# A Sincere Thank You



## Lots to Learn

Hello Tam,

Clearly this is my first post, and in all honesty I have no idea what the result of the post will be with the exception of a sincere thank you to all of you folks who take the time out of your lives to address the heartfelt concerns of newcomers.

I am not sure if I am ready to tell my story at this point, although Im sure some of it will be detailed in general terms below. While I am fairly social and well adjusted, I guess I am a private person with respect to "family issues".

Other than my sincere thanks which I have felt compelled to say this week surely there is some therapy in writing these words.

Us:

BS (Me) 42
WW or maybe WAW (44)
DS 11
DD 14
Married 13 years together for 15 years.

We met when we were about 27 and in my mind experienced enough, we had both had time to play the field etc. She had me at hello, and I her. What followed was of course bliss. The typical euphoria of falling in love etc.

Anyways we ave had issues over time like any couple I suppose. Nothing over the top or so I assumed. There was a particular issue which I will address 
later. 

So in the spring which followed a very tough winter work wise for both of us. We both have demanding careers, in addition to the brutal winters we have here North of 49. We were just finishing a major renovation of our home which of course was addition stress. The point being I began to notice a change in my wife. Working more at night (at home in her office), more distant, cell phone locked, etc, etc. I could sense the change but with both of us wrapped up in our work **** I didn't really pay any attention to it. As time went on though I could sense something was wrong, wrong enough to compel me to start reading, which thankfully brought me here. I read and I read. 

I can say that I would come to the infidelity forum and read the accounts of people and the responses of the regulars, the end outcome and I empathized. After you so many of them you see the script, the denials of the BS, the realization of the BS, so,so heartbreaking. I had to stop reading as I would often find myself in tears for these strangers. It was just so heartbreaking to see. There was always the "not my spouse" , but it always was. 

Imagine my horror when I started to take some of this advice with respect to cell phone bills, credit cards, etc. To see that my very own marriage was running on the exact script was devastating beyond words. On more than one occasion I approached my wife with questions about the texting, the charges etc, and of course I got gas lighted in the extreme. As you all know when you are in it you want to believe this but it is so contrary to what your gut and logic are telling you. I can say I thought I was going crazy. I lost 30 lbs, sleeping 3 hours a night, etc. A very painful realization after the fact is to know that your spouse can see you disintegrating before your eyes but continues to deny. This is one aspect I will never be able to reconcile in my mind. To be clear I had approached her numerous times during this period in a calm and rational way to say...if you are unhappy, and are having a affair lets talk about it. I pleaded with her to talk about it, and not drag me any further into this. Denials at every turn, gas-lighting all the way. 

I recognize this post will be disjointed, like I said I am not sure I can do all the details yet. The affair started in April, my real suspicion started in July and was confirmed in the most exquisitely painful way August 14th. I will get to all that perhaps later.

I have learned so much here, not just about affairs, but about people, how one creates a marriage situation where this 
may seem like a option for a spouse tec. I have truly ve at come full circle with it all, with having no one to talk to. This in thanks to you all.

To give some perspective of what I own. That is, my responsibility in creating emotional detachment over the years from the women who I adored. I am extremely successful in my career. I manage large projects, which entails, people, schedules, and of course capital. People would tell you that I am a problem solver at a high level. I am a people person. The corporation considers me the relationship builder. Not only clients and partners, but the young people we are charged to mentor and foster. The irony here is this same patience, understanding, I was never able able to translate to our children. From their young age I was none of these things. I was quite detached. No abuse or anything, I love my kids. But I was detached in way. 

This went on for years and of course this was very painful for my wife, who approached me on several occasions over the years to tell me how much this hurt her. It hurt not only her but of course how over time she intimated how I would struggle with the kids. Here is the thing, I was not ignorant to it. Indeed, I was painfully aware of it, would acknowledge it, set my mind to do better, but never could. I was never able to reconcile how I could be so good with people and relationships away from home, but not able to apply this where it matter the most, which was the kids. To be clear, I never had this issue with my wife, she would tell you that I treated her like a queen. But like all mothers, watching this interaction with the kids had its toll.

As time went on with my acknowledgment of the issue and seeing in my kids, and certainly the displeasure from my wife I began to withdrawal from family activities. My rationale being if I did not participate there would be no disputes, and as a resut everyone would be happier. So, so wrong. O course this just amplified my wife's detachment, I see all this know thanks to all you folks.

For the record, I did go to IC in the spring to mange my issue. The good news is in about 3 sessions she was le to see what the issue was and things have been complete 180 with the kids. They would tell you that, and its been great. My wife would tell you the same thing,unfortunately too late, and damage done as far as detachment from wife.

Anyways, I realize that is disjointed, and not the full story, but like I said, my goal for the first post was just to thank you all for being here. Its been the most painful last 2 months of my life. You all have been beyond helpful in getting me to where I am now. Do I still hurt? You bet, its very painful, but I understand so much more thanks to all of you.


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## Bibi1031

So what's happening between you and your wife?

Are you still together?


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## EleGirl

Well I have to say that I'm sorry you are here... because it means you are going through a lot of painful things as you describe.

I agree with Bibi, it's not clear if you are still with your wife and if she is still in an affair. Could you please clarify that?


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## Dude007

Yeah try and use your logic before your emotions. Bs can usually get a much better divorce settlement if they play their cards right and want to walk away.


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## Lots to Learn

EleGirl said:


> Well I have to say that I'm sorry you are here... because it means you are going through a lot of painful things as you describe.
> 
> I agree with Bibi, it's not clear if you are still with your wife and if she is still in an affair. Could you please clarify that?





EleGirl said:


> Well I have to say that I'm sorry you are here... because it means you are going through a lot of painful things as you describe.
> 
> I agree with Bibi, it's not clear if you are still with your wife and if she is still in an affair. Could you please clarify that?


Like I said I recognize the post is incomplete, and disjointed, god knows I have read enough of them.  Perhaps I need the prompting.

Well DD for me was discovering them in our own home, in our bed on our first day of MC. Like I said, so exquisitely painful. There are no words. Like many its not really the ac as much as the lies, and the deceptions that lead o it all. As you know it puts so many things into question at a fundamental level. It really is life changing. If you were to of asked me at anytime in my life what I would have done in such a circumstance I would have been firm in that this is a deal breaker. Funny thing that when you are standing there, well for me any ways, black/white blue/green there is no more, and I found that in the end you are left with only thing. How do I feel? Of course I could fill this page with the emotions since that day, but in the end I love this women. This comes of course with the understanding of the **** I own as defined above.

To give more perspective, on DD night after the blow out that ensued, we sat all night talking. She was devastated, as was I. Her main theme was that I didn't deserve that. Who does? Indeed the next day we had planned to be at our camper and boat for the weekend without the kids. We went anyways. It was a tough weekend as you can imagine. That was over a month ago. Since that weekend there have been so many discussions, buckets full of tears. We have both been vacillating as what to do. Our issue is we both love each other, dearly. I often think I wish we didnt as it would be so much easier. But we do. In the last month I have arrived at a point where I believe it wont work and suggested we get a separation. In each case she agrees in person only to later indicate her desire to try and work on it. Which I believe in my heart that there is a part of her that does. However, these are words and her actions do not match these words.


Let me qualify the statement above. A month and a half ago we rented a condo to give each other some space to breathe. So I have been here and we are still totally amicable. But I have come to realize in this month that we haven't been able to, or there is a unwillingness to build anything despite the words. Like I said on 3 occasions I have recognized this and challenged her on it. In the end she concedes and we start again.

The last time (last week) I came to the end of my rope. Recognizing for both our sake that LIMBO was killing our souls. I effectively told her, that if she wants to be on her own, or another man, or whatever, then that is truly ok. But lets stop the limbo, its soul crushing, and frankly if that is to be our outcome I need to take measures. Get a house, start a new life with the kids, etc. So thats where we are today.

Again I have been able to get her with some sanity with the help of TAM. While my story is not one just of an affair (as painful and ****ty as that is) I recognize my part in getting the marriage to a point where that would be considered. I recognize the choice was hers. I get it, and it stings.

I guess where my struggle is now is a relationship going fwd. Clearly we will always be connected as we have 2 small children.And of course I fully understand the 180 should I choose that. I am having a hard time reconciling a relationship going fwd even though if we were to stay together I was willing to work on it. Does that make sense? I guess what I am saying is if we are getting separated I think I have to pull away and heal. I have a lot of things I need to work on /through.Its going to take time. I have no interest in others or another relationship, even though the opportunity is and always has been there. I have good boundaries and understand especially in my role how those are easily knocked down. Some irony here, is my wife has always been insecure with me in this respect. For me it was never even considered, I just don't let myself go there. Anyways the struggle now is I am realizing that after we go through the mechanics of separation, and it will be amicable, we will both be comfortable, we dont envision any dispute, that I may have to check out. That is discussion about the kids, but that's it. I think I need to go there, but I am struggling with it as she has been and I to her my best friend for 15 years. Whats your experience with this?

Like I said in my first post we are somewhat private. We dont air our laundry. Through this entire ordeal our friends, and family and family are only aware that we have issues. They certainly dont know the story (I haven't even told it all here yet). Ill also add that I personally haven't really talked to anybody about it except for her, and her to me. All that to say if we separate there will be request from family and friends to "talk about it". Do you talk about the affair? Is there any value to anyone or anything at this point to have that come out? How about the kids? Is there value in their knowledge? As stated our mess is more than the affair, its the affair and the issues in our marriage. That said, there is a part of me that thinks I will likely come to a point where I will need to tell people why I have been such a mess the last 2 months and likely going fwd for a bit. It is so out of character for me to be that way.


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## Marc878

You will go back and forth between reconciliation/divorce. What you have to ask yourself is could you live with this long term??? It'll be worse for you as she's betrayed you in your own home/bed and you discovered it. That image will stay with you always. No one deserves that for any reason.
No matter what the circumstances surrounding your marriage that's a huge lack of respect.

Reconciliation could take years if both of you worked together on it and there are no guarantees. If one or the other doesn't put forth maximum effort it would be hopeless anyway and just a waste your time/life. 

As for exposure it will come out eventually I suspect. Close family and friends should know in my opinion. As for the details no. You are going to need someone to lean on. Parents, siblings, close friends. I would say nothing to the children at this time. For your peace of mind I would inform the other mans wife if he's married. You shouldn't carry this burden solely on your shoulders while he walks away free. If not you will probably regret it later. Don't make that mistake. 

I wish you the best this is going to be a nightmare.


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## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> You will go back and forth between reconciliation/divorce. What you have to ask yourself is could you live with this long term??? It'll be worse for you as she's betrayed you in your own home/bed and you discovered it. That image will stay with you always. No one deserves that for any reason.
> No matter what the circumstances surrounding your marriage that's a huge lack of respect.
> 
> Reconciliation could take years if both of you worked together on it and there are no guarantees. If one or the other doesn't put forth maximum effort it would be hopeless anyway and just a waste your time/life.
> 
> As for exposure it will come out eventually I suspect. Close family and friends should know in my opinion. As for the details no. For your peace of mind I would inform the other mans wife if he's married. You shouldn't carry this burden solely on your shoulders while he walks away free. If not you will probably regret it later. Don't make that mistake.
> 
> I wish you the best this is going to be a nightmare.


Thank you for taking the time to respond. To be clear I am no longer vacillating between R and D. We are on the road to D. The OM's wife is aware I spoke to her. It was beyond unpleasant.

My struggle now is letting go of any friendship. I think I was ok before, or was willing to try, but now that we are on the D path I think I need to 180 for my own heart. The other struggle was exposure at this point, and what if any benefit there may be.


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## alte Dame

So you walked in on your WW and her OM? If I understood that correctly, that is brutal. I am so, so sorry.

Is the A still going on? You are vacillating, of course, in your shock and distress, but if you feel there is any real desire to reconcile, you need to kill the A.


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## Lots to Learn

alte Dame said:


> So you walked in on your WW and her OM? If I understood that correctly, that is brutal. I am so, so sorry.
> 
> Is the A still going on? You are vacillating, of course, in your shock and distress, but if you feel there is any real desire to reconcile, you need to kill the A.


Brutal indeed. No not considering R anymore although I think I was there before. Just looking for feedback on the 2 questions going fwd.

-Value of exposure now.

- The struggle of 180 which entails any friendship /relationship other than kids going fwd.


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## Marc878

If it's divorce you will still have to coparent your children and it's important to be civil to their mother. No matter what your feelings are. Limit contact for discussion about the children only.

The less contact you have with your STBX the better. It will be extremely hard but the 180 is designed to help you get detached from her so you can move on.

As for exposure you will need your immediate family, CLOSE friends etc for support. if you trust them to honor your privacy. If this interferes with your work you should think about letting your superior know so theres an understanding if you have to take time off, etc.

It may be wise to guard your finances as you never know how this may play out. You will not be able to trust her to be fair at this time. Protect your assets and definitely lawyer up. Depending on where you live infidelity can negate alimony.


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## Marc878

Be prepared. 

If the OM drops your STBX she will probably try and reconnect. Especially if she sees she may have a limited future.


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## ThePheonix

Lots to Learn said:


> she has been and I to her my best friend for 15 years. Whats your experience with this?


You need to get this shyt out of your head about being each others best friend. She far from your best friend Dawg. Or perhaps you need to start hanging out with a better class of back stabbers.


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## Bibi1031

Oh wow! 

You rock if you can talk amicably with your wife! You are a much better man than I. I would have killed my X if I caught him in the act. I know cuz I beat the sh!t out of him when the anger stage of grief hit me (about 3 weeks after DD). He took it and didn't even defend himself. I was very ashamed of myself because that was so out of character for me. I have never told a soul IRL, that's how sh!tty I feel for losing control to that point.

Before something like this happened to me, I always said I would leave his cheating ass and never look back...I was full of myself because that was a mother load of Krap.

Please remember that her cheating is not a reflection of YOU, it's her that messed up. You don't fix a marriage by bringing in a third party into the mix. You royaly fock it up more. 

You say you have fault because you messed up in the marriage and didn't fulfill some needs of hers. Don't feed yourself that load of you know what man! 

Nothing justifies adultery. You end one relationship before starting anothe plain and simple. Please keep that in mind before you start accepting blame on something you don't own.

If you can't decide what to do then do nothing. Fence sitting on such occasions is normal. 

Keep posting. Find neutral ground such as counciling to decide which side of the fence is best for YOU...reconciliation or amicable divorce/separation.

((((Hugs))))) cuz you need them

Bibi


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## Lots to Learn

Bibi1031 said:


> Oh wow!
> 
> You rock if you can talk amicably with your wife! You are a much better man than I. I would have killed my X if I caught him in the act. I know cuz I beat the sh!t out of him when the anger stage of grief hit me (about 3 weeks after DD). He took it and didn't even defend himself. I was very ashamed of myself because that was so out of character for me. I have never told a soul IRL, that's how sh!tty I feel for losing control to that point.
> 
> Before something like this happened to me, I always said I would leave his cheating ass and never look back...I was full of myself because that was a mother load of Krap.
> 
> Please remember that her cheating is not a reflection of YOU, it's her that messed up. You don't fix a marriage by bringing in a third party into the mix. You royaly fock it up more.
> 
> You say you have fault because you messed up in the marriage and didn't fulfill some needs of hers. Don't feed yourself that load of you know what man!
> 
> Nothing justifies adultery. You end one relationship before starting anothe plain and simple. Please keep that in mind before you start accepting blame on something you don't own.
> 
> If you can't decide what to do then do nothing. Fence sitting on such occasions is normal.
> 
> Keep posting. Find neutral ground such as counciling to decide which side of the fence is best for YOU...reconciliation or amicable divorce/separation.
> 
> ((((Hugs))))) cuz you need them
> 
> Bibi


Thank you, I need some feedback. To reiterate, I have arrived at a place where there is no R only D. Its taken 2 brutally emotional, and exhausting months to get there, but I am there with all your help. Although I have not been sharing I have been reading everything here that I can.

What of exposure at this point? Any value? I dont see it at this point but maybe I am blowing smoke..


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## The Middleman

Lots to Learn said:


> What of exposure at this point? Any value? I dont see it at this point but maybe I am blowing smoke..


I think that the important people in your lives, at the very least, should know the whole story, including how you found out. They need to understand the person she is.

As far as the kids go, if they are old enough, they should know. My childhood and adolescence was ruined by infidelity and I grew up admiring the wrong person. It was only after both my parents were gone that I understood that the father I admired so much was a pig. I'm not saying that this is the case with you, but they need the facts, pure, simple and not sugar coated. Don't allow them to grow up with misconceptions.

Also, keep in mind that as you go down the path of divorce, your "friendly" relationship with your WW will be tested. Don't get into a false sense of security.


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## Marc878

You've exposed OM.

Since you are divorcing it may make it harder to negotiate with STBX if you expose further. The only reason would be to get it off your chest. I believe in sharing the pain.

If you live in a no fault state and you would happen to cause STBX to lose her job it could mean higher alimony. 

Who else would you expose to and for what purpose? 

Remember you will have some sort of contact due to the children for many years.


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## Roselyn

Do you know this Other Man? What led to the circumstance that your wife encountered this man? What was the reaction of his wife when you told her?

Do you know how long this affair went on? Walking into your wife in your own home must be very shocking. Sorry that you are here.


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## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> You've exposed OM.
> 
> Since you are divorcing it may make it harder to negotiate with STBX if you expose further. The only reason would be to get it off your chest. I believe in sharing the pain.
> 
> If you live in a no fault state and you would happen to cause STBX to lose her job it could mean higher alimony.
> 
> Who else would you expose to and for what purpose?
> 
> Remember you will have some sort of contact due to the children for many years.


Yes OM exposed to his wife. No fault here. 1 year separation mandatory, then divorce.

I agree, exposure now makes it more difficult to maintain the relationship as we work through the separation agreement. I think right now I just need to get to the end of the agreement signed, then 180 minus dealing with the kids welfare. To be clear if I even considered exposure at this point im not sure I would broadcast. If it came up organically, then maybe I would discuss it. Im so torn on this one. What of the kids? 11 and 14.


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## Lots to Learn

Roselyn said:


> Do you know this Other Man? What led to the circumstance that your wife encountered this man? What was the reaction of his wife when you told her?
> 
> Do you know how long this affair went on? Walking into your wife in your own home must be very shocking. Sorry that you are here.


Good questions, I didn't mention any of this. He is a contractor who we have known for some time. He has been doing projects for us and friends for some time. This past spring he did a major renovation at our house. In addition my wife had used him in the past for her clients. This is where their EA and subsequent PA started. They bonded through this process. He is married with a 8 yr old son.

His wife was well....shattered. The affair started in April of this year and I discovered it August 16.


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## The Middleman

Lots to Learn said:


> Im so torn on this one. What of the kids? 11 and 14.


Please read my earlier post on this.


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## The Middleman

Lots to Learn said:


> Good questions, I didn't mention any of this. He is a contractor who we have known for some time. He has been doing projects for us and friends for some time. This past spring he did a major renovation at our house. In addition my wife had used him in the past for her clients. This is where their EA and subsequent PA started. They bonded through this process. He is married with a 8 yr old son.
> 
> His wife was well....shattered. The affair started in April of this year and I discovered it August 16.


How did your wife handle your exposure of the OM?


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## Bibi1031

Lots to Learn said:


> What of exposure at this point? Any value? I dont see it at this point but maybe I am blowing smoke..


To be honest with you, I would expose it to immediate family on both sides. Her adultery is not something You should be ashamed of...SHE should!
You will need the support of family and friends. They need to know the awful truth in order to better understand and help you through the healing process.

You're a good man no doubt about that. You don't want to expose your WS to shame, but this journey is now ALL about you and you can't afford to keep this secret from your biggest source of support which only family and close friends can give you.

Peace and light for you lots to Learn,

Bibi


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## Marc878

I would consult a GOOD therapist and get some guidance on how to tell the kids. They are young and they need to know the truth but it should be done carefully. Consult a few and check them out thoroughly. 

Be careful here! You have time. Their mother should be in on this decision. 

Your goal is to get them through this with the least possible harm. 

I would not lie or hold the truth from them but they are children and should have the utmost consideration given.


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## Lots to Learn

The Middleman said:


> How did your wife handle your exposure of the OM?


That was day one, she was very remorseful. She did not resist.


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## Marc878

Lots to Learn said:


> Good questions, I didn't mention any of this. He is a contractor who we have known for some time. He has been doing projects for us and friends for some time. This past spring he did a major renovation at our house. In addition my wife had used him in the past for her clients. This is where their EA and subsequent PA started. They bonded through this process. He is married with a 8 yr old son.
> 
> His wife was well....shattered. The affair started in April of this year and I discovered it August 16.


