# Looking for Advice from Men Who Cheated On their Wives



## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

This is my second post - for more info, please see my first post http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/38770-want-believe.html#post562353. My husband first started a thread back in December. From the time that he posted his last thread up until Jan 3, he still was in contact w/OW by text/email. 

What I am looking to find out, if you are a husband who cheated on your wife, and seriously considered leaving for the OW, went back and forth and then decided to stay with your wife and work it out, how did you work through it? Did you cope by not talking about it? What were you feeling the whole time you were fixing your marriage? Were you tempted to run when it got tough? Were you able to get over the OW? Were you able to work through it and did your marriage get better than it was before? Thanks! Just looking to see what might be going on in my husbands head.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I went back and skimmed your husbands post, skimmed your first post as well - hope I didn't miss a pertinent detail. Anyway. I had an EA that was very intense. While I never intended to leave my wife I struggled mightily getting over my affair and AP, including multiple violations of NC. Based solely on my own experience here's what I would tell you. 

Truly getting over this OW is going to hurt him - badly. He's going to feel like he's losing the love of his life. He will likely be so love sick it will hurt him physically. It takes a combination of talking about it and just committing yourself to making it through it to really get past it. If he's not talking to you IMO he's not dealing with it - not processing it - he's either still involved in the affair or just wallowing in the memory of it. Until he's talking nothing is happening. I was able to recognize that I truly loved my wife, wanted to be with her and had no intention of leaving. Having realized and accepted that, I was able to make the decision that I would suffer whatever pain I had to as my penance for my affair knowing that eventually it would pass and on the other side I would have the woman I love if I could stand by my promise to let the affair be dead and to help her anyway possible get past what I had done. This is exactly what I did and I'd do it again in a heart beat but I'll tell you I had no idea just how painful it was really going to be. 

Dealing with someone like your H who (based on what I've read) has not been able to realize or accept that you and the marriage are what he really wants I don't know how they make the commitment to themselves to go through that much pain. I think that's why so many times the betrayed spouse has to show the cheater divorce papers to get them to commit. I think the cheater has to really see that they are about to lose it all before they are willing to go through what it takes to end an emotional affair. 

I've told lots of cheaters here that there is no magic rabbit hole out of wonderland - there is no quick way out of this. The only way is one step at a time paying all of the prices that must be paid along the way. The only way you get over it is maintaining no contact and then waiting for the bleeding to stop and the wound to heal. 

To answer your last couple of questions. My wife and I are 17 months post D Day and we are working on what has so far been a very successful reconciliation - she'll even go so far as to say it was worth it. I was never ever tempted to leave for the OW when it go tough. Was I tempted to contact her? Absolutely, but that's why it's called commitment.


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## marriageinprogress (Jul 7, 2011)

I am a wife who cheated and fantasized about leaving my husband but decided to stay and confess everything I had done to try and work everything out. When I decided to stay and wanted a healthy marriage, I knew I couldn't rebuild on lies. With the help of a great IC I was encouraged to tell my husband everything, which I did. I called the OM in front of my husband to tell him that it was over and my husband knew everything and to never contact me again. It was like a break up between me and the OM and it was a process of working out my feelings. I came to realize that everything I felt with this OM was fake. I didn't talk much about the OM to my husband much unless he had a question that I would answer honestly, I did talk to my IC which was very helpful. I wanted to fix my marriage so badly, I wanted to show and prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and that I will spend a lifetime proving to him how much I want my family. I am completely over the OM, it wasn't real what we had. It has been about 7-8 months since the affair and our marriage is getting stronger. My husband was willing to forgive me and I respect and love him so much for that. My husband has access to all my email, facebook, phone, etc to check on me anytime he has an insecurity. I hope that my marriage continues to improve and will be better than ever before. I am still working on forgiving myself, I can't stand to look at myself in the mirror some days knowing what I have done and the hurt I have caused my husband. I hope I was able to help in someway. Good Luck!!


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Thank you both so much. I know that he had love for her, or at least thought he loved her. He told me that and showed that by caring about her feelings more than mine. I know that there will be lingering feelings for awhile, but I truly hope that he means it when he says that he now sees her for what she is. Obviously you can't just shut off feelings, or I would not still be where I am. It was a fast whirlwind romance based on lies by both of them to each other - hope that he realizes that...I am not discounting all that he is probably still going through. I just hope that he will get over her completely and writes this up as a bad learning experience or is already on a safe and successful path to do so. Hard to tell when he says it hurts too much to talk about it. He told me the other night when I asked him a question after not discussing for a week, "I hope this is helping you because it is killing me. I had not thought about her since we last discussed the topic and now I can't help it and I hate it". What do I make of that - does it mean that he is trying to completely block her out, and that he truly cannot deal with it? That he is done and he is hurting so much inside that it hurts him more than I could be hurting?


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

MarriageInProgress - before you saw an IC, were you trying to deal with it on your own and just didn't want to talk about it thinking you would eventually be able to get over it? You said you still feel bed about yourself - I don't want you to dwell on that, but any other info (PM if you would/want) you can give me about how you are feeling may help me understand what he is feeling, and you would be helping someone (me). Did you think you loved the OM and he was your soul mate? Did you make your marriage out to be so much worse than what it really was to justify the affair, and do you know that it was bad? Did you get angry at your husband at first if he asked questions? If so, did you understand why he asked them? If this is too hard, I apologize. I am thankful for your original post. I am trying to work through what he may be feeling/thinking without even really knowing. I know that he now talks about how we should remodel our kitchen and bath, where we should go on vacation, all future stuff....is that his way of coping - to get ideas in his head about us? Oh - he also went out right before Christmas and got a tatoo - this was supposed to be the day that he decided he was staying, even though he was still attached to her, but he made the choice (the date of his last post). It is our names and our wedding date....more of a reminder for him I think - not so much meaning for me at this time. Thoughts on all of this?


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sigma1299 - I should have addressed my last post to you as well. I am happy for you that you and your wife are working through this....gives me hope. Did any of the things I mention hit home (I know you said you did not even think of leaving your wife), but the feelings of guilt, disgust, anger... You seem to have talked to a few people who have been through this on the same end - is this normal behavior for the cheating spouse and does it appear that he really wants to be done with it and is trying to deal with it on his own?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I'll start by saying most of what Marriageinprogress said applies to me. The two things I never did were consider leaving my wife and saying my marriage and wife were anything other than wonderful but I'm atypical in both of those, especially considering the intensity of my EA. 

I started out trying to answer by putting things in the context of your husband and I can't get there so I'm just going to relay to you my experience and hope you can find something that helps. 

When D day dawned my wife forgave me virtually instantly, she didn't give me a get out of jail free card but she did forgive me. It took me much longer to forgive myself. I was one of those people that everyone would have bet would never cheat - ever. I thought that of myself. So when I woke up on the other side of an affair I woke up with a shattered self image - I didn't know who I was or frankly what I was capable of. Pile that on top of the pain and confusion of suddenly breaking off a strong emotional relationship and knowing that person is in agony to, and watching my wife - the woman I love - crying and suffering; I was so confused and tortured I couldn't find my ass with either hand. So I had to start somewhere, like I said my wife and marriage were never questions for me so I had that part easy - I put my effort into them and suffered my pain in penance to them. I then had an honest and frank conversation with myself - how and why did I do what I did and what did it mean? I knew that everyone in life can really F'up and that it's not the falling down that defines us but the standing up. So I applied this to me. I accepted that I had F'd up royally - I took ownership of what I did and accepted the responsibility and prices - to myself (you can't really do this for others until you accept it for yourself). I decided to stand up, say I did it, accept the consequences and put it back together from there. This is the point of genuine remorse and taking full ownership - a point any cheater who really wants to reconcile must get to IMO. This will sound weird but all of what I just described took place in less than 12 hours of my confession to my wife, within 24 hours of confessing everything to my wife I had also met with her and her family and her and my family to confess to them. My wife needed it and I needed it, again it was part of taking ownership and accepting accountability. 

After all of the above I still struggled tremendously with trusting myself and feeling like I really understood myself. I also struggled with putting my AP and the affair behind me. It was all still a big tangled mess inside me. That was very much exacerbated by my AP sending me repeated emails telling me what a SOB I was and how her heart was breaking. It was hard to hear and I should have closed email accounts and changed cell phone numbers to shut it down but I didn't. Like I said the fact that the relationship is illicit doesn't make it any easier to turn off an emotional connection. I wound up in a place where I couldn't let go of it all, it's actually what led me here. D Day was 8/2010 - I came here 5/2011 so you can see how long I was struggling. There's a link in my signature to my first thread if you want more detail. Anyway, the biggest reason I couldn't let it go is that I hadn't resolved what in me had allowed me to do what I did. I was convinced that I just made a bad mistake, that there was no underlying reason and that was it. With the help of the people here I came to understand there was much more to it than that. That I had issues inside of me that made me susceptible. I came to terms with those and since have been able to largely put it all behind me since then. 

Ultimately I couldn't get over the OW or the affair until I made peace with myself. I forgave myself pretty quickly, in the first month at the most; but it took me over a year to really make peace with myself - you see I betrayed me as much as much as I betrayed my wife and I couldn't have peace until I worked it all the way through. Understand that doesn't mean that I wasn't committed to or deeply in love with my wife the whole year - I was but I still had a demon in me that I had to slay before I could really let it all go.

The statistic is that it takes 2 - 5 years to fully get over infidelity. Most people only think of the betrayed spouse when they cite that. I think it applies just as much to the cheater. I can't tell you what is going on inside your H's heart and mind. What I can tell you is that this stuff is hard to get past - for both of you. He will put his efforts in the direction of what he really wants. If he is really taking ownership. If he's willing to admit what he did, own it and accept the consequences. If he is truly remorseful. If he is those things then it will be apparent and despite his struggles and pain I'd say he's really committed to the marriage. If those things aren't apparent, I'd say it's still a question mark. Regardless, pay more attention to what he does, what he says is of much less significance. Sorry for the long response - I can get long winded when I start on this stuff. Hope that helps at least a little.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Thank you! I read your original post, and a lot makes sense. I know some of the situation is different, but I think that comes from the person you are. I still can't wrap my mind around it - may never be able to. He knows what the right thing to do is, I just want to know that the right thing is also also the thing that he in his heart wants to do and is willing to take the struggles that come with it. I get a text from him every morning that says I love you...does he mean it or does he know I want to hear it? It is a start - I hope that it is true and that eventually his whole heart can once again belong to me and our family. Right now I know there is a piece still missing - whether it is still with her or whether he is unable to fully give it back yet, I don't know.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sigma1299 - please take a look at my last post on my other thread and let me know what you think (about the goodbye and email to me)
... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/38770-want-believe.html

I appreciate your honesty.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I think that email was great - how long ago did he send it? Any contact from her to you or him since then? My $.02 on where he is is this. I think he wants you and the marriage and I think he's making a decision to commit to it much like I did. I also think he's still really struggling inside with many of the things I did and won't be able to really move past it until he fully deals with it. You've heard the term "rug sweeping" here? I didn't want to rug sweep my affair out of our marriage - I wanted to deal with it together. But, I did rug sweep it internally and it wasn't until I drug it back out and really understood it that I made peace with it for me. I think he's in much the same place - but I could just be assigning my experiences to him?? 

In large measure I was so worried about helping my wife and putting her back together that I neglected myself for several months assuming I could "just handle it." Turns out I couldn't and wound up here. I know soldiers have a tendency to be non communicative and internalize things - maybe he can manage it alone - maybe he can't. The bottom line though is that he cheated, you want to talk about it, and it's on him to do what you need to rebuild the marriage - it doesn't matter if it makes him uncomfortable to talk about it - that's just part of the price he's got to pay. If you need it - he owes it to you.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

That email was sent on January 3rd. So 3 weeks to the day. I still have doubts, but what worries me a great deal is that he is shutting down and sweeping it, like he did after his dad passed. He did not deal with that well. Anything else we can talk about, but there are awkward moments. Then there are moments like nothing ever happened, especially when we are doing something with our children. Last night we had our first playful moment and I felt like he honostly laughed for the first time in a long time - even before the affair. I suggested this past weekend that if we are having a bad day, or one of us senses sonething of the other that we let each other know that we are just having a hard time right then - not that we would have to talk about it, but just so that the other person is aware that some feelings are being dealt with. He said OK, but not sure that he will. We constantly ask each other if we are doing ok, and we both say yes. I say I am fine and just tired because I know he doesn't want to hear that my mind is being flooded with sadness, but I know he knows...I figure that is enough, and most of the time I don't want to talk about it right then and I don't want to make it obvious around our children.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

And as far as I know, there has been no more contact. He swears that hasn't been...but even if she contacted him somehow, I am not sure he would tell me, even though I told him that if we never spoke of this again, he needed to at least give me the respect to let me know that contact has been made, either on her part (so we can nip it in the bud together) or on his part. I have not seen any, and he has since deleted the email aco****, but I know he could always create a new account. So I want to believe, but there is always a chance.


