# Ex-Wife Wants to Get Back Together ... I'm Skeptical



## TheBaxter

I’ve been lurking on this website for a couple days and wondered if I could get some advice. 

I will make this as short as I can: I’m a 51 year old man. I’ve been divorced from my ex-wife, going on five years next month. My ex and I were married 23 years. In year 22 of our marriage she had a six-month long sexual affair with an old boyfriend from her college days. I knew nothing about the affair until one of our two sons, the older boy, told me what was going on. I hired a private eye and he tracked my wife and her old boyfriend to his apartment about twenty-five miles from the town where we live. She had gone out that day on the pretext of spending the day shopping, when in reality she was spending the day with him. 

The P.I. got me pictures and times and I confronted her the next week. She admitted to the affair and I immediately moved out and went to live with my elderly dad across town. I filed for divorce that same week. She continued on with her affair with the boyfriend. After our divorce was final a year or so later she and him got married. It was a great big wedding, with all our old friends attending, and even my sons went. I of course felt deeply insulted and betrayed by this, as I felt my sons and friends should have supported me. Instead they supported my cheating ex. I cut off all contact with these old friends, and my relationship with my two boys has been strained from that point onwards. We don’t talk often. I used to be very close to my boys but I guess they felt closer to their mom.

I guess it was not the happy marriage she was hoping for, because he left her last year and their divorce will be final sometime this month. He also left her with a huge pile of debt. When I divorced her I gave her our paid-off house (that I built) and five acres of land worth about $250,000. Her new husband moved in with her. My son told me that she took out a new mortgage on the house to pay off her husband’s debt a year or so before they split up. She is a teacher and will be retiring here in the next couple of years and there is no way she can make the mortgage now, since payments will be well over $1,500 a month. 

Well guess who has been calling me out of the blue lately? Yep. You guessed it. My ex-wife now all of a sudden has warm glowing memories of our marriage. She called me yesterday and asked me how I was doing. Then she proceeded to tell me that she misses me and wants us to start dating again. I told her that was funny, since this was the first time in five years she had called me or even deigned to talk to me. I also pointed out that she had also done a good job of vilifying me to everyone we knew, telling everyone in her family and all our acquaintances what a tyrant and horrible husband I had been to her. Of course she said that that wasn’t true and that was all exaggerated. Anyways, she wants to get together this coming weekend for dinner. 

I am single, have been dating and I have been enjoying my life as a bachelor. I have lots of lady friends who share their time with me and I don’t really feel like ever getting married again. 

So I guess my question is, should I meet with her to hear what she has to say? I know that her money problems are at the heart of her sudden re-interest in me. I guess I have a sort of morbid curiosity about what she is going to say. There are a lot of things I would like to say to her and none of them very nice. I just wonder if meeting with her is a good idea. I’m afraid that only more pain will come of it.


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## Thound

Let me go first. WTF! I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. Tell her to fvck herself. Plan A ruined her and dumped her, so now she wants to go with plan B. Don't be plan B. I hope this helps.


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## bandit.45

I would not meet up with her. She threw you and the marriage away for another man. He hosed her financially and now all of a sudden she has the warm and fuzzies for you? Oh please. She's definitely looking for you to bail her out. 

I would flat out tell her "no". One simple word and don't take any more of her calls. You don't owe her a thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

I wouldn't give her the time of day. Let her find some other schmuck to pay her bills.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

TheBaxter said:


> I am single, have been dating and I have been enjoying my life as a bachelor. I have lots of lady friends who share their time with me and I don’t really feel like ever getting married again.


So then don't! According to your post, she's a fool who got played and a manipulative liar too.

I'd suggest you could put her on your list of ladies you date, but she'd have to make a lot of reparations to you and everyone else she lied to. Do you think she'd shame herself like that? After you're satisfied with that, could you have some fun with her? Personally I don't think I could, but I'm not in your shoes. If you do meet up with her, get together a list of questions you'd like answered. Don't expect her give them to you. Be careful, you know you're plan B. 

BTW, Your sons knew about it before you and they didn't interfere right off. That tells me they already sided with her. What's your take on why?


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## Thound

bandit.45 said:


> I would not meet up with her. She threw you and the marriage away for another man. He hosed her financially and now all of a sudden she has the warm and fuzzies for you? Oh please. She's definitely looking for you to bail her out.
> 
> I would flat out tell her "no". One simple word and don't take any more of her calls. You don't owe her a thing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your avatar brings back old memories.


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## bandit.45

Thound said:


> Your avatar brings back old memories.


It's the FritoLay Frito Bandito. My namesake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz

I would only add one thing to saying "No!" loudly.

Make sure she hears you laughing as you state it.

You should never, ever get involved with her again.


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## GusPolinski

How to Say No in Various Languages


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## Aspydad

Thound said:


> Let me go first. WTF! I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. Tell her to fvck herself. Plan A ruined her and dumped her, so now she wants to go with plan B. Don't be plan B. I hope this helps.


Thound, I can tell you really had to put some series thought into this one!:lol:

:iagree:


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## staarz21

Nope. She is one of those women that give all women a bad name. Always looking for the next person to support her. For shame! Tell her you will do her a major favor and give her a bucket to save her tears in so she can remember why she is in this situation in the first place.

You have a few ladies giving you attention right now, why throw that away for someone who cheated on you and talked down about you? You should be happy to be rid of her. The karma bus came back and bit her right in the @ss.


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## TheBaxter

Thank you all for the replies. 

As for why my boys stuck with their mother I will never know for sure. I guess they felt her being attacked by the town gossips and so they had a need to protect her? I don't know. I guess I should say they never sided with her. My older son was furious with her when he found out about her affair. He did not speak to her for a few months. I guess they both just realised it was going to happen no matter how they felt so they just went along with it. 

I was gone away working the oil fields when they were young and they were very close to their mom. Burt once they were in high school they spent most of their free time with me, hunting and fishing and dirt biking and such. I was deeply hurt when they attended the wedding, but I guess they wanted to keep the piece with their mom. But when the going gets tight and they need help, guess who they come to?


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## Thound

Aspydad said:


> Thound, I can tell you really had to put some series thought into this one!:lol:
> 
> :iagree:


I knew I should have clearly stated what I wanted to say instead of beating around the bush.


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## TheBaxter

"Nope. She is one of those women that give all women a bad name. Always looking for the next person to support her. For shame! Tell her you will do her a major favor and give her a bucket to save her tears in so she can remember why she is in this situation in the first place.

You have a few ladies giving you attention right now, why throw that away for someone who cheated on you and talked down about you? You should be happy to be rid of her. The karma bus came back and bit her right in the @ss. "

This is what I think. I have three women who I date. One of them is an old ex-friend of my wife's who hates her and couldn't wait to jump in bed with me after the divorce. One gal is an old friend of mine who lives in another town, and the third one is a local female cop. I'm getting more sex than I ever did as a teenager and I'm enjoying life. 

Another reason I don't want to get back together with my ex is because she gained a ton of weight after her husband left her. She must weigh over 200 pounds now. She was always petite and sexy when we were married. Now she looks like a cow. 

I think another reason she is interested in me is that I am dating all these women and I guess it irks her that I didn't just curl up and die when she divorced me.


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## anchorwatch

TheBaxter said:


> Thank you all for the replies.
> 
> As for why my boys stuck with their mother I will never know for sure. I guess they felt her being attacked by the town gossips and so they had a need to protect her? I don't know. I guess I should say they never sided with her. My older son was furious with her when he found out about her affair. He did not speak to her for a few months. I guess they both just realised it was going to happen no matter how they felt so they just went along with it.
> 
> I was gone away working the oil fields when they were young and they were very close to their mom. Burt once they were in high school they spent most of their free time with me, hunting and fishing and dirt biking and such. I was deeply hurt when they attended the wedding, but I guess they wanted to keep the piece with their mom.
> 
> *But when the going gets tight and they need help, guess who they come to?*


As it should be. Good.

So are you inclined to see her for answers or closure?


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## Thound

bandit.45 said:


> It's the FritoLay Frito Bandito. My namesake.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Aye yi yi yi, I'm the frito bandito


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## 6301

IMO, you don't have to be ugly, nasty or ignorant with her. Just tell her that were divorced for a reason and you have no interest in having dinner or socializing with her. Wish her the best and tell her that you have to get ready because you going out for the evening and leave it at that. Just remember that a leopard never changes his spots.


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## aug

TheBaxter said:


> This is what I think. I have three women who I date. One of them is an old ex-friend of my wife's who hates her and couldn't wait to jump in bed with me after the divorce. One gal is an old friend of mine who lives in another town, and the third one is a local female cop. I'm getting more sex than I ever did as a teenager and I'm enjoying life.
> 
> Another reason I don't want to get back together with my ex is because she gained a ton of weight after her husband left her. *She must weigh over 200 pounds now.* She was always petite and sexy when we were married. Now she looks like a cow.
> 
> I think another reason she is interested in me is that I am dating all these women and I guess it irks her that I didn't just curl up and die when she divorced me.



Why are you even asking?


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## bandit.45

Your ex wife is panicking over her future. She blew it bad divorcing you and she knows it. Now she is an older twice-divorced woman, obese, and with a history as a cheater. No man in that town , short of an amoral scumbag, would want anything she has to offer. You are her only hope so she is hedging all her bets on getting you to take her back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheBaxter

I want her to explain to me why she felt it necessary to lie about our marriage to everyone we knew and make me out to sound like I was some kind of demon nazi. I want her to explain to me why she felt it was okay to turn all our friends and family against me. I never did a damn thing to deserve any of that. I was a good husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound

bandit.45 said:


> Your ex wife is panicking over her future. She blew it bad divorcing you and she knows it. Now she is an older twice-divorced woman, obese, and with a history as a cheater. No man in that town , short of an amoral scumbag, would want anything she has to offer. You are her only hope so she is hedging all her bets on getting you to take her back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You left out up to her neck in debt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Actually, you know what... Don't tell her no. Not yet. Do this instead...

1. Tell your ex that you need a couple of weeks to think about it.

2. Book a vacation for two somewhere in the Caribbean. Doesn't really matter where unless there is a specific place that you and your ex visited or wanted to visit; if so, book a vacation there. Don't tell anyone (especially your sons or your ex) that you're doing this. Well, no one, that is, except for...

3. Take one of your GF's instead of your ex -- whichever one would piss her off the most. Taking the former friend may do the trick. And she'd probably be on board w/ it, especially since it would be a great way to piss of your ex. And hey, free vacation.

4. One day, while sitting on the beach in your bathing suits, enjoying the sun, the waves, and drinking margaritas (or whatever), have a passerby snap a pic of the two of you, all smiles and kisses.

5. Send a text to your wife... Something like...

"Well, I've thought about it. No. Also, <former friend> says hi!"

...followed immediately by the pic.


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## GusPolinski

TheBaxter said:


> I want her to explain to me why she felt it necessary to lie about our marriage to everyone we knew and make me out to sound like I was some kind of demon nazi. I want her to explain to me why she felt it was okay to turn all our friends and family against me. I never did a damn thing to deserve any of that. I was a good husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honestly, it really doesn't matter. Even if she can manage to get a cogent answer out of her mouth, it would all be bullsh*t anyway.

Let her wallow in her own filth.


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## TheBaxter

Gus that is a great idea!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CuddleBug

TheBaxter said:


> I’ve been lurking on this website for a couple days and wondered if I could get some advice.
> 
> I will make this as short as I can: I’m a 51 year old man. I’ve been divorced from my ex-wife, going on five years next month. My ex and I were married 23 years. In year 22 of our marriage she had a six-month long sexual affair with an old boyfriend from her college days. I knew nothing about the affair until one of our two sons, the older boy, told me what was going on. I hired a private eye and he tracked my wife and her old boyfriend to his apartment about twenty-five miles from the town where we live. She had gone out that day on the pretext of spending the day shopping, when in reality she was spending the day with him.
> 
> The P.I. got me pictures and times and I confronted her the next week. She admitted to the affair and I immediately moved out and went to live with my elderly dad across town. I filed for divorce that same week. She continued on with her affair with the boyfriend. After our divorce was final a year or so later she and him got married. It was a great big wedding, with all our old friends attending, and even my sons went. I of course felt deeply insulted and betrayed by this, as I felt my sons and friends should have supported me. Instead they supported my cheating ex. I cut off all contact with these old friends, and my relationship with my two boys has been strained from that point onwards. We don’t talk often. I used to be very close to my boys but I guess they felt closer to their mom.
> 
> I guess it was not the happy marriage she was hoping for, because he left her last year and their divorce will be final sometime this month. He also left her with a huge pile of debt. When I divorced her I gave her our paid-off house (that I built) and five acres of land worth about $250,000. Her new husband moved in with her. My son told me that she took out a new mortgage on the house to pay off her husband’s debt a year or so before they split up. She is a teacher and will be retiring here in the next couple of years and there is no way she can make the mortgage now, since payments will be well over $1,500 a month.
> 
> Well guess who has been calling me out of the blue lately? Yep. You guessed it. My ex-wife now all of a sudden has warm glowing memories of our marriage. She called me yesterday and asked me how I was doing. Then she proceeded to tell me that she misses me and wants us to start dating again. I told her that was funny, since this was the first time in five years she had called me or even deigned to talk to me. I also pointed out that she had also done a good job of vilifying me to everyone we knew, telling everyone in her family and all our acquaintances what a tyrant and horrible husband I had been to her. Of course she said that that wasn’t true and that was all exaggerated. Anyways, she wants to get together this coming weekend for dinner.
> 
> I am single, have been dating and I have been enjoying my life as a bachelor. I have lots of lady friends who share their time with me and I don’t really feel like ever getting married again.
> 
> So I guess my question is, should I meet with her to hear what she has to say? I know that her money problems are at the heart of her sudden re-interest in me. I guess I have a sort of morbid curiosity about what she is going to say. There are a lot of things I would like to say to her and none of them very nice. I just wonder if meeting with her is a good idea. I’m afraid that only more pain will come of it.



Wow, you should be the ideal man for many ladies out there.

You get really screwed in more ways than one. I feel for you.

Now she all of a sudden wants to date again? Dude, listen to me very carefully.....

- she cheated on you for 6+ months with an ex bf and felt no guilt

- she married him and took old friends and your kids as well

- now karma happens.....he racked up her debt and they are divorced soon.

- Over that 5 year period, she now all of a sudden is starting to communicate with you and wants to date? Misses those 22 years of marriage with you?!


- SHE IS USING YOU FOR MONEY AND RETIREMENT.


- She knows she can probably get away with it again......

Now its totally up to you my friend. I will say 100% certainty, DO NOT communicate with her at all. Don't acknowledge her whatsoever. She does not exist to you, understand?

