# Too good to leave; Too bad to stay



## ku1980rose

Anyone else read this book? It was recommended on the forums and I have been reading it. I don't know if I was hoping it would tell me I should stay or tell me it was ok to leave? Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) it is pointing to me leaving.

The guidelines that really hit me were about my relationship never really being "good" even in the beginning. I mean, we had fun, we had good times, but it was never as good as I wanted it to be. We were friends, but the attraction seemed to be missing.

The 2nd one that hit me was that if God gave me permission to leave how would I feel? I would feel relief.

The 3rd one had to do with attraction. With how much I was attracted to my husband (or not attracted). I don't find myself attracted to him at all. Don't think I ever did have the physical attraction I wanted, and him pulling back and sleeping on the couch and not initiating any kind of sex for a whole year (and we've only been married a little over a year), makes him even more unattractive.

Anyone else feel enlightened by this book?


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## Prodigal

I read the book several times before I left my H. However, the book wasn't what ultimately made me walk. JMO, but I found that nobody's advice, no book, no article, no counselor, could get me to leave until *I* wanted to leave. Since the economy was pretty bad, I stuck it out until the pain of staying exceeded the pain of leaving. 

However, I did find the book informative and a good read.


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## RunningOnEmpty

I read it. Those same guidelines you mention also resonated with me. According to the book I should just leave. And yet... here I am still in MC trying to salvage my marriage.. 

And totally agree with Prodigal. No book will make you leave. Only you can decide that... when you are ready.


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## ku1980rose

Prodigal said:


> I read the book several times before I left my H. However, the book wasn't what ultimately made me walk. JMO, but I found that nobody's advice, no book, no article, no counselor, could get me to leave until *I* wanted to leave. Since the economy was pretty bad, I stuck it out until the pain of staying exceeded the pain of leaving.
> 
> However, I did find the book informative and a good read.


I agree that I can't leave until *I* want to leave. But, I'm also looking for lots of advice in lots of places. It's comforting to know I'm not alone.


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## dontKnowMe

I've read that book. And I'm skimming it a second time. The exact questions that resonated with you resonated with me. I happen to be a guy...

For the first question in the book ("was it great?") my answer is also no -- it was comfortable. That's the biggest one for me but the other ones you mentioned resonated with me too.

The questions about, if you were given permission to leave would you? My answer was a resounding yes. If this weren't a marriage, if I didn't have a child, or if I knew that I wouldn't be causing amazing amounts of hurt I'd be gone already...(yes, that's an OR).


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## Avalon

Prodigal said:


> I read the book several times before I left my H. However, the book wasn't what ultimately made me walk. JMO, but I found that nobody's advice, no book, no article, no counselor, could get me to leave until *I* wanted to leave. Since the economy was pretty bad, I stuck it out until the pain of staying exceeded the pain of leaving.
> 
> However, I did find the book informative and a good read.


Ditto... NOTHING can tell you whether to leave or stay, that is a personal decision that everyone must make themselves. But this book does help sort things through step by step... In my case I had about 12 points that pointed toward me leaving, but because of the economy and too many things to go into here, I'm staying for now. I highly recommend the book.


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## brokenbythis

I agree that a book can't make the decision for you. All of my answers were 99.5% in the positive (leaning toward me staying). Some of my answers could be very different in a year or so after marriage counselling, working on stuff, etc.

Personally I don't believe in filing for divorce until I have tried absolutely everything that I can to fix our marriage and/or turn things around and be happy in it.


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## ku1980rose

dontKnowMe said:


> .The questions about, if you were given permission to leave would you? My answer was a resounding yes. If this weren't a marriage, if I didn't have a child, or if I knew that I wouldn't be causing amazing amounts of hurt I'd be gone already...(yes, that's an OR).



Wow. You hit is exactly. Only I don't have a child. But if this weren't a marriage....if this wouldn't cause amazing amounts of hurt, I'd be gone, too.


