# Wanted Poster. (Fear and insecurity wanted for causing infidelity).



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I posted this in another thread but felt like it's a topic of it's own.



Insecurities and fear of being alone hasn't been mentioned in this thread that I've seen, but they are big problems. A lot the other stuff talked about in the thread is merely symptoms of fear and insecurity.

Waywards:
People become unhappy or bored but they're terrified to be alone so the search for a replacement starts. It's very important to keep plan B in place because after all 'being alone' is the worst thing possible. So they test the waters trying not to get caught (flirting). So then innocent flirting and then inappropriate flirting and maybe even a fling that doesn't work out happens. But eventually they find another person who's doing the same thing. Another flying squirrel looking for a safe limb to land on. During this time, the partner is looking less and less attractive. Partly because of the original boredom or unhappy dynamics but more so because the OM/OW is new and shiny. Add to that the mistakes BSs make. Most don't know to set solid boundaries or 180 and if they did know they wouldn't do it anyway because they're afraid too.

Betrayed:
When a partner starts losing interest like the precursor to most waywards, many people start grasping. They seem needy and clingy, or controlling, or ultra insecure because they're terrified of being alone. But to the future WS they become less attractive quickly.

The problem with living by fear is that principles, boundaries, inner happiness, etc, are all compromised. People feel trapped out of fear and people won't set boundaries out of fear.


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

It may very well be fear that causes a WS to build a new life on the back of their BS. Instead of confronting their own fear of aloneness and communicating those fears to their spouse, cowardice, lies and deceit instead becomes the name of the game. 

Cake eating in other words. 

In their lying, cowardly mind it's easier to sneak around like a thief in the night, causing suffering and pain to another human being than be honest about their own human failings and needs.



Regarding the BS and their fears of being left alone.

I've been betrayed several times, 4 times in my first marriage, twice in the second so I know all about the the feelings of the betrayed. Yes, 5 times I was terrified, 5 times I was clingy and needy. 

It took 6 times before I woke up to the fact that I was "doing" something very wrong. Even though to all intents and purposes, I was actually a very good wife.

I took a good long hard look at myself and realised that if I didn't want it to happen again I HAD to change. I realised, that while he was a coward and a betrayer, I was one too, albeit in a different way, because I was only betraying myself. 

So I went into that dark, lonely and fearful place inside myself and realised that I had to be fully prepared to let my marriage go and be okay with it. This was hard, because it invoked all sorts of terrors, however, once I came to terms with it and was able to halt the neediness, the clinging, and deal with this fear of loss, I was then able to start laying firm boundaries and communicate those changes to my spouse. 

In other words, I became BRAVE. 

I've seen remarkable changes in our relationship and our communications since then.

So in effect the betrayal itself, was the causative factor in that inner search and from that point the marriage has seen much growth and healing.


I truly believe that without boundaries, forthright honesty in communications and scrupulous integrity, every relationship is eventually doomed to fail.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Op, it does read as if you are suggesting that a BS's "fear" as you call it, precipitates the A- that if only the BS wasn't so "needy and clingy, or controlling, or ultra insecure because they're terrified of being alone" the A would never have materialized.

That's a bunch of hooey, at least IMO.
The A occurred because the WS chose that option.
While the emotional maturity of both parties could, or rather, should play a role in a reconciliation, the A is a one-sided dagger into a relationship.

And if I'm reading your post incorrectly, please share.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Pluto2 said:


> Op, it does read as if you are suggesting that a BS's "fear" as you call it, precipitates the A- that if only the BS wasn't so "needy and clingy, or controlling, or ultra insecure because they're terrified of being alone" the A would never have materialized.
> 
> That's a bunch of hooey, at least IMO.
> *The A occurred because the WS chose that option.*
> ...


The A occurred because the BS was not clingy and insecure. S/He had an open mind and felt confident enough that their partner talking with / hanging out with and so on with someone of the opposite sex was just not a problem...... until it became one. 

Over the decades, I've noticed a lot of women who keep tabs and sometimes blocks those who contacts their husbands...... and well, they're still together.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> The A occurred because the BS was not clingy and insecure. S/He had an open mind and felt confident enough that their partner talking with / hanging out with and so on with someone of the opposite sex was just not a problem...... until it became one.
> 
> Over the decades, I've noticed a lot of women who keep tabs and sometimes blocks those who contacts their husbands...... and well, they're still together.


So is your point that men just can't help themselves and without adequate supervision they will cheat?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Thundarr said:


> When a partner starts losing interest like the precursor to most waywards, many people start grasping. They seem needy and clingy, or controlling, or ultra insecure because they're terrified of being alone. But to the future WS they become less attractive quickly..