Otherwise, she will manipulate you again, talking, getting close, old memories, dating, marriage, all over again.

Once a cheater with no remorse, always a cheater, remember that.


I would never talk to her again, never to old friends and even stay away from your sons. Make new friends, new woman in your life and if the sons wake up and smell what she did, get close to them. Otherwise, nuts to them as well.


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## Caribbean Man

TheBaxter said:


> I want her to explain to me why she felt it necessary to lie about our marriage to everyone we knew and make me out to sound like I was some kind of demon nazi. I want her to explain to me why she felt it was okay to turn all our friends and family against me. I never did a damn thing to deserve any of that. I was a good husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What's happening to you is that emotionally, you are looking for closure.

Firstly before you found out about the affair , you probably never suspected that she would do that, then after you moved out , you never thought that she'd nuke you, get married to her affair partner and convince people , including your sons, to support her.

She's an emotionally manipulative person, something like a closet narcissist.

Those types of persons know exactly how to pull in and manipulate people who they want to deceive. They are natural con men/women. They tend to be very skilled at spotting vulnerability in people and spinning entire webs of lies to getting people's attention and support.

Stay very far from your ex wife or she would use every trick in her arsenal to manipulate your emotions. She knows you want closure and would give you _her_ version of how things went down, sobbing , crying , massaging your ego et al.

The only closure you need is right in front of you , not behind.
You need to get over her and get her out of your system. Stop trying to figure her out.
Only YOU can give yourself the closure you seek.


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## Philat

I wouldn't even respond to her. Even if you still want some answers, she is only going to tell you what she thinks you want to hear. Radio silence will make clear that you are done even thinking about her. If you engage you run the risk of slowly but surely getting sucked back into who knows what.


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## anchorwatch

TheBaxter said:


> I want her to explain to me why she felt it necessary to lie about our marriage to everyone we knew and make me out to sound like I was some kind of demon nazi. I want her to explain to me why she felt it was okay to turn all our friends and family against me. I never did a damn thing to deserve any of that. I was a good husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So its closure you want. 

She did so because it validated what she wanted, the high of her affair. The truth would have taken that drug away from her. There is no other answer. A junkie will sell the family away to get their fix. 

Anatomy of an Affair - The Chemistry of Love

You don't get closure from her. It comes from inside you.

BTW, you say she gained a lot of weight, sounds like emotional guilt and self-esteem problems (who'd guess). Did she have emotional problems or depression while you lived with her? Where you gone for long stretches during your M?


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## CuddleBug

Agreed.

She will only manipulate you again, telling you what you want to hear, getting close again, old memories, dating.....more.......and getting you to pay off her debt from her ex bf she cheated on you with for 6+ months and felt no remorse, even taking your old friends and sons.


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## TheBaxter

CaribbeanMan thanks. You hit the nail on the head. All of you did. I have a lot to think about. 

What she stole from me will be hard to replace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat

TheBaxter said:


> CaribbeanMan thanks. You hit the nail on the head. All of you did. I have a lot to think about.
> 
> What she stole from me will be hard to replace.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It cannot be replaced. When you stop trying to replace it you will know freedom (and, in a way, forgiveness).


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## TheBaxter

I guess there is a part of me that still loves her. But it's not really her anymore is it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Duguesclin

If you want a closer relationship to your sons, she may be able to help. I am not suggesting that you need to see her and re-engage in a relationship. But avoid the bitterness and do not think revenge. She is probably hurting and you can just tell her you have been hurting for 5 long years.


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## GusPolinski

TheBaxter said:


> CaribbeanMan thanks. You hit the nail on the head. All of you did. I have a lot to think about.
> 
> What she stole from me will be hard to replace.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What she stole from you was your _wife_. Or, at the very least, the wife -- and the life -- that you _thought_ you had. You'll never be able to get that back.


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## TheBaxter

You know what is funny? My older son told me that on the night her husband walked out he found her curled up on her living room floor crying hysterically, and she was calling out my name! She actually asked my son to fetch me and bring me to her but he refused. I felt kind of good about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Duguesclin

Maybe, instead of thinking the glass is half empty, think it is half full.

If your relationship with your sons is very important, go for it. I am sure she is the key to that relationship. And again, I am not suggesting you should get back with her. But however you treat her is going to be noticed by them.

You cannot remove the love of kids to their mom.


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## thummper

GusPolinski said:


> Actually, you know what... Don't tell her no. Not yet. Do this instead...
> 
> 1. Tell your ex that you need a couple of weeks to think about it.
> 
> 2. Book a vacation for two somewhere in the Caribbean. Doesn't really matter where unless there is a specific place that you and your ex visited or wanted to visit; if so, book a vacation there. Don't tell anyone (especially your sons or your ex) that you're doing this. Well, no one, that is, except for...
> 
> 3. Take one of your GF's instead of your ex -- whichever one would piss her off the most. Taking the former friend may do the trick. And she'd probably be on board w/ it, especially since it would be a great way to piss of your ex. And hey, free vacation.
> 
> 4. One day, while sitting on the beach in your bathing suits, enjoying the sun, the waves, and drinking margaritas (or whatever), *have a passerby snap a pic of the two of you, all smiles and kisses.*
> 5. Send a text to your wife... Something like...
> 
> *"Well, I've thought about it. No. Also, <former friend> says hi!"*
> ...followed immediately by the pic.


Ooooooooo. This is mean, devious, and just plain revengeful......and I love every bit of it. :rofl:


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## anchorwatch

TheBaxter said:


> You know what is funny? My older son told me that on the night her husband walked out he found her curled up on her living room floor crying hysterically, and she was calling out my name! She actually asked my son to fetch me and bring me to her but he refused. I felt kind of good about that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



That was the night the fantasy all fell apart on her. It may have felt good for a bit. Did you think it pitiful later?


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## GusPolinski

thummper said:


> Ooooooooo. This is mean, devious, and just plain revengeful......and I love every bit of it. :rofl:


What? Nooooo... Come on... It would be nothing more than a friendly pic sent to the mother of his children. 

Think of it as a modern-day postcard. Sent from paradise. And featuring someone that she likely hates.


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## Mostlycontent

Thound said:


> Let me go first. WTF! I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. Tell her to fvck herself. Plan A ruined her and dumped her, so now she wants to go with plan B. Don't be plan B. I hope this helps.



I like this idea but I'd go one further. I've got a rather mean streak in me though and I would make this woman pay something fierce. If she seems foolish enough or stupid enough or desperate enough to offer her head on a chopping block, then cut it off.

I think I'd tell her I'd date her, you know, lead her on a ton, and after sexing her up as much as I wanted, I'd dump her like a box of rocks. this is assuming, of course, that she still looks worth a flip.

I can't help it but I'd make her feel every bit of pain OP's felt the last 5 years. It's not just the betrayal but also turning his own children against him. I would rip her heart completely out if I could but hey, maybe that's just me.


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## xakulax

TheBaxter said:


> You know what is funny? My older son told me that on the night her husband walked out he found her curled up on her living room floor crying hysterically, and she was calling out my name! She actually asked my son to fetch me and bring me to her but he refused. I felt kind of good about that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



fetch you like your a dog or something


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## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> What? Nooooo... Come on... It would be nothing more than a friendly pic sent to the mother of his children.
> 
> Think of it as a modern-day postcard. Sent from paradise. And featuring someone that she likely hates.



All he has to say is "between the 3 women I am already dating I might have an open date in 5 weeks. How does that sound...hello...hello you still there?":lol:


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## CuddleBug

If she was missing something that she needed in your marriage, she should of communicated that with you, instead of cheating on you for 6+ months.

If you wouldn't of had the PI prove she was cheating and confronted her, she would of continued to cheat on you and eventually, just say one day, I don't know what I want, leave you and move in with her ex bf anyway. See?

Here's a sure true way to see if she is honestly sorry and wants a second chance........have her sign a legal document stating if she ever has an EA, PA, anything, ever again, she has to leave with only the clothes on her back. If she signs this, she is really sorry. If she doesn't sign it and maybe even gets a bit mad, then she's isn't really sorry.


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## Rugs

Thound said:


> Let me go first. WTF! I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. Tell her to fvck herself. Plan A ruined her and dumped her, so now she wants to go with plan B. Don't be plan B. I hope this helps.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Rugs

What I don't agree with is alienating your sons. Your relationship with your sons is a completely separate issue. 

They should be allowed to support both their parents without being judged or alienated. It's not fair or right in anyway to make children choose a parent. 

Tell your sons you love them and support them unconditionally. I hope you do. 

I would not even waste oxygen talking to your ex-wife. You have your closure, keep moving on. She will find someone to bail her out, don't worry. Us women all know the type, cow or no cow.


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## LongWalk

Bax,

I think Dug has a good point. If you have the fortitude to meet her you may improve things with your sons.

1) Do not eat dinner or meet her in date-like situation. Go out for coffee.

2) Tell her that if she loses self control and weeps, you will get up and walk straight out.

3) Do not tell her about your pain. Let her talk. Listen and affirm that you understand. No matter how crazy the stuff she says is, just nod your head.

4) Make her no promises of any kind. If she asks you to get back together, just say you don't think you could make her happy.

She was played. When you hear the story of how foolish she was, it will strengthen your conviction that you are fortunate to be rid of her. For the sake of your kids she needs financial advice. The sooner she sells the house and moves into a place she can afford, the better for your sons.

I don't think you are in danger or being sucked back into dating her. She has ballooned up by comfort eating. Imagine searching for her vagina beneath that gut, you'd be unable to maintain an erection.

Pay for the coffee. That is the financial help you can offer.

Having listened to her, you can better understand your sons' situation. Maybe they can live more with you?

Your wife gave OM her money... truly he lied and flattered her. She may even tell you than she stopped having sex with him once their finances went belly up. That will reveal even more about her character.


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## CuddleBug

I have zero sympathy for his ex wife.

SHE cheated on him, and he did not cheat on her.

SHE ruined this poor guy and deserves nothing, nada.

SHE played him for 6+ months and he did not play her.

Don't listen to those who have sympathy for this piece of crap woman. She deserves absolutely nothing and everything that happened was because of her and of her making. He did nothing to her.

Don't meet her for coffee. Don't give her an in to try and talk her way out of what she did. Cheated for 6+ months, would of continued if its wasn't for the P.I. and confronting her.

Forgive her and 100% move on.


----------



## TheBaxter

When I found out about her affair I went berserk. Called her every nasty name you can call a woman. My sons were teens and they had never heard me call her those things or act that way. I'm ashamed to say I behaved badly. I was hurt and angry. I guess that may be one of the reasons they felt they needed to protect her. I don't think they inderstood the full scope if what she did. I have only myself to blame for that. 

Another thing that really hurt me was that our church family supported her, knowing full well she was in an adulterous relationship. I had known many of these people most of my life, but they turned their backs on me. Even today many of these people will go out of their way to avoid me when they see me on the street or in the store. And I was blameless. My ex and her husband even continued attending the church after our divorce and their marriage. I felt completely cast off and ostracized.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheBaxter

Thank you all for your comments. I'm hatching a plan. I won't do anything until I put it by you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CuddleBug

Totally understandable.

Look at it this way. If she got away with all this, when she is before God, ALL her sins are there for him to see.....she gets away with nothing, see?

You got angry and verbal but never lifted a finger against her or cheated on her in turn.

There are so many reasons to start fresh, 100% new.

New church, new friends, new gf, new social life.


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## TheBaxter

I don't go to church anymore. This pretty much did me in for religion. I still believe in God though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

TheBaxter said:


> I don't go to church anymore. This pretty much did me in for religion. I still believe in God though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm a believer myself, and I don't attend church services either.

Some of the most ethically vacuous and morally reprehensible people that I've ever met sit in church pews 2-3 times a week, as if doing so offers some sort of absolution for their errant and unrelenting asshattery.

Said another way...

"Some of the worst people I've ever met are *'church'* people."


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## TheBaxter

At least my old pastor stood up for something. He refused to marry them when she asked him. He was retiring at the time do he didn't care what she or the other churchgoers thought. He's actually still a good friend of mine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

I have the same general opinion about organized religion. Heck, I even knew a couple who were born again Chridtians who were active swingers. And they even had swinging meet ups with other couples from their church! Man I never saw such !

Anyway Baxter, make sure that if you do meet up with the ex that it is somewhere public. I echo the previous poster's advice that it should just be for coffee. That way she can't construe it as a date. Just be careful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

I am an atheist but I have gone to church at the request of family. I got the impression that people went to socialize under false pretences. Some of the women were dressed to show their bodies, not in revealing dress but clearly they wanted men to look at them... and I did. I'll bet anything some churches are a good place to pick up women. Could be wrong about it but I just got that vibe.

Bax,

Your ex only thought of you once the dream became a nightmare. She clung to the OM, until it collapsed. You are enjoying the company of women and have rebuilt you life. This is the so-called karma bus. Not everyone gets to witness it run over their cheating ex.

Clearly you are not the kind of guy to gloat over her misery. Many lesser men would enjoy hearing about her fall. You are a good-hearted nice guy, but no longer in the sense of being a sucker.

Your ex is manipulative. She probably always was. You see that now. 

At present she is unloading her mess on your sons. You need to protect them from her unscrupulous irresponsible behavior as best you can.


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## alphaomega

Baxter,

Your sons are your sons. You are thier father. And she thier mother.

They were never meant to choose sides. Ever.

Let this demon go. Call up your sons. Go fishing with them. Go quadding with them. Just do something with them. Forgo the alienation you and your sons may now have between your bond.

Make the first move. Fix this.

In twenty years, you may find the wedge more regrettable than the 2 minute phone call.."hey kiddos. I'm wanting to BBQ this weekend. Bring the girlfriends over. I have the beer."


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## alphaomega

Oh yeah....your ex?

...."screw you...beotch! That ship has sailed away!"


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## manticore

My friend Baxter.

reading all your post my first concern is the relationship with your sons, I think is time to be honest with them, tell them the truth that you felt hurt by their decission to stand by her mother even supporting her wedding with the POSOM and that you felt that that has harmed you relationship with them, they may come with an answer that may or not satisfy you but at least voicing it out loud with them will help to remove that big boulder that was created between your relationship and will facilitate the future healing.

Your wife....., is not surprise to me that she now is looking for you, she probably has realized that her options to date are very limited now, she is in their 50's, she have the stigma of cheating, she is overweight and she has a big debt.

if I were you whetever you date her or not I would use this opportunity to clear my good name, tell her that you can't see yourself dating her while all your old "friends" and church congregation think that you are the monster she depicted, that you don't want to be part of gossips as if you forced her to date you or something and that she actually have clear your name before anything between you two is possible, that you don't need to be involved in unnecessary gossips or drama.

after this is done and you hear from friends or family that she is actually clearing your name, then you can invite her to dinner or lunch, but you can also be honest, you can tell her that you are dating other women that they are working hard to get your attention and be the number one in your list, so why you should consider her if she has neglected herself and that she is now overweight, that if she wants a shot with you she have to try hard as the others that she is fal from being number 1 as once she was.

and finally her debt, you have to be clear with her that even if you consider any kind of relationship with her (which I don't recommend) the debt is her debt and that you will never be responsible for it whatever happens.

to be honest with you, I would just focus in having her clearing your name and then after a couple of dates just tell her that the chemistry is not there anymore and would focus only in your sons.


