# can't believe I am here



## 845dad

First off I love my wife and 3 kids but we have been moving apart for the last couple of years despite my trying to be there for her and the family. A couple of years ago she got into crossfit...i mean really into it..every day for a couple of hours.. I never worried about it but it was really ****ing up the home life in that house was going to ****.. As the house seems to get worse the exercise regime gets more and more intense..its a vicious circle. Long story short, she moves on to strong-woman competition ****.. I let her go because I know it makes her happy...A long year later she is spending 25 hours a week at the gym keeping the kids with her till way to late (10pm) at night. Oh I forgot to mention she this place is 35 miles from our house. So last week I am at work and I get this text from the gym owners wife which says she had just looked at her husbands texts and phonecalls (not the texts themselves just volume) and that she had just confronted him (he admits to having an emotional relationship) and kicked him out. When I got home I confronted my wife and she says nothing happened and she is not happy. So being the dumbass that I am I believe her. She stopped going to the gym so I figured things may be on the mend. A week later I get another text to ask about a certain day...I start checking the texts phone call times and ezpass info and it looks like she made herself a 2 hour date after I had driven home from a family vacation in DC (8 hour drive). She denies everything and is asking for a divorce based on the fact I do not trust her and I am snooping on her...is there any hope...I just feel like a fool for allowing her addiction.


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## EleGirl

Sorry you are here... what you are going through sucks to but it bluntly.

A good place to start is with the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. Send his wife a copy of the book too if you want help in keeping this guy away from your wife. He needs to be very busy fixing his own marriage if his wife will have him back. The best thing for you would be if she took him back.

The book gives you the steps that you need to go through....
She has to go no contact with the OM. There is no chance of recovery until she does that. No contact is done with a letter (search on "no contact letter" for the format of one. Your wife writes it and then it's sent out with you as a witness to sending it out.

At about the time she stated the cross fit, how many hours a week were you two spending going things together that you enjoyed, just the two of you?


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## 845dad

almost none...the kids 4,8, and 11 are watched by me almost every day either after I get home or if I have the day off. Looking back I should have done more date time and less time trying to make her happy by watching the kids and letting go to the gym...and the stupid shall be punished


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## EleGirl

845dad said:


> almost none...the kids 4,8, and 11 are watched by me almost every day either after I get home or if I have the day off. Looking back I should have done more date time and less time trying to make her happy by watching the kids and letting go to the gym...and the stupid shall be punished


The reason I asked is that this is so predictable. Did she say much to you before about needing more time with just you? Often both spouses are negligent with the time together.

But right now you have a wife who is lying and still seeing the OM, right? 

Have you exposed the affair to anyone else.. like her family? Generally it's a good idea to tell her family and ask them for help in recovering your marriage. They might be willing to put some pressure on her to do the right thing.


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## tom67

Expose to her family and yours.
Only talk about the kids.
Go see a lawyer and know your legal options.
Consider filing to wake her up.
Put the pos om on cheaterville and stick to the truth.
Talk to his wife asap and gather intel, you need it!


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## lordmayhem

Almost identical to hawx20's story. WW suddenly spends all her time at the gym and starts cheating.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/142681-just-busted-her.html

And there have been others. Sudden interest in working and going to the gym is a huge red flag and the basis for a lot of affairs seen here in this forum.


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## lordmayhem

845dad said:


> She denies everything and is asking for a divorce based on the fact I do not trust her and I am snooping on her...is there any hope...I just feel like a fool for allowing her addiction.


Standard cheater tactic. Its called blame shifting and manipulation. They almost always do that when caught - How dare you check up on me! I want a divorce because you don't trust me. This is word for word out of the cheaters handbook.

File for divorce and have her served. Then you will see a change of heart all of a sudden. This is a manipulation tactic to get you to back off on investigating her.


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## EleGirl

845dad,

By the way, while it sounds like you want to try to save your marriage it's wise for you to find out the divorce laws in your state now so that you know what's up and what's down.

For example in some states, adultery can be listed as the basis of divorce and it makes HUGE difference. In these states it affects custody and alimony/spousal support.

IT's hard to prove adultery, but you might be able to.

In some of these states if you have sex with your wife after you discover the affair, it's assume that you have forgiven or accepted the affair and it cannot be used as the reason for divorce.

I'm not trying to push you for either recovery or divorce, just wanting to give you info.


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## 845dad

Thank you all for the advice. I have already told two of her sisters that I thought she was cheating..I will definitely stop being a pushover. I have made myself far too accommodating. She needs to realize that her life of bliss is over she will have to move into an apartment and she will not have the ability to go to the gym at all hours. And I will make her aware that the man she cheated on me with at the first opportunity dumped her like a steaming pile of ****... I just worry for my kids..


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## warlock07

What is the financial situation like ? Is she dependent on you ?

What did her sisters say ?

Do you have access to her phone records ?

Talk to a lawyer immediately.


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## 845dad

I have been pouring through the phone records and it looks like the relationship started about a year ago...things went downhill last August when she got in a car accident with my youngest (3 at the time) We had all gone to a local water park in two cars because she was going to go to the gym after. Well long story short the 3 year old was being grumpy and in her typical overreacting fashion she decided to teach her a lesson and take her home...I know she was angry and I know from the damage on the other car that she at no time hit the brakes,,,she was reaching for her coffee. Maybe I should have been more concerned for her safety but to be completely honest it was just a matter of time. The minivan she usually drives has literally no quarter panel without damage..she just doesn't pay attention. I still have access to the phone records due to me being the owner of the account and I am also the titile holder on all 3 cars,,,,which I am sure she hasn't figured out yet


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## barbados

845,

Your WW basically abandoned the family. 25 hours a week at the gym ? Are you kidding me ? She is having at least an EA, and I seriously doubt that it is not a full blown PA, and has been for some time.

Also, she sounds like a completely selfish person. Its all about her. Even the way she drives indicates this. Doesn't care about the car, drives in her own little world, etc.

I am guessing that your sex life took a nose dive when she started heavy at the gym also.

I know you have 3 young kids but is this the person you want a future with ?


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## Joka

845dad said:


> First off I love my wife and 3 kids but we have been moving apart for the last couple of years despite my trying to be there for her and the family. A couple of years ago she got into crossfit...i mean really into it..every day for a couple of hours.. I never worried about it but it was really ****ing up the home life in that house was going to ****.. As the house seems to get worse the exercise regime gets more and more intense..its a vicious circle. Long story short, she moves on to strong-woman competition ****.. I let her go because I know it makes her happy...A long year later she is spending 25 hours a week at the gym keeping the kids with her till way to late (10pm) at night. Oh I forgot to mention she this place is 35 miles from our house. So last week I am at work and I get this text from the gym owners wife which says she had just looked at her husbands texts and phonecalls (not the texts themselves just volume) and that she had just confronted him (he admits to having an emotional relationship) and kicked him out. When I got home I confronted my wife and she says nothing happened and she is not happy. So being the dumbass that I am I believe her. She stopped going to the gym so I figured things may be on the mend. A week later I get another text to ask about a certain day...I start checking the texts phone call times and ezpass info and it looks like she made herself a 2 hour date after I had driven home from a family vacation in DC (8 hour drive). She denies everything and is asking for a divorce based on the fact I do not trust her and I am snooping on her...is there any hope...I just feel like a fool for allowing her addiction.


845, Listen to what the people that have responded tell you. They know what they are talking about. They have been supporting me through my ordeal and it has helped me in so many ways.
The bottom line, you know what you know, don't let a cheater tell you otherwise. They are protecting themselves, not you.
Good luck


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## Luvmyjava

I think you should pour yourself a drink, and sit back and read my recent thread.
Pretty much may describe what lies ahead for you:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...-confessed-how-handle-her-romps-loverboy.html


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## Hicks

Talk to a laywer first. In NY the primary parent gets all the child support. For 3 kids that is 29% of gross income. It's in your best interest to document yourself as the primary care giver. The cards are stacked against fathers. You want to let your wife continue to discard her parental resp while you document away.


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## Graywolf2

845dad said:


> As the house seems to get worse the exercise regime gets more and more intense..its a vicious circle. Long story short, she moves on to strong-woman competition. A long year later she is spending 25 hours a week at the gym keeping the kids with her till way to late (10pm) at night.





845dad said:


> Well long story short the 3 year old was being grumpy and in her typical overreacting fashion she decided to teach her a lesson and take her home...I know she was angry and I know from the damage on the other car that she at no time hit the brakes.


*Is she on steroids?*



845dad said:


> I start checking the texts phone call times and ezpass info and it looks like she made herself a 2 hour date after I had driven home from a family vacation in DC (8 hour drive). She denies everything.


*Did you give the OMW this information?*


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## cool12

what a mess. i'm sorry for you and your family that your WW is acting so irresponsibly and hateful. 

you've been given good advice so far and it sounds like you're being level headed and practical about it all.

do you have a plan for when she tells you she's made a terrible mistake and wants the marriage to work after all? if not, get one.


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## Rugs

What you decide to do as far as saving your marriage is your desicion but neglecting your children is very destructive. I try to squeeze in one hour of exercise four times a week with two teenagers AND I don't work. Kids and a home are a full time job.

WTH, a four year old, eight year old, and an eleven year old and never home. Completely unacceptable behavior. 

You need to put your foot down now, today!! Who cares what your wife wants, don't be afraid of her. She is neglecting her family. If she didn't want THREE children, she should have thought about that before she had them. 

Tell her she needs to stop this NOW and get her in-shape a$$ home today. 

I would strongly suggest having divorce papers ready if she gives you ANY push-back. I mean ANY. 

This has gone on waaaay to long. It sounds like POSOM has thrown her under the bus anyway. 

Dont waiver on being tough, think of your children. She needs to snap out of this and fast.


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## tom67

Take half out of the joint acct. and get one in your name only she may be out for blood, prepare.


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## TurtleRun

Since the OM wife has been contacting you ask for copy of the proof. Until then don't say anything else to your wife. Why confront her without hard proof ? Of course she is going to deny it and now she is a step ahead to hide everything unless you can get info from the OM wife.


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## Rugs

Proof? The proof is this woman is not home! 

Tell your wife to get her butt home.


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## Harken Banks

Read as many threads here as you can find that start with discovery of unusual texting or other communication followed by blameshifting and statements about having been unhappy, wanting a divorce, and wanting to get away. Tip of the iceberg. Here are two lessons I have learned about dealing with the immediate aftermath of discovering an affair:

There is no percentage in pleading or competing for your cheating wife's affection. It's like fuel to the fire and just makes you look even more the way she may already see you, unworthy, pathetic. Now add to that devastated and desperate. Take as much as you can of the pain and despair over seeming loss of your family as you knew it, your children's family and world, and put it in a box for later. It won't help you or them now. It's totally counterintuitive when you are going through this sh*t and you want to cling to every thing that was or that you thought was, but was is gone. You'll look weak. (I did all this wrong, by the way.) Keep your head high, accept at face that she has chosen a path inconsistent with the continuation of your marriage, don't argue it, prepare and plan rationally for life after marriage, most importantly, the best for your kids. By all means, consult with a divorce lawyer for the lay of land, including costs of divorce, asset split, alimony and child support, custody, family home, dogs, cats, cars, and so on. Got to know what you are facing, especially if she is throwing around terms like divorce. That information will help you assess the situation more calmly and rationally. So your internal reaction when she screams "I want a divorce!" is "Okay, I know what that means." It can be a really unsettling and upsetting word for someone with 3 kids and mortgage. When said in anger, I think it is supposed to be unsettling and to prey on the uncertainty and anxiety you already no doubt are experiencing. But knowing the angles and likely fallout can be calming and allow you to respond, "OK, let's sort that out. Here are my thoughts." Made a difference for me. I didn't like it, but at least I knew what it was.

One of the most damaging and confusing things early on is to get spun around by the impossible denials, implausible explanations, raging indignation, and so on. It's all defense mechanism to put you in your already hobbled state further on your heals questioning your sense of reality and whether by even asking these questions you might destroy the marriage and family. (I failed pretty badly here again, too.) It's cruelty on top of cruelty. Maybe more from an instinct of self-preservation than a desire to inflict pain and maybe a healthy mix of both, but at best and in the most charitable light indifference to the cruelty and damage done. 

Work with OMW if you can to get to the bottom if it. Unless you move on and decide that is information you do not need. My sense is most who have suffered spousal infidelity and tried to work through it could not find where to start without first being satisfied, after the lies and insults and insulting lies, that they know knew what happened (I think the truth is that whatever you learn you will always wonder what about what you do not know, and no doubt that knowledge and uncertainty will keep you up some nights and night and day forever color your view of the marriage, except sometimes when you forget for a while), what it was they were supposed to move beyond. Best wishes.


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## badmemory

845dad said:


> I have been pouring through the phone records and it looks like the relationship started about a year ago


You need to decide if a PA is a deal breaker for you. 

I don't believe in absolutes, but for them to be communicating for that length of time, with the ample opportunity for them to meet up; the odds of this only being an EA are very, very, small. Cheating men don't play around with EA's that long, and in a gym environment? Please. You should absolutely assume this was a PA.

I would also suggest that if she doesn't admit that it was, and give you a written time line; you don't have a starting point for R.


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## 6301

What you have here is a irresponsible woman who thinks only about herself and has betrayed you and your family.

Now she wants a divorce. IMO, give it to her and let her know that she'll get all the exercise she needs getting up every morning, going to work and earning a paycheck. 

If I were you, I would ask the OM wife for a copy of her proof to go along with yours, secure it some place safe, get a lawyer and watch her squirm when she finds out that you have had enough.


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## Machiavelli

845dad said:


> First off I love my wife and 3 kids but we have been moving apart for the last couple of years despite my trying to be there for her and the family. A couple of years ago she got into crossfit...i mean really into it..every day for a couple of hours.. I


Yeah, it's a cult.



845dad said:


> never worried about it but it was really ****ing up the home life in that house was going to ****.. As the house seems to get worse the exercise regime gets more and more intense..its a vicious circle. Long story short, she moves on to strong-woman competition ****..


Strong woman, huh? Most likely her boyfriend has her stash, since she sees him everyday. However, tear her car apart and see if you can find it. What has her sex drive, at least the part that you see, been like? Has she built an outrageous amount of muscle?



