# Womens Opinion on Ann Summers & Clubbing



## Lostwithouthope

Hey Ladies

I need some advice hopefully the title would give you some insite into the situation in hand. Basically my wife is planning a Ann Summers party in june and they are planning to go out after, at this point i was cool with it no problem.

Then my wife tells me that he and her friend are going clubbing in some nightie's, ok curveball. I approached the situation lightly becuase i didn't want to approach it being overcontrolling on what she wears out.

Basically the nightly is more like a long sleeved shirt with some innappropriate/adultry writing on it i.e. "Im good a sucking", i am more concerned for the unwanted attention that she will get knowing that clubbing is more like a meat market and drunken men seeing this will be an opportunity to try it on or make some stupid comment. 

So girls whats your view on this? i have put my concerns across that this will lead to unwanted attention and to seriously think about whether she would wear this?

Thanks


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## jfv

From what i understand the Ann Summers parties are women only right? So she would only be wearing this outfit around other women. 

Now she wants to move the line and wear this around other men and alcohol?

It doesn't sound like an Anne summers party at that point so:

Why aren't you going with her?

Why is she combining anne summers with a meat market?

DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN! Make sure she knows that the consequences as far as your marriage is concerned will be grave. 

Send her the message that YOUR WIFE doesn't go around wearing things like that in front of men that aren't YOU.


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## PreRaphaelite

I'm not a woman but I'll tell you this. 

Let's suppose I was out at a club one night and I saw a woman with that written on her shirt. I'd say to myself that b***h is looking for some action from a bad boy, and if someone told me she was married my response would be that I'm glad I'm not her husband.


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## SimplyAmorous

PreRaphaelite said:


> I'm not a woman but I'll tell you this.
> 
> Let's suppose I was out at a club one night and I saw a woman with that written on her shirt. I'd say to myself that b***h is looking for some action from a bad boy, and if someone told me she was married my response would be that I'm glad I'm not her husband.



She is going to wear a shirt that says ... "I'm good at sucking"....where men are looking to hook up, dancing & downing the booze.... Really [email protected]#$%^&,

PreRaphaelite's post is pretty much how my own husband would feel....without using the term "Bi**ch" (but he might insert another word in there)...as reading the words on their shirts = instant "advertising" to PLAY. 

I would probably enjoy such a party, never heard of it...just looked it up >> Ann Summers Party! ....I think that would be a HOOT with the ladies.. more fun than Tupperware!... but the rest is just going way too far..

I've never been one to even care about a Girls Night out, doesn't do anything for me...so I'm probably a little biased....but still -just using reason & RESPECT alone.....any husband would be outraged.....wearing an inscription like that out & about...that phrase is just something you keep at home between the 2 of you...not meant to EVER be seen by another man. Period.


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## Suspecting

Is this Ann Summers Party like Dinah Shore Weekend (girls only party)? In that case as a husband I would be more worried about that detail. And going clubbing in a nightie t-shirt is like asking for sexual harassment. I mean, she's not going to wear pants at all?


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## ScarletBegonias

I don't think a woman should go clubbing without her husband.I don't care if she's with "Her girls" or not.If SO told me he was going clubbing with his boys I would flat out tell him if he goes he can stay gone.
The Ann Summers party,eh,whatever.I'm not into it but I guess other ladies find this sort of thing entertaining.


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## Almostrecovered

hmmmm....

get all aroused at a sex toy/lingerie party and go out clubbing with a shirt basically stating you want to hook up

what could possibly go wrong?


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## tulsy

Almostrecovered said:


> hmmmm....
> 
> get all aroused at a sex toy/lingerie party and go out clubbing with a shirt basically stating you want to hook up
> 
> what could possibly go wrong?


Exactly.

WTF is wrong with these women? This is ridiculous.

I guess you are just controlling and insecure if you don't go along with this crap. Let her go 5LUT it up for the night....then change the locks and throw all her chit in garage bags out on the porch. 

Is this what you thought marriage was going to be? This is single girl stuff, and single girls that I would never waste my time with.


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## Suspecting

Almostrecovered said:


> hmmmm....
> 
> get all aroused at a sex toy/lingerie party and go out clubbing with a shirt basically stating you want to hook up
> 
> what could possibly go wrong?


That is if they don't hookup at the party already... But hey there will be no "hooks" because it's a ladies only party. I guess they will just "demonstrate" how the toys work 50 shades style?


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## Almostrecovered

a typical sex toy party is not a lez fest as you'd like to imagine, usually it's a lot of giggles and girl talk

but the after party is certainly not within the realms of good boundaries imo


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## Shaggy

The point of the party is for married women to buy sexy things for use in their relationship. Ok, so far.

But then to head out to clubs wearing it to attract men. Not ok.

How would she feel if you took the same amount of money shell be spending at the party buy stuff, and you went to a club without her and spent that money buying drinks for the girls you'd be meeting there?

It's basically the same use of that money, to go out and attract strangers and see if you meet anyone who interests you.


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## Aunt Ava

Ask her why she feels the need to parade around practically naked in front of strange men? 

If she is under the delusion that she will feel empowered please feel free to set her straight. Going to a club in a state of undress basically screams I have no self worth, I am anyone's for the taking.


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## Anon Pink

ScarletBegonias said:


> I don't think a woman should go clubbing without her husband.I don't care if she's with "Her girls" or not..


What if her husband won't go? What if she married a man who hates to dance while she loves to dance? Does she never go to a dance club again? Does she drag her H along with the girls, so he can find a corner and sit and brood about all the good television he's missing?

So, obviously,I do go to night clubs with the girls a very times a year. Not a big deal in and off itself. But wearing a nighty, after an evening of boundary pushing...? Think you should just tell her you'll meet her at th club, you'll be the dashing pirate with the eye patch


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## Shaggy

Whichever woman in the group that came up with the idea of going out after the party to a club to act singer and attract guys, is either currently single or is going to be down the road. Her priority isn't to get home to show stuff off to her guy, it's to exclude him and to run out and show off to strangers,

You only run that kind of marketing campaign when you are trying to sell something.


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## Suspecting

Almostrecovered said:


> a typical sex toy party is not a lez fest as you'd like to imagine, usually it's a lot of giggles and girl talk
> 
> but the after party is certainly not within the realms of good boundaries imo


How would you know? You're a guy, right? The link SimplyAmorous provided says "Ann Summers 50 shades VIP parties". I kinda makes me wonder.


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## ScarletBegonias

Anon Pink said:


> What if her husband won't go? What if she married a man who hates to dance while she loves to dance? Does she never go to a dance club again? Does she drag her H along with the girls, so he can find a corner and sit and brood about all the good television he's missing?
> 
> So, obviously,I do go to night clubs with the girls a very times a year. Not a big deal in and off itself. But wearing a nighty, after an evening of boundary pushing...? Think you should just tell her you'll meet her at th club, you'll be the dashing pirate with the eye patch


If someone feels the need to party and club without their husband once in a while,that's of course their choice.I don't have to condone it or agree with it.I think it's a bad idea so I choose not to engage in that sort of thing.

To be fair to the ladies who like clubbing and dancing,I'll admit it's harder for me to understand the girls night thing. I'm not into it like I was when I was 21.The older I get,the more annoying and pointless "the girls" become.

I am curious though,why spend life with someone who can't take an active interest in this love for dancing and clubbing?I always thought part of being in a relationship was taking an active interest in the other person's hobbies and favorite things.


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## Nsweet

You're all reading too much into this. If you want to know if his suspicions are true, then you have read the other signs in congruency... 3 or more signs. 

OK, what do we know? Wife is going to a sex toy party in a shirt that says "I'm good at sucking", and then they're all going out to a club for drinking and dancing. Is that all? How has their marriage been so far? Is she pulling away or way too extremely nice so he won't suspect? Is she working out for the first time in years and buying new panty and bra sets to go with that shirt? 

What I want to know is what are the other women wearing? Women don't have to dress up that much to attract men, but they go way overboard to impress other women. I'm thinking so long as she's not the sl*ttiest one, there shouldn't be a problem. *And if she's doing this to get a rise out of her husband, possibly to control him with jealousy and push him into playing the abusive husband, he's better off letting her do her thing while he goes out to a strip club with the guys. Hey, neither one of them will likely get any action with the friends of hers being a c*ckblock buffer, and what with the known no touching rules in strip clubs. But they'll both get that spark from the mutual jealousy.*


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## Almostrecovered

Suspecting said:


> How would you know? You're a guy, right? The link SimplyAmorous provided says "Ann Summers 50 shades VIP parties". I kinda makes me wonder.



keep your hands where we can see them


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## Lostwithouthope

Wow ton of responses, the idea came from a previous ann summers party. It was the idea of her single friend which she went along with.

We are currently going through a rocky patch atm, but the clothes they would wear would be with tights but i feel that this wouldn't make any difference. I have set my feeling and opinions across to her when she told me that they are all going in a group i.e. 5 women doing it then i can see a no big issue, however if it's only 2 then i am not particulary pleased about it and to think before doing it. I can't control what she wears out im her husband not her parent, however if she ever proceeds to dip the wick then her bags will be surely packed.

OK how would you guys approach in a manner avoiding arguements. 

Thanks

David


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## Nsweet

That's one thing I'm surprised no woman here has discussed yet, the actual female psychology involving girl's nights out. What happens when women get together in groups and have nothing left to talk about? THEY GOSSIP! And what happens when larger groups of women eventually separate into smaller groups? They talk trash about the other women they're with. 

Ordinarily I'd say his wife is safe, because anything she does can and will be used against her. *BUT let's look at the signs now.* Rocky patch? Single friends still into clubbing?Friends who are bad influences? New sl*tty clothes? I'm assuming no sex in a while? *She's not cheating yet SHE'S JUST EXPERIMENTING WITH SINGLE LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* BIG RED FLAG for your marriage being a few months from an affair and about 6-12 months from the actual divorce process.


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## Lostwithouthope

Sex life isn't too bad atm, 1-2 every week, However i do feel that she is boored with me and wants to know if the grass is greener on the other side. She saids she go out alot because she gets boored watching tv ect.. she works 3 nights a week, we have a child so as you can see we haven't always got the time and money to go out. 

Btw the shirt doesn't say "im good at sucking" it was an example, however they are all similar. How would you approach your wife/gf is this sort of situation??


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## thatbpguy

Maybe tell her, "fine, I'm going to be at a local strip club looking for lap dances", and see what she says.


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## Nsweet

If you even hope to stand a chance Lostwithouthope, wow bad use of phrase there, you better listen up to what I'm about to tell you. 

*You're going to let her go party and you're going to act like you act you're not jealous, even though you are. You're going to act happy she's leaving and tell her how you're glad to see her having fun.* 

The reason why you're going to act happy and indifferent is because she's baiting you into being Mr. Possessive so she can claim you're keeping her from enjoying herself and then further blame shift everything she can imagine on you..... Which would give her mind the justification she needs to cheat on you. So you're going to let her do it this time with a smile on your face and a hug before she goes.

Then while she's gone you're going to do all the chores on your "Honey Do" list, making sure you clean the kitchen and the bathroom, and you're going to think up something romantic to surprise her with when she comes home.... Something little and inexpensive like something she might like for breakfast, maybe breakfast pastries or whatever, and you're going to stay out of her way when she comes home drunk and partied out.... Whatever you do don't sleep with her!

*And before any alpha idiot jerk comes in here telling me I'm wrong, just let me explain. * 

The reason why you want to do all of this is because she's just been tested every which way by bad influences who make single life look good, and there's a very likely chance she's just been trash talking you the whole night to these women who are just picking apart your marriage and telling her what she wants to hear to make her feel good. So you want to make her feel really bad about anything she said you've done by showing her you're not that guy(not grilling her the second she enters the door), and you want to start melting her heart before she completely turns cold towards you. 

Oh yeah, the sex thing. In the off chance she does cheat on you, which it's kind of too soon for that, but you never know. If she does cheat on you she's probably not going to use protection because that would involve planning and taking responsibility, she's biologically wired to seduce you and have two male's sperm compete. You don't want to take the risk of catching an STD off of some other guy and you really don't want to take custody for a kid that's not yours. So don't fall for that trick.... Hey, if she wouldn't let you use her for sex, you wouldn't let her use you for sex. 

Another thing, you got to steal your wife away from these women by charming her back to marriage. These women are most likely going to convince her to divorce you so they can have another buddy in their sad party life, and they're going to treat you like crap and be constantly fishing for information by pretending to care about what you say. Rule of thumb here is if you get the hibie jibies and gut feeling that her friends don't have your best interest in mind, you just don't talk to them. You let your wife do the talking and you make sire you follow through with your own 180, which in this case involves agreeing with her, and getting away from her.... She's pulling away(if you can't tell) so you should be too.


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## Anon Pink

ScarletBegonias said:


> If someone feels the need to party and club without their husband once in a while,that's of course their choice.I don't have to condone it or agree with it.I think it's a bad idea so I choose not to engage in that sort of thing.
> 
> To be fair to the ladies who like clubbing and dancing,I'll admit it's harder for me to understand the girls night thing. I'm not into it like I was when I was 21.The older I get,the more annoying and pointless "the girls" become.
> 
> I am curious though,why spend life with someone who can't take an active interest in this love for dancing and clubbing?I always thought part of being in a relationship was taking an active interest in the other person's hobbies and favorite things.


I'm sorry you find your friends annoying and pointless. I love my girls! They are far from annoying and I cherish them! The older I get, I'm 50, the more I cherish my friends.

Mr. Pink cant dance. Over the years I've tried to interest him in many things... but...no go. He also doesn't do well in crowded night clubs and ends up sulking, so, no thanks! He doesn't like spending money on theater tickets, or dressing up for anything. I have seen one broadway play in all the years we've been married and I used to go to NY for plays several times a year. He is a stick in the mud with a heart of gold. We are VERY different people and it is a constant struggle.

I don't know how old you are or if you have kids... But after spending more than 20 years of putting my family first, spending ALL our free time on one field or another, spending what seems a life time transporting from one activity to another, I reached a point where I wanted to spend time doing things I enjoyed, and that includes dancing, seeing plays and spending time with people I cherish.


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## ScarletBegonias

Anon Pink said:


> I'm sorry you find your friends annoying and pointless. I love my girls! They are far from annoying and I cherish them! The older I get, I'm 50, the more I cherish my friends.
> 
> Mr. Pink cant dance. Over the years I've tried to interest him in many things... but...no go. He also doesn't do well in crowded night clubs and ends up sulking, so, no thanks! He doesn't like spending money on theater tickets, or dressing up for anything. I have seen one broadway play in all the years we've been married and I used to go to NY for plays several times a year. He is a stick in the mud with a heart of gold. We are VERY different people and it is a constant struggle.
> 
> I don't know how old you are or if you have kids... But after spending more than 20 years of putting my family first, spending ALL our free time on one field or another, spending what seems a life time transporting from one activity to another, I reached a point where I wanted to spend time doing things I enjoyed, and that includes dancing, seeing plays and spending time with people I cherish.


Good for you:smthumbup:


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## Anon Pink

Nsweet said:


> If you even hope to stand a chance Lostwithouthope, wow bad use of phrase there, you better listen up to what I'm about to tell you.
> 
> *You're going to let her go party and you're going to act like you act you're not jealous, even though you are. You're going to act happy she's leaving and tell her how you're glad to see her having fun.*
> 
> The reason why you're going to act happy and indifferent is because she's baiting you into being Mr. Possessive so she can claim you're keeping her from enjoying herself and then further blame shift everything she can imagine on you..... Which would give her mind the justification she needs to cheat on you. So you're going to let her do it this time with a smile on your face and a hug before she goes.
> 
> Then while she's gone you're going to do all the chores on your "Honey Do" list, making sure you clean the kitchen and the bathroom, and you're going to think up something romantic to surprise her with when she comes home.... Something little and inexpensive like something she might like for breakfast, maybe breakfast pastries or whatever, and you're going to stay out of her way when she comes home drunk and partied out.... Whatever you do don't sleep with her!
> 
> *And before any alpha idiot jerk comes in here telling me I'm wrong, just let me explain. *
> 
> The reason why you want to do all of this is because she's just been tested every which way by bad influences who make single life look good, and there's a very likely chance she's just been trash talking you the whole night to these women who are just picking apart your marriage and telling her what she wants to hear to make her feel good. So you want to make her feel really bad about anything she said you've done by showing her you're not that guy(not grilling her the second she enters the door), and you want to start melting her heart before she completely turns cold towards you.
> 
> Oh yeah, the sex thing. In the off chance she does cheat on you, which it's kind of too soon for that, but you never know. If she does cheat on you she's probably not going to use protection because that would involve planning and taking responsibility, she's biologically wired to seduce you and have two male's sperm compete. You don't want to take the risk of catching an STD off of some other guy and you really don't want to take custody for a kid that's not yours. So don't fall for that trick.... Hey, if she wouldn't let you use her for sex, you wouldn't let her use you for sex.
> 
> Another thing, you got to steal your wife away from these women by charming her back to marriage. These women are most likely going to convince her to divorce you so they can have another buddy in their sad party life, and they're going to treat you like crap and be constantly fishing for information by pretending to care about what you say. Rule of thumb here is if you get the hibie jibies and gut feeling that her friends don't have your best interest in mind, you just don't talk to them. You let your wife do the talking and you make sire you follow through with your own 180, which in this case involves agreeing with her, and getting away from her.... She's pulling away(if you can't tell) so you should be too.



:iagree:

I'm sorry to say, OP, you really should memorize this post and follow it to the TEE!


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## Jellybeans

Lostwithouthope said:


> Then my wife tells me that he and her friend are going clubbing in some nightie's
> 
> Basically the nightly is more like a long sleeved shirt with some innappropriate/adultry writing on it i.e.* "Im good a sucking"*


If I saw a woman outside wearing this, I would automatically think TRASH.

It says a lot about your wife that she'd even consider wearing something like that outdoors, especially at a club. You don't have to agree with me at all and but I think only gutter-type women would do something like this. 

Oh and it goes both ways, when I see a man wearing sh*t like "Must be this tall to ride" or "I want you to sit on my face" I have exactly the same opinion.

To learn that either the man or woman are married makes me think they 1. don't give a frock about their spouse, 2. have an open relationship 3. are trash that I don't want to be associated with. I would not want to be seen with someone wearing things like that.

I'm just saying.


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## Jellybeans

thatbpguy said:


> Maybe tell her, "fine, I'm going to be at a local strip club looking for lap dances", and see what she says.


:iagree: and tell her you are going to wear a "I am good at licking" shirt


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## Suspecting

thatbpguy said:


> Maybe tell her, "fine, I'm going to be at a local strip club looking for lap dances", and see what she says.


Wearing only Calvin Klein boxers and a tie, naturally.


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## Maricha75

Suspecting said:


> Wearing only Calvin Klein boxers and a tie, naturally.


No no! He has to wear a t-shirt and/or pj pants! You know, keeping with the whole night time attire.


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## Lostwithouthope

Ok update,

I had a quick txt with her about our chat, i basically said don't you think this something between couples, and this is something singles would wear to get attention.

Her response was, fine i'm not going as i dont want to feel like the odd one out as usual. 

She has made her mind up, should of read this before sending my message.


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## Suspecting

Maricha75 said:


> No no! He has to wear a t-shirt and/or pj pants! You know, keeping with the whole night time attire.


OK, no tie then only boxers! And maybe Camel boots GTX.


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## Nsweet

Lostwithouthope said:


> Sex life isn't too bad atm, 1-2 every week, However i do feel that she is bored with me and wants to know if the grass is greener on the other side. She said she go out alot because she gets bored watching tv ect.. she works 3 nights a week, we have a child so as you can see we haven't always got the time and money to go out.
> 
> Btw the shirt doesn't say "im good at sucking" it was an example, however they are all similar. How would you approach your wife/gf is this sort of situation??


I wouldn't approach my wife without a lawyer and the police present. Mainly because she's my ex wife and aside from cheating she's already filed false charges. Not fun! That's why I'm quick to warn others about staying away from irate spouses lest they go through the same thing. 

But your situation is simple, you're wife is bored and right around the corner from one of those "grass is greener" affairs. She's bored because you're completely submissive in this relationship, she's got you no matter what and doesn't need to fight for you. And she's bored because she's submitted herself to the belief that married people are not supposed to have fun and are supposed to leave behind hobbies to be boring parents. NOT TRUE! 