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## Caribbean Man

TheBaxter said:


> I guess there is a part of me that still loves her. But it's not really her anymore is it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup.

That's why you still feel anger and other emotions.
You were a family together , going to church , having fun , working , paying bills , hunting , fishing , camping ,doing all the stuff that families do.

You probably need to relieve yourself of all the pent up anger , channel all your energy into something positive, 

Your relationship with your sons.

Of course there would be lots of emotions and thoughts running through your head. You cannot change the past, she is what she is , and if she isn't successful in getting back on your gravy train , soon enough , she have some other man under her spell.

That's not your problem nor concern.

She's broken and needs to work on herself , but again , that too ,is not your problem. You need to work on yourself , to deal with the mental trauma and ensure that your relationship with your sons and future mate is healthy.


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## Jellybeans

If you don't want to get back with her, tell her (it doesn't sound like you do).


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## U.E. McGill

TheBaxter said:


> I want her to explain to me why she felt it necessary to lie about our marriage to everyone we knew and make me out to sound like I was some kind of demon nazi. I want her to explain to me why she felt it was okay to turn all our friends and family against me. I never did a damn thing to deserve any of that. I was a good husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She's never going to give you a straight answer. She's going to hop in her hamster wheel of rationalization and tell you all the reasons YOU made her cheat. How you weren't attentive to her. How you were emotionally distant. How she never did anything for herself, and she'd always, gave, gave, gave and for once put herself first. I can go on and on, but it'll be something like that. 

When she left you, she needed to demonize you to all her friends so she didn't appear like the shîtty person she was. Now she's rug sweeping five years later. Saying it was "exaggerated" is exactly that. Saying you should date is another line from the script. She wants you to "prove" yourself worthy again! 

So, she's told you why she felt it necessary to lie. She keeps telling you, with her actions. As we tell any betrayed spouse, watch her actions. She's a shîthead!

The only right answer would be "I messed up. I was 100% wrong. I'm sorry, will you forgive me?!?" So until you hear those words you have your answer.


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## alexm

TheBaxter said:


> I guess there is a part of me that still loves her. But it's not really her anymore is it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If it helps you any, from time to time I think of my ex wife fondly, as we did have 6-7 great years together. And when I say "great", I mean it. You guys probably had many years like that, too, and it's hard to forget.

What your ex wife did to you is pretty much exactly what mine did to me. I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out the "why's" and "how's" and moved on - though not completely, and likely never completely. You will probably feel this way for the rest of your life, too, and that's okay.

However, this is not the opportunity to achieve this closure. As others have said, she will simply tell you what you want to hear, as she has an agenda. She will be "sorry". She will spin everything that comes out of her mouth in order to make you feel sorry for her.

Deep down, you already know what happened, and that's enough. I'm sure it's more complicated, but in a nutshell, she got bored, met somebody who showed her attention, had an affair, got caught, had to choose between two men, chose him, and got screwed. In the middle of it all, she raked you through the mud, lived in the house you built, and generally lived the high life - until OM did to her what she did to you (but also screwed her financially).

We all know that you know better, but you still need to be wary. If my ex wife came back after 5 years with the OM (which, coincidentally, it has been for me, too), my initial reaction would be "are you kidding me?". But if she acted the way she was when we were happy together all those years ago, I could find myself getting sucked in quick. Just be wary.

*edited to add that I am currently very happily married, and that if my ex wife did attempt to get me back, it would begin and end there. I would not entertain even for a second seeing her to discuss anything. Even if she just wanted to catch up. However, if I were single, as you are, I would have to wrap my head around it and talk myself out of it, I'm sure.


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## RandomDude

TheBaxter said:


> So I guess my question is, should I meet with her to hear what she has to say? I know that her money problems are at the heart of her sudden re-interest in me. I guess I have a sort of morbid curiosity about what she is going to say. There are a lot of things I would like to say to her and none of them very nice. I just wonder if meeting with her is a good idea. I’m afraid that only more pain will come of it.


Revenge is sweet, leave her to her fate

If you dare offer her a chance, she'll never learn the consequences of her actions


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## DoF

Are you nuts OP? 

Don't even bother.....waste of time. Let her learn on her own, no need for "aha" moments, that's just immature and childish.


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## harrybrown

I hope you do not allow her back into your life.

She treated you like shyt for many years. I would not go see her.

However, if you do, please consider this. 

Have a VAR on you. Keep far away from her so she can not accuse you of abuse. You do not want her to be able to sue you for abuse. She is in a bad way. She could continue to do bad things to you, and accuse you of rape. She could get you in jail and take any money that you have left. 

Sorry, but I do not trust people like I used to. I am glad that you are dating others. 

She blew up your life. She blew up her life. And she wants you to date her after all these years of NC?

why would anyone be willing to be someone's backup plan?

That ship should have sailed 5 years ago. She is not like you and she is not like the wife you thought you had. She is a fake.

You would have never treated her this way. Please please keep this snake out of your life. She is poison and you have been bitten before. Another bite and your life could be over. 

Keep a VAR on you, please.


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## alexm

Just a little addendum to my post above:

It occurred to me that many of us will think this is a case of your ex wife thinking the grass is greener on the other side, and figuring out it's not and trying to get you back.

My opinion is that the grass WAS greener on the other side, at least for those 5 or 6 years (affair + resulting marriage). Why/how it ended with the OM is irrelevant, and does not make it a case of her THINKING the grass was greener. The fact is, it was.

Unfortunately for all involved, your side of the fence is now likely the ONLY option for her, and it's better than no grass at all, as far as she's concerned.

My point is, don't get sucked into her making you think she made a terrible mistake and that she never should have left you in the first place.

Again, back to my ex wife, from what I've heard, she's happy with her OM, and for all intents and purposes, she made the right choice at the time. If he all of a sudden turns around and screws her somehow, of course she's going to think she made a bad choice. And she MAY start thinking she never should have left me in the first place. All she knows, relationship-wise, is me and the OM. And if the OM eventually screws her, then I look very enticing as a result. It's familiarity, comfort, "what's old is new again", etc.

And that's the position your ex got herself into, and is now trying to get herself out of, using you. Which is totally common and expected, but not at all cool.


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## LongWalk

AlexM,

Did you have children to consider?

I think Bax is stronger than you give him credit for.

If his ex came out an said that she wanted to reconcile, he could ask her how many times she and the OM had sex over 5 years, just so he could mull it over. Regardless of what evasive answer she provided, they would both know that the idea of the OM being with her once or twice was horrible. But several hundred or over a thousand times (200 times a year x 5 years)? R seems unthinkable.

I think the idea of R is a wish that children sometimes have but at this point OP's boys would probably also be very uncomfortable. Bax would certainly blanch at the idea of a woman treating one of his sons as his wife has treated him.

Reconciliation is impossible. Meeting her will make that utterly clear to both of them. What on earth can she say that will make her seem attractive to eat breakfast with? If Bax had been without female companionship for 5 years, the situation would be fraught with risk.


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## Clay2013

Bax,

I feel really horrible for you. My xW moved right in with her AP and I filed right away. Later my older two daughters went and spent time with her. I felt completely betrayed. I in some ways still feel resentful but there is really not much I can do about it now. 

Its horrible that your friends did not stick by you either but maybe that is for the best. It does not sound like they were much of friends anyhow. I know you probably would love to get some kind of revenge or at least closure but I have to agree with the others. You will never get it. The sooner you come to terms with that the healthier you will be. I never got it from my xW and honestly its not really all that important for me anymore.

I think as far as your kids are concerned you are just going to have to deal with them as you feel best. I kept my older two kids are arms length. 

I would just tell your xW good luck in her life. Wish her well and just walk away. Nothing good can come from bringing her back into your life. 

Clay


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## Why Not Be Happy?

Stay away from her....she is not trustworthy at all.


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## TheBaxter

Thank you all for your insights. Reading through your posts has steeled my resolve to do what I need to do, which is to reject her utterly. 

But I'm also hatching a plan. I'm having my current property appraised this week, and if it is as valuable as I think it is, I may have a way to make myself a big pile of money and help the ex with her financial predicament at the same time, thus getting her off my back forever. But I have to get the numbers. That means I need to meet with her to find out how deep in the red she is. 

I spent an exhausting night with cop lady last night, and in the afterglow I lay there thinking "why on earth would I ever give this up and even go back to that porker I divorced?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GTdad

TheBaxter said:


> But I'm also hatching a plan. I'm having my current property appraised this week, and if it is as valuable as I think it is, I may have a way to make myself a big pile of money and help the ex with her financial predicament at the same time, thus getting her off my back forever.


Why on earth would you give her any money?

It's not your job to take care of her. She fired you from that gig.


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## Feelingsadnlonely

TheBaxter said:


> I spent an exhausting night with cop lady last night, and in the afterglow I lay there thinking "why on earth would I ever give this up and even go back to that porker I divorced?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL that is too funny! :rofl: 

You are worth so much! You've done great! Don't take steps backwards, take steps forward always! Good luck to you and remember that you can control your own destiny...


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## DoF

TheBaxter said:


> Thank you all for your insights. Reading through your posts has steeled my resolve to do what I need to do, which is to reject her utterly.
> 
> But I'm also hatching a plan. I*'m having my current property appraised this week, and if it is as valuable as I think it is, I may have a way to make myself a big pile of money and help the ex with her financial predicament at the same time, thus getting her off my back forever. * But I have to get the numbers. That means I need to meet with her to find out how deep in the red she is.
> 
> I spent an exhausting night with cop lady last night, and in the afterglow I lay there thinking "why on earth would I ever give this up and even go back to that porker I divorced?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow, did you REALLY just say that?

You must be a troll, if not, you deserve EVERYTHING that's coming to you.

You need therapy, pronto.

HOLY SMOKES


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## Marduk

TheBaxter said:


> Thank you all for your insights. Reading through your posts has steeled my resolve to do what I need to do, which is to reject her utterly.
> 
> ...
> 
> I spent an exhausting night with cop lady last night, and in the afterglow I lay there thinking "why on earth would I ever give this up and even go back to that porker I divorced?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is no clarity like what's provided by bedding a woman that is way hotter than your ex.

I remember that moment. "Why the hell did I waste so much time and emotions on that b!tch?"

Everyone's replaceable. 

Play your cards right and you'll upgrade. That's karma, baby!


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## tom67

Just curious...
Why would you even consider giving her money?:scratchhead:


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## Hicks

I could use some money, and I didn't cheat on you.
I take cash, check's or paypal.


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## DoF

tom67 said:


> Just curious...
> Why would you even consider giving her money?:scratchhead:


He already stated it "to get her off his back"

Clearly OP needs a history lesson here. Go ahead OP, pull up Vikings and see how "paying off" worked out for the English.....

It just blows my mind a person would come to such conclusion. 

She will suck you DRY



Hicks said:


> I could use some money, and I didn't cheat on you.
> I take cash, check's or paypal.


x2


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## TheBaxter

What is a troll? Here is my plan if it works. Currently I am living on my deceased dad's farm. It is 200 acres of good farmland, with two barns, a two story turn of the century house that has been completely refurbished and upgraded, a fully functioning silo,conveyor and a bunch of farm equipment. 

At auction I could probably get $30,000 for the equipment. I will cede two ten acre parcels to my sons for their use. The other 180 acres and house I will sell. I'm pretty sure I could get upwards of $750,000. My son figures his mom owes around $200,000 in debts, because that is what she took the mortgage out on our home when her husband moved in. If I can get the farm sold for what I want, then I will turn around and pay her $200,000 cash for the house and five acres it sits on. 

She will move out and go live her life. I will then flip the house for its appraised value of $300,000 or so and make $100,000 in equity. 

All of that money, the money from the sale of the farm and the sale of my ex's house will make me a fat nestegg.


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## wilderness

Why did you give her a free house? I would ask for a quarter million worth of her retirement as a condition of meeting with her.


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## Hicks

Ok, that sounds better.

Even better yet, pretend you want to get back together with her while negotiating to buy the house.

I do think mortgages are public record, FYI.


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## wilderness

TheBaxter said:


> What is a troll? Here is my plan if it works. Currently I am living on my deceased dad's farm. It is 200 acres of good farmland, with two barns, a two story turn of the century house that has been completely refurbished and upgraded, a fully functioning silo,conveyor and a bunch of farm equipment.
> 
> At auction I could probably get $30,000 for the equipment. I will cede two ten acre parcels to my sons for their use. The other 180 acres and house I will sell. I'm pretty sure I could get upwards of $750,000. My son figures his mom owes around $200,000 in debts, because that is what she took the mortgage out on our home when her husband moved in. If I can get the farm sold for what I want, then I will turn around and pay her $200,000 cash for the house and five acres it sits on.
> 
> She will move out and go live her life. I will then flip the house for its appraised value of $300,000 or so and make $100,000 in equity.
> 
> All of that money, the money from the sale of the farm and the sale of my ex's house will make me a fat nestegg.


Only problem is, why would she take 200k when the house is worth 300k? Very foolish on her part, but if she will go for it, lucky you. You could always rent it and/or live there as well.


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## PBear

Not sure why you're thinking of doing your plan... If she wanted to do what you're proposing, she could put her house on the market now for $300k (or less, if she wanted a quick sale) and make some money. In any case, a 200k nest egg will apparently be just enough to cover her mortgage anyway, so it's not a "nest egg" in any case. She'll just have to start over with a new property and new mortgage. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheBaxter

I gave her the house because I wanted a quick divorce and my son's needed a good home to live in. It was the decision I made and I think it was the right one. It did piss me off to no end when her husband moved in, but it was done. There was nothing I could do but swallow it and move on. 

There is no way she could pay for the mortgage on that house when she retires. Her teacher's retirement will give her maybe $2,000 a month if she draws it now. I would estimate she is paying upwards of $1,500 or so for her mortgage now. There is no way she would have enough money to live on after she makes the monthly payment. She will either have to keep teaching and not retire or she'll have to launch into another good paying job immediately. 

All I can do is put the question to her, and offer her the peace pipe. I will tell her I am not interested in dating her, but if the farm appraises and sells for what I hope, then I will make her that offer, which will be $200k cash for her freedom from her debt. 

This is just an idea that I'm formulating. Until I get some real numbers I won't make any move.


