# I Need Help Desperately!



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

It’s been a long time since I’ve posted on here, but here goes.
I need some good, honest advice from men who have found themselves in the position I believe my husband to be in, and/or women who have experienced the same issues.

Just some good advice to help me repair the damage. No incriminations, no leave him, no—based on your history you should…please be objective and look at the situation as it is RIGHT NOW, not the past. 

Things have been status quo in my marriage, not really great and not really bad, just really co-existing together until around May when stress has taken us both in directions I don’t believe we wanted to go in.

Our home flooded in March and we lost everything. Luckily we have great insurance and they have been taking care of rebuilding the house, replacing our things, etc. But the stress of it taking so long (still not done, probably another month) has taken it’s toll.

My husband is now indifferent to our relationship. Doesn’t want to put any further effort in it, from his side, and doesn’t care if it survives or not. Very apathetic to the marriage as a whole.

Meanwhile, I’m desperately trying to cling to the shreds of what’s left and I’m doing all the wrong things in the wrong way and while I know it – I don’t know how to change it.

In order to back-off and give my husband space to figure out what his needs were and what his issues were I stopped any clingy, intimate type behavior. I quit saying I love you all the time, I quit needing hugs and kisses. I backed off in the sex department as he was feeling pressured. I spent five months giving him all the space he needed and all it did was make the gulf between us wider.

It all came to a head this morning. I asked if it was okay if I cuddled up next to him, he asked why and I simply stated because I want to and proceeded to cuddle. He didn’t pull away but also didn’t participate in cuddling me back.

I then got so frustrated that I got up and tried to talk to him about what was going on. Why has it been five months and you haven’t touched me. Why are you on the computer looking at porn everyday but yet you won’t come near me. I explained that I tried to be patient, tried to give him space and it’s not working and I don’t know what else to do. He then responded I don’t want to try anymore. So I flat out asked him, do you not love me anymore—wouldn’t answer; do you want me to leave—answered, well if that’s what you want to do; asked him if he wanted a divorce and got “sure, yeah, ok, whatever you want.”

It’s obvious from his answers that he has checked out of the marriage emotionally. But yet, wasn’t firm in his answer that he wanted it over—that seemed wishy-washy to me.

I did tell him I wouldn’t stay in a sexless marriage and he had no response whatsoever. He buys a lot of toys that he keeps hidden and surfs a lot of porn and I did mention that he preferred plastic and a bunch of strangers on the internet to a warm-blooded woman who loved him. I know—that was probably best left unsaid, but I was really MAD by then and I tend to speak without thinking when I’m really angry.

Some major changes that have happened since March that may have helped move things in this direction: our home flooded in March, we’re living in austere conditions to say the least with little to no furniture, no kitchen, concrete floors; his stepfather died in May—his third parent to die in the last 12 months—his mom last year and dad three months later; I started school in March to get my advanced degree and want to move into a different career path, I think he may feel threatened by that. Money is not an issue at all.

So here is where I need some real advice. I would so appreciate any helpful inputs as I’m lost as to what to do (and no, I do not wish to entertain leaving at this point, so that is not an option at this time).

- What can I do, to turn around my part in the demise (I realize I have one but I don’t believe I have the skills to know how to turn it around)—I did write him an apology letter “for my part” in the condition of our marriage, accepting responsibility that I do have a part and apologizing for some of the “low blows” I administered during this latest argument—no excuses, just heartfelt apologies for my part (no finger pointing either, no BUTs in the apology letter either).

- Based on his responses to direct questions this morning—does it sound like he indeed wants a divorce or doesn’t and doesn’t know what to say or do either?

- Should I continue to remain backed off? It’s been 5 months, what if it turns into a year? Is that still the best way to go?

- I have a plethora of marriage books from other bad times during our marriage that I will be re-reading. I’ve also acquired The Clean Slate Method and The Magic of Making Up by T.W. Jackson. Some good advice in there, I will try to implement some of it.

- How do I act around him now? Like nothing has happened? Like usual? Silent treatment, what?

Again, thanks for taking the time out to read my post and offer any constructive advice that you can. I appreciate it.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well, a) I have no idea -- but no, never the silent treatment. 

I would act as normal as possible -- continue to be pleasant and courteous and open. You two really have been through a lot in the past year, so at the very least it is not a time to be making major life decisions.

You did tell him what you want and how you feel -- and it takes men longer to process emotions and difficult conversations than it does us, so it may be several days before he figures out how to respond, or even what he feels.

