# My story



## Stang197

I was encouraged to tell my story by fellow members on this site so here it is. In May of 2014 I started to get a feeling that something was wrong with my marriage. For whatever reason (still not sure what possessed me to do this) I went over our cell phone records. I found out that there were 150 texts between my wife and the father of my daughters friend. I completely lost it. I didn't get any guidance from sites like this. I confronted immediately. 
While going through her phone I accidentally but dialed the POSOM. He texted right back and asked if she but dialed. I texted back " ya sorry". He replied "darn". Nothing she could tell me explained that. As far as I was concerned that was the smoking gun. Case closed. She denied any wrong doing. 
While getting ready for work I decided to comb over the records again. I noticed 2 picture messages that were sent to me and one minute later to him. I know what pics she sent me. They were or her exposing herself in her underwear. Showing her breasts and her vagina. 
I woke her up and asked her what pics she sent him. Of course she denied everything but admitted to having a crush on him. Ya right. I told her I was divorcing her and was going ruin everything of hers. II then went to work. I came home early and found out she had moved out with the kids, took all the money out of our bank account, and wouldn't answer my phonecalls. 
She came home later that evening to talk. She said I scared her and that is why she left. She still denied everything. I installed Spyware on her phone and keyloggers on the 2 computers. We got along OK for the rest of the week. That weekend I told her that I did not believe her and to tell me the truth. She confessed to sleeping with him. 
I took about a month to get all of the details. I exposed this to my family. Made her expose herself to her family. I told the OM wife. I started a text app and acted like I was my wife to the OM. 
I was able to recover some emails through him. Her story seemed to be backed up by his wife and the emails. 
I think she has been remorseful from DDAY but who knows. I was distraught and threatened suicide. She called the police and I was put on suicide watch for 2 days. Could not work for over a week. Typical things that everyone seems to go through when your life falls apart like weight loss, nightmares, ect. The cops that arrested me and the nurses at the facility that I was stuck in all told me to ditch her. 
She was crying day in and day out for what seems like forever. Wrote the no contact letter. Changed her phone number. Cancelled her email addresses. Begged for forgiveness. 
I told her that if she wanted me that bad she was going to have to watch me have sex with another woman. 
I hired an escort and did the deed in front of her. 
She said she felt like we could put this behind us finally. This was about 2 months after discovery. We where in marriage counseling from that point on. I started going to the gym regularly. I got in really decent shape and was listening to motivational speakers. We started going to church. But I was still depressed. 
I put up a profile on a dating site and proceeded to talk to countless people. 2 of these turned into EAs. At one point I almost left my wife for one of these girls. My wife was extremely upset and told my daughter. I stayed. She has been in contact with the other woman. This woman claims to be pregnant with my child. I never slept with her but my wife believes her. Not sure why she says she is pregnant but I think she is trying to break up my marriage. My wife says she will help raise the kid. Haven't heard from this woman in a couple of weeks. 
Since then things have calmed down. Not sure what is going to be the result of all this but this is where I am at. I know my wife has had a hard time dealing with everything. I still have not committed to staying with her


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## JohnA

So after the pain her affair caused you, you turn around and do it to her, first with a ***** then turned around and had two EAs on line. One of your.EA is now taunting your wife by claiming to be carrying your bastard. 

You really showed your DAUGHTER didn't you stang and now your wife knows you have no problem finding and screwing prostitutes.

Yep, perfectly normal, perfectly healthy, perfectly sane. 

Empathy is at the core of love, do you realize yet what you have done?


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## Stang197

JohnA said:


> So after the pain her affair caused you, you turn around and do it to her, first with a ***** then turned around and had two EAs on line. One of your.EA is now taunting your wife by claiming to be carrying your bastard.
> 
> You really showed your DAUGHTER didn't you stang and now your wife knows you have no problem finding and screwing prostitutes.
> 
> Yep, perfectly normal, perfectly healthy, perfectly sane.
> 
> Empathy is at the core of love, do you realize yet what you have done?


Well I guess if empathy is the core of love she doesn't love me either. I vowed to be faithful to her. I never promised I would play fair if she cheated on me.


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## JohnA

20 years ago Dr Drew actual had a good radio show. He claimed that women who became prosititutes always had one or two same experience, usually both. They were childhood sexual abuse victims and or lacked a strong father figure in their life. The good news is most who come from this background do not go down this path. 

You are busy creating one condition by blowing up your marriage, and do not say she started it. By creating a father vacuum you are creating an idea breeding ground for the second.


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## JohnA

Stang197 said:


> Well I guess if empathy is the core of love she doesn't love me either. I vowed to be faithful to her. I never promised I would play fair if she cheated on me.


And your daughter?


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## Stang197

JohnA said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess if empathy is the core of love she doesn't love me either. I vowed to be faithful to her. I never promised I would play fair if she cheated on me.
> 
> 
> 
> And your daughter?
Click to expand...

I would agree that my daughter is the true victim in all of this


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## ThePheonix

Stang my man, you know you knocked that other girl up. Why don't you just come out and say it. You're giving us the "trickle truth" Dawg. And why is your daughter privy to all this?


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## Marc878

Whoa!!!!!

You all need some good solid counciling like yesterday!!

You should have kept your head through all this. 

You have a huge responsibility to your daughter.
You need to sit her down and some how apologize for your actions. What you're wife did was bad enough but there should have been one parent left to turn to which was you. 

Get some help quickly you can't do this in the state you're in.


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## LonelyinLove

Well, you had me until your story about forcing your wife to watch you and an escort.

You know the "two wrongs don't make a right" thing, right?


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## GusPolinski

Might seem like an odd question, but what was it that you installed on your wife's phone?


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## Stang197

ThePheonix said:


> Stang my man, you know you knocked that other girl up. Why don't you just come out and say it. You're giving us the "trickle truth" Dawg. And why is your daughter privy to all this?


My wife told her when I was getting ready to move out. That really woke me up. I didn't knock her up. I think this woman got a little too excited. Her and my wife had some really nasty exchanges and that's when she started saying those things. I think she was trying to hurt my wife.


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## Stang197

GusPolinski said:


> Might seem like an odd question, but what was it that you installed on your wife's phone?


I don't recall which app it was exactly but it was like Mspy or similar programs. Cost about 100 bucks for 3 months. It would send texts, calls, GPS locations, contacts, emails, and all installed apps to website that I would log into and check. I could also remotely block calls or even lock the phone. I only used it for GPS and texts. It would actually show the whole message. The app was not visible to the user but my wife started complaining that her battery would die sooner and the phone got slower. Way worth the money. Although I installed after the initial confrontation so I never caught her doing anything wrong. We know use life 360 on all of our phones. Nice free app. Works good.


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## Stang197

GusPolinski said:


> Might seem like an odd question, but what was it that you installed on your wife's phone?


just came to me.. It was called topspy. Went out of business about 6 months ago.


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## happy as a clam

Stang197 said:


> I told her that if she wanted me that bad she was going to have to watch me have sex with another woman.
> I hired an escort and did the deed in front of her.


Never heard of this "solution" before, but in a weird way I kind of like it. If more WS's had to endure this punishment they might think twice about cheating.

Bizarre...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

happy as a clam said:


> Never heard of this "solution" before, but in a weird way I kind of like it. If more WS's had to endure this punishment they might think twice about cheating.
> 
> Bizarre...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Happy I never thought about it but you may be onto something.

Probably more effective on a WH I suspect. Can you imagine!!!!!


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## Marc878

Stang

What was the wife's reaction to the escort show?


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## Stang197

Stang197 said:


> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> 
> Might seem like an odd question, but what was it that you installed on your wife's phone?
> 
> 
> 
> just came to me.. It was called topspy. Went out of business about 6 months ago.
Click to expand...




Marc878 said:


> Stang
> 
> What was the wife's reaction to the escort show?


She went willingly and watched. She tried to make the best out of it but I think she was uncomfortable. Afterwards she said she was relieved that it happened and hoped that I could forgive her and move forward.


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## Decorum

Stang197 said:


> Afterwards she said she was relieved that it happened and hoped that I could forgive her and move forward.


You descended to her level and you removed a big portion of her guilt.

Guilt eats away at a truly remorseful cheating spouse like a cancer.
Its is a very hard thing to watch, and it goes on long term.

Now she does not have to be fully remorseful and her guilt burden has been lightened.

Why do you sabotage the very processes that could produce remorse and reconciliation?

You outsmarted yourself.


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## aine

I told her that if she wanted me that bad she was going to have to watch me have sex with another woman. 
I hired an escort and did the deed in front of her

I stopped reading at this sentence. I felt for you and your pain but what you did was the lowest of the low. Your desire for revenge and your vindictiveness has no place in a marriage, even a broken one, you have completely crossed the line and I hope your wife would will see you for who you really are a vengeful, hateful person and go. You should not be together, because the reality is, you will never get past your hatred. What your wife did to you was bad, but your response was much worse. If that is the hateful character you have, I am not surprised she is looking towards another man. If she has any sense she would ditch your ass, how long are you going to hang over her head what she did? I guess she needs to go out and even the score by having 2 emotional affairs. You are one screwed up man and need serious counselling. This is taking revenge to a whole new level, making your wife watch is sick! Sounds like your marriage is beyond repair with this level of toxicity, please do each other a favour and get a divorce.


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## Stang197

Decorum said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Afterwards she said she was relieved that it happened and hoped that I could forgive her and move forward.
> 
> 
> 
> You descended to her level and you removed a big portion of her guilt.
> 
> Guilt eats away at a truly remorseful cheating spouse like a cancer.
> Its is a very hard thing to watch, and it goes on long term.
> 
> Now she does not have to be fully remorseful and her guilt burden has been lightened.
> 
> Why do you sabotage the very processes that could produce remorse and reconciliation?
> 
> You outsmarted yourself.
Click to expand...

Well if that's the case then I guess it wasn't that rotten to do to her. She should be happy.


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## Bibi1031

Stang you're nuts!

I'm with the poster that said two wrongs don't make a right indeed.

You have sunk low man, very low...as in bottom dweller


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## Stang197

aine said:


> I told her that if she wanted me that bad she was going to have to watch me have sex with another woman.
> I hired an escort and did the deed in front of her
> 
> I stopped reading at this sentence. I felt for you and your pain but what you did was the lowest of the low. Your desire for revenge and your vindictiveness has no place in a marriage, even a broken one, you have completely crossed the line and I hope your wife would will see you for who you really are a vengeful, hateful person and go. You should not be together, because the reality is, you will never get past your hatred. What your wife did to you was bad, but your response was much worse. If that is the hateful character you have, I am not surprised she is looking towards another man. If she has any sense she would ditch your ass, how long are you going to hang over her head what she did? I guess she needs to go out and even the score by having 2 emotional affairs. You are one screwed up man and need serious counselling. This is taking revenge to a whole new level, making your wife watch is sick!


That's your opinion. I think what she did originally was rooted in hatred and just as sick. That's my opinion. Oh I have tried counseling. There is nothing anyone can tell you or reframe that takes away the monumental pain of having the mother of your children and best friend stab you in the back. At least she knows exactly what went down. I am stuck wondering if I got the truth.


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## Stang197

Bibi1031 said:


> Stang you're nuts!
> 
> I'm with the poster that said two wrongs don't make a right indeed.
> 
> You have sunk low man, very low...as in bottom dweller


It seems to me that the people that do all the right things on these stories get the shaft. Sorry you feel that I am a bottom dweller. I am just a normal guy that was seriously hurting. Hurt people hurt people. I think I would be a bottom dweller if I dwelled at the bottom. I am pulling myself up little by little every day.


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## happy as a clam

Bibi1031 said:


> Stang you're nuts!
> 
> I'm with the poster that said two wrongs don't make a right indeed.
> 
> *You have sunk low man, very low...*as in bottom dweller


I'm not so sure...

I think Stang put it "right back in her face" (literally)... Humiliated and degraded her by making her watch.

I kind of like his approach. In a weird, inexplicable way.

As long as he doesn't feel he humiliated and degraded himself....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bibi1031

happy as a clam said:


> As long as he doesn't feel he humiliated and degraded himself....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



...oh but sadly he did.


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## Stang197

Bibi1031 said:


> happy as a clam said:
> 
> 
> 
> As long as he doesn't feel he humiliated and degraded himself....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...oh but sadly he did.
Click to expand...

To whom?


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## Bibi1031

Stang197 said:


> To whom?


To most outsiders looking in at your story and your choices.


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## happy as a clam

Bibi1031 said:


> ...oh but sadly he did.


Maybe not...

I can't think of ANYTHING that would hurt my partner worse than MAKING him watch some other dude f*ck me. 

Like they say... "All is fair in Love and War."..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bibi1031

happy as a clam said:


> Like they say... "All is fair in Love and War."..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



War yes, but there is no love in this bottom dwelling Crapola!

His wife was a selfish idiot, but he digressed and fell low for someone that didn't deserve him sinking to the bottom.


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## gouge_away

Stang197 said:


> Hurt people hurt people.


How was Church btw?
Did you find forgiveness in vindication?

Read: In The Grip Of Grace, by Max Lucado


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## OldWolf57

not buying aaaaany of it.

can we say feedbak on possible scripts for nxt bk


Oh,, and mod, my online life is fkin NOT here!!!!!


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## OldWolf57

TRY WoT !!!!!!
Handle the same !!


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## The Middleman

happy as a clam said:


> Never heard of this "solution" before, but in a weird way I kind of like it. If more WS's had to endure this punishment they might think twice about cheating.
> 
> Bizarre...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure if you response is sarcasm or not, but if Stang's story is true, he did something most don't have the balls to pull off. I give him credit.


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## happy as a clam

The Middleman said:


> I'm not sure if you response is sarcasm or not, but if Stang's story is true, he did something most don't have the balls to pull off. I give him credit.


No sarcasm at all. I meant it in all sincerity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

happy as a clam said:


> No sarcasm at all. I meant it in all sincerity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Taking Stang's story at face value, he took back the power (so to speak) in his marriage and rubbed his wife's nose in her own feces. She got to feel what it's like when it happens to you. Something too many other BSs won't do for what ever inexplicable reason. His wife didn't have to take it and she could have left if she wanted to ... but she stayed. Maybe, just maybe, she is remorseful. 

I can't understand the negative reaction to what he did. The nice guy, high road approach really doesn't work. I just don't see how any who didn't at least try to level the playing field after the affair can go through life without being bitter. You see it here all the time. Especially those who reconciled.

Sorry if this triggered anyone, but that's how I see it.


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## Truthseeker1

The Middleman said:


> Taking Stang's story at face value, he took back the power (so to speak) in his marriage and rubbed his wife's nose in her own feces. She got to feel what it's like when it happens to you. Something too many other BSs won't do for what ever inexplicable reason. His wife didn't have to take it and she could have left if she wanted to ... but she stayed. Maybe, just maybe, she is remorseful.
> 
> I can't understand the negative reaction to what he did. The nice guy, high road approach really doesn't work. I just don't see how any who didn't at least try to level the playing field after the affair can go through life without being bitter. You see it here all the time. Especially those who reconciled.
> 
> Sorry if this triggered anyone, but that's how I see it.


The making her watch part was over the top cruel (SMH)...but an RA - eh the BS needs to do what they need to do to heal......I don't look it as sinking to their level as much as counterpunching after you have been hit...Although an RA would probably be more effective if timed some ways out from dday so as to return the sucker punch otherwise it could backfire and just alleviate the Wss guilt. That is why RAs are not the oly form of revenge on a cheater and in some cases don't work.


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## happy as a clam

Truthseeker1 said:


> The making her watch part was over the top cruel (SMH)...


Well, I am a bit perplexed at my own reaction (mostly surprised that I haven't thought of this myself before now). Yes, it's cruel... but perhaps this is exactly what WS's need to feel.


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## Truthseeker1

happy as a clam said:


> Well, I am a bit perplexed at my own reaction (mostly surprised that I haven't thought of this myself before now). Yes, it's cruel... but perhaps this is exactly what WS's need to feel.


The thing about affairs in general and why they hurt is they are a sucker punch to the loyal spouse and the AP is a perceived threat to the marriage and the devastate the BS self-worth. Hiring an escort and making a spouse watch - is horribly cruel but it also does not accomplish what the original A did. There was no return sucker punch nor was the escort ever a threat to the marriage or the wife's self-esteem. Had the OP had a physical affair with one of his EA partners - that would have shocked his wife more and made her understand what it was she had done to him. She wouldn't need to see it - the mind movies would have been bad enough IMO. I do not judge people who have RAs - I understand why they do - but they do not always work and in fact can backfire if it relieves the original cheaters guilt.


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## gouge_away

The Middleman said:


> Taking Stang's story at face value, he took back the power (so to speak) in his marriage and rubbed his wife's nose in her own feces. She got to feel what it's like when it happens to you. Something too many other BSs won't do for what ever inexplicable reason. His wife didn't have to take it and she could have left if she wanted to ... but she stayed. Maybe, just maybe, she is remorseful.
> 
> I can't understand the negative reaction to what he did. The nice guy, high road approach really doesn't work. I just don't see how any who didn't at least try to level the playing field after the affair can go through life without being bitter. You see it here all the time. Especially those who reconciled.
> 
> Sorry if this triggered anyone, but that's how I see it.


I'm from the camp "fling a wh0re in front of your wife is never a good idea." It was just an old family montra.


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## aine

happy as a clam said:


> Well, I am a bit perplexed at my own reaction (mostly surprised that I haven't thought of this myself before now). Yes, it's cruel... but perhaps this is exactly what WS's need to feel.


Yes, I can understand the anger and the rage but to do exactly the same thing, even more times and to a worse degree (with a prostitute) then he doesn't have a leg to stand on. That marriage is broken, done, finite, if that was the OP's original aim, then he succeeded, his wife will never get over that one and will probably repay him ten fold later.


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## Be smart

If this story is true then I feel sorry for you kids.
Your wife does not love you and you dont love her.

She cheated on you,then lied about it.
After that she watched you having sex with other person.

SICK.

Soory for your kids because they will grow up in bad marriage


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## GusPolinski

Stang197 said:


> just came to me.. It was called topspy. Went out of business about 6 months ago.



What kind of phone was she using?

Is she still using the same phone now? If not, what is she using now?


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## brooklynAnn

Revenge sex and EAs never work. It only does more damage and prevents you from moving forward in the marriage. Now Stang and his wife are at a worst place since, his wife cheated. He took away and voided his right to demand that she be remorseful. He took away her guilt. 

Telling the D was a crappy move by the wife, because she wanted to have some control over Stang. The kids never ever need to know the inner turmoils of their parents marriage. You should never burden your kids this way. They end up distrusting, disrespecting and not caring for you. That being said, it does not mean that the D is going to end up being messed up as her parents. Maybe, she would take the opposite route. Who knows but what we do know, by involving her in their fight, she is changed.

I think this marriage is too badly damaged to survive in the long term. They should just go their separate way. Give each other the ability to find peace and love elsewhere.


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## gouge_away

Might as well open that marriage up, honesty, integrity, honor, and forgiveness are long gone, YOU WILL NEVER GET THEM BACK.

Stang, there is nothing left of your marriage to fight for anybody involved.
Its a total disgrace.


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## Truthseeker1

brooklynAnn said:


> *Revenge sex and EAs never work*. It only does more damage and prevents you from moving forward in the marriage. Now Stang and his wife are at a worst place since, his wife cheated. He took away and voided his right to demand that she be remorseful. He took away her guilt.
> 
> Telling the D was a crappy move by the wife, because she wanted to have some control over Stang. The kids never ever need to know the inner turmoils of their parents marriage. You should never burden your kids this way. They end up distrusting, disrespecting and not caring for you. That being said, it does not mean that the D is going to end up being messed up as her parents. Maybe, she would take the opposite route. Who knows but what we do know, by involving her in their fight, she is changed.
> 
> I think this marriage is too badly damaged to survive in the long term. They should just go their separate way. Give each other the ability to find peace and love elsewhere.


Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. I also think that if properly planned they can work and give the cheater a dose of their own medicine. However you are right a RA can backfire and take away the cheaters guilt. Sometime revenge is more effective in other forms - an affair does not always work. I have no sympathy though for a cheater who gets cheated on.

BTW i love your screenname - that is where I grew up!


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## Stang197

OldWolf57 said:


> not buying aaaaany of it.
> 
> can we say feedbak on possible scripts for nxt bk
> 
> 
> Oh,, and mod, my online life is fkin NOT here!!!!!


I think sounds over the top I guess but true story. My wife is going to post her side of the story.... Someday.


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## Stang197

GusPolinski said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> just came to me.. It was called topspy. Went out of business about 6 months ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of phone was she using?
> 
> Is she still using the same phone now? If not, what is she using now?
Click to expand...

She was using an S3, now she has a lg g2


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## brooklynAnn

So whats happening? Where are you guys now? Are you still in MC? Do you think you are going to work it out?


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## Stang197

gouge_away said:


> Might as well open that marriage up, honesty, integrity, honor, and forgiveness are long gone, YOU WILL NEVER GET THEM BACK.
> 
> Stang, there is nothing left of your marriage to fight for anybody involved.
> Its a total disgrace.


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## Stang197

Maybe it won't work work... Who knows. We both agree if there is any more crap we are going to throw in the towel.


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## Average Joe

Why did she cheat on you?


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## Stang197

brooklynAnn said:


> So whats happening? Where are you guys now? Are you still in MC? Do you think you are going to work it out?


Our marriage counselor stopped seeing me when this came to light. I stopped acting like this and did start trying again. Counselor said she will start seeing us as a couple if I keep it up for a while. Me and my wife seem to be doing better. I don't know if she has properly explored her feelings on this whole issue. Right now she wants commitment.


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## GusPolinski

The Middleman said:


> I'm not sure if you response is sarcasm or not, but if Stang's story is true, he did something most don't have the balls to pull off. I give him credit.


Do you _honestly_ believe that the ONLY thing that would keep most BHs from seriously considering -- to say nothing of actually attempting -- something as ludicrous as what's been presented here is a lack of "balls"?


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## Stang197

Average Joe said:


> Why did she cheat on you?


Typical cheating wife story. Guy praised constantly. We had a new baby with special needs. We were fighting a lot. To much drinking. Poor boundaries. She has Foo issues including a cheating mother. Her dad never imposed consequences for her bad decisions growing up. Ect.


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## ReformedHubby

happy as a clam said:


> Never heard of this "solution" before, but in a weird way I kind of like it. If more WS's had to endure this punishment they might think twice about cheating.
> 
> Bizarre...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have heard of it, and I know more than one man that has taken this approach. They didn't use escorts though. They used it as leverage to open their marriages to threesomes with other women. With that said though, of the guys I know that did this. They were already cheaters themselves, thats why for them it was their "logical" way to address their wife's infidelity. Waywards are just different I guess....

To the OP, you seem impressed with yourself for quickly picking up a few people to hook up with. In this day and age that is nothing to boast about. Hooking up with some strange is easy. You'll eventually tire of it, and when you do its an empty feeling. It takes a real man to do the right thing by his family. Stop the cheating now before it gets out of hand. Trust me, I am living it, it will eat away at your soul.


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## badmemory

I understand the devastation of being cheated on; and I made my fair share of mistakes afterwards. I also know that's it's important that WS's receive consequences. All too often we see BS's here, that are afraid to give those consequences. 

But OP, you are on the opposite end of that spectrum. You made some very bad decisions that will negatively effect your marriage and how your wife perceives you from now on.

By not being able to control your emotions, you gave up the high road. And by doing so, you took away the motivation for your wife to feel remorse; and I think, increase the likelihood that she will cheat again, leave you, or both.


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## Bananapeel

Stang, the point of taking the high road is because as a parent you are supposed to live your life as a model for your kids. Kids pick up on a lot more than you realize (or could become exposed to the truth later in life). Do you want them to know you as an honorable man that makes good decisions for their family or someone that thinks it's OK to hurt people that hurt him first? I think you made a very poor choice and hope you can figure out a better path in life.


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## JohnA

Good morning stang,

It seems you head is in a better place. On this board the "fog" of the WS is a topic often discussed. I think the BS aslo goes into a "fog". This does not excuse what was done, but instead provide a framework. Done is done at this point. From the moment I wake up till the early evening I strive to see myself from 50k and judge myself and my actions harshly. But at the end of the day I try to be gentle with myself. Not excussing or miminizing but examining myself with kindness and developing goals for the next day and avhiveing perception.


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## StilltheStudent

I have to agree with the bulk of the commentary.

The one tried and true method of getting to reconciliation in these cases seems to be to force the cheating spouse to face the consequences of their actions and use their guilt both as a measure of a potential future (no guilt, no future, guilt at the outcome but not at the action? No remorse. Etc) and as a means to force them to change.

By getting your revenge you leveled the playing field.

There was nothing for her to be guilty about anymore, you were even in that moment.

By engaging in multiple affairs post-revenge you sent it in the other direction.

Your marriage is over and you are actively damaging your daughter through these actions.

Divorce already and invest in some serious individual counseling man.


----------



## Truthseeker1

badmemory said:


> I understand the devastation of being cheated on; and I made my fair share of mistakes afterwards. I also know that's it's important that WS's receive consequences. All too often we see BS's here, that are afraid to give those consequences.
> 
> But OP, you are on the opposite end of that spectrum. You made some very bad decisions that will negatively effect your marriage and *how your wife perceives you from now on.*
> 
> By not being able to control your emotions, you gave up the high road. And by doing so, you took away the motivation for your wife to feel remorse; and I think, increase the likelihood that she will cheat again, leave you, or both.


Ummmmmmmmm...she couldn't have respected him that much pre-affair to cheat...so how much worse can she view him now. I'm not defending the part of making his wife watch - but i don't judge those who have RAs in general. The BS needs to do what they need to heal.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

aine said:


> for you and your pain but what you did was the lowest of the low. Your desire for revenge and your vindictiveness has no place in a marriage, even a broken one, you have completely crossed the line and I hope your wife would will see you for who you really are a vengeful, hateful person and go. You should not be together, because the reality is, you will never get past your hatred. What your wife did to you was bad, but your response was much worse. *If that is the hateful character you have, I am not surprised she is looking towards another man.*


This is exactly what I thought.


----------



## Stang197

I hear what everyone is saying. Maybe it makes me a jerk or stupid, maybe not... Who knows. I do know up until she did this I was 100% faithful. Afterwards I thought simply having sex with someone else would make me feel like the score was settled. Nope. Because I paid for it I. I worked out hard,got in the best shape of my life, and concentrated on being really outgoing. When I started seeing women respond it started to get addictive. Really boosted my self esteem. Good or bad that's what happened and that's where I am. The marriage might be to jacked to save. I know. I don't know if later on she is going to flip out. Right now she really wants to fix this. I am done screwing around.


----------



## Clay2013

Stang197 said:


> Typical cheating wife story. Guy praised constantly. We had a new baby with special needs. We were fighting a lot. To much drinking. Poor boundaries. She has Foo issues including a cheating mother. Her dad never imposed consequences for her bad decisions growing up. Ect.


All this is why you should have just left her when you found out. Staying with someone that can and WILL do this to you is never worth it. Now you have become just like her and your continuing to punish her for it only makes you look worse. 

Grow up and get out of this toxic marriage and get into counceling. Being cheated on hurts. No one can say it doesn't. It kills a part of us. 

Come up with a good custodial arrangement and focus on being a good parent. 

C


----------



## Truthseeker1

Stang197 said:


> I hear what everyone is saying. Maybe it makes me a jerk or stupid, maybe not... Who knows. I do know up until she did this I was 100% faithful. Afterwards I thought simply having sex with someone else would make me feel like the score was settled. Nope. Because I paid for it I. I worked out hard,got in the best shape of my life, and concentrated on being really outgoing. When I started seeing women respond it started to get addictive. Really boosted my self esteem. Good or bad that's what happened and that's where I am. The marriage might be to jacked to save. I know. I don't know if later on she is going to flip out. Right now she really wants to fix this. I am done screwing around.


Just work on you and your marriage now - you BOTH messed up and hopefully you can save it for your kids sake.


----------



## badmemory

Truthseeker1 said:


> Ummmmmmmmm...she couldn't have respected him that much pre-affair to cheat...so how much worse can she view him now.


I'm not really talking about respect, though that is debatable. I'm talking about her ability to feel empathy for him - after he discovered she cheated. To me, that's one of the foundations for true remorse.


----------



## Truthseeker1

badmemory said:


> I'm not really talking about respect, though that is debatable. I'm talking about her ability to see him emphatically - even after he discovered she cheated.


I think some BSs for their own mental health need to feel like the score is settled...i'm not defending this particular approach but I really dont judge people who have RAs...I understand the need to strike back...


----------



## Stang197

StilltheStudent said:


> I have to agree with the bulk of the commentary.
> 
> The one tried and true method of getting to reconciliation in these cases seems to be to force the cheating spouse to face the consequences of their actions and use their guilt both as a measure of a potential future (no guilt, no future, guilt at the outcome but not at the action? No remorse. Etc) and as a means to force them to change.
> 
> By getting your revenge you leveled the playing field.
> 
> There was nothing for her to be guilty about anymore, you were even in that moment.
> 
> By engaging in multiple affairs post-revenge you sent it in the other direction.
> 
> Your marriage is over and you are actively damaging your daughter through these actions.
> 
> Divorce already and invest in some serious individual counseling man.


If the marriage survived simply because she had this overwhelming guilt it would be to sad for me stay anyways. We might divorce, might not. She is trying awfully hard. I have been trying harder now than I have during the last year so we will see. As far as my daughter is concerned she is happy that we are staying together for now.


----------



## Stang197

Clay2013 said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical cheating wife story. Guy praised constantly. We had a new baby with special needs. We were fighting a lot. To much drinking. Poor boundaries. She has Foo issues including a cheating mother. Her dad never imposed consequences for her bad decisions growing up. Ect.
> 
> 
> 
> All this is why you should have just left her when you found out. Staying with someone that can and WILL do this to you is never worth it. Now you have become just like here and your continuing to punish her for it only makes you look worse.
> 
> Grow up and get out of this toxic marriage and get into counceling. Being cheated on hurts. No one can say it doesn't. It kills a part of us.
> 
> Come up with a good custodial arrangement and focus on being a good parent.
> 
> C
Click to expand...

If we divorce I don't think we will come up with a good custodial agreement. She explicitly states she will take my kids out of state to live with her dad. Since she is unemployed she can't afford to live on her own.


----------



## badmemory

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think some BSs for their own mental health need to feel like the score is settled...i'm not defending this particular approach but I really dont judge people who have RAs...I understand the need to strike back...


I understand the motivation for RA's as well. But I don't think RA's are a good idea if the idea is to R. Maybe for the BS in the short term, but not for the marriage.

I think RA's where the BS insists the WS watch - metaphorically rubbing her nose in her own excrement; not good for the BS and even worse for the marriage.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Stang197 said:


> I noticed 2 picture messages that were sent to me and one minute later to him. I know what pics she sent me. They were or her exposing herself in her underwear. Showing her breasts and her vagina.


My ex did the same thing.... Typical wh0re mentality. They get off on the feeling of multiple men wanting them. That's why they cheat instead of just leaving. 



Stang197 said:


> I told her that if she wanted me that bad she was going to have to watch me have sex with another woman. I hired an escort and did the deed in front of her.


Awesome... Bravo sir... Bra-vo.



Stang197 said:


> The cops that arrested me and the nurses at the facility that I was stuck in all told me to ditch her.


Good advice..... You should have taken it.


----------



## Healer

Uh, you two should NOT be together. What a sordid, disgusting chain of events. If this is all true, it's one of the more f'ed up situations I've read on CWI. I think your daughter would be way better off without being in the middle of this extremely toxic marriage. 

I understand your reaction to some extent - but man, just divorce her. You are torturing each other and it's going to mess your daughter up, big time.


----------



## Stang197

Truthseeker1 said:


> badmemory said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand the devastation of being cheated on; and I made my fair share of mistakes afterwards. I also know that's it's important that WS's receive consequences. All too often we see BS's here, that are afraid to give those consequences.
> 
> But OP, you are on the opposite end of that spectrum. You made some very bad decisions that will negatively effect your marriage and *how your wife perceives you from now on.*
> 
> By not being able to control your emotions, you gave up the high road. And by doing so, you took away the motivation for your wife to feel remorse; and I think, increase the likelihood that she will cheat again, leave you, or both.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmmmmmmm...she couldn't have respected him that much pre-affair to cheat...so how much worse can she view him now. I'm not defending the part of making his wife watch - but i don't judge those who have RAs in general. The BS needs to do what they need to heal.
Click to expand...

I agree. She had zero respect for the guy that kept a roof over her head, food in the fridge, clothes in the closet, and took her and the family out constantly. She always drives nice cars and lives in good areas. If she respected me so little then and has since lost respect.... Who cares. Before most of my deeds but after her affair, she threatened to move my kids out of state. Doesn't sound too remorseful. She better respect me more if she wants this to work, not less. And she says she wants it to work. I will not put up with on ounce of crap moving forward.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think some BSs for their own mental health need to feel like the score is settled...i'm not defending this particular approach but I really dont judge people who have RAs...I understand the need to strike back...


I understand completely too that's why I divorced. Reconciliation is about forgiveness and if you feel like you MUST settle the score then reconciliation is not for you. Not everyone is CAPABLE of reconciling. It's a huge sh!t sandwich that many people's gag reflex (i.e. pride) won't allow them swallow.


----------



## Truthseeker1

badmemory said:


> I understand the motivation for RA's as well. But I don't think RA's are a good idea if the idea is to R. Maybe for the BS in the short term, but not for the marriage.
> 
> *I think RA's where the BS insists the WS watch - metaphorically rubbing her nose in her own excrement; not good for the BS and even worse for the marriage.*


Agree on the second point - I think each BS has to decide what they need to deal and then execute that plan - no rolling over.


----------



## Truthseeker1

BetrayedDad said:


> I understand completely too that's why I divorced. Reconciliation is about forgiveness and if you feel like you MUST settle the score then reconciliation is not for you. Not everyone is CAPABLE of reconciling. It's a huge sh!t sandwich that many people's gag reflex (i.e. pride) won't allow them swallow.


Some BSs need to counter punch for their own mental health- then they do what they have to do..I do not judge.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
The deed is done and it seems pointless now to debate the efficacy of your methods. However, as this is a public forum, we offer advice not only for the benefit of the OP but for others that will read your story as well. To that end I would like to posit this thought. As a tool used to promote change and to improve any situation revenge is rarely, if ever, successful due to the perception of the person on which the revenge is perpetrated. As an example let us use your story.

Your wife had an A with a good friend of yours. Now if we look at this objectively we can see that your wife does not place a very high value on infidelity regarding its deleterious effect on the SO. We can therefore conclude that using it as punishment would be dubious. Further evidence to support this was her reaction to watching you copulate with the prostitute. You indicated she was "uncomfortable" and that after the encounter she expressed her hope that "we can put all of this behind us". You were devastated by her actions and she was made uncomfortable by yours which seems to cast doubt as to the effectiveness of this form of "revenge". Some have mentioned that it seems "justified" that you rubbed your wife's nose in her own "feces" however, she does not place the negative connotation to infidelity that you do so therefore it may be more like rubbing her nose in mud or perhaps even something less offensive than mud. It does not carry the negative connotation to her to be viewed as "feces".

So then, the "punishment" that you doled out may have been more akin to a mild timeout as opposed to the serious spanking you thought you were dispensing. Considering all of this your "revenge" may have had less than the desired result you anticipated.

In addition to the efficacy issue there is the issue of your honor and integrity. You took the same vows as your wife and solemnly swore to adhere to those vows "for better or worse". Well I agree it certainly doesn't get much worse than what your wife did but that does not relieve you of your oath. You can say that all bets are off when she cheated but the vow you took was not conditional and therefore you have now broken your word. Is it prudent to allow this A to continue to damage you and your life? And for how long will this be allowed to control you and your decisions?

You must understand that I do realize your pain, as do most here but it cannot be allowed to control you or you will lose yourself to it and become as bad or worse as the person who caused it. I do understand retribution and I feel it can be useful but only inasmuch as it allows the other party to feel your pain, in its severity, as if it were there own. What you have done has not accomplished that but has, I fear, given your wife a false sense of a more level playing field. It has also demonstrated to her your honor and integrity as so far as instead of her changing to be as you, you changed to be as her. I feel it was poorly thought out and will not have the effect you desired and you have lost your values in the process. It is understandable but also regrettable.


----------



## Stang197

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> The deed is done and it seems pointless now to debate the efficacy of your methods. However, as this is a public forum we offer advice not only for the benefit of the OP but for other that will read your story. To that end I would like to posit this thought. As a tool used to promote change and to improve any situation revenge is rarely, if ever, successful due to the perception of the person on which the revenge is perpetrated. As an example let us use your story.
> 
> Your wife had an A with a good friend of yours. Now if we look at this objectively we can see that your wife does not place a very high value on infidelity regarding its deleterious effect on the SO. We can therefore conclude that using it as punishment would be dubious. Further evidence to support this was her reaction to watching you copulate with the prostitute. You indicated she was "uncomfortable" and that after the encounter she expressed her hope that "we can put all of this behind us". You were devastated by her actions and she was made uncomfortable by yours which seems to cast doubt as to the effectiveness of this form of "revenge". Some have mentioned that it seems "justified" that you rubbed your wife's nose in her own "feces" however, she does not place the negative connotation to infidelity that you do so therefore it may be more like rubbing her nose in mud or perhaps even something less offensive than mud. It does not carry the negative connotation to her to be viewed as "feces".
> 
> So then, the "punishment" that you doled out may have been more akin to a mild timeout as opposed to the serious spanking you thought you were dispensing. Considering all of this your "revenge" may have had less than the desired result you anticipated.
> 
> In addition to the efficacy issue there is the issue of your honor and integrity. You took the same vows as your wife and solemnly swore to adhere to those vows "for better or worse". Well I agree it certainly doesn't get much worse than what your wife did but that does not relieve you of your oath. You can say that all bets are off when she cheated but the vow you took was not conditional and therefore you have now broken your word. Is it prudent to allow this A to continue to damage you and your life? And for how long will this be allowed to control you and your decisions?
> 
> You must understand that I do realize your pain, as do most here but it cannot be allowed to control you or you will lose yourself to it and become as bad or worse as the person who caused it. I do understand retribution and I feel it can be useful but only inasmuch as it allows the other party to feel your pain, in its severity, as if it were there own. What you have done has not accomplished that but has, I fear, given your wife a false sense of a more level playing field. It has also demonstrated to her your honor and integrity as so far as instead of her changing to be as you, you changed to be as her. I feel it was poorly thought out and will not have the effect you desired and you have lost your values in the process. It is understandable but also regrettable.


