# Brother-in-law, boundaries



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Okay, just a quick informal poll to see if I crossed a boundary here (I think I did, but, I also think I did the "right" thing.)

My wife has known her best friend for about 20 years now. She's actually a really cool woman, and to us (not just my wife), she's family. She's "aunt" to our kids, and we're "aunt and uncle" to hers.

My wife's brother is a good guy, same age as us, but sexually and dating-wise, he's got the mentality of a 17 year old boy, with no exaggeration. We all love him, but we also all know how... gross... he is when it comes to that aspect. He's a hound dog

So the 4 of us are supposed to get together on the weekend and hang out, maybe have a few drinks and watch a movie.

I sent him a msg the other day to make sure he was still on (he's pretty flaky that way...). His response:

him: "wouldn't miss it for the world. I can finally get into ____'s pants!"

me: "dude, she's your sisters best friend and is pretty much family"

him: "yeah, but she's into me! Ask (your wife). She told me she wishes she met me before (father of her children, long gone)"

me: "but she's like your sister..."

him: "yeah, a sister I could nail! lol"

me: "Good luck with that. So what time you coming over?"

him: "I don't need luck, I'm gonna nail her"


And I left it at that. Ugh.


So, apart from the obvious awkwardness and disgust I felt at his choice of wording (I'm GOING to. She's into me. I can finally... etc.) I sat on it for a day or so. I mentioned it to my wife who more or less brushed it off, but also said she didn't recall her, or her friend, saying anything like that. But she was also uncomfortable with it, but whatever. My wife's like that - cool and relaxed.

Here's the thing - her friend is a straight-up feminist and despises when men talk like that, presumptively, mysogonistically, etc. She's obviously known him for the same amount of time, DOES like him, but also knows full well how he is in regards to women. She's had numerous comments and polite conversations with him in regards to his choice of words, and he's always very unapologetic. She also regards him as family, which is very clear.

So here's where I may have over-stepped my boundaries: I told her of this conversation, and his wording. She can certainly handle herself, and she's an adult and doesn't need protecting, but... gross... I made sure to tell her that I only gave her a heads up due to his choice of wording, not necessarily his intentions. I know the bro code. But I also felt like she might have been ambushed a little bit if he made some moves on her.

Now to be fair - I don't KNOW for certain that she would turn him down, I only assumed that. A very fair assumption, but, stranger things have happened. I know that she regards him as extended family, and her best friends brother, and she's also very aware of his escapades, but I'm not in her head. But based on that, I made the assumption, an educated guess, that this is the last thing she would have expected, and may very well have been totally blindsided and disgusted if he crossed into that territory with her.

Should I have left it alone and just watched it unfold?


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

*Re: Brither-in-law, boundaries*

If I were in your shoes, I would have probably done the same thing.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I honestly would have left it alone. You said it yourself, so why get involved  :redcard:



> She can certainly handle herself, and she's an adult and doesn't need protecting


I would imagine your bro in law would not be too happy that a conversation he had with you got passed on to her (regardless of how crude he may be in general he may have really been "bro-ing" it up thinking he was just talking to another guy).


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I would understand your concerns if you said you would rather not see it happen cause if it did and it ends badly you dont want the relationships you have to sour. But you didnt. She is a big girl who can handle herself and she knows the BIL character. If she choses to have something with the guy she is going into it with her eyes open. I think you over stepped.
But I think your intentions were good.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Pretty sure a true Straight Up Feminist wouldn't really be very appreciative of getting patronized that way either.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I would have told her and wouldn't give a tinkers damn if he got pissed or not. The guy needs to grow up and act like an adult.

His behavior and attitude is like some 14 year old high school kid and he's old enough to keep a respectful tongue in his head. It doesn't matter if the lady is the BF of his sister or a total stranger. That kind of talk and actions isn't needed or acceptable. Once in a while we all say something that might be a bit of color and taken as a joke but this guy has a problem that he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.

If he would get pissed of at you, I would tell him "too damn bad. Grow up and act like an adult" Some day he might open his mouth to the wrong person and find himself picking himself up off the floor.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I wouldn't have said anything. Your BIL won't trust you now.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

this is a woman that is family. an aunt to your children, and your wife's best friend.
your motives were simply to see to her well being.

if this woman was your actual sister, you would warn her.
she still has the opportunity to make her own informed choice.
i see no problem.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

Man seriously what you did was very sneaky. If I am talking with a guy about something I expect the guy to have the decency to keep his mouth shut.

You were way out of line telling on him.

Maybe the best is to politely tell the lady that your bro-in-law must be really wanting to be with her. But to use the words he used in a private conversation....no. Not done.

Bro Code Violation.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

alexm said:


> Should I have left it alone and just watched it unfold?


I think so yes. He was just having some 'locker room talk'. Maybe he didn't really even think he had a chance. She can probably take care of herself anyway.

Another perspective: even though the terminology was crude, she now knows that he finds her attractive, which is always nice.

Unless he's the kind of guy who finds anyone with a pulse attractive... I don't know.

