# Kink



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I would like to talk about this. Specifically, I am talking to people who enjoy this as a lifestyle, who basically have probably an inborn need for it, who have been kinky since early childhood, or at least as long as they can remember.

I am not really talking about bedroom games, with an equal relationship outside the sex chamber, though I think thoughts from anyone should be considered. We all have learned things in life, and someone who isn't like this could still have helpful information to offer.

So, I have been kinky ever since I can remember, and it is not going away, anymore than my height or the color of my eyes. 

But I married a man who is not kinky. And while he enjoys that I am, and certainly benefits from it, he is not naturally this way himself, and I think it is a kind of mismatch. 

But I am not giving up this relationship. We have been together for nearly 21 years, and he is just a great guy, in every way. I have just had too many women over time tell me he is a great guy to prioritize kink over the general relationship.

But this need for more does not go away. And I want to find a way to probably up dh's willingness to do more, even though it is not something he needs.

I can just talk to him about it, and that might work. He really does love me, and he will listen, and somewhat act, to some extent. But he does read these boards, and I think posting about it, and maybe getting some input from other posters, will make more of an impression on him than just my talking to him.

My real concern is that throughout the marriage, I have been attracted to other men, and I don't like that. My dh is a wonderful guy, and I feel like that energy should go to him.

I know many people feel that attraction to other people is normal, and to some extent it is, but I don't feel right about it. I feel like 100% of me should go to my dh. I really feel I should be 100% dedicated to him, and subsequently, to our children. That just feels right to me.

I know he appreciates this, but sometimes I think it has been used against me. I need to matter, too. And that is where I don't know where the balance is.

I used to have temper tantrums around kink. I would beg him to make this a priority, because I am not going to go outside of the marriage to get it. He is really my only way to get it, to feel his power, and for many years he always said no, the kids would hear. And I understood this, and of course want what is best for the kids, too, and so would blow up, apologize, and put it off until the next blowup.

He did always say that when the kids got older, there would be more opportunity. And that is true. We can be together in this way more now than before. But we have another 13 years before we are empty nesters. I will be 56 and he 59. I don't really want to wait that long.

I think the real problem, though, is that it is not a need for him. He enjoys it, he certainly loves the power, but it is not a need. He does not feel frustrated when it is not fulfilled. I think he feels very satisfied in his type and level of dominance.

I grew up in a dysfunctional home filled with dominant men. I hated my dad and couldn't wait to get away from him. And yet, I am naturally attracted, to some extent, to abusers. I don't think I would have stayed with an abuser, but I am attracted to them.

So having dh, this upstanding young French executive, who at one point had considered the priesthood, just to serve the poor, and who just exuded (and still exudes) goodness, tell me one day 21 years ago that he loved me, kind of shocked me. He is a genuinely good guy, genuinely secure. In my opinion, truly a liberated man. He could be really happy in an equal marriage. Or could have been before he was with me. Now he probably could not. He's spoiled.

I cannot deny him, and I don't just mean sexually. I feel like the whole point of my life is to please him, to make him happy in every way. I feel really bad when I do not please him completely. And he tells me regularly how much he "enjoys" me and how "fully satisfied" he is with me. So I know I am doing more or less a good job, according to his requirements.

Harmony in the marriage, and subsequently in the family, is the number one priority in my life, and there is almost nothing I will not do to maintain it. I think I am an INFP, according to the Myers-Briggs test. Can you tell?

But I would like to feel the same way as I make dh feel, and I think not feeling attracted to other men would be a good gauge.

Dh, I know you are reading. What are you willing to do? How much of a priority are you willing to make me? How much do you care?

Fellow readers, have you experienced something like this? Is this too taboo of a subject to talk about? Surely someone else out there has dealt with this, too. I would appreciate your input.

I'm not really asking for any one specific thing or act or practice from dh. I really just want more of a general openness and subsequent commitment to action. I don't think I even have one particular thing in mind, just an overall attitude.

Last thing: Where there is a will, there is a way. Dh told me for years we could not go out to dinner alone together. We always had to take the kids. I would ask to have a babysitter, and it was always no, the kids need to be with us, they need their parents.

Well, one day his boss asked him for us to have dinner with him the next day. All of a sudden, dh found the names of two babysitters. 

I was stunned. When I had asked, repeatedly, over the years, it was just not possible, he didn't know any sittters, the kids needed us, blah blah blah. But when his boss wanted something, my gosh, it was going to happen.

I guess I would just like to be the priority his work is, at least some of the time.

Kind of scared to post this, but here goes.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

1. Getting out with out the kids MUST be a regular and frequent priority!

2. Getting away for a weekend, or in your case a full week, needs to be a regular priority!

In terms of kink, my H is more worried about the kids then I am. I always wonder if he would feel differently if we had sons in the house as opposed to daughters...

You could alter your home or bedroom. Insulate your bedroom for noise control, move you bedroom to another part of the home to ensure more privacy so you have the freedom to fly your freak flag!

When you've got a freak flag, it's important to fly as often as possible. How often? Depends on what you need. Just like men get bored with sex in the same position following the same routine, those with a freak flag in the closet need to get it up that pole on a regular basis!

So yeah, step it up Mr JLD!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks a lot, AP. If there is anything I have learned here, it is that you have to accept who you are, completely. You can't let what other people think, or what society teaches, or whatever, get in your way. We are who we are, and our happiness comes from accepting that.

I am sure he will read this, and I really appreciate your response.

Last Sat. all four boys went to the movies. That gave us 2 hours together. That was nice, not having to leave the house. Sometimes I feel like we are fugitives from our children.

We have talked about going somewhere next month. I don't know if it will be for a whole week, or where. But dh seems pretty into it. He just works so much, you know? He is in Germany right now, and so we are just, again, having limited communication time due to time differences. I am heading off with the boys to see dd18 this weekend, so we will lose some connection time today, too.

At least I do matter to him. Maybe I don't get everything I want, but the relationship is basically sound. It is actually a good foundation for pursuing something even deeper. I just want to make sure we both understand how important this is. You have contributed to that, and I am sure he will listen. Thanks.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Number two above, should read "getting away *without the kids.....*


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lol, AP. We got the message.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I am concerned that you feel attraction to other men sometimes, in combination with not getting your needs met to your satisfaction. That is kinda dangerous.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I know, FW, and that is the point of this post. I don't really think I would do that, and he is sure I wouldn't. But I just think that energy that goes into even unintended attraction should be going to dh, and could go to him, and will go to him, when he turns away from his business e-mails and really looks at me, and really listens to me when I talk about it, and takes it as seriously as meeting his department's savings directives for the year. I just don't think it is optional.

I know he is going to read this today. I am headed out for several hours, but I know seeing this all posted here is going to make an impression on him. Thanks, FW.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I understand...and it isn't that you will suddenly jump up and screw some other man. But there is something you are wanting from your H, and other men will slide in there to try to fill those needs if you aren't careful. Especially on the dominance stuff. If it would thrill you to hear even the simplest instruction from a man, you are in dangerous water. Whereas I think if your H stepped in a bit more on this, you wouldn't be as vulnerable.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Yes, well I had mr. jld ranked a bit higher than that. 

Your needs are as important as the kids needs. 

We had babysitters many times when I was young and I do not feel abused by not having my parents there constantly. In fact I am probably better for it. 

My wife does not have a kinky bone in her body as far as I can tell. I wish she did. I am pretty mild myself but it is very difficult to reign myself in completely. Particularly for anyone who suspects that we only get one chance to live you do not want to feel like you are missing out on life and having to give away part of yourself is a hard sacrifice.

Sorry I am in the camp who thinks that thinking of other people is hard wired into our brains. It is not a real choice. All we do have is the ability for self control. 

You seem to me to be a rational person who is in control. For rational people kinks are just games that keep their minds young and active. 

How often are you talking about if you could have sex tailored to you once a month would that be enough?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> How often are you talking about if you could have sex tailored to you once a month would that be enough?


That wouldn't be enough for me. 2-3 times a month to fly the freak flag would do it. I guess it depends on how you express that freak flag, and does the freak flag always have to be expressed explicitly during sex, and if sometimes it can be expressed on the DL and other times pull out all the stops... But for me, 2-3 times on the DL...I can live with that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Poor dh. It's not that he's not dominant. He probably is moreso than some men that seem to call themselves dominants. And he is not selfish about it.

But you're right, that something is not adequate. But I am afraid some of that is an imprint from my own father and brothers, and that was really unhealthy. Healthy D/s is kind of hard to achieve, I think.

I feel lucky to be with a healthy man, and a man who will listen. But he needs motivation to listen. 

I think he is just more easily satisfied than I am. Again, he is not naturally kinky. He just enjoys having a kinky wife. It all works out great for him, you know? I think he sensed it right away when he met me.

Thanks again, FW. You are an incredible resource.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I agree with AP and FW.

This needs to be a priority for your H. I am very good friends with a couple that sounds like you.

He is a very good, upstanding, and hard working man. She is a barbarian. She loves her husband but is attracted to bad boys. In the first two years of their marriage, she cheated on him 2 or 3 times and left him for a bad boy.

They are reconciled now 6 years, but she is still frustrated with his nice Guy routine in and out of the bedroom. It is something I have tried very hard to convey to him, I am definitely a "bad" boy, but he really struggled with it and never puts it as a priority.

I am afraid that she might go outside their marriage again or just leave him. Her frustration is palpable.
To make matters worse, she is sometimes painfully polite around me and always has to follow up a compliment to me with an explanation that she loves me like a brother.

Nothing would ever happen with us but it sucks that she can't relax when they are visiting more.

Not saying you would ever cheat but living in tense frustration sucks.

I hope your husband can make some peace with his dark side, we all have one, and let "him" out once in a while to scratch your itch. 
Best wishes.
BTW. My wife is a lady in all aspects but after foreplay and some warm up sex, she loves being devoured by "him" and is extremely fulfilled when I let "him" out to totally take her. She likes riding the storm.

Smiles.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> Yes, well I had mr. jld ranked a bit higher than that.
> 
> Your needs are as important as the kids needs.
> 
> ...


How do you live with a non-kinky wife if you are kinky? How can you stand that? You are much less demanding than I am.

No, once a month is not even close to enough.

It's hard to even talk accurately about this, because it is kind of a cloud in my mind.

I am kinky. This is how I live. This is how I think. That first sentence of yours, for example, really hurts my feelings. I just take any criticism of dh so personally. It probably isn't very rational. And I am sorry to be so sensitive. It is my problem.

I think there must be a difference between natural male dominance and kinky dominance. 

Early on in our relationship, I got mad at dh and went into our bedroom and locked the door. I flopped on the bed and started to read.

Next thing I knew, he was picking the lock! And the look in his eyes when he opened the door. He came right at me and I knew he was planning to rape me.

But when he got to me and started pulling my clothes off, I felt excited. And I am not even one to have rape fantasies. And I helped him take my clothes off. So it didn't even end up being rape. And he stopped to put on a condom, because he knew I didn't want to be pregnant at 23.

To me, that is natural male dominance. To others, it is rape, I guess. But I think that is different than kinky dominance. And I don't even know if I can explain it.

He expects compliance, but he certainly takes his knowledge of me into account. But because I am basically responsible and trustworthy, I am left to just manage on my own most of the time.

I think I probably just need more attention, and he needs to be more demanding. And we both need some time to just us, and not our children.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@CH: I am not now or ever leaving my husband, or going to have an affair. I am transparent with him and tell him immediately when I feel attracted to another man. But I do need more. I need to be a priority.

We have a contractor who, along with his crews, did most of the work on our home. And ds14 mentioned to me one day that he noticed I always got really excited when he came to our house, and that he always looked really excited to see me, too. I'm not going to have an affair with the contractor. But yes, it worries me a little that I seem to fit more naturally with some men than with my dh. He is so smart and such a good person, but I feel like he lives on a higher plane than I do. And I feel kind of ridiculous sometimes for not relating better to him.

It just pains me to admit these things. But I think the point of an internet forum is to say things we cannot easily say in our own lives. And dh is reading this. He called me a little bit ago and I asked him to. I still don't think he is worried, though. He tells me I have a big imagination. But that imagination is not being used the right way. And that is the point of this: to show dh that I need to be a priority. And even if he does not need it, I do.

And I do feel a bit bad for saying all this. Dh does more than a lot of men, and he is naturally secure. No passive aggressive BS. He doesn't care if I get mad. His core is not shaken. He does not seek me out; I am always going to him.  He is a natural loner. And I really do belong to him. I can't see myself without him.

I wasn't able to talk in real life about these things before joining TAM and the social group for it here. Talking with people like FW and AP has been helpful. They know a lot and I don't feel so strange. I tried to talk to a few friends about it a decade ago, and one doesn't even speak to me anymore. And one just laughed at me like crazy. 

I look like a very normal person. And we have a happy, loving marriage with happy kids. And dh is more of a leader than a lot of guys. But yes, I think, maybe from what I grew up with, maybe from the intensity of my personality, I just need to see the inner beast more. And it is there. I have felt it. I can tell you, I have definitely felt it. But the conditions need to be there, too. All needs to be worked on. Which is why I am posting.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> That wouldn't be enough for me. 2-3 times a month to fly the freak flag would do it. I guess it depends on how you express that freak flag, and does the freak flag always have to be expressed explicitly during sex, and if sometimes it can be expressed on the DL and other times pull out all the stops... But for me, 2-3 times on the DL...I can live with that.


Well you know Anon, I am always the one trying to seek some low level compromise when dealing with things like this. I guess I think in terms of trying to establish some minimum level or foundation and then building on top of that.

For myself I recognize that flying my freak flag even twice a month out of the four times we have sex, would be overall detrimental to our sex life, because my wife is just not comfortable enough and would consider it stressful.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

I had to google kink.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I guess I view my kinks as being kinks. Something that is outside of basic sex, like any other vise, something that should be done in moderation -just like you realizing the difference between fantasizing about other men and actually finding other men. 

Like I said I am not extremely kinky so reigning in my desires and using my imagination instead of my wife to fulfil that part is not so hard for me.

I did come very close to leaving my wife a few years back. I try to see the good things.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

jld I know you said it pains you to hear criticism of your DH, but sometimes I think what you are saying is that you feel taken for granted. Is that accurate? Your DH can continue to do what he is doing and still get exactly what he wants from you . . . because it is your kink to please him. What is his incentive to step things up? What is his incentive to make you more of a priority, to treat your demands as seriously as he treats the demands of his boss?

You already said that showing your negative emotions (i.e. throwing a tantrum) doesn't affect him--he stays cool and strong and imperious to your intensity. You already said that just talking to him won't dissuade him from his course (as with the babysitter issue). When HAS he given in to a demand and put effort into giving you what you want? Has he ever had to work on something for you, to move outside his comfort zone, or compromise what he wants to do in the marriage?

In a lot of ways, it sounds like the two of you are a natural good match. You are submissive and he is naturally dominant enough to enable you to continue to want to please him. But in order to move forward with the lifestyle you want, he will need to make changes, right? What is his history of making changes 100% to meet your needs--not because it was a convenient or rational thing to do at the time for other reasons--but ONLY to meet your needs? Has this happened enough for you to feel like you are not being "taken for granted"?


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

This will sound silly, but you could perhaps benefit from some safe ways of increasing aggression, adrenaline, and by extension, bring out the animal inside naturally.

I suggest Pillow fights. Me and an old girlfriend would sometimes be sitting on the bed, one of us is talking, maybe look away while they are talking and the other one would suddenly whack the other in the head with a pillow, trying to catch them off guard.

It was like a 'gotcha, what you gonna do about it?' game.

It could get pretty aggressive. This would lead to wrestling on the bed and on the floor, on occasion a bit of slapping - we would slap each others faces trying to avoid getting hit ourselves - mind the eyes! - and a lot of laughing.

It could have unexpected results if you just hit him in the face with a pillow without him knowing it's a game,

so I'd start off with just your standard pillow fights, where you both know it's coming first.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I think the type of kink you speak of qualifies as "alternative lifestyle" kink. At least that is the way my h and I have come to view it. You can't just "turn it on" a few times a month. It's a 24/7 desire to live that way. 

Having the kink is one thing; turning it into a structured lifestyle with your spouse is another. You and you h are able to talk about this openly, but you are the one with the strong kink; therefore I think the onus is on you to be clear what you need _specifically_ in order to feel satisfied. 

I don't suggest that getting EVERYTHING you want is necessarily realistic; however, you've expressed clearly that you feel like you are somewhat undervalued, or at least that you are putting more effort into attending to his needs than he is to yours ("I would like to feel the same way as I make DH feel"). 

His needs sound pretty basic: you take care of the kids and the house so that he can focus on his job. You are loving and submissive, giving in to his desires even when they are counter to your own. In other words, he doesn't have to ask you to step out of your comfort zone, he doesn't have to negotiate with you in order to get what he wants and needs. You, on the other hand, are feeling like you can't get him to budge. You need more from him that he provides from "just being himself."

Is this accurate? Is this what makes you feel frustrated?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I see a little similarity here between this couple and SA and her husband. SA says she would like a bit more "oomph" and rough play from her husband, in his attitude toward her and in the bedroom...and SA's hubby just says something equivalent to "I ain't that way baby, but you got the best of my love" and then gives her his own personal eroticism instead. And SA does love and enjoy this, but still wants that little "oomph". (Or she did before...I am not sure about lately, perhaps she will weigh in). The way she describes her husband's attitude about it sounds like jld's hubby. Which is very self-assured and self-aware. I am who I am, type of thing (and they both love who he is).

Yet in both of these marriages, I see an early pairing of a very good match, a bunch of kids, a bunch of love...and a lot to be envious of.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> I see a little similarity here between this couple and SA and her husband. * SA says she would like a bit more "oomph" and rough play from her husband, in his attitude toward her and in the bedroom...and SA's hubby just says something equivalent to "I ain't that way baby, but you got the best of my love" and then gives her his own personal eroticism instead. And SA does love and enjoy this, but still wants that little "oomph".* (Or she did before...I am not sure about lately, perhaps she will weigh in). The way she describes her husband's attitude about it sounds like jld's hubby. Which is very self-assured and self-aware. I am who I am, type of thing (and they both love who he is).
> 
> Yet in both of these marriages, I see an early pairing of a very good match, a bunch of kids, a bunch of love...and a lot to be envious of.


FW...you explained that so well...







.... Loved the "I ain't that way baby, but you got the best of my love"...HOW TRUE IT IS...I've caused hissy fits, pinned him down growling -telling him what I wanted him to DO TO ME...play by play.... started a "Spice jar"......Bought this book Just Fvck Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom 

Although it may seem like some similarities.... just from a little chatting... I know I am not as "kinky" as JLD....also she is naturally a *submissive *where I am more a *dominate* (just as her & husband are opposites as well)......If I was wanting what SHE wants...Heavens...I'd have to ditch my husband !!... 

What saves us is.... I am more geared a Romantic over a Kinky broad... 

Yeah.... I'd LOVE to feel some AGGRESSIVE DESIRE..a little Rape fantasy going on.... but I still have *HIS desire* (ultimately for me, THIS is what matters)....it's just more "sensually" expressed..."the slow hand with the easy touch"......and I always get mine......so is there really anything to get frustrated over.....it's more like a "Calm your Jets woman"!....this was taking place mostly when my hormones were on FIRE....this has calmed significantly.

What happened.... I just got aggressive with him ... and he liked it ! Win / win... Some things just has to be left for "fantasy"...

But yeah... it's all good.

I don't know the answer for these mismatches....not really sure we can change who we are -some of these things are fetishes, aren't they? ...can we "role play" this and still be aroused if it's not in our nature... I don't know...


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Well, SA and JLD at least you can talk about it! I feel like I can tak to my H about anything except my fantasies. I really believe he would be down with just about anything, so I think this would open up Pandora's box because there is definitely one thing that I don't even want to think about doing. He has said we are both in agreement with that but I'm betting if I told him of my fantasies he would think this one taboo is okay too. 

So, at least both of you got to the point where you could discuss it. I don't think I can.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> I suggest Pillow fights. Me and an old girlfriend would sometimes be sitting on the bed, one of us is talking, maybe look away while they are talking and the other one would suddenly whack the other in the head with a pillow, trying to catch them off guard.


I guess the knife play to which my wife would eventually elevate that game would constitute kink, but when you're a cutter, isn't it supposed to be on yourself?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> jld I know you said it pains you to hear criticism of your DH, but sometimes I think what you are saying is that you feel taken for granted. Is that accurate? Your DH can continue to do what he is doing and still get exactly what he wants from you . . . because it is your kink to please him. What is his incentive to step things up? What is his incentive to make you more of a priority, to treat your demands as seriously as he treats the demands of his boss?
> 
> You already said that showing your negative emotions (i.e. throwing a tantrum) doesn't affect him--he stays cool and strong and imperious to your intensity. You already said that just talking to him won't dissuade him from his course (as with the babysitter issue). When HAS he given in to a demand and put effort into giving you what you want? Has he ever had to work on something for you, to move outside his comfort zone, or compromise what he wants to do in the marriage?
> 
> In a lot of ways, it sounds like the two of you are a natural good match. You are submissive and he is naturally dominant enough to enable you to continue to want to please him. But in order to move forward with the lifestyle you want, he will need to make changes, right? What is his history of making changes 100% to meet your needs--not because it was a convenient or rational thing to do at the time for other reasons--but ONLY to meet your needs? Has this happened enough for you to feel like you are not being "taken for granted"?


We are a good match. He is really smart and calm, and I am really intense and emotional. He needs my stimulation, and I need his stability.

See, there aren't really any consequences for him. It's always just whatever he feels like doing. What power do I have? I can't leave him. I don't want to leave him. Just hearing his voice is so calming, so reassuring to me. I need him, and we both know it.

Dh is a loner. He is very independent. He doesn't care about little girl temper tantrums. What is there to fear? He certainly doesn't feel he needs to leave the room when I am screaming at him.

And he's not insulted. His pride is not put "at risk" by my anger, or really any of my emotions. His core is solid. 

And sometimes I read about men who take on the emotions of their wives. That doesn't happen here. He is almost always calm. He has a very steady mood that mine cannot seem to penetrate.

If I really go at it, and just scream like crazy, then he might yell back. It's like I am trying to get some emotion out of him. I want him to feel like I feel.

So I am married to Mr. Calm. He doesn't get rocked. 

And I need that. I need someone as strong as I am, someone who is not scared of my emotions or my intellect. Dh is great that way.

So emotionally we connect really well. But again, I am kinky and he is not. He appreciates it, but he doesn't _need_ it.

I don't really understand why things don't bother him. He lets the kids run wild, in my opinion. And the thing is, they really have outgrown a lot of things over time, so I can't really say he is wrong. But at the time, it drives me crazy. I expect him to back me up, and he tells me to just relax. I hate that.

Ds14 did tell me once, though, that dh got mad after a few days of staying alone with the boys. Two years ago, my daughter and I went to a homeschooling conference for 4 days. By the third day, ds14 said, Dad was yelling and getting after them.

So maybe it is just that he is mostly away and doesn't feel the heat from being with kids all the time?

I think everything I do for him, he appreciates. But he doesn't _need_ it. And that makes me sad, because I do. And I need to feel it matters that I do it.

In some ways I don't even feel necessary. He really can do everything I can. He is just very smart and hardworking and kind and patient. And the kids really like him, and really, everybody I know likes him. And when he is home on the weekends I sit and read and he runs the kids around and makes lunch and corrals the kids to clean up the house. He does mechanical stuff (he is an engineer) and takes care of the cars and all that kind of thing. Plus he makes all the money. How am I needed again?

Even sexually he is not demanding. I don't get all the criticism here of duty sex. I have lain there plenty of times, esp. when the kids were little. He didn't care. To him, it is all good. No standards, no expectations, I swear.

And even when it is much more exciting, and I know he enjoys it, it's not like he would be mad if it were not that way the next day. Basically, he tells me what to do and I do it. He enjoys my ideas, too, but I think he can live without them. Honestly, as long as he gets PIV, I don't think he really cares about much else.

Where is the challenge? He is satisfied in every way. Never wants gifts, doesn't get mad very often. Genuinely happy with his life.

And yet he always tells me he loves me and I am the only woman he wants to be with. I don't know why. I am not sure what I am bringing that no one else can.

The times that he has done things for me just because I wanted were usually after years of talking to him about the thing, screaming about it, making empty threats, and then basically giving up. And then one day, he would just shock me by doing it.

But I can't be with someone else. So many men are such jerks. I mean, every man is selfish, including my dh, but most are so much more. And I wouldn't follow a guy I didn't really believe in. I couldn't.

To make this post even longer . . . Dh wanted the kids homeschooled, but in a relaxed way. So our kids were playing and having a good time when they were elementary school age. Other kids, even homeschooled kids, were doing workbooks and lessons and stuff like that. And I would get nervous because we weren't doing what everybody else was. And dh would always say, relax, they are fine, just let them be.

And then the kids got older, around 11 or 12, and they wanted to study. And dd18 had fabulous SAT scores. And ds14 scored off the charts on the IQ test they gave him before his bone marrow transplant last year. And ds11, who didn't learn to read until he was 9, knows tons of stuff.

It was like all my worries were unfounded. Dh just had faith in the kids, and it turned out fine. 

So I believe in him, but I don't really, at the heart of me, get all that faith and goodness and gentleness. I spank the kids and slap them across the face if I think they have it coming.

So I think he has the right ideas, but they are so different from my natural inclinations. And yes, this has gotten far afield from the original questions.

Okay, one more thing: I asked him a few months ago why he put me off so many times when I would ask him to indulge my kinks. He told me he felt he didn't have to do anything for me, that I was pretty much trapped. And so if he didn't feel like it, why bother?

He feels bad about it now. He knows it was wrong.

That hurt my feelings so much. It still hurts. 

And I cannot believe I am admitting all this.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> and other men will slide in there to try to fill those needs if you aren't careful...


I have a bit of concern over this statement... what I mean is that a husband should not be doing something out of concern that he needs to to keep his wife from straying...

I am not saying it right - what I want to say is that a husband (or a wife) should do something for their SO because it will make the SO happier - or more fulfilled.... NOT because they HAVE to to keep the SO in check. 

Unfortunately JLD your last post just comes right out and says just that. He doesn't feel any need to do these things for you because there is no risk for him... well other than having a spouse who is less than 100 % fulfilled. 

I think that is the real risk - in my opinion...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> I think the type of kink you speak of qualifies as "alternative lifestyle" kink. At least that is the way my h and I have come to view it. You can't just "turn it on" a few times a month. It's a 24/7 desire to live that way.
> 
> Having the kink is one thing; turning it into a structured lifestyle with your spouse is another. You and you h are able to talk about this openly, but you are the one with the strong kink; therefore I think the onus is on you to be clear what you need _specifically_ in order to feel satisfied.
> 
> ...


Could be. I really do love him. I always feel like having sex with him. I think if I didn't love him, I wouldn't want that.

I read here about women who are turned off by their husbands, who don't want to have sex with them because they are weak and passive. I always want to have sex with him. It's rare that I have turned him down, and only for a night. Then I am back on.

Good grief, it is a way to get some affection and attention. Do you notice me, dh?

I feel so safe with dh, so understood. He just accepts me the way I am. I know he loves me.

I really admire the person he is. He really is just so good, so smart, so just. But it's like he's so perfect, I can't relate.

And again, he is so independent. He could have been a priest. He doesn't really need me. He just wants me, I guess.

I mean, I wouldn't want to be with a needy guy, but I don't like feeling totally optional, either.

One thing I love about D/s rituals is that they really bring out a tender side to him. Otherwise he is a lot like a machine. Constantly working, not emotional, very much like a robot. Doesn't exteriorize much if I don't ask for it. 

The rituals are a way for him to notice me, and for me to feel loved, too. But I feel like it is all so optional to him, and I feel silly reiterating how important it is to me. It's like trying to explain why you want something extra when the base model will do.

I love him so much and I want to show him this way, and when I do he likes it, but he doesn't need it. So there is no effort from him to support a structure. And for sure, the kids come first. And even that sounds so responsible, so mature. And what I want just seems so dispensable.

I am going to have to leave TAM when I am done with this thread. I am so embarrassed.

He called me this afternoon, having read the thread. He wasn't mad at all. He said it was good I am writing about his faults. He said I am always praising him, and it is not realistic. 

I can't tell you how many times I have been shocked when he hasn't known something or has made a mistake, and he has responded, "I am not a perfect man." I have heard that so many times. But I am so shocked every time he shows imperfection.

I know I idealize him, even with some of the hurts I feel. He is just so dependable, so reliable, so solid. I can count on him. He makes me feel safe, even if he won't do the extras.

I don't think he knows it's Valentine's Day, lol. He didn't mention it. He provides for me, and that is already a huge gift.

So when he called, he told me to stop overreacting, be realistic, stop fixating, and that he would make some efforts. He also told me he likes how I challenge him, just like he likes how his job challenges him.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Odd how that definition of kink is so different for people.

A fair number here and other forums are fine with / want spanking. yawn.
Some want it so hard they welt. Shudder
a fair number want basic male aggressiveness.
some want to be humiliated/ degraded. WTF?

We had one guys wife that ended up pegging an OM. (Yea I know if it was real) Triple shudder.

Ill never understand the more extreme end of it.

Is anyone here into that extreme stuff? Welting? Humiliation? shudder.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Well, SA and JLD at least you can talk about it! I feel like I can tak to my H about anything except my fantasies. I really believe he would be down with just about anything, so I think this would open up Pandora's box because there is definitely one thing that I don't even want to think about doing. He has said we are both in agreement with that but I'm betting if I told him of my fantasies he would think this one taboo is okay too.
> 
> So, at least both of you got to the point where you could discuss it. I don't think I can.


Oh C4E, if only you knew how long it took me to tell my husband about my kink.... If I told him all of it, right from the get go, I think I would have scared the stuffing out of him.

I started slow. Took one tiny little aspect and talked about adding that. Showed him a story I had written and talked about doing a few things, not all of it. Honestly I didn't want all of it any way. Little bit here, little bit there...

I'm sure your husband will be thrilled to know your sexual fantasies. You know almost every husband wants to know this about his wife.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I guess the knife play to which my wife would eventually elevate that game would constitute kink, but when you're a cutter, isn't it supposed to be on yourself?


