# Is it the end???



## gigi888 (Oct 6, 2013)

I am new to this forum. Let me see where I should start with my story. I been married for almost 7 years. The marriage had its unresolved problems from both parties. I was scare to show affection (i.e. give him hugs and kisses) and he is uncomfortable with communicating with me on his feelings. We been to some counseling and things will get better so we stop. Eventually, we both will fall back to our normal self.

Well, the past months have been hell for the both of us. We just purchased a new house in April, move in in May, his brother and my dog were diagnosed with cancer, they both passed away in Sep, and my husband left me on Oct. 1st. This came as a shock to me. I knew things were not great but had no clue it was bad enough to give up. His explaination was his brother's death made him realize that life is short and he needs to be happy and happy equal not having me in the picture because I bring too much pain. I tired to ask him to give us one more chance but he said he just do not see how I can change.

During all this, I realized what a selfish person I am and how much soul searching is needed on my part to better myself. Yes, I still want the marriage to work but the only thing I can do at this point is to better myself. After he moved out, he did tell me he is very confused about what he should do and need some time to himself to think things through.

The past few days had a lot of ups and downs. One min I feel good about everything and the next I feel so sad without him. I keep on searching the internet to find out if this is really the end.

Friday, he came over to the house unannounced. He said he was there to pick up some package that came for him. We started having a good conversation about what we have been doing (nothing about our marriage). I asked if he wanted to sit down and talk. He answered no but continue to stand there as if he do want to say something. Argh, life is so confusing. Finally, he was able to pick up his stuff and go back to his hotel. I am still at the house trying to better myself for myself and at the same time wonder if he will even come back. I wish he will tell me this is the end and get a divorce lawyer involve so I can start closing this door. 

In your experience, when will a man finally make up his mind? I will never end this marriage like this because I know I have not given it is chance and I know I can change to better myself. How much time do I need to give him given there is no arguement, no affair, nothing that really sparked this except he is still in grief? Also, is this really sound like it is over? Did I make the biggest mistake in my life to not realize that I should have try harder in the past instead of just trying half-heartedly?


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## 2005tahoe (Aug 23, 2013)

gigi888 said:


> I am new to this forum. Let me see where I should start with my story. I been married for almost 7 years. The marriage had its unresolved problems from both parties. I was scare to show affection (i.e. give him hugs and kisses) and he is uncomfortable with communicating with me on his feelings. We been to some counseling and things will get better so we stop. Eventually, we both will fall back to our normal self.
> 
> Well, the past months have been hell for the both of us. We just purchased a new house in April, move in in May, his brother and my dog were diagnosed with cancer, they both passed away in Sep, and my husband left me on Oct. 1st. This came as a shock to me. I knew things were not great but had no clue it was bad enough to give up. His explaination was his brother's death made him realize that life is short and he needs to be happy and happy equal not having me in the picture because I bring too much pain. I tired to ask him to give us one more chance but he said he just do not see how I can change.
> 
> ...


I feel your pain. My wife left me on June 2nd after blindsiding me. We had some financial issues and some lack of affection on my part but no reason to just walk out. I have only seen her twice in court and absolutely NO communication from her. It took her just 2 weeks to serve me with separation papers. 

I have so many unanswered questions how someone can walk away without saying anything. At least an answer as a decient human being. 

I am 4 months in and it still stings but you have to look after yourself and take care of yourself. Easier said than done as I am still having a hard time. 

Look up the 180 rule and stick to it, its about you not getting him back. I have struggles with this myself and have to stay focused. 

We are here for you!!


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## gigi888 (Oct 6, 2013)

I am trying my hardest to focus on myself, but there are times when my mind wonder. I really want to change myself this time because I realized how selfish I have been and I do not like that about myself. However, it is also so painful to think that our marriage will not last because I was too late to come to this realization. 

Thanks for the supporting words but can you provide more information on 180 rules as I cannot seem to find it on searches.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

@gigi888
How have you been selfish? 