Anyway, not a big deal.... you didn't do anything wrong.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

If someone told one of my brothers, or my best guy friend that they were going to get into my pants. or "nail me". They would have beaten him up. in fact, that did happen, several times. _That's_ the bro code. some "bro" talks s**t about members of the family, and you give them a black eye and send them on their way. Anyone not family and you keep your mouth shut.

if your kids call her aunt, then he got off easy.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> If someone told one of my brothers, or my best guy friend that they were going to get into my pants. or "nail me". They would have beaten him up. in fact, that did happen, several times. _That's_ the bro code. some "bro" talks s**t about members of the family, and you give them a black eye and send them on their way. Anyone not family and you keep your mouth shut.
> 
> if your kids call her aunt, then he got off easy.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> this is a woman that is family. an aunt to your children, and your wife's best friend.
> your motives were simply to see to her well being.
> 
> if this woman was your actual sister, you would warn her.
> ...


In all fairness, you could argue the BIL is more "family" than the best friend since he is actually a blood relative to his wife. Not arguing that someone not blood can't be considered family, just that the BIL is as much family as this "aunt"


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> In all fairness, you could argue the BIL is more "family" than the best friend since he is actually a blood relative to his wife. Not arguing that someone not blood can't be considered family, just that the BIL is as much family as this "aunt"


OK. you're correct. If it's a little incestuous, that makes it less wrong.

gross.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> OK. you're correct. If it's a little incestuous, that makes it less wrong.
> 
> gross.


Lol, that is not what I meant. You were talking about the female as family, but what gets lost is the BIL is actually family as well, not just some friend or random dude. That is why I believe the OP should have exercised more caution.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> Lol, that is not what I meant. You were talking about the female as family, but what gets lost is the BIL is actually family as well, not just some friend or random dude. That is why I believe the OP should have exercised more caution.


well. his kids call her "aunt" and that guy "uncle"

ew.
and the BIL is a putz. eg:
me: "but she's like your sister..."
him: "yeah, a sister I could nail! lol"


sometimes we have to make tough choices.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

alexm,

BIL and the Auntie are either/both married/relationship? 

If yes to above then you should also have told the SO of Auntie also.

If no you should have told your W about the conversation, only because there should be no secrets between spouses.

BILs are a difficult subject, because they are in the family, you have to see them from time to time. 

My BIL, my W sisters H, tried to have sex with my W when I was dating her, I want to bust him to his W now, but my W is mostly against the idea.

Tamat


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OP - did you at least tell your BIL that you relayed his exact conversation to her? Shouldn't he at least know that so he isn't ambushed?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bro code? Really? Talking like that about a woman, especially one who is so close that she's like family is just wrong.


The problem I see with the BIL is that, from what alexm posted, the BIL actually believes what he's saying. It was a kindness to the friend to warn her so that she knows that the BIL's "friendship" is based on his wanting to "hit that". Now that she knows, if she's not interested it the BIL, she knows that he's a potential problem and she can make sure to keep him at a distance.

Alexm, I think you did the right thing.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Are you afraid that he'll game your family friend? That she won't see him for what he really is, even though you explicitly say everyone in the family knows about him? 

If the answer to that question is "no", then what this really boils down to is you trying to enforce your code of behavior on your BIL. Correct? Otherwise, he can't hurt anyone but himself. That's his problem to fix, not yours.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

alexm said:


> him: "I don't need luck, I'm gonna nail her"


And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he does just that, with her enjoying every minute of it...until he tells the whole family.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

alexm said:


> Okay, just a quick informal poll to see if I crossed a boundary here (I think I did, but, I also think I did the "right" thing.)
> 
> My wife has known her best friend for about 20 years now. She's actually a really cool woman, and to us (not just my wife), she's family. She's "aunt" to our kids, and we're "aunt and uncle" to hers.
> 
> ...


What's going to bake your noodle is when it turns out that the feminist really is into him!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I think I probably would not have said anything. I'd make sure the friend didn't get into a situation (drunk, maybe alone in the car) with BIL. I'd also watch the conversation between the two to make sure it didn't get inappropriate given the "family" situation.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

sixty-eight said:


> this is a woman that is family. an aunt to your children, and your wife's best friend.
> your motives were simply to see to her well being.
> 
> if this woman was your actual sister, you would warn her.
> ...


And that's the thing, that's how I (and my wife) see her. She's truly not "just" a family friend.

Here's the deal - BIL is flaky, and generally stays away from the family and does his own thing. He bails on many, many family functions, usually at the last minute, and the entire family is very used to it. My wife and I see him maybe 4 or 5 times a year, if that.

My wife's friend, on the other hand, we see her that often per month, sometimes more. Her kids are similar ages to ours, and often hang out with each other. They refer to each other as "cousins", and to her as "aunt".

And yes, he's a real, blood uncle, sure, but to us, as well as the kids, they're all family.

So yeah, it's gross, even if it's technically not wrong.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EllisRedding said:


> In all fairness, you could argue the BIL is more "family" than the best friend since he is actually a blood relative to his wife. Not arguing that someone not blood can't be considered family, just that the BIL is as much family as this "aunt"


You are absolutely right, but, as I said in the reply above, he's generally not around and doesn't really play the "uncle" thing.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

TAMAT said:


> alexm,
> 
> BIL and the Auntie are either/both married/relationship?
> 
> ...


No, neither are married or in relationships. He by choice.

