# Very Long, sorry in advance



## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

Let me start by saying that my husband and I have been married for 17 years. We have two of our own children (11 & 5) and he has two sons from his previous marriage (24 & 19). 

Our relationship has been non traditional from the very beginning. I met him when I was 20 years old. He was married to his first wife who was expecting their second child and he had been cheating on her for their entire marriage. When we started seeing each other, it was purely physical. I don't think either one of us was looking for anything long term. I did not have any guilt at the time about being with a married man (shows a hint of what kind of person I am).

We never had any traditional dating, just hanging out with friends after work, and going out to clubs together with friends. 

Shortly after the birth of his second child, he separated from his wife. He would stay with me when he didn't have his children and we continued dating. He was paying a lot of child support to her and lived with me half the time and his mom the other half to have his boys.

I was in college part time and working a couple of jobs to remain living on my own. At some point, I decided that I needed to go to college full time to reach my career goals and I moved in with he and his mother. 

We were together for two years before we got married. Our marriage was also very non traditional. He had a health crisis and I had a full time job and could offer him health insurance coverage if we were to get married. We had a very small family ceremony and life went on after that.

We were very compatible sexually in the beginning of our relationship and marriage. Even though I was not a virgin, I was somewhat naïve in the sexual department. He introduced me to a lot of things that I had not experienced before. He like that I was willing to experiment. I liked that he was gentle with me and genuinely cared about my experience.

A couple of years after we got married, my desire for sex plummeted. Most of our major fights revolved around this issue. He tried his best to figure out how to fix the problem, but I was not able to identify what the problem was and just blamed him for wanting it too much. A couple of times, his anger would get the best of him and I told him that I would not put up with that and dragged him to counseling. That never really solved anything because I was looking for the counselor/therapist to tell him he wanted sex too much and that I was normal. We continued to have a problem with sex for many years where he was left thinking that his wife did not desire him and me thinking that he was a pervert for wanting to have sex too much.

Our sexual problem made a complete turn around in late 2012 when I found out he had a secret email account. It made me realize that I could lose him if I didn't figure it out and my inner porn star came out. We have been having a great sex life from that point on and I know that we are both very happy in that department.

Fast forward to late 2013 when honestly things are the best they've ever been in our marriage. We felt very close to one another and I finally feel like I'm married to my best friend. Because of this closeness that we both felt, he felt like it was time to clear the air about anything and everything. He told me some things he had done to cross marital boundaries and he left it open for me to tell him. I didn't and pretended like there was nothing to tell. 

He began asking some questions about things that he had kept in his mind for years and years. I would answer his questions and some bits of truth trickled out. I will list all of the things that were dropped on my husband like a bomb. These things came out over a period of time which is part of the problem I'm facing now. I should have told him everything from the beginning. I will put them in chronological order to the best I can remember.

Prior to dating him, I had messed around with a guy that I would see out at clubs every now and then. After we started dating I had sex with him in a van in the parking lot at a wedding one night when I was extremely drunk. I kissed this same guy right in front of my husband (then boyfriend) one night when we were out at a club. Another night this same guy took me out into the parking lot of the club in a van and we were heading for sex, but I passed out and when I woke up he was gone and my panties were too. The last time I was with this guy was at the house I was living at the time (the one my boyfriend was staying with me half the time). He followed me and my friends home after going out and he and I went into the bedroom and had sex.

Also while we were dating, a guy (stranger) followed me home one night to my apartment and I made out with him. No kind of sex was had. 

During the time my husband and I were dating, I became involved with someone else and had sex with him on two occasions. Once at one of his friend's houses, and once at my place. I asked him to have anal sex with me. He tried, but I made him stop.

Another time when we were dating, he went on a business trip. While he was out of town, I went to a bar with two male coworkers. We hung out and one of them drove me home. When I went to get out of the car, we kissed pretty passionately and then I told him I was going inside before any else happened. 

All of these incidents that happened when we were dating stopped before I moved in with my husband and his mother.

After we were married for 2 and 1/2 years, I was away from my husband for approximately 3 months for training. One night I went out with some people to eat dinner and then we went back to one of they guys rooms to hang out. They wanted to see my nipple piercing and I briefly showed them. One of the guys and I kissed and he wanted to do more but I wouldn't. I never saw or spoke to him again.

During a trip out of town with my family, my sister and I went out bar hopping and I got really drunk and kissed a guy on the dance floor. The guy wanted me to go back to his room, but I said no. I never saw or talked to him again.

I also had a brief emotional affair with a male co worker around the same time. We never had any physical contact. He and I just talked on the phone at work a few times. During one phone call, I was feeling horny and insinuated that I was masturbating. At that point, he realized that the joking and playful conversation could be heading in a dangerous direction and told me that he was not trying to go the route that I thought things were going. We remained working together, and no further boundaries were crossed.