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## RunningOnEmpty

If you don't have kids, no financial barriers, don't love your spouse... why is it so difficult for you to leave? I simply don't understand that.

Not trying to be insensitive here. It is obviously difficult for you and others in the same situation.

I have a friend who doesn't love her husband. Her husband is abusive to her, super-controlling, cheating on her, you name it. She doesn't love him, she wants to leave. She has no kids, no financial issues, etc. She has friends and family nearby.... And yet... she can't get out.


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## Tommo

Don't be so hard on anyone stuck in the hand-wringing mode. I was there for a decade. Tough/tough/tough thing to get through. I can't think of anything worse, in fact.

What, in all probability, will happen is that YOU go out of you way to make things right...all one-sided efforts, too...and it always will come to nothing.

This needs to happen over and over and OVER before your emotionally-compromised mind FINALLY gets the message.

Me? I'm probably the thickest numbskull out there!


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## ku1980rose

RunningOnEmpty said:


> If you don't have kids, no financial barriers, don't love your spouse... why is it so difficult for you to leave? I simply don't understand that.
> 
> Not trying to be insensitive here. It is obviously difficult for you and others in the same situation.
> 
> I have a friend who doesn't love her husband. Her husband is abusive to her, super-controlling, cheating on her, you name it. She doesn't love him, she wants to leave. She has no kids, no financial issues, etc. She has friends and family nearby.... And yet... she can't get out.


I wish it were that easy. I guess I just don't want to give up until I'm sure I did everything to make it work. And he's not a bad guy. He treats me well. It's just that he doesn't seem to "get it". And not having sex for a year is huge. I just don't know what to do with him anymore. And I'm afraid of leaving and being alone and changing everything in my life. May sound silly to some people, but that's just my reality.


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## rfAlaska

I get what you're saying about wanting to be very sure that you've done everything you possibly can. That makes perfect sense. In my mind, the question is how long do you want to hang in limbo?

Honestly, at some point you need to make a decision ... either you're in it for the long haul or you're not in it. If you care about your husband (and for that matter yourself), you'll make that decision much sooner than later. If you're not in it, you both need to be given the freedom to move on.

Are you being very honest with him about how you feel? What are his thoughts?


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## ku1980rose

rfAlaska said:


> I get what you're saying about wanting to be very sure that you've done everything you possibly can. That makes perfect sense. In my mind, the question is how long do you want to hang in limbo?
> 
> Honestly, at some point you need to make a decision ... either you're in it for the long haul or you're not in it. If you care about your husband (and for that matter yourself), you'll make that decision much sooner than later. If you're not in it, you both need to be given the freedom to move on.
> 
> Are you being very honest with him about how you feel? What are his thoughts?


I've been honest with him. This started pretty much after we got married. He was in complete denial for about 6 months and then when I said I was done he decided to make changes. But, his problem is that he can talk the talk, but he can't seem to walk the walk. I truly think he wants this to work. He is truly in love. But, he is in denial of our problems. It's like he thinks if he doesn't talk about it, doesn't think about it, everything will be fine and nobody will get hurt. It seems like that's how he deals with everything in his life that upsets him. Anything that's difficult. The changes I've seen is that he tries to do everything in his power to help me around the house or at work or anything. But, he still doesn't share his life with me, talk to me, share his hopes, dreams, disappointments. And he has slept on the couch for a long time. Even when I tell him that I've waited for him to come back to our bed and that I never wanted him out of there.....then he just gets upset and says, "You're the one who drove me here..." Well, instead of continuing to blame, just let it go and start sleeping in the bedroom. But, he won't. And, I honestly admit that at this point it would just seem weird. I wouldn't even know how to share a bed with him anymore. Doing nice things for me is great, but there is so much more to a marriage than that. Plus, I'm going to be 31 next month and I truly want to have children. I was finally ready to get married and start a family, but how do you start a family with someone you don't even have sex with?? How do you have a family with someone who is so emotionally shut off from you.

