# Unhappy - unsure of direction



## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm not too sure what I'm asking, or what problem I'm trying to solve, other than I'm not happy with the position I'm in.

So, a little about myself. British expat living in the USA, married 6 years (wife is from here) - no kids. Of the two of us, I had the quieter life before we met - she has a much more adventurous/exploratory past. There's also an age gap - I'm 30, she's 35.

Historically I've always been the breadwinner - and pretty good at it, much further up the career tree than most at my age in the industry I'm in, but I've been careful not to let it eat my home life too much.

Over time our intimacy has really dropped off - when dating things were great, sex 1-2 times a week, but now I'm honestly lucky if its 1x a month - and initiating is utterly useless, as its guaranteed rejection. Only about 2 days before her period does she suddenly show any interest - like clockwork, and then thats it for another month.

In her past she was very sexual, experimental - nothing of that now, and utterly uninterested when I've tried to spice life up in that direction. When we do have it - sex is good - for her. She is apparently very satisfied but there is no foreplay, no teasing, its purely a 'rolls over in bed and grabs' type of affair. She's satisfied each time - I'm left with a feeling I better enjoy as that's it for another month. Hell, oral sex, which when we were dating was a regular thing, has not been on the horizon since July 2007 (from her to me - the opposite occurs often).
Physical affection of any kind is difficult - even snuggling while sleeping purely for the feeling of closeness is shrugged out of, as is a hug at any time etc...

She claims to be happy, and in our discussions about her low intimacy/drive the line tends to be that she's 'working on it' - but nothing ever changes. 

In order to make life less stressful for her, I recently took on a new position, allowing her to leave her work (which she hated) and work on her writing and being a housewife (which she's always stated wanting to be). No change in things, just a general lack of effort on her part in all ways - doesn't surprise me anymore when I come home from work and she's still in Pajamas from the morning.

I try to do what I can - dress in ways I know she likes, provide, listen, clean up and do my share - in general try to be a good partner. But I dont feel like one anymore, I feel like a roommate, or her brother. She knows very well the things that I find attractive - yet never ever implements any of them - in contrast to what I try to do.

I know she has body issues - I love her regardless and make that very clear - but I know her weight bothers her. On the flip side of that, she never makes any attempt to change that, other than complaining about it. 
I cant remember the last argument we had that she did not directly initiate, I'm not sure why but that always seems to be the way round that happens with her. 

I'm just not sure what to do anymore really. We briefly went to MC a couple of years ago - a few interesting things came out of that, and a change for a week or two but it honestly feels like its too much effort for her, and that she is utterly comfortable with the status quo. 

When the two of us have discussed this in the past, her general approach is to firstly take the 'deal with it' approach, then back up her position using articles online - usually referencing people in their 40s complete with children etc! We have *none* of these distractions or stresses, even less so now she's not working.


Like I said, I'm not sure what I'm asking or what I'm looking for - I'm lost at this point. I love her. I just don't know if I can be in this for the rest of my life with things the way they are.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Sometimes I’ve a really sneaky and suspicious mind. I reckon due to the sex pattern she just wants a baby with you. Once she has that baby I reckon she’ll push for separation and divorce and you’ll be left paying the bill every month.

You might want to play with the idea for a while that you are just her meal ticket.


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## Determinedtosuceed (Aug 24, 2011)

Do you think your wife is depressed? What if you suggested things that would help her feel better about herself - going for walks somewhere fun, riding bikes, hiking, exploring, etc? If you feel like the effort you are making is 'really an effort' - its going to come across as such and not work out well.. sincerity is key! Its tough to look at the 'good' things when in such a rut tho.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Brit,

It never ceases to amaze me how many guys will "make life easier" and/or "accede" to the wishes of their partner while their partner sexually starves them.

Why did you think it would be ok to let her "head home" instead of work without some sort of discussion about your physical intimacy?


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

I can rule out the baby side at least - she's stated firmly and clearly she does not want children.
I do suspect depression at least in part of this, as I've suggested similar - outdoor activites, fun active things to do - but it seems that its all too much effort for her to actually do. 

