand that she meet your definition of sexuality. 

The great irony that I found was that once I fully accepted this, I both lost a lot of interest in my wife sexually and dropped all pressure on her to perform at any level. She noticed. She didn't like this, and has put more effort in the last year (we've been married almost 30 now) than she has for a long time. Which doesn't mean sex swings, nipple clamps, and pegging, but more attention to being available for what is in her comfort zone, even seeking it out more than ever before. I for my part take what is offered without complaint.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You and your therapist have a wrongheaded need for her to dig into herself and understand herself. That's what therapists do, they dig into the persons deep feelings.. I think that's wrong when dealing with non sexual wives (my opinion).

You should read the books that have been suggested.

This is not about sex. Right now your wife thinks she is a sex doll and you want to masturbate in her.

You need to greatly elevate this conversation to be about MARRIAGE. What is a marriage to you and what is a marriage to your wife. To me the conversation has to be about Needs in marriage, and it has to be about balance between each of you meeting needs and each of you getting needs met. The topics in counseling should be:

1. Her emotional needs. What are they? What would it look like if you were meeting her needs? 
2. Your emotional needs. You have to remarket your conversation to say that within your marriage your emotional need is Sexual Fulfillment. That you see a sexually fulfilling relationship as a key part of marriage an it is what makes marriage different from any other relationship you or she will ever have.
3. Give and take. Do you both mutually define your marriage to be that each of you has to meet the other's emotional needs on purpose and with a good positive attitude.. Meet them in such a way that the "receiver" of the need agrees that they are being met and the end result is that he or she will feel loved, fulfilled and happy.

Example for #3, her emotional need could be that you walk the dog every night. This means you don't complain about walking the dog. You do things that are important to her because they are important to her... This models how you want her to behave in the sexual realm.

My other advise is stop talking about sex, stop trying for sex, stop pressuring her, stop talking alot, and start figuring out how to meet her needs... That gives you a base to work from.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Was actually commenting on another thread about that. 

Instead of telling what I want and such, I kind of made it a point to share that this is something that I NEED. Which of course stressed her out and made her angry on that long ride back from counseling. 

Usually I tell her what I want ( sexually etc ) , those wants never get fulfilled and it blows over. 

Was thinking about that I had said to her that it's actually something that I NEED in this marriage. So, later on in the day I was thinking about things that she always wants me to do, that I don't do, and then it blows over. So I made it a point to suggest that she think about it for a few days and really come up with a list or whatever of things that she truly NEEDS from me as her husband because it's important to me that those needs are definitely met. So were talking about making these lists and sharing. I think it would be good to have everything on the table, so that we can realistically meet our partners needs. Or we can not meet those needs. Either way, it would be enlightening.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> Who's idea was it to go to counseling? If it was your idea, did she seem receptive to it or is she dragging her feet?
> 
> I get the feeling she's really not wanting to do the hard work here.


It was something we both wanted. I DID drag my feet in setting up an appt though a while back, which DID upset her. I dragged my feet with it when it came time to make an appt cause I was scared that we would just find out that this is 'just the way it is'. Since that's what I had been suspecting. May certainly not be the case. But with all things said it just seems to be. All I know is that I'm gonna do everything I can to meet her needs whatever they are. Even if they are things I kinda don't like to do, I DO get fulfillment and happiness in pleasing her. It makes me happy. Makes me feel like a husband. Just never understand why she doesnt feel that way about me with our sexuality. We'll see. Our therapist is on vacation next week. Ugh hahaha


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

LostinNE said:


> Was actually commenting on another thread about that.
> 
> Instead of telling what I want and such, I kind of made it a point to share that this is something that I NEED. Which of course stressed her out and made her angry on that long ride back from counseling.
> 
> ...


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

> What I am suggesting is elevate your conversation a bit. Saying I NEED SEX is not altogther idea. Saying that I view marriages as sexual relationships, and that my main emotional need in marriage is sexual fulfillment.... This is a less self centered and more values based description of the same thing


Just one of my views ( but essential one ) of marriage, or at least a marriage that I need to be succesful . 



> It does no blow over. It is directly cuasing her to not want to have sex with. The exact conversation she is having with herself is "Lost" does not want to X,Y,Z for me and he expects me to want to have sex with him?


Right. It never blows over completely. Same as my issues with our marriage.




> Good idea, but not a great approach. You want your wife to spontaneously and willingly take the initiatve to meet your needs. You have to do the same thing. She wants you to have some level of understanding of what is imporant to her... She does not want to give you a list of her needs so you can check off meeting them one by one and then BOOM you will get sex. I can virtually guarntee that her first need on the list she makes is she needs you to stop bothering her about sex. You should make your own list of her needs, and ask her for feedback...


Great idea !


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## Centurions (Jan 31, 2013)

Greetings!

Be sure you are masculine, with strong attitude and behaviors. Be taking good vitamins and supplements, and maintain a good, healthy diet. Make sure you are dressing sharp, and look good. Check your hygiene, and pay attention to being neat, clean, and smelling *good*! Hit the gym, hard. Get building a strong, muscular physique. Cultivate hobbies, friends and activities. Build an interesting, fun life.

Tell her that sex--regular, passionate sex is critical for you. She had best get with the program and become a hot sex beast with you, or you're done. You will soon find a woman that will be a eager, hot sexy beast with you.

Stop playing games, begging, do counseling. Geesus. All such nonsense and BS. Loving sex and wanting to fvvck like animals is *natural*. It doesn't require a library of reading, thousands of dollars and endless counseling.

Know any friends with girlfriends? Think about it. Girlfriends don't need this to fvvck you silly. No games. No begging; no counseling needed! They want you. All the time. You deserve better, my friend.

Oh, and if she doesn't get with your program right fvvcking quick, by doing all I suggested, you will soon be experiencing A TOTALLY DIFFERENT WORLD, brother, and for the better!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

OP,

You say you got together at around 17 and been together for 20 so that puts you at 38. So you have had 20 years of really bad and infrequent sex.

The good news is that you could have 20 - 30 years (or more even) of good sex in front of you, BUT...

IT IS NOT GOING TO BE WITH YOUR CURRENT WIFE !

Until you understand that, nothing will change for you.

Your W, btw, to her credit, has been completely honest with you for 20 years now that sex isn't important to her. Time for you to take the hint. 

The reason she wanted counseling was most likely to get you to be like her, not for her to find increased sexual interest in you.

There are many members here that have divorced because of this and are now sexually happy with someone else. You are still very young and could do this, but you have to want to.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

barbados said:


> OP,
> 
> You say you got together at around 17 and been together for 20 so that puts you at 38. So you have had 20 years of really bad and infrequent sex.
> 
> ...


