# Dominance & Submission, Dom/sub, D/s



## Noman (Oct 17, 2014)

I am creating two threads that sort of go together, but I don't want to muddy the two subjects by combining them. Here is the Other Thread.

I've been reading a lot about Dominance & submission, trying to figure it all out in terms of a BDSM relationship.

If it's true that D/s is present in every interaction in our lives, then it is obviously present in our marriages, both in the bedroom and outside the bedroom.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say 90% of all marriages are D/s: One spouse is Dominant while the other is submissive. I'm sure Maquiscat can provide a more accurate figure.

So if you're in a D/s relationship by default, wouldn't it make sense to talk about it and at least provide some framework for how it fits in your relationship?

In the past Mrs. Noman has responded negatively to the word submissive, equating it with "subservient," which is not the case (at least as I understand it.)

There are various versions of _The Submissive's Bill of Rights_, but they all pretty much start with this:
_*You have the right to be treated with respect. Being submissive does not make you a doormat or less of a person than anyone else. The word “submissive” describes your nature and in no way diminishes you as a human being. You have the responsibility to respect yourself as well.*_

It seems to me that _not_ acknowledging the Dom/sub dynamic when it exists is downright counterproductive, if not dangerous to a relationship.

The D/s dynamic appears to run a HUGE gamut from being unacknowledged to full on BDSM Leather & Whips, with most of that dynamic falling far short of leather & whips I do believe.

For myself I am ready to not only acknowledge the D/s dynamic in our marriage *((9/07/21 EDIT: This is a JOKE, and a good one too, that due to the unfortunate ambiguity of non-personal communications has been misconstrued multiple times as the truth. I do not ask Mrs. Noman for permission for anything, not even when she's baking & I want a big spoonful of mind blowing sugar cookie dough, I just dive right in. I do get a clean spoon for the second spoonful. Sometimes. OK, are we all clear on this? Nuff said!: (once I get Mrs. Noman's permission,))* but I am ready to explore at least the outer branches of this large, mysterious tree.

I'm not particularly interested in leather & whips, but I _would_ like to see Mrs. Noman out in public wearing a petite & fancy collar.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Noman said:


> For myself I am ready to not only acknowledge the D/s dynamic in our marriage (*once I get Mrs. Noman's permission*,) but I am ready to explore at least the outer branches of this large, mysterious tree.


It reads like the shoe is on the other foot, with you needing permission.

Seriously, of course she bristles. Since she is evidently more dominant.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Personal said:


> It reads like the shoe is on the other foot, with you needing permission.
> 
> Seriously, of course she bristles. Since she is evidently more dominant.


actually, serious BDSM relationships involve a "contract".

here is a sample one:








Sample Dominant/submissive Contract







submissiveguide.com





the Dom has certain needs, and if the Sub does not understand those needs and will not submit, it will not go well.

and the converse is true too, the Sub might have boundaries, both soft and hard, that they are not willing to go beyond. Exceeding those hard boundaries will lose you a sub in a flash.

Also, there has to be some way for things to evolve. say the dom does some sort of kinky thing to the sub, and the sub hates it. that has to be factored in to the equation going forward. An simple example might be the dom requiring the sub to wear a black velvet collar while in public (such as at work) to signal they are "owned". Some would do that gladly, others would balk at it

so yeah, there is a lot of "permission" getting negotiated and agreed to in a serious BDSM relationship


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Personal said:


> It reads like the shoe is on the other foot, with you needing permission.
> 
> Seriously, of course she bristles. Since she is evidently more dominant.


This.

What you are trying to do, OP, is called 'Topping From The Bottom' in some D/S circles. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> actually, serious BDSM relationships involve a "contract".


I am aware of that, I've been around the block lots of times.

That said, having read the OPs other discussion threads, it's pretty clear his wife is more dominant than he is.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Oh and I just want to add, there's nothing wrong with a man being less dominant than his wife.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I think it's highly unlikely that 90% of marriages are this way.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I think it's highly unlikely that 90% of marriages are this way.


I agree. I think it is more like 100%. 

And for those who think their relationship is 50/50...they are the sub.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

^^^ Plus two thumbs up as well @farsidejunky!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Personal said:


> It reads like the shoe is on the other foot, with you needing permission.


The first hard fact of the D/s relationship is that the sub is always in charge.
The sub has an absolute veto. And, that is not topping from the bottom.
Me, I'm what is known as a Smart Ass. Which means I'm in danger of topping from the bottom every time. I want my Dom to push past my resistance.

Now as to how that is actually working. I had an older sister, and I married an oldest sister, knowing what I was in for. But in the end her romantic need is for a strong man. She needs a man who won't let her push him around, but she will constantly try to push him around. So I don't get what I want because She is using the veto (she refuses to play).

Diana is more right than you think. Yes there is a power balance in every relationship. But long lasting healthy relationships are partnerships. (even D/s relationships) instead of using the veto, (walk away) the couple works out the problem to the satisfaction of both partners. (see D/s contract above) 

That explains why my relationship is failing. Needs are not met. Veto is applied instead of partnership compromise. 

Is @Noman going to talk Mrs. Noman into wearing interesting jewelry? Only if he can make it fit into her understanding of either his need or her need.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i think we are arguing over nuances and points of view on a pretty involved and complicated topic.

a little blue oyster cult to think it over with!






And, of course, the Tubes!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> I agree. I think it is more like 100%.
> 
> And for those who think their relationship is 50/50...they are the sub.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I suspect it's about 5-10% where there is one very domineering. Plus not talking about sex.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I suspect it's about 5-10% where there is one very domineering. Plus not talking about sex.