We did talk about her hormones - her mother has terrible problems there, resulting in very erratic behaviour, but she claims her Dr tested that and things were within boundaries. (Although, to be honest - I'm not sure I buy that, given she sees the entire thing as a non-issue I'd be very suprised she actually brought it up to a Dr)

As for discussing before her staying at-home, we did, and she believed a lot of her inactivity in general, and intimacy in particular was due to her being overly stressed and tired from work. 

Currently reading 'No More Mr Nice Guy' - and i see a lot of myself in the first chapter


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You may wish to check out these links as well:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Many have been on the path you're on.

Happy endings can - and do - occur.

No guarantees, except that you can become a better man.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

ExpatBrit said:


> We did talk about her hormones - her mother has terrible problems there, resulting in very erratic behaviour, but she claims her Dr tested that and things were within boundaries. (Although, to be honest - I'm not sure I buy that, given she sees the entire thing as a non-issue I'd be very suprised she actually brought it up to a Dr)


Many women start to encounter the erratic hormonal swings of peri-menopause (pre-menopause) in their thirties. If her mother had issues like this, it puts your wife at greater risk to having the same issues.

Unfortunately, hormonal testing can be quite ineffective. The normal ranges are very broad and it depends on a woman's cycle. One month a woman's cycle can be totally normal, and the next it can be totally messed up in peri-menopause.

Women can help these swings to some degree by working on eating correctly, taking proper vitamins, getting adequate exercise and rest. Sometimes there can be drugs that can help - low dose anti-depressants or low dose birth control pills. Perimenopause symptoms and understanding signs of hormonal change

I hope your wife will do some research in this area and consider making some lifestyle modifications that could be beneficial to her.



ExpatBrit said:


> Currently reading 'No More Mr Nice Guy' - and i see a lot of myself in the first chapter


:smthumbup: Keep digging in to it!


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Many women start to encounter the erratic hormonal swings of peri-menopause (pre-menopause) in their thirties. If her mother had issues like this, it puts your wife at greater risk to having the same issues.
> 
> Unfortunately, hormonal testing can be quite ineffective. The normal ranges are very broad and it depends on a woman's cycle. One month a woman's cycle can be totally normal, and the next it can be totally messed up in peri-menopause.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the words of encouragement - really appreciate it! 
My worry is that, at least at the moment, it seems like she really could not care less about changing things. Shes *very* happy with the status quo. From her friends who knew her before I met her - she was very different then.

We breifly looked at the low-dose birth control angle - although oddly she insists birth control pills will not work in her due to body chemistry (?? always been baffled/disbelieving of this to be honest - I've a decent background in biology, but she utterly insists. (we use an IUD instead))


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

Last we talked about this she expressed frustration that I don't often initiate - I don't often initiate (or rather ever anymore) due to a 100% shoot-down rate! Her take is rejection shouldn't make me feel bad.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ExpatBrit said:


> Last we talked about this she expressed frustration that I don't often initiate - I don't often initiate (or rather ever anymore) due to a 100% shoot-down rate! Her take is rejection shouldn't make me feel bad.


That - my friend - is a fitness test.

How often have you "taken her"?

Physical intimacy isn't about timidly hoping and asking for permission. It's about making a bold move and forcing her to respond to it.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

In reading these boards I am seeing quite a bit where a man is just way too nice in a relationship and the woman lacking empathy almost entirely. I think the problem is the fact that you make it all about her for so long she sees her feelings as the only valid ones. Kinda like a spoiled little kid. 
After making a few changes and drilling the point I think my wife is actually begining to scratch the surface of understanding. Over the last 2 weeks she has actually asked how my day has gone twice. This may seem verry small and petty but that is the first 2 times in the last 4 years she has done so unprompted. It is not easy, but you need to drive the point home that how you feel is valid and this is what she is doing to you.


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

Conrad said:


> That - my friend - is a fitness test.
> 
> How often have you "taken her"?
> 
> Physical intimacy isn't about timidly hoping and asking for permission. It's about making a bold move and forcing her to respond to it.


I'm not sure I follow to be honest? Forcing her to respond is going to just get a response with No/Not Now/I'm Tired/Get Off.
I can think of a literal handful of occasions where I've initiated successfully - and thats always the 'wake up on a sunday AM' type thing, not the 'throw over the kitchen table' deal.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ExpatBrit said:


> I'm not sure I follow to be honest? Forcing her to respond is going to just get a response with No/Not Now/I'm Tired/Get Off.
> I can think of a literal handful of occasions where I've initiated successfully - and thats always the 'wake up on a sunday AM' type thing, not the 'throw over the kitchen table' deal.


