# Once a cheater, always a cheater?



## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I'm not judging, but it seems reasonable to me.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/helenth...says-unique-study-of-infidelity/#30e96ad44103

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

TX-SC said:


> I'm not judging, but it seems reasonable to me.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/helenth...says-unique-study-of-infidelity/#30e96ad44103
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


*I cannot begin to argue with the premise!

After all, accomplished as well as amateur cheaters come to know and enthusiastically embrace the practice all too well!*


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I am sure there are cases where someone has had an affair and then gone on to be faithful thereafter, but I suspect that's rare. 
If they have the lack of character and moral values that enables them to cheat, they still have the same character and lack of moral values after that. 
Plus the fact that its not just the cheating, its the ability they have to lie and lie and lie, to deceive and betray the one they are supposed to love. I just cant lie, I am not made that way, I was bought up to be honest. Clearly these people have no problem with it.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

> It may be that some individuals have persistent relationship styles that tend to create a relationship context in which a partner’s infidelity is likely,


I think this is a huge statement.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think it's possible that a young person could behave poorly and then grow up. 

There are examples of that here on TAM.

By the time one reaches their 30's they're pretty much who they're going to be.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

People have been saying that here for years ... and the waywards would always complain “I don’t let one mistake define me as a person”. Yeah ... Right.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

The thought that occurred to me after reading this was this:

The article mentioned how infidelity can cause severe psychological trauma.....

Other studies and reports have cited the same thing....

And yet infidelity remains completely unaddressed by the legal system, which the exception of a few states or jurisdictions.

Right now society is very caught up....and rightly so.....in the emotional trauma that sexual harassment and assault have inflicted on victims (primarily women).

And people are losing careers and reputations over it as they rightly deserve.

So why can society acknowledge the damage of sexual harassment/assault and issue appropriate consequences on the perpetrators, BUT it turns a complete blind eye to the trauma that cheating POS’s do?

In particular since that trauma is not just to the betrayed partner but sweeps up children, families, and friends as well....

If we acknowledge that infidelity inflicts severe trauma on its victims, it is past time that society enables those victims to enact some appropriate consequences on WS and their POS AP’s.

Infidelity SHOULD impact asset division and child custody......alienation of affection suits should be legal everywhere against scummy AP’s.

And just like with the trash that engages in sexual harassment/assault.....

Don’t like the consequences?

DON’T DO THE CRIME!!!


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Dyokemm said:


> So why can society acknowledge the damage of sexual harassment/assault and issue appropriate consequences on the perpetrators, BUT it turns a complete blind eye to the trauma that cheating POS’s do?


Two things:

One, this isn't a good comparison because situations of sexual harassment almost never end up in the courts. The company simply fires the perpetrator. The only time it touches the courts is when the victim successfully gets a settlement.

Two, the cheater and the AP are both consenting adults.

If the victim(s) of the affair believes they have suffered significant trauma, I believe there are already legal remedies for that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

toblerone said:


> Two things:
> 
> One, this isn't a good comparison because situations of sexual harassment almost never end up in the courts. The company simply fires the perpetrator. The only time it touches the courts is when the victim successfully gets a settlement.
> 
> ...


There are exceptions. Sone people who have suffered severe and long term CSA may be more likely to cheat. 

So in some respects the cheater might not be a consenting adult, at least not in a meaningful sense.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

TX-SC said:


> I'm not judging, but it seems reasonable to me.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/helenth...says-unique-study-of-infidelity/#30e96ad44103
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Yeah, not always.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

toblerone said:


> Two things:
> 
> One, this isn't a good comparison because situations of sexual harassment almost never end up in the courts. The company simply fires the perpetrator. The only time it touches the courts is when the victim successfully gets a settlement.
> 
> ...


You misunderstood my point.....

I was not equating sexual harassment/assault with infidelity.....

I was pointing out that society is faced with two types of situation that are acknowledged to inflict severe emotional trauma on the victim....

For one (sexual harassment/assault), there ARE legal remedies......even if the system is extremely flawed and sometimes does not work well in bringing justice......and that is hopefully something that the current round of exposure of these scummy perpetrators will help to remedy.

The other (infidelity) is simply IGNORED in all but a few places.