:lol:

I bet your wife might get into a pillow fight one time! Once she has embraced the sexual being hiding inside the uptight woman. It's possible! Maybe I'm naive, but I believe it's possible and perhaps even likely!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I know how it feels, what you're going through right now. Kids and home and home and kids and laundry and sports, and classes, and books, and home and kids and kids and home and round and round every day more of the same and when the hell is MY time!

Your job is 24/7/365 with no sick days, no vacation days, no time off, no raises, no promotions, no awards banquets, no pats on the back...totally thankless! But we do it because we are nurturers and we love to nurture, love, and give affection and sooth and care and prop up and teach, and support...

Your tank runs empty around the 20 year mark and that's when you have to take a complete assessment of your life. We are not promised a long one. Who knows how long we will be here. We only get one single shot at this life! 

I refuse to put off what I want for happiness any longer. You are at that stage too. I had some diseases and deaths that I could point to and say, "See, what the hell are we waiting for? I want your passion and you love now, not when I'm 65, NOW!"





jld said:


> Could be. I really do love him. I always feel like having sex with him. I think if I didn't love him, I wouldn't want that.
> 
> I read here about women who are turned off by their husbands, who don't want to have sex with them because they are weak and passive. I always want to have sex with him. It's rare that I have turned him down, and only for a night. Then I am back on.
> 
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

sparkyjim said:


> I have a bit of concern over this statement... what I mean is that a husband should not be doing something out of concern that he needs to to keep his wife from straying...
> 
> I am not saying it right - what I want to say is that a husband (or a wife) should do something for their SO because it will make the SO happier - or more fulfilled.... NOT because they HAVE to to keep the SO in check.
> 
> ...


Jim...I know it may sound alarmist, but weird little EA's happen all the time in this type of scenario...even on TAM (actually I have heard of several of them on TAM). And jld is vulnerable right now. I didn't mean to pin it on "some dude" sliding in there to swipe her away...although that is how it sounded. But I more meant it like, when you leave the gate open, sometimes other creatures will wander in or out. That's just common sense.

Jld is expressing outwardly her attraction to other men here and there, and her lack of needs met by her H. Those in combination are what the real problem is...and I don't mean she's gonna run off with one of them. Just an EA is possible though. And that's not good either.

I wouldn't be saying this if she hadn't said it herself.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I can't get at what you really think or feel. Everything is so contradictory. You sound depressed and extremely distressed. There is this seething undertone of resentment in so much of what you post.

- your husband listens to you so well and meets your emotional needs
- you feel unnecessary to him and have to beg for attention
- your husband is perfect and understands you so well 
- your husband is robotic and emotionless


That's pretty much just from one post. 

Did you want the life you have? Did you want to have five children, homeschool them, breastfeed them? Or was that all your husband's plan? 

As you noted in another thread, I live a similar life to you, although I only have two children and mine are younger. But I feel none of the resentment and bewilderment I sense in your posts because I chose my life. I chose my husband and I also chose the way I live. I believe extended breastfeeding, attachment parenting and homeschooling/unschooling are the best ways for my children to live and it's also the life I want to live. So far it brings me joy every day. If that stops, then we will change things.

My husband supports my decisions and he sees clearly that it's me who will be doing the bulk of the work, so if I didn't want to live this way, we wouldn't. We would send them to school and certainly not breastfeed for 7 years straight. Nobody dictates what I do with my body.

If you are reaching a level of frustration so intense that you slap your children across the face, that's not healthy. I don't believe in smacking either, but I know many do. I don't think I've heard anyone say it's fine to strike a child across the face. 

Maybe you need to make some changes in your life. Relieve some of the pressure.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes, I know they are contradictory, Lyris. I hear it, too. And I can tell you they are exactly how I feel.

We don't learn anything from people who hide. The real opportunity on an anonymous forum is that we can express ourselves exactly how we feel, just spill it out. And some people are able to see patterns that we probably cannot see in our own lives.

And Lyris, some people are able to see with their hearts, and not just their heads.

I was just numb last night when I went to bed. I would say bereft, but it was more like numb. I had just completely spilled my heart, and then somebody makes an insensitive post. 

Do you think I want to feel these things? Do you think I want to feel contradictory things? Do you think I would not rather have everything just perfectly lined up in a row?

I woke up this morning and was hit by everything I had written yesterday, and this feeling that I need to leave now, because basically I turned my heart inside out and just let everyone see it. Do you not think I feel embarrassed about that? Do you not think I know it is messy?

Isn't everyone's life messy? Is everyone else linear?

I love dh, with my heart and mind and soul. I just am completely tied in.

But yes, I feel attraction regularly. And it scares me when I see attraction coming back to me. I can feel that, too. I am not totally clueless. 

And I don't want to be vulnerable, which is the point of reaching out here and contacting FW, who I think runs some kind of counseling service (that would be good for dh and me because you are kink-friendly, FW, and you understand things my therapist doesn't, though she seems fascinated by the things I tell her, and actually, supportive). I am going to contact you about that. I don't think you have to be so helpful for free.

I just don't want to do anything bad. That is not the kind of person I want to be. But I need dh's help. I need him to see me, and not just say, you are strong, look how well you handled our son's illness, you will always do the right thing, I believe in you, and I will see you in two weeks. I don't want to just sit here and flounder.

And dh has made efforts. His voice alone has such an effect on me. His presence is very calming, very stabilizing. But he is not someone to be tied down. He would not be happy with a local job, just being with us all the time. He needs the international exposure, and the job with pressure and a lot of responsibility. It promotes his own personal growth. And all that is very fulfilling, and is part of who he is. And I love all that about him.

I love being with someone who is not needy. Someone who can hear all my emotions and truly let it slide off his back. Someone who loves me as much as he could love a woman, who maybe doesn't need me, but probably needs me as much as he can need someone. When you are married to Mr. Independent, you are never going to have the conflicts that women in marriages to needier, emotional men are going to have. I don't have to carry dh, but sometimes it just feels like he is not there, either.

I think one of the healthiest things we can do is be transparent. I am doing this here, even though it would be, at least in some ways, easier not to be. I hate hiding. I hate not telling the truth, freely and completely. I think we give each other a gift when we are raw and open and honest.

Dh is not going to change. Or he is not going to change until he feels like changing. I can scream and have a fit and air my marital dirty laundry, but he is only going to change as he sees fit.

At least he is not reactive. I see the reactions of some men, and I don't know how their women cope with that. It must be like having a child, having to manage his feelings and not overwhelm him and then deal with his immaturity. At least I don't have to deal with that. Better to be feeling kind of alone than feeling like I have another kid.

And it is good that you say what you do, FW, because dh is reading. He thinks I am, as you said, his lovely good girl, whom he trusts completely. And I am that, in many ways. But I am also human, and I am sick of feeling, even having, disloyal thoughts and feelings. And I think transparency cures that stuff pretty quickly, which is the main benefit to just being open and honest.

And yes, Lyris, the children/breastfeeding/homeschooling idea was dh's from the beginning. I accepted them because I thought that was how it had to be. And I have learned a lot and I certainly don't regret having our children. I think it was the right thing to do, and when I see how respectful and responsible the kids are, I know it was worth it. But it still takes a big toll on the mother.

And you are the emotional rock in your marriage. Your husband depends on you; you said he could and would emotionally divorce you. Dh would never do that. He just cannot give more than he can. But he would never hurt me purposefully. 

Dh is not emotional. He doesn't feel the things that I feel, and he doesn't really understand that depth of intensity that I have. He appreciates it, and he feels lucky to have my devotion. And he definitely feels sorry for me that I feel things so intensely. And sometimes he gets frustrated, too.

FW, you are so cute, asking me if dh and I are still talking. I need to call him this morning, but when I talked with him yesterday, he was just his normal self. The way he seems to see it, I need to vent, and if it makes me feel better, go ahead. And he was really glad to see some realistic posts about him. He just doesn't think I see him realistically most of the time. I have that Superman image of him, you know?

I just wish someone would post saying, you know, jld, I know how you feel. My dh is like this, too. And it drives me crazy, too, the aloofness. But it is also what I love about him, and what gives me so much security, that he is not dependent on me, that no matter what I throw at him, he is steadfast and steady, and when I am done emoting, he is the same rock he has always been, and somehow it doesn't matter what even happened, because he is just there for me. 

I keep saying dh is secure; is that not coming through? His security does not depend on me and what I do or say. His security is within him. I emote like a nut, but it doesn't rock him. He is solid.

My dad was the kind of "dominant" male who was always telling you what to do, always trying to lock you down, esp. your mind, with religion. Basically a total controller. And there was so much fear there, you just didn't dare upset him at all, he had such a temper.

Dh is not like this. He is secure, and so he doesn't have to control me. He actually told he has always thought I needed a lot of freedom. You know that saying, if you love someone, let them go, if they come back to you, they are yours, if they don't, they never were. That is my dh. He gives total freedom, and I keep coming back and eating out of his hand. I get so excited by little things from him.

But I do need to be held closer, and we are going to have to compromise on that. He is going to have to do things that he doesn't think are really necessary, and that truly are not for him. But I need them. I do a lot of things for him that probably were not the best for me (I think my mind has suffered from being an isolated SAHM for so many years), and he can do some things back.

He told me a few months ago that the best thing a father can do for his children is give them a smart mother, and then keep her at home. I gasped, "That is so sexist!" and he laughed and said, "I know."

I love that he just says what he thinks like that, no PC, but I know it sounds scandalous.

I obviously get something, a lot of things, out of staying with him, and I am truly tied into him. If I didn't love him so much, I couldn't be so committed. But it is not wise of him to take this for granted.

Sorry, folks. Life is messy. It is complex, and it takes sorting out. And I bet I am not the only one who realizes this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I would just like to thank you, AP, for your kindness and compassion, and just general understanding. I just cannot thank you enough.

I am surprised not more people have posted on this thread. Surely there are other people who feel this way. I got a pm from one who does. But I guess it takes courage to just put yourself out there publicly.

What are we doing here, if not to solve problems? 

I have to say, dh is following this thread pretty closely. I think he realizes he needs to engage more. That makes the thread worth it, let me tell you.

And I know he feels responsible for the marriage. I am so glad. I can only do so much. I can tell you I am not the super hero here.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

jld said:


> ...I just don't want to do anything bad. That is not the kind of person I want to be. But I need dh's help. I need him to see me, and not just say, you are strong, look how well you handled our son's illness, you will always do the right thing, I believe in you, and I will see you in two weeks. I don't want to just sit here and flounder.
> 
> ...I think one of the healthiest things we can do is be transparent. I am doing this here, even though it would be, at least in some ways, easier not to be. I hate hiding. I hate not telling the truth, freely and completely. I think we give each other a gift when we are raw and open and honest.
> 
> ...


jld, 

I love your openness and honesty. I admire your love and respect for your husband. You are so thoughtful and your posts show immense empathy! Your husband is very lucky to be married to you in my opinion.

It seems very clear to me that you are screaming for more attention from him.... but in certain ways. Do you think this is a communication issue, or a difference in personalities? I like what you said above..."the best thing we can do is be transparent". Have you been very transparent with EXACTLY what you need? Men like to be direct and straight forward. We are simple creatures. Especially engineers. I have a brother who is one, and one if my best friends is one too. Have you told him exactly what kind of attention you need to feel cherished and loved? Have you been very specific?

Early on in my marriage, I asked my wife...."what do YOU crave for me to do to your body when we are having sex?", and she would just say "everything that you already do is fine" and giggle. She could not be specific. I, as a man, wanted to know exactly what I could focus on to please her more....and meet her deepest, physical and emotional needs. She had trouble communicating this. Part of this was that she didn't know what truly turned her on. If she didn't know, how could she communicate what she needed or craved to me? How could I ever fulfill these needs of hers with out her telling me what she needed? :scratchhead:

One idea we then tried is called the "30 Minutes of Pleasure" exercise. Go and set a timer on the night stand to 30 minutes....on one night, your husband gets 30 minutes totally devoted to HIS pleasure. He can ask for anything he wants you to do, but he must ask you directly for it. He can choose anything in the world that he desires. You have the option to refuse if you feel uncomfortable, but you can also fulfill his deepest cravings and do whatever he asks. 

On another night, it is your 30 minutes of receiving pleasure....and you ask for exactly what you want. Anything goes...but you must ask and be specific.

The first time we tried this, my wife was too shy to even say out loud what she desired. She wrote down 3 items on a piece of paper...and I gladly fulfilled everything she asked for. The second time we did this, she vocalized her desires out loud and was more specific. By the third session, she was telling me which wall in the bedroom she wanted to be held up against, and what side of her clitoris was more sensitive than the other...etc..etc.. I learned a lot of "details" about her passions thru this simple exercise!!!! 

These sessions truly opened up Pandora's box....and we both learned a lot about what pleases each other. This exercise got her out of her box, and allowed her to communicate what she needed and desired in the bedroom. She always looked forward to the next time we would do this exercise. She learned a lot about me too, but when it is all said and done, I knew what she likes, craves, and desires. It is incredibly powerful to understand this type of detail about your spouse. From your posts, I think your husband needs to understand YOUR deepest desires in this same manner. Am I right?

Would your husband be open to trying this exercise? If so, you could ask him, and show him, exactly what YOU are needing. Men WANT to know what they can do to make their wives happy. Be bold. Show him. Take a chance. Do it. It seems like your relationship is quite strong and worthy of at least trying this fun exercise. 

Good luck to you, and I hope you keep posting on TAM. We all learn from others here, and I think you have a lot to offer!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *jld said*: Okay, one more thing: I asked him a few months ago why he put me off so many times when I would ask him to indulge my kinks.* He told me he felt he didn't have to do anything for me, that I was pretty much trapped. And so if he didn't feel like it, why bother?*
> 
> He feels bad about it now. He knows it was wrong.
> 
> ...


 can I say "WOW"... I am not sure how you would live this down...if you was not in the midst of a fight when this was said...how can this not paint how he looks at the situation...that yeah... he gets what he wants... Being so independent, running all over the world, only giving 10 days out of the month to his family... he knows you are committed & you sing his praises...so why do it...he sees you as his faithful devoted wife not going anywhere...

JLd... I am not sure how you deal with this... you're being naturally submissive & believing He is like a Superman... has allowed you to continue on...I suppose...

My ultimate question is... ARE YOU HAPPY? Can you live the rest of your life LIKE THIS...or are you screaming inside...... I know you want to be HAPPY.. but it is because you have tried to change your mindset so much to FIT this intended role... just to save your sanity? 




> *jld said*: *Dh is not going to change. Or he is not going to change until he feels like changing. I can scream and have a fit and air my marital dirty laundry, but he is only going to change as he sees fit*.


 I think this just answered my question... so you are screaming inside...and have been for a long long time... Mid Life is upon you now....with your hormones increasing...looking over your life... I , too, would worry if, given your intense feelings, that attraction to other men... that something COULD happen. Can I say....I am pretty in touch with my own weaknesses... . If I was married to a man as UN emotional as yours... I'd have to get out, or I probably would fall.. I need my man to NEED ME.... I WANT TO FEEL THAT from him, that I am irreplaceable, that I bring him to the heights , and all that mushy ****....

I think you want *some of this too*... you just have this conflict in your head and can't allow yourself to admit these things outright in black & white.. I had a similar conflict when I came to TAM..because I wanted my husband more aggressive, and he couldn't DO what I was fantasizing about... others were telling me I would RESENT a Passive man... I had to work through that... I wanted to defend him....and I did where it was GOOD to defend him... but I had to dig deep to open up our dynamics together...and make this work where I could be fulfilled...

Can I say.... if he was stoic... unfeeling...unemotional to what I wanted..There is no way I could have hung with it... his willingness to try... TO WANT TO PLEASE ME.. meant the world to me...in this I was able to find that *acceptance*..

That is all you are asking.. if may be difficult, it's not in his temperament make up.. but his WILLINGNESS to show he cares about his wife and her deep desires... GAWD...you NEED THAT..We all do! He gives to you, but look how you have held this family throughout the years... your time & devotion. 



> *jld said*: *At least he is not reactive. I see the reactions of some men, and I don't know how their women cope with that. It must be like having a child, having to manage his feelings and not overwhelm him and then deal with his immaturity. At least I don't have to deal with that. Better to be feeling kind of alone than feeling like I have another kid.*


 what you express here is one extreme to another.. I feel both are not healthy.... A man who shows he understands -due to that active listening....and holds his wife.. -not just not leaving the room... because he is Superman... some empathizing- some show of "I feel for you" -coming from his soul, trying to put himself in your shoes.. .."otherwise how can you not come off feeling "belittled"...a reactionary drama maker... with Superman standing there in his Perfection.....

... I am not sure how you are but... I NEED my husband to understand WHY I feel as I do... he may not necessarily agree with all of it or it's intensity... but he always shows he cares and ultimately wants my happiness...

DO YOU GET THIS from your husband... I FEEL THIS IS AN EMOTIONAL NEED of all wives...or you will continue to feel "empty"...or eventually...what happens...you will become NUMB...to deal with it. 



> *jld said:* Dh is not like this. He is secure, and so he doesn't have to control me. He actually told he has always thought I needed a lot of freedom. You know that saying, if you love someone, let them go, if they come back to you, they are yours, if they don't, they never were. That is my dh. He gives total freedom, and I keep coming back and eating out of his hand. I get so excited by little things from him.
> 
> But I do need to be held closer, and we are going to have to compromise on that. He is going to have to do things that he doesn't think are really necessary, and that truly are not for him. *But I need them*. I do a lot of things for him that probably were not the best for me (I think my mind has suffered from being an isolated SAHM for so many years), and he can do some things back.


 Yes.. you NEED some things from your husband to satisfy your soul... May he see this...and give you what your heart longs for, this is the spice of living, and feeling greatly loved..... even if he struggles to understand it all....I am happy to see you finally say this... 




> * jld said:** I love being with someone who is not needy. Someone who can hear all my emotions and truly let it slide off his back. Someone who loves me as much as he could love a woman, who maybe doesn't need me, but probably needs me as much as he can need someone. When you are married to Mr. Independent, you are never going to have the conflicts that women in marriages to needier, emotional men are going to have. I don't have to carry dh, but sometimes it just feels like he is not there, either.*


 Just because a Man may show strong feelings when hurt, or during a fight....or even craves to be with his woman....his family....doesn't necessarily make him "NEEDY"... I tend to get off -put when I hear others talk about neediness on this forum at times.. 

Here is the face of Neediness ...What you describe here could be called "THE SPONGE" taken from THIS BOOK"... expressing heart felt love / understanding to one another-by showing EMOTION , even in anger, a little outburst....I can't see this as neediness... and if you feel you fit any of this.. it is BECAUSE he is not there enough for you...I know you hate to say this about him.. but can we be REAL...you have been very vulnerable here .. I feel you are screaming for more attention... but hate yourself for wanting it... understand most women would feel the same !! I'd be Bi*ch to live with if I was in your shoes...yeah, your husband is blessed ! 

THE SPONGE -NEEDINESS


> High Maintenance Relationships: The Sponge
> 
> *The Anatomy of a Sponge*
> 
> ...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I want to reply to a few posts, but first I would like to talk about the conversation I just had with dh.

Okay, he is not thrilled with everything I have said here. He said he is not that comfortable with it, because he feels I have talked about private things. Well, yes. But he understands why I did it. I think if there were more openness, more honesty, more transparency, there would be fewer affairs. 

SA told me once that people talk about transparency after affairs, but it is before affairs that it is so important. She is so right.

Up until a few months ago, right around the time I started reading marriage boards, we had not done anything kinky in a long time. I had just gotten sick of asking, begging, demanding, pleading, some years back. And I remember, when he was done, this was like in October, he said to me, incredulously, "I can't believe you thought I didn't want this." Well, if I have to beg and scream and carry on to get it, why would I think he wanted it?

And he told me that this morning, that actually he does want it, but he doesn't trust himself with it. 

That was shocking, because that is not how I see dh at all. He is always so calm, so responsible. But then he started to tell me a bunch of his fantasies, and my goodness, I can see why he thought I might be scared if I knew. When I have asked him about some of these things, just as a general idea, in the past, he has always said no, he wasn't interested. But apparently he felt I would be scared if I knew his dark side.

Good grief, I have been asking the man to show that to me, and not just bits of it every few years, for so long, the better part of a decade. And just now he is being transparent with me?

And that is the thing that gets me the most: Why is he not always transparent with me? Is it something I am doing? Is it somehow my fault? I am always transparent with him. Sheesh, I am transparent here and I don't even know all of you. Do you think I want to write these things? But how do we grow if we are not transparent?

And so I need transparency from dh. As he was talking about all these things he wanted to do to me, and yes, I was a little scared, he asked me what I thought. I told him, yes, I do feel a little scared, but most of all I want you to talk to me, to share these things with me, to just be yourself and be transparent. I told him, I want to _know_ you, really _know_ you.

I always feel like there is a side to him I don't know. I don't listen very well, just always talking to him. And when we are with other people, he might tell a story or share a thought, and then I think, I didn't know that. And I know it is because I am not listening.

I really would like to thank everyone who has listened to this, and to TAM for letting me say all this. It certainly has had an effect on my dh. It really is a deepening of our relationship. I feel like it is a breakthrough, the admitting he is not transparent and that he hides his desires from me, for fear of frightening me.

It's funny how the things we hold back are often what our partner needs, really needs, to know about us.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

If this is the avenue that gives a breakthrough for you both... it is a good thing..:smthumbup:
I feel a transparent spouse NEEDS another transparent spouse...and if he has this dark side -this might play right into your KINK... so hmmm.... WIN / WIN.. 

Even the controlled Christian men of character can have a dark side...

My husband does not have a dark side.. he is dirty minded but very tame with it.... I have tried to dig deeper...I am surely the more darker between us... seems your husband is going to give you a run for your money jld !


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Oh, and he apologized for forgetting about Valentine's Day. He said it occurred to him at one point yesterday, and then it just went out of his mind.

I know, nobody can believe someone can be totally oblivious to VD. But I knew he would. Beyond a doubt. I am surprised it occurred to him at all.

It's a good thing he has a lot of other things going for him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> If this is the avenue that gives a breakthrough for you both... it is a good thing..:smthumbup:
> I feel a transparent spouse NEEDS another transparent spouse...and if he has this dark side -this might play right into your KINK... so hmmm.... WIN / WIN..
> 
> Even the controlled Christian men of character can have a dark side...
> ...


Yeah, that's going to be fun. 

He did remind me that he initiated our first kinky play 20 years ago. And I was indeed the one that was kind of overwhelmed the next day and rejected his offer for that kind of relationship. 

And he did say that he thinks we were too young then, and that it would have been taking advantage of me. Maybe that's why I rejected it? I just wasn't ready then.

He said he knew I was scared of it then, because it is just so powerful. I really do think D/s is nature's plan for human bonding.

Because he knew I was scared, he said he has always been loathe to scare me again. And he is scared of himself, of what he might be capable of.

You know, dh does not look at porn, and someone told me that is where some people get their ideas about kink. For me, it is just something I have always felt, even as a small child. And dh said that while I don't think of him as kinky, he disagrees. And he shared some of his fantasies as a much younger man with me.

There is so much we don't know if we don't talk to people. We get ideas in our heads and think we know, but we don't. And we have to make the other person feel safe enough to share their thoughts with us. 

I wish dh felt comfortable posting here. I have probably made that difficult. But it would be nice to have him speak for himself, to give his side of these things. 

Isn't that what is missing on TAM? We don't hear why the LD doesn't want to have sex with her husband; we just hear his side, and feel sorry for him. Knowing both sides would be so instructive.

Just so, so grateful that I took a chance and posted all this. And I hope the person who contacted me yesterday will consider posting, too. We have got to be strong enough to hear things that are difficult and embarrassing and are real life struggles for people. 

Judgmental posts are not helpful. We are all different and we need to try to understand one another. Nobody knows it all, and no one's life is perfect, whatever perfect means.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks, INtD, for your kind and helpful post. I think dh is pretty darn clear on what I want. He did say he needs to put more time into me, and not be so lazy. He thinks laziness is a real problem for him. I think it is because what I want is not necessarily what he wants, or thinks is necessary.

And personally, I think laziness is just selfishness. It's not bothering to do what our partner wants because it is not what we happen to want.

You know, I say I am transparent, but I have limits to what I will share, too. And that is too bad, not only because I might be able to get helpful info, but because when we hold back, nobody learns anything.

Okay, I am thinking about it now, and I wonder if he is really clear on what I want. Just because I tell him, doesn't mean he really focuses on it. Maybe I need to talk to him again. Actually, I am sure I do.

We are going somewhere next month, I think. It might be some big trip, but it might just be a road trip, too. Dh said a road trip might be good so we have lots of time to talk. And when someone is gone as much as dh is, there is a lot of catching up to do.

And INtD, thanks for your encouragement to stay on TAM. Last night I thought I just couldn't come back. Here I was, so open and honest, and I really wasn't getting that kind of heartfelt sharing back, not to the level I thought I would. I just felt so embarrassed.

But today, I thought, heck, what are we doing here? I am not here for cutesy threads. I want to learn something and grow and develop as a person. And that happens through deep, personal sharing, and openness. And so that is what I am trying to do, and I thank you for appreciating it. Sincere thanks.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Forgive my ignorance, but what does kink in this thread mean? Jld...it sounds like you feel emotionally lonely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> *You know, dh does not look at porn, and someone told me that is where some people get their ideas about kink. For me, it is just something I have always felt, even as a small child. And dh said that while I don't think of him as kinky, he disagrees. And he shared some of his fantasies as a much younger man with me*.


 Well looking at porn never made mine more Kinky...or aggressive... not even a hint... even at that, he only likes solo still women.... so if others can't understand why it doesn't bother me one bit.. I am not sure what to say..it's helped me get a bit more creative, though getting ideas & inspiration from a book, reading on sex sites, a HOT movie can do just as much. I like seeing it on screen...excuse me, I ENJOY IT.... I really don't care if anyone wants to judge that anymore.. That's just being HONEST.



> *There is so much we don't know if we don't talk to people. We get ideas in our heads and think we know, but we don't. And we have to make the other person feel safe enough to share their thoughts with us*.


 I got mad at my husband one time playing a Sex game, the card told me to ask what his fantasies were....he told me he didn't have any....OK...BORING [email protected]#$% I told him he is going to have to do better than that !...then all he had to say was...."You fullfill them all".. Ok, nice to hear but I still wanted more JUICE ......come on ....it's not that he is hiding anything...he is just very TAME.... Really I was disappointed .... I wanted something new, something deep, something dark he could share....so I could go ...."OH MY..OH baby, didn't know you had ALL that rolling around in your head"... but it is what it is... 

When we have sex.. I often tell him, when it's over..where we were.... the whole scene playing in my head.. I know he likes this...but I wish I had some of THAT coming back to me.



> *I wish dh felt comfortable posting here. I have probably made that difficult. But it would be nice to have him speak for himself, to give his side of these things*.


I think we would all love to hear his side.. and thoughts.



> *Judgmental posts are not helpful. We are all different and we need to try to understand one another. Nobody knows it all, and no one's life is perfect, whatever perfect means.*


 This is very true Jld ...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Oh, dear SA, that needy description does sound like me. Doesn't seem to bother dh, though. Because he only gives what he feels like giving, I guess, and ignores the rest.

Women reading this thread, will you tell me honestly, am I asking too much? Or do you make similar demands on your husbands? Dh told me some couples don't even talk, or only talk about superficial things, and I really want deep, meaningful conversation. Do you do try to make this happen with your husbands, too? Do you have to help him exteriorize? Does it feel like you are always trying to draw him out?

AP, I hear you and SA on the midlife point. I can't believe I am admitting something else, but here goes . . . 

I think the healthiest thing I could do, if I were just thinking of myself, would be to look for a full-time job. And upon securing it, tell dh I expect certain conditions to be met, or we are looking at a separation. Not a divorce, but more a shock time for him to see what he takes for granted, and to get his a$$ moving. 

Maybe he is going to change based on our conversation this morning, but sometimes a penalty behind all that talk is a motivator.

And I really am sorry to even say this. This is really not the kind of person I want to be. 

And I am really scared I could lose him. I think many women know how wonderful he is. You should see the way they look at him, and what they tell me about him. It is bringing tears to my eyes. I don't really feel like I have any leverage at all.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but what does kink in this thread mean? Jld...it sounds like you feel emotionally lonely.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do, Jelly. I feel all alone.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

See, he told me once, when I was upset about something, that many women would like to be in my place. And when I hear the way women talk about him, and the way they describe their own husbands, and what I see in those husbands . . . I don't even see why those women want to be married. 

I mean, sometimes women just stare at him. It's like they can't believe someone could be so nice.

So many things are just coming out of me . . . and making me cry. There are so many emotions behind our feelings. We know what we risk.

I think I am going to go and call him.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

If your H is reading this, this is his wake up call. Unless, like my H, he needs several wake up calls. Because like me, you sooth easily and then the turmoil is forgotten...until it comes up again.




jld said:


> Oh, dear SA, that needy description does sound like me. Doesn't seem to bother dh, though. Because he only gives what he feels like giving, I guess, and ignores the rest.
> 
> Women reading this thread, will you tell me honestly, am I asking too much? Or do you make similar demands on your husbands? Dh told me some couples don't even talk, or only talk about superficial things, and I really want deep, meaningful conversation. Do you do try to make this happen with your husbands, too? Do you have to help him exteriorize? Does it feel like you are always trying to draw him out?
> 
> ...


I think he knows exactly what to do because I am certain you have told him what you want and need from him. It is difficult for a non emotionally based man to cross over into being emotionally present. 

But....you also have a husband who doesn't shut down when your emotions become too much and spill over, so he CAN do this.

I think the bottom line is you need more time with him. He travels too much. He is gone for too long and too often. Skype and phone calls and emails don't take the place of being present. You feel alone because you are alone!

It might be time for him to find a way to have his career and still be home more often. It might be time for him to look around and decide if all his professional success is worth the expense of leaving you home alone so often and for so long.

These are tough decisions he has to make. Tough decisions for you. I don't see why you would need to separate in order to not be taken for granted. What you need if a few girls weekends where HE is holding down the fort without you there.


You mentioned a time when you were gone for 4 days with your oldest daughter and by the end of it he could wait to get out of the house! He was snapping at the kids and realizing just how stressful it is to be alone with a bunch of kids without a tag team for back up. And yet, you came home and he went back to work and it doesn't sound like a lot changed.

