# Wife Continues Emortional Affair. Help.



## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

In September my wife of 9 years began an emotional affair with a man she knew in college. She found him on facebook. In short she began to chat, talk and text him and eventually met him in person (he lives in another state) as he was in our area on business. 

I found out about the affair through snooping around. I was very emotional (both good and bad) about her affair as I love my wife very much and we have a 2 year old together. The first month after was complete hell. I was angry and sad at the same time. I just felt so betrayed as I have never nor would I ever cheat on my wife. My wife numerous times has said she has stopped talking to this other guy, but I find out each time that she hasn't. He is now in Iraq and continues to call her from Iraq to let her know how he is doing, even though she says she told him not to call her. He even had the gall to call our home number several times, once while I was home.

I am currently in counseling alone. It has now been 3 months and my wife has not shown any commitment to me or working on our marriage. She talked to this other guy as recently as last week. When I push the issue and ask her what she wants, she says she "doesn't want a divorce" and that "i don't know how she feels.". When I try to talk to her she won't talk to me. I honestly feel like she is playing me. She knows that I"m a soft hearted guy and that I care for her. She says that she doesn't want to hurt me but she continues to talk to him knowing how it makes me feel. She doesn't get help (counseling) nor does she try to even show me any type of commitment or love of any sort. I've tried everything from giving her space, to telling her how much I care, sending flowers, writing notes, everything to show her that I love her and want to help her.

She is a stay at home mom and seperation is difficult, so we are living in the same home together. My wife has told me that since our son has been born she has felt "alone". She also says to me that she is depressed. She doesn't sleep, has started chain smoking. and wants to go out and have some "freedom" with her friends. Since the affair started she has gone out with her friend drinking 3 times and not come home saying that her friend lives 45 minutes away and that for her to drive home after drinking wouldn't be safe. She also uncorked on me this weekend that she wants to go out New Year's Eve with her friend while I stay home with our son. 

I just don't know what to do. I called my lawyer to discuss my legal options and divorce. I love my wife and family soo much but I just can't take it. Last night we were talking and my wife started to cry and say that she doesn't want a divorce and it makes me really sad, but I feel like she is just not trying and I don't know how long to wait for her to figure things out. I understand that my wife has felt alone since our son has been born. He has taken up a lot of our time and we really haven't had much time together since he has been born. But now after all of this has happened I'm trying even harder to connect with my wife, but no response. 

I just feel upset, hurt, betrayed and with no progress after 3 months I just don't know how long to wait.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

If she admits to you that she feels depressed and does not want a divorce, I would suggest individual counseling for her. Even if she's avoided that in the past, I'd try bringing it up again. She may be suffering post-partem depression and not even know it. Even if she is not interested in medication, just talking to someone about these feelings can really help.


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## TheHogweed (Nov 18, 2008)

Yes, encourage her to do counselling alone or with you .. it might be of help.

Good luck.... hope both of you able to resolve it.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

She has gone to invidual counseling but after a couple sessions she told me that her counselor told her that "sometimes people just fall out of love" and basically that she needs to make a decision to move on. My counselor tells me the exact opposite that divorce should always be the last option and that people can work on things and get back what they lost.

Last night I had a 2 hour conversation with her. She tells me that there is no way her and the other guy could ever be together because he lives in Cleveland and we live in Pennsylvania. He has children and would never leave them, and she would never leave our son to live with him.

Yet, she told me last night that during their conversation he actually asked her to move out to Cleveland to be with him. My wife if very vunerable because she has been feeling down about our marriage for a while and never expressed to me how low she was feeling. Since our son was born he has really been the focus or our lives and we've not tended to our relationship enough.

My wife reached out to this other guy on facebook and he very early on in their conversations expressed his "love" for her and the ball has just kept rolling since. 

I just don't know how much longer I can live in the same house with her knowing this is still going on. She says she is in love with this other guy, I just don't believe it. I think my wife is depressed and emotionally unbalanced right now. This is why it is hard for me to divorce because I feel that she really doesn't know what she's doing right now and will eventually realize it after it's too late. Seperation is impossible because she is a stay at home mom and honestly why should we seperate which would result in her being able to live out her fantasy with this other guy. I just don't think that is fair to me. 

I've asked her to stop talking to him. She said that she would feel even more depressed and just thinking about it makes her feel sick. I told her that if she can't stop talking with him and focus on herself and then our marriage that I cannot continue to be with her and we certainly cannot live in the same house. I told her that although I still love her very much that I will contact my lawyer and begin divorce filings. Is this unreasonable? I just don't know what else to do. I've been going to counseling trying to figure out how to fix our situation, but I can't do it by myself and I certainly can't do it while she continues to be involved with another man. I seriously have tried everything, but it's been over 3 months. I've given her space, I've shown her that I care, I've tried to reason with her, I've offered counseling, my parents have offered support to her, nothing seems to work.

I'm just emotionally exhausted but it's just really hard because I love her so much. My wife and family mean everything to me and I just can't understand why she is doing this and can't see that her relationship with this other guy is not real.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Since your respective counselors are at loggerhead in their recommendations I would suggest joint counseling. I will say that for her to return to the marriage she must stop all contact with him. He is the aggressor in trying to get her to move to him. He is hijacking your marriage. Be firm with your wife but be supportive. If she absolutely refuses to end the relationship you should be prepared to end the marriage. Try reading “Love must be Tough” by Dobson. It can help you get your mind in the right frame to deal with the emotional aspects of this.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I have tried the joint counseling route and she just isn't receptive. She also told me last night that she doesn't think she can stop talking to him and doesn't want to. 

I really just can't believe my wife would be soo blind to what is going on. My counselor believes she has Borderline Personality Disorder as well. She went with me one time to a counseling session and started to flip out becuase she said that my counselor and I were ganging up on her, which was not the case.

I've been reading "The Road Less Traveled" by Peck. I continue to go to individual counseling. Honestly though I am just destroyed by all of this. I'm really hurt by what has happened and I feel completely powerless as far as helping my wife. I know that at some point you have to throw in the towel and I guess I'm at that point. I just know that she is confused and is thinking emotionally rather than logically. She is also depressed and has started bad habits like smoking. She is just a complete mess and there is nothing I can do to help her because she refuses to want help. 

I'm basically watching my marriage and someone I care for more than anything crumble in front of me and I cannot do anything to stop it. I know she has to help herself but it just hurts so bad to see this and know she is making the wrong decision.


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## tarheel68 (Sep 17, 2008)

sorry to hear all you are going through . About the only thing you can do to help her is be supportive and hope she comes around . My wife and i went through something similar and after I explained to her that i would not stand for "sharing" her 
and we talked about what the future held if she continued her actions , she came around . Sometimes you have to let the one you love hit "bottom " so they can look up and realize how their actions are affecting everyone else.


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## Hurting08 (Oct 9, 2008)

mclovin said:


> I have tried the joint counseling route and she just isn't receptive. She also told me last night that she doesn't think she can stop talking to him and doesn't want to.
> 
> I really just can't believe my wife would be soo blind to what is going on.
> 
> ...



Wow. Take out a few lines and that is exactly what I am feeling right now. I just wish there was something I could do other than stand back and wait.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I'll tell you what the biggest problem that I've realized. I posted this post because I am hurt because my wife started to talk to another person. 

I was talking and emailing my wife yesterday and realized something. The other guy part is not the biggest problem I'm facing right now. I mean, yes it's hurtful and sucks, but the reality is that I'm not doing anything to really help the situation by (1) letting my wife have room to figure things out (2) focus on what caused her to talk to someone else rather than me (3) focus on what went wrong with our relationship.

I've been really emotional and I hope my wife understands that because she means everything to me and it hurts me because I should have been there for her and really I wasn't. 

Trying to "lay down the law" or force my wife to do something isn't going to really make this situation any better. All I can do is try to be a better person to her. I can try to understand and listen when she is ready to talk. I haven't done that because I've been firing off all kinds of advice and commentary at her instead of just listening and trying to understand. 

