# Broken marriage after baby



## Raya (Dec 31, 2015)

Counseling appt next week for mysel, desperate for objective insight in the interim!! I'm new to this forum.

My husband is a very conflict avoidant, clueless partner. If you asked him right now if he thought everything in our relationship was copacetic he would probably say "yeah". We had a pretty rock solid relationship until we had our son a little over a year ago, everything seems to be imploding these last few months though. Seems we've both changed in ways that are making us less compatible with each other. He listens but doesn't hear, when I say there are issues he kind of said whatever will end the conversation as quickly as possible because he doesn't like these conversations, usually it's "do what you need to do" or something. He's fearful, I'm adventurous/a risk taker; he makes empty promises/goals/plans, I am a woman of my word. He's generally more absorbed with his phone than our son; he's affectionate but I feel so unheard and disconnected that I'm not interested in his affection. It's gotten to the point where I can barely recognize my love for him anymore. He ACTIVELY and admittedly tries to annoy me, the only thing he achieves by doing this is pushing me away). I feel like his mother because I pick up after him as much as I pick up after our one year old. When we're intimate it's really disconnected and quite awkward, at least for me. I'm really not entirely sure how much longer I can keep this up. It's not like he's abusive or anything, just seems like compatibility has taken a serious nose dive.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Raya, I'm repeating my post from the other thread here. 

Glad to see that you are starting counseling for yourself. I hope you get a lot of help with that.

Has he always been this obsessed with his phone? Seems a bit odd. Have you checked his phone bill see if there is any one number he's talking to and texting a lot?

I'm reposting this link just in case you did not see it... the author has a very good book "Divorce Busting" that help you.

Get Relationship Advice and Solve Marriage Problems with Michele Weiner-Davis - Divorce Busting®

Two other books that I think are must reads for you are “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters” by Dr. Harley.

This is a very crucial time in your marriage. Believe it or not, it’s completely possible to rebuild your marriage and the love/connection the two of you sued to have. But you would need to act very decisively.

The books I suggested have a lot of good info.

After you read them and get some clarity, I suggest that you write out what you want to tell your husband that the issues are and what you want from the marriage and from him. You have to let him know that in order for you to continue in the marriage, these things have to happen.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, do you have a job outside the home?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

First find out if he is afraid. Many men are simply scared to death to deal with babies/kids or are either clueless in HOW to deal with them, so they retreat. How often do you plop your baby on his lap and say "I'm gonna go take a bath; have fun!"? Ease him into caring for his baby, whether he wants it or not. If he starts warming up to the baby once he sees he won't break it, that may be your problem.


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## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

You say he's actively trying to annoy you... Was he always this way? Could he be trying to get your attention?

Men react to babies in ways women don't always expect. He may be scared, overwhelmed, lonely because your attention is now pointed elsewhere. I think you should gently get him comfortable with baby. Give them short periods alone together, where you're in the house but not exactly available. Turnera's bath suggestion is a great example.

And make sure you're still taking time out for each other. A few minutes watching TV together at night, getting a sitter so you can do something fun on the weekend. Babies are really hard on the marriage bond, your both going to need to make more of an effort towards each other than you did before.


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## Raya (Dec 31, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Also, do you have a job outside the home?


I work full time, our work hours are slightly offset which means our son isn't in daycare forever.

Along the lines of phone, he's mostly on Reddit, sometimes football, other times hearthstone. He used to do computer games a lot, I'm guessing he's supplementing with his phone since he hasn't been able to game (his comp broke). Used to game after I went to sleep.


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## Raya (Dec 31, 2015)

OpenWindows said:


> You say he's actively trying to annoy you... Was he always this way? Could he be trying to get your attention?
> 
> Men react to babies in ways women don't always expect. He may be scared, overwhelmed, lonely because your attention is now pointed elsewhere. I think you should gently get him comfortable with baby. Give them short periods alone together, where you're in the house but not exactly available. Turnera's bath suggestion is a great example.
> 
> And make sure you're still taking time out for each other. A few minutes watching TV together at night, getting a sitter so you can do something fun on the weekend. Babies are really hard on the marriage bond, your both going to need to make more of an effort towards each other than you did before.



He has spent plenty of time alone with our son, I've done a girls weekend, sometimes a girls night, sometimes just head to the store alone. He gives him baths every week day morning and gets him ready, feeds him, takes him to daycare, I hand him off as soon as he gets home because he only has a couple hours with him before his bed time by the time he's home from work. Once our son is asleep we sit down to watch shows we like together. One night a month my MIL takes him for a sleep over so we have the house to ourselves. 

With the actively annoying me he never did before Asher (that I can recall). It's not that he does something and I find it annoying, it's that he knows what annoys me and knowingly and purposefully does it in order to annoy me. Never thought of it as doing it for attention... That seems so incredibly childish for an otherwise mature and intelligent adult...