I have tried and tried to let him know how I feel. By talking, by yelling, by telling, by writing letters. And everytime, he just totally breaks down and then the next day goes back to ignoring everything again. I guess that is probably what has kept me here (although it's sad to admit) because we've never really gotten to the bottom of it or to the end of it. And maybe we never will. That's where I'm having a difficult time. I want to know that I've given it my all, but how can I do that when he won't even let me???


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## rfAlaska

You can't. I've been following your posts for awhile and it seems to me you've tried everything - at least that i can think of. It is almost as if you're looking for permission to leave. You don't need it, you can leave ... his loss.

You've got about 10 good years to have kids. That means you need to leave, divorce, heal, find someone else, marry and get comfortable. Sounds like 5 years to me. The clock is ticking. 

On the other hand, you could leave, he could have an epiphany and your relationship could heal. Perhaps he needs a big shakeup to be motivated to deal with his issues.

My opinion? Leave. What do you really have to lose? What you have now is clearly not even close to what you want.


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## brokenbythis

ku1980rose said:


> I wish it were that easy. I guess I just don't want to give up until I'm sure I did everything to make it work. And he's not a bad guy. He treats me well. It's just that he doesn't seem to "get it". And not having sex for a year is huge. I just don't know what to do with him anymore. And I'm afraid of leaving and being alone and changing everything in my life. May sound silly to some people, but that's just my reality.


You need to read a book called "Addicted to Love" by Pia Mellody. Or google "love addict/love avoidant" relationship. Let me know if anything there sings true to you.


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## Tommo

Tommo said:


> This needs to happen over and over and OVER before your emotionally-compromised mind FINALLY gets the message.


I'm quoting myself, here. You've got to throw the bucket down that empty well over, and over and OVER before you realise that it ain't gonna come up with any water in it!

Like I said...I'm probably the thickest numbskull out there. Now that time's helped me see more clearly I wonder why I was so thick!

Still...you cannot be faulted for trying.


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## RunningOnEmpty

ku1980rose said:


> I wish it were that easy. I guess I just don't want to give up until I'm sure I did everything to make it work. And he's not a bad guy. He treats me well. It's just that he doesn't seem to "get it". And not having sex for a year is huge. I just don't know what to do with him anymore. And I'm afraid of leaving and being alone and changing everything in my life. May sound silly to some people, but that's just my reality.


I know it is not that easy. I've met several people in the same situation. And all of them go through the same agony of making a decision to get out. The common thread I see is fear of change, fear of the unknown. 

It seems your H is in a pattern of avoidance, not recognizing the issues no matter how hard you've tried to communicate them.

As long as you keep doing the same thing (communicating, he breaks down, sweep everything under the rug, everything back to normal, rinse and repeat)..... you will find yourself in the same hole next week/month/year/decade.

IF he loves you AND you love him, MC may help. I think you mentioned in another thread that he didn't want to go to MC. Or have you tried going this route?

Write down what are your expectations of your marriage, ask him to do the same. Sit down, and exchange these. Review them together. And decide together if you can work toward meeting those. If the answer is no.... you have a clear path to follow


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## ku1980rose

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I know it is not that easy. I've met several people in the same situation. And all of them go through the same agony of making a decision to get out. The common thread I see is fear of change, fear of the unknown.
> 
> It seems your H is in a pattern of avoidance, not recognizing the issues no matter how hard you've tried to communicate them.
> 
> As long as you keep doing the same thing (communicating, he breaks down, sweep everything under the rug, everything back to normal, rinse and repeat)..... you will find yourself in the same hole next week/month/year/decade.
> 
> IF he loves you AND you love him, MC may help. I think you mentioned in another thread that he didn't want to go to MC. Or have you tried going this route?
> 
> Write down what are your expectations of your marriage, ask him to do the same. Sit down, and exchange these. Review them together. And decide together if you can work toward meeting those. If the answer is no.... you have a clear path to follow


