# Dang, another ILYB



## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

Ok, let me start by saying I've been lurking these forums now for almost 2 months.

My wife and I have been married 18 years, together 21, and have two teenage kids. We've had the typical marriage I guess.
I have a pretty high demand hours job, 80-90 hours a week can be routine. My wife has a management job, that can also be quiet stressful. Our kids are HEAVILY into sports, and have been for 10 years. My wife and I have never really had time for ourselves, but my wife has probably had even less due to all the practices, games, school functions, sleepovers, braces appt. etc etc. Least I went to work and got to stay there. We put 80,000 miles on her car last year for practices and games.

We've made ourselves totally available to the kids and their functions, and forgot about ourselves. We've never missed a game, are team parents that help with snacks/drinks/rosters. Looking back I don't remember a night that we had off in the last 2-3 years.

So, anyways, I come home and my wife hits me with the I love you but im not sure im in love with you anymore, I've lost myself, I have no identity, we have no life together anymore. And we feel like just roomates and taxi service now a days.
I was blow away, she said she thought maybe a separation would help, so I moved to the living room.

Our schedules haven't changed much tho, she gets up takes kids to school, gets off work, gets kids ready for practice, I show up, and off we go. We take turns making dinner/housework, then all the homework has to be addressed. And she goes into bedroom and watches 100's of episodes of old 80's tv shows. I help as much as I thought I could with the house duties and kids, but i'll admit theres times I was just too damn tired after a 100 hour work week to pick myself up.

We are both now stuck in this cloud, I don't know what to do, she doesn't know if she can keep doing this. She wont seek marriage counseling cause we have no time, and she doesn't think she can feel anything for me anymore with as lost and she is and the resentment that's built up.

I jumped on the internet for help and found this site, and been doing some reading. I bought 2 voice thingies for the car, checked her facebook, and looked at her phone, and our phone records. NOTHING. All of it was scheduling for sports/kids. Some texts to her longtime friend about needing some time before she explodes, and the stress of work. One text about how she cant come to me, cause im too busy to help anyways. So needless to say im pretty comfortable after 2 months of checking, theres not an EA or heck PA, who's got that kind of time.

So here's my question? She's pretty adamant that she's done in the marriage, needs a break from it all, including the kids. And, that she sees no point in extending her misery as the kids are almost done with school. She feels nothing for me at this point.

Is this saveable? Is it too late? She comes home a zombie and just watches tv now. Will do some laundry and some cleaning on commercials, but is still home every night. She just gets up the next morning and does the "routine" again. I know she's looking forward to summer break, but then my son's football starts up a few days later. She doesn't want to talk about anything. 

Do I just hope that this is a mid-life crisis and she'll snap out of it? Is she on the verge of a nervous breakdown? Gets mad when I want to talk it over, and says she thinks its too late.
What can I do? what should I do? Can anything be done but wait if she's not willing to seek help?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

This is no mid-life crisis.

I wonder why couples who have lost their connection due to overly extensive schedules leaving no "Us" time think seperating and having no "Us" time can fix the problem?

You need to cut back to a sane work schedule and you need to get rid of half or more of the kid activities/events and start spending quality time together
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ImInShock said:


> I have a pretty high demand hours job, 80-90 hours a week can be routine. My wife has a management job, that can also be quiet stressful.
> 
> We put 80,000 miles on her car last year for practices and games.
> 
> ...


^ THIS. ^ Life is about balance. Balance of work, marriage, children, relaxation, etc. You, your wife, and quite frankly, your kids, are out of balance. Completely.

In this challenging economy, people work more, earn less, and are stressed out of their minds. The only problem is, people are practically enslaved to their careers. One wrong step, or saying "no" when the boss asks for extra hours, could spell termination.

You pose a great many questions as to whether or not your marriage is salvageable. I don't know. But I do know this: the only person over whom you ultimately exercise any control is yourself. Counseling? Yes, get into counseling ASAP. Work hours? If you can cut back a little, it would help. Driving children to/from activities and attending activities: Can someone else drive your kids? Can they get rides with other families?

I realize my questions are overly simplistic, but it's a start in the right direction. JMO.

I know a couple who lead a similar lifestyle. Always running to some school activity, political event, work-related get-together. Their schedules are crazy. However, they have made it a point throughout their 23 year marriage to carve out down-time as a couple. 

As a woman, I can attempt to put myself in your wife's place. She is zoning out by watching t.v. It is her escape mechanism. You are working yourself to death, or you are there for the kids. But how about her?

Any chance you can sit down with her, and really talk things out. This marriage sounds like it's dying from neglect. Time to see what, if anything, is salvageable and if she'll get onboard with a plan.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

I have cut back on work over the last 2 months, i'm helping a lot more with the kids' stuff. But she still wont leave zombie mode and had downloaded our DVR with all the 80's shows she'll stay up and watch, but isn't willing to talk to me about whats going on. It like like talking to a wall, she's just not there most of the time mentally.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ImInShock said:


> ... she still wont leave zombie mode and had downloaded our DVR with all the 80's shows she'll stay up and watch, but isn't willing to talk to me about whats going on. It like like talking to a wall, she's just not there most of the time mentally.


She is stonewalling you. And my bet is she's sublimating her anger by zoning out. Granted, it's a passive-aggressive tactic, but it works quite well. I hate to say it, but it sounds like she is sick and tired of being sick and tired. She doesn't want to deal with the failure of her marriage.

The gist I get from your OP is you two haven't really had time to deal with the issues that confront a marriage. You are both too involved in your careers and in your children's activities. 

At this point, you can only work on yourself. Have you read anything on TAM about the 180? Even if it doesn't salvage your marriage, it will put you in a better position to navigate the outcome. 

Get into counseling for yourself. Like I said, it sounds as if your marriage died of neglect. 

Has your wife ever shown anger, or are the two of you so busy you don't have time to argue? 'Cause that sounds like what has gone on in your marriage.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Sounds as if she's truely checked out.

As others have stated, it's time to reduce all the volunteer activity to nothing. Let someone else on the teams step up and be the team parent and help with the snacks, drinks and roster. Sounds as if the two of you have earned a break.

Is there any alternative to getting the kids to school? Bus service provided by the school?

Also, having kids who are also into sports I know what you've been through. Or kids knew that we could not always make every game but knew that for the most part, one or both of us would be at games if we could and they were fine with that. It's all about setting realistic levels of expectations

She sounds as if she's fallen into a state of depression. Is there anyway you can convince here to see her Dr?


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

Well I guess I've just been naïve to the fact we were having issues, so I didn't know I needed to confront anything. I cant say I've been happy, but I thought that's just the sacrifices you made for your kids. 

Its hard for me to work on myself, as I've taken more time from work, but am now spending it helping more with the kids. So that time frame has just switched, but the hours are the same, and I've been picking that slack up to give my wife a few minutes to herself here and there, hoping she'll come around.

Anger, we really never fought, just worked the routine. We're arguing now cause the situation is tough. The kids see i'm on the couch, see we're not talking much. They have questions, and i'm trying to tell them, we're just on break.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

I brought up that maybe she's going thru the change, and we might need to see a Dr., that just enraged her. 

