# This site confirms I probably won't get married



## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

Been looking for ways to help a buddy out who just found out his wife of two years has been cheating on him. Out of all the topics on this site the most popular (other then general discussion) is overwhelmingly:

Coping w/ Infidelity 9,417 threads 313,877 posts
Going through a Divorce or Seperation 6,557 threads 129,899 posts

I'm a 26 year single male and this forum kind of cements my choice to not get married. There is over a 50% chance your relationship will end in divorce and a somewhat recent study showed that in college educated couples the woman will file for divorce 90% of the time. Yes, 90%. My close friend married his college sweetheart two years ago. Great career (CPA), smart, funny, and just an overall good guy. Long story short she got bored playing house and decided to go out to clubs with her single friends and hook-up with random men. On top of that I just witnessed my best friend's parents go through a divorce not too long ago. They were my next door neighbors growing up and were basically my second set of parents through grade school and college. I've never seen a better couple in my life. Well not too long ago his mother started hanging around her divorced friends. After a few years she decided married life wasn't for her anymore. Now she is going out, getting hammered drunk (she rarely drank prior to this), and hooking up with men my age. All on his father's dime. He's absolutely devastated. It scares the **** out of me someone can change like that. She even admits his father didn't do anything wrong but that she didn't want to waste what "youth" she had left (she's late 40s/early 50s). Wtf. Why are there so many shameless ****s out there now? Is this a phenomenon in the Western world? I've dated around plenty and have had a few long-term relationships. I just don't think I'll ever take the plunge.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

There are plenty of good women out there. Just take your time, observe the red flags and filter out the faulty one's.


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## gbonham77 (Feb 21, 2013)

you can get married by choosing the right woman but if she cheats then divorce no forgiveness


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Well its your choice but don't be scared of life and the challenges it throws your way. You lose half the battle by being afraid. And its not just women cheating, men cheat plenty too. What you need to do is have a game plan in the event that you do get cheated on so that you can keep your sh!t together and pull through in one piece. 

And people need to be a little more realistic about relationships and other people. What I've witnessed here is that most of the betrayed spouses are in denial that their other halves could cheat on them. As far as I know any one with a penis or a vagina can have sex with anyone with the complementary set of copulatioryorgans so anyone can cheat on anyone.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

You are too young to have such a fatalistic attitude. You have plenty of time to explore your options and find the right person for you. While there are plenty of stories on this board, there is a reason why people come here ... you aren't going to see much of the other side. There ARE plenty of women with character who will not cheat on their spouse. There are plenty of women here on this board who would never cheat on their spouse but are here because they were betrayed by their husband. Actually, I think it might be helpful to read through these stories; you may be able to identify the warning signs.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

JustPuzzled said:


> Steady on there, lad! I know the 50% stat for all marriages. True, apparently, and true among people I know.
> 
> *90% of college gals? What? Cite the source, please.
> *
> ...


_Brinig, Margaret; Douglas W. Allen (2000). "These Boots Are Made for Walking: Why Most Divorce Filers are Women". American Law and Economics Review 2 (1): 126–129._


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There are many joys that can be associated with sharing one's life with a really good woman. I can't think of any that require a ceremony and a piece of paper and even though I've been married over 30 years I'd be hard pressed to explain how the institution is a great or even fair deal for the average man. If you were a young woman, I could sell you on marriage all day long.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

keko said:


> There are plenty of good women out there. Just take your time, observe the red flags and filter out the faulty one's.


There are some out there but there definitely isn't "plenty". A lot of them are very promiscuous in their 20s and once they hit 30 they want a "good guy" who's dumb enough to settle down with them. I'm pretty good at spotting red flags. Luckily most of the girls I've dated have been pretty cool. Only dated one chick that was nuts.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

You go to a cheating thread of course you're going to read about adultery and betrayal. I know there a long term success marriage section (even though a new post over there has someone thinking about starting an affair) if there was a thread for all the happily married folks or the ones just chugging along fine, raising families etc then there would be some semblance of balance.

Being cheated on sucks and yes it does change you, but life is about taking risks, we give our hearts to people despite the red flags because you just want to be happy. Lots of perfectly fine and balanced people who also just want to be happy with someone in their life.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> There are many joys that can be associated with sharing one's life with a really good woman. I can't think of any that require a ceremony and a piece of paper and even though I've been married over 30 years I'd be hard pressed to explain how the institution is a great or even fair deal for the average man. If you were a young woman, I could sell you on marriage all day long.


I disagree entirely. And even though more women file for divorce, more men still cheat (only marginally more). And if you are a woman who has been married and has children, you are more likely to sacrifice your career, and live in poverty after divorce.

OP there are plenty of reasons why marriage can be great. 

It can create a family, and no money can buy that. It does offer greater security and commitment, and both men and women mess marriages up, by not being prepared, by not putting the effort in and by not having good boundaries.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

You can base your facts on others statistics. Each marriage is different from the other. Some have issues to pan out while others do not.

My husband and I have a very strong and successful marriage. We are extremely compatible, we communicate and compromise very well. We absolutely adored each other.

I'm looking forward to his early retirement, so we can have more time to do things together. Neither of us are unfaithful and we treat each other with the upmost respect.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

What you have here, is a bunch of people who had little idea of what to do to fix their problems. They don't teach this stuff at school. 

I think marriage is worthwhile still. I have a reading list now, that would very much help avoid the problems I have experienced. C'est la vie though, sometimes you just don't even know what you don't know.

Read John Gottman's books, and Michele Wiener Davis', Athol Kay's MMSLP, Shirley Glass' NJF, 5 Love Languages, Laurie Puhn's Fight Less, Love More. That will give you a good solid basis, and help you communicate effectively to avoid big problems.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

The key is not to get married until you are sure you have the right one. Many, many, many people who end up here ignored HUGE redflags and even warning from their spouses families. 

And when you do find that person NEVER build your life around them. Your spouse is supposed to enhance your life not become it.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Don't be silly. Marriage is wonderful, but it is your choice.
And stats are misleading.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I don't need a piece of paper to build a family. How, exactly, does marriage offer a man security? I've got a German Shepherd that gives me security but any marital security around here goes straight to the wife. That piece of paper doesn't mean they'll stay. It doesn't mean they won't fool around. It doesn't mean she'll have sex, cook, work, or anything else. It does mean I'm responsible for any financial obligations she racks up. It does mean if we have kids, there's an 80% chance or better that she'll get custody if the marriage fails and she'll probably get the house, too. Women statistically make 80% of household spending decisions so if the marriage is a success, I lose 80% control of my earnings and if it fails, I lose only 50%. Statistically, she'll live 7-10 years longer than I will, so she even wins there.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> I don't need a piece of paper to build a family. How, exactly, does marriage offer a man security? I've got a German Shepherd that gives me security but any marital security around here goes straight to the wife. That piece of paper doesn't mean they'll stay. It doesn't mean they won't fool around. It doesn't mean she'll have sex, cook, work, or anything else. It does mean I'm responsible for any financial obligations she racks up. It does mean if we have kids, there's an 80% chance or better that she'll get custody if the marriage fails and she'll probably get the house, too. Women statistically make 80% of household spending decisions so if the marriage is a success, I lose 80% control of my earnings and if it fails, I lose only 50%. Statistically, she'll live 7-10 years longer than I will, so she even wins there.


That's not true in our marriage. I'd rather not spend a dime, but I am responsible for the bills. My husband does 99% of the shopping around here. If something were to ever happen between us, custody would be 50/50. He's a fabulous father, husband and role model.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

I've been married to a wonderful woman, who made a stupid mistake, for 20 years this year. It's been the joy of my life.

The problem for many people is, they view getting married as an event. It's not. Marriage is a constant process. The work starts the day AFTER the wedding. 

But the rewards are so worth it!!! You see this many posts and pages of hurt not because marriage is awful, but because marriage is WORTH SAVING.

Marriage is work, patience, endurance at times, bliss at others. It's a process of opening yourself to another so completely that there is nothing left hiding. (That's why betrayal hurts so deeply.) You start out as lovers and end up as best friends. It's a wonderful way to spend your life.

Don't misread these posts as being in misery being married. We are trying to SAVE what was so precious to us.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Well said island


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## Ryan_sa (May 8, 2012)

Eventually you'll find a woman you want to spend the rest of your life with. When you find her, Take it slow, keep your eyes open and have a fantastic life.
My 1st love, who I was with for about 6 years really screwed me over, and I thought I would never get married after that.
Then I met my wife, we were together for nearly 10 years before we finally got married, and yes we have tough days, but I happily believe we'll grow old together.
My ex taught me a lot though - don't blindly believe everything your told, keep life interesting for both of you don't take your relationship for granted, trust but verify etc etc.
If my marriage doesn't work, I'll be heartbroken, but I'll survive and learn and grow.

Read this post http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-t...h-do-we-part-my-love-then-grab-me-you-go.html and think of the ratio of people who are happily married that have never thought to visit a forum like this, to the people that are hurt and posting here to find a way through.

Also, Never Say never


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

omoplata said:


> She even admits his father didn't do anything wrong but that she didn't want to waste what "youth" she had left (she's late 40s/early 50s). Wtf. Why are there so many shameless ****s out there now? Is this a phenomenon in the Western world? I've dated around plenty and have had a few long-term relationships. I just don't think I'll ever take the plunge.


I'm sure there are many reasons, but I personally believe our youth obsessed culture has a lot to do with it. A lot (not all) people today are raised with "me first" values.

The sad thing is that for a lot of these late 40/early 50 ish women, the clock doesn't stop ticking, and 10 years later they are 60, alone, and have families who have rightfully turned their backs on them. And for what ? Some fleeting sexual gratification ?


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## Ryan_sa (May 8, 2012)

Got to add though, Im fairly pro forgiveness and trying not to let a "small"mistake end an otherwise good relationship, I forgave plenty with my ex, and it occurred to me just now, If I'd read this forum all those years ago, I could have saved myself a huge amount of heart ache by picking up the red flags, not rug sweeping etc etc and I would probably have married her - in which case I would never have met my wife. It almost makes me glad ex screwed around so much!


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

I have to agree somewhat I thought I had the one that would never cheat. I never thought in a million years that I would be going through what I am now. All the research in the world will never helpyou find one that will not cheat.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

It is a mistake to think you can just pick someone who won't cheat. What you need to realise, is that a marriage takes work, constant work. It is all the little choices you make, each and everyday, that will make or break it.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Why are there so many shameless ****s out there now?


For the same reason there are so many shameless manw5ores out there.... In fact men are actually ahead of women in the infidelity realm. Not that it matters. Wrecking other people's lives should never be a competition...

Society has undergone so many _huge_ changes since the late 1960s, and I'm afraid there are some who just haven't handled it very well. Many people have become so self-absorbed and entitlement minded, that their main focus in life is making sure that their own needs/wants/desires are fulfilled, no matter what, that they'll literally crap in their own nests rather than compromise and/or practice any form of restraint.

It's easy to get disillusioned, OP, but there really are some good men and women out there. You just have to be discerning and find someone with the same values as yourself.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

In the majority of the marriages that went south that you can read about on TAM, you'll notice that sooner or later, you will see a smoking gun that started the marital problems in the first place. Just a short list of things that spouses have done in order to sow the seeds of discontent within the marriage. And most affairs start as a result of unhappiness within the marriage. That doesn't mean that the affairs are justified - affairs are never justified - but a cheating spouse can point to one or more issues that helped "make their decision to cheat easier". Look at what we observe as marriage killers:


Excessive use of video games (WOW, F-book games, etc)
One or both spouses not communicating when problems pop up
Too much individuality maintained within the marriage. For example: his and her bank accounts, his and her vacations, etc.
The belief that privacy must be maintained in the exact same way as if the husband and wife were single people living under the same roof.
Failure to keep an eye on your spouse to ensure that they do not "get themselves into trouble"
Passive/Aggressive "boundary setting", i.e. "she can do whatever she wants, but she knows that A, B and/or C upsets me. I won't tell her NOT to do these things, but she KNOWS that I don't like it...
Allowing the kids to monopolize ALL of the time - no time left to share as a couple.
Lacking awareness of proper boundaries (as a BS), i.e. trusting a spouse to spend a lot of alone time with your best friend, for example

And plenty of other issues that others may add.

