# Whan home is not home



## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

It's been three months since the discovery and end of my EA. Since then, life has been rough, but we have made some strides towards reconsiliation. One of her conditions soon after D-Day was that she wanted me to not sleep at the apartment, as I have a place to sleep that's outside of our apartment. I agreed, as I had little choice since I wanted to try to save our marriage by doing all that I could to do so. So, the deal was that I wouldn't sleep at the apartment, but I could eat and take showers there. 

Over the past weeks, things have been getting better between us: we are at a point where we can have conversations and she's begun to share things about her day and what she's thinking about in general with me, and she's wearing her wedding ring again. All good things. The main snag I'm having is dealing with the feelings of disappointment when I'm preparing to leave after dinner or when I'm finished with my work on the computer, and I say, " I'll see you in the morning" and, again, she just says, "ok". If I ask to stay because I'm really tired or something, then she'll let me stay, but other than that, I can't stay until she says that it's ok for me to do so. 

I know that this is probably more about me and my hopes/expectations, especially after the progress that we seem to have been making. Granted, there is a long way to go-she still avoids any real physical contact with me, for example, so I know that it is going to be a while before she's comfortable enough with me sleeping there without my asking. However, it still disappoints and saddens me. It's a constant reminder of what I did and how bad my actions made things for us. I know that it could be worse, especially after reading through some of the horror stories here on TAM, so I guess it's a small price to pay at the moment.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea, it sucks, but that's what happens when you have an EA or PA.

Suck it up and just be patient. You did this and although it seems like it's taking forever, it's really not that long. It will get better, just gotta be patient.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Yea, it sucks, but that's what happens when you have an EA or PA.
> 
> Suck it up and just be patient. You did this and although it seems like it's taking forever, it's really not that long. It will get better, just gotta be patient.


I know, three months is not a long time considering the cause. I'm just processing as things go along, just like my wife is, I suppose. I'm just having a hard time suppressing these feelings today, that's all.


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## GodIsWorking (Sep 12, 2011)

tm84 said:


> I know, three months is not a long time considering the cause. I'm just processing as things go along, just like my wife is, I suppose. I'm just having a hard time suppressing these feelings today, that's all.



I know your pain and know that you and I caused our own as well as our spouses pain. The best advise I can give you and know that I am totally in the same boat, is to pray. God can give you the strength to get through. And take pleasure in the little things, today he answered one of my text messages, and then when he left tonight he actually told me where he was going....they seem like little things but mean so much when he is hurting so badly.

What has she done differently recently, what little way has she shown you that she is working through things? You might have to think hard at first, but once you start looking for the little things you can find the intimacy you are looking for in non physical forms. 

When he smiles for me is like he is holding me in his arms, and I can't get enough of it......Pray and be thankful for every moment she doesn't push you away.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

tm84 said:


> I know, three months is not a long time considering the cause. I'm just processing as things go along, just like my wife is, I suppose. *I'm just having a hard time suppressing these feelings* today, that's all.


Three months? Granted everyone has to heal in their own way and their own time but I kind of get the feeling that some combination of you, her and the two of you together aren't processing the A and therefore aren't able to begin moving forward. I highlighted the above because IMO you shouldn't suppress your feelings, you should share them with your wife. Does she know how much it will mean to you for her to let you back in the home? If the two of you can't talk it out just the two of you get to marriage counseling. You have both got to get your feelings out in the open so they can be dealt with, otherwise they will eat you like cancer. It's hard to do, to lay your emotions and feelings out there, but it's the only way forward.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Three months? Granted everyone has to heal in their own way and their own time but I kind of get the feeling that some combination of you, her and the two of you together aren't processing the A and therefore aren't able to begin moving forward. I highlighted the above because IMO you shouldn't suppress your feelings, you should share them with your wife. Does she know how much it will mean to you for her to let you back in the home? If the two of you can't talk it out just the two of you get to marriage counseling. You have both got to get your feelings out in the open so they can be dealt with, otherwise they will eat you like cancer. It's hard to do, to lay your emotions and feelings out there, but it's the only way forward.


Thanks for your response. I think that I wasn't clear when I wrote about "suppressing" the feelings. My wife and I have been in dialogue about the A and it's aftermath all along. It's just in the past couple of days that I have been feeling a disconnect between the progress that I have seen and my not being able to sleep at home. 

I'm going to bring it up soon, but right now, I'm processing what has been happening and how I'm going to approach it with her.