Ya the whole thing sucks for sure. I don't feel like I lost my values though. She trashed our family and marriage in order to worship her crotch . It might be worse now but after what she did not sure if it could be that much worse.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Stang197 said:


> Ya the whole thing sucks for sure. I don't feel like I lost my values though. She trashed our family and marriage in order to worship her crotch . It might be worse now but after what she did not sure if it could be that much worse.


I agree. She burned down the house. You just pissed on the ashes. You should of framed the condom you used on the escort as a trophy on your mantle at home. So she can look at it every day and be reminded of her humiliation. Well, hopefully you used a condom.


----------



## badmemory

NoChoice said:


> Its also demonstrated to her your honor and integrity as so far as instead of her changing to be as you, you changed to be as her.


Well said.


----------



## Bibi1031

GusPolinski said:


> Do you _honestly[/Isomething as ludicrous as what's been presented here is a lack of "balls"?_


_

And BINGO was his name ohhhhhhhhhhhh>

GusP...love your insight dude!_


----------



## BetrayedDad

Sometimes the high road is overrated....

What's wrong with "eye for an eye" on occasion?

Many cheaters are such scumbags they don't even know you're on the high road. The whole concept goes over their heads, no pun intented. It just comes off as weakness to them. But they sure do learn quick when you operate on a level they do understand (i.e. theirs).


----------



## Truthseeker1

BetrayedDad said:


> Sometimes the high road is overrated....
> 
> What's wrong with "eye for an eye" on occasion.


:iagree: Sometimes you have to serve up your own sh!t sandwich and serve it to the cheater...let them gag for a change...


----------



## sparrow555

JohnA said:


> So after the pain her affair caused you, you turn around and do it to her, first with a ***** then turned around and had two EAs on line. One of your.EA is now taunting your wife by claiming to be carrying your bastard.
> 
> You really showed your DAUGHTER didn't you stang and now your wife knows you have no problem finding and screwing prostitutes.
> 
> Yep, perfectly normal, perfectly healthy, perfectly sane.
> 
> Empathy is at the core of love, do you realize yet what you have done?




Really? that was all you could focus on his entire post ? An affair is something he would be doing behind her back. Atleast she knew what he was upto and she could always leave. 

And did you notice the part where she cleaned out the bank account when she moved out?


----------



## Stang197

BetrayedDad said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya the whole thing sucks for sure. I don't feel like I lost my values though. She trashed our family and marriage in order to worship her crotch . It might be worse now but after what she did not sure if it could be that much worse.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. She burned down the house. You just pissed on the ashes. You should of framed the condom you used on the escort as a trophy on your mantle at home. So she can look at it every day and be reminded of her humiliation. Well, hopefully you used a condom.
Click to expand...

I absolutely used a condom. She was the one that didn't. I did get tested for STD's for sure.


----------



## Bibi1031

Here we go again with the eye for an eye BU!! $hit.

Two wrongs NEVER a right make...sheesh!

Bibi


----------



## Stang197

sparrow555 said:


> JohnA said:
> 
> 
> 
> So after the pain her affair caused you, you turn around and do it to her, first with a ***** then turned around and had two EAs on line. One of your.EA is now taunting your wife by claiming to be carrying your bastard.
> 
> You really showed your DAUGHTER didn't you stang and now your wife knows you have no problem finding and screwing prostitutes.
> 
> Yep, perfectly normal, perfectly healthy, perfectly sane.
> 
> Empathy is at the core of love, do you realize yet what you have done?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? that was all you could focus on his entire post ? An affair is something he would be doing behind her back. Atleast she knew what he was upto and she could always leave.
> 
> And did you notice the part where she cleaned out the bank account when she moved out?
Click to expand...

She had no problem leaving me high and dry. At that point I had not engaged in anything with any women. I came home to an empty house and no money. Kids gone and no returned phone calls. Nothing. Was left wondering what just happened.


----------



## Clay2013

Stang197 said:


> If we divorce I don't think we will come up with a good custodial agreement. She explicitly states she will take my kids out of state to live with her dad. Since she is unemployed she can't afford to live on her own.


It doesn't work that way. She can't just leave the state. You take it to your lawyer and you work it out. There are things you can demand just like she can. Just understand that your going to have to be reasonable or it will come back to burn you. 

Check with a lawyer and see what your laws say about this. 

C


----------



## The Middleman

BetrayedDad said:


> Sometimes the high road is overrated....
> 
> What's wrong with "eye for an eye" on occasion?
> 
> Many cheaters are such scumbags they don't even know you're on the high road. The whole concept goes over their heads, no pun intented. It just comes off as weakness to them. But they sure do learn quick when you operate on a level they do understand (i.e. theirs).


I agree, in cases of infidelity, it's way too overrated. If Stang can live with what he did, and feels that his actions will now allow him to move forward with or without is cheating wife, then more power to him. I think the end result is that his wife now knows he's not to be fvcked with when you take into account the exposure and the RAs. There was both consequences and punishment for her actions.

What I would have done differently was not bring my WW to see me have sex with a hooker, I would have hooked up with someone, secretly made video it and then take it home to her to watch with me. That would be much more effective (from the movie Jarhead).

I also question the reaction against Stang and his method of revenge. If a BS can find peace through what he did, and he didn't really do anything illegal, shouldn't we support him? His wife sh1t on the marriage, so he went ahead and pissed on it. Now he's in a place where he can say want to try again? It's now up to her to make it work.

Kudos Stang.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> I absolutely used a condom. She was the one that didn't. I did get tested for STD's for sure.


I didn't realize her sex was unprotected (stupid me, affair sex is always unprotected). So to add insult to injury, she brought home a load of the OM for you. Lovely.

Anyone who say you did the wrong thing is seriously misguided.


----------



## The Middleman

Bibi1031 said:


> Here we go again with the eye for an eye BU!! $hit.
> 
> Two wrongs NEVER a right make...sheesh!
> 
> Bibi


Maybe not, but it would sure make me feel good.


----------



## Bibi1031

Stang197 said:


> She had no problem leaving me high and dry. At that point I had not engaged in anything with any women. I came home to an empty house and no money. Kids gone and no returned phone calls. Nothing. Was left wondering what just happened.


Yeah she pulled the rug from under you and threw you under the bus Stang.

She is scum, we all get that, but you weren't scum.

Get your ba!!s back and set yourself free dude. You have allowed her $hit to drag you beneath her.

We are all here for you. The ones that cheer your fok up and the ones like me that see your downward spiral into a dark and lonely place.

We all travel this road broken...the wondering spouse as well as the left behind. It's all part of our own journeys to eventually heal. 

You are not healing, you are still hurting Stang. You are the Walking Wounded. 

You were wounded when you tried to kill yourself and you are still wounded when you stooped down to her level.

It's okay. You will find yourself....eventually. I hope you will end up a better man than you were before her $hit hit the fan and contaminated YOU!

Peace and healthy healing for you Stang,

Bibi


----------



## BetrayedDad

Bibi1031 said:


> Here we go again with the eye for an eye BU!! $hit.
> 
> Two wrongs NEVER a right make...sheesh!
> 
> Bibi


Thanks Bibi... Appreciate it.

Hey, next time someone royally screws you over, you should totally take the high road and tell them,"Two wrongs NEVER a right make...sheesh!" and walk away head held high. 

That'll teach them a thing or two.

Now, what do you really think the chances are they actually give a flying fvck?


----------



## NoChoice

If this woman could be hurt in the manner you speak of, by watching her H copulate with a hooker, do you not believe that what she did to her H, her daughter, her family (parents, siblings and the like) and herself would be causing her intense pain? The fact that it is/did not is insurmountable evidence that she can not be deeply hurt in this way. I see it as akin to fighting a raging fire with gasoline. You can't burn the fire any hotter, it is already hot. You would be wasting gasoline.

Inquiry....What would you do to a blind man who poked your eye out?


----------



## The Middleman

NoChoice said:


> Inquiry....What would you do to a blind man who poked your eye out?


Slit his throat.


----------



## BetrayedDad

NoChoice said:


> If this woman could be hurt in the manner you speak of, by watching her H copulate with a hooker, do you not believe that what she did to her H, her daughter, her family (parents, siblings and the like) and herself would be causing her intense pain? The fact that it is/did not is insurmountable evidence that she can not be deeply hurt in this way. I see it as akin to fighting a raging fire with gasoline. You can't burn the fire any hotter, it is already hot. You would be wasting gasoline.
> 
> Inquiry....What would you do to a blind man who poked your eye out?


Bad analogy... If it didn't bother her she'd just ask for an open relationship. Why not? It would be win/win for her.

Cheaters are selfish cake eaters. They are more than happy to cheat but would be crushed if the BS does. Think of Scrooge McDuck, a billionaire who still gets upset if he loses a penny. It still matters despite them gorging themselves with OM sex, that's the cheater mentality.


----------



## Truthseeker1

NoChoice said:


> If this woman could be hurt in the manner you speak of, by watching her H copulate with a hooker, do you not believe that what she did to her H, her daughter, her family (parents, siblings and the like) and herself would be causing her intense pain? The fact that it is/did not is insurmountable evidence that she can not be deeply hurt in this way. I see it as akin to fighting a raging fire with gasoline. You can't burn the fire any hotter, it is already hot. You would be wasting gasoline.
> 
> *Inquiry....What would you do to a blind man who poked your eye out?*


Cut his ears off >


----------



## convert

sometimes we do fight fires with fire. It sure does not sound logical but it does work sometimes.


----------



## Bibi1031

BetrayedDad said:


> Thanks Bibi... Appreciate it.
> 
> Hey, next time someone royally screws you over, you should totally take the high road and tell them,"Two wrongs NEVER a right make...sheesh!" and walk away head held high.
> 
> That'll teach them a thing or two.
> 
> Now, what do you really think the chances are they actually give a flying fvck?


It's not about them; they are emotionally long gone. It's now all about US. The choices we make and the consequences we endure. 

:crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:


----------



## Bibi1031

The Middleman said:


> Slit his throat.


Go to jail go directly to jail and do not pass go...do NOT collect $200

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## convert

The blind guy ----you draw a picture of man and label it Allah and tape it to his back and send him to the middle east, heck probably would not have to send him to the middle east.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Bibi1031 said:


> It's not about them; they are emotionally long gone. It's now all about US. The choices we make and the consequences we endure.
> 
> :crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:


If it's only about US then I defer to this excellent point:



The Middleman said:


> If Stang can live with what he did, and feels that his actions will now allow him to move forward with or without is cheating wife, then more power to him.


 @Bibi1031, I'm still trying to find this negative consequence you speak of...

I personally think OP is crazy for wanting to reconcile but that's his choice.


----------



## GusPolinski

NoChoice said:


> If this woman could be hurt in the manner you speak of, by watching her H copulate with a hooker, do you not believe that what she did to her H, her daughter, her family (parents, siblings and the like) and herself would be causing her intense pain? The fact that it is/did not is insurmountable evidence that she can not be deeply hurt in this way.


Ehhh... maybe. But if any hurt that she feels as a result of her own actions were brought about ONLY due to OP's response, then -- IMO -- it's not a genuine reaction.



NoChoice said:


> I see it as akin to fighting a raging fire with gasoline. *You can't burn the fire any hotter, it is already hot.* You would be wasting gasoline.


I'm loathe to point out that this isn't quite true.

And besides, fires are sometimes snuffed out by setting off a large, intense explosion in order to starve the existing fire of oxygen.



NoChoice said:


> Inquiry....What would you do to a blind man who poked your eye out?


Poor analogy, IMO.

And please note that I've not said any of this to serve as indication that I approve of or condone OP's approach to dealing w/ his wife's affair.


----------



## The Middleman

Bibi1031 said:


> Go to jail go directly to jail and do not pass go...do NOT collect $200
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


I assumed you were talking figuratively and not literally


----------



## Bibi1031

BetrayedDad said:


> If it's only about US then I defer to this excellent point:
> 
> 
> @Bibi1031, I'm still trying to find this negative consequence you speak of...
> 
> I personally think OP is crazy for wanting to reconcile but that's his choice.


He is being reactive and not proactive.

Stang's journey right now is still ALL about HER!

He hasn't done the 180 and as long as he is still reacting to her $hit, he is not working on HIM.

He needs to shift his focus and make this journey ALL about him...hence being PROACTIVE.


----------



## Bibi1031

The Middleman said:


> I assumed you were talking figuratively and not literally


:iagree:


----------



## The Middleman

badmemory said:


> Originally Posted by NoChoice View Post
> Its also demonstrated to her your honor and integrity as so far as instead of her changing to be as you, you changed to be as her.
> 
> 
> 
> Well said.
Click to expand...

Maybe Stang didn't get dragged down to her level. Maybe his personality is "you Fock with me and I'm going to Fock you right back". As long as she was a loyal spouse, he was a good husband. She played the wh0re, he went to hurt her in a like kind. If it isn't in your personality to do that, you won't do it. No one can force you into it. I have that same personality. Poke my eye out, I slit your throat (figuratively). No one gets over on me and gets away with it. 

I've seen 3 BHs here over the years (who's WWs were also posting) who reconciled in misery. One reason I think they were miserable is they never leveled the playing field. I still don't know how they can live with their "spouses".


----------



## Stang197

Just got off the phone with WW. She read the thread and is upset I didn't provide her justifications. I did invite her to tell her side.


----------



## badmemory

Stang197 said:


> Just got off the phone with WW. *She read the thread* and is upset I didn't provide her justifications. I did invite her to tell her side.


Well, if that was intentional on your part, good for you for allowing her to see what many posters are saying about your RA.

I'd be very interested to hear how she feels about it.


----------



## Steve1000

happy as a clam said:


> Well, I am a bit perplexed at my own reaction (mostly surprised that I haven't thought of this myself before now). Yes, it's cruel... but perhaps this is exactly what WS's need to feel.


The problem with this is that sleeping with a prostitute in front of my wife would not make me feel any better about what she had done. I would still have the same hurt as before and a wife who would think that she no longer needs to feel sorry for her actions. The whole thing might sound fair, but would just lead to more devastation and make any type of reconciliation even more difficult.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> Just got off the phone with WW. She read the thread and is upset I didn't provide her justifications. I did invite her to tell her side.


First of all, I recommend you don't bring her here. This is your place. If you think you were beat up on now, just wait until she gets here. DON'T DO IT!

Second: What justification? Justification for bringing you home a cream pie? For banging someone you knew. Please spare us and don't do it.


----------



## Clay2013

The Middleman said:


> First of all, I recommend you don't bring her here. This is your place. If you think you were beat up on now, just wait until she gets here. DON'T DO IT!
> 
> Second: What justification? Justification for bringing you home a cream pie? For banging someone you knew. Please spare us and don't do it.


To late lol 

or should I say OOPS. lol 

I doubt this is going to end well for either one of them. 


C


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just got off the phone with WW. She read the thread and is upset I didn't provide her justifications. I did invite her to tell her side.
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, I recommend you don't bring her here. This is your place. If you think you were beat up on now, just wait until she gets here. DON'T DO IT!
> 
> Second: What justification? Justification for bringing you home a cream pie? For banging someone you knew. Please spare us and don't do it.
Click to expand...

She was upset that I said her story was that of a typical cheating wife. She thinks her story is special. I said mean things when we fought, wasn't affectionate enough, ect. Thats true. Still sounds like typical cheating wife story. Of all the crap I have done, the way I treated her before her affair is what I am remorseful for. She is upset about that too.


----------



## ConanHub

She is still justifying acting like a 
wh0re on you?

Dude, you should have just divorced her dumb ass.

She is not remorseful if she brings up your marriage issues in conjunction with her fvcking the dad of your daughter's friend.

What skankery! Real class!

She cheated because she was a slvt, not because of your marriage problems.

I don't think you should have done what you did in retaliation but I'm not going to hit you hard about it.

You should have focused more on strengthening your marriage if you want to have a chance. She has a hell of a lot more work to do to even be considered remorseful.

I think you should call it quits.

Pretty nice how she packed up the house and kids after she got caught fvcking another man. What a catch you have there.

What exactly is the attraction between you two?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bibi1031

ConanHub said:


> What exactly is the attraction between you two?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



The mother load **** bomb that is going to explode in their faces?


----------



## Stang197

ConanHub said:


> She is still justifying acting like a
> wh0re on you?
> 
> Dude, you should have just divorced her dumb ass.
> 
> She is not remorseful if she brings up your marriage issues in conjunction with her fvcking the dad of your daughter's friend.
> 
> What skankery! Real class!
> 
> She cheated because she was a slvt, not because of your marriage problems.
> 
> I don't think you should have done what you did in retaliation but I'm not going to hit you hard about it.
> 
> You should have focused more on strengthening your marriage if you want to have a chance. She has a hell of a lot more work to do to even be considered remorseful.
> 
> I think you should call it quits.
> 
> Pretty nice how she packed up the house and kids after she got caught fvcking another man. What a catch you have there.
> 
> What exactly is the attraction between you two?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ya she still justifies it.... But she always says "not to justify anything but here is why".


----------



## ConanHub

Stang197 said:


> Ya she still justifies it.... But she always says "not to justify anything but here is why".


She is a remorseless cheater.

No one made her bang the other guy. Until she owns her shyt in that arena your marriage won't heal.

How much longer are you going to put up with her shyt?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

Stang197 said:


> Just got off the phone with WW. She read the thread and is upset I didn't provide her justifications. I did invite her to tell her side.


Sooo... is she going to create an account and tell her side of things?

Usually it's the other way around... the girlfriend/wife starts a thread and then the boyfriend/husband follows afterward.


----------



## OnTheRocks

She cannot just take your kids out of state. She seems to have the misconception that seems common among mothers that the kids are "hers". Talk to a lawyer and ask about geographic restrictions. She is free to move wherever she likes, but the courts frown on one parent trying to move the kids away from the other parent. They want both parents to have as much regular contact with their kids as possible, for everyones' benefit. In my county, you can get the restriction set to within the county. So she can pound sand, as far as that goes.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> Ya she still justifies it.... But she always says "not to justify anything but here is why".


Wow, have I heard that one before? Yeah, many times from the TAM darlings.


----------



## alte Dame

I think if you felt it important to humiliate her the way she humiliated you, then you should have divorced after your show with the hooker.

I understand revenge. I understand comeuppance. I understand justice.

I believe, however, that you have at best taken this too far. You two are now in a toxic dance that will never be good for children. You now have a taste of the ego boost that cheating affords & you will probably not stop your own cheating. And you feel justified to do this because of her A. In this scheme, though, is there a magic number of affairs of your own that will finally level the field? Or do you get to cheat endlessly forever because she started it?

You brought children into the world and they deserve far better than to live in a household with parents who are acting like this, in my opinion.


----------



## Stang197

alte Dame said:


> I think if you felt it important to humiliate her the way she humiliated you, then you should have divorced after your show with the hooker.
> 
> I understand revenge. I understand comeuppance. I understand justice.
> 
> I believe, however, that you have at best taken this too far. You two are now in a toxic dance that will never be good for children. You now have a taste of the ego boost that cheating affords & you will probably not stop your own cheating. And you feel justified to do this because of her A. In this scheme, though, is there a magic number of affairs of your own that will finally level the field? Or do you get to cheat endlessly forever because she started it?
> 
> You brought children into the world and they deserve far better than to live in a household with parents who are acting like this, in my opinion.


I definitely agree that the kids deserve better than this. I have stopped my crap. Still not sure how I want to move forward though. I absolutely want the best for my kids too. I am not sure if my wife moving them out of state if I divorce or us trying to work it out is better.


----------



## ConanHub

Stang197 said:


> I definitely agree that the kids deserve better than this. I have stopped my crap. Still not sure how I want to move forward though. I absolutely want the best for my kids too. I am not sure if my wife moving them out of state if I divorce or us trying to work it out is better.


It isn't going to work out while your wife is remorseless.

She is still blame shifting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

ConanHub said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely agree that the kids deserve better than this. I have stopped my crap. Still not sure how I want to move forward though. I absolutely want the best for my kids too. I am not sure if my wife moving them out of state if I divorce or us trying to work it out is better.
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't going to work out while your wife is remorseless.
> 
> She is still blame shifting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

She hasn't stopped crying about it for 15 months. Not sure if that is because of what she did to me or the potential loss of her life style. So crappy always wondering about someone's motives.


----------



## sparrow555

Bibi1031 said:


> To most outsiders looking in at your story and your choices.



Speak for yourself. I don't think what he did was in his best interest but attacking him, calling him a bottom dweller was uncalled for


----------



## Stang197

I did forget to mention that she did tattoo my name on her wrist, go no contact immediately, initiate counseling, and read tons of books after all of this.


----------



## sparrow555

Stang197 said:


> I definitely agree that the kids deserve better than this. I have stopped my crap. Still not sure how I want to move forward though. I absolutely want the best for my kids too. I am not sure if my wife moving them out of state if I divorce or us trying to work it out is better.


She simply cannot move the kids away from you, leave about a different state.


----------



## NoChoice

The Middleman said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inquiry....What would you do to a blind man who poked your eye out?
> 
> 
> 
> Slit his throat.
Click to expand...

Exactly, you would not poke his eye because you could not hurt him by poking his eye, he is already blind.



BetrayedDad said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this woman could be hurt in the manner you speak of, by watching her H copulate with a hooker, do you not believe that what she did to her H, her daughter, her family (parents, siblings and the like) and herself would be causing her intense pain? The fact that it is/did not is insurmountable evidence that she can not be deeply hurt in this way. I see it as akin to fighting a raging fire with gasoline. You can't burn the fire any hotter, it is already hot. You would be wasting gasoline.
> 
> Inquiry....What would you do to a blind man who poked your eye out?
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy... If it didn't bother her she'd just ask for an open relationship. Why not? It would be win/win for her.
> 
> Cheaters are selfish cake eaters. They are more than happy to cheat but would be crushed if the BS does. Think of Scrooge McDuck, a billionaire who still gets upset if he loses a penny. It still matters despite them gorging themselves with OM sex, that's the cheater mentality.
Click to expand...

Sir, respectfully, if it bothered her she could not do it. She did not want an open marriage simply because she was expecting exactly the violent explosion that occurred when H found out. I agree she wanted to cake eat but it had to be covertly to avoid the explosion.



Truthseeker1 said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inquiry....What would you do to a blind man who poked your eye out?
> 
> 
> 
> Cut his ears off >
Click to expand...

Again, not poke his eyes out?



convert said:


> sometimes we do fight fires with fire. It sure does not sound logical but it does work sometimes.


This is true but I did not say fight fire with fire I said apply gasoline which is a fuel to fire. Fighting fire with fire burns up the available fuel it does not add to it.



convert said:


> The blind guy ----you draw a picture of man and label it Allah and tape it to his back and send him to the middle east, heck probably would not have to send him to the middle east.


Once again a suggestion that is not poking him in the eye.



GusPolinski said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this woman could be hurt in the manner you speak of, by watching her H copulate with a hooker, do you not believe that what she did to her H, her daughter, her family (parents, siblings and the like) and herself would be causing her intense pain? The fact that it is/did not is insurmountable evidence that she can not be deeply hurt in this way.
> 
> 
> 
> Ehhh... maybe. But if any hurt that she feels as a result of her own actions were brought about ONLY due to OP's response, then -- IMO -- it's not a genuine reaction.
Click to expand...

Exactly





GusPolinski said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see it as akin to fighting a raging fire with gasoline. You can't burn the fire any hotter, it is already hot. You would be wasting gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm loathe to point out that this isn't quite true.
> 
> And besides, fires are sometimes snuffed out by setting off a large, intense explosion in order to starve the existing fire of oxygen.
Click to expand...

I will concede that the temperature can be raised but I was not talking about a specific temperature but rather the condition of being hot.

I am at a loss to understand your reference of removing fuel as a contradiction of my statement of adding same. Surely you see the difference between removing oxygen (fuel) and adding gasoline (fuel).





GusPolinski said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> Inquiry....What would you do to a blind man who poked your eye out?
> 
> 
> 
> Poor analogy, IMO.
Click to expand...

I merely was trying to make the point that to retaliate against a blind man by poking out his eyes is counterproductive in the exact same way that exposing infidelity to a cheater is likewise, as several here have pointed out. Additionally, if OP's wife is unremorseful and still infatuated with the OM, how deeply concerned was she to see her H perform coitus with that prostitute? In fact, it may have inspired her to think of her and her OM.



GusPolinski said:


> And please note that I've not said any of this to serve as indication that I approve of or condone OP's approach to dealing w/ his wife's affair.


Noted.




The Middleman said:


> Maybe Stang didn't get dragged down to her level. Maybe his personality is "you Fock with me and I'm going to Fock you right back". As long as she was a loyal spouse, he was a good husband. She played the wh0re, he went to hurt her in a like kind. If it isn't in your personality to do that, you won't do it. No one can force you into it. I have that same personality. Poke my eye out, *I slit your throat (figuratively)*. No one gets over on me and gets away with it.
> 
> I've seen 3 BHs here over the years (who's WWs were also posting) who reconciled in misery. One reason I think they were miserable is they never leveled the playing field. I still don't know how they can live with their "spouses".


Again, no eye poking. My whole point is his actions did not carry the weight of hers simply because she was already blind. If he had figuratively slit her throat, as you say, it would have to have been in a way that truly caused her pain and I simply believe that watching him be intimate with the prostitute did not accomplish that. Infidelity simply is not that high on her hurt list.

One last thought on the eye for and eye mentality. That form of punishment was/is designed primarily as a deterrent to others and less as a punishment for the act itself. If it deters one from losing an eye then it has succeeded but if it is solely a punishment then you just end up with two people missing eyes. You can change an outcome by deterring but you cannot change an outcome with punishment. The eye is still gone no matter how badly you torture and maim the perpetrator.


----------



## Stang197

Bibi1031 said:


> sparrow555 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speak for yourself. I don't think what he did was in his best interest but attacking him, calling him a bottom dweller was uncalled for
> 
> 
> 
> That is all water under the bridge now sparrow.
> 
> Time to dance and rejoice because Stang is on his way to healing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :yay
> 
> :
Click to expand...

I was trying to point out the stuff she did to prove her remorsefulness


----------



## BetrayedDad

NoChoice said:


> Sir, respectfully, if it bothered her she could not do it. She did not want an open marriage simply because she was expecting exactly the violent explosion that occurred when H found out. I agree she wanted to cake eat but it had to be covertly to avoid the explosion.


Let's agree we are speaking in generalities. That said, she may or may not have cared. We will never know for certain. It did not bother her to cheat clearly but that absolutely does not mean it would not bother her to be cheated on or in this case watch her husband cheat on her. Stang's "punishment" could have been very effective depending on which side of the coin she fell on. 

From my experience, my ex questioned me frequently after her affair discovery asking if I had one also. She told me she could not stand the thought of me being with another woman. After, I started dating she came to my house to pick up the children and became very upset when she saw empty wine glasses. She used to become very jealous whenever I would speak to another girl. She got very upset once, when I got a lap dance at a strip club (she was aware I was going to the strip club for a bachelor party). This was AFTER unbeknownst to me she had already had sex with another man. 

I have no doubt it mattered to my ex whether I stayed loyal to her despite her utter disloyalty to me. She is a prime example of that. Cheating is full of hypocrisies. The act itself, throwing away your family for some illicit sex, is irrational or if you prefer illogical on it face.


----------



## SadDaisy

What a story.
I am new here and this is the first one that I have read. Impressive.


----------



## Stang197

sparrow555 said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely agree that the kids deserve better than this. I have stopped my crap. Still not sure how I want to move forward though. I absolutely want the best for my kids too. I am not sure if my wife moving them out of state if I divorce or us trying to work it out is better.
> 
> 
> 
> She simply cannot move the kids away from you, leave about a different state.
Click to expand...

Her lawyer has her convinced that she spend every dollar of my 401K for her to use on lawyers in order to take my kids out of state. So basically every dollar I saved for the both to retire would go to her taking my kids away. The lawyer I talked to said fat chance but it would be expensive to fight.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> I was trying to point out the stuff she did to prove her remorsefulness


If you feel that what you did gave you your self respect and self confidence back, as well as having returned the "balance of power" back to normal (so to speak) AND she is truly remorseful, then the ball is in your court to make things better.

What bothers me is that you gave us all examples of what she has outwardly done to show remorse, but yet you also said she wants to come here to give her 'justifications', which is a huge red flag of zero remorse. So my question to you is how do you bridge these inconsistencies? Any WH/WW who says I was wrong to have an affair but I was driven to it has zero remorse.

If she does sign up here, and I pray she doesn't, hearing the justifications should be interesting.


----------



## Stang197

BetrayedDad said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sir, respectfully, if it bothered her she could not do it. She did not want an open marriage simply because she was expecting exactly the violent explosion that occurred when H found out. I agree she wanted to cake eat but it had to be covertly to avoid the explosion.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's agree we are speaking in generalities. That said, she may or may not have cared. We will never know for certain. It did not bother her to cheat clearly but that absolutely does not mean it would not bother her to be cheated on or in this case watch her husband cheat on her. Stang's "punishment" could have been very effective depending on which side of the coin she fell on.
> 
> From my experience, my ex questioned me frequently after her affair discovery asking if I had one also. She told me she could not stand the thought of me being with another woman. After, I started dating she came to my house to pick up the children and became very upset when she saw empty wine glasses. She used to become very jealous whenever I would speak to another girl. She got very upset once, when I got a lap dance at a strip club (she was aware I was going to the strip club for a bachelor party). This was AFTER unbeknownst to me she had already had sex with another man.
> 
> I have no doubt it mattered to my ex whether I stayed loyal to her despite her utter disloyalty to me. She is a prime example of that. Cheating is full of hypocrisies. The act itself, throwing away your family for some illicit sex, is irrational or if you prefer illogical on it face.
Click to expand...

Ya it's amazing how after a wife cheats all of a sudden loyalty is important. These people don't want any consequences.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was trying to point out the stuff she did to prove her remorsefulness
> 
> 
> 
> If you feel that what you did gave you your self respect and self confidence back, as well as having returned the "balance of power" back to normal (so to speak) AND she is truly remorseful, then the ball is in your court to make things better.
> 
> What bothers me is that you gave us all examples of what she has outwardly done to show remorse, but yet you also said she wants to come here to give her 'justifications', which is a huge red flag of zero remorse. So my question to you is how do you bridge these inconsistencies? Any WH/WW who says I was wrong to have an affair but I was driven to it has zero remorse.
> 
> If she does sign up here, and I pray she doesn't, hearing the justifications should be interesting.
Click to expand...

She is signed up and keeping up on this topic. She has been calling me every so often and letting me know where I have neglected to add something from her side. Not sure why she won't post it here herself.


----------



## ConanHub

Stang197 said:


> She hasn't stopped crying about it for 15 months. Not sure if that is because of what she did to me or the potential loss of her life style. So crappy always wondering about someone's motives.


Who knows exactly. She needs to do what you require and if she is reading so many books then they are wrong on one point.

No one made her spread her damn legs for that idiot!

She better figure that shyt out.

She needs to understand how she was flawed enough to do it so she knows what to fix and blame shifting to you not only avoids that but continues to hurt you for her affair.

She needs to get a little smarter about this and a lot more grown up!

Grown ups own their bad choices. Even choices as bad as spreading them for an idiot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

She should also shut the hell up about taking your children out of state.

Remorse my ass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TAMAT

Stang,

Wow, why did you have sex with an ESCORT! Who has sex with hundreds of people and is exposed to who knows how many strains of HPV, Herpes, syphilis s and etc. A virus can get through a condom. 

I hope you abstained from sex with your W for a few months afterward. it's bad enough your W may have been exposed to some deadly disease, your kids don't need both parents gone.

Did you confront the OM and expose him widely.

Tamat


----------



## Stang197

ConanHub said:


> She should also shut the hell up about taking your children out of state.
> 
> Remorse my ass.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree 100%. But that's where the conversation goes every time we fight. She is unemployed and would want to live with her dad.


----------



## Stang197

TAMAT said:


> Stang,
> 
> Wow, why did you have sex with an ESCORT! Who has sex with hundreds of people and is exposed to who knows how many strains of HPV, Herpes, syphilis s and etc. A virus can get through a condom.
> 
> I hope you abstained from sex with your W for a few months afterward. it's bad enough your W may have been exposed to some deadly disease, your kids don't need both parents gone.
> 
> Did you confront the OM and expose him widely.
> 
> Tamat


I exposed him to his wife twice. Once after I found out about the affair and after I pretended to be my wife through email and texting. I was getting information from him and when I was done I let his wife know that he was still willing to talk to her. I don't know who elelse to expose him to but I would in a New York second. I did expose my wife to everyone.


----------



## Stang197

TAMAT said:


> Stang,
> 
> Wow, why did you have sex with an ESCORT!
> Mostly because I felt like I wanted to sleep with someone else immediately.
> Tamat


----------



## TAMAT

Stang,

Easy his facebook, linkedin , parents, grandparents, his adult children, his relatives, his workplace, his place of worship. Full color posters on telephone poles.

There are also wonderful websites like PLAYERBLOCK.com and etc

Tamat


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> She is signed up and keeping up on this topic. She has been calling me every so often and letting me know where I have neglected to add something from her side. Not sure why she won't post it here herself.


I think she has the common sense to realize that we are going to be pretty hard on her, if not brutal .... and you can count on me to be one of those people.

So, please answer my earlier question: Do you really think she is remorseful or just sorry she got caught. The whole justification thing really bothers me.


----------



## ConanHub

Stang197 said:


> I agree 100%. But that's where the conversation goes every time we fight. She is unemployed and would want to live with her dad.


There you have it.

She won't fully own her choice to fvck another man and she is threatening you with further devastation, not that everything will turn out like she plans, in a divorce.

Cheaters are manipulators. She is still trying to manipulate you and is still blame shifting.

She is still being selfish, another trait of cheaters, and doesn't appear to feel bad enough about what she has done to her family to change.

If she were remorseful, she would be ready to accept an amicable divorce with a good outcome for you and her kids because she is the one who stupidly caused all this by not controlling her crotch monster.

She is still placing her desires above what is best for her family.

Speaks worlds right there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

Stang197 said:


> TAMAT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stang,
> 
> Wow, why did you have sex with an ESCORT!
> Mostly because I felt like I wanted to sleep with someone else immediately.
> Tamat
Click to expand...

My reply ended up in the bubble. Whoops.


----------



## sparrow555

How long did the affair go ?


----------



## The Middleman

TAMAT said:


> I hope you abstained from sex with your W for a few months afterward. it's bad enough your W may have been exposed to some deadly disease, your kids don't need both parents gone.


 @Stang197 : And another thing, whatever you do ... don't knock her up! We've seen that technique used here before to keep a BH from leaving.


----------



## Stang197

TAMAT said:


> Stang,
> 
> Easy his facebook, linkedin , parents, grandparents, his adult children, his relatives, his workplace, his place of worship. Full color posters on telephone poles.
> 
> There are also wonderful websites like PLAYERBLOCK.com and etc
> 
> Tamat


He doesn't have a Facebook page that I could find. His daughter was 7at the time. When she is older and if I run into her I would tell her. Don't know if he goes to church. I do know where he works and I do have his bosses email. Not sure what that would accomplish though. The only person I knew was his wife. Who by the way had been cheated on by him numerous times during their 3 year marriage. My wife knows how to pick em.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is signed up and keeping up on this topic. She has been calling me every so often and letting me know where I have neglected to add something from her side. Not sure why she won't post it here herself.
> 
> 
> 
> I think she has the common sense to realize that we are going to be pretty hard on her, if not brutal .... and you can count on me to be one of those people.
> 
> So, please answer my earlier question: Do you really think she is remorseful or just sorry she got caught. The whole justification thing really bothers me.
Click to expand...

I am not sure. Our counselor said that she has never witnessed someone with so much remorse. Whether she is remorseful for what she did to me or if it is absolutely the kids or she is scared of what will happen if we divorce is anyone's guess. She is definitely sorry about something though.


----------



## ConanHub

BTW. I'm really sorry your wife chose to hurt your family like this and everything that has happened.

Nobody should have to go through this pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

ConanHub said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree 100%. But that's where the conversation goes every time we fight. She is unemployed and would want to live with her dad.
> 
> 
> 
> There you have it.
> 
> She won't fully own her choice to fvck another man and she is threatening you with further devastation, not that everything will turn out like she plans, in a divorce.
> 
> Cheaters are manipulators. She is still trying to manipulate you and is still blame shifting.
> 
> She is still being selfish, another trait of cheaters, and doesn't appear to feel bad enough about what she has done to her family to change.
> 
> If she were remorseful, she would be ready to accept an amicable divorce with a good outcome for you and her kids because she is the one who stupidly caused all this by not controlling her crotch monster.
> 
> She is still placing her desires above what is best for her family.
> 
> Speaks worlds right there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

I agree. If I was truly sorry I would suck it up and move heaven and earth to keep the family as close as possible. Not her, she wants the easy way out of everything.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> TAMAT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you abstained from sex with your W for a few months afterward. it's bad enough your W may have been exposed to some deadly disease, your kids don't need both parents gone.
> 
> 
> 
> @Stang197 : And another thing, whatever you do ... don't knock her up! We've seen that technique used here before to keep a BH from leaving.
Click to expand...

Ya that does worry me.


----------



## Stang197

sparrow555 said:


> How long did the affair go ?


From what I can tell about 2 months of a EA that culminated in a ONS. But who knows.


