# Interfaith marriage: christian fundamentalist spouse



## metta

Hello,

I am looking for some help and some external point of view as I am very down...
My wife is christian and I am buddhist. When we met 8 years ago, and none of us was deeply religious.

Since January this year, my wife met another woman who is an evangelical christian. She started to attend church with her new friend and very quickly went very deeply in this religious revival. She started lecturing me and tried to convert me; I was listening patiently (most of the time!), but I was not interested.

The TV started to be tuned to god channel and the likes. Christianity invaded our household day and night. Everything, big or small, was either the mark of god or of the devil. Bad weather, murders reported on TV, every piece of news was a sign of the end of times. To my opinion, she became negative, arrogant in her faith, blind to simple explanations of "miracles" and above all absolutist. She detained the Truth, it's not that she was believing in something, or that she believed she knew the truth, she was simply assessing (quite vehemently by the way) "this is the Truth and everything else is false".

Over the years, on my side, I also went more deeply into buddhism, although it is was a much slower process for me. Shortly after my wife became fanatically, I started to attend a vihara (theravada buddhist place of service). I also on my side went deeper into my faith.

We have a lovely daughter who is 6 years old now. My wife bought some books for her, and I had no problem reading these little christian books to her. I believe in freedom, and I always thought that our daugter would learn from both of us and make her own choice later in life.

My wife decided to attend a chrisian seminar this week-end, which means that I will have to look after our daughter this week-end. Yesterday we had a benign telephone conversation, and I mentioned that I will bring our daughter to the vihara. 5 minutes later, I called her for some other things, and she told me that she wouldn't like that I bring our daughter there.

That was a shock to me. I always considered obvious that, being a buddhist, it would only be natural for me to talk to my daughter about it. I felt it was intolerant from her to say that to me... I think for all these months I just closed my mind to the fact that my wife was becoming more and more intolerant and close minded, and this simple phrase opened my eyes in quite a brutal way.

That evening, I brought the subject back after her daughter was fast asleep. She tells me that I am the father of the child, so I can teach her my religion if I wish, but that would bring her to hell. Myself I would go to hell if don't give my life to Jesus. This is the Truth, etc. etc. I then said that I think that in a couple with 2 different religions, each parent is free to teach the child about his/her faith, and then the child is free to chose whatever he/she wants later on in life. She didn't like that and told me that god will anyway bring her child back.

I now feel very stressed and distressed... I thought about it the whole day, and honestly, I can't think of living the rest of my whole life in such a relationship. The biggest problem to me is her absolutism: "this is the Truth". It closes any discussion, and closes minds. I feel like she is on a high pedestal lecturing me, I feel we are not equal footed. I reckognise her legitimacy to believe what she believes, but I feel she is not giving me the same. Being equal is fundamental in a couple... But at least there is still some sort of respect.

We are searching for a 2nd child for a few years now, but she has some fertility problems. Now, I don't think I want anymore children with her...
If it was not for our daughter, I would seriously think about divorcing... I love my daughter so much, divorcing now would break her, I would be ready to endure a few more years for her...

I would appreciate your comments, as I am very much confused, I don't know what to do or what to think... Am I making a fuss about it, or am I right to feel so stressed and desperate? Would it be unfair to tell my wife I don't want children anymore?

Thank you so much for your help, and sorry for the length of the post!


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## RandomDude

I went through the same thing with the missus 2x, first time was before marriage, and led me to get frustrated, angry, and drunk -> and I cheated on her. Fast forward past the reconciliation, the preggies and then the marriage, last year she tried to pull it on me again, but she did it using her church against me - I set her straight quite harshly because I had no choice.

There's a section in the men's clubhouse called N.U.T.S. which you should read, it's in regards to setting boundaries and she has to understand and respect your faith otherwise you're not going to put up with hers. You have to be firm in this, and perhaps a bit harsh. Religious tolerance goes both ways.

The thing is though my wife has always been into her religion since I first met her, but before she attended bible college years ago she was very different and strong in her faith and focused on love, acceptance, and forgiveness, instead of intolerance, superiority, and arrogance. There's a bad side to Christianity in which the missus once called modern day "pharisees".

I used her past to remind her of who she is and told her that I will not put up with her being the very same person that she once preached that she hated to become. But that's just my way. You have to find another way to make her realise that what she's doing is very ungodly. Unfortunately you may have to use her own religion against her, study the bible yourself, read this:

1 John 4:8
1 Corinthians 13:1 
James 2:1-4
Acts 10:34-35
Galatians 6:10

As those guidelines read the rest of the story, the difference between the old and new testaments (the old is all about laws, the new is all about love - selflessness), it's a reflection on one's own individual spiritual journey for some, like the missus. She has to be made aware of the general message being taught in the word, and that is love, acceptance, forgiveness, and even if she disagrees with your faith, it's her duty as a Christian to love and respect your right to your own beliefs.

If she can't accept that, then start doing drastic measures or move on. If she does accept it then you'll be fine. After a while the missus realised that she and I both worship love and selflessness, and although there are things she doesn't agree with; like my belief in embracing the "natural order in chaos" and accepting myself for my urges and feelings, or my belief that my God doesn't really give a crap about me lol

But she accepts it, and I guess I think in a way we're both a bit confused because we've been together so long our faiths have intertwined into something else lol


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## metta

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your reply.
I can't find that "nuts" section?... Could you post a link?

Thanks for the Bible quotes.
The problem with my wife is that she thinks that loving me means telling me the Truth, even if it hurts, even if I don't like that, etc... She does not think that it means accepting me as I am, apparently...

I also forgot to mention that up until this January, she had no problem whatsoever with my religion. She even told me a number of times that she was proud that I was a buddhist!
What a change now! Now I am doomed to eternal hell!

I had some more reflections, and I have to admit that I do not appreciate what she is becoming. Negative, absolutist, black or white (nothing in the middle, it's either god or the devil), intolerant, arrogant, you name it.
All those christians on TV (and herself as well) think black or white. No wonder they always complain of being persecuted, since everything that does not fit what they think is agreed by god must be from satan... They are all really throwing their brains (and critical thinking) into the toilets. Probably after a few months of such brainwashing, you would really turn schizo!

All in all, I am not sure I am happy my children would be taught such a set of "values". So I would tend to say that I would have anymore children with her...

Cheers


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## PFTGuy

metta said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks a lot for your reply.
> I can't find that "nuts" section?... Could you post a link?
> 
> Thanks for the Bible quotes.
> The problem with my wife is that she thinks that loving me means telling me the Truth, even if it hurts, even if I don't like that, etc... She does not think that it means accepting me as I am, apparently...
> 
> I also forgot to mention that up until this January, she had no problem whatsoever with my religion. She even told me a number of times that she was proud that I was a buddhist!
> What a change now! Now I am doomed to eternal hell!
> 
> I had some more reflections, and I have to admit that I do not appreciate what she is becoming. Negative, absolutist, black or white (nothing in the middle, it's either god or the devil), intolerant, arrogant, you name it.
> All those christians on TV (and herself as well) think black or white. No wonder they always complain of being persecuted, since everything that does not fit what they think is agreed by god must be from satan... They are all really throwing their brains (and critical thinking) into the toilets. Probably after a few months of such brainwashing, you would really turn schizo!
> 
> All in all, I am not sure I am happy my children would be taught such a set of "values". So I would tend to say that I would have anymore children with her...
> 
> Cheers[/QUOTE
> 
> I don't know if I have any helpful advice to offer, but I certainly understand how difficult these circumstances must be for you. One thing that might be of benefit is a Christian marriage counselor (she probably wouldn't go to a secular one anyway, right)? A third party, from an authoritive position of wisdom who might not be quite so adamantly fundamentalist, might be able to offer her some alternative views of the scriptures and teachings on which she is basing her beliefs.
> 
> As a person who has had a Christian walk of faith now for about 10 years, I have found myself moving gradually from a fundamentalist understanding to a more liberal perspective. There may be hope that as she matures, she will be able to relinquish some of her childish views and grow in wisdom and acceptance of your beliefs.
> 
> Namiste


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## RandomDude

Heh I know EXACTLY how you feel, I've been there mate. And yes, I heard the tune before, "I love you so much, I don't want you to go to hell!" Haha :rofl: oh those times WERE hell! 

You just have to learn how to try to use the bible to "convert" her back to tolerance and acceptance not fundamentalism. It's a real challenge though - I know, especially when you're a Buddhist (I'm a "pagan" myself).

For me I sowed the seeds for years but only when it really got to a breaking point that she finally listened. So even with all the study and preaching, I still had to break her down. I understand how you feel about your children too, hell you remind me so much of the dramas I faced, I shared all your thoughts during my own interfaith crisis.

This is a tough one mate


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## greenpearl

Hi,

If she is a good Christian, she also has to realize that in the Bible, the wife has to be respectful to her husband even though he is an unbeliever. 

A lot of Christians are condescending and judgmental. They think they are the only truth religion. They think they are better than others. Buddhism is actually more open minded about other religions. 

In my opinion, there is no hell, there is no heaven. If you learn to live a peaceful life, you achieve heaven like life on earth. If you don't learn to live a peaceful life, you make this life a hell.


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## metta

PFTGuy said:


> I don't know if I have any helpful advice to offer, but I certainly understand how difficult these circumstances must be for you. One thing that might be of benefit is a Christian marriage counselor (she probably wouldn't go to a secular one anyway, right)? A third party, from an authoritive position of wisdom who might not be quite so adamantly fundamentalist, might be able to offer her some alternative views of the scriptures and teachings on which she is basing her beliefs.
> 
> As a person who has had a Christian walk of faith now for about 10 years, I have found myself moving gradually from a fundamentalist understanding to a more liberal perspective. There may be hope that as she matures, she will be able to relinquish some of her childish views and grow in wisdom and acceptance of your beliefs.


Hello,

Thanks for your post.
Probably she could get some advice from some other Christians... But personally, I feel that I would need a marriage counsellor who is neutral for me to come in. 
I'll have some thoughts about it.

Many thanks!


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## metta

RandomDude said:


> Heh I know EXACTLY how you feel, I've been there mate. And yes, I heard the tune before, "I love you so much, I don't want you to go to hell!" Haha :rofl: oh those times WERE hell!
> 
> You just have to learn how to try to use the bible to "convert" her back to tolerance and acceptance not fundamentalism. It's a real challenge though - I know, especially when you're a Buddhist (I'm a "pagan" myself).
> 
> For me I sowed the seeds for years but only when it really got to a breaking point that she finally listened. So even with all the study and preaching, I still had to break her down. I understand how you feel about your children too, hell you remind me so much of the dramas I faced, I shared all your thoughts during my own interfaith crisis.
> 
> This is a tough one mate


That's somehow a relief to me to see that other people went through that sort of journey! (although I feel sorry such things happen, they shouldn't in my opinion)
Thanks a lot for your post!

I'm still a bit confused about how to handle the situation, but things are starting to get a bit clearer in my mind. I'll need that to talk to her when she's back! I need to maintain some distance, at least emotionally.

I also forgot to mention that she has quite a bad temper. I was able to see some progress on that point for the first few months, but now it's going from bad to worse...

Cheers


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## metta

Dear greenpearl,



greenpearl said:


> If she is a good Christian, she also has to realize that in the Bible, the wife has to be respectful to her husband even though he is an unbeliever.
> 
> A lot of Christians are condescending and judgmental. They think they are the only truth religion. They think they are better than others. Buddhism is actually more open minded about other religions.
> 
> In my opinion, there is no hell, there is no heaven. If you learn to live a peaceful life, you achieve heaven like life on earth. If you don't learn to live a peaceful life, you make this life a hell.


My wife would fall squarely into the description you gave.
I like the way you see heaven and hell, it makes a lot of sense to me. Like RandomDude said before, such people could make your life like hell on earth!

Regards


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## cb45

hmmm, christian and buddhist. heard/read this (here) before; sounds alot like 
some posters who go by many, perhaps too many, other 
monikers/avatars.

seems christians & christianity are being invaded (here) once
more, in perpetuity perhaps? to wear out the saints perhaps?
(selah)

yet, if the real-deal someone else here lemme then say/add
my perception based on scriptures i have read/lived/and in 
process of living even now.

seems to me that simply put as solomon put it: there are 
seasons in life for all things, ala the song "turn turn turn" by
the byrds (60's?) written by peter segeer.

seems to me that u & wifey are going yer separate ways
perhaps. for there are times we can coexist with others &
their beliefs in life, for a time, times and half a time (selah) but
not for *ALL time*!

Unless two are agreed they cannot walk the same road 
together (for long, that is....ask paul n barnabas e.g.);
this proverb goes deeper than most here are WILLING to 
comprehend. its mysteries are still being unraveled in my
own life, i do declare.

Your "opinion", my "opinion" doesnt equal squat! Unless of
course, it agrees with God's truth as revealed by Yeshua and
the H>S> 

opinions are like belly buttons; everyone has one (usually, lol)
but whats a belly button worth, nowadays, post-partum, ladies
gents? (selah)

most of us hear/read/believe what we want to, & call it "truth"
based on our limited, and what i read here all too often, LAZY*(!)*lack of resources or poor study habits/lack
of bible scholarship, NOR humbleness to ALWAYS ask for H>S> 
revelation/understanding; NOT our own!

i err oft likewise myself. yet, i am always trying to stay watchful, diligent, and aware(s). i seek & enjoy the same
from those whose company i keep.

shalom aleichem, not as the world gives but......."


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## metta

Dear cb45,

Thank you for your interesting post, although it's a bit cryptic for me...

I noticed that you have read other posts similar to mine, would you be so kind to post me the links?

Many thanks!


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## SimplyAmorous

Regardless of what religion we are talking about, when one starts exhibiting the actions & speech of a hard core Fundamentalist, your reasoning with them pretty near STOPS - unless you agree with them, of coarse. 

They have taken on a NEW set of RULES to follow to obey their GOD & be His chosen follower. A new foundation has been laid and beings they are taught GOD is #1, they will feel as though they are not honoring HIM to agree with anyone outside of their beliefs, this is SIN to them, worthy of death many times. 


You are NOW dealing with 2 separate mindsets ...and you will not see eye to eye unless YOU agree with them, admit you are lost and only their version of God can save you from yourself. As you can see, and are experiencing, this creates quite the Marraige dilemma. Love , Compassion, Tolerance and Understranding NOW take a back seat to "*Doctrine *" and "*Creeds*" of a specified belief. 

It suddenly becomes .....*US against THEM*... *Black vs White*.... *Satan vs God*....*Flesh vs Spirit*..... *Lost vs saved*.... *faith vs reason *..... *Heaven vs Hell*.... *Holy Book vs heretical book*..... *Truth vs falsehood*.... you get the drift. 


Why Fundamentalism is Wrong

.


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## metta

SimplyAmorous said:


> Regardless of what religion we are talking about, when one starts exhibiting the actions & speech of a hard core Fundamentalist, your reasoning with them pretty near STOPS - unless you agree with them, of coarse.
> 
> They have taken on a NEW set of RULES to follow to obey their GOD & be His chosen follower. A new foundation has been laid and beings they are taught GOD is #1, they will feel as though they are not honoring HIM to agree with anyone outside of their beliefs, this is SIN to them, worthy of death many times.
> 
> 
> You are NOW dealing with 2 separate mindsets ...and you will not see eye to eye unless YOU agree with them, admit you are lost and only their version of God can save you from yourself. As you can see, and are experiencing, this creates quite the Marraige dilemma. Love , Compassion, Tolerance and Understranding NOW take a back seat to "*Doctrine *" and "*Creeds*" of a specified belief.
> 
> It suddenly becomes .....*US against THEM*... *Black vs White*.... *Satan vs God*....*Flesh vs Spirit*..... *Lost vs saved*.... *faith vs reason *..... *Heaven vs Hell*.... *Holy Book vs heretical book*..... *Truth vs falsehood*.... you get the drift.
> 
> 
> Why Fundamentalism is Wrong
> 
> .



Hello,

Thanks for your post, that's a good summary of what is really happening. I'll have a look at the link as well.

