# Ain't no sunshine when she's gone - crossing the line



## Simpofny86 (Feb 11, 2020)

Love is a funny thing. Sometimes makes you high, other times makes you suffer in conceivably. 

Story goes. I been married for 4 years in relationship 7 years.
Recently after over 7 years I found out my wife met someone in November while on business trip to Orlando.
To make this even for both sides, for the past lets say a year I have been not the best husband. I made mistakes that I regret every time I look into her eyes. Some small some bigger. I was never unfaithful. I guess the worst I have done is kissed one of her girlfriends on the lips while leaving the bar, drunk. Very drunk. At the end its not an excuse. But I guess it was for me next day. Just another weekend without thinking.

I could probably name few more instances being total ******* to a woman I promised to cherish till death due as apart.

But focus is on current state of mind and heart.

Now we are in February. Let's call it an affair for sake of writing.

It started around mid November. They met, this is assumption on my part, they spent few days in Orlando working. They talked, found each other attractive and in similar situation. Unhappy marriage. While different circumstances still his wife and me push our significant other to the edge.

While being together the reality seemed to fade away. It's like that first love you have while still in high school.
Gives you butterflies and makes you feel special and appreciated. You just can't resist the urge of just going and flying in clouds of this fantasy.

I will cut in here with one, I believe, important motion. They never had sex. This was/is pure emotional too-close relationship.

She comes back. Has his number. Butterflies are flying. Why not try to enjoy this while they both can? We all know that secret makes things even more spicy and exciting.

So off they went, in my believe they met few times. Kissed. But mostly talked. Kept the fantasy going. Stayed away from the hurtful reality of unhappy marriage. Bills, work and daily struggles that east coast represents.

I found out about it on January 6th, a day my wife was going abroad on another business trip (without him - they work for same company but different states - no daily contact etc..).
I didn't confront her about it. I decided to go for a long walk while she was packing and getting ready to get to the airport.

I went to a bar sat down and drunk few to ease the sorrow. I knew the flight is long and she won't be able to see any messages till day later.

I wrote her pretty straight message - I know.

I felt confused, heart broken and a lot of pain. I could not believe it, But then I started adding stuff up and it all made sense.
She reached out next day, confirmed what I thought. Apologized. We talked. We decided to face to face about it. 

That week was the most painful week of my life. We didn't talk much. It was hard for me to do so. I wasn't sure if I should yell or cry or beg.
Work was terrible, nothing made sense for that time. Music, movies, friends and family. I hated it all.

She came back, we talked, hugged, kiss. She promised it was over. Well I'm a ***** paranoid guy and didn't trust it. We had fights. I packed my bag few times. Decided to go to my family and gave up on all of it. I didn't (I will explain in few why not)
At some point I wrote to his wife that her husband and my wife have an affair. That was on Saturday. While my wife still in contact through the weekend and Monday with him, his wife reads the message I sent on Tuesday. Hell breaks lose. 
My wife crying, what she has done to us and his marriage. 

This was Tuesday. Mid January.

Let me go back why I didn't gave up. For starters I love my wife with all my heart. While we talked a lot and she admitted to the relationship. She put it out there that shes been unhappy with us, and specifically with me. With lack of perspective from our current situation. I do give her benefit of the doubt in that regard. Because I since I found out about the Affair, I been looking closely at myself. And yeah, I do see her point. Does that excuse her? Absolutely not. I believe what she did is horrible to me and all the 7 years we have been together. I don't want to go into pros and cons of myself. Because at the end of the day I'm a good guy with big heart. But with tendency to slip and make mistakes, and not learn from them. 