Maybe this doesn't make sense to many of you but I think when I originally posted I still wasn't being clear on what was going on, what my part was and so forth. I appreciate your responses but I think that in the end this is the best way to try and save our marriage. 

I love my wife and I just need to let her try to work some of these issues out without having me destroy her every second with negative comments and blame. I'm part of the reason this has happened.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

mclovin said:


> I'll tell you what the biggest problem that I've realized. I posted this post because I am hurt because my wife started to talk to another person.
> 
> I was talking and emailing my wife yesterday and realized something. The other guy part is not the biggest problem I'm facing right now. I mean, yes it's hurtful and sucks, but the reality is that I'm not doing anything to really help the situation by (1) letting my wife have room to figure things out (2) focus on what caused her to talk to someone else rather than me (3) focus on what went wrong with our relationship.
> 
> I love my wife and I just need to let her try to work some of these issues out without having me destroy her every second with negative comments and blame. I'm part of the reason this has happened.


okay, but for your plan to be effective, she really does need to start "no contact" with this guy.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

If I force her to not contact him she will hate me more. I really don't believe my wife has any intentions with him. He is in Irag and lives in another state. If right now this is what she feels she needs then I can tell her that it hurts me and she has admitted that she thinks it is wrong. I can only show her respect and love. She ultimately must make the decision, not me.

I know this probably sounds crazy but I believe it's the right thing to do. My wife is lost right now and is definitely torn. I just have to do this because I love my wife. 

I know I'm going to get the comments about being a pushover but I just now my wife and now the situation and I need to do this because I love her.


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## Hurting08 (Oct 9, 2008)

It sucks, but that's not always a bad approach. Hopefully she will come around.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

nothing at all wrong with giving respect and love.

good luck.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

That's why I married her because I respect and love her and I feel that I have to do that now. I mean it hurts me because she talks to him but it hurts me more that she was unhappy and felt lonely and I was not there for her. That's what caused this to happen.

I appreciate your comments. One day at a time.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

mclovin said:


> She has gone to individual counseling but after a couple sessions she told me that her counselor told her that "sometimes people just fall out of love" and basically that she needs to make a decision to move on.


her counselor is lazy, letting herself become "the path of least resistance." wonder what it's like taking someones money and giving that kind of advice? so does this counselor believe that the job is done after he/she gives her that advice. she should not have to pay that counselor one more penny.

draconis has a pretty good take on divorce. so does the bible. maybe i'm outta line with you mentioning either reference. if so, sorry. i'd sure like to see a counselor come on this forum and make that statement and put their name to it for this circumstance. just one. but they wouldn't. and won't. because it's crap.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Another difficult weekend. In addition to everything that is going on I had the stomach flu. Yipee! 

My wife's mother continues to make the situation worse and worse. She keeps doing things to stress out my wife more and more. It's amazing. Her mother does nothing to really help her and the only thing she does do is stress her out and make things worse. 

My wife is just really up and down and I'm worried about her. She is just very depressed. She hasn't really shown any change towards me but I guess I don't see how she could because she's just so depressed. She still isn't sleeping more than a couple hours a night. She still doesn't eat very well. Last night when I was talking to her she just looked so sad. I try to tell her how much I love her and that she will be ok, but it's not working. Why wouldn't her counselor see this and realize that she is really depressed and do something.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

mclovin said:


> My wife is just really up and down and I'm worried about her. She is just very depressed. She hasn't really shown any change towards me but I guess I don't see how she could because she's just so depressed. She still isn't sleeping more than a couple hours a night. She still doesn't eat very well. Last night when I was talking to her she just looked so sad. I try to tell her how much I love her and that she will be ok, but it's not working. Why wouldn't her counselor see this and realize that she is really depressed and do something.


sorry to say, the counselor frankly may not be equipped to deal with her depression. if it's an imbalance in her brain, it may very well need pharmaceutical treatment. ask her to schedule with your family doc. ask her to ask about a depression screening. it's about 12 questions that your doc will ask her. it'll give him a pretty good idea which direction to go.

i hate to sound like a pill pusher, because i'm not. but sometimes that is what is called for.


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## sameboat (Dec 12, 2008)

This sounds all too familiar to me, with the exception of a few things. We’ve been married for 10 years, a year ago she told me she no longer loved me, we went threw 3 months of hell. I found out about and emotional affair which she denied then down played then finally admitted, it was horrible, she to did not want to end it because they had become friends too. Finally we started counseling and it worked pretty good, we seemed to be more honest and communicate better at the time with someone mediating the discussions. After months of counseling we set out to do it on our own, it’s worked good until recently when I found out she’s been sort of up and down on the ‘In Love’ thing, we are now official back in hell. My point is it sucks but you have to try an hang in, don’t be too clingy or needy and you must get marriage counseling, try Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy. It’s been a year for me and may a couple more before I know either way. Some people may think you crazy but everyone has there own limits, people who gave up to early may have been able to repair the marriage and go on to be even better but they’ll never know now. Good Luck to you.


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## bo0 (Dec 12, 2008)

Seems like a very hard situation. I hope you can figure out what is best for you and your family.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks for the advice. My wife wants to seperate and at this point it is probably the best thing. I believe we both need space and time away from each other. I just don't believe she really understands what she wants or her feelings. She mentioned to me lately that I have a communication problem and many times seems to blame me for a lot of stuff. She really doesn't take any responsibility for having a communication problem herself. She told me also that she has gone from indifference to borderline hating me. This is what baffles me because it's not like I'm some kind of mean monster to her. I try to reach out to her or support her. At times I do get frustrated, but after all that has happened I don't know how anyone would not be frustrated. She is just really all over the place and it just is hard to deal with right now.

She got upset with me yesterday because I told her (a few days ahead of time) that I wanted to go out after work. On the day I was going out she asked me where I was going and what I was doing. I told her that I wasn't sure and I don't know why she would want to know since she doesn't care about me. She got po'd. She feels that she tells me where she is when she goes out, but I never broke trust like she did. Plus when she goes out she sees a friend that lives 45 minutes away and stays overnight. She's done this 4 or 5 times, which I can't believe she would think is ok after all that is happened. I've never complained or given her crap about it but yet I want to go out and have a drink and just some time to myself and she wants to know what I'm doing. It's just odd to me.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mclovin said:


> but yet I want to go out and have a drink and just some time to myself and she wants to know what I'm doing. It's just odd to me.


It shows that you could have her all over you if you could become sensitive enough to read the signs.

Let's just assume your wife is correct for a moment... How good are your communication skills? By that I mean, how well do you listen, and understand?


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm about the most sensitive guy around. Believe me. I'm not saying I'm the king of communicating, but I'm certainly not horrible. It is hard to understand what she wants or is saying when her mood and thoughts swing dratically from day to day. 

I have listened to her. I have sympathized with her. I have tried to understand her mindset. I have offered support. I have offered counseling. I have tried to compromise. About the only thing I haven't done is thrown in the towel. Communication, understanding and effort is a two person deal. 

Again, there have been many times throughout this ordeal that I wish I would have said or acted differently. I have reflected on those situations and apologized or tried to explain my thoughts. THe problem is that I feel like I'm the one who is trying and in our relationship I've always been the one to admit fault or apologize, while my wife never apologizes or believes she is wrong. How is it that I am always wrong and she is always right. It's seriously been frustrating.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Mclovin,

"She feels that she tells me where she is when she goes out, but I never broke trust like she did. Plus when she goes out she sees a friend that lives 45 minutes away and stays overnight. She's done this 4 or 5 times, which I can't believe she would think is ok after all that is happened. I've never complained or given her crap about it but yet I want to go out and have a drink and just some time to myself and she wants to know what I'm doing. It's just odd to me."