I'm 35. But the years will go by. 

My wife has given mixed messages throughout the years. Only recently has she said things like 'That just isn't me. This is the way it is. You need to take it or leave it '. Before it was more like , 'I'm just not confident. I don't know how ' etc.

So, I'm just really trying to hash it all out. I can't stand the thought of not living with our children. But can't go another 18 years like this. Couldn't sleep last night at all. That comment she made with the Dr about generally just uncomfortable with 'stimulating me at all' has just been stewing in my mind ever since. Hurts


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> I'm 35. But the years will go by.
> 
> My wife has given mixed messages throughout the years. Only recently has she said things like 'That just isn't me. This is the way it is. *You need to take it or leave it* '. Before it was more like , 'I'm just not confident. I don't know how ' etc.
> 
> So, I'm just really trying to hash it all out. *I can't stand the thought of not living with our children.* But can't go another 18 years like this. Couldn't sleep last night at all. That comment she made with the Dr about generally just uncomfortable with 'stimulating me at all' has just been stewing in my mind ever since. Hurts


Ok 35 so you're even younger which is good.

The first bolded part above is who she. The second is your dilema. So the choice for you is simple :

Sexless life full of resentment and bitterness, but with the kids full time for now until they get older and start doing their own stuff and eventually move out. OR.....

Possibly sex FILLED life, no resentment or bitterness, kids part time for now until they get older and then its part time no matter what.

Your choice.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

barbados said:


> Ok 35 so you're even younger which is good.
> 
> The first bolded part above is who she. The second is your dilema. So the choice for you is simple :
> 
> ...


Those two will be on the table. However I choose the third option. 

We continue with counseling and see if we can both find out who we really are and what a marriage truly means to us. Something we should have done many years ago but we got married too quickly because I was going to war. So we didn't have those important discussions. 

I've come to realize that throughout the years, I have placed the idea of 'my wife's sexual desire for me' as being validation of me as a man. Since I've not felt it much since we've been together, it came to be the 'only thing missing' in my point of view. Since it was the 'only thing missing' to me, it would be all that I would think about regarding the marriage and therefore place it as 'most important'. Now if my wife knows that 'her husband feels our sexual relationship is how he feels validated as a man', than how could she possibly measure up in her eyes ? If it's a 'This is just not me' issue, than I will have to accept her the way she is wether that means stay or go. But if it's an anxiety / confidence issue, than .. no wonder. Sometimes pressure can be debilitating. 

I've been fallin' off for the last few years in regard to my health, ambitions, etc. and attributed it to our sexual relationship. I just don't feel my wife desires me and so THAT has played a role in my confidence with everything else. I'm done putting that pressure on her and done with needing that to feel validated. If a person wants something, they'll find a way.....or an excuse. And it's been my excuse for long enough. 

That doesn't mean our sexual life isn't crucial. Because it is. Guess we'll just see how it goes now.


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Sounds like you and I have sex starved marriages. Apparently one on three are just like ours or some variation of it. Not pretty I know.


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Lots of info out there on the sex starved marriage. I just started reading. Very helpful


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> Those two will be on the table. However I choose the third option.
> 
> We continue with counseling and see if we can both find out who we really are and what a marriage truly means to us. Something we should have done many years ago but we got married too quickly because I was going to war. So we didn't have those important discussions.
> 
> ...



Ok.

Just keep in mind that saying a sexless marriage is missing "only one thing" is kind of missing the point.

Good luck to you.


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

What is the point then?


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

barbados said:


> Ok.
> 
> Just keep in mind that saying a sexless marriage is missing "only one thing" is kind of missing the point.
> 
> Good luck to you.


Oh I still need that . No question. But just gonna see if part of it was Me that made her feel not confident or inadequate in some way. If that's the case then maybe her and I can help change that. 

I was *****in before that the therapist had asked her after a couple questions about other sexual things, 'Well, do u like stimulating him in general sexually'. She said No. 

It could be because she gets so anxious about Not measuring up or Confidence etc. Then we can really go from there. Or..

If it really is just 'The way it is. The way she is '. Then.....guess we'll have to go from there. *sigh* 

I only listed those two situations. Could of course, be a false dichotomy.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Okguy said:


> What is the point then?


What is the point then.. of what?


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Missing the point of what?


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Okguy said:


> Missing the point of what?


You said, "What is the point then? "


What is the point of what?

-staying married?
-going to counseling?
- etc


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

The point of a sexless marriage missing only one thing?


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Okguy said:


> The point of a sexless marriage missing only one thing?


By my earlier posts all I'm implying is I want to make sure that our issues can be worked on. Make sure of what the reasons are. It could be : 
She is LD
She is Asexual
She doesn't feel loved
She has anxiety about trying something new
She resents me for pressuring her

A sexless marriage, if one or both are feeling distressed, should not be tolerated. Maybe I want a divorce because I feel my wife is Asexual and I think I NEED to know I am desired. Maybe I really don't NEED that and I'll learn ways we can work around it. Maybe I just simply put unwanted pressure on her and she's actually HD, but just get's anxious for a number of reasons. I can't make a truly informed decision like Divorce because I don't know really what the issues are. All I know is we have to find out.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Lost, I'm going to tell you something.

Your wife likes sex and wants to have a passionate sexual relationship with a man.

She will say otherwise when asked, because that's whats good girls are taught to say.

You really really need to look at things like your wife's sexual desire is currently locked and you don't have the combination yet.

You need to get all of the things she has said about not desiring sex out of your head.

You can work on finding the combination to her lock. You cannot work a project inside her head. You can only work inside your head.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Hicks said:


> Lost, I'm going to tell you something.
> 
> Your wife likes sex and wants to have a passionate sexual relationship with a man.
> 
> ...


My friend . Think I'm gonna have to work on that assumption. The other assumption is just getting me nowhere . Hopeful. 
Thanks


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Okguy said:


> What is the point then?


Sex is very important


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Yea. It is.


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## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

NE - It is very possible that your wife feels pressured to please you and has shut down. Or it could be resentment from other things. Reading back over your posts, I think that physically your wife could be very sexual, she has just never awoken to it mentally. She probably needs IC with a sex therapist or at least a few good conversations with a sex positive girlfriend to make her curious. But that isn't going to make her want you. If there is pressure there or resentment for other things, then part of her hates you deep down and can't stand having sex - she probably feels used. I'm not saying this is right, she has a lot of issues to deal with. But you have two goals here - make your wife fall in love with you again, and get her to where she isn't afraid/against sex.

