# She cheated. Wow.



## The-Deceived

Hello fellow broken hearted. Married 12 years, together for 15. 2 children, 8 and 5. We've worked opposite schedules for years - me in the day, she at night as a waitress. This so the kids wouldn't have to be in daycare. She's always been VERY insecure - basically accused me of cheating our entire relationship (I NEVER once did). I grew tired and resentful of always having to defend my faithfulness. But I remained a committed, loving husband. Never went out, always let her sleep as late as she wanted and I'd take care of the kids.

November 20th was my daughter's birthday. I'm at work, in the middle of a huge. high pressure project. She texts me "I can't do this any more". And she proceeds to end it via text, on my baby's bday. I said OK. She then changed her mind, begged me to work it out. I initially said no. Then eventually relented. She said "I'll quit the bar, go to counselling". I said OK. She went to get ready for work, came downstairs and said "I can't do it. Too much pressure". And left. I texted her "Is there another man?" She said "does it matter?". LOL. WTF! Ahhhh, yes. She admitted to it. She had been sleeping with an old school friend who started frequenting her bar. Turns out he's a hell's angel. Coke dealer, thug. Real ****ing winner. And because our iphones are synced, he was in my contacts. His thumbnail pic? The 2 of them kissing.

Gutted. Completely. So we separated. Agreed on split custody. As a knee jerk reaction I went out immediately and started dating. She told me it had been over with this guy for a while. But she slept with him again once during our separation. She got tested for STD's and is clean (thankful for that bit of mercy).

Her reason for the affair was that she felt emotionally abandoned by me. No passion. Just room-mates, blah blah. The usual I suppose. She thought I didn't love her any more. We kept things civil for the kids - no fighting. Amicable. 

She said several times that she tried to think of ways to make it work, but she knows being the man I am I could never forgive her for cheating, and she couldn't live that way. I said right.

I ended up dating this Irish gal. I'm a musician and did very well in my few weeks as a single guy. No problems there. It was fun (well, it masked the pain).

On Dec 21 I ended up sleeping with this woman. The next day, my wife texts me "did you play last night? Did you go out with a girl? Did you sleep with her?". I was honest. She lost her ****. Oh the irony. She was a mess and I told her to come over and I'd take care of her (just offered comfort, support). She wasn't angry - just devastated. Next day she tells me she felt my love again and felt so safe with me. She asked if I thought I could ever forgive her, and will I fight for our marriage.

Long story short, we are back together, in counselling. She is looking for other work. Our passion is back and we've reconnected. A lot of love making, talking, making time for each other. It's been great. She hit rock bottom. Said she was out of her body - didn't care about anything and was on self-destruct. She has real issues from her past too that caused her insecurity (father abandonment and sexual abuse stuff - her sister, not her - but while she was in the same bed). She is going to go to a therapist on her own too. 

She has constantly expressed true remorse, guilt, shame. Now she's fearful I'll change my mind and leave her. We're working through that stuff.

I do believe we have what it takes to come out of this stronger, closer. I need to make changes too. She said the turning point was a few months back when she came to me with a list of things she needed from me. 1. Flowers once in a while 2. More affection/attention 3. Help around the house. Because I was resentful of the cheating accusations, I said no. I wouldn't do those things. She said that's when she turned away.

But I am having a hell of a time dealing with her infidelity. It's brutal (as you all know). I think I'm doing good then it comes to mind. And it shatters me. I did all this reading about forgiveness and "are you man enough to forgive your wife's infidelity" and the power of letting go. She goes on about how amazing I am, what a strong and kind man I am for giving her a second chance. But man alive, is it hard.

I've made the choice to reconcile. She's thrilled, the kids are thrilled. I hate not having control over my emotions and the pain. I still get struck with disbelief, bewilderment that it actually happened. But it DID.

Does it get easier? It'll never go away, I know that. Am I weak for taking her back? Am I a fool? Is it my ego that makes me question?

This ****ing SUCKS.


----------



## The-Deceived

Crap - just realized I spelled deceived wrong in my username. FAIL.


----------



## Hope1964

So sorry you're here. Please read the newbie link in my signature. It DOES suck, hugely. 

Two things that must be there for a successful R. This is a c&p of a previous post I made about my own R:

"There are two reasons I think our R is so successful so far. I say so far because I don't believe it will ever be 'over'. We will always be living post-affair. It's like living after a war or the death of a loved one or a cataclysmic event like 911. Everything gets talked about as 'before' or 'after'.

Anyway. Two reasons. The first is that I let him go, or rather kicked him out. I was DONE. I hated him and never wanted to lay eyes on him again. What he did spelled the end of our marriage. This freed me up to work on myself. I went to IC and changed some things up around the house and lived with just the kids again (I was also a single mom for 7 years when they were little) and I realized that I actually liked it. I liked myself and I liked my life. This in turn led to the discovery that, if I had the choice, I actually DID want him in my life. I actually did love him. This surprised me, because it was a complete 180 from the way I felt on D day. So I decided that we would try R.

The second reason is the way he is now. There is VERY little he hasn't done that a WS should and needs to do. He owns his sh!t. He works hard every day to help me recover and to keep our marriage getting better. And he does it all with an attitude of remorse. He doesn't balk at what he needs to do. Even this long past the first Dday I can tell him that something triggered me and he is apologetic and fusses over me. The fact he is this way has meant that I can be that way with him too, when he needs me to be. "


----------



## Hope1964

The-Decieved said:


> Crap - just realized I spelled deceived wrong in my username. FAIL.


Hey - I couldn't even find my way to work right after D day - I'd worked there for 15 years.


----------



## 3putt

Hope1964 said:


> Hey - I couldn't even find my way to work right after D day - I'd worked there for 15 years.


I drove off the road 2 days after DDay and wrecked a company car.


----------



## Kasler

Shes only back with you because you're the safe choice.

Drug dealers don't make the best providers. 

Don't kid yourself about why she came back just because of some sex. Make sure your counselor knows this or it won't be too long before you get another "I can't do this" text

And tell her she can't pull that sh!t again. That if she walks out again its done cause its not fair to you or the childen and she is using it it as an unfair escape, and when you take her back each time it only makes her more likely to continue doing it anytime things get awkward or rough. 

And who the hell breaks off a marriage by text anyways? She definitely has confrontation issues and that has to be hammered away as well if you want to have at least a semblance of security in marriage.


----------



## walkonmars

It's a gamble for you. You've known her a long, long, time. You have kids together. 

Did she indulge in drugs w her xBF?
Are drugs part of her/your culture?

To answer your question, No you're not a fool or weak. You have a lot at stake, it will not be easy for you. So, if you are going to invest in that effort then go "all in". Otherwise it's not worth it, not even for the sake of the children. It won't be better for them if you two are constanly bitter.

Counseling with a competent MC experienced with infidelity in marriage can help both of you. 

Agree to discuss your feelings of betrayal and her feelings of insecurity but limit them to times when the kids are out of earshot. And agree to time limits for each discussion.

She MUST quit that job today. Not next week, or tomorrow -today. Get another daytime job. Even at McDonalds. Immediately.

She must agree to lose her friends at the bar - FOREVER.

You need to be sure you are home when she is.

You need to carry your family on your back for a while if it is to survive.


----------



## Rottdad42

Your not week your trying to protect what you have. You would be the fool if it happened again. She needs to heavy lift dude, everyday. until you are satisfied. That could be a long time.Does it get easier, in some respects yes. I think a different problem exists, in regards to her AP being an HA. They run with a rough crowd, hopefully for you and your family's sake that person is gone forever. You for sure don't need that headache on top of a heartache. Make sure you read the newbie stuff. I did, it will help. I'm sure the Vets' will chime in soon and give you more angles and perspectives besides my 2 cents. Good Luck.


----------



## TDSC60

She has to find another job if she hasn't already. 

The pain of betrayal will be with you for a long time to come, but it will get better as good memories replace the bad. If you love her and you think she is 100% in, then you can make it better together.


----------



## The-Deceived

Thanks all. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...if anything like this happened again, that would be the end. No question there. And she knows that. Can't believe I'm giving her a 2nd chance at all.


----------



## The-Deceived

Rottdad42 said:


> Your not week your trying to protect what you have. You would be the fool if it happened again. She needs to heavy lift dude, everyday. until you are satisfied. That could be a long time.Does it get easier, in some respects yes. I think a different problem exists, in regards to her AP being an HA. They run with a rough crowd, hopefully for you and your family's sake that person is gone forever. You for sure don't need that headache on top of a heartache. Make sure you read the newbie stuff. I did, it will help. I'm sure the Vets' will chime in soon and give you more angles and perspectives besides my 2 cents. Good Luck.


That was definitely a concern at the start (the HA thing). She assures me he respects it and is completely out of the picture. Of course I don't know what to believe at all any more.


----------



## Hope1964

You aren't giving her a second chance. You are giving her ONE chance. One chance to do this right, to make up for what she's done.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> You aren't giving her a second chance. You are giving her ONE chance. One chance to do this right, to make up for what she's done.


Yes. I will not be ****ed over again.

BTW I'm in Alberta too.


----------



## Hope1964

Are you? Too bad that doesn't make us immune from the cheating epidemic, eh?


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Are you? Too bad that doesn't make us immune from the cheating epidemic, eh?


Sure doesn't.


----------



## DavidWYoung

I hope this works out for you, I really do......but......I see alot of pain comming your way even if it works. I have prayed for you now, a first on TAM. Good luck and God Bless David


----------



## The-Deceived

DavidWYoung said:


> I hope this works out for you, I really do......but......I see alot of pain comming your way even if it works. I have prayed for you now, a first on TAM. Good luck and God Bless David


Thanks David. Why/what sort of pain do you see for me?


----------



## committedwife

The-Decieved said:


> Thanks David. Why/what sort of pain do you see for me?


Hi, TD. I'm not David, but I'll tell you what I see for you. I believe this will be a False Recovery. It appears that you have done nothing to make sure this affair is dead. What do you need to do? This:

She quits her job TODAY. 
She gives you all of her passwords to any electronic accounts that she has; cell phone, email, etc.
She writes a letter to OM to FOREVER end contact and explains to him the hurt that her careless actions have caused YOU, her beloved husband. 
She is totally transparent in all of her actions; she checks in with you and lets you know where she is and when she'll be home. 

If she is willing to do these things, you have a chance. And by the way - marital counselling is usually worthless. I would suggest that you go to Amazon.com post-haste and order the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley. Use this as your handbook for recovery. 

And don't EVER AGAIN screw another woman to release your hurt and pain or to 'have fun'. She's not a c*m dumpster - she's a human, too!


----------



## The Middleman

committedwife said:


> And don't EVER AGAIN screw another woman to release your hurt and pain or to 'have fun'. She's not a c*m dumpster - she's a human, too!


Where did that come from?


----------



## CH

Kasler said:


> Shes only back with you because you're the safe choice.
> 
> Drug dealers don't make the best providers.


She's only back because she thought he was going to be single and miserable without her. But the minute he slept with someone else, her love came back with a passion.

Cheaters are pretty simple, we can cheat but if you cheat OMG the betrayal, how could you do this.......All this love I suddenly have for you and you had to cheat, wtf.....

It's my toy, I don't want to play with it anymore because it's old and boring and no fun, no passion, doesn't grab my attention anymore but it's still mine. The minute someone else picks it up, all hell is breaking loose, because IT'S MINE!


----------



## MattMatt

The-Decieved said:


> Crap - just realized I spelled deceived wrong in my username. FAIL.


And I didn't notice that! DOH!


----------



## MattMatt

Jeez. What a cliché! She has an affair with a Hell's Angel!

That's what Hell's Angels do. Have affairs. Well, at least my cousin who was a Hell's Angel, did.

Hopefully, you can move on together from this, either as a couple or separate. Good luck and best wishes to you both.


----------



## The-Deceived

He's banned from the bar. He's a fugitive anyway. Sadly because of finances she can't quit until she has another gig lined up. She gave me her passwords and has been bringing her time sheets to me to prove she's coming straight home. She hasn'r\t heard from him in over a month.

As for the girl I slept with - I didn't use her like that - I really liked her! She was super cool. I was totally honest with her. She was mad at first but then thanked me for my honesty. I wouldn't use someone like that.



committedwife said:


> Hi, TD. I'm not David, but I'll tell you what I see for you. I believe this will be a False Recovery. It appears that you have done nothing to make sure this affair is dead. What do you need to do? This:
> 
> She quits her job TODAY.
> She gives you all of her passwords to any electronic accounts that she has; cell phone, email, etc.
> She writes a letter to OM to FOREVER end contact and explains to him the hurt that her careless actions have caused YOU, her beloved husband.
> She is totally transparent in all of her actions; she checks in with you and lets you know where she is and when she'll be home.
> 
> If she is willing to do these things, you have a chance. And by the way - marital counselling is usually worthless. I would suggest that you go to Amazon.com post-haste and order the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley. Use this as your handbook for recovery.
> 
> And don't EVER AGAIN screw another woman to release your hurt and pain or to 'have fun'. She's not a c*m dumpster - she's a human, too!


----------



## C-man

3putt said:


> I drove off the road 2 days after DDay and wrecked a company car.


Maybe should start a new thread: stupid things that you did after DDay.


The Decieved - sorry for what you're going through - it certainly does suck. You'll get lots of input from people who have been through the same thing - read and know that you are not alone - that in itself can help.


----------



## Chaparral

Working two different shifts will ruin any marriage. It's like not being married. It's not even like being roommates. On top of that you thought your woman could work in a bar/restaurant and not get hit on by drunk fun loving, good looking guys?

How could you not see this coming? On top of it , she asked you for help and you threw it back in her face knowing how insecure she was.

You have chance to save your marriage and family. I hope you are strong and smart enough to do it.

Good luck and prayers


----------



## walkonmars

Working at the same bar is like flicking lit matches at a can of gasoline.

His friends aren't banned are they?

Her friends that knew about, and approved are still there. They didn't tell you about it right?

Other bar flies that heard about it are thinking she's "that kind" and take a shot.

Friend, it's not worth the extra few bucks. Let her work at mickey D, safeway, etc.


----------



## Shaggy

You need to get a drug test for her too. Hells angels like to get their chicks high and hooked, they use it to control them. So what has he had her using? 

They also pass their party chicks around to buddies, even making them turn tricks.

You need to polygraph her.

Her given you her passwords are useless. She will likely have a burner phone he gave her.

And it's only been a few weeks since he was having her. He will be back when he wants more from her, and dudes like him do not accept no from a woman, especially if she's been using and he gets her high weather she wants to or not.

She needs to leave the job tomorrow. Get UI or get a job any place, but no more bar.


----------



## Shaggy

walkonmars said:


> Working at the same bar is like flicking lit matches at a can of gasoline.
> 
> His friends aren't banned are they?
> 
> Her friends that knew about, and approved are still there. They didn't tell you about it right?
> 
> Other bar flies that heard about it are thinking she's "that kind" and take a shot.
> 
> Friend, it's not worth the extra few bucks. Let her work at mickey D, safeway, etc.


His friends likely are already seeing to use her when they want.

There is more nasty here than you've found out. She's been sleeping with a very nasty crowd. I'm sure he never bought her flowers once, sybe meth or coke or oxy, but not flowers.


----------



## Kasler

Deceived, she needs to quit that job. 

She needs consquence. 

Even if you take a financial hit with a lesser paying job, its worth it to protect your marriage. 

Finding a new job should be her top priority. Because either consciously or subconsciously, shes going to be thinking "I got away with it" if not changes for her significantly.


----------



## BjornFree

committedwife said:


> And don't EVER AGAIN screw another woman to release your hurt and pain or to 'have fun'. She's not a c*m dumpster - she's a human, too!


Haha don't listen to this. 

Its a good thing you jumped back right into the dating game. Gave you a chance to think about something other than your unfaithful wife. 

That Irish chick wanted to have sex with you. And you obliged. Let no woman shame you about that fact. 

In fact what you did should be exactly what other betrayed husbands should be doing, going out and meeting new people, put on a fake smile, try and enjoy the company of others, pretty soon you won't be faking it anymore and that means tons of pvssy.

Though I feel that you shouldn't have taken her back, unless you saw months and months of consistent remorse. For starters make her quit the job and search for another one. Finances can take second place when your marriage is under fire.


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal

You guys are amazing! Now you have her getting high and turning tricks. Wow.


----------



## Chaparral

Hope Springs Eternal said:


> You guys are amazing! Now you have her getting high and turning tricks. Wow.


If the shoe fits. What do you think Hell's Angels' girls do? It ain't cookies they're sticking in the oven.


----------



## Ovid

My inlaws are former bikers. The thing about bikers is they are completely random. You never actually know what you're dealing with.

My mother in law is barely functional from all of the drugs she did.

My father in law is the opposite. 

Their old friends are pretty much the same. Some drugged out. Some "clean". Some are dangerous, and some are not.

If he's a drug dealer you better watch your back.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Shaggy said:


> His friends likely are already seeing to use her when they want.
> 
> *There is more nasty here than you've found out.* She's *been sleeping with a very nasty crowd.* *I'm sure he never bought her flowers once, sybe meth or coke or oxy, but not flowers.*




Why she was accusing you of cheating from the beginning? was she projecting her guilt? was she cheating during that period?
How long was this A going on? Did you exposed her A?


----------



## Jasel

Kallan Pavithran said:


> *Why she was accusing you of cheating from the beginning? was she projecting her guilt? was she cheating during that period?*
> How long was this A going on? Did you exposed her A?


Ya that's what I would be wondering. It's not uncommon for SO's who constantly make cheating accusations to project their own cheating behavior.


----------



## Shaggy

Hope Springs Eternal said:


> You guys are amazing! Now you have her getting high and turning tricks. Wow.


Sorry, the Hells Angles have a very nasty record of how they treat the women around them. There are enough chicks following them, for the thrill and the drugs that they get jaded and cold toward women pretty fast. 

The wife here wasn't a member of the biker club, she was a chick who was giving herself to a member. He's not a nice dude, not at all.

The sad fact is that the fact that he's a rider in that club, and she was cheating with him is very nasty.  And the way she would have been treated is nasty. and she went for it.

More often than not they're will be drugs involved for the girl. Even if she's clean at the start she'll be pressured to use. 

A lot of the clubs also have a practice of passing the girls around between members and friends. Remember, she wasn't his wife. She was a married chick, working the night shift at a bar, who was willing to meet him and give him sex. 

I suggest that the OP goes an talks to a Mountie that deals with the bikers and gets the low down on this guy and his buddies.

I also suggest that his wife needs to get both STD checked and polygraphed. 

She needs to give up her cell number and get a new one. 

He needs to check her for a burner phone.

She needs to stop working there and cut that group out of her life forever. 

OP also needs to talk to her about what she is doing to do when she gets called by the guy or one of his buddies. Because he will be calling.


----------



## The-Deceived

The only "saving grace" (yeah right) is that they were friends since elementary school - so it wasn't a random thing. They were actually boyfriend/girlfriend when they were kids. 

She hid it from everyone - although some people at her work figured it out. They all detest him. She got a couple of them telling her if she ends up with this guy, their friendship is over. They are all relieved he's out of the picture. The bouncers have been instructed not to let him in.

She had a job interview Friday and has another one this week. I talked to her again last night and reinforced that she has to leave. She even got a reference letter from her boss - who thinks she should go too.

If she doesn't leave that job I'm out - she knows this.

She's humiliated and embarrassed and swears up and down it's all on the table, he's gone, and if she hears from him in any capacity she'll tell me. 

Every person in her life saw her slip away - completely change. She was doing coke with him. She's been off work for a week and when not with me is with the kids - so I know where she's at, and she's not using. She's cancelled several shifts to be at home with me.

I believe she is genuine and remorseful, and has left that all behind. I've known her 15 years...I guess that means sweet f*ck all, being as she cheated. But she's back - back to herself. 

She's putting in the work. I'll keep a close eye on things. She knows this is her one and only chance.


----------



## LookingForTheSun

3putt said:


> I drove off the road 2 days after DDay and wrecked a company car.


We both had an accident (never had an accident in 15 years we were married)...him after DD2, me after DD3...I was also hit after DD1 by a neighbor backing out of his driveway...I probably could have avoided it if I was mentally all there. :-( I also started payng bills late - NEVER did that...and not because the money wasn't there...because I didn't care.


----------



## LookingForTheSun

TD - this is a scary situation. It does not matter that they knew each other as kids...look at what he is now that he is an adult.

It is possible to save your marriage if your wife is truly snapped out of the funk/fog she was in, you have a shot, but she owes you a lot and you owe yourself to get an STD test and talk to someone about what is going on (besides just the people on tams - someone who can give you a hug when you need it).

She has some serious issues she needs to deal with, and for you to move forward, you need to know that she is gong to lean on you heavily and may still lie about some things (thinking it will spare you pain but more to spare her shame)...you need to go into this knowing there may be more issues than only what you have seen. You also need to be firm with her and not cut her any slack. As a BS, I know that sometimes we try to give the WS space, hoping that will make them feel like we care and make them feel like we are not pressuring....WRONG ANSWER. Without the pressure and ultimatums, the affairs continue or start back up. My WHs started back up 3 times in 3 months while I thought it was over. Be strong. Sorry you are here.


----------



## daggeredheart

"She's putting in the work. I'll keep a close eye on things. She knows this is her one and only chance" 

<----Also your chance to assess what you want to bring to the marriage and your boundaries. Marital crisis wake up calls suck but you can use it to forge a new path for yourself as well. Takes a while to figure out what direction you want to take.


----------



## bfree

The-Decieved said:


> The only "saving grace" (yeah right) is that they were friends since elementary school - so it wasn't a random thing. They were actually boyfriend/girlfriend when they were kids.
> 
> She hid it from everyone - although some people at her work figured it out. They all detest him. She got a couple of them telling her if she ends up with this guy, their friendship is over. They are all relieved he's out of the picture. The bouncers have been instructed not to let him in.
> 
> She had a job interview Friday and has another one this week. I talked to her again last night and reinforced that she has to leave. She even got a reference letter from her boss - who thinks she should go too.
> 
> If she doesn't leave that job I'm out - she knows this.
> 
> She's humiliated and embarrassed and swears up and down it's all on the table, he's gone, and if she hears from him in any capacity she'll tell me.
> 
> Every person in her life saw her slip away - completely change. She was doing coke with him. She's been off work for a week and when not with me is with the kids - so I know where she's at, and she's not using. She's cancelled several shifts to be at home with me.
> 
> I believe she is genuine and remorseful, and has left that all behind. I've known her 15 years...I guess that means sweet f*ck all, being as she cheated. But she's back - back to herself.
> 
> She's putting in the work. I'll keep a close eye on things. She knows this is her one and only chance.


You're right. R doesn't start until she quits that job. You aren't R you are in limbo.

The only reason she came back to you is because she saw you as a man who has options. A man who didn't need her. That's catnip to women. If you keep that frame you can keep her attraction. If you start doting on her and putting her on a pedestal you will lose her again. I read something recently which made a lot of sense to me.

_Declining rapport can occur while the attraction remains strong, but declining attraction rarely occurs while rapport remains strong. To put it another way, within the context of a relationship, and particularly from the woman’s vantage point, rapport cannot exist without attraction, but attraction can exist without rapport._

So in other words, you can both get along great but if you aren't making her tingle in her nether regions you aren't together for long.


----------



## Hope1964

Have you read the links around here to see what exactly it is that WS's need to do if R has a hope of being successful? STD testing is definitely one thing - she should go and have the tests done and take you when she gets the results. Her attitude and actions are the main thing.


----------



## hookares

The-Decieved said:


> Crap - just realized I spelled deceived wrong in my username. FAIL.



Everybody should want their children's mother riding around on the back of some scumbag's cycle.
I suggest you get a paternity test for both children just so you will have a clear view of where you stand in your cheater's eyes.
Sorry


----------



## The-Deceived

She got tested for all STD's - she's clean.


----------



## The-Deceived

bfree said:


> You're right. R doesn't start until she quits that job. You aren't R you are in limbo.
> 
> The only reason she came back to you is because she saw you as a man who has options. A man who didn't need her. That's catnip to women. If you keep that frame you can keep her attraction. If you start doting on her and putting her on a pedestal you will lose her again. I read something recently which made a lot of sense to me.
> 
> _Declining rapport can occur while the attraction remains strong, but declining attraction rarely occurs while rapport remains strong. To put it another way, within the context of a relationship, and particularly from the woman’s vantage point, rapport cannot exist without attraction, but attraction can exist without rapport._
> 
> So in other words, you can both get along great but if you aren't making her tingle in her nether regions you aren't together for long.


Yes, funny that about women. I'm at the point where I could walk away today and be great. I have an amazing career, an avocation as a musician/songwriter and confidence. I am choosing to reconcile because I think we can. But if anything goes down that I'm not 100% cool with, I'm out. She knows this.

I've made the choice. But man, it's a hard pill to swallow.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Decieved said:


> She got tested for all STD's - she's clean.


Did you get this in writing?


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope Springs Eternal said:


> You guys are amazing! Now you have her getting high and turning tricks. Wow.


Yeah - her time has been 100% accounted for since well before xmas. She's not using and not turning tricks. She's back to her herself. Like I said - printing out her timesheet and bringing them to me.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Did you get this in writing?


I was there when she got the phone call...but not in writing.


----------



## tom67

The-Decieved said:


> Yeah - her time has been 100% accounted for since well before xmas. She's not using and not turning tricks. She's back to her herself. Like I said - printing out her timesheet and bringing them to me.


Keep up with that confident attitude. Keep it in the back of her head you have options you'll be just fine!


----------



## Hope1964

The-Decieved said:


> I was there when she got the phone call...but not in writing.


I'm asking because cheaters lie. They lie and lie and lie. All of them. Even the truly remorseful ones lie at first - they have to be whacked out of the fog. It's human nature to minimize one's wrongs when caught red handed.

Stick to your guns, she has GOT to quit that job. If you're in Alberta she should have zero problem finding something else right away, so really, why does she need to stay?? Tell her right now you want her to call in and quit. It sounds like her boss will understand.


----------



## The-Deceived

tom67 said:


> Keep up with that confident attitude. Keep it in the back of her head you have options you'll be just fine!


Thanks Tom.


----------



## Shaggy

Right now she is trying to keep you because she knows you can leave for sure. 

What about in a month or three when she's sure she's got you hooked again. 

Right now you need to put in place the things to deal with down the road stuff. 

The coke and other drugs stuff is scary. What about when she wants more? 

Have her take a drug test and see what she's been using and tell her there will be other tests down the road. 

What did she do with him and for him that she refuses you? You need to have that talk. 

You are a nice guy. You are faithful and work hard. She went for the very bad boy. She did coke for him and likely some nasty sexual stuff. You need to not turn into a nice guy doormat again or
She will cheat again. She likes the bad boys. She likes being submissive to him. She will to drugs for him. If you don't reclaim her and don't get
In the drivers seat with her she will fe bored of you and cheat again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

I won't ever be "hooked". I love my wife and I'm willing to work this out...but I'll drop her like a hot f*cking potato if she betrays me on any level - now or 20 years from now. She knows this. This is her ONE chance. I would do just fine, in fact great, without her. I won't ever forget that. And neither will she. If she does? Adiós. 



Shaggy said:


> Right now she is trying to keep you because she knows you can leave for sure.
> 
> What about in a month or three when she's sure she's got you hooked again.
> 
> Right now you need to put in place the things to deal with down the road stuff.
> 
> The coke and other drugs stuff is scary. What about when she wants more?
> 
> Have her take a drug test and see what she's been using and tell her there will be other tests down the road.
> 
> What did she do with him and for him that she refuses you? You need to have that talk.
> 
> You are a nice guy. You are faithful and work hard. She went for the very bad boy. She did coke for him and likely some nasty sexual stuff. You need to not turn into a nice guy doormat again or
> She will cheat again. She likes the bad boys. She likes being submissive to him. She will to drugs for him. If you don't reclaim her and don't get
> In the drivers seat with her she will fe bored of you and cheat again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

The-Decieved said:


> I won't ever be "hooked". I love my wife and I'm willing to work this out...but I'll drop her like a hot f*cking potato if she betrays me on any level - now or 20 years from now. She knows this. This is her ONE chance. I would do just fine, in fact great, without her. I won't ever forget that. And neither will she. If she does? Adiós.


That is exactly the attitude you need to have.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> That is exactly the attitude you need to have.


----------



## Vanguard

You're not a fool. 

But you are being fooled.


----------



## Shaggy

Hope1964 said:


> That is exactly the attitude you need to have.


Right now you are on an emotional high. You seem to have run off the other guy. Your wife wants you back
And you got lucky and attention from the Irish gal. 

The problem is the high and momentum you have is hard to keep and you will begin to stip back to the old you. 

The one chance attitude is the right one but you need to make these changes permanent in you even after the rush is gone. 

Get and read Married Mans Sex Life by Athol. It will help your long term planning bug time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

WhiteMousse said:


> You're not a fool.
> 
> But you are being fooled.


Can you elaborate?


----------



## The-Deceived

Believe me - my attitude won't change. Honestly I'm not even sure why I'm giving her another chance. I'll check out the book, thanks.



Shaggy said:


> Right now you are on an emotional high. You seem to have run off the other guy. Your wife wants you back
> And you got lucky and attention from the Irish gal.
> 
> The problem is the high and momentum you have is hard to keep and you will begin to stip back to the old you.
> 
> The one chance attitude is the right one but you need to make these changes permanent in you even after the rush is gone.
> 
> Get and read Married Mans Sex Life by Athol. It will help your long term planning bug time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

The-Decieved said:


> Believe me - my attitude won't change. Honestly I'm not even sure why I'm giving her another chance. I'll check out the book, thanks.


Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


----------



## Vanguard

The-Decieved said:


> Can you elaborate?


She has zero accountability and she's blaming you for her affair. 

She'll do it again. 

I'm sorry for being blunt. I can honestly say I know how you feel and if you look at my history you'll see some of my groanings of agony.

This will be the most difficult part of your entire life. 

But you have to believe me, life is waiting for you.


----------



## The-Deceived

Not sure about the no accountability thing...she constantly apologizes and calls herself a "fool", a "loser". Do you mean because she gave me her reason for cheating?



WhiteMousse said:


> She has zero accountability and she's blaming you for her affair.
> 
> She'll do it again.
> 
> I'm sorry for being blunt. I can honestly say I know how you feel and if you look at my history you'll see some of my groanings of agony.
> 
> This will be the most difficult part of your entire life.
> 
> But you have to believe me, life is waiting for you.


----------



## Shaggy

Her words are give me pity words. I strongly recommend against feeding that line of behavior. She's a big girl who chose to cheat and do drugs. 

Have you talked to her about how he treated her. Dud he hit her? Did he yell get angry or threaten her? Did he make threats against you or the kids?

Then There is the sex and drugs talk you need to have with her. Given her words and emotional turmoil I am guessing there was some extreme stuff he was demanding she do. I'm not trying to get you to post it here. What I want you to do is to remove any secrets she has with him and the affair. She should have nothing special she and he know about or keep only between them. 

She must open up and tell you anything. That's a big part of her being only loyal to you. 

Another thing. Clothes lingerie shoes and stuff she wore for him goes into the trash.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

She said the sex was bad because he was so wasted all the time he couldn't "carry thru". She's told my anything I ask. For example I asked if they did anal. She said no way. She thinks he's going to die soon. Either an OD or get shot. Here's hoping.

Biker guys in organized crime are such ********* losers. Pathetic.



Shaggy said:


> Her words are give me pity words. I strongly recommend against feeding that line of behavior. She's a big girl who chose to cheat and do drugs.
> 
> Have you talked to her about how he treated her. Dud he hit her? Did he yell get angry or threaten her? Did he make threats against you or the kids?
> 
> Then There is the sex and drugs talk you need to have with her. Given her words and emotional turmoil I am guessing there was some extreme stuff he was demanding she do. I'm not trying to get you to post it here. What I want you to do is to remove any secrets she has with him and the affair. She should have nothing special she and he know about or keep only between them.
> 
> She must open up and tell you anything. That's a big part of her being only loyal to you.
> 
> Another thing. Clothes lingerie shoes and stuff she wore for him goes into the trash.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Wow indeed. 

She has to deal with her issues. Find an experienced counselor for her IC. I mean what kind of a person would break up a marriage over the phone. But tbh, you weren't exactly the one to take her seriously either. Well, now you know she needs help.

And watch your back. Most Hell's Angels dipshyts aren't ones to give up free pvssy that easily. Triggering I know, but you have to deal with that issue too. Better safe than sorry.

And seriously take the red pill, if you have any wonder why she would be attracted to such an azzhole and a loser.


----------



## snap

The-Decieved said:


> She said the sex was bad because he was so wasted all the time he couldn't "carry thru".


We hear it so often on this forum that it's almost an in-joke. Nearly every cheating wife trying to reconcile describes how bad the OM is in the sack.


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived, sorry what you've been going through. I'm just curious if you don't mind me asking. Has your wife ever had any type of therapy or counseling in the past?


----------



## The-Deceived

True - I did not take her seriously.

Not sure I get the red pill thing - can you explain what you mean by that sentence?



Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Wow indeed.
> 
> She has to deal with her issues. Find an experienced counselor for her IC. I mean what kind of a person would break up a marriage over the phone. But tbh, you weren't exactly the one to take her seriously either. Well, now you know she needs help.
> 
> And watch your back. Most Hell's Angels dipshyts aren't ones to give up free pvssy that easily. Triggering I know, but you have to deal with that issue too. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> And seriously take the red pill, if you have any wonder why she would be attracted to such an azzhole and a loser.


----------



## The-Deceived

Thanks Jasel. Yes, she went to a gal a few years back, and she did say it helped her. When my wife was 3, she was on vacation with her 6 year old sister and dad. The dad molested her sister in front of her. He then abandoned her. She hadn't heard anything from him until her birthday last year (she's 35) - when he emailed her. It flipped her upside down. She said that was the point when she started going downhill. It was a few months later she asked me for those things and I said no. I make no excuses for her affair, but I do accept my role in the problems in the marriage.

Have I mentioned how bad this sucks ass?



Jasel said:


> The-Deceived, sorry what you've been going through. I'm just curious if you don't mind me asking. Has your wife ever had any type of therapy or counseling in the past?


----------



## Chaparral

From wikipedia


The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are pop culture symbols representing the choice between the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue) and embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality (red).

The terms, popularized in science fiction culture, derive from the 1999 film The Matrix. In the movie, the main character Neo is offered the choice between a red pill and a blue pill. The blue pill would allow him to remain in the fabricated reality of the Matrix. The red pill would lead to his escape from the Matrix and into the "real world".


----------



## The-Deceived

snap said:


> We hear it so often on this forum that it's almost an in-joke. Nearly every cheating wife trying to reconcile describes how bad the OM is in the sack.


Makes sense.


----------



## Jasel

The-Decieved said:


> *Have I mentioned how bad this sucks ass?*


Man I can't even imagine. You have my sympathy. But you sound like you're taking all the right steps.


----------



## The-Deceived

I got that - was wondering why he thinks she was attracted to such a loser azzhole...because she's one herself?



chapparal said:


> From wikipedia
> 
> 
> The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are pop culture symbols representing the choice between the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue) and embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality (red).
> 
> The terms, popularized in science fiction culture, derive from the 1999 film The Matrix. In the movie, the main character Neo is offered the choice between a red pill and a blue pill. The blue pill would allow him to remain in the fabricated reality of the Matrix. The red pill would lead to his escape from the Matrix and into the "real world".


----------



## ShootMePlz!

"Nearly every cheating wife trying to reconcile describes how bad the OM is in the sack."

If it was so bad why go back and do it again??:scratchhead:


----------



## Chaparral

The-Decieved said:


> I got that - was wondering why he thinks she was attracted to such a loser azzhole...because she's one herself?


She works in a bar. Her reality isn't real.


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> Man I can't even imagine. You have my sympathy. But you sound like you're taking all the right steps.


Thanks - I hope so! I'm not used to not having an answer. I'm an analyst by profession - so I'm good at problem solving. But this? I may as well be flipping burgers at Rotten Ronnies. Bloody clueless.


----------



## Chaparral

Don't forget the free dope. 

I actually am around people occasionally (construction industry) that know real crack hos. No one would believe the stories I have heard.


----------



## The-Deceived

chapparal said:


> She works in a bar. Her reality isn't real.


True. It's a culture of idiocy. Stupid, shallow, talentless knotheads who never grow past 20 years old mentally. I despise it.


----------



## Hope1964

You're lucky that the 'right' things seem intuitive to you. They did to me too.

Maybe it's that good old Alberta beef, eh?  (DO NOT tell me you're a vegan or something - that would not compute!)


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

The-Decieved said:


> She said the sex was bad because he was so wasted all the time he couldn't "carry thru".
> *This is called minimizing. Generally first it's just "flirting", then "we kissed once", then "we had sex but it was bad." She thinks she is doing this to protect you from hurt, but she is subconciously doing it to save herself from the shame she feels. Shame is good, let her feel it by showing her the truth.*
> 
> She's told my anything I ask. For example I asked if they did anal. She said no way.
> *I dunno, it doesn't seem like you will be getting any truth outta her. So just assume the worst you can. It probably is true.*
> 
> She thinks he's going to die soon. Either an OD or get shot. Here's hoping.
> * Okay, LOL. Here's hoping,too. But don't forget it's never about the AP. It's about What the WS feels during the affair. *
> 
> Biker guys in organized crime are such ********* losers. Pathetic.
> *You see them as losers, their groupies think of them as badasses and kings of the street.*


The red pill means embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality. Your wife wasn't attracted to this guy just because they were childhood dates. Do you think she would have cheated on you with him if he was a bumbling, self concious, balding, short fat man(exceptions aside of course, Danny DeVito the womanizer being one.) You seem to be a nice guy and the fact about nice guys are, we tend to pedestalize the pvssy, heightening its value and lowering ours. Learn about "the game". Read MMSL.

That being said. Don't ever forget to get her to deal with her issues, too. Don't enable her to fall back into blissful ignorance.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> You're lucky that the 'right' things seem intuitive to you. They did to me too.
> 
> Maybe it's that good old Alberta beef, eh?  (DO NOT tell me you're a vegan or something - that would not compute!)


Thanks Hope. Nope - we had bbq Alberta beef for supper last night!


----------



## The-Deceived

I hear ya. I would consider myself to be a good guy - not necessarily a nice guy (in that context). Getting out there and picking up women was good for me. It showed me how confident I am and that I have no problem getting hot pus*y. Until she begged me to fight for us, I was going to happily continue being a player. And if she ****s with me again, that's right back where I'll be. And I'll enjoy every ****en minute of it. I had 5 different women going on within 2 weeks of separating. Only slept with the 1 - but it was early days. 



Shadow_Nirvana said:


> The red pill means embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality. Your wife wasn't attracted to this guy just because they were childhood dates. Do you think she would have cheated on you with him if he was a bumbling, self concious, balding, short fat man(exceptions aside of course, Danny DeVito the womanizer being one.) Read about the game. You seem to be a nice guy and the fact about nice guys are, we tend to pedestalize the pvssy, heightening its value and lowering ours. Learn about "the game". Read MMSL.
> 
> That being said. Don't ever forget to get her to deal with her issues, too. Don't enable her to fall back into blissful ignorance.


----------



## The-Deceived

Come to think of it - I miss dating already. LOL.


----------



## Shaggy

The-Decieved said:


> Come to think of it - I miss dating already. LOL.


Then take your wife out on a date. 

Have her quit that job today
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

Shaggy said:


> Then take your wife out on a date.
> 
> Have her quit that job today
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: Excellent idea.


----------



## Lovemytruck

The-Decieved said:


> Come to think of it - I miss dating already. LOL.


TD,

It is refreshing to read the part in your story about how you know you can move ahead without her. Sorry you had all of this happen. It does suck. Been there.

I don't post much, but I do want to let you know that the dating thing might just be what ends your R. * Not necessarily a bad thing.* 

I was on the fence in R for some time. 8 months post DDay I decided I would move on. 

It was SO GOOD to relate to decent women that were not self-serving, showing self-pity, entitlement mentality, etc. that I made my choice to end the R and go to a D.

*The silver lining for being a BS is that we get a chance to start fresh.* I was married at the age of 22. The marriage lasted 23 years. The dating scene was a little scary, but exciting. It is wonderful to date women with the wisdom and experience that comes with the years of life.

I am happily re-married to a very different woman. It is still work, but it is wonderful to know that all women are not as bad as your (or my) first choice. Lol! 

Good luck! You are ahead of the curve with your confidence in your ability to move on. That is a blessing!


----------



## The Middleman

The-Decieved said:


> Come to think of it - I miss dating already. LOL.


The fact that you were out there, successfully dating and having a sexual relationship *IS* the reason she came "crawling" back. The minute they (WS's) see that you can do just fine without them in your life, you are back in the driver's seat. What ever you do, don't get out of that driver's seat. Always be in the lead in your relationship.

Edit: Those sexual relationships do have their value.


----------



## Lovemytruck

Lovemytruck said:


> TD,
> 
> It is refreshing to read the part in your story about how you know you can move ahead without her. Sorry you had all of this happen. It does suck. Been there.
> 
> I don't post much, but I do want to let you know that the dating thing might just be what ends your R. * Not necessarily a bad thing.*
> 
> I was on the fence in R for some time. 8 months post DDay I decided I would move on.
> 
> It was SO GOOD to relate to decent women that were not self-serving, showing self-pity, entitlement mentality, etc. that I made my choice to end the R and go to a D.
> 
> *The silver lining for being a BS is that we get a chance to start fresh.* I was married at the age of 22. The marriage lasted 23 years. The dating scene was a little scary, but exciting. It is wonderful to date women with the wisdom and experience that comes with the years of life.
> 
> I am happily re-married to a very different woman. It is still work, but it is wonderful to know that all women are not as bad as your (or my) first choice. Lol!
> 
> Good luck! You are ahead of the curve with your confidence in your ability to move on. That is a blessing!


----------



## Lovemytruck

Don't mean to sound like I am pro-divorce!

It is so very difficult to go through a betrayal. I am actually very committed to the concept of marriage.

God Bless your broken heart and home.


----------



## The-Deceived

Thanks Truck man! Me going out and dating totally changed her view of me. And me of myself.

She said as painful as it is for her, me sleeping with Irish was necessary for us to R.


----------



## JMGrey

The-Decieved said:


> Thanks Truck man! Me going out and dating totally changed her view of me. And me of myself.
> 
> She said as painful as it is for her, me sleeping with Irish was necessary for us to R.


Eh, maybe I'm just unfairly not giving her the benefit of the doubt, but I have trouble swallowing that she feels like your tryst was healthy for the relationship, because that sort of magnanimity is a little too profound for a woman still half in a fog. It'd probably be more apt to say that while she hates that she wasn't irreplaceable, it also puts you on the same level in terms of formally cheating. Just my thoughts.


