# 9 years since she cheated, I still have trouble dealing



## Oregonian (Sep 14, 2012)

Nine years ago, my wife cheated on me with my best friend of 24 years. He had just cut ties with me and had been acting odd in other ways, then was diagnosed as bi-polar. Right after he cut ties with me, my wife tried to fix our friendship and was spending time with him. My wife and I were not doing real well at the time but I didn't see anything that was horribly wrong. Probably my fault there. They ended up spending so much time together, I asked her to please cut back. She didn't. I begged her to stop seeing him. She scoffed at me and they ended up sleeping together, but she denied it for 9 months. Then I think she started to miss us, the family we had. She had told me that she wasn't seeing him at all or talking to him. Her phone rang one day and I grabbed it and answered it. It was him. I stormed out and left for the night. The next day I talked with her and she said she told him not to call her. He called me and wanted to meet with me. I met him and he said they had slept together several times over the 9 months. Everyone was trying to tell me this but I just wouldn't believe she would do that. I went and confronted her. She admitted it but said she wanted us to stay together and that she never wanted to see him again. He called me later that night and asked me if my wife and I were going to stay together and I told him we were going to try and to just butt out and stay away. That night, he stood in front of my house on my lawn and called, wanting to speak to her and I told him no. I heard a loud "pop" and my son came running up and said a man had shot himself in front of the house. He killed himself in front of my kids. I have been through 5 years of therapy and marriage counseling for the both of us. I still seem to have such harsh down times where I can't help but dwell on it all. I stay in a horrible mood during these times and it affects me in my teaching job. I feel in my heart that I have forgiven her but there are times when I still can't believe they did all that they did. She has said "I'm sorry" so many times, she said she isn't going to say it any more and honestly, I don't need to hear it anymore. I just don't know how to stop dwelling on it during these low times. Holidays are the worst as that's when the worst of this happened. We still have good times, but I feel like I ended up as the default guy at times. I don't know how to cope with it any more.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I've read your posts, both of them. You have posted the same history twice and its been about 3 years. There are some differences, but the theme is the same. There are some who advocate "hard work" to get past infidelity. Sort of tough it out. I'm not one of them. I don't advocate divorce either. I advocate doing what is best for you. Not you as a couple, not you as a family, just you.

Here is my take. Marriage is not a reward and divorce is not a punishment. The question is not whether you have forgiven her. I have heard other betrayed spouses who are still married and claim to be reconciled who say that they have not forgiven their spouse. The forgiveness factor is important, but it does not control remaining married. I know betrayed who have divorced and forgiven, too.

My point is this, sometimes it is a deal breaker. This is true even if you don't want it to be true. Your wife cost you security in your marriage, cost the life of a friend (not totally her fault, but she was a key part of that puzzle), cost you your peace of mind, etc. Now, 9 years later, thousands of dollars spent on counseling and meds and you still can't get over it. It sounds like it was a deal breaker.

Again, you can forgive her, you can love her, but perhaps you just can't be married to her. You don't have to be mad to divorce. Sometimes, you just have to change direction. Absence may help you heal and draw you closer or it may help you heal and send you on your way. After 9 years and all that you have relayed, I really do think that it was a deal breaker for you. No shame in that. Time to move on.


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## dazed&confuzed1 (Jan 7, 2015)

Wow, this is tough. You were betrayed by your wife and your friend, and someone you cared about at one point lost their life. Doesn't get much worse than that.

My wife had an affair with a co-worker about 9 years ago as well, & I never got over it. Always had my guard up and looked down on her in a since (even though I was just as guilty). I just couldn't let it go. Which kept me from being there for her emotionally. It kept me from being a loving husband, I mean I loved her, but wasn't in love with her, because I could never trust her again. Guess what, I back in the same boat again. I recently found out she had been talking to another man (who knows what else) over the summer. And again my world is turned upside down. She claims its was strictly a friendship she should not have had, but i will never know.

My wife is 100% wrong for what she has done, but I wish I would have been a loving husband to give us a chance. I was emotionally disconnected and had my guard up because of the first affair. I never got counseling, I just dealt with it on my own and kept it all in.

My advice: You chose to stay, you have to let it go and move on. If not, it may keep you from being a loving husband and put you back in that situation. Love is a game, you cant play scared or half willingly, if you do you will lose. Love whole heartedly and move forward with your life. Do not rob yourself or your wife of a loving marriage because of a bad period of your lives.