845dad said:


> I let her go because I know it makes her happy...A long year later she is spending 25 hours a week at the gym keeping the kids with her till way to late (10pm) at night. Oh I forgot to mention she this place is 35 miles from our house. So last week I am at work and I get this text from the gym owners wife which says she had just looked at her husbands texts and phonecalls (not the texts themselves just volume) and that she had just confronted him (he admits to having an emotional relationship) and kicked him out. When I got home I confronted my wife and she says nothing happened and she is not happy. So being the dumbass that I am I believe her. She stopped going to the gym so I figured things may be on the mend. A week later I get another text to ask about a certain day...I start checking the texts phone call times and ezpass info and it looks like she made herself a 2 hour date after I had driven home from a family vacation in DC (8 hour drive). She denies everything and is asking for a divorce based on the fact I do not trust her and I am snooping on her...is there any hope...I just feel like a fool for allowing her addiction.


Keep snooping. Put a VAR in her car. Under the driver's seat is good. She wants a divorce quickly, because there is most likely more to this story and she doesn't want that to get out. When women go on the juice, they get hornier than a dozen 14 year old boys put together. They are up for anything and I mean anything.

Do you want to get rid of her or do you want to reconcile?


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## Dyokemm

That text telling you to ask about a certain day IS the smoking gun.

She is a total liar when she claims they never had sex.

Then only way that text happens is because her POSOM confessed to his BW that they had sex on that day.

File for D and expose the A to both your families and all friends, including the fact that you know it was a PA because the POS confessed it to his BW, who then informed you.

She needs to see that her easy life as she knows it is coming to an end...and that everyone will know that the real reason for the D is because she is a faithless cheater.

Only if she sees her life is about to come crashing down around her MIGHT she wake up and start doing the things you would find necessary to fix the M.

Until you see real remorse, COMPLETE honesty, total dedication to getting counseling to fix her issues, and an unwavering commitment to helping you heal, continue with the D.

If she doesn't do these things, you will be better off without her.


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## Thorburn

When my unit was training at Fort Polk, LA, for our mission to Iraq, we had sixty Navy Seals living and training with us out in the training area for about two months. Many of them did Crossfit training. That was my first introduction to it. When I got to Iraq some of us did Crossfit for a few months. It was brutal. I can't imagine doing 25 hours a week, but I was never a super athelete.

One Crossfit workout was 100 pull ups, 100 push ups, 100 squats and 100 sit ups, all done within 20 to 40 minutes. 

Crossfit is intended to be done fairly quickly.

Don't believe a word your wife says. Her threats of divorce because of trust and snooping is all defensive as she is lying.


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## michzz

barbados said:


> 845,
> 
> *Your WW basically abandoned the family. 25 hours a week at the gym ? Are you kidding me ? She is having at least an EA, and I seriously doubt that it is not a full blown PA, and has been for some time.
> *


She is NOT working out in the traditional sense for 25 hours a week.


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## OnTheRocks

Thorburn said:


> One Crossfit workout was 100 pull ups, 100 push ups, 100 squats and 100 sit ups, all done within 20 to 40 minutes.


"Angie" is a cruel b1tch.  I think my last time on that one was 28:something. I've been doing crossfit for about 2 1/2 years now and really love it, but the cultish kool-aid drinkers are SO annoying. 

845dad, you are getting solid advice. Talk to a lawyer, and keep your cool for a while if possible. Let her go further off the deep end with the xfit, and you can start documenting being the primary caregiver.


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## CASE_Sensitive

You need to put a VAR in her car and have a sit down with POSOM's wife. Time to start comparing notes, getting research done and speak to a lawyer asap.


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## jorgegene

One of the most rediculous things in all this is her saying she wants a divorce because she can't trust you for snooping.

Read through these threads and the more you understand that a spouse has a right to snoop when there is reason to.

Either that or live a lie.

She needs to learn a lesson I'm afraid. She sounds like a defiant, entitled, unrepentant lying cheater.

Surely there was some good things in her character once upon a time. what the heck happened?


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## tom67

jorgegene said:


> One of the most rediculous things in all this is her saying she wants a divorce because she can't trust you for snooping.
> 
> Read through these threads and the more you understand that a spouse has a right to snoop when there is reason to.
> 
> Either that or live a lie.
> 
> She needs to learn a lesson I'm afraid. She sounds like a defiant, entitled, unrepentant lying cheater.
> 
> Surely there was some good things in her character once upon a time. what the heck happened?


She's roided up that's what happened.


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## 845dad

so just set up my own bank account...you guys are going to love this one...a two weeks ago she tells me about a groupon to ply to orland ..so i get the tickets in anticipation of a week at disney...talked to the cheaters wife...guess who else had tickets on that flight...you guessed it him and his family....i do not deserve this and will not stand for it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HubbyDaddy2013

845dad said:


> so just set up my own bank account...you guys are going to love this one...a two weeks ago she tells me about a groupon to ply to orland ..so i get the tickets in anticipation of a week at disney...talked to the cheaters wife...guess who else had tickets on that flight...you guessed it him and his family....i do not deserve this and will not stand for it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WOW! 

What evil planning and deception they did with each other

Divorce her!


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## badmemory

845dad said:


> so just set up my own bank account...you guys are going to love this one...a two weeks ago she tells me about a groupon to ply to orland ..so i get the tickets in anticipation of a week at disney...talked to the cheaters wife...guess who else had tickets on that flight...you guessed it him and his family....i do not deserve this and will not stand for it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just confirms what we were already sure of 845dad. I know it sucks.


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## michzz

845dad said:


> so just set up my own bank account...you guys are going to love this one...a two weeks ago she tells me about a groupon to ply to orland ..so i get the tickets in anticipation of a week at disney...talked to the cheaters wife...*guess who else had tickets on that flight.*..you guessed it him and his family....i do not deserve this and will not stand for it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cancel the vacation, get the divorce going. Oh, and don't tell her the Vaycay is cancelled until about an hour before the flight.


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## TurtleRun

845dad said:


> so just set up my own bank account...you guys are going to love this one...a two weeks ago she tells me about a groupon to ply to orland ..so i get the tickets in anticipation of a week at disney...talked to the cheaters wife...guess who else had tickets on that flight...you guessed it him and his family....i do not deserve this and will not stand for it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well now that is just a new kind of evil....


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## Thorburn

I took my wife to Disney twice. The second trip was horrible. She basically ignored me due to the fact that she was already having a PA with the XOM. We get back from Disney on a Saturday and the XOM and his family leave for Disney the following Friday and went everywhere my wife and I did. I was clueless during this time. Every thing that I thought was special was ruined once I found out about the affair.

i will never go to Disney nor Florida again. She stayed in contact with the XOM during our time there, via secret phone and internet.


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## Dyokemm

Thorburn,

I can see why that would trigger you...pretty revolting behavior by your WW.

OP's WW seems to have done her one better though.

These two disgusting cheaters actually had the gall to make plans to troop BOTH of their spouses and families down there simultaneously, apparently with the plan to sneak off and spend some alone time with each other while their BSs and kids were doing vacation activities.

Truly obnoxious and disgusting behavior.

And she is still denying it and calling him a snoop...lol

I wonder how she is liking the tread marks of the karma bus as POSOM throws her under it in a desperate bid to save his own a**?


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## 3putt

845dad said:


> so just set up my own bank account...you guys are going to love this one...a two weeks ago she tells me about a groupon to ply to orland ..so i get the tickets in anticipation of a week at disney...talked to the cheaters wife...guess who else had tickets on that flight...you guessed it him and his family....i do not deserve this and will not stand for it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Holy crap!!


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## mahike

Well I am pretty sure she was in a full blown PA but that is just my opinion. Two people working out for over a year together!

Have you looked at her phone? do you have access to facebook and her email accounts?

Keep checking the phone records I am sure that it will keep up


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## tom67

Wow...
Don't forget to get checked for STDs good job on the bank.
Un freaking real.:slap::wtf:


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## Dyokemm

"Well I am pretty sure she was in a full blown PA but that is just my opinion."

Yeah...he is getting all the confirmation he needs from POS via his BW.

Just another example of why it is so essential to expose to the other BS.

OP's WW is being steamrolled by her own 'loverboy' as far as her gaslighting and denials go.

She's still denying and calling OP a stalker...and the whole while her POS is exposing her as a liar and making her look like a selfish, clueless fool through his confessions to his BW.


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## Hope1964

I am glad to see you're getting pissed at what she's trying to pull here. What a piece of work she is!!

You need to get yourself tested for STD's. 

You should also keep communicating with the OM's wife. It's common for someone to believe their cheating spouse over some random person who says they're cheating - don't feel bad about not believing her. I admire what she did - kicked her cheating husbands a$$ right out of the house - that's my kind of betrayed spouse!  Is she here on TAM?


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## tom67

Leave her a paper with the want ads open.
Tell her she'll need a job after the divorce.
Is the gym membership prepaid? If not cancel.


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## mahike

Yep, she is gas lighting. You should expose what you know to her family and yours, blow it up. She has no where to go with this. How do you talk off the same flight and at least the partial confession from that pos he gave to his wife

I would expose and show her the door. I know it is tough with the kids but she has to stop her blame shifting BS


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## tom67

mahike said:


> Yep, she is gas lighting. You should expose what you know to her family and yours, blow it up. She has no where to go with this. How do you talk off the same flight and at least the partial confession from that pos he gave to his wife
> 
> I would expose and show her the door. I know it is tough with the kids but she has to stop her blame shifting BS


Expose before she rewrites history so to speak.


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## badmemory

mahike said:


> Y How do you talk off the same flight and at least the partial confession from that pos he gave to his wife


Based on how OP has described her, I'm sure she'll give it her best shot.

"What's the big deal, we both became aware of the groupons and both decided to take advantage of the discount. I can't help it if he decided to take his family at the same time. How do you think we could even meet each other with our families with us. You're delusional."

or

"Those coupons were for specific dates and we both decided to take our families. Is that against the law?"

Wait for it OP, the gaslighting is coming.


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## barbados

EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE ! And make sure you tell POSOM's BW about the "travel plans" !


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## Luvmyjava

845dad said:


> so just set up my own bank account...you guys are going to love this one...a two weeks ago she tells me about a groupon to ply to orland ..so i get the tickets in anticipation of a week at disney...talked to the cheaters wife...guess who else had tickets on that flight...you guessed it him and his family....i do not deserve this and will not stand for it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow!
I'm surprised my STBX didn't come up with this one.. Phew...

I would've have kept the plans. but after finding out of the POSOM plans, I would have altered my course. Went elsewhere, and conveniently either lost her phone, or shut it down


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## Healer

If this isn't a full blown PA I'll eat a dumbbell.


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## tom67

Healer said:


> If this isn't a full blown PA I'll eat a dumbbell.


I want to see that.


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## Dyokemm

"And make sure you tell POSOM's BW about the "travel plans" !"

OMW was the one who informed OP that they were traveling there the same week. She seems to be doing a great job of passing her discoveries on to OP.

I think POS is confessing all to his BW because he got the boot ASAP from his W on D-Day. OM is desperate and probably spilling all their details and plans hoping his BW will give him another chance. At least POS seems to care more about trying to save his M than OP's WW.

While POS is giving up all the sordid details, she is sitting there gaslighting and accusing OP of stalking her.

I wonder if OP's WW knows she is being thrown under the bus by POS?

She sure seems to be unaware that OP has a direct and steady stream of info coming his way that is constantly making her look like a pathetic liar.


----------



## Chaparral

Dyokemm said:


> "And make sure you tell POSOM's BW about the "travel plans" !"
> 
> OMW was the one who informed OP that they were traveling there the same week. She seems to be doing a great job of passing her discoveries on to OP.
> 
> I think POS is confessing all to his BW because he got the boot ASAP from his W on D-Day. OM is desperate and probably spilling all their details and plans hoping his BW will give him another chance. At least POS seems to care more about trying to save his M than OP's WW.
> 
> While POS is giving up all the sordid details, she is sitting there gaslighting and accusing OP of stalking her.
> 
> I wonder if OP's WW knows she is being thrown under the bus by POS?
> 
> She sure seems to be unaware that OP has a direct and steady stream of info coming his way that is constantly making her look like a pathetic liar.


That's why she's still being an a$$. She is still in goo goo land and he's throwing her easy a$$ under the bus to save his a$$. How rich.

Cheaters script deja vu all over again

I would like to see her face when she finds the stool pigeon is her boyfriend.

This has roids all over it. A little too much rage.


----------



## LongWalk

Put POSOM on Cheaterville.


----------



## 845dad

Is there a way to block texts from showing up on the verizon page..my wife texted me tonight and it shows under my number but is not shown under her number??


----------



## HarryDoyle

845dad said:


> Is there a way to block texts from showing up on the verizon page..my wife texted me tonight and it shows under my number but is not shown under her number??


Give it a little while and check later. For Some reason my wife's texts don't show up at the same time as mine either. I have AT&T and we have the exact same phones and were sitting across from each other, So not sure why, but according to AT&T there is no way to block numbers from the the bill and this is not unusual. AND the texts/calls always show up, so go figure.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

TurtleRun said:


> Well now that is just a new kind of evil....


No, actually it is very common. I know of one personally and there are multiple family "vacation" affairs on this board. My favorites are the dual vacations and they decide to "stay up" late while the spouses go to bed because "we're friends they'd never cheat."

Sorry you are here.


----------



## the guy

845dad said:


> First off I love my wife and 3 kids but we have been moving apart for the last couple of years despite my trying to be there for her and the family. A couple of years ago she got into crossfit...i mean really into it..every day for a couple of hours.. I never worried about it but it was really ****ing up the home life in that house was going to ****.. As the house seems to get worse the exercise regime gets more and more intense..its a vicious circle. Long story short, she moves on to strong-woman competition ****.. I let her go because I know it makes her happy...A long year later she is spending 25 hours a week at the gym keeping the kids with her till way to late (10pm) at night. Oh I forgot to mention she this place is 35 miles from our house. So last week I am at work and I get this text from the gym owners wife which says she had just looked at her husbands texts and phonecalls (not the texts themselves just volume) and that she had just confronted him (he admits to having an emotional relationship) and kicked him out. When I got home I confronted my wife and she says nothing happened and she is not happy. So being the dumbass that I am I believe her. She stopped going to the gym so I figured things may be on the mend. A week later I get another text to ask about a certain day...I start checking the texts phone call times and ezpass info and it looks like she made herself a 2 hour date after I had driven home from a family vacation in DC (8 hour drive). She denies everything and is asking for a divorce based on the fact I do not trust her and I am snooping on her...is there any hope...I just feel like a fool for allowing her addiction.


Coming in late but if you haven't heard...well...there is no hope if the affair is on going.
You can't compete with the affair fog...so let her go and show her the new reality of her choices...

Now I'll go back and read the rest of this thread, but until then...just let her go, it might save your marriage!


----------



## the guy

OK....You need to stop giving a phuck about your old lady. The only way to get her to second guess her choices is when she sees you smile and letting her go.