Please do keep posting -- I'm so sorry you are going through all this, and I wish you well.


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## Couleur (Apr 4, 2012)

You can't change him if he doesn't want to change. It sounds to me like he is stressed and borderline depressed. He probably feels he doesn't have any energy to devote to your marriage right now. If you have the power to get him to a doctor for a checkup, I would. But, if he will simply read your asking him to go to a doctor as more nagging, I don't know that I would try. 

I think you need to do a 180 and work on yourself.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

Sorry for your situation. I think counseling is your best option at this point. If he won't go, you go alone for now.

How old are yall? How long have yall been married? Kids at home?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Couleur said:


> You can't change him if he doesn't want to change. It sounds to me like he is stressed and borderline depressed. He probably feels he doesn't have any energy to devote to your marriage right now. If you have the power to get him to a doctor for a checkup, I would. But, if he will simply read your asking him to go to a doctor as more nagging, I don't know that I would try.
> 
> I think you need to do a 180 and work on yourself.


I have worked on myself and I think that's part of the problem--he feels threatened. 

I lost a bunch of weight, had a tummy tuck, started dressing in more form fitting clothing, changed my hair, started back to school - I feel better about myself now than I have in years.

He sees a doctor regularly due to a TBI and some other health issues from a prior stroke. He sees a mental health counselor once a month. I do have a relationship with that counselor, I'm going to try and see if I can get in to see him one-on-one myself before his next session with my husband.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

BeachGuy said:


> Sorry for your situation. I think counseling is your best option at this point. If he won't go, you go alone for now.
> 
> How old are yall? How long have yall been married? Kids at home?


I'm not sure he would go at this point.

I think he is depressed.

I'm 52, he's 50 - we've been married 29 years in January 2013. 

Kids are grown and gone. Just us two and three cats.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove, sorry but he told you he doesn’t want you. He doesn’t love you. And his behaviour over time tells you exactly the same things. Surely you deserve better? To be either on your own or with somebody who loves and wants you.

Unrequited love is what you have MarriedWifeInLove. It’s a tough pill to swallow let alone digest but once you have things change for the better, believe me. But while you are in denial, things will stay the same or get worse.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I'm also curious as to what role the TBI and stroke are playing -- they can cause personality changes, right?

Sigh. So sorry. I applaud your plan to see his counselor before his next session.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> MarriedWifeInLove, sorry but he told you he doesn’t want you. He doesn’t love you. And his behaviour over time tells you exactly the same things. Surely you deserve better? To be either on your own or with somebody who loves and wants you.
> 
> Unrequited love is what you have MarriedWifeInLove. It’s a tough pill to swallow let alone digest but once you have things change for the better, believe me. But while you are in denial, things will stay the same or get worse.


Appreciate it AFEH.

But I think you're responding based on what you know from my previous posts and not what I'm asking now.

Remember the TBI and stroke--I have a bit of a different animal on my hands than the average person.

But, I'll bite with what you've said.

If that is true--then why does he stay--he can leave, he can support himself financially--why stay? And why tell me he loves me (as recent as a couple of weeks ago). If indeed he doesn't want to stay, doesn't love me and doesn't want me--then why is HE still here--he can go too, he knows where the front door is.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

lamaga said:


> I'm also curious as to what role the TBI and stroke are playing -- they can cause personality changes, right?
> 
> Sigh. So sorry. I applaud your plan to see his counselor before his next session.


Oh, it definitely has something to do with it.

He has had a massive personality change, among other changes--but that doesn't excuse everything, nor should it.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Oh, it definitely has something to do with it.
> 
> He has had a massive personality change, among other changes--but that doesn't excuse everything, nor should it.


Well, it actually kind of does, in that it's not under his control. I hope that's at least comforting, in a bizarre sort of way -- it's not you, after all.

I admire the heck out of you for dealing with all this.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

He (and of course, you) have lived through a real sh!tstorm recently

I can't see how he ISN'T depressed!

Talk to his counselor with an eye towards that first and foremost. He's probably thinking that everyone else has left me, why not my wife?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Appreciate it AFEH.
> 
> But I think you're responding based on what you know from my previous posts and not what I'm asking now.
> 
> ...


I obviously don’t know why he’s staying. I do know my wife stayed with me even though she didn’t want to. I only found that out by snooping. She was telling me one thing, others something different. It’s very two faced and dishonest.

I think all people somewhat fear change. But some fear change a lot more than others. So they’d rather stay with what they know but don’t like than go off into the unknown. So they kind of keep you on a string, half in and half out of the marriage. Uncommitted.