Have you read the marriedmansexlife blog?

Have you tried the 10 second kiss?

There are ways to let her know exactly what you want.


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Have you read the marriedmansexlife blog?
> 
> Have you tried the 10 second kiss?
> 
> There are ways to let her know exactly what you want.


Reading now - I'll try the 10 second kiss and see how she responds - if at all.

I admit some skepticism as to all the 'take her' type material I've been reading in this forum - I just cant see the same approach working with my wife, rather than just pissing her off. I'm willing to try and be proven wrong however!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Don't put the cart in front of the horse.

Pass a few fitness tests with humor and masculine mettle. You'll see the opportune moment, but you must prepare for it.



ExpatBrit said:


> Reading now - I'll try the 10 second kiss and see how she responds - if at all.
> 
> I admit some skepticism as to all the 'take her' type material I've been reading in this forum - I just cant see the same approach working with my wife, rather than just pissing her off. I'm willing to try and be proven wrong however!


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

In that case - how to pass the so called 'fitness tests'

If being shot down and feeling hurt when doing so is a test - whats the pass? not approaching? brushing it off?

Come to think of it - all the times she's sat on the couch and I'm busy doing something - the 'can you get me a soda' type requests (she's closer to the kitchen, I'm busy, and frankly the walk wouldn't hurt her!) are an aspect of this - and if so - how do I change the dynamic?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

"I was just thinking how sexy your legs are, and I'm imagining them walking to the refrigerator to get the soda while I watch. Make my day."

You get the idea?

Banter, edge, very sexy.



ExpatBrit said:


> In that case - how to pass the so called 'fitness tests'
> 
> If being shot down and feeling hurt when doing so is a test - whats the pass? not approaching? brushing it off?
> 
> Come to think of it - all the times she's sat on the couch and I'm busy doing something - the 'can you get me a soda' type requests (she's closer to the kitchen, I'm busy, and frankly the walk wouldn't hurt her!) are an aspect of this - and if so - how do I change the dynamic?


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm not sure I'm getting the direction really - not trying to be obtuse - but something like that is purely going to get her really pissed off


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

ExpatBrit said:


> I'm not sure I'm getting the direction really - not trying to be obtuse - but something like that is purely going to get her really pissed off


Ha ha! Yah - I think you have to tailor your responses somewhat to your wife. Every woman is different. I would think that the key is for you to just always remain calm, confident, cool, level-headed, use humor if possible. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html

In regards to her initiation comment, do you try and do subtle, flirty things throughout the day to her to keep the pump 'primed'? When you would try to initiate, how did you go about it? Maybe look at how you were approaching her and how you could make changes there.

Does your wife realize that you are having a problem? Have you discussed it with her? Does she brush it off? Is she willing to work with you?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ExpatBrit said:


> I'm not sure I'm getting the direction really - not trying to be obtuse - but something like that is purely going to get her really pissed off


Sounds like you are afraid of her.

That's also not all that uncommon.

By "afraid", I mean "afraid" of her emotional responses.


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Sounds like you are afraid of her.
> 
> That's also not all that uncommon.
> 
> By "afraid", I mean "afraid" of her emotional responses.


I quite possibly am - come to think of it, I dont exactly win any arguments, so very probably seek to avoid conflict with her. When she's emotional she can be frankly someone I dont want to be with - very rude, nasty and, I find myself often thinking - a polar opposite to the way I treat her.


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Ha ha! Yah - I think you have to tailor your responses somewhat to your wife. Every woman is different. I would think that the key is for you to just always remain calm, confident, cool, level-headed, use humor if possible. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html
> 
> In regards to her initiation comment, do you try and do subtle, flirty things throughout the day to her to keep the pump 'primed'? When you would try to initiate, how did you go about it? Maybe look at how you were approaching her and how you could make changes there.
> 
> Does your wife realize that you are having a problem? Have you discussed it with her? Does she brush it off? Is she willing to work with you?


