# I want to save my marriage need help(long post)



## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

We have been married for 12 years and have a 5yr old daughter. Since our daughter was born a slow distance has grown between my wife and I. My wife has been a stay at home mom since our childs birth and we have struggled financially but I worked hard so she could be there because of child care expenses and her desire to be home. My downfall that Ive learned is that as hard as tried to do everything so she wouldnt have to, regardless of my intentions, I became what I thought I wouldnt, controlling, over bearing and took away her independence. I realize now what I was doing wrong but afraid I might be too late. 

She has tried many times to talk to me about intimacy in our relationship and well I blew her off and it turned into an argument. I always thought she was talking about our bedroom life, which has always been great, but I didnt realize the emotional aspect of it. Another downfall. So for years I struggled with stress about our finances and the disconnect I felt from my wife and why she wasnt enthusiastic about our marriage and doing things as a family. Six months ago she began working from home with an internet radio company and the happiness and excitement I saw in her because she was doing something that involved music and writing a change came over me and I too became excited for her. 

She was alive again and I tried to share in her excitement that I think I overwhelmed her. One thing I must mention that during those 2 months she never was paid and things at home started to get neglected due to her involvement with this company even our daughter. I became frustrated and when I confronted her about it we would fight. She started having late night chats with a male coworker who luckily is 3000miles away but I over heard some chats late at night and it hurt. She was confiding in a stranger things about our emotional life and instead of talking about it I tried to show more affection. That didnt work. One night we fought so bad she told me that she didnt was in love with me anymore. I was destroyed. Our sex life went through the roof and for the next 3 weeks whenever I tried to ask her why she said what she did we would fight. She eventually left me and our daughter and went to live with her father in the next town.

During those 1st 2 weeks I ended up needing emergencey surgery after tearing my acl in my knee and had to let my daughter go live with her and change schools. I did everything I shouldnt of to get her back. Pleading pouring my heart out saying id change and all I did was push her away. After my surgery I was on disibility at 50% pay and knowing I would not be able to keep our home is the reason I did the things I did. Desperation. Ive now lost our home and had to move 2hrs away to my mothers. My wife still has not been paid by this company and I am in search of a new job. We do communicate but only a little a bit about us. I do see my daughter as often as I can but Im miserable. My has said she still loves me and is physically attracted to me but she still is emotionally unattached. I called her family about her involvement with this company and they had already knew. 

I have gotten over most of my anxiety and depression but I still want to save my marriage and reconnect with my wife. I have done everything I can do to learn what to do and feel confident in myself and want use it to save my marriage. I am struggling with breaking the ice talking with her and not sure how to go about it. The tension between us seems almost gone but I need to regain her trust. I know she is struggling and want to help but how do I go about bringing her back emotionally to me? She has no choice to continue contact with the other guy but has admitted there is no attraction to him other than as a friend and he is married as well. Please help I need reunite my family and make my marriage better.

Thank you.


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## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

I can feel with your words that you are 100% willing and committed to work on your marriage.
What about your wife? On a scale from 1 to 10, 1 being not committed and 10 completely committed, where is she? What about asking her that question.
Before taking action toward saving your marriage, you need to know if she is on that boat with you as well. 
So what is her commitment?


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

You both would benefit from individual counseling. Perhaps you can eventually move into marriage counseling.

Try to date her. Do not talk about your problems, just date her, as if you just met. Keep it light and fun.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I think you're leaving an awful lot out of the story, NYS. To be completely honest, what I am reading between the lines is that you were abusive to her - at least emotionally - and now regret that it has cost you your marriage. 

You wrote:



> I have gotten over most of my anxiety and depression but I still want to save my marriage and reconnect with my wife. I have done everything I can do to learn what to do and feel confident in myself and want use it to save my marriage. I am struggling with breaking the ice talking with her and not sure how to go about it. The tension between us seems almost gone but I need to regain her trust. I know she is struggling and want to help but how do I go about bringing her back emotionally to me? She has no choice to continue contact with the other guy but has admitted there is no attraction to him other than as a friend and he is married as well. Please help I need reunite my family and make my marriage better.


There are a couple of things I'll mention that I hope you'll find helpful. One is that yes, she does and did have a choice whether or not to continue interacting with another man. Every woman can choose to be single, devoted, or straying. If you *do* reconnect, I hope you'll have a plan for how you will cope with your feelings of betrayal, because they ARE there and WILL be there (worse than now) and your reaction to this could harm your relationship's recovery. 

If you're wanting to reconnect, and you understand that you need to earn her trust, and you see her struggling, the best way to open that door is to ask her if there's anything you can do to ease her struggle. Then do what she says. If it's "give me space," then don't pursue her. If it's "give me money" then help her to a reasonable degree, but be sure to set appropriate limits. And so on....


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

To Growtogether: At one point she said that there was no chance to retrieve what we had but I believe it came from anger of being honest with her about my feelings and no it wasnt abusive on my end I told her the truth about something I had been carrying with since before we were married. She cheated on me 1.5yrs into our relationship although she said it didnt include sex. My guess would be maybe 3-5 out of 10. Honestly right now I do not know if she is commited to saving our marriage. I am afraid to approach the subject out of fear that she might think I am trying to manipulate her emotions which she said to me in an email. In 15 years Ive known her never have I tried or heard say to me that I was being manipulating. I dont think those words came from her.