----------



## ConanHub

Stang197 said:


> I am not sure. Our counselor said that she has never witnessed someone with so much remorse. Whether she is remorseful for what she did to me or if it is absolutely the kids or she is scared of what will happen if we divorce is anyone's guess. She is definitely sorry about something though.


Then she needs to process that she needs to fully own her affair as it was fully her decision. You had no choice in what she did.

She also needs to stop being selfish and put her families needs first. Separating you from your kids is not good for you and your kids.

Actions that count my friend. She needs to be willing to do what is necessary not what SHE is willing to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

ConanHub said:


> BTW. I'm really sorry your wife chose to hurt your family like this and everything that has happened.
> 
> Nobody should have to go through this pain.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Life would be better if people would respect families. She messed up 2 families with this stunt. There is on little girl who's family is separated and our 9 year old daughter and special needs son are are the verge of the same fate. Really cute. Just so she would feel sexy.


----------



## TAMAT

Stang,

You wrote, *From what I can tell about 2 months of a EA that culminated in a ONS. But who knows. *

Who knows? you should, what matters is that it is very likely she has not told you the complete truth. Her behavior might not be remorse but fear that the full truth will come out and you will leave her.

One technique is to tell your W that you know there is more to this than she has admitted, and you are will to forgive her if she tells you now. If she says there is nothing more say good I have scheduled a polygraph to make sure.

Waywards almost always minimize if she says it was a ONS it was more like a month.

Tamat


----------



## TAMAT

Stang,

I also advise you to get everything out now so 10 or 20 years from now you don't regret not doing it.

Tamat


----------



## Stang197

TAMAT said:


> Stang,
> 
> You wrote, *From what I can tell about 2 months of a EA that culminated in a ONS. But who knows. *
> 
> Who knows? you should, what matters is that it is very likely she has not told you the complete truth. Her behavior might not be remorse but fear that the full truth will come out and you will leave her.
> 
> One technique is to tell your W that you know there is more to this than she has admitted, and you are will to forgive her if she tells you now. If she says there is nothing more say good I have scheduled a polygraph to make sure.
> 
> Waywards almost always minimize if she says it was a ONS it was more like a month.
> 
> Tamat


I did exactly that. She TT me for a while. The only thing that was revealed was that it was unprotected and there was oral. Like I said I did contact the OM and pretended to be her. I recovered emails that seem to back it up. The emails also revealed that she wanted to stop contact and work on her marriage before she admitted this to me. But I would not be surprised to find out more. If I stay I guess I was just have to live with it.


----------



## Stang197

TAMAT said:


> Stang,
> 
> I also advise you to get everything out now so 10 or 20 years from now you don't regret not doing it.
> 
> Tamat


I think about this all the time. If she stayed faithful from here on, I am not sure how I am going to feel about her.


----------



## Stang197

SadDaisy said:


> What a story.
> I am new here and this is the first one that I have read. Impressive.


I know, I can't believe that this is my life.


----------



## Stang197

Stang197 said:


> SadDaisy said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a story.
> I am new here and this is the first one that I have read. Impressive.
> 
> 
> 
> I know, I can't believe that this is my life.
Click to expand...

Although I am not impressed.


----------



## just got it 55

Stang197 said:


> I hear what everyone is saying. Maybe it makes me a jerk or stupid, maybe not... Who knows. I do know up until she did this I was 100% faithful. Afterwards I thought simply having sex with someone else would make me feel like the score was settled. Nope. Because I paid for it I. I worked out hard,got in the best shape of my life, and concentrated on being really outgoing. When I started seeing women respond it started to get addictive. Really boosted my self esteem. Good or bad that's what happened and that's where I am. The marriage might be to jacked to save. I know. I don't know if later on she is going to flip out. Right now she really wants to fix this. I am done screwing around.


Stang….. Listen young man here is the score
For my money and most of the regulars here, this is the best way to settle the score

First and foremost…..No matter if you want to save your marriage& family or if you want to walk away

You do it with your head held up high

You maintain your integrity and peruse the challenge of being the best man and father you can be.

Now you have added the challenge of regaining you self-respect….Not an easy task

Your honor, never to be regained IMO but strive to that end for the rest of your days.

Live for that

Is has been said by many “The best revenge is a life well lived”

There is no way to fail if you follow that path.

55


----------



## TAMAT

Stang, 

A few more quick thoughts, one of the things which bothers me now 20+ years after my Ws affair with OM-1 is that my W and OM-1 still share secrets and have an intimacy to which I am excluded. Years ago I thought I would get over my Ws affair just by rugsweeping it but it didn't work.

And for exposure another target is the other OW the OMW told you about, inform their Hs or BFs, they might kick the OMs ass for you!

You should also find out who knew about your Ws affair and encouraged or supported it, they no longer have a place in your life as they witnessed an assault on your childrens family and did nothing about it.

Any physical items OM gave your WW have to be destroyed too, if OM sat on your couch burn it in his front yard.

Tamat


----------



## Stang197

TAMAT said:


> Stang,
> 
> A few more quick thoughts, one of the things which bothers me now 20+ years after my Ws affair with OM-1 is that my W and OM-1 still share secrets and have an intimacy to which I am excluded. Years ago I thought I would get over my Ws affair just by rugsweeping it but it didn't work.
> 
> And for exposure another target is the other OW the OMW told you about, inform their Hs or BFs, they might kick the OMs ass for you!
> 
> You should also find out who knew about your Ws affair and encouraged or supported it, they no longer have a place in your life as they witnessed an assault on your childrens family and did nothing about it.
> 
> Any physical items OM gave your WW have to be destroyed too, if OM sat on your couch burn it in his front yard.
> 
> Tamat


Do you regret staying with your wife?


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> Ya that does worry me.


It should scare the living crap out of you. Try to find the story of "Mr. Mathias" and what his so called wife did to him. You'll need new underwear after you read it.


----------



## ConanHub

The Middleman said:


> It should scare the living crap out of you. Try to find the story of "Mr. Mathias" and what his so called wife did to him. You'll need new underwear after you read it.


I thought the baby was her husband's.

I didn't have the stomach to read their whole thread.

Did she have the OMs child?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

TAMAT said:


> Stang,
> 
> A few more quick thoughts, one of the things which bothers me now 20+ years after my Ws affair with OM-1 is that my W and OM-1 still share secrets and have an intimacy to which I am excluded. Years ago I thought I would get over my Ws affair just by rugsweeping it but it didn't work.
> 
> And for exposure another target is the other OW the OMW told you about, inform their Hs or BFs, they might kick the OMs ass for you!
> 
> You should also find out who knew about your Ws affair and encouraged or supported it, they no longer have a place in your life as they witnessed an assault on your childrens family and did nothing about it.
> 
> Any physical items OM gave your WW have to be destroyed too, if OM sat on your couch burn it in his front yard.
> 
> Tamat


The friends that knew where cut out of our lives. I wasn't a good friend with this guy. This was my daughters friends dad. He wasn't at our house (that I know of), and I didn't hang out with him. I only knew him and his wife. Like I said I did tell her. She was completely crushed. They were already separated due to his previous cheating but she was getting ready to move back in. I have not seen her car at his house in a year so i guess that is that.


----------



## The Middleman

ConanHub said:


> I thought the baby was her husband's.
> 
> I didn't have the stomach to read their whole thread.
> 
> Did she have the OMs child?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's Mr. Matt's child by all accounts (but never DNA proven). It was an "hysterical bonding child" due to "birth control failure". Too many people believed that "c0ck and bull" story if you ask me. Mr. Matt was thinking of leaving her because of her physical affair with her (20 YO) student (after being caught in an EA with that same student and he gave her a second chance). She made sure she got knocked up to get him to stay .... he did.

Another poor sap who didn't take the good advice offered here and leave the cheater right away. Now he's stuck with a "wife" that I don't believe he really wants to be married to (IMO).


----------



## drifting on

Clay2013 said:


> It doesn't work that way. She can't just leave the state. You take it to your lawyer and you work it out. There are things you can demand just like she can. Just understand that your going to have to be reasonable or it will come back to burn you.
> 
> Check with a lawyer and see what your laws say about this.
> 
> C




And after what he did what do you think the judge will say????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

drifting on said:


> And after what he did what do you think the judge will say????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not any worse than her fvcking her daughter's friend's dad.

At least he didn't endanger his daughter and another family.

As weird as it was, she agreed to watch him nail a professional.

The EA's are actually very common for a BS. Seen it plenty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Clay2013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't work that way. She can't just leave the state. You take it to your lawyer and you work it out. There are things you can demand just like she can. Just understand that your going to have to be reasonable or it will come back to burn you.
> 
> Check with a lawyer and see what your laws say about this.
> 
> C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And after what he did what do you think the judge will say????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Ya I'm sure the judge would be appalled that I cheated on a cheater. That is horrendous!


----------



## Stang197

Stang197 said:


> drifting on said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clay2013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't work that way. She can't just leave the state. You take it to your lawyer and you work it out. There are things you can demand just like she can. Just understand that your going to have to be reasonable or it will come back to burn you.
> 
> Check with a lawyer and see what your laws say about this.
> 
> C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And after what he did what do you think the judge will say????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya I'm sure the judge would be appalled that I cheated on a cheater. That is horrendous!
Click to expand...

Also I am in a no fault state. So that stuff isn't heard.


----------



## drifting on

ConanHub said:


> Not any worse than her fvcking her daughter's friend's dad.
> 
> At least he didn't endanger his daughter and another family.
> 
> As weird as it was, she agreed to watch him nail a professional.
> 
> The EA's are actually very common for a BS. Seen it plenty.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




What he did will be seen in a different light. Go sit in on a few cases and you will find she will be the number one victim in the world. She will get whatever she asks for including full custody. OP completely weakened his divorce to the point he may as well stay married. Think for a second, how are women treated in a divorce? What kind of alimony will she get as she isn't working? What kind of child support will she get? I'm not agreeing of disagreeing on how he handled himself to heal, but on a divorce he will lose on all accounts. She hid her affair, he took her, do you really think she will say she went willingly? Look at all the crap RO get written, and you think he will be ok because she blinked her daughters dad??? Think again!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

drifting on said:


> What he did will be seen in a different light. Go sit in on a few cases and you will find she will be the number ONS victim in the world. She will get whatever she asks for including full custody. OP completely weakened his divorce to the point he may as well stay married. Think for a second, how are women treated in a divorce? What kind of alimony will she get as she isn't working? What kind of child support will she get? I'm not agreeing of disagreeing on how he handled himself to heal, but on a divorce he will lose on all accounts. She hid her affair, he took her, do you really think she will say she went willingly? Look at all the crap RO get written, and you think he will be ok because she blinked her daughters dad??? Think again!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The prostitute was agreed upon and in the open. Lot of people trying weird things like that in the bedroom these days.

No fault means her affair and his EAs won't be allowed anyway.

If there circumstances or testimonials are allowed for some reason, I bet OMW would be a pretty devastating witness especially with her kid in tow.

Life is not a one way street no matter what conditions exist.

Where there is a will and some cunning, no one gets out of a scrap without wounds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not any worse than her fvcking her daughter's friend's dad.
> 
> At least he didn't endanger his daughter and another family.
> 
> As weird as it was, she agreed to watch him nail a professional.
> 
> The EA's are actually very common for a BS. Seen it plenty.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What he did will be seen in a different light. Go sit in on a few cases and you will find she will be the number ONS victim in the world. She will get whatever she asks for including full custody. OP completely weakened his divorce to the point he may as well stay married. Think for a second, how are women treated in a divorce? What kind of alimony will she get as she isn't working? What kind of child support will she get? I'm not agreeing of disagreeing on how he handled himself to heal, but on a divorce he will lose on all accounts. She hid her affair, he took her, do you really think she will say she went willingly? Look at all the crap RO get written, and you think he will be ok because she blinked her daughters dad??? Think again!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

I really don't think anything either one of us have done anything that would be allowed to be heard. It's pretty cut and dry. I now know why dudes don't get married anymore.


----------



## ConanHub

Stang197 said:


> I really don't think anything either one of us have done anything that would be allowed to be heard. It's pretty cut and dry. I now know why dudes don't get married anymore.


Legal wrangling aside. Your WW is not showing true remorse.

Do you even want to be with her anymore, even if she was fully remorseful?

Just consider you and her. No one else and no financial issues or kids.

Would you still want her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

ConanHub said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't think anything either one of us have done anything that would be allowed to be heard. It's pretty cut and dry. I now know why dudes don't get married anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Legal wrangling aside. Your WW is not showing true remorse.
> 
> Do you even want to be with her anymore, even if she was fully remorseful?
> 
> Just consider you and her. No one else and no financial issues or kids.
> 
> Would you still want her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Your trying to get me in trouble with the WW  I wrestle with this all the time. What I want is my old life back. I think if I can't get back to my old self pretty soon I am done. I do love her and would have taken a bullet for her but this was way too cruel. Now I know how little she would do for me.


----------



## CryingInCali

Hi all, this is Stang197's wife. I didn't want to rain on his parade here, but he invited me to chat on his thread, so here goes. He's right, I have been complaining about some of his posts...not because he didn't acknowledge my "justifications". I don't have any justifications for what I did. I am not blame shifting. I am peeved because he is not painting an accurate picture of himself, me or our marriage, and is getting advice from fellow members based on incomplete/false details. 

Before I get into the details, I'll give a brief history. We've been married for 10 years, together for 12. We have 2 kids. A 9 year old girl, and a 3 year old son with special needs (hearing/speech issues, deformities, probable genetic syndrome which we are in the process of identifying). We moved to California from AZ (away from my family, and close to his) five years ago. I was excited about the move, and love it here. Part of the agreement between us for moving was that I would finish my LVN to RN because of the difference in cost of living, and I wanted to have another child. He was resistant about having another child, because he wanted me to finish school first. That would've been smart. But because I couldn't get into classes on account of being a non-resident student, we decided not to wait on having the kid, with pressure from me, but no gun to his head. 

When we realized our son had issues, it was extremely difficult on myself, and my husband. I became extremely depressed/worried about his future. So depressed, words cannot describe it. I quit work for the first time in my life to help him get ahead and take him to specialist appointments (45 in the first year of his life). To this day he has met all of his developmental milestones, largely in part to my care. This time in our lives is when things started taking a turn for the worst. My husband gave me no support in helping me care for my son. He regularly came home and told me in front of him and our daughter that he never wanted him, and that he wasn't going to help with him. When he did care for him, he was rough and abrupt with him, despite the fact that he had an unknown genetic syndrome and needed extra love and care. I couldn't even go to the grocery store without my son with me, despite my periodic back problems and never having a break from the baby responsibilities, because he refused to watch him. We really started arguing a lot. I felt resentful towards him for his lack of emotional support for me and the baby. He felt resentful that we had the baby. This is when, in my opinion, I began to notice verbal/emotional abuse on his part, though when I look back, it started even before then. For example, he had told me over the recent years that he had "future prospects". He has refused to let me see his phone to the point of tackling me to get it back. He told me, and I quote, "I cringe at the thought of having sex with you". He has asked me when I'm going to lose the baby weight. I have never weighed more than 134 after having a baby, and generally hover in the 118-125 range, and he was at LEAST 35 lbs over weight at the time. He said I wasn't fat, but flabby. He made comments about my stretch marks. He regularly told me that I didn't contribute, used threats/intimidation to get me to stop piping up about my concerns. Told me I was a bad mom. Said other things so heart wrenching I won't even mention them here. Made threats about taking all of our money, threats of emotional withdrawal etc. He tried to control everything about me, and I feel like I couldn't do anything right, at least that's the way I see it. He would say I was emotionally abusive to him. All I can say to that is that years of verbal/emotional abuse and walking on eggshells has a way of making you bitter, defensive, and even crazy feeling.

I really started feeling like he was either A.) having an affair B.) thinking about having an affair C.) Wanted out of the marriage or D.) just plain mean. When stang197 says that I "justify" what I did, he is grossly exaggerating. I do NOT justify it. It was wrong of me to do what I did. There is nothing he did that made me do anything, and I acknowledge that. I am a truly remorseful WS. For over a year I focused on healing him, not our other marriage issues. If I bring anything up, it is because I have read over and over again that we need to work on the issues that make our marriage vulnerable to affairs, and we need to heal it all around if it's going to work. My cheating does not mean that I can NEVER voice my concerns about his treatment of me. His emotional abuse of me is not WHY I did what I did. What I did is NOT excusable just because he wasn't nice to me. But I would be lying if I said, just to appease him, that those things didn't make me vulnerable to the compliments/advances of another man. They did, just as my affair made him vulnerable to having affairs. Did his regular threats of taking everything from me even before this ever happened contribute to me moving out with all the money? YES. And It wasn't all the money. It was a small portion compared to what he had. I moved back in that night and returned everything to the bank, without any guarantees from him that it would work out between us or that he wouldn't take all the money and destroy everything I owned as he threatened. 

What I have done to help the marriage heal is as follows. I instantly gave a no contact letter to the OM. I have read numerous books on healing from infidelity. I got us into church, and marriage counseling instantly. I have opened my email and phone to him without giving him grief, allowed GPS tracking. Then, two months after DDay, he says he wants to get even. I said ok. You all know the story from there. I was all for it because I knew I deserved a divorce, so when he said he wanted to have sex with the "escort" (more like a dirty Tijuana hooker), I honestly thought I got off easy. Those who think that it relieved me of my guilt are way off though. I have had anxiety attacks and cried my eyes out every day for over a year because of the immense pain I caused stang197, and the changes it made to our formerly loving marriage.

Down to some gritty truth about how stang197 has handled this. He claims that he hired the escort and "made" me watch, and had two emotional affairs online. The truth is that he did the escort thing, and then while we were in counseling and supposedly working on the marriage talked with countless women online. That much he admits to. But he has admitted to me that he has (all while "working on the marriage") actually had phone sex with at least ten women. Two of them that I know of because he gave me access to his email wanted to have a relationship with him. One calls him her "guy on the side". One of them, as he mentioned is claiming to be carrying his child, and torments me regularly. He claimed that he never met her or had sex with her. I am not so sure. She tells him she loves him, has made comments about his behavior in bed that indicate she has indeed met him. She offered to let him move in with them to "clear his head". Who would offer some strange man from the internet a place to stay when she has a 12 year old daughter to protect if she never even met the guy? I don't buy it. He almost did move in with her too. He claims that what stopped him was because I told our daughter and it snapped him out of it. Not true. She overheard it, unfortunately. He's the one who gives dirty graphic details about my affair to our daughter. By the way, after I dragged the truth out of him about how many women etc. he has made more verbally abusive comments about the other women being younger, looking younger and better than me. Those comments hurt me soooo much. So not only do I have to deal with my own shame and guilt about what I've done, and be subject to multiple revenge affairs despite my repentance, I also have to hear about how great they were in compared to me? And all the while when I dealt with his verbal bashings about what I did (because I deserved it and was trying to let him get his anger out) he was outside cheating on me! I disagree with anyone who says it's not cheating just because I did it first. He never divorced me. He said he wanted to work on the marriage. He lied so much. I read somewhere on TAM that my breach in the marriage contract doesn't mean that the contract is void, and therefore he is free to do whatever he wants. What he did is a breach as well. I may deserve a divorce for what I did. But so does he!

There are people out there who feel sorry for our kids. I do too. Because, yes, I have made horrible decisions that can affect them the rest of their lives. I have owned up to them though and have been doing everything in my power to become a good wife/mother and regain my integrity. It has been very hard, because I am reminded constantly in one way or another of what a horrible person I am. I am torn between persevering through his revenge for the sake of our family, and to prove my love for him and my remorse, and leaving for the sake of our kids and my sanity. I will say that it has gotten much better lately. He hasn't been verbally abusive to me. He has stopped all the cheating as far as I know. It's obvious that he is now trying, which is why I am still here, and by the way, to all those who say I am not remorseful, the only reason he is still here is because I am and he knows it. I know that the only way it's going to work is if we BOTH continue thinking and behaving in ways that nurture/heal the marriage. Him coming on here and writing an inaccurate account of what's happening just to get kudos from the other BS spouses out there about how he handled it doesn't nurture or heal anything. 

And one last point, I don't want to take the kids away from him. I want to heal the marriage. He has said countless times that he wouldn't even fight for them. He has given me plenty of reason to believe he doesn't want to be there for them. He said if we got divorced he would quit his job to avoid paying child support. If I ever mention leaving to AZ it's not because I want to keep the kids away from him, it's because where we live in CA it's extremely expensive and regardless of what I have done, the kids don't deserve to live in poverty for the rest of their lives just to see someone 50% of the time who in reality has made it clear that he is not that interested in caring for them.


----------



## aine

Stang, sorry you and your WW are in such a mess. I read an ealier post where you said your WW wasn't thankful for the roof over her head, the food in the fridge, all the times you brought her and her family out etc and she had no respect for you.
I am afraid a woman doesn't love a man for what he provides, there is much more to a relationship than that. Minus that did you have anything else in the relationship? I know men are driven to be providers (most) it is in their DNA and whilst a woman can appreciate their provision (there are many women who can do it for themselves). This should not be the basis of a relationship. After reading your WW's post, you have a lot of work to do in meeting her needs, you may say she misinterpreted your actions/words but those are her feelings and you have f***** up big time, no wonder your marriage is in a mess. 

You have probably also lied to us about your involvement with the woman who you were supposed to have got pregnant, you did sleep with her, period. Oh what a tangled web. I would advise your WW to file for divorce and put as much distance between you as possible. 

It is very clear now that you are a mean kind of guy, with your attitude towards your son ( people wouldn't treat the dog like that), telling your young daughter about her mother's affair, your revenge affairs, you need to look long and hard at yourself in the mirror and see yourself for what you really are, a vicious, vindictive and mean human being who is probably a bit of a bully too? You are also a selfish SOB as you do not give a f*** about the damage you do to your daughter or how your words affect your poor son, never mind the emotional abuse of your wife. Many women would have walked out on you a long time ago. You need IC for your issues and a wake up call because it is not all about you!

The actions you have taken since then (sleeping with the escort, the EAs etc) have only compounded the damage. You haven't made any steps to be a better person, (has your WW? I guess not). If anything, affairs/cheating should help people to become better people. You are engaged in getting even. Your actions since then, outweigh anything your wife has done and tbh it is only fair to her and to yourself to put an end to this misery and get a divorce.

I do hope that your actions in having phone sex, PA's EA's etc will bring you some comfort. You had two choices, take the higher road (and be a man of moral fortitude and try and salvage what you had or take the lower road and be the kind of man who I hope your daughter will never come across in her adult life), you chose the lower road. To pretend to be working on the marriage while you do these things makes you the lowest of the low we refer to on this site time and again. You have lost all right to point fingers but yet come to this site to obtain comfort or perhaps justification. There isn't any. It is very clear you yourself have huge issues with resentment and anger and until you sort those out, you will never have a healthy relationship with anyone because resentment is a poison eating away at you.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and in your case you are both blind, I cannot see this working unless you both commit to making it work, you are both totally honest and both seriously committed to heavy counseling. I doubt Stang you are the type of man who has moral backbone for that kind of venture.


----------



## Stang197

aine said:


> Stang, sorry you and your WW are in such a mess. I read an ealier post where you said your WW wasn't thankful for the roof over her head, the food in the fridge, all the times you brought her and her family out etc and she had no respect for you.
> I am afraid a woman doesn't love a man for what he provides, there is much more to a relationship than that. Minus that did you have anything else in the relationship? I know men are driven to be providers (most) it is in their DNA and whilst a woman can appreciate their provision (there are many women who can do it for themselves). This should not be the basis of a relationship. After reading your WW's post, you have a lot of work to do in meeting her needs, you may say she misinterpreted your actions/words but those are her feelings and you have f***** up big time, no wonder your marriage is in a mess.
> 
> It is very clear now that you are a mean kind of guy, with your attitude towards your son ( people wouldn't treat the dog like that), your revenge affairs, you need to look long and hard at yourself in the mirror and see yourself for what you really are, a vicious, vindictive and mean human being who is probably a bit of a bully too? Many women would have walked out on you a long time ago. You need IC for you issues.
> 
> The actions you have taken since then (sleeping with the escort, the EAs etc) have only compounded the damage. You haven't made any steps to be a better person, (has your WW? I guess not). If anything, affairs/cheating should help people to become better people. You are engaged in getting even.
> 
> An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and in your case you are both blind, I cannot see this working unless you both commit to making it work, you are both totally honest and both seriously committed to heavy counseling.


I love my son. I was bitter towards her because she told me either I have another kid or she is going to divorce me. So yes after he was born I wasn't as helpful as I should have been.


----------



## drifting on

From reading stangs posts abuse was the first thing to stand out. Second that stood out was his obvious lies about his EA's. Stang, I hope you take what I'm about to tell you to heart, you need intense therapy. I said you would lose in court, you replied with something like cheating on a cheater, how horrendous. I know children that could respond better. What I don't understand is why your wife stays with you. You came here spinning your tale and I could see through it, I saw the male you are. There's a saying I know that might pertain to you, don't leave your porch if you can't run with the big dogs. Porches are for pups Stang.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gouge_away

GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... is she going to create an account and tell her side of things?
> 
> Usually it's the other way around... the girlfriend/wife starts a thread and then the boyfriend/husband follows afterward.


I started the first thread, my wife followed.


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## GusPolinski

gouge_away said:


> I started the first thread, my wife followed.


Meh.


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## GusPolinski

Geeeeeeeeeezzz you guys are a f*cking mess. I don't even want to quote all that.


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> From reading stangs posts abuse was the first thing to stand out. Second that stood out was his obvious lies about his EA's. Stang, I hope you take what I'm about to tell you to heart, you need intense therapy. I said you would lose in court, you replied with something like cheating on a cheater, how horrendous. I know children that could respond better. What I don't understand is why your wife stays with you. You came here spinning your tale and I could see through it, I saw the male you are. There's a saying I know that might pertain to you, don't leave your porch if you can't run with the big dogs. Porches are for pups Stang.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ya you don't know much. We have gone over all the marriage stuff with our counselor and the abuse went both ways. She has been abusive to me before all of this also. Our counselor agreed that the problems before her affair where 50/50. I am not going to throw my wife under the bus and expose her earlier abuse. And what about threating divorce because I did not feel like we where financial ready for it? Isn't that abusive. You where just looking for a reason to chastise me. You don't know me.


----------



## Stang197

Stang197 said:


> drifting on said:
> 
> 
> 
> From reading stangs posts abuse was the first thing to stand out. Second that stood out was his obvious lies about his EA's. Stang, I hope you take what I'm about to tell you to heart, you need intense therapy. I said you would lose in court, you replied with something like cheating on a cheater, how horrendous. I know children that could respond better. What I don't understand is why your wife stays with you. You came here spinning your tale and I could see through it, I saw the male you are. There's a saying I know that might pertain to you, don't leave your porch if you can't run with the big dogs. Porches are for pups Stang.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> Ya you don't know much. We have gone over all the marriage stuff with our counselor and the abuse went both ways. She has been abusive to me before all of this also. Our counselor agreed that the problems before her affair where 50/50. I am not going to throw my wife under the bus and expose her earlier abuse. And what about threating divorce because I did not feel like we where financial ready for it? Isn't that abusive. You where just looking for a reason to chastise me. You don't know me.
Click to expand...

Financials ready for another kid


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## GusPolinski

Stang197 said:


> Ya you don't know much. We have gone over all the marriage stuff with our counselor and the abuse went both ways. She has been abusive to me before all of this also. Our counselor agreed that the problems before her affair where 50/50. *I am not going to throw my wife under the bus and expose her earlier abuse.* And what about threating divorce because I did not feel like we where financial ready for it? Isn't that abusive. You where just looking for a reason to chastise me. You don't know me.


LOL... why not? Isn't that why the two of you are here?

After all, she just hit you w/ a double-decker!

And you know what? You're correct -- there's no "justifying" an affair.

And that goes for hers AND _yours_.


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## drifting on

Stang

With all due respect I do know you, I deal with your type all the time. You say I'm just looking to chastise you, I assure you I'm not. You did that on your own by coming here telling everyone how bad your wife was. Almost ten pages or so of how disgusting it is that she had an affair. And you sit there smugly about your terrible wife when you have had more affairs then her. 

No Stang, you dug that hole on your own, and so you now say I was just looking to chastise you. How about you be honest, admit your wrongdoings, admit that you lied to everyone here. No, I didn't chastise you, I spoke the truth. Your nothing but an abuser, one who lies (shocking), one who is insecure (horrendous), one I'd put in his place without barely an effort. 

So the real picture here, you both have torched this marriage. Beyond repair? In my mind yes. I'm not really sure either of you should have gotten married. One could question whether either of you actually loved, respected, or committed to each other. In my opinion, divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

GusPolinski said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya you don't know much. We have gone over all the marriage stuff with our counselor and the abuse went both ways. She has been abusive to me before all of this also. Our counselor agreed that the problems before her affair where 50/50. *I am not going to throw my wife under the bus and expose her earlier abuse.* And what about threating divorce because I did not feel like we where financial ready for it? Isn't that abusive. You where just looking for a reason to chastise me. You don't know me.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL... why not? Isn't that why the two of you are here?
> 
> After all, she just hit you w/ a double-decker!
> 
> And you know what? You're correct -- there's no "justifying" an affair.
> 
> And that goes for hers AND _yours_.
Click to expand...

Well I think what ever behavior I post regarding her behavior before I found out about the affair will just be countered by her with something I did. I can tell the mean things that I said to her where about the time she was knee deep in the EA portion of her relationship. I felt something was seriously wrong. I did tell her I didn't want to have sex with her because she was not being nice at that time. I told her I had other prospects because I felt like maybe it would shock her into thinking I was about to walk and maybe she would be more cordial. At this time she was being really cold. As far as what I said about our kid I was bitter about being forced to have him, we were both depressed about his issues, but I agree that I should not have said it. I should not have said any of it. Of everything I regret it's these things. This is what I have been working on. I think she would admit that I have seriously changed the I communicate. We have both treated each other poorly. I own my crappy treatment of her. She still does not own her crappy treatment of me pre affair.


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang
> 
> With all due respect I do know you, I deal with your type all the time. You say I'm just looking to chastise you, I assure you I'm not. You did that on your own by coming here telling everyone how bad your wife was. Almost ten pages or so of how disgusting it is that she had an affair. And you sit there smugly about your terrible wife when you have had more affairs then her.
> 
> No Stang, you dug that hole on your own, and so you now say I was just looking to chastise you. How about you be honest, admit your wrongdoings, admit that you lied to everyone here. No, I didn't chastise you, I spoke the truth. Your nothing but an abuser, one who lies (shocking), one who is insecure (horrendous), one I'd put in his place without barely an effort.
> 
> So the real picture here, you both have torched this marriage. Beyond repair? In my mind yes. I'm not really sure either of you should have gotten married. One could question whether either of you actually loved, respected, or committed to each other. In my opinion, divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What did I lie about?


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang
> 
> With all due respect I do know you, I deal with your type all the time. You say I'm just looking to chastise you, I assure you I'm not. You did that on your own by coming here telling everyone how bad your wife was. Almost ten pages or so of how disgusting it is that she had an affair. And you sit there smugly about your terrible wife when you have had more affairs then her.
> 
> No Stang, you dug that hole on your own, and so you now say I was just looking to chastise you. How about you be honest, admit your wrongdoings, admit that you lied to everyone here. No, I didn't chastise you, I spoke the truth. Your nothing but an abuser, one who lies (shocking), one who is insecure (horrendous), one I'd put in his place without barely an effort.
> 
> So the real picture here, you both have torched this marriage. Beyond repair? In my mind yes. I'm not really sure either of you should have gotten married. One could question whether either of you actually loved, respected, or committed to each other. In my opinion, divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Smugly?? I simply put in text what has happened in my marriage. I guess it might look smug to you but I am hardly smug. I am incredibly sad about this situation.


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> What did I lie about?


How many EA's? 
Phone sex? 
What did your wife say, is that true? Read her post, you've done far more then her but you admitted to two EA's, how many really?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> Smugly?? I simply put in text what has happened in my marriage. I guess it might look smug to you but I am hardly smug. I am incredibly sad about this situation.




I sincerely hope so, I agree it is sad. And yes I perceived your posts as being smug.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang
> 
> With all due respect I do know you, I deal with your type all the time. You say I'm just looking to chastise you, I assure you I'm not. You did that on your own by coming here telling everyone how bad your wife was. Almost ten pages or so of how disgusting it is that she had an affair. And you sit there smugly about your terrible wife when you have had more affairs then her.
> 
> No Stang, you dug that hole on your own, and so you now say I was just looking to chastise you. How about you be honest, admit your wrongdoings, admit that you lied to everyone here. No, I didn't chastise you, I spoke the truth. Your nothing but an abuser, one who lies (shocking), one who is insecure (horrendous), one I'd put in his place without barely an effort.
> 
> So the real picture here, you both have torched this marriage. Beyond repair? In my mind yes. I'm not really sure either of you should have gotten married. One could question whether either of you actually loved, respected, or committed to each other. In my opinion, divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Also I have never said that my wife was terrible.


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did I lie about?
> 
> 
> 
> How many EA's?
> Phone sex?
> What did your wife say, is that true? Read her post, you've done far more then her but you admitted to two EA's, how many really?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

If you read what I wrote, I said I talked to countless women. Actual EA's. Honestly one. But there was another woman that was headed in that direction. That's why I said 2. All of the other girls were not serious enough to remember. Ya I did phone sex with some. Didn't lie able anything though. We have been through so much and I am doing this on my phone so it was a little abrieviated. Also I invited my wife from the beginning if she felt something was missing. Why would I lie when she is reading it???


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> Also I have never said that my wife was terrible.



No, that was the picture you were trying to paint. What you wanted everyone to see. Many posters were taking your side with exception to having your wife watch you with an escort. But your wife came and pretty much changed the picture you painted. What's the real truth here? How many affairs have you had? Forget about pre affair, I'm talking about after.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Smugly?? I simply put in text what has happened in my marriage. I guess it might look smug to you but I am hardly smug. I am incredibly sad about this situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sincerely hope so, I agree it is sad. And yes I perceived your posts as being smug.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

My wife said it sounds smug too so maybe it's the way I come off  Trust me though, I am on the verge of a break down every waking moment and usually when I am sleeping too.


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also I have never said that my wife was terrible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that was the picture you were trying to paint. What you wanted everyone to see. Many posters were taking your side with exception to having your wife watch you with an escort. But your wife came and pretty much changed the picture you painted. What's the real truth here? How many affairs have you had? Forget about pre affair, I'm talking about after.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Like I said... One escort, 1 pretty serious EA, and one that was developing. I did talk to tons of women though.


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> If you read what I wrote, I said I talked to countless women. Actual EA's. Honestly one. But there was another woman that was headed in that direction. That's why I said 2. All of the other girls were not serious enough to remember. Ya I did phone sex with some. Didn't lie able anything though. We have been through so much and I am doing this on my phone so it was a little abrieviated. Also I invited my wife from the beginning if she felt something was missing. Why would I lie when she is reading it???




Why not admit the phone sex from the beginning? It's lying by omission, nothing was said about phone sex until your wife posted. Was this before or after the escort? How many revenge affairs make you both even? Do you see what I'm saying here, you were both toxic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also I have never said that my wife was terrible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that was the picture you were trying to paint. What you wanted everyone to see. Many posters were taking your side with exception to having your wife watch you with an escort. But your wife came and pretty much changed the picture you painted. What's the real truth here? How many affairs have you had? Forget about pre affair, I'm talking about after.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Also I was not painting a picture. I simply stated what happened from my point of view with my wife reading everything. I invited her the whole way to jump in. Didn't hide anything or purposefully mislead anyone.


----------



## The Middleman

drifting on said:


> How many EA's?
> Phone sex?
> What did your wife say, is that true? Read her post, you've done far more then her but you admitted to two EA's, how many really?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In the end, no matter what he did, none of it would have happen if she didn't have the affair. And let's call it what it really is, she fvck another guy unprotected and brought it home to Stang; that's his mind movie. If she didn't fvck up, none of what Stang did wold have happened. 

Also, notice how she glossed over the affair, the cause of all the pain. Sorry but she is a typical cheater. No Stang is no bargain, but the blame is with her.


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> My wife said it sounds smug too so maybe it's the way I come off  Trust me though, I am on the verge of a break down every waking moment and usually when I am sleeping too.




Yeah, I've been there, I sat at my kitchen table with my weapon tucked under my chin, barrel pressed up to my Adam's apple, only when I squeezed the trigger the weapon jammed. I've felt you pain, so has almost everyone here. Each of us has our path to take, and along that path is incredible pain and self reflecting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you read what I wrote, I said I talked to countless women. Actual EA's. Honestly one. But there was another woman that was headed in that direction. That's why I said 2. All of the other girls were not serious enough to remember. Ya I did phone sex with some. Didn't lie able anything though. We have been through so much and I am doing this on my phone so it was a little abrieviated. Also I invited my wife from the beginning if she felt something was missing. Why would I lie when she is reading it???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not admit the phone sex from the beginning? It's lying by omission, nothing was said about phone sex until your wife posted. Was this before or after the escort? How many revenge affairs make you both even? Do you see what I'm saying here, you were both toxic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

The escort was before everything else. I guess the phone sex didn't stand out for me. It did for my wife though, but she could have stated that at any point.


----------



## drifting on

The Middleman said:


> In the end, no matter what he did, none of it would have happen if she didn't have the affair. And let's call it what it really is, she fvck another guy unprotected and brought it home to Stang; that's his mind movie. If she didn't fvck up, none of what Stang did wold have happened.
> 
> Also, notice how she glossed over the affair, the cause of all the pain. Sorry but she is a typical cheater. No Stang is no bargain, but the blame is with her.