OK guy - maybe get your own thread? You confuse me here.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> My friend . Think I'm gonna have to work on that assumption. The other assumption is just getting me nowhere . Hopeful.
> Thanks


Not a wrong choice to make.

But Hicks is not speaking a universal truth. Or, to be more precise, you and your wife may never agree on what constitutes a mutually satisfying sex life. It's likely, in fact, from what I can see. The overlap region of your sexual Venn diagram is too small. 

I remember when my wife used to wonder if something was wrong with her. Why she wasn't more sexually adventurous. Why so many things that you and I think of as perfectly normal sexual behavior was a turn off or actively disgusting. 

Then she finally decided after years of introspection that "that's just who she was. Take it or leave it".


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Well said Cletus


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Believe me. Most certainly aware of this.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The main thing is this. You are seeking "sex" from your wife becuase it is an emotional need of yours. Once you get this sex you will feel fulfilled and happy in your marriage. What I am telling you is that the best way for you to get there is to provide her the feelings that you are trying to get FIRST. And her feelings of being happy and fulfilled in marriage have nothing to do with sex. Once you give her some feelings of happiness and fulfillmenet the next step is to show her in various ways that the ONLY WAY she can give you back those feelings is through good sex. Not dinners, not keeping the house clean, not taking care of her kids.... You see this is where you guys are at probably. Working hard at being a good husband / wife but not understanding it from the "receiver's" point of view.

Once she feels happy and fulfilled and once she sees that your "love language" (tangent, read this book!) is physical touch... You will then be at the critical point where you then find out the truth... I.e... She is Willing or Unwilling to TRY. If she is happy, fullfilled and knows what you need and at that point she refuses to TRY... That to me is the point where you get a divorce.

Now, let's say she gets all this and is willing to TRY to meet your needs sexually. But what if she is not that sexual dynamo you need her to be? That happens. You do have some sway there. For example if she just "lays there" you stop having sex and tell her that it's boring and you have no desire to have sex with a blow up doll. And you say it in a matter of fact way without getting all pissy and emotional. The point is there is a level of communication that you can open up with her once she is in the mode of wanting to work on her marriage to you, she will be far more receptive to improving... Will it be enough? I can't say, you can't say, Cletus can't say. Maybe it will never be enough and you will then look to get divorced. 

The choice is yours whether to try this self improvement project without anyone's promise of great results, or not try. But I can tell you digging into her sexual psyche in in an environment where she is not happy and fullfilled is absolutely the wrong way to go.

And the other really important thing is as you go through the process of learning to meet her needs is you learn about her way more.. And you learn that yes she is not the sexual dynamo of your fantasies. But you learn you are not probably the masculine "needs meeter" of her fantasies either. But when you are both operating in a mode of trying to make each other happy (trying but never perfect), you would be surprised how much this environment plays into you overall marital satisfaction and the sex aspect becomes less important to you.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Hey Lost-

The suggestions to work on yourself are really good.

This is really a mental activity that is aimed at putting yourself in a place where you don't need sex from your wife to make you realize your own worth.

There are lots of ways to intellectualize it, but the bottom line is you need to realize you don't really need this from her.

Build yourself up until you can get to this point.


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## Okguy (Aug 25, 2015)

Well said Anon


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Things have been going...ok. We decided on twice / week . She's been shown a lil more enthusiasm while we have sex. I made the list of 'My Needs' and what I think 'Her Needs' are like Hicks suggested. I put a lot of thought into them and they were actually pretty spot on. We talked about it a little easier today and I remember someone posting in another thread and they said basically, " Fine, you are Asexual / LD / etc. Ok, very well. But what are you gonna do about it ( to meet your partners needs )??? The we'll know where we stand. "

I took this to heart and thought about myself in that aspect with regard to my wife's needs. So, I mentioned this tonight and talked about what I plan on doing to meet her needs. IE - initiate and plan going out with her , being more dependable as a spouse with family responsibilities, etc. Basically, I can be a 'lazy, unmotivated type of person'. So, 'Fine. . ....But what do I plan to do about it?! '

So I was mentioned 'how' I tend to change these things and really make it happen. 

I asked her basically the same thing about how I think it'd be helpful if she would consider doing the same. IE - I really want her to consider being on top for once during sex ( or ANYTHING really that is different form the norm). But mentioned 'on top' only just to not stress her out with a million things and to keep it at just 'one thing'. Then I said maybe we can set a date, say in Sept , Oct, Nov, etc we can plan that ....

She got super bent outta shape about it and was so defensive saying, 'Why would someone continue to ask another person to "do something they're uncomfortable with" ' ?! She was crying and getting so angry with me. I keep hoping that this is just something we could work through, but she just wont budge.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Your wife has some issues (uncomfortable) about sex for whatever reason, upbringing, religion, culture, body image, etc. You have to tell her you love her very much and when you are together like that it is so special etc. Maybe you need to do a bit more encouragement, a bit more leading, a bit more talking it up 'honey, I love it when you....' 'you are awesome....' not simply demanding and bringing it up in counseling, Maybe she wants more from the journey than the destination, if you get my drift.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

aine said:


> Your wife has some issues (uncomfortable) about sex for whatever reason, upbringing, religion, culture, body image, etc. You have to tell her you love her very much and when you are together like that it is so special etc. Maybe you need to do a bit more encouragement, a bit more leading, a bit more talking it up 'honey, I love it when you....' 'you are awesome....' not simply demanding and bringing it up in counseling, Maybe she wants more from the journey than the destination, if you get my drift.


I hate to sound like 'it's all her fault' but, I've done it. For years I've brought it up aggressively, passively, passive-aggressively, assertively, etc. 

Most definitely she has some body image issues. Possibly some good girl syndrome issues. Which was brought up a little in MC. It just seems like she is not willing to work on something that is so important to me. She has never really said explicitly what her needs are quite yet. But deep down 'I know them'. So I thought that if I truly expressed that I am so enthusiastic about really meeting those needs, and not just 'saying' it, but really having a plan to make it happen, it may inspire her to do the same. I just can't reach her. 

We're in our mid 30s now. I'm just terrified of another 20 years going by with no results. Cause after reading many threads here on TAM, that definitely happens .


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> She got super bent outta shape about it and was so defensive saying, 'Why would someone continue to ask another person to "do something they're uncomfortable with" ' ?! She was crying and getting so angry with me. I keep hoping that this is just something we could work through, but she just wont budge.


Lost, I can understand how hard what I'm about to suggest would be and I don't know if you'll even be able to do it but...you shouldn't let her shut you down with her emotions like this. Crying and getting angry over asking her to be on top for once during sex is outrageously childish, but you saying she "just won't budge" shows that you accepted this behavior.