To KathyBatesel: In our arguments I did unfortunately express my feelings in a mean and hurtful way but it was in the heat of the moment. Never have Ive been verbally abusive to my wife. In the time I have known her only one time have I ever called a name in an argument and of course it was the worst word a man can call a woman and I regret it everyday. For years I have felt unappreciated and that nothing I ever did was good enough for her nor was I good enough for her. She acknowledges that for years she has talked to me in a belittling way in front of peers but never changed that habit and that is where my anger and emotions came from in arguments. 

I just returned from the library and read a very helpful book on communication and listening in relationships. Im still unsure if now is the time to share with my wife the things Ive learned or let things be. But everyday that goes by Im afraid of things getting worse. I dont know how to bring back her comfort level with me to talk to me about how she is feeling.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

nystranger said:


> I just returned from the library and read a very helpful book on communication and listening in relationships. Im still unsure if now is the time to share with my wife the things Ive learned or let things be. But everyday that goes by Im afraid of things getting worse. I dont know how to bring back her comfort level with me to talk to me about how she is feeling.


I didn't make my statement to heap blame, but just to call attention to what's influencing her thinking on some of this. 

If you're afraid of approaching her, it's probably not the right time. I'm still of the opinion that a simple, "Let me know if I can be of assistance" every now and again will be the door that she will eventually be willing to step through - if there is ANY doorway that will lead her back.


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

KathyBatesel said:


> I didn't make my statement to heap blame, but just to call attention to what's influencing her thinking on some of this.
> 
> If you're afraid of approaching her, it's probably not the right time. I'm still of the opinion that a simple, "Let me know if I can be of assistance" every now and again will be the door that she will eventually be willing to step through - if there is ANY doorway that will lead her back.


Thank you Kathy. Fighting back the urges now to open up to her about what Ive learned has been so hard. All these years thinking that it was her happiness and feelings I was caring about all along the effect it had was the opposite has been a revelation. I never not loved my wife and during all our struggles and my low self esteem while she stood by me my love grew stronger. I want her to know, better yet feel, that my love for is real and always has been but through clouded vision and my lack of knowledge of what a marriage is supposed to be growing up without a father in my life.


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## jdd (Aug 30, 2013)

nystranger said:


> She has tried many times to talk to me about intimacy in our relationship and well I blew her off and it turned into an argument.


She was begging to connect with you, but instead of being her safest friend, (which is what she needed), you fought with her and became a very unsafe person.



nystranger said:


> She started having late night chats with a male coworker who luckily is 3000miles away but I over heard some chats late at night and it hurt. She was confiding in a stranger things about our emotional life and instead of talking about it I tried to show more affection.


This was / is an emotional affair.



nystranger said:


> One night we fought so bad she told me that she didnt was in love with me anymore.


This is very commonly said when someone is having an affair. 



nystranger said:


> My has said she still loves me and is physically attracted to me but she still is emotionally unattached.


She is "Checked Out" emotionally and once a woman checks out emotionally from a relationship it is extremely rare they ever return emotionally to the relationship. 



nystranger said:


> The tension between us seems almost gone


Yes, this is very common for the tension to go once the woman checks out, it's a very bad sign. She just doesn't care anymore. Your way better off if she is still fighting with you, once you get to the point where "The tension between us seems almost gone" she is quite far along in the process of being checked out.



nystranger said:


> but I need to regain her trust. I know she is struggling and want to help but how do I go about bringing her back emotionally to me?


#1 You will have to Prove to her that your are Trustworthy, Safe and Reliable and will have to do so for an extended period of time to prove you are not going to go back to the way you were.

#2: She has to be not only willing, but want to re-engage with you and want to trust you again. Even if she really wants this, it's going to take her a long time to get there emotionally. 



nystranger said:


> She has no choice to continue contact with the other guy but has admitted there is no attraction to him other than as a friend and he is married as well.


This is right out of the cheaters script. There is almost certainly an attraction there and probably an ongoing emotional affair. She has to go no contact with this person for your relationship to have any chance to heal at all.

Be prepared for this journey to take you many many months to years and in the end you may end up with a wife who never emotionally reconnects with you again. It's the extremely rare woman that will expose herself emotionally again to the same person who hurt her.


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

oscarsmom said:


> Thank you, nystranger, for sharing so openly.
> 
> Have you considered going to individual counseling to work through your side of things?
> 
> Regarding reconciling your marriage, a great book you may want to consider looking into is _Hope for The Separated: Wounded Marriages Can Be Healed_ by Gary Chapman.


I have considered it but with finances the way they are it is not possible at the moment. So far I have searched out all the free advice I can and will see about the book you mentioned. Thank you for the suggestions.


