# Is it normal to be scared of your husband?



## HelpPlease1 (Oct 14, 2015)

Hi, this is my first time posting here. I feel like I have no one to talk to and I'm in need of perspective. My husband and I have known each other for 15 years and been married for 12 years. We have 4 small kids together. Last night was the first time I felt very scared of him.

We had been arguing for the past few days because he really wants to have sex and I've been too tired/stressed out/hormonal (we had sex last week but he wants to have sex every day and starts to get angry if more than a few days go by). I've also been getting angrier the more he's been pressuring me and getting angry at me. Anyway, last night we were arguing once again after the kids were in bed. I finally got very mad and said I was done talking to him, and I stormed upstairs to our room and closed the door.

I was standing by my side of the bed a couple of minutes later when BAM the door was kicked open. The sound startled me and sent my heart hammering in my chest. He rushed in and said, "I'm feeling violent." And he stood there staring at me.

All I could say was, "You're feeling violent?"

He said, "Yes, I'm feeling violent."

He was on the other side of the bed from me. I was near a phone and I said, "Then I'm going to have to call someone." I started to reach for the phone but he said, "If you do that, I will smash it out of your hands."

I dropped my arm and then he came to my side of the bed, only a few feet away from me, and started yelling at me about how he was NOT going to let me run upstairs like that without letting him talk. I stood there, absolutely terrified out of my wits. Thankfully, after a moment he went back to the other side of the bed. Within a minute or two, he had stopped yelling and seemed to be trying to calm himself down, but I could tell he was still agitated, and I was still extremely shaken up.

He is at least 100 pounds heavier than me, and almost 6 inches taller than me. He had also been drinking. (He is a functional alcoholic and gets drunk or tipsy every night, although he usually just gets goofy and annoying and ends up passing out on the couch.)

Anyway, we kept arguing for a few minutes and finally he said, "What are we even arguing about?"

I said, "Why don't you tell me? You're the one who kicked in the door."

He stared at me for a moment, then said, "I am DONE" and stormed out of the room and downstairs. But only a couple of minutes later, I heard him coming back up the stairs. I instantly grabbed the phone, ran into our bathroom and locked the door. He seemed very angry again, and I had no idea if he was coming back because he was feeling violent again.

I stood in the bathroom for a moment before he called to me to open the door, that he wanted to talk to me. I said I didn't want to talk to him anymore tonight, that we could talk tomorrow. (I was scared of him getting so angry again.) After trying for a few minutes to get me to open the door, he said, "Then I'm going to wake up the kids."

I immediately came out of the bathroom and said, "What?! Why would you do that?"

He was standing by one of the kids' doors and he said, "So they can bear witness to what is happening to our family." I stared at him, feeling very scared again. But then he said, "I just wanted to get you to open the door."

Anyway, to make a long story short, he seemed to calm down and he could see how extremely upset I was (I couldn't stop crying). We both ended up going to bed but I couldn't even look at him and didn't want to be anywhere near him. I only slept for 1 or 2 hours all night.

This morning when my clock alarm went off he rolled over and apologized for scaring me last night. I didn't know what to say. Later, after our older kids left for school, I told him that if he ever does anything like that again, I'm calling the police. I said I need to know what he is going to do to ensure that it never happens again.

He initially made a childish comment about how he might not come home tonight, that he might stay in a hotel. I said, "What are you trying to accomplish by saying that?"

Then he apologized again and said he needs to cut back on his drinking (an issue we've talked about many, many times). He said he would never hit me, that last night he had just been telling me how he felt because he was very angry, but he would never do anything to me. I mentioned how he wouldn't even let me pick up the phone, and he denied doing that, but I know he did. I said regardless of his intentions, he scared me to death, and I refuse to be scared in my own house.

Anyway, he went to work and has texted and e-mailed me a few times today with random things, but also to say he hopes I'm having a good day.

I'm just so confused and sad. One time 4 years ago, we were arguing and I brought up a family member of his and he said, "If you ever say anything about him again, I will hit you." That time, he was on the other side of the room. I was very upset then too (he later apologized and eventually we moved past it) but I didn't feel as physically threatened as I did last night. I never, ever thought I would feel so scared of my own husband. I'm starting to wonder--is this normal?!?! Do other husbands occasionally lose it like that and make threats that they wouldn't actually follow through on?

His dad was very verbally and emotionally abusive to his mother, and hit her on at least one occasion (my husband witnessed it as a child). His older brother also has an explosive temper, and his ex-wife accused him of getting physical with her. So my husband definitely grew up in a dysfunctional, abusive family. I, on the other hand, grew up in the opposite. My parents didn't even argue in front of us, and my dad has always been kind and considerate. I'm totally unprepared to deal with this kind of situation.

I've been a stay-at-home mom for 10 years. I have no income and I have 4 small children, so leaving would be very tough. But I'm starting to think I should work toward that, maybe work toward getting back into a career. Then I keep thinking, am I overreacting? Should I give him a chance? He's not a horrible person, but I was reading about abuse last night when I couldn't sleep, and I'm starting to realize that a lot of the things that bug me about him could actually be signs of abuse: the way he constantly (and I mean CONSTANTLY) pressures me for sex, the way he grabs my breasts and my crotch randomly during the day even though I've told him a thousand times I don't like it, the way he is very smothering with his affection, the way he always seems to suspect me of cheating on him.

I just don't know what to do. I'm dreading him coming home tonight because I don't want to be anywhere around him. I just need someone's perspective on this. I'm sorry this is so long but I needed to get it out.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

No, it is not normal. Your H needs to get sober and attend anger management classes. If your H refuses then look to remove yourself and children from this potential time bomb.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

So, when did you decide that withholding sex was the proper way to punish your husband for all the resentments you have in your marriage? Do you have a GF or relative that suggested it to you?

All you are going to do is have him seek out a divorce lawyer. 

All the planets DO NOT have to align for a couple to have sex, but you do have to be WILLING to put aside all that resentment, in exchange for a few hours of pleasure. 

Lets face it, unless you have an affair partner, you have very little in the "outlet" department. A romantic encounter can patch up a lot of petty quarrels....Instead of avoiding sex, use it as a tool to relax both of you, and defuse a lot of stress....

Don't you think locking yourself in a bedroom is just inviting him to push it in? You know his buttons, fear him when they are pushed, and then push them again...Childish...


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> No, it is not normal. Your H needs to get sober and attend anger management classes. If your H refuses then look to remove yourself and children from this potential time bomb.


:iagree:


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> So, when did you decide that withholding sex was the proper way to punish your husband for all the resentments you have in your marriage? Do you have a GF or relative that suggested it to you?
> 
> All you are going to do is have him seek out a divorce lawyer.
> 
> ...


Um. no.

Remember that piece of advice that pretty much every man gets while he's dating? Something along the lines of "Don't put your d*ck in crazy"?

That advice swings both ways.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
it is absolutely not normal and not acceptable.

My wife doesn't want sex and it is very frustrating to me. The most I have EVER done is to tell her that it is frustrating and making me unhappy. I would NEVER under any condition to something to make her afraid of me.

He can ask you to go to counseling. He can divorce you. But he should never every threaten you.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> So, when did you decide that withholding sex was the proper way to punish your husband for all the resentments you have in your marriage? Do you have a GF or relative that suggested it to you?
> 
> All you are going to do is have him seek out a divorce lawyer.
> 
> ...



Where does the OP state this is punishment? Tired/Stressed/hormonal is what was stated.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Your husband needs help to stop drinking and with his anger issues. Will he be will to attend AA or go to rehab?

You should never have to feel afraid of your husband. Even, when my husband is mad as hell, I am never afraid of him. Now, that he is sober let him know in no uncertain term, that, if he ever threatens you again, you will call the police. That, you are not going to put up with his behavior and mean it.

Next, as a SAHM, you have to start having some money of your own. Maybe, find a part time job. Or, taking money every month and put it aside. My grandmother always says a woman should always have her own money. 

