# Would You Ladies Date A "Feminine" Man?



## EllisRedding

First off, this has nothing to do with me because a) I am not a feminine man and b) whether you know it or not, ya all would date me so it wouldn't even be a question >

Driving to work with the usual Blown Off radio segment, this guy (for ease let's call him Buddy ) was at a golf outing for his job, met this lady (for ease let's call her Olivia  ) who was working the outing. Long story short, they spend the entire time flirting, a week or so after texting, finally go out to dinner (a higher end steakhouse), Buddy thinks the date went awesome but Olivia never responds back to his texts, radio show gets involved ...

Radio gets Olivia on the phone. Olivia says the date went well, he came across as somewhat of a manly man at the golf outing which was part of the appeal. Olivia's issues at the dinner were:

a) Buddy ordered a lemon drop as his drink
b) Buddy had a salad as his main meal ... at a steakhouse
c) When Olivia's dessert came out, Buddy was all ecstatic over the presentation/appearance (Olivia termed it he sounded like an excited little girl and was embarrassed at his reaction which could be heard by others)
d) Buddy kept talking about how great the Disney animation movie "Inside Out" was.

Olivia was turned off because what she thought was a somewhat masculine guy prior to dinner turned to be rather feminine (in her opinion). 

So ladies of TAM, if you were on a date like this, would this be an automatic turnoff?

I found this call interesting only because IMO there seems to be somewhat an identity crisis amongst younger males on what exactly it means to be a "man" (I guess the whole alpha vs beta stuff).

Disclaimer: Any names mentioned here are purely coincidental and do not represent actual members of TAM


----------



## MJJEAN

Lemon drop? Salad at a STEAKHOUSE??!?! Going all fan gurl over dessert? I'd highly suspect he's gay. I would totally be Buddy's friend, but would not date him.


----------



## john117

Good riddance.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Friend zone....


----------



## Maricha75

The salad wouldn't bother me, even at a steakhouse. But the rest would turn me off.


----------



## ne9907

I would not date a feminine man. I have broken up with a man before because his laughter was too "girlish"


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I appreciate enough BETA in a man that he makes a darn good listener.. doesn't mind shopping with his wife .. is a family sort of guy... is very affectionate.. 

But I also love when a man has the belief that a MAN is to protect women -as he is physically stronger, some of that "chivalry" doesn't bother me a bit!

If being a Manly man involves being a sports fanatic, always going to the gym, thinks being Buff is the end all...I'll take some gay-ish traits in exchange (so long as he's only into women & loves sex).... 

If being a Manly man has to do with possessing "Mechanical" skills, can build things, Handy man type... can crawl under a car & fix anything .. getting us women out of a bind... I would swoon.. 

I don't even know what a Lemon drop is.. getting a salad of any sort for a meal wouldn't bother me in the least.. (don't think my husband would ever choose that out & about though)...

My husband is a "softer" sort of guy.. not the aggressive gruff high Test type ...He wouldn't get excited over a presentation like that.. he might fall asleep though...I'd be more inclined to get excited & want to discuss "Inside Out' after the movie.. ha ha.. and have done just that.. he just listens to all my dribble.. 

If a man talked too much.. if his voice sounded on the gay side..such things would throw an immediate wall to attraction (for me)...

There has to be "*a line*" with all of us.. My own mother has told me she's never been attracted to men like my husband.. she would go more for a young Marlon Brando type (some bad a$$) like in the movie "the WILD ONE"..

 I don't need that much bad $$ for attraction.. I'd find a good looking geek just as







..


----------



## Rowan

I can appreciate a man who has refined tastes, and any one of those points likely wouldn't have been a deal breaker to me. But the combination of all of them in one evening, on a first date no less, might have been. A routinely effeminate man would be a turn-off. 

I also suspect that, as it was a first date, she lacked a background of other observed masculine behaviors with which to mentally balance his effeminate behaviors. Maybe he usually orders a good scotch but wanted to try something new that night. Maybe he usually orders a bloody ribeye but had a huge lunch with a work client and just wasn't hungry. Maybe he only took pics of the beautiful dessert because he knows his daughter, currently training as a pastry chef, would find it so cool and he's a good daddy. But on this one night, his date had no way of knowing any of that. She had to go with the image which was presented - which was of a guy who orders a chick c0cktail, eats salads at a steakhouse and goes all fangurl over the plating of the dessert course.


----------



## nirvana

I believe women have a "gay-dar" which begins to beep when they encounter feminine/gay men and then they do not look at them as a romantic interest. However, when the gaydar goes off, they can consider the guy to be a good friend material and like a girlfriend.

Just a theory, but I wonder if some men go all femme because they think it will impress the ladies? Men these days are no longer as manly as earlier.


----------



## Lostme

Not that anything is wrong with feminine men, but they don't do it for me so I wouldn't date one.


----------



## EllisRedding

nirvana said:


> I believe women have a "gay-dar" which begins to beep when they encounter feminine/gay men and then they do not look at them as a romantic interest. However, when the gaydar goes off, they can consider the guy to be a good friend material and like a girlfriend.


I get a similar beeper at Cheesecake Factory when we are waiting to be seated 



nirvana said:


> Just a theory, but I wonder if some men go all femme because they think it will impress the ladies? Men these days are no longer as manly as earlier.


Interesting, so in the past where maybe a man would dial up the alpha to try and impress his date, nowadays it may go in the reverse?


----------



## EllisRedding

Rowan said:


> I can appreciate a man who has refined tastes, and any one of those points likely wouldn't have been a deal breaker to me. But the combination of all of them in one evening, on a first date no less, might have been. A routinely effeminate man would be a turn-off.


Completely agreed, all on a first date is a lot to take in.


----------



## norajane

It never seemed to hold Prince back...


----------



## EllisRedding

norajane said:


> It never seemed to hold Prince back...


There "might" be a slight difference between your average guy and a rock star 

Do you thin Prince would have fared as well if he was just a regular Accountant?


----------



## MRR

Interesting topic. 

A FWB I had several months last summer was very recently divorced. Our kids go to the same school, so I had occasion to meet her ex at a school function. I had seen him before and he looked like a normal guy, but when she introduced him....wow. He was very feminine and had a very...feminine way of talking/sounding. I was shocked. 

Saw him again this AM dropping D off at school and was wondering how she was with him over 15 years. I guess there was some appeal at some point but the mannerisms. 

I am awful for saying all this. Also I am not a big 'manly man'. But he definitely seems gay. She actually thinks, now, he is gay.


----------



## GTdad

EllisRedding said:


> a) Buddy ordered a lemon drop as his drink


I'm not sure what a Lemon Drop is, but some of the drinks my wife orders when we're out, like raspberry bellinis, are pretty tasty. Probably pretty dangerous, too; you can't even taste the alcohol.

Ordering one on a first date seems like a pretty dicey move, though.


----------



## EllisRedding

GTdad said:


> I'm not sure what a Lemon Drop is, but some of the drinks my wife orders when we're out, like raspberry bellinis, are pretty tasty. Probably pretty dangerous, too; you can't even taste the alcohol.
> 
> Ordering one on a first date seems like a pretty dicey move, though.


Lemon drop, I think it would be the equivalent of ordering a Fuzzy Naval or a drink with an umbrella.


----------



## Rowan

A lemon drop, in it's purest form, is simply vodka, lemon juice and a hint of sugar, shaken together with ice then served in a martini glass. A lemon martini, basically. The ones you get in restaurants and bars, however, are all too often made with a c0cktail mix. They're frequently very sweet, violently artificially colored, and served in a glass rimmed with technicolor sugar. So, even if you order one that is made the correct way, when people hear "lemon drop" they tend to envision a really girly confection of a drink.


----------



## norajane

EllisRedding said:


> There "might" be a slight difference between your average guy and a rock star
> 
> Do you thin Prince would have fared as well if he was just a regular Accountant?


Lol, accountants are very detail oriented, which can make for an excellent lover! Depends on what a girl's priorities are, I guess. >


----------



## Blossom Leigh

One of the things that drew me to my H is he is a Whiskey man. 

Ten tatt's 

Tall dark and handsome.

BUT is deeply empathetic and emotionally intelligent and intellectual. So, he's got a great balance.

This guy doesn't have enough edge for me. He is probably funny and fun, but that would be about it.


----------



## NobodySpecial

EllisRedding said:


> Radio gets Olivia on the phone. Olivia says the date went well, he came across as somewhat of a manly man at the golf outing which was part of the appeal. Olivia's issues at the dinner were:
> 
> a) Buddy ordered a lemon drop as his drink


Not a problem.


> b) Buddy had a salad as his main meal ... at a steakhouse


Not a problem. My DH often chooses healthy options regardless.


> c) When Olivia's dessert came out, Buddy was all ecstatic over the presentation/appearance (Olivia termed it he sounded like an excited little girl and was embarrassed at his reaction which could be heard by others)


Not a fan of going all squeee.



> d) Buddy kept talking about how great the Disney animation movie "Inside Out" was.


That's just snore.

On balance, no. But not related to feminine. Just boring and not for me.


----------



## karole

GTdad said:


> I'm not sure what a Lemon Drop is, but some of the drinks my wife orders when we're out, like raspberry bellinis, are pretty tasty. Probably pretty dangerous, too; you can't even taste the alcohol.
> 
> Ordering one on a first date seems like a pretty dicey move, though.


I thought it was referring to a Lemon Drop Martini.


----------



## karole

He would not be my cup of tea at all. I don't like girly and/or soft men.


----------



## Fozzy

FrenchFry said:


> Depending on what he thought about "Inside Out," I might have a second date with that guy.


Inside Out was awesome, and anybody who says different is going to get a Lemon Drop in their face.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Drink - eh not a big deal. But he might not be able to hang with the dirty martini before dinner followed by wine with dinner and the Makers Mark neat after dinner. I think I have bigger balls than the guy in question here. Grey Goose Citron over ice with a lemon wedge would have been a better option.

Salad would make me wonder if he eats more daintily than I do (which isn't very) and would make me self conscious and tho that's MY issue to own, I'm just saying I'd rather the guy order something more substantial than what I order.

Dessert - if he is a bit of a foodie that's fine - did he SQUEAL? Not a fan of animated movies. I no longer have children under the age of 13 so don't have to see them - yay!

I would probably give him a second chance to see what panned out the second time but the totality of the circumstances was a bit effeminate.


----------



## EllisRedding

EnjoliWoman said:


> I think I have bigger balls than the guy in question here.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

LOL!!


----------



## Maricha75

Well, as I said, all but the salad would be a turn off, but not because I see those things as overly feminine. Though I had never heard of a Lemon Drop, I assumed it was an alcoholic drink. I don't drink, so that would be a turn off. I don't get overly excited over desserts, so if I was on a date and he did, it would come across as weird, to me... and turn me off. And talking excessively about a cartoon movie... I do that enough with the kids, so it would make me feel like I was out with a kid.


----------



## MRR

FrenchFry said:


> Reasons I'd be into this guy based on scant details given:
> 
> *Isn't afraid to order what he likes, given the venue
> *Gets excited over food like I do
> *Watches the movies I'd be into.
> 
> I don't know, I guess I have different view of masculinity because it doesn't sound overly feminine to me. The Inside Out thing might be a mark of immaturity for me--at the same time I would have absolutely seen the movie without my kid.


I think our imagination/interpretation of the guy is the main determining factor here. Obviously we are getting facts in black and white and making our own judgements on what that might mean the guy is like. 

To me, the lemon drop ( I know it as a shot of vodka with lemon and sugar on the side), move and salad thing do not matter as much as the squealing over desert. In my imagination, I basically see an effeminate man, typically considered gay by any observers, though I do know many such men who are or have been married. This is why I relayed the previous story about my FWB's ex. Some women apparently are not turned off by that, and that surprised me. Then again they are divorced now. so...?


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
Maybe its just me, but I've learned not to judge manliness too quickly. 

Two guys I know at work:.

One is tall, sort of slender - talks excitedly, quite a nerd. Except - he also runs endurance races (tough-mudder style), and once literally saved his girlfriends life at great risk to his own saving her from deadly surf onto rocks. 

The other is medium build computer sysadmin sort. Really nice unassuming guy. Walks with a slight limp. Knew him for many years before I found out (from one of his friends) where the limp came from. He was in special forces and the only survivor when his helicopter was shot down in combat. 

Same goes for women. I recently found out that one of the women I work with is an ultra-marathoner.


----------



## tech-novelist

FrenchFry said:


> Depending on what he thought about "Inside Out," I might have a second date with that guy.


I liked Inside Out (and most other Pixar films), and I'm not girly.


----------



## citygirl4344

I have dated a feminine man.
In university I dated a guy who went for manicures weekly...went tanning. Obsessed about his hair.
Talking to him was like talking to a girlfriend.
When he first asked me out I was like "are you for real?"
But the sex was amazing.

My point is you can't judge by these incidents how he will be as a partner both sexually and in life.
She declined him at face value before getting to know him. That's a turn off for me.




Sent from my iPhone


----------



## SecondTime'Round

I dated a man for a few months about 5 years ago who was quite feminine. He was also in his late 40s and never married. He was very artistic, favorite color purple, etc. He frequently made jokes about being gay (himself). I admit I did have a hard time with it. I couldn't really imagine introducing him to my kids and what their dad would say about him/put in their heads. 

But, he was the kindest man I've ever met, let alone dated. As far as I know he's been dating the same girl for a couple of years now and I think they bought a house together.