They're both cheaters, and Stang glossed over and even omitted his phone sex with women along with having his wife watch him with an escort. They're both wrong, they both coped poorly, and to say Stang would not have cheated if she didn't first, I'm not so sure of that. Both have displayed poor boundaries at best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My wife said it sounds smug too so maybe it's the way I come off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust me though, I am on the verge of a break down every waking moment and usually when I am sleeping too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I've been there, I sat at my kitchen table with my weapon tucked under my chin, barrel pressed up to my Adam's apple, only when I squeezed the trigger the weapon jammed. I've felt you pain, so has almost everyone here. Each of us has our path to take, and along that path is incredible pain and self reflecting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

I was in a mental institution for 2 days on suicide watch. This has been devastating for me. I didn't care while I was pulling my crap. I guess I was trying to stop the pain. Not sure. Not smug for sure.


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> The escort was before everything else. I guess the phone sex didn't stand out for me. It did for my wife though, but she could have stated that at any point.




How would you feel if she did that? Would it bother you? Would you have made her watch you have phone sex with a woman if she did it? Come on Stang, I'm not three years old.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> The Middleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, no matter what he did, none of it would have happen if she didn't have the affair. And let's call it what it really is, she fvck another guy unprotected and brought it home to Stang; that's his mind movie. If she didn't fvck up, none of what Stang did wold have happened.
> 
> Also, notice how she glossed over the affair, the cause of all the pain. Sorry but she is a typical cheater. No Stang is no bargain, but the blame is with her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're both cheaters, and Stang glossed over and even omitted his phone sex with women along with having his wife watch him with an escort. They're both wrong, they both coped poorly, and to say Stang would not have cheated if she didn't first, I'm not so sure of that. Both have displayed poor boundaries at best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

I was 100% faithful before this.


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The escort was before everything else. I guess the phone sex didn't stand out for me. It did for my wife though, but she could have stated that at any point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would you feel if she did that? Would it bother you? Would you have made her watch you have phone sex with a woman if she did it? Come on Stang, I'm not three years old.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

She sent naked pics out. I saw them.


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> I was in a mental institution for 2 days on suicide watch. This has been devastating for me. I didn't care while I was pulling my crap. I guess I was trying to stop the pain. Not sure. Not smug for sure.




Ok, you're not smug, so we felt the same pain, we have had similar thoughts. Death to me was the only way to end the pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> She sent naked pics out. I saw them.



Not the same as phone sex. Sending a picture is far different then phone sex. Sending a picture is still wrong though so don't think I am condoning that behavior. The fact is you both cheated. You were faithful with infidelity but you were both poor spouses. Poor with coping skills, poor with communication. Resentment built up and suddenly vows and morals were thrown out the window. My point is you both screwed up in more then one way. Sorry no pun intended. But your marriage is in shambles because of both of your actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The escort was before everything else. I guess the phone sex didn't stand out for me. It did for my wife though, but she could have stated that at any point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would you feel if she did that? Would it bother you? Would you have made her watch you have phone sex with a woman if she did it? Come on Stang, I'm not three years old.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Also one the point of leaving stuff out.... She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion". Does that make her a liar? Sounds like an abuser to me.


----------



## drifting on

Stang I have to leave for now but I will PM you tomorrow. The point you need to see is you both need to own your actions. You both need to communicate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bibi1031

Stang197 said:


> Ya I'm sure the judge would be appalled that I cheated on a cheater. That is horrendous!





Stang197 said:


> Ya you don't know much. We have gone over all the marriage stuff with our counselor and the abuse went both ways. She has been abusive to me before all of this also. Our counselor agreed that the problems before her affair where 50/50. I am not going to throw my wife under the bus and expose her earlier abuse. And what about threating divorce because I did not feel like we where financial ready for it? Isn't that abusive. You where just looking for a reason to chastise me. You don't know me.



I know a thing or two about abuse too. I agree you are most certainly a dysfunctional couple. 

Can you leave those differences aside? Is there still love for one another, or has that been poisoned too?

What's the point of saving this nuclear family? You've already set off the atomic bomb.

It's just a crazy circus of muck slinging in all directions with your poor babies in the center of the ring...how sad.


----------



## The Middleman

drifting on said:


> They're both cheaters, and Stang glossed over and even omitted his phone sex with women along with having his wife watch him with an escort. They're both wrong, they both coped poorly, and to say Stang would not have cheated if she didn't first, I'm not so sure of that. Both have displayed poor boundaries at best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In her post she went into great detail about everything wrong with Stang and great detail about his transgressions along with all his faults, painting him as some sort of demon. What did she tell us about her crime? "I had an affair". Nothing about the details of the EA, how it started with the OM, the sneaking around, never acknowledged the unprotected sex or the other things causing Stang's mind movies. All this bullsh!t starts with her affair. 

She white washed all the evil she did by only acknowledging that she had an affair and then dropped the subject. Then proceeded to rip her husband for his reaction. She created the Stang monster you see here.

Also, you don't know if Stang would have cheated eventually even if is wife didn't have an affair; that's just pure speculation. What we do know as fact is that CryinginCali (a BS screen name created to invoke sympathy) brought Stang home a cream pie. Another thing we know is that all cheaters lie and therefore we can't take anything she says at face value because she is a cheater.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> She sent naked pics out. I saw them.


Another fact she neglected to mention in her epic post. I hope you showed them to her parents so they can be proud of her.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She sent naked pics out. I saw them.
> 
> 
> 
> Another fact she neglected to mention in her epic post. I hope you showed them to her parents so they can be proud of her.
Click to expand...

Did not do that. I don't think at this point it would matter.


----------



## GusPolinski

The Middleman said:


> Another fact she neglected to mention in her epic post. I hope you showed them to her parents so they can be proud of her.


Dude. Damn.

Do you have ANY skin on your knuckles?



Stang197 said:


> Did not do that. I don't think at this point it would matter.


Oh it'd "matter" alright. And not in a good way.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> Did not do that. I don't think at this point it would matter.


That was sarcasm on my part.


----------



## The Middleman

GusPolinski said:


> Dude. Damn.
> 
> Do you have ANY skin on your knuckles?
> 
> Oh it'd "matter" alright. And not in a good way.


Actually, if done at the time of initial exposure I think it would have gone a long way in creating shame and showing her parents how low their daughter can get. If you feel differently, please tell me why?


----------



## CryingInCali

The Middleman said:


> drifting on said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many EA's?
> Phone sex?
> What did your wife say, is that true? Read her post, you've done far more then her but you admitted to two EA's, how many really?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, no matter what he did, none of it would have happen if she didn't have the affair. And let's call it what it really is, she fvck another guy unprotected and brought it home to Stang; that's his mind movie. If she didn't fvck up, none of what Stang did wold have happened.
> 
> Also, notice how she glossed over the affair, the cause of all the pain. Sorry but she is a typical cheater. No Stang is no bargain, but the blame is with her.
Click to expand...

I didn't gloss over anything. My husband laid out the entire story about my affair in his posts. Repeating the details was unnecessary. I admitted to being the cause of his immense pain and said I have been crying and having anxiety attacks over for over a year because of how my actions hurt him and changed the marriage. I even admitted that I deserved his payback or a divorce. I do believe that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for my actions.


----------



## GusPolinski

The Middleman said:


> Actually, if done at the time of initial exposure I think it would have gone a long way in creating shame and showing her parents how low their daughter can get. If you feel differently, please tell me why?


Are you insane?


----------



## The Middleman

CryingInCali said:


> I didn't gloss over anything.
> 
> *Let's agree to disagree on that one because.... *
> 
> My husband laid out the entire story about my affair in his posts. Repeating the details was unnecessary.
> 
> *.... It's easier when someone else does it for you and harder when you have to do it yourself. You glossed over it because you didn't address it.*
> 
> I admitted to being the cause of his immense pain and said I have been crying and having anxiety attacks over for over a year because of how my actions hurt him and changed the marriage. I even admitted that I deserved his payback or a divorce. I do believe that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for my actions.
> 
> *This we can agree on.*


----------



## The Middleman

GusPolinski said:


> Are you insane?


Just answer the question.


----------



## Bibi1031

CryingInCali said:


> I didn't gloss over anything. My husband laid out the entire story about my affair in his posts. Repeating the details was unnecessary. I admitted to being the cause of his immense pain and said I have been crying and having anxiety attacks over for over a year because of how my actions hurt him and changed the marriage. I even admitted that I deserved his payback or a divorce. I do believe that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for my actions.



What is it that you want now?

The affair happened, his reaction to it happened too. You have cried me a river for very long. How much more humiliation and suffering can you both keep on taking to finally get over this mess and start healing?

What do you two hope to accomplish by continuing here what you have IRL?

Can you talk without hurting each other? Is that even possible between you two at this point? Is either one of you happy or is it hell?

What about your kids? How are they taking this? Are they acting out in some way?

This thread has been exhausting and I haven't endured your months of hell.

(((Hugs)))) to both of you...your lives are crazy painful

Bibi


----------



## GusPolinski

CryingInCali said:


> I didn't gloss over anything. My husband laid out the entire story about my affair in his posts. Repeating the details was unnecessary. I admitted to being the cause of his immense pain and said I have been crying and having anxiety attacks over for over a year because of how my actions hurt him and changed the marriage. I even admitted that I deserved his payback or a divorce. I do believe that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for my actions.


Any morality that is dependent upon the integrity of others isn't true morality.

Your husband did what he did for the same reason that you did what you did -- because he WANTED to do it.

Your husband had choices to make, and he made them. On his own. Of his own accord. And using his own reactionary "morality" as his guide.

Fully own your transgressions and insist that he do the same. Anything less falls far short of the reconciliation and example that your children deserve.

If the two of you can't do that, give your children the gift of a divorce, and work to make it as amicable as possible.


----------



## Stang197

Bibi1031 said:


> CryingInCali said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't gloss over anything. My husband laid out the entire story about my affair in his posts. Repeating the details was unnecessary. I admitted to being the cause of his immense pain and said I have been crying and having anxiety attacks over for over a year because of how my actions hurt him and changed the marriage. I even admitted that I deserved his payback or a divorce. I do believe that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for my actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is it that you want now?
> 
> The affair happened, his reaction to it happened too. You have cried me a river for very long. How much more humiliation and suffering can you both keep on taking to finally get over this mess and start healing?
> 
> What do you two hope to accomplish by continuing here what you have IRL?
> 
> Can you talk without hurting each other? Is that even possible between you two at this point? Is either one of you happy or is it hell?
> 
> What about your kids? How are they taking this? Are they acting out in some way?
> 
> This thread has been exhausting and I haven't endured your months of hell.
> 
> (((Hugs)))) to both of you...your lives are crazy painful
> 
> Bibi
Click to expand...

Not sure what I want. Well yes I am. I want this to be a bad dream that I can wake up from. Yes it has been he'll for 15 months. Our daughter is acting ok. I think this has seriously scared her. She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.


----------



## Stang197

GusPolinski said:


> CryingInCali said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't gloss over anything. My husband laid out the entire story about my affair in his posts. Repeating the details was unnecessary. I admitted to being the cause of his immense pain and said I have been crying and having anxiety attacks over for over a year because of how my actions hurt him and changed the marriage. I even admitted that I deserved his payback or a divorce. I do believe that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for my actions.
> 
> 
> 
> Any morality that is dependent upon the integrity of others isn't true morality.
> 
> Your husband did what he did for the same reason that you did what you did -- because he WANTED to do it.
> 
> Your husband had choices to make, and he made them. On his own. Of his own accord. And using his own reactionary "morality" as his guide.
> 
> Fully own your transgressions and insist that he do the same. Anything less falls far short of the reconciliation and example that your children deserve.
> 
> If the two of you can't do that, give your children the gift of a divorce, and work to make it as amicable as possible.
Click to expand...

I definitely think your right.


----------



## GusPolinski

The Middleman said:


> Just answer the question.


Honestly, I feel like I shouldn't have to qualify my statements. Call me naive, but it seems like someone who ISN'T completely batsh*t f*cking crazy would be able to come up with plenty of reasons WHY a BH sending naked pics of his WW to her parents would be an absolutely horrible idea.

But just in case anyone needs help w/ this...

Irreparable damage to the marriage
Irreparable damage to the in-law relationship
Collateral damage to children 

Oh, and my favorite...

"Your honor, the respondent sent naked photographs of my client to her parents..."

Dude.

Seriously.

Every word that you that you type in defense of this ludicrous idea does nothing more that erode any credibility that you have here.


----------



## GusPolinski

Stang197 said:


> I definitely think your right.


Stick around.

It's a running theme.


----------



## CryingInCali

The Middleman said:


> drifting on said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're both cheaters, and Stang glossed over and even omitted his phone sex with women along with having his wife watch him with an escort. They're both wrong, they both coped poorly, and to say Stang would not have cheated if she didn't first, I'm not so sure of that. Both have displayed poor boundaries at best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> In her post she went into great detail about everything wrong with Stang and great detail about his transgressions along with all his faults, painting him as some sort of demon. What did she tell us about her crime? "I had an affair". Nothing about the details of the EA, how it started with the OM, the sneaking around, never acknowledged the unprotected sex or the other things causing Stang's mind movies. All this bullsh!t starts with her affair.
> 
> She white washed all the evil she did by only acknowledging that she had an affair and then dropped the subject. Then proceeded to rip her husband for his reaction. She created the Stang monster you see here.
> 
> Also, you don't know if Stang would have cheated eventually even if is wife didn't have an affair; that's just pure speculation. What we do know as fact is that CryinginCali (a BS screen name created to invoke sympathy) brought Stang home a cream pie. Another thing we know is that all cheaters lie and therefore we can't take anything she says at face value because she is a cheater.
Click to expand...

I went into detail about what was "wrong with stang" not because I want to paint him as a demon, but because he's coming on here and misleading people about things, and because he invited me. Before I posted he was trying to demonize me and he minimized my very real shame and guilt and everything I have been doing to heal our marriage. Because of that he isn't getting responses based on truth, just the truth as he told it. And I don't even in our home, rip him for his reactions. I know the kind of pain he's been in and have stayed by his side throughout and we are trying to work through it. But even us former WS's have feelings and I vented a little about the fact that I still think he's lying to me about his revenge affairs. So what. I also think it's wrong to minimize the pain that years of emotional abuse can have on someone and he's always denying it and minimizing it. At least I acknowledge that what I did caused him immense pain. How are we ever going to heal if he won't own up his stuff too?


----------



## Bibi1031

Stang197 said:


> Not sure what I want. Well yes I am. I want this to be a bad dream that I can wake up from. Yes it has been he'll for 15 months. Our daughter is acting ok. I think this has seriously scared her. She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.


You can NOT turn back time Stang...what's done is done. 

Your daughter is far from ok. She is blaming herself for the destruction of her family. A lot of children from broken homes feel this way. Send her to counseling. This can really mess her up. You two are too blinded by pain or anger that you can't see the damage you are causing that poor baby. If you can't be an adult for you right now, be one for those innocent children you two have. They need a stable place to call home whether their parents live together or apart. 15 months is too long to live the way you two have been living.

Time to come back to reality Stang...you will never have what you lost, but you can build something new and a healthier better place for your kids to live in. 

Don't be selfish, you can walk away from this mess; your poor little girl is stuck with two crazy parents.


----------



## The Middleman

GusPolinski said:


> Every word that you that you type in defense of this ludicrous idea does nothing more that erode any credibility that you have here.


I'll admit there was a certain amount of sarcasm when I initially said it but I do believe there is value to it. 

I would have printed them out and in the middle of telling them what their darling daughter did, I would have thrown them on the table and said "Here, this is what your daughter did to me." Far more effective and cleaner than a revenge affair IMO.

If I remember this correctly, a few years ago there was a thread here by Devastated Dad. He had an audio of his cheating wife having sex with her POSOM. During exposure to his in laws, he played them the audio. I thought that was very effective for him.

As far as my credibility goes here, I don't give a rats ass. Ideas go on the table for what they are.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Stang is so vengeful that he will hurt the mother of his children so that he can try to satisfy his vengeance. *What is despicable is that he will hurt his own children to try and satisfy his vengeance and hatred.*

Stang will probably try and put a spin on the facts but he has hurt his children to feed his disgusting weakness.

Here below are some of Stang’s own words:



> By Stang
> I love my son. I was bitter towards her because she told me either I have another kid or she is going to divorce me. So yes after he was born *I wasn't as helpful as I should have been.*


Talk about TT and trying to put a spin on his own actions; Stang was bitter and resented the child. Just read CryinginCali’s post about how much Stang helped the child.



> By Stang
> As far as what I said about our kid I was bitter about being forced to have him.


*Again, Stang is more concerned about his bitterness than his child.*








Stang’s wife cryinginCali said:



> My husband gave me no support in helping me care for my son. *He regularly came home and told me in front of him and our daughter that he never wanted him,* and that he wasn't going to help with him
> 
> He felt resentful that we had the baby.
> 
> He's the one who *gives dirty graphic details about my affair to our daughter.*
> 
> He said if we got divorced he would* quit his job to avoid paying child support*




Stang, I am a BS and I know the hurt that a wife can give when she betrays the whole family. What your wife did was extreme selfishness and evil but she will pay a HUGE price for years and maybe for the rest of her life. Right now Stang you are worse than she is. You are a child molester, that is right, you have emotionally molested the emotions of your children. *Telling your children that you did not want them, giving dirty graphic details about your wife’s affair to your daughter, and will not support your children if you get divorced is beyond words of disgust! *


You need to spend the rest of your life making up to your children what you have done. *I would suggest that the first thing that you do is to get a LOT OF HELP so that you can get your bitterness, hate, and vengeance out of your soul.* You are in real deep so RUN to every person, place, or thing that can help you. Even if the first one or two do not help then keep going. I know you have a lot of aggressiveness because you have shown tons of aggressiveness and activity along with your destructive tongue in spewing your vengeance on your wife even though it hurts your own children. Your biggest decision is not to divorce your wife it is for you to get the poison out of your soul. Your whole being is going to pay a huge price if you hold on to your vengeance and hate. You better find some one that can lead you in the right direction because you have no wisdom and you are acting like a complete loser. You are not capable to get out of your own prison.

Do not try and give us any crap about how you are staying in the marriage for the children; you have already proven that you will choose your malevolence over your children. I would not doubt that your wife would be better off without you if you do not change. You are bitter poison!

You are too weak to get out of your vengeance so at least be smart enough to get the right help. You know how to do that so do not try and make excuses.

At this point you and your wife have done a lot of damage but at least your wife is now remorseful and trying to make up for her disgusting actions in the past. You need to get humble and ask God for help and everyone else. Even if you both decide that you are going to try and get passed both of your evils you cannot do that by yourself; you are both in way too deep at this point. Way too much damage!

I have seen some terrible marriages put back together to have a decent life and you can also. However, you are going to have to do a 180 and I am not talking about the 180 on Tam, although that is a very good plan. The 180 I am talking about is for you to have a good talk with yourself and* stop focusing on how bad your wife did you and start fixing yourself!* That is the first step. Your wife will have to mostly fix herself with the right help. *You cannot fix her so do not harm her anymore so that your children will have a chance at getting better.*

Your young daughter has shown much more wisdom that you have by what she said. You said she said:
*She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.*

Yes the children always feel it is their fault that their whole world is crashing. *A child’s emotional health is in the hands of their parents* until they get a lot older and even then the parents play a part.

So now Stang you have another choice. *Are you going to do what is right for your children or are you going to put your bitterness and vengeance ahead of your children?*


----------



## drifting on

Wow, I'm sitting here in disbelief over intentional destruction that I'm reading in these posts. Middleman, I am complete disbelief over the fact you would send nude pictures of someone to their parents. That's below any cheating she has done. As for abuse, it doesn't happen overnight, it takes time. So well before her affair he was abusive. See mr. Blunts post above. He was abusive about his son, why don't you support Stang on that. Maybe next you'll tell Stang to show the pictures to his daughter, after all he tells her the graphic details. Grow up middleman and think like an adult.

Stang you were abusive, so your marriage wasn't Lilly white before your wife's cheating. This does not excuse her behavior or actions, her action should have been to divorce you. Telling your daughter graphic details of the affair is what I consider child abuse. But like all cheaters you are as fake as they come. You have easily left things out of your story to make you look better. But don't worry, middleman will support whatever you do. Basically the way I see what has happened is you were abusive, your wife retaliated with an affair, you then talked to numerous women had 1 EA and phone sex. But that wasn't enough so you had your wife watch you have sex with an escort. Then you do the ultimate sin, you say you will quit your job to avoid paying child support. Yeah, your right, shove your incompetency down your kids throats, they can chew on that for food. 

Middleman read this, both are wrong, both terminated the marriage in the worst of ways, and both need to grow up and care for their children. What's done is water under the bridge, neither can go back and change anything. The best these two can do is have an amicable divorce for the sake of the children. Stop slinging the mud, be an adult, and give advice about how to care for the children. That's what is sad, even more sad then your sorry answer of sending the pictures to her parents. Great advice by the way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

The Middleman said:


> I'll admit there was a certain amount of sarcasm when I initially said it but I do believe there is value to it.
> 
> I would have printed them out and in the middle of telling them what their darling daughter did, I would have thrown them on the table and said "Here, this is what your daughter did to me." Far more effective and cleaner than a revenge affair IMO.
> 
> If I remember this correctly, a few years ago there was a thread here by Devastated Dad. He had an audio of his cheating wife having sex with her POSOM. During exposure to his in laws, he played them the audio. I thought that was very effective for him.


There is a huge difference between simply blitzing a WW's parents w/ nude photos of their daughter and the following scenario...

BH: "Your daughter has been cheating on me."

In-laws: "We don't believe you."

BH: "I have proof."

In-laws: "We'd like to see it."

BH: "Uhhh... are you sure? It's pretty explicit stuff. I'm talking about e-mails/texts/audio/video/photos."

In-laws: "Yes, we'd like to see it."

BH: "OK... Just remember -- you insisted."

And besides, if a BH is forced to go to these lengths in order to see shame, remorse, or whatever in his WW, is there really any point?



The Middleman said:


> As far as my credibility goes here, I don't give a rats ass.


This is becoming more and more obvious.



The Middleman said:


> Ideas go on the table for what they are.



And this one is crap.


----------



## sparrow555

CryingInCali said:


> I didn't gloss over anything. My husband laid out the entire story about my affair in his posts. Repeating the details was unnecessary. I admitted to being the cause of his immense pain and said I have been crying and having anxiety attacks over for over a year because of how my actions hurt him and changed the marriage. I even admitted that I deserved his payback or a divorce. I do believe that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for my actions.


Tell us about the affair from your POV then.


----------



## The Middleman

sparrow555 said:


> Tell us about the affair from your POV then.


I doubt it's going to happen.


----------



## Stang197

Mr Blunt said:


> Stang is so vengeful that he will hurt the mother of his children so that he can try to satisfy his vengeance. *What is despicable is that he will hurt his own children to try and satisfy his vengeance and hatred.*
> 
> Stang will probably try and put a spin on the facts but he has hurt his children to feed his disgusting weakness.
> 
> Here below are some of Stang’s own words:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Stang
> I love my son. I was bitter towards her because she told me either I have another kid or she is going to divorce me. So yes after he was born *I wasn't as helpful as I should have been.*
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about TT and trying to put a spin on his own actions; Stang was bitter and resented the child. Just read CryinginCali’s post about how much Stang helped the child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Stang
> As far as what I said about our kid I was bitter about being forced to have him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Again, Stang is more concerned about his bitterness than his child.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stang’s wife cryinginCali said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My husband gave me no support in helping me care for my son. *He regularly came home and told me in front of him and our daughter that he never wanted him,* and that he wasn't going to help with him
> 
> He felt resentful that we had the baby.
> 
> He's the one who *gives dirty graphic details about my affair to our daughter.*
> 
> He said if we got divorced he would* quit his job to avoid paying child support*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Stang, I am a BS and I know the hurt that a wife can give when she betrays the whole family. What your wife did was extreme selfishness and evil but she will pay a HUGE price for years and maybe for the rest of her life. Right now Stang you are worse than she is. You are a child molester, that is right, you have emotionally molested the emotions of your children. *Telling your children that you did not want them, giving dirty graphic details about your wife’s affair to your daughter, and will not support your children if you get divorced is beyond words of disgust! *
> 
> 
> You need to spend the rest of your life making up to your children what you have done. *I would suggest that the first thing that you do is to get a LOT OF HELP so that you can get your bitterness, hate, and vengeance out of your soul.* You are in real deep so RUN to every person, place, or thing that can help you. Even if the first one or two do not help then keep going. I know you have a lot of aggressiveness because you have shown tons of aggressiveness and activity along with your destructive tongue in spewing your vengeance on your wife even though it hurts your own children. Your biggest decision is not to divorce your wife it is for you to get the poison out of your soul. Your whole being is going to pay a huge price if you hold on to your vengeance and hate. You better find some one that can lead you in the right direction because you have no wisdom and you are acting like a complete loser. You are not capable to get out of your own prison.
> 
> Do not try and give us any crap about how you are staying in the marriage for the children; you have already proven that you will choose your malevolence over your children. I would not doubt that your wife would be better off without you if you do not change. You are bitter poison!
> 
> You are too weak to get out of your vengeance so at least be smart enough to get the right help. You know how to do that so do not try and make excuses.
> 
> At this point you and your wife have done a lot of damage but at least your wife is now remorseful and trying to make up for her disgusting actions in the past. You need to get humble and ask God for help and everyone else. Even if you both decide that you are going to try and get passed both of your evils you cannot do that by yourself; you are both in way too deep at this point. Way too much damage!
> 
> I have seen some terrible marriages put back together to have a decent life and you can also. However, you are going to have to do a 180 and I am not talking about the 180 on Tam, although that is a very good plan. The 180 I am talking about is for you to have a good talk with yourself and* stop focusing on how bad your wife did you and start fixing yourself!* That is the first step. Your wife will have to mostly fix herself with the right help. *You cannot fix her so do not harm her anymore so that your children will have a chance at getting better.*
> 
> Your young daughter has shown much more wisdom that you have by what she said. You said she said:
> *She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.*
> 
> Yes the children always feel it is their fault that their whole world is crashing. *A child’s emotional health is in the hands of their parents* until they get a lot older and even then the parents play a part.
> 
> So now Stang you have another choice. *Are you going to do what is right for your children or are you going to put your bitterness and vengeance ahead of your children?*
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying but this is yet another example of her spinning. I never told her I wouldn't pay child support. Never! Flat lie. Her lawyer told her she approx 3/4 of my income, most of which would be alimony. She throws this in my face every time I want to discuss divorce. Sorry but if I am going to be on the streets anyways because she almost every dime I make, I would stop working. But her mind has been on the money from day one. When she says she left me with most of the money, yet another distortion. She took every dollar she had access to. She was talking about the 401K. Same 401K that was about to be frozen by her greedy lawyer. 
About the my son and some of what I said. I would get off of work and instantly she would hound me to take care of him. From the moment I walked in the door. I did get frustrated. Sorry. According to our counselor who knows in much more detail what has happened I should have been allowed some time to relax after work. So yes when I walked through the door and my stay at home wife would tell me to change his diaper would demand I start changing diapers I snapped a COUPLE of times. 
I told my daughter about her affair explaining why I was leaving. I did. Although I wasn't graphic. The only reason why she knows the dirty details of what goes on during an affair is because our 9 year old daughter was becoming hooked on porn when I wasn't home. I found this out when I scored the electronics in the house. My wife was downstairs sexting and my daughter was upstairs watching porn while I was at work. II AM NOT A CHILD MOLESTOR. Kinda creepy that you would even suggest that.


----------



## convert

Stang197 said:


> Not sure what I want. Well yes I am. I want this to be a bad dream that I can wake up from. Yes it has been he'll for 15 months. *Our daughter is acting ok. I think this has seriously scared her. She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom.* I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.


Damn, 

your daughter is not acting OK.

OUT of everything I have read here in this thread I believe this is the worst part, made me cry

ugh

please talk to her,...... please


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> Wow, I'm sitting here in disbelief over intentional destruction that I'm reading in these posts. Middleman, I am complete disbelief over the fact you would send nude pictures of someone to their parents. That's below any cheating she has done. As for abuse, it doesn't happen overnight, it takes time. So well before her affair he was abusive. See mr. Blunts post above. He was abusive about his son, why don't you support Stang on that. Maybe next you'll tell Stang to show the pictures to his daughter, after all he tells her the graphic details. Grow up middleman and think like an adult.
> 
> Stang you were abusive, so your marriage wasn't Lilly white before your wife's cheating. This does not excuse her behavior or actions, her action should have been to divorce you. Telling your daughter graphic details of the affair is what I consider child abuse. But like all cheaters you are as fake as they come. You have easily left things out of your story to make you look better. But don't worry, middleman will support whatever you do. Basically the way I see what has happened is you were abusive, your wife retaliated with an affair, you then talked to numerous women had 1 EA and phone sex. But that wasn't enough so you had your wife watch you have sex with an escort. Then you do the ultimate sin, you say you will quit your job to avoid paying child support. Yeah, your right, shove your incompetency down your kids throats, they can chew on that for food.
> 
> Middleman read this, both are wrong, both terminated the marriage in the worst of ways, and both need to grow up and care for their children. What's done is water under the bridge, neither can go back and change anything. The best these two can do is have an amicable divorce for the sake of the children. Stop slinging the mud, be an adult, and give advice about how to care for the children. That's what is sad, even more sad then your sorry answer of sending the pictures to her parents. Great advice by the way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What marriage is lily white? Yes, I grew tired of having zero respect from this woman. Yes I grew tired of having zero say on how we raised our kids. I said some mean things while fighting. All true. But all common issues in marriage.


----------



## NoChoice

How many of us here want things both ways? Either there is justification for an A or there is not. I ask all who believe in RA's, which is it? If there is justification then who gets to determine the criteria? I see no practical purpose in what OP has done. In fact, the only purpose I can see is malice and not just directed towards his wife but his children as well. Hurting or not there is still right and wrong and to disallow wrong here, for any reason, I find incomprehensible. This marriage has much deeper issues than infidelity and unless both parties wake up and begin to put someone else first ahead of themselves, say the kids for instance, this will not end well for anyone.


----------



## Summer4744

Stang. I think it was a mistake to see the escort, because now your ww thinks you are even even though what she did was far worse. Seeing an escort was only ever going to be a one off thing with 0 chance of developing a relationship with the escort later, whereas your wayward wife had an affair that could have seen her leaving for the other man.

You got off with a stranger, she was testing the waters with another man to explore her options. That is way worse, especially since she had unprotected sex and you will NEVER be sure how many times they had sex.

People here are down on you for rubbing her nose in the affair, but if you had just let her get away with it there is a very good chance that she would have strayed again. Just read other threads here and see how many meek men there are who are willing to let themselves become the safe option. Because you established consequences, now she knows.

If you really wanted to balance the scales, you should have had sex with your EA girl. But because you didn't you still feel like you got the short end of the stick while your wife will tell people you saw an escort and had phone sex with 10 women just so she can save face and make herself feel better.


----------



## GusPolinski

Just waiting for the clown midget lawn crew at this point.


----------



## Stang197

Summer4744 said:


> Stang. I think it was a mistake to see the escort, because now your ww thinks you are even even though what she did was far worse. Seeing an escort was only ever going to be a one off thing with 0 chance of developing a relationship with the escort later, whereas your wayward wife had an affair that could have seen her leaving for the other man.
> 
> You got off with a stranger, she was testing the waters with another man to explore her options. That is way worse, especially since she had unprotected sex and you will NEVER be sure how many times they had sex.
> 
> People here are down on you for rubbing her nose in the affair, but if you had just let her get away with it there is a very good chance that she would have strayed again. Just read other threads here and see how many meek men there are who are willing to let themselves become the safe option. Because you established consequences, now she knows.
> 
> If you really wanted to balance the scales, you should have had sex with your EA girl. But because you didn't you still feel like you got the short end of the stick while your wife will tell people you saw an escort and had phone sex with 10 women just so she can save face and make herself feel better.


I have come to realize that there is no balancing of the scales here. 
Before I did anything it was still about saving face. At first I was a jerk for exposing my wife. Then I was a jerk for telling POSOM'S wife. Then I was a jerk for demanding a harsh no contact letter. Then I went over the top by suggesting divorce. Then I was in a pity party by going over time lines with OMW. I have been a wimp for not getting over this in timely fashion. Maybe I went over the top with the affairs.... Don't know. I haven't been super remorseful for them. As for the comments I have made before her affair during the heat of the moment fighting, I will forever regret.


----------



## Stang197

Summer4744 said:


> Stang. I think it was a mistake to see the escort, because now your ww thinks you are even even though what she did was far worse. Seeing an escort was only ever going to be a one off thing with 0 chance of developing a relationship with the escort later, whereas your wayward wife had an affair that could have seen her leaving for the other man.
> 
> You got off with a stranger, she was testing the waters with another man to explore her options. That is way worse, especially since she had unprotected sex and you will NEVER be sure how many times they had sex.
> 
> People here are down on you for rubbing her nose in the affair, but if you had just let her get away with it there is a very good chance that she would have strayed again. Just read other threads here and see how many meek men there are who are willing to let themselves become the safe option. Because you established consequences, now she knows.
> 
> If you really wanted to balance the scales, you should have had sex with your EA girl. But because you didn't you still feel like you got the short end of the stick while your wife will tell people you saw an escort and had phone sex with 10 women just so she can save face and make herself feel better.


You are right that I had zero chance of developing a relationship with the escort. That was one of the reasons that we agreed on it. That's right she fully agreed to it. And for those who think it was completely abusive, here is a little tidbit that was left out.... My wife got off on watching it. That morning she woke me up and said very seductively "so your going to be a bad boy today" and then had sex with me. Sounds like someone who is going to be scarred for life.


----------



## ThePheonix

CryingInCali said:


> His emotional abuse of me is not WHY I did what I did.


Just to clarify something Cali, what you're saying is that you would have cheated even if he wasn't emotional abusive?


----------



## The Middleman

​


ThePheonix said:


> Just to clarify something Cali, what you're saying is that you would have cheated even if he wasn't emotional abusive?


Certainly sounds like it. That's why I asked for her account of the affair. Everyone's down on Stang, but there is more than one person at this dance.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> ​
> 
> 
> ThePheonix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just to clarify something Cali, what you're saying is that you would have cheated even if he wasn't emotional abusive?
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly sounds like it. That's why I asked for her account of the affair. Everyone's down on Stang, but there is more than one person at this dance.
Click to expand...

And is why I say she justifies it. This is all I have heard from her. Her idea of figuring out why she did what she did is to figure out how I drove her to do it. Notice she has zero self reflection in her post. Despite our problems she thought this behavior was OK. As long as she didn't get caught.


----------



## CryingInCali

Stang197 said:


> Mr Blunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stang is so vengeful that he will hurt the mother of his children so that he can try to satisfy his vengeance. *What is despicable is that he will hurt his own children to try and satisfy his vengeance and hatred.*
> 
> Stang will probably try and put a spin on the facts but he has hurt his children to feed his disgusting weakness.
> 
> Here below are some of Stang’s own words:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Stang
> I love my son. I was bitter towards her because she told me either I have another kid or she is going to divorce me. So yes after he was born *I wasn't as helpful as I should have been.*
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about TT and trying to put a spin on his own actions; Stang was bitter and resented the child. Just read CryinginCali’s post about how much Stang helped the child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Stang
> As far as what I said about our kid I was bitter about being forced to have him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Again, Stang is more concerned about his bitterness than his child.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stang’s wife cryinginCali said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My husband gave me no support in helping me care for my son. *He regularly came home and told me in front of him and our daughter that he never wanted him,* and that he wasn't going to help with him
> 
> He felt resentful that we had the baby.
> 
> He's the one who *gives dirty graphic details about my affair to our daughter.*
> 
> He said if we got divorced he would* quit his job to avoid paying child support*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Stang, I am a BS and I know the hurt that a wife can give when she betrays the whole family. What your wife did was extreme selfishness and evil but she will pay a HUGE price for years and maybe for the rest of her life. Right now Stang you are worse than she is. You are a child molester, that is right, you have emotionally molested the emotions of your children. *Telling your children that you did not want them, giving dirty graphic details about your wife’s affair to your daughter, and will not support your children if you get divorced is beyond words of disgust! *
> 
> 
> You need to spend the rest of your life making up to your children what you have done. *I would suggest that the first thing that you do is to get a LOT OF HELP so that you can get your bitterness, hate, and vengeance out of your soul.* You are in real deep so RUN to every person, place, or thing that can help you. Even if the first one or two do not help then keep going. I know you have a lot of aggressiveness because you have shown tons of aggressiveness and activity along with your destructive tongue in spewing your vengeance on your wife even though it hurts your own children. Your biggest decision is not to divorce your wife it is for you to get the poison out of your soul. Your whole being is going to pay a huge price if you hold on to your vengeance and hate. You better find some one that can lead you in the right direction because you have no wisdom and you are acting like a complete loser. You are not capable to get out of your own prison.
> 
> Do not try and give us any crap about how you are staying in the marriage for the children; you have already proven that you will choose your malevolence over your children. I would not doubt that your wife would be better off without you if you do not change. You are bitter poison!
> 
> You are too weak to get out of your vengeance so at least be smart enough to get the right help. You know how to do that so do not try and make excuses.
> 
> At this point you and your wife have done a lot of damage but at least your wife is now remorseful and trying to make up for her disgusting actions in the past. You need to get humble and ask God for help and everyone else. Even if you both decide that you are going to try and get passed both of your evils you cannot do that by yourself; you are both in way too deep at this point. Way too much damage!
> 
> I have seen some terrible marriages put back together to have a decent life and you can also. However, you are going to have to do a 180 and I am not talking about the 180 on Tam, although that is a very good plan. The 180 I am talking about is for you to have a good talk with yourself and* stop focusing on how bad your wife did you and start fixing yourself!* That is the first step. Your wife will have to mostly fix herself with the right help. *You cannot fix her so do not harm her anymore so that your children will have a chance at getting better.*
> 
> Your young daughter has shown much more wisdom that you have by what she said. You said she said:
> *She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.*
> 
> Yes the children always feel it is their fault that their whole world is crashing. *A child’s emotional health is in the hands of their parents* until they get a lot older and even then the parents play a part.
> 
> So now Stang you have another choice. *Are you going to do what is right for your children or are you going to put your bitterness and vengeance ahead of your children?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand what you are saying but this is yet another example of her spinning. I never told her I wouldn't pay child support. Never! Flat lie. Her lawyer told her she approx 3/4 of my income, most of which would be alimony. She throws this in my face every time I want to discuss divorce. Sorry but if I am going to be on the streets anyways because she almost every dime I make, I would stop working. But her mind has been on the money from day one. When she says she left me with most of the money, yet another distortion. She took every dollar she had access to. She was talking about the 401K. Same 401K that was about to be frozen by her greedy lawyer.
> About the my son and some of what I said. I would get off of work and instantly she would hound me to take care of him. From the moment I walked in the door. I did get frustrated. Sorry. According to our counselor who knows in much more detail what has happened I should have been allowed some time to relax after work. So yes when I walked through the door and my stay at home wife would tell me to change his diaper would demand I start changing diapers I snapped a COUPLE of times.
> I told my daughter about her affair explaining why I was leaving. I did. Although I wasn't graphic. The only reason why she knows the dirty details of what goes on during an affair is because our 9 year old daughter was becoming hooked on porn when I wasn't home. I found this out when I scored the electronics in the house. My wife was downstairs sexting and my daughter was upstairs watching porn while I was at work. II AM NOT A CHILD MOLESTOR. Kinda creepy that you would even suggest that.
Click to expand...