The main issue here is your husband's drinking and you both know that. Time to figure out how you both are going to deal with that.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Woodchuck said:


> So, when did you decide that withholding sex was the proper way to punish your husband for all the resentments you have in your marriage? Do you have a GF or relative that suggested it to you?
> 
> All you are going to do is have him seek out a divorce lawyer.
> 
> ...


She said he was drunk. Who wants to have sex with a drunk man. A man who is always drunk in the evening. No amount of romance is going to get him to stop drinking if that is what he does. When he is finished, he would go on and drink himself to a stupor again.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

even IFFFFFFFF...................she has denied him sex and is using it as a control issue (i'm not saying she is)

that is not an excuse to get violent.

actually, there is NO excuse to get violent ever with the one exception being self defense.

I always remember what my friends Dad told his kid when he was a young buck "Son, the day you ever hit a woman is the day you're no longer a man!".


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

brooklynAnn said:


> She said he was drunk. Who wants to have sex with a drunk man. A man who is always drunk in the evening. No amount of romance is going to get him to stop drinking if that is what he does. When he is finished, he would go on and drink himself to a stupor again.


Has she ever made him understand that less booze might lead to more sex? I know some quite intelligent and sensitive men that might act the same way to an almost sexless marriage.....


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> Where does the OP state this is punishment? Tired/Stressed/hormonal is what was stated.


Having heard EVERY EXCUSE...Let me give an example.....

"I have a gyno apt, and don't want to be all swollen......8 days before the appt.

And yes she had a toxic GF with a cheating husband, and I wound up the victim of a sexless marriage because the GF's hub was a cheater....

Withholding sex out of resentment will solve all her problems....Single moms don't have time for Tired/Stressed/hormones.....


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> Has she ever made him understand that less booze might lead to more sex? I know some quite intelligent and sensitive men that might act the same way to an almost sexless marriage.....


Intelligent and sensitive men do not act this way. Period. Booze is never an answer. Violence is never the answer either.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

HelpPlease1 said:


> I was standing by my side of the bed a couple of minutes later when BAM the door was kicked open. The sound startled me and sent my heart hammering in my chest. He rushed in and said, "I'm feeling violent." And he stood there staring at me.
> 
> All I could say was, "You're feeling violent?"
> 
> ...


Pawing, grabbing and wanting sex is not abusive. Annoying, perhaps, but not abusive.

Now--kicking doors, shouting in your face, threatening to punch you, implied threats to the children, using the children as pawns in an argument...abusive as all hell, and big red flags that it will probably only get worse.

Also, preventing you from calling for help I think could be construed as kidnapping, but I'm not sure.

Your husband is a mean drunk, a threat to your safety, and a piss-poor example for your kids. You need to start making plans to extricate yourself and your children.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> Has she ever made him understand that less booze might lead to more sex? I know some quite intelligent and sensitive men that might act the same way to an almost sexless marriage.....


Read the f'ing thread. You are so offensively off on this one it is beyond ... believing.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I definitely commiserate with your sentiments about your H! Truth be known, I felt the very same way about my RSXW, just didn't trust her as far as I could throw her, but I never thought that she "had it in her" (no pun intended) to ever fool around with other men from her remote past!

But she did! Made me feel like the royal dupe!

No relationship should ever be predicated on the element of fear! You are certainly entitled to free yourself from that absolute hellhole! 

Get yourself out of there ASAP.

No self respecting woman would ever settle for less!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> So, when did you decide that withholding sex was the proper way to punish your husband for all the resentments you have in your marriage? Do you have a GF or relative that suggested it to you?
> 
> All you are going to do is have him seek out a divorce lawyer.
> 
> ...


He makes a verbal threat, says he is feeling violent, is drunk, prevents her from calling help and you think she should not lock a door because it will push buttons? She should have sex to relax them both? 

Are you in the right thread or is this projection?



> I wound up the victim of a sexless marriage because the GF's hub was a cheater....


My bad, already answered. Thanks.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> Having heard EVERY EXCUSE...Let me give an example.....
> 
> "I have a gyno apt, and don't want to be all swollen......8 days before the appt.
> 
> ...


Projecting.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> even IFFFFFFFF...................she has denied him sex and is using it as a control issue (i'm not saying she is)
> 
> that is not an excuse to get violent.
> 
> ...


Locking a mans bedroom door in his face is just about the ultimate in provocation.......I would NOT kick it in........I would use the free time to pack.....

So far this entire thread hears only the woman's side, so all the sympathy is on her side. Playing the devils advocate has brought
all the usual reactions on the wife's side, when it seems the husband is in at least as much pain....Has anyone asked the wife what kind of stress He is under (besides the obvious)....


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> Locking a mans bedroom door in his face is just about the ultimate in provocation.......I would NOT kick it in........I would use the free time to pack.....


OP this poster, and his attitude are dangerous for you. Please be careful of free internet advice and think about the sense of them. Better yet, do you have access to individual counseling?

IMO Alanon would not be bad either?


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Woodchuck said:


> Locking a mans bedroom door in his face is just about the ultimate in provocation.......I would NOT kick it in........I would use the free time to pack.....


Maybe, her husband would do her this favor.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Pack, leave - that's fine, really. If you are unhappy in a relationship, you can leave. 

What I think is completely unacceptable is to threaten (directly, or by implied threat or behavior) your partner. 

If someone does that because they are drunk, then when they sober up and remember, that should be the last drink they ever have.

I don't care what she did or didn't do. There is never an excuse to do more than just leave.







Woodchuck said:


> Locking a mans bedroom door in his face is just about the ultimate in provocation.......I would NOT kick it in........I would use the free time to pack.....


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> *Locking a mans bedroom door* in his face is just about the ultimate in provocation.......I would NOT kick it in........I would use the free time to pack.....


Quit making crap up.


> Anyway, last night we were arguing once again after the kids were in bed. I finally got very mad and said I was done talking to him, *and I stormed upstairs to our room and closed the door.*


Now, I believe she slammed the door, but nowhere in that entire post does she say she initially locked the door or remotely imply it was in his face. She stormed away from him so, that is nowhere near "in a mans face." She locked the BATHROOM door after he made a threat that would have got him arrested and came storming up the stairs.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

You married a HIGH testosterone male (= equally HIGH Sex drive) that has trouble controlling his frustrations, add coming from a dysfunctional family & drinking.. it's a bad bad mix. 

A once a week sex life is never going to satisfy this man, his frustration will continue, resentment plummet.... 

You've got yourself into a bad cycle here.. you do not feel safe with him now.. he has hatchet-ed himself in bringing you closer together for more affection.. 

It's *not* acceptable... but yet.. I can't help but feel for your husband as well.. I'm almost sorry to say that..'

When I was high high drive... I found I had very little patience in this area.. I sympathized with all high drivers, even those who find themselves angry - It can affect our moods BADLY.. some people need sex on a regular consistent basis.. it's part of his emotional needs..

But then he can't expect to treat his wife LIKE THIS -he should have remorse by causing you to literally FEAR being in his presence.. though again.. I can understand his anger & frustration.. he just needs a better way to deal with it.. this is what a good man will do.. an abusive one will be manipulative , and try to control to get what he wants.. 

Which of these fit your husband ...

Abusive Men: Top 10 Signs of an Abusive Man 


> We have broken down the top 10 signs of an abusive man. If your partner exhibits one or more of these signs, it may be time to reevaluate your relationship and seek help or get out.
> 
> *1.* *Jealousy & Possessiveness* – Becomes jealous over your family, friends, co-workers. Tries to isolate you. Views his woman and children as his property instead of as unique individuals. Accuses you of cheating or flirting with other men without cause. Always asks where you’ve been and with whom in an accusatory manner.
> 
> ...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> Locking a mans bedroom door in his face is just about the ultimate in provocation.......I would NOT kick it in........I would use the free time to pack.....
> 
> So far this entire thread hears only the woman's side, so all the sympathy is on her side. Playing the devils advocate has brought
> all the usual reactions on the wife's side, when it seems the husband is in at least as much pain....Has anyone asked the wife what kind of stress He is under (besides the obvious)....


Sir, kicking one's AZZ is not the answer no matter how you cut it. 

