# Hating Your Kids



## bogey (Feb 17, 2012)

does it make you a bad person? I personally don't have any kids but I have some older friends who do and one particular friend warned me about having kids. 

'they rob you of your life and your dreams. its nice when they're young but they grow up to be little monsters' he says. he said all this in a tongue-n-cheeck manner but I get the feeling he isn't joking. I know that nobody on here is going to admit to hating their own kids because its not a 'PC' thing to do, but I'm sure it happens all the time.

really worried about having kids. i don't want them. but my wife does..


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I've never ONCE hated my kids... sure life is different when you have kids... but imo ... no they do not take away your life. One just has to learn to do things around and with them. I've been annoyed, frustrated, depressed, and overly anxious/worried when it came to my kids but dislike and hate never once crossed my mind. I do however know a few people whom have said they hate their kids as well... and the reasons they stated ... to me... seemed a tad selfish. When having kids your not a priority anymore... they are... and there are responsibilities that come with having kids, it's just a part of life and being an adult/parent. Having kids doesn't have to be a bad thing... but if your not quite ready you should let your wife know... and she should be able to respect how you feel as well.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

bogey said:


> 'they rob you of your life and your dreams. its nice when they're young but they grow up to be little monsters'


That is utter bs thinking imo... they do make it a bit more difficult to achieve your ultimate goals but they do not rob you of it imo. As far as them being monsters.... naw... they can be pain in the butts but far from monsters... lol. This is just my viewpoint though.


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## missinglife (May 1, 2012)

bogey said:


> does it make you a bad person? I personally don't have any kids but I have some older friends who do and one particular friend warned me about having kids.
> 
> 'they rob you of your life and your dreams. its nice when they're young but they grow up to be little monsters' he says. he said all this in a tongue-n-cheeck manner but I get the feeling he isn't joking. I know that nobody on here is going to admit to hating their own kids because its not a 'PC' thing to do, but I'm sure it happens all the time.
> 
> really worried about having kids. i don't want them. but my wife does..


I don't hate my kids. But sometimes I resent them immensely. Having and raising kids is by far the hardest thing I've ever done. And people will say "Oh, well it's the most rewarding too", but sometimes...it's not.

But I love them. Oh when they are cute and funny and say things that have you in fits, it's the best and you well up in love in a way that you will never, ever feel for anyone else. Unfortunately, there's no way to bottle that feeling to get you through the times when they whine and complain and are totally ungrateful for everything. Which is a lot of the time.

I personally think an open dialogue on what it's really like to have kids is important. Because we do have an emphasis on the PC in this society and it can make people feel like failures for not living up to that rosy ideal. 

No one who is not full 100% wanting kids should have them. I'd like to leave mine by the roadside sometimes, but I wanted them. Desperately (had some infertility issues in the beginning, then had a surprise #3!). So I know that if I DIDN'T have them, I'd be unhappy because I'd want kids.


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## cory275 (Aug 11, 2011)

i absolutely hate children. they annoy me to no end. traveling and acheiving goals is way more important to me than poppin out kids. 

you should have discussed the whole kid thing before you got married. but since you didnt.. figure out if its a deal breaker for you or her. otherwise you're just wasting your time


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

cory275 said:


> you should have discussed the whole kid thing before you got married. but since you didnt.. figure out if its a deal breaker for you or her. otherwise you're just wasting your time


:iagree:


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

They don't rob you of anything, it's not their fault their parent's conceived them. There is nothing wrong for not wanting kids, but blaming them because you're (the general, no one in particular) too lazy to slap a condom on or forgetting to take your birth control is stupid. Take some personal responsibility for your OWN fault.

That said, I've never hated my kids, not even close, but there are times when I don't like them. More so I don't like their attitudes or what they're doing. I LOVE my children and don't ever wish they never existed.

ETA: I know birth control fails sometimes, but even then, you don't blame the child. YOU know every sexual encounter you have could produce potential offspring.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

bogey said:


> really worried about having kids. i don't want them. but my wife does..


If you don`t want them most definitely don`t have them.

You`re wife is going to tell you "You`ll change your mind once that sweet little babe is in your hands"
Don`t buy it

No...most likely you won`t

If you actively don`t have a desire for kids you might very well end up hating what it`s done to your life by the time the kid is 3 months old.

By the time the kid is in it`s teens you`ll be a hollow shell of a man.

Indifferent to kids ,..mehh you might be ok.
"Don`t want kids" no way..don`t have them.