----------



## EllisRedding

citygirl4344 said:


> I have dated a feminine man.
> In university I dated a guy who went for manicures weekly...went tanning. Obsessed about his hair.
> Talking to him was like talking to a girlfriend.
> When he first asked me out I was like "are you for real?"
> But the sex was amazing.
> 
> My point is you can't judge by these incidents how he will be as a partner both sexually and in life.
> She declined him at face value before getting to know him. That's a turn off for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Excellent points. Really the question it brings up, are you willing to look past possible turn offs at the onset to get to know someone before deciding? That is really a tough call b/c we all have likes/dislikes, and some are just stronger than others where it is impossible to look past. Maybe not on the same level, but for me I can't stand smoking. If I went on a first date and found out she smoked, no matter how awesome she may be in every other avenue, that is a deal breaker, there will be no second date.


----------



## RainbowBrite

EllisRedding said:


> this guy (for ease let's call him Buddy ) was at a golf outing for his job, met this lady (for ease let's call her Olivia  ) who was working the outing. Long story short, they spend the entire time flirting, a week or so after texting, finally go out to dinner (a higher end steakhouse), Buddy thinks the date went awesome but Olivia never responds back to his texts, radio show gets involved ...
> 
> Radio gets Olivia on the phone. Olivia says the date went well, he came across as somewhat of a manly man at the golf outing which was part of the appeal. Olivia's issues at the dinner were:
> 
> a) Buddy ordered a lemon drop as his drink
> b) Buddy had a salad as his main meal ... at a steakhouse
> c) When Olivia's dessert came out, Buddy was all ecstatic over the presentation/appearance (Olivia termed it he sounded like an excited little girl and was embarrassed at his reaction which could be heard by others)
> d) Buddy kept talking about how great the Disney animation movie "Inside Out" was.
> 
> Olivia was turned off because what she thought was a somewhat masculine guy prior to dinner turned to be rather feminine (in her opinion).



I'm trying to think about your question, but there's something about this story that I find a little distracting...can't quite put my finger on it...


----------



## EllisRedding

OliviaG said:


> I'm trying to think about your question, but there's something about this story that I find a little distracting...can't quite put my finger on it...


Whoa Whoa Whoa, back it down there killer. Please re read my disclaimer in my original post. Any similarities to members of TAM is purely coincidental and should not be construed as otherwise :grin2:

Funny (or strange actually), about two minutes after I wrote the first post I got an email at work from a guy named Buddy (I have never gotten an email or ever dealt with anyone named Buddy at work before). A few minutes after that I needed to follow up with a client, and sure enough her name was Olivia. Kinda freaky. I am wondering if maybe now I have special powers where whatever I write comes true. If so, watch out TAM, my posts are about to get real interesting


----------



## nirvana

Ladies, I have a question.
Do you feel "safer" around a gay/feminine man?

What I mean is, when a woman meets a straight man, there is some chance that he may make a pass at her, so I think most women have some barriers up. When a gay man, those barriers are down and there is no "danger". Is this theory valid?


----------



## nirvana

EllisRedding said:


> Whoa Whoa Whoa, back it down there killer. Please re read my disclaimer in my original post. Any similarities to members of TAM is purely coincidental and should not be construed as otherwise :grin2:
> 
> Funny (or strange actually), about two minutes after I wrote the first post I got an email at work from a guy named Buddy (I have never gotten an email or ever dealt with anyone named Buddy at work before). A few minutes after that I needed to follow up with a client, and sure enough her name was Olivia. Kinda freaky. I am wondering if maybe now I have special powers where whatever I write comes true. If so, watch out TAM, my posts are about to get real interesting


I bet after the days work, you went home, opened a beer, plopped on the couch and attained NIRVANA.


----------



## sidney2718

This thread is fascinating. I particularly loved the posts by those who are interested in MANLY men and not wimpy betas.

The MANLY man described by several could also be an Attila the Hun in jeans. Now there was a manly man. Ended up with the woman he forced to "marry" him stabbing him in the chest on their marriage bed. I guess he was a bit too manly.


----------



## TiggyBlue

FrenchFry said:


> Reasons I'd be into this guy based on scant details given:
> 
> *Isn't afraid to order what he likes, given the venue
> *Gets excited over food like I do
> *Watches the movies I'd be into.
> 
> I don't know, I guess I have different view of masculinity because it doesn't sound overly feminine to me. The Inside Out thing might be a mark of immaturity for me--at the same time I would have absolutely seen the movie without my kid.


 :iagree:


----------



## turnera

I've been married to a metrosexual man for 36 years. Didn't realize it at first. But it's definitely been a strange ride. No sports in the house. I gave up watching NFL because he griped so much. He's been using face cream etc. for 30 years. He always bought me clothes, jewelry and perfume...because that is what HE wanted; took me 30 years to figure this out and just give him what he wants instead of the tools I kept giving him, hoping he'd take care of our home. When he gets hurt, he whines like a baby because that's how his mama treated him growing up when he was hurt; I ignore him and put on the bandaid and do something else (I do this now, 36 years later; the first 30 years, I babied him just like his mom). He's super vain and extremely concerned for his public image, while ignoring me.

So...no, I guess I wouldn't, if this guy had the same issues. Knowing what I know now.


----------



## MJJEAN

nirvana said:


> Ladies, I have a question.
> Do you feel "safer" around a gay/feminine man?
> 
> What I mean is, when a woman meets a straight man, there is some chance that he may make a pass at her, so I think most women have some barriers up. When a gay man, those barriers are down and there is no "danger". Is this theory valid?


I actually feel LESS safe with effeminate men. When with an effeminate man I feel as though if some shyte goes down I'd be on my own.


----------



## Maricha75

nirvana said:


> Ladies, I have a question.
> Do you feel "safer" around a gay/feminine man?
> 
> What I mean is, when a woman meets a straight man, there is some chance that he may make a pass at her, so I think most women have some barriers up. When a gay man, those barriers are down and there is no "danger". Is this theory valid?


Nah. I actually dated an effeminate man once. To be fair, he came out a few years later, but we dated for a couple months. But, I still felt safe with him, even after we broke up, and even after he came out. And, whether gay or straight, it makes no difference. If he has my back, then that's it. I know I can trust him, and he will make me feel safe, irrespective of his sexuality or his mannerisms.


----------



## Mr The Other

turnera said:


> I've been married to a metrosexual man for 36 years. Didn't realize it at first. But it's definitely been a strange ride. No sports in the house. I gave up watching NFL because he griped so much. He's been using face cream etc. for 30 years. He always bought me clothes, jewelry and perfume...because that is what HE wanted; took me 30 years to figure this out and just give him what he wants instead of the tools I kept giving him, hoping he'd take care of our home. When he gets hurt, he whines like a baby because that's how his mama treated him growing up when he was hurt; I ignore him and put on the bandaid and do something else (I do this now, 36 years later; the first 30 years, I babied him just like his mom). He's super vain and extremely concerned for his public image, while ignoring me.
> 
> So...no, I guess I wouldn't, if this guy had the same issues. Knowing what I know now.


This is one of the most revealing posts I have read about your marriage.

I have seen marriages where the man has a strong feminine demanding side. These marriage always seem to last a long time, even if the woman is unhappy. I do not understand this.


----------



## Fozzy

Personal said:


> In large part I think Prince would have fared just as well.
> 
> He was a rock star because it was already in him.
> 
> "Would You Ladies Date A "Feminine" Man?"
> 
> I can't speak for the women here yet lots of women have dated (pursued) me, of which a few of them wanted to marry me and two did.
> 
> At 5'3" I'm shorter than most men and many women and I've been told by a few of my female sexual partners "you're so gay", I figure they mean I'm feminine in some way.
> 
> I hate camping, hate fishing and except for the Tour de France I don't watch any sport at all ever because I find it all rather boring. Except for volleyball and infantry I've always hated playing any team sports. Instead I love live music, live theatre, visiting art galleries and museums as well. On the other hand even when my work is on the wall, I loathe gallery openings, because some of the people at such events really are extraordinarily vapid.
> 
> When dating I've always used hair products and cared about my appearance, while I also tend to wear elegant brand name clothes and fancy Italian shoes as well. In order of alcoholic drink preferences I always drink c0cktails, bottled vodka mixer drinks (girlie drinks), cream based liqueurs, whiskey and vodka and won't touch beer at all.
> 
> At the same time I'm also a foodie so although I am not effusive about it I actually care about what I eat while I am out and won't eat anything that I consider to be subpar. That said when I was an infantryman food was just fuel, so I would eat pretty much anything that was thrown into my cups canteen steel. I also have little interest in cars as such and even less interest in what makes them work, that said I'd love to own an immaculate metallic green Citroën DS21.
> 
> Amongst others some of my favourite music that I sing along to is from Bronski Beat, Cat Power, Harry Connick Jr, Franz Ferdinand, Madonna, Perfume Genius, Pet Shop Boys, Placebo, Prince, Sade, Barbra Streisand, Tears For Fears, Suzanne Vega and Wham. I also hate music by AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Cold Chisel, Guns n' Roses, Led Zeppelin and Metallica.
> 
> I buy my wife Review and Lindy Bop dresses, while she also asks me to come clothes shopping with her because she thinks I have exquisite taste, on the other hand I don't let her pick or buy clothes for me. I also paint watercolours, write poetry and carry a small sketch book and draw while i'm in cafe's.
> 
> I've even turned down a variety of explicit offers of sex from different women through many years when I was single (wasn't attracted to them) and when I was partnered (being a serial monogamist).
> 
> I also tend to gravitate towards people who are alternative, arty and rather hedonistic as well. I also don't play to a type or do things to please others since I am always just who I am.
> 
> As to man card stuff, I joined the Regular Army (full-time) when I was 17, ended up in infantry and before I became an NCO I was either the Scout or humped the Section GPMG. When I left infantry I was a Reserve Platoon Sergeant, I've done caving, rappelled down cliffs and thrown myself out of aeroplanes as well.
> 
> I've successfully protected my wife from threat by shoving that guy out of the way or beating the crap out of that intruder. Yet I've also failed to protect her as well. I can't stop 1.5 tons of steel travelling at speed when I'm holding her hand crossing the road, that said although I was covered in her blood I did help her immediately after she was hit.
> 
> At the end of the day though this non "manly" Perfume Genius fan (thanks @Curse of Millhaven), has never lacked for female suitors & offers and has never lacked frequent & plentiful sex in all of my sexual relationships.
> 
> I fiind it rather ironic that there are plenty of men who participate here on the TAM forums who are manly or worry about being manly. Yet many of them claim that women aren't very sexual or only want "bad boys", or that sex dries up or sex acts end when women get married and or have babies and likewise complain about being in sexless marriages as well.
> 
> Whereas I'm not conventionally manly and have never worried about being manly, yet I've often been asked out on dates by plenty of women and offered sex by them as well. Plus I've had some dump their boyfriends to be with me, had some offer me sex despite being married to someone else. I've had some of them deeply hurt when I ended relationships with them, had them pay for dates as well. And have also had them do anything I like sexually (without persuasion no matter how extreme) with tremendous frequency and enthusiasm without it ever drying up in any relationship.
> 
> Sexual success has far more to do with having confidence, oozing sex, being good at it, mutual attraction, choosing well and having that something that draws people in rather than being masculine or feminine of whichever gender you are.


But did you like Inside Out?


----------



## Fozzy

Personal said:


> I hate all Pixar animation stuff!


/lemon drop in face


----------



## citygirl4344

nirvana said:


> Ladies, I have a question.
> 
> Do you feel "safer" around a gay/feminine man?
> 
> 
> 
> What I mean is, when a woman meets a straight man, there is some chance that he may make a pass at her, so I think most women have some barriers up. When a gay man, those barriers are down and there is no "danger". Is this theory valid?




Interesting question.
Plays into all the generalizations we have in our head about someone who is strong being a protector when that always isn't the case.
I know a guy who is really macho... Lifts weights, tattoos etc. your typical protector type guy but he is gay. Sorts blows all the stereotypes out. This guy could easily attack me doesn't matter if he's gay or straight.


----------



## always_alone

I can't even imagine deciding someone is "too feminine" based on what they eat and drink.

So does this mean guys can't so much as have a pina colada without someone questioning their manhood? And must they stick to only cooked vegetables? Or is salad acceptable in some venues, just not a steakhouse? Or it must be less than a certain proportion of a meal?

I don't get it.


----------



## aine

I would try to get to know him first before making any judgments but tbh I wouldn't be into a feminine man, I like my men to be men


----------



## EllisRedding

always_alone said:


> I can't even imagine deciding someone is "too feminine" based on what they eat and drink.
> 
> So does this mean guys can't so much as have a pina colada without someone questioning their manhood? And must they stick to only cooked vegetables? Or is salad acceptable in some venues, just not a steakhouse? Or it must be less than a certain proportion of a meal?
> 
> I don't get it.


In the case of the caller, I believe it was a combination of everything (in particular what she termed as him reacting like a little girl when her dessert arrived). Just going purely off what she stated on the call (the guy was on the call as well and didn't dispute anything she said).


----------



## thefam

Well Im looking at it from the standpoint of could I picture Prince doing all these things at dinner? Absolutely. 

Could I date Prince from what Ive seen of him?

Absolutely. In a heartbeat. No question about it. 

If I were single of course.


----------



## Rowan

always_alone said:


> I can't even imagine deciding someone is "too feminine" based on what they eat and drink.
> 
> So does this mean guys can't so much as have a pina colada without someone questioning their manhood? And must they stick to only cooked vegetables? Or is salad acceptable in some venues, just not a steakhouse? Or it must be less than a certain proportion of a meal?
> 
> I don't get it.