To me, this obviously shows that the worm is turning. You have been the one who is worried about your marriage. I think its her turn. Your wife needs a complete shock to the conscience. Go out and stay out all night (but don't cheat liker her) when you know she is going to be home alone. When she calls you don't answer. When you roll in at 6:00 am tell her "oh I thought you were going to another sleep over'. It seems like you have tried everything else. The whole reason she is treating you this way is because like with a dog, you have reinforced the negative behavior by allowing it. You need to look at this from a different perspective. Look at what she is doing like it is hurting her (as in dog training) . If you love her you cannot allow her to continue with this behavior. This means that you cannot think about your pain. You need to consider what is best for her. You must change the dynamic in your marriage or leave her. It may cause you initial heartache (if she leaves) but at least you will find out if there is a chance. Hell she might be wanting you to cowboy up and show her that she can no longer behave like this. What do you have to lose. I look at it like having a bad tooth. You can sit there and go through the pain of negligence, hoping the pain will stop. Or you can remove it and begin to heal. Good luck


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mclovin said:


> How is it that I am always wrong and she is always right. It's seriously been frustrating.


Because for all your sensitivity, you have not managed to understand her, and get a clear picture of what behaviours of yours, illicit what behaviours from her. Once you master this, you can almost dial up any response you like. 

OK, so I did not say how long it takes to learn to do that...


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## stylesp (Dec 14, 2008)

iam very sorry to hear what your going thru. I think the best thing you can do, is put your foot down. And lay it out all in the table. This is waht happened, you tell her u love her, and want to work on the marriage. In order for that to happen, you list wat she has to do. If she doesent want to, do waht she can to save the marriage, and she still wants to talk to this guy. Then iam sorry to say but your marriage will never work, she will end up hurting u more. The worst thing for a man to here is that his wife, is in love with another man. He got her emotionally. Thats worse then actually if she just had sex with a random guy.


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## stylesp (Dec 14, 2008)

You need to tell her to move out, or you move out. Trust me people dont realize how good a person is until then lose them. Like a good friend once told me. "You cant force someone to love you, or to think the way you do"! If she wants to talk to this guy, and you let it happen, then she will talk to him all she wants. The more and more she talks to him, the less chance you have of saving your marriage. Feelings and emotions are very dangerous. Once you have feelings for someone , it builds up. Dont let her tell you that she will feel worse, if she dont talk to him. She knows exactly waht she's doing. She wants her cake and eat it to. She has everthing to lose. You said she is a stay at home mom. Which means she doesent have an income. So it makes it harder for her to pick up and leave. Not only that if u divorce er, u will most likelly , keep the child, because your the only one thats working and is able to support your child.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Mclovin,

Stylesp is right. Another take on leaving is this. You remove yourself as the cause of her problem. Then she is stuck with what she has done and will have no one to blame. You need to remember this regarding your wife. Where ever she goes there she is. When you're not around and the interloper is not around she will be forced to deal with her problem. She needs to hit rock bottom. Don't fund her party outings don't give her any money. Withdraw all support, physical and emotional. Take the baby if you can. Speak to her only about finance and your child. Let her look in the mirror and see what she has become. Its called tough love. Good luck our prayers are with you.

We all have a stake in each others marriages.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice and support. Mark Twain, I appreciate your comments, but honestly we are on different planets. My goal is not to illicit behaviors that suit me. I'm not a puppet master here. My goal is to have a healthy and fullfilling relationship, which is not happening now because my wife is seriously troubled and unbalanced. I mean, how do you talk or reason with someone that is acting completely irrationally.

To give you an idea, this weekend my wife said the following:
1. I wish I were dead. The only reason I haven't killed myself is because of our son.
2. Do you think you should just take are son? Why. Because he obviously loves you more and is more stable with your family.

Now hearing these things I'm completely upset. This is my wife, someone I really care for and love. She obviously is depressed and feeling horribly. I know that this is her problem, but I'm human and still feel bad for her. I basically spent last night just crying about t his situation. My wife got a part time job and when she left I just started to break down. I try to hold it in, but I'm just emotionally drained. This is month 4 of this ordeal and we are still living together. I really need to be away from my wife for many reasons. I need my son to be secure which means that he stays with me until she gets through whatever is troubling her.

I offered these solutions to her. Hopefully she will think it through and begin the process to move out. I just think space and time away from me and my son is what is needed. I don't hope for us to stay together at this point. I just need some peace because I feel at times like I"m going to crack.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I can imagine what you are going through. My wife is bi-polar and suffers from depression. For the first 10 years of our marriage (we're about to hit 29) I thought it was natural for the wife to be in bed crying every other week, while I sat at the end of the bed wondering what to do. This is not good for your child and can effect him later in life (issues with detachment and anger). As much as you obviously love your wife, your chief concern must be for your little one. You need to be away from the situation so you can stabilize. Your wife is already standing up and rocking the boat as you both go down the rapids. The last thing you or her needs is for you to be rocking it to. You need a break if only to gain some perspective. We're pulling for you.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

It's just very hard. Today I look at a picture of my wife at my desk and I just feel sad and emotional. Everytime I feel like I am ok and that I have to let go and let my wife just go I have moments like today. I don't know why I feel this way because my wife has been really horrible to me througout this ordeal. I just really care for my wife, but I know what people are saying about focusing on my son and me right now. 

I just think about going home tonight and it should be happy and something to look forward to. Instead I go home to a wife that says she doesn't love me and stress about what is going to happen. I just sometimes can't even believe this is happening to me.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You both seem to be stuck in this situation. Something has to give. Since you are the only rational decision maker its up to you. If your wife is threatening suicide, have her committed for evaluation. If you think that it was manipulation. consider leaving again.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm not sure what she is doing. Maybe it is manipulation or something else. It's just some of the things she says are out of left field. One day she seems fine and the next different. 

Last night I talked with her and a friend of mine is willing to allow her to live in their vacant home until it is sold. My wife is going to move out in January, if all goes well. She'll be with our son during the day (as is the case now) and he will stay with me at night. That is how our son's schedule has been and I told her that I think he should be unaffected by our seperation and she seemed to agree. 

Then before she went to her part time job she said to me "you think something is wrong with me don't you" to which I didn't answer her. She then said "you know I would never purposely hurt our son". That comment made me a little nervous. Maybe I'm over analyzing what she says but the word "purposely" implies that she may do something to hurt him without wanting to. Am I reading to much into it? I just can't wait to have some peace and have her living elsewhere.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

"you know I would never purposely hurt our son". That comment made me a little nervous.

You know your wife better then anyone but I think she was speaking emotionally hurt him. Of course she is completely self deceived. She doesn't think what she is doing or done "hurts our son"

Its good to hear that she has found somewhere to stay. In this real estate market it could be a spell before it is sold. I would agree with you that it will be better when she leaves. At that point I believe she will see what she has done. She obviously continues to care what you think about her. For your part you must stay strong, aloof, and continue to withhold all affection and support for her. The nights of isolation will give her time to think. This will work in your favor. 

THIS NEXT PART IS VERY IMPORTANT! One thing you must be adamant and non-negotiable on. She is not allowed to go out partying the nights that she will be caring for your son the next day or leave to go anywhere without first letting you know. If she does it once you will immediately set up day care for your son elsewhere. Tell her that you don't want her hung over or exhausted while your boy is with her. This limitation will serve you well in breaking the party and negative friend habit. Hopefully she will not have a computer to carry on her EA with.

I would also arrange to be apart from her on Christmas at least a good part of the day. Take your son to visit relatives where she will be ashamed to go (if possible). Tell her she is welcome to come though. Hopefully she will be to uncomfortable to take you up on your offer. She needs to see how her future Christmases will be. Do not try to make her emotionally comfortable with this Christmas. This one must be different then previous (happy) holidays you have had together.