If it were me I'd strategically inform others on this OM. Just for the payback and would anyone trust this person in their home?????


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## Lots to Learn

Bibi1031 said:


> To be honest with you, I would expose it to immediate family on both sides. Her adultery is not something You should be ashamed of...SHE should!
> You will need the support of family and friends. They need to know the awful truth in order to better understand and help you through the healing process.
> 
> You're a good man no doubt about that. You don't want to expose your WS to shame, but this journey is now ALL about you and you can't afford to keep this secret from your biggest source of support which only family and close friends can give you.
> 
> Peace and light for you lots to Learn,
> 
> Bibi


Bibi, thank you. I understand all of this. That has been part of the struggle to date is going through all of this alone. Well not alone we have been dealing with this and our other issues alone. Ill confess its been very hard. People know something is wrong, and I know I cant talk about half of it, so I say very little. As for the shame etc, its ironic I also feel humiliated, ashamed, and embarrassed about it all. I haven't synthesized why yet I only know thats how I am feeling. I guess I feel ashamed that we failed, and we failed the kids. It sucks as neither of us thought this would be us, and I certainly never thought she would do that. But thats what I learned here it can and does happen. Fawk!


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## Marc878

It appears she knew you were onto something and continued anyway. Pretty brazen. This is who you'll be dealing with during the divorce settlement so due the utmost to cover yourself thoroughly.

You cannot trust her and when she wakes up she'll probably try and get as much as possible. Assets, etc.

Did you discover by accident or were you in surveillance mode?


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## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> It appears she knew you were onto something and continued anyway. Pretty brazen. This is who you'll be dealing with during the divorce settlement so due the utmost to cover yourself thoroughly.
> 
> You cannot trust her and when she wakes up she'll probably try and get as much as possible. Assets, etc.
> 
> Did you discover by accident or were you in surveillance mode?


Marc;

I was on to it based on everything I learned here. I took a respectful approach considering having nothing concrete. The 1000 text in a month, the credit card bills, the withdrawals from the bank. When compared to text I was having from those days it was all wrong. I approached her with no anger with all of this and essentially said look at this, tell me whats going on. If there is something going on lets talk about it, it is ok. I meant it, hell if you want out just say so. But no just lies, and gaslighting. I will say this was the most painful part. I was coming apart knowing but not knowing. Like I said I was sleeping 3 hours a night, I lost 30lbs, etc. Its been quite a journey, one which I wouldn't have been where I am without all you folks.


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## Marc878

Bibi, thank you. I understand all of this. That has been part of the struggle to date is going through all of this alone. Well not alone we have been dealing with this and our other issues alone. Ill confess its been very hard. People know something is wrong, and I know I cant talk about half of it, so I say very little. As for the shame etc, its ironic I also feel humiliated, ashamed, and embarrassed about it all. I haven't synthesized why yet I only know thats how I am feeling. I guess I feel ashamed that we failed, and we failed the kids. It sucks as neither of us thought this would be us, and I certainly never thought she would do that. But thats what I learned here it can and does happen. Fawk!

It's natural to feel this way but C'mon this part is all on her. If she wanted a divorce fine but this?

Especially the circumstances!!! Get this over with quickly so you can move on with your life.


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## Marc878

Lots to Learn said:


> Marc;
> 
> I was on to it based on everything I learned here. I took a respectful approach considering having nothing concrete. The 1000 text in a month, the credit card bills, the withdrawals from the bank. When compared to text I was having from those days it was all wrong. I approached her with no anger with all of this and essentially said look at this, tell me whats going on. If there is something going on lets talk about it, it is ok. I meant it, hell if you want out just say so. But no just lies, and gaslighting. I will say this was the most painful part. I was coming apart knowing but not knowing. Like I said I was sleeping 3 hours a night, I lost 30lbs, etc. Its been quite a journey, one which I wouldn't have been where I am without all you folks.


I hate to say this but you are lucky in one respect. Some go through this never knowing the full truth (it's a killer). You got the full story in spades! Sorry for that.


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## aine

You have to expose her as You need friends and family to rely on and tbh She may well re-write history to her family and your kids. Your kids are old enough to know something is major wrong in your family, esp the 14 year old. They must know the truth, not the graphic details, as they will need the love and empathy of the family and friends. All too often kids are told nothing and end up blaming themselves as misguided adults keep them in the dark.

Exposure will also ensure accountability. Their jobs involve them being in others homes and with many people, people should be aware. 

You also need to continue IC for yourself and maybe the kids at some point.

Emotionally detach from your WW with the 180, she is no longer your friend. Be careful as she may well want you to be plan B.

Sorry you are here.


Get a good lawyer and sort out your finances.


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## Roselyn

Reading your posts, I would say that you need to see a divorce attorney to protect your rights and your children's. Listen to the advice of your attorney. You have given your wife enough chances to come clean. Yet, she continued to lie and had sex in your own home and in your own marital bed. Woman here, and not sympathetic to female nor male cheaters.

If your attorney advises you to expose, you should tell the whole truth on your discovering her having sex in your own home. She will rewrite your history if you let her and she'll make you the culprit. She is a deceitful wife. You should also warn pertinent members of your community as I believe that this man is a predator and will victimize vulnerable idiotic women like your wife.

See a psychologist to help you through your mindset. Having children makes it complicated for the betrayed spouse. However, your wife did not think of them while having her carnal pleasures.
The sooner you deal with this problem, the better it will for you.


----------



## Bibi1031

Lots to Learn said:


> lAs for the shame etc, its ironic I also feel humiliated, ashamed, and embarrassed about it all.



This is completely normal. In time you will see that those feelings are useless and not one bit true.

I felt them, but thank God it only lasted about 2 hours after DD.

He told me all about his second chance at love :2gunsfiring_v1:
Only after I overheard him talking to her on the phone of course. Two hours later when he finished talking, I woke everyone up and told everyone on both sides of the family the awful truth.

We are conditioned since childhood to feel shame and humiliation when something shameful is disclosed whether it's our fault or not. Well your wife is your other half and it takes your head and your heart a long time to change this. If that isn't a good enough reason, You are also a very private person and you wouldn't air your dirty laundry. 

Why then would it surprise you that you are mirroring her feelings? You are NOT a reflection of her selfish choices. she owns 100% of those feelings that you are carrying around for her. Just stop that! ( I know easier said than done right?)

Gotta laugh and shake our heads at just how much we can love these bas...turds eh?

Bibi


----------



## Marc878

You now have to take care of yourself. Get a gym membership. Exercise will help take your mind of it somewhat. Get on a healthy diet. Stay away from the fast foods as much as practical. Don't let yourself go.

Plan some activities with the kids they'll need some attention from their dad. 

All this will help you get through it.


----------



## Be smart

Oh man I am sorry for you. Walking on them in your own house,in your own bad, sick.

You wife keeps lying to you over and over again,even when you approached her.
Also you two agreed to MC and you caught her the next day. This tells me my friend she is not into saving her marriage,trust me on this one.

You need to expose her affair to both familys and your friends. Also go to clinic and check for any STDs.

I think your wife is only sorry because she got caught,and this affair is maybe going a little bit longer.

For me worst betrayel is when H or W bring them to house. Where were your kids when she was in bed with OM ?

Talk to lawyer asap.

Stay strong my friend


----------



## Satya

I truly for the life of me cannot understand why you'd go on a camping trip with a woman you caught practically the night before in your bed with the OM. It's like rewarding her and also lowering your standards in one swift strike. I just cannot understand.... I truly hope you are seeking counseling and are taking away some good advice here.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Bibi1031 said:


> This is completely normal. In time you will see that those feelings are useless and not one bit true.
> 
> I felt them, but thank God it only lasted about 2 hours after DD.
> 
> He told me all about his second chance at love :2gunsfiring_v1:
> Only after I overheard him talking to her on the phone of course. Two hours later when he finished talking, I woke everyone up and told everyone on both sides of the family the awful truth.
> 
> We are conditioned since childhood to feel shame and humiliation when something shameful is disclosed whether it's our fault or not. Well your wife is your other half and it takes your head and your heart a long time to change this. If that isn't a good enough reason, You are also a very private person and you wouldn't air your dirty laundry.
> 
> Why then would it surprise you that you are mirroring her feelings? You are NOT a reflection of her selfish choices. she owns 100% of those feelings that you are carrying around for her. Just stop that! ( I know easier said than done right?)
> 
> Gotta laugh and shake our heads at just how much we can love these bas...turds eh?
> 
> Bibi


Bibi, what you are saying makes sense to me with respect to mirroring of feeling. I suppose its natural after all this time. Like you said easier said than done. I suppose that's why I need to move to D asap so I can get more space and deal with all of these issues properly. 

Looking fwd I am dreading the sit down with the kids. Indeed this is the only remaining task that is still bringing me to my knees. The thought of the look on their faces. So brutal...Just cant get the thought that we failed these kids out of my mind. Writing this down is showing me Im still not ok.

How did you all sit with the kids? How did you frame it all? We were thinking of doing them separately because of the age difference. Remember this isnt just about the affair. My wife would argue and I would agree we were on this path more than likely from our previous state. Unfortunately the affair just put a ****ty ending to it all. I guess that's the real kicker for me. If my wife came to me when she was so deeply unhappy and said look this isnt working...that would of hurt, no doubt. But I we would of dealt with it and I have no doubt that over time we would have had a good friendship. But now with this as the closing act, it makes it so ****ty. Its taken so much away from what our marriage was, and of course whatever our relationship could be in the future.


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## happyman64

LtoL

You really do have much to learn.

"We" failed the kids. Wrong.

Did you lie to your wife or kids? No.
Did you cheat on your wife or kids? No.
Did you have an affair that not only ended your marriage but broke up your family? No.

Were you father of the year? Probably not. But your interaction with your children whether it was marginal or not was no reason for your wife to have an affair, lie, cheat for months and end in a pretty vivid DDay.

But as you have personally seen the damage is very real.

I think you need to do a few things.

A. Expose the affair to both your families. It gets all the dirt out there. But do it in a way that asks for your families support and you both go through this divorce amicably.

"Dear Family and Friends,

It is with sadness in my heart and I announce that Mrs LtoL and I go through the steps to dissolve our marriage. I am unable to reconcile with Mrs LtoL due to her affair.

Please support our family as we go through this difficult time.

Mr LtoL"

That is how you do it. gets the crap out there.

Stop feeling guilty that you had difficulty with a relationship with your children. That is not why wife had an affair with the contractor.

She had the affair because she is selfish.

Now show her consequences. Expose the affair. Get it out in the open. 

Have that conversation with your boys together.

And remember. Your wife is no longer your friend. She lost that right when she chose to lie and cheat.

Now she is just a coparent. Her heart sounds like she is not into R at all.

WAW is a better description. WAW = Selfish in my dictionary.

Now focus on you and the boys. If you do that right a 180 is not needed.

HM


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## arbitrator

*Trust me, @Lots to Learn: she ain't exactly your friend anymore! And you damn well shouldn't be her's!

Friends don't legitimately betray their friends; married friends don't drop their drawers for other "friends" to take advantage of! More especially in their married domicile and in the confines of their marriage bed! In my mind's eye, that's tantamount to "grave robbing!"

You need to get conversent with the precepts of "the 180," make those kids of yours your primary focus, stay in counseling, get yourself a "piranha" family attorney who will rip those pretty little drawers of hers! And please get yourself tested for the presence of STD's! 

Regarding the condo, make that her home as you need the primary one to raise those kids of yours in!

By the way, is she still involved with this POSOM? If so, I'd get a restraining order against her thereby prohibiting her from bringing your kids anywhere around him until such time the D is finalized!!

Just food for thought, my friend!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lots to Learn

Satya said:


> I truly for the life of me cannot understand why you'd go on a camping trip with a woman you caught practically the night before in your bed with the OM. It's like rewarding her and also lowering your standards in one swift strike. I just cannot understand.... I truly hope you are seeking counseling and are taking away some good advice here.


Satya;

Im not sure if I can offer a rational reason for this. As you can imagine it was a blur. Im not sure I recall much of that first week at all other than the physical and emotional pain.

I suppose we were both so broken at that moment and we needed to talk about it, and what we would do going fwd. We did, we talked all weekend. It was very painful.


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## Forest

What you'll get here are opinions, but with them hopefully some nuggets will pop out that make sense to you. Things you can realize are something you've been searching for.

From what I can tell, you're no one's fool, and know which end is up most of the time. You're a quick, and rational person.

To a person like you, I'd say you should look at this as you might a festering, lingering, detrimental situation you might encounter at work, or observe from without. Step back, and see what the clear path is. I believe it is wading in and casting aside the muck, cleaning house, and holding people accountable. 

Your wife made a vow and commitment to you, and did not honor it. Further, she stabbed you in the back and lied to you. The POS OM involved here had the bad sense and nerve to insert himself into another man's marriage. He invaded your home. Both of these people need to see clearly what consequences arise from this type of behavior. 

Like it or not, this is the crap world we live in. People are let off left and right, never held to account. This constitutes TWO failures, you understand that? Failing to hold people accountable is also a failure, which weakens the fabric of our society.

Wade into these people, throw some soap and sunlight on them, and you'll at least know you were the one that stood up for something. (will they were slinking around like rats in an alley)


----------



## Lots to Learn

Forest said:


> What you'll get here are opinions, but with them hopefully some nuggets will pop out that make sense to you. Things you can realize are something you've been searching for.
> 
> From what I can tell, you're no one's fool, and know which end is up most of the time. You're a quick, and rational person.
> 
> To a person like you, I'd say you should look at this as you might a festering, lingering, detrimental situation you might encounter at work, or observe from without. Step back, and see what the clear path is. I believe it is wading in and casting aside the muck, cleaning house, and holding people accountable.
> 
> Your wife made a vow and commitment to you, and did not honor it. Further, she stabbed you in the back and lied to you. The POS OM involved here had the bad sense and nerve to insert himself into another man's marriage. He invaded your home. Both of these people need to see clearly what consequences arise from this type of behavior.
> 
> Like it or not, this is the crap world we live in. People are let off left and right, never held to account. This constitutes TWO failures, you understand that? Failing to hold people accountable is also a failure, which weakens the fabric of our society.
> 
> Wade into these people, throw some soap and sunlight on them, and you'll at least know you were the one that stood up for something. (will they were slinking around like rats in an alley)


Thank you. You have chaacterized things in a way that I agree. If you were to expose what level of deatil do you go into? It doesnt seem right to just say there was a affair. The lies and deceptions leading to discovery were the most painful part, and I guess upon reflection are what I need to get off my chest. Of course that and the spectacular end and everything that that was.


----------



## NoChoice

OP, 
My children were grown so I did not have the unenviable task that you face. As such, what I offer does not come from direct personal experience but rather from my feeling of what I would have done. The children will become cognizant of the situation, you cannot prevent it. The choice is will they learn the truth from you (two) or supposition and here say from others. For instance, if other children notice that you or your wife are absent at certain times and asks your child "where is your mom/dad" and your child answers that mom/dad are not together, the other child, being from a broken home, may "inform" your child of how his father/mother was a cheating, lying, low life dirtbag because that is what the other child's mother/father told them. Now your child is left to ponder if one of his parents is a low life dirtbag.

For this reason and others, I believe I would minimally disclose whatever age appropriate information you and she feel necessary to allow each child the opportunity to rebuff any errant information that others may purpose to them. I also feel it critically important to strongly emphasize to your children that, at ANY time going forward, if they have any questions about what happened and why to be sure that they come to you (two) and that you will answer them honestly. In this way they have the information necessary to deal with others and the assurance that if they do have questions arise later, and they will as they mature, that they will be answered honestly.

As co-parents it is the responsibility of you and your STBX to disclose to them honestly and accurately the information they will need. I feel that by doing this they can eventually see that although the marriage was troubled and ended up in dissolution, that at least it was handled maturely and as best it could be given the circumstances.

As a caveat I would posit the following. I feel that IF (please note the big IF) both parents are fully committed to R that it is almost always better to try and keep the family together. I feel that IF the WS is fully contrite and fully cognizant of the damage they caused and fully committed to repairing that damage for the sake of their family and IF the BS accepts their failings in the marriage (NOT THE A, THAT IS ALL ON WS) and can move beyond the betrayal that the resultant relationship can be stronger and more secure than before the A. I feel this to be the the best possible outcome for the children. However, you indicated that your wife was committed to R in word only and that her actions did not reflect same. That is regrettable. I wish you happiness and good fortune.


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## Lots to Learn

intheory said:


> Detached, remote fathering skills = understandable that wife would have an affair.
> 
> No. No. No.


Are you willing to drill into this further?


----------



## Forest

Lots to Learn said:


> Thank you. You have chaacterized things in a way that I agree. If you were to expose what level of deatil do you go into? It doesnt seem right to just say there was a affair. The lies and deceptions leading to discovery were the most painful part, and I guess upon reflection are what I need to get off my chest. Of course that and the spectacular end and everything that that was.


Hmm. Not to dodge the question, but I guess the exposure details issue is also part of the "step back" assessment. 

What was it that disturbs your thoughts most? What do you find particularly appalling and premeditated? No need to be graphic with details, but there must be some overall themes you could bring to light that would represent just how intentional and harmful their actions were. Something that captures the lack of remorse; lack of concern for the people they were going to hurt. That is one of the elements of affairs that just boils me. They absolutely understand how devastating this will be to their families, "loved ones", and don't care.


----------



## Lots to Learn

intheory said:


> Sure.
> 
> You basically described your fathering skills as not what they should be.
> 
> *Correct, for many years. *
> 
> So you understand (?) that your wife might not be as much in love with you anymore because of that.
> 
> *Correct. Being like that and not addressing it over time built much resentment in her. Eventually she effectively detached. I was to ignorant to recognize that at first.*
> 
> Is that correct?
> 
> All I'm saying is; that isn't right.
> 
> Have you understated how poor your fathering skills were?
> 
> *No I have nothing to hide here. There was no abuse, I love my kids, they love me of course. We do have a good relationship. I didnt understand at that time how to connect to the kids. IC has shown me why that was, and it all seems so simple now. I may have understated my wife's resentment about it. But truly I didnt understand the depth of it until this ordeal.*
> 
> Then if you feel comfortable, share what you did so poorly.
> 
> *In a nut shell I didnt have a strong emotional bond. Not that I didnt care for them of course. I just was not as warm as one would expect a parent to be. Not to say I dont own this, I do, but what I learned from IC was this I learned from my own parents. When faced with a child issue I would resort to only what I knew which is my experience with my parents. Like she said, and it was a "a hah" moment was "how did you think you would be?"
> 
> Again I dont want to diminish my role in this aspect it. I own it and I have and will likely continue to pay the consequences of this for some time.
> *
> 
> 
> If you don't feel comfortable sharing that; that's understandable too. I get not wanting to air your dirty laundry with the whole world.
> 
> But this is anonymous; and you are looking for help and input.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Forest said:


> Hmm. Not to dodge the question, but I guess the exposure details issue is also part of the "step back" assessment.
> 
> What was it that disturbs your thoughts most? What do you find particularly appalling and premeditated? No need to be graphic with details, but there must be some overall themes you could bring to light that would represent just how intentional and harmful their actions were. Something that captures the lack of remorse; lack of concern for the people they were going to hurt. That is one of the elements of affairs that just boils me. They absolutely understand how devastating this will be to their families, "loved ones", and don't care.


Well I think you have nailed it. What disturbs me the most is essentially what you described. The lies, the deciept. All the while coming home like everything is ok. Most disturbing is when I was onto the affair but nothing concrete yet, and her denials. She could see I was literally falling apart, and despite trying to have a intelligent conversation where she could confess and move, on she continued the lies. So bold, so hurtful. I think that hurt the most.


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## Marc878

All marriages have issues. For various reasons. Most people talk about their problems maybe get some help like counciling, etc. like you were doing.

They don't bring an AP into their home for sex. This was extremely reckless and says a lot about who your wife really is. 

I'm not sure what she was thinking? Destroy the marriage so it couldn't be repaired. Or thinking they couldn't be caught? Maybe had plans to divorce so they could be together?

Only time will tell but the way it usually goes is the OM will reconcile with his wife and drop yours. If OM divorces will he take up with your STBX? Maybe but the chances are it'll never survive.

The thing is you have to provide some stability for your kids throughout this. Stay close to them, give them a lot of your time. They will need you more now than before. Develope your parenting skills. You'll find just being with them doing things together goes a long way. You can do this!