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Raya,

it is good you are heading to MC. Doing things to purposely annoy you, especially if you express that to him, indicates he is not thinking straight. But there is probably his side to listen to also.

if i were talking to him, I'd tell him to stay the hell off the video games for a while and concentrate on you.

And my advice for you is to stay away from girls week ends or GNO if they involve partying with friends who want to play like they are on Spring Break. You feel disconnected right now, by your own words. That makes you vulnerable to a "mistake" that may make your situation a lot worse.

One thing on MC. If you are not comfortable, fire them. It is not an exact science, and there are plenty of them out there.


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## Raya (Dec 31, 2015)

straightshooter said:


> Raya,
> 
> it is good you are heading to MC. Doing things to purposely annoy you, especially if you express that to him, indicates he is not thinking straight. But there is probably his side to listen to also.
> 
> ...


Our girls nights are nothing wild by any means, glass of wine and food, loooots of talking. No desire by any of us to go wild  I agree on the games, it bothers me more that he does it around our son when he's supposed to be focused on him rather than him doing it around me. By all means, everyone has there vice! But there's a time and a place..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you still as loving and affectionate as before the baby? Same amount of sex?


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## Raya (Dec 31, 2015)

turnera said:


> Are you still as loving and affectionate as before the baby? Same amount of sex?


Not by a long shot on the sex. He's affectionate but I feel so disconnected from him I want nothing to do with it. I can't fake affection, maybe he can.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Raya said:


> He has spent plenty of time alone with our son, I've done a girls weekend, sometimes a girls night, sometimes just head to the store alone. He gives him baths every week day morning and gets him ready, feeds him, takes him to daycare, I hand him off as soon as he gets home because he only has a couple hours with him before his bed time by the time he's home from work. Once our son is asleep we sit down to watch shows we like together. One night a month my MIL takes him for a sleep over so we have the house to ourselves.


Are the two of you getting about 15 hours together weekly, just the two of you?



Raya said:


> With the actively annoying me he never did before Asher (that I can recall). It's not that he does something and I find it annoying, it's that he knows what annoys me and knowingly and purposefully does it in order to annoy me. Never thought of it as doing it for attention... That seems so incredibly childish for an otherwise mature and intelligent adult...


Yes, it's childish... but sometimes people revert to childish behavior to get attention. Sounds like that is what he's doing. He just might feel neglected.

Can you give us some examples of the things he does to annoy you?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Raya said:


> Not by a long shot on the sex. He's affectionate but I feel so disconnected from him I want nothing to do with it. I can't fake affection, maybe he can.


I doubt he is faking affection. Sex is the major way that men get and maintain an emotional connection to their wife/partner.

For women sex is also important for building and maintaining a connection and that 'in love' feeling, but time together, talking, etc (non-sexual intimacy) is equally as important.

These things cause the body to produce hormones like dopamine and oxytocin. If they get too low in the brain, the feeling of love and bonding it lost. That's probably where you are at.

If you read the books, "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters", you will see that the author talks about a "love bank" in which there are deposits and withdrawals. What he's actually talking about with that metaphor is the production and uptake of oxytocin, dopamine, etc. Humans are chemical engines.

Right now you seem to be pretty depleted in these things. It sounds like he too is suffering from his love bank getting grossly depleted at this point.

The two of you need to start doing things that repair this. The reason I suggested those books is because they talk about how to fix this. You both have to identify your needs and then you both need to meet each other's needs.

We are not taught how to do this so most of us get into a marriage and then hit the wall. Some people just seem to figure it out. Others not so much. But the books teach what we should have been taught in high school about relationships.

For example, the two of you spend time together nightly after your baby is asleep. You two are watching TV and he's also on his phone playing games, etc. Well that's not quality time. With the TV you both are not paying attention to each other. And with him playing on his phone, he's off in another world. So you two are NOT really spending time together... not time that counts. 

Please read the books. They are really good.


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## Raya (Dec 31, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I doubt he is faking affection. Sex is the major way that men get and maintain an emotional connection to their wife/partner.
> 
> For women sex is also important for building and maintaining a connection and that 'in love' feeling, but time together, talking, etc (non-sexual intimacy) is equally as important.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this insight, I will take a look into these books. Yes I have no doubt both of us are lacking in the putting effort forward department. It's to a point where it's so hard to even imagine getting back to a good place though. Especially when he seemingly ignores the fact that I am having a hard time in the relationship. Partners are suppose to support each other when they're having a hard time right? Not recoil. At least those are my expectations..


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Raya said:


> Thank you for this insight, I will take a look into these books. Yes I have no doubt both of us are lacking in the putting effort forward department. It's to a point where it's so hard to even imagine getting back to a good place though. Especially when he seemingly ignores the fact that I am having a hard time in the relationship. Partners are suppose to support each other when they're having a hard time right? Not recoil. At least those are my expectations..