Moving forward, after that hell Tuesday. Next Saturday she went for a training to south Carolina for work again (I know. Crazy job. Where do I sign?)
Since hell-Tuesday my hope on fixing this mess was big. On Friday before SC trip, we went out for dinner and had good time.
On Saturday I gave her a kiss and told her to have a good trip.
Till the moment I found out he goes as well to the same training site. Well ***** paranoid me, I went into overdrive. Called her accusing her of all kinds of things. She explained that she didn't know he is going. That it's different conferences and trainings. She swore that she hasn't seen him and really talked to him. Well crazy me went and started talking to his wife. For good few hours. While drinking (bad idea). Basically we went exchanging our sorrows. That it's probably our fault this is happening. No excuse again. But guilt was definitely there.
In some instance while being drunk I said few things completely wrong. 1.i said she still very pretty 2. That after we get divorced we should vet dinner together (with laugh emoji) 3. I did say something being very drunk and horny (****)

I called my wife during that night, being drunk and all giving her all kinds of **** and that it's all over. 
She was gone for a week and we barely spoke. She was mad at me for being paranoid and talking to his wife. I hated every moment of it. Because from one side I was thinking that she is being honest and trying to save this marriage. And she is not talking to him at all. On the other, we'll who knows? Maybe they are spending quality time together.
After she came back, and with my deep evaluation of the whole situation I wasn't ready to give up. Man I am, I tried to make her happy. I wanted to save my marriage at all cost. But also with thought that my wife has feelings for another man. While I believe their relationship ended. She is broken about it. She found this fantasy and wanted to hold on to it, but I broke it apart. Tore what once was clouds of butterflies. Was/is there resentment towards me because of it? I wouldn't be surprised.

But Im still not giving up. I'm all in. Why? Well some people call it brave or stupid. Love or not, some see it as your wife is treating you like a toy. Maybe I lost my backbone somewhere. I'm not sure., I'm following my heart. There is a line somewhere which If I cross it will be all over. But I'm holding up to hope of being a batter friend and husband. And be with her till death due as apart.... Well here comes a glitch.

While for past 2 weeks me trying to be better for her and trying to at least make us happy to some level. She has been distant. She needs time to figure out what she wants in life. She wants to focus on herself etc... (resentment?) 
We were talking about us a lot. And I felt good about moving forward with our situation. Well bad thing happen when the conversation I had with HIS wife while being drunk ended up with on my wife's phone. Those things I said being horny etc...
Well ****, it slapped me right in the face. Everything I did for the past few weeks - destroyed. While I forgot about that conversation and I actually didn't remembered saying some of those nasty things. Well it's here. And I think my wife hates me for being stupid once again. And she warned me about his wife being crazy. HIS wife used those conversations against well either her husband my wife or both I don't know.

Now I believe while my wife was going to reach out to me and make things right. Now it's all gone and I pushed her away towards him because of my insecurities and being drunk idiot. 

She was watching his twitch stream tonight. With her eyes closed. I guess listening to his voice. (she doesn't know I know) 

Well here I am. February. Hurting. Once again. Giving space and time again. Or crossing the line that I don't want to cross. But maybe it's time to listen to your brain instead of the heart.

Few things to point out:

- she is 36, he is 25. I'm 33
- he has 2 kids. We don't have any
- my wife said that's not true. But I believe there was a weekend together (she said it was for work)
- I strongly believe there was no sex. If there was even a hint of it I be gone and never look back
She admitted to kissing few times. Mostly it was talking over the phone. He lives far.
- those things I said to his was I find horrible and no excuse. Drunk or not should not happen. Dinner was just a joke. Telling her she was still pretty, I was being polite during a conversation because she was depressed about herself. Horny part I have no idea and to be honest I don't wanna know what was going thru my mind at that moment.

- there is part of me where I believe I'm being naive.
- also my financial situation and family kinda stops me from moving away. It's not impossible but.... 

(FYI ESL)
(excuse the grammar. It's late) 
-simp


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Sympofny86, unless you just started here, it should be clear that cheaters are liars. All lie, obfuscate, and so forth. Get a lawyer now and start your 180. Oh, those business trips! Many are screw parties! I'd bet
your WW has been doing this for awhile. It is a PA!


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Stay away from the booze. You can't properly assess the situation when your head is in a fog.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You have zero kids........... GTFO yesterday. Once a cheater, always a cheater. If you dig you will 

likely find this wasn't her first rodeo. If cheating is a deal breaker for you, once is enough.

Lawyer up......start safeguarding your assets. What state are you in?

Do you own your home or rent?