Is there another conference coming up soon? Maybe you and you oldest daughter can take a weekend together? 

My husband used to throw "other marriages" at me. Showing me other people's dysfunctions and other men's foibles as if their issues meant our issues in context were meaningless. That's minimizing! It doesn't matter what you see from other couples or other husbands, what matters is what YOU want from your marriage and from your life!

He travels all around the world in comfort and peace knowing his kids are being taken care of and all he has to do is stay in touch and bring home a paycheck. Sorry dude, women don't work that way. Actually, no one does.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> *Oh, dear SA, that needy description does sound like me. Doesn't seem to bother dh, though. Because he only gives what he feels like giving, I guess, and ignores the rest.*


 It's like I said.. someone living in you shoes could end up FEELING LIKE THIS and reacting like this- when so little is given back to them.



> *Women reading this thread, will you tell me honestly, am I asking too much? Or do you make similar demands on your husbands?*


 I've never had to make emotional or Time demands on my husband...ever.... I know it's one reason he has always fulfilled me and I've never struggled wanting out or another man ...

JLD..I would NEVER , repeat NEVER be fulfilled in a marriage like yours... I am not going to say it is because I am selfish, but I KNOW what I need in a MAN..I couldn't hang with someone gone as long as yours is..and thinking nothing of it.. It would thoroughly pi$$ me off that his job was more important over how I felt or what I needed... . I would be reduced to a lonely desperate housewife --I'd much rather us both work (and have less things, a poorer lifestyle)...with his being home to enjoy some Private time every night to REvive our connection... Skyping wouldn't cut it for me. 

The lack of transparency on TOP OF THIS....Oh my... unfathomable to someone like me...  It's not that I am the suspicious type...but why wouldn't he want to share about his adventures away -to fill me in....keep me up to date, this too is sharing your life , it creates intimacy... without this in a spouse...we are tempted to find it other places.. ..this is HUMAN NATURE --unless we are "a stone". 



> *Dh told me some couples don't even talk, or only talk about superficial things, and I really want deep, meaningful conversation. Do you do try to make this happen with your husbands, too? Do you have to help him exteriorize? Does it feel like you are always trying to draw him out*?


 I am the more bubbly social animal between us.. the one who starts our deeper conversations...but he is always willing to entertain me with his answers...even if he falls a little short on the fantasies.....

I've asked if I talk too much, ask too much... all that ...he's told me he loves our communication, wouldn't change anything... In the past I ignored him a bit ..and he enjoys my heightened attention to him these days....this daily bonds us..

This is also why I PREFER Beta males..they are naturally more sensitive -showing some emotion....I WANT THIS IN A MAN........kinda like a "Best friend" type.. if I married an aloof Alpha who didn't want to go these places with me...I've grow RESTLESS with him...if I was always trying to pull something out of him...he'd get sick of me....and I'd get sick of that constant war of trying to bridge a connection that I only dream of -but can't be attained with such a man, due to his temperament or his lust for his job/ hobbies, whatever. 



> *AP, I hear you and SA on the midlife point. I can't believe I am admitting something else, but here goes . . .
> 
> I think the healthiest thing I could do, if I were just thinking of myself, would be to look for a full-time job. And upon securing it, tell dh I expect certain conditions to be met, or we are looking at a separation. Not a divorce, but more a shock time for him to see what he takes for granted, and to get his a$$ moving.*


 He is reading all of this right... it won't be a shock.... Can you swing this with the kids ? And with the demands of your son having cancer, his treatments, follow up... I thought you home schooled? 



> *And I am really scared I could lose him. I think many women know how wonderful he is. You should see the way they look at him, and what they tell me about him. It is bringing tears to my eyes. I don't really feel like I have any leverage at all*.


 What other people think is not important here at all.. People think ALPHA men are the BOMB ...strong , mysterious, women falling all over them.. none of that means anything to me... just like with you.. it's what YOU NEED... not women looking from the outside, they don't live in your house... and have there husbands away 20 days out of the month, while you are left alone... who are these women saying this anyway.....and I have to wonder if it is because how highly you have spoke of him in their presence..while not visiting the true struggles you are facing in this thread?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

No, these are real life people, SA. I cannot tell you how many times women have come to me and told me they cannot believe what a great guy dh is, how kind, how helpful, how respectful, etc. etc. All around the world. People sing his praises everywhere.

Okay, I am going to pretend it is just my friends and I talking here . . . When we were about 3 months into the relationship, I told my sister I was thinking about breaking it off, that I just wasn't sure dh was the guy for me. She told me I would be crazy to do that. So between that and dh making some efforts (I think he wrote me a love letter and took me to CA on a business trip), I thought, okay, I'll stay. And then I started working (the school year started and I was teaching) and everything settled down.

I feel guilty to say this, but I was a lot easier to deal with before I came to TAM. I used to do fine (okay, more or less) when dh would be away. Honestly, I think we appreciated each other more when he moved away a year and a half ago than when we were living together. He hates when I say that, that he "moved out." His new job is 6 hours away, where we are now, visiting dd18, who goes to college here and shares an apartment with her dad.

Now when he sees me, I feel like he pays some attention. I think the problem with dh is that he has me in a box, and sometimes he takes me out to play with me. But I am in the box when he doesn't feel like it. And when you are the dependent person, you are just so happy to be taken out of the box.

If I would get busier, just get off TAM and stop thinking about these feelings, I could just suppress them, you know? TAM makes me think and feel and just emote like crazy. It's like I am constantly being emotionally stimulated.

So I was sitting on the floor, crying like crazy after that last post, and my daughter walks in. We actually had a big talk about kink last night, and I told her all about her dad's and my history with it, and why that is why I have been upset and snappy and crying and distant.

So anyway, she came in to talk to me, and told me that her dad loves me very much, and while she does think he takes me for granted, she really doesn't think he would leave me for someone else. She told me the reason I was crying is that I love him very much. That made me feel better.

She also said he would not do any more for another woman than he does for me, that he would only give so much. But that is pretty typical for men, isn't it? 

And that is why so many women are so impressed with dh, I think. He really is a giver, at least compared to other men. I mean, I have just had so many women make those kinds of comments to me, and how spoiled I am by him. 

AP, you made the comment once that it is normal for us to always want more, always seek a deeper connection with our husbands, is that right?

So I called dh, and he didn't want to talk to me because I guess it is expensive? And he said wait 20 minutes and he would go back to the hotel and call me from the computer. I think he has got to be feeling like having me here is just a major pita. I used to be so easy to deal with.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I am also the type who thinks it is much better to put it all out there on the table and my wife is closed and more afraid to talk about her feelings.

I do think that you are right jld that if all couples would learn to do this we would have a much lower divorce rate. 

I was not implying that your guy was not good just that always in your posts you build him up higher than maybe he actually is. 

"He told me he felt he didn't have to do anything for me, that I was pretty much trapped. And so if he didn't feel like it, why bother?"

In defense of guys, I have to say that sometimes we just are being logical. The cool truth is that *all people* tend to not go out of their way unless they see a need or benefit. He could have simply been accounting for why he did not act and not trying to justify his inaction as being correct behavior.

Sounds like an overall productive outcome and will increase your bond.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

jld said:


> Women reading this thread, will you tell me honestly, am I asking too much? Or do you make similar demands on your husbands? Dh told me some couples don't even talk, or only talk about superficial things, and I really want deep, meaningful conversation. Do you do try to make this happen with your husbands, too? Do you have to help him exteriorize? Does it feel like you are always trying to draw him out?


jld, I'm not hiding from your thread. I don't want to turn it to be about me and how this kink plays out in my life--(because, of course, you already know. ) But I do think many readers of this thread are confused, and not knowing what sort of kink you are talking about. Even to name it--24/7 D/s lifestyle--is only the tip of the iceberg, because there are as many ways to live that lifestyle as there are couples in it. In a monogamous marriage, tt is a negotiation of power between a husband and a wife. Yes, a NEGOTIATION--and that means BOTH sides feel that their needs are being met. It is deeply consensual, and one spouse cannot carry the entire weight of it. 

But you know I've learned how to "demand" things of my husband, and that he has given them to me in more ways that I ever believed could be possible. But he also "demands" things of me so that he can fulfill his role. So no, I don't not think you are asking too much, anymore than partners who come here seeking help for sex-starved marriages are asking too much. It takes hard work from TWO people for this sort of kink to work. You are simply at a point where you need your husband to step up. If he simply says, "no", then that is where your problem lies. He is unwilling to negotiate, and the dynamic breaks down because you can no longer carry it. 

But will you get what you want and what you need? I think that remains to be seen. For me, getting what I wanted and what I needed meant bringing transparency and really getting to know not only one another, but ourselves. We both already knew the consequences of not following through on filling one another's needs--we had lived it for more than ten years, and it sucked. 

You and your husband already have the transparency, the clear communication, and the ability to know exactly what you want. What you don't have is an understanding of consequences of unmet needs. You've lived this far in your marriage accepting that things had to be as they are . . . and now that seems to be changing. AND THAT IS FINE. We change as we age and as our circumstances evolve; thus your needs change and evolve. 




jld said:


> I think the healthiest thing I could do, if I were just thinking of myself, would be to look for a full-time job. And upon securing it, tell dh I expect certain conditions to be met, or we are looking at a separation. Not a divorce, but more a shock time for him to see what he takes for granted, and to get his a$$ moving.


This is called a consequence. It's not you being spiteful, or doing something to lash out and "punish" your husband for not giving you what you need. It is taking responsibility for your own happiness, your own health and sanity. It's no different than one of the main ideas behind MMSLP or NNMNG--take a look at what control YOU have over your own happiness, and exert that control. You don't have to manipulate your husband; I don't think that fits at all into your marriage. But sometimes it takes more than words to communicate, sometimes it takes more than words to be transparent. 



jld said:


> Maybe he is going to change based on our conversation this morning, but sometimes a penalty behind all that talk is a motivator.
> 
> And I really am sorry to even say this. This is really not the kind of person I want to be.


Again, taking care of yourself as much as you can is not the same as handing out a penalty. Look at your motivation here: you do not want to hurt him, you are not trying to teach him a lesson, you are trying to communicate to him the depth of your need on this issue. Words are not working. 



jld said:


> And I am really scared I could lose him. I think many women know how wonderful he is. You should see the way they look at him, and what they tell me about him. It is bringing tears to my eyes. I don't really feel like I have any leverage at all.


Other women do not have to live with him. What they see on the surface is not the whole story. You know the whole story; don't let what the world sees in your husband dictate how you should feel about your marriage. As SA said, it's only how YOU feel about him that is important.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

From a male perspective. So much hinting so little concrete info. So let piggish me ask since I am as subtle as a ten megaton nuclear warhead:

I see lots of hinting: OUT WITH IT. What acts are you talking about/ scared of? Too many people hint around the edges. 

Specify.

DEFINE kink.
one to eight word descriptions are fine. Its not a porn novel with a lick by lick description.
"Pin me down and take me caveman style" 
"spank me till I am red azzed but not bruising" 
"Role play UPS guy making an extra special delivery"
Might take a typical husband a bit to get used to the above but I would rather imagine they wont have a problem.
(Make sure you define a safe word before you go down any of these paths and DONT make your safe word "No" or "Stop" I recommend the safe word is "safe word" There is almost zero chance of missing or mistaking it then.
OTOH
"Let me handcuff him and peg him"
"Whip me till I welt"
"trade me around other dom males"
Probably wont go over well. Never could understand the true extreme stuff. 

Then again HOW MANY people do the extreme stuff? <--- anyone have an answer of that one?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

The other thing, girlfriends, is that about a year and a half ago, I decided I wasn't going to complain about dh anymore. I was just going to think about some positive thing every time a negative came up.

It really did help. There are a lot of positives. 

I have an idea how unhealthy I sound. And I really don't think I should give anyone advice anymore. But I can't see myself in any other kind of relationship. 

SA, it would be great if dh would come on here and give his side. Do you see how emotive I am? How ridiculously emotive? Where is the emotional stability here? Do you see why I cling to him? Mr. Steady, Mr. Calm? My emotions are all over the place.

AP, once he gets back to the hotel, I will ask him to read the thread. Obviously our issues go way beyond kink. And I think we could work them out with more time together, less selfishness from him, and more transparency from him. He will have to say what he needs more of from me. Patience, obviously.

I am really not in a position to get a job, SA. The kids are homeschooled and really are happy. AP is right, that I just need dh to be more attentive (dd18 mentioned earlier that that is a problem with her dad, as he doesn't require much attention himself, and so he doesn't realize other people need it). And if he is willing to read this thread, and considering what he told me this morning, he could try to be more attentive.

And dd18 did tell me that even if he were home more, he would not be any more attentive. There is just a limit to it. And I think I know it, and feel it is better if he just works like crazy, because he likes it, and it pays really well.

What a depressing thread, huh?

Sometimes I feel like I am in an arranged marriage, and I am just trying to do as good a job as I can. I can't change being emotional. 

But sometimes I wonder if I were with someone else, maybe I wouldn't get so upset. Or maybe we would both get upset, and it would feel more equal, and so then each would feel obliged to work at it, instead of it feeling like it is all just the character defect of one side.

This is a new thought for me, that maybe dh's behavior is part of why I am as emotive as I am. I assume everything is my fault, because he has such a great character, you know. And the emotional one is always so badly seen. Look at the things TAG has said about me.

It seems like whoever you are married to, you have to compromise and accept the other person. But some of us just can't. We want to go deeper and deeper and get more and more connected. We want to truly be one with that person, to give all of ourselves to them. And we want them to give themselves to us.

And he still is not calling.

AP, thanks for saying that your dh throws other people's marriages at you, too. Basically he is just telling you to be grateful, right? Yeah, I hear you. And it is not that we don't know to be grateful, and that we are not, but like you said, it is just normal to always want more.

And how about this one? Shouldn't they be grateful that we keep trying? That we do cry because we love them and want to be with them? How about that? 

And to their credit, I think it means they are doing something right, that we just want to be with them, and don't really ever want to be away from them.

Okay, stupid question: Do you think the problem really is that he is gone so much? I do seem to be having more breakdowns lately. It's like the more I read here, the more I want a closer connection, and the more frustrated I feel that I cannot have it, sometimes just because he is not available (time differences, poor telecommunications). Could it be just as simple as we need more time together, really just that?

I feel like I should be able to handle anything, but obviously I can't.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Your husband is attracted to other women, too. All men are. In my opinion, if he claims that he isn't he is either lying or gay.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

jld, I think one of the things people are struggling with is WHAT is that you want your husband to do that he will not?

Some people are probably jumping to the conclusion that these are sexual acts (because this is the SIM section), while others see that you are asking for emotional needs to be met that don't seem kinky AT ALL. Sometimes I read what you express as your "kink-needs," and I see those things as elements necessary to ANY healthy marriage--whether it be "vanilla" or "alternative" or somewhere in between.

Are you comfortable sharing what the specific needs are? 

I actually see the sexual side of D/s as easier to share, because I think that erotic dom/sub play is fairly common in the bedroom--it's when that dynamic moves to 24/7 that people really raise an eyebrow, in my experience. But heavy D/s eroticism it is not a part of all D/s marriages, so you might want to clear things up a bit if you don't want the good readers of TAM to be jumping to wild conclusions. 

Or maybe you do. :scratchhead:


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## cavenger (Aug 26, 2012)

This thread is filled with so many long posts... I am really having a hard time reading them all.... But I to would like jld to post exactly what she wants from her husband that he is not giving her.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

jld said:


> *Obviously our issues go way beyond kink.* And I think we could work them out with more time together, *less selfishness from him, and more transparency from him. * He will have to say what he needs more of from me. Patience, obviously.
> 
> that is a problem with her dad, as he doesn't require much attention himself, *and so he doesn't realize other people need it). *
> 
> ...


jld, you are a prolific writer, and you spill all emotion into what you say. But there are always the words and phrases that stand out to me, and have developed as a theme (see what I quoted above for some examples.) More and more I think that, before you can develop the kink, you need to cultivate a healthy dynamic in which you each TRUST one another to respond to expressed needs. That trust is absolutely foundational to any healthy marriage, but a healthy D/s marriage *CANNOT* exist without it. 



jld said:


> Okay, stupid question: Do you think the problem really is that he is gone so much? I do seem to be having more breakdowns lately. It's like the more I read here, the more I want a closer connection, and the more frustrated I feel that I cannot have it, sometimes just because he is not available (time differences, poor telecommunications). Could it be just as simple as we need more time together, really just that?
> 
> I feel like I should be able to handle anything, but obviously I can't.


No one can "handle anything." We all have our physical and emotional limits--you and your husband included. It's hard work to explore those limits; even harder work once you know what they are and have to decide whether or if you can accept them.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I admit to not having read through the entire thread and am posting on the fly but what I am reading is this:

I'm not sure if it's necessarily about "kink" (like BDSM), but it seems like you are feeling sad/lonely in your marriage. Your husband travels a lot for work and you homeschool your children (right)? so 1. you probably don't get a lot of alone time by yourself and 2. you aren't getting a lot of alone time with your husband (sans children).

You guys really should find the time to spend moments together alone. Him saying youc an't have a babysitter so just the two fo you can go out isn't conducive to spending quality/adult time together. I think every couple needs alone time/date nights/etc. 

Also the kink thing I don't really understand. But if what you mean by kink is feeling attracted to other men, then you are normal. It's strange to feel attraction to other people. You're human. And you're alive (presumably, hehe) unless you're a vampire and even vampires feel attraction to (the undead are so romantic, but I digress). Its not realistic to think you will never find another man attractive so I do not think you should feel bad about that. Feeling it is one thing, acting on it and engaging in it is quite another. Your husband surely feels attracted to other women as well. But you just have to put your marriage first.

It's good that he's willing to listen to you about what you are saying here. Acknowledgement is key. Actions are the cement. So you guys should talk openly with how you feel. 

You said you have made him your entire life/or rather, that pleasing him is your entire life and honestly I think that is a bit much. It's fine to prioritize your marriage, but not to the point where you feel you have zero pleasures in anything else (hobbies, children, exercise, meeting with friends, etc).

Like you, I am attracted to men who are the opposite of clingy and maybe even have an air of distance about them and that is because I am a really independent woman and I like a man who has his own things going for him. Nothing turns me off more than a stage 5-clinger with zero interests of his own and who is around all the time. I can't deal with that. I think that women who are attracted to these types of men (you and I) need to find a balance between our independence and theirs in order for a relationship to have a good balance. It sounds like you need to get some interests of your own. And also, your husband should put your concerns at the top of his list and listen to you because now is the time to listen up before you feel sad/resentful, etc.

FaithfulWife eluded to these types of circumstances being ripe for an EA and whatnot and I have to agree.

When a partner has a concern, the other should listen and they should work together to resolve it before it turns into a thunderstorm of chaos.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> From a male perspective. So much hinting so little concrete info. So let piggish me ask since I am as subtle as a ten megaton nuclear warhead:
> 
> I see lots of hinting: OUT WITH IT. What acts are you talking about/ scared of? Too many people hint around the edges.
> 
> ...


JLD has framed her needs within the context of her kink, but as GettingIt has pointed out her emotional needs are fairly straight forward for what any wife would need from her husband.

If JLD didn't have this kink, she would still be confused, conflicted, isolated and feeling emotionally abandoned because her husband travels so much and is gone 20 out of 30 days. I think even the men here can see how much of a strain that would put on any wife, let alone a wife who home schools and has a child with a history of cancer!

So yes, JLD, I think his travel schedule is cause a lot of problems.

You also mentioned that lately you've been falling apart more often. Because you have stopped repressing your needs and have given yourself some priority. Once you come to understand you are allowed to have needs, know what they are, give voice to them, they don't go away. 

You husband adores you JLD, I'm sure he is searching for a way to meet all of your needs right now. Personally, I'd recommend a job that requires less travel as the surest way.

There is a reason why military marriages fail at such a higher rate then other marriages. If the couple spend too much time apart, the marriage falls apart.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I feel guilty to say this, but I was a lot easier to deal with before I came to TAM. I used to do fine (okay, more or less) when dh would be away. Honestly,* I think we appreciated each other more when he moved away a year and a half ago than when we were living together. He hates when I say that, that he "moved out." *His new job is 6 hours away, where we are now, visiting dd18, who goes to college here and shares an apartment with her dad.


 There was a lady at my Mops group, her husband was in the army, I felt so bad for her, only home a month in that year.. I was thinking I'd go Freaking MAD if I was her.. seen her not long ago-she did a Jewelry party.... I brought that up...how she must be so happy he is Home full time now....all that distance must have killed her... she says "NO, it was better when he was away"... her way of saying...they don't really get along well... and she didn't mind it.

When your husband WAS HOME jld.......what was the dynamics like......you say you feel you both appreciated each other *more* being separated... 



> *Now when he sees me, I feel like he pays some attention. I think the problem with dh is that he has me in a box, and sometimes he takes me out to play with me. But I am in the box when he doesn't feel like it. And when you are the dependent person, you are just so happy to be taken out of the box*.


 Makes me think of that song  Man In The Box  this description is over the top - feeling neglected.... put on a shelf.. you need MORE in your life to feel good about yourself....you have said you struggled with self esteem for 20 yrs...between your home life, then moving into this set up.. where you have just been pretty much TOLD how things would run, you wasn't given any choice....you just WENT ALONG every step of the way.... 



> * If I would get busier, just get off TAM and stop thinking about these feelings, I could just suppress them, you know? TAM makes me think and feel and just emote like crazy. It's like I am constantly being emotionally stimulated*.


 These are very hard truths...it seems you have been suppressing for years... 



> So anyway, she came in to talk to me, and told me that her dad loves me very much, and while she does think he takes me for granted, she really doesn't think he would leave me for someone else. She told me the reason I was crying is that I love him very much. That made me feel better.
> 
> She also said he would not do any more for another woman than he does for me, that he would only give so much. But that is pretty typical for men, isn't it?


 It seems you married him knowing HOW he was.. and you have become accustomed to this way of life early on... because you have such a bad taste in your mouth OF OTHER men, you justified you are living a better life.. it is one of comparisons , though not really what would have brought you happiness and fulfillment..

I think it's human nature to compare though. We must weight the pros and cons, but at the expense of our own happiness.. I don't know.



> *Anon Pink said*: You also mentioned that lately you've been falling apart more often. *Because you have stopped repressing your needs and have given yourself some priority. Once you come to understand you are allowed to have needs, know what they are, give voice to them, they don't go away*.


 this IS exactly what is happening.. you was sheltered in that box on the shelf...



> *You husband adores you JLD, I'm sure he is searching for a way to meet all of your needs right now. Personally, I'd recommend a job that requires less travel as the surest way.
> 
> There is a reason why military marriages fail at such a higher rate then other marriages. If the couple spend too much time apart, the marriage falls apart.*


 I do so hope he will HEAR your cries and work towards meeting you half way...


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> You also mentioned that lately you've been falling apart more often. Because you have stopped repressing your needs and have given yourself some priority. *Once you come to understand you are allowed to have needs, know what they are, give voice to them, they don't go away. *


:iagree:

And if this is what you are using to define your kink . . . then we are all but as kinky as you are!

It's not kinky to need attention from your spouse, and to not be able to thrive without it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GettingIt said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And if this is what you are using to define your kink . . . then we are all but as kinky as you are!
> 
> *It's not kinky to need attention from your spouse, and to not be able to thrive without it*.


Her KINK is definitely *darker* but that is up to her to share... as I said in a previous post, if *I* wanted this particular Kink, I'd have to ditch my husband...Oh Goodness..he'd NEVER be able to do it [email protected]#

But time / attention, that is EASY for him, it flows... I can't speak for jld, this is her call.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

jld said:


> I am really not in a position to get a job, SA. The kids are homeschooled and really are happy. AP is right, that I just need dh to be more attentive (dd18 mentioned earlier that that is a problem with her dad, as he doesn't require much attention himself, and so he doesn't realize other people need it). And if he is willing to read this thread, and considering what he told me this morning, he could try to be more attentive.
> 
> And dd18 did tell me that even if he were home more, he would not be any more attentive. There is just a limit to it. And I think I know it, and feel it is better if he just works like crazy, because he likes it, and it pays really well.
> 
> ...


Dear lord, the writing is right there on the wall! Some of the things I will say here won't be popular, but you need to at least hear a different perspective. 

*Time to stop the homeschooling.* Read your above statements again. Your whole thread is just *SCREAMING OUT *as someone in a mess because you are chained to the house and entirely dependent on your husband and children alone for your emotional needs. Time to get out and do something different, like get a job. Or go out with friends. *Do you have close friends?* When was the last time you had a girl's night out? Or went out with friends at all?

How will you feel when your kids have all grown up and moved out, and you are alone in the house with just your husband (and maybe a dog) for emotional support?

I'm glad that your kids are brilliant, but guess what? My two daughters are doing brilliantly in high school, one is at the very top of her class, and they weren't homeschooled. Moreover, you learn socialization in school that you can't learn at home. *And no, I'm not trying to derail this into a debate about homeschooling, I do have a point here*: Were either you or your husband homeschooled? Yes some of that school socialization seems bad at first (eg bullying) but learning how to deal with things like bullying is an important skill later in life - *that way you don't end up as a spouse who finds it difficult to communicate with his/her partner*! 

As for kink, you still haven't really told us what it was. I'm assuming it's probably bondage and/or spanking. Some people just think that's "wrong" in any context (either from religion, or feminist college classes, or whatever), and it would take a lot of deprogramming to get him to think otherwise.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Hey - the voyeur in me wants to know what this particular kink is also.

But the truth is that it really does not matter what it is... it could be clown sex, it could be BDSM... Us knowing and applying our own filter to whether it is doable or not really does not matter.

The truth is that she feels like she needs it, and actually her husband is not averse to it - he is just not that interested in meeting her need, mostly because he does not see how it will affect him.

He sounds like a pretty decent man, but he also seems to be a little self absorbed... That is my opinion, and I am not judging him, but I am saying that maybe he needs to be a little more concerned about making her happy. I think it is human nature to just go along with the status quo... it is the difference between going down hill vs going up hill. It takes a real man to want to stir things up and add a little spice to the relationship, especially when he is not necessarily getting anything for himself out of it - it takes a real man to see and do what his wife desires of him.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

jld said:


> See, there aren't really any consequences for him. It's always just whatever he feels like doing. What power do I have? I can't leave him. I don't want to leave him.
> 
> I need him, and we both know it.
> 
> ...





jld said:


> Good grief, it is a way to get some affection and attention. Do you notice me, dh?
> 
> But it's like he's so perfect, I can't relate.
> 
> ...


I've highlighted the things that stood out for me in your posts. From my POV, it seems that 1) it's time to take your H off the pedestal, no one likes being seen as a Saint, that's too much pressure. 2) Your H knows you won't leave, therefore he sees no incentive to keep you satisfied. If my H said something to me like that, I would know that our marriage was over, that he saw no reason to WANT to keep me satisfied, let alone the need to do so. 

I think you two have a very co-dependent relationship, it's as if you get your very validation as a person from your H, that you're so wrapped up in keeping him happy, you forgot about yourself. Your contribution to your household as a SAHM is just as important as your H's job as the breadwinner. You two are partners, BOTH of your needs should be met equally, there is absolutely NO reason why your H's needs should supersede your own. It's time for JLD to get all of her needs met in her marriage & it's time to demand those needs are met.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Okay, I am back in my adult state now. I was regressing a lot, and that's what you see on this thread. Sometimes jld is five years old, and Daddy is gone, and it's very scary. And she is looking for him, needing him, but he is not there. That's the crux of it, weighlifter, if you must know.

We don't have a normal husband/wife relationship. Dh really is the dad I always wanted, and that is why you hear the hero worship, the childlike adoration, in my posts. I had a terrible relationship with my dad growing up, and was just so scared of him. When I met dh, and then when we got together, yes he was and is a mate, but he is also a father. He usually does care for me, but sometimes he gets lax, or I am not clear, and **** happens. 

We had a very healing conversation just now, and he told me he needs to take better charge of me, better care of me, so that I feel safe.

Sometimes I get scared. Two weeks ago I was probably driving my social group crazy because I was breaking down there, too. I was afraid we didn't have a normal sex life, at least according to what I was reading here on SIM. I really was wondering if we were doing it "wrong". Ridiculous, huh? 

But I was just so scared, and dh was in India and having lots of meetings and telecommunications issues, and sometimes we could only talk for a few minutes a day. And he was irritated with me for posting about our sex life on our social group, and he told me at one point he was feeling angry with me. And that really scared me. And I wanted to hide in the closet. The five year old coming out, you know?

And when he would talk with me, he would calm me down. Dh has that effect on me, that therapeutic effect. And I would be okay for a little while. And the folks on the social group were very kind and patient, not judgmental at all. When you just accept a person for who they are, you really help them calm down.

And then dh came home, and I had a whole list of demands I wanted to make, and all he did was step into the car, and all my frustration melted away. Again, he has that effect on me. 

But he is not always here. And sometimes I get insecure, and can't always talk to him, and then I get a little crazy. That very scared five year old comes out. And you hear that in my posts.

It's not a bad thing to have a very present Inner Child. All my emotion comes from there. I really am a very compassionate, caring person. I try to put love in my posts here, and into my family and friends. I genuinely care about people. And that all comes from that Inner Little Girl.

But she gets scared. And one of the things she gets scared of is when she feels attracted to men besides her daddy. 

Because one time, a very long time ago, she was attracted to a man she should not have been. And she did things with that man that she should not have done. He was her teacher when she was in college. And his wife and children lived in a different city. And after a year he told her he was done with her, that he had found another woman his own age. And she just didn't care about life after that.

But a few weeks later, a Frenchman, a wonderful, kind, funny, really smart Frenchman told her he loved her. And she couldn't believe it. 

And so right away she sat down with him and told him why he could not possibly love her, about that man she had had the affair with, how he was married and how she hated herself for betraying her values like that. She just couldn't believe she had done something so bad. And how hard it had been to try to stop it, and how she couldn't, until he stopped it.

And while she was at it, she told this nice man about the incest in her family and how ashamed she was of how unhealthy her family was, but how she couldn't get out, because she was so dependent on them.

And he listened to all these things and told her he loved her anyway, and wanted to be with her. He didn't blame her for anything, and wanted to give her a good life.