That is simply wrong.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

People can change.

But it takes Olympian effort, and a lifetime of vigilance.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Dyokemm said:


> So why can society acknowledge the damage of sexual harassment/assault and issue appropriate consequences on the perpetrators, BUT it turns a complete blind eye to the trauma that cheating POS’s do?


My observation about sexual harassment is that your automatically considered a guilty rotten bastard when you're accused and even a bigger bastard when you challenge the verisimilitude of the accuser.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

People can and do change, but the saying is probably true often enough that it can be considered pretty reliable as a general rule.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> My observation about sexual harassment is that your automatically considered a guilty rotten bastard when you're accused and even a bigger bastard when you challenge the verisimilitude of the accuser.


This may be true but please point to me one instance in all the high profile examples that have happened in the last 3 months were this was the case? Has anyone even deputed the accusations? All the ones I can think of the guys admitted it and apologized.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> The thought that occurred to me after reading this was this:
> 
> The article mentioned how infidelity can cause severe psychological trauma.....
> 
> ...




Because many states lawmakers (politicians) are guilty of infidelity, why punish themselves?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I don't doubt most accusers are telling the truth about sexual harassment. My concern are the destruction caused by the ones that don't.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> I don't doubt most accusers are telling the truth about sexual harassment. My concern are the destruction caused by the ones that don't.


So what do we do not fire the Matt Lauers of the world? So far all the high profile ones seem to be good things to me.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

For clarification, what should be the minimum standard of evidence a company should use to discharge and employee for sexual harassment?


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think it's possible that a young person could behave poorly and then grow up.
> 
> There are examples of that here on TAM.
> 
> By the time one reaches their 30's they're pretty much who they're going to be.


I'm one. At age 22, I was pretty miserable for a couple of years after a girlfriend of three years cheated and then left me. After that, I dated as many ladies as I could and was usually involved with two or three relationships at the same time. By my mid 30's, it finally hit me at how I had really hurt a few nice women, who cared about me, when they found out about the other women. I've always been a laid back nice person, but for some reason, I did not have much empathy for those I were dating. 
For the past ten years, I have regretted those actions and I am certain that I would never do them again.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> This may be true but please point to me one instance in all the high profile examples that have happened in the last 3 months were this was the case? Has anyone even deputed the accusations? All the ones I can think of the guys admitted it and apologized.


There have been many cases where the man has denied it. However its nearly always the woman who is believed and that can cause some serious consequences.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> There have been many cases where the man has denied it. However its nearly always the woman who is believed and that can cause some serious consequences.


With the exception of that sociopathic, Bible-thumping pedophile Roy Moore, I believe they have all admitted there was sexual activity.....BUT several of them like that scumbag Weinstein have claimed the sex was consensual.

Problem those sh*tbags really have is this IMO.....

A single incident with a single woman......there MIGHT be cause to withhold judgement until a more complete looking in to the facts is done.....false accusation are extremely rare....but not impossible.

But when you literally have DOZENS of women claiming unwanted sexual advances, and in some cases outright rape?

Well.....I doubt their is a massive, and well planned/coordinated, conspiracy out to bring these POS’s down.

These dirtbags can claim consensual sex or deny all they want.....but at a certain point, the sheer numbers of accusations becomes an avalanche that can’t be denied.

For example, look at Russel Simmons......total claims of consensual sex at first.......but continuing reports of further episodes, including rape.....and suddenly he is resigning and disappearing to ‘reflect’ (just like that turd Weinstein).


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> For clarification, what should be the minimum standard of evidence a company should use to discharge and employee for sexual harassment?


Do you feel in any of the high profile cases there was a rush to judgement?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> There have been many cases where the man has denied it. However its nearly always the woman who is believed and that can cause some serious consequences.