I honestly don't care if a guy orders a fruity drink or a salad or wants to watch kid-movies. In fact, sometimes those things are awesome! But, if a man strikes me as being feminine, those might be some of the things that contribute to that impression. And, apparently, the guy in question came across to his date as being more feminine that she prefers. What that really translates to is that she found the sum total of his behaviors on their first date to be sexually off-putting. She doesn't appear to be behaving hatefully towards him because she thinks he's too feminine, he's just not someone she wants to date again or develop a relationship with. 

A lot of women are not sexually attracted to men who display more feminine (in that woman's perception) behaviors. Others are just fine with a more metrosexual guy. Some greatly prefer it. But there's nothing wrong with a woman finding a man's behavior a little too effeminate for her personal taste and declining a second date based on that. They are incompatible. No harm, no foul.

ETA: The whole squealing and causing a scene over dessert would have actually been the deal-breaker for me. I would just find that obnoxious, as well as sexually repellant.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

While I try to not judge people on my first impression or innocuous things like their drink/food choices, because I'm not uber-feminine, it does take a more typical man for me to FEEL feminine. And as cliche as it sounds, I DO compare men to my Dad. An engineer who knew how to fix/do a lot of things, enjoyed watching football and baseball (played baseball in amateur league as a young man), was strong from work vs. gym, tall (6'1"), calm and firm. Never yelled, thoughtful and gentle when it came to mom, me and sis. Tender with creatures and nature. THAT is my perfect man. Maybe that's why his death gutted me so.

When I married my husband was pretty handy, tall, muscular, confident, quite masculine but after marriage the arrogant azz side came out. But I've dated men who had a variety of these characteristics and some less "manly" ones - the snappy dresser with Italian leather shoes, the sports fanatic who didn't know a socket wrench from an adjustable wrench and mr fixit who didn't care for sports. So it really comes down to the vibe I get in person.

But I suppose I'm a little old fashioned in that I'd like for my man to know a little bit more about certain things than me and still feel like he's my protector. I've learned things because I had to and because I loved hanging with my Dad helping him but honestly I'd be happy in the traditional female role of cooking/cleaning/laundry and leave the DIY/auto/lawncare to the man. If he can do those things while dressing snappy, drinking lemon drops and liking pixar, so be it!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

thefam said:


> Well Im looking at it from the standpoint of could I picture Prince doing all these things at dinner? Absolutely.
> 
> Could I date Prince from what Ive seen of him?
> 
> Absolutely. In a heartbeat. No question about it.
> 
> If I were single of course.


I could not date Prince.

But I do think the closest I could get to dating an artsy type is Johnny Depp.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
I thought bodybuilder types being gay WAS a stereotype :smile2:

Seriously I don't think that there is any clear correlation between orientation and manliness of appearance. There are gay men who are effeminate and gay men who are ultra-macho and everything in between. 

Some gay men appreciate "manliness" as much as women do. Those truck commercials where two young muscled guys drive out into the wilderness - they aren't advertising to the heterosexual crowd. 




citygirl4344 said:


> Interesting question.
> Plays into all the generalizations we have in our head about someone who is strong being a protector when that always isn't the case.
> I know a guy who is really macho... Lifts weights, tattoos etc. your typical protector type guy but he is gay. Sorts blows all the stereotypes out. This guy could easily attack me doesn't matter if he's gay or straight.


----------



## CatJayBird

turnera said:


> I've been married to a metrosexual man for 36 years. Didn't realize it at first. But it's definitely been a strange ride. No sports in the house. I gave up watching NFL because he griped so much. He's been using face cream etc. for 30 years. He always bought me clothes, jewelry and perfume...because that is what HE wanted; took me 30 years to figure this out and just give him what he wants instead of the tools I kept giving him, hoping he'd take care of our home. When he gets hurt, he whines like a baby because that's how his mama treated him growing up when he was hurt; I ignore him and put on the bandaid and do something else (I do this now, 36 years later; the first 30 years, I babied him just like his mom). He's super vain and extremely concerned for his public image, while ignoring me.
> 
> So...no, I guess I wouldn't, if this guy had the same issues. Knowing what I know now.


Woah......This all sounds so similar. I gave up watching a lot of sports because my H didn't like it. I have recently (within the last few years or so) started watching all of them again...because I like it and also to get my own sons interested in them and not just blow them off like their dad does.


----------



## MRR

citygirl4344 said:


> I have dated a feminine man.
> In university I dated a guy who went for manicures weekly...went tanning. Obsessed about his hair.
> Talking to him was like talking to a girlfriend.
> When he first asked me out I was like "are you for real?"
> But the sex was amazing.
> 
> My point is you can't judge by these incidents how he will be as a partner both sexually and in life.
> She declined him at face value before getting to know him. That's a turn off for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Ok, so, I am curious regarding why you proceeded to date him if your initial reaction was 'are you for real?'

I am under the impression that if a woman thought that about me initially, she would not later agree to date me. How did he change your perception of him?


----------



## MRR

SecondTime'Round said:


> I dated a man for a few months about 5 years ago who was quite feminine. He was also in his late 40s and never married. He was very artistic, favorite color purple, etc. He frequently made jokes about being gay (himself). I admit I did have a hard time with it. I couldn't really imagine introducing him to my kids and what their dad would say about him/put in their heads.
> 
> But, he was the kindest man I've ever met, let alone dated. As far as I know he's been dating the same girl for a couple of years now and I think they bought a house together.



Ok...similar to my previous question-- were you physically attracted to him or was it just the 'kindness' or 'personality' that you dated him for? Did you break it off b/c he wasn't 'manly' enough? 

I am just curious. Since my divorce I have been really fascinated regarding relationship/male-female dynamics. Especially since I have issues with confidence (only with women I actually like though, not in the rest of my life).


----------



## MrsAldi

My husband is the definite Alpha Male. Strong, silent type doesn't discuss his emotions etc. Is obsessed with sports. Goes on trips abroad with the lads. But the negative side is that on date nights he hardly talks unless it's about sports or the latest crappy film with explosives. If the lady on radio wants a guy like this, she has a lot of work ahead of her. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


----------



## SecondTime'Round

MRR said:


> Ok...similar to my previous question-- were you physically attracted to him or was it just the 'kindness' or 'personality' that you dated him for? Did you break it off b/c he wasn't 'manly' enough?
> 
> I am just curious. Since my divorce I have been really fascinated regarding relationship/male-female dynamics. Especially since I have issues with confidence (only with women I actually like though, not in the rest of my life).


I was physically attracted to him, but if if I'd met him out at a bar instead of online/chatted first, I would not have been. But, i got to know him a bit first. And he was physically attractive, too. I broke it off mostly because I just could not imagine our lives meshing. He, never married without kids, and me divorced, and active, with two kids. He had (has) a degenerative disease, which in and of itself is not a reason, but it was a factor in wondering if our lives would mesh. There were just a lot of reasons our lives would not go together. I still think he's amazing, though.


----------



## nirvana

citygirl4344 said:


> Interesting question.
> Plays into all the generalizations we have in our head about someone who is strong being a protector when that always isn't the case.
> I know a guy who is really macho... Lifts weights, tattoos etc. your typical protector type guy but he is gay. Sorts blows all the stereotypes out. This guy could easily attack me doesn't matter if he's gay or straight.


Thanks for replying.
I have noticed a lot of gay guys into weight lifting and body building, and I think that's because want to look good and they are also more into clothes and their own looks than regular men.

I wasn't talking about someone who could attack.

What I meant was that when a straight woman meets a straight man, there is a high likelihood that she is on her guard. That is because the man may be interested in her. But gay men are not interested in women so does the woman lower her defenses with gay men?


----------



## Mr. Nail

I wish I had never opened this thread. I'm enough of a mess without getting everyone's opinion on what is feminine. So here is my ranking today.
My height Gain Diet isn't working so I'm still short -1
I went to Scouts last night +1
I swam a mile before breakfast +1
I ate steak and eggs for breakfast +1
But, I cooked it myself -1
And I washed Laundry -2 (2 batches)
And I'm wearing Cargo pants ????


----------



## EllisRedding

Mr. Nail said:


> I wish I had never opened this thread. I'm enough of a mess without getting everyone's opinion on what is feminine. So here is my ranking today.
> My height Gain Diet isn't working so I'm still short -1
> I went to Scouts last night +1
> I swam a mile before breakfast +1
> I ate steak and eggs for breakfast +1
> But, I cooked it myself -1
> And I washed Laundry -2 (2 batches)
> And I'm wearing Cargo pants ????


Hmmm... you went to Scouts last night. Do you have a kid involved in scouts (+1 if yes, probably -28 if no lol)


----------



## MJJEAN

nirvana said:


> Thanks for replying.
> I have noticed a lot of gay guys into weight lifting and body building, and I think that's because want to look good and they are also more into clothes and their own looks than regular men.
> 
> I wasn't talking about someone who could attack.
> 
> What I meant was that when a straight woman meets a straight man, there is a high likelihood that she is on her guard. That is because the man may be interested in her. But gay men are not interested in women so does the woman lower her defenses with gay men?


I don't think this question applies to me because, if I am in the company of an attractive male, I want him to make a pass at/hit on me. If he doesn't, my guard goes up because that means he isn't into me and I should guard my behavior. I should not flirt or behave as if I am attracted to him because he has already indicated, by inaction, it is not returned. That's about when I make my excuses and move on to greener pastures.


----------



## Mr. Nail

EllisRedding said:


> Hmmm... you went to Scouts last night. Do you have a kid involved in scouts (+1 if yes, probably -28 if no lol)


There you go confusing sexual orientation with gender expression again. I have 2 kids involved in Scouts. They are both old enough to be leaders. The real question (discounting pedophilia) is, is scout leading a nurturing (feminine) role, or a role model (masculine) role? Or is even that question too generalized?

But really the post was intended to be light hearted as was your reply.


----------



## EllisRedding

Mr. Nail said:


> There you go confusing sexual orientation with gender expression again. I have 2 kids involved in Scouts. They are both old enough to be leaders. The real question (discounting pedophilia) is, is scout leading a nurturing (feminine) role, or a role model (masculine) role? Or is even that question too generalized?
> 
> But really the post was intended to be light hearted as was your reply.


C'mon, you can't have a post about cargo pant and expect everyone to take it light heartedly ... :wink2:


----------



## Marduk

One of my best buddies in uni was a gay guy that wasn't at the place where he could admit he was gay.

But he was good looking, very effeminate, and very obviously gay. I didn't care, and nobody else did, either.

But man did this dude score with hot chicks. Like, supermodel and you wonder where these girls came from hot. A new one every week or two. He'd meet them, sleep with them, break their hearts and dump them. And they would call me up all asking for help and trying to get him back. 

It was really annoying.

We lost touch, and reconnected on Facebook, and he's married to his partner who's a man. And cool.

So, to answer the thread, chicks sure do seem to go for effeminate guys sometimes.


----------



## BetrayedDad

marduk said:


> One of my best buddies in uni was a gay guy that wasn't at the place where he could admit he was gay.
> 
> But he was good looking, very effeminate, and very obviously gay. I didn't care, and nobody else did, either.
> 
> But man did this dude score with hot chicks. Like, supermodel and you wonder where these girls came from hot. A new one every week or two. He'd meet them, sleep with them, break their hearts and dump them. And they would call me up all asking for help and trying to get him back.
> 
> It was really annoying.
> 
> We lost touch, and reconnected on Facebook, and he's married to his partner who's a man. And cool.
> 
> So, to answer the thread, chicks sure do seem to go for effeminate guys sometimes.


Had a college buddy who was the same way. Pretty boy, always well dressed, the girls would throw themselves at him.

He acted feminine and we always asked him if he was gay and he would deny it. I don't think women "go" for effeminate guys. 

I just think even with many women, like men, looks > personality.


----------



## citygirl4344

MRR said:


> Ok, so, I am curious regarding why you proceeded to date him if your initial reaction was 'are you for real?'
> 
> 
> 
> I am under the impression that if a woman thought that about me initially, she would not later agree to date me. How did he change your perception of him?




He plied me with alcohol
Lol. Kidding.
Yes I had the reaction of are you for real. He had a way about him that when he talked you got lost. We went out one night as friends and it evolved from there. He showed me that was one side of him...the side everyone sees first, the side that causes people to make judgements, but it was only one side.
We connected and I completed accepted him for what and who he was.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

thefam said:


> Well Im looking at it from the standpoint of could I picture Prince doing all these things at dinner? Absolutely.
> 
> Could I date Prince from what Ive seen of him?
> 
> Absolutely. In a heartbeat. No question about it.
> 
> If I were single of course.


I haven't seen "Purple Rain" in 20 yrs.. but boy do I remember thinking he was







in that movie.. I'd really like to see it again.. 



EllisRedding said:


> Excellent points. *Really the question it brings up, are you willing to look past possible turn offs at the onset to get to know someone before deciding? That is really a tough call b/c we all have likes/dislikes, and some are just stronger than others where it is impossible to look past. *Maybe not on the same level, but for me I can't stand smoking. If I went on a first date and found out she smoked, no matter how awesome she may be in every other avenue, that is a deal breaker, there will be no second date.


None of the initial things this guy did in the opening post -that the lady dropped him for... would be ENOUGH of a turn off to me personally.. I'd give more time to get to know him better..

Now..if he sat there talking about his partying days or football, if he had ear gauges like this, piercings on his face 
(too bad this guy is cute!)... I'd never contact him again... I'd know our lifestyles wouldn't mesh, what we find attractive or interesting at all.. I'd be wanting to change him & he'd probably feel the same about me, no sense wasting each others time.... 

I also wouldn't date a smoker... that would turn me off immediately....

We all have deal breakers..some of mine would be considered "small" to other women.. and some of what others would find a real turn off may be small to someone like me... but that's what makes the world go round.. doesn't it.. 

It's like this saying.....