We had a discussion yesterday evening. She said she was sorry for hurting me the day before, which is about the only positive thing that came out of this discussion.
My main problems were that I felt she was placing herself above me and that she was not giving my back the respect I have for her religion.
Her answers were that I place myself where I want, that's up to me, and that she is indeed intolerant for everything that's not approved by god... She was almost proud to be intolerant!

I sent her a couple of links with advice for interfaith marriages. She dismissed both of them: one is some humanist crap, the other has been written by a hardcore christian, but she shrugged it off saying there are many people who call themselves christians but who are not!!!
I also pointed her to a division of christianism called "universal reconciliation" that say that all humans will be saved in the end even the non-believers, but she again dismissed it without looking at it saying again this is humanist crap...

She obviously spoke to me at length of her religion. She seems quite fixed on those miracle healings, being slain in the spirit, etc. During her seminar, she said a woman behind her has been cured from blindness. Now, hold on to your seat, that's quite amazing. She then told that now, she could see "a bit better"!!!
:rofl:
So (a) she was not blind before, just partially blind, and (b) she was not recovered full sight after, just a bit!
Incredible! The most amazing is that she told me 5 minutes before that there are indeed some fake healings, yet it didn't reach her mind that this story was real laughable! She just select what's coming into her mind.
BTW, I googled "fake miracle healing" and some very interesting stuff about it!

She started to talk to me about christians being persecuted. I pointed her to the case of the akha people and chrisitian missionary work there: 20,000 akha women being sterilised against their will, rape, children trafficking for prostitution, etc. She immediately started questioning "why a christian would do that?" etc, and kept coming back to persecution of christians. I found this sort of behaviour not very much balanced! It's quite shocking actually. If she is so much full of love, how come that she didn't thought about these women, before acting defensively?

At some point, she told me that if it's too difficult for me to support her, I can leave and let her live her life... Although I think she said that in anger.

She also recognised that she is now a different person, and she can't think about my religion as before (i.e. before she was born again). She also recognised that it is probably disturbing for me, which is right to say the least.

All in all, there is still communication between us, some form of respect, and some form of love (or is it dependency?), and also some willingness from both sides to carry on. But that discussion led to nowhere really...

I don't know where to go from there, because although the discussion ended up nicely, I feel even more than before that we really see the world and the life in 2 very different ways. 

Best regards


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## cb45

metta said:


> Dear cb45,
> 
> Thank you for your interesting post, although it's a bit cryptic for me...
> 
> I noticed that you have read other posts similar to mine, would you be *so kind *to post me the links?
> 
> Many thanks!


boldface is my emphasis. cb45

sure, "i am willing...." See below threads listed already 4 ya.

sometimes i am "cryptic"; sometimes its YOU/others. "check yer own ego at the door" before u come in, perhaps. u'll find u have yer own receptor problems too, capice?

typical tho', one reads/listens to another and MISSES/Ignores 
their point, perspective, facts, crux of whatever they are saying/writing/displaying (as the case may be), by asking/discusing footnotes, sources, & the like.

tsk, tsk.


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## cb45

look down below on this page, yes! see? SIMILAR THREADS


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## greenpearl

Metta,

You can ask your wife what she is trying to achieve. 

Going to the meetings and studying the Bible is to help us have a better life, if what she is doing is disturbing your family's peace, is this really what she wants? She has to know that. 

You give her the respect and freedom for having her belief, she is supposed to do the same. You two started your marriage life with different believes. She changed, you didn't change. Why is she creating problems for your family and marriage?

Christianity teaches people to be closer to their family, not become more distant. If she becomes more distant from you, then something is not right. Hope she understands it.


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## RandomDude

> but she shrugged it off saying there are many people who call themselves christians but who are not!!!


Well, I would agree with that comment, but not with her, I agree with it out of irony :rofl: 
Regardless it's not a christian's duty or place to judge one another - tell her this the next time she sprouts this. (As impossible as it is to not judge lol)

You're in a difficult position, and this phase may only last a while or may last for the rest of her life. It seems her mind has become completely closed off and refuses to think for herself.

So tell her something that my wife once told me so long ago; I asked her about questioning her God - as she does all the time, as I'm used to Christians refusing to question ANYTHING, refusing to think, and instead, relying on "faith". I asked my wife how can her faith be so strong yet she questions EVERYTHING.

She replied very simply "If a Christian is afraid to question, their faith is weak". It made a lot of sense to me, as her faith could not be shaken by any answer that she may have found, and instead empowers her. Compare this to those who narrow their minds and listen blindly to "faith" instead of using their God-given hearts and intelligence.

It's kinda funny in a way, she radiated so much light before she entered bible college, yet through the darkness I was like a "memory stick"; as I remembered who she was. And after many headaches I brought back the woman who I fell in love with heh. 

I have no ill will towards Christianity, but that's only because I've seen firsthand how strong, loving and amazing the religion itself can make someone. I've seen the bad sides, but 'the yoke is light and path is narrow' apparently (that verse itself can be interpreted in different ways - meh I like wifey's interpretation)

Hope it gets better mate, your wife has the potential to be closer to God, but sometimes God and the church are two different things. I may be "pagan", but I couldn't help but adopt some of wifey's preaching back in her sunshine days.


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## SimplyAmorous

greenpearl said:


> Christianity teaches people to be closer to their family, not become more distant. If she becomes more distant from you, then something is not right. Hope she understands it.


Accually Greenpearl , I agree with you , any religion worth it's salt with show LOVE and tolerance of others, most especially if they are living the Golden Rule. BUT some will USE scriptures like this to show they are right in acting the way they do , even in hurting the family ..... 

Luke 14:26 .... "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple" If you google any commentary on this, it will tell you Jesus did not really mean HATE but the meaning is.... in order to be a disciple of Christ, you must love him more than any other being, Your beliefs come 1st, family is 2nd, lessor. 

Now that she is a Born Again Christian, she has a new view of marriage, feeling her partner must be "equally yoked" with her. As long as she takes this seriously, she will be praying to convert you ... it says in 2 Corinthians 6:14-15.... ." Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 

Christianity is an "EXCLUSIVE FAITH GROUP", not all religions are, but this generally makes them less tolerable of other beliefs......unless they are the more liberal minded christians which Fundamenatlists all feel are NOT christians at all, even your wife saying this sounds very familiar ...


> but she shrugged it off saying there are many people who call themselves christians but who are not!!!


Inter-faith marriages: beliefs and practices of different faith groups


She JUST got into this, sometimes people go OVERBOARD in the new excitement, get obsessive but then quickly BURN OUT and come to their senses, seeing alot of this is hype, just like the blind lady was not really blind. Let's hope your wife is just taken to a little zelousness right now, that if she stops, takes a breather, looks around her & evaluates what she is accually saying & HOW she is treating those she has always loved & gotten along with very well , maybe she will come out of it, or at the very least TONE it down some.


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## RandomDude

Also metta...

You have to bear in mind too really, religion is definitely the toughest hurdle that we had to pull through. Throughout our time together, it has caused a lot of heartache, pain, and scars that will never heal. When I first met my wife I had never respected, loved or admired anyone more. I literally couldn't believe she could exist; she just blew my mind away. Then the pain came... of watching her fall, and becoming someone who she once told me she'll never become.

Through the frustration I painfully withdrew my support for her, and that's when it got worse. Over time I began drinking heavily and ended up having a one night stand, shattering us for the longest time - the infidelity still haunts us to this day. And last year, when she used her church, friends, and family all to get her way with me, trying to manipulate me into submission, justifying it by her so-called "faith". I joined this forum for that reason.

Two lessons learnt from the above 2 cases: The first, don't withdraw your support for her, if you love her, keep at it. Pull through with her. The second, be loving, compassionate, and supportive, but still be firm, don't compromise your beliefs and don't let her walk over you.

I was never a man who believed in putting my faith in anything however, except with her. Except for that one time, since coming back to her, I kept with her, because the first impression my wife gave me was too incredible to let it get lost (again). My wife may have still changed, but every time that angel in her comes out is worth the hundred times the devil comes out instead.

So keep who she was in memory, keep that beautiful Christian woman in your mind who was not only tolerant, but when her faith made her only stronger, loving, respectable and admirable. It may help, as it sure is helping me, and maybe in the future, once you two overcome it -> you two will only become stronger, and she will be even more amazing then you had thought possible


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## SimplyAmorous

Good words of Wisdom there Randon Dude! 

We can't give up on our loved ones, even if they drive us a little C R A Z Y for a time , hang in there , keep the faith IN THEM, carry them for awhile , in due time, if they come to their senses -they will love & thank you for putting up with them, might even have a few laughs over it all .


I was TOO religious at one time, I was never outrageous though , some things I could never give up like Rock Music & romance novels, I liked the world a little TOO MUCH to go over board. 

BUT still, I used to harp on my poor husband how he didn't pray enough, read the bible enough, I drug the poor man to Church 2-3 times a week, I think he learned to let ME go in one ear and out the other to put up with me, I rambled on about spiritual things more than he cared to hear, always reading Christian books at night when he wanted sex, running to Bible studies, not sure Why --as I was always causing an uproar with my VERY difficult & controversial questions, I was known for that. 

I learned alot from those earlier experiences, enough to know me & him are ALOT happier with who I am TODAY, our marraige, than who I was, or thought I was , or striving to be -back then.


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## greenpearl

Accually Greenpearl , I agree with you , any religion worth it's salt with show LOVE and tolerance of others, most especially if they are living the Golden Rule. BUT some will USE scriptures like this to show they are right in acting the way they do , even in hurting the family 


SA, I think this is people's problem, they misinterpret what's really in the Bible. They want to feel important, they want to fit in, so they let the blind lead them. 




Luke 14:26 .... "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple" If you google any commentary on this, it will tell you Jesus did not really mean HATE but the meaning is.... in order to be a disciple of Christ, you must love him more than any other being, Your beliefs come 1st, family is 2nd, lessor. 


We have to understand we are still human, it is difficult to become Jesus's disciple since you have to give up what you have in the world. Not everyone became Jesus' disciple, but we can still listen to his wisdom. It's difficult to live as a Buddhist too. They also have to give up what they have in the world. They do the hard work, they search for the wisdom, and we listen. But we don't have to become like them. It is difficult, because we are human, we have all the desires. 

Now that she is a Born Again Christian, she has a new view of marriage, feeling her partner must be "equally yoked" with her. As long as she takes this seriously, she will be praying to convert you ... it says in 2 Corinthians 6:14-15.... ." Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 


Something I don't like Christianity is they are too condescending towards others. If you are not with them, you are against them. Only they are right, others are all wrong. When you do meet a person who has this kind of attitude, spending time with him or her is suffocating. 

Metta's wife right now is being blinded by the association she has in her church. She wants to fit in, so she is doing what she thinks others might be happy about. She wants to make people in her church happy. It is actually very silly. She is not trying to make God happy, she is trying to make people in her church happy. When we are not confident about ourselves, we try to make people happy. It only brings a lot of pressure and stress to us.


Christianity is an "EXCLUSIVE FAITH GROUP", not all religions are, but this generally makes them less tolerable of other beliefs......unless they are the more liberal minded christians which Fundamenatlists all feel are NOT christians at all, even your wife saying this sounds very familiar ...

I think every religion has people with sound mind, and every religion has fanatics. Things become complicated as long as human is involved.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

greenpearl said:


> I think every religion has people with sound mind, and every religion has fanatics. Things become complicated as long as human is involved.


Absolutely :iagree: In fact, putting aside religion, that is true about ANY GOOD thing. Just as a crazy example... Once I was on a Parenting forum and this lady was still breastfeeding (a good thing) her son at 5 yrs old , it might have even been 6 - I forget now, my mouth hung open reading it ! I was like....whoooaaaaaa and my of my how she defended herself , infact a couple breast feeders came out of the wood work and joined her. 

Kinda blew me away, but I realized through that, anything decent , meant for GOOD can still be taken TOO FAR, to where it has the potential to damage others in it's path.


----------



## metta

Wow! A lot of responses! Thank you so much for that!

Thanks a lot RandomDude and SimplyAmorous for sharing your stories, this gives me some hope and lifts my heart a bit!



greenpearl said:


> Going to the meetings and studying the Bible is to help us have a better life, if what she is doing is disturbing your family's peace, is this really what she wants? She has to know that.
> 
> You give her the respect and freedom for having her belief, she is supposed to do the same. You two started your marriage life with different believes. She changed, you didn't change. Why is she creating problems for your family and marriage?


That's quite true indeed... I suppose up to now I subconsciously thought I just had to accept it. But it's true she brought this radicalised religion at home and it permeated almost everything in our household. Before we used to chat about politics and economics. I can't do that anymore: within 30 seconds, she will start saying these are the end of times, all that has been predicted in the bible, etc.



RandomDude said:


> She replied very simply "If a Christian is afraid to question, their faith is weak"


That's a good point actually. Because I noted that she tends to react angrily and violently when anyone has some misplaced talks. The most amazing is that she thinks she is free from that very specific behaviour, she thinks that if someone speaks against Christianity or state challenging questions or ideas, this does not affect her. Yet I can see clear it does big time by the way she reacts. That's quite a worrying inconsistency...
Also, tt might be a double-edged sword... Fundamentalists have ready-made answers to everything that threaten them: it's from Satan...

Thanks a lot for sharing your story. There is also a big problem to my wife, and that's buddhism does not have a god. She told a number of times how wrong that is not to worship your creator, etc.
But I think it's a red herring. If I was jew or muslim, she would have just the same level of problem because I wouldn't believe in jesus. Even so, if I was catholic, she would say that I have evil practices by revering the saints, etc. Well, it's just my thinking here! (but she did disparage the catholics quite a few times!)

I also forgot to mention before that she is apparently OK with the fact that some missionaries actively try to break local cultures and religions, because they do not worship the true god. I have to admit that I find this plainly fascist. This is one of the few things I have some real difficulties with.



SimplyAmorous said:


> Accually Greenpearl , I agree with you , any religion worth it's salt with show LOVE and tolerance of others, most especially if they are living the Golden Rule. BUT some will USE scriptures like this to show they are right in acting the way they do , even in hurting the family .....
> 
> Luke 14:26 .... "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple" If you google any commentary on this, it will tell you Jesus did not really mean HATE but the meaning is.... in order to be a disciple of Christ, you must love him more than any other being, Your beliefs come 1st, family is 2nd, lessor.


That's exactly that. Very shortly after being born-again, she told me that god will always come first, and I will come second. I had absolutely no problem with that at that time, because I thought religion would help become a better person.

I am so happy to be a buddhist! I follow the early school, with the canonical scriptures reporting the teachings of the buddha (we don't view these scriptures as holy, sacred or perfect in any way). These scriptures are about 11 times the size of the bible, and yet nowhere you will find a need to interpret texts in such a way, and its content is consistent throughout, in the letter and in the spirit. The quote of the bible you mentioned, taken literally, can indeed lead to a lot of harm.



SimplyAmorous said:


> she will be praying to convert you


You must have installed a webcam in our house!  That's exactly what is happening indeed! Personally, I think she should pray to accept me as I am, that would be true love instead of trying to change others.



RandomDude said:


> Two lessons learnt from the above 2 cases: The first, don't withdraw your support for her, if you love her, keep at it. Pull through with her. The second, be loving, compassionate, and supportive, but still be firm, don't compromise your beliefs and don't let her walk over you.


These are good pieces of wisdom! I'll try to follow that indeed!



greenpearl said:


> Metta's wife right now is being blinded by the association she has in her church. She wants to fit in, so she is doing what she thinks others might be happy about. She wants to make people in her church happy.


I am not sure if this really applies to my wife. She even claims that she is not following a religion! As if claiming it makes it true. 
There is one thing that is sure, she is now very close-minded. She even claimed just that when there was this question of bringing my daughter to the buddhist service: she told me that we buddhists are open, but christians are closed...
More exactly, I feel she selects the information that enter into her brain and subconsciously discards everything else.

Thank you so much everyone for all your answers. It's a very good thing I started this discussion, it helps me tremendously to get some perspective and understanding.