----------



## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

stay off the alcohol
you want to save your marriage then WW has to go NC with the OM that means WW
has to leave her job. APs can not work for the same company.

WWs lie, when they claim it was not physical, they made out,
when they just made out they had sex.

this is why WW has to take a poly graph test.

unless you need to confirm there is NC, there is no longer a need to contact the OMW.
example you: my WW is going on a business trip to boston this week. OMW: well your
WW can't be seeing my WH because h is home this week. phone call short and to the 
point.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sorry you're here. 

I can say do stay away from the booze, maybe for a good while. 

There's no good judgement available for you after one starts drinking. There just isn't. 

Then, as you make decisions you can be sure they're your own and not from being under the influence. 

So your confidence in whatever you decide will be much greater.

Hang in there.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Simpofny86 said:


> I will cut in here with one, I believe, important motion. They never had sex. This was/is pure emotional too-close relationship.


I have oceanfront property in Colorado I'd like to sell you.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, apparently.


----------



## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Regardless of the problems in your marriage. With no kids she had many options but she chose to stay married to you - plus have an affair with a much younger man. 

Are you financially dependent on your wife?

Adults don't just kiss. In fact, surveys/studies of cheaters show, that the 'kiss' is the last moral boundary that once crossed leads directly to sex.

You were correct to expose the affair to the OM's wife. The fallout is called 'consequences' for both of them. He's a very young man with 2 kids so it's not likely he wants to leave his wife. She was just his side piece. 

After learning your wife was out of town with the OM your subsequent angry phone calls to your wife should have been expected. The related texting with the OM's wife is understandable (but immature) - and the texts are not on the same level as your wife's affair. 

Regardless of whether you divorce, you need to stop drinking. Clean up your diet, lose weight, go to the gym - make yourself into the best version of yourself. 

IMO, she knew he would be at the week long training event. Why? because given their emotional connection, it's the first question she would ask herself when planning the trip.

This is not a court of law where you need eye witness proof of infidelity. Under the circumstances, since there are no kids, many would divorce immediately based on what you already know. 

Her behavior (and lying by omission) is suspicious enough for you not to trust her. And since she destroyed your trust, you no longer can believe her words, excuses or explanations. It's her job to restore trust by doing whatever you need.

If sex is a deal breaker and you want to know the truth, insist on a polygraph test. Even if you don't believe in the reliability of a polygraph (then bluff), the prospect of a polygraph tends to discourage lies (sometimes immediately and sometimes just prior to the test).


----------



## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

You say you kissed a girlfriend of your wife's on the lips.
Did this kissing, and the other mistakes you mention, happen before your wife met this new guy?

If so, does your wife know about this kissing of yours, and the other things you can't look her in the eyes about?

Just wondering about the timelines here and if it was you who was detaching from the marriage before your wife was.


----------



## Simpofny86 (Feb 11, 2020)

We live in NYC. Renting an apartment. Divorce would be pretty straightforward. We talked about it at some point and there would be no fighting.

Yes the kissing happen I would say a year ago. And yes my wife knew about it. She witnessed it. It wasn't long kiss or anything. It was lips instead of cheek kinda kiss. But still didn't look good. 
The other mistakes happen before she met him. The only mistake so far is me messaging his wife inappropriately stuff. 

I'm not financially dependent on her. We both work full time at decent jobs. 

Well sex would be deal breaker. I know people say I'm in denial 
And I agree but I also know my wife, the situation from up-close and I don't think that happened. Not all affairs end in sex. But again maybe I'm telling myself what I want to hear. 

And the weekend they supposedly spent together isn't necessarily true. I didn't see any evidence of that. But I seen evidence of her being in training. Again they don't work together. Same company different state. 

Alcohol is definitely a problem for me. I have been cutting it out of my life slowly but effectively. 

Thank you all for you opinions. It's appreciated.


----------



## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Simpofny86 said:


> We live in NYC. Renting an apartment. Divorce would be pretty straightforward. We talked about it at some point and there would be no fighting.
> 
> Yes the kissing happen I would say a year ago. And yes my wife knew about it. She witnessed it. It wasn't long kiss or anything. It was lips instead of cheek kinda kiss. But still didn't look good.
> The other mistakes happen before she met him. The only mistake so far is me messaging his wife inappropriately stuff.
> ...