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

I just spoke with my wife and it wasn't a happy conversation. No arguing but heart felt about our feelings. She feels that the best thing for her, our daughter and me is a divorce. She feels that we would fall right back into the pattern of our past and that she is not happy with the person she is when we are together. I shared with her the things I have learned and she was appreciative of my effort but she said that she doesn't know if she has it in her to make the same effort. I was as positive as I could be about how together we can make things better with minimal effort. Her belief is that it would be in our daughters best interest for us to divorce. I dont understand that. I was very encouraging and non combative and tried instill sincerity in my efforts which I believe she felt. But she still feels that she is not in love with me but admits that our relationship has had many more great moments then bad. She feels like we never had anything to talk about other than work. I told her that I believe in our marriage that we can use what we are learning about each other and build off it for a better future together and make a long lasting meaningful relationship. I think I approached it the right way and kept my mouth shut when she was talking no matter how painful the words I heard were I did my best to turn them into positives. One thing she did say was that she is in limbo with our situation and I agreed the that I have the same feeling. She also admitted to this being her decision and that emotionally she feels like she is in a better place the way things are. How can you be in an emotionally better place with the situation we are in and feeling like you're in limbo? She never said no to both of us making a conscience effort into our relationship but what happens from here on out has put back a lot of confusion in me. I don't what to do now or how long to let this keep going on. I did tell her again that if divorce is the route she wants to take that I will seek custody of our daughter. Not out of spite or to be mean but because of my emotional connection to her. She even admitted her selfishness caused some of our issues but yet I dont feel an effort of change on her part. What to do?


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## jdd (Aug 30, 2013)

*Re: Re: I want to save my marriage need help(long post)*



nystranger said:


> How can you be in an emotionally better place with the situation we are in and feeling like you're in limbo?


Because she is checked out - emotionally disconnected from you and the relationship; that makes it feel better to her as she is no longer dealing with the heavy burden of the relationship. 

As to what to do, as I said before she has to be willing to terminate all contact with the other man for you to even have a chance, is she willing to do this?


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

jdd said:


> Because she is checked out - emotionally disconnected from you and the relationship; that makes it feel better to her as she is no longer dealing with the heavy burden of the relationship.
> 
> As to what to do, as I said before she has to be willing to terminate all contact with the other man for you to even have a chance, is she willing to do this?


When we spoke I said to her that I didnt blame her for confiding in someone else emotionally cause I wasnt there for her when she needed me most. I did not ask her to cut ties with him as to not make her feel pressured in anyway. I am trying to instill her confidence in me to trust me again emotionally and I was afraid of sounding demanding without showing weakness I kept my composure and confidence that we still have something worth fighting for and that I believe in us becoming stronger together. I did ask if she had looked into divorce at all and her response was "A little." I mixed feelings about if she was really set on divorce or not. My hope right now is that she is thinking about the things I said and that she might see the value of our relationship after 15yrs. I guess time will tell. I said that I would talk to her again soon and she was not reluctant to that notion. You know the joke "How do you keep an a-hole in suspense? I will tell you later." That is how I feel right now as I look at the divorce papers I have.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Stranger, you are probably going to reject what follows, but following concepts represent your best, very slim, chance at fixing this. However, if you make these changes, you're probably going to be attracting women other than your wife. Higher quality women in fact. First I'm going to review your comments, then I'm going to make some recommendations.



nystranger said:


> We have been married for 12 years and have a 5yr old daughter. Since our daughter was born a slow distance has grown between my wife and I.


So, the daughter arrived at year 7 and distancing began. Basically, this is a double whammy from two different psycho-biological tendencies that encourage a woman to move on; obviously, the seven-year itch (women naturally lose attraction at 4-7 years according to numerous "experts") and the successful reproduction with you (hopefully).



nystranger said:


> My wife has been a stay at home mom since our childs birth and we have struggled financially but I worked hard so she could be there because of child care expenses and her desire to be home. My downfall that Ive learned is that as hard as tried to do everything so she wouldnt have to, regardless of my intentions, *I became what I thought I wouldnt, controlling, over bearing and took away her independence.* I realize now what I was doing wrong but afraid I might be too late.


What does that mean? How did you do that exactly? 



nystranger said:


> She has tried many times to talk to me about intimacy in our relationship and well I blew her off and it turned into an argument. I always thought she was talking about our bedroom life, which has always been great, but I didnt realize the emotional aspect of it. Another downfall. So for years I struggled with stress about our finances and the disconnect I felt from my wife and why she wasnt enthusiastic about our marriage and doing things as a family.


Sorry, but you've got the cart before the horse. Your wife basically lost real attraction to you after the child was born. All the above arguments and such was really just fall out from that. The good news is that you may be able to build attraction again, but the odds aren't that good.



nystranger said:


> Six months ago she began working from home with an internet radio company and the happiness and excitement *I saw in her because she was doing something that involved music and writing a change came over me and I too became excited for her.*


This is merely more confirmation that you are responding to her whims and moods and letting her set the tone for the marriage. You know that's bad, right?



nystranger said:


> She was alive again and I tried to share in her excitement that I think I overwhelmed her.



No, you just pissed her off by trying to get inside her fantasy, the whole point of which was that you weren't in it. 



nystranger said:


> One thing I must mention that during those 2 months she never was paid and things at home started to get neglected due to her involvement with this company even our daughter. I became frustrated and when I confronted her about it we would fight.



Once they decide to enter fantasy world (music industry "job" that pays zero LOL) nothing else matters. Of course she's going to be pissed at you, she was already done with you, anyway. Why is this surprising?



nystranger said:


> She started having late night chats with a male coworker who luckily is 3000miles away but I over heard some chats late at night and it hurt. She was confiding in a stranger things about our emotional life and instead of talking about it I tried to show more affection. That didnt work. * One night we fought so bad she told me that she didnt was in love with me anymore. * I was destroyed.