The bottom line is that in the 2 examples you cite in your OP, most likely at least one of these issues popped up and caused damage prior to any cheating occurring.

Also - food for thought concerning your friend's parents. You only saw the image that they wanted to project. You do not know what life was really like in their household. Don't be surprised if 1) your friends mom has cheated before but no one knew about it and 2) your friend's dad neglected his wife and helped to build the distance that developed in their marriage.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> You are too young to have such a* fatalistic attitude*. You have plenty of time to explore your options and find the right person for you.


Omo,

I agree with this. You need to go ahead and find that perfect girl... settle down... have a few kids... roll-up a sh!tload of debt...

Then wake up 20 years down the road and find out that she has been screwing, her boss, her HS boyfriend, and who knows else for years. All while you were busting your a$$ in hopes of a "perfect" marriage.

*NOW you can have that fatalistic "attitude towards." * You've earned it.

Oh... in 20 years when you post your "I never thought it would happen to me" thread here at CWI, you get a pat on the back and sorry to welcome you aboard brother from all of us.

Trust no-one.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

omoplata said:


> Coping w/ Infidelity 9,417 threads 313,877 posts
> Going through a Divorce or Seperation 6,557 threads 129,899 posts


The problem with citing this specifically is that some of them are new threads started by the same poster, on a related subject, rather than put it all into one thread. Some of the posts themselves are snarky/sarcastic replies... not very helpful.

Some of those posts are by people asking for advice to keep it from happening TO THEM. 

And some of these posts are trolls, or troll-ish.. but people are (mostly) reluctant to call someone/something a troll because it COULD be true. 

Oh, then there is the occasional post saying "I'm never going to get married because of statistics/how many posts are in CWI/divorce & separation forums" 

But we also have those occasional posters who come back and update...even when things are going well. Or the occasional post saying "hey, you who are showing remorse and are doing all you can to fix the marriage...well done!"

The point is, you can't base your decion on two subforums on one site. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion on marriage. But there are some of us who do feel it is worth fighting for. My husband and I both screwed up. But we have worked to rebuild. We're not perfect. We still have our problems. But we HAVE improved a lot since I joined here. And we agree that, even with the emotional infidelity we both were involved in, if we could go back and choose again whether to marry each other or not...knowing then what we know now... we'd still marry each other. 

Sometimes marriages work out. Sometimes they don't. But to say "I'm never getting married because TAM CWI and divorce/separation forums say she's just going to cheat anyway" is ridiculous.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Is your friend going to divorce his wife? Tell him to get tested for STD's as well.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think it is good that you have been reading these boards. So you know what can and often happens.

Have fun in your relationships and eventually it might just happen. You will meet the one and you will spend all your time together. Eventually you will wonder why you are paying for two apartments when one is always empty. After a bit, you will see friends and family with kids and you will think how great it would be to have your own. You will have kids and make sacrifices for them and your family. Life circumstance will change and you will either do it together or grow apart. She might cheat on you or you might cheat on her. You might make it or you might not. (notice I didn't mention getting married at all .... to me, it is just a piece of paper). 

I really don't think you have a choice. It will just happen. 

Enjoy it! I will soon be married for 25 years and my kids are starting to leave home. Their days of doing sports and activities where I take them and watch them grow are almost over. My marriage isn't very good (no infidelity that I know of) but I wouldn't change much of what we have gone through.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Start here:The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

Then read THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES then HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS etc.

Every man, especially young man needs to read MMSLP. It totally explains what a man needs to do to keep a marriage on track. If that doesn't work the wife is mentally damaged beyond help.

( BTW, MMSLP is not a sex manual as the title seems to imply)


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Prenup

Prenup

Prenup

When getting married, those are the three magic words, to keep you from paying for your wife when she decides its time to shag other men.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

you don't make a decision to marry based on stats, especially from a site with biased stats as it's about marital problems or base your decision on people who have been unfaithful.

You make the decision based on love. you can not quantify it, you can't rationalize it....you probably won't even see it coming.

but when you meet the person that makes you want to say goodbye to all the other women you'll want her to do the same with the men she knows. and build a life together.

I would think a LOT of people who are happily married probably thought the same way you do before they met that certain someone.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

At least "probably" means you might. 

I thought my husband would never cheat because someone in HIS past cheated on him, and it hurt him SO badly that I thought my marriage was affair-proof, because I knew I wouldn't stray. Was *I* wrong (he cheated). 

I learned that ALL marriages take WORK. 

We must pay attention, keep alert, even to the LITTLE things. Sometimes there's a perfect storm - he had some anxiety and mild depression (so he saw the homelife glass as half empty), a female friend from his past had a problem that he could help with (Mr White Knight - big ego boost, plus a reasonable excuse to text and be on the phone with her a lot), I had a health issue that made me seem like more of a drag for awhile, etc. OPPORTUNITIES can present themselves when people are vulnerable. Then the slippery slope.... 

But, I'm hoping that we can work it out. 

50% of marriages fail - that means 50% don't. My parents had a WONDERFUL marriage that lasted over 60 years. The way my father cared for my mother in her last years even brought tears to the eyes of the Hospice nurse - especially when he sang to her.

Marriage is a risk, but if you don't take risks, you could be missing out on a lot of what life has to offer.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm going to get slammed and I know its not true in all cases, but if a woman likes a lot of variety, if you know what I mean, before she's married, that ain't likely to change. They are not good at relationships. (the same is true for men )


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> Prenup
> 
> Prenup
> 
> ...


Almost...More Correctly,

1) Background Check
2) Credit History
3) Prenup
4) Known up front, NO SECOND CHANCE, period.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I'm going to get slammed and I know its not true in all cases, but if a woman likes a lot of variety, if you know what I mean, before she's married, that ain't likely to change. They are not good at relationships. (the same is true for men )


This is why in my book the past isn't simply the past. In past relationships I always asked about what they were up to before me. It wasn't to get off on their exploits, fulfill a cuckold fetish or to deal with jealousy. I wanted to know about who she was as a person. You can make a lot of judgements about someone based on their past. Some people believe that past is the past and that the slate should be wiped clean at the start of a new relationship. I disagree because I believe that the decisions we make in the past play a huge role in shaping who we are today.


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## Garm (Mar 11, 2013)

I understand how you feel. There were some red flags before I got married. I was too insecure to end the relationship then. I did not have enough confidence in myself. 
If you see a red flag, end the relationship before you get married. If she cheats before marriage, she will cheat again after you're married.


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## thelovetrip (Mar 19, 2013)

Love happens brother! If you are so consumed about looking at the pitfalls of marriage, or anything in life for that matter, then that's what you're life will end up as. Here is a approach that may change the way you look at the love trip, or, life in general. Instead of thinking about marriage or life in a negative way, or at a statistical approach, begin to only visit and surround yourself with stories of success. Failure will happen if you believe it to be so. I personally have been married for 23 awesome years. I wouldn't trade my life or give up the love trip I've been on for anything. There are many reasons why marriage fails, but there are many more reasons why it works.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

ThePheonix said:


> I'm going to get slammed and I know its not true in all cases, but if a woman likes a lot of variety, if you know what I mean, before she's married, that ain't likely to change. They are not good at relationships. (the same is true for men )


I disagree with this. 

How people are when they are young and not attached has nothing to do with how they are once they are in a committed relationship. 

I slept with 12 different girls during a 4 month period when I was 19. I was making my rounds. 

I have now been in a marriage for 25 years and have never cheated.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> You start out as lovers and *end up as best friends*. It's a wonderful way to spend your life.


You mean like hearing your spouse one day say the infamous "I love you but not in love with you" line? :smthumbup:


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> You mean like hearing your spouse one day say the infamous "I love you but not in love with you" line? :smthumbup:


Except that not everyone gets that line. That's the point InlandTXMM was making. Sometimes, those lovers are best friends, married for the rest of their lives, without either of them straying. I can name quite a few couples like that, just off the top of my head.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> You mean like hearing your spouse one day say the infamous "I love you but not in love with you" line? :smthumbup:


Possibly. If the guy gets all comfortable and "beta", you can bet that line comes at some point.

It is definitely work.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

You don't need to marry just find a good woman who shares your POV and live life however you see fit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

omoplata said:


> Been looking for ways to help a buddy out who just found out his wife of two years has been cheating on him. Out of all the topics on this site the most popular (other then general discussion) is overwhelmingly:
> 
> Coping w/ Infidelity 9,417 threads 313,877 posts
> Going through a Divorce or Seperation 6,557 threads 129,899 posts
> ...


this is what I will tell my boys.

there are not gaurantees that the one who loves you will always love you so you will need to protect yourself at all costs!

prenup for sure but. I will advise aginst any type of marriage. its a dead institution that takes advanatage of the more honest partner.

I believe men and women are equaly devious/cheater/narrisists/abusive. 

and you are under obligations to protect yourself through what ever means avalible to you. even not getting maried in the first place.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

omoplata said:


> I'm a 26 year single male and this forum kind of cements my choice to not get married. There is over a 50% chance your relationship will end in divorce ...


I admire your realistic attitude. If more people recognized the reality of the world in which we live, there would be both fewer marriages and fewer divorces.



> Why are there so many shameless ****s out there now? Is this a phenomenon in the Western world? I've dated around plenty and have had a few long-term relationships. I just don't think I'll ever take the plunge.


Both men and women have biological urges that go against monogamy. Men want to spread their seed and women are naturally hypergamous. That hasn't changed.

Much has changed. For one, people no longer feel ashamed by their actions. Decades ago, adultery inspired works like The Scarlet Letter. Now, we get Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy. Also, marriage is no longer seen as a life-long commitment to another person, as well as a covenant with God. Now, it's seen as a tax haven.

Also, people have no realistic sense of what life after marriage will be like. Men think they will be dating college cheerleaders for the rest of their life. Women think that billionaire pirate-captain vampires will pursue them giving them a second chance at marital bliss. The reality that both sexes (although women more than men) will likely end up at home, alone is usually not considered.

So, with the right person, in the right environment, marriage can be great. Unfortunately, we don't have the right environment for marriage. And we probably never will again. So I fully support your decision to refrain from committing your emotions and resources to a woman who will have external incentives to cheat on you and divorce you.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> Also, people have no realistic sense of what life after marriage will be like. Men think they will be dating college cheerleaders for the rest of their life. Women think that billionaire pirate-captain vampires will pursue them giving them a second chance at marital bliss.


:rofl: :smthumbup: :lol:


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Disagree with PHTs conclusion, but agree with all his points. Our biological predisposition is tempered by our superior intelligence. Our society needs marriages. And I disagree that he shouldn't commit resources to a woman. The theory is this energy produces a synergy...the married couple complements their strengths and covers each others weaknesses...making each a better person, thus making society better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Gseries said:


> Disagree with PHTs conclusion, but agree with all his points. Our biological predisposition is tempered by our superior intelligence. Our society needs marriages. And I disagree that he shouldn't commit resources to a woman. The theory is this energy produces a synergy...the married couple complements their strengths and covers each others weaknesses...making each a better person, thus making society better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Which only ends up working out 50% of the time if that.

The OP has a valid point about the value of marriage as it pertains to himself.

I'm not a gambling man, I'd never take those odds in any other respect.
I can see why he wouldn't want to take then when the wager is literally his life.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

omoplata said:


> Been looking for ways to help a buddy out who just found out his wife of two years has been cheating on him. Out of all the topics on this site the most popular (other then general discussion) is overwhelmingly:
> 
> Coping w/ Infidelity 9,417 threads 313,877 posts
> Going through a Divorce or Seperation 6,557 threads 129,899 posts
> ...


The BEST advice I could give anyone regarding marriage is to WAIT! Give it 5 years. What is the hurry? Take your time and see what this other person is like 5 years from when you met them. It is nearly impossible for anyone to "stand on their head" and put on a show for 4 or 5 years.

Also, don't "settle". If you're not head over heals in love, don't do it. You don't "learn to love" someone over time. The beginning is likely the most intense and best it will get. The loyalty and closeness can certainly improve over time, but it's hard to remain attracted to someone who is really not "the person" for you.