During our marriage at some point I obtained a Facebook account. I accepted friend requests from former boyfriends/lovers and searched for people I had been with. I communicated with an old flame from high school. No private messages, just comments about pictures, etc. One of the guys I was with while dating my husband posted about his dog dying. I sent him a private message offering my condolences. I sent another message asking if he still worked at his previous place of employment and that was it. I never attempted to rekindle any relationships with anyone through Facebook.

So, now my husband knows all of this stuff and understandably he hates me. Things have been really bad for almost 2 years now. Many instances of one of us packing our stuff and leaving. I hate what this is doing to my kids. I am very remorseful for what I have done and I know that I'll never make those mistakes again. He will ask me how I know this and I try to make him understand that for many years I held a lot of resentment towards him for many things. I feel like I have matured and have gained a lot of wisdom from my past mistakes. 

We tried counseling, but he stopped going because he thought the counselor was trying to get him to just forgive me. He wants some kind of repayment/punishment. He wanted to level the playing field and anytime he would mention anything about it I would get jealous (I know hypocrite). He's also suggested me getting a second job to help him get his dream car (a used Porsche). I'm not opposed to doing that, I just don't know where I can fit in the time with our crazy busy lives. I am also willing to do a post nuptial agreement that he would get everything in the event of another act of infidelity from me. 

We are stuck. I am not helping him move forward. I have hurt the process along the way by not telling him the whole truth right away. Some of the things I have done have damaged his self esteem and ego so much. I don't know how to repair it. I have been an open book. He has access to everything and I don't hide anything from him. 

Our most recent blow up came today. I ask him why the seat of his truck is pushed back so far and he tells me that one of his female co workers rode with him to a work meeting the other day and she is really tall. This coworker is single, attractive, and actively looking for someone. I felt the jealousy creep up and he could tell that I was not happy about that. He gets extremely angry with me if I tell him that something he's done is upsetting to me or that I'm uncomfortable with that. I know that I've done everything to destroy him. He expects that I should never tell him about anything that makes me upset when I've done way worse to him. 

Please give me any advice you can on how to help my husband heal from the hurts I've caused him. 

Our story is very long and I apologize for that.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You're kidding, right? Your husband is a serial cheater; he doesn't deserve to heal from the very same hurt that he's repeatedly visited upon others.

And for the rest of it...?

HOLY. CRAP.

Please... whatever the two of you do, please just stay together forever, and for no reason other than the fact that no sane person would wish either of you on anyone else.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

I would venture to say you don't believe that people can change.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> I would venture to say you don't believe that people can change.


Ah... this same sad riposte, more often than not spoken by those who refuse to change.

Tell you what: change FIRST, then talk about how "people can change".


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

I was referring to the fact that my husband cheated repeatedly on his first wife, but did not cheat on me.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> I did not have any guilt at the time about being with a married man (shows a hint of what kind of person I am).


PLEASE do whatever you can to make these marriage work. No else deserves you except him and vice versa. I mean that with all sincerity. Why don't you just have an open relationship? Then there is no dishonestly and some poor soul doesn't have to get cheated on by the likes of either of you.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

I appreciate your input, but I really have no desire to be with anyone else. I want to make our marriage a strong one where we find happiness together. He has told me that he does not have a desire to be with anyone else either. I know that both of us have made some really bad mistakes. I'm trying to get advice on how to help him heal from this blow to his self esteem and ego.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> I appreciate your input, but I really have no desire to be with anyone else. I want to make our marriage a strong one where we find happiness together. He has told me that he does not have a desire to be with anyone else either. I know that both of us have made some really bad mistakes. *I'm trying to get advice on how to help him heal from this blow to his self esteem and ego.*


Would you say that his ex-wife is worthy of the same consideration from him?


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

Yes I would. I have thought about making amends with her as well. She did not deserve that kind of treatment and neither did my husband.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

you say you tried counseling.

Did you only try one counselor? If yes, perhaps you could try a differenbt one.

Do you belong to a church? Any avenue of counseling available through that venue to you?


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

My husband is not willing to attend any kind of counseling. I wish we belonged to a church. We have kept this situation very private because my husband does not want anyone to know what I've done to him. We don't have anyone to talk to about this which I why I ended up here. It's private an anonymous so no one will know us.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Are you BOTH now in a place where you can be dedicated to change? I believe it is possible if you've both grown-up & are willing to work on things. Wow you've got a lot to work on! You were clearly too young to be in such a committed relationship but don't hold all of the guilt. You BOTH got in this mess! 