----------



## The-Deceived

The first time my wife saw me was when I was performing with my band. That's what she fell in love with. Until we split, I hadn't performed in 2 years. Lately I've been playing out again, which she said she misses so much - she's been craving to see me play live again.

So I'm taking her out tonight and playing live for her. We're dating again and really enjoying it. Who knew?


----------



## RWB

JMGrey said:


> It'd probably be more apt to say that while she hates that she wasn't irreplaceable, it also puts you on the *same level in terms of formally cheating.*


When I caught my wife cheating (30 years married) she was ashamed, guilty, and finally remorseful. Basically, she was all over the place. After a few days, when the reality of what she had become was staring her in the face...

She said to me... "I want you to have an affair." I was like for what? What good would that do for you or me? "It would make us both horrible." 

Get the point.


----------



## The-Deceived

Is it cheating if you're legally separated? I don't think so...


----------



## Lovemytruck

RWB said:


> When I caught my wife cheating (30 years married) she was ashamed, guilty, and finally remorseful. Basically, she was all over the place. After a few days, when the reality of what she had become was staring her in the face...
> 
> She said to me... "I want you to have an affair." I was like for what? What good would that do for you or me? "It would make us both horrible."
> 
> Get the point.


Sounds like we all are agreeing in different ways. Lol! RAs are not good. Any betrayal is bad.

Knowing you have better options than dealing with a WS that won't own their issues is comforting.

A WS knowning that you have better options is a fog lifter!

Be careful when playing with fire. It is a game changer for sure.


----------



## snap

When you were just made redundant at work on some beautiful Friday, you're not letting down anyone by sending resumes and taking job interviews elsewhere.

Same here. I would perhaps wait for divorce (just to get my sh*t together first), but everyone has their pace for recovery.


----------



## Lovemytruck

So much for cliches. Confidence in yourself is as important as having morals.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Decieved said:


> Is it cheating if you're legally separated? I don't think so...


Depends entirely what you've agreed to and what your own beliefs are.

Some people think that my husband didn't cheat when he hired the hooker - I had kicked him out after all. I beg to differ - we were in MC trying to R at the time - to me he cheated. And he knew it was cheating too.

However, when I was in the process of D after my first marriage I met my current hubby and had sex with him before things were final. Some consider that cheating. I don't. I had been done with my ex for years, and he had no expectation of us getting back together.

So my point is that you have to decide what's right in your own situation. If you and you wife both agree things are over for good, then it isn't cheating.


----------



## The-Deceived

At the point I was with this girl, my wife had told me to move on, and "be great!". She even told me she was sure I was going to be a dad again, and that it killed her, but she would be happy for me.

I don't think she expected me to "move on" as quickly as I did though. She said that definitely lifted her out of her fog and was a reality check.

She apparently established a relationship with doucheba*gs teenage daughter. On Monday she told her she can't speak to her any more. I guess this poor kid has a ****head of a father and mother - they're both scum. But, she told my wife this idiot has a new squeeze and has no intention of contacting my wife again. He also gave her his word on that, whatever that means. She sent him a NC text, asking him to leave her be and that she was committed to our marriage. I guess he said he'd respect that and hasn't contacted her since.

She also toasted any mutual friends they had on Facebook.


----------



## 3putt

The-Decieved said:


> Is it cheating if you're legally separated? I don't think so...


Ask any lawyer in a fault state that question and see how many of them answer, "No, it's not cheating if you're separated".


----------



## lovelygirl

1. She said she wants to be with you because she feels safe.
2. She said the other guy sucked in bed and it wasn't like she expected.
3. She thought your affair (I still call it an affair because you weren't divorced) was necessary to get her feelings back for you. 

Can't you see the mess that she is? She's a cake eater and her affair would be still going if the guy was great in bed. Make sure you remembe this. In none I'd her sentences she said she loved you. Probably the OM dumped her or she left him out of disappointment. Where do you fit in all this? Nowhere!

And if you're both able to sleep with a random person that comes your way as soon as something is wrong with your marriage then it speaks volumes about how unstable you are when it comes to caring about each other.

Anyway, you both rug swept and soon you'll feel the consequences. Actually, you've started to feel them now, otherwise this thread wouldnt exist in the first place.

Good luck with your R but make sure you follow the advice of people who have been in your shoes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JMGrey

lovelygirl said:


> 1. She said *she wants* to be with you because *she feels* safe.
> 2. She said the other guy sucked in bed and it wasn't like *she expected*.
> 3. *She thought* your affair (I still call it an affair because you weren't divorced) was necessary to get *her feelings* back for you.
> 
> Can't you see the mess that she is? She's a cake eater and her affair would be still going if the guy was great in bed. Make sure you remembe this. In none I'd her sentences she said she loved you. Probably the OM dumped her or she left him out of disappointment. Where do you fit in all this? Nowhere!
> 
> And if you're both able to sleep with a random person that comes your way as soon as something is wrong with your marriage then it speaks volumes about how unstable you are when it comes to caring about each other.
> 
> Anyway, you both rug swept and soon you'll feel the consequences. Actually, you've started to feel them now, otherwise this thread wouldnt exist in the first place.
> 
> Good luck with your R but make sure you follow the advice of people who have been in your shoes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

You see the parts I've bolded, TD? That's why I'm doubtful about your reconciliation. This whole drama, from the affair to her coming back, was all about her, her feelings, her expectations. Now it's about her security. If this attitude persists, you will simply be bankrolling her till she finds the next unscrupulous guy which, having learned her mistakes, won't a biker and a drug addict.


----------



## The-Deceived

She's a mess, yes. However - throughout this entire thing - even when we were separated, she professed her love for me. Now it's probably 10 or 20 times a day. 

No question - our marriage was extremely broken, and she has a lot of deep seeded emotional problems. But at this point, and for the past few weeks, it's been brutal honesty, constant communication and a recognition by both of us what was wrong with the marriage. She's always acknowledged her own problems, but we never did anything about them. We've both accepted responsibility for those short comings and are focused on fixing them. And we're doing pretty damn good.

She ended the affair weeks before she left. She was trying to "fill a void" with this guy, and it didn't work. We do have 12 years married together though, and for us, and for our kids, I'm willing to try a genuine R, and so is she.

If it doesn't work, so be it. But we're both trying, and trying hard. 



lovelygirl said:


> 1. She said she wants to be with you because she feels safe.
> 2. She said the other guy sucked in bed and it wasn't like she expected.
> 3. She thought your affair (I still call it an affair because you weren't divorced) was necessary to get her feelings back for you.
> 
> Can't you see the mess that she is? She's a cake eater and her affair would be still going if the guy was great in bed. Make sure you remembe this. In none I'd her sentences she said she loved you. Probably the OM dumped her or she left him out of disappointment. Where do you fit in all this? Nowhere!
> 
> And if you're both able to sleep with a random person that comes your way as soon as something is wrong with your marriage then it speaks volumes about how unstable you are when it comes to caring about each other.
> 
> Anyway, you both rug swept and soon you'll feel the consequences. Actually, you've started to feel them now, otherwise this thread wouldnt exist in the first place.
> 
> Good luck with your R but make sure you follow the advice of people who have been in your shoes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

If that's the case, that's the case. Then I will be done forever. 



JMGrey said:


> :iagree:
> 
> You see the parts I've bolded, TD? That's why I'm doubtful about your reconciliation. This whole drama, from the affair to her coming back, was all about her, her feelings, her expectations. Now it's about her security. If this attitude persists, you will simply be bankrolling her till she finds the next unscrupulous guy which, having learned her mistakes, won't a biker and a drug addict.


----------



## Chaparral

The-Decieved said:


> Is it cheating if you're legally separated? I don't think so...


As far a s I'm concerned, its not cheating after the vows are broken. The written contract is just a relatively,recent invention. Just a bookkeeping matter.


----------



## Wiserforit

The-Decieved said:


> As for the girl I slept with - I didn't use her like that - I really liked her! She was super cool. I was totally honest with her. She was mad at first but then thanked me for my honesty. I wouldn't use someone like that.


Nobody gets angry if you introduce yourself as a married man. A ring on your finger broadcasts that before you even speak. Anger comes from being led to believe something, and it is so cliche to tell them after you've already had sex with them. No matter how you cut this, when the ring is off the finger you've already concealed something. Of course, it is easy to rationalize this but let's not overstate "total honesty". 

The business about missing the dating already too - geez this switching of gears so easily on both sides seems superficial to me. My own experience was a complete lack of interest in anyone else for six months after the divorce. No fear of dating, just empty inside. Add that to the months getting the divorce through too, come to think of it. And I was lead singer in a band that could have taken a romp just about any night we were playing even when married. 

I'd not be quite so cheery about the reconciliation this early in the game. On her part for the reasons others have stated, and on your part for the above. In the wake of an affair there is shock, roller-coaster, or post-traumatic-stress-syndrome or whatever and it takes more like six months to a couple of years for a recovery to really take hold. 

I'd be just a little more circumspect about difficult work ahead and expectations about how long this is going to take.


----------



## Shaggy

The-Decieved said:


> She ended the affair weeks before she left. She was trying to "fill a void" with this guy, and it didn't work. We do have 12 years married together though, and for us, and for our kids, I'm willing to try a genuine R, and so is she.


No she didn't end the affair weeks before - if I recall the details she slept with him just a couple of weeks ago in December right? 

The affair end date starts when she's gone NC forever with him. 

If she loved you and told you all the time during the affair , then I'm very worried that you'll find yourself in a false R. 

Right now the OM is out of picture so it's easier for her to not be distracted by him. But what if he pops up again?

Already his daughter has been talking to your wife and providing details about what the OM is up to. good for your wife saying she can't be friends with the girl - but she now has to carry through in the long haul.


----------



## the guy

Your old lady seems to be facing alot consequences which is good. Alot of terms of affection and I love you's is also good. 

I suggest you throw that old marriage out and start a new one with the same chick..I did and its been good for going on 3 years now. Both of us are no longer the individuals we once were. A life style change that has made it work.

So hang in there my man it does get better when there is a huge degree of submission by your old lady. The heavy lift she does in helping you heal and the tools she learns in affair proofing the marriage will go along way.....

Again the life style change has alot to do with affair proofing the marriage, but she has to have the tools to prevent that insecure bullsh1t that got her in trouple in the 1st place. Part of her issues that have nothing to do with you or the marriage but her self as an individual that needs to be adressed so its eaqually important that she adress that...which it looks like she is.


----------



## The-Deceived

Wiserforit said:


> Nobody gets angry if you introduce yourself as a married man. A ring on your finger broadcasts that before you even speak. Anger comes from being led to believe something, and it is so cliche to tell them after you've already had sex with them. No matter how you cut this, when the ring is off the finger you've already concealed something. Of course, it is easy to rationalize this but let's not overstate "total honesty".
> 
> The business about missing the dating already too - geez this switching of gears so easily on both sides seems superficial to me. My own experience was a complete lack of interest in anyone else for six months after the divorce. No fear of dating, just empty inside. Add that to the months getting the divorce through too, come to think of it. And I was lead singer in a band that could have taken a romp just about any night we were playing even when married.
> 
> I'd not be quite so cheery about the reconciliation this early in the game. On her part for the reasons others have stated, and on your part for the above. In the wake of an affair there is shock, roller-coaster, or post-traumatic-stress-syndrome or whatever and it takes more like six months to a couple of years for a recovery to really take hold.
> 
> I'd be just a little more circumspect about difficult work ahead and expectations about how long this is going to take.


Cheery I am not. Cautiously optimistic, at best.

Difficult work and it's going to take a LONG time. Another counselling session tomorrow. And we are both reading and working thru the steps in "Getting past the affair" book.

One thing that came out in therapy was this: The reason she gave for the affair was that she felt emotionally abandoned, that I didn't love her anymore. That when she asked me for those things and I said no, she took that as a rejection of her by me. It came out that the reason I rejected her was because I was resentful of the mistrust and cheating accusations for all those years - I pulled away.

She said it hit her like a ton of bricks that I didn't in fact pull away - she pushed me away. She has owned this and it made her feel even worse.

She also told me she has 100% accountability for the affair and that I was not at fault in any way. She sees that going for such a bottom of the barrel POS was an indication of how she felt about herself. 

She's doing a lot of heavy lifting. She has another job interview this week, and has applied to be a school bus driver. 

We'll see. Like I said, very cautiously optimistic about our future. But I'm still ready to walk should she do anything to break my trust in any way.


----------



## The-Deceived

Went to counselling today. I brought up that I was having a real hard time with the flashbacks of her cheating. We talked about that a bit.

She's doing good work, we are doing well, communicating a lot. Being honest.

However the therapist pissed me off with a couple things. My wife was talking about dealing with my questions. For one, "how could you do this to me?". The therapist piped up and said "but you didn't DO THIS TO HIM". Then she looked at me and said "that makes it sound like you are a victim". Ahhhh, as far as I'm concerned, I am a f*cking victim! A victim of my wife's betrayal and infidelity. She (the therapist) also tried to shift the blame of her affair over to me, saying I contributed to it happening. I may have contributed to the state of our marriage, but I refuse to take any blame for her affair.

I also told her how I was flabbergasted by the fact that she put me at risk for STD's, put my and my children's well being in danger by ****ing a thug. How could she do that?

Is there a reason the therapist would not want me to see myself as a victim? Am I not?

My wife also said she's afraid she has broken me, and that I will never be able to really forgive her. Honestly I don't know if I can. Right now the betrayal is all consuming and I just don't see being able to get past it. My wife is doing everything right at this point in terms of R. I just don't know if I have it in me to get past it, to forgive her. I want to, but can I?


----------



## tom67

Ok first forget that therapist what garbage you need one that has experience in infedelity. Ask the therapist if they know the book not just friends by sharon glass if they don't move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

tom67 said:


> Ok first forget that therapist what garbage you need one that has experience in infedelity. Ask the therapist if they know the book not just friends by sharon glass if they don't move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have that book at home - have to dig into it.


----------



## Jasel

Doesn't sound like the greatest therapist. Was that the first one you guys found that you liked?


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> Doesn't sound like the greatest therapist. Was that the first one you guys found that you liked?


She's the only person we've seen (saw her twice so far). Having no experience with this, I don't know what I'm supposed to look for...


----------



## sandc

The-Decieved said:


> Is there a reason the therapist would not want me to see myself as a victim? Am I not?


Indeed you are. This is an emotional crime she committed against you.



The-Decieved said:


> My wife also said she's afraid she has broken me, and that I will never be able to really forgive her. Honestly I don't know if I can. Right now the betrayal is all consuming and I just don't see being able to get past it. My wife is doing everything right at this point in terms of R. I just don't know if I have it in me to get past it, to forgive her. I want to, but can I?


Tell your wife that she doesn't have the power to "break" you. You have the power to walk away and be perfectly happy. You are unbreakable and more man than she can possibly imagine because you are GIVING her this one chance, ONE. 

It's up to you if you want to forgive her. At some point, for yourself you should forgive her. You need to come up with a balance sheet. On the one side, life with her, on the other life without her. Which side weighs more heavily? But remember, forgiveness doesn't mean a penalty is not paid.


----------



## The-Deceived

sandc said:


> Indeed you are. This is an emotional crime she committed against you.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell your wife that she doesn't have the power to "break" you. You have the power to walk away and be perfectly happy. You are unbreakable and more man than she can possibly imagine because you are GIVING her this one chance, ONE.
> 
> It's up to you if you want to forgive her. At some point, for yourself you should forgive her. You need to come up with a balance sheet. On the one side, life with her, on the other life without her. Which side weighs more heavily? But remember, forgiveness doesn't mean a penalty is not paid.


Thank you sandc - and indeed she hasn't broken me. She has broken my trust, but not me. I know I could leave her and be happy...she knows that too. 

The balance sheet is a good idea. I'll do it.

What is the penalty though, I wonder?


----------



## bfree

Oh boy. You have a crap therapist. Any therapist that does not hold the WS responsible for the affair is really bad and can do more damage than help. When you looked into getting one did you ask if they were experienced in cases of infidelity?


----------



## sandc

The penalty is all the heavy lifting. Living her life with ZERO privacy. Living her life knowing that you will never be able to fully trust her again.

That's something you have to think about too. Do you think you can live a life where you have to check up on what she's doing all the time? You'll have to be most vigilant just when you think you can trust her again.


----------



## walkonmars

Some MCs want to spread the blame - it's easier for the therapist if both accept some blame. It's much harder, and less successful if the issue of infidelity is placed where it belongs, because the wayward will become defensive and resist the MCs work.

That's why it's important to go to an MC that is experienced with infidelity. They have ways of doing the hard work and digging. 

This one wants you to do the work in examining yourself and accepting false blame. Once you do, she can pat herself on the back for saving another marriage. She doesn't care what happens in six months when the unresolved issues rise to the surface again. 

It's best to see no MC than an incompetent one. Write a check to the Red Cross instead of the MC, it will be put to better use.


----------



## bfree

walkonmars said:


> Some MCs want to spread the blame - it's easier for the therapist if both accept some blame. It's much harder, and less successful if the issue of infidelity is placed where it belongs, because the wayward will become defensive and resist the MCs work.
> 
> That's why it's important to go to an MC that is experienced with infidelity. They have ways of doing the hard work and digging.
> 
> This one wants you to do the work in examining yourself and accepting false blame. Once you do, she can pat herself on the back for saving another marriage. She doesn't care what happens in six months when the unresolved issues rise to the surface again.
> 
> It's best to see no MC than an incompetent one. Write a check to the Red Cross instead of the MC, it will be put to better use.


Who is the poster that is now getting divorced after years of false R because the MC convinced him that he was to blame? Is it strugglingforever?


----------



## theroad

3putt said:


> Ask any lawyer in a fault state that question and see how many of them answer, "No, it's not cheating if you're separated".


 Allowing just what is legal based on the law will often cause bad/wrong decisions to be made.

I believe with a formal legal no longer cohabitating, in the courts eye a spouse can not file for a divorce on the basis that their spouse sleep with an OP.

In the pain that dating and having sex while separated hurts just as much as a regular affair.

This is why people should not date when separated because the pain and additional baggage that is created when recovery is to be attempted.


----------



## theroad

chapparal said:


> As far a s I'm concerned, its not cheating after the vows are broken. The written contract is just a relatively,recent invention. Just a bookkeeping matter.


Until the divorce is final you are married. when you are married you do not date others.

If you are in that bad of shape and lack that much self control then you need to see an IC.


----------



## 3putt

The last few comments only serve to reinforce the MC failure rate of 84%. Why people would even think about going to these people that have NO experience in dealing with infidelity is beyond me. TD, you need to fire this idiot yesterday. BTW, that 84% failure rate is with marriages that are AND are not affected by infidelity. You break the numbers down a little further into only infidelity cases, and they're probably quite scary.

Also, if you're serious about wanting to recover your marriage and want the best shot at this, then (at the point you are) I would highly recommend the MB Online Course. I'm not going to type out all that it offers as you can read it for yourself, but if both parties are fully on board with recovery, then this program has close to a 100% success rate. (The course I'm talking about is at the bottom of the page)

Home Study Courses, Seminar, Accountablity Program

I would also encourage you to go to the home page after digesting this, read the basic concepts, and go from there. Hey, you may even find all you need to fully recover on the website if you invest the time to study what Dr. Harley teaches. Happens all the time.

I hope you'll at least consider it. Seriously, what do you have to lose?

Good Luck!


----------



## theroad

The-Decieved said:


> However the therapist pissed me off with a couple things. My wife was talking about dealing with my questions. For one, "how could you do this to me?". The therapist piped up and said "but you didn't DO THIS TO HIM". Then she looked at me and said "that makes it sound like you are a victim". Ahhhh, as far as I'm concerned, I am a f*cking victim! A victim of my wife's betrayal and infidelity. She (the therapist) also tried to shift the blame of her affair over to me, saying I contributed to it happening. I may have contributed to the state of our marriage, but I refuse to take any blame for her affair.
> 
> I also told her how I was flabbergasted by the fact that she put me at risk for STD's, put my and my children's well being in danger by ****ing a thug. How could she do that?
> 
> Is there a reason the therapist would not want me to see myself as a victim? Am I not?


Therapists do not do infidelity, well not good that is. Counselors prioroty is to make patient feel good. If WW hears what she does not like she will not go anymore then Counselor loses a repeat paying customer. This is why they have a 78% failure rate.


----------



## Shaggy

Tomorrow fire the therapist. She's crappy. Any therapist who blames the bs for the affair needs to be fired immediately.

Do not debate it or even confront the therapist, just dump her.

Now interview new ones.

Basic questions for them:

Is the bs every responsible of the affair?
Does the bs deserve to have all their questions answered?
What is your goal? Is it to rug sweep the affair or is it to heal the marriage?


----------



## The-Deceived

Yeah she's toast. F*cking quack. I told my wife this morning I refuse to take any blame for the affair. And that I am most certainly a victim. She agreed and said she doesn't want me to take any blame for the affair. She's still at the bar. I told her if she's not out right away, I'm out. She said before "I can't do a desk job". Bullsh*t. I said if you really care about this family, you'll take anything you can get - and not in a bar. Actions, not words. Let's see what she does now. I am in control here, not her. I hold the cards. If she doesn't put her money where her mouth is, I'll bail in a heartbeat.


----------



## Jasel

The-Decieved said:


> Yeah she's toast. F*cking quack. I told my wife this morning I refuse to take any blame for the affair. And that I am most certainly a victim. She agreed and said she doesn't want me to take any blame for the affair. She's still at the bar. I told her if she's not out right away, I'm out. She said before "I can't do a desk job". Bullsh*t. I said if you really care about this family, you'll take anything you can get - and not in a bar. Actions, not words. Let's see what she does now. I am in control here, not her. I hold the cards. If she doesn't put her money where her mouth is, I'll bail in a heartbeat.


Excuse me sir but your balls are on full display:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## tom67

Jasel said:


> Excuse me sir but your balls are on full display:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


:iagree::lol:


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> Excuse me sir but your balls are on full display:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


LOL. Sorry, I'll tuck them in.


----------



## The-Deceived

She left me before I found out about the affair. When I did find out (4 days after her leaving) it was difficult. But now that I am with her again, and we are working at R, it's even harder than at first - BECAUSE I'm with her. When she was out of my life, it was way easier. Out of sight out of mind? Now I am with her and it's so very difficult - the flashbacks are far worse and more painful.

No easy way - damned if you do...the idea that this will never really go away is horrifying.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Decieved said:


> She left me before I found out about the affair. When I did find out (4 days after her leaving) it was difficult. But now that I am with her again, and we are working at R, it's even harder than at first - BECAUSE I'm with her. When she was out of my life, it was way easier. Out of sight out of mind? Now I am with her and it's so very difficult - the flashbacks are far worse and more painful.
> 
> No easy way - damned if you do...the idea that this will never really go away is horrifying.


It will get better, though. The MOST IMPORTANT THING you can do right now is to keep at her. DO NOT let her get away with anything. And do NOT settle for her. Sure, you love her and all that, but now that you've gotten your balls back, you're gonna wanna use em. If she isn't gonna smarten WAY the hell up, use em with someone else.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> It will get better, though. The MOST IMPORTANT THING you can do right now is to keep at her. DO NOT let her get away with anything. And do NOT settle for her. Sure, you love her and all that, but now that you've gotten your balls back, you're gonna wanna use em. If she isn't gonna smarten WAY the hell up, use em with someone else.


Thanks Hope. And I hope you're right.

I intend to. I HAVE to.


----------



## bfree

TD,

When she comes home or tonight if she already is, hand her the phone and say "the job or me, right now, decide." Tell her no 2 weeks notice, no thinking about it, no I don't like desk jobs, NOW. Make her call and quit NOW. Until she does that you cannot R.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Decieved said:


> Thanks Hope. And I hope you're right.
> 
> I intend to. I HAVE to.


I AM right. I know - I've been through it. Keep up the good work!!


----------



## Wiserforit

The-Decieved said:


> Yeah she's toast. F*cking quack. I told my wife this morning I refuse to take any blame for the affair.


That's incredible, what your counselor said, but I have seen just as bad.

What the counselor said constitutes abuse. Marriage is literally a contract you sign, and fidelity is part of that legal contract, constituting a basis for divorce with cause.

She isn't just morally wrong, but legally wrong just as much as telling someone who is robbed at gunpoint that they are not a victim.


----------



## theroad

bfree said:


> TD,
> 
> When she comes home or tonight if she already is, hand her the phone and say "the job or me, right now, decide." Tell her no 2 weeks notice, no thinking about it, no I don't like desk jobs, NOW. Make her call and quit NOW. Until she does that you cannot R.


Tell WW that tonight was her last night working at the bar.


----------



## The-Deceived

Have any BS's here tried R, only to get to a point down the line when they bailed because they just couldn't get past the betrayal? Things are going well between us. She's doing the heavy lifting. 

I'm so used to being able to make a decision and stick to my guns. But I'm waffling here. I despise that my confidence and trust have been compromised. 

Her insecurity is WORSE now. She's wanting to know all the sordid details of my tryst with Irish girl. She's obsessing. And waiting for me to have a revenge affair. If she can't get past her insecurity and lack of self esteem, can she ever be trusted?

I am so angry about the danger she has put us in. Unprotected sex with a slimy doucheb*g then letting me f*ck her. The danger we are all in in case he decides to do something violent. Now I sit up at night wondering what went bump in the night. I'm looking at self defence weapons (extendible batons and what not). 

I'm not sure she could have screwed me/us over any worse if she tried.

"I need you". "I can't live without you". "I don't deserve you or forgiveness". "What have I done?". I'll say!


----------



## walkonmars

Post a mini-version of your story on this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html

Ask your question there. You will find people who are trying R in that thread. You can get support and ask them what kind of things they went through. They will also be able to tell you if your W is actually doing the "heavy lifting" 

You will find both BH/WW and BW/WH there


----------



## The-Deceived

Thanks walkonmars.


----------



## Shaggy

Has she quit her job and started living on the same daytime schedule as you?

Has she started any kind of counselling to deal wth her issues? They led her to cheat, so you really need to get her help.


----------



## The-Deceived

Shaggy said:


> Has she quit her job and started living on the same daytime schedule as you?
> 
> Has she started any kind of counselling to deal wth her issues? They led her to cheat, so you really need to get her help.


She's at a job interview right now. She's down to 2 days a week at the other place.

She has an appointment for IC on Tuesday. So do I.

Last night we went to my mom's for dinner - first time she's seen them since this went down. She got a little drunk as she was scared. We ended up in an argument - we plan to go out for Valentines Day, and she brought up my folks babysitting the kids that night. She then pissed me off by saying "you were going to forget to ask - this is the kind of stuff that's really important to us - don't forget about this stuff". I lost it. I said she is in no position to ask me for anything right now. It got heated and I told her to go to her friend's house. She sat on my lap and grabbed my face, yelled at me to fight for this, not to give up. But if I really want her to go, she will. 

She then told me that during our separation, the kids were the only thing that kept her from "eating a gun". She is so damaged. I told her I felt trapped as I know she'd go off the deep end if I end it - and that I worry about the kids with her in that state.

She just keeps saying she is going to spend the rest of her life making up for this. She's so thankful for this chance. Please let her make it up to me.

She also said she needs lots of love from me and that she knows it's unfair of her to ask anything of my right now, but she needs me to be strong for her. She told her mom she was going for IC and her mom cried - she knows she needs help.

I'm still really struggling. I go back and forth 1000 times a day on whether to stay or not. She's so damaged. I do feel trapped. I know she'll go right back to self destruct if I end it. 

**** me. How can I be expected to be the emotionally strong one right now?


----------



## sandc

This sounds like manipulation to me. I think you need to talk to her IC and let the counselor know your wife is suicidal. The IC can check to see if this is genuine or manipulation on her part. There are cetainly people who will take their own lives to prove a point, but there are far more manipulators.


----------



## Jasel

Man that's rough. But what do YOU want? Do you want to R or are you just on the fence about it? At least your wife seems pro-active about getting help and seems to realize she needs it.


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> Man that's rough. But what do YOU want? Do you want to R or are you just on the fence about it? At least your wife seems pro-active about getting help and seems to realize she needs it.


I want to R, but I'm still torn as to whether I can handle living with the betrayal. I do love her, and I love being with her, and by and large we are doing well. She is really working hard. She definitely owns her issues and wants to get help. This is a therapist she had seen several times a ways back - she likes her a lot. This therapist is moving away soon, but will do Skype sessions. 

I told her again last night I'm on the edge, and I don't know what will happen. She says she will do anything to regain my trust, but she doesn't want me to live in fear. I don't want to live in fear or in anger.


----------



## walkonmars

These are early days. The fact you are conflicted is a good sign. A very good sign regardless of the outcome. It demonstrates reflection and thoughtfulness. These will serve you much better than acting rashly and later regretting your actions.

Of course the downside of reflection is the constant internal battle of "what should I do?" it leads to frustration and justifiable anger for having been put in that position.

But you will come to terms - perhaps not totally satisfying terms - but terms nontheless. In the meantime, you are remainig vigilant that your WW is truly "in" and not wasting your time and effort. It has to be exhauting both physically and emotionally.

It's unfair right? She had her "fun" now you have to pay in some way thst was undeserved. Yeah, she has a burden NOW - but it's one of her making. 

You're approaching this the right way. Reflection. Time. Vigillance.


----------



## MattMatt

chapparal said:


> If the shoe fits. What do you think Hell's Angels' girls do? It ain't cookies they're sticking in the oven.


The rules are usually these: The President's Lady is treated like Royalty. Even, usually, by rival Chapters. Nobody touches her. Ever. 

Other women are Biker's Momas. That means that, pretty much, they are fair game for all other Chapter members.

Having said that, hopefully she didn't get into that part of the lifestyle and I hope you and her can either reconcile or at least be good parents to your children if you can't reconcile.


----------



## The-Deceived

walkonmars said:


> These are early days. The fact you are conflicted is a good sign. A very good sign regardless of the outcome. It demonstrates reflection and thoughtfulness. These will serve you much better than acting rashly and later regretting your actions.
> 
> Of course the downside of reflection is the constant internal battle of "what should I do?" it leads to frustration and justifiable anger for having been put in that position.
> 
> But you will come to terms - perhaps not totally satisfying terms - but terms nontheless. In the meantime, you are remainig vigilant that your WW is truly "in" and not wasting your time and effort. It has to be exhauting both physically and emotionally.
> 
> It's unfair right? She had her "fun" now you have to pay in some way thst was undeserved. Yeah, she has a burden NOW - but it's one of her making.
> 
> You're approaching this the right way. Reflection. Time. Vigillance.


Thanks for this.


----------



## The-Deceived

MattMatt said:


> The rules are usually these: The President's Lady is treated like Royalty. Even, usually, by rival Chapters. Nobody touches her. Ever.
> 
> Other women are Biker's Momas. That means that, pretty much, they are fair game for all other Chapter members.
> 
> Having said that, hopefully she didn't get into that part of the lifestyle and I hope you and her can either reconcile or at least be good parents to your children if you can't reconcile.


The more I ask her about it, it seems this guy is not really a full on HA, more of a poseur. Who knows. That's the beauty of having a grenade shoved up your ass. Anything can be a lie.


----------



## Acabado

> She sat on my lap and grabbed my face, yelled at me to fight for this, not to give up. But if I really want her to go, she will.





> She also said she needs lots of love from me and that she knows it's unfair of her to ask anything of my right now, but she needs me to be strong for her.


For some reason I like your wife's honesty. Beyond the obvious, blatant lie of this affair it seems one of her qualities. She demanded attention, she demanded the separation, she admited jelousy at GF, she doesn't avoid confrontation, she speaks for herself, she's radical, brutally honest with her emotions and feelings and admiting her f0ckedupness, she answers your questions about the affair with that almost naive candor... it's refreshing.
Someone pointed out manipulation, I asume due the suicide thoughs she claims had while separated but I don't see manipulation in your wife/story which, believe me it's the best you can dream in this kind of nightmare.


----------



## Jasel

Ya based on you've been saying about her from the start (and admittedly I don't know you or your wife personally) those suicide threats don't really sound like an attempt at manipulation. I'm glad she's getting IC because I'd take those seriously.


----------



## Shaggy

Get a new therapist that will be there in person. Skype won't do at all. The person needs to be there in person to pickup body language.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

The-Decieved said:


> The more I ask her about it, it seems this guy is not really a full on HA, more of a poseur.


And that makes everything OK?


----------



## Jasel

The Cro-Magnon said:


> And that makes everything OK?


In terms of his and his family's safety I would think so. Don't know much about HA but one of his concerns has been this guy coming after him or his wife.


----------



## The-Deceived

Acabado said:


> For some reason I like your wife's honesty. Beyond the obvious, blatant lie of this affair it seems one of her qualities. She demanded attention, she demanded the separation, she admited jelousy at GF, she doesn't avoid confrontation, she speaks for herself, she's radical, brutally honest with her emotions and feelings and admiting her f0ckedupness, she answers your questions about the affair with that almost naive candor... it's refreshing.
> Someone pointed out manipulation, I asume due the suicide thoughs she claims had while separated but I don't see manipulation in your wife/story which, believe me it's the best you can dream in this kind of nightmare.


Interesting perspective...she's definitely put it all out there.


----------



## The-Deceived

The Cro-Magnon said:


> And that makes everything OK?


NOTHING is OK.


----------



## bfree

Jasel said:


> In terms of his and his family's safety I would think so. Don't know much about HA but one of his concerns has been this guy coming after him or his wife.


If he's wearing the colors just pass his name on to the local chapter. He'll be much less of a problem then.


----------



## The-Deceived

I'm not sure what you mean...



bfree said:


> If he's wearing the colors just pass his name on to the local chapter. He'll be much less of a problem then.


----------



## bfree

The-Decieved said:


> I'm not sure what you mean...


If someone is not a member of the HA and wears their colors (jacket patches and emblems) he is going to get a severe beatdown if they find out. Sometimes its a permanent beatdown. They are very protective of their colors. Can you tell I'm aquainted?


----------



## Hope1964

I also think you should talk to her IC and tell them she's suicidal. Whatever you do, do NOT stay just because you think she'll kill herself otherwise. That would be horrible


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> I also think you should talk to her IC and tell them she's suicidal. Whatever you do, do NOT stay just because you think she'll kill herself otherwise. That would be horrible


I know...it's Catch 22. Mmmmkay...ready to wake up from this nightmare now.


----------



## The-Deceived

Unreal. We're 2 months from dday - 2 months and 4 days since she left me. She's put off and emotional that I'm not being "romantic" enough, that she needs to be "treated like a princess" and for me to "gush all over her". Texting me from the bathroom that she's in tears. SHe's been super gushy/romantic/loving/sweet with me. But I can't reciprocate that this ****ing instant. She apologizes for being so needy but she is!

2 ****ing months since this went down. Back together for 1. And I'm expected to be a hopeless romantic.

We've been hysterical bonding, and she said she thought sex and romance go hand in hand. Maybe. But now? I'm still bleeding for f*ck sake.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

The-Deceived said:


> Unreal. We're 2 months from dday - 2 months and 4 days since she left me. She's put off and emotional that I'm not being "romantic" enough, that she needs to be "treated like a princess" and for me to "gush all over her". Texting me from the bathroom that she's in tears. SHe's been super gushy/romantic/loving/sweet with me. But I can't reciprocate that this ****ing instant. She apologizes for being so needy but she is!
> 
> 2 ****ing months since this went down. Back together for 1. And I'm expected to be a hopeless romantic.
> 
> We've been hysterical bonding, and she said she thought sex and romance go hand in hand. Maybe. But now? I'm still bleeding for f*ck sake.


She is having withdrawal symptoms from her OM, and is feeling the pangs of need for him, her hysterical texting from the bathroom while blameshifting her distress onto you is just the way her hamster is rationalizing and coming up with an excuse for her feelings.

Watch she doesn't try to contact him again soon, IMO. Because you're neglecting her, didnchyaknow? I mean, you're basically FORCING her to reach out to him for company by being not romantic enough for her.



Watch yo' back, brosephina

Edit: Can't be all that much remorse knocking about in her heart if she expects OP to be plucking romantic ballads on a mandolin whilst on a bended knee before her, and with a rose in his teeth

"OH, mi amore! De way ewe let thatta worthless a bikie pound you like yesterday's beef, its a filla me witha LURVE for ewe!"

For contrast, a truly remorseful WW would do anything, walk over hot coals, take any step necessary, to help their LS heal.


----------



## The-Deceived

The Cro-Magnon said:


> She is having withdrawal symptoms from her OM, and is feeling the pangs of need for him, her hysterical texting from the bathroom while blameshifting her distress onto you is just the way her hamster is rationalizing and coming up with an excuse for her feelings.
> 
> Watch she doesn't try to contact him again soon, IMO. Because you're neglecting her, didnchyaknow? I mean, you're basically FORCING her to reach out to him for company by being not romantic enough for her.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch yo' back, brosephina
> 
> Edit: Can't be all that much remorse knocking about in her heart if she expects OP to be plucking romantic ballads on a mandolin whilst on a bended knee before her, and with a rose in his teeth
> 
> "OH, mi amore! De way ewe let thatta worthless a bikie pound you like yesterday's beef, its a filla me witha LURVE for ewe!"
> 
> For contrast, a truly remorseful WW would do anything, walk over hot coals, take any step necessary, to help their LS heal.


I don't think that's the case, but if it is, that will certainly end my struggle of whether to R or D. Make is easy for me.


----------



## The-Deceived

She's a genuinely insecure, needy, ****ed up person. But regardless of her intentions...WTF. 

I should not be feeling any guilt here, RIGHT???


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

The-Deceived said:


> I should not be feeling any guilt here, RIGHT???


Do you even need to ask?

Your reconciliation is doomed if she hasn't the perspective or empathy to truly understand what she did to you and your family. All she is capable of understanding and feeling are her own needs, which is what led her to an affair in the first place. Not much seems to have changed.


----------



## The-Deceived

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Do you even need to ask?
> 
> Your reconciliation is doomed if she hasn't the perspective or empathy to truly understand what she did to you and your family. All she is capable of understanding and feeling are her own needs, which is what led her to an affair in the first place. Not much seems to have changed.


**** around.

She's headed off to work. A flurry of texts shall ensue. I may share them here.


----------



## walkonmars

She's fearful you will leave. That's why she keeps wanting you to be romantic. She feels the more you are romantic and show her romance the more you will let the memories fade. Perhaps it's also a way for her to erase the memories of the affair and recommit to you. 

Your "in" stay in for as long as you can. It's gotta suck. But what's the alternative?


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

walkonmars said:


> She's fearful you will leave. That's why she keeps wanting you to be romantic. She feels the more you are romantic and show her romance the more you will let the memories fade. Perhaps it's also a way for her to erase the memories of the affair and recommit to you.
> 
> Your "in" stay in for as long as you can. It's gotta suck. But what's the alternative?


Good point, didn't think of that, but even if that is so, isn't that just a further example of her only understanding being HER needs.

"he might leave ME, and I don't want that, so I have to emotionally manipulate him to ensure I get what I want and need"

If she's worried he'll leave, why doesn't she just try to do more for him? Tell him he's The Man every 30 seconds if need be. Be there for him. Help repair him.

How on Earth is threatening him going to help in a million years?


----------



## Acabado

The-Deceived said:


> Unreal. We're 2 months from dday - 2 months and 4 days since she left me. She's put off and emotional that I'm not being "romantic" enough, that she needs to be "treated like a princess" and for me to "gush all over her". Texting me from the bathroom that she's in tears. SHe's been super gushy/romantic/loving/sweet with me. But I can't reciprocate that this ****ing instant. She apologizes for being so needy but she is!
> 2 ****ing months since this went down. Back together for 1. And I'm expected to be a hopeless romantic.
> We've been hysterical bonding, and she said she thought sex and romance go hand in hand. Maybe. But now? I'm still bleeding for f*ck sake.


I understand, man. I get it.
Now, remember for her it's not two months, she already demanded this same thing way before she got involved in the affair. Back then you rejected it because she was being jelous and acusing you of being distant and cheating on her If i recall. BAsically she's being the old herself as you claims she's genuinely insecure, needy... When you rejected her she gave up on the marriage and let OM in.
Tricky situation.


----------



## The-Deceived

walkonmars said:


> She's fearful you will leave. That's why she keeps wanting you to be romantic. She feels the more you are romantic and show her romance the more you will let the memories fade. Perhaps it's also a way for her to erase the memories of the affair and recommit to you.
> 
> Your "in" stay in for as long as you can. It's gotta suck. But what's the alternative?


Nailed it.


----------



## The-Deceived

She just texted me: "I'm going to earn romance".


----------



## walkonmars

Sooo, she still working nights? Gotta fix that. 

and what do you make of the text? 'earn romance' how?


----------



## The-Deceived

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Good point, didn't think of that, but even if that is so, isn't that just a further example of her only understanding being HER needs.
> 
> "he might leave ME, and I don't want that, so I have to emotionally manipulate him to ensure I get what I want and need"
> 
> If she's worried he'll leave, why doesn't she just try to do more for him? Tell him he's The Man every 30 seconds if need be. Be there for him. Help repair him.
> 
> How on Earth is threatening him going to help in a million years?


Gotta say bro - she tells me I'm the man in every way possible ALL DAY LONG. I've never felt so adored, admired and worshipped. She says that all the time too: "I worship you". She is trying so hard. But she's a broken woman.


----------



## The-Deceived

She's apologizing for her neediness...


----------



## The-Deceived

Acabado said:


> I understand, man. I get it.
> Now, remember for her it's not two months, she already demanded this same thing way before she got involved in the affair. Back then you rejected it because she was being jelous and acusing you of being distant and cheating on her If i recall. BAsically she's being the old herself as you claims she's genuinely insecure, needy... When you rejected her she gave up on the marriage and let OM in.
> Tricky situation.


This is an accurate assessment. Thanks for the food for thought.


----------



## walkonmars

The-Deceived said:


> She is trying so hard. But she's a broken woman.


Of that there is no doubt. But she knows it (don't you think?) and she is working hard on you by your own admission.

She can do more - finding another job tops that list.

Given that having an affair was bad - one of the things that destroys marriages and accepting that it happened. The reality of the present is that she WANTS the marriage to work. And in terms of how 'bad it could be' it isn't that bad. (I cringe at writing that but it's a fact).

You're putting a lot of effort into this. On behalf of your children, I commend you. They don't know how much their daddy loves them. But it can't just be about them either. 

You have to get something out of this too. Keep up the effort and let the the dark periods play themselves out.