If you want her to think twice about her bull crap she has to see what she is about to lose....A confident guy that can find another chick and some one that doesn't need to compete cuz you can get yours from another women!!

Ya I get it ...been there... but dude if she has your number and thinks you ain't going no were she will screw you over. Hell I love my old lady but damn if I'll stand for any more crap I did back in the day.

#1 chicks dig confident guys #2 find a way to get your old lady to second guess her choices by giving her the tough love reality of it.....ya thats meant to piss them off.....

Thats the thing piss them off...you can't nice your way out of this!
Plus the Om gets to hear your old lady b1tch about you all the time....what fun for hin...right

At the end of the day make this affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible.
Not because you want her back (fake it) but cuz its wrong.

No matter how much you want her back you have to fake it to make it!


----------



## tom67

EleGirl said:


> You are a spammer.


oops:lol:


----------



## Fordsvt

You need to do a hard 180 here. It's a PA for sure. Google it. 
She's out of control and has all the power. You need to up your game. Time for her to get a reality check. 
File for D. Have her served soon. 
Put the Var in the car. 
Compare notes with the other wife. 
Read her phone daily. 
So sorry your here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 845dad

Going to see a conselor tuesday but from what I have seen so far she is an unbelievably selfish sociopath. Not one ounce of regret or remorse shown. On the plus side the OM got slammed by his wife and came crawling back to her and left my unfeeling uncaring robot of a wife with nothing. Not to ramble but its late I really thinkl she has issues, her father was a functioning alcoholic and her mom was an invalid that was probably addicted to pain meds. growing up she had one friend through highschool and was the ugly duckling compared to her. she only had 2 or 3 friends in college and they are all old maids. I find it funny that she is unhappy and will soon have a real reason to be unhappy...


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Look up adult children of alcoholics website for insight into why she's behaving that way. She is adrenaline addicted as if it were crack cocaine. Its why you see no remorse, the addiction is more important than you, though she is clueless to her addiction. There are also other layers there, but she needs help.


----------



## alexm

Ugh, the exercise junkie. Nothing wrong with you folks that are gym rats, but it's rarely a good thing when a spouse suddenly becomes one out of the blue like that.

The culture behind it is not for everybody, and it ALWAYS changes you. As soon as you start losing weight/gaining muscle, whatever it is that's your goal, your entire personality changes, and that's never good for a marriage.

The culture behind it all is that they're now better than the "average" person, and being surrounded by like-minded people while at the gym helps perpetuate it. All of a sudden, her average husband at home is lazy, unmotivated, doesn't care about his appearance, etc. and unfortunately these people are a dime a dozen at the local gym. Boom, affair.

You see this quite often here. One spouse decides to get in shape, and it snowballs. Before you know it, they don't want to be seen in public with you, because they're slim, toned and hot, and you're just an average schlub.

Problem is, you can't talk them out of it, and if you don't join them, you're screwed. Happened to me. My ex wife used to think I was sexy and attractive. I'm a very average build, even naturally muscular. She started by walking, then running, then exercise machines at home, lifting weights, gym membership, the whole nine. A couple of hours a day. Then came the comments about how I should eat better, exercise more, start running - but NEVER that I should join her at the gym... hmmm... Guess she wanted me to slim down first, so she wouldn't be embarrassed bringing her average husband to the gym with her. That was probably also HER domain, where she could get hit on and complimented by the local rats so she could feel good about herself. Gyms can be very sexual places.

I mean no disrespect to you gym rats and exercise freaks. It's a tremendous amount of work and dedication. But it's an obsession, and it's never good when one partner goes that direction without the other. Never ends well.


----------



## turnera

845dad said:


> Thank you all for the advice. I have already told two of her sisters that I thought she was cheating..I will definitely stop being a pushover. I have made myself far too accommodating. She needs to realize that her life of bliss is over she will have to move into an apartment and she will not have the ability to go to the gym at all hours. And I will make her aware that the man she cheated on me with at the first opportunity dumped her like a steaming pile of ****... I just worry for my kids..


Sit down and call ALL of her family. Tell them you're willing to work on the marriage, but the other man has to be out of the picture first. Explain that if he'll cheat WITH her, he'll cheat ON her, so he is not to be trusted. Get his family's numbers from his wife and call them, too. Put him on cheaterville to make your wife too hot to handle. You must do this NOW - no waiting around. Every day you wait is another day they cement their plans and tell everyone that YOU are the crazy one.


----------



## Thorburn

845dad said:


> Is there a way to block texts from showing up on the verizon page..my wife texted me tonight and it shows under my number but is not shown under her number??


I have Verizon and so does my wife and that is how I put thing together. I could see the location of where she was at via the phone records. One town kept showing up and she had no business being there. If I called her or our boys called her the location would show on the record. I lied to Verizon but I got them to tell me about the tower locations and when I comfronted her she told me she was home on those days. Our home in that city has four towers and according to Verizon there was no way it would show her being in this one town unless she was there.

As far as blocking the texts ect. I am not sure. I would check with verison.


----------



## Thorburn

845 - make sure you get rest. It is hard but eat and rest. I have been there.

Don't reveal your source of information to your wife.

My wife had no intention of leaving me for the XOM but last year when I started the process for D she finally repented and came clean on everything. That wsa late April 2013.

On July 6 2013 my wife became ill and it has only progressed. She has Lupus or MS like symptoms. Had she allowed the D to go forward she would had been screwed. She can't work. She can drive only occasionally and basically can't anymore. She has one medical appointment after another. She is not elgible for Social Security disability. 

Let her go. Do the 180 hard. Her fantasy world is about to crumble.


----------



## mahike

A lot of emotions are churning right now. Thorburn is right about the rest and eating. This is going to be a tough time for you. You took a positive step opening up a new bank account

Someone mentioned the fog and simply put it is the delusional state your wife is living in. Rainbows and Unicorns.

1. Expose this A to her family and yours. Do not worry about saving face. This is to give your wife more to deal with and it is based in reality and not fantasy. A bucket of cold water on her dreams.

2. Go get checked for STD's no matter what she tells you, she is first a liar and a cheat. Tell your doctor why you need this done and get a check up. You need to watch your health.

3. File for D. No matter if you want a D or not file. This is an emotional slap to the face for your wife. She needs to know you are in charge and no more BS

4. Tell her to get out there is the door.

5. Start the 180 and only talk with her about the kids and nothing else right now.


----------



## Dyokemm

"The culture behind it is not for everybody, and it ALWAYS changes you. As soon as you start losing weight/gaining muscle, whatever it is that's your goal, your entire personality changes, and that's never good for a marriage.

The culture behind it all is that they're now better than the "average" person, and being surrounded by like-minded people while at the gym helps perpetuate it. All of a sudden, her average husband at home is lazy, unmotivated, doesn't care about his appearance, etc. and unfortunately these people are a dime a dozen at the local gym. Boom, affair."

There is absolutely nothing wrong with staying physically healthy and working out to keep the body that way.

It is an essential to having a good life IMO.

However, I agree about the obsessive nature of it in this country.

I wish people would just put HALF the amount of energy they devote to improving their bodies into improving their MINDS.

I know people who will spend 3 hours a day in the gym, but wouldn't pick up a QUALITY book (ie anything that's not pulp/escapist fiction) if their life depended on it.

They can opine for hours on the proper regimen/schedule for building muscle mass or the best diet for lasting weight loss...but try to discuss anything of substance, including ethical/moral behavior or the proper balance between individualism and our duties towards others, and their f***ing eyes glaze over.

They build a perfect physical mechanism for life, and then develop almost none of the mental wherewithal to make it worth living.

Often makes me wonder what their lives will be like after time and nature inevitably take away the object of their obsession...what will they be left with then, ESPECIALLY if they have burned all their social/family bridges like OP's WW seems to be doing?


----------



## Q tip

alexm said:


> Ugh, the exercise junkie. Nothing wrong with you folks that are gym rats...
> 
> I mean no disrespect to you gym rats and exercise freaks. It's a tremendous amount of work and dedication. But it's an obsession, and it's never good when one partner goes that direction without the other. Never ends well.


Agree. I see it where I workout. Not many, but they are there. Me? We go together and have a great time. If you think about it, it's cheap and fun. And we both are looking pretty good. We help each other out and motivate each other. 

Agree, too much of anything (except love) is usually not that healthy.


----------



## alexm

Q tip said:


> Agree. I see it where I workout. Not many, but they are there. Me? We go together and have a great time. If you think about it, it's cheap and fun. And we both are looking pretty good. We help each other out and motivate each other.
> 
> Agree, too much of anything (except love) is usually not that healthy.


Totally. Obsessions of any kind are not healthy, and yes, I am biased towards the gym rat mentality, because it's ultimately what did me in in regards to my ex wife! I hated what she became and how she treated me (and others) in the process.

But in my defense, I was never a big fan of that type of person to begin with. And by "that type", I mean the person who has made it their entire life and judges their own, and other's, worth based on how buff or fit you are.

Health and fitness are necessary, and working out, running, etc. obviously has major benefits, but when it defines you, and makes you define others using those, and only those, terms, well... not good.

The way I see it is that it's not a huge accomplishment anyway. Provided one isn't physically handicapped in any way (and even then), anybody who is capable can hit the gym, build muscle, and get fit. Sure it takes mental strength and motivation, but that alone does not make you a better person. I'd rather see that kind of motivation be used to benefit others, rather than just oneself.

Personally, I find it boring. I've had a gym membership before, a personal trainer, and the motivation to go. But I got no enjoyment out of it, even when I started to see results. I also tried my hand at running, and even with my headphones on and the music blaring... boooooring. For me, there are better, more interesting (and also more fulfilling) things I'd rather be doing. My body is important to me, health-wise, but I've never been concerned with achieving a total body transformation for my own personal gain.

It's a major trade off of mental health for physical.


----------



## Marduk

mahike said:


> A lot of emotions are churning right now. Thorburn is right about the rest and eating. This is going to be a tough time for you. You took a positive step opening up a new bank account
> 
> Someone mentioned the fog and simply put it is the delusional state your wife is living in. Rainbows and Unicorns.
> 
> 1. Expose this A to her family and yours. Do not worry about saving face. This is to give your wife more to deal with and it is based in reality and not fantasy. A bucket of cold water on her dreams.
> 
> 2. Go get checked for STD's no matter what she tells you, she is first a liar and a cheat. Tell your doctor why you need this done and get a check up. You need to watch your health.
> 
> 3. File for D. No matter if you want a D or not file. This is an emotional slap to the face for your wife. She needs to know you are in charge and no more BS
> 
> 4. Tell her to get out there is the door.
> 
> 5. Start the 180 and only talk with her about the kids and nothing else right now.


Yup, do this. Good advice.

I dodged the "suddenly working out all the time" bullet myself.

Big red flag, that one is.


----------



## 845dad

marduk said:


> Yup, do this. Good advice.
> 
> I dodged the "suddenly working out all the time" bullet myself.
> 
> Big red flag, that one is.[/QUOT
> 
> real dumb question how does one go about filing for divorce?
> 
> i have begun telling family members details and can not wait to unload some bomshells at our first counseling
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hicks

Talk to a lawyer ASAP.
You want primary custody, per my previous post. You can use her affair to attain this.


----------



## Chaparral

Lawyer & Attorney Ratings : Find Rated Lawyers & Attorneys at Super Lawyers Check this website out and let us know if it helps, it was recommended here sometime back. Good luck


----------



## Chaparral

If you want to try and do it yourself, look on line for your states divorce packet. You can probably divorce without an attorney but one should at least look at your agreement to make sure you haven't shafted your self. If you cant download the packet, you should be able to pick one up at your county courthouse.

What state do you live in?

No kids, right?


----------



## happyman64

845

My area code as well.

Sorry to see you and your family going through this.

Your wife has very serious issues and needs professional help.

Sadly, she is most likely going to have to crash, burn and be divorced before she ever comes to the realization she needs help.

Keep posting. Take care of yourself and the kids as best you can.

Glad you secured your finances.

Now get a good attorney to help sort out matters so your family is protected.

Let your wife know just how serious you are.

be strong.

HM


----------



## Machiavelli

alexm said:


> Ugh, the exercise junkie. Nothing wrong with you folks that are gym rats, but it's rarely a good thing when a spouse suddenly becomes one out of the blue like that.
> 
> The culture behind it is not for everybody, and it ALWAYS changes you. As soon as you start losing weight/gaining muscle, whatever it is that's your goal, your entire personality changes, and that's never good for a marriage.


A lot of people do get caught up in the "gym scene", and that brings its own set of problems as we see here every week with the endless trainer-client adultery stories, but improving one's physical body (notice I didn't use the word "physique" because we now know exercise brings improvements far beyond the mere external physique) by any method can put enormous pressure on the marriage. This is especially true if the wife is doing the improving and she was an ugly duckling or a fatty when the marriage began and the improvement unveiled a hidden 7-9 was hiding under the lard the whole time. This is why around 80% of the women who have gastric bypass surgery are divorced in 2 years. It's not necessary for these women to ever step inside a gym. The pressure comes from suddenly getting hit on by the kind of guys these women were previously invisible to, but that they always fantasized about. The Pareto Principal indicates that 80% of the women should be attracted to 20% of the men. Suddenly, the woman who settled for a guy in the 80% is drawing attention from the 20% she wanted but couldn't get. That is the real root problem, whether the change came from the gym, Atkins, or the operating room.

BUT, if 80% of women with gastric bypass can't resist the urge to adulterate and trade up, you've got to really wonder how much higher is the hypergamy percentage for women who successfully do it the hard way.



alexm said:


> The culture behind it all is that they're now better than the "average" person, and being surrounded by like-minded people while at the gym helps perpetuate it. All of a sudden, her average husband at home is lazy, unmotivated, doesn't care about his appearance, etc. and unfortunately these people are a dime a dozen at the local gym. Boom, affair.


But, it's the truth isn't it? This is much as what happens when a person quits smoking or cuts grain out of the diet. The change to how the person is feeling is so great and such an improvement, they can't understand why everyone isn't getting it together. Of course, while they're thinking about how dumb the masses are, they forget about the last 40 years they spent sitting on their ass eating pancakes.



alexm said:


> You see this quite often here. One spouse decides to get in shape, and it snowballs. Before you know it, they don't want to be seen in public with you, because they're slim, toned and hot, and you're just an average schlub.


That's just Mother Nature. And you can't fool Mother Nature.



alexm said:


> Problem is, you can't talk them out of it, and if you don't join them, you're screwed. Happened to me. My ex wife used to think I was sexy and attractive. I'm a very average build, even naturally muscular. She started by walking, then running, then exercise machines at home, lifting weights, gym membership, the whole nine. A couple of hours a day.