How is your wife now, is she loving, and respectful. Does she know how you feel. Do you trust her?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I have a different take. Your wife betrayed you and disrespected you with your best friend. She lied her ass off and played you for a complete fool. She wouldn't have stopped or confessed if things wouldn't have gone the way they did. She exposed your children and you to an awful and life changing experience.

Forgiving her is not the same as reconciling. You can forgive her and still divorce.

It is never too late to move on with your life. There is nothing wrong with attempting R and just not being able to be successful at it. 

If your still struggling after 5 years of therapy and her allegedly doing the right thing- just get over it- is not the way to process as it is not that simple.

File for D and rebuild your life. If not, expect another 5 or more years to be like this. That is no way to live.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think you are lying to your self for the last 9 years and no matter how hard you try you end up dealing with the "lows".

Granted getting a divorce you may also have some "low" points but you also have the chance to rebuild your life and at the very least you just might find you are finally being *true to your self*.

Maybe no matter how hard you try this just isn't the real you.

Who know I'm 5 yrs into R after my old lady phucked my "good" friend and many others by the way.....I may be you in another 4 years!


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

OP, Look over the whole picture. What really is your marriage, your life, your family, all,...what is it like? It's going to be the same for the future too, as you've been trying for 9 years to find a different answer for the same questions hoping if you keep asking, a different answer will appear. But after 9 years, I doubt you are going to. 

After the kids are gone, (( it does happen))you will be there together with your wife. Determine that life too. If you can deal with how it's been and can go on, then you have your answer, but reality is, for the most part, the way to predict future behavior, is to look at the past, for both you and your wife. 

~sammy


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Oregionian
> I still seem to have such harsh down times where I can't help but dwell on it all. I stay in a horrible mood during these times and it affects me in my teaching job.


Nine years trying to get over it plus 5 years of therapy and your life is what you described above?

You remind me of the man that complained that every time he got close to his pet snake the snake bit him. SEPARATE FROM THE SNAKE! Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

Do you really need us to figure this out? *Maybe you need to quit letting your fears keep you compromising. Make a change, step up and build yourself up in very way, and concentrate on ONLY you and your children.* Marriage is important but it is not everything in life and neither is your wife. If you cannot get over her then get away from her and do the mind over matter thing until you get better. Millions have done it and so can you!

*You can choose another 9 years of the same or you can do something about it*


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

This is the reason why I believe that if your spouse cheats, then it's one and done. 

Be damned if I'll live my life always wondering, always looking over my shoulder, always having the reminders of deceit, dishonesty and cheating.

I know that there are people that have patched up their marriage and I give them credit but I have no doubt that there's always the one little thing that comes along that brings up those ugly days and I want no parts of it and to be perfectly honest, if I was the one doing the cheating, I would expect the same. It would be my fault and wouldn't hold it against her if she left me. I've been on the receiving end of infidelity so I have lived with it and it was one and done, no exceptions. 

I know it sounds harsh and hard hearted but I value my mind and staying sane more then her excuses.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

There is no guarantee that if you divorce that you won't trigger again and again. For this reason you MUST continue with the therapy or seek out a different type of treatment. Do it not only for yourself but for your kids as well.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

How do you see yourself as the default guy?

Your BFF was not only a liar and cheater but mentally pretty sick.

Your wayward wife is not only a liar and cheater but she is responsible for bringing a pyscho into contact with your entire family which resulted in a suicide.

there are not enough "I'm sorry's" that she could ever say.

Be grateful that the OM did not harm the mother of your children.
Be grateful the OM did not take your entire family with him to the grave.

Your friend was a nut job. Your wife made very poor decisions and hurt you.

You have used up 5 years of your life contemplating if you are the "default guy".

So I will answer your question for you.

*You are only that guy if you let yourself be.*

It is truly as simple as that.

If you cannot forgive your wife then Divorce her.

If you have forgiven your wife and still want to be with her then drop the question and choose to live your life to the fullest.

Your wife is the one that should have spent 5 years in therapy for her crappy, selfish decisions.

I hope you choose to be happy. Life is too short.......

HM


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You had therapy. It clearly has not worked. 

I would suggest seeking out different therapy and taking your time to heal yourself. 