The H is feeling no pain. He is drunk, remember? 

So let me get this straight. The H is under some sort of stress. His W is his whipping post for violence and sex to relieve the stress. Am I close?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Problems like yours are never simple. Could you give us a little more information?

Are you having financial problems in your marriage? 

Has your husband been a drinker your entire marriage? 

Is the sex problem new or has it been ongoing for some time? 

Has he been having unusual stress at work.........

This latest incident seems to be an isolated one, can you isolate any factor or factors that escalated it? 

In most marriages, a husband touching his wife in an intimate manner is considered a show of affection, Have you always considered him touching your body unpleasant, or just since you started having these problems? 

Being tired, stressed, and even hormonal are a part of life that every woman has to deal with, especially one with 4 kids.......If your husband took off some of the load, even just a couple of nights a week. would you feel more affectionate towards him?

Would you be willing to end the marriage immediately?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> Sir, kicking one's AZZ is not the answer no matter how you cut it.
> 
> The H is feeling no pain. He is drunk, remember?
> 
> So let me get this straight. The H is under some sort of stress. His W is his whipping post for violence and sex to relieve the stress. Am I close?


No AZZ has been licked, and no one has been laid at this point....

Does your knee always jerk like that?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> So far this entire thread hears only the woman's side, so all the sympathy is on her side. Playing the devils advocate has brought
> all the usual reactions on the wife's side, when it seems the husband is in at least as much pain....Has anyone asked the wife what kind of stress He is under (besides the obvious)....


Leaving out the threats of violence, adding in it is a sexless marriage and altering facts is not playing devil's advocate. People who know how to play devil's advocate take the information given and base a counter argument for the opposite side. If you were, you'd have based your reasoning off of actual things in her OP. 

Right now, you are instigating gender bias not playing devil's advocate. Still, last word to you.




Look OP, a line was crossed. He needs to get counseling for his alcohol and his rage or you leave with the kids.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Woodchuck said:


> Problems like yours are never simple. Could you give us a little more information?
> 
> Are you having financial problems in your marriage?
> 
> ...


Way better response.:smile2: 

OP really needs to evaluate all the above.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> Read the f'ing thread. You are so offensively off on this one it is beyond ... believing.


At this point in this country, there is no "Right to not be offended"...

This couple, after 15 years has a serious ROW over sex and booze.....A man who has been supporting a SAHM and 4 kids and seems to be getting absolutely no affection from his wife will on occasion get upset over constant refusal...

Even with few facts, every other poster on this thread immediately took the side of the wife. I stood up for the husband, and the outcry was almost universal...So much for fairness....

Even in the OP, the wife shows times where the husband was obviously working very hard to restrain himself...

I have posted some questions for the wife, lets gather a few facts.....


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

brooklynAnn said:


> Way better response.:smile2:
> 
> OP really needs to evaluate all the above.


I was trying to point out the almost universal knee jerk reaction in favor of the OP...There are always two sides...


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Leaving out the threats of violence, adding in it is a sexless marriage and altering facts is not playing devil's advocate. People who know how to play devil's advocate take the information given and base a counter argument for the opposite side. If you were, you'd have based your reasoning off of actual things in her OP.
> 
> Right now, you are instigating gender bias not playing devil's advocate. Still, last word to you.
> 
> ...


In a dysfunctional relationship, one or the other partner will continue to escalate the situation till a line is crossed.....It is human nature.....It is conflict seeking behavior...


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> Projecting.


Armchair shrink....:rofl:


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Get yourself along to your nearest Women's Centre and tell them what you've told us here. Next time it might not be the door your abusive H kicks. It might be you or one of your children.

Don't delay, OP, and don't tell him that you're seeking help. These things can escalate very quickly and your H already sounds out of control and rather dangerous. You need professional help and advice.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> In a dysfunctional relationship, one or the other partner will continue to escalate the situation till a line is crossed.....It is human nature.....It is conflict seeking behavior...





Woodchuck said:


> Armchair shrink....:rofl:


Irony.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

nobodyspecial said:


> op this poster, and his attitude are dangerous for you. Please be careful of free internet advice and think about the sense of them. Better yet, do you have access to individual counseling?
> 
> Imo alanon would not be bad either?


i have given her no advice.....


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> Locking a mans bedroom door in his face is just about the ultimate in provocation.......I would NOT kick it in........I would use the free time to pack.....
> 
> So far this entire thread hears only the woman's side, so all the sympathy is on her side. *Playing the devils advocate* has brought
> all the usual reactions on the wife's side, when it seems the husband is in at least as much pain....Has anyone asked the wife what kind of stress He is under (besides the obvious)....


it's ok to play devils advocate. Maybe there is his side to the story.
maybe we're not getting the whole truth here (again, not saying so, just maybe). maybe he has been pushed as far as he can stand. and by the way, iv'e been there too.
i had an abusive crazy ex. that denied me sex. believe me, i know.

BUT. lets be clear. no matter what, his violence is a sickness.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

No it is not.
I want my wife to respect me but not to fear me. 

My wife is influenced by some toxic friends who tell her how they control their husbands. She tried it on me, many years ago. I told her that we don't control each other, that is not how a husband-wife relationship should be.

So the answer is no.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

Op, you need to sit him down and let him know you will not tolerate his behavior. If the drinking caused him to act like that, then you tell him no more drinking. And if he does it again, then pack your things and leave.

I put up with that sort of thing for 20 years whenever my H drank too much liquor. It will only get worse, believe me.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> it's ok to play devils advocate. Maybe there is his side to the story.
> maybe we're not getting the whole truth here (again, not saying so, just maybe). maybe he has been pushed as far as he can stand. and by the way, iv'e been there too.
> i had an abusive crazy ex. that denied me sex. believe me, i know.
> 
> BUT. lets be clear. no matter what, his violence is a sickness.


 One time in 15 years is not pathological....

"maybe he has been pushed as far as he can stand. and by the way, iv'e been there too." 

Thank you for acknowledging that a usually rational man can be pushed to his limits...From what I have read, the OP's husband is not a wife beater or violent by nature....But is under a lot of pressure...


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

nirvana said:


> No it is not.
> I want my wife to respect me but not to fear me.
> 
> My wife is influenced by some toxic friends who tell her how they control their husbands. She tried it on me, many years ago. I told her that we don't control each other, that is not how a husband-wife relationship should be.
> ...


How did your wife respond to your statement" Was there a noticeable change in attitude? Toxic friends are seldom mentioned except in "Coping with infidelity" I think it is pervasive, but seldom discovered or mentioned as an issue....


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Woodchuck said:


> So, when did you decide that withholding sex was the proper way to punish your husband for all the resentments you have in your marriage? Do you have a GF or relative that suggested it to you?
> 
> All you are going to do is have him seek out a divorce lawyer.
> 
> ...


^^^^ This is the language of an abuser. ^^^^ It puts the reason for your husband's abuse back on you. Your husband is a grown man who is responsible for his emotions. You did not invite him to break through the door. To say so is furthering abuse.



Woodchuck said:


> Has she ever made him understand that less booze might lead to more sex? I know some quite intelligent and sensitive men that might act the same way to an almost sexless marriage.....


Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Sensitive maybe, if a man is overly sensitive and thinks he can make his wife do what she doesn't want to do. Forcing sex is called rape.


Woodchuck said:


> At this point in this country, there is no "Right to not be offended"...
> 
> This couple, after 15 years has a serious ROW over sex and booze.....A man who has been supporting a SAHM and 4 kids and seems to be getting absolutely no affection from his wife will on occasion get upset over constant refusal...
> 
> ...