Of course, only about 45-60 minutes exercise per week is really necessary to achieve the health benefits of exercise and have a phenomenal non-AAS physique. The rest of that time she's "socializing" with potential APs.



alexm said:


> Then came the comments about how I should eat better, exercise more, start running - but NEVER that I should join her at the gym... hmmm... Guess she wanted me to slim down first, so she wouldn't be embarrassed bringing her average husband to the gym with her. That was probably also HER domain, where she could get hit on and complimented by the local rats so she could feel good about herself. Gyms can be very sexual places.


Can be? At least everybody isn't naked like in the ancient Roman gym-bath complexes. Of course, everybody looked a lot better back then.



alexm said:


> I mean no disrespect to you gym rats and exercise freaks. It's a tremendous amount of work and dedication.


Only if you're doing it wrong. Of course, your wife was doing a lot more flirting than weightlifting.



alexm said:


> But it's an obsession, and it's never good when one partner goes that direction without the other. Never ends well.


As I pointed out above, the gym is just one avenue a woman can go down to up her sex rank. The end place is the same if the male ends up lower ranking than the female, no matter the route.


----------



## Machiavelli

845dad said:


> Going to see a conselor tuesday but from what I have seen so far she is an unbelievably selfish sociopath. Not one ounce of regret or remorse shown.


Probably not a sociopath. She's just addicted to the crack-like high of dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, et al, that is what keeps women in affair sex, even after they get guilty. Of course, all that sex-dope makes any guilt fade pretty quick and they just chase the high. You got between your wife and her drug of choice. That's all.


----------



## turnera

My stbx-SIL did the working out routine. Got a personal trainer, right around the time her junior high school, first love boyfriend contacted her on FB...


----------



## Machiavelli

turnera said:


> My stbx-SIL did the working out routine. Got a personal trainer, right around the time her junior high school, first love boyfriend contacted her on FB...


I decided back about 1995 that women who were starting shaping up had already made a decision to leave. That's how common it is. Nowadays, I think some women have, others have unconsciously decided, and still others just get blindsided by all the high ranking male attention they never got before and can't handle it.


----------



## EleGirl

845dad said:


> real dumb question how does one go about filing for divorce?


I thought that you had an attorney. 

Your wife has already filed for divorce. When are you are served with the divorce papers you get your attorney to respond or you represent yourself. 

If you file a separate divorce, yours will be combined with hers. Generally the first one filed is the one that is used. 

You can have your attorney pull the divorce she filed. Or you can just sit around and wait for her to serve you.



845dad said:


> i have begun telling family members details and can not wait to unload some bomshells at our first counseling


Since you are getting a divorce, what is the goal of this counseling?


----------



## whatslovegottodowithit?

Verizon...
-Log in using her phone number on a computer, NOT a mobile device. If it's your account (primary line) you can reset or request a password...it will go to email on file so maybe change it if needed.
-Once in, hover over the top tabs (tab name escapes me now) and select "send a message" ** My Verizon-->My Messaging-->Send a Message**
-A pane will show up that lists all #'s txt'd (or contact names if she created them.
-Select a name to see ALL txts sent and rcv'd verbatim.

In this message view, there is also a way to see all pics and vids shared. I apologize but I'm at work and can't get to a cpu to verify exactly how to find the pic/text exchange between contact functions. **select a contact in the left pane then, in the right pane top left, click the square comprised of 9 little squares* * Also, I'm not sure how many months of messages are stored this way. **Also, in the top right of the right pane, there are icons that let one print and export conversations**

On the main screen once you first login, you can click on an option on the left called "manage contacts". ** Manage My Device (click down arrow to expand a list of options)-->Manage Contacts** Here you can see all contacts and the date when added. Further, you can now see all her media (pics) that the phone backed-up. **by selecting the "Media" tab on the left**

If I think of anything else with VZW, I'll post back if you're still here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 845dad

Tonight we have our first counseling session. How do these typically go. Do I confront her and let her know all the BS she has been up to or do I play it cool and try to see where she wants to go with this. Oh things have been a mixed bag here, the weekend went very well here no fights very civil but it looks like she removed the ezpass from the car so I can't see what she is up to. looks like its time for a gps tracker


----------



## Chaparral

And a var in the car is the most important thing you can do to get immediate feedback. Get the sony model at best buy, walmart etc. Get lithium batteries and test drive it yourself. Get heavy duty velcro and stick it under the front seat.

Even if she doesn't call om, her talking to other people should give you a heads up about what she is up to.


----------



## Hicks

Counseling doesnt' go well with cheaters. They lie their way through it so they can continue to have free babysistting and access to money.


----------



## 845dad

I don't think she is talking to anyone...at least not on her phone. I have contacted most of her family about her shenanigans and to let them know I am trying to maintain our marriage but the lying has to stop.


----------



## Chaparral

Burner phones are the cheaters choice. What about her friends? Have you checked the phone bill.

Also they download apps to hide text messages.

Someone said you can pick up gps at radio shack.


----------



## turnera

Show the counselor the proof you have, and tell the counselor that you can only give your wife ONE chance to keep you in her life - to be honest. Then sit back and shut up.


----------



## mahike

The 800 lb Gorilla in the room needs to be addressed. I would just tell the MC that you are here do to your wife's cheating and lying and sit back and see what your WW will say.

Good Luck tonight and get a GPS on that car asap


----------



## GusPolinski

While a GPS is a good idea, if your wife uses a smartphone, you can monitor that as well...

iCloud - Find my iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, or Mac

Android Device Manager

To be clear, I'm not saying that you _shouldn't_ GPS her vehicle. Maybe do both. For example, you may find that her vehicle is habitually in one location while her phone is in an entirely different location.

Also, if your wife happens to drive a newer GM product, her vehicle essentially already has a GPS built into it via OnStar. From what I've read, though, there are other products (eZoom, Zoombak, etc) that offer better features and options w/ regard to automated monitoring, reporting, etc.


----------



## turnera

Don't forget a VAR velcroed under her driver's seat.


----------



## Machiavelli

turnera said:


> Don't forget a VAR velcroed under her driver's seat.


:iagree:

That's where they always get nailed, eventually.


----------



## tom67

845 just curious as to how her family reacted with the news.
And like others have said find out what you are up against and velcro a var in her car.
I would be as honest and forthright tonight.
Let the truth be known.


----------



## happyman64

845

So how did the session go today?

HM


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> 845
> 
> So how did the session go today?
> 
> HM


845 everything alright?


----------



## 845dad

every thing went ok. ask about the the missing two hour block just got accusations of trust issues...i wonder why. tried to express what we are feeling but its hard for me to express the pain of finding out my wife has been sneeking out.the weird thing is we seem to get along as friends but as soon as we talk about anythingabout trust of feelings she shuts down or starts accusing...goinGB to counselling again monday
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

There's only one thing that matters at this point - your unwillingness to let her get away with it. She can choose to not cooperate - you will choose to then move on. Her choice.


----------



## bandit.45

I think you are wasting your money. Spend that money on a nasty shark lawyer. If she is in an affair marriage counseling is a worthless waste of time.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

845dad said:


> to get along as friends but as soon as we talk about anythingabout trust of feelings she shuts down or starts accusing...


Yes, because you have been moved to the guy friend one. YOU know, the area where her romantic life and doings are off limits.


----------



## GusPolinski

845dad said:


> every thing went ok. *ask about the the missing two hour block just got accusations of trust issues*...i wonder why. tried to express what we are feeling but its hard for me to express the pain of finding out my wife has been sneeking out.the weird thing is we seem to get along as friends but *as soon as we talk about anythingabout trust of feelings she shuts down or starts accusing...goinGB to counselling again monday*


Blame-shifting and deflection... classic cheater moves.

You need to get your suspicions regarding a possible affair out in the open. No more double-talk, innuendo, or dancing around. Tell her to her face, w/ the MC present, that you think she's cheating, and this, this, and this are the reasons why. Don't let her blame-shift or deflect on something like a block of time that is unaccounted if she's unable or unwilling to account for it.

Tell you what, type out a list of talking points into a letter. Anytime the conversation starts to stray, look at your list to get yourself back on track.

Where are you with a VAR? GPS? Keylogger software?


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Blame-shifting and deflection... classic cheater moves.
> 
> You need to get your suspicions regarding a possible affair out in the open. No more double-talk, innuendo, or dancing around. Tell her to her face, w/ the MC present, that you think she's cheating, and this, this, and this are the reasons why. Don't let her blame-shift or deflect on something like a block of time that is unaccounted if she's unable or unwilling to account for it.
> 
> Tell you what, type out a list of taking points into a letter. Anytime the conversation starts to stray, look at your list to get yourself back on track.
> 
> Where are you with a VAR? GPS? Keylogger software?


:iagree:
And for now shutup about the relationship it makes you look weak.
Be very cold and to the point.


----------



## Machiavelli

845, what's your preference? Do you want to bring her back into the family or do you want to divorce? I personally do not put much stock in MC either way, when adultery is the issue.


----------



## OnTheRocks

Keep your mouth shut in general. 

Asking her about your relationship makes you look weak and unattractive. Ask me how I know. 

Don't ask about unaccounted for time blocks etc - you are getting her radar up and it'll make it much harder to find the truth.


----------



## badmemory

Machiavelli said:


> 845, what's your preference? Do you want to bring her back into the family or do you want to divorce? I personally do not put much stock in MC either way, when adultery is the issue.


I agree. 

You have ample evidence that your wife is cheating. You can resolve that with her yourself. All that will likely happen is the MC will sit and listen to your accusations and her denials and collect his 150 bucks. Until she comes clean and then demonstrates remorse, there's nothing he can do for you. It's a waste of money.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

Always good stuff from you...



Machiavelli said:


> Probably not a sociopath. She's just addicted to the crack-like high of dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, et al, that is what keeps women in affair sex, even after they get guilty. Of course, all that sex-dope makes any guilt fade pretty quick and they just chase the high. You got between your wife and her drug of choice. That's all.


I agree. "Feelings" are how we understand our relationship to our environment; our actions work to create, sustain or destroy the basis for a feeling. If you come out to your car on fire, your brain responds by releasing neurochemicals that make you "feel" panic, anger, fear, and thereby motivates you to do anything possible to extinguish the fire.

OP, any action you do to prevent your wife from engaging in the affair will thereby limit her access to the high "feelings" she is currently experiencing; as happiness is how we determine a positive relationship to our environment, you will automatically be WRONG to her (because you threaten her happiness). You will have to give her time to come off that neurochemical high, and at that point she will be able to "feel" the wrong she has done to you.



Machiavelli said:


> I decided back about 1995 that women who were starting shaping up had already made a decision to leave. That's how common it is. Nowadays, I think some women have, others have unconsciously decided, and still others just get blindsided by all the high ranking male attention they never got before and can't handle it.


I agree.

It also seems to be very common that a personal trainer becomes the affair partner. I have always believed that women are attracted to a man most able to effect a positive relationship to her environment; as her body changes for the better (and she "feels" the change), she associates it with the personal trainer. Bam. Affair begins.

And yeah, Ive seen a few women lose their minds after hitting the gym and losing a ton of weight; they inevitably do some wild things before they relearn their boundaries.


----------



## 845dad

vironIment; our actions work to create, sustain or destroy the basis her little fantasy world is anout to come crashing down..summer break is here and will not have any time for her nonsense. i am not going to go out of my way to fee her up at all...sorry..now I'm going to the gym too so my time is now occupied also...oh and get thisshe actuallysaid shefeels her purpose in life is strong woman competitOn...what the F is wrong her...well at leastshe hadn'tspoken or gone back to that gym i know w she hasn't seen


I agree.

It also seems to be very common that a personal trainer becomes the affair partner. I have always believed that women are attracted to a man most able to effect a positive relationship to her environment; as her body changes for the better (and she "feels" the change), she associates it with the personal trainer. Bam. Affair begins.

And yeah, Ive seen a few women lose their minds after hitting the gym and losing a ton of weight; they inevitably do some wild things before they relearn their boundaries.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

She feels it's her purpose because it is the ONE thing in her life that gives her warm fuzzies. Why are YOU not giving her warm fuzzies?


----------



## 845dad

agoHer only answer to all this is..Im not happy..i havent been in a long time...how can I justdon'tgetit..stuff she mentioned in councelling happened literally twenty years ago. I really think she has lost her mind
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

845dad said:


> agoHer only answer to all this is..Im not happy..i havent been in a long time...how can I justdon'tgetit..stuff she mentioned in councelling happened literally twenty years ago. I really think she has lost her mind


Blame-shifting, deflection, and gas-lighting -- in this case, all synonyms for *lying*.


----------



## happyman64

845dad said:


> agoHer only answer to all this is..Im not happy..i havent been in a long time...how can I justdon'tgetit..stuff she mentioned in councelling happened literally twenty years ago. I really think she has lost her mind
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is rewriting history so she can justify her current behavior.

Very common.


----------



## 3putt

845dad said:


> agoHer only answer to all this is..Im not happy..i havent been in a long time...how can I justdon'tgetit..stuff she mentioned in councelling happened literally twenty years ago. I really think she has lost her mind
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





happyman64 said:


> She is rewriting history so she can justify her current behavior.
> 
> Very common.


Yep, if she has go that far back to find something/anything to complain about to justify her actions, then the present couldn't have been all that bad.


----------



## walkonmars

3putt said:


> Yep, if she has go that far back to find something/anything to complain about and justify her actions, then the present couldn't have been all that bad.


She was trying to avoid the real deal-beaker. I'm sure he left the toilet seat up several times during their marriage. She's just not crass enough to mention it ..... YET.


----------



## 3putt

walkonmars said:


> She was trying to avoid the real deal-beaker. I'm sure he left the toilet seat up several times during their marriage. She's just not crass enough to mention it ..... YET.


Oh Lord, she has _that_ in her arsenal??

You're screwed 845.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to start thinking about what a good relationship with a good woman would be like instead of a cheating, workout fanatic would be like. Her family and particularly you score pretty low on her priority list.

Sounds like she's on steroids anyway. Roid rage.


----------



## 845dad

So long story short, her brothers daughter is in the hospital in an induced coma and she talks to her brother. I call the brothers wife and talk to her.. Same story...not happy..not happy for a long timeblah nlah nlah..This is making me angrier than the EA or even if it was P A. Im not happy...get over yourself...in 14 years of marriage she has worked full time less than three years...has a nice house a husband who doesnt cheat doesnt drink doesnt beat her devotes himself to her and the family...just getting angrier and angier...how would one go about telling his wife she needs focking help and probably meds because her little fantasy im unhappy drwamworld is starting to piss meoff
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rrrbbbttt

She has entered her "Zone" nothing you will do at this time will reach her because she does not want it to. 