At the moment your husband has you “doing what you do for him” and he really sounds quite content, if not very well content and happy. It sounds like you’re the one with the problems, the unhappy one? Not your husband?

At one time I thought my life would be forever with my wife and I couldn’t be happy without her. But then I saw how unhappy she was making me while at the same time telling me she loved me. It did my head in for quite a long while.

After two years of separation I can attest to the fact that I have a really great and blessed life. Even though my wife is no longer in it. It is seriously good to have dropped all the responsibility I felt and undertook for her yet got absolutely no gratitude, no appreciation for.

It’s not nice to be unappreciated, is it?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Basically MarriedWifeInLove it sounds to me that no matter what you do or how you do it for your husband, you are actually feeling unloved, unwanted and unappreciated?

I understand loyalty. My mum and dad were married during WWII. Apparently after six long years he came back a very different man. But she stood by his side until he passed away some fifty years later, as very many of the wives did. But she wasn’t unhappy and his love for her was legendary. She knew she was loved and she felt loved. It makes a very big difference that.

I think partner’s of those with Alzheimer’s and such eventually learn to cope with the changed and changing person they live with. Maybe that’s what you need to do. Just accept him for who he is and live with him?

I do hope you have good support groups like those that do for Alzheimer’s.

If you are pretty convinced he’ll be ok by himself then maybe he’ll even be happier by himself. Again another bitter pill to swallow let alone digest if it is indeed true. But if true, once swallowed and digest your life will change for the better.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> He then responded I don’t want to try anymore. So I flat out asked him, do you not love me anymore—wouldn’t answer; do you want me to leave—answered, well if that’s what you want to do; asked him if he wanted a divorce and got “sure, yeah, ok, whatever you want.”


IMO, I think he told you what he wanted/didn't want. I know you didn't want the past brought up, BUT yes, based on things then and now I have say, IMO I think he felt that way then and thats not changed now. I'm sorry MWIL.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

MWIL, is there anything you can think of that you haven't tried? Sounds like you have tried an awful lot over the years. Maybe the one thing you haven't tried it the one thing that's the answer? I don't know what that might be, that's why I asked if there are some things you can think of that you haven't tried?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

He didn't read my apology and deleted it unread.

I have an appointment to speak with his Mental Health counselor on Monday morning.

I will be asking flat-out when I get home tonight if he wants to divorce. If he says yes, then so be it.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

CallaLily said:


> MWIL, is there anything you can think of that you haven't tried? Sounds like you have tried an awful lot over the years. Maybe the one thing you haven't tried it the one thing that's the answer? I don't know what that might be, that's why I asked if there are some things you can think of that you haven't tried?


I honestly don't know at this point except leave--haven't tried that!


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> He didn't read my apology and deleted it unread.
> 
> I have an appointment to speak with his Mental Health counselor on Monday morning.
> 
> I will be asking flat-out when I get home tonight if he wants to divorce. If he says yes, then so be it.


I have a strange feeling he wont give you a straight answer. I think he will beat around the bush, its 
how he keeps you hanging on and he knows it.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> He didn't read my apology and deleted it unread.
> 
> I have an appointment to speak with his Mental Health counselor on Monday morning.
> 
> I will be asking flat-out when I get home tonight if he wants to divorce. If he says yes, then so be it.


It can be done in an emotionally charged way! But you’re just as likely to withdraw it if done when high on emotions like you will be this evening.

I guess you know you are on the Victim Triangle? You are playing a magnificent role of the Rescuer and of course your husband is the Victim. But you too will also feel like a Victim in all this. The only thing I don’t reckon you’ve done is play the role of the Persecutor and sought your “revenge”. That’s one way of getting your self off the triangle. It happens at super quick, lightening speed and it’s “over”.

Another way is with boundaries. You make separation and divorce your boundary from his abusive behaviour. As such you see a lawyer, get your plans drawn up and present him with the papers with dates and all.

He will then know you are Very Serious. At this stage he may make all sorts of promises (or not). Whatever. You keep going all the way through with the divorce.

If you actually witness great changes in behaviour then you may indeed delay or cancel the divorce. But that will be based on his changes and a decision by you to be taken some time in the future.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

CallaLily said:


> I have a strange feeling he wont give you a straight answer. I think he will beat around the bush, its
> how he keeps you hanging on and he knows it.