Best regards


----------



## metta

I am also starting to realize that although her reasoning appears logic, I might question it. I always viewed the willingness to change others as a sort of harmful behaviour.
But if she just sticks to this new religion and set of values, I can't see how I will be able to stay with her... it might be worth starting questioning some of her statements and ideas...


----------



## Sameold

Metta--she's praying to convert you because she cares about you. Think for a moment about what she believes will happen to you when you die if you don't convert. Of course you don't believe that. But she does. Wouldn't it be wrong for her to not do everything she can to prevent that, given what she believes to be true? If you believed that something that terrible would happen to her, wouldn't you be doing everything you could to prevent it? You'd stop her from walking into the street in front of a moving car, after all. Look at First Corinthians chapter 7, particularly 12-16, for what she's probably been told, or read for herself if she's doing a good job of reading.

The claim to not be following a religion--that's specific to the sort of Christianity your wife is involved in. Religions, in this context, would be where rituals and forms are elevated above the relationship with God. (Hence the comments about Catholicism.)


----------



## metta

Hi Sameold,



Sameold said:


> Metta--she's praying to convert you because she cares about you.


I perfectly understand and accept that, I have no problem with it whatsoever. In the same vein, I patiently listened to her trying to convert me (I have to admit I got a bit upset sometimes when she way trying every other day)...

Best regards


----------



## FirstYearDown

greenpearl said:


> Hi,
> 
> If she is a good Christian, she also has to realize that in the Bible, the wife has to be respectful to her husband even though he is an unbeliever.
> 
> *A lot of Christians are condescending and judgmental. They think they are the only truth religion. They think they are better than others.* Buddhism is actually more open minded about other religions.
> 
> In my opinion, there is no hell, there is no heaven. If you learn to live a peaceful life, you achieve heaven like life on earth. If you don't learn to live a peaceful life, you make this life a hell.


:iagree: We all have to walk our own spiritual path. I believe in God, but I am not a Christian. My husband is an atheist and even though I do not like that, I do not pressure him to adopt my beliefs. 

We did not marry in a church, because neither of us are religious, so it made no sense. It is not fair to run to church to marry and then never attend otherwise.

I was once at a party that was filled with staunch young Catholics. They said that their religion was the only right one. I couldn't help myself, so I asked: "Are you enjoying your career as an effing idiot?" :rofl:

SimplyAmorous, I knew a man who was breastfed until he was TEN. Ugh!


----------



## RandomDude

metta said:


> That's quite true indeed... I suppose up to now I subconsciously thought I just had to accept it. But it's true she brought this radicalised religion at home and it permeated almost everything in our household. Before we used to chat about politics and economics. I can't do that anymore: within 30 seconds, she will start saying these are the end of times, all that has been predicted in the bible, etc.


It's doomsday! We are all gonna die! :rofl:
What a sad world for our offspring... I'd rather my daughter lives her life to the fullest without worrying about the end of the world unless there's a confirmed meteorite heading for the earth or if environmental factors are going to mess up - in which I'm a bit of a greenie in that respect.



> That's a good point actually. Because I noted that she tends to react angrily and violently when anyone has some misplaced talks. The most amazing is that she thinks she is free from that very specific behaviour, she thinks that if someone speaks against Christianity or state challenging questions or ideas, this does not affect her. Yet I can see clear it does big time by the way she reacts. That's quite a worrying inconsistency...
> Also, tt might be a double-edged sword... Fundamentalists have ready-made answers to everything that threaten them: it's from Satan...


Focusing too much on Satan as a lesser power is rather troubling for Christians I've noticed, there's too much fear of the unknown being used in churches when they should be instead using better faith to inspire people to conquer that fear, and live their life in accordance to love, forgiveness, respect and selflessness. Same principle as driving a car, you look too much on one way you will naturally steer towards it.



> Thanks a lot for sharing your story. There is also a big problem to my wife, and that's buddhism does not have a god. She told a number of times how wrong that is not to worship your creator, etc.
> But I think it's a red herring. If I was jew or muslim, she would have just the same level of problem because I wouldn't believe in jesus. Even so, if I was catholic, she would say that I have evil practices by revering the saints, etc. Well, it's just my thinking here! (but she did disparage the catholics quite a few times!)
> 
> I also forgot to mention before that she is apparently OK with the fact that some missionaries actively try to break local cultures and religions, because they do not worship the true god. I have to admit that I find this plainly fascist. This is one of the few things I have some real difficulties with.


Heh me too, it's something I don't tolerate either; I have very strong opinions against genocide, ethnic or cultural, and ethnocide. In fact, politically speaking with others of my people I agree with them and condemn more opening of churches in our motherland, as our ancient beliefs have been suppressed long enough as well as how Christian evangelists there have targeted the weak and even promoted Western ethnocentric views to my people.

Thankfully our people are very stubborn and proud, and instead many have made our own version of Christianity (We had a history of Nestorian Christianity and Christian rulers - but Nestorianism doesn't seem to have shared the same genocidal tendencies of other evangelical sects; as the beliefs merged and was quite acceptable)

I was always firm in this, and genocide is something I simply can not tolerate. Nor do I believe in wiping out Christianity from the earth as that too will be throw the world off balance. They call us "pagan" but we believe in the natural order of the world and the balance; we are dedicated environmentalists and preventing the extinction of cultures is the same as preventing the extinction of species. Guess you can call this cultural relativism.



> That's exactly that. Very shortly after being born-again, she told me that god will always come first, and I will come second. I had absolutely no problem with that at that time, because I thought religion would help become a better person.
> 
> I am so happy to be a buddhist! I follow the early school, with the canonical scriptures reporting the teachings of the buddha (we don't view these scriptures as holy, sacred or perfect in any way). These scriptures are about 11 times the size of the bible, and yet nowhere you will find a need to interpret texts in such a way, and its content is consistent throughout, in the letter and in the spirit. The quote of the bible you mentioned, taken literally, can indeed lead to a lot of harm.


Christianity can help to make people better, I've seen it in my wife, that's actually why I learnt from her in the past. It's kinda funny really, I was so against Christianity until I met her. Yet as stubborn as I was I could not disregard her wisdom and her aura was simply too magnetic it led me to "convert" willingly. I never did convert by neglecting my own beliefs sure but I adopted many of our shared principles.

But with all religions it's a double-edged sword. Even Buddhism has a bad past in some parts of the world (including my people) with theocracy and even justifying genocide. My own "pagan" beliefs was never organised enough to be used in such a way but unfortunately as liquid in form as it is, it also has lacked the ability to prevent wars and there were even war shamans. Always a dark side 

My wife was inspiring enough in the past to have Muslims, buddhists, atheists, and even "Pagans" like me supporting her willingly and to listen to her wisdom. She walked an anointed path so to speak. I still remember one Muslim friend of hers telling my wife back in her awe-inspiring days that she wants to convert to Christianity and go up to the altar and give her life to Christ. 

My wife shockingly did not encourage it, but instead told her that she shouldn't do it for the church nor is giving her life to Christ a religious act that can only be achieved through the altar, it's between her and Christ. I was going to my wife at the time "WTF?! Isn't that what you want?" :rofl: But my wife informed me that Christianity shouldn't be turned into a religious fest of 'pharisees' but a true relationship between one and God. She was a shocker really, accepting and tolerant of other beliefs, yet she converted people - without using fear, without using guilt, using only love.

She got condemned by her own church many times especially when she refuses to ask for offerings quoting the bible, but they kinda shut up when she recieved offerings from people anyway without even the need to ask; people from all walks of life wanted to support her and her message - even I. You can understand how painful it was to see that change as she got submerged into her religion and to watch them break her. Was like an aura fading too... thankfully she's getting her wisdom back slowly.



> You must have installed a webcam in our house!  That's exactly what is happening indeed! Personally, I think she should pray to accept me as I am, that would be true love instead of trying to change others...
> 
> I am not sure if this really applies to my wife. She even claims that she is not following a religion! As if claiming it makes it true.
> There is one thing that is sure, she is now very close-minded. She even claimed just that when there was this question of bringing my daughter to the buddhist service: she told me that we buddhists are open, but christians are closed...
> More exactly, I feel she selects the information that enter into her brain and subconsciously discards everything else.


Oh that is a dangerous mentality for a parent and I personally would have nothing to do with it. This is your daughter too and don't give in for any reason. This is how you have to deal with this; don't give up in your commitment and support for your wife, but don't give up in yourself either. Same thing I've been telling you, you have to stand tall and hope she wises up - and if you yourself set a good example enough chances are she will, and continue to remind her who she was.

Looks like you are correct, she is proud of her intolerance. Have you told her what I told you about questioning her beliefs and her strength in faith yet? She may not hear it straight off the bat but sow the seeds and maybe the fruit will come. As the voice will echo... echo... echo until she finally wakes up lol



metta said:


> I am also starting to realize that although her reasoning appears logic, I might question it. I always viewed the willingness to change others as a sort of harmful behaviour.
> But if she just sticks to this new religion and set of values, I can't see how I will be able to stay with her... it might be worth starting questioning some of her statements and ideas...


I've seen how Christians go through these phases trying to find a way closer to God, I've seen them turn bad, then turn good, then turn bad, then turn even better. It's a spiritual journey, and she's your wife. Let her go through her paces, keep guiding her no matter how stubborn she seems, show her the irony that the very same principles she fights to uphold are practiced instead by you; she's human and she will notice, and after a while she may get sick of it and wise up.


----------



## metta

We had another discussion yesterday evening, this time more positive.

I started by asking her for a break in our search for a child, which I knew would be quite tough. I felt I needed that because I couldn't relate to her and her new values anymore, and needed some time to settle down. 

Her reaction has been anger (albeit in a sort of controlled manner). She told me I can go if I want to, I am unhappy at heart while she is so good, she is not attached to anyone but to her jesus, etc. She again talked to me at length of her religion. I have to admit I thought it was not a great start...

She started to ask me what are those differences, so I explained them to her: that it's OK to destroy local cultures and religions, it's OK to dislike that a dad teachs his religion to his children because it's not the true religion, it's OK to be intolerant, polarised god/devil view of the world, etc.

We discuss about those, and I think we made some progress in terms of understanding each others point of views. I don't see our differences as irreconcilable anymore, although they are still significant.

I also got firmer in my convictions and started questioning her on some points. I was pleased to see that she didn't get angry at all and was happy to answer to the best of her knowledge. When she started to say "god loves you", etc. I asked her how could god love me and send me to hell for eternity? On this one, she has not been able to provide a satisfiying answer, she just said that when we die, we will be judged, and then she does not know what god will decide...

Still, this is some progress to the previous warnings of "you're going to burn in hell if you don't give your life to jesus".

I was so happy we had this discussion, it kept us awake almost all night. I even told her I feel emotionally better and OK to look for a child again (confused? me?, noooo where do you get this idea!).
Then I said we should agree on the religious education of our future children in order to avoid the issues we had with our daughter. She said "OK, what do you want?" I said I want to tell them about my religion, read them some books for children about buddhism and bring them to the buddhist service if they are happy to come with me.
She first said that's OK. Then she said that she asked god to give her a child and she will give the child back to god when he/she is old enough. She then started to elaborate some sort of convoluted contraptions saying that I can teach them about buddhism, but she can't agree with it, but I can do it because I am the father of the child, maybe she is committing a sin, etc.?!?! :scratchhead:
I think I hit a stumbling block here... Wait and see!



RandomDude said:


> It's doomsday! We are all gonna die!


The end of the world has been predicted many, many times in the last 2000 years. Yet if you closely look at the bible, the 2nd coming of jesus should have been very swift, within a generation:
1 Th 4:15-17
Mt 24:34
Mt 16:28



RandomDude said:


> Heh me too, it's something I don't tolerate either; I have very strong opinions against genocide, ethnic or cultural, and ethnocide. In fact, politically speaking with others of my people I agree with them and condemn more opening of churches in our motherland, as our ancient beliefs have been suppressed long enough as well as how Christian evangelists there have targeted the weak and even promoted Western ethnocentric views to my people.


I have to admit she put forward some valid arguments. She comes from a poor country, where people in remote villages sometimes suffer from famine, and certainly diseases, malnutrition, where children die from trivial things. In those case, probably those people would be happy to move forward and get a bit of modernity for their betterment.
Yet, I don't think this must mean that they have to give up their culture or religion.
She also thinks it's OK to ask such people to come to church in exchange of some food. This is a big no-no to me, I consider this unethical.



RandomDude said:


> Thankfully our people are very stubborn and proud, and instead many have made our own version of Christianity (We had a history of Nestorian Christianity and Christian rulers - but Nestorianism doesn't seem to have shared the same genocidal tendencies of other evangelical sects; as the beliefs merged and was quite acceptable)


Would you mind tell me more? I am interested!
You can PM me, that's no problem!



RandomDude said:


> But with all religions it's a double-edged sword. Even Buddhism has a bad past in some parts of the world (including my people) with theocracy and even justifying genocide.


I would be interested to know more once again!



RandomDude said:


> She got condemned by her own church many times especially when she refuses to ask for offerings quoting the bible, but they kinda shut up when she recieved offerings from people anyway without even the need to ask


That's it! I found it so funny on god tv etc. when some televangelists ask viewers to "sow a seed". There are entire programs just for that. My wife actually fell for one of those and paid a very significant sum of money with her credit card. I was not fantastically pleased with that, especially since she didn't ask me first. She understood her mistake afterwards and now get upset every time she sees them on TV!
We do tithing though: half for her and half for me.



RandomDude said:


> Oh that is a dangerous mentality for a parent and I personally would have nothing to do with it. This is your daughter too and don't give in for any reason. This is how you have to deal with this; don't give up in your commitment and support for your wife, but don't give up in yourself either. Same thing I've been telling you, you have to stand tall and hope she wises up - and if you yourself set a good example enough chances are she will, and continue to remind her who she was.


Thanks for the advice. I think I was behaving completely the opposite, keeping my religion for myself because it is meant to be non-invasive to other people, but I got overwhelmed. It's a shame I needed this crisis to wake up to that, but I will definitely correct things now. This household will now be a buddhist/christian household.



RandomDude said:


> Looks like you are correct, she is proud of her intolerance. Have you told her what I told you about questioning her beliefs and her strength in faith yet? She may not hear it straight off the bat but sow the seeds and maybe the fruit will come. As the voice will echo... echo... echo until she finally wakes up lol


I indeed started a bit. We human often underestimate how we can impact others. I agree with you: planting some seeds from time to time will make a big change in the long run.
I already noticed that in the past, on completely different matters. Sometimes I suggested her how to do things in a better way, etc. With her temper she usually reacted negatively. Yet a few weeks later, I was able to see she adopted what I said!



RandomDude said:


> I've seen how Christians go through these phases trying to find a way closer to God, I've seen them turn bad, then turn good, then turn bad, then turn even better. It's a spiritual journey, and she's your wife. Let her go through her paces, keep guiding her no matter how stubborn she seems, show her the irony that the very same principles she fights to uphold are practiced instead by you; she's human and she will notice, and after a while she may get sick of it and wise up.


That's a good roadmap indeed!

Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts and experiences! It helps me tremendously!

Kind regards


----------



## RandomDude

Heh looks like there is still hope! You are sowing the seeds, that is good! Keep at it mate, no matter how long it takes! =)



> The end of the world has been predicted many, many times in the last 2000 years. Yet if you closely look at the bible, the 2nd coming of jesus should have been very swift, within a generation:
> 1 Th 4:15-17
> Mt 24:34
> Mt 16:28


The missus, unlike most Christians, actually doesn't believe in the doomsday; which I found quite strange. She sees the word as more of a reflection of her own life and spiritual journey (the whole bible from beginning to end) rather then to take everything so literally. She also has other non-mainstream beliefs due to that mindset; like she feels heaven and hell are closer then most of us think -> and I agree with her.



> I have to admit she put forward some valid arguments. She comes from a poor country, where people in remote villages sometimes suffer from famine, and certainly diseases, malnutrition, where children die from trivial things. In those case, probably those people would be happy to move forward and get a bit of modernity for their betterment.
> Yet, I don't think this must mean that they have to give up their culture or religion.
> She also thinks it's OK to ask such people to come to church in exchange of some food. This is a big no-no to me, I consider this unethical.