The kids go to a private school, no transportation provided. One will be driving at end of summer, so that will give us a HUGE break, but im not sure we can survive that long.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Let me guess. She is close to turning 40.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

She turned 40 this year, yes.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ImInShock said:


> Its hard for me to work on myself, as I've taken more time from work, but am now spending it helping more with the kids. So that time frame has just switched, but the hours are the same, and I've been picking that slack up to give my wife a few minutes to herself here and there, hoping she'll come around.


Before you had kids, it was just you and your wife. That got lost along the way. 



ImInShock said:


> Anger, we really never fought, just worked the routine. We're arguing now cause the situation is tough. The kids see i'm on the couch, see we're not talking much. They have questions, and i'm trying to tell them, we're just on break.


I want to phrase this in a way that won't be offensive; however, I tend to be overly blunt. I realize that defect of character, so please bear with me here. 

Here's my take on what you've written: Both you and your wife are doer's. Always busy. Always running from one activity to another. That is all well and good, but it also says to me that you are both avoiders. Problems? Well, everyone has problems. Anger? Anger is a "bad" emotion. Nice people don't cuss, holler, or get the slightest bit out of control. Nice people stuff it all down and just suck it up.

Your wife is ENRAGED at you. Bussing the kids around more, folding laundry, or making dinner isn't even going to come close to doing jack about your marriage. 

By the time I got around to the ILYB speech, I had already gone over the pro's and con's of staying married about a million times in my head. She's done.

Unfortunately, since you don't have a clue how to get your wife back on board, and she's zoned out, YOU CAN ONLY WORK ON YOURSELF. The marriage may be resuscitated, but her detached streak may be strong enough that she won't come around regardless of what you do.

Actually, it doesn't sound like you and your wife really know one another. Did you have a sex life before she gave you the speech, or was that put on the back burner?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What you should do is create the life and marriage and family with the proper time allocations and priorities. Don't do it to get your wife back, do it becuase it's right.

As you are doing this, invite your wife to leave, seperate, file for divorce or whatever she wants to do, while making it clear that you are in the process of improving your way of operating as a husband and father.

Invite her to be part of the new family you are creating.

Make it clear that you will not tolerate a person living in your home destroying the marriage, so if she has no intent to work on being your wife she best be on her way and finding new living arrangements for herself.

She bears a huge amount of responsibility for the state of her marriage and her resentment of you and allowing it to build over years... Hold her accountable to some of that.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

The sex obviously dropped from before the kids were born.

It dropped to 3-4 a month maybe, but we haven't had sex in 2 months now. Tried not to pressure her there, but would instead try a foot/back message, which she will no longer accept either.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

She also said she doesn't want to hear the D word. But at the same time doesn't want to talk about anything except getting the kids thru school for now.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You need to stand up for yourself and not accept the rules your wife is throwing out there.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ImInShock said:


> She also said she doesn't want to hear the D word. But at the same time doesn't want to talk about anything except getting the kids thru school for now.


My take on that is she's staying put until the kids are done with school. So, she's going to live with the status quo.

She's also telling you the ground rules for how this marriage is going to be. And it sounds like a lousy situation to live with. 

So, are you willing to live with this? If not, what are you going to do? I assure you, being all nicey-nice to her is doing nothing but pissing her off big time. You're coming across as wimpy. 

You can't get her to talk? Well, fine. Get balance in your own life. Do a 180. It will either shake her out of her zombie-like state, or it won't. Either way, you will improve your own life.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

It sounds like she's got super mom lifestyle burn out.

She's a very prime target for any sleaze ball that offers her attention just for her, and fantasy time.

It can be that other guy, or it can be you if you act fast and see it through.

First step- figure out how to deprioritize the kids and kid stuff. Hand them off to another parent, or hire a nanny/sitter. Do what you need to , in order to free you and her up.

Second, find low key you and her only things. Movies, walking , anything that does not involve being parents.

Third, stay very vigilant watching for signs of an outside party. There are a lot of predatory guys who will be picking up her scent.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

ok, now for some tough questions then:

IF I can get some of the other parents to help on transportation of the kids for practices. How do I get her to go for a walk with me, when she doesn't/isn't willing to be around me?

Can I do the 180 in my house, or better to move out for a month or so and she if she sees how much I've been putting in as well?? Its not like this has been a vacation for me, especially lately. I'm barely getting 3-4 hours of sleep, and now with the stress, its like 15 minutes here and there. I'm exhausted, and my mind is wreaking havoc on me. I'm doing more that half the work load, so finding time to work on me isn't gonna just be a juggling act but a three ring circus.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> She turned 40 this year, yes.


I know EXACTLY how you feel. This happened to me 10 years ago. Things are just now getting a little better. What ever you do, do not beg her to stay, just let her know you are in it til she is done. I have read His needs her needs great book, but will not work unless she reads it and both of you apply it. I would suggest No More Mr Nice Guy and Married Mans Sex Life Primer. Both of these books are about improving YOU. Having said that go ahead and read HNHN as well. Find out what her needs are and try to fill those needs, but not at the expense of your manhood.
Get in shape be upbeat around her, don't be needy and clingy. Try to detach emotionally a little bit to give her room.
They guys I worked with when I was a young man told me this would probably happen, and I told them no way that would happen to me.---I was wrong.
When women get this age they tend to rexamine their life and wonder is this all that there is. Every mistake you have ever made is now being brought up to her in her mind.
Hang in there buddy remember your vows. For better or worse. If she decides to call it quits then that is on her, just be proactive on improving yourself and make your self more desirable. But most of all stay faithfull, because there is going to be alot more hurt before things get better.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Oh by the way, keep an eye out for red flags on her cheating. If you find anything do not confront. Go to the CWI section for more help. Probably not cheating, but be informed.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ImInShock said:


> IF I can get some of the other parents to help on transportation of the kids for practices. How do I get her to go for a walk with me, when she doesn't/isn't willing to be around me?


You can't get her to walk with you. Go for a walk yourself. Get some exercise. If nothing else, it will ease your stress a bit. Sadly, we cannot get anyone to do anything; we only control ourselves. 



ImInShock said:


> Can I do the 180 in my house, or better to move out for a month or so and she if she sees how much I've been putting in as well??


If you do the 180, it's for you; not her. She'll either get with the program or she'll remain zoned out. However, you have a better chance of things improving if you work on yourself. 



I'mInShock said:


> doing more than half the work load, so finding time to work on me isn't gonna just be a juggling act but a three ring circus.


You sound like you are avoidant. Same with your wife. Slow down. Life is too short to be running around like some kinda maniac. YOU have a life. It's not about ignoring your needs. 

I'm going to ask you something, because my antennae just went up. Do either you or your wife come from a family where there was someone with addiction? Alcoholism? Workaholics? Eating disorders? Gambling? Any other "ism" you can think of?

Both of you are so unbalanced and out of touch with what is going on inside yourselves. Please don't take that wrong ... I'm not saying it to be mean. But you sound like you are drowning, but you keep pushing aside the life vest. I mean, all this work, work, work and no time for yourself. 

I've known many adult children of alcoholics over the years, and they tend to shove down their feelings and become overly responsible.