The way you fix this is you get a life she would want to join and you both have fun until you're ready to go back to normal. But don't make the mistake of HIS and HERS separate lives. I'm talking about you doing your thing a few hours a week, her doing her thing a couple hours a week, and then you both spending about 15-20hrs a week talking and finding out more about each other. And for you that better be fitness oriented and something exciting.

Ok, so she wants to go out and flirt and party at clubs. You can just as easily hire a cheap sitter and go out and do your thing too. But no partying, you're better than that. I'm talking about taking up a sport or going to things like cooking classes every month. If you can't afford it I know for a fact you find free and cheap groups around you like bowling leagues and salsa dance classes.... And they have them like in the normal hours you'd get off of work. 

The thing is you just want to get out of the house while she's misbehaving so you're not thinking about her, and you want create mystery about yourself so she can't cake-eat knowing her husband is sitting at home and waiting for her to get home and lie again. Really the most under-appreciated part of the 180 is getting out there and meeting other women who might want you and changing yourself from fatherly slob into that guy women would marry in a heart beat. Oh yeah, you start putting on cologne and getting in shape, maybe having female frirends you wife can't drive away... She's going to want you more. 

There's just something to be said about a nice guy who doesn't need women. You fix yourself up and start learning proper boundaries so you can meet women and not be terrified about finding yourself cheating, because you know when to walk away and you put your foot down. A nice guy who won't let his wife change the rules and break the rules so she can cheat, that guy is going to be more attractive than the stay at home have no friends dad who waits for his wife to get home. 

And really I'm telling you not to cheat and to go out there and make friends who you can have fun with. Men, women, doesn't matter... but you need to find someone besides your wife you can call a friend, because wives do not make friends when you're stuck together 24/7 and start to take things out on each other. You at least need a friend you can adventure with and a friend you can talk to.


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## Nsweet

Lostwithouthope said:


> Ok update,
> 
> I had a quick txt with her about our chat, i basically said don't you think this something between couples, and this is something singles would wear to get attention.
> 
> Her response was, fine i'm not going as i dont want to feel like the odd one out as usual.
> 
> She has made her mind up, should of read this before sending my message.


Well then guess what Buddy.... You better break out dancing shoes and clean yourself up, because you're taking her out *TONIGHT!*

That woman had her heart set on going out for a little fun, so much so that she bought herself an outfit she probably spent hours picking out, and you just rained on her parade. So you're going to be the one to give her that fun and tell her what she really want to hear. 

*You're going to tell her how much she means to you and how you appreciate her for all the sacrifices she's making to be a good wife and mother, you're tell her exactly why it is you love her, and above all you're going to apologize to her for not listening to her and not taking her feeling into consideration in all those fights you had before. *

If I were you I would get to work *NOW* on making a list of all the reasons you love her and appreciate her for every little thing, and you're going to try your best to put in words why it was you picked her out of all the other women in the world. Even if you don't use everything you're going to keep that list in your wallet and keep adding to it everyday. 

And if you want your wife to stay you're wife you're going to learn to listen to what she says before she's yelling, do what she asks before she nags, make her feel loved and appreciated everyday, and you're going to make an effort to keep working on yourself.... The thing about divorced husbands and husband-husbands is you guys don't get a lot of time to self reflect so you better listen what we have to say and learn how to not make the same mistakes we did.


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## Lostwithouthope

Nsweet said:


> Well then guess what Buddy.... You better break out dancing shoes and clean yourself up, because you're taking her out *TONIGHT!*
> 
> That woman had her heart set on going out for a little fun, so much so that she bought herself an outfit she probably spent hours picking out, and you just rained on her parade. So you're going to be the one to give her that fun and tell her what she really want to hear.
> 
> *You're going to tell her how much she means to you and how you appreciate her for all the sacrifices she's making to be a good wife and mother, you're tell her exactly why it is you love her, and above all you're going to apologize to her for not listening to her and not taking her feeling into consideration in all those fights you had before. *
> 
> If I were you I would get to work *NOW* on making a list of all the reasons you love her and appreciate her for every little thing, and you're going to try your best to put in words why it was you picked her out of all the other women in the world. Even if you don't use everything you're going to keep that list in your wallet and keep adding to it everyday.
> 
> And if you want your wife to stay you're wife you're going to learn to listen to what she says before she's yelling, do what she asks before she nags, make her feel loved and appreciated everyday, and you're going to make an effort to keep working on yourself.... The thing about divorced husbands and husband-husbands is you guys don't get a lot of time to self reflect so you better listen what we have to say and learn how to not make the same mistakes we did.



She hasn't picked anything because she was going to look before she brought it, i regards to the second part i can do.

2nd issue we have is my sister is having a baby anytime soon so there will be no babysitter and none of our friends can do it.

She wants to go shopping tonight how enjoyable


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## humanbecoming

*Re: Re: Womens Opinion on Ann Summers & Clubbing*



Nsweet said:


> If you even hope to stand a chance Lostwithouthope, wow bad use of phrase there, you better listen up to what I'm about to tell you.
> 
> *You're going to let her go party and you're going to act like you act you're not jealous, even though you are. You're going to act happy she's leaving and tell her how you're glad to see her having fun.*
> 
> The reason why you're going to act happy and indifferent is because she's baiting you into being Mr. Possessive so she can claim you're keeping her from enjoying herself and then further blame shift everything she can imagine on you..... Which would give her mind the justification she needs to cheat on you. So you're going to let her do it this time with a smile on your face and a hug before she goes.
> 
> Then while she's gone you're going to do all the chores on your "Honey Do" list, making sure you clean the kitchen and the bathroom, and you're going to think up something romantic to surprise her with when she comes home.... Something little and inexpensive like something she might like for breakfast, maybe breakfast pastries or whatever, and you're going to stay out of her way when she comes home drunk and partied out.... Whatever you do don't sleep with her!
> 
> *And before any alpha idiot jerk comes in here telling me I'm wrong, just let me explain. *
> 
> The reason why you want to do all of this is because she's just been tested every which way by bad influences who make single life look good, and there's a very likely chance she's just been trash talking you the whole night to these women who are just picking apart your marriage and telling her what she wants to hear to make her feel good. So you want to make her feel really bad about anything she said you've done by showing her you're not that guy(not grilling her the second she enters the door), and you want to start melting her heart before she completely turns cold towards you.
> 
> Oh yeah, the sex thing. In the off chance she does cheat on you, which it's kind of too soon for that, but you never know. If she does cheat on you she's probably not going to use protection because that would involve planning and taking responsibility, she's biologically wired to seduce you and have two male's sperm compete. You don't want to take the risk of catching an STD off of some other guy and you really don't want to take custody for a kid that's not yours. So don't fall for that trick.... Hey, if she wouldn't let you use her for sex, you wouldn't let her use you for sex.
> 
> Another thing, you got to steal your wife away from these women by charming her back to marriage. These women are most likely going to convince her to divorce you so they can have another buddy in their sad party life, and they're going to treat you like crap and be constantly fishing for information by pretending to care about what you say. Rule of thumb here is if you get the hibie jibies and gut feeling that her friends don't have your best interest in mind, you just don't talk to them. You let your wife do the talking and you make sire you follow through with your own 180, which in this case involves agreeing with her, and getting away from her.... She's pulling away(if you can't tell) so you should be too.


As a married man, and someone who is actually out of my teens, I would much rather she move on then to have to spend the rest of my life gaming the person who supposedly committed themselves to me.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

If she's bored and interested in the toy party, I suggest you go along shopping with her happily, only pop into a toy store. Let her get revved up and excited about what the TWO of you are going to do that night. Let HER pick the things you buy. 

Where will the kids be during shopping? If they have to come with you, I suggest you stay in the car and let her pick something out for 'later'. Or maybe just park, tell her you'll be right back, go in the store and when you come out, don't tell her what you bought. The rest of the evening will be full of sexy winks, curiosity and eager to get the kids into bed.

If she's bored with life, spice it up.


----------



## humanbecoming

*Re: Re: Womens Opinion on Ann Summers & Clubbing*



Anon Pink said:


> I'm sorry you find your friends annoying and pointless. I love my girls! They are far from annoying and I cherish them! The older I get, I'm 50, the more I cherish my friends.
> 
> Mr. Pink cant dance. Over the years I've tried to interest him in many things... but...no go. He also doesn't do well in crowded night clubs and ends up sulking, so, no thanks! He doesn't like spending money on theater tickets, or dressing up for anything. I have seen one broadway play in all the years we've been married and I used to go to NY for plays several times a year. He is a stick in the mud with a heart of gold. We are VERY different people and it is a constant struggle.
> 
> I don't know how old you are or if you have kids... But after spending more than 20 years of putting my family first, spending ALL our free time on one field or another, spending what seems a life time transporting from one activity to another, I reached a point where I wanted to spend time doing things I enjoyed, and that includes dancing, seeing plays and spending time with people I cherish.


So basically, you have a typical TV sitcom marriage, where you are together out of inertia. 

No thanks.

I think the problem here is the op's wife lacks maturity. But it's obvious it's not just the op's wife. there are plenty of other women who live this lifestyle too.

For me, I hope I never reach the point where my spouse refers to me in derogatory terms, and can't wait to escape the hum drum, boring existence I provide her. If that ever were the case, I would be glad to encourage her to move on and find happiness. I guess it's more common than I like to think though- all those "twilight" and "Justin Bieber" matrons out there and all, trying to re capture their youth because they just drifted through life until they hit middle age, and suddenly, they want to re live it all again.


----------



## deejov

Lostwithouthope said:


> Ok update,
> 
> I had a quick txt with her about our chat, i basically said don't you think this something between couples, and this is something singles would wear to get attention.
> 
> Her response was, fine i'm not going as i dont want to feel like the odd one out as usual.
> 
> She has made her mind up, should of read this before sending my message.


The fallout is what you may need advice about.

I'm a woman, btw. 

I'm going to tweak on the respect aspect. 

No use in explaining why you feel it is wrong. That's giving your opinion. Which obviously differs from the girls who are choosing to go out like this. (taken as you are calling them (fill in blank)

"You are free to do whatever you want. I can't force you not to go. But out of respect for our marriage, I would expect that you would not put yourself in a situation that undermines your safety, our relationship, and mutual respect for each other".

No further discussion is required. If she goes out, she has chosen to disrespect you. Consequences should follow. Or your marriage will suffer and\or die.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

deejov said:


> The fallout is what you may need advice about.
> 
> I'm a woman, btw.
> 
> I'm going to tweak on the respect aspect.
> 
> No use in explaining why you feel it is wrong. That's giving your opinion. Which obviously differs from the girls who are choosing to go out like this. (taken as you are calling them (fill in blank)
> 
> "You are free to do whatever you want. I can't force you not to go. But out of respect for our marriage, I would expect that you would not put yourself in a situation that undermines your safety, our relationship, and mutual respect for each other".
> 
> No further discussion is required. If she goes out, she has chosen to disrespect you. Consequences should follow. Or your marriage will suffer and\or die.




That is spot on, btw this is normal food shop to the other poster not a sex shop. 

Her response was basically i dont want to argue about it and i have made my mind up, i'm going out for symons bday instead. 

To open another story a guy who is going to symons bday is gay, but in she originally had the hots for him, but now she doesn't like him at all. 

it will most probably end up her not going out at all, so i need to take her out and show her a good time.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Lostwithouthope said:


> That is spot on, btw this is normal food shop to the other poster not a sex shop.
> 
> Her response was basically i dont want to argue about it and i have made my mind up, i'm going out for symons bday instead.
> 
> To open another story a guy who is going to symons bday is gay, but in she originally had the hots for him, but now she doesn't like him at all.
> 
> it will most probably end up her not going out at all, so i need to take her out and show her a good time.


I realize when you said 'shopping' it was going to be mundane. My suggestion was to surprise her by driving to a sex shop. If she wonders why you turn left, wink and tell her it's a surprise. Then pull in, say you'll be right back, go pick up a couple things and let that fuel the sexual tension until the kids are in bed. After all, l she was looking forward to the toy party. Give her a private one instead.


----------



## Nsweet

Lostwithouthope said:


> She hasn't picked anything because she was going to look before she brought it, i regards to the second part i can do.
> 
> 2nd issue we have is my sister is having a baby anytime soon so there will be no babysitter and none of our friends can do it.
> 
> She wants to go shopping tonight how enjoyable


You can't find a sitter out of care.com or someplace like that? 

She doesn't shop too much does she, because that can be a problem. 

If nothing else you do the same things I told you, but you go with her when she's trying on clothes and you act like you you enjoy it. Because she's brought you into her world and if you don't make a fuss she'll probably tell you more about herself, her likes, her dislikes, her hopes, her dreams, everything you're going to need to connect with her and reconcile. I'm betting she's not very open with you right now. That could all change with a couple "just friends" outings. 

And who says it has to be dancing or clubbing? You could do just about anything together and have a lot of fun. Have you considered anything kid friendly where you and your wife would have fun..... Like an amusement park? Or if that's too expensive you could try a ton of different things...... There are places online with tons of listings including kid friendly places. Wait, I got it! Shopping together for a gift basket for her sister.... Anything goes, but she will appreciate having all the ingredients for meals put together so she doesn't have to do all the shopping. Just one idea.


----------



## Nsweet

humanbecoming said:


> As a married man, and someone who is actually out of my teens, I would much rather she move on then to have to spend the rest of my life gaming the person who supposedly committed themselves to me.


Who said it was a game? Who said it was going to be forever?


----------



## mablenc

I think the party is fine, but the fact that she wants to go clubbing wearing that shirt, and pouting about not wanting to be left out seems as a way manipulation to get her way. I agree if I saw a woman wearing a shirt like that I would think its trashy or that prostitution just became legal in my area and see it as clever marketing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

humanbecoming said:


> I guess it's more common than I like to think though- all those "twilight" and "Justin Bieber" matrons out there and all, trying to re capture their youth because they just drifted through life until they hit middle age, and suddenly, they want to re live it all again.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with reading Twilight or listening to Justin Bieber. It's catchy and campy and it's fine. 

This an entirely different issue. Wearing I SUCK GOOD shirts while going out clubbing when you are married is not at all in the same realm as listening to catchy pop tunes or reading silly young adult novels. They are completely incomparable. Apples and oranges.

I don't see anything wrong with the toy party. She may get some fun stuff for you guys to try out at home. It's the fact she'd even consider wearing such tripe out clubbing that is weird to me. Yuck. 

But I digress, she's already said she won't go clubbing and I don't think this should be discussed further unless she wants to do it in the future, wear that mess out in the public.


----------



## Jellybeans

Nsweet said:


> Who said it was going to be forever?


Ain't no such thing as forever.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shaggy said:


> Whichever woman in the group that came up with the idea of going out after the party to a club to act singer and attract guys, is either currently single or is going to be down the road. Her priority isn't to get home to show stuff off to her guy, it's to exclude him and to run out and show off to strangers,
> 
> You only run that kind of marketing campaign when you are trying to sell something.


I do not know what an Ann Summers is exactly. At a glance it looks like something my wife would go to early in our marriage. She bought some toys for us and so on. But after the party she came home and banged my brains out. It was women only. 

NFW way I am ok with my wife going clubbing without me, BUT, we are asked here that not only will they get their juices going and their fun bits engorged at the party but that they are going out clubbing. Not just clubbing but wearing naughty lingerie. As was asked is this sans underwear? 

This does not sound like a monogamous marriage to me. At all.

Back to the party. In the ealry 90s there was a coworker who held coed lingerie parties like these. The woman dressed in nighties and displayed for everyone. 

So the party may be jst some ladies indulging in nighties and sex toys. Wondermous. So much lingerie can end up in thenlingerie vault. So this is a good thing if it is ladies only.

Now if we add strippers and or other men. Even on guy then this is now a real sex party. Not saying actual sex, but strippers do what you pay them for and sometimes what you let them do. He did not mention strippers. Just trying not to assume that the party itself is marriage friendly of not. It could be very marriage friendly.


----------



## Entropy3000

Suspecting said:


> How would you know? You're a guy, right? The link SimplyAmorous provided says "Ann Summers 50 shades VIP parties". I kinda makes me wonder.


OH, just clicked that link. Idunno. Sounds like what my wife attended. Maybe I need to ask her about those. LOL.

Since they are held in a home. The ladies could modify the party any way they want. It should be just sexy fun, but I cannot tell from the link.

One would expect a BJ demonstration with one of the toys as an aid. 
Probably have all the ladies do this with instrution. 
Also discussion on types orgasms.
G spot vibrators ... so discussion about the G spot.
Probably some penis size banter.
Lubricants.
Using a vibrator or a dildo. 
What turns on men.
Dressing up and costumes.
Romantic weekends.
Roll play.

This and more. All good stuff. BUt I could see if this could get off to talking about lovers and cheating tips but I would thank that would depend on the crowd. 50 shades of gray. Hmmmm. I guess some handcuffs and silk scarves and so on for this type of play. Not so sure how far this would go.

BUT, this all would pretty much have the ladies in a sexuallized state. Then to go out to be around guys and alcohol. Wearing I like to suck. Hey one might as well be ok for the wife to be gang banged. That may not be garunteed but lets get real here. A woman who would push the boundaries here would also be the woman who makes a "mistake" has a bit too much to drink and end up at some guys apartmant.

Her attire basically says I dare you to seduce and bang me. Men do not need a lot of incentive. But those who might otherwsie respect she is married might figure she deserves what she gets. Oh, I made an assumption. Will she be wearing the ring? That say more about her intentions. A ring is a target. Not wearing one means she is looking to get laid.


----------



## Hicks

Why don't you go out to the bunny ranch with a T-Shirt that says "I"m carrying alot of money".


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostwithouthope said:


> Wow ton of responses, the idea came from a previous ann summers party. It was the idea of her single friend which she went along with.
> 
> We are currently going through a rocky patch atm, but the clothes they would wear would be with tights but i feel that this wouldn't make any difference. I have set my feeling and opinions across to her when she told me that they are all going in a group i.e. 5 women doing it then i can see a no big issue, however if it's only 2 then i am not particulary pleased about it and to think before doing it. I can't control what she wears out im her husband not her parent, however if she ever proceeds to dip the wick then her bags will be surely packed.
> 
> OK how would you guys approach in a manner avoiding arguements.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> David


Rocky patch makes this easy.

Ann Summer Party -- yes

Clubbing no.

Tell her this is unacceptable to your marriage.

Who cares about being called jealous, insecure or controlling. That would not bother me. I would be bothered by my wife going out afterwards to play with other men. I am funny that way. I would not stand for it. Why? I have value. I deserve a faithful wife. It is not about how many women or whatever.

Also you forget what you think they will be wearing. They will becoming from a party very aroused. These are not all married women so some will be hooking up if not all. You can assume all for your purposes. But they will be aroused and be very game for losing those tights one way or another. The idea was from a single woman.

Just say no. If she goes anyway you now know this was not the woman you were looking for.

It is not a win for your wife to be telling the guy she is riding that her husband is a great guy. "He is not jealous, insecure or controllling .... oooo .... ooooo. oooooooooooooo"


----------



## Entropy3000

thatbpguy said:


> Maybe tell her, "fine, I'm going to be at a local strip club looking for lap dances", and see what she says.


Not the same but I get your point. He will get horny at a strip club and maybe get off from a lap dance.

The wife is talking about engaging with men who want her for sex. She could end up passed out in a guys bed.

The clubbing is Wayyyyyyyyyy more risky than a strip club.


----------



## Suspecting

Entropy3000 said:


> Hmmmm. I guess some handcuffs and silk scarves and so on for this type of play. Not so sure how far this would go.


LOL! Time to call the wife! :rofl:


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

I had to look up what an Ann Summers party was as I had no idea. So basically a sex toy representative who comes to your house to sell you items and other women are there as well? Sounds fun. Going out afterwards sounds fine as well, dinner, dancing. What I simply cannot understand is the need for vulgar t-shirts. What is the point of that? It is in incredibly poor taste for a married person to this or anybody really. Perhaps I am missing a piece of this puzzle because it now sounds like if she can't wear this shirt it is a dealbreaker for her so she'll pout at home instead? Huh?