I think you BOTH need complete transparency. Has your H written out a timeline of all his indescretions? it sounds like all of the focus is now on you. That's NOT going to work. Your behavior is so linked to his. I think you need honesty, transparency (NO secrets, all passwords shared etc), RULES on avoiding affairs...you can goggle that but having an available 'model' single lady in his car alone is AGAINST the rules!! You both need to avoid alcohol, bar hopping, girls/boys night out etc. you're not kids anymore you're PARENTS!

I'm sure others can advise you of some good books & programmes to follow. MC would be a very good idea (find one that's right for both of you. All MCs are not the same).

Best wishes. I DO BELIEVE anythings possible in a relationship if you both want it. Maybe once you've both done the hard work & reached a good place for a couple of years you could celebrate with a proper wedding.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

BrokenLady

Your response brings tears to my eyes. I agree with everything you said. I feel so much more grown up now and actually know what hard work marriage is!

I didn't mention his indiscretions because I was trying not to place any of the blame on him for my mistakes. The things I did were selfish acts that didn't take his feelings into consideration.

I want him to be on the same page as me as far as rules on avoiding future marital boundary crossing. He does not feel like I have the right to expect anything from him right now because he is still so angry with me. We can have a few good weeks, then any small disagreement just turns into a bashing session about what a lying cheating ***** I am. I've tried not to throw things in his face because I can forgive him for things and move forward. 

I have hurt him more than anyone ever has in his life. He trusted me and thought I would never do anything like that to him.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> BrokenLady
> 
> Your response brings tears to my eyes. I agree with everything you said. I feel so much more grown up now and actually know what hard work marriage is!
> 
> ...


LOL. That's the pot calling the kettle a pot.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> BrokenLady
> 
> Your response brings tears to my eyes. I agree with everything you said. I feel so much more grown up now and actually know what hard work marriage is!
> 
> ...


Why do you think you could so easily disregard his feelings and be with other men, then return to him as if nothing happened?

How did you learn to compartmentalize so easily?

I really just think that you were just too young and not ready to be in a committed relationship until now.

I think he is at fault also for bringing you into his forbidden lifestyle.
Cheating on his former wife and making it all seem that it was ok because you two "cared" for one another.

I must admit though that you seem remorseful and want to change, but I fear that this man will never forgive you. Cheaters have this way of being able to do harm, but not being very good at receiving the same harm they dish out.

I would be very surprised if this man ever treats you like a loving husband treats his wife. He's broken and he views things through a broken lens.

Now that you have done this to him, he sees you through that broken lens as someone that hurt him and I believe he will make you pay for a long time if he doesn't get help.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Holy crap....I got nuthin....well, except maybe you both deserve the other, and karma rules.....


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I could not get past the point where you were able to flip a switch, and go from sexless to porn star...Can and do most women do this?


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

SoulStorm said:


> Why do you think you could so easily disregard his feelings and be with other men, then return to him as if nothing happened?
> 
> How did you learn to compartmentalize so easily?
> 
> ...




Soul Storm

I think you are exactly right about me being too young and not ready until now. I've caused a lot of hurt to him along that journey.

I'm also afraid that you are right that he will never forgive me. It's been almost 2 years since this all came out and many days I feel like we are at day one.

I don't know where to go from here. He says he doesn't know where our marriage will end up. He will not go to counseling, so I don't even suggest it anymore. He told me today that I don't have any right to be upset about things that he does (like taking his coworker on a ride to a company meeting) because I've done way worse to him. I understand his point of view, but I'm trying to let him know that I am in a different place as far as marriage goes and want us to rebuild a solid marriage where it's not ok to be alone with someone of the opposite sex ever. 

Thanks for your honesty. I appreciate that.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

Woodchuck said:


> I could not get past the point where you were able to flip a switch, and go from sexless to porn star...Can and do most women do this?


I wasn't sexless, just wasn't enthusiastic. He had plenty of sex, just not the kind he wanted.

When the thought crossed my mind that I could lose him, I made a conscious choice to put more effort into our sex life. I realized how much it could bring us closer together, and you know what, it did. Until this ......


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## perol (Oct 6, 2015)

My favorite part of your story is where your husband- a serial cheater with no remorse who has a secret email account and who is most likely cheating on you tells you to get a second job to pay for his dream car. 

The guy has got a real set thats for sure. He really knows how to play your guilt strings. 

He's so manipulative it's scary, he's approaching the level of a sociopath. 

You're no angel either but at least you've got remorse and no desire to cheat at the moment.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

perol said:


> My favorite part of your story is where your husband- a serial cheater with no remorse who has a secret email account and who is most likely cheating on you tells you to get a second job to pay for his dream car.
> 
> The guy has got a real set thats for sure. He really knows how to play your guilt strings.
> 
> ...