This should have been discussed prior to marriage.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

They can be challenging like when they needed spinal surgery and got misdiagnosed with 7 years of overflow incontinence like poop 20 times a day and endless surges of wetting followed by an hour or two of dribbling and thyroid disorder that make his cognitive processing slow....BUT...people have the kids they do because that is part of their journey in life. So maybe your friend is feeling frustrated and being honest about his feelings. This doesn't make him a bad person, it makes him human and he is likely to change at some point in the future because hating takes way too much energy. If his kids are older then feeling frustrated and not wanting to share too much space with them is natural...it's what leads you to cut those apron strings and give the kid the boot they need which is the ultimate confidence builder for a young person who needs to know they can survive in the world. It is natural. But you could ask what is up, it's probably one particular thing. For my older son, and he would hate me now for saying this, it was that he peed in a bottle and left it lying around, we had the whole great outdoors he could have got up and opened the front basement door and peed right there but he took the time to do it in a bottle and leave it there all day. Ugh. Then he complained that the chicken I bought was all natural but not organic. BOOT! We kind of laugh about that now. He texts me and we get together, we are good friends but down to like 4 visits a year because he is very busy with his responsible adult life, work and Army National Guard and college and his long-term girlfriend and his environmental policy volunteer/activism stuff he does. But yep, getting fed up with kids as they approach 18 is totally natural. My friend went through the same thing with her daughter, years before me, and didn't cut apron strings and her daughter needed her for a lot longer...can we say codependent....yet today they get along fine, my friend now has a grandson and the daughter has moved to be a bit closer to her mom. I really think it's a stage, just like people get fed up with some of the toilet training habits of our little friends who have their own ideas about how to go about it, or refuse to wear jeans or want their socks to be a certain way (no lines across the toes!!!) or the shirts have to be stripes and the food better not touch the other food and so forth. We can work out our issues with our kids and it's easier to understand our adult friends as big kids. It is a growth thing. My kids were surprised when I told them not everyone has kids, kids are special, and it is a sort of special thing to be a parent, some people want to be parents and cannot be, whether because they value economics and financial security more, but I think it is a great big adventure. It has definitely made me a better person. Not only do you get your kids, but you get your kids' friends in your life too. It's funny, my older son had a friend who is now a classmate of mine!

I was neglected and abused when I was a kid, but there were plenty of people in my town who loved me. So having a parent who fails by abandonment (left marriage and home, including me - mother) or suicide (father) isn't the end of the world. Every kid will find a person or multiple adults who make a difference in their lives. In some societies people have more than one set of parents, that is they have spiritual parents. So I wouldn't necessarily worry too much about your friends' kids. They will find what they need elsewhere, and it will be okay. Not all parents are fit. But not all of them are neglectful. Sure the kids will need therapy, but I know plenty of kids who were loved and they couldn't cope with the world! So it works both ways.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

They do not rob you of your life. You can have a life and have children. I find that mine add to my life in ways I never thought they would. My kids drive me nuts sometimes but because of them my life is better, fuller, more meaningful, and more.

Having a practical mindset about kids is better then listening to people who want to blame their children for the choice they made to have them. I would take a guess that this friend of yours is selfish and/or not mentioning the wonderful feelings, moment, and life they actually get to have too because of their children.

I think you need to talk to your wife and be practical about it. Honestly life does not end at kids. I hear that having kids is worth it to get the grand kids, or so my parents tell me


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Love my Kids.

being a parrent isn't for everyone.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I have never hated my kids. They frustrate the piss out of me at times, I have two that are 20 months apart (bad planning on my part) and sometimes money is tight due to unforseen expenses (a broken bone, dentist visit, endless school and activities) but do they rob me of my dreams? NO! One of my dreams was to have a family and be a mother. My husband a father. If that is not your dream, you need to be frank and divorce your wife NOW! Or you will give in to something you do not want, not be there for the kids you contribute to, and then she will resent you for not helping her, because it's hard to do it alone (ask any single mother or father). Children are a fulltime job on top of your regular work, and they require love and attention far beyond your wildest dreams! But they are a joy with their laughs and their hugs, and watching them grow, and watching them learn and achieve their own dreams. That for my husband and I is a daily dream come true. Do we sacrifice some things we wanted in life sometimes, yes. We watch single friends go on cruises, and such while we do the "family" trips to Disney or camping.... oi.... yes definitely should have had this discussion before you got married.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Yes. Hating your kids makes you a bad person.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Absolutely love my kids! They are truly the wind beneath my wings. They are responsible, clean, respectable, intelligent, and attract a like class of friends.

Conversely, STBXW's kids were problem children, school dropouts, refused to clean up after themselves, disrespectful of others and their property, associated with the drug and tattoo culture, refused to do work and fully expected to be financially provided for. I had absolutely no respect for them, much the same that they had for me. I really feel that they were the ultimate wedge in splitting me and STBXW up. I disliked them intently, but I can't say that I hated them!


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

I love my kids. I don't like them all the time...but I love them. LOL
I love hearing the word Daddy.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I am over the top frustrated with my 12 year old right now, but hate her? Never!

I love them all to death and they didn't ruin my world, they are my world. However, I also knew I wanted kids so I would definitely advise you to listen to others on here. If you don't KNOW you want kids, don't have them.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

i personally hate all kids..they are cute..over there. my husband is a kid/child magnet. we will be sitting at the park [smoking, and our kids at home] and random kids will just come up to him, and start talking...

my guy isnt freakishy tall but he has a large presence, and kids will just talk away to him...me not so much. he is nice about it, and will talk and respond to them, its strange.

i attract cats...

my fav saying is:i may not like you right now, but i will always love you.


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## Mrs.K (Apr 12, 2012)

While parenting is the hardest most exhausting thing I have ever done I love my kids and I don't feel like they have taken anything away from me I feel more like they have GIVEN me SO much.