MC is a waste of time and money because she does not want to build/fix her relationship with you.


Do the 180
Only deal with her about the children and business
Get VARs and put them in places to build the info you need.
Keep her under investigation
Separate your finances

Take care of yourself and your children.

She has checked out of the marriage and she sees you as a Pain in the A** that she has to deal with.

Sorry you are here and have to deal with this situation.


----------



## Chaparral

rrrbbbttt said:


> She has entered her "Zone" nothing you will do at this time will reach her because she does not want it to.
> 
> MC is a waste of time and money because she does not want to build/fix her relationship with you.
> 
> 
> Do the 180
> Only deal with her about the children and business
> Get VARs and put them in places to build the info you need.
> Keep her under investigation
> Separate your finances
> 
> Take care of yourself and your children.
> 
> She has checked out of the marriage and she sees you as a Pain in the A** that she has to deal with.
> 
> Sorry you are here and have to deal with this situation.


And get the mmslp book linked to below. Read the reviews at least. It can be downloaded at amazon.com too.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, that's called blameshifting. I expect she is telling everyone this story to make you look like the bad guy. That's why you expose to family about the affair. People tend to believe the first lie unfortunately. She thinks its all going to hit the fan.

Var the car and the house, you will get your proof.


----------



## 845dad

at this point i dont think she is talking to anyone...I think she she needs a big dose of reallity..i think i am going to go on a vacation for a wek or so...i can do something fun and she can watch.the kids nonstop...win win
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper

845dad said:


> at this point i dont think she is talking to anyone...I think she she needs a big dose of reallity..i think i am going to go on a vacation for a wek or so...i can do something fun and she can watch.the kids nonstop...win win
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


File for divorce, then go away for a week. You will be dealing with a new person when you get back. Then you can see if anything is worth saving.

Dealing with these jokers while they are in the supposed "fog" is ridiculous. You can end up wasting months or years because of it. Drop the reality bomb and save yourself some time, money, and heartache.


----------



## 845dad

I am very tempted to do that but i have the feeling she wants that because then she can tell people it was me...blame me..tell the kids etc..i think doing the 180 and going out and enjoying myself would be the best right now...that and getting her on meds
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

845dad said:


> I am very tempted to do that but i have the feeling she wants that because then she can tell people it was me...blame me..tell the kids etc..i think doing the 180 and going out and enjoying myself would be the best right now...that and getting her on meds
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's already planning on doing it to you, which is why she's telling her bro and SIL all about her bogus unhappiness. And she's still in the affair and there may be more than one guy. Did you find her stash yet? Did you put the VAR in her car yet? How about the GPS?

File for divorce, for cause (adultery) if that's available. You can always stop it if she comes around. Otherwise, you'll be the one getting served.


----------



## tom67

Machiavelli said:


> She's already planning on doing it to you, which is why she's telling her bro and SIL all about her bogus unhappiness. And she's still in the affair and there may be more than one guy. Did you find her stash yet? Did you put the VAR in her car yet? How about the GPS?
> 
> File for divorce, for cause (adultery) if that's available. You can always stop it if she comes around. Otherwise, you'll be the one getting served.


I highly suggest you do all of the above before any vacation and keep all your evidence out of the house.
The quicker you act the better chance you have of knocking her back into reality imo.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

845dad said:


> I am very tempted to do that but i have the feeling she wants that because then she can tell people it was me...blame me..tell the kids etc..i think doing the 180 and going out and enjoying myself would be the best right now...that and getting her on meds
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay, if you don't want to try that say no. Don't make up excuses that make zero sense. Your current reason is flawed. It is okay to be scared and try the safe route. It is okay not wanting to go the divorce route. 


> So long story short, her brothers daughter is in the hospital in an induced coma and she talks to her brother. I call the brothers wife and talk to her.. Same story...not happy..not happy for a long timeblah nlah nlah..This is making me angrier than the EA or even if it was P A.


You just said you don't want to file because you'll be made the bad guy and she'll blame you. Yet, you just typed, she is already making you the bad guy and blaming you to at least two people.

It's crazy to fear something that has already happened. Her brother told his wife, do you honestly believe it just stayed in their household?


----------



## 845dad

i totally get what your saying but i have 14 years of marriage and three kids to think about also...i couldnt care less about me..its the kids i worry about... if the next meeting goes to crap i am going to ask for her terms for separation ..she is so in the fog right now that i am pretty sure she just wants escape..i work 12 hour shifts so i will ask for 50/50 custody so i can keep the house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rrrbbbttt

You need to take a deep breath and think, yes you have 3 children to worry about but you also have to put yourself in the proper position to care for the 3 children

Machiavella is correct.

Unless you take positive action you are putting yourself and your ability to care for the 3 children at risk.

She will be able to chip away at what you have accomplished and they you will be in a scramble to keep what she has not taken and will be able to get.

The longer you wait the worse it will get.


----------



## tom67

rrrbbbttt said:


> You need to take a deep breath and think, yes you have 3 children to worry about but you also have to put yourself in the proper position to care for the 3 children
> 
> Machiavella is correct.
> 
> Unless you take positive action you are putting yourself and your ability to care for the 3 children at risk.
> 
> She will be able to chip away at what you have accomplished and they you will be in a scramble to keep what she has not taken and will be able to get.
> 
> The longer you wait the worse it will get.


Filing does not mean instant divorce it will take months and you can withdraw it any time before.


----------



## Machiavelli

845dad said:


> i totally get what your saying but i have 14 years of marriage and three kids to think about also...i couldnt care less about me..its the kids i worry about... if the next meeting goes to crap i am going to ask for her terms for separation ..she is so in the fog right now that i am pretty sure she just wants escape..i work 12 hour shifts so i will ask for 50/50 custody so i can keep the house.


Do not hesitate. Rapid action takes the high ground. You want to seize the initiative, not have to fight uphill after she has dug in and served you papers. If you want to save the village, you must be willing to burn the village. this also applies to your marriage. Your best chance to save it is to file on her a$$.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

845dad said:


> i totally get what your saying but i have 14 years of marriage and three kids to think about also...i couldnt care less about me..its the kids i worry about... if the next meeting goes to crap i am going to ask for her terms for separation ..she is so in the fog right now that i am pretty sure she just wants escape..i work 12 hour shifts so i will ask for 50/50 custody so i can keep the house.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We all worry about the kids for the most part. I'm going by what you mentioned in your post. You didn't mention kids or 14 years in the post, you said you were worried about blame shifting. I just pointed out it was a poor excuse because it has already happened.


----------



## OnTheRocks

She is already gone, and is now your enemy. Listen to us. BTDT.


----------



## Chaparral

Your responses make it look like you are not reading any of he other, older threads. What you are saying is just a rerun of other failed attempts described in other threads.

The successful guys jump on this sh!t with both feet.

In any event the odds of saving a marriage when the wife cheats are only about 1 in 5 so prepare for the worse.

Your main job now is to verify the affair is over, unlikely, and believe nothing she tells you without absolute proof.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, a var in her car will tell you who she is talking to and what she is up to unless she is the only woman in the US that doesn't talk on her phone in the car.


----------



## LongWalk

Listen to Mach. Your dithering is going make things worse for your children. File for divorce. Make the terms as favorable to you as possible. This will wrong foot her and maybe get her to see you as a decisive man.

Filing for divorce might save your marriage.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Suspecting2014

Fill for divorce, do 180 and get IC.
You will need to be strong to get into R and make it work.


----------



## staystrong

Chaparral said:


> Your responses make it look like you are not reading any of he other, older threads. What you are saying is just a rerun of other failed attempts described in other threads.
> 
> The successful guys jump on this sh!t with both feet.
> 
> *In any event the odds of saving a marriage when the wife cheats are only about 1 in 5 so prepare for the worse.*
> 
> Your main job now is to verify the affair is over, unlikely, and believe nothing she tells you without absolute proof.


Is it even that high? TAM odds seem to be more like 1 in 20.


----------



## OnTheRocks

One and done here, eh?


----------



## 845dad

So let me keep you up to date with my life. She says the only reason she is going to therapy is because she is trying to make it easier on me and that she is "checked out". In the mean time I found out she closed out a 401k and saw a lawyer. My appointment with my lawyer is Monday. Do I let her know or do I do it on the sly? Some of the things she says are so confusing...she plans on after separating to move into a one bedroom apt...we have three kids and she says that another reason is because she just isn't ready for a physical relationship..that it's just fair to me..sorry for the ranting I am working mids and kind of out of it. I have also started the 180 getting in shape doing stuff for myself, Not ignoring her but keeping our conversations only about the kids and keeping answers ans conversations to a minimum. I really think she has lost her mind or at least her hold on reality.

On a positive note since she is no longer allowed to go to her boy toy's gym I have seen my kids and done tons more stuff with them


----------



## 845dad

So let me keep you up to date with my life. She says the only reason she is going to therapy is because she is trying to make it easier on me and that she is "checked out". In the mean time I found out she closed out a 401k and saw a lawyer. My appointment with my lawyer is Monday. Do I let her know or do I do it on the sly? Some of the things she says are so confusing...she plans on after separating to move into a one bedroom apt...we have three kids and she says that another reason is because she just isn't ready for a physical relationship..that it's just fair to me..sorry for the ranting I am working mids and kind of out of it. I have also started the 180 getting in shape doing stuff for myself, Not ignoring her but keeping our conversations only about the kids and keeping answers ans conversations to a minimum. I really think she has lost her mind or at least her hold on reality.

On a positive note since she is no longer allowed to go to her boy toy's gym I have seen my kids and done tons more stuff with them


----------



## clipclop2

What do you mean closed out a 401k? Half of the value obtained during the marriage is yours. The judge is not going to look kindly upon her.


----------



## honcho

Inform the attorney about the 401k withdrawal. In most divorce the courts and attorneys want statements for prior two years I think so even if she cleared out the acct the system still figures that money back in. 

She wants to get her own place now is because she doesn’t have the gym to meet the boytoy at any longer.


----------



## Machiavelli

845dad said:


> So let me keep you up to date with my life. She says the only reason she is going to therapy is because she is trying to make it easier on me and that she is "checked out". In the mean time I found out she closed out a 401k and saw a lawyer. My appointment with my lawyer is Monday. Do I let her know or do I do it on the sly?


If Naval Intelligence told you the Japanese Fleet was on it's way to bomb your Pacific Fleet in Pearl Harbor, would you call up Hirohito and tell him all about it? No, you'd send out your subs to scuttle his carriers before they got in striking range.

From here on out, its war. Give her the D papers first. The battle goes to whoever gets there firstest with the mostest. And don't reveal your battle plan or your intel network. Think!




845dad said:


> Some of the things she says are so confusing...she plans on after separating to move into a one bedroom apt...we have three kids and she says that another reason is because she just isn't ready for a physical relationship..that it's just fair to me..sorry for the ranting I am working mids and kind of out of it. I have also started the 180 getting in shape doing stuff for myself, Not ignoring her but keeping our conversations only about the kids and keeping answers ans conversations to a minimum. I really think she has lost her mind or at least her hold on reality.


She's hooked on strange sex dopamine. She's basically not in her right mind.


----------



## LongWalk

In her right mind for the selfish gene.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## 845dad

What I really don't understand is the fact we have been talking more and getting along. I doubt we fight even once a week. I always pictured divorce as being the last step when nothing else is working. How do I go about becoming primary or dual primary, all I want is for my children to have a happy normal life and I really don't think living with my wife is at all the best thing for them. It seems she is looking to escape everything either by going to the gym all the time or by going to work all the time. Our youngest is 4 now and turns 5 in October and she is dead set on getting her into kindergarten. She is bright as hell but why would you want to take away a year or her childhood like that. She may be the most selfish person on the face of the earth yet she feels she is the greatest mom ever. She actually thinks divorce is a good thing and that everyone walks away happy...totally delusional. How to do wake someone up from this kind of dreamworlds. We went to my parents last weekend and she felt blindsided because my parents knew about what was going on...she was surprised they knew...she has not talked to anyone in her family and is like this stupid little island that needs nohelp or counseling because they have made up there mind and that's the way it has to be


----------



## tom67

File asap then have your lawyer motion up for a psych evaluation her lawyer will ask the same of course.
You may again may just get primary custody.
It's worth a shot.
Forget about any counseling with her save your money.


----------



## Suspecting2014

845dad said:


> What I really don't understand is the fact we have been talking more and getting along. I doubt we fight even once a week.


That’s why she is so confident about everything.
You really need to take 2 big steps:
Expose to her whole family, friends, etc.
Fill divorce
By doing these you are taking away her safe net so she will get a reality bite, she will realize that that her actions have consequences.



845dad said:


> She actually thinks divorce is a good thing and that everyone walks away happy...totally delusional. How to do wake someone up from this kind of dreamworlds.


Filling divorce is an act of empowerment for you as well, by doing it you are taking her control away 



845dad said:


> We went to my parents last weekend and she felt blindsided because my parents knew about what was going on...she was surprised they knew...she has not talked to anyone in her family and is like this stupid little island that needs nohelp or counseling because they have made up there mind and that's the way it has to be


Tell everybody, so she will force to hear different opinions 

Well, do 180 hard, be prepared to lose her, it is the only way it will work...
Quit MC until she asks for it (maybe she won't) and begin IC
Consider that she is filling divorce anyway


----------



## honcho

You will need to discuss custody with an attorney as each and every state is different. Since she only wants to get a one bedroom apt maybe she doesn’t want to have the kids much, they do cramp the fun affair world fantasy life. WS all want to keep it a secret, they don’t want friends or family to know because that bring real life into the fantasy and that isn’t fun. 

This is why you expose it. She can tell you all she wants its not physical you really have no basis to believe her anymore. The OM wife contacted you once, talk to her again and get her take on things right now. Counseling is a waste of time right now as she has no intention of repairing the marriage. 

You already know she will file at some point and it could be tomorrow, it could be a month from now. They get the “bright idea” one day and just do it. You should file and start forcing her hand, waiting is the poorest choice as she will just set you up as the monster, get herself fiscally ready to bail which she is already doing. 

She may be in the “fog” but so are you right now so you better snap yourself out and see the situation for what it really is and start to act.