Marriage is hard work. You and your wife have been so overly involved in doing "stuff" that the marriage died. You obviously realize you need to work hard at your job and raising your kids.

What the heck happened here? I mean REALLY. Because this is about a whole lot more than two people being too busy. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if either one of you are that invested in the marriage or yourselves.

Do you understand what I'm asking here?


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Have her read "I love you but I'm not in love with you". Then the 5 love languages, and finally his needs her needs. 

I went through the same thing this year at age 43. Had a breakdown one night. We were parents for so long we forgot about us. I couldn't figure out what I wanted in my future. My kids are tuning 18 & 21 this summer and no longer need me. I flipped out! 

It's not easy, MC would be ideal but she has to want to work this out.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

She's a walk a way wife. She's biding her time till the kids finish school.

I'm so sorry.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

LoriC said:


> Have her read "I love you but I'm not in love with you". Then the 5 love languages, and finally his needs her needs.
> 
> I went through the same thing this year at age 43. Had a breakdown one night. We were parents for so long we forgot about us. I couldn't figure out what I wanted in my future. My kids are tuning 18 & 21 this summer and no longer need me. I flipped out!
> 
> It's not easy, MC would be ideal but she has to want to work this out.


if she is like my wife, she is not going to read it. Maybe if he heads for the door she might.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

Thound said:


> Every mistake you have ever made is now being brought up to her in her mind.


OMG, that's exactly whats happening, stuff from 12 years ago thrown in my face. A comment about dishes, I left one unclean, like really?

I don't mean to sound avoidant, just a bit upset I guess, that with work, kids, the remaining kids' schedule, finals all next week, lack of sleep. I get to work harder, don't get me wrong she's worth it, just trying to figure out what im gonna need to take to get me thru it all. Very exhausted from a month and a half of trying to figure out if she was cheating on me too.

EXHAUSTED!!!


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

My father was a terrible alcoholic, but I didn't really know him, parents divorced when I was young, and he died shortly after. My mother doesn't drink at all, nor do I. I am a workaholic, but I've got 120 guys counting on me, along with their families. Its been tough the last few years with the economy, but im the one that's always expected to "get it done".

My wife's mom was a drug and alcoholic. Abandoned my wife 3x while growing up, last time in 8th grade, then she finally showed back up, it was at her high school graduation ceremony. She still tries to win her affection, I don't have the heart to tell her he mom don't really care, she buys her affection, doesn't earn it back. Met the dad a couple of times, he's never around either, in 15 years, he's never said his own grandson's name correctly. And its not a hard name at ALL. guys just clueless.

Guess looking back now, its amazing we're been together 21 years.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> My father was a terrible alcoholic, but I didn't really know him, parents divorced when I was young, and he died shortly after. My mother doesn't drink at all, nor do I. I am a workaholic, but I've got 120 guys counting on me, along with their families. Its been tough the last few years with the economy, but im the one that's always expected to "get it done".
> 
> My wife's mom was a drug and alcoholic. Abandoned my wife 3x while growing up, last time in 8th grade, then she finally showed back up, it was at her high school graduation ceremony. She still tries to win her affection, I don't have the heart to tell her he mom don't really care, she buys her affection, doesn't earn it back. Met the dad a couple of times, he's never around either, in 15 years, he's never said his own grandson's name correctly. And its not a hard name at ALL. guys just clueless.
> 
> Guess looking back now, its amazing we're been together 21 years.


You can't do anything about the past. Now concerning the 120 people that count on you. Can you form a team environment? Where some of the load can be taken off of you? Do you have the authority to make that happen? Did you find any red flags about her cheating?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> OMG, that's exactly whats happening, stuff from 12 years ago thrown in my face. A comment about dishes, I left one unclean, like really?
> 
> I don't mean to sound avoidant, just a bit upset I guess, that with work, kids, the remaining kids' schedule, finals all next week, lack of sleep. I get to work harder, don't get me wrong she's worth it, just trying to figure out what im gonna need to take to get me thru it all. Very exhausted from a month and a half of trying to figure out if she was cheating on me too.
> 
> EXHAUSTED!!!


I told I know exactly how you feel


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

She has more or less said she wants the marriage to stay intact until the kids are grown. What do you think her reaction would be if she thought you may leave before then?
I'm all for children's well being however the two of you need to be top priority or the kids are going to grow up in a dysfunctional house.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Thound said:


> You can't do anything about the past.


Sorry. Beg to differ. We cannot change the past, but it will hang onto us unless we get closure. We carry it around with us, conscious of it or not. Avoidance of issues and busy-ness is a hallmark of children brought up in environments where addiction is present. And it affects everyone. Or else they sweep it under the rug until everything explodes.

As is happening in this situation. Shock's wife was raised in what can only be described as a chaotic situation. So what now? She controls. Keeps the lid on stuff. Runs herself ragged.

Okay. I'm outta here. ImInShock, I truly wish you the very best.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Thound said:


> if she is like my wife, she is not going to read it. Maybe if he heads for the door she might.


If that's what it takes then maybe he should do that and then he can always say he tried everything to save his marriage.


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## Nix (Jan 23, 2012)

ImInShock said:


> She turned 40 this year, yes.


My wife turned 40 and lost her mind as well, although looking back I can see the many problems and issues that were just never addressed. Looks like we're headed for a breakup. I am going through so many feelings right now, but to be honest, she's treated me like %@[email protected]& for long enough that I am ready to be done myself, as much as I love her and never foresaw this coming. We just celebrated 10 years together.

I am very sorry that you are going through this. I am right there with you and feeling the pain too.


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> My father was a terrible alcoholic, but I didn't really know him, parents divorced when I was young, and he died shortly after.
> 
> My wife's mom was a drug and alcoholic. Abandoned my wife 3x while growing up. Met the dad a couple of times, he's never around either.
> 
> Guess looking back now, its amazing we're been together 21 years.


Yuoe. You both have to seek IC, she's thinking that you have emotionally abandoned her, while in fact it might be more other way around. Individual counseling recommendation is based on each having unique childhood issues. It seems that neither you, nor wife have a good model of what a healthy marriage looks like... Leeme' try this;

In a few years your kids are going to be asking about marriage advice from you, (or if divorced your STX) W. So what advice should they take? You need to take the advice you would give them!

Get it?

You do have responsibilities, yes... But those don't take the priority over your immediate family, for whom will be with you until the day you die! Think about... Whom you want to be at your funeral? Let that guide you here.
Good Luck. Take your life back today!


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Yeah, I've read between 35 and 40ish, many women do some major life-inventory...thinking about the future...what is working what isn't working and just goes through the process of cutting the fat. My wife is doing that...but she also has major trust issues cos of her bad childhood...and just is NOT SEEING that things are going to ever improve. If we lose that influence where we can keep them motivated, focus on the positive...then, as many women do, they grow discontent, disbelieving, and start looking at their options.

