# does it help to have god in your marriage?



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I have four older sisters. Two married and two divorced. The two that are still married (for 10+ years) are both very religious. The other two are not. one believes in god, but that's it, and the other is pretty much atheist. 

Now, being the youngest I always watch and try to learn from my sisters. I cant help but feel there must be something to having religion in one's marriage (or just relationship). And I dont mean those who believe in god but never go to church or read the bible. My two oldests sisters go to church every sunday, are active in their church, and pray and read scriptures together. they've both had some pretty significant issues in their marriages, but have made it through. The two that dont go to church, well, they just fell apart. 

So what do you think? is it true that those that pray together stay together? from my experience, that seems to be the case.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Depends, do the two who are not religious specifically because they have felt abandoned by God? And the two who are religious, feel God is their refuge?

Not sure if that is a factor or not. But I wonder.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Interesting question. In my case, yes it has an impact. But from a different angle than M22. My wife and I were born and raised in the same faith. (Roman Catholic) My faith has always been stronger than hers and when we met she had been away from the church a long time. With our union she began to go again but our base concepts of faith have some differences. She does not believe in divine intervention, I do. As such during our most difficult times (verge of divorce) I turned to prayer for guidance and support. Without the support of that faith I believe I would have given up on the marriage. I absolutely believe that that faith helped carry me through the most difficult of times. I have enough belief in this that I include the word “Faith” in my signature line.

On a more general view of the question I believe that people of faith do have an extra line of support and that is their clergy and fellow believers. Most religions condemn or at least look down on divorce so the person of faith has an additional hurdle to cross in making a decision to divorce. In deciding to divorce there are several barriers that need to be crossed. There are moral barriers, financial barriers, family barriers, loyalty barriers, parenting barriers… But the person of faith has that extra one. To go against their religious beliefs in divorce. I would bet it’s a barrier that many didn’t cross and in the end may have turned the marriage around because of it.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

If a husband and wife are people of faith, by default if nothing else is working, they have that common bond. And oftentimes simply being able to find that place where the two can agree, talk, and interact can form the baseline for healing. Faith also provides ground rules that you can follow - to better yourself, and your marriage or relationships. By it's nature, faith is about forming, and sharing a bond with something more significant than oneself.

Overall I would say that it is a very positive influence. I would argue that it has far more benefits for the family dynamic than it does drawbacks, despite the fact that the 12 of the primary players abandoned their families to go on walkabout with a stranger ;-)

It's not a sure thing though. Our family was (and still is) pretty active in our church - but we are no longer trying to reconcile.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

mommy22 said:


> Christ is the example of agape love in my marriage. I can't achieve that on my own.


yes, this is what i think it is. i watched that movie Fire Proof and i was really struck when he said, "You cant give what you dont have." And i thought, my god you're right. i feel like ive been trying to get that kind of love from my spouse and im realizing that is not possible. so im wondering if religion helps because people have a place to get that kind of love, so they can give it, and so they can give their spouse a break when they dont get it.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Amplexor said:


> Most religions condemn or at least look down on divorce so the person of faith has an additional hurdle to cross in making a decision to divorce.


ya, that is the case with my oldest two that are married. It would have to be something pretty extreme for them to get a divorce. i know that has its down sides, but i think its a good thing actually.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Deejo said:


> it does drawbacks, despite the fact that the 12 of the primary players abandoned their families to go on walkabout with a stranger ;-)


ya, that is pretty ironic isnt it. im sorry that you are not going to reconcile. i realize its not a full proof plan, but it seems like it helps in marriage to be religious in a lot of cases.


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## Unit4 (Mar 15, 2009)

I think its interesting how the OP is about God, or thiesm, and many of the posts focus on "faith". Having faith does not require God. It requires beliefs. So to answer whether having God in a marriage helps, I'm not so sure. An agreeable set of beliefs sure does, but many modern women don't take holy subjugation to thier husbands too seriously. From the counciling, and my own long held perspective, equality is more the focus than it would be under God's roof. I think I like it that way better on the whole, but I would agree that "Godly" faith in staying together, without struggling for cause as counciling would have us do, can lead to a better, less selfish, outcome. 