----------



## The-Deceived

walkonmars said:


> Sooo, she still working nights? Gotta fix that.
> 
> and what do you make of the text? 'earn romance' how?


Yes - this is crucial.

I think she means by doing all the work a WW needs to do to for me to heal.


----------



## The-Deceived

walkonmars said:


> Of that there is no doubt. But she knows it (don't you think?) and she is working hard on you by your own admission.
> 
> She can do more - finding another job tops that list.
> 
> Given that having an affair was bad - one of the things that destroys marriages and accepting that it happened. The reality of the present is that she WANTS the marriage to work. And in terms of how 'bad it could be' it isn't that bad. (I cringe at writing that but it's a fact).
> 
> You're putting a lot of effort into this. On behalf of your children, I commend you. They don't know how much their daddy loves them. But it can't just be about them either.
> 
> You have to get something out of this too. Keep up the effort and let the the dark periods play themselves out.


Thank you, insightful.

She is beside herself with guilt and remorse. She sat up and cried all night - trying to understand how she let herself do this. She's having a hard time being in her own skin. She can't wait to go to IC on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to it too. 

Man, this is a real test of inner strength. 

On a positive note, the posom moved 500 miles away.


----------



## walkonmars

The-Deceived said:


> Man, this is a real test of inner strength.


You got it in you to try man. And you're holding up - it's a good sign that you recognize her pain. Yeah, she brought it on herself - every bit of it. But what's done is done, and at least she's aware of the destruction she's done. 



The-Deceived said:


> On a positive note, the posom moved 500 miles away.


The farther that nimrod goes the better. Hope the law falls on him hard. He had coke 'n crud right?

How are the kids holding out?


----------



## The-Deceived

walkonmars said:


> You got it in you to try man. And you're holding up - it's a good sign that you recognize her pain. Yeah, she brought it on herself - every bit of it. But what's done is done, and at least she's aware of the destruction she's done.
> 
> 
> The farther that nimrod goes the better. Hope the law falls on him hard. He had coke 'n crud right?
> 
> How are the kids holding out?


She sure is.

She just brought ME flowers. 

Yup - he's a thug coke dealer. Complete loser. 

The kids are great - happy we're together.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Wish you could just beat him into a pulp and throw him off a cliff or something. It would make the world have one less piece of sh!t in it.


----------



## The-Deceived

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Wish you could just beat him into a pulp and throw him off a cliff or something. It would make the world have one less piece of sh!t in it.


:iagree:


----------



## The-Deceived

Well, we are 6 weeks into R. We both read "Surviving an Affair" (she finished it well before me). We have been spending a huge amount of time together, talking, loving. She expresses her remorse and guilt almost daily and thanks me for "rescuing her". She has been doing a lot of heavy lifting.

She is so different - back to her happy self. She's struggling with being happy because she feels guilty about it - doesn't think she deserves to be happy. I keep telling her it's OK.

She's doing IC and gets a lot out of it. She told me that back when she was seeing this therapist (3 or 4 years ago), she told her about her fears of my cheating and the accusations. Apparently the therapist told her "you know, you are going to drive him to sleep with someone else". Sure enough she did (after SHE slept with someone else). 

She's quit her job and found another one 5 minutes from home. She accounts for all her time and makes sure to ask me if anything is happening out of our routine.

POSOM has moved far far away.

The pain of the infidelity is not as razor sharp as before - it's slooooowly fading. I made the decision to try and forgive and be happy. We are doing very well and she showers me with love, affection and compliments. 

I am slowly starting to show her the affection she always wanted, and taking care of her "most important emotional needs". We still are having sex every night, and it's incredible. 

She's very anxious to put it behind us and start our "new marriage", but she understands that I'm not yet where she is - this is still fresh for me.

One thing she reminded me of that made it a little easier for me to forgive is that when she asked me for those 3 things months back (more affection, occasional flowers and help around the house), not only did I say no, I told her to leave and go to her mom's house (2 hours away) at night in the rain. I was quite brutal. She said that's when the shift happened and she gave up on the marriage. I had blocked out my terrible treatment of her.

I asked her why she didn't leave me BEFORE she cheated - she admitted she was afraid I'd kick her out and take the kids. No excuse, but she was honest about it.

She tells me every day she will spend the rest of her life making this up to me, how proud she is of me and she can't believe how strong, loving and kind I am for giving her another shot. 

So, things look good and I am optimistic. I am still and always will be ready to leave instantly if she betrays me again. She keeps saying she'll die before she hurts me again, and that if I walk out tomorrow, she'd be devastated but would understand.

Anyway, I'm cautiously optimistic, and I see how messed up our marriage was. I truly believe we will be better and stronger. In many ways we already are.
Just wanted to give you folks an update.

Hope everyone is well (or well as possible, for BS's.).


----------



## 3putt

The-Deceived said:


> Well, we are 6 weeks into R. We both read "Surviving an Affair" (she finished it well before me). We have been spending a huge amount of time together, talking, loving. She expresses her remorse and guilt almost daily and thanks me for "rescuing her". She has been doing a lot of heavy lifting.
> 
> She is so different - back to her happy self. She's struggling with being happy because she feels guilty about it - doesn't think she deserves to be happy. I keep telling her it's OK.
> 
> She's doing IC and gets a lot out of it. She told me that back when she was seeing this therapist (3 or 4 years ago), she told her about her fears of my cheating and the accusations. Apparently the therapist told her "you know, you are going to drive him to sleep with someone else". Sure enough she did (after SHE slept with someone else).
> 
> She's quit her job and found another one 5 minutes from home. She accounts for all her time and makes sure to ask me if anything is happening out of our routine.
> 
> POSOM has moved far far away.
> 
> The pain of the infidelity is not as razor sharp as before - it's slooooowly fading. I made the decision to try and forgive and be happy. We are doing very well and she showers me with love, affection and compliments.
> 
> I am slowly starting to show her the affection she always wanted, and taking care of her "most important emotional needs". We still are having sex every night, and it's incredible.
> 
> She's very anxious to put it behind us and start our "new marriage", but she understands that I'm not yet where she is - this is still fresh for me.
> 
> One thing she reminded me of that made it a little easier for me to forgive is that when she asked me for those 3 things months back (more affection, occasional flowers and help around the house), not only did I say no, I told her to leave and go to her mom's house (2 hours away) at night in the rain. I was quite brutal. She said that's when the shift happened and she gave up on the marriage. I had blocked out my terrible treatment of her.
> 
> I asked her why she didn't leave me BEFORE she cheated - she admitted she was afraid I'd kick her out and take the kids. No excuse, but she was honest about it.
> 
> She tells me every day she will spend the rest of her life making this up to me, how proud she is of me and she can't believe how strong, loving and kind I am for giving her another shot.
> 
> So, things look good and I am optimistic. I am still and always will be ready to leave instantly if she betrays me again. She keeps saying she'll die before she hurts me again, and that if I walk out tomorrow, she'd be devastated but would understand.
> 
> Anyway, I'm cautiously optimistic, and I see how messed up our marriage was. I truly believe we will be better and stronger. In many ways we already are.
> Just wanted to give you folks an update.
> 
> Hope everyone is well (or well as possible, for BS's.).


Now _this_ is what a truly remorseful WW should sound like.

:smthumbup:


----------



## The-Deceived

3putt said:


> Now _this_ is what a truly remorseful WW should sound like.
> 
> :smthumbup:


----------



## bfree

What a great update. Things appear to be going well. I pray they continue to.


----------



## walkonmars

Gotta give you both credit. Hope all remains well and continues to improve.


----------



## The-Deceived

Thanks friends!


----------



## Acabado

Great, great update! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> Thank you, insightful.
> 
> She is beside herself with guilt and remorse. She sat up and cried all night - trying to understand how she let herself do this. She's having a hard time being in her own skin. She can't wait to go to IC on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to it too.
> 
> Man, this is a real test of inner strength.
> 
> On a positive note, the posom moved 500 miles away.


Get her and yourself tested for HIV and Hepatitus every three months for the next two years. Only then, at the end, are you in the clear. 

That will also be a nice regular reminder to her how she skanked out for a brief moment of her life. 

Forgive her...but don't let her forget.

And 500 miles is nothing for a pig riding a hog...a days ride. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

Well this was probably a mistake. In searching for answers, I downloaded all of our texts to each other since May or so. Watching the entire thing unfold was surreal. 

Last night she admitted that she often got off work early (like midnight) and would be out with posom. She always told me she closed, that's why she would get home at 4:30 am. One giant source of tension between us was that she was always exhausted - sleep deprived, and this turned her into a *****. I always let her sleep in as late as she wanted (all day on the weekends) and I took care of the kids. She would always bark "don't expect me to be all peachy on no sleep!". Now I find out her exhaustion was brought on by lies, deceit and whoring around. 

I also realized all the times she said she had too many drinks after work and was staying at her girlfriend's - that she was out w*oring around with posom.

I also saw how loving I was (and her to me) in these texts...and it was all bull**** on her part. 

She begged me not to read the transcripts as she knew it would make me angry - but I was compelled.

Now she sensed something is wrong.

I LOATHE this.


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Get her and yourself tested for HIV and Hepatitus every three months for the next two years. Only then, at the end, are you in the clear.
> 
> That will also be a nice regular reminder to her how she skanked out for a brief moment of her life.
> 
> Forgive her...but don't let her forget.
> 
> And 500 miles is nothing for a pig riding a hog...a days ride.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes - what a wonderful reminder. And scary as hell.


----------



## The-Deceived

Very insightful, thanks 2asdf2.

Edit - whoa, your post disappeared....


----------



## 2asdf2

The-Deceived said:


> Very insightful, thanks 2asdf2.
> 
> Edit - whoa, your post disappeared....


I was reframing it to show your quote.

Here it is again:



The-Deceived said:


> Well this was probably a mistake. In searching for answers, I downloaded all of our texts to each other since May or so. Watching the entire thing unfold was surreal.
> 
> Last night she admitted that she often got off work early (like midnight) and would be out with posom. She always told me she closed, that's why she would get home at 4:30 am. One giant source of tension between us was that she was always exhausted - sleep deprived, and this turned her into a *****. I always let her sleep in as late as she wanted (all day on the weekends) and I took care of the kids. She would always bark "don't expect me to be all peachy on no sleep!". Now I find out her exhaustion was brought on by lies, deceit and whoring around.
> 
> I also realized all the times she said she had too many drinks after work and was staying at her girlfriend's - that she was out w*oring around with posom.
> 
> I also saw how loving I was (and her to me) in these texts...and it was all bull**** on her part.
> 
> She begged me not to read the transcripts as she knew it would make me angry - but I was compelled.
> 
> Now she sensed something is wrong.
> 
> I LOATHE this.


Building a timeline is painful, but it is needed to understand the depth of the deceit.

As you process it, it progressively sinks in. Then the increasing doubts and increasing anger.

Keep reading till you get it all out, and then try to put it to rest. It will take a while, but you can do it. We all can, in time.


----------



## The-Deceived

2asdf2 said:


> I was reframing it to show your quote.
> 
> Here it is again:
> 
> Building a timeline is painful, but it is needed to understand the depth of the deceit.
> 
> As you process it, it progressively sinks in. Then the increasing doubts and increasing anger.
> 
> Keep reading till you get it all out, and then try to put it to rest. It will take a while, but you can do it. We all can, in time.


Cool, thanks!


----------



## Hope1964

2asdf2 said:


> Building a timeline is painful, but it is needed to understand the depth of the deceit.
> 
> As you process it, it progressively sinks in. Then the increasing doubts and increasing anger.
> 
> Keep reading till you get it all out, and then try to put it to rest. It will take a while, but you can do it. We all can, in time.


:iagree: excellent advice here. Hang in there.


----------



## Shaggy

I suggest you give them all to her to read. Every last one of them,

Know how they've hit you? Well if your marriage actually has a chance they will hit her hard too and hopeful permanently shake faithfulness into her.


----------



## jim123

So much for control. Actually have her read them to you and explain the emotions. 

There may be much more truth to find out. Tell her you want all of it now. The timeline and everything else. All the truth now so you can decide.


----------



## The-Deceived

Shaggy said:


> I suggest you give them all to her to read. Every last one of them,
> 
> Know how they've hit you? Well if your marriage actually has a chance they will hit her hard too and hopeful permanently shake faithfulness into her.


I suggested that - she said it's too dark a place and too scary to revisit right now. I was in severe emotional pain last night. I questioned her on more stuff, which she answered. She's being totally open. 

I said I couldn't do it last night. I was going to leave - too much pain. She talked me into staying the course. Again, I can't ask anything more from her - she's doing everything she should.

The love she's showing me is overwhelming. And I do love being with her.

Gotta give it more time. I was obsessing yesterday - not good. But there are still things I need to wrap my head around. She told me not to look for answers, because there are none - it doesn't make any sense and she doesn't understand it either. She's just super remorseful. 

Sitting there last night, being so torn, not having answers, the internal struggle...man alive is it intense and difficult. The struggle within.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> She told me not to look for answers, because there are none - it doesn't make any sense and she doesn't understand it either.


Well, my take is that she'd better start trying to figure it out. How can she avoid doing it again if she doesn't know why it happened in the first place??

She also doesn't get to avoid the pain. You don't - why should she??


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Well, my take is that she'd better start trying to figure it out. How can she avoid doing it again if she doesn't know why it happened in the first place??
> 
> She also doesn't get to avoid the pain. You don't - why should she??


Agreed. Her story goes like this:

December 2011 her child molesting father contacts her on her birthday after no contact for 30 years. This flips her upside down - she was a mess. I contact him and tell him to cease all contact or I'll **** him up. She is appreciative but torn on how to feel. Right after finding this out, her mom ends up in hospital, paralysed and all f*cked up - they think it's a stoke. It wasn't, but whatever it was, it was caused by the stress of the dad situation and her overwhelming guilt.

WW was devastated by this and started to derail. Total meltdown.

She continually asks me to call her during the day as she feels she's not important to me. I don't.

A couple months later she sits me down and tells me she's hurting and needs the 3 things from me (call her once a day, flowers occasionally and domestic support). I tell her no, she has all of me, I'm not doing those things. I tell her if she's not happy, then leave. I tell her to leave the house and go to her mom's (2 hours away - it was night and raining) until we figure out the logistics of separating. I was cruel. She begged me to stay and I eventually relented. 

She's knocked down by my reaction - she said it was really difficult to ask me those things and she did not expect my reaction - she's devastated. However she continues to hold out hope that I'll start doing those things. I don't and she sinks deeper into depression, believing I don't care about her. I have this great career and she's nothing. She got lonelier and sadder and more depressed.

In comes her junior high crush...a guy she pined over (get this - she carved his initials into her leg as a teen - the scar is still there). He comes in every night and starts stalking his prey. In rolls the fog. Makes her feel "special" and "wanted". She feels appreciated and feels he's a "peer". She's feeling like a lowly waitress, he's a thug biker. They're both f*cked up people who develop an emotional connection. He persists, she relents. She ends up getting off early from work and going out boozing and doing blow with this imbecile. Drugs, alcohol, infidelity.

She has a 6 month affair, breaks it off, then 1 month later leaves me because of the guilt. She said the guilt and secrecy was eating her alive. 

For those 6 months she not only betrayed me, but blew off her friends and family. Everyone saw it. Not me so much ,because we almost never saw each other. I walk in from work, she walks out to go to work. I asked her how she pulled off the lying, she said there wasn't much she needed to do as we never saw each other, so it wasn't that hard.

She says looking back she felt she was sh*t, and this is obvious by the fact that she ended up with such a bottom feeder. She said she didn't think I loved or cared for her and figured the marriage was over anyway. When I asked her why didn't she tell me or come clean, she said she was afraid I would kick her out and take the kids. I most certainly would have. So some cake eating there no doubt.

She said she was on a continually downward spiral and was going to keep going that way. Things changed for her when she found out I was with someone else and I comforted her. She said she felt safe and believed that I really did love her after I showed her that kindness - but she didn't want to get back together because she knew I couldn't forgive her. I said I could.

Maybe I spoke to soon. We'll see.

But since we've been back together, our relationship has been pretty amazing (save for my episodes of doubt and reluctance). I see amazing potential for us to be great - and I truly believe she would never do this again. And this time I would listen and would see her falling off the rails. 

She's a damaged person and she knows it. Hopefully she can get herself together.


----------



## warlock07

The-Deceived said:


> Well this was probably a mistake. In searching for answers, I downloaded all of our texts to each other since May or so. Watching the entire thing unfold was surreal.
> 
> Last night she admitted that she often got off work early (like midnight) and would be out with posom. She always told me she closed, that's why she would get home at 4:30 am. One giant source of tension between us was that she was always exhausted - sleep deprived, and this turned her into a *****. I always let her sleep in as late as she wanted (all day on the weekends) and I took care of the kids. She would always bark "don't expect me to be all peachy on no sleep!". Now I find out her exhaustion was brought on by lies, deceit and whoring around.
> 
> I also realized all the times she said she had too many drinks after work and was staying at her girlfriend's - that she was out w*oring around with posom.
> 
> I also saw how loving I was (and her to me) in these texts...and it was all bull**** on her part.
> 
> She begged me not to read the transcripts as she knew it would make me angry - but I was compelled.
> 
> Now she sensed something is wrong.
> 
> I LOATHE this.


do it even if it is a setback. You need to know the person you are reconciling and baring your heart to after she stabbed you once. If it changes your decision to reconcile, so be it.


----------



## The-Deceived

warlock07 said:


> do it even if it is a setback. You need to know the person you are reconciling and baring your heart to after she stabbed you once. If it changes your decision to reconcile, so be it.


Indeed.


----------



## sandc

The-Deceived said:


> She told me not to look for answers, because there are none - it doesn't make any sense and she doesn't understand it either.


Uh... no. There are answers. She better start looking for them because as Hope pointed out, if she doesn't know why she did it, she won't know why she's doing it again.


----------



## 2asdf2

The-Deceived said:


> -----------Snip for brevity------------
> 
> She continually asks me to call her during the day as she feels she's not important to me. I don't.
> 
> A couple months later she sits me down and tells me she's hurting and needs the 3 things from me (call her once a day, flowers occasionally and domestic support). I tell her no, she has all of me, I'm not doing those things. I tell her if she's not happy, then leave. I tell her to leave the house and go to her mom's (2 hours away - it was night and raining) until we figure out the logistics of separating. I was cruel. She begged me to stay and I eventually relented.
> 
> She's knocked down by my reaction - she said it was really difficult to ask me those things and she did not expect my reaction - she's devastated. However she continues to hold out hope that I'll start doing those things. I don't and she sinks deeper into depression, believing I don't care about her. I have this great career and she's nothing. She got lonelier and sadder and more depressed.
> 
> -----------Snip for brevity------------
> 
> She said she didn't think I loved or cared for her and figured the marriage was over anyway. When I asked her why didn't she tell me or come clean, she said she was afraid I would kick her out and take the kids. I most certainly would have.
> 
> -----------Snip for brevity------------


I find all the above as sufficient explanation for what you are going through.

She should have had the strength to move on then. She chose to stay, now you are both in a precarious situation.


----------



## Acabado

> Originally Posted by The-Deceived View Post
> She told me not to look for answers, because there are none - it doesn't make any sense and she doesn't understand it either.





The-Deceived said:


> Agreed. Her story goes like this:
> December 2011 her child molesting father contacts her on her birthday after no contact for 30 years. This flips her upside down - she was a mess. I contact him and tell him to cease all contact or I'll **** him up. She is appreciative but torn on how to feel. Right after finding this out, her mom ends up in hospital, paralysed and all f*cked up - they think it's a stoke. It wasn't, but whatever it was, it was caused by the stress of the dad situation and her overwhelming guilt.
> WW was devastated by this and started to derail. Total meltdown.
> She continually asks me to call her during the day as she feels she's not important to me. I don't.
> A couple months later she sits me down and tells me she's hurting and needs the 3 things from me (call her once a day, flowers occasionally and domestic support). I tell her no, she has all of me, I'm not doing those things. I tell her if she's not happy, then leave. I tell her to leave the house and go to her mom's (2 hours away - it was night and raining) until we figure out the logistics of separating. I was cruel. She begged me to stay and I eventually relented.
> She's knocked down by my reaction - she said it was really difficult to ask me those things and she did not expect my reaction - she's devastated. However she continues to hold out hope that I'll start doing those things. I don't and she sinks deeper into depression, believing I don't care about her. I have this great career and she's nothing. She got lonelier and sadder and more depressed.
> In comes her junior high crush...a guy she pined over (get this - she carved his initials into her leg as a teen - the scar is still there). He comes in every night and starts stalking his prey. In rolls the fog. Makes her feel "special" and "wanted". She feels appreciated and feels he's a "peer". She's feeling like a lowly waitress, he's a thug biker. They're both f*cked up people who develop an emotional connection. He persists, she relents. She ends up getting off early from work and going out boozing and doing blow with this imbecile. Drugs, alcohol, infidelity.
> She has a 6 month affair, breaks it off, then 1 month later leaves me because of the guilt. She said the guilt and secrecy was eating her alive.
> For those 6 months she not only betrayed me, but blew off her friends and family. Everyone saw it. Not me so much ,because we almost never saw each other. I walk in from work, she walks out to go to work. I asked her how she pulled off the lying, she said there wasn't much she needed to do as we never saw each other, so it wasn't that hard.
> She says looking back she felt she was sh*t, and this is obvious by the fact that she ended up with such a bottom feeder. She said she didn't think I loved or cared for her and figured the marriage was over anyway. When I asked her why didn't she tell me or come clean, she said she was afraid I would kick her out and take the kids. I most certainly would have. So some cake eating there no doubt.
> She said she was on a continually downward spiral and was going to keep going that way. Things changed for her when she found out I was with someone else and I comforted her. She said she felt safe and believed that I really did love her after I showed her that kindness - but she didn't want to get back together because she knew I couldn't forgive her. I said I could.
> Maybe I spoke to soon. We'll see.
> But since we've been back together, our relationship has been pretty amazing (save for my episodes of doubt and reluctance). I see amazing potential for us to be great - and I truly believe she would never do this again. And this time I would listen and would see her falling off the rails.
> She's a damaged person and she knows it. Hopefully she can get herself together.


Of course she need to dig for answers, mostly becuase she can't afford to go toward that path again for her own sake. Ever. She needs better coping tools.
This said I honestly believe you mostly have the answers, your timeline is self explanatory. What happens is you understand it at an intellectual level, it will take time an actively search for empathy and forgiveness to Understand it (capital U), accept it, at an emotional level. Her train of thoughts, her emotional state, the excuses she gave herself are there in the quote above.
She cracked under pressure. There's also a clear picture of "perfect storm" here, and your own behavior is a pieze of the puzzle)


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

I cannot fathom how horrible you have felt and how hard you have been hit.

How sure can any faithful husband be that there was only one OM?
You cannot be sure because cheaters are liars and they will save face and dignity all under false pretenses of fear and to keep you hurting you or lower their view of themselves upon you.

How sure can you be that you will stay with her and keep working on reconciliation and be a spy for the rest of your life?
You cannot be sure.

Reconciliation is a difficult road. She only realized the value in you after she lost you. She thought you were ignoring her emotionally because she was constantly getting FLAK from other dogs at work who do not know boundaries as much as she didn't either.

Forgiving is a daily process. If you have to forgive her every day to be able to keep moving forward then she needs to ask for forgiveness everyday until the love between you both is fully mended where saying "forgive me" is not needed because "forgiveness" is already known to have been given without needing to ask. True love.

Keep working hard and I hope you keep your instincts on high for a while to come. You definitely are no fool.


----------



## The-Deceived

2asdf2 said:


> I find all the above as sufficient explanation for what you are going through.
> 
> She should have had the strength to move on then. She chose to stay, now you are both in a precarious situation.


Absolutely - shoulda woulda coulda. Sadly, she didn't.


----------



## The-Deceived

Acabado said:


> Of course she need to dig for answers, mostly becuase she can't afford to go toward that path again for her own sake. Ever. She needs better coping tools.
> This said I honestly believe you mostly have the answers, your timeline is self explanatory. What happens is you understand it at an intellectual level, it will take time an actively search for empathy and forgiveness to Understand it (capital U), accept it, at an emotional level. Her train of thoughts, her emotional state, the excuses she gave herself are there in the quote above.
> She cracked under pressure. There's also a clear picture of "perfect storm" here, and your own behavior is a pieze of the puzzle)


True - for her own sake. She knows ANY further betrayal, on ANY level, will see her ass kicked to the curb. Although I do love her, I am and will be forever in a headspace where I can turn off from her emotionally, turn off my love in an instant, just like I did on dday. She knows I will be happy and move on without her, and that my prospects are very good. I've never had a hard time attracting the ladies, I have an amazing career and a musical gift. I also happen to be a good man. She sees all of this and tells me daily. I am willing (today anyway  ) to give R a real shot, and I think it could be really good. But the ties that bind us are tattered and frail, and I will cut them at a moments notice.

Perfect storm indeed - and yes, I played a role in creating that weather.


----------



## The-Deceived

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> I cannot fathom how horrible you have felt and how hard you have been hit.
> 
> How sure can any faithful husband be that there was only one OM?
> You cannot be sure because cheaters are liars and they will save face and dignity all under false pretenses of fear and to keep you hurting you or lower their view of themselves upon you.
> 
> How sure can you be that you will stay with her and keep working on reconciliation and be a spy for the rest of your life?
> You cannot be sure.
> 
> Reconciliation is a difficult road. She only realized the value in you after she lost you. She thought you were ignoring her emotionally because she was constantly getting FLAK from other dogs at work who do not know boundaries as much as she didn't either.
> 
> Forgiving is a daily process. If you have to forgive her every day to be able to keep moving forward then she needs to ask for forgiveness everyday until the love between you both is fully mended where saying "forgive me" is not needed because "forgiveness" is already known to have been given without needing to ask. True love.
> 
> Keep working hard and I hope you keep your instincts on high for a while to come. You definitely are no fool.


Thank you, yes, it's been agonizing. Like I said before, it would be much easier emotionally for me not to be with her. But is easier best? Don't know. 

I'm inclined to believe her about it being just one imbecile, as she confessed this after she had left and had no reason to lie at that point. She swore "on our babies". I'm sure cheaters have said that before and were totally lying though. But I believe her.

Being a spy for the rest of my life - I will be diligent and vigilant - to a point. If I'm weighed down by trust issues for any length of time - I won't make it. 

Sadly, I'm in a "give me a f*cking reason" headspace. I don't reckon that'll change. We'll see if that's sustainable.


----------



## 2asdf2

The-Deceived said:


> True - for her own sake. She knows ANY further betrayal, on ANY level, will see her ass kicked to the curb. Although I do love her, I am and will be forever in a headspace where I can turn off from her emotionally, turn off my love in an instant, just like I did on dday. She knows I will be happy and move on without her, and that my prospects are very good. I've never had a hard time attracting the ladies, I have an amazing career and a musical gift. I also happen to be a good man. She sees all of this and tells me daily. I am willing (today anyway  ) to give R a real shot, and I think it could be really good. But the ties that bind us are tattered and frail, and I will cut them at a moments notice.
> 
> Perfect storm indeed - and yes, I played a role in creating that weather.


According to your timeline, you were very cold and unempathetic. She tried to get you to change, and you responded with great dismissiveness, telling her to leave. She even told you about her modest needs, and you neglected them and her.

I must tell you that I think your behavior at the time was appalling.
I am having to remind myself that you were cheated, to conjure up any sympathy for you.

Added to that, you yourself cheated also.

Perhaps your ass-kicking attitude should be humbled down a notch or two.


----------



## The-Deceived

2asdf2 said:


> According to your timeline, you were very cold and unempathetic. She tried to get you to change, and you responded with great dismissiveness, telling her to leave. She even told you about her modest needs, and you neglected them and her.
> 
> I must tell you that I think your behavior at the time was appalling.
> I am having to remind myself that you were cheated, to conjure up any sympathy for you.
> 
> Added to that, you yourself cheated also.
> 
> Perhaps your ass-kicking attitude should be humbled down a notch or two.


Fair enough. Although I'm not sure I agree that I"cheated". But you're correct on the rest.


----------



## Hope1964

You do know all this crap is 'normal' for a BS to go thru right?

I know that doesn't help, but just reminding you of it 

You will get past the stage of NEEDING to know. You will eventually get to a point where you can let things go and move past them. 

On a slightly related note, here's two threads about how I faced down my worst trigger  Keep in mind this is happening 2 1/2 years out for us though.

Me deciding to do it
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57256-bad-idea.html#post1107865

Me deciding WHAT to do
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/57548-ok-guys-your-wife-surprised-you.html#post1116255

The result (same thread but cut to the chase)
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/57548-ok-guys-your-wife-surprised-you-6.html#post1168352


----------



## The-Deceived

A little context on my behaviour when my wife asked me for those things, so 2asdf2 doesn't think I'm a monster...

I had put up with years (15 of them) of her accusing me of cheating and not loving her, and I was angry and resentful. I never came close to cheating but constantly had to beg her to believe me I was faithful. That began to wear on me and I felt justified at the time.

That doesn't actually justify my harshness towards her...just like my harshness towards her doesn't justify her cheating, but there was, what I thought to be, a reason for my anger.

That being said - my coldness and dismissiveness proved to have deadly consequences, and I own that.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> You do know all this crap is 'normal' for a BS to go thru right?
> 
> I know that doesn't help, but just reminding you of it
> 
> You will get past the stage of NEEDING to know. You will eventually get to a point where you can let things go and move past them.
> 
> On a slightly related note, here's two threads about how I faced down my worst trigger  Keep in mind this is happening 2 1/2 years out for us though.
> 
> Me deciding to do it
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57256-bad-idea.html#post1107865
> 
> Me deciding WHAT to do
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/57548-ok-guys-your-wife-surprised-you.html#post1116255
> 
> The result (same thread but cut to the chase)
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/57548-ok-guys-your-wife-surprised-you-6.html#post1168352


Thanks for this, I'll check the threads out.


----------



## tom67

Deceived you are early in r jmo but I think your wife is one of the few here that is showing true remorse. Nobody said it will be easy. Go find a babysitter friday or saturday for some alone time. 15 hrs of alone time no tv every week.


----------



## The-Deceived

tom67 said:


> Deceived you are early in r jmo but I think your wife is one of the few here that is showing true remorse. Nobody said it will be easy. Go find a babysitter friday or saturday for some alone time. 15 hrs of alone time no tv every week.


Thanks Tom - been doing that (Dr Harley I presume?)! I've been getting up with her when she gets home from work and we just talk. Then boink. 

We are going out Valentines day and on Saturday she's coming to see me play. Working on avoiding love busters, meeting each others most important emotional needs (I bought her flowers last night) and quality alone time. No TV.


----------



## terrence4159

hang in there TD my xw cheated on me over 9 years ago and if i sit down and think of the betrayal to this day i get mad. im remarried great loving W but betrayal wont go away but in time will be easier to deal with. all i can say take it one day at a time.

i will say i believe your wife is sorry/remoresful/guilty all the above and yes you were far from perfect but did nothing to warrent cheating. for your sake i want to believe the R will work but im a strong believer once a cheater always a cheater.


----------



## tom67

The-Deceived said:


> Thanks Tom - been doing that (Dr Harley I presume?)! I've been getting up with her when she gets home from work and we just talk. Then boink.
> 
> We are going out Valentines day and on Saturday she's coming to see me play. Working on avoiding love busters, meeting each others most important emotional needs (I bought her flowers last night) and quality alone time. No TV.


I may miss some of the hockey game tonight alsogf is coming by.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> True - for her own sake. She knows ANY further betrayal, on ANY level, will see her ass kicked to the curb. Although I do love her, I am and will be forever in a headspace where I can turn off from her emotionally, turn off my love in an instant, just like I did on dday. She knows I will be happy and move on without her, and that my prospects are very good. I've never had a hard time attracting the ladies, I have an amazing career and a musical gift. I also happen to be a good man. She sees all of this and tells me daily. I am willing (today anyway  ) to give R a real shot, and I think it could be really good. But the ties that bind us are tattered and frail, and I will cut them at a moments notice.
> 
> Perfect storm indeed - and yes, I played a role in creating that weather.


Heres the rub....

You are still in the shock / damage control stage....

You haven't fallen into the anger stage yet. She needs to know its coming. Prepare her for it, because when it hits its going to hit hard.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Heres the rub....
> 
> You are still in the shock / damage control stage....
> 
> You haven't fallen into the anger stage yet. She needs to know its coming. Prepare her for it, because when it hits its going to hit hard.


Ask Cantthinkstraight about that one. His stbxw was phony as a 3 dollar bill though so he had reason to be angry.


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Heres the rub....
> 
> You are still in the shock / damage control stage....
> 
> You haven't fallen into the anger stage yet. She needs to know its coming. Prepare her for it, because when it hits its going to hit hard.


I hope you're wrong. But I can see it happening...


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> I hope you're wrong. But I can see it happening...


Brother, there is going to be venom and vitriol exploding out of your mouth against her the likes of which you cannot comprehend...

Ever seen the movie *28 Days Later *about the fast- moving, red-eyed banshee zombies?

That'll give you some idea of what you may turn into...



I'm not joking....


----------



## Hope1964

He's not joking. Although I turned into the b!tch right away; I only spent about 6 hours in the shock stage.

The stages are the same as grief. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance in that order.


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Brother, there is going to be venom and vitriol exploding out of your mouth against her the likes of which you cannot comprehend...
> 
> Ever seen the movie *28 Days Later *about the fast- moving, red-eyed banshee zombies?
> 
> That'll give you some idea of what you may turn into...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not joking....


I've had several of those already. A few were yelling outbursts, but mostly they were evil eyed, viciously worded tirades of disgust and abhorrence. Very hurtful and intended to inflict emotional pain and guilt. I'm sure I'll have more. But I'm trying to avoid angry outbursts.

I had an episode last night, but I was conscious not to explode in anger - more controlled, honest expression of disgust, disbelief, anger and pain. 

I won't pretend to know what's coming next, as I've learned I have no idea what emotions I will have from one day to the next.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> I've had several of those already. A few were yelling outbursts, but mostly they were evil eyed, viciously worded tirades of disgust and abhorrence. Very hurtful and intended to inflict emotional pain and guilt. I'm sure I'll have more. But I'm trying to avoid angry outbursts.
> 
> I had an episode last night, but I was conscious not to explode in anger - more controlled, honest expression of disgust, disbelief, anger and pain.
> 
> I won't pretend to know what's coming next, as I've learned I have no idea what emotions I will have from one day to the next.


Those were the appetizers...

Are you getting any counseling? Are you taking any medications to help you deal with the stress?


----------



## Quantmflux

For people that think they can *truly* never get past the betrayal, Im not sure I feel there is any point to even attempting to R. 

I dont mean that as a judgement at all. There is no rule that says you *must* forgive and move on. If you *want* to and think you *can*, then you work hard.

But I dont think its fair if the actual motivation for hanging around and trying is just beating the hell out of the WS no matter how guilty they are. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that. If the BS isnt going to be able to get past it, it is better to sever it so both parties can pick up the pieces of their lives and move on.

Sometimes I think that the best thing to do, rather than start some loooong, process and "step filled", attempt at a reconciliation is to take a step back, do some IC if necessary, and some deep soul searching, and decide *on your own* (as the BS) if you *really can* ever get past it. And do NOT be afraid of recognizing that no, you cant. There is NOTHING wrong with that! And it may be far healthier.

To the OP, I'm not at all suggesting that I have an opinion of where you ultimately fall (in the "cant forgive" or in the "can forgive" camp), but I think it is in your own best interest to think on that.

I personally dont think its a good idea to dive deep into every detail of the betrayal. That will *always* cause things to fester and at a certain point, additional details arent going to give you any new answers.

Where you are now you know the situation you are dealing with quite well. It is time to take serious stock of your own sensibilities and decide if you are better starting new. ESPECIALLY since you have kids. Staying in a hostile and dysfunctional situation for years on end and passively aggressively waging war is the worst possible environment for a kid (I lived that one)

There are no easy universal answers in these situations and no one size fits all. Lots of people give well meaning advice, but it is always from their own personal experience and point of bias but stated in a way that applies it is broadly general and "fact". It may be that what you hear and read applies to you, but there is just as much chance it doesn't.

Only *you* know what you can live with and what you can't and honestly, only *you* can accurately gauge what your wife is likely to become and/or do down the road.

You need to visualize 5 years on, best case scenario (where wife has gone through enough IC to be as adjusted as she can) and imagine if you can be the loving, affectionate, active listening husband that she always wanted and can be happy and fulfilled yourself given all that has happened.

If the answer is "yeah, thats a REAL longshot" then I think you need to seriously consider what your next move should be.


----------



## Hope1964

Quantmflux said:


> If the answer is "yeah, thats a REAL longshot" then I think you need to seriously consider what your next move should be.


But the answer to this question is going to change over time. The answer for me was HELL no for about 3 months. He had to convince me and plead with me to R.


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Those were the appetizers...
> 
> Are you getting any counseling? Are you taking any medications to help you deal with the stress?


I've been on Zoloft for generalized anxiety for years. It's no doubt been keeping me from completely losing my ****.

I have some free counselling thru work and have been to IC once - a dude. It didn't do a whole lot, as I'm not even sure what I'm looking for from it.

She's knows I'm angry and hurt. Sometimes it gets the better of me. If I wasn't taking the vitamin Z, I would be in full on rage and anxiety all the time.


----------



## The-Deceived

Quantmflux said:


> For people that think they can *truly* never get past the betrayal, Im not sure I feel there is any point to even attempting to R.
> 
> I dont mean that as a judgement at all. There is no rule that says you *must* forgive and move on. If you *want* to and think you *can*, then you work hard.
> 
> But I dont think its fair if the actual motivation for hanging around and trying is just beating the hell out of the WS no matter how guilty they are. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that. If the BS isnt going to be able to get past it, it is better to sever it so both parties can pick up the pieces of their lives and move on.
> 
> Sometimes I think that the best thing to do, rather than start some loooong, process and "step filled", attempt at a reconciliation is to take a step back, do some IC if necessary, and some deep soul searching, and decide *on your own* (as the BS) if you *really can* ever get past it. And do NOT be afraid of recognizing that no, you cant. There is NOTHING wrong with that! And it may be far healthier.
> 
> To the OP, I'm not at all suggesting that I have an opinion of where you ultimately fall (in the "cant forgive" or in the "can forgive" camp), but I think it is in your own best interest to think on that.
> 
> I personally dont think its a good idea to dive deep into every detail of the betrayal. That will *always* cause things to fester and at a certain point, additional details arent going to give you any new answers.
> 
> Where you are now you know the situation you are dealing with quite well. It is time to take serious stock of your own sensibilities and decide if you are better starting new. ESPECIALLY since you have kids. Staying in a hostile and dysfunctional situation for years on end and passively aggressively waging war is the worst possible environment for a kid (I lived that one)
> 
> There are no easy universal answers in these situations and no one size fits all. Lots of people give well meaning advice, but it is always from their own personal experience and point of bias but stated in a way that applies it is broadly general and "fact". It may be that what you hear and read applies to you, but there is just as much chance it doesn't.
> 
> Only *you* know what you can live with and what you can't and honestly, only *you* can accurately gauge what your wife is likely to become and/or do down the road.
> 
> You need to visualize 5 years on, best case scenario (where wife has gone through enough IC to be as adjusted as she can) and imagine if you can be the loving, affectionate, active listening husband that she always wanted and can be happy and fulfilled yourself given all that has happened.
> 
> If the answer is "yeah, thats a REAL longshot" then I think you need to seriously consider what your next move should be.


I have been feeling at a little better by telling myself that it is still early days, and I am NOT trapped. If several months, or whatever, down the road, I am struggling still, I might have to end it. Today I think I can do this. Tomorrow, who knows?


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> But the answer to this question is going to change over time. The answer for me was HELL no for about 3 months. He had to convince me and plead with me to R.


I was sure I was walking out last night. She talked me into staying and trying. I'm not used to having such unpredictable emotions. Blargh!


----------



## bfree

The-Deceived said:


> I was sure I was walking out last night. She talked me into staying and trying. I'm not used to having such unpredictable emotions. Blargh!


Accept that its going to be that way for a while. And from someone who divorced and did not R let me tell you that it doesn't matter if you're with her or not. You'll go through the same stages regardless of whether you D or R. Its sucks but it just is.


----------



## Acabado

You are doing just fine I believe.
And if you ask me she's doing so also.

Hang tough!


----------



## Shaggy

I am worried that she was doing blow and who knows whatever with him. That stuff isn't an easy to just stop thing.


----------



## Shaggy

And her turn around seems a bit to cut and dry


----------



## warlock07

She was accusing you of infidelity all through the marriage? 

Are you sure this was her only affair? You need to seriously verify this. Maybe polygraph..


----------



## jim123

You forgave too soon. You need to step back. You are not in control, she is. She messed around for six months then left you. The minute you start moving on, she comes back and gets control.

You need to get your head together. Fix yourself first then worry about everything else.


----------



## Jasel

Maybe some time a part might not be such a bad thing??


----------



## The-Deceived

Shaggy said:


> I am worried that she was doing blow and who knows whatever with him. That stuff isn't an easy to just stop thing.


Since we've been back together (xmas day) all of her time is accounted for. I could tell when she was all messed up. A totally different person. She's not doing blow now. But I'll keep my eyes wide open.


----------



## The-Deceived

Shaggy said:


> And her turn around seems a bit to cut and dry


What do you think that means?


----------



## The-Deceived

warlock07 said:


> She was accusing you of infidelity all through the marriage?
> 
> Are you sure this was her only affair? You need to seriously verify this. Maybe polygraph..


I've asked her over and over and she swears on our kids it was. Do I believe her? Not sure.

To be fair - I forgot to add something. Back in 2003, I think it was, she intercepted an email I sent to this woman who worked at a place who's website was promoting me as an artist. We flirted a bit, and the email she saw was singed off "licks and tickles" by me. I had forgotten about this. She told me that was when she started getting paranoid and snooping. I apologized again for that last night. At the time I didn't realize how inappropriate that was. She was always insecure from dad issues, and this made it much worse. That was really stupid of me.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> What do you think that means?


She's acting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

If she's acting she won't be able to keep it up indefinitely. The facade will crack at some point.

Just keep your eyes open. As they say, trust but verify.


----------



## The-Deceived

jim123 said:


> You forgave too soon. You need to step back. You are not in control, she is. She messed around for six months then left you. The minute you start moving on, she comes back and gets control.
> 
> You need to get your head together. Fix yourself first then worry about everything else.


I haven't forgiven yet...I don't even know what that means or how to do it. Or if I ever can...