Your wife has impressed me as making completely emotional decisions based on whatever she is feeling at that moment. This can be a great benefit to you. Because you can manipulate those emotions. Not to cause her pain, though they may. But to make her think about her future life alone. I know you have the best interests of her and your son at heart. That is why you must be strong and have a firm hand with her (and yourself) while she is in this state. I eagerly await further updates. Good luck


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I agree with what you are saying. She ia upset because on Christmas Even we always go to my parents and this year she is uncomfortable going and will miss out on our son opening presents. Again, this is her issue and wouldn't be an issue if she didn't act selfish and hurtful.

She will have a computer though during her time alone and she asked to have her cell phone transferred to her name during the seperation (it's in my name currently). Basically she wants it transferred so she can talk to this other guy and me not know about it. He comes back from Iraq in February so I'm sure it will be a talk a thon between them. Last night she also said that she "doesn't want to break up our family". This is what I mean by saying one thing and doing the other. She doesn't want to break up the family, but wants the cell phone in her name so I can't see her talking to the other guy. 

I would agree with the action on emotion part. My counselor has said the same thing about my wife. I just can't wait to be away from her. I don't hold my breath that this will change her or make her think because I just believe she is that screwed up and selfish. If anything I could see her realizing that life without responsibility is good and just running off or something.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

One other thought on Christmas. The alternative to you going to your relatives is to invite them there. Let the Mrs. Come early for opening presents but tell her that you have invited the extended family to come over for Christmas dinner and that she is welcome to stay. They'll be here at 10:00 to start preparing the dinner (turkeys take a long time to cook). Again her shame may force her to leave. If she sqawks tell her that it would be selfish and unfair to your son and family to withhold the joy it would bring them. Let your family know what your doing so they will be more likely to follow your lead. This way might actually work better. Because you are not forcing her to be alone on Christmas. She will be making that choice herself. 

Another point. When she is away from you and your son. She needs to be told what she is missing. Not that you miss her. But the cute things he did with you while she wasn't around. Do this a lot. If she asks you why are you telling her this stuff. Tell her its because she is still his mom and she needs to know what is going on in his life. Don't be afraid to also tell her when he gets a little boo boo. A bump or skinned knee. Tell her that he cried for a minute but then felt all better. She will miss the nurturing part of her role. She must learn to hate the hole she has created in her life.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm just sticking with the tradition of going to my parents. I offered for her to come and she feels uncomfortable so that's that.

She just got a pt job and when I'm with my son I do make it a point to tell her about what we did and how much fun he had. The one day that's what prompted her to say "maybe he'd be better off with you because he (our son) is more comfortable with you and your family." My wife has some type of inferiority thing going because she always thinks my son loves me more or wants to be with me more. Honestly he does favor me more, which is odd since my wife is with him all day. I can tell that she does get upset, in fact last night she asked if our son asks for her when she is gone, and he doesn't. 

I don't want to hurt my wife and won't purposely "pour it on" about what we did, but if she asks or if we are talking about him I will tell her.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Tell her you will be happy to cancel her phone but that she will have to set up her own account. You will not be a party to her affair.

You have limited time till the interloper returns. As I recall you said that he lives in another state. Under no circumstances allow her to take your son out of state. You will need to get a gps for her car to insure this.

Before he returns if it looks like she may be thinking of going to see him (and you will need to set this up before hand), you must be prepared to immediately serve her with divorce papers that include custody of your son. To protect yourself from her taking your son with her. You must completely blindside her with this. This may break her when she finally has to choose.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Mclovin,

You may wonder why I seem a little emphatic about your position. Its because my mother did the same thing that your wife is doing. Forgive me if I get too personal. I just know how it effected (and still does to this day) me. And hate to see this happening to any family.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

He lives in another state but as part of his military duty he will be stationed about 2 hours from where we live. I mean it would seem that wanting to put the phone in her name is due to her wanting to have privacy and that's because she plans on talking to him.

I'm with you about the impact on our son. I just can't understand why she is soo unhappy. Well, I guess I do understand. She's not happy with herself and has some issues. Those issues are hers.

My problem is that although we are seperating, which is good for me, I am still hurt by her cheating on me with this other guy. To think that now she can cheat without me knowing makes me not want to be with her even more. It's like she can "try out" this relationship with the other guy and if it doesn't work then she has me as the fallback. That's kinda how I feel.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Mclovin,

There is another aspect to this. His affair with your wife is against the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice). It is illegal for him to have an adulterous affair. This is a punishable offense. If I were you I would research this. Find out who the interloper is and contact his commanding officer. He may downplay it. But if you conveyed to him that if he did not order the immediate end to this affair. That you will RAISE A MAJOR STINK. And that this could effect HIS career if he fails to act. Have him notify the commanding officer of the base he is being transferred to or better yet contact him yourself and let him know what he is getting into. The scenario could play out like this. GPS her car. Key log her computer. Find out where they are going to meet. Contact the military police. They will arrest him. This is hardball. And you will have to decide if she is worth it. But it can be done.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

There is also a good chance that to avoid this situation they could transfer him to another base somewhere further away


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

How would I even file such an action. I'm not even sure what unit he is in. He is an army reservist and after February he will be stationed in the U.S. for a year or so.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You have to find out who the soldier is by any means necessary

In the vast majority of cases, if a commanding officer receives information that a member is, or might be, involved in an adulterous affair, the commander attempts to resolve the situation by counseling the member. In some cases, the counseling is accompanied by a legal order to desist in any adulterous affair. If the member then complies, that's usually the end of the matter. Recall the Lt. Kelly Flynn case from page 1 of this article. The First Sergeant and commander tried to resolve the situation with a counseling and an order to terminate the relationship. Had Lt. Flynn complied, she might be a senior officer in the Air Force to today. But, she disobeyed the order, violating Article 90 of the UCMJ, then lied about it, in violation of Article 107. 

If you can get the commander to Issue a legal order to desist and he sees your wife again, Bingo. He's busted.

This will require you do some digging. My concern is that you reporting him might drive a wedge further between you and your wife. That is why I would employ, if possible a close family member, say her father or your father or a brother. Have any been in the military?

You may opt to merely explain to your wife that adultery is a punishable offense and that he could be court marshaled for it. 

Can you find out who this man is?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

My boss is ex army. (Captain). He said you need to contact the commanding officer of the base he is moving to. You will need his information. He can be ordered to cease contact. You may have as much luck trying to scare your wife with this. Get a copy of UCMJ on line, high light the part on adultery. And tell her you have contacted the base commander. Focus on the punishment for it. It's in there. I think your wife had post partum depression that was not dealt with effectively.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I read the code though and it says that there has to be proof of sexual contact. They never have had sexual contact, it's all been over the phone or by text message.

I was looking at her cell phone record because she was acting upset this weekend. She went out again on Saturday with her girlfriend for her friend's birthday and stayed overnight. Her girlfriend lives about 45 minutes away. I looked at the phone record and saw this guy called her from his cell number rather than a calling card. When I said something to my wife she said that he is now at a base that he can use his cell number. I just don't believe it. I think that maybe he is back home now and she saw him this weekend.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

GPS and VAR her car. If you don't you will never know until it is to late. Yes they will have had to have sex. Do you know a way to stop them from doing that? Its time to cut bait or fish. Why won't you find out for sure so you can make a rational decision as to R or D?


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

The latest bomb shell hit this weekend. My wife told me that the other guy, who lives in another state mentioned that he would leave his two children behind to take a military position near where we live so he could be with her. Now before my wife told me that this guy is such a "great father" and that he would never leave his kids. Now that he is saying he will leave his children, my wife tells me that since he is in the military his children are used to not seeing him because that's the "military life". She said that he would still visit them once a month. I'm just in complete amazement. I tried to explain to my wife that he (a) is not a good father (b) doesn't value children and (c) would probably not want to have our son in the picture in his relationship with her. She refuses to see this even though it is clear this guy is a complete idiot. Then after talking about this latest bunch of crap, she tries to reason with me by saying that he is a good person and that I don't know him and I would change my mind if I met him. What??? She also kicked me this weekend while I was laying with my son in bed. She mentioned killing herself by running the car with the garage door closed and mentioned just driving off and never coming back. Yet when I tell her to just leave to be with this guy and let my son be with me, she says that she would never leave our son. 