It sounds like to me that your wife is making a choice based on hopelessness...she has built in a perception that nothing is going to change...and 'cos many women (not all) don't like to let things go to chance and weigh things heavily on how they presently feel, and intangible promises such as "In a few years the kids will be grown" or "We'll go on that vacation NEXT summer...just hang in there"...just won't do it anymore. She feels that nothing is going to change, and that she is going to be unhappy, exhausted, lonely forever...she is more or less convinced that the future is bleak...and now has to do something about it. It hurts too much to think about it...so she has resolved to close herself out...and is typically doing what a lot of women do...blame their husband. While you guys seem def. overtaxed and that probably is what had led to the disconnect...don't act like that you have to now go off and be superhusband...you can't be responsible for your wife's emotions and so don't start crowding her or interrogating her and then resort to convince her to stay. Let her deal with her own feelings...what is MORE IMPORTANT is that you take charge what MUST be done for your marriage...and do all what you are responsible for. I think it is great that u wanna take care of your workers...but is their job security worth your marriage??...especially when you can prolly start advancing people to take up some of your responsibilities. (If that's possible IDK) But check if you are just being a control-freak, micromanager...and just aren't letting go of some of the control.
I know I know..."The fact that I work so much is the way that I show that I put her first. I provide!" Yeah, I'm sure she appreciates what you have done...but she is so overburdened, so alone, sacrificed so much relationally just as you sacrificed...that her cup is empty...she just can't endure it like you can. She is done. Don't let that freak you out...that is just a present fact. She may feel differently later, but not if you don't start taking the helm of creating a healthy balance, back off her emotionally and focus on controlling yourself and doing everything you can in your power THAT YOU KNOW is part of the problem. Do these things and then maybe create a way for your wife to get away by herself for a few days. Nice hotel room somewhere or a spa resort...where she can just unwind and repair her frayed and raw emotions. Tell her that you want to do this for her...with no strings attached. This situation is causing her to feel claustrophobic in this relationship...and she probably feels like you aren't "hearing" her.

reading suggestions: How to Save Your Marriage Alone by Ed Wheat; The Love Dare (this can be done without being pushy on an unwilling partner); Men Are From Mars, Women are From Venus.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

ImInShock,
One thing you must NOT ever do is be the one to move out of the house. Do that you pretty much give up *everything* in court when she drops the D on you. If she want's to call it quits, than you do NOTHING to make it easier / more convenient for her. Think about what that shows to your children. You're not the one willing to walk away from the family.

You've got an uphill battle ahead of you - she's going to continue re-writing history, paint you and your past worse and worse. It's a normal mechanism for women (mostly it seems) to justify their decisions in their own minds.

Honestly, if you want to get through this, there are three main things I think you must do. 

First is to accept that you can't directly change her, or what she thinks and feels. No amount of doing chores, arranging alone time, or doing anything else for her is going to make her change her mind. It has to come from inside her, and we're talking her decision to spend the second half of her adult life with the same person as the first half (you) - it's 20+ years of accumulated history.

Second is to accept the distinct possibility of failure. I know that sounds totally counter-intuitive, but think of it as chess match or some other sort of strategy game where the moves you make now can determine who has the advantage later on. If you cling tightly to the idea that you will, and you must, somehow make this marriage work, then she will be able to jerk you around and keep you on the defensive going forward. Accepting that the marriage might fail actually will free you to take risks. As long as you're scared she might leave or your plans might backfire, you won't risk doing anything very bold and serious... and that's the only level of thing that might make an impact at this point in time.

Third is to be willing to go nuclear. And mean it. List to this....

She has insisted to you that she want's out. She won't seek counseling. She doesn't feel anything for you. She doesn't want to be intimate with you. She doesn't want to spend casual time with you. She wants away from you and the kids. She doesn't want to talk to you. She doesn't want you to touch her. She doesn't want to remember you in a positive way. She wanted a separation.

You need to grow a pair fast and tell her "There's the door. Now go." and move back into your bedroom and have your lawyer start the D process. And you have to mean it, and not back down an inch knowing she will use all her knowledge of you to wear you down and get you to cave in. If you don't do #1 and #2, you can't pull this one off. And I think it is your ONLY chance to get her to change. Right now she is still too comfortable with things. Comfortable with the support you proved, the home you have established, and her ability to boss you around and get you to move out of the bedroom / house. Comfortable waiting things out so she can leave on hew own terms and timetable, all the while blaming you and having nothing to do with you... and likely preparing to screw you over when the time comes.

You have to be willing to be a complete rock and a**hole about not giving into her one iota (and she will try vigorously to find holes in your resolve). If anything can, this will force her to look in the mirror and see what she is doing and decided if it what she really wants. She has to make an adult decision, and not manipulate you in providing an easy path for her. Faced with it in the harshest light - looking at all the consequences is means for her is maybe the only chance that she me might decide that she's making a stupid mistake. maybe. But don't bet the farm on it.

And do not let her gaslight the situation to the kids. Yes they are teens and can be hurt, but they also are old enough to see the truth and be surprising resilient. Given the opportunity, she'll try and convince them it's all your fault and that she walks on water. Make sure they know she got tired of the whole family thing, not you, but that you can't make up her mind for her. Make sure they know you are staying right there with them and never leaving them. She has to face the reality of her kids knowing that she wants out - most moms I know that have done this will try and save face and make it all the dad's fault. Don't be a chump and let her get away with that and your kids believing lies about you.

She'll throw everything back at you - a thousand reasons why it got this way. You have to be resolute and tell her "it doesn't matter, it's already the past." Tell her "we can decide to make things better for us or we can get on with our separate lives. You already made your decision, and you made it clear to me repeatedly. are you saying you've changed your mind?" She'll want you to accept blame for 'your faults' in the matter as a way of getting you to back down and do what she wants. Get to know the phrases "I don't care" and "it doesn't matter" real well and practice them so you can hold your ground.

And beware the false R - if you go hard-line on her, and manage to push her out of her comfort zone and make her face things, she may show just enough R to get back into it and buy herself some time.

I said above to start the D process. You really do need to do that. it's the only thing serious enough to shake up her world enough that maybe, just maybe she'll conclude it's a bad idea and that you're not that bad a guy after all. Anything less than that is just going to be empty words and threats, and she isn't taking those seriously. You told her want you want to go to counseling and what did she do? that's right.. she ignored you. That tells you right there how much weight she gives yours words. Actions are the only thing that counts now.

Keep doing the stuff for yourself - more non-work time, the 180, etc,.. but it's all for you (and your kids), and nothing for her - see above for the reasons why.

Look - it know this all sounds super harsh, but here is the truth - one of two basic outcomes is going to happen in the next 2/ 5/ 10 years. 1) she's going to change her mind and want to be married to you or 2) she's not going to change her mind and not want to be married to you. WTF are you doing by letting her keep you and the kids in limbo for years? Put your foot down to fast forward to get to the the end of this movie.

Others here have given you some very good advice also. take it, and decide if you are going down with a fight or without.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Like Anubis says, you can't let your wife set the rules. You have to stand up for yourself.

If she doesn't want any MC, if she's getting angry every time you bring something up, then it's up to you to tell her that this isn't acceptable. Tell her that she's stonewalling you, as someone said, and that she's doing things the they she wants to do them but she's not doing things the way that may help the both of you.

If she wants out, tell her fine. But trial separations, staying for the kids, going through the motions...that will guarantee the demise of your marriage.