----------



## Lots to Learn

intheory said:


> I still don't see what you have done so terrible as a father.
> 
> You've provided well. There was never any abuse. You are on good terms with them now. You weren't perfect. Okay.
> 
> But that's besides the point. What I originally meant to say is that it is not an excuse/reason/inducement, and so forth, for your wife to have an affair.
> 
> She thinks your parenting skills are off? She should keep at you about it. That's a real family difficulty that needs to be solved.
> 
> But how does getting into bed with another man, solve the issue that you were an emotionally distant parent to her children?
> 
> Answer: it doesn't.
> 
> So don't ever let her say that her behavior was justified on that account.


Understood. This is how she has rationalized it I suppose. Dont get me wrong there is a big part of her that is remorseful. She knows that it has cause a great deal of pain and in her words.." I didnt deserve that".

We have tried to talk about our issues numerous times. I am able to talk about all of it, and indeed need to. She is not. When we get into the affair discussion she invariably just deflects with the parenting issues etc. We never get anywhere with it despite me trying to keep them as 2 distinct discussions. Connected? Sure..but we can talk about one at a time. Or at least I can. So in the final analysis I've learned that if she is going to deflect in this way we will never be able to reconcile and told her I want the D.

Like I said earlier my struggle now is reconciling the fact that this will likely also be the end of our friendship and it hurts.


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## Bibi1031

With regards to your wife justifying her reasons to be driven to other man's arms...take it all with a grain of salt (in other words, don't drink her koolaid LtoL)

She is rewriting history to justify looking at herself in the mirror and not hating herself. It's better to turn this hatred on you and that's what she did and is still doing. 

She had to demonize you in order to justify doing this terrible thing to you. Poor woman, she is a rotten mess!

You will be surprised at your kids' reaction, I was with mine and in a good way; they are more mature than you think. You did not fail them, more of your crazy mirroring dude. I'm afraid they do need to know that adultery was involved and that will be hard. Both my kids had a very high suspicion that good ole daddy-o was running around on mom by the time we sat down and talked to both of them at the same time.

Unknown to me they had witnessed idiotic mistakes dad did while in the influence of the affair high that made my poor kids add two and two together when their dad's affair came to light.

((((Hugs))))) more love, light, peace and cyber hugs heading your way LtoL,

You will be ok. This too shall pass.

Bibi


----------



## Marc878

intheory said:


> I still don't see what you have done so terrible as a father.
> 
> You've provided well. There was never any abuse. You are on good terms with them now. You weren't perfect. Okay.
> 
> But that's besides the point. What I originally meant to say is that it is not an excuse/reason/inducement, and so forth, for your wife to have an affair.
> 
> She thinks your parenting skills are off? She should keep at you about it. That's a real family difficulty that needs to be solved.
> 
> But how does getting into bed with another man, solve the issue that you were an emotionally distant parent to her children?
> 
> Answer: it doesn't.
> 
> So don't ever let her say that her behavior was justified on that account.


Excellent point here. 

It says your STBX was thinking only of herself. You and the kids weren't part of her equation. Now that you step back and look. Pretty selfish. Especially when she brought OM into your home for this. Very reckless!!!! What good parent/mother does this??? Answer: NONE


----------



## Lots to Learn

Bibi1031 said:


> With regards to your wife justifying her reasons to be driven to other man's arms...take it all with a grain of salt (in other words, don't drink her koolaid LtoL)
> 
> She is rewriting history to justify looking at herself in the mirror and not hating herself. It's better to turn this hatred on you and that's what she did and is still doing.
> 
> She had to demonize you in order to justify doing this terrible thing to you. Poor woman, she is a rotten mess!
> 
> You will be surprised at your kids' reaction, I was with mine and in a good way; they are more mature than you think. You did not fail them, more of your crazy mirroring dude. I'm afraid they do need to know that adultery was involved and that will be hard. Both my kids had a very high suspicion that good ole daddy-o was running around on mom by the time we sat down and talked to both of them at the same time.
> 
> Unknown to me they had witnessed idiotic mistakes dad did while in the influence of the affair high that made my poor kids add two and two together when their dad's affair came to light.
> 
> ((((Hugs))))) more love, light, peace and cyber hugs heading your way LtoL,
> 
> You will be ok. This too shall pass.
> 
> Bibi


Bibi what you are saying makes sense with respect to the rationalization. I wouldn't say she is demonizing me per se, as we talk daily and as a family we have been spending every weekend together. That said, the rationalizing is for her in her mind. I can see that, and I know she is struggling with it whether outwardly she say so or not.

Again thanks to you all, perhaps I should have been posting weeks ago when this all started.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> Excellent point here.
> 
> It says your STBX was thinking only of herself. You and the kids weren't part of her equation. Now that you step back and look. Pretty selfish. Especially when she brought OM into your home for this. Very reckless!!!! What good parent/mother does this??? Answer: NONE


Marc you have now defined where I have finally arrived. Over the past few weeks I have been thinking I can make this work etc. But just in last few days I have come to the realization exactly as you describe.


----------



## Marc878

I've been in finance for years.

People that steal, embezzle always justify their actions that what they stole was actually owed to them anyway. Cheaters when caught do the same. It was circumstances that made them do it. Yeah right. When the bright lights are shined on it the truth alway comes to the surface.

Your wife is blame shifting to make this affair out to be your fault. Do not fall for this one second. She'll deflect and try to make you the issue. You were in the midst of going to MC to work on your problems and had gone to IC to make yourself better. 

And she is justified in bringing an OM into your home for sex?????????? Very sick. She needs help more than you do at this point.

Cheaters mostly follow the same pattern. Lie, deceive and attempt to deflect. You cannot trust her so be on guard. Next will come the finances. She will now take as much as she can get. Be prepared!


----------



## Bibi1031

Lots to Learn said:


> Well I think you have nailed it. What disturbs me the most is essentially what you described. The lies, the deciept. All the while coming home like everything is ok. Most disturbing is when I was onto the affair but nothing concrete yet, and her denials. She could see I was literally falling apart, and despite trying to have a intelligent conversation where she could confess and move, on she continued the lies. So bold, so hurtful. I think that hurt the most.


Hurray Lots to Learn! 

You are not drinking her koolaid, let her swallow it all. I hope it gives her a huge belly ache from hell that will have her hugging the pot lots and lots of times.>

just like you had a gutt feeling that something was not at all well, your children will add two and two together as well. Believe me, they have suspicions too because SHE forever changed their world when she brought the tsunami into your home when she spread them for the low life she chose to change her family's love, well being, safety, and security for. 

You will be the sane parent your kids need the most right now, thank God you are so sane in such mind boggling situation. They will have to rebuild the relationship they will want to have with messed up mom.

You rock dude! You're an awesome dad too!

Bibi


----------



## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> I've been in finance for years.
> 
> People that steal, embezzle always justify their actions that what they stole was actually owed to them anyway. Cheaters when caught do the same. It was circumstances that made them do it. Yeah right. When the bright lights are shined on it the truth alway comes to the surface.
> 
> Your wife is blame shifting to make this affair out to be your fault. Do not fall for this one second. She'll deflect and try to make you the issue. You were in the midst of going to MC to work on your problems and had gone to IC to make yourself better.
> 
> And she is justified in bringing an OM into your home for sex?????????? Very sick. She needs help more than you do at this point.
> 
> Cheaters mostly follow the same pattern. Lie, deceive and attempt to deflect. You cannot trust her so be on guard. Next will come the finances. She will now take as much as she can get. Be prepared!


So I wonder now...

We are about to see the a mediator and work out our separation agreement. I dont foresee any issues here we will both land just fine. I am going to look at houses today, and we have a meeting with the bank Weds. I am inclined to just get the agreement and move on, go dark with the exception of managing the kids affairs.

I dont foresee myself broadcasting anything but when family and/or friends approach to discuss (they will) if it comes up then I should talk about all of it. There is another part of me that says just go dark, let it go, there is nothing to be gained by doing so.

I am conflicted.


----------



## Marc878

So I wonder now...

We are about to see the a mediator and work out our separation agreement. I dont foresee any issues here we will both land just fine. I am going to look at houses today, and we have a meeting with the bank Weds. I am inclined to just get the agreement and move on, go dark with the exception of managing the kids affairs.

I dont foresee myself broadcasting anything but when family and/or friends approach to discuss (they will) if it comes up then I should talk about all of it. There is another part of me that says just go dark, let it go, there is nothing to be gained by doing so.

I am conflicted.


This is your life not anyone else's. You don't owe anyone anything. You don't need to explain. Except for your children.

Think it through and do what makes you the most 
comfortable. How you handle this is up to you. Remember, you will have to live with this forever.
As with anything this important think it through. There is no prescribed script in a mess like this. Do what you think is best and what you can live with long term


----------



## alte Dame

I think you owe something to at least some people in this mess:

- Your children and your families deserve the truth. Do not sweep it under the rug with family; get professional help on how to tell your children why you are divorcing (and, please, none of this 'we grew apart and are both responsible, so as a result your mother had an affair).

- When the divorce is as good as done, let your community know what this OM is doing with his clients. Myself? I would post it on yelp and any other site that I could find. If your WW is a realtor or something similar, let the local people in that profession know what they are facing if they hire this guy.

Silence and fear allows this stuff to propagate. Your children deserve honesty, in my opinion, and your community needs to be informed.


----------



## Forest

Bibi1031 said:


> With regards to your wife justifying her reasons to be driven to other man's arms...take it all with a grain of salt (in other words, don't drink her koolaid LtoL)
> 
> She is rewriting history to justify looking at herself in the mirror and not hating herself. It's better to turn this hatred on you and that's what she did and is still doing.
> 
> She had to demonize you in order to justify doing this terrible thing to you. Poor woman, she is a rotten mess!
> 
> 
> 
> Bibi



Yes. Don't fall for her excuses, and outlandish spin on things. She's already demonstrated that she can't make good decisions, and lies. Why would this be different?

Cheaters, by nature, are liars. They lie repeatedly until it becomes a pattern in their behavior. A habit. They even lie to themselves. 

She doesn't want to look at herself as a common lying, backstabbing, low down cheater. So, she must convince herself that she is not to blame. She is the "good guy", so YOU must be the "bad guy". She wouldn't do something cruel and heartless, YOU must have drove her to it. This circular, idiotic thinking is whirling all the time. 

Cheaters can't deal with being a bad, awful person, so they convince themselves (and sometimes others, or you) that YOU are the problem.

They'll pick fights, find fault constantly, always point out anything you do wrong. This helps them convince themselves they've been wronged. They wouldn't behave this way unless you drove them to it. They are a victim.

Lets face it. A spouse that is lying, committing adultery, and hurting their family is no one worth believing when they mount their defense.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Forest said:


> Yes. Don't fall for her excuses, and outlandish spin on things. She's already demonstrated that she can't make good decisions, and lies. Why would this be different?
> 
> Cheaters, by nature, are liars. They lie repeatedly until it becomes a pattern in their behavior. A habit. They even lie to themselves.
> 
> She doesn't want to look at herself as a common lying, backstabbing, low down cheater. So, she must convince herself that she is not to blame. She is the "good guy", so YOU must be the "bad guy". She wouldn't do something cruel and heartless, YOU must have drove her to it. This circular, idiotic thinking is whirling all the time.
> 
> Cheaters can't deal with being a bad, awful person, so they convince themselves (and sometimes others, or you) that YOU are the problem.
> 
> They'll pick fights, find fault constantly, always point out anything you do wrong. This helps them convince themselves they've been wronged. They wouldn't behave this way unless you drove them to it. They are a victim.
> 
> Lets face it. A spouse that is lying, committing adultery, and hurting their family is no one worth believing when they mount their defense.


All great thoughts I thank you all. Do you see value in having this discussion just like you say above in the context of any friendship moving fwd? She has telegraphed this question a few times this week, and I would like to say why we cant at this point and the reasons why. Or would you just go dark on it?


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## Bibi1031

Lots to Learn said:


> All great thoughts I thank you all. Do you see value in having this discussion just like you say above in the context of any friendship moving fwd? She has telegraphed this question a few times this week, and I would like to say why we cant at this point and the reasons why. Or would you just go dark on it?


My wonderful therapist told me something that was very useful to me when I did the going dark/180. If your WS asks a question answer it truthfully. There is no right or wrong in anything you do in this YOUR journey.


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## Marc878

Bibi1031 said:


> My wonderful therapist told me something that was very useful to me when I did the going dark/180. If your WS asks a question answer it truthfully. There is no right or wrong in anything you do in this YOUR journey.



Excellent advice!

The truth is always the best. 

This probably isn't over yet either. As you go through mediation, etc don't be surprised at her pulling the reconciliation card out. At some point she will probably wake up and take a look at what her future may be. Some can make it but in this case with the amount of destruction/damage I suspect not.

No matter what it's very hard to let go. Some waste years and end up never making it or live with bitter memories, etc.

You are in your prime age wise and will be smarter, wiser and better prepared to begin the rest of your life. There are good women out there who would love to find a good man. 

Your life will be what you make it. Time is something you can't get back so please don't waste it on a hopeless situation. In the end that's your call and you have to make it.


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## arbitrator

Marc878 said:


> I've been in finance for years.
> 
> *People that steal, embezzle always justify their actions that what they stole was actually owed to them anyway. Cheaters when caught do the same. It was circumstances that made them do it.* Yeah right. When the bright lights are shined on it the truth alway comes to the surface.
> 
> Your wife is blame shifting to make this affair out to be your fault. Do not fall for this one second. She'll deflect and try to make you the issue. You were in the midst of going to MC to work on your problems and had gone to IC to make yourself better.
> 
> And she is justified in bringing an OM into your home for sex?????????? Very sick. She needs help more than you do at this point.
> 
> Cheaters mostly follow the same pattern. Lie, deceive and attempt to deflect. You cannot trust her so be on guard. Next will come the finances. She will now take as much as she can get. Be prepared!


*Now if that doesn't sound like my rich, skanky ex-wife's behavioral patterns, then nothing does! Although worth millions, she would literally steal pennies off of a dead man's eyes!*


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## Marc878

All great thoughts I thank you all. Do you see value in having this discussion just like you say above in the context of any friendship moving fwd? She has telegraphed this question a few times this week, and I would like to say why we cant at this point and the reasons why. Or would you just go dark on it?


This may be a way for her to make herself feel better about the mess she's caused. We're still friends!!!! A true friend is above all trusting and honest. Apparently she is neither. Why lie to yourself and her?

You don't necessarily owe her an answer on this but it may be worth taking the time to explain your thoughts/feelings. You can be civil in dealing with the children but I suspect at this point you don't want/need her in your life going forward. 

The more contact you have with her will just make it more difficult for you to move on and somehow get over this. Maybe deliver your message and stop all unnecessary contact.


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## Satya

Stay quiet at the risk of your stbx possibly stabbing you in the back by telling everyone that you're the bad guy.

I say possibly... many cheaters paint a lie to tell their side of the story as a means of alleviating or lessening their own guilt if they think it will net them support so that they may character assassinate you.

By speaking the truth in a way that is honest and does not villainize your stbx (but shares the big picture in an adult manner, telling it like it is) you're being responsible.

People will think what they think, and it shouldn't matter one bit to you whether they get it or not. At the end of the day, you won't have any problems sleeping at night... but if you're silent you may come to resent not having said something sooner.

That's just my opinion.


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## TBT

As the OM was doing contract work for friends of yours as well,maybe you should at least inform them. Your WW may have not been the only one.


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## The Middleman

alte Dame said:


> I think you owe something to at least some people in this mess:
> 
> - *Your children and your families deserve the truth. Do not sweep it under the rug with family;* get professional help on how to tell your children why you are divorcing (and, please, *none of this 'we grew apart and are both responsible, so as a result your mother had an affair*).
> 
> - When the divorce is as good as done, *let your community know what this OM is doing with his clients. Myself? I would post it on yelp and any other site that I could find*. If your WW is a realtor or something similar, let the local people in that profession know what they are facing if they hire this guy.
> 
> *Silence and fear allows this stuff to propagate. Your children deserve honesty, in my opinion, and your community needs to be informed.*


As usual @alte Dame is right on target. This is what you need to do as far as exposure goes; it's the best advice you are going to get. The only place I disagree with alte Dame is waiting until the divorce is over for community exposure of the OM. It should be done now as a message to both him and your WW that you are not going to take this lightly. Although I do understand her point about waiting.


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## Graywolf2

Lots to Learn said:


> I can say I thought I was going crazy. I lost 30 lbs, sleeping 3 hours a night, etc. A very painful realization after the fact is to know that your spouse can see you disintegrating before your eyes but continues to deny.
> Our issue is we both love each other, dearly. I often think I wish we didnt as it would be so much easier.


*WHAT????? What would she do if she didn’t love you dearly? 
*



Bibi1031 said:


> With regards to your wife justifying her reasons to be driven to other man's arms...take it all with a grain of salt (in other words, don't drink her koolaid LtoL)
> 
> She is rewriting history to justify looking at herself in the mirror and not hating herself. It's better to turn this hatred on you and that's what she did and is still doing.
> 
> She had to demonize you in order to justify doing this terrible thing to you. Poor woman, she is a rotten mess!





Forest said:


> Cheaters can't deal with being a bad, awful person, so they convince themselves (and sometimes others, or you) that YOU are the problem.
> 
> They'll pick fights, find fault constantly, always point out anything you do wrong. This helps them convince themselves they've been wronged. They wouldn't behave this way unless you drove them to it. They are a victim.


The above is very true. You are trying to be fair and objective. (It’s not random that you are the one that didn’t have the affair) 

Cheaters will pick a fact and blow it all out of proportion. Then you, being objective, will admit that it did happen and feel guilty. One WS used the fact that years before her husband drove by the house while she was working in the front yard and didn't wave at her. Maybe he didn't see her.

The reason an affair is so toxic to a marriage is that when the BS does something nice it makes the WS feel guilty. So something that should help a troubled marriage actually damages it. The guilt makes the WS search out a reason why the BS deserves to be cheated on.


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## Graywolf2

Marc878 said:


> This may be a way for her to make herself feel better about the mess she's caused. We're still friends!!!! A true friend is above all trusting and honest. Apparently she is neither. Why lie to yourself and her?


You have kids so you will have to be civil. She will want to be friends to show herself and the world that what she did must not have been that bad after all. 

After the divorce she will love people seeing the two of you and the kids having a great time at a restaurant or baseball game. If you can obviously forgive her so thoroughly, being the injured party, then how can anyone else hold a grudge? You are the one priest that can give her absolution.

Do what is best for you and your kids. Business or friends doesn’t matter, just be aware of at least part of her motivation to be friends.


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## Lostinthought61

Learn to be perfectly honest is your wife had any back bone she would be the one telling the family of her failures....and you should tell her that.


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## Lots to Learn

Graywolf2 said:


> *WHAT????? What would she do if she didn’t love you dearly?
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The above is very true. You are trying to be fair and objective. (It’s not random that you are the one that didn’t have the affair)
> 
> Cheaters will pick a fact and blow it all out of proportion. Then you, being objective, will admit that it did happen and feel guilty. One WS used the fact that years before her husband drove by the house while she was working in the front yard and didn't wave at her. Maybe he didn't see her.
> 
> The reason an affair is so toxic to a marriage is that when the BS does something nice it makes the WS feel guilty. So something that should help a troubled marriage actually damages it. The guilt makes the WS search out a reason why the BS deserves to be cheated on.



To see my own word put back to me like this is shocking. But she does love me I know this. I cant reconcile this point right now. I can say my frustration is at a all time high resulting from having to continue to think about all this. It's truly soul crushing. 

Your observation of my objectivity is uncanny understanding that you actually don't know me. But you are correct and this trait is what makes me successful in my career. I am the consensus builder, I am the one that gets sent to get the deal done, I am the one they send to solve issues that others cannot. I can see from your example how this is being applied in my circumstance. Indeed, your words ring true of many of our discussions over that past 8 weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lots to Learn

Graywolf2 said:


> You have kids so you will have to be civil. She will want to be friends to show herself and the world that what she did must not have been that bad after all.
> 
> After the divorce she will love people seeing the two of you and the kids having a great time at a restaurant or baseball game. If you can obviously forgive her so thoroughly, being the injured party, then how can anyone else hold a grudge? You are the one priest that can give her absolution.
> 
> Do what is best for you and your kids. Business or friends doesn’t matter, just be aware of at least part of her motivation to be friends.




I can envision the senario you describe. Our immediate future and these next steps has me deeply concerned. Hard to believe anything could be a harder climb than the last 2'months. Indeed i thought since my decision to D we could part amicably and I could escape this nightmare. However I am coming to realized that there are still some very difficult discussion and situations to deal with. Knowing her and how she has been when discussing the affair I don't imagine it going well. I guess what is dawning on me is that not only is my marriage done but my life parter will now be dead to me forever and....I am A&B this moment in the back yard on my knees crushed while the kids are watching tv. OMG !!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

Lots to Learn said:


> I am coming to realized that there are still some very difficult discussion and situations to deal with. *Knowing her and how she has been when discussing the affair I don't imagine it going well.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Could you expand oh this?