I can say that I love every moment yup, even the worst and most difficult times!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

bogey said:


> does it make you a bad person? I personally don't have any kids but I have some older friends who do and one particular friend warned me about having kids.
> 
> 'they rob you of your life and your dreams. its nice when they're young but they grow up to be little monsters' he says. he said all this in a tongue-n-cheeck manner but I get the feeling he isn't joking. I know that nobody on here is going to admit to hating their own kids because its not a 'PC' thing to do, but I'm sure it happens all the time.
> 
> really worried about having kids. i don't want them. but my wife does..


 If I couldn't stand my rug rats, I'd probably spill it ....I try to be as real as I can with my experiences. 

Here is what I think... I would never judge another's experience with kids ...to what your own MIGHT BE....or let that stop you & your wife....most of your outcome and experience will depend on YOU & her & how you guide them through their life....if you decide to have them one day.... I truly believe that. 


I think it comes down to variety of things....how they may turn out in life....for instance...

1. *Environment *....extended family's involvement, neighborhood growing up in, what he/she sees in the home, on tv, activities they are in, etc.

2. *Parental influence *....are the parents involved, do they talk to their kids... deeply listen....are they approachable with problems, do the parents shame them, is the dad in their life...if not, Mom's job will be alot tougher.....

3. *Family Genes *.... often times our kids are a little chip off the old block, they have our traits in them, you will see it as they grow up, things you hate about yourself and sometimes the things you like about yourself too! 

4. *Who they Hang with- their friends *.....you could take the best kid, on the right track in life, good self esteem , good grades...have him/her fall into some peer pressure & totally destruct his/her life. This is something to be on guard about as they enter High school, commuinciation with your kids needs to be at it's finest in these vital years. 

5. *Discipline* ....If a parent is lax here (and it needs to start early)....that child is not going to respect authority, may become lazy, give into many vices. TOUGH LOVE is needed sometimes and tender love is needed other times. 

Warn them of *Consequences* (always) to wrong behaviors.....Give them a little leeway in choices so they feel they have some control over their lives ...but warn them...you do this -this will = your result....if you let this one go...they may be lax, learn to take advantage of others (unhealthy boundaries), feel entitled to special treatment...this breeds many kids going through life aimlessly & wrecklessly. 


I feel so much of parenting is instilling values in your kids....being that example before them...... there are certain behaviors that parents must model themselves...and TALK to your kids....really talk ....and never forget to LISTEN... this allows kids to want to talk to us. Let them have their say, even if you don't agree, let them get it out --then calmy discuss. That is showing them some respect from you... .....They will be more apt to listen to US, once we have heard them out.... then we get the stage... to explain the why's behind why things are not acceptable...to do this at every stage in thier lives, at their level. Not so much sheilding them from the big bad world too much......but educating them. 

Showing them life can be beautiful, to reach for their dreams, I feel us parents are here to help them grow wings...so they can leave the nest someday.... Teach them it is OK to be different. If they have that stable foundation at home-this will help them even more. Hooking up with Good people generally = a better future. 




arbitrator said:


> Absolutely love my kids! They are truly the wind beneath my wings. They are responsible, clean, respectable, intelligent, and attract a like class of friends.


 I love this comment by Arbitrator... I wouldn't call our kids the "Wind beneath my wings"... when I hear that song... I think of their father. 

But honestly, our life would not be what it is...without those precious "gifts" in it. We would be utterly lost...without them. Somehow we ENJOY the chaos & challenges they bring. I mean that -sincerely. We wanted and prayed for all 6 of them.... They have brought us so much Joy over the years, precious memories, even some of our good friends have been found through their friends (their parents)... our children have made us PROUD. 

Are there times I want to pound them....heck yeah ! Do I yell in my home - I wouldn't be home if Mom didn't have something to YELL about ! I am very happy my neighbors are far away -so they don't hear me- they might think I am a crazy woman!

I would say our 10 yr old is the most difficult, he is highly sensitive (cries over a bagel for instance)...He is the most annoying little thing... he likes to get in your face & irritate his siblings to no end, then can't understand why they don't like him & want him to leave....then on top of this... his #1 Love language (I try to observe this in my children).... is "Words of Affirmation"... well I am not going to tell him how lovely & sweet he is when he is a pain up my butt. Me & him doesn't get along so well.... he likes his Dad much better. We are trying to work on him so he can see how badly this behavior is... to laugh at himself a little more & not take everything so sensitively. I forsee Hope. 

So sure...challenges come in raising children. But the Good most certainly CAN outweigh the bad.

But we are a couple who wanted children before we even walked down the aisle...it was in our hearts.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

cory275 said:


> i absolutely hate children. they annoy me to no end. traveling and acheiving goals is way more important to me than poppin out kids.
> 
> you should have discussed the whole kid thing before you got married. but since you didn't.. figure out if its a deal breaker for you or her. otherwise you're just wasting your time


LOL lets see how you feel when you can't travel or achieve anymore goals because your adult diapers in the assisted living facility are full and need changing. I used to work in an old folks home. It was so sad to see childless people die alone with nobody to say goodbye to. But hey when is your next trip? :smthumbup:

Children are one of the ways part of us lives on to future generations.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

bogey said:


> does it make you a bad person? I personally don't have any kids but I have some older friends who do and one particular friend warned me about having kids.
> 
> 'they rob you of your life and your dreams. its nice when they're young but they grow up to be little monsters' he says. he said all this in a tongue-n-cheeck manner but I get the feeling he isn't joking. I know that nobody on here is going to admit to hating their own kids because its not a 'PC' thing to do, but I'm sure it happens all the time.
> 
> really worried about having kids. i don't want them. but my wife does..