Put it to her straight: work on the marriage or end the marriage. 

It is not your responsibility to tow the line if she doesn't want to, and above all it's NOT your fault that she wants out.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

Tonight I got so upset the way she was talking at me, cold and hurtful. That I got kinda got pissed and went kinda silent, got in my truck, drove around and decided to go tanning to get out of the house. The phone started ringing (answered on third call)and it was her wanting to know where I was at.......Im just out. It felt kinda relaxing just to get out, but I was still pissed, I came home changed m clothes and went to a local gym and lifted weights for an hour, again the wife calls (answered first call but waited till like 5th ring) wanting to know if im alright. Said she just had a bad day, and asked why I was being cold. I said I don't appreciate the way your talking to me, I'm tired of you talking to me like that. I've done nothing wrong and don't deserve to be treated that way. She said she was sorry and that she had a bad day at work, I said all you needed to say was that, instead you gave me everything but......... then one of my kids is calling, wants to know where Im at, I said Im out. i'll be back later.

By the time I get home, her and one of my kids is gone, my kid is now making me feel guilty about being out. I said why is it if im working on myself with a tan and the gym everyone gets mad at me now?? Response was no one cares what your doing, get over it."

Ouch, my wife is now using the kids against me. That hurts. Not sure what I should do next, but I did start shutting off cell phone of my oldest that made the comment, was pissed, but I said when you can talk to me with some respect and like an adult, i'll think about turning it back on. I feel like it was kinda an extreme 180. not sure its quiet supposed to be used like that, but Im tired of all the crud, and its just building up now.

Any suggestions? kinda keep the silent, just get enough to answer a question attitude going??? I just woke up at 2am, sick to my stomach thinking about it. Not sure I can get to sleep again.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

btw I looked up online about divorce a little, there is no abandonment rule in my state if I move out. My kids, cause of there age, get to pick who they want to live with. Was thinking about it, one would pick me, the other would pick her. Does any of that matter? should I attempt to move out, or stick it out here kinda doing the quiet 180/screw it attitude?


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

My take on this is a little different than most. To me, the way your wife is acting is selfish, immature, and outrageous. No way would I put up with this behaviour. 

The first thing I would do is move back into the bedroom. If she wants out, she can move out. The second thing I would do is sit with her while she watches her tv programs and put a ton of pressure on her to talk to you. Do not let her sit in her comfort zone without feeling the consequences to her actions. Do not take full responsibility for the predicament that both of you put yourselves in (but her more than you, as she has said nothing until now).

She is a married woman with children and you should be demanding that she act like it.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

Don't get me wrong, I could be in denial, but I think I could walk away right now, it would hurt, but I think I could do it. Just beating myself up on the stay or go question. Part of me says tell her im filing and I'll be out tomorrow, so she can see just how much I truly put in myself. 

The other part says wait it out, stay kinda quiet/non-mean/but not ez 180, and just let it play out.

I think at this point either way I went, she wouldn't care.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

The only thing is, why should you be the one to leave? She's the one driving this bus, let her move out. I'd also let her know in no uncertain terms that you will not keep any secrets for her. In other words, your kids and your families should know that this is her selfish decision.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

She said she's not going anywhere, we rent actually, said if I want to leave, go she doesn't care but she's definitely staying. Her best friend is our next door neighbor, and she works with her too.

ok i'll check back later, I need at least another hour of sleep. hopefully


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

OP,

Many of us in long term relationships have faced similar problem created by our neglect of each other. It can just creep up on us without us realizing that we are drifting apart. We put earning a living, looking after the house, raising the children before our marriage and then wonder why it fails.

Our only hope is that we get the wakeup call early enough that both parties are still prepared to work at it. Have you and your wife got that call in time only the two of you can know for sure.


You are in a world of pain right now and I do not think it is going to get better anytime soon.

From what you tell us your marriage has been one of mutual convenience for a long time. Treating each other as roommates, the other parent, fellow breadwinner everything but husband & wife or lovers. Is that a fair assessment?

As far as I can see there are three options open to you.

Put up and shut up:- Accept thinks are going to continue with you living separate lives in the same home until the kids have grown.

Reconciliation:- There is no chance of this unless you force your wife to consider it. Move back into your bedroom, insist that she and the kids all do a share around the house, try and make time for each other. Seek family counseling. 

Separation / Divorce:- If you can or will not put up with things as they are and your wife will not work on reconciliation then it will come to this. Do not worry about the children they will survive just worry that you each get a fair share of your communal assets and reasonable access to the children. It will hurt of all for a period but you can all get through it.

Best of Luck I'am afriad you are going to need it.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

ImInShock said:


> Tonight I got so upset the way she was talking at me, cold and hurtful. That I got kinda got pissed and went kinda silent, got in my truck, drove around and decided to go tanning to get out of the house. The phone started ringing (answered on third call)and it was her wanting to know where I was at.......Im just out. It felt kinda relaxing just to get out, but I was still pissed, I came home changed m clothes and went to a local gym and lifted weights for an hour, again the wife calls (answered first call but waited till like 5th ring) wanting to know if im alright. Said she just had a bad day, and asked why I was being cold. I said I don't appreciate the way your talking to me, I'm tired of you talking to me like that. I've done nothing wrong and don't deserve to be treated that way. She said she was sorry and that she had a bad day at work, I said all you needed to say was that, instead you gave me everything but......... then one of my kids is calling, wants to know where Im at, I said Im out. i'll be back later.
> 
> By the time I get home, her and one of my kids is gone, my kid is now making me feel guilty about being out. I said why is it if im working on myself with a tan and the gym everyone gets mad at me now?? Response was no one cares what your doing, get over it."
> 
> ...


Tell her you know what she is doing with the kids, and that if she is truly sorry she will stop that kind of action immediately.

Tell her that you two are both the parents and that it's inexcusable for her to alienate them from you.

And once again, you need to pose the question: does she want to work on this marriage or not? If she does, you will commit 100%. If she doesn't or if she tells you to quit bothering her about it, then tell her that she's basically stonewalling you and it will end the marriage.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You did good with your wife.
If she speaks to you badly, cut her off immediately with no explanation, other than stop speaking to me like that and moving about your business.
If your child speaks to you badly, cut off the cell phone.
None of this requires futher discussion an explanation. Just hold your ground on how you will be spoken to and treated.

The first course of business is to accept 50% maximum of the problems in your marriage, and decide that you as the husband are not the automatic scapegoat for all problems... And hold your ground on how you are treated.

This is why you are being advised to move into the bedroom. Your wife does not have a birthright to the marital bed. Tell her she can sleep on the couch. The more confident you are, and the less tolerant you are of accepting more than 50% of the blame, this sets the tone for the rest of your life.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

wilderness said:


> She is a married woman with children and you should be demanding that she act like it.


Yeah. That'll work right about now. Get tough and demanding.



I've been on this and other sites a lot longer than 2 months. Even longer than my almost 3 years from my sign up date implies. I'm dealing with my very own walk-away wife (look it up. Study it. That's what you've got). 