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
I had a good friend at work. Middle height, slightly pudgy. Really nice guy. At a quick glance you'd never notice him. 

He was the most amazing female-magnet that I've ever seen. It seemed that he was always having enthusiastic conversations with beautiful women. My wife even found him very attractive and couldn't say why.


----------



## Personal

I deleted this but here it is again.

In large part I think Prince would have fared just as well.

He was a rock star because it was already in him.

"Would You Ladies Date A "Feminine" Man?"

I can't speak for the women here yet lots of women have dated (pursued) me, of which a few of them wanted to marry me and two did.

At 5'3" I'm shorter than most men and many women and I've been told by a few of my female sexual partners "you're so gay", I figure they mean I'm feminine in some way.

I hate camping, hate fishing and except for the Tour de France I don't watch any sport at all ever because I find it all rather boring. Except for volleyball and infantry I've always hated playing any team sports. Instead I love live music, live theatre, visiting art galleries and museums as well. On the other hand even when my work is on the wall, I loathe gallery openings, because some of the people at such events really are extraordinarily vapid.

When dating I've always used hair products and cared about my appearance, while I also tend to wear elegant brand name clothes and fancy Italian shoes as well. In order of alcoholic drink preferences I always drink c0cktails, bottled vodka mixer drinks (girlie drinks), cream based liqueurs, whiskey and vodka and won't touch beer at all.

At the same time I'm also a foodie so although I am not effusive about it I actually care about what I eat while I am out and won't eat anything that I consider to be subpar. That said when I was an infantryman food was just fuel, so I would eat pretty much anything that was thrown into my cups canteen steel. I also have little interest in cars as such and even less interest in what makes them work, that said I'd love to own an immaculate metallic green Citroën DS21.

Amongst others some of my favourite music that I sing along to is from Bronski Beat, Cat Power, Harry Connick Jr, Franz Ferdinand, Madonna, Perfume Genius, Pet Shop Boys, Placebo, Prince, Sade, Barbra Streisand, Tears For Fears, Suzanne Vega and Wham. I also hate music by AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Cold Chisel, Guns n' Roses, Led Zeppelin and Metallica.

I buy my wife Review and Lindy Bop dresses, while she also asks me to come clothes shopping with her because she thinks I have exquisite taste, on the other hand I don't let her pick or buy clothes for me. I also paint watercolours, write poetry and carry a small sketch book and draw while i'm in cafe's.

I've even turned down a variety of explicit offers of sex from different women through many years when I was single (wasn't attracted to them) and when I was partnered (being a serial monogamist).

I also tend to gravitate towards people who are alternative, arty and rather hedonistic as well. I also don't play to a type or do things to please others since I am always just who I am.

As to man card stuff, I joined the Regular Army (full-time) when I was 17, ended up in infantry and before I became an NCO I was either the Scout or humped the Section GPMG. When I left infantry I was a Reserve Platoon Sergeant, I've done caving, rappelled down cliffs and thrown myself out of aeroplanes as well.

I've successfully protected my wife from threat by shoving that guy out of the way or beating the crap out of that intruder. Yet I've also failed to protect her as well. I can't stop 1.5 tons of steel travelling at speed when I'm holding her hand crossing the road, that said although I was covered in her blood I did help her immediately after she was hit.

At the end of the day though this non "manly" Perfume Genius fan (thanks @Curse of Millhaven), has never lacked for female suitors & offers and has never lacked frequent & plentiful sex in all of my sexual relationships.

I fiind it rather ironic that there are plenty of men who participate here on the TAM forums who are manly or worry about being manly. Yet many of them claim that women aren't very sexual or only want "bad boys", or that sex dries up or sex acts end when women get married and or have babies and likewise complain about being in sexless marriages as well.

Whereas I'm not conventionally manly and have never worried about being manly, yet I've often been asked out on dates by plenty of women and offered sex by them as well. Plus I've had some dump their boyfriends to be with me, had some offer me sex despite being married to someone else. I've had some of them deeply hurt when I ended relationships with them, had them pay for dates as well. And have also had them do anything I like sexually (without persuasion no matter how extreme) with tremendous frequency and enthusiasm without it ever drying up in any relationship.

Sexual success has far more to do with having confidence, oozing sex, being good at it, mutual attraction, choosing well and having that something that draws people in rather than being masculine or feminine of whichever gender you are.


----------



## Fitnessfan

Personal, I don't believe that you come across as feminine. You sound more metrosexual which can be very hot to some women and it appears you attract those woman. A man who is oozing sex and has confidence would be hard to perceive as feminine. I find the same for anyone in the Army or infantry....just seems the opposite of feminine IMHO.


----------



## Buddy400

OliviaG said:


> I'm trying to think about your question, but there's something about this story that I find a little distracting...can't quite put my finger on it...


I used to like Olivia, but this ends it.


----------



## Buddy400

EllisRedding said:


> First off, this has nothing to do with me because a) I am not a feminine man and b) whether you know it or not, ya all would date me so it wouldn't even be a question >
> 
> Driving to work with the usual Blown Off radio segment, this guy (for ease let's call him Buddy ) was at a golf outing for his job, met this lady (for ease let's call her Olivia  ) who was working the outing. Long story short, they spend the entire time flirting, a week or so after texting, finally go out to dinner (a higher end steakhouse), Buddy thinks the date went awesome but Olivia never responds back to his texts, radio show gets involved ...
> 
> Radio gets Olivia on the phone. Olivia says the date went well, he came across as somewhat of a manly man at the golf outing which was part of the appeal. Olivia's issues at the dinner were:
> 
> a) Buddy ordered a lemon drop as his drink
> b) Buddy had a salad as his main meal ... at a steakhouse
> c) When Olivia's dessert came out, Buddy was all ecstatic over the presentation/appearance (Olivia termed it he sounded like an excited little girl and was embarrassed at his reaction which could be heard by others)
> d) Buddy kept talking about how great the Disney animation movie "Inside Out" was.
> 
> Olivia was turned off because what she thought was a somewhat masculine guy prior to dinner turned to be rather feminine (in her opinion).
> 
> So ladies of TAM, if you were on a date like this, would this be an automatic turnoff?
> 
> I found this call interesting only because IMO there seems to be somewhat an identity crisis amongst younger males on what exactly it means to be a "man" (I guess the whole alpha vs beta stuff).
> 
> Disclaimer: Any names mentioned here are purely coincidental and do not represent actual members of TAM


I have a thing for drinks with paper umbrellas when I'm at a Chinese restaurant.

I always explain to the waiter that it's just a Chinese restaurant thing I do for fun.

But I think they see through me.:smile2:


----------



## EleGirl

always_alone said:


> I can't even imagine deciding someone is "too feminine" based on what they eat and drink.
> 
> So does this mean guys can't so much as have a pina colada without someone questioning their manhood? And must they stick to only cooked vegetables? Or is salad acceptable in some venues, just not a steakhouse? Or it must be less than a certain proportion of a meal?
> 
> I don't get it.


This about sums up the way I look at it.

I don't get calling the guy "too feminine" at all. 

There has to be more to his date calling him feminine since she said he seemed very masculine.

I cannot judge the guy from what was posted. My bet is that she just did not like him and looked for reasons to reject him. That's ok. But then to make a public broadcast about her judgement? Really?


----------



## Starstarfish

Some of these would be a potential turn off but I wouldn't label them "feminine." I don't consider myself masculine for liking steak, so why should I consider eating a salad feminine? I mean, if he wanted all about the desert like it was episode of Chopped, that be kind of embarrassing, but it's all really in the context of what was said and really ... how good did that desert look? Without a pic, it's hard to judge, maybe it really was a gorgeous piece of pie.

Dean Winchester is super manly, he too might take the time to really appreciate the perfectly cut piece of pie with the perfect amount of whipped cream in the middle. 

Also, him nerding out on Inside Out, I'd be more curious why he found it personally so powerful to connect to. I might have more concern that he found it that interesting because of family issues or past or current depression problems. Which ... might be kind of heavy to think about on a first date.


----------



## EllisRedding

EleGirl said:


> This about sums up the way I look at it.
> 
> I don't get calling the guy "too feminine" at all.
> 
> There has to be more to his date calling him feminine since she said he seemed very masculine.
> 
> I cannot judge the guy from what was posted. My bet is that she just did not like him and looked for reasons to reject him. That's ok. *But then to make a public broadcast about her judgement? Really?*


Actually, per the bolded, it was Buddy who had the radio station call her and put her on public broadcast because she would not respond to his text messages.


----------



## EllisRedding

Starstarfish said:


> Dean Winchester is super manly, he too might take the time to really appreciate the perfectly cut piece of pie with the perfect amount of whipped cream in the middle.


Finally, someone making a Supernatural reference!!! He does love his pies :grin2:


----------



## happy as a clam

Would I date a "feminine man"?

NO!!

My dad was a man's man... He had 3 sons and 3 daughters...

He gave us girls 3 "rules"...
1. Throw a ball like a man (I can put a mean spiral on a football)
2. Shake hands like a man (no limp-fish handshake)
3. Drive like a man (I pretty much drive like an aggressive bat out of hell!)

So my answer is NO... I would not be interested in dating a feminine man...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nirvana

BetrayedDad said:


> Had a college buddy who was the same way. Pretty boy, always well dressed, the girls would throw themselves at him.
> 
> He acted feminine and we always asked him if he was gay and he would deny it. I don't think women "go" for effeminate guys.
> 
> I just think even with many women, like men, looks > personality.


Really?
If I meet a hot chick who was a *****, I would not want to be with her.


----------



## Bremik

Could I ask what makes a guy feminine? I know guys who live and die by what sport season time it is but I wouldn't think of asking them to help work on a car or do building maintenance. At the same time some of the most manly people I know don't drive a jacked up 4 wheel drive or soak up beer at a bar yet they would make MacGyver look like a sissy AND could care less about sports.


----------



## EleGirl

EllisRedding said:


> Actually, per the bolded, it was Buddy who had the radio station call her and put her on public broadcast because she would not respond to his text messages.


Do you know either of them?

What was his response to what she said?


----------



## Maricha75

EllisRedding said:


> Finally, someone making a Supernatural reference!!! He does love his pies :grin2:


Omg... anytime anyone in my house says "pie", it ALWAYS turns into a fit of laughter, while repeating "pie", over and over.


----------



## turnera

Fitnessfan said:


> Personal, I don't believe that you come across as feminine. You sound more metrosexual which can be very hot to some women and it appears you attract those woman. A man who is oozing sex and has confidence would be hard to perceive as feminine. I find the same for anyone in the Army or infantry....just seems the opposite of feminine IMHO.


Yeah, you sound just like my H, who is metrosexual. I had to throw out his nylon shirts and corduroy pants. He's always taken better care of herself than I have. When we worked together, before we dated, he'd have women call and they would sit on hold for up to an hour just to get to talk to him! When he was in high school, all the girls' mothers wanted him to take their daughters out.


----------



## turnera

EllisRedding said:


> Finally, someone making a Supernatural reference!!! He does love his pies :grin2:


Oh now you got me sad...last season...


----------



## EleGirl

EllisRedding said:


> c) When Olivia's dessert came out, Buddy was all ecstatic over the presentation/appearance (Olivia termed it he sounded like an excited little girl and was embarrassed at his reaction which could be heard by others)


I gotta say... 

This one reminds me of one of my nephews and his friends (all male). 

They are constantly sending out posts on facebook of foods and deserts that are beautifully presented and look wonderful. They gush about them.

None of them are gay.. all rather manly types.

Why do they do that... they are chefs. They love cooking and presenting what they cook. 

This woman might have passed up a guy who loves to cook wonderful things and would love to thrill her with it.

Sometimes ya just got to look deeper with people.


----------



## turnera

bremik said:


> Could I ask what makes a guy feminine? I know guys who live and die by what sport season time it is but I wouldn't think of asking them to help work on a car or do building maintenance. At the same time some of the most manly people I know don't drive a jacked up 4 wheel drive or soak up beer at a bar yet they would make MacGyver look like a sissy AND could care less about sports.


My H has an electronic business he started last year. Sometimes he has to do the manual labor himself - wiring houses being built, climbing up and down 3 or 4 stories 50 times in a day in hot sweaty conditions. Lately his regular crew bailed on him and he needed help so I've been helping him, being underemployed, and we hired our DD25's boyfriend to help us out. By profession, he is an artist. Watching him trying to do this manual labor...well, let's just say it's a stretch for him. Having to get his shoes muddy. Sweating. Having to figure out how to run cables. Learning how to use a power screwdriver. 

I mean, he's earnest, he's trying, but boy is he a fish out of water. You would never confuse him for some football player or hunter or something. 

But, he's perfect for our daughter. So I love him.


----------



## RainbowBrite

Buddy400 said:


> I used to like Olivia, but this ends it.


What? Oh, *that* Olivia...yeah, I don't like the sounds of her either.