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## DoF

You mis communicated OP.

You should've said "I will TRY buy her house at 66% of the value"

And I have doubts she will agree on that.......and if she will, more power to you, I guess.

I would simply forget about her property and life and worry about yourself and your child.

Keep communication to CHILD only.

Why in the world are you worrying about her life/retirement etc. Seriously


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## Lostinthought61

Honestly Baxter,

what exactly do you owe this woman, sure at one time you loved her, sure she will always be the mother of your sons, and you may still have feeling for her....but remember what she did to you, how you felt, how she turned others away from you, no remorse, no lets work this our, no i still love you and i reject the other man...she is a self centered person....and i tell you this having known people like her...you give her a dollar today she walks away but tomorrow she will ask for 2 and then the next day......and if you think for second that she thinks deeply in her heart that she caused you pain...your wrong....dead wrong....she will be go with platitudes....but they will be as empty as her heart....hear me now brother walk the other way, i understand you want to do good, but it will NEVER end with her until she has sucked everything from you...please please listen to these people, and spare yourself further grief. she made her bed, one soiled by another you are not the fvcking chambermaid, this is not your mess to clean up....let me ask you one question....look into your heart and let me ask you this question...if everything had worked out well for her...she was happy with the other man.....and it was you who was on hard times...would she be there for you...honestly...did she ever pick up the phone in the 5 years that she was married to OM and say hey baxter, i am deeply deeply sorry for what i did.....now is not the time to be a martyr. just my 2 cents


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## LongWalk

The benefit for her is a big chunk of cash without lawyers or banks involved. She takes the money and buys some cash (cheaper for her) that is within her budget. Your sons see you as the good guy. You get to sell the abandoned love nest.

Sounds reasonable.


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## TheBaxter

Believe me I understand and agree with what you are all saying. If the numbers come out to where I think they will land, then I will ofer her the $200k. She may very well laugh and tell me to go get stuffed, and that will be okay too. Either way, it will be the last conversation I would have with her concerning anything having to do with us or our life. I do not plan to take this woman back for any reason. This would just be a business deal and nothing more. I give it a 20% probability of her agreeing, but if I dont try, I definitely won't succeed. To be honest I'm just looking to use her like she used me. But I won't screw her over like she did me.


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## Philat

tom67 said:


> Just curious...
> Why would you even consider giving her money?:scratchhead:


Keeps the thread going?


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## TheBaxter

Xenote, I agree with you completely. No she has never apologized and I don't expect she ever will give me an honest heartfelt apology. At this point I don't want one. I would like my good name restored, but she will not have any reason to help do that unless I take her back and that is just not going to happen.


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## PBear

So you give her enough money to walk away without a mortgage, but without a house, either. Most people prefer a house over a box in a back alley, so she's either going to have another mortgage or rent expenses. Bottom line... You're offering her less than market value, with the expectation of making a profit. And it's not anything that she couldn't do on her own anyway. 

If your goal is to screw her over, I wouldn't blame you. But it makes no sense to me why she'd even consider it. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013

Do you owe her money? Did you not pay her in the divorce? Is there something I have missed? 

If you don't owe her nothing then you just are going to let her abuse you one more time. 

It sounds more like she used the ploy of getting back with you so you could bail her out. It looks like she is going to succeed without even having to sleep with you. 

I find it odd you are even considering it.

Clay


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## anchorwatch

He didn't say he'd give her money. He said he's got a scheme where he could get himself a pile of money and give her a way to get herself back on her feet. 

This could work to lighten her lighten financial predicament for his sons and put him in a better light with them. While making sure she didn't have to lean on his children or him. What's wrong with putting coin in his pocket, even if it has to include her? He deserves something, since she set it up for her 2nd Ex to take the assets he accumulated in the marriage.


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## Clay2013

There is no way I would put myself in any kind of a position with her. If he goes back and offers her less she will just spin it to the boys and they will just do what they already did. I would personally just walk away. Let your boys come to you on there own terms without there mother involved. 

She cheated on you and lied to you what makes you think she wont make you out to be the bad guy again? 


Clay


----------



## PBear

How does it out her "back on her feet"? She'd be without a home, so she'd still need to rent or buy something. And if she wanted to sell, she could sell the property for 300k, just like he plans on doing. Which would leave her with 50k+ (after legal fees and stuff) after paying off her mortgage. 

If his goal is to look good to his sons, I'd guess they're too old to not see through a false offer. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

He must have something planed. He didn't give any details. I would think, or hope, he would have thought it out that far.


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## PBear

Personally, I'd advocate "she made her bed, let her lie in it". She's got the means to do what she likes without his offer. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks

The high road is highly over rated, imo.

You want to know why she trashed you to anyone who would listen? To justify her behavior. Period.

Now, about that low road: 

a. Sweetly tell her that you would be, ahem, frankly embarrassed to be seen in public with her.

b. Lead her on. Let her think you're her KISA and will take her back, fix all her problems, and have a glorious second marriage. Do NOT so much as kiss her cheek! When you've got her totally reeled in, laugh and ask her why she thought you would volunteer for a second round of bat-**** crazy. Then, walk off into the sunset and stick her with the bill for the coffee.

That's the way I'm wired and not apologizing.


----------



## DoF

PBear said:


> So you give her enough money to walk away without a mortgage, but without a house, either. Most people prefer a house over a box in a back alley, so she's either going to have another mortgage or rent expenses. Bottom line... You're offering her less than market value, with the expectation of making a profit. And it's not anything that she couldn't do on her own anyway.
> 
> If your goal is to screw her over, I wouldn't blame you. But it makes no sense to me why she'd even consider it.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This, and OP, you ARE trying to screw her out of 33% of value of her house (any way you look at it).

Also it all goes against you "making sure your son has a home".........she will have NOTHING after such deal.


----------



## syhoybenden

Why help her out at all?

Let her twist slowly in the wind.

She worked hard for this. She deserves it. Let her have it.


----------



## DoF

Blondilocks said:


> The high road is highly over rated, imo.
> 
> You want to know why she trashed you to anyone who would listen? To justify her behavior. Period.
> 
> Now, about that low road:
> 
> a. Sweetly tell her that you would be, ahem, frankly embarrassed to be seen in public with her.
> 
> b. Lead her on. Let her think you're her KISA and will take her back, fix all her problems, and have a glorious second marriage. Do NOT so much as kiss her cheek! When you've got her totally reeled in, laugh and ask her why she thought you would volunteer for a second round of bat-**** crazy. Then, walk off into the sunset and stick her with the bill for the coffee.
> 
> That's the way I'm wired and not apologizing.


that sounds tempting and all but I wouldn't recommend it just because she will go bat crazy and his child will probably take the brunt for that....at home, when she returns.

IF there was no child involved, I would still probably say "don't bother wasting another second on this woman"

Not worth it.....waste of time.


----------



## Blondilocks

His sons most likely know by now that their mother is no saint and dad is no devil. Besides, they have to be 18 & over. Not kids. They don't get to emotionally manipulate OP anymore than ex does.


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## Lostinthought61

then why give her money....you are only feeding a someone who will never truly appreciate it and will only expect more. she will call you cheap if is not enough behind your back and never grateful for what she gets....do you truly believe that is a good investment. lastly, if it was me in your situation...would you give me the same advice you are giving yourself? I had a girlfriend just like her.


----------



## GTdad

DoF said:


> This, and OP, you ARE trying to screw her out of 33% of value of her house (any way you look at it).
> 
> Also it all goes against you "making sure your son has a home".........she will have NOTHING after such deal.


And even if this deal is on the up-and-up, why would you want to entangle your life with hers any more than you have to, even if it is just a business deal? Steer clear. The status quo is working for you, no point in complicating it.


----------



## GusPolinski

DoF said:


> This, and OP, you ARE trying to screw her out of 33% of value of her house (any way you look at it).
> 
> Also it all goes against you "making sure your son has a home".........she will have NOTHING after such deal.


I have to disagree w/ this assessment. He gave the house to her -- a house that he'd built and was totally paid off -- lock, stock, and barrel when they divorced. So... IMO, he's completely entitled to offer such an arrangement to her free of any guilt. (And hell, he's probably due anywhere from 25K to 50K on top of that.) If she doesn't like it, she can sell the house herself and pocket the difference.

And OK, yeah... That was a term of their divorce, regardless of who proposed or offered it, and they both agreed to it. *So what?!?* He doesn't have to help her at all. His proposal gets her out from under a mountain of debt, with her retirement intact and untouched, and allows her to obtain much more affordable housing. 

If the kids are still at home, they can stay at home, but with Dad. After all this time, he's earned that. Honestly, though, I wouldn't want to live in any house in which another man had spent 5+ years f*cking the mother of my children.

None of this discussion really matters though, as she'll probably opt to sell the house anyway. The only way I can see her taking his proposal would be if he agreed to re-enter into a relationship w/ her. And what man in his right f*cking mind would do that...?!?


----------



## wilderness

DoF said:


> This, and OP, you ARE trying to screw her out of 33% of value of her house (any way you look at it).
> 
> Also it all goes against you "making sure your son has a home".........she will have NOTHING after such deal.


No way. As far as I am concerned she owes him 300k and he is just looking to take back 1/3 of what she owes him. Very generous of him, imo.


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## TheBaxter

Blondilocks said:


> His sons most likely know by now that their mother is no saint and dad is no devil. Besides, they have to be 18 & over. Not kids. They don't get to emotionally manipulate OP anymore than ex does.


To clear up the matter, my sons are now both in their 20s and living on their own. The ex lives in that big house by herself. She is unable to keep it up. The beautiful lawn and grounds that I used to keep so immaculate are overgrown. The house needs a new roof and paint badly. She is letting it get into a state of disrepair. There is no way she could sell it for $300 k unless she hires a full crew to come in and spruce things up. Only I have the money and means to make that happen. I would pay her $200,000 and them spend maybe 5,000 or so to get it spruced up to sell. 

Of course, this is all contingent on her accepting my offer. Like I say, she will probably tell me to go pound sand. And that would be okay too. I would not be out any money either way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blondilocks

I'm all for letting her live in the gutter where she belongs. Make as much money as you can.


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## alexm

Clay2013 said:


> There is no way I would put myself in any kind of a position with her. If he goes back and offers her less she will just spin it to the boys and they will just do what they already did. I would personally just walk away. Let your boys come to you on there own terms without there mother involved.
> 
> She cheated on you and lied to you what makes you think she wont make you out to be the bad guy again?
> 
> 
> Clay


I completely agree. Let her deal with the house on her own. Her problem now. If the kids are still at home with her (which many in their 20's are these days... sigh!) then they can either move to an apartment she can afford with her, or they can move in with you (which might put a crimp in your dating).

As far as your kids are concerned, you are planning to give them each 10 acres. That's huge, especially for somebody in their early 20's. IMO, that's more than enough. They're old enough to live on their own, or choose to live with their mother in some 2 bedroom apartment, or move in with you. They have choices if you don't bail your ex wife out.

Buying her (your) house from her, regardless of whether you're making a profit or not, only bails her out, which is exactly what she's looking for. It may not solve her long term problems, but it certainly solves the problems right NOW. It does nothing for the kids. Sure, you might make a small profit, but at the end of the day, what's another $70 or $80k when you've just made almost $800? It's obviously a good chunk of change, but you won't be hurting AND you haven't given your ex wife a handout in the process.

And as others have said, she asks for a dollar today, and 2 more tomorrow. If you give her even the slightest handout, she won't go away. People like this are like pigeons at the park. Feed them one day, and they'll show up for the next month waiting for you.


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## GusPolinski

TheBaxter said:


> To clear up the matter, my sons are now both in their 20s and living on their own. The ex lives in that big house by herself. She is unable to keep it up. The beautiful lawn and grounds that I used to keep so immaculate are overgrown. The house needs a new roof and paint badly. She is letting it get into a state of disrepair. There is no way she could sell it for $300 k unless she hires a full crew to come in and spruce things up. Only I have the money and means to make that happen. I would pay her $200,000 and them spend maybe 5,000 or so to get it spruced up to sell.
> 
> Of course, this is all contingent on her accepting my offer. *Like I say, she will probably tell me to go pound sand. * And that would be okay too. I would not be out any money either way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey, lots of sand at the beach!

*cough* And other stuff to "pound"...










And hey, margaritas!


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## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Hey, lots of sand at the beach!
> 
> *cough* And other stuff to "pound"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And hey, margaritas!


That's what I was looking at the margaritas.


----------



## Philat

GusPolinski said:


> Hey, lots of sand at the beach!
> 
> *cough* And other stuff to "pound"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And hey, margaritas!


Looks like a nice bunch of Polka Queens there, Gus!


----------



## bandit.45

OP if I were you I'd make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you have that talk with her. Like the others, I don't think she will go for the offer. But then again you know her better than we do. She just might surprise us all. It won't hurt to ask.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Duguesclin

Baxter, I do not know why making money off your ex wife will help.

You are obviously still hurting and I fully understand that. But how having a revenge is going to make things better for you? Unless you have expertise in real estate, I am afraid that your emotions are going to go in it and that it will be a bad deal at the end.

Look at it with the end in mind. When you die of old age, do you want to be remembered as having made of a $100k of your ex wife or having meant something important to some people.

I agree the past maybe hurtful but you will not change it. The present and the future is what is important.


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## GusPolinski

Philat said:


> Looks like a nice bunch of Polka Queens there, Gus!


Indeed! But alas, for me there is but one, and she is not shown above. 

As if I could handle more than one!


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## hookares

Never cease to amaze me how "old reliable" can all of a sudden look better to a cheater.My ex tried the same thing with me after she let the creeps shewas screwing put her in the poor house.


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## RandomDude

I fully endorse revenge actually, OP -> do what you have to do

Keep your wits about you however, I do agree that you have to ensure your emotions are kept in check. Make sure you keep ALL your bases covered. Revenge is a dish best served cold as the saying goes - be calculating, be precise.


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## LongWalk

I agree with Dug. Your need for closure is one thing. The house is sort of business opportunity with a traitor. Mixing the two up may not be pleasant for you.

How much should you "take advantage" of her? Also, the house is major trigger.

Do you want to meet her to hear her say that she thought about you the whole time she was with him?

She might even tell you that it didn't work out with him because he understood she never let go of you. Do you want to hear such nonsense, which is true would mean she was a coward.


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## NextTimeAround

No matter how much your plan may help your ex-wife, OP, I think if you gain from the same efforts as well, that will be the story that your family and (ex) friends will know.


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## Omego

Thound said:


> Let me go first. WTF! I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. Tell her to fvck herself. Plan A ruined her and dumped her, so now she wants to go with plan B. Don't be plan B. I hope this helps.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh my goodness, I nearly cried over my coffee. 

