# guilty, anxious, and just plain scared



## razorhead87 (May 16, 2010)

I am having some serious issues I need help with and just found this forum. I have been married for 15 years - most of it really good. We lost touch the last few years and sorta drifted apart. I found comfort in an old friend I found on facebook who was going thru her own divorce. what started out as causual started to grow more...until finally it became a physical relationship also. I felt guilty and ashamed and knew that I had to end the relationship - I have been praying alot and God literally spoke to me and told me to go and be with my family and not see this OW. I know - sounds hokey, but it really happened - plain as day. I struggle with anxiety very much and I do not know how to cope with this. I know that if my wife knew the truth she would leave me and I cannot think of life without her or my kids. I am scared to death to be alone and know that I have caused serious issues. I confessed that I had an emotional affair and we are working thru that - but the guilt of what I have really done is eating me alive. I know that if she knew she would surely leave me and I am terrified of what to do. I cant sleep or eat even the most mundane thing is difficult. I really want us to work and am so very sorry for my infidelity, but I know i cannot tell her, it would kill her and us. I am scared for my kids...i do not want them to grow up in a divorced house like I did. I just re read all of this and it is really not coming out like i want it to, but it is the best I can do right now. I am physically sick about all of this. all contact with the OW is over. I will end for now - just wanted to try and see what kind of advice was out there for me - I am very overwhelmed and honestly dont know how I get thru each day


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

It's a very tough thing to get through, and I truly wish no one ever had to go through either side of infidelity.

Couple of things that can help you get through a very tough time.

1) You are letting your imagination rule you. I'd advise you to take some time and calmly think this through. Ask yourself 'what's the worst that could happen?' and then get the REAL answers for yourself.

2) You will NEVER lose your kids. You are their father, and in the worst case scenario, you will still have half custody of them. That is, provided you are not molesting them, or abusing them, which does not seem to be the case.

3) Your unwillingness to tell your wife the truth is a form of controlling her. You are manipulating her environment so that she is not able to make her own decisions. 

4) You do know what to do. In fact, I'd advise that you read 2 Samuel 12:1-25. 

Much of the stress you are experienced is because you are imagining the future, and are doing all you can to avoid it. At the same time you are lying to your wife! 

Trust her. Give her the respect she deserves to make a choice herself. Ask her forgiveness, and tell her you love her, and are willing to do what it takes to earn her trust, etc. Put all of the cards on the table, and let her be the spouse you married. Don't subjugate her to your control in order to protect yourself! 

She may very well grow quite angry, and even go through a period of time where she withdraws from you. That may be the consequence you pay. On the other hand, if you have a strong relationship, if you do find ways to love each other, there is a good chance that things will be worked out over time. 

Treat her with love, respect and honor. She already knows something is wrong.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Razor, it appears that you are a Christian. Taylorpete is a very very wise man. She absolutely deserves to know the truth. The reason you are feeling this way is because you still lied to her and told her it was only an emotional affair. She needs the truth. Keeping this information from her is only serving yourself. I know you are scared. I know you are getting sick thinking about it. If you want your marriage to work than lies and secrets will only destroy you and your marriage. Listen to him. He gives without a doubt the best advice about infidelity on this website. Again, you mention praying and God spoke to you. God is speaking volumnes to you right now and that is why you feel the way you do.


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## thetruth (May 15, 2010)

She doesn't need to know a thing about this and if you do tell her you will hurt her terribly, lose your family and kids and your life will be a mess. The problem is that you are suffering under this incredible weight of Christian guilt (no one does guilt better than the Christians after all) and it is paralyzing you and making you miserable, please don't buy into that racket, its not going to help you resolve this at all. At the same time, you are clearly a man of faith and you feel God has spoken to you and given you direction so what I advise you to do is to ignore all the religious dogma and focus on what that message was...you say he told you to 'go and be with my family' so that is EXACTLY what you need to do. Moreover, to assuage your guilt and reset your balance you must take penance, and your penance for what you have done is to completely and utterly rededicate yourself to your wife and family. You say you've drifted apart from your wife, you need to rekindle that relationship and dedicate yourself to her and your children. It won't be easy and you won't be able to do it all at once, you'll need to work at over the next year or two. Most importantly you need to forgive yourself and focus on being better not bemoaning your fate and getting sucked down by guilt


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

This has nothing to do with 'Christian' guilt - it has to do with guilty feelings that any person who feels bad about lying to their spouse would feel. Some people actually value their partners.