----------



## WorkingWife

EllisRedding said:


> First off, this has nothing to do with me because a) I am not a feminine man and b) whether you know it or not, ya all would date me so it wouldn't even be a question >
> 
> Driving to work with the usual Blown Off radio segment, this guy (for ease let's call him Buddy ) was at a golf outing for his job, met this lady (for ease let's call her Olivia  ) who was working the outing. Long story short, they spend the entire time flirting, a week or so after texting, finally go out to dinner (a higher end steakhouse), Buddy thinks the date went awesome but Olivia never responds back to his texts, radio show gets involved ...
> 
> Radio gets Olivia on the phone. Olivia says the date went well, he came across as somewhat of a manly man at the golf outing which was part of the appeal. Olivia's issues at the dinner were:
> 
> a) Buddy ordered a lemon drop as his drink
> b) Buddy had a salad as his main meal ... at a steakhouse
> c) When Olivia's dessert came out, Buddy was all ecstatic over the presentation/appearance (Olivia termed it he sounded like an excited little girl and was embarrassed at his reaction which could be heard by others)
> d) Buddy kept talking about how great the Disney animation movie "Inside Out" was.
> 
> Olivia was turned off because what she thought was a somewhat masculine guy prior to dinner turned to be rather feminine (in her opinion).
> 
> So ladies of TAM, if you were on a date like this, would this be an automatic turnoff?
> 
> I found this call interesting only because IMO there seems to be somewhat an identity crisis amongst younger males on what exactly it means to be a "man" (I guess the whole alpha vs beta stuff).
> 
> Disclaimer: Any names mentioned here are purely coincidental and do not represent actual members of TAM


I can't say never because during a very tumultous/lonely time in my life I did briefly date a very heterosexual but also pretty feminine man.

He was a nice enough guy but my skin still crawls at the memory that I let him put his soft, disinfected-I'm-sure, manicured hands on my body.

A lemon drop would make me pause, but in isolation I would overlook it. I'm sure SOME men have a sweet tooth. Let's call it a martini with some lemon sugar in it and give Buddy the benefit of the doubt ...

That PLUS the salad? mmmmmm, Buddy is not really turning me on, but it's not over - lucky for Buddy one of the manliest men I know - big hunter, race car driver, etc. loves salads. (Though why take her to go to a steak house...)

But going gaga over desert presentation?

Um, yeah... Buddy is sounding more like girlfriend than dating material.

Disney animation? Sorry Buddy, there's just no chemistry here...


----------



## WorkingWife

ne9907 said:


> I would not date a feminine man. I have broken up with a man before because his laughter was too "girlish"


Curious - What did you tell him was your reason for ending things?


----------



## WorkingWife

norajane said:


> Lol, accountants are very detail oriented, which can make for an excellent lover! Depends on what a girl's priorities are, I guess. >


I don't know... when I think "accountant" I think uptight, anxious, picky, judgmental, critical, rigid... I guess I haven't met the right accountants! (Most that I know are women anyhow.)


----------



## tech-novelist

turnera said:


> I've been married to a metrosexual man for 36 years. Didn't realize it at first. But it's definitely been a strange ride. No sports in the house. I gave up watching NFL because he griped so much.


I didn't realize that I had to like sports to be a real man! How will I ever make this up to my wife? >


----------



## WorkingWife

MRR said:


> I think our imagination/interpretation of the guy is the main determining factor here. Obviously we are getting facts in black and white and making our own judgements on what that might mean the guy is like.
> 
> To me, the lemon drop ( I know it as a shot of vodka with lemon and sugar on the side), move and salad thing do not matter as much as the squealing over desert. In my imagination, I basically see an effeminate man, typically considered gay by any observers, though I do know many such men who are or have been married. This is why I relayed the previous story about my FWB's ex. Some women apparently are not turned off by that, and that surprised me. Then again they are divorced now. so...?


You make a good point. Squealing over desert was where he lost me (that and I hate animated movies and would not want to be subjected to them. I did not even like Toy Story...) 

But maybe the guy is really just open and fun loving and comfortable with himself. Maybe he would squeal over a Harley or gun collection the same way!


----------



## EllisRedding

EleGirl said:


> Do you know either of them?
> 
> What was his response to what she said?


He first denied that he was feminine. When asked about his response to the dessert (which was her main red flag) he said he couldn't remember exactly how he responded except that the dessert presentation was magnificent lol.


----------



## EllisRedding

turnera said:


> Oh now you got me sad...last season...


Where did you hear that, I read it got renewed for Season 12 and possible season 13?


----------



## EllisRedding

WorkingWife said:


> I don't know... when I think "accountant" I think uptight, anxious, picky, judgmental, critical, rigid... I guess I haven't met the right accountants! (Most that I know are women anyhow.)


Yikes, sounds like you haven't found the right accountant :wink2:


----------



## EllisRedding

EleGirl said:


> I gotta say...
> 
> This one reminds me of one of my nephews and his friends (all male).
> 
> They are constantly sending out posts on facebook of foods and deserts that are beautifully presented and look wonderful. They gush about them.
> 
> None of them are gay.. all rather manly types.
> 
> Why do they do that... they are chefs. They love cooking and presenting what they cook.
> 
> *This woman might have passed up a guy who loves to cook wonderful things and would love to thrill her with it.
> 
> Sometimes ya just got to look deeper with people.*


Maybe she passed up a guy who loved to cook, but if she is not physically attracted to him because he reacts like a little girl when he gets excited (her words not mine) then it isn't meant to be since physical attraction still has importance for many (along with the non physical aspects). To me it is no different than my smoking example, if I went on a date and found out she smoked, there will not be a second date. Maybe she could be the perfect fit for me in every other aspect (looks, personality, etc...). The fact that she smokes is a huge physical turnoff, not something I can look past and look "deeper". We all have our quirks when it comes to likes/dislikes, some weigh more than others.


----------



## Maricha75

EllisRedding said:


> Maybe she passed up a guy who loved to cook, but if she is not physically attracted to him because he reacts like a little girl when he gets excited (her words not mine) then it isn't meant to be since physical attraction still has importance for many (along with the non physical aspects). To me it is no different than my smoking example, if I went on a date and found out she smoked, there will not be a second date. Maybe she could be the perfect fit for me in every other aspect (looks, personality, etc...). The fact that she smokes is a huge physical turnoff, not something I can look past and look "deeper". We all have our quirks when it comes to likes/dislikes, some weigh more than others.


Exactly. I wouldn't continue dating a smoker, nor a drinker. It wouldn't matter if he was an awesome vook, gorgeous, or had an excellent sense if humor. Drug/tobacco/alcohol use are hard lines for me.


----------



## EleGirl

EllisRedding said:


> Maybe she passed up a guy who loved to cook, but if she is not physically attracted to him because he reacts like a little girl when he gets excited (her words not mine) then it isn't meant to be since physical attraction still has importance for many (along with the non physical aspects). To me it is no different than my smoking example, if I went on a date and found out she smoked, there will not be a second date. Maybe she could be the perfect fit for me in every other aspect (looks, personality, etc...). The fact that she smokes is a huge physical turnoff, not something I can look past and look "deeper". We all have our quirks when it comes to likes/dislikes, some weigh more than others.


I agree on the smoking. I did date a guy who smoked for a while. Never again

I agree that it was clearly not meant to be so she did both of them a favor by ending it after the first date.

As I said in an earlier post, there is more to her gut feelings than those 4 items. Often we are not sure why our first impressions of a person put us off, but I've found that they are important to pay attention to.

My response was to the 4 items that she listed. By themselves, or even if those were the only 4 things that he did that were 'feminine', it's not enough to tag a guy 'feminine'. 

Not the other dozen or more little things that she could not put her finger on.

I mean the lemon/vodka drink. Come on, we drink that at home except that we add fresh mint from my garden. You know who taught me how to make that drink? My sons and their military vet friends, one day after they'd all been hunting and brought home an Oryx. Just because bars put a fru-fru name on the drink does not make it feminine.

I also don't know any women who would rant on about how great the Disney animation movie "Inside Out" was. I’d call that goofy, not feminine.

Again, she just did not like him and was put on the spot to pin point why. She has every right to pick guys by her own criteria.


----------



## ne9907

WorkingWife said:


> Curious - What did you tell him was your reason for ending things?


We are too different. I don't want to continue our relationship.


----------



## turnera

EllisRedding said:


> Where did you hear that, I read it got renewed for Season 12 and possible season 13?


Really? Last I heard, last season was supposed to be the last one and this season was tacked on. That would be great.


----------



## EllisRedding

turnera said:


> Really? Last I heard, last season was supposed to be the last one and this season was tacked on. That would be great.


Yes, it has been confirmed for Season 12. My favorite show, can't tell you how many times I have rewatched the episodes (especially first 5-6 seasons lol)


----------



## Maricha75

EllisRedding said:


> Yes, it has been confirmed for Season 12. My favorite show, can't tell you how many times I have rewatched the episodes (especially first 5-6 seasons lol)


I am ashamed to admit it took me 11 seasons to START watching it. And we don't have CW, so we are catching up on the reruns. 

My favorite quote is "Son of a b!+ch" as Dean says it.


----------



## Starstarfish

The fact that I now turned this thread into a discussion on SPN, I consider my work here done.


----------



## EllisRedding

Starstarfish said:


> The fact that I now turned this thread into a discussion on SPN, I consider my work here done.


Lol, just finished watching last night's episode.

Reruns are on from 10am-1pm M-F, my W thinks I take off days from work to spend with her 

Jared/Jensen said they would keep going as long as the network keeps picking up the show. Not a bad gig, they are best buds in real life, get to play that role for TV and get paid for it.


----------



## EllisRedding

OK, non SPN related ...

Do ladies care about a guy's handshake at all? This is probably somewhat of a bigger deal among guys, but does it bug you at all if you shake a guy's hand and it is like shaking a dead fish???


----------



## Livvie

Yes, the dead fish handshake is a turn off for me. Much more so than a drink type, salad, or gushing over a dessert!


----------



## WorkingWife

MrsAldi said:


> My husband is the definite Alpha Male. Strong, silent type doesn't discuss his emotions etc. Is obsessed with sports. Goes on trips abroad with the lads. But the negative side is that on date nights he hardly talks unless it's about sports or the latest crappy film with explosives. If the lady on radio wants a guy like this, she has a lot of work ahead of her.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


Yep. The grass is always greener...


----------



## WorkingWife

citygirl4344 said:


> I have dated a feminine man.
> In university I dated a guy who went for manicures weekly...went tanning. Obsessed about his hair.
> Talking to him was like talking to a girlfriend.
> When he first asked me out I was like "are you for real?"
> But the sex was amazing.
> 
> My point is you can't judge by these incidents how he will be as a partner both sexually and in life.
> *She declined him at face value before getting to know him. *That's a turn off for me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


That is true and if he seemed manly when she first met him, maybe she should have taken more time. But when I think back to my dating days - I was way to open minded. Always trying to look past the surface and not be superficial, and it landed me in some very "ill fitting" relationships. If I'm ever in the dating scene again, I think I will listen to my gut reaction more quickly and save everyone some time and heartache even if it's not based on a lot of data. Sometimes you just know there is no chemistry or that certain personality traits while quite harmless in a vacuum will drive you mad over time.


----------



## *Deidre*

If I were single, I wouldn't date (and never dated) a feminine type of man. Just never felt a natural attraction to feminine men. But, the list in the OP of what he did on the date, I don't think those qualities would cause me to think he was a feminine man. Maybe he just likes lemon drops and salads?


----------



## WorkingWife

EllisRedding said:


> Yikes, sounds like you haven't found the right accountant :wink2:


Ha ha, well, I was just posting about stereotyping in another thread (and how I'm all for it.) That is just my IDEA of an "accountant" I actually have not had much exposure to the mythical beasts. I do have an accountant (which is new for me) and she's pretty much the opposite of every thing I described as my idea of the typical accountant.

There is just this type of personality/temperament that I've encountered and read about in "temperament" assessment tests like meyers briggs or the ennegram if you're familiar with them, that is very "rules" oriented and get's very bent out of shape when you do not follow the rules. I always feel like I am walking on eggshells around them and that they have an air of disapproval. They suck the life out of me. 

When I think of accountants working with numbers and having to be precise and how important it is to not make little mistakes, and how they must follow the rules -- I project that personality type onto them.


----------



## WorkingWife

EllisRedding said:


> OK, non SPN related ...
> 
> Do ladies care about a guy's handshake at all? This is probably somewhat of a bigger deal among guys, but does it bug you at all if you shake a guy's hand and it is like shaking a dead fish???


Yes, that's totally creepy/turn off. Though I've shaken quite a few women's hands who were like that but only one or two men - and I shake a lot of hands in my work.


----------



## WorkingWife

Mr. Nail said:


> I wish I had never opened this thread. I'm enough of a mess without getting everyone's opinion on what is feminine. So here is my ranking today.
> My height Gain Diet isn't working so I'm still short -1
> I went to Scouts last night +1
> I swam a mile before breakfast +1
> I ate steak and eggs for breakfast +1
> But, I cooked it myself -1
> And I washed Laundry -2 (2 batches)
> And I'm wearing Cargo pants ????


You have scored yourself inaccurately from my female-who-likes-masculine-men POV:

_*My height Gain Diet isn't working so I'm still short *_
Mmmmm, how short is short? and how skinny? It's more a small frame than height that seems less masculine to me. I give you a 0 here until I know more.

I went to Scouts last night +1

*I swam a mile before breakfast +1*
Swimming? Meh, it's physical so that's worth +1, but not the manliest exercise. If you were wearing a speedo or shave your legs for less resistance I'm actually going to have to deduct points. Probably quite a few. Unless you wear your speedo and smooth legs with a masculine air of "I do this because swimming is my thing and this works best and I'm so manly I don't care who knows it." 

*I ate steak and eggs for breakfast +1*
Very good. This is manly. Just vary your diet some - don't eat that every morning - if you start having diet related health issues.

*But, I cooked it myself -1 *
-1? WRONG - try +1. And if you did it in boxers or faded jeans with no shirt on, you get +2, and if a guy did that in my kitchen and made some for me too -- at LEAST +3. As long as you did not squeal over the presentation...

*And I washed Laundry -2 (2 batches)*
WRONG again - +1 at least. You're a man. You're taking care of things. That's masculine. Unless you used the fabric softener and the delicate cycle, fretted over things, ironed your jeans and cargo pants, and then arranged the clothes "just so" in the closet and drawers....