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## marriageinprogress (Jul 7, 2011)

LookingForTheSun - I was actually seeing an IC before the EA and then PA happened. I was unhappy in my marriage and trying to find a way to fix it but I was spiraling out of control fast. My husband didn’t see that anything was wrong even though I tried expressing my feeling to him. My husband and I were soooo disconnect that I couldn’t talk to him on a deep level; I didn’t feel he understood me or even wanted to listen. My IC was somebody that had to keep all my thoughts, problems, feelings confidential and I trusted him to do that. He also encouraged me to do the right thing. I didn’t tell my IC that in turned into a PA until it was almost over in because I was ashamed, embarrassed and I wasn’t ready to stop the affair. I love counseling, call me weak but I need someone I trust to help me work out my struggles and give me that extra motivation. I don’t feel comfortable confiding in a friend and I have a hard time trusting people. I let my husband ask as many questions as he needed to so he could also start his process of healing. I don’t think that you and your husband should keep quiet about it, talking about it know matter how uncomfortable is part of the healing process. I would hate for you to still be wondering about certain answers to your questions years from now. If you guys are going to heal properly from this you need to have some uncomfortable talks. Our experience is that I don’t have a good explanation for what I did, there is know excuses and my husband with the advice from an IC had to accept that. 
I wasn’t sure if I “loved” the OM, I had strong feelings and felt that he accepted me for who I was. I felt we had a lot in common, got along really well, and he really cared/ “loved” me. I did complain a lot about my marriage, I was being very selfish. I was trying to justify my affair but feeling that my husband was never going to understand and accept me. I knew what I was doing was wrong but I was so hooked on the high the affair was giving me that I suppressed the guilt. I did get angry with my husband but had to let that go, I was on the hot seat and it was uncomfortable but I had to face what I did if I wanted any chance of fixing my marriage. I think your husband is trying focus on the future instead of dealing with the present because it is hard for him if he is truly remorseful. I cried more during that time in my life more than I ever had. I was so ashamed, how could I betray my husband, the father of my children, I am far from perfect and yet I complained so much about my marriage! 
The whole situation really turns the world upside down for a while. Nobody deserves to feel the pain of betrayal. I am truly sorry that you are going through this. I hope you and your husband can get MC and work through this. Like anything tragic, it’s sooo hard at the begining but overtime and the commitment of wanting to heal it does get a little better. My husband is doing great, he loves and forgives me. I am sure he has his moments that thoughts come into his head but he does a great job shaking them off. I have NO contact with the OM and my husband checks my cell bill to make sure of that. I have don’t have any temptations to contact the OM. He is something of the past that I wish I could clear my mind of him. I am very hard on myself and deal with the thoughts that I am an unfaithful woman. I feel like I gave apart of me away and I can never get it back. I still am seeing an IC counselor to continue to work on myself and be a better wife for my husband. 

Sorry if my thoughts are all over, I like to ramble! I hope I was able to help some how.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

marriage inprogress - thank you for sharing. So he could be dealing with this ghost for a long time even if we are on the road to recovery? I don't wish him ill, even though he has turned my life upside down. I have my moments, I just want him to communicate with me. Communication is key - that is what got us to this point - lack of.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

marriageinprogress said:


> I feel like I gave apart of me away and I can never get it back.


Every remorseful cheater here will tell you that exact same thing. Cheating takes something from you that once gone, you can never find again. In some measure he will be dealing with it for the rest of his life. It should get much much better, but for better or worse it's a part of him now for the remainder of his days.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> MarriageInProgress
> Oh - he also went out right before Christmas and got a tatoo - this was supposed to be the day that he decided he was staying, even though he was still attached to her, but he made the choice (the date of his last post). It is our names and our wedding date....more of a reminder for him I think - not so much meaning for me at this time. Thoughts on all of this?


Haha this made me almost laugh out loud. How similar we are Looking! My man came back with a tattoo in Oct. 5 months after I found out...and still very rocky. My name tattooed on his arm! He is not the type.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Well - pointed out tonight that car was sitting in front of house and took off when I went to get mail...that blew up into a mess. We talked about stuff that was very uncomfortable - found out stuff I already knew but also found out that songs that he plays all of the time recently are about me and not her...that was a big Yeah for me, but he forgot to mention that, so everytime I heard them I was dying inside. I took the plunge and asked him what his trigger points were, since I know that there are things that will make him think of her. I got a song, which I pretty much knew, and where they went when she was in town - he said they went to walmart - do I want to stop going to walmart, and I said no, because I was there first with him. He was very defensive, angry, and knocked some stuff around and in the end ended up getting drunk. I know he is haviing a hard time with this - asked what I could do to make him understand what I was feeling. I told him to think of his dad dying, him grieving, and me blowiing him off and telling him that it was no big deal...other than that, I could not even begin to think of what might hurt him the way I am hurting other than do this to him, but I would not want him to feel what I am, so that would not happen. He said that the only way I could understand what he is feeling is to go in the closet, take the gun, load a magazine in it, hold it to my head, and then put it back and just live with it. Any other wayward spouses ever feel this or any loyal spouses ever deal with the WS saying such things? At another point, he was angry - angry all the way through it, hence grabbing another beer - he said, "you know what, I will tell you one thing she told me that is true. She said if you took me back it would never be the same." I felt every emotion in the book right then and there. I almost exploded. I told him that he was defendiing her and her opinions once again, and that if wanted to buy into everything that she sold him on that he might as well go right back to her now. Then I said that it won't ever be the same and that it should not be the same and that it should be better. I came clean to him that when she tried to get in touch with me last it was through email. I guess I was afraid to post that because I was afraid he might read this thread at some point. I knew a lot - he wanted proof (she told him him that she had nevr tried to contact me and that I was a liar - I saw no need to defend myself at any point to him), and that was the night that he wrote his last goodbye email. So, instead of just trying to get in touch with me, she did - with details (I did not respond back), adn to prove it to him, I receited about 10 min worth of email conversation between the 2. I was POd that he thought I was lying - felt like he was siding with her adn beliving her BS all over again. I felt like he put a knife in my back - but I gave him what he wanted. I told him that we did not have to be like this - that it all started over my concern for a car parked out front of our house. After I told him about the emails, I said, "Now do you see why I am on high alert? I don't care about details. I already know enough. I care about now and our future. I know how evil and manipulative she is, and I tried to point that out in the beginning, but you could not see it because you were addicted and you certainly would not take my word for it because I was the one you were trying to run from." He kept telling me to just stop talkiing and leave him alone, and I told him no and that I was tired of him dictating when and what we could talk about, so he flew off again and said "you want to know details? I will tell you details. I will tell you anything you want to know because I was there!" I know he was angry and hurt, but so was I. I din't want to hurt him anymore, but I also did not want to have to do this again another time and ruin another night. I told him the only things I cared to know are where his head is at...that I wonder everyday how he is coping. I also wonder and pray that the last day of hearing from the OW is done. He said that he was nowhere, and that he has no place. This made me angry and sad. I told him he always had a place with me and our girls before. I asked him what he wanted and he said that he just wanted to give me and our girls what we deserve and have a happy life. During this whole arguement he also said a few times that it felt like we were back at day one. I told him that it was only because he kept sweeping it under the rug and we never really dealt with it and that I was on eggshells and did not feel like I could truly talk about it. That is why we were haivng this argument and then he said no, we were having the argument because I was keeping my feelings inside and not talking about it...WTF. OK - so I knew he had a pretty good buzz...the he was asking if I was acting differently because of thinsg she told me. I told her that I never talked to her, and I didn't. all I had was the emails. I asked him like what - ok - here goes...breat implants. Yep, I made an appt to have breast implants. Why? I have been wanting to ever since I had my last daughter. I just could not see spending that kind of money on anything other than our house or our girls. Well, that all changed. I decided that I was going to focus on me and do something that I wanted to do. I know emotionally I am going through a lot right now, but I told him (and I told him before all of this) that the next big purchase we make was going to be on me for that. Well, no time like the present. And I also told him that I decided that whether I am with him or somone else in the future, I was not going to have any hangups about myslef. He aske dif I decided to do it because now I have the money - I could have stabbed him in the back - I mean, seriously? I could not contain myself and told him that she was the gold digger not me. She was the one who did not work and mooched off of men to get what she wanted. I told him that he was an ass and that I was buying them for myself. What a sh**head. I make my own money, I don't need his. I was POd again. Then I asked him what else he menat when he asked if I was doing things based on what she said. I had not a clue...like what. Like sex things he said - what?!?! OK, so no, I do not know details of that, nor do I care to, but I had no clue what he was talking about...NOTHING that we have done is anything that we haven't done or said before, other than the frequency. He would not say anything else...I still have not a clue and it bugs the heck out of me...I guess he just forgot what we used to do and only remembers them...I don't know. I had to remind him of how we used to be - very often - very intense...and when we did get intimate (even long dry spells) it was intense. Guess he just forgot. So, now I am left with wanting to know what amd i doing so different or that he thinks I am doing different. I am sure there must b some things I am not aware of. I told him that I probably am differnt - my world was turned upside down, I was thrown under a bus, by ego and pride was destroyed....so yep, guess I might seem a bit different. BUT, I pointed out that we should both be different people now - better. So what did we get out of this? I found out that not every new song is about her, but instead me. I found out what some of his triggers are. He found out about the emails and why I feel like I do - although he still can't understand it because he "knows for a fact" that she will never come out here. Sorry - maybe he can feel certain, but I can't, and I told him that only time and peace will convince me. So then he said he wanted more beer. I told him he could not drive, he said he was going to walk. I told him I would take him if hat is what he really needed. So, I got my 3 year old (oldest is at a sleepover), put her in the car and drove to the gas station. Daughter wants a hotdog, so I tell dad to get her a hotdog...she is happy, I put my hand on his leg in the car (after our daughter breaks the ice with her laugh and smile and "thank-you Daddy", he hold my hand, we drive home, put daughter to bed, he takes 2 beers upstairs and falls aslep before he even gets to drink them...told him to go to bed since I have to work tomorrow and I need him to watch the girls, so he is asleep and I am getting the whole night off my chest. Sorry such the long post. So how will things be tomorrow? I feel like we made some progress even though he does not. I told him about some of you fine folks and your stories on here and he said if it helped me, fine, but that he didn't care what anyone in his position said because they were just as low as he was and did what he did and there was no excuse. I told him that I sought out advice so I could understand him better since he did not talk. Any WS act anything like this? Anyone else think we made any progress? I know I finally stood up - something I have been wanting to do...not to hurt, but for my own sanity.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

OK - just read my own post. First, sorry about the spelling. I was typing fast - as fast as my mind was racing. Also, the thing about the gun - he meant that of himself - not me. That that is how he feels. I would never consider that. I like me and I have way too much to live for. I don't belive he is suicidal, but it bothers me that he would even use that as a a comparison.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Here I am 5 hours later, after about 3 hours of sleep. I woke up with my heart racing and all of the things that WS said last night that felt like stabs running through my head about 100 miles and hour. Do I want to start the day off discussing everything again - no, but things he said really hurt me. I can't even really collect my thoughts right now - I feel hurt, disgusted and numb. My biggest questions are still how he is doing on a day to day basis, wanting to know if the OW ever rears her evil horns again, and can he identify and promise that this will never happen again. My new questions are why did he say the things he said last night, intoxicated or not, did he ever really think things could go back to the way they were and did he really want them to. I thought (and the best way to handle things) that by identifying gaps in your marriage and then working on them you would understand each others needs and make things different so that your marriage worked. Also, I really want to tell him this - on several occasions, he said that he wanted to be the man that I married - hell no! I don't want the man I married because he has been a liar and a cheat. I want a new man who can identify his faults and weaknesses and keep the lines of communication open and let me know when he feels we need to switch it up and will allow me to do the same. I want a man that is true to his word, from this day forward, foresaking all others as long as we both shall live. That is the man that I want and that is the only man I can be with, and that is what I want in him. I want a man who will tell me his deepest, darkest secrets, one who will confide in me, one who will support me and catch me when I fall, no matter from what, no matter how much it will hurt him. I want a man who can look me in the eyes stare into my soul and connect with me. I want a man who appreciates who I am, what I have done, my strengths, my drive, my wit and my mind. I want a man that can accept my faults and help me to be a better person. I want my husband to be all of those things. Throughout different times in our marriage he has been all of those men. I need him to be all that right now and forever. I know we have a long road ahead of us. I am willing to walk it if I have to, but what the hell next? I know he does not know me like he should. He does not know my strength or my character. He does not know all of my wants, desires, and obviously intimately...maybe that is a good thing. That is something he can build on. Newness - honey it is all there - you were just unwilling to work, look or fight for it. Dear God - please give me the strength to not blow up today.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I hate to say it but I'm at something of a loss. You know my first reaction would be to say that he's not genuinely remorseful - but for some reason I don't think that's the case. I think he definitely needs to get IC - pronto. The whole gun thing is worrisome, it could be construed as emotionally manipulating you to get you to drop it. 