I did tell my wife about it, the next time I saw her. Her reaction was one of general indifference, however she did find it gross. She didn't have an opinion either way on whether her friend should be given a heads up or not.

As I said, I made that decision myself, purely based on HOW he spoke about her, NOT that he wanted to.

My cousin was visiting us for a little while a few years back, and he expressed interest in her as well. But he was a gentleman and didn't talk about "nailing her" or "getting in her pants".

FWIW, my wife's friend is VERY unfriendly towards men who speak like that, to the point that she will not allow her children (teenagers) to listen to music that are derogatory towards women (ie. use words like "b***h" and that sort of thing).

And trust me, she's no prude, either. She's an openly sexual feminist, not a femi-nazi.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EllisRedding said:


> OP - did you at least tell your BIL that you relayed his exact conversation to her? Shouldn't he at least know that so he isn't ambushed?


So that HE isn't ambushed? By her turning him down?

Quite the opposite, I told her so SHE wouldn't be ambushed. I told her so she would know going in that he seems to think this is somehow implied, like a double date or something.

I'm all for the "bro code", believe me, but there are definitely some times where it doesn't apply.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

alexm said:


> So that HE isn't ambushed? By her turning him down?
> 
> Quite the opposite, I told her so SHE wouldn't be ambushed. I told her so she would know going in that he seems to think this is somehow implied, like a double date or something.
> 
> I'm all for the "bro code", believe me, but there are definitely some times where it doesn't apply.


Really the point being I would think he spoke to you not with the understanding that you would share his conversation, who knows. Ambushed if she decides to start bringing up stuff he said, that he did not actually say to her


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> Bro code? Really? Talking like that about a woman, especially one who is so close that she's like family is just wrong.
> 
> 
> The problem I see with the BIL is that, from what alexm posted, the BIL actually believes what he's saying. It was a kindness to the friend to warn her so that she knows that the BIL's "friendship" is based on his wanting to "hit that". Now that she knows, if she's not interested it the BIL, she knows that he's a potential problem and she can make sure to keep him at a distance.
> ...


This ^

I didn't feel good about going behind his back, trust me. I love him, and I actually DO respect him (except when it comes to women).

But I love and respect her more.

That said, I spoke candidly to her afterwards, and acknowledged that I was speculating on her behalf, and I accepted that I was in the wrong for that. She's cool with it. Bottom line, and I told her this, is that I have NO idea if she has any interest in "nailing" him, or if she'd be receptive to his advances. It was difficult to articulate to her, but I wasn't trying to prevent this, just give her a heads up as to the way he put it to me. (ie. the language he used). She understood what I was saying.

Another reason that I spoke up was that I know my wife would not be comfortable with something like that. She thinks her brother's disgusting (but loves him anyway, of course) and literally feels sick whenever he's got a new girl around. We all know how that turns out. The thought of her best friend being another of his conquests is revolting to her. That said, she knows full well her friend is an adult and can handle herself and make her own decisions AND knows exactly what kind of a guy he is. If (and that's a big if) she got together with him, she'd know what she's in for, therefore my wife tends to keep stuff like that to herself.

Which is PROBABLY what I should have done, I agree, but I didn't, and I don't really feel that bad about it.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EllisRedding said:


> Really the point being I would think he spoke to you not with the understanding that you would share his conversation, who knows. Ambushed if she decides to start bringing up stuff he said, that he did not actually say to her


Fair enough.

And that's exactly why I wrestled with this, because I went behind his back when he was speaking to me in confidence. But it crossed a line (for me, apparently not for all), and thus I made my decision.

I felt torn, as if I didn't say anything to her, then I'd feel like I was behind HER back, know what I mean? It really is a tough one.

Reminds me of the post here a while back about telling somebody they hardly know that their spouse (whom they also hardly know) is having an affair. Not the same thing, obviously, but having knowledge about one person that another might/should know is a heavy weight.

Besides, she wouldn't do that. And if she did, I'd stand behind my actions 100% to him.

Like I said, if he was respectable about it, and her, I wouldn't have said jack squat. I still would have found it kind of gross, but I would have kept my mouth shut.

It was the words he chose to use that disturbed me, and knowing full well how much she despises men who speak like that, I felt little choice, bro code or not. I'm a grown-a** adult, not some 22 year old d-bag who says "bro's before ho's, duuuude!"

She's the closest thing I have to a sister, and he's the closest thing I have to a brother. Therefore: UGH.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Maybe you could have hinted at some of the stuff with her without going into details or exactly what terminology he used. Sounds like she already knew about some of his behaviou


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I have an IRL brother. I sometimes say things to him in a way that I would never say to any other person on the planet. Getting your brother to laugh his ass off at your neolithic behavior is one of the joys of having a brother.

I'd be right offended if he went blabbing to my wife with specifics. Those kinds of conversations are not ever meant to be taken literally or even seriously. It's sibling smack talk. It's not a representation of reality and it is definitely not for anyone else's ears.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If she is not interested in him, she now knows that she has to go out of her way to not be friendly with him... like not smile, not laugh at his jokes, etc. Some people are so immature that they misread things like when someone of the opposite sex smiles, laughs, etc.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

It will be so much fun if he does not do anything. The lady keeps waiting and waiting for him to do something and he treats her like an actual sister.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

You overstepped....Women LOVE bad boys...Now even if she wants to, she can't get NAILED....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

You did fine alexm. I probably would have kicked his ass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Definitely a man code violation....