Stan197 you are lying... Again. You have told me time and again that you would not pay child support/alimony. You need to remember that the amount of money they said I would get is NOT 3/4 of your income, and is only as high as it is because I am not working right now. When I get a job it would be barely any money at all and you have still threatened to not pay child support which is why suggested I move in with my dad.
You're not owning up to your abusive behavior. Maybe it did feel like I hounded you right when you walked in the door. Sorry. You should've had time to relax before I asked (not demanded as you say) a thing of you. But, for one... I am not just a stay at home mom. I was also going to school and frequently had assignments and reading due. So the rare occasion that I asked anything of you it was because I was overwhelmed and you never gave a **** and rarely helped. Still don't. You are not being honest about the frequency/depth of your outbursts at me and our son. 
You're also lying about telling our daughter. In the car you don't remember saying, "your mom got naked and so did he and they had sex."? You seem to be blaming me for our daughter stumbling across porn on her tablet. That could happen to any kid and it wasn't because I neglected her to text him. That's BS. It's because we weren't wise and didn't put a child filter on her tablet. You again... Are lying about the money. I took less than 1/4 the amount I left you with in the 401k and still left several thousand in the checking. So did I take almost everything I had ACCESS to? Sure. But that's still less than what I would get if our assets were divided by a judge. What does it even matter anyway!? I returned it that day. 
You refuse to take any criticism from anyone on here who does not agree with you or doesn't believe your story. One of the major signs of emotional abuse is minimizing it and denying it.


----------



## drifting on

NoChoice said:


> How many of us here want things both ways? Either there is justification for an A or there is not. I ask all who believe in RA's, which is it? If there is justification then who gets to determine the criteria? I see no practical purpose in what OP has done. In fact, the only purpose I can see is malice and not just directed towards his wife but his children as well. Hurting or not there is still right and wrong and to disallow wrong here, for any reason, I find incomprehensible. This marriage has much deeper issues than infidelity and unless both parties wake up and begin to put someone else first ahead of themselves, say the kids for instance, this will not end well for anyone.



I couldn't agree more with this, and it's what I'm begging these parents to do, get help for your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> And is why I say she justifies it. This is all I have heard from her. Her idea of figuring out why she did what she did is to figure out how I drove her to do it.
> 
> *And I told you yesterday that's what she would do if you brought her here. I said that everyone will crawl out of the woodwork and side with her. Low and behold, that's exactly what happened.*
> 
> Notice she has zero self reflection in her post.
> 
> *And I said that when I challenged her.*
> 
> Despite our problems she thought this behavior was OK. As long as she didn't get caught.
> 
> *Classic cheater script. This is why she won't give us her account of the affair. Maybe you should give us the affair timeline, seeing as you went over it with the OMW. Maybe your wife will respond then.*


----------



## sparrow555

Stang, you must have read my posts in this thread. You are doing this wrong. You are hurting yourself and your family with how you are going about it. Do you actually want to reconcile and make this marriage work ?



> I have come to realize that there is no balancing of the scales here.
> Before I did anything it was still about saving face. At first I was a jerk for exposing my wife. Then I was a jerk for telling POSOM'S wife. Then I was a jerk for demanding a harsh no contact letter. Then I went over the top by suggesting divorce. Then I was in a pity party by going over time lines with OMW. I have been a wimp for not getting over this in timely fashion. Maybe I went over the top with the affairs.... Don't know. I haven't been super remorseful for them. As for the comments I have made before her affair during the heat of the moment fighting, I will forever regret.


The pity party mode is going to hurt you.


----------



## ThePheonix

Here's the way its looking:


----------



## sparrow555

Stang197 said:


> And is why I say she justifies it. This is all I have heard from her. Her idea of figuring out why she did what she did is to figure out how I drove her to do it. Notice she has zero self reflection in her post. Despite our problems she thought this behavior was OK. As long as she didn't get caught.


What is your ideal reaction from her ? The affair is already past tense. She cannot go back and un-affair or unf*ck the guy.

Based on her and your posts, maybe she is not doing it properly but she is definitely trying. Why don't you write what you expect from her ?

Again, as a justified as your reactions are, living with a person like you is pretty hard. Even before the affair. Do you realize that ?


----------



## BetrayedDad

CryingInCali said:


> Because, yes, I have made horrible decisions that can affect them the rest of their lives.


You mean like this decision?



Stang197 said:


> She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion".


What purpose did this serve except to humiliate your husband in the most grotesque fashion you could possibly imagine? 



CryingInCali said:


> It has been very hard, because I am reminded constantly in one way or another of what a horrible person I am.


As you should be... this is beyond sick. Your husband should of made you eat the condom he banged the hooker with. I think you got off easy just watching the sex.


----------



## drifting on

Stang197 said:


> I have come to realize that there is no balancing of the scales here.
> Before I did anything it was still about saving face. At first I was a jerk for exposing my wife. Then I was a jerk for telling POSOM'S wife. Then I was a jerk for demanding a harsh no contact letter. Then I went over the top by suggesting divorce. Then I was in a pity party by going over time lines with OMW. I have been a wimp for not getting over this in timely fashion. Maybe I went over the top with the affairs.... Don't know. I haven't been super remorseful for them. As for the comments I have made before her affair during the heat of the moment fighting, I will forever regret.



Stang,

Honestly, you did some things right, some that I do not believe to be over the top. Balancing of the scales, well you will just hurt more people, namely your kids. I agree with exposing your wife, don't go over the top and send the photos to her parents, thankfully you didn't. Expose OM, by all means, I prefer in person, but that's me. No contact letter, yes, simple and straightforward, no calling of names, but yes I agree. Suggesting divorce, yes, still on the table in my reconciliation. Getting over this in a timely fashion, that's whatever time you need. It could be a month, a year, two years, it's whatever time you need. Your comments during fights, I'm sure resentment started there. 

You both need intense therapy, you both need to put your children in therapy. I guess I would start there, the children. But this hinges upon whether or not either of you can stop being selfish long enough. This story is sad and infuriating, filled with vile words that are meant to belittle or hurt anyone. As a BS reading this made my stomach turn, my heart wants to reach out to your kids, and some posters, me not excluded, posted with emotions that were charged up. 

So forget balancing the scales, go to MC and work on forgiveness, work on owning your actions, work on being truthful. While at MC figure out if you want divorce or reconciliation. Then commit to your choice, all the while continuing help for your kids. Go to IC, both if you, you are both broken and need to make corrections in how to live. How to be a spouse, how to be a parent. Learn coping skills and learn how to communicate truthfully. Stop your lies and help each other obtain the goal you both want. 

No marriage is Lilly white, they all have their respective challenges, and you both have added more challenges then you ever needed. I wish you well Stang and cryingincali, best of luck to you both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

CryingInCali said:


> Stan197 you are lying... Again. You have told me time and again that you would not pay child support/alimony. You need to remember that the amount of money they said I would get is NOT 3/4 of your income, and is only as high as it is because I am not working right now. When I get a job it would be barely any money at all and you have still threatened to not pay child support which is why suggested I move in with my dad.
> You're not owning up to your abusive behavior. Maybe it did feel like I hounded you right when you walked in the door. Sorry. You should've had time to relax before I asked (not demanded as you say) a thing of you. But, for one... I am not just a stay at home mom. I was also going to school and frequently had assignments and reading due. So the rare occasion that I asked anything of you it was because I was overwhelmed and you never gave a **** and rarely helped. Still don't. You are not being honest about the frequency/depth of your outbursts at me and our son.
> You're also lying about telling our daughter. In the car you don't remember saying, "your mom got naked and so did he and they had sex."? You seem to be blaming me for our daughter stumbling across porn on her tablet. That could happen to any kid and it wasn't because I neglected her to text him. That's BS. It's because we weren't wise and didn't put a child filter on her tablet. You again... Are lying about the money. I took less than 1/4 the amount I left you with in the 401k and still left several thousand in the checking. So did I take almost everything I had ACCESS to? Sure. But that's still less than what I would get if our assets were divided by a judge. What does it even matter anyway!? I returned it that day.
> You refuse to take any criticism from anyone on here who does not agree with you or doesn't believe your story. One of the major signs of emotional abuse is minimizing it and denying it.


Own your affair fully, without pointing fingers at your husband for your bad decision. No one made you become a horrible person. That was all you.

Then you two can work on your marriage. If you two can't or won't work to resolve your marriage issues, separate from your affair, then learn to co-parent and don't try to destroy him in the divorce.

Invest in affair healing and marriage builder resources.

You can't control him. Work on repairing your malfunction, this includes, #1: Your affair! All yours sweety. #2: Your part in a bad marriage, you at least share that responsibility with your husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CryingInCali

BetrayedDad said:


> CryingInCali said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because, yes, I have made horrible decisions that can affect them the rest of their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this decision?
> 
> 
> 
> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What purpose did this serve except to humiliate your husband in the most grotesque fashion you could possibly imagine?
> 
> 
> 
> CryingInCali said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been very hard, because I am reminded constantly in one way or another of what a horrible person I am.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As you should be... this is beyond sick. Your husband should of made you eat the condom he banged the hooker with. I think you got off easy just watching the sex.
Click to expand...

Yes like that decision. 
And regardless of whether or not YOU think I got off easy, I shouldn't be reminded of my failures constantly if he is planning on staying and working on reconciliation.


----------



## Stang197

ConanHub said:


> CryingInCali said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stan197 you are lying... Again. You have told me time and again that you would not pay child support/alimony. You need to remember that the amount of money they said I would get is NOT 3/4 of your income, and is only as high as it is because I am not working right now. When I get a job it would be barely any money at all and you have still threatened to not pay child support which is why suggested I move in with my dad.
> You're not owning up to your abusive behavior. Maybe it did feel like I hounded you right when you walked in the door. Sorry. You should've had time to relax before I asked (not demanded as you say) a thing of you. But, for one... I am not just a stay at home mom. I was also going to school and frequently had assignments and reading due. So the rare occasion that I asked anything of you it was because I was overwhelmed and you never gave a **** and rarely helped. Still don't. You are not being honest about the frequency/depth of your outbursts at me and our son.
> You're also lying about telling our daughter. In the car you don't remember saying, "your mom got naked and so did he and they had sex."? You seem to be blaming me for our daughter stumbling across porn on her tablet. That could happen to any kid and it wasn't because I neglected her to text him. That's BS. It's because we weren't wise and didn't put a child filter on her tablet. You again... Are lying about the money. I took less than 1/4 the amount I left you with in the 401k and still left several thousand in the checking. So did I take almost everything I had ACCESS to? Sure. But that's still less than what I would get if our assets were divided by a judge. What does it even matter anyway!? I returned it that day.
> You refuse to take any criticism from anyone on here who does not agree with you or doesn't believe your story. One of the major signs of emotional abuse is minimizing it and denying it.
> 
> 
> 
> Own your affair fully, without pointing fingers at your husband for your bad decision. No one made you become a horrible person. That was all you.
> 
> Then you two can work on your marriage. If you two can't or won't work to resolve your marriage issues, separate from your affair, then learn to co-parent and don't try to destroy him in the divorce.
> 
> Invest in affair healing and marriage builder resources.
> 
> You can't control him. Work on repairing your malfunction, this includes, #1: Your affair! All yours sweety. #2: Your part in a bad marriage, you at least share that responsibility with your husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

I agree I own half of the problems pre-affair. My issue is she wants me own all of the problems before and after. She was just a innocent abused snow white that has been pushed into all of this. Trust me that I am no the only one blamed for the affair. She blames the OM too. He was just so smart and tricked her.


----------



## drifting on

CryingInCali said:


> Yes like that decision.
> And regardless of whether or not YOU think I got off easy, I shouldn't be reminded of my failures constantly if he is planning on staying and working on reconciliation.




During forgiveness you will discuss the affair exclusively, repeatedly, to help heal Stang. Stang has to decide if he can accept your actions, your affair. You need to help him get through this, and yes that means your affair will be brought up. The affair is not to be used as a tool against you, and maybe that is what you are saying. But no, I don't see how you have owned your affair, I don't see how remorseful you are because you are defensive. However on this thread I can understand you both being defensive and aggressive. You are both being called out to own your actions, and self reflecting is very difficult to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

drifting on said:


> CryingInCali said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes like that decision.
> And regardless of whether or not YOU think I got off easy, I shouldn't be reminded of my failures constantly if he is planning on staying and working on reconciliation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During forgiveness you will discuss the affair exclusively, repeatedly, to help heal Stang. Stang has to decide if he can accept your actions, your affair. You need to help him get through this, and yes that means your affair will be brought up. The affair is not to be used as a tool against you, and maybe that is what you are saying. But no, I don't see how you have owned your affair, I don't see how remorseful you are because you are defensive. However on this thread I can understand you both being defensive and aggressive. You are both being called out to own your actions, and self reflecting is very difficult to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Her defensiveness has been brought up by our counselor alot. Counselor would tell her that I will leave if she keeps it up. That is still what she wants to do. I guess its easier then owning.


----------



## The Middleman

CryingInCali said:


> Yes like that decision.
> And regardless of whether or not YOU think I got off easy, I shouldn't be reminded of my failures constantly if he is planning on staying and working on reconciliation.


Bull Droppings, you do need to be reminded, every single day until this either fixes it self or you two divorce. You seem to be reminding him of his failures an awful lot. And if what he said you did was true, do you blame him for having the reactions he did? Please tell us: why did you need to sleep with the father of your daughters friend and destroy two families? How did you two hook up? Why did you degrade Stang with oral sex after your hook-up? Answer these questions because this will tell us a lot about you that seems to have been omitted.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> Also one the point of leaving stuff out.... She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion". Does that make her a liar? Sounds like an abuser to me.


This is is cruel beyond imagination; she's lucky Stang didn't do far worse than he did. 

To those high and mighty ones who took a negative view on the concept sharing the naked photos with the in laws at the time of initial exposure, please give me your thoughts on this one? This sh1t is why I had no problem with the concept. Yes, my personality is vengeful and I do advise vengeance as part of the healing process for the BS. Hearing sh!t like this just reinforces my feelings.


----------



## NoChoice

First I must say I am perplexed by some on here actually advising OP on what kind of A he "should have" had. I find it incredulous. Remarkable. Astounding.


I would address this to both parties, OP and his wife. The bottom line here is that there is a family to consider, children who are undeserving of any of this. There is much talk about taking ownership but there must be consideration involving provocation. If someone is starving, is stealing wrong? Taking what does not belong to you is always wrong, as are affairs but people will respond differently to food when they are satiated than they will when starving. You can argue that if you choose but it is true. Situations are conditional. Some may have enough honor and integrity to actually starve to death before stealing, most do not. Crying felt as though OP was starving her, so she stole. Upon finding out of her deceit OP felt as though she was starving him, so he stole, multiple times. Here is the real question, are either of you satiated? Has all of the stealing satisfied your hunger?

If you place food in front of a person that is craving sustenance there exists a chance that they will take it. Is this wrong? Yes. Is this selfish? Yes, they are more concerned with their problem than with the effect on others and the consequences. But is it a possibility? Yes, and to expect otherwise is a least somewhat irresponsible. You cannot be oblivious to another persons hunger and be completely shocked when they steal your food.

So, with all of this fighting and accusing and shifting of blame and stealing I ask are either of you satisfied and happy? It is beginning to sound like a schoolyard fight with all of the "he started it" and "she deserved it". The bottom line is that no one deserved it, ESPECIALLY the children. It is not possible to undo what is done, all anyone can do is move forward and not repeat the same horrific behavior. There is much healing that has to occur in this marriage and more than a little maturing but it cannot begin until each of you face their own demons and then commit to working together to fix the relationship. Or agree to amicably separate and be the best co-parents you can be. The continued fighting and blame assigning is accomplishing nothing save to negatively impact your children. Own what you each did and realize the reasons for it and then R will be possible.


----------



## Clay2013

CryingInCali said:


> Yes like that decision.
> And regardless of whether or not YOU think I got off easy, I shouldn't be reminded of my failures constantly if he is planning on staying and working on reconciliation.


Sorry it does not work that way and if this is what you think then just get a divorce.


You both have failed. 

C


----------



## sparrow555

Stang and Cali.. Do you realize the way you two talk about one another is totally abnormal ? this is not a popularity contest.Instead of accepting mistakes each of you made, you are arguing on who is the worse of the two. The husband hates his son and the mother accepts no responsibilty. This is messed up


----------



## vox.populi

I'll stick up for Cali just a bit here first. The minority here are the one's wanting you to own your affair. That option has expired.

Listen to me.

I've been in his shoes. If you love each other even in the slightest and you love the kids then just let go for the love of Christ. You both deserve some peace. You have failed to reconcile at this point. Don't take it too hard. TAM is unanimous about the difficulty of a successful reconciliation. You didn't have what it takes. Neither have many of us (especially the more bitter ones who took too long to admit defeat).

Stang,

She needs to take the kids and go man. It is that simple. Play nice and perhaps the two of you are competent enough to fire your lawyers and stop letting them steal financial resources from your children's future needs. Yes, you will join the club of millions of men who will pay child support somewhere in the not to distant future. Don't make that worse by stacking $10K worth of attorney's fees on top. You aren't a more suitable parent. Face facts. You aren't.

On the bright side, she is offering to move out. Help her do it. Then the two of you nice and friendly get an example decree from one of the thousands of other couple who divorced in your area recently, find-and-replace, then get on the divorce court's uncontested docket. Don't expect a lawyer to represent your children's best interests at all until you have helped them make the lease payment on their Range Rover. I'm guessing the California Attorney General's Website has the child support percentage guidelines posted somewhere. Start wrapping your head around those child support #'s now so you can make this as amicable as possible and you can probably work towards a whole new future for yourself.

As a BS with primary custody of his 3 children, I was a more suitable primary custodian than my WW was and I've proven that to her and the kids everyday since she moved out. You aren't that kind of man. Although, I kinda admire your strength, you still gotta discontinue use of your Alpha male bull**** amigo. I had a small string of RA's with women exactly like Cali, emotionally empty. Guys such as yourself made it easy for me to poach their wives. Don't get me wrong, I hate myself for doing it and I really lack any empathy now for those empty women. I thank my creator that I didn't wreck any homes even though my own home had been wrecked in the process. We live and we learn man.

Consequently, I feel that you and your wife are both good people but no one ever said this marriage $h1+ would be easy. We worked lovingly and diligently together for 19 years. It sounds like you and Cali have been together for awhile yourselves. It's time that we called it a success, wrap things up and part ways before we all turn into bitter old alcoholic $h1+ heads. She is going to go find a person who makes her genuinely happy and so are you. Your daughter will slowly adjust to the changes and will need you to help her through that AS SELFLESSLY AS YOU ARE ABLE.

Godspeed you two. I really hope that The Stang & Cali's Trainwreck Show doesn't get extended for too many more seasons. Although, it has been supremely entertaining.


----------



## BetrayedDad

NoChoice said:


> If you place food in front of a person that is craving sustenance there exists a chance that they will take it. Is this wrong? Yes. Is this selfish? Yes, they are more concerned with their problem than with the effect on others and the consequences. But is it a possibility? Yes, and to expect otherwise is a least somewhat irresponsible. You cannot be oblivious to another persons hunger and be completely shocked when they steal your food.


Seriously I know you're trying to help but enough with the analogies lol. They are terrible.

1) If you starve you will die. If you don't have affair sex you won't.

2) Your analogy implies cheating (like stealing for the starving poor child) is the only solution therefore we shouldn't be shocked when it happens. Cheating is NEVER the only solution, usually just the easiest one.

Hunger and sex are not the same thing. You make fair points when your not analogizing... I'd stick to that route.


----------



## Stang197

vox.populi said:


> I'll stick up for Cali just a bit here first. The minority here are the one's wanting you to own your affair. That option has expired.
> 
> Listen to me.
> 
> I've been in his shoes. If you love each other even in the slightest and you love the kids then just let go for the love of Christ. You both deserve some peace. You have failed to reconcile at this point. Don't take it to hard. TAM is unanimous about the difficulty of a successful reconciliation. You didn't have what it takes. Neither have many of us (especially the more bitter ones who took too long to admit defeat).
> 
> Stang,
> 
> She needs to take the kids and go man. It is that simple. Play nice and perhaps the two of you are competent enough to fire your lawyers and stop letting them steal financial resources from your children's future needs. Yes, you will joint the club of millions of men who will pay child support somewhere in the not to distant future. Don't make that worse by stacking $10K worth of attorney's fees on top. You aren't a more suitable parent. Face facts. You aren't.
> 
> On the bright side, she is offering to move out. Help her do it. Then the two of you nice and friendly get an example decree from one of the thousands of other couple who divorced in your area recently, find-and-replace, then get on the divorce court's uncontested docket. Don't expect a lawyer to represent your children's best interests at all until you have helped them make the lease payment on their Range Rover. I'm guessing the California Attorney General's Website has the child support percentage guidelines posted somewhere. Start wrapping your head around those child support #'s now so you can make this as amicable as possible and you can probably work towards a whole new future for yourself.
> 
> As a BS with primary custody of his 3 children, I was a more suitable primary custodian than my WW was and I've proven that to her and the kids everyday since she moved out. You aren't that kind of man. Although, I kinda admire your strength, you still gotta discontinue use of your Alpha male bull**** amigo. I had a small string of RA's with women exactly like Cali, emotionally empty. Guys such as yourself made it easy for me to poach their wives. Don't get me wrong, I hate myself for doing it and I really lack any empathy now for those empty women. I thank my creator that I didn't wreck any homes even though my own home had been wrecked in the process. We live and we learn man.
> 
> Consequently, I feel that you and your wife are both good people but no one ever said this marriage $h1+ would be easy. We worked lovingly and diligently together for 19 years. It sounds like you and Cali have been together for awhile yourselves. It's time that we called it a success, wrap things up and part ways before we all turn into bitter old alcoholic $h1+ heads. She is going to go find a person who makes her genuinely happy and so are you. Your daughter will slowly adjust to the changes and will need you to help her through that AS SELFLESSLY AS YOU ARE ABLE.
> 
> Godspeed you two. I really hope that The Stang & Cali's Trainwreck Show doesn't get extended for too many more seasons. Although, it has been supremely entertaining.


Ya I do not think I will take any advice from someone who has actively "poached" any body's wife. Personally I think if you're so religious now maybe we should go old testament in this situation. How many wives would you poach then? Who are you to judge anyone. I am glad you have been entertained. For us it's heartbreaking.


----------



## Stang197

BetrayedDad said:


> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you place food in front of a person that is craving sustenance there exists a chance that they will take it. Is this wrong? Yes. Is this selfish? Yes, they are more concerned with their problem than with the effect on others and the consequences. But is it a possibility? Yes, and to expect otherwise is a least somewhat irresponsible. You cannot be oblivious to another persons hunger and be completely shocked when they steal your food.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously I know you're trying to help but enough with the analogies lol. They are terrible.
> 
> 1) If you starve you will die. If you don't have affair sex you won't.
> 
> 2) You're analogy implies cheating (like stealing for the starving poor child) is the only solution. Cheating is never the only solution.
> 
> Hunger and sex are not the same thing. You make fair points when your not analogizing... I'd stick to that route.
Click to expand...

Ya I agree. Besides she wasn't sex starved. More justified excuses. She wanted to do it period. Anything else is just an excuse. If she was concerned about the marriage she would have went to counselling or filed for divorce. She wanted both. Selfish.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> Ya I agree. Besides she wasn't sex starved. More justified excuses. She wanted to do it period. Anything else is just an excuse. If she was concerned about the marriage she would have went to counselling or filed for divorce. She wanted both. Selfish.


Why don't you think she won't directly address what you raised above as well as the facts/details of the affair here?


----------



## alte Dame

In my opinion, you both are far too self-absorbed to stop yourselves from ruining any chances your children have for a healthy, happy future.

What spoiled children you are yourselves!

Grow up, both of you. Just grow up.

Do the right thing and get a divorce. Her affair was inexcusable. Many of his reactions were inexcusable. Just grow up and own what you have done.

Stop the bleeding and get away from one another. To me, this is the only thing that would give those innocent children a fighting chance. I think you both should be ashamed.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya I agree. Besides she wasn't sex starved. More justified excuses. She wanted to do it period. Anything else is just an excuse. If she was concerned about the marriage she would have went to counselling or filed for divorce. She wanted both. Selfish.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you think she won't directly address what you raised above as well as the facts/details of the affair here?
Click to expand...

She told me she doesn't want to answer to a bunch of strangers. She said if I keep posting she is done with the marriage. I don't think she wants to admit to herself this is what she wanted to do. She would rather throw everyone under the bus.


----------



## cdbaker

Just... wow.

A few thoughts:

Stang, I get the impression that you were a pretty awful husband before the marriage. Why? It sounds like you were mean and heartless, which you haven't really denied, but only responded by trying to point out ways in which she didn't perform to your specifications.

While your wife acknowledges that there is no excuse for what she did, it was very very wrong, it is also apparent that your treatment of her and your family is what left her so incredibly vulnerable to the charms of another man. Again, what she did is still wrong, and the right thing for her to have done then would have been to leave you and either force you to wake up to what you were doing to her and the marriage, or divorce you.

Unfortunately, by cheating on you, she gave you the "victim" tag, which has enabled you to relentlessly abuse her since the affair. There is absolutely no excuse, even her affair, for you sleeping with other women, searching them out online, engaging in phone sex or building relationships with other women, etc. This is straight up abuse. You had/have a right to be upset, to feel hurt, to be angry, to lose trust in her, etc., but not to abuse her.

At this point, why haven't you made a decision? This part is just ridiculous. I could understand being angry and irrational in the immediate aftermath of discovery, but months and even a year or so later, it just doesn't make sense. Make up your mind already! The fact that she's taken your abuse all this time and hasn't moved on should be reason enough to give her a chance, but if you aren't willing to, then do everyone a favor and give her a divorce already.

Further, there is absolutely nothing wrong with her recognizing her rights and being prepared to defend herself in a potential divorce and get what is fair for herself. You seem to judge her defensive words and actions as being detrimental to the marriage and insulting to you, all the while you offensively attack her and the marriage left and right.

Just make a decision already!


----------



## cdbaker

Stang197 said:


> She told me she doesn't want to answer to a bunch of strangers. She said if I keep posting she is done with the marriage. I don't think she wants to admit to herself this is what she wanted to do. She would rather throw everyone under the bus.


It's because you keep relentlessly defending yourself and minimizing your past actions, and she's seeing that she wasn't alone in feeling that you have been doing this. I bet she's seeing the reactions to everything you have put her through, and questioning why she is still here. I advised that you make a decision already, but I think unless you change your attitude immediately and try to turn things around, she'll probably make the decision for you because none of you deserve to continue living this way. 

She would rather throw everyone under the bus? Who cares about us? We don't matter. She's purely looking at each and every one of your defensive posts, and questioning whether there is any hope at all that you might change.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
My analogy was not meant to denote sex but rather any and all missing components of a healthy marriage. The "starving" was not meant to be taken literally and could represent a lack of help with the children, emotional investment, financial considerations, sharing time together and as a family, conversation, attention and many more. Upon deeper reflection I see your point and will refrain from posting further. I wish you and your wife every happiness.


----------



## vox.populi

Stang197 said:


> Ya I do not think I will take any advice from someone who has actively "poached" any body's wife. Personally I think if you're so religious now maybe we should go old testament in this situation. How many wives would you poach then? Who are you to judge anyone. I am glad you have been entertained. For us it's heartbreaking.


I do apologize for the comment on how entertaining you have been. I would like to point out that you are wrong. This isn't heartbreaking. What you did when you divulged the affair to your daughter; that was heartbreaking.

Does your planet forbid the use of phrases like "Godspeed" and "thank my creator". I didn't mean to sound like one of those mean judgmental religious people.

What I meant to say is that I screw up. You screw up. We all screw up. Good thing for you that you seem to screw up less than me, less than Cali, less than who else. So good in fact that you sound like you have this situation completely under control. Good Job. Do you like Mustangs?


----------



## The Middleman

​


Stang197 said:


> She told me she doesn't want to answer to a bunch of strangers. She said if I keep posting she is done with the marriage. I don't think she wants to admit to herself this is what she wanted to do. She would rather throw everyone under the bus.


That's about what I was expecting to hear because it's the standard script. She is what she is.

Anyway, I have to agree with the others here. I think divorce is the best option. She isn't really owning what she did and isn't truly remorseful. You have done things to try to level the playing field and gain back your self respect but you can't put this behind you, probably because she really isn't owning what she did. I've always said that there is no real recovery after a physical affair, especially for guys; this just convinces me that I'm right on the subject. Live up to your obligations as a father, move on and find someone better. Given what I've read, that shouldn't be hard.

PS: I'm sorry I talked you into posting your story. I think it did more harm than good.

PPS: She's going to leave the marriage because you are posting on an anonymous board where no one knows who the hell you people are? I think it's more like she doesn't want to hear what you and others think. She just wants a rug sweep.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> ​
> 
> 
> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She told me she doesn't want to answer to a bunch of strangers. She said if I keep posting she is done with the marriage. I don't think she wants to admit to herself this is what she wanted to do. She would rather throw everyone under the bus.
> 
> 
> 
> That's about what I was expecting to hear because it's the standard script. She is what she is.
> 
> Anyway, I have to agree with the others here. I think divorce is the best option. She isn't really owning what she did and isn't truly remorseful. You have done things to try to level the playing field and gain back your self respect but you can't put this behind you, probably because she really isn't owning what she did. I've always said that there is no real recovery after a physical affair, especially for guys; this just convinces me that I'm right on the subject. Live up to your obligations as a father, move on and find someone better. Given what I've read, that shouldn't be hard.
> 
> PS: I'm sorry I talked you into posting your story. I think it did more harm than good.
> 
> PPS: She's going to leave the marriage because you are posting on an anonymous board where no one knows who the hell you people are? I think it's more like she doesn't want to hear what you and others think. She just wants a rug sweep.
Click to expand...

Ya I think that's it. She doesn't want to hear it. She wants to forget all of it. 
I too am not sure I will ever truly get over this. She thinks there is no way I couldn't, I just have to man up.


----------



## Stang197

cdbaker said:


> Just... wow.
> 
> A few thoughts:
> 
> Stang, I get the impression that you were a pretty awful husband before the marriage. Why? It sounds like you were mean and heartless, which you haven't really denied, but only responded by trying to point out ways in which she didn't perform to your specifications.
> 
> While your wife acknowledges that there is no excuse for what she did, it was very very wrong, it is also apparent that your treatment of her and your family is what left her so incredibly vulnerable to the charms of another man. Again, what she did is still wrong, and the right thing for her to have done then would have been to leave you and either force you to wake up to what you were doing to her and the marriage, or divorce you.
> 
> Unfortunately, by cheating on you, she gave you the "victim" tag, which has enabled you to relentlessly abuse her since the affair. There is absolutely no excuse, even her affair, for you sleeping with other women, searching them out online, engaging in phone sex or building relationships with other women, etc. This is straight up abuse. You had/have a right to be upset, to feel hurt, to be angry, to lose trust in her, etc., but not to abuse her.
> 
> At this point, why haven't you made a decision? This part is just ridiculous. I could understand being angry and irrational in the immediate aftermath of discovery, but months and even a year or so later, it just doesn't make sense. Make up your mind already! The fact that she's taken your abuse all this time and hasn't moved on should be reason enough to give her a chance, but if you aren't willing to, then do everyone a favor and give her a divorce already.
> 
> Further, there is absolutely nothing wrong with her recognizing her rights and being prepared to defend herself in a potential divorce and get what is fair for herself. You seem to judge her defensive words and actions as being detrimental to the marriage and insulting to you, all the while you offensively attack her and the marriage left and right.
> 
> Just make a decision already!


I was not mean and heartless. If anything I was a doormat that slowly withdrew. I have defended my mean comments. I simply pointed out those were during the heat of the moment when we were fighting. Our counselor witnessed some of these in her office. I would shut down and after while I would blow up. Typical behavior of a dude in a failing marriage according to John Gottman.


----------



## ConanHub

Stang197 said:


> Ya I think that's it. She doesn't want to hear it. She wants to forget all of it.
> I too am not sure I will ever truly get over this. She thinks there is no way I couldn't, I just have to man up.


That is her sticking point and her problem to resolve.

She blew the marriage up and she needs to own it. Successful reconciliation can take years.

Meanwhile, why don't you detach a bit, clear your head and just work on becoming a better man.

You owe it to yourself and your kids to become the best man and father you can. Your wife's actions, or lack thereof, have no bearing on who you should be.

If after some time, totally up to you how much time, your wife won't respond to your calm and confident requests concerning her infidelity then at least you will be in a better place and can work on an amicable divorce.

You both need improvement. You can only control you. If she refuses to deal with her infidelity like a grownup then at least you will have come out of this as a better man and father.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stang197

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> My analogy was not meant to denote sex but rather any and all missing components of a healthy marriage. The "starving" was not meant to be taken literally and could represent a lack of help with the children, emotional investment, financial considerations, sharing time together and as a family, conversation, attention and many more. Upon deeper reflection I see your point and will refrain from posting further. I wish you and your wife every happiness.


So she gets this from a dude who puts down his wife in front of my wife and who has cheated on his wife from day one? Sounds like she found her White Knight.


----------



## vox.populi

Stang197 said:


> So she gets this from a dude who puts down his wife in front of my wife and who has cheated on his wife from day one? Sounds like she found her White Knight.


Exactly. That was a combination of two things. He courted her by only letting her see his good side. Then she responded similar to the way we all would with a flood of Dopamine, butterflies in her tummy, New Relationship Energy...call it whatever you want. It is addicting.

Our wives grew susceptible to courtship from outsiders overtime by starting to feel neglected.


----------



## Stang197

vox.populi said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya I do not think I will take any advice from someone who has actively "poached" any body's wife. Personally I think if you're so religious now maybe we should go old testament in this situation. How many wives would you poach then? Who are you to judge anyone. I am glad you have been entertained. For us it's heartbreaking.
> 
> 
> 
> I do apologize for the comment on how entertaining you have been. I would like to point out that you are wrong. This isn't heartbreaking. What you did when you divulged the affair to your daughter; that was heartbreaking.
> 
> Does your planet forbid the use of phrases like "Godspeed" and "thank my creator". I didn't mean to sound like one of those mean judgmental religious people.
> 
> What I meant to say is that I screw up. You screw up. We all screw up. Good thing for you that you seem to screw up less than me, less than Cali, less than who else. So good in fact that you sound like you have this situation completely under control. Good Job. Do you like Mustangs?
Click to expand...

I never said that I have screwed up less than anyone. I refuse to take any blame for her decision to have an affair. I have repeatedly said that am sorry about the things I have said to her.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Stang
> I AM NOT A CHILD MOLESTOR. Kinda creepy that you would even suggest that.


Stang, you tell your family in front of your son that you never wanted him, your resent the baby, give graphic details of your daughter’s mother having sex with the OM to the daughter that is a minor child, and you would quit working so you do not have to pay child support!

Everyone can come to their own conclusions but you have damaged the emotions of your children. If you do not do everything in your power to reverse some of that EMOTIONAL molestation that you have done to your children then you are a PUNK! And a LOSER!



Stang, I noticed that you completely ignored t my most important question to you. Here it is again below:


> Your young daughter has shown much more wisdom that you have by what she said. You said she said:
> She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.
> 
> Yes the children always feel it is their fault that their whole world is crashing. A child’s emotional health is in the hands of their parents until they get a lot older and even then the parents play a part.
> 
> *So now Stang you have another choice. Are you going to do what is right for your children or are you going to put your bitterness and vengeance ahead of your children?*


*Stang, are you afraid to answer the above question?*



*
Stang, you are so full of vengeance poison that you would rather defend yourself and point the finger at your adulterous wife than focus on your part to help your children.* It may still be possible for you to put your children first and do something constructive. Also, it is very important for you to get your vengeful poison out of your heart. You can ignore me all you want but then you will be eaten alive with bitterness and vengeance in the years to come. Look at your selfishness before the betrayal and now. Both are pathetic and both hurt your children. You have been a selfish punk before the affair and you are one now. *What do you think you will be like in the next year or two if you do not get that cancer vengence out of your soul?*


You said that you need to man up and you are correct. Man-up means that you take your losses and start to build yourself back up which means that you stop making everything all about you and your betraying wife and do something very positive for your innocent children.

*You are now faced with the two Bs. You are going to either get BETTER or much more BITTER!*


----------



## soccermom2three

GusPolinski said:


> Just waiting for the clown midget lawn crew at this point.


Yes, this ones got a little of everything from past posters.


----------



## soccermom2three

Cali, it sounds like the marriage was horrible before the affair. Telling you about his "future prospects", I don't think I could stay with threats like that and giving you no access to his phone, it's sounds like something was going on. Also, criticizing your appearance after having his babies and not helping out, wow, jerk move.