Talk of reconciliation and/or divorce are for later in my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

how would your wife feel if you had the affair with her best friend, and she killed herself in front of your kids?

would she still say that after you say that you are sorry, you do not have to say it anymore?

Your pain does not go away. Have you been to counseling with her?

It is a very emotional scar that you carry. It is not the same as other crimes, but it is an emotional trauma. You are supposed to sweep it under the rug?

Rape is a horrible crime. murder is a horrible crime. But if something bad happens like that, you do not tell the victim or the victim's family to sweep it under the rug. 

So if she is done trying to fix it, how would she feel if the roles were reversed?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

It's time to call it quits and divorce her, but you just don't want to admit it. Nine years, 5 of which in therapy has not helped. For many BSs, this is a dealbreaker. There is no shame in ending it. R is not for everyone. 

And your WW really is a piece of work. It's clear that the affair was going on even before your ex friend cut ties with you. What wife decides to spend time with another man to get the two of you back together? :bsflag:

Then she refuses to quit seeing him when you tell her not to. Then Trickle Truth's you. You never really got the truth about the affair, not even from him. They banged alot more than a few times, and the affair was going on far longer than you thought. This was the tip of the iceberg.

R is clearly NOT working for you. Like I said, it's not for everyone. It's time you cut ties with her.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I do not think I am the type of guy who could ever R with a cheater....I kicked my LTgf to the curb instantly when I caught her, but I am wise enough to know never is a long time and circumstances being different (kids, etc) it might be different in the future.

But one thing I know I would NEVER forgive is a situation like the one your WW put you through...specifically one where I kept warning her to knock of the interaction and boundary pushing and was continually gaslighted and told not to worry...only to then have the A happen.

To my way of thinking, in addition to the A and lying itself would have to be added the fact that I would forever see her as too stupid to realize the dangerous ground she was treading on....cause its either a case of being totally stupid or so downright evil that she is knowingly lying to my face and actually intending the A for the entire time.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Oregonian, you say that your wife has said that she's sorry, but _what has she done to *show you* that she's sorry?_

What, if anything, has she done to demonstrate remorse?

What, if anything, has she done to help you heal?

Since you're still wrestling w/ everything that went down after nine years, I'd be willing to bet that the singular answer to each of these questions is (at best) "not much".


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> You had therapy. It clearly has not worked.


Therapy alone cannot a successful reconciliation make.



MattMatt said:


> I would suggest seeking out different therapy and taking your time to heal yourself.


Agreed. I think some "divorce therapy" is long overdue.



MattMatt said:


> Talk of reconciliation and/or divorce are for later in my opinion.


LOL... what? It's been nine years. How much longer should he wait for someone else to give him the answer that he clearly already has but is struggling to accept?


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Oregonian said:


> Nine years ago, my wife cheated on me with my best friend of 24 years. . . . I have been through 5 years of therapy and marriage counseling for the both of us. I still seem to have such harsh down times where I can't help but dwell on it all. I stay in a horrible mood during these times and it affects me in my teaching job. I feel in my heart that I have forgiven her but there are times when I still can't believe they did all that they did. She has said "I'm sorry" so many times, she said she isn't going to say it any more and honestly, I don't need to hear it anymore. I just don't know how to stop dwelling on it during these low times. Holidays are the worst as that's when the worst of this happened. We still have good times, but I feel like I ended up as the default guy at times. *I don't know how to cope with it any more.*


Dear Oregonian,

Given that you haven't healed after nine years, as someone else said, it's time to try something different.

My advice is to physically separate from your FWW for a while. Get your own place to live and severely limit your interaction with her while you figure out whether you are better off with or without her.

After a few months, if you feel better and more able to "cope," you may decide to make the separation permanent. Or you may find that absence does make your heart grow fonder for her, in which case it may be worth giving your marriage another try. In either case, you sound like someone who would benefit from IC with someone expert in dealing with PTSD.

Wishing you the best.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Therapy alone cannot a successful reconciliation make.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because he needs to get himself into a state of mind when he is strong enough to cope with the idea of divorcing or reconciling.

I think it's likely that the counselling he received was less than effective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> And your WW really is a piece of work. It's clear that the affair was going on even before your ex friend cut ties with you. What wife decides to spend time with another man to get the two of you back together? :bsflag:


Agree with this totally. If you chose to cut ties with your best friend and your wife wanted you both to reconcile, her place was by your side persuading you change your mind.