Show me? Since this whole thing broke out I haven't seen one. What I have seen is a lot of fear that there will be one, but I have yet to see one. For all the talks about witch hunts and rush to judgements in almost every high profile one that happened the guy coped to it in some way.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

My own opinion on repeating adulterous behavior is that any cheater will cheat again, and probably with less hesitation each time, if there have never been any life-altering consequences from being caught. From my experience people only make major life changes if a serious life-altering event has occurred. I knew a lifelong alcoholic. He tried quitting drinking dozens of times. Went to inpatient rehab several times. He never quit. He drove drunk one night and crashed his car into another car containing a woman and her small child. Fortunately he didn't kill either of them but he did put them both in the hospital for considerable time, went to jail for 6 months, and lost his license to practice law. He has never had even a sip of alcohol since that night and it's been quite a few years now. What happened to him was life-altering and it cause instant positive change in his life. I view cheaters/repeat cheaters the same. That's why I think the worst thing others can do for a cheater is cover for them and minimize the destructive damage that a cheater is doing to themselves. The more severe the consequences are, the more life-altering getting caught is, and I think would increase the chances of positive change.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> I'm not judging, but it seems reasonable to me.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/helenth...says-unique-study-of-infidelity/#30e96ad44103
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Although this is a very small limited relationship study done by some grad students at the University of Denver, it's interesting to note that when you actually look into the numbers they utilized, a MAJORITY {55%} of the respondents that indicated cheating in the first relationship, indicated they did not cheat in the subsequent relationship. {this same study was discussed here on TAM several months ago and I broke down the numbers in my post on that thread ~~ http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/391705-once-cheater-always-cheater-new-infidelity-study-says-yes.html#post18314817}


Notice also it's a relationship study. It included single people who can morally date anyone they want at any time they want.

My criticism of the study and click bait title isn't in any way meant to be a defense of waywards and negating that prior infidelity is certainly a risk factor for future infidelity. It is. But unlike something like alcoholism where there is evidence that approximately 90 percent of alcoholics are likely to experience at least one relapse over the 4-year period following treatment {LINK}, the recidivism rate for adulterers is significantly less. 

My overall point is that it's not hopeless. Cheaters are not genetically, systematically or emotionally compelled to cheat again and again. Some do and serial cheaters should certainly get all the consequences, pain and shame associated with such behavior {and they almost always do and they always will} but MOST adulterers are just humans that mess up in a huge and destructive way. They can repent, make amends and fix and guard against their brokenness and become wonderful, trustworthy, productive members of society, families, and marriages. It happens all the time. They're just sinners like the rest of us.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Do you feel in any of the high profile cases there was a rush to judgment?


Yes. I feel there is a rush to defend, rationalize, minimize and justify the men's behavior while judging the veracity, severity, and motivations of the women's claims.

I tend to believe the women. 

I also tend to forgive the men that own it and apologize whereas I tend to have much more concern and less sympathy towards the ones that don't/won't.

The men that get falsely accused of harassment I sympathize with as well but really don't think such burden is as hurtful or difficult to overcome as the vast majority of women {or MOST women} that have, at one time or another in their entire lives, actually been sexually harassed and/or assaulted to varying degrees.


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## Primrose (Mar 4, 2015)

I'm sure it's generally true, but I like to think I'm proof that you can change if you put forth the effort.

I cheated when I was 22 years old. I'm now 33 and have never had another affair since.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Primrose said:


> I'm sure it's generally true, but I like to think I'm proof that you can change if you put forth the effort.
> 
> I cheated when I was 22 years old. I'm now 33 and have never had another affair since.



The way I like to say it is that I haven't had an affair yet.

The reasons I think it's better to say it that way is:

1. The majority of people that commit adultery never believed or conjured the idea they were susceptible to doing so ever in their lives.

2. You can't avoid a problem or risk you don't acknowledge as being a risk, or, to put it another way, if you don't believe yourself to be at risk to ever cheat you're less likely to guard against it because you believe yourself immune and impervious to such breakdown in character. Such belief IS a risk factor because you can't take risks without being at risk.

3. We are all human, prone to sin. Adultery made the list of the Ten Commandments for a reason.

4. It only takes seconds of weakness to fail.

5. As a betrayed husband {and fornicator prior to marriage~ another risk factor}, it's such a short walk to the rationalization and justification that I'm entitled to at least one "get out of jail free ~ cheat on my spouse card" that I need to be diligent about my boundaries and the threat to my family.


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## Primrose (Mar 4, 2015)

Quality said:


> The way I like to say it is that I haven't had an affair yet.
> 
> The reasons I think it's better to say it that way is:
> 
> ...