I have yet to hear anyone come back and say they won their wife back after this. It just doesn't happen. And before all of the "you just don't hear about it because when things get fixed people don't take the time to tell you the good results" crowd jumps in, I'll admit there's a LITTLE validity to that. But:

1 - Many people who have received help on these forums come back to give updates on their success/failure at what it is they tried to achieve.

2 - I've read MANY "my wife left, can I get her back?" threads. The best you will see is "it's better, but we still have a long way to go".

Do the 180, but ignore the part that says "and if she see's a better you, she may come along". It doesn't happen. The 180 is ALL about you. It has NOTHING to do with her.

My wife is at least civil to me. She'll give me sex almost any time I want it (although the rapey aspect of screwing someone you know is repulsed by you has finally overcome my horniness and I haven't asked her in months).

Time for you and your kids. And cut back on the work (is 100 hours a week even POSSIBLE? 15 hours a day, 7 days a week? Maybe a LITTLE exaggerated?).


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

hmmm.....many walk-aways leave because there is emotional abuse & controlling behavior. Does this apply to you? Be honest.

I am a walk-away due to that after 22 years. We both worked full time + & our kids were very involved in multiple activities. We were both stressed out, tired, burnt out, etc. & had the husband treated me with respect free of abuse I would never have left.

I guess what I want to say is that the working/children's activities aspect was not the demise of my marriage.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> Tonight I got so upset the way she was talking at me, cold and hurtful. That I got kinda got pissed and went kinda silent, got in my truck, drove around and decided to go tanning to get out of the house. The phone started ringing (answered on third call)and it was her wanting to know where I was at.......Im just out. It felt kinda relaxing just to get out, but I was still pissed, I came home changed m clothes and went to a local gym and lifted weights for an hour, again the wife calls (answered first call but waited till like 5th ring) wanting to know if im alright. Said she just had a bad day, and asked why I was being cold. I said I don't appreciate the way your talking to me, I'm tired of you talking to me like that. I've done nothing wrong and don't deserve to be treated that way. She said she was sorry and that she had a bad day at work, I said all you needed to say was that, instead you gave me everything but......... then one of my kids is calling, wants to know where Im at, I said Im out. i'll be back later.
> 
> By the time I get home, her and one of my kids is gone, my kid is now making me feel guilty about being out. I said why is it if im working on myself with a tan and the gym everyone gets mad at me now?? Response was no one cares what your doing, get over it."
> 
> ...


Her wanting to know where you are and what you are doing makes me think she still loves you. You need to make her think she could lose you. Let her know you love her, but you are not going to be her b!tch.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Hicks said:


> You did good with your wife.
> If she speaks to you badly, cut her off immediately with no explanation, other than stop speaking to me like that and moving about your business.
> If your child speaks to you badly, cut off the cell phone.
> None of this requires futher discussion an explanation. Just hold your ground on how you will be spoken to and treated.
> ...


:iagree:
Plus a strong man is more desirable.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

Emerald said:


> because there is emotional abuse & controlling behavior. Does this apply to you? Be honest


Being honest, no, but I cant tell you what she is seeing either. I mean I have to be tough at work, maybe some of that carries over. But she's blamed me for a lot of stuff the last couple of months, and she hasn't hit me with those yet anyways.

I'm so tired at work today, I feel like im giving up and this is all pointless, why try. Then something kicks in and I get upset again at the whole scenario. This ping ponging really sucks. 5 days of school left.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

Thound said:


> :iagree:
> Plus a strong man is more desirable.


I don't see any desire, I think the quote about doing the 180 ONLY for myself is right on. I guess building that wall up helps with the sting, but the sting is STILL there.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

I have to admit I've had some really bad thoughts go thru my head. I need to try to get better control. I'm so tired im not thinking straight myself right now. Are the bad thoughts, suicide a common trait during times like this? Don't worry I don't think I could do it, but its crazy my mind if goes there.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> I have to admit I've had some really bad thoughts go thru my head. I need to try to get better control. I'm so tired im not thinking straight myself right now. Are the bad thoughts, suicide a common trait during times like this? Don't worry I don't think I could do it, but its crazy my mind if goes there.


I had those thoughts as well. More than likely it's you wanting to make her sorry for hurting you. And she probably would be upset for awhile. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. If you truly feel suicidal please go get help immediately!!!


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> I don't see any desire, I think the quote about doing the 180 ONLY for myself is right on. I guess building that wall up helps with the sting, but the sting is STILL there.


It is going to take a while. This SH!t didn't start in one day, and it is going to take some time to resolve. I have been going thru this for 10 years. Up until March when I found this site. Since I have been applying things I have learned here, things have been getting better. Lots of great people here with great advice.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Suicidal thinking is usually a symptom when you are reaching the end of your ability to cope in a certain area. Very much worth talking to someone about...and no they won't involuntarily commit you for mentioning that" This is so hard for me, it makes me want to die."..that's different then..."I've been obsessing over death for some time and I am starting to make plans for it." If you talk to a counselor ask he/she ways to cope better through this turmoil.

I would have a convo with the wife saying that you are sharing some major marital strain...but it is a way too heavy emotional burden on the kids to dump this on them. THE KIDS SHOULD NEVER BE A DUMPING GROUND OR COUNTERFEIT COUNSELOR. If she wants to talk to someone about the marriage, then she needs to talk to a counselor...not the kids.

The fact that you took some alone time...and that she almost automatically responded with insecurity...could mean she still cares. Either that is just not ready emotionally to deal with a huge life-upheaval with kids still in the mix and not having planned her exit strategy yet.

But I agree...DO NOT PLAY BY HER RULES. Her threats of leaving cast a spell of power that you now greatly fear...which almost forces you into this game of slow death where she will end up the winner. Jump off this game board, face your ultimate fears, and take care of what you need to take care of. When she is ready to talk and ask "What's going on with you?"
Say, 

"I've been meditating on a lot of what you have said about this marriage...and I am sorry for all that I know is my responsibility (and state the areas showing her that indeed you have been reflecting on them), and I am doing what I can to change those areas...and not just to make you happy, but to acknowledge that I am tired and stressed-out too...and I can't take care of anything if I can't take care of myself first. Again, i am sorry for things I am responsible for, but I am not going to be responsible for your decision to pull out emotionally in this...THAT is your choice...THAT's on YOU. I can't force you to stay, I can't force you to want to work on this marriage like I do...but if you change your mind, I'd like to address each and everything to make the rest of our years more balanced and happy. But if you are wanting to leave, don't stick around for may benefit or the kids' 'cos the way you have been using them for emotional support is WRONG, and you know it. They can't handle it...not yet. And I don't appreciate them for coming at me like an enemy, when it is not ME that wants to leave. Do you tell them that part? I didn't think so. So I release you to your choice...I'll give you the freedom that you want. Tell me as soon as you can about your plans 'cos I want our D to be as amicable as much as possible. But if you are feeling unhappy, scared, hopeless, and worn-out I want to address those with you...and not just see us bail out of this marriage after so many years."