I really want to make him whole again. I just didn't ask for much from him when I found out about the secret email account. I only asked him to make me feel like he loved and desired me. I'm easy to please.

He is very rigid, but certainly not sociopath. He wants to be able to get over things his way and tell me what he needs. I understand that. I guess he feels like me working hard to give him something he's always wanted will prove that I'm truly sorry. 

I don't think he has a desire to cheat on me, but on days that he is really angry, sometimes I question that. I think if the opportunity came along, he would take it and expect me to look the other way. 

He does not associate his transgressions with anything I've done. He says that the things I've done are way worse and they don't even compare to anything he's ever done to me. In his mind, he thought he was in a relationship with a sweet, nice, naïve girl that would never do anything to hurt him. His entire view of me has been crushed. He says that I knew what kind of person he was when I met him, and he's never cheated on me, so he doesn't even take his **** into consideration.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You married a cheater and you expected...? What, exactly? :scratchhead:

I think I should point out I have been in your shoes. They pinch, don't they?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

"If they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you."


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## perol (Oct 6, 2015)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> I don't think he has a desire to cheat on me, but on days that he is really angry, sometimes I question that. I think if the opportunity came along, he would take it and expect me to look the other way.


Of course he would cheat on you if he hasn't already. You already suspect he cheated, that's why you questioned the seat being pushed back all the way and you don't fully accept his "female coworker with the long legs" excuse.

He cheated on his exwife for most of the marriage. Why do you think he wouldn't cheat on you? Are you any better than she was?

What other reason could he have for a secret email account?

You really need to stop brushing this stuff under the rug, it doesn't really go away when you do that. The pile just gets bigger. I'm sure there are lots of other red flags that you haven't chosen to share with us.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

perol said:


> Of course he would cheat on you if he hasn't already. You already suspect he cheated, that's why you questioned the seat being pushed back all the way and you don't fully accept his "female coworker with the long legs" excuse.
> 
> He cheated on his exwife for most of the marriage. Why do you think he wouldn't cheat on you? Are you any better than she was?
> 
> ...



It might help to explain a little bit more. His first marriage was the result of an out of wedlock pregnancy. He never loved her and I don't think I'm any better than her, he just didn't love her and fell in love with me.

The secret email account was for that purpose. He came clean immediately and told me he responded to an ad on craigslist, but nothing came of it. At this point in our lives, we worked together, and were pretty much together 24/7, so there were no times unaccounted for. I believe him that nothing happened. 

The seat being pushed back all the way is true. I know this girl and she is very tall, taller than my husband in fact. I don't think anything is going on, I was simply trying to let him know that I don't want either of us to think that's it's ok to spend time with members of the opposite sex. He gets angry at me like I said because he says that I don't have the right to say anything after what I've done to him.


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## perol (Oct 6, 2015)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> It might help to explain a little bit more.
> 
> 
> The secret email account was for that purpose. He came clean immediately and told me he responded to an ad on craigslist, but nothing came of it.


The secret account was for WHAT purpose? What does him responding to a Craigslist Ad have to do with his exwife? 

Answer- NOTHING. You're rugsweeping again. When CAUGHT with a secret email account he "responded to one Craigslist ad but nothing came of it". Explore that one a little more. What the heck is he doing on Craigslist looking for hookups?



notwhoiwanttobe said:


> The seat being pushed back all the way is true. I know this girl and she is very tall, taller than my husband in fact.


You should explore that one a bit more too. Is it common for him to drive to go to work meetings? Does he often drive attractive single female long legged coworkers to these meetings? Why doesn't she take her own car? Inquiring minds want to know. He seems to have a "mild convenient" excuse for everything. 



notwhoiwanttobe said:


> He gets angry at me like I said because he says that I don't have the right to say anything after what I've done to him.


He had a secret account and he was looking to hookup with someone on Craigslist. By itself that's enough for you to check up on him, just like he has a right to check up on you. The two of you are completely untrustworthy but two wrongs don't make a right.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

perol said:


> The secret account was for WHAT purpose? What does him responding to a Craigslist Ad have to do with his exwife?
> 
> Answer- NOTHING. You're rugsweeping again. When CAUGHT with a secret email account he "responded to one Craigslist ad but nothing came of it". Explore that one a little more. What the heck is he doing on Craigslist looking for hookups?
> 
> ...



I agree that we are both untrustworthy people. I have no problem with him checking up on me. I understand that. In his mind the things I did to him are way worse than anything he's done to me. 

He says he's never had any physical contact with anyone since we've been married. He was perusing ads on Craigslist and that's why he had the secret email account. I believe him when he told me that nothing happened. He came clean immediately although he did delete the account so I couldn't read the emails. 