Now had he acted like a jerk when he showed up you could easily steer the conversation etc. They are adults and being "like" family they are not "actual" family. 

I can understand the guy was being a turd but best way would be send a text telling him how you feel and not to be a pig when he shows up.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Personal said:


> Since your brother in law is an adult and your sisters friend is an adult and they aren't actually related, it's entirely their business alone (and not yours) whether they play together or not.
> 
> If they both happen to be interested one off or otherwise and have at it, I hope that they both lustfully enjoy themselves.
> 
> Just because you have your children call your friend an aunt, doesn't actually mean she is one.


You, and several others in this thread, are missing the point, unfortunately.

As I said originally, had he expressed interest in a gentlemanly way (whatever that is to you) I would have said nothing. I would have been surprised at his interest in her like that, but nothing more. No man code violation.

However, I stress that my wife truly views her as a sister, and the whole family knows that, including BIL.

She also does not need any sort of protecting. She is not shy to voice her opinions on men who act like pigs, presumably why BIL views this as a challenge.

From my POV, to use a friendly get-together - at our house - as an avenue to "nail" somebody who we all view as family, and to tell me about it, is even more against the man code.

However, the tipping point for me was the language and wording that he used. He was talking about somebody who is important to my wife, our kids, AND me, as though she were a conquest, a challenge, and a piece of meat.

She is not off limits to my BIL, obviously. They are adults. I wasn't trying to prevent anything from going on - that's none of my business. But he MADE it my business, didn't he?

I handled this the same way any of you other men out there would handle somebody talking about your own sister (or perhaps cousin) like that. In fact, I think I handled it much better than most of you men with sisters would have.

So for those of you who disagreed - I do see your point. Kind of. But the issue I take with the relatively small backlash at this is that it's not okay to talk about women (or men, for that matter) the way he did, family or not. You would not allow one of your buddies, or your own BIL, to talk about your sister, cousin, mother or aunt like that. But simply because somebody is not actual family doesn't make it okay.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

By the way, given the information that came to light, both wife and friend suggested we do something else, out of the house, in public, with our older kids, instead of the 4 of us cooped up inside the house, with no kids. We ended up doing something he had shown interest in doing several times over the years.

He declined to join and stayed home instead.

As I said in my original post, BIL tends to bail on family things (including xmas, thanksgiving, HIS OWN BIRTHDAY this year, etc.) My wife and I see him a handful of times per year at most.

When I suggested the 4 of us get together and hang out a couple of weeks ago, he was all over that. Then when he let me know what his intentions were, it made sense to me that he actually showed interest in hanging out with us for once.

Then when he declined to join us when the plans changed, it was made quite clear what his ONLY intentions were. He had no interest in actually spending any quality time with his sister, me, or his nephew. Just my wife's friend.

So all in all, I'm glad I passed on this information.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

alexm said:


> By the way, given the information that came to light, both wife and friend suggested we do something else, out of the house, in public, with our older kids, instead of the 4 of us cooped up inside the house, with no kids. We ended up doing something he had shown interest in doing several times over the years.
> 
> He declined to join and stayed home instead.
> 
> ...


I agree. With this new info, clearly you did the right thing.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

If you did not like the language used you tell it to the person using it.

Not snitch on him like a school kid.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Do any women who have read this thread think I did the wrong thing?

Just asking.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I honestly don't think you did the "wrong" thing, but I probably wouldn't have handled it the way that you did. Yes, I would likely have discussed this with my spouse, because I discuss everything with my spouse. However, I don't think I would have told the friend. Mostly because I think that's an ineffective way to handle the situation.

More effective, I think, would have been to address the issue at the time with your brother-in-law. In whatever terms seemed most appropriate to your relationship with him. My own brother would likely have phrased it as "Hey, dumbass, she's a close friend. Knock it off!" But whatever you felt comfortable saying would have been fine. The problem isn't that he's attracted to your wife's best friend, or even that you were afraid of her being victimized by him. The problem is that he's a sophomoric d0uchebag with major over-share issues and you don't like the way he was talking about a woman you regard as family.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Rowan said:


> I honestly don't think you did the "wrong" thing, but I probably wouldn't have handled it the way that you did. Yes, I would likely have discussed this with my spouse, because I discuss everything with my spouse. However, I don't think I would have told the friend. Mostly because I think that's an ineffective way to handle the situation.
> 
> More effective, I think, would have been to address the issue at the time with your brother-in-law. In whatever terms seemed most appropriate to your relationship with him. My own brother would likely have phrased it as "Hey, dumbass, she's a close friend. Knock it off!" But whatever you felt comfortable saying would have been fine. The problem isn't that he's attracted to your wife's best friend, or even that you were afraid of her being victimized by him. *The problem is that he's a sophomoric d0uchebag with major over-share issues and you don't like the way he was talking about a woman you regard as family*.


i love this. 
however, i feel like alexm tried to handle this while making minimal family drama. This is not normal hooking up. this is intra-family hooking up. he's going to have to see both of these people all the time after this. to expect the d0uche canoe BIL to take being told to back off with grace and aplomb seems shortsighted.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> i love this.
> however, i feel like alexm tried to handle this while making minimal family drama. This is not normal hooking up. this is intra-family hooking up. he's going to have to see both of these people all the time after this. to expect the d0uche canoe BIL to take being told to back off with grace and aplomb seems shortsighted.