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## Marc878

I said this earlier but it's worth repeating. 

You need to brace yourself for the long term. Your separation has to be one year. You are only 42 and will have no problem starting over. Shes 44. She is probably going to wake up and take a hard look at her future. OM will probably reconcile with his wife. She will likely be coming after reconciliation hard hoping you will be plan B. 

Be prepared.


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## Bibi1031

Lots to Learn said:


> I can envision the senario you describe. Our immediate future and these next steps has me deeply concerned. Hard to believe anything could be a harder climb than the last 2'months. Indeed i thought since my decision to D we could part amicably and I could escape this nightmare. However I am coming to realized that there are still some very difficult discussion and situations to deal with. Knowing her and how she has been when discussing the affair I don't imagine it going well. I guess what is dawning on me is that not only is my marriage done but my life parter will now be dead to me forever and....I am A&B this moment in the back yard on my knees crushed while the kids are watching tv. OMG !!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


((((Hugs)))) you can unload it all now and cry, scream or hit something. It will bring you much needed relief and you will let it go to a higher power. When you are done, you will find new strength in the truths you visualized and it's up to you to do what is best for YOU and those other two casualties of your WSs selfishness.

She is NOT your friend, she is just the mother of your boys and a ****ty one at that. My XH tried and told everyone we were friends...ha, I filed a restraining order against his friendly a$$. Couldn't even call me on the phone. Everything was strictly emails, and strictly business.


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## Lots to Learn

The Middleman said:


> Could you expand oh this?




I suppose the context was relative to being friends. While it was difficult to arrive at the realization that D was inevitable, it never occurred to me before today that at some level we wouldn't be friends. Like I said earlier she intimated whether we would be in a subtle way 3 times this week. I deflected or disregarded as I held it to be constant but now acknowledge I never explored it in a meaningful way. 

So today I have done so, and I think I have come to realize that I don't think I'll be able to move on while maintaining a friendship. So here again another ****ty causality of this ****ing mess. 

To your question I think in expressing my answer to this question to my wife I would feel compelled to explain the rationale. That being the broken trust and all the other garage relative to be affair. Point being, to date when the affair is discussed she locks up. I can say I know my wife, or thought I did. I honestly think she locks up because she is so ashamed of herself. Again I know she is from the discussions we had early on. The point being that when trying to tell her why we won't be friends I'll be touching on this and she will shut down. Which means she won't get it, which is ****ty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

Lots to Learn said:


> I suppose the context was relative to being friends. While it was difficult to arrive at the realization that D was inevitable, it never occurred to me before today that at some level we wouldn't be friends. Like I said earlier she intimated whether we would be in a subtle way 3 times this week. I deflected or disregarded as I held it to be constant but now acknowledge I never explored it in a meaningful way.
> 
> So today I have done so, and I think I have come to realize that I don't think I'll be able to move on while maintaining a friendship. So here again another ****ty causality of this ****ing mess.
> 
> To your question I think in expressing my answer to this question to my wife I would feel compelled to explain the rationale. That being the broken trust and all the other garage relative to be affair. Point being, to date when the affair is discussed she locks up. I can say I know my wife, or thought I did. I honestly think she locks up because she is so ashamed of herself. Again I know she is from the discussions we had early on. The point being that when trying to tell her why we won't be friends I'll be touching on this and she will shut down. Which means she won't get it, which is ****ty.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She'll get it but if she doesn't that's her problem. You have to think of yourself and your kids. Something she didn't care about when she had the affair with the OM.

In order for you to move on there are certain things you have to remove as much as possible from your life meaning her unless you want it to drag out or be stuck in limbo. 

The 180 is designed for you to heal from this pain and suffering. You will have some contact with her dealing with the kids, separation, etc. and there is no way to avoid that.

However, that's a choice you have to make. It definitely won't be easy. In my opinion the less contact the quicker you can move on with your life. It may sound harsh but it is what it is.


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## aine

Lots to Learn said:


> I suppose the context was relative to being friends. While it was difficult to arrive at the realization that D was inevitable, it never occurred to me before today that at some level we wouldn't be friends. Like I said earlier she intimated whether we would be in a subtle way 3 times this week. I deflected or disregarded as I held it to be constant but now acknowledge I never explored it in a meaningful way.
> 
> So today I have done so, and I think I have come to realize that I don't think I'll be able to move on while maintaining a friendship. So here again another ****ty causality of this ****ing mess.
> 
> To your question I think in expressing my answer to this question to my wife I would feel compelled to explain the rationale. That being the broken trust and all the other garage relative to be affair. Point being, to date when the affair is discussed she locks up. I can say I know my wife, or thought I did. I honestly think she locks up because she is so ashamed of herself. Again I know she is from the discussions we had early on. The point being that when trying to tell her why we won't be friends I'll be touching on this and she will shut down. Which means she won't get it, which is ****ty.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you are going to divorce anyway, why do you want all the details, you know you will not get them.

Tell her , you will never be friends, because your friends would never treat you the way she has and as far as you are concerned you will only allow people in your life who treat you with respect and consideration, so she has missed that boat and doesn't get to have it all. 
She has a nerve! but that is normal for a cheater, they get to live their lives and pretend they haven't done any damage or left wreckage behind, do not aid her in this endeavour.

You can be cordial for the kids sake but conversation only based on kids alone


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## barbados

OP,

IMO, it takes a particularly heinous type of cheater to have sex with their AP in the marital home, and even more heinous to have it in the marital bed where their BS sleeps. 

You have said R is not an option, and I agree that in your case, with a cheating W that would do that, it should never be.

Start a hard 180 now and file for D asap.

Also OP, if you and your WW had been having sex during her A, you need to get tested for STD's asap. and don't think that the affair might not have been longer than you know of to determine if you need to go get tested. Frankly if I were you and had sex with her any time in the past year I would be getting tested.

sorry you are here.


----------



## Dyokemm

Lots to Learn said:


> I suppose the context was relative to being friends. While it was difficult to arrive at the realization that D was inevitable, it never occurred to me before today that at some level we wouldn't be friends. Like I said earlier she intimated whether we would be in a subtle way 3 times this week. I deflected or disregarded as I held it to be constant but now acknowledge I never explored it in a meaningful way.
> 
> So today I have done so, and I think I have come to realize that I don't think I'll be able to move on while maintaining a friendship. So here again another ****ty causality of this ****ing mess.
> 
> To your question I think in expressing my answer to this question to my wife I would feel compelled to explain the rationale. That being the broken trust and all the other garage relative to be affair. Point being, to date when the affair is discussed she locks up. I can say I know my wife, or thought I did. I honestly think she locks up because she is so ashamed of herself. Again I know she is from the discussions we had early on. The point being that when trying to tell her why we won't be friends I'll be touching on this and she will shut down. Which means she won't get it, which is ****ty.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honestly,

Several recent posters have been spot on with this issue.

Whether she 'gets' it on not isn't something you need to concern yourself with.

You have to do what is best for your own recovery and mental health going forward.

If she is hurt by that...oh well...she shouldn't have betrayed you then.

And I agree with previous posters that you should give a brief explanation of the reasons for your D to both of your families, all your close friends, and (age appropriate) your kids.

She is already blameshifting to you for her A....what do you honestly think she will be telling these same people when they ask her about the separation/D and why you two are not working it out?

What makes you think she will suddenly step up and inform these people that she is to blame for the D?

H*ll, she can't even own the A and destruction of the M with YOU.

Just inform these others that she continually lied to you for months about the A, despite your suspicions and attempts to reach her and work on the problems in the M.....and in the end you found her in your own bed with the POSOM.

For you kids, I would leave out those details and just tell them mom had an inappropriate relationship with another man.

Stay silent, and your WW will blame you for everything to others.

Going forward in life with your kids and relatives thinking you are a monster responsible for the destruction of your family will just bring you even further pain.

Make sure she owns what she has done.


----------



## Be smart

First of all you need to expose her Affair.

You keep saying your wife is ashamed of her Affair,but this thing keep going in my head. You two agreed too go to MC and the day after that you found her in your own bad with OM. This is big problem here,because she does not want to work on this marriage. You are Plan B simple as that,someone who will pay the bills.

Separation is another excuse to have sex outside of the marriage.

I dont think your wife deserve second chance and you are still young,only 42 my friend.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Bibi1031 said:


> ((((Hugs)))) you can unload it all now and cry, scream or hit something. It will bring you much needed relief and you will let it go to a higher power. When you are done, you will find new strength in the truths you visualized and it's up to you to do what is best for YOU and those other two casualties of your WSs selfishness.
> 
> She is NOT your friend, she is just the mother of your boys and a ****ty one at that. My XH tried and told everyone we were friends...ha, I filed a restraining order against his friendly a$$. Couldn't even call me on the phone. Everything was strictly emails, and strictly business.


Thanks Bibi. It was a rough night, not my finest moment there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lots to Learn

aine said:


> If you are going to divorce anyway, why do you want all the details, you know you will not get them.
> 
> Tell her , you will never be friends, because your friends would never treat you the way she has and as far as you are concerned you will only allow people in your life who treat you with respect and consideration, so she has missed that boat and doesn't get to have it all.
> She has a nerve! but that is normal for a cheater, they get to live their lives and pretend they haven't done any damage or left wreckage behind, do not aid her in this endeavour.
> 
> You can be cordial for the kids sake but conversation only based on kids alone


I hear you. To be clear I don't need anymore details. I know everything. The rest of this I acknowledge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lots to Learn

Be smart said:


> First of all you need to expose her Affair.
> 
> You keep saying your wife is ashamed of her Affair,but this thing keep going in my head. You two agreed too go to MC and the day after that you found her in your own bad with OM. This is big problem here,because she does not want to work on this marriage. You are Plan B simple as that,someone who will pay the bills.
> 
> Separation is another excuse to have sex outside of the marriage.
> 
> I dont think your wife deserve second chance and you are still young,only 42 my friend.


Thank you. To be clear there is no Plan B as there is no R. In Canada you are required to legally separate for a year before D. So when I refer to separation I mean we are on the legal path to D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Forest

Just to touch on what was mentioned above:

There are often times when a faithful spouse -thinking with logic or reason- will conclude that showing the cheater what a good person they are will open the cheater's eyes, and they'll realize the horrible mistake they are making. This is often called trying to "nice" them back. It never works. It may assure the cheater that she/he does always have a "plan b" to return to, and actually make the affair seem more manageable. 

Unfortunately, many have seen firsthand how this "nice" stuff will backfire. Particularly in the faithful husband-cheating wife situation. Women view this behavior as weak, and any sign of weakness in a man is the ultimate turn-off, wet blanket, momma's boy....No fun. No adventure. No bad-boy excitement there.

Just as lying is a part of the makeup of cheaters, reason is their anti-matter. The is no room for reason alongside infidelity.


----------



## convert

Lots to Learn said:


> Good questions, I didn't mention any of this. He is a contractor who we have known for some time. He has been doing projects for us and friends for some time. This past spring he did a major renovation at our house. In addition my wife had used him in the past for her clients. This is where their EA and subsequent PA started. They bonded through this process. He is married with a 8 yr old son.
> 
> His wife was well....shattered. The affair started in April of this year and I discovered it August 16.


I hope you don't use him as a contractor with your company anymore.
Just me but I would let others know that might use his services.


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## Chaparral

The reason reconciliation failed is because you rugswept the affair. You allowed her to avoid the consequences of the affair and that cost you her respect. You failed to expose the affair and she is hiding behind your fear.

Though you may have been reading here, you missed the most important advice and failed to act appropriately.

The upside is that divorce is what she earned and deserves.

Get individual counseling for you and your kids. At this point what you are doing is tantamount to lying to your kids. At least you should be honest with them. They may not know it yet but both of you are deceiving them.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Chaparral said:


> The reason reconciliation failed is because you rugswept the affair. You allowed her to avoid the consequences of the affair and that cost you her respect. You failed to expose the affair and she is hiding behind your fear.
> 
> Though you may have been reading here, you missed the most important advice and failed to act appropriately.
> 
> The upside is that divorce is what she earned and deserves.
> 
> Get individual counseling for you and your kids. At this point what you are doing is tantamount to lying to your kids. At least you should be honest with them. They may not know it yet but both of you are deceiving them.


Thanks for the 2x4. Truth be told we didnt actually dedicate ourselves to Reconcile per se. Since D-Day, based on what I read her we decided to pause and collect ourselves. I learned from here to never make such a life changing decision when you are so clouded by emotion. So i guess we have been doing that all the while discussing whether to R or D. For me personally I found this LIMBO stage very very difficult. Not having a direction or a path is beyond frustrating. It does not allow you to reconcile everything, or at least start to.


----------



## Dyokemm

Lots to Learn said:


> Thanks for the 2x4. Truth be told we didnt actually dedicate ourselves to Reconcile per se. Since D-Day, based on what I read her we decided to pause and collect ourselves. I learned from here to never make such a life changing decision when you are so clouded by emotion. So i guess we have been doing that all the while discussing whether to R or D. For me personally I found this LIMBO stage very very difficult. Not having a direction or a path is beyond frustrating. It does not allow you to reconcile everything, or at least start to.


No one could criticize your decision to take time before making a decision on R or D.

For one thing, that is a very personal choice that only the BS can make for themselves.

And, everyone here will understand why you waited til the emotional turmoil cleared some before making a decision....most posters here had a ticket on the same rollercoaster and understand your reasoning completely.

However, what I think Chap was referring to here was the fact that you did not seem to pick up from your reading here that the first thing you should have done, if you wanted any chance of actually wanting to R with your WW, was exposed her A to everyone and made her start to feel the full ramifications of her crappy choices.

By not exposing, you have allowed her to easily continue in the A mindset, even if the A itself is over.....this is why she still doesn't get what she did to the M and continues to blameshift to you, showing little real remorse for her choices.

If she had to face friends and family who knew that she had an A with this POS, and actually brought him into her own family's home....well that disapproval and anger might have actually awoken her to the damage she had done and the fact her family life, as well as her reputation, were now hanging by a thread.

In essence, she is still expecting to sail off into her future with her reputation intact, blaming you for the D and collapse of the M.....because you have failed to expose her and she will shift the blame to your shoulders with all friends and family.

Stop protecting her, and damaging yourself and your own reputation at the same time.

Expose her A.


----------



## Marc878

It sounds like from the way this happened and the aftermath she is trying to write it her way.

So far it's sounds as if it's working. 

Are you ok with this scenario?

I think it's time you man up and take charge. She's rubbed your nose in it enough.

Unless I'm reading it wrong. She knows you and your weaknesses. She will use them to her full advantage. Why not throw her a curveball?


----------



## Marc878

How are you doing LtL?


----------



## happyman64

LtoL

You are thinking. You are feeling.

You are coming to your own conclusions.



> Like I said earlier my struggle now is reconciling the fact that this will likely also be the end of our friendship and it hurts.


And now you realize that your best friend will no longer be your friend at all. How sad when you think of all the good times and bad times you have been through.

Together.

But it is not the affair that she had but more the lies. The trickle truth. The dragging out of her selfish decisions while you get tortured mentally and physically.

Just realize that is when she no longer was your friend.

True friends do not torture friends that they say they love.....

And her inability to even discuss this with you should show you just how lost she truly is. She brought all if this hurt on herself, you, her family for no gain whatsoever.

Expose her affair. The separation is not enough. I agree you need to throw her a curve ball. If you want to wait until the separation agreement is signed I understand that.

Sure she will get upset that you told your families of her affair and damaging trickle truth.

The reason not to do it is revenge.

The reason to do it is to get it out there so it can dealt with. So both of your families can support your family as you go through this transition.

I think exposure in the long run will help your wife deal with her issues. 

If she was truly remorseful she would have gone to both of your families and explained why you are separating/divorcing.

Consider "exposure" the last act of kindness that you will be showing her.

HM


----------



## Chaparral

I didn't see where you wrote about your wife's reaction to your decision to divorce. How did she take it. I get the feeling she doesn't really care that much.

That makes me very suspicious of her next move.


----------



## JohnA

Friendship vs Allie.

There is a Hugh difference. You can be allied with the WS when it comes to the kids, but never friends. The French are strong allies of the united states, but will not hesitate to put their own self interest above the united states in every other way. What you need to do is very "French"

You need to expose to family and those who do business with the OM. You are assuming this is a one time thing with him. You ar setting up your male friends to experience what you have.

Your wife has betrayed her clients by not disclosing her reationship with him. You do not know if he took advantage of her clients. This is a situation that where there is smoke there is fire.


----------



## Lots to Learn

happyman64 said:


> LtoL
> 
> You are thinking. You are feeling.
> 
> You are coming to your own conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> And now you realize that your best friend will no longer be your friend at all. How sad when you think of all the good times and bad times you have been through.
> 
> Together.
> 
> But it is not the affair that she had but more the lies. The trickle truth. The dragging out of her selfish decisions while you get tortured mentally and physically.
> 
> Just realize that is when she no longer was your friend.
> 
> True friends do not torture friends that they say they love.....
> 
> And her inability to even discuss this with you should show you just how lost she truly is. She brought all if this hurt on herself, you, her family for no gain whatsoever.
> 
> Expose her affair. The separation is not enough. I agree you need to throw her a curve ball. If you want to wait until the separation agreement is signed I understand that.
> 
> Sure she will get upset that you told your families of her affair and damaging trickle truth.
> 
> The reason not to do it is revenge.
> 
> The reason to do it is to get it out there so it can dealt with. So both of your families can support your family as you go through this transition.
> 
> I think exposure in the long run will help your wife deal with her issues.
> 
> If she was truly remorseful she would have gone to both of your families and explained why you are separating/divorcing.
> 
> Consider "exposure" the last act of kindness that you will be showing her.
> 
> HM


Thanks HM, and others. HM the beginning of your post is pretty much where I am dwelling presently. I have taken a small break from posting on the advise of someone from this forum. 

I'm....ok at the present moment. As you all know, so much to process, so much on the mind. I'm trying to remember what if felt like not to have the majority of my thoughts so tied up with such emotional things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carmen ohio

Lots to Learn said:


> . . . I took a respectful approach considering having nothing concrete. The 1000 text in a month, the credit card bills, the withdrawals from the bank. When compared to text I was having from those days it was all wrong. I approached her with no anger with all of this and essentially said look at this, tell me whats going on. If there is something going on lets talk about it, it is ok. I meant it, hell if you want out just say so. But no just lies, and gaslighting. I will say this was the most painful part. I was coming apart knowing but not knowing. Like I said I was sleeping 3 hours a night, I lost 30lbs, etc . . .





Lots to Learn said:


> . . . DD for me was discovering them in our own home, in our bed on our first day of MC . . .





Lots to Learn said:


> . . . My struggle now is letting go of any friendship . . .





Lots to Learn said:


> . . . Like I said earlier my struggle now is reconciling the fact that this will likely also be the end of our friendship and it hurts.





Lots to Learn said:


> . . . I guess what is dawning on me is that not only is my marriage done but my life parter will now be dead to me forever and....I am A&B this moment in the back yard on my knees crushed while the kids are watching tv. OMG !!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Lots to Learn said:


> . . . While it was difficult to arrive at the realization that D was inevitable, it never occurred to me before today that at some level we wouldn't be friends . . .


OP,

I am very sorry for what your cheating wife has done to you and your family, but what really makes me cringe is how you have reacted to her adultery.

The woman heartlessly destroys your health while she lies to and cheats on you, and then scr*ws her lover in your marriage bed on the day you are to start MC, and what most troubles you is that you are losing her as a friend. Frankly, I don't thing I've ever read a more pathetic story on TAM/CWI.

For your children's sake, I hope you find your _cojones_ before this is all over.


----------



## Marc878

Friendship = loyalty, trust and honesty. Maybe she never was?

Revenge/exposure = relief. Let everyone else share in the pain. 

You'll figure out what works for you. 

Good luck


----------



## tech-novelist

Lots to Learn said:


> All great thoughts I thank you all. Do you see value in having this discussion just like you say above in the context of any friendship moving fwd? She has telegraphed this question a few times this week, and I would like to say why we cant at this point and the reasons why. Or would you just go dark on it?


Don't tell her anything that you don't have to. She is not your ally; she is your enemy.

Also, if she is still in the affair fog, she will probably be happy to get the divorce over with so she will be free to bang the OM or do whatever other crazy things she wants to do. Don't wake her up to reality before you get out of the marriage; this may be your only chance to get out with a reasonably fair deal.