Because I've had sex with other people before we were married and kissed two people after our marriage, he doesn't consider anything he's done remotely close to that. He is very rigid in his thinking and he says I'm arguing with him and blaming him anytime I try to bring anything up about both of us crossing marital boundaries. He will never consider that.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

So the guy you married who had cheated throughout his entire first marriage tells you he has never physically cheated on you. And you believe him? You just take his word for it?

Did his first wife ever suspect he was cheating and ask him? And of course, he told her the truth, right? He's an honest, upstanding kind of guy (with a secret email account just checking out the CL ads out of curiosity). BTW, if you are just checking out CL ads, why do you need an email unless you are posting or responding to the ads, right? And if nothing ever came of his CL adventures, why delete the account? Why not prove to your wife nothing came of his communications by letting you through the emails especially since there was only 1 he responded to?

Finally, your husband met you as a young thing willing to knowingly be the mistress of a married man who was cheating on his pregnant wife, and he is shocked that you are somewhat morally challenged in your behaviors during that time period?


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## perol (Oct 6, 2015)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> He says he's never had any physical contact with anyone since we've been married. He was perusing ads on Craigslist and that's why he had the secret email account. I believe him when he told me that nothing happened. He came clean immediately although he did delete the account so I couldn't read the emails.


Its amazing that you can write this and not see what you are missing. Just because he SAYS he's never had any physical contact doesn't make it TRUE. The secret email account was deceptive in of itself. The very fact that he kept it from you means you cannot trust him at his word. The very fact that he cheated on his exwife for most of the marriage makes it clear the kind of person he is- a cheater and a liar and someone who cannot be taken at their word.

He DELETED the account so you couldn't see the emails. There's only one good reason he would do that, can you not see that? 



notwhoiwanttobe said:


> Because I've had sex with other people before we were married and kissed two people after our marriage, he doesn't consider anything he's done remotely close to that.


He's done worse, he's proven that he cannot be trusted, via his actions with you and with his exwife. Don't let him take you down the path that he is a saint because you've done untrustworthy things.

Sounds to me like he's using the old "the best defense is a good offense"- meaning that he's covering his tracks by attacking you.

There's a very good chance he's had hookups during your marriage. Don't fool yourself into believing anything less.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Yikes.. Ultimately, if you have done absolutely everything you can do to show him your remorse, to rebuild trust with him, be completely 100% honest with him, etc., then I think it's fair for you to stop and ask him if he is going to be able to get over this or not. Being angry, saying things like, "you have no right to question me" or being mean or disrespectful is somewhat understandable in the immediate aftermath of an affair discovery, but any of that happening two years later is absolutely far too long and unacceptable. You absolutely violated his trust and hurt him, if the marriage fails it will largely be your fault, but after everything calmed down a bit, his actions, words, choices, etc. are his responsibility alone and you don't have to put up with it forever.

So... I don't know. I would consider talking to him and asking him if there is anything else you could do to help him get over this and leave it behind? I'm guessing there isn't anything more you can do, so then the question would be, can he forgive you and get over this? If not, then I'd say you should consider filing for divorce from him, because if after two years he still doesn't want a good healthy marriage with you, and can't imagine having that again with you when asked, then what are you waiting for? At that point, I'd just chalk the marriage ending up to a life lesson being learned, and move on.

Plus, the prospect of the marriage actually possibly ending my jar him awake as well, and make him realize that he doesn't want to lose you and that you've actually been as supportive and understanding as possible the last two years. It happens!


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

What a story.

First you need to ask yourself do you love him ? In your posts you never said that and once you said you dont want to hurt your children. Let me tell you this,staying in marriage just because of the kids is even worse thing then divorcing.

Another point,both of you need to have some growing up. Your husband have 4 kids,two of them with you and he wants a Porsche with your money helping him out. Do you know why ? Because he wants to act like some kind of player or Alpha male and it is dangerous for your marriage because he is not 100% into this marriage. His ads to craiglist confirms that. 

On the other side you are a wild lady who seems to me that she got no idea what she wants in her life. First you help him cheat on his wife,then you cheat on him over and over again and now you want to stay married with him.

If you are sure that you love him and he loves you then you need some help from therapist immediatly. If he keeps rejecting your offer then push him even harder. 

You gave him your paswords,but he needs to do the same thing. Why keep something secret from your wife/husband if you love them ?

Also no more going for rides with this female coworker,she got her car or she can use a bus.

This all happend two years ago and you are in the same spot,like it was just yesterday.

You need to stop speaking with your previous boyfriends and one night stands. What are they doing on your facebook page ? Trust me on this one,they are not there to "like" your photos of your kids or your husband.