Their affair preceded the situation with your friend. When she didn't leave you for him he killed himself. Perhaps, it's because you never got the real truth that you're still in turmoil nine years later?


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

After 9 years ....
File for a D you're gonna continu to suffer. Divorce and move on you will find peace and you will start over (before it's to late) with a decent honnest woman that will make you forget what your own wife did..


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
If you are going to move forward in your marriage you must ask yourself two key questions. One, is your wife willing to do whatever is necessary to rebuild your trust and if she does, can you ever trust her again. And two, can you look at the time before D-day as an old chapter and realize that you now are in a new chapter with "new" characters.

I give you credit for persisting for 9 years but if you cannot answer both questions positively then I'm afraid you are destined to relive the past 9 years indefinitely. Good luck.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

That's a tough way to lose a "best friend", I guess.
Will you ever learn to trust your "other" best friend?
I doubt it.
Maybe you can learn to not really care.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Because he needs to get himself into a state of mind when he is strong enough to cope with the idea of divorcing or reconciling.


My read here is that OP knows that divorce is the right answer for him, but he's fighting it.



MattMatt said:


> I think it's likely that the counselling he received was less than effective.


Well yeah.


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## princevinco (Jul 7, 2014)

My dear i had read your post and wish to advise as a marriage counselor to be careful how you handle the above matter. I wish to authoritatively tell you that the plan of the man is to snatch your wife from you. That is why he boldly confessed to you that they had slept together several times over the 9 months.
His plan is for you to sack your wife yourself so that he takes over your wife. So if you still love your wife, put the incident aside and forgive your wife. In summary of what am saying is that you should not allow that man snatch your wife, for that is what he has in mind, to break your marriage and take over.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Horrible story. I am sorry that it happened in real life rather than some Hollywood movie.

First of all, I am glad your friend shot himself and not any of you. It could have easily been homicidal rather than suicidal.

The betrayal you suffered was massive. First, the fact that she cheated on you, next the fact of who she did it with and then in the end of how badly it ended.

I wouldn't have been able to deal with that for 9 years. 

1) I disagree with the concept of separation. It's either go or no go. Separation just provides an opportunity for someone to find other relationships and to internally justify them. It also displaces someone.

2) Look at what made you stay all of these years. Form a balance sheet of the positives and negatives. If the negatives outweigh the positives, IMO, time to go. If not, then time to work on it further.

3) Counseling isn't always the only option. I know someone who received hypnotherapy to overcome their issues when they couldn't get them resolved. It worked well as did meditation.

4) I am concerned by both the gravity of her betrayal as well as her 'tough $hit' attitude now. It would be unfair for her to be able to move on when you can't. She created this monster, she has to help destroy it. 

5) Do you feel she's been faithful the rest of the marriage ?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

I also agree with the poster who said it didn't make any sense why 'she was helping him with his issues' and trying to mend you two. That would be your job. That poster makes a good point that maybe it was an excuse for her to continue an already existing relationship ??? I hate to open pandoras box any more but something may have been askew even before the 9 months


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Oregonian said:


> Nine years ago, my wife cheated on me with my best friend of 24 years. Right after he cut ties with me, my wife tried to fix our friendship and was spending time with him. My wife and I were not doing real well at the time.



If I understand this correctly, you’re in a troubled marriage and your wife decides to make it her special project to patch up your friendship. In order to do this she has to spend a lot of time with your best friend. :scratchhead:

How about this possibility? Your wife and best friend were having an affair. Your best friend felt guilty and it put a strain on your friendship. When you noticed how much time they were spending together she came up with the cover story of trying to patch up your friendship.

You know she has no problem lying to you.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

wmn1 said:


> I also agree with the poster who said it didn't make any sense why 'she was helping him with his issues' and trying to mend you two. That would be your job. That poster makes a good point that maybe *it was an excuse for her to continue an already existing relationship ?*?? I hate to open pandoras box any more but something may have been askew even before the 9 months


:iagree:


Trying to R is not a crime but living in this state for 9 yrs is a crime torwards yourself.

Certain betrayals are deal breakers, so, we wont get the the desired out come even if we try for a long time.