----------



## 845dad

I have already told most of her family. She talks to no one...in the month and a half since the big surprise she has talked to her brothers for 1/2 hour total. she is convinced i am bugging her have a keystroke logger all sorts on other nonsense. I have checked her odometer every few days check the phone usage ever week or so but i figure its not going to be me that catches her it will be the other wife. I just don't get it...I seriously wonder if she was doing roids or she just took post partem depression a few steps farther...I think she is in for a big shock if /when it ever gets to court staying at the gym with the kids till 10pm on a school night (gyms 45 minutes away so home at 11) I have bought/shopped for all the kids clothes since forever. I did all the grocery shopping up until maybe 2 years ago. Her idea of cleaning the house is organize the stacks of **** from one place to another. i can go on an on...It wasn't always this way it just creeps up on you till you realize that slowly but surely you are up to your nose in crap. sorry for venting its just hard realizing that what we had at one time is gone and is about to be replaced with having to fight to see that my kids come out of this the best they can.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Leave her!!!
Pronto


----------



## 845dad

again it comes down to the kids. I work 12 hour rotating shift work I work 7 mids and 7 12 hours days and 4 8 hour days in a five week rotation. one year i worked straight 8 hour days...in that year the kids were tardy like 30 times and the only reason it stopped was the facted she posted it on facebook and all her crossfir friends ridiculed her (The fact she thought it was funny even though i *****ed the whole time)


----------



## Suspecting2014

845dad said:


> again it comes down to the kids. I work 12 hour rotating shift work I work 7 mids and 7 12 hours days and 4 8 hour days in a five week rotation. one year i worked straight 8 hour days...in that year the kids were tardy like 30 times and the only reason it stopped was the facted she posted it on facebook and all her crossfir friends ridiculed her (The fact she thought it was funny even though i *****ed the whole time)


When my parents divorced, I and my brothers were like “whats took you so long?”

You must realize that your kids learn from you, learn to be sad, learn to be humiliated from a spouse, etc. You should take care of their feelings as well.

You owe your kids better

Other angle, if she gets a brand new apartment how do you think it is going to be different from you moving to other place??

Get the full pic

If you put on the table the filled divorce it doesn't mean you walk away, it only means you are proving to her that you are not going to bare her behavior anymore.

Sorry, but you should learn from other threads that the only effective way to get some reality to your wife is taking away your support (all of it)

Look, if you keep trying the same way she is going away, so what do you have to lose????

FILL DIVORCE and do 180, keep living together but by your choice and will


----------



## Suspecting2014

read this tread:

6 weeks after finding out really struggling(long)

Good luck


----------



## the guy

So your kids are truint, they live in crap.....and your doing what for the kids!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get this women out of your life.

Find a lawyer...


From were I'm sitting you could hire a nanny and get better care for your kids...


----------



## JustGrinding

845dad said:


> She says the only reason she is going to therapy is because she is trying to make it easier on me . . .


The part in bold: that’s your first problem right there. Her mouth only ejects the jumbled up BS in what passes for her mind right now. Her words are useless in giving you clues about what to do. 

Women are programmed to keep the peace in their social circles. The only way she is justified in ripping your life to shreds is if it’s for your own good.



845dad said:


> My appointment with my lawyer is Monday. Do I let her know or do I do it on the sly?


Though already well-covered by other posters, it’s worth reiteration: NEVER give your battle plan to the enemy!



845dad said:


> Some of the things she says are so confusing


.

Which is a reflection of her trying to justify that which can’t be justified. Trying to apply logic to a situation that is illogical will always be confusing.



845dad said:


> I really think she has lost her mind or at least her hold on reality.


This is the closest to the truth. Dealing with her thusly will be the most beneficial approach for you.



845dad said:


> What I really don't understand is the fact we have been talking more and getting along.


She’s made a decision, justified it in her fogged-out mind, and is at peace with it. This lowers her stress and it’s reflected in her behavior.

Incidentally, the more peaceful environment in the wake of her decision is further proof to her that she’s made the right choice.



845dad said:


> ...totally delusional. How to do wake someone up from this kind of dreamworlds.


You can’t. The best you can do is stay out of the way and let the consequences fall where they will. The closer you are when the Karma bus rolls into town, the more likely you (and your children!) are to be hit right along with her.



845dad said:


> is like this stupid little island that needs nohelp or counseling because they have made up there mind and that's the way it has to be


Right. It’s past time for you to step out of her way and let it be the way it has to be.


----------



## happyman64

845Dad

Get with your attorney and protect yourself and the your kids.

When money gets moved or cashed in without your approval that is a sign that she is making decisions based on what she thinks is best only for her.

So act now.

HM


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## Chaparral

Did she try to hide the 401k transfer?

Have you talked to posom's wife again? Are they trying to reconcile?


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## Hicks

Don't talk to her about anything without speaking to your attorney first. Tell your attorney you want to go for primary custody. To do this I would predict that you have to dedicate time while married to BEING the primary. This means you let her leave the house, live in an apartment while you take care of the kids, take them to doctors, take them to school, establish with the outside world that you are the primary and documenet everything. In NY whoever is the primary gets the CS and it is not prorated based on the amount of time spent.


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## intuitionoramiwrong

Considering she is getting a one bedroom apartment and you have 3 kids, kind of makes you the default primary care giver. They all sleeping in bed with her?? 

You don't fight because she sees you as a friend now. She doesn't want to fight with you. She wants all this to go smoothly. If she didn't mind confrontation or owning up to things, she'd have just told you she was checked out before she started banging the other guy. 

Talk to your lawyer, file the papers.


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## 845dad

Talk to your lawyer, seeing A Lawyer In An Hour...So Nervous I Want To vomit
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

Good Luck Today


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## Blossom Leigh

Know how it feels... All the best to you....


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## LongWalk

Good luck.

Your wife is addicted to endorphins from working out. She is used to pain in an orderly scheme. Divorce is going to destabilize her.

She is probably not going to cope now. But she is such a narcissist that your children must pay.

Was there a time she wanted you to notice her body?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## 845dad

LongWalk said:


> Good luck.
> 
> Your wife is addicted to endorphins from working out. She is used to pain in an orderly scheme. Divorce is going to destabilize her.
> 
> She is probably not going to cope now. But she is such a narcissist that your children must pay.
> 
> Was there a time she wanted you to notice her body?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski




----------



## 845dad

quick update on my situation...so over her ****..got served ..filed against her also. The longer I deal with her the more I know she is bat****. She is still living at home because"her lawyer hasn't told her to move out". trying to set up a four way meet with our lawyers soon.because her lawyer is not pursueing anything and quite frankly i am over this nonsense. Any thoughts on offering to pay a percentage of child costs..i mean all of it..i am going to offer to pay 75%..oh she is a nurse and making 30 an hour working 30 a week and i make 130k or so.


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## tom67

845dad said:


> quick update on my situation...so over her ****..got served ..filed against her also. The longer I deal with her the more I know she is bat****. She is still living at home because"her lawyer hasn't told her to move out". trying to set up a four way meet with our lawyers soon.because her lawyer is not pursueing anything and quite frankly i am over this nonsense. Any thoughts on offering to pay a percentage of child costs..i mean all of it..i am going to offer to pay 75%..oh she is a nurse and making 30 an hour working 30 a week and i make 130k or so.


If she doesn't take that gloves off.


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## happyman64

845dad

Is she still looking for that one bedroom apt?

Glad you are sick of her nonsense.

Give her what she wants.

Freedom.

Her own bills.

Half the time with her kids.

Living the single life.

I bet you and the kids will be happier in the long run.

HM


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## tom67

It's kind of sad if she is using steroids.
Problem is the heart is a muscle also and when she gets off them well like other muscles the heart shrinks and poof she gone.

I hope you start casually dating if nothing else to show her you have moved on.


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## Chaparral

Have you asked your lawyers to get a court order to have her drug tested?

The only person I know to have used steroids beat up his wife, high speed chase with police and shot himself. I have no doubts roid rage is real. I question her fitness to be around your kids.

You need junk yard dog lawyers. Have you checked out dadsdivorce.com?

Try sending a pm to juicer. He has a lot of experience with steroids.


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## Hicks

Google the guidelines. In NY you pay a percentage of income based on how many kids you have. You will have to pay her 29% of your income in C.S. Then they will also try to make you pay things like day care and health care separately on top of that.


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## Imstrong123

I'm sorry about your situation!!! The poor kids, already know everything? If they don't know about the affair, don't tell them, but do tell them that you and our wife need a time out, to be apart for a few weeks, to cool things off. Before having her served with Divorce papers, try just cooling things off, go away, be there for the children and make sure she does't take them with her to the Gym or anywhere, they should be home by 7 and in bed by 8:30...and tell her that if she doesn't do that, you will file for Divorce and ask for Full custody of the kids...so hopefully she does the right thing...and again, give her time, and space and let her miss you and see what she is doing to the family and her kids. That way she will be confronted with her selfishness and bad choices, and hopefully will come to her senses. If this doesn't work, then, talk to your kids, and serve her with Divorce papers, maybe that works, and again, it doesnt mean you will get a divorce, but maybe that's what it takes for her to go to therapy, to open up and work on your marriage and family as hard as she works out at the gym..how dare she thinks that working out, cheating and not taking care of her family is a priority in her life? she has three kids!!!! good luck!!


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## 845dad

*court update*

well just had our first court conference friday. We didn't get to actually see the judge but somethings have been either settled or the surfaced scratched. !st she agrees that i can have the kids at least 50 percent of the time...which is great. second her closing a 401k without telling me didn't go over so well..she is now responsible for all her own lawyer bills. 3rd and most importantly I asked my lawyer if he could do something about the sleeping arraigements..She had the kids sleeping next to her on the couch or an airmattress ...yeah totally nuts..well the judge thought that it was nuts too, the kids are all sleeping back in their rooms and have already seen an improvement in attitude and emotional behavior. oh and the judge thought it was nonsense that she is making 50k and refusing to pay common household common bills..well that is going to change...


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## LongWalk

Is she still CrossFitting like crazy?


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## 845dad

lol..since the day she was caught she was kicked out of the musclehead gym by the owners wife. I really think all contact stopped.. she still works out but nowhere like before maybe 6 hours a week vs 25...now shes addicted to working as much as she possibly can without getting childcare..just using me. I don't mind more time with the kids and shows the court who really has been a better parent.


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## Blossom Leigh

I swear these women are so lost.


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## 845dad

The more i deal with her the harder it is to figure her out..she's been nice lately..not her usual ***** self...that kind of worries me. the NY 29% kind of goes out the window if I get the kids for 50% of the time. I have have been nothing but nice and amicable this whole time...I know this is a long game and anger and fights will get me nowhere. If it comes down to it I have some SERIOUS aces up my sleeve. Can show that she was with the kids over and over at her musclehead gym till past 10pm on a school night. My neighbor is an asst principal at a school that is located in my county. He told me all about my judge being fair because he is always in the courts for kids from his school...well he has said he will testify for me if needed...that can't hurt. The 50 percent thing at court was I thought pretty unusual, 50 percent was offered by her and her lawyer at the get go...and my lawyer asked for at least 50%..they said yes in literally 1 second. Am I safe in assuming that this is a big deal? I thought that this is what is usually the big battle.


----------



## Hicks

845dad said:


> The more i deal with her the harder it is to figure her out..she's been nice lately..not her usual ***** self...that kind of worries me. the NY 29% kind of goes out the window if I get the kids for 50% of the time. I have have been nothing but nice and amicable this whole time...I know this is a long game and anger and fights will get me nowhere. If it comes down to it I have some SERIOUS aces up my sleeve. Can show that she was with the kids over and over at her musclehead gym till past 10pm on a school night. My neighbor is an asst principal at a school that is located in my county. He told me all about my judge being fair because he is always in the courts for kids from his school...well he has said he will testify for me if needed...that can't hurt. The 50 percent thing at court was I thought pretty unusual, 50 percent was offered by her and her lawyer at the get go...and my lawyer asked for at least 50%..they said yes in literally 1 second. Am I safe in assuming that this is a big deal? I thought that this is what is usually the big battle.


if you have 51% you are primary. If you have 50% the court decides who is primary. There is no proration in the formula for the amount of time spent with a parent. So you can get 50% custody, and the court makes her the "primary" and you are on the hook for the entire amount. You should do some googling of CS calculators.


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## 845dad

she agreed to me having more than 50% custody...i'll keep everyone up to date with events. Has anyone here ever dealt with the spouce where now she is trying to be supermom...cooking etc,,,,she actually went to parent teacher meetings this year...for the first time


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## GusPolinski

845dad said:


> she agreed to me having more than 50% custody...i'll keep everyone up to date with events. Has anyone here ever dealt with the spouce where now she is trying to be supermom...cooking etc,,,,she actually went to parent teacher meetings this year...for the first time


Regardless of her concessions regarding the kids, you can bet that she's following a scripted strategy that has been thought out and handed to her by her lawyer.


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## Hicks

She's trying to get the type of custody in which she will be awarded child support, rather than you.


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## Yeswecan

GusPolinski said:


> Regardless of her concessions regarding the kids, you can bet that she's following a scripted strategy that has been thought out and handed to her by her lawyer.


:iagree:


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## Blossom Leigh

This is where intent matters for sure...

Not all "correct" or "good" behavior by appearance is to be rewarded if the intent behind it is to manipulate for personal gain.


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## 845dad

well we had out 2nd lawyer meet up at the courthouse last week....lets just say she is quite angry. The Judge told her she needs to get a pull time job..that did not make the princess very happy. She agreed to a custody agreement that I had put forth. I proposed that i have the kids 19 of 35 days or nights as that is how the courts view it. She agreed to this schedule, and then proceeded to ague about expenses. She was ordered to pay 25% of the household expenses but hasn't paid a penny. I'm pretty sure that will come back to bite her soon or later. She argued about having to pay 25% of my food costs while at work...I said "let me get this straight ..we are paying 800 an hour for lawyers and you are argueing the price of milk?...total nutjob... she is still living in the house...what a nightmare, wouldn't wish this on anyone. I wish I could post pictures of the dishes she creates on a daily basis ..I'm not sure if she is doing this on purpose or if its unconcious...but they are epic the nect court date is April 3...Already in the process of refinancing the house in order to pay her her half of the equity minus the debt. Oh I almost forgot to mention she still thinks she is going to get 28% of my gross, I enjoyed informing her that because I will have the kids as much as I do that the 28% is out the window.


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## LongWalk

Has she quit training?

Is she still being civil?


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## turnera

You shouldn't have told her about the custody = money thing.


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## Chaparral

turnera said:


> You shouldn't have told her about the custody = money thing.


No matter how good it feels, loose lips sink ships.