You are presuming that I see no risk. Untrue. I chose to implement boundaries long ago that I no longer cross/continue to adhere to. 

I do feel I can say I will never do it again. That doesn't mean I allow myself to be in situations where lines can cross.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Quality said:


> My overall point is that it's not hopeless. Cheaters are not genetically, systematically or emotionally compelled to cheat again and again. Some do and serial cheaters should certainly get all the consequences, pain and shame associated with such behavior {and they almost always do and they always will} but MOST adulterers are just humans that mess up in a huge and destructive way. They can repent, make amends and fix and guard against their brokenness and become wonderful, trustworthy, productive members of society, families, and marriages. It happens all the time. They're just sinners like the rest of us.


Where is your study that says this. At least we have a study on our side that says that is not true. Personally I think they are like alcoholics. For instance lets just take your normal criminals, About 68 percent of 405,000 prisoners released in 30 states in 2005 were arrested for a new crime within three years of their release from prison, and 77 percent were arrested within five years. I don't know why anyone just thinking logically would think adultery would be any lower then that. Those stats aren't a some study those are a fact. Presumably the criminals know they are going to jail, have been to jail and they still commit the crimes. Adultery has a far less harsh punishment for most especially if you really don't feel empathy which most cheaters don't. Just based on those statistics and what that says about human nature I think they ARE genetically, systematically or emotionally compelled to cheat again. Just like these criminals will commit crimes again. It's in their nature. I would say at least 75% do just using the criminal statistics as a marker.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Where is your study that says this. At least we have a study on our side that says that is not true. Personally I think they are like alcoholics. For instance lets just take your normal criminals, About 68 percent of 405,000 prisoners released in 30 states in 2005 were arrested for a new crime within three years of their release from prison, and 77 percent were arrested within five years. I don't know why anyone just thinking logically would think adultery would be any lower then that. Those stats aren't a some study those are a fact.


And you can bet that those weren't the only ones who returned to criminal activity--they were just the ones who got caught. Cheaters also get better at not getting caught.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Primrose said:


> You are presuming that I see no risk. Untrue. I chose to implement boundaries long ago that I no longer cross/continue to adhere to.
> 
> I do feel I can say I will never do it again. That doesn't mean I allow myself to be in situations where lines can cross.


I agree with your approach. Alcoholics shouldn't hang out in bars. A lot of people mocked the current Vice President when he said he doesn't do social things with other women alone, ever. He said it would be disrespectful to his wife. I 100% agree. Regardless of how you feel about his politics, this is a great boundary he has and shows a lot of respect for his wife. I also don't do lunches/dinners/social things with other women alone. Group settings, sure, but one-on-one? Never.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Where is your study that says this. At least we have a study on our side that says that is not true.


Who is "we" and why is there an "OUR SIDE"? You're fairly unique here seeing that you aren't even a betrayed spouse or a wayward spouse so could this be an indication that you are posting under multiple posting names?

What study are YOU referring to being on your side? This study doesn't even conclude that "most" self-confessed cheaters are "always a cheater" and the small sample INCLUDES single persons who have little at stake when choosing to simply start dating others. I believe that study was done over five years and I'm not shocked she got a number of 45% recidivism because she/they included single persons; and, more significantly because they ONLY include people that cheated and DID NOT reconcile - recall everyone had to have had two relationships and the "always a cheater" crowd had to cheat, leave the relationship {or be left} and then get another serious relationship within the sampling time period and cheat again - accordingly {and without buying the actual study} there are probably not a ton of people in that sample group that were married, cheated, divorced and cheated again on a second spouse. If they cheated subsequently on their affair partner - that's hardly statistically significant because that's really just poetic justice. 


Risk is relative and people aren't numbers. 

Some cheaters are just like depraved criminally delinquent alcoholics and will absolutely cheat again and again without remorse or empathy.

Most are not. Most are just humans that messed up royally ~ sinners like the rest of us. 

We are all hard-wired genetically to have affairs. Being human is a risk factor. Because you or anyone, in particular, hasn't cheated YET isn't something to be proud of until you or your spouse are dead. Please come back then and let us know how you, personally fared. 