I agree with everything you've said. Yes, we tried MC. It was a complete failure. He was also doing IC during this time. The counselor said my h is very codependent and he also only can share 2 emotions. Either very happy or very sad/angry. There is NO in between. He hit the nail on the head. However, counseling was a total bust. He would talk the talk in counseling and cry and cry. But, nothing would ever change at home. He was still shut off to me emotionally. And he still had all his codependent behaviors. I told him that I just can't be his EVERYTHING! I can't be his reason for living. As I've matured through life I've realized that being married and being in love isn't finding someone who "completes" you. Or someone who is your other half. It's about loving yourself, first. Being happy with yourself and your own life and then finding someone to share that with who can also share with you. Anyway, that's what it is to me. And it's too much pressure to be someone's reason for breathing.

So, he was doing ic as well. And then he just stopped. Said that they ran out of things to talk about and that he was "fixed." (his words) He said that the counselor told him that there wasn't much more he could do and that he was on the right path. I don't know if I believe that, but if that's really what the counselor said then either he is a dumb a** or my h was doing a very good job of talking the talk during his sessions. I still have not seen these changes.

At this point, I don't even know if I want to fix this anymore. Or, maybe I just don't know if it is fixable. I've grown to resent my h so much. I have absolutely no physical attraction left to my h. At this point, I wouldn't even WANT to have sex with him. But, that's after a year of TRYING to get him to be with me.

I'm working on the paperwork now. And I'm working on writing him a letter telling him that I am leaving. It's time.


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## ku1980rose

brokenbythis said:


> You need to read a book called "Addicted to Love" by Pia Mellody. Or google "love addict/love avoidant" relationship. Let me know if anything there sings true to you.


Are you talking about me, or my h? I've read a couple of books about codependency after we attempted mc and one was recommended by the counselor. Almost every point on the list pointed to my h. My h could even pick out most of the behaviors on the list as things he does. 

I did say I'm afraid to be alone, etc, etc, etc. But, I do know HOW to be alone. And I've pretty much been alone this entire relationship. I guess it's not that I'm afraid to NOT be in this marriage. It's more that I'm afraid to fail. I'm afraid to make the wrong decision and regret it. I'm always so careful in making my decisions and I did not go into marriage lightly. But, I've never been good at failure and, to me, this is a big failure. But, we all make mistakes. I guess the strongest thing to do would be to be able to admit those mistakes and correct them. Which is what I am trying to do now.


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## brokenbythis

Co-Dependency is very different dynamic than a love addict/love avoidant situation. 

The LA/Love Avoid. couple go through cycling stages in their relationship, each stage distinct in behaviours and expectations. I know what you say when you state you now how to live on your own. It's the reluctance to end a toxic relationship (and other factors) that I just thought may indicate you are in the same sort of relationship as I am.

I JUST found out that this is what has been going on for so many years. The therapist read me a map of my marriage and every single sentence rang true to me.


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## Tommo

Your posts got me chuckling...NO!...not at your expense, but mine! I could have written them. 

Believe me on this...things are really easier once you get out from under the emotions and be rational: you aren't soul mates...so shoulder whatever load you have to bear and get out...or your marital happiness will only be measured by "I am doing the right thing by staying where I am". Do you want your last thoughts on Earth to be "I really didn't LIVE while I was here".

I've done that for years...I'm talking YEARS...until I switched gears and got into "save my own butt" overdrive. Before, I used to smile in order to preserve "the peace". Now, I smile because I'm a step closer to the door.

Geez...no wonder people go off to live in a cave! Aaaaaah!