Ok, sorry for the thread jack. It's not a pleasant subject and I mean no offense-- not trying to make light of the situation.


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## lifeistooshort

No matter what you decide please keep in mind that she is looking out for her own arse, which at this moment supports kissing yours. That will change as soon as it doesn't suit her anymore. The fact that she told your kids to "fetch" you when om dumped her is quite telling, because she assumed that was an option and you'd come running. No matter what she says she is your adversary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

TheBaxter said:


> I guess there is a part of me that still loves her. But it's not really her anymore is it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You love the old hottie who couldn't do enough for you. Who you KNEW put you and the family first. Who was faithful.

This is not who she is anymore.


----------



## Convection

NextTimeAround said:


> No matter how much your plan may help your ex-wife, OP, I think if you gain from the same efforts as well, that will be the story that your family and (ex) friends will know.


Yes, exactly this.

If the plan goes off without a hitch, what narrative do you think your sons, friends, relatives, etc, will hear?

"Yeah, TheBax helped me get out from under the debt, even after all I did to him."

or

"TheBax only helped me because he made money off it. See, I told you, he's a selfish jerk. The nasty stuff I said about him before was all true."

It's your call, OP - but I would just get as far away from her as possible. The old saying goes that there is no point in getting into the mud puddle to wrestle with a pig; you just get dirty and the pig likes it.

Don't get in the mud puddle.


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## JCD

Sounds to me like you are finding a rationalization which allows you to see her and have contact with her but still keep your manly pride.

I mean...what you outlined sort of made sense. But it hasn't been your house for five years.

You aren't a sucker. You acted boldly and decisively when you found out about things.

I also note that you have three women offering you tons of sex and you are still talking about seeing her. The question then is 'why'?

As you stated, she is not exactly in your weight class anymore. This doesn't seem to matter. As you mentioned in your TMI afterglow report, you SHOULD be happy as a pig in mud.

Yet you are still coming up with fiscal schemes to put her squarely back in your life. This does not compute. But the heart isn't a computer.

Now, it could be revenge: "See who is coming crawling back to me". 

Or it could be revalidation "You thought I wasn't good enough then, but suddenly you realized what you tossed away like garbage." Nice little ego bump there.

Or you could have a strong sense of affection for her still. Hard to cut off a 23 year old appendage. It's like two river rocks together. They bump and rub and scrape against each other until they fit seamlessly.

Now your matching rock is gone and even the brief conversation was like a piece of yourself fitting back together.

But the opinions of the others bear some consideration. She behaved terribly. If throwing 200k at her makes you feel 'satisfied' at the ending of your relationship, I say do it. This has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you. Is peace of mind worth that cost? Sure.

I would be leery about entering a relationship with her. She hasn't demonstrated any particularly growth as a person. Just newly developed needs. And I don't doubt that on some level, she is missing the 'rock' which she also formed against. 

But that desire for familiarity isn't necessarily enough to make a strong relationship.

So think very hard about any moves you make and be honest.

I would consult a lawyer about how to protect your assets. I would maybe talk to a therapist to learn how to protect your heart. I am not sure you are over her.


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## Blondilocks

Why should he care what any mutual acquaintances, friends, sons or relatives think of him? They've already shown their colors. What are they going to do? Cut off his allowance? Think badly of him, again?


----------



## bandit.45

Blondilocks said:


> Why should he care what any mutual acquaintances, friends, sons or relatives think of him? They've already shown their colors. What are they going to do? Cut off his allowance? Think badly of him, again?


I tend to agree with this. It sounds like she has already damaged his old friendships beyond repair. I say if he can reclaim some of the blood sweat and tears he put into building that house, then more power to him. I don't get the sense he wants to resurrect any relationship with her. That house was a big source of pride for him. He just wants to collect on his investment. I get that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dad&Hubby

TheBaxter said:


> I don't go to church anymore. This pretty much did me in for religion. I still believe in God though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not all, but there's a high percentage of people who go to church and vocalize their Christianity as a mask for their poor character and decisions. They lie, steal, cheat...insert behavior of people with no integrity....and then go to church or espouse how they're a man/woman of christ. It's like a get out of jail free card. Instead of fixing their character, they volunteer for the pancake dinner. Instead of not selling out a friend, they donate the most to the church bazaar. Etc..etc..

It seems like you knew quite of few of these people, I'm sorry to say.


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## LongWalk

There various reads on why Bax is in this position and what he should do. In truth he is in pretty good shape. Most of all he wants closure. He would like exWW to say sorry. But he knows that whatever limited satisfaction that would bring he cannot get back together with her.

Bax if you meet her for coffee and tell calmly that a you ask her forgiveness for all your failings, perhaps it will be easier to let go of the past. Your wife will sell the house and move into something cheaper or she will keep working. It's her choice.

You can listen to her and advise her to sell if she discusses her money problems. 

Is is good for her to have any sort of hope of reconciliation? Perhaps is will just further depress her.


----------



## barbados

Baxter,

I'm curious as to why you would be considering giving your sons 10 acre parcels for free when you said how much they hurt you by siding with your wife ?

I'm not saying you shouldn't still talk to them, but that kind of generosity seems a little much in this case. Just my humble opinion.

I can tell you that if it were me, I would not do that.


----------



## TheBaxter

Barbados I'm giving my sons acreage because their grandfather wanted them to have some land. I'm seeing that one of his dying wishes is fulfilled. 

It looks like my scheme to buy her out won't happen. My real estate agent found out there is a big tax lien on her house. Not sure if it is an IRS lien or not. He is checking it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blondilocks

Baxter, I'm actually starting to feel a little sorry for your ex - when I'm not laughing at all the bandini she's rolling in.


----------



## DoF

TheBaxter said:


> Barbados I'm giving my sons acreage because their grandfather wanted them to have some land. I'm seeing that one of his dying wishes is fulfilled.
> 
> It looks like my scheme to buy her out won't happen. My real estate agent found out there is a big tax lien on her house. Not sure if it is an IRS lien or not. He is checking it out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this some kind of a news flash?

SO predictable based on what you told us about your wife. Should've been assumed.


----------



## GusPolinski

TheBaxter said:


> Barbados I'm giving my sons acreage because their grandfather wanted them to have some land. I'm seeing that one of his dying wishes is fulfilled.
> 
> It looks like my scheme to buy her out won't happen. My real estate agent found out there is a big tax lien on her house. Not sure if it is an IRS lien or not. He is checking it out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL. Just wait around and buy it on the cheap at auction.


----------



## NextTimeAround

> I also note that you have three women offering you tons of sex and you are still talking about seeing her. The question then is 'why'?


this is the kind of sh!t that makes us women ask "why bother trying to make a man happy at all."


----------



## TheBaxter

NextTimeAround said:


> this is the kind of sh!t that makes us women ask "why bother trying to make a man happy at all."


In my defense, all these women know I date others. They date other men too. I always use protection and I don't lie to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheBaxter

DoF said:


> Is this some kind of a news flash?
> 
> SO predictable based on what you told us about your wife. Should've been assumed.


There is no way I'm getting in the middle of a tax issue. Now I may still sit down with her and talk, but I haven't decided yet. My curiosity is driving my desire to. I just want to hear her spiel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NextTimeAround

TheBaxter said:


> In my defense, all these women know I date others. They date other men too. I always use protection and I don't lie to them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes, but the one who treated you the worst, is the one you want to go back to.

Think of the message that that sends........

I was abut to leave my (now) fiance as I was trying to understand why he felt that his efforts ( free meal, free cab fare) was better gifted to a woman who (he knew) was fvcking another man. Guess, I need to go out and do the same, I said to him....... His whole behavior changed completely after that discussion.....

If you'd rather date 200 pound women who sneak around fvcking other men without telling you first, well, good on you....... Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen.


----------



## Blondilocks

TheBaxter said:


> There is no way I'm getting in the middle of a tax issue. Now I may still sit down with her and talk, but I haven't decided yet. My curiosity is driving my desire to. I just want to hear her spiel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Make sure you wear the biggest cross you have, if you decide to go. It might ward off some pox she'll put on you.


----------



## Philat

TheBaxter said:


> There is no way I'm getting in the middle of a tax issue. Now I may still sit down with her and talk, but I haven't decided yet. My curiosity is driving my desire to. I just want to hear her spiel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wouldn't, but if you absolutely positively have to do not do it in person. Let her put it in writing.


----------



## TheBaxter

I want to make everyone rest assured: I am not taking her back, no matter how much fake remorse she shows. I'm merely interested in what she has to say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

She's screwed financially. If she is getting divorced, perhaps the OM has right to the house as part of communal property.

If she is having trouble tracking his assets and cash, you may be able to give her some tips.


----------



## JCD

TheBaxter said:


> I want to make everyone rest assured: I am not taking her back, no matter how much fake remorse she shows. I'm merely interested in what she has to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not sure I believe you. This isn't a challenge. We've had a number of posters (well, one I remember) who got a divorce and came to a happy place which allowed him to remarry his ex wife.

However, in that case, she wasn't desperate, so her motives weren't suspect and she had shown a lot of personal growth which didn't involve new pant sizes.

However there is the 'White Knight' gene in men that gets kicked up a notch when some blubbering wreck of a woman, particularly one he's had sex with, comes to him for help.

Without ANY direct contact, you were already working your fiscal magic to help her.

So be honest with yourself and maybe talk to some objective friends who know her and know you. That Pastor for example.

If you want to get back together with her...okay. Don't be afraid of the slings and arrows of the commenters, but make sure you are doing it for the right reasons and not so you can feel big helping her out.

This isn't the woman you thought you knew. Not anymore. She's changed.


----------



## alexm

LongWalk said:


> There various reads on why Bax is in this position and what he should do. In truth he is in pretty good shape. Most of all he wants closure. He would like exWW to say sorry. But he knows that whatever limited satisfaction that would bring he cannot get back together with her.
> 
> Bax if you meet her for coffee and tell calmly that a you ask her forgiveness for all your failings, perhaps it will be easier to let go of the past. Your wife will sell the house and move into something cheaper or she will keep working. It's her choice.
> 
> You can listen to her and advise her to sell if she discusses her money problems.
> 
> Is is good for her to have any sort of hope of reconciliation? Perhaps is will just further depress her.


I know this is kind of obvious, but it has to be said:

Anything and everything she can say at this point in time, in regards to remorse, won't be the truth. Or it will only be the truth right at that second. That is not true closure.

If she is sorry at all, it is only because she got her ass handed to her AND you're looking good to her right now. It's beer goggles, without the beer. Rose colored glasses. However you want to put it.

Most of us have to face the inevitability that we will never achieve closure, especially when it comes to exes and cheating. They will almost always tell us what we want to hear and what they think we want to hear. Things will be glossed over, sugar coated, and spun so they can achieve whatever it is THEY want to achieve at that moment.

And why is that? Because they don't (and didn't) care as much as we do. THAT'S the hard part, reconciling that somebody you cared so much about didn't about us.

5 years is not a long time, in the grand scheme of things. If I were to sit down with my ex wife at this point in time, she would still tell me what she thinks I want to hear. Now if we bump into each other when we're in our 70's, with a lifetime behind us, perhaps then she and I could talk frankly and honestly.

But right now, no way that's happening.

It only makes things worse that she's in a bad place and looking for help. The only things out of her mouth will be solely to placate you and make you feel good about yourself. When there's an agenda, people change. If you're expecting any sort of true closure, it won't be happening anytime soon. When there's an election, politicians are your best friends and promise you everything. When your kid wants something, he behaves. The second people get what they want, they go back to "normal". Until they want something else.

It's difficult, but I would take this opportunity to walk away with your head held high. The human instinct is to either purposefully make her feel bad about herself and her situation ("Serves you right") or to console her in some way ("I'm here for you"). The correct, and hardest, response to her at this point is silence, and not even the spiteful kind. When you show her that you want some sort of closure, you're showing her you still care, and that's an opening. The hardest thing to do is to let go completely. No anger and no love.

This was the hardest thing for me to do in regards to my ex wife, but I finally got there. I held a lot of anger for too long, but at the same time, I cared and worried about her. Now, I care only as much as I hope she doesn't get hit by a bus and die. Whether she's happy or not, financially stable or not, her husband is a jerk or not - I don't care. I hope she lives a long, happy and healthy life, but that's about it.


----------



## Caribbean Man

TheBaxter said:


> I want to make everyone rest assured: I am not taking her back, no matter how much fake remorse she shows. *I'm merely interested in what she has to say.*


Yes there is a reason you want to hear what she has to say, and it's called closure.

But can you trust that what she has to say will _really_ bring closure?

Sometimes in life ,in order to really progress, we have to learn how to let go of things that has the potential to keep us back.

After all that has happened ,do you really think she'll tell you the truth?
What's in it for her?
She needs money from you, you _think_ you need a story from her.
How much are you willing to pay for that story?

Make sure that your need for " closure " and / or revenge doesn't have a boomerang effect ,making you emotionally vulnerable to _her lies_.


----------



## jld

LongWalk said:


> But he knows that whatever limited satisfaction that would bring he cannot get back together with her.
> 
> Bax if you meet her for coffee and tell calmly that a you ask her forgiveness for all your failings, perhaps it will be easier to let go of the past.
> 
> You can listen to her and advise her to sell if she discusses her money problems.


Well, I may be the only one, but I doubt Baxter has been an angel in all of this. Married for 22 years, and then she leaves? I am sure she has a side of her own to this story. And all those people would not have taken her side if there were not a reason to. They knew Baxter for an awfully long time.

Bax, I would advise you to, if not meet with her (maybe not a good idea), then to write her a letter acknowledging the things you did wrong in the relationship. Indeed, the cheating is on her, but you and she know the conditions that led up to the cheating.

You may not be ready to write that letter now, but once you can, sincerely and wholeheartedly, you will be free of her. And you don't have to send it.


----------



## Lostinthought61

if you are going to meet her please be armed (psychologically speaking) I have spent a life time negotiating....so i am going to tell you a couple things that you need to know...EVERYONE HAS AN AGENDA...you could have been having dinner with mother Theresa and she would have an agenda (granted she has passed away but you get my point)...and i know you get that, but the more you know about her agenda the better position you have. Find out before you get there...ask her or ask your sons..second poker face at all times, she will try to read you and then try to poke holes in your armor by relating stories of the past or tell you how good you look, she will even flirt keep that in mind...keep things current, be as business like as you can......and be leery of any apologizes it always comes at a price. and lastly look at her body language, is she keeps moving things around the dinner table she is nervous, which could mean a couple things, she knows she is in a bad position emotionally and psychologically and perhaps financially....good luck.