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Therealbrighteyes said:


> sounds like if she can't wear this shirt it is a dealbreaker for her so she'll pout at home instead? Huh?


she doesn't want to be the odd man out bc all her friends are wearing the clothes and she'd just be in regular clothing.


----------



## Entropy3000

Nsweet said:


> If you even hope to stand a chance Lostwithouthope, wow bad use of phrase there, you better listen up to what I'm about to tell you.
> 
> *You're going to let her go party and you're going to act like you act you're not jealous, even though you are. You're going to act happy she's leaving and tell her how you're glad to see her having fun.*
> 
> The reason why you're going to act happy and indifferent is because she's baiting you into being Mr. Possessive so she can claim you're keeping her from enjoying herself and then further blame shift everything she can imagine on you..... Which would give her mind the justification she needs to cheat on you. So you're going to let her do it this time with a smile on your face and a hug before she goes.
> 
> Then while she's gone you're going to do all the chores on your "Honey Do" list, making sure you clean the kitchen and the bathroom, and you're going to think up something romantic to surprise her with when she comes home.... Something little and inexpensive like something she might like for breakfast, maybe breakfast pastries or whatever, and you're going to stay out of her way when she comes home drunk and partied out.... Whatever you do don't sleep with her!
> 
> *And before any alpha idiot jerk comes in here telling me I'm wrong, just let me explain. *
> 
> The reason why you want to do all of this is because she's just been tested every which way by bad influences who make single life look good, and there's a very likely chance she's just been trash talking you the whole night to these women who are just picking apart your marriage and telling her what she wants to hear to make her feel good. So you want to make her feel really bad about anything she said you've done by showing her you're not that guy(not grilling her the second she enters the door), and you want to start melting her heart before she completely turns cold towards you.
> 
> Oh yeah, the sex thing. In the off chance she does cheat on you, which it's kind of too soon for that, but you never know. If she does cheat on you she's probably not going to use protection because that would involve planning and taking responsibility, she's biologically wired to seduce you and have two male's sperm compete. You don't want to take the risk of catching an STD off of some other guy and you really don't want to take custody for a kid that's not yours. So don't fall for that trick.... Hey, if she wouldn't let you use her for sex, you wouldn't let her use you for sex.
> 
> Another thing, you got to steal your wife away from these women by charming her back to marriage. These women are most likely going to convince her to divorce you so they can have another buddy in their sad party life, and they're going to treat you like crap and be constantly fishing for information by pretending to care about what you say. Rule of thumb here is if you get the hibie jibies and gut feeling that her friends don't have your best interest in mind, you just don't talk to them. You let your wife do the talking and you make sire you follow through with your own 180, which in this case involves agreeing with her, and getting away from her.... She's pulling away(if you can't tell) so you should be too.


I am not an Alpha jerk, but you are totally wrong with some of this. A man should never pretend he is not jealous if he is. He should play these games. He should never be ok with crossing boundaries. This is the worst thing he could do. This is NOT Alpha. But it does come from a guy who is happily married and loves his wife.

BUT moving forward. I do agree with much of this.

He needs to rock her world. The party is awesome. She does need to go. This helps rock her world.

But they need to be dating. If she wants a little walk on the wild side then go make love naked on the beach at night. Take her out clubbing with her in a nightie. A real nightie that is very daring. Then go take her to a hotel and have fun. Be her lover not her husband. Do crazy stuff together. Take her out sans any underwear. Take her to the beach with her wearing the tiniest bikini. The key is for you to be there. Be part of the fun. Be the reason she gets horny. Not the guy at home. Seduce your wife. Be her fun guy. 

I sent my wife an email earlier today, I told her I was going be her only lawn guy, her only pool boy and her only massage guy. That I would be the best of those she could ever have. So if my wife wants to be taken by the pool guy in our back yard I am going to be the pool guy. If she wants to be picked up at the club. Play that game. Spice it up.


----------



## Anon Pink

humanbecoming said:


> So basically, you have a typical TV sitcom marriage, where you are together out of inertia.
> 
> No thanks.
> 
> I think the problem here is the op's wife lacks maturity. But it's obvious it's not just the op's wife. there are plenty of other women who live this lifestyle too.
> 
> For me, I hope I never reach the point where my spouse refers to me in derogatory terms, and can't wait to escape the hum drum, boring existence I provide her. If that ever were the case, I would be glad to encourage her to move on and find happiness. I guess it's more common than I like to think though- all those "twilight" and "Justin Bieber" matrons out there and all, trying to re capture their youth because they just drifted through life until they hit middle age, and suddenly, they want to re live it all again.


Typical TV sitcom marriage? I don't watch much TV and HATE most sitcoms, so I don't get the reference. 

What lifestyle are you talking about?

I hope you didn't intend to come off insulting. Justin Bieber matrons? Drifted through life? I'm going to assume you are angry with someone else and posted or spewed here by mistake.


----------



## Entropy3000

Suspecting said:


> Wearing only Calvin Klein boxers and a tie, naturally.


Bravo!


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

ScarletBegonias said:


> she doesn't want to be the odd man out bc all her friends are wearing the clothes and she'd just be in regular clothing.


Yeah, I'd get new friends. I wouldn't want to be seen hanging around grown women with the maturity of an 18 year old frat pledge. Blech.


----------



## Entropy3000

humanbecoming said:


> OMG entropy, I just about laughed my breakfast out my nose at that last line!


LOL. I enjoyed it.


----------



## Nsweet

Entropy3000 said:


> I am not an Alpha jerk, but you are totally wrong. A man should never pretend he is not jealous if he is. He should play these games. he should never be ok with crossing boundaries. This is the worst thing he could do. This is NOT Alpha. But it does come from a guy who is happily married and loves his wife.


You're right, you're NOT alpha. And this advice is not coming straight from me, it's coming from "Stop Your Divorce", "Divorce Remedy", "Divorce Busters", "His Needs: Her Needs", and various reconciliation articles. If you've ever read any of these books you'd be familiar with the technique.


----------



## tulsy

Nsweet said:


> If you even hope to stand a chance Lostwithouthope, wow bad use of phrase there, you better listen up to what I'm about to tell you.
> 
> *You're going to let her go party and you're going to act like you act you're not jealous, even though you are. You're going to act happy she's leaving and tell her how you're glad to see her having fun.*
> 
> The reason why you're going to act happy and indifferent is because she's baiting you into being Mr. Possessive so she can claim you're keeping her from enjoying herself and then further blame shift everything she can imagine on you..... Which would give her mind the justification she needs to cheat on you. *So you're going to let her do it this time with a smile on your face and a hug before she goes*.
> 
> Then while she's gone you're going to do all the chores on your "Honey Do" list, making sure you clean the kitchen and the bathroom, and you're going to think up something romantic to surprise her with when she comes home.... Something little and inexpensive like something she might like for breakfast, maybe breakfast pastries or whatever, and you're going to stay out of her way when she comes home drunk and partied out.... Whatever you do don't sleep with her!
> 
> *And before any alpha idiot jerk comes in here telling me I'm wrong, just let me explain. *
> 
> The reason why you want to do all of this is because she's just been tested every which way by bad influences who make single life look good, and there's a very likely chance she's just been trash talking you the whole night to these women who are just picking apart your marriage and telling her what she wants to hear to make her feel good. So you want to make her feel really bad about anything she said you've done by showing her you're not that guy(not grilling her the second she enters the door), and you want to start melting her heart before she completely turns cold towards you.
> 
> Oh yeah, the sex thing. In the off chance she does cheat on you, which it's kind of too soon for that, but you never know. If she does cheat on you she's probably not going to use protection because that would involve planning and taking responsibility, she's biologically wired to seduce you and have two male's sperm compete. You don't want to take the risk of catching an STD off of some other guy and you really don't want to take custody for a kid that's not yours. So don't fall for that trick.... Hey, if she wouldn't let you use her for sex, you wouldn't let her use you for sex.
> 
> Another thing, you got to steal your wife away from these women by charming her back to marriage. These women are most likely going to convince her to divorce you so they can have another buddy in their sad party life, and they're going to treat you like crap and be constantly fishing for information by pretending to care about what you say. Rule of thumb here is if you get the hibie jibies and gut feeling that her friends don't have your best interest in mind, you just don't talk to them. You let your wife do the talking and you make sire you follow through with your own 180, which in this case involves agreeing with her, and getting away from her.... She's pulling away(if you can't tell) so you should be too.




So you ACT like everything's just fine and lie about it? But it's not fine...he's certainly not fine with the situation.

Then you clean the house and do all the "honey-do" list stuff? 

What kind of a marriage is this?

If THIS is what needs to be done to save the marriage, is it even worth it? I mean come on! 

You shouldn't have to bribe your wife into appreciating you or life with you, and she should respect your feelings on boundaries. You shouldn't have to kiss her azz.

If all it takes is a single girlfriend to convince her to go along with this stuff, what does that say about the person you married?

This stuff just seems like playing games.


----------



## Cosmos

My view is that:-


As a woman in a committed relationship I don't go clubbing.


At no time would I go out in public wearing an outfit emblazoned with the words "Im good a sucking," unless I wanted to attract the sort of attention that doing so would be likely to attract. In any event, IMO, that is simply tacky.

It isn't about being controlling. As a spouse you are _entitled_ to expect certain boundaries that protect your marriage.


----------



## Entropy3000

Nsweet said:


> You're right, you're NOT alpha. And this advice is not coming straight from me, it's coming from "Stop Your Divorce", "Divorce Remedy", "Divorce Busters", "His Needs: Her Needs", and various reconciliation articles. If you've ever read any of these books you'd be familiar with the technique.


I updated my post to be more clear where I am coming from. I do not think he should put up with his wife obviously looking for attention from other men. That will not make him attractive to her. Pretending he is ok with something he is not is a real game. 

BUT, he needs to swap that lifestyle for something better.


----------



## Aunt Ava

Cosmos said:


> My view is that:-
> 
> 
> As a woman in a committed relationship I don't go clubbing.
> 
> 
> At no time would I go out in public wearing an outfit emblazoned with the words "Im good a sucking," unless I wanted to attract the sort of attention that doing so would be likely to attract. In any event, IMO, that is simply tacky.
> 
> It isn't about being controlling. As a spouse you are _entitled_ to expect certain boundaries that protect your marriage.


:iagree: Very well said. :iagree:


----------



## Nsweet

tulsy said:


> So you ACT like everything's just fine and lie about it? But it's not fine...he's certainly not fine with the situation.
> *No you "Act happy and pull away" to keep from chasing and keep from giving the WS and excuse to hate you.*
> Then you clean the house and do all the "honey-do" list stuff?
> *If it's what you're supposed to be helping her with and aren't, then yeah. Chores also offer a great outlet for the roller coaster manic highs and depressing lows.*
> What kind of a marriage is this?
> *It's not your marriage so why bother asking.*
> If THIS is what needs to be done to save the marriage, is it even worth it? I mean come on!
> *If you've never had a marriage worth fighting for then you wouldn't understand.*
> You shouldn't have to bribe your wife into appreciating you or life with you, and she should respect your feelings on boundaries. You shouldn't have to kiss her azz.
> *You shouldn't have to, but it works when done right in the right situation.*
> *Respect your feelings? If they were respecting feelings to begin with they wouldn't be having problems. I never said anything about bowing down and kissing ass. In fact read my other posts, I'm against it.*
> If all it takes is a single girlfriend to convince her to go along with this stuff, what does that say about the person you married?
> *It's not the one girlfriend, boyfriend,OW, or OM it the means, motive, and opportunity and the risk assessment.*
> This stuff just seems like playing games.


I'm getting so tired of explaining this stuff that I'm just tossing out book references. Go read "Stop Your Divorce" and "Divorce remedy". NOTHING about divorce is a FREAKIN GAME! But there are rules and certain ways you have to deal with irate spouses so it can be considered similar to playing a "divorce game" if you think about it. And all of this hindsight bullsh!t in that "IF I WERE HIM I WOULD" well if you haven't been through this yourself, you just don't understand. It's one thing to sit at your desk and type a bunch of hypothetical stuff and it's another to actually live it. I lived it.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

typing every thing in bold letters isn't going to work in the whole "I'm right and you're wrong" quest.It's just making it harder to read without getting a headache.


----------



## Nsweet

Entropy3000 said:


> I updated my post to be more clear where I am coming from. I do not think he should put up with his wife obviously looking for attention from other men. That will not make him attractive to her. Pretending he is ok with something he is not is a real game.
> 
> BUT, he needs to swap that lifestyle for something better.


Well you see my advice has changed in three posts now, just going on what he told me and then how it changed from there. At first I thought he was coming from a place of powerlessness with a partying wife who's on the fence, and the option was to save his marriage was to soften her up and entice her back. That's the part everyone's getting upset about because they've got great big internet balls and would do something drastic in hindsight. No you guys wouldn't, not at first.

But then he said she was just bored and hasn't really gone out clubbing with her friends. So the advice changed from a passive 180 into a more active one where he does the friends route and drops the arguments in exchange for small talk and fun activities. It's the "have fun now, talk problems when you're happy" style that works all too well. 

I don't know what you guys have a problem with in "Acting happy" and "pulling away". Sure it doesn't feel like it the right thing to do, he could yell and scream bloody murder and sulk for days. Sure we could all agree with our feelings and throw temper tantrums and lose lovers to mindless jealousy, jealousy which tricks us into thinking we are right for getting upset. He could do that, or he could act like this doesn't bother him when he's *around her* and then vent somewhere else. Just like hundreds of others are doing all across this forum right now.

I was thinking about how a friend of the family who put it best after "just a friend" carried his passed out drunk wife home. He only said, "Sweetheart, married women don't date" and left it at that, and she got her sh!t together. There's a time for laying down the ultimatum and right now that seems like it should be after he's had a really good time with her and not some rant at 2:30 in the morning when she walks through the door carrying her heels.


----------



## Nsweet

ScarletBegonias said:


> typing every thing in bold letters isn't going to work in the whole "I'm right and you're wrong" quest.It's just making it harder to read without getting a headache.


Whoops. That was not my intention. I typed ctrl + b again instead of ctrl + v for paste.


----------



## Entropy3000

Temper tantrums are wrong.

Saying clearly and firmly and in a loving way that you feel disrespected by this and you do not find it acceptable and explaingin why is not throwing a tantrum. It is specifying a boundary for a marriage that he will stay in.

But for me as you can see I think he needs to address root cause. Or at least symptoms for now. If she is bored than try to be part of that solution. It may not work. But it might and quite frankly it could be great.


----------



## Cosmos

> Originally Posted by Entropy3000 View Post
> I updated my post to be more clear where I am coming from. I do not think he should put up with his wife obviously looking for attention from other men. That will not make him attractive to her. Pretending he is ok with something he is not is a real game.
> 
> BUT, he needs to swap that lifestyle for something better.


:iagree:

On the contrary. If I were into that sort of thing (which I'm not) and my SO was OK with me flaunting myself around a club, literally advertising my 'wares,' I'd feel that he didn't care what I did and I might be tempted to find someone who did... 

Personally, a little jealousy and possessiveness tells me how much my SO values me, and there's no way I want to lose that.


----------



## Hope1964

No freaking way would that fly in my marriage, OP.

My wedding shower consisted of a sex toy party then a trip to the bar. My MOH gave me a shirt with lifesavers sewn onto it and 'buck a suck' in marker on the front. I was so freaking mortified but I wore it anyway. Needless to say, if that happened today I'd be running the other way VERY fast. It was not a fun night at the bar.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Cosmos said:


> If I were into that sort of thing (which I'm not) and my SO was OK with me flaunting myself around a club, literally advertising my 'wares,' I'd feel that he didn't care what I did and I might be tempted to find someone who did...
> 
> Personally, a little jealousy and possessiveness tells me how much my SO values me, and there's no way I want to lose that.


Glad someone admitted this so I could jump on with agreement LOL


----------



## Nsweet

Key word: Little

If he kept you from talking to waiters and wouldn't let you stand near another man, that's not jealous that's possession.... That's scary!

But I agree, a little jealousy and making yourself a challenge is a good thing every now and then.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Nsweet said:


> making yourself a challenge is a good thing every now and then.


I have to disagree with this,at least for my own situation.I don't like playing that game with SO.He would get quickly discouraged and down on himself if I made myself a challenge.


----------



## Nsweet

ScarletBegonias said:


> I have to disagree with this,at least for my own situation.I don't like playing that game with SO.He would get quickly discouraged and down on himself if I made myself a challenge.


SB, I've known you on TAM for a while. You don't have to pretend you're challenging, it seems natural with you.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Nsweet said:


> SB, I've known you on TAM for a while. You don't have to pretend you're challenging, it seems natural with you.


Thankfully in SO's opinion,I'm not.

ETA,I'll take it as a compliment that men who aren't my SO find me challenging.It means I've got my boundaries firmly in place,am not taking bait and am doing great being a faithful partner. 

So,thanks for that!


----------



## Cosmos

Nsweet said:


> Key word: Little
> 
> If he kept you from talking to waiters and wouldn't let you stand near another man, that's not jealous that's possession.... That's scary!
> 
> But I agree, a little jealousy and making yourself a challenge is a good thing every now and then.


Absolutely. I was in a relationship with someone where even a friendly smile at a waiter (young enough to be my son) could result in the 'red mist' descending. Apparently I was having affairs with everyone from my employer to the grocery store manager...:scratchhead:


----------



## Nsweet

ScarletBegonias said:


> Thankfully in SO's opinion,I'm not.


I meant that in a good way. You're neither abrasive nor sickeningly sweet..... You're a fair mix of both with a good character.


----------



## Nsweet

Cosmos said:


> Absolutely. I was in a relationship with someone where even a friendly smile at a waiter (young enough to be my son) could result in the 'red mist' descending. Apparently I was having affairs with everyone from my employer to the grocery store manager...:scratchhead:


You think that's bad? I married a women who was like that on the second date.... I guess I just deluded myself into thinking she must have really liked me. Nope. She was like that with everyone including trying to psycho isolate me from my mom and get me to hate my cat she didn't like. And she was the one with poor boundaries who was cheating and jealous of me, around her extremely gay cousin too:scratchhead:

Extreme jealousy before any commitment = RED FLAG


----------



## Entropy3000

Cosmos said:


> Absolutely. I was in a relationship with someone where even a friendly smile at a waiter (young enough to be my son) could result in the 'red mist' descending. Apparently I was having affairs with everyone from my employer to the grocery store manager...:scratchhead:


I have had discussions with female friends and this seems way more common than I thought. 

This is very sad. So, I do think being jealous, insecure and controlling exists. Yes I said it. I just think it is used too often. But I think I should amend and say that is is often used when it is not true.

I think part of my rhetoric on this is that I just cannot fathom becoming these things without great reason. My wife just does not have to deal with a husband like that. If anything I am a real pushover and extremely trusting of my wife. I absolutely do not feel threatned by the type of things you mention. My wife being flirty does not bother me in the least. She is really just being friendly. But she has excellent boundaries so I am fine with it all.


----------



## Faithful Wife

If I'm literally flirty, it makes my husband very jealous. But to be totally honest...he knows I am a sex freak so he will not just think "innocent flirting" if it is me doing it...he will think "WTF is she doing talking to someone like that when she knows how sexual she really is?"

BUT....I don't flirt with others so this is not an issue.

If I were to flirt with others, it certainly wouldn't be innocent, and my H knows this. I'm no sweetheart angel with a halo. I'm also never going to betray him, but that's by my choice to be monogamous, not because I'm not capable of cheating. Same goes for him.


----------



## Nsweet

ScarletBegonias said:


> Thankfully in SO's opinion,I'm not.
> 
> ETA,I'll take it as a compliment that men who aren't my SO find me challenging.It means I've got my boundaries firmly in place,am not taking bait and am doing great being a faithful partner.
> 
> So,thanks for that!


YES, very well put. 

I know I wouldn't feel right talking to you, or anyone else, on these forums knowing you were in a relationship if you had poor boundaries and flirted a lot. You're doing a great job with your boundaries:smthumbup:

I may say something cheeky from time to time, which I know may seem off-putting, but I try to make it clear I'm not interested in flirting with anyone here or anything else. I would go to a dating site for that.

I do flirt, but it's more of a say one flirty thing and then stop.