And a few days later, he told her he wanted their children breastfed and homeschooled, and she realized they were going to get married. 

And she couldn't believe how different her life was with him, how peaceful and safe. And two months later, she started to call him Daddy, and has ever since.

That is kink to me, and you will find similar stories on Fetlife, if you ever go there. There are many different kinds of kink, and I am not sure I could give you a definition, but I bet someone else could. There are people here who know all kinds of things about alternative sexuality.

We run into problems when dh is not available to me, or doesn't give me the time and attention I need. 

I've already told you so much, weightlifter, do I have to tell you more?

In our conversation just now, dh told me he needs to be more involved, that when he does not provide the security and stability I need, things like this thread happen. I need his guidance, and I flounder without it. Two weeks ago it happened in our social group, and now it is happening here.

I thought something like this should go in SIM, but maybe I am wrong. Sorry about that.

A million thanks, AP, you have been so kind. GI, SA, thanks so much, too. I've kind of been flipping back and forth between the child and grown up state today. But I've had a really good, long talk with dh over FaceTime, and things just feel better.

I was not made to run my life all by myself. I need help, and dh provides it. When he provides it. I think it is pretty clear to him that I need much more consistent attention. AP especially got that through to him. The thread in general got his attention.

GI, do you really think I could have put this in the general discussion? Doesn't it seem too strange? Or does TAM need an alternative sexuality subforum?

Like I said in my first post, if there is anything I have learned here, it is that you have to accept yourself just the way you are. I can gripe and moan and doubt everything I have done for the last 20 years, but dh just accepts me the way I am. He doesn't try to change me. But again, I need more consistent attention, or else I fall apart, like I did yesterday and today.

I guess I should not have posted this thread. Apparently the whole thread is really heavy. To me, it is just honest feelings. I thought some people could relate.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

jld said:


> I thought some people could relate.


I think it is normal - now that you have bared your soul - to pendulum back the other way and think that you have gone too far...

Don't feel bad about this. This thread - whether I can relate to it myself or not - has been very interesting and informative.

We are all unique, and very many of us have highly individualized relationships with our SO's. We have our own little peculiarities, our own special understandings.

Mostly just try to remember that this is an anonymous thread.... none of us could pick any of the other posters out of a line up. I like your thoughts about transparency. It speaks to me because I can naturally be very guarded.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Her KINK is definitely *darker* but that is up to her to share... as I said in a previous post, if *I* wanted this particular Kink, I'd have to ditch my husband...Oh Goodness..he'd NEVER be able to do it [email protected]#


I am still totally lost here.

What is the kink? Is it BDSM or something? Or just wanting attention from her husband?

:scratchhead:


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

It is in her last post.... He is her daddy....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

jld said:


> But she gets scared. And one of the things she gets scared of is when she feels attracted to men *besides her daddy. *
> 
> Because one time, a very long time ago, she was attracted to a man she should not have been. And she did things with that man that she should not have done. He was her teacher when she was in college. And his wife and children lived in a different city. And after a year he told her he was done with her, that he had found another woman his own age. And she just didn't care about life after that.
> 
> ...


Ok, I am officially lost yet somewhat ... undertanding. Lost ecause you still haven't said exactly whta IT is but I am gathering from your posts that you may have an incest fantay with your "daddy" who is actually your husband?

Is that right? 

Is it a Dom/Sub/incest fantasy? :scratchhead::scratchhead:

Is this a sexual thing that you need to have play out? I am just confused.

Re: the professor--the past is dead and gone. You need to forgive yourself for anything that happened in the past and learn to focus on the present, here and now. That was a long time ago and life is in a different place now.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> I think it is normal - now that you have bared your soul - to pendulum back the other way and think that you have gone too far...
> 
> Don't feel bad about this. This thread - whether I can relate to it myself or not - has been very interesting and informative.
> 
> ...


You are very kind, Jim, and your post was exactly what I needed to read. Thanks for your sensitivity.

I am not going to be talking any more about my other kinks. I think I have shared enough. And the point of the thread, to get dh to see that I need his attention, very consistently, has worked. We had an excellent conversation an hour ago, and I just feel calm and stable.

About being guarded . . . I was just looking at a site that says that Radical Transparency is necessary for a marriage. I totally believe that. I just don't hide from dh. I can't. He told me that right away when we were together, that he knew I could not lie to him.

I hope you have radical transparency in your marriage, Jim.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sparkyjim said:


> It is in her last post.... He is her daddy....


Yeah but I don't think literal. I think she calls him daddy and has a daddy fantasy...? But there was some incest in her own family.

And i'm not sure if the attention JLD is seeking is from just emotional connectivity or sexual fantasy...?

Jld, sorry but I am still kinda lost here.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Here's an article by a DD/lg couple...to give you guys an idea...this is not specifically about jld, just a similar couple....

DD/lg in Public » Fearless Press

Although I think this couple is polyamorous...

And read more of that author's stories...click his name, it will go to his profile with other ones.

The couple in the story live a childless, fully "out" DD/lg relationship. All the "cutesy" stuff is this particular woman's interests, not necessarily jld's. So please don't confuse the flavor of the article as if all DD/lg relationships are the same.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

OMG, jld, I was thinking that you wanted some light bondage. Have you seen a counselor about your childhood experience with your father? I think this issue is beyond the bounds of an online forum.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

jld said:


> We don't have a normal husband/wife relationship. Dh really is the dad I always wanted, and that is why you hear the hero worship, the childlike adoration, in my posts. I had a terrible relationship with my dad growing up, and was just so scared of him. When I met dh, and then when we got together, yes he was and is a mate, but he is also a father. He usually does care for me, but sometimes he gets lax, or I am not clear, and **** happens.
> 
> *We had a very healing conversation just now, and he told me he needs to take better charge of me, better care of me, so that I feel safe.*


jld, you might not have a typical "husband/wife" dynamic, but that doesn't change the fact that the two of you can, and do, interact in ways conducive to a healthy marriage. The part I bolded above is the important stuff--not the part about him being daddy to you. 

People will get distracted by the "prurient" details of an alternative or kink-based marriage, but that is to be expected, I'm afraid. Much of it is just plain curiosity. In a perfect world, you would be able to come to an anonymous internet forum, lay it all out, and get advice that focuses on your marriage, and not on the kink. The kink of course explains much about why you need what you need, but it doesn't change the fact that you are expressing your needs to your h and still not getting them met. 

Alternative lifestyle marriages, IMO, are really not that different, at the end of the day, as "vanilla" marriages. They can be every bit as healthy, and they can be every bit as destructive. Do you remember when I sent you the link to the article "10 Principles for Healthy 24/7 D/s?" I'll copy numbers 3 and 4 below, because I think they bear out what I am trying to say:

3. Clean motivation.

You are choosing from a place of strength. You do not need this, you just want it a lot. In other words, you’re not doing D/s because you’re dependent on a D/s dynamic to be able to function in life. You are not making up for dysfunction, and if you should discover dysfunction along the way, you have a…

4. Commitment to work on your own ****.

Intense power relationships will bring you face to face with whatever issues you need to work on; your ability to sustain your D/s relationship depends on your willingness to deal with them, and your partner’s willingness, and your mutual willingness to deal with theirs. Independently of the relationship you’re in now, if applicable, your progress in D/s and the success of future relationships also depends on your willingness to deal with your own ****—being eternally single or simply repeating the patterns you had trouble with in the last relationship will not help. Hint: if the same thing keeps going wrong in every relationship, you don’t just need to find the right person; you need to change yourself.

At the same time as you both need to commit to working on your ****, you also need to find a way to balance this with a commitment to taking each other as you are. While you can work on specific things, and while major change does take place sometimes, you cannot fundamentally change a person into something they are not, and you certainly can’t expect major change to happen quickly or exactly as you’d like it to. So don’t enter 24/7 if your happiness is going to be dependent on a radical or immediate personality shift on the others’ part.

What I think it boils down to is making sure you are not using kink as a crutch. *If you have issues you need to work on, work on them instead of relying on the kink to sooth them. * I am not saying you are not well aware of and working on your "sh!t;" I point this out because I think many readers on TAM (and other relationship forums that, unlike fetlife, are not geared toward alternative lifestyle marriages) might see the kink as unhealthy and never get past that judgment to really look at why you feel your needs are not being met. Certainly there are many open minded and kink-minded posters on TAM, but they might not be the loudest contingent. 



jld said:


> We run into problems when dh is not available to me, or doesn't give me the time and attention I need.


This is a valid concern; you have identified it, expressed it to your husband, and he has agreed to work on it. THAT IS HEALTHY!! THAT IS GOOD!



jld said:


> GI, do you really think I could have put this in the general discussion? Doesn't it seem too strange? Or does TAM need an alternative sexuality subforum?


I don't know where this thread would fit best, to tell you the truth. It's not about sex so much, but it IS about getting your spouse to understand your needs and THAT is a HUGE theme of SIM. 

As for a alternative sexuality subforum . . . hmmmm. I think it could be useful to try and draw like-minded people together, but as I pointed out, the same principles of healthy marriage apply to both vanilla and kink-based marriages alike. Sometimes I do wish I could figure out if there were other posters in the same type of marriage that I am in just so I could go to "short hand" in talking about it. I don't mind answering people's questions, but I don't have time to combat misconceptions and judgment. Not that those things bother me (everyone is entitled to their opinion), but they do tend to start digressions that detract from the original discussion. 



jld said:


> Like I said in my first post, if there is anything I have learned here, it is that you have to accept yourself just the way you are. I can gripe and moan and doubt everything I have done for the last 20 years, but dh just accepts me the way I am. He doesn't try to change me. But again, I need more consistent attention, or else I fall apart, like I did yesterday and today.


This is short, sweet, and succinct. You can have this in your marriage with communication and commitment from you both. 



jld said:


> I guess I should not have posted this thread. Apparently the whole thread is really heavy. To me, it is just honest feelings. I thought some people could relate.


jld, you are fine. You've done everyone who has read this a solid. Sometimes we need our minds blown to be reminded that the world is a very big and wondrous place.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

skype said:


> OMG, jld, I was thinking that you wanted some light bondage. Have you seen a counselor about your childhood experience with your father? I think this issue is beyond the bounds of an online forum.


:lol: It's just a kink. Lots of people have this kink, but it's further in the closet than BDSM is or even used to be. I think it's cute!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I was kind of wondering when I was reading your earlier posts. Then you mentioned incest. Do you mean your father had sex with you?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I am curious since I've never heard of this role play before but do you pretend to be his daughter in front of your children? I ask because I wonder the effect it would have on children watching their parents act as father/daughter.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> :lol: It's just a kink. Lots of people have this kink, but it's further in the closet than BDSM is or even used to be. I think it's cute!


What is remotely cute about incest?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> I am curious since I've never heard of this role play before but do you pretend to be his daughter in front of your children? I ask because I wonder the effect it would have on children watching their parents act as father/daughter.





skype said:


> What is remotely cute about incest?


Google "dominant daddy submissive little girl" and learn all you wish. It's not incest at all! It's simply the names used to further define a power and relationship dynamic. There is nothing predatory about this dynamic, no closet child molesters; these are consenting adults who want relationships with other consenting adults within the frame work of this power exchange dynamic.

If anything, it makes the relationship that much more difficult and usually that much more strong because it take a huge amount of insight, self acceptance, and communication to make it work.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Google "dominant daddy submissive little girl" and learn all you wish. It's not incest at all! It's simply the names used to further define a power and relationship dynamic. There is nothing predatory about this dynamic, no closet child molesters; these are consenting adults who want relationships with other consenting adults within the frame work of this power exchange dynamic.
> 
> If anything, it makes the relationship that much more difficult and usually that much more strong because it take a huge amount of insight, self acceptance, and communication to make it work.


Did you miss this sentence from jld's post?

"And while she was at it, she told this nice man about the incest in her family and how ashamed she was of how unhealthy her family was, but how she couldn't get out, because she was so dependent on them.
"


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I hear you, Anon. I do. But if jld is acting out what happened in her past in her marriage, I think some counselling would do her good for that (the incest).

I have never been in a dom/sub relationship nor and the a DD/lg (a new concept to me) is not something I'd ever be into so I can't really advise on that but I suppose like any other relationship - communication is absolutely key. 

Ultimately it seems you are not getting your emotional needs met.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> :lol: It's just a kink. Lots of people have this kink, but it's further in the closet than BDSM is or even used to be. I think it's cute!


Define lots. Even Dan Savage says ew about incest kink. 

And yeah, I really hope this doesn't get played out in front of your children. It's already inappropriate in the extreme that you discuss your husband's kinks with his 18 year old daughter. He's okay with that is he? Since he even thought they might scare you?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

skype said:


> Did you miss this sentence from jld's post?
> 
> "And while she was at it, she told this nice man about the incest in her family and how ashamed she was of how unhealthy her family was, but how she couldn't get out, because she was so dependent on them.
> "


Doesn't mean what you think it means. Or maybe it sort of does. It's not for me to define how JLD's sexuality expresses itself.

The point is.... Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lyris said:


> Define lots. Even Dan Savage says ew about incest kink.
> 
> And yeah, I really hope this doesn't get played out in front of your children. It's already inappropriate in the extreme that you discuss your husband's kinks with his 18 year old daughter. He's okay with that is he? Since he even thought they might scare you?


Can't define LOTS because I don't have the time to do a search on kink demographics, but you're welcome to.

It's not incest kink. It's an extension of D/s kink. That like saying someone had a medieval fetish if they call their husband My Lord.

She never has discussed their kink with the kids. And in families, it is actually VERY common for the wife or the husband to refer to the other as Mommy or Daddy especially in front of the kids. My husband used to do it. It bugged the crap outta me too, cause I don't have this kink. But he was raised in a family where he almost never heard his parents use their actual first names. It was Dadddy and Mom. Normal...ho hum, nothing to be alarmed about.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> *She never has discussed their kink with the kids.* And in families, it is actually VERY common for the wife or the husband to refer to the other as Mommy or Daddy especially in front of the kids. My husband used to do it. It bugged the crap outta me too, cause I don't have this kink. But he was raised in a family where he almost never heard his parents use their actual first names. It was Dadddy and Mom. Normal...ho hum, nothing to be alarmed about.





jld said:


> So I was sitting on the floor, crying like crazy after that last post, a*nd my daughter walks in.* * We actually had a big talk about kink last night, and I told her all about her dad's and my history with it, *and why that is why I have been upset and snappy and crying and distant.
> 
> So anyway, she came in to talk to me, and told me that her dad loves me very much, and while she does think he takes me for granted, she really doesn't think he would leave me for someone else. She told me the reason I was crying is that I love him very much. That made me feel better.
> 
> She also said he would not do any more for another woman than he does for me, that he would only give so much. But that is pretty typical for men, isn't it?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

> So I was sitting on the floor, crying like crazy after that last post, and my daughter walks in. We actually had a big talk about kink last night, and I told her all about her dad's and my history with it, and why that is why I have been upset and snappy and crying and distant.


ETA oh I see Coffee Amore beat me to it


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Lyris said:


> Define lots. Even Dan Savage says ew about incest kink.
> 
> And yeah, I really hope this doesn't get played out in front of your children. It's already inappropriate in the extreme that you discuss your husband's kinks with his 18 year old daughter.


Ok, I am totally lost here again.

I don't equate calling someone mommy or daddy in a flip manner to actually living out a dd/lg dynamic. There is a child-aspect to the 'lg' part and that to me, is not something I'd be down with. I just worry that it's an extension of not having gotten counselling/worked through the past sexual abuse. So a continuation of abuse in a way. Only in a marriage.

Edited: I just saw Coffee's quoted post of jld.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Missed the quote that Coffee pointed out, thanks!

Well, let's think about that for a minute.

Is it okay for adults to have sex?
Is it okay for adults to have a kinky sex life?
Is it okay for parents to educate their children about sex?
How much information about sex is it okay for a parent to teach their child!
Is this a personal issue or is there a hard limit line somewhere before getting naked and showing them how it's done? Yes there is a line somewhere before getting naked and showing them how it's done, but where?

What about the Mormon polygamists where the husband has several sister wives and all the kids know Daddy is sleeping with wife number whatever that night? 

What about parents like me, who want their daughters to know all about sexuality before they learn it on line or at school (and BTW my 14 DD has corrected her health teacher about STD mode of transmissions) where they are likely to be ill informed or outright misinformed?

Who's song was on the charts a few years ago about S&M? Was it Rheanna? My daughter, 12 at the time made fun of me for singing the lyrics wrong and told me it was BDSM. Then she asked what it meant. So I launched into dominance and submission for about 10 minutes until she interrupted me and said "MOM! I just want to know what it stands for!"

You all are poised to issue a judgement where perhaps it's not your place to.

How many couple here have been having sex and had a child barge in? How many couples here get busted having sex with each other and an adult child comes home at the wrong damn time (I know we have!) 

And it sounds like her daughter took the info in stride .... Just like you can't teach a kid to be gay or ungay, you can't teach a kid to have a kink, or not have a kink.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Ok, I am totally lost here again.
> 
> I don't equate calling someone mommy or daddy in a flip manner to actually living out a dd/lg dynamic. There is a child-aspect to the 'lg' part and that to me, is not something I'd be down with. I just worry that it's an extension of not having gotten counselling/worked through the past sexual abuse. So a continuation of abuse in a way. Only in a marriage.
> 
> Edited: I just saw Coffee's quoted post of jld.



Okay, let's follow that... What if it is? What if her kink of the DD/slg is her way of coping with and contextualizing her childhood? .....

Just not seeing any cause for concern? Her marriage has the same kind of problems any other marriage has, she just has this added dimension to it. She is not being abused, nor is she abusing anyone. I'm not seeing a reason to be concerned or alarmed.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

If you can't see the difference between giving your child important information about her health, or general information about sexual expression, and a parent discussing with her child intimate personal sexual details of a nature that shock and disgust many experienced adults then there's no point trying to explain it to you.

Look you're obviously very invested in jld and her supposed issues and identify with them to some extent. But it's blinding you to the totally unhealthy atmosphere those children are growing up in. What consenting adults do between themselves is none of anyone's business. Having such poor parent/child boundaries that you use your child for emotional support and discuss really hard core kinks with them is an issue for anyone who gives more of a sh*t about children than the adults who are supposed to be there to take care of them.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You're right I am invested with JLD and since I tend to be extremely loyal once I've given my loyalty, maybe I'm not seeing things as critically. I can admit that much.

But I honestly don't feel what JLD admitted to is anything that's going to harmfully cross a boundary with her daughter. Why should our children learn about various forms of kink from TV and the internet and not from their own parents?

Last week I had a VERY explicit sexual discussion with my 24 year old. VERY explicit. At first we were both hesitant to talk, but once I told her that when I was her age I knew nothing! I had no one to talk to and no way to seek information and I would have given anything to have a woman I could take to about sex and understand things better.

We ended the conversation with her swearing me to secrecy and never telling her father, then laughing about how that conversation with her father would go. What we talked about might shock some people, and some might think it crossed boundaries. But I don't agree.

Parents have sex. Parents sometimes have a kink. Our children need to be educated, who better than parents?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I am going to agree with Lyris here. Discussing sex is ok but there should be parent/children boundaries. There are lines that shouldn't be blurred and there is such a thing as TMI and eroding boundaries. Kink is obviously a fetish that not everyone is going to be into it and while I am all for people living their sex and dynamics how they want, when you have children, there are other things that should be taken into account. 

As far as the other stuff I mentioned, I don't think there is anything at all wrong with getting counselling for past sexual abuse. None at all. If someone hasn't deal with a past sex. abuse and/or incest, therapy and other means of help are not disdainful to take into account. 

I still think there is an emotional disconnect here and that is one issue; the other issue is telling the kids the Daddy Dominant/Little Girl Child marriage they have.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> I am going to agree with Lyris here. Discussing sex is ok but there should be parent/children boundaries. There are lines that shouldn't be blurred and there is such a thing as TMI and eroding boundaries. Kink is obviously a fetish that not everyone is going to be into it and while I am all for people living their sex and dynamics how they want, when you have children, there are other things that should be taken into account.
> 
> As far as the other stuff I mentioned, I don't think there is anything at all wrong with getting counselling for past sexual abuse. None at all. If someone hasn't deal with a past sex. abuse and/or incest, therapy and other means of help are not disdainful to take into account.
> 
> I still think there is an emotional disconnect here and that is one issue; the other issue is telling the kids the Daddy Dominant/Little Girl Child marriage they have.


Folks, dd is 18 and was wondering why Mom was so upset. No, we do not do anything in front of the kids. If you knew us in real life, you would laugh at all the concerns you have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I thought you were explaining to her the DD/lg dynamic you have.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the daughter mentioned was the 18 year old, so not a child technically.

Also, JB, you're assuming JLD hasn't already been in therapy and or hasn't "dealt with" her past.

What exactly does it mean "deal with." To me, it means the past events do not define how you cope in the world. And yet that is a very unlikely thing to happen. If your past was abusive, it will always effect you, always. How much of who we are has been informed by what we suffer and what we genetically bring to the table?

Those are all questions that are too big for me to answer so I go by this...

And it harm none, do what you will...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I was simply saying that if she hasn't gotten help for her past abuse, that she *could* do that. 

There is nothing wrong with suggesting someone get help to deal with/work through past abuse. 

Nonetheless, this comes down to communicating her issues to her husband and him working on them with her. It takes two. 

I hope she gets it sorted out because she sounds very unhappy/lonely with the status quo.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Okay, Lyris, dd18 just read your post and laughed out loud at the "unhealthy atmosphere" comment. She said, if anything, she and her brothers grew up in a "pure" atmosphere. Why don't we just stop the judgment already?

And AP, you are the best friend anyone could have. Thanks a million.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Seriously? You put stuff out there that very many people are uncomfortable with, that can trigger real distress about past abuse, that depicts a dynamic that many many people find concerning and you don't expect judgement? 

And forgive me if I am not reassured by your reporting that your 18 year old daughter, who was raised in your home and has no chance of any kind of objective view, being that she is 18, feels the atmosphere is healthy.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I have to agree with Lyris. I have an 18 year old daughter and there is no way I would discuss the intimate details, kinks and concerns of my sex life with her father. Also, I find it odd that she's even interested in hearing about it. I think most teenagers, would have their fingers in their ears, singing, "la la la".

I'm wondering because of your kink if you think of yourself as one of the children? So, instead of having a mother/daughter relationship, it's more of sister/sister relationship. I could see two sisters having this discussion but not a mother and daughter.

Also, I can't remember if you posted by why are you living apart from your husband? You're SAHM and homeschool, so it's not like you're leaving a job or pulling the kids out of school. Why didn't you move with him?

ETA: Why are burdening your daughter with your marital woes anyway?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lyris said:


> Seriously? You put stuff out there that very many people are uncomfortable with, that can trigger real distress about past abuse, that depicts a dynamic that many many people find concerning and you don't expect judgement?
> 
> .


This makes no sense.

What about her posts could possibly "trigger real distress from past abuse" and who would be triggered?

The judgment comes from a place where there is a lack of understanding. Past abuse+this age play kink=cause for concern? 

SoccerMom....her husband travel 20 out of 30 days. They do live together.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> I have to agree with Lyris. I have an 18 year old daughter and there is no way I would discuss the intimate details, kinks and concerns of my sex life with her father. Also, I find it odd that she's even interested in hearing about it. I think most teenagers, would have their fingers in their ears, singing, "la la la".
> 
> I'm wondering because of your kink if you think of yourself as one of the children? So, instead of having a mother/daughter relationship, it's more of sister/sister relationship. I could see two sisters having this discussion but not a mother and daughter.
> 
> Also, I can't remember if you posted by why are you living apart from your husband? You're SAHM and homeschool, so it's not like you're leaving a job or pulling the kids out of school. Why didn't you move with him?


He was changing companies for the first time ever (22 years with the first company). We were not sure he would like it. The housing market was depressed in our area and we did not know if we could sell. We also did not want to move the kids from an area with many resources to an area with few opportunities.

You ladies are making me laugh. If you only knew us in real life. No one really knows anyone else unless that person volunteers info. There are kinky people on this board who are not saying anything. 

I did not realize there was so much prejudice.

ETA: I was on my phone before. I asked my daughter about your question about how my children see me, and she said I am definitely a parent. 

She was concerned about why I was crying and upset. I decided to just be honest. I know some parents are not honest. But I am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> What about her posts could possibly "trigger real distress from past abuse" and who would be triggered?


Sexual abuse victims who perhaps notice something about this thread in themself and the different ways it plays out for themself and in others.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jld. If you have been abused in your past and never got some help or therapy for it, you could still be carrying invisible "scars" with you. You are one of the biggest sweethearts I have seen on this forum. I know from experience how sexual abuse as a child can affect a persons perceptions. I'm just trying to encourage you.

If you have suffered abuse, it could be some of what is making you unhappy or uncomfortable today.

Kink is fine, but if it might be in response or reaction to unresolved abuse, it won't help heal.

If I am totally off base then just forgive me, I just care.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Kink is fine, but if it might be in response or reaction to unresolved abuse, it won't help heal.


I agree with this, and I say this as a kinky person whose kink is helping to heal past relationship woes. 

Awareness is key; own the issue and understand your motivations. In other words, "work on your sh!t." 

jld has mentioned several times that she has a therapist, so I do think she has a resource, besides the internet and her kinky marriage, to deal with issues, past and present, that affect her emotional health.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

> SoccerMom....her husband travel 20 out of 30 days. They do live together.


He has an apartment somewhere else and he's gone for 20 out 30 days. That's not living together. JLD sounds kind of manic in her posts and she's using her teenaged daughter for support. I don't think the living apart situation is working very well for her. I think that needs to change.



> I did not realize there was so much prejudice.


I have no problem with the kink described. Go for it.

I have a problem with discussing intimate details of your sex life with your children. Like Lyris said:



> And forgive me if I am not reassured by your reporting that your 18 year old daughter, who was raised in your home and has no chance of any kind of objective view, being that she is 18, feels the atmosphere is healthy.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Sexual abuse victims who perhaps notice something about this thread in themself and the different ways it plays out for themself and in others.


I am a CSA survivor. None can say what will trigger others. But if you have triggers, it's on you to cope not the world at large to avoid triggering you.


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> How many couple here have been having sex and had a child barge in? How many couples here get busted having sex with an adult child who comes home at the wrong damn time (I know we have!)


k, I don't think you meant it this way, but it sounds like you're saying you got caught having sex with your adult child. 

I think you meant you and the H were having sex and an adult child came home early (like from college.) amiright?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> I agree with this, and I say this as a kinky person whose kink is helping to heal past relationship woes.
> 
> Awareness is key; own the issue and understand your motivations. In other words, "work on your sh!t."
> 
> jld has mentioned several times that she has a therapist, so I do think she has a resource, besides the internet and her kinky marriage, to deal with issues, past and present, that affect her emotional health.


Fair enough GI. I'm just offering a different point of view and I am coming from a crappy childhood point of view myself. I'm not doing the armchair quarterback here. Maybe your point is right, maybe mine is, maybe it is somewhere in between.

Childhood sex abuse is mind warping. It is hard to learn what is normal when your normal was hell.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Fair enough GI. I'm just offering a different point of view and I am coming from a crappy childhood point of view myself. I'm not doing the armchair quarterback here. Maybe your point is right, maybe mine is, maybe it is somewhere in between.
> 
> Childhood sex abuse is mind warping. It is hard to learn what is normal when your normal was hell.


Oh no, I very much agree with you, especially on your point about not using kink to compensate for/cover for scars from past abuse without ALSO working on those scars through appropriate therapy. 

You can't hide behind your kink, IMO; especially when you rely on your spouse to support you in that kink, ESPECIALLY if he/she doesn't share that kink. I think expecting a kink to compensate for those old wounds and buried hurts puts an awful lot of pressure on a marriage. Of course the marriage dynamic should be supportive; I don't say that jld or anyone else who "needs" a particular dynamic should not seek and expect that sort of support. But the marriage should not bear the entire burden.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> jld. If you have been abused in your past and never got some help or therapy for it, you could still be carrying invisible "scars" with you. You are one of the biggest sweethearts I have seen on this forum. I know from experience how sexual abuse as a child can affect a persons perceptions. I'm just trying to encourage you.
> 
> If you have suffered abuse, it could be some of what is making you unhappy or uncomfortable today.
> 
> ...


You are a sweetheart, too, Conan, and I appreciate your reaching out.

I have an appt. with the therapist on Thurs. and I will bring up the issues with my dad. I was scared of him until 8 mos. after he died.

I think maybe kink is too much to discuss here in an open-minded nonjudgmental way. I think my friends here are wondering why I didn't know this before. I am sorry to put them through this.

I don't generally (almost never) discuss this IRL. And I am a pretty open-minded, kind-hearted person who tries to look at the side of the underdog. I think people are who they are, sexuality-wise, and you just make your life easier if you accept them.

I am not cutesy, lol. But dh is the dad I always wanted, and I think he loves me just the way I am. I am really lucky I met him, because I really didn't care about my life anymore, and probably would have fallen into promiscuity. I just didn't feel loved at all.

And people are always telling us how nice and well-behaved our kids are. Dd18 was shocked last night when I told her (in a general way, no details, good grief) about her dad and me. She said she never would have guessed.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I guess I should not have said anything. Everything I said is what I was genuinely feeling. Dh has heard most if not all of it before.

When I start to get upset, I think everything I have ever done is wrong. I get overwhelmed and question everything, just filling myself with self-doubt. I will definitely be talking to the therapist about it.

There must be a strategy I can use when that starts up, instead of getting overwhelmed and flipping out. What I wrote on this thread was basically an emotional breakdown playing out.

One thing the therapist told me is that I can go along for a while in life, and then there is some kind of trigger, and I fall apart. And then, with help from her or dh or dd or friends, I pull back together and go on for a while more.

People are only going to share if they feel safe enough to do so. If they cannnot be transparent, they are not going to heal. Accepting people and gently helping them see where they might need healing will help them.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

uhaul4mybaggage said:


> k, I don't think you meant it this way, but it sounds like you're saying you got caught having sex with your adult child.
> 
> I think you meant you and the H were having sex and an adult child came home early (like from college.) amiright?


:lol:

Euuuuwaaaahhhh!