Control...well, I don't know. I feel somewhat safe knowing that I can walk away. So far she's convinced me to keep trying. That's what I'm doing...trying to work at R. But I haven't said "I forgive you" or promised that I'll stay...I keep saying "one day at a time". So the control I feel I have is over myself - in that I can disengage if I feel I need to. I have that option. I'm not trapped. If I can't do it and have to end it, the kids will be OK. I will be OK. But I want to try R. And I know she does.

But my trust is NOT restored and I have not forgiven. It's a process, and obviously it's going to be a long one. It's day to day. **** that, hour to hour.


----------



## JMGrey

The-Deceived said:


> I've asked her over and over and she swears on our kids it was...


This means she absolutely did but she believes that telling the truth would put you past your breaking point and bury the marriage for good. When the cheater actually has the balls to associate their children in their heinous behavior, you can pretty much take to the bank that whatever they told you in relation to the promise is an absolute lie.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> If she's acting she won't be able to keep it up indefinitely. The facade will crack at some point.
> 
> Just keep your eyes open. As they say, trust but verify.


I don't believe she is. But I will verify. I don't see why she would be acting. What for?


----------



## The-Deceived

JMGrey said:


> This means she absolutely did but she believes that telling the truth would put you past your breaking point and bury the marriage for good. When the cheater actually has the balls to associate their children in their heinous behavior, you can pretty much take to the bank that whatever they told you in relation to the promise is an absolute lie.


Good grief. So I should ask her to take a poly?

When I asked her if there was another guy, it was 3 days after she left. She openly admitted it. I grilled the hell out of her saying "there were more. Who else?". AT that point we were thru, neither of us had any intention of R. She kept saying "why would I lie now? It was just him". She told me about the blow, where they did it, how many times. I said I know it's over, I just need closure - please tell me the truth. She maintained it was just him.

She had nothing to lose at that point - so why would she lie?


----------



## Hope1964

OK hang on a minute. Verifying is one thing, but I don't think a poly is what you need right now. If red flags start to pop up again then maybe, but see how things go for now. She's doing most everything right. Let her keep doing that.

You do have every right to tell her that if there's anything else she needs to tell you, now's the time, because if you find out in a month or a year you're gone.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> OK hang on a minute. Verifying is one thing, but I don't think a poly is what you need right now. If red flags start to pop up again then maybe, but see how things go for now. She's doing most everything right. Let her keep doing that.
> 
> You do have every right to tell her that if there's anything else she needs to tell you, now's the time, because if you find out in a month or a year you're gone.


I agree.


----------



## Onmyway

The-Deceived said:


> Good grief. So I should ask her to take a poly?
> 
> When I asked her if there was another guy, it was 3 days after she left. She openly admitted it. I grilled the hell out of her saying "there were more. Who else?". AT that point we were thru, neither of us had any intention of R. She kept saying "why would I lie now? It was just him". She told me about the blow, where they did it, how many times. I said I know it's over, I just need closure - please tell me the truth. She maintained it was just him.
> 
> She had nothing to lose at that point - so why would she lie?


My stbxw said the same thing, it was just the one guy. I eventually found some texts to another guy, talking about giving him a blowjob and such, she insisted that nothing else happened, only texting. When I asked why she didn't tell me about him right away she said that she didn't want to make it harder on me, that I was going through enough already. Too late, I know in my heart that there was more with the second guy, just the fact that she hid the texts from me tells me this. 

My point here is that she thought that I would get over her first affair and stay with her, so she had no reason to tell me about the second, and I believe that she won't admit to the second guy still because that will destroy our current situation.

Verify verify verify. Just because she admitted to one does not mean that she will admit to another, particularly if that guy is still around in any way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> I said I know it's over, I just need closure - please tell me the truth. She maintained it was just him.
> 
> She had nothing to lose at that point - so why would she lie?


Because that's what cheaters do. They lie.

How many stories do we have in this section of BS who had their WS swear on the kids, or the bible, or their parents' graves etc that "That's the whole truth, I swear" only to find out later that there is a hell of a lot more because they wanted to "spare the BS anymore pain" which is really just code for not wanting to give them anymore reasons to leave and covering their own ass? Especially since your wife already knows you're on the brink of leaving as it is.

A lot of the times cheaters will only admit to what the BS can prove or what they think the BS will probably find out eventually anyway. Anything else they'll do their best to take to the grave.

I'm not saying this is the case with your wife or what she's doing or has done, but you can't believe what she tells you just because the words are coming out of her mouth.


----------



## Hope1964

Jasel said:


> you can't believe what she tells you just because the words are coming out of her mouth.


:iagree: This is why you verify.

Her entire life needs to be an open book right now.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> :iagree: This is why you verify.
> 
> Her entire life needs to be an open book right now.


How do you verify?


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> How do you verify?


Honestly it sounds like you have that covered for the present moment. You keep track of her whereabouts and she's been offering full transparency from what you say. As for any possible betrayals in the past you'll probably just have to trust that she's telling the truth. Easier said than done I know.


----------



## Hope1964

Two ways. First is, you ask to see her phone at random times, or her computer history. She isn't allowed to delete history. You ask her where she is or where she's going - keep tabs on her. And tell her you expect her to tell you about any communication with OM whatsoever. These are things she knows about.

You also snoop. You should have passwords for all her emails, her phone, bank accounts, credit cards, everything. Since you're in Canada you probably can't get access to her cell records - you can't see what numbers she texts or stuff like that. But you can snoop on her phone when she's asleep or whatever. This is stuff she doesn't know about, although if she gave you the passwords she will know you COULD be snooping. You can also keylog her computer if you need to, and/or put spyware on her phone. These could be with or without her knowledge.

I still log onto my husbands work email every once in a while when I feel the need.


----------



## bfree

TD,

You haven't yet forgiven, you haven't yet said you are definitely on the path toward R, you haven't said anything other than I'll give it another day.

When you feel like you are on the path toward R then I would ask her to take a polygraph to set your mind at ease so you can concentrate on truly trying to rebuild your relationship. At that point tell her if there is anything she needs to tell you that is the time. If you aren't sure you are going to stay with her then there is no need to probe further into the past. But if you at some point think you want to stay with her you absolutely need to know exactly what you are forgiving her for.


----------



## The-Deceived

Thanks guys. I actually have access to who she texts/texts her (just the numbers, not the content). I've been watching.

Had an interesting talk with her. I again said now's the time to come totally clean, that I felt there was something missing. Mentioned that fears of cheating are often a sign the fearful one is cheating, and I thought there was more than the one posom. She said "you remember the only time I wasn't accusing or worried about you cheating was when I was". That's totally true. For six months she didn't mention it once - and that was a first.


----------



## The-Deceived

From her:

I pray you can learn to trust me. I would have told you while we were apart, what did I have to lose? Nothing!! I had lost all I had or was. No keeping anything from you, then or now. It's weird to live so truthfully, but refreshing. Thank you

You didn't deserve what I did.... I'll never forgive myself for hurting you that way... It's real heavy on my heart.

______________________

I'm so sorry Aaron. You could find a nice girl and have a chance at a better new life, not have to be with a person like me. You real sure you want me? This life with me? This pain to get over?


----------



## Hope1964

Good for her.

Just a warning - you will have these doubts for years. About her having told all. They will become few and far between, but they will surface every once in a while. For years.

I have to take breaks from TAM sometimes because it gets to be too much - the stories of people who R for years and suddenly find out it was all a lie. Or I will be driving and something on the radio will trigger me. Thankfully hubby knows what he needs to do now, but we went through a period after the first year or so when he thought I should be done with it and over it and not triggering any more. We worked through it. 

It didn't help that he kept his encounter with the hooker a secret for 5 months when we started R.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Good for her.
> 
> Just a warning - you will have these doubts for years. About her having told all. They will become few and far between, but they will surface every once in a while. For years.
> 
> I have to take breaks from TAM sometimes because it gets to be too much - the stories of people who R for years and suddenly find out it was all a lie. Or I will be driving and something on the radio will trigger me. Thankfully hubby knows what he needs to do now, but we went through a period after the first year or so when he thought I should be done with it and over it and not triggering any more. We worked through it.
> 
> It didn't help that he kept his encounter with the hooker a secret for 5 months when we started R.


Thanks Hope. Yes - although people here mean well, you do have to be cautious about what you read. It's a fine line...and some people are just evil - I see the pain we all go thru. Some WS's are just evil. Others are people who made a terrible mistake. Some are in the middle.

That had to be a terrible blow for you during your R...so sorry to hear that.


----------



## The-Deceived

She is so insecure...she feels how tenuous this all is. I do too, as although I feel we are attempting a genuine R, I do have one foot out the door at all times. 

She is trying so hard. She still apologizes every day, cries and begs me not to leave her. "Please don't hurt me like I hurt you". She doesn't want to go out in public at all (she used to be super social) because she can't bare to face people. Her guilt and shame is overwhelming.

It also caused a huge fallout with HER family. My family has been forgiving because I'm trying to be. Her sister won't talk to her. She apologized to all her friends and most of them have forgiven her - but the consequences have been severe. Her sister and her have NEVER had conflict. Her sis is the softest, most gentle person I know, and she is PISSED.

WW alienated and deceived not just me, but everyone in her life.

She's been talking about suicide. 

She keeps pleading with me to stay, but doesn't want to make me miserable. She just wants me to be happy. She could not be more remorseful, but that doesn't change what she did.

I'm still in limbo, I guess. And I still have no control over what I feel from one minute to the next.

We decided to take a trip together - we've never done that. We are going to Sandals in Cuba. My mom and pa called up the other day and said "we are going to treat you to this vacation". Wow. So kind.

She is such a damaged person. 

I was snooping thru her Facebook messages and found a thread that actually made me feel a little better:

"For the rest of my life I'm going to prove to Aaron that what I did was because I thought he didn't love me, not that I ever stopped loving him."


----------



## Hope1964

Is she in IC??


----------



## sandc

I'm glad to hear her family didn't just blindly take her side. Not enough families make their members face consequences for bad behavior. Good for them.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Is she in IC??


She is - only been once so far. I'll send her again. This woman does help her.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> She is - only been once so far. I'll send her again. This woman does help her.


Why are you 'sending' her?? She should be going herself - she should WANT to go. She should be falling over herself to get herself in there as often as possible.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Why are you 'sending' her?? She should be going herself - she should WANT to go. She should be falling over herself to get herself in there as often as possible.


I just mean because I pay for it (did I mention during her meltdown she racked up $45K in credit card and line of credit debt - and she had to file for bankruptcy? :smthumbup: )

She wants to go. This therapist just moved away - she does Skype sessions.


----------



## The-Deceived

Good Lord did she ever sh*t the bed of life. Unreal.


----------



## The-Deceived

sandc said:


> I'm glad to hear her family didn't just blindly take her side. Not enough families make their members face consequences for bad behavior. Good for them.


Yes, I was surprised by this.


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> She is - only been once so far. I'll send her again. This woman does help her.


Ya please make sure she keeps that up. Some anti-depressants might not be such a bad thing if she's not already on some.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> I just mean because I pay for it (did I mention during her meltdown she racked up $45K in credit card and line of credit debt - and she had to file for bankruptcy? :smthumbup: )
> 
> She wants to go. This therapist just moved away - she does Skype sessions.


OK then.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

It sounds like she's remorseful.

It took 2 months for my xww to tell me she was sorry for breaking NC with the OM after 8 months.

Still no explanation, or plan of action based on that sorry(ness) though... 
more like, sorry I did that, I can't fix it and don't want to try.

At least yours is trying... good luck to you!


----------



## The-Deceived

cantthinkstraight said:


> It sounds like she's remorseful.
> 
> It took 2 months for my xww to tell me she was sorry for breaking NC with the OM after 8 months.
> 
> Still no explanation, or plan of action based on that sorry(ness) though...
> more like, sorry I did that, I can't fix it and don't want to try.
> 
> At least yours is trying... good luck to you!


I know she is. It's suffocating her. The guilt, regret and remorse. I'm pretty worried about her, actually.


----------



## walkonmars

Jasel said:


> Ya please make sure she keeps that up. Some anti-depressants might not be such a bad thing if she's not already on some.


:iagree:

Time to visit the doctor. Often, talk of suicide is a ploy but I think she is seriously depressed. Depressed people can't see clearly or act rationally. Whether you decide to D or R you would be wise to take this issue to heart.

Just one more thing on your plate you didn't need or ask for, but there it is. Sorry man.


----------



## The-Deceived

She's right back where she was with the insecurity and low self esteem. I actually feel more like the WS as opposed to the BS - in terms of the work I'm having to do to keep her from losing it. I resent that, and I don't have the capacity right now to do the heavy lifting for her. 

She keeps saying she knows and I know I'd be better off without her, and I won't get past this. 

I think about the length of the affair (at least 6 months) and the deception. Being tired and sleeping all day because she was "working late" when if fact she had other people take her shift and she went out and did blow and f*cked a hells angel in the bathroom and his truck. She potentially exposed me to STD's, over and over. I would race home every night after work, never go out, so I could get home so she wouldn't fear I was cheating. For YEARS. Meanwhile, she's cheating. Taking off work, racking up $45K in debt, sleeping all day while I take care of the kids, and constantly justifying her ***** behaviour by saying she's so tired from work.

How can I ever get past that? I can't...and I realize now, I am only trying R for the kids - if they weren't in the picture I'd be gone.

Oh boy. I don't think I want to do this...


----------



## The-Deceived

She keeps saying she'll die if I leave...so really I'm only staying for the kids and so she doesn't do something stupid. That's not the right reason to stay, is it?


----------



## Lifescript

R for the kids alone won't work. If you don't want her anymore, understandably so ... leave her.


----------



## 3putt

The-Deceived said:


> Good Lord did she ever sh*t the bed of life. Unreal.


Gonna have to remember this one.

Perfectly put.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> She keeps saying she'll die if I leave...so really I'm only staying for the kids and so she doesn't do something stupid. That's not the right reason to stay, is it?


No, it isn't. And by doing this to you, she's manipulating you. I really do not think she is doing what she needs to here.

You are not responsible for her. You are NOT. You are responsible for the kids and yourself. NOT her.

Can you drop her off at a hospital and tell them she's suicidal? It sounds to me like you would benefit from her being gone right now. If she was doing what was right, she'd check herself in to somewhere - call AADAC.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> No, it isn't. And by doing this to you, she's manipulating you. I really do not think she is doing what she needs to here.
> 
> You are not responsible for her. You are NOT. You are responsible for the kids and yourself. NOT her.
> 
> Can you drop her off at a hospital and tell them she's suicidal? It sounds to me like you would benefit from her being gone right now. If she was doing what was right, she'd check herself in to somewhere - call AADAC.


She absolutely is manipulating me, and this is and always has been all about her.

I think regardless, you are correct. I need to be away from her right now, to really think about what's best for me. I have not been doing that, at all. I have not once done anything during R for myself. I've only thought about her and my kids. Now she's holding me hostage emotionally.

This is awful.


----------



## Hope1964

Yes it is awful. I know 

Why don't you tell her to leave? Tell her to go get herself some help somewhere?


----------



## The-Deceived

I'm going to end it. I'm going to meet with my parents today to figure out how and what the best course of action is. I talked to my mom, and she says she can see it's going to tear me down, and how unhealthy we are.

I am not doing what's in my best interest. I know that now.


----------



## Hope1964

I am so sorry


----------



## sandc

The-Deceived said:


> I'm going to end it. I'm going to meet with my parents today to figure out how and what the best course of action is. I talked to my mom, and she says she can see it's going to tear me down, and how unhealthy we are.
> 
> I am not doing what's in my best interest. I know that now.


Sorry it didn't work out for you. Sorry your wife is so broken. Even after you file you still have lots of time to change your mind but even if you don't at least the wheels are in motion. Maybe separate while the D is in process and see if you feel any better. See if it spurs her to do something about herself.


----------



## Shaggy

Your wife may have stopped cheating but she hasn't done anything to deal with the darkness in her that led to her cheating.

She needs serious therapy from a therapist she can sit down with face to face and work through things.

Before you leave try demanding she has a local therapist and she actually works at healing herself. It's not ok to transfer that burden onto you, her husband. You can't fix it for her, she needs to do the work. You can be there with her and supporting her, but it's her journey.

At the same time, she needs to put effort into being your wife and partner. To be open, honest, and transparent.

Be on guard for her slipping up and trying anther affair or drugs as a way to fix herself. They'll give her the temporary feel goods, but not deal with the issue.

If anything she should be trying to have an affair with you, to kick up the contact and personal one-one focus and attention.


----------



## The-Deceived

I am going to say we need to separate, that I need time on my own. But honestly, she is so broken, the betrayal is so deep...I can't fix her.
I'm fooling myself. The marriage was duct taped together before, me holding it together for the both of us because she is so damaged. Now I'm broken too. Two broken parents...it's not going to work.

Perhaps I won't seal the door shut, but I need to close it, at least for a while. But I just know it will fall back to what it was. If I don't take care of myself and my own needs, I'm going to crash, and that will be worse for my kids than having their parents split.

This is going to be hard. But it's hard right now. Unsustainable the way things are.


----------



## Hope1964

You should be with the kids, not her. And it isn't up to you to worry about where she has to stay. Why don't you just tell her she needs to leave?


----------



## Broken at 20

It is healthier for kids to come from a one-parent home that is filled with love, honesty, and intergrity, than a two parent home that is full of mistrust, deceipt, lies, cheating, and held together only by the glue of the kids. 

I wish you the best.


----------



## NatureDave

Wow!!! I just finished reading this entire thread and I'm flabergasted...

Twenty pages, and not one person has told you to get your head out of your arse yet!

If you are going to end things, then I don't have any advice for you. It's probably best for both of you.

If not, then you need to do a complete turnaround...and quickly. 

Look, you are one of the rare lucky ones. Most betrayed spouses battle on again/off again affairs, layers and layers of lying and secrecy. The typical wayward spouse is not remorseful and drag things out for months and months whiles sitting on the fence as they try to decide whether or not they want to "work on the marriage". It is usually the betrayed spouse that does all the heavy lifting of recovery, waiting for the fog to clear from the wayward.

Your managed to skip all of this agony and have a wife who is totally remorseful, has completely ended things, and will do ANYTHING to win your trust back.

And you keep bludgeoning her every waking minute with the "woe is me" and "how could you do this to me". No wonder she is a mess, you are beating her up every day. There is no reason whatsoever for your angry outburst, they will destroy her love for you quicker than anything else.

You have nearly every detail of her affair now, so put it to rest. Do not bring it up again. Direct your energy to looking forward and building positive steps, not looking back at the transgressions.


----------



## Broken at 20

NatureDave said:


> Wow!!! I just finished reading this entire thread and I'm flabergasted...
> 
> *Twenty pages, and not one person has told you to get your head out of your arse yet!*
> 
> If you are going to end things, then I don't have any advice for you. It's probably best for both of you.
> 
> If not, then you need to do a complete turnaround...and quickly.
> 
> Look, *you are one of the rare lucky ones*. Most betrayed spouses battle on again/off again affairs, layers and layers of lying and secrecy. *The typical wayward spouse is not remorseful and drag things out for months and months whiles sitting on the fence as they try to decide whether or not they want to "work on the marriage". It is usually the betrayed spouse that does all the heavy lifting of recovery, waiting for the fog to clear from the wayward.*
> Your managed to skip all of this agony and have a wife who is totally remorseful, has completely ended things, and will do ANYTHING to win your trust back.
> 
> *And you keep bludgeoning her every waking minute with the "woe is me" and "how could you do this to me". No wonder she is a mess, you are beating her up every day. There is no reason whatsoever for your angry outburst, they will destroy her love for you quicker than anything else.*
> 
> 
> *You have nearly every detail of her affair now, so put it to rest. Do not bring it up again. Direct your energy to looking forward and building positive steps, not looking back at the transgressions*.


There is so much I disagree with, I don't know where to begin.
Where is the dislike button?


----------



## TCSRedhead

NatureDave said:


> Wow!!! I just finished reading this entire thread and I'm flabergasted...
> 
> Twenty pages, and not one person has told you to get your head out of your arse yet!
> 
> *Get his head out of his arse? His wife had an affair with a drug using criminal. She used drugs. This isn't an offense that you just apologize, buy some flowers and move on!*
> 
> If you are going to end things, then I don't have any advice for you. It's probably best for both of you.
> 
> If not, then you need to do a complete turnaround...and quickly.
> 
> Look, you are one of the rare lucky ones. Most betrayed spouses battle on again/off again affairs, layers and layers of lying and secrecy. The typical wayward spouse is not remorseful and drag things out for months and months whiles sitting on the fence as they try to decide whether or not they want to "work on the marriage". It is usually the betrayed spouse that does all the heavy lifting of recovery, waiting for the fog to clear from the wayward.
> 
> *She's remorseful at this point because she's been caught. Even if she IS truly sorry, it shouldn't be all on HIS shoulders to do all the work to fix this. What planet are you from?*
> 
> Your managed to skip all of this agony and have a wife who is totally remorseful, has completely ended things, and will do ANYTHING to win your trust back.
> 
> And you keep bludgeoning her every waking minute with the "woe is me" and "how could you do this to me". No wonder she is a mess, you are beating her up every day. There is no reason whatsoever for your angry outburst, they will destroy her love for you quicker than anything else.
> 
> You have nearly every detail of her affair now, so put it to rest. Do not bring it up again. Direct your energy to looking forward and building positive steps, not looking back at the transgressions.


*He needs to bring it up until he feels that he can put it behind him. She needs to be able to allow him to do this. This isn't years ago, this is months ago (or less). *


----------



## JMGrey

The-Deceived said:


> She keeps saying she'll die if I leave...so really I'm only staying for the kids and so she doesn't do something stupid. That's not the right reason to stay, is it?


I know I'll get flamed and denounced for misogyny but I'll say it anyway: every woman that I have ever met, or heard of, has been an emotional terrorist. They are taught to do it at a young age. They learn to twist emotions to get what they want; to harp, cry and scream when they don't; to brush off any feelings of gratitude or appreciation of good fortune when they do get what they wanted because their expertly-cultivated sense of entitlement convinces them that it was their due.

Your wife wanted you and got you. Then your wife wasn't happy with your devotion to her in the marriage (evidenced by the fact that you were totally faithful) because she'd already gotten what she wanted, so she moved on to another guy because she felt that, as an old bauble, there was no way that she could lose you. That's what you are to her: a conquest, a meal-ticket, a totem of her belief and projected image as a wife and human being that is basically a good person, and an old, well-used toy that is nostalgic enough to keep around provided you keep quiet and are happy to receive her favor and attentions when _she_ feels content to do so.

The only affirmation that she wants from you is that you're going to toe the line. I've seen nothing in your posts to suggest to me that she is truly embracing reconciliation. The role of the WS in reconciliation is to rebuild trust with total transparency, and rebuild emotional stability by shutting the fvck up about themselves and being the patient and humble support that a BS needs. This whole thing is still about her; how you and others think of her, how _she'll_ be so bereft if you leave. I would almost offer you a money-back guarantee that any reconciliation will be broken in short order, once she feels comfortable enough to try, the only difference being that she'd learn from her mistakes and you'd be a long time in exposing.

You've allowed yourself to fall back into the tide of marital inertia. Before you full commit, you need to ask yourself if all, or even any, of your fears about your wife and your future together have been allayed. Good luck, mate.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

The-Deceived said:


> I am going to say we need to separate, that I need time on my own. But honestly, she is so broken, the betrayal is so deep...I can't fix her.
> I'm fooling myself. The marriage was duct taped together before, me holding it together for the both of us because she is so damaged. Now I'm broken too. Two broken parents...it's not going to work.
> 
> Perhaps I won't seal the door shut, but I need to close it, at least for a while. But I just know it will fall back to what it was. If I don't take care of myself and my own needs, I'm going to crash, and that will be worse for my kids than having their parents split.
> 
> This is going to be hard. But it's hard right now. Unsustainable the way things are.


Well described.

And I feel your pain, brother.
I was there 2 months ago myself.

Be strong.


----------



## warlock07

> Look, you are one of the rare lucky ones. Most betrayed spouses battle on again/off again affairs, layers and layers of lying and secrecy.


How lucky!!!
He should probably buy a lottery too.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

The-Deceived, your wife sounds manipulating with a priority to quasi rug sweep the affair while you both are hysterically bonding (since you slept with another woman too, her ego and fear of you leaving was affected).

More romance and sex as consequences to an affair? Some odd consequences. 

Cheaters minimize.

I'm all for R, but it seems that R requires the BS to lay the law down and WS to fulfill them. 

She had her cake and now she wants her security now that her cover has been blown. 

Like a spy caught, given protection in trade for minimal information. She's already cheated, why confess the "rest", if there is any. Probably to save face, dignity and to help you recover faster and get over this speed bump asap.

Keep working hard.


----------



## warlock07

The-Deceived, you are probably going through the infamous roller-coaster. You should probably end it if that is what is good for you but take some time to finalize the decision. Did you read Devastateddad's thread ? R is incredibly hard.


----------



## warlock07

The-Deceived said:


> She's right back where she was with the insecurity and low self esteem. I actually feel more like the WS as opposed to the BS - in terms of the work I'm having to do to keep her from losing it. I resent that, and I don't have the capacity right now to do the heavy lifting for her.
> 
> She keeps saying she knows and I know I'd be better off without her, and I won't get past this.
> 
> I think about the length of the affair (at least 6 months) and the deception. Being tired and sleeping all day because she was "working late" when if fact she had other people take her shift and she went out and did blow and f*cked a hells angel in the bathroom and his truck. She potentially exposed me to STD's, over and over. I would race home every night after work, never go out, so I could get home so she wouldn't fear I was cheating. For YEARS. Meanwhile, she's cheating. Taking off work, racking up $45K in debt, sleeping all day while I take care of the kids, and constantly justifying her ***** behaviour by saying she's so tired from work.
> 
> How can I ever get past that? I can't...and I realize now, I am only trying R for the kids - if they weren't in the picture I'd be gone.
> 
> Oh boy. I don't think I want to do this...



What the hell did she spend 45 K on?


----------



## bandit.45

I know that if I had a spouse who was systematically, on a weekly basis, taking off to go bang some nasty tattoo infested scumbag, I would have little desire to even look in her direction. 

I don't blame you for wanting to end it. Actually I'm rather surprised you considered R in the first place.


----------



## MattMatt

NatureDave said:


> Wow!!! I just finished reading this entire thread and I'm flabergasted...
> 
> Twenty pages, and not one person has told you to get your head out of your arse yet!
> 
> If you are going to end things, then I don't have any advice for you. It's probably best for both of you.
> 
> If not, then you need to do a complete turnaround...and quickly.
> 
> Look, you are one of the rare lucky ones. Most betrayed spouses battle on again/off again affairs, layers and layers of lying and secrecy. The typical wayward spouse is not remorseful and drag things out for months and months whiles sitting on the fence as they try to decide whether or not they want to "work on the marriage". It is usually the betrayed spouse that does all the heavy lifting of recovery, waiting for the fog to clear from the wayward.
> 
> Your managed to skip all of this agony and have a wife who is totally remorseful, has completely ended things, and will do ANYTHING to win your trust back.
> 
> And you keep bludgeoning her every waking minute with the "woe is me" and "how could you do this to me". No wonder she is a mess, you are beating her up every day. There is no reason whatsoever for your angry outburst, they will destroy her love for you quicker than anything else.
> 
> You have nearly every detail of her affair now, so put it to rest. Do not bring it up again. Direct your energy to looking forward and building positive steps, not looking back at the transgressions.


There are many reasons why he might consider reconciling with his wife. Your post didn't contain any of them.


----------



## HappyHubby

3putt said:


> Ask any lawyer in a fault state that question and see how many of them answer, "No, it's not cheating if you're separated".


This is Canada. Legally separated means LEGALLY separated. Its a distinct marital status that you can put on your tax return.


----------



## 3putt

HappyHubby said:


> This is Canada. Legally separated means LEGALLY separated. Its a distinct marital status that you can put on your tax return.


1) I didn't know he was Canadian. I could've easily missed it though.

2) I haven't seen him say he filed for legal separation where these laws may apply.

What's your point? I'm going to bed so I'll reply to your response later.

Perhaps TD will fill me in on what I must have missed. He has bigger fish to fry right now though....and I'm sorry for that.

Hang in there TD, This must be terribly overwhelming for you.


----------



## HappyHubby

3putt said:


> 1) I didn't know he was Canadian. I could've easily missed it though.
> 
> 2) I haven't seen him say he filed for legal separation where these laws may apply.
> 
> What's your point? I'm going to bed so I'll reply to your response later.
> 
> Perhaps TD will fill me in on what I must have missed. He has bigger fish to fry right now though....and I'm sorry for that.
> 
> Hang in there TD, This must be terribly overwhelming for you.


Oh no worries. Well I know in BC (I'm assuming its the same in Alberta), you are separated the moment one of you says so. Kinda seems messed up since a cheater could just say 'We're separated!', have sex with someone else and then reconcile and proclaim it wasn't cheating because 'we were separated'. 

Legally they would have been right but I don't think that would fly with the other spouse. My parents in-law went through a separation a few years ago and so we looked into it all. No dating occurred during separation but mom in-law did bring up the question a few times. 'is he seeing anyone? If he sleeps with someone I cant be with him anymore.' So, if he had, legally it would not have repercussions as far as I know but his wife sure would provide repercussions.

My wife's aunt actually cheated on her husband, left him when he found out and moved in with OM. This was 13 years ago. They are still living together, going strong and is part of the family now (they are one of the 3%) but he is not yet divorced from his wife!! She refused to free him up. I guess to prevent him from marrying wife's aunt and so that he would forever be living in sin.

Is Canada essentially no-fault divorce? I don't actually know. Anyone know? I get the feeling it is.

(sorry for the thread-jack)


----------



## Mike11

HappyHubby said:


> Oh no worries. Well I know in BC (I'm assuming its the same in Alberta), you are separated the moment one of you says so. Kinda seems messed up since a cheater could just say 'We're separated!', have sex with someone else and then reconcile and proclaim it wasn't cheating because 'we were separated'.
> 
> Legally they would have been right but I don't think that would fly with the other spouse. My parents in-law went through a separation a few years ago and so we looked into it all. No dating occurred during separation but mom in-law did bring up the question a few times. 'is he seeing anyone? If he sleeps with someone I cant be with him anymore.' So, if he had, legally it would not have repercussions as far as I know but his wife sure would provide repercussions.
> 
> My wife's aunt actually cheated on her husband, left him when he found out and moved in with OM. This was 13 years ago. They are still living together, going strong and is part of the family now (they are one of the 3%) but he is not yet divorced from his wife!! She refused to free him up. I guess to prevent him from marrying wife's aunt and so that he would forever be living in sin.
> 
> Is Canada essentially no-fault divorce? I don't actually know. Anyone know? I get the feeling it is.
> 
> (sorry for the thread-jack)


Indeed No Fault


----------



## The-Deceived

Well, that was interesting. She spent 3 or 4 hours begging and pleading for another chance. I kept saying no. She begged for more time...to go to therapy for her issues and to start exercising (she was way more stable when she was working out). She says she realizes her behaviour the past couple days was "back to crazy-town" and she is going to stop doing that to me. I said she has to, or I am gone. 

I'll give her a bit of time to get her emotions under control and for her to get back to heavy lifting. She was doing really good up until a couple days ago when her insecurities turned her crazy on.

We'll see what happens.

I'm so exhausted and overwhelmed. Any road I take is going to be a hard road. My kids are so scared of us splitting.


----------



## Hope1964

Your kids are scared because it's an unknown. They'll be FINE as long as the two of you make the transition as easy as possible for them.

When is your wife's next counseling appointment? that SHE made?


----------



## tom67

The-Deceived said:


> Well, that was interesting. She spent 3 or 4 hours begging and pleading for another chance. I kept saying no. She begged for more time...to go to therapy for her issues and to start exercising (she was way more stable when she was working out). She says she realizes her behaviour the past couple days was "back to crazy-town" and she is going to stop doing that to me. I said she has to, or I am gone.
> 
> I'll give her a bit of time to get her emotions under control and for her to get back to heavy lifting. She was doing really good up until a couple days ago when her insecurities turned her crazy on.
> 
> We'll see what happens.
> 
> I'm so exhausted and overwhelmed. Any road I take is going to be a hard road. My kids are so scared of us splitting.


Why don't you take the family this weekend to a motel with an indoor pool and they can unwind and have fun and you just relax and hit the hot tub.just sayin.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

She can change but the consideration of R will not change for you. 

She can do everything you say, everything you ask, and in the end her risk is that you may still say no after all is done and said.


----------



## The-Deceived

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> She can change but the consideration of R will not change for you.
> 
> She can do everything you say, everything you ask, and in the end her risk is that you may still say no after all is done and said.


Correct, my friend. I need to keep that in mind - and it is piece of mind. Thanks.


----------



## gbonham77

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> She can change but the consideration of R will not change for you.
> 
> She can do everything you say, everything you ask, and in the end her risk is that you may still say no after all is done and said.


yepp


----------



## warlock07

What do you mean by "turned her crazy on?"


----------



## The-Deceived

warlock07 said:


> What do you mean by "turned her crazy on?"


She gets all OCD and starts obsessing on things and barrage texts me at work. She gets irrational, emotional and panicky. Needs constant reassurance and emotional support. It's when she feels insecure. She's always been like that. She can't stop herself and say "OK, I'm being irrational a crazy here". Her mind just goes nuts and she can't stop. It's good times.


----------



## tom67

The-Deceived said:


> She gets all OCD and starts obsessing on things and barrage texts me at work. She gets irrational, emotional and panicky. Needs constant reassurance and emotional support. It's when she feels insecure. She's always been like that. She can't stop herself and say "OK, I'm being irrational a crazy here". Her mind just goes nuts and she can't stop. It's good times.


I am anti big pharma but she needs a psychiatrist to prescribe her something.


----------



## The-Deceived

tom67 said:


> I am anti big pharma but she needs a psychiatrist to prescribe her something.


She definitely has a mental illness of some sort.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> She gets all OCD and starts obsessing on things and barrage texts me at work. She gets irrational, emotional and panicky. Needs constant reassurance and emotional support. It's when she feels insecure. She's always been like that. She can't stop herself and say "OK, I'm being irrational a crazy here". Her mind just goes nuts and she can't stop. It's good times.


You think these antics may be why her OM dumped her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> She definitely has a mental illness of some sort.


Maybe. But don't let her lean on it. There are a lot of mentally ill married people who don't cheat on their spouses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> You think these antics may be why her OM dumped her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


According to her, she realized he was just using her, was a sociopath and she ended it in a big blow up at the bar she worked at. Who knows what really happened.

I don't know what she behaved like around that pos.


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Maybe. But don't let her lean on it. There are a lot of mentally ill married people who don't cheat on their spouses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's not - but regardless of the cheating, she's f*cked in the head and has been since I've known her.

Classic daddy-abandonment/sexual abuse issues.


----------



## tom67

Does she still drink? If she goes on anything she cannot drink and take psychotropic drugs. She should not be drinking anyway.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> According to her, she realized he was just using her, was a sociopath and she ended it in a big blow up at the bar she worked at. Who knows what really happened.
> 
> I don't know what she behaved like around that pos.


She behaved like a cheating married woman. That's how.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

tom67 said:


> I am anti big pharma but she needs a psychiatrist to prescribe her something.


I am as well. She's an addict.


OCD is common among addictions, withdrawals etc.

She needs to realize that her irrationality is caused by her inability to recognize herself as irrational. Seeking INSTANT gratification for her cheating, she seeks instant reconciliation with you. Not possible.

She needs to understand that you will always be changed by her infidelity. She needs to know that as long as you stay with her you need to heal past the hurt. Its probably easier to risk seeking a new relationship and start over without that feeling of betrayal.

She needs to practice becoming aware of her attitude as well as her decision in order to better herself as a person. That is the reason why she was unfaithful is because she did not think thoroughly the affects of her actions and her attitude towards her dedication to the marriage. Kinda confusing but if you get the gist.


----------



## Lovemytruck

It sounds like you are riding the rollercoaster.

I think some time off of the decision making might be good. Tom 67 might have it right.

Your D-day was fairly recent. I know I needed several months to process the whole thing. I still think about it frequently, and I have divorced, dated, re-married, and living a completely new life. Just saying that it is a big decision, and your feelings need to stabilize. 

It was exhausting when I was on the rollercoaster.

Cleanjerksnatch also had a very good point. You might realize that her actions will pacify you for a period of time. Then it becomes about what you want. Her actions will become meaningless.

The kid thing sucks. They also need time to work through the concept of D. It must seem like their lives are ending. I remember how I felt when my parents talked about divorce when I was a kid.

All in all, it will be a tough time. It sucks. If you do decide "for sure" to D, it will be something that you work on as you have the strength to do it. Rest a little now, and let yourself catch your breath. When you feel you need to do something, work out some of the details in your plan to move forward. Save a little money. Talk to the kids when you are with them in one-on-one situations. Talk to your family or friends that are trustworthy.

You will be ok in the end.


----------



## Lovemytruck

The-Deceived said:


> She definitely has a mental illness of some sort.


Sounds like a personality disorder. Check out borderline personality disorder on the web or in other posts.

I often wonder how many waywards have these things.


----------



## The-Deceived

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> I am as well. She's an addict.
> 
> 
> OCD is common among addictions, withdrawals etc.
> 
> She needs to realize that her irrationality is caused by her inability to recognize herself as irrational. Seeking INSTANT gratification for her cheating, she seeks instant reconciliation with you. Not possible.
> 
> She needs to understand that you will always be changed by her infidelity. She needs to know that as long as you stay with her you need to heal past the hurt. Its probably easier to risk seeking a new relationship and start over without that feeling of betrayal.
> 
> She needs to practice becoming aware of her attitude as well as her decision in order to better herself as a person. That is the reason why she was unfaithful is because she did not think thoroughly the affects of her actions and her attitude towards her dedication to the marriage. Kinda confusing but if you get the gist.


The gist is: she's all f*cked up. But yeah, I got ya.


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> It sounds like you are riding the rollercoaster.
> 
> I think some time off of the decision making might be good. Tom 67 might have it right.
> 
> Your D-day was fairly recent. I know I needed several months to process the whole thing. I still think about it frequently, and I have divorced, dated, re-married, and living a completely new life. Just saying that it is a big decision, and your feelings need to stabilize.
> 
> It was exhausting when I was on the rollercoaster.
> 
> Cleanjerksnatch also had a very good point. You might realize that her actions will pacify you for a period of time. Then it becomes about what you want. Her actions will become meaningless.
> 
> The kid thing sucks. They also need time to work through the concept of D. It must seem like their lives are ending. I remember how I felt when my parents talked about divorce when I was a kid.
> 
> All in all, it will be a tough time. It sucks. If you do decide "for sure" to D, it will be something that you work on as you have the strength to do it. Rest a little now, and let yourself catch your breath. When you feel you need to do something, work out some of the details in your plan to move forward. Save a little money. Talk to the kids when you are with them in one-on-one situations. Talk to your family or friends that are trustworthy.
> 
> You will be ok in the end.


I love this post. Thank you for reminding me I don't have to engrave any decision in stone right now. I can take my time - I'm in the driver's seat. However the vehicle is a rollercoaster and the steering, brakes and engine are all f*cked up.

I love the idea of resting. I feel so weird about her right now. So confused. And now that she's knows I genuinely was going to leave, it's even weirder. She's desperate. But right now it feels icky to me.

But again - thank you for telling me to slow down, rest and take my time. I have to be gentle on myself and realize I'm really not in any shape to make an informed, practical, smart choice. I'm not in control of my own head right now.


----------



## Lovemytruck

In two years you will be writing the same advice to some other BH that is going through hell. 

A couple of positives about a second marriage, if that is where you are in a few years.

1. You will be a better judge of character with your wisdom.

2. You will be a better husband knowing more about this relationship stuff.

3. Every other weekend is a nice break from kids.

4. A new woman will be GRATEFUL for a second chance with a guy that is honest and faithful. That means lots of good lovin'. 

Hang tough bro! You will be ok.


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> In two years you will be writing the same advice to some other BH that is going through hell.
> 
> A couple of positives about a second marriage, if that is where you are in a few years.
> 
> 1. You will be a better judge of character with your wisdom.
> 
> 2. You will be a better husband knowing more about this relationship stuff.
> 
> 3. Every other weekend is a nice break from kids.
> 
> 4. A new woman will be GRATEFUL for a second chance with a guy that is honest and faithful. That means lots of good lovin'.
> 
> Hang tough bro! You will be ok.


And hell it is, my friend. I was SO torn, conflicted and f*ed up last night. One day at a time, right?

I'm really happy you're happy.


----------



## warlock07

> According to her, she realized he was just *using *her, was a *sociopath *and she ended it in a big blow up at the bar she worked at. Who knows what really happened.



What does she mean by "using" her ? Suddenly he is a sociopath and she is the normal one ?It easier to look at women as victim in these situations. Happens more often with WW than WH IMO. 

He was probably cheating on her with a friend of hers(Reminds me of that scene from Unfaithful) and they fought about it. I would get the details about this if it is possible.(Not from her though...)


----------



## The-Deceived

warlock07 said:


> What does she mean by "using" her ? Suddenly he is a sociopath and she is the normal one ?It easier to look at women as victim in these situations. Happens more often with WW than WH IMO.
> 
> He was probably cheating on her with a friend of hers(Reminds me of that scene from Unfaithful) and they fought about it. I would get the details about this if it is possible.(Not from her though...)


She knows she's not normal - she referred to herself as "ill" today. She thought he loved her, then realized he didn't and that he's truly a pos. That being said, she was even more of a pos, as she was married with children. He's just a dirtbag imbecile - he did what he does. What she did was worse.

BTW I watched Unfaithful the other night (not sure why). It was BRUTAL to watch.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> I watched Unfaithful the other night (not sure why). It was BRUTAL to watch.


Do you have some need to torture yourself, kind of like ripping off a scab, or what?!?! Smarten up!!!!! Watch comedies or action movies or something.


----------



## Lovemytruck

The-Deceived said:


> And hell it is, my friend. I was SO torn, conflicted and f*ed up last night. One day at a time, right?
> 
> I'm really happy you're happy.


Yup! One day at a time.

I'm really sad you're so f*ed up. Probably the worst experience you will go through. Mine was.

Just don't take your eye off of the prize. You will be in a better place once you get through your hell.

Gotta go home now. Take care.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Do you have some need to torture yourself, kind of like ripping off a scab, or what?!?! Smarten up!!!!! Watch comedies or action movies or something.


It was highly masochistic.


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> Yup! One day at a time.
> 
> I'm really sad you're so f*ed up. Probably the worst experience you will go through. Mine was.
> 
> Just don't take your eye off of the prize. You will be in a better place once you get through your hell.
> 
> Gotta go home now. Take care.