There are too many divorces and too much infidelity because people rush in and marry people they don't even truly know. The woman (man) who is the "love of my life" at one year or two years can turn into a raging lunatic devoid of any sex drive, reasoning, accountability, responsibility, loyalty, or affection over the course of a couple years... especially once they've got a ring on their finger and believe they have you gut hooked and don't have to try as hard.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

omoplata said:


> Been looking for ways to help a buddy out who just found out his wife of two years has been cheating on him. Out of all the topics on this site the most popular (other then general discussion) is overwhelmingly:
> 
> Coping w/ Infidelity 9,417 threads 313,877 posts
> Going through a Divorce or Seperation 6,557 threads 129,899 posts
> ...


Listen you are on the outside of those marriages. You have no idea what really happened not one does. Heck we have had WW come on here playing the i think he cheated game. We pick them apart and find out that the WW is just pullin a bait and switch. Marriage is awesome there are going to be rough times. However getting married to a woman who you find out is bipolar and manic, has been sexually abused , and /or is a sex addict. is disheartening because marriage is a prison for them. Childhood issues can cause adults to be primed to have an affair. Sex addicts are addicted to the rush of new relationships and while a lot of marriages fail. There are very few divorced men and women that don't wish they had gotten married in the first place. Yes they are sad that they married someone who hurt them deeply. But most would not take back the good times they had with thier spouse. Very few stories on here don't end up with my WW begged me not to leave, or WS was sorry and wanted to R. Some WS and LS Reconcile and they have better marriages in the long term than couples that never stray. 
However if marriage was so awful why would people keep trying. 
It takes two people putting in the effort to have a successful marriage. Marriage requires sacrifices. And some people are selfish and stop listening or expected marriage to be some fantasy. Most infidelity stories I have read rarely say we had a great relationship. The stories we hear so often are "I put a lot of time at work and wife was left out, or Spouse suffered a tragedy and I couldn't handle it so I shutdown, or I though something was up but I ignored it. "
Oneday you will meet a woman or already have met a woman, who is single, don't be the OM. You will over time discover that you find yourself with this woman alot. You will tell her things, make her laugh, she will make you feel happy, comfortable, confident. You will feel things that scare the hell out of you. And one day you will realize that that woman has become such a part of your life that losing them to distance, another man, or death would break you. 
Try not marrying that woman and see what happens the first time you see her in the arms of another man.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok, in all seriousness. Please tell me what tangible benefit a man derives from a married relationship that he could not have with in an unmarried long-term (even life-long) relationship? How does that piece of paper benefit the average man? Ok, if she doesn't work, you can claim her as a dependent on your income tax. You can cover her under your health insurance plan or get on her's. Considering the financial liabilities a man incurs when he gets married, those two benefits aren't all that impressive. She can love you, married or not. She can have sex with you, live with you, bear kids, talk, hold hands, skip through daisies, receive your life insurance and inheritance after you die, whether you're married or not.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

OP has a valid fear of winding up on the wrong end of the "Divorce Industrial Complex" we have in the USA.
*
AlbertMohler.com – The Divorce Industrial Complex*


OTOH...50%, huh? Some might think that's it's just a roll of the dice, or a flip of the coin. 

Diff is - the partners have more control over the end result of a marriage than they do a coin toss. Key word: *"partners"* (plural)...both have to work at it to be successful.

Even at 50% failure, for every marriage that ends up in divorce, there's another marriage that does not. 

I'm headed toward my second D (and I hate it, btw), but if I'd had the understanding (about myself and about married relationships) that I have now, I think I'd still be married to wife #1, and I know damn well marriage #2 would still be healthy.

Will I marry again? It's doubtful, but I'm not totally opposed to the idea. The third time might really be the charm. 

.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Unbelievable - Assuming you don't want children (because growing up in the context of a marriage would give your kids a greater sense of security)... if your live-in lady works, she can't take extended time off work to care for you if you get sick - no FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) time off if you're shacking up in the U.S. You're on your own, if you have a stroke or a heart attack or get cancer. You're not considered a "family" so go ahead and live together but just plan on never getting sick.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Mine doesn't work, but I agree that would be a valid benefit. I've never taken any FMLA and neither has she but for those who need it, the marriage status essentially translates into cash. That was a good call. Any others?


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Unbelievable - it works both ways: if SHE gets sick, you can't use FMLA to care for her. And if you did decide to have kids out of wedlock, no FMLA time off when babies arrive either. You would also have to plan on having no pregnancy complications. Also, FMLA isn't just 12 weeks off, it's JOB PROTECTED 12 weeks off.


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## shazam (Nov 7, 2011)

omoplata said:


> Been looking for ways to help a buddy out who just found out his wife of two years has been cheating on him. Out of all the topics on this site the most popular (other then general discussion) is overwhelmingly:
> 
> Coping w/ Infidelity 9,417 threads 313,877 posts
> Going through a Divorce or Seperation 6,557 threads 129,899 posts
> ...


mens odds don't look good anymore, 60-60 percent divorce rate, women initiate most of the time, women now cheat at the same rate as men, men are often in sex less marriages, if you do marry and get divorced you're stuck with alimony and child support 
everyone wants to think their woman is the exception but it's rare, too rare for a guy with any sense to get married


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> There are many joys that can be associated with sharing one's life with a really good woman. *I can't think of any that require a ceremony and a piece of paper* and even though I've been married over 30 years I'd be hard pressed to explain how the institution is a great or even fair deal for the average man. If you were a young woman, I could sell you on marriage all day long.


Exactly. It's 2013...marriage is a stupid decision for a man, 99% of the time. 

The happiest people I know are not married. The most miserable people I know are. 

As a man who was married for over a decade, I can say without a doubt that getting married was the worst decision I ever made, on every level, emotion, physical, definitely financial. 

In most cases, it is not in a mans best interest to get married. Often, it's in his worst interest.

Stupid old outdated contract...no other contract could fawk you over more than that one.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok, we've established that sickly men with employed wives and/or young kids can get 12 weeks of paid leave. Losing at least 50% of all worldly possession, 80% control of your marital earnings, and 50% of your retirement, plus eliminating 100,000,000 other women as potential sexual partners seems like a really dumb way of getting 12 weeks of paid leave. Stay single, put the money you would have spent on a wife in the stock market and in about 5 years, you could tell your boss to get bent and take 52 weeks off every year.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

hopefulgirl said:


> Unbelievable - Assuming you don't want children (because growing up in the context of a marriage would give your kids a greater sense of security)... if your live-in lady works, she can't take extended time off work to care for you if you get sick - no FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) time off if you're shacking up in the U.S. You're on your own, if you have a stroke or a heart attack or get cancer. You're not considered a "family" so go ahead and live together but just plan on never getting sick.


What a bunch of BS! My kids are WAY better off since my divorce. Getting or staying married for the kids is not helping them in any way. If it's bad, you only help them by getting out and showing them what to do and what not to do.

Marriage is similar to religion in that most people do it because their parents did it. It's also similar in that most people aren't buying into it these days.

Just cause you aren't married, you wouldn't take care of your partner if they were sick? Wow, that's rough for your partner...do they know that???

I have been dating a woman for a few years and if she were to get sick, I would be by her side...I don't need a piece of paper for that.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Ok, we've established that sickly men with employed wives and/or young kids can get 12 weeks of paid leave. Losing at least 50% of all worldly possession, 80% control of your marital earnings, and 50% of your retirement, plus eliminating 100,000,000 other women as potential sexual partners seems like a really dumb way of getting 12 weeks of paid leave. Stay single, put the money you would have spent on a wife in the stock market and in about 5 years, you could tell your boss to get bent and take 52 weeks off every year.


Yup. Any woman that need the piece of paper to stay in the relationship...send her packing. 

She needs that security? Just mean she doesn't trust you'll stay, but want you to trust her forever. 

If you have a decade long romance with someone and want to actually walk down the plank, make sure to get iron-clad pre and post nups, or a quick annulment.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

The only reason a guy would want to get married these days is if he wants kids or is a Christian who is bound by church traditions. It's just too risky for the dude. Contrary to popular belief, about 70% of first marriages are successful these days, primarily because the lumpen classes are massively foregoing marriage. The divorce rate for college grad women is only 20%.

However, you wouldn't undertake an operation with a 30% chance of death, unless you were desperate.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> The only reason a guy would want to get married these days is if he wants kids or is a Christian who is bound by church traditions. ...


Both poor reasons to have to get married, IMO.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

In truth, marriage was a necessary arrangement to take care of women and kids for thousands of years because women were unable or not allowed to take care of themselves and mothers were the primary childcare providers. Marriage was a necessary social mechanism to help make sure men took care of their kids and the woman who bore them. 
The world has changed in many ways but the legal obligation for a man to financially support his wife still persists. There is no duty, legal or implied, for a wife to do anything and women on TAMS have expressed exactly that view...that marriage places no obligation on a woman. A contract that places obligations on only one party is a fool's errand.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

Think men are the unfaithful sex? A study shows WOMEN are the biggest cheats - they're just better at lying about it


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

What? Really? This many people think marriage is a waste of time? OP, not an ounce of religious sentiment? Nothing on symbolism? A long term relationship could work, or you could invest 10 years in a woman and she could walk away and you think that's ok?
Marriage is so much more. You need to balance all of these replies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

OP, one thing to never forget:

Betas get their sh!t kicked in during female MLC.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Gseries said:


> What? Really? This many people think marriage is a waste of time? OP, not an ounce of religious sentiment? Nothing on symbolism? A long term relationship could work, or you could invest 10 years in a woman and she could walk away and you think that's ok?
> Marriage is so much more. You need to balance all of these replies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not taking anything from the religious significance or symbolism of the institution. None of that requires government involvement or a change in my legal status. Love is great, flowers are great. I love little birds, sandy beaches, candlelight, etc. I could have every bit of that and a cleric from every one of the hundreds of known religions officiating, but how might my life be advantaged even slightly by dropping by the court house first and getting my relationship recorded with the government? Oh, except the fact that I'll be qualified for FMLA.


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## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

omoplata said:


> _Brinig, Margaret; Douglas W. Allen (2000). "These Boots Are Made for Walking: Why Most Divorce Filers are Women". American Law and Economics Review 2 (1): 126–129._


90% of those who filed are women is different than 90% of women filed for divorce. 

not to nit pick but I think the statistic is that in marriages failing and divorce proceedings it was 90% of the time women who started these proceedings. So roughly 45% out of 50% of the divorces in the US are filed by the woman in the marriage.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

michzz said:


> You misunderstood the statistic. It is not that 90% of college-educated wives file for divorce. It is that in the total of those 50% of marriages that end up in divorce, it is the woman who usually files.


I realize this. That's still a pretty crazy statistic.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Prenup
> 
> Prenup
> 
> ...


Prenups are good in theory. Unfortunately there see more than enough cases of judges overthrowing them in favour of the woman for the most trivial reasons, i.e. she didn't understand what she was signing. 

There is no rational reason for men get married in any western country unless some radical marriage reform is implemented. But good luck finding enough political will to do something about it. You have cases of men going to prison because they couldn't pay child support and alimony which exceded their income. Or child support for children they were deceived into believing were their own. And yet, most men don't care, since it doesn't affect them personally, or think their story will be different since their cupcake would never do that. 

A good change for the better would be to get the government completely out of the institution of marriage. But we know that today, with the ever-increasing big brother that is just not feasible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> The only reason a guy would want to get married these days is if he wants kids or is a Christian who is bound by church traditions. It's just too risky for the dude. Contrary to popular belief, about 70% of first marriages are successful these days, primarily because the lumpen classes are massively foregoing marriage. The divorce rate for college grad women is only 20%.
> 
> However, you wouldn't undertake an operation with a 30% chance of death, unless you were desperate.