Can you bring the conversation back up, and tell her that it is emotional blackmail for her to shut you out like that with tears and anger? Can you just keep steering her back toward a civil, mature conversation about it by just gently pushing back against any tears or drama? Can you express to her that YOU have strong emotions about what you are missing in your sex life, and that you are trying to deal with those emotions by discussing them, but that you too could break down? This may let her know how childish she is being and make her have some empathy for your position, instead of just being stuck in her own position. You have shown her empathy, and that is great, but you can't show her that her emotions are more important to you than your own. That just allows her to not face her own issues while simultaneously blaming them on you.

I know you may not think you can talk her down like this, but if you are going to let her bully you with emotional blackmail, she will just keep doing that.

I don't know what her issues are, if she is a CSA victim or what...but usually someone who is THAT opposed to something as simple as being on top is either very traumatized, or they simply don't want to be challenged to grow. If she is a trauma victim, then don't push as I'm suggesting. But if she's not, you should try.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Lost, I can understand how hard what I'm about to suggest would be and I don't know if you'll even be able to do it but...you shouldn't let her shut you down with her emotions like this. Crying and getting angry over asking her to be on top for once during sex is outrageously childish, but you saying she "just won't budge" shows that you accepted this behavior.
> 
> Can you bring the conversation back up, and tell her that it is emotional blackmail for her to shut you out like that with tears and anger? Can you just keep steering her back toward a civil, mature conversation about it by just gently pushing back against any tears or drama? Can you express to her that YOU have strong emotions about what you are missing in your sex life, and that you are trying to deal with those emotions by discussing them, but that you too could break down? This may let her know how childish she is being and make her have some empathy for your position, instead of just being stuck in her own position. You have shown her empathy, and that is great, but you can't show her that her emotions are more important to you than your own. That just allows her to not face her own issues while simultaneously blaming them on you.
> 
> ...


She is not a victim of trauma in that way. We started dating in high school, so I've known her a long time. Of course though, There was 16 years of her life up until the day we met where I wasn't there. Plus I was deployed for over a year when we first got married. So of course, you never know. I've gently brought it up only a few times. Just to let her know that I wouldn't view her in a different way, and that I love her and that wouldn't change that in the slightest, etc. The MC also had asked her. But she always replies No. 

Night time isn't always the best time to be having these discussions with her. So I empathize with that as we have to wake up early to get the kids ready for school and such. So I said, would you rather talk about this tomorrow during/after lunch? Which she replied Yes ( but of course that was the only option I mentioned. Rather then saying, 'Don't wanna talk about it? ' ). 

So, I'll be bringing it up tomorrow afternoon when she gets outta work.

You said *Can you express to her that YOU have strong emotions about what you are missing in your sex life, and that you are trying to deal with those emotions by discussing them, but that you too could break down?*

What do you mean ?

Meaning 'I could just break down and cry as well' but I can't just do that anymore and need to face it and work through it' ?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> You said *Can you express to her that YOU have strong emotions about what you are missing in your sex life, and that you are trying to deal with those emotions by discussing them, but that you too could break down?*
> 
> What do you mean ?
> 
> Meaning 'I could just break down and cry as well' but I can't just do that anymore and need to face it and work through it' ?


Well, maybe not break down and cry but you certainly do feel unhappy and sometimes angry about your position, right? Whatever your real and strongest emotions are, if you unleashed them on her, she would be shocked, right? Somehow you should convey to her that you are dealing with raw emotions, too...specifically, you are afraid your marriage isn't going to make it, I assume? Have you ever told her that?


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

> Well, maybe not break down and cry but you certainly do feel unhappy and sometimes angry about your position, right? Whatever your real and strongest emotions are, if you unleashed them on her, she would be shocked, right? Somehow you should convey to her that you are dealing with raw emotions, too...specifically, you are afraid your marriage isn't going to make it, I assume? Have you ever told her that?


Have told her my feelings many times. She's the only person I don't feel embarrassed to cry in front of. It just doesn't seem to matter enough to her. I have hard boundaries too. But Jeeez


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> Have told her my feelings many times. She's the only person I can not feel embarrassed to cry in front of. It just doesn't seem to matter enough to her. I have hard boundaries too. But Jeeez


Ok well, at a minimum, don't sit around for it if she takes the conversation to emotional blackmail. Just refuse to engage on that level at that time and end the conversation but tell her we will continue talking sometime when you can hold yourself together better. Put all of that stuff back on her and don't let her bully you with it. So what if she cries? Don't let that make you feel bad for her, let it make you angry that she is trying to emotionally blackmail you just to shut down what should be normal conversation in marriage.

You don't have to tell her all of that, just know it yourself. Open your eyes and accept how she is truly treating you and understand that this is the person you are married to. Start asking yourself why you have allowed this to happen and work on your assertiveness.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

intheory said:


> Actually, I think LostinNE SHOULD literally do that. Start depriving her of things that are vital and important to her. Both on a physical and emotional level.
> ------------------------------------
> 
> 20 years and counting. 35 sounds young to me now, lol. You could still have a happy sex life somewhere with someone.
> ...


I appreciate your candid response. I have tried the rte of depriving her of her needs. It was never out of malicious intent. But more of, 'I don't feel connected with this woman. I can't show affection to someone that doesn't desire me the same way ' type of thing. 

I just don't have it in me to purposely hurt her feelings.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok well, at a minimum, don't sit around for it if she takes the conversation to emotional blackmail. Just refuse to engage on that level at that time and end the conversation but tell her we will continue talking sometime when you can hold yourself together better. Put all of that stuff back on her and don't let her bully you with it. So what if she cries? Don't let that make you feel bad for her, let it make you angry that she is trying to emotionally blackmail you just to shut down what should be normal conversation in marriage.
> 
> You don't have to tell her all of that, just know it yourself. Open your eyes and accept how she is truly treating you and understand that this is the person you are married to. Start asking yourself why you have allowed this to happen and work on your assertiveness.


Ok. Thanks for your help. Never looked at it this way. Of course, 'blackmail' implies malicious intent. I'll just be sure to let her know that it's not something she is doing on purpose to 'control me or guilt me' etc. But, even if it's not malicious, it is still unacceptable and must end.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> Ok. Thanks for your help. Never looked at it this way. Of course, 'blackmail' implies malicious intent. I'll just be sure to let her know that it's not something she is doing on purpose to 'control me or guilt me' etc. But, even if it's not malicious, it is still unacceptable and must end.


It may not be malicious and she may truly have a hard time being sexual...however, her refusal to work on whatever her own issues are in order to make you happier in marriage should be obvious to you. So see her crying and anger for what it really is: Frustration that she can't make you stop being a sexual person and just stop "badgering" her for sex. This may not be malicious, but it is immature and unkind. 