My mom used to say such things all the time. Her five children were "parasites" and "cost too much money." She wonders why my husband and I don't want to have babies. :rofl: Idiot. She makes snide remarks about our marriage-I think that woman is just jealous of our freedom. 

My MIL once screamed "I wish I never had kids!" when my husband confronted her about a rude comment she made about me. Strangely, both these women pressure us to have kids. I don't get it; I guess misery loves company?

I don't doubt that motherhood can be rewarding for many women. I just think that society tells women lies about how great being a mother is. No woman with kids can tell me that she doesn't have days, where she would be glad to trade places with me and not be tied down with the demands of children. 

Hate being a mom | Secret Confessions


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

Sanity said:


> LOL lets see how you feel when you can't travel or achieve anymore goals because your adult diapers in the assisted living facility are full and need changing. I used to work in an old folks home. It was so sad to see childless people die alone with nobody to say goodbye to. But hey when is your next trip? :smthumbup:
> 
> Children are one of the ways part of us lives on to future generations.


Do you think that *all *adult children take care of elderly parents? 

Childless people have nieces, nephews, cousins, friends etc. 

When I die, my three lovely nieces will come say goodbye to their loving auntie. They will remember our happy times and I plan on leaving my diamonds to those great girls. 

The idea that childless people live empty lives is laughable at best. Openminded and intelligent people know that there are many paths to happiness.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

Mrs.K said:


> While parenting is the hardest most exhausting thing I have ever done I love my kids and I don't feel like they have taken anything away from me I feel more like they have GIVEN me SO much.
> 
> I can say that I love every moment yup, even the worst and most difficult times!


Every child should have a mother like you! :smthumbup:


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## KittyKat (May 11, 2008)

I do not like children. I love my four legged children. But I really don't like the two legged variety. So courtesy of Ann Landers, here you go:

The Childless Couple

There is nothing sadder than a childless couple. It breaks my heart to see them relaxing around swimming pools in Florida, sitting all suntanned and miserable on the decks of their boats -- trotting off to Europe like lonesome fools. It's an empty life. Nothing but money to spend, more time to enjoy and a whole lot less to worry about.

The poor childless couple are so wrapped up in themselves, you have to feel sorry for them. They don't fight over the child's discipline, don't blame each other for the child's most obnoxious characteristics, and they miss all the fun of doing without for the child's sake. They just go along, doing whatever they want, buying what they want and liking each other. It's a pretty pathetic picture.

Everyone should have children. No one should be allowed to escape the wonderful experience that accompanies each stage in the development of the young -- the happy memories of sleepless nights, coughing spells, tantrums, diaper rash, debts, "dipso" baby sitters, saturated mattresses, emergencies and never-ending crises.

How dismal is the peaceful home without the constant childish problems that make a well-rounded life and an early breakdown; the tender, thoughtful discussions when the report card reveals the progeny to be one step below a moron; the end-of-the-day reunions with all the joyful happenings recited like well-placed blows to the temples.

Children are worth it. Every moment of anxiety, every sacrifice, every complete collapse pays off as a fine, sturdy adolescent is reached. The feeling of reward the first time you took the boy hunting -- he didn't mean to shoot you, the lad was excited. Remember how he cried? How sorry he was? And how much better you felt after the blood transfusion? These are the times a man with a growing son treasures -- memories that are captured forever in the heart and the limp.

Think back to the night of romantic adventure when your budding daughter eloped with the village idiot. What childless couple ever shared in the stark realism of that drama? Aren't you a better man for having lived richly, fully, acquiring that tic in your left eye? Could a woman without children touch the strength and heroism of your wife as she tried to fling herself out of the bedroom window?

The childless couple live in a vacuum. They fill their lonely days with golf, vacation trips, dinner dates, civic affairs, tranquility, leisure and entertainment. There is a terrifying emptiness without children, but the childless couple are too comfortable to know it.

You just have to look at them to see what the years have done: He looks boyish, unlined and rested; she's slim, well-groomed and youthful. It isn't natural. If they had had kids, they'd look like the rest of us -- worn out, wrinkled and exhausted.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MrsKy said:


> Do you think that *all *adult children take care of elderly parents?
> 
> Childless people have nieces, nephews, cousins, friends etc.
> 
> ...


There is nothing wrong with choosing to not have children....nothing at all...we don't all share the same gifts and passions in this life. We have more children in this world who are suffering due to those who were not prepared or it was never in thier heart to be parents......our Foster Care system is busting at the seems....some shouldn't even entertain the idea. And that is OK. 

It should be an agreed upon Lifestyle that a husband & wife want to live & share.