And she hadn't been for a long time; since your daughter was born. When a woman is moving away from you and entering some other guy's orbit, the best way to bring her back in is to start demonstrating what is known, for lack of a better term, as "higher value" than you have been. Basically, it means moving away from her and attracting other women (ideally multiple other women) or at least demonstrating the capability and intent to do so. By groveling to get her back, you demonstrate you are worthless and unattractive to other women, thus making you even less attractive to your WW.



nystranger said:


> Our sex life went through the roof and for the next 3 weeks whenever I tried to ask her why she said what she did we would fight.


Through the roof? I think you mean down the toilet. Through the roof would be very good.



nystranger said:


> She eventually left me and our daughter and went to live with her father in the next town.


This is for a couple of reasons: she wants to be free to hang out on the internet with her cybersex partner and she also wants to be able to go out clubbing to get some local ****.



nystranger said:


> During those 1st 2 weeks I ended up needing emergencey surgery after tearing my acl in my knee and had to let my daughter go live with her and change schools. I did everything I shouldnt of to get her back. Pleading pouring my heart out saying id change and all I did was push her away.


No, she was already gone, man. You can't push her away when she's already gone. But, if you haven't figured it out, women aren't attracted to men with no self respect.



nystranger said:


> After my surgery I was on disibility at 50% pay and knowing I would not be able to keep our home is the reason I did the things I did. Desperation. Ive now lost our home and had to move 2hrs away to my mothers. My wife still has not been paid by this company and I am in search of a new job. We do communicate but only a little a bit about us. I do see my daughter as often as I can but Im miserable. My has said she still loves me and is physically attracted to me but she still is emotionally unattached.


Don't believe it. This is all a smokescreen. She's probably got at least one local boyfriend at this point. If you're still at Mom's house, go get your daughter. That was a bad move on your part.



nystranger said:


> I called her family about her involvement with this company and they had already knew.


And that's not all they know, either. 



nystranger said:


> I have gotten over most of my anxiety and depression but I still want to save my marriage and reconnect with my wife.


Pretty much impossible since she is not living at home and another guy(s) is taking care of her emotional and sexual requirements. You might have a shot if you can get her to move in with you, but you don't have a place. To her, you're looking very low value as a mate. What do you bring to the table? Do you understand the concept of female hypergamy?



nystranger said:


> I have done everything I can do to learn what to do and feel confident in myself and want use it to save my marriage.


From your comments above, I'd say you've learned the wrong lessons.



nystranger said:


> I am struggling with breaking the ice talking with her and not sure how to go about it. The tension between us seems almost gone but I need to regain her trust.


Regain her trust? What is she, some kind of blame-shifting Jedi? 



nystranger said:


> I know she is struggling and want to help but how do I go about bringing her back emotionally to me?


Basically, start acting like a guy on the move, with lots of female and professional options. You're acting like a guy living in Mom's basement.



nystranger said:


> She has no choice to continue contact with the other guy but has admitted there is no attraction to him other than as a friend and he is married as well.


The hell you say.



nystranger said:


> Please help I need reunite my family and make my marriage better.


Start with forgetting what you think you know about women and relationships.




nystranger said:


> To Growtogether: At one point she said that there was no chance to retrieve what we had but I believe it came from anger of being honest with her about my feelings and no it wasnt abusive on my end I told her the truth about something I had been carrying with since before we were married. She cheated on me 1.5yrs into our relationship although she said it didnt include sex.


What makes you think it didn't include sex? Because, she said it didn't? How old are you?



nystranger said:


> My guess would be maybe 3-5 out of 10. Honestly right now I do not know if she is commited to saving our marriage.


I'll spell it out for you: she is not committed to saving your marriage. You may be able to bring her around, but it's a long shot and you'll really have to overcome her blame shifting, your belief system, and your personality type to do it.



nystranger said:


> I am afraid to approach the subject out of fear that she might think I am trying to manipulate her emotions which she said to me in an email.


Anytime you try to convince someone of something, you're being manipulative, even if it's the truth. Manipulation is neutral, it means to handle something with your fingers (maniples). That can be good or bad.



nystranger said:


> In 15 years Ive known her never have I tried or heard say to me that I was being manipulating. I dont think those words came from her.


Could be one of her boyfriends. And try to tell me she doesn't have one, either. She's got at least one online and maybe more and I'm sure she's getting around town some. She's got a track record and, truth be told, it's longer than you think it is.



nystranger said:


> To KathyBatesel: In our arguments I did unfortunately express my feelings in a mean and hurtful way but it was in the heat of the moment.


This attitude is one reason she's not attractive to you. She must your balls in her purse. Women get turned on by masculine appearance, action, sexual aggression.



nystranger said:


> Never have Ive been verbally abusive to my wife. In the time I have known her only one time have I ever called a name in an argument and of course it was the worst word a man can call a woman and I regret it everyday.


What might that word be? Considering her extreme provocations, I can't imagine any word that would not be appropriate.



nystranger said:


> For years I have felt unappreciated and that nothing I ever did was good enough for her nor was I good enough for her. She acknowledges that for years she has talked to me in a belittling way in front of peers but never changed that habit and that is where my anger and emotions came from in arguments.