Read Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson (even thought it is about infidelity...it is a marvel at understanding how and why spouses get claustrophobic in marriage, what their thinking patterns are, and how to pull away that will draw them back in. Her flipping out on you when you went out that evening is a good example of that.
Read also Boundaries in Marriage...great book on defining personal responsibility. Your marriage also may be dealing with some codependency...so that may be something to look up books on.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

i found a therapist that said get your butt in here today, i'll make time for you after work today. So im going. we'll see what she says. still trying to figure out if I can handle being in the house at this point, she's so cold, I cant believe this is the same person sometimes. Im physically too tired to stay strong mentally im afraid.
If im being honest with myself anyways. Im worn so thin, im not sure how I can keep up with this stratedgy. Maybe im expecting for her to just wake up and say lets work on it (foolish pride?)


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> i found a therapist that said get your butt in here today, i'll make time for you after work today. So im going. we'll see what she says. still trying to figure out if I can handle being in the house at this point, she's so cold, I cant believe this is the same person sometimes. Im physically too tired to stay strong mentally im afraid.
> If im being honest with myself anyways. Im worn so thin, im not sure how I can keep up with this stratedgy. Maybe im expecting for her to just wake up and say lets work on it (foolish pride?)


Best wishes. You will be ok. Just take it one day at a time.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

well she didn't really want to guess, but I was kinda pressuring into some answers, she kept saying she didn't have enough information to even harbor an educated guess. lol but if I pressure my wife like ive been pressuring her then it is over. So I guess I am kinda impatient. So I've got that going for me..........(caddyshack)

Anyways got home, dinner was done, you could hear crickets having sex, at least someone was. Heard her tell one of the kids she was done, im gonna move out next week.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> well she didn't really want to guess, but I was kinda pressuring into some answers, she kept saying she didn't have enough information to even harbor an educated guess. lol but if I pressure my wife like ive been pressuring her then it is over. So I guess I am kinda impatient. So I've got that going for me..........(caddyshack)
> 
> Anyways got home, dinner was done, you could hear crickets having sex, at least someone was. Heard her tell one of the kids she was done, im gonna move out next week.


May just be venting, maybe not. Just let her k.ow you love her, but you are not going to be her b!tech. Also let her know cheating will not.be tolerated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rollin (May 18, 2013)

She was done? what does that mean?

either way, you need to set her straight and tell her that her attitude is unacceptable


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## Rollin (May 18, 2013)

btw you shouldn't be moving out, she should. also if she is serious then you take the next step and file.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

ImInShock said:


> well she didn't really want to guess, but I was kinda pressuring into some answers, she kept saying she didn't have enough information to even harbor an educated guess. lol but if I pressure my wife like ive been pressuring her then it is over. So I guess I am kinda impatient. So I've got that going for me..........(caddyshack)
> 
> Anyways got home, dinner was done, you could hear crickets having sex, at least someone was. Heard her tell one of the kids she was done, im gonna move out next week.


wait.. who is going to move out next week, you or her? I know that you rent, but still, whatever you do, do NOT be the one to move out. You will regret it more than you can imagine.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Rollin said:


> She was done? what does that mean?
> 
> either way, you need to set her straight and tell her that her attitude is unacceptable


:scratchhead:


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

Im moving out, she will not leave, as her only 2 friends in the world actually are our neighbors. I really hate this renting lifestyle, and always wanted a house to call home, she's never wanted to be "fixed to a location". Even the therapist said a month break might be good to unwind, her or me, either, since she wont, I will. I plan on coming back in 30 days. It might even be a reason the kids do so much sports, we're not stuck fixing up some place we don't really have a connection too, at least if we had something that was our, the investment is more than money, its a connection.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> Im moving out, she will not leave, as her only 2 friends in the world actually are our neighbors. I really hate this renting lifestyle, and always wanted a house to call home, she's never wanted to be "fixed to a location". Even the therapist said a month break might be good to unwind, her or me, either, since she wont, I will. I plan on coming back in 30 days. It might even be a reason the kids do so much sports, we're not stuck fixing up some place we don't really have a connection too, at least if we had something that was our, the investment is more than money, its a connection.


I personally wouldn't do that, but YOU have to do what's right for You. And maybe that's the reason it has taken me 10 years to make progress. Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Moving out is about the worst decision you can make right now. Please don't do that.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Sorry your having a rough time, get busy living, with or without your wife, life is mighty damn fine.


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## Rollin (May 18, 2013)

Whats her reaction to the separation?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You have no time to help your marriage.

But you're crying about your broken marriage.

Wow. 

That sentence right there angers me.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

This is the advice I was given by my therapist, move out for 30 days. Its not like im moving out forever. She didn't care if I stayed, moved or died in a car accident. Therapist said give it a little space and time, then come back and work on it. Its too toxic to address for the time being, only time and space will allow her to process a few things, not me in her face pressuring her to do something she doesn't want to do. Made sense to me.

AS far as no time, yes I still have no time as I've taking over all responsibility while she checks out permanently. That doesn't mean I gave up. I don't understand your anger, come live in my shoes, with the disconnect, the not caring, even about the kids right now. I'm doing what I was told can only let the situation calm down a bit before pressing it to the next step.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

That's not what you said.

You said she didn't want to take counseling because you didn't have the time.

If it's how you explained, then fine. I get it. But that's not having time, that's not having a spouse to work things out with.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

that_girl said:


> That's not what you said.
> 
> You said she didn't want to take counseling because you didn't have the time.



Hmmm Im not sure where u read that when I just said the previous point I WENT TO A COUNSELOR??? she wouldn't come so I went myself???

Now im confused, but then sorry, im not really adjusting to this well, im just now attacking the marriage as I wasted 6 weeks trying to find out if she was cheating or not.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ImInShock said:


> I WENT TO A COUNSELOR??? she wouldn't come so I went myself???
> 
> ... im just now attacking the marriage as* I wasted 6 weeks* trying to find out if she was cheating or not.


Look, I'm not here to attack you. But you have been to a counselor one time. I applaud you for getting help. But it sounds as if you were so busy working and being there for your kids, your wife kinda got left behind in the dust.

The marriage is in the crapper and you are just waking up to that reality.

And, NO, it is not a waste of time to discover whether or not your wife is cheating. However, if you find verifying it was a waste, so be it.

Here is my gut instinct on this situation. Your wife didn't speak to you when things bothered her. She pulled the passive-aggressive stuff, which left you wondering WTF was going on.

You, on the other hand, busied yourself with everything but your wife. After all, she wasn't giving you clear signals as to what was bothering her.

But neither of you sat down. You avoided.

There is blame on the floor. Pick up the pieces you own. Leave your wife to pick up here pieces, if she so desires.

But, like it or not, that_girl has hit a nerve. Why? Because there is probably some truth in what she has said.

You don't agree? Fine. But I think you need to own your share of the blame for this situation. No, you don't need to beat yourself up. But you can't minimize either.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Shocked, as I get older, I realize that most guys probably aren't intended by nature to be married. 80 to 90 hours a week of work is simply insane. That's what deployed REMFs work and they have no family to worry about.

Your wife is most likely done, and yes someone else is on her radar and that's helped her come to this decision at this time. She's probably tired of wearing the pants in the family anyway.

Do women ever hit on you?