I do have two questions, if you already answered my apologies but I don't have time to reread everything. 1. Have you forgiven him? 2. If you have - have you told him? If the answer to 1. is yes and 2. is no - it might make a difference if you sit him down and tell him and explain to him why. Being forgiven by the person you betrayed does two things IMO. One it gives you permission to let go of guilt and start to forgive yourself (note guilt and remorse are not the same thing), and two it creates a obligation in the one forgiven to pull themselves together. After all, if the one betrayed can forgive you, do you really have any right to indulge yourself in wallowing and self pity?

Bottom line he's more focused on him than you and that's not good - I'm not sure what to tell you to do about it though. Assuming mine was one of the stories you told him about tell him this. He's right that he and I committed the same transgression - suffered the same failing. But he's wrong that I'm just as low as he is. I have busted my ass to do everything I could to rebuild my wife and my marriage, so far he has not done the same - at least IMO. Tell him it's not the falling down that defines us, but the standing back up and righting our wrongs that does. 

Don't back up from a fight if you need something. Don't let him intimidate you into rug sweeping. Good Luck.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Can someone please tell me what IMO is please?
Thanks.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

In My Opinion

In My Humble Opinion
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Sigma, I have read your post and I do believe u are beating yourself up bad for something that was very shortlived and not physical. You were honest with your wife the moment it got out of hand and have done all the right things, from what u say, to put it all right. you stopped before it really started. We all love to be flattered, you took the flattering too far, and stopped short as soon as you went over the boundary of innocent chat and flirty banter. Of course you did wrong, but there was no meeting, no physical contact etc. I don't know the extent of your flirtations, it sounds like it went way past the boundary so far as she was concerned and as far as the fact you are having difficulty removing her from your thoughts. I think when you feel strongly for someone other than your spouse it is because there is passion missing from your marriage - isn't that just normal though for a long relationship - and because you were flattered. It is a great feeling to be adored no matter who is doing the adoring. It just went too far. I think your wife is lucky to have someone who is so honest and who stopped before it went too far. And someone who does all the right things to repair. She is very lucky.

Looking, you are just in total turmoil. You sound exactly as I have been, for quite some time. I am not married, & don't have kids with my man, so there is less pressure for me to stay. Less reason to make a go of it no matter what (though I do feel more for him than I ever felt for anyone before). I warn you though, if you are anything like me, if he doesn't start helping you in the way he should then given some time you may end up getting the point where you feel you have done all you can to get past it all, pointed out to him what he must do, pleaded, tried different things, and for him to remain closed. In which case, moving on and breaking up the family will seem like the better option than a future of turmoil, uncertainty, upset, unhappy...and so on. This is all based on BTW what I have read of your situation, & my own. So none, some, more may be applicable, or not. I am now 8-9 months after finding out and still I feel he hasn't opened up to me properly. I have answered your last thread so may be repeating odd bits. apologies. I now feel I have pretty much done all I can. I now feel more and more that I can't continue this way. I have felt this frequently anyway, broke up with him several days here & there, not long enough probably. But I feel I am really getting to the end of the rd. I feel we are clinging on by threads at the moment. I feel my love fading. He has made a lot of effort in certain areas, but not given all I need. And so I think it is the end of the line. Not long now. Only a few more efforts left in me I believe. And once the love is gone, that is it. There will be no turning back for me. Even though I have tried to tell him, I don't think he truly believes the closeness of the exit to what is us. I think he believes if he shows me enough love then he can ignore the rest. Sweep the difficult stuff & just get on with the love. Well, the love don't mean nothing if I don't believe it does it. If I don't believe him. If he is not giving me his all & continues to leave me guessing about so much. I don't know if this is where you are heading, if your situation & man are as similar to mine as I think. But I found something yest that I hope, once my man has read it, will help him to understand what is necessary and what I need. I thought of it as I read your thread. Your turmoil is so very evident in what you write and the way you write. You sound like I was, am, just want someone to tell you all the answers, where's that crystal ball! And the only reason you are looking elsewhere for your answers is because you are not getting them from the person who does have them all. Same reason I am here. I wanted someone to give me all the answers. I don't get them off the one person who has them. How cruel. But no-one outside does have them. Advice...good and bad...but no answers. Even your friends who know u. Know him. Only he knows the answers to your questions, and only you know the best way you should deal with them, once you have them. 

The post is by 'Almost Recovered' and is the 2nd one down. The 1st refers to terms and abbreviations used on this site. There is also a useful white box near the bottom of the first post that gives examples of reconcilliatory behaviour, and rug sweeping behaviour. The 2nd post, a good way down the page, describes almost perfectly the emotions we go through as a betrayed partner, and the things they have to do in order to minimise the damage. It is just spot on. I am going to get my man to read it tomor or Weds when I see him, try and get him there, again, where I need him to be. He will prob read it...but with disdain. After that, I will be even closer to leaving if it makes no difference. and that may be a step too far, as there are very few steps left. He does do a lot of things to make me believe he is dedicated to me. But he won't deal with the issues, the proper ones, the big ones, with me properly. He steps on the road, walks, and then turns back again. I just want him to talk to me without fear of ME (!) ruining an evening, a weekend. I want to chat, and then it is over. The more I chat, the less I need to. But I am still in turmoil because of the lack of chat. The lack of openness. I believe while you do not know, while your questions & issues remain in your head, you will remain in turmoil. He is not helping you. He is leaving you strapped to that fiery wheel in hell, eternally turning with no way out. I don't mean to be over dramatic, but how can issues be resolved if they can't be chatted about. Until they are gone. How can the pain go if it remains in your head with no outlet. He needs to be your shoulder to cry on and your outlet for anger and love and questions and chat and so on. The link is:


talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html 



For waywards wishing to help their betrayed spouses to 

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.



A great post. Very good. It must come from some marriage guidance stuff or something, it is not just written opinion. Therefore, spot on without the crappy emotional baggage. Objective.

And so spot on.


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## ashamed74 (Jan 30, 2012)

marriageinprogress said:


> I am a wife who cheated and fantasized about leaving my husband but decided to stay and confess everything I had done to try and work everything out. When I decided to stay and wanted a healthy marriage, I knew I couldn't rebuild on lies. With the help of a great IC I was encouraged to tell my husband everything, which I did. I called the OM in front of my husband to tell him that it was over and my husband knew everything and to never contact me again. It was like a break up between me and the OM and it was a process of working out my feelings. I came to realize that everything I felt with this OM was fake. I didn't talk much about the OM to my husband much unless he had a question that I would answer honestly, I did talk to my IC which was very helpful. I wanted to fix my marriage so badly, I wanted to show and prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and that I will spend a lifetime proving to him how much I want my family. I am completely over the OM, it wasn't real what we had. It has been about 7-8 months since the affair and our marriage is getting stronger. My husband was willing to forgive me and I respect and love him so much for that. My husband has access to all my email, facebook, phone, etc to check on me anytime he has an insecurity. I hope that my marriage continues to improve and will be better than ever before. I am still working on forgiving myself, I can't stand to look at myself in the mirror some days knowing what I have done and the hurt I have caused my husband. I hope I was able to help in someway. Good Luck!!



My hats off to you for making the best choice of chosing your family. It's a great story and where me and my wife are heading.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

It has been almost a month since my last post. I still have triggers, sometimes a trigger is just my own mind wandering, so it helps to keep busy. I have been going through a range of emotions, I think my current opne is anger. I hide it pretty well, and deal with it pretty well. I am trying really hard to keep this marriage in tact, and I believe WS is too. He is dealing with his own demons - listens to a lot of music that has to do with self loathing, anger, regret, and sometimes I find one about a girl and how he was drawn in and then detroyed. I think he is trying to do the right thing. I think he wants to be here, but still has torn feelings. We don't really talk about it. I am tired of the drama and arguements that follow when we do. He told me the other day that he loved me because of the way I made him feel as he watched me sleep - that I looked happy and at peace. I am emotionally exhausted. Sometimes I feel like my heart is not in it, but I keep going because I know us as a couple and us as a family is what I want, but it is hard to look past sometimes and wonder how he could have just turned on me and treated me like I was nothing. I am giving all I can, adn sometimes more I think. I read that you have to act the part first, and the more you do, the more you will feel the part. My heart is still broke. I told him I forgive him so he can begin to move forward to. I told him that he needed to stop feeling sorry for himself and that he needed to find a way to deal with it so we can move on. He still keeps everything inside, but he has warmed up to me. There are days that I still hate him, moments that I love him, and times when I feel indifferent. We were great once. Every couple we knew wanted what we had....then he screwed up. I wonder if our downslide all began the first time he cheated...maybe he became a differnt person then. I told him that I did not want that person I married any more and that if he could not be faithful to leave now. I told him I could not have my heart broken again. It is still broken...can he be the one to heal it? It still feels awkward sometimes, even doing family things. Is that normal and can it eventually lead to a recovery? We went away this weekend with our girls....i broke down just a few seconds. He asked me what was wrong and I told him because it felt like we never skipped a beat and that we were doing what we always did. It was a good thing - I just wished he would have remembered about all of those times 5 months ago.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I think what you are going through is way more normal than not.

You told him that your forgave him, but did you really forgive him?

Are the two of you in MC?


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

We are not in MC - he is trying to deal with this on his own and has not talked to anyone besides me. I know that he never would go...more because he can't deal with sharing what he did than for not wanting to help us. Do I forgive him - yes - I had to so I could start to move on and work on rebuilding our marriage. It is what I want. Kind of like you had mentioned before when you said you forgave yourself but you will never forget - I feel that way. It will always be there, and I have accepted that. I think he is trying hard, but there are times when I know he is not focused...that he still has triggers to. I still cannot understand it. I am not in denial, but the gravity, suddenness and severity of it are so hard for me to understand. A couple of weeks ago we had an argument - he asked me what else he could do to fix things, to do and say the right things. I told him to "read the book", How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. This is a book I bought a couple of weeks after DD, and asked him to read it on several occasions so that he could know what I was feeling without me having to tell him and him getting mad. He finally did, and I know it hurt him - he could finally "hear" from someone else just what I was feeling, why I was acting like I was, and what he needed to do if he wanted to fix us. I think it helped some - gave him some understanding. I told him that a good part of that no longer applied, as I was past the affair. Now I am focused on us and our ability to move forward. I told him that he was the one holding us back now. I told him I understood he was going through feelings of his own, but he needed to find a way to get past the affair and turn his focus to us...that I could not and would not do it alone. Then for Valentine's day - flowers, chocolates, jewelry, and a note he wrote in place of a card - that he could not find a card from jackass husbands to great wives...this is what he wrote: Well, I looked for a card for some time and not too many say from a jackass husband to a great wife. So I decided to write you this note. I hope it reads how I feel. I want to spend my life being the hussbnad that you have deserved to have these last 15 years. I believe I have been at times the kind of man you deserve, but not enough to matter in the end. One thing has always been true, that I would hae given my life at any moment to save yours and protect you. Unfortunately, I was the one who was hurting you and for that I apologize to you for not being a true husband. We have two very beautiful daughters and a picture perfect family from the outside looking in. I promise to recreate that family on the inside for us. I will give you the best I can give and if that should not be enough I'll find a way to offer more. I fell in love with you a long time ago and we had something very special that I would love for us to say we still have it. (Then he wrote this) Always - I used to ask, what did I do wrong? Now I ask myself, what have I done right? A husband I've not been, A friend I've not been, A man I've not been, So who or what am I? I'm the person you have been with that lost his way. I'm the person that despite all of his flaws loves you and will...always!

Your thoughts? Is he closer to getting over OW/affair than not? Is his heart really in it, or is he playing the part to get there? I want to believe that he is feeling the love he says he has for me. I know it is different. I know there is more at play than just us. There is a big dark cloud that looms over us. I have moved myself as far away from it as I can. My focus is on rebuilding, getting to know each other again (because I don't think he really knows me - he told me that he used to think I was hard headed, but know he knows that I am just strong). I tried to ask him about him and what he wants in life, what he wants to do (which was difficult - I tried to skirt around what made him feel so great and what he dreamed/hoped to do) when he was with her. That was a disaster. He told me that he did not know what he wanted and that his head has not been straight for months...that was a bad night. It was after that that I stopped any refernce to that time whatsoever, but I did tell him that there would be times in our lives that things would come up that may refernce that time and that we would just have to learn to deal with them. the key word being WE. So, we are making plans for vacations, he wants his mother to come and visit us over spring break (I know that he needs to make amends with her, so I see that as a good sign). We are intimate, and we do tell each other we love each other....some times it is just better than others and sometimes it is just awkward.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I guess my biggest concern is, is his recovery more now for the pain and hurt he caused, to me and himslef, or because he is still torn about the OW? Your thoughts?


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Remains - are you still out there? How are you doing these days?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Looking - I've started and wiped out a response at least three times because I can't find one I think constructive - I can only imagine your level of frustration. 

Ultimately it's hard, if not impossible, for anyone other than him to know if his heart is really in it or if he's faking it until he makes it. Some of my standard advice to betrayed spouses is to listen to the actions of your wayward spouse, cheaters lie, their actions will give you a much better picture of where he really is. So what do his actions tell you?