You have to stop being afraid of her emotions and just deal with them head on. That doesn't mean you have to be "mean" or unkind to her. You simply have to have more self-care than you have previously had. You have to trust that what you are asking for is normal in marriage and that she is refusing to let go of an immature point of view. Which is ok, and you may ultimately have to accept that she will not change, either. But you don't have to stick around for her emotional displays and certainly do not let them make you stop doing good self-care. Your emotions matter, too, don't get sucked into hers.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You should demonstrate meeting her needs before you start asking for her to do these things. Not just show her the plan, but execute the plan willingly without expectation. You don't want to send the message that you are doing something to get sex. You want to send the message that you are doing things because you love her and that's how you operate. Give it time.

Now when she asks "Why would you want to do something that makes me uncomfortable?" Blow her mind by answering the question. "I want to do that becuase I love you deeply. I desire you fully and completely. As a man it's how I connect and emotionally bond with you. I'm sorry that certain forms of love making make you feel uncomfortable. I just want you to know that these request come from a place of love in my heart".

Then stop! This is not a conversation, it's an answer to a question. She will react how she reacts, but I guarantee she will think about this. In fact it may be a good idea to bring it back up today... I.e.. Last night you asked me " ...." and I want to answer that for you now.

You see, in her thinking you are asking her this because you are trying to hurt her. She thinks you have Malice in your heart. Part of your marital journey is for her to learn that it's the exact opposite.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

You're still in the mindset that you can change this.

That's your only real problem now. This is like living with an alcoholic, in a way. You have to accept that you have no real power over this problem. I know, it takes time to get there, but you've invested 20 years already. Are ya slow, boy? 

I'm not inclined to tell you what you should do about it, since you're a Big Boy and it's your life. Others are more casual about telling you how you should run it. But I will advise you to start being realistic about a problem that you've spent so much time trying to fix. Is your wife going to get hit by a meteor tomorrow and all of a sudden become enthusiastic about changing this clearly well ingrained part of her personality? It's a sucker's bet. Whatever this leads you to do is your business, but Eyes Wide Open, man. Accept that which cannot be denied.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

LostinNE said:


> I just don't have it in me to purposely hurt her feelings.


It's in there. Look harder.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

intheory said:


> Good chance she's sussed this out. And so will continue to let you starve, sexually and emotionally.
> 
> Your life. Tick, tick, tick . . .


This ^^^^


There are no such thing as asexual people. That is a lie and I have never believed it. I barely agree with this LD/HD stuff.

Some people are too busy and focused on other things to have sex, some have taken vows not to have sex, and some people are too emotionally or mentally damaged to have sex...

Barring those things, when a partner shows no sexual interest in you at all, it is simply because the partner does not see you as sexually desirable. Period. 

Believe me when I say that there is a man out there somewhere who would rock your wife's world if she met him. A man who she would crawl naked through the mud and rain to have sex with. This is the ugly truth about some people who place security and comfort above sexual satisfaction. Your wife married you because you were a safe bet...not because to made her tingle.

So you have a choice, keep living with a woman who loves you like a roommate/best friend and who appeases you with sex once in a while to get you off her back, or you can divorce and take your chances out in the dating world.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> There are no such thing as asexual people. That is a lie and I have never believed it. I barely agree with this LD/HD stuff.


Translation: "I don't feel asexual or LD and never have and I cannot understand that not everyone feels or thinks like I do, therefore I will project my thoughts on feelings on everyone across the board and if they don't share my thoughts and feelings, they are lying".


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

LostinNE said:


> Things have been going...ok. We decided on twice / week . She's been shown a lil more enthusiasm while we have sex. I made the list of 'My Needs' and what I think 'Her Needs' are like Hicks suggested. I put a lot of thought into them and they were actually pretty spot on. We talked about it a little easier today and I remember someone posting in another thread and they said basically, " Fine, you are Asexual / LD / etc. Ok, very well. But what are you gonna do about it ( to meet your partners needs )??? The we'll know where we stand. "
> 
> I took this to heart and thought about myself in that aspect with regard to my wife's needs. So, I mentioned this tonight and talked about what I plan on doing to meet her needs. IE - initiate and plan going out with her , being more dependable as a spouse with family responsibilities, etc. Basically, I can be a 'lazy, unmotivated type of person'. So, 'Fine. . ....But what do I plan to do about it?! '
> 
> ...


hey dude--

this brings back memories.

I remember when my wife and I hashed out an agreement in MC with the 2x a week plan.

I remember thinking, "Finally, we're getting somewhere."

Then I remember after a couple of weeks, the sex becoming total starfish. As unenthusiastic as possible. Until, finally, a few weeks later, I said, hey, what's the problem-- you're just laying there.

And it was clear it was a "take it or leave it" deal.

Sound familiar?

I wish I wasn't so pessimistic about this, but here is what I am pretty sure is your reality:

She is just not attracted to you anymore.

You already know this, which is why you were crying about it. I don't blame you. I know where you are coming from.

All of the negotiating and counseling, etc, etc will get you nowhere. 

Imagine a woman who is completely unattractive physically to you. Is there anything she could say that would make you want her?

The sad reality is-- that is who you are to your wife right now.

Your best bet-- really your only chance (and it is slim)-- is that you transform yourself into such a stud that she will effectively see you as a new man. Because that is what she really wants-- not you.

Even if you do transform yourself, odds are that she still will not be into you. 

It's like when you get labelled as a loser in high school. You never really lose that identity unless you move and start over.

This really, really sucks.

But you don't have to let it destroy you.

Pursure that transformation, but do it for YOURSELF and your kids, not her.

She has already left you behind dude. Sorry. It really sucks.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Translation: "I don't feel asexual or LD and never have and I cannot understand that not everyone feels or thinks like I do, therefore I will project my thoughts on feelings on everyone across the board and if they don't share my thoughts and feelings, they are lying".


Yeah....

That's pretty much it.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Lost-- just re-read this thread a bit and it is making me cringe because I've been exactly where you are in many ways.

In case you are still reading, here is what you need to accept:

-your desires are totally normal

-you don't need to apologize for them or qualify them in any way

-your wife has her own free will so she can choose not to meet your needs, but she doesn't get to define your needs for you

-you can be a better guy, but doing so should not be contingent on whether she meets your needs or not. In other words, be the person who you want to be and let that exist on it's own terms-- don't allow yourself of falling into the trap of living your life around placating her. Conversely, don't allow yourself the excuse of being a sh-thead just because she sucks as a partner. 

--You own you. She owns herself.