Dilly Dilly


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Quality said:


> Who is "we" and why is there an "OUR SIDE"? You're fairly unique here seeing that you aren't even a betrayed spouse or a wayward spouse so could this be an indication that you are posting under multiple posting names?
> 
> What study are YOU referring to being on your side? This study doesn't even conclude that "most" self-confessed cheaters are "always a cheater" and the small sample INCLUDES single persons who have little at stake when choosing to simply start dating others. I believe that study was done over five years and I'm not shocked she got a number of 45% recidivism because she/they included single persons; and, more significantly because they ONLY include people that cheated and DID NOT reconcile - recall everyone had to have had two relationships and the "always a cheater" crowd had to cheat, leave the relationship {or be left} and then get another serious relationship within the sampling time period and cheat again - accordingly {and without buying the actual study} there are probably not a ton of people in that sample group that were married, cheated, divorced and cheated again on a second spouse. If they cheated subsequently on their affair partner - that's hardly statistically significant because that's really just poetic justice.
> 
> ...


 I don't agree at all that we are genetically hardwired to have affairs. 

If someone has it in them to cheat, then they have it in them to cheat again. Once they cheat once, its not such a big deal to do it again. Personally I wouldn't trust a man or be with a man who had cheated, even if it wasn't with me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Well. I know human nature. We all pretty much suck deep down but we also have the miraculous ability to choose change.

I grew up through things most can only imagine and I turned into a very dangerous, promiscuous and hard young man.

I've changed a lot in the years and mostly for the better.

Mrs. Conan was the OW twice, got cheated on and cheated in both of her marriages before me.

By the time she met me she had learned from her bad choices, wanted to devote herself to God and has been a steady influence for good, mostly, in my life since.

Human nature isn't easily pegged by once a cheater always a cheater.

Once a sinner doesn't mean you always have to be.

I have snapped men's bones while smiling at their pain.

The same act today would cause me to feel sick.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Just as a Bell can't be Un-Rung... How does a Cheater Un-Cheat?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Where is your study that says this. At least we have a study on our side that says that is not true. Personally I think they are like alcoholics. For instance lets just take your normal criminals, About 68 percent of 405,000 prisoners released in 30 states in 2005 were arrested for a new crime within three years of their release from prison, and 77 percent were arrested within five years. I don't know why anyone just thinking logically would think adultery would be any lower then that. Those stats aren't a some study those are a fact. Presumably the criminals know they are going to jail, have been to jail and they still commit the crimes. Adultery has a far less harsh punishment for most especially if you really don't feel empathy which most cheaters don't. Just based on those statistics and what that says about human nature I think they ARE genetically, systematically or emotionally compelled to cheat again. Just like these criminals will commit crimes again. It's in their nature. I would say at least 75% do just using the criminal statistics as a marker.


Most prisoners once released have nowhere and nothing to go to. Either don't or simply cannot fulfill their parole requirements. Do you know that in some states now that to attend a parole meeting with a parole officer the former prisoner has to cough up a payment....$60 in some states? When it's already difficult to find a job due to their history, the situation appears hopeless and we know what happens when there is no hope.......

I would not compare prison recidivism to repeating adulterous acts.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I don't agree at all that we are genetically hardwired to have affairs.
> 
> If someone has it in them to cheat, then they have it in them to cheat again. Once they cheat once, its not such a big deal to do it again. Personally I wouldn't trust a man or be with a man who had cheated, even if it wasn't with me.



I agree. This is one of those situations in which I see 3 groups of people:

1. Those will never commit adultery.
2. Those who will commit adultery either serial adultery or who feel entitled: ie, When I see something I like I go for it.....
3. Those who might if the opportunity arose; boundaries in the marriage are weak and so on.

I think Group 3 can be saved.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> People can and do change, but the saying is probably true often enough that it can be considered pretty reliable as a general rule.


.

Agreed whole heatedly. I don't think my EXW has changed at all. Still shallow and unable to communicate.
.
Hey @GusPolinski, can't believe I only just realized where the name came from after seeing Home along for the 322nd time last night. Oh what a dope.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

NextTimeAround said:


> I agree. This is one of those situations in which I see 3 groups of people:
> 
> 1. Those will never commit adultery.
> 2. Those who will commit adultery either serial adultery or who feel entitled: ie, When I see something I like I go for it.....
> ...