----------



## Cora28

Lostwithouthope said:


> Hey Ladies
> 
> I need some advice hopefully the title would give you some insite into the situation in hand. Basically my wife is planning a Ann Summers party in june and they are planning to go out after, at this point i was cool with it no problem.
> 
> Then my wife tells me that he and her friend are going clubbing in some nightie's, ok curveball. I approached the situation lightly becuase i didn't want to approach it being overcontrolling on what she wears out.
> 
> Basically the nightly is more like a long sleeved shirt with some innappropriate/adultry writing on it i.e. "Im good a sucking", i am more concerned for the unwanted attention that she will get knowing that clubbing is more like a meat market and drunken men seeing this will be an opportunity to try it on or make some stupid comment.
> 
> So girls whats your view on this? i have put my concerns across that this will lead to unwanted attention and to seriously think about whether she would wear this?
> 
> Thanks


I apologise now because I havent read all the comments posted but she is going to get a LOT of attention with that shirt. I think you should sit her down and speak to her about how that makes you feel, i.e. give her the man´s point of view (and husband´s!!). What she can´t see is that the men in the club might not get that she has been to an Ann Summer´s party, they´ll probably assume she´s on a hen night and up for it. Heck, I´m a woman and I wouldn´t go out to a night club with that on a shirt!!! It is just tacky and asking for unwanted attention (unless that´s what she´s after).


----------



## Wiserforit

This wife needs to be spanked.


----------



## Cosmos

Wiserforit said:


> This wife needs to be spanked.


Why reward her for bad behaviour?


----------



## mablenc

How old is she by the way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tulsy

Nsweet said:


> No you "Act happy and pull away" to keep from chasing and keep from giving the WS and excuse to hate you.
> 
> _Then you clean the house and do all the "honey-do" list stuff? _
> If it's what you're supposed to be helping her with and aren't, then yeah. Chores also offer a great outlet for the roller coaster manic highs and depressing lows.
> 
> _What kind of a marriage is this?_
> It's not your marriage so why bother asking.
> 
> _If THIS is what needs to be done to save the marriage, is it even worth it? I mean come on! _
> If you've never had a marriage worth fighting for then you wouldn't understand.
> 
> _You shouldn't have to bribe your wife into appreciating you or life with you, and she should respect your feelings on boundaries. You shouldn't have to kiss her azz._
> You shouldn't have to, but it works when done right in the right situation.
> 
> Respect your feelings? If they were respecting feelings to begin with they wouldn't be having problems. I never said anything about bowing down and kissing ass. In fact read my other posts, I'm against it.
> 
> _If all it takes is a single girlfriend to convince her to go along with this stuff, what does that say about the person you married?_
> It's not the one girlfriend, boyfriend,OW, or OM it the means, motive, and opportunity and the risk assessment.
> 
> _This stuff just seems like playing games._
> 
> I'm getting so tired of explaining this stuff that I'm just tossing out book references. Go read "Stop Your Divorce" and "Divorce remedy". NOTHING about divorce is a FREAKIN GAME! But there are rules and certain ways you have to deal with irate spouses so it can be considered similar to playing a "divorce game" if you think about it. And all of this hindsight bullsh!t in that "IF I WERE HIM I WOULD" well if you haven't been through this yourself, you just don't understand. It's one thing to sit at your desk and type a bunch of hypothetical stuff and it's another to actually live it. I lived it.


Well, it's still acting, isn't it? Acting isn't real. What's the point of acting like you enjoy something that you don't? I don't agree with that chit, it's fake. If you can't be real with your spouse what's the fawkin point. Just my opinion.

If she's looking for an excuse to hate you, and this is the catalyst, I would be too consumed with being mad at her to worry about her being mad at me. Her anger is unmerited in this instance, his is not. He's not the one parading around nightclubs advertising sucking.

You projected that he's not doing things around the house that he should be. That may or may not be the case. Regardless, him suddenly doing all of the chores certainly doesn't make him more attractive to her. It DOES lets her know how to get all her chores done...just more bad behavior. It's a win-win for her and a loss-loss for him. Why feed her the cake?

It's not my marriage so why bother asking? 
I'm asking because this is not acceptable to me, and I don't agree with the approach. It's almost like rewarding her bad behavior.

I understand your frustration thinking people like me don't understand you, but I think it's more that they don't agree with you. Just a different opinion.

For the record, I have been divorced, and I tried very hard to save my marriage. I just wasn't willing to do what you describe for the rest of my life.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Lostwithouthope said:


> Hey Ladies
> 
> I need some advice hopefully the title would give you some insite into the situation in hand. Basically my wife is planning a Ann Summers party in june and they are planning to go out after, at this point i was cool with it no problem.
> 
> Then my wife tells me that he and her friend are going clubbing in some nightie's, ok curveball. I approached the situation lightly becuase i didn't want to approach it being overcontrolling on what she wears out.
> 
> Basically the nightly is more like a long sleeved shirt with some innappropriate/adultry writing on it i.e. "Im good a sucking", i am more concerned for the unwanted attention that she will get knowing that clubbing is more like a meat market and drunken men seeing this will be an opportunity to try it on or make some stupid comment.
> 
> So girls whats your view on this? i have put my concerns across that this will lead to unwanted attention and to seriously think about whether she would wear this?
> 
> Thanks


Oh HELLLSSS NOOO!!!

She could call me "controlling" "insecure" all she wants.

Insecure is the woman who wears that outfit out to a club LOOKING for the attention.

Sorry, no if ands or buts. If she goes, she doesn't bother coming home.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Hey guys 

Thanks for the replies, she 23 and im 30, she said that she would not go out to save arguments. I basically explained that i am doing this cause i care, however i can't stop you from doing it but wearing something like " i like to suck" is getting attention.

She basically said " so you don't trust me" as i always say if someone is going to cheat then they will do it whether i make a big deal or not, however i don't take that [email protected], for most of the time we were food shopping she was trying to cause an arguement but i let it slide by saying "if your trying to cause an arguement good luck" trying all the old tricks in the book.

She's currently going to the gym at the moment, and her latest reply was "i need to make gym a priority" so i said how are you going to balance that with family/friend life?? she has to do 3 gym visits before a week, to throw another spanner in the works then mentions that my weed mate from work "ben" is supposed to join me.

Is she baiting for me to react. i just dont get her at the moment???
is this a midlife crisis.


----------



## Faithful Wife

"to throw another spanner in the works then mentions that my weed mate from work "ben" is supposed to join me."


Uh oh.


----------



## mablenc

" No, I don't trust you. Any descent married woman would rather be caught dead than to go out wearing a shirt like that." Would be my response.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Suspecting

What is a weed mate from work?


----------



## mablenc

It's not a mid life crisis, is my friends are young single and partying and I'm stucked being married crisis. How long have you been married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lostwithouthope

We were just chatting in general about her gym, she still has abit of her baby weight and wants to drop waist size, we have been married for about 2 years, her dream is to move to America at some point but also wants another child next year.

1 of her friends is single the others have Bf, this guy Ben is abit of a weed smoker, but apparently was going to join the gym and she used text him calling him sweetie?!? which i didn't appreciate.


----------



## mablenc

Lostwithouthope said:


> We were just chatting in general about her gym, she still has abit of her baby weight and wants to drop waist size, we have been married for about 2 years, her dream is to move to America at some point but also wants another child next year.
> 
> 1 of her friends is single the others have Bf, this guy Ben is abit of a weed smoker, but apparently was going to join the gym and she used text him calling him sweetie?!? which i didn't appreciate.


Hmm, I would look deeper into her texts.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

mablenc said:


> Hmm, I would look deeper into her texts.


Maybe it's me, am i meeting her emotional needs?

I am trying to learn about how to approach things, normally i would go off the handle about everything. for example on Tuesday i was at work and our daughter didn't go to the childminder cause they were on holiday, the monday night my wife worked so she was nakered, all morning i tried to ring her it wasn't only till my mum went round to check and she was asleep for an hour with the 2 year old still awake, i flew off the handle in rage i was worried that my daughter might get hurt, it ended nearly in divorce. 

She said's i always take things to seriously and to heart, i am just trying to be the person she met.


----------



## mablenc

First of all I just realized you have a daughter, once you have children you should always try to be a good example to them, the shirt thing is even more messed up.
My H and I got married when I was 23 he was 30, this was never a problem for us but, she sounds very immature.

Look up no more mr nice guy on this site,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cosmos

Lostwithouthope said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Thanks for the replies, she 23 and im 30, she said that she would not go out to save arguments. I basically explained that i am doing this cause i care, however i can't stop you from doing it but wearing something like " i like to suck" is getting attention.
> 
> She basically said " so you don't trust me" as i always say if someone is going to cheat then they will do it whether i make a big deal or not, however i don't take that [email protected], for most of the time we were food shopping she was trying to cause an arguement but i let it slide by saying "if your trying to cause an arguement good luck" trying all the old tricks in the book.
> 
> She's currently going to the gym at the moment, and her latest reply was "i need to make gym a priority" so i said how are you going to balance that with family/friend life?? she has to do 3 gym visits before a week, to throw another spanner in the works then mentions that my weed mate from work "ben" is supposed to join me.
> 
> Is she baiting for me to react. i just dont get her at the moment???
> is this a midlife crisis.


Hardly a midlife crisis at 23 years of age. By the sounds of things, your W is wanting to behave like a single young woman. Married women don't go clubbing it wearing garments saying: " i like to suck." As for trust? How are you supposed to trust her when she talks about doing things like that?:scratchhead:

OP, your W needs to grow up. She's a married woman now, and if she wants to stay that way she needs to stop acting single.


----------



## Nsweet

Lostwithouthope said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Thanks for the replies, she 23 and im 30, she said that she would not go out to save arguments. I basically explained that i am doing this cause i care, however i can't stop you from doing it but wearing something like " i like to suck" is getting attention.
> 
> She basically said " so you don't trust me" as i always say if someone is going to cheat then they will do it whether i make a big deal or not, however i don't take that [email protected], for most of the time we were food shopping she was trying to cause an arguement but i let it slide by saying "if your trying to cause an arguement good luck" trying all the old tricks in the book.
> 
> She's currently going to the gym at the moment, and her latest reply was "i need to make gym a priority" so i said how are you going to balance that with family/friend life?? she has to do 3 gym visits before a week, to throw another spanner in the works then mentions that my weed mate from work "ben" is supposed to join me.
> 
> Is she baiting for me to react. i just dont get her at the moment???
> is this a midlife crisis.





Lostwithouthope said:


> We were just chatting in general about her gym, she still has abit of her baby weight and wants to drop waist size, we have been married for about 2 years, her dream is to move to America at some point but also wants another child next year.
> 
> 1 of her friends is single the others have Bf, this guy Ben is abit of a weed smoker, but apparently was going to join the gym and she used text him calling him sweetie?!? which i didn't appreciate.





Lostwithouthope said:


> Maybe it's me, am i meeting her emotional needs?
> 
> I am trying to learn about how to approach things, normally i would go off the handle about everything. for example on Tuesday i was at work and our daughter didn't go to the childminder cause they were on holiday, the monday night my wife worked so she was nakered, all morning i tried to ring her it wasn't only till my mum went round to check and she was asleep for an hour with the 2 year old still awake, i flew off the handle in rage i was worried that my daughter might get hurt, it ended nearly in divorce.
> 
> She said's i always take things to seriously and to heart, i am just trying to be the person she met.


Oh come on Dude, you really got to stop with the trickle truth here with us and just write everything in your original post. I keep tailoring my advice to you based on the severity of the situation, catching a lot of heat from others to try to repair your relationship instead of immediately telling her off, and you keep including some new horrible detail in every post. 

Just, Ughhh!
*
•She is cheating on with "sweetie".

•She is working out for him.

•She is starting fights with you on purpose. 

•She is getting ready to leave you and file for divorce.

•She is emotionally immature, as bad as her friends, and as bad as the OM.

•She is NOT good enough for you!* 

I can't do this anymore. I can't help you if you won't tell me everything, and from the looks of it you're better off divorcing her........ Here, read this: The Next Guy: Did your Ex-Girlfriend or Ex-Wife Downgrade? | Shrink4Men

And for your information, I've taken a shine to your situation because everything your wife is doing is what my ex wife did with me and I thought I could help you out a little....... Unfortunately, I think your wise is as damaged as mine was, and at 23 she's pulling the same crap at the same age. Mine left me a couple weeks after I left the Navy for her, for some pothead would allow her to get all the tattoos she wanted and drink and smoke and party without ever being told it's immature. You my friend are much better off divorcing her NOW instead of selling your integrity drying to sink down to her level and appeal to a child in a grown up body. She's not worth losing your head over.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cosmos said:


> Why reward her for bad behaviour?


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostwithouthope said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Thanks for the replies, she 23 and im 30, she said that she would not go out to save arguments. I basically explained that i am doing this cause i care, however i can't stop you from doing it but wearing something like " i like to suck" is getting attention.
> 
> She basically said " so you don't trust me" as i always say if someone is going to cheat then they will do it whether i make a big deal or not, however i don't take that [email protected], for most of the time we were food shopping she was trying to cause an arguement but i let it slide by saying "if your trying to cause an arguement good luck" trying all the old tricks in the book.
> 
> She's currently going to the gym at the moment, and her latest reply was "i need to make gym a priority" so i said how are you going to balance that with family/friend life?? she has to do 3 gym visits before a week, to throw another spanner in the works then mentions that my weed mate from work "ben" is supposed to join me.
> 
> Is she baiting for me to react. i just dont get her at the moment???
> is this a midlife crisis.


Does she have a male PT? Oh, wait. her situation is way beyond this, but the question stands.

Anyway, you should not be ok with her meeting a guy at the gym. A woman with a male weed mate. NFW. 

Are you saying that she meets up with other men without you and smokes weed? She has already cheated woth this guy. You are way way late on all of this. But heres the deal. If you want to save your marriage. Sje does not meet this guy at the GYM.

Morever, she now must go NC with this guy. Which means she quits this job now. I mean right f'ing now. No fond farewells.


----------



## Entropy3000

Suspecting said:


> What is a weed mate from work?


It is a guy she smokes pot with. She knows him from work but obvioulsy she has alone time with guy and smokes pot. NFW they have not had sex.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostwithouthope said:


> We were just chatting in general about her gym, she still has abit of her baby weight and wants to drop waist size, we have been married for about 2 years, her dream is to move to America at some point but also wants another child next year.
> 
> 1 of her friends is single the others have Bf, this guy Ben is abit of a weed smoker, but apparently was going to join the gym and she used text him calling him sweetie?!? which i didn't appreciate.


If she has not been banging this guy already she will very soon. She needs to NC with him. However you feel about smking weed, she cannot be alone doing this with other men. She obviously has. Your little lady has already been unfaithful to you. Big time.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostwithouthope said:


> Maybe it's me, am i meeting her emotional needs?
> 
> I am trying to learn about how to approach things, normally i would go off the handle about everything. for example on Tuesday i was at work and our daughter didn't go to the childminder cause they were on holiday, the monday night my wife worked so she was nakered, all morning i tried to ring her it wasn't only till my mum went round to check and she was asleep for an hour with the 2 year old still awake, i flew off the handle in rage i was worried that my daughter might get hurt, it ended nearly in divorce.
> 
> She said's i always take things to seriously and to heart, i am just trying to be the person she met.


No you are not meeting her needs. She needed you to be her hsuband. Her partner. Not her dad or FWB. You are MIA in the marriage. 

You are not going to nice her out of this. She is off the reservation dude. AWOL. And you are wondering whether you are meeting her needs. Right now she needs you to take charge. Start with c0ckblocking.


----------



## Dollystanford

She wants to go to a club dressed in her nightie and you're worried about meeting her emotional needs? Dude she's a wife with small children, nip this sh*t in the bud like yesterday


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Nsweet said:


> Oh come on Dude, you really got to stop with the trickle truth here with us and just write everything in your original post. I keep tailoring my advice to you based on the severity of the situation, catching a lot of heat from others to try to repair your relationship instead of immediately telling her off, and you keep including some new horrible detail in every post.
> 
> Just, Ughhh!
> *
> •She is cheating on with "sweetie".
> 
> •She is working out for him.
> 
> •She is starting fights with you on purpose.
> 
> •She is getting ready to leave you and file for divorce.
> 
> •She is emotionally immature, as bad as her friends, and as bad as the OM.
> 
> •She is NOT good enough for you!*
> 
> I can't do this anymore. I can't help you if you won't tell me everything, and from the looks of it you're better off divorcing her........ Here, read this: The Next Guy: Did your Ex-Girlfriend or Ex-Wife Downgrade? | Shrink4Men
> 
> And for your information, I've taken a shine to your situation because everything your wife is doing is what my ex wife did with me and I thought I could help you out a little....... Unfortunately, I think your wise is as damaged as mine was, and at 23 she's pulling the same crap at the same age. Mine left me a couple weeks after I left the Navy for her, for some pothead would allow her to get all the tattoos she wanted and drink and smoke and party without ever being told it's immature. You my friend are much better off divorcing her NOW instead of selling your integrity drying to sink down to her level and appeal to a child in a grown up body. She's not worth losing your head over.


Seriously i think that's abit OTT. 

1. She's not working out for him, she said he as supposed to join, that is a rookie error to assume she's cheating without having evidence and making a big assumption will not help the situation. 
2. We have a child you don't just divorce cause you assume she is cheating again point 1 need evidence.
3. We need to deal with problem at a time. One of women/men gripes is how much they nag.

I already had a chat with her about the nightie she's not going, to then moan about her going to gym and saying "i dont trust you with ben when he's not even going" how needy and insecure do you want me to look???

It was a test, she was baiting me for a reaction think about it i just made a big issue about her going out in a nightie and coincedently she mentions a bloke, what's a insecure mans normal reaction is to get on his high horse that will definately push her away not cool!..


Yes she's immature but acting like an insecure bloke is not going to win brownie points, now if she said im going to the gym with ben then yes i can deal with the situation and say it's unacceptable, but plain out divorcing her for it is just stupid.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Lostwithouthope said:


> Seriously i think that's abit OTT.
> 
> 1. She's not working out for him, she said he as supposed to join, that is a rookie error to assume she's cheating without having evidence and making a big assumption will not help the situation.
> 2. We have a child you don't just divorce cause you assume she is cheating again point 1 need evidence.
> 3. We need to deal with problem at a time. One of women/men gripes is how much they nag.
> 
> I already had a chat with her about the nightie she's not going, to then moan about her going to gym and saying "i dont trust you with ben when he's not even going" how needy and insecure do you want me to look???
> 
> It was a test, she was baiting me for a reaction think about it i just made a big issue about her going out in a nightie and coincedently she mentions a bloke, what's a insecure mans normal reaction is to get on his high horse that will definately push her away not cool!..
> 
> 
> Yes she's immature but acting like an insecure bloke is not going to win brownie points, now if she said im going to the gym with ben then yes i can deal with the situation and say it's unacceptable, but plain out divorcing her for it is just stupid.


Jumping to the conclusion that she's cheating is probably jumping to conclusions...but here's what you DO know.

*She's ONLY 23. * I know that sounds like it's no big deal but she didn't get the chance to have her wild youth and she regrets that and wants it. Hence why the clubbing and weed etc. etc. She wants to, at the minimum, feel wild and single and free. She's not doing it as an insult to you, but she's not thinking about the ramifications of her actions and how they affect you (as demonstrated by the nightie club hopping desire). Why this is important is because it demonstrates an ability to be selfish while also not thinking of her actions affecting you...this is a KEY INGREDIENT to the cheater psychosis. So is she cheating....probably not...does she have a disposition to cheat. (the young wild times seeking and the selfish thought process)....HECK YEAH!

She also doesn't understand boundaries. Again demonstrated by her actions. A young wife with no boundaries is a recipe for disaster.

She also shows she likes to push your buttons which demonstrates a disrespect for your feelings and opinions. She gets a thrill out of riling you up.....Again not good.