I hope to never be a Burden to my children ... I really hate that thought....When they leave the nest, it is their life to live, make their own families.... our mission completed...and we'll count it all JOY. 

If we were loving respectful parents, they will want to come back and spend time with us, make time for us.. which will bring us happiness...but I refuse to "expect', or infringe upon them in their very busy lives raising their own kids- with jobs & the high demands of our world today. I will likely want to help them as much as I can- as this somehow is what brings ME & my husband Joy. 

It is kinda like that book ..."*The Giving Tree*"... you just give & you give...at the end, the tree was just a stump...but it was "*Happy*". I look upon parenting like that. >>> The Giving Tree


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Children teach you what unconditional and selfless love is... you get little or no thanks for much of what you do... maybe some soggy loves and kisses when their young and the occassional grunt during the teens. My eldest is now in his twenties and I'm just so proud and in love with him I could just burst.

Having said all that... I am also looking forward to the next stage of our lives...empty nesters... gosh hope the kids come visit


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

I had my daughter when I was 21, 2 months out of university, when I had my whole 20's ahead of me, had split up with the father

I had to grow up, get out to work and support us on my own, rarely went out and could quite easily have resented that fact, and to be honest if I hadn't had her I may never have had children

but you know what? If I could go back I would still do it all again, because the single biggest achievement in my life is turning this tiny little baby into a gorgeous, fun, clever, sweet, popular young woman who has a great future ahead of her. She's the light of my life and I love her more than anything in the world. She doesn't follow the crowd and people like her all the more for it - her teachers love her, her friends love her, MY friends love her 

love you lil' Dolly, you are the best *sob sob*


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I believe that even with ours kids we have (or don't have) compatibility. Since we get a chance to raise them with our values, we are more likely to have it. However, if the parents divorce, the kids may be exposed to plenty of incompatible values, not just at school but by other trusted adults. 

I experienced that, and it has sometimes created tremendous strain with my children. Their dad is the Disneyland parent who let them run while he went to bars, smoked weed, and sometimes ventured into cocaine, while I was the strict one who didn't do any of these things. I held them accountable, and he accepted excuses. 

For about 2 years, I dreaded talking to two of my girls because it almost always turned hostile. They were grown and had moved back to his house. They had started partying heavily, getting high, paying for tattoos and piercings but not saving enough to make their car payments - and no, I didn't bail them out. The whole while, of course, their dad couldn't resist jabs at me whenever my name came up in their presence.

Although I've never hated my kids, I have had intense anger, felt betrayed and hurt, and sometimes wished I could lash out. During those two years, I answered their phone calls, but did not initiate any except when they asked me to, and I told them why. 

Eventually, they started to understand some of my thinking and our relationships have improved, but I remain cautious and uphold my boundaries. My youngest daughter recently told my new husband that she, her sister, and her dad had treated me badly. Her admission surprised me, but it also gave me hope. 

Is it worth it to have kids? My opinion is that for the most part it is, but that it can also prove to be very difficult if you discover other trusted adults working against your relationship with your kids.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

This is a generalization, but I think men and women view having kids very differently. For the man, he may think his "fun" life is over. He looks at the expenses, the lack of sex, sleep, etc. They tend to think more logically and not emotionally.

A woman carries the child and loves that child before they even meet. Taking care of a child you want is not work for a woman, it is a natural loving act. Men will never understand this bond because they don't give birth.

If your husband has friends who ***** about their lives being over because of kids, perhaps they shouldn't have become a father. And these "fathers of the year" aren't doing you nor your husband any favors by scaring him about children.

On a personal note, I view children like your husbands friends. I know I feel this way and no matter how many people would say "you would make a great mom" the thought of having kids makes me recoil in horror. So I have many pets to be maternal to.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

I love my lil fur munchkin. 

I suppose that many of my reasons for not wanting children are more on the logical side.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> There is nothing wrong with choosing to not have children....nothing at all...we don't all share the same gifts and passions in this life. We have more children in this world who are suffering due to those who were not prepared or it was never in thier heart to be parents......our Foster Care system is busting at the seems....some shouldn't even entertain the idea. And that is OK.
> 
> It should be an agreed upon Lifestyle that a husband & wife want to live & share.
> 
> ...


I love that book. It is one of my favorites.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Sanity said:


> LOL lets see how you feel when you can't travel or achieve anymore goals because your adult diapers in the assisted living facility are full and need changing. I used to work in an old folks home. It was so sad to see childless people die alone with nobody to say goodbye to. But hey when is your next trip? :smthumbup:
> 
> Children are one of the ways part of us lives on to future generations.


It's never good to do anything out of fear or anxiety about the future.

A couple days ago I was visiting my guy at his neuro rehabn facility and went into a woman's room to help her because of the situation you describe. Even if you have children, they are not going to be at the nursing home 100% of the time. So obviously therer will be times when only the staff are available to help with toileting, and yes, what you describe might happen, or perhaps the universe will provide someone.

When my guy was at the hospital, my kids and I befriended one of his roommates, an older gentleman who had no visitors. We gifted him a pair of nice slippers with sheepskin liners and a sturdy sole with rubber gripping on it (safety.) We visited him even he moved to another room and even after my guy left that hospital. We wanted him to leave this world wearing footwear that had been gifted out of love, even by strangers.