That really depends of the stripe of Christian or pseudo-Christian philosophy. For instance, I'm a Roman Catholic who believes that marriage is indissoluble from the point if view of getting additional chances to get it right. So, it's necessary for me to win the Irish sweepstakes and get it right the first time. On top of that, I live in a country where my gender puts me at open and demonstrable disadvantage should I seek to civilly put an end to the common life (which Catholics are permitted to do so long as it's understood that they are not free to seek any degree of companionship while their spouse lives). A lot of people her say "prenup", but isn't that really a catch-22? Don't spouses that sign prenups see it as going into the marriage with the reasonable expectation of failure? I've certainly heard it enough times. Whatever the case, my priest still finds it surprising that a young, educated, financially secure man would be unwilling to play Russian roulette where half the chambers are loaded.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

There are lots of men who will never get married. Then they meet the right person and they insist on getting married. There are so many cases I've seen of men in LTR that haven't married because they are not the marrying kind or never want to marry again, and then they break up with their GF and suddenly get married. Happens all the time. 
There are also women who say they never want to get married. 

My fiancé was in a relationship with a woman when I met him (no no cheating etc, we got together after they broke up) and he said he was never getting married again. 

Funny thing is once we started dating we just seemed to know it was right, and he was asking me all sorts if marriage related questions and then he proposed. Marriage is important to me. I still believe in it. I would never stay with a man who was I romantic like that and didnt believe in marraige. It just wouldn't work for me.

I know lots of happily married men and women, and they both get security from the marriage, exclusivity and yes people say they can get that from LTRs but its just not the same, because people who don't want to get married just want an easy out option. IMO


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

tulsy said:


> Both poor reasons to have to get married, IMO.


Hey, it's not a free country, but you still get decide that for yourself. At least for now.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> My marriage isn't very good (no infidelity that I know of) but I wouldn't change much of what we have gone through.


Total threadjack, but what are you doing to make your marriage better? What is wrong with it?


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

People get food poisoning every day. It doesn't mean you should stop eating.

Marriage has its rewards too. Those rewards are what makes it worth the risk.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

JMGrey said:


> That really depends of the stripe of Christian or pseudo-Christian philosophy. For instance, I'm a Roman Catholic who believes that marriage is indissoluble from the point if view of getting additional chances to get it right.


Understood. But I'm of the Sola Scriptura persuasion. For me anything concocted by the church post 100 AD is highly dubious, at best. As I said, I completely understand your position, which is why I said Christians who follow church traditions will need to get married, due to the sacramental nature of marriage within the RCC and other Christian traditions.


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## shazam (Nov 7, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Prenup
> 
> Prenup
> 
> ...


too bad there are threads like my husband just found out I cheated six years ago, a prenup was voided in court recently, and a prenup only protects your pre marital assets.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Not taking anything from the religious significance or symbolism of the institution. None of that requires government involvement or a change in my legal status. Love is great, flowers are great. I love little birds, sandy beaches, candlelight, etc. I could have every bit of that and a cleric from every one of the hundreds of known religions officiating, but how might my life be advantaged even slightly by dropping by the court house first and getting my relationship recorded with the government? Oh, except the fact that I'll be qualified for FMLA.


So what is it that really bugs you....the governments regulation of marriage or the personal risk? If the government's policies are so useless, I am wondering why there is such a battle to expand the rights of marriage to LGBT right now? The tax breaks you mentioned are a motivation....married people are statistically less apt to rob my house or shoot my dog. There's a reason insurance is cheaper for married people. You are less apt to do stupid things. Society benefits, and so do you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Gseries said:


> So what is it that really bugs you....the governments regulation of marriage or the personal risk?


The personal financial risk is a direct result of the government intrusion into the marriage contract. Ever heard the term "Marriage 2.0"



Gseries said:


> If the government's policies are so useless, I am wondering why there is such a battle to expand the rights of marriage to LGBT right now?


Merely due to their desire to have the imprimatur of the Reich with regards to their sexual proclivities. That will soon turn to ashes in their mouths when they start getting hit for alimony.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Gseries said:


> ....I am wondering why there is such a battle to expand the rights of marriage to LGBT right now? ]


I'm all for GLBT marriage...
they have a right to be just as miserable as everybody else...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Ovid said:


> People get food poisoning every day. It doesn't mean you should stop eating.
> 
> Marriage has its rewards too. Those rewards are what makes it worth the risk.


Well, some types of foods have a much higher probability of causing food poisoning than others, and a smart person will avoid eating those foods, or at least educate himself about the potential risks. 

Right now people should educate themselves about the risks of getting married, meaning the possibility of losing more than half of your hard earned wealth and being enslaved through alimony. Now, consider that marriages have more than 50% failure rate and the possibility of this becomes quite conspicuous. So getting married becomes analogous to consuming food with a high risk of poisoning.


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## Spiderman (Oct 29, 2012)

All I want to say is that you don't really know what is going on behind the doors in these marriages. Lots of marriages look like perfect match from outside so that divorcing will come like a shock for everybody but there are always issues, it's not that somebody just gets bored, i don't believe it. 

The hardest thing I've had to learn in relationships (and especially between man and woman) is that you have to work on it all the time!! You have to try hard not to let it get boring and you have to notice and listen your partner and find solutions for problems which will satisfy BOTH sides.

You see your friend as a perfect husband but maybe there is a reason, unfilled need, his wife had. Maybe you just don't know, maybe even he doesn't know. Or maybe she is just a B. I mean no offence but none of us really knows what really is going on. I am very sure that the story your friend tells differs from his wife's story and both of them believe it's true.

Just don't make your decisions based on marriages you really don't know the whole story  You will have a very different story one day, which will not end like the statistics you mentioned because you come here and LEARN from our mistakes!! :smthumbup:

I always remember times when I was madly in love!! Even if I did divorce then I was always happy that I have had an opportunity to experience such strong feelings!! :corkysm60: Some people never do!!

You are YOU and not anybody else! You will make your own life!


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Have to admit marriage is something I've written off for myself personally as well. Even told my mother a few weeks ago she probably shouldn't expect it so don't be surprised if it doesn't happen. It's just the older I've gotten (28 now), the more marriage problems I've seen as well as the results of marriages gone bad, and coming on TAM for the past few months I'm really not seeing the point at all anymore. Even when it comes to the successful marriages.

Which I find ironic because when I was in my early 20s I was looking forward to getting married. But I haven't really seen anything that marriage can give you that being single and in a committed relationship can't. You have to be married to have kids or a family? Be married to love/cherish someone? Be married to live together?? Be married to have a wedding ceremony if you want one that badly? etc? More often the sense I get from people is you're supposed to get married because "That's what you're supposed to do". For me that's just not enough of a reason.

Unless it's for some religious, tax, or citizenship reasons or outside of some sense of personal/societal fulfillment it really does not seem worth the risk or even a necessity. Especially for an institution that fails half the time and that many people seem to be stuck in even though they'd love to bail out of but can't or won't due to "the sake of the kids", co-dependance issues, afraid of losing their income/retirement/house/assets/custody of their kids/etc and not to mention the emotional and mental turmoil. I just really don't get how marriage is worth the risk of all that. I'm sure it seems worth the risk if your marriage is doing okay or recovered from a significant marriage problem and is doing better than it previously was. But for people who that isn't the case and didn't get that happy ending I rarely, if ever, hear "Well everything I went through up to the divorce/seperation was totally worth the risk."

That being said I don't think it's a bad prospect for EVERYONE. You have people here like Wazza, MattMatt, SimplyArmorous, etc who IMO seem quite content with their spouses and their marriage. As well as couples I've known in person (although who really knows what's going on behind closed doors). I just think there are too many people out there getting married and making bad decisions when it comes to marrying and their marriage when they really shouldn't have been married to begin with just like I think there are too many people out there having children who had no business having kids to begin with.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

omoplata said:


> Think men are the unfaithful sex? A study shows WOMEN are the biggest cheats - they're just better at lying about it


This is nonsense.

If you refer to an article, I suggest you read it.

It was a tabloid type headline, intended to be shocking but it had little to do with the actual article. The article itself said the OPPOSITE of what your post seems to claim! The article suggested that women were "catching up" to men. The article referenced didn't even say that women cheat more - it used the following statistics from a U.K. psychologist: he said 20% of men cheat and slightly over 15% of women but the psychologist only says he got that info from "recent studies" so that's as vague as you can get.

The generally recognized preeminent expert in infidelity, Shirley Glass, PhD, reviewed 25 studies and concluded that 44 percent of husbands and 25 percent of wives "have had extramarital intercourse."


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Jasel said:


> Have to admit marriage is something I've written off for myself personally as well. Even told my mother a few weeks ago she probably shouldn't expect it so don't be surprised if it doesn't happen. It's just the older I've gotten (28 now), the more marriage problems I've seen as well as the results of marriages gone bad, and coming on TAM for the past few months I'm really not seeing the point at all anymore. Even when it comes to the successful marriages.
> 
> Which I find ironic because when I was in my early 20s I was looking forward to getting married. But I haven't really seen anything that marriage can give you that being single and in a committed relationship can't. You have to be married to have kids or a family? Be married to love/cherish someone? Be married to live together?? Be married to have a wedding ceremony if you want one that badly? etc? More often the sense I get from people is you're supposed to get married because "That's what you're supposed to do". For me that's just not enough of a reason.
> 
> ...


If you educate yourself before getting married and apply some common sense, your chances for having a rewarding and successful marriage greatly improves. As I posted in this thread earlier, a lot of marital problems can be avoided if you find a like minded individual who holds the same values as you do combined with recognizing that a good marriage takes effort to not only maintain but to strengthen it.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If you educate yourself before getting married and apply some common sense, your chances for having a rewarding and successful marriage greatly improves. As I posted in this thread earlier, a lot of marital problems can be avoided if you find a like minded individual who holds the same values as you do combined with recognizing that a good marriage takes effort to not only maintain but to strengthen it.


Now that I actually completely agree with. It does seem like a lot of people are "reactive" instead of "proactive" when it comes to marriage and marital issues.


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## Spiderman (Oct 29, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If you educate yourself before getting married and apply some common sense, your chances for having a rewarding and successful marriage greatly improves. As I posted in this thread earlier, a lot of marital problems can be avoided if you find a like minded individual who holds the same values as you do combined with recognizing that a good marriage takes effort to not only maintain but to strengthen it.


Yep, absolutely. I only wish I would be able to do that before getting stuck in troubles :rofl:


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I think that you are right. The American Dream, no longer exists. You would be wise to learn from our mistakes. You can live with a girl, just don't get married.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

DavidWYoung said:


> I think that you are right. The American Dream, no longer exists. You would be wise to learn from our mistakes.


Oh it exists, but it became a nightmare


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Gseries said:


> Our society needs marriages. And I disagree that he shouldn't commit resources to a woman. The theory is this energy produces a synergy...the married couple complements their strengths and covers each others weaknesses...making each a better person, thus making society better.


I'm familiar with the theory. But I also recognize the reality. The reality is that, once a couple is married, external incentives exist to divorce. And divorce is now effortless.

Also, I agree that society benefits from marriage. Just as an army benefits from cannon fodder. But I wouldn't want to be the first guy off the boat at Normandy. And I wouldn't advise my son to put his health and well-being at risk to benefit society.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

tulsy said:


> Getting or staying married for the kids is not helping them in any way.


Statistically, you're wrong. Children who grow up in a household with two married parents are better off than other children.

That doesn't mean that the children of one particular marriage are better off after divorce. But the statistics are unambiguous for society as a whole.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

*Caveat emptor:* Picking a marriage partner is akin to buying a used car: You didn't order it from the factory and get to select all the options. While it may have some features you really like (maybe even a couple you cannot live without), it also has a few options you think are unnecessary. It also comes with a few dents and scratches. This damage may be obvious, or it may have been repaired (and possibly not be on the CarFax, lol). Either way - the dents and scratches will always be in the car's history, and may cause you some problems down the road. So - buyer beware. Just remember (even after doing extensive research on a particular year, make and model), if you don't follow a preventative maintenance plan, this car is going to give you problems. 

With that said, twenty four years ago, I had misgivings from the start about marrying my current (and stbx) wife, but went ahead with it anyway...hey - I was in love.

We each brought 3 kids from our first marriages into the mix: some refer to this as a "blended family" - to me it more resembled a planetary collision. It was tough, but we managed to raise the kids into responsible, hard working adults and we both are very proud of that. 

Although we had regular heated arguments, we started and grew a very successful business together over 21 years. Our personalities totally clicked in the business: she being the detail oriented introvert and me being totally an extroverted, carefree people person.