Stay strong lady


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> I was referring to the fact that my husband cheated repeatedly on his first wife, but did not cheat on me.


And you know this how? I doubt he is totally reformed just had lots of practice and hid it from you. 

The problem is karma's a *****, you suit each other tbh. What goes around always comes around and the only ones I feel sorry for are the poor children from the first and second marriages, they do not have a choice, you and your H had many choices and chose to make the wrong ones, sometimes you have to live with the consequences.

Now, what gives you or him the right to demand fidelity when both of you have been up to your eyeballs in infidelity, just saying :frown2:


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Sounds like he's got it made to be honest. Now he can keep you around AND cheat AND get away with it because you're too busy feeling guilty about your own affairs. I think he landed himself a cheater's dream life. Now he thinks he can manipulate a Porsche out of you and your guilt! Telling him the truth just gave him all the power in your relationship because he probably kept his cards under the table so you couldn't use it against him. He's a great manipulator.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> In his mind, he thought he was in a relationship with a sweet, nice, naïve girl that would never do anything to hurt him. His entire view of me has been crushed. He says that I knew what kind of person he was when I met him, and he's never cheated on me, so he doesn't even take his **** into consideration.


LMAO! So basically he's mad because he married someone EXACTLY like himself rather than a "nice girl". I guess it never occurred to him that "nice girls" don't want cheaters?

Oh the hypocrisy... Does that mean he hates himself too or just you? I'm guessing the latter since he doesn't come off as the "accepting any accountability whatsoever" type.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah... I have to really doubt that all he is guilty of since your marriage is setting up a couple of "Casual Encounters" posts or replies on Craigslist...

As you said, he cheated on his first one serially, for years. I know you say he didn't love her, and got married because of a pregnancy, but honestly only he can know that for sure, and it only makes sense that he would tell you that he never loved her. I'm not saying he's lying, but I am saying you just can't really know for sure. So if he cheated all those years and got away with it for the most part, and now we live in this technology age where finding affair partners, "casual encounters" partners, prostitutes, porn, etc. is 10x easier, I just really, REALLY have a hard time believing that he has been completely innocent aside from the secret e-mail account and craigslist sex partner hunting you already know about.

Ultimately, I would think that most people with a partner who cheated would eventually either want to reconcile and rebuild their marriage into a happy one, or after taking some time to consider and process the affair, decide to end the marriage and move on. Your husband seems content with leaving your marriage in a state of guilt, shame and emotional disconnection, with no effort or expressed desire to improve it with you. Why is that? I could imagine that he likes being in the position of power over you, having the leverage of your guilt to manipulate things the way he likes, get away with things you might not normally approve of, possibly including cheating himself.

That's why I suggested in my last post that at some point you just need to try to force a decision. The status quo is unacceptable. The marriage needs to either be moving in a positive direction towards recovery, or a decision should be made (at least initially) to end it and seek happiness elsewhere.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

cdbaker said:


> Yeah... I have to really doubt that all he is guilty of since your marriage is setting up a couple of "Casual Encounters" posts or replies on Craigslist...
> 
> As you said, he cheated on his first one serially, for years. I know you say he didn't love her, and got married because of a pregnancy, but honestly only he can know that for sure, and it only makes sense that he would tell you that he never loved her. I'm not saying he's lying, but I am saying you just can't really know for sure. So if he cheated all those years and got away with it for the most part, and now we live in this technology age where finding affair partners, "casual encounters" partners, prostitutes, porn, etc. is 10x easier, I just really, REALLY have a hard time believing that he has been completely innocent aside from the secret e-mail account and craigslist sex partner hunting you already know about.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your response. I appreciate the honest feedback from some people here. I realize that others like to pass judgment and throw stones. 


I like to be a positive thinker and I do believe him. I will not give up on our relationship. I think we could move along much faster with a good marriage counselor. I'm really not into forcing anyone to do anything. I believe that if people want to do it, they will. Forcing them will just breed resentment. 

I know I have made this bed for myself.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

Be smart said:


> What a story.
> 
> First you need to ask yourself do you love him ? In your posts you never said that and once you said you dont want to hurt your children. Let me tell you this,staying in marriage just because of the kids is even worse thing then divorcing.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate people who try to at least offer something helpful instead of people just slamming both of us. We have made awful mistakes in ours lives, but show me someone who hasn't right?

I do love him. I absolutely would not stay in it for the kids. I realize a bad marriage can be more harmful than a divorce, so I am truly interested in making this right so that we can move to a better place in our marriage.

I certainly spent a lot of years being a selfish person that made a lot of bad choices. I have so many regrets about the way I have handled myself. 

I would love nothing more than to be in marriage counseling together. I would never force him though. I've done that in the past and I feel like when you force someone to do something it just creates resentment. 