--Don't look for support from someone who shows no inclination to support you. Doing this will ultimately just make you feel bad about yourself. Learn to support yourself emotionally. If you need to cry, you will feel better about yourself if you cry alone than if you cry in front of her and then realize she will do nothing to help you feel better.

-Similarly, don't accept sex from her if all it does is remind you how little she cares. 

-In summary, use you energy to take care of yourself and let her take care of herself. Maybe by doing this, you can both become slightly better adjusted and that can be a platform for a real relationship. But don't do any of this with the hope of that (doing so defeats the purpose). You need to own your own life and let her own hers.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Things have been going pretty well. She decided on doing what I like ( within reason hehe) once a week, and what she likes once a week. 'My' night was some days ago, and she initiated and enthusiastically got on top. It was actually spectacular. She had an O first and I knew she gets a little sensitive there if we go for too long, so I asked if she could do something else. She said No wasn't comfortable doing that ( even though she's done it before a handful of times with or without me asking ). I tried to ask why, and the whole night was ruined cause I got super angry and my feelings were hurt. Instead of acknowledging her spectacular performance just earlier. I honestly thought since it was something she had been stressing, that it would've showed and would've been super awkward. But Nope. She did it as if she had done it a thousand times. Which blew me away. Since then I've sincerely apologized. Hoping that 'latest sexual experience' won't jeopardize future ones. Even though I'm sure it had. So just gotta be more understanding and patient. 

Still could certainly be a complete sexual mismatch. But I'm not so sure just yet. Especially because she surprised me with how into it she got with something she was 'extremely uncomfortable with'. I had asked her a couple days ago how she felt during, she laughed and basically said, 'it wasn't as scary as I thought. Was fun'. 

Kinda like, 'you get ridiculous anxiety over things that you actually do want'. Like say, 'performing on stage'. You really DO wanna be that. But it's just scary. And once you do it your like, 'Oh. That wasn't so bad. Why was I stressing about this so much?' .


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Barring those things, when a partner shows no sexual interest in you at all, it is simply because the partner does not see you as sexually desirable. Period.
> 
> Believe me when I say that there is a man out there somewhere who would rock your wife's world if she met him.


100% true OP. 

Your wife doesn't have a low libido. She just has a low libido WITH YOU. You're a security blanket to her. And like an old blanket you are warm, inviting and comfortable but not very attractive. You can either accept that, try to make yourself more attractive to her (if it's even still possible) or move on.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> 100% true OP.
> 
> Your wife doesn't have a low libido. She just has a low libido WITH YOU. You're a security blanket to her. And like an old blanket you are warm, inviting and comfortable but not very attractive. You can either accept that, try to make yourself more attractive to her (if it's even still possible) or move on.


I hear that happens with most sexual relationships. The 'lust' just aint there anymore. Fortunately ( or unfortunately ) I never lost that lust for 'her'. I was asking her this the other day just from a realistic standpoint and that I know that happens with most people. She replied No of course. Who would wanna hear that lolz. I've always had insecurities about my looks. But just had self esteem issues growing up. I'm an attractive guy ( feel weird even saying that haha ). But one of my favorite quotes, .... "You show me the most beautiful sexy woman in the world. And I'll show you the man that's tired of f***in her." lmao

So Ya. She could just be bored with me. Who knows


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

LostinNE said:


> I hear that happens with most sexual relationships. The 'lust' just aint there anymore. Fortunately ( or unfortunately ) I never lost that lust for 'her'. I was asking her this the other day just from a realistic standpoint and that I know that happens with most people. She replied No of course. Who would wanna hear that lolz. I've always had insecurities about my looks. But just had self esteem issues growing up. I'm an attractive guy ( feel weird even saying that haha ). But one of my favorite quotes, .... "You show me the most beautiful sexy woman in the world. And I'll show you the man that's tired of f***in her." lmao
> 
> So Ya. She could just be bored with me. Who knows


To clarify, you could very well be a good looking guy. You're just not attractive to her. If that's repairable... who knows? Sometimes when a woman loses attraction for a man it just doesn't come back. 

She's not going to be blunt and tell you the truth. That's what TAM's for. You can only control yourself so you have a choice to make about accepting that or not.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

LostinNE said:


> Things have been going pretty well. She decided on doing what I like ( within reason hehe) once a week, and what she likes once a week. 'My' night was some days ago, and she initiated and enthusiastically got on top. It was actually spectacular. She had an O first and I knew she gets a little sensitive there if we go for too long, so I asked if she could do something else. She said No wasn't comfortable doing that ( even though she's done it before a handful of times with or without me asking ). I tried to ask why, and the whole night was ruined cause I got super angry and my feelings were hurt. Instead of acknowledging her spectacular performance just earlier.


A couple of thoughts here:

First, instead of asking, just go for it. Asking is more likely to come off as weak and will result in a knee jerk reaction. She imagines it will suck, so of course she'll say "no." 

if it just "happens" maybe she won't overthink it and go with it.

Obviously if she shuts it down, don't force her. 

But try to adopt a mindset that assumes a "yes" rather than puts the control in her hands.

Second, if she does shut you down, don't apologize or show regret. Remember, you own your needs. You wanted to do it, so you did it. You can't help it if she doesn't like it. That's on her, not you.

You don't need to explain why you want it. You just do. It's totally fine that you want it. 

If she says "no" just say "OK" and move on. For you, moving on may mean moving on to something else sexual. Or if you judge the moment to be lost, just get up and walk out of the room.

Again, you don't let her dictate what your needs/desires should be. She can participate or not, but you shouldn't feel pressure to compromise for a totally reasonable attempt.



LostinNE said:


> I honestly thought since it was something she had been stressing, that it would've showed and would've been super awkward. But Nope. She did it as if she had done it a thousand times. Which blew me away.


This comes back to the fact that it is not the act itself, it's the fact that she's not super attracted to you.

Now you know this, so you can stop feeling self conscious about going for this.



LostinNE said:


> Since then I've sincerely apologized. Hoping that 'latest sexual experience' won't jeopardize future ones. Even though I'm sure it had. So just gotta be more understanding and patient.


Again, don't apologize. It's not your problem.

Don't look at this as "jeopardizing" anything. If she's not into it, that's her problem. 

You shouldn't need to walk on eggshells to have a normal sex life.

You are way too patient already. 

I'm not saying seek out conflict, but make your needs plain, go for it and let her shut you down. Then walk away when she does. 

Don't let her frame it as you being unreasonable. You are not.