I guess we should've just been business partners. 
:smthumbup:


Seriously, if I weigh all aspects of the marriage - good and bad - I'd do it again (and I sincerely believe she would too). Overall, we had a good run, with many more good times than bad times. 

We still haven't divided our assets, I think we will come to an amicable agreement. But even if we don't (she can be a spiteful old b!tch) - I'd still do it again. What we accomplished together has literally been priceless. 




.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Spiderman said:


> ALots of marriages look like perfect match from outside so that divorcing will come like a shock for everybody but there are always issues, it's not that somebody just gets bored, i don't believe it.


Believe it. Elizabeth Gilbert wrote a best-seller book that inspired a movie that millions of women read and/or saw called Eat, Pray, Love. It was based on her autobiographical journey of growing bored with her nice-guy husband, frivolously divorcing him, and then having the time of her life.

Divorce rates have skyrocketed in recent years far outpacing any increases in adultery and/or abuse allegations. That means many of today's divorces are based on things like boredom, or falling out of love, that would not have been grounds to divorce a few decades ago.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Numbersixxx said:


> Well, some types of foods have a much higher probability of causing food poisoning than others, and a smart person will avoid eating those foods, or at least educate himself about the potential risks.
> 
> Right now people should educate themselves about the risks of getting married, meaning the possibility of losing more than half of your hard earned wealth and being enslaved through alimony. Now, consider that marriages have more than 50% failure rate and the possibility of this becomes quite conspicuous. So getting married becomes analogous to consuming food with a high risk of poisoning.


Who hasn't eaten the food they left in the fridge too long...

Seriously though. I guess what you should be looking for is better quality food, and not jumping on the moldy cheese.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

hopefulgirl said:


> This is nonsense.
> 
> If you refer to an article, I suggest you read it.
> 
> ...


Whoever wrote the article failed math. It says 15% of women cheat but 8 to 15% of men are raising children are raising kids that are not their biological child but think they are.


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

omoplata,
If I had my life to do over I would not marry ever. That is because I have had the experience of marriage. I have friends who never married and they are no happier. I have a feeling some sweet, pretty girl will whisper in your ear someday, "I love you". You will drop your guard and find yourself married.

Take what you have learned here and plan to use the knowledge for when you probably do get married.


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## shazam (Nov 7, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Statistically, you're wrong. Children who grow up in a household with two married parents are better off than other children.
> 
> That doesn't mean that the children of one particular marriage are better off after divorce. But the statistics are unambiguous for society as a whole.


And it's bad to marry promiscuous people and it's a statistical nightmare to get married so...


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## shazam (Nov 7, 2011)

cj9947 said:


> omoplata,
> If I had my life to do over I would not marry ever. That is because I have had the experience of marriage. I have friends who never married and they are no happier. I have a feeling some sweet, pretty girl will whisper in your ear someday, "I love you". You will drop your guard and find yourself married.
> 
> Take what you have learned here and plan to use the knowledge for when you probably do get married.


just be a serial monogamist, you play couple for a few years, fall in love, and then move on to the next person when you're bored, it's basically what people do anyways they just complicate everything with marriage, kids, etc...


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Ovid said:


> People get food poisoning every day. It doesn't mean you should stop eating.
> 
> Marriage has its rewards too. Those rewards are what makes it worth the risk.


Eating is necessary for sustaining life...what a ridiculous comparison.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> Believe it. Elizabeth Gilbert wrote a best-seller book that inspired a movie that millions of women read and/or saw called Eat, Pray, Love. It was based on her autobiographical journey of growing bored with her nice-guy husband, frivolously divorcing him, and then having the time of her life.
> 
> Divorce rates have skyrocketed in recent years far outpacing any increases in adultery and/or abuse allegations. That means many of today's divorces are based on things like boredom, or falling out of love, that would not have been grounds to divorce a few decades ago.


One of Athol's sentences that I love so much: "if you're boring, she'll consider whoring."


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Believe it. Elizabeth Gilbert wrote a best-seller book that inspired a movie that millions of women read and/or saw called Eat, Pray, Love. It was based on her autobiographical journey of growing bored with her nice-guy husband, frivolously divorcing him, and then having the time of her life.


Dalrock has a write up on how this woman turned out IRL. BTW, she actually started in an affair before her frivolous divorce. The XH didn't know about it until much later.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

omoplata said:


> Been looking for ways to help a buddy out who just found out his wife of two years has been cheating on him. Out of all the topics on this site the most popular (other then general discussion) is overwhelmingly:
> 
> Coping w/ Infidelity 9,417 threads 313,877 posts
> Going through a Divorce or Seperation 6,557 threads 129,899 posts
> ...


The plunge really doesn't matter as it really is just a legal document(other than the religious aspect of it). You would really need to avoid falling in love with any woman to avoid being cheated on. If you think about it, what is the true difference if you are cheated on with your girlfriend that you are madly in love with, or your wife that you are madly in love with. No difference in my opinion and the hurt will be just as traumatic. As others have said, there are plenty of good women out there that would unconditionally love and be faithful. You just have to dodge the bullets with the others.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Gseries said:


> So what is it that really bugs you....the governments regulation of marriage or the personal risk? If the government's policies are so useless, I am wondering why there is such a battle to expand the rights of marriage to LGBT right now? The tax breaks you mentioned are a motivation....married people are statistically less apt to rob my house or shoot my dog. There's a reason insurance is cheaper for married people. You are less apt to do stupid things. Society benefits, and so do you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Insurance rates are cheaper because married men can't afford their own funeral or to take off work long enough to die so they just keep living.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Statistically, you're wrong. Children who grow up in a household with two married parents are *better off* than other children...


I don't think you will find the words "better off" in your statistics. 

It would be ideal, if you happen to have a great story-book marriage where the parents are not fighting around the kids and there are no money issues, and the kids are not deprived of anything, etc....but not many of those exist anymore.

Adults who grew up from divorced parents statistically have less tolerance for miserable situations, and will not stick it out. This is looked at by some as "if your parents got divorced, you have a greater chance of getting divorced', when it should be looked at like your kids learned from your mistakes and won't put up with BS.

"Staying together for the kids” shows children a poor example of marriage. It only gives them a false sense of “normal”, and kids today see right through that crap. If it's not working out, your being strong and leaving shows them they should have the guts to pursue happiness in life.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Ovid said:


> People get food poisoning every day. It doesn't mean you should stop eating.
> 
> Marriage has its rewards too. Those rewards are what makes it worth the risk.


It's not a choice of starvation or eating. It's a choice between eating at one ultra expensive place where 50% of people get food poisoning but diners can't leave without suing the cook or eating where you wish and retaining the option to leave and go elsewhere if the cook stops taking proper care with the food.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

There are a lot of "statistics" being thrown around here but not many actually being cited.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There are real childhood benefits to having both parents in the home but those benefits exist whether the parents are legally married or not.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Wait, if you fall in love, and the woman wants to marry, then what? Is it over? Won't your logic leave you only two choices? Loneliness or hypocrisy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Gseries said:


> Wait, if you fall in love, and the woman wants to marry, then what? Is it over? Won't your logic leave you only two choices? Loneliness or hypocrisy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Marriage, when it's initiated by the woman and if you haven't thought it through, is the ultmate sh!t test. Say "No!" and move on. Maybe later you'll consider letting her in your soft harem of women when she starts scratching your doorway.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

roostr said:


> If you think about it, what is the true difference if you are cheated on with your girlfriend that you are madly in love with, or your wife that you are madly in love with. No difference in my opinion and the hurt will be just as traumatic.


The only thing worse than a woman you love cheating on you, hurting you, and breaking up with you, would be for her to cheat on you, hurt you, break up with you, and take your house, your car, and half your retirement savings. The legalities matter.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

tulsy said:


> I don't think you will find the words "better off" in your statistics.


That's true. How about this instead? Children of divorce are more likely to do poorly in school. They are more like to drop out of school, use drugs, become pregnant as teenagers, join gangs, get arrested, go to jail, and be generally unhappy. Rather than run through the long list of these things, and others, I simply use the general term, "better off."



> It would be ideal, if you happen to have a great story-book marriage where the parents are not fighting around the kids and there are no money issues, and the kids are not deprived of anything, etc....but not many of those exist anymore.


If your assumption is that everything was great in your grandparents' day and relationship stress is a modern problem, than I disagree with your premise. Fighting over money, sex, and kids is as old as the hills. Your grandparents did it. Your great-great-grandparents did it. If anything, stress is probably lower today. Today, we're worried about whether we'll be able to send our kids to private school instead of whether we'll be able to put food on the table.



> Adults who grew up from divorced parents statistically have less tolerance for miserable situations, and will not stick it out. This is looked at by some as "if your parents got divorced, you have a greater chance of getting divorced', when it should be looked at like your kids learned from your mistakes and won't put up with BS.


Given the harm that can come to children who go through divorce, your feature is my bug.



> "Staying together for the kids” shows children a poor example of marriage. It only gives them a false sense of “normal”, and kids today see right through that crap. If it's not working out, your being strong and leaving shows them they should have the guts to pursue happiness in life.


I agree that some marriages can be awful enough to justify ending. However, there are also statistics that show that couples who consider divorce, yet remain married, are happier in later years than couples who divorced.

Lots of information and links here:
Divorce Statistics Collection


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

tacoma said:


> There are a lot of "statistics" being thrown around here but not many actually being cited.


Well statistically 88% of statistics are accurate


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> It's not a choice of starvation or eating. It's a choice between eating at one ultra expensive place where 50% of people get food poisoning but diners can't leave without suing the cook or eating where you wish and retaining the option to leave and go elsewhere if the cook stops taking proper care with the food.


Oh sure. Introduce logic and reason into an emotional argument.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> There are real childhood benefits to having both parents in the home but those benefits exist whether the parents are legally married or not.


Because that will be a fun conversation..."mom/dad why aren't you married?"
"Because son/daughter, commitment is bad. Risk taking is bad. I was too afraid your mother would leave me, take you and all my money...."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> The only thing worse than a woman you love cheating on you, hurting you, and breaking up with you, would be for her to cheat on you, hurt you, break up with you, and take your house, your car, and half your retirement savings. The legalities matter.


I think if anything you can take from all of this is protect yourself. Look at how a divorce can ruin you financially and protect yourself, assuming you require that. 

Personally my brother has never had anything, so when his wife left she had nothing to take. He got sick and has been out of work for about 4 years. So he has even less then nothing now. 

But as for myself. Yes, I have the pension, 401k, annuity, a home with substantial equity. So I had a lot to loose. I got super lucky. My friends tell me I got lottery lucky. 

So for me if I get the chance to remarry again, I will make sure even before we get any idea of being married that my significant other will clearly and totally understand what is mine is mine and what is hers is hers. I will treat her as an equal and share with her everything but I ever kick her to the curb for some reason. She leaves with what she came with. Postnup all the way next time. A friend of mine did it and was divorced in 30 days.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Gseries said:


> Because that will be a fun conversation..."mom/dad why aren't you married?"
> "Because son/daughter, commitment is bad. Risk taking is bad. I was too afraid your mother would leave me, take you and all my money...."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How about: Because we recognize the primacy of God, not the capricious and arbitrary tyranny of an oppressive state opposed to the natural order of the universe?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Gseries said:


> Because that will be a fun conversation..."mom/dad why aren't you married?"
> "Because son/daughter, commitment is bad. Risk taking is bad. I was too afraid your mother would leave me, take you and all my money...."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually this is "kinda" the conversation I plan on having with my daughter here shortly..soon...in the not too distant future.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> That's true. How about this instead? *Children of divorce are more likely to do poorly in school. They are more like to drop out of school, use drugs, become pregnant as teenagers, join gangs, get arrested, go to jail, and be generally unhappy. Rather than run through the long list of these things, and others, I simply use the general term, "better off."
> 
> *


I think the term "generally speaking" applies here. All this may be true statistically, covering ALL demographics and situations. 

Statistics are a funny thing.