See, but I think the way Alex handled it could have led to more family drama. The friend goes off on the BIL if they had all gotten together (using direct quotes from the conversation BIL had with Alex), the BIL then realized that Alex went behind his back (a BIL who as mentioned is not around that much, this could only alienate him even more). I agree with Rowan, if Alex has an issue at the time the best bet would have been to take it up with the BIL, not smile all the while and run to the friend.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> See, but I think the way Alex handled it could have led to more family drama. The friend goes off on the BIL if they had all gotten together (using direct quotes from the conversation BIL had with Alex), the BIL then realized that Alex went behind his back (a BIL who as mentioned is not around that much, this could only alienate him even more). I agree with Rowan, if Alex has an issue at the time the best bet would have been to take it up with the BIL, not smile all the while and run to the friend.


As a woman, it just doesn't sit well with me. if i knew someone was talking about me like that, and no one was telling me about it? I'd be pissed. If i'd actually hooked up with that person, and then found out. more pissed. someone who considers me a sister didn't tell me? holy f**king mother.

so some of you guys are all pro bro code, and no c0ckblocking. and i hear that. but that crap is for guys you feel some kind of loyalty to. Clearly the loyalty isn't running deep between alexm and BIL. The bro code isn't, say anything to any guy anywhere and they'll keep it a secret for you. if my sister in law told me she was going to nail my best guy friend, you can be sure i'd warn him and he'd thank me for it. my sil is a crazy b****. best friends > in laws

In my head, the BIL should have known that what he was saying wouldn't fall under any perceived bro code confidentiality agreement. It should be common sense that you don't walk up to a girl's friend and talk about nailing her. And then to expect that friend to keep it quiet while you make your move, simply because you share the same gender, is beyond my comprehension.

i think we may have to agree to disagree Mr. Redding. Impasse?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

She has been around this guy for 2 decades I am sure she knows his character. Why would after OP described his BIL would anyone not think garbage doesnt flow from his mouth? 
So switch genders if one of your SIL tells you that your best guy friend has a really small penis you run to tell him?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I would tell him *dude I told her what you said* and then it's not a big deal. He might ask why and I would say she's like family so I wanted to give her a fighting chance. Kind of a back handed compliment while at the same time letting him know not to say that stuff about her to you.

I don't think you crossed a line but he shouldn't be blind sided either. There's just as much chance that you've helped them hook up rather than made her angry. You never know who's into that kind of cat/mouse game.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> As a woman, it just doesn't sit well with me. if i knew someone was talking about me like that, and no one was telling me about it? I'd be pissed. If i'd actually hooked up with that person, and then found out. more pissed. someone who considers me a sister didn't tell me? holy f**king mother.
> 
> so some of you guys are all pro bro code, and no c0ckblocking. and i hear that. but that crap is for guys you feel some kind of loyalty to. Clearly the loyalty isn't running deep between alexm and BIL. The bro code isn't, say anything to any guy anywhere and they'll keep it a secret for you. if my sister in law told me she was going to nail my best guy friend, you can be sure i'd warn him and he'd thank me for it. my sil is a crazy b****. best friends > in laws
> 
> ...


I am not talking about bro code or ****blocking. I am talking about a family member (BIL) telling something in confidence, and then OP running along telling someone else (I can understand the wife per se, but why not just record the conversation with the BIL so you can play back in entirety for this female so you don't miss any details...) . This is not just some random guy who came up to OP. If roles were reversed I would still feel the same way, this is not a "bro" thing. Heck, you could have mixed genders and it would still be the same.

I am always cool to agree to disagree, we are just sharing opinions (mine being the right one of course, you don't walk around looking as good as I do in my avatar without always being right :grin2


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> I am not talking about bro code or ****blocking. I am talking about a family member (BIL) telling something in confidence, and then OP running along telling someone else (I can understand the wife per se, but why not just record the conversation with the BIL so you can play back in entirety for this female so you don't miss any details...) . This is not just some random guy who came up to OP. If roles were reversed I would still feel the same way, this is not a "bro" thing. Heck, you could have mixed genders and it would still be the same.
> 
> I am always cool to agree to disagree, we are just sharing opinions (mine being the right one of course, you don't walk around looking as good as I do in my avatar without always being right :grin2


that's hilarious. if i'd have _known_ you were Fabio, i may have agreed with you up front. Fake tans and long flowing blond hair is so hot....

wait, so you would have been ok with him recording the BIL, and playing it back for the friend, but telling her was a no no? was that sarcasm? i'm lost on that one buddy. either you were joking, or ....that's a really strange thing to be ok with.