That's because she resented you for tricking her into marrying you. Your passivity was daily proof to her that she made a mistake. You tricked her.



nystranger said:


> I just returned from the library and *read a very helpful book* on communication and listening in relationships.


I seriously doubt it. What was the book?



nystranger said:


> Im still unsure if now is the time to share with my wife the things Ive learned or let things be. But everyday that goes by Im afraid of things getting worse. I dont know how to bring back her comfort level with me to talk to me about how she is feeling.


Read up above, she doesn't have a comfort level with you. She wants to be rid of you, so she can pursue other men without guilt. Actually, she's already doing that, but I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. 



nystranger said:


> I have considered it but with finances the way they are it is not possible at the moment.


If you could afford counseling, she'd have to agree to it; which if she did would only be to ease her conscience.



nystranger said:


> I just spoke with my wife and it wasn't a happy conversation. No arguing but heart felt about our feelings. She feels that the best thing for her, our daughter and me is a divorce.


See what I mean? How about that? She needs to get the divorce before you find out about all her extracurricular activities. This is right out of the playbook.



nystranger said:


> She feels that we would fall right back into the pattern of our past and that she is not happy with the person she is when we are together.


Because she is limbically (limbic system) repulsed by you due to your passivity. She knows she should be attracted to her in her prefrontal cortex, but she isn't and she doesn't understand why. Yet, she's going after other guys and she knows that's wrong, but she can't stop. You're very correct to "she is not happy with the person she is when we are together." That's because when she is away she experiences a lot less guilt.



nystranger said:


> I shared with her the things I have learned and she was appreciative of my effort but she said that she doesn't know if she has it in her to make the same effort.


See? What you learned has zero effect on her and zero effect on your situation. Those weren't the right lessons for the switch and it was just proved.



nystranger said:


> I was as positive as I could be about how together we can make things better with minimal effort. Her belief is that it would be in our daughters best interest for us to divorce. I dont understand that.


Look, you can understand this: she has to be able to explain all the men. It's hard to do if mommy and daddy are still married.



nystranger said:


> I was very encouraging and non combative and tried instill sincerity in my efforts which I believe she felt.


She felt it alright: she felt even more contempt for you as a man. You proved to her that she's making the right decision. You can't use reason to appeal to a woman's sexual response system. It is all limbic. She's getting it somewhere else and you're clueless. She hates you for that. If you were really her soulmate, you would have known ever time (that's the way women think). You didn't know the real source of the trouble in your marriage, but she did. If you were really in tune with her, like a soulmate, you would have known everything. You would have sensed the presence of another man. Your failure to do so proves you are an imposter and not the man she was meant to be with. Can you understand this?



nystranger said:


> But she still feels that she is not in love with me but admits that our relationship has had many more great moments then bad.


The above is true, no doubt.



nystranger said:


> She feels like we never had anything to talk about other than work.


That's the best negative she could come up with? Her Rationalization Hamster is running the show. Stereotype.



nystranger said:


> I told her that I believe in our marriage that we can use what we are learning about each other and build off it for a better future together and make a long lasting meaningful relationship..


Not without fundamental changes in your outlook and performance. But I have to tell you, I don't think this woman is any great prize. She sounds like she is nothing but a millstone, aside from being the mother of your child. Do you feel like you can't do better?

Also, since your wife put divorce on the table, you really need to establish paternity ASAP. I mean do it with DNA. Even if your daughter is your spitting image, you need to do it.



nystranger said:


> I think I approached it the right way and kept my mouth shut when she was talking no matter how painful the words I heard were I did my best to turn them into positives.


Good. When women want to talk relationship, they want to do the talking. Men need to act interested and hang on every word. Nine times out of ten, they'll finish, and if you keep quiet and just let them blow off steam, they'll go "thanks so much for listening." If you start putting your views out in a woman-like extended soliloquy, it's a limbic turnoff. Totally irrational, but that is the way it is. Women respond to actions, not words.



nystranger said:


> One thing she did say was that she is in limbo with our situation and I agreed the that I have the same feeling.


Actually, *you're* in limbo, because you don't know the whole story. She's got cards in play you don't even know about. You don't understand that she's comparing you to her new guys and your coming up short in the balance. Quietly educate yourself about her extramarital activities. Ignorance is not bliss. Knowledge is power. Especially in these circumstances.



nystranger said:


> She also admitted to this being her decision


See, she sees you as completely passive and having no agency of your own. Is this your personality in everything or just where women are involved?



nystranger said:


> and that emotionally she feels like she is in a better place the way things are. How can you be in an emotionally better place with the situation we are in and feeling like you're in limbo?


The guilt factor is reduced exponentially when she doesn't have to see your face.



nystranger said:


> *She never said no to both of us making a conscience effort into our relationship* but what happens from here on out has put back a lot of confusion in me.


Yeah, she did. You just weren't listening. 



nystranger said:


> I don't what to do now or how long to let this keep going on. I did tell her again that if divorce is the route she wants to take that I will seek custody of our daughter. Not out of spite or to be mean but because of my emotional connection to her. *She even admitted her selfishness caused some of our issues *but yet I dont feel an effort of change on her part. What to do?