As an athiest man married to a woman who goes to church, all covered on our second date 17 years ago, I do feel I've received the benefit of blind support that comes from her faith. However, it doesn't stop issues from festering inside of her. I'd say the church errs on the idea of accomodating unity in suffering, while sending a message that those who pursue their feelings are shallow, or out to feel good.

...time for another solo trip to the watercooler.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

my world experience strongly suggests that many people of faith carry in their heart a vision of a forgiving powerful and ordered god, a god who has an immediate and omnipotent view of our history and future, and this vision propells them from their first days to their last and allows them to breath easy knowing they're not the unmoved mover, but they ultimately will be where their god expects them to be. 

so it is with marriage: they have faith beyond human understanding that god will make a way through tribulation with annointing and forgiveness.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

total aetheist here, but everyone has a right to believe what they think is right for them in their life.


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## wonder (Jun 30, 2008)

i don't know if god helps. all i know is i have no faith anymore, i've been screwed over way too many times


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

i'm sorry you've been 'screwed over' so many times. i hope (very different from faith) that it never happens to you again.

i write this with a helpful and not a critical spirit. there's a world of difference between faith and trust, and you have to wonder (excuse the pun) who the common denominator is in all of these 'screwed over' events.

once bitten, twice shy, and all that.

and yes, those who believe in god often speak of 'having faith', and often when referring to those who believe in god, one might refer to them as 'people of faith'.

the ontological argument about the relationship between faith, or lack thereof, and god, or lack thereof, is frankly a conversation i will avoid at all cost.

well, maybe.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Unit4 said:


> many modern women don't take holy subjugation to thier husbands too seriously.


My oldest sister would be included in that. she is religious, but i can tell you she wears the pants in that family. she's a career women, wife, and mother of two. Personally i think she's just amazing. but she goes against a lot of the beliefs of what a women should be in her religion. her husband had a problem with her working at first, but you know, they worked through it. 



Unit4 said:


> However, it doesn't stop issues from festering inside of her. I'd say the church errs on the idea of accomodating unity in suffering, while sending a message that those who pursue their feelings are shallow, or out to feel good.


Ya, i can see what you mean. i have really noticed that myself and was raised in that kind of environment. But the more i watch and listen the more i notice that its more a personality defect of the person that latches on to a certain aspect of the concept, and takes it to an extreme. so it doesnt have as much to do with the concept given by the church as it does the predisposition of a personality defect in the person hearing the message. Because i can tell you, my oldest sister wouldnt buy that for a second. She is all about meeting her needs. but my second oldest really struggles with that. she doesnt really know how to stand up for herself. and my mom, well, she's pretty much hopelessly devoid of boundaries. all three are religious, but all three hear that same message of selflessness and go to different extremes with it. and i sit back and watch to see which one works out. lol. they all stayed married, but of course the quality of their lives and marriage varied. 

but the difference is, the two sisters that are divorced, it didnt matter which way they took that message. they both divorced. one is completely defunct and, like my mom, devoid of boundaries. she thought she should be completely selfless towards her spouse. she has no clue how to stand up for herself. the other one, well she went the other extreme, like my oldest sister, and thought she should always have her needs met. 

its the same concept of selflessness and selfishness in all four marriages, but for some reason the religious ones seem to make it work, no matter which way they take it. the quality of the marriage varies depending on the take, of course, but then my two divorced sisters are no happier now then they were when they were married.


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## LaBella (Mar 9, 2009)

recent_cloud said:


> many people of faith carry in their heart a vision of a forgiving powerful and ordered god, a god who has an immediate and omnipotent view of our history and future, and this vision propells them from their first days to their last and allows them to breath easy knowing they're not the unmoved mover, but they ultimately will be where their god expects them to be. .


I agree with recent cloud here. To me God is the one the I turned to for absolutely everything, I am a roman catholic, but I am talking as the God of everybody, regardless of the religion, there is only one God that each person/religion devotes themselves to. Each person devote to him in his/her own way. To me God gives you bumps on the road, it is up to you how you work around them, but with faith that you can do it then it will work out for the best, may that best be good or bad, only you know, your actions will give you that answer. I personally believe that if you go into it with faith and positivism then things will work out for the best.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Blanca said:


> I have four older sisters. Two married and two divorced. The two that are still married (for 10+ years) are both very religious. The other two are not. one believes in god, but that's it, and the other is pretty much atheist.
> 
> Now, being the youngest I always watch and try to learn from my sisters. I cant help but feel there must be something to having religion in one's marriage (or just relationship). And I dont mean those who believe in god but never go to church or read the bible. My two oldests sisters go to church every sunday, are active in their church, and pray and read scriptures together. they've both had some pretty significant issues in their marriages, but have made it through. The two that dont go to church, well, they just fell apart.
> 
> So what do you think? is it true that those that pray together stay together? from my experience, that seems to be the case.