Does any of this make sense to anyone out there? I think my wife is really really troubled in some way. When I say she is depressed she says it's because she is in an unhappy marriage. Her behavior just continues to be all over the place. The other day when I offered the idea of going out on a date she immediately responded no, but then a few hours later asked me if I thought going out together would help. I found a post on a message board from her asking if other women felt disconnected from their husbands after having a child and if they got their feelings back. It's like on one end she wants out and wants to be with this guy, for what reason I have no idea. Then on the other end she is trying to find out if she could get feeling back for me and have a happy marriage.

I have arranged a place for my wife to stay so we can seperate, which is what she has been asking for the last month or so. Now that I have something setup my wife tells me she doesn't know if that is a good idea because she will be alone in a place that is not really hers and being alone is what made her depressed in the first place. It's like I can't win.

Do I just file for divorce and go through a custody battle with her? Do I stick it out and try to help her even though after 4 months she still doesn't get it and hasn't tried to change or work on our marriage? I see my son and right now the only reason why I haven't filed is because of him. I just don't know how much longer I can take this and at some point I guess I have to go down the divorce road and fight for my son. I know after reading all of these posts probably many of you are wondering why I haven't already. I wish I could answer, I just somehow still care for my wife and love my family.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Good to hear from you mclovin, She must move out first. The whole point is she needs to be brought to a crisis. She needs to know that you are pulling away from her not visa versa. When she says she doesn't want to move and be alone in a place that is not hers. Tell her tough **** and "welcome to the world of the adulterous breakdown of marriage". Refresh my memory has she even met this a$$hole yet? She threatens suicide for one reason. So you will care for her until this a$$hole comes home to care for her. I got a question to ask you. Once this guy meets your wife and finds out (excuse me for this) what a friggin basket case she is. Do you think he'll stick around? He has made a bunch of promises to this dream girl. When he gets a gut check he could be on the first train out of town.

When she says:

Does any of this make sense to anyone out there? I think my wife is really really troubled in some way. When I say she is depressed she says it's because she is in an unhappy marriage.

Dude you are in the unhappy marriage. She is a cake eater.

Move her out. Into the place. You need to bring this to a head.

You may want to file divorce papers. She needs to have no net.
Her only option has to be $hit or get off the pot. In her frame of mind she would never get custody. Time for you to marshal your forces and press the issue.

Oh and the next time she threatens suicide. Tell that on top of everything else she has done to you and your son up to now that suicide would be another example of just how incredibly selfish she is.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks dude. I understand what you are saying. I told her that the next time she thinks about suicide to just go through with it. She has met this guy once, but did not have sex with him. 

This guy just keeps filling her up with promises and she buys right into them. Then she makes excuses for his behavior. I mean, what kind of person would leave their children. Yet she makes excuses that because he is in the military that his children don't really know him anyway. Yet he is just a reservist and has not been deployed for several years so he's been around his kids. I've found so much out about this guy. He was involved in two ambulance chaser lawsuits, which both got dismissed. Since he left the army he has bounced to two jobs, now he wants to re-enlise because he obviously can't handle life in the civilian world. He just got divorced and back in June his wife hit him in the head with a lamp and he had her jailed, fined, and she is now on probation. He is in Iraq now and his wife is living in his house with her boyfriend that she left him for. Now my wife knows all of these facts and the recent bull that he will leave his children and she still thinks he is a gem and wants to be with him.

Today I will have the place setup for her to seperate. I'm hoping that in the next couple weeks she can move out. He comes back in February so I'm betting that the head with pop then. Maybe she'll just run-off with him and let my son and I alone. She just has no concept of reality right now. I mean she stays out until 2am on Saturday night and thinks that is just ok after all that has happened. I would never stay out like that. If I go out, which is not often I'm back home to put my son to bed. When she goes out she doesn't call to check on him or wish him good night. Nothing. She is just completely selfish in so many ways. Part of me just doesn't want to be with her anymore because she has always been selfish. I've always given and given and she is just not that way.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I think another reason to try to bring this to a head is that the time is short till this guy gets here. If they meet she will feel obligated to consummate before she even knows anything about him. Or if they will even be together. If it doesn't work out, there will be even more baggage and crap to deal with. She needs to feel what it will be like with out you to care for and love her. Hell if you need to, you move. That way she will have no choice but to look at herself......alone.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Man this guy is a complete loser. You should show her pictures of what military housing looks like and what kinda trailer trash life she can expect. I'll bet you have pretty much spoiled her and given her everything. This guy is a taker and I'll bet he's dead broke too. If he goes back in the service he won't be with her anyways. 

It sounds like you have got a lot of information on this guy. You may want to get the divorce papers going so you can show her that the day she meets this guy is the day you file for divorce. No turning back.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Today she called me because she wanted to know if I talked to my friend about setting up the house for her to live in while we seperate. I have a friend that moved out of their house and it's vacant. We'll just have to pay for utilities so my wife can stay there while we are seperated. Now over the weekend she didn't necessarily want to seperate but now today again she is asking if I talked to my friend about the house. 

This guy is a complete loser.  I'm a pretty good detective, but just listening her talk about him I am amazed that she can't see he's a goofball to. Once I get her move-out situated I am going to meet with my lawyer to really get all the information together. I just think that at this point she eventually is going to do something and I guess I have to stop trying to reason with her or support her and start trying to figure out what is best for my son and I. It's a hard decision but for four months I've been trying to get through to her. When I asked her to stop talking to him back in September she just continued regardless of how much it hurt me. Then she did stop talking to him but resorted to chatting online with him. He's been in Iraq and somehow they still talk which just amazes me. She just doesn't care and at this point it's clear. 

I just haven't really come to grips with it but once she is gone I think I'll have more time to just really clear my mind, rest a easier and make the right decision.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Have you taken her name off your accounts? Be careful she may try to get credit cards. 

When this is done you will be able to look in the mirror and say that you did everything possible to save your marriage. I personally think if she does go with him, that she will be back on your door step within 6 months. Hey if this jerk decides to move in with your wife. I hope you friend will turn them out. How much would that suck. You set up a place for your wife and this a$$hole moves in.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I still think you should look at the line in the sand regarding filing for divorce as if she meets this guy. 

Tell her the day you meet him I will file for divorce and full custody of our son.


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## theirishdubliner (Dec 30, 2008)

Mate my heart goes out to you and I for one Admire you for you persistence and your top of the pops for who you are for wanting to keep your wife and to keep your marriage going.

To be honest, I found this forum to try and get my own head straight with my problems with my wife. Your story is so very similar to mine.

Thought everything was going good between us. Last December 2007. I will summarize my sutitation for you. 

She was caught in an emotional affair with her first boyfriend when she was 13. She was caught and I was devastated BUT it was the kick in the arse I needed to be a better than I already was husband. I swear, I was glad that it happened because it made me realize how much I loved and cared for her and how as a stay at home mum I did not appreciate or give her enough of my time.

I executed a plan to show my Wife of 6 years that she look no further than me. I knew in my heart of hearts that she did not stop but I could not prove it. I kept going and then finally in Feb 14th 2008, she got caught again. She used her friends myspace account to keep in touch with this Army Mother-Fcuker. 

To say I was devestated was an understatement. To make matters worst I live in the Sates but I am from Europe. I had no support, fook all.... family and friends over the phone but you get a pain in your arse talking about your crap over the phone 4000 miles away.

I could not believe it. It was like she had be over a barrel mate. I feel I am a lot like you mate, a soft touch, a sensitive soul, will always put himself last for his loved ones and she simply took advantage of me.

I could not get over that second episode. I knew she was doing something and she looked into my eyes in the weeks after Christmas and simply lied to me. I cried like a baby and she lied to me. She manipulated me and her friend for you own gain.