It takes a while to really deal with this - years. You both have to accept and understand that the marriage you had before his affair is gone and it's not coming back. You can have a new one, even a better one, but the old one is gone. I suspect you understand that - do you think he does?

I'm as proud as any man, and I hate to ask for help just as much. If memory serves you've read my story and are familiar with how much i wanted to talk about my affair with my wife, how willing I was to be open with her. We talked and talked and talked about my affair - still do. But it wasn't enough for me - I still ultimately had to get help from someone outside my family for the first time in my life. It's how and why I found this site. The help I got here was enough, but had it not been my next step was counseling and I was prepared to follow through with it. He needs to talk to someone so he can come to understand what he did and why - if he doesn't it could very well eat him, you and the marriage. I'm not sure how you get him to see and accept that though. You can't force him to get help because it won't do any good if he's not open to it.


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

For me, one of the worst parts of being cheated on was the "why". 

Why?
Why?
Why?

The answer is the same for every person who has ever cheated on another. The answer is the same regardless of the state of the marriage/relationship. The answer is the same whether the cheater is regretful or not regretful. The answer is also a very simple one.

A person cheats because they want to.

Stop looking for answers or reasons or things you could have done differently...it has little if nothing to do with you. In this regard, it is all about the cheater.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Falene - I am not thinking of what I could have done differently, and I am not beating myself up for it. I know I did nothing wrong and I pointed out to him month after month that we needed to work on things between us. I am angry at him for what he did for a cheap thrill to us and our family - to me and for not giving me a choice and for not giving us a chance or him putting forth the effort to fix us before he ever got that far. If I come across as angry, I am. He was weak. Period. It is all on him. He was caught up in lust and nothing else mattered. He thought he knew what he was doing and it blew up in his face. Why? He is selfish, weak and stupid. He has a long road to walk to redeem himself, but I made the decision to walk beside him. I am still going through every emotion there is. It has not been easy, especially controlling emotions around our children. I am better mentally and emotionally now more than I was even month ago, but I know that this will take a lot of time to work through. All of this pain and distrust, all for what...hindsight.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sigma - I always appreciate your input. I never had any doubts that our marriage would not be the same, and frankly, I don't want it to. I would have preferred years of counseling or even a year or two in a coma over having to deal with the fallout and rebuilding that is now before us. It will always be there, but if he can really commit to us and have his heart in it, I do believe we can one day be very happy again. What I feel - I think that he is partly going through the motions and faking it until he makes it. I know he loves me, but I don't think he is in love with me. I know there are times that he is in lust with me (sorry if that is too personal), but I know the difference. I will need much more than that in the near future in order for me to continue giving all that I can and acting like I am OK. I think he still thinks about her, but that he is angry with himself that he was not stronger and that he basically made a mess of his life. He is in his own world of pain, and I just don't know how he is dealing with it. Life is pretty much normal. We do much the same as we did before, but have been spending more time together and planning trips with and without our children...the first without so we can spend time with just us. We have both been unproductive to our jobs the last few months and it has not gone unnoticed. We know we both need to kick it in high gear - that is another thing that I am angry about. I was always at the top of my game with work and this knocked me back so far. Had i not told my boss what was happening, I my have been let go. I told him that we need to work hard so we can play hard. I am back about 70 percent...I am still struggling sometimes. Mondays are always the hardest for me. I work from home, and the house is quiet and I am alone after a weekend of spending time together. Just the silence is a trigger. Then other days I am pretty much OK, minus the occasional flash that I quickly lock away. His actions - he is making an effort, but is still him. He reacts the same he always has - angry - more at himself than me, but it still effects me. He is trying to do the right thing by me and our girls. I know he now knows how good we and he have it. We had a great family - and he blew it. I just hope that the more time goes by, the more he will be able to let go of what happened, and /or her if he still has feelings. He too jumped on this message board for help. That is all he has done as far as sharing with anyone outside of us. His mom and sister know, but they do not talk about it. I don't believe he will ever seek out any other help. Part of him thinks that if we don't talk about it then we are doing OK - or at least he thinks he is. Part of that is true. Who wants to relive something like that. I wish I never had to the first time. Do I still have questions - yes - but any answer I get will not change the outcome, and any discussion will only bring this sludge to the surface again, and I am tired of it myself and don't want it anymore. Again, I want to believe. I am hopeful, but I still have my guard up. I hope this will all change in time. It still has not been that long (2.5 months since DD).


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

At right at 2.5 months is when I convinced my wife that some portion of my pain was because I felt guilt that the OW was devastated and that if I could reestablish contact and get closure with her that it would do a lot to help me. Did I mention I'm a pretty good salesman? Anyway she agreed as long as there were no phone calls and she could read it all. So I did, we did not rekindle the affair but only because I refused to reciprocate, when I didn't it naturally blew up. My wife read every word of it. 

My point is that at about the same point you're at I was sideways enough to believe the above would help me and was a good idea. This despite my wholehearted belief and profession of truly loving my wife and wanting to be married to her. 

If the EA was intense it can take a while to successfully extract your head from your ass. That doesn't mean you should cut him any slack, just don't automatically assume a prolonged period of him being screwed up is terminal or means your really second choice.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I wish I knew. I want to know, but there is a part of me that doesn't. Supposedly he was "letting go" slowly 3 weeks after DD. When he was telling me he loved me but started talking to her again and telling her that he missed her and he wished they could be friends but knew that was not an option. I think he was setting himself back up for failure again and I do not think he could not have gotten this far without the angry break that happened. That was after she had contacted me by email while they were talking. That final goodbye (that he swears was the last contact), was on Jan 3. I want to believe there has been no other contact. I don't think there is now, but it is hard for me to believe that there was not right after. I have his email passwords. We now share a facebook account with only about 8 friends and really don't even use it. He used to take his phone every where with him, but now leaves it laying around sometimes. I think he expects me to look. I told him he needed to be transparent. Sometimes I do, but hardly ever do now. If he wanted to contact her, it would be easy. I have an email account just for this website that he does not know about....anyone can do that. Instant Message is easy, and he even had a disposable phone (twice actually...he threw the first one away right after DD and then got another one about a week and a half after) so he could call her and not be on the phone records. I don't think if he was still in contact with her he would be able to function as well as he is now. I don't know how hard it is for him to not contact her, but I know it would be disasterous, much like you encountered. If she were not as nasty as she was to me without even meeting me or speaking to me, and if she did not know that he was married with 2 children, I might have almost felt sorry for her. However, once she was told that he was going to stay, she went psycho. She had broken up with her live-in boyfriend of 4 years, told my husband that he needed to move fast, divorce me and her move out here around the corner from where we live now.Told him that everything would be the same and only that he would not be married to me any more and that the children would be fine. For him to actually buy into that, I know he was not thinking clearly, or thinking at all - so yes, it was intense and she had him over a barrell. He is throwing himself into getting healthy and working out and we have both been doing this partly together. I am in the best shape I have been in since we met. I call it the My Husband Cheated on Me diet....not how I wanted to lose the last 10 lbs, but since I got there, I took advantage and started working out a lot. That has all been for me. My "I am not going to have any hangups about myself" plan. Is he feeling the same? Does he realize that he let himself go - like 30 lbs worth? He wants to go back to school. These are all good things. Is he doing it to keep his mind occupied? To better himself as a person because he has been lacking in all departments? I always supported him. He got lazy, and that was discouraging for me. The more I type, the more I wonder just how much he realizes that he was making himself unavailable and unattractive to me...not that I did not love him. I did, and I still do....or does he only see me, who had to pick up the slack where he left off, taking care of our girls, the house, moving, planning, etc? I was tired. I felt like I had 3 kids and he did not help. 15 years of being a military spouse was not easy, and then to find out that he had cheated during that time and then the big one when I was burying my brother from cancer....yep. During one of our conversations, I had asked him why he cheated on me before and how he was able to move past that one. He said it was because we were arguing a lot (I do blame him - he HATED his job. He was miserable to be around). He said it didn't mean anything, but then backed up and said that it probably did back then.....OK - so that means that he was able to move past it. Or maybe he didn't and carried guilt around and that is why he was an A** to be around...so - yes, I have been dealing with this latest disaster, but now also know of a time when this happened before we had our girls. He acknowledges that he has not been a good husband, but says that he wants to be and will be from this point forward. Could his guilt and misery be from the last 15 years all bottled up, not just for what he did recently, but for what he did 10 years ago? I told him that I didn't want who he was..but only wanted him if he was going to be faithful. I have told him a few times in the last few weeks that I will not be second choice, and if he can't handle the recovery that he needed to go....he said I am not a second choice and he is still here. SOrry this post is so long - but here is something else....so I told him that he had to be tested for STDs...he did that about a month after DD. It came back negative, but 3 weeks ago, he gets a rash, and it could have well been herpes...he was scared. He broke down one night and told me how sorry he was for messing everything up, how scared he was that he was going to lose me and how he didn't realize just how much he loved me until he was faced with that. He hated himself and understood if I wanted to leave. Said he had so many plans for us but screwed that up too and hated himself for being so stupid. SO, went to the Dr., and it is shingles. We were both relieved, but I had to ask him if he still felt the same as he did 2 nights before when he thought it was herpes, or if he only said those things because he was scared - fair question I think. He said he did. Karma maybe? Now if he ever has another case, it will most likely be in the same spot - a reminder, I think. Part of me wanted it to be something he might have caught from her, but treatable - not herpes that you have to live with. Just something that would associate her with a bad feeling. I hope that scare was enough. Since then, we have taken our weekend trip with our girls, planning vacations, and spending time together. We have another weekend, a birthday party for our youngest tomorrow, and he wants to bring his mom out during spring break. Again - I think he is trying, but his heart is not completely in it. I think his committment is, and I just hope his heart will follow. I know I am holding back some too because I am on the defensive. Some days I am all in and others I am unsure just because of the hurt and anger that I still feel. I am angry for being put in this position. I don't want to feel this any more. Just the awkwardness at times is what triggers me to get angry about the situation. Awkwardness after 15 years should not exist. I try to look on the bright side and think maybe that can be good - he is not so comfortable any more, so maybe he will work harder at it. Is it possible for a BS to actually get over an affair before the WS does? Am I crazy for doing so? I want to tell him "Enough already! Get over yourself and move on!"...and then I want him to do it. I feel like he is drawing it out - but should I take that as a good sign and that he is not just getting over it so quickly? I still have so many feelings (as you have read). One thing I am certain of. I want us to fall back in love. Do we love each other - yes, but falling in love...we all know it is a chemical in the brain that makes us want and do crazy things....lust seems to be the foreplay for love many times...maybe our intimacy will help bring us closer to that. He is focused on us creating good times and memories - we need that. Oh, how I wish I had a crystal ball.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

At 2.5 months I think you may be suffering from a desire to rug sweep if you think you've moved past it all. I understand that desire but realistically I don't think infidelity can be dealt with and processed properly in that amount of time. Not to pat us on the back but I think my wife and I have done a pretty good job at reconciliation, my EA was only 7.5 weeks long, and here 18 months after D Day we are both still dealing with it. It's different now to be sure but it's still there. 

I have to say that based both on my own personal experience and what I've seen here on TAM I think what you're experiencing is way more normal than not. I think the thoughts, emotions, doubts and anxiety you have are just part of it all unfortunately. If this were easy we all wouldn't be here would we?

"Is is possible for a BS to actually get over an affair before the WS does?" I'm sure it is - actually my wife probably recovered faster at first than I did, however has time has worn on I think we will both arrive at the finish line - if there is one - at about the same time. She managed to make peace with it before I did, but to me that's not the same as getting over it. You will both carry a scar from this for the rest of your lives, as will all of us here. Getting over it is learning to live with that scar, knowing it is there and accepting that it will ache a little every now and then.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I think you are right about some of it. I am tired of arguing and him getting defensive when it comes up. He is dealing with his own issues that I can't understand unless he is willing to share. Because he feels that it will do more harm than good (either to himself or us - I don't know - I think it changes from day to day)I want to move on and gave myself permission to put it behind me in the sense that I don't feel weak for wanting to work things out even though I did not bring this on myself. As I look back on the first month, I was a shell of myself. I was weak, desperate, and longing to get back what I knew I could not - 3 months of our lives so that I could have seen this coming and changed it. I know now that it is what it is - it happened, but it should NEVER happen again. I was blindsided. He had all of the power to stop it, but he didn't. He crashed and we burned and now WE are cleaning up the mess. I am sweeping my part to the side because I am mentally drained from it all and tired of feeling lifeless because of it. If I dwell on it, it will destroy me and I refuse to let that happen for my own life and for my childrens. Bad things happen, and life goes on. I have accepted it, though I do not understand it, and I am still dealing with it on a certain level. I have to keep it this way or I will fall backwards. If I knew that his heart was 100% into it now, I would be happy. It is hard to have doubt and knowing that your spouse that you gave your whole heart to and sacrificed so much for dismissed everything you once had. I read another thread that after a person cheats once and does not reveal it to their spouse that they are cheating every day - living a lie. I agree, and that is why I want to start fresh. I think because I was just hit with so much at one time - brother passing, this...it ran me down like a freight train. I hated how I felt - not who I was, but how I felt. I am ready to open the curtains to a brand new day and see the sun again. I just don't know when he will be able to do the same. I think he is just peaking through. I just want to open the door and push him through to see that the sun can shine even on a cloudy day. He has got to jump on board and make me feel like he is back in the game. I know your story is different, but did you ever - or if anyone else is reading this - feel hesitant about letting your feelings show, or even though you loved your wife, was it hard to just jump right back in with your feelings?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I agree it would be much preferable if he would come on board and at least talk to you. I buried most of my pain so my wife couldn't see it for exactly this reason. I knew I had hurt her badly already and that anything other than complete openness and my unwavering commitment to her would only hurt her more. What your H is doing and trickle truth are the two things I wail on cheaters here about the most as I believe they are the most hurtful to the BS. 