I think its important for every indivdual to have a RELATIONSHIP
with a higher power, god, budda, or whoever it may be... Religion isn't the answer as relagious people tend to be arguementive, stuck up and very judgemental.
I feel that the more balanced people are in their RELATIONSHIP with God ( or whoever they bow to) is what matters...
realtionship, not religion.
excuse my typos, sick as a dog today


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## Tr000thSeeker (May 11, 2009)

Any ideology (including a godless one) plays a part in marriage dynamics.
I personally know of people who are committed to their ideology but differ with their spouse on _what exactly_ God requires of them in a marriage.
The example of a messy spouse is a very tricky one! No ideology claims that it is _morally_ wrong to be messy.
My point....when people start inventing their own rules about the precepts of justice and patience, the potential for reconciliation goes down, regardless of the individuals' ideology (including a godless one).
Conclusion: the correct understanding (and implementation) of *justice* and *patience* makes/breaks the marriage.
NOTE: I personally believe that people who rely on the logical understanding of the concept of The Creator and The Creator's definition of justice and patience, are at an advantage in maintaining a stable and healthy marriage.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Well I am not religious at all, I would say I am more Deist then anything else, Pretty much, GOD created us/the world...then left us alone to figure things out...he will not fix anything, doom anything, etc....life is a series of challanges and changes, you always have a choice, always.

Do the right thing or wrong thing? Should I stay or Should I go? Should I brush my teeth, should I not? Should I fart in the pool or not? everything is a choice.

Relationships are choices, you make choices with your partner. You decide what you want or don't want.

Now, religion CAN help you make solid decisions for the better....or for the worse, like staying in an abusive relationship. How many people through the years stayed with a Spoused who was abusing them becuase they were afraid of the stigma of divorce?? This was huge back before the 1970's.

If faith helps you get throught he day and make you a better person, then I am all for it, If your faith tells you to knock the crap out of your wife for looking at another male, well then I am against it.

It boils down to the person and what they need personally. Some people use church as an "excape" to clear their mind, give them some direction, that is good. I am all for it.

I been with my wife for over half my wife with no end in sight, not sure why we work, but we do.....it was a good choice for both of us.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> Well I am not religious at all, I would say I am more Deist then anything else, Pretty much, GOD created us/the world...then left us alone to figure things out...he will not fix anything, doom anything, etc....life is a series of challanges and changes, you always have a choice, always.
> 
> Do the right thing or wrong thing? Should I stay or Should I go? Should I brush my teeth, should I not? Should I fart in the pool or not? everything is a choice.
> 
> ...


soccerman,
you would have fun in a free will debate..."fart in the pool?!?!" i'd love to hear matt slick on that!!!!


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

I farted in the pool because Jesus told me to.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

preso said:


> relagious people tend to be arguementive, stuck up and very judgemental.


really...the religious one's huh...you're not being judgmental when you say that now are you


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

LaBella said:


> To me God gives you bumps on the road, it is up to you how you work around them, but with faith that you can do it then it will work out for the best, may that best be good or bad, only you know, your actions will give you that answer. I personally believe that if you go into it with faith and positivism then things will work out for the best.


ya, this is also something Ive noticed that has helped. it seems to really help to think that god gave one these trials, and that the trials are not in vane, and that there is a solution out there that god can help one find. that seems to be a big thing, too. and of course the focus is on finding the solution in the marriage.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> Do the right thing or wrong thing? Should I stay or Should I go? Should I brush my teeth, should I not? Should I fart in the pool or not? everything is a choice.


:rofl:



GAsoccerman said:


> religion CAN help you make solid decisions for the better....or for the worse, like staying in an abusive relationship. How many people through the years stayed with a Spoused who was abusing them becuase they were afraid of the stigma of divorce?? This was huge back before the 1970's.