Worst yet, by a LONG shot. And I was nearly beaten to death by 4 guys when I was a kid. Bed ridden for 2 months. That? A f*cking cakewalk compared to this. And I couldn't move for 3 weeks, and hence couldn't sh*t for 3 weeks.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> She knows she's not normal - she referred to herself as "ill" today. She thought he loved her, then realized he didn't and that he's truly a pos. That being said, she was even more of a pos, as she was married with children. He's just a dirtbag imbecile - he did what he does. What she did was worse.
> 
> BTW I watched Unfaithful the other night (not sure why). It was BRUTAL to watch.


Yeah at least the wife in Unfaithful had the werewithal to cheat with a good looking Frenchman. 

Your wife put out for a scuzzy drug dealing bottom dweller. 

Let that comparison sink in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah at least the wife in Unfaithful had the werewithal to cheat with a good looking Frenchman.
> 
> Your wife put out for a scuzzy drug dealing bottom dweller.
> 
> Let that comparison sink in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Grand, isn't it?


----------



## bandit.45

Here's a sh!t test for her. 

Tell her you're taking a bunch of money out to get about $10,000 in tattoos on your chest and back and arms. 

Tell her if tattooed bad boys are her thrill then you'll be happy to transform yourself into one. 

Oh and you'll be shaving your head too. 

Trade the car in for a hog while you're at it. 

Tell her you'll do these things to please her. 

See what she says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Here's a sh!t test for her.
> 
> Tell her you're taking a bunch of money out to get about $10,000 in tattoos on your chest and back and arms.
> 
> Tell her if tattooed bad boys are her thrill then you'll be happy to transform yourself into one.
> 
> Oh and you'll be shaving your head too.
> 
> Trade the car in for a hog while you're at it.
> 
> Tell her you'll do these things to please her.
> 
> See what she says.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sadly, she'd probably be down for it.


----------



## IsthisInsanity?

The-Deceived said:


> Worst yet, by a LONG shot. And I was nearly beaten to death by 4 guys when I was a kid. Bed ridden for 2 months. That? A f*cking cakewalk compared to this. And I couldn't move for 3 weeks, and hence couldn't sh*t for 3 weeks.


ouch .... that tells me how much u hurted by her behavior. Sometime it's the scars inside that hurt much more than physically. Sorry bro


----------



## The-Deceived

IsthisInsanity? said:


> ouch .... that tells me how much u hurted by her behavior. Sometime it's the scars inside that hurt much more than physically. Sorry bro


Thank you.


----------



## 3putt

The-Deceived said:


> BTW I watched Unfaithful the other night (not sure why). It was BRUTAL to watch.


It's been almost 10 years since my last betrayal and I still refuse to watch any movie that is laced with infidelity.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> Sadly, she'd probably be down for it.


Actually I'd be surprised if she didn't balk. WW's like to cheat with bad boys and play house with good guys like you. 

She'd probably freak if she actually thought you'd do it. 

Maybe I'm wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## IsthisInsanity?

Honestly i will never be in your shoes. It's really hard to break up if your wife is remorseful and kinda ill at the same time. I am not in your shoes and its hurting me to read your thread, even when I am never in a position like that. I don't know what to do. Sorry that i can't really help you. But I guess u will make the right decision.


----------



## Shaggy

Do you think she has possibly done some kind of drug last week and that was what set her off?


----------



## The-Deceived

Shaggy said:


> Do you think she has possibly done some kind of drug last week and that was what set her off?


No. I did a bit of TT'ing myself in terms of how many women I dated while we were separated. It came out there were more than I initially told her, and this freaked her out and got the wheels grinding.


----------



## The-Deceived

Would you guys say her case of infidelity is particularly bad? Like more heinous than most?

1. cheated for 6 months with a hells angel/coke dealer
2. f*cked him in bathrooms and his truck (he didn't have a home)
3. didn't use protection
4. racked up $45k in debt on God knows what
5. used working late as an excuse to be out late when she was actually giving up shifts to go out with posom
6. Sleeping all day and being a ***** on the pretence of being exhausted from working while I looked after the kids
7. left me on my daughter's 5th birthday via text
8. Didn't tell me about the affair until 5 days after she left - only because I asked her

I mean - does this not seem worse than the average affair?


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

The-Deceived said:


> Would you guys say her case of infidelity is particularly bad? Like more heinous than most?
> 
> 1. cheated for 6 months with a hells angel/coke dealer
> 2. f*cked him in bathrooms and his truck (he didn't have a home)
> 
> 3. didn't use protection
> 4. racked up $45k in debt on God knows what
> 5. used working late as an excuse to be out late when she was actually giving up shifts to go out with posom
> 6. Sleeping all day and being a ***** on the pretence of being exhausted from working while I looked after the kids
> 7. left me on my daughter's 5th birthday via text
> 8. Didn't tell me about the affair until 5 days after she left - only because I asked her
> 
> I mean - does this not seem worse than the average affair?


I think its pretty bad what she fell for.
Not that he's a hells angel biker but that he is a dirty one.
Sick how bad she degraded herself.

Man, I don't know. I was originally intending to say
Screwing around is screwing around.
Then I reat that post again.

You are a stronger man then me.
Anything I say further will not help yoir "R"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Average.

There are some really sick stories out there that just makes you hate people.


----------



## Shaggy

Unfortunately it's not worse than the average.

It's sort of par for the course.

I would suggest you dig into what the 45k was spent on. Pull the credit card records and sit down and go over it. Given the scumbag she wa s dating part of it might be fraud. Certainly you might be able to return or sell some of it.

Get the old monthly statements, maybe available online, and got through each transaction.


----------



## IsthisInsanity?

The-Deceived said:


> Would you guys say her case of infidelity is particularly bad? Like more heinous than most?
> 
> 1. cheated for 6 months with a hells angel/coke dealer
> 2. f*cked him in bathrooms and his truck (he didn't have a home)
> 3. didn't use protection
> 4. racked up $45k in debt on God knows what
> 5. used working late as an excuse to be out late when she was actually giving up shifts to go out with posom
> 6. Sleeping all day and being a ***** on the pretence of being exhausted from working while I looked after the kids
> 7. left me on my daughter's 5th birthday via text
> 8. Didn't tell me about the affair until 5 days after she left - only because I asked her
> 
> I mean - does this not seem worse than the average affair?


of course it does. Especially the daughters birthday part is really hard to deal with (this is crazy, beacuse it isn't only against u). Do u know if she is using drugs all the time she had an affair? I have seen couple of people how has extremly changend their behavior because of drug addiction.


----------



## 3putt

keko said:


> Average.
> 
> There are some really sick stories out there that just makes you hate people.


Sad, but true.


----------



## Numb-badger

keko said:


> Average.
> 
> There are some really sick stories out there that just makes you hate people.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

That 45k needs looking into though.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

What sucks is that she says she dumped him because she
Figured out he was using her.

That's the reason?!
I feel for you bro.

You have a full plate but at least u have a remorseful wife.
How u doin today?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## southernsurf

The-Deceived said:


> Would you guys say her case of infidelity is particularly bad? Like more heinous than most?
> 
> 1. cheated for 6 months with a hells angel/coke dealer
> 2. f*cked him in bathrooms and his truck (he didn't have a home)
> 3. didn't use protection
> 4. racked up $45k in debt on God knows what
> 5. used working late as an excuse to be out late when she was actually giving up shifts to go out with posom
> 6. Sleeping all day and being a ***** on the pretence of being exhausted from working while I looked after the kids
> 7. left me on my daughter's 5th birthday via text
> 8. Didn't tell me about the affair until 5 days after she left - only because I asked her
> 
> I mean - does this not seem worse than the average affair?


yea it’s a bad one - not your average hit and run affair for excitement


----------



## southernsurf

just started reading this, haven’t read all but my first reaction is this is could cocaine induced psychosis.


----------



## The-Deceived

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> How u doin today?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My love for her is dying a slow, painful death. So, not great.


----------



## The-Deceived

southernsurf said:


> just started reading this, haven’t read all but my first reaction is this is could cocaine induced psychosis.


It played a role - but she crafted her lies and deceit - going to work every night knowing that she was going to get off early and go f*ck the posom and do blow. It was calculated when she was sober. It's not like she was coked out 24/7 and in some kind of haze. She'd work, get off early, and then go at it.

Evil.


----------



## TRy

The-Deceived said:


> It played a role - but she crafted her lies and deceit - going to work every night knowing that she was going to get off early and go f*ck the posom and do blow. It was calculated when she was sober. It's not like she was coked out 24/7 and in some kind of haze. She'd work, get off early, and then go at it.


 Coke is used by some men to help them seduce women. Sex with someone new has the advantage of newness over same old same old with a husband of many years; this is a documented advantage. Sex while on coke is said to be particularly exhilarating. Your wife began to associate sex with the OM and coke as one. This was a powerfully addictive combination that would drive her even when she was sober. Not an excuse, just saying what happened.


----------



## southernsurf

I saw it happen to a friends W. Don’t have to be an in the gutter addict. They can be very functional, and get psychotic on small amount…….. distorted view of a temporary reality, then wondered what happened.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

Her choice of AP tells me she wanted to hurt herself.

I don't see how having such a lowlife AP could be thrilling.
I suppose the coke would help that, but still....

It just sounds to me like she was/is dealing with some serious
internal issues that obviously didn't get addressed in time.

I'm sure no matter how it went down, it wouldn't be comfortable to you.

Keep your chin up.


----------



## The-Deceived

cantthinkstraight said:


> Her choice of AP tells me she wanted to hurt herself.
> 
> I don't see how having such a lowlife AP could be thrilling.
> I suppose the coke would help that, but still....
> 
> It just sounds to me like she was/is dealing with some serious
> internal issues that obviously didn't get addressed in time.
> 
> I'm sure no matter how it went down, it wouldn't be comfortable to you.
> 
> Keep your chin up.


She said as much. Was feeling like the lowest of the low, so ended up with a bottom feeder. Self destructive. She has always had serious internal issues (low self esteem, abandonment issues, insecurity, low self worth, OCD).


----------



## Lovemytruck

Just re-read your summary of what she did. I remember thinking about how bad it was when you first posted.

I guess what I am trying to say is that this really isn't about a decision to restore a marriage, it is about the best way to divorce and move on.

Just my thoughts. I think you will never be able to be happily married knowing what has happened. *Obviously this is only my opinion.* I would start putting chunks of money in your new bank account, read about the divorce options, and get physically separated from her.

Whew!

Then as you stabilize, work on the divorce issues and figure out how to function.

Then when your heart is not pounding with adrenaline anymore, start flirting, looking at potential dating prospects, and re-build your life with a new girl.

That is what I think I would do. Actually that is what I did. It was the right thing to do. Your deal is worse than mine. Mine was very bad.

Go and be free! I doubt regret will really be an issue. If it is, you have my permission to blame me. Lol!


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> My love for her is dying a slow, painful death. So, not great.


Its like when a great, strong, healthy oak tree gets struck by lightning...

The tree will grow new bark and boll over the burn, but the true damage is internal where you can't see it. The lightning sears the heartwood, damages the vascicles, and even though that big mighty oak may live for several years, putting out limbs and acorns, slowly, bit by bit the oak will wither. Its branches will start to die, it will stop bearing nuts, and the leaves will dry up and fall off. 

In the end, that mighty oak will be reduced to a withered, gray, hollowed out shell of the once beautiful tree that provided shelter and sustinence to all who lived under it. 

That's what your wife did to your love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> Just re-read your summary of what she did. I remember thinking about how bad it was when you first posted.
> 
> I guess what I am trying to say is that this really isn't about a decision to restore a marriage, it is about the best way to divorce and move on.
> 
> Just my thoughts. I think you will never be able to be happily married knowing what has happened. *Obviously this is only my opinion.* I would start putting chunks of money in your new bank account, read about the divorce options, and get physically separated from her.
> 
> Whew!
> 
> Then as you stabilize, work on the divorce issues and figure out how to function.
> 
> Then when your heart is not pounding with adrenaline anymore, start flirting, looking at potential dating prospects, and re-build your life with a new girl.
> 
> That is what I think I would do. Actually that is what I did. It was the right thing to do. Your deal is worse than mine. Mine was very bad.
> 
> Go and be free! I doubt regret will really be an issue. If it is, you have my permission to blame me. Lol!


I don't think I can ever be happy in this marriage knowing what she did either. It's just too much. I would just be tolerating it at best. What kind of life is that? Truck - do you have kids?


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Its like when a great, strong, healthy oak tree gets struck by lightning...
> 
> The tree will grow new bark and boll over the burn, but the true damage is internal where you can't see it. The lightning sears the heartwood, damages the vascicles, and even though that big mighty oak may live for several years, putting out limbs and acorns, slowly, bit by bit the oak will wither. Its branches will start to die, it will stop bearing nuts, and the leaves will dry up and fall off.
> 
> In the end, that mighty oak will be reduced to a withered, gray, hollowed out shell of the once beautiful tree that provided shelter and sustinence to all who lived under it.
> 
> That's what your wife did to your love.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. Painful but accurate and poignant analogy.


----------



## The-Deceived

She feels me slipping away. She wants me to make an app for MC. Why? What good would that do? Make me forget? Make me think it's wasn't all that bad? Convince me to forgive? I don't want to forgive. She threw me and my children in the toilet and flushed us down. Why would I want to forgive her? Why would I want to devote my life to someone who did this to us???


----------



## Jasel

I don't know if I suggested this but maybe you need to move out for a bit and get some space.


edit: doh nm. Forgot you're the one planning on leaving. Sorry I get my BS mixed up. So many sad stories


----------



## Lovemytruck

Son of a gun! I posted what I think was one great post, and it disappeared! Lol! My attempt to re-create it as the condensed version:

Yes, I have two sons age 19 and 22. Much easier than your younger children. 

I would try to let them know that they did not cause it. Let them have more time with decent extended family during the transition. Grandparents, their favorite cousins, aunts, uncles, etc.

It also seems that your wife has the classic traits of BPD. So does my exWW. It is not a project for you or I to fix these kinds of broken people.

My last post captured this, and I hope to do it again...

She needs to be on her own again. She needs to have time to make mistakes, decisions, and grow without you. Think of it as a good thing for her, even though she doesn't want to face herself on her own. She doesn't respect you, doesn't have personal boundries, and you can't help her because of the resentment that may never go away. Let her family and friends support her. You simply can't do it and let her learn about herself.

My exWW seems to have grown since our D. I actually have told her that.

Your childern will someday thank you for being true to what is right. They will be happy knowing that you love them, you are always there, and maybe someday they can have a better role model in a decent step mother.

Being a step parent is not easy, but it is one of the most rewarding things I have done. My new wife has two sons at 19 and 16 years old, and a 13 year old daughter. Love them dearly.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

Lovemytruck said:


> Son of a gun! I posted what I think was one great post, and it disappeared! Lol! My attempt to re-create it as the condensed version:
> 
> Yes, I have two sons age 19 and 22. Much easier than your younger children.
> 
> I would try to let them know that they did not cause it. Let them have more time with decent extended family during the transition. Grandparents, their favorite cousins, aunts, uncles, etc.
> 
> It also seems that your wife has the classic traits of BPD. So does my exWW. It is not a project for you or I to fix these kinds of broken people.
> 
> My last post captured this, and I hope to do it again...
> 
> She needs to be on her own again. She needs to have time to make mistakes, decisions, and grow without you. Think of it as a good thing for her, even though she doesn't want to face herself on her own. She doesn't respect you, doesn't have personal boundries, and you can't help her because of the resentment that may never go away. Let her family and friends support her. You simply can't do it and let her learn about herself.
> 
> My exWW seems to have grown since our D. I actually have told her that.
> 
> Your childern will someday thank you for being true to what is right. They will be happy knowing that you love them, you are always there, and maybe someday they can have a better role model in a decent step mother.
> 
> Being a step parent is not easy, but it is one of the most rewarding things I have done. My new wife has two sons at 19 and 16 years old, and a 13 year old daughter. Love them dearly.


Ilmt,
What do you mean by bottom feeder?
Someone at the bottom (professionally?)
Or
Someone on the top preying on the bottom rungs?

I ask cause I'm trying to figure out my wifes affair partner
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> Son of a gun! I posted what I think was one great post, and it disappeared! Lol! My attempt to re-create it as the condensed version:
> 
> Yes, I have two sons age 19 and 22. Much easier than your younger children.
> 
> I would try to let them know that they did not cause it. Let them have more time with decent extended family during the transition. Grandparents, their favorite cousins, aunts, uncles, etc.
> 
> It also seems that your wife has the classic traits of BPD. So does my exWW. It is not a project for you or I to fix these kinds of broken people.
> 
> My last post captured this, and I hope to do it again...
> 
> She needs to be on her own again. She needs to have time to make mistakes, decisions, and grow without you. Think of it as a good thing for her, even though she doesn't want to face herself on her own. She doesn't respect you, doesn't have personal boundries, and you can't help her because of the resentment that may never go away. Let her family and friends support her. You simply can't do it and let her learn about herself.
> 
> My exWW seems to have grown since our D. I actually have told her that.
> 
> Your childern will someday thank you for being true to what is right. They will be happy knowing that you love them, you are always there, and maybe someday they can have a better role model in a decent step mother.
> 
> Being a step parent is not easy, but it is one of the most rewarding things I have done. My new wife has two sons at 19 and 16 years old, and a 13 year old daughter. Love them dearly.


She's now full on co-dependant too. It's nuts. Non stop texting all day. You are right - I cannot fix her. And I don't want to.


----------



## The-Deceived

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> Ilmt,
> What do you mean by bottom feeder?
> Someone at the bottom (professionally?)
> Or
> Someone on the top preying on the bottom rungs?
> 
> I ask cause I'm trying to figure out my wifes affair partner
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A bottom feeder is a low life, scumbag, dovche-canoe, whatever you want to call it. Someone who you wouldn't pizz on if he was on fire.


----------



## Hope1964

She doesn't get it, if SHE is telling YOU to make an MC appt. She should be the one making ANY appts that involve herself. And you're right, there's no point.

Send her away for the weekend PLEASE. I am exhausted just hearing what she's doing. I can't even imagine how you feel right now


----------



## SaltInWound

bandit.45 said:


> Its like when a great, strong, healthy oak tree gets struck by lightning...
> 
> The tree will grow new bark and boll over the burn, but the true damage is internal where you can't see it. The lightning sears the heartwood, damages the vascicles, and even though that big mighty oak may live for several years, putting out limbs and acorns, slowly, bit by bit the oak will wither. Its branches will start to die, it will stop bearing nuts, and the leaves will dry up and fall off.
> 
> In the end, that mighty oak will be reduced to a withered, gray, hollowed out shell of the once beautiful tree that provided shelter and sustinence to all who lived under it.
> 
> That's what your wife did to your love.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That made me cry. It is so true.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> She doesn't get it, if SHE is telling YOU to make an MC appt. She should be the one making ANY appts that involve herself. And you're right, there's no point.
> 
> Send her away for the weekend PLEASE. I am exhausted just hearing what she's doing. I can't even imagine how you feel right now


She is still texting and calling me at work every 5 minutes. Telling me not to give up, that she won't let me. Asking what lingerie to wear tonight, if I want her to get a sexy photoshoot. Posting on my Facebook wall, instagram. 

It IS exhausting. But it's still all about her, isn't it? But I feel nothing...


----------



## Lovemytruck

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> Ilmt,
> What do you mean by bottom feeder?
> Someone at the bottom (professionally?)
> Or
> Someone on the top preying on the bottom rungs?
> 
> I ask cause I'm trying to figure out my wifes affair partner
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is an attempt to not sound arrogant. She definately lowered her standard in the AP. 

He was a person that was more or less disowned by his immediate family, working as a custodian instead using his training in computers, heavy drinker, couldn't "find" anyone to date, looked like he couldn't afford to bathe, etc. He lived in a dumpy apartment and drove a rusted-out small pick-up. He actully had my exWW buy him a new windshield and pay to get it licensed just prior to my d-day. The kind of guy you don't want your children to become someday.

My exWW was a registered nurse making about 60K, I have an MPA and have held a great job for the past 20 years, and I make good money, too. She also had fairly wealthy parents that are very religious in nature.

She definately affaired down with him. At least he wasn't the biker gang dude like TD's wife. He was definately more of a want to be biker than a real one. Lol! Same chit. Bad boy that really was a loser boy.

Bottom feeder because he went after a married woman too stupid to know. (Sounds bitter?) She even told me that he had not dated in a few years since his divorce. Nice. Of course she felt sorry for him, and he really was a decent person inside. She could save him, and he fell in "love" with her. Naturally, as long as he could get her to go over an f*ck him now and then. Of course they suddenly fell out of "love" once d-day happened, and the light scattered them like **** roaches. But, he did fish for her for a few months after. I found some emails and texts.

I really don't know if I hate him anymore. She was my wife, and he was just a user. I sometimes think he did me a favor in the long run. Lol! 

Sorry for the thread-jack. It has lots of parallels with the OP (The Deceived) in my mind.

Funny thing is that I always viewed myself as a "with it" type of guy. I was fairly athletic, well educated, have lots of friends of all types, always did well dating, always have had attractive women showing interest in me, etc. 

Go figure. When we were attempting R, I remember telling my exWW that I felt I might have missed the boat in life. She said, "Babe, you are the boat." "Women would do anything for a husband like you."

I have stopped trying to figure out the "whys". It seems some people are bent on self destruction and do not enjoy a good, solid marriage. 

Sounds a lot like TD's story, Wonderhow's, or Dr. M's, or a good share of the others that show up here all too often.

Wow! I am being chatty today. Can't wait for a great weekend!!!


----------



## Lovemytruck

Deceived,

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!!! Take that break, and relax if you can.


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> This is an attempt to not sound arrogant. She definately lowered her standard in the AP.
> 
> He was a person that was more or less disowned by his immediate family, working as a custodian instead using his training in computers, heavy drinker, couldn't "find" anyone to date, looked like he couldn't afford to bathe, etc. He lived in a dumpy apartment and drove a rusted-out small pick-up. He actully had my exWW buy him a new windshield and pay to get it licensed just prior to my d-day. The kind of guy you don't want your children to become someday.
> 
> My exWW was a registered nurse making about 60K, I have an MPA and have held a great job for the past 20 years, and I make good money, too. She also had fairly wealthy parents that are very religious in nature.
> 
> She definately affaired down with him. At least he wasn't the biker gang dude like TD's wife. He was definately more of a want to be biker than a real one. Lol! Same chit. Bad boy that really was a loser boy.
> 
> Bottom feeder because he went after a married woman too stupid to know. (Sounds bitter?) She even told me that he had not dated in a few years since his divorce. Nice. Of course she felt sorry for him, and he really was a decent person inside. She could save him, and he fell in "love" with her. Naturally, as long as he could get her to go over an f*ck him now and then. Of course they suddenly fell out of "love" once d-day happened, and the light scattered them like **** roaches. But, he did fish for her for a few months after. I found some emails and texts.
> 
> I really don't know if I hate him anymore. She was my wife, and he was just a user. I sometimes think he did me a favor in the long run. Lol!
> 
> Sorry for the thread-jack. It has lots of parallels with the OP (The Deceived) in my mind.
> 
> Funny thing is that I always viewed myself as a "with it" type of guy. I was fairly athletic, well educated, have lots of friends of all types, always did well dating, always have had attractive women showing interest in me, etc.
> 
> Go figure. When we were attempting R, I remember telling my exWW that I felt I might have missed the boat in life. She said, "Babe, you are the boat." "Women would do anything for a husband like you."
> 
> I have stopped trying to figure out the "whys". It seems some people are bent on self destruction and do not enjoy a good, solid marriage.
> 
> Sounds a lot like TD's story, Wonderhow's, or Dr. M's, or a good share of the others that show up here all too often.
> 
> Wow! I am being chatty today. Can't wait for a great weekend!!!


Many, many parallels. POSom is more of a loser boy than bad boy. But a TOTAL bottom feeder. At least your exWW's POSom had an apartment. My ww had to f*ck this dovche-canoe in his truck and bathrooms.


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> Deceived,
> 
> YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!!! Take that break, and relax if you can.


Thank you brother. You as well, enjoy that faithful wife of yours.


----------



## The-Deceived

Now she's having a mutual female friend text me. A friend that knew before I did that she was cheating. JOY!


----------



## Hope1964

Block both numbers. Now. Holy crap.


----------



## Hope1964

You know, you should just disappear for the weekend. Fall completely off the map. Get a room somewhere, have a few drinks, watch movies, meet up with your buddies for a beer, whatever. And DO NOT tell her where you will be and leave her cell number blocked. Are the Flames playing in town this weekend?


----------



## WTHiswrong

The-Deceived said:


> Would you guys say her case of infidelity is particularly bad? Like more heinous than most?
> 
> 1. cheated for 6 months with a hells angel/coke dealer
> 2. f*cked him in bathrooms and his truck (he didn't have a home)
> 3. didn't use protection
> 4. racked up $45k in debt on God knows what
> 5. used working late as an excuse to be out late when she was actually giving up shifts to go out with posom
> 6. Sleeping all day and being a ***** on the pretence of being exhausted from working while I looked after the kids
> 7. left me on my daughter's 5th birthday via text
> 8. Didn't tell me about the affair until 5 days after she left - only because I asked her
> 
> I mean - does this not seem worse than the average affair?



that's really extreme IMO. made my stomach turn just reading it. i feel for ya TD.


----------



## WTHiswrong

The-Deceived said:


> Now she's having a mutual female friend text me. A friend that knew before I did that she was cheating. JOY!


her friend knew about everything before u and now she's texting u on behalf of WW. WOW!


----------



## WTHiswrong

Hope1964 said:


> You know, you should just disappear for the weekend. Fall completely off the map. Get a room somewhere, have a few drinks, watch movies, meet up with your buddies for a beer, whatever. And DO NOT tell her where you will be and leave her cell number blocked. Are the Flames playing in town this weekend?


:iagree:


----------



## calvin

The-Deceived said:


> Many, many parallels. POSom is more of a loser boy than bad boy. But a TOTAL bottom feeder. At least your exWW's POSom had an apartment. My ww had to f*ck this dovche-canoe in his truck and bathrooms.


Sounds similar.
My POS was wife's ex hs bf,they never had sex then and didnt last year after she looked him up on fb.
He was a twice convicted felon,had 13 people garnishing his check,loser job,no vehicle,stayed with whatever friends he could.
My wife contacted him firs and he went after her.
They met four times in a parking lot during the day,
no more than 5 minutes at a time,my wife got scared and would run,afraid to be see.
They texted and called eachother a lot.
The I loves yous killed me.
She pushed for a divorce and blamed everything on me.
I blew the A up and POS didnt like that.He had plans to move into my house,he did it to two other families and broke them up and did'nt care.
The women he did this too woke up too late.
I kicked my wife out,she stayed at her sisters.
I showed her his arrest record,prision record and all the people he owed money too.
I exposed,he got demoted at work,his internet phone taken away,his work truck taken away and his then girlfriend kicked him out.
He called me for a year telling me I owed him money for my wifes abortion,threatend to come over and f my wife in front of my kids,set up fights with him that he ran from and soooo much more he said to me.
Now he has nothing,I ruined what little life he had.
He sleeps on a couch in the office of the vacum truck company he worked for and must take drug test once a month.
The guy is forty and has dentures,almost had those repo'd.
A year in R and my wif is very remorseful and I still think about pulling the plug.
We had problems but she refused to do MC,
intstead she found this idiot on fb.
Sorry T D,I felt like venting a little too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

cantthinkstraight said:


> Her choice of AP tells me she wanted to hurt herself.
> 
> I don't see how having such a lowlife AP could be thrilling.
> I suppose the coke would help that, but still....
> 
> It just sounds to me like she was/is dealing with some serious
> internal issues that obviously didn't get addressed in time.
> 
> I'm sure no matter how it went down, it wouldn't be comfortable to you.
> 
> Keep your chin up.


You know I have to agree with this. TD, I think if you really want to R with her you probably can but the key is she needs to get to a point where she feels good about herself. Where she doesn't have such a low opinion of herself. The only way she can get there is if you give her a lot of moral support and guidance. Honestly I don't think she has any idea of what direction to go on. You would have to assume the strict leadership position in the marriage and hold yourself in a very confident frame. If you can do that or even want to do that it might be possible to R. I know it seems contrary to what should happen after an affair but I really believe that is what is needed. If you can't or don't feel like you can do that then just end the marriage and go your separate ways. The only problem I see with you divorcing her is I don't think she has the intestinal fortitude to do what she needs to get better if she doesn't have you there to lead her through it. And she is still the mother of your child so any damage she does to herself will inevitably spill over onto you and your daughter.


----------



## Lovemytruck

calvin said:


> Sounds similar.
> My POS was wife's ex hs bf,they never had sex then and didnt last year after she looked him up on fb.
> He was a twice convicted felon,had 13 people garnishing his check,loser job,no vehicle,stayed with whatever friends he could.
> My wife contacted him firs and he went after her.
> They met four times in a parking lot during the day,
> no more than 5 minutes at a time,my wife got scared and would run,afraid to be see.
> They texted and called eachother a lot.
> The I loves yous killed me.
> She pushed for a divorce and blamed everything on me.
> I blew the A up and POS didnt like that.He had plans to move into my house,he did it to two other families and broke them up and did'nt care.
> The women he did this too woke up too late.
> I kicked my wife out,she stayed at her sisters.
> I showed her his arrest record,prision record and all the people he owed money too.
> I exposed,he got demoted at work,his internet phone taken away,his work truck taken away and his then girlfriend kicked him out.
> He called me for a year telling me I owed him money for my wifes abortion,threatend to come over and f my wife in front of my kids,set up fights with him that he ran from and soooo much more he said to me.
> Now he has nothing,I ruined what little life he had.
> He sleeps on a couch in the office of the vacum truck company he worked for and must take drug test once a month.
> The guy is forty and has dentures,almost had those repo'd.
> A year in R and my wif is very remorseful and I still think about pulling the plug.
> We had problems but she refused to do MC,
> intstead she found this idiot on fb.
> Sorry T D,I felt like venting a little too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


HOLY HELL!!!

Bottom feeders unite!

Does it make you wonder how you missed seeing this in your WW when you fell in love with them?

It is amazing at the sickness that infests people that we thought loved us. This is funny to share and read, but all too painful in reality.

I say let the WS have each other, and go find a BS that will cherish you. 

It is cliche but life IS too short to waste it on bad spouses. Spend your energy shopping for a good one.

This time I really am logging off and heading out for the weekend.

Flames tickets for TD? At least he should find some good party or a place to go with some friends.


----------



## Hope1964

Lovemytruck said:


> Flames tickets for TD? At least he should find some good party or a place to go with some friends.


Yeah, not an NHL fan AT ALL myself, but since his city and mine are football and hockey rivals, I just thought I'd bring that up 

What about you, TD - do you watch hockey or football? Please tell me you're a football fan - then I can razz you all summer when the Eskimos beat the Stampeders with our new QB.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> You know, you should just disappear for the weekend. Fall completely off the map. Get a room somewhere, have a few drinks, watch movies, meet up with your buddies for a beer, whatever. And DO NOT tell her where you will be and leave her cell number blocked. Are the Flames playing in town this weekend?


I've actually got the keys to a big old empty house I can use. Not a bad idea. She's still texting me...


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Yeah, not an NHL fan AT ALL myself, but since his city and mine are football and hockey rivals, I just thought I'd bring that up
> 
> What about you, TD - do you watch hockey or football? Please tell me you're a football fan - then I can razz you all summer when the Eskimos beat the Stampeders with our new QB.


I am a complete sports **** - I don't watch it at all. I unwind by playing guitar and writing music. Only similarity is the beer.


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> Now she's having a mutual female friend text me. A friend that knew before I did that she was cheating. JOY!


What the ****. To say what????


----------



## The-Deceived

WTHiswrong said:


> that's really extreme IMO. made my stomach turn just reading it. i feel for ya TD.


It really is. Thanks.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> I am a complete sports **** - I don't watch it at all. I unwind by playing guitar and writing music. Only similarity is the beer.


So are you a beer snob like me?


----------



## Jasel

calvin said:


> Sounds similar.
> My POS was wife's ex hs bf,they never had sex then and didnt last year after she looked him up on fb.
> He was a twice convicted felon,had 13 people garnishing his check,loser job,no vehicle,stayed with whatever friends he could.
> My wife contacted him firs and he went after her.
> They met four times in a parking lot during the day,
> no more than 5 minutes at a time,my wife got scared and would run,afraid to be see.
> They texted and called eachother a lot.
> The I loves yous killed me.
> She pushed for a divorce and blamed everything on me.
> I blew the A up and POS didnt like that.He had plans to move into my house,he did it to two other families and broke them up and did'nt care.
> The women he did this too woke up too late.
> I kicked my wife out,she stayed at her sisters.
> I showed her his arrest record,prision record and all the people he owed money too.
> I exposed,he got demoted at work,his internet phone taken away,his work truck taken away and his then girlfriend kicked him out.
> He called me for a year telling me I owed him money for my wifes abortion,threatend to come over and f my wife in front of my kids,set up fights with him that he ran from and soooo much more he said to me.
> Now he has nothing,I ruined what little life he had.
> He sleeps on a couch in the office of the vacum truck company he worked for and must take drug test once a month.
> The guy is forty and has dentures,almost had those repo'd.
> A year in R and my wif is very remorseful and I still think about pulling the plug.
> We had problems but she refused to do MC,
> intstead she found this idiot on fb.
> Sorry T D,I felt like venting a little too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What.

The.

****.


----------



## calvin

Go Black Hawks!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

calvin said:


> Sounds similar.
> My POS was wife's ex hs bf,they never had sex then and didnt last year after she looked him up on fb.
> He was a twice convicted felon,had 13 people garnishing his check,loser job,no vehicle,stayed with whatever friends he could.
> My wife contacted him firs and he went after her.
> They met four times in a parking lot during the day,
> no more than 5 minutes at a time,my wife got scared and would run,afraid to be see.
> They texted and called eachother a lot.
> The I loves yous killed me.
> She pushed for a divorce and blamed everything on me.
> I blew the A up and POS didnt like that.He had plans to move into my house,he did it to two other families and broke them up and did'nt care.
> The women he did this too woke up too late.
> I kicked my wife out,she stayed at her sisters.
> I showed her his arrest record,prision record and all the people he owed money too.
> I exposed,he got demoted at work,his internet phone taken away,his work truck taken away and his then girlfriend kicked him out.
> He called me for a year telling me I owed him money for my wifes abortion,threatend to come over and f my wife in front of my kids,set up fights with him that he ran from and soooo much more he said to me.
> Now he has nothing,I ruined what little life he had.
> He sleeps on a couch in the office of the vacum truck company he worked for and must take drug test once a month.
> The guy is forty and has dentures,almost had those repo'd.
> A year in R and my wif is very remorseful and I still think about pulling the plug.
> We had problems but she refused to do MC,
> intstead she found this idiot on fb.
> Sorry T D,I felt like venting a little too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's awful man. No problem on the venting.

But I have to LOL at the repo'd dentures. That's just classic.


----------



## tom67

The-Deceived said:


> I've actually got the keys to a big old empty house I can use. Not a bad idea. She's still texting me...


blackhawks and sharks tonight but I might float around and watch other games. Have a good weekend TD you deserve it!


----------



## Hope1964

Why haven't you blocked her cell number??

Get out now while you can, because if you wait till she gets home you KNOW she's going to pull something to make you stay. GO. NOW.


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> What the ****. To say what????


It's really weird - this woman has always flirted hardcore with me - like commenting on my package, always calling me a "sexy motherf*cker". It always pissed my wife off. 

I suspect ww texted her telling her I was slipping away. She basically asked how our love life was doing.

It's a really weird dynamic.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> So are you a beer snob like me?


I only drink Heineken, so I'd say I'm a snob, yes. What do u like?


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> It's really weird - this woman has always flirted hardcore with me - like commenting on my package, always calling me a "sexy motherf*cker". It always pissed my wife off.
> 
> I suspect ww texted her telling her I was slipping away. She basically asked how our love life was doing.
> 
> It's a really weird dynamic.


Damn your wife has toxic friends too?? Hope you're ignoring her. She sounds skanky anyway.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Why haven't you blocked her cell number??
> 
> Get out now while you can, because if you wait till she gets home you KNOW she's going to pull something to make you stay. GO. NOW.


She's still with the kids - her folks are coming to get them right away to take them out of town until Sunday. I don't want to block until I know the kids are off safe. I'm downtown, she's at home. We're supposed to go out tonight. I just won't go home - as you're right, I won't get out of there if I do. It's gonna get real ugly.


----------



## The-Deceived

tom67 said:


> blackhawks and sharks tonight but I might float around and watch other games. Have a good weekend TD you deserve it!


----------



## The-Deceived

The ass kissing texts madly continue...I can't buy into this...


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> She's still with the kids - her folks are coming to get them right away to take them out of town until Sunday. I don't want to block until I know the kids are off safe. I'm downtown, she's at home. We're supposed to go out tonight. I just won't go home - as you're right, I won't get out of there if I do. It's gonna get real ugly.


When you deal with your wife from here on out you might want to have a VAR on you when you do.


----------



## tom67

Is her friend hot?Sorry TD come on it's friday


----------



## southernsurf

calvin said:


> Sounds similar.
> My POS was wife's ex hs bf,they never had sex then and didnt last year after she looked him up on fb.
> He was a twice convicted felon,had 13 people garnishing his check,loser job,no vehicle,stayed with whatever friends he could.
> My wife contacted him firs and he went after her.
> They met four times in a parking lot during the day,
> no more than 5 minutes at a time,my wife got scared and would run,afraid to be see.
> They texted and called eachother a lot.
> The I loves yous killed me.
> She pushed for a divorce and blamed everything on me.
> I blew the A up and POS didnt like that.He had plans to move into my house,he did it to two other families and broke them up and did'nt care.
> The women he did this too woke up too late.
> I kicked my wife out,she stayed at her sisters.
> I showed her his arrest record,prision record and all the people he owed money too.
> I exposed,he got demoted at work,his internet phone taken away,his work truck taken away and his then girlfriend kicked him out.
> He called me for a year telling me I owed him money for my wifes abortion,threatend to come over and f my wife in front of my kids,set up fights with him that he ran from and soooo much more he said to me.
> Now he has nothing,I ruined what little life he had.
> He sleeps on a couch in the office of the vacum truck company he worked for and must take drug test once a month.
> The guy is forty and has dentures,almost had those repo'd.
> A year in R and my wif is very remorseful and I still think about pulling the plug.
> We had problems but she refused to do MC,
> intstead she found this idiot on fb.
> Sorry T D,I felt like venting a little too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


wow and you gave her another chance.


----------



## Hope1964

Yeah, you need a weekend away from her. You really do!

I have a few favorite beers. 
- Steamwhistle from Toronto. We visited their brewery in November and I really like their brewing philosophy.
- Grumpy Bear wheat ale and Beavertail raspberry by Grizzly Paw Brewing out of Canmore. 
- Rickards Red and White
- Big Rock Honey Brown
There's more but that's enough for now.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> The ass kissing texts madly continue...I can't buy into this...


How long till you'll know the kids are taken care of?


----------



## warlock07

The-Deceived., she is getting desperate and acting panicky. She is acting delusional. She is asking you what lingerie to wear tonight ? It is just so sad and pathetic that the only way she think she can pull you back into the relationship is through sex. Which also puts focus on her low esteem and self-worth as a person(another reason for the affair and choice of OM.). Calm her down first. She sounds unstable and she can see you distancing yourself away from her. Even if you have to lie to her now

Ask her to stop the texts for a little while. Tell her you will talk to her once you get back home. You resent this woman for what she did but you need to handle this carefully as she is also the mother of your kids. 

Also, could it be that she spent the money on her drug habit(her and OM) during the affair ?


----------



## The-Deceived

tom67 said:


> Is her friend hot?Sorry TD come on it's friday


Yes.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> How long till you'll know the kids are taken care of?


Feeling that out now...


----------



## The-Deceived

warlock07 said:


> The-Deceived., she is getting desperate and acting panicky. She is acting delusional. She is asking you what lingerie to wear tonight ? It is just so sad and pathetic that the only way she think she can pull you back into the relationship is through sex. Which also puts focus on her low esteem and self-worth as a person(another reason for the affair and choice of OM.). Calm her down first. She sounds unstable and she can see you distancing yourself away from her. Even if you have to lie to her now
> 
> Ask her to stop the texts for a little while. Tell her you will talk to her once you get back home. You resent this woman for what she did but you need to handle this carefully as she is also the mother of your kids.
> 
> Also, could it be that she spent the money on her drug habit(her and OM) during the affair ?


I know it. I will handle it with kindness - that's all I can do. There's no easy way...

She admitted to taking cash advances on her cc, so it's entirely possible our money went to that. I asked if it went to coke, she said no. She is a liar.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> Now she's having a mutual female friend text me. A friend that knew before I did that she was cheating. JOY!


This is laughable. 

I mean really.....I'm choking back a laugh. 

Talk about audacity!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Hope1964 said:


> Yeah, you need a weekend away from her. You really do!
> 
> I have a few favorite beers.
> - Steamwhistle from Toronto. We visited their brewery in November and I really like their brewing philosophy.
> - Grumpy Bear wheat ale and Beavertail raspberry by Grizzly Paw Brewing out of Canmore.
> - Rickards Red and White
> - Big Rock Honey Brown
> There's more but that's enough for now.


Sounds yummy. 

But let an ex-drunk give you some advice:

Go easy on the booze. Alcohol is a great crutch, but it will take you over if you let it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> This is laughable.
> 
> I mean really.....I'm choking back a laugh.
> 
> Talk about audacity!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


who said reality isn't stranger than fiction?:scratchhead:


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> I know it. I will handle it with kindness - that's all I can do. There's no easy way...
> 
> She admitted to taking cash advances on her cc, so it's entirely possible our money went to that. I asked if it went to coke, she said no. She is a liar.


You can pretty much take that as a given. 

When you file for divorce, give the CC bill to your attorney and ask that it be credited against any alimony or spousal support she may ask you to pay...

Because she will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

bandit.45 said:


> Go easy on the booze. Alcohol is a great crutch, but it will take you over if you let it.


Believe me, I know!!


----------



## The-Deceived

I just told her I'm not coming home tonight, that what she did was too awful and I can never forgive. She's not having it...I guess I should turn off my phone.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> I just told her I'm not coming home tonight, that what she did was too awful and I can never forgive. She's not having it...I guess I should turn off my phone.


Go dark. Stay gone all weekend. Let a close family member or friend know where you're at and who won't tell her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

bandit.45 said:


> Go dark. Stay gone all weekend. Let a close family member or friend know where you're at and who won't tell her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: :iagree: Just block her number if you can. But yeah, you need to NOT hear from her.