To answer your last two questions. I was not hesitant to let my feelings for my wife show, in fact quite the opposite I felt obligated to go out of my to express them. I did however, as I said above, tried not to let my pain, confusion, or emotional turmoil show so as not to further hurt or confuse my wife. Where my story and your H's are likely most different is that it was not hard at all for me to jump back in with my feelings for my wife - principally because I never lost them. In reality, as twisted as this sounds, my affair reawakened and intensified them - strange right? I think I was unusual as cheaters go in my ability to immediately and so decisively be totally open with and recommitted to my wife. At the same time I understand the confusion and turmoil - the fog - that a remorseful cheater can go through. Accordingly I spend a fair amount of time here trying to help betrayed spouses understand their waywards difficulties and conversely trying to help cheaters here pull their head out of their ass - but it is ultimately up to the wayward spouse to pull their head out.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Had a good weekend. A couple of triggers came up, but I kept them at bay. Husband asked on the first one if anything was wrong and I said no. He got upset that I later came out and said yes. I told him that if he wanted me to be honest with him that he needed to do the same for me and let me know if he was having a moment, knowing that even though he says he is fine that he is not always fine, as we are both still dealing. He said OK. Had a nice evening after kids went to bed - champagne, he bought me a bracelet. I kissed him, told him thank you, he stared at me and started to tear up. I did not ask, I just put my hand on his cheek and smiled a half smile to tell him it was OK. During intimacy, in the heat of the moment, I said something that just took the wind out of his sail....pillow talk, nothing too different than other times we have shared, except now we have the cloud. He said he was just tired - that never happens. I said, "I said something wrong, didn't I? I am sorry. I didn't mean anything by it." I am not even sure what thing it was I said. He said that it was not my fault..that I didn't do anything wrong, but that he didn't want to go there -that he didn't want to think about something....so that is good, right? Not that I wanted him to, but that I triggered something about her or the affair that upset him so much to just lose the heat of the moment. That it made him feel bad at that moment. Then yesterday, he brought me flowers, and intimacy was playful and fun. No seriousness - it was nice....and he sent me an ecard this morning. (Sorry if this is way to much detail - just feels good to get it out there and see what other people think as far as our progress). I didn't tell him that I had a bad day yesterday - I woke up with "their song" in my head - what a way to wake up...and it was all downhill from there until he got home. Today is a good day.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Shame on me - he has been in contact with her this whole time. Had an arguement 3 nights ago - told me how he hated himself and wanted to be the husband and father my family deserved...night before that he told me how that he had to remember that just because he did not think about it that it did not happen. 2 nights ago he came home, I told him that we had to finish what we never did - get everything out so nothing ever pops up - he told me he has been in contact with her since the end og January. Last contact was supposed to be Jan 3rd. He sent her an anonomous ecard on her birthday Jan 19th. She wrote him 2 letter to work, he set up an email account, Facebook account and bought another phone. Said that they have only emailed and texted - no calls. I asked him if it was sexual, he said yes. Said he realized what he had done after he did it, then got scared that if he stopped talking to her she would contact me and that all would be done. Said that he wanted to stop, and after he almost got a DUI 3 nights ago he realized how messed up he was, and aftyer something I sent him in a text 2 days ago he realized he wanted to come clean. OH MY! I feel so numb....angry....and sorry for him at the same time. He threatened suicide again - I would never dismiss someones cry for help - but this is the second time and after the first time he was just starting back up with her. He opened the can of worms again - he pursued her, yet he trys to say that she made him something he is not. All BS to me. Everything has been a lie. He swears it has not been - that he is realy wanting to fix us and have a life with me, that I am the one he loves, but yet he continued his affair to her - "sexting" while he was having sex with me, telling me that he loved me and that he hated himself for what he did to me and us and that he would spend the rest of his life making it up to me and our daughters - he begged me for another chance....I told him that he was saying all of the same things as before, that he chose her over me, that he chose her over our daughters, that he was seriously messed up and needed help, that he was the biggest liar I ever knew, that he did not know what it was like to love someone, that he is full of BS....the list goes on. He said he could not deal with it, threatened to kill himself after I told him I was going to contact her ex boyfriend that she is back together again with and living with again and let him know. That is when he told me that if I was going to do that to leave him first, or he was going to kill himself because he did not want to see the fallout......OMG! I was furious! So he begged me to stay with him, but when I threatened to ruin her life and get her kicked out on her a**, then he couldn't deal.....m***** f******! I am so angry....when I did not hold his nand the next night in the store, he got all teary eyed and hurt and said he felt like I did not want him or be near him. HELLO! I told him I am feeling a lot right now. He said he wished he never told me. I said - OK - so if you never told me and kept your affair going - then what? Live like that for years? He said no and that he was going to end it. If he was going to - he would have back on Jan 3rd. He would not have sent her a birthday card, he would not have "sexted" her. He called her the night we left for our weekend away with the girls. Now the last 2 days he says he feels like his chest is going to explode, how he is so broken. I told him now he may feel some of what I have felt. I know he can't feel too bad. He is eating. I did not eat for days at a time after I found out. I had to force myself to. He said the next morning he would get into anger management and help for the other things, said he would go to marriage counceling if I wanted, sad he wanted to start going to church beginning this Sunday. THat he knows this may seem like a kneejerk decision, but he would spend the rest of his life proving to me his love - that he sore he would nevr contact her again and that if he got anything from her at work he would bring it home. I told him that for me to stick around (for now), that he needed to hget help, that he needed to stop drinking, and he needed to stop going into a rage and breaking things....so that was his solution to those demands. He honestly looks broken for the first time, but I still don't buy it. I had my suspicions, which is why I always posted (X number of days since last contact as far as I know). I have to give it to him...he has excelled at lying. I used to be able to tell. I did not think he could function as well as he had been, but the anger he showed when a topic came up was still there. I don't even know what to think or feel anymore. I am cried out. I am angry, but I feel sorry for him in the sense that here is an individual, someone I once loved so much that is so messed up. He lies.....even if he did turn around, I would not know and could not believe. I am stuck.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Damn damn damn. I'm sorry Looking - I really am. 

Question. I can't quite tell from your post, did he volunteer that he had broken no contact? Did he confess or did you catch/trap him?

I know it hurts but the reality is breaking no contact is more normal than it's not. I did - in much the same way. My AP sent me a friend request under a made up facebook identity. I knew it was her - I accepted. Nothing for a few days and then a chat session for a couple of hours. We did keep it pretty much platonic but contact is contact. The ironic part is the night after we chatted my wife looked me dead in the eye and asked, "have you heard anything from her?" Total coincidence. My wife took me so off guard I spit out "no" before I could stop myself - the first and only time I lied to my wife's face. Anyway I knew I was at a precipice. If I went to work that next morning with my new secret I was back in the affair and all bets were off. So I woke my wife up at 2am and confessed to lying to her and breaking no contact. Here's the upside of that though. That was the moment when my affair truly ended - that was the moment when I picked my wife over my AP.

That's why I ask if he confessed. While it sucks that he broke no contact, and especially that it went sexual again. If he outed himself it could - possibly - ultimately be a good thing.

Just trying to give you a different possibility.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Yes - he admitted it. But not before all of the lies, not before swearing to me for the last 6 weeks that there was no contact. What really ticks me off is that his supposed "ah-ha" moment was when he almost got a DUI...that would have really screwed up everything for everyone. Then I said something to him the next day - being supportive as always, telling him that he could be the father and husband that we wanted to be, but that he needed to practice. And what kills me again, is that when he thought he might have herpes and it turned out to be shingles, he professed his love to me yet again and told me how he did not know how much he loved me until he thought he was going to lose me and I would leave if he did. That was while they were in contact yet agin. He said after he told me that he was not trying to be a hero about it, but he knew that I deserved to know the truth and that he did not want to lie any more. So yes - he confessed and I did not know. However, this does not make me feel any better - just pity, anger and discust. I also had an generated email from Mort Fertel - Marriage Fitness guy - this morning was about how a WS spouse can change, but often the betrayed spouse does not give them another chance (in my case it would be like 5 chances), and the WS ends up being a great husband to someone else - what timing. I don't know what to do. I don't know how I feel. I don't know that it is possible. And when I aksed him what she had that I did not, becuse it had to be something or he would not keep going back, he said nothing - that I was better than her in every single way and she had nothing on me....REALLY...then why? We still have lots to talk about, I still need answers, but not sure any answer will sway me in a good way. I just shake my head, and funny enough, I have been productive at work the last 2 days...probably because I am just numb and tapped out. There is nothing I can do anymore to help him. This morning I did ask him how much time he spent texting her at work (not including texting me). He said sometimes 10 an hour, sometimes they would skip a day....so I told him no texts to me today (or her obviously) - to give work 100% since he has been sucking at it the last 5 months since this all started. He just sent me a text that instead of 2 items completed, he got 5 done....imagine that. If he could only learn from his mistakes.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Never. Never underestimate just how far up their ass a cheater can get their head.

Take your time - you're under no obligation to make a decision about anything. Are y'all in counseling?


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Have not been in counciling - after I told him he needed some serious help and I could not give it to him he said he would go. We shall see if he follows through...we will see if he goes to church on Sunday. Here is some of what he wrote the last few days (I told him after he told me that we were not even at gorund zero again - we were at negative 1)...so he starts off with day 0, and so on (sorry this is so long - thank you for reading and offering your opinion)!

Day 0, 7 March 2012

I have nothing of her remaining and she has NO piece of my heart. I’m your husband, your friend, the father of your children. I betrayed you and am standing here today asking you to be with me so we can reach Day 1 together. Transparent and honest with no more lies, I’m willing to chance losing you to give you what you deserve, you ask I’ll tell (no matter how painful it is for you or me). You deserve to have your moment and I’ll help you get that should you wish to act on it. You have a handful of emails and should you want over 300 we can get that from her facebook account. I would have to contact her and request to be her friend to get to them but she would let me in. I don’t want this, I just want to be done with her but if you need that moment then I’m willing to take on whatever comes our way by your side. I’m not afraid of her and I’m not protecting her or him and refuse to live my life in fear of her possible reactions.***This is in response to me saying that I was going to contact her boyfriend*** I Love You because you’re the strongest woman I know and you gave me your heart 15 years ago. I’m willing to fight to earn your trust.

1-6

Your life MUST be an open book. You no longer have the luxury of coming and going as you please. Once you have abused that privilege, it takes a while and a whole lot of effort to get it back. Therefore, if you will be late coming home from work, or have had a change in plans, inform your spouse. Every time you leave the house your spouse is now wondering if you are going where you say you are going. The best way to ease their insecurities is to check in throughout the day. Invite your spouse places you usually go alone like to the game, the gym or the mall. Let your spouse know that you have nothing to hide. Additionally, do not hide your cell phone or set the ringer on silent. If your spouse requests, give them your email and voice mail pass codes. In fact, if you have nothing to hide then offer your spouse the codes without them having to ask.

Don't lock your cell phone, call log or address book. Offer to let your spouse see your phone bills, and keep the credit card or bank statements in plain view on the kitchen table. Although your spouse may never choose to check these things, the simple fact that you made them available for his/her perusal will be a HUGE step in regaining their trust. Although you may feel as though some of these are a violation of your privacy, you need to know that these steps are absolutely NECESSARY if you are trying to rebuild trust. Saying that you are on the straight and narrow while continuing to hide your cell phone or spending is counterproductive to your stated goal of wanting to rebuild your marriage. 

I’ll get in anger management by the end of the week and check on seeing someone to talk to for everything else. I’ll go to marriage counseling with you if you would want to go. 
I’m going to start going to church on Sundays. I would like you and the girls to go with me. Might all seem like a knee jerk reaction trying to fix things but if I died tomorrow I would want you to know I started trying today and didn’t waste a minute of my life not trying to make our life better. I Love You (my name) always have(even though I haven’t been who you deserved to be with, I now have to give you the actions of this love I have for you.)