Good luck man.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

^^^^^^^^^^^ x 1000.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Dad&Hubby said:


> Jumping to the conclusion that she's cheating is probably jumping to conclusions...but here's what you DO know.
> 
> *She's ONLY 23. * I know that sounds like it's no big deal but she didn't get the chance to have her wild youth and she regrets that and wants it. Hence why the clubbing and weed etc. etc. She wants to, at the minimum, feel wild and single and free. She's not doing it as an insult to you, but she's not thinking about the ramifications of her actions and how they affect you (as demonstrated by the nightie club hopping desire). Why this is important is because it demonstrates an ability to be selfish while also not thinking of her actions affecting you...this is a KEY INGREDIENT to the cheater psychosis. So is she cheating....probably not...does she have a disposition to cheat. (the young wild times seeking and the selfish thought process)....HECK YEAH!
> 
> She also doesn't understand boundaries. Again demonstrated by her actions. A young wife with no boundaries is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> She also shows she likes to push your buttons which demonstrates a disrespect for your feelings and opinions. She gets a thrill out of riling you up.....Again not good.
> 
> Good luck man.



Not sure where you got the weed bit from, her co-worker smokes weed and she hates the stuff so theres not connection with that. 

What we must understand is that it could be all innocent and not really thinking about the reality of the situation, what women think differently to men visa versa. She thinks it's a good laugh but to us men it's not the best manner. It takes 2 to tango in any marriage or relationship and some of it falls onto me because i shouldn't let her push my buttons, it is all baiting and that is all it is because 9/10 i rage and get all angry about it. I need to approach the situation in an adult non argumentive manner i.e. i feel it's unacceptable to do x y z and this will not fly with me. She has been cheated in every relationship do you really think she would do the same??? her confidence and self-asteem is low, hence the gym. She is a very immature girl but you have to approach in an counter-intuative way than how you normally act. 

In a nutshell i need to man up, set boundaries and also romance her. Today i brought her flowers out of the blue because that's what i used to do when we first met. In this week we had sex 3 times than our normal once a week, i need to stop being so uptight but be a confident mature man than she can communicate with. i have been abit of a loof letting things slide which happens in marriages, she wants someone to make decisions and be her rock. 

I am slowly winning her back, but it's going to take some time for her to open up.


----------



## Dollystanford

Good luck with that

Perhaps you shouldn't let her push your buttons. But why is she?
And people who've been cheated on don't become cheaters? Oh myyyyyy


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Dollystanford said:


> Good luck with that
> 
> Perhaps you shouldn't let her push your buttons. But why is she?
> And people who've been cheated on don't become cheaters? Oh myyyyyy


Because i have let it, lets not jump to conclusions and suspect she has cheated when she hasn't not only will it not look good on me accusing her it can distroy a marriage. 

9/10 people who have been cheated on don't because they know how it feels like, their self asteem and confidence get knocked, and trust me if some lady friend txt's me she get's very insecure. 

We have to look outside the box, it's all test's and women do it. 

Since i have told her how i feel about the nightie 1. She's not going out 2. She's been more loving. Passed the first test.

Second test was this ben co-worker going to gym, how many blokes do you know who smoke weed want to go to the gym??? the only excercise they do is smoking a pipe or a bong. The whole point is to not react to it. if she said "do you mind me going to the gym with ben " then respond with "do you mind me going for a date with xyz" it's all tests that is it.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Lostwithouthope said:


> 9/10 people who have been cheated on don't because they know how it feels like, their self asteem and confidence get knocked, and trust me if some lady friend txt's me she get's very insecure.


:rofl:


----------



## Suspecting

Then when you catch her cheating with Ben she can say that "you did not mind, don't you remember I even asked."


----------



## mablenc

I would see the flowers as a "I'm sorry you are hurt about the shirt situation"

I don't think you are handling the situation well, the situations you have posted do raise some red flags. I think you need to look at the bigger picture as you said by looking at her behavior. I'm not saying she is cheating but, some of her behavior is classic cheating signs. Don't go acusing her of cheating but start digging further.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

ScarletBegonias said:


> :rofl:


whats funny about it??


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Lostwithouthope said:


> whats funny about it??


The fact that you HAD to have just pulled that out of the clear blue sky. 9/10? I want to see the research on that.Plenty of people who have been betrayed turn around and betray someone else.Many do it for revenge.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

mablenc said:


> I would see the flowers as a "I'm sorry you are hurt about the shirt situation"
> 
> I don't think you are handling the situation well, the situations you have posted do raise some red flags. I think you need to look at the bigger picture as you said by looking at her behavior. I'm not saying she is cheating but, some of her behavior is classic cheating signs. Don't go acusing her of cheating but start digging further.


No i was just buying her flowers, how many women complain about their men don't do the things they used to? it was out of love nothing to do with the nightie and she knows that.

In regards to other poster no i don't have no research, however i am going on the assumption that most people would know the hurt of being cheated so they wouldn't do it themselves. 

Some really mature comments about her cheating with ben, Really if she wants to loose everything house, family, being out on the streets with meeting arrangements with our daughter don't think she would sacrifice that for a fling with a weed smoker.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Lostwithouthope said:


> Some really mature comments about her cheating with ben, Really if she wants to loose everything house, family, being out on the streets with meeting arrangements with our daughter don't think she would sacrifice that for a fling with a weed smoker.


First of all,you can't do any of those things since you're married to her if you live in a no fault state.Second,unless she's unfit,good luck getting full custody of your daughter regardless of whether or not mommy is a cheater.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

OP, what are you looking for here now? I get that you are defensive about your wife, that's normal but to me it seems that you aren't listening to what us more "seasoned" marrieds are telling you. There are many things that you mentioned that are red flags to many of us.


----------



## Entropy3000

Dollystanford said:


> She wants to go to a club dressed in her nightie and you're worried about meeting her emotional needs? Dude she's a wife with small children, nip this sh*t in the bud like yesterday


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

So you think that a wife going clubbing in her nightie crosses some boundaries? 

I am so glad we do not have a number of ladies saying this is perfectly ok and controlling husbands need to be ok with this.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostwithouthope said:


> Seriously i think that's abit OTT.
> 
> *What you describe her doing is way OTT*
> 
> 1. She's not working out for him, she said he as supposed to join, that is a rookie error to assume she's cheating without having evidence and making a big assumption will not help the situation.
> 
> *The rookie mistake is not c0ckblocking. She does not need a male gym mate. He is from her work and she is her weed buddy? Right. Nothing to see here. You do not wait until you walk into a room and see your wife riding another guy to assert boundaries.
> *
> 2. We have a child you don't just divorce cause you assume she is cheating again point 1 need evidence.
> 
> *Indeed you need to sart thinking about your child. You should have asserted yourself sooner. The thing is you have to be willing to steate the dealbreakers to save your marriage. What you are doing sharing your wife with other men. Stop that. Save your marriage.*
> 
> 3. We need to deal with problem at a time. One of women/men gripes is how much they nag.
> 
> I already had a chat with her about the nightie she's not going, to then moan about her going to gym and saying "i dont trust you with ben when he's not even going" how needy and insecure do you want me to look???
> 
> *This is absurd. Ste some boundaries. She has none. The fact she wanted to go clubbing in her nightie is a symptom. Thsi male friend must be history. In fact these toxic friends must all go. She needs to quit this job now.*
> 
> It was a test, she was baiting me for a reaction think about it i just made a big issue about her going out in a nightie and coincedently she mentions a bloke, what's a insecure mans normal reaction is to get on his high horse that will definately push her away not cool!..
> 
> *You are insecure. You have failed the test. You are so insecure you are afriad to assert boundaries. A secure man would not think twice about being the man and not accepting this. You wife is not being faithful to you. And you are enabling.
> *
> 
> Yes she's immature but acting like an insecure bloke is not going to win brownie points, now if she said im going to the gym with ben then yes i can deal with the situation and say it's unacceptable, but plain out divorcing her for it is just stupid.
> 
> *I think you are having us on. What is insecure is you not acting.*


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Lostwithouthope said:


> Not sure where you got the weed bit from, her co-worker smokes weed and she hates the stuff so theres not connection with that.


Sorry my mistake.


> What we must understand is that it could be all innocent and not really thinking about the reality of the situation, what women think differently to men visa versa. She thinks it's a good laugh but to us men it's not the best manner.


My wife, and every GROWN woman I know (who isn't just divorced and in turn ACTING like a 21 year old) wouldn't DREAM of wearing a shirt that says "I love to suck" except maybe as a night shirt to be playful with her husband. Sorry, it's immature based upon attention seeking to combat EXTREME insecurity.


> It takes 2 to tango in any marriage or relationship and some of it falls onto me because i shouldn't let her push my buttons, it is all baiting and that is all it is because 9/10 i rage and get all angry about it. I need to approach the situation in an adult non argumentive manner i.e. i feel it's unacceptable to do x y z and this will not fly with me.


It's great to look at your component BUT the biggest issue here isn't you flying off the handle, it's her INTENTIONALLY making you fly off the handle. Do a search about sh!t tests. She's doing it to you constantly. Again, it's immature and disrespectful. If I were in your shoes, I'd fly off the handle too EXCEPT I'd fly off the handle about her pushing my buttons and make her go to counseling because someone doing that isn't a small issue. 


> She has been cheated in every relationship do you really think she would do the same??? her confidence and self-asteem is low, hence the gym. She is a very immature girl but you have to approach in an counter-intuative way than how you normally act.


Okay this has a few things. 1. YES people who have been cheated on COMMONLY cheat because 2. She has very low self esteem. You know what feeds self esteem, having multiple people after you and getting sexed up by multiple people. Low self-esteem ALSO contributes to cheating. 3. Immaturity doesn't bode well for having good boundaries and avoiding cheating.



> In a nutshell i need to man up, set boundaries and also romance her. Today i brought her flowers out of the blue because that's what i used to do when we first met. In this week we had sex 3 times than our normal once a week, i need to stop being so uptight but be a confident mature man than she can communicate with. i have been abit of a loof letting things slide which happens in marriages, she wants someone to make decisions and be her rock.


 All of this is a GREAT paragraph. Keep doing it and keep manning up. I'm not a huge advocate of the Married Man Sex Life Primer (I might have the name wrong) but for your wife...DEFINITELY. You should read it and use it.



> I am slowly winning her back, but it's going to take some time for her to open up.


What do you have to win her back for? Did I miss this? What about her to you?



Lostwithouthope said:


> Because i have let it, lets not jump to conclusions and suspect she has cheated when she hasn't not only will it not look good on me accusing her it can distroy a marriage.


Don't accuse her, but look at all of the red flags and behavioral aptitude. Keep your eyes open and don't be as trusting. Your wife may not have and may never cheat. But unfortunately her behavior and thought processes show someone predisposed to it.

[/QUOTE]9/10 people who have been cheated on don't because they know how it feels like, their self asteem and confidence get knocked, and trust me if some lady friend txt's me she get's very insecure. [/QUOTE]

You need to check your statistics...This is COMPLETELY false. The self esteem issue leads more people to cheat than not actually.



> We have to look outside the box, it's all test's and women do it.
> 
> Since i have told her how i feel about the nightie 1. She's not going out 2. She's been more loving. Passed the first test.


 Don't pass them. Stop them. But good for setting a boundary and look what happened. Great job man!



> Second test was this ben co-worker going to gym, how many blokes do you know who smoke weed want to go to the gym??? *LOTS* the only excercise they do is smoking a pipe or a bong *and banging*. The whole point is to not react to it. if she said "do you mind me going to the gym with ben " then respond with "do you mind me going for a date with xyz" it's all tests that is it.


 You're dead on about the tests. So again, is she going to the gym with Ben? I didn't catch the result.


----------



## Wiserforit

Lostwithouthope said:


> Second test was this ben co-worker going to gym, how many blokes do you know who smoke weed want to go to the gym???


I knew plenty. Including myself. Same with booze. People can be casual drinkers or do the occasional bong hit and still be athletes. I don't smoke now because my work is just too technical 

I don't know this Ben personally but you throw out a lot of specious stuff here with 9/10ths of people who have been cheated on not ever cheating themselves and etc.

Same with the claim that standing up for yourself is "immature". Midlife crisis at 23? Need to look outside the box? 

You aren't thinking clearly and are dismissing a lot of experience on this forum with pretty flimsy arguments of convenience.


----------



## tulsy

Entropy3000 said:


> You are insecure. You have failed the test. You are so insecure you are afraid to assert boundaries. A secure man would not think twice about being the man and not accepting this. You wife is not being faithful to you. And you are enabling.


Well said.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

so you want my want my wife to quit her job loose her friendship with girlmates over somebloke that i mentioned?? so you are asking me to risk my marriage over a job because if i told her to change job i will look a complete noob and yes she would divorce me over it.

how have i failed the test?? i have already told her no to the nightie which she isn't wearing but she still is going out. i can't stop her from going out, seems there people on here that are waay over controlling the whole point is to let her go out have a good time but no pesture her, some people will say go out with her again looking needy and controlling, shes a wife and a mum she needs to let off steam, not letting her go out will eventually lead her to cheating i have to trust her. I agree there are red flags i need to up my game abit but asking stupid things like loosing a job when we have a child is just insane and not using your common savvy. 

i am asking for practical advice to deal with the situation in hand and how to deal with future ones so i know how to approach it. sometimes we blokes can be idiots so i am no perfect angel


----------



## Nsweet

Here's the thing.....

You keep telling us how you have to trust her and how this is her way of dealing with stress and her friend is just a friend, you've made that perfectly clear. But you don't even believe this yourself! And you keep telling us how you're getting her to behave and not go out when she has responsibilities at home, but all she's doing is driving her *emotional affair* (at the very least) underground. 

You act like you know what you're doing, but guess what. *YOU DO NOT!* You didn't join TAM to tell us how you've got it all figured out and your marriage is perfect. Your first post wasn't anything about how happy you are in your marriage. You joined TAM to get help for a very peculiar situation with your wife that looks like cheating, and hear from these people with experience who can advise you. 

For God sakes, *SHE'S 23!* Do you honestly think you can control her? She's doing all of these unacceptable things because she wants to. If she wanted a healthy relationship with good man she wouldn't be trying to fight with you for being the only adult in your marriage or try to escape her responsibilities and pretend she's single again. 

Ok, you came to us for help. I don't know if you actually want to be helped based on your reactions. Dude, you can't be this dense to not see how you're the one doing all of the work in this relationship and how she's planning her escape. You have to get you sh!t together and prepare yourself for divorce, because you're not dealing with average problems with her.... You're dealing with sh!t that shouldn't even be happening this soon in your marriage.

You married way too young, started a family too soon, and married the wrong damn person who can't act like an adult. Ok, adults do not have close opposite sex "special friends" they call sweeite AND spouses... It's either or, they don't wear trashy clothes that invite others to hit on them, they don't leave their kids while they go out partying with friends... Unless this is something they've discussed with their spouses in which case they discuss their plan with you, and they certainly don't make all of these excuses to overstep your boundaries because someone who wants to act like an adult and wants to stay married will make their marriage and family life a priority. 

*When was the last time she did any real work in this marriage instead blame shifting on you making you feel like crap for telling her "this is unacceptable" and suggesting ways you can have fun together?*

You keep beating yourself up for not meeting her emotional needs, while she's not doing the same for you. Trust is an emotional need too! You need to put your foot down *NOW* and tell her you're going to leave her if she keeps this up, because she's getting ready to leave you for "greener pastures" and you do not want to be the one fighting for your marriage when she's f*cking some pothead, setting up shop with him while she's toying with you and giving you some bullsh!t list of demands to meet that will never make her happy. 

*Remember you came here for advice, and you're not listening to what people with experience in the exact same things have to say.*


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Nsweet said:


> Here's the thing.....
> 
> You keep telling us how you have to trust her and how this is her way of dealing with stress and her friend is just a friend, you've made that perfectly clear. But you don't even believe this yourself! And you keep telling us how you're getting her to behave and not go out when she has responsibilities at home, but all she's doing is driving her *emotional affair* (at the very least) underground.
> 
> You act like you know what you're doing, but guess what. *YOU DO NOT!* You didn't join TAM to tell us how you've got it all figured out and your marriage is perfect. Your first post wasn't anything about how happy you are in your marriage. You joined TAM to get help for a very peculiar situation with your wife that looks like cheating, and hear from these people with experience who can advise you.
> 
> For God sakes, *SHE'S 23!* Do you honestly think you can control her? She's doing all of these unacceptable things because she wants to. If she wanted a healthy relationship with good man she wouldn't be trying to fight with you for being the only adult in your marriage or try to escape her responsibilities and pretend she's single again.
> 
> Ok, you came to us for help. I don't know if you actually want to be helped based on your reactions. Dude, you can't be this dense to not see how you're the one doing all of the work in this relationship and how she's planning her escape. You have to get you sh!t together and prepare yourself for divorce, because you're not dealing with average problems with her.... You're dealing with sh!t that shouldn't even be happening this soon in your marriage.
> 
> You married way too young, started a family too soon, and married the wrong damn person who can't act like an adult. Ok, adults do not have close opposite sex "special friends" they call sweeite AND spouses... It's either or, they don't wear trashy clothes that invite others to hit on them, they don't leave their kids while they go out partying with friends... Unless this is something they've discussed with their spouses in which case they discuss their plan with you, and they certainly don't make all of these excuses to overstep your boundaries because someone who wants to act like an adult and wants to stay married will make their marriage and family life a priority.
> 
> *When was the last time she did any real work in this marriage instead blame shifting on you making you feel like crap for telling her "this is unacceptable" and suggesting ways you can have fun together?*
> 
> You keep beating yourself up for not meeting her emotional needs, while she's not doing the same for you. Trust is an emotional need too! You need to put your foot down *NOW* and tell her you're going to leave her if she keeps this up, because she's getting ready to leave you for "greener pastures" and you do not want to be the one fighting for your marriage when she's f*cking some pothead, setting up shop with him while she's toying with you and giving you some bullsh!t list of demands to meet that will never make her happy.
> 
> *Remember you came here for advice, and you're not listening to what people with experience in the exact same things have to say.*


i can honestly say i can't remember the last time she did any effort, i do understand what you are saying she doesn't really go out i think the last time she went out was a year ago. 

So lets go back to the start, how do i approach the situation remembering that i just brought her flowers so atm she thinks everything is ok, I want to listen to you guys but not stupid comments like get her to leave her job. 

something like a plan.

1. We know she's not going out in the nightie, but going to buy clothes to go out. 

I did get asked by her mate if i am going out, because her b/f is staying in with me " a lads night in", so we will see how this pans out.

now i do get the cheating aspect or shall i say the single because she mentioned that a special dj is there, if you ever watch the programme on tv gordie shore on MUJV she wants to see him and touch him cause "he famous" so am abit like wtf he's a dj, again i don't know if this is a **** test or just some wierd thing but she wants to be near the booth, so we will class this as a red flag! i am definately abit uncomfortable with it but again we are talking a month away so i can plan how to approach it. 

Gym guy weedy ben i will keep an eye on this, and snoop lower i will need to identify any kind of sh!t going on.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostwithouthope said:


> so you want my want my wife to quit her job loose her friendship with girlmates over somebloke that i mentioned?? so you are asking me to risk my marriage over a job because if i told her to change job i will look a complete noob and yes she would divorce me over it.
> 
> how have i failed the test?? i have already told her no to the nightie which she isn't wearing but she still is going out. i can't stop her from going out, seems there people on here that are waay over controlling the whole point is to let her go out have a good time but no pesture her, some people will say go out with her again looking needy and controlling, shes a wife and a mum she needs to let off steam, not letting her go out will eventually lead her to cheating i have to trust her. I agree there are red flags i need to up my game abit but asking stupid things like loosing a job when we have a child is just insane and not using your common savvy.
> 
> i am asking for practical advice to deal with the situation in hand and how to deal with future ones so i know how to approach it. sometimes we blokes can be idiots so i am no perfect angel


I am not a noob. Quit worrying what you would look like and be a husband.

She is married. She should not be going out clubbing with single women to hang out with guys who want to bang her.

She should come home after the toy and lingerie party and bang your balls out of the park. My wife has not gone to one of these in years, but that is what she did. 

Let off steam? WTF? Does let off steam include drinking and hanging out with other men? Being groped and so on? That is not blowing off steam that is being single and possibly blowing off another bloke in the parking lot.

No I do not see flags. I see your wife being unfaithful and disrespectful. I see you putting us on here. If you are serious you are too afraid to do what you need to do.