He kicked open the door, which is physical violence. He then threatened to be physically violent with her. When she picked up the phone, he threatened her with physical violence. There is no excuse for that.
Clearly there are problems in this marriage, but they cannot be solved with violence or alcoholism. Until or unless this husband gets himself under control, there will be no resolution to any of this.
My recommendation would be to go to a women’s shelter and discuss your options with them. They are training in these matters and can help you form a workable plan for you and your children.
Do not alert your husband in advance that you will call 911. He will use this information to protect himself, which may end you up in very bad shape. Do you have a home phone – landline? If so, 911 can find you, even if you don’t say a word. You could also tell him that you think you should order pizza so you can sit down and talk this over, then call 911 and any other four numbers. If you start with 911, the call will go to 911. When they answer, order pizza, give them your address. They will know exactly what is going on an come to your aid.
You should not be afraid of your husband. He is supposed to protect you, not make you feel you need to be protected from him.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> How did your wife respond to your statement" Was there a noticeable change in attitude? Toxic friends are seldom mentioned except in "Coping with infidelity" I think it is pervasive, but seldom discovered or mentioned as an issue....


Not very well. This was some years ago when she was star struck by other people and thought that everyone was lucky and she wasn't. Nothing I did could convince her. She thought all her friend's husbands were the best and her's wasn't. I am careful with money and am not a flashy spender and don't spend to show off unlike these guys. Now they are all in debt and I am not. She sees things clearly now, but will not acknowledge it. 
Her toxic friend is not kind of like a laughing stock because all the other ladies have seen through the charade.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

nirvana said:


> Not very well. This was some years ago when she was star struck by other people and thought that everyone was lucky and she wasn't. Nothing I did could convince her. She thought all her friend's husbands were the best and her's wasn't. I am careful with money and am not a flashy spender and don't spend to show off unlike these guys. Now they are all in debt and I am not. She sees things clearly now, but will not acknowledge it.
> Her toxic friend is not kind of like a laughing stock because all the other ladies have seen through the charade.


I am frugal with money, but my wife always was too....I decided early on to buy her everything she wanted, and so far I have....It avoided a lot of conflict, and she did not spend abusively....We will be married 50 years Feb 2....

Traded her Chevy in for a new Lincoln last year....She likes the car.....As I told the bug spray guy last month...She called you sweetheart more times in an hour than she has me in a year, and I bought her a Lincoln....

Don't expect more sex, no matter how much you spend...


Her love language is Acts of service, and with my blown up knee, ain't gonna happen....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Woodchuck said:


> I am frugal with money, but my wife always was too....I decided early on to buy her everything she wanted, and so far I have....It avoided a lot of conflict, and she did not spend abusively....We will be married 50 years Feb 2....
> 
> Traded her Chevy in for a new Lincoln last year....She likes the car.....As I told the bug spray guy last month...She called you sweetheart more times in an hour than she has me in a year, and I bought her a Lincoln....
> 
> ...


This thread is NOT about you.

The thread jack stops now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

HelpPlease1,

I hope that the posts on here supporting abuse do not chase you away. I would delete them except that so many people quoted them that I'd have to delete most of the posts and some of them addressed things that I think are helpful to you.

There is no excuse at all for your husband threatening you with violence. That is considered abuse. I do not care what you did or did not do, it's not acceptable at all.

You should never, ever, be afraid of your husband.

Does he ever blow up at your children in a frightening way?

From the sounds of it, your husband has a drinking problem. That has to dealt with before your marriage can be fixed... if you want to fix it.

It does sound like you need to start doing things so that you can leave if you feel you need to. Get back into the work force. Open a bank account in your name only and start putting money in it.

I suggest that you call the domestic abuse help line 1 800 799 7233. Ask them for places near you that provide counseling and support for you a person in an abusive relationship. You need to get into counseling.

I also suggest that you start attending Al Anon meetings. This will help you learn to deal with your husband's alcoholism and not get more and more sucked into being codependent.


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## HelpPlease1 (Oct 14, 2015)

Wow, I wasn't able to get back on here until just now....Looks like I missed a lot! Thank you so much to those of you with supportive comments. To clear up a couple of points, when I went upstairs after we were arguing, I didn't lock the bedroom door and I didn't even slam it (I didn't want to wake up the kids). I just quietly closed it. We sleep with our door closed, so I wasn't trying to make a point or anything, I was just going to bed. There was no need for him to kick it down except to scare me. Also, our marriage is not (or was not) sexless. We had been having sex what I considered regularly, but not regularly enough for him.

The whole sex thing is a completely separate issue for me. I agree with those of you who said that there is no excuse for him to have scared me the way that he did. That is what concerns me right now.

He came home from work late tonight in his workout clothes, and barely said a word to me all night. I barely spoke to him either because I just don't know what to say (and the kids were around most of the time). Anything I did say he just answered in monosyllables, avoiding eye contact. I don't know what was going on in his head. Is he trying to rewrite everything in his head so he can blame me for it? Is he angry at me somehow (he sure as hell had better not be), or is he ashamed? I should have brought up the whole thing again tonight but part of me is scared of a repeat of last night, plus I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do. I noticed that he was drinking a beer but seemed to limit himself to just one, and he went to bed early. This morning he said he's going to cut out wine and liquor. He's made many, many attempts to cut back on his drinking in the past and they have all failed. I can only hope to God this is a wake-up call for him. I think he needs to stop drinking altogether. I'm considering telling him that tomorrow.

He tends to get extremely defensive whenever I confront him about something. His typical reaction whenever I bring up something he has done that I didn't like is to say, "Fine then, just go ahead and leave me." He has said in the past that he doesn't believe in counseling, but I can try again.

I've been feeling so physically ill all day. I just can't believe this is happening to me. I guess I'm still in shock. Honestly, my self-esteem was very low when I met him and we had issues in our relationship early on with him saying very mean (probably verbally abusive) things to me. If I'd had better self-esteem I'm sure I would NEVER have married him. But I really thought this was just the best I was going to get. Still, I did care about him and we had some good times together, and I never dreamed that someday I would actually be afraid of him hurting me.

I'm starting to see pieces of the puzzle coming together, things I just didn't want to recognize as warning signs over the years. He can be very irritable and moody (which I think is largely due to his drinking problem). He can be very short-tempered with the kids. He has spanked them, but rarely. However, he often raises his voice at them to the point that it scares them. I feel like he sometimes uses his large size to really intimidate them. He has always been very critical of my family and my friends, to the point that he seems jealous of my relationships with them. He constantly suspects me of cheating even though I have never given him any reason to think I would.

Right now, I can't see how I can ever trust him or feel safe around him again. Any time we have a disagreement, I'm going to have to hold back out of fear that he's going to snap once again. I'm going to live in terror that he could snap on the kids. This is just not going to work.

I feel like the best time to talk to him is usually in the mornings in the short amount of time between the older kids going to school and him leaving for work, because I know he isn't drinking. I think tomorrow morning I'm going to tell him that in order for our marriage to continue, he needs to stop drinking, and I can help him to find help if he needs it (which I know he does). I've tried before to get him to give up drinking but he has said he enjoys it too much to completely give it up. I remember telling him one time that I felt like something horrible was going to have to happen for him to realize he needs to stop. Well, it has happened. So if he doesn't want to stop now...then I have to leave. Don't I? Or at least make plans to leave. I think I will call that abuse hotline tomorrow if he refuses to quit drinking.

I feel so crushed. Despite our problems, so much of our life is good: our kids, a lot of our memories....I'm devastated to think that it could all be falling apart. Completely devastated. If anyone out there is religious, please say a prayer for me and our kids.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> He came home from work late tonight in his workout clothes, and barely said a word to me all night. I barely spoke to him either because I just don't know what to say (and the kids were around most of the time). Anything I did say he just answered in monosyllables, avoiding eye contact. I don't know what was going on in his head. Is he trying to rewrite everything in his head so he can blame me for it? Is he angry at me somehow (he sure as hell had better not be), or is he ashamed?


He's giving you what's known as the silent treatment. At this point you're expected to tiptoe around him in such a way that he can 'forgive' you for 'making him mad.' After that, the 'honeymoon phase' can commence (usually lasts 2 weeks or less) - quickly followed by another meltdown by him.

Please seek the help of your local Women's Centre, OP. You truly don't have to live like this. In the meantime, document everything he says and does and keep the record well hidden from him.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

He needs to get to a anti-violence program right away. The violence only gets harder to control as stress and frustration mount. He'll need someone skilled that he can trust, to teach him techniques to control that anger and thus the violence. Before he does something he'll regret for the rest of his life (a violence arrest really kills your career, as does "Buddy" your cell buddy , but at least he'll get lots of "sex").