I think you suffered a lot, its time to quit and look for something different.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

OP,

It's your right and option to D at any time. From discovery day through to now. There is no expiration date. She has no vote in the matter. She lost that the day she stepped out of your marriage. 

Has she earned her way back and done all the right things for you? Even if she has and you're still not good with it - the solution is D (or continue a life of suffering).


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

What is your wife's thoughts/actions to you about how you have been feeling all these years and more importantly now as you have felt the need to post


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I cant say I would have kept her around after that. The kids seriously did not deserve that and her actions is what helped bring that on. I feel horrible for you. It sounds like you have never really been able to let go. I am not sure I would have done any better. 

I hope you can find a way to deal with this and move on with your life. 

Clay


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

What are the things she did to help you heal?

Was she truly remorseful through out this period? Was she completely transparent? Do you think you have the complete truth about her A?


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

I speculate, as some posters here, that your wife likely had a relationship with your best friend before your rift. The strain between your best friend and you was caused by your wife's infidelity and guilt of your friend. In the guise of helping to bridge your friendship, she continued her affair.

After nine years of torture, you need to live a life without her. Life will not change for you. She reminds you daily of the heartbreak with your best friend, betrayal, and a horrible suicide death in front of your children. As a fellow teacher, I don't know how you survive daily in the classroom. It's time for you to heal.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Graywolf2 said:


> How about this possibility? Your wife and best friend were having an affair. Your best friend felt guilty and it put a strain on your friendship. When you noticed how much time they were spending together she came up with the cover story of trying to patch up your friendship.
> 
> You know she has no problem lying to you.


I'd even go one step further, she most likely seduced him and facilitated the whole thing solely to gratify her selfish desires and without any consideration of your feelings at all. The best friend felt guilty about the cheating. To this day, I'll bet the wife doesn't. She's just sorry she got caught.

The worst part of this story is the self imposed life sentence (nine years and counting) the OP has imposed on himself for HER sins. She doesn't love you, you're her security blanket aka plan B. 

That's why you feel horrible still. Cause deep down you know it's true and it's eating away at your soul.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Being sorry does not fix everything.

Forgiving doesn't mean forgetting.

Letting go of what she did doesn't mean you can't also let go of her.

There are all kinds of relationships. She will always be in your life as the mother of your children. 

How else do you want her in your life, aside from that? And why?


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## Oregonian (Sep 14, 2012)

I can honestly say that I do still love her. We go on fun weekends together and vacations and there are times when the whole affair isn't even a blip on the radar. But sometimes something will cause me to reflect back on what had happened and I feel so unbelievably betrayed and angry and it takes me so long to get over it. She asks me "what's the matter?" After so much time now, I don't feel like I can talk to her about it because it just causes her to get depressed and upset with herself. I know she is so sorry for what happened. She says she knows she made huge mistakes and regrets them every day. Unfortunately I think all of this has caused her to start drinking more and more so that it is starting to become an issue as well. When ever she gets depressed over this, she drinks more. I don't know if going back to therapy is the right thing to do or not. Marriage or just myself. I thought that just before the affair came to light and before she started spending time with him that things were pretty good between us but of course now I know I was wrong. I was spending too much time with my own interests, friends and ignored her pleas to spend more time at home. I know for sure that they were not together before he ended our friendship because up until then, I was spending quite a bit of time with him doing best friend type things, i.e. helping out with each others home repairs, watching ball games etc. While I know there is NO excuse for what she did, if I had been more attentive to her and not so selfish with what I wanted she probably wouldn't have strayed. I've seen quite a few in here who have said I should leave her, that I won't ever be at peace with her. We've been married for 28 years now, it's so hard to imagine not being with her. Feels like a 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' situation.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Oregonian here's the thing dawg. If you're exposed to and sick from a toxic substance, the first thing you have to do to recover is get away from the toxic substance. There ain't no doctors that can help much if you stay exposed. You know what Im saying.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oregonian said:


> I can honestly say that I do still love her. We go on fun weekends together and vacations and there are times when the whole affair isn't even a blip on the radar. But sometimes something will cause me to reflect back on what had happened and I feel so unbelievably betrayed and angry and it takes me so long to get over it. She asks me "what's the matter?" After so much time now, I don't feel like I can talk to her about it because it just causes her to get depressed and upset with herself. I know she is so sorry for what happened. She says she knows she made huge mistakes and regrets them every day. Unfortunately I think all of this has caused her to start drinking more and more so that it is starting to become an issue as well. When ever she gets depressed over this, she drinks more. I don't know if going back to therapy is the right thing to do or not. Marriage or just myself. I thought that just before the affair came to light and before she started spending time with him that things were pretty good between us but of course now I know I was wrong. I was spending too much time with my own interests, friends and ignored her pleas to spend more time at home. I know for sure that they were not together before he ended our friendship because up until then, I was spending quite a bit of time with him doing best friend type things, i.e. helping out with each others home repairs, watching ball games etc. While I know there is NO excuse for what she did, if I had been more attentive to her and not so selfish with what I wanted she probably wouldn't have strayed. I've seen quite a few in here who have said I should leave her, that I won't ever be at peace with her. We've been married for 28 years now, it's so hard to imagine not being with her. Feels like a 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' situation.


You both have problems that need to be addressed to make you better people.

I would recommend some decent counselling for you both.

This might help you decide to reconcile properly or divorce. Both options are preferable, in my opinion, to living like you both are.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Oregon man, 

Couple of things. First, you take WAY TOO MUCH BLAME for her cheating. She owns that 100%. People get cheated on who have seemingly "perfect" marriages. A cheater is gonna cheat and find a reason. You blame yourself so that may be a part of your problem, but truth of fact, your wife was a cheater and all of the bad, evil crap that comes with that. Could she change, has she changed? Sure, why not? Is she sorry? sure. Is she remorseful? sure. None of that changes the fact that she was a cheater and all that comes with that. It was not your fault. If you really break down all that she had to do to actually cheat, creep around, lie, primp, do the dirty, etc, there is no way on this earth that you could be to blame for all of that. Hell, if that were the case then caring attentive husbands don't get cheated on....oops, they do. Read some Wayward's stories.

Next, you said you are "damned if [you] do, damned if [you] don't". You have only tried one option. You have not tried separation. Maybe your wife is the trigger. Maybe you are angry with yourself because you don't think you handled the issue "manly" enough. Who knows?

I simply suggest that taking time away from her, a serious hard separation, might help you. Maybe you will feel that by leaving her and making her deal with that reality that you salvage yourself. Maybe the thought of her begging you to come back or being miserable without you may make you feel like you are not second best. MAYBE. She might not beg and just take it quietly. Who knows, you have not tried it.

Maybe being away from her and facing a few weeks alone and getting used to existing on your own may clear your head. You might decide to go back. You might decide to just end it. The thing is, you can't just rule out an option that YOU HAVE NOT TRIED.

You may find that you don't NEED your wife in your life that you can move on. You can work it out with her then because there is something empowering about realizing that you don't need someone. You could leave or you could come back because you realize that you WANT her, but BOTH of you realize that you don't need her. That might restore some balance. 

The point is, it might be a deal breaker and you need to not live in fear that such is the case. If you NEED her and it was a deal breaker, then you betray yourself by staying. If you WANT her, then the deal can be renegotiated and you don't betray yourself. 
You seem pretty devastated, so its time to go big or go home and suffer. Time to find out if you NEED her or WANT her and if she NEEDS you or WANTS you. You are never gonna know unless you test those waters. Good luck.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If the counseling didnt work, you had the wrong counselor/counselors. You should have had PTSD counseling with someone also conversant with infidelity.

Additionally, the suicide and infidelity was also traumatic on your wife and the rest of your family. The suicide was 100% on your mentally I'll friend. No one else has any responsibility for it. He did it that way to add guilt to your injury of infidelity. It would be disrespectful to say what I really think of him (cough .....Darwin award).

What he did by doing that to your family was even worse than what a man can do by seducing his wife. 

Lastly, pick up a newspaper everyday for a week and count your blessings your troubles pale in comparison to stories you see there.

Get the mmslp book linked to below.

Find out how to be a leader and lead your family the way a father is supposed to do.

Maybe volunteering at a local VA hospital might help you readjust your priorities.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Oregionian
> I still seem to have such harsh down times where I can't help but dwell on it all. I stay in a horrible mood during these times and it affects me in my teaching job.
> 
> I can honestly say that I do still love her
> ...


Ok you have stated that you do not love her and have listed several things that cause you pain. *Why are you still with this woman?* In addition, your wife is heading towards alcoholism and gets depressed. I believe you when you say that your wife is sorry but that apparently is not enough for you to do better.