_*And I'm wearing Cargo pants ????*_
I'll give you +1 - I love cargo pants. Casual, comfortable, practical. = masculine to me. My husband wears cargo shorts. I mentioned this to a friend when we were talking clothes, and she laughed and said those are "so out of style" and that "board shorts" are what all the men wear now. I didn't inform her, but men worrying about "being in style" is negative points on my masculinity scale.


----------



## Wolfman1968

It sounds like the women here prefer the stereotypical "manly" men....you know......construction worker.....soldier.......policeman.....cowboy......leather-clad biker......American Indian chief.........


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_People


----------



## citygirl4344

WorkingWife said:


> Yes, that's totally creepy/turn off. Though I've shaken quite a few women's hands who were like that but only one or two men - and I shake a lot of hands in my work.




I think a handshake is a totally different ball game.
Doesn't matter if you are a man or woman...no excuse for having a lousy handshake.
It tells so much about the person.


----------



## Starstarfish

My husband isn't the Brawny man, but I love him, and evidently we have less at least sexual issues than some of the "God I'm so Alpha" Red Pill pushers so ...

No, my husband does not likely seem stereotypically manly. He's tall and rather slim and works a desk job. If it wasn't for his shorter haircut and goatee, he could probably pass for Legolas.  

He eats salads. He does some of his own laundry. He cooks sometimes (often to disastrous results.) 

So apparently he's feminine by some counts here, but ... evidently not to me. Or i don't care. So YMMV.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

We have 50 acres and my husband doesn't care about hunting.. he works with a bunch of hunters who want to use our property.. they think he is crazy for not trudging out in the woods after a deer, dragging it back here....he's just never had that interest...(he tells them he can just open the window & shoot, but still he doesn't care)...

But he can make his own tools and he's a heck of a mechanic.. I guess a guy has to have "something"...that sets him apart.. I greatly admire him for his handyman skills.. he's worked on co-workers cars even...they come to him for advice..he's made some $$ on the side too...fixing our own stuff has saved so much $$ over the years.. you can't help but love a guy like that... 

He can't cook worth anything, not that he's tried.. he's got me!.. I like to feel needed.. so that works for us..


----------



## arbitrator

Livvie said:


> Yes, the dead fish handshake is a turn off for me. Much more so than a drink type, salad, or gushing over a dessert!


*Other than in the business world, I absolutely do not shake hands, nor expect a handshake from a woman! 

From me, they either get a warm embrace or a hug, or they just get the precursory "Hi!" greeting!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EllisRedding

citygirl4344 said:


> I think a handshake is a totally different ball game.
> Doesn't matter if you are a man or woman...no excuse for having a lousy handshake.
> It tells so much about the person.


Interesting thoughts on handshakes from everyone. I know for guys (some) it is a big ego thing. For example, my BIL, big ex football type guy, whenever we shake hands it is like we are going to battle (his doing lol). Especially of late he will shake my hand for 10 seconds or longer like he is challenging me, which I think in part is b/c of late he isn't in as good of shape whereas I am in much better shape. The ironic thing, this may sound like a manly ego thing on his part, yet he also has a lot of metrosexual tendencies.

I know for me I hate the limp fish handshake. When you shake my hand at work, it better be firm and you better make eye contact, something I have noticed the younger generation seems to be lacking in.


----------



## RainbowBrite

EllisRedding said:


> OK, non SPN related ...
> 
> Do ladies care about a guy's handshake at all? This is probably somewhat of a bigger deal among guys, but does it bug you at all if you shake a guy's hand and it is like shaking a dead fish???


Yes, the handshake is HUGE.


----------



## EllisRedding

OliviaG said:


> Yes, the handshake is HUGE.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Cant stand limp handshakes... anyone surprised? 

And I especially cannot stand it when a man assumes I will be shaking hands like a girl and just grabs the fingers of my hand only AND limp fish style. OMG totally grosses me out. I have to shake off the heebie jeebies after being touched like that by a man.


----------



## EllisRedding

Blossom Leigh said:


> Cant stand limp handshakes... anyone surprised?
> 
> And I especially cannot stand it when a man assumes I will be shaking hands like a girl and just grabs the fingers of my hand only AND limp fish style. OMG totally grosses me out. I have to shake off the heebie jeebies after being touched like that by a man.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

EllisRedding said:


>


OMG... heebie jeebies... eww!!

lol


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
I spend enough time working with people from cultures where handshakes are not the norm that it doesn't bother me at all - I'm sure I completely screw up bowing.

The only thing I object to is the "challenge" handshake. Its supposed to be a customary greeting, not a test of physical strength. A super-strong challenging handshake makes me think the other person is so insecure that they need to try to prove their dominance even a things that don't matter. Sort of like someone who buys a huge truck, but never uses it to haul anything or drive off of city streets. 





EllisRedding said:


> OK, non SPN related ...
> 
> Do ladies care about a guy's handshake at all? This is probably somewhat of a bigger deal among guys, but does it bug you at all if you shake a guy's hand and it is like shaking a dead fish???


----------



## heartsbeating

I'm more curious why she couldn't just tell him that he didn't float her boat instead of leaving him hanging?


----------



## heartsbeating

WorkingWife said:


> A lemon drop would make me pause, but in isolation I would overlook it. I'm sure SOME men have a sweet tooth. Let's call it a martini with some lemon sugar in it and give Buddy the benefit of the doubt ...


My husband is very particular with his drinks. Certain ales and martinis. More often than not, he chooses non-alcoholic drinks.



WorkingWife said:


> That PLUS the salad? mmmmmm, Buddy is not really turning me on, but it's not over - lucky for Buddy one of the manliest men I know - big hunter, race car driver, etc. loves salads. (Though why take her to go to a steak house...)


I wouldn't think anything of the salad other than wondering why he went to a steak-house... did he choose the restaurant or did she suggest it? Maybe they do a great salad?



WorkingWife said:


> But going gaga over desert presentation?


This is where the imagination comes in... as to how elaborate this is. The real dating material though, and what my husband still does, which I adore - he always requests 2 spoons - when he orders dessert and I haven't. He says it's there as an option. He knows me too well. I kinda dig the option to share his dessert is offered. 



WorkingWife said:


> Disney animation? Sorry Buddy, there's just no chemistry here...


For me, it's all about context. 

Eh she wasn't into him. Someone else will be. Salad, drink, movies aside, golf does nothing for me. Each to their own!


----------



## heartsbeating

Because Prince has been mentioned in this thread, we were watching his music clips with friends recently, another couple. The other husband, not even a fan as such, commented 'He was pure seduction...' He knew how to use his body language, seemed to have it down to a fine art with his sexuality, at least as the persona we experienced on stage, communicating with a single glance of the eyes (and to a full stadium at that). It was simultaneously inclusive and mysterious. And with this, the audience became one of his instruments that he was able to play and make part of the show and the music. Perhaps part of the allure is that he took risks. Most of us don't truly.

I love the perspective he uses with this love song, all the while wearing a heart on his wrist, heels and typical 'Prince' fair: If I Was Ur Girlfriend


----------



## WorkingWife

Hey, and Buddy was interested and introspective enough to question himself and try to find out what turned her off. Now she may really regret having let that one get away. (Unless introspective is also feminine - in which case one can understand women deciding they're gay late in life after several failed relationships with masculine men...)

BTW - that would be funny if it was a steak salad.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Thanks for the review @WorkingWife ,
I often find a disconnect between what women say they like and What they actually respond well to. I'd like to point out that you state that a man who is worried about fashion rules is a turn off, But you also state very specific rules for swimwear. For the information of those interested in what a swimmer wears, I wear tight fitting full coverage from, knees to elbows, swim wear. I will not be wearing loose baggy board shorts in the water until I start seeing the women swimming in Chadors. 

As to How Short is Short? well 80% of US women find my height to be unattractive. I'm a bit taller than Personal. 

I'm not interested in what women find attractive upon reflection (cooking, and laundry). I'm more interested in what they instinctively find a turn off, (Salads, and desert presentation).


----------



## Herschel

I am def on the short side as well, but it really hasn't impacted much, besides me burning some high heeled shoes. I am stocky, but I am definitely not a manly man. Not effeminate, but didn't really do any manual labor until I got my house. Got a mani and a pedi once a week, and gold tips oin my hair. Nothing too girly. I do love me some appletinies though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingWife

Mr. Nail said:


> Thanks for the review @WorkingWife ,
> I often find a disconnect between what women say they like and What they actually respond well to. I'd like to point out that you state that a man who is worried about fashion rules is a turn off, But you also state very specific rules for swimwear. For the information of those interested in what a swimmer wears, I wear tight fitting full coverage from, knees to elbows, swim wear. I will not be wearing loose baggy board shorts in the water until I start seeing the women swimming in Chadors.
> 
> As to How Short is Short? well 80% of US women find my height to be unattractive. I'm a bit taller than Personal.
> 
> I'm not interested in what women find attractive upon reflection (cooking, and laundry). I'm more interested in what they instinctively find a turn off, (Salads, and desert presentation).


Well, that's difficult then because so much of what turns one off is more the way it's done than what is actually done.

For example, I can't imagine ordering a salad in itself being "feminine" but if the guy's going on about counting calories and getting enough fiber worrying about eating animals, and seeming anxious about food in general - then it could take away from his masculinity. 

But if a guy orders a lemon drop and a salad simply because he wants a lemon drop and a salad - it's not "manly" but I don't think it's necessarily a turn off or "feminine" either. 

With the speedos - they turn me off simply because they turn me off (in fact, they seem feminine to me). Whether they were the height of fashion or considered as bad as sandals with crew socks - I would be turned off by a speedo on a man.

Now if I was watching a diving competition and that's what everyone wore, I wouldn't sit there thinking they were feminine. Or if I was in Europe and everyone wore them, I'm sure I'd muddle through.


----------



## WorkingWife

BTW - ah hahahah -- I just remember seeing this online before. THIS is an example of a "feminine" man, IMO. Though he seems to be a perfect fit with his girlfriend. Nice enough guy but definitely not romance material, IMO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErRHJlE4PGI

ha ha my favorite part is right after the 1 minute mark.


----------



## MrsAldi

@WorkingWife hilarious clip, thanks for posting this. I would definitely not date a guy like this. He would drive me insane. Thank God for my brooding, sports watching husband. I'll never complain on date again, he can watch all the sports he wants! 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


----------



## EllisRedding

Herschel said:


> I am def on the short side as well, but it really hasn't impacted much, besides me burning some high heeled shoes. I am stocky, but I am definitely not a manly man. Not effeminate, but didn't really do any manual labor until I got my house. Got a mani and a pedi once a week, and gold tips oin my hair. Nothing too girly. I do love me some appletinies though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do sound very Jersey :grin2:


----------



## EllisRedding

heartsbeating said:


> I'm more curious why she couldn't just tell him that he didn't float her boat instead of leaving him hanging?


Well, the radio station wouldn't have a show, duh :grin2:

I don't know how much of it has to do with things being so impersonal these days? The same way people break up over text / facebook, others just opt to ignore altogether and hope the person gets the hint.



heartsbeating said:


> Because Prince has been mentioned in this thread, we were watching his music clips with friends recently, another couple. The other husband, not even a fan as such, commented 'He was pure seduction...' He knew how to use his body language, seemed to have it down to a fine art with his sexuality, at least as the persona we experienced on stage, communicating with a single glance of the eyes (and to a full stadium at that). It was simultaneously inclusive and mysterious. And with this, the audience became one of his instruments that he was able to play and make part of the show and the music. Perhaps part of the allure is that he took risks. Most of us don't truly.
> 
> I love the perspective he uses with this love song, all the while wearing a heart on his wrist, heels and typical 'Prince' fair: If I Was Ur Girlfriend


Funny the different perspectives. I honestly don't see the appeal of prince, looks like a scrawny little dude who shopped in the womens section of Bloomingdale  Really could care less about his music and act, so in general, just a person I had zero interest in (except for the brilliant clip done about him on The Chappelle Show!).


----------



## joannacroc

There's a lid for every pot, I guess. I would find everything but the ordering the salad off-putting. But then I also love the theater and opera music, so most guys who like those things might be considered feminine by some.


----------



## Herschel

EllisRedding said:


> You do sound very Jersey :grin2:


It saddens me that I am close to living in Jersey for almost as long as I have lived in PA. And now I am stuck here...


----------



## snerg

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't even know what a Lemon drop is..


Properly made lemon drop

1 shot of vodka
1 lemon slice on top of shot glass
1 tablespoon of sugar on lemon
add Bacardi 151 to sugar
ignite
let burn through lemon
once fiery sugar hits vodka and goes out, flip away lemon slice 
Shoot down delicious concoction

Vodka, lemon, Bacardi 151, *FIRE* - Seems pretty manly to me


----------



## SimplyAmorous

snerg said:


> Properly made lemon drop
> 
> 1 shot of vodka
> 1 lemon slice on top of shot glass
> 1 tablespoon of sugar on lemon
> add Bacardi 151 to sugar
> ignite
> let burn through lemon
> once fiery sugar hits vodka and goes out, flip away lemon slice
> Shoot down delicious concoction
> 
> Vodka, lemon, Bacardi 151, *FIRE* - Seems pretty manly to me


I don't drink..at all.. don't like the taste... I'd rather have a Pepsi.. so it makes sense I wouldn't know. but thank you.


----------



## Trickster

I cry at most Disney Pixar movies, including Inside Out.m just watched it again the other day for the 5th time and I still tear up.My daughter and I read to each other every night before bed. We are reading Wolves of the Beyond, by Lasky. One of the wolves were killed and I teared up so much I wasn't able to read. My daughter had to read. Then, she was laughing so hard because I was crying that she couldn't read. Too funny.