Day 1, 8 March 2012

Well it’s day one on what I hope is the road to better days. I’m here and always will be because I Love You, the girls and my family, I always have. Love, what is Love? To me it’s the feeling you have when you find a person you want to spend the rest of your life with. That person for me is you (my name). So why would I do the things I’ve done? I have given in to temptation and have been blind and weak. How do I ever fix this? I don’t know. Sometimes I think I might never be able to, but maybe I can make the days better. I give you 100% of my heart every day for the rest of my life in hopes that one day you can go to sleep in peace, dream good things and wake up happy. That one day you can face a trigger and not shed a tear but rather look at me and say you about lost me dumbass. 
That one day I may be able to talk to or face your parents. 
The pain I see in you makes me want to live to make things right, the remorse I feel makes me not want to go on because it hurts so bad to even think about it. When you’re living a lie every day you know your being a bad person and you just deal with that fact because you’re a bad person and you know it. When you’re trying to be a good person dealing with the bad things you’ve done it can be unbearable for your insides this is the only way I know how sorry I am. I want to feel the pain I caused you because I deserve to, this will hurt to read but when I think of the fact where I was on the day of your brothers funeral I just can’t take it and this is when I just want out (life) because I’m not strong enough to handle this….. Because of this alone is why you should leave me! I promise you every day that you decide to stay with me I promise you that Second by Second, Minute by Minute, Hour by Hour I’ll be here for us trying to get to the next day of our lives with you………

Day 2, 9 March 2012

I want to let you know now more than ever I want to be close to you. It may have seemed like I was avoiding you but that was not my intent. ***I told him this morning that it seemed like he was avoiding me last night*** I needed to run to just release built up emotions and then I thought I was giving you needed space. You ask questions as you should but I’m giving you my valueless word there will never again be any contact with that person by myself. I hate who I became and I’m going to fix myself. I hate what I did to us and I’m going to rebuild our foundation and future. I will forever hate the things I’ve done to you and will dedicate my lifetime to become that Friend, Man, Husband you so deserve to spend the rest of your life with. Work will be easy to fix as I put my mind to it. If there is ever something you need or wish that I do please inform me. I wish there were better words and until I find them for now I’ll say I’m Sorry. 
I’ll make it to day 3 and my hands will be open waiting for you to place your hands in mine. I’m never going to waste another second of my life not trying to keep you a part of mine and every day you wake up with me I’ll strive to make every one of our new days better than the day before. All I have are new days because I can’t change the old ones. I hope this doesn’t come out wrong but I’m not afraid of losing you because that fear would be about me, I’m afraid of you never truly knowing or feeling the love I have for you. 

The Goo Goo Dolls, “Better Days” 

I Love You


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

...and he listed out all his emails, phone, passwords, etc. 3rd phone has been thrown in lake (so I am told). Email and Facebook have been closed.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

He should have put that third phone in your hand.

I can feel your frustration. He's certainly saying the right words, but cheaters lie. If you're still willing to reconcile all you can do is listen to his actions and see if they match his words. If he's really remorseful he'll understand this. Like I said - don't get in a hurry - you're under no obligation to make a decision or to be held to a timeline.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I agree about the phone and also the 2 letters he got at work that he "threw away"....should have been given to me. I expect that he will be getting something from her this week at work. If he says he does not, I will not believe him. He said the last text he had with her - he asked if she would marry her boyfriend...she said that she did not think of him that way and he probably would not ask. Then she said that he just wanted to know if she was still an option, and he told her that she was no longer an option and that I treated him good. Supposedly she did not respond, he closed out the email and then threw the phone in the lake. I don't know what I am doing at this point. Making sure he gets the help he needs and then go from there I guess. Don't know why he asked about her marrying her boyfrind - maybe as a last good feeling that she would move on? Who knows. That is one question I plan to ask. As always Sigma, thanks for your 2 cents!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Remains - are you still out there? How are you doing these days?


Hi Looking  Yes I am here...not been for a while. Read your final post earlier today....

just reading all the others I have missed before I respond, this is where I am up to....


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Blimey! What a rollercoaster! Well...where on earth would I start? He has been angry and defensive for such a long time...obvious now! And now he confesses all and writes you those lovely words. Sounds like he has been getting her out of his system, the anger, the defensiveness, the last bit of contact, and then the unprompted confession...that is a good sign...though as Sigma says, read his actions also. Make sure he backs up those words with all you need, and all you have needed for these last 3-4 months. 

As for me, I am now at the stage in between your words of turmoil and your husband's confession. My partner is still at the 'I will talk'...'no I won't' stage. I have resigned myself to the end of our relationship. Which is very sad because we are perfect together. I have never felt so much for a man, got on so well with, and all our friends say the same. My mum also said the same to me just this morning - how good we are together. But, his defensiveness and anger are not for the same reasons as your husband, I don't think he is still seeing her. I believe he is hiding more occasions/another occasion. And it was too close to the day I found out for him to disclose that one. I know I am right. Too many things point to that fact. He is away at the moment on holiday for a week, back Saturday. I have had time to think, and I am convinced of another occurence/s. And I am ready to end things. He says he will take a lie detector test to prove his innocence, I think he is full of s**t. He will take it, but he will back out at the last minute/look up how to beat the lie detector/or just hope for the best...they are not exactly reliable are they? I wouldn't trust one one bit, either way the results go. I have emailed the OW this week while my man is away, I only know her work email. I asked her discreetly to get in touch with me (I went to visit her last July to get the answer to this question, but being naive, good, honest, I think I may have fed her the answer so I want to ask her again - when was the last time she spent time with my bf, and when was their last conversational contact. I didn't ask the questions, just asked her to call me. She didn't respond. So now, even though I said I would not pursue if she chose not to get back to me, now I am angry she has not. The least she could do after what she did is call me to clear up one question! Naive and stupid I know. I know she is a b*tch, a sl*t (she went with my man while he had a gf - me - and after she had dumped him (my bf - she dumped him just before I met him) for another man, fu*ked my man behind her new bf's back), when she was with my man, bf & gf, none of his family liked her, she cheated on him, she is total trash, and so I take what she has said with a pinch (handful) of salt. So now I have written her an email saying that if she does not get back to me then my next email will be to the headteacher of the school where she works. I know that her and my bf did drugs together on their 'cosy nights in'. So I have threatened her with that. We will see if she responds. I am not into revenge...but this question and the answer to it is what my whole future with the man I love depends upon. So I now do what I never thought I would. 

How are you Looking? How have things been for you now that your husband seems remorseful? Is he now doing all the right things? I do so hope so. XX


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Reamins - sorry to hear that you are still riding the roller coaster too. If people could only come clean and learn their lesson after screwing up, it would be much easier to forgive and move on. He still gets frustrated some when we talk, but not angry like before and he lets me talk - that was not the case before. I grilled him with every question I could think of upon his last confession and one night this past weekend. I thought I got everything out, but yest every day there still seem to be more questions that pop up as I repay every day and his actions in my head. I pray you are right that he was just getting her out of his system. He simply was not strong enough to do that before and he did not know what he wanted. I had the urge to ask last night why he kept me around and why he kept her around this last time....for what...what purpose did we each serve? I have made it clear that this is it, and yes, he swears that he is a changed man now. I told him that any fallout, and I woud not stay, even for the sake of our girls...and I would do almost anything for them - anything besides stay after 1 more time. I refuse to be used anymore. I am a great person, and I do deserve better. He has a final chance to keep me in his life in this manner....it could be great. We could have a great family and life together. Even after all of this, I can still see it. If he can't now, he never will. Please keep me updated. I will be here if you need to talk...stay strong, and do what you have to do to get closure and answers. If he refuses to provide them, push him. You are stronger now than when it all started. You know that you have options. Here is some recent stuff that WS wrote since final confession:


Day 8, 13 March 2012

Day 7 and Day 8 

Well I woke up sick and it was a rough day because of that but then good things came from me being sick. I got to eat lunch with You and (oldest daughter) at her school. I picked up (oldest daughter) after school and got to walk with her. I took (youngest daughter) to get ice cream and her and I ate an ice cream cone and listened to Dora. I got to watch you get ready for your doctor appointment and you looked beautiful! We contributed to our community to make it a better place (we are on neighborhood crime watch). How could I forget, we scheduled our first trip to Mexico (we have a wedding to go to this fall). Overall a good day for us. I loved being a part of your life today.

Day 8

Still sick but will fight through this little cold. Missed workout this morning but will get it this afternoon when I get home. We have (oldest daughter's) school stuff tonight and then we can relax.I was looking on vudu yesterday and found a few movies I would like to watch...Courageous, Fireproof and there were two others from the same film makers . I listened to two songs on the way in to work today and one was the one I shared with you before by Tim McGraw ~ Better than I use to be and a new one I found by Say Anything ~ Do Better . I thought about this and wanted you to know I’m truly sorry for the things I’ve done and will continue to do my very best to express this and prove my love for you that I have. I’m not sure how or when but I will apologize to your Mom and Dad for my actions. If there is anything I need to do or that you want me to do please tell me. 
I can only do better one day at a time and I will. I know there is still trust issues and I understand that. You continue to do what you need to do to build that confidence in us and that one day my word will be the only thing you need to feel safe and confident in us. I Love You


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Here is today's message from WS (I got upset with him last night about something else, then in the middle of it threw in, "So, did you get anything at work this week from her?") He said he was not upset that I asked, but in the way that I did it. I was having a bad moment, my emotions took over and I reminded him that we are at where we are at and having that conversation because of the stupid decisions he made. His selfishness and lack or respect...just him being stupid. (sometimes I am better at controlling my fellings and other times not so much). I am not proud of how I handled it, but figure that I am authorized a few more outbursts if I need them. Any thoughts? I know his actions - we will see if he goes to church. We will see if he gets some counseling lined up...only time will tell, and I am not the most patient person, especially when it comes to this, although time is all I have on my side.

Day 9, 16 March 2012

Day 8 brought good and sad into our day. I understand why and all I can say is I’ll always be here for you and the girls and most of all us. What’s different now? The lights are on and I’m looking around thinking now what a fool I was and have been in this marriage. My plan is to be like a new home being built. You see it every day being built piece by piece but you never really see a difference until you can’t see what’s behind it anymore. Because now you have something new and beautiful standing in front of you, it has been there and you just couldn’t see it until now. Although you can’t see what’s behind the house you never forget what was there but now your new memories are what’s there now. Some houses take longer to build than others but in the end I hope you stick it out for the finish product which I promise to be better than what was there before. I heard four things the other day and they stuck, “There is a lesson here” , “I don’t want to be just all right”, “You can do better” and “Honor starts at home”. I get frustrated (my name), but in the end its with myself and not you. I’m here with you and will continue to strive to be the best Husband, friend and father that I can be. I know it’s not much and could have been so much more but tomorrow we will be out of the single digits. I’m not looking back (my name) and will never take my eye off the ball (US) again, one day you too will believe this. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter how many bad moments we had during the day as long as we had more good moments. Every bad moment we take a brick down and every good moment we put a brick up, help me to continue rebuilding US from the foundation up to as high as we want to go. I’m sorry and I Love You.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

This all sounds really positive. I am very happy for u, I hope it continues, flourishes in other ways, and that he means every word he writes. I hope u are now on a real path.

'Please keep me updated. I will be here if you need to talk...stay strong, and do what you have to do to get closure and answers. If he refuses to provide them, push him. You are stronger now than when it all started. You know that you have options.'

Thankyou for your words, and yes, I will keep u updated. I decided to put another thread up, more for me than anything. Tho also for others opinions and confirmations of what I believe to be true. To write down all my suspicions, see them in black and white, and feel strong in the fact that I know I am right. And push for the truth from him. Either that or just let him go. I have a feeling his mother may know what I am trying to find out. She has been very supportive, but last time I spoke to her she said something that makes me think he may have told her. I am probably wrong but these situations cause a scrutinisation of everything don't they. He is back from holiday tomorrow. I have swung all over this week. When he left I was ok about and accepted the end of us. half way thru the week I said something to him, a deserved comment, and he flipped out and said we were finished. I said fine, does he really think I am bothered? He then came down from his high horse, professed love, and I have missed him the rest of the week. Coming back on here has made me look at it all again for what it is. And I am more convinced than ever. He gets home tomor and I don't know how I will be. He is very excited to see me, can't wait, sending lots of naughty thoughts, I have been responsive, but now I am feeling very unresponsive and flat about it all. I have no doubt it will show through, and he will wonder what he will be coming home to. I don't really care at this point. I have done all the fighting I can to save us, now it is up to him. I wonder how things will be tomorrow on his return. To be continued...