You cannot claim based on these statistics that if you divorce your children are more likely to do these things. For example, this statistic includes divorces where one parent completely abandons the family; a couple divorces because one parent goes to jail; a couple divorces because one parent has a substance abuse problem; the divorce plunges the children into poverty, etc. All of those situations are part of this statistic and none of them may be applicable to your situation.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Statistics are a funny thing.


True. But I think those who misinterpret statistics are funnier than the statistics. Most people know that smoking greatly increases one's risk for lung cancer. However, most smokers believe that those statistics don't apply to them. They are the ones exempt from the laws of nature.

Most families have similar views of themselves. They are the special ones. Their children are the special ones. Sure, most kids need two parents. But not MY kids.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> Believe it. Elizabeth Gilbert wrote a best-seller book that inspired a movie that millions of women read and/or saw called Eat, Pray, Love. It was based on her autobiographical journey of growing bored with her nice-guy husband, frivolously divorcing him, and then having the time of her life.
> 
> Divorce rates have skyrocketed in recent years far outpacing any increases in adultery and/or abuse allegations. That means many of today's divorces are based on things like boredom, or falling out of love, that would not have been grounds to divorce a few decades ago.


Not even kidding my friend's mom was obsessed with Eat, Pray, Love. What I'm wondering is what happens when the thrill goes away? She left a man that loved her and now her four sons won't even speak to her. All for what? A string of drunk hook-ups and a little sightseeing? Seems incredibly shortsighted and narcissistic.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

Gseries said:


> Wait, if you fall in love, and the woman wants to marry, then what? Is it over? Won't your logic leave you only two choices? Loneliness or hypocrisy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Already had that happen. Girl I met my last year of college I dated for almost 2 years. She basically said if I wasn't going to ask her to marry her in the next year she didn't want to be in the relationship. It was difficult, but I ended it. She ended up moving out of state for a job and got engaged. Surprisingly to an out-of-shape dorky guy (way out of his league looks wise) with a lot of money. She wanted to get married as soon as possible and I guess she doesn't mind being a trophy wife. Looking back it was one of the best decisions I've made. I dodged a serious bullet with that one and I didn't end up in "loneliness", lol.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I'd tell my daughter that I was looking at my commitment to her mother. Making a child with her bonds me far tighter than any piece of paper the State of Tennessee might draw up. Even if we divorced, we would still bound in parenthood. Whether the State or some preacher calls me "married" or a fortune cookie, is irrelevant. I either am committed to a woman or I'm not. Commitment comes from my heart and not from a court house.


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## EndlessFire (Dec 26, 2012)

You could walk through waist high fire without getting burned by finding cool spots that are not on fire but why would you try when you can stand outside the fire and still feel the warmth? 
Do you notice how all of these women and married men are telling you to get over your childish phase and take the risk of marriage? Now what you need to do is ask a group of men(because most women won't be able to understand losing their children, homes, and income in a divorce) who have been divorced and listen to their experiences. Then make an informed choice.
Most importantly, don't ever let anyone tell you that you should get married because there are plenty of people who live single their entire lives and are happier with less stress and more money than those telling you to take this huge risk.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

I do not see the logic in the OP beyond

"50% of marriages fail, therefore I am not getting married". 

If the point is being happy in life then that isn't the right statistic. You would compare satisfaction between people who never got married vs people who did, regardless of whether they got divorced. 

The fact someone gets divorced does not force us to conclude they regret having gotten married. It is a question worth investigating.

There is some interesting survey work that demonstrates the willingness of young men to marry has fallen in half recently, and that the trend is very much related to the War on Men. In short, that man-haters aren't worth marrying. Now that I can agree with. If she is going to be offensive and leave anyway then that's a no-brainer. But if you get twenty years of devotion followed by an affair and divorce, that may be better than staying unmarried for the next two decades.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

omoplata said:


> Already had that happen. Girl I met my last year of college I dated for almost 2 years. She basically said if I wasn't going to ask her to marry her in the next year she didn't want to be in the relationship. It was difficult, but I ended it. She ended up moving out of state for a job and got engaged. Surprisingly to an out-of-shape dorky guy (way out of his league looks wise) with a lot of money. She wanted to get married as soon as possible and I guess she doesn't mind being a trophy wife. Looking back it was one of the best decisions I've made. I dodged a serious bullet with that one and I didn't end up in "loneliness", lol.


so, isn't this case in point for OP? How many times, under his plan, will he be willing to fall in love only to force her out due to lack of commitment? Is that a dream future?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

*Re: Re: This site confirms I probably won't get married*



Gseries said:


> so, isn't this case in point for OP? How many times, under his plan, will he be willing to fall in love only to force her out due to lack of commitment? Is that a dream future?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He didnt force her out. She gave HIM an ultimatum. "Marry me or I want out." And why is there this mindset that the only way to show commitment is to get married? He cant have a happy future or relationships unless marriage is part of the equation? Seriously?


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Seems like a valid ultimatum from a man or a woman. Yes marriage seems to be a reasonable way to show commitment. Isn't that the point of the thread? Or is the theory we should dissolve all marriages? Is the OP point that love is grand until one person wants to marry them its over?
What about the dreaded alternative....that he actually gets married....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I think the point of the thread is that, to some people anyway, if marriage was such a commitment half of them wouldn't end in divorce with one or both spouses deciding to end it or walk away from said commitment. If it was such a commitment you wouldn't have rampant cases of infidelity and betrayals of the ones you were commited to. You can't marry your kids. Are you not as committed to them as much as you would be if you could?? 

I don't think anyone said anything about dissolving all marriages or people shouldn't get married. But I don't think it's a leap to question that marriage, especially for men, isn't necessarily the greatest idea or "worth the risk". Pretty much everything your average individual desires in life: a "committed" partner, children, a family, a home, a wedding ceremony, etc you can get without a legally binding contract. That these days barely seems worth the paper it's printed on as far as commitment is concerned and has a good chance of biting you in the ass 2, 5, 10, 20, etc years down the road anyway.

I'm not saying all marriage is bad or all marriages end up badly. But I think there's still a lot of ridiculous societal pressure and expecations to get married. Despite the fact the institution is by no means a shining example of success. Not by a long shot. And there are not enough people questioning it.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

*Re: Re: This site confirms I probably won't get married*



ThePheonix said:


> I'm going to get slammed and I know its not true in all cases, but if a woman likes a lot of variety, if you know what I mean, before she's married, that ain't likely to change. They are not good at relationships. (the same is true for men )


Not true. I had a lot of variety before I met my husband. Heck I'm bisexual, you can imagine the variety there. He cheated on me. I, to this day, have remained completely faithful.

If that doesn't completely negate your theory I don't know what does. I chose to marry him not the whole world. I take my vows very seriously.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> But if you get twenty years of devotion followed by an affair and divorce, that may be better than staying unmarried for the next two decades.


Yeah, because throwing away 20 years of emotional investment then getting raped in family court isn't devastating.

At least when the "getting raped in the family court" part of the problem is gone, you'll have less trouble moving on from a b!tch whom you would otherwise be forced carry on your back through alimony and child support.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

CantePe said:


> Not true. I had a lot of variety before I met my husband. Heck I'm bisexual, you can imagine the variety there. He cheated on me. I, to this day, have remained completely faithful.
> 
> If that doesn't completely negate your theory I don't know what does. I chose to marry him not the whole world. I take my vows very seriously.


Your case is an anecdote, not data. If a person smokes 5 packs of cigarettes a day for 50 years, and doesn't get cancer, does that completely negate the theory that smoking causes lung cancer? I don't think so.


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

I can't see it happening within my lifetime, but I'd like to see the government deal with civil unions/legal contracts, and get out of the 'marriage' business entirely. Same sex couples want to get civil unions and enjoy the benefits and downfalls? Go for it. I find it sad that the LGBT community want so badly to get into a messed up system, when they currently enjoy society's assumption that it's okay to not be married. 

The religion or philosophy of your choice can deal with the spiritual bonding aspect. 

I think its quite telling that when people want a divorce, they don't usually go before the people and deities present at their wedding ceremony and request that the marriage be dissolved (admitting many people get a secular marriage at the courthouse). At the end of a marriage, its mostly down to getting out of a legality. I don't personally know anyone that thought their divorce had a religious aspect, they just wanted out of a legally chained relationship. Both sides of my family are Catholic, or claim to be so, and quite a lot remarried after a D even though that's a 'no-no'. 

Personally I think the 'Defense of Marriage' folks need to shift focus on the ease with which we get married and divorced. It's sick. 

I've often thought it would be interesting to show up at an anti-gay 'marriage defense' rally with a bunch of 'BAN DIVORCE!' and 'SAY 'NO' to 'NO-FAULT' signs and see what kind of tune they sing.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> There is some interesting survey work that demonstrates the willingness of young men to marry has fallen in half recently, and that the trend is very much related to the War on Men. In short, that man-haters aren't worth marrying. Now that I can agree with. If she is going to be offensive and leave anyway then that's a no-brainer. But if you get twenty years of devotion followed by an affair and divorce, that may be better than staying unmarried for the next two decades.


Yeah, don't marry feminists man-haters. That is self-evident. But of the more than half failed marriages, women initiate 75% of divorces. Are you saying they are all man-haters? 

Plus I just don't see your rationale here. How is marriage + divorce better than no marriage at all? Sorry, but after reading all these stories form BS on this forum, I just don't want to end up like them. Not to mention the very real possibility of losing half my net worth in the divorce process. I would much rather spend twenty years investing into my own economic and personal independence (something that today's popular masses will never achieve). A simple cost-benefit analysis will tell you that marriage is not a smart investment.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

My 2 cents.

I would say that originally, marriage was an agreement that allowed a woman to sexually submit herself to a man knowing that he would take care of her and the byproduct of their sexual exploits, for life, empowering her to submit to him. (now void by modern birth control)

For the man it was a guarantee that the woman would not cuckhold or force him to raise another man's children. (now void by no fault laws)

This is the original basis for the contract.

Now that neither of those things are relevant, I have one question to ask:

Why would anybody want to involve a third party in an agreement between two people?

Ever?

I got married because I wanted children and wanted to do the best for my children that I could.

As was said so eloquently earlier in this thread, as a beta I was *COMPLETELY EVISCERATED* by my wife's MLC.

I will never expose myself to anyone to that extent again, and if I ever get married again it will be an agreement between me and my future spouse and _nobody else_.

It simply does not make sense to ever involve a third party in an agreement that is formulated and agreed upon by two people.


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

Just an anecdote here... my mom and dad were divorced when I was about 18, I think an infidelity on my dad's part was the last straw. I will admit I never really dug into it.

My dad had a live-in girlfriend after that for a number of years, and eventually she gave him the ultimatum... get married or I walk. He said no, and she walked. 

She contacted him about two years later... quickly married, obese, new baby... and utterly, profoundly miserable. 

I'm sure she would have been _happier_ staying a girlfriend- but that wouldn't have been acceptable to a person buying into a societal view where marriage is viewed as the ultimate expression of love and commitment. No winning situation for her.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Numbersixxx said:


> Yeah, don't marry feminists man-haters. That is self-evident. But of the more than half failed marriages, women initiate 75% of divorces. Are you saying they are all man-haters?
> 
> Plus I just don't see your rationale here. How is marriage + divorce better than no marriage at all? Sorry, but after reading all these stories form BS on this forum, I just don't want to end up like them. Not to m. ention the very real possibility of losing half my net worth in the divorce process. I would much rather spend twenty years investing into my own economic and personal independence (something that today's popular masses will never achieve). A simple cost-benefit analysis will tell you that marriage is not a smart investment.


now just a second children are a bad investment too but without them where would we be. this thread is all about statistics and investment. I still say individuals have the right to choose but societs are better off having married couples. everyone here is talking about protecting themselves but apparently there is no thought to anyone else. wouldn't you agree that marriage is derived out of necessity from times when it was the best of all options.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Gseries;1563002 wouldn't you agree that marriage is derived out of necessity from times when it was the best of all options.
[size=1 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


Options for what?
Patriarchy?

Yeah it was the best of all options for that.

Even if it was a needed "when it was the best of all options."
How does that make it needed now?


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Gseries said:


> I still say individuals have the right to choose but societs are better off having married couples.


Then shouldn't society be less destructive to marriage and more encouraging towards it?