I think there can also be; 
4. Those who were in a marriage struggling with issues (sexual, communication, stress, abuse) - let an affair happen out of spite.

I remember thinking that I could have easily slept with a barmaid I met in Monaco one trip away in my previous marriage when I was particularly disheartened in my communication-less marriage. I remember thinking that I couldn't live with myself and also how hard it would be to call my wife the next morning and tell her I cheated. It didn't occur to me to lie to myself or my ex-wife. I don't think either of those concerned my EXW when she cheated.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I don't agree at all that we are genetically hardwired to have affairs.
> 
> If someone has it in them to cheat, then they have it in them to cheat again. Once they cheat once, its not such a big deal to do it again. Personally I wouldn't trust a man or be with a man who had cheated, even if it wasn't with me.


There are people that change. It has to be a conscious thing though. People who don't cheat generally learn their morals early on from their parents. If what they learned sticks, all is good. However sometimes someone may have been raised badly and may have cheated but after seeing the destruction it caused came to their own conclusion that they needed to implement their own moral code and stick to it. I'm not saying this is a common thing but it does happen. 

Also I don think there are people that are genetically more inclined to cheat. That doesn't mean they will, but perhaps are more tempted. Personality is always a combination of nature and nurture. People are born with certain traits which are modified by their life experiences.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Rhubarb said:


> There are people that change.


This is true. Cheating _more than once_ and not learning is, to me, a much bigger red flag.
Maybe I'm too generous, but I'd allow a person one mistake if they learn from it. 



> Also I don think there are people that are genetically more inclined to cheat. That doesn't mean they will, but perhaps are more tempted. Personality is always a combination of nature and nurture. People are born with certain traits which are modified by their life experiences.


Not sure if that said "do" or "don't", but I think "the science shows" that men with higher levels of testosterone are more likely to cheat. 

What I do know is, most of the people I see who have cheated, did not "feel entitled" to, or set out to. They slipped, tiny step by tiny step, just exactly as described in Shirley Glass's "_just good friends_" book, and did not take Pence-style precautions because they didn't think of themselves as the sort of person that needs to. They had no intention of cheating, so they saw no need to "build a fence" around themselves and keep themselves safe.
The question for me is whether they then learned that about themselves.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Duke Lacrosse is an example of women lying about sexual crimes. It does happen.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

RWB said:


> Just as a Bell can't be Un-Rung... How does a Cheater Un-Cheat?




It can't be un-done, but it's how the human being learns to cope and react to change for the better. Does this person commit to changing fully? Are they willing to self reflect? A person can change, I have, my wife has, and we are both better because we committed to being better people. As a youth I was lost in many ways, brought home by the police on many occasions. Until the police saw my dads response to having an escort home, the police would drop me off a block from my house. Obviously I wasn't a very good person, and by Gods grace I didn't kill anyone during that time. I now stand for good, I'm a much better person and contribute positively to society. Changing is in the mind of the beholder, you have to ask yourself how bad do you want that change?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I have snapped men's bones while smiling at their pain.
> 
> The same act today would cause me to feel sick.


Conan, we have something in common. Except my method was turning people's heads into red mists. It haunts my dreams now.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

People cheat for many reasons. My fWW and I were in a bad place. I filed for D, we were separated for 3 yrs. I told her to do whatever she wanted, because I didn't care. She did.
In counseling she admitted that she was angry with me, lonely, and wanted something better. Would she have cheated if I stayed and showed I cared? Who knows.
She also said she liked the attention of some guys (like a drug it gave her an emotional high), but would they have showed her so much attention if her loving husband was around? Never excuses but contributing factors.

Would she ever cheat again, knowing that I am forever the loving, caring husband that will stay and never accept her being with OM again. Who knows?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Conan, we have something in common. Except my method was turning people's heads into red mists. It haunts my dreams now.


Not to TJ but sorry. I hate the darkness that use to be in me and still lingers. Hope good things make all that sh1t fade more and more for you.


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