*What are your fears?	What is holding you back?*

I am going to guess. You have a martyr complex or you are letting fear control you. I am not trying to rag on you but I have to wonder why a person who does not love his wife and has been greatly troubled for 9 YEARS is in the same position that he was the first few years. You have had one hell of a trauma with betrayal by your wife your best friend and then the death. That is heavy my brother!

*However, YOU are 100% responsible for you getting you better*. Stop letting your fear and martyrdom keep your from taking positive actions. You have been given several options so you need to choose and then DO IT! 

Did you notice in your last post that you said the same thing two times? You repeated your comment below in two different sections of your post



> I was spending too much time with my own interests, friends and ignored her pleas to spend more time at home.


That is why I wonder if you are being a martyr. You not spending more time at home is in no way, not even close, to a good reason for your wife to betray you and her children. They are a lot of men that are 9 years post betrayal and they are a lot better than your are. *What you have to do to get better is hard but if millions of men can do it so can you.* 

You have not listed anything that tells me that your wife is causing you to be so troubled for these last few years. I can understand the shock of the first 3-4 years but nine years is a good amount of time to be better than you are.

With what you have written so far I am can only conclude that you are the biggest obstacle to you getting better. You say “Feels like a 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' situation.” I can see how the words of dammed if you don’t apply but the words of “damned if you do” does not apply as you have not done much DO.

* What do you have to lose by taking action to change? You are already miserable so you can only gain taking positive actions*.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Oregonian said:


> I can honestly say that I do still love her. We go on fun weekends together and vacations and there are times when the whole affair isn't even a blip on the radar. But sometimes something will cause me to reflect back on what had happened and I feel so unbelievably betrayed and angry and it takes me so long to get over it. She asks me "what's the matter?" After so much time now, I don't feel like I can talk to her about it because it just causes her to get depressed and upset with herself. I know she is so sorry for what happened. She says she knows she made huge mistakes and regrets them every day. Unfortunately I think all of this has caused her to start drinking more and more so that it is starting to become an issue as well. When ever she gets depressed over this, she drinks more. I don't know if going back to therapy is the right thing to do or not. Marriage or just myself. I thought that just before the affair came to light and before she started spending time with him that things were pretty good between us but of course now I know I was wrong. I was spending too much time with my own interests, friends and ignored her pleas to spend more time at home. I know for sure that they were not together before he ended our friendship because up until then, I was spending quite a bit of time with him doing best friend type things, i.e. helping out with each others home repairs, watching ball games etc. While I know there is NO excuse for what she did, if I had been more attentive to her and not so selfish with what I wanted she probably wouldn't have strayed. I've seen quite a few in here who have said I should leave her, that I won't ever be at peace with her. We've been married for 28 years now, it's so hard to imagine not being with her. Feels like a 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' situation.


OK, so I may have misread your initial post, though the degree to which I may have done so seems to be a bit unclear.

Regardless, I'd wager that the biggest reason that you feel the way that you do is because... well, to be frank, your buddy offed himself. In taking the coward's way out (and in your yard... and in view of your children, no less), he pretty much robbed you of the opportunity to legitimately win your wife back, therefore leaving you w/ the "default guy" feeling. Yet another check in the "geez, what a guy" column for him.

Assuming that she hasn't already, have your wife read this book...

How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful - Kindle edition by Linda MacDonald @ Amazon.com.

In fact, read it together.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

This



Oregonian said:


> . . . We still have good times, but I feel like I ended up as the default guy at times. I don't know how to cope with it any more.


and then this



Oregonian said:


> . . . We've been married for 28 years now, it's so hard to imagine not being with her. Feels like a 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' situation.


My guess is that your more likely to be "damned" if you don't do anything different than what you've been doing. Some have suggested separation, others counseling -- I've recommended both. Maybe these things won't work, but what else can you do?

Look, Oregonian, there is no magic formula or silver bullet that is going to solve your problem. You know that. You're the one who said you were at the end of your rope. So what do you want people to tell you?

In the end, whatever she did, it was nine years ago, you forgave her and you admit that she has tried to make it up to you. I don't mean to be harsh but maybe you just need to stop being a victim and start being a stronger man.

Oh, and if you really care about her, encourage her to get help for her drinking.