And you're probably right.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> .
> 
> I then got so frustrated that I got up and tried to talk to him about what was going on. Why has it been five months and you haven’t touched me. Why are you on the computer looking at porn everyday but yet you won’t come near me. I explained that I tried to be patient, tried to give him space and it’s not working and I don’t know what else to do. He then responded I don’t want to try anymore. _*So I flat out asked him, do you not love me anymore—wouldn’t answer; do you want me to leave—answered, well if that’s what you want to do; asked him if he wanted a divorce and got “sure, yeah, ok, whatever you want.”*_
> 
> It’s obvious from his answers that he has checked out of the marriage emotionally. But yet, wasn’t firm in his answer that he wanted it over—that seemed wishy-washy to me





Sounds like passive aggressive behaviour to me.
If that's it,then from my experience its difficult to deal with,and may need a professional. Sometimes certain types of trauma can trigger it.
That's my opinion.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Sorry this is happening to you. Many of us can relate to the frustrations of them checking out.

My gut was saying 180 and seek IC for yourself. 

I wish you all the best!!!


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Major stress. You backed off. You did things I have done... stopped saying ILY, no more sex, no more hugs, cuddles. My H did the same thing. Just accepted it. And didn't move in either direction, never brought it up. You ceased fire on the whole relationship... and he simply "checked out" himself. 

I anticipate the same result for myself, if my H was even able to participate, which he is not due to depression and anxiety. 

He's NOT capable of participating, fighting, bringing things up. 
That is different than being emotionally healthy and just going along for the ride and waiting for YOU to pull the plug. Don't know where your H is at, or which one he is doing. 

As an alternative... what if you approached it with a plan to re-connect? Go to counselling, etc. If he said NO to that, that might be clearer than someone who doesn't want to say " I want a divorce" . which means the same thing as saying NO to working on things, in the end.

Stay strong. Good luck tonight.


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## EngagedGraduate (May 17, 2012)

Is he depressed?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Sounds like passive aggressive behaviour to me.
> If that's it,then from my experience its difficult to deal with,and may need a professional. Sometimes certain types of trauma can trigger it.
> That's my opinion.


I agree with you wholeheartedly on this one. 

I believe he is passive-aggressive and always has been. Has just been more evident since all of his physical and mental disabilities.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

UPDATE:

I really thought about some things on my long drive home last night and came to a couple of head-on conclusions that weren't real pretty.

I AM part of the problem. My emotions have been all over the place for the last few years and I have contributed to the state of my marriage right now. Now, my husband isn't blameless--but neither am I and the only one I'm responsible for is ME.

While I "believe" I have been the doting, supportive wife. I also have come to recognize that I've been the "picky, *****y, naggy, what about me" wife too and it's obvious that my frustration and anger over my situation has affected the way I behave and treat my husband.

Now mind you, I understand that he has a part in this too - but I've been in denial too long about my part and have put myself firmly in the martyr role for far too long. It's like someone else said on their earlier post--the victim role. 

I've changed and not for the good. I may look like the woman he married, but I'm not. I'm not his friend. Hell, I'm not even his lover at this point, I sound like his enemy.

I think I'm mad at him for what's happened to our marriage. The TBI, the stroke, all the medical issues, all the mental issues. All the things that are not his fault--I've been subsconciously making him pay for my life not turning out like I anticipated.

And none of THAT is his fault. 

So with this new mindset, when I got home I explained to him that I was sorry. I was not the wife he deserved or wanted and for that I was sorry. I was sorry for all the mean things I said that morning. My emotions have been out of control for a while and I've done nothing to get them under control, except to justify why they were out of control (again--his fault). 

I remembered something my husband said last year. He was talking about a counselling session he had with his doctor and mentioned to me that he told him that I was calm and nice to be around most of the time, but when I went off, I went ape-**** and it actually scared him because it was like I was crazy. I blew it off at the time and thought--he's crazy.

But after looking back over MY behavior on Friday morning - he's right. I was following him around, yelling, coming up with any cutting remark I could think of, you name it--out of control.

Neither one of us mentioned the word DIVORCE when I got home last night, but he did say he couldn't live with me this way any longer. That he had enough stress and issues with trying to think, walk and talk and that I was adding to that stress and that I was supposed to be the one that was helping him, not making it worse.

And he's right--dammit - he's right.

So--he mentioned several times that one of us needed to move--but he had been drinking (probably because I made him feel 1 inch tall that morning) and most of what he says when he's drinking he doesn't even remember due to his brain damage. 

We both did realize that neither of us could move now as we had nowhere to go, too many things joined together and the house will take another month or so before it's even complete to even consider ever selling it.