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

Have you told you wife why you had the EA? She is most likely beating herself up and wondering where she went wrong..and trying to put out of her mind what went on between you two..I know, because I did that.
Whatever you feel caused the EA please don't blame your wife..you made that decision all by yourself. It hurts her more than you will ever know.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

HappyAtLast said:


> Have you told you wife why you had the EA? She is most likely beating herself up and wondering where she went wrong..and trying to put out of her mind what went on between you two..I know, because I did that.
> Whatever you feel caused the EA please don't blame your wife..you made that decision all by yourself. It hurts her more than you will ever know.


I'm nowhere near blaming my wife for my actions and she is well aware of that. I have taken 100% responsibility for the EA and continue to do so. Yes, there were issues in our relationship that both of us are responsible for, but I'm not someone to blame shift for my actions, regardless of what it is in life.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

If y'all are communicating openly and effectively it may be most productive to just ask her what she needs you to do in order for her to get to that point. Obviously you don't want to even appear to be pressuring her, but she clearly needs something that she hasn't gotten yet to invite you back home. The answer may only be that she just needs you to be patient, but at least she'll know you want to help.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

This post hits close to home, no pun intended. I moved out after a messy first three months (well, first 7 weeks were trickle truth BS). It's the best thing I ever did, personally. I'm growing so much as an individual. My wife didn't just have affairs (EA/PAs) this was a lifestyle of hers. Reality doesn't sink in until it hits her on top of the head, so I think my time out of the house, which may end up being a considerable amount of time, will benefit both of us.

For example, I've been out of the house for two weeks, but I am there to see the kids frequently. She asked me what happens when my sublease ends and I responded "well, I renew and we remain separated, or we'll know things are improving and it's time to attempt reconciling. She broke down on the phone when I confirmed to her that we were in fact, separated. Woman - I moved out of the house, what do you think we are? Happily married and living apart?

This is what I deal with on a daily basis. She won't agree when I say this, but the time apart is CRUCIAL for us to even remotely consider working on things. We both need a lot of work, on an individual basis.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Obviously you don't want to even appear to be pressuring her, but she clearly needs something that she hasn't gotten yet to invite you back home.


Yes, the last thing I want to do is to seem to be pressuring her for an outcome that I want, but that she might not be ready for.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> This post hits close to home, no pun intended. I moved out after a messy first three months (well, first 7 weeks were trickle truth BS). It's the best thing I ever did, personally. I'm growing so much as an individual. My wife didn't just have affairs (EA/PAs) this was a lifestyle of hers. Reality doesn't sink in until it hits her on top of the head, so I think my time out of the house, which may end up being a considerable amount of time, will benefit both of us.
> 
> For example, I've been out of the house for two weeks, but I am there to see the kids frequently. She asked me what happens when my sublease ends and I responded "well, I renew and we remain separated, or we'll know things are improving and it's time to attempt reconciling. She broke down on the phone when I confirmed to her that we were in fact, separated. Woman - I moved out of the house, what do you think we are? Happily married and living apart?
> 
> This is what I deal with on a daily basis. She won't agree when I say this, but the time apart is CRUCIAL for us to even remotely consider working on things. We both need a lot of work, on an individual basis.


I'm sorry to hear about you needing to move out, but I do agree that the time apart has been good. It's given me time to reflect and to begin to put everything into context-mainly the "whys" of what happened and what I can do to try to regain her trust.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

This past weekend, she said that it was ok to sleep at home again. Now, things are still rough and there's a ton of work to do, but this has been a start. 

Earlier this evening, she was telling me about a part of her day and said that she told someone that she was having a rough day. Once my wife was finished with her story, I asked her what was causing her to have a bad day. Her response was, "I hate you!!" and then went on to list the things that have been making her unhappy since our D-Day: her recent weigh gain, drinking a bit more (she used to have a shot of whiskey before bed, but that has since turned into two or more), being tired, not sleeping well, etc... It was tough to hear, but I let it go. I know that this is going to happen

I know that this is my problem, as well, since I caused a lot of it, but it's really, really tough having your wife yell that she hates you. There's not much that I can say about it since I know that she'll have these outbursts from time to time.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

tm84 said:


> I know that this is my problem, as well, since I caused a lot of it, but it's really, really tough having your wife yell that she hates you. There's not much that I can say about it since I know that she'll have these outbursts from time to time.



Ya, this will come and go. Ups and downs...your wife is having to process about a thousand different feelings a day. *This is where you show great patience and understanding.* That's all...patience and understanding. 

She will have moments where she "hates" you and moments where she "loves" you...just take it one day at a time.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Ya, this will come and go. Ups and downs...your wife is having to process about a thousand different feelings a day. *This is where you show great patience and understanding.* That's all...patience and understanding.
> 
> She will have moments where she "hates" you and moments where she "loves" you...just take it one day at a time.