Children might visit out of duty, but if you get visitors and well-wishers who are not obliged, how is that a bad thing? 

Sh*t happens. You could have children and they could have dementia or like my son he had occult spina bifida if it hadn't been diagnosed finally after 7 years he would still be largely incontinent. 

I have a friend who takes care of her brother, he has Down's and he is old because she took such good care of him. But there are p**p problems and he is getting dementia. She never had children, but I don't think she spends much time worrying about who will take care of her. She has done so much for other people running her rehabilitation ranch that offers services to people with handicaps, that she doesn't have to worry much.

People can connect with their spiritual children. They can also have very good friends who are younger than them, or who have capabilities to help, regardless of age.

It's a false assumption to have children with an intent to have someone to take care of you in old age. It doesn't work out that way...it's only the illusion and belief that provides relief from anxious anticipation. 

It can work out that way...but I think it's wrong to procreate out of fear.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

don't have them just to have them.

i don't hate my kids. they are grown now and i love them. there were times that i resented them as i was in an abusive marriage and was trapped.

but see even that was up to me to do something about.

my daughter my our lives a living heck during her teen years running away pregnant at sixteen. she is nearly thirty now and she is much much better thank goodness. my son was ok until he got his drivers license and then i found out a friends parent was feeding the kids alcohol and he was drinking and driving and got several dui. this last time was a felony and he had to be in jail for a year and nearly went to prison so it was not good and it broke my heart.

i don't think i would bring kids into the world these days with things as they are now.

i really don't like being around small children now. they get on my nerves.

if you don't want any, get fixed and don't have any. nobody says you have to.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MrsKy said:


> I love that book. It is one of my favorites.


Yrs ago, I was searching for some interesting books for my kids on Amazon, I like to read reviews-before I buy anything... when I came to this *Giving Tree *Book- the sheer # of reviews caught my attention... I never even heard of it!! I guess I have been living under a rock. I started reading and the contrast in how others viewed this little book was terribly interesting, I guess even College thesis have been done on it! 

When I came to this particular review I had to buy the darn thing ....this was so outrageous ... Take a moment to read this>> 

 Horrifyingly Depressing - a Kids review of the Giving Tree 

Then contrast that with this >>>  A beautiful Spiritual Lesson : Review of the The Giving Tree

I kept that book opened on a shelf displayed for a time...when friends would come to visit, I sometimes took it down, curious to get their view... it was a great conversation peice. 

It is amazing in this life... how we can take the same book / idea / belief / anything in life really.....and get such contrasting night & day interpretations from varying people. Just like we see in this thread over Parenting. We don't all see through the same lens. 

I was laughing when reading that kid's review.. .but I could still see where he was coming from ...... but overwhelmingly, the majority saw some form of "unconditional love" in that book. 

Fasinating little read !


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

cory275 said:


> i absolutely hate children. they annoy me to no end. traveling and acheiving goals is way more important to me than poppin out kids.
> 
> you should have discussed the whole kid thing before you got married. but since you didnt.. figure out if its a deal breaker for you or her. otherwise you're just wasting your time


It's refreshing to read another's words and TOTALLY AGREE. To me, having children is a nightmare and I am a horror movie freak so for kids to scare me must be a big deal!!!!

In my situation, I did tell my H I never wanted kids, and HE changed his mind once he slid into depression a couple years ago. Like having a kid would fill some void. Having kids would make him MORE depressed in my opinion.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

LOL, still life scares me! If I come across it in a museum, I am absolutely horrified. The collection of ordinary objects that collect in a common kitchen or dining room afffect me in the most negative, oppressing, depressing, fatalistic way. The fact that they are never painted with dust on them is terrifying. Not only did somebody spend their time painting these things, before that they dusted them, probably repeatedly. That just really really really really creeps me out.

Kids make me feel real, they have a certain way of connecting with me. But then again, I have my breakfast at the school cafeteria, with the elementary school kids. I am about their size, once in a while one of them will put me on the see-saw and that is a lot of fun. Plus, I like to eat dessert first sometimes. And we all agree, be careful, because if you pull the top off the yogurt containers too fast, it will spit at you. The thing I like about kids is that they are invariably themselves. They are messy, without pretense, and they are in touch with their feelings and don't mind communicating them. The best support I got when my boyfriend had his brain hemorrhage was from my kids, and also from the kids who welcomed me at the school cafeteria. They just shoved over and made a place for me. I only explained in very brief detail why I was eating there in the mornings. I think maybe my kids explained in greater detail, but nobody questioned it. I felt secure. It has been an awesome way to start my weekdays. Kids are so accepting of life, they don't experience tragedy the way that adults do. They are more accepting of it. In that respect, I'm probably lucky that my father committed suicide when I was relatively young. I didn't know enough to be more horrified than I was. I love knowing kids. Of course, there are boundaries, but the commonalities of feeling are much greater than you might think. Kids know a lot, and they know what they know intuitively, and even better if nobody has told them that they must be ignorant because of their age. IMO every human being is born knowing what it is that is most important, and adults tend to just take it away from them bit by bit, usually by imposing upon them mandates based on the adult's fears. I prefer to be in the present moment as much as possible with my kids. It is their imaginations and collective consciousnesses that will shape the world we die in.