Don't put up with. Don't mistake the quiet times for a cure.

Yes, it is a two person problem in the relationship, and you'll possibly have to change things you're doing (if your's is a relationship with two people in it...).
Sure you don't always have to put out - but does that means he always gets to be turned down? Is that equal? Or have you taken all the control of the sex and bedroom from him, if so, what are you giving back in return to the relationship?

Yes it is very hard when you're a guy and randy as heck. Yes, lying next to the woman you like makes a guy randy as heck - remember that is one of the things that you liked about him ! That he wanted you so much !
Do you expect that to just turn off when it's inconvenient? If he does turn it off (or gets the need satisfied in other ways, would that suit you? chances are no.) 

Is satisfying the urge going to fix it? no - it will increase his Teststerone levels and build a endorphin habit.

Wish I could give you a satisfactory solution.
I wish I could have given me a satisfactory solution.
Best I can think of is a separate single bed, because as long as hot warm female smelling special person is there, he's going to be raving dog.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> You married a HIGH testosterone male (= equally HIGH Sex drive) that has trouble controlling his frustrations, add coming from a dysfunctional family & drinking.. it's a bad bad mix.
> 
> A once a week sex life is never going to satisfy this man, his frustration will continue, resentment plummet....
> 
> ...


I think this was one of the only posts i agreed with.
It really sounds like the two of you have put yourself in a cycle. He wants sex every day, you don't. So he smothers you, and grabs at you, and you naturally push him away more. He's frustrated, and self medicating with alcohol. You hate the drinking. The alcohol is pushing all of his frustrated feelings to the surface and he pushes you away more with the argument you described. He conducted himself terribly, and made a mistake. Now he's still frustrated, and you want sex even less. And he's not communicating with you, and you are wondering why, but not initiating the conversation. Which is reasonable, because he scared you and should apologize.

Someone is going to have to give. I think it should be him with the drinking. And he needs to calmly use his words and lay out his frustrations instead of getting drunk and losing his s**t. But if nothing happens on your end, and you go back to having the regularly scheduled sex that prompted this whole thing to spin out in the first place, then i think it will all just happen again. Vicious cycle.

I have empathy for his frustration.
But he is definitely to blame. He has worked himself into this with His boorish, neanderthal behavior, and kept it going with the alcohol.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Your H is sexually frustrated add his drinking and violent temper to the mix is just a disaster waiting to happen. Of course he minimises it the next day and tries to smooth over what he has done. This is NOT normal. He needs help with both his drinking and his anger issues. It is perfectly understandable that you have no desire to have sex with a man who 'manhandles' you and demands sex when he is drunk, anybody on this forum is a fool for saying otherwise.

Would i be safe in saying, you love your H and would have no problems sleeping with him, if he didn't drink, so it is the main problem and the accompanying aggression. 

You have to start recording him, and play it back to him so that he can hear the extent of what he is doing, alcohol will make him conveniently forget.

He has to go to AA now and deal with the drinking and then anger management - it is likely the alcohol precipitates the aggressiveness and reduces his capacity to have self control. This is totally unacceptable esp in a house with small kids.

You have to stick to your guns on this and tell him he has to do this otherwise he must move out until he takes actions. He may very well promise you the world and do nothing - large majority of times it is like that. 

Do not carry this burden alone, please tell your parents, siblings and ask for their support. You should also consider going to Al-Anon, they will help you to come up with a way of handling your emotions and your boundaries when it comes to him.

Please do not think that this will get better, it will for a while and it will happen again and again and your tolerance levels will increase and it will become the new norm. By the end of many years of this abuse you will be drained. Please do not do that to yourself or your kids.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Cosmos said:


> He's giving you what's known as the silent treatment. At this point you're expected to tiptoe around him in such a way that he can 'forgive' you for 'making him mad.' After that, the 'honeymoon phase' can commence (usually lasts 2 weeks or less) - quickly followed by another meltdown by him.
> 
> Please seek the help of your local Women's Centre, OP. You truly don't have to live like this. In the meantime, document everything he says and does and keep the record well hidden from him.


Cause nothing says I trust you like taking it all down in writing for later, and ganging up some allies on the side.
If you're going to go that round, just leave now.

as for the not making him mad... that works on both sides. things he can't say that make her mad, or sad, or silent, or *****y, etc.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

sixty-eight said:


> I think this was one of the only posts i agreed with.
> It really sounds like the two of you have put yourself in a cycle. He wants sex every day, you don't. So he smothers you, and grabs at you, and you naturally push him away more. He's frustrated, and self medicating with alcohol. You hate the drinking. The alcohol is pushing all of his frustrated feelings to the surface and he pushes you away more with the argument you described. He conducted himself terribly, and made a mistake. Now he's still frustrated, and you want sex even less. And he's not communicating with you, and you are wondering why, but not initiating the conversation. Which is reasonable, because he scared you and should apologize.
> 
> Someone is going to have to give. I think it should be him with the drinking. And he needs to calmly use his words and lay out his frustrations instead of getting drunk and losing his s**t. But if nothing happens on your end, and you go back to having the regularly scheduled sex that prompted this whole thing to spin out in the first place, then i think it will all just happen again. Vicious cycle.
> ...


Whilst I understand the HD thing, what about "self control' , FFS, men (or women) are not animals!!! 

This is taking the accountability away from him, and placing the blame on her. NO, she did not cause his drinking or his anger, that is 100% on him!
A grown a$$ man would talk in a civilised manner to her.She is taking care of 4 little ones, runs the household, etc. She is hurting, scared with young kids and you are saying she started the cycle by not letting him get his rocks off, pluz!!! :scratchhead:


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

aine said:


> Your H is sexually frustrated add his drinking and violent temper to the mix is just a disaster waiting to happen. Of course he minimises it the next day and tries to smooth over what he has done. This is NOT normal.


I would heartly disagree (with your terminology). 

This indeed is very normal.
He has very real needs, he has emotions, he can be hurt - he's not allowed to turn to anyone else for help (and I _know_ how useless counselors are for help in those stages).

Where do you think he's going to start breaking if he's locked in the corner, frustrated, lonely, no one who will communication with him, just his pain and frustration to deal with by himself?
Who is supposed to be there for him emotionally? committed relationship remember - gone are the free of problem moments of the fantasy dating - now is the time they have to be there to help the other person.

he gets shoved in the corner with no way to deal. Entirely normal to eventually break - and that's what happens. like clockwork.

Don't believe me? count off his support network.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Cause nothing says I trust you like taking it all down in writing for later, and ganging up some allies on the side.
> If you're going to go that round, just leave now.
> 
> as for the not making him mad... that works on both sides. things he can't say that make her mad, or sad, or silent, or *****y, etc.


Yes, she should record what is going on, because he will not remember the next day, he is too drunk or selectively chooses not to cause he knows its wrong. 

What trust? Trust is already broken when you kick in doors, threaten to wake up little kids, threaten to hit someone, etc. He is a POS to do that. Wonder would he be such a big man if he was faced with another man his size with an ax to grind, I guess not, it is easy to do that to a smaller woman and little kids. Give me a break!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

spotthedeaddog said:


> I would heartly disagree (with your terminology).
> 
> This indeed is very normal.
> He has very real needs, he has emotions, he can be hurt - he's not allowed to turn to anyone else for help (and I _know_ how useless counselors are for help in those stages).
> ...


You know from experience is it? Ever heard of SELF CONTROL! No self respecting woman wants sex with a man who treats her like that. Stop projecting your own personal stuff on this scenario. What he is doing is wrong. When he eventually hits her, then will it be wrong? Or he is justified because he is frustrated and not getting HIS needs met? What about her needs?