Your wife is back in dating mode for the reasons given above. The only way to attract her is to move on, or give the appearance of moving on, as you raise your sex rank relative to the other men who are in her orbit.

Where would you rank yourself on the Male Socio-Sexual Hierarchy?


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Stranger, you are probably going to reject what follows, but following concepts represent your best, very slim, chance at fixing this. However, if you make these changes, you're probably going to be attracting women other than your wife. Higher quality women in fact. First I'm going to review your comments, then I'm going to make some recommendations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The reason I know she is not sexually active is because she lives in her fathers basement no life other than on her computer she gets no help from them with our daughter and no income on what little money I have been able to send.

Paternity not needed we needed invitro to have our daughter.
She can not have children with normal conception. Trust me we went through hell together to have a family.

I agree I need to get out and play the field problem is at 40 and 15yrs with the same woman its hard to get back on that horse. Plus I feel guilty about it.

I lost my job because of this. She had no problem walking out on her daughter and said the 2 weeks at her dads was the most stress free time shes had. No resposibility at all.

The guy she talks to online with her non paying job is in California. And dont think Im blind or dumb I know this as fact.

I know I may be a alittle delusional about whats going on but it is true I love my wife and always have. 

Today was the first time in a while we have talked about the situation we are in and it felt good to get it out regardless of what she said. My daughter is a concern and yes I understand letting her go live with her was mistake. I was in panic mode with my surgery and thought it was best. I know I was wrong.


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## jdd (Aug 30, 2013)

nystranger said:


> When we spoke I said to her that I didnt blame her for confiding in someone else emotionally cause I wasnt there for her when she needed me most. *I did not ask her to cut ties with him as to not make her feel pressured in anyway*. I am trying to instill her confidence in me to trust me again emotionally and I was afraid of sounding demanding without showing weakness I kept my composure and confidence that we still have something worth fighting for and that I believe in us becoming stronger together.


This makes you look very very weak to her and causes her to lose all respect for you. You can show compassion and understanding for the mistakes you made in the past when you were not there for her, but you have to be 100% firm that nothing improves until that relationship with the other man is terminated.

You will have a good chance of earning some respect back eventually by standing your ground. SHE WILL TEST YOU, she is going to push you and see if you hold your ground or not. It will be hard and she may say hurtful things to you, but you need to be firm that this guy has to go. She will never trust you or respect you if you allow another man to squeeze into your relationship. 

Fight for her, show her you have some... Call this guy up and let him know if he contacts your wife again he is going to have a serious problem. Tell the guy if he communicates with your wife again your will be on the next plane out to see him and you will be dealing with this face to face. No threats needed, if he has an ounce of brains he will get the point and will stop responding to your wifes attempts to contact him.

She will be very upset at this when you first do it, but if you don't do it, I guarantee you will be done.



nystranger said:


> I did ask if she had looked into divorce at all and her response was "A little." I mixed feelings about if she was really set on divorce or not. My hope right now is that she is thinking about the things I said and that she might see the value of our relationship after 15yrs.


She won't think about it, she is checked out, emotions turned off. Women are generally driven hard by emotions and she turned hers off to you. She compartmentalized and just shut down one area of her emotions. It's a hard thing for most men to get. Took me a long time to grasp.

The only thing that is going to have a chance of working now is to show her you have changed with consistent actions that support her, your family and your relationship. As I've said before, this can be a long soul crushing journey, she is checked out and you might have months and months of doing everything perfectly before she even acknowledges that your doing something she likes.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

nystranger said:


> The reason I know she is not sexually active is because she lives in her fathers basement no life other than on her computer she gets no help from them with our daughter and no income on what little money I have been able to send.


So she has no friends from before and she's made no friends since she's been back home. No other mothers in the neighborhood. Unless she has really big physical or mental issues, I think you're kidding yourself.

Is she disabled or something?



nystranger said:


> Paternity not needed we needed invitro to have our daughter.
> She can not have children with normal conception. Trust me we went through hell together to have a family.


Good.



nystranger said:


> I agree I need to get out and play the field problem is at 40 and 15yrs with the same woman its hard to get back on that horse. Plus I feel guilty about it.


Your wife is/was adulterous and has a problem with commitment, so dispense with the guilt. As for your age, are you kidding me? If you're 40 with a cheating wife you've been involved with for 15 years, you are going to be very very marketable with the ladies. You demonstrate commitment and your just a couple of year's past your peak attraction. You can easily pull 30 year olds, if you have a job and a good V torso physique (32 waist 46 chest) and don't have BO. The V torso is easy to get if you want it bad enough, but how are your job prospects looking?



nystranger said:


> I lost my job because of this. She had no problem walking out on her daughter and said the 2 weeks at her dads was the most stress free time shes had. No resposibility at all.


 I guess she must be super hot for you to want to stay with her.



nystranger said:


> The guy she talks to online with her non paying job is in California. And dont think Im blind or dumb I know this as fact.


Maybe he has money for an airplane ticket.



nystranger said:


> I know I may be a alittle delusional about whats going on but it is true I love my wife and always have.


That's part of why you're in this fix. You make things too easy and don't challenge her on anything. She knows you're in the bag and for some reason doesn't think any other woman would be interested in you enough to try to take you away. 



nystranger said:


> Today was the first time in a while we have talked about the situation we are in and it felt good to get it out regardless of what she said. My daughter is a concern and yes I understand letting her go live with her was mistake. I was in panic mode with my surgery and thought it was best. I know I was wrong.