You are risking your marriage by doing nothing.


----------



## Dollystanford

If I was a husband I wouldn't let my wife within ten miles of anyone off Geordie Shore

Just sayin


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Entropy3000 said:


> I am not a noob. Quit worrying what you would look like and be a husband.
> 
> She is married. She should not be going out clubbing with single women to hang out with guys who want to bang her.
> 
> She should come home after the toy and lingerie party and bang your balls out of the park. My wife has not gone to one of these in years, but that is what she did.
> 
> Let off steam? WTF? Does let off steam include drinking and hanging out with other men? Being groped and so on? That is not blowing off steam that is being single and possibly blowing off another bloke in the parking lot.
> 
> No I do not see flags. I see your wife being unfaithful and disrespectful. I see you putting us on here. If you are serious you are too afraid to do what you need to do.
> 
> You are risking your marriage by doing nothing.



The lingerie party is at ours, i agree that i feel that my wife is disrespectful in regards to the unfaithful that has yet to be seen.

However she threw me a curveball today, she wants me to go out clubbing tomorrow on my own so that she can have a bath, watch sh!t on tv and have an early night, when i said i wasn't she seemed quite upset. TO me this is a definite red flag isn't a married wife want to spend time with their husband as they work most of the time? i get the feeling that either A)she's boored with me and/or wanting me to slip up or be tempted or B) She's getting her kinks from elsewhere.

So do i go out come home early? or stay in? something is definately not right here. 

What would you guys do?

Thanks


----------



## Cosmos

Lostwithouthope said:


> However she threw me a curveball today, she wants me to go out clubbing tomorrow on my own so that she can have a bath, watch sh!t on tv and have an early night, when i said i wasn't she seemed quite upset. TO me this is a definite red flag isn't a married wife want to spend time with their husband as they work most of the time?


I can only think of one reason why your W would be upset that you won't go out clubbing without her. She intends using it to shut you down should you object to her going out clubbing without you.

I'm sorry, OP, but I can't think of any better advice than you have already been given on this thread.


----------



## deejov

Cosmos said:


> I can only think of one reason why your W would be upset that you won't go out clubbing without her. She intends using it to shut you down should you object to her going out clubbing without you.
> 
> I'm sorry, OP, but I can't think of any better advice than you have already been given on this thread.



This.

All I have to say here is....
Be the excitement she is looking for. 
Expend some energy in finding other married couples to hang out with. I think that is what you are missing. 

I'm speaking from personal perspective, though. I had my son when I was 21, and I remember feeling so left out from all my friends. Until I found new friends 
My cousin had a common law relationship \ baby with a younger girl, he was 33 she was 22. They are no longer together. She did very similar things, We ALL saw it coming. She didn't disappoint us.


----------



## Shaggy

My advice, 

Increase the amount of meaningful couples time and activities you do together.

You need to date your wife.

And you need to engineer/build the relationship so that the two of your are each others go to for stress relief.

Right now she's using the work / gym guy Ben, clubbing and hanging with girls and other guys to relax, unwind, and be social.

And there in lies the problem in your relationship. She's young, and surrounding herself with singles and not you when she is relaxing. She will inevitably be approached by men and hit upon. All it takes is one to play the game right and you've got big problems.

Rule 1. It's not controlling to c-ckblock your wife. It's playing the game smart.

The best strategy isn't to outright forbid her from going out alone, it's to engineer the relationship so that she doesn't want to go alone. She wants you along because you are her best bud and go to person with her thoughts and feelings.

You do that by building a strong and rich personal relationship with her through shared activity, like working out together, sports, trips, talking etc. 

You don't tell her you are doing this, you instead do it, and encourage her to join you.

Basically you lead here in the direction it needs to go. That's at the heart of The Married Mans Sex Life by Kay Athol. Get it and read it.

You'll need to find a stready and reliable babysitter so you both have the time to be together. You need tine together when you aren't being parents.

The key is to not be a passive participant in the direction of the relationship, but instead a leader.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

deejov said:


> This.
> 
> All I have to say here is....
> Be the excitement she is looking for.
> Expend some energy in finding other married couples to hang out with. I think that is what you are missing.
> 
> I'm speaking from personal perspective, though. I had my son when I was 21, and I remember feeling so left out from all my friends. Until I found new friends
> My cousin had a common law relationship \ baby with a younger girl, he was 33 she was 22. They are no longer together. She did very similar things, We ALL saw it coming. She didn't disappoint us.


Ok thank you, so what i need to do is go out and meet new people? Concentrate on me and go out have a good time and stop putting too much effort into trying to meet her expectations.

The thing is i am listening to you guys i am just in denial and don't know how to deal with it. I get the impression that cause her mates are single and having a good time she's missing the fun as she is still young, but she wants to plan to go on holiday in November and have a child next year sounds more like have her cake and eat it scenario. 


This means making her miss me,


----------



## Shaggy

Lostwithouthope said:


> Ok thank you, so what i need to do is go out and meet new people? Concentrate on me and go out have a good time and stop putting too much effort into trying to meet her expectations.
> 
> The thing is i am listening to you guys i am just in denial and don't know how to deal with it. I get the impression that cause her mates are single and having a good time she's missing the fun as she is still young, but she wants to plan to go on holiday in November and have a child next year sounds more like have her cake and eat it scenario.
> 
> 
> This means making her miss me,


I don't think you pulling away will help her miss you. It will encourage her to find other people to fill the void you leave.

Instead you want to begin training her to spend her free time with you. You do this by building the relationship with her, and go get her hooked and dependent on you.

You did thus when dating. Having a kid took away from your time together as a couple. Do not let others fill the void in her.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Shaggy said:


> My advice,
> 
> Increase the amount of meaningful couples time and activities you do together.
> 
> You need to date your wife.
> 
> And you need to engineer/build the relationship so that the two of your are each others go to for stress relief.
> 
> Right now she's using the work / gym guy Ben, clubbing and hanging with girls and other guys to relax, unwind, and be social.
> 
> And there in lies the problem in your relationship. She's young, and surrounding herself with singles and not you when she is relaxing. She will inevitably be approached by men and hit upon. All it takes is one to play the game right and you've got big problems.
> 
> Rule 1. It's not controlling to c-ckblock your wife. It's playing the game smart.
> 
> The best strategy isn't to outright forbid her from going out alone, it's to engineer the relationship so that she doesn't want to go alone. She wants you along because you are her best bud and go to person with her thoughts and feelings.
> 
> You do that by building a strong and rich personal relationship with her through shared activity, like working out together, sports, trips, talking etc.
> 
> You don't tell her you are doing this, you instead do it, and encourage her to join you.
> 
> Basically you lead here in the direction it needs to go. That's at the heart of The Married Mans Sex Life by Kay Athol. Get it and read it.
> 
> You'll need to find a stready and reliable babysitter so you both have the time to be together. You need tine together when you aren't being parents.
> 
> The key is to not be a passive participant in the direction of the relationship, but instead a leader.


Thank you bro, that is good advice.

I need to start doing this Now, ill see if i can get a baby sitter tomorrow and instead of us staying indoors i take her out, but i need to take lead and plan it without her knowing.

I also believe this boils down to me not being a great listener, so she goes to people who will, not good. 

This will also mean joining the gym with her, she did invite me at the start but i shrugged it off as it's quite expensive. We have monday together so i could plan a day out picnic or something.


----------



## BrockLanders

Get a babysitter and follow her into the club wearing your "Free Mustache Rides" T-shirt while sporting a bad 70s porn mustache. The embarrassment alone will incite her to leave the club.


----------



## Deejo

She's just not ready.

Wanted the wedding.

Doesn't want to be married. She resents what she is missing. And the dead bang easy target for that resentment, is you.

But ... she isn't about to give up the perks. Namely, your assistance in providing all of the homey comforts. She'll push boundaries, complain, and may even attempt to forge some inappropriate relationships.

What do you need to do? 

Clearly decide what your dealbreakers are. Make sure she is aware of them ... and enforce them, vigorously.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Deejo said:


> She's just not ready.
> 
> Wanted the wedding.
> 
> Doesn't want to be married. She resents what she is missing. And the dead bang easy target for that resentment, is you.
> 
> But ... she isn't about to give up the perks. Namely, your assistance in providing all of the homey comforts. She'll push boundaries, complain, and may even attempt to forge some inappropriate relationships.
> 
> What do you need to do?
> 
> Clearly decide what your dealbreakers are. Make sure she is aware of them ... and enforce them, vigorously.


Thanks Bro 

I can see the resentment part, when i brought her the flowers she said thank you and they are beautiful but her actions show are totally different. 

Like she doesn't want anyone to know about it. 

Ok guys i need to write down and set some boundaries, now i need to think about how i'm going to approach her about it.


----------



## deejov

Lostwithouthope said:


> Ok thank you, so what i need to do is go out and meet new people? Concentrate on me and go out have a good time and stop putting too much effort into trying to meet her expectations.
> 
> The thing is i am listening to you guys i am just in denial and don't know how to deal with it. I get the impression that cause her mates are single and having a good time she's missing the fun as she is still young, but she wants to plan to go on holiday in November and have a child next year sounds more like have her cake and eat it scenario.
> 
> 
> This means making her miss me,


NO, not really what I was saying.
You both need a social life. 
You are missing a social life as a couple.

Make an effort to meet other married couples.
Make plans together with other couples.
Show her the fun part of being married. It's not all doom and gloom and "no fun", is it?

And like Shaggy said. Exactly. Be the leader. Take her out for a fun night.


----------



## BrockLanders

Lostwithouthope said:


> Thanks Bro
> 
> I can see the resentment part, when i brought her the flowers she said thank you and they are beautiful but her actions show are totally different.
> 
> Like she doesn't want anyone to know about it.
> 
> Ok guys i need to write down and set some boundaries, now i need to think about how i'm going to approach her about it.


She's feeling buyers remorse and she's floating between single and married life. She needs to make a choice, or you do.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

BrockLanders said:


> She's feeling buyers remorse and she's floating between single and married life. She needs to make a choice, or you do.



:iagree:

I guess the only person who can change whether she wants the marriage is herself, all i can do is take the advice from Shaggy and be the leader and date her.


----------



## jfv

Just tell her that you refuse to be married to someone who wants to act single. 

Do your part as a husband and date her. 

She still wants to act single? Leave.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostwithouthope said:


> The lingerie party is at ours, i agree that i feel that my wife is disrespectful in regards to the unfaithful that has yet to be seen.
> 
> However she threw me a curveball today, she wants me to go out clubbing tomorrow on my own so that she can have a bath, watch sh!t on tv and have an early night, when i said i wasn't she seemed quite upset. TO me this is a definite red flag isn't a married wife want to spend time with their husband as they work most of the time? i get the feeling that either A)she's boored with me and/or wanting me to slip up or be tempted or B) She's getting her kinks from elsewhere.
> 
> So do i go out come home early? or stay in? something is definately not right here.
> 
> What would you guys do?
> 
> Thanks


I am down with the lingerie party. In fact handled in the right way this is a plus. Handled the way they said is just foreplay. And you are not involved.

My wife asking me to go clubbing on my own would be like her telling me I could have a mistress. My wife telling me I could have a mistrees means she is just not into me any more and is banging or will be banging some other guy or guys.

We could call all these red flags and they are but I think they real overt red flags. 

You need to reclaim your wife and rock her world. 
Now easily said indeed. But you need to establish better boundaries.

Ideally a couple discuss, agrees upon, implements and monitors boundaries. This is a couple with true intimacy. It is one of mutual respect and love. 

But we do not live in an ideal world. This relationship stuff is not as easy as rocket science. 
But you need to assert your boundaries. This sounds controlling but in your case her boundaries are really slipping as fast as a hot date after foreplay. We cannot control people. But we should not enable them, nor should we accept any of their behavior that crosses our own fundmental bounaries. We teach people how to treat us. Realize that many if not most wives long for their husband to care at all. Allowing her behavior comes off as some combination of Naivete, laziness and / or ambivalence. Show her you care. Show her she does not need the bigger better deal. Show her you have value. 

A woman wants a man she can value. Be that guy.

You may still have a chance to save this thing.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostwithouthope said:


> Ok thank you, so what i need to do is go out and meet new people? Concentrate on me and go out have a good time and stop putting too much effort into trying to meet her expectations.
> 
> The thing is i am listening to you guys i am just in denial and don't know how to deal with it. I get the impression that cause her mates are single and having a good time she's missing the fun as she is still young, but she wants to plan to go on holiday in November and have a child next year sounds more like have her cake and eat it scenario.
> 
> 
> This means making her miss me,


Ummmm. Hell no. You need to bond with your wife. Not do a 180.

Toxic friends.


----------



## Cosmos

deejov said:


> NO, not really what I was saying.
> You both need a social life.
> You are missing a social life as a couple.
> 
> Make an effort to meet other married couples.
> Make plans together with other couples.
> Show her the fun part of being married. It's not all doom and gloom and "no fun", is it?
> 
> And like Shaggy said. Exactly. Be the leader. Take her out for a fun night.


:iagree:

When we're single we socialize as singles. When we're married we socialize as couples. Frankly, nothing beats socializing with good, mutual friends. It's one of the perks of being in a relationship, IMO.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Hey Guys 

Thought i would give you an update

So tonight i just came out and opened up about everything, maybe not in the right way but asserting our boundaries, what really blew me off was when she asked for a cuddle, didn't even give me one then decided to answer her telephone to a mate instead.... 

I just said it seems that you don't want this marriage, she asked why i paused for a moment then told her " a wife does not go out flaunting a nightie to other men" a wife does not go to the gym with a male co-worker" or make some sleezy comment about seeing someone famous especially gordie shore" atm the moment i do not trust you, her quick response was well your just have to deal with it. 

Then she said " he's just a mate aren't i allowed to have friends" i then said it's not acceptable and i am putting my foot down. I don't mind you going to the gym but not with him, and if i ever find out you have then i'm out the door.

She said fine i wont go the gym i will just be fat and have no life, ill cancel the ann summers. i basically said i will fight for this marriage even if i have to fight you. Being married there are boundaries and you have to have abit of commonsense, going out in a tacky nightie is not acceptable, would you mind me taking lady to the gym i don't think you would like that one bit.

I also said it seems abit one sided, and gave her examples when i asked her what effort she has put in She couldn't say anything. i think she was abit shocked but i have discovered something.

1 IF she leaves i know that she wasn't committed and didn't value or respect our marriage, i should of set these a loooong time ago but i was afraid of loosing her. She did cry and try and throw the guilt trip of ill have no life ill just be a full time housewife.


----------



## the guy

So she just told you she has no life bing Mrs. Lostwithouthope?

Man she need to figure out what she wants, cuz she can't have both a married life and a single life! 

Sorry your old lady feels this way. Maybe its time to find a women that really wants to be with you and not just a husband when she needs one.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

the guy said:


> So she just told you she has no life bing Mrs. Lostwithouthope?
> 
> Man she need to figure out what she wants, cuz she can't have both a married life and a single life!
> 
> Sorry your old lady feels this way. Maybe its time to find a women that really wants to be with you and not just a husband when she needs one.



I don't know what she wants either, it seems that she wants her cake and eat it. I am more of a kitchen appliance only wants me when she needs me. 

The problem was i let it get to far, it maybe to late to set the boundaries, but thanks you guys you made me see reality, she always has excuses and doesn't like to take responsibility for her own choices so i get the guilt blame. 

last response i got from her that she might leave, which i see as a deal breaker that she doesn't value the marriage, and i hope your happy that i wont have no life. this is some of the immaturity i have to deal with. 

lets see what happens tomorrow


----------



## Wiserforit

Lostwithouthope said:


> last response i got from her that she might leave,


Good riddance.

This is the emotional blackmail no-win situation where you can have either an awful wife or no wife.

But no wife is a better option than an awful wife.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostwithouthope said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> Thought i would give you an update
> 
> So tonight i just came out and opened up about everything, maybe not in the right way but asserting our boundaries, what really blew me off was when she asked for a cuddle, didn't even give me one then decided to answer her telephone to a mate instead....
> 
> I just said it seems that you don't want this marriage, she asked why i paused for a moment then told her " a wife does not go out flaunting a nightie to other men" a wife does not go to the gym with a male co-worker" or make some sleezy comment about seeing someone famous especially gordie shore" atm the moment i do not trust you, her quick response was well your just have to deal with it.
> 
> Then she said " he's just a mate aren't i allowed to have friends" i then said it's not acceptable and i am putting my foot down. I don't mind you going to the gym but not with him, and if i ever find out you have then i'm out the door.
> 
> She said fine i wont go the gym i will just be fat and have no life, ill cancel the ann summers. i basically said i will fight for this marriage even if i have to fight you. Being married there are boundaries and you have to have abit of commonsense, going out in a tacky nightie is not acceptable, would you mind me taking lady to the gym i don't think you would like that one bit.
> 
> I also said it seems abit one sided, and gave her examples when i asked her what effort she has put in She couldn't say anything. i think she was abit shocked but i have discovered something.
> 
> 1 IF she leaves i know that she wasn't committed and didn't value or respect our marriage, i should of set these a loooong time ago but i was afraid of loosing her. She did cry and try and throw the guilt trip of ill have no life ill just be a full time housewife.


Very good. You did not take the bait. You passed these tests. Notice how she then says she cannot go to the gym or the lingerie party. Which was not what you said. I would be tempted to tell her I wanted her to go to the party and I am fine with the gym. However, I think in your case silence may be better. You do not want to undue what you have done. Plus there might actually be good reason for your marriage she not go to the gym or this party right now. Why? I have no idea but maybe there are already other guys hitting on her there. 

So now you need to start rocking her world. Can you guys go away for a weekend somewhere and have some fun?


----------



## Cosmos

Lostwithouthope said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> Thought i would give you an update
> 
> So tonight i just came out and opened up about everything, maybe not in the right way but asserting our boundaries, what really blew me off was when she asked for a cuddle, didn't even give me one then decided to answer her telephone to a mate instead....
> 
> I just said it seems that you don't want this marriage, she asked why i paused for a moment then told her " a wife does not go out flaunting a nightie to other men" a wife does not go to the gym with a male co-worker" or make some sleezy comment about seeing someone famous especially gordie shore" atm the moment i do not trust you, her quick response was well your just have to deal with it.
> 
> Then she said " he's just a mate aren't i allowed to have friends" i then said it's not acceptable and i am putting my foot down. I don't mind you going to the gym but not with him, and if i ever find out you have then i'm out the door.
> 
> She said fine i wont go the gym i will just be fat and have no life, ill cancel the ann summers. i basically said i will fight for this marriage even if i have to fight you. Being married there are boundaries and you have to have abit of commonsense, going out in a tacky nightie is not acceptable, would you mind me taking lady to the gym i don't think you would like that one bit.
> 
> I also said it seems abit one sided, and gave her examples when i asked her what effort she has put in She couldn't say anything. i think she was abit shocked but i have discovered something.
> 
> 1 IF she leaves i know that she wasn't committed and didn't value or respect our marriage, i should of set these a loooong time ago but i was afraid of loosing her. She did cry and try and throw the guilt trip of ill have no life ill just be a full time housewife.


OP, I think you handled that _really_ well! You have to stand firm on this, or she won't respect you. If she does value your marriage and wants to hang on to it, it's my guess that you've taken the first step towards making her sit up and take notice.

Stick to those boundaries, because without them your marriage will be worth nothing.

I truly hope this is a turning point for you.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Hey all 

Update 

Get the popcorn ready.