The BIL kind of is some random guy. alexm sees him 5 times a year, married to his sister. and the BIL is a d0uchebag.
they are not besties.



richie33 said:


> So switch genders if one of your SIL tells you that your best guy friend has a really small penis you run to tell him?


yes! my sil and i aren't besties. why would i be more loyal to her because i married her brother? my whole premise exactly!!


sixty-eight said:


> my sil is a crazy b****. best friends > in laws


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> that's hilarious. if i'd have _known_ you were Fabio, i may have agreed with you up front. Fake tans and long flowing blond hair is so hot....
> 
> wait, so you would have been ok with him recording the BIL, and playing it back for the friend, but telling her was a no no? was that sarcasm? i'm lost on that one buddy. either you were joking, or ....that's a really strange thing to be ok with.
> 
> ...


Lol, obviously complete sacrasm. If you are going to give her all the details might as well just record the conversation so you don't miss anything  The BIL is his OP's wife's brother, family .... not some random guy. Yes, a db (no argument from me on that one), but still family


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

Skipping all the rationalization... you meddled where you shouldn't have by sharing a private conversation. "Auntie" or not, your wife's friend is an adult and can make up her own mind about the overtures she receives. If BIL's language disgusted or alarmed you, you should've told him off directly instead of trying to sabotage his "game" by telling tales behind his back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> Lol, obviously complete sacrasm. If you are going to give her all the details might as well just record the conversation so you don't miss anything  The BIL is his OP's wife's brother, family .... not some random guy. Yes, a db (no argument from me on that one), but still family


We're on the internet! i can't see your face! you have to do a winky smile. something. 

one of my BIL, i invited over for dinner once. he brought his son. i thought it went ok, though he was a little weird. he called constantly and relentlessly afterward, wanting to hang out. Lucky his license was revoked, or he would have just come over. Mr.68 said, never do that again. X is like a stray dog you feed. we will never get rid of him. X also has a felony record for fraud, so you have to lock up anything shiny when he comes over.

one of my own brothers is an alcoholic kleptomanic with a compulsive lying problem. The other is an alcoholic with a substance abuse problem and a compulsion to drive that way. They like to get plastered and then get in fist fights with each other.

see where i'm going with this? I'm not looking for sympathy. we do just fine without them. But Mr.68 and i are supposed to give preference to these F**k ups over our tried and true friends, simply because we married their siblings? just no. 
you say brother's in law are family. i guess with me, family just doesn't always have seniority. I know i can't be the only one related to morons that can't be trusted, by blood and/or marriage.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

Actually there is a deeper issue imho.

Even if its a stranger who talks trash about someone. I would rather deal with it directly with the stranger first than carry tales to the other person.

I find it wrong that one gives a long rope to someone hang themselves with and then use what was said in confidence to the other person.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EllisRedding said:


> The friend goes off on the BIL if they had all gotten together (using direct quotes from the conversation BIL had with Alex)


Point taken, absolutely. But I do know her quite well, and she wouldn't have called him out on this. Trust me, I considered this angle, too.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

im_tam said:


> Actually there is a deeper issue imho.
> 
> Even if its a stranger who talks trash about someone. I would rather deal with it directly with the stranger first than carry tales to the other person.
> 
> I find it wrong that one gives a long rope to someone hang themselves with and then use what was said in confidence to the other person.


I thought I made it quite clear to him what I thought of his telling me what he told me. "Dude, she's family" "She's like a sister" "She's your sister's best friend" etc.

But he kept going, and the finale was his comment "yeah, a sister I can nail!"

It was he who put that rope out there. If he shut up after my first remark, I would have let it be.

Frankly, I think he was looking for a high 5 from me or something. Hell, I'm married to his sister. I'd hope he'd think I have more class than that, no?

As an aside (and I'm ripping the guy apart here, I know) but he dragged us all to a nudie bar for my bachelor party. Maybe "dragged" isn't the best word, we went wilingly, but it was not in the plans. While there, he made sure to tell me several times that this was "the last night of my life" and that I better make it count. No more sex with other women, and all that. Blindsided me with lap dances and a visit to the VIP room, with a wink.

I was marrying his sister, for f***'s sake.

So yeah - maybe I broke the bro code, maybe I should hand in my man card, but honestly - eff him (when it comes to women, anyway).


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Phil Anders said:


> Skipping all the rationalization... you meddled where you shouldn't have by sharing a private conversation. "Auntie" or not, your wife's friend is an adult and can make up her own mind about the overtures she receives. If BIL's language disgusted or alarmed you, you should've told him off directly instead of trying to sabotage his "game" by telling tales behind his back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I disagree.

If his "game" was to act like a man, and not a teenage boy, then I wouldn't have said jack ___. I already said that.

I didn't sabotage anything. I merely told a person who is important to my family exactly what he thinks of her as, and what he's planning (not hoping - planning) to do with her.

My own cousin expressed interest in her a few years back, and I didn't intervene. But he was also a man about it, not a horndog adolescent with a misogynistic streak who declared he wanted to "nail" her, and that "it's going to happen".

And you know what? My cousin probably felt the exact same lust towards her as BIL does. I have no idea if he wanted a relationship with her, or just something casual. But it's how the two of them spoke about her that is the difference.

Ugh.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thundarr said:


> There's just as much chance that you've helped them hook up rather than made her angry. You never know who's into that kind of cat/mouse game.


And that's fine.

I reiterate: I wasn't trying to keep them apart or prevent anything from happening. Not my business.

What IS my business is how people talk about my friends and family members.