Good, but it's done. Did you look at that link about the hierarchy? You need to start changing your behavior toward her. Quit telling her you love her. Start being brief on the phone. Avoid talking about the relationship. Be evasive about what you're up to. Only call to talk about the kid or business issues, and just be very sunny and up when you call her, like you're the happiest you've been in your entire life. No more hang dog. keep it brief and then talk to your daughter for as long as she'll pay attention.

How far away is your wife from where you live now?


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> So she has no friends from before and she's made no friends since she's been back home. No other mothers in the neighborhood. Unless she has really big physical or mental issues, I think you're kidding yourself.
> 
> Is she disabled or something?
> 
> ...


For the last 4 years she has been a stay at home mom. We moved to CT 2 years ago and the friends she had at our old place she alienated by making this internet company come first. She is not from CT and her dads place was never home until now. She sits in the basement all day on FB until our daughter gets home from school. After she goes to bed shes right back on her PC. She has no outside life. She is living in a fantasy world where she can pretend her life is perfect.

I live 2hrs away in Long Island and being on disibility from surgery funds are limited. Ive quit drinking to save money to go see my daughter when I can. New job hasnt started yet as I have just been approved to go back to work by doc. 

I undersdtand everything youre saying. I need to take my balls out of her purse and back in my pants. I have never been unfaithful to any woman I have ever been with and I know my situation gives me the freedom I have to get past the guilt. It is slowly happening like I said finding the answers to the cause and looking at myself has brought a calmness over me. I get mostly emotional now over not being with my daughter everyday. After my talk with the wife today I realized thats it Ive done all I can do now I need to focus on my health and own stability.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

nystranger said:


> For the last 4 years she has been a stay at home mom. We moved to CT 2 years ago and the friends she had at our old place she alienated by making this internet company come first. She is not from CT and her dads place was never home until now. She sits in the basement all day on FB until our daughter gets home from school. After she goes to bed shes right back on her PC. She has no outside life. She is living in a fantasy world where she can pretend her life is perfect.
> 
> I live 2hrs away in Long Island and being on disibility from surgery funds are limited. Ive quit drinking to save money to go see my daughter when I can. New job hasnt started yet as I have just been approved to go back to work by doc.
> 
> I undersdtand everything youre saying. I need to take my balls out of her purse and back in my pants. I have never been unfaithful to any woman I have ever been with and I know my situation gives me the freedom I have to get past the guilt. It is slowly happening like I said finding the answers to the cause and looking at myself has brought a calmness over me. I get mostly emotional now over not being with my daughter everyday. After my talk with the wife today I realized thats it Ive done all I can do now I need to focus on my health and own stability.


If she's really behaving that way (how do you know?), then she's well on way to being a crazy cat lady and there is zero you can do about it. Has she ever been treated for mental illness?

If you get yourself in top shape and are employed, you'll be able to attract many younger women, as I said.


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> If she's really behaving that way (how do you know?), then she's well on way to being a crazy cat lady and there is zero you can do about it. Has she ever been treated for mental illness?
> 
> If you get yourself in top shape and are employed, you'll be able to attract many younger women, as I said.


I can see a lot of the stuff she is doing on FB just from having her as a close friend and family. I dont stalk or use her password to log into her account. I wouldnt do that. Everything about her now is this company and the only people she interacts with are the other mind washed morons that work there without being paid. When she started working there it used to be about her family and friends on FB. I would get messages from friends of hers and her family asking what is going on with her and that they had to unfollow her because they got tired of seeing the spam. I told what they were saying to me and tried to warn her but she didnt care.

I believe she should be seen by someone but her father is a WHOLE nother story. When I had asked him a while back if what we were making right decisions about what is going on and how care and love his daughter. He made me feel like something is wrong with me and that I need therapy. I wouldnt be in mind state I am right now if I didnt seek out help in understanding my role in all that has gone on. 

I skyped with my daughter last night and asked her what she was going to do with her 3 day weekend and the wife screams across the room "you can take her this weekend if you want." Really put me on the spot because I know with gas and tolls its very expensive going back and forth. I want to go get her out of there but it was the deer in headlights feeling. My daughter loves her mother but I dont think she is emotionally there as well. She petrified to show any kind of emotion around her and she herself says how she has no one to play with. She wouldnt take her bike or scooter back with her that she got for xmas because she would never get to use them. 

I will be getting some legal advice today. I cant let this go on for much longer and need to take action soon. My daughter deserves to be a kid.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

If you mother can help watch your daughter, go get her and keep her with you. I think your wife considers her a nuisance.


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> If you mother can help watch your daughter, go get her and keep her with you. I think your wife considers her a nuisance.


Thats the feeling Im getting and after talking with the mom in law last night she had told me during their week up at her house the wife was very impatient with our daughter. Why do I have the feeling this is going to get very messy. I really dont want it to but I dont see it going any other way. The hockey player in me is starting to take over and I want to drop the gloves with the guy she is talking to online and her dad at the same time rearrange some teeth.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

nystranger said:


> Thats the feeling Im getting and after talking with the mom in law last night she had told me during their week up at her house the wife was very impatient with our daughter. Why do I have the feeling this is going to get very messy. I really dont want it to but I dont see it going any other way. The hockey player in me is starting to take over and I want to drop the gloves with the guy she is talking to online and her dad at the same time rearrange some teeth.