Now, I love my wife, but after Feb 14th 2008, how could I ever respect her simply for the disregard she showed for her Husband and our Two Children.

I told my wife all's I ever wanted for her is to be happy. If this Army Prick in Iraq is the one for you, go be with him, go see if the grass is greener. It will hurt but not as much if your caught again. She assured me that is not what she wanted. How could I ever believe a word that came out of her mouth? Trust was simply broken at that point.

The pain I feel and still feel is something I would not wish on my worst enemy. Serious.

Months went by and I was withdrawn, I was still there with her but I could not sleep, eat, I lost 30lbs and was so fooking worried by what she was up to I lost the plot. I was controlling, wanted to know her every move and really laid down the law which was so very foreign to me. I simply did not like who I had become and felt so fooking guilty because of it and I had to remind myself that, yes you had a part to play in the initial part of the affair but I know in my heart of hearts that I tried my best once I found out to put things right. She choose to be fooking selfish and do what she wanted to do. Some people are just like that.

Moving on to June 2008, this Class A Army prick came back to the States from Iraq. He was way up north and we way down south. Its amazing what Intuition will do for you. I ignored mine for so long believing she was not up to anything. That's the worst thing for me mate, it not listening to that inner voice that raises red flags... 

Anyway, back to June 2008, I caught her at her mothers house just on an inside wim. She said something to me over the phone that Morning that just made me tick. I went down to her mothers house and found her with a phone card talking to this fooking wank bag army piss ant and that was it for me. Man my world dropped. I got access to her 3rd myspace account and the reading was unreal. The **** she was saying. he had her hooked big time.

Again she told me its over. Again, I don't think any amount of counciling will regain Trust for her again. I was livid. 

At that point I was finished with her. I did not care how much I loved her, if I could not trust her how could she be my wife.

We are still together as a family unit and she tells me she wants to make this work. I don't know if she has stopped talking to this guy or not because even though I care and it hurts to think that she still is, I don't let her know that. 

I called this prick up several times, emailed him and her and told him that he is welcome to her, come by and pick her up anytime and he can deal with her selfish ass. Go on have her.

Man she was pissed big time, but what did she expect. I love my wife mate, but the year she has put me through, as far as she is concerned I am only here because I have no where to go. 4000 miles away from home as I said with two kids.

This Christmas just passed was very hard for me, it just brought everything back and the anger was swelling inside of me and we had several fights over the last week. I have turned into an absolute ******* of the biggest proportions especailly in the last 6 months. I think subconsciously in the first 6 months of the year I did everything to try and keep, win back my wife and it did me no good what so ever. She did what she wanted to regardless so the last 6 months I have given her reasons to go find LOVE and bollix like that.

She knows I still care but she has seen a side of me that she did not know existed. I can be a prick and I don't like it full stop. Deep down I want my marriage to work BUT again, how can you ever fully trust that person again? I don't think its possible.

Mate if you have made it this far my advice and it may sound harsh, let her go. Let the two of them be. You sound a lot like me, I am not a violent person, but I have told this Army piss ant that If I ever see him, I will damage him. You need to tell this to this fooker messing with your Wife. Again, I don't condone violence, but sometimes your not left with any other way.

As hard as it may be, you also have to remember you are not to blame for this. Your wife, like mine is so fooking low in themselves they cannot see the trees through the forest, so let her go and do what she has to do.

A lot of people have given you great advice in this forum, use it and take it and work with it. 

Don't be a door mat mate any more. 

Even though my Wife and I are still living in the same house, you can cut the tension in the air with a knife. They only way I can be calm in side and sleep at night is through a couple of drinks and maybe a smoke... 

My life sucks mate, you have family around, use them, get their help and support. If my **** happen back home, I know after February I would have gone. I know that she knows that.

Use your support system and you like me mate, deserve better.

The one promise I made to myself was to always do better than my parents did for me. I have failed on that promise. I am still here for my kids. I am still with my Wife. Do I respect her? No and No. Do I love her, yes, I always will. Just because you love someone does not mean you have to be a doormat

Sometimes people have to loose something to realize its value. I did -


Its very hard for me to pretend not to give a **** about my Wife, but I do it. Even reading that last line back is so foreign to me that its unreal, but am I going to be treated like **** again, no way.

Even today, I had to battle with my mind because I get so freaked out thinking she is up to stuff with this Guy. Again, I have feelings that she is, but because so many lies have been told, I don't know what is real any more and its sucks.

Dont take any more ****, you cannot be responsible for her any more man, she has to, as people have said, hit rock bottom to look up. let her go, don't call her, dont let her no your concerned and try and move on.

A lot harder than said but what can you do? Be treated like a piece of **** over and over again.

As I said I don't like who I have become and I know the real me is there, but its a protective measure for myself, a wall as such that I have build since June 2008 and It will not come down.

I don't trust her, I don't think I ever will. Due to the lack of Trust she has caused, she does not trust me at all. Its strange, but I like that because she feels what I feel but I have real reason to feel that she dose not as I have never cheated on her.

If it were not for my Children, I would leave and sleep on the streets, my father offered me a bunch of Money to leave last June but I refused. My mess my problem and it would have been a short term fix.

My Wife's family are a bunch of retards, miserable, selfish people. I thought my wife was different, but you are what you eat as they say, she is one of them and unfortunately I am now one of them also but its not by choice.

I know you love her man, but ask yourself this Question ?????

If she said to you today, Babe, I'm sorry and want to come home. I know your initial reaction would be one of joy, but realistically how can you Trust her not to be pulled in the way she has OR when the going gets though for her not to get in touch with this Military Wanker again?

Your mind and soul would be destroyed like mine was and is to an extent. 

I could type and type mate, but I am suiting myself from now on in my crap ****ty marriage. Focusing on my Two beautiful Children and giving them a "Family Home" for as long as I can.

I made Thanksgiven for them and Christmas while my wife slept... I felt like giving her **** for it, but the guilt on her face was enough. I did not have to say anything. If she wants to be that way, she can, I dont like it but Im not going to let her know it bothers me.

Its not ideal but when money is pay check to pay check and my family is 4000 miles away and her family are retards, I would rather be around my Family home with my Kids than be away from my family home. I asked her to leave back in July to her retard mothers house and her mother kicked her out after two days. It suited them both, my Wife could not stand to think I have any freedom and her mother did not want to deal with her.

I am now openly friendly to my neighbors, and one in particular, who is very cute and sexy. She flirted with me in Front of my wife on a couple of occasions and to see my Wife's face go bright red and hate that ***** (her words) was music to my ears... As much as I hate it, I enjoyed it on the same hand. A taste of her own medicine. I would have an affair, but my morals and values keep me away, but realistically mate, I am in no emotional state to be involved with any other person let alone my Wife. I could not be bothered as no good can come of it. Its enough for my wife to think that other women find me attractive to piss her off. Its enough for me. 

Fight fire with fire but don't loose your values and morals and do what is best for you and your Child. Its hard and its tough love as it has been stated.

Remember, this wont be forever, I keep on reminding myself of that each and every morning I wake up with this fooking huge cloud over my head.

Best of luck to you.

Your Irish Counter Part.... High Five to you bro!! Your a good guy.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

:iagree:


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## theirishdubliner (Dec 30, 2008)

PS Mate

Your Wife also loves the Idea of Two men fighting over her. It spurns her on... Low Self Esteem and Self Image to blame.

I would bet your wife has some bad stuff happen in her Child Hood.? Could you confirm.

Did her Dad leave the Family home early in her Childhood?