Ya, ive thought about this aspect a lot. i think its a big fear of people these days that they are allowing themselves to be abused. Its complicated to me though.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Blanca said:


> really...the religious one's huh...you're not being judgmental when you say that now are you


ah, feelin slightly better today.

In countries that are super religious like the middle east, you will also find war on all levels ( in the home, on the streets)
Overly religious people are known to be war mongers, abusers and even killers.

For me.... I avoid relgious people, I find most of them are not very bright, creative or able to think on their own.
It is the relationship with God that makes someone not only happier, but wiser and more balanced.

I would not have married my husband if he did not believe in God and have a personal relationship with him.... I also believe that because he does, he is and has a rare quality which most men don't have, being emotional maturity. If it were not for that, I'd not involved myself with him or married him.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

you might not like this, but God IS in your marriage. you can't decide that.

another view: to answer the title of the thread...it can't HURT to have Him in your marriage.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

preso said:


> For me.... I avoid relgious people, I find most of them are not very bright, creative or able to think on their own.


lol. I used to think this for awhile, too. Its one of the things that drove me away in the first place. I left to find rational people, unfortunately I only found blind, ignorant, and quite irrational followers of the other 'god': science. No matter where one goes there are those who are not terribly bright in following their 'god'. 



preso said:


> I also believe that because he does, he is and has a rare quality which most men don't have, being emotional maturity. If it were not for that, I'd not involved myself with him or married him.


That's sweet. I understand what you mean. My H also believes in God. we both do. I do think those who develop a personal relationship with god are more mature. but i often wonder if its enough just to believe and have a relationship. I cannot think of anything in life that one is not required to actually do something in order to gain something. there are restrictions, guidelines, goals, objectives to everything in life. I can only think that if there was a god, and he did put us here, there would be things he would want us to do. and i can only imagine, just like everything else in life, there would be a certain way to do them. albeit that way may be different for everyone, but there would still be a way.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Blanca said:


> but i often wonder if its enough just to believe and have a relationship. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> If you question if a relationship with God is enough, you do not know God or have a relationship with him.
> ...


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

That is why I often go with Deism, belief in god but no formal religion.

While I respect others religion and point of views, I have studied many of them while in college. I firmly believe no religion can be "right" and the others "wrong"

I think religion is good thing for many many people and it can really keep people focused and teach them right from wrong, but also religion has been abused and manipulated by some for sending the wrong message and their own agenda's.

Here is a deist website, if you wish to know what is the definition and what it is about, not promoting it, just giving info, I want you to do what is best for you and your situation.

Deism Defined, Welcome to Deism, Deist Glossary and Frequently Asked Questions


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> I firmly believe no religion can be "right" and the others "wrong"


really. so that would make you right, and the ones that think they are right, wrong, is that right?


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Blanca, no I never said I was "right"

I am just saying I have a very hard time when Christians say they are right and Muslims are going to hell.

Or Muslims say they are right and Christians are going to hell.

etc.

The world has hundreds of different religions and different variables of them, not 1 can be perfectly correct.

I ahve a hard time with someone saying that their religion is right and everyone else is wrong.

Why can't we accept those who are different then us and respect their beliefs? why do we have to be wrong or rigth?

Can't I share a beer with a Hindu, Bhuddist, Muslim, Wiccan, Baptist, methodist, jewish and Catholic at the bar? Throw in a atheist while your at it.

Different people and different views, we should accept who they are and respect them, simple as that.

I can't tell you how many times I have been shunned in Georgia for being a catholic or a "non-baptist"...it's like I have the plague, comming from NJ I found it funny actually....it's like I am the boogie man...lol

But I will be the first person to help them when their car breaks down, or their computer needs a fix, or a tree falls from a storm....but hey I am still going to hell.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

GAsoccerman said:


> Blanca, no I never said I was "right"
> 
> I am just saying I have a very hard time when Christians say they are right and Muslims are going to hell.
> 
> ...


You must live in a very small town.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> Blanca, no I never said I was "right"


ya i know. sorry about that last post. I was feeling ornery and argumentative. 