Targeting the weak eh? They do that all the time in my motherland, and I despise it utterly. Even worse, is how they ask for tithes, like the missus' church goes around the world and preaches a 10% rule - yet not once in the bible has that been mentioned.



> Would you mind tell me more? I am interested!
> You can PM me, that's no problem!
> I would be interested to know more once again!


Ok sure! Check your pm



> That's it! I found it so funny on god tv etc. when some televangelists ask viewers to "sow a seed". There are entire programs just for that. My wife actually fell for one of those and paid a very significant sum of money with her credit card. I was not fantastically pleased with that, especially since she didn't ask me first. She understood her mistake afterwards and now get upset every time she sees them on TV!
> We do tithing though: half for her and half for me.


Haha! And guess where the money goes -> in the missus' church the leaders change their cars every other month, and the pastor himself lives in his mansion. Her church has world famous music, but also an infamous reputation of materialism amongst many.



> Thanks for the advice. I think I was behaving completely the opposite, keeping my religion for myself because it is meant to be non-invasive to other people, but I got overwhelmed. It's a shame I needed this crisis to wake up to that, but I will definitely correct things now. This household will now be a buddhist/christian household.


I too believe in guiding children without forcing them through a religion. When they grow up I want my daughter to make her own mind. It's something I never compromise, and my wife has realised this early -> I can be very lenient in many other things, but anything in regards to my daughter's well being, I will never break (I had a difficult childhood). I don't mind my wife teaching my daughter Christian principles, in fact I even encourage it, but as long as its HER Christian principles not the churchie stuff! :rofl:



> I indeed started a bit. We human often underestimate how we can impact others. I agree with you: planting some seeds from time to time will make a big change in the long run.
> I already noticed that in the past, on completely different matters. Sometimes I suggested her how to do things in a better way, etc. With her temper she usually reacted negatively. Yet a few weeks later, I was able to see she adopted what I said!
> 
> That's a good roadmap indeed!
> 
> Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts and experiences! It helps me tremendously!
> 
> Kind regards


Anytime mate =) Keep at it, you're doing good work!


----------



## metta

RandomDude said:


> The missus, unlike most Christians, actually doesn't believe in the doomsday; which I found quite strange. She sees the word as more of a reflection of her own life and spiritual journey (the whole bible from beginning to end) rather then to take everything so literally. She also has other non-mainstream beliefs due to that mindset; like she feels heaven and hell are closer then most of us think -> and I agree with her.


I am sure your wife would not fit the "christian" mould with that sort of thinking! I mean of course the mould created by other "christians"... What a pity...
That reminds me that once I told my wife I think there are more differences between the different schools of buddhism than schools of christianity. How wrong was I! Eg:
- calvinism => everything is pre-determined; god has already chosen those who go to heaven and those who go to hell, you can't do anything about it; intellectually honest calvinists push the reasoning to say that god created sin :rofl:
- Martin Luther: killing peasants makes god happy, you can commit 1000 murders per day, that's OK as long as you believe in jesus, etc.
- mormons (fundamentalists), amish: polygamy
- universalists: even non-believers will be saved
- catholics: you must revere the saints as well and do charitable work to be saved, pope is the head
- pentecostal/evangelical: supernatural healings, slain in the spirit, etc. (rejected by some other christian denomination)
- etc.

Looking back at it, buddhists are in fact a very homogeneous group!



RandomDude said:


> Targeting the weak eh? They do that all the time in my motherland, and I despise it utterly. Even worse, is how they ask for tithes, like the missus' church goes around the world and preaches a 10% rule - yet not once in the bible has that been mentioned.


Yes, these are really immoral practices.
That's interesting to know that tithing is not in the bible, I'll have a look at that.



RandomDude said:


> Haha! And guess where the money goes -> in the missus' church the leaders change their cars every other month, and the pastor himself lives in his mansion.


She once "tricked" me to go in her church. She told there was some sort of evening with her church's friends. I didn't realize it was just a full service at the church! Anyway, I said yes so I went there. She introduced me to the pastor, and he had indeed a brand new tuned BMW! I can't say it was bought with the church's money, though, maybe it was genuinely his car...



RandomDude said:


> I too believe in guiding children without forcing them through a religion. When they grow up I want my daughter to make her own mind.


Logically, I think it's better to teach the child about all religions. When he/she is ready to make his/her mind up, he/she would have been fully informed and would probably be less likely to turn to something else when some doubts come.
But I suppose my wife is too afraid her children will be caught into the dark side of the force!  Maybe she should have more faith in her god!
But I agree with you, I would not compromise on that point.


----------



## RandomDude

Aye she's indeed non-mainstream, very few are like her, and as the bible claims "the path is narrow". The funny thing is how Christians hate each other from time to time, like how I like Nestorianism because it was adopted by some of my people in history but never imposed on our culture; but many belief it was a "flawed teaching" lol

BTW tithing is from the bible, but not a 10% rule as my wife's church preaches ("you must give 10% of your income" etc). Btw does that pastor you mention have a job? Because if his only income comes from the church it's kinda obvious where he got the cash for it from.

Heh the dark side of the force :rofl:
And yes, she definitely needs to learn about faith, love, and hope, instead of fear, guilt, intolerance and hate that comes from her church. It's quite interesting how Jesus himself was against the religious folk; pharisees.

My wife's beliefs may have been unorthodox, but never has the bible made so much sense to me then when she told me about it - especially for a "pagan" like me who hated Christianity. 

And the message she didn't just preached, she lived, you could just feel the aura about her in the past, and she gave the glory to God. If anything, her being humble in this was more dangerous then anything I've seen Christians preach; it converted Muslims and atheists and even made a stubborn-as-hell "pagan" like me adopt some of her teachings lol


----------



## metta

Just a note about how the forum works.
I received a number of PMs and replied to all of them, but I can't find my answers anywhere in my "user control panel"...
I can I know if the answers were actually sent?

Many thanks!


----------



## RandomDude

Erm it should work, you should know it's send if it has an "arrow" on the icon.


----------



## metta

Yes, I can see the arrow indeed!
Cheers!


----------



## metta

I wanted to talk a bit about her conflict about the children religious education, but she doesn't want to talk about it. She told me to do whatever I want without informing her or asking her permission... 
I asked her if that is not something which could come back and bite us, and she told she will try her best put up with it...

She told me how her and her friends prayers healed (once again) one of her friend's children, and how jesus healed that boy. As usual, doctors could not understand how he healed so quickly. I suggested that he might have healed naturally. She said that was possible, but she believes it's jesus who did that.

She spends a lot of time praying for other people, to heal them physically, psychologically and spiritually. When some success can be seen, it's immediately attributed to jesus without considering natural processes first... Maybe the good vibes from all this goodwill surrounding the child had some effect, who knows?

It's not because doctors do not understand a number of things that we can directly jump to the conclusion that god did it. Generally speaking, doctors are not very good at anything, anyway. More often than not, they are clueless about what's going on, even if they rarely say so to their patients!

It's the wider fallacy to attempt to discard science because it can't explain everything in the universe. The gaps in science are then explained by god's works. Science can't explain everything, but it can explain SOME things, so there is no need to throw it to the bin.

Science is evolving anyway. Very recently, scientists in Geneva may have found in one of their experiment that some particles travelled faster than the speed of light, which is impossible in Einstein's theory. *If* this proves true, this means that quantum physics would need to review their theories. Every scientist will understand and accept that, they will not cling to old beliefs in the face of the evidence.

I once asked her what's her problem with science, she answered she has no problem with it. Then she said that some christian scientists have proved that the earth is about 6,000 years old. I asked her to send me some links about that; I am still waiting...


----------



## meserimu

Reading all of this has really helped me just knowing that there are people out there trying to work through the same feelings as me. My husband after 10 years of a very happy and loving marriage has gone completely fundamentalist christian out of the blue! He had a lutheren fundamentalist upbringing but from a very early age walked away from the church. At the age of 43 and with no warning he stood up one night and announced that 'god' had spoken to him......since then everything that you have descibed in your mails plus much more has come into our lives. My husband refuses to do anything now but worship and it's costing him everything around him...he is only just holding onto his job....but apparently that is gods will. I'm at a lose as to what to do and he is now making many 'demands' on what is expected of me and has become a complete stranger......I fear that i am loosing my marriage and the love of my life. it's very hard to just wake up one day and feel like everything you had has just disappeared in one second. It's helped reading some posts on this forum


----------



## metta

meserimu,



meserimu said:


> Reading all of this has really helped me just knowing that there are people out there trying to work through the same feelings as me. My husband after 10 years of a very happy and loving marriage has gone completely fundamentalist christian out of the blue! He had a lutheren fundamentalist upbringing but from a very early age walked away from the church. At the age of 43 and with no warning he stood up one night and announced that 'god' had spoken to him......since then everything that you have descibed in your mails plus much more has come into our lives. My husband refuses to do anything now but worship and it's costing him everything around him...he is only just holding onto his job....but apparently that is gods will. I'm at a lose as to what to do and he is now making many 'demands' on what is expected of me and has become a complete stranger......I fear that i am loosing my marriage and the love of my life. it's very hard to just wake up one day and feel like everything you had has just disappeared in one second. It's helped reading some posts on this forum


Mid-life crisis!
My father also almost snapped when I was a teenager...

Your situation looks worse than mine... My wife never asked me anything, except for trying to convert me from time to time (but she stopped now) and asking me to go to church with her (which I am not ready to do at all right now).

On top of that, I think when people enter that sort of closed mindsets, they completely refuse to take advice from "external" sources. If you want to go for a marriage counsellor, I bet that your husband will only accept a christian one, and not any sort of christian, BTW, it must be from the proper denomination!

From my (still ongoing) experience, the key is communication. Personally, I didn't like conflicts and problems and tend to avoid them by accepting and keeping quiet. But sometimes, some problems are too big to accept. That's when you need to stand up and get things corrected.

Remember: the first person deserving your love is yourself. Your husband has no right to impose his "new" religion into the household and you have no duty to accept it. The first thing for you to do I think would be to take some distance emotionally from your husband, otherwise it's very difficult to think straight.

These new fundamentalist movements tend to emphasise that the wife must somehow submit to her husband, who is considered the head of the household. What bull****!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

metta said:


> Just a note about how the forum works.
> I received a number of PMs and replied to all of them, but I can't find my answers anywhere in my "user control panel"...
> I can I know if the answers were actually sent?
> 
> Many thanks!


The way this forum is set up is -- unless you check the little square box below your "advanced" message reply, saying you want a "COPY of the sent message", it won't be in your sent messages folder -but Yes, they are still sent. YOu will notice that little "arrow" Random mentioned beside the message you orginally read & replied too.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

metta said:


> meserimu,
> 
> 
> Mid-life crisis!
> My father also almost snapped when I was a teenager...


I have a few books on *Mid Life Crisis *, and I would agree, this could be the start of one and BE his "outlet". One of my books describes 6 Archetypes - looking for our Missing Peice (this book focuses on the Female mid life crisis but I would think the male could be very similar )

1. *The Adventurer *- physical adventure, bold traveling, skydiving, exceeding personal limits.

2. *The Lover *- either finding that love you never had, or an awakening in your marrage & sex life, loosing all prior inhibitions, sexually desiring to live like you was young again, passion filled & full of new found creativity. (I can vouch for this one  )

3. *The Leader *-starting a new business out of the blue, entering Politics- doing something with a meaningful legacy.

4. *The Artist *- suddenly organizes a life around self expression- whether it be music, writing, sculpture, painting, filmaking, acting, etc. 

5. *The Gardener *-this person has already lived it up, traveled the world , discovered disillusionment and concludes that the best path to wisdom is tending her own garden..which is her home, family, friends, community- learning to cherish & live deeply in the moment.

6*. The Seeker *-- ascribes a central importance to finding a set of spiritual beliefs and practices that afford meaning and acceptance. Some get DEEPLY INVOLVED in an established church . 

As with all of these, the potential is there to take each one TOO far, *the Adventurer *might kill himself trying to climb Mount Everest, *The Lover *might fall into an affair seeking new passion, *the Leader *might spend all his /her life savings on a dream & go bankrupt, *The Artist & the Gardner *sounds relatively "sound", keeping feet on the ground- but I am sure they can go overboard too -maybe neglecting thier family or job in these new pursuits ....and ...... *the Seeker * has the potential to throw himself into a new religion with such zealousness, a Fundamenatlist mindset is lurking quickly behind.


----------



## Parrothead

greenpearl said:


> Christianity teaches people to be closer to their family, not become more distant.


On the contrary, Christianity teaches that these kinds of things are expected.

Matthew 10:34-36:

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

What Jesus is talking about here is that your relatives will not always be happy about your conversion. 

Disagreement is not a personal attack, BTW. Just sayin'.

To our Buddhist friend I would say this: either you love this woman and you want to stay married to her or you don't. If the answer is "yes", then I would suggest that you two start hammering out your boundaries. There are some things Mrs. Parrothead and I disagree on and will ever agree to disagree, but we each stay on our own side of the fence because we love each other more than we love our positions. 

Just sayin'.


----------



## Parrothead

metta said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thanks for your post, that's a good summary of what is really happening. I'll have a look at the link as well.
> 
> We had a discussion yesterday evening. She said she was sorry for hurting me the day before, which is about the only positive thing that came out of this discussion.
> My main problems were that I felt she was placing herself above me and that she was not giving my back the respect I have for her religion.
> Her answers were that I place myself where I want, that's up to me, and that she is indeed intolerant for everything that's not approved by god... She was almost proud to be intolerant!
> 
> I sent her a couple of links with advice for interfaith marriages. She dismissed both of them: one is some humanist crap, the other has been written by a hardcore christian, but she shrugged it off saying there are many people who call themselves christians but who are not!!!
> I also pointed her to a division of christianism called "universal reconciliation" that say that all humans will be saved in the end even the non-believers, but she again dismissed it without looking at it saying again this is humanist crap...
> 
> She obviously spoke to me at length of her religion. She seems quite fixed on those miracle healings, being slain in the spirit, etc. During her seminar, she said a woman behind her has been cured from blindness. Now, hold on to your seat, that's quite amazing. She then told that now, she could see "a bit better"!!!
> :rofl:
> So (a) she was not blind before, just partially blind, and (b) she was not recovered full sight after, just a bit!
> Incredible! The most amazing is that she told me 5 minutes before that there are indeed some fake healings, yet it didn't reach her mind that this story was real laughable! She just select what's coming into her mind.
> BTW, I googled "fake miracle healing" and some very interesting stuff about it!
> 
> She started to talk to me about christians being persecuted. I pointed her to the case of the akha people and chrisitian missionary work there: 20,000 akha women being sterilised against their will, rape, children trafficking for prostitution, etc. She immediately started questioning "why a christian would do that?" etc, and kept coming back to persecution of christians. I found this sort of behaviour not very much balanced! It's quite shocking actually. If she is so much full of love, how come that she didn't thought about these women, before acting defensively?
> 
> At some point, she told me that if it's too difficult for me to support her, I can leave and let her live her life... Although I think she said that in anger.
> 
> She also recognised that she is now a different person, and she can't think about my religion as before (i.e. before she was born again). She also recognised that it is probably disturbing for me, which is right to say the least.
> 
> All in all, there is still communication between us, some form of respect, and some form of love (or is it dependency?), and also some willingness from both sides to carry on. But that discussion led to nowhere really...
> 
> I don't know where to go from there, because although the discussion ended up nicely, I feel even more than before that we really see the world and the life in 2 very different ways.
> 
> Best regards


It sounds like you need to give her some time to mature in the faith a bit. The pentecostal thing has a tendency to lose it's shine over time.


----------



## Parrothead

> - calvinism => everything is pre-determined; god has already chosen those who go to heaven and those who go to hell, you can't do anything about it; intellectually honest calvinists push the reasoning to say that god created sin
> - Martin Luther: killing peasants makes god happy, you can commit 1000 murders per day, that's OK as long as you believe in jesus, etc.
> - mormons (fundamentalists), amish: polygamy
> - universalists: even non-believers will be saved
> - catholics: you must revere the saints as well and do charitable work to be saved, pope is the head
> - pentecostal/evangelical: supernatural healings, slain in the spirit, etc. (rejected by some other christian denomination)
> - etc.