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## 845dad

Time for an update and some advise. We had our second lawyers get together at the courthouse...she agreed to my having the kids 19 out of 35 days and and household expenses....so I get a call from my lawyer yesterday...or today actually that we have been assigned a advocate for the kids...I asked my wife and she now days it's the usual and right thing to do for the kids...oh and get this..fondly found the report card where I worked a straight day shift...40 days tardy that year...do what can I expect from this advocate for the kids..and do I bring the evidence of her being set gym with the kids up to 10pm on s school night and the tardy retort card...what else should I have in the chamber?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Everything. Every damn piece of ammunition you have. Pile it two feet high on the desk and ask her "Do you REALLY want to do this?"


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## poida

OMG. Some people. Sorry you are going through this mate. One seriously self centred person by the sound of it.


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## tom67

turnera said:


> Everything. Every damn piece of ammunition you have. Pile it two feet high on the desk and ask her "Do you REALLY want to do this?"


Let me think...
Do this!!!
Bring it on!


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## 845dad

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 845dad

Yeah so I have. Ezpass statements showing 930pm gym times worth the kids on school nights, 40 times tardy in a school year, got the kids dressed in their school clothes at night to speed up the morning routine,more than tripled her hours at work once she was discovered, closed a 401k secretly and got caught..these are just the big ticket items%I'm thinking of right now....so want her out of my house and out of my life as much as possible
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Suspecting2014

Dont forget the CS she must pay but hasnt.


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## SamuraiJack

Sorry you are going through this. 
My ex did the gym thing too.
As soon as she got thinned out, she started changing attitudes and I think she was either having an EA or PA.

You HAVE to persevere through this.
For your kids and your dignity.

Once you are through the storm, you will breathe easier.

The best part comes when the ex's world starts to unravel around them. Then you just sit back with some popcorn and a beer and watch karma have a go at them.

I promise you it will be worth the wait.


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## Ripper

845dad said:


> or today actually that we have been assigned a advocate for the kids


I agree with the other posters. Bring everything you have got to the table.

Some of these advocates have an agenda of their own. Watch (I'm assuming) her carefully and see if your attorney has a fall back plan in case you start seeing favoritism. I'm certain there are some threads in this forum where an advocate really screwed things up because they sympathize with one gender over another.


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## Hicks

So an advocate for the kids is a sign that the wife is selfish?

And advocate for the kids advocates for the kids, not for the wife. The advocate will ask the kids who they want to live with.

The formula for child support in NY awards all C.S to the custodial parent, and the custodial parent is the person the kids are with > 50% of the time.


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## naiveonedave

Hicks said:


> So an advocate for the kids is a sign that the wife is selfish?
> 
> And advocate for the kids advocates for the kids, not for the wife. The advocate will ask the kids who they want to live with.
> 
> The formula for child support in NY awards all C.S to the custodial parent, and the custodial parent is the person the kids are with > 50% of the time.


Many times the advocate brings a man hating agenda. just sayin.....


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## 845dad

took the kids to the law advocate for the children...she came also...after the kids talked individually, the nutjob asked tpo talk to the lawyer also...jackpot..this allowed me to talk to her as well. had the ezpasses the report card and explained that the court now had put me in charge of bedtime and where they sleep. I explained my schedule and what i do to get the kids off to school and how she had increased her hours exponentially once discovered...the lawyer actually asked if I thought she was capable of doing it herself..I said maybe but I'm not sure because right now she is in an upcycle...then the lawyer asked if she was on medication...I explained how how she self medicates by lifting for hours and hours...pretty sure the kids lawyer got her eyes opened a little.


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## Suspecting2014

845dad said:


> took the kids to the law advocate for the children...she came also...after the kids talked individually, the nutjob asked tpo talk to the lawyer also...jackpot..this allowed me to talk to her as well. had the ezpasses the report card and explained that the court now had put me in charge of bedtime and where they sleep. I explained my schedule and what i do to get the kids off to school and how she had increased her hours exponentially once discovered...the lawyer actually asked if I thought she was capable of doing it herself..I said maybe but I'm not sure because right now she is in an upcycle...then the lawyer asked if she was on medication...*I explained how how she self medicates by lifting for hours and hours...pretty sure the kids lawyer got her eyes opened a little*.


IMO you have done well, in fact very well, but you may consider the follow for the next time with kids advocate.

Just reveal and talk about facts, things you can prove, never about suppositions, no matter are good or bad .

Don't badmouth her in any way! this is for two reasons:

1.- The advocate will believe you are trying to play you WW. Nothing makes you look worse than speaking bad about someone else specially a mother facing D.

2.- Your WW has done a terrific job pulling your kids away, Do not spoil it. Let her finish her job.

Good luck


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## 845dad

everything I showed the childrens lawyer was on paper nothing that can't be proven with either gym swipe times (my account) or the ez pass statements or report card...kicking myself now...forgot to mention she actually posted the 40 times tardy report card on facebook.....yeah makes you wonder


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## happyman64

> forgot to mention she actually posted the 40 times tardy report card on facebook


That goes to show you just how mentally "challenged" your wife is.

What mother would post it let alone want anyone to know she cannot get her kids to school ontime for a majority of days.

Can anyone say "Nutjob!".

Keep documenting 845Dad and being a concerned parent.

HM


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## 845dad

new update...not a huge one but I'm kind of freaking out. Friday she had a 7am appointment..I assume with her new lawyer..She has been nice for the last 3 days...it is totally freaking me out...I just wonder whats going to happen now...my lawyer says that her new lawyer likes to settle ...lets hope for the best


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## farsidejunky

Let your lawyer worry. That is what you pay him for.

In the meantime, she probably knows you have her over a barrel. Be patient and remember the mountain of evidence you have.


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## 845dad

ah christ...just got a letter in the mail which contains a letter from her lawyer...included in it is a total BS schedule where it has me getting the kids at 10am on two or 3 days ...so what time is her court ordered full time job going to start?..also she said the minivan which i bought in april (before any legal stuff) the down payment which was from the totalled accord....yeah she was grabbing a coffe..no way she was texting her boy toy...well she said it ws from tax returns..so she wants half back......lol...lets see..last year she made 20K i made 140k ..your you deserve half...so tired of all this...had schedule agreed upon pro rata expenses......just so exhausted..and she is still living at home...


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## 845dad

sorry for the rant...just not so slowly losing my mind...was very nice before in asking to inform the others about 2 weeks vacation a year...well i get 5 and looks like christmas week and august are about to be spent with dad


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## Clay2013

I know its hard now but just keep moving forward. Look at the bright side soon you will have her out of your life with the exception to the kids. Freedom is wonderful. It took a while for me to get through it but as hard as those days were I look at them fondly now. I still talk to my xW from time to time about the kids but other than that I am so thankful she is someone elses headache now. 

Clay


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## happyman64

845dad

The end is in sight.

Your Ex is a tool.

Just keep moving forward to get her out of your life.

HM


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## Affaircare

845dad said:


> ah christ...just got a letter in the mail which contains a letter from her lawyer...included in it is a total BS schedule where it has me getting the kids at 10am on two or 3 days ...so what time is her court ordered full time job going to start?..also she said the minivan which i bought in april (before any legal stuff) the down payment which was from the totalled accord....yeah she was grabbing a coffe..no way she was texting her boy toy...well she said it ws from tax returns..so she wants half back......lol...lets see..last year she made 20K i made 140k ..your you deserve half...so tired of all this...had schedule agreed upon pro rata expenses......just so exhausted..and she is still living at home...


845dad, 

Allow me to help you with a response to this letter--sent from your attorney, of course. 

_Dear Crazy Ex's Attorney,

Pick up children at 10am? No. The children will be picked up at 7am to facilitate the only working adult parent. 

Down payment for the minivan from taxes? No. The funds came from the insurance settlement from the Accord, proof attached. 

Receive half of the tax return refund retroactively? No. The splitting of that tax return occurred during the marriage and was a joint marital asset that was split appropriately to the financial contribution of each party during the marriage. 

Please refer to our attached Parenting Plan and Schedule which includes..... This is the plan to which we are willing to agree.

Sincerely, 

845dad's Attorney_


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## 845dad

Actually, i want to pick them up after work so 730pm or so. The schedule she sent to us looks like a 2nd grader made it up..just has the floorplan for a 5 week schedule and either mom or dad. I work a very weird schedule days and nights 90 percent 12 hours but 4 eight hour days in the mix. This allows me to work basically 180 days a year. It disgusts me that she agrres to a schedule ..a good fair schedule that i was willing to wiggle some to one that is nonsense and ill planned because now she no longer sees the money she thinks she should get...is child support..not mom support...especially is she is a BS RN.


----------



## Dogbert

Affaircare said:


> 845dad,
> 
> Allow me to help you with a response to this letter--sent from your attorney, of course.
> 
> _Dear Crazy Ex's Attorney,
> 
> Pick up children at 10am? No. The children will be picked up at 7am to facilitate the only working adult parent.
> 
> Down payment for the minivan from taxes? No. The funds came from the insurance settlement from the Accord, proof attached.
> 
> Receive half of the tax return refund retroactively? No. The splitting of that tax return occurred during the marriage and was a joint marital asset that was split appropriately to the financial contribution of each party during the marriage.
> 
> Please refer to our attached Parenting Plan and Schedule which includes..... This is the plan to which we are willing to agree.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 845dad's Attorney_


This post is so good, it merits reposting.


----------



## Affaircare

845dad, 

What I'm suggesting is that just because she presented "a plan" doesn't mean you have to agree to abide by that plan. 

Just say, "No. I'm sticking to XYZ Plan" which is the one that you said was "...a good fair schedule that i was wiling to wiggle some..."


----------



## happyman64

> especially is she is a BS RN


Let me spell that out for everybody so there is no confusion.

*B*@T *S*H!T *R*OYAL *N*UTJOB!


Because there is no way someone that mean and crazy could be a nurse.....


----------



## 845dad

Not happy ...not happy at all. So where do I begin we had our third court visit today...pretty sure we are going to end up in trial. Everything that was agreed upon at the 2nd ...ie custody ..which is the main thing...well now thats back in the wind..she said her previous lawyer was pressuring her to accept and told her she had too...lol...the only reason she challenged is because she wants child support. Was more than happy to let me have them for half the month until it no longer helps her Cinderella existence. NOTHING..and I mean NOTHING was settled today... So I am 90 percent through the refinance..as told to do by my lawyer at my second court appearance...what now...so upset...so tired of her nonsense..now she wants all the actual receipts..not bank statements..is that legal...so tired of this. I'm thinking about starting to play hard ball...she has to pay 25 percent of house maintenance...im thinking the roof counts


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## honcho

Even if you agreed to everything she wanted today she would have found something else to not be happy about. She is living on the drama far more than wanting resolution.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Always play hardball, take everything, and then give back a little.


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## weightlifter

Good grief its luvmyjava's crazy harpy v2.0


----------



## Suspecting2014

Hard ball is the only way to show her that things could be much more worse for her.

Use all the cards you have!


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## bfree

Until you put her back on her heels she is going to keep coming forward. Give her a reality check.


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## Hicks

NY has screwy child support. I was surprised she was ever agreeing to less than 50%. That swings all the C.S. to you vs her. There is no prorating for amount of time spent. Hopefully you have a strong case for primary.


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## 845dad

the judge has already stated that due to my schedule that 29% is inappropriate...what bothers me is she is more than willing to give the kids to me 60% of the time...but just wants the money. Her and her lawyer are now asking for hard copies of all the receipts...bank statements for the debit card apparently aren't enough...is this kosher...because my hoarder wife has receipts for the last 10 years...I think they are all going in a box......and here you go


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## turnera

Offer her to pay her CS until the kids turn 18 if she gives you 100% custody.


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## LongWalk

I think you can seek almost full custody anyway based on her commitment to Crossfit.


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## honcho

845dad said:


> the judge has already stated that due to my schedule that 29% is inappropriate...what bothers me is she is more than willing to give the kids to me 60% of the time...but just wants the money. Her and her lawyer are now asking for hard copies of all the receipts...bank statements for the debit card apparently aren't enough...is this kosher...because my hoarder wife has receipts for the last 10 years...I think they are all going in a box......and here you go


They can ask for anything, you don't have to give them anything unless the judge orders it. No lawyer is going to sift thru mountains of receipts and no judge even wants to deal with individual receipts nor cares unless you've spent huge sums of money on questionable items. 

Lawyers love to ask for this type of detail because its annoying to you and easy billing time for them. If they truly must have the stuff her attorney can file a discovery and explain to the judge why. Most judges get annoyed pretty quick with such requests especially this far into your divorce. 

My crazy stbx lawyer spent months chasing similar silliness looking for the "tens of thousands" I supposedly spent on all sorts of crazy stories she told him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 845dad

Just got the taxes done...$6600 due to her 401k BS....was pretty awesome watching the lightbulbs explode as he explained to her what she did...LOL


----------



## happyman64

845dad said:


> Just got the taxes done...$6600 due to her 401k BS....was pretty awesome watching the lightbulbs explode as he explained to her what she did...LOL


"Stupid is as stupid does"

Even Forrest Gump was smarter than her. 😂
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013

6600 in cash = amazing.
Look on her face = priceless. 



Good for you

Clay


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## 845dad

So the princess finally decided to work full time. She hires two babysitters without me even meeting them. I'm pretty used to inconsiderate nonsense at this time so I just pack it down. I get offered overtime next week, so I tell her that I was offered OT, she replies that I will have to find coverage...no big deal I think...so I tell her I will use the babysitters she has employed...she informs me I am not to use them and that this will need to be discussed at the lawyers. This pizzes me off because just last week she told me I had to stay home with the sick kids because she was desperately needed at work....I am no longer going to facilitate her and her nonsense...Why is it that I assume that because I act like an adult she would also..I'm reaaly getting tired of all this BS.


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## Dogbert

845dad said:


> Why is it that I assume that because I act like an adult she would also..I'm reaaly getting tired of all this BS.


Because old habits are hard to break.

As far as the babysitters are concerned, if they are being paid out of your pocket, then you are also their employer and can avail yourself of their services, no matter what your STBXWW says.


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## Nucking Futs

Dogbert said:


> Because old habits are hard to break.
> 
> As far as the babysitters are concerned, if they are being paid out of your pocket, then you are also their employer and can avail yourself of their services, no matter what your STBXWW says.


If you use her babysitters she'll likely fire them. She'll screw herself over to spite you.


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## Dogbert

Nucking Futs said:


> If you use her babysitters she'll likely fire them. She'll screw herself over to spite you.


Then he can document this and use it in court.


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## LongWalk

Maybe she is afraid the babysitters will like you.

Your stbx is not 100 percent. No use hating her. She will punish herself many times over.