Its been long enough that I don't really recall I'm ashamed to say - I know I wasn't pushy, but the guaranteed 'no' was always there. I don't even cuddle up to her sleeping anymore - makes a noise like an angry cat - literally hisses - or complains I'm hogging the bed and pushes me away. Yet she'd be the one cuddling up to me years ago to go to sleep, now says that was due to the bed being too small.

She's aware of the problems we face - but VERY defensive over it. She's 'working on it' yet nothing ever changes, and her general approach regarding our mismatched drives is 'deal with it'.

The really boggling thing - from our history, and the history I know of her from others, this is not at all how she used to be. 
Hugs are pulled away from, if ever allowed to be initiated, kisses rare, yet CONSTANT yammering of 'I love you' from her. So often and robotic it has lost any and all meaning.

One of the accusations leveled was that my timing was bad for attempting to initiate - I do recall that. Regardless of when, she'd be tired, headache, not now dear. Always with the impression that if only my timing was better....things would happen.

Then there was the accusation that *I* wasn't picking up on her signals, that I was oblivious. Her saying 'I'm going to bed' - simply, flatly - was MEANT to mean 'I"m going to bed - but note I didn't say sleep'. How the F*** am I meant to play this damn game - I'm not a mind-reader.
But once again - it was MY fault for being as she put it, oblivious.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

That's what I thought.

To pull off the type of response I proposed, you have to be ok with yourself. Have you had any individual counseling?

It's difficult to take our wives off the pedestal we put them on. It's actually your mom's spot anyway, so there's really no need for your wife to be there.

Once you see yourself as her equal, witty banter becomes an attractive option. It's a great gatekeeper to intimacy.




ExpatBrit said:


> I quite possibly am - come to think of it, I dont exactly win any arguments, so very probably seek to avoid conflict with her. When she's emotional she can be frankly someone I dont want to be with - very rude, nasty and, I find myself often thinking - a polar opposite to the way I treat her.


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

Conrad said:


> That's what I thought.
> 
> To pull off the type of response I proposed, you have to be ok with yourself. Have you had any individual counseling?
> 
> ...


I have not - however I've changed significantly in the last 9 months. Working out, no more depression, in general a LOT happer with myself.

Today the being more assertive has seemingly gone over well - however the 10 second kiss is a *complete* disaster.

Her instant response was along the lines of 'why? why 10 seconds?' 'Thats creepy!'


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## Duke (May 15, 2011)

I don't think you're supposed to tell her 10 seconds, you just do it! Limited success here, but when it does work it's great!


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## AllyM (Aug 2, 2011)

Ya know I had a really bad day and I got on the boards tonight to wallow, really, but I have to thank you all, I know you are talking about serious stuff but reading this thread I have been laughing so hard (and I really mean this lightheartedly). Conrad talking about "taking her" and Expatbrit with "she will seriously kill me" and the 10 second kiss that was "creepy": I feel so much better and I think the takeaway is that we all are going through so much stress and we forget to laugh at ourselves sometimes. I love everyone on this site!!!! It will get better.:rofl:


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## ExpatBrit (Aug 24, 2011)

AllyM said:


> Ya know I had a really bad day and I got on the boards tonight to wallow, really, but I have to thank you all, I know you are talking about serious stuff but reading this thread I have been laughing so hard (and I really mean this lightheartedly). Conrad talking about "taking her" and Expatbrit with "she will seriously kill me" and the 10 second kiss that was "creepy": I feel so much better and I think the takeaway is that we all are going through so much stress and we forget to laugh at ourselves sometimes. I love everyone on this site!!!! It will get better.:rofl:


I have been finding myself laughing at some of the advice, or at least rolling my eyes, that I've found on this board - in this thread and others.

I especially find MEM's advice around using spanking hilarious - do that here and she'd have a police cruiser outside the door in 10 minutes!


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## AllyM (Aug 2, 2011)

Yea spanking definitely not recommended. As a women I can tell you that we are very manipulative with our men. It sounds to me like your wife is manipulating you, she's possibly having a little self esteem issue and taking it out on you? I would try really working on yourself, join a gym start a new hobby get happy. It might open her eyes to what fun and happiness she is missing. And if not, you will look really hot so you can give someone else the "creepy" 10 second kiss. LOL


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