I went to bed early, he followed later and in the middle of the night, pulled me to him, kissed me and held me. He does love me, he just doesn't like me and I can't blame him right now.

So, here's my plan:

- I love him and want to support him
- I'm not going to take any more disrespectful behavior
- I am meeting with the mental health counselor on Monday. I'm going to talk to him about us, and then about me and why my emotions are out of control and if I need additional therapy or medication therapy to get them under control
- I've made a list of where I need to improve, as a wife and a partner in this marriage
- I've made a list of where he needs to improve in his behavior towards me (my personal list--not a list for him, that's on him)

Instead of "thinking" I'm this great, supportive wife--I'm going to start acting/talking like one.

We had a nice Saturday--nice chit chat, respectful tone, like a couple of good friends. I even got a "good night" and a kiss good night. 

So, we'll see how it works out. I'm no longer desperate, I'm going to do what's right to continue to fix me and then see what happens. My outward appearance reflects a more confident me, but my inner doesn't match. 

I have a feeling that when I am more confident, more positive, more loving and nicer--things may change.

We'll see.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

It takes two to tango MWIL!

But sometimes marriages have the most dysfunctional dance moves and inter-dynamics ever and the partners, instead of working as a team just keep getting in each others way and stepping on one another’s feet causing a great deal of grief.

In longer term marriages the dysfunctional dynamics become more and more entrenched and need an intervention to clear things up. I was going to write to you about forgiveness, but I think resentment and aggressive acts of revenge (shet testing) is just one of the problems causing your marriage dance to be so utterly dysfunctional. Take a look at the following:

_Session Topics

1. Building Strong Foundations – This session helps couples to look at their lifestyle and its effect upon their marriage, and to discover more about each other’s needs and desires – particularly on an emotional level.

2. The Art of Communication – Listening is a vital skill for a strong marriage. In this session couples practise communicating their feelings and listening effectively to one another.

3. Resolving Conflict – In this session we look at how couples can increase their intimacy by expressing appreciation to each other, recognising their differences, learning to negotiate disagreements and praying for each other (if they feel comfortable doing so).

4. The Power of Forgiveness – This session addresses the ways we will inevitably have hurt each other and how to resolve these so we don’t create a backlog of anger and resentment. We look at the process of healing through identifying the hurt, saying sorry and forgiving.

5. The Impact of Family – Past and Present – This session focuses on helping couples to recognise how their family background affects the way they relate to each other. They also consider how to build a good and healthy relationship with their parents, in-laws and wider family, and how hurt from childhood can be healed.

6. Good Sex – Sexual intimacy needs to be worked at and developed. It isn’t just the icing on the cake; it’s a vital ingredient of the cake itself. In this session couples are encouraged to talk about their sexual relationship and to recognise where they need to make changes.

7. Love in Action – This session looks at five ways of expressing love – through words, time, touch, presents and actions. Couples discover which expression of love is most important for their partner and how to put this into practice._



I was going to write to you about Session 4 but your marriage needs a lot more than that to be healthy and happy. If you like the look of the Sessions, then book yourself on a course at The Marriage Course - Explore Alpha Marriage Course | Alpha USA.

If your husband wont go, then take that as a massive sign that he’s very very comfortable with how things are right now and will never change. It wont matter how much you change if he wont. He has to get on the dance floor with you and learn the new steps such that love has a chance in your marriage and you start working with each other as a team and not against each other as enemies.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Don't blame yourself, I'm dealing with this same nonsense only from my wife. You have to let him go. That doesn't mean in the sense of "let him leave you", it means you have to become strong in yourself. I havent been able to do it yet myself, it is easier to give advice than to follow it.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> It takes two to tango MWIL!
> 
> But sometimes marriages have the most dysfunctional dance moves and inter-dynamics ever and the partners, instead of working as a team just keep getting in each others way and stepping on one another’s feet causing a great deal of grief.
> 
> ...


Thanks AFEH, I'll check it out.

Sounds very interesting and you're right, we have a lot of issues. I see one in particular on your list that has a lot to do with how he behaves--his childhood and what happened between his parents and to all their children (he has 4 brothers and sisters) - a very dysfunctional family--all the siblings have troubles with relationships and all have substance abuse issues. In fact, out of all 5 children, only two have a relationship with each other, that's my husband and his brother--his brother has been married 4 times and is currently married and has a girlfriend and going through divorce #4--they made it less than 2 years. 