Now we are getting somewhere, Diana. 

Domineering and dominance are two completely different things.

In fact, you show me someone who is domineering, and I will show you someone who is (in all likelihood) a submissive.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Mr. Nail said:


> The first hard fact of the D/s relationship is that the sub is always in charge.
> The sub has an absolute veto. And, that is not topping from the bottom.
> Me, I'm what is known as a Smart Ass. Which means I'm in danger of topping from the bottom every time. I want my Dom to push past my resistance.
> 
> ...


And there's the rub. Two people need to be respective of each other than the relationship. If there is strife and one refuses to participate then it is most likely to neither's satisfaction.


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## Noman (Oct 17, 2014)

Personal said:


> It reads like the shoe is on the other foot, with you needing permission.


That was a joke, that's why I added the parentheses.



Talker67 said:


> actually, serious BDSM relationships involve a "contract".
> ...
> so yeah, there is a lot of "permission" getting negotiated and agreed to in a serious BDSM relationship


@Talker67, it seems like there must be a few (quite a few?) steps before you get to an actual contract.

Like acknowledging the D/s dynamic, discussing its strength & impact in a relationship. Do you have any thoughts in this area?

Also, do you think just acknowledging the existence of a D/s relationship in a marriage would have a positive effect, or is it a toss-up?



Personal said:


> ...having read the OPs other discussion threads, it's pretty clear his wife is more dominant than he is.


@Personal, Examples?



Mr. Nail said:


> Is @Noman going to talk Mrs. Noman into wearing interesting jewelry? Only if he can make it fit into her understanding of either his need or her need.


Well, that's not really a priority at this point, just something I like to think about: Perhaps a baby blue choker with something nice attached, like a blue topaz.



Talker67 said:


> a little blue oyster cult to think it over with!


You, sir, have impeccable taste.



farsidejunky said:


> ...you show me someone who is domineering, and I will show you someone who is (in all likelihood) a submissive.


That is an interesting idea.

Would that apply to a domineering boss?

How about a wife venting on her husband?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

well yes, a D/S contract is not the first thing. 
you are already in a relationship, so you can not just go out and find a sub at this point. you dated, found out about each other, and your sexual preferences. So now it sounds like you have done some research and find you are interested in some types of BDSM behavior, and want her to come along. you want her to embrace your kinks, enjoy them, and maybe even discover kinks of her own.

Hopefully she is already a somewhat horny and kinky sort of girl! 
I would say to take some baby steps. Find out what sort of sexual things she has fantasized about, but has not told you about yet. Maybe she and your kinky fantasies overlap in some areas. 
If you two already can talk about some things, maybe just some research and a good talk can show where the two or you have common kinks. If you need help, maybe both of your fill out this online test and look for overlaps?






MojoUpgrade | Try new things







mojoupgrade.com





then, maybe some play toys to try things out with? She may not even have a clue what sort of kinks she will be really into a year or two from now. and the shock factor of introducing something she is not ready for too soon may turn her off to the entire process. 

so start small. maybe some light bondage sex toys? Velcro handcuffs, a blindfold, some soft nipple clamps, etc....might be a good first start? Buying such things is super easy nowadays online. 

There are often local munches you can attend to meet other couples with similar interests. bigger cities can have rope bondage demonstrations to attend, either to watch, or to even participate in as a rigger and rope bunny while getting instruction. there are erotic photography classes where you can photograph her in various sexual settings. what ever turns you on.

Have Fun!


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## Meatball (Sep 17, 2020)

Oh......you and I are cut form the same cloth! 

YOU.... are going to be more "dominant".....when SHE.......GIVES you permission??? LMAO. Welcome to the struggle my brother. We'll get there, but goddamned it's a long hard road!


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## Noman (Oct 17, 2014)

Meatball said:


> Oh......you and I are cut form the same cloth!
> 
> YOU.... are going to be more "dominant".....when SHE.......GIVES you permission??? LMAO. Welcome to the struggle my brother. We'll get there, but goddamned it's a long hard road!


OK, once again, that was a joke, I thought the parentheses would make that obvious, but once again the non-personal nature of electronic communication has created an ambiguity.

I will go edit the original post right now to make that clear.


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## Noman (Oct 17, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> An simple example might be the dom requiring the sub to wear a black velvet collar while in public (such as at work) to signal they are "owned". Some would do that gladly, others would balk at it


It's interesting that Princess Diana wore a lot of necklaces that rode high enough on her neck that they could be called a collar.

I don't think she was wearing them for her husband, though.



Personal said:


> Oh and I just want to add, there's nothing wrong with a man being less dominant than his wife.


@Personal, I'll have to take your word on that.



Talker67 said:


> ...so start small. maybe some light bondage sex toys? Velcro handcuffs, a blindfold, some soft nipple clamps, etc....might be a good first start? Buying such things is super easy nowadays online.


Those all sound like a good first step, assuming the discussion phase works out, which I think it will.

Would a pair of syringe nipple pumps be too kinky?


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> I agree. I think it is more like 100%.
> 
> And* for those who think their relationship is 50/50.*..they are the sub.



nailed it. This is precisely what Apparition (a sordid beta provider tale via SI) never got. And nobody told the poor guy. In the guy's first post, he cited how his 'best of all marriages" was an equal partnership - 50/50.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Noman said:


> It's interesting that Princess Diana wore a lot of necklaces that rode high enough on her neck that they could be called a collar.
> 
> I don't think she was wearing them for her husband, though.


THAT is an interesting theory!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Noman said:


> Would a pair of syringe nipple pumps be too kinky?


NOTHING is "too kinky". 

but there can be a shock factor. So introduce new things a little at a time!


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