I dont know that there is a right or a wrong one either. only that different things work for different people, and that opposition is part of life.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

mommy22 said:


> I think much of the problem is one of convienience. People don't want to take the time to learn and grow. It's easier just to listen to someone else talk and do the thinking for you, you know? This concept is lost on me entirely. Why follow something when you don't really understand it? Finding new revelations is exciting. I had an aunt who said she'd read the Bible already-- that there was nothing new to learn. I can't relate. I glean something new from it daily.


ya i know what you mean. My mom is one who just takes it at face value. I never really understood her. I used to think she was the stereotypical religious nut but now that i know her more as a whole person i realize its just her way of being and ive come to respect that. I tend to border on the extreme of needing to know more, while she just accepts things. so in a way her calm acceptance puts in check my fanatic search for more. 

Thomas Jefferson had a portrait of his opposition, Alexander Hamilton, hanging in his entry way. When i learned about that i thought it was fascinating. I think he recognized that "only that which is the other brings us fully unto ourselves." So that is why i try not to generalize. I recognize that its the struggle with the opposite that brings out life.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Preso, no I live outside of Atlanta....not small at all Suburbia at it's finest.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

GAsoccerman said:


> Preso, no I live outside of Atlanta....not small at all Suburbia at it's finest.


Smallish...
I live in a town much bigger than Atlanta... so those cultural differences are not such a big deal... been around them for a long time.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Ok so i was thinking about it last night and it seems that those who have responded at least believe in god- except justean. But is there anyone out there where both partners are atheist, or indifferent about god, who want to respond? 

i was doing my boundary books again last night with my H and the books are very religion centered. but it seems to help. i always thought religion was just 'pray and you'll get better' which is not realistic nor helpful. but the writers of these books have very practical and good advice. i havent been told to pray once. lol.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Blanca said:


> Ok so i was thinking about it last night and it seems that those who have responded at least believe in god- except justean. But is there anyone out there where both partners are atheist, or indifferent about god, who want to respond?
> 
> i was doing my boundary books again last night with my H and the books are very religion centered. but it seems to help. i always thought religion was just 'pray and you'll get better' which is not realistic nor helpful. but the writers of these books have very practical and good advice. i havent been told to pray once. lol.



boundry books?
what books?... I may want to look into some but didn't know they had any good ones.

About 2 athetists, bet a lot of married attorneys ( married to each other)
would fit into that descrpition 
Anyone who bows to worldy things and loves money... which they base the mariage on.
I say attorneys as that is as opposite to Gods law that you can get... ( mans law is not Gods law)

That would not be for me.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

preso said:


> boundry books?
> what books?... I may want to look into some but didn't know they had any good ones.


My H and i do Boundaries in Marriage book and workbook by dr. cloud and townsend. its religious centered, but the advice is extremely practical. I dont consider myself religious and i still find the advice helpful. 



preso said:


> Anyone who bows to worldy things and loves money... which they base the mariage on.


I know i used to think this, too. I was raised that loving money was so selfish. but then i learned about the four Purusharthas of Hinduism and I thought it was so well rounded. Im sure there are those who abuse anything that they feel will give them power be it money, religion, lusts, education, social status, etc, but i find that the Purusharthas give such a balance to each of those powers and the desire for them. So I used to think those who went after money, like lawyers, were 'bad' but i dont necessarily think that anymore.


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## linliltree (May 19, 2009)

Yes it helps to have God centered in your marriage. When you have relationship with him things work out. Not to say it's always going to be a bed of roses or there will never be problems that arise. But in the end when one recognize that Marriage is a God Covenant between two people, it causes one to be more comitted to both God and their mate.

I am Happily Married for 22 years... and a Pastor.

Best wishes!


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

Preso, I grew up in the shadows of NYC, The difference in Culture between the North East cities and the southern cities is quite different.

I will say I am very happy in Georgia, while people here may be more religious and less accepting of other cultures, they are generally more friendly, I also feel the miniorities have a better chance at education here and matter of fact the upper middle class is mostly black where I am, I am rather impressed with the economic success blacks have in the south compared to the North east where I feel there is more seperation in economic status.

If anything I have learned is our society is more seperated by economic status then "cultural or racial" status, I am grateful my children grow up in a school that has a good demographic of our society.


Blanca, I can say it is safe to say Early religion help mold our society and it's laws, I think Void would agree with me, the core relgions and their "laws" ahve become society wide acceptable laws, Though shall not steal or kill, etc. Religion is the core of our civil society, learning to be merciful and acceptable for our differences, I only et sad when people use religion to seperate society or supress others. Plenty of examples of both. 