My husband said to me last year the reason he hadn't given up on our marriage was because he didn't want to be a failure like his brothers and sisters, he wanted to have a successful long-term relationship and that's why he kept trying. He didn't want to be like them. So he has the right mind-set, just believe we've both been going about it the wrong way.

Things have been really peaceful this weekend. I've had to pull back on the over-the-top me (I like to talk a lot--no surprise there I'm sure), and it's something he can't handle anymore with all the mumbo-jumbo in his brain. I kept thinking he was just trying to change me and I'm realizing that he's changed and in turn, I must also if I want this marriage to work. Things ARE NOT the same and as much as I try to beat and bully them into being the same - it just isn't going to happen. 

It has taken me almost 4 years since his TBI to finally accept that things will never be the same, he will never be the same man I married. I've been so stupid just waiting for the change--that things WOULD go back to where they were if I wished it enough and tried to force that square peg into that round hole. 

I had been told by my own counselor and my husband that I just hadn't and wouldn't accept the new "normal." That until I did I was going to continue to be unsatisfied and feel unfulfilled until I accepted the change in my marriage and worked within the confines of those changes.

And I didn't--I've been a big part of the last 4 years of dysfunction. 

And I KNOW that it takes two to tango--but the person I'm tango'ing with isn't the person that pulled me out on the dance floor to start. And that is MY fault. He has adjusted his steps, but I didn't adjust mine with him and now we're both out of synch and no longer those smooth dance partners we were in the past (to use your dance metaphor).

And I can make that change ON MY PART. He's been willing, he's said so, but he's tired and just wants to have peace. He's giving up and I don't want to give up.

So I'm going to try my best to change ME. Just ME, he's responsible for changing him. I truly believe once I'm "in step" with him that things between us, while changed, will be familiar again.

Thanks again--I'll check it out--my husband is, most of the time, willing to try counselling--he has in the past and is in counselling himself but I believe it's too soon to bring it up again as he's a big resentful over some of the things I said on Friday.

Again--thanks a bunch!!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

It sounds like your H’s measurement of his marriage’s success is that he’s not divorced? Maybe he just doesn’t know that marriages are over typically a long time before separation and eventual divorce?

Given his background he wont have a clue what a healthy and happy marriage actually looks like let alone how to create it. So not only will he not have goals and objectives for his marriage, if he did he wouldn’t have a clue how to go about achieving them. All the more reason to get him on that marriage course so he can see what happy and healthy marriages actually look like and how they’re created.


But what about you? Do you not think you have the right to feel peace, joy, happiness and contentment within you? To feel loved, valued and appreciated? One things for sure, life is not a dress rehearsal for the real thing. All we know for certain is that we get just one go at it. Sit yourself down and put yourself at the age of 85 and look back and contemplate your life. And see if that perspective gives you any clues about what to do today that will be best for your future.


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## t_hopper_2012 (Apr 17, 2012)

There is so much going on right now in this picture, I want to ask one question. This guy lost three parents in the last year. How much of a pass does he get in order to deal with that? Clearly, there's work that he needs to do in this marriage, but does the clock have to start ticking right now? The work shouldn't be put off indefinitely, but does he need to get dumped because the work isn't happening immediately?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

t_hopper_2012 said:


> There is so much going on right now in this picture, I want to ask one question. This guy lost three parents in the last year. How much of a pass does he get in order to deal with that? Clearly, there's work that he needs to do in this marriage, but does the clock have to start ticking right now? The work shouldn't be put off indefinitely, but does he need to get dumped because the work isn't happening immediately?


No, he doesn't.

Its a work in progress. 

A lot has happened in our lives in the past 4 years.

- TBI and then stroke in 2008
- Both dogs passed away within 6 weeks of his injury
- My mother's house burned down, she lost everything
- Husband came out as bi-sexual, after his TBI/stroke
- Our grown daughter got divorced, has major health issues, is on SSDI (she just turned 26)
- Our son was diagnosed with Grave's Disease 
- His mother died
- His father died
- His stepfather died
- Our house flooded and we lost everything in March--still in the rebuilding process

So YES, I guess it's been a lot. It's been a lot for me too. Couple this with my caretaker duties for him (dr appt's, therapy, meds, making sure he's eaten, etc.), my full-time job, and full-time school that started in March, and YES - we have a full plate.

And YES, the stress of the house on top of it hasn't helped one bit--we were handling it fine until about a month ago and I guess it got to be too much.

So YES, we both need a break here. But, I guess since I'm the one that doesn't have the cognitive and physical issues, then I need to be the rock right now and the "I'm on it" one.