My husband and I separated, I asked for it and he agreed instantly. 
I also think I was wrong, and wish I was back with him. He told me to respect his decision and let him resolve his issues first.
We both have very difficult issues to deal with.
The best advice I can give you is to focus on yourself, respect his decision to be alone, give it time. This is going to be a painful road but you will survive. Work on yourself.
See a therapist if you can afford one.

Read this:
DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?

I has helped me tremendously. I used to think I was being selfish too, but I wasn't. It is a sad read but very enlightening.

Here is a link to the 180.
SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for Those Affected by Infidelity

Good luck gigi888
and please keep posting, it helps the healing!


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Gigi:

Are you seeing an individual counselor to deal with whatever stuff you are going through? It may help a lot to have a professional help you through this time, and to deal with issues you may not yet realize are issues for you. My IC has been a tremendous help over the past 8 months of separation.

My advice so far is to let your husband have space, but try to get into counseling for separation: set some terms for this separation such as whether either of you will see other people, finances, length (or at least length of time before you reevaluate the terms), how much contact you will have, when and where, etc.

Doing that would help take some of the assumptions out of the picture and give your mind some peace during this time that is going to be really hard.

Yes, keep working on yourself...IC would be a good start.


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## gigi888 (Oct 6, 2013)

I am not got actively going to see an IC. I have been to many IC and do not think they help with the root of my issue. For some reason, I feel like I need to address it myself as only I can help myself. I can be majorly wrong but that is what I need at the moment. If my emotion goes too crazy, I will ask for help but right now I want to see if I can address all my baggage from the past.

Yes, I been selfish in the relationship. This is the source of my pain. I know I made a mistake and is unable to fix the marriage as he have lost faith that I can change.

It is hard because I do not know anything. I do not know how long it will take him to make a decision, I dont know when he will call me again, when he will come back to the house. Just feel so out of control due to the unknown. Analysising every little thing that have happened since he left. OMG, my brain is about to explode. I keep on telling myself to use this time to better myself but sometimes my brain do not listen and keep analysising .


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

gigi888 said:


> I am not got actively going to see an IC. I have been to many IC and do not think they help with the root of my issue. For some reason, I feel like I need to address it myself as only I can help myself. I can be majorly wrong but that is what I need at the moment. If my emotion goes too crazy, I will ask for help but right now I want to see if I can address all my baggage from the past.
> 
> Yes, I been selfish in the relationship. This is the source of my pain. I know I made a mistake and is unable to fix the marriage as he have lost faith that I can change.
> 
> It is hard because I do not know anything. I do not know how long it will take him to make a decision, I dont know when he will call me again, when he will come back to the house. Just feel so out of control due to the unknown. Analysising every little thing that have happened since he left. OMG, my brain is about to explode. I keep on telling myself to use this time to better myself but sometimes my brain do not listen and keep analysising .


I had been to IC in the past, years ago for some depression and anxiety issues. I didn't find it was helping so I wrote it off.

Recently after my wife left me I began going back to IC. It's one of the best decisions I've ever made. I would recommend trying it out again.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

WantWifeBack said:


> I had been to IC in the past, years ago for some depression and anxiety issues. I didn't find it was helping so I wrote it off.
> 
> Recently after my wife left me I began going back to IC. It's one of the best decisions I've ever made. I would recommend trying it out again.


I agree, it's definitely worth trying again. Most of the progress you make will happen outside of your sessions - on your own - but the counselor will work as a mentor to help you get there.

Also, see if your husband will go to MC with you while you're separated. Compared to what else I've seen here on TAM, your problems don't seem insurmountable. It's going to take a lot of work on your part, and you're going to have so make a sincere effort towards a life change - but he's clearly going to have to make some changes, as well.

Honestly, if he's not willing to make his own changes, it's not going to matter what you do, in regards to your marriage. You need to focus on fixing your own issues for yourself, and this may fix your marriage. It may not. But the only shot you have is if you fix yourself first.