LostinNE said:


> Still could certainly be a complete sexual mismatch. But I'm not so sure just yet. Especially because she surprised me with how into it she got with something she was 'extremely uncomfortable with'. I had asked her a couple days ago how she felt during, she laughed and basically said, 'it wasn't as scary as I thought. Was fun'.


Stop seeking her approval like this. Assume she liked it. Asking for her approval after the fact just makes you look unsure of yourself, which is not sexy. If she did it, she was at least fine with it.

I would stop talking about this stuff altogether actually. Act, don't talk.



LostinNE said:


> Kinda like, 'you get ridiculous anxiety over things that you actually do want'. Like say, 'performing on stage'. You really DO wanna be that. But it's just scary. And once you do it your like, 'Oh. That wasn't so bad. Why was I stressing about this so much?' .


This does not seem like the right analogy to me. I don't think she actually wants it. She might grow to want it, but she doesn't right now and that is the issue. I think if she has anxiety it's because she knows she's not very good at hiding her lack of attraction and she knows that puts your relationship in jeopardy.

**I am not saying any of the above to sh-t on you. I have been in your position and am in many ways still there. I'm offering the above to help you avoid some of the big mistakes I've made over the past few years.**


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

*Originally Posted by LostinNE View Post*
I honestly thought since it was something she had been stressing, that it would've showed and would've been super awkward. But Nope. She did it as if she had done it a thousand times. Which blew me away.
* Anon1111
This comes back to the fact that it is not the act itself, it's the fact that she's not super attracted to you.

Now you know this, so you can stop feeling self conscious about going for this.
*

Me not attractive to her is a running theme right now. Could you explain your comment here further? And no I'm not super butt hurt that you said that  

Just don't get how you connected my comment above that one to yours and how other factors are unlikely the culprit


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

OK, let me elaborate.

A woman who is really attracted to a man will usually want to please that man sexually. So the fact that your wife does not seem to have much interest in pleasing you sexually means either (1) she is not very attracted to you or (2) she doesn't care for sex at all generally.

Choice (2) is much more soothing to your ego. It's just her nature! It's not me!

But (sorry to say) it is very unlikely to be true. There was probably a time long ago where your wife was not as cold as she is now. She was more attracted to you then.

And if you broke up, do you really think she would be this uninterested in sex with the next guy?

I know it is a painful thing to consider, but be honest with yourself.

Second, regarding this particular act (her on top). She has been insisting that she doesn't like it. Well, you just saw direct evidence that this is not true. Why in the world would she say she doesn't like this thing when she actually does?

Well, there are a few possibilities. 

(1) she could have faked liking it because she knows how important it is to you (actually, this is a strong possibility-- sorry) 

(2) she hates sex generally (but again see above) or 

(3) she has gotten into a routine with you that has allowed her to compartmentalize sex with you (which she really does not desire) into something tolerable. She does not want to deviate from this routine at all because, frankly, she's just not interested in sex with you to begin with. Doing something new or different would be like giving a further piece of herself up. On top of that it would probably encourage you to ask for more frequency, more new acts, etc. She's got the sex thing put into a box which she completely controls right now and she doesn't want that to change. But again, circle back to the fact that women generally want to please men sexually who they find attractive. If you were really attractive to her, she would probably want to be CREATIVE to show you how much she liked you, not begrudgingly allowing you to do things.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> OK, let me elaborate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hate how right this is.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

rich84 said:


> I hate how right this is.


haha. me too. but knowing is the first step to fixing it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

anon1111 said:


> haha. Me too. But knowing is the first step to *accepting * it.


fify.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> haha. me too. but knowing is the first step to fixing it.


me three... excellent incite!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

When you go fishing, and a fish bites your worm, do you immediately attempt to yank it out of the water and eat it?


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

I want to have really great kinky mind-blowing sex. Just not with anyone I know. 

(I had a fight with my husband. Don't take the above too seriously. Just a little seriously.)


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Hicks said:


> When you go fishing, and a fish bites your worm, do you immediately attempt to yank it out of the water and eat it?


Ouch. Am I the fish in this scenario ?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

NO the fisherman.
If your wife tries to please you, she should never walk away from that feeling bad about it.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Hicks said:


> NO the fisherman.
> If your wife tries to please you, she should never walk away from that feeling bad about it.


Agree, but the key is if she's honestly making an effort to please you.

duty sex where she has an attitude of hurry up and get it over with does not apply.

Reward genuine efforts to connect. Don't accept insincerity.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

It sounds like you are making some reasonable progress. I would be complimentary towards your wife and indicate that deepening your relationship works on an emotional level too. :smile2:


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## Jak22 (Sep 14, 2015)

A very interesting thread and much food for thought for my personal situation.

I would like to inject a few theories of mine into the mix.

I read somewhere that since women have been taking the contraceptive pill, they have lost the ability to recognise an immune system compatibility through the sense of smell. Thus, when they stop taking the pill, their partners may possibly smell quite revolting to them indicating an immune system mismatch. No idea how often this happens, but perhaps it should be investigated.

Another theory I have, is to do with early indoctrination of girls by mothers who have hang ups about sex.
Like some religions say "give me the child until he is seven, and I will give you the man.", drumming into a little girl that "down there" is disgusting and dirty and should never be touched inappropriately, and that men (boys) are just sex craving animals. The old mantra for Victorian women to "lay back and think of England" contributes to this brain washed attitude to sex. Women who like sex were seen as deviant and still are. My 71 year-old wife, a retired psychologist still claims that women who like it too much are very likely to have been sexualised as a little child through sexual abuse.

Then I wonder where women get educated about how to f**k properly to get full enjoyment. If a woman endures poor sexual enjoyment caused by her ignorance, she is surely going to get fedup with this and be completely turned off by a partner who keeps pestering her for this disappointingly unenjoyable activity,

Just my 2 cents, jak


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Jak22 said:


> A very interesting thread and much food for thought for my personal situation.
> 
> I would like to inject a few theories of mine into the mix.
> 
> ...


Never heard that. Just read a few studies on it. Interesting. I remember many years ago when my wife began birth control, I swear her libido went down. I had brought that up a couple weeks ago and she was open to entertaining the idea of getting off it. But with the benefits of regularity and lightness of her period, we'd have to see. I think it'd be worth trying. Will talk about it with her.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Well....that didn't go well. 


Talked to her earlier mentioning if she'd entertain the idea of getting off birth control. She seemed receptive at first and said her Rx wwould run out at the end of the week so she could stop taking it then (very receptive tone),........but became increasingly irritated as the minutes went by. She was a little insulted I think cause things have been going fairly well in that dept lately. I tried to reassure her that it HAS been great to which she'd reply, 'But just isn't enough huh? That's what your telling me right ? It's not enough." I had just mentioned that I thought her desire for me was much higher when she wasn't on the pill and maybe we could just try it out and see. Since it's her body I mentioned it's up to her as I know there are benefits to being on it. Basically came down to: "So you're you're just trying to 'change me' (again). RIGHT? " ........ 