But religion is the foundation of our society laws.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> I can't tell you how many times I have been shunned in Georgia for being a catholic or a "non-baptist"...it's like I have the plague, comming from NJ I found it funny actually....it's like I am the boogie man...lol


Are you sure it's not just 'cuz you're from Jersey? 

To answer your question, Blanca; I describe myself as an optimistic agnostic. I was raised Catholic, two uncles that were priests, I was an altar boy, yada yada. Although, my dad was the black-sheep of his family. He never bought into anything simply because he was supposed to.
At my confirmation the cardinal (it was a big deal that Cardinal Madeiros presided over our confirmation) asked if anyone was unsure of their commitment, to stand up. The only thing that kept me from doing so was knowing that my family would be humiliated, and likely beat me senseless.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

GAsoccerman said:


> That is why I often go with Deism, belief in god but no formal religion.
> 
> While I respect others religion and point of views, I have studied many of them while in college. I firmly believe no religion can be "right" and the others "wrong"
> 
> ...


Interesting as I've never heard of that, will save it to read later. I may be one of them as I hate organized religion and churches... but I have a good understanding and knowledge of God and believe in him.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Blanca said:


> but then i learned about the four Purusharthas of Hinduism and I thought it was so well rounded. .


Love of money is considered wrong in just about any religion that believes in one God.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

but the catholic church sure loves my check book, and many baptist churches have ATM's or Credit Card machines in their churches....

If churches didn't beg for my money I think I would respect them more


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> but the catholic church sure loves my check book, and many baptist churches have ATM's or Credit Card machines in their churches....
> 
> If churches didn't beg for my money I think I would respect them more


money is mentioned over 800 times in the bible, more than any other subject...


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

GAsoccerman said:


> but the catholic church sure loves my check book, and many baptist churches have ATM's or Credit Card machines in their churches....
> 
> If churches didn't beg for my money I think I would respect them more



Ga, yeah I know what you mean...

churches seem to be business ventures now, instead of what they are supposed to be, which is why I so dislike churches. 
Churches now are not what they were designed to be, they are cess pools of fraud, deviots who run them...
its sad really. To add to that,
Nothing worse than a born again anything... ugh

religion is not relationship. 
I choose relationship, which I get more from.... and what I think its really about.
Pity those poor fools who think relgion does anything for them. ha...
they are followers looking for answers they will never get.


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## Sufficiently Breathless (May 18, 2009)

ok i usually stay out of religion postings just because I don't like teh conflict that insues.. same with politics.. just keep my mouth shut and don't start anything... 

But I do want to say this. My church passes the collection plate around every sunday.. and every sunday I let it pass by me without a donation. I thought the same way you did... Why should I give my money to a corrupt and dying aspect of human society...

Until this year.. my best friends home burnt down.. The church took money out of its funding to help her find housing, buy new clothes and furniture, and help in anyway possible. Then 2 months later my best friend (yes the same one whos house burnt down) found out her brother in law had been molesting her 7 year old dauther. The church is now donating money to help pay for counseling and court costs for the family. As well as being very supportive of everything. 

So before you go thinking that your dollars are wasted when that donation plate comes your way.. remember the church does help those that need it. Not every church is corrupt.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I was sick at age 19 with cancer and the church did not want to help me, they can go to hell far as I'm concerned.. and I will not donate to any of them. Last thing I need to see is my church leader driving around in a cadillac.
haha

I have seen too many bad things with the church...
I was raised catholic and know guys who used to be alter boys... church is a joke now and false phropets abound in them


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

preso said:


> I was sick at age 19 with cancer and the church did not want to help me, they can go to hell far as I'm concerned..


I know what you mean. I got screwed over by some people in my church, too. It was/is certainly one of my biggest hurdles about going to a church again.

Still, I cannot help but notice the stats in my family are extremely significant when it comes to those who go to organized religion. Perhaps its a familial gene. lol.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Blanca said:


> I know what you mean. I got screwed over by some people in my church, too. It was/is certainly one of my biggest hurdles about going to a church again.
> 
> Still, I cannot help but notice the stats in my family are extremely significant when it comes to those who go to organized religion. Perhaps its a familial gene. lol.