If you get your husband to go to MC with you, he may begin to recognize that he needs to change as well, and maybe the two of you can come through this together.

Definitely check out the 180, it will be good for you, no matter what happens; and if this marriage is truly broken, the 180 will help you get through it: The Healing Heart: The 180

Other people have recommended the following books (I haven't read them myself, but they're on my list):


His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage Fifteenth Anniversary Edition: Willard F. Harley Jr.: 9780800717889: Amazon.com: Books
Love Busters: Protecting Your Marriage from Habits That Destroy Romantic Love: Willard F. Jr. Harley: 9780800718947: Amazon.com: Books
Divorce Busting: A Step-by-Step Approach to Making Your Marriage Loving Again: Michele Weiner-Davis: 9780671797256: Amazon.com: Books
How Can I Get Through to You? Closing the Intimacy Gap Between Men and Women: Terrence Real: 9780684868783: Amazon.com: Books

If your marriage is to be fixed, it begins with you. That doesn't mean that the responsibility fall solely on your shoulders - it is a shared effort and responsibility - but someone needs to get the ball rolling. Good luck to you!


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Yes, try to get him to agree to MC, and get some kind of separation agreement in place. I wish my wife and I had done that at the start. It would have lessened the tension between us and relieved my mind to some degree. The past three months, since we have set something down about it that we agree on, has been much better, and we are about to renew and revise our agreement for more contact. 

The point of separation counseling is not the same as marriage counseling. It is not about getting people back together. The point is to help each spouse manage the pain of separation so that the two of you do not do harm to yourselves (individually) by doing things you might regret. So during such a session you-all would write out some kind of boundary agreement. This kind of therapy is designed to take tension out of the separation so that the two of you do not make assumptions about one another's actions and then react accordingly. In that way it helps to manage pain and allows each person to focus more clearly on oneself and one's own issues rather than on what the other person may or may not be doing or why one of us is acting a certain way. For instance, if the two of you agreed to no contact for a certain amount of time or something, there would be no question as to why you didn't call or he didn't email, it is simply what you-all agreed to do. It takes away the room for assumptions on lots of things. We could deal with issues like how you-all will act toward one another at unplanned events, expectations on contact, etc.

The other reason such a session is helpful is because it helps to preserve the possibility of reconciliation someday by having an agreed upon process for separation that takes tension out of the relationship and the pain of separation. It takes out some of the wondering and nervousness, and resulting anger that can happen. If down the road you two want to reconcile, such a session can be helpful. However, to stress again, the point of separation counseling is not to preserve a marriage or to guarantee you-all would get back together, but to merely preserve the possibility.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Arendt said:


> Yes, try to get him to agree to MC, and get some kind of separation agreement in place. I wish my wife and I had done that at the start. It would have lessened the tension between us and relieved my mind to some degree. The past three months, since we have set something down about it that we agree on, has been much better, and we are about to renew and revise our agreement for more contact.
> 
> The point of separation counseling is not the same as marriage counseling. It is not about getting people back together. The point is to help each spouse manage the pain of separation so that the two of you do not do harm to yourselves (individually) by doing things you might regret. So during such a session you-all would write out some kind of boundary agreement. This kind of therapy is designed to take tension out of the separation so that the two of you do not make assumptions about one another's actions and then react accordingly. In that way it helps to manage pain and allows each person to focus more clearly on oneself and one's own issues rather than on what the other person may or may not be doing or why one of us is acting a certain way. For instance, if the two of you agreed to no contact for a certain amount of time or something, there would be no question as to why you didn't call or he didn't email, it is simply what you-all agreed to do. It takes away the room for assumptions on lots of things. We could deal with issues like how you-all will act toward one another at unplanned events, expectations on contact, etc.
> 
> The other reason such a session is helpful is because it helps to preserve the possibility of reconciliation someday by having an agreed upon process for separation that takes tension out of the relationship and the pain of separation. It takes out some of the wondering and nervousness, and resulting anger that can happen. If down the road you two want to reconcile, such a session can be helpful. However, to stress again, the point of separation counseling is not to preserve a marriage or to guarantee you-all would get back together, but to merely preserve the possibility.