Why is it anybody else's deal to take part in a system that has been screwed up just because society will benefit from it? Guess what? Society doesn't care.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

previously stated and no references are required. overall, it maybe n
ot be for everyone but for the majority married couples are happier in live longer. they are more apt to pay taxes have stable jobs raise families, have car insurance, etc. notice I said it was the best of all options I didn't say was the only option and I didn't say was great. in Western societies to me it appears the marriage has been the best choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Not sure if it's the same everywhere, but in this state, if you cohabitate w someone for a certain period of time, you can be required to go through the divorce process if you split.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Before you get married ask 10 friends who are married. If 9 out of 10 say don't do it....you have your answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

richie33 said:


> Before you get married ask 10 friends who are married. If 9 out of 10 say don't do it....you have your answer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What in your opinion are the odds he'd get 9 out of 10 saying "don't do it"?

I think they're pretty good.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Pretty....pretty....pretty good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm telling my 2 boys not to get married.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

There's something many women don't know about.

How many guys here had at least one male friend/family member pull them aside and hit them with "The Warning" after they announced but before they got married?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> I'm telling my 2 boys not to get married.


Well, LM, that's where we differ. I will be telling my kids (2 boys and 1 girl) to get married. But then, that's probably because of my religious beliefs.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

tacoma said:


> There's something many women don't know about.
> 
> How many guys here had at least one male friend/family member pull them aside and hit them with "The Warning" after they announced but before they got married?


I'm actually well aware of this "Warning"... A male friend of the family actually said that to ME on his own wedding day. As for my husband? Nope. Didn't happen to him.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I remember being a young kid and a older family friend said to a bunch of us younger boys" think of the most beautiful woman in the world.....some man, somewhere is tired of her and her complaints". It took me many years to get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

omoplata said:


> Already had that happen. Girl I met my last year of college I dated for almost 2 years. She basically said if I wasn't going to ask her to marry her in the next year she didn't want to be in the relationship. It was difficult, but I ended it. She ended up moving out of state for a job and got engaged. Surprisingly to an out-of-shape dorky guy (way out of his league looks wise) with a lot of money. She wanted to get married as soon as possible and I guess she doesn't mind being a trophy wife. Looking back it was one of the best decisions I've made. I dodged a serious bullet with that one and I didn't end up in "loneliness", lol.


It sounds like you were anti-marriage BEFORE you started looking at this site. Two years is a long time to be involved with someone! I think it only fair that you be honest with the women that you date from now on - let them know early on that you aren't interested in getting married. Most women are.

As long as we are talking here about infidelity and the damage that lying and cheating can do, we must also talk about the damage that lying by omission can do - and it is certainly lying by omission to lead someone on. You are NOT marriage material. This "probably" won't get married is baloney - you have been trying to make a case against marriage, so you would be dishonest if you dated someone and DIDN'T let her know very early in the process that you are not looking to get married. 

Please don't even introduce doubt - "I'm 99% sure I won't get married" - because that would just be setting the bait. You aren't seeking marriage, you think it's a lousy deal, you've made it pretty clear. Please be this clear with the women that you date.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> I'm actually well aware of this "Warning"... A male friend of the family actually said that to ME on his own wedding day. As for my husband? Nope. Didn't happen to him.


Good thing he's got you now.

There was apparently nobody looking out for him before.

:rofl:


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Good thing he's got you now.
> 
> There was apparently nobody looking out for him before.
> 
> :rofl:



HEY! I'm not sure if I should feel complimented...or insulted by that one! 

BTW, it was no shock for the family friend to tell me that... he was quite the playboy/partier. 

However, even with the poor example my husband got from his own parents, HE KNEW their dysfunction wasn't normal... and was determined that ours would NOT be like theirs... Despite the problems we have had, it is NOTHING like the example he had.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

omoplata said:


> Already had that happen. Girl I met my last year of college I dated for almost 2 years. She basically said if I wasn't going to ask her to marry her in the next year she didn't want to be in the relationship. It was difficult, but I ended it.


2 Years? When my girlfriend of 4 months gave me an ultimatum like that, we were married 5 months later. Generally, I don't recommend caving to women's ultimatums, but I was 27 had known many beautiful women and this one was by way far the smartest one I had ever met who was also pretty hot (apparently moreso to me than my friends). Two of our three kids did college on full scholarships and the other has been president of a multi-million $ corp since he was 23 years old. And my wife is still hotter than 95% of the women her age, including a lot of the girls who were hotter way back then. (thank you God).

What this all means is: You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run. KWIM?


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

My marriage was a 24/7 nightmare **** show where I dreaded coming home from work on Friday evenings since I never knew what kind of verbal abuse was going to get hurled my way over the weekend. Eventually, I took on a second job under the guise of "paying down debt." I really just was wanted some peace and quiet.

I fail to understand those who say, "Yeah, marriage is a lot of work and your spouse might cheat, but in the end, it's worth it!"

Why?

My eyes don't lie, and most the married men I see are souless drones who are doing all they can just to get through the day -- they just look dead inside. I see a lot of them at church. I notice them right before their "reformed party girl" wives start chatting me up after service.

Why in the hell would any sane man pour his life into making someone like this happy? Yeah, they're not all like this, but until the ring goes on, you just don't know... and then it's too late.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> ... As for my husband? Nope. Didn't happen to him.


That you're aware of...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Gseries said:


> now just a second children are a bad investment too but without them where would we be. this thread is all about statistics and investment. I still say individuals have the right to choose but societs are better off having married couples. everyone here is talking about protecting themselves but apparently there is no thought to anyone else. wouldn't you agree that marriage is derived out of necessity from times when it was the best of all options.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Marriage was in the first place invented to prevent the cutthroat competition among people to secure their genetic legacy. It was a necessity to give rise to civilized society, it was never about love. The whole notion of romantic love was later invented by the human nature and tendency to give some deeper significant meaning to things and to differentiate us from other animals. We then rised a whole set of social customs and taboos to help preserve this institution. What changed is that due to the technological advancements, we are no longer able to enforce those same customs and taboos without sliding into an authoritarian and oppressive political system.

So we are approaching an organic dissolution of the institution of marriage, as indicated by the divorce statistics. And if you are hoping for an improvement, just wait for the next generation to take over. A generation raised by reality TV-shows, internet porn and irresponsible parents. The chances for a U-turn are basically zero, we already crossed the Rubicon point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> HEY! I'm not sure if I should feel complimented...or insulted by that one!


I wouldn't insult you Maricha, I'm just teasing you.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

As a BS, I feel like avoiding another marriage (or equivalent relationship) if our R efforts fall through. Looking back I see good and bad times; one thing I can say though I've done the best I could for the family. 

It's been 12 years, I've done my time and would rather not step on the same rake.


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## ChknNoodleSoup (Oct 20, 2012)

I hope that I find love again and that this time it will be true. But truth is, chances are I'd never trust another relationship or man again.


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## Gain Knowledge (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm looking for a post on here that someone cut and paisted about the effects infidility has on a person. It's been a few weeks ago. It was written very professionally .


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Numbersixxx said:


> Yeah, don't marry feminists man-haters. That is self-evident. But of the more than half failed marriages, women initiate 75% of divorces. Are you saying they are all man-haters?


Since I didn't say anything so silly then obviously I am not saying it. 



> Plus I just don't see your rationale here. How is marriage + divorce better than no marriage at all?


That is something that can be determined with unbiased surveys, not by reading a site dominated by people with problems. 




> Sorry, but after reading all these stories form BS on this forum, I just don't want to end up like them. Not to mention the very real possibility of losing half my net worth in the divorce process. I would much rather spend twenty years investing into my own economic and personal independence (something that today's popular masses will never achieve). A simple cost-benefit analysis will tell you that marriage is not a smart investment.


This ignores the benefits of marriage, and there is a telling selfishness in here: "My net worth".

All custom and law correctly labels it as "our net worth", and if you are in a common law state it won't matter if you are formally married. My wife does not work outside the home. I am thrilled that she provides so much value to our household, which I would have to pay market rates for otherwise and which frees my time to work outside the home. 

She is entitled to half of what I make - which I give gladly, eagerly, and with great joy. When I got divorced before I did not have the slightest resentment about sharing half of OUR net worth. It was not MY net worth.


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## victarion (Sep 7, 2012)

I get where your coming from with your original post, i have found consistently reading here has somewhat darkened my outlook on marriage, lol


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

old timer said:


> That you're aware of...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sigh....you win... his mom pulled him aside and told him not to marry...oh wait, she told ME she always wanted him to marry a "nice Jewish girl" 

Whatever. Believe what you must to make yourself feel better. :sleeping:

Oh! Oh! You're right! There WAS one person who said it...to both of us... our pastor did because HE felt we weren't ready to get married.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

I'm so naive. What's the "warning"? The only thing I remember is W's great aunt giving her wedding night advice....awkward
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Gseries said:


> I'm so naive. What's the "warning"? The only thing I remember is W's great aunt giving her wedding night advice....awkward
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is, essentially, the "Never get married, boy. They'll take all your money and leave you with nothin'!"...


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

CantePe said:


> Not true. I had a lot of variety before I met my husband. Heck I'm bisexual, you can imagine the variety there. He cheated on me. I, to this day, have remained completely faithful.
> 
> If that doesn't completely negate your theory I don't know what does. I chose to marry him not the whole world. I take my vows very seriously.


I've found that people generally are who they are. Doesn't mean people can't change or that there can't be an exception to the rule. I went to a big state college in which a lot of people from my high school also attended. This was also around the time facebook was just getting started so it's been pretty easy to keep up with people since then. At 26, people pretty much still act the way they did when they were in high school/college. The stoned slackers failed out, moved back home, and work crappy jobs. The ambitious ones graduated near the top of their class and are beginning their careers. The party-slag/****ty girls are either still single and ****ting it up, have been divorced already, or have multiple kids from multiple men. The "reformed ****s" are some of the most dangerous women out there. I feel bad seeing girls like this that I've known for a while getting married to some Mr.Nice Guy who has no idea what he's getting into.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

Apparently you don't want to get divorced in Canada according to Dave Foley on the Joe Rogan Podcast. His wife was going through 50k a month then he was forced to pay 17k+ per month (3 times his monthly salary) or he would have to got to jail for 10 days anytime he was late.

Part 1: Talking about his and his friends' divorces.

Part 2: Talking about paying alimony/child support.


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## LoveBeingFemale (Nov 5, 2012)

omoplata;1547551Why are there so many shameless ****s out there now? Is this a phenomenon in the Western world? I've dated around plenty and have had a few long-term relationships. I just don't think I'll ever take the plunge.[/QUOTE said:


> I should say I'm old enough to be your mother. You need to be extremely selective in your choosing of a future spouse. I talk to my teen sons about this every chance I get. One simply can't deny that feminism is the major root of this problem. There used to be a time when girls would say "no." Girls aren't saying "no" anymore. My best "mom" advice--do yourself a big favor, and stay away from any woman who wants a career as the primary focus. This may be difficult, but they are out there. Also, take a good look, if at all possible, at the young lady's mother. The way the mother acts, speaks, dresses, etc. This will give you a good indication. It's that old saying, "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree."


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

*Interesting Assessment Matt82...*



matt82 said:


> I fail to understand those who say, "Yeah, marriage is a lot of work and your spouse might cheat, but in the end, it's worth it!"
> 
> Why?
> 
> My eyes don't lie, and *most the married men I see are soulless drones who are doing all they can just to get through the day *-- they just look dead inside.


It sounded familiar to me. Wait... *that was me* for years on end. My marriage during this time was just plain hell. I tried everything, getaway vacations, presents, flowers, cards, fixing dinner, working overtime to pay off debt, new cars for her, I even put in a garden to have fresh veggies to make her happy.

She just got more distant and madder. WONDER WHY?

Oh! Could it be *Serially Cheating* for years. As Charlie Brown said to Lucy... *"That's It!"*.

Here is the funny thing... After DD, I read her emails to her new love POSOM3. She berates me as this person...