----------



## Nucking Futs

jld said:


> Well, I may be the only one, but I doubt Baxter has been an angel in all of this. Married for 22 years, and then she leaves? I am sure she has a side of her own to this story. And all those people would not have taken her side if there were not a reason to. They knew Baxter for an awfully long time.
> 
> Bax, I would advise you to, if not meet with her (maybe not a good idea), then to write her a letter acknowledging the things you did wrong in the relationship. Indeed, the cheating is on her, but you and she know the conditions that led up to the cheating.
> 
> You may not be ready to write that letter now, but once you can, sincerely and wholeheartedly, you will be free of her. And you don't have to send it.


Well, either you have information about his behavior the rest of us don't have or your inherent misandry is showing through. 

You know that cheaters, male and female, lie about their BS. You know they re-write the marriage history. I'd bet you even understand why. But here, now, knowing all this, you still jump to the conclusion that he must be no angel, must be guilty of something to cause his wife to act this way, because clearly she was an angel who would only have cheated on him if he forced her to.

Why do I never see you making these assumptions about women?


----------



## Philat

intheory said:


> Wife is caught in affair; it's blatant she is at fault. SHE can leave the house. The sons should stay in the family home with dad. Isn't it obvious that that's how it should be? I don't get it.


I don't either, but I guess lots of things about divorce don't make sense.


----------



## TheBaxter

Well I'm no angel. I had lots of faults. We both did, but I thought we were happy. I never yelled at her or cut her down or beat her. Was I as romantic or as affectionate as I could have been? Probably not. But we loved each other, rarely fought. 

I spent 25 years in the oil fields working my way up from roughneck to crew boss to regional super. The last five years of our marriage I was into good money and I built our house. I spent alot of time away from home, but I thought I was building our nest egg. She stayed home and did a good job of raising two boys. I wish I could have had a job working closer to home, but I would travel 150 miles where I would work 4/12 workweeks and go home for three days at a time. I spent all those work weeks sleeping in a camp trailer. I thought my ex and I were working towards something together. I was wrong. 

Why did I let her have the house? The boys wanted to be with her more than me, they were teens, I had a place to stay with my dad, so I chose to let her have it. I thought the affair would burn out. I had no idea she would marry the piece of crap. 

He and she both trashed my name to everyone. They said I stole from our church (a lie), she said I abused her emotionally (another lie), and she accused me of sleeping with women while I was away at work (blatant lie). As a much loved teacher my wife was respected and adored in the community. I'm a shy working guy who has hung out with the same small circle of friends since I was 5. 

So, judge away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## whitehawk

TheBaxter said:


> "Nope. She is one of those women that give all women a bad name. Always looking for the next person to support her. For shame! Tell her you will do her a major favor and give her a bucket to save her tears in so she can remember why she is in this situation in the first place.
> 
> You have a few ladies giving you attention right now, why throw that away for someone who cheated on you and talked down about you? You should be happy to be rid of her. The karma bus came back and bit her right in the @ss. "
> 
> This is what I think. I have three women who I date. One of them is an old ex-friend of my wife's who hates her and couldn't wait to jump in bed with me after the divorce. One gal is an old friend of mine who lives in another town, and the third one is a local female cop. I'm getting more sex than I ever did as a teenager and I'm enjoying life.
> 
> Another reason I don't want to get back together with my ex is because she gained a ton of weight after her husband left her. She must weigh over 200 pounds now. She was always petite and sexy when we were married. Now she looks like a cow.
> 
> I think another reason she is interested in me is that I am dating all these women and I guess it irks her that I didn't just curl up and die when she divorced me.



Aside from the rest of the story yet and man , l really admire you to btw Bax.
Gotta laugh about the cow thing , at least it'll keep you thinking with the right bit eh :rofl:.
It does help doesn't it. Mine was the hottest thing on 2 legs for our first 12 yrs. Then she gradually started letting herself go and weight , then a bit more. And in our last fw years more still until she decided she wanted to sep.
Suddenly she was back to 15yrs earlier. ln the middle of it all l just wanted to fk her. Couldn't believe she finally got herself looking good again and what , then ! Of course we all know why then was but , none the less .

Anyway l'm relieved to say like nearly 2yrs later on she's just gotten bigger again, and bigger , and bigger.

Kinda helps with the divorce a bit really :smthumbup:


----------



## 6301

TheBaxter said:


> Well I'm no angel. I had lots of faults. We both did, but I thought we were happy. I never yelled at her or cut her down or beat her. Was I as romantic or as affectionate as I could have been? Probably not. But we loved each other, rarely fought.
> 
> I spent 25 years in the oil fields working my way up from roughneck to crew boss to regional super. The last five years of our marriage I was into good money and I built our house. I spent alot of time away from home, but I thought I was building our nest egg. She stayed home and did a good job of raising two boys. I wish I could have had a job working closer to home, but I would travel 150 miles where I would work 4/12 workweeks and go home for three days at a time. I spent all those work weeks sleeping in a camp trailer. I thought my ex and I were working towards something together. I was wrong.
> 
> Why did I let her have the house? The boys wanted to be with her more than me, they were teens, I had a place to stay with my dad, so I chose to let her have it. I thought the affair would burn out. I had no idea she would marry the piece of crap.
> 
> He and she both trashed my name to everyone. They said I stole from our church (a lie), she said I abused her emotionally (another lie), and she accused me of sleeping with women while I was away at work (blatant lie). As a much loved teacher my wife was respected and adored in the community. I'm a shy working guy who has hung out with the same small circle of friends since I was 5.
> 
> So, judge away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 When it comes to name calling and pointing fingers and accusations, I had the same thing happen with my first wife.

She spread some really horrible things about me and when that happens, your choices are limited.

If you get mad and try to defend yourself, the believers of her lies say that the reason your mad is because it's true and your trying to defend yourself from your guilt.

If you say nothing, the believers say that it's because you can't defend yourself because you have no defense.

All in all, it's a no win situation except that time has a way of making a wrong right.

In my case, the people who chose to believe her finally saw the light and knew that all she did was blow smoke to take any blame from her. 

Then when these same people saw me, the didn't have the guts to look me square in the eye because they knew they had a hand in cranking up the rumor mill and they had some serious egg on their face. 

It took a while but when I saw these people and they had a look on their face that was priceless, then the look was all I needed. I pasted a smile on my face and was very cordial and had about five or ten minuets of watching them squirm. What's the saying? He who laughs last, laughs best.


----------



## TheBaxter

She called again today. I'm meeting her at a coffee shop at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. 

Don't worry folks, I won't be offering her any money or taking her back. I just want to hear what she has to say for herself.


----------



## Marduk

TheBaxter said:


> She called again today. I'm meeting her at a coffee shop at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow morning.
> 
> Don't worry folks, I won't be offering her any money or taking her back. I just want to hear what she has to say for herself.


At this point, what could she possibly do or say that would help you in any way?


----------



## tom67

marduk said:


> At this point, what could she possibly do or say that would help you in any way?


Maybe he wants to tell her he is too busy with the three ladies he is screwing or just say nothing and walk away.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Why 6am?


----------



## JCD

NextTimeAround said:


> Why 6am?


Seems smart to me. Obviously there are other things going on in the day, so it's a valid excuse to cut things short if they are unpleasant.

At least I am HOPING that is his rationale. I would be horrified if he was opening the whole day for her 'just in case'.

If that is so, OP, you need to cancel and RUN to a therapist!


----------



## Stevenj

So what happened at 6am?


----------



## Truthseeker1

Baxter - I hope the coffee thing went ok..just protect yourself. She earned her appointment with the karma bus - now let her keep it. Her financial woes are just that HER financial woes. I have zero sympathy for her. I just hope you can have a good relationship with your sons. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Stevenj

I guess this will just be a cliff hanger. Wonder if OP got some.


----------



## Blondilocks

Either he is recovering from his wounds or he's enjoying the holiday.


----------



## Caribbean Man

TheBaxter said:


> She called again today. I'm meeting her at a coffee shop at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow morning.
> 
> Don't worry folks, I won't be offering her any money or taking her back. I just want to hear what she has to say for herself.


So how did that coffee shop conversation go?

Did you get the answers you wanted?


----------



## TheBaxter

We met [email protected] though she prettied herself up she still looked sloppy. We sat in a corner alone and started off talking about the boys. 
Then the conversation went about where I predicted: was I still mad at her? No. Had I forgiven her? No. Why not? She never asked for forgiveness. Would I be interested in dating? Heck no. Why not? I gave her three younger sexier reasons. She meant nothing to me anymore? Only as the mother of my boys. 

Cue weeping and croc tears.

There was no chance for us to be a couple again? Only if she lost 80 pounds and competed with the others for my attention. 

Cue righteous indignation. 

Silence. Coffee. More silence.

So she has no shot then? No, maybe if you recant all the lies you spread about me and publically apologize in front of the church. 

More silence. Frown. End of conversation, get up and leave in a huff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

TheBaxter said:


> We met [email protected] though she prettied herself up she still looked sloppy. We sat in a corner alone and started off talking about the boys.
> Then the conversation went about where I predicted: was I still mad at her? No. Had I forgiven her? No. Why not? She never asked for forgiveness. Would I be interested in dating? Heck no. Why not? I gave her three younger sexier reasons. She meant nothing to me anymore? Only as the mother of my boys.
> 
> Cue weeping and croc tears.
> 
> There was no chance for us to be a couple again? Only if she lost 80 pounds and competed with the others for my attention.
> 
> Cue righteous indignation.
> 
> Silence. Coffee. More silence.
> 
> So she has no shot then? No, maybe if you recant all the lies you spread about me and publically apologize in front of the church.
> 
> More silence. Frown. End of conversation, get up and leave in a huff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:smthumbup:
Enough said.
NEXT.


----------



## LongWalk

Awesome. It will take some time for the moral sense of what you said to sink in. But there is only one point that she'll take to heart: the fat. She may think that if only she had lost weight, you could have gotten over everything else.

She didn't talk about what great guy you were compared with the old boyfriend who took her money and dumped her.


----------



## GusPolinski

TheBaxter said:


> We met [email protected] though she prettied herself up she still looked sloppy. We sat in a corner alone and started off talking about the boys.
> Then the conversation went about where I predicted: was I still mad at her? No. Had I forgiven her? No. Why not? She never asked for forgiveness. Would I be interested in dating? Heck no. Why not? I gave her three younger sexier reasons. She meant nothing to me anymore? Only as the mother of my boys.
> 
> Cue weeping and croc tears.
> 
> There was no chance for us to be a couple again? Only if she lost 80 pounds and competed with the others for my attention.
> 
> Cue righteous indignation.
> 
> Silence. Coffee. More silence.
> 
> So she has no shot then? No, maybe if you recant all the lies you spread about me and publically apologize in front of the church.
> 
> More silence. Frown. End of conversation, get up and leave in a huff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Like a boss. :smthumbup:

:allhail:

And now...

VACATION!!!


----------



## Philat

LongWalk said:


> Awesome. It will take some time for the moral sense of what you said to sink in. *But there is only one point that she'll take to heart: the fat. She may think that if only she had lost weight, you could have gotten over everything else.*
> 
> She didn't talk about what great guy you were compared with the old boyfriend who took her money and dumped her.


Sadly (for her) this is probably true. When the thing she *should* be contemplating is this:

_ Had I forgiven her? No. Why not? She never asked for forgiveness._

Awesomely done, Bax.


----------



## TheBaxter

LongWalk said:


> Awesome. It will take some time for the moral sense of what you said to sink in. But there is only one point that she'll take to heart: the fat. She may think that if only she had lost weight, you could have gotten over everything else.
> 
> She didn't talk about what great guy you were compared with the old boyfriend who took her money and dumped her.


 p

Oh yes. He used her. He tricked her. He played her. I am her true love in life . It was all him . Of course she had no control over what happened. I told that was a lie and she was a willing conspirator and partner. Once he was through with her he dumped her .

She did not like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barbados

Well it sounds like it went pretty much as expected. 

She is looking for you to be a life raft, especially financially.


----------



## Philat

TheBaxter said:


> She did not like that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The truth hurts those who abuse it.


----------



## TheBaxter

Now my younger son is mad at me for making his mom cry. 

He will wait a,while for his ten acres.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Bax,

What goes on in your ex's head is not your business anymore.

But you were understandably curious.

One thing you might now do: write her a letter and ask her forgiveness. WTF? you retort. You were seeking closure and to some degree you got it. But to really put it all behind you in a healthy way you could consider writing her a note like this:



> Dear exWW,
> 
> Thank you for taking the initiative to have us meet up. I am sorry that I could not accept your proposal to date again. Afterwards I felt that I could have expressed the truths as I perceived them in a better way. But in the end I am not perfect.
> 
> Please forgive me. And I know that I was never perfect. I have gone over my failures and shortcomings in my mind. I could have been a better husband. I know I disappointed you at times out of carelessness, selfishness or passivity (here you could put in whatever you consider were your character flaws).
> 
> Our marriage produced beautiful children. I am grateful to you for them.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Bax


This sort of letter must be written whole heartedly. You have to mean it. Once you ask for forgiveness, you cannot do more. What she does with her unresolved problems is her business. Perhaps she will write back and say she was responsible for fvcking OM and destroying your marriage, but hey, you already knew that. She knows it, too. Accepting responsibility is another matter.

Right now you feel good about having been strong enough to see through her BS. The letter could help you to close the circle.


----------



## dblkman

Sit with your sons down and let them know their mothers behavior is unacceptable and though you will always care for her as their mother you will NEVER trust her again. They need to see that there are consequences for bad behavior and when they get married they should not take that crap either. Your youngest son will get over it.


----------



## tom67

dblkman said:


> Sit with your sons down and let them know their mothers behavior is unacceptable and though you will always care for her as their mother you will NEVER trust her again. They need to see that there are consequences for bad behavior and when they get married they should not take that crap either. Your youngest son will get over it.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## LongWalk

Bax wrote on another thread:



> Your wife is much like my ex. Very slick and manipulative. I agree with the others . Let your lawyer cut the deal. Get out of the marriage as smoothly as you can. The truth will come out eventually. She is a tramp and a liar . You are sad now but believe me in a year you will be much happier. Start dating once you get served. You dont need to sleep around, but just get with other women. It helps.


Right on.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Bravo Baxter Bravo...your my new hero.


----------



## Marduk

You've had your say Bax, and awesomely done.

Now I recommend cutting the drama off and just going and living your awesome life.


----------



## Blondilocks

Whatever failings he may have had as a husband did not cause the divorce. Asking for her forgiveness for those failings will not bring him closure. Some actions are simply unforgivable.

Why should a person who was wronged apologize to the one who wronged him? That's making the person eat a crap sandwich twice.