Oh, one more thing, I think you ought to bone up on Christianity a bit, it doesn't sound like you've quite got the hang of it, specifically when it comes to Calvinism, Lutheranism, and well, everything else except universalism. Mormons are not Amish, Amish are the descendants of the Anabaptists and Mormons are an exclusively American cult. 

But that's just me being petty about facts, which are supposed to be stubborn things. It's a problem. 

You might benefit from learning something about your wife's religion, and I don't mean getting it secondhand from atheists and agnostics.


----------



## cb45

Parrothead said:


> Oh, one more thing, I think you ought to bone up on Christianity a bit, it doesn't sound like you've quite got the hang of it, specifically when it comes to Calvinism, Lutheranism, and well, everything else except universalism. Mormons are not Amish, Amish are the descendants of the Anabaptists and Mormons are an exclusively American cult.
> 
> But that's just me being petty about facts, which are supposed to be stubborn things. It's a problem.
> *a good one to have; not petty for TRUTH seekers anyhow*.
> 
> You might benefit from learning something about your wife's religion, and I don't mean getting it secondhand from atheists and agnostics.


 *Amen! I "2nd" that proposal/amendment. but as they say.."good luck".*


as the brits would say: *"hear-here"[my preference, tks!] my good man PHead.*
i confess/admit that i am too lazy and not too persuaded that
my efforts would amount to much in stating clear biblical/moral
teachings either in paraphrase mode, or scriptural quotes to 
convince/convert any heathen/compromised folk who read/post
here at TAM.

but i can surely agree/uphold/uplift/support any brother/sister
in the faith, should they go the extra mile with same said subjects/people.

Bravo monsieur PHead! 

*Ironically, many of the complaintants here hypocritically list the
Christian beliefs/behaviors/woes they "endure"/encounter with their mates, friends, acquaintences, but dont even "see" their own (likewise "faults") as seen just here in their posts! 
{nevermind what they say/display out there in the real world, themselves}

thus, another reason why i dont bother responding, anymore.

that and for the fact i have my doubts about the authenticity of
these "newbie" posters (look at their join dates/post #'s), as well as the known cronies of such n such persons who've already stated their atheist agendas, or compromised faith
banks (caspar milquetoasts?....lol) "overdrawn accts" etc.

i wont clue u in here as to how easy it is to see/read
em here. u just have to stick around long enough i guess
then u'll "catch on to the game."

Still again i dare say "Bravo Phead!"*


----------



## Parrothead

cb45 said:


> *Amen! I "2nd" that proposal/amendment. but as they say.."good luck".*
> 
> 
> as the brits would say: *"hear-here"[my preference, tks!] my good man PHead.*
> i confess/admit that i am too lazy and not too persuaded that
> my efforts would amount to much in stating clear biblical/moral
> teachings either in paraphrase mode, or scriptural quotes to
> convince/convert any heathen/compromised folk who read/post
> here at TAM.
> 
> but i can surely agree/uphold/uplift/support any brother/sister
> in the faith, should they go the extra mile with same said subjects/people.
> 
> Bravo monsieur PHead!
> 
> *Ironically, many of the complaintants here hypocritically list the
> Christian beliefs/behaviors/woes they "endure"/encounter with their mates, friends, acquaintences, but dont even "see" their own (likewise "faults") as seen just here in their posts!
> {nevermind what they say/display out there in the real world, themselves}
> 
> thus, another reason why i dont bother responding, anymore.
> 
> that and for the fact i have my doubts about the authenticity of
> these "newbie" posters (look at their join dates/post #'s), as well as the known cronies of such n such persons who've already stated their atheist agendas, or compromised faith
> banks (caspar milquetoasts?....lol) "overdrawn accts" etc.
> 
> i wont clue u in here as to how easy it is to see/read
> em here. u just have to stick around long enough i guess
> then u'll "catch on to the game."
> 
> Still again i dare say "Bravo Phead!"*


I thought you did very well with post #10 (at least I understood it!).

And I agree with you on the "faults" portion of your post, some days my irony meter explodes off the wall, too, but ours is not to reason why, ours is just to shut up about it or get banned, if you take my meaning. 

Keep the faith, CB, although if we agree with each other too much it will draw attention...


----------



## Parrothead

mommy22 said:


> Your meaning is pretty clear. To be clear on behalf of the forum, no one gets banned for expressing opinions. Only those who break forum guidelines, attack or openly bash forum guidelines, or incite in the posts are banned....
> 
> Feel free to express opinions but do so without being rude.


I wouldn't presume to disagree.


----------



## RandomDude

Well mate, in response to your recent discussion with your wife; she must be made to question but in my opinion you've only won half the fight; Praising God for healing people is harmless, though yes I do wonder if she also accepts how "pagan" spiritual leaders heal people too hehe ("What?! No! Demons must have healed them! Because they are not Christian healers!" :rofl

Still, the best way to deal with this issue is to speak her language; 
Christian language. Not the science language. The science language will go in one ear and out the other without Christian input. Your wife most certainly already knows about science, and you must sow the seeds (as you have done), give her questions, but still encourage her faith enough for her to question on her own accord (more on that below...), her problem is the blindfold that she places around her eyes willingly.

She can't be made to see if you don't talk her language, it will only shut her eyes more and she will go "no! I must not listen! The devil is tricking me! I must have faith!" :rofl: She's stuck living in fear! Heh, if she must have faith, then let her know she should have more faith instead of being so afraid of question!


----------



## RandomDude

Not to mention that Christianity is supposed to be a relationship between one and God, what kind of relationship is it when one is afraid to ask God for revelations? Tell her that. The funny thing is many times when comparing my wife's intepretation of the bible compared to other Christian teachings; they are still quite similar.

Heck, I hope you understand this, in this issue you can't be too blunt, but you must be very precise and careful like performing surgery on her head; have to be specific, and using the right tools for the job.


----------



## metta

RandomDude said:


> She can't be made to see if you don't talk her language, it will only shut her eyes more and she will go "no! I must not listen! The devil is tricking me! I must have faith!" :rofl:


That's exactly it. In fact, she already constructed her defense: "when you turn sincerily to jesus, you get attacked by the devil from all sides". Locks has been planted to prevent rational thinking or taking a bit of distance with one's beliefs...



RandomDude said:


> Heck, I hope you understand this, in this issue you can't be too blunt, but you must be very precise and careful like performing surgery on her head; have to be specific, and using the right tools for the job.


I think I understand. This is a touchy task!

Best regards


----------



## Sameold

One thing that comes to mind here is which particular sect of Christianity is she part of? My ELCA church and my uncle's Missouri Synod church, in spite of both being labeled Lutheran and Christian, have lots of areas of disagreement.
There are sects that believe that Revelation is written in code to the believers of its time. There are those which believe it is a prediction of our times. And probably everything in between. We're all Christians because we believe in Christ, the Son of God, but we really, really, disagree on the details. And, when we disagree, we tend to split. (Which beats, ya know, killing the heretics, right?) Knowing which particular group you're dealing with, down to the details, is going to be useful to you.


----------



## cb45

Sameold said:


> One thing that comes to mind here is which particular sect of Christianity is she part of? My ELCA church and my uncle's Missouri Synod church, in spite of both being labeled Lutheran and Christian, have lots of areas of disagreement.
> There are sects that believe that Revelation is written in code to the believers of its time. There are those which believe it is a prediction of our times. And probably everything in between. We're all Christians because we believe in Christ, the Son of God, but we really, really, disagree on the *details*. And, when we disagree, we tend to split. (Which beats, ya know, killing the heretics, right?) Knowing which particular group you're dealing with, down to the details, is going to be useful to you.


I dont whether to call this quote sad, hilarious, ridiculous, pathetic, or.....eh.....(politically correct version), "off the mark."

WE "are [NOT] all Christians because we believe in Christ" for even the devils "believe" in *Jesus*, and KNOW his authority rules anywhere/anytime HE says so (dont believe me? ask the "pigs")
Christian are those who believe, understand, and OBEY Him when
He gives direction/instructions! And the fruit will show it!

Notice i wrote the name, Jesus; not a minor detail as it is His
name (more accurately, Yeshua). Christ means annointed, and 
is not a name, per se, for Him. (look up the Greek & Hebrew, for it goes even deeper/bigger than that/this)

But if u are a "christian" sameold, why then do u "advise" a buddhist & his interests vs a "sisters" interests which should be same as yours, as pertains to "the way, the truth, & the life"?
(not to mention little details such as conversion, unequal yoking,
etc)

And what do u base yer opinion/advise on? Mettas version (buddhist)? what about W's version of the story? maybe 
she's not as "extreme" as he portrays her. this is true of many
posts here i know, but if u r truly a christian, u sholuld be aware
of these things beforehand.

Now give us 25 hail mary's, and eat some lousy species of fish
this friday as due penance for your transgressions, sameold.
(someold humor; hope yer english/american/westernized enuff
to get i am joking with ya, this part anyhew)

shalom.....


----------



## RandomDude

I'm very sure that what Sameold was trying to say is that even if all christians believe that Jesus is their lord and saviour; many Christians disagree with each other's denomination/sect/beliefs/etc.

If you read his/her previous sentence:


> There are sects that believe that Revelation is written in code to the believers of its time. There are those which believe it is a prediction of our times. And probably everything in between.


In other words; you may have one interpretation of the bible, another may have another, but both may still follow the basic principles of love and forgiveness. As for him giving advice to a buddhist, what's wrong with that?


----------



## cb45

uh, gee, tks for explaining other pts w/in his post, RD; my reading comprehensions working
just fine on this one tho'. how bout yours? (dddduh, i got his pt
on sects, u didnt on the dddddetails, eh?)

Ddddddid u comprehend what i took issue with? its just alittle more complicated than GENERALISTIC advice, as u SIMPLY stated.

Just a little, mind u.

a little.

comprende'? a little?


----------



## metta

Hi Sameold,



Sameold said:


> One thing that comes to mind here is which particular sect of Christianity is she part of? _---snip---_ We're all Christians because we believe in Christ, the Son of God, but we really, really, disagree on the details. And, when we disagree, we tend to split. (Which beats, ya know, killing the heretics, right?) Knowing which particular group you're dealing with, down to the details, is going to be useful to you.


Thanks for the sensible advice.
She does not claim any affiliation, apart from being part of the larger evangelical, born-again movement. So in theory she is quite independant, although I suspect she gets lots of ideas and opinions from other people in her church and other christian friends, and also from TV programmes and books. However, she now tuned down a bit TV shows and christian books to focus more on the bible.
She indeed rejects religion in the sense of a set of man-made rules to follow. I agree with her on questioning religious rules, although I don't call a set of religious rules "religion", it's just a part of it.



cb45 said:


> maybe she's not as "extreme" as he portrays her


A careful examination of my posts will show that I try to be fair to what is really happening in my marriage. Yet no one is perfect, especially in difficult times...


----------



## RandomDude

Metta, many christians these days reject being considered affliated with a sect it seems. The members of the missus' church in particular encourage each other to reject "Pentecostal"/"Protestant" etc titles, but instead encourage their members to use just their Church's name or just "Christian".

It doesn't mean they have no affliation or titles, they just don't seem to like being considered as such. In other words, her "independence" may be an illusion. However, if not, then you indeed have a higher chance of helping her through this phase in her life; as if she truly thinks for herself instead of being sheep, she may wake up eventually during her own spiritual journey.


----------



## Runs like Dog

there's a fine line, sometimes, between fanaticism and piety


----------



## metta

Yesterday, there was another "healing session" at home. She telephoned a friend of hers, apparently ill according to what I overheard.
It's quite interesting to witness how it goes. It's essentially chanting and prayers, and as time passes, it becomes stronger and louder. They enter a sort of trance, praying is now so loud it's impossible to miss it wherever you are in the house. I am quite sure our neighbours benefit from it as well. I was upstairs reading a story to our daughter before going to sleep, I don't know if she was able to hear anything!
What I find interesting is that to me, it looks like a sort of ancient (or should I say pagan? - sorry RandomDude!) ritual. It's just that instead of invoking the forces of nature or some deity, you invoke the holy spirit and jesus... Obviously one is utterly evil while the other is as pure as can be. Interestingly, the form looks rather similar! :rofl:
I also overheard some prayers to those who haven't yet open their eyes to the Truth! :rofl:


----------



## metta

I also forgot about "I pour the Blood of the Lamb on you", etc. :rofl:
:scratchhead:
incredible!


----------



## RandomDude

Speaking in tongues? Heh yes, the missus does get into her rituals with her christian friends from time to time too, it's no problem - unless of course she decides to play "crusader" against me though heh

It's just one aspect of spirituality; different forms of meditation and enlightenment  But unlike "pagans" I guess you're right, fundies have no respect for other forms of spirituality - I wonder if you have overheard your wife and her friends praying for you yourself to convert - it's rather quite amusing to listen. In the end I told her it's her god's will not hers that will win out - her own teachings. That's the best way to deal with it.


----------



## metta

RandomDude said:


> It's just one aspect of spirituality; different forms of meditation and enlightenment  But unlike "pagans" I guess you're right, fundies have no respect for other forms of spirituality - I wonder if you have overheard your wife and her friends praying for you yourself to convert - it's rather quite amusing to listen. In the end I told her it's her god's will not hers that will win out - her own teachings. That's the best way to deal with it.


I did overhear such things. That makes me laugh, but I need to refrain from laughing, it might hurt some people! :rofl:
Interestingly enough, when she speaks to her friends, she says "we should not hate our wifes/husbands, we should hate the devil who is manipulating them"! :rofl:
That's a thin line to me... But generally speaking, I think their line between ultimate good and ultimate evil (and remember there is nothing in between) is very thin indeed, especially when events are justified by supernatural reasons...


----------



## RandomDude

Heh it's hard not to laugh mate, and it's good to be able to find humor in it - it maintains one's sanity! :rofl: The white/black teachings of Christianity never agreed with me really either, considering what I learnt over the years since childhood. But I guess you must remember having faith/prayer isn't all that bad, only when they impose on others. 

As for me, unlike most people, is that over the years I realised there's no real good or evil, only action and consequence. Yet I found it's simply better to be a decent and honorable bloke for a better life, better friends, better respect - and not having to worry about looking over your shoulder half the time.


----------



## RandomDude

I don't even believe in Karma! Which makes some people suspicious of me simply because my moral compass is entirely of my own design, my faith also allows me to believe in anything or nothing at all - it's rather liquidy. Sometimes I also question the real integrity of people who try to be good only out of fear of the unknown! 

I don't pray or wait for miracles either. But in truth, it's actually a good to have someone who is opposite in this regard; one who has "faith" so to speak. I remember the times when I've always been stressed/worried/paranoid, and it's comforting to have someone has a "blindfold" over her eyes to tell you everything is going to be alright. Many times, it turns out she's quite right. One's a realist and the other the optomist heh, or as they say, a pessimist is what an optomist calls; a realist!


----------



## metta

RandomDude said:


> But I guess you must remember having faith/prayer isn't all that bad, only when they impose on others.


Yes, that's true. I suppose a lot depends on the original intentions...



RandomDude said:


> I don't even believe in Karma!





RandomDude said:


> there's ---snip--- only action and consequence.


Well, that's quite close to what's called karma!


----------



## RandomDude

Similar, but karma has moral standards such as "do good" and this will happen, "do evil" and this will happen but for me everything is grey and it's all what you succeed in, get away with, or not get away with lol


----------



## metta

I went to my weekly course yesterday evening. After the course, there are sometimes some informal discussions, and one student asked the monk what we could do when someone is ill. For example, christians can pray, etc.
The monk (that's 13 years he his a monk and spent most of his life in Sri Lanka) answered that they do paritta chanting. Apparently that's quite efficient; he did that a number of times in Sri Lanka with terminally ill people, where doctors said they just have a few days to live. With paritta chanting some of these people got up and recovered very quickly.