There is a really thin line in there. The BS, not knowing their spouse is seeking their replacement, does know the marriage isn’t working. By default, most actually do want to fix this. So they start making some efforts where they believe there are issues.

The rub. Because that seeking is lied about, what the WS does is tell them their justifications for the infidelity (but won’t admit the infidelity). And that’s what the BS is working on; Those expressed wrongs. By then though it is too late; The WS, is holding onto that past. They aren’t looking at you for that future, so whatever you are doing now is seen in a negative perception like “too little, too late”.

So you are buying into the WS perspective that your spouse, making genuine efforts, is ‘clingy and needy’ out of fear; Something negative. With just a slight perception change, those same actions are a spouse, who loves and wants his/her spouse, making real efforts to improve the marriage based on what they know.

I do remember that is what sucked the worst back then. She’d have a major complaint, and I’d address it only to have it devalued and replaced with some new complaint. Constant moving target of all these issues with our marriage and me floundering around trying to patch the leaky ship not really knowing the monster of it was her poking holes in the boat every chance she got to justify her adultery.

It’s after the affair is discovered that most BS’s make that mistake. They continue to work on those marriage issues the WS used to justify and excuse not really understanding that by now, it doesn’t really matter to the WS; They will hold onto that past and it is not something you can change.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Op, it does read as if you are suggesting that a BS's "fear" as you call it, precipitates the A- that if only the BS wasn't so "needy and clingy, or controlling, or ultra insecure because they're terrified of being alone" the A would never have materialized.
> 
> That's a bunch of hooey, at least IMO.
> The A occurred because the WS chose that option.
> ...


I didn't read it that way. I read it that the "needy, clingy and controlling" are a result, (not the cause), of the Wayward getting more involved with the affair. The Betrayed feels the Wayward pulling away and in turn becomes needy, clingy and "controlling".

Thundarr's post perfectly describes the dynamic between my BIL (Betrayed) and SIL (Wayward). When she was constantly texting with a married coworker, my BIL began to get suspicious and told her enough was enough. She accused him of being controlling and having trust issues. He could feel her pulling away and tried everything to re-engage her but I think it made her even more unattracted. It didn't help that his therapist was giving him the advice to "nice" his wife back. Worst advice ever.

Also, my SIL has a history of being a "flying squirrel". She has been married before and all the things she did at the end of her 1st marriage she has done with her 2nd marriage. It's a pattern for her. Looking back, my BIL has realized that he was probably the OM in her prior relationship.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Perhaps I was tied up in the name of this thread "...fear and insecurity wanted for causing infidelity" But also Thundarr states that the fear and insecurity makes the spouse less attractive to the *future WS*, implying that the A had not yet taken place. Suppose I'm splitting hairs.

Soccermom, I see the point you are making and I'm very sorry for your BIL. In your story it appears that the BIL was attempting to assert a boundary about conduct that he could not tolerate. The SIL rejects the boundary as controlling. Was the SIL's perception of her H's actions accurrate-I don't think so. He was right to have trust issues and to assert a boundary.

And if he had not tried everything do you think it would have any difference. Sounds like she had a pattern and BIL played an interchangeable role. That's sad.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Op, it does read as if you are suggesting that a BS's "fear" as you call it, precipitates the A- that if only the BS wasn't so "needy and clingy, or controlling, or ultra insecure because they're terrified of being alone" the A would never have materialized.
> 
> That's a bunch of hooey, at least IMO.
> The A occurred because the WS chose that option.
> ...


No a BS is never responsible for the WS cheating. There was always another option for the WS.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Racer said:


> So you are buying into the WS perspective that your spouse, making genuine efforts, is ‘clingy and needy’ out of fear; Something negative. With just a slight perception change, those same actions are a spouse, who loves and wants his/her spouse, making real efforts to improve the marriage based on what they know.


That's a good distinction Racer. Whether it's out of trying to fix things or out of being fearful, the WS perceives it the same way. So that's likely the bigger problem to begin with. I'd say many BS's slowly get pulled into this dynamic at first trying to fix whatever the problem is. 