----------



## TheBaxter

Like i said, I was just a normal husband I think. I probably spent too much time gone and the ex got bored. I do think she got suckered by this guy to an extent. She was his third wife . It does not excuse her awful behavior though. I've told her that and told my boys that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheBaxter

Like i said, I was just a normal husband I think. I probably spent too much time gone and the ex got bored. I do think she got suckered by this guy to an extent. She was his third wife . It does not excuse her awful behavior though. I've told her that and told my boys that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper

TheBaxter said:


> Would I be interested in dating? Heck no. Why not? I gave her three younger sexier reasons.
> 
> Cue weeping and croc tears.
> 
> There was no chance for us to be a couple again? Only if she lost 80 pounds and competed with the others for my attention.
> 
> Cue righteous indignation.


----------



## Truthseeker1

TheBaxter said:


> We met [email protected] though she prettied herself up she still looked sloppy. We sat in a corner alone and started off talking about the boys.
> Then the conversation went about where I predicted: was I still mad at her? No. Had I forgiven her? No. Why not? She never asked for forgiveness. Would I be interested in dating? Heck no. Why not? I gave her three younger sexier reasons. She meant nothing to me anymore? Only as the mother of my boys.
> 
> Cue weeping and croc tears.
> 
> There was no chance for us to be a couple again? *Only if she lost 80 pounds and competed with the others for my attention*. :rofl: That line is going to sting for awhile.
> 
> Cue righteous indignation.
> 
> Silence. Coffee. More silence.
> 
> So she has no shot then? No, maybe if you recant all the lies you spread about me and publically apologize in front of the church.
> 
> More silence. Frown. End of conversation, get up and leave in a huff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well done. Those tears were not about you or the marriage but about her. This is all about her. Enjoy the rest of your life Baxter, you've earned it. Just like she's earned her date with the driver of the karma bus. :smthumbup:


----------



## wilderness

I still don't understand why you gave her a free house. Makes no sense whatsoever that you didn't at least get compensated in some way for the house. Why not tell her that if she is willing to sign ½ of the house over to you, you will consider giving her another chance? She owes you that much at the bare minimum.


----------



## LongWalk

Blondilocks said:


> Whatever failings he may have had as a husband did not cause the divorce. Asking for her forgiveness for those failings will not bring him closure. Some actions are simply unforgivable.
> 
> Why should a person who was wronged apologize to the one who wronged him? That's making the person eat a crap sandwich twice.


This letter asking forgiveness is not my invention. It was something I learned about from really savvy posters who hadn't invented it either. The reason it lives on is because it is a powerful tool, just like the 180, for example.

Bax's exWW is entirely responsible for spreading her legs because she enjoyed POSOM's flattery and lies. It says something about her judgment and character that she invited POSOM to move into her home, the house that she and Bax bought or built, and then took out a mortgage so that POSOM could live the good life for a couple of years.

Bax was earlier in the thread on the verge of getting mixed up in a business deal to save his exWW's finances or to rip her off. Nobody was sure whether he was planning on burning her or himself. He probably did not know himself. It was an emotional impulse on his part. He managed to to jettison the idea and stick to a chat over coffee.

Bax wanted the conversation to gain closure. He thought that she would or ought to have apologized for the affair and told him how sorry she was for the pain she caused him. If she had laid it on really thick, he might have hopped in the sack with her and gotten into deep trouble because she is not a good woman and she is not remorseful.

Bax has gotten partial closure by hearing her spout nonsense.

But something bad came of the meeting. She went home and cried to their sons, blaming him for hurting her. And if she presents some of the things Bax said they will not put him in a good light:



> I told your father that I was sorry I divorced him and that it was all a mistake and that I still loved him. And when I asked him if we could try to put our family back together, he said that he had three girlfriends and that I could compete against them if I wanted... _sobbing gets louder_ and then he said I had to lose 80lbs before I'd have any chance.
> 
> (Here sons get angry at Bax)
> 
> Your father is a changed man. He's become very cruel. Oh, it's all my fault for leaving him before, etc, etc.


Bax, 

You must remember that your sons don't think of their mother as a sexual being. They don't have mind movies of POSOM screwing mom. Mom is mom and POSOM was an evil step-dad. Holy shxt, poor mom.

Returning to the letter asking forgiveness:
Bax cannot change his exWW values and morality, but he sure as heck should not take the blame for her lying, cheating, disloyalty, selfishness, licentiousness, gullibility, etc. Once Bax takes responsibility for his failure, she is forced to look harder at herself. She may or may not, but Bax at least is not insisting on anything from her. Let her live with her conscience.

By asking her forgiveness Bax is freeing himself from this torment.

I don't know if it is an exact analogy, but sometimes when someone who commits a horrible murder is condemned to death the victim's mother will publicly say that they don't want the execution carried out.



> I forgive this person for what they did. I refuse to live, hating him. I don't want him to die and cause his mother so suffer as I have. I am a mother and I know what it means to lose a child.


Perhaps the murderer, if they are a sociopath, cares not a whit about the victim's mother. Or perhaps it moves him deeply to know what complete azzhole loser he has been. 

I can also understand the desire for revenge. Personally, I suppose watching someone get a lethal injection would be anti climatic. It would be a better release to see them hanged or shot, but I digress. The point is letting go can bring peace.

But this something that comes to complete the healing process, not to make the BS a doormat.

I don't know if I have explained this well. Maybe someone else has a link to some better explanation.


----------



## Blondilocks

It really doesn't seem as if Baxter is in torment. He told her he isn't mad at her anymore. Meeting for coffee was an opportunity for the wife to apologize/ask for forgiveness. She didn't. Case closed.

He might still be holding onto some anger especially since his wife and son seem to think he should just get over it and make mom happy. He doesn't have to pretend he isn't angry.


----------



## thatbpguy

I think you handled everything just fine. You gave her no false hope. You did not forgive her- I think betrayals and lying about a person are unforgivable sins, unless fully amended. We are all accountable for our actions. She is living the life she bargained for. You have zero responsibilities to her.

The betrayal, the lies... and now she has been dumped (for whatever reasons) she looks back to you. That's pretty cold blooded if you ask me.

As to your son, talk to him like a man. She betrayed you. She lied viscious lies about you. And now when her lover was through with her she just naturally she could walk back to you. Life doesn't work that way. Were he my son, I'd tell him those words right between the eyes and tell him he's no longer a boy, he's a man and to start acting like one.


----------



## TheBaxter

I already had that heart to heart talk with my boys. Told them their mother cheated and lied and that I was not the villain. They didn't care. They only cared about who was holding the purse strings. My ex spoiled them and bought them anything they wanted. I was the responsible one so of course was the bad guy. .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Duguesclin

TheBaxter said:


> Now my younger son is mad at me for making his mom cry.
> 
> He will wait a,while for his ten acres.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Baxter, I would be your son, I would be mad too.

It is sad that your relationship with him is tied to those 10 acres.

Isn't there a better solution?


----------



## thatbpguy

TheBaxter said:


> I already had that heart to heart talk with my boys. Told them their mother cheated and lied and that I was not the villain. They didn't care. They only cared about who was holding the purse strings. My ex spoiled them and bought them anything they wanted. I was the responsible one so of course was the bad guy. .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If they are so easily bought, then let them stew. Maybe some day they will grow to being men.


----------



## tom67

thatbpguy said:


> If they are so easily bought, then let them stew. Maybe some day they will grow to being men.


Well they would be scratched off my will.


----------



## TheBaxter

I will deed the 10 acres to my younger son when he grows up and demonstrates some responsibility.


----------



## TheBaxter

"Baxter, I would be your son, I would be mad too.

It is sad that your relationship with him is tied to those 10 acres.

Isn't there a better solution?"



It has nothing to do with the land. It has to do with respect. Like his mother, my younger son respects no one. He's 21, he's greedy and materialistic just like her. I did everything I could to teach that boy good morals and to be a man, but it didn't take. His older brother was spoiled rotten also, but he and I managed to stay close even when we were often angry with each other. We enjoy each other's company now.


----------



## tom67

TheBaxter said:


> I will deed the 10 acres to my younger son when he grows up and demonstrates some responsibility.


Baxter bad enough the betrayal of pos wife but the kids (who are old enough to know better)

Eh mommy isn't going to have a bunch of money for them much longer.
God that p!sses me off.


----------



## TheBaxter

I forgot to tell you all that I did find out from my realtor that there is an IRS lien on her house. I don't know how much for.


----------



## Noble1

Thanks for sharing your story and follow up. Sounds like you handled things very well.

Sad to hear about your relationship with your sons, but like you mentioned, they are adults now and you did what you could to bring them up right.

Keep your head high and keep strong.


----------



## Duguesclin

TheBaxter said:


> "Baxter, I would be your son, I would be mad too.
> 
> It is sad that your relationship with him is tied to those 10 acres.
> 
> Isn't there a better solution?"
> 
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with the land. It has to do with respect. Like his mother, my younger son respects no one. He's 21, he's greedy and materialistic just like her. I did everything I could to teach that boy good morals and to be a man, but it didn't take. His older brother was spoiled rotten also, but he and I managed to stay close even when we were often angry with each other. We enjoy each other's company now.


So basically your younger son has to change before you are willing to have a relationship with him? So it is your son's responsibility to make a relationship with you.

Getting old without your sons might be lonely.


----------



## tom67

Duguesclin said:


> So basically your younger son has to change before you are willing to have a relationship with him? So it is your son's responsibility to make a relationship with you.
> 
> Getting old without your sons might be lonely.


If you read he gets along fine with the older one it's just the younger.


----------



## LongWalk

Bax,

I sympathize with you. You have legitimate reason for anger. But you need to go to 50,000ft.

When your ex betrayed you she betrayed her sons at a crucial time in their lives. Son21 was 16 when mom was fornicating with an old boyfriend instead of being responsible for being mom. When she was supposed be cooking dinner or whatever, she was thinking about what panties to wear for POSOM. She was watching her weight to keep his sweet words coming.

Your son was messed up by this.

You did not respond to what I wrote earlier:



> I told your father that I was sorry I divorced him and that it was all a mistake and that I still loved him. And when I asked him if we could try to put our family back together, he said that he had three girlfriends and that I could compete against them if I wanted... sobbing gets louder and then he said I had to lose 80lbs before I'd have any chance.
> 
> (Here sons get angry at Bax)
> 
> Your father is a changed man. He's become very cruel. Oh, it's all my fault for leaving him before, etc, etc.


Isn't your wife manipulating him to hurt you? And him?

You need to do more than lecture her.

Did son21 go to college? What does he do for a living?


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## TheBaxter

Both boys chose not to go to college. My younger son works at an auto supply. My older one is a logger. There are other reasons my younger son and I don't get along well. My sons know nothing about the land inheritance yet, so the issue about the 10 acres is not an issue.

I'm steward of my dad's land (well my land now) and I will choose when my boys get their inheritance. My younger son will get his share, just not anytime in the near future. If I see some maturity, some goal setting, some responsibility, then I will give him his allotment. I cannot control what my ex tells them. They are both smart boys. If they cannot figure out the truth, there is little I can do. Beating them over the heads with their mom's stupidity will not solve the issue. They know what I know, they know what I feel. If they cannot use that knowledge to make the right decisions then there is nothing I can do. Dr. Phil books can't fix this. Armchair psychology won't work here.


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## barbados

Baxter,

Its refreshing to hear a parent in this day and age being responsible towards his kids and not just caving into their every want. You are being a parent !

Stay strong.


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## TheBaxter

I love my boys. I would lay down my life for them. They know that, I've told them so. I'm not a cold monster of a dad like many here are making me out to be.


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## LongWalk

She'll have to move out of house. That will hurt, but it is her fault, not yours. Your sons will understand that some day.


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## Chaparral

You should see how much the tax lien is. Your original idea mightt still work. If she loses everything it could make the situation with your sons worse.


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## theroad

TheBaxter said:


> Thank you all for your insights. Reading through your posts has steeled my resolve to do what I need to do, which is to reject her utterly.
> 
> But I'm also hatching a plan. I'm having my current property appraised this week, and if it is as valuable as I think it is, I may have a way to make myself a big pile of money and help the ex with her financial predicament at the same time, thus getting her off my back forever. But I have to get the numbers. That means I need to meet with her to find out how deep in the red she is.
> 
> I spent an exhausting night with cop lady last night, and in the afterglow I lay there thinking "why on earth would I ever give this up and even go back to that porker I divorced?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Are you crazy?

Yes you are.

How does everyone know this?

Because you want to reward WW for banging the OM by paying off her debts.

Is that clear enough?

If the answer is anything but YES then you are learning impaired and crazy.


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## theroad

TheBaxter said:


> What is a troll? Here is my plan if it works. Currently I am living on my deceased dad's farm. It is 200 acres of good farmland, with two barns, a two story turn of the century house that has been completely refurbished and upgraded, a fully functioning silo,conveyor and a bunch of farm equipment.
> 
> At auction I could probably get $30,000 for the equipment. I will cede two ten acre parcels to my sons for their use. The other 180 acres and house I will sell. I'm pretty sure I could get upwards of $750,000. My son figures his mom owes around $200,000 in debts, because that is what she took the mortgage out on our home when her husband moved in. If I can get the farm sold for what I want, then I will turn around and pay her $200,000 cash for the house and five acres it sits on.
> 
> She will move out and go live her life. I will then flip the house for its appraised value of $300,000 or so and make $100,000 in equity.
> 
> All of that money, the money from the sale of the farm and the sale of my ex's house will make me a fat nestegg.


There may be a day when one or both of your son's will want to keep grandpa's farm intact and in the family.


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## GusPolinski

theroad said:


> Are you crazy?
> 
> Yes you are.
> 
> How does everyone know this?
> 
> Because you want to reward WW for banging the OM by paying off her debts.
> 
> Is that clear enough?
> 
> If the answer is anything but YES then you are learning impaired and crazy.


Maybe finish reading through the thread first...


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## theroad

GusPolinski said:


> Maybe finish reading through the thread first...


I just did and stand behind what I wrote.

Also that IRS lien can be that the OM shady as he is could be in trouble with the IRS. Even though WW did nothing wrong she did marry the OM. And the IRS holds the spouse just as liable as the offending spouse.


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## Blondilocks

Since your son is on his mom's side, let him bail her out. He could move back home and give his rent money to mom. We both know that won't happen.


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## Nucking Futs

I would avoid that house like the plague now. No matter what happens, if you end up buying it at auction or you buy her out and pay off all the debts on it or whatever you do, your youngest is going to blame you for stealing his mothers house if you don't just give it back to her. Bank on it.


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## TheBaxter

I'm not going to make her an offer on the house. That idea is dead. I know now I should never have given it to her, but hindsight is 20-20. I learned my lesson.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HobbesTheTiger

Hi. So sorry to hear what you've been going through. Have you thought about offering to pay for counselling for your sons to go to? I know counselling helped me a lot when I started in my early/mid twenties.

Best wishes!