You talk about communication, I don't see him communicating much, just getting angry, kicking in doors, etc that is not communication. He has to be responsible for his actions too


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

aine said:


> Whilst I understand the HD thing, what about "self control' , FFS, men (or women) are not animals!!!
> 
> This is taking the accountability away from him, and placing the blame on her. NO, she did not cause his drinking or his anger, that is 100% on him!
> A grown a$$ man would talk in a civilised manner to her.She is taking care of 4 little ones, runs the household, etc. She is hurting, scared with young kids and you are saying she started the cycle by not letting him get his rocks off, pluz!!! :scratchhead:


" (or women) are not animals!!! "

Tell it to the biological clock, or the MLC.
sure they "not animals" when it's a female being wronged.

It's not acceptable, but it's normal, inevitable even given the pattern of their behaviour, and no modern civilised answer to fix it.

Perhaps she should just "not be animalistic" and make her self want it. <- sarcasm


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
A bad or absent sex life (for any reason) can make a HD person very unhappy and frustrated - I know this from personal experience.

The issue here though is that no matter how frustrated someone is, threatening violence is wrong.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> This indeed is very normal.


It's normal for a man to threaten to hurt his wife?


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

aine said:


> Whilst I understand the HD thing, what about "self control' , FFS, men (or women) are not animals!!!
> 
> This is taking the accountability away from him, and placing the blame on her. NO, she did not cause his drinking or his anger, that is 100% on him!
> A grown a$$ man would talk in a civilised manner to her.She is taking care of 4 little ones, runs the household, etc. She is hurting, scared with young kids and you are saying she started the cycle by not letting him get his rocks off, pluz!!! :scratchhead:


oh no no no. if that's what you got out of what i said, then you probably need to read it again.

I said it was all his fault. a few times. I called his behavior boorish and neanderthal like. I said that he has dug himself into the situation further with alcoholism and failures to communicate.

i simply empathized because i have seen quite a few posters start with:
"We had been arguing for the past few days because he really wants to have sex and I've been too tired/stressed out/hormonal"
and 
"We had been having sex what I considered regularly, but not regularly enough for him."
and then get blindsided when the other person is frustrated out of their mind.

I can see both sides of it, because i am the high drive partner with a low drive spouse, and i am also a SAHM of 2.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> I would heartly disagree (with your terminology).
> 
> This indeed is very normal.
> He has very real needs, he has emotions, he can be hurt - he's not allowed to turn to anyone else for help (and I _know_ how useless counselors are for help in those stages).
> ...


Wow, talk about making excuses for threatening to hurt his wife!!!

He's a big boy. She has apparently asked him to go to counseling so that they can get help. She's asked him to stop drinking.

Why do you assume that he has not one in his life that he can talk to?

He is hardly shoved in a corner with no way to deal. He has CHOSEN to be a drunk who threatens to hurt his wife.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> This morning he said he's going to cut out wine and liquor. *He's made many, many attempts to cut back on his drinking in the past and they have all failed.* I can only hope to God this is a wake-up call for him. I think he needs to stop drinking altogether. I'm considering telling him that tomorrow.


 The drinking problem only exaggerates his behavior, he is a slave to the bottle , his history shows he can't quit... I've seen how alcohol can turn a life into a living hell.. My mother was married to an alcoholic (not my father), she loved the man , what he was/could have been when he wasn't drinking...he never quit, he died with a blown up liver....alcohol steals so much.. your hopes as a family, his personality, any harmony in the home... Because of her life, I would never consider a man who drank.. 



> He tends to get extremely defensive whenever I confront him about something. His typical reaction whenever I bring up something he has done that I didn't like is to say, "Fine then, just go ahead and leave me." *He has said in the past that he doesn't believe in counseling,* but I can try again.


 The problem with dealing with a man who can't admit his faults (his defensiveness when you try to talk to him)... his unwillingness to get help, feeling he is above that sort of thing...

I was going to say if he sees the seriousness of loosing his family before him..... he may change his tune, if he is sober enough.... but you have to tread lightly with someone who wants Control and feels he's always had it...what he may be capable of (angry & drunk) -if you even tried to warn him you would leave & take the children ...



> He has spanked them, but rarely. However, he often raises his voice at them to the point that it scares them. I feel like he sometimes uses his large size to really intimidate them. He has always been very critical of my family and my friends, to the point that he seems jealous of my relationships with them. He constantly suspects me of cheating even though I have never given him any reason to think I would.


Critical of family & friends, shows jealousy...Have you felt he wants to isolate you ? If so, these would be warning signs of an abuser.. his accusing you of cheating... hmmm - do you think he has? 



> Honestly, my self-esteem was very low when I met him and we had issues in our relationship early on with him saying very mean (probably verbally abusive) things to me. If I'd had better self-esteem I'm sure I would NEVER have married him. But I really thought this was just the best I was going to get.


 This is very sad... my mother had low self esteem when she ran off with her alcoholic husband also. I always wanted more for her...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sixty-eight said:


> oh no no no. if that's what you got out of what i said, then you probably need to read it again.
> 
> I said it was all his fault. a few times. I called his behavior boorish and neanderthal like. I said that he has dug himself into the situation further with alcoholism and failures to communicate.
> 
> ...


I've also been the HD with a spouse who is ND/LD. I get that that's an issue.

But at this point there are things that are much more troublesome then whether or not there is enough sex going on in the relationship.

A threat to harm his wife has to be taken seriously. His drinking is also a HUGE problem. Those have to be dealt with before this marriage can be repaired.

The OP is now afraid of her husband for good reason.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sixty-eight said:


> oh no no no. if that's what you got out of what i said, then you probably need to read it again.
> 
> I said it was all his fault. a few times. I called his behavior boorish and neanderthal like. I said that he has dug himself into the situation further with alcoholism and failures to communicate.
> 
> ...


I expected to have others blow my post out of proportion also... We know what we meant.. believe me... I'd be the absolute last woman on earth to put up with an alcoholic or an abuser....so No, I'd never condone it.. but I also wouldn't stay with a low driver.... I'd have to get out!


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I've also been the HD with a spouse who is ND/LD. I get that that's an issue.
> 
> But at this point there are things that are much more troublesome then whether or not there is enough sex going on in the relationship.
> 
> ...


*I said it was all his fault. a few times. I called his behavior boorish and neanderthal like. I said that he has dug himself into the situation further with alcoholism and failures to communicate.*

yes, i empathized with someone who i also considered not wrong in his frustration, but totally wrong in his process.

The poster's husband needs help for his alcoholism, and his temper. It is his own fault that he wasn't getting enough sex, and his actions will probably result in less sex, so not only is he wrong, but counterproductive.

i don't expect her to have sex with him now, nor do i think sex is the answer to their current problem.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

HelpPlease1,

Could you tell us a bit more about your marriage so that we can get more complete picture?

Up till the that recent fight, did the two of you spend much time doing things together, just the two of you? How many hours a week do you two spend together doing things that you both enjoy?

What would you say is the average amount of sex that you two have? About how many times a week?

How long has this alcohol and anger issue been going on?

Do you have family and friends that you do things with? What about him? What is his social circle like?

How many hours a week break do you get from taking care of children and the household?

How many hours a week does your husband typically work?
.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sexless marriage vs. High drive and frustration is a poor correlation.
Weekly sex is not a sexless marriage. While it may not be enough for some one high drive, lets not pretend being drunk every night makes anyone amorous. If frustration leads to kicking in of a door, plus verbal and non-verbal threats then there is something really wrong with a person.

If he kicked the door and left, sat in his car, slammed the door when he left, cussed her out and about a hundred different things I'd be defending him.

Making threats and using the children as manipulation, don't care if it is once, is the sign of a dangerous situation.

How was your sex life at the start of the marriage?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Cause nothing says I trust you like taking it all down in writing for later, and ganging up some allies on the side.
> If you're going to go that round, just leave now.
> 
> as for the not making him mad... that works on both sides. things he can't say that make her mad, or sad, or silent, or *****y, etc.


There's a _very_ good reason for victims of domestic violence documenting the abuse, and has nothing to do with "ganging up some allies on the side." It's called protection and safeguarding one's own survival...