People say you are in denial because you are in denial. Of the wayward spouses that have lied, which is most by like 99.999%, everyone of them said it was just kissing. 

She is lying, polygraph her if you want the truth... 

Adults attracted and in "LURV" have sex, your wife had sex multiple times with her boyfriend. 

You are a drunk, stop drinking, just stop it... However, that is not an excuse for her to cheat, which she did, and which you are in complete and total denial about... 

I don't know if you are in AA, you should be, I don't know a lot about it, others here do. But I know one thing that AA tries to get people to do I look at reality. Not the drunken haze that you have been living with, but actual reality. 

Your are not to blame for your wife's affair, she could have just divorced you. She is responsible for her affair, just like you are responsible for your abuse of alcohol. 

If her having sex is a deal breaker then you need to file for divorce. I hope you get that pretty quickly...


----------



## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

First thing STOP DRINKING !!
Sorry that you are in this situation 

You need to take care of yourself first and get a clear head to handle this.
She will use this against you, she has already said your paranoid and will 
probably tell you your imagining things. You are not. You sent his wife 
a message and your wife cried about " what she has done to us and his 
marriage " She wants to figure out what she wants in her life and concentrate 
on herself etc ? Now she is listening to his voice with her eyes closed ?

This and many other things in your OP scream PA.
He has a wife and two kids and his marriage is failing. I can see why, he screwing 
around. Your wife may not be the first affair he has had. It may mean one thing to 
her but nothing to him. He lives far away and can see her on trips and then go back 
home. He probably telling his wife that your jealous and imagining things. And that you 
drink a lot. 

Cheaters lie, then lie some more. Sometimes their lies contradict other lies. If this happened 
then how could that be true etc. Spent the weekend together but nothing happened ?
They even lie to each other to keep things going, I would leave my wife except for the kids
I bet he has told your wife that several times already. His wife has every right to know, if they
still see each other keep her updated. 

The most important thing for now is you. Getting your head straight and stop blaming yourself
for everything. If she wasn't happy then she could have tried counseling or something else. 
She could have even filed for divorce. She is having an affair instead. 

Take care of yourself. Yes this hurts like hell but drinking will only add to the pain.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Simpofny86 said:


> We live in NYC. Renting an apartment. Divorce would be pretty straightforward. We talked about it at some point and there would be no fighting.
> 
> Yes the kissing happen I would say a year ago. And yes my wife knew about it. She witnessed it. It wasn't long kiss or anything. It was lips instead of cheek kinda kiss. But still didn't look good.
> The other mistakes happen before she met him. The only mistake so far is me messaging his wife inappropriately stuff.
> ...


0

A few thoughts. First you know you have an alcohol problem. Do something about it. Make a promise to yourself that you will not have any for say 3 months.

You really need to figure out what you want. You sound like you want to remain married to your wife. You sound like you can't trust your wife because of your fears. You need to confront your inner demons.

My suggestion is either get yourself some really great DIY books or go to individual counseling to get your alcohol and your emotional issues worked out. Tell you wife you are going to take the next three months to making and changing you and your life. If you want to tell her after a couple months you make progress that you would like the two of you to do marriage counseling, if you want to try to reconcile your marriage. If you don't want to reconcile, but instead move toward divorce, marriage counseling can help with a structured separation and a way to leave friends or at least leave on speaking terms.

You are an adult, you can do whatever you want. Conversely, so is your wife. You can't force her to be faithful, you can't force her to love you when you treat her badly. She gets to decide those things.

Good luck to you. But please work on yourself and pull yourself together emotionally and physically. Exercise is a great antidepressant. Working on you mentally, emotionally and physically will make you more attractive to your wife or to the next woman in your life, should you decide to divorce her.


----------



## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

You need to stop with the booze.

Neither of you can figure anything out with it being there.

Start there. He said/she said just causes more issues...then more. Stress and losing hair? 