Just curious.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

This is probably the toughest thread on the board. I can't imagine my wife actually making long term plans to be unfaithful. This has been happening to you for months. Its like a Chinese water torture. I could not bear it. Its like a train rushing at you at full speed and you're tied to the friggen track. I don't know where you find the strength to deal with this. The only option left is to blow up the train.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I hear you both. I believe I'm starting to "round the corner". This weekend is when I think things starting to snap in my head about this situation. When we were arguing about her staying out til 2am she started to get really nasty and hurtful. She got po'd when I was nasty back and kicked me in the shoulder while I was laying in bed with my son. I completely shut down and stopped talking to her at that point. She became even more po'd and told me to call the cops on her. I didn't answer. Then she actually went downstairs and got the phone and put it on my chest. My eyes were closed and I was just laying there. She continued to poke at the phone and then started to push the phone towards my chin and shove it into my jaw all the while saying "go ahead..call them...call the cops on me...have me put in jail." This went on for like 10 minutes with me just laying there, eyes closed without responding. Then she started saying comments about taking me for every penny, taking our house and having sex with this other guy in our house once I get kicked out. 

After hearing all that crap on top of all of the other stuff with this other guy and just how she has been acting completely wacko and selfish I just figured..game over. I mean she was trying to provoke me to get angry enough to actually hit her or physically assault her. In another argument a few weeks ago she kept saying all kinds of crap to get me angry and when she saw she was getting me angre she was acting telling me "him me...go ahead hit me.". 

I'm like a bear in that it really takes a lot to get me angry and irritated. I would never..never hit a woman and probably would never hit anyone. But she was trying to bait me now for the second time to strike her. Plus she has done things to play with my emotions because she knows that I am sensitive and caring. You are right that I'm the back-up plan and she probably is thriving on being pursued by both guys. It's been four months of this and it feels like 4 years. 

I just have decided to focus on myself and my son. She will be moving out son which will give me some piece while we seperate. This weekend she said that she wasn't going to go out on New Year's eve with her dirtbag girlfriend, but when I came home from work she said that she now was going to go out. I didn't even care and I'd rather she go. THat just gives me time alone with my son on New Year's eve and Day since she won't come rolling home until 2pm-3pm on Ne Year's day. Then she act all sad that she misses our son.

I'm tired of the selfishness. I'm tired of all the games. I'm tired of being the nice guy and trying to work things out. I again.stupidly, reached out to her yesterday and sent her an email just trying to focus on us and not on the other dirtbag. When I came home the first thing she brought up was "now that I'm no longer talking to him, you don't want to focus on him". She brings that up instead of all the other things I wrote to her. I mean, of course I don't want to focus on him because if he's no longer in the picture there's nothing to focus on but us. That's the point...right? 

Just no getting through to her. To answer your question Irish...her parents were divorced when she was 5 years old. Her father has been in and out of her life. When we got married he completely dropped out of her life, doesn't want to be. I met him once and when we were getting married actually called him to talk to him about the situation because I felt bad for my wife. He said that she has done a lot of hurtful things to him and that she has never appologized for them so he is done with her. Her mom, who she still does talk to is a pleasure seeker. She's been married 3 times and actually tried to sneak in her lover to our wedding while she was still married to her second husband. That was a great experience. Her mom has offered no help or support to my wife because at 50 years old she believes her work as a mother is over. She's married to a younger man also because her mom can't deal with getting old and they very rarely see my son because her mom is soo busy even though she lives like 2 minutes from our home. When my wife was younger her mother was very abusive verbally and her fathe was physically abusive towards her. I suspect there has was also some type of sexual abuse. The problem is that my wife does not want to face her past or try to figure out what is wrong. She just want to "be able to be me" as she would say. What she doesn't realize is the "me" that she is really messed up and she can be better and have a happier life. It's a stubborness and selfishness I've put up with since I married her. I felt sorry for her which is probably why I married her. I thought that by helping her and showing her love and what a real family is like that she would change and want to change. The reality is that you can't change people who don't want to change. They have to want the same things that you want. That is where I made my mistake. Now I'm at this point in my life. It's sad. I sat in my car the other night just reflecting on this, wondering how all of this happened, how I got to this point and what could I have done differently. I'm still really sad and because I'm an emotional guy I cry a lot about it. I try not to in front of my wife because I think it just fuels her but when I'm by myself I have to let it out or I think I would crack. 

Just like you Irish I try to motivate myself each day. I pray each night, looking at my son and asking God for some type of help. I too have lost a lot of weight (35-40 pounds) since all of this has happened. I feel better as a result which is a good thing. I joined a gym and try to go a few times a week to exercise and try to feel better physically. I spend a lot of time with my son and take him to my parents house more in the past 4 months than I have visited them in the first 2 years of his life ,mainly because of my wife. 

I just try to tell myself that I'm a good person that something really bad is happenign to. Just like you guys I try to keep perspective in that this is a storm that will pass I guess. But I cannot just allow my wife to keep hurting me and walking all over me. When we seperate I hope things will calm down and I can get some rest and a reprieve from this.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mclovin-

Just passing by to say hello. I read your last post, I think she is trying to get a reaction as you say, but as for what is going on in her head, it would be foolish to speculate. 

The best policy may be to stop initiating contact unless its over unavoidable domestic things. 

I suspect communication has never been that good between you, and she feels frustrated. However, right now, you could be the world's greatest orator, and get nowhere. What may help is to really really listen to her, the next time she talks, and make sure you understand her, and ask her to explain what she means whenever it is ambiguous. At the same time, you should not attempt to put your own point of view - juts seek to get hers. This may go some way to calming her down. I think there are a few big things she has wanted to communicate to you over the years, but she just could not get through to you. This could just as much be a deficiency in her as it is in you. Some women insist on telepathy in a male, but few find it...

So the resentment she now has is huge, huge. Resentment is the #1 marriage killer.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Funny but it seems easier for you to stay focused when she is coming off the wall. I think the danger for you is not when she is mean. But if the fog clears and she comes begging for you to take her back. "It was all a mistake, I was wrong, I need your help, Don't break up the family because of what I did, we need to stay together for our son, You don't want our son growing up in a broken home. She will come back with everything and the kitchen sink once she thinks you are pulling away from her and reality starts to set in. In my opinion its not a matter of if but only when. The only question is will you have steeled yourself enough to see through it. At this point I think she needs deep therapy and that she needs it alone. You have tried everything. As I have said as you pull away and leave her to her self she will no longer be able to blame you for her misery. After all what are you guilty of. Loving her? supporting her? giving her countless chances to reconcile? I personally think the only way she can get better is if you two separate.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Mark.. I hear you. I do believe we are both at fault for poor communication. In reviewing this situation it has been hard to just "listen" to her without injecting my own thoughts. It is just very hard not to at this point because she really isn't making sense at all. Like the other day when she told me this guy was going to leave his kids to be with her. I initially listened and then asked a question which was "I thought you said that he was a great father and would never leave his children". She told me that he is a "great father" and that I don't understand. I asked her to explain to me how a father leaving his children, innocent children to be with someone he hardly knows makes him a great father. She then got po'd and shut down. Then when I backed off and calmly asked her again she started to tell me that "he's in the military and that lifestyle has led him to not be with his children that much anyway." She also added that "when you are involved with a person in the military that you have to realize that it's a different life and it's not normal for them to be home all the time." Now this guy is in the reserves. He has not been deployed for 3 years so he has been with his children over that time. He has a regular job and is supposedly home every night with his children. So he "chooses" to re-enlist and he "chooses" to be away from his children. So I mentioned these things to my wife and also said that he is now "choosing" to leave them and that everything is just an excuse. I told her that his children didn't choose for him to be in the military and that when you make a choice to have children you have a commitment to them and that he clearly is not a good father because he would rather commit to going back into the military knowing he will be away from them and furthermore would leave them to be with my wife. I don't even know why I try to rationalize with her. She seriously tries to justify everything including this guy and what they are both doing as being ok and it's not.

I have listened to her many times without saying a word, just trying to lend support or tell her that I understand. The other night when she was away I was thinking about what she said about being "alone" at night when I would put my son to bed. I thought about it and called her on her cell and left a message telling her that I understand how she must have felt being alone and that it must have been hard. I told her that I felt bad for her and that I never meant for that to happen and that I was just trying to give her a break from our son and since he has a sleeping issue try and take over and give her time to herself. It's like I do listen and then I reach out to her to let her know I understand what she is saying and how she feels. 