GM: Thank you. It was one of those nights that had me wondering if I have the fortitude to continue. It was a hard reminder of the magnitude of what I have caused. It's hard and sad, but I'm going to keep trying somehow.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

tm - keep communicating with her. You have to keep the emotion out of your reactions to counter her's which are understandably out of control. She will level out as she regains peace of mind and begins to reestablish faith in you, the more you can do to help her in those, the quicker she will come to terms with it all. 

It is a process and it does have ups and downs. I remember many months post D Day my wife would still occasionally look at me and just go "WTF - REALLY??" As long as you continue to do what she needs to reconcile it will get better.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Sigma: Thanks, I'm keeping open communication and am keeping emotions out of my reactions. I don't lash out in these moments and just try to let them be and move on.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm just going to continue with this thread instead of making another one. I'm mainly processing things, but I welcome
comments/suggestions. 

4 1/2 months post D-Day. Continued no contact with EA partner. Still reading "NOT Just Friends" and waiting for wife to catch up (she started reading it after I did).

Things are slowly getting better. My wife is talking to me in a more conversational manner; sharing what has happened with her day and other things that she had stopped doing. I took her out for dinner on her birthday last month (Oct.) and that went well. I think that she was a little disappointed that I didn't get her a "physical" present, but I had a limited budget and the dinner was at a higher-end restaurant and I meant that and the cake I got her to be her presents from me. She was ok with it, but I could tell that she was hoping for something else, as well. 

I had a hard time figuring out what to get her because even though things have improved between us after my EA, things are still in a very awkward place for us relationship-wise. I get the feeling that she has one foot out of the relationship and is very skittish and uncertain about staying. I have been trying to let things develop and haven't brought up the state of things yet because I wanted to give her some time after the last outburst she had where she said that she hated me for what I did. It's hard to recover from things like that, put on a brave face and keep smiling but that what happens when you aren't faithful. 

I don't really feel like I can be myself around her completely. By "being myself" I mean, being outwardly upbeat around her when I feel it. Seeing that so much is now gone in terms of intimacy, I don't really know what we have. For example, before going to sleep, we used to say, "Sleep well", to each other. There were many times where she'd say it first. Now, if I don't say it, it doesn't get said. I did an experiment for three nights last week where I didn't say anything to her before going to sleep and she didn't, either. I was disappointed that little things like that don't seem to matter to her much any more. I've gone back to saying "sleep well" to her just to keep some consistency and to show that I do care. 

Sleeping in the same bed, but apart, is probably the most awkward part of this. It's difficult to put on a happy face when your libido continues to nag and you can't touch the person you're with because they aren't ready for any of it. I do what I need to do to take the edge off (no wandering involved, except for "Queen Palm and the Five Subjects"), but it's definitely not enough. I really crave sexual contact, but I know that there's only two solutions for that: my wife and I get to a point of being able to be intimate again or the marriage ends and I get my needs fulfilled. Thankfully, I have other ways to channel some of that energy. 

I'll just keep trying, I guess that's all there is to it.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You've got to rebuild her to the point where she is comfortable being intimate (sexually and emotionally) with you, as opposed to giving her little test like not saying sleep well. Understand that she noticed you didn't say it, and I'd bet money that the conclusion she drew, right or wrong, was that you didn't because you were laying on your side of the bed thinking about your AP. 

You've got pour it on man - some part of her believes that you would really rather run off with the OW - imagine having to live with that thought about her in your head - it would be incredibly hard. Make her believe that she's the one and only. Don't go beta with it because that will turn her off, but show her that she's the apple of your eye. I would say be a little more direct and alpha in sexual intimacy but that's such a touchy subject so I hesitate to say that. There is the distinct possibility that she's waiting for and wanting you to "take" her or "show her how much you love her" but there's no way to be sure that would be sound advice without way more info than we can ever get here. Just be aware it's a possibility, but it's also possible that she's just not ready for that yet. Only you can read those road signs.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

@tm84: It sounds like you are committed 100% to rebuilding your marriage. Good for you.

Are you "acting" like you think you should with regards to rebuilding, or do you feel that it's really what should happen?