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

ImInShock,
One of the biggest reasons we're all hollering at you not to be the one to move out is that when a man does it, he almost always loses access to his children thanks to the way family courts work, and to make it worse he's ordered to keep paying the mortgage indefinitely while his wife is free to move a new guy in with her kids into the house he is stuck paying for...

In your case there may be a couple mitigating factors - the ages of your kids, and the fact you are renting. Since you've already moved out, and honestly you sound shell shocked and battered and need someplace safe, I'm going change gears and ask that you do this one thing instead - consult with a Divorce attorney as soon as you can - just a consultation and preferably with the meanest shark of a lawyer who KNOWS the local courts and judges well - and do the following: 

Ask him (or her) about what you need to do to 1) not give up access to your children (it sounds like they may be old enough where their choice is going to be the overriding factor in the determination ) and 2) what strategic preparations you can make to prevent her from cleaning you out financially, etc in the near term.

You need to get some rest and your head above water.


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## ImInShock (May 28, 2013)

I take full responsibility for my half of the situation, the problem I have with it, she dropped hints I guess, the lack of communication is stunning. I cant read her mind, I need more than some hints. Her telling me in the past that she had a "problem" was always met with me rising to the occasion and addressing her concerns head on. Why did that stop? I haven't moved out yet, that was going to happen this upcoming week.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I wasted 6 weeks, but I knew enough after 2, that I could have been working on the issues a month earlier is all. And im frustrated that those 4 weeks could have helped make a difference. Its a regret that I waited too long is all. Reading here, there are some posters that seem a little more bitter than others is why, its always that someone is cheating first, second, and third, and although that might be true, for someone just going thru it for the first time, it sets itself for panic, fear, anger, and especially the betrayal start to take over instead of getting a more constructive start to address the issues. I don't know, its all so darn overwhelming.

I'm learning, especially thru these posts, to just SLOW IT ALL DOWN, take some time to think what you want and how you want to attack it.


I don't mean posters in this thread btw, I meant all the reading I did before I decided to post, from other likewise threads.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

There's no reason you couldn't be monitoring and working on your marriage at the same time. But that is over and done now so no use crying over it. Frankly, your writing has become more confused sounding as time has progressed. This says to me that you are not getting enough rest (as you've stated). You MUST find a way to get more rest. You will not be able to resolve anything with your current mental state. If you need to move out for awhile to do it, then so be it, BUT you need to reduce your work schedule. This should be the biggest priority for you right now, in my opinion. You will not be able to focus on anything else if you continue to work 80+ hours per week. 

the person that asked if it was even possible, yes it is, but it takes a toll in a short amount of time. Hire a maid and a nanny. If you both work such successful careers, you should be able to afford it. 

Cut your hours.

Cut your hours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

You probably can't save this situation, but the way to do it (I should say the only minute unlikely chance you have) is highly counterintuitive.

One element is simple common sense is that you go back to the master bedroom, tonight. If she wants a split then that needs to be forced on her to be the one to split. She has to wear being the one who left. Keep a VAR on your person at all times.

Now for the counterintuitive part:

1.Start working a realistic schedule so you can be around.

2.Don't talk about the relationship. Period. Women always fantasize about a guy who talks about the relationship, but in reality it's a huge turn-off. Kind of like their rape fantasies. Act like your relationship problems aren't even on your radar. If she brings it up, listen with interest. Don't be drawn in, though. When she complains about stuff that's invalid, say "I'm sorry you feel that way." Go no further, do not elaborate. If she complains about something that's valid, say "I'm taking steps to change that." Keep a smiling face and a frosty cool demeanor at all times, like a man who has options. When you have options, you're not to invested in something that might not be fixable. Guard your real feelings and reasons for doing things. Never be provoked.

3.Start bodybuilding. 90% of it is diet. Paleo, Slow Carb, or Atkins will get you a six pack or close enough. You want 10% bodyfat. Since time is an issue, I recommend HIT. Each workout is about 15 minutes and if you do it right, you'll be on your ass. You want a lean physique with as much muscle as you can pack on. Golden Ratio is the target because it has been shown to visually trigger the autonomic female sexual response.

4.Upgrade your wardrobe to that of a guy ten years younger and making 2X the $. Look around at places like this website for ideas. Avoid Esquire or GQ recommendations (for obvious reasons). Start wearing a jacket at every opportunity, even if you're the only guy doing it.

5.Change your ride. A classic Mustang, hot rod, a Harley.

6.Change your hair. You don't have to like it, just make it different.

7.Look at the great response you got from one trip out on your own to the gym. She lit up your phone. You need to continue that. Go out to workout, go out to hear live music late at night and be dressed sharp. Ride your Harley. If she asks where you're going, just say "Out for a while, do you want to come?" If she says yes, tell her to hurry. If she declines, just say "I'll be back later." If she accuses you of being bad, agree and amplify in good humor. Never be provoked.

All the above raises your attractiveness to her. Limbic triggers generate female interest, so pour on the Alpha.

8.Continue to monitor her activities, just at a lower level of intensity. The CIA may be incorrigibly inept, but we still keep it operating, even in peacetime. 

Your wife probably won't come back to you, but the above is the best path to walk down in the hopes of that outcome.


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## wifeiam (Apr 1, 2013)

ImInShock said:


> Ok, let me start by saying I've been lurking these forums now for almost 2 months.
> 
> My wife and I have been married 18 years, together 21, and have two teenage kids. We've had the typical marriage I guess.
> I have a pretty high demand hours job, 80-90 hours a week can be routine. My wife has a management job, that can also be quiet stressful. Our kids are HEAVILY into sports, and have been for 10 years. My wife and I have never really had time for ourselves, but my wife has probably had even less due to all the practices, games, school functions, sleepovers, braces appt. etc etc. Least I went to work and got to stay there. We put 80,000 miles on her car last year for practices and games.
> ...


Stop all the kids activities, maybe let them each do one thing and they have to help with finding carpool rides, etc.., if she is really done not much you can do though


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

ImInShock said:


> The sex obviously dropped from before the kids were born.
> 
> It dropped to 3-4 a month maybe, but we haven't had sex in 2 months now. Tried not to pressure her there, but would instead try a foot/back message, which she will no longer accept either.


Oh....That normally indicates a Red Flag.

Check if there is someone else she might be in love with. It is that or a depression.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't know about not talking about the relationship.

I'm going through a divorce and it would be REFRESHING if he brought something up once in a while. Showing that he's invested or was here or actually did listen once in a while.

It's all circumstantial. I think you SHOULD talk about it...but it's up to what you feel is right.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

IIS

I have to say one thing to you.

Maybe your wife is burned out. Maybe she has been throwing hints for months maybe years.

But if she is the one checked out of the marriage, if she is the one telling your kids she is done with the marriage ( real mature of her ) then you shoud go home, go into the bedroom and hand her a few hefty trash bags.

Tell her you love her but will no longer tolerate her attitude.

If she wants out then tell her to throw her clothes in the bags and leave.

And if she involves the kids again do not turn off their phones. Tell your wife to take them with her.

If she balks tell her if she does not want to work on the marriage then just go.

Try it. You have nothing to lose.

And get a good nights sleep in your bed.

Then tomorrow go see an attorney.

HM


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