My wife and her friend have each other's backs. They've known each other long enough and are close enough that they speak freely about one another's relationships (past and present).

If I had said nothing, and BIL came over to hang out with the three of us and attempted to go along with his little plan, my wife would have tossed him out of the house on his ear. My wife would also, I now know, have given a heads up to BFF prior to that night.

And for that matter, *I* probably would have been in a little bit of trouble from the wife had she ever found out I knew what her brother's plan was - which would have been a distinct possibility as BIL probably would have told his sister/my wife that "Mike knew and he didn't say anything so I thought it was cool!" or something. 

He's like that.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I re-read your opening comment because something isn't right about this situation. I'm a fan of protecting people we care about if they need it but she didn't need your help. She's going on a date with a guy who she's known for 20 years and likes. You said she knows full well how he is in regards to women and they've had discussions about it. Yet she's still going out with him. You told your wife and she didn't think anything needed to be said to her friend. You know girl friends talk to each other so maybe your wife knows that her friend is an adult who's doing what she wants to do.

Forget the BRO code. From the outside looking in, it seems like you don't want her to have sex with BIL so you're trying to sabotage it. That's what it's going to look like to your wife, BIL, and friend as well IMO.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Personal said:


> Absent the bold bit, my two brothers are like that, so ever since they felt compelled to have a fight with each other, at one of their child's first birthday party. We no longer see/visit either of them at all.


my sympathies : / 
i also like to avoid the drama, if at all possible. some people were born with hell in their veins and should come with a warning label.



Thundarr said:


> she didn't need your help. She's going on a date with a guy who she's known for 20 years and likes. From the outside looking in, it seems like you don't want her to have sex with BIL so you're trying to sabotage it.


whoa, whoa. who said she liked the BIL? i thought general consensus was that he's a manwh0re and although loved by the family, not well liked.
and when did the date happen?
i don't remember that he ever asked her out. alexm said he would have been ok with it if that was the case. a cousin was talking about asking her out and that was fine.
he was saying he didn't like that he wouldn't stop talking about nailing her, and that's why he warned her in private. so she could make her own decision. either i missed a whole chunk of this story, or you may have.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

sixty-eight said:


> whoa, whoa. who said she liked the BIL? i thought general consensus was that he's a manwh0re and although loved by the family, not well liked.
> 
> 
> alexm said:
> ...


Hi sixty. Good catch. It could be that BIL is delusional. But Alexm's wife seems to think her friend is safe.





sixty-eight said:


> and when did the date happen?
> i don't remember that he ever asked her out. alexm said he would have been ok with it if that was the case. a cousin was talking about asking her out and that was fine.
> he was saying he didn't like that he wouldn't stop talking about nailing her, and that's why he warned her in private. so she could make her own decision. either i missed a whole chunk of this story, or you may have.
> 
> ...


Discussing whether it's an official date or not is pointless because it's easy enough to see BIL and friend will be there as the only two after Alexm and his wife. The thing is, this is a grown woman who's known the guy for two decades and knows how he is. She DOESN'T need protector Alexm to save the day for her. He told his wife and if she thought her life time friend needed to know then she could have told her. Alexm isn't protecting some unsuspecting innocent 18 year old girl from this unknown predator. They know each other already and apparently she thinks she can take care of her self.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

hi thundarr 
i think you may have missed some more stuff.



Thundarr said:


> Hi sixty. Good catch. It could be that BIL is delusional. But Alexm's wife seems to think her friend is safe.


hold it right there my friend. Alexm's wife *originally* seems to think her friend is safe, but is uncomfortable. however, alexm's wife clearly does not want slvtty BIL to nail friend.


alexm said:


> my wife would not be comfortable with something like that. She thinks her brother's disgusting (but loves him anyway, of course) and literally feels sick whenever he's got a new girl around. We all know how that turns out. The thought of her best friend being another of his conquests is revolting to her.





Thundarr said:


> Discussing whether it's an official date or not is pointless because it's easy enough to see BIL and friend will be there as the only two after Alexm and his wife. The thing is, this is a grown woman who's known the guy for two decades and knows how he is. She DOESN'T need protector Alexm to save the day for her. He told his wife and if she thought her life time friend needed to know then she could have told her. Alexm isn't protecting some unsuspecting innocent 18 year old girl from this unknown predator. They know each other already and apparently she thinks she can take care of her self.


Discussing whether it's an official date or not is pointless because: The date never happened. flaky BIL bailed on it.

it's not like alexm jumped in between them flirting with each other with a room divider. he simply warned the friend that BIL might be only looking for a hookup. 

and he wouldn't have done so, if BIL hadn't persisted in being an a$$ and kept his mouth shut. This is common sense stuff, BIL should have confessed this thought to someone more sympathetic to his cause than the best friend of the chick he was trying to bang. And he probably shouldn't be scamming for hookups at the family bbq.



alexm said:


> From my POV, to use a friendly get-together - at our house - as an avenue to "nail" somebody who we all view as family, and to tell me about it, is even more against the man code.
> 
> However, the tipping point for me was the language and wording that he used. He was talking about somebody who is important to my wife, our kids, AND me, as though she were a conquest, a challenge, and a piece of meat


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thundarr said:


> I re-read your opening comment because something isn't right about this situation. I'm a fan of protecting people we care about if they need it but she didn't need your help. She's going on a date with a guy who she's known for 20 years and likes. You said she knows full well how he is in regards to women and they've had discussions about it. Yet she's still going out with him. You told your wife and she didn't think anything needed to be said to her friend. You know girl friends talk to each other so maybe your wife knows that her friend is an adult who's doing what she wants to do.
> 
> Forget the BRO code. From the outside looking in, it seems like you don't want her to have sex with BIL so you're trying to sabotage it. That's what it's going to look like to your wife, BIL, and friend as well IMO.