After so many years, I am discovering new aspects of buddhism! :smthumbup:

That also reminds me of a book I once read, written by a senior Burmese monk. He also witnessed a Westerner who came to his monastery and who healed himself from a very serious illness through intense meditation.


----------



## RandomDude

Every spiritual path has its own healing methods, including Christianity. Just some are more arrogant then others in proclaiming "Ours work and your work is the stuff of demons!" etc


----------



## Sameold

cb45 said:


> I dont whether to call this quote sad, hilarious, ridiculous, pathetic, or.....eh.....(politically correct version), "off the mark."
> 
> WE "are [NOT] all Christians because we believe in Christ" for even the devils "believe" in *Jesus*, and KNOW his authority rules anywhere/anytime HE says so (dont believe me? ask the "pigs")
> Christian are those who believe, understand, and OBEY Him when
> He gives direction/instructions! And the fruit will show it!
> 
> Notice i wrote the name, Jesus; not a minor detail as it is His
> name (more accurately, Yeshua). Christ means annointed, and
> is not a name, per se, for Him. (look up the Greek & Hebrew, for it goes even deeper/bigger than that/this)
> 
> But if u are a "christian" sameold, why then do u "advise" a buddhist & his interests vs a "sisters" interests which should be same as yours, as pertains to "the way, the truth, & the life"?
> (not to mention little details such as conversion, unequal yoking,
> etc)


Well, I have a heck of a time trying to follow your post given your non-standard capitalization and spellings, however, I haven't been ignoring you exactly--just had a baby last week and haven't been on here. Random Dude has my position correctly, however. As a mother of five, I'm amused by the confusion over my gender.
I'm the child of a Christian and an agnostic. You remember that we're commanded to abide with an unbelieving spouse if they will have us, right? I referenced the verses in an earlier post. That's where this lady is. That's why I'm trying to help.
If Metta understands what his wife believes and why, then he's more likely to stay with her. Assuming they're both decent adults, that's probably what their daughter would prefer, and it's what Christians are commanded to do.
It's fair to say his wife erred in marrying a non-Christian, if in fact she was a Christian at the time of the marriage. Given that, in the US, there are many more female Christians than male, it's not an uncommon error. We all fail to obey His commands now and then, some more than others, and some failures have more consequences in this life than others.
My parents have been married forty years, thirty-two of them with the differences in belief I mentioned earlier. It is possible.


----------



## metta

Hi Sameold,



Sameold said:


> If Metta understands what his wife believes and why, then he's more likely to stay with her. Assuming they're both decent adults, that's probably what their daughter would prefer, and it's what Christians are commanded to do.


That's very sensible indeed.



Sameold said:


> It's fair to say his wife erred in marrying a non-Christian, if in fact she was a Christian at the time of the marriage.


Well, when we met she was christian indeed, and I was already quite engaged in buddhism... In fact, she told me once she wanted to get closer to God, and strangely enough I thought: "Wow, someone who is looking a bit above just material things, I like that!". 
Now I wondered if that was the right thing to think...


----------



## metta

There was a Chinese pastor on godtv talking about self-righteous people, and the fact that they hurt others, they are difficult to get along with and that generally speaking those people need to work on themselves.

I was accidentally watching this and my wife said that what the pastor was saying is true, and she is working on it.
I was amazed! I thought "that's incredible she is saying that!" I told her that I encourage her on that point. Then she quickly added "but it's not regarding religion".
All right, I was back to planet Earth, things are perfectly normal...

That's quite amazing that people like my wife can see a behaviour or mindset as undesirable and to be "worked on", as long as it does not concern religion...
Like if it is not with the same brain the religious thing goes through...
I could almost hear her sub-conscious shouting "don't open your eyes, don't open your eyes!"

But maybe a seed has been planted, as RD would say!


----------



## RandomDude

Heh, it'll take time, it's just a phase it seems - my wife is not the only one to open one's eyes over time.


----------



## chattycathy

Total thread jack metta, sorry.

My H was secular jewish and me secular christian. (Our families came from those religions, we followed the cultural observations but were not religious)

After two decades, my H started cheating on me and became a buddhist though he continues to cheat. I think it props up his cheating cause 'suffering is unavoidable in life'....
and
his mistress grew up hindu and is now on the buddhist path with him

No, they are not truly buddhist. They just read about it and meditate and go on trips to be with buddhists on their retreats.

LOL.

That is all I am saying as I thread jack.

People can change and hopefully your wife and you can transcend this difference somehow!


----------



## metta

Hi Chattycathy,



chattycathy said:


> Total thread jack metta, sorry.
> 
> My H was secular jewish and me secular christian. (Our families came from those religions, we followed the cultural observations but were not religious)
> 
> After two decades, my H started cheating on me and became a buddhist though he continues to cheat. I think it props up his cheating cause 'suffering is unavoidable in life'....
> and
> his mistress grew up hindu and is now on the buddhist path with him
> 
> No, they are not truly buddhist. They just read about it and meditate and go on trips to be with buddhists on their retreats.


One can hardly say (s)he is a buddhist without taking the 5 precepts: no killing, no stealing, no sexual misconduct, no lying, no intoxicant (alcohol, etc)
The third precept especially includes adultery, so you can tell him about that!
Generally speaking, a buddhist will try his/her best to avoid hurting others, and having an affair definitely does not fall into that category!

Good luck!


----------



## cb45

*dharma and greg (or, metta)*



metta said:


> Hi Chattycathy,
> 
> 
> One can hardly say (s)he is a buddhist without taking the 5 precepts: no killing, no stealing, no sexual misconduct, no lying, no intoxicant (alcohol, etc)
> The third precept especially includes adultery, so you can tell him about that!
> Generally speaking, a buddhist will try his/her best to avoid hurting others, and having an affair definitely does not fall into that category!
> Good luck!


....and, "Generally speaking, a buddhist will try his/her best to....." find [the]your light and be [the]a light (lamp) to others. Jesus said, unequivocally, "I am (ehyeh asher ehyeh) the Way, the Truth, the Life; no one can come to the Father except thru Me." [john 14:6]
Yeshua performed many miracles, showed &/or explained many signs and wonders, fulfilled many, many, prophecies re: His coming, living, and dying as The (ulitmate, complete, final) Sacrifice for Mankind; yet, This light (as He calls Himsel & others have come to see/understand) couldnt be contained or restrained by death but instead..."ROSE AGAIN ON THE THIRD DAY, AND SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF [YHVH] YAHVEH." 

To this day, many miracles are still occurring when people call upon His Name. Some make the Media, but most go unheard of (to the masses, that is). Yet most folk, Buddhists included, do not seek these miraculous stories tho' they claim to possess (some) & seek "wisdom." IF this were true, all would come (quickly) to see and know Yeshua Ha' Meshiach, as the Divine
plan for Mankind, ordained before the world ever was.

God who is Love eternal, SUPERCEEDS all "wisdom", not the other way around. Yet, to listen/read others try to make Wisdom out to be God, especially in the summation of all religions being Wisdom, thusly being &/or leading to God, is quite...well....baffling/ridiculously perplexing, to put it "mildly." (which um, includes "little buddha" himself, i must add, per his own writings & philosophical teachings).

to wit: [from buddhanet.net]

"Religions in the world believe that they have shown humans the light and brightness of life. The worldly scholars also assume their own knowledge as the Universal Truth. But in fact, we can find the truth most clearly revealed in the Buddha Dharma, the teaching of the Buddha. Since Sakyamuni Buddha attained enlightenment 2000 years ago, the bright light began to shine into our hearts and illuminate the whole universe. The "Amitabha Buddha", whose name everyone recites nowadays, means "Infinite Brightness". Buddha emits two lights to help sentient beings. They are the light of wisdom and the light of compassion. The light of wisdom shows us what has happened before this life and what will happen after this life. It enhance our understanding of skilful and unskilful actions, and tells us the causes of suffering. It also shows us the way to end suffering so that we will be liberated and happy. If we receive and follow the guidance of this light of wisdom, many mistakes can be avoided, and the significance of life will gradually be uncovered and understood. I have just mentioned that human intelligence is unreliable and man commits many mistakes. There is a saying of Sariputra, "If we are unable to live in the light of wisdom, it is just like a blind person who cannot see the light of the external world and who always lives in darkness."

"The Buddha radiates not only the light of wisdom, but also the light of compassion, for the liberation of all beings. His salvation is proceeding everywhere, every moment. His care for us is far greater than the care we give to our children. If we receive the light of compassion radiated from the Buddha, feelings of peace and serenity will arise while anxiety and annoyance will disappear. This is like a child who walks alone on the street. His fear of being attacked by other naughty children will vanish as soon as his mother appears and he is safely in her company. This is the power of love from the mother. If one who purportedly practises Buddhism still immerses oneself in deep feelings of grief and anguish, this must reflect the fact that the inner self still lacks true faith, and that right understanding of Dharma has not yet been developed. Therefore, such a one has not yet received the light of compassion from the Buddha."

and....

"Therefore, the causes of all problems in the world originate from *ourselves*. If everyone accepts the light from the Buddha, the light can also be transmitted to the others. When one has the right view, one can influence the others. This is how Buddha works for the salvation of the world. May I take this opportunity to wish everyone who listens to today’s talk about the "Dharma as the Light of Deliverance", to accept the light of wisdom and compassion of the Buddha, and to have an infinite bright future." 

I am not one to knock buddha or buddhists as a person or people per se, for their "deeds" in life may indeed be noteworthy of praise, honor, &/or admiration; but i do take issue with anyone who knocks Jesus &/or/by *worshiping* buddha as God, or a Godly messenger, when He (buddha) himself (as far as i can tell/read) never claimed SUCH for himself, nor has the "goods" (e.g. miracles &/or ressurrection power) as final authority which Jesus aptly demonstated and still does to this day!!!! You sir/ma'am, havent looked or choose to ignore/doubt/disbelieve.

Sure christians are human, make mistakes, and are still in the process of changing hypocritical flesh into truthful Spirit. There are also false christians who do HIS cause more harm than good with anti-christ like behaviors/beliefs that taint the name of Jesus in the sight of unbelievers who cant "see" the difference between true & false to begin with, much less a real christian vs a fake one. 
And yes, "we" (christians) too are on a "journey" like many yet, we have God who came as a man in Yeshua, to lead the way into ALL truth and the Life everlasting, in both the literal & figurative senses of "everlasting." 

This includes yer W. Who sees Jesus as above all things, concepts, etc. A true buddhist in my understanding, would see her "journey" as worthy of traveling with, and thus would commit their buddha self, to understanding *fully* by learning of her "way", her religious fervor, by immersing themselves in the "learning process" itself *fully*
to see if there be (any) truth to (her) the matter.

I ask you, no..., i beg of you...learn more about Jesus; "see" for yourself, the majesty, the beauty, the holiness of Him.

The more you focus on Him, in your (best u can muster) search
re: Him, the more u will "see" & understand all things, including 
buddha himself (i.e., buddhas' place/purpose in history etc).

Focus on Jesus; not yer W, not me, not any immature christian who u'd like to pin any mocking blame of their "weaknesses/faults" onto Jesus & Christianity Himself/itself.

No, just Jesus focused period. If u are so "enlightened", (& u think yer W is not then....) methinks u can handle that/it, because u r w/out fear(as yer buddha teaches) and can "keep yourself together" as they say. You'll find Jesus is all things to all people, from God on down to a friend-level of understanding, & helping you. Its amazing, truly amazing.

But if u dont, u'll continue to have contentions with yer W, and in yer life that u could o/wise avoid (not all contentions, i'll grant ya that). And, it'll prove u too, are not who/what u say u are now won't it? You have nothing to lose 'cept for Ignorance.

For Opposites (of sorts, buddhists vs christians) can definitely attract, but the inevitable conflict and dawning sense of the immense challenges of co-existing with one's opposite generally doom such relationships to eventual failure (was what i was trying to say in an earlier post here but flew over yer "seeing" apparently); with most friends and family suggesting that separation/divorce would be best, it's no surprise that couples begin to second-guess their impulsive nuptials. 

It's soon evident that nothing can stand in the way of *true love*.

Ah, but THAT is the heart of the matter here, isnt it? What is your TRUE love buddhists? Love of buddha? methinks not. He didnt seek that now did he? Love of Self? (hmmm, getting warmer now, but no, not "red hot" yet)

Only u can answer that question metta (et al., buddhists/hindus/muslims etc).

But if yer W is a for real, "born again" christian, then...u better understand for her its Yeshua as God, whom is the Love of her life 1st n foremost, *non-negotiable*, even tho' she's not "perfected" yet and is still working with H>S> in working it out in her life (which may or may not include u if need be; thats for H>S> to decide or arrange/deal with). She cannot have two masters, she will love one, & dispise the other. (Right now i'd say yer BOTH conflicted majorly on this pt foremost; word! as in word up mon!)

My $$$ on Jesus. He's way too beautiful & an all knowing Son of a Loving God to pass up/on.:smthumbup:

better get on board, metta et al; and right soon.

this is both a warning & an invitation, same as given to me
and to all who think they "see" &/or "hear" truth, wisdom, love.

[i've not come here to "reason" with you about christianity or 
buddhism either, for reasonings go round n round in 
ceaseless debates/discussions.
I've come to *call u to *"the light" which yer 
buddha was referring to; "the Light who was, who is, and 
who is to come"]

Be NOT afraid/ignorant/stupid/blind/complacent.

selah and shalom


----------



## metta

*Re: dharma and greg (or, metta)*

Dear cb45,

Now this is a tread jack!



cb45 said:


> Jesus said, unequivocally, "I am (ehyeh asher ehyeh) the Way, the Truth, the Life; no one can come to the Father except thru Me."


I heard that a number of times before, you know.



cb45 said:


> Yeshua performed many miracles, showed &/or explained many signs and wonders, fulfilled many, many, prophecies re: His coming, living, and


There are miracles and fullfiled prophecies in other religions.
In buddhism, there is faith healing. People afflicted with serious or terminating illnesses can be cured by paritta chanting performed by the monks. Yet, we do not call that miracle; it's the power of truth, love and faith. 
The Buddha said the only miracle is the miracle of education.
There are many instances of healing through meditation (both physical and psychological illnesses).



cb45 said:


> dying as The (ulitmate, complete, final) Sacrifice for Mankind;


That part of the christian doctrine makes absolutely no sense to me.



cb45 said:


> yet, This light (as He calls Himsel & others have come to see/understand) couldnt be contained or restrained by death but instead..."ROSE AGAIN ON THE THIRD DAY, AND SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF [YHVH] YAHVEH."
> 
> To this day, many miracles are still occurring when people call upon His Name. Some make the Media, but most go unheard of (to the masses, that is). Yet most folk, Buddhists included, do not seek these miraculous stories tho' they claim to possess (some) & seek "wisdom."


Love (and the human mind) has spiritual powers by itself. Just wishing good to someone can make wonderful things come true.



cb45 said:


> IF this were true, all would come (quickly) to see and know Yeshua Ha' Meshiach, as the Divine
> plan for Mankind, ordained before the world ever was.


I have no doubt about that.



cb45 said:


> God who is Love eternal, SUPERCEEDS all "wisdom", not the other way around. Yet, to listen/read others try to make Wisdom out to be God, especially in the summation of all religions being Wisdom, thusly being &/or leading to God, is quite...well....baffling/ridiculously perplexing, to put it "mildly."


I don't understand this statement. I suppose my "receptors" are not good enough...



cb45 said:


> (which um, includes "little buddha" himself, i must add, per his own writings & philosophical teachings).