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

bogey said:


> 'they rob you of your life and your dreams. its nice when they're young but they grow up to be little monsters' he says


They only turn into monsters if you suck at parenting (or if they have a mental illness like autism). 

One of my friends is a single mom, and it looks like she has an easier time raising her son than most _couples_ have. She and her son get along great because it's always very clear who is in charge. Bad behavior is not tolerated at all, so he's a pretty good kid. He knows what the rules are and he follows them. 
It doesn't seem to kill her social life. We still party at her place sometimes. One can play music at any volume and her son will sleep through it.


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## Davi (Apr 20, 2012)

It happens with every parent..you were also a child and it also happened with your parents. so its normal, you shouldn't worry about that.


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## Mrs.K (Apr 12, 2012)

MrsKy said:


> Every child should have a mother like you! :smthumbup:



Unfortunately I am a mother who has buried a child so I have learned to love and appreciate every moment with them. LOL some moments are hard but with every meltdown I remember that one day I am going to miss having them with me when they grow up!


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

"they rob you of your life and your dreams. its nice when they're young but they grow up to be little monsters'

Yes, true, but I never hated them for it. I love them to pieces even when their crying and whining drives me to the point of madness.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Not sure how someone could hate their kids without hating themselves. Our kids are what we make them. If they grow up to be jerks it's because we trained to be jerks or we neglected to teach them a better path. I can understand some folks preferring to not become parents or pet owners but my psycho radar goes off whenever I meet anyone who says they "hate" kids or dogs.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Not sure how someone could hate their kids without hating themselves. Our kids are what we make them. If they grow up to be jerks it's because we trained to be jerks or we neglected to teach them a better path. I can understand some folks preferring to not become parents or pet owners but my psycho radar goes off whenever I meet anyone who says they "hate" kids or dogs.


while I think parenting has a big role in how children turn out I also know its not the end all to beat all I know some really good parents whos children turned out poorly.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

I have 8 kids, ranging in age from 6 to 23. They have run me ragged on a regular basis, have made me mad as hell at times, and have occasionally broken my heart. They've also brought me far more joy than I would have thought possible. Even at the worst times I've never hated them. Made me want to sell them to Gypsies perhaps, but never hate.

But it's like accoustic blues. It ain't for everyone.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

My kids (daughter, age 17 and son, age 14) are the only good result of my marriage. If I could "undo" my marriage my one regret would be losing my kids. As far as "hating" them...No I love them very much. I don't always like them and I've often hated the result of having them has done to my life. "Hate" is a very strong word that I don't like using. I could never see using that in connection with my children. I am currently having problems with my 14 year old son but I feel sadness with regards to him, not hatred or dislike. I love him very much. If I could take his problems and make them my own, I gladly would. 

That said, from the age of 10 on I have really enjoyed having them in my life, especially the past few years. However, their early years I hated with a passion. The whole baby/toddler era was a horror show for me that I would not care to repeat in any way. I had my tubes tied shortly after my second was born and have never regretted that decision. I look at others with younger children and think "Better them than me".

I am really not cut out for younger child rearing for many reasons. The time involved, the lifestyle, and the fact that I'm not really into babies are just a few. 

I love hanging with my teenagers a lot because at heart, I am still a teenager myself! But it's also because they have their own lives and don't demand as much of mine when it comes to time and energy. I can have a somewhat independent lifestyle with my 17 and 14 year old now so that helps a lot. 

Plus, it helps that I am blessed with good kids. . Given a problem child, I don't know how I'd be because I really don't have good parenting skills in many ways. I'm a bit selfish in nature, I'm easily distracted and am not into acting and doing the the things that parents really need to do. I think I can sum it up by saying that I just don't worry too much. It's not that I don't care, I just don't think the way most parents do. 

Looking back, I should've remained single for many reasons. I didn't realize how hard and what a sacrifice both marriage and children are and it just doesn't fit my nature at all. Because of this, I did have to sacrifice my life and dreams, but it wasn't because of the kids. It was because of my own poor choices earlier in life. Now that my kids are older I am looking forward to doing the things I want to do. I only pray that my health holds out so that I can. 

In the end, we all make our own personal choices. My advice is do NOT get roped into something you don't want to do. Go with your guts and innermost feelings and instincts. If you don't want kids, then don't have them, because that's the meanest, most abusive thing you can do to a child..to have one and then obviously not want him/her. They will always know and both your lives will be misery. 

And there is NO doubt about it, children change your life. Don't listen to anyone who tells you that this isn't so. They take time, energy, money, commitment and sacrifice...and to be a good parent it goes on for decades, not just years. If you don't have the least interest in being involved in your children's lives then DO NOT DO IT. To do anything less is an injustice. 

You have to decide if the rewards of child rearing outweigh the sacrifices. It is a choice that you alone can make at this point but once you have children then your choices and decisions are irrelevant. Then it's all about them, if you are a decent person who wants to sleep well at night. 