Still wishing you the best.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The best you can do in life is find a woman that would cheat with your best friend and yet you ask why you are unhappy ?

Now she is a alcoholic and her excuse for it is that she is depressed about you reminding her of the affair she had with your friend ? I really don't intend to hurt you, but how can you be so f*king stupid to believe her ?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> In taking the coward's way out (and in your yard... and in view of your children, no less), he pretty much robbed you of the opportunity to legitimately win your wife back, therefore leaving you w/ the "default guy" feeling.


:iagree: Nail on the head!


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op, 

I've been with my hubs now almost 4 yrs out from him cheating at the 28th yr of our marriage. For the past 4 years we have been separated, by that I mean not sleeping w each other, living in different places, but still are in each other lives 24/7. He comes into the home ever so many x a month, to ck on things. 

We haven't determined our relationship, though I know it isn't back together as we were... but, I can tell you this, I didn't die when I thought I couldn't live without this person in my daily life as I thought, everyday. If anything, I've gotten to know myself better, and like myself a whole lot more.

I also realized all the horrible things that one thinks is going to happen, rarely happens the way one imagines... 

~sammy


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

My situation is not the same as yours, but I am still having problems dealing with my WW's infidelity as well. Hang in there is all I can say, that seems to be all I can do too.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

altawa said:


> My situation is not the same as yours, but I am still having problems dealing with my WW's infidelity as well. Hang in there is all I can say, that seems to be all I can do too.


I went through this crap 5 yrs ago....you and altaww need to buckle up ...establish new boundaries and set consequences for when those boundaries are crossed!

If any one should be hanging on...it is your cheating spouse while they watch a confident loyal spouse head for the door.

As a betrayed spouse, the last thing you want your wayward spouse to see is you "just hanging on".....waywards need to see a confident spouse that won't take any more crap.....

Ya it sucks and it's hard...just don't let your wayward see you"just hanging on"....fake it until you make it!


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

I would say you experienced severe PTSD *twice. First, for the infidelity of your with a good friend(a double betrayal) and then the suicide with which he revenged himself upon you, wife and your family. I cannot believe you were ever counseled correctly for that horrendous double trauma. You still need specific IC for this.

You had said sometimes the infidelity is not even a blip on the radar but then you trigger and go into a serious funk. You need to learn how to deal with triggers in a serious way. The brain can rewire the associative connections it has made if you discipline and remain consistant with the corrective approach to negative thinking. Read "Mindsight" by Daniel Siegel, MD

Your wife needs to realize both the trauma she caused with the infidelity and then the mismanagement of the aftermath and healing of you and take responsibility for both. The book previously mentioned is a good start but you need to insist upon serious MC with a therapist that is experienced in both infidelity and PTSD. 

Sometimes I think that the BS suffers for as long as they don't accept the truth, whatever it may be for them: spouse wasn't who they thought, expectations of marriage were smashed, they were not to blame for infidelity, etc. Could this be your situation? Think about it and Good Luck*


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your friend was a very selfish guy indeed. But you could also say that his twisted response to the situation was an act of self sacrifice, his fvcked up way of saying sorry. He didn't try to shoot you or your wife.

Perhaps you should go to AA meetings, both of you.


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## 343612534 (Apr 15, 2014)

She is still having inappropriate relationships with others. She had time and opportunity to learn and change. She has not. No bs excuse is acceptable here. I don't think you should feel one bit bad for the guy shooting himself, be thankful he was successful. There is a work for a woman like her and it starts with a C.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

It's hard for you to compete with the fond memories your wife has of her affair partner. It's doubly hard because his real persona with all his faults is not front and center for her to see. How do you compete with a ghost? Do you think she remembers him with any fondness or as an innocent victim of a mental illness? If so you should have divorced her long ago. 

If she remembers him as a predatory seducer monster you might be able to move on with her, but how do you know she was not the seductress? 

What would it take for you to give yourself permission to move on in a different way (divorce)? How old are your kids and what would it do to them if you divorced? How remorseful is she? How changed is she? What are the odds she could betray you again? Has she really wrapped her mind and heart around what she has done? Does she comprehend what a gift you are giving her by staying with her or does she take it for granted? 

You have a lot of soul searching to do. In the mean time I'd demand she attend AA meetings along with you. Good luck.


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