With my "open marriage", I have been on many dates as well as going out with a group of friends. I usually order healthier foods, eat slower, and maybe comment on the presentation of the food. I do that with my daughter to encourage her to want to eat. Thats why parents create artwork with dinner. I know I did. Trying to be polite, I attempted to eat ribs without using my fingers. That was stupid and it won't happen again. I am also more polite on dates and I talk about subjects my dates would be interested in. If they're not interested in football, I wouldn't discuss that. I find common interests to talk about. Seems to work for me.

I enjoy drinking whiskey, usually I'll order a double shot of Woodford Reserve or a Shiner Bock. I don't think I would drink a strawberry daiquiri, unless we were splitting one. 

I wouldn't call me a feminine man, but I do think I am too sensitive and emphatic. I am not afraid to talk about my feelings. I don't know if it is good or bad.


----------



## Trickster

I think Ellis and I listen to the same radio show. There is more to this story though. It took a while for me to recall that one show. When the radio station contacted the guy, his reason for ordering the salad was because he was at a festival all day with friends and was stuffed from all the food and beer. He wanted something healthier. He didn't tell his date that little bit of info. Maybe he should of. I don't remember about the dessert. It could be a different radio show all together, but it sounds similar.

This radio show has a daily update as to why somebody, man or woman didn't want a second date. Some of the reasons are silly.


----------



## EllisRedding

Trickster said:


> I think Ellis and I listen to the same radio show. There is more to this story though. It took a while for me to recall that one show. When the radio station contacted the guy, his reason for ordering the salad was because he was at a festival all day with friends and was stuffed from all the food and beer. He wanted something healthier. He didn't tell his date that little bit of info. Maybe he should of. I don't remember about the dessert. It could be a different radio show all together, but it sounds similar.
> 
> This radio show has a daily update as to why somebody, man or woman didn't want a second date. Some of the reasons are silly.


Hmmm ... I think it was a different show, I don't remember him saying anything about beers or being stuffed. There have been a few other calls about the female not liking the guy order a salad at a steakhouse though.

This got me thinking, maybe this same "couple" calls up all the radio shows across the country with their "story", just changes a few facts lol.


----------



## Trickster

EllisRedding said:


> Hmmm ... I think it was a different show, I don't remember him saying anything about beers or being stuffed. There have been a few other calls about the female not liking the guy order a salad at a steakhouse though.
> 
> This got me thinking, maybe this same "couple" calls up all the radio shows across the country with their "story", just changes a few facts lol.


I wonder if some of it is staged, hoping that the show picks up the second date with the limo, drinks and dinner tab. Thata what the radio shiw does here. Either way, some of these dating blunders tells me that both men and women have many deal breakers. A lot of the time, it's people who try too hard to impress.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Trickster said:


> *I wouldn't call me a feminine man, but I do think I am too sensitive and emphatic. I am not afraid to talk about my feelings. I don't know if it is good or bad*.


I prefer sensitive empathetic men... even did a thread on it.. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...our-thoughts-sensitive-men-good-bad-ugly.html

There definitely is a line.. with my own husband. it's like this.. and I do appreciate his attitude.. he doesn't give a rat's a$$ what other people THINK .. but when it comes to his family.. he cares deeply.. ..I can hurt him.. he's sensitive to my happiness.. he never complains , he's not one to shed tears ...very rare... but he knows he can do it in front of me... it's happened at 2 funerals.. one for an old friend and his Fathers..very understandable.. 

I prefer men who can express their emotions.. if I didn't have this in a relationship.. I would be frustrated & grow bored with him... I need so much BETA or it falls apart for me..... the strong silent type who can't be vulnerable - me & him would never get along. 

I have friends who told me I have to watch this season of "Survivor" .. that I will just love this little guy who is so ODD.. they put him in with "the Beauties" -which he couldn't understand why... he's crying over chickens being killed.. he's a gardener ...even feels bad for the plants being uprooted.... here I guess he's Gay.. I haven't seen this actually spoken or confirmed on the show, probably is though. he gave Caleb a kiss (Now that was the HOT Farmer!).... this is the feminine one - TAI... 










Not attracted to him.. but still I love him & hope he wins ! The Hot guy Caleb was my favorite >> 
...but he got sent home due to dangerous heat exhaustion... Some of those guys come off as complete A-holes on there, that's how I see the bigger Gruff ones with the tattoos & such (of course Caleb had some too -he just wasn't a Jerk -makes all the difference)....


----------



## EllisRedding

Trickster said:


> I wonder if some of it is staged, hoping that the show picks up the second date with the limo, drinks and dinner tab. Thata what the radio shiw does here. Either way, some of these dating blunders tells me that both men and women have many deal breakers. A lot of the time, it's people who try too hard to impress.


The radio show here offers t o pay for the second date, but almost all (except for 1 or 2) never go on the second date. Unless the radio station is giving the callers "perks" off the air, who knows? At a minimum I believe the callers have to grant permission before the radio station can air them.


----------



## Curse of Millhaven

None of these things would bother me, if anything I would admire his comfort level and lack of give a damn. Lemon drop? No prob, bro, I was known to knock back a 40 in my youth, so with my discriminating taste in malt liquors, who am I to judge a man's love of fancy c0cktails? Salad at a steakhouse? Make that two please! Excited over dessert? Friend, I like your priorities! Inside Out? Ok, you lost me there, I don't know what that is but my favorite movie is The Elephant Man, so I'll try not to judge your love of children's movies if you don't question my love of Joseph Merrick.

I mean my biggest celebrity crush (and by "crush" I mean if I could I would hunt him down, drink his sweat and declare it the nectar of the gods while smothering him with my scary scary love! You know, a sweet harmless "crush"), ahem, what was I saying...? Oh yes! My biggest crush is on Sufjan Stevens: a man who wears brightly colored wings, plays the banjo in star-spangled onesies, loves unicorns, and is freakishly obsessed with Christmas. He's one sexxxy beast.










Manly man, mangina, whatever. I don't really care about all that. I tend to be attracted to sensitive, unconventional men who are true to themselves and don't give a sh!t about living up to social norms or standards. They are simply who they are and if they cry in Bambi, eat veggie burgers at a barbecue, drink daiquiris with pink paper umbrellas, and have an eyegasm at food porn then so be it. And that's all right by me. 

And if he so happens to have big strong manimal paws and/or play the banjo, then I'd dry his tears with my tongue while spoon-feeding him Princess Cake. And happily ever after we'd go.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Curse of Millhaven said:


> *Manly man, mangina, whatever.* I don't really care about all that. I tend to be attracted to sensitive, unconventional men who are true to themselves and don't give a sh!t about living up to social norms or standards. They are simply who they are and if they cry in Bambi, eat veggie burgers at a barbecue, drink daiquiris with pink paper umbrellas, and have an eyegasm at food porn then so be it. And that's all right by me.
> 
> And if he so happens to have big strong manimal paws and/or play the banjo, then I'd dry his tears with my tongue while spoon-feeding him Princess Cake. And happily ever after we'd go.


I don't like it when people resort to calling a man a "Mangina" -if he doesn't fit his or her definition of a Man..it just doesn't sit well with me.. speak to the differences -but not slapping a label like that...I find it in very bad taste. 

There are some things that turn me off though -speaking of initial appearance...I'd seek to change the guy.. which is better to not go there...even if you see the potential... if that's his personality and taste.. what can you do!...someone else will appreciate it. 

When I see men wearing flip flops, even some tennis shoes with his jeans.... I just think.. "Gawd, you'd be so much hotter with some kicking boots on "....examples :








...



I also think beards look awful....it's like "trim that beast !".. Though there are women who love that sort of thing!...Me, I'd end up making comments like this.. that I'm going to hang bells on that dang thing... 

.


----------



## always_alone

Curse of Millhaven said:


> None of these things would bother me, if anything I would admire his comfort level and lack of give a damn.


Good to see you, Curse!


----------



## Holland

SimplyAmorous said:


> .......
> When I see men wearing flip flops, even some tennis shoes with his jeans.... I just think.. "Gawd, you'd be so much hotter with some kicking boots on "....examples :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> I also think beards look awful....it's like "trim that beast !".. Though there are women who love that sort of thing!...Me, I'd end up making comments like this.. that I'm going to hang bells on that dang thing...
> 
> .


Suit and tie with runners, ugh that is such a tacky look. Now suit, tie and quality business shoes is hotter than hot for me.


----------



## always_alone

Suit and tie for me = boring and conservative.


----------



## Holland

always_alone said:


> Suit and tie for me = boring and conservative.


IME it is the complete opposite, had some wild, wild men that dressed impeccably. 

MR H wears a suit and tie for work, boring and conservative would never be used to describe him :grin2:


----------



## always_alone

I didn't mean the man necessarily. Just the outfit. To me it's much more of a turn off than a turn on.


----------



## Mr The Other

heartsbeating said:


> I'm more curious why she couldn't just tell him that he didn't float her boat instead of leaving him hanging?


That is the way it is done now. What is disturbing is men have started doing the same to women.


----------



## Mr The Other

SimplyAmorous said:


> I prefer sensitive empathetic men... even did a thread on it..
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...our-thoughts-sensitive-men-good-bad-ugly.html
> 
> There definitely is a line.. with my own husband. it's like this.. and I do appreciate his attitude.. he doesn't give a rat's a$$ what other people THINK .. but when it comes to his family.. he cares deeply.. ..I can hurt him.. he's sensitive to my happiness.. he never complains , he's not one to shed tears ...very rare... but he knows he can do it in front of me... it's happened at 2 funerals.. one for an old friend and his Fathers..very understandable..
> 
> I prefer men who can express their emotions.. if I didn't have this in a relationship.. I would be frustrated & grow bored with him... I need so much BETA or it falls apart for me..... the strong silent type who can't be vulnerable - me & him would never get along...


Sensitivity is a much abused word, as is empathetic. It should mean focused and aware of the other person, but ends up meaning self-focused and self-absorbed. People who think of themselves as more sensitive and empathetic might well think of themselves as having heightened more complex emotions, when thinking that about yourself is actually a sign of the office. Someone who gets upsets because you have had a bad day and tells you how that makes them feel is not sensitive of empathetic, the person who gets you a cup of tea/coffee while not discussing how they feel is.

Sensitive has come to mean deeply concerned with what other people think and with ones own emotional vulnerability. It is an abuse of the word.



Trickster said:


> I think Ellis and I listen to the same radio show. There is more to this story though. It took a while for me to recall that one show. When the radio station contacted the guy, his reason for ordering the salad was because he was at a festival all day with friends and was stuffed from all the food and beer. He wanted something healthier. He didn't tell his date that little bit of info. Maybe he should of. I don't remember about the dessert. It could be a different radio show all together, but it sounds similar.
> 
> This radio show has a daily update as to why somebody, man or woman didn't want a second date. Some of the reasons are silly.


Maybe he is making excuses. Maybe she just wants a man who shaves with a rock and eats live sharks still alive and in the ocean. Or maybe, the last man she went out with turned out to be clearly gay and she is projecting from that.


----------



## Holland

always_alone said:


> I didn't mean the man necessarily. Just the outfit. To me it's much more of a turn off than a turn on.


Yep we are all different thankfully. I have GF that love the tradie look, to me it is a turn off. Other GFs that like dreadlocks and shabby looking surfer dudes again to me that is revolting.

Well dressed is my thing.


----------



## Luvher4life

Hey! When I was a drinking man, I wouldn't be "afraid" to try anything, even if it was considered a "feminine" drink. I would've ordered a beer most likely, though, or a Crown and Coke.

I wouldn't be afraid to order a salad, either, but I wouldn't go to a nice steakhouse to order it. I actually love a good salad before my steak and loaded baked potato. If I happened to not be hungry while I was on a date, she'd get the pick of the restaurant and I would eat whatever sounded good at that moment, regardless of what anybody else thought.

Dessert? Really? I don't care how it's "presented" as long as it tastes good!

Animated movies? I have two daughters, have watched many of them, enjoyed them thoroughly, and would watch another anytime I thought it would be a good movie. Imagination folks! I wouldn't "gush" about them on a date, though. Oh, well...

"You is kind, you is smart, and you is important." I can be as sensitive as I want, and not worry about what others think. If they have a problem with it, or want to call me on it, I can handle it anyway you want.:grin2:

I am also one of those who can't stand a dead-fish handshake. A good firm handshake for anybody with whom I meet, man or woman, and although I have been accused of intentionally trying to hurt people when I shake their hand, it's simply not the case. I have learned to loosen it up a little over the years, it's still firm. I'll even hug when it's needed, or wanted, man or woman. No insecurities there.

I can cook, even though it is rare for me to do so. My repertoire is not that big, but what I do cook is the best I've eaten anywhere. Sausage gravy and biscuits, burgers or steaks on the grill, chicken fried steak, mashed potatoes, beans, etc. Just good ol' southern country cooking.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Mr The Other said:


> *Sensitivity is a much abused word, as is empathetic. It should mean focused and aware of the other person, but ends up meaning self-focused and self-absorbed. * People who think of themselves as more sensitive and empathetic might well think of themselves as having heightened more complex emotions, when thinking that about yourself is actually a sign of the office. Someone who gets upsets because you have had a bad day and tells you how that makes them feel is not sensitive of empathetic, the person who gets you a cup of tea/coffee while not discussing how they feel is.


 I agree.. the word is abused.. when I use it.. I generally mean I appreciate NICE A$$ people.. if a guy is a charming JERK / narcissistic self absorbed tendencies.. no matter how drop dead gorgeous some of those may be.. NOT WORTH IT.. give me the sensitive affectionate sweet guy over there please!.. 