And I'm trying...I've just backed off and am just trying to be the supportive, nice wife. And I've also backed off my anger about how our lives have turned upside down. Just putting that anger aside this weekend has made a big difference--it feels more peaceful.

I will be seeing a mental health counselor tomorrow AM and we'll see if we can fit the pieces back together again.

Thanks!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> It sounds like your H’s measurement of his marriage’s success is that he’s not divorced? Maybe he just doesn’t know that marriages are over typically a long time before separation and eventual divorce?
> 
> Given his background he wont have a clue what a healthy and happy marriage actually looks like let alone how to create it. So not only will he not have goals and objectives for his marriage, if he did he wouldn’t have a clue how to go about achieving them. All the more reason to get him on that marriage course so he can see what happy and healthy marriages actually look like and how they’re created.
> 
> ...


But I do think that I am the one responsible for whether I feel peace, joy, happiness and contentment within me. 

And I'm working on it.

Leaving won't necessarily make me any happier. There are issues and problems everywhere. I need to solve those right here at home first, then if I want to leave at least I'll know that I did everything I could.

A work in progress...boy, being an adult is hard, huh?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> *But I do think that I am the one responsible for whether I feel peace, joy, happiness and contentment within me. *
> 
> And I'm working on it.
> 
> ...


For me it just depends what you mean by responsible, in what "sense" you are using the word.

If for example a person is feeling miserable and sad, frustrated and angry because they’re being bullied at work by their boss, they are obviously not responsible for the bullying. What’s perhaps not so obvious is that neither are they responsible for how they feel about being bullied. Because how they feel about the bullying or indeed anything else in a great part defines them as a person.

What is the person supposed to do? Change the way they feel about being bullied? Such that they feel joy and pleasure about it? That sure would make one crazy person.

No. They are neither responsible for the bullying or indeed are they responsible for how feel about being bullied.

Where the person’s responsibility lays is in what they do about the bullying.

So if the bullied person does nothing about the bullying then for sure they are responsible for the continuance of it and subsequently their "continued" feelings of sadness, misery, anger and frustration!


If we want to know what ails us, we do best to look to those around us as well as ourselves. Our feelings of well being (or the opposite) can be greatly dependent upon the company we keep!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

_No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee. _
John Donne

A lot of people don’t get the above. We are all linked through our emotions, our emotional responses to the people, events and things happening around us. Admittedly some more so than others, at one extreme psychopaths for example seem to live in an emotionally isolated world of their own, how else could they be so cruel? Carl Jung got it, understood these things.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

MWIL, I'm cheering for you !!!

Someone has to be the strong one, someone has to make the first move, someone has to model the behavior. 

I applaud you, in taking steps to NOT let life's crisis break you down. Stuff happens, it will happen again, and learning how to deal with it means you don't become the victim.

Yes, it's okay to ask what he should be doing. In time. 
Even if HE stepped up right now and did A, B, C, you would need to be in a better place yourself to see it and accept it. Emotions, anger, resentment, would cloud you from it.

I would bet in a few months, if you are working on yourself, things will look a lot differently, and he might be more open to stepping up himself. 

It's like turning the tables. Refusing to let life's crap turn you into a bitter person. And if he doesn't want to follow your lead... well, then you are so much better off anyways. So how can you lose? 

Good luck, and be strong.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> It sounds like your H’s measurement of his marriage’s success is that he’s not divorced? Maybe he just doesn’t know that marriages are over typically a long time before separation and eventual divorce?
> 
> Given his background he wont have a clue what a healthy and happy marriage actually looks like let alone how to create it. So not only will he not have goals and objectives for his marriage, if he did he wouldn’t have a clue how to go about achieving them. All the more reason to get him on that marriage course so he can see what happy and healthy marriages actually look like and how they’re created.
> 
> ...


Of course I do.

But I also know that my happiness is dependent on me, other people can't make me happy. And THAT is where I have failed in the past.

I've actually done what you mentioned above and put myself 20 years down the road, would I be happy with the decisions I made? I have to honestly answer that as a yes. 

I promised to love, honor, obey until death do us part, in sickness and in health--and I meant it. Life dealt us a blow like others who have experienced the same thing. And I'm not the type of person to run at the first sign of trouble. That's when I actually dig my heels in and do whatever is necessary to make things right.