Super important! I wish we had something in writing when we separated; we verbally agreed on our separation "rules," and my STBXH conveniently "mis-remembered" them so he could do whatever he wanted, rather than working on himself/his issues/our marriage. He all but made reconciliation an impossibility because of his actions.

Not trying to make this about me, just wanted to give you an example of why you should take Arendt's advice.


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## gigi888 (Oct 6, 2013)

I want to sit down and really talk about our marriage but he is not ready to do so. He just keep saying he do not see how it will work because I cannot change. Right now is so hard because I do not know what is the next step so I am trying my best to better myself. I hope soon he will let me know that he is willing to start talking about our marriage.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Alright. time for some tough words I suppose. You are focusing too much on him. Working on yourself is your primary concern right now. Do not beg, do not plead, do not chase, do not call incessantly, do not text incessantly, do not email, do not be the first to contact him. He left. He wants space. Let him have it. Work on yourself. Start acting and living in a manner that shows your life and attitude are something different than what you have been. it means developing new habits: if your problem has been isolation, get out and make friends and network. It it has been codependency and people pleasing; stick up for your self. If it has been selfishness, start learning how to become other-focused. That is the point of what some people call a "180." The point is not no contact as some folks may suggest here. The point is to change yourself and your life so you can make it out the other side of this very tough ride you are going through a better person, a more balanced person who can take the ups and downs of life.

Suggest a separation counseling session to him. Give the reasons I gave for it. Let him decide if that is something he is interested in doing. If not, get on with your life and working on yourself. If so, then still get on with your life, but see in that reception an opportunity for each of you to have space to work on yourselves without feeling pressured by the other. 

Also, are you sure there is not another woman in the picture? I hate to bring this up, but you need to know. Are there signs of an EA or PA? Do you know what those are even?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Arendt said:


> Alright. time for some tough words I suppose. You are focusing too much on him. Working on yourself is your primary concern right now. Do not beg, do not plead, do not chase, do not call incessantly, do not text incessantly, do not email, do not be the first to contact him. He left. He wants space. Let him have it. Work on yourself. Start acting and living in a manner that shows your life and attitude are something different than what you have been. it means developing new habits: if your problem has been isolation, get out and make friends and network. It it has been codependency and people pleasing; stick up for your self. If it has been selfishness, start learning how to become other-focused. That is the point of what some people call a "180." The point is not no contact as some folks may suggest here. The point is to change yourself and your life so you can make it out the other side of this very tough ride you are going through a better person, a more balanced person who can take the ups and downs of life.
> 
> Suggest a separation counseling session to him. Give the reasons I gave for it. Let him decide if that is something he is interested in doing. If not, get on with your life and working on yourself. If so, then still get on with your life, but see in that reception an opportunity for each of you to have space to work on yourselves without feeling pressured by the other.
> 
> Also, are you sure there is not another woman in the picture? I hate to bring this up, but you need to know. Are there signs of an EA or PA? Do you know what those are even?


:iagree: with all of this.


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## gigi888 (Oct 6, 2013)

I am not contacting him at all except for basic stuff like "you got a package and stuff like that." I been trying to not think about it but it is so darn hard. 

No, there are no other person in the picture. At least that is what he is telling me and knowing him I do believe that.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Well, Gigi, men don't usually just move out unless there is something going on....there are jsut too many stories on here of people trusting their spouse and not thinking there is another person involved when there is. 

If you marriage has been that bad, then there is a good chance he's getting a connection somewhere else with somebody who "understands" him in the absence of it at home (or so he feels). 

There are ways to try and find out...check your phone records first for texts and calls to any number you don't recognize. Particularly if there are a lot of them. 

Who is paying the bills?


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