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## cavenger (Aug 26, 2012)

*Re: Re: Kink*



jld said:


> I guess I should not have said anything. Everything I said is what I was genuinely feeling. Dh has heard most if not all of it before.
> 
> When I start to get upset, I think everything I have ever done is wrong. I get overwhelmed and question everything, just filling myself with self-doubt. I will definitely be talking to the therapist about it.
> 
> ...


Jld.... That is true with everyone and your counselor is right. We can all be triggered, especially those who have dealt with trauma. I suggest you continue to talk to your counselor and be open and honest. There are others like you.... Don't feel like you are weird.... But don't forsake your husband either. Is he a good man? Then fight like hell for him.


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

jdl,
I was so vanilla in my very long marriage. My h, I now see, prob learned most of his moves from watching porn. After my d, I dated a guy who had been big in "the scene" of bdsm most of his life. I didn't DO a whole lot with him (tried out light bondage once, and he has a big tickling fetish,) but I LEARNED a whole lot, and it's amazing how your attitude can change when you understand something. If you are feeling hated on about kink on here, it's likely because our country is so repressed and so few people even understand the rudimentary stuff. So they fear it. 

I wonder if your DD/lg preference is a healthy or not. Meaning, I DON'T KNOW, and I'm WONDERING. Not judging you. Honestly. My understanding is that these sorts of constructs are most healthy when the two people come to them from a place of choice rather than need. If you are basically both emotionally healthy adults with little baggage, you are in a better place to deal with the emotional stress such a construct can place upon you. But if you are suffering PTSD from childhood incest, and have an anxiety based attachment pattern (I have that one. Google it.) and are also a Highly Sensitive Person (INFP--my myers briggs as well,) then you are using your sex life (maybe, just throwing this out there) to work out emotional issues that many people do work out in a counseling setting. I can't say whether it is more healthy or effective or useful to work it out in counseling than in the bedroom, but I think it is wise to look it in the eye and ask yourself if this is why you feel you "need" it so badly (rather than just wanting it..) I am just discovering my own kinks, and it is very liberating to explore yourself and give yourself permission to be free in this way. I don't see how anything you are doing is hurting you or your family, I just always see value in being able to, when you can, name why you do what you do. Self knowledge is important to me. I'm a slow learner, and it usually takes me making the same mistakes a number of times to see the forest, but I'm getting there. My computer is about to reboot, so I will have to continue...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I am a CSA survivor. None can say what will trigger others. But if you have triggers, it's on you to cope not the world at large to avoid triggering you.


You asked "who" would get triggered and I answered. Just because you may not get triggered doesn't mean someone else won't. Every thread is a possible trigger in TAM land. I responded directly to your question. 

JLD--It really does sound like you are feeling emotionally isolated/bereft and that is never a good place to be in a marriage. Especially as a woman. I hope you can sort it out with hub.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

I really think you need some serious therapy. You sound very confused, lonely, emotionally unstable and like you haven't healed from past trauma. 
I think you are trying to use your husband to get over your pain from being abused but it has to come from within you. 
Heal yourself, make you the center of your life. Kink or not that's what healthy adults are able to do.
I'm not judging your kink because I really don't understand it. But I think looking at all the other aspects of your posts you really do need help. I think fix yourself first and then see how your marriage feels. 
I wonder if you would feel so needy if you really felt good about you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

cavenger said:


> Jld.... That is true with everyone and your counselor is right. We can all be triggered, especially those who have dealt with trauma. I suggest you continue to talk to your counselor and be open and honest. There are others like you.... Don't feel like you are weird.... But don't forsake your husband either. Is he a good man? Then fight like hell for him.


Hi, cavenger. Can you explain what you mean by forsaking him? He is a good man. How do I fight for him?

I wish he would come on here. He has been dealing with my meltdowns like the one on this thread for 20 years. He wasn't flipped out by what I wrote. 

But he was moved by AP and SA and FW and GI to see that he really needs to make me a priority. And I am grateful to those gals.

Actually, you are giving me an idea. I wonder if dh should go to counseling with me? It's funny, because my counselor told me two weeks ago that our marriage is good because we can talk about everything (well, I certainly don't hold back), and that we would probably never need marital counseling. Lol.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Does your counsellor know you depend on your teenage daughter for emotional support?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

uhaul4mybaggage said:


> jdl,
> I was so vanilla in my very long marriage. My h, I now see, prob learned most of his moves from watching porn. After my d, I dated a guy who had been big in "the scene" of bdsm most of his life. I didn't DO a whole lot with him (tried out light bondage once, and he has a big tickling fetish,) but I LEARNED a whole lot, and it's amazing how your attitude can change when you understand something. If you are feeling hated on about kink on here, *it's likely because our country is so repressed and so few people even understand the rudimentary stuff. So they fear it.*
> 
> I wonder if your DD/lg preference is a healthy or not. Meaning, I DON'T KNOW, and this way. I don't see how anything you are doing is hurting you or your family, I just always see value in being able to, when you can, name why you do what you do. Self knowledge is important to me.


Isn't that the truth? 

It's hard for me to take people seriously who obviously have their own issues. People who are concerned ask questions or speak truth gently and kindly; they don't issue judgments or give lectures. 

I took a risk being open and honest. I think more people would if they thought they would be received with compassion and a genuine, respectful desire to understand.

I just have to laugh again at the idea that our kids are hurt by this. Hmm, a loving, peaceful home . . . sounds dangerous.

And I think self-knowledge is important, too. So you are INFP? Cool.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> You asked "who" would get triggered and I answered. Just because you may not get triggered doesn't mean someone else won't. Every thread is a possible trigger in TAM land. I responded directly to your question.
> 
> JLD--It really does sound like you are feeling emotionally isolated/bereft and that is never a good place to be in a marriage. Especially as a woman. I hope you can sort it out with hub.


We will. He sees now how important it is. And having friends like AP and FW really helps. He is going to listen to what they say. It's not just me anymore, you know? Many voices do make an impression.

And AP and FW are just really smart. Gosh, I feel lucky to know them.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

I would like to offer my support to jld, as someone who has never had a 'normal' relationship in which there hasn't been some kind of massive power imbalance, or fetish activity. 

I simply would not be happy with the kind of relationships that most people have, and it adds an extra layer of difficulty to finding the right person, but makes it easier also, to really connect with them when you do find them, I don't know why, but you know them better than anyone else and you can give them what no-one else seems to know how to do.

I can be comfortable with either older women, a sort of loving 'aunt' or more dominant woman leather and pain type, or a submissive one who is into being dominated, or a petite woman, and everything that goes with those implications, but sex without a context or fantasy or costume or implicit role-play doesn't interest me. 

This is all on a foundation of both finding it fun and comfortable, because I'm not looking for an object, like a predator is, but the soul of the person, it's about connection. I see it from both my point of view and get under the skin of the other person and can see it from theirs too, which is why I develop a really good sense of what works for each person, if I say so myself.

So this leads me to this point, for Jld: 

I know how the submissive and the 'daddy's girl' mind works in large part because having experimented with the other side of the equation with a woman who seemed to enjoy dominatrix fantasies - perhaps if you put yourself in the role of a dominatrix on occasion, then your husband might get a better understanding of what you're wanting and feeling?

For him, this craving of yours is like a maths equation. 

He knows the _theory _of 'being submissive' from observing you and trying to carry out ideas. But if he experienced it, a little, for himself... You might even like it... it's putting a lot on him to have him on a pedestal all the time. Occasionally, they don't want to be the 'responsible' one.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Oldfaithful said:


> I really think you need some serious therapy. You sound very confused, lonely, emotionally unstable and like you haven't healed from past trauma.
> I think you are trying to use your husband to get over your pain from being abused but it has to come from within you.
> Heal yourself, make you the center of your life. Kink or not that's what healthy adults are able to do.
> I'm not judging your kink because I really don't understand it. But I think looking at all the other aspects of your posts you really do need help. I think fix yourself first and then see how your marriage feels.
> I wonder if you would feel so needy if you really felt good about you.


Yes, there is truth to what you say. I am definitely not always emotionally stable, and that has to be a big part of why I married Mr. Stable.

And I have a big problem with self-esteem.

I need to talk to the therapist about this. She did tell me once that adults have temper tantrums, and that if dh is okay to deal with them, it is fine. I think the therapist is pretty realistic. Not everything has to fit a textbook, you know? Most of us are just trying to get along in life.

I think people might be a little too sterile, though. I did not start this thread to expose people to kink, and did not realize it is so hush hush. My goodness, it is reality. It is there. It would be a lot healthier if everyone who is kinky would show it sometime. Then people would have to face up to it without having their hair stand straight up.

And dh said he needs to help me. Some people can do it on their own, I guess, but I don't think I can. And I am glad I have someone to help me.

Have you ever read the Marriage Builders article where they talk about co-dependence? Apparently in marriage it is not such a bad thing.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

FW and AP are invaluable to the board, to be sure.

We aren't going through the same things - but I know it's difficult to bare ones soul. It is necessary, though. It's necessary to heal an move to a better place.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

A loving, peaceful home? Where the mother has regular emotional breakdowns? Where the father is basically absent? Where teenage children are used as emotional props? Where teenage children notice the attraction between their mother and tradesmen? Where the mother sees nothing wrong with slapping children across the face "when they have it coming"? Where there is, apparently, a seriously ill child who barely rates a mention in amongst the tantrums of an emotionally immature, unstable woman. Where there is no possible way that four homeschooled children are getting the attention they need from their mother due to the absolute torrent of posts, PMs, emails etc that are obviously her prime focus.

You put all this stuff out there. Don't want to be judged? Stop posting.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Lyris said:


> A loving, peaceful home? Where the mother has regular emotional breakdowns? Where the father is basically absent? Where teenage children are used as emotional props? Where teenage children notice the attraction between their mother and tradesmen? Where the mother sees nothing wrong with slapping children across the face "when they have it coming"? Where there is, apparently, a seriously ill child who barely rates a mention in amongst the tantrums of an emotionally immature, unstable woman. Where there is no possible way that four homeschooled children are getting the attention they need from their mother due to the absolute torrent of posts, PMs, emails etc that are obviously her prime focus.
> 
> You put all this stuff out there. Don't want to be judged? Stop posting.


I think you're exaggerating and putting your own issues into your replies, for example, about slapping the kids It seems to be a big issue, because you've repeated it maybe a few times - sometimes kids need a slap IMO - 

but in any case you're making big assumptions in the meantime about how extreme things are in the jld household. You could at least try a more conciliatory way of offering your opinion, and not get hung up on side issues which are more about your life policies and values. Who is it helping?


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Lyris said:


> A loving, peaceful home? Where the mother has regular emotional breakdowns? Where the father is basically absent? Where teenage children are used as emotional props? Where teenage children notice the attraction between their mother and tradesmen? Where the mother sees nothing wrong with slapping children across the face "when they have it coming"? Where there is, apparently, a seriously ill child who barely rates a mention in amongst the tantrums of an emotionally immature, unstable woman. Where there is no possible way that four homeschooled children are getting the attention they need from their mother due to the absolute torrent of posts, PMs, emails etc that are obviously her prime focus.
> 
> You put all this stuff out there. Don't want to be judged? Stop posting.



JLD, the person you have presented to TAM since you joined, is not the same person who started this thread. In post after post, you have tried to make it seem that you & your H have a match made in heaven, that you two were perfect. Are you bi-polar by any chance?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I don't understand the dynamics of this KINK or much of any fetishes ....but it's a curious thing.... *I won't judge*... I am a bit like AVON in the openness department with our older kids... we're just a bunch of open straight shooters in our house...and we're liable to talk about anything and everything.. 

NOT our personal bedroom antics..but this is pretty darn Tame really... compared to the majority......But opening up a fetish conversation- just for the curiousness of it...why not.. It's life...people do strange things...it's something to talk about ...it's variety... 

What compels any of us to LOVE or LIKE what we like... I'm going to say ...we are friends with our kids also..but they know who has the authority here... We do serve the consequences if they disobey...they learn...we don't baby them.... but we have very free give & take here in communication.. I wouldn't change a thing. 

When I was younger, my mother shared all kinds of sh** with me, I think I turned out alright...(maybe some may not agree)... she even crazily took me to see the Exorcist when I was 9 ! My mother wasn't the brightest bulb around... she just didn't shield me from much.. Probably good my dad got a hold of me...

Happy to hear your husband can see the concern in many of these posts jld... we just want what is best for you ...you are a compassionate person with much love to give...... May he be compelled to Hear your cries and you 2 work this out... if you both need some counseling together, that sounds good too.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

If you truly have a DD/lg relationship with your husband and you see him as a father figure then he has no business living apart from you. Both of you contributed to the dynamic of your relationship. Does anyone else see the connection with the DD/lg relationship, her emotional breakdowns and him being gone for extended periods of time? She feels lost that he's not around to be the father figure?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Phenix70 said:


> JLD, the person you have presented to TAM since you joined, is not the same person who started this thread. In post after post, you have tried to make it seem that you & your H have a match made in heaven, that you two were perfect. Are you bi-polar by any chance?


Is this necessary?

I would suggest you go back and reread all of her posts in this thread. You will find, among her brewing discontent about her husband not feeding her emotional beast often enough, complete adoration and idealization of her husband.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> If you truly have a DD/lg relationship with your husband and you see him as a father figure then he has no business living apart from you. Both of you contributed to the dynamic of your relationship. Does anyone else see the connection with the DD/lg relationship, her emotional breakdowns and him being gone for extended periods of time? She feels lost that he's not around to be the father figure?


Yes. It's been posted a few times.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Slapping children in the face is illegal in my country. And all I am doing is pulling out repeated themes from the thousands and thousands of words she's written.

I'm not interested in patting people on the head and saying there there, everything you do is fine. It's a waste of time and nothing more than soothing nonsense. 

If this was a childless couple intent for some reason on playing out their private dynamic on an open board I would have zero issue with it. But it's not. Homeschooled children are especially vulnerable because they have fewer people keeping an eye on them. At least schools have counsellors and mandatory reporters. 

I've been in the position of mandatory reporter. If a child told me a parent had slapped them across the face in anger, that's a reportable offence.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Sandfly said:


> I would like to offer my support to jld, as someone who has never had a 'normal' relationship in which there hasn't been some kind of massive power imbalance, or fetish activity.
> 
> I simply would not be happy with the kind of relationships that most people have, and it adds an extra layer of difficulty to finding the right person, but makes it easier also, to really connect with them when you do find them, I don't know why, but you know them better than anyone else and you can give them what no-one else seems to know how to do.
> 
> ...


Sincere, heartfelt thanks, Sandfly. We are not the only kinky people here. I really hope more of us will speak up.

I hear you on how boring normal relationships are. I wouldn't do it, either. And I can't keep it in the bedroom.

See, dh knows me really well. He wasn't flipped out today. He knows me. But he sees, after some pressure from my friends, that he really needs to step it up.

TAM is changing me. I am facing all kinds of issues that I did not before. It is like intensive therapy. I mean, some of the stuff I read here is ridiculous, but some is really spot on and painful. If something is painful (and I am not talking about people just being unkind because their own lives are so unhappy), that usually means there is an issue that needs to be explored. And I am honest enough with myself that I do it.

The other thing that happened to me on TAM is that I am meeting other kinky people. I don't know any in real life. And for the first time I can talk about things, and am generally supported. And I try to offer support. And the people experienced in the lifestyle are just so wise. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the advice they are giving to dh and me. We are listening, although dh was reluctant to at first.

I don't know, Sandfly, if people who are not kinky can appreciate how deep such a relationship is. The trust needed is incredible, and the connection is so strong. The loyalty is intense. For the submissive, the desire to please is overwhelming. There just is no peace without it. And for me, it conflicts with the need to be honest about what I need. I feel guilty.

Neither of us has a desire to be a switch. Not knocking it for anyone; everybody needs to be what they are. I think the kink community gets that. 

Dh does not feel burdened by his role, but sometimes he gets lazy. That is what he said, anyway. And to me, laziness is just selfishness. But having it just pushed in his face over the last few days has made an impression.

And that pedestal . . . he was telling me the other day I have him on a pedestal. I just can't shake it. I look up to him so much. And honestly, our kids do, too. Ds14 was commenting the other day that Dad is just so smart and calm . . . and hard to relate to, lol.

Again, thanks for speaking up.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lyris said:


> .
> 
> I've been in the position of mandatory reporter. If a child told me a parent had slapped them across the face in anger, that's a reportable offence.


When I worked I was a mandatory reporter too. Actually, not sure if I still am... I agree that slapping a child across the face is offensive and over the top. However, here in the US it is not a reportable offense unless there is a bruise or the child reports that there had been a bruise.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I guess our laws are a little more stringent then. I wonder what the rules are in France?


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Lyris said:


> I've been in the position of mandatory reporter. If a child told me a parent had slapped them across the face in anger, that's a reportable offence.


Well, report this then:

- I was slapped growing up, got a good kicking now and then
- All the kids I grew up with in my town were slapped/spanked/hit with slippers/canes/cords

and we all turned out a lot better than the little vandals and ungrateful brats littering the streets at midnight on a school night. You would prefer to put them into "care" by reporting their parents for trying to keep them in line in a world of unhealthy influences? ... perhaps you don't know what "care" they would receive from the other more dangerous children, who really need to be in "care"?

Once again, putting your issues into it.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Is this necessary?
> 
> I would suggest you go back and reread all of her posts in this thread. You will find, among her brewing discontent about her husband not feeding her emotional beast often enough, complete adoration and idealization of her husband.


I did read her posts, hence my statement. I also quoted her posts earlier in the thread. This thread is not what she has normally posted before on TAM and I don't mean anything to do with whatever her kink is. I asked if she was bi-polar based on the observation of this divergence from what she normally posts. It's not a condemnation of JLD, it's a question due to her 180 from what she has posted before. If you put your business out on a message board, you better be prepared for all kinds of reactions.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> Well, report this then:
> 
> - I was slapped growing up, got a good kicking now and then
> - All the kids I grew up with in my town were slapped/spanked/hit with slippers/canes/cords
> ...


Well I guess that explains where your kinks come from


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## blackdog (Dec 18, 2013)

That is likely our deal breaker. Thank you. We hardly experience any touch. Then comes hugs. Then comes petting. Then comes love making. Then comes experimenting other things. And I am in my early 40's. NO THANKS! Time to move on before I am dead! Boredom can only last so long!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Nobody knows where kinks come from, Lyris. It could be genetic, it could be environmental. 


People older than a certain were likely to have been slapped or spanked. They do not all have kinks.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

blackdog said:


> That is likely our deal breaker. Thank you. We hardly experience any touch. Then comes hugs. Then comes petting. Then comes love making. Then comes experimenting other things. And I am in my early 40's. NO THANKS! Time to move on before I am dead! Boredom can only last so long!


I don't quite understand your post. Would you like to elaborate?


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Lyris said:


> Well I guess that explains where your kinks come from



Were you a spoilt over-protected little madam, as a girl? Piano lessons, ballet, a pony and off to private school? Did they tell you that "you can be anything you want because you're unique and special"? Now you know better.

We can both play amateur psychologist, but shall we get back to being constructive instead?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anyway..... Thanks for sharing jld. On a lighter note and more in line with kink, my wife wants to molest me and then watch a movie.:smthumbup:

Gotta go for the night. Take care TAMMers.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> But opening up a fetish conversation- just for the curiousness of it...why not.. It's life...people do strange things...it's something to talk about ...it's variety...


I think having a GENERAL conversation about sexual fetishes is fine and I wouldn't see an issue with it, but when one gets specific about it "this is what your father and I do" or "I like it when your father does xxx to me or says xxx to me," it's crossing a line. I think that's highly inappropriate. I know at that age (age 18) or even now really, I would not want to know what specific kinky acts my parents engaged in. It would elicit a "lalalalalalala" .."I can't hear you" fingers in my ears type of response. No one wants to visualize their parents in specific kink acts. That information should be kept to the parents, not shared with the children even if they are 18 or 28 years of age.


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## blackdog (Dec 18, 2013)

Sorry. The thread is too odd for me. I have nothing to add.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

After reading this whole thread....I am feeling like I have a 'vanilla' sex life...there is not much kink in our bedroom. I sure wish the best for you jld! I wish I could offer you more help or words of wisdom.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Phenix70 said:


> JLD, the person you have presented to TAM since you joined, is not the same person who started this thread. In post after post, you have tried to make it seem that you & your H have a match made in heaven, that you two were perfect. Are you bi-polar by any chance?





Phenix70 said:


> I did read her posts, hence my statement. I also quoted her posts earlier in the thread. This thread is not what she has normally posted before on TAM and I don't mean anything to do with whatever her kink is. I asked if she was bi-polar based on the observation of this divergence from what she normally posts. It's not a condemnation of JLD, it's a question due to her 180 from what she has posted before. If you put your business out on a message board, you better be prepared for all kinds of reactions.


Once again, go back and read her posts. She still thinks her husband is perfect for her. She still loves him to pieces. She still thinks the sun rises and sets on his shoulders. 

She has made this thread about needing more from him and she framed it in terms of needing her kink more from him. She still adores him, she just needs more from him. I don't see any inconsistency here. :scratchhead:


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Once again, go back and read her posts. She still thinks her husband is perfect for her. She still loves him to pieces. She still thinks the sun rises and sets on his shoulders.
> 
> She has made this thread about needing more from him and she framed it in terms of needing her kink more from him. She still adores him, she just needs more from him. I don't see any inconsistency here. :scratchhead:


I think you're just too close, because I'm not the only who has noticed this.
Out of the complete blue she posts this thread, which up until now she framed her marriage as perfect, that she got everything she needed from her H, that she was amazed at the issues she saw people posting about on TAM.
Now, it's coming up that there is more to the story then what she presented. 
The kink is an aside point, as she also posted that she needs her H to do other things besides whatever it is that her sexual needs are.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

>I've already told you so much, weightlifter, do I have to tell you more?<

Apparently I have offended. I will cease posting in your thread. I apologize.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> >I've already told you so much, weightlifter, do I have to tell you more?<
> 
> Apparently I have offended. I will cease posting in your thread. I apologize.


I'm sorry to be so sensitive, weightlifter. That post to you was the hardest I have ever written. I couldn't say any more and still keep some dignity. Thank you for understanding -- and for pushing my limits.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Phenix70 said:


> I think you're just too close, because I'm not the only who has noticed this.
> Out of the complete blue she posts this thread, which up until now she framed her marriage as perfect, that she got everything she needed from her H, that she was amazed at the issues she saw people posting about on TAM.
> Now, it's coming up that there is more to the story then what she presented.
> The kink is an aside point, as she also posted that she needs her H to do other things besides whatever it is that her sexual needs are.


My dh read all the posts, and told me it is good I am finally writing some realistic posts. He told me he appreciate all the praise, but he thought it was not accurate. He told me I need to write more about his flaws. 

It's hard for me to admit he has flaws. He is so much to me. He lets me be who I am. He just accepts me.

But AP is exactly right, and has been for a long time. I need more from dh than I get. I need to be a priority. But it is hard for me alone to make that happen. The pressure from AP and FW works miracles. I cannot thank them enough.

And they are really teaching me how to be a better wife, I think. I think dh and I will both be grateful.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I Notice The Details said:


> After reading this whole thread....I am feeling like I have a 'vanilla' sex life...there is not much kink in our bedroom. I sure wish the best for you jld! I wish I could offer you more help or words of wisdom.


Lol, INtD. Thanks again for your post earlier today.

If you and your wife are happy with vanilla, go for it. I just can't live that way and be fulfilled.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You saved my life yesterday and today, AP. I never had such a good friend. And I want to be just as good a friend to you. Thanks for having my back. 

Sincerely,

jld


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Methinks kink is not the issue here.

I read the entire thread and somehow feel kink is simply a manifestation of other life 'wants' and not 'needs'.

A lot of us European types are mild, reserved types in real life. No wonder, the wild ones already moved to the USA a couple hundred years ago. So you run into a 'wall of serenity' every time emotions run wild. You want to feel this exhilaration that this cool, almost aloof guy whose idea of excitement may be removing the mattress tags, would do "wild things".

Methinks he could re-enact "The Story Of O" with you while the kids are away at summer camp and you'll want more - how about skydiving?

You're at an age where it's beginning to dawn on you if this is all there is. Maybe the SAHM and homeschooling track is taking a toll. Maybe it's "fulfillment"... A far more noble cause for the long term.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> Methinks kink is not the issue here.
> 
> I read the entire thread and somehow feel kink is simply a manifestation of other life 'wants' and not 'needs'.
> 
> ...


You made it all the way through the thread, john? You are a trooper. I won't even go back and read the whole thing. I was exhausted living it. And I needed a long while just to recover from the post to weightlifter.

Basically I need more attention from dh. And it took FW and AP being very clear and direct with him for that to happen. Isn't that called an intervention?

I just could not get the job done on my own. I just melt with him. But sometimes I melt down first. 

So now we need to be focused and specific about what needs to change, and put a structure together. It may take a while to get it all hammered out, but I feel like there was a shift today. And he hates to see me crying, and of course that is how it was when we started talking on FaceTime today. But by the end he had me smiling for him. He loves that.

I am changing here on TAM. I am learning a lot. And my expectations are getting higher. Before the energy went into homeschooling or taking care of the house. And honestly, tons of health anxiety. 

Now I am reading like crazy and focusing more on the marriage. I guess everything has a season, but it is so easy to get lost in the kids and house and put the marriage on the back burner, esp. if you are with a guy who also values the kids and will make sure he gets what he need from the marriage, even if it isn't what you need. His needs were never at risk, let me tell you.

It is nice to talk to someone who can get an overall flavor and not focus on all the discrete bits.

I really love being with dh when it is just the two of us. He really does focus on me then. 

When the kids are out of the house, he wants me to go on his business trips with him. I don't think I would want to go all the time, but sometimes would be nice. I think he would like to eventually work for himself, so this sounds doable.

When the kids are gone, I will just be focused on dh. And now that I am calmer, I can think of that patiently. I have been a bit too impatient, and dh specifically mentioned that today and yesterday.

Things are really coming into perspective now. I am so glad that breakdown is over. Whew.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

jld said:


> My dh read all the posts, and told me it is good I am finally writing some realistic posts. He told me he appreciate all the praise, but he thought it was not accurate. He told me I need to write more about his flaws.
> 
> It's hard for me to admit he has flaws. He is so much to me. He lets me be who I am. He just accepts me.
> 
> ...


That's great! I'm very happy for you that are acknowledging that you're just like the rest of us. 
Just kidding.
But seriously, being truly honest with yourself is the best way to get clarity on what it is you need from your H & even what he needs from you. 
Good for you for opening yourself up & for keeping the lines of communication going with your H, you're on the right path.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Glad to see all the psych classes I took were not for naught 

But make sure you don't smother by excessive attention seeking. And find ways to target some of your emotional energy to activities like arts, writing, etc. 

Life is good when you discover new things about yourself.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Phenix70 said:


> That's great! I'm very happy for you that are acknowledging that you're just like the rest of us.
> Just kidding.
> But seriously, being truly honest with yourself is the best way to get clarity on what it is you need from your H & even what he needs from you.
> Good for you for opening yourself up & for keeping the lines of communication going with your H, you're on the right path.


I never said I was a great wife, just that he was a great man. Did that not come through that way?

And believe me, I am a big believer in transparency. I think it is critical. And I am exhausted from it today.

Thanks for your message, Phenix70.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> Glad to see all the psych classes I took were not for naught
> 
> But make sure you don't smother by excessive attention seeking. And find ways to target some of your emotional energy to activities like arts, writing, etc.
> 
> Life is good when you discover new things about yourself.


Dh is not like that. I don't think he can get smothered. Getting through to him is more like it, lol.

Yeah, I do need some hobbies. It's like TAM has become my hobby. It is so interesting to read the different posts and try to offer ideas that can really help, like transparency and active listening. 

You're right; we always need to keep learning.

Say, just a thought, if you do want to lose weight, a low-fat vegan diet is an easy way to do it. McDougall is the way to go, I think. And men lose so quickly. Anyway, just wanted to mention McDougall.

Good night!


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

Hey JDL,
Google Dependent Personality Disorder. One of my counselors said I have it. I wonder if it is related to your kink somehow. It does not bother me that I feel that I need other people, but it does worry me that as we all get older, people I know and love will begin to die and leave me. I worry that I won't be able to function in the world alone in old age. It really does scare me, but I'm not the kind of woman who can bind herself to a man just to be taken care of. I'm not saying that's what you're doing. I'm just sorta exploring what you've got going on and comparing it to me, since we are alike in so many ways. 
I think idealistically I could like being damsel to a perfect soulmate. But I don't believe in perfect soulmates, and many of the men I have placed so much faith in have abandoned me. I can't put my life in someone else's hands to that extent. I have been destroyed too many times.


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

And yes, interacting with people on this site WILL make you change and evolve, so it does not surprise me at all that your posts begin to take a different voice. It's called growth.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> Nobody knows where kinks come from, Lyris. It could be genetic, it could be environmental.
> 
> 
> *People older than a certain were likely to have been slapped or spanked. They do not all have kinks*.


My Dad beat me with the belt once when I carelessly hurt a young neighbor boy, I can assure you ,* I NEVER did THAT again*!....Lesson learned..... When I was smaller....he'd tie me to a tree... I could move around and play with toys... with needing to get some work done - I was right there in his view feet away...so I wouldn't run into the road (if my Mom wasn't home).... Some would find these things abusive...I do not...

Never hurt me .... and I ain't got any kinks at all. Other than being a Hopeless Romantic- which others may think is half crazy.. but certainly not related to our parents asking us to march outdoors and pick which "switch/ stick" we want off the tree to get whipped with .. 

Husband's dad used to threaten that one.. I guess it was "enough"... he was a good boy for the most part.

Some of these delinquents I see in High school today...yeah love to hear the discipline they received.... one in our area...Just last week....He threatened to bomb the school on FB, was busting windows out , stole a tv, was at a Party that night, not sure who called the cops (same night our tire got slashed mind you- I have a feeling it was a car full of these punks).... he's now in a Juvenile Place (3rd freaking time -till he is 18...GOOD!).....

Looked at his Mother's FB page.. this woman was disgraceful, making excuses for her BRAT son -telling others to not judge her & her life that he is GOOD and God is on their side... I wanted to throw up..... If My son or daughter acted in that way... I would BE *ASHAMED*, I would be apologizing to the community .... they would get more Hell from me & their Father than a Judge would carry out..it starts at home...don't cuddle your brats.. teach them swift discipline and consequences... but yeah... never forget Love.. when they have this delicate balance ...they are more likely to LISTEN to their parents, weigh what is being taught......understand they truly care, it is for their GOOD....