I know I can only change me. But he's not adverse to change. This is a man who previously thought "counselling" was a dirty word. He not only is in counselling, but voluntarily. He has a one-on-one with his mental health counselor, he is in two weekly counselling groups for anger management and PTSD--and we both were previously seeing a counselor together. So believe me, that was a long way from where his stance used to be. He's admitted on several occasions that he knows "he's messed up" and he's sorry, but he's trying.

Me too - I know I have my own issues and I'm trying.

I need this man. Can I live without him, sure - but I don't want to. So I'm willing to throw out a life preserver until there are none left. It's just how I was raised. If I was miserable and didn't need/love this man--I would have been gone long ago.

But it's not that simple. For anyone out there who has had a spouse that has experienced traumatic medical injuries/issues, it's hard to explain. I feel responsible for make sure he's safe and cared for. It's my job as his spouse.

I appreciate all your advice.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

wifeinsa said:


> Here is what i would do
> 1. ask him to go to therapy with you.
> 2. If he refuses then you go alone, find a professional that can assist you in making choices about your future, and dealing with your current feelings.
> 3. If leaving is not an option bc you are not ready or willing that that is fine, but start making a plan in case you do decide to leave. Decide if you need money, a job, have some back up plan. Hopefully you will not have to use it, but there may come a day when you are ready to leave and you should try and leave on your terms when you are mind and money is in the right place.
> ...


Thanks for your input.

The porn issue is a little more involved due to the damage to his brain that centers around sexual feelings/orientation.

But--we're working on it. 

Thanks again.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

deejov said:


> MWIL, I'm cheering for you !!!
> 
> Someone has to be the strong one, someone has to make the first move, someone has to model the behavior.
> 
> ...


Thanks--you're right.

Emotions, anger, resentment have clouded it.

I've realized over the last few days that I am mad--at him. I'm mad because my life is not what it used to be or I expected it to be and I'm mad at him because he got sick/injured.

Silly I know, but I've realized that is what the major problem is with ME. So I've worked really hard the last few days to set the anger aside and look at things as "well, this is how it is, how are you going to deal with it now." That has made a HUGE difference, I can feel the anger is lifting. My husband and counselor have been telling me for the last couple of years that I was in denial as to the real situation with my husband and how it actually was. And I kept telling them they were wrong, I knew how it was but I was holding onto hope it would change.

And it's not going to. I was in denial. Now, I'm trying to look at things as they really are, not what I wish they were or could be. 

I saw the mental health counselor yesterday and I start in a SAFE group tomorrow that deals with emotions, anger, resentment and how to recognize and work through them. I've also received a referral to get a psychiatrist to help deal with my issues and how I feel about his problems. 

So I'm on the right track and I'm sure I'll get there, eventually. I'm a pretty stubborn gal, I don't give up easily.

Thanks for your support.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would do two things: Tell his counselor how MUCH porn/etc. he is using and ask his counselor to address it; let counselor know how close you two are to divorce and that this is a major issue.

Read His Needs Her Needs (again, if you've already read it), and follow the Plan.

PS: Did you meet his IC yesterday? What happened?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

turnera said:


> I would do two things: Tell his counselor how MUCH porn/etc. he is using and ask his counselor to address it; let counselor know how close you two are to divorce and that this is a major issue.
> 
> Read His Needs Her Needs (again, if you've already read it), and follow the Plan.
> 
> PS: Did you meet his IC yesterday? What happened?


Yes I did meet his IC yesterday.

He knows we're at crisis level.

I also informed him of the porn and the change in sexuality--he was not surprised. Can be due to the TBI and stroke--the part of his brain that controls impulse and sexuality is damaged--they've told me that before (doesn't make it easier, but at least I know where it's coming from).

He used to always like porn but it ramped WAY UP after his TBI, I mean WAY UP--it's almost like it's his job now--wake up, brush teeth, have coffee, look at porn. Eat lunch, look at porn. Eat dinner, takes his meds, look at porn, then go to bed. 

Based on what I saw in the last few months, it's even when the contractors are in the house rebuilding and painting. I know he's not masturbating in front of them! 

It's like it's a habit. I did mention to him, gently and non-confrontationally that I thought he had a porn addiction and that perhaps he should address it. He didn't argue with me or anything, just sat listening, no response, no defensiveness--so maybe he "heard" me, maybe he didn't. I just know I'm not wasting anymore of MY ENERGY worrying about what he's looking at on the internet--I'm done there.

But, still addressing it. 

IC sees him again in 2 weeks, is going to try to delve into our relationship, intimacy and how things are going without asking directly (that's the best way to get my husband to open up, especially since the TBI).

But thanks, I'll keep you guys posted--nice to see you're still here.


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