That the OP needs to leave is, IME, a given.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

The issues here has nothing to do with whether the OP was/is meeting her husband’s needs. Obviously he is not meeting her needs either. That’s not the issue. Adults are responsible for how we express emotions. Using violence and threats to get what we want or think we need is unacceptable. When we get into what HelpPlease1 may or may not have been doing, it clouds that one key issue – that her husband has turned violent. This is the issue that needs to be addressed, what to do about being a sahm mother with four young children, no job, and a violent and alcoholic husband. That is the question.
HelpPlease1, you cannot change her husband or save him. It is your responsibility to make sure your children’s and your needs are being met. You all have a need for a safe, nurturing home. If your husband is not going to participate in providing that, you are left to you own to do it.
This might be helpful to you. It gives some information for public assistance. Can I Get Government Benefits if My Husband & I Are Separated? | eHow
At the moment that might be your best option until you can get on your feet.
Have you called a domestic violence shelter yet?


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## HelpPlease1 (Oct 14, 2015)

Thank you to everyone again for your input. My husband had a drinking problem before I ever met him. He has always drunk heavily throughout the time we have known each other, whether we were getting along well and having a lot of sex, or not. He drinks when he is very happy and he drinks when he is very sad, and everything in between. He just drinks. We have had a lot of ups and downs throughout our relationship, just like everyone else. I am not a perfect wife and there is certainly work to be done on both sides of our marriage. 

But I refuse to accept responsibility for his drinking (which has definitely had a negative impact on our sex life) or his violent behavior. And none of our other issues can be addressed until we address these.

I talked to him this morning for over an hour. After he walked the older kids to the bus stop, I put on a video for our 2-year-old, sat down at the kitchen table, and asked him to sit with me so we could talk.

He immediately looked panicked and said, "What, you're going to say you're leaving me?"

I said, "I just want to talk." He reluctantly sat down.

Here is the gist of what I said: "I've been thinking a lot about what happened the other night. I was very scared of you. I don't ever want to feel that way again. I don't want to walk away from our marriage, but at the same time, I have to feel safe again if it is going to continue. And the only way that will happen is if you stop drinking. I'm asking you to stop drinking completely. I cannot ever again be around you when you're drinking."

As I had expected, he immediately became defensive and said, "You're giving me an ultimatum. I don't do ultimatums."

I said, "I'm telling you what I need to feel safe." (I repeated these words several times throughout the conversation.)

At one point, he said he doesn't know if he can stay with someone who would MAKE him act the way he did the other night.

I said, "No. I refuse to accept responsibility for your behavior. Nothing I could do would justify the way you acted."

He admitted I was right and apologized again.

He brought up his frustrations with our marriage and I said that we have our issues, but his drinking is the root cause or a complicating factor in all of them. I said we need to take care of this problem before we can begin to work on anything else. I said this is a crisis in our marriage, and it has to be a turning point if we are going to continue.

I told him how it always makes me feel when he's drinking, that he becomes another person (even if he isn't violent at the time) and it makes it difficult to even discuss any of the problems we're having. He mentioned feeling depressed and I said the alcohol only contributes to that, and that we can work through his problems together if he only takes this opportunity to stop drinking.

I mentioned how a few years ago, we had a discussion about his drinking and how much it was bothering me, and for a few days it actually looked like he was going to stop completely. I broke down as I told him, "I have never felt so much love for you as I did then. And then you started drinking again, and I was crushed."

He hugged me then and said he hadn't known at the time how much it had upset me. I said I had been trying to figure out how to deal with it. (My parents have never drank because they both had alcoholic parents, and alcohol was a taboo subject growing up. I realize now that all these years I've been avoiding addressing the issue partly because of that. I think I just wanted to pretend it wasn't a problem.)

He said he doesn't feel like I love him. I said that a lot of women would have left immediately after what happened the other night, but I am still here because I do love him and I want our family to stay together. He said I'll never be able to get over what happened, that I'll always hold it against him. I said, "No, if you quit drinking it will mean so much to me--that you care enough about our family not to throw everything away. I will be so proud of you."

He waffled for a long time about quitting. First he refused to quit at all, then he just wanted to drink beer. I repeated that I will never again feel safe around him when he is drinking. He said he still wants to drink socially, like going out with his coworkers for a beer occasionally after work. I wanted him to stop completely, but finally we agreed that he can drink socially, just never again in the house, and never around me or the kids.

I'm worried that this loophole will cause problems in the future. Right now he only goes out with friends or coworkers once a month at the most, and he doesn't seem to drink very much. I will have to make sure that doesn't change.

I told him that he might need help to do this, that there is no shame in admitting he needs help from someone, and that I can help him to find help. He still thinks he can do it on his own. We will see.

He wanted to finish the alcohol left in the house. I said no, we had to throw it away, and we had to do it now. He was running late to work and he told me to throw it out myself. I agreed but said this needs to be a decision we make together. I said, "So I have your permission to throw it away?" He said yes.

Our conversation ended well, with him saying he doesn't want us to split apart. After he left for work, I filled up two big black trash bags with beer, wine, champagne, liquor, and mixing supplies for making drinks. I drove to a store and left it all in a dumpster. I didn't want it anywhere on our property.

I feel very relieved. I'm so glad I finally said everything I wanted to say to him, in no uncertain terms. It was years' worth of stress and anxiety, a lot of feelings I have been pushing down for a very, very long time.

I'm nervous about the future, worried at whether he will keep to his word. I'm cautiously optimistic. If there are any signs of him going back to his old ways, I won't hesitate to bring in outside help.

This whole incident has brought me so much clarity and made me realize what a huge problem his drinking is for our entire family. If we can make it through this, I believe it will make us so much stronger.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

HelpPlease1, your conversation was a good start, but you are going to have to stick to your guns regarding his drinking / abuse to the very letter. He will view any leniency by you as weakness and the abuse will get worse.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I applaud you for the way you have handled this today. But, be vigilant. Watch for signs of hidden drinking. It apparent he is addicted to alcohol. Cold turkey may not go as easy as some would hope. In helping your H, be there for him and support him as best you can with giving up the alcohol.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You did very well in how you spoke to him. However, he has not admitted that he is addicted to alcohol and that he has to give it up completely. Trying to handle quitting alone, without a support system, and the help of those who know what to do, will be next to impossible. This is not meant to discourage you, but to help you recognize the steps that will help you.
I recommend:
* You go to a shelter and speak to them about making a plan. If you don't end up needing it - great. If you do, then you will be prepared.
* You find paying work. Build a business or find a job that you can do and still care for your children. It is far better to be in a position of strength rather than a position of weakness. Decisions are best made from strength rather than from desperation.
* You attend Alanon.
* You start reading about co-dependency. The first book I'd recommend is Codependent No More http://www.amazon.com/Codependent-N...444934543&sr=8-1&keywords=codependent+no+more, followed by Facing Codependency http://www.amazon.com/Facing-Codepe...444934570&sr=8-1&keywords=facing+codependency .


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sexless marriage vs. High drive and frustration is a poor correlation.
> Weekly sex is not a sexless marriage. While it may not be enough for some one high drive, lets not pretend being drunk every night makes anyone amorous. If frustration leads to kicking in of a door, plus verbal and non-verbal threats then there is something really wrong with a person.
> 
> If he kicked the door and left, sat in his car, slammed the door when he left, cussed her out and about a hundred different things I'd be defending him.
> ...


^^This. 100% agree.

OP, your last post doesn't show any insight at all on your husbands part, to how he contributed to the situation. Just more defensiveness and blame shifting.

My husband would be absolutely DEVASTATED if I was frightened of him. It would break his heart, and he'd do anything, whatever he needed to do to right the situation.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> Has she ever made him understand that less booze might lead to more sex? I know some quite intelligent and sensitive men that might act the same way to an almost sexless marriage.....