And to urge someone to lie to their spouse in order to keep the marriage intact is blatant manipulative behavior. It treats the person being lied to as a second class person, who's opinions, feelings and actions come second to the opinions, feelings and actions of the person doing the lying. A controlling person, who lies to another in order to keep their own lives comfortable, who manipulates other people into doing what they want, and into responding how they (the liar) want the others to feel is a person who is not worth giving love to. 

It reveals an absolute lack of respect and honor that should be given to the spouse. Now doing this out of fear of the unknown is understandable - even if it is wrong.

But to advocate it as a standard of marriage, as the way in which to live with your spouse, reveals a person who most likely should not be married at all, and should never consider it, until they learn to consider that other people are valuable. 

A marriage that is built on lies and dishonesty will fall apart sooner or later. And the longer one lies to the one person to whom truth is due more than any other person, the worse that fall will be. The more pain, suffering and anguish will be experienced by both people.

You don't have to be a Christian to value truth and honesty. But to have a good marriage, you sure need to. REBUILD the marriage on truth. Don't try to hide the rubble and try to balance it on rotten timbers. Get rid of the rot, sweep out the rubbish, and start over with a clean slate.


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## razorhead87 (May 16, 2010)

I told her last night - much anger and much ..really everything....I am heartbroken and dont know what is next....I will have more to say when I can - jsut cannot function right now - Tanelornpete - you have been very helpful and wise - i appreciate it very much


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Goodmorning, 
Hang in there Razorhead87,
Takes things a minute at a time, that's all you can do right now...
Just keep saying to your wife what a mistake you have made and how much you want to fix this and re-build your relationship with her.....Tell her a million times if you have to......
good luck and come here for help......lots of great people and advice.......


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

RH87,

I am sure you are feeling anxious having told her, but I agree it was the right move. Since you have now changed your story (from EA to PA) she is likely wondering what else you are hiding from her...this will be a setback from any progress you have made but hang in there and keep talking to her...reassure her you wanted to restart your marriage with honesty and although you were afraid the truth would drive her away, you respect her enough to want her to make that decision for herself and in the end want her happiness.


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## thetruth (May 15, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> This has nothing to do with 'Christian' guilt - it has to do with guilty feelings that any person who feels bad about lying to their spouse would feel. Some people actually value their partners.
> 
> And to urge someone to lie to their spouse in order to keep the marriage intact is blatant manipulative behavior. It treats the person being lied to as a second class person, who's opinions, feelings and actions come second to the opinions, feelings and actions of the person doing the lying. A controlling person, who lies to another in order to keep their own lives comfortable, who manipulates other people into doing what they want, and into responding how they (the liar) want the others to feel is a person who is not worth giving love to.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the sermon reverend, that's some powerful stuff. You've effectively taken most of what I said and twisted it out of context to suit yourself, that's about what I expected but in the interest of clearing a few things up:

1)I never once suggested he lie to his wife, treat her as a second class person or manipulate her. Those are all words you put in my mouth. I suggested that he keep his mouth shut for now, since it will only compound an already bad situation. Rather, I suggested he make it his own personal penance to be the best father and husband he can be...actions always speak louder than words.
2)I never advocated deception as a standard for marriage. The point you were supposed to take home was that every situation is different, these pretty catch-all phrases don't suit every situation, you always need to weigh the relative pros and cons of coming clean on something of this magnitude. The deed is already done, there is no taking back the infidelity, but it doesn't follow that you have to throw your whole marriage out the window, tear apart your family and make your wife and children miserable because of some make-believe moral code or something. The man clearly knows how wrong he has acted and has apparently received direction from on high. Let him decide when and if he wants to confess to his wife. Sometimes you need to use a little common sense and pick your moment for revelations like these, and if you've grown apart from your spouse and feel it is tenuous already then what do you hope to accomplish by throwing another log on the blazing fire? On the other hand, if he rededicates himself to the family he is proving through his actions how much he cares for them. Once he has established that, he should be able to confess the truth and not risk throwing away 15 years of marriage



razorhead87 said:


> I told her last night - much anger and much ..really everything....I am heartbroken and dont know what is next....I will have more to say when I can - jsut cannot function right now - Tanelornpete - you have been very helpful and wise - i appreciate it very much


good luck to you, I really hope it doesn't blow up in your face...if it doesn't, then my advice on penance still applies though it will be a hard path for you


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## losinglove (Dec 8, 2009)

thetruth said:


> 1)I never once suggested he lie to his wife ...





thetruth said:


> 2)I never advocated deception as a standard for marriage...


He already lied to his wife, so withholding the information is just lying more. You never directly said lie to her, but it is implied.

Not being honest is deception, you may not advocate it, but you are not saying is the wrong thing to do either.