"little buddha" statement is disrespectful.
I didn't come to you and said "little jesus".



cb45 said:


> to wit: from buddhanet.net
> 
> "Religions in the world believe that they have shown humans the light and brightness of life. The worldly scholars also assume their own knowledge as the Universal Truth. But in fact, we can find the truth most clearly revealed in the Buddha Dharma, the teaching of the Buddha. Since Sakyamuni Buddha attained enlightenment 2000 years ago, the bright light began to shine into our hearts and illuminate the whole universe. The "Amitabha Buddha", whose name everyone recites nowadays, means "Infinite Brightness". Buddha emits two lights to help sentient beings. They are the light of wisdom and the light of compassion. The light of wisdom shows us what has happened before this life and what will happen after this life. It enhance our understanding of skilful and unskilful actions, and tells us the causes of suffering. It also shows us the way to end suffering so that we will be liberated and happy. If we receive and follow the guidance of this light of wisdom, many mistakes can be avoided, and the significance of life will gradually be uncovered and understood. I have just mentioned that human intelligence is unreliable and man commits many mistakes. There is a saying of Sariputra, "If we are unable to live in the light of wisdom, it is just like a blind person who cannot see the light of the external world and who always lives in darkness."
> 
> "The Buddha radiates not only the light of wisdom, but also the light of compassion, for the liberation of all beings. His salvation is proceeding everywhere, every moment. His care for us is far greater than the care we give to our children. If we receive the light of compassion radiated from the Buddha, feelings of peace and serenity will arise while anxiety and annoyance will disappear. This is like a child who walks alone on the street. His fear of being attacked by other naughty children will vanish as soon as his mother appears and he is safely in her company. This is the power of love from the mother. If one who purportedly practises Buddhism still immerses oneself in deep feelings of grief and anguish, this must reflect the fact that the inner self still lacks true faith, and that right understanding of Dharma has not yet been developed. Therefore, such a one has not yet received the light of compassion from the Buddha."
> 
> "Therefore, the causes of all problems in the world originate from *ourselves*. If everyone accepts the light from the Buddha, the light can also be transmitted to the others. When one has the right view, one can influence the others. This is how Buddha works for the salvation of the world
> 
> May I take this opportunity to wish everyone who listens to today’s talk about the "Dharma as the Light of Deliverance", to accept the light of wisdom and compassion of the Buddha, and to have an infinite bright future."


If you want to make statements about buddhism, please learn from it first. If you read my first post, I said I was a theravadin buddhist. I do not reckognise later mahayana additions.



cb45 said:


> I am not one to knock buddha or buddhists as a person or people per se, for their "deeds" in life may indeed be noteworthy of praise, honor, &/or admiration; but i do take issue with anyone who knocks Jesus &/or/by *worshiping* buddha as God, or a Godly messenger,


(a) We don't do that.
(b) Even if we did, you are just showing the same level of intolerance as my wife.
If the fact that other people venerate other gods or have different religions is an issue to you, the suffering in this world is far from being over.



cb45 said:


> when He (buddha) himself (as far as i can tell/read) never claimed SUCH for himself, nor has the "goods" (e.g. miracles &/or ressurrection power) as final authority which Jesus aptly demonstated and still does to this day!!!! You sir/ma'am, havent looked or choose to ignore/doubt/disbelieve.


I did look, but you probably prefer to assert I didn't.



cb45 said:


> Sure christians are human, make mistakes, and are still in the process of changing hypocritical flesh into truthful Spirit. There are also false christians who do HIS cause more harm than good with anti-christ like behaviors/beliefs that taint the name of Jesus in the sight of unbelievers who cant "see" the difference between true & false to begin with, much less a real christian vs a fake one.
> And yes, "we" (christians) too are on a "journey" like many yet, we have God who came as a man in Yeshua, to lead the way into ALL truth and the Life everlasting, in both the literal & figurative senses of "everlasting."
> 
> This includes yer W. Who sees Jesus as above all things, concepts, etc. A true buddhist in my understanding, would see her "journey" as worthy of traveling with, and thus would commit their buddha self, to understanding *fully* by learning of her "way", her religious fervor, by immersing themselves in the "learning process" itself *fully*
> [/SIZE] to see if there be (any) truth to (her) the matter.


Truth is beyond religion. A true statement can be made by a christian, a buddhist, a muslim or an atheist. I have no problem with that.
The same people can also make false statements, again it is not a question of religion.
There is no such things as a "buddha self".
I do reckognise positive changes from her religion. She especially tries to be calmer (and given her bad temper, that's a significant move - which remains quite tentative for now, but fingers crossed!)



cb45 said:


> I ask you, no..., i beg of you...learn more about Jesus; "see" for yourself, the majesty, the beauty, the holiness of Him.
> 
> The more you focus on Him, in your (best u can muster) search
> re: Him, the more u will "see" & understand all things, including
> buddha himself (i.e., buddhas' place/purpose in history etc).
> 
> Focus on Jesus; not yer W, not me, not any immature christian who u'd like to pin any mocking blame of their "weaknesses/faults" onto Jesus & Christianity Himself/itself.No, just Jesus focused period.


Focus on Jesus and you will find Jesus.
Focus on Allah and you will find Allah.
Focus on Krishna and you will find Krishna.
etc.
I beg you not to be annoyed by the fact that other people have different religions, worship different gods or hold different point of views.



cb45 said:


> If u are so "enlightened",


I am not.



cb45 said:


> (& u think yer W is not then....) methinks u can handle that/it, because u r w/out fear(as yer buddha teaches) and can "keep yourself together" as they say.


My receptors are off again, sorry...



cb45 said:


> You'll find Jesus is all things to all people, from God on down to a friend-level of understanding, & helping you. Its amazing, truly amazing.
> 
> But if u dont, u'll continue to have contentions with yer W, and in yer life that u could o/wise avoid (not all contentions, i'll grant ya that).


Maybe yes, maybe no.
The divorce rate amongst US christians is similar to non-christians.



cb45 said:


> And, it'll prove u too, are not who/what u say u are now won't it? You have nothing to lose 'cept for Ignorance.


Pascal's bet is outdated now. A muslim could have said that.



cb45 said:


> For Opposites (of sorts, buddhists vs christians) can definitely attract, but the inevitable conflict and dawning sense of the immense challenges of co-existing with one's opposite generally doom such relationships to eventual failure (was what i was trying to say in an earlier post here but flew over yer "seeing" apparently); with most friends and family suggesting that separation/divorce would be best, it's no surprise that couples begin to second-guess their impulsive nuptials.


Shortly after we met, she tried to convert me and we almost broke up there. That was a good warning sign, but we were young and willing to go over it.
My main problem now has been the understanding from my side of the level of intolerance she reached, especially after becoming a born-again fundamentalist.



cb45 said:


> It's soon evident that nothing can stand in the way of *true love*.


Agreed. However there can be true love without a marriage.



cb45 said:


> Ah, but THAT is the heart of the matter here, isnt it? What is your TRUE love buddhists? Love of buddha? methinks not. He didnt seek that now did he? yet)


Metta is loosely translated into "loving-kindness". It essentially means to wish good to others.
Karuna is compassion: help other people in need, give to charity, etc.
Mudita is sympathetic joy: to rejoice at the success of others.
Upekkha is equanimity: one is not moved by either praise or blame, success or failure, gain or loss, etc.



cb45 said:


> Love of Self? (hmmm, getting warmer now, but no, not "red hot"


That is not true.



cb45 said:


> Only u can answer that question metta (et al., buddhists/hindus/muslims etc).


Agreed. You forgot "christians" in your list.



cb45 said:


> But if yer W is a for real, "born again" christian, then...u better understand for her its Yeshua as God, whom is the Love of her life 1st n foremost, *non-negotiable*, even tho' she's not "perfected" yet and is still working with H>S> in working it out in her life (which may or may not include u if need be; thats for H>S> to decide or arrange/deal with). She cannot have two masters, she will love one, & dispise the other. (Right now i'd say yer BOTH conflicted majorly on this pt foremost; word! as in word up mon!)


All the above looks quite obvious.



cb45 said:


> My $$$ on Jesus. He's way too beautiful & an all knowing Son of a Loving God to pass up/on.:smthumbup:
> 
> better get on board, metta et al; and right soon.


I was waiting for this one!
:rofl:



cb45 said:


> this is both a warning & an invitation, same as given to me
> and to all who think they "see" &/or "hear" truth, wisdom, love.


I probably heard that one a hundred times!



cb45 said:


> [i've not come here to "reason" with you about christianity or
> buddhism either, for reasonings go round n round in
> ceaseless debates/discussions.


Most of your post looks to me like arguments about buddhism and chrisitianity.



cb45 said:


> I've come to *call u to *"the light" which yer
> buddha was referring to; "the Light who was, who is, and
> who is to come"]


Could you please explain to me how you came to know what the Buddha was referring to?



cb45 said:


> Be NOT afraid/ignorant/stupid/blind/complacent.


Your statement is insulting and I leave it to you.



cb45 said:


> selah and shalom


Bye (I suppose that's what it means).


----------



## RandomDude

Way to take a stand metta

One day I hope both of us can find stability in these interreligious issues, and have our wives standing side by side us. And have our children learn from our example. Sounds like a distant dream though doesn't it?


----------



## toolate

metta said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thanks for your post, that's a good summary of what is really happening. I'll have a look at the link as well.
> 
> We had a discussion yesterday evening. She said she was sorry for hurting me the day before, which is about the only positive thing that came out of this discussion.
> My main problems were that I felt she was placing herself above me and that she was not giving my back the respect I have for her religion.
> Her answers were that I place myself where I want, that's up to me, and that she is indeed intolerant for everything that's not approved by god... She was almost proud to be intolerant!
> 
> I sent her a couple of links with advice for interfaith marriages. She dismissed both of them: one is some humanist crap, the other has been written by a hardcore christian, but she shrugged it off saying there are many people who call themselves christians but who are not!!!
> I also pointed her to a division of christianism called "universal reconciliation" that say that all humans will be saved in the end even the non-believers, but she again dismissed it without looking at it saying again this is humanist crap...
> 
> She obviously spoke to me at length of her religion. She seems quite fixed on those miracle healings, being slain in the spirit, etc. During her seminar, she said a woman behind her has been cured from blindness. Now, hold on to your seat, that's quite amazing. She then told that now, she could see "a bit better"!!!
> :rofl:
> So (a) she was not blind before, just partially blind, and (b) she was not recovered full sight after, just a bit!
> Incredible! The most amazing is that she told me 5 minutes before that there are indeed some fake healings, yet it didn't reach her mind that this story was real laughable! She just select what's coming into her mind.
> BTW, I googled "fake miracle healing" and some very interesting stuff about it!
> 
> She started to talk to me about christians being persecuted. I pointed her to the case of the akha people and chrisitian missionary work there: 20,000 akha women being sterilised against their will, rape, children trafficking for prostitution, etc. She immediately started questioning "why a christian would do that?" etc, and kept coming back to persecution of christians. I found this sort of behaviour not very much balanced! It's quite shocking actually. If she is so much full of love, how come that she didn't thought about these women, before acting defensively?
> 
> At some point, she told me that if it's too difficult for me to support her, I can leave and let her live her life... Although I think she said that in anger.
> 
> She also recognised that she is now a different person, and she can't think about my religion as before (i.e. before she was born again). She also recognised that it is probably disturbing for me, which is right to say the least.
> 
> All in all, there is still communication between us, some form of respect, and some form of love (or is it dependency?), and also some willingness from both sides to carry on. But that discussion led to nowhere really...
> 
> I don't know where to go from there, because although the discussion ended up nicely, I feel even more than before that we really see the world and the life in 2 very different ways.
> 
> Best regards


Oh boy, do I know where you are coming from! I am an independent follower of God. Raised with Jewish-Christian parents neither of whom practiced except for holidays. Went thru Judaism for a 10 years bc I never could accept the Jesus story. Then went to church for 4 years, an evangelical one, bc I really liked the sermons and music. I thought I was Christian, but then heard someone call Jesus God and praise Jesus... I almost fainted. Then I read, most of the bible (still working on it)... from that I realized that Jesus was one majorly misunderstood man... but that was part of his role as explained in Revelations. I dont see Revelations the way most Christians do.

Not going into anymore detail about what I have learned, could go on for hours though. My husband was not going to church when we met, and had not gone for years, wasnt close to his family etc... Now he gets so much positive reinforcement from his mom for going that he wont stop and he now tells me Im going to hell bc I dont think Jesus is God and died for my sins so that i can go to heaven. maybe this has something to do with why he wont have sex anymore (thats for another forum).

Knowledge is your best preparation for speaking with a fundamentalist spouse, as it is truly the only way to "catch" them in their word. For example, my husband had a habit of silent treatments, which his father did and his grandfather (who was a Baptist Pastor) did. I calmly questioned it by asking what would Christianity/New testament say about holding grudges/silent treatments? He said i dont know and I said "dont let the sun go down on your anger ... and let satan have his opportunity." There are other scriptures as well, but that got his attention. I also ask about did Jesus say to worship him? Nope... in John he stated he will not accept praise from man. There are many indirect references as well. 

As for your situation... intolerance... It was not Jesus who said not to commune with other types... that was in the writings of Paul and John (not the gospel, but the books after). Revelations says we are to let others continue on their paths, its not for us to interfere or to judge. Jesus said "Do not judge so that you will not be judged." Matthew 7:1

Anyway, if you arent going to divorce and she is continually arrogant... you will find much about anti-arrogance in the bible... heck proverbs was written for the arrogant "fool" (vs the wise). Arrogance could even be construed as exalting oneself, a thing which God detests... its akin to idolotry which is covered in the first several commandments Exodus 20. The whole bible is your best source... but you can always google search a catch phrase and put "bible scripture about arrogance" in and see what comes up...

Or simply say, sorry you feel that way.


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## cb45

*its possible...but then, as anti-christs, how'd u know?*

ah...the neverending argument(s) of beamers pointing
out the specks and vice versa.

suffice it to say, we all will get what we deserve (have sown) in our lives. period.

u can come here and bash chrisitians/christianity/Jesus all u want but, in the end....there can only be one left standing in 
the presence of a Most Holy, Most Righteous God; and that ONE is Jesus. period.

u are either "in Him and He in you" or u are not. period.

i pray & i know you'll EAT yer words, yer attitudes, one day
soon, or one day many yrs (too long) from now (you'll see).

i declare this not in contempt per se, nor in judgement, for that
is for God (notice the capitalization pls; = respect; which means u display disrespect even for HIM...how foolish can u be?) to render. for indeed, it is possible, i stress possible, that
the lake of fire as its known can be a never ending continual classroom in which WE all shall learn what we need to move on
to God's glory for us to participate in, whatever/however HE deems that participation to be; be it reincarnation, or a 900 year continuance of yer miserable lives to finally/fully learn. (but that is another long discussion in another thread)

i.e., u will lose yer mates, your homes, your health, whatever it takes for God to get thru to you re: Yeshua Ha'Meshiach, IF
God so wills it/allows it to be in this life, next one, as a person, as an animal or as a who knows what as there's NO LIMITS to what God can do (only u, delaying? the inevitable)

OR...yer wives, lives, locales will overwhelm u with their Love walk/growth/developments that, u will be overcome with what
they've (& God) been trying to tell/show/teach u all along with 
their continued service & forebearance of you and yer sarcastic heathen stubborness as reflected here & in life, no doubt. 

Sure, they'll have some growing to do as well but, all the more
for you to "marvel" at (apparently incapable now but alas...future tense here) when u see/perceive their "developments" before yer very "eyes".

u can only "hide" for so long & commiserate with "fools" for so
long till even YOUR harvest time arrives, and there'll be no one
to prop u up including buddhas gold statue.

and yes, yer spirits "KNOW this to be coming" (tks metta for the reminder/insight/quote...) sooner for some than others. i "see" yer hidden, trembling selves already cowering before Jesus.

Honor the Father and kiss the Son, all ye who are faithful. for Jeus is still in Love mode, and accepting all who are accepting of Him. So is our ABBA, who glorified Him and HIMSELF with Jesus' ministry & testimony while here on earth & in His ascension. there is still "time" left for you, but the hr glass is running short.

He who has the Son, has the Father also.....

selah.


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## metta

Dear toolate,



toolate said:


> Knowledge is your best preparation for speaking with a fundamentalist spouse


Yes, I realised that recently. Although I have no interest into digging into Christian doctrines, I'll do it to understand what to respond...

Thank you for your post.


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## metta

*Re: its possible...but then, as anti-christs, how'd u know?*

Well, c45...

I feel this post is full of venom and hatred from your own self. I must have hurt it somehow...