----------



## vox.populi

Stang197 said:


> I never said that I have screwed up less than anyone. I refuse to take any blame for her decision to have an affair. I have repeatedly said that am sorry about the things I have said to her.


The affair was not your fault. 3 years after my first D-Day I still have trouble accepting that fact myself.

We aren't to blame for our spouses affairs. We are to blame for our own behavior. My RAs did NOT cause my spouse to continue her affair but they didn't help our full reconciliation at all.

I have to know. Do you think that quite possibly you have unknowingly derailed R and smothered the marriage by not being kind and patient while keeping more than the affair in your list of grievances?

Sometimes I think that I may have done that to a slight degree. A good mechanism to preserve your own sanity is to try journaling all the angry words you would direct towards her and burning them periodically.

OTOH, do you believe that you truly are a kind gentle and patient husband?

I apologize for my lack of optimism regarding your case.


----------



## badmemory

To Cali,

I just read your first post. Yes, assuming what you said is true about him; he wasn't a very good husband.

But let me give you some advice, as I happen to be a betrayed husband myself.

If you really want to demonstrate true remorse to your husband, understand this. Everything that you mention that he did to make you "more vulnerable" to having an A, *IS* your justification. It shows your husband or anyone else that hears this, that you blame him for part or all of your PA. You can't insert a disclaimer that what you did wasn't justified, then rattle on for 3 paragraphs about how mistreated you were. It's beyond disingenuous. You had the option to divorce him. Instead you cheated on him.

Better to say; we had marital issues; and instead of divorcing him or trying to work on the marriage, I made the terrible choice to cheat on him. It was a moral failure on my part and I will regret it the rest of my life. 

Just my two cents.


----------



## vox.populi

Stang197 said:


> I refuse to take any blame for *her decision* to have an affair.


Hold on Stang. Screech. Wait a minute dude. Something just jumped out at me.

Please tell me that you don't spend too much time worrying about why she chose to cheat. Get past that $h1+ ASAP please.

In the end it can't be understood. OM could have been a 300 pound Eskimo midget with Danny DeVito's back hair. Sometimes a gal just needs to romp with a 300 pound Eskimo midget with Danny DeVito's back hair. It can't be understood.


----------



## Stang197

vox.populi said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that I have screwed up less than anyone. I refuse to take any blame for her decision to have an affair. I have repeatedly said that am sorry about the things I have said to her.
> 
> 
> 
> The affair was not your fault. 3 years after my first D-Day I still have trouble accepting that fact myself.
> 
> We aren't to blame for our spouses affairs. We are to blame for our own behavior. My RAs did NOT cause my spouse to continue her affair but they didn't help our full reconciliation at all.
> 
> I have to know. Do you think that quite possibly you have unknowingly derailed R and smothered the marriage by not being kind and patient while keeping more than the affair in your list of grievances?
> 
> Sometimes I think that I may have done that to a slight degree. A good mechanism to preserve your own sanity is to try journaling all the angry words you would direct towards her and burning them periodically.
> 
> OTOH, do you believe that you truly are a kind gentle and patient husband?
> 
> I apologize for my lack of optimism regarding your case.
Click to expand...

I think if she wants to R then she will NEED to work on more than just the affair. I am sorry if I have more grievances than just the affair. Her not cheating anymore is the bare minimum to R. I want a better marriage then we had before this happened. I don't think I will stay if the marriage is as bad as it was but now has infidelity in it too.


----------



## Stang197

vox.populi said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I refuse to take any blame for *her decision* to have an affair.
> 
> 
> 
> Hold on Stang. Screech. Wait a minute dude. Something just jumped out at me.
> 
> Please tell me that you don't spend too much time worrying about why she chose to cheat. Get past that $h1+ ASAP please.
> 
> In the end it can't be understood. OM could have been a 300 pound Eskimo midget with Danny DeVito's back hair. Sometimes a gal just needs to romp with a 300 pound Eskimo midget with Danny DeVito's back hair. It can't be understood.
Click to expand...

I simply said that because the consensus here seems to be that this is my fault.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> I simply said that because the consensus here seems to be that this is my fault.


There is no question that you have taken more than your fair share of sh!t around here. Some of it deserved, but a lot of it not. People here aren't used to BSs (especially BHs) fighting back with a vengeance. They are more accustomed to hand wringing BSs.

What amazes me (but maybe it shouldn't), is how your sweet angel of a wife is really being given a free pass here because you went back at her hard. She's even been given a free pass on asking you for oral sex right after her unprotected sex with the POSOM. The silence was deafening. A lot of what you did post affair, right or wrong, only happened because she was itching for some strange.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I simply said that because the consensus here seems to be that this is my fault.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no question that you have taken more than your fair share of sh!t around here. Some of it deserved, but a lot of it not. People here aren't used to BSs (especially BHs) fighting back with a vengeance. They are more accustomed to hand wringing BSs.
> 
> What amazes me (but maybe it shouldn't), is how your sweet angel of a wife is really being given a free pass here because you went back at her hard. She's even been given a free pass on asking you for oral sex right after her unprotected sex with the POSOM. The silence was deafening. A lot of what you did post affair, right or wrong, only happened because she was itching for some strange.
Click to expand...

I think part of the reason is she wrote and edited her post all day on a computer . She has time to shine it up and Polish it down. I have been responding on my phone, at work, and doing it quickly. I haven't had time to proof read and respond to every accusation.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I simply said that because the consensus here seems to be that this is my fault.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no question that you have taken more than your fair share of sh!t around here. Some of it deserved, but a lot of it not. People here aren't used to BSs (especially BHs) fighting back with a vengeance. They are more accustomed to hand wringing BSs.
> 
> What amazes me (but maybe it shouldn't), is how your sweet angel of a wife is really being given a free pass here because you went back at her hard. She's even been given a free pass on asking you for oral sex right after her unprotected sex with the POSOM. The silence was deafening. A lot of what you did post affair, right or wrong, only happened because she was itching for some strange.
Click to expand...

She is no angel. I haven't brought up all of her abuse to me. I have live with her. And I think she is still reading. But trust me she isn't cowering in the corner while the big bad husband is abusing her.


----------



## CTPlay

I truly hope you two reconcile and stay together. It would be a crime to have either of you partner up to some poor innocent soul.

Good luck.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> She is no angel. I haven't brought up all of her abuse to me. I have live with her. And I think she is still reading. But trust me she isn't cowering in the corner while the big bad husband is abusing her.


I used the term angel with sarcasm and I know that there is a lot more going on than you are posting. I picked up on the fact that you are replying quickly and when you can; not to much thought is going into the posts which is putting you at a disadvantage. In the end, she let someone else bang her, end of story.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is no angel. I haven't brought up all of her abuse to me. I have live with her. And I think she is still reading. But trust me she isn't cowering in the corner while the big bad husband is abusing her.
> 
> 
> 
> I used the term angel with sarcasm and I know that there is a lot more going on than you are posting. I picked up on the fact that you are replying quickly and when you can; not to much thought is going into the posts which is putting you at a disadvantage. In the end, she let someone else bang her, end of story.
Click to expand...

I could tell you where being sarcastic. Another thing, I never made fun of her stretch marks. That was her thing. They didn't bother me at all. I used to get defensive because I got heavy and she would call me fat. She would tell me that i was just like my dad and so on. Ask me if I really needed certain foods for dinner. Can't say that now. 
Either way I guess people will believe what they want. I agree that if I said everything that she says I did out of the blue, I would be a jerk. But that is simply not the case. Our counselor would agree that this woman does not fight fair. She has an extremely short fuse. And is abusive in a wide range of things. All of which yes I was considering leaving her for before. Probably would not have. I really thought after this maybe she would wake up, try the communication techniques taught to us by our counselor, and own her affair.


----------



## ConanHub

She doesn't really sound worth any more trouble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> I really thought after this maybe she would wake up, try the communication techniques taught to us by our counselor, and own her affair.


she's not going to own her affair, that became clear to me just by the way she responded (or didn't respond) to my questions. It was also crystal clear from her post because she glossed over it. 

Frankly, I don't give a **** what she says, she felt entitled to the affair, I could sense that in her writing. Did she give you every detail you asked for or is she holding back. Did she really ridicule you when you were exposing? All telltale signs of entitlement.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really thought after this maybe she would wake up, try the communication techniques taught to us by our counselor, and own her affair.
> 
> 
> 
> she's not going to own her affair, that became clear to me just by the way she responded (or didn't respond) to my questions. It was also crystal clear from her post because she glossed over it.
> 
> Frankly, I don't give a **** what she says, she felt entitled to the affair, I could sense that in her writing. Did she give you every detail you asked for or is she holding back. Did she really ridicule you when you were exposing? All telltale signs of entitlement.
Click to expand...

She admitted to the affair after about a week. Took about 3 weeks to get details about no protection. Yes, she was pissed when I exposed to the OM's wife. She told her family very humbly. She has since wrote my family and hers what sounded like heartfelt apologies. She didn't justify anything to them. As far as if I got all the details, I will never know. It all seems to fit the evidence I gathered.


----------



## Stang197

Mr Blunt said:


> By Stang
> I AM NOT A CHILD MOLESTOR. Kinda creepy that you would even suggest that.
> 
> 
> 
> Stang, you tell your family in front of your son that you never wanted him, your resent the baby, give graphic details of your daughter?s mother having sex with the OM to the daughter that is a minor child, and you would quit working so you do not have to pay child support!
> 
> Everyone can come to their own conclusions but you have damaged the emotions of your children. If you do not do everything in your power to reverse some of that EMOTIONAL molestation that you have done to your children then you are a PUNK! And a LOSER!
> 
> 
> 
> Stang, I noticed that you completely ignored t my most important question to you. Here it is again below:
> 
> 
> 
> Your young daughter has shown much more wisdom that you have by what she said. You said she said:
> She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.
> 
> Yes the children always feel it is their fault that their whole world is crashing. A child?s emotional health is in the hands of their parents until they get a lot older and even then the parents play a part.
> 
> *So now Stang you have another choice. Are you going to do what is right for your children or are you going to put your bitterness and vengeance ahead of your children?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Stang, are you afraid to answer the above question?*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Stang, you are so full of vengeance poison that you would rather defend yourself and point the finger at your adulterous wife than focus on your part to help your children.* It may still be possible for you to put your children first and do something constructive. Also, it is very important for you to get your vengeful poison out of your heart. You can ignore me all you want but then you will be eaten alive with bitterness and vengeance in the years to come. Look at your selfishness before the betrayal and now. Both are pathetic and both hurt your children. You have been a selfish punk before the affair and you are one now. *What do you think you will be like in the next year or two if you do not get that cancer vengence out of your soul?*
> 
> 
> You said that you need to man up and you are correct. Man-up means that you take your losses and start to build yourself back up which means that you stop making everything all about you and your betraying wife and do something very positive for your innocent children.
> 
> *You are now faced with the two Bs. You are going to either get BETTER or much more BITTER!*
Click to expand...

I didn't ignore the question. There was a ton of replies and I tried to answer all the best I could given the time restraints I have. At this point I am not sure what is best for the kids. The overwhelming response here is that I should walk away and never speak to them again because I am an abuser. Cali and i had this discussion tonight and she thinks we need to hold it together. I do want to do what's best for the kids. I love them both. Despite the tone of this thread, I still love my wife. I think she loves me. II know we have to keep our problems private from the kids. We have been doing a lot better in that regard. Keep in mind most of what has been posted regarding the kids was stuff that happened 15 months ago or longer. Regardless they are aware that there is turmoil in this house.


----------



## happy as a clam

Despite her threat to end the marriage if Stang keeps posting here, Stang is still posting.

Maybe it really is time to put a fork in this...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By Stang*
> At this point I am not sure what is best for the kids. The overwhelming response here is that I should walk away and never speak to them again because I am an abuser.
> I do want to do what's best for the kids. I love them both.


Stang, I know I have been very rough on you but that is because you have innocent children. I am sure you love your children but you have to get the poison out of your heart so that you can love them better. I go ballistic when I see children suffering because of great strife in the parents. I speak to you from experience not theory but that is my story and this thread is about you and your family. 

What really got me going bat-shyt crazy are the posts below:





> Your young daughter has shown much more wisdom that you have by what she said. You said she said:
> She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.
> 
> Yes the children always feel it is their fault that their whole world is crashing. A child’s emotional health is in the hands of their parents until they get a lot older and even then the parents play a part.
> 
> So now Stang you have another choice. *Are you going to do what is right for your children or are you going to put your bitterness and vengeance ahead of your children?*



I know for a fact that children, especially young children, will think that the strife is their fault. I saw that with my own eyes with my own children. They are young and not able to think in the abstract and when their parents are ripping each other to shreds it plays hell on their emotions and *it can scar them permanently!* It is hard enough to see two married couples tearing away at each other to the point of almost total destruction but *to have an innocent child have to pay that price is inhumane!*

I have never said that you should walk away from your children. I have been real hard on you because you are a hard nut to crack and full of vengeance. *What I have been trying to do is to get you to think about your children more than the hurt that you and your wife did to each other.*

You have made some very bad choices but you can recover with your children because they are still young. Here below are a few reprinted posts from me to you that I hope that you consider:


> It may still be possible for you to put your children first and do something constructive
> 
> The 180 I am talking about is for you to have a good talk with yourself and stop focusing on how bad your wife did you and start fixing yourself! That is the first step. Your wife will have to mostly fix herself with the right help.* You cannot fix her so do not harm her anymore so that your children will have a chance at getting better*


I will add that, you know how to make your children your top priority so get with it!! Yes it will take a sacrifice on your part and you will probably get drawn back into the vengeance that you have for your wife but put a stop to that vengeance and get back to your children.

It may also be possible for you and your wife to patch things up but you will need a LOT of help and you both will have to be focused on how to get yourselves better and not be so possessed with pointing out the horrible things that you each did to each other. You are going to have to get good help and then you are going to have to DO WHAT THEY SAY! Stop thinking that you can get out of this by yourself. However, right now I hope you put the children as number one then come sell the rest.

*There is a LOT of hope for your children so help them have a good life!*


----------



## aine

Stang197 said:


> She told me she doesn't want to answer to a bunch of strangers. She said if I keep posting she is done with the marriage. I don't think she wants to admit to herself this is what she wanted to do. She would rather throw everyone under the bus.


Stang, both of you are acting like spoilt brats, you both did a lot of damage to each other and your poor suffering kids are stuck in the middle. If either of you had a heart you would stop the mud slinging and back and forwards, 'she did this, 'he did that, she was worse than me, he did so much more, blah blah blah.

Just for one minute, be a man, stop wallowing in your despair, bitterness and resentment and decide what is best for your overall family. You and she cannot fix this, you need major intervention. If not just get a divorce and get on with your lives. She needs to own her actions as you need to own yours. Neither of you are blameless so now you have to decide do you move on together or apart.


----------



## aine

Stang197 said:


> Ya I think that's it. She doesn't want to hear it. She wants to forget all of it.
> I too am not sure I will ever truly get over this. She thinks there is no way I couldn't, I just have to man up.


Just hear yourself Stang, 'oh woe is me, poor me, the slighted H' what about you and the escort, the online sex, the EAs,

FFS GET OVER YOURSELF!

There are people on here who are stoking the fires, yes your WW did something terrible and should own her actions, but so did you! If you cannot truly get over what she did, perhaps she can never truly get over what you did? You have to stop being so inward looking, and look at things from the outside, from her perspective, this is not ALL ABOUT YOU! I think you are incapable of having any empathy, you have thrown your kids under the bus too. My conclusion, you are a selfish man looking for empathy here but not owning your own s***!


----------



## eastsouth2000

people cant seem to grasp that the marriage is different from the family.

marriage is separate from the family.

family is mother father and children.
marriage is husband and wife.

I did not see an issue regarding the children in all of this they were not involved and no children where harmed.
Note:Kids were never thrown under any bus. If someone did that it would be the wife.

A betrayed has every right to his way of coping with an affair.
I guess wife opened the marriage somehow. You cant put that genie back into the bottle.

After the way WW treated BH I dont see an issue of him sleeping with that Escort.



aine said:


> My conclusion, you are a selfish man looking for empathy here but not owning your own s***!


And who's to blame for that him. I seriously say not! ... WW is to blame.
What I see is a broken man destroyed by an unfaithful wife.
After what his wife did how can man understand fidelity and monogamy?

He needs serious counseling.


----------



## Stang197

happy as a clam said:


> Despite her threat to end the marriage if Stang keeps posting here, Stang is still posting.
> 
> Maybe it really is time to put a fork in this...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If this would cause divorce after all that's happened...


----------



## The Middleman

eastsouth2000 said:


> Note:Kids were never thrown under any bus. If someone did that it would be the wife.
> 
> *Exactly, too many people here have lost sight that none of this would have happened if his wife didn't feel the need to scratch an itch she had in her pants*
> 
> A betrayed has every right to his way of coping with an affair.
> I guess wife opened the marriage somehow. You cant put that genie back into the bottle.
> 
> *No you can't. However she came here, give a well written, one and done, diatribe about how Stang is the current manifestation of Satan, but won't address or explain the affair. She doesn't want to explain it to a bunch of strangers. But it's OK for her to accuse her husband of all kinds of abuses but won't discuss why and how she destroyed two families. She's a real piece of work and I don't understand why Stang is still with her.
> 
> I don't take anything she said about Stang at face value because:
> 
> 1. She is doing nothing but blame shifting and
> 2. She's a coward for not answering questions of her affair. Also,
> 3. As a cheater, she lies. That's what they do best.
> 
> I will only accept as true what Stang admits to; and he did admit to a lot of bad stuff. *
> 
> After the way WW treated BH I dont see an issue of him sleeping with that Escort.
> *Me neither*
> 
> 
> And who's to blame for that him. I seriously say not! ... WW is to blame.
> What I see is a broken man destroyed by an unfaithful wife.
> After what his wife did how can man understand fidelity and monogamy?
> 
> He needs serious counseling.


----------



## eastsouth2000

wait. his wife posted here where?


----------



## Stang197

eastsouth2000 said:


> wait. his wife posted here where?


She posted under "Cryingincali". About the middle of this thread.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> eastsouth2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note:Kids were never thrown under any bus. If someone did that it would be the wife.
> 
> *Exactly, too many people here have lost sight that none of this would have happened if his wife didn't feel the need to scratch an itch she had in her pants*
> 
> A betrayed has every right to his way of coping with an affair.
> I guess wife opened the marriage somehow. You cant put that genie back into the bottle.
> 
> *No you can't. However she came here, give a well written, one and done, diatribe about how Stang is the current manifestation of Satan, but won't address or explain the affair. She doesn't want to explain it to a bunch of strangers. But it's OK for her to accuse her husband of all kinds of abuses but won't discuss why and how she destroyed two families. She's a real piece of work and I don't understand why Stang is still with her.
> 
> I don't take anything she said about Stang at face value because:
> 
> 1. She is doing nothing but blame shifting and
> 2. She's a coward for not questions of her affair. Also,
> 3. As a cheater, she lies. That's what they do best.
> 
> I will only accept as true what Stang admits to; and he did admit to a lot of bad stuff. *
> 
> After the way WW treated BH I dont see an issue of him sleeping with that Escort.
> *Me neither*
> 
> 
> And who's to blame for that him. I seriously say not! ... WW is to blame.
> What I see is a broken man destroyed by an unfaithful wife.
> After what his wife did how can man understand fidelity and monogamy?
> 
> He needs serious counseling.
Click to expand...

I did go overboard in some areas, especially in the exposure of the affair to the kids. But I am no Satan. If I am as bad as she says than why is she desperately trying to keep me from moving on?


----------



## eastsouth2000

wait... after reading your wife's post can i take back my post.. i just read the first page and commented sorry! my apologies!
-dude seriously stop calling your wife name's ok. it hurts sometimes. but make her feel loved again refrain from calling her names. its hard but you can work on it.

continue to work on your marriage. go to counseling often.

continue to love your children and your wife.

remember this [husband&wife] is different from [mother,father&kids]
you need to invest on both family & your marriage. and treat them equally.

making a happy marriage will make a happy family.
and a happy family , gives children a happy childhood!


----------



## The Middleman

eastsouth2000 said:


> wait... after reading your wife's post can i take back my post.. i just read the first page and commented sorry! my apologies!
> -dude seriously stop calling your wife name's ok. it hurts sometimes. but make her feel loved again refrain from calling her names. its hard but you can work on it.
> 
> continue to work on your marriage. go to counseling often.
> 
> continue to love your children and your wife.
> 
> remember this [husband&wife] is different from [mother,father&kids]
> you need to invest on both family & your marriage. and treat them equally.
> 
> making a happy marriage will make a happy family.
> and a happy family , gives children a happy childhood!


Dude, don't take what she says at face value. Did you notice that she didn't address what she did? This is classic blame shifting and your falling for it.

Stang, if your cheating wife won't address the details of what she did, maybe you should for her. And you should do it with the same attention to facts and details that she did in her post, including all post DDay bullsh!t.


----------



## happyman64

Stang

Have you and your wife sat down lately and had an honest conversation with each other?

You say she is remorseful.

Are you?

You evened the score with a hooker. So drop the affair for now.

You both have heaped enough hurt on your family at this time. When do you both say enough is enough.

If you feel she is remorseful and wants to stay with you I think you should put as much work in the marriage as you did to even the score.

You both owe it to each other and your children.

If you did your research you will both find out that these kinds of issue come up fairly often in marriages that have a special needs in the family.

Very often.

You two need to draw a truce. Stop slinging the crap, own your sh!t and make a conscious decision to respectful to each other and love your family.

Give it a year of honest hard work to see if your marriage can be saved.

Now get unstuck and talk about how you two can move forward.

No more lies. No more EA's, PA's or mud slinging. From either of you.

HM


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> eastsouth2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> wait... after reading your wife's post can i take back my post.. i just read the first page and commented sorry! my apologies!
> -dude seriously stop calling your wife name's ok. it hurts sometimes. but make her feel loved again refrain from calling her names. its hard but you can work on it.
> 
> continue to work on your marriage. go to counseling often.
> 
> continue to love your children and your wife.
> 
> remember this [husband&wife] is different from [mother,father&kids]
> you need to invest on both family & your marriage. and treat them equally.
> 
> making a happy marriage will make a happy family.
> and a happy family , gives children a happy childhood!
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, don't take what she says at face value. Did you notice that she didn't address what she did? This is classic blame shifting and your falling for it.
> 
> Stang, if your cheating wife won't address the details of what she did, maybe you should for her. And you should do it with the same attention to facts and details that she did in her post, including all post DDay bullsh!t.
Click to expand...

Ya I think I will. I am at work right now so it will have to be later. I did the basics but it seems everyone has made me the bad guy because she included all the stuff said during fights and got super specific. My posts were general including her affair. I wasn't specific about mine either. Just the basic facts. For that I have been called a liar. My wife accused me of lying from the time I got home. Not intentional on my part. In no way did I purposely lie at all. But yes she got specific and people thought I was a monster. I have loved and taken care of my wife for 10 years. She seemed like she loved me. Things fell apart after our son was born. I think we were both seriously depressed. He was born deaf and had deformities and has been in and out of the hospital constantly.


----------



## cdbaker

Stang197 said:


> I was not mean and heartless. If anything I was a doormat that slowly withdrew. I have defended my mean comments. I simply pointed out those were during the heat of the moment when we were fighting. Our counselor witnessed some of these in her office. I would shut down and after while I would blow up. Typical behavior of a dude in a failing marriage according to John Gottman.


It feels like you haven't responded to a lot of the questions that have been posed here. You've done a lot of incredibly offensive things, especially after the affair. Before the affair, it sounds like (unless you are going to completely deny your wife's accusations) you were a pretty poor husband. That in and of itself is bad, but not the end of the world if you can come to realize it, acknowledge it, and make a commitment to improving. Instead it feels like you've focuses solely on her affair and how she has hurt you, and then repeatedly trying to get revenge on her by hurting her back in a number of ways.

You say you were a doormat who withdrew, but haven't really explained what it was she was doing before the affair that caused that, and if "withdrew" means treating her the way she says you did, then that was STILL awful behavior. I can't understand how anyone would think that would make anything better in a relationship.

You've mentioned that you have apologized for some of your actions, but I don't know if it's clear what exactly you feel remorse for, especially when you seem to repeatedly defend most of those same actions in following posts. Your posts are driving your wife to lean more towards divorce not because she's seeing the opinions of others, but she's seeing that you aren't taking responsibility for hardly anything, and she's seeing us point out how crazy that is, so she's probably realizing that the situation is hopeless.



Honestly man I'm trying to help. I was in a similar situation. I was a pretty crappy husband too. No I was never violent, never yelled or spoke to her meanly, never cheated, gambled, drank too much, used drugs, I worked hard and provided, etc. But I was selfish, I didn't respect her feelings, I manipulated her and tried to make myself feel superior by making her look/feel bad, I left her feeling undesired, used, and unloved for years. Then she slept with an old friend of hers who found her on facebook, then engaged in an affair with a married parent of one of our daughter's classmates at school. CERTAINLY what she did was wrong, and there is really no excuse for that and she had to own it and ultimately do what she could to repair that betrayal, but I also can't dismiss the negative things I did prior to that which left her so vulnerable to the interest of another man either. My wife didn't cheat because she just wanted to sleep with someone else, or because she was bored, or because she didn't care for me anymore or anything like that. She cheated because she was STARVED for affection, and any man who came along with only a few kind words would instantly make her feel euphoric, and realize how unhappy she was. Obviously what she SHOULD have done was ignore the other guys and demand that we get into marriage counseling or file for divorce from me, but instead she was weak and she gave in.

As for me, she put me in a situation similar to the one you were in. I was the somewhat crappy husband who didn't realize it, when all our friends and family thought I was a really fantastic guy, who now had a cheating wife and everyone knew it. INSTANTLY everyone you know feels sympathy for you and drowns her in judgement, immediately you are a saint if you don't immediately kick her to the curb, your ego gets inflated and you feel like you have every right in the world to look down upon her and blame her for all your pain. As the adulterous spouse, she probably lost the support of a lot of people as well. She can try to explain how your poor treatment for years is what led to her being so weak, but to most folks, none of that really matters anymore once you've cheated. Honestly it would have been EASIER for your wife to just go with the divorce at that point, but instead she stayed and put up with your every demand in order to try to save the marriage, all the while your past failings were mostly ignored. In my case, my wife took the easier exit and left me, feeling that with my newly inflated ego, support of our family and friends, and inability to convince anyone of my own issues (especially me), that to stay and try to rebuild would be a hopeless and miserable waste of time. Who knows, she might have been right.


So seriously, make a decision to either give up on the marriage and give her a divorce, or commit to finding forgiveness for her, open up your mind to the reality that you have shared in the breakdown of your marriage, and start treating your wife as someone who is worthy of honor, love and respect. I'm not saying her actions should be forgotten or that she should have earned your trust back yet, but if she is there and willing to listen and work towards rebuilding the marriage and your trust, then she is deserving of being treated with respect now.

Either way, just show some humility and quit being a jerk. By refusing to move past it after this much time, you're just making everyone miserable (your wife and kids), but most of all you.


----------



## cdbaker

Stang197 said:


> I agree I own half of the problems pre-affair. My issue is she wants me own all of the problems before and after. She was just a innocent abused snow white that has been pushed into all of this. Trust me that I am no the only one blamed for the affair. She blames the OM too. He was just so smart and tricked her.


Hey I think I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. I'm just not feeling a whole lot of remorse either. It seems like your wife did all the right things once the affair has been exposed, and put up with all of your demands afterwards as well. To me this means that she has shown genuine remorse, and has proven herself willing to accept the consequences of her actions. I don't think she's trying to "all of the problems" on you, I think she's just trying to make sure you really truly understand and accept that not everything was her fault either, so it probably feels like she's being defensive to you.

Certainly it isn't all your fault. But why are you still here throwing her under the bus as if you just discovered the affair yesterday? If you truly acknowledge even 50% of the responsibility for the marital problems (not the affair itself), then why haven't you been owning that and taking steps to change your habits/behaviors? It feels like you just want your wife (and daughter) to suffer for a long time because you feel entitled to it after the hurt she caused you? Trust me, the "eye for an eye" approach won't last long in a marriage.


----------



## cdbaker

badmemory said:


> To Cali,
> 
> I just read your first post. Yes, assuming what you said is true about him; he wasn't a very good husband.
> 
> But let me give you some advice, as I happen to be a betrayed husband myself.
> 
> If you really want to demonstrate true remorse to your husband, understand this. Everything that you mention that he did to make you "more vulnerable" to having an A, *IS* your justification. It shows your husband or anyone else that hears this, that you blame him for part or all of your PA. You can't insert a disclaimer that what you did wasn't justified, then rattle on for 3 paragraphs about how mistreated you were. It's beyond disingenuous. You had the option to divorce him. Instead you cheated on him.
> 
> Better to say; we had marital issues; and instead of divorcing him or trying to work on the marriage, I made the terrible choice to cheat on him. It was a moral failure on my part and I will regret it the rest of my life.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Fair points badmemory, you touch on an issue that can make these situations very confusing. I'm also a betrayed spouse, and I know exactly what you are talking about. Perhaps different terminology is needed in a situation like this? The situation being:

She cheated on me (as did your wife and OP's), which was absolutely wrong, and there is really no excuse that justifies that choice. Period, end of story, right?

On the other hand, in my case (and in OP's, I think) I came to realize how many different ways I had been failing my wife as a husband prior to her cheating. I can recognize that my actions/choices/behaviors left her feeling alone, unloved, undesirable and used for several years prior to the affair. Had we gone to marriage counseling then, I'm confident that the counselor would have pinned me for 75-80% of the problems. This is what left my wife so vulnerable to the sudden interest of another man. She was so starved for affection and lonely, that she couldn't help herself and gave in.

So she knows what she did was wrong, and there is no excuse good enough to warrant her decision. At the same time however, doesn't my prior bad behavior/choices/treatment of her in the years prior mean anything? If she tries to explain that to anyone after the affair, I can completely see what you mean about how that will come across sounding like she's trying to justify what she did. Like she's trying to make excuses. But honestly, isn't it fair to bring those issues up?

Trying to think of an analogy here... If someone gets caught shoplifting from a grocery store, then that person is guilty of a crime and warrants punishment right? Theft is wrong, period, right? No question. But what if that person hasn't eaten in a week and felt they had no other options? Absolutely what they did is still very wrong, but isn't that additional detail worth knowing? If not legally relevant, then isn't it at least morally/ethically relevant? Perhaps that person isn't seeking to justify their decision as acceptable or right, but isn't it a mitigating factor? Compare this person/crime to the person who tries to steal a video game from best buy, are their crimes equally wrong from a moral/ethical standpoint?

I'm just trying to point out that I think it's perfectly reasonable for her to point out the other relevant circumstances involved in her marriage that led her to what she did, without it meaning that she is purely trying to avoid responsibility for her actions or completely justify it.


----------



## cdbaker

Stang197 said:


> At this point I am not sure what is best for the kids. The overwhelming response here is that I should walk away and never speak to them again because I am an abuser. Cali and i had this discussion tonight and she thinks we need to hold it together. I do want to do what's best for the kids. I love them both. Despite the tone of this thread, I still love my wife. I think she loves me. II know we have to keep our problems private from the kids. We have been doing a lot better in that regard. Keep in mind most of what has been posted regarding the kids was stuff that happened 15 months ago or longer. Regardless they are aware that there is turmoil in this house.


Sorry, last post for now.

Man if you love your wife and kids... then commit to them and start treating them better. Why? Because they are your wife and kids. If you can't do that because of past issues, then you just need to get the divorce, but you can't just stay in limbo like this forever. It's really as simple as this, if you love your wife and kids and wants to give the marriage a chance then you just have to make a decision to forgive the past and start treating her differently from today forward. The past is the past, no one can change it. The future is going to be what you make of it and a positive future CAN start today, if you can get "past the past."

I think you want to try to save the marriage because you love your wife, and it sounds like she wants to save it as well because she loves you too. If that's the case, make that decision, and sit down and talk to your wife about what kind of things she would like to see you do to help improve the marriage, and you can explain to her the kinds of things that you'd like to see from her as well. Anything you've been doing as a result of her affair like any involvement with other women has to end immediately. You can't commit half way. No more punishments for her. DO THIS. Show your daughter what it means to be a man, and that people can change and find forgiveness. Your wife will have to do the same, and time will tell if you can both pull it off, but give each other a chance.

If you can't do this, then you need to get the divorce and end the misery. What you are both doing has just made you both miserable and is absolutely impacting your impressionable daughter.


----------



## badmemory

cdbaker said:


> I'm just trying to point out that I think it's perfectly reasonable for her to point out the other relevant circumstances involved in her marriage that led her to what she did, without it meaning that she is purely trying to avoid responsibility for her actions or completely justify it.


I guess then we'll have to agree to disagree.


----------



## cdbaker

badmemory said:


> I guess then we'll have to agree to disagree.


Well, I'm trying to understand you here. So since I don't know your story, use mine as an example. Do you feel that my extensively poor behavior/treatment of my wife prior to her affair has nothing to do with her decision to cheat? Is it not relevant at all? Was it wrong for her to bring up?

I could be wrong, but I know a few marriage counselors and I have seen a few myself. They've all confirmed for me that a part of the forgiveness/reconciliation process between couples that have suffered infidelity is to try to work through the various factors that contributed to the one or both partners that committed the infidelity. In fact they used those words, calling them "contributing factors." Your thoughts?


----------



## naiveonedave

cdbaker said:


> Well, I'm trying to understand you here. So since I don't know your story, use mine as an example. Do you feel that my extensively poor behavior/treatment of my wife prior to her affair has nothing to do with her decision to cheat? Is it not relevant at all? Was it wrong for her to bring up?
> 
> I could be wrong, but I know a few marriage counselors and I have seen a few myself. They've all confirmed for me that a part of the forgiveness/reconciliation process between couples that have suffered infidelity is to try to work through the various factors that contributed to the one or both partners that committed the infidelity. In fact they used those words, calling them "contributing factors." Your thoughts?


standard tam advice - you own 50% of the crap in the marriage, the WS owns 100% of the infidelity. Reasoning: you chose to throw a bomb on your marriage by cheating, there are 1000s of other ways, that didn't include infidelity, that could have been done to 'wake up' the BS.


----------



## Stang197

cdbaker said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I am not sure what is best for the kids. The overwhelming response here is that I should walk away and never speak to them again because I am an abuser. Cali and i had this discussion tonight and she thinks we need to hold it together. I do want to do what's best for the kids. I love them both. Despite the tone of this thread, I still love my wife. I think she loves me. II know we have to keep our problems private from the kids. We have been doing a lot better in that regard. Keep in mind most of what has been posted regarding the kids was stuff that happened 15 months ago or longer. Regardless they are aware that there is turmoil in this house.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, last post for now.
> 
> Man if you love your wife and kids... then commit to them and start treating them better. Why? Because they are your wife and kids. If you can't do that because of past issues, then you just need to get the divorce, but you can't just stay in limbo like this forever. It's really as simple as this, if you love your wife and kids and wants to give the marriage a chance then you just have to make a decision to forgive the past and start treating her differently from today forward. The past is the past, no one can change it. The future is going to be what you make of it and a positive future CAN start today, if you can get "past the past."
> 
> I think you want to try to save the marriage because you love your wife, and it sounds like she wants to save it as well because she loves you too. If that's the case, make that decision, and sit down and talk to your wife about what kind of things she would like to see you do to help improve the marriage, and you can explain to her the kinds of things that you'd like to see from her as well. Anything you've been doing as a result of her affair like any involvement with other women has to end immediately. You can't commit half way. No more punishments for her. DO THIS. Show your daughter what it means to be a man, and that people can change and find forgiveness. Your wife will have to do the same, and time will tell if you can both pull it off, but give each other a chance.
> 
> If you can't do this, then you need to get the divorce and end the misery. What you are both doing has just made you both miserable and is absolutely impacting your impressionable daughter.
Click to expand...

Ya your right. This is the struggle. I think I would commit if we could improve our communication. She is a hothead and I am a bonehead. I have been trying to be easier going by not sweating the small stuff. But I have gone to far in a lot of areas. I find it hard to be emotionally involved with her. She interprets this as a complete detachment (which it probably is). I have trouble with the feeling (despite what I have done to her in retaliation) that I am a chump for staying with her. I completely screwed up by looking for attention elsewhere because now I have a grass is greener complex. I am aware that I would carry my problems with me to another relationship.


----------



## Stang197

naiveonedave said:


> cdbaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I'm trying to understand you here. So since I don't know your story, use mine as an example. Do you feel that my extensively poor behavior/treatment of my wife prior to her affair has nothing to do with her decision to cheat? Is it not relevant at all? Was it wrong for her to bring up?
> 
> I could be wrong, but I know a few marriage counselors and I have seen a few myself. They've all confirmed for me that a part of the forgiveness/reconciliation process between couples that have suffered infidelity is to try to work through the various factors that contributed to the one or both partners that committed the infidelity. In fact they used those words, calling them "contributing factors." Your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> standard tam advice - you own 50% of the crap in the marriage, the WS owns 100% of the infidelity. Reasoning: you chose to throw a bomb on your marriage by cheating, there are 1000s of other ways, that didn't include infidelity, that could have been done to 'wake up' the BS.
Click to expand...

100% agree. We could have worked through our problems much easier. That is why I don't think she really cared about fixing the marriage. She did what she wanted to do. I feel like she owed it to everyone involved to seriously wake me up to how she was feeling (by initiating counseling or proceeding to separate). I had no idea how she was feeling. We would fight (both of are not good at fighting fair and both would try to hurt each other verbally) and then apologize and make up.


----------



## The Middleman

@cdbaker As someone who seems to have a good understanding of why a wayward might go down a cheating path, can you please explain to us why Stang's fine & upstanding but wronged wife might do this:



Stang197 said:


> Also one the point of leaving stuff out.... She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion". Does that make her a liar? Sounds like an abuser to me.