Yes they are supposed to help each other. Some people just do not know how to do this. They need some help to learn.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Raya said:


> Thank you for this insight, I will take a look into these books. Yes I have no doubt both of us are lacking in the putting effort forward department. It's to a point where it's so hard to even imagine getting back to a good place though. Especially when he seemingly ignores the fact that I am having a hard time in the relationship. Partners are suppose to support each other when they're having a hard time right? Not recoil. At least those are my expectations..


So how are YOU supporting HIM?


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## Raya (Dec 31, 2015)

turnera said:


> So how are YOU supporting HIM?


He's pursuing a very difficult certification In his line of work which I am supporting, whatever he needs to study uninterrupted. I've been supportive in caring for him while he's been sick for the past month off and on, and now an torn ligament in his foot from soccer so he needs extra support there too. when he expresses a concern with something I acknowledge his concern and discuss it, sometimes I say he's right and we change things and others I try to ease his concern with another perspective. I'm supportive of him spending time with his friends and nerding out as he enjoys doing, I encourage it. Or at least those things seem, to me, like being supportive.



EleGirl said:


> Are the two of you getting about 15 hours together weekly, just the two of you?
> 
> Can you give us some examples of the things he does to annoy you?


About 15 I think, one hour each week night, about 5 each weekend day. Typically no more than that though. Not necessarily spent together either between chores, projects, errands and stuff.

I honestly can't think of any current examples of the annoying. he was doing it for a few months there, which honestly seems to have been the start of me pulling away, but I don't think he's done it in the last few weeks after I asked him what he was trying to achieve by intentionally annoying me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Raya said:


> About 15 I think, one hour each week night, about 5 each weekend day. Typically no more than that though. Not necessarily spent together either between chores, projects, errands and stuff.


Time spent "together" between chores, projects, and errands is not quality time. Quality time is when you two concentrate on each other. Like you sit together in the evening maybe cuddle and talk. You look at each other. Or you go for a walk together, hold hands, talk, laugh and share your inner thoughts. Or a dinner out. Or out dancing. Or you cuddle in your bedroom. 

My husband and I, when things were good, used to have at-home dates. We'd make a try a snacks, get a bottle of wine, go to our bedroom, snack, talk, sip win, dance to music..and well you know the rest of it.

Those that's the kind of time you two need to be spending each week... 15 hours or as close to that as you can get. 




Raya said:


> I honestly can't think of any current examples of the annoying. he was doing it for a few months there, which honestly seems to have been the start of me pulling away, but I don't think he's done it in the last few weeks after I asked him what he was trying to achieve by intentionally annoying me.


Ok, I asked because I was trying to think of ways that you could turn his annoying you into some fun. Start some playing between the two of you. Like you keep a water gun on you and if he annoys you squirt him. I know it sounds silly, but I've done that in the past and it can really turn things around to not get annoyed but instead show him that you can still play.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Raya said:


> He's pursuing a very difficult certification In his line of work which I am supporting, whatever he needs to study uninterrupted. I've been supportive in caring for him while he's been sick for the past month off and on, and now an torn ligament in his foot from soccer so he needs extra support there too. when he expresses a concern with something I acknowledge his concern and discuss it, sometimes I say he's right and we change things and others I try to ease his concern with another perspective. I'm supportive of him spending time with his friends and nerding out as he enjoys doing, I encourage it. Or at least those things seem, to me, like being supportive.


I think the question was about supporting him, not mothering him (nursing the child, letting him play with his friends, having them over for play time)


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## Raya (Dec 31, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> I think the question was about supporting him, not mothering him (nursing the child, letting him play with his friends, having them over for play time)


Then I guess I'm a much better mother than I am a wife. I'm not sure how else I can provide him support.


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## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

Raya said:


> Then I guess I'm a much better mother than I am a wife. I'm not sure how else I can provide him support.


I had the same thought. @spotthedeaddog, how are you defining support?


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Raya said:


> With the actively annoying me he never did before Asher (that I can recall). It's not that he does something and I find it annoying, it's that he knows what annoys me and knowingly and purposefully does it in order to annoy me. Never thought of it as doing it for attention... That seems so incredibly childish for an otherwise mature and intelligent adult...


It also sounds passive-aggressive. If he's conflict avoidant, he is probably exacting his "revenge" for his inability to speak up about the small stuff before it becomes big stuff by torturing you.

There was another poster here, recently, who was reporting issues in her marriage, with her husband being mean to her or about her, after a new baby. When she started paying more attention to him, that is, giving him real undivided attention, things appeared to be turning around. I'm not sure she has posted in a while, but her issues were not unlike yours. 

BUT having been married to one myself, I know what it is like living with a conflict-avoidant person. I'm glad you have realized that about him. I never thought mine was; we always talked about things and I would see him get angry with his kids but handle things calmly. In the end, though, it turned out that while he might have been somewhat assertive on the outside, he was avoiding conflict over the big things, and he was passive-aggressive at times towards the end of our marriage. And he learned that in his teen years; it is how he handled his whacked-out mother.


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