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## GROWNMAN23 (Jan 6, 2012)

marriageinprogress said:


> I am a wife who cheated and fantasized about leaving my husband but decided to stay and confess everything I had done to try and work everything out. When I decided to stay and wanted a healthy marriage, I knew I couldn't rebuild on lies. With the help of a great IC I was encouraged to tell my husband everything, which I did. I called the OM in front of my husband to tell him that it was over and my husband knew everything and to never contact me again. It was like a break up between me and the OM and it was a process of working out my feelings. I came to realize that everything I felt with this OM was fake. I didn't talk much about the OM to my husband much unless he had a question that I would answer honestly, I did talk to my IC which was very helpful. I wanted to fix my marriage so badly, I wanted to show and prove to my husband that I made a horrible mistake and that I will spend a lifetime proving to him how much I want my family. I am completely over the OM, it wasn't real what we had. It has been about 7-8 months since the affair and our marriage is getting stronger. My husband was willing to forgive me and I respect and love him so much for that. My husband has access to all my email, facebook, phone, etc to check on me anytime he has an insecurity. I hope that my marriage continues to improve and will be better than ever before. I am still working on forgiving myself, I can't stand to look at myself in the mirror some days knowing what I have done and the hurt I have caused my husband. I hope I was able to help in someway. Good Luck!!


You have my respect for that. If that were to happen to me, in a perfect world I would like my wife to do the same. 

God bless you and your marriage.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> This is my second post - for more info, please see my first post http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/38770-want-believe.html#post562353. My husband first started a thread back in December. From the time that he posted his last thread up until Jan 3, he still was in contact w/OW by text/email.
> 
> What I am looking to find out, if you are a husband who cheated on your wife, and seriously considered leaving for the OW, went back and forth and then decided to stay with your wife and work it out, how did you work through it? Did you cope by not talking about it? What were you feeling the whole time you were fixing your marriage? Were you tempted to run when it got tough? Were you able to get over the OW? Were you able to work through it and did your marriage get better than it was before? Thanks! Just looking to see what might be going on in my husbands head.




This sounds close to my situation. ==The keeping in contact with OW. AND "if you are a husband who cheated on your wife, and seriously considered leaving for the OW, went back and forth and then decided to stay with your wife and work it out, " 

Wow, is there a guide book they go buy? Why? WHY do they act like this for, is the a manuel that we Bs just dont know about? I have had the exact same situations in most part, and really have had som the same questions..


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

I cheated. My wife was a great wife, cooked, cleaned, got along with my parents, loving, doting, etc...

She would cook lunch for me for work and co-workers would come to work and ask what was for lunch. Eventually she even cooked enough so that I could share with friends at work.

As to why I cheated, I was young and horny and an opportunity presented itself and I took it. But like anything, the more you go back, the more you get hooked on it.

Wife found out, well more like i didn't really care if she did or not

Not coming home on weekends and sometimes during the weekdays. Wife finding lipstick, panty hoses, underwear, etc. in my car. Coming home with lipstick all over my face, well you get the picture.

Wife begged, cried, begged but I didn't care. I thought I was falling for the OW (who btw didn't know I was married) so I wanted to have my cake and eat it.

Went back and forth between the 2 of them, wife finally had enough and told me to get out and never come back. That finally opened my eyes and made me really think about who I wanted and in the end I wanted my wife. But it still took me months if not a year to finally get over the OW. I never contacted her again but she was on my mind all the time.

IMO, my wife should have just kicked me in the nuts and moved on, she's really a great person. I know I couldn't have taken her back.

To get your husband back, you have to risk losing him forever. But the way i see it, you've already lost at this point so if he leaves you didn't really lose anything. If he comes back then that's another story.

BTW, recovering took years upon years and a couple of those years I wasted away playing a stupid game trying to run from reality also. How my wife has even stayed this long is beyond me.

Or maybe she sees it as an invenstment, put in the time and when I kick the bucket it'll be worth it :rofl: Sorry for the crass humor.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

WOW.. WOW...WOW.. I read all the post even the ones form the WS.. And to be honest, this is thowing me into a panic..

Most of what you have been thru, the in and out, the promises, the angry defenssive postions he has taken... ETC.. and the heart felt I love you, and going to make it work ETC.. this is and has been what I have and am going threw.

What really has me panic, is the fact that you try to talk with him to try to get info, to get some of your needs meet, he would get angry about it.

I have been posting recently about my situation, and most close to yours. Mine has been about 6 months since last contact between them, but now to be 100% honest after reading your post, I really am questioning it because mine is acting in the same way your was, and you found out it still continued...

My is the same as your to, with the in and outs of the marriage, basically almost the exact same actions/emotions your husband has had . Mine to aswell has done this.

Now Im worried that, its not ever stopped. Your post as spoke volumes to me.. And my husband gets very upset if I want to talk about it. 

Anyone feel free to read my posts I have been asking alot recently about stuff like this.. And now Im just floored ........ How do I find out if it still is continuing?????? WOW!!! I am just totally in shock, just wow I am going thru this had hoped that it was just that he didnt want to cause more harm to the marriage or me, and just wanted to move forward but.. WOW... now I am really thinking diffrently....


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## autopilot (Mar 16, 2012)

Looking,

Please don't take what I say as being mean or destructive to you. I am one who failed to see the handwriting on the wall for many, many years with my ex-wife's manipulative and deceptive ways and just looked the other way trying to make the best of a bad situation (that went on for decades).

I have read with interest the many posts and replies to your thread. The one thing that keeps shouting out to me as I read them from you is this...your husband is manipulative and narcissistic. He has lost control of the situation and is throwing the book at you on ways to get you back under his control. This is spoken from one who has been there and suffered through it (even post-divorce).

He knows what buttons to push to make you feel sorry for him without truly giving into your demands or relinquishing any real control to you. Threats of suicide are just mostly just idle threats to make you feel emotionally off balance with him. He has no actual desire to commit suicide and knows it; but he also knows that you will feel empathy for him and so he uses that to his advantage. His angry outbursts whenever you question him too deeply show that he is still hiding something from you that he doesn't want revealed; therefore, his anger puts a stop to your "prying" questions. Not putting you in control over the disposal of the emails or the cell phones but telling you they are gone gives him total control over when and if they have actually been destroyed. Once he feels that he has again gotten control over you, he will go back to his old ways...unless you force his hand and make him follow through on 100% of your requests and demands (not his).

He has admitted to two affairs (I think that's what I've picked up through your posts) and hasn't suffered any signficant consequences. Most likely, he has had more than that but hasn't come clean on any of the others yet. He has been king of his domain for a long time and has seemingly had free reign to do as he pleases with whomever he pleases.

He will be a "good boy" for a period of time. But, once he again feels comfortable that he has your relationship with him under control he will then probably turn again to his old self and ways.

My question to you is this: Are you willing to put up with all of that only to end up with the same old "crap"?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

autopilot said:


> Threats of suicide are just mostly just idle threats to make you feel emotionally off balance with him. He has no actual desire to commit suicide and knows it; but he also knows that you will feel empathy for him and so he uses that to his advantage.
> 
> His angry outbursts whenever you question him too deeply show that he is still hiding something from you that he doesn't want revealed; therefore, his anger puts a stop to your "prying" questions.
> 
> Not putting you in control over the disposal of the emails or the cell phones but telling you they are gone gives him total control over when and if they have actually been destroyed. Once he feels that he has again gotten control over you, he will go back to his old ways...unless you force his hand and make him follow through on 100% of your requests and demands (not his).


I completely agree with the comment on suicide and his angry outbursts. 'Suicide' is just a ruse to get u to feel sorry for him. That coupled with the anger and defensiveness is all a pattern to get u to 'shut up'. Tho considering your current situation, I hope this behaviour has ended now. 

And I agree with the last part too. He should have allowed you to be involved in the disposing, given them to u to dispose of. Did this happen before he came clean to you? If so, he may well be truthful and this was his process of ending it and making amends with you. If he disposed of them after he confessed, I would be very wary of his word. Get the number of the phone off him and set up an online bill etc. I guess u may be able to do this on a pay as you go phone. And then you can check the number too for if it is ever switched on. He can always go get another one, but at least it is in some way steps for him to be further sneaky about, if indeed he is being. And the more sneaky they are, the more our senses are heightened and the more likely he will be found out.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I typed this long thing out earlier and deleted it by mistake.....no matter - UPDATE - the OW is trying to get a member of my husbands family to accept her as a friend on Facebook. I called my sister-in-law and asked her to contact her for me and let her know not to accept her. We are not actively using FB now, but the fact that she is trying to sneak her way by lying to get info or God knows what else. I want to call hubby now, but know he needs to concentrate on work. I plan to tell him tonight to let him know that I was right and she will not just drop it, but I also fear that another contact will be unavoidable, even if it is a call, text, warning to stop pursuing. She would not be doing that if he had contacted her. This was Saturday afternoon. I am so frustrated and tired of this mess. She is psychotic. Any suggestions? We are on day 12 of no contact - this happened on day 10 and I just found out.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

We are in our final of 2 weeks no contact going into week 3. Told hubby that OW was trying to reach out to family through FB - conatacted family to let them know. He took it very well, was angry at her - said he was surprised but not surprised, and said that unless she did something to take food away from his family, he would never contact, reach out, etc. He said that he would never give her the satisfaction of communicating with him again, and that if anything further happened, we would handle it together. Said that his last conversation (texting) with her was that she was no longer an option - she responded by sending him a picture of her date to make him jealous. He said he sat at his desk, asked himself what the heck he was doing, what had he become, and a light turned on. Then he texted her "Take care", and that was the last she heard. So he said that she probably thought he was just signing off for the day, since he has not contacted her that he probably got caught or something else, but that that is the way he ended it and was going to leave it. Do I believe him? Yes - I believe him now. I know he believes it too. Only time will tell if his anger, impulse do not allow him to reach out one last time. He said that when he contacted her again this last time, she told him that she knew he was going to stay with me and that she would not do anything to change his mind - but all of it was to change his mind - and when he decided again to call it quites, she tried to reach out. Now, she can keep trying to find family/friends on FB (we are not on), mail, or call family by looking them up. He said that he would like to open a FB page with his full name, profess to the world what he did and how he is trying to restore what he ruined and is dedicating his life to get back, but would not do that because then it brings me into the picture and what was done to me and he does not want to hurt me. I told him that I did not care what anyone thought and that he did not need to do that. That being honest, no contact and communicating were the only things that would make me feel better and get us back. He said never again....so pray for us if you pray, and hope that this crazy stunt does nothing to derail what we have been building on for 2 weeks. I'll keep you posted.


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## sunshinetoday (Mar 7, 2012)

Hey, LookingfortheSun...if you are totally sure that he is no longer in contact with her (and I tend to think he is not-based on what you have written) why not compose a nice little text to her with things YOU WANT SAID and send it from H's phone? 

He can even be there with you when you do it. Or else don't tell him just take his phone and do it. The OW doesn't need to know you wrote it. She will think it came from him. 

Warning: This will only work if there really is no contact.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sunshine - I really have no desire to speak with her and would rather just let it go. Sending a text to her from my hubby's phone would give her the number, and going behind his back is no better than what he was doing. Do I not like her - of course not, and one day she will get hers, but not today from me. Silence is golden.


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## sunshinetoday (Mar 7, 2012)

I didn't mean for you to go behind his back. Obviously if you texted her from his phone with him there or not, you would have to let him know you did that. Sorry if I wasn't clear. And I must have misunderstood because I thought she already knew the number. SO SORRY!!

But I am sure you know whats best for you. And your silence is golden and shows you have class.....and know she will indeed get hers!!


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> We are in our final of 2 weeks no contact going into week 3. Told hubby that OW was trying to reach out to family through FB - conatacted family to let them know. He took it very well, was angry at her - said he was surprised but not surprised, and said that unless she did something to take food away from his family, he would never contact, reach out, etc. He said that he would never give her the satisfaction of communicating with him again, and that if anything further happened, we would handle it together. Said that his last conversation (texting) with her was that she was no longer an option - she responded by sending him a picture of her date to make him jealous. He said he sat at his desk, asked himself what the heck he was doing, what had he become, and a light turned on. Then he texted her "Take care", and that was the last she heard. So he said that she probably thought he was just signing off for the day, since he has not contacted her that he probably got caught or something else, but that that is the way he ended it and was going to leave it. Do I believe him? Yes - I believe him now. I know he believes it too. Only time will tell if his anger, impulse do not allow him to reach out one last time. He said that when he contacted her again this last time, she told him that she knew he was going to stay with me and that she would not do anything to change his mind - but all of it was to change his mind - and when he decided again to call it quites, she tried to reach out. Now, she can keep trying to find family/friends on FB (we are not on), mail, or call family by looking them up. He said that he would like to open a FB page with his full name, profess to the world what he did and how he is trying to restore what he ruined and is dedicating his life to get back, but would not do that because then it brings me into the picture and what was done to me and he does not want to hurt me. I told him that I did not care what anyone thought and that he did not need to do that. That being honest, no contact and communicating were the only things that would make me feel better and get us back. He said never again....so pray for us if you pray, and hope that this crazy stunt does nothing to derail what we have been building on for 2 weeks. I'll keep you posted.


I like the sound of all that. Not to dishearten you but the last contact I got from my OW was a full year after D Day - she was persistent. Now, I messed up no contact a little which contributed to drawing it out, but this may go on for a while. 