I mean, some of these people have mental illness, that throws another monkey wrench into it ...it's not easy... but I do shake my head today with the LAX of discipline in the home...It's so evident, it's sad.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

uhaul4mybaggage said:


> Hey JDL,
> Google Dependent Personality Disorder. One of my counselors said I have it. I wonder if it is related to your kink somehow. It does not bother me that I feel that I need other people, but it does worry me that as we all get older, people I know and love will begin to die and leave me. I worry that I won't be able to function in the world alone in old age. It really does scare me, but I'm not the kind of woman who can bind herself to a man just to be taken care of. I'm not saying that's what you're doing. I'm just sorta exploring what you've got going on and comparing it to me, since we are alike in so many ways.
> I think idealistically I could like being damsel to a perfect soulmate. But I don't believe in perfect soulmates, and many of the men I have placed so much faith in have abandoned me. I can't put my life in someone else's hands to that extent. I have been destroyed too many times.


(((((uhaul)))))

I will talk about the abandonment in a minute, but I'd like to go through your post step by step first.

Yes, I have looked at this disorder. Yes, I probably have it, too.

I don't know, uhaul. There are so many "disorders" now. I don't know if I really agree with that. I think some people are submissive, men as well as women. I think we are all happiest when we accept ourselves as we are, esp. in terms of sexuality.

I will tell you that the concern with dependency is how I eventually got on TAM.

One night last fall, I had just gotten back from Children's Hospital. Ds11 had started to have seizures, and we needed to go in for a brain wave test. His brother, ds14, had a cancer relapse a year and a half ago, and I had had some of my own health issues. I was basically worn down by health anxiety.

So the brain wave test was abnormal, and I was just overwhelmed. I just didn't have any energy to cope. And dh was in Europe for two weeks. And I had laryngitis, so I could not have talked to him anyway, even if it weren't 2 am there.

And so I was just totally overwhelmed, just exhausted. And I just couldn't understand why I was always leaning on him, always depending on him, always reaching out to him for help. It just seems so wrong, no? We are supposed to be such strong independent feminists. We don't need men, right? And we certainly can't trust them. Right?

But all that teaching is not what I feel on the inside with dh. I act in very primal ways with him, and always have. I cannot, little jld all by herself, overcome Nature.

But overcome by guilt, and just overwhelmed in general, I googled something like, "dependent on husband." And a bunch of men's rights websites came up.

Now, I had heard of men's rights, but didn't really know what it was. And I picked a terrible site to start out with, one run, apparently, by a woman!

My goodness, the hatred I saw there. My goodness. The fury towards SAHMs, towards women in general. I was shocked. I only lasted a few minutes. Then there was a link to NMMNG, which I had never heard of, and I clicked.

That seemed more normal. And I started reading the threads, and was surprised that cheating wives were so common. Not that way among my friends and me, let me tell you. We're pretty focused on being good.

And one poster was talking about how, by being patient but firm with his wife, he had turned around his marriage. And the other men seemed to hate him. And I could not figure out why. (I did not read enough of his posts, but later did, and understood better.)

So I asked. And they answered, and I learned a lot.

But then one started attacking me, and I was at first shocked, and then felt guilty. It was about these meltdowns I have. He was just so critical. My dh is never critical like that. He just accepts the meltdowns and helps me through them. But I guess some men are threatened by them.

Well, I felt so guilty, like I was such a bad wife. And I told dh and he said that was ridiculous. 

So another poster there had mentioned a place called TAM, and I came here. It seemed even milder and more open than NMMNG, which really is for men, and I started reading. And eventually I plucked up my courage and started participating. And I have grown so, so much. And I am absolutely humbled by some of the people I have met here.

Tell you what, I will post this right now, and continue, okay?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

uhaul4mybaggage said:


> It really does scare me, but I'm not the kind of woman who can bind herself to a man just to be taken care of. I'm not saying that's what you're doing. I'm just sorta exploring what you've got going on and comparing it to me, since we are alike in so many ways.
> I think idealistically I could like being damsel to a perfect soulmate. But I don't believe in perfect soulmates, and many of the men I have placed so much faith in have abandoned me. I can't put my life in someone else's hands to that extent. I have been destroyed too many times.


You have to be yourself, uhaul. Not every woman is naturally submissive. To me, and to my dh, his providing for me is just a basic responsibility. I do appreciate it, and he knows it, but he still considers it just his basic job. He is pretty traditional that way.

I feel bad for women whose husbands don't provide for them. I know they probably feel offended by that. I don't mean it unkindly. I just think it is already a job to be a wife and mother and keep a house. And really, children need their mothers. At least in my worldview, I guess.

Because I know how I am going to be with any man I am going to accept to be with in a relationship, I had to be very careful. It is okay to give yourself completely to a man . . . if he is worthy of you. I really was foolish with that professor. So naive. So drawn in by his intelligence, and the fact that he had written books.  Live and learn. And use it as a basis for compassion for other people who have made mistakes, too.

So when dh told me he loved me, I looked at him pretty critically. We had only known each other six weeks, and I thought he was just a friend. We were renting rooms in the same house, and there was never a chance to put on for each other. We were just ourselves right away. No pretending.

It worked out well, because he saw me just the way I was, and really liked me. I had some time to get to know him and build at least basic trust. So I wasn't scared when he told me he loved me, just surprised.

So anyway, I sized him up and thought he would be a good husband, good father, and good provider. And all three were important to me. People think it is materialistic to think of a man in terms of provider, but I knew it was necessary and a part of reality, at least for me. We all have different requirements.

And a day or two after we started our relationship, I sat down and told him everything I could think of about my past, all the bad things. I wanted there to be full disclosure, so he could make an informed decision. 

I am not a game player. I can't relate to that kind of thing. I was just kind of straight up, take me or leave me right now so I can move on, with him. I had been hurt pretty recently, and just couldn't take more of that.

Well, he shocked me. He heard everything and did not blame me. He just felt compassion for me. And I didn't understand that, because I definitely was used to a world of blame.

Do you hear Lyris's tone? Men can sound like her, too. It is not just women. I was used to that. But dh was so different, so kind and compassionate and understanding. I thought he was an angel in human form.

Well, not to go on forever, but basically he earned my trust. And with my trust developed my love.

But he has to continue to earn it, you know? That is what FW was trying to get across. You don't just buy a woman and own her for the rest of your life. A man has to make efforts, too.

Okay, on to abandonment. I so totally understand, my dear. So sad, but I totally understand.

Men can just be awful, can't they? So selfish. Dh told me that men are selfish and women are vulnerable. That has rung pretty true to me.

And what is so hard, is that we women love men. We just can't help ourselves. And if more men would be responsible, there would be fewer problems in marriages.

And they don't realize how weak they look, and truly are, when they blame their wives. So unappealing. So unattractive. So unhealthy.

And what always surprises me is when women defend men who do that! They must not know it could be different. I think they have not been well-treated by men, and are used to that. And somehow accept it as normal for everyone.

Uhaul, you have to be extremely careful if you are like me. We INFPs are kind of fragile this way. If you are with the right man, a man who will sacrifice for you, it is okay to give yourself to him. And you should *never* be with a man to whom you cannot give yourself, if you are like me. Even with my dh, there is some taking for granted. 

So look for an unselfish man. Really look at character. I was physically attracted to dh, but I was not drooling over him. I just stood in amazement at his character, however. Mature. Responsible. Secure.

And I really think more men could be this way, if they could get out of their own way. A book like Seven Habits for Highly Effective People is excellent for character development.

We all have flaws. Being humble enough to admit them lets us improve them. But men especially have a hard time with pride. Yes, my man, too.

And one last thing: There is a proverb in Spanish, "Mejor solito que mal acompanado." Better to be alone than in bad company.

Much, much better to be single than to be with a selfish man. 

I'm going to send you a friend request, uhaul.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Some of these delinquents I see in High school today...yeah love to hear the discipline they received.... one in our area...Just last week....He threatened to bomb the school on FB, was busting windows out , stole a tv, was at a Party that night, not sure who called the cops (same night our tire got slashed mind you- I have a feeling it was a car full of these punks).... he's now in a Juvenile Place (3rd freaking time -till he is 18...GOOD!).....
> 
> Looked at his Mother's FB page.. this woman was disgraceful, making excuses for her BRAT son -telling others to not judge her & her life that he is GOOD and God is on their side... I wanted to throw up..... If My son or daughter acted in that way... I would BE *ASHAMED*, I would be apologizing to the community .... they would get more Hell from me & their Father than a Judge would carry out..it starts at home...don't cuddle your brats.. teach them swift discipline and consequences... but yeah... never forget Love.. when they have this delicate balance ...they are more likely to LISTEN to their parents, weigh what is being taught......understand they truly care, it is for their GOOD....
> 
> I mean, some of these people have mental illness, that throws another monkey wrench into it ...it's not easy... but I do shake my head today with the LAX of discipline in the home...It's so evident, it's sad.


I hear you, SA. I grew up in a rural area, and kids in our *high school* were paddled for breaking school rules. That was 30 years ago, and I am sure that has changed, but there were not a lot of problems in that school.

And I totally understand your second paragraph.

Kids need love. That is the absolute base. It is more important than discipline, and if you can only have one, you need love.

But discipline is a gift. Kids need to know limits. We all face limits our whole lives. TAM encourages limits. No cheating. Period. Most of us accept that limit. We know the price we will pay if we don't.

Really, discipline is just to help us avoid heartbreak. It is supposed to help us live happy lives, not chaotic ones.

Your kids are happy, SA. I can just tell. And I think mine are, too.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> *Men can just be awful, can't they? So selfish. Dh told me that men are selfish and women are vulnerable. That has rung pretty true to me.
> 
> And what is so hard, is that we women love men. We just can't help ourselves. * And if more men would be responsible, there would be fewer problems in marriages.
> 
> ...


 I tend to look at this differently.....on the other hand... there are plenty of selfish out of control women who can make a good man's life a living hell or freeze him out of sex ....and he may stay for the love of his children... because he is that GOOD MAN...and his heart is FOR THEM..... I very much feel for his sacrifice....

And not being with a submission women... he can't get that control over her/ she would never have it....I don't see all women as helpless by any means...they are capable of some pretty unscrupulous things ..not everyone has a similar dynamic as you are living...your being a submissive...who worships the ground he walks on, even despite his not being there...you are a rare bird indeed. Many women have taken a good man for Granted.. just cause they can....cheating behind his back even...it happens. 

It goes both ways... Men need to be VERY VERY careful who they marry... just as we women need to be as well...... I don't look upon one sex any more favorably or with more responsibility over the other.. we both need to do our parts.....

But it's true, we come from very different backgrounds...In my experience, it has been the men who were kinder, saved me from the women.. even in 5th grade, a new school... I walked into the Bathroom & some punk girl wanted to beat me up for looking at her the wrong way... I was thinking :wtf: ....after school.. who stood up for me, saved me from this little witch..... a BOY!! .... My mother abandoned me, my Step Mother was a nasty woman...My Dad was there for me when I needed him....he cared about my welfare....

MEN have been kinder to me over women... I have to be careful of not showing too much bias here on this forum even...as I have alienated women at times.. I surely realize ugly mean abusive men exist, more because of the riff Raff my mother hung out with..she's been beat up, raped... so I am not clueless either... it matters a great deal the circles we run in...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm so sorry, SA. That is just terrible about being threatened by those girls. How frightening.

I'm sure what you are saying is true. I just haven't experienced that much, I guess. My friends IRL are pretty much like me. I guess my mom and sisters are, too.

To be honest, dh did recently say that some women are selfish, too. He works in a male-dominated industry, and has never worked with as many women as men.

But he has known plenty of men, and has heard their stories.

Certainly we need to look at each person's individual character.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> *Certainly we need to look at each person's individual character*.


This is it....I can't deviate from it...even between me and my husband.. I consider him kinder than myself.. less selfish... more of those "fruits of the spirit" shining through....

I know you are always for the victim.. I am too!... I don't see all men as Superman though.... I can recognize their flaws/ even some insecurities ...this doesn't make me look upon them any less at all ....ya know ...when it is small stuff that isn't hurting other people that is.. or making their lives miserable... 

I like this scripture...it is sexless...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think I have a hard time being objective, SA. I grew up in a conservative area, and I just don't remember many women being the problem in their marriages.

And I have been pretty isolated as a homeschooling SAHM.

It is good for me to be at TAM because it is challenging my vision. I am just used to my own views, you know?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I think I have a hard time being objective, SA. I grew up in a conservative area, and I just don't remember many women being the problem in their marriages.
> 
> And I have been pretty isolated as a homeschooling SAHM.
> 
> It is good for me to be at TAM because it is challenging my vision. I am just used to my own views, you know?


 I don't think we can change our perceptions easily....and that's fine....after all...these are part of your life experiences...you can't erase them.... but we can ...and say to ourselves... look at the facts of this particular situation... and not jump to Pre-judge boxing each sex in firmly looking through tainted lenses... be open.....

Each story can be so varied... so vastly different.. how true though...MEN have 5-10 times more Testosterone running through their veins... *which causes them that aggression*...if they are not taught to channel this rightly... (Sports is often a good outlet for teen boys)...oh the dangers ahead....

If such men grow up with a bullying "who gives a F***" mentality, no decent Male Role models to inspire them to care about their futures, seeing the value in being a GOOD PERSON standing up for what is right, showing respect & being a man of his word....one can see WHY they turn out the way they do...

I don't have all the answers...does any of us...

Our oldest son just got a Job at a Juvenile school, it's an all boys institution... from troubled backgrounds... I am sure he will be full of stories to what kind of lives these kids grew up with.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I don't really see this as being a kink. To me that would be like defining gay as a kink. This is more just who you are and whether it was brought on by a less than ideal childhood or genes does not matter much. 

Sorry but I do not think children need to be kept in the dark never to truly know their parents. 

I missed reading several pages but jld you do not need to be ashamed of who you are. Nobody is perfect. The only time this sort of thing is a problem is when it adversely effects others. How you and your SO want to define your relationship is totally up to you two. 

I do think your domestic isolation is wearing on you though. Most people need a vacation away from the kids every once in a while.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

jld said:


> I think I have a hard time being objective, SA. I grew up in a conservative area, and I just don't remember many women being the problem in their marriages.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Do you know why he didn't judge you about your past? I think a lot of people like to be rescuers, especially men. It makes them feel powerful and special. 
And so for all the beating up of yourself that you do, you have to keep in mind he chose you for a reason. He isn't just putting up with you, he needs you to be someone who needs rescuing. He needs to be the person who is the rock. 
I'm not judging him but he is definitely getting a lot out of being the "normal" one, being the rescuer. You both have a role to play in this. I don't think you should see it as him being better than you or him putting up with you because he chose someone who is dependent and needy and unstable emotionally because it fulfills his needs. 

I'm going to be honest with you. I see the kink thing as being the least of your worries. You have a huge festering emotional wound and you are grasping at straws trying to distract yourself from the pain instead of looking straight at the pain and healing that.
I think you need to find a therapist who specializes in victims of abuse and start doing intense therapy to heal from that. It's like if someone beat you so hard that you couldn't walk and you are crawling around ignoring your leg and acting like something is wrong with you for crawling. 
Nothing is inherently wrong with you. But if you don't get your rehab to walk again you are just going to crawl and blame yourself for being dependent on others to do things for you. 
Read "the courage to heal", start facing the abuse and taking active steps to heal and I think you will be much better off than focusing on these other issues. 

I honestly see some borderline personality disorder going on but it could be just unhealed trauma too. 
I feel bad for you but you have to address the past before you can move forward.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Oldfaithful said:


> Read *"the courage to heal"*, start facing the abuse and taking active steps to heal and I think you will be much better off than focusing on these other issues.


I looked this book up for you jld...

The Courage to Heal - Third Edition - Revised and Expanded: A Guide for Women Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse: 



> The Courage to Heal is an inspiring, comprehensive guide that offers hope and encouragement to every woman who, was sexually abused as a child -- and those who care about her. Although the effects of child sexual abuse are long-term and severe, healing is possible. The authors weave personal experience with professional knowledge to show the reader how she can come to terms with her past while moving powerfully into the future. They provide clear explanations, practical suggestions, a map of the healing journey, and many moving first-person examples of the recovery process drawn from their interviews with hundreds of survivors.
> 
> Definitive in scope, The Courage to Heal speaks directly to the survivor in a warm and personal way:
> 
> ...


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

I forgot to say in your current state I wouldn't attempt to go through this book without the assistance of a specialist in abuse and trauma. 


Also it is very common for INFP abuse survivors to be in relationships with narcissists. I'm not saying that your husband is one because I don't know enough and I'm not an expert. 
But these two types fit together like magnetic puzzle pieces. It's incredibly common. 

The narcissist needs to feel superior to the wounded spouse and to feel like a rescuer. The INfP is in awe of the other persons confidence and "stability". The narcissist needs to be heavily admired all the time.
It's something to consider.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

jld said:


> Last night I thought I just couldn't come back. Here I was, so open and honest, and I really wasn't getting that kind of heartfelt sharing back, not to the level I thought I would. I just felt so embarrassed.


I'm glad you're still here. Not all of us can share and open up like you do. That takes a special kind of person.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't have all the answers...does any of us...


How true, SA, how true.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> I don't really see this as being a kink. To me that would be like defining gay as a kink. This is more just who you are and whether it was brought on by a less than ideal childhood or genes does not matter much.
> 
> Sorry but I do not think children need to be kept in the dark never to truly know their parents.
> 
> ...


Thanks, usmarried. I was surprised by the comments on kink and the criticism of how I raise my kids. I think the people who have been critical would feel different if they knew my family in real life.

I am not ashamed of being kinky. I was ashamed of feeling attracted to other men. It was interesting to hear other women may not feel that way at all. I think I just have a very sensitive conscience. Dh says I just have a big imagination.

Then again, it could be that Catholic upbringing . . .


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi, Oldfaithful. Dh read your post and agreed that he likes being the rescuer. It makes him feel needed.

I was kind of surprised to hear that. But I have long felt we had a rescue marriage.

I am not ashamed of the kink, and I don't think it has to do with my family. I think it's inborn. I don't know, of course, but I just think that.

At any rate, I will look at the book you mention, and am going to show the various points made in this thread to the therapist on Thurs.

I asked my current therapist (LCSW) and my former one (psychologist) about BPD, and they both emphatically said no way, not at all.

I basically had a meltdown Fri and Sat. Dh was not available, and I was frantic. All the scary, desperate thoughts came crashing in. 

He is coming home Fri and we are going to work on a plan for what I can do when this sort of thing happens.

Thanks for your post.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi, SA. I will put that book on hold at the library. Thanks for looking it up for me.

I think it would really be helpful for me to look at my memories of my dad through adult eyes and not through a child's memory.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Oldfaithful said:


> The narcissist needs to feel superior to the wounded spouse and to feel like a rescuer. The INfP is in awe of the other persons confidence and "stability". The narcissist needs to be heavily admired all the time.
> It's something to consider.


No, dh is not a narcissist. He is actually pushing me to face his flaws, and write more about them. He thinks what I write about him is too idealized. 

He definitely does not feel superior to me. He is always trying to raise my self-confidence.

Your second sentence up there is so true, though. So true.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> I'm glad you're still here. Not all of us can share and open up like you do. That takes a special kind of person.


Thanks, soulpotato. I am sorry I have not been over at your thread more, being supportive. I know what you are going through is rough. 

I was really embarrassed to write all that. I really turned my heart inside out. But I think the only way we can really learn and grow is through transparency. And I refuse to live a stagnant life.

I did find out how easy it is to be misunderstood, though, when you are just trying to be open and honest.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

jld said:


> Hi, Oldfaithful. Dh read your post and agreed that he likes being the rescuer. It makes him feel needed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm glad they don't think you are BPD because it's very hard to get better.
What kind of melt downs are you having?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Oldfaithful said:


> I'm glad they don't think you are BPD because it's very hard to get better.
> What kind of melt downs are you having?


My friend, lol, the first five or six pages of this thread are a meltdown in action.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

jld said:


> Thanks, soulpotato. I am sorry I have not been over at your thread more, being supportive. I know what you are going through is rough.
> 
> I was really embarrassed to write all that. I really turned my heart inside out. But I think the only way we can really learn and grow is through transparency. And I refuse to live a stagnant life.
> 
> I did find out how easy it is to be misunderstood, though, when you are just trying to be open and honest.


You're welcome. My heart is always glad to see your posts, and I suspect a lot of other people's are, too. Do not worry, you do not need to expend your energy on me. What's important right now is focusing on your own needs and happiness. You deserve to have your needs met and to be happy. 

Indeed. That is why I cannot be that open and I closely guard myself. In the best case scenario, people will misunderstand. At the worst, they will try to destroy you. My partner is a tiny bit like you in that she wants to believe that people are honest and generally good. I am the opposite. I believe people and the world are mostly bad and evil, lying all the time, and can rarely be trusted with anything valuable or vulnerable. 

You are a good person. You don't deserve the crap people will give you over various things. I'm sorry. Our power is so limited in this world.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Oldfaithful said:


> I'm glad they don't think you are BPD because it's very hard to get better.


Yeah really, maybe someone will take pity on us someday and invent a magic pill that will either "fix" us or end the fight.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> You're welcome. My heart is always glad to see your posts, and I suspect a lot of other people's are, too. Do not worry, you do not need to expend your energy on me. What's important right now is focusing on your own needs and happiness. You deserve to have your needs met and to be happy.
> 
> Indeed. That is why I cannot be that open and I closely guard myself. In the best case scenario, people will misunderstand. At the worst, they will try to destroy you. My partner is a tiny bit like you in that she wants to believe that people are honest and generally good. I am the opposite. I believe people and the world are mostly bad and evil, lying all the time, and can rarely be trusted with anything valuable or vulnerable.
> 
> You are a good person. You don't deserve the crap people will give you over various things. I'm sorry. Our power is so limited in this world.


People can't really destroy us, soul. And when they try, it is because they are so hurt inside. They only want to hurt someone else.

No matter what we say or do, someone is going to misunderstand. It is part of life. And not everyone is going to like us.

But soul, if we are not ourselves, our true selves, we are not ever going to find the people who really and truly like us.

God loves you, soul, however you conceive God to be. A part of God is in you, your soul. You have worth. You must believe this.

You know, I rely on dh so much. But there are things he cannot give me. And self-love is one of them. 

He has certainly provided a stable environment. And he does love me. But he can only help with the conditions. I have to decide to love myself, to find worth in myself. I have to defend myself and know that I have good motives. I cannot rely on other people for that. They do not know me that well. I have to believe in myself.

And you do, too.


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

jld said:


> I am not ashamed of being kinky. I was ashamed of feeling attracted to other men. It was interesting to hear other women may not feel that way at all. I think I just have a very sensitive conscience. Dh says I just have a big imagination.
> 
> Then again, it could be that Catholic upbringing . . .


I am not at all ashamed of being attracted to anyone I'm attracted to. And I'm not upset with my man (when I have one) if he expresses appreciation of the scenery, either. In fact, I am very likely to jab him with my elbow and tell him, "get a load o that!" to which he is usually surprised but appreciative.

My Dad used to have an expression: "I'm married, not DEAD." I was raised with the attitude that people are supposed to be attracted to others, and if you're monogamous you don't act on it, but there is absolutely no shame in looking. 

My ex and I used to play "who would you do, x or y?" We also each had our "list" of 3 people we were allowed to break vows for. It was all a game; we both knew neither of us was actually going to break vows for anyone over physical attraction. Our LIST people had to be celebs or people we had virtually no chance of actually ever meeting. THey couldn't be neighbors, co workers, my sister, etc. It went something like this: You know I love ya, babe, but if Jessica Alba comes to the front door... And I'm back at him with.."no biggie. I'm already busy with xx anyhow." And we'd laugh. 

One of the things my ex liked about me was that I was very confident about my own sex appeal and wasn't threatened by him looking. Even after things went south for us, and he did end up having an EA and we split, I still feel that was symptomatic of a completely different problem for us. And when I date now, I am very upfront that I don't expect a guy to pretend there are no other women in the room, and I expect them to understand that even though I have no intentions of touching, I am not going to put up with a lot of jealousy. Attraction is natural. Acting like you are wearing blinders is fake to me, and knowing my guy likes a nice female form makes me feel all the sexier that he chooses me. 

Catholic? Don't get me started on that. I have never in my life met a person raised Catholic (including my ex) who has a healthy spin on sex. IMHO, of course. 

Remember Jimmy Carter crying on TV about having cheated on his wife in his heart (because he'd had lustful thoughts about other women?) Yeah, I have enough REAL crap to ruminate about. I don't buy that "I sinned in my heart" stuff. Guilt over stuff I haven't done is not my specialty. But you guys who dig it, knock yourself out. YKINMK (Your kink is not my kink.) ;-)


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

jld said:


> People can't really destroy us, soul. And when they try, it is because they are so hurt inside. They only want to hurt someone else.


A human being can most certainly be destroyed by other people. I'm surprised you don't think so. It's actually quite easy. Our minds can be quite fragile. The things we depend on are actually quite delicate, only we don't see it until things are all torn down.



jld said:


> No matter what we say or do, someone is going to misunderstand. It is part of life. And not everyone is going to like us.


Haha, yes, of course. More often than not.



jld said:


> But soul, if we are not ourselves, our true selves, we are not ever going to find the people who really and truly like us.


In my experience, there are few people who would really like some of us anyway, and you can really get hurt being your true self all over the place. Cost/risk is usually not worth the slim (vaguely possible) benefits. People only care for and "love" that which resembles them and provides what they want. It's conditional on performance and supply. Who we are can really be an impediment. Recent experiences only reinforce this for me. Which is a shame. It'd be nice if it were that kind of world. I try to be as much myself as possible with my partner. Keeps me sane.  She's the only person who ever really seemed to want the real me in any capacity.



jld said:


> God loves you, soul, however you conceive God to be. A part of God is in you, your soul. You have worth. You must believe this.


JLD, I don't feel that love. I can't believe in things I can't perceive or verify in some way.



jld said:


> You know, I rely on dh so much. But there are things he cannot give me. And self-love is one of them.
> 
> He has certainly provided a stable environment. And he does love me. But he can only help with the conditions. I have to decide to love myself, to find worth in myself. I have to defend myself and know that I have good motives. I cannot rely on other people for that. They do not know me that well. I have to believe in myself.
> 
> And you do, too.


Hmm. You make it sound so easy. Stability sure would make life simpler. I'm pretty good at the defending myself part, but...I get very frustrated with some of the psychobabble. I do not know how to love myself, or how to have unwavering belief in myself. You might as well tell me to perform magic.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi, uhaul. I hear your strong feelings on the subject of attraction, and I'm sorry my post upset you. Like you said, we have enough real problems to deal with, why deal with imaginary problems?

There was a thread a month or so ago where people were debating pretty heatedly how they felt about giving their partners permission to have sex with an unlikely person (celebrities).

It could be that some people are more secure than others, or that some people are more sensitive. Different people are certainly different.

We do all learn from what each one of us shares. Thank you for your post.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> A human being can most certainly be destroyed by other people. I'm surprised you don't think so. It's actually quite easy. Our minds can be quite fragile. The things we depend on are actually quite delicate, only we don't see it until things are all torn down.
> Yes, I see this. But I think we can resist. I think we have to nurture the ability to resist.
> 
> I feel sometimes like I could not live without dh, but I know this is not really true. It would be painful to lose him, but I was not born into the world with him. I came here alone, and I will leave here alone. And that must mean I can, however hard, manage alone.
> ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

soulpotato said:


> In my experience, *there are few people who would really like some of us anyway, and you can really get hurt being your true self all over the place. Cost/risk is usually not worth the slim (vaguely possible) benefits. People only care for and "love" that which resembles them and provides what they want. It's conditional on performance and supply.*


 I believe this to be pretty much true in the real world... I am a pessimist by nature..and tentatively expect the worst in people... until they surprise me otherwise...but on the other hand...and maybe this doesn't make sense....as I don't make sense...it seems worth the risk to me... showing my vulnerable self... ..

This raises the odds to find that genuine "acceptance" ...even if the numbers are lower.... that FEW --that TRUE ...that we meet along our path... leaving lasting impressions that make us SMILE....we treasure those people... as they have made a difference ...

I feel we all need a safe circle of those how truly see us for who we are..and love us in spite of it , or because of our imperfections , even weaknesses.... as we all have them...


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Here is the best case I've seen as to why we should show our real true selves;

TED, Houston
Brene Brown: The power of vulnerability - YouTube

Turnera recommended this as I recall.

jld's points about self love and living for yourself are potentially transformational. Living true to one's self...as opposed to living with pretense to satisfy others, requires vulnerability and a willingness to forge boldly ahead. 

Living true to self=peace...and most of us can use more of that.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Cre8ify said:


> Here is the best case I've seen as to why we should show our real true selves;
> 
> TED, Houston
> Brene Brown: The power of vulnerability - YouTube
> ...


Turnera makes good recommendations - I've not had a chance to check all of them. I stopped to watch this, though, and it was very interesting, funny, and a bit painful. It'd be great to be one of those whole-hearted people. But that is very far from my origins and what I know. I spent years trying again to do the whole vulnerability and self-disclosure thing that I once attemped in childhood, because I do understand that connection to others gives purpose and meaning to life (though few people I've known seem to agree). It didn't go well - I forged boldly ahead into rejection, humiliation, abandonment, and serious damage. So now I've gone into reverse. Being true to myself only brought me peace in rare and limited circumstances.

JLD, sorry for the threadjack.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Cre8ify said:


> TED, Houston
> Brene Brown: The power of vulnerability - YouTube
> 
> Turnera recommended this as I recall.
> ...


This 20 min video is outstanding....Brene Brown, in her research on this subject... she needed a Therapist - to fight against what she DIDN'T want to believe about Vulnerability... she talks about that in this video... 

She is the bonafide "SHAME Researcher"....I was so impressed the 1st I seen this video....I bought her book...

The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are: ..one of the few I read to the end...it spells everything out so well.. 