But after the fact, many BSs are angry at themselves when thinking back on moments of weakness or insecurity. I look back and I'm angry that I might have taken my EX back if she'd chased me when we first split. Instead, she tried it after we were separated for a month which was about a week too late. I'd come to terms with things I didn't want to go back to by that time.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> I didn't read it that way. I read it that the "needy, clingy and controlling" are a result, (not the cause), of the Wayward getting more involved with the affair. The Betrayed feels the Wayward pulling away and in turn becomes needy, clingy and "controlling".
> 
> Thundarr's post perfectly describes the dynamic between my BIL (Betrayed) and SIL (Wayward). When she was constantly texting with a married coworker, my BIL began to get suspicious and told her enough was enough. She accused him of being controlling and having trust issues. He could feel her pulling away and tried everything to re-engage her but I think it made her even more unattracted. It didn't help that his therapist was giving him the advice to "nice" his wife back. Worst advice ever.
> 
> Also, my SIL has a history of being a "flying squirrel". She has been married before and all the things she did at the end of her 1st marriage she has done with her 2nd marriage. It's a pattern for her. Looking back, my BIL has realized that he was probably the OM in her prior relationship.


Your BIL/SIL are the exact scenario that I think happens over and over.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> The A occurred because the BS was not clingy and insecure. S/He had an open mind and felt confident enough that their partner talking with / hanging out with and so on with someone of the opposite sex was just not a problem...... until it became one.
> 
> Over the decades, I've noticed a lot of women who keep tabs and sometimes blocks those who contacts their husbands...... and well, they're still together.


Yep, I agree.

Looking back, in the earlier years of my marriage when I was, perhaps, more of a "b*tch," my WS adhered to marital boundaries (such as limitations on opposite sex friendships) than he did many years later.....when.....over many years of marriage and more trust, I became more relaxed about things like his friendships with women. There was his affair and also an opposite sex friendship that I became uncomfortable with. Not because of much of what the female friend ever did, but more due to the fact my WS's boundaries, in general, became very porous and practically non-existent. 

I've been desperate and clingy in the past and I abhor even the idea of feeling like that again - ever. More everyday I realize how much his affair has changed me. I'm no longer afraid to be alone but I think I've replaced it with vulnerability problems. Like I'm almost afraid to actually be with someone, WS included, and now I would rather be alone if our marriage were to end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

TryingToRecover said:


> Yep, I agree.
> 
> Looking back, in the earlier years of my marriage when I was, perhaps, more of a "b*tch," my WS adhered to marital boundaries (such as limitations on opposite sex friendships) than he did many years later.....when.....over many years of marriage and more trust, I became more relaxed about things like his friendships with women. There was his affair and also an opposite sex friendship that I became uncomfortable with. Not because of much of what the female friend ever did, but more due to the fact my WS's boundaries, in general, became very porous and practically non-existent.
> 
> ...


Maybe you just don't trust yourself so you're afraid of jumping into something too fast. I think that's a healthy fear though. I dated my wife for seven years before proposing. Once bitten twice shy.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I believe Einstein said fear or stupidity are the basis for most human actions.

Fear definitely plays a part in the Betrayed responses or actions though I think in looking back in my particular situation I think the fear of rejection played a part in my actions more than the fear of being alone. My situation blew up so quick I just couldn’t believe she would throw everything she had and all the years that fast for what she got.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

honcho said:


> I believe Einstein said fear or stupidity are the basis for most human actions.
> 
> Fear definitely plays a part in the Betrayed responses or actions though I think in looking back in my particular situation I think the fear of rejection played a part in my actions more than the fear of being alone. My situation blew up so quick I just couldn’t believe she would throw everything she had and all the years that fast for what she got.


Rejection is a direct hit to our ego unless we have our stuff together. And honestly most of us don't have it together when we're young. I was a young guy when my first marriage exploded so I was trying to figure out what I had done wrong and was trying to figure out how to fix it. Honestly I'd like to go back and punch myself in the nose.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

> Honestly I'd like to go back and punch myself in the nose.


I think this is how my BIL is feeling now but he did tell my husband that 10 years from now when his daughters asked him what happened with the marriage, he wants to be able to tell them that he tried everything to keep the family together.


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## RealAffairHelp (Aug 20, 2014)

Racer said:


> There is a really thin line in there. The BS, not knowing their spouse is seeking their replacement, does know the marriage isn’t working. By default, most actually do want to fix this. So they start making some efforts where they believe there are issues.
> 
> The rub. Because that seeking is lied about, what the WS does is tell them their justifications for the infidelity (but won’t admit the infidelity). And that’s what the BS is working on; Those expressed wrongs. By then though it is too late; The WS, is holding onto that past. They aren’t looking at you for that future, so whatever you are doing now is seen in a negative perception like “too little, too late”.
> 
> ...


This is a very insightful post. 

Thank you.

I have not read your thread. Were you able to reconcile with your spouse, and if so, how did you manage to deal with those past perceived wrongs?


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