Maybe you can explain it because I can't figure it out and she certainly won't explain when asked. Can anyone?


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> @cdbaker As someone who seems to have a good understanding of why a wayward might go down a cheating path, can you please explain to us why Stang's fine & upstanding but wronged wife might do this:
> 
> 
> 
> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also one the point of leaving stuff out.... She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion". Does that make her a liar? Sounds like an abuser to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can explain it because I can't figure it out and she certainly won't explain when asked. Can anyone?
Click to expand...

Ya I know. Nobody has even mentioned that. Beyond disgusting. People have pointed out how sleeping with an escort is disgusting. But I did that with her being fully aware. Besides I SLEPT WITH HER. had nothing to do with my wife's mouth. This little stunt involved my mouth, tongue, ect. Absolutely sick. Not to mention this man was every bit of a ***** as the escort. He had cheated on his wife from day one.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> Ya I know. Nobody has even mentioned that. Beyond disgusting. People have pointed out how sleeping with an escort is disgusting. But I did that with her being fully aware. Besides I SLEPT WITH HER. had nothing to do with my wife's mouth. This little stunt involved my mouth, tongue, ect. Absolutely sick. Not to mention this man was every bit of a ***** as the escort. He had cheated on his wife from day one.


I sincerely hope your wife has given at least you a sufficient explanation for doing so thing as disgusting as that, otherwise you are truly sleeping with a monster.

I'm even more astounded that no one here says anything about that but instead focuses on the one posting of your wife, a know cheater, and they take her words as gospel.


----------



## badmemory

cdbaker said:


> Well, I'm trying to understand you here. So since I don't know your story, use mine as an example. Do you feel that my extensively poor behavior/treatment of my wife prior to her affair has nothing to do with her decision to cheat? Is it not relevant at all? Was it wrong for her to bring up?
> 
> I could be wrong, but I know a few marriage counselors and I have seen a few myself. They've all confirmed for me that a part of the forgiveness/reconciliation process between couples that have suffered infidelity is to try to work through the various factors that contributed to the one or both partners that committed the infidelity. In fact they used those words, calling them "contributing factors." Your thoughts?


I don't won't this to turn into a threadjack, but I'll give you my quick thoughts. If one believes that there is no excuse, no justification for cheating; then there is no discussion to have about what led the WS to do it. They did it because they were morally bankrupt and chose to cheat instead of "talk or walk". So, the better question is; what did I do that led to our marital problems, so that if we R, we can have a better marriage going forward?

Do you think that it matters that Ray Rice's wife might have had done some things that made him more susceptible to punch her out cold? Should she have tried to "assault proof" her marriage? Wrong is wrong.

The only true way to affair proof a marriage, is to marry someone with the integrity to honor their wedding vows.


----------



## cdbaker

Stang197 said:


> The Middleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> @cdbaker As someone who seems to have a good understanding of why a wayward might go down a cheating path, can you please explain to us why Stang's fine & upstanding but wronged wife might do this:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can explain it because I can't figure it out and she certainly won't explain when asked. Can anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> Ya I know. Nobody has even mentioned that. Beyond disgusting. People have pointed out how sleeping with an escort is disgusting. But I did that with her being fully aware. Besides I SLEPT WITH HER. had nothing to do with my wife's mouth. This little stunt involved my mouth, tongue, ect. Absolutely sick. Not to mention this man was every bit of a ***** as the escort. He had cheated on his wife from day one.
Click to expand...

 @The Middleman: Do what? Let her husband go down on her? What does that matter? So once she has cheated, she shouldn't be sexual with her husband anymore? Or is there a time-out period? Are you asking why she didn't stop her husband from going down on her? Why would she? We don't know how much time had passed since she was with the other man, if she had showered, if she had the opportunity to deter her husband without revealing why, if the OM used protection, etc.

Further, I never said she was a fine and upstanding wife. I haven't blamed Stang for the affair, I haven't said that he was 100% responsible, and *I have* said that what his wife did was absolutely 100% wrong. Stang has said that his wife wasn't perfect prior to the affair either, and I have no reason not to believe that, so I'm sure she also contributed to the marital problems prior to that point.

Read and understand what I am saying, not what what I have said extrapolated to a degree that I did not write. Without her side of that situation, we can't know the exact details, but why does it even matter? I agree that what she did was wrong. She was cheating on him, which is about the worst sin a person can commit against their spouse. She knows what she did was wrong. If you or Stang feel that this particular piece of the story makes what she did substantially more wrong, well, just add it to the list. They're all related. Why is this piece even being discussed this much? Does that mean he's willing to forgive everything else, but just not sure about whether he can forgive her for letting him go down on him after having been sexual with the OM? THAT's the issue that is holding this up?


----------



## cdbaker

Stang197 said:


> 100% agree. We could have worked through our problems much easier. That is why I don't think she really cared about fixing the marriage. She did what she wanted to do. I feel like she owed it to everyone involved to seriously wake me up to how she was feeling (by initiating counseling or proceeding to separate). I had no idea how she was feeling. We would fight (both of are not good at fighting fair and both would try to hurt each other verbally) and then apologize and make up.


You are absolutely right about what she should have done. She should have taken the more difficult step of trying to force a change in the relationship via counseling, more communication, etc. or just left you and filed for divorce, rather than cheating. I also believe that you had no idea she was THAT unhappy, and that everything came out as a big shock to you. But did she not care about fixing the marriage? My guess is that she did care, but after years of trying and not getting anywhere, she was feeling defeated and hopeless. I don't think she woke up one day thinking, "Screw him, I'm just going to go get me some elsewhere."



The Middleman said:


> I sincerely hope your wife has given at least you a sufficient explanation for doing so thing as disgusting as that, otherwise you are truly sleeping with a monster.
> 
> I'm even more astounded that no one here says anything about that but instead focuses on the one posting of your wife, a know cheater, and they take her words as gospel.


Well don't forget, Stang cheated too, and did so repeatedly with a multitude of different women over a longer period of time. Maybe much of it wasn't behind her back, but cheating is cheating. In fact, some would say that forcing her to watch (at least with the escort) and know about the other cheating (his online dating relationships, phone sex, maybe more, etc.) could be worse than discovering a secret affair that is quickly abandoned. Really though I'm not trying to say that either one of them was worse than the other, but it would be grossly unfair to suggest that Stang's cheating wasn't as bad as his wife's.

Honestly I don't think either Stang or his wife are beacons of integrity. I'm just looking at what he said, and what she said, and running them through my own filter of experiences and prior TAM history here to gauge as best I can what the truth is most likely to be, just like everyone else does. I'm just one opinion though of course.


----------



## Stang197

cdbaker said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Middleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> @cdbaker As someone who seems to have a good understanding of why a wayward might go down a cheating path, can you please explain to us why Stang's fine & upstanding but wronged wife might do this:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can explain it because I can't figure it out and she certainly won't explain when asked. Can anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> Ya I know. Nobody has even mentioned that. Beyond disgusting. People have pointed out how sleeping with an escort is disgusting. But I did that with her being fully aware. Besides I SLEPT WITH HER. had nothing to do with my wife's mouth. This little stunt involved my mouth, tongue, ect. Absolutely sick. Not to mention this man was every bit of a ***** as the escort. He had cheated on his wife from day one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @The Middleman: Do what? Let her husband go down on her? What does that matter? So once she has cheated, she shouldn't be sexual with her husband anymore? Or is there a time-out period? Are you asking why she didn't stop her husband from going down on her? Why would she? We don't know how much time had passed since she was with the other man, if she had showered, if she had the opportunity to deter her husband without revealing why, if the OM used protection, etc.
> 
> Further, I never said she was a fine and upstanding wife. I haven't blamed Stang for the affair, I haven't said that he was 100% responsible, and *I have* said that what his wife did was absolutely 100% wrong. Stang has said that his wife wasn't perfect prior to the affair either, and I have no reason not to believe that, so I'm sure she also contributed to the marital problems prior to that point.
> 
> Read and understand what I am saying, not what what I have said extrapolated to a degree that I did not write. Without her side of that situation, we can't know the exact details, but why does it even matter? I agree that what she did was wrong. She was cheating on him, which is about the worst sin a person can commit against their spouse. She knows what she did was wrong. If you or Stang feel that this particular piece of the story makes what she did substantially more wrong, well, just add it to the list. They're all related. Why is this piece even being discussed this much? Does that mean he's willing to forgive everything else, but just not sure about whether he can forgive her for letting him go down on him after having been sexual with the OM? THAT's the issue that is holding this up?
Click to expand...

I went down on her a couple of hours later.


----------



## Stang197

cdbaker said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Middleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> @cdbaker As someone who seems to have a good understanding of why a wayward might go down a cheating path, can you please explain to us why Stang's fine & upstanding but wronged wife might do this:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can explain it because I can't figure it out and she certainly won't explain when asked. Can anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> Ya I know. Nobody has even mentioned that. Beyond disgusting. People have pointed out how sleeping with an escort is disgusting. But I did that with her being fully aware. Besides I SLEPT WITH HER. had nothing to do with my wife's mouth. This little stunt involved my mouth, tongue, ect. Absolutely sick. Not to mention this man was every bit of a ***** as the escort. He had cheated on his wife from day one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @The Middleman: Do what? Let her husband go down on her? What does that matter? So once she has cheated, she shouldn't be sexual with her husband anymore? Or is there a time-out period? Are you asking why she didn't stop her husband from going down on her? Why would she? We don't know how much time had passed since she was with the other man, if she had showered, if she had the opportunity to deter her husband without revealing why, if the OM used protection, etc.
> 
> Further, I never said she was a fine and upstanding wife. I haven't blamed Stang for the affair, I haven't said that he was 100% responsible, and *I have* said that what his wife did was absolutely 100% wrong. Stang has said that his wife wasn't perfect prior to the affair either, and I have no reason not to believe that, so I'm sure she also contributed to the marital problems prior to that point.
> 
> Read and understand what I am saying, not what what I have said extrapolated to a degree that I did not write. Without her side of that situation, we can't know the exact details, but why does it even matter? I agree that what she did was wrong. She was cheating on him, which is about the worst sin a person can commit against their spouse. She knows what she did was wrong. If you or Stang feel that this particular piece of the story makes what she did substantially more wrong, well, just add it to the list. They're all related. Why is this piece even being discussed this much? Does that mean he's willing to forgive everything else, but just not sure about whether he can forgive her for letting him go down on him after having been sexual with the OM? THAT's the issue that is holding this up?
Click to expand...

And no, she didn't use protection.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> I went down on her a couple of hours later.





Stang197 said:


> And no, she didn't use protection.


 @cdbaker Stang's comment above answers your question; I assumed this was the case all along or Stang wouldn't have brought it up. What kind of person does this. The only answer is that she wanted to degrade him or was getting off on it in some perverse way (@CryinginCali Care to Comment?). If this doesn't clearly show that she is some kind of monster who's actions and personality, pre and post affair, just may have made a big contribution to Stang's bad behaviors, than I don't know what will. If you believe there are reasons cheaters cheat, there are reasons why the betrayed are vengeful. 

I advised Stang to divorce not only for the sake of the children, but to get away from that monster. God help those kids if she gets full custody.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Stang, I have been reading your thread and have held off commenting until now. Here are my observations:



It is very clear that the two of you had and still have unresolved issues with each other. I think you described it best in one of your earlier posts when you said she was a hothead and you are a bonehead. I kind of agree with this.


You are a bit of a bully/control freak and she is a bit of a self-entitled princess who believes that she does everything and you do nothing.


Her cheating makes her truly despicable. Your response was equally despicable. That makes the two of you despicable which is your current starting point.


In the meantime you have two innocent children who will suffer as a result.


You don't like it when people here call you up on your wrongdoings - she doesn't like it when she feels "she is not being represented here fairly" and attacks you back to try and "balance the books".


OK enough with the criticism - what I think needs to happen:



You both need therapy as has already been mentioned. You both need to recognise and acknowledge what is wrong with each of you and work on those traits (the ones I mentioned in the points above).


Then and only then should you decide if you can stay married to each other. If you don't address yourselves individually, you are never going to be able to get to a position where you can have a stable married relationship going forward and also it will affect your co-parenting in the future should you decide to split.


During this time treat each other with respect and stop with despicable treatment of each other (that goes for both of you!)


So focus on yourselves individually first and then have a frank talk with each other and decide if MC will help you.


I really do wish both of you the best of luck going forward.


----------



## cdbaker

The Middleman said:


> @cdbaker Stang's comment above answers your question; I assumed this was the case all along or Stang wouldn't have brought it up. What kind of person does this. The only answer is that she wanted to degrade him or was getting off on it in some perverse way (@CryinginCali Care to Comment?). If this doesn't clearly show that she is some kind of monster who's actions and personality, pre and post affair, just may have made a big contribution to Stang's bad behaviors. If you believe there are reasons cheaters cheat, there are reasons betrayed are vengeful.
> 
> I advised Stang to divorce not only for the sake of the children, but to get away from that monster. God help those kids if she gets full custody.


I missed the comment about him confirming that protection was not used, sorry.

Oh come on, those are the ONLY two answers? To degrade him or because it makes her hot?

In my experience and from all the countless stories I have read, the overwhelming majority of cheaters actually do whatever they can to HIDE any potential evidence of their indiscretions, not (literally) rub their spouses faces in it. Why would you outright assume that she would desire otherwise? I think a far more likely scenario is one where she's with the OM, then before she gets a chance to shower, her husband pushes for sexual activity and she isn't able to discourage him or decline without fear of tipping him off.

Either way, I get that a lot of folks might be extra grossed out by this. That for a lot of people, this is one of those memories that would be extra difficult to forget about. My point is, what she did was wrong, the whole affair was wrong, so what is the argument here? That her allowing this particular scenario to happen makes it "wrong-er?" Was Stang going to be comfortable forgiving her up until he realized this particular scenario occurred? Like, "Honey, I think our marriage is worth a second chance, so I'm going to work really hard and if you do the same, I think I'll be able to forgive you in time... Wait, whoa I just remembered, you totally let me go down on you after being with him! Forget this, I want a divorce!" Is THIS the deal breaker?

As for his pre and post behaviors, are you trying to say that any bad/hurtful behavior of hers warranted that he should respond in kind? That because she wasn't a great wife, that him being a crappy husband to her was the right thing to do? That him intentionally cheating on her repeatedly after her affair was the correct and justified response? :surprise:

I just have a hard time understanding why anyone would methodically plan and execute cruelty towards anyone like that. It's one thing if someone is being mean/hurtful without knowing it or without intention, but to consciously make a decision to hurt someone right back for each hurt received just does not make sense to me at all. Again, sudden and extreme anger/hurt in the moment of finding out about an affair, and then doing something stupid, I completely understand. That's difficult to control, but after some time to calm down and then still make decisions like that consciously... That's cold as heck.


----------



## Stang197

cdbaker said:


> The Middleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> @cdbaker Stang's comment above answers your question; I assumed this was the case all along or Stang wouldn't have brought it up. What kind of person does this. The only answer is that she wanted to degrade him or was getting off on it in some perverse way (@CryinginCali Care to Comment?). If this doesn't clearly show that she is some kind of monster who's actions and personality, pre and post affair, just may have made a big contribution to Stang's bad behaviors. If you believe there are reasons cheaters cheat, there are reasons betrayed are vengeful.
> 
> I advised Stang to divorce not only for the sake of the children, but to get away from that monster. God help those kids if she gets full custody.
> 
> 
> 
> I missed the comment about him confirming that protection was not used, sorry.
> 
> Oh come on, those are the ONLY two answers? To degrade him or because it makes her hot?
> 
> In my experience and from all the countless stories I have read, the overwhelming majority of cheaters actually do whatever they can to HIDE any potential evidence of their indiscretions, not (literally) rub their spouses faces in it. Why would you outright assume that she would desire otherwise? I think a far more likely scenario is one where she's with the OM, then before she gets a chance to shower, her husband pushes for sexual activity and she isn't able to discourage him or decline without fear of tipping him off.
> 
> Either way, I get that a lot of folks might be extra grossed out by this. That for a lot of people, this is one of those memories that would be extra difficult to forget about. My point is, what she did was wrong, the whole affair was wrong, so what is the argument here? That her allowing this particular scenario to happen makes it "wrong-er?" Was Stang going to be comfortable forgiving her up until he realized this particular scenario occurred? Like, "Honey, I think our marriage is worth a second chance, so I'm going to work really hard and if you do the same, I think I'll be able to forgive you in time... Wait, whoa I just remembered, you totally let me go down on you after being with him! Forget this, I want a divorce!" Is THIS the deal breaker?
> 
> As for his pre and post behaviors, are you trying to say that any bad/hurtful behavior of hers warranted that he should respond in kind? That because she wasn't a great wife, that him being a crappy husband to her was the right thing to do? That him intentionally cheating on her repeatedly after her affair was the correct and justified response?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just have a hard time understanding why anyone would methodically plan and execute cruelty towards anyone like that. It's one thing if someone is being mean/hurtful without knowing it or without intention, but to consciously make a decision to hurt someone right back for each hurt received just does not make sense to me at all. Again, sudden and extreme anger/hurt in the moment of finding out about an affair, and then doing something stupid, I completely understand. That's difficult to control, but after some time to calm down and then still make decisions like that consciously... That's cold as heck.
Click to expand...

Ya it was cold. I didn't care. Good or bad, simply didn't care. I think after all the problems we had before (and I haven't disclosed all of her abuse to me) the affair was the last straw. I was going to leave her. I was hellbent on humiliating her. I didn't care how sorry she was. It really wasn't until she said she would take care of the love child that the other woman claimed to be carrying that I started rethinking my actions. That is why I thought she had genuine remorse and that I might be making a mistake.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went down on her a couple of hours later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And no, she didn't use protection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @cdbaker Stang's comment above answers your question; I assumed this was the case all along or Stang wouldn't have brought it up. What kind of person does this. The only answer is that she wanted to degrade him or was getting off on it in some perverse way (@CryinginCali Care to Comment?). If this doesn't clearly show that she is some kind of monster who's actions and personality, pre and post affair, just may have made a big contribution to Stang's bad behaviors, than I don't know what will. If you believe there are reasons cheaters cheat, there are reasons why the betrayed are vengeful.
> 
> I advised Stang to divorce not only for the sake of the children, but to get away from that monster. God help those kids if she gets full custody.
Click to expand...

I don't think she is going to comment. She was pretty upset last night.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> I don't think she is going to comment. She was pretty upset last night.


At?


----------



## eastsouth2000

you and your wife love your kids and you guys are moving forward with your live's together. and that's good. continue with counseling.

do you have any winter vacations planned with your wife? a week end get away maybe would help you unwind.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think she is going to comment. She was pretty upset last night.
> 
> 
> 
> At?
Click to expand...

Me .She thinks I purposely left things out of my posts. I reread them. Everything I wrote was abbreviated. I didn't include any statements either one of us have made. She has said very hurtful things to me also. Nowhere in my story. She has been abusive beyond the affair... Still haven't discussed that. I was brief about her affair and the things I have done. I did go into more detail when asked. She was upset I didn't mention the phone sex or how many women I talked to. I said I talked to countless women and 1pretty serious EA and one that was developing quickly. That was the highlights of it all.


----------



## Stang197

eastsouth2000 said:


> you and your wife love your kids and you guys are moving forward with your live's together. and that's good. continue with counseling.
> 
> do you have any winter vacations planned with your wife? a week end get away maybe would help you unwind.


Not really. We usually visit her family in AZ.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Stang
You post all day and almost all about you and your wife; trying to defend yourself, blaming your wife, BLA BLA BLA!!!!

At this point it seems that you are both losers and weak. You both have damaged your children and all you do is ignore the posts about you doing something for your children and go back to the same old shyt, bla bla bla.

You act like you want advice but when you get facts that require you to do what is right and take your hurts and endure them and then help your innocent children you cop out and want to talk about you and your wife, you and your wife, you and your wife.* You both are adults that have caused all this crap and the innocent children did nothing and they are children and need adult parents to help them.*


Frankly, with your focus on yourself, there is little hope for you and your wife at this point but there is great hope for the children if they can get some support and help to get them over the molestation of their emotions that you both have done.


----------



## Stang197

Mr Blunt said:


> Stang
> You post all day and almost all about you and your wife; trying to defend yourself, blaming your wife, BLA BLA BLA!!!!
> 
> At this point it seems that you are both losers and weak. You both have damaged your children and all you do is ignore the posts about you doing something for your children and go back to the same old shyt, bla bla bla.
> 
> You act like you want advice but when you get facts that require you to do what is right and take your hurts and endure them and then help your innocent children you cop out and want to talk about you and your wife, you and your wife, you and your wife.* You both are adults that have caused all this crap and the innocent children did nothing and they are children and need adult parents to help them.*
> 
> 
> Frankly, with your focus on yourself, there is little hope for you and your wife at this point but there is great hope for the children if they can get some support and help to get them over the molestation of their emotions that you both have done.


Serious dude?? All I have done is answer everybody's questions. I understand your the blunt guy but really? Look at everything I have said. I have agreed to everything that made sense to me. I am trying to do what is right at this point but come on man.. Look at my posts. I have been completely roasted hear. Ya I have probably been too harsh in some respects. I have been around the block dude. I seriously doubt that most people don't fight and say mean crap to their spouses in the heat of the moment. You should have heard cryingincali last night. I sat there and let her thrash me. Do I come on here and tell everyone the mean stuff she says to get sympathy.... No. Just let it slide like I have for 12 years. I simply tried to counter the stuff said about me. I am no monster. She isn't either. She needs some serious self reflection dude. And that is something that so far she isn't willing to do.


----------



## Stang197

Mr Blunt said:


> Stang
> You post all day and almost all about you and your wife; trying to defend yourself, blaming your wife, BLA BLA BLA!!!!
> 
> At this point it seems that you are both losers and weak. You both have damaged your children and all you do is ignore the posts about you doing something for your children and go back to the same old shyt, bla bla bla.
> 
> You act like you want advice but when you get facts that require you to do what is right and take your hurts and endure them and then help your innocent children you cop out and want to talk about you and your wife, you and your wife, you and your wife.* You both are adults that have caused all this crap and the innocent children did nothing and they are children and need adult parents to help them.*
> 
> 
> Frankly, with your focus on yourself, there is little hope for you and your wife at this point but there is great hope for the children if they can get some support and help to get them over the molestation of their emotions that you both have done.


Also notice that as soon as people ask for her details she is gone.... Too much to ask. She sure the hell don't mind going in to specifics about comments I have made. Nobody asks her about what this princess has said to me over our marriage. Ya dude I just came out of the blue, for no reason and said this mean stuff... Come on. Haven't any of you every lived with someone. The distortions this woman has made are are laughable. It's even funnier that so many people just eat it up. Fact is this woman is a master at pushing buttons.


----------



## happyman64

Stang

You said your wife is upset.

She is obviously reflecting on something you said , did or she said or did.

How about leaving TAM as the one place either one of you can use without abusing each other.

TAM can be a great tool when used respectfully.

It can be used to communicate with each other. It can be used to rebuild your relationship. It can be used to get great advice from strangers that care.

But it can also be used in a way that can destroy whatever remains of your marriage and family.

So if you and your wife have any love and respect left for each other why not work together on your issues to fix the mistakes.

Instead of possibly repeating them.

HM


----------



## Stang197

happyman64 said:


> Stang
> 
> You said your wife is upset.
> 
> She is obviously reflecting on something you said , did or she said or did.
> 
> How about leaving TAM as the one place either one of you can use without abusing each other.
> 
> TAM can be a great tool when used respectfully.
> 
> It can be used to communicate with each other. It can be used to rebuild your relationship. It can be used to get great advice from strangers that care.
> 
> But it can also be used in a way that can destroy whatever remains of your marriage and family.
> 
> So if you and your wife have any love and respect left for each other why not work together on your issues to fix the mistakes.
> 
> Instead of possibly repeating them.
> 
> HM


I must say that after reading some of the posts here, it obvious that the people who reply are for the most part spending a lot of time trying to help. 
You are right. I think my mistake was telling Cali that I was doing it. I told the story from my point of view. It was abbreviated for sure in all regards. After Cali read it she got very specific in her reply. Then it turned into a tit for tat. If you read my original post, there really wasn't anything that she revealed that I didn't already cover. She just started got into the details. 
Your right that it would be better if we could be civil on this board and at home. But in reality the way this thread went down is exactly how our arguing goes down. I will bring up something in general terms that is bothering me and she gets defensive. She then will bog the situation down with things that were said years ago and we never gain any ground on improving our relationship. I have yet to be able to discuss her affair without having her turn the focus on things that were said by me. Everything is my fault. I honestly think she is gaslighting me with some of it. She says I said it when I was under the influence of ambien and sleeping in bed. I don't remember saying it. But whatever, I might have. Don't know. But it's hard to talk about something that you said while you were asleep. So I say to heck with it let's get divorced and she then starts crying and promises to be less defensive. I think it's funny that someone is so desperate to hold onto someone who is (in her words) so abusive.


----------



## Bibi1031

Stang197 said:


> I must say that after reading some of the posts here, it obvious that the people who reply are for the most part spending a lot of time trying to help.
> You are right. I think my mistake was telling Cali that I was doing it. I told the story from my point of view. It was abbreviated for sure in all regards. After Cali read it she got very specific in her reply. Then it turned into a tit for tat. If you read my original post, there really wasn't anything that she revealed that I didn't already cover. She just started got into the details.
> Your right that it would be better if we could be civil on this board and at home. But in reality the way this thread went down is exactly how our arguing goes down. I will bring up something in general terms that is bothering me and she gets defensive. She then will bog the situation down with things that were said years ago and we never gain any ground on improving our relationship. I have yet to be able to discuss her affair without having her turn the focus on things that were said by me. Everything is my fault. I honestly think she is gaslighting me with some of it. She says I said it when I was under the influence of ambien and sleeping in bed. I don't remember saying it. But whatever, I might have. Don't know. But it's hard to talk about something that you said while you were asleep. So I say to heck with it let's get divorced and she then starts crying and promises to be less defensive. I think it's funny that someone is so desperate to hold onto someone who is (in her words) so abusive.


Bingo! 


Emotional and verbal abuse is what was wrong with you guys before Cali brought infidelity into the mix.
Your life is hell because you CANNOT communicate in a healthy way...you don't know how.

My marriage ended due to the emotional and verbal abuse. In our fights we lost respect for each other. We can't communicate well even now almost seven years later.

You two have a long haul.

Thank God we didn't have any children. You have a much tougher situation because you have two beautiful babies that will live thinking that your dysfunctional way of living is normal.


----------



## Stang197

Bibi1031 said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must say that after reading some of the posts here, it obvious that the people who reply are for the most part spending a lot of time trying to help.
> You are right. I think my mistake was telling Cali that I was doing it. I told the story from my point of view. It was abbreviated for sure in all regards. After Cali read it she got very specific in her reply. Then it turned into a tit for tat. If you read my original post, there really wasn't anything that she revealed that I didn't already cover. She just started got into the details.
> Your right that it would be better if we could be civil on this board and at home. But in reality the way this thread went down is exactly how our arguing goes down. I will bring up something in general terms that is bothering me and she gets defensive. She then will bog the situation down with things that were said years ago and we never gain any ground on improving our relationship. I have yet to be able to discuss her affair without having her turn the focus on things that were said by me. Everything is my fault. I honestly think she is gaslighting me with some of it. She says I said it when I was under the influence of ambien and sleeping in bed. I don't remember saying it. But whatever, I might have. Don't know. But it's hard to talk about something that you said while you were asleep. So I say to heck with it let's get divorced and she then starts crying and promises to be less defensive. I think it's funny that someone is so desperate to hold onto someone who is (in her words) so abusive.
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo!
> 
> 
> Emotional and verbal abuse is what was wrong with you guys before Cali brought infidelity into the mix.
> Your life is hell because you CANNOT communicate in a healthy way...you don't know how.
> 
> My marriage ended due to the emotional and verbal abuse. In our fights we lost respect for each other. We can't communicate well even now almost seven years later.
> 
> You two have a long haul.
> 
> Thank God we didn't have any children. You have a much tougher situation because you have two beautiful babies that will live thinking that your dysfunctional way of living is normal.
Click to expand...

Yes we do have a long haul ahead of us. I guess I'm torn about even trying if we can't get to a place where there is an equal platform for us to express concerns and have them earnestly addressed. On both sides. 
We both thought we were compatible at first. Now I am starting the realize that we were extremely naive on some basic stuff. We both have different views on how to raise our kids. We come from very different backgrounds. She came from a broken home due to a cheating mom, a dad that let anything go, and I came from a home with where my dad was pretty much an authoritarian and not much else. Pretty much how we both turned out.


----------



## Divinely Favored

sizPostMobiQUOT
Also one the point of leaving stuff out.... She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion". Does that make her a liar? Sounds like an abuser to me.[/QUOTE

Damn.....don't get more disrespectful than that. She had total disdain for you to allow that.


----------



## Stang197

Divinely Favored said:


> sizPostMobiQUOT
> Also one the point of leaving stuff out.... She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion". Does that make her a liar? Sounds like an abuser to me.[/QUOTE
> 
> Damn.....don't get more disrespectful than that. She had total disdain for you to allow that.


Hard for me to think otherwise. This issue is one that she absolutely won't address. If I bring it up it automatically turns into her bawling and her feeling suicidal. Not sure if that's how she really feels or if it is manipulation to change the subject.


----------



## Bibi1031

Stang197 said:


> Hard for me to think otherwise. This issue is one that she absolutely won't address. If I bring it up it automatically turns into her bawling and her feeling suicidal. Not sure if that's how she really feels or if it is manipulation to change the subject.


It may be both. Perfect example of having lost respect for each other. 

It's a sick dysfunctional dance that is very addictive. I know because I have lived it. 

You two really need to separate and attend IC. You will resolve nothing and just keep on hurting and poisoning everyone in your family.

But only you two can decide when to break away from this **** dance!

Best of luck cuz this sh!t is hard...I just went back into that dance floor once again:wtf::crazy:


----------



## The Middleman

Divinely Favored said:


> sizPostMobiQUOT
> Also one the point of leaving stuff out.... She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion". Does that make her a liar? Sounds like an abuser to me.[/QUOTE
> 
> Damn.....don't get more disrespectful than that. She had total disdain for you to allow that.


Thank you. For a while there I thought I was the only one who understood the significance of that. One guy actually insinuated that it didn't matter!


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Divinely Favored said:
> 
> 
> 
> sizPostMobiQUOT
> Also one the point of leaving stuff out.... She conveniently leaves out that she let me give her oral after her "indiscretion". Does that make her a liar? Sounds like an abuser to me.[/QUOTE
> 
> Damn.....don't get more disrespectful than that. She had total disdain for you to allow that.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. For a while there I thought I was the only one who understood the significance of that. One guy actually insinuated that it didn't matter!
Click to expand...

I bet it matter to them if they lived it. I guess the whole thing is why this issue in a marriage is so toxic. So many reasons to not bother trying to fix. So many reasons to split and stop thinking about it. That's why I am not sure if I'm remorseful for the stuff I did after her affair. I still don't think it makes me a jerk. I understand what people are saying. I do think I need to stop punishing but I don't think that the punishment I did was all that unfair. I am not the type to roll over for anyone. She stuck around after it all so maybe it will work... So who knows.


----------



## Divinely Favored

I have had anxiety attacks and cried my eyes out every day for over a year because of the immense pain I caused stang197, and the changes it made to our formerly loving marriage.

This woman speaks with a forked tongue. She trashes him and then said formerly loving marriage? Tells me it WAS good till she did what she did. I would have to be done.....she basically put that guys semen in your mouth. She could have stopped you from going down on her.....I think she was getting off of doing this to you. 

Like spitting in someone's food or JERKING off in it!


----------



## sparrow555

I think people are telling you that you are cutting off your nose to spite your face..

Did you even enjoy the sex with the escort with so much revenge in mind ? 

One BS said that he hurt his WS the most when he reacted in utter disgust subconsciously when she touched him. The fact that her touch could make him flinch in disgust was utterly devastating to her.


----------



## Stang197

sparrow555 said:


> I think people are telling you that you are cutting off your nose to spite your face..
> 
> Did you even enjoy the sex with the escort with so much revenge in mind ?
> 
> One BS said that he hurt his WS the most when he reacted in utter disgust subconsciously when she touched him. The fact that her touch could make him flinch in disgust was utterly devastating to her.


Honestly no. The sex with the escort sucked. Empty and shallow. I have no desire to ever do that again. The only reason I did it to begin with is because it was the quickest way to get even.


----------



## Roselyn

OP, how old are you and your wife? How long have you two been married?

After all that have happened, her cheating and you having many revenged affairs including having her watched you having sex with a prostitute, you are still married. It is apparent that you two are bent on hurting each other with the most intensity. She is still gaslighting and not telling you the truth to this day. 

You have been to counselling. I don't think that you can salvage what you have at this point. Call it a day. Too much hurt have happened. You need to see a psychologist for yourself. I don't think that remaining in this environment is healthy for your mindset. Sorry that you are here.


----------



## bfree

Stang197 said:


> Not sure what I want. Well yes I am. I want this to be a bad dream that I can wake up from. Yes it has been he'll for 15 months. Our daughter is acting ok. I think this has seriously scared her. She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.


Just reading this thread now. This post literally made me cry. If this isn't a reason for you and your wife to lay down these resentments and work together to heal your family then I don't know what is. That healing may be reconciliation or it may come in the form of an amicable divorce. But if you value your children and their well being you both have to grow up, come together, and try to be good parents.


----------



## Stang197

Divinely Favored said:


> I have had anxiety attacks and cried my eyes out every day for over a year because of the immense pain I caused stang197, and the changes it made to our formerly loving marriage.
> 
> This woman speaks with a forked tongue. She trashes him and then said formerly loving marriage? Tells me it WAS good till she did what she did. I would have to be done.....she basically put that guys semen in your mouth. She could have stopped you from going down on her.....I think she was getting off of doing this to you.
> 
> Like spitting in someone's food or JERKING off in it!


The marriage was good. All of a sudden after her affair came to light, I was a demon. To me, 90% of our marriage was awesome. That's the thing I don't get. People have trashed me for lying (even though I was completely honest, just not specific) but have give her a pass even though there are obviously lies in her post. They act as if I am the antichrist for for telling her that I was repulsed to have sex with her . That was a mean thing to say but it was heat of the moment stuff that I didn't mean. These same people act as if they have never said anything in the heat of the moment.


----------



## Stang197

Roselyn said:


> OP, how old are you and your wife? How long have you two been married?
> 
> After all that have happened, her cheating and you having many revenged affairs including having her watched you having sex with a prostitute, you are still married. It is apparent that you two are bent on hurting each other with the most intensity. She is still gaslighting and not telling you the truth to this day.
> 
> You have been to counselling. I don't think that you can salvage what you have at this point. Call it a day. Too much hurt have happened. You need to see a psychologist for yourself. I don't think that remaining in this environment is healthy for your mindset. Sorry that you are here.


I am 38 and my wife is 33. We have been married for 10 years.


----------



## Stang197

bfree said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what I want. Well yes I am. I want this to be a bad dream that I can wake up from. Yes it has been he'll for 15 months. Our daughter is acting ok. I think this has seriously scared her. She wrote to me that she hopes someday I will forgive her and her mom. I think she somehow feels responsible. Very sad.
> 
> 
> 
> Just reading this thread now. This post literally made me cry. If this isn't a reason for you and your wife to lay down these resentments and work together to heal your family then I don't know what is. That healing may be reconciliation or it may come in the form of an amicable divorce. But if you value your children and their well being you both have to grow up, come together, and try to be good parents.
Click to expand...

Sorry it made you cry. I was just cleaning out my junk drawer and found some letters from my daughter begging me to stay home and forgive her. Absolutely heartbreaking. Especially knowing that at the time she wrote it she was only 7. This situation has completely changed every aspect of our family. For the worse.


----------



## Stang197

Roselyn said:


> OP, how old are you and your wife? How long have you two been married?
> 
> After all that have happened, her cheating and you having many revenged affairs including having her watched you having sex with a prostitute, you are still married. It is apparent that you two are bent on hurting each other with the most intensity. She is still gaslighting and not telling you the truth to this day.
> 
> You have been to counselling. I don't think that you can salvage what you have at this point. Call it a day. Too much hurt have happened. You need to see a psychologist for yourself. I don't think that remaining in this environment is healthy for your mindset. Sorry that you are here.


I don't think it is healthy for anyone. But yes I feel like I have slowly been going crazy.


----------



## bfree

Ok, finally caught up. Imo there is too much damage here for reconciliation to be successful whilst you live together. You both need to separate in order to let the heat dissipate somewhat. As long as you are both in each other's circle of influence on a daily basis you are going to continue on this merry-go-round of anguish. And this is coming from someone who does not believe in separation. The truth is that neither one of you are evil and neither one of you can take the high road. You are both in a tremendous amount of pain and I think it started with the birth of your son. Rather than come together and work as a team you each sunk into your own pit of despair and not only lost sight of each other but of your children as well. There is no going back. There is no rectifying these wounds. There will always be scars. The question is can both of you learn to see those scars as reminders of painful but ultimately positive experiences or will you both continue to re open your own wounds and the wounds of your loved ones.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> Hard for me to think otherwise. This issue is one that she absolutely won't address. If I bring it up it automatically turns into her bawling and her feeling suicidal. Not sure if that's how she really feels or if it is manipulation to change the subject.


First of all, that is a manipulation of you and the situation. It's also an avoidance of her accountability for sex outside the marriage. (I hate using the term affair, it makes it sound clean). Not sharing details and blowing up when asked to explain motives is a pure sign of a manipulator. Her skills in manipulation were clearly demonstrated by her cowardly "hit and run" postings; they were very successful in demonizing you. She didn't want to answer questions herself about her issues, the cheating and degrading you because if she did, she would no longer be sympathetic. Few people here saw through that ruse. I can't understand why no one is calling her on that one.