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## Chaparral

No matter where she goes, there she'll be. You got lucky, she's gone, you just may not realize it yet. Many, many threads here attest to that.


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## workindad

Chaparral said:


> No matter where she goes, their she'll be. You got lucky, she's gone, you just may not realize it yet. Many, many threads here attest to that.


This was certainly true in my case. And I have no doubt that it will be in your either/

Once the dust settled a bit and I was able to start to focus on rebuilding my life, I realized how much better off I was without the lying cheating, disrespectful, and unremorseful wayward in my life. The crap that I put up with and my attempts to try to make things better were futile. 

My XWW suffered from an extreme case of entitled princess syndrome. Working to support herself has been a real eye opener for her. She has actually matured a bit and that has helped with coparenting. 

Good luck to you. Stay strong- focus on yourself and the kids.


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## 845dad

At this point I start to wonder about my own sanity...Is it me or is she completely batsnot...so mothers day...she has stuff to do...from 10 am to 8 or so at night...really dont care what it is...just hard to tell the kids..I have no idea when she is going to be home...and because I am a nice guy took the kids out bought her some cheap plant that the kids picked out and made a full on dinner...sucks telling the kids they have to eat and that thaey can't wait for mom to eat because I have no idea when she is going to be home....on a positive note one of the babysitters is very good..plays outside with the kids..very involved...the other..not so much..


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## happyman64

845dad said:


> At this point I start to wonder about my own sanity...Is it me or is she completely batsnot...so mothers day...she has stuff to do...from 10 am to 8 or so at night...really dont care what it is...just hard to tell the kids..I have no idea when she is going to be home...and because I am a nice guy took the kids out bought her some cheap plant that the kids picked out and made a full on dinner...sucks telling the kids they have to eat and that thaey can't wait for mom to eat because I have no idea when she is going to be home....on a positive note one of the babysitters is very good..plays outside with the kids..very involved...the other..not so much..


She is not batsnot.

What is she?

*Selfish.*


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## 845dad

The the crazy games begin...so we had court friday..on a positive note she has agreed to 1300 a month for child support...yeah that sucks but as my lawyer pointed out she has been unreasonable and angry at every turn this is alot lower than the BS NYS 29% of gross that she may be entitled to if it goes to actual court. Here is where it gets crazy..I submitted the common expenses as I see them mortgage electric, car insurance, what I pay for medical dental and groceries...pretty standard stuff correct...she has an itemiezed list of basically everything she has spent in the last year......gas for seeing her relatives..maitenance on the car she chose to keep...movie tickets..and the piece de reistance ...how much she had to pay for the taxes due to her illegally closing her 401k...OMG you just have to laugh at this nonsense...i wish i could post a picture of her expenses for a good laugh


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## 845dad

thought you guys might like a laugh...


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## Roselyn

Many of these stay-at-home entitled princesses don't know what it is like to make a living. I am a woman, married 35 years, a career woman, and has been in my professional position for 25 years. When these princesses are finally on their own, they are surprised at how hard it is to make a buck and usually make stupid financial decisions. In your case, your ex decided to cash out her 401K. She didn't get too far with that, not to mention the taxes owed!


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## bfree

Pull up a chair and break out the popcorn. The ride is just beginning.


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## honcho

In a month or two she will change her mind about the child support. Its what the "special" ones do. Somehow your lawyer will have to hammer out a global settlement to put this thing to rest. Its about the only shot otherwise in her flighty state she will just change her mind over and over. Ive had so many agreements on single items only to have it changed later. 

This ride seemingly never ends, not until something else distracts her which in her head will be better. She needs this drama it fuels her and she won't give it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 845dad

The one thing I have is money...the judge said she has to pay all her own legal fees...if I have to I'll poorhouse her...because if its one thing i can do ..is put up with her BS...just like being on a submarine...bide your time...and laugh at the idiots


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## honcho

845dad said:


> The one thing I have is money...the judge said she has to pay all her own legal fees...if I have to I'll poorhouse her...because if its one thing i can do ..is put up with her BS...just like being on a submarine...bide your time...and laugh at the idiots


My crazy stbx has spent more than 30k chasing nonsense and fantasy. She has run herself into financial ruin to get nowhere. Once they run out of funds divorce takes a different level of weird because they try handling things themselves. Then you really get nowhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 845dad

Wow honcho...your a damn psychic...went to the 5 way. And got the bait and switch...1300 a month became 1800 a month..so tired of this...lol..and this is the angering part...she lets out that that I am too tired to get the kids after my last day of mids and has a picture of me and the youngest to prove it....just put 2 and 2 together...she took a picture of me and Evie after....I worked mids the night before..went to court.then .picked up my daughter from school because she was sick...then got the kids the bus........yeah I'm such a poor excuse for a dad


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## 845dad

Well now she has approached a new stage called I'm so entitled nothing but me means anything..I just had to share these litle gems..they are off the chart. We have a 4 year old dog and 2 years ago her acl went. We had it surgically repaird but it didn't take well...because she refused to listen to the vet or me about what was needed for ROM (range of motion) it was supposed to be just a little gentle lifting of the leg...not the full extension and circlular nonsense that she did...please remember entitled princesses always lnow better. flash forward to kno...the other knee looks like the same thing is going on...so I mentioned to her(nicely i might ad) that we should consider have the other knee operated on. Her reply had less emotion or caring than the terminator...The first one didn't do any good so there is no sense in doing the second one...heartless beeoootttchh. Then 

then we have this morning...I work rotaing day and night 12 hour shifts...my daughter had a half day of preschool and after I got home this morning at 757 I asked where the babysitter was..she replied oh shes in pennsylvania...said you can get a babysitter anytime you need...really... thanks for the warning. and to top it off I leave for work at 445pm..she shows up at 530 pm...so on top of getting 2.5 hours of sleep I get to be late for work...what a nice little princess...oh ...and if she thinks I'm going to be home in time for her to get to work on time...she has another thing coming. GAME ON


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## Sports Fan

Truly sorry you are going through this. In short, stop communicating with her play hard and poor house her. Show her no mercy or consideration of whatsoever.

Its the only way to deal with such an imbecile!


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## weightlifter

yech. same wife club as luvmyjava a and lbhmidwest.


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## CTPlay

I'm going to develop a "crazy" test. If it's successful I'll save billions of men and women from marrying crazy.

But then the human population would plummet.


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## GusPolinski

CTPlay said:


> I'm going to develop a "crazy" test. If it's successful I'll save billions of men and women from marrying crazy.
> 
> *But then the human population would plummet.*


Might not be a bad thing, TBH.


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## tom67

CTPlay said:


> I'm going to develop a "crazy" test. If it's successful I'll save billions of men and women from marrying crazy.
> 
> But then the human population would plummet.



Say Goodbye to Crazy Episode One: Talking with Crazies


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## RWB

845,

My older brother is a lot smarter and richer than I will ever be. The one word of advice he gave me that really hits home... Never directly commutate with the "crazy". Make it a strict policy that all issues are directed to lawyer and only your lawyer. It's will cost you on the front end but save your a$$ on the rear.


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## 845dad

At times I just shake my head. This week I happen to be working midnights..so I get home just before 8 am. When I'm home the STBX is there ...but so is the babysitter. This is where it gets crazy...not that I'm home she tells the babysitter she can go...so basically the babysitter is there to sit there while you get ready for work...am I crazy or is this nuts...what should one expect from someone who is making 16 an hour to take care of the kids..make meals clean the house do dishes...I am really unsure I'm really trying to figure this whole thing out.


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## Tall

So you still live with her?


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## turnera

I don't understand.


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## happyman64

^^^^

What is there to understand. It is all perfectly clear.

His wife is nuts.
His wife is selfish.
His wife feels entitled to everything that is his.

I think that is perfectly clear.

Now if I could just find the right Hallmark card for 845Dad....

HM


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## honcho

happyman64 said:


> ^^^^
> 
> What is there to understand. It is all perfectly clear.
> 
> His wife is nuts.
> His wife is selfish.
> His wife feels entitled to everything that is his.
> 
> I think that is perfectly clear.
> 
> Now if I could just find the right Hallmark card for 845Dad....
> 
> HM


The only hallmark card he needs is a final divorce decree. 

The crappy part is even after divorce she will still be nuts, selfish and will feel entitled to everything. She won't go quietly into the night. Its what the "special" ones do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Craterus

845Dad - thanks for sharing this and thanks for everyone who's provided advice. I've read it from front to back. I'm just at the start of your little journey. Wish I had read this thread and others a couple of months ago before I made some of the mistakes that seem pretty common for a guy to make. 

going to start my own thread and not hijack this one.. so just a thanks for now


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## bandit.45

happyman64 said:


> ^^^^
> 
> What is there to understand. It is all perfectly clear.
> 
> His wife is nuts.
> His wife is selfish.
> His wife feels entitled to everything that is his.
> 
> 
> And she is a wh0re.....
> 
> 
> I think that is perfectly clear.
> 
> Now if I could just find the right Hallmark card for 845Dad....
> 
> HM


Fixed that for you.


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## 845dad

Well, the next chapter has begun. So this week is the last week of school and my daughter won some awards(principal's list etc...very proud) so I took wednesday and thursday off...no big deal right...well she informs me that I will have to chip in to pay the babysitter. I told herno, i'll pay for a babysitter when I need on...which is when i do overtime..which is never....a half an hour later i get a text just to let me know she is going to get an apartment in the next couple of days...my reply was OK... well today she pulled the kids out of the end of year preschool party for the youngest and texts me that she had goten a place and that they will be stayinging there tonights....oh...and all the animals are still here..imagine that...is insanity contagious...god i hope not...so tomorrow on my way home from work.i'm going to tell her I am going to pick the kids up and that I would like to see the place they are staying to make sure it is safe...is this feasible?...its sound ok to me...but the crazy might have worn off her


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## Clay2013

Sounds reasonable to me but I bet she will fight you on it when you state you want to make sure its safe lol 

Clay


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## happyman64

845dad said:


> so tomorrow on my way home from work.i'm going to tell her I am going to pick the kids up and that I would like to see the place they are staying to make sure it is safe...is this feasible?...its sound ok to me...but the crazy might have worn off her


You have every right to check out her apartment.

Man she is crazy.


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## convert

845dad, if you have not already, start caring a VAR on you at all times when you are around her.


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## happyman64

I know your mad. You have every right to be at her.

Especially when her biggest expense by far is Disney World.

By why not remove the attachment or at least her name at the top of the list. 

For both your sakes.

HM


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## 845dad

Hi all, back for some more advise...imagine that. What is she up to now you ask....the usual. After work on my final day shift she is not allowing me to get the kids at 730pm...she is saying I can get them at 730am then next day...I'm pretty sure this is ridiculous...some days I just shake my head...for instance, when I returned home from work yesterday one of the couches was gone...I really couldn't care about the couch, but it leaves me wondering..no couch..what do they sit on...she stayed the house for a year you would have thought she had all her ducks in a row.

So I have2 questions that I have called the lawyer about and I am awaiting a response. Number one...since we do not have a separation agreement set up do I need to pay her anything for her having moved out. I personally say no due to the fact she never payed a dime in the last year even when it was ordered by the judge. And 2 how would you guys play this....she is playing the system to get more nights...ie the 730 am thing...do I push for the separation agreement or just let it ride and wait for her to come to the table....any advice would be greatly appreciated


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## turnera

For Pete's sake, dad. Just pay the lawyer to get it all legal. It is the ONE thing in your life that you will have to pay for that will be worth its weight in gold.

Get the lawyer involved. Get it all legal. Stay out of it yourself. INSIST on YOUR time with the kids.


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## 3putt

turnera said:


> For Pete's sake, dad. Just pay the lawyer to get it all legal. It is the ONE thing in your life that you will have to pay for that will be worth its weight in gold.
> 
> Get the lawyer involved. Get it all legal. Stay out of it yourself. INSIST on YOUR time with the kids.


.....and change the locks.


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## 845dad

Earlier in the whole mess I told her that once she was out i'd give her 30 days to take whatever she wanted. That and if she has keys and access she can't claim i kicked her out. And its going to be difficult to say I created a hostile enviroment because she stayed a more than year there after her nonsense was discovered, She also can't claim poverty because of the 2 401ks she closed out or the fact she is on track to make 60k this year and contributed nothing to household finances.


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## honcho

845dad said:


> Hi all, back for some more advise...imagine that. What is she up to now you ask....the usual. After work on my final day shift she is not allowing me to get the kids at 730pm...she is saying I can get them at 730am then next day...I'm pretty sure this is ridiculous...some days I just shake my head...for instance, when I returned home from work yesterday one of the couches was gone...I really couldn't care about the couch, but it leaves me wondering..no couch..what do they sit on...she stayed the house for a year you would have thought she had all her ducks in a row.
> 
> So I have2 questions that I have called the lawyer about and I am awaiting a response. Number one...since we do not have a separation agreement set up do I need to pay her anything for her having moved out. I personally say no due to the fact she never payed a dime in the last year even when it was ordered by the judge. And 2 how would you guys play this....she is playing the system to get more nights...ie the 730 am thing...do I push for the separation agreement or just let it ride and wait for her to come to the table....any advice would be greatly appreciated


If all that's disappeared from the house is a couch count yourself lucky. I came home a couple of times to find entire rooms cleaned out including carpeting. 

If you aren't under any legal agreement to give her funds then don't. Giving her anything won't get your divorce done any quicker and often just fuels the nuttiness and drags it out longer.

Most judges and lawyers don't care about household items, they aren't worth much overall. But don't be shocked if whatever she leaves in the house for you to keep suddenly becomes precious valuable antiques worth thousands of dollars. It just creates another fight which is what she wants. Been there done that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 845dad

I couldn't care less about anything in the house... It's just stuff..I packed the xbox and a tv for kids...my big concern is kids
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

That's what the lawyer is for, dad. Have you heard from them yet?


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## terrence4159

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## LongWalk

What a journey.


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## 845dad

more and more nonsense...lasr friday instead of me handing the kids off at 530pm after her work wass done and just before I had to leave for work she takes the kids at 730AM...paying $16 an hour for a babysitter (yes thats sixteen an hour) all day ...she is nuts


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## 845dad

where do I begin...so so so over this nonsense...so she has been playing her games about hours with the kids..no surprise there. Well here is a new twist..I started taking the kids to therapy...oh they need it...well at first she was on board now she says no more...she is angry that I set appointments when they are convenient to me and not her...oh well they are set up by me so deal with it...so she calls the therapist and say she is no longer on board ...so now the therapist won't see them and she is trying to contact the child advocate to force the issue....I really can't stand her


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## turnera

Have your lawyer handle it. You have proof they need it; use it.


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