----------



## Lots to Learn

carmen ohio said:


> OP,
> 
> I am very sorry for what your cheating wife has done to you and your family, but what really makes me cringe is how you have reacted to her adultery.
> 
> The woman heartlessly destroys your health while she lies to and cheats on you, and then scr*ws her lover in your marriage bed on the day you are to start MC, and what most troubles you is that you are losing her as a friend. Frankly, I don't thing I've ever read a more pathetic story on TAM/CWI.
> 
> For your children's sake, I hope you find your _cojones_ before this is all over.


This hits home. Thank you for the 2x4. This is the second time someone has illustrated it like this . That said, after the first 2x4 like this I could see what I was saying regurgitated back to me and I didnt like it. 

I get it now, and can offer no reasonable explanation why I had those feelings. But I did.

I suppose this is one ofmthe benifits to this forum. It provides some great perspective in a very emotional and confusing time.


----------



## Bibi1031

happyman64 said:


> LtoL
> 
> You are thinking. You are feeling.
> 
> You are coming to your own conclusions.


This is positive and moving forward LtoLearn.

Congratulations on the baby steps.

:yay::yay::yay::yay:

Bibi


----------



## Hardtohandle

She does *NOT LOVE YOU*

Paint a slight picture of her being a cheating kunt to someone and THEN see her TRUE fvcking colors.. 

Then you will see the piece of sh!t she will paint you to be.. 

Your problem is you're trying to play all Zen with this.. All polite and correct.. 

How many times did she fvck this guy in your bed ? You don't know.. You think she will tell you ? You think she will be honest.. 

You already said to her several times come clean and she fvcking lied to you.. BUT NOW she is being honest ? Because you caught her with some d!ck in her in your bed ? 

NO FVCKING WAY.

Trust me this will all pass with her and she will once again show you the piece of sh!t she can really be.. 

Be utterly honest and truthful to someone close to her.. Let this person relay back the story and see what comes out.. Bait her.. I promise you will be shocked to what she has to say about you.. 

I went through what you are saying about the kids.. You know what.. Life isn't perfect.. Just because my friend takes his kids to scouts.. Movies.. Baseball games and karate class IT DOESN'T make me a bad dad because my son wants to be on his computer and NOT DO those things.. My boy is a A/B grade student and is respectful and honest.. That is all I give a sh!t about.. My friend had to talk to the principal 2x already about his son and some "issues" he had with a student and the school bus driver.. Teachers are asking me if my son could talk a bit more in class... 


So that being said.. Don't be that d!ck that keeps beating yourself up.. 

Tell her you want custody.. Lets see how cool she takes it.. 

You best wake the fvck up a bit.. Godfather *"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"*

You trying to be all kumbaya with her is gonna end up kicking you in face.. Wait till you find out she is still seeing this other man all this time.. 

My GF was all great friends with her husband for 3 years while they were apart but not separated or divorced.. The minute she started talking about divorce and they went to court.. The true colors came out with him.. He went from paying 500 a week to 380 a week and is looking to pay less and not help out with anything else.. 

So all that we have a good relationship "for the kids" bullsh!t suddenly goes out the window.. 

My ex played out the affair in front of my kids.. My 12 year old at the time ( now 15 ) understood exactly what was going on in the end near the age of 13.. He wasn't happy with his mom and the other man, especially with the other man.. 

All I am asking and saying is don't continue thinking it's all cool and then wonder WTF happen when her family thinks of you as some piece of garbage. 

Please keep your guard up.. Expect the worst and hope for the best.. 

I'm telling you as was already stated.. Her fvcking this guy in your home was NOT her thinking about you and her kids.. It's the utter opposite..


----------



## LongWalk

Have you followed Gridcom's thread? He is some respects in a situation similar to yours. Self blame for his wife's detachment spun round in his head and has him in limbo.

You might be able to help him.

Your wife has a terrible mess due to circumstances of Dday. Such reckless behavior on her part suggests that she has lost control, for having an affair in the marital home makes everything worse. What's more she knew you were suspicious and yet she carried on as if she was a cartoon character who could make her fornication invisible by way of a mental force field.

Friendship with super heroes (or villains) is futile because they are incapable of it. Your wife is like Lex Luther clutching a piece of kryptonite. 

Regarding the sordid details of the affair. You do not need them. She, however, needs to tell you much more so that she and begin to extricate herself from the lies. She could benefit by writing a timeline. But the humiliation seems to be too much. Perhaps she is still savoring what she had with him and the idea of destroying that sweet memory seems to leave her with nothing. She can at least say there was something positive in the affair instead of just destruction.

For Gridcom, his 10-year-old daughter is a concern. The poor girl is praying for her parents to reconcile.


----------



## Marc878

SHE'LL BE BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Harden, detach and prepare.


----------



## carmen ohio

Lots to Learn said:


> This hits home. Thank you for the 2x4. This is the second time someone has illustrated it like this . That said, after the first 2x4 like this I could see what I was saying regurgitated back to me and I didnt like it.
> 
> I get it now, and can offer no reasonable explanation why I had those feelings. But I did.
> 
> I suppose this is one ofmthe benifits to this forum. It provides some great perspective in *a very emotional and confusing time.*


I still don't think you quite get it, LtL.

Yes, this is an emotional time. Unfortunately, you have the wrong emotions. Instead of being saddened by the end of your marriage, you should be happy that you found out what sort of person you are married to while you are still young enough to find someone worthy of your affections.

It is not, however, all that confusing. Your wife is a lying, cheating sl*t who doesn't give a rat's ass about you but is a good actor (good enough to fool you, anyway). The solutions is simple: divorce her as soon as possible and have nothing more to do with her save what is necessary to finish raising your children.

One day you understand this and, when you do, you will be on your way to recovery and a better life.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Lots to Learn said:


> -Value of exposure now.


Tremendous. Do it. YOU need the emotional support from people who have the details about what happened so they can give effective understanding. Tell everyone. Break down sobbing in front of your family. Tell your work colleagues that you're going through a difficult divorce situation and may not pull your weight the way they are used to for a while. Tell her family, so they know what kind of relative they have, because you can be guaranteed she's not telling them the truth ("Oh we just grew apart"). And telling your mutual friends is the only way to find out which of them are truly your friends deep down, and which are only surface friends.



Lots to Learn said:


> - The struggle of 180 which entails any friendship /relationship other than kids going fwd.


You don't actually need to talk to your ex much to coparent the children. Do all exchanges through a school or daycare. Use an online service to coordinate things, or communicate only through email - and always sit on responses for a few hours before sending them to avoid speaking in anger. Basically treat her on a professional level, with common courtesy. Don't share anything personal.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Lots to Learn said:


> All great thoughts I thank you all. Do you see value in having this discussion just like you say above in the context of any friendship moving fwd? She has telegraphed this question a few times this week, and I would like to say why we cant at this point and the reasons why. Or would you just go dark on it?


You're saying she's doing the "let's be friends" thing? No. Just no. Who wants to be friends with someone capable of doing this to their spouse? Just tell her you're not interested in friendship with her because you prefer to be friends with people who have integrity.

She wants to stay friends because it makes her look good, and helps her feel that what she did isn't so bad. After all, if you're still friends after divorce, obviously her affair was only a small hiccup in the big picture of your relationship.

Though you might want to pretend to be friendly until you have a separation agreement signed, as it could smooth that process.


----------



## happyman64

LtoL

There is nothing wrong with taking a break from TAM to collect your thoughts and absorb all the advice.

I have one question for you.

Did you go home because you knew they would both be there and you finally wanted to catch them?

HM


----------



## eastsouth2000

your wife continued to lie after the evidence was discovered and never told the truth.
that's how far she is with detaching from you.
to note that even the most cruel of WW, break upon the release of evidence like the phone bills. that suggest already an emotional affair.
and in the end you caught them in your house.

she is sad and emotional because she got caught.

about exposure:
please expose to everyone now. you can expose this with causing so much damage. by revealing both sides of the aisle.
or you could go nuclear and just tell about her affair.

best to tell her family. 
why you say? being on the bad side of FOO(family of origin). 
can be detrimental to the relationship in the future with your children.
inform her family as soon as possible

i have seen multiple cases where the BS never told FOO.
and the consequences where dire, FOO turned the children against the BS.

and usually when FOO found out the truth. they blame BS for not telling them.

telling the FOO about WW affair wont make them hate their daughter.
but will make them understand your situation.

and they may help convince WW if she is not negotiating fairly in the divorce.

many cases where FOO where informed. BS were included in inheritance/will. 
specially splitting it between WW and Children.


----------



## ThePheonix

My advise LTL is that instead of dialoging with her about, "lets be friends" just derail it with, "lets see how it goes". In the real world once ya'll are divorced and involved with others, the need for each others company will disappear and you'll emotionally go your separate ways and, because of the kids, become little more than polite to each other.


----------



## Lots to Learn

ThePheonix said:


> My advise LTL is that instead of dialoging with her about, "lets be friends" just derail it with, "lets see how it goes". In the real world once ya'll are divorced and involved with others, the need for each others company will disappear and you'll emotionally go your separate ways and, because of the kids, become little more than polite to each other.



This is how imagine the reality of it to be honest.


----------



## OldWolf57

LTL, have you decided to go expose ?
Look again at your DD.
That more than anything else shows how much regard she gives you.
IT was the day AFTER deciding to seek MC.

That tells you she will throw you under to keep her rep intact.
Right now she is playing nice, but I will bet, YOU will be the blame once she feels she has a good settlement signed.
Until you realize this, you still are not truly getting it.

On the other hand, you also have the proof for afterwards when she does start to blame you.
So don't let what she may say concern you.

Get the best agreement you can, but be prepared to expose as soon as you hear of her blaming you.

You say you've done extensive reading here, so you know the script.
You ALREADY know why exposing will be needed.
DD !! After agreeing the THE NIGHT BEFORE to seek MC.


----------



## OldWolf57

A little why I think this way.

You never wrote, she said this was a GOODBYE get together !!!
So it was biz as usual for her to just string you along.
Watch you lose even more pounds, and twist emotionally.

Now ask yourself,, do you have friends that treat you this way.
Bet you don't.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Hi all,

No strength to update but I will. I have been doing "ok" whatever that is these days. However the last two have been tough and today I feel like I am coming apart. Wife is away for a few days I am at home and iwith the kids. 

I am having what is likely panic attacks. I'm triggering bad and no idea what to do. Every hour or two it's hitting me and I have to leave the house. Just become complete overcome with despair! Full on breakdowns, no control. Feeling helpless. While I have run the gamut on feelings over last 2 months this feels like DDay feelings every 2 hours. 

Advice on coping? It's really killing me here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878

See a doctor. Now. You must take care of yourself first and foremost.

If you aren't sleeping get some sleeping aids. It's important you eat and sleep.

Find something mindless to keep yourself occupied, do something interactive with the kids,yard work, go for walks, etc.

Have you been able to find a good trusting confidant. It's gonna be tough to get through this on your own.


----------



## the guy

I had a mantra ...every time dark thoughts entered my head I forced them out by telling my self "I deserve good things".

I would repeat these word a million times a day.

You are in battle...do not let those dark thoughts win....you deserve good things..you can be stronger so stop letting the negetivity of your old ladies bull shyt get the better of you.


----------



## Marc878

There's no way to get through this without being distraught. You aren't a machine. You are human.

But These days will pass. The sun will come up every morning.

Get engaged with your kids. They love to play games. You can't concentrate on two things at the same time. It will get your mind off it. The kids will enjoy spending time with you. Let them win😉


----------



## LongWalk

Is it possible that exposing the reason for divorce, including the circumstances Dday, will shift some of the emotional burden that you are bearing away from you and to your WW, who should properly be bearing it.

If she had her sh^t half way together, she would have approached your families both yours and hers and told the that D was coming and why. She is letting this slide because she lacks courage and integrity.

The reason you are divorcing instead of reconciling or sitting limbo is in no small part her choice. If she were proactive in cleaning up the mess, you would be able to discuss friendship in D or reconciliation.

Right now she continues to betray you by not taking responsibility.

Several posters have suggested that she may gas light, blame shift, slander and malign you. Sometime cheaters can get away with disinformation campaigns. In your case, I think you only have to sent out the message that HappyMan outlined many pages ago.



> Dear FIL, SIL, MIL, BIL, Mom, Dad, etc.
> 
> With heavy heart I am writing to tell you that WW are divorcing.
> She had an extended extra martial relationship with XXX, a contractor whom we first knew as a business partner. After discovering him and WW in our marital bed two months ago, I have decided that divorce is the only course of action open to us.
> 
> I hope that you can support the four of us in this difficult time.
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> 
> SL


----------



## JohnA

You can only gain strength from exposer. Let the prople that love you shelter you and help you. They will surprise you!! People need 

Recognize that since you are emtional devastated you need a strong lawyer. Set clear goals with them and insist that any and all negoations though them. Do not negogate one on one with your wife ever. 180 on this subject.
Get rid of any and all preconsive notions of what a divorce results in,

Tell the lawyer

You want the family home. You buy her out, or the house is sold. 

You want primary custody. You are every bit if not better and more important of the parent. CHRIST SHE BROUGHT THIS ******* INTO YOUR'S ABD YOUR'S CHILDREN HOME !!!!

You want child support. 

When ever she says that is not fair, you say "you brought him into our bed, how are you going to make this right"? 

Hide behind the lawyer and friends till you reach emotional balance. Another poster mentioned zen. Zen is a warrior's mindset.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Thank you all. Its been a day while there has been so many ****ty days I haven't had a day like today where it rolls in like the tide but every 2 hkurs and there is nkthing I can do!! Full frontal attack, all emotion, as a person I cant say I never knew there was anythung like that. Im talking both hands on face in complete disbelief, after all this time!! So powerful. I always knew I was emotional, it works for me in most facets of my life, but geezus!! Like I said today it rolls in and rolls out. Thank god it wasnt a work day.

I did level off by getting the kids with me in the back yard. Funny... for those who have been following along my issue was not emotionqlly connecting to the kids when they were young. Well not properly I supose..I learned what many already know but I didnt is that you can get strength from the kids.This may seem foolish to many of you, but I didnt know..You see I learned this only by bei g vulnerable with them..in 14 years I never had been, and as a result of not being vulnerable (a trait I learneed from my father) I never knew that the children can actually provide strength. Just putting my hand on my sons leg in the car, simple ****, I didnt know.

As always you guys/gals are right. The issue is I have been carrying this load to long alone. In my professional life this is my job. Im the leader, peoplenco e to me with the issues they are not able to resolve on their own.. But this...my god!! Im not sure how much longer I can sit in limbo and hold this up.. it is killing my soul. I need to keep some of what makes me good for me and my kids before its all detroted by this..

I just cant understand how anyone could do such a destructive 4hing to any living thing, let alone a spouse or family.. it really eats me up.. its so cruel. I apologize for grammer and spelling, im just a friggin mess.


----------



## Marc878

It happens. You'll be surprised at how much support you'll get if you ever let what happened out.

She's selfish and her betrayal meant nothing to her. She's feeling guilty only because she was caught. Nothing more. 

It sounds like you feel like you have everything on your back. She did this 100%. No one deserves to witness what you went through.

If you haven't it's time to expose her. Family, friends, kids, etc. Let her feel some of the heat for her actions.

You may not understand yet but the relief of getting this off your chest will help. Believe me they won't be looking at you.

Your kids will surprise you. They know somethings up and can probably help more than you know.


----------



## Marc878

The TRUTH has a way of fixing things.


----------



## Bibi1031

Lots to Learn said:


> as a person I cant say I never knew there was anythung like that. Im talking both hands on face in complete disbelief, after all this time!! So powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> Reality hits hard and it's mind boggling indeed.
> 
> (((Hugs))))
> 
> Boy, does this bring back painful memories. TIME is your ally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .I learned what many already know but I didnt is that you can get strength from the kids. I never knew that the children can actually provide strength.
> 
> *My kids were the fuel that kept me going when I couldn't. The pain is unbearable at times that you may have to take it an hour at a time. *
> 
> 
> I need to keep some of what makes me good for me and my kids before its all detroted by this..
> 
> 
> *You need support. You need meds. These two are vital to keep your sanity. Please seek help. Your kids need one sane and semi healthy parent. You need to do this for you, but mostly for your boys!*
> 
> I just cant understand how anyone could do such a destructive 4hing to any living thing, let alone a spouse or family.. it really eats me up.. its so cruel.
> 
> *It is and there is no excuse not to hold them accountable for such destruction. She was very selfish and weak. She threw her vows, morals, mother responsibilities out the window and she must be held accountable for her lack of restraint. If she didn't love you, she should have said something instead of taking the coward's way out. *




She is Selfish, Irresponsible, self serving, immoral, cowardly, and most of all WEAK!

Take care of YOU and your boys. She can stay out on the curb together with the garbage where she belongs now.

Bibi


----------



## alte Dame

For me, my children were always a sustaining force. They were the one thing that kept me from throwing in the towel so many times. I simply couldn't drop the ball. For them. I owed them my best, whatever that was at the time.

Yes, they are sustaining, but you are sustaining to them. There is unconditional love that flows in both directions, and this is the most valuable thing in the world, in my opinion.

As someone suggested, please see your doctor for the panic. Some medications work well for that. When I battled it, I found that exercise, no alcohol, a good diet, and....classical music (!) helped a lot. Breathing into a paper bag in the midst of an attack can also help to get your body back to a state of equilibrium.

Are you moving ahead with the D? How is she acting now?


----------



## Lots to Learn

Hi all,

A quick update. I brought it tona head tonight, and I can say while im sad that our 15 year relationship is over I am somewhat relieved. I dont have to concern myself anymore with what may or may not be happening with her. Clearly I will always care formher wellbeing as she is the mother of my children. That said letting go feels....good!!

Amazing the weight that is off of me, I just wish I arrived here earlier.Tonight the kids were at their Nanas so we had the whole night to cook, enjoy wine and talk. I had told her yesterday that by the end ofmthe weekend we werr going to **** ormget off of the pot.

Anyways great talk which ended with us seperating/divorce. It was a exit affair. She finally opened up which is all I ever wanted. She has deep regret formwhat she did, she has never expressed it like she did tonight. It was a big milestone for me. It was a exit affair to be sure. We walked through our entire marriage recounting the good and the bad. We both understand much better now, but agree we sre done as a couple.

Thevgood news is I already haveva offer on a new house which I will take possesion of in November. I am truley looking fwd to starting a new life there with the kids.

Illmend this post with howbthis thread started. Thanks to you all! This public forum has been a real anchor for me, and imk ow it ismfor many others. I thank you formtakingnthentime out of your lives to help complete strangers in need


----------



## JohnA

No, I don't think you are getting it yet. First the reason she gave you about not being a good dad is @&@[email protected]&@&. 

Second what is the custody anything less then 50/50 is a deal breaker. Yea it sucks she gets 50 percent of the assets. What if any spousal support. Do not let this person profit from her adultery.


----------



## Lots to Learn

JohnA said:


> No, I don't think you are getting it yet. First the reason she gave you about not being a good dad is @&@[email protected]&@&.
> 
> Second what is the custody anything less then 50/50 is a deal breaker. Yea it sucks she gets 50 percent of the assets. What if any spousal support. Do not let this person profit from her adultery.



John,


Agreed, not being a good dad was BS. We went through all that tonight. Clearly just fog talk. Yes everything is 50/50. We both do well in our worknso no balancing tbere, and 50/50 for the kids. It will be hard not seeing the kids everyday to be sure.

Like I said I am glad its over just wished we got here earlier. Limbo is hell on earth.


----------



## Marc878

Good. 

You need to move on 100%. Now you can.

It's probably a good idea to limit contact except for dealing with the kids. It'll help you move on quicker.

No matter what, the way she ended it was low class and doesn't say much for her. There are much better women out there. I hope you land a good one if that's what you want.

This would be a great time to connect with your kids.


----------



## happyman64

Sorry to hear your marriage is over.

Glad to hear you got the answers to your questions.

And Marc is right. The way your wife ended the marriage was crappy.

People that care for each other or at least respect each other let alone love each other do not do that.

People that don't respect themselves do those hurtful actions.

Remember that.

Now focus on you, your new house and creating a stable environment for the kids.

Your Stbx has to fix her own issues.