Most people I've met who are into church, have no idea 
about the relationship aspect of God. 
You will see this in many born agains in "acts".. as they feel doing certain "acts" makes them a christian.

I was raised in a catholic community and saw the religious people and how backwords they were.... many child molesters and drunks, misqouting the bible...
I got lucky and met someone who was actually a christian who taught me about God and relationship... there are many more false phropets than real christians in churches.. and churches are full of sinners and deeply confused people.

I am glad for the friend who mentored me, as I know and understand God now and it made me a better person to have known her. She died a few years ago ( in her sleep from old age) and is deeply missed.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

preso said:


> Most people I've met who are into church, have no idea
> about the relationship aspect of God.
> You will see this in many born agains in "acts".. as they feel doing certain "acts" makes them a christian.


I completely agree with you. I lived in provo utah for awhile and it doesnt get any more religious then that. I got scolded for leaving a dr.pepper, that's right a dr.pepper, in my friends fridge. you would have thought i put drugs in there or something. these people were clueless. not to mention my mom was completely delusional as well. on top of that ive been screwed over by some leaders in the church. so ive had my go-around and i completely agree with what you are saying. id pretty much written off religious people as nut cases. but.....

i absolutely idolize my oldest sister. she's just amazing to me. and you know, oprah is another of my idols. The work that oprah does in the world is just amazing to me. i practically think she's a saint. and my oldest sister, she is so smart, accomplished, graceful, and great mother. dont get me wrong she has her downfalls, too. nobody is perfect but she's not judgmental of others points of view like a lot of religious people are. I can have a real conversation with her where i feel my perspective is respect. She's smart and knows her religion and isnt afraid of the things she's unsure of. So from her I get the other side of religion, the side that is aware of imperfection, downfalls, and can still embrace all that is good in it. She's shown me another side of things and its very interesting. 

Mostly I look at the entire families of my two oldest sisters though. they have beautiful families. and my two divorced sisters have disasters basically. its really tragic what their kids will go through. im not saying organized religion is a cure-all by any means. i realize there's a lot more that goes into making a 'good' family then going to organized religion. which i suppose is why i idolize my oldest sister so much. I feel like she understands the whole thing; relationships and all.


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## findingpeace (Mar 14, 2009)

I am a christian I do beleive that having god in your life is very important he is the one who created marriage to begin with marriage isnt a man made thing for the bible says let each man have his own wife and each wife have her own husband for a man will leave his mother and father to be with his wife but being religous is a rather large term there are so many religions and all have different beleifs I am talking about what christ teaches and jesus says let no man or wife divorce unless sexual imorality is prevalent but even religious people fall and I can testify to that for my wife comitted udultery I forgave her and then she left me for the other man so our faith didnt save our marriage but for the most part I see alot of christians pull there marriages back together because of their faith in God but believing in god and doing what he says is two different things all together jesus says those who love me obey me so i think if two people have a tight walk with God in their marriage their marriage will be strong and last forever for christ should be the rock in wich we build our marriage on and sin is what destroys selfishness,deception,lies,dishonesty,and the list goes on is really where our problems come from .......God bless


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

I think you make a great point Blanca. I do believe that having God be a part of your marriage, helps to keep you on the track to knowing there is a bigger goal at hand, rather than just personal happiness. Of course, that doesn't mean we should sacrifice our own personal happiness , or stay in an abusive or adulterous marriage. But, I do think that having that in common, for some couples, really helps to boost their staying power, and their resolve to never give up. 

On that same note, there are times in ones life where we just have to move on, whether it's because a spouse cheated, and we just can't get past it, or healing never took place, or the cheater is doing it over and over again. Or, if there is physical or mental abuse. Those types of situations sometimes can't be helped, God or not. So, in those cases, divorce would be optimal if nothing can be worked out in therapy. 

Your post above is every insightful, and you make some very good points. I do think that the religious aspect of it for some, helps to keep it together, through thick and thin...


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## Veronica Jackson (Jul 2, 2008)

GAsoccerman said:


> but the catholic church sure loves my check book, and many baptist churches have ATM's or Credit Card machines in their churches....
> 
> If churches didn't beg for my money I think I would respect them more


This is why I have a major problem with organized religion, its an organization.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

marina72 said:


> On that same note, there are times in ones life where we just have to move on, whether it's because a spouse cheated, and we just can't get past it, or healing never took place, or the cheater is doing it over and over again. Or, if there is physical or mental abuse. Those types of situations sometimes can't be helped, God or not. So, in those cases, divorce would be optimal if nothing can be worked out in therapy.