I'm asking because I'm having a difficult time accepting the label I earned with my EA.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> You've got to rebuild her to the point where she is comfortable being intimate (sexually and emotionally) with you, as opposed to giving her little test like not saying sleep well. Understand that she noticed you didn't say it, and I'd bet money that the conclusion she drew, right or wrong, was that you didn't because you were laying on your side of the bed thinking about your AP.
> 
> You've got pour it on man - some part of her believes that you would really rather run off with the OW - imagine having to live with that thought about her in your head - it would be incredibly hard. Make her believe that she's the one and only. Don't go beta with it because that will turn her off, but show her that she's the apple of your eye. I would say be a little more direct and alpha in sexual intimacy but that's such a touchy subject so I hesitate to say that. There is the distinct possibility that she's waiting for and wanting you to "take" her or "show her how much you love her" but there's no way to be sure that would be sound advice without way more info than we can ever get here. Just be aware it's a possibility, but it's also possible that she's just not ready for that yet. Only you can read those road signs.


The "sleep well" thing was kind of childish and wasn't productive in any way whatsoever, other than to confirm that things are different now.

As for pouring it on, I've been doing little things to let her know how important she is to me. I don't think she's ready for sexual intimacy yet, so I'm not pushing the subject. There are too many other things to work out before we get to that.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

HerToo said:


> @tm84: It sounds like you are committed 100% to rebuilding your marriage. Good for you.
> 
> Are you "acting" like you think you should with regards to rebuilding, or do you feel that it's really what should happen?
> 
> I'm asking because I'm having a difficult time accepting the label I earned with my EA.


Thanks, yeah, I'm in it 100%.

I've been making sure to let her know that I'm committed to rebuilding our marriage and I know that it takes time. I, too, have found it difficult to keep a positive attitude sometimes because of how angry my wife has been (and for good reason). I have moments when I question whether it is worth it to keep going and then we have a week like this one where we have actual conversations and even laugh. However, I know that just under the surface there's still a world of hurt there.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm not in a good place right now. I'm trying, but it's so discouraging that my wife won't let me in emotionally, even a little. We have no conversation and what little we do have is like pulling teeth to get her to say anything to me. I know that she's having a tough time and I want to help her by at least being there to listen to her, but she refuses to say anything, so I back off and keep my feelings to myself. I don't want much, just some sort of benchmark as to how she's feeling and what's going on. It really hurts to see the cats getting the best of her attention and I'm left to my increasingly negative feelings.

Being shut out like this is pushing me to the limit. I can't tell how many times over the past few days that I've thought about calling it quits. I'm having a really hard time keeping the reserves of good feelings up. When I'm at work or otherwise occupied with my creative pursuits, I'm fine. I get home, say 'hi' and can barely get a whisper of acknowlegement out of her. 

I've been wanting to have a direct talk about our situation for a while, but at the same time, I'm also trying to take time and examine my own feelings and reactions to make sure that I choose my battles carefully. I don't want to push her away and cause more anger, but the way that she's pushing me away is really pushing the limits of my willingness to keep trying for a good outcome. I'm becoming more convinced that she has no love left for me and resents everything about being with me and being in the U.S. because of marrying me. 

On one hand, I want this to work, but on the other, I still need some sort of motivation from her to keep going. Just some glimmer of hope that I'm doing something good. Maybe I'm asking too much, maybe I'm living a fantasy and this won't be more than two married people living like strangers. My feeling is that if things haven't improved in perhaps 6 months, maybe I should just let it go.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Well, I suppose that it was worth trying. When I came home from work, I pushed a little for a conversation with her to see what she's been thinking and feeling lately. At least now I some idea and it's pretty bad. 

I told her that I wanted us to try and have more communication about what has been going on than we have up to this point. Basically, she doesn't want to communicate with me. She wasn't happy about having to pretend that things were ok when we were out at an event recently and is more than upset with me. 

"You should have thought about me a year ago" referring to a period where my EA went to the point of exchanging sexual emails with photos. I'm extremely sad again after having thought that some progress had been made. I'll have to remind myself for the future that this is never going away. 

The only good thing to come out of tonight's "talk" was that I didn't lose my composure, nor let my emotions get the worse of me. I don't know how I'm going to convince her that I have always loved and still love and care for her. She doesn't believe me and nothing I'm saying or doing seems to be helping.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Can't remember - are the two of you going to marriage counseling? Sounds like it might really help.

You're right - this is never going away. You can't undo the past but the two of you can affect the future. It sounds to me like you want to rug sweep the whole thing and that she's afraid to start letting herself process it all - maybe because she's resistant to your sentiments that she should put it behind her?

She's got to find her own way and time. You can't expect her to do anything other than whatever is right for her. All you can do is be there for her - without an agenda - when she is ready. 

I understand it's hard but you need to get the feelings of resentment and negative thoughts out of your head. You've got an emotional debt to her that you can't repay with those feelings confusing things.


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## sinkingfeeling (May 20, 2011)

I think it's really good that you so know what you did was wrong and it does sound like you are trying hard. Believe me, if my WH was trying even a tiny bit as hard, life would be so much easier. But he doesn't care enough. 