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## ku1980rose

brokenbythis said:


> Co-Dependency is very different dynamic than a love addict/love avoidant situation.
> 
> The LA/Love Avoid. couple go through cycling stages in their relationship, each stage distinct in behaviours and expectations. I know what you say when you state you now how to live on your own. It's the reluctance to end a toxic relationship (and other factors) that I just thought may indicate you are in the same sort of relationship as I am.
> 
> I JUST found out that this is what has been going on for so many years. The therapist read me a map of my marriage and every single sentence rang true to me.


I agree after doing more reading. I do see some of our relationship in this, but I don't necessarily see myself as Love avoidant. I will do more reading. Thanks!


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## ku1980rose

Tommo said:


> Geez...no wonder people go off to live in a cave! Aaaaaah!


:lol: So, true! 

No, he's not my soulmate. But, he thinks I am his. His total breakdown is one thing that makes it hard to leave. The counselor said this is his way of controlling the situation.


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## Tommo

C'mon...I gotta know. Someone/anyone please tell me! Do cheaters REALISE the mayhem they cause???


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## RunningOnEmpty

Tommo said:


> C'mon...I gotta know. Someone/anyone please tell me! Do cheaters REALISE the mayhem they cause???


Does it matter?


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## RunningOnEmpty

ku1980rose said:


> I'm working on the paperwork now. And I'm working on writing him a letter telling him that I am leaving. It's time.


Congrats on taking this step! Stay strong.


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## ku1980rose

erifunloving said:


> Have you looked into counseling...
> Save My Marriage | The Marriage Savior System


Tried counseling. It failed. He was doing individual counseling. It failed. He thinks it worked, so he quit. Now he says he quit because he was too busy at work. He wants to go back to counseling. I want out. If I'm emotionally just not in this marriage anymore, it doesn't make sense to go sit and fight in counseling again. Problem is, he would talk the talk in counseling, but couldn't ever walk the walk when we left. Maybe I just need space? I don't know. But I've got to do something. And what I've been doing isn't working.


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## kekel1123

I am contemplating to buy the book. I read the first chapter over amazon, its free. I am hesitant due to the fact that as they say, no matter what you read/advice you get, it's still YOU that will make the CHOICE. We had kid, all financial stuffs going on, own issues, but I guess, the thing that I can make for myself will have to CHANGE ME, for a better ME and lets see what will happen next for you cannot CHANGE someone/somebody else's decision. Its for them to contemplate. For me, there's still this feeling of CARING (dont know if I can equate that for LOVING?) for her, for she has been a part of my LIFE.A lot has happened between us,but I guess whatever her or my decision will be in the near future Its for the good of both of us and our kid.I try all the avenues first to fix ME and then who knows.... only GOD will knows what will happens next!


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## dontKnowMe

The book is great because it gives an objective opinion. By the end of the book you'll have an answer to the question if someone in your position was happy that they left or regretted leaving. I highly recommend the book. It's an easy read and very enjoyable (well, considering the topic...).


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## ku1980rose

kekel1123 said:


> I am contemplating to buy the book. I read the first chapter over amazon, its free. I am hesitant due to the fact that as they say, no matter what you read/advice you get, it's still YOU that will make the CHOICE. We had kid, all financial stuffs going on, own issues, but I guess, the thing that I can make for myself will have to CHANGE ME, for a better ME and lets see what will happen next for you cannot CHANGE someone/somebody else's decision. Its for them to contemplate. For me, there's still this feeling of CARING (dont know if I can equate that for LOVING?) for her, for she has been a part of my LIFE.A lot has happened between us,but I guess whatever her or my decision will be in the near future Its for the good of both of us and our kid.I try all the avenues first to fix ME and then who knows.... only GOD will knows what will happens next!


For me, the books just help me get my thoughts in order. It helps me to hear a viewpoint from someone who is not involved in my relationship. I don't know how it can be much different than getting advice on here, except, on here, you can tell your story first.


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## Tommo

RunningOnEmpty said:


> Does it matter?


Nope, it doesn't matter. It should...but it doesn't.


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