The fact she's acting like this tells me that she really has NO CLUE what she's done to you. There's a thread in here by tears, a wife who cheated but who did everything right to try and save her marriage. If your wife was acting like tears, then my advice would be the total opposite.


----------



## calvin

bandit.45 said:


> Go dark. Stay gone all weekend. Let a close family member or friend know where you're at and who won't tell her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I second this.
You need a break and she will be fine.
Take Monday off of work and get the hell out of Dodge.
Let a couple close friends know youre leaving for a day or two and dont let her find out.
Clear you mind and think about what YOU want to do.
Not what she wants you to do.
Seems like she trying to guilt you into this.
R if you want too.Its up to you and no one else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Go dark. Stay gone all weekend. Let a close family member or friend know where you're at and who won't tell her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm going to do just that.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> :iagree: :iagree: Just block her number if you can. But yeah, you need to NOT hear from her.
> 
> The fact she's acting like this tells me that she really has NO CLUE what she's done to you. There's a thread in here by tears, a wife who cheated but who did everything right to try and save her marriage. If your wife was acting like tears, then my advice would be the total opposite.


Yes. "You know you love me. You'll always love me".
"I'm begging you to come talk to me, please do this for me"


----------



## The-Deceived

calvin said:


> I second this.
> You need a break and she will be fine.
> Take Monday off of work and get the hell out of Dodge.
> Let a couple close friends know youre leaving for a day or two and dont let her find out.
> Clear you mind and think about what YOU want to do.
> Not what she wants you to do.
> Seems like she trying to guilt you into this.
> R if you want too.Its up to you and no one else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have vacation days - good call on Monday.


----------



## The-Deceived

She's texting, calling my cell, calling my work...


----------



## Hope1964

ME me Me Me Me ME ME me me me me Me Me me Me ME me me Me ME me


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> She's texting, calling my cell, calling my work...


Holy crap. She's a total whacknut. BLOCK her.


----------



## bandit.45

The constant calling and texting is a type of bullying if you think about it. Its her trying to force him to succumb to her will....dominance, not R, is her goal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> ME me Me Me Me ME ME me me me me Me Me me Me ME me me Me ME me


:iagree:


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Holy crap. She's a total whacknut. BLOCK her.


Yes, she's certifiable.


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> The constant calling and texting is a type of bullying if you think about it. Its her trying to force him to succumb to her will....dominance, not R, is her goal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It really is.


----------



## HappyHubby

Someone should tell her how selfish she is being. Is there any way to educate her about what she needs to do and the perspective she should have if there is any hope of reconciliation?

How about that betrayed spouse survival guide that is meant for the wayward and is about 10 pages long? lol. Have you provided that to her? Has anyone posted here in this thread? Maybe you could pass it on to a friend who could then pass it on to her. Someone should be telling her that the only 'needs' she ever talks about are her own. Maybe time away, having someone sit down with her and explain it all to her will give her enough perspective to wake her up out of the 'pity me' fog.


----------



## The-Deceived

HappyHubby said:


> Someone should tell her how selfish she is being. Is there any way to educate her about what she needs to do and the perspective she should have if there is any hope of reconciliation?
> 
> How about that betrayed spouse survival guide that is meant for the wayward and is about 10 pages long? lol. Have you provided that to her? Has anyone posted here in this thread? Maybe you could pass it on to a friend who could then pass it on to her. Someone should be telling her that the only 'needs' she ever talks about are her own. Maybe time away, having someone sit down with her and explain it all to her will give her enough perspective to wake her up out of the 'pity me' fog.


Even if she shifted that way of thinking, I could never get past what she did. It's too horrible. She disgusts me.


----------



## calvin

I dont know T D,I like happy endings and all that happy crap but I kinda see a stalker in the making.
Watch your ass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

calvin said:


> I dont know T D,I like happy endings and all that happy crap but I kinda see a stalker in the making.
> Watch your ass.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what my mom just said to me.


----------



## Jonesey

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> What sucks is that she says she dumped him because she
> Figured out he was using her.
> 
> That's the reason?!
> I feel for you bro.
> 
> You have a full plate but at least u have a remorseful wife.
> How u doin today?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Money proboblt ran out


----------



## bandit.45

calvin said:


> I dont know T D,I like happy endings and all that happy crap but I kinda see a stalker in the making.
> Watch your ass.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

She really is that screwed up? Wow. 

You should start documenting her behaviour for child custody.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

The-Deceived said:


> Now she's having a mutual female friend text me. A friend that knew before I did that she was cheating. JOY!


If the friend knew, but didn't tell you, then the friend is a toxic enabler of the affair. That means that she needs to drop the friend as a condition of reconciliation. She needs to send the friend a no-contact letter for enabling the affair and never speak to her again.

She needs to know right now that reconciliation is going to be the hardest thing she's ever done. Losing friends who enabled the affair is just a small piece of what she'll need to do.

Has she quit the job yet? Staying out of the bar forever also needs to be a condition of reconciliation.


----------



## Jonesey

Lovemytruck said:


> This is an attempt to not sound arrogant. She definately lowered her standard in the AP.
> 
> 
> 
> Go figure. When we were attempting R, I remember telling my exWW that I felt I might have missed the boat in life. *She said, "Babe, you are the boat." "Women would do anything for a husband like you."*
> 
> Sorry to have to ask ,but WTF how on earth did you manage to stay quiet? I mean WoW


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> She really is that screwed up? Wow.
> 
> You should start documenting her behaviour for child custody.


She really is. If she doesn't calm down and act rationally, I will play that card.


----------



## The-Deceived

WorkingOnMe said:


> If the friend knew, but didn't tell you, then the friend is a toxic enabler of the affair. That means that she needs to drop the friend as a condition of reconciliation. She needs to send the friend a no-contact letter for enabling the affair and never speak to her again.
> 
> She needs to know right now that reconciliation is going to be the hardest thing she's ever done. Losing friends who enabled the affair is just a small piece of what she'll need to do.
> 
> Has she quit the job yet? Staying out of the bar forever also needs to be a condition of reconciliation.


I no longer wish to reconcile. I am done.


----------



## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> If the friend knew, but didn't tell you, then the friend is a toxic enabler of the affair. That means that she needs to drop the friend as a condition of reconciliation. She needs to send the friend a no-contact letter for enabling the affair and never speak to her again.
> 
> She needs to know right now that reconciliation is going to be the hardest thing she's ever done. Losing friends who enabled the affair is just a small piece of what she'll need to do.
> 
> Has she quit the job yet? Staying out of the bar forever also needs to be a condition of reconciliation.


Her and the friend were probably tag-teaming bikers.

Skanks....


----------



## Jonesey

bandit.45 said:


>


DAMNIT MAN you scared the sh!t out of me


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Her and the friend were probably tag-teaming bikers.
> 
> Skanks....


She is my cousins wife - I've known them longer than my wife. She lives out of province (out of state for you Americans). Last summer, when this started up, the 2 of them went to the bar where she works and did a bunch of blow. POSOM was there, so no doubt she knew at the time.

Just got a text from this woman "hey handsome, need to talk? I'm always here for you...".


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> She is my cousins wife - I've known them longer than my wife. She lives out of province (out of state for you Americans). Last summer, when this started up, the 2 of them went to the bar where she works and did a bunch of blow. POSOM was there, so no doubt she knew at the time.
> 
> Just got a text from this woman "*hey handsome, need to talk? I'm always here for you*...".


Text back "Hey Skank!.........No thank!"


----------



## Rags

The-Deceived said:


> Just got a text from this woman "hey handsome, need to talk? I'm always here for you...".


Umm ... can I just say, no matter how tempting it might be (I don't know) - I doubt it would help your self esteem - really.


----------



## calvin

The-Deceived said:


> I no longer wish to reconcile. I am done.


I would'nt blame you but take those couple days off and think about it,really think.
See how she reacts to you going dark for a couple days.
She how she is when you come back.
No matter what,she lost any and all rights to be Mrs. TD.
Don't do something because of what the people here say.
Do what you think is best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

Rags said:


> Umm ... can I just say, no matter how tempting it might be (I don't know) - I doubt it would help your self esteem - really.


Her husband and I are very close. And I am no POSOM.


----------



## The-Deceived

calvin said:


> I would'nt blame you but take those couple days off and think about it,really think.
> See how she reacts to you going dark for a couple days.
> She how she is when you come back.
> No matter what,she lost any and all rights to be Mrs. TD.
> Don't do something because of what the people here say.
> Do what you think is best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've known in my heart for a while now that I am done.


----------



## SaltInWound

The-Deceived said:


> Just got a text from this woman "hey handsome, need to talk? I'm always here for you...".


Why is there no barf smilie?


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> Her husband and I are very close. And I am no POSOM.


Well you know what they say...

"Slvts of a feather don't stick together. They cheat with each other's husbands..."


----------



## calvin

The-Deceived said:


> I've known in my heart for a while now that I am done.


I dig it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

The-Deceived said:


> She is my cousins wife - I've known them longer than my wife. She lives out of province (out of state for you Americans). Last summer, when this started up, the 2 of them went to the bar where she works and did a bunch of blow. POSOM was there, so no doubt she knew at the time.
> 
> Just got a text from this woman "hey handsome, need to talk? I'm always here for you...".


Seriously? Forward it to your cousin


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

bandit.45 said:


> Well
> you know what they say...
> 
> "Slvts of a feather don't stick together. They cheat with each other's husbands..."


Who says that??
Lol.
I'm gonna use that line
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

I think you should give a bit of thinking on how to end this marriage. The way you are doing it now, the situation will escalate into something nasty. You know you wife. So discuss with your family and friends on how to approach the situation and "manage" her so as to make it less hurtful for both the parties....


----------



## calvin

warlock07 said:


> I think you should give a bit of thinking on how to end this marriage. The way you are doing it now, the situation will escalate into something nasty. You know you wife. So discuss with your family and friends on how to approach the situation and "manage" her so as to make it less hurtful for both the parties....


You have that right Warlock.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

The-Deceived said:


> Her husband and I are very close. And I am no POSOM.


TD, do I have this straight (perhaps I missed something)? You said this "friend" that is now texting you on your WW's behalf knew all about her betrayal before you did. You also said that you've known these people longer than your WW and you're good friends with the husband of this supposed "friend". 

Is he aware of her enabling culpability in all this?


----------



## warlock07

> Holy crap. She's a total whacknut. BLOCK her.





The-Deceived said:


> Yes. "You know you love me. You'll always love me".
> "I'm begging you to come talk to me, please do this for me"


Again, if she was that sane to begin with, she would not have had the affair with the lowlife biker. Her emotional intelligence is severely lacking.

She in her f*cked mind is doing all she can. Again, this is not a case of a WW being apathetic to R or being cruel in the aftermath. She noticed that OP is moving on and is acting crazy...

Sometimes I wish Beowulf kept posting.. Some of the threads are turning into hate fests these days


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> She really is. If she doesn't calm down and act rationally, I will play that card.


From what I can see, she hasn't been calm or rational for a while...........


----------



## bandit.45

I miss Wulf. And Morituri. Those two guys brought clarity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calvin

bandit.45 said:


> I miss Wulf. And Morituri. Those two guys brought clarity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree,never was anyone like those two and never will be.
Tams lost a valuable resouce.
You'd think by now they'd be paroled.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

calvin said:


> I agree,never was anyone like those two and never will be.
> Tams lost a valuable resouce.
> You'd think by now they'd be paroled.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Obviously, they were before my limited time here. What happened?


----------



## calvin

3putt said:


> Obviously, they were before my limited time here. What happened?


All I can say is they were a huge help.
To many couples who went through the garbage we all had to deal with.
I miss them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lifescript

Anyone knows how they are doing. Morituri helped me a lot on the subject of forgiveness.


----------



## Lifescript

The Deceived, 

Not sure if this has been covered already. Do you think she has bpd?


----------



## 3putt

calvin said:


> All I can say is they were a huge help.
> To many couples who went through the garbage we all had to deal with.
> I miss them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry they're not here anymore. Obviously good people. I like to learn from folks like this.

Who was it that said: _"every man is my master in that I may learn something from him"_.


----------



## calvin

3putt said:


> Sorry they're not here anymore. Obviously good people. I like to learn from folks like this.
> 
> Who was it that said: _"every man is my master in that I may learn something from him"_.


You still can if you can find some of his old post or threads.
Anyone link him please?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Lifescript said:


> Anyone knows how they are doing. Morituri helped me a lot on the subject of forgiveness.


The moderators, in their infinite wisdom, banned Beowulf for life.

Morituri comes down off his mountain every once in a while to fellowship with us mortals, and to buy up all the twinkies at the Safeway to replenish his stash in his cave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

calvin said:


> You still can if you can find some of his old post or threads.
> Anyone link him please?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll search for it and read more when I have time.

Thanks calvin.


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> She is my cousins wife - I've known them longer than my wife. She lives out of province (out of state for you Americans). Last summer, when this started up, the 2 of them went to the bar where she works and did a bunch of blow. POSOM was there, so no doubt she knew at the time.
> 
> Just got a text from this woman "hey handsome, need to talk? I'm always here for you...".


Any chance your wife is putting her up to that?? Maybe test what is going on in your head (Maybe he's thinking about cheating on me !!!*cryfest*)



Lifescript said:


> The Deceived,
> 
> Not sure if this has been covered already. Do you think she has bpd?


She sounds like she might have some type of histrionic personality disorder.



> Histrionic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people act in a very emotional and dramatic way that draws attention to themselves.
> 
> *Symptoms*
> 
> People with this disorder are usually able to function at a high level and can be successful socially and at work.
> 
> Symptoms include:
> 
> Acting or looking overly seductive
> 
> Being easily influenced by other people
> 
> Being overly concerned with their looks
> 
> Being overly dramatic and emotional
> 
> Being overly sensitive to criticism or disapproval
> 
> Believing that relationships are more intimate than they actually are
> 
> Blaming failure or disappointment on others
> 
> Constantly seeking reassurance or approval
> 
> Having a low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification
> 
> Needing to be the center of attention (self-centeredness)
> 
> Quickly changing emotions, which may seem shallow to others


----------



## 3putt

bandit.45 said:


> The moderators, in their infinite wisdom, banned Beowulf for life.
> 
> Morituri comes down off his mountain every once in a while to fellowship with us mortals, and to buy up all the twinkies at the Safeway to replenish his stash in his cave.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Alright, I'm morbidly curious about this one. Banned for life?

PM if you care not to rehash on the board. Kinda hard to understand how someone that obviously has so much respect from the board gets permabanned.

He must've really gone off the deep end for something like that to happen.

BTW, I really do HATE when someone buys all the Twinkies at the Safeway. It's an endless source of pissedoffedness for me. What's wrong with Little Debbie's for a change? That's just cruel and unusual.

Now I know who to properly blame.


----------



## Shaggy

TD, ok you are done. You do not need to do be harsh with her. You has plans with her tonight and now not only have you ditched those plans you aren't coming home, you are dumping her and going dark.

She's desperate and falling apart, you are ratcheting things up the way you are handling this. Leaving is ok, but take the low drama high road.


----------



## tom67

Shaggy said:


> TD, ok you are done. You do not need to do be harsh with her. You has plans with her tonight and now not only have you ditched those plans you aren't coming home, you are dumping her and going dark.
> 
> She's desperate and falling apart, you are ratcheting things up the way you are handling this. Leaving is ok, but take the low drama high road.


I guess after they r'd he has now hit the anger stage. I would be angry and mentally exhausted too from what he has told us. That text from your cousin's wife is disturbing and he should be told about this jmo.


----------



## Shaggy

tom67 said:


> I guess after they r'd he has now hit the anger stage. I would be angry and mentally exhausted too from what he has told us. That text from your cousin's wife is disturbing and he should be told about this jmo.


Yeah, he's got every right to be very angry., but he's gonna bring on even more grief for himself if she totally flips out and I think she is near that.


----------



## tom67

Shaggy said:


> Yeah, he's got every right to be very angry., but he's gonna bring on even more grief for himself if she totally flips out and I think she is near that.


Right and I don't want to see this on the id channel. TD call her sister who hates her but let her know how unstable she is and you are worried about the kids


----------



## warlock07

TD, did you read about the anger stage ? Looks you are at that point mentally. Read about it if you can.


----------



## lordmayhem

warlock07 said:


> TD, did you read about the anger stage ? Looks you are at that point mentally. Read about it if you can.


:iagree:

Most definitely in the anger phase.


----------



## The-Deceived

I'm not angry. I'm sad. And resolute.


----------



## Lifescript

*Re: Re: She cheated. Wow.*



bandit.45 said:


> The moderators, in their infinite wisdom, banned Beowulf for life.
> 
> Morituri comes down off his mountain every once in a while to fellowship with us mortals, and to buy up all the twinkies at the Safeway to replenish his stash in his cave.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bandit, 

Why the hell did they do that? Bewolf was so insightful.


----------



## bandit.45

Lifescript said:


> Bandit,
> 
> Why the hell did they do that? Bewolf was so insightful.


Ask Halien or ChrisH.


----------



## Lifescript

Ok


----------



## The-Deceived

It was a wild ride. She is going to get a place around here so the kids can stay in the same school. I'm going to keep the house. We have talked a lot and she fought real hard at first, then relented. She's sad, but says she has some relief, as she was living every second waiting for me to leave. And the guilt was eating her alive.

I told her I can forgive her now, and she told me to let go of the pain and anger and that she only wants happiness for me.

We agreed to be loving friends and parents. But we both acknowledge the marriage is over. 

My kids know. I talked to both of them. They will be OK. Surrounded by love. And my soon to be ex wife and I will treat each other with kindness and respect.

Bitter Sweet indeed.


----------



## calvin

The-Deceived said:


> It was a wild ride. She is going to get a place around here so the kids can stay in the same school. I'm going to keep the house. We have talked a lot and she fought real hard at first, then relented. She's sad, but says she has some relief, as she was living every second waiting for me to leave. And the guilt was eating her alive.
> 
> I told her I can forgive her now, and she told me to let go of the pain and anger and that she only wants happiness for me.
> 
> We agreed to be loving friends and parents. But we both acknowledge the marriage is over.
> 
> My kids know. I talked to both of them. They will be OK. Surrounded by love. And my soon to be ex wife and I will treat each other with kindness and respect.
> 
> Bitter Sweet indeed.


Sucks...I think your doing the right thing though.
Who knows? Maybe down the road if she proves herself and makes some changes..
Do whats best for you.Right now I think seperation is best,maybe even D.
After reading your thread I think I would do the same.
You tried.
Get ready for her to really go nuts though.
If she wants tol get back into your heart she will be a new woman.
If she begs,text,pleads be careful.
Stalking wont be far behind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

Glad to see that didn't go too badly. I half thought she was going to cut you.


----------



## Acabado

Glad yp hear things are going "well".
Hang in there man.


----------



## bandit.45

I think she's losing the battle to win the war. 

She's gonna come back mean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

bandit.45 said:


> *I think she's losing the battle to win the war.
> 
> She's gonna come back* mean.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure about the last word. She won't give up anyway.


----------



## bandit.45

She's being nice hoping she doesn't lose her meal ticket. But when the divorce comes and all that entails with child custody and all that? Her demeanor will change real quick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

And what if she decides to start dating from the looser pool and doing coke again?


----------



## bandit.45

Shaggy said:


> And what if she decides to start dating from the looser pool and doing coke again?


What do you mean "what if"?

If she gets rejected by Decieved, her self hatred and mental illness will compound tenfold. He hasn't yet seen the depths of her depravity.

Its gonna get UGLY.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> It was a wild ride. She is going to get a place around here so the kids can stay in the same school. I'm going to keep the house. We have talked a lot and she fought real hard at first, then relented. She's sad, but says she has some relief, as she was living every second waiting for me to leave. And the guilt was eating her alive.
> 
> I told her I can forgive her now, and she told me to let go of the pain and anger and that she only wants happiness for me.
> 
> We agreed to be *loving friends and parents*. But we both acknowledge the marriage is over.
> 
> My kids know. I talked to both of them. They will be OK. Surrounded by love. *And my soon to be ex wife and I will treat each other with kindness and respect.*
> 
> Bitter Sweet indeed.


Um......

Hate to burst your bubble friend.....


----------



## cantthinkstraight

Loving friends?

Let's not let it get out of hand here, I mean... come on.


----------



## The-Deceived

So far she's still accepting and we're being totally civil.

My kids are having a hard time. My boy is like me and feels stress in his stomach. I hate that. My daughter is very distraught and insecure.

We meet Friday to hash out the logistics.

Gonna be a hard road.


----------



## Hope1964

Yeah, it's hard on the kids  Just remember SHE did this to them. 

Once their new reality sinks in and they see that the world hasn't ended, they'll be better. But part of what your stbxw has to do here should be arranging for counseling or some kind of group for them, and being responsible for taking them every week or whenever.

My kids were in a program called Rainbows when I split with their dad.

Grief Support, Youth Support Programs, Helping Children With Loss // Home


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Yeah, it's hard on the kids  Just remember SHE did this to them.
> 
> Once their new reality sinks in and they see that the world hasn't ended, they'll be better. But part of what your stbxw has to do here should be arranging for counseling or some kind of group for them, and being responsible for taking them every week or whenever.
> 
> My kids were in a program called Rainbows when I split with their dad.
> 
> Grief Support, Youth Support Programs, Helping Children With Loss // Home


Thanks Hope. She sure did. She burnt us down to the ground. I now realize she was gaslighting quite a bit too. She's a damaged person. Only she can fix herself.

She went right back to her old job. She's going to be there forever. Pretty damn pathetic. 

I deserve a woman who loves and respects me.


----------



## tom67

The-Deceived said:


> Thanks Hope. She sure did. She burnt us down to the ground. I now realize she was gaslighting quite a bit too. She's a damaged person. Only she can fix herself.
> 
> She went right back to her old job. She's going to be there forever. Pretty damn pathetic.
> 
> I deserve a woman who loves and respects me.


She's not even trying to improve herself sad just sad. Tell her sister maybe she can 2by4 her not your problem except if she brings scum over with an 8 ball and she'll give it up for the drugs sorry I hope not TD.


----------



## Acabado

The-Deceived said:


> Thanks Hope. She sure did. She burnt us down to the ground. I now realize she was gaslighting quite a bit too. She's a damaged person. Only she can fix herself.
> She went right back to her old job. She's going to be there forever. Pretty damn pathetic. I deserve a woman who loves and respects me.


Back to the bar?
Really sad.


----------



## Chaparral

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> What sucks is that she says she dumped him because she
> Figured out he was using her.
> 
> That's the reason?!
> I feel for you bro.
> 
> You have a full plate but at least u have a remorseful wife.
> How u doin today?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





TRy said:


> Coke is used by some men to help them seduce women. Sex with someone new has the advantage of newness over same old same old with a husband of many years; this is a documented advantage. Sex while on coke is said to be particularly exhilarating. Your wife began to associate sex with the OM and coke as one. This was a powerfully addictive combination that would drive her even when she was sober. Not an excuse, just saying what happened.


If he had done much coke at all, he eould not be able to get an erection while he was high on coke.

Just sayin


----------



## The-Deceived

chapparal said:


> If he had done much coke at all, he eould not be able to get an erection while he was high on coke.
> 
> Just sayin


Ya, she said that was the case. Coke is a total boner killer.

I suspect he had to push it in with his finger. Hope he was worth it.


----------



## sandc

tom67 said:


> She's not even trying to improve herself sad just sad. Tell her sister maybe she can 2by4 her not your problem except if she brings scum over with an 8 ball and she'll give it up for the drugs sorry I hope not TD.


And brace yourself now for what Shaggy and Bandit were talking about. She will begin dating losers. Make sure she understands these guys cannot be around your children at all. You can't enforce this but buffalo her best you can.


----------



## spudster

I don't think you are going to be able to be nice to her in the divorce, especially when it comes to custody of the children. 

You know she's going to start partying and drugging again. Why would you expose your children to that? Get a mean azz lawyer and file for sole custody of the kids. Later if she cleans up her act you can dole out the visitation as you see fit. 

Watch her like a hawk and protect those kids. The fact that she went right back to the bar shows you she has no intention of changing her ways. If anything, expect her to ramp up her self-destructive behavior now that she no longer has you looking over her shoulder. 

So sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lovemytruck

I have been away from your story since Friday.

Sounds like things are much clearer on your direction. The worry about being able to R is now in the rear-view mirror, and D is on the horizon.

The path is now determined, and you can begin your new life and journey.

I really hope the kids can survive it with minimal damage. Many have given you great advice, IMO. 

This probably will be some of those defining moments that shape who you are, and who you will become. It is good that you are a thinker, and a listener.

We all feel for you. It is a tough spell, but you will be ok.

I look forward to the day when you post that you are finally in a good relationship with a better woman, and that your kids love and respect you for the trials that you overcame.

All in due time.


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> I have been away from your story since Friday.
> 
> Sounds like things are much clearer on your direction. The worry about being able to R is now in the rear-view mirror, and D is on the horizon.
> 
> The path is now determined, and you can begin your new life and journey.
> 
> I really hope the kids can survive it with minimal damage. Many have given you great advice, IMO.
> 
> This probably will be some of those defining moments that shape who you are, and who you will become. It is good that you are a thinker, and a listener.
> 
> We all feel for you. It is a tough spell, but you will be ok.
> 
> I look forward to the day when you post that you are finally in a good relationship with a better woman, and that your kids love and respect you for the trials that you overcame.
> 
> All in due time.


Yes - I am looking forward to chapter 2. I really hope she can take care of herself so she can be a good mom to my kids.

I am relieved, while in mourning for the loss of my family unit. But I have made my decision, and it's the right one.

I see her for who she really is, and I do not want to be married to her any more. I tried. It's time to move on.

Cheers bro.


----------



## calvin

Cant blame you TD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BURNT KEP

The-Deceived said:


> Yes - I am looking forward to chapter 2. I really hope she can take care of herself so she can be a good mom to my kids.
> 
> I am relieved, while in mourning for the loss of my family unit. But I have made my decision, and it's the right one.
> 
> I see her for who she really is, and I do not want to be married to her any more. I tried. It's time to move on.
> 
> Cheers bro.


Good luck I hope all ends well.


----------



## The-Deceived

She just texted me "I love you". Right. If you love someone you don't cheat on them for 6 months with a gutter rat and potentially expose them to STD's. You don't throw your husband and children away if you "love" the husband.

She is so f'ed up. I feel absolute nothing for her. 

I think the reality is sinking in for her. She burned down our life and now she has to face the consequences.

In Canada, you have to be separated for 1 year before you can D. UNLESS there is infidelity. I'm contemplating pulling that card. Why drag it out a year?


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> Why drag it out a year?


That's a very good question.


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> That's a very good question.


She would have to sign a sworn statement admitting infidelity. Wonder if she'll do it...


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> She would have to sign a sworn statement admitting infidelity. Wonder if she'll do it...


If you do want to go that route better to try to get her to go for it it sooner while she's still remorseful and in shock as opposed to later when she most likely won't be as much of either.


----------



## sandc

The-Deceived said:


> She would have to sign a sworn statement admitting infidelity. Wonder if she'll do it...


That's a dumb requirement. Most cheaters are not going to admit to that.


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> If you do want to go that route better to try to get her to go for it it sooner while she's still remorseful and in shock as opposed to later when she most likely won't be as much of either.


Good call.


----------



## The-Deceived

sandc said:


> That's a dumb requirement. Most cheaters are not going to admit to that.


Who knows. I have a text log where she admits it...


----------



## Hope1964

Is it going to matter if you have to wait a year? Will it hinder your detachment or anything?


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Is it going to matter if you have to wait a year? Will it hinder your detachment or anything?


The sooner the better. If I have to wait, I have to wait. But I'd like it done asap. Clean break.


----------



## Hope1964

Well, it can't hurt to ask her to sign something then.

How're the kids doing?


----------



## Shaggy

She blew 45k last time. How much is she going to blow and snort this time?

Be very careful here.

Remember you aren't loosing you family. You still have your kids and family. What you are loosing is a cheating coke head.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> Well, it can't hurt to ask her to sign something then.
> 
> How're the kids doing?


The kids are OK - my son got sick. My daughter is really emotional and insecure, frightened. I'm just going to make sure all the time I have with them (50/50 custody) is good quality time.

She's full of regret and can't believe what she's done, but she's accepting it. She's scared. Never lived alone. She went from her mom's place to living with me. She said it hurts, but she knows I made the right decision for myself.

Indeed. Bring on chapter 2!

Now to figure out how I will afford child support...


----------



## The-Deceived

Shaggy said:


> She blew 45k last time. How much is she going to blow and snort this time?
> 
> Be very careful here.
> 
> Remember you aren't loosing you family. You still have your kids and family. What you are loosing is a cheating coke head.


Well, she's even quit drinking. She says she lost everything but her kids, and that's all she has now, and she's going to live to be the best mom she can. Not a lot of time for partying - she'll be working a lot to make ends meet. No more giving up shifts to go f*ck posom and do blow. 

Hopefully this is the wake up call she needs.

Either way, good riddance.


----------



## keko

The-Deceived said:


> Well, she's even quit drinking. She says she lost everything but her kids, and that's all she has now, and she's going to live to be the best mom she can. Not a lot of time for partying - she'll be working a lot to make ends meet. No more giving up shifts to go f*ck posom and do blow.


----------



## The-Deceived

keko said:


>


LOL. Not buying it, hey?


----------



## keko

The-Deceived said:


> LOL. Not buying it, hey?


Nope!


----------



## spudster

I don't buy it either. She's playing nicey nicey for now because she knows you hold all the cards. She is a self-destructive addict. No way she is going to be able to stay on the straight and narrow, especially if she has mental issues which she clearly has.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

If you have 50-50 custody, why would you have to pay child support?

I'm glad the kids are ok. This will be hard on them - stay tuned in to them and make sure they get to talk to someone if you have any inkling they need it.

I hope your stbx really is turning over a new leaf, but I'm skeptical too. If she's still sober and clean and sorry in a couple of years, than maybe.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> If you have 50-50 custody, why would you have to pay child support?
> 
> I'm glad the kids are ok. This will be hard on them - stay tuned in to them and make sure they get to talk to someone if you have any inkling they need it.
> 
> I hope your stbx really is turning over a new leaf, but I'm skeptical too. If she's still sober and clean and sorry in a couple of years, than maybe.


It's based on income. On paper she makes $13k a year. I make over $100k. There's an actual Alberta government calculator where you enter your income and it pops out a number. I'll have to pay her $1200 a month. Not sure how I'm gonna do it.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

The-Deceived said:


> It's based on income. On paper she makes $13k a year. I make over $100k. There's an actual Alberta government calculator where you enter your income and it pops out a number. I'll have to pay her $1200 a month. Not sure how I'm gonna do it.


I'm here in Connecticut. Same thing here. Except I like your calculator better.

I'm listed for $50,000 per year and she's at $10,000 per year and I pay $228 per week for 2 kids. My oldest turns 16 this year...had to root for your kids to get older but 18 can't come soon enough.

PS yes, it's joint custody.


----------



## The-Deceived

Dad&Hubby said:


> I'm here in Connecticut. Same thing here. Except I like your calculator better.
> 
> I'm listed for $50,000 per year and she's at $10,000 per year and I pay $228 per week for 2 kids. My oldest turns 16 this year...had to root for your kids to get older but 18 can't come soon enough.
> 
> PS yes, it's joint custody.


My kids are 8 and 5.


----------



## Hope1964

The-Deceived said:


> It's based on income. On paper she makes $13k a year. I make over $100k. There's an actual Alberta government calculator where you enter your income and it pops out a number. I'll have to pay her $1200 a month. Not sure how I'm gonna do it.


I know, but isn't that only when one parent has full custody?? 

You should try for full custody, you know. Have you talked to a lawyer yet?


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> I know, but isn't that only when one parent has full custody??
> 
> You should try for full custody, you know. Have you talked to a lawyer yet?


Even with 50/50 custody this is the case. What a crock of sh*t. She decimates the contract, but I'm still on the hook? Unreal. Infidelity should automatically null and void all aspects of the marriage contract.

She is trying hard to go straight, so I want to give her a chance to be a good mom (50/50). If she goes off the rails again, I will sue for full custody.


----------



## terrence4159

wow that sucks, i have 50/50 with my XW and i pay nothing, never did. i now have him more 5 nights to her 2 but paper work says 50/50


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> Even with 50/50 custody this is the case. What a crock of sh*t. She decimates the contract, but I'm still on the hook? Unreal. Infidelity should automatically null and void all aspects of the marriage contract.
> 
> She is trying hard to go straight, so I want to give her a chance to be a good mom (50/50). If she goes off the rails again, I will sue for full custody.


I'm telling you, I really think that marriage in today's times is just not good for men. Financially anyway. I'm glad to see more and more men (younger anyway) saying **** it instead of risking financial ruin due to a marriage gone South.


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> I'm telling you, I really think that marriage in today's times is just not good for men. Financially anyway. I'm glad to see more and more men (younger anyway) saying **** it instead of risking financial ruin due to a marriage gone South.


Agreed. Financial ruin and cheating. What's the point?


----------



## The-Deceived

terrence4159 said:


> wow that sucks, i have 50/50 with my XW and i pay nothing, never did. i now have him more 5 nights to her 2 but paper work says 50/50


Yup. If you're a man and you make money, bend over (worked for my stbxw  )


----------



## Shaggy

You might be able to go after the 45k if you can show it was used to pay for the affair.


----------



## Hope1964

You're being way too nice by giving her a chance at 50-50 custody. And yeah, that 45k should be deducted from any child support you do end up owing.

I don't think it matters if you're married or not when there's kids involved - you still have to pay child support if you split. When I kicked my husband out he saw a lawyer and was told he'd owe child support on my kids from my first marriage too. 

It's not that cut and dried, though, when it comes to kids - the kids don't deserve to be penalized monetarily. There should be some kind of way for the kids to get the money but the cheating lying drug addict mothers NOT to.


----------



## The-Deceived

It's crazy, living with someone and defending them, being loyal to them for so many years, trusting them. Every day I see her more and more for what she is...a liar and a manipulator. Family and friends coming out and telling me things, me seeing her for what she really is. 

She's a pathological liar and manipulator. And it's still woe is me. Gaslighting. 

I saw her today when we did the crossover with the kids. My love for her is dead. Completely. I see an entirely different person now.

In a lot of ways I feel so stupid for not seeing it. Especially when so many others did. But I was loyal and protective of my wife. She is a very damaged person. And not a good person.

I can't believe I was so blind for so many years...I'm still stunned and bewildered by all of this. She is an awful, awful person.


----------



## Jasel

?????

What's been going on??


----------



## Aunt Ava

It's incredible what a difference removing the "love goggles" makes. It's truly horrible that disloyal spouses can lie, cheat and destroy families and then be rewarded by the courts with generous settlements and custody. There really should be a "cheaters penalty" when divorcing.


----------



## SaltInWound

Aunt Ava said:


> There really should be a "cheaters penalty" when divorcing.


How about cut out their tongue so that after they are released back into the dating pool, they can be identified.


----------



## Rags

SaltInWound said:


> How about cut out their tongue so that after they are released back into the dating pool, they can be identified.


Brand them, with a scarlet letter?


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> ?????
> 
> What's been going on??


I ended the R and I am divorcing her.


----------



## The-Deceived

Aunt Ava said:


> It's incredible what a difference removing the "love goggles" makes. It's truly horrible that disloyal spouses can lie, cheat and destroy families and then be rewarded by the courts with generous settlements and custody. There really should be a "cheaters penalty" when divorcing.


Excellent analogy - love goggles. They're off and things have totally changed. My love for her is at Zero.

I know. She can break the vow of being faithful, but I'm still on the hook to support her? Unreal.


----------



## The-Deceived

SaltInWound said:


> How about cut out their tongue so that after they are released back into the dating pool, they can be identified.


And will also have a difficult time sucking POSOM'sD


----------



## spudster

How about we start pressing lazy municipalities to start enforcing adultery laws that are still on the books?

In many if not most states adultery is still a crime.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

He's in Alberta.


----------



## spudster

Hope1964 said:


> He's in Alberta.


I'm answering a general question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

spudster said:


> How about we start pressing lazy municipalities to start enforcing adultery laws that are still on the books?
> 
> In many if not most states adultery is still a crime.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is here in South Carolina. SC isn't an adultery friendly state at all.

Of course, that's about the only that's _not_ wrong with this state.


----------



## The-Deceived

STBXW still texts me every day. Then she'll text "Ok Ill leave you alone for today". Then she keeps texting. Unless they're specifically about the kids or a logistical matter with the separation, I don't answer.


----------



## The-Deceived

On a positive note, work is sending me to Austin for SXSW next weekend for several days. A music, technology and film conference. And apparently one mother of a big party. I could use a little fun.


----------



## Numbersixxx

Jasel said:


> I'm telling you, I really think that marriage in today's times is just not good for men. Financially anyway. I'm glad to see more and more men (younger anyway) saying **** it instead of risking financial ruin due to a marriage gone South.


But there are still more than enough naive suckers that fall for the promes of "happily ever after". The red pill is hard to swallow. What's even more sad is that there is almost no political will to change those blatantly unfair marriage laws, starting with alimony. Not getting married is the only rational choice for men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars

The-Deceived said:


> On a positive note, work is sending me to Austin for SXSW next weekend for several days. A music, technology and film conference. And apparently one mother of a big party. I could use a little fun.


You *WILL LOVE IT*. Really. Lots of live bands, parties, techie stuff, a real blast. You're in for a treat. My son is exhibiting his film Saturday and next week. I hope you have hotel reservations made already 'cause there ain't none to be had.


----------



## spudster

Austin is a great town. I've had some good times there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

walkonmars said:


> You *WILL LOVE IT*. Really. Lots of live bands, parties, techie stuff, a real blast. You're in for a treat. My son is exhibiting his film Saturday and next week. I hope you have hotel reservations made already 'cause there ain't none to be had.


That's fantastic! You must be proud. Yup - I got me a 2 bed hotel room 10 minutes away. 1 of 2 left. There's NO vacancy now.

I'm pretty stoked. Bringing my Baby Taylor acoustic guitar.


----------



## The-Deceived

Gotta get me a pic with the Stevie Ray Vaughan statue!


----------



## spudster

The-Deceived said:


> Gotta get me a pic with the Stevie Ray Vaughan statue!


Oh hell yeah!


----------



## MrQuatto

Visit the statehouse in austin if you have time. Really cool old and grand building


----------



## The-Deceived

The past couple days have been much better for me. I am able to kybosh the mind movies and the pain, because it is fading, as my feelings for her are. They less I care about her, the easier this becomes. There's still a LONG road and lots of ups and downs. But I woke up happy and excited about life today.

My folks keep telling me how amazing it's going to be when I find a good woman. They are really excited for me. To live life again...not live life appeasing stbxww, never doing anything for fear of making her think I was cheating (when SHE was - unreal). 

The anger is melting away as well - because I'm not with her. I can't change what happened, I can only look to the future. A future without her as my wife.


----------



## Madman1

Wow, just finished this thread. Td I so glad you handeled it the way you did, your a good man, going and talking to her instead of going dark.
Not gonna rehash details, Im just gonna keep it positive here, and I glad you feel your decision is working out, heres hoping for the best for your kids

Have a great time at that festival!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

Madman1 said:


> Wow, just finished this thread. Td I so glad you handeled it the way you did, your a good man, going and talking to her instead of going dark.
> Not gonna rehash details, Im just gonna keep it positive here, and I glad you feel your decision is working out, heres hoping for the best for your kids
> 
> Have a great time at that festival!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks madman!


----------



## See_Listen_Love

The-Deceived said:


> ....
> 
> I do believe we have what it takes to come out of this stronger, closer. I need to make changes too. She said the turning point was a few months back when she came to me with a list of things she needed from me. 1. Flowers once in a while 2. More affection/attention 3. Help around the house. Because I was resentful of the cheating accusations, I said no. I wouldn't do those things. She said that's when she turned away.
> 
> ....


Is there nothing in the above that can make you step over your own hurt?

I don't know of anybody who would turn his back on his wife like that and expect her to stay.... I think you kind of got (unwillingly) what you asked for. 

So your hurt is maybe also because of your own (lack of) actions?

The way your married life was organized is a kind of setup for this whole situation. While the cheating is her fault, the whole setup is your both responsibility.


----------



## Subi

See_Listen_Love said:


> Is there nothing in the above that can make you step over your own hurt?
> 
> I don't know of anybody who would turn his back on his wife like that and expect her to stay.... I think you kind of got (unwillingly) what you asked for.
> 
> So your hurt is maybe also because of your own (lack of) actions?
> 
> The way your married life was organized is a kind of setup for this whole situation. While the cheating is her fault, the whole setup is your both responsibility.


It was all handled the wrong way. Wife wanted to use her infidelity (outcomes) as a bargaining tool. I dont think you should blame Decieved. The onus was on his wife to do the hard work and once that was up and running, then she would come in and say but it would make a whole lotta difference if you did this and this and this. Not to use it as a bargaining tool but to repair her damage and then see what comes out of it


----------



## Jasel

Subi said:


> It was all handled the wrong way. Wife wanted to use her infidelity (outcomes) as a bargaining tool. I dont think you should blame Decieved. The onus was on his wife to do the hard work and once that was up and running, then she would come in and say but it would make a whole lotta difference if you did this and this and this. Not to use it as a bargaining tool but to repair her damage and then see what comes out of it


I can kind of see where SLL is coming from with that though. Honestly when I first read what TD said his wife requested of him and his response was to not only to say no but basically kick her out of the house I have to admit I felt pretty sorry for his wife. It sounds like the cheating came afterwards (at least that's how I read it), not that it was justified by any means. 

My best friend basically pulled the same thing on his girlfriend of 4 years (ie: She tells him explicity what she wants and needs more of in the relationship, what she feels she's not getting enough of (and it was nothing unreasonable IMO), he basically tells her no and to deal with what she's getting, lo and behold she cheats on him and finds someone else).

And I do give women props when they truthfully say what they want and need because more often than not women won't say what they want or even if there's a problem because they don't want to rock the boat or hurt their s/o's feelings. Then they just build up frustrations and resentments when they're not getting it.


----------



## The-Deceived

See_Listen_Love said:


> Is there nothing in the above that can make you step over your own hurt?
> 
> I don't know of anybody who would turn his back on his wife like that and expect her to stay.... I think you kind of got (unwillingly) what you asked for.
> 
> So your hurt is maybe also because of your own (lack of) actions?
> 
> The way your married life was organized is a kind of setup for this whole situation. While the cheating is her fault, the whole setup is your both responsibility.