It's good to get your ire up for motivation, but you can never let them know you're getting hot about anything. 

Ice man all the way. Get the kid.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> It's good to get your ire up for motivation, but you can never let them know you're getting hot about anything.
> 
> Ice man all the way. Get the kid.


Big Mach, we have some rescent postings, were some of the TAM members have had enough and actually were able to put a pounding on OM's. One guy blacked both the guys eyes and bodyslammed him at the end of the driveway, and then told the OM that he can have her, and told her she can take her $hit and leave.

I was wondering if you seen any of these stories. It's like 3 rescent stories. There's also a story where the BS and BW cheated on the OM and WW. It really diminished their view of the affair. Also the BS and BW both filed for divorced and got together on a long term relationship. The OM said that was a dirty dirty thing he did, and the WW felt stupid.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Mach, that link to the socio-sexual hierarchy is weird to me as a female. The men I've dated that resemble what he calls Alpha are the men I've always walked away from because their insecurities became controlling. The men I would consider alpha are like what Atown described in the comments.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Mach, that link to the socio-sexual hierarchy is weird to me as a female. The men I've dated that resemble what he calls Alpha are the men I've always walked away from because their insecurities became controlling.


Well, in a way Vox is muddying the waters by mixing pure sexual success with social success and he says as much in his intro. The reason is that social success feeds sexual success, although it doesn't necessarily flow in reverse. And of course, Vox's classification system has limitations as well, but the Alphas are the very top self-assured, socially and sexually successful 2-5%. I'm not sure a guy with insecurities, as you put it, could be called "alpha." He might be controlling of his harem, but it's not because of insecurity about women, since he has a line formed outside his bedroom door.

Remember, alpha does not mean "good man." It means the guy who gets laid the most while being a social "insider."



KathyBatesel said:


> The men I would consider alpha are like what Atown described in the comments.


I think Atown's observation about a social outsider classification between Sigma and Gamma does have some validity, but very few men are "pure" in any of these classes.

Again, "alpha" is the chimpanzee term hung on men who get the most sex and have the biggest flock of groupies, just like the alpha chimps, the privileged sexual elite, as it were. What do those men have in common? Traits that are dubbed "alpha traits." 

You may not like those men or their traits, but they get the most action. And because of that, they get the title. We could change the term "Alpha" to "Pipe" and just say Pipe gets laid the most.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Big Mach, we have some rescent postings, were some of the TAM members have had enough and actually were able to put a pounding on OM's. One guy blacked both the guys eyes and bodyslammed him at the end of the driveway, and then told the OM that he can have her, and told her she can take her $hit and leave.
> 
> I was wondering if you seen any of these stories. It's like 3 rescent stories. There's also a story where the BS and BW cheated on the OM and WW. It really diminished their view of the affair. Also the BS and BW both filed for divorced and got together on a long term relationship. The OM said that was a dirty dirty thing he did, and the WW felt stupid.


I did read one of those and also the one where the BH and BW got together. It's always nice when people get what they have coming.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Ny do you know exactly who Mr California is? His wife ought to get a heads up as to his online activities. Do you have access to their communication? Have you actually seen or heard it?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

NYStranger

Glad you are listening to Mach.

Toughen up my friend. Get back to work.

Get the kid. Get custody.

Because your wife is seriously screwed up.

How do I know? Any mother that would leave their daughter with their father for two weeks has a serious character flaw.

It is not just her emotional affair making her act like this. There is something really wrong with her.

Get your kid back and start fixing your life.

HM


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## nystranger (Jan 13, 2014)

SadandAngry said:


> Ny do you know exactly who Mr California is? His wife ought to get a heads up as to his online activities. Do you have access to their communication? Have you actually seen or heard it?


I dont have access to the chats but I did over hear a conversation one night after I confronted my wife about how she was neglecting her family life for this company and he fed into her weakened emotional state. First thing she ever told me about this guy after being on a conference call with him was how he is good at talking people into doing things he needs done and here she tells me Im trying to manipulate her emotions. :scratchhead: He has even told her now that her load at work has lightened he can use her to do more projects for him. He even has 2 FB pages one says single the other says married. My wifes ego is so inflated right now Im not sure if there is any chance to bring her back to reality. She is definitely not the same woman she was 6 months ago.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

nystranger said:


> I dont have access to the chats but I did over hear a conversation one night after I confronted my wife about how she was neglecting her family life for this company and he fed into her weakened emotional state. First thing she ever told me about this guy after being on a conference call with him was how he is good at talking people into doing things he needs done and here she tells me Im trying to manipulate her emotions. :scratchhead: He has even told her now that her load at work has lightened he can use her to do more projects for him. He even has 2 FB pages one says single the other says married. My wifes ego is so inflated right now Im not sure if there is any chance to bring her back to reality. She is definitely not the same woman she was 6 months ago.


Getting thrown under the bus by a user desperate to cover his own ass is a remarkably effective reintroduction to reality for many wayward spouses. All of a sudden the so called soulmate isn't acting the part, or feeding the fantasy.


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