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## thetruth (May 15, 2010)

losinglove said:


> He already lied to his wife, so withholding the information is just lying more. You never directly said lie to her, but it is implied.
> 
> Not being honest is deception, you may not advocate it, but you are not saying is the wrong thing to do either.


he already cheated and he already lied...not doing anything is called 'status quo' not 'lying more'. Like it or not telling the truth, while admirable, is not always the wisest course of action


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thetruth, what is a marriage if you do not share complete honesty with each other? Are you not supposed to be each other's best friend?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I never once suggested he lie to his wife, treat her as a second class person or manipulate her. Those are all words you put in my mouth. I suggested that he keep his mouth shut for now, since it will only compound an already bad situation. Rather, I suggested he make it his own personal penance to be the best father and husband he can be...actions always speak louder than words.


Wrong. Your words: " She doesn't need to know a thing about this and if you do tell her you will hurt her terribly, lose your family and kids and your life will be a mess..."

Unless you are talking in code, or using the reverse meanings of the words you use, in _that specific sentence_ you told this man NOT to tell her. Since he had denied a physical affair, this means that you are advising him to lie to his wife. So this sentence:



> I never once suggested he lie to his wife...


...is directly contradicted by your words in your previous post. It is not surprising that you would 'suggest' (that is, give a hint, lead to a conclusion) that he lie. You did it right here. It appears to be a common theme for you. 

Moreover, if you try to twist your words to avoid the clear and irrefutable conclusions of your post, it must be pointed out that your words: 

"...I suggested that he keep his mouth shut for now, since it will only compound an already bad situation..." 

You NEVER used the words '_for now_ in the post to which I replied. If you had used that phrase, my response would have been quite different. Clearly and simply, you advised him that she NEED NOT KNOW. If you think I am twisting your words, let me re-quote them, verbatim:



> She doesn't need to know a thing about this and if you do tell her you will hurt her terribly, lose your family and kids and your life will be a mess.


Note again, NO USE of the term 'for now'. The clear implication is that he should not tell her he slept with someone else.

Again, 



> I never once suggested he...treat her as a second class person or manipulate her...


You tell him



> ...if you do tell her you will hurt her terribly, lose your family and kids and your life will be a mess.


Manipulating a person means that you manage the situation so that they will act in a way you want them to. Look up the definition if you doubt my word. You advise him to lie to her because if he tells the truth there will be pain for her, him, etc. By LYING, by REFRAINING from telling the truth, you advise him to create a situation where those things DO NOT HAPPEN. 

You advised him to manipulate her to choose other than she might if she had the truth.

You advise him to consider her a second class person in that you advise him to avoid telling her the truth - because she is not adult enough, or mature enough, or in some way capable of handling the truth. You advise him to place HIS security, comfort and wants above those of his wife, who is supposed to be lied to instead - to 'save her some pain'.



> I never advocated deception as a standard for marriage.


Actually, you do right here:



> The point you were supposed to take home was that every situation is different, these pretty catch-all phrases don't suit every situation, you always need to weigh the relative pros and cons of coming clean on something of this magnitude.


In other words, there are times when it is wiser to lie to your spouse - especially if you think the outcome might be unpleasant. 'Look at the situation - what would be the more comfortable outcome? - if it is lying, pick that. If it is telling the truth, pick that.' Clearly a standard.



> The deed is already done, there is no taking back the infidelity, but it doesn't follow that you have to throw your whole marriage out the window, tear apart your family and make your wife and children miserable because of some make-believe moral code or something.


Absolutely right. That's why we argue that the way to create a healthy relationship is to build it on transparent honesty. Lies tear apart, and the longer they maintained, the more damage they do. You cannot build a relationship on rubble. Unless you go through the pain of ridding the marriage of disease, the disease will cause more damage. 

A marriage, to be healthy MUST be built on honesty and commitment.

Suppose he decided NOT to tell his wife until she felt more comfortable around him. Then one day, when he thinks, now she won't leave me if I tell her, he drops this bomb. 

She will immediately realize that he was DELIBERATELY lying to her for all this time. And you somehow think this will HELP the marriage? How long will it take her, after finding out THIS little nugget, to begin to trust him again...if ever?

Your method is similar to a surgeon not wanting to remove the cancer because of the pain of recovery. Leaving the cancer in causes the disease to affect more and more, over time doing more damage than if it had just been removed and the patient undergone the pain of recovery.



> The man clearly knows how wrong he has acted and has apparently received direction from on high. Let him decide when and if he wants to confess to his wife. Sometimes you need to use a little common sense and pick your moment for revelations like these, and if you've grown apart from your spouse and feel it is tenuous already then what do you hope to accomplish by throwing another log on the blazing fire?