Ya, I understand what you are saying. My mom stayed in an abusive relationship and claims it was because of her faith. but you know, i think she just used religion as her excuse. I think she was just a nut case and would have stayed either way. same goes for my dad. I say that because my sister, who is divorced and not religious, was in an extremely abusive relationship. She would have stayed had he not left her. So honestly, as far as mainstream christianity in america is concerened, i see nothing of religion playing a part in those who stay in abusive relationships. I see it as a psychosis of the people involved. And although i do not consider myself naive, I can see how many would disagree with that.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Veronica Jackson said:


> This is why I have a major problem with organized religion, its an organization.


yes money and all its evils. Although, i cannot think of anything that does not require it. taxes go into education for our kids and one does not consider it an evil organization, even when the money is not always used for the purpose it was intended. I dont think it would be wise to stop funding it based on it sometimes being used unwisely.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

findingpeace said:


> I can testify to that for my wife comitted udultery I forgave her and then she left me for the other man so our faith didnt save our marriage


I am really sorry to hear that. I hope, at least, you can find some solace in your faith.


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## Veronica Jackson (Jul 2, 2008)

I don't believe in god so I don't pay money to the church. I never said it was evil, its just not my belief. IMO it neither helps nor hurt to have god in the marriage, its a supernatural being. However, it helps more to have faith in yourself, your partner and the belief in love and forgiveness.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Veronica Jackson said:


> it helps more to have faith in yourself, your partner and the belief in love and forgiveness.


I understand what you mean and i completely agree with you. I think having faith in oneself, and ones partner, is such a key concept. I guess i just came to a point in my marriage that my idea of love and forgiveness, and my idea of faith in myself to protect myself from all the pain i felt, was just not working. I certainly had faith in myself. I thought i knew what love was- i was pretty sure its what my H destroyed. I had a lot of faith in my discernment of others character and my ability to 'fix' things. And then my life spiraled out of control.

I still have faith in myself, and my H, but i feel it needs to be directed towards something that can change the negative momentum we have created into something positive.


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## Veronica Jackson (Jul 2, 2008)

Having a partner that connects with me is key, when he decided rip my heart out of my chest and stomp on it, our union was severed. I had faith in our future, our dreams, everything that was us. But he didn't feel the same way because he felt disconnected. Our marriage is ending but I chalk it up to learning more about relationships. 

There's nothing more I want than to save my marriage but it's not a reality so I move on. We broke up before and what brought us back to a happier place was me doing something that he enjoys doing....fishing. Since then, we did stuff together and got more excited about being in each others lives.

One person can't "fix" things, it takes two willing participants to brainstorm the things that cause the negative feelings, but tackle them one at a time.


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## wantingpeace (Jan 14, 2009)

God is a constant. He's the only one who will never leave you nor forsake you. That can't be said for any human being. The unconditional love he has for us give us the power to love others unconditionally. We can't do that in our own right.


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## Veronica Jackson (Jul 2, 2008)

I have unconditional love for my husband but his feelings are not the same, it is a matter of two people not meant for each other. It is extremely hurtful when someone gets rejected of that powerful love I am capable of unconditional love in my own right.

We are both very different people and actions are perceived as having negative patterns evolve from two people traveling on separate paths. Unfortunately, we don't travel the same path we can't hold hands.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

not all churches are bad, you can't lump it all as the same.

Churches are like people, some are good, some are bad, some are OK.

You have to find your right "fit"

What works for you may not work for me, or vice versa.

But we should respect everyones choices for what they choose.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

I have yet to find a church I deem worthy.
Each time I have tried and thought i found the right one,
bad surprises came...

so no more of that.
I'm going to end up like most other people and end up using the church to see who would be fun to go out and get drunk with.


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## wantingpeace (Jan 14, 2009)

There are no perfect churches because there are no perfect people. Just because people go to church it doesn't mean they're not going to mess uup. 

It's sad though. I know what you mean. There are a lot of lukewarm Christians out there who think it's just fine to behave that way knowing GOd will forgive. They forget that there are consequences.


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