There isn't, and again I'll qualify why I reacted the way I did when she asked me for those things. I spent 15 years being 110% devoted to my wife. Constantly defending myself against cheating accusations. I gave up my social life. I couldn't even go to a work function after 5 because it would be 2 days of accusations and nastiness. If I was 2 minutes past 6 getting home, sh*t would hit the fan. I was so f*cking patient and understanding. I did everything in my power to put her mind at ease...to no avail. I stopped going out to make music. I ditched my friends. I let her sleep all weekend while I looked after the kids. All my time was 100% accounted for - and I STILL was a cheater in her eyes. It was awful.

At the time she asked me for those things I was angry, frustrated and not willing to be a doormat any more. I was emotionally exhausted and resentful.

I was 100% faithful to my wife for 15 years. Not ONE slip. Not one. I simply wasn't willing to do any more, because no matter what I did or didn't do, it wasn't enough.

She told me she resented my career. She didn't want to share me with my family.

She suffocated me and badgered me endlessly about things that just weren't happening. A guy can only stand that so long.

I loved her, protected her, defended her, supported her and did everything I could to tame the beast that lived inside her.

Then she leaves me via text, on my daughter's birthday, and eventually admits to f*cking a hells angel for 6 months.

She has found a place to live, starting April 1. We are on good terms and she is still doing right by the kids. Even as recently as last night, she was texting me, wanting to come home. I didn't answer.

I am free. It's gonna be hard. It's gonna be expensive. It's gonna be painful.

But, I am happy. And my conscience is clear.

I'm just back from SXSW in Austin. It was a very healing trip for me. I let go of a lot of anger, and have started to forgive. But I do not want her as my wife. I am living my life again. My children have a father who is more present now. I am still a friend to my stbxw. We are working together. She is still so very sorry, and I see how wounded she is - it's in her eyes...it's right there.

But she was right from the start of this - I am not a man who can ever get past infidelity. I don't want to be married to someone who would cause my children and me so much pain.

She sees what she threw away, and she hates herself for it.

I can forgive, but we will never reconcile.

I deserve better. I deserved better.


----------



## Hope1964

You're back


----------



## sandc

And NOW, you'll finally get her respect. Best of luck on your new life.


----------



## The-Deceived

Hope1964 said:


> You're back


I am, and I apologized to Annie in the other thread.


----------



## The-Deceived

sandc said:


> And NOW, you'll finally get her respect. Best of luck on your new life.


Funny how that works, isn't it?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

The-Deceived said:


> Gotta get me a pic with the Stevie Ray Vaughan statue!


 SRV was the best concert I'd ever been to and I got paid to watch him(security). A small place called E.M. lowes in Mass.. The best guitarist that ever lived IMHO.


----------



## The-Deceived

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> SRV was the best concert I'd ever been to and I got paid to watch him(security). A small place called E.M. lowes in Mass.. The best guitarist that ever lived IMHO.


Truth! And here I am with his glorious statue. Please excuse my shirtlessness...I'm Canadian and it was damn hot!


----------



## The-Deceived

It was a really emotional and beautiful experience. Sounds silly, but I sat at his side and cried. Then went to the hotel, watched a documentary on him and cried some more. He changed my life forever...


----------



## The-Deceived

I'm feeling sorry for her. But is this just more of the me me me?

From her (P is her bio dad):

Maybe one day I'll sleep again. I need you to tell me it's going to be ok? Please, this day just gets more sad by the moment. I hate leaving my kids, I hate all this guilt that's eating me alive. I'm trying so hard to be strong Aaron. But I'm not, I'm a frightened little girl who's lost in the dark.... It's to much. God, sorry... Not your problem. 

I'm so alone.

I wish I had a time machine and could know all I do now and I could go back a year and get some help and make us a priority. But who knows, maybe the damage was done, years of my insecurities pushed you away. I made my worst fear come true...why? Why would somebody do that. I think I may hunt P down and run him over with my car like 25 times. 

He really messed me up Aaron. I don't want to be this way, I never did. This hell I live in is not fun...
What's wrong with me? Why did he throw me away? I'm a mess... 
Sorry going on and on... See you tonight. I'll try not to cry ok! Xo

Your the only man who ever loved me....or ever will. I never deserved you.

I'm so sorry.


----------



## spudster

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> SRV was the best concert I'd ever been to and I got paid to watch him(security). A small place called E.M. lowes in Mass.. The best guitarist that ever lived IMHO.


And Double Trouble was the best rhythm section that ever existed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spudster

The-Deceived said:


> I'm feeling sorry for her. But is this just more of the me me me?
> 
> From her (P is her bio dad):
> 
> Maybe one day I'll sleep again. I need you to tell me it's going to be ok? Please, this day just gets more sad by the moment. I hate leaving my kids, I hate all this guilt that's eating me alive. I'm trying so hard to be strong Aaron. But I'm not, I'm a frightened little girl who's lost in the dark.... It's to much. God, sorry... Not your problem.
> 
> I'm so alone.
> 
> I wish I had a time machine and could know all I do now and I could go back a year and get some help and make us a priority. But who knows, maybe the damage was done, years of my insecurities pushed you away. I made my worst fear come true...why? Why would somebody do that. I think I may hunt P down and run him over with my car like 25 times.
> 
> He really messed me up Aaron. I don't want to be this way, I never did. This hell I live in is not fun...
> What's wrong with me? Why did he throw me away? I'm a mess...
> Sorry going on and on... See you tonight. I'll try not to cry ok! Xo
> 
> Your the only man who ever loved me....or ever will. I never deserved you.
> 
> I'm so sorry.


She's wondering why he threw her away????!!! She's asking you?

Oh man is she messed up!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

spudster said:


> And Double Trouble was the best rhythm section that ever existed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WORD!! Power house.


----------



## The-Deceived

spudster said:


> She's wondering why he threw her away????!!! She's asking you?
> 
> Oh man is she messed up!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She sure is. And still relying and leaning on me 100%. She sees this is really happening (her moving out). I think she still thinks I'm going to say let's try again.


----------



## The-Deceived

Severing the tie is not going to be easy...and I can't just say f*ck it, because she's the mother of my children.

Blarghhh


----------



## spudster

So the only reason she stopped the affair was because he dumped her. Had he not she would still be cheating with him. 

She's still emotionally attached to the OM. And she looks to you as her daddy....there to guide her through her pain of rejection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Man there isn't enough Heinz 57 in the world to make this sh!tburger taste any better. I feel so bad for you bro.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

The-Deceived said:


> I'm feeling sorry for her. But is this just more of the me me me?
> 
> From her (P is her bio dad):
> 
> Maybe one day *I'll* sleep again. *I need* you to tell me it's going to be ok? Please, this day just gets more sad by the moment. *I hate* leaving my kids, *I hate* all this guilt that's eating me alive. *I'm trying* so hard to be strong Aaron. But I'm not, *I'm a frightened little girl* who's lost in the dark.... It's to much. God, sorry... Not your problem.
> 
> *I'm so alone.*
> 
> *I wish* I had a time machine and could know all I do now and I could go back a year and get some help and make us a priority. But who knows, maybe the damage was done, years of my insecurities pushed you away. I made *my worst fear* come true...why? Why would somebody do that. I think I may hunt P down and run him over with my car like 25 times.
> 
> He really messed me up Aaron. *I don't want* to be this way, I never did. *This hell I live in is not fun*...
> What's wrong with *me*? Why did he throw *me *away? *I'm a mess...*
> Sorry going on and on... See you tonight. I'll try not to cry ok! Xo
> 
> Your the only man who ever loved me....or ever will. I never deserved you.
> 
> I'm so sorry.


At least she finally had a thought for you at the end of that it seems.



> God, sorry... Not your problem.


And at least she got something else right.


----------



## sandc

The-Deceived said:


> What's wrong with me? Why did *he *throw me away? I'm a mess...
> Sorry going on and on... See you tonight. I'll try not to cry ok!


:wtf: :scratchhead: 

He who? He you or he OM? If "he" is OM then she's sad that he didn't want her and used her for sex and is just sad her "plan B" tossed her out on her keister. She sad because she misses HIM! And now she doesn't have a fallback plan. Boo hoo.

If "he" is you, then she already knows why.

You're right, that text was more her, her, her. You can feel sorry for her if you want. Canada is still a free country.


----------



## Jasel

sandc said:


> :wtf: :scratchhead:
> 
> He who? He you or he OM? If "he" is OM then she's sad that he didn't want her and used her for sex and is just sad her "plan B" tossed her out on her keister. She sad because she misses HIM! And now she doesn't have a fallback plan. Boo hoo.
> 
> If "he" is you, then she already knows why.


I think she was referring to her biological father.


----------



## The-Deceived

Yes, "he" is her bio dad.


----------



## The-Deceived

spudster said:


> So the only reason she stopped the affair was because he dumped her. Had he not she would still be cheating with him.
> 
> She's still emotionally attached to the OM. And she looks to you as her daddy....there to guide her through her pain of rejection.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, she's not. She hates him and hasn't seen him in months. He lives far away and is banned from where she works, at her request.

I read her facebook messages to friends. She truly hates his guts and can't believe she went for him. But she did, so...


----------



## bandit.45

Okay...I didn't make the connection about her bio dad. I guess that makes sense....I guess. 

Anyway...she's seriously certifiable. You're smart to divorce her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old_soldier

The-Deceived said:


> I'm feeling sorry for her. But is this just more of the me me me?
> 
> From her (P is her bio dad):
> 
> Maybe one day I'll sleep again. I need you to tell me it's going to be ok? Please, this day just gets more sad by the moment. I hate leaving my kids, I hate all this guilt that's eating me alive. I'm trying so hard to be strong Aaron. But I'm not, I'm a frightened little girl who's lost in the dark.... It's to much. God, sorry... Not your problem.
> 
> I'm so alone.
> 
> I wish I had a time machine and could know all I do now and I could go back a year and get some help and make us a priority. But who knows, maybe the damage was done, years of my insecurities pushed you away. I made my worst fear come true...why? Why would somebody do that. I think I may hunt P down and run him over with my car like 25 times.
> 
> He really messed me up Aaron. I don't want to be this way, I never did. This hell I live in is not fun...
> What's wrong with me? Why did he throw me away? I'm a mess...
> Sorry going on and on... See you tonight. I'll try not to cry ok! Xo
> 
> Your the only man who ever loved me....or ever will. I never deserved you.
> 
> I'm so sorry.


Just tell her "When you chose the behaviour, you chose the consequences"

She is right about one thing though, she did not deserve you.

Hang in there brother, 

"I'm pullin' for you brother, we're all in this together" -Red Green-


----------



## MrQuatto

The-Deceived said:


> I'm feeling sorry for her. But is this just more of the me me me?
> 
> From her (P is her bio dad):
> 
> Maybe one day I'll sleep again. I need you to tell me it's going to be ok? Please, this day just gets more sad by the moment. I hate leaving my kids, I hate all this guilt that's eating me alive. I'm trying so hard to be strong Aaron. But I'm not, I'm a frightened little girl who's lost in the dark.... It's to much. God, sorry... Not your problem.
> 
> I'm so alone.
> 
> I wish I had a time machine and could know all I do now and I could go back a year and get some help and make us a priority. But who knows, maybe the damage was done, years of my insecurities pushed you away. I made my worst fear come true...why? Why would somebody do that. I think I may hunt P down and run him over with my car like 25 times.
> 
> He really messed me up Aaron. I don't want to be this way, I never did. This hell I live in is not fun...
> What's wrong with me? Why did he throw me away? I'm a mess...
> Sorry going on and on... See you tonight. I'll try not to cry ok! Xo
> 
> Your the only man who ever loved me....or ever will. I never deserved you.
> 
> I'm so sorry.


Man, that is one serious guilt trip there.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

The-Deceived said:


> There isn't, and again I'll qualify why I reacted the way I did when she asked me for those things. I spent 15 years being 110% devoted to my wife. C_onstantly defending myself against cheating accusations. I gave up my social life. I couldn't even go to a work function after 5 because it would be 2 days of accusations and nastiness. If I was 2 minutes past 6 getting home, sh*t would hit the fan. I was so f*cking patient and understanding. I did everything in my power to put her mind at ease...to no avail. I stopped going out to make music. I ditched my friends. I let her sleep all weekend while I looked after the kids._ All my time was 100% accounted for - and I STILL was a cheater in her eyes. It was awful.
> 
> At the time she asked me for those things I was angry, frustrated and not willing to be a doormat any more. I was emotionally exhausted and resentful.
> 
> I was 100% faithful to my wife for 15 years. Not ONE slip. Not one. I simply wasn't willing to do any more, because no matter what I did or didn't do, it wasn't enough.
> 
> _She told me she resented my career. She didn't want to share me with my family.
> 
> She suffocated me and badgered me endlessly about things that just weren't happening. A guy can only stand that so long._
> 
> I loved her, protected her, defended her, supported her and did everything I could to tame the beast that lived inside her.
> 
> Then she leaves me via text, on my daughter's birthday, and eventually admits to f*cking a hells angel for 6 months.
> 
> She has found a place to live, starting April 1. We are on good terms and she is still doing right by the kids. Even as recently as last night, she was texting me, wanting to come home. I didn't answer.
> 
> I am free. It's gonna be hard. It's gonna be expensive. It's gonna be painful.
> 
> But, I am happy. And my conscience is clear.
> 
> I'm just back from SXSW in Austin. It was a very healing trip for me. I let go of a lot of anger, and have started to forgive. But I do not want her as my wife. I am living my life again. My children have a father who is more present now. I am still a friend to my stbxw. We are working together. She is still so very sorry, and I see how wounded she is - it's in her eyes...it's right there.
> 
> But she was right from the start of this - I am not a man who can ever get past infidelity. I don't want to be married to someone who would cause my children and me so much pain.
> 
> She sees what she threw away, and she hates herself for it.
> 
> I can forgive, but we will never reconcile.
> 
> I deserve better. I deserved better.


Well TD, I'm sorry for you it was that bad. I see she has (had) a kind of mental disorder. This was bad.

You are free now.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

The-D, SRV's statue and mamorial... To me it's hallowed ground.

I was cheated on by my ex, bad, but what's happened to you is so painful - I'm just amazed how you've been able to handle it. Better then I could ever imagine myself doing. My hat's off to you.


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Okay...I didn't make the connection about her bio dad. I guess that makes sense....I guess.
> 
> Anyway...she's seriously certifiable. You're smart to divorce her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Man, I see that more and more every day.


----------



## The-Deceived

old_soldier said:


> Just tell her "When you chose the behaviour, you chose the consequences"
> 
> She is right about one thing though, she did not deserve you.
> 
> Hang in there brother,
> 
> "I'm pullin' for you brother, we're all in this together" -Red Green-


Thanks brother.


----------



## The-Deceived

MrQuatto said:


> Man, that is one serious guilt trip there.


I have to turn off my sympathy and remember - she is a manipulator. That is a guilt trip, isn't it? Man, she never lets up.


----------



## The-Deceived

See_Listen_Love said:


> Well TD, I'm sorry for you it was that bad. I see she has (had) a kind of mental disorder. This was bad.
> 
> You are free now.


Thank you. Once again, since we've been apart, people have been telling me I have "come to life". It's remarkable. 

I hope this continues, but my kids seem really happy, when they're with me anyway. 

Is it bad to be excited to get divorced?


----------



## The-Deceived

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> The-D, SRV's statue and mamorial... To me it's hallowed ground.
> 
> I was cheated on by my ex, bad, but what's happened to you is so painful - I'm just amazed how you've been able to handle it. Better then I could ever imagine myself doing. My hat's off to you.


It is to me too brother.

Well thank you, I have no real reference point for how this affects other people. Without question it's the most intense, heavy and painful thing I've been through. But it's also incredibly cathartic, eye opening and positive in so many ways. It's just astounding to me that people see me changing for the better.

I would've gone to my grave being married to that woman, putting up with her accusations and mistrust, defending her honor, loving her and supporting her. And I would've remained faithful. I did for 15 years and never even came close to cheating. But she made it possible for me to walk away with my integrity intact. And I gave an honest shot at R. I wanted it to work. I wanted to keep my family intact. But this is better for me, and better for my babies.

I have today off, so going to get the kids at noon, take them for rotten ronnie's and let them play at the play area there. Maybe take them bowling...they bring me such joy. They crack me up and just beam with love. I'm a lucky man.


----------



## The-Deceived

Still getting "I love you" texts and more. She's not eating, she's not sleeping...

A 6 month affair. What did she think was going to happen? 

Cheaters make the choice.


----------



## Acabado

Continued healing The-Deceived. You are going to be OK.


----------



## spudster

The-Deceived said:


> Still getting "I love you" texts and more. She's not eating, she's not sleeping...
> 
> A 6 month affair. What did she think was going to happen?
> 
> Cheaters make the choice.


Tell her "Yeah....so? Take what you're going through now and multiply it times 100. That's what I went through when you told me you had been giving yourself freely as a piece of meat to a biker puke for six months."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calvin

Hope your doink ok TD,reading your thread is rough.My situation is different.
I could'nt imagine going through what you are.
You're a strong dude,you'll make it through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carpenoctem

T-D:

Throughout my life, I have felt sadness / vicarious regret every time I heard about a divorce.

But after I started coming to TAM, I have so often felt GLAD / relieved that some divorces are taking place (as though they are at last setting themselves free from a toxic bondage), and SAD / ANGRY that some people just would not divorce (as though they willingly choose a sentence for diminished life - of course, for their own reasons).



I am glad you are moving away from a situation that will be punitive / toxic for you, even if it will cause you loss and stress in the immediate phase.

Best of luck.


----------



## spudster

Yeah the short term hurts like hell. 

But the long term payoff is sweeeeet. You're going to be better than okay Decieved. Your life is very soon going to improve in so many ways, that you will look back on this time and wonder "Was that really my life? Was I really that person? Never again!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Sometimes I think life is only to be lived to learn lessons and become wiser.

But some you see not learning anything at all, 

And some you see crumble under the pressure of bad things.

So who knows what to think of the purpose of life.

I think you are one of the lucky ones that has the pain of learning AND the gain of learning to find something better


----------



## The-Deceived

spudster said:


> Tell her "Yeah....so? Take what you're going through now and multiply it times 100. That's what I went through when you told me you had been giving yourself freely as a piece of meat to a biker puke for six months."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No ****. Woe is her.


----------



## The-Deceived

calvin said:


> Hope your doink ok TD,reading your thread is rough.My situation is different.
> I could'nt imagine going through what you are.
> You're a strong dude,you'll make it through this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Calvin. I'm pretty good. Getting ready to do the change over (she takes the kids until Wednesday) and Im not looking forward to seeing her.


----------



## The-Deceived

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> T-D:
> 
> Throughout my life, I have felt sadness / vicarious regret every time I heard about a divorce.
> 
> But after I started coming to TAM, I have so often felt GLAD / relieved that some divorces are taking place (as though they are at last setting themselves free from a toxic bondage), and SAD / ANGRY that some people just would not divorce (as though they willingly choose a sentence for diminished life - of course, for their own reasons).
> 
> I am glad you are moving away from a situation that will be punitive / toxic for you, even if it will cause you loss and stress in the immediate phase.
> 
> Best of luck.


Thank you.


----------



## The-Deceived

spudster said:


> Yeah the short term hurts like hell.
> 
> But the long term payoff is sweeeeet. You're going to be better than okay Decieved. Your life is very soon going to improve in so many ways, that you will look back on this time and wonder "Was that really my life? Was I really that person? Never again!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope you're right. I think you are.


----------



## The-Deceived

See_Listen_Love said:


> Sometimes I think life is only to be lived to learn lessons and become wiser.
> 
> But some you see not learning anything at all,
> 
> And some you see crumble under the pressure of bad things.
> 
> So who knows what to think of the purpose of life.
> 
> I think you are one of the lucky ones that has the pain of learning AND the gain of learning to find something better


----------



## calvin

Just stay the course you're on TD,sorry but I don't see how she deserves you.Way too much damage.
Your doing the right thing here,it sucks bad but you will make it and find someone who knows what real love is all about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

calvin said:


> Just stay the course you're on TD,sorry but I don't see how she deserves you.Way too much damage.
> Your doing the right thing here,it sucks bad but you will make it and find someone who knows what real love is all about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Calvin!


----------



## The-Deceived

She has found a place and is moving out April 1. I am STOKED.

I've taken back my house. Put all my guitars up in the living room (6), taken down all her photos and books and turned the living room into a music haven. My kids are digging it.

However I am not free from her bullsh*t drama. Yesterday (Sunday) is the day she takes the kids (until Wednesday - when I get them until Sunday afternoon). She's at her scumbag bar working an afternoon shift and texts me that she's going to be late because her replacement hasn't shown up. I had a date planned. Somehow this turned into a rant and guilt trip on me.

Check this bs out:

-Does that make you late for something? I'll just walk off the floor...****

-This is an awesome rock and hard place!!! 

-I can't risk you freaking out at me either!

Me: I won't freak out, just hope it's not a regular occurrence.

-I'm in tears...


-You already ****ing hate me... 

-*Once a loser waitress always a loser waitress hey!* Walking off the floor... Hauling ass ok? Sorry

Me: I don't hate you. I'm not even mad N. Hugs when u get here, k? Don't haul, just be careful.

-Don't hug me, *I don't deserve love, that's my reality*.. Just go

Me: Calm down N.

-I can't! You won't talk to me, and now I'm causing problems in your social life, *I'm trying so hard Aaron, it's just never going to be enough*

-You must be so happy to be free of me hey? 

-Dans doing my cash out, but he won't let me drive till I chill out. *Crying in a bathroom stall!! *

Me: We're ALL doing our best. This isn't just hard on you. See you when I see you.

-I'm only working these retarded hours so that you don't have to give me so much money...I really am doing my very best Aaron. Dan is making me have a beer to chill then he will give me my keys ok. You won't be late...don't worry! 

-*Not talking to me again...wonderfu*l 

Me: Seriously. It's still all about N. You have to deal with the consequences of your actions. I'm done with your guilt trips.

-This is not a guilt trip Aaron, I'm panicking because I don't want this to be hard on you

-*All I want is you to be happy*

-I just feel like utter ****.. Leaving in 5

-Scared to come home, yay

-You scare me Aaron 

Me: No reason to be scared. I've been kind to you. But your work issues can't become mine. And when you freak out like that its directed at me. Just come here and take care of your kids. They need you strong.

-*Trying not to hate myself* Aaron, but I really do

-*I'll never be happy, that's hard* 

-It's ****ed really. *I very little faith in this life. I'll be broken forever.... Have a ton of fun. Hope she's nice* . 

-Happy? That means nothing to me

-*Happiness is not in the cards for me Aaron*

-*I worked so hard for this "life" BS. And in the end it means nothing...*

-Some people aren't meant to be happy.... I'm learning to deal with that. *There is something about me that is unlovable...* 

Me: We both worked hard N. It meant EVERYTHING N. But you have it away...to a true piece of ****. I would've remained devoted to you forever. You chose your own path...


Me: I loved you completely. You gave it to that piece of **** at the first sign of attention he showed u. Your choice. Not mine.

Me: I loved u, and u ****ing KNOW it.

Me: I loved you and was devoted to you. 100%. It wasn't enough for u.

-It was not about him, he is nothing. I loved you, *I worked so hard for your love. Not many will work that hard Aaron, your going to find that out.* I'm so sorry my issues broke me... I never wanted that. It's hard to feel like nothing.... The rest if my life 

Me: Your issues...free will N. You chose him over me. My god. 

Will it make you feel Better for me to hate myself forever? 

-I could go into all the ways our marriage was unhealthy waaaay before Kevin walked back into my life. But I refuse to do that. *I'm taking all the weight of this because I love you....* 

-*But at some point if you want to get over this you may have to take some responsibly*. I know that's hard to hear right now. Remember our talks in that 10 weeks Aaron... I will take it all for you, but sit back and look. *Kevin was not the cause of this he was a byproduct of a unhappy wife....* I love you Aaron, I'm not saying this to hurt you. 

-*I worshiped you, I still do. I hope she dose. It's rare Aaron....*

-I'm a good woman that make a massive mistake in a dark time. *I felt alone... And now I know that's my destiny. Hard lesson.* I'll look for you first in my next life. You were my everything. You know in your heart that's true. I know in your pain it's real easy to put this all on me, I had the affair, your the victim. I'm the **** up, *but  step back Aaron, your not perfect, and I lived for you all those years anyway...*.

-*All I do is cry, I don't eat I don't sleep....I'm punishing myself for both of us.* You want to hate me you can. I hate me. I will never let myself be happy. Will that make this better for you? Hope so....I don't know what else I can do 
Ya right?! At a loss? Me to, ****ing hopeless. *Keep punishing myself.... Hope at some point it helps you. *

______________________________________________________

Woe is her and she is SUCH a martyr. 

Moaning about being tired because of all the "crazy hours" she's working. She JUST started working 25-30 hours a week! Before that it was 3 days. Working SO hard...part time!


----------



## sandc

I stopped reading about half way through that. What a bunch of manipulative BS. She is trying her best to make you feel sorry for her. Yes, feel sorry for her that she ripped your heart out.


----------



## The-Deceived

sandc said:


> I stopped reading about half way through that. What a bunch of manipulative BS. She is trying her best to make you feel sorry for her. Yes, feel sorry for her that she ripped your heart out.


RIGHT??? She is a complete manipulator!!! And no matter what I say to stop her, it does nothing. She just spews it out like verbal diarrhea. She cannot stop herself. 

Poor me!


----------



## ruger0304

Ok so the last part of your store mad me laught a little. Your not stupid, your still in love with this woman who has riped your heart out and still has tha power over you. yes it sucks A**. The pain will get to be less and everyone deals with things differently. Do it your way. I really dont think there is a right or wrong way. 

I have been cheated on and I know how much it hurts. I have also cheated, and know first hand how it feels to hurt someone that you really love.

If you guys a can make it work that is great, you have kids sounds like you still love each other. just know that in most cases like this you are always going to wounder what she is doing and who she is doing it with. If you think you can live with that then give it all you got. 

Take things day by day.


----------



## The-Deceived

ruger0304 said:


> Ok so the last part of your store mad me laught a little. Your not stupid, your still in love with this woman who has riped your heart out and still has tha power over you. yes it sucks A**. The pain will get to be less and everyone deals with things differently. Do it your way. I really dont think there is a right or wrong way.
> 
> I have been cheated on and I know how much it hurts. I have also cheated, and know first hand how it feels to hurt someone that you really love.
> 
> If you guys a can make it work that is great, you have kids sounds like you still love each other. just know that in most cases like this you are always going to wounder what she is doing and who she is doing it with. If you think you can live with that then give it all you got.
> 
> Take things day by day.


I don't love her and I have booted her out. She has her own place starting April 1.

I'm trying to be civil for the sake of my kids.

I cannot wait for her to be gone. And I do not miss her. I'm happy until it comes time for me to see her for the cross over of the kids. My love died a slow, painful death.


----------



## calvin

Wow Td,just fvcking wow.
My wife did fvck up and had a EA with old hs bf who did time in prison.
She even met him a couple times but didn't have sex.
She put all the blame on her and a year later is still trying her ass off.
Your soon to be x sounds like the victim,I don't hear remorse,she wants sympathy.
My wife knows she doesn't deserve it.
You're doing the right thing here,don't give in.
I know its hard.
Keep moving on man,its best for you and your kids
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

calvin said:


> Wow Td,just fvcking wow.
> My wife did fvck up and had a EA with old hs bf who did time in prison.
> She even met him a couple times but didn't have sex.
> She put all the blame on her and a year later is still trying her ass off.
> Your soon to be x sounds like the victim,I don't hear remorse,she wants sympathy.
> My wife knows she doesn't deserve it.
> You're doing the right thing here,don't give in.
> I know its hard.
> Keep moving on man,its best for you and your kids
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks bro. Ya, she's a real piece of work, ain't she?


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> Thanks bro. Ya, she's a real piece of work, ain't she?


And batshyte too. 

She sleeps hanging upside down from her closet rod bro.


----------



## Jasel

I used to feel some sympathy for your wife but I want you to give me her address so I can go on my Amazon account and buy her a violin. I mean just wow.


----------



## Acabado

The-Deceived said:


> And no matter what I say to stop her, it does nothing. She just spews it out like verbal diarrhea. She cannot stop herself.
> Poor me!


Stop engaging man. This exchange never had to happen. She told you the failed schedule you told your piece. Good buy. That's all what takes.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

"Dan is making me have a beer to chill then he will give me my keys ok."

Wow. I never felt sorry for her until I read this. Gawd, I'm amazed that you didn't say "Well when you finish drinking, could you come home here so I can do what I need to.". Dev., you are handeling this so well. I'm starting think that I can't wait for April 1st also.


----------



## warlock07

Is she in IC?


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> And batshyte too.
> 
> She sleeps hanging upside down from her closet rod bro.


LOL.


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> I used to feel some sympathy for your wife but I want you to give me her address so I can go on my Amazon account and buy her a violin. I mean just wow.


Incredible, isn't it?


----------



## The-Deceived

Acabado said:


> Stop engaging man. This exchange never had to happen. She told you the failed schedule you told your piece. Good buy. That's all what takes.


You are so right. I'm getting better at not engaging, I have nothing to gain by doing it. It just feeds the beast...


----------



## The-Deceived

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> "Dan is making me have a beer to chill then he will give me my keys ok."
> 
> Wow. I never felt sorry for her until I read this. Gawd, I'm amazed that you didn't say "Well when you finish drinking, could you come home here so I can do what I need to.". Dev., you are handeling this so well. I'm starting think that I can't wait for April 1st also.


 Thank you.

I'm REALLY looking forward to it.


----------



## The-Deceived

warlock07 said:


> Is she in IC?


Nope. She has her bar family. That's all the love and support she needs.  They "really love her".


----------



## The-Deceived

The frantic, woe is me, I'm going to lose it, I have a bleeding ulcer texts are NOT slowing down.

"I need your love Aaron, I always have. Please don't throw me away". "All I care about is your happiness".

It's just as nuts if not _worse_ than when we were together!

Now she has a bleeding ulcer because of me.

When my son is with me, he's great. Happy, vibrant. When with his mom, he has anxiety and stomach aches - and is depressed.

This *REALLY* pisses me off. She said they both had a cry today, and she said "I'm sorry". He said "it's not your fault". She told me she couldn't bring herself to tell him that in fact, it is. 

I'm meeting with a therapist tomorrow for an interview to see if I like her for my son.

That selfish f*cking *****. I can't stand her. My poor kids...


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I'm sorry to see she is still tormenting you. I guess she hasnt grasped that all it does is push you further away! 

I just read this entire thread. I admire the way you have handled things.


----------



## The-Deceived

3Xnocharm said:


> I'm sorry to see she is still tormenting you. I guess she hasnt grasped that all it does is push you further away!
> 
> I just read this entire thread. I admire the way you have handled things.


She has no logic or understanding of the most basic fundamentals of life.

And thank you.


----------



## Lovemytruck

TD,

I haven't read TAM or you thread for a few days.

Damn it! Sounds like you are still getting those feelings of guilt/regrets/pity party things from your WW. It is so hard while you are between d-day, and the final D.

Space and time. The more of it, the better!

It is probably too early for thoughts of a new woman. When that begins it will be easier to let the past stay behind you. I haven't read all of the posts, so I am guessing.

Whew!

Just glad you are still moving forward. You have come a long way through your ordeal. Thanks for sharing your progress!


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> TD,
> 
> I haven't read TAM or you thread for a few days.
> 
> Damn it! Sounds like you are still getting those feelings of guilt/regrets/pity party things from your WW. It is so hard while you are between d-day, and the final D.
> 
> Space and time. The more of it, the better!
> 
> It is probably too early for thoughts of a new woman. When that begins it will be easier to let the past stay behind you. I haven't read all of the posts, so I am guessing.
> 
> Whew!
> 
> Just glad you are still moving forward. You have come a long way through your ordeal. Thanks for sharing your progress!


Thanks Truck. Matter of fact I have a lovely young journalist gal cooking me dinner at her apartment tomorrow night. I have started moving on already. Just having fun, dating, living my life. Not looking for a relationship, but I have an open mind.

I'm really enjoying myself, and it's a great escape from the crazy stbxww. 

She has not come close to letting go. She still relies on me like we're together.

I don't wish her any ill will, but she is not a good person. She is still as selfish and controlling as ever. Severing that tie is not going to be easy.


----------



## Lovemytruck

Good deal! On the new friend thing! Lol!

Sounds like a cc of my story. It is ironic how they treat you so sh!tty, don't know why you hurt, and act like their life is ending when you find a better woman.

I have not ill will toward my exWW either.

It makes me happy to know that you are on the mend!


----------



## The-Deceived

Lovemytruck said:


> Good deal! On the new friend thing! Lol!
> 
> Sounds like a cc of my story. It is ironic how they treat you so sh!tty, don't know why you hurt, and act like their life is ending when you find a better woman.
> 
> I have not ill will toward my exWW either.
> 
> It makes me happy to know that you are on the mend!


Sure am brother trucker, thanks!


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> She has no logic or understanding of the most basic fundamentals of life.
> 
> And thank you.


I agree with you. She is either completely morally corrupt and unable to grasp the width and breadth of her betrayal....or she is off her rocker and needs to be committed. 

I'm thinlking its a combo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Numb-badger

bandit.45 said:


> I agree with you. She is either completely morally corrupt and unable to grasp the width and breadth of her betrayal....or she is of her rocker and needs to be committed.
> 
> I'm thinlking its a combo.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: It usually is! :iagree:


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> I agree with you. She is either completely morally corrupt and unable to grasp the width and breadth of her betrayal....or she is of her rocker and needs to be committed.
> 
> I'm thinlking its a combo.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup. A biggie combo.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> Thanks Truck. Matter of fact I have a lovely young journalist gal cooking me dinner at her apartment tomorrow night. I have started moving on already. Just having fun, dating, living my life. Not looking for a relationship, but I have an open mind.
> 
> I'm really enjoying myself, and it's a great escape from the crazy stbxww.
> 
> She has not come close to letting go. She still relies on me like we're together.
> 
> I don't wish her any ill will, but she is not a good person. She is still as selfish and controlling as ever. Severing that tie is not going to be easy.


That's awesome. Don't be surprised if she jumps your bones when you're least expecting it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> That's awesome. Don't be surprised if she jumps your bones when you're least expecting it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You mean this new gal? I took her out for drinks/food and then played live for her. She stared at me the entire time, then we made out. It was like being 16 again.


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> You mean this new gal?


Yep. Women today aren't shy bro. If she digs you and wants to fornicate, she'll jump you when you least expect it. 

Getting ravished by a gal on a first date is quite nice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> Yep. Women today aren't shy bro. If she digs you and wants to fornicate, she'll jump you when you least expect it.
> 
> Getting ravished by a gal on a first date is quite nice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No doubt. 

She's a Jewish gal (not kosher). I'm uncut. I was thinking I'll limp into her apartment tomorrow and say "I got something really special done, just for you".


----------



## bandit.45

The-Deceived said:


> No doubt.
> 
> She's a Jewish gal (not kosher). I'm uncut. I was thinking I'll limp into her apartment tomorrow and say "I got something really special done, just for you".


:rofl:

"My foreskin is foregone!"


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> :rofl:
> 
> "My foreskin is foregone!"


Wayward foreskin!


----------



## The-Deceived

I had a chat with stbxww yesterday. She apparently is going back to school to get her GED as she wants to be able to better help the kids with their homework.

I asked if posom had contacted her since I ended R. She said yes, but has no intention of seeing him, but that he might "be around"...for example at some birthday party she is attending soon. She said he is "worried about her". Uh huh.

I told her he most certainly is not - he is a predator and just wants to **** you again. She says she "has her sites set much higher than that pos". Don't buy it for a second. Get some drinks in her, a few lines of blow, and she'll spread like peanut butter.

If he's in her life in any capacity, I will be forced to go for full custody of my kids. I've told her this before. She assures me he's not going to be in her life. If it wasn't for my kids, I wouldn't care if she was a full blown crack *****. But that ain't the case.

I sure hopes she keeps him out of her life. Or things are going to get real ugly.

Do I contact this f*ck and tell him to stay away? If he's in her life, my kids are at risk.


----------



## walkonmars

The-Deceived said:


> Do I contact this f*ck and tell him to stay away? If he's in her life, my kids are at risk.


I wouldn't - he's proven to be an asshat and would probably take your warning as a challenge. She's the one that needs to be told - and that's been done.


----------



## bandit.45

b.blue said:


> Why you still care about it? She is not worth it to be cared


He doesn't want the scumbag OM around the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The-Deceived

Well I contacted him. Man he's dumb as f*ck. I told him that I will take any association he has with my ex to be a direct threat to my children, and I will sue for full custody of the kids. I said judges don't take too kindly to moms who hang out with coke dealing hells angels. He said "same with this message! See ya!!". I said "what?" He said he could use this message against me. I said it's not illegal to sue for full custody - by all means, take this to a judge. Moron.

I also told my whoring ex: "If KH is in your life in ANY capacity, your kids will not be. I will sue for full custody, and I will win". She ripped into me for texting him. She goes off about how she's only living a good life now, making good decisions. I said engaging that imbecile when he texted you shows how bad your judgement still is. "But he cares about me, he wants to know I'm OK". I told her she is so naive and has no common sense. And again - it's your choice. posom or your kids. I'll be watching.

Stupid, stupid f*cking wh*re.

I'm astounded I tried R. But glad, because I'll always know I did my best to save my family.

He ended his text by saying "now beat it, don't contact me again". I replied "don't contact her again". That was it. For now.

I hope, for her sake, she does the right thing.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

TD, they are BOTH morons. That she thinks he actually CARES about her...unreal. I hope she realizes that you are serious.


----------



## BobSimmons

The-Deceived said:


> Well I contacted him. Man he's dumb as f*ck. I told him that I will take any association he has with my ex to be a direct threat to my children, and I will sue for full custody of the kids. I said judges don't take too kindly to moms who hang out with coke dealing hells angels. He said "same with this message! See ya!!". I said "what?" He said he could use this message against me. I said it's not illegal to sue for full custody - by all means, take this to a judge. Moron.
> 
> I also told my whoring ex: "If KH is in your life in ANY capacity, your kids will not be. I will sue for full custody, and I will win". She ripped into me for texting him. She goes off about how she's only living a good life now, making good decisions. I said engaging that imbecile when he texted you shows how bad your judgement still is. "But he cares about me, he wants to know I'm OK". I told her she is so naive and has no common sense. And again - it's your choice. posom or your kids. I'll be watching.
> 
> Stupid, stupid f*cking wh*re.
> 
> I'm astounded I tried R. But glad, because I'll always know I did my best to save my family.
> 
> He ended his text by saying "now beat it, don't contact me again". I replied "don't contact her again". That was it. For now.
> 
> I hope, for her sake, she does the right thing.


You told her not to contact him, she still does. Telling a drug dealing whatever not to call your wife...not really sure what that's meant to entail. You'll just embolden him..he doesn't care. Be divorced get custody and be done with it. All the threats in the world won't win back your marriage.


----------



## Jasel

Your wife seems to have some pretty bad judgement skills, which may or may not be the result of underlying psycological issues, regardless of whether that particular guy is in her life or not. That guy is just a symptom of bigger issues with your wife. Not to say you shouldn't shut the door on his @$$ to the best of your ability.

But there are an endless amount of a$$hol$s and scumbags out there who she could bring into her life and be bad for your kids and your wife seems to have that "self-destruct" mindset that plays out in her actions. Not to mention self-destructive behavior she could engage in all by herself.

You should probably just sue for full custody regardless. I wouldn't trust your wife to make any smart/rational/logical decisions in regards to your kids' safety just because that one guy isn't in the picture. The woman sounds unstable. And going by what you've said in previous threads your kids, or at least one of them, aren't being done any favors being in her care.


----------



## The-Deceived

BobSimmons said:


> You told her not to contact him, she still does. Telling a drug dealing whatever not to call your wife...not really sure what that's meant to entail. You'll just embolden him..he doesn't care. Be divorced get custody and be done with it. All the threats in the world won't win back your marriage.


I do not want to win back my marriage.


----------



## The-Deceived

3Xnocharm said:


> TD, they are BOTH morons. That she thinks he actually CARES about her...unreal. I hope she realizes that you are serious.


Oh she's an imbecile all right.


----------



## The-Deceived

Jasel said:


> Your wife seems to have some pretty bad judgement skills, which may or may not be the result of underlying psycological issues, regardless of whether that particular guy is in her life or not. That guy is just a symptom of bigger issues with your wife. Not to say you shouldn't shut the door on his @$$ to the best of your ability.
> 
> But there are an endless amount of a$$hol$s and scumbags out there who she could bring into her life and be bad for your kids and your wife seems to have that "self-destruct" mindset that plays out in her actions. Not to mention self-destructive behavior she could engage in all by herself.
> 
> You should probably just sue for full custody regardless. I wouldn't trust your wife to make any smart/rational/logical decisions in regards to your kids' safety just because that one guy isn't in the picture. The woman sounds unstable. And going by what you've said in previous threads your kids, or at least one of them, aren't being done any favors being in her care.


I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, but if it does, I will step up. Mark my f*cking words.


----------



## BobSimmons

The-Deceived said:


> I do not want to win back my marriage.


That's awesome. Still think the ultimatum's are neither here nor there. You want to get your kids then get them. If they want to sneak around to see each other they will do it anyway. The guy is a criminal, do you think he gives a sh*t?


----------



## The-Deceived

BobSimmons said:


> That's awesome. Still think the ultimatum's are neither here nor there. You want to get your kids then get them. If they want to sneak around to see each other they will do it anyway. The guy is a criminal, do you think he gives a sh*t?


It was probably more for me than him. And no, he doesn't care. But I needed to tell him. 

My almost ex wife is scared. She knows I'm serious and she knows I will win. I don't want to take their mom away from my kids, but if it's in their best interest, I will. 

They deserve each other. Dumb and dumber. Scum and scummer.


----------



## LongWalk

I was blown away by the argument in the bar. Her carrying colleague insisted that she have a beer to "chill" before she could drive home. If you have someone's best interests in mind you don't encourage them to drink and drive. So this web of relationships at the bar has helped her avoid responsibility.

Sounds like a custody battle and losing her kids would be just another heart rending story to share with Dan and the gang. If they were really her friends, they would tell the biker that he was banned from the bar and they wouldn't mention her as the reason for the decision. They could just say the police had been asking questions about him and he was no longer welcome. Probably they consider him a valuable customer.

He probably considers your wife a valuable customer, too. Since some part of the $45,000 of debt she ran up did not go to her CD collection.

Another bizarre comment from her texting:
"-I worshiped you, I still do. I hope she dose. It's rare Aaron"

The less she knows about your social life the better.