I am no longer "friends" with any of my formers on Facebook. My boundaries were way too soft and I didn't consider how it would affect my husband for me to do that.

He never gives me any reason to think that he is hiding anything. He doesn't protect his phone and has no problem if a message comes through and I see it. I'm just not as skeptical as some people think I should be. I know it sounds crazy, but I trust him.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> Thanks for your response. I appreciate the honest feedback from some people here. I realize that others like to pass judgment and throw stones.
> 
> 
> I like to be a positive thinker and I do believe him. I will not give up on our relationship. I think we could move along much faster with a good marriage counselor. I'm really not into forcing anyone to do anything. I believe that if people want to do it, they will. Forcing them will just breed resentment.
> ...


Here's the thing though, you *can't* actually force him to do anything, so that is a moot point.

What you can do is set a boundary for yourself, decide what you will accept or not. Saying, "We need to start going to marriage counseling, or we need to get a divorce" would not be forcing him to do anything, it's offering him a choice based on the boundaries you set and what is acceptable for you. You just have to decide, would you be comfortable living the way you are today for the rest of your life? Are you satisfied with the marriage as it is today? If not, after two years, when do you want to push for some change?


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## perol (Oct 6, 2015)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate people who try to at least offer something helpful instead of people just slamming both of us. We have made awful mistakes in ours lives, but show me someone who hasn't right?


Putting salt in the sugar container is a mistake.

Kissing drunk guys and showing your nipple piercing and having emotional affairs and telling coworkers you're masturbating is not a mistake. 

Its really bad judgement and lack of boundaries and is very deceptive when you're in a committed exclusive relationship.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm not passing judgement. But I do believe you and your husband both have deep seatd issues that you both need to deal with separately. 

You married a serial cheater. You yourself acted shamefully. So, that being said, the two of you have a choice... either both of you consider the playing field level and you move forward on a clean slate, or you part ways. Sounds to me like your husband is the king of hypocrites. I don't feel at all sorry for him. At the same time I don't feel sorry for what you are going through either. 

I think you should divorce and stay single...for a long long time. You have some work to do on yourself. You have sh!t for boundaries, and you need to set some standards for yourself and stick to them. You cannot change your husband. He will either fix himself or flounder in the white trash-bin for the rest of his life. If he cannot pull himself out of the gutter, then you need to move on and become the best person you can be.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate people who try to at least offer something helpful instead of people just slamming both of us. We have made awful mistakes in ours lives, but show me someone who hasn't right?
> 
> I do love him. I absolutely would not stay in it for the kids. I realize a bad marriage can be more harmful than a divorce, so I am truly interested in making this right so that we can move to a better place in our marriage.
> 
> ...




It is a good thing that you realize what you want in this marriage,but good marriage is built with two persons.

If he wants to drive in new Porsche with this woman,or look for someone too hook up on craiglist then it is better for you not to waste any time.

Also you set up some boundaries for you (no more talking with your one night stands,showing your nipple piercings to strangers ) which is good,but what did your husband do ?

You would not "force" him to talk to you or your therapist about your marriage. He is old enough and he should realize that his wife is most important thing to him,just like your husband is supposed to be yours.

Go on some vacation with him,without kids and talk openly about your marriage problems. If he still refuse then you know where he stands and what are his priorities


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

Some of these comments are real smug.

It's like someone saying you should have had an abortion, while you are holding the baby. 

Well, the baby is here, now what? 

Their relationship didn't start off ideal, but they are married, now what?


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## mrtickle (Jan 29, 2013)

Just want to get my head around this, so a summary of your story as I see it :

* You dated a married man for some time as a 'friend with benefits' 
* You started dating him properly when his marriage broke down
* Your sex life has been good, with the stated blip
* You admitted, over time, of a number of times you cheated on him whilst you were dating, largely sexually driven encounters rather than affairs.
* As far as you know (or admit) you have both been faithful to each other since being married
* Due to your admissions, they often come out in arguments which is making you depressed

Counselling for you would be good, due to the whole history and how you feel when the arguments happen.

Sounds like you are both from similar stock, and bar the arguments recently, sound quite well suited. You admitted to some stuff pre-marriage which isn't good and would wind any spouse up but you either have to agree with him to end things now OR to draw a line under everything and move forward positively. 

I'm not as anti-cheater as most on this site (even though it happened to me), as sometimes you do bond with someone who is married to the wrong person. Lets put the 'serial cheater' thing to one side and assume thats what it was. So, if this guy was/is your soul-mate then you should be able to move on from the admissions. Even the trickle-truth nature of you revealing them....it's human nature for that to happen which is why it's part of the cheaters script. 