Well it's been an interesting night, she started by asking if i loved her which do then she came with " u are not my dad we set joint rules u dont control me to make rules you speak to me first"

me " i do when it comes to blokes or wearing inappropriate attire, and visa versa if i crossed the line it would be the same"

her" no sorry thats where its not going to work u dont set rules u speak to me about it then we decide. domy just decide on your own, ur going to fine yourself alone"

me" well if u cant accept it we are better off alone, im not having my wife galavanting, sorry that but that how it works 

her"fine"

me" ok come get your stuff tomorrow"

her"proves what you think of me"

me"yep no values and dissrespectful"

her" do you know something i have never been hurt like this, im sorry i am not the perfect wife material but ur are sufforcating me, i feel like your child not ur wife"

me"look you either accept the boundaries or im leaving"

her" no cuz there bits in there i dont agree u wear stuff i dont like im not that shallow to let it affect me"

me"what i wear like what" dont try and twist it onto me u want to look tacky going out, go ahead being single"

her"thanks for boosting my self confidence why dont you throw something about my weight or how i look"

me"dont throw your emotional guilt at me either stop it or this conversation is finished"

her"im not im telling you how i feel you just dont care or give a ****" just go to bed and wake up in a better mood" 

me" see your doing it again not falling for it this time night"

her"suggested why?"

me"you trying emotional blame i have set my boundaries you can accept it or enjoy being single"

her"im accepting it til we can compromise im not going to the gym with ben, but i will not be told what i can and cannot wear"

me" like i said im not having a wife wearing "suck me "plain and simple"

her"i will find another one"

so far we have had, emotional blackmail/guilt im not biting. wake up this morning to this 

her" this is affecting me i dont know where i stand what to do, ive been so miserable at work, we need to decide what to do, if you cant accept me for who i am then we are not right for each other"

me"i accept who you are but it's the actions i dont agree with, this isn't a mutual agreement these are boundaries and what i am saying to you if you dont agree, then im sorry this wont work.

her"that us not going to work, im not being told what to do without discussing it" the marriage is based your way its unfair"

me"were going round in circles here, im sticking to my boundaries i have set as a husband"

her" u need to losen your grip on me, im not going to cheat on you or what ever but if you can't u will loose me. i cant stay with a controlling marriage if you cant accept it, then i guess we are not meant to be"

me" i am not changing my boundaries " controlling or not"

her " ok well this isn't the the marriage or the man i married so i guess thats it. just think it's stupid u have thrown away our whole marriage or not compromising

me"ok like i said go and be single cause im not having it"

SO guys did i approach it properly.....


----------



## Cosmos

She will continue to turn this around on you until she gets her own way (which I have a feeling she's been used to doing), so it's important that you stick to your guns over marital boundaries.

Next time she tries to tell you that you both need to agree boundaries in your marriage, tell her that she already did that when she married you. She agreed to become your W. There was no caveat that she would do so but continue behaving like a single woman (frequenting clubs wearing "I like to suck" - or whatever those words were - nighties)...

Tell her that you love her and want the marriage to work, but GNOs wearing highly suggestive garb designed to get the wrong sort of attention won't be tolerated by you.

You're not trying to stop her having the odd night out with her friends (drinks, dinner or a movie), but you are quite rightly trying to stop her having a GNO where she behaves like a single woman (clubbing). 

There is a big difference between control and healthy boundaries, IMO.


----------



## MrK

There was an old thread I read on this site, when I first came here years ago to get over my wife's clubbing spree. It was about clubbing being "legitimate infidelity". They can go out, troll for men who buy them drinks, they flirt, they dance, they basically party with strange men you will NEVER hear about. But it's "just dancing". If you can't handle it you are a jealous, controlling Neanderthal.

Well, you are that controlling neanderthal because you won't let her go out and have some fun with her girlfriends.

You: "Honey, I'm sorry about how I've been acting. You are right. I've been a monster and I don't know why. I DO want you to go out and have fun with the girls. I'd prefer you not wear the "I swallow" t-shirt, but please go out and have fun"

Then you spy. Have a friend who doesn't know her do it or a PI will be better if you can afford it. Cell phone video will be best, but a detailed description so she knows you know will work.

She's 23? This clubbing thing has just started. And going after a sex toy party wearing ****ty clothes? How she can deny it's not about the men is beyond me. She's going for the men. And having a report about the first (and last) one will nip it. Do it any other way and you are a controlling jerk who won;t let her out. You are her daddy. Prove to her that you know it is to party with strange men, and you have a case. A good case.

And as a bonus, you'll see that bong-hit-Ben was invited to show up. Oh, she didn't tell you?

I think you are the 1,000th poster I have given this advice to. Do me a favor and be the first to take me up on it. Then report back. 

Please.


----------



## Entropy3000

Do His Needs her Needs together.

I think you are doing great. She was trying to manipuate you. She is frustrated because this has always worked before.

First, there should be compromise in marriage. BUT and this is a big BUT, you should never ever compromise fundamental boundaries. By definition a boundary is failed if there is compromise. Think of the prhase, my integrity has been compromised. See in this context compromise is a failure. A breakdown. Something that has been breached. This is why you need to be clear on your boundaries.

Next up. POJA. Policy Of Joint Agreement. Basically this says the each spouse has veto power. It is a form of agreement. But it means that if a spouse is going to change the marriage. Like she is suggesting. That you both have to be ok with it.

Me thinks she protests too much. She has something in her mind she is hell bent on OR she is already involved. 

Ultimately just tell her, you will not be disrespected. I love the you are not my dad. It s very telling. See dads c0ckblock. In the teen years dads try to exert control on their children who are becoming sexual in a protective way knowing eventually they will be going off and finding a mate. A husband is way more than a dad. Yes, this is a relationship with a man. A husband has way more stake in his wife in terms of her sexual behavior than her dad eve did. So perhaps she has daddy issues.


----------



## Shaggy

I don't think you are tackling it correctly, sorry but I think your getting taken for a tangential ride and not dealing with the real issues.

1. This isn't about her wearing a trashy shirt. This is entirely about her wearing a trashy shirt out clubbing without you. Clubs are meat markets. Guys don't pay a cover charge and way over pay for drinks for any reason other then they want to get laid. 

If she wanted to buy the shirt and wear if for you , to attract you, that would be ok, but she's not doing that. She's buying a notice me , notice me, notice me shirt and running straight to a club full of men looking to hook up.

2. She's turning to others outside the marriage for companionship and socialization. 

You aren't going to guilt or argue her into changing this choice, you. Are only going to show her a more attractive option and to get her to switch to it.

Back when you first met her, did you walk up and demand she date you? Did you demand she change how she depends her social time do that you were now her #1 priority? No you didn't, you woo'd her, you built a relationship, and you made yourself the one she wanted to choose to be with.

And you need to do that now and forever.

You don't ban her from doing X, but you do arrange to insert yourself into it. If it is something that you aren't invited to, like clubbing with single girls, you find a more attractive choice and ask her to come with you.


You are trying to ram it down her throat, and she's naturally going to fight back.


----------



## Shaggy

Get and read Married Mans Sex Life Primer.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shaggy, I agree with you that he needs to insert himself into her activities. And I get what you are saying. But he cannot let her start doing these things. Putting the genie back in the bottle is next to impossible. 

So he cannot go along with her doing what she is proposing.

But I go back to what I previously posted. You and I fundamentally agree.

If this was my young wife. And she wanted this type of excitement, I would give it to her. I could definiyely live the La Vida Loca with her.

1) Her exclusive lover
2) Het best male friend
3) Her husband

These are my priorities.

So as long as she was with me I would be fine with wild stuff. It may not be what I would prmote for my marriage, but I'll be [email protected] if I am going to let my wife go wild with other men. I want to be that guy. I would make love to her on the beach. I would go clubbing with her. She could even wear a freaking nightie with me. She could lose the under garments. We could role play where I pick her up. And so on. My wife could cheat with her lover. Me.


----------



## Nsweet

C'mon guys, be logical here. She's not going to going to do 'His Needs: Her Needs' together with him, because she thinks she's always right and there's no need to change herself, it's always going to be turned around on him. 

To be honest with you *Lostwithouthope*, I don't think you're dealing with mentally stable wife here. The whole acting like a teenager thing, avoidance of perceived abandonment, checking out of this relationship and setting up shop with sweetie, starting fights with you to create drama for the sake of drama, her playing the pity card on you ALL THE TIME.... It's not normal, and so the regular divorce advice is not won't help you all that much. 

You didn't hear it from me, but those some common signs of certain personality disorders. And to be perfectly clear those are things we all do at times, and a psychologist has to diagnose a person for them to have it, but what I'm seeing here are the common signs. Did you check out that shrink4men site like I sent you? There's a common theme.

Here I'll spell it out for you, you meet a girl who seems too good to be true and hangs on your every word telling you how perfect you are and pushing you into a relationship too fast. They call this the idealization phase. 

Once she has you she starts to blame shift her problems on you, the sex dries up to little or nothing, and you're made to feel like an assh*le for trying to hold her accountable. Going through this feel like a bait and switch because she's not the person you thought you married. This is reality, who she really is. 

Then some problems that arise based on how you handle yourself around her. If don't learn what to do and play be her every shifting rules that she makes, breaks, and changes at will and spend your whole marriage trying to make her happy.... She's going to leave you ASAP.

On the other hand if you learn to set boundaries early enough and show her, actually show her you're going to leave her if she crosses the line, she will respect you. But a big part of this is you have to either be one badassmotherf*cker with women, or learn what to do because there's a certain set of guidelines that will screw you over if you take everything she does as face value and reward her bad behavior with affection all the time. 

If you fail, the next steps are what she's pretty much doing now. She pulls away and finds a guy she can misbehave with, she treats you like crap and pushes your buttons so she can justify in her mind that you're some douch like all her exes, and she sets up shop with him by doing the exact same things with sweetie that she did with you. 

Now, I don't want to get in any debates over whether or not she has borderline personality disorder, I'm just going to say she displays some but not all of those signs. And she may be mature enough to reconcile with, but you won't be able to tell until you stop riding the roller coaster learn what the hell you're supposed to do. 

That's why I'm suggesting "Stop Walking On Eggshells." *Lostwithouthope*, dude I got this ebook! If you want a copy just pm me your email address. I even have have some books and audio cook on everything from narcissists to dating advice you can use with your wife later on. I collect ebooks on a massive external hard drive.


----------



## jfv

Lostwithouthope said:


> Hey all
> 
> Update
> 
> Get the popcorn ready.
> 
> Well it's been an interesting night, she started by asking if i loved her which do then she came with " u are not my dad we set joint rules u dont control me to make rules you speak to me first"
> 
> me " i do when it comes to blokes or wearing inappropriate attire, and visa versa if i crossed the line it would be the same"
> 
> her" no sorry thats where its not going to work u dont set rules u speak to me about it then we decide. domy just decide on your own, ur going to fine yourself alone"
> 
> me" well if u cant accept it we are better off alone, im not having my wife galavanting, sorry that but that how it works
> 
> her"fine"
> 
> me" ok come get your stuff tomorrow"
> 
> her"proves what you think of me"
> 
> me"yep no values and dissrespectful"
> 
> her" do you know something i have never been hurt like this, im sorry i am not the perfect wife material but ur are sufforcating me, i feel like your child not ur wife"
> 
> me"look you either accept the boundaries or im leaving"
> 
> her" no cuz there bits in there i dont agree u wear stuff i dont like im not that shallow to let it affect me"
> 
> me"what i wear like what" dont try and twist it onto me u want to look tacky going out, go ahead being single"
> 
> her"thanks for boosting my self confidence why dont you throw something about my weight or how i look"
> 
> me"dont throw your emotional guilt at me either stop it or this conversation is finished"
> 
> her"im not im telling you how i feel you just dont care or give a ****" just go to bed and wake up in a better mood"
> 
> me" see your doing it again not falling for it this time night"
> 
> her"suggested why?"
> 
> me"you trying emotional blame i have set my boundaries you can accept it or enjoy being single"
> 
> her"im accepting it til we can compromise im not going to the gym with ben, but i will not be told what i can and cannot wear"
> 
> me" like i said im not having a wife wearing "suck me "plain and simple"
> 
> her"i will find another one"
> 
> so far we have had, emotional blackmail/guilt im not biting. wake up this morning to this
> 
> her" this is affecting me i dont know where i stand what to do, ive been so miserable at work, we need to decide what to do, if you cant accept me for who i am then we are not right for each other"
> 
> me"i accept who you are but it's the actions i dont agree with, this isn't a mutual agreement these are boundaries and what i am saying to you if you dont agree, then im sorry this wont work.
> 
> her"that us not going to work, im not being told what to do without discussing it" the marriage is based your way its unfair"
> 
> me"were going round in circles here, im sticking to my boundaries i have set as a husband"
> 
> her" u need to losen your grip on me, im not going to cheat on you or what ever but if you can't u will loose me. i cant stay with a controlling marriage if you cant accept it, then i guess we are not meant to be"
> 
> me" i am not changing my boundaries " controlling or not"
> 
> her " ok well this isn't the the marriage or the man i married so i guess thats it. just think it's stupid u have thrown away our whole marriage or not compromising
> 
> me"ok like i said go and be single cause im not having it"
> 
> SO guys did i approach it properly.....


Good job. You alone know what you are able to live with. Compromise is necessary in a relationship. But never on your CORE values. This is why compatibility is so important. 

If she cannot live within those parameters then she was not the woman you were looking for. And you are not the man for her. This is not the end of the world. If your lucky you'll figure this out sooner than later. 

People who are not compatible fall in love all the time. And it eventually leads to one or both becoming miserable if they decide to live day to day in a relationship.

Better you deal with that reality now while you are young and find someone who shares your views on how a married person should behave.


----------



## Conrad

Shaggy said:


> I don't think you are tackling it correctly, sorry but I think your getting taken for a tangential ride and not dealing with the real issues.
> 
> 1. This isn't about her wearing a trashy shirt. This is entirely about her wearing a trashy shirt out clubbing without you. Clubs are meat markets. Guys don't pay a cover charge and way over pay for drinks for any reason other then they want to get laid.
> 
> If she wanted to buy the shirt and wear if for you , to attract you, that would be ok, but she's not doing that. She's buying a notice me , notice me, notice me shirt and running straight to a club full of men looking to hook up.
> 
> 2. She's turning to others outside the marriage for companionship and socialization.
> 
> You aren't going to guilt or argue her into changing this choice, you. Are only going to show her a more attractive option and to get her to switch to it.
> 
> Back when you first met her, did you walk up and demand she date you? Did you demand she change how she depends her social time do that you were now her #1 priority? No you didn't, you woo'd her, you built a relationship, and you made yourself the one she wanted to choose to be with.
> 
> And you need to do that now and forever.
> 
> You don't ban her from doing X, but you do arrange to insert yourself into it. If it is something that you aren't invited to, like clubbing with single girls, you find a more attractive choice and ask her to come with you.
> 
> 
> You are trying to ram it down her throat, and she's naturally going to fight back.


He's talking way too much.

You're not talking to a man, where you're going to win a debate on points.


----------



## BrockLanders

Who wears a shirt saying something like that, married or not? I'm far from being a prude but that's just over the top trashiness.


----------



## Entropy3000

BrockLanders said:


> Who wears a shirt saying something like that, married or not? I'm far from being a prude but that's just over the top trashiness.


Someone who wants to blow some guy in the parking lot.


----------



## Wiserforit

Conrad said:


> He's talking way too much.


Yeah, manipulative people are famous for continuing to go around in circles, trying to wear you down. That behavior alone is offensive - the broken record. 

State your boundaries, then stop talking. Don't legitimize their bad behavior by continuing to respond to it.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Hey all thought i could give you and update

Thank you all for your advice, i have a had her acting like a 13 year old today crying, and shift blame. 

At first she got home and was in tears a saying that " she wants to die and you dont care" i just stood my ground and said that you are playing these guilt trip games is not going to work.

next 30 minutes total change "personality disorder" she was trying to tease me pinching, punching just mocking but i let it slide" she was seeing if she could push me to get angry" 

next 1 hr go shopping and again total change, this time to blame saying i hate her" how any one could put up with me" i bet i have someone" you name it i got abuse saying were finished.

I get home she wanted help doing something, i just said "after all this sh!t do it yourself"

i was in the lounge cooling not to bite.

GUESS WHAT . she apologies for the way she was in the 4 fooking years she has never in an adult tone apologies for anything only shift blame. she asked for a cuddles and actualy talked to me about her problems at work and we had a great afternoon, i romanced her this evening and shes now asleep. 

She also asked me what would look nice going out, this is a total change and even said she might not even go out cause she wants to spend time with me. 

Thank you all, i will keep updates and work on keeping the boundaries but also to fight for our marriege even if it's dissagreeing with something. 

She's know showing love and affection and what can i say THANK YOU!!


----------



## Cosmos

> GUESS WHAT . she apologies for the way she was in the 4 fooking years she has never in an adult tone apologies for anything only shift blame. she asked for a cuddles and actualy talked to me about her problems at work and we had a great afternoon, i romanced her this evening and shes now asleep.
> 
> She also asked me what would look nice going out, this is a total change and even said she might not even go out cause she wants to spend time with me.


I think you've done really well and turned this around very quickly. You've shown your W that you love her, your marriage is very important to you and, importantly, you value and respect yourself.

Good for you, OP!


----------



## Entropy3000

They need to know you care. They need to know you love them enough to go through the mess.

Well it is not over, BUT, this is the direction you want.

You have every reason now to open the flood gates and rock her world. Do not wait. Get rocking.


----------



## Cosmos

Entropy3000 said:


> They need to know you care. They need to know you love them enough to go through the mess.
> 
> Well it is not over, BUT, this is the direction you want.
> 
> You have every reason now to open the flood gates and rock her world. Do not wait. Get rocking.


:iagree:


----------



## jfv

She is responding to your strength. Keep an eye on her and don't return to the same patterns. If you do she won't take you seriously in the future.


----------



## Deejo

I think it's great that you have stated your boundaries, are sticking to them ... and have seen some dividends without question.

However ... you aren't nearly out of the woods. 
She is going to continue to push, and press. If you hold the line, firmly, but with compassion if she is seeking you out for support than I wouldn't argue with a thing you are doing.

I reread your posts focusing on what you indicated your wife is saying, and apparently feeling.
Definitely sounds like some self-esteem issues. And sounds like she is desperate for attention ... and was looking for it outside the boundaries of your marriage. I'm not saying your wife was looking to cheat. I'm pointing out what in my opinion is glaring ... she feels like something is missing, within herself, within the marriage ... who knows. 

You may want to try and get her to articulate what she feels like she isn't getting. Listen attentively. But, just like you did above, don't let her blame you for not taking responsibility for her own life.


----------



## hambone

Wiserforit said:


> Yeah, manipulative people are famous for continuing to go around in circles, trying to wear you down. That behavior alone is offensive - the broken record.
> 
> State your boundaries, then stop talking. Don't legitimize their bad behavior by continuing to respond to it.


If you are arguing... you are losing...

You need to draw the line... and tell her the consequences and be willing to carry them out..

Make sure the consequences are ones you can live with.


----------



## Madman1

Wow this was amazing.

I hope you can stay strong and tender. She really needs you to be that man!


----------



## MrK

Lostwithouthope said:


> It was the idea of her single friend which she went along with.
> 
> We are currently going through a rocky patch atm, ...
> 
> I can't control what she wears out im her husband not her parent,





Lostwithouthope said:


> Sex life isn't too bad atm, 1-2 every week, However i do feel that she is bored with me and wants to know if the grass is greener on the other side. She saids she go out alot because she gets bored watching tv ect.





Lostwithouthope said:


> Her response was, fine i'm not going as i dont want to feel like the odd one out as usual.





Lostwithouthope said:


> i dont want to argue about it and i have made my mind up, i'm going out for symons bday instead.
> 
> To open another story a guy who is going to symons bday is gay, but in *she originally had the hots for him, but now she doesn't like him at all. *





Lostwithouthope said:


> She basically said " so you don't trust me" as i always say if someone is going to cheat then they will do it whether i make a big deal or not, however i don't take that [email protected], for most of the time we were food shopping she was trying to cause an arguement but i let it slide by saying "if your trying to cause an arguement good luck" trying all the old tricks in the book.
> 
> She's currently going to the gym at the moment, and her latest reply was "i need to make gym a priority"





Lostwithouthope said:


> i have already told her no to the nightie which she isn't wearing but she still is going out. ...
> 
> I agree there are red flags





Lostwithouthope said:


> now i do get the cheating aspect or shall i say the single because she mentioned that a special dj is there, if you ever watch the programme on tv gordie shore on MUJV she wants to see him and touch him cause "he famous...she wants to be near the booth, so we will class this as a red flag!


MTVUK - Geordie Shore S5 - Get Your Hens Wet. - YouTube



Lostwithouthope said:


> However she threw me a curveball today, she wants me to go out clubbing tomorrow on my own so that she can have a bath, watch sh!t on tv and have an early night, when i said i wasn't she seemed quite upset. TO me this is a definite red flag... something is definately not right here.