_"His attitude has always been something like OK, let's get up every day and do what we're supposed to do, and just see if we can make it through this thing that is out to get you called LIFE."_

Sound familiar, being cheated on does have a way of turning you into a *soulless drone.*


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LoveBeingFemale said:


> I should say I'm old enough to be your mother. You need to be extremely selective in your choosing of a future spouse. I talk to my teen sons about this every chance I get. One simply can't deny that feminism is the major root of this problem. There used to be a time when girls would say "no." Girls aren't saying "no" anymore. My best "mom" advice--do yourself a big favor, and stay away from any woman who wants a career as the primary focus. This may be difficult, but they are out there. Also, take a good look, if at all possible, at the young lady's mother. The way the mother acts, speaks, dresses, etc. This will give you a good indication. It's that old saying, "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree."


When I was younger, my focus was career first. I didn't have any interest in having a family until after I had been in college a few years. After meeting my husband, having a family BECAME my primary focus. It's just as easy for someoen who has her focus on family first to change her mind to career. As for looking to mom... I have seen too many examples where mom and daughter were completely different. In fact, I am much more like my dad than my mom. My cousin is NOTHING like her mom (and that's GOOD!) I think a better indication is to watch her with her family...as much of her family as possible. Watch her interactions with friends. And watch her family with each other. That will show a bigger picture of what MAY occur in your relationship.


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## GJfromCAN (Mar 1, 2013)

old timer said:


> Not sure if it's the same everywhere, but in this state, if you cohabitate w someone for a certain period of time, you can be required to go through the divorce process if you split.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, this past weekend I found out that, according to recent changes in provincial law, my GF and I are officially married.

I'll let you all know where we are registered. My vote is for the LCBO (the liquor store)


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## matt82 (Jun 28, 2012)

omoplata said:


> The "reformed ****s" are some of the most dangerous women out there. I feel bad seeing girls like this that I've known for a while getting married to some Mr.Nice Guy who has no idea what he's getting into.


Red-hot gospel there, brother!

I was the Nice Guy (TM) who married a "reformed" ****. It isn't that they reform so much as they keep their natural urges under wraps until the ring goes on. Then it's back to the **** carousel.

Sometimes it takes the husband years to find out... he's left confused and bewildered about happened to the woman he fell in love with.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/pre_nope_rocked_by_family_affair_FPuVHNypGki2W8hYelTJfL

Woman who is divorcing her millionaire husband is posed to get half even though they had a pre-nup and she cheated on her spouse with her cousin's husband. How is this fair?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Its not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

omoplata said:


> http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/pre_nope_rocked_by_family_affair_FPuVHNypGki2W8hYelTJfL
> 
> Woman who is divorcing her millionaire husband is posed to get half even though they had a pre-nup and she cheated on her spouse with her cousin's husband. How is this fair?


I really feel for these guys, but right now there is just too much information outside to ignore it. Meaning that you must choose ignorance on purpose. So today, if you still decided to get married, you deserve whatever you got. Some people just need to learn it the hard way (or not at all).

Btw, another educational video:
Broken - Two men after divorce - YouTube
This is how the system works. It's not broken, it's not insane and it's not ridiculous. It's serious and it's meant to work that way.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

omoplata said:


> http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/pre_nope_rocked_by_family_affair_FPuVHNypGki2W8hYelTJfL
> 
> Woman who is divorcing her millionaire husband is posed to get half even though they had a pre-nup and she cheated on her spouse with her cousin's husband. How is this fair?


She better hire the best security available fast. With that much money at stake, she might just end up in a ditch.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm starting to have to resist the urge to facepalm everytime I hear a buddy of mine is engaged.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

Numbersixxx said:


> I really feel for these guys, but right now there is just too much information outside to ignore it. Meaning that you must choose ignorance on purpose. So today, if you still decided to get married, you deserve whatever you got. Some people just need to learn it the hard way (or not at all).
> 
> Btw, another educational video:
> Broken - Two men after divorce - YouTube
> This is how the system works. It's not broken, it's not insane and it's not ridiculous. It's serious and it's meant to work that way.



Tax Attorney can't afford the child support/alimony that was ordered and loses his license to practice, his children, and is jailed.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Happened to a co-worker of mine. Couldn't make a child support payment (this guy is not a deadbeat either) so they yanked his nursing license until he could. You can't work as a nurse without a nursing license -_-


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Women file for divorce most of the time because they are the ones who have had enough of the bad marriage. Most of the time the reasons are Physical abuse, mental abuse, cheating, or a combination of those or other problems like substance abuse. Walk away wife syndrome is not common at all (despite what you may think). 

Divorced women going out partying, sleeping around, and getting "rich" of divorced hubby's assets/money is very very uncommon. A good portion of divorced women become single mothers, and with that said single mothers are one of the poorest and disadvantage groups in the U.S.


You are also too young to say such things. You do sound smart in that you are aware of things, but only with time will you come to learn and accept things for how they are. Also id like to add that monogamy is not natural for human beings and I don't believe most people in general are cut out for marriage as few are willing to put in the work.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Marriage is great - that's why I've done it so many times...


.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> Women file for divorce most of the time because they are the ones who have had enough of the bad marriage. Most of the time the reasons are Physical abuse, mental abuse, cheating, or a combination of those or other problems like substance abuse. Walk away wife syndrome is not common at all (despite what you may think).


I call bullsh!t on that.

"Until recently, with nearly half of all marriages ending in divorce, the most commonly cited reason was infidelity.
But times have changed. Last week, a survey of 101 family lawyers conducted by the consultancy firm Grant Thornton revealed that adultery was no longer the principal reason for break-ups. Instead, the most popular explanation was couples saying they were simply “no longer in love” and had “grown apart”. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/8739533/Women-and-divorce-Goodbye-darling-youre-just-too-dull....html 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The average guy gets divorced, he pays through the nose and loses daily contact with his kids. The average woman divorces, she generally keeps the kids, a good share of marital property, plus she receives guaranteed child support. She also is free to find another guy and end up with a fun, fresh relationship and the financial support of two men instead of one. It's not hard to imagine why more women than men file for divorce. Most people prefer Christmas to suicide.


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## omoplata (Mar 21, 2013)

Goldmember357 said:


> Women file for divorce most of the time because they are the ones who have had enough of the bad marriage. Most of the time the reasons are Physical abuse, mental abuse, cheating, or a combination of those or other problems like substance abuse. Walk away wife syndrome is not common at all (despite what you may think).
> 
> Divorced women going out partying, sleeping around, and getting "rich" of divorced hubby's assets/money is very very uncommon. A good portion of divorced women become single mothers, and with that said single mothers are one of the poorest and disadvantage groups in the U.S.
> 
> ...


Is this a troll post?


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Goldmember357 said:


> Women file for divorce most of the time because they are the ones who have had enough of the bad marriage. Most of the time the reasons are Physical abuse, mental abuse, cheating, or a combination of those or other problems like substance abuse. Walk away wife syndrome is not common at all (despite what you may think).
> 
> Divorced women going out partying, sleeping around, and getting "rich" of divorced hubby's assets/money is very very uncommon. A good portion of divorced women become single mothers, and with that said single mothers are one of the poorest and disadvantage groups in the U.S.
> 
> ...


No, that's actually a crack-on post, but I'd also throw a bit of *Numbersixxx*'s input into it as well..


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Gseries said:


> Don't be silly. Marriage is wonderful, but it is your choice.
> *And stats are misleading.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*No disrespect, but a 50-plus% divorce rate is anything but misleading!*


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *No disrespect, but a 50-plus% divorce rate is anything but misleading!*


Stats are misleading because they don't take into account of the two individuals involved or their marriage. They never tell the whole story. 

Living your life and mitigating risks by looking at statistics is no way to live.

My wife and I have a relationship that has an 80% failure rate in the UK. Should we just give up now? Or do we do what it takes to be that 1 in 5 couples that make it?


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

keko said:


> There are plenty of good women out there. Just take your time, observe the red flags and filter out the faulty one's.


I respectfully disagree. There are actually very few good people out there. In my anecdotal sample, I would say 25% absolutely good (will not lie, beg, or steal), 25% evil (get ready to get scammed, stupid), and 50% in between. You really have to know what you are doing to trust another person completely. And still, you might get stabbed in the back.

I, in general, don't agree with the idea that to be happy you need to be with another person. Happiness has to come from within. If you are not happy with yourself, nothing and no one can make you happy. You then need to find the source of unhappiness and cure(?) it, before you jump into a relationship. If you are unhappy, you will be unhappy no matter how great your partner is. Being with someone spectacular is just a mascara, it will come off sooner or later.

Again, a marriage or great life partner cannot make you happy. Only you can make you happy. I don't buy into this 'made for each other' or 'happily ever after' crap anymore. But that's just me, a chump.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

OP I didn't read all the responses but this thread makes me sad and listen because you are wrong.

You are wrong because rather than noticing how all of thousands on here have been betrayed, notice the same thousands have a problem with it or we wouldn't even be on here. We wouldn't be heartbroken. We don't like cheating. So find someone like that. Most of us wouldn't do it ourselves, which is why the experience is that much more devastating, it's why you can feel the pain on here. 

There are people of honor out there. For me, I think it's so freaking totally stupid to cheat. I enjoy the simplest of things: cuddling on the couch after work, waking up next to the same person, having that person who knows whether I make it home or not and who can worry about me and take care of me. Affairs cannot exist in a simple environment such as the one I described. The are complicated, ugly, dramatic, messy and requiring an overwhelming amount of scamming, lies, keeping stories straight, and dual lives. Who needs that???? Just find someone who doesn't need that. 

In hindsight, however, I would do some preempting. 
I seriously believe the book Not Just Friends should be required reading for both parties before anyone gets a marriage license. It is so spot on. 

Also, take advantage of pre-maritial counseling. This is often even provided through churches, etc. Take advantage of it, you will learn a lot. I say this because a friend participated in Catholic premaritial counseling, and she described so many thought provoking situations that the priest brought up and that allowed her and her future husband to discuss them. It doesn't have to be a priest, but some counselor. 

Learn what you will and will not tolerate, and do not budge. I think women especially do that: try to act like some things don't bother us so they won't look like the "bitter old hag" or the "ball and chain". I think men have it easier on this, if they don't like Ralph in accounting flirting with their wife, they look like the strong guy when they say something, like a wolf marking on it's territory. But when a wife does the same thing over a woman around her husband she is automatically deemed jealous or frigid or insecure. "mistresses" (I hate that term) seem to imply a seductive, attractive, sexual temptress, and "wife" often implies somebody pretty-but-homey, plain jane, boring in the sack, mundane . Let me tell you, that is usually so NOT the case. 

Ok sorry I kind of went off on a tangent there....

Anyway, Do not budge on what you are comfortable with. Things like boundaries with opposite sex coworkers. Strip clubs (yes for both sides). boundaries with exes. Boundaries with online relationships. Porn. Whatever things are important to you. 

Pay attention to your potential spouse's friends and family. For instance, If all their friends are cheaters, red flag. If their best friend is having an affair, it doesn't mean they necessarily drop them but they definitely should be disturbed by it and not helping it in any way. 
Was there infidelity in their family, and how do they view it? My ex viewed his father's infidelity as a joke, like "the Smith men are all big flirts". This is not funny ,and should have told me how he really viewed infidelity. 


I'm just saying. Don't be suspicious, but be aware. And yeah, even with all the pre-empting I just described, sometimes spouses cheat. But seriously, I hate to think of a world where people are no longer willing to throw their heart down and take the risks for love.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Jasel said:


> Have to admit marriage is something I've written off for myself personally as well. Even told my mother a few weeks ago she probably shouldn't expect it so don't be surprised if it doesn't happen. It's just the older I've gotten (28 now), the more marriage problems I've seen as well as the results of marriages gone bad, and coming on TAM for the past few months I'm really not seeing the point at all anymore. Even when it comes to the successful marriages.
> 
> Which I find ironic because when I was in my early 20s I was looking forward to getting married. But I haven't really seen anything that marriage can give you that being single and in a committed relationship can't. You have to be married to have kids or a family? Be married to love/cherish someone? Be married to live together?? Be married to have a wedding ceremony if you want one that badly? etc? More often the sense I get from people is you're supposed to get married because "That's what you're supposed to do". For me that's just not enough of a reason.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to say you're a genius.

Oh wait...oops! So embarrased


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