I have nothing to comment on, I'll just extract what I think is the most relevant side of your personality.


cb45 said:


> i pray & i know you'll EAT yer words, yer attitudes


That says it all... and makes me sad 

Best regards anyway


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## RandomDude

Metta, unfortunately if you want to deal with your wife, you have to deal with christian doctrine. Use cb45 as practise.


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## metta

RandomDude said:


> Metta, unfortunately if you want to deal with your wife, you have to deal with christian doctrine. Use cb45 as practise.


Hi RD,

I will be sponsoring a buddhist service in a couple weeks for my brother who unfortunately died about 5 weeks ago in a car accident... I told her about that about 4 days ago and that I wanted our daughter to come with me. That was initially a problem to her...

We had another conversation a couple of days ago. I actually bought and played a DVD on the life of the Buddha (from a historical/archeological point of view). She was quite interested!
Later in the evening, we talked about our respective religions in a peaceful way. I think she is calming down a bit (and me too!)

She told me she would like to come with me to help me out (I am supposed to bring and serve some refreshements to the people who attend the service), but she can't.
I challenged her on that point, saying that she can just sit without participating; in that case, she is not condoning the ceremony. If she still have problems, this means she is governed by fear. She said it's not fear and went into some convoluted explanations which can be summarized like this: it's a bit like she is taking the risk of creating a breach in her mind and this might give satan an opportunity... 
Well, that sounds like fear to me, but anyway... It might be that she would take the risk of opening up her mind a bit... Everything depends on how one looks at things.
At least, buddhists are not considered as evil satanic idolatric worshippers! :rofl:

Yesterday, she apparently thought about it and told me that she might come with me to help me out! She still said that if she comes (which is far from certain), she will have to say to everyone that she is christian! 
:rofl: 
Anyway... how to embarass people with your own self-created problems! 

We are progressing in the right direction, apparently!


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## metta

A bit off-topic from the OP, but my wife told me yesterday evening that she had an affair 3 years ago with a complete stranger...
I was completely shocked as that would have been the last thing I would have expected from her. If there was one thing where I trusted her 100%, that was fidelity. Eventually, she decided to reveal her secret instead of living a lie.
She was very contrived and extremely sorry. She was not even able to speak initially, she had to text me the news. I forgave her, but told her that the 2nd time I will not be able to forgive. She said how stupid she had been and that she will never do such a thing again, that she is so ashamed, etc. I have to admit she is less subject to sensual desires now that she is a born-again christian (or more exactly, these have been replaced by "higher" desires).

I am still a bit stunned, but that will go in a few days... It's a bit like a movie, you think these are the things that happen only to other people, and when it happens to you, you feel it's not real.
Now I understand certain of her strange behaviours after she came back! (it happened abroad in her home country while she was on a long-term trip for business).


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## lamaga

"I have to admit she is less subject to sensual desires now that she is a born-again christian (or more exactly, these have been replaced by "higher" desires)."

Oh, Metta. You're fooling yourself.

Good luck with getting over the affair, but please don't let her use her church as some kind of excuse/get-out-of-jail free card.


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## RandomDude

Whao... wait... so she cheated, and she's STILL a fundamentalist?! =O


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## metta

Hi RD,

Long time no see!



RandomDude said:


> Whao... wait... so she cheated, and she's STILL a fundamentalist?! =O


No, she cheated about 2 years before turning fundamentalist. So she was not a born-again at the time she cheated.

Anyway, that was a one-time stand, and apparently she deeply regret it. I understand now why her libido was essentially inexistent after she same back from that trip. 

At that time, I put that on a dispute we had where she was asking me to do things sexually that I can't do. It was a very heated dispute, and I finally convinced her that she was asking too much by pointing her to certain websites dealing with sexuality. It is that dispute that triggered in her the willingness to have an affair (even if she was wrong as she later admitted).

Frankly, the main reason I stay with her is for our daughter. The same applies to her turning a fundie, I would have left her if it was not for our daughter.


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## RandomDude

It's difficult but that would be a deal-breaker for me, especially while she continues to give you grief by her fundamentalist beliefs =/

As for your daughter, some say it's not always to stick together just for the kids


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## metta

RandomDude said:


> As for your daughter, some say it's not always to stick together just for the kids


Yes, I am starting to considering that.

2 days ago we were invited to a wedding. When going back home, I told her that I am ready to trust her again and start afresh because I don't want to live a life where I would constantly check her emails, phone log, etc. (as she suggested to me after revealing her affair). When I said that, she was happy and emotional. Then I made it very clear that if she does it again that will be the end of our marriage, she turned cold immediately and stopped saying anything.

Yesterday, more drama erupted. She went to church with our daughter and a "brother in Christ" that she invited to our home for the week-end. Just after she left, I wanted, for the first time, to make a point about what benefits buddhism can bring to someone. I sent her a text message, here is the content of our conversation:

Me: Sweetheart, I probably would not have been able to take the news of your infidelity so serenly if I was not a bit advanced in buddhism. Somewhere, you should be grateful for this religion, with it maybe our marriage would not be in existence today. Kiss.

Her: Sweetheart, I am not agaist buddhism or its principles. As you say yourself, buddhism asks you to investigate and my prayer for you is to God to reveal himself to you and that you understand that there is a God who exists. I love you.

Me: That was my mini-part of witnessing (which I said in exceptional circumstances and because you are my wife), but to acknowledge that there is some truth in what I said is apparently too difficult. End of witnessing. Sorry to have disturbed you. Kiss.​
When she came back from church (about 7 hours later! but I am used to that now), she told me privately that she needs to take a week off!!! She wants to stay in a hotel away from me and our daughter (her own words). Then she started again to preach me, "if you are not sure there is a god or not, you should leave our daughter because if there is a god.." blah blah blah. I stopped her and told her that we had this conservation a number of times before and I don't see the point of having it again.

In the evening, she wanted to talk again. She said I should read again the messages I sent to her and that I should show them to someone independent to really understand what I said. I said that I will and went to sleep. Then she came back, saying that she is sorry for all the pain she is doing to me, she started crying, saying sorry at least 20 times. She said the problem is with her. I said it's OK, hold her in my arms, etc. She cried for about an hour. After that we went to sleep.

Also, I forgot to mention. While in church, our 7 years old daughter (who is often "borrowing" my wife's iphone) sent me a text message where she said that she would like to come with me to the place where I go to every Sunday (that was a total surprise for me as I brought her once and she didn't like it, so I was not bringing her anymore).
I think this is what really triggered the hysterical reactions from my wife. She can't contemplate our daughter being anything else but a fundamentalist christian. She said it quite plainly when she said she wanted a week off after coming back from church: she said that I can bring her there if I want because I am her father, she knows that god will preserve her, and if she can't bear it she will leave both our daughter and myself to "our things".

Anyway, I would be grateful if some people could comment on the messages we exchanged (see above). I know I have not written them in a nice way, but I think her reaction was out of proportion. Still, I would be very grateful to have some external point of views to help me see more clearly.

Many thanks for your help!


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## metta

Hi everyone,

I would be really grateful if some people could give me some comments on my previous post. That would help me tremendously.

Thanks a lot for your help!


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## RandomDude

It sounds like routine BS to me really, lovey dovey here, lovey dovey there, but the main issues, heh... seems to be still a problem. I'm not so sure how I can help either than what I've posted already, though.

Personally in your shoes right now, with her refusing to become more open-minded, and having already cheated on you, not making any attempts to regain your trust or respect, I would walk. But I am rather cold-blooded in that way, that's all


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## metta

Hi RD,



RandomDude said:


> It sounds like routine BS to me really, lovey dovey here, lovey dovey there, but the main issues, heh... seems to be still a problem. I'm not so sure how I can help either than what I've posted already, though.
> 
> Personally in your shoes right now, with her refusing to become more open-minded, and having already cheated on you, not making any attempts to regain your trust or respect, I would walk. But I am rather cold-blooded in that way, that's all


Thanks for your reply!
What do you think of the text messages we exchanged? That was apparently a big deal to her...


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## lamaga

Metta, I didn't comment on the text messages before because I was so outraged and angry on your behalf.

She is not respecting your beliefs, period. "I'm praying that you'll find [my] God?" Really? So basically what she is saying is that your buddhism and the path that you are on is crap, she thinks it's crap and she doesn't mind telling you that it's crap, as long as she folds that message into the papspeak that passes for communication among fundamentalist Christians.

Sorry. I don't think you should put up with it (although I realize that stance is very non-buddhist  )

Honestly? I think she is using her so-called faith as a tool to avoid intimacy, to avoid a real relationship, and to all the while avoid taking responsibility -- it's not that she's not a good wife, it's just that she's so hurt that you're not a Christian.

BLECCH. Real Christians do not act this way. And you are being played. Sorry to be so blunt, but you did ask.


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## metta

Dear Lamaga,



lamaga said:


> She is not respecting your beliefs, period.


Indeed. She is intolerant, and she proudly says that she is intolerant!



lamaga said:


> "I'm praying that you'll find [my] God?" Really? So basically what she is saying is that your buddhism and the path that you are on is crap, she thinks it's crap and she doesn't mind telling you that it's crap, as long as she folds that message into the papspeak that passes for communication among fundamentalist Christians.


Thank you! You just made clear exactly what happened in my mind when I read it!



lamaga said:


> Sorry. I don't think you should put up with it (although I realize that stance is very non-buddhist  )


Well, not necessarily. There is no point in suffering for nothing. Buddhism is the "middle path", you have to avoid extremes. Also, buddhism teaches that nothing is permanent... 



lamaga said:


> Honestly? I think she is using her so-called faith as a tool to avoid intimacy, to avoid a real relationship, and to all the while avoid taking responsibility -- it's not that she's not a good wife, it's just that she's so hurt that you're not a Christian.


Yes, she is "blinded by faith"! Truly, she is just not able to see, hear or think outside the little box called "fundamentalism" she built around herself. The big problem is that it is affecting people around her.



lamaga said:


> BLECCH. Real Christians do not act this way.


I am not sure, really. I just googled "divorce rate in born again", and found a study by The Barna Group (an evangelical christian organisation BTW), which found that the divorce rate is higher in fundamentalist christians (24% for baptists and 34% for non-denominational) than in atheists/agnostics (21%).



lamaga said:


> And you are being played. Sorry to be so blunt, but you did ask.


Don't worry! Be blunt! It really helps me to have external and frank point of views!
I have to admit I think you are quite right. I don't even know if she realises it, though...


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## lamaga

Well, at a certain point, it doesn't matter if she realizes it or not. You are in charge of your own life and your own destiny.

I do wish you well. My H is buddhist, I am Jewish, and we get along just fine. PM me anytime, as I find these issues interesting.


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## RandomDude

Lamaga speaks the truth, she doesn't accept your ways but justifies her intolerance based on her faith. My wife went through the same thing but even though you can prod her, only she can change her beliefs. The missus came to her enlightenment outside of the church though, she spent more time meditating on the word herself and her own relationship with christ then playing religious at church.

The fundamentalist church unfortunately, is a problem, and will not enable her to see the light. If she comes up with an individualistic belief, they'll shut it down, tell her that her views are wrong, that she needs to spend more time at church, that she's falling away from god's path, etc etc.

In her mind she is hurt, because she feels that your conversion would be the best thing in your marriage, and in the same way she has shut out your faith, now she feels how its like to have her own faith shut out by you.

Even though my wife and I went through the same thing, after reading your story, it's starting to look like a completely different scenario now. My wife has very strong personal qualities, a bit stubborn but she's an individualistic mind at core; she is capable of her own decisions even if confronted with the world.

I don't know your wife but it seems like she lacks the quality that would allow her to continue her faith independently from the fundamentalist teachings and learn to become tolerant and to find her own personal relationship with christ instead of looking to men for god. Add that to the fact that she cheated on you already yet is not making steps to heal the marriage...

Well, it doesn't look promising... I'm sorry =/


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## metta

Hi RD,



RandomDude said:


> Lamaga speaks the truth, she doesn't accept your ways but justifies her intolerance based on her faith. My wife went through the same thing but even though you can prod her, only she can change her beliefs. The missus came to her enlightenment outside of the church though, she spent more time meditating on the word herself and her own relationship with christ then playing religious at church.


Well, she does spend a certain amount of time reading the bible on her own. She considers herself "unaffiliated" (i.e. the category of evangelical christians with 34% divorce rate!)
Yet she spends a lot of time watching GodTV etc. and listening to audio talks by leading televangelists... And I tend to think that she is not very discriminate in what she gets from those...



RandomDude said:


> The fundamentalist church unfortunately, is a problem, and will not enable her to see the light. If she comes up with an individualistic belief, they'll shut it down, tell her that her views are wrong, that she needs to spend more time at church, that she's falling away from god's path, etc etc.


Yes, I know! The truth is that they all live in fear.



RandomDude said:


> In her mind she is hurt, because she feels that your conversion would be the best thing in your marriage, and in the same way she has shut out your faith, now she feels how its like to have her own faith shut out by you.


Too bad! 



RandomDude said:


> Even though my wife and I went through the same thing, after reading your story, it's starting to look like a completely different scenario now. My wife has very strong personal qualities, a bit stubborn but she's an individualistic mind at core; she is capable of her own decisions even if confronted with the world.
> 
> I don't know your wife but it seems like she lacks the quality that would allow her to continue her faith independently from the fundamentalist teachings and learn to become tolerant and to find her own personal relationship with christ instead of looking to men for god. Add that to the fact that she cheated on you already yet is not making steps to heal the marriage...
> 
> Well, it doesn't look promising... I'm sorry =/


Well, we'll see how it goes.

Yesterday evening, I told her I have been shocked when she said she would "leave us to our ways" if our daughter would follow Buddhism. She said I misunderstood her, she would not leave the house, but simply let do our things... This is quite possibly because although we have the same mother tongue, in her country they tend to use different expressions.
Yet, that still says that she will give up somehow on our daughter if she follows Buddhism. I don't know to what extent...

Thank you for your support!


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## jahu77

I agree with RandomDude when he says:

"I don't know your wife but it seems like she lacks the quality that would allow her to continue her faith independently from the fundamentalist teachings and learn to become tolerant and to find her own personal relationship with Christ instead of looking to men for god."

Much of the stuff on God TV is dubious at best. Ever seen Todd Bentley? You can be sure that man does not know God.

I was once an avid follower of many eastern philosophies, but had such a transforming encounter with the Living God , I now know without any shadow of doubt, that Jesus Christ truly is The Way, The Truth and The Life. No man can come to God but Through Him. 

But beware of pseudo-Christian things like much on God TV.

With Love


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## WillIMake36?

SimplyAmorous said:


> Regardless of what religion we are talking about, when one starts exhibiting the actions & speech of a hard core Fundamentalist, your reasoning with them pretty near STOPS - unless you agree with them, of coarse.
> 
> They have taken on a NEW set of RULES to follow to obey their GOD & be His chosen follower. A new foundation has been laid and beings they are taught GOD is #1, they will feel as though they are not honoring HIM to agree with anyone outside of their beliefs, this is SIN to them, worthy of death many times.
> 
> 
> You are NOW dealing with 2 separate mindsets ...and you will not see eye to eye unless YOU agree with them, admit you are lost and only their version of God can save you from yourself. As you can see, and are experiencing, this creates quite the Marraige dilemma. Love , Compassion, Tolerance and Understranding NOW take a back seat to "*Doctrine *" and "*Creeds*" of a specified belief.
> 
> It suddenly becomes .....*US against THEM*... *Black vs White*.... *Satan vs God*....*Flesh vs Spirit*..... *Lost vs saved*.... *faith vs reason *..... *Heaven vs Hell*.... *Holy Book vs heretical book*..... *Truth vs falsehood*.... you get the drift.
> 
> 
> Why Fundamentalism is Wrong
> 
> .


:iagree: LOVE this post. so, so true.


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## 2ntnuf

You know, these are all very basic things which are being discussed. I remember making the same mistake but within the same religion. My first wife wasn't as "religious" as I thought I was. Even though we attended the same church, we still had disagreements about what we believed. So much lack of communication with open and honest discussion. I think I got married to her because the sex was so good. Too bad that wasn't what held us together. There were too many other differences which I did not even consider. I was too young and horny.


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