But she never reaches out to me at all. She never listens to me or sees how hurt I am and tries to change things. All she ever says is that she doesn't love me anymore and doesn't have feelings for me. I offer to take her out or go somewhere with her or try anything to show her that although things went sour, I understand now and am sorry. On the flip side though she has done some really unthoughtful things and has been more of a taker than a giver. I seriously have given her everything that I could and she has just taken and taken and taken. Very little in return. I know that she felt alone, but part of the problem is that she has a sleeping issue. So when I would put my son to sleep and then fall asleep at a normal time (9:30 or 10:00) she would still be awake until Midnight or 1am. She refuses to seek help with her sleeping problems just like she refuses to seek help in this situatkon. She just doesn't think nor has she ever thought that she has a problem(s). It's always me or other people, but never her.

She does resent me for many reasons. I think she resents me because our son is more attached to me and she has stayed home with him and is irritated because she think he loves me more, which she constantly throws at me. She resents me because my family supports me and I have a family that loves me and she doesn't. She throws that in my face that my family has been there for me through all of this and she has no family to lean on. She resents me just for being me and I think being successful. It's interesting because when I got promoted in May is when I saw a post from her to a friend that she can't stand me and hates me. Intersting timing. The problem is that I can't change any of these things. My son does seem more attached to me, it's not my faul, I just think I"m more natural as a parent. My family is great, can't help that. And I can't help that I work hard and try to better myself most of which is because I want a great life for my family. 

Again, I'm not the best communicator but for some reason with my wife I'm made out to be the worst communicator ever. I can tell you though that I'll take responsibility for some of our marriage issues, but what was going on is not uncommon. We had fertility issues and had to go through treatments. We had financial problems as a result. We then made the decision for my wife to stay home because she was very attached to our son, so that caused more financial stress. I was busting my ars to find another job that would be more money so that would lessen that burden. I did, then I got promoted which helped even more. Things were starting to get better on many fronts and boom, my wife starts to have an emotional affair and is just completely loosing it. In hindsight my wife has been depressed since the birth of our son and I blame myself for not being more aware of it and doing more. But I didn't and now I'm trying harder than ever with no response from her. I can't put myself through this anymore. I really have tried and love my wife but the episode this past weekend really did it for me. I mean to push a phone in my face, kick me...say those things about the other guy and that she was going to have sex with him in our house. She needs a reality check and I just can't be surrounded by her because she is unstable and will self destruct. I can't take the suicide comments from her anymore. I can't take her telling me she is going to shoot me or kill me. I slept with the door to my son's room locked on Saturday night because I started to wonder if she really would do something to me when I was sleeping. She makes jokes about poisening me so I really start to wonder if when she makes dinner if she would slip something in my meal to make me sick. It's just no way to live and she would say that I'm acting like a baby for taking these things seriously but I just fear that one day she'll follow through on one of these threats.

I'm writing this and just thinking what the hell is going on. Again..for the ten thousand time I'm thinking how did all this happen and how am I involved in it.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mclovin-

She is unstable and her judgement is impaired. However, through ignorance, you have probably handled her in a less than optimum way.

After she has had some time apart from you, she may calm down. If so, you will get another chance to listen. But you have perhaps been to giving in certain areas and she walked all over you. This has the dual affect of making you feel resentful, and making her loose respect for you.



mclovin said:


> I don't even know why I try to rationalize with her. She seriously tries to justify everything including this guy and what they are both doing as being ok and it's not.


She is in a make-believe world right now, and you're only spoiling it. The illusion won't last for ever. When she comes back down to earth, if you want to, you can pick up the pieces. But on your terms. I don't mean you should take advantage, I mean you should do what is best, and not be swayed by her nagging. Listen to her nagging, but count to 10 before you accede to any unreasonable requests.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Good advice Twain. Thank you. The environment right now is just not good for communication. I asked her some questions the other day, again trying to help. I wrote the below to her in email the othe day because sometimes writing rather than talking seems to be better because we are not in each other's prescense and each of us has time to think or respond without the other being there. This is what I wrote:

Are you really in love with him, or are you just in love with the qualities you are currently getting from him (listening, support, someone to be there for you etc) that you are not or have not been getting from me right now or in the past? Are these qualities that you are getting completely over-shadowing severe warning signals (leaving his children behind with excuses that make it sound ok, odd other relationships (his wife/wife’s boyfriend), putting his wife in jail, ambulance chaser/lawsuits, etc)? 

Now compare the above to what you know about me. Is it impossible for me to change and listen to you, be there for you, support you, and have fun with you? I did in the past but had some hard times (bad jobs, fertility issues, our son's sleeping issues) that wore us both down. Aren’t those things/qualities what you loved about me in the first place? That I was fun, that I listened to you, that we used to spend time together (watching movies, playing games, etc).

How can I show you that I love you and that you can be supported, listened to, loved by me and that we can have a great, loving relationship when I’m not allowed the opportunity to? Instead all of your energy is being put into another relationship that will go nowhere with you only being hurt more. You are thinking about how to get your feelings back for me, but acting on building your feelings for him. 


I also told her that I don't want to focus on the other guy anymore and just want to focus on healing and working our our relationship. No response from her. Again...game over for now. We will seperate and she can have time to think. I can have some peace from this situation. I found a post of hers on a message board that asks about a birth control back-up for the pill she is currently taking. I asked her about the post and at first she denied writing it, then confessed that she was asking because if she ever met him again she didn't know what would happen. That's was what started our fantastic weekend and started to get my mind straight that I can't do anything at this point other than focus on my son and take care of my feelings because she has constantly and selfishly destroyed me time and time again. 

We'll see what happens. I'm sure this goofball is coming back from Iraq if he isn't already back. I'm sure she'll see him and it will be a talk a thon and they probably will finally consumate their relationship. That part kills me because she can do all of this and then, like you said, will come back to me when the fantasy ends. That's what I will be thinking about during our seperation. How I will handle that if and when it happens. I'm not sure at this point. I'm hurt about what has happened and hurt about what might happen between them while we are seperated. Don't know if I can get over that. Trust is the most important thing to me and I have none. If she would admit her problems, see a professional about her past, and get help, maybe. But I don't know.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Happy New Year Mclovin. How did you fare?


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Very odd. My wife came home the next day from her New Year's outing. I took my son to my parents house on New Year's Eve and Day and didn't come home until around 5pm on NY Day. When I came home she was sitting almost in the dark and just looked miserable. 

We had a long talk while my son was sleeping. She basically told me that she doesn't want to have feelings for TOM anymore. That the reality of the situation is that it could never work between them. She talked to me about their relationship and how TOM is being unrealistic, making promises, then changing his mind. He was going to leave his children, now he isn't. He was going to leave is job, now he isn't. Then when she says it's over he hangs on.

She was saying how much she missed being around my son (not so much me) and seeing him run around on NY eve with a party hat and noise maker. But she doesn't know how to stop the feelings for this other guy. 

What do I do? Is she just saying these things because she is scared about seperating and moving out? She seemed very sincere and was really crying and upset. I just listened and tried to be understanding. But basically everything she told me about what he says is what I predicted. 

She just refuses to believe that this guy is a bad person or manipulating her, but really he is.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I think she is sensing that he may not be that white knight she thought he was, but he sucked her in emotionally so her head is not agreeing with her heart right now. She is realizing that he is not going to be everything she fantasized about.

At this point, I would stick to your guns that in order to stay and work on the marriage, he needs to be out of the loop--no contact. 

She may still go forward with separating, as she doesn't seem mentally ready to let go of TOM, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't fall apart fairly quickly. If she still insists on keeping things going with him, if it were me, I'd mentally move forward on my own...otherwise, you will feel TOM is controlling your destiny and all will depend on what he agrees to do.


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