Lostwithouthope said:


> ..when i brought her the flowers she said thank you and they are beautiful but her actions show are totally different.
> 
> Like she doesn't want anyone to know about it.





Lostwithouthope said:


> I...then told her " a wife does not go out flaunting a nightie to other men" a wife does not go to the gym with a male co-worker" or make some sleezy comment about seeing someone famous especially gordie shore" atm the moment i do not trust you, *her quick response was well your just have to deal with it*.
> 
> She said fine i wont go the gym i will just be fat and have no life, ill cancel the ann summers.





Lostwithouthope said:


> last response i got from her that she might leave...and i hope your happy that i wont have no life.


Then there was that whole conversation that I'll summarize as "you are not my daddy so I'll do whatever the **** I want to do"

And then, after 4 "fooking years" of her being an immature litle b**ch, we get this.



Lostwithouthope said:


> GUESS WHAT . she apologies for the way she was in the 4 fooking years she has never in an adult tone apologies for anything only shift blame. she asked for a cuddles and actualy talked to me about her problems at work and we had a great afternoon, i romanced her this evening and shes now asleep.
> 
> She also asked me what would look nice going out, this is a total change and even said she might not even go out cause she wants to spend time with me.


And then you all congratulate him for a successful ending. WOW. That turn-around is in the hall of fame of TAM turn-arounds. If you eliminate trolls, it's surely top 10.

It's a good thing I'm not a cynic, because if I were, I would SWEAR that she got some of her own advice. Either from friends or her own internet community. The advice was "It's easier to placate a jealous Neanderthal husband with honey than with vinegar".

She's going to this Ann Summers party. And she's going clubbing afterwards. Maybe with the "I swallow" nightie and maybe not. She'll party with men. She'll get close to Gordie w.h.o.r.e, ...re..um..I mean, SHORE... She'll dance with men. Probably little drunk kisses. It will be a night to remember.

Some of the best minds on this site missed it. Only dumb old MrK saw right through the act. From spoiled, entitled brat to mature wife in a heartbeat. Wow. It's a good thing I'm looking out for you. Nothing changed, dude. She just got smart about it.


----------



## Maricha75

MrK said:


> And then you all congratulate him for a successful ending. WOW. That turn-around is in the hall of fame of TAM turn-arounds. If you eliminate trolls, it's surely top 10.
> 
> It's a good thing I'm not a cynic, because if I were, I would SWEAR that she got some of her own advice. Either from friends or her own internet community. The advice was "It's easier to placate a jealous Neanderthal husband with honey than with vinegar".
> 
> 
> Some of the best minds on this site missed it. Only dumb old MrK saw right through the act. From spoiled, entitled brat to mature wife in a heartbeat. Wow. It's a good thing I'm looking out for you. Nothing changed, dude. She just got smart about it.


Actually, there were a couple people who commented that while it's good to have the response he did from her (finally), he's not out of the woods yet. However, MrK, you were NOT the only one who thought it odd. Tbh, my first thought on the update was that she's buttering him up. Maybe not for this particular outing, but for later on. Optimistic is nice... but stay alert for awhile, very cautious. That was a VERY quick turnaround...and makes me skeptical as well.


----------



## Deejo

If she is trying to placate and manipulate ... and LWH holds his line, it will fail, and she will be in for a very rude awakening.

She is indeed behaving like a child. Right down to the 'daddy' crap.

It isn't about her pulling the wool over his eyes. It's about him handing her rope and seeing if she'll build a bridge with it, or make a noose.

She'll respect the boundary, or she'll face plant on it.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Maricha75 said:


> Actually, there were a couple people who commented that while it's good to have the response he did from her (finally), he's not out of the woods yet. However, MrK, you were NOT the only one who thought it odd. Tbh, my first thought on the update was that she's buttering him up. Maybe not for this particular outing, but for later on. Optimistic is nice... but stay alert for awhile, very cautious. That was a VERY quick turnaround...and makes me skeptical as well.


I didn't say it was a quick turn around, just a step in the right direction, Since i have asserted my boundaries she respects me alot more which is a positive.

She seems alot more open up and also taking lead with future dates, we are planning to go to theme park next Saturday, which we used to do when we first dated.

also may sound silly but she even commented about how tidy the kitchen was, now sometimes we men have tidiness issue's and to get that from a wife/gf is high in their books.

I am still looking into the co-worker ben, she did say that he only texts her to ask what shift she's on. The only thing she said that " he worked 4 shifts in a row" to which i replied "thats because he has nothing to do" this ben is a skinny little runt that just smokes weed when he's not working, doesnt seem to do well with dates or gf, but i will assert boundaries if i find txting going further than it should, but i will update you.

She may possibly invite me out after the ann summer's party, but this will work on the other poster comments, dont just be a husband but her closest friend that she can talk to, i need to be a listener and give good advice, but sometimes let her express her feelings if its about her job, she doesn't want you to fix it just be there for her.

The immaturity is still a big issue atm, but that's because of the age, i need to learn not to react to it but bring her up on it so that she understands that i will not tolerate it.

There is definitely a personality disorder, but this boils down to not getting what i want, her mum is the same so this could explain alot of things.

Our marriage is going in the right direction but i just need to keep an eye on issues that may arise.

next update week today


----------



## Wiserforit

Lostwithouthope said:


> There is definitely a personality disorder... her mum is the same so this could explain alot of things.


The volatility is suggestive of a number of possibilities, but it is definitely disordered.

This is a long way from over. And it isn't her age. Plenty of teens are wonderfully adult, moreso than people ten years older who never had difficult responsibilities in their lives nor lived on their own. 

If she is really disordered then there will be more cunning and subtle experiments in the future. This one needs some counseling for sure.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

I found this link

13 Signs Your Wife or Girlfriend is a Borderline or a Narcissist | A Shrink for Men

This pretty much sums up my wife.

Especially number 5!! one minute she can be really nice and loving, next the devil re-incarnated, you get caught off guard and it's game over pal.

Number 4. Very manipulative loves to twist the arguement or blame and never takes responsibility, this was very noticiable on Saturday.

Number 10. Is a definate yes Eggshells just don't cut it more like a big landmine.

Number 11. Well i was on a pedalstal, one minute i would be a bread and butter, the next i would be her mouldy bread in the bread bin.

There is definately alot of immaturity that comes with it, but her mum hasn't really been there for her to give her the correct guidance, but i also feel that she doesn't know how to deal with a marriage because every previous relationship the bf has cheated so she expect this will happen again, she's not really had a mature adult relationship that consists on mutually agreeing things and working together and im guessing she used to do this to her ex's to get what she wanted. 

I am going to have to read alot about this and get advice, like you guys said we are far from finished, and this is a positive start. However i do feel there are more tests to come on what who knows.


----------



## Nsweet

I told you that you'd like that website. 

Also, know that there are two types of borderlines, those that suffer primarily on the inside and have problem communicating their needs which creates hidden resentments towards you, and then there are the the outward abusive borderlines who can't deal with their own issues so they demonize you and everyone else to escape responsibility. 

I'm telling you this so you won't offend the few BPD people on this site who are far from the types you will read about on Shrink4men. I love Dr. T and am a full supporter of her works helping men with abusive exes, but I am more aware of different types of personality disordered people. They're not all bad, but they do feel things differently (the sense of abandonment and such), so you have to understand this like I told you. 

I can still give you a copy of "Stop Walking on Eggshells" if you want.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I think attempting to armchair psych the woman into a diagnosis online is not the best course of action.If you suspect she has a disorder and isn't just being a very immature 20 something woman,step away from the internet and seek real help.
If she's a narcissist she likely won't change or improve.If she's a borderline there is hope she will become aware of the damage she causes and try to fix it as she gets older.I wouldn't hold your breath on that until she's at least late twenties or older.


----------



## Lostwithouthope

Nsweet said:


> I told you that you'd like that website.
> 
> Also, know that there are two types of borderlines, those that suffer primarily on the inside and have problem communicating their needs which creates hidden resentments towards you, and then there are the the outward abusive borderlines who can't deal with their own issues so they demonize you and everyone else to escape responsibility.
> 
> I'm telling you this so you won't offend the few BPD people on this site who are far from the types you will read about on Shrink4men. I love Dr. T and am a full supporter of her works helping men with abusive exes, but I am more aware of different types of personality disordered people. They're not all bad, but they do feel things differently (the sense of abandonment and such), so you have to understand this like I told you.
> 
> I can still give you a copy of "Stop Walking on Eggshells" if you want.


Yes please that would be great.

In the meantime I am also going to work on myself "no more mr nice guy"

in your first paragraph summerize's my wife she both has hidden resentment but also passes blame which is very frustrating. Where as me if i done something wrong i will admit it. 

Thanks all.

Maybe i am not so lost after all


----------



## mablenc

Lostwithouthope said:


> GUESS WHAT . she apologies for the way she was in the 4 fooking years she has never in an adult tone apologies for anything only shift blame. she asked for a cuddles and actualy talked to me about her problems at work and we had a great afternoon, i romanced her this evening and shes now asleep.
> 
> She also asked me what would look nice going out, this is a total change and even said she might not even go out cause she wants to spend time with me.
> 
> Thank you all, i will keep updates and work on keeping the boundaries but also to fight for our marriege even if it's dissagreeing with something.
> 
> She's know showing love and affection and what can i say THANK YOU!!


you did well until here, then dropped it, see she found the way to get you to fold, now I see she manipulates you with sex too which is why you don't have it as often. She tried all cards until you gave in to being nice, remember I told you this with the flowers.

It makes me sad how you say she may stay or invite you to go clubbing. You are like the unpopular girl waiting to be asked to the dance.
Step back and see you haven't made much progress, she's still going to go through with her plans the only difference is that you got suckered into being ok with it and she has you eating out of the palm of her hand.

Sorry for to burst your bubble


----------



## Nsweet

Lostwithouthope said:


> Yes please that would be great.
> 
> In the meantime I am also going to work on myself "no more mr nice guy"
> 
> in your first paragraph summerize's my wife she both has hidden resentment but also passes blame which is very frustrating. Where as me if i done something wrong i will admit it.
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Maybe i am not so lost after all


Great!

PM me your email address. 

I'll give you "Sotp Walking On eggshells", "Disarming The Narcissist"- audio book, and I'll do you one better that "No More Mr. Nice Guy", in fact I can get you three books than blow NMMNG out of the water.


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## dusty4

I've never met anyone that goes clubbing that can be trusted. If in a committed relationship, why the need to go to a meat market?

Now I understand that this may be a one time thing(or is it?). But the fact remains, there is a reason to go clubbing and bar hopping. And it isn't to chat about the weather.



> She also asked me what would look nice going out, this is a total change and even said she might not even go out cause she wants to spend time with me.


Well don't be too fooled by this. Could be she is calling your bluff, trying to soften you up so you say, "No honey, I don't want you to do that. You go ahead and have a great time"

Also my apologies. I realize I'm coming into this thread late, but I have a strong feeling on the subject.


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## Nsweet

To be honest, this thread just reminds me of Eternal Sunshine Of the Spotless Mind, and that's not a good thing.


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## dusty4

Thats up to your husband and his experiences. If he trusts you and his experiences with you and clubbing are fine, then its all good.

My experiences tell me otherwise. Its about the odds of finding someone trustworthy that go clubbing. Obviously there is something to this otherwise OP wouldn't have strong feelings about its.

In your case, you just defied the odds. Kudos.


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## Wiserforit

The randomness to their treatment of you (walking on eggshells) is actually a very effective tactic for keeping you in a constant weakened state. Easier to manipulate.

In the moments when they are treating you normally, it seems like a godsend - just so wonderful not to have a screaming banshee stabbing your eyes out with an ice pick. 

Except those moments of normalcy are what decent marriages have 99% of the time. The narcissist doles out just enough of them to keep you tricked into staying with them. There is no need for one tiny morsel beyond the minimum required to keep you.


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## Lostwithouthope

Hey Ladies & Gents 

The weekend has come, and no she's not having the ann summers or the tacky nightie out. 

Last update she has been going to the gym with a girl mate, so all is well on that front, the Ben guy i still have issue's with theres an app called snap chat where people can send images/videos which last upto 3-10 secs and he has send random videos 1 of a mans back head in a car and one video of matilda the movie wtf??? she claims hes like that - Red Flag 

He's actually been suspended from her work and she was going to invite him around for a cup of tea to find out why, so there is definately something not right. Wierd enough she normally doesn't straighten her hair for work or make any kind of effort but last night she did?? 

I am not going to lie but i am alittle worried about her going out, she's been discussion whats shes going to wear, how she's curling her hair. 

From experience it seems she's after validation to get noticed by other guys this is normally due to low self esteem, she enjoy's getting attention from other guys.

Now i can't stop her from going out, as that would push her further away but i could set boundaries and also how to approach the situation? the wierd thing about it she's been extra nice loving ect, is this buttering up so i keep quiet?


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## MrK

Please, please, please...

PLEASE spy on her when she goes out and report back.

Please.


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## Shaggy

She could just text him and ask why he's suspended, she doesn't need to meet up with him.


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## Lostwithouthope

MrK said:


> Please, please, please...
> 
> PLEASE spy on her when she goes out and report back.
> 
> Please.


 ill try to guys today he sent a pic of pint glass saying yummy scrummy when I asked her if she sent pics she said no but I see BS, I asked her how he sending pics then cause shes friends with him pfft. It is diff to see her phone as she never leave it for 5 mins.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostwithouthope

Update

Well she went out, I kept the txt to a minimum and was in bed by 1am, she did try and wake me but i was asleep, i did notice that she changed her facebook profile pic to the gordie shore guy and her, from her original pic with her daughter.

Now i'm 30 so i'm not gonna act all immature about her changing it, but it's kinda giving people the wrong impression that's she's with him or doesn't value our family i.e. our daughter very much. Why would you change a pic to some fake dude from your own daughter which means alot more.

The more i see into this the more i see that a)She doesn't value our Marriage/Family very highly or b)trying to make me jealous of some dude who has no body hair who looks 12.

I'm not going to even ask about last night as that would seem insecure.

Opinions ?


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## Nsweet

Dude, what advice do you want at this point? Your wife is doing all, I mean *ALL* of the stereotypical cheater's bullsh!t. And at this point I have to ask why are you still putting up with her? Screw gathering evidence, you could go off of a hunch right now and be 80% right that she's cheating... and after talking to you a bit I thought you were going for a divorce. 

My question to you at this point is how much longer can you go on? Your wife doesn't give you any reassurance she's to be trusted, she lies to you constantly, and she's just turned into someone you can't stand to have in your life. So what is it that's keeping you with her? Is it age? Because a 30yo man can divorce a bad wife and find himself a good woman fast. So is it childhood issues or codependency? Take your pick.


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## hookares

Guys, if you are comfortable with your wife going clubbing without you, you don't mind sharing her with every swinging d!ck out there.
Doesn't mean she is,but if she is free to do as she pleases, then what's to stop her?


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## Suspecting

hookares said:


> Guys, if you are comfortable with your wife going clubbing without you, you don't mind sharing her with every swinging d!ck out there.
> Doesn't mean she is,but if she is free to do as she pleases, then what's to stop her?


Not saying I'm comfortable with clubbing without your spouse but if she has high moral character and ethics she will know what not to do.


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## MrK

Lostwithouthope said:


> Update
> 
> Well she went out...
> 
> I'm not going to even ask about last night as that would seem insecure.


And let me guess:

She didn't volunteer anything either. right? You went to bed at 1:00. What time was she home?

And yes, you ask her about her night out. Where did she go? What did she do? Make it sound as though you are interested. Don't make it an interogation. Her reaction and response will tell you everything. So you either seem insecure, or OK with her partying with strange men and alcohol. Your choice.

FYI: Many years ago, I made the same choice you did and paid for it. DEARLY. The much older, wiser MrK cannot BELIEVE that younger MrK just let his wife pull that crap with ZERO questions asked. It seems BIZARRE to me today that we didn't talk about it.

SPY ON HER NEXT TIME. 

I don't understand you.


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## MrK

Suspecting said:


> but if she has high moral character and ethics...


Let me make a guess here as well: You didn't read his entire thread, right?


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## Suspecting

MrK said:


> Let me make a guess here as well: You didn't read his entire thread, right?


You didn't read my post either it seems. Wasn't talking about the OP's wife but replied to hookares' post.


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## Entropy3000

Suspecting said:


> Not saying I'm comfortable with clubbing without your spouse but if she has high moral character and ethics she will know what not to do.


Someone with high moral character would not put themselves at risk. Sorry folks having high moral character does little to help in the game of playing just the tip. But it comes down to priorities. people with high moral character just have a need to justify their activities. They are the ones that will rationalize the most because they have to. 

My point? That depending on character to save you from poor boundairs is a total FAIL.


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## Suspecting

Entropy3000 said:


> Someone with high moral character would not put themselves at risk. Sorry folks having high moral character does little to help in the game of playing just the tip. But it comes down to priorities. people with high moral character just have a need to justify their activities. They are the ones that will rationalize the most because they have to.
> 
> My point? That depending on character to save you from poor boundairs is a total FAIL.


That's your opinion. What is the risk exactly?


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## Entropy3000

Suspecting said:


> That's your opinion. What is the risk exactly?


I posted it so you can be very sure it is indeed my opinion. Welcome to the internet. Oh and there is risk on the internet too.
If you have to ask then you should not be doing this. Any mature adult can see all sorts of risks. If you cannot see the risks then this is the biggest flag.

How very naive. Playing single is risky.

But you know what? If a persons marriage is not important to them there is no risk.

And it does have to do what level of openess one has selected. Some couples are ok with sexual situations and even dating others as long as there is no PIV sex.

But try on disrespect for one. There may not seem to be risks because one feels they can shoot from the hip and make moral decisions at run time. EVERY marriage has challenges. When your marriage gets challenged then all of a sudden people wonder why was she clubbing all the time? What was she really doing? Even if it was totally innocent.

But hey, what are your boundaries?

I could claim I could have mistresses on the side and say there is no risk to my marriage because I have moral character to not let it damage my marriage.

Here is a list of risks in life that also happen to be fantasies.



> 13. Sex with partner's best friend
> 12. Sex in front of camera
> 11. Anal sex
> 10. Sex with ex
> 9. Forced sex
> 8. Sex with other people
> 7. Sex with a co-worker or (school) study pal
> 6. Sex with two people (FFM)
> 5. Sex with a stranger
> 4. Sex with two men
> 3. Sex with a woman
> 2. Sex in public place
> 1. Dominative sex aka S&M roleplay


Yes these are just a list of fantasies you posted. But indeed factor in a person in a club with all the trimmings, is at risk to some extent in taking their fantasy to reality. It happens ... even with people who think they have moral character. I grabbed these only because the list of risks are too numerous to list.

The biggest risk you will not see coming.


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## Suspecting

There will be no sexual situations in bars or clubs if the person doesn't want to be in one AKA decent moral character and ethics. I changed "high" to "decent" because I think to avoid cheating it doesn't need high moral character. So again, what is the risk?

Btw. I have never cheated on my girlfriends when in bars or clubs and I don't consider myself having high morals.


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## chillymorn

Suspecting said:


> There will be no sexual situations in bars or clubs if the person doesn't want to be in one AKA decent moral character and ethics. I changed "high" to "decent" because I think to avoid cheating it doesn't need high moral character. So again, what is the risk?
> 
> Btw. I have never cheated on my girlfriends when in bars or clubs and I don't consider myself having high morals.


? are you saying dressing in a nighty with sexy underwear on under it and make up all done up with a sign in the front that say I'm horny mixed with booze and single men who would bang a hole in a tree on the way home from drinking and getting rejected is not risky?

that high/decent morels would help? or even prevent it or anything from ever happening. 


:lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## Suspecting

chillymorn said:


> ? are you saying dressing in a nighty with sexy underwear on under it and make up all done up with a sign in the front that say I'm horny mixed with booze and single men who would bang a hole in a tree on the way home from drinking and getting rejected is not risky?
> 
> that high/decent morels would help? or even prevent it or anything from ever happening.
> 
> 
> :lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


We are not talking about the OP's situation... please read our discussion again. And what's with the emoticon spam?


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