HM


----------



## MattMatt

Lots to Learn said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A quick update. I brought it tona head tonight, and I can say while im sad that our 15 year relationship is over I am somewhat relieved. I dont have to concern myself anymore with what may or may not be happening with her. Clearly I will always care formher wellbeing as she is the mother of my children. That said letting go feels....good!!
> 
> Amazing the weight that is off of me, I just wish I arrived here earlier.Tonight the kids were at their Nanas so we had the whole night to cook, enjoy wine and talk. I had told her yesterday that by the end ofmthe weekend we werr going to **** ormget off of the pot.
> 
> Anyways great talk which ended with us seperating/divorce. It was a exit affair. She finally opened up which is all I ever wanted. She has deep regret formwhat she did, she has never expressed it like she did tonight. It was a big milestone for me. It was a exit affair to be sure. We walked through our entire marriage recounting the good and the bad. We both understand much better now, but agree we sre done as a couple.
> 
> Thevgood news is I already haveva offer on a new house which I will take possesion of in November. I am truley looking fwd to starting a new life there with the kids.
> 
> Illmend this post with howbthis thread started. Thanks to you all! This public forum has been a real anchor for me, and imk ow it ismfor many others. I thank you formtakingnthentime out of your lives to help complete strangers in need


An exit affair, hah?

So she fully intended for the father of her children to find her having sex with her lover in the marital bed?

Oh, your ex-wife-to-be is pure class. _/sarcasm mode off/_


----------



## Lots to Learn

MattMatt said:


> An exit affair, hah?
> 
> So she fully intended for the father of her children to find her having sex with her lover in the marital bed?
> 
> Oh, your ex-wife-to-be is pure class. _/sarcasm mode off/_


Matt, no she never intended to get caught. Just **** luck on my part. 

So I take possession of the new house on November 16th. We will be here at the house together until then. We haven't told the kids yet and I have to say I am dreading this!

Looking for opinions here. Any sense in having any discussion of the past or anything or should I just be switching it all off?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

Lots to Learn said:


> Matt, no she never intended to get caught. Just **** luck on my part.
> 
> So I take possession of the new house on November 16th. We will be here at the house together until then. We haven't told the kids yet and I have to say I am dreading this!
> 
> Looking for opinions here. *Any sense in having any discussion of the past or anything* or should I just be switching it all off?


What would be the point?


----------



## Lostinthought61

when you do tell the kids she should owe up that she had a big hand in destroying the marriage...is the OM out of the picture completely ?


----------



## Lots to Learn

Xenote said:


> when you do tell the kids she should owe up that she had a big hand in destroying the marriage...is the OM out of the picture completely ?


I have been debating whether the kids should know or not. There is defiantly opposing views on this. Right now I'd say no. That said if it ever came up now or in the future with them I would not lie. 

As for the AP, I have no idea. She says yes but of course I don't believe a word she says on the subject.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Lots to Learn said:


> Matt, no she never intended to get caught. Just **** luck on my part.
> 
> So I take possession of the new house on November 16th. We will be here at the house together until then. We haven't told the kids yet and I have to say I am dreading this!
> 
> Looking for opinions here. Any sense in having any discussion of the past or anything or should I just be switching it all off?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We had a woman on TAM who was 'accidentally' found in bed with her lover.

Eventually on TAM she admitted that the 'accidental' discovery and that she intended for her husband to find them so that he would be unable to forgive her and thus divorce her.

Apparently she'd overlooked one fact. She'd thought he would be angry, but he was devastated by what he saw.


----------



## Marc878

I'd let her tell the kids. 

She should own this. Whether you choose to disclose the whole affair or not.

For me I'd distance myself as much as possible from her. It'll help you move on quicker and you just don't need that history in your life. You deserved better.

And there are better women out there.

I hope for your speedy recovery and good future.


----------



## GusPolinski

Lots to Learn said:


> I have been debating whether the kids should know or not. There is defiantly opposing views on this. Right now I'd say no. That said if it ever came up now or in the future with them I would not lie.


Eh... depends on how old they are. Either way, there are age-appropriate ways to discuss such things w/ young children.



Lots to Learn said:


> As for the AP, I have no idea. She says yes but of course I don't believe a word she says on the subject.


She's lying. If OM were out of the picture, she likely wouldn't be quite so ready to leave the marriage.

It's been a while since I read through the earlier pages of this thread... does OM have a wife or girlfriend? If so, has the affair been exposed to her?


----------



## Hardtohandle

Anything you buy while still married is considered marital property.. I would speak to a lawyer before buying anything while still married to your STBXW..


----------



## snerg

Lots to Learn said:


> Anyways great talk which ended with us seperating/divorce. It was a exit affair. She finally opened up which is all I ever wanted. She has deep regret formwhat she did, she has never expressed it like she did tonight. It was a big milestone for me. It was a exit affair to be sure. We walked through our entire marriage recounting the good and the bad. We both understand much better now, but agree we sre done as a couple.
> 
> 
> Matt, no she never intended to get caught. Just **** luck on my part.


Good that you are going for the divorce.

I will point out the above to you.

You need to let this stew on the back burner for a while.

Dude. She had an exit affair. An exit affair is to make sure she makes you so angry, you burn any bridges of hope of reconciling.

She made sure that you would catch her in the bed you two share.
No matter what she tells you, she was betting that you would catch her sooner or later.

That's a special kind cruel.

She has some deep seated hatred toward you.

She did something on a psychological level to see if she could break you.

You think about that and her raising your kids.

You take that with you when you get working with your lawyer. Don't you ever cave to make it easier for her. You fight to get as much time with your kids as you can.


----------



## happyman64

> This is one aspect I will never be able to reconcile in my mind. To be clear I had approached her numerous times during this period in a calm and rational way to say...if you are unhappy, and are having a affair lets talk about it. I pleaded with her to talk about it, and not drag me any further into this. Denials at every turn, gas-lighting all the way.


From your original post.

Another.



> Her actions do not match her words.


Now it sounds like you do not believe your wife is being honest with you even now so I would not let her break the news about the divorce to the kids.

I would think you should do it with your wife.

After all they are still "your" children. And even though the family dynamic is changing you are still their father and more importantly the leader of your family.

So take control. Tell your children in an age appropriate manner that Mommy no longer wants to live with Daddy so you are divorcing.

Reinforce that you still love them and they are not the cause for your divorce.

And when they are older and really want to know what caused the divorce then you can fill in the blanks. 

Because they will ask. And your wife will most likely not tell them she had an affair and you caught her and her BF in your bed.

Be honest. Be strong. Be calm. Love those kids. What other options are there....

HM


----------



## Threeblessings

This is absolutely devastating. I fully empathise with you. While I didn't catch my H in the act I pleaded for information which he was reluctant to share. This still consumes me. I am left wondering and imagining, it's ugly! I do not know if there is any worse pain in the world than this? I've had 3 children and the pain of adultery is by far much worse than labour pains! It's been nearly 2 years for me and the wounds are still very much there. It's hard to fathom how anyone could stoop this low? To destroy a family even? My children don't know why I am separated from their father and I think they are too young to understand. Wishing you the very best with everything. Take care of yourself and children.


----------



## Lots to Learn

snerg said:


> Good that you are going for the divorce.
> 
> I will point out the above to you.
> 
> You need to let this stew on the back burner for a while.
> 
> Dude. She had an exit affair. An exit affair is to make sure she makes you so angry, you burn any bridges of hope of reconciling.
> 
> She made sure that you would catch her in the bed you two share.
> No matter what she tells you, she was betting that you would catch her sooner or later.
> 
> That's a special kind cruel.
> 
> She has some deep seated hatred toward you.
> 
> She did something on a psychological level to see if she could break you.
> 
> You think about that and her raising your kids.
> 
> You take that with you when you get working with your lawyer. Don't you ever cave to make it easier for her. You fight to get as much time with your kids as you can.


After reading this I realize I may have used the term exit affair wrong. I think I used it in the context of she did it to kill the marriage in her mind. A way to break what remained emotionally in her. The final detachment for her. If that is a exit affair then I suppose.

Sometime ago I had asked her how she thiught it would end. She said she never thought about it. She said she thiught it would judt fizzle out and I would never find out. At this point it doesnt matter really, what she did cannot be undone.


----------



## Lots to Learn

happyman64 said:


> From your original post.
> 
> Another.
> 
> 
> 
> Now it sounds like you do not believe your wife is being honest with you even now so I would not let her break the news about the divorce to the kids.
> 
> I would think you should do it with your wife.
> 
> After all they are still "your" children. And even though the family dynamic is changing you are still their father and more importantly the leader of your family.
> 
> So take control. Tell your children in an age appropriate manner that Mommy no longer wants to live with Daddy so you are divorcing.
> 
> Reinforce that you still love them and they are not the cause for your divorce.
> 
> And when they are older and really want to know what caused the divorce then you can fill in the blanks.
> 
> Because they will ask. And your wife will most likely not tell them she had an affair and you caught her and her BF in your bed.
> 
> Be honest. Be strong. Be calm. Love those kids. What other options are there....
> 
> HM


All sage advice Happy. We are doing it together with the kids tonight. This will consume my thoughts today no doubt. I need to harden myself to avoid the water works. I strugle with my vision of the kids face when we tell them. Wish me luck.


----------



## bfree

Ltl, the affair is what it is. The damage is done and can't be undone. The decision to divorce is made and it is wise.

As to how to tell the children...

The one thing our children count on from us as parents is honesty. It's the one thing we can never deprive them of if we wish them to grow up to be mature morally centered individuals. Because without honesty there is no trust. You (and we) know that better than most. If you do not tell your children the truth (in an age appropriate way of course) then you run the risk of damaging them because they will find out eventually. It may be long after you're dead and buried but it will become known. And when they do find out they're going to question each and every lesson, each and every thing you and your wife have ever said. You're going to be the cause of much FOO (family of origin) issues. Many posters here on TAM have commented about how damaging it was to discover the deception by both parents over an incident of infidelity. Their parents thought they'd spare them pain only to end up being the cause of much more. I strongly suggest you tell them the truth in an age appropriate way so at least they'll know they can trust one parent.


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## The Middleman

bfree said:


> If you do not tell your children the truth (in an age appropriate way of course) then you run the risk of damaging them because they will find out eventually. It may be long after you're dead and buried but it will become known. And when they do find out they're going to question each and every lesson, each and every thing you and your wife have ever said. You're going to be the cause of much FOO (family of origin) issues. Many posters here on TAM have commented about how damaging it was to discover the deception by both parents over an incident of infidelity.


Amen! I couldn't agree more. As someone who has lived this and didn't find out until both parents were gone I went through life disrespecting a woman who was actually a victim. Growing up with lies and misinformation is devastating.


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## happyman64

I'll give you more than luck.

I will say a prayer for your family that you show them strength, compassion and love for dealing with this crappy situation.

They will be ok.

Just be you. From what you have showed us on here you have all the qualities needed to ensure you and your children will be happy in the future.


----------



## turnera

Lots to Learn said:


> I have been debating whether the kids should know or not. There is defiantly opposing views on this. Right now I'd say no. That said if it ever came up now or in the future with them I would not lie.
> 
> As for the AP, I have no idea. She says yes but of course I don't believe a word she says on the subject.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is she still seeing this guy? If so, you definitely tell your kids that he is half the reason their lives are being turned upside down. So that when he tries to pretend he's just some good guy who 'finally' noticed your wife after you two broke up, they'll know the truth and ice him out.

If he is definitely gone, and you think she's not going to continue her skanky ways (thus needing her own kids to set her straight), it's up to you.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

The Middleman said:


> Lots to Learn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What of exposure at this point? Any value? I dont see it at this point but maybe I am blowing smoke..
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the important people in your lives, at the very least, should know the whole story, including how you found out. They need to understand the person she is.
> 
> As far as the kids go, if they are old enough, they should know. My childhood and adolescence was ruined by infidelity and I grew up admiring the wrong person. It was only after both my parents were gone that I understood that the father I admired so much was a pig. I'm not saying that this is the case with you, but they need the facts, pure, simple and not sugar coated. Don't allow them to grow up with misconceptions.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that as you go down the path of divorce, your "friendly" relationship with your WW will be tested. Don't get into a false sense of security.
Click to expand...

Oh yes!
That friendliness will be tested for sure.
The more assets, the more it will be tested.
If you want, it is possible to remain somewhat of friends during the process.
Both of you have to realize that the marriage is over and business is business.
Don't take it personally same thing you would do with the capital you are in control of.
If the deal is fair, you guys take it.
If someone is getting screwed, they will defend it.
I personally did not expose.
I did tell those who asked me why we split up what happened tho.
Those who truly care will ask.
They are the ones that mattered to me.
I have no other experience with exposing so, it may be beneficial to you in ways it wasn't for me


----------



## Lots to Learn

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> Oh yes!
> That friendliness will be tested for sure.
> The more assets, the more it will be tested.
> If you want, it is possible to remain somewhat of friends during the process.
> Both of you have to realize that the marriage is over and business is business.
> Don't take it personally same thing you would do with the capital you are in control of.
> If the deal is fair, you guys take it.
> If someone is getting screwed, they will defend it.
> I personally did not expose.
> I did tell those who asked me why we split up what happened tho.
> Those who truly care will ask.
> They are the ones that mattered to me.
> I have no other experience with exposing so, it may be beneficial to you in ways it wasn't for me


Thanks for this. This is where I stand right not. I amsocial, and outgoing, but do consider myself private if that makes sense. I dont believe I will be broadcasting, however, if Im asked, or it comes up I will have no issue talking about it. Truly, I need to.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Lots to Learn said:


> Sometime ago I had asked her how she thought it would end. She said she never thought about it. She said she thiught it would just fizzle out and I would never find out. At this point it doesnt matter really, what she did cannot be undone.


Stop wondering why a turd is a turd. They just are and that's all that really matters. She did have a deep seated resentment towards you but likely because you reminder her what a turd deep down she was. So boning this guy was a sad attempt to get one over on you. She got off on cheating on you. 

Find a new wife and treat her like a queen. Let the turd, spend the rest of her life feeling stupid for what she threw away. Your trash will be another's treasure. Until he finds out she's just a turd too. Any woman you find will be an upgrade from this turd, remember that. 

Good Luck.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

I completely get it.
I like to attend social functions and even throw a few myself.
But my personal life is just that.
I never understood why people would tell everyone what was going on in their personal lives.
I do now tho.
Because it helps them heal.
Key word is THEM!
If you are set on divorce, and I mean that you know it is inevitable even tho the heart may not want it, then no need to expose widely.
If it helps you gain leverage in your Financials or some other areas, that may be a different story.
Like I said earlier, those that need to know and those that you want to know will find out.

On a side note, here is what happened to me after.
I shut down for quite a bit but laid heavily on a few true friends.
Things got worse as far as my mental health.
Then it slowly got better.
Kids adjusted, I had renewed focus not just on my career but making sure my kids had the tools necessary to be successful, happy adults when the time comes.
I got in better shape, became happier and began exploring new interests.
I made sure that I had a monthly adventure with my children, made sure grades were tight and got them into clubs they enjoyed.

It will get worse tho.
Then it will get better


----------



## Lots to Learn

So the kids have been told. Im left feeling.....numb. 


I think I am also very angry. Im angry that we have arrived here and had to do that. Thats going to take time to reconcile in my mind.

I showed the kids the new house. As kids do, they are excited in a way for their new rooms etc. Im sure its going to take a few days to sink in.


----------



## happyman64

Who did the talking?

What was the reason for the split?

Did your wife go look at your new house kids?


----------



## Bibi1031

Lots to Learn said:


> So the kids have been told. Im left feeling.....numb.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ((((Hugs)))) one of those hard pills that had to be swallowed.
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> I think I am also very angry. Im angry that we have arrived here and had to do that. Thats going to take time to reconcile in my mind.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> I'm glad you found your anger. It's another necessary evil in the journey you were forced to travel through.
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I showed the kids the new house. As kids do, they are excited in a way for their new rooms etc. Im sure its going to take a few days to sink in.


They understand because they were there. They know a lot more than what they are saying. Hug them because they are showing their love and respect for you by being excited to share this new haven for you and them. It's a new life LtoL! You will make and cherish new memories with your two kids. 

Limbo is gone! Welcome to the road most traveled by those of us who were the BS at one time in our lives. You are no short of amazing dude! This gal sure does think so:smile2:

Bibi


----------



## Lots to Learn

Bibi1031 said:


> They understand because they were there. They know a lot more than what they are saying. Hug them because they are showing their love and respect for you by being excited to share this new haven for you and them. It's a new life LtoL! You will make and cherish new memories with your two kids.
> 
> Limbo is gone! Welcome to the road most traveled by those of us who were the BS at one time in our lives. You are no short of amazing dude! This gal sure does think so:smile2:
> 
> Bibi


Thanks for your support through this Bibi. Indeed everyone here. Im not sure where I would be otherwise. I made many mistakes along the way of course, but my biggest take away, and something I intend to convey to others is; do not allow yourself to linger in limbo. It is toxic and destructive. Its serves nothing.


----------



## Lots to Learn

So 26 days until I can take the new house. Of course there is a lot to do in advance. I need the distraction. I thought I would be better at finding stregth in my resolve to remove myself from indedelity, but I am struggling. Not with the choice mind you, but with being together for the next month. Some days im ok, some days are very painful. I have yet to sleep past 3am in a week. I thought as is usually the case for me, that once I have rationalizsd something and made a choice I a usually better. In this case I am not, and I worry that I wont be better for some time. Its ****!

With the typical Canadian winter coming, I am hoping that the new house, and making it "ours" will provide further distraction, and the opportunity to focusmon healing, and my kids.

I think I am realizing is the impact of the affair will be with me for some time, and this frustrates me. What garbage. Any advice to accelerate the process.

Edit;

Ill add that the news of our seperation has not been broadcast with the exception of family. Im not sure ifmits strange that I dont feel the need to go announce this. If I search my feelings on this im sure it is because at a base level I am ashamed and feel humiliated by it all. Frankly im not sure I could tell this story to friends/familynright now without feeling like the floor is falling away from me physically. I dont feel strong enough, but recognize I am past due, I likely need to for my health.

Also, for the few that do know about the seperation at least, BIL, SIL, etc there have been many offers of help. With the move etc. Its funny though, I dont see myself wanting the help. I feel compelled to do this all on my own. I find the planning and doig of it rather cathartic. Am I offside here?


----------



## happyman64

Lots to Learn said:


> So 26 days until I can take the new house. Of course there is a lot to do in advance. I need the distraction. I thought I would be better at finding stregth in my resolve to remove myself from indedelity, but I am struggling. Not with the choice mind you, but with being together for the next month. Some days im ok, some days are very painful. I have yet to sleep past 3am in a week. I thought as is usually the case for me, that once I have rationalizsd something and made a choice I a usually better. In this case I am not, and I worry that I wont be better for some time. Its ****!
> 
> With the typical Canadian winter coming, I am hoping that the new house, and making it "ours" will provide further distraction, and the opportunity to focusmon healing, and my kids.
> 
> I think I am realizing is the impact of the affair will be with me for some time, and this frustrates me. What garbage. Any advice to accelerate the process.
> 
> Edit;
> 
> Ill add that the news of our seperation has not been broadcast with the exception of family. Im not sure ifmits strange that I dont feel the need to go announce this. If I search my feelings on this im sure it is because at a base level I am ashamed and feel humiliated by it all. Frankly im not sure I could tell this story to friends/familynright now without feeling like the floor is falling away from me physically. I dont feel strong enough, but recognize I am past due, I likely need to for my health.
> 
> Also, for the few that do know about the seperation at least, BIL, SIL, etc there have been many offers of help. With the move etc. Its funny though, I dont see myself wanting the help. I feel compelled to do this all on my own. I find the planning and doig of it rather cathartic. Am I offside here?



Offside? No. But do not look at accepting help from family as a weakness.

Accepting help is a sign that you are getting stronger and confident in the direction you are heading in.


----------



## happyman64

you don't feel the need to broadcast why you two are no longer living together so be it.

But don't lie for her or yourself.

You have nothing to be ashamed of.

And if someone gets really pushy I have found the old " When I discovered my wife in bed with the OM I realized I had new options to consider for my future" works wonders and stops people in their tracks.

What did your wife think of the apartment?

And how has she been to cohabitate with while legally separating?

HM


----------



## Marc878

It's a natural feeling but the shame is on her not you.

The quicker you can get away from her the better off you'll be. 

TIme cures a lot and it won't happen overnight but the sun will come up in the morning and you'll move on.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> It's a natural feeling but the shame is on her not you.
> 
> The quicker you can get away from her the better off you'll be.
> 
> TIme cures a lot and it won't happen overnight but the sun will come up in the morning and you'll move on.



Well things have been ok until yesterday. We did see the mediator to draft our aggreement which went fine. We have come to terms with everything with the exception of our home which she will buy out. Just waiting for real estate.