I've skipped past much of the detail in your post as there is a bunch of stuff there - but I would not entertain the idea of a post-nuptial (a concept, which I hate) or getting a second job to provide him a car. Take those things off the table completely.

If he is 'the one' he will allow you to clear the air and move on. If not, then he isn't and you should.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

tpdallas said:


> Some of these comments are real smug.
> 
> It's like someone saying you should have had an abortion, while you are holding the baby.
> 
> ...


Now she figures out what she wants in a marriage. Then, she needs to understand the boundaries needed to ensure her marriage becomes successful and set them in place. She then, takes her needs to her husband and talk to him about what it will take for her to become happy in this marriage. Listen to what he needs and work from there.

If he is unwilling to listen or change, then she either stay and put up with how they are living now. Or, she leaves.


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

I just feel like she's been married for 17 years and there are some posters who are only focusing on the affair 20 years ago.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

notwhoiwanttobe said:


> I was referring to the fact that my husband cheated repeatedly on his first wife, but did not cheat on me.


And how do you know that he hasn't cheated on you?

Secondly I can-(kind of) understand him being hurt by your cheating while married. But how can he be angry with what you did be for you were married?

I mean can you really cheat on a married man?


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## lisamaree (Nov 2, 2014)

First of all, I don't think you can expect to cheat on someone multiple times and they just forgive you because it happened so many years ago. This is all new info to him. An affair is debilitating to a marriage and takes years to repair, I don't really believe an affair ever fully goes away. The trust is permanently damaged, and your husband may never be able to fully forgive you.

Second, you seem to give a lot of excuses for your behavior in your post, stating you were drunk, or your relationship with him wasn't perfect. This is frankly unacceptable. If you are dropping excuses to him like this, then it is no wonder he can't move on. Will you cheat again in the future when things get tough? If you get drunk again are you going to have sex with someone else? Even if you assure him you wont, he may not believe you because the fact you did it multiple times and held the secret in for so long shows you are capable of otherwise.

Third, you both need counseling. If he won't go to counseling then at the very least you need to go alone to work on you. You may gain skills on how to approach this situation, and eventually your husband may see the good in it and join you, which brings me to the next point.

Your husband doesn't want to go to a counselor because he feels the counselor wants to rug sweep, but isn't that basically what is happening now? I mean, that is why your husband is so resentful. He feels you had an affair with no consequences, AKA rug sweeping. So what does it hurt to see a counselor to help you both cope and work this out? It makes me wonder if he is hiding something in his past or present from you that he feels a counselor may uncover. What makes you think you are different than his ex wife, and that he will never cheat on you? The fact that he supposedly got married to his ex wife, who he supposedly didn't love, and therefore motivated him to cheat on her (and justified it, at least to him)? Who told you this, him? There are 2 sides to every story and I would bet his ex wife has a much different version than he does.


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## Keepin-my-head-up (Jan 11, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> You're kidding, right? Your husband is a serial cheater; he doesn't deserve to heal from the very same hurt that he's repeatedly visited upon others.
> 
> And for the rest of it...?
> 
> ...



Best Advice Ever!!!


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

lisamaree said:


> Third, you both need counseling. If he won't go to counseling then at the very least you need to go alone to work on you. You may gain skills on how to approach this situation, and eventually your husband may see the good in it and join you, which brings me to the next point.
> 
> Your husband doesn't want to go to a counselor because he feels the counselor wants to rug sweep, but isn't that basically what is happening now?


He could also be avoiding the counselor because he knows he will have an authoritative third person telling him he is not doing as well as he should - at the moment he can blame everyone else.


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## notwhoiwanttobe (Oct 8, 2015)

First of all, I would like to thank everyone that is trying to help me sort this situation out. To the others, I guess you all find pleasure is judging people and throwing stones. 

I have made some very bad choices in the past and I realize that just saying I am sorry and I won't do it again is not going to make everything better. 

My husband and I began our relationship in a very non traditional deceitful way. He was ready to stop being the way he was and to be quite honest, I had no idea what I was doing in a committed relationship. We've been married for a very long time and have had many bad times. 

I truly believe that both of us would benefit from individual counseling and I am planning to pursue that for myself. I need to be able to get to my deep seated issues and resolve them for me and him. I wish that he would do the same, but I am highly doubtful.

I want to spend the rest of my life with my husband and I know I have work to do to allow him to heal. I realize that he may never love me the way he once did because of the pain I have inflicted upon him. My hope is that if I work on me and meet his needs which will allow him to heal, we will move forward and build our relationship into something it has never been before.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Good luck to both of you.

take good care of the kids. 

I do hope your counselor will advise reading certain books on how to help your spouse heal from affairs.


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