Ef...talking to the WW is just driving them closer...especially loaded. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

And what you are doing is playing the pick me game. It never works out with what you expect. But talking about divorce before this says alot. But in case you're wondering the kiss you gave to the other woman is cheating. I suspect your wife has been yours for some time. And your stance of wanting to save your marriage makes you look weak. 

Why in hell, do you want a cheating woman for? She's listen to his voice because he has banged her and she liked it and misses him she's in limerance mode and you will never beat her lover. Your just in the way. 

Take what little respect you have for your self and give her what she wants her freedom. You write your post with what you think is witt but, it shows controlling. You think you must win at all cost, but you've already lost. 

Learn from this and don't make the same mistakes again, in your future relationships.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@Simpofny86 your wife is a cheater, whether it was an emotional or physical affair it is still cheating! In addition your WW is a cradle snatcher, a man of 25!
YOu have done a lot of things wrong. Stop chasing her. She should be the one trying to make things right and do the heavy lifting.
Start the 180 on her now. No discussing no phoning or texting her, go cold turkey completely.
Go and see a good counselor about getting your own life on track, cutting out drinking etc.
Join a gym and start working on being a better man,not for your wife but for yourself. Do something for yourself, a hobby, take up running etc.
Tell your family and friends what is happening and reach out for some support.
Stop contacting the OM's wife


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> People say you are in denial because you are in denial. Of the wayward spouses that have lied, which is most by like 99.999%, everyone of them said it was just kissing.
> 
> She is lying, polygraph her if you want the truth...
> 
> ...


If you feel you would benefit from a group support environment that's great but take note AA isn't the only option, and in mine and others opinions AA isn't the best fit for all and has many drawbacks, negative "rules" and mantras that inhibit one from finding their individual solutions. 

Many quit or drink more responsibly on their own, or with more personal group or friends support. Don't become self condemning, just be aware of how you may improve yourself.

You can do it my friend.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Phew! Thank goodness, @Simpofny86! It's not the fault of your wife! It's not the fault of the other man!

They had an affair because you and his wife are, by coincidence, of course, horrible people.

And here they are, together, the two lovers, singing their favourite song:-


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

aine said:


> @Simpofny86 your wife is a cheater, whether it was an emotional or physical affair it is still cheating! In addition your WW is a cradle snatcher, a man of 25!
> YOu have done a lot of things wrong. Stop chasing her. She should be the one trying to make things right and do the heavy lifting.
> Start the 180 on her now. No discussing no phoning or texting her, go cold turkey completely.
> Go and see a good counselor about getting your own life on track, cutting out drinking etc.
> ...


Like @MattMatt says, the above, and quit taking responsibility for THEIR decisions to cheat. 

Work on you and whether or not it happens start preparing to live independently as in by yourself.

Dear Lord drop her from any joint credit cards, get a sep bank account. 

The separation may or may not be up to you but if you decide to part you'll be ready.

If she takes it out of your hands and says she quits, you'll be ready.

Either way if there's a parting of ways make her be the one to leave the house. If she wants to live as a single person she can embrace all that goes with it, responsibilities and all.


----------



## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Hope you are doing well today. Going through a lot but you have family 
and you need to lean on them for support. Not drinking I hope or listening 
to her obvious lies and excuses. She is going to blame you just like he is
blaming his wife. BS on both of those. 

Since your wife is sitting around listening to his voice she is probably in an
affair fog. Thinking about what has been between them and imagining what 
she thinks will be. That's not happening, relationships based on cheating don't
work out. You need to take some action to snap her back to real life. Getting
divorce paper work or since you rent maybe moving out. Let her know you will 
not tolerate a third person in your marriage. Plus it will give you time to think.

Hope you are taking care of you first however. Don't listen to her blame shifting
to you. You didn't cheat she did. You have admitted you have some problems and 
are working to fix them. She should be there to support you but she isn't. 

If you need to vent or hear others advice and support we will listen.

Take care of yourself first.


----------



## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

I was in your shoes. Years later I started a website and wrote a couple of books. This one will help you adjust to your new life moving forward:

dadstartingover.com/now-what


----------