Maybe I didn't word it properly, but it's not a date.

That said, if you (and a couple of others) are viewing it as such, and clearly BIL did, too, then I get what you're saying.

But believe you me, this was not a date, a set-up, or anything like that.

I DO see how people outside of our circle would view it as such (2 men, 2 women), however I can't emphasize enough the fact that BIL is the type of guy to see every possible thing as an avenue to sex. With somebody, or anybody.

Therefore, ironically enough, I feel even better about giving her a heads up that BIL thought this was a set-up, a date, a hook-up possibility, whatever. But ONLY because of the language he used. 

Again, if he wasn't a pig about it, I would have laughed at him and said "good luck!" I effectively told my cousin the same thing a few years back. Basically: "Dude, she has high standards (she does) and an extremely low tolerance for ********* behaviour. Mind your P's and Q's, don't tarnish the family name and good luck!"

(He got a little tipsy one night and screwed it up epically, by the way...)


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

sixty-eight said:


> it's not like alexm jumped in between them flirting with each other with a room divider. he simply warned the friend that BIL might be only looking for a hookup.


This x 1000. I would never have done something like that. She doesn't need rescuing (unless she does, which has happened, and she's given me the "help me" look).

I "warned" her (strong word) that BIL was likely only angling this evening into a hookup for himself. My heads up to her caused both her and my wife to change plans so that the 4 of us can still hang out, but not alone in our house. Both wife and friend realized after I told both of them what he said that our planned evening DID in fact look like a date of sorts - even though neither woman expected THAT (and that's not them being naive, rather it's the long-standing thought that all of us are family.)

BIL bailed, essentially proving to the three of us that he was only after one thing. And he bailed with no explanation, either. Just a quick "No thanks, but have fun" via FB messenger to my wife.



sixty-eight said:


> and he wouldn't have done so, if BIL hadn't persisted in being an a$$ and kept his mouth shut. This is common sense stuff, *BIL should have confessed this thought to someone more sympathetic to his cause than the best friend of the chick he was trying to bang.* + *And he probably shouldn't be scamming for hookups at the family bbq.*


This and this.

What was supposed to be a fun evening in to hang out with friends/family turned into something that none of us would have expected, no matter how *********gy BIL is.

I think some of you are missing the point(s), still.

If we went ahead with our planned evening, and BIL had not announced to me that he wanted to "nail" my wife's best friend, and generally be a 17 year old boy going to his first frat party, then if something happened between the two of them - so be it. Wouldn't have bothered me. My wife might not have been pleased with her brother, and may have said to her friend the next day "Really? My disgusting brother?", but that's about it.

This is not at all about preventing two single adults from having sex with one another, no matter how I or my wife feel about who's involved. This was entirely about how BIL will take any and all situations and make them somehow sexual and.. gross. And he does. Wife's friend deserved, IMO, a heads up that BIL was excited at the prospects (read: challenge) of "nailing" her, NOT at hanging out with all of us.

More than that, wife and I are not pleased that our Saturday evening plans - at our house - were clearly viewed solely as an avenue for BIL to scratch off one of the unicorns on his list. (And he has a list. We hear about it each time he scratches another one off, despite our protests. Note that I said "we". Yes, he feels it's okay to tell his sister about his conquests. This list of his (which he probably DOES actually have written down) includes all races, several different countries of origin, threesomes, foursomes, married women, tall women, short women, a midget (his words) a lesbian, and anything else you can think of that fits the bill. He's claimed to have knocked off most of them. I guess "wife's hot best friend" is still there, though.

There's something wrong with him.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you knew him, you'd have done the same thing and warned whoever it was he was talking about, if you cared about them.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Alex, you informed your wife of her brother's intentions. If she was worried about her friend, it was her place to talk to her friend. I know, I know, 'but, she's family'. You have enough family to worry about. Put away your cape until your wife needs it.


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## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

OP,
Don't sweat it . I would have done the same thing. When its someone you know you give them a heads up when guys act like that. Women should be treated with respect. He sounds like he treats them like toilet paper.....


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

2ndchanceGuy said:


> OP,
> Don't sweat it . I would have done the same thing. When its someone you know you give them a heads up when guys act like that. Women should be treated with respect. He sounds like he treats them like toilet paper.....


Bingo. Didnt read the other 4 pages besides the first in the thread but this sums it up for me.

Your BiL is a [email protected] douche. Almost guaranteed you wouldnt be friends with him or associate with him were he not family. Sounds like your wife and rest of her family put up with it and ignore it because he is family.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Quietly tell him.

"You nail her. Im gonna nail you. Look into the Roman interpretation of nailing someone."
Then smile evilly.


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