So we did agree that as its a emotionally charged time we both need to gut out the remaining days until close. So as to not infkame any feelings etc.

To my amazment she tells me Friday that she has plans Saturday night, but doesnt bother to share what they are. She also states she will stay at her moms, who btw is out of town for weeks.

I sit her down and again explain that of course she should go out and do stuff but from my perspective what you doing isnstrange and you know why. I reminded her that doing this right in front of me is beyond deplorable. She of course deflected. I told her she should go do whatever but come home after.

Anyways she packs up a bottle of wine, clothes, her little bag of bedroom toys and off she goes.nshe has no idea I know what she brought. I watch the banking and there is anfair cash withdrawal, and shopping at the lingerie store. I just dont get it.

We talked about the importance of getting past these days. I told her gut it ou as will I, and of course once im gone you can do as you please. I was beside myself and still am. She seems hell bent in destroying every little piece of our relationship, even what we would need for co-parenting. The irony here is she still talks about a possibel reconcilliation in the future. Indeed, when at mediation the councillor says..you guys seem to be doing alright why are you doing this? My wife responds that she hopes that with some space she hopes we can eventually reconcile. Huh? In parrallel she is planning her future with OM!!

This is worrying me that she is broken in her mind. Has she completely rationalized and compartmentalized this so she lives in 2 worlds? Its so bizzare. 

Anyways, last night she left and I felt like im losing it. How could she be so cruel, and humiliate me even more by going out like that? Im thinking, how am I going to survive 23 days if this is how its going to be? WTF? In the hottub that very morning she is like ...we will all do xmas together this year right? Huh?

I see im rambling. Anyways so last night I call her sister who we are both close to. I just was coming apart and needed to talk. I needed some help before my wife destroys every little tning. I sit her down and of course she knows we have had issues and knows the path we have been on and where are going.

I tell her that what I am about to tel her is what has really been going on and she will be the first to hear it. I go on to relay the details of the past few months. All of it.For those who have not been following along this is the first person I have talked to about the affair.

She of course is floored. She just cant believe it. I tell her tbe only reason im telling her at this point is not to try and salvage the marriage, but help me get to the finish line, and her sister is so self absorbed she looks like she is going tomdestroy everything. SIL cant believe it, and knows what my wife is doing is beyind deplorable.

So I havent slept yet. It was good to get it out there with SIL, though we will need to talk more. SiL was adament that she talk to my wife. Im not sure what is going to happen with that today, but I worry.

I worry that my wife is mentally broken and this upcoming discussion with her sister and indeed with me this am when she comes home is going to mesd her up more. She has been making **** choices and with agreement almost done I worry about the effect on that.

It so profoundly sad to have lived and witnessed all this. Even 2 weeks agon when I had direction to move on and was feeling better, I never thought my wife would bring us this low. Its so unbelievably heart breaking.

Edit;

Ill add that when she comes home ill be confronting her again. Ill be stating that clearly she cant respect any boundary and as a result she should go stay at her moms until I move. Ill also be telling her that she cant be trusted with our money so we will have to lock our accounts. I cant believe it has come to this. I cant wait to be away from this, I cant do this much longer.


----------



## Marc878

She's doing this because there's been no exposure. No consequences. She's still in la la land. 

It's all about her. You, kids don't matter all she can see is the other man. I'd make sure I took off the toys and lingerie from her settlement and furnish the receipts!!!!

If I were you I'd go full exposure if for nothing else my own self respect. It felt good telling someone didn't it. This is not about you. This is who she is. Tell the OM wife it's still ongoing.

I gotta be honest your acting like a doormat here.

She's not your friend.


----------



## Marc878

Oh and tell her to move out. You and the kids don't need this low class act.

Man up now or trying to coparent with her will be a nightmare. 

She'll run all over you. This is your life too. It's about time you took some control of it.

Take a good look at what being Mr. Nice Guy has gotten you. Zero respect!!!!

Your actions or inaction has given her the idea she can come back anytime she pleases and everything will be as it once was. No matter how much she rubs your nose in it. And you're gonna be buddies as toxic as this is???????


----------



## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> She's doing this because there's been no exposure. No consequences. She's still in la la land.
> 
> It's all about her. You, kids don't matter all she can see is the other man. I'd make sure I took off the toys and lingerie from her settlement and furnish the receipts!!!!
> 
> If I were you I'd go full exposure if for nothing else my own self respect. It felt good telling someone didn't it. This is not about you. This is who she is. Tell the OM wife it's still ongoing.
> 
> I gotta be honest your acting like a doormat here.
> 
> She's not your friend.


Marc;

Ive taken the steps. Asked for divorce, bought a house etc. Im leaving. This other **** justbhapoened last night. I have not yet had the chance to react. That will be today. Not sure how thats a doormat. Yes it felt good to talknabout it.


----------



## Marc878

Obviously she feels she can do whatever she wants and maybe reconcile later???? And you're gonna be real close friends???

Why in the hell would anyone want that in their life????

Maybe it's about time you blew her up. I suspect she's getting this from your end. Yeah you're separating and filing but it seems like it's because she wants it. You're just along for the ride????

Am I wrong??????


----------



## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> Obviously she feels she can do whatever she wants and maybe reconcile later???? And you're gonna be real close friends???
> 
> Why in the hell would anyone want that in their life????
> 
> Maybe it's about time you blew her up. I suspect she's getting this from your end. Yeah you're separating and filing but it seems like it's because she wants it. You're just along for the ride????
> 
> Am I wrong??????


Blow up will be today. No ultimatley I have initiated the seperation/divorce. Im not giving any feedback relative to reconciliation period. Indeed every time she mentions it or some future event together (X mas) ive been telling her my focus is on the next 23 days. Period.

I am glad her sister now knows as im going to need her support to enure my wife flies stright with respect to the seperation. And to your question...no not friends, I let that go before. I just need to get away from her and start my life with kids.


----------



## Marc878

Good maybe she'll get it this time.

Anyway it'll do you good to get that sh*t off your chest and let her spend the time trying to defend her actions to everyone.

When a bright light is shown on her it won't be pretty. 

In my opinion the more who know at this point will at least keep her occupied in another direction and help you get through this until you can distance her.

Maybe a short letter to all concerned. 

We're separating/divorcing because of her affair with MR POS. This was on her 100%.

That'll keep her occupied and give you some peace of mind. Share some of the pain!!!!!


----------



## farsidejunky

That is the first time you have exposed.to anyone?

Dafuq?

So you were just going to be a good little boy while your wife is out giving the goods to another man?

Are you even hearing yourself right now?


----------



## Lots to Learn

farsidejunky said:


> That is the first time you have exposed.to anyone?
> 
> Dafuq?
> 
> So you were just going to be a good little boy while your wife is out giving the goods to another man?
> 
> Are you even hearing yourself right now?


Tne short answer is yes. We went thriugh a period where we thought to reconcile. This went on tor some time. I decided week or so ago this would not be possible so need to hold it any longer.

In hindsight it was a mistake.


----------



## farsidejunky

Lots to Learn said:


> Tne short answer is yes. We went thriugh a period where we thought to reconcile. This went on tor some time. I decided week or so ago this would not be possible so need to hold it any longer.


So did she.

But in the meantime, if you decided you are not going to stay with her, you don't have any right to expect her to behave herself anymore.

However, if you knew she cheated, you should have exposed. Exposure kills affairs.


----------



## OldWolf57

LTL, what did you do about the guy??


----------



## Lots to Learn

OldWolf57 said:


> LTL, what did you do about the guy??


What can be done at this point? I spoke to his wife, she was deeply upset.I have no idea what is happening now though. I would imagine she thinks the affair is over and is being lied to. You know how that works.


----------



## Marc878

i suspect reality will set in once it's out in the open. Plenty of sunlight will do that at a lot to of good. If the kids ask where she is I'd tell em she's with her boyfriend.

Not exposing just helped perpetuate the affair. This one was on you.

It probably never stopped.

Call the OM wife today and tell her where her husband has been.


----------



## Marc878

I hate to say it but you've been covering for them.

I'm sure they appreciated it.


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## OldWolf57

The minute you saw the purchases, you should have called his wife and gave her a heads up, for his coming excuse for being out.


----------



## Chaparral

Marc878 said:


> She's doing this because there's been no exposure. No consequences. She's still in la la land.
> 
> It's all about her. You, kids don't matter all she can see is the other man. I'd make sure I took off the toys and lingerie from her settlement and furnish the receipts!!!!
> 
> If I were you I'd go full exposure if for nothing else my own self respect. It felt good telling someone didn't it. This is not about you. This is who she is. Tell the OM wife it's still ongoing.
> 
> I gotta be honest your acting like a doormat here.
> 
> She's not your friend.


Bully's only walk on the people that let them.

Lock the accts THEN tell her. Maybe now you know she is a total loser. You can't trust anything about her.

Expose far and wide. All you've done is let her have her cake and wat it too.


----------



## Chaparral

Lots to Learn said:


> What can be done at this point? I spoke to his wife, she was deeply upset.I have no idea what is happening now though. I would imagine she thinks the affair is over and is being lied to. You know how that works.


So you called her and told her your wife was going out on a date just in case her husband was going out that night?


----------



## OldWolf57

This is not a game, if you want respect, you demand it. If not respect, then make them fear you.
You have exposing far and wide on your side, if she is as private a person as you say.

As for the coming drama,,, "BIT#H if I'm not getting any for the next 23 days, your slu$$y as not either, so close your leg and shut your co#k sucking mouth". 

My man, some time you have to get in the trenches an kick a lil as.

You can make all the excuses you want about being broken, but a ho is a ho, so treat it like one.
AND they push out babies ALL the time.


----------



## OldWolf57

This is your typical skank, NOTHING special about her, except she is married to a TOOO nice a guy, and takes advantage of it.


----------



## OldWolf57

As for old boy, he never would have made it out of my house under his own power.


----------



## Marc878

The one thing you should learn here is this.

Your wife is extremely smart. You only got lucky and caught them in the act. She has had you under her control. She knows you and your weaknesses and has used them to her full advantage. She'll never give that up willingly even after your separation/divorce. This will never change no matter what.

Her talking reconciliation was to keep you inline. She is making your life what she wants it to be.

If you don't man up, wake up you'll never have a full life. You could do this. The only thing holding you back is YOU!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Lots to Learn

Chaparral said:


> So you called her and told her your wife was going out on a date just in case her husband was going out that night?


No, I meant whenD day happened.


----------



## Chaparral

Lots to Learn said:


> No, I meant whenD day happened.


No I meant did you warn the other mans wife your wife was headed out the door with her sex toys.


----------



## Chaparral

Looks like youve never read MMSLP linked to below. Here is an excerpt from amazon. This is the most widely recommended book on this site.



"the opening covers the underlying ancient "hard-wired" biological and modern social reasons women find men attractive. Athol pulls no punches here and the sexual motivations of women are laid bare. Though rather than framing women as sexually devious and seeking to advantage themselves over men, he explains how their sexual behavior is entirely rational in nature and once understood as such, it becomes very useful information. 

The second part of the book takes the framework developed in the first part and offers a wealth of tools to put it to practical use. The most important tool is The Male Action Plan, which charges the husband with the task of becoming a better, sexier man and thereby leveraging his increased attractiveness for a better sex life with his wife. As Athol says, "whoever is the most attractive in the relationship is in charge."

The third part of the book is a treasure trove of playful sexy and romantic moves women will find charming and engaging. It's clear that Athol could have a harem of young ladies, but here he displays an endless variety of playful instigation to continually charm just one. The final section is a catchall of serious topics on what not to do, how to choose a wife, the current state of marriage law and a crushingly simple approach to dealing with being cheated on. 



Btw, you should have worn the posom out with a baseball bat when you caught them in your house. not doing so cost you the last bit of respect your wife had for you. Time to start regaining that respect.


----------



## Marc878

Actions speak louder than words.

I wouldn't tell the stbxw anything. you're wasting your time talking to her. Let her find out after. She needs a good waking up. 

I'd go scorched earth full exposure now. OM wife would be the first call this am.

Bag her sh*t up and put it on the front porch. Tell her to go live at her mothers.

Old Wolf is right she'll probably never have any respect for you but this will tell her she can't rub it in your face again.

Do nothing you'll get more of the same. After the divorce won't be any different except you won't be living with her.


----------



## turnera

Lots to Learn said:


> Ill add that when she comes home ill be confronting her again. Ill be stating that clearly she cant respect any boundary and as a result she should go stay at her moms until I move.


WHAT boundary?

A boundary is a rule you set that HAS CONSEQUENCES.

So far, you have given no consequences. So why should she listen to any so-called boundaries?

We told you to expose the affair. If you had, maybe she'd be home with her tail between her legs by now.

By all means, however, send her packing. But call her mom and tell her why.


----------



## The Middleman

@Lots to Learn I will tell you that I have no words (that I can post to this board) that can describe how vile I think the the behavior of your POSWW has been and continues to be. However, as others have pointed out, her current behavior is a direct result of how you are currently handling her; with a respect that she doesn't deserve. Now I sincerely hope that your passiveness about assuring true consequences for this behavior is you desire to get a divorce as quickly and as painlessly as possible, and then afterwards, you'll tell everyone the truth. But somehow I think that she is going to come out of this smelling like a rose and not the pig that she is.


----------



## happyman64

LtoL

Your post about her date with her BF bothered me.

You did the right thing in exposing the Afdair to her sister.

Might I also make one other suggestion.

Get the kids and go over to her "date" place. Have the OMW and her kids meet you there.

Force them to come out and say good night to the kids.

Embarrass them because they deserve it.

Then leave.

And never be friends with her again. Never let her have any doubt in her mind that you would ever reconcile with her or that banging her BF while married to you is acceptable.

Your kids will fill in the blanks when they get older.

She should move out if she is going to behave like this.

Why not put a sign outside your house "My wife no longer sleeps here because she is sleeping with her BF at her moms house."

Expose the Affair.

HM


----------



## Lots to Learn

The Middleman said:


> @Lots to Learn I will tell you that I have no words (that I can post to this board) that can describe how vile I think the the behavior of your POSWW has been and continues to be. However, as others have pointed out, her current behavior is a direct result of how you are currently handling her; with a respect that she doesn't deserve. Now I sincerely hope that your passiveness about assuring true consequences for this behavior is you desire to get a divorce as quickly and as painlessly as possible, and then afterwards, you'll tell everyone the truth. But somehow I think that she is going to come out of this smelling like a rose and not the pig that she is.



Middleman. This wasmthe approach I was taking. Get the agreement done and move on as quickly as possible.


----------



## Marc878

Lots to Learn said:


> Middleman. This wasmthe approach I was taking. Get the agreement done and move on as quickly as possible.


If there was hope of any reconciliation and I suspect that's why you were trying to nice her back its cost you dearly. No self respect.

The big problem is this may well define you permanently.

Why?????


----------



## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> If there was hope of any reconciliation and I suspect that's why you were trying to nice her back its cost you dearly. No self respect.
> 
> The big problem is this may well define you permanently.
> 
> Why?????


Marc;

Im not sure I have a rational answer. You have been following along and offering much support. Looking back I would do things differently. At any particular point though I guessvi let emotion drive me and the hope to stay together. Clearly I dont feel this way anymore.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

My ex did the very same thing. As soon as I knew about the affair and that the marriage was over, even though we still had to live together for a bit longer, my ex became BLATANT about carrying on the affair as though nothing could hurt me any longer.

Physical objects that had anything to do with the AP or their affair that I found in the house, (ie, lingerie) I confiscated. If that **** was going to be left for me to find or be aware of, it was being taken away from them. If they were going to hurt my feelings with it, I felt well within my rights to dispose of it.

As for my ex going out, I couldn't control that sort of behaviour. I was left with the kids, and focused my energy on being the better parent. Forget custody and time being equal. If my ex was happy to be away from them, I was just as happy to be with the children and setting up our single parent household routine.

I already had all the evidence I could ever need that my ex was a selfish, lying cheater with no comprehension of reasonable boundaries. All the additional stuff just confirmed over and over that I was doing the right thing. Each bit of evidence was like a gift that erased all doubt in my mind and all hope of reconciliation.


----------



## Marc878

Hopeful Cynic said:


> My ex did the very same thing. As soon as I knew about the affair and that the marriage was over, even though we still had to live together for a bit longer, my ex became BLATANT about carrying on the affair as though nothing could hurt me any longer.
> 
> Physical objects that had anything to do with the AP or their affair that I found in the house, (ie, lingerie) I confiscated. If that **** was going to be left for me to find or be aware of, it was being taken away from them. If they were going to hurt my feelings with it, I felt well within my rights to dispose of it.
> 
> As for my ex going out, I couldn't control that sort of behaviour. I was left with the kids, and focused my energy on being the better parent. Forget custody and time being equal. If my ex was happy to be away from them, I was just as happy to be with the children and setting up our single parent household routine.
> 
> I already had all the evidence I could ever need that my ex was a selfish, lying cheater with no comprehension of reasonable boundaries. All the additional stuff just confirmed over and over that I was doing the right thing. Each bit of evidence was like a gift that erased all doubt in my mind and all hope of reconciliation.


I get this but you don't have to accept living with it. You don't have to keep it hidden. It's ok for your kids to watch this???? They aren't stupid. And they will form an opinion of who you are and what you accept.

The truth and what you're willing to accept shouldn't be compromised.

Again, I'd get it out in the open so everyone would know what's happening. 

Her stuff would be in garbage bags on the front porch.

At least it makes a statement of not letting some one rub their dirty panties in your face.

What's wrong with being a man?????????


----------



## Bibi1031

Marc878 said:


> The one thing you should learn here is this.
> 
> Your wife is extremely smart. You only got lucky and caught them in the act. She has had you under her control. She knows you and your weaknesses and has used them to her full advantage. She'll never give that up willingly even after your separation/divorce. This will never change no matter what.
> 
> Her talking reconciliation was to keep you inline. She is making your life what she wants it to be.
> 
> If you don't man up, wake up you'll never have a full life. You could do this. The only thing holding you back is YOU!!!!!!!!!


This is spot on. You really need to fully expose her to everyone. She needs to know that what she is doing is wrong, and others will be the ones to show her this not you. 

Sadly, she knows you too well, she thinks deep down inside you, you will wait for her and allow her back in if she ever needs her plan b. Your kids are old enough to know the truth, they need to be in on it because OM will not be out of the picture. Your kids will resent being lied to by the two adults they trusted the most.

Call her parents now and tell them their daughter is disrespecting the family home, your's and the kids. Tell your kids the ugly truth now. You foolishly trusted their mom to respect their home, but she failed miserably by continuing an affair with a married man. She took time away from them to be with him. You thought she would not do this to them, after all she stopped loving and respecting you, but not them. 

It looks like selfish mom's priorities are with someone else. They deserve to know they are sloppy seconds for mom too and not just dad.
That is the saddest part in this mess. She doesn't care about the kids either. They will set their own boundaries with her from now on. Stop protecting her, or your boys will rightfully start resenting you for not allowing them to decide what kind of relationship they would want with mom.

You may even turn out to be the winner if you finally completely expose skank for who she truly is. The kids may request she leave and you stay in the family home. 

Please be completely honest with family, yours, hers,and especially the boys. 

That's why she is sooooo adamant you remain friends to make herself look good. She will loose her children's trust and respect. She owns 100% of this too. 

Bibi


----------



## Lots to Learn

Hopeful Cynic said:


> My ex did the very same thing. As soon as I knew about the affair and that the marriage was over, even though we still had to live together for a bit longer, my ex became BLATANT about carrying on the affair as though nothing could hurt me any longer.
> 
> Physical objects that had anything to do with the AP or their affair that I found in the house, (ie, lingerie) I confiscated. If that **** was going to be left for me to find or be aware of, it was being taken away from them. If they were going to hurt my feelings with it, I felt well within my rights to dispose of it.
> 
> As for my ex going out, I couldn't control that sort of behaviour. I was left with the kids, and focused my energy on being the better parent. Forget custody and time being equal. If my ex was happy to be away from them, I was just as happy to be with the children and setting up our single parent household routine.
> 
> I already had all the evidence I could ever need that my ex was a selfish, lying cheater with no comprehension of reasonable boundaries. All the additional stuff just confirmed over and over that I was doing the right thing. Each bit of evidence was like a gift that erased all doubt in my mind and all hope of reconciliation.


HC; How long did you endure that?


----------



## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> I get this but you don't have to accept living with it. You don't have to keep it hidden. It's ok for your kids to watch this???? They aren't stupid. And they will form an opinion of who you are and what you accept.
> 
> The truth and what you're willing to accept shouldn't be compromised.
> 
> Again, I'd get it out in the open so everyone would know what's happening.
> 
> Her stuff would be in garbage bags on the front porch.
> 
> At least it makes a statement of not letting some one rub their dirty panties in your face.
> 
> What's wrong with being a man?????????