Again, advising the use of manipulation, lying and control to make the LIARS life more comfortable. 



> On the other hand, if he rededicates himself to the family he is proving through his actions how much he cares for them. Once he has established that, he should be able to confess the truth and not risk throwing away 15 years of marriage


This would have been useful in your first post, because it would have changed the response I made to you. I disagree, but on other grounds, and I beleive my reason is capable and useful.

But since you attack instead of discuss, I tend to view that last statement as a means of squirming out of an impossible predicament your words put you into. Develop a habit of honesty and you'll come across less bitter, deceptive and mean.

----------------
Now playing: Yes - That, That Is
via FoxyTunes


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## losinglove (Dec 8, 2009)

How many not coming completely clean will your other half take? 5, 10, 10000?

Why not just be honest all the time and not worry about it? This is supposed to be the person you trust the most in your life. Will rh87's marriage work out? I don't know. but if it does it will be much better than if this came out after she "thought" everything was cleared up. Plus, I just about guarantee there would be a lesser chance of things working out the second time around.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

First, this thread is for the poster, razorhead87, and not to badmouth Christianity. If you want to badmouth Christianity, please start your own thread and those who want to join you or debate you will post to you...there. On THIS thread, the poster, rh87, indicated that he was praying and God spoke to him, so clearly the poster is open to a reply with religious content. If you don't like religious content, reply to the poster's issue in a respectful manner to him without disrespecting the very thing the original poster indicated they found some value in. Then don't be cranky when someone catches your logic errors points out your own words.  

Second, razorhead87, I for one am proud of you. I'm sure your wife is going to be very hurt and upset by learning the truth, but you also just said to her that you think of her highly enough to trust her with everything and consider her mature enough to handle it. Now, that's not a guarantee that she'll stay. I don't want to minimize this: she has the moral right to leave you now if she wants because you broke the vows. However, just because she has the right doesn't mean she has to EXERCISE that right. I would offer a few practical suggestions: 

1) You virtually will not be able to apologize or reassure her enough. Everything that was a foundation she built her world on just shook and broke, so give her some time. I would be willing to bet there will be a small period of time where she "loses her mind" and behaves uncharacteristically just out of some grief and anger. If that happens, it is normal so it's okay. 

2) Immediately tell her everything she wants to know and fully. Do not say "I don't know" or "I don't remember" in an attempt to minimize what happened. If you've been trying to forget and really don't remember, you can tell her that but then do your best to tell her all of the truth. Answer fully. 

3) Give her access to ALL of your accounts: email, facebook, cell phone, etc. Delete any accounts you used for the affair period. And give her complete freedom to verify your honesty, check up on you, snoop, and investigate. YOU will feel a bit like your privacy is being invaded and you're being controlled, but in real life you're probably not. In real life it's probably the fastest way you can prove yourself and earn back her trust. Even if it's not "pretty" let her see it all and again-- be open.

4) Please go to Love Dare and start that as soon as possible. It would be nice if you can get the Love Dare book but if not...start there.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

It's a shame for you that I've spent many, many hours here helping people actually recover their marriages and that people here know both my intent and my message. I have no book to sell and I'm here to speak to razorhead87. Hereafter I'll speak to razorhead87 only since this is his thread and we're here to deal with his issue and his marriage, not a troll.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Troll on ignore list and reported. I did want to point out that this troll objected to a post I wrote; I assume mainly because I quoted a Scripture passage to a person who was obviously operating from a Christian background. Not only did this person not investigate why I used that particular passage, but he then went on to object to the advice I gave to the original poster of this thread. 

Now I don't care if someone objects to my posts; I am more than willing to take the time to show WHY I believe such a principle is one I stand for. But troll simply wanted to disagree. This is evident in the two following posts to me: in each one, when I pointed out the reasons why his viewpoint would result in the opposite of what he was trying to accomplish, in both cases, he responded by saying 'that's not what I said.' Well, what he said is posted on the site, and it is quite easy to look at his posts.

In essence, his argument (which is a common one) is that the end justifies the means. If it makes your more comfortable to lie to your spouse, do it, because if you didn't lie, you'd be uncomfortable. This can be carried out to any length, including justification of murder, etc., and given this troll's objection to moral principles, it is evident that he could have no logical objection to such an act.

I am saddened that such people feel such hopelessness, anger and despair that they are willing to attack people with whom they disagree. Open debate, the idea of offering people options from which to freely choose, is a hallmark of intelligence and wisdom. 