It's not her responsibility.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

HelpPlease1 said:


> I've been feeling so physically ill all day. I just can't believe this is happening to me. I guess I'm still in shock. Honestly, my self-esteem was very low when I met him and we had issues in our relationship early on with him saying very mean (probably verbally abusive) things to me. If I'd had better self-esteem I'm sure I would NEVER have married him. But I really thought this was just the best I was going to get. Still, I did care about him and we had some good times together, and I never dreamed that someday I would actually be afraid of him hurting me.
> 
> I'm starting to see pieces of the puzzle coming together, things I just didn't want to recognize as warning signs over the years. He can be very irritable and moody (which I think is largely due to his drinking problem). He can be very short-tempered with the kids. He has spanked them, but rarely. However, he often raises his voice at them to the point that it scares them. I feel like he sometimes uses his large size to really intimidate them. He has always been very critical of my family and my friends, to the point that he seems jealous of my relationships with them. He constantly suspects me of cheating even though I have never given him any reason to think I would.
> 
> ...



Prayers for all your family are definitely heading your way. But please help yourself and your kids by calling a shelter and the numbers and links given to you. I work in a school that services three shelters. I see and deal with situations like yours way too often. 

Your husband is an abusive addict! He needs help or he will cause even more serious damage to his family. You had a great talk with him, but that is a tad too late. He can't kick the habit with just Your help. Please put on your momma bear hat and protect yourself and your 4 babies. 

Get a plan started because you will probably need to separate from him if your family has a fair chance of winning over his addiction. You have school age children; they know exactly what is going on in their home. Their silence speaks volumes as to their love, strength, and maturity regarding the situation at home. That's why Child protective Services has not been seeing them in school, or knocking at your door. They are eating everything up to protect the adults that should protect them! 

Please get help ASAP. 

Bibi


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## HelpPlease1 (Oct 14, 2015)

Just as an update....It's been four days now since I confronted my husband about his drinking. Fortunately, he hasn't drank since then. This is the longest in our entire relationship (15 years) that he has gone without drinking.

It's been amazing living with a sober person. It's so different. I never imagined how different it would be. I realize now that I was carrying around an extreme amount of resentment toward my husband because of the drinking. Now I feel so much more affectionate toward him. We've been having a lot more sex and it's actually MUCH better than ever before (let's just say I now know for a fact that alcohol restricts blood flow...LOL). It's just so nice to come downstairs after putting the kids to bed and be able to sit down on the couch next to him and feel genuinely relaxed, without wondering how much he's had to drink and how it's going to affect the rest of the night.

As far as my husband recognizing the severity of the situation and admitting his drinking problem, I can see that he's making a lot of progress. At first, he was trying to downplay what happened the other night (I said, "No interpretation of what happened that night is going to change the fact that I was extremely scared of you," which stopped him in his tracks). He was trying to say that he might have a drinking "problem" but he wasn't an alcoholic. I said, "What's the difference?" He said he's not like the people on the show "Intervention" who are completely wasted all day and can't function. But I said there are different degrees of it. I said some people can handle having a few drinks occasionally, but he isn't one of them. Alcoholism runs in his family. He finally admitted that it was bad how he was drinking alone all the time and blacking out frequently.

He's started texting an old friend of his who recently cut way back on his drinking after his wife complained. My husband asked him to be his "sobriety buddy" (he showed me their texts). It's not exactly the same situation because the other wife is okay with her husband having up to 2 drinks per night, and I told my husband I will not budge on him never having another drop of alcohol around me. However, I was glad that my husband was talking to someone about it. I was impressed that he even voluntarily told his friend the whole story of everything he did that scared me.

On Sunday, my husband had plans to see a movie with a friend (he had been planning it for a while). He mentioned that he might have a drink with him after the movie. I said, "I wish you wouldn't. Even though you won't be drinking around me, you're still coming home to me and I'm going to feel nervous."

I was happy that he ended up not going out for a drink afterward--he just came home.

We've been talking a lot about how much better things are since he has stopped drinking, not just in our family but in his own body. I could tell he was struggling physically the first couple of days. I'm sure his body was having withdrawals. He looked pretty bad on Saturday night. But since then he's been looking a lot better. He's sleeping better, he feels more clear-headed, and his mood seems a lot more stable. I'm happy to see that he has been buying herbal tea--our old liquor cabinet is now filled with a lot of herbal tea, which he's been downing every night.

Occasionally I catch myself feeling sorry for him. I can see him struggling. I feel bad that he had to give up something he enjoyed (but I asked him, "How can you still enjoy something that is causing so much damage to your life?"). Then I have to remind myself that this is really for his benefit as well. And for my kids' benefit. I quit smoking just before we got married, after smoking for 10 years, and it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, second only to childbirth, so I feel like I can relate a lot to what he's going through. Yet quitting was one of the best decisions I ever made, and I know this will be the same for him.

So we're doing well right now, but I know it's still fragile. I wish he was in a real alcohol treatment program and receiving therapy. It's scary feeling like I have to help him through this on my own. I wish he would just resolve to quit drinking entirely, instead of allowing himself to drink with friends when I'm not around. I told him, "That's just leaving the door open, and it will start to creep back in." I can tell he's thinking about it. I'm worried about future situations that will come up. For example, our neighbors are having a party in a couple of weeks. Kids are invited but I'm sure there will be alcohol. Is my husband going to want to drink there? Should I leave as soon as I see him with a drink? Should I refuse to go unless he promises not to drink?

I should probably go to Al-Anon or something like that. As much as I love him and I have hope for our future, I know I should work on a back-up plan. Our relationship is on a major high and I'm scared that he could relapse. But right now at least he seems committed to making a change.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

HelpPlease1 said:


> So we're doing well right now, but I know it's still fragile. I wish he was in a real alcohol treatment program and receiving therapy. It's scary feeling like I have to help him through this on my own. I wish he would just resolve to quit drinking entirely, instead of allowing himself to drink with friends when I'm not around. I told him, "That's just leaving the door open, and it will start to creep back in." I can tell he's thinking about it. I'm worried about future situations that will come up. For example, our neighbors are having a party in a couple of weeks. Kids are invited but I'm sure there will be alcohol. Is my husband going to want to drink there? Should I leave as soon as I see him with a drink? Should I refuse to go unless he promises not to drink?
> 
> I should probably go to Al-Anon or something like that. As much as I love him and I have hope for our future, I know I should work on a back-up plan. Our relationship is on a major high and I'm scared that he could relapse. But right now at least he seems committed to making a change.


Yes, you would benefit from Al-Anon. Please go. Ask your husband to attend AA as well.
Have you read any books on codependency? I highly recommend that you read Codependent No More http://www.amazon.com/Codependent-N...445280299&sr=1-1&keywords=codependent+no+more, followed by Facing Codependency http://www.amazon.com/Facing-Codepe...445280353&sr=1-1&keywords=facing+codependency


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> Yes, you would benefit from Al-Anon. Please go. Ask your husband to attend AA as well.
> Have you read any books on codependency? I highly recommend that you read Codependent No More http://www.amazon.com/Codependent-N...445280299&sr=1-1&keywords=codependent+no+more, followed by Facing Codependency http://www.amazon.com/Facing-Codepe...445280353&sr=1-1&keywords=facing+codependency


:iagree:


What about the shelters? The options of maybe having to make it without him for a while. I read your post and I only see denial. I'm sorry, but it's naive of you to think this poor man will not relapse. Read about alcohol addictions. Knowledge is power. You cannot afford to just have hope and love for your husband, you have the power to help him find more apt help. You guys are trying and that's really good, but it isn't enough to fight his drinking demon.

Enjoy what you have and crave it enough to really fix the situation and for it not to be a temporary thing. Strive to make this YOUR new and improved marriage!

Bibi


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Excellent job, and I'm glad your relationship is improving 

Yes, definitely go to Alanon. They have seen men like your H who try to do it on their own, and they'll give you tools to deal with him when (not if) he tries to slip alcohol in.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

HelpPlease1, happy things are going well. But it can relapse. Get your husband some help against the addiction. I have had anger issues, and there are times when I relapse. I am sure it is 100 times worse with alcohol.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm glad to hear that you have had a few good days. And I agree with others that you would benefit from going to Al Anon. This is only the start. there is a huge chance that your husband will have relapses.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

I hope your husband can stay sober..And I hope you two get better and better.

Secondly.
Woodchuck

So if your wife was drunk all the time and threatened to beat you..You'd be horny and want sex w/her?


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