Marc; 

I agree and wontbe putting up with it. Ill be speaking to her soon. I cant kick her to the curb she owns this house too. She will either have to go to her moms, or ill get a condo weekly until close.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Marc878 said:


> I get this but you don't have to accept living with it. You don't have to keep it hidden. It's ok for your kids to watch this???? They aren't stupid. And they will form an opinion of who you are and what you accept.
> 
> The truth and what you're willing to accept shouldn't be compromised.
> 
> Again, I'd get it out in the open so everyone would know what's happening.
> 
> Her stuff would be in garbage bags on the front porch.
> 
> At least it makes a statement of not letting some one rub their dirty panties in your face.
> 
> What's wrong with being a man?????????


Clearly, I didn't accept living with it. It was passive-aggressive, but I did it this way because we didn't have a separation agreement yet, and I couldn't rock the boat without risking not getting what I wanted. It was only for a few months until my ex could move out, and that was apparently so thrilling that I got a lot of concessions.

Also, the children were very young and weren't forming an opinion about anything except that I was the one there for them.

Anyways, the lesson I was trying to impart is to imagine your ex is like a self-absorbed teenager with no concept of the impact of their actions on anybody else.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Lots to Learn said:


> HC; How long did you endure that?


It was a couple of months. They spanned Christmas, which absolutely sucked, but I convinced the ex to let me take the kids out of town to visit family and that helped.

If I can get through that, you got this.


----------



## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> I get this but you don't have to accept living with it. You don't have to keep it hidden. It's ok for your kids to watch this???? They aren't stupid. And they will form an opinion of who you are and what you accept.
> 
> The truth and what you're willing to accept shouldn't be compromised.
> 
> Again, I'd get it out in the open so everyone would know what's happening.
> 
> Her stuff would be in garbage bags on the front porch.
> 
> At least it makes a statement of not letting some one rub their dirty panties in your face.
> 
> What's wrong with being a man?????????





Hopeful Cynic said:


> It was a couple of months. They spanned Christmas, which absolutely sucked, but I convinced the ex to let me take the kids out of town to visit family and that helped.
> 
> If I can get through that, you got this.


Ya 23 days, wnd it cwnt come fast enough. I know it ill take some time to revover from this but I am looking fwd to apllying my energy into something positive. The new house and kids.


----------



## turnera

Lots to Learn said:


> Marc;
> 
> I agree and wontbe putting up with it. Ill be speaking to her soon. I cant kick her to the curb she owns this house too. She will either have to go to her moms, or ill get a condo weekly until close.


Maybe, but if she refuses to move out, you CAN make her life miserable. Starting with telling her entire family what she's doing. And then inviting people over at all hours of the day, to 'claim' your home as your own. Invite over all the people she hates. Play loud music as much as you want. Keep football games going 24/7 on the tv. Get boxes and start packing up every single thing that she owns and keep on moving those boxes to the garage. She wants to live there? Fine, but she'll be living in boxes in the garage. Remove EVERY piece of lingerie or sex toy you can find and throw them away. When she buys another, throw it away, too. And again. And again. Eventually, she'll just give up and move in with him and leave the kids with you.

EVERY time she goes out 'with the girls' make sure she comes home to another couple boxes of her stuff boxed up in the garage. Man up.

No matter what, YOU do NOT move out.


----------



## Marc878

Just getting through it is not the point.

It's coming through on the other side with some self respect. If you can't respect yourself and who you are no one will, even your family and kids.

It's your house too. Who's going to stop you from putting her stuff on the porch. I guarantee you she'll get the point.

You're not asking much here. She can't stop acting like a low class wh*re in front of you and the kids for 23 days????? If she can't then she takes it to her mothers house. 

What are you afraid of? The kids seeing their dad act like a man?????

My dad exploded on my mom once and she deserved it. I was proud as hell of him.


----------



## Satya

Have you called her parents yet? 

If no, why not?


----------



## Marc878

turnera said:


> Maybe, but if she refuses to move out, you CAN make her life miserable. Starting with telling her entire family what she's doing. And then inviting people over at all hours of the day, to 'claim' your home as your own. Invite over all the people she hates. Play loud music as much as you want. Keep football games going 24/7 on the tv. Get boxes and start packing up every single thing that she owns and keep on moving those boxes to the garage. She wants to live there? Fine, but she'll be living in boxes in the garage. Remove EVERY piece of lingerie or sex toy you can find and throw them away. When she buys another, throw it away, too. And again. And again. Eventually, she'll just give up and move in with him and leave the kids with you.
> 
> EVERY time she goes out 'with the girls' make sure she comes home to another couple boxes of her stuff boxed up in the garage. Man up.


Throw the toys out on the front lawn along with her lingerie. She'll break a speed record to pick them up.

You can sit on the porch, drink beer and watch the show. It'll cheer you up I promise!!!


----------



## Marc878

You have a Golden opportunity to stand up for who you are and what you believe in here. In this time of severe distraught this may well be your defining moment. 

GET IT DONE!!!! You will find your life will become easier more manageable. Attitude of not letting anyone mess with you is important.

I've had many. I learned. I like confrontation now because I know how to handle it. Now it's your turn.

The time to start running your life is NOW. The Calvary isn't coming you have to do this yourself. Don't back off or Vere to the the side go straight at them. They will run, hide, get out of your way. Never ever stop or let up.


----------



## Marc878

Lots to Learn said:


> Marc;
> W
> I agree and wontbe putting up with it. Ill be speaking to her soon. I cant kick her to the curb she owns this house too. She will either have to go to her moms, or ill get a condo weekly until close.


DO NOT RUN! This is on her.

She'll leave if you put the pressure on. If you leave you reinforce your weakness. Don't do this. Your kids will grow up some day. What do you want them to think of you?????


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Marc878 said:


> DO NOT RUN! This is on her.
> 
> She'll leave if you put the pressure on. If you leave you reinforce your weakness. Don't do this. Your kids will grow up some day. What do you want them to think of you?????


Yeah, there's no reason for YOU to leave the house or pay for a condo rental.

Just ignore her when she's home and give her every opportunity and incentive to go out with her AP as much as possible. Don't feel you need to go out to keep anything even. Just let her go play in fantasyland while you establish time with your children.


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## turnera

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Yeah, there's no reason for YOU to leave the house or pay for a condo rental.
> 
> Just ignore her when she's home and give her every opportunity and incentive to go out with her AP as much as possible. Don't feel you need to go out to keep anything even. Just let her go play in fantasyland while you establish time with your children.


And go to the store TODAY and buy a bound notebook. Write down every day's date (or use one with a calendar in it). Every single time she leaves the house AND THE KIDS to go screw the other man, WRITE IT DOWN. 

LET her fill up the whole calendar. When you're in front of the judge, just show him the calendar so he can see what kind of mother she's been. While you stayed home every night and watched the kids.


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## Marc878

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Yeah, there's no reason for YOU to leave the house or pay for a condo rental.
> 
> Just iganore her when she's home and give her every opportunity and incentive to go out with her AP as much as possible. Don't feel you need to go out to keep anything even. Just let her go play in fantasyland while you establish time with your children.


Perfect!!!!

You can be the doormat babysitter. 

Maybe you could pick up some batteries for WW's toys too!!!

I'm sure OM would appreciate that.


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## VFW

I know that this is one of the toughest things you have ever done, but you are actually doing better than you think. You will have good days and bad days, that will just happen and takes time. Don’t worry about being friends with her. She is the mother of your children and should be treated with respect for their sake, however, personally she is not your buddy, pal, or friend. I recommend exercise to help with the stress. You don’t have to be a gym rat, but walking, cycling, swimming, whatever you desire. Explore a hobby you may have neglected or start a new one. Think about taking a cooking class or something that may interest you. Change up your wardrobe, get a new hairstyle or facial hair, something different. 

The holidays are always tough to get through the first year. This is a personal call, but I would not spend it with her. Plan something new and different with the kids throughout the Christmas season. Go ice skating, see the Nutcracker or other event that they would like. Start to build your own new Christmas traditions with your children. Think about giving her Christmas morning and you take the afternoon and evening at the new house. Think about maybe allowing them options on painting their rooms at the new house. Make time with them count, this will be a big help to both them and yourself.


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## Lots to Learn

*Re: A Sincere Thank Youx*



VFW said:


> I know that this is one of the toughest things you have ever done, but you are actually doing better than you think. You will have good days and bad days, that will just happen and takes time. Don’t worry about being friends with her. She is the mother of your children and should be treated with respect for their sake, however, personally she is not your buddy, pal, or friend. I recommend exercise to help with the stress. You don’t have to be a gym rat, but walking, cycling, swimming, whatever you desire. Explore a hobby you may have neglected or start a new one. Think about taking a cooking class or something that may interest you. Change up your wardrobe, get a new hairstyle or facial hair, something different.
> 
> The holidays are always tough to get through the first year. This is a personal call, but I would not spend it with her. Plan something new and different with the kids throughout the Christmas season. Go ice skating, see the Nutcracker or other event that they would like. Start to build your own new Christmas traditions with your children. Think about giving her Christmas morning and you take the afternoon and evening at the new house. Think about maybe allowing them options on painting their rooms at the new house. Make time with them count, this will be a big help to both them and yourself.


Thanks. So its done, she will stay at her moms until the closing day. So the count down is on.

To your point im not sure I can do Xmas but I guess we will see how I am. I was thinking to myself I am so tired. Its been since July 14th since I slept what I would consider regular night. When does that come bqck? Maybe at the new house.

Again thanks all for the 2x4's especially you Marc. You have had a knack through all of this to know when I needed support, and when I needed a kick in the ass.


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## Bibi1031

*Re: A Sincere Thank Youx*



Lots to Learn said:


> Thanks. So its done, she will stay at her moms until the closing day. So the count down is on.
> 
> To your point im not sure I can do Xmas but I guess we will see how I am. I was thinking to myself I am so tired. Its been since July 14th since I slept what I would consider regular night. When does that come bqck? Maybe at the new house.
> 
> Again thanks all for the 2x4's especially you Marc. You have had a knack through all of this to know when I needed support, and when I needed a kick in the ass.


Aray: thank you Lord for finally seeing some light at the end of this man's tunnel.

You can now feel a bit better. Without her presence, you and your 2 kids will feel more at peace. Bond, bond, bond with them. 

I'm so happy for you 3, you made me cry with this great news. I know how hurtful her total disregard for your feelings felt. 

Hurray! Celebrate this small yet very important step into getting back some very needed peace!

(((Hugs))))

Bibi


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## Marc878

It's very painful-frustrating for me to see you going through this. It's hard to deal with I know but damn you need to get your self respect back. I'm 100% on your side here. Congrats on getting her out. Don't stop now you have them on the run.

You're taking all the sh*t and not giving any back. If you manage to get the courage to kick some azz you'll understand how much easier it makes your life.

I had to learn as well but trust me it works like a charm. You're not the bad guy in this. Use it!!!!!

Had you busted them hard up front you may have had your wife back. When people are scrutinized in front of everyone their reasons/excuses evaporate.

I'd be going scorched earth. Revenge served cold and well planned is very sweet indeed.

And the knowledge of not ever fvking with you again is seared into their memories.


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## Lots to Learn

*Re: A Sincere Thank Youx*



Bibi1031 said:


> Aray: thank you Lord for finally seeing some light at the end of this man's tunnel.
> 
> You can now feel a bit better. Without her presence, you and your 2 kids will feel more at peace. Bond, bond, bond with them.
> 
> I'm so happy for you 3, you made me cry with this great news. I know how hurtful her total disregard for your feelings felt.
> 
> Hurray! Celebrate this small yet very important step into getting back some very needed peace!
> 
> (((Hugs))))
> 
> Bibi


Thanks Bibi, I have opened a nice bottle of red, put the music on, and will get down to making a nice dinner with candles for the kids.


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## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> It's very painful-frustrating for me to see you going through this. It's hard to deal with I know but damn you need to get your self respect back.
> 
> You're taking all the sh*t and not giving any back. If you manage to get the courage to kick some azz you'll understand how much easier it makes your life.
> 
> I had to learn as well but trust me it works like a charm. You're not the bad guy in this.
> 
> Had you busted them hard up front you may have had your wife back. When people are scrutinized in front of everyone their reasons/excuses evaporate.
> 
> I'd be going scorched earth. Revenge served cold and well planned is very sweet indeed.
> 
> And the knowledge of not ever fvking with you again is seared into their memories.


Thanks Marc,

If you recall, kicking ass and solving issues is m5 career. For whatever reason I could never be like that with her. No doubt my lingering love. As someone said at the beginning of this I am very objective, which serves me well at work, but just killed me in this.

I have learned a lot, and climbed a mountain through this ****. It makesthe typical day to day issues seem...so basic.


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## Marc878

*Re: A Sincere Thank Youx*



Lots to Learn said:


> Thanks. So its done, she will stay at her moms until the closing day. So the count down is on.
> 
> To your point im not sure I can do Xmas but I guess we will see how I am. I was thinking to myself I am so tired. Its been since July 14th since I slept what I would consider regular night. When does that come bqck? Maybe at the new house.
> A
> Again thanks all for the 2x4's especially you Marc. You have had a knack through all of this to know when I needed support, and when I needed a kick in the ass.


Plan your own Christmas without her. Thanksgiving too. Let her figure out her end. She may as well get used to it now. I bet you will sleep better tonight. Thanks for listening. I know I'm a real bast*rd at times but........ I've been through more shat than 10 people.


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## turnera

Lots to Learn said:


> Thanks Marc,
> 
> If you recall, kicking ass and solving issues is m5 career. For whatever reason I could never be like that with her.


That's because you haven't read No More Mr Nice Guy yet, to learn what you should have learned growing up. It will suit you well in the future. Please read it.

Question, though - the kids are staying with you, right? Right? That is ONE thing to put your foot down about.


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## Dyokemm

Lots to Learn said:


> Thanks Marc,
> 
> If you recall, kicking ass and solving issues is m5 career. For whatever reason I could never be like that with her. No doubt my lingering love. As someone said at the beginning of this I am very objective, which serves me well at work, but just killed me in this.
> 
> I have learned a lot, and climbed a mountain through this ****. It makesthe typical day to day issues seem...so basic.


Lots,

Glad to see you are finally taking steps to put an end to the intolerable behavior your WW was exposing you and your kids to.

Continue the exposure ASAP.....both your families and all friends should be informed tonight.

In addition...one more call....to POSOM's BW to inform her of last night's date and the continuation of the A.

One comment on your last post.....you do seem to be an objective guy.... but I think the problems you have been dealing with since catching her red-handed are evidence that you have NOT been objective at all, but rather been making purely emotional choices based on your pain and maybe hopes for a possible R.

Make sure from now on, your decisions are only based on the reality you face......no more allowing your lingering emotions to push you into 'nice guy' decisions that cover for or enable WW's sh*tty behavior.


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## Bibi1031

*Re: A Sincere Thank Youx*



Lots to Learn said:


> Thanks Bibi, I have opened a nice bottle of red, put the music on, and will get down to making a nice dinner with candles for the kids.


You're a smashin great ole daddy-o!

Loving the love you're givin them...:smile2:

Bibi


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## Lots to Learn

turnera said:


> That's because you haven't read No More Mr Nice Guy yet, to learn what you should have learned growing up. It will suit you well in the future. Please read it.
> 
> Question, though - the kids are staying with you, right? Right? That is ONE thing to put your foot down about.


Yes the kids are with me until closenon the new house. Then its 50/50.


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## Marc878

I suspect you'll be energized after winning this battle. You'll gain strength from this now use it.

Tell the kids why she's moving out. They need to know who you are and what you stand for. They will be adults soon enough and this will be a good life lesson. Truth and honesty over lies and deceit.

This may not be over by a long shot. When the dream time ends you have to be in control.

Stay on the offensive. Never ever let up. Full exposure now will be your biggest ally.

Keep them reeling backwards. 

I'm pretty proud of you right now!!!!!!


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## Marc878

*Re: A Sincere Thank Youx*



Bibi1031 said:


> You're a smashin great ole daddy-o!
> 
> Loving the love you're givin them...:smile2:
> 
> Bibi


Drink straight out of the bottle tonight. You don't need a glass😏

Besides it'll be less dishes you have to wash.


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## happyman64

Way to go LtoL.

Enjoy your dinner.

And get some sleep.

You deserve it and need it.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Marc878 said:


> Perfect!!!!
> 
> You can be the doormat babysitter.
> 
> Maybe you could pick up some batteries for WW's toys too!!!
> 
> I'm sure OM would appreciate that.


It was hardly doormat babysitting to look after my OWN children because their other parent had no interest in them. I'd much rather have been looking after them myself than putting them in the hands of someone who RESENTED them for taking time away from the affair and would have IGNORED them in favour of being constantly on the phone or texting. Or worse still, inviting the AP over to MY house while I was out without anything to do except make a point of not being a doormat.

Also, pretending to be a doormat got my ex to waive off me having to pay spousal support, due to being so distracted by the thought of now being able to openly run off and play house with the AP.


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## carmen ohio

turnera said:


> Maybe, but if she refuses to move out, you CAN make her life miserable. Starting with telling her entire family what she's doing. And then inviting people over at all hours of the day, to 'claim' your home as your own. Invite over all the people she hates. Play loud music as much as you want. Keep football games going 24/7 on the tv. Get boxes and start packing up every single thing that she owns and keep on moving those boxes to the garage. She wants to live there? Fine, but she'll be living in boxes in the garage. Remove EVERY piece of lingerie or sex toy you can find and throw them away. When she buys another, throw it away, too. And again. And again. Eventually, she'll just give up and move in with him and leave the kids with you.
> 
> EVERY time she goes out 'with the girls' make sure she comes home to another couple boxes of her stuff boxed up in the garage. Man up.
> 
> No matter what, YOU do NOT move out.


I believe _"turnera"_ is Latin for _"scorched earth."_


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## turnera

lol


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## Marc878

Scorched earth lady does have a certain charm to it.

I like it!!!!!!


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## Marc878

Thanks. So its done, she will stay at her moms until the closing day. So the count down is on.

Was it easier to do than you thought?


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## Marc878

Your future.

Sometimes even in a bad position as you've found yourself in. The future is unclear and full of uncertainty which causes much anxiety. Which is normal. We are all afraid of the unknown.

However, in your case. An affair covered up by insinuations of you being a bad father and husband. Which were all lies. You may not realize yet just how bad you've had it.

I suspect once you rid yourself of this thing (I wouldn't call her a wife) you may be very surprised at how good life can be. 

So embrace the future. Your life can be what YOU make it.

Pulling for you here!!!!!!

PS: I've been there many times in different situations. I know what the hell I'm talking about.


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## Lots to Learn

Marc878 said:


> Your future.
> 
> Sometimes even in a bad position as you've found yourself in. The future is unclear and full of uncertainty which causes much anxiety. Which is normal. We are all afraid of the unknown.
> 
> However, in your case. An affair covered up by insinuations of you being a bad father and husband. Which were all lies. You may not realize yet just how bad you've had it.
> 
> I suspect once you rid yourself of this thing (I wouldn't call her a wife) you may be very surprised at how good life can be.
> 
> So embrace the future. Your life can be what YOU make it.
> 
> Pulling for you here!!!!!!
> 
> PS: I've been there many times in different situations. I know what the hell I'm talking about.


Thanks Marc,

I am truley looking forward to making a new life with the kids.I know it will be tough here and there, but ultimately ill just be happy to be away from the toxic, and destructive affair, and everything that comes with it. 

Looking back, it is so baffling how corrosive a betrayal is. I just cant nor will I ever understand how any person with any empathy could make such a choice. I would never be able to look at myself, or look at my children in the eyes again.


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## Marc878

Nothing and I mean nothing matters to her now except the OM. She even left the kids! That should tell you who she really is. You need to remember that.

Let everyone know what you're dealing with if you haven't. You've covered enough for her as it is.

Stay as far away as possible from that as you can. You'll get over it faster.
Only contact when asolutley necessary. You have nothing to gain from being around that.

Put your thoughts and efforts into making your own life. You can't think about two things at once. That'll help. concentrate on your new place, kids, etc.


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## Marc878

Now that you've got her out of the home I hope you're doing better.

You've made it through another week!


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## Marc878

How's it going LtL?


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## Marc878

You've now been here long enough to see you are not in a unique situation.

It may seem so to you but there are many dealing with similar situations. Take some strength from not being alone.

You can also learn from others so that your journey may be easier than if you didn't have access to this info. 

Good luck to you


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