However, I choose not to waste my time arguing with closed minds. My views and what I stand for should be pretty obvious to anyone who reads on this site much at all - if you disagree with me, feel free to let me know. I only ask that if it comes down to it, the arguments offered to refute me be done with pure logic, sans insult, innuendo and diatribe. I am not perfect, I can always learn - and in fact, need to. 

razorhead87 - I believe you stand a much better than average 'chance' (something I do NOT believe in) of working out your marriage and moving it into a much higher realm. You have done very well, demonstrated courage rather than cowardice, and principle rather than gratification. Good job. There is much hope for you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And may I add that that the two of them seem to have some of the best, most helpful advice of anyone on this forum.


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

First of all razorhead, I would like to commend you for your honesty.That took a tremendous amount of courage,seeing that you suffer from anxiety, and your biggest fear is probably losing your wife and kids. She maybe may be angry, and/upset with you now, but she will eventually appreciate the fact that at least you were honest with her. From a woman's perspective, and from my personal experience, I feel that the lying and deception is so much more hurtful than the actually infedelity, be it emotional or physical. For example when you are being deceived (lied to ), and you know it, you question everything....There is absolutely no trust, and nobody wants to live like that.And if you are the deceiver, you live in constant fear of being "found out", having to lie and consistantly hurt the one you love. And no one wants that either......it is exactly like an infectionous disease eating away at both of you.

And believe me, if you admitted to the emotional affair, and you guys were "working things out" then your wife probably knew(or at least had a feeling)that you wernt being totally honest with her. So that detail probably didnt come as a "total shock" to her. Of corse it hurt, but not nearly as bad as deception.

So dont give up.If you truly want to repair/rebuild your marraige,continue to take the advice of tanelornpete and his wife affaircare. i feel that they do have you and your wife's best interest at heart. No, the road from here on is not going to be easy.
but you are no doubt a lot stronger than you believe. and i believe that you will do everything in your power to try and save your marriage. and even if it doesnt work out for you i think it will be well worth the effort you put into saving it. at least you can say you did all you could. i wish you the best!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

thetruth said:


> he already cheated and he already lied...not doing anything is called 'status quo' not 'lying more'. Like it or not telling the truth, while admirable, is not always the wisest course of action


sorry, it is called a lie of omission.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

razorhead, how are things going?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I would like to know also, how you are doing. For what its worth I think the chance of you being able to fully commit yourself to your wife is better now that there isn't the fear of her finding anything out. She already knows. It takes a lot of the fear away and now you can work with open and honest conversation without having to remember any lies that may have been told. I would suggest that you definately tell her several times a day how much she means to you. Best of luck!


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## razorhead87 (May 16, 2010)

Wife came home from work yesterday a total mess - we cried and talked until the kids came home and then retreated to our room and talked some more - she is very sad - hurt angry - and also mad - she had alot to say - she is having most problems getting the visual pictures of me and the OW out of her head. Said that she feels like i cut her heart in half and she is bleeding out. inbetween all that - i did see some glimme of hope that we could work on things - but I am still a mess and cannot possible even fathom the idea of being without her or our kids - i cant even function thinking about that. this morning she sad that she was starting to enter the "mad" stage....worried about that. we are going to see our Pastor today after work. Thanks to all that have left encouraging messages - it really does mean alot. there are some wise people on here.


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## losinglove (Dec 8, 2009)

take it minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.

the feelings both you and her are having are normal, you just need to work through them. You did the right thing, now you can move on and have a strong and loving marriage.

Good luck.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

If it helps any, my moods kinda cycled. I would be mad, then really sad, then hopeful and back to mad all over again. Its a lot to take in, so just bear in mind that she will need an amount of time to cope and make decisions, and that time frame is never the same for two people. Hang in there, and definately keep working together for the marriage. There are some wonderful people here that can help you make positive steps in your marriage.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

razorhead87~

You made a mistake--a GIGANTIC one that has indeed hurt her to the core of her being. But she has something that many loyal spouses here would literally give their lives for: a disloyal spouse who admits they made a mistake and they were wrong, who values her enough to tell her the real truth even when it was hard and hurt, and who loves her and chooses HER. Very few loyal spouses have a partner who even sees their mistake, much less admits it. Even fewer have a spouse who will look them in the eye and tell them the truth--instead they get coverups and lies and discover little emotional time bombs all over. And EVEN FEWER have a spouse who demonstrates by their actions that they choose them--most wonder literally for years if their disloyal returned because they had no other options...or was it due to love? 

I know she is upset, hurt, even raging at times! She has good reasonable reason to be. But you gave her the ultimate compliment. You just said to her that you valued her enough to let her control her own life and that you choose HER.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

:iagree:

A mistake, even as big as this one, is much easier to forgive if the offending party shows true remorse. Be there for her and let her feel what she is feeling.


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