So if I read correctly there was never a no contact message/letter sent to her? You may want to consider having him send one that you approve before he sends it and that you know got sent the way you approved it. Three weeks of no contact is good so I'm on the fence about sending that message now, but if she fishes again I would do it.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Sigma - no - no "official" goodbye letter, but we did that twice before with no success on hubby's part - they both persisted. This last one was a "wake up" to him, and he texted "take care" and then threw the phone away. I am totally fine with that if it works for him this time. I don't need anything else and at this point do not want any other interaction if it is not necessary. I have no doubt that she will be persistant for some time - I know she does not like to lose, and is proud of her track record up until this point of "never not getting the man she wants even if he is married or engaged"....yep - she told hubby that and does not like the fact that I did not give up and he did not leave (you can tell what kind of a person she is by boasting about that....pretty sad actually....guess she just never ran up against another woman like me...and I AM proud of that....family is worth fighting for). She she is bitter for sure. I am sure we will be getting items in the mail - at his work and possibly at our home if she tracks that down. We agreed to ignore it, and work together on any issues or contact that may pop up. Since she tried FB and was unsuccessful, I am thinking mail this week. I know that he wants us to work - I don't doubt that any more, but having a history of not being able to keep no contact is still a concern. Time will tell all. All I can do is live my life and see what happens - roll with the punches. I will live like I want to, love like I should, and hopefully that will be enough. If it is meant to be after all of this, it will be. We will either end up a love story or a tragedy. Will keep you posted. Keep your fingers crossed for us, and continue on your path...I think you and your wife will one day have a great story to tell


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Looking, I read your post to me, and have now read your post. As I have said before, it all sounds very positive. It sounds like you are talking about a different man, a different relationship. I had to check myself there that you are the same person I think you are, tattoo, defensive...how we were both so similar. I say were. I am doing the 180 now, accept our relationship is over and am waiting to see what happens. I think he is almost at breaking point...not yet tho. I am not sure I even care anymore. I don't want to be here, I feel that green pastures await while I am still worrying about the sh*t covered field I am standing in. I am so pleased to hear what you write, it sounds so positive and much more real. I think you are on to a good one now. I hope it doesn't slide. I hope he doesn't relapse. I believe you have gone past that point though...I hope so. Xx


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

So as I am trying to clear my head of the last bit of anger, doubt, whatever it is I have left, I am thinking that even though it has been helpful for me the last 2 months posting here and talking to some, I think it is for now a reminder that I have to distance myself from and focus on what I feel and not have reminders - re-reading what I have written over the past 60 days...hurts frankly, and if WS is giving it a go this time, having what happened fresh in my mind is not helping me, even if we are moving forward. I pray that all is well and we continue to recover and build something new and solid. It is what I want. We are at 26 days, and unless you hear from me, all is well on th ehome front. Maybe 6 months down the road I can check back in, but until then, thanks for all of your help and encouragement. Remains, I will pray that you stay strong and make it through. Thanks all.

Looking


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Best of luck to you looking. I hope everything goes the way you want it.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

OK - so as of late, we are doing pretty good. Biggest thing I think that is holding us back is WS is hating himself (which he should), but hating himself so much that I feel a wall even though he thinks there is not one. He says that he can't forgive himself for how he has treated me, took advantage of and took for granted. He can't deal with it when someone tells him he is a great dad - because from the outside looking in he is. He has made up a lot to our girls in the last 2.5 months since last contact. They don't know about the affair. Friday he finally texted a good friend back as to why he had not called him back - because he was ashamed and embarrased and admitted to his affair. This is the first person outside of our immediate families he has told. He still has not called my parents and said that he does not know what to say to them. I don't know that he should forgive himself right now, I don't know, or maybe forgive but not forget? I tell him that there is a wall between us because of this, a wall we cannot afford. He says that when he does not think about it, he is happy, we are great, he loves me and our family and he is right where he wants to be, but now he is seeing that he has made so many mistakes, been so hurtful to me, and he says that it is eating him up inside. I told him he needs help that I can't give him, that I have done everything I could, more than anyone or anyone should be expected to do, but that he needs to find something to pull him out of this funk. We have been going to church every week since Easter. I think it has helped. Sermons seem to be written just for us or at him - very in your face - confession, forgiveness, mistakes - how you only have one first marriage - that one almost made me get up and walk out of the room - thought I would cry uncontrollably. I asked him if he wanted to keep going and he said yes. So I know we both still have our struggles, but we are pushing through. It happened. How does he move through it? For someone that is truly remorseful, is this normal behavior - to be happy, yet struggling because you can't handle who you were and what you did? I don't want him to forget - ever, because I don't want him to even get close to something like this ever happening again, but what is the healthy thing here for him and our marriage?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Looking - I've been down this very road your husband is on. I'm not even sure where to start. I guess what I would say is it is incumbent on him to realize that whatever his issues are, that you watching him struggle is hard on you; accordingly he needs to do whatever it takes to bring himself around. I don't know if you read my thread, but this very thing is what brought me here to TAM originally. So to go much farther I have to ask you a question - have you forgiven him? I'm going to assume yes, if you have not then I would say that he shouldn't forgive himself yet - you hold permission for him to that. So assuming you have here's my experience. The first issue he's got is that he has a shattered self image. He likely, like everyone else, believed he was a great guy and wonderful father; so now here he is on the other side of having betrayed his wife - something he probably never thought he'd do - and he doesn't know how to work that into his picture of himself - it doesn't fit. Having been there it's incredibly hard to move forward when you don't even know who you are. What it took for me was to analyze every part of what I did - what in me let me do that, what did it fill in me? I still do that, but it's mostly a completed project now. Time and retrospection will help him rebuild the image of himself - what I would say to him is it's not your screw ups in life that define you - it's what you do with them and about them that does. So he better do the best damn job he can putting this back to right. 

If you have forgiven him, he should accept that gift from you and forgive himself. However that will only remove guilt - remorse, shame, disappointment, regret - all take much longer. BUT - he needs to realize that you watching him struggle is hard on you - and he's caused you enough pain. Accordingly he needs to push himself to work through this, no matter how uncomfortable that process may be - he must do it post haste. If he need counseling he better get it, if he needs to confess to someone he better do it. Whatever it takes to deal with himself he must do - it's part of the heavy lifting.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I have not forgiven him after his last confession. I told him this about a month ago - that I forgave him when I thought he was done with her, but after starting talking to her again, lying to me that he was done - I just could not do it. I felt almost even more betrayed. Maybe that is holding me back to, but I almost feel that until I see an extended period of time that we are really good, I am not sure I can do that - kind of like keeping my guard up because he went back and forth and lied so much. Last week we were watching TV in bed, a commercial came on, and I told him that I I felt like there was a wall between us still - and I said it was his wall - that who he was yesterday is not who he has to be today. I asked him if he went into our marriage thinking that he would be able to cheat and it would be OK - he said no, not at all. I asked him at what point did he think that it was OK to cheat and he said that he never did. I am not a couselor, but my whole point (and there was more conversation) was to get him to finally identify why he did what he did and to show himself that he was not in that way of thinking anymore and could be the great person that he wanted to be - the great husband, the great father....he said that it only made him feel worse about himself. Also in there I told him that we needed to get to know each other - that I needed to get to know him, and that I don't know what was real and what was not. I asked him who he was, he said "I'm your husband", and I said "but who is my husband?" Maybe I am not helping, even though I want to. But when he says he is lost, it makes me think - if he doesn't know himself, how can I? I sure did not think he was capable of any more cheating after the first time so early in our marriage. We never experienced the fallout as we have this time. Maybe because he is finally having to deal with the consequences of his actions - not just to me, but to our children, our families, his friends, and seeing me support him as much as possible in spite of everything? He texted his friend, but did not follow up with the call he was supposed to. Will confession help? One of the messages we got at church - only true confession will bring true change, because only then are you held accountable for your actions. When you simply confess to the one you wronged and only that person, you are confessing for selfish reasons - to only make yourself feel better. Anyone agree?


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## better than before (Aug 3, 2011)

AllThePrettyHorses said:


> I'm not even your wife, and I just felt like I was about to lose my lunch.
> Holy s**t, Sigma.


Yes, that was a really bad one to read.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

AllThePrettyHorses said:


> I'm not even your wife, and I just felt like I was about to lose my lunch.
> Holy s**t, Sigma.





better than before said:


> Yes, that was a really bad one to read.


This first. I said he would FEEL like he was losing the love of his life, not that he was. Everyone - well most of us - agree and know that coming out of the fog is a b!tch and makes you feel and do stupid things. This is one of them. Sorry, but it hurts like hell, not that it isn't earned, but it does. Since it's an affair that pain can manifest itself as feelings for, or of losing, the AP. It's an emotional affair. 



LookingForTheSun said:


> I have not forgiven him after his last confession. I told him this about a month ago - that I forgave him when I thought he was done with her, but after starting talking to her again, lying to me that he was done - I just could not do it. I felt almost even more betrayed. Maybe that is holding me back to, but I almost feel that until I see an extended period of time that we are really good, I am not sure I can do that - kind of like keeping my guard up because he went back and forth and lied so much. Last week we were watching TV in bed, a commercial came on, and I told him that I I felt like there was a wall between us still - and I said it was his wall - that who he was yesterday is not who he has to be today. I asked him if he went into our marriage thinking that he would be able to cheat and it would be OK - he said no, not at all. I asked him at what point did he think that it was OK to cheat and he said that he never did. I am not a couselor, but my whole point (and there was more conversation) was to get him to finally identify why he did what he did and to show himself that he was not in that way of thinking anymore and could be the great person that he wanted to be - the great husband, the great father....he said that it only made him feel worse about himself. Also in there I told him that we needed to get to know each other - that I needed to get to know him, and that I don't know what was real and what was not. I asked him who he was, he said "I'm your husband", and I said "but who is my husband?" Maybe I am not helping, even though I want to. But when he says he is lost, it makes me think - if he doesn't know himself, how can I? I sure did not think he was capable of any more cheating after the first time so early in our marriage. We never experienced the fallout as we have this time. Maybe because he is finally having to deal with the consequences of his actions - not just to me, but to our children, our families, his friends, and seeing me support him as much as possible in spite of everything? He texted his friend, but did not follow up with the call he was supposed to. Will confession help? One of the messages we got at church - only true confession will bring true change, because only then are you held accountable for your actions. When you simply confess to the one you wronged and only that person, you are confessing for selfish reasons - to only make yourself feel better. Anyone agree?


A couple of things - I can't recall if he's in IC or not? If he's not it might help. I would recommend he read a couple of books that helped me: "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "His Needs, Her Needs" they're just a starting place, but especially if he's not in IC they will give him a place to start thinking. Additionally I got A LOT of help here. TAM is your resource and I'm not recommending that you send him here, but there are other sites he might get some help from. 

As for your not having forgiven him, no one can tell when or even if that the right thing for you - you have to decide that. I can tell you though that I would have had a much harder time moving forward and putting everything back together if I knew my wife had not forgiven me - I would have been hung up on that bad. 

Finally - me personally I agree wholeheartedly about the confession thing. To me that's part of taking ownership and accepting accountability. I confessed to both my wife's family and mine, both in my wife's presence. So yeah - I think that helps.


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## courseplotter (May 8, 2012)

I'm not sure how confessing to your family members helps anything but involve them in your personal business (assuming they don't already know about it).

Confession is meaningless unless you have true repentance, in which case the confession becomes a product of it.

But... confessing to third parties, specifically families, is inviting a boundary violation later.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

courseplotter said:


> I'm not sure how confessing to your family members helps anything but involve them in your personal business (assuming they don't already know about it).
> 
> Confession is meaningless unless you have true repentance, in which case the confession becomes a product of it.
> 
> But... confessing to third parties, specifically families, is inviting a boundary violation later.


There is certainly no requirement or mandate that it be families for sure - I know many families where they would be the last people to tell. Who it should be to are the people who's opinion of you is important to you - the people who will be disappointed in you - the people you most don't want to confess to. Family, friends, whoever it is. In my case we are just very close to our both our parents - they are the really important people in our lives. Conversely, I have a brother who still doesn't know. 

Confession is meaningless without true remorse, but I suspect most people would be unable to voluntarily confess to the really important people in their lives without it.


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## courseplotter (May 8, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> There is certainly no requirement or mandate that it be families for sure - I know many families where they would be the last people to tell. Who it should be to are the people who's opinion of you is important to you - the people who will be disappointed in you - the people you most don't want to confess to. Family, friends, whoever it is. In my case we are just very close to our both our parents - they are the really important people in our lives. Conversely, I have a brother who still doesn't know.
> 
> Confession is meaningless without true remorse, but I suspect most people would be unable to voluntarily confess to the really important people in their lives without it.


If confessing is a personal accountability measure that you want to undertake on your own, so long as your spouse agrees to it, so be it. Conversely, any notion that the BS should mandate confessing to someone on the outside is rooted in some kind of revenge, shame, spite or lack of personal boundaries.

But then again, a lack of personal (and marital) boundaries by the WS, BS or both is what got the couple into the situation to begin with.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Agree completely...


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