...then I did a thread on it, so important for our marriages too...trying to outline some of what she spoke....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...r-its-pain-its-beauty-how-vulnerable-you.html

*** Brene learned this is how the "Whole hearted" live: 

*1.* *Courage *to be IMPERFECT
*2.* *Compassion *to be kind to ourselves 1st
*3*. *Connection *- as a result of Authenticity- the people let go of who they thought they should be -In order to BE who they are
*4. **Fully embraced Vulnerability*- that what makes them vulnerable makes them beautiful.

She Ended with this... "Let ourselves be seen, deeply seen, vulnerably seen, love with our whole hearts, even if no guarantee, Practice gratitude ...."can I love you THIS much"- "I'm just so Grateful" - and Believe we are "enough".


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

No problem, soulpotato. Like one poster said, it's more fun that way.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Given your origins soul potato you have some conflicts between what you know theoretically vs. what you have been beaten over the head with IRL. 

IMO we are always going somewhere as I don't believe we are ever truly standing still. Growth or retrenchment, we can choose everyday. Giant leaps or baby steps are of less consequence. Before you take any extraordinary risks and really trust it, keep your eyes open. You will see examples all around you in your friends, family, coworker, mentors...those lifted up by an inner peace.


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

jld said:


> Hi, uhaul. I hear your strong feelings on the subject of attraction, and I'm sorry my post upset you. Like you said, we have enough real problems to deal with, why deal with imaginary problems?
> 
> There was a thread a month or so ago where people were debating pretty heatedly how they felt about giving their partners permission to have sex with an unlikely person (celebrities).
> 
> ...


jld, your post did not upset me. I do have strong feelings about it, but I know people are different and we all see things much differently, especially in emotional areas like that one. I hope I didn't offend you. I didn't mean to.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

uhaul4mybaggage said:


> jld, your post did not upset me. I do have strong feelings about it, but I know people are different and we all see things much differently, especially in emotional areas like that one. I hope I didn't offend you. I didn't mean to.


It is always good to be transparent, uhaul. Yes, I am sensitive , but I can handle it. 

Again, it is just good to be transparent. We can learn the most from each other that way.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

jld said:


> My friend, lol, the first five or six pages of this thread are a meltdown in action.



What I mean is, are you crying, do you feel panicky? What do you feel and what does it look like?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Oldfaithful said:


> What I mean is, are you crying, do you feel panicky? What do you feel and what does it look like?


Not now, not since Sat am. But Fri and Sat were hard.

I feel attracted to other men sometimes, and it scares me, because before I met dh, I had an affair with my professor in college. They say your sexual past is the indicator of your sexual future. So I don't really trust myself.

We have a D/s lifestyle, but dh doesn't seem to appreciate it as much as I do. The rituals really bind me to him. But he doesn't take the kind of time for it that I need, because he does not need it.

So combine feeling atttracted to other men with a spouse who is often gone and a feeling that what could really help us is getting ignored, and there you have a panicked wife.

No disrespect, but did you read the first 6 pages or so?


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

jld said:


> Not now, not since Sat am. But Fri and Sat were hard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ha I did but I don't see a melt down. That's why I asked. To me a melt down is screaming and crying and throwing things and acting irrationally. Maybe we have different definitions of that word or maybe you are too hard on yourself. 
It's kind of an ambiguous word anyway. I just thought maybe there was more going on that you weren't saying. 
I think it's understandable to be upset. Being apart is very difficult, it's very hard on a marriage.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Oldfaithful said:


> Ha I did but I don't see a melt down. That's why I asked. To me a melt down is screaming and crying and throwing things and acting irrationally. Maybe we have different definitions of that word or maybe you are too hard on yourself.
> It's kind of an ambiguous word anyway. I just thought maybe there was more going on that you weren't saying.
> I think it's understandable to be upset. Being apart is very difficult, it's very hard on a marriage.


Oh, I was crying all right. And just in desperate need of dh's reassurance. That's why I felt better just hearing his voice. His presence just calms me.

But maybe we do define meltdown differently. And many people have told me I am too hard on myself.

But I want to be the best I can be, and that requires striving, I think. Always trying to do better.

Yes, it is hard to be apart at times. I used to do really well, but being on TAM has really challenged me and made me grow, and sometimes I need dh's support. It is hard when he is not here and I cannot reach him easily.

Thanks for the compassion.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

You miss him terribly and that's ok. I don't think I would be ok with being apart from my husband that much. 
I think biologically when we aren't with our spouses and getting our needs met we start to see other people as attractive. When our sex life slows down a little I start to notice other men more. 
Usually even someone who others would rate a 10, their attractiveness is intellectual to me. But when sex gets blah then I suddenly notice them. And it freaks me out! 
I can see how it would be disconcerting but you are talking to him about it and that means that you are trying to do the right thing.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Oldfaithful said:


> You miss him terribly and that's ok. I don't think I would be ok with being apart from my husband that much.
> I think biologically when we aren't with our spouses and getting our needs met we start to see other people as attractive. When our sex life slows down a little I start to notice other men more.
> Usually even someone who others would rate a 10, their attractiveness is intellectual to me. But when sex gets blah then I suddenly notice them. And it freaks me out!
> I can see how it would be disconcerting but you are talking to him about it and that means that you are trying to do the right thing.


I am really trying. I was pretty **** embarrassed to share all of this. But I felt desperate. I felt like I was such a bad person, and every time I would tell dh, he would just say it was no big deal, that he knew I was so good and would never do anything bad. It was so frustrating.

For me, I need emotional contact with dh. When he is travelling, and just wants to hear about practical matters when he calls, I feel unfulfilled. I feel like it's my duty to be a good wife, but I could not sustain that without a super strong emotional connection.

I know he loves me and is committed to me, but I need to hear it. My love language is words of affirmation. Dh does not seem to have a love language. He just gives love, it seems.

But yesterday I heard that he feels needed when he takes care of me, and that is like giving love to him, to let him feel needed. I never thought of that. Sometimes he polishes my shoes, or gives me his coat when I am cold, or asks me if I need to eat something if I am in a bad mood.  He is just naturally very fatherly.

I don't want to ask him to give up his job because he truly loves it. It fulfills him. He is looking for a foreign assignment, though, so that we can live together again.

I was really grateful for the help here on TAM, because Fri and Sat were tough days.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

He doesn't do them because he's fatherly - he does them because he's a gentleman. 

We need to reset expectations to "across the pond" mode


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

jdl, what is your sign? I'm a cancer, and Friday was a valentines day with a full moon and no valentine (at least for me, and yours was out of town...) I had my own lil breakdown, too. You have lots of stuff going on at a very emotional time. Be kind to yourself.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi, uhaul. I am Taurus.

Dh forgot VD, but I was not expecting him to remember it. He does other things to show he loves me. But sometimes I need him more, and he is not available. But FW and AP got it through to him that he needs to be available, and when he comes home we need to set up a plan for how to deal with my frustrations. I did not get married to feel all alone.

Sorry you felt bad on VD, uhaul. I think we _both_ need to be kind to ourselves.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> He doesn't do them because he's fatherly - he does them because he's a gentleman.
> 
> We need to reset expectations to "across the pond" mode


But his dad does not do those things for his mom, john. And my dad did not do those things for my mom. I think both of them expected their wives to take care of _them._ Dh takes care of _me._

Have you ever taken a jacket for your wife because you knew she might get cold, even thought she is assuring you she will be fine? Now, he did tell me it was so his own jacket would be available for him if _he_ got cold. 

John, I think you are thinking of all the ways you care for your wife, and to you, that is not fatherly. We may just have different names for it. I am guessing you just don't like to think of yourself as a father to your wife; is that right?

It doesn't mean dh and I don't have a husband/wife sex life. I think all the love and assurance dh provides makes me feel very safe and wanting to give to him. And maybe I just enjoy being physically intimate. But I think that loving, supportive atmosphere contributes, as well.

Thanks for your comment, john.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

jld said:


> Dh forgot VD, but I was not expecting him to remember it. He does other things to show he loves me.


This strikes me as being really sad.  How could he forget, especially being away so much? He should remember it. I'd have been crushed if I were you. Unless Vday is totally unimportant to you?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> This strikes me as being really sad.  How could he forget, especially being away so much? He should remember it. I'd have been crushed if I were you. Unless Vday is totally unimportant to you?


Lol! I know it should be, blush, but I think, deep down inside, it isn't. 

You know how some girls put a lot of emphasis on the wedding? But then forget about the marriage? Well, we spent $500 total on our wedding. That tells you something about me.

Dh's strength is that he carries me. Even though he can be neglectful, I don't really think it is intentional. He is not perfect; he is selfish like everyone else. But I think he is less selfish. And usually, when he is called on it, he is willing to consider changing.

I need a little strictness in a man, a little independence. I need to know I cannot topple him with my emotions or threaten him with my intellect. This kind of man is not necessarily one who is going to do much for holidays, or even remember them. 

I guess we all have ways of compensating.

Also, in case you have not guessed, we are a bit unconventional. Or I am, at least. "Free spirit," anyone? Life is more fun that way.

ETA: I have to admit, soul, there have been times in the past that I have felt hurt by dh's indifference to certain cultural norms. But I really do respect dh, and he earned that respect. He does so many good things, things that are much harder than buying me a dozen red roses, that I guess I have learned to overlook his forgetting about me in some ways. 

For now.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, I guess it's kind of like with me and my partner: that person does things for you and works for you, but it might not be immediately apparent from the outside, or easy for others to understand. There are always flaws.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> Yeah, I guess it's kind of like with me and my partner: that person does things for you and works for you, but it might not be immediately apparent from the outside, or easy for others to understand. There are always flaws.


That is why it is so hard to accurately describe relationships, or why there seem to be so many contradictions. People are complex, and their dealings with one another are going to be complex.


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## Happyquest (Apr 21, 2009)

I am done with Valentines day It ends up, in one of the other, in disappointment. Everytime I try to do something it ends up backfiring on me. It comes with such high expectations that it always leaves someone feeling disappointed. I think it was a holiday created for the candy card and flower industry.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

One bad VD rejection and the day is nothing but a trigger. Flowers and a guarded card is as far as I can go.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/49813-your-story-sexual-rejection-2.html#post863457


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

I have always disliked Valentines Day, even when I was in good relationships. I don't like pressure to perform, on me or him. i like things like that to be organic and spontaneous.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi, Happyquest, Cre8ify, and uhaul. Another disappointing VD, huh?

I lived for a while in Mexico, and there they celebrate it as the Day of Love and Friendship. That takes some of the pressure off, I think.

I don't put a lot of stock in holidays, because of that pressure issue. I like birthdays, though.


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## StayInIt (Jul 27, 2012)

jld said:


> Nobody knows where kinks come from, Lyris. It could be genetic, it could be environmental.
> 
> 
> People older than a certain were likely to have been slapped or spanked. They do not all have kinks.


 I am writing to you out of solidarity and compassion. I am a military spouse so I know the long distance thing pretty well. I cared for my hateful, demented and failing grandma on my own for years, so I understand shoring up the family during the hardest of times. I think you are badass for what you have accomplished, but I think you need to put immediate work in on yourself because you sound overwhelmed, stressed and all over the map. Burn out is real and can be catastrophic. Sometimes, the most draining aspect of our lives can be the shadow part and the degree to which we ignore or suppress it. Yours is considerable. 

I think you need to see a therapist who works with CSA as soon as possible and as someone mentioned, consider different schooling options for your kids. I went to a wonderful alternative public school that had an emphasis on self directed experiential learning- maybe there is something similar in your area? I think you will need space, help and time to heal and an integrated, functioning woman, wife and mother is the best gift your could ever give your family, yourself included.

Kinks aren't an act of god, babe. I totally call BS on that. They are a part that your psychosexual make up. Some of what makes you tick was formed as an abused child. Wouldn't it make sense that since your were abused in a sexual way, your sexuality would been influenced by that? 

And anyway, the kinks aren't the issue. The issue is that your husband is in no way qualified to be your therapist. He loves you better than anyone on earth, I would wager, but he is not a trained psychologist. You are a dedicated, caring and loyal woman who is doing a kickass job and you had a very damaging childhood that is affecting your ability to cope as a grown woman. He can love you the best way he knows how and strive to be the best partner he can be, but is not equipped to help you sort out those undying issues. 

You are being shown a part of yourself that needs attention to heal. Of course your partner will be a part of that process, but you have to get professional help. You deserve it and since so much is asked of you, you have to function as best as you can. Let me ask you, can you afford to let underlying issues eat up your energy? You come across so fiery -are you burning hot and clean or smoky and sputtering? You mentioned regressing to that little 5 year old girl- how can the grown up you help her feel safe so she doesn't wreak havock on your grown up life? 

No one the right to judge how people reconcile each other's sexuality to one another so long as its between consenting adults. That doesn't mean it's easy or straightforward because abuse and trauma leave its mark. There is a lot to untangle here, but then again, who doesn't have some pruning to do? The best part of getting rid of dead growth is making room for the new. Who knows what your discover about your sexuality after a period of healing? Don't you owe it to yourself to find out?


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I was pointed to this thread and I read all of it.

I find it all very interesting and it certainly does give an insight to the many who have posted here.

I will confess...I don't understand much of it...or I should say I don't relate to much of it. But it does help to see where JLD is coming from and I understand her posts a bit better.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

What is kink?

Yes, I obviously know what kinky is but what do other people view as kink?

One persons kinky is another persons run of the mill.

Are we talking gags, gimp suits, bondage, flagellation etc?

Kinky could be cucking.

I think we are fairly vanilla, we use some toys. We do some dress up, and as I've mentioned before she likes to 'aim' when I go to the loo.
I suppose the most kinky we go is public/outdoors sex.

She has even sat on my lap, reached around, unzipped me and got me to cum on her back or enter her while in a room full of people.

Hasten to add this is in a house party environment and she is wearing clothing that disguises what we are doing.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I think it was defined earlier in this thread. 


My guess is each of us has a certain amount of "kink" in our sexual behavior...and as long as both partners agree...I say to each his own.

I certainly am not going to start listing our "kinks"
It could mean impeachment for Mr. Adams....


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I think it was defined earlier in this thread.
> 
> 
> My guess is each of us has a certain amount of "kink" in our sexual behavior...and as long as both partners agree...I say to each his own.
> ...


Ah!

I looked briefly but couldn't see what was defined as kink.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

Well having read all 15 pages...I cannot remember what page it was on...lol and I think it may have been AP who defined it?

I will go back and copy paste it....


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## NotTooSure (Jan 13, 2014)

WyshIknew said:


> I looked briefly but couldn't see what was defined as kink.


I have not read all 15 pages either, but based on the OP I thought they were referring to a submissive relationship.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

NotTooSure said:


> I have not read all 15 pages either, but based on the OP I thought they were referring to a submissive relationship.


That is what I recall too.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

that was what I read as well...it wasn't about "kinky" sexual acts...it was about a lfestyle


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Well having read all 15 pages...I cannot remember what page it was on...lol and I think it may have been AP who defined it?
> 
> I will go back and copy paste it....


Thanks.

But I still think kink is relative. So one persons definition of kink will differ from anothers.

My definition is "Any activity that involves sexual gratification for one or more partners that differs from missionary position intercourse."


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

and in that case "most" of us are kinky I guess

But this thread pertained to a total lifestyle...not sexual behavior. 

Maybe JLD will come back and give us a definition since she is the OP


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Jld,

I never read this thread before today. TAM is like a voluminous cave with 10,000 years of guano. Put an idea in it and it may grow.

This must be your most personal thread. It takes some people a long time before they post things close to the heart. It took me months. 

I agree with the poster who suggest skydiving. The rush that you get from scuba diving, wall climbing, etc will give you the stimulation you seek. Maybe you can take a figure drawing class. Whatever kink you have is also important. But you can take the edge off while you work on it.

You mentioned the anger of some men's rights groups. For sure there are angry people around. They are not the majority. Some grievances are real and some are real but exaggerated. It is interesting some of our conservative posters note that Black Americans need to give the victim chair to move forward. Do men also need to quit it? And fem-nazis, too.

Did you ever watch the movie the Night Porter?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hers is if I remember correctly, akin to D/s. Her H is "Daddy".



> We don't have a normal husband/wife relationship. Dh really is the dad I always wanted, and that is why you hear the hero worship, the childlike adoration, in my posts. I had a terrible relationship with my dad growing up, and was just so scared of him. When I met dh, and then when we got together, yes he was and is a mate, but he is also a father.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> and in that case "most" of us are kinky I guess
> 
> But this thread pertained to a total lifestyle...not sexual behavior.
> 
> Maybe JLD will come back and give us a definition since she is the OP


Yes, reading further I think this is so.

If she merely wants a dominant man who will tell her what to do, order her about etc then I don't regard that as a kink personally.

If she is talking the full Dom/sub routine, the master/slave type thing with all the bondage etc then yes that is a kink.

If it is merely wanting hubby to throw her on the bed, pull her knickers off and ravish her then again not really a kink to me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Jld,
> 
> I never read this thread before today. TAM is like a voluminous cave with 10,000 years of guano. Put an idea in it and it may grow.
> 
> This must be your most personal thread. It takes some people a long time before they post things close to the heart. It took me months.


This thread came up for various reasons. TAM is like intensive therapy, they say. Much of my frustration has been resolved since the thread. Dh has stepped up, and I have relaxed. 

I am an intense, emotional woman, and just felt a need that day for support. I also think that the more transparent we are, the more we learn, and the more others learn, too. 

It certainly is each person's choice what they share, though. I am not sure how comfortable I feel sharing more about our lifestyle. 

I will tell you, though, I cannot imagine a different lifestyle, not for me. Dh meets my very deepest emotional needs. And he told me he feels deeply, deeply respected by me. That may be why he is not threatened by my emotional outbursts, or really anything else about me. 

He holds me in the palm of his hand. What is there to be afraid of?


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

JLd...I think we are asking for a definition of KINK. Not necessarily the intimate details...those are private. 

Can you give us your definition?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> JLd...I think we are asking for a definition of KINK. Not necessarily the intimate details...those are private.
> 
> Can you give us your definition?


That is such a good question, Mrs. Adams. I am not really sure I have an accurate definition. I think FW is pretty much the queen of kink here. She is really the person to ask. 

But I guess to me, anything not vanilla (mainstream, standard accepted practice, equal marriage, total equality, total consent) would be kink.

I know, not helpful, not very expert. Sorry.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

Well thank you....maybe FW will chime in.

So to you...kink is indeed a lifestyle...which could also include sexual acts or behavior...but not necessarily?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

jld said:


> That is such a good question, Mrs. Adams. I am not really sure I have an accurate definition. I think FW is pretty much the queen of kink here. She is really the person to ask.
> 
> But I guess to me, anything not vanilla (mainstream, standard accepted practice, equal marriage, total equality, total consent) would be kink.
> 
> I know, not helpful, not very expert. Sorry.


So more or less my definition from earlier then?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> So more or less my definition from earlier then?


You said it is anybody's definition? I think that is probably the reality, whatever the "official" definition.

You know when you're kinky, I think. You just _know._


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Well thank you....maybe FW will chime in.
> 
> So to you...kink is indeed a lifestyle...which could also include sexual acts or behavior...but not necessarily?


Lol, FW, again, is the person to ask. 

I guess you know when you are _different._ And it seems so normal to you, but seems to freak other people out. 

And you wonder how they can stand living with so many rules, and having to read so many marriage books, and everything seems to be a negotiation, and everybody has to be so careful about what they say and do. It's like the whole thing is so **** fragile.

And the men just seem so weak. And their wives seem to have to work so hard to protect them. 

And it looks so tiring, having to live like that. And you wonder how the women manage it, along with raising the kids and caring for the house, and probably working full-time.

And if you just say that, you are vilified. Even when it is your honest feeling, and you feel bad for them, and wish you could lighten their load. You just think, gee, it could be so different. So much easier.

But maybe it can't.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

No...you are the person to ask..I am not asking about the general public...I am asking for you personally.

Kink is a lifestyle...that can include sexual acts...but not necessarily?

And if it is normal for you...why do you consider it kink?

My sexual behavior is normal to me...but you may not think so. I would not box myself into a definition of "kink".

Do you see what I am getting at?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think it is as Wysh said, defined differently by everyone. 

I just don't feel comfortable going further with this, Mrs. Adams. At least not right now. I'm sorry. 

I hope FW can give a clear definition of kink. I would be interested, too.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I understand. Thank you. 

Fw cannot define your kink for you. Only you can.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You would be interested in knowing what your own relationship is by someone else's definition and not yours?

JLD that is very odd. 

Your kink, as you have previously stated, is that you’re in a Dom/Sub “daddy/father” / "little girl" relationship with your husband. I don't see why you can't just come out and say it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

jld said:


> Okay, I am back in my adult state now. I was regressing a lot, and that's what you see on this thread. Sometimes jld is five years old, and Daddy is gone, and it's very scary. And she is looking for him, needing him, but he is not there. That's the crux of it, weighlifter, if you must know.
> 
> We don't have a normal husband/wife relationship. Dh really is the dad I always wanted, and that is why you hear the hero worship, the childlike adoration, in my posts. I had a terrible relationship with my dad growing up, and was just so scared of him. When I met dh, and then when we got together, yes he was and is a mate, but he is also a father. He usually does care for me, but sometimes he gets lax, or I am not clear, and **** happens.
> 
> ...


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

Thank you...that about sums it up

This could be wayyy to deep for me


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Thank you...that about sums it up
> 
> This could be wayyy to deep for me


I'm thinking it's way too deep for most of tam.it's something that should definitely be discussed during intense therapy sessions possibly involving therapists from many backgrounds.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

Ok...I am pretty open minded...and accepting of most things...but I am beyond lost on this one.

If Jld is the child sometimes and her husband is the daddy...all the time

Which one fvcks the daddy?
The mommy or the little girl?

Is this like multiple personality disorder? Or something entirely different?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Ok...I am pretty open minded...and accepting of most things...but I am beyond lost on this one.
> 
> If Jld is the child sometimes and her husband is the daddy...all the time
> 
> ...


Well I'm sure JLD can answer for themselves but.....

I wonder if it is more that the little girl in her needs the reassurance of a Daddy, a protector?

And the adult state needs the sexual, husband side of her partner?


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I am all for dressing up for my husband...but this gives new meaning to schoolgirl....short skirt and knee socks....


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> Well I'm sure JLD can answer for themselves but.....
> 
> I wonder if it is more that the little girl in her needs the reassurance of a Daddy, a protector?
> 
> And the adult state needs the sexual, husband side of her partner?


Yeah, that's probably a way of describing it. He meets my emotional needs on a very, very deep level. And you would not know the relationship we have on the surface. It is just very harmonious.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Holy sh!t the judgements are flying under the colors of "understanding."

Jelly beans, leave JLD the fvck alone! I've about had it with you and your sniping in the other thread and now in this thread. If you've got a beef with JLD grow a set of balls and come out with it! If you can't do that, keep you snippy comments to yourself!

And if you Jelly Bean and you Scarlett Begonias think you are cleverly hiding your personal attacks against JLD you are sadly mistaken!

Take your judgments elsewhere or contribute to the atmosphere of understanding and acceptance that JLD is trying to promote!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You will never understand the depth and breadth of JLD's harmonious marriage because you don't understand and don't try to understand who they are, where they come from, how they got here, or where they're going.

Frankly, I think it's a startling testament to JLD's compassion and confidence that she is even bothering to answer your questions and hasn't simply deleted the whole thread.

If I tried to open myself to understanding and was met with the vitriol and angry judgments JLD has been met with, I'd be long gone from this place.

I am disgusted by some of the people here right now. Better sign off before I say something ban worthy!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Holy sh!t the judgements are flying under the colors of "understanding."
> 
> Jelly beans, leave JLD the fvck alone! I've about had it with you and your sniping in the other thread and now in this thread. If you've got a beef with JLD grow a set of balls and come out with it! If you can't do that, keep you snippy comments to yourself!
> 
> ...


I'm not hiding anything,Anon. I really think she needs professional help and I stated that plainly. Get over your need to defend her like she's some helpless lamb. Where were you when she was badgering the living sh*t out of me about my husband's lifestyle and diet?? 
If she can post controversial borderline baiting things all over tam,she can deal with the fall out that occurs when people aren't on board with her views. I really like you but you go waaaay too far insisting on this chick's innocence constantly. You're not her white knight.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

I think it is fine to have kinks in your relationship as long as both parties agree. 

That said I don't understand most of it. They don't interest me, but I find no judgement for people who have them and enjoy them.

What I do worry about in JLD's particular case is how healthy this much co-dependency is. She worships the ground he walks on, and is lost without him. I just don't think it is good emotionally or mentally to put that much pressure and faith on someone. 

I think you are a very sweet person JLD. But just reading this thread I worry for you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Ok...I am pretty open minded...and accepting of most things...but I am beyond lost on this one.
> 
> If Jld is the child sometimes and her husband is the daddy...all the time
> 
> ...


It's _kink._ Unless FW says it isn't. 

I have talked extensively to my therapist about it. She seems intrigued. She seems to feel if it is meeting my needs, and dh is okay with it, then it's fine. 

It's basically a Win/Win. I feel deeply loved, and dh feels deeply respected.

And we are not the only people who live this way, as many on Fetlife can attest.

I can't live a vanilla lifestyle, MJA. And I don't wear costumes. It's not a bedroom drama. I live this way. And I love it!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm not hiding anything,Anon. I really think she needs professional help and I stated that plainly. Get over your need to defend her like she's some helpless lamb. Where were you when she was badgering the living sh*t out of me about my husband's lifestyle and diet??
> If she can post controversial borderline baiting things all over tam,she can deal with the fall out that occurs when people aren't on board with her views. I really like you but you go waaaay too far insisting on this chick's innocence constantly. You're not her white knight.


No, but she is mine. She has taught me a lot of about REAL strength. Not fake strength where you pretend things don't hurt you, or pretend things don't upset you as you soldier on. But real emotional vulnerability where you put your real authentic self out there, warts and all and lay yourself open to criticism for daring to embrace how very different you are from everyone else.

Everyone keeps saying how she needs therapy, she needs help... Why? Being JLD works for JLD and for her husband and kids. Therapy is supposed to teach us to cope with the world so that we can reach our potential, the person we were meant to be before the baggage of life began to hold us down and keep us back.

I don't see JLD as being held down (at least no in a way she doesn't totally dig ) and I don't see her being held back.

To me she is fearless in her authenticity and I completely dig that!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> No, but she is mine. She has taught me a lot of about REAL strength. Not fake strength where you pretend things don't hurt you, or pretend things don't upset you as you soldier on. But real emotional vulnerability where you put your real authentic self out there, warts and all and lay yourself open to criticism for daring to embrace how very different you are from everyone else.
> 
> Everyone keeps saying how she needs therapy, she needs help... Why? Being JLD works for JLD and for her husband and kids. Therapy is supposed to teach us to cope with the world so that we can reach our potential, the person we were meant to be before the baggage of life began to hold us down and keep us back.
> 
> ...


I'm glad she has taught you something you can use in your life.There is definite value in being your true self and not letting fear hold you down.
There is a point where these things go to far though. When she starts talking about splitting into a little girl,it becomes clear there's something not resolved inside of her and she should be receiving guidance. I know she's older than me but if she was my daughter I would say that exact things. It isn't a personal attack on her,it's what I would say to ANY poster who says what she has said.

ETA with that said, I'll take a walk. Like I said,I like you and I really don't want you upset over this or feeling like jld has been cornered.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I like you two SB. You're funny as hell and I enjoy your posts. Plus, we both love rescue dogs!


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

This would probably be an awkward time to bring up that my idea of "kink" is to ask my wife to wear one of those old-fasioned nurse's uniforms. Or playing the Naughty Librarian game.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm glad she has taught you something you can use in your life.There is definite value in being your true self and not letting fear hold you down.
> There is a point where these things go to far though. When she starts talking about splitting into a little girl,it becomes clear there's something not resolved inside of her and she should be receiving guidance. *I know she's older than me but if she was my daughter I would say that exact things.* It isn't a personal attack on her,it's what I would say to ANY poster who says what she has said.
> 
> ETA with that said, I'll take a walk. Like I said,I like you and I really don't want you upset over this or feeling like jld has been cornered.


And that is why I said what I said about the vegan diet to _you._

When we care about people, we speak up. When we don't care, we are quiet. 

I read some testimonies about the vegan diet helping quickly with ED. When I saw the pain you were in about your husband's problem, and especially considering how young you are, I thought I could help.

You seem like a strong-willed person, SB, and these are the kind of people, that once they _do_ try something, will stick with it to keep getting the benefits. But the trick is to get them to try it.

I pushed too much. And I am sorry.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

GTdad said:


> This would probably be an awkward time to bring up that my idea of "kink" is to ask my wife to wear one of those old-fasioned nurse's uniforms. Or playing the Naughty Librarian game.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

jld said:


> It's _kink._ Unless FW says it isn't.
> 
> I have talked extensively to my therapist about it. She seems intrigued. She seems to feel if it is meeting my needs, and dh is okay with it, then it's fine.
> 
> ...



do not misunderstand me...I am making no judgement call here. I am truthfully trying to understand you and your lifestyle. Like I said...what is normal to me may not be normal to you. I am trying to get a grasp on your lifestyle....especially since you love it! That's why I asked specifically is it a lifestyle or a sexual preference and you said FW would have to answer. If it is a lifestyle that is not played out in the bedroom then it is different than what I thought it was.

and I am not even sure what "vanilla" lifestyle is. That's another definition that I think is subject to interpretation.

I admire your strength to be able to post how you really feel. I may not agree with it...but it is certainly your right to live it and post it.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm going to chime in here, too. For some reason I cannot quite put my finger on, jld really has made an impression with a subset of posters here on TAM. Some favorably, some not. You either "get" her, or you don't. 

I "get" her (I think.) At first I was a little exasperated, I think, but her ways and her ideas have grown on me, and have actually helped me make some positive changes in my marriage. I don't agree with her all the time, but nor do I find her points of view to be offensive. 

I'm continually fascinated by the way she seems to push some people to the edge of batsh!t frothing crazy. I guess perhaps it's her intrepid broaching of some pretty weighty subjects, and of her ability to discuss the intensely uncomfortable with child like curiosity and ever-evolving views. But I just don't understand why folks who don't like her feel the need to poke at her. 