I also dislike how "NICE" is now a bad word ... Nice doesn't always = being a doormat...One can have a good disposition & still be true to themselves... believing in being a "giving" partner, caring about the others needs, which is part of being a "decent" human being (aka "nice")...it's very important..


----------



## EllisRedding

LOL, on today's radio show, couple went for a jog together (they already had a date the day prior and things went ok). Quickly into the jog the female bolted, made up an excuse that she had work. Radio station got her on the phone, she said it was because during their run he didn't jog, but instead pranced lol. She couldn't take a guy running like an excited 12 yr old girl seriously (and a turn off).


----------



## Mr The Other

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree.. the word is abused.. when I use it.. I generally mean I appreciate NICE A$$ people.. if a guy is a charming JERK / narcissistic self absorbed tendencies.. no matter how drop dead gorgeous some of those may be.. NOT WORTH IT.. give me the sensitive affectionate sweet guy over there please!..
> 
> I also dislike how "NICE" is now a bad word ... Nice doesn't always = being a doormat...One can have a good disposition & still be true to themselves... believing in being a "giving" partner, caring about the others needs, which is part of being a "decent" human being (aka "nice")...it's very important..


I agree about “nice” and I think this forum is one of the worst places for it. ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ is really, ‘No More Self-Absorbed Mummy’s boy’, there is nothing nice or decent about such men. Which is typically why such men do not have male friends.


----------



## Holland

Luvher4life said:


> Hey! When I was a drinking man, I wouldn't be "afraid" to try anything, even if it was considered a "feminine" drink. *I would've ordered a beer most likely, though, or a Crown and Coke.*
> 
> .......................


OK Crown here is a brand of beer, please tell me you are not drinking beer mixed with coke.


----------



## Mr. Nail

EllisRedding said:


> he didn't jog, but instead pranced lol. She couldn't take a guy running like an excited 12 yr old girl seriously (and a turn off).


So the real point of this thread is it doesn't matter what you do right, She will find something to dump you over so save your money guys. Go your own way.


----------



## Holland

FrenchFry said:


> :grin2: Crowne Royal is a brand of whiskey here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank The Universe for that.

A man that would drink beer and coke would not be feminine, he would be certifiable.


----------



## always_alone

sapientia said:


> B suit is a uniform, that's all. Like this one:


Sure, but now that you mention it, I don't much like any kind of uniform ...


----------



## jld

Mr. Nail said:


> So the real point of this thread is it doesn't matter what you do right, She will find something to dump you over so save your money guys. Go your own way.


I think the point is Be yourself. Your authenticity will attract the right person for you.


----------



## nirvana

I don't think women generally like to date a feminine man because dating implies she is interviewing him for position of boyfriend of possibly husband. I don't think a woman wants a feminine man.

For friend, I think a feminine man is preferred by a woman. These are guys, but have some good qualities of a girlfriend. They also are not "threatening". By "threatening", I don't mean physical assault, but women don't need to be on their guard with feminine/gay men. They can be themselves and reveal their thoughts without wondering if the guy is making a pass at them. Or say whatever they want without worrying about giving the wrong signals. 

At my wife's work place, there is a American born muslim fellow who has joined who is very feminine and coworkers suspect he is gay. He has not admitted to anything. He revealed that he was married some years ago but she left him. This does not mean he is straight, he may be hiding it from himself. My wife has many stories about this or that with him. Seems like this guy is trying to make my wife into his buddy at work and telling her things that he does not tell anyone else at work. Not sure what to make of this because my wife tells me things from work but as always, it makes sense to keep eyes and ears open.
The gay guys have an advantage that they can do much more than a straight guy. This fellow hugged one of the Indian women there in front of everyone, and she told my wife about it and said she told him not to do it. And he was offended.


----------



## Luvher4life

Holland said:


> OK Crown here is a brand of beer, please tell me you are not drinking beer mixed with coke.


Good Lord! :surprise: Crown Royal is a brand of whiskey.:|


----------



## Holland

Good Lord!







Crown Royal is a brand of whiskey.









Settle, FF has already said that.


----------



## Luvher4life

Holland said:


> Good Lord!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crown Royal is a brand of whiskey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Settle, FF has already said that.


I've never heard of Crown beer, so..., I assumed everybody knew. Sorry..:wink2:

You know what they say about ASSuming anyway...:|


----------



## norajane

nirvana said:


> I don't think women generally like to date a feminine man because dating implies she is interviewing him for position of boyfriend of possibly husband. I don't think a woman wants a feminine man.
> 
> *For friend, I think a feminine man is preferred by a woman. These are guys, but have some good qualities of a girlfriend. They also are not "threatening". By "threatening", I don't mean physical assault, but women don't need to be on their guard with feminine/gay men. They can be themselves and reveal their thoughts without wondering if the guy is making a pass at them. Or say whatever they want without worrying about giving the wrong signals. *


You keep saying this in this thread, but that doesn't make it true. 

You have some very strange ideas about gay people and straight people and friendships.


----------



## EllisRedding

jld said:


> I think the point is Be yourself. Your authenticity will attract the right person for you.


Completely agreed. On the other side as well, if there is something that is just a turn off to you, don't force things because you don't want people to think you are "shallow". If there is something in someone that you know off the bat you can't look past, just move on instead of leading them on. Now of course, if you have a laundry list of "Must haves" then hopefully you luck out and find the one, otherwise you may very well end up spending your time alone.


----------



## nirvana

norajane said:


> You keep saying this in this thread, but that doesn't make it true.
> 
> You have some very strange ideas about gay people and straight people and friendships.


It is normal to think that ideas that we do not agree with or even far ahead of their times are "strange". Perfectly normal.
Back in 1200AD, it was strange if someone said the Earth revolved around the Sun for example.

It's not a problem, we all have different views on things.


----------



## norajane

nirvana said:


> It is normal to think that ideas that we do not agree with or even far ahead of their times are "strange". Perfectly normal.
> Back in 1200AD, it was strange if someone said the Earth revolved around the Sun for example.
> 
> It's not a problem, we all have different views on things.


Oh please. Strange was the most innocuous word I could come up with for what I really think of your opinions.

All gay men are not effeminate. You probably know lots of gay men and have no idea they are gay. Effeminate men, men who are in touch with their feminine side, and gay men are not all the same thing and lumping them into your hypothesis is inaccurate and misleading.

Women do not develop friendships solely because gay men are effeminate (if they are), nor solely because a straight man is effeminate and "non-threatening," nor because they don't have to have their guard up, nor because they they are or aren't worried about passes or signals. *

Women develop friendships with people whose company they enjoy and whom they appreciate as human beings - gay or straight*.

My BFF is gay and has been my BFF for almost 30 years, as has his partner. I am friends with them because they are amazingly good people and I enjoy their company - they are family at this point. We did not become friends for any of the reasons you listed. Most friendships are not based on fears and stereotypes, but on mutual enjoyment and respect.


----------



## Haiku

Excellent topic. I would have read this earlier but I was out branding cattle and wrestling a couple black bears that keep wandering too close to the house. Well the angry mob is here so I need to grab my hatchet and lead them into battle. Ta Ta.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Haiku said:


> Excellent topic. I would have read this earlier but I was out branding cattle and wrestling a couple black bears that keep wandering too close to the house. Well the angry mob is here so I need to grab my hatchet and lead them into battle. Ta Ta.


Makes me think of this Summer's Eve Commercial .. I thought it was great / loved it.. laughed.. but I guess not everyone was so amused, it took a lot of backlash.


----------



## nirvana

norajane said:


> Oh please. Strange was the most innocuous word I could come up with for what I really think of your opinions.
> 
> All gay men are not effeminate. You probably know lots of gay men and have no idea they are gay. Effeminate men, men who are in touch with their feminine side, and gay men are not all the same thing and lumping them into your hypothesis is inaccurate and misleading.
> 
> Women do not develop friendships solely because gay men are effeminate (if they are), nor solely because a straight man is effeminate and "non-threatening," nor because they don't have to have their guard up, nor because they they are or aren't worried about passes or signals. *
> 
> Women develop friendships with people whose company they enjoy and whom they appreciate as human beings - gay or straight*.
> 
> My BFF is gay and has been my BFF for almost 30 years, as has his partner. I am friends with them because they are amazingly good people and I enjoy their company - they are family at this point. We did not become friends for any of the reasons you listed. Most friendships are not based on fears and stereotypes, but on mutual enjoyment and respect.


It's okay if you think that my opinions are strange. Like I said earlier, everyone comes from different backgrounds and experiences and it is natural that opinions that one is not used to seems strange. I find some views put forth here to be strange too. That is all part of "diversity". 

Of course, not all gay men are effeminate. My wife workplace has a high up person who is gay but not effeminate. I used to work with one person in a previous job 10 years ago who was not effeminate. He was about 15 years older than me, good looking, very nice and easy to work with. Some in the team told me he was gay and I did not believe it. Then while helping him out on some work issue, I saw an email from "Pride" in his inbox, so that confirmed things.

I hope you understand the meaning of a "trend" or a probability. That means the likelihood of something happening. With that information one can make predictions. Not all predictions are 100% accurate. If it were you could make billions of dollars with that information, but if you are good with it, you can make a lot of money. Many do. We just need to open our eyes and look for trends rather than close our eyes and be politically correct about things.

In any case, that was a theory I put forth. There was no need for you to get angry about it. People have been putting forth theories for 1000s of years and there is always an angry group that objects because it goes against whatever they hold dear. Such is life.


----------



## Mr The Other

nirvana said:


> It is normal to think that ideas that we do not agree with or even far ahead of their times are "strange". Perfectly normal.
> Back in 1200AD, it was strange if someone said the Earth revolved around the Sun for example.
> 
> It's not a problem, we all have different views on things.


There are two reasons that people might disagree with you.

1) That we have different experiences and will never see a full perspective, giving people good reason to disagree with us.

2) We are amazing visionaries, seeing people that they cannot dream of in their limited thinking. It is normal to think that ideas that we do not agree with or even far ahead of their times are "strange". 

I will give you a guess what I think is more likely.


----------



## Mr The Other

nirvana said:


> It's okay if you think that my opinions are strange. Like I said earlier, everyone comes from different backgrounds and experiences and it is natural that opinions that one is not used to seems strange. I find some views put forth here to be strange too. That is all part of "diversity".
> 
> Of course, not all gay men are effeminate. My wife workplace has a high up person who is gay but not effeminate. I used to work with one person in a previous job 10 years ago who was not effeminate. He was about 15 years older than me, good looking, very nice and easy to work with. Some in the team told me he was gay and I did not believe it. Then while helping him out on some work issue, I saw an email from "Pride" in his inbox, so that confirmed things.
> 
> I hope you understand the meaning of a "trend" or a probability. That means the likelihood of something happening. With that information one can make predictions. Not all predictions are 100% accurate. If it were you could make billions of dollars with that information, but if you are good with it, you can make a lot of money. Many do. We just need to open our eyes and look for trends rather than close our eyes and be politically correct about things.
> 
> In any case, that was a theory I put forth. There was no need for you to get angry about it. People have been putting forth theories for 1000s of years and there is always an angry group that objects because it goes against whatever they hold dear. Such is life.


Your tone was ridiculous, which is why you quite understandably irked someone. A claim to high greater wisdom has to be well backed up, otherwise it is just refusing to discuss and a sign of delusion. The actual statement you made about the issue was reasonable, but pretty much another assertion of your viewpoint.

There are plenty who make broad generalizations on here, or comment on particular scenarios. Caveats to the statement might be useful in such cases.


----------



## nirvana

Mr The Other said:


> There are two reasons that people might disagree with you.
> 
> 1) That we have different experiences and will never see a full perspective, giving people good reason to disagree with us.
> 
> 2) We are amazing visionaries, seeing people that they cannot dream of in their limited thinking. It is normal to think that ideas that we do not agree with or even far ahead of their times are "strange".
> 
> I will give you a guess what I think is more likely.


It is totally fine if you disagree with me. Like I have said earlier, I am not here to "fit in" or to win some popularity contest by blindly agreeing with you or others.

I will give my views and try my best to stick to this forum's posting rules. I might also venture to think of the possibilities of something far beyond my immediate stance on something. 

You are free to skip my posts if you like.


----------



## nirvana

Mr The Other said:


> Your tone was ridiculous, which is why you quite understandably irked someone. A claim to high greater wisdom has to be well backed up, otherwise it is just refusing to discuss and a sign of delusion. The actual statement you made about the issue was reasonable, but pretty much another assertion of your viewpoint.
> 
> There are plenty who make broad generalizations on here, or comment on particular scenarios. Caveats to the statement might be useful in such cases.


You figured out my tone from reading my post? Really?
Are you sure you aren't just looking for "proof" to agree with your per-conceived notions about me?

Look, I am not interesting in arguing with you or with anyone else. So like I said, feel free to skip my posts. My last post on this matter.


----------



## Mr The Other

nirvana said:


> You figured out my tone from reading my post? Really?
> Are you sure you aren't just looking for "proof" to agree with your per-conceived notions about me?
> 
> Look, I am not interesting in arguing with you or with anyone else. So like I said, feel free to skip my posts. My last post on this matter.


I am telling you the impression I got. You are welcome to tell me I actually got a different impression if you like. 

It is perhaps the first of you posts to which I have replied. I certainly did not have a pre-conceived notion of you, I have that for very few posters.


----------



## turnera

nirvana, I've been alongside you on your journey here, and I feel for you, but I've gotta tell you...you STILL show a LOT of Nice Guy personalities. What exactly ARE you doing to improve yourself? All you seem to be doing anymore is *****ing about people and being snarky. I get that your marriage sucks. But it will continue to suck...until YOU do something to change it.


----------