It does sound like you are in a bit of deadlock and she can't get past stuff. I can understand her response too. Her guard is up and sometimes the demons just get you. I can go for days being happy and cool with the world and then out of nowhere the pin will be pulled from my grenade and it will go off in spectacular fashion. 

You need a combination of trying to talk to her about some of the things you've said on here and probably counselling. Otherwise you do risk her remaining in the one foot out of the door camp which she probably doesn't really want to be in but is doing it for self-preservation (I know as I'm in it too). 

Good luck and well done for trying to make things better. Just don't hurry things along too much. As you probably found out already, the grass ain't greener.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Can't remember - are the two of you going to marriage counseling? Sounds like it might really help.
> 
> You're right - this is never going away. You can't undo the past but the two of you can affect the future. It sounds to me like you want to rug sweep the whole thing and that she's afraid to start letting herself process it all - maybe because she's resistant to your sentiments that she should put it behind her?
> 
> ...


We haven't gone to marriage counseling yet. Schedules and money are big factors at the moment. I have found a possible solution that I hope we can pursue soon. 

I'm far from trying to rug-sweep the situation, just the opposite-I've been trying to *engage* her about what has happened and where we are now. The only agenda I have is the hope of having a marriage left to put back together or preparing to move on somehow.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

sinkingfeeling said:


> I think it's really good that you so know what you did was wrong and it does sound like you are trying hard. Believe me, if my WH was trying even a tiny bit as hard, life would be so much easier. But he doesn't care enough.
> 
> It does sound like you are in a bit of deadlock and she can't get past stuff. I can understand her response too. Her guard is up and sometimes the demons just get you. I can go for days being happy and cool with the world and then out of nowhere the pin will be pulled from my grenade and it will go off in spectacular fashion.
> 
> ...



I understand her position in terms of self-preservation, as well. As she said last night, "For the first time in my life I'm not worrying about anyone else but myself..." Yes, counselling will help as soon as I can figure out scheluling and money. 

I'm learning a lot about patience, empathy, and committment through this experience. I just wish it didn't take destroying my marriage and relationship to get here. 

Thanks.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

tm84 said:


> GM: Thank you. It was one of those nights that had me wondering if I have the fortitude to continue. It was a hard reminder of the magnitude of what I have caused. It's hard and sad, but I'm going to keep trying somehow.


When things are rough, I advise the WS to harken back to all the fun and excitement attendant to his or her affair , to get through. It is one of the many advantages the WS has that the BS does not, this cache of fun memories.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Arnold said:


> When things are rough, I advise the WS to harken back to all the fun and excitement attendant to his or her affair , to get through. It is one of the many advantages the WS has that the BS does not, this cache of fun memories.


Are you serious?! or trolling? Either way, there is *no way *that I'm going to let myself get caught up in thinking about the OW! I've spent the past five months getting her out of my head so that I could focus on my wife, our life together and how to repair the damage done. 

It's still early in my recovery from "the fog" and every now and then I'll have a fleeting thought about OW, but just as quickly remove it and focus on something else. The only memories that I care to let linger are the happier ones I shared with my wife before D-Day occured. They might make me sad in light of what has happened, but they also give me hope for a future with my wife.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I was taking a bit of a shot at you. But, you need to realize that a BS, like your wife, is going to think things like this.
So, with all the literature saying it takes 2-5 years, minimum , to recover, and you acting as if you cannot take it, only 5 months in, maybe you need to be a LOT more patient.

And, acting upbeat, may not ,exactly , be sending her the right message. Let's see:" I just abused my wife in the most serious way imagineable. Yeah, I know, I will act upbeat around her. That should let her know that i appreciate the gravitty of what I did."WTF?


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Arnold said:


> I was taking a bit of a shot at you. But, you need to realize that a BS, like your wife, is going to think things like this.
> So, with all the literature saying it takes 2-5 years, minimum , to recover, and you acting as if you cannot take it, only 5 months in, maybe you need to be a LOT more patient.
> 
> And, acting upbeat, may not ,exactly , be sending her the right message. Let's see:" I just abused my wife in the most serious way imagineable. Yeah, I know, I will act upbeat around her. That should let her know that i appreciate the gravitty of what I did."WTF?


Intellectually, I know that there is a lot of distance left to go for any kind of recovery, but the hard work for my part, in the moment, is managing my own emotions/anxieties and focusing on her. 

By "upbeat", I meant perhaps sharing a funny anecdote about the day, not whistling or dancing around the house. Most of the time, I mainly keep to myself and don't say anything to her besides what's necessary or if she initiates conversation.


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