----------



## warlock07

"But he cares about me, he wants to know I'm OK"

good decision to divorce


----------



## The-Deceived

warlock07 said:


> "But he cares about me, he wants to know I'm OK"
> 
> good decision to divorce


Best ever. She still texts me constantly.

I think I'm going to ask her to sign the papers admitting she cheated so we can divorce right away instead of November. I'm dating and moving on with my life. No point dragging this out another 7 months. Wonder if she'll sign it...


----------



## The-Deceived

LongWalk said:


> I was blown away by the argument in the bar. Her carrying colleague insisted that she have a beer to "chill" before she could drive home. If you have someone's best interests in mind you don't encourage them to drink and drive. So this web of relationships at the bar has helped her avoid responsibility.
> 
> Sounds like a custody battle and losing her kids would be just another heart rending story to share with Dan and the gang. If they were really her friends, they would tell the biker that he was banned from the bar and they wouldn't mention her as the reason for the decision. They could just say the police had been asking questions about him and he was no longer welcome. Probably they consider him a valuable customer.
> 
> He probably considers your wife a valuable customer, too. Since some part of the $45,000 of debt she ran up did not go to her CD collection.
> 
> Another bizarre comment from her texting:
> "-I worshiped you, I still do. I hope she dose. It's rare Aaron"
> 
> The less she knows about your social life the better.


She knows nothing now, and yes, her "friends" at the bar are idiots as well. Mostly grown ups who work those places are stunted emotionally and intellectually. It's toxic. 

BTW - I haven't been this happy for as long as I can remember. She moved out April 1. My house looks awesome, I'm working out, dating, cooking, making music and out playing music live again.

She's still miserable.


----------



## The-Deceived

Decorum said:


> Tell her you will fax them to here, ask her if Chooad is Notery Public, could he mark it when he gets up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL.


----------



## The-Deceived

Decorum said:


> Thanks for the LOL,
> It just gals me, but Im very glad how well you are doing really!
> how can she go on this trip and think its ok, and you would be ok with it? Clueless.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, and yes, doing great.


----------



## LostViking

Decorum said:


> Tell her you will fax them to her, ask her if Chooad is Notery Public, could he mark it when he gets up. (Not serious) how can she go on this trip and think its ok, and you would be ok with it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are on the wrong thread Decorum. You are thinking of Eric's thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Have you ever checked to find out what sort of rap sheet the biker guy has. You could use the info in a custody case. Who knows he may be in violation of parole. If you spoke with his parole officer, he might come down hard on this guy. Could all be confidential.

It would be a good story for the bar gang. VIP customer hassled by fuzz, no shıt, you're kidding, not WW's boyfriend, what a bummer for her.


----------



## The-Deceived

LongWalk said:


> Have you ever checked to find out what sort of rap sheet the biker guy has. You could use the info in a custody case. Who knows he may be in violation of parole. If you spoke with his parole officer, he might come down hard on this guy. Could all be confidential.
> 
> It would be a good story for the bar gang. VIP customer hassled by fuzz, no shıt, you're kidding, not WW's boyfriend, what a bummer for her.


No, but according to her he has arrest warrants.

I work with a gal whose husband is a cop.


----------



## LongWalk

A policeman who hears about your kids will be extra motivated to catch this guy. This is the kind of work that can make a cop feel good about him/herself. The police might be happy to have his cell phone number so that they can track him down. They may have no idea that he is hanging out at the bar. The party coming up is an opportunity.


----------



## The-Deceived

I just asked her to sign an affidavit admitting to adultery so we can divorce right away. She ain't too happy about it.

"I don't get to make any calls do I? Your in charge because I'm the **** up. Glad we will have that on paper".

Boo f*cking hoo. Reap what you sew, infidel.


----------



## LongWalk

Well, you have to write song about this episode of your life. "Here's a little number called "the Cheating Barmaid Blues".


----------



## The-Deceived

LongWalk said:


> Well, you have to write song about this episode of your life. "Here's a little number called "the Cheating Barmaid Blues".


I'm so happy. I'm having a good time dating, living my life. Keeping up my house, out playing music. I met this gorgeous Russian woman who I've gone out with a couple times. Took her to see me play live last night - that went well.  I'm crushing on her big time. SO much passion, so much fire in her blood. Smart, sexy, funny. And omg she smells sublime. Swoon.

Learning to cook. Keeping up on laundry, make my bed everyday. My house looks awesome (had some women friends and family come in and help me redecorate). The kids are happy.

STBXWW is not so happy.

I've turned into this alpha male with huge confidence and some swagger. Getting my balls back from my STBX's purse has done tremendous things for me. I never realized just how profoundly stifled I was by that woman.

Now I am truly living.


----------



## badbane

The-Deceived said:


> No, but according to her he has arrest warrants.
> 
> I work with a gal whose husband is a cop.


LOL if you want him to back off then then next text should be. 
If I so much as hear one mention of your name and my kids there will be an email with your name, description, and known location sent to all 50 states, the fbi, as well as every local PD station in town. 
This will also happen if him or his buddies attempt to mess with you or your family.


----------



## Subi

The-Deceived said:


> I'm so happy. I'm having a good time dating, living my life. Keeping up my house, out playing music. I met this gorgeous Russian woman who I've gone out with a couple times. Took her to see me play live last night - that went well.  I'm crushing on her big time. SO much passion, so much fire in her blood. Smart, sexy, funny. And omg she smells sublime. Swoon.
> 
> Learning to cook. Keeping up on laundry, make my bed everyday. My house looks awesome (had some women friends and family come in and help me redecorate). The kids are happy.
> 
> STBXWW is not so happy.
> 
> I've turned into this alpha male with huge confidence and some swagger. Getting my balls back from my STBX's purse has done tremendous things for me. I never realized just how profoundly stifled I was by that woman.
> 
> Now I am truly living.


AMEN, AMEN, AMEN TO THAT. You never think of how your life can get transformed while you are still in that situation but once you come out of it your only regret is having stayed a minute longer. :smthumbup:


----------



## warlock07

The-Deceived said:


> I just asked her to sign an affidavit admitting to adultery so we can divorce right away. She ain't too happy about it.
> 
> "I don't get to make any calls do I? Your in charge because I'm the **** up. Glad we will have that on paper".
> 
> Boo f*cking hoo. Reap what you sew, infidel.


You need to handle her carefully. The more aggressive you are, the more difficult the co-parenting relation can be. You decided to move on. Don't waste any more time on her emotionally. 

Also, infidel ?


----------



## The-Deceived

Subi said:


> AMEN, AMEN, AMEN TO THAT. You never think of how your life can get transformed while you are still in that situation but once you come out of it your only regret is having stayed a minute longer. :smthumbup:


Yes!


----------



## The-Deceived

warlock07 said:


> You need to handle her carefully. The more aggressive you are, the more difficult the co-parenting relation can be. You decided to move on. Don't waste any more time on her emotionally.
> 
> Also, infidel ?


I'm keeping things cool. It's been amicable for the most part - some bumps here and there. I'm so indifferent towards her now - I feel nothing. I don;t miss her, I hardly think of her.

But you're right. She's a **** up and an emotional disaster.


----------



## Summer4744

Is she still trying to get you back or does she leave you alone?


----------



## The-Deceived

Summer4744 said:


> Is she still trying to get you back or does she leave you alone?


She doesn't leave me alone but she knows I am DONE. She knows I'm dating and has let me go.

About her:


not allowed into the US because she was convicted of bringing weed across the border
 in bankruptcy because she ran up $45,000 in ONE YEAR on credit cards (cash advances) and line of credit (during her affair)
 had (at least) a 6 month physical affair with a gang affiliated homeless cocaine dealer (screwed him in bathrooms and his truck)
 didn't use protection and still had sex with me
 pretended to go to work (35 year old waitress) when she was actually getting someone to take her shifts so she could go do blow and f*ck posom 
 slept all day and would get up only to eat, be a ***** then go back to bed to prepare for another night of "working"
 Accused me of cheating on her for 15 years - I never did
 left me via text on my daughter's 5th birthday

What a catch!!!!


----------



## sandc

Well, when you put it that way....

Enjoy your new life.


----------



## The-Deceived

It sucks that I have to see her at all, but I do because of my kids. I would be thrilled never to lay eyes on her again. But that's a pipedream.


----------



## The-Deceived

sandc said:


> Well, when you put it that way....
> 
> Enjoy your new life.


I am, and thank you!


----------



## The-Deceived

Just reread some of this from the start. I can't believe I'm the same guy who was considering taking her back. I'd rather wake up alone for the rest of my life than have that woman in my life.

Crazy.


----------



## Faiora

The-Deceived said:


> Just reread some of this from the start. I can't believe I'm the same guy who was considering taking her back. I'd rather wake up alone for the rest of my life than have that woman in my life.
> 
> Crazy.


I haven't read the whole thread - just the first page of replies and the last. But with all the touchy-feely business aside:

I think the key quality in any relationship is respect. If you could both regain respect for each other, a relationship could work. But, it appears as if you've lost respect for her for good (rightly, I think many would say); so the relationship is likely over for good. 

Feel good about your decisions and stick with them. Things will get better; in fact, things will be amazing.


----------



## The-Deceived

Faiora said:


> I haven't read the whole thread - just the first page of replies and the last. But with all the touchy-feely business aside:
> 
> I think the key quality in any relationship is respect. If you could both regain respect for each other, a relationship could work. But, it appears as if you've lost respect for her for good (rightly, I think many would say); so the relationship is likely over for good.
> 
> Feel good about your decisions and stick with them. Things will get better; in fact, things will be amazing.


Thank you, things already are amazing! I am a new man, enjoying my new life. I have come alive...

There is no possible way in hell I would ever get back together with her. I have no respect, only disdain, disgust...some hatred.

Since I've left her, I haven't had to use my inhaler and I've cut way down on my Zoloft. My body was telling me something, for many years. RUN!


----------



## Single Malt

The-Deceived said:


> Does it get easier? It'll never go away, I know that.


Being the kind of guy who will never stay with someone that gave me something to vision for the rest of my life(unless I leave them) I can only guess that it might get easier, but never will you have complete peace with it all. Just my guess.




> Am I weak for taking her back? Am I a fool?


Honestly, yes. I am only answering your question and mean no offense whatsoever. Trust me. I have been in the situation where I tried to make it work and took back my x-wife when I found out she cheated.




> This ****ing SUCKS.



You have to decide. Can you handle triggers when they happen? Will you be able to squash any anger you have inside when you think about her riding another man? Because you WILL think about it, even years down the road.

Only way, IMO, to render those thoughts harmless is to get rid of the person that put them there.

But I know you want to try to make it work. So MC is the only thing I can think of. Also, she becomes an open book. You have access to all her social media accounts, phone, etc.
And if she was the type to go out and party with the girls, sorry, but that sh** is over. Not saying she was like that, but if she was, she now needs to start acting like a wife and mother.

So start with MC and see how it goes from there.


----------



## The-Deceived

Single Malt said:


> Being the kind of guy who will never stay with someone that gave me something to vision for the rest of my life(unless I leave them) I can only guess that it might get easier, but never will you have complete peace with it all. Just my guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, yes. I am only answering your question and mean no offense whatsoever. Trust me. I have been in the situation where I tried to make it work and took back my x-wife when I found out she cheated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to decide. Can you handle triggers when they happen? Will you be able to squash any anger you have inside when you think about her riding another man? Because you WILL think about it, even years down the road.
> 
> Only way, IMO, to render those thoughts harmless is to get rid of the person that put them there.
> 
> But I know you want to try to make it work. So MC is the only thing I can think of. Also, she becomes an open book. You have access to all her social media accounts, phone, etc.
> And if she was the type to go out and party with the girls, sorry, but that sh** is over. Not saying she was like that, but if she was, she now needs to start acting like a wife and mother.
> 
> So start with MC and see how it goes from there.


I kicked her to the curb in February, and I am NEVER looking back. I am looking forward to being divorced like a kid looks forward to Christmas f*cking morning.

I am a much, much happier person without her in my life.

She, on the other hand, is utterly miserable.


----------



## Single Malt

The-Deceived said:


> I am a much, much happier person without her in my life.
> 
> She, on the other hand, is utterly miserable.


And thats the best revenge, living well and being happy.

So live life to the fullest.


----------



## LongWalk

Did you have any luck getting the police after OM?


----------



## The-Deceived

LongWalk said:


> Did you have any luck getting the police after OM?


No, I let it lie for now. She's painfully aware of the fact that if she associates with him on any level, I'll sue for full custody. She's begged me to stop threatening her with that and swears up and down she wants nothing to do with him, and that he doesn't want the drama.

He's a f*cking poseur and a p*ssy. All bluster. He's aware how miserable I will make his life if he f*cks with me or her. He's aware I know of his record and his coke dealing. He's moved onto other skank-wh*res. I couldn't give a shiny f*ck who my stbxw associates with except that my children would be affected. So, that makes it my business.

She's scared sh*tless of losing her kids and having them hate her. And she knows I can make that happen. They're ALL she has now. 

As my boss put it the other day. "It's sure clear who "won" this break up." Damn right, son. Reap it, skank.


----------



## warlock07

Did you find out what she did with the money ?


----------



## The-Deceived

warlock07 said:


> Did you find out what she did with the money ?


Cash advances for blow, cash advances for everything because she wasn't actually working like everyone thought she was - she was getting her shifts covered so she could do blow and bang POSOM in his truck and bathroom stalls until 4 in the morning. 

Nice, huh?

Maybe I DO want her back! LOL.


----------



## treyvion

The-Deceived said:


> Cash advances for blow, cash advances for everything because she wasn't actually working like everyone thought she was - she was getting her shifts covered so she could do blow and bang POSOM in his truck and bathroom stalls until 4 in the morning.
> 
> Nice, huh?
> 
> Maybe I DO want her back! LOL.


Well if you get her back, at least you know your not dealing with a LD situation.


----------



## The-Deceived

treyvion said:


> Well if you get her back, at least you know your not dealing with a LD situation.


What's LD?

PS

I wouldn't take her back if she were the last woman on earth.


----------



## treyvion

The-Deceived said:


> What's LD?
> 
> PS
> 
> I wouldn't take her back if she were the last woman on earth.


LD means low sex drive.

If it was the last and only woman on earth and you could take her back and be the only man who would have a woman and she would not want to cheat on you, and your needs were met, I bet you would do this rather than be gay.


----------



## The-Deceived

treyvion said:


> LD means low sex drive.
> 
> If it was the last and only woman on earth and you could take her back and be the only man who would have a woman and she would not want to cheat on you, and your needs were met, I bet you would do this rather than be gay.


Nope - I'd rather be alone. But thanks for playing!


----------



## treyvion

The-Deceived said:


> Nope - I'd rather be alone. But thanks for playing!


What do you mean "thanks for playing"? Thanks for commenting?


----------



## ShootMePlz!

I think he means playing the "What if Game"!


----------



## weightlifter

TD
Update.
Is life on the upswing?


----------



## The-Deceived

weightlifter said:


> TD
> Update.
> Is life on the upswing?


Hey WL! Am I still banned? 

I have ups and downs...I am still dating, but learning that I am not ready for an actual "relationship". I'm finding the ladies I've dated tend to want more than I'm ready to give - I am a dude with a lot of baggage, after all.

The stbxww still has the separation agreement and has not signed - she admitted she's putting it off. Sunday's, when she comes to get the kids, are still so hard. It does NOT get easier saying goodbye to them. I still have them Wednesday to Sunday. I'm no longer allowed to work from home Fridays, so the ex wants me to take them Sunday nights now. Great mom, hey? So she has them Monday and Tuesday, yet I pay $1300/month in child support.

Looking at the stbx now - I'm just utterly astounded at what white trash she is, and how dumb she is. I'm not saying this out of anger - it's the truth. 

Can't recall if I posted this before - but a few weeks back, she told me she went to see the ex om on the "advice of her therapist" to get "closure". She then sat across from me while the kids played, and told me how "proud" of him she is, because he's trying to clean up his life. This is the type of person she is. I was flabbergasted. She then asked me to take the kids on Sunday night because the therapist told her she "needed to go have some fun", but didn't want to ask her parents to watch them as she didn't want to put them out. WOW. She "likes" the ex om Facebook posts - my favorite was a pic of him and a buddy showing fingers and the caption was "2 in the pink, 1 in the stink". This is the kind of thing she finds compelling and interesting. 

I'm still off of Zoloft (4 months now) and doing well. Financially I'm screwed, but my folks are going to help me (thankfully - they rock).

The stbx still always says she "knows I still love her". LOL. I don't even like you, let alone LOVE you. I barely tolerate her, for chrissakes. 

I still wake up every morning and am just bewildered and astonished this all went down. I'm definitely still angry and disgusted. But I know how much better I am without her - what a toxic person she is, how damaged, stupid and selfish she is. She is white trash personified. I am not. As soon as my daughter is around her, she gets emotional, needy and whiny. When with me, she's confident, silly and sweet. My son is angry. But he knows on some level it's his mom who's the f*ck up.

I'm generally happy and calm, but I have triggers - like when my kids are suffering because of the break up, and when the stbx does stupid sh*t like praise her AP or ask me to take the kids on her day so she can party.

So, I guess I'm kind of the same. When I get down I just remind myself how much better off I am without her. She asked me to take her back as recently as 2 weeks ago. I looked at her and said "no".

The more I date, the more I realize I want to be alone right now.

Thanks for asking, mi amigo.


----------



## LongWalk

> Can't recall if I posted this before - but a few weeks back, she told me she went to see the ex om on the "advice of her therapist" to get "closure". She then sat across from me while the kids played, and *told me how "proud" of him she is, because he's trying to clean up his life.* This is the type of person she is. I was flabbergasted. She then asked me to take the kids on Sunday night because the therapist told her she "needed to go have some fun", but didn't want to ask her parents to watch them as she didn't want to put them out. WOW. She "likes" the ex om Facebook posts - my favorite was a pic of him and a buddy showing fingers and the caption was* "2 in the pink, 1 in the stink". This is the kind of thing she finds compelling and interesting*.


Didn't she run up a huge debt, buying and snorting coke with him?

Have you written a song about this experience? Make her immortal.


----------



## The-Deceived

LongWalk said:


> Didn't she run up a huge debt, buying and snorting coke with him?
> 
> Have you written a song about this experience? Make her immortal.


Yes, she did. And yes, I have. She is currently in personal bankruptcy.

The song is called "This Grin". I shall post it here tonight - it's still a work in progress production wise, but I'd love for you to hear it.


----------



## treyvion

The-Deceived said:


> Yes, she did. And yes, I have. She is currently in personal bankruptcy.
> 
> The song is called "This Grin". I shall post it here tonight - it's still a work in progress production wise, but I'd love for you to hear it.


That is worthy of a song.


----------



## weightlifter

Just for your own knowledge I quoted you on another thread. Things needed to be said to your WS...

That one about how you found your love dying a slow death and turning to hate. POWERFUL stuff. Yes I gave you credit. Brilliant. Grim Brilliant. But Brilliant nonetheless.

It is one of 5 of the most powerful things I have read to date on these boards. 2 were lost in a troll thread deletion, one other was by doubletrouble, and the last was trying to remember name, the dude who listened to vars and was posting as he listened to his wife fvcking in her car VAR recording. 

THAT ONE gives me nightmares cause I am the one who gave him the VAR info but did not know at the time how incredibly damaging that could be over and above having your wife cheat on you. Now the warning is part of my standard instructions about NOT listening if you start to hear your cheating wife get busy on a VAR. It will do damage far far FAR beyond even the grim norm of CWI.

>Hey WL! Am I still banned?< Want me to ban you? [BAM! your banned} didnt work did it? LOL cant

Forgot what state? How long on D final?

PM me when the song is done man!

I believe you when you say its too soon to have a true relationship.

Just remember a poon or three is superglue for that smashed ego. DONT overdo that one tho.

LOL Im one of those wierd ones that actually is interested in the long term wins. Kind of interesting to watch hoplessness, turn to sadness turn to anger, turn to ambivalence turn to cautious optimism turn to "Ya know I met this girl..." When you do find the next relationship. YOU WON as success is the best revenge. 

Remember it hurts so bad because they can make us feel so good. Plus that super intense hot hot hot sex after the first I love you's are exchanged... You got that in your future man! (yes I know not tomorrow)


----------



## The-Deceived

weightlifter said:


> Just for your own knowledge I quoted you on another thread. Things needed to be said to your WS...
> 
> That one about how you found your love dying a slow death and turning to hate. POWERFUL stuff. Yes I gave you credit. Brilliant. Grim Brilliant. But Brilliant nonetheless.
> 
> It is one of 5 of the most powerful things I have read to date on these boards. 2 were lost in a troll thread deletion, one other was by doubletrouble, and the last was trying to remember name, the dude who listened to vars and was posting as he listened to his wife fvcking in her car VAR recording.
> 
> THAT ONE gives me nightmares cause I am the one who gave him the VAR info but did not know at the time how incredibly damaging that could be over and above having your wife cheat on you. Now the warning is part of my standard instructions about NOT listening if you start to hear your cheating wife get busy on a VAR. It will do damage far far FAR beyond even the grim norm of CWI.
> 
> >Hey WL! Am I still banned?< Want me to ban you? [BAM! your banned} didnt work did it? LOL cant
> 
> Forgot what state? How long on D final?
> 
> PM me when the song is done man!
> 
> I believe you when you say its too soon to have a true relationship.
> 
> Just remember a poon or three is superglue for that smashed ego. DONT overdo that one tho.
> 
> LOL Im one of those wierd ones that actually is interested in the long term wins. Kind of interesting to watch hoplessness, turn to sadness turn to anger, turn to ambivalence turn to cautious optimism turn to "Ya know I met this girl..." When you do find the next relationship. YOU WON as success is the best revenge.
> 
> Remember it hurts so bad because they can make us feel so good. Plus that super intense hot hot hot sex after the first I love you's are exchanged... You got that in your future man! (yes I know not tomorrow)


Damn son - lots to talk about!


----------



## The-Deceived

If you guys are interested, here's a song I wrote that came 100% from the disintegration of my marriage. Kinda sums it up for me in under 3 minutes. It's a work in progress. ;-)

https://soundcloud.com/aaronpenton/grin22/s-EQGzO


----------



## Shaggy

So she now associates with the AP, have you gone for full custody lie you said?


----------



## weightlifter

The-Deceived said:


> Damn son - lots to talk about!


You sayin I blather alot?

uh YEA!

edit bookmarked it. Gotta go to bed. Im tarred.


----------



## LongWalk

Good song. Good enough to perform in public as is.

My ears are a bit burnt out from the Sony Walkman years. Could you lift the vocals slightly so that instruments are slightly less dominating.

To lift the song artistically a notch, so that the listener who is drinking beer and talking with friends instead of concentrating on the music, could you break the song up with two lines that illustrate the theme in a concrete way. Sing those without much instrumentation, maybe just guitar or something.

You can find those lines in your thread. Go back in and find some moment of truth something she did or you realized.

The fact that she associates with the OM... she doesn't realize she is just a flirting with a return to her druggie lifestyle. 

WL, do you have a link to post by the guy listening to the VAR?


----------



## The-Deceived

weightlifter said:


> Just for your own knowledge I quoted you on another thread. Things needed to be said to your WS...
> 
> That one about how you found your love dying a slow death and turning to hate. POWERFUL stuff. Yes I gave you credit. Brilliant. Grim Brilliant. But Brilliant nonetheless.
> 
> It is one of 5 of the most powerful things I have read to date on these boards. 2 were lost in a troll thread deletion, one other was by doubletrouble, and the last was trying to remember name, the dude who listened to vars and was posting as he listened to his wife fvcking in her car VAR recording.
> 
> THAT ONE gives me nightmares cause I am the one who gave him the VAR info but did not know at the time how incredibly damaging that could be over and above having your wife cheat on you. Now the warning is part of my standard instructions about NOT listening if you start to hear your cheating wife get busy on a VAR. It will do damage far far FAR beyond even the grim norm of CWI.
> 
> >Hey WL! Am I still banned?< Want me to ban you? [BAM! your banned} didnt work did it? LOL cant
> 
> Forgot what state? How long on D final?
> 
> PM me when the song is done man!
> 
> I believe you when you say its too soon to have a true relationship.
> 
> Just remember a poon or three is superglue for that smashed ego. DONT overdo that one tho.
> 
> LOL Im one of those wierd ones that actually is interested in the long term wins. Kind of interesting to watch hoplessness, turn to sadness turn to anger, turn to ambivalence turn to cautious optimism turn to "Ya know I met this girl..." When you do find the next relationship. YOU WON as success is the best revenge.
> 
> Remember it hurts so bad because they can make us feel so good. Plus that super intense hot hot hot sex after the first I love you's are exchanged... You got that in your future man! (yes I know not tomorrow)


I saw that thread - thanks man. Grim brilliant, huh? I think you coined a new phrase there...

Man I remember reading that thread with the var - like a horror movie. That **** would be burned into your mind and soul forever. What a horror show.

I'm in Canada bro = and the ex STILL hasn't signed the separation agreement. As soon as she does that, I can start the D. She's dragging it out and it SUCKS. I want to be divorced already...she's like a tumor for f*ck sake.

Don't they make superglue from poon? It is great to rebuild your self esteem, but I'm just not real good at loving 'em and leaving 'em, you know? 

Honestly I can't imagine saying or hearing I love you right now...it's so foreign, and I'm still so...cold. It's funny what infidelity can do to you - turn your heart into a dead fish. But I do believe you when you say it's in the future. People find love again every day. I still have so much work to do on me, and my kids, and my music...I quoted folks from here the other day to the stbxw about the 2-5 years to get over it. She said "bull****" and that I should be over it already and moving on. Pretty easy to spew that kind of bullsh*t when you're the betrayer.


----------



## The-Deceived

weightlifter said:


> You sayin I blather alot?
> 
> uh YEA!
> 
> edit bookmarked it. Gotta go to bed. Im tarred.


No way man - love your posts. LOL at tarred.


----------



## LostViking

Your wife is a lost cause. I think for your sake you should keep your discussions with her confined to the D and the kids. When she starts rattling off her nonsense just get up and leave. Quit putting up with that garbage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

The-Deceived said:


> No way man - love your posts. LOL at tarred.


maybe not tarred.

maybe Im a tard! Interesting to put a face to the name. Gonna listen this afternoon. LOL wife on warpath today. Go me! Funny thing is, it affects me so little now.

Used to be: SHES MAD!
now: angry again. Interesting. wonder whats on military channel?

Sort of like the year I lived in FL
week 1 mid July. HOT!!!!!!
Week 4 August equally as hot and more humid. yep. hot.


----------



## The-Deceived

weightlifter said:


> maybe not tarred.
> 
> maybe Im a tard! Interesting to put a face to the name. Gonna listen this afternoon. LOL wife on warpath today. Go me! Funny thing is, it affects me so little now.
> 
> Used to be: SHES MAD!
> now: angry again. Interesting. wonder whats on military channel?
> 
> Sort of like the year I lived in FL
> week 1 mid July. HOT!!!!!!
> Week 4 August equally as hot and more humid. yep. hot.


Good on you brother. She's inconsequential.


----------



## The-Deceived

Our 13th wedding anniversary is 1 week today. That should be dramatic. The best gift she could give me would be signing the goddamn separation agreement. Fingers crossed!

I went and read through a few months of texts between us prior to and past d-day and into our false R.

It's astounding how messed up that woman is. No wonder I was on meds. She's a ranting, raving lunatic. Can't believe I put up with her for as long as I did. I mean, what a masochist I was.


----------



## weightlifter

Sorry for the pain.

Thanks for the song link. Always interesting to put a face to the name. Yea you should post a pic on your linked FB from soundcloud of your ex. Yea im curious what she looks like. Dont care about name tho. LOL. Then again I could find her name if I cared.
How does D work in Alberta?
How long does it take?

Couple times I listened to the song It got stuck in my head. Im grateful it was yours cause a few times in the distant past macarena... shuddder

Ya know what would really be a cool song (in the future)... One about how you were betrayed, then healed then loved again with younger and hotter. Being a guitar guy dont anticipate you having a shortage of volunteers.

Sort of set the song up like U2 Bad wide awake in america version where there are distinct parts as the song progresses. (not saying become pop from country I mean the parts thingy where the song distinctly changes gears)


----------



## LongWalk

Yes, the song you wrote was going through my head. Break the hard driving aspect twice with plain vocals to tell a bit more story to illustrate the cause of the emotion


----------



## The-Deceived

This Sunday got the better of me. The ex came to get the kids...we were playing catch in the backyard. She normally stays for a beer and a brief chat. This time she pushed it longer (she is supposed to sign the separation/divorce agreement tomorrow)...and my daughter was using delay tactics to extend the visit. The ex sat beside me and put her foot on mine. The kids were confused maybe but enjoying the family time - it's a mother****er of a struggle for me. I am cold but not mean. I know she's in pain and I am showing her kindness. It's my instinct as it's better for the kids, and better for me. Rage ain't good. The longer it went on the more emotional she got and the harder a time I had being strong. My eyes got watered at some point when my daughter asked something that squeezed my heart. My son instantly ****ing noticed and said "your eyes are watering. Are you crying? Why dad?". The ex tried to reason saying "well it's hard for all of us blah blah" and he got angry and said "ya don't remind me mom". Last night he melted down in my arms and today I'm crying and he doesn't shed a ****ing tear and is all brave and stoic. I grabbed my kids and held them tight and cried. ****!!!!!!!!! This is so hard on them and confusing and painful. She looked right at my son and said "I'm sorry" and he blew it off. Angry. Hurt. Confused.

I loathe her for this. But I can't let it come through. And I ****ing ACHE for my kids. It twists me up inside and out. She finally said "do you need me to go?" I said yes. I was crumbling. As soon as that door shut I was a puddle.

****ing hell. Will Sundays ever stop hurting so bad? 

I started a song about it though. Another Sunday breaks my heart. At least there's that.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

DUDE...Stop letting her hang around like that! It doesnt sound good for the kids or for you! You dont HAVE to spend time with her, so dont.


----------



## vi_bride04

3Xnocharm said:


> DUDE...Stop letting her hang around like that! It doesnt sound good for the kids or for you! You dont HAVE to spend time with her, so dont.


Why can't you just ask her to leave? Or to not even come over to begin with? 

Why do you do this to yourself and your children? Obviously having her around is NOT in their best interests.


----------



## weightlifter

"looking forward" to the song. PM me when its up. Other already bookmarked.

Add some story about why in the song.

cyber slap on the back we're behind you thing. (Sorry dont hug men not in family. LOL)


----------



## Acabado

It will get better man.
The legal procedings are also emotional milestones.
Another step less.


----------



## workindad

TD, yes, it really does get better. Stay strong- see it through.

Good luck
WD


----------



## LongWalk

Looking forward to the next song


----------



## Lovemytruck

TD,

The pain sucks. I am so glad that you have good relationships with the kids. Sometimes the poison spreads from the parents, and it can ruin the relationships.

The damn triggers. I had one a couple days ago, and I am 2.5 years out with a great new wife. The pain is much less, and lasts for a shorter time. It is still hard to fathom that someone can be so thoughtless and selfish.

Avoiding the ex has been my key. I feel so much better when she is not part of anything in my life. My sons are older, so I have almost zero communication with her. The last trigger was because she started texting me nasty stuff about our split on my retirement funds. Sweet woman, she is. 

It seems that you want to maintain a peaceful connection. I tried that for the first while after splitting and the D. It made me feel worse in some ways. It is better just not communicating or seeing each other.

It is good to hear your story along the way. Love your song videos.


----------



## badbane

Did he get permabanned ? I hope not sounds like he's hurt bad.


----------



## weightlifter

Wish they had two status.
Banned
Banned forever
So we know

Td one of my fave posters.


----------



## treyvion

Lovemytruck said:


> TD,
> 
> The pain sucks. I am so glad that you have good relationships with the kids. Sometimes the poison spreads from the parents, and it can ruin the relationships.
> 
> The damn triggers. I had one a couple days ago, and I am 2.5 years out with a great new wife. The pain is much less, and lasts for a shorter time. It is still hard to fathom that someone can be so thoughtless and selfish.
> 
> Avoiding the ex has been my key. I feel so much better when she is not part of anything in my life. My sons are older, so I have almost zero communication with her. The last trigger was because she started texting me nasty stuff about our split on my retirement funds. Sweet woman, she is.
> 
> It seems that you want to maintain a peaceful connection. I tried that for the first while after splitting and the D. It made me feel worse in some ways. It is better just not communicating or seeing each other.
> 
> It is good to hear your story along the way. Love your song videos.


Great new wife, great ending, great TAM motivation!


----------



## Summer4744

And how was she during all of this? Was she like what ever?


----------



## LongWalk

badbane said:


> Did he get permabanned ? I hope not sounds like he's hurt bad.


Hope the ban isn't permanent. I doubt it. I was banned for a week. TD will have to logout to read TAM. He'll probably figure it out.

TD,

You are an artist. You are tied up with your ex because you have a big heart and you see her suffering. You hate her and she disgusts you, which means you still love her in negative way. Part of the problem now is that she has become so pathetic. She is cute, dumb and lazy. Wouldn't it be great if by having sex with her (giving yourself) would make her beautiful instead of cute, smart and more engaged?

Unfortunately, there is no evidence that sexual intercourse makes people smarter. Probably makes them dumber. Maybe your next song can be to your ex, something biting to make her think.

Write more songs about your ex. Your other song is alive in my head. Please add two lines more to it. Take two sentences from your TAM posts, turn them into lyrics and stick them in at 1/3 and 2/3s of the way through. Your voice only or quiet guitar.

Does she even notice the song about your marriage collapsing? If she didn't it's just more proof that she is not all that perceptive.


----------



## Healer

TD was permabanned.


----------



## Lovemytruck

Shoot! I like TD. He is a passionate person that really seems to add to the though process. Wish him well!


----------



## Shaggy

Yeah, I liked TD too.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I read through his latest posts, and I cant see anything that should have gotten him banned...:scratchhead:


----------



## LostViking

What on earth did he do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BK23

This board is way too quick on the trigger to ban people, in my opinion.


----------



## oldmittens

any updates TD


----------



## Hope1964

He went into a bunch of other threads and totally started bashing all WS's. Major anger issues. Hope he gets them all sorted out.


----------



## oldmittens

oh wow, ya I know what its like, hard to let go of the anger. I hope he is managing tho. Is he still banned??


----------



## LongWalk

Somewhere I have a link to his musical site. Probably can find an email.

He's a good singer song writer.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## weightlifter

I have his email. Ill write tonight asking him hows life. He was one of my faves too.

You could tell he was having a major heartbreak early mid aug.


----------



## oldmittens

ya, one of the saddest stories on this site. Will i hope he is doing well


----------



## 3putt

oldmittens said:


> ya, one of the saddest stories on this site. Will i hope he is doing well


They're all sad, but to any given OP that is posting at that moment of discovery, that's the saddest for me.

What a gut punch.

Your heart just breaks for them.


----------



## missthelove2013

Jasel said:


> I'm telling you, I really think that marriage in today's times is just not good for men. Financially anyway. I'm glad to see more and more men (younger anyway) saying **** it instead of risking financial ruin due to a marriage gone South.


could somebody please sticky this

or tell me ONE thing, besides kids, a marriage brings that a man cant get staying single???

I cooked cleaned, laundry, did it all myself for 7 years on ym own before marriage

I had more sex in the 3 years Im was single and living alone than I have in the 13 years of marriage

in those 3 bachelor years, I NEVER masturbated...in the 13 years of marriage, my tool looks like a bycicle grip from all the self gratification...

marriage is an outdated institution!:scratchhead::lol::rofl:


----------



## missthelove2013

The-Deceived said:


> Thank you. Once again, since we've been apart, people have been telling me I have "come to life". It's remarkable.
> 
> I hope this continues, but my kids seem really happy, when they're with me anyway.
> 
> Is it bad to be excited to get divorced?


marriage is like buying a boat, or RV...the only thing more exciting and happy than BUYING the boat is the day you get rid of it...

I think men enjoy BEING divorced (not the process, but once the smoke clears) much more than being married...

I rarely talk to happily married men (unless they are young)...but I know a lot of happily divorced/will never marry again men...


----------



## weightlifter

I dunno. I know some VERY happily married men.
Some things I notice that may or may not be overall true due to low sample size.
Exactly 1 child. 2+ adds stress. I find two kids is 4 times as hard than 1. I think its the "tracking two independently moving targets effect"
They were buddies too. - Many common non family likes as in hobbies. Literally best friends who happen to be married.
Money is not a huge issue. Income 70K to 120K seems to be a golden zone of enough to not stress so much too bad but not so much that wealth becomes its own problem.

end hijack


----------



## weightlifter

missthelove2013 said:


> in those 3 bachelor years, i never masturbated...in the 13 years of marriage, my tool looks like a bycicle grip from all the self gratification...


roflmao


----------



## weightlifter

I got permission to post this as long as we dont turn this into a debate about the ban itself. Lets keep it clean. He is one of my fave posters and I want to continue to update.

From the-deceived

I'm doing really well. Writing songs and performing a lot - the career is going great.

I have the separation agreement signed and the stbx is about to be served with papers. Can't officialy file until Nov 20 (the day she left via text - also my daughter's birthday if you recall).

She continues to try and engage me and goes on and on about how she still loves me, now more than ever, can't find love because she only loves me, invites me over for booty calls - this is constant and through text. She shows up places where the kids and me are and cries and causes a scene. She goes off about how she can tell I'm in love with someone and it kills her but she wants me to be happy. Just madness. I have finally started really detaching and I don't respond to 95% of her texts. She can see this and is holding on for dear life - but I just can't wait to file.

I have let go of some anger and it's been replaced with indifference. She is truly a sad, messed up, psychologically damaged woman. I have some pity for her.

I cut out the dating for now as I'm just not there yet. Really focused on my kids, my career, my music and me.

But I am happier than ever and still of Zoloft since March. No medication - but if I let her get to me it comes back. Heading to California with my kids in 10 minutes for a vacation. Much needed for all 3 of us.

Hope you are well, my friend.


----------



## oldmittens

Great to hear he is doing well. I remember how hard it is to detach, hope things keep going well for him.


----------



## weightlifter

The latest from The Deceived. Posted Verbatim

>how the hell are you? I'm doing well. Still off of Zoloft - and the past few weeks have been a little shaky. I've been overwhelmed with life a bit - the stbxw still shows very little sign of growing up...although her bar closed down recently, and they moved her to the other location. Amazingly, she quit and has accepted another job - being a manager at another dump (I mean bar). This will potentially mean less child support I have to pay as she will make more on paper. However I am potentially getting a raise soon, so that could mean nothing.

The job is out of town and she initially decided on her own that she would uproot the kids to make her commute easier. I put the kybosh on that and informed her she legally can't move them out of school without my consent. She changed her tune (for now) and is making said commute. Time will tell if this is a step in the right direction for her - I won't hold my breath. She's still the queen of bad/stupid decisions. She still tries to engage with me constantly, and I do not engage back. I have lightened up a little bit and am not AS cold as I was - more for me than her, as I find it difficult to maintain my hostility - it's exhausting.

She was served divorce papers earlier this month - yippee ki yi yay. I have 2 bands going now, both gigging. The one is really taking off and I may have to bail at some point, as I'm not willing to hit the road and give up my career. Financial security is more important than my artistic endeavors - it has to be for my kids. I am still writing/producing and have a couple tunes that are written that I'm really psyched about. I'm learning new techniques all the time with my playing.

I'm still casually seeing one gal and have started putting the feelers out and have a couple other dates lined up. I started doing push ups again (I stopped during the holidays) and I intend to start lifting weights again. I need to to keep my anxiety/stress/anger under control.

I am still working on letting go of my anger, and mostly I'm good, but sometimes it rears its ugly head - particularly when the stbxw does something stupid that affects me or the kids. Life is definitely a challenge, but I am still happier than when I was with her, and so are my kids. My daughter is dealing with some anxiety/panic though. It's stuff like that that brings out my anger towards the ex - she is the cause of that turmoil. It's still a bit of a rollercoaster.

Hope you are well amigo!<


----------



## manticore

thks weightlifter. your updates in behalf of the OP are well received and appreciated


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

So, I take it that he was permanently banned from Tam... Well, he's not missing much of anything good here, as of late. Lot's of story tellers and doormats.

Thanks WL for the relayed update.

I just have the feeling that his train wreck stbxw won't stay on the tracks for very long. And when she derails again it ain't gonna be pretty.

Tell The Deceived thanks for the update. Many of us do want to know how he's doing.


----------



## weightlifter

Hes just cool and one of my faves so, knowing who he was and me not being exactly shy, I emailed. I figure I will annoy him every 8 to 16 weeks to see whats up.


----------



## LongWalk

He wrote a good song about his ex. He's a good musician.

His ex affaired down. Cocaine was a major factor. She is probably good looking but had low self esteem.

Thanks, Weightlifter

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## weightlifter

Ive seen his pic not his ex wifes. No idea what she looks like.
Working in a bar is very often poison to fidelity.


----------



## DarkHoly

weightlifter said:


> Hes just cool and one of my faves so, knowing who he was and me not being exactly shy, I emailed. I figure I will annoy him every 8 to 16 weeks to see whats up.


Dude annoying is the last term anyone would use to describe you


----------



## DarkHoly

LongWalk said:


> He wrote a good song about his ex. He's a good musician.
> 
> His ex affaired down. Cocaine was a major factor. She is probably good looking but had low self esteem.
> 
> Thanks, Weightlifter
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Ehhh... probably *was* good looking. Cocaine is a hell of a drug.


----------



## Chaparral

Does anyone know what got him banned? I got banned for calling another posters advice silly. From what I have seen, I thought that was pretty mild.


----------



## DarkHoly

Hope1964 said:


> He went into a bunch of other threads and totally started bashing all WS's. Major anger issues. Hope he gets them all sorted out.


What a terrible thing to do. We should be building up the people who cheat, not telling them that they did bad things.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Chaparral said:


> Does anyone know what got him banned? I got banned for calling another posters advice silly. From what I have seen, I thought that was pretty mild.


It's probably not what you had said, but how you had said it.

It's like if someone wanted to take a verbal jab at a cop, but didn't want a fine/get arrested. You have to say "I think", Or "I feel", Or someone might say, "If I had done that, OR, If i had given that advice. People would think that I'm silly."

Well, that the way I heard it, anyway.


----------



## weightlifter

PM a mod. he told me why but I think I get a ban for retelling it. LOL.


----------



## LongWalk

I saw a moderator's explanation posted a while back. OP lost his temper and attacked WS. Something like that. Probably he lost his cool.


----------



## bfree

It's not hard to lose your cool sometimes. This stuff is hard. When you're forced to eat glass at some point you just have to scream.


----------