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## dblkman

TheBaxter said:


> I'm not going to make her an offer on the house. That idea is dead. I know now I should never have given it to her, but hindsight is 20-20. I learned my lesson.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


a life lesson, we live and learn......at this point if I were you I would terminate all communication with her (unless emergency dealing with your son). After my last son turned 18 and moved on his own I permanently terminated contact with my ex and trust when I say I am better off.


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## loveadvice

TheBaxter said:


> "Nope. She is one of those women that give all women a bad name. Always looking for the next person to support her. For shame! Tell her you will do her a major favor and give her a bucket to save her tears in so she can remember why she is in this situation in the first place.
> 
> You have a few ladies giving you attention right now, why throw that away for someone who cheated on you and talked down about you? You should be happy to be rid of her. The karma bus came back and bit her right in the @ss. "
> 
> This is what I think. I have three women who I date. One of them is an old ex-friend of my wife's who hates her and couldn't wait to jump in bed with me after the divorce. One gal is an old friend of mine who lives in another town, and the third one is a local female cop. I'm getting more sex than I ever did as a teenager and I'm enjoying life.
> 
> Another reason I don't want to get back together with my ex is because she gained a ton of weight after her husband left her. She must weigh over 200 pounds now. She was always petite and sexy when we were married. Now she looks like a cow.
> 
> I think another reason she is interested in me is that I am dating all these women and I guess it irks her that I didn't just curl up and die when she divorced me.


If a woman were sleeping with three men at the same time, I think she would be thought of poorly.

I place no judgment on you, but I hope u are protecting yourself from diseases. Those women could be in turn sleeping with other men and bringing back diseases to you.


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## LongWalk

LoveAdvice,

There is a double standard in the way people see sex. But that is human nature.


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## LBHmidwest

sorry you are going through all this after five years


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## TheBaxter

loveadvice said:


> If a woman were sleeping with three men at the same time, I think she would be thought of poorly.
> 
> I place no judgment on you, but I hope u are protecting yourself from diseases. Those women could be in turn sleeping with other men and bringing back diseases to you.


Thank you for your concern. I do use condoms whenever I sleep with these women. 

And I want to point out that they are not my revolving harem. I sleep with the police gal more than the other two. I have not slept with my lady friend from the other town in over a month. My ex's ex-girlfriend and I get together maybe two or three times a month, usually at her instigation, and even then we don't always end up in bed. Sometimes we just hang out and have fun.


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## TheBaxter

LongWalk said:


> LoveAdvice,
> 
> There is a double standard in the way people see sex. But that is human nature.


My ex actually had the gall to call me immoral for sleeping with her ex-friend. She hates her to no end now. They used to be like two peas in a pod.


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## TheBaxter

Anyway, I heard from my older son this evening that his mom saw a bankruptcy attorney last week. Guess things are falling apart in her pathetic little world.


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## LongWalk

Did her ex cheat her?

He probably has no assets.

Her desire to have you back is insulting and deferential all at the same time. The tragedy is hers.


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## barbados

TheBaxter said:


> Anyway, I heard from my older son this evening that his mom saw a bankruptcy attorney last week. Guess things are falling apart in her pathetic little world.


... and thank the lord its not your problem anymore. Whatever you do stay strong like you have been and don't let your sons cajole you into helping her out financially. She was the cheater who caused all of this, not you.

Adults actions have real consequences and I guess she is learning that the hard way now.


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## GusPolinski

TheBaxter said:


> My ex actually had the gall to call me immoral for sleeping with her ex-friend. She hates her to no end now. They used to be like two peas in a pod.


Vacation time!


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## NotLikeYou

loveadvice said:


> If a woman were sleeping with three men at the same time, I think she would be thought of poorly.
> 
> I place no judgment on you, but I hope u are protecting yourself from diseases. Those women could be in turn sleeping with other men and bringing back diseases to you.


Think of men as being keys. They try to fit into as many locks as they can, and any lock they can turn, they get to have sex with. A key that opens many locks is considered a skeleton key, and is valuable, as far as keys go.

Now think of women as being locks. They will only have sex if a key fits and unlocks them. A lock that opens to many keys isn't as valuable as a lock that only opens to one key.

Next, think of a lock that has a butterfly tattoo on its backside, up near the top. You can be pretty sure that lock has been keyed open more than once.

Then, think about a key that has a small piece of paper with some kind of hand written identification on it, secured to the key with a piece of tape so that you don't confuse it with other keys.

I'm not sure where I was actually going with that, it just seemed like with a little effort I could take the locks and keys analogies a step further.


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## TheBaxter

LongWalk said:


> Did her ex cheat her?
> 
> He probably has no assets.
> 
> Her desire to have you back is insulting and deferential all at the same time. The tragedy is hers.


All I know through my sons is that her husband had her take loans out against the house and property to pay off his debts from a failed business.

As for why they split up I have no idea. Nor have I wasted any effort to find out. I hope he did cheat on her, so she could feel a little of the betrayal and heartache I went through. But then I remember she is a selfish narcissist and even if he did cheat on her it would not teach her any lesson.


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## TheBaxter

GusPolinski said:


> Vacation time!


Actually me and the cop lady are thinking about going on a weekend to Las Vegas later next month.


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## LongWalk

I understand your pain. She not only gave herself to POSOM; she even through her money away on him. He seduced her and deceived her. She was the sugar mama. Your sons are hurting from this.

Hopefully her equity is not totally wiped out and she will be able to get a condo or something.


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## GusPolinski

TheBaxter said:


> Actually me and the cop lady are thinking about going on a weekend to Las Vegas later next month.


Take plenty of pics!


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## Nucking Futs

GusPolinski said:


> Take plenty of pics!


I agree, take plenty of pics. Get some of vegas too.


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## TheBaxter

Nucking Futs said:


> I agree, take plenty of pics. Get some of vegas too.


Hey that's funny. She is photo worthy. A real good looking woman. Not overly pretty but cute and she has a fantastic body. 

Funny story here: the first time I went out with her I ran into the ex and her husband. She saw us together and got this real angry look on her face and left. Cop gal asked me who she was and I told her she was my ex wife. Cop gal laughed and told me she had given the ex a ticket for running a stop sign that same morning!


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## tom67

TheBaxter said:


> Hey that's funny. She is photo worthy. A real good looking woman. Not overly pretty but cute and she has a fantastic body.
> 
> Funny story here: the first time I went out with her I ran into the ex and her husband. She saw us together and got this real angry look on her face and left. Cop gal asked me who she was and I told her she was my ex wife. Cop gal laughed and told me she had given the ex a ticket for running a stop sign that same morning!


:lol::lol::rofl::rofl:


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## Truthseeker1

TheBaxter said:


> Hey that's funny. She is photo worthy. A real good looking woman. Not overly pretty but cute and she has a fantastic body.
> 
> Funny story here: the first time I went out with her I ran into the ex and her husband. She saw us together and got this real angry look on her face and left. Cop gal asked me who she was and I told her she was my ex wife. Cop gal laughed and told me she had given the ex a ticket for running a stop sign that same morning!


Sometimes things are just perfect aren't they? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

You're dating the cop who gave her a ticket, if you put that in a a movie the audience wouldn't believe it. :thumbup:


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## GusPolinski

TheBaxter said:


> Hey that's funny. She is photo worthy. A real good looking woman. Not overly pretty but cute and she has a fantastic body.
> 
> Funny story here: the first time I went out with her I ran into the ex and her husband. She saw us together and got this real angry look on her face and left. Cop gal asked me who she was and I told her she was my ex wife. Cop gal laughed and told me she had given the ex a ticket for running a stop sign that same morning!


Ha ha!


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## Truthseeker1

TheBaxter said:


> I’ve been lurking on this website for a couple days and wondered if I could get some advice.
> 
> I will make this as short as I can: I’m a 51 year old man. I’ve been divorced from my ex-wife, going on five years next month. My ex and I were married 23 years. In year 22 of our marriage she had a six-month long sexual affair with an old boyfriend from her college days. I knew nothing about the affair until one of our two sons, the older boy, told me what was going on. I hired a private eye and he tracked my wife and her old boyfriend to his apartment about twenty-five miles from the town where we live. She had gone out that day on the pretext of spending the day shopping, when in reality she was spending the day with him.
> 
> The P.I. got me pictures and times and I confronted her the next week. She admitted to the affair and I immediately moved out and went to live with my elderly dad across town. I filed for divorce that same week. She continued on with her affair with the boyfriend. After our divorce was final a year or so later she and him got married. It was a great big wedding, with all our old friends attending, and even my sons went. I of course felt deeply insulted and betrayed by this, as I felt my sons and friends should have supported me. Instead they supported my cheating ex. I cut off all contact with these old friends, and my relationship with my two boys has been strained from that point onwards. We don’t talk often. I used to be very close to my boys but I guess they felt closer to their mom.
> 
> I guess it was not the happy marriage she was hoping for, because he left her last year and their divorce will be final sometime this month. He also left her with a huge pile of debt. When I divorced her I gave her our paid-off house (that I built) and five acres of land worth about $250,000. Her new husband moved in with her. My son told me that she took out a new mortgage on the house to pay off her husband’s debt a year or so before they split up. She is a teacher and will be retiring here in the next couple of years and there is no way she can make the mortgage now, since payments will be well over $1,500 a month.
> 
> Well guess who has been calling me out of the blue lately? Yep. You guessed it. My ex-wife now all of a sudden has warm glowing memories of our marriage. She called me yesterday and asked me how I was doing. Then she proceeded to tell me that she misses me and wants us to start dating again. I told her that was funny, since this was the first time in five years she had called me or even deigned to talk to me. I also pointed out that she had also done a good job of vilifying me to everyone we knew, telling everyone in her family and all our acquaintances what a tyrant and horrible husband I had been to her. Of course she said that that wasn’t true and that was all exaggerated. Anyways, she wants to get together this coming weekend for dinner.
> 
> I am single, have been dating and I have been enjoying my life as a bachelor. I have lots of lady friends who share their time with me and I don’t really feel like ever getting married again.
> 
> So I guess my question is, should I meet with her to hear what she has to say? I know that her money problems are at the heart of her sudden re-interest in me. I guess I have a sort of morbid curiosity about what she is going to say. There are a lot of things I would like to say to her and none of them very nice. I just wonder if meeting with her is a good idea. I’m afraid that only more pain will come of it.


Hey @TheBaxter any updates on your situation?


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## GusPolinski

Truthseeker1 said:


> Hey Baxter any updates on your situation?


Eh... he hasn't logged into TAM in over a year. You'll probably want to either tag him (i.e. @TheBaxter) or PM him to get his attention.


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## Truthseeker1

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... he hasn't logged into TAM in over a year. You'll probably want to either tag him (i.e. @TheBaxter) or PM him to get his attention.


Thanks Gus! This is one story I definitely wanted to know how it ended his XW is a real piece of work.


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## GusPolinski

Truthseeker1 said:


> Thanks Gus! This is one story I definitely wanted to know how it ended his XW is a real piece of work.


Ditto. I've actually been tempted to PM the guy for an update a couple of times myself.


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## Truthseeker1

GusPolinski said:


> Ditto. I've actually been tempted to PM the guy for an update a couple of times myself.


The absolute lack of character exhibited by some people never ceases to amaze me..


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## Pollo

Wow, what a *****. Tell her to f off.

I feel bad that your friends and sons showed you such disrespect by going to their wedding. Good luck man.


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## hookares

It seems the wayward ones can always remember the betray-ed's contributions to a twenty year marriage anytime 
things don't work out well for them. This is true regardless of how many replacements are given a tryout.


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## Truthseeker1

Bump


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## LongWalk

Baxter told a good story.

I really wondered what happened to the guy whose wife was seduced by the tennis pro. Man that guy had it tough.


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## TX-SC

That was a fun read!


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## Truthseeker1

TX-SC said:


> That was a fun read!


I do wish he would come back an update his situation.


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## NoMoreTears4me

TheBaxter said:


> I’ve been lurking on this website for a couple days and wondered if I could get some advice.
> 
> I will make this as short as I can: I’m a 51 year old man. I’ve been divorced from my ex-wife, going on five years next month. My ex and I were married 23 years. In year 22 of our marriage she had a six-month long sexual affair with an old boyfriend from her college days. I knew nothing about the affair until one of our two sons, the older boy, told me what was going on. I hired a private eye and he tracked my wife and her old boyfriend to his apartment about twenty-five miles from the town where we live. She had gone out that day on the pretext of spending the day shopping, when in reality she was spending the day with him.
> 
> The P.I. got me pictures and times and I confronted her the next week. She admitted to the affair and I immediately moved out and went to live with my elderly dad across town. I filed for divorce that same week. She continued on with her affair with the boyfriend. After our divorce was final a year or so later she and him got married. It was a great big wedding, with all our old friends attending, and even my sons went. I of course felt deeply insulted and betrayed by this, as I felt my sons and friends should have supported me. Instead they supported my cheating ex. I cut off all contact with these old friends, and my relationship with my two boys has been strained from that point onwards. We don’t talk often. I used to be very close to my boys but I guess they felt closer to their mom.
> 
> I guess it was not the happy marriage she was hoping for, because he left her last year and their divorce will be final sometime this month. He also left her with a huge pile of debt. When I divorced her I gave her our paid-off house (that I built) and five acres of land worth about $250,000. Her new husband moved in with her. My son told me that she took out a new mortgage on the house to pay off her husband’s debt a year or so before they split up. She is a teacher and will be retiring here in the next couple of years and there is no way she can make the mortgage now, since payments will be well over $1,500 a month.
> 
> Well guess who has been calling me out of the blue lately? Yep. You guessed it. My ex-wife now all of a sudden has warm glowing memories of our marriage. She called me yesterday and asked me how I was doing. Then she proceeded to tell me that she misses me and wants us to start dating again. I told her that was funny, since this was the first time in five years she had called me or even deigned to talk to me. I also pointed out that she had also done a good job of vilifying me to everyone we knew, telling everyone in her family and all our acquaintances what a tyrant and horrible husband I had been to her. Of course she said that that wasn’t true and that was all exaggerated. Anyways, she wants to get together this coming weekend for dinner.
> 
> I am single, have been dating and I have been enjoying my life as a bachelor. I have lots of lady friends who share their time with me and I don’t really feel like ever getting married again.
> 
> So I guess my question is, should I meet with her to hear what she has to say? I know that her money problems are at the heart of her sudden re-interest in me. I guess I have a sort of morbid curiosity about what she is going to say. There are a lot of things I would like to say to her and none of them very nice. I just wonder if meeting with her is a good idea. I’m afraid that only more pain will come of it.


I read this and dream of this day. Not to take my ex back but to have the opportunity to laugh in her face and slam the door. Your a lucky man. Some don't get this opportunity to tell their ex to piss off. 

One day I want to be like you!


----------