(-I get where she's comin from but I also know that when you put drugs into your body, especially psychotropic / hormonal /etc., they change you.- )

.........I said I was just thinking about it recently and I remembered how you used to pursue me. And that I couldn't tell if the loss of libido was due to , starting the pill or if I just wasn't 'shiny n new' anymore. She said it was probably the latter. 

Sheesh. Ah well.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

LostInNE: Back to basics. Work out. East right. GAL. Kick butt at work. Either you will become more "shiny and new" in her eyes or you won't. If you do, great, she is happier and you get more sex. If not, you are in a better position to negotiate with her or with the next woman.

She is correct. You are trying to change her. Might be the easiest and most appropriate way to deal with the mismatch, but unfortunately you got one of the many spouses (and there are both HDs and LDs) who are not interested in making it easier for you. So you will have to do the work or do without. Your choice.

FYI, I choose to do without. I do not suggest making my choice.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> LostInNE: Back to basics. Work out. East right. GAL. Kick butt at work. Either you will become more "shiny and new" in her eyes or you won't. If you do, great, she is happier and you get more sex. If not, you are in a better position to negotiate with her or with the next woman.
> 
> She is correct. You are trying to change her. Might be the easiest and most appropriate way to deal with the mismatch, but unfortunately you got one of the many spouses (and there are both HDs and LDs) who are not interested in making it easier for you. So you will have to do the work or do without. Your choice.
> 
> FYI, I choose to do without. I do not suggest making my choice.


Was just flirting with the idea of not 'changing' her but 'bringing her back' ( if that was even applicable ). I've been on medications in the past that affected me. Antidepressants, Pain Meds, etc. Don't think I'd respond that way to her if she came to me with concerns. 

But you're right. Will do those things


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

LostinNE said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> My wife and I have been together for nearly twenty years and married for about twelve of those years. We have to kids together elementary school aged. She is the most wonderful person I've ever known. But our sex life has always been a problem. I am the one that has to do the initiating and during sex I'm the one that has to do everything. Only two positions are pretty much allowed and there's never any enthusiasm on her part. I've always wanted her to try a more dominant role but it just doesn't happen. I have asked her before if Sex is something where she could just take it or leave it. She would reply Yes. And I would say 'but, ..preferably leave it?" And she would nod her head. We are in marriage counseling now but I'm getting very discouraged. Why would I continually try to get a person to do something they aren't interested in? Just makes me feel pathetic. She's always told me she never desires it, fantasizes about it, etc. During our counseling session the other day, the therapist asked her Why she agreed to have sex with me that first time years ago. Affection toward him or Obligation. To which she replied 'Obligation'. We are 'working on things' now, going to counseling and stuff. But I just can't get past her attitude toward it. 'Preferably Leave It'.
> 
> Being married to someone that doesn't desire you ( or maybe sex in general ) is just debilitating. I just don't see how this will work. Anyone else in my shoes, and is able to look past this? Seems impossible.



Did you marry my wife?:grin2:

I too am HD adventurous like yourself and Mrs.CuddleBug is LD vanilla like your wife.

I love Mrs.CuddleBug but her low vanilla sex drive has caused so many issues over our 16 years of being married, its crazy.

What I've learned is the LD vanilla spouse won't change, no matter how much you talk about it, read books, play emotional games making yourself less available, etc.

In the end, the HD adventurous spouse will be compromising their sex drive down to the LD vanilla's spouses.

There is really nothing you can do about this.

Only thing I know of that works, is the LD vanilla spouse starts taking testosterone, some weights and cardio and this will get their sex drives up fast. Female body builders and female UFC fighters take testosterone and weight train with cardio. I've read that most of them have high sex drives as the result and want sex almost every day.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

I used to place my worth in what I thought my wife thought of me. After 16 yrs and at times going 7-10 days between sex I was angry and resentful. I was a bottler, held it all inside....its like cancer and soon consumes you. 

She used to say all I thought about was sex...when you are starving all you can think of is food. She could cut your throat with words and while you are on the ground bleeding she would look at you like a fool.

I finally got to a point where I was thinking FU. For 10 yrs I would not seek a loan for house because she would drop the D word or say she is ready to just leave.

I found MMSL Primer....I became kind of detached, broke my wife goggles per se. I dropped 65 lbs in 2.5 months and packed on ALOT of muscle. She said all kinds of crap, like I looked like I was ill and I did not look good...I looked like a cancer patient. It was not attractive.
I dropped 10 yrs of pent up resentment in her lap too. 

She was stunned and thought I was checked out and looking for another female. I then resented her because I no longer loved her to the depth I did previously....it was different. But I knew now my life would not be over if I did not have her. 

Sex went from every 7-10 days to 5x week. She was chasing me now. She has turned me down 2 times in 16 months. 

The muscle is a big turn on for her. I'm the man and act like one now. I no longer take **** from her like I used to. She has said crap before(**** test)and I throw it right back at her and I will see her smile as she turns to walk away.

Confidence. Muscle.Take no ****. Be the Man. Worked for me with the Good Lord's guidance.


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Divinely Favored said:


> I used to place my worth in what I thought my wife thought of me. After 16 yrs and at times going 7-10 days between sex I was angry and resentful. I was a bottler, held it all inside....its like cancer and soon consumes you.
> 
> She used to say all I thought about was sex...when you are starving all you can think of is food.


EXACTLY!


> I finally got to a point where I was thinking FU. For 10 yrs I would not seek a loan for house because she would drop the D word or say she is ready to just leave.
> 
> I found MMSL Primer....I became kind of detached, broke my wife goggles per se. I dropped 65 lbs in 2.5 months and packed on ALOT of muscle. She said all kinds of crap, like I looked like I was ill and I did not look good...I looked like a cancer patient. It was not attractive.
> I dropped 10 yrs of pent up resentment in her lap too.
> ...


Taking this idea seriously now. Read much of No More Mr Nice Guy. My wife is the one that sets the pace in our house. Mostly because she is more opinionated than me in what we all do. Gonna work on this. It's been said before , 'women are attracted to men they respect'.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> Did you marry my wife?:grin2:
> 
> I too am HD adventurous like yourself and Mrs.CuddleBug is LD vanilla like your wife.
> 
> ...


That may be true in most cases, but I know that some LD spouses *will* compromise on frequency. Of course, most of their HD spouses probably aren't posting here, because their needs are being met to an acceptable degree.


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