BTW, I can almost guarantee you that having children WILL change your marriage and your wife too. That's something you need to look at too. Now is the time to make your decisions and sit down and have a long talk and make some hard choices. But better now then after you have children. Then you can never get away from it unless you want to be a deadbeat dad.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

bogey said:


> 'they rob you of your life and your dreams. its nice when they're young but they grow up to be little monsters' he says.


Having my daughter IS my life's dream and she makes my life complete. I've always wanted her and will ALWAYS *love* her. 

Sure I get angry and downright furious at times, but that's only temporary. But then she'll just come up out of nowhere and give me a hug and it just melts my heart. I can't imagine my life w/o her.

Kids are not for everyone, that's for sure. If you do NOT want kids, I suggest you let your wife go so she can find someone that does want to have kids with her. And you find someone that does not. You''ll both be alot happier! JMO!!!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You reap what you sow.

If your children "grow up to be little monsters", that's on you, the parent.

Sucks to be him. I quite like the people I'm raising


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Not sure how someone could hate their kids without hating themselves. Our kids are what we make them.


Welcome to modern society. It's not my fault! Someone else is responsible for this mess!


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

I don't hate my kids but there is some truth to this.



bogey said:


> 'they rob you of your life and your dreams.


We give up a lot for our children and for the first couple of years they're sort of like "things in diapers". Then around age 2 or so they stop crapping their pants, they become responsive to you, they're like real people. For the next 10 years perhaps you'll enjoy quality family time and they'll take on the same interests as you and you'll have fun, sometimes despite your best interests they have no interest in doing anything you like to do.. and at any rate by the time they're 12 or 13 they think you're an idiot and don't want anything to do with you except ask for money and later on the car keys.

Even if things go relatively smoothly they never, ever appreciate what their parents have done for them, it's almost like a sense of entitlement and yes, I'm sure we have done the same to our parents. 

I don't hate my kids; after a rough few years during my divorce, my eldest is back in my life, although my youngest hasn't spoken to me in quite some time- but I do realize I gave up a lot for them and if I was going to do it again, no marriage and no kids.

I'll do a lot more traveling.

And saving.

For early retirement.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> It's never good to do anything out of fear or anxiety about the future.
> 
> A couple days ago I was visiting my guy at his neuro rehabn facility and went into a woman's room to help her because of the situation you describe. Even if you have children, they are not going to be at the nursing home 100% of the time. So obviously therer will be times when only the staff are available to help with toileting, and yes, what you describe might happen, or perhaps the universe will provide someone.
> 
> ...


It was a bit tongue in cheek my comment on having my kids wipe my butt at the nursing home. I honestly do not have any expectation of that for my son. I would like (not expect) that at the end of my time on this earth he, his wife and my grand kids visit me to say goodbye so the last image I see is the faces of the people who I love. Nothing more, nothing less. 

My grandfather went this way and it was a "beautiful death" and its how I would like to go. :smthumbup:


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

ShawnD said:


> They only turn into monsters if you suck at parenting (or if they have a mental illness like autism).
> 
> One of my friends is a single mom, and it looks like she has an easier time raising her son than most _couples_ have. She and her son get along great because it's always very clear who is in charge. Bad behavior is not tolerated at all, so he's a pretty good kid. He knows what the rules are and he follows them.
> It doesn't seem to kill her social life. We still party at her place sometimes. One can play music at any volume and her son will sleep through it.


Exactly. My son was taught from an early age that bad behavior will not be tolerated ever and good bahavior will open the flood gates to rewards. He's caught on to this fact and is a very wel behaved boy. The best thing is that he knows who is boss and that is why so many parents fail today. They want to be friends instead of parents.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I hate my younger son but only because he is exactly like me

Little bastard constantly reminds me of my own foibles


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

ShawnD said:


> Welcome to modern society. It's not my fault! Someone else is responsible for this mess!


Like teachers! It's all the teachers' faults! LOL You wouldn't believe how many parents ask me what to do with their kid. :scratchhead: Um...i dunno...I just teach. YOU are the one who pushed him out.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

For me, I only wanted to be a mom and a teacher so my kids 'robbed' me of nothing 

Sure, we can't go off on long vacations but i didn't even do that when i was childless. lol.


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Like teachers! It's all the teachers' faults! LOL You wouldn't believe how many parents ask me what to do with their kid. :scratchhead: Um...i dunno...I just teach. YOU are the one who pushed him out.


"Have you tried giving him adderall?"
(adderall is prescription amphetamine - it makes math very interesting and fun)




> Sure, we can't go off on long vacations but i didn't even do that when i was childless.


I don't do that either. I find that I go nuts if I stay away from work too long. It seems to work better if I just take 1 day at a time. It's a slow work period and I don't feel like working? Vacation day. The company benefits from this as well. Would they rather I take vacation in summer _at the same time as everyone else_ or is it better to take single days off when there's not much work to do?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Accusing your kid of robbing you is like blaming your boat for your poor financial situation. Kids don't make themselves and boats don't buy themselves. If you're a married guy does it really matter if your life and finances get consumed by two or three small humans or by one adult? It's not like you'd get to keep either.


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