You know, I could understand the whole "cream pie" thing if you were cheating on her and she had an RA and did that to you as icing on the cake, so to speak. But that was not the case as far as I understand. This was not an accident or coincidence, it was planed. It was her way of getting back at you for something.


----------



## Stang197

The Middleman said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hard for me to think otherwise. This issue is one that she absolutely won't address. If I bring it up it automatically turns into her bawling and her feeling suicidal. Not sure if that's how she really feels or if it is manipulation to change the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, that is a manipulation of you and the situation. It's also an avoidance of her accountability for sex outside the marriage. (I hate using the term affair, it makes it sound clean). Not sharing details and blowing up when asked to explain motives is the pure sign of a manipulator. He skills were clearly demonstrated by her cowardly "hit and run" postings; they were very successfully demonizing you. Few saw through that. She just didn't want to answer questions herself about her issues, the cheating and degrading you. I can't understand why no one is calling her on that one.
> 
> You know, I could understand the whole "cream pie" thing if you were cheating on her and she had an RA and did it as icing on the cake, so to speak. But that was not the case as far as I understand . This was not an accident or coincidence, it was planed. It was her way of getting back at you for something.
Click to expand...

I think your right about her being to cowardly. I asked her why she wouldn't answer any questions and her response is that nothing positive would come of it. I think she knows that given the amount of eyes on her posts she wouldn't be able to fool people for very long. Although this site does seem to be a sucker for the damsel in distress.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by Mr Blunt*
> Stang
> You post all day and almost all about you and your wife; trying to defend yourself, blaming your wife, BLA BLA BLA!!!!
> 
> At this point it seems that you are both losers and weak. You both have damaged your children and all you do is ignore the posts about you doing something for your children and go back to the same old shyt, bla bla bla.
> 
> You act like you want advice but when you get facts that require you to do what is right and take your hurts and endure them and then help your innocent children you cop out and want to talk about you and your wife, you and your wife, you and your wife. *You both are adults that have caused all this crap and the innocent children did nothing and they are children and need adult parents to help them.
> *
> 
> Frankly, with your focus on yourself, there is little hope for you and your wife at this point but there is great hope for the children if they can get some support and help to get them over the molestation of their emotions that you both have done.





> *By Stang*
> Serious dude?? All I have done is answer everybody's questions. I understand your the blunt guy but really? Look at everything I have said. I have agreed to everything that made sense to me. I am trying to do what is right at this point but come on man.. Look at my posts. *I have been completely roasted hear*. Ya I have probably been too harsh in some respects. I have been around the block dude. I seriously doubt that most people don't fight and say mean crap to their spouses in the heat of the moment. You should have heard cryingincali last night. I sat there and let her thrash me. Do I come on here and tell everyone the mean stuff she says to get sympathy.... No. Just let it slide like I have for 12 years. I simply tried to counter the stuff said about me. I am no monster. She isn't either. *She needs some serious self reflection dude. And that is something that so far she isn't willing to do.*
> 
> Also notice that as soon as people ask for her details she is gone.... Too much to ask. *She sure the hell don't mind going in to specifics about comments I have made*. Nobody asks her about what this princess has said to me over our marriage. Ya dude I just came out of the blue, for no reason and said this mean stuff... Come on. Haven't any of you every lived with someone. *The distortions this woman has made are laughable.* It's even funnier that so many people just eat it up. Fact is this woman is a master at pushing buttons.




*You do not get my posts or you are playing stupid.* You answer my pleas for you and your wife to focus on your emotionally wounded children that you and your wife are responsible for with trying to defend yourself and how wrong your wife is.

YOU JUST DO NOT GET IT!!!

Bottom line: *YOUR CHILDREN SHOULD BE TOP PRIORITY not you trying to defend yourself and you telling us how wrong your wife is.* At this point I don’t give a shyt about you and your wife because you have rehashed and rehashed about you two and have said very little to nothing about what you and your wife are dong for your children.

As long as you and your wife keep most of the focus on yourselves and try and defend yourself and point the other ones a wrong there is NO HOPE for you two. *You two should put your children ahead of your blame game and then work on improving yourself without trying to change the past and to change your spouses*. You can only change you. 

There is hope for your children! If you and your wife do not focus on helping your children you both will regret it for the rest of your life.


----------



## The Middleman

Stang197 said:


> Although this site does seem to be a sucker for the damsel in distress.


For sure as sh!t that's true. A lot of "White Knights" here.


----------



## Stang197

Mr Blunt said:


> *Originally Posted by Mr Blunt*
> Stang
> You post all day and almost all about you and your wife; trying to defend yourself, blaming your wife, BLA BLA BLA!!!!
> 
> At this point it seems that you are both losers and weak. You both have damaged your children and all you do is ignore the posts about you doing something for your children and go back to the same old shyt, bla bla bla.
> 
> You act like you want advice but when you get facts that require you to do what is right and take your hurts and endure them and then help your innocent children you cop out and want to talk about you and your wife, you and your wife, you and your wife. *You both are adults that have caused all this crap and the innocent children did nothing and they are children and need adult parents to help them.
> *
> 
> Frankly, with your focus on yourself, there is little hope for you and your wife at this point but there is great hope for the children if they can get some support and help to get them over the molestation of their emotions that you both have done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *By Stang*
> Serious dude?? All I have done is answer everybody's questions. I understand your the blunt guy but really? Look at everything I have said. I have agreed to everything that made sense to me. I am trying to do what is right at this point but come on man.. Look at my posts. *I have been completely roasted hear*. Ya I have probably been too harsh in some respects. I have been around the block dude. I seriously doubt that most people don't fight and say mean crap to their spouses in the heat of the moment. You should have heard cryingincali last night. I sat there and let her thrash me. Do I come on here and tell everyone the mean stuff she says to get sympathy.... No. Just let it slide like I have for 12 years. I simply tried to counter the stuff said about me. I am no monster. She isn't either. *She needs some serious self reflection dude. And that is something that so far she isn't willing to do.*
> 
> Also notice that as soon as people ask for her details she is gone.... Too much to ask. *She sure the hell don't mind going in to specifics about comments I have made*. Nobody asks her about what this princess has said to me over our marriage. Ya dude I just came out of the blue, for no reason and said this mean stuff... Come on. Haven't any of you every lived with someone. *The distortions this woman has made are laughable.* It's even funnier that so many people just eat it up. Fact is this woman is a master at pushing buttons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *You do not get my posts or you are playing stupid.* You answer my pleas for you and your wife to focus on your emotionally wounded children that you and your wife are responsible for with trying to defend yourself and how wrong your wife is.
> 
> YOU JUST DO NOT GET IT!!!
> 
> Bottom line: *YOUR CHILDREN SHOULD BE TOP PRIORITY not you trying to defend yourself and you telling us how wrong your wife is.* At this point I don?t give a shyt about you and your wife because you have rehashed and rehashed about you two and have said very little to nothing about what you and your wife are dong for your children.
> 
> As long as you and your wife keep most of the focus on yourselves and try and defend yourself and point the other ones a wrong there is NO HOPE for you two. *You two should put your children ahead of your blame game and then work on improving yourself without trying to change the past and to change your spouses*. You can only change you.
> 
> There is hope for your children! If you and your wife do not focus on helping your children you both will regret it for the rest of your life.
Click to expand...

I think your right about regrets. We have tried to limit their exposure to our upheaval. We are now taking our kids to church (not that I am religious just don't know what else to do). I refuse to fight with my wife in front of them. This is hard. She was yelling at me today and I started video recording her. She immediately calmed down. Don't know what else we can do.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> As long as you and your wife keep most of the focus on yourselves and try and defend yourself and point the other ones a wrong there is NO HOPE for you two. You two should put your children ahead of your blame game and then work on improving yourself without trying to change the past and to change your spouses. *You can only change you. *
> 
> There is hope for your children! If you and your wife do not focus on helping your children you both will regret it for the rest of your life.
> 
> *By STANG*
> I think your right about regrets. We have tried to limit their exposure to our upheaval. We are now taking our kids to church (not that I am religious just don't know what else to do). I refuse to fight with my wife in front of them. This is hard. She was yelling at me today and I started video recording her. She immediately calmed down. *Don't know what else we can do.*


You do not what else to do?

* I know what you can do:*

1	You can take a good look at your past and repent of what you have done. *That means that you turn 180 from your vengeance and become humble and CHANGE YOURSELF!*

2	You ask for forgiveness from very one that you need to and *then prove your change by your ACTIONS and DECISIONS*

3	You STOP focusing on your wife and start to focus on you and your children.

4	*You start building yourself up to a man of high integrity by doing what you know is right NOT what your hurt emotions want*.

5	YOU DO NOT BECOME A DOOR MAT but you take actions that demonstrate a strong man. Strong men can avoid vengeance and do what is right having faith that you will be stronger and a much better man in the future. Do not be impatient or quit when you get hurt but keep doing what a man of integrity and strength does.

6	Realize that your strength will come from you and your God and not so much from your wife. *Do what a man of integrity will do, obey God, and trust God to help you do what you cannot do.*

7	Be Humble before God and be very determined to be a man of integrity and strength

8	Realize that your value does NOT come from your wife but your value comes from you, you actions and decisions, your God, and you providing the best chance for your children to be successes in life.

9	You and your wife having a successful reconciliation can add to your life but it is not absolutely necessary for you to have a good life. Your children will always love or be connected to their mother no matter what, so remember that.

10* The greatest power that you have to make a good life for yourself is your free will and your choices. You can only change you!*





> The Serenity Prayer
> 
> God grant me the serenity
> To accept the things I cannot change;
> Courage to change the things I can;
> And wisdom to know the difference.
> 
> Living one day at a time;
> Enjoying one moment at a time;
> Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
> Taking, as He did, this sinful world
> As it is, not as I would have it;
> Trusting that He will make all things right
> If I surrender to His Will;
> So that I may be reasonably happy in this life
> And supremely happy with Him
> Forever and ever in the next.
> Amen.
> 
> 
> Read more: Serenity Prayer - God Grant Me The Serenity - Full Version


----------



## just got it 55

Stang197 said:


> I think your right about regrets. We have tried to limit their exposure to our upheaval. We are now taking our kids to church (not that I am religious just don't know what else to do). I refuse to fight with my wife in front of them. This is hard. She was yelling at me today and I started video recording her. She immediately calmed down. Don't know what else we can do.


Stang if you want to stop a whining child with crocodile tears

Hold them up a mirror

55


----------



## eastsouth2000

why was your wife yelling?
analyze how the situation came about.

if your wife shouts, just let her. she will calm down.
going to church is great. go do stuff with the family.
try to deplete that energy to fight by spending time with the kids.

you need therapy to help you with the pain of the infidelity. please go.
confronting your wife about it directly is not helpful.
its best to address these issue's in Marriage counseling.
if you want to find out about specifics do it together with the counselor.

talk to the priest/pastor about it. these people can help you.
try your best not to feed the anger.

address the infidelity in counseling with your wife.
in counseling you will have Professional assistance in case of stumbling blocks.
while at home please do your best to not open it up.


----------



## Stang197

Mr Blunt said:


> As long as you and your wife keep most of the focus on yourselves and try and defend yourself and point the other ones a wrong there is NO HOPE for you two. You two should put your children ahead of your blame game and then work on improving yourself without trying to change the past and to change your spouses. *You can only change you. *
> 
> There is hope for your children! If you and your wife do not focus on helping your children you both will regret it for the rest of your life.
> 
> *By STANG*
> I think your right about regrets. We have tried to limit their exposure to our upheaval. We are now taking our kids to church (not that I am religious just don't know what else to do). I refuse to fight with my wife in front of them. This is hard. She was yelling at me today and I started video recording her. She immediately calmed down. *Don't know what else we can do.*
> 
> 
> 
> You do not what else to do?
> 
> * I know what you can do:*
> 
> 1	You can take a good look at your past and repent of what you have done. *That means that you turn 180 from your vengeance and become humble and CHANGE YOURSELF!*
> 
> 2	You ask for forgiveness from very one that you need to and *then prove your change by your ACTIONS and DECISIONS*
> 
> 3	You STOP focusing on your wife and start to focus on you and your children.
> 
> 4	*You start building yourself up to a man of high integrity by doing what you know is right NOT what your hurt emotions want*.
> 
> 5	YOU DO NOT BECOME A DOOR MAT but you take actions that demonstrate a strong man. Strong men can avoid vengeance and do what is right having faith that you will be stronger and a much better man in the future. Do not be impatient or quit when you get hurt but keep doing what a man of integrity and strength does.
> 
> 6	Realize that your strength will come from you and your God and not so much from your wife. *Do what a man of integrity will do, obey God, and trust God to help you do what you cannot do.*
> 
> 7	Be Humble before God and be very determined to be a man of integrity and strength
> 
> 8	Realize that your value does NOT come from your wife but your value comes from you, you actions and decisions, your God, and you providing the best chance for your children to be successes in life.
> 
> 9	You and your wife having a successful reconciliation can add to your life but it is not absolutely necessary for you to have a good life. Your children will always love or be connected to their mother no matter what, so remember that.
> 
> 10* The greatest power that you have to make a good life for yourself is your free will and your choices. You can only change you!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Serenity Prayer
> 
> God grant me the serenity
> To accept the things I cannot change;
> Courage to change the things I can;
> And wisdom to know the difference.
> 
> Living one day at a time;
> Enjoying one moment at a time;
> Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
> Taking, as He did, this sinful world
> As it is, not as I would have it;
> Trusting that He will make all things right
> If I surrender to His Will;
> So that I may be reasonably happy in this life
> And supremely happy with Him
> Forever and ever in the next.
> Amen.
> 
> 
> Read more: Serenity Prayer - God Grant Me The Serenity - Full Version
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

All good stuff. I have stopped doing what I was doing. Not sure if that makes me repentant. One of the reasons we were arguing is because I don't feel sorry for the stuff I have done post affair. Not sure if that makes me unrepentant or not. I know that it is something that religion frowns upon. I do go to church but mostly for the kids and the wife. I don't know if I am religious. I do enjoy church and so does the family. I do pray. I don't know if remorse is required for forgiveness if I have turned away from that behavior. 
One of the reasons I guess I don't feel all that sorry is my wife hasn't seemed devastated. She was when I told her I was leaving for another woman but not the affairs so much. I don't want to hurt her any further.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By Stang*
> I have stopped doing what I was doing. Not sure if that makes me repentant.





> What Is Repentance?
> Definition: Repentance means a sincere turning away, in both the mind and heart, from self to God.
> Repentance Means Turning From Self to God
> 
> Strong's Concordance
> metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
> Original Word: μετανοέω
> Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.
> Strong's Greek: 3340. ???????? (metanoeó) -- to change one's mind or purpose


Stang, the fact that you have stopped doing what you were doing is a powerful action that has lots of credibility! Saying words is not the same as changing your mind, changing the inter man, and ACTIONS that show repentance.






> By Stang
> I don't know if remorse is required for forgiveness if I have turned away from that behavior.


1 John 1:9 says, If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 

Matthew 6:14-15 says, For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses

Matthew 26:28 ...this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

If you believe that the Bible is truth then the above should be some help to you.






> By Stang
> I don't want to hurt her any further.


That is a least the beginning of forgiveness IMO


----------



## cdbaker

Stang197 said:


> Ya it was cold. I didn't care. Good or bad, simply didn't care. I think after all the problems we had before (and I haven't disclosed all of her abuse to me) the affair was the last straw. I was going to leave her. I was hellbent on humiliating her. I didn't care how sorry she was. It really wasn't until she said she would take care of the love child that the other woman claimed to be carrying that I started rethinking my actions. That is why I thought she had genuine remorse and that I might be making a mistake.


See, getting angry and being irrational after the discovery makes sense. That doesn't make it right, but at least I think most of us can understand that initial rage of betrayal. Your "rethinking your actions" piece implies to me that you realize how cruel and heartless you have been to your wife. Hopefully you can fully apologize to her for that, as she has apologized for her actions as well. From there, you both need to process what led to the affair in the first place.



Stang197 said:


> I bet it matter to them if they lived it. I guess the whole thing is why this issue in a marriage is so toxic. So many reasons to not bother trying to fix. So many reasons to split and stop thinking about it. That's why I am not sure if I'm remorseful for the stuff I did after her affair. I still don't think it makes me a jerk. I understand what people are saying. I do think I need to stop punishing but I don't think that the punishment I did was all that unfair. I am not the type to roll over for anyone. She stuck around after it all so maybe it will work... So who knows.


Now we're going backwards again. I don't know if it's a maturity issue or what, but you have got to realize that the things you did to her after her affair ended were absolutely 100% cruel and heartless. Again, I get being angry, but you're an adult and her betrayal doesn't give you permission put her through the hate ringer for months and/or years. It's not a matter of what is fair or unfair. Again, we're not children here. If you can't let go of what she did, then divorce her, don't abuse her! Staying with her and being that hateful DOES make you a jerk. It all makes her a cheater, and you a jerk. 

"Oh yes, if she cheated on you, then the first thing you need to do is go find a hooker and have sex with her while making your wife watche. Then you need to go try to have a few affairs of your own and tell your wife to pound dirt if she has a problem with it. Talk to and meet up with as many women as you can. Be sure to not forgive her or show her any shred of love during this time, and make sure to rub it in her face as often as possible. If you can do all of this, you'll end up with a wonderfully happy marriage in no time!" -Said no one ever.



Stang197 said:


> The marriage was good. All of a sudden after her affair came to light, I was a demon. To me, 90% of our marriage was awesome. That's the thing I don't get. People have trashed me for lying (even though I was completely honest, just not specific) but have give her a pass even though there are obviously lies in her post. They act as if I am the antichrist for for telling her that I was repulsed to have sex with her . That was a mean thing to say but it was heat of the moment stuff that I didn't mean. These same people act as if they have never said anything in the heat of the moment.


What you aren't getting is that your wife has made clear that she feels that the marriage wasn't good at all. To you maybe it was 90% awesome, but to her it sounds like it was 90% awful. I know that it is not at all uncommon for people who engage in affairs to remember their marriage very differently from reality, but there is the fact that she did engage in an affair as evidence that she wasn't happy. Happily married women almost always never have affairs. Women with 90% awesome marriages don't have affairs. She couldn't get that message through to you, and was miserable, and couldn't bring herself to do the right thing which would be to drag you to marriage counseling or file for divorce, and was instead weak to the attention of another man who showed interest. Again I'm not defending her, but I am saying very confidently that I believe your assertion of a 90% awesome marriage was way off.

If she is saying she was unhappy, and there is evidence to that as well, then you can't simply say she was wrong. If you want to argue that she shouldn't have been unhappy, then you can do that until you are blue in the face, but that doesn't make it true. That's the point here. Your marriage wasn't awesome, it was on it's deathbed. I'm not saying that you are lying when you suggest that it was awesome, I'm just suggesting that you were blind to the reality of the situation as so many other men are when they find out their wives are cheating on them. Seriously, stick around and read a lot of these cheating threads regarding how often men talk about how they were blindsided by their wife's affair or sudden filing for divorce, while the women all complain about how hard they tried to make their misery clear to their husbands for years before they acted.

So if she says, "I am not happy, I feel completely unloved" you can't really argue that. You can certainly try. You can say, "But I work hard for you every day, I cook for you, clean up after you, I am a great father to our kids, I don't smoke/gamble/cheat/do drugs/drink/etc., I'm here every night, I bring you gifts, etc. You have no reason to feel unloved, it's just not logical." But after you're done, she still feels unhappy and unloved. That statement is truth, logical or not. It's not debate class where you can "win" an argument. It's not a debate, it's supposed to be an investigation.

Does that make any sense?


----------



## nursejackie

This thread is horrifying and sad other than that …I have no words


----------



## Stang197

cdbaker said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya it was cold. I didn't care. Good or bad, simply didn't care. I think after all the problems we had before (and I haven't disclosed all of her abuse to me) the affair was the last straw. I was going to leave her. I was hellbent on humiliating her. I didn't care how sorry she was. It really wasn't until she said she would take care of the love child that the other woman claimed to be carrying that I started rethinking my actions. That is why I thought she had genuine remorse and that I might be making a mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> See, getting angry and being irrational after the discovery makes sense. That doesn't make it right, but at least I think most of us can understand that initial rage of betrayal. Your "rethinking your actions" piece implies to me that you realize how cruel and heartless you have been to your wife. Hopefully you can fully apologize to her for that, as she has apologized for her actions as well. From there, you both need to process what led to the affair in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet it matter to them if they lived it. I guess the whole thing is why this issue in a marriage is so toxic. So many reasons to not bother trying to fix. So many reasons to split and stop thinking about it. That's why I am not sure if I'm remorseful for the stuff I did after her affair. I still don't think it makes me a jerk. I understand what people are saying. I do think I need to stop punishing but I don't think that the punishment I did was all that unfair. I am not the type to roll over for anyone. She stuck around after it all so maybe it will work... So who knows.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we're going backwards again. I don't know if it's a maturity issue or what, but you have got to realize that the things you did to her after her affair ended were absolutely 100% cruel and heartless. Again, I get being angry, but you're an adult and her betrayal doesn't give you permission put her through the hate ringer for months and/or years. It's not a matter of what is fair or unfair. Again, we're not children here. If you can't let go of what she did, then divorce her, don't abuse her! Staying with her and being that hateful DOES make you a jerk. It all makes her a cheater, and you a jerk.
> 
> "Oh yes, if she cheated on you, then the first thing you need to do is go find a hooker and have sex with her while making your wife watche. Then you need to go try to have a few affairs of your own and tell your wife to pound dirt if she has a problem with it. Talk to and meet up with as many women as you can. Be sure to not forgive her or show her any shred of love during this time, and make sure to rub it in her face as often as possible. If you can do all of this, you'll end up with a wonderfully happy marriage in no time!" -Said no one ever.
> 
> 
> 
> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The marriage was good. All of a sudden after her affair came to light, I was a demon. To me, 90% of our marriage was awesome. That's the thing I don't get. People have trashed me for lying (even though I was completely honest, just not specific) but have give her a pass even though there are obviously lies in her post. They act as if I am the antichrist for for telling her that I was repulsed to have sex with her . That was a mean thing to say but it was heat of the moment stuff that I didn't mean. These same people act as if they have never said anything in the heat of the moment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What you aren't getting is that your wife has made clear that she feels that the marriage wasn't good at all. To you maybe it was 90% awesome, but to her it sounds like it was 90% awful. I know that it is not at all uncommon for people who engage in affairs to remember their marriage very differently from reality, but there is the fact that she did engage in an affair as evidence that she wasn't happy. Happily married women almost always never have affairs. Women with 90% awesome marriages don't have affairs. She couldn't get that message through to you, and was miserable, and couldn't bring herself to do the right thing which would be to drag you to marriage counseling or file for divorce, and was instead weak to the attention of another man who showed interest. Again I'm not defending her, but I am saying very confidently that I believe your assertion of a 90% awesome marriage was way off.
> 
> If she is saying she was unhappy, and there is evidence to that as well, then you can't simply say she was wrong. If you want to argue that she shouldn't have been unhappy, then you can do that until you are blue in the face, but that doesn't make it true. That's the point here. Your marriage wasn't awesome, it was on it's deathbed. I'm not saying that you are lying when you suggest that it was awesome, I'm just suggesting that you were blind to the reality of the situation as so many other men are when they find out their wives are cheating on them. Seriously, stick around and read a lot of these cheating threads regarding how often men talk about how they were blindsided by their wife's affair or sudden filing for divorce, while the women all complain about how hard they tried to make their misery clear to their husbands for years before they acted.
> 
> So if she says, "I am not happy, I feel completely unloved" you can't really argue that. You can certainly try. You can say, "But I work hard for you every day, I cook for you, clean up after you, I am a great father to our kids, I don't smoke/gamble/cheat/do drugs/drink/etc., I'm here every night, I bring you gifts, etc. You have no reason to feel unloved, it's just not logical." But after you're done, she still feels unhappy and unloved. That statement is truth, logical or not. It's not debate class where you can "win" an argument. It's not a debate, it's supposed to be an investigation.
> 
> Does that make any sense?
Click to expand...

She admitted that our relationship was formerly loving pre affair in her post. If she wasn't happy and blamed me that makes her codependent and I can't fix that for her. I would also venture to say that she will probably do the same thing again if this is the case.


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## cdbaker

Stang197 said:


> She admitted that our relationship was formerly loving pre affair in her post. If she wasn't happy and blamed me that makes her codependent and I can't fix that for her. I would also venture to say that she will probably do the same thing again if this is the case.


Maybe I missed that part, I saw the post about how miserable she was before the marriage. And I certainly couldn't agree that being unhappy and blaming you makes her codependent... Even if she were co-dependent however (and she could totally be, I don't know), I don't see how that would make her more likely to cheat again, unless you are treating her poorly in which case it is certainly possible.

In any case dude, like I said at the start, just make up your mind. Just tell her that you are in or you are out, and let her make the same decision, and go forward with whatever that decision may be. There is no reason to keep dragging this out forever.


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## Stang197

nursejackie said:


> This thread is horrifying and sad other than that ?I have no words


Tell me about it. Someday I hope I can wake up from this.


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## Divinely Favored

cdbaker said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She admitted that our relationship was formerly loving pre affair in her post. If she wasn't happy and blamed me that makes her codependent and I can't fix that for her. I would also venture to say that she will probably do the same thing again if this is the case.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I missed that part, I saw the post about how miserable she was before the marriage. And I certainly couldn't agree that being unhappy and blaming you makes her codependent... Even if she were co-dependent however (and she could totally be, I don't know), I don't see how that would make her more likely to cheat again, unless you are treating her poorly in which case it is certainly possible.
> 
> In any case dude, like I said at the start, just make up your mind. Just tell her that you are in or you are out, and let her make the same decision, and go forward with whatever that decision may be. There is no reason to keep dragging this out forever.
Click to expand...


Look a few pages back where I said she speaks with a forked tongue and quoted a response from her saying previous to all this the marriage was loving....

...she has basically screwed it up and he was trying to hit back. 

The only way I could see getting back is to either leave and go off the grid. Like Wrangler Man did. Best exposure story ever! Or make her fall in love with you again and 10 yrs from now divorce and run off with her best friend ...or OM's wife.


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## vox.populi

Listening to some White Stripes at work made me think about you Stang. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Z0H8CHPIU

Here's hoping that you have up and left her.


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## Stang197

Divinely Favored said:


> cdbaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She admitted that our relationship was formerly loving pre affair in her post. If she wasn't happy and blamed me that makes her codependent and I can't fix that for her. I would also venture to say that she will probably do the same thing again if this is the case.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I missed that part, I saw the post about how miserable she was before the marriage. And I certainly couldn't agree that being unhappy and blaming you makes her codependent... Even if she were co-dependent however (and she could totally be, I don't know), I don't see how that would make her more likely to cheat again, unless you are treating her poorly in which case it is certainly possible.
> 
> In any case dude, like I said at the start, just make up your mind. Just tell her that you are in or you are out, and let her make the same decision, and go forward with whatever that decision may be. There is no reason to keep dragging this out forever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look a few pages back where I said she speaks with a forked tongue and quoted a response from her saying previous to all this the marriage was loving....
> 
> ...she has basically screwed it up and he was trying to hit back.
> 
> The only way I could see getting back is to either leave and go off the grid. Like Wrangler Man did. Best exposure story ever! Or make her fall in love with you again and 10 yrs from now divorce and run off with her best friend ...or OM's wife.
Click to expand...

That would be the ultimate revenge to stay for another 10 years and then leave her. A lot of people here think that I went way overboard but that I think would be far more devastating. As cold and heartless people think I am, I don't think I could do that. That I'm sure would make me feel like a heartless jerk. 
The way she feels about us divorcing makes me think that if I left now that would be enough. She has probably already gone through enough. I know a lot of people here think that cheaters can never get enough punishment but after everything, I don't have the heart to dish out anymore. 
If I decide to ever divorce her, I am going to do it for me and my kids because I feel that it's the best choice.


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## eastsouth2000

the pain is real. but as they say time heals all wounds, well the truth about that i dont know.

drown your nightmare's with love.
love of your children, the family and your wife.

continue to make new memories!

let it go! sing that song.


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## Stang197

eastsouth2000 said:


> the pain is real. but as they say time heals all wounds, well the truth about that i dont know.
> 
> drown your nightmare's with love.
> love of your children, the family and your wife.
> 
> continue to make new memories!
> 
> let it go! sing that song.


We do make new memories but I have not been moving forward at all. Keep going back and forth on whether or not to give this another shot. One of my biggest problems is that I feel weak for even considering it. Then again I feel like it would be weak to walk away.


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## carmen ohio

Dear Stang197,

As you have acknowledged, yours is one very messed up situation. Nevertheless, you, your wife and especially your children need help so, at the risk of sounding like one more clueless responder, let me give you my advice.

The first point I would make is that part of the unfortunate dynamic in your relationship is the result of the birth of your special needs son. There is ample evidence to show that families with special needs children break up much more often than others. My parents had a child who was born with major birth defects when I was about ten years old and I watched what it did to them. They remained together their entire lives and loved each other very much to the end of their days but, my gosh, the fights they would have were truly frightening to a child.

Keep this in mind when dealing with your wife: in some measure, she is reacting emotionally to things beyond her control, as I suspect you are as well. It doesn't excuse what she does or says, but it should help you understand her better.

The second point I would like to make is that, if the two of you are to get past your current marital impasse, one of you is going to have to rise to the occasion, lay your anger and disappointment aside and put up with a bunch of crap until the other (hopefully) responds in kind. I think you are going to have to be the one to do this because you are the husband and, generally, men are better at controlling their emotions.

I realize that this will be difficult, because you believe that your anger is justified and because it will entail the risk that she will take advantage of the truce, but I don't see any other way out. Of course, you don't have to do this, but if you don't, and if she doesn't, what chance is there to reconcile?

I know a lot of people here think that the two of you should just get divorced and move on but, when I listen to what you say about your wife, even though your words are harsh, I hear a man who is in a lot of pain because he still loves his wife, who doesn't know how to express this and who fears that she will reject him even if he does.

Well, maybe she will reject you, maybe even cheat on you again, but if you want to restore your family, aren't you going to have to take that chance?

I hope this is helpful and I wish you and your family well.


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## Stang197

carmen ohio said:


> Dear Stang197,
> 
> As you have acknowledged, yours is one very messed up situation. Nevertheless, you, your wife and especially your children need help so, at the risk of sounding like one more clueless responder, let me give you my advice.
> 
> The first point I would make is that part of the unfortunate dynamic in your relationship is the result of the birth of your special needs son. There is ample evidence to show that families with special needs children break up much more often than others. My parents had a child who was born with major birth defects when I was about ten years old and I watched what it did to them. They remained together their entire lives and loved each other very much to the end of their days but, my gosh, the fights they would have were truly frightening to a child.
> 
> Keep this in mind when dealing with your wife: in some measure, she is reacting emotionally to things beyond her control, as I suspect you are as well. It doesn't excuse what she does or says, but it should help you understand her better.
> 
> The second point I would like to make is that, if the two of you are to get past your current marital impasse, one of you is going to have to rise to the occasion, lay your anger and disappointment aside and put up with a bunch of crap until the other (hopefully) responds in kind. I think you are going to have to be the one to do this because you are the husband and, generally, men are better at controlling their emotions.
> 
> I realize that this will be difficult, because you believe that your anger is justified and because it will entail the risk that she will take advantage of the truce, but I don't see any other way out. Of course, you don't have to do this, but if you don't, and if she doesn't, what chance is there to reconcile?
> 
> I know a lot of people here think that the two of you should just get divorced and move on but, when I listen to what you say about your wife, even though your words are harsh, I hear a man who is in a lot of pain because he still loves his wife, who doesn't know how to express this and who fears that she will reject him even if he does.
> 
> Well, maybe she will reject you, maybe even cheat on you again, but if you want to restore your family, aren't you going to have to take that chance?
> 
> I hope this is helpful and I wish you and your family well.


Thank you Carmen. You sound like a sweet person with a good heart. I do still love her and our family. That does make it hard. I think everyone who has posted has probably had their fill of pain too. Life sucks sometimes. I really appreciate all the time people have put into their responses.
Having a special needs child has been really hard on both of us. We struggle every day. Our child has had a tough life so far with numerous hospital stays, surgerys, and will probably have learning problems. We love him. He is a sweet child. He is very loving. He is loved. 
When he was born, I was determined to not let this be something that was insurmountable. I did end up saying things to my wife that were wrong when we fought. For that I will forever be sorry. I didn't show her how scared I was. I think I was in denial that the whole thing was happening. She felt alone in this. She thought she was the only one worried. 
I wasn't there for her the way I should have been.


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## happyman64

> For that I will forever be sorry. I didn't show her how scared I was. I think I was in denial that the whole thing was happening. She felt alone in this. She thought she was the only one worried.
> I wasn't there for her the way I should have been.


That happens in these situations Stang.

Have you expressed those very thoughts to her?

It does not justify her bad decisions but you two need to communicate no matter what happens in your marriage.


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## Stang197

happyman64 said:


> For that I will forever be sorry. I didn't show her how scared I was. I think I was in denial that the whole thing was happening. She felt alone in this. She thought she was the only one worried.
> I wasn't there for her the way I should have been.
> 
> 
> 
> That happens in these situations Stang.
> 
> Have you expressed those very thoughts to her?
> 
> It does not justify her bad decisions but you two need to communicate no matter what happens in your marriage.
Click to expand...

Ya we have discussed this alot. I think we both were very depressed. Our fighting got way out of control. Now everything is much worse.


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## carmen ohio

Stang197 said:


> Thank you Carmen. You sound like a sweet person with a good heart. I do still love her and our family. That does make it hard. I think everyone who has posted has probably had their fill of pain too. Life sucks sometimes. I really appreciate all the time people have put into their responses.
> Having a special needs child has been really hard on both of us. We struggle every day. Our child has had a tough life so far with numerous hospital stays, surgerys, and will probably have learning problems. We love him. He is a sweet child. He is very loving. He is loved.
> When he was born, I was determined to not let this be something that was insurmountable. I did end up saying things to my wife that were wrong when we fought. For that I will forever be sorry. I didn't show her how scared I was. I think I was in denial that the whole thing was happening. She felt alone in this. She thought she was the only one worried.
> I wasn't there for her the way I should have been.


Stang,

If you told her this, just like you have here, I think it would be a very good starting point for trying to rebuild your marriage.

Then, you have to work on controlling your temper and learning to put up with her when she gets out of line. If you could do these things, I would think that there is hope for keeping your family together.

The other thing I would suggest is that you pray daily (if not more often) for guidance and strength.

BTW, few people who know me would describe me as being _"sweet,"_ but I'm happy to take any compliments I can get. As for the _"good heart,"_ my heart goes out to you and your wife for the burden you share in raising your children. Know that, when you are older like me, there is nothing you will be more proud of than what you did for your family and nothing that you will regret more than the things you could have done for them but didn't.

Wishing the best for you.


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## Threeblessings

Wow! So your wife cheated on you and you do the exact same thing to her? In her presence or not that was a dog thing to do. My husband cheated on me twice (now separated) but there is no way I could bring myself to seek revenge by finding someone else to shag. All you did was stoop to her level. Clearly you have no morals and if you have a conscience this will eat at you someday!


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## Locke.Stratos

Threeblessings said:


> Wow! So your wife cheated on you and you do the exact same thing to her? In her presence or not that was a dog thing to do. My husband cheated on me twice (now separated) but *there is no way I could bring myself to seek revenge by finding someone else to shag*. All you did was stoop to her level. Clearly you have no morals and if you have a conscience this will eat at you someday!


Well that's you, and I disagree. He told her that is she wanted him she would have to watch him have sex with another woman and she agreed. She didn't have to, she could have told him to f*** off. There were no lies, deception, manipulation and sneaking around involved on his part. If anything, his sleeping with another woman probably absolved her of any regret or guilt she felt (if any) over her affair.


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## Threeblessings

Locke.Stratos said:


> Well that's you, and I disagree. He told her that is she wanted him she would have to watch him have sex with another woman and she agreed. She didn't have to, she could have told him to f*** off. There were no lies, deception, manipulation and sneaking around involved on his part. If anything, his sleeping with another woman probably absolved her of any regret or guilt she felt (if any) over her affair.


And that's why we all have different opinions. Regardless of whether he told her or not the action isn't going to make the situation better, is it? In terms of regret or guilt if she held either emotion his decision to have sex in front of her with someone else adds fuel to the fire! I believe he retaliated to show her what 'it feels like' to screw someone else! 

FYI - I used to live in Southern Africa too.


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## Stang197

Threeblessings said:


> Wow! So your wife cheated on you and you do the exact same thing to her? In her presence or not that was a dog thing to do. My husband cheated on me twice (now separated) but there is no way I could bring myself to seek revenge by finding someone else to shag. All you did was stoop to her level. Clearly you have no morals and if you have a conscience this will eat at you someday!


I guess your a much better person than me. My feeling at the time was if I stayed faithful I would have been more bitter over time. I think I was trying to reframe this as a short period in our marriage where we had an open marriage. That is how I dealt with it. I told her it was that or divorce. She agreed. Who knows what is going to happen now. Not sure that makes me a dog though. All I know is that I was not going to be some run of the mill chump. I was faithful until this horrible time.


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## Stang197

Threeblessings said:


> Locke.Stratos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's you, and I disagree. He told her that is she wanted him she would have to watch him have sex with another woman and she agreed. She didn't have to, she could have told him to f*** off. There were no lies, deception, manipulation and sneaking around involved on his part. If anything, his sleeping with another woman probably absolved her of any regret or guilt she felt (if any) over her affair.
> 
> 
> 
> And that's why we all have different opinions. Regardless of whether he told her or not the action isn't going to make the situation better, is it? In terms of regret or guilt if she held either emotion his decision to have sex in front of her with someone else adds fuel to the fire! I believe he retaliated to show her what 'it feels like' to screw someone else!
> 
> FYI - I used to live in Southern Africa too.
Click to expand...

I don't think this took away her guilt. She said that she felt relief that maybe we could put this behind us. Didn't really add any fuel to the fire as this was burning as hot as it gets.


----------