I also think a lot of people don't quite comprehend the level of transparency jld is putting forth here. If it's in her head, she'll share it. Who else among us does that? I'd rather die than reveal some of my innermost thoughts as jld has done, but she's taught me that I can be more emotionally forthcoming with my husband, and she's shown me ways to talk to him so that he can respond to the increased intimacy in a way that deepens my love and trust for him beyond measure. 

I get that some folks thinks she's not real (a troll). I don't think she is, but even if I was proven wrong tomorrow, I wouldn't consider the time I've spent reading and participating on her threads as wasted.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks, MJA.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm learning a lot from you, too, GettingIt. 

And I really, truly appreciate your patience with me.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

I also wanted to state the reason why I have a problem with this particular kink...

My best friend was raped as a kid, (not by her father) but her father was a jerk and was not the father she needed.

She got into a long term relationship with the very man who raped her who was over twice her age, and he was her "daddy." While she didn't go as far as calling him that like JLD does, she had the same co-dependency. She too worshiped him, and sang his praises even though he molested her and raped her beginning when she was only 12 for years and years. They were engaged to get married, and she admitted to me that she was trying to get the daddy she never had.

(I know JLD, that you husband isn't raping you. I'm just sharing my own story.)

Eventually she got out of that mess when her parents felt their relationship was uncomfortable and shipped her across the world to therapy, they did not know at the time about the rape, just that it was odd that a young girl hung so much on a man.

But in the years following she has hopped from one horrible guy to the next. Trying to fill the void that her real father never gave her. 

I have sat on the sidelines and watched her destroy her life again and again. I've tried everything in my power, but I can't help her. She has been in counseling for years, and while she is "improved" she still has the same co-dependency on every guy she meets, and has many unhealthy relationships.

I pray everyday for her that she will find a good man and get settled before she completely ruins her life. I fear greatly for her. It tears me apart because we grew up together. I knew her before all of this happened, and I feel her slipping away from me. 

This story might not relate to your JLD. But I can see similarities in you two in the way you act and how you feel about your men. It hurts me deeply.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Obviously you JLD won't have the same issues as my friend because you are already married to a good man who understands your kink and is willing to participate. You are very lucky.

But I have still witnessed how that kind of relationship can very damaging to a person. I wish you the best!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Obviously you JLD won't have the same issues as my friend because you are already married to a good man who understands your kink and is willing to participate. You are very lucky.
> 
> But I have still witnessed how that kind of relationship can very damaging to a person. I wish you the best!


Thanks, TCW. And I am very sorry for your friend. 

I know that some men take advantage of vulnerable women. I have seen this countless times in my life, and I am sensitive to it. I truly believe it is better to be alone than with a man who does not truly love you.

I want to help women to be more confident in themselves, and to love themselves. And I think if more men were secure in themselves, truly secure, they, too would be happier. 

I just see so many women looking to their husbands for support, and if he is not strong, he really cannot provide it. And there does seem to be something in nature that makes a lot of women lean on their men.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

JLD...You do understand of course that if you ask others to be tolerant of your viewpoints , it must be reciprocated. That means that you have to be as tolerant of their beliefs as they are of yours.

What you just stated makes it sound very much like...your way is the best way...and while that may be true for you...it is not necessarily the way for me.

My husband is just the way I like him...you may not think he is strong like your man but he is certainly strong enough for me....and while you just stated that you are confident...I find it VERY hard to picture a woman who believes her husband is daddy...is confident. In my mind...it is quite the contrary. You are making the assumption that others...are not as confident and strong and secure as you and your husband. That is a dangerous path to take.

You see..I am not trying to preach to you that your way is wrong. I am willing to say that if you are fulfilled...GREAT!

On the other hand....I am fulfilled MY WAY. So you do not need to save me and make my life happier.

This may have sounded more harsh than I intended it to be. My husband is not here to help me "soften" it. He is the one who is politically correct.....


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> I just see so many women looking to their husbands for support, and if he is not strong, he really cannot provide it. And there does seem to be something in nature that makes a lot of women lean on their men.



I provide plenty of support to my wife and a lot of good that has done to me and to our marriage tho.

Ironically one of my wife's main attraction points was her independence, but post wedding cake even in her good days she decided that independence was overrated...


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Holy sh!t the judgements are flying under the colors of "understanding."
> 
> *Jelly beans, leave JLD the fvck alone*! I've about had it with you and your sniping in the other thread and now in this thread. If you've got a beef with JLD grow a set of balls and come out with it! If you can't do that, keep you snippy comments to yourself!
> 
> *And if you Jelly Bean and you Scarlett Begonias think you are cleverly hiding your personal attacks against JLD you are sadly mistaken!*


Omg. Anon. Did someone piss in your cheerios? How about you leave my comment "the fvck alone." You seem to be getting really upset just from me posting a quote that JLD made herself. Other people were asking about what her kink is and her own words answer it. 

I don't need to "grow a set of balls." Perhaps you need to "calm down." I have no issue telling JLD that I think her kink is WEIRD that I think it probably relates to her childhood and that the inner goddess/childlike stuff is strange to me and that I personally am not into it nor do I think discussing her lifestyle with her daughter are something I'd recommend anyone to do. Not everyone thinks that is cool. And I've already said so in this thread, way before you posted. (As many others have). JLD is welcome to discuss with me anything she wants. I don't even know why I'm commenting on this being that she never even said she was offended by me re-posting her quote. 

I get that JLD is your friend and maybe you identify with that lifestyle too but if you are going to sit here and cherry pick each comment made her way or each quote said at her that doesn't agree with her in this or another thread, then you are going to be very busy. 

"Judgements posted as 'understanding." I don't get where you are saying that I posted I was being understanding. I posted two things: her kink and her quote. 



Anon Pink said:


> Take your judgments elsewhere or contribute to the atmosphere of understanding and acceptance that JLD is trying to promote!


Oh you mean like her "judgments" and understanding" in the other thread about how men who wouldn't raise an child who wasn't their own/the result of an affair are somehow less of a man and the condescending comments about how maybe they have no compassion or forgiveness?

Right. 



Anon Pink said:


> Frankly, I think it's a startling testament to JLD's compassion and confidence that she is even bothering to answer your questions and hasn't simply deleted the whole thread.
> 
> I am disgusted by some of the people here right now. Better sign off before I say something ban worthy!


You're disgusted? By what? She posted a thread titled KINK on an open forum. People are going to respond. That is the entire point of posting a thread topic. And with the subject matter, to think people wouldn't respond at all is reaching. 

It always amazes me when folks posts threads and then get upset when they hear things they don't like/folks who disagree with them.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Holy sh!t the judgements are flying under the colors of "understanding."
> 
> Jelly beans, leave JLD the fvck alone! I've about had it with you and your sniping in the other thread and now in this thread. If you've got a beef with JLD grow a set of balls and come out with it! If you can't do that, keep you snippy comments to yourself!
> 
> ...


Bullsh*t. Jld relentlessly judges men who don't stand there and take abuse from their wives as insecure and unmanly. She's said it over and over again. She's told very reasonable male posters they sound controlling for asserting personal boundaries. She's referred to me, by name, in the private section as obviously being unhappy in my life because I disagreed with her and reported a thread of hers which was against guidelines. She referred to people who found the things she posted in this thread troubling as "church ladies" in a thread in the Private section. She hammered ScarletBegonias in a very personal thread despite being asked politely several times to stop. 

Jld judges and condemns and uses subtle put-downs to undercut reasonable disagreement all the time. It's unpleasant and underhand and the opposite of transparent.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I'm not sure I would generalize there. My own behavior vis a vis my situation has not been all that stellar as far as winning Good Housekeeping Husband of the Year Award (drastic measures for drastic times) but I don't recall too many fellow posters raining on my parade, the one in question included. Even in cases where I have disagreed with the TAM common wisdom I don't recall anyone being too hard on me (the guy with the screaming wife in car video thread comes to mind)

Each of us has a unique perspective from our own experiences, and that's that. If someone expects to be offended in a thread, they likely will be offended (as judged by themselves).


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> JLD...You do understand of course that if you ask others to be tolerant of your viewpoints , it must be reciprocated. That means that you have to be as tolerant of their beliefs as they are of yours.
> 
> What you just stated makes it sound very much like...your way is the best way...and while that may be true for you...it is not necessarily the way for me.
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity, where did I say I was confident?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> I provide plenty of support to my wife and a lot of good that has done to me and to our marriage tho.
> 
> Ironically one of my wife's main attraction points was her independence, but post wedding cake even in her good days she decided that independence was overrated...


But would it have been even worse if you had not provided support?


----------



## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

jld said:


> Thanks, TCW. And I am very sorry for your friend.
> 
> I know that some men take advantage of vulnerable women. I have seen this countless times in my life, and I am sensitive to it. I truly believe it is better to be alone than with a man who does not truly love you.
> 
> ...



Did I misread what you said here? By stating that you want to help others achieve what you obviously have?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Did I misread what you said here? By stating that you want to help others achieve what you obviously have?


I don't think of myself as being confident. But I know women even less confident than myself. I see them hurting, and I don't want that for them. I think if they felt more loved, and more valued, they would make healthier choices.

I have become more confident since being on TAM, though. The aggressive posts just don't bother me as much. More and more I see them as a reflection of the poster, a revelation of his or her character, than anything about me.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, I guess.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, there's support and there's support.

Spicing up a PowerPoint presentation of hers with some nice animations is support. Spending 2 hours discussing her relatives' inheritance power grab is support. But more often than not I run into issues with her not doing stuff for her own good. But if I don't do them she won't. Or she will do them in such a way that it will require undoing and redoing because she is not MINDFUL whim she doing a lot of things.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Sure. But keeping her together benefits you. My keeping my husband happy and my children on track benefits me. Often when we do the right thing, it benefits a lot of people in a lot of ways.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

We all know women less confident than ourselves...and I don't think of myself as confident either....but others see me that way.

We all hurt at one time or another...for many reasons. It is presumptuous to over analyze others. How can I know how much you are loved? How do I know how much you are valued? Simply...I can't possibly. We can have very good intentions to "help" others....and I truly believe you are compassionate and want to help others JLD...I do not doubt it for a second. 

I am very happy for you and the path you have chosen. If it gives you what you desire then it is perfect for you.

My only apprehension is that you come across belittling to those who disagree and for the life of me...I can't figure out how you do it...because I don't believe it is intentional. So you leave me in a quandary...lol

Yes...What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Life is one big lesson. It doesn't come with instructions...we just do the best we can with the hands we have been given.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> Sure. But keeping her together benefits you. My keeping my husband happy and my children on track benefits me. Often when we do the right thing, it benefits a lot of people in a lot of ways.



Liberal Alert :lol:

A lot of people don't see it that way. To me fixing a dozen slides' worth of animated bunnies is half an hour that I would have wasted elsewhere. Maybe she'll appreciate it, maybe not. Maybe she'll catch the eye of some exec and get a promotion....

Look at it from a cost benefit analysis viewpoint. 

My father worked in politics for two decades after he retired and did a lot of good to people. After mom passed away I don't think he ever paid for a meal again, everyone absolutely loved the guy. I don't expect this level response from my wife - good marriage or bad - but there are times where doing the right thing is good.

Some people are innately good.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Ok apparently I was entirely wrong about the definition of your D/s lifestyle in the other thread.

Now that I know what I'm talking about I'm sure my advice won't be nearly as good.


I don't know much about the day to day lifestyle of your relationship defined by the DD/LG atmosphere you explain here so if my assumptions are wrong please correct me.

Distance in any relationship is a hazard to the emotional connection between lovers.
It would seem to me that within the DD/LG relationship you have with your husband the hazards/problems created by distance would be multiplied exponentially due to the power imbalance necessary for such a relationship.

You "need" him and his absence would seem to me to be far more detrimental to you than it would be to a person in a more traditional relationship.

I would advise that your husband spend a greater amount of effort in giving you attention than he normally might if he were home all the time.
This would mean more texting, more Skyping, and more of any type of contact possible in your situation.

This of course won't fix the problem but nothing besides his presence will "fix" the problem and at this time that doesn't seem possible due to his job and your economic needs.

However, do you think if your husband were to increase the amount of attention he gives you to the best of his abilities it might alleviate some of your distress?

Or maybe I'm way off base, forgive me if I am.
I'm learning here.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

That was sweet, tacoma. Thank you. 

Sure, more attention is always appreciated. More affection, too. And he did take a week of vacation last month and we went to CA for a few days.

I am pretty communicative with him. He doesn't always have much time to speak with me, though, due to all his travel and just working long hours. 

The thing is, I really respect his work ethic. There are just so many things I respect about him, tacoma. And when a woman respects her man, that just naturally leads to her loving him, too.

He just called! Gotta go!

And thanks again.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Let's not get carried away with the respect here. My wife is awed by my landscaping, PowerPoint, proof reading, culinary, DIY, leadership, fashion choices, and many other talents. Respect, well, let's just say that Aretha Franklin will be providing rain checks...

Things are looking better. I got a selfie of my wife today in a rather revealing fashionable but probably not corporate wear outfit. Before I could get my hopes up the next text message said "I have a meeting with some managers from India, is this outfit modest or shows too much skin?"

I responded it was fine :rofl: The meeting went well and she received much attention from the visiting dignitaries... She was quite happy.

Support, hmmm.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

(random question of the day)

john...is your wife hot?


----------



## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> (random question of the day)
> 
> john...is your wife hot?


:rofl:


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> (random question of the day)
> 
> john...is your wife hot?



Actually yes. 5 feet 8, 125 pounds, darker skin, olive/yellow Central Asian look, short dark hair, no wrinkles, and overall look close to Kris Jenner  lifelong mostly veggie diet and an hour a day running on the treadmill.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

GTdad said:


> This would probably be an awkward time to bring up that my idea of "kink" is to ask my wife to wear one of those old-fasioned nurse's uniforms. Or playing the Naughty Librarian game.












Oh pee wee!

Anyway, I like when my wife wears the Cowgirl hat.


----------



## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

GTdad said:


> This would probably be an awkward time to bring up that my idea of "kink" is to ask my wife to wear one of those old-fasioned nurse's uniforms. Or playing the Naughty Librarian game.


This post was so perfect in the heat of the moment today! :rofl:


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

jld said:


> I think it is as Wysh said, defined differently by everyone.
> 
> I just don't feel comfortable going further with this, Mrs. Adams. At least not right now. I'm sorry.
> 
> I hope FW can give a clear definition of kink. I would be interested, too.


Just jumping into the middle. Now I am wondering why FW is the expert on kink.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

We took a vote. I nominated myself as the expert but FW had about 3 X more votes. I conceded to her superior knowledge of all things kinky and here we are.

Stirring up trouble in SIM now? You generally don't venture into SIM.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> We took a vote. I nominated myself as the expert but FW had about 3 X more votes. I conceded to her superior knowledge of all things kinky and here we are.
> 
> Stirring up trouble in SIM now? You generally don't venture into SIM.


Actually I love sex in marriage. Not so much the forum of the same title. But I could be anywhere.

You know why I came here.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Why no actually I don't. Why don't you talk a little more about that?


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> Just jumping into the middle. Now I am wondering why FW is the expert on kink.


She's not


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Just jumping into the middle. Now I am wondering why FW is the expert on kink.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Kink is all about the couple...what they want and like to do... and to take a vote about it .....is just not right


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

over20 said:


> She's not


I did not think so. But I have been away.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> We took a vote. I nominated myself as the expert but FW had about 3 X more votes. I conceded to her superior knowledge of all things kinky and here we are.
> 
> Stirring up trouble in SIM now? You generally don't venture into SIM.


I don't understand this vote thing?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

over20 said:


> I don't understand this vote thing?



Deep breath.

Obtuse: annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.

There was no vote. FW being the expert on kink is the accepted social construct here at TAM based on the fact that she has a very popular sex blog in which she explores and attempts to explain all manner of married love and sexuality.

See: I Married a Sex God


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Deep breath.
> 
> Obtuse: annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
> 
> ...


That's what I was thinking too. If I had a question about kink and was too lazy to google,I'd likely PM FW  She knows stuff!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> That's what I was thinking too. If I had a question about kink and was too lazy to google,I'd likely PM FW  She knows stuff!


I thought it was commonly accepted that FW was the expert on all things SEX. Perhaps she needs to add something in her sig line...

"Sex....I got this...."


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## Happyquest (Apr 21, 2009)

Did I miss some kind of vote? what are we voting for again?


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Happyquest said:


> Did I miss some kind of vote? what are we voting for again?


seriously? lol


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I missed the voting  but here is a late one. FW is the kink Queen, your stuff is not always my thing but I love your style :smthumbup:


----------



## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Happyquest said:


> Did I miss some kind of vote? what are we voting for again?


Well, at this point I think the voting is over whether or not we should let jld piss us off.

I'll probably go for the "life's too short" platform.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

gtdad said:


> well, at this point i think the voting is over whether or not we should let jld piss us off.
> 
> I'll probably go for the "life's too short" platform.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

This is the dumbest thread I've scanned in a long time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happyquest (Apr 21, 2009)

Why is it, that when life gets shorter the Orgasms are harder to obtain?


----------



## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Happyquest said:


> Why is it, that when life gets shorter the Orgasms are harder to obtain?


"Hello, I'm Mr. Time. You'll find that I'm tough but unfair."


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't get her "attraction to other men". Is jld wanting her husband to bring in another man or men. Does she want to cuckold her husband? Does she want a gangbang? Is she another one of these white married women married to a white guy who lusts after men of another race? How many if those have we seen on here who can't just come out and flatly say what it is they want. 

I don't mind kink. I do mind it when the poster is mealy-mouthed about it and then we have to play Sherlocks to figure out what the hell they are talking about. It's frustrating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I don't get her "attraction to other men". Is jld wanting her husband to bring in another man or men. Does she want to cuckold her husband? Does she want a gangbang? Is she another one of these white married women married to a white guy who lusts after men of another race? How many if those have we seen on here who can't just come out and flatly say what it is they want.
> 
> I don't mind kink. I do mind it when the poster is mealy-mouthed about it and then we have to play Sherlocks to figure out what the hell they are talking about. It's frustrating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't want to speak for jld so I'm just going to say this is MY view of what she was trying to say and it's not necessarily correct.
I think she is basically just huge on transparency.I don't think she wants another man at all. I think she realizes it's important for her marriage dynamic to tell her husband any time she has a thought or feeling even if that includes sharing when she thought a man was attractive or alluring to her. We all admire other people at one point or another...some choose to share that with their spouse and others don't see it as anything big enough to be worth sharing. 

I do not believe she wants to cuckhold her husband at all. I think her world would fall to pieces if the dynamic between her and her husband changed in ANY way...including bringing in another man or woman.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> View attachment 22081


Anon....The words on this sign you posted could be your signature....or at least a great bumper sticker. 

People would honk or even flash you if they read this on your car!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I Notice The Details said:


> Anon....The words on this sign you posted could be your signature....or at least a great bumper sticker.
> 
> People would honk or even flash you if they read this on your car!


I would LOVE a bumper sticker like that!

My car pool duties would dwindle to nothing! In fact, the other mothers would start driving my 14 year old around just so the other kids weren't exposed to my overt orgasm seeking! Brilliant INTD!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm not actually an expert, just a huge wh*re.


----------



## NotTooSure (Jan 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not actually an expert, just a huge wh*re.


Well keep it up! I read your blog and went back and read previous ones. You and your partner are a mirror image of how me and my wife use to be. Home Depot... the tension it creates.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not actually an expert, just a huge wh*re.


I feel a new sig coming for me ...


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I still don't get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I still don't get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


don't get what?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Never mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Never mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

faithful wife said:


> i'm not actually an expert, just a huge wh*re.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

GTdad said:


> Well, at this point I think the voting is over whether or not we should let jld piss us off.
> 
> I'll probably go for the "life's too short" platform.


Please enter into the record that jld does NOT piss me off. If she did I would put her on ignore. 

Do I hope things get better for her? Indeed. My primary emotion here.

Am I laughing at some naivete by some other folks? Oh hell yes.  But that is my dark side.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I don't get her "attraction to other men". Is jld wanting her husband to bring in another man or men. Does she want to cuckold her husband? Does she want a gangbang? Is she another one of these white married women married to a white guy who lusts after men of another race? How many if those have we seen on here who can't just come out and flatly say what it is they want.
> 
> I don't mind kink. I do mind it when the poster is mealy-mouthed about it and then we have to play Sherlocks to figure out what the hell they are talking about. It's frustrating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are about a day behind me on this one.

I still do not know for sure on the cuckold thing, but I think it has something more to do with her childhood. I was told it was not a sexual thing by the Kink Goddess yet this appears in SIM. Huh!?

I suspect we are supposed to guess. That is part of the game. Part of the fun and naughtiness. I am just concerned there may be activities that if we knew about we would consider abusive and not find this entertaining at all. Now that would truly be upsetting. There I said it. But maybe I am supposed to wonder about that. Part of the chirade? So in this case I choose to err on that side. For now I am enjoying the show but also realize this could also be tragic. I hope it is just something fabricated for someones blog.

Inner Goddess may be more pervasive but it is very 50 Shades Of Grey. It is used in reference to a woman's feminine side. I almost said ego. 

For now this is what I have in mind : TAM Wide Shut

Because I like it better than reality.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Sighhhhhhh......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I thought it was footage from a recent TAM Midwest potluck dinner and adult night out 

Gotta say tho, Eyes Wide Shut was an awful movie...


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

bandit...she does not want another man. They are not swingers.

There is some spankings going on at times, but other than this, their sex life is not crazy/kink or BDSM. Most of her kink is emotionally based. This is something people don't usually understand unless they are into it themselves. I'd call her emo-kink for lack of a better term. Her emotional states drive her need for kink, not her body, not her desire for pleasure or sex acts.

Her original posts were talking about some crushes she was having on other men, mostly because she is lonely and her hubby is out of town a lot. The crushes made HER feel guilty, but her husband wasn't worried about them. Those posts were awhile ago and per jld, things have been better more recently.

I told her she was possibly in danger of an EA because she was beginning to develop crushes and that she should do what she could to end those crushes. She has since done that and has said the crushes were just silly and she was just lonely. The crushes have nothing to do with the lifestyle she and her husband have.

Does that answer your Q's bandit?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah. I guess. 

Weird stuff. But whatever floats her canoe....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

john117 said:


> I thought it was footage from a recent TAM Midwest potluck dinner and adult night out
> 
> Gotta say tho, Eyes Wide Shut was an awful movie...


And this was my subliminal message. 

A community of sharing and caring.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> bandit...she does not want another man. They are not swingers.
> 
> There is some spankings going on at times, but other than this, their sex life is not crazy/kink or BDSM. Most of her kink is emotionally based. This is something people don't usually understand unless they are into it themselves. I'd call her emo-kink for lack of a better term. Her emotional states drive her need for kink, not her body, not her desire for pleasure or sex acts.
> 
> ...




I'm quite impressed with myself, this is what I'd surmised from her posts, not bad for an oldie.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I would not worry too much about an EA. Highly charged emotionally people know what they want when they see it and it's not like they can be charmed as easily as one thinks. It's easy to say "attention seeking" but in reality there's a lot more behind the scenes details. People with high emotional needs will seek attention from someone with similar emotional capacity - never mind that they will marry someone that is NOT as emotional as they are at the end in order to keep a balance.

I'm not emotional at all by choice - I can regulate my emotions from corpse to perhaps 70% or 80% of nominal. My wife begins at 80%-90% and from there it's clear sailing...

So I would likely not go out seeking a highly emotional person for an EA if I am low-emo myself. Likewise my high-emo wife would be highly unlikely to seek a low-emo rational thinker like me for an EA. In seeking a partner for an EA we likely seek someone that matches our personality. Given the realities out there I would have as much trouble hooking up with Ingrid the Cold Fish Princess as my wife would hooking up with Mario the Emotional Fabio from Italy. 

I hope you can see where this is going.... By contrast, pure PA's are much easier


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i find it interesting how people here can take one of the most honest posters on this forum and conclude that she must be sick somehow.

i mean, we have someone here who has continuously shown a desire to help anyone she can, who is also so comfortable with who she is that she is willing to be an open book to a forum full of complete strangers, and yet we think that SHE is the one who is broken?

this is something that just blows my mind. 

i shudder to think of what people would think of some of the things they dont know about me. i mean, from time to time, i like to run barefoot until i blister my feet and tear them up until that they are covered in blood. just my thing.
it makes me feel safe. 

im pretty sure people here would think im nuts, but unless they tried to understand it, they never will.


kink is kinda like that. its very personal, there IS a reason we are into it, and you will never fully understand unless you have been in our shoes.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I don't get her "attraction to other men". Is jld wanting her husband to bring in another man or men. Does she want to cuckold her husband? Does she want a gangbang? Is she another one of these white married women married to a white guy who lusts after men of another race? How many if those have we seen on here who can't just come out and flatly say what it is they want.
> 
> I don't mind kink. I do mind it when the poster is mealy-mouthed about it and then we have to play Sherlocks to figure out what the hell they are talking about. It's frustrating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think it's about a cuckold situation.
I don't think it could be considering her lifestyle.

If I could put on my arm chair psychoanalyst hat for a few..

Considering her situation I'd say she's using some PUA concepts to get what she wants since the power balance in the relationship is what it is.

She probably is attracted to the contractor, realized this and figured it might get her the attention she wants if she told her husband as it would make him insecure about leaving her alone with the contractor.
Motivating him to be home more.

A little pre-selection mixed in with a jealousy manipulation.

Just a guess


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

And I ask myself....why the fvck do I care?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You really do not know me, tacoma.

I tell dh whenever I feel attraction. I think transparency is the best way to stop those feelings.

He smiles and tells me I have a big imagination. His faith in me relaxes me.

I am always interested in more attention from dh, though, and more affection.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> And I ask myself....why the fvck do I care?


Yes, why do you care? Why does anyone?


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

jld said:


> Yes, why do you care? *Why does anyone?*


hmm.. well, i care because i magically went from vanilla to kinky within the last year. 

sooo..... yep, interesting topic for me.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

As'laDain said:


> i find it interesting how people here can take one of the most honest posters on this forum and conclude that she must be sick somehow.
> 
> i mean, we have someone here who has continuously shown a desire to help anyone she can, who is also so comfortable with who she is that she is willing to be an open book to a forum full of complete strangers, and yet we think that SHE is the one who is broken?
> 
> ...


One of my pet peeves about this forum. Unfortunately there are some here who seem to be unhappy when everything does not fit into cheating spouse box. If your SO has ever flirted with someone, deleted a text, turned you down for sex one day out the week then that person must be a broken cheater right? 

Remember there are many here who have been betrayed in horrific ways. The reality is that they may never heal in a healthy way or get the help that they need to do it. 

There is some therapeutic value here (God knows I would likely be in a rubber room and divorced if it was not for what I have learned here) but some see red in every thread. There are cheaters behind every rock and tree (Why can't you see it you ignorant OP). At the end of the day quit reading everything bad into everything you read.

I love your story. I admire you two so much and wish my wife could open up the way you have jld. I think she is in the same boat you were and wants similar things. I believe at this point it is not me she wants to participate with her in those things because she does not see me as "that guy". 

Press on and enjoy the gift you have given one another.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

jld said:


> Yes, why do you care? Why does anyone?


Because I don't understand why life has to be so fvcking complex and drama filled for some people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Because I don't understand why life has to be so fvcking complex and drama filled for some people.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 :scratchhead:

um... because its boring if its not?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

RC, that was a very touching and honest post! Wish I could give you a bunch of likes for that!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I was laughing with my honey last night about how some men are so angry about that whole 50 shades of grey thing. He didn't get it either. 

It seems to us that men who are angry their wives get aroused reading that crap are essentially jealous. Jealous because another man is arousing his wife! It's the same when a woman gets upset because her man got aroused looking at porn or playboy... 

Some people are just easily threatened while others are not.

It's the same with being attracted to someone else. We're married not dead! Being attracted to someone doesn't mean you dream of running away with them. It just means an attraction. Nothing more, nothing less. Acting on the attraction is what causes the problem!

So JLD being completely open with her husband with regard to being attracted to another man would be just like me telling my husband I'm in the middle of a dirty story so don't fall asleep or I'll be waking you up as soon as I've finished.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Meanwhile I'm angry over 50shades bc it's piss poor writing and has a vapid female lead. LOL


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh you mean that doormat chick with zero personality or voice? 

That book which the sh*t writing?

That book about another female character who has been written w/ zero zest or a mind of her own?

:rofl:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

As'laDain said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> um... because its boring if its not?


Why? Explain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

RClawson said:


> I love your story. I admire you two so much and wish my wife could open up the way you have jld. I think she is in the same boat you were and wants similar things. I believe at this point it is not me she wants to participate with her in those things because she does not see me as "that guy".
> 
> Press on and enjoy the gift you have given one another.


Well, _thank you_, RC. I needed that this morning!

I love my marriage. I love the freedom and absolute acceptance. It is exactly what I need, and seems to be very fulfilling for dh, too.

Thanks again.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Believe it or not, I have never read it! All erotica is rather...well it's no Jane Austen that's for sure! But, tell a decent story and make it hotly erotic and I'm all over it! The only reason why I haven't read 50 shades is because I refuse to pay that much for erotica!


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## NotTooSure (Jan 13, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Meanwhile I'm angry over 50shades bc it's piss poor writing and has a vapid female lead. LOL


There is much more wrong with the story then the piss poor writing. But that is for another thread.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

NotTooSure said:


> There is much more wrong with the story then the piss poor writing. But that is for another thread.


lol I think there's a rant on record here that I typed a long time ago. pretty sure it was a few paragraphs long :rofl:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Believe it or not, I have never read it! All erotica is rather...well it's no Jane Austen that's for sure! But, tell a decent story and make it hotly erotic and I'm all over it! The only reason why I haven't read 50 shades is because I refuse to pay that much for erotica!


You sure didn't miss anything. Yuck.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Believe it or not, I have never read it! All erotica is rather...well it's no Jane Austen that's for sure! But, tell a decent story and make it hotly erotic and I'm all over it! The only reason why I haven't read 50 shades is because I refuse to pay that much for erotica!


oh consider yourself smart and lucky then. When I first tried to get through the initial book I thought there was a hidden camera somewhere and I was being punked.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

But I like how 50 shades turned erotica into mainstream. Before 50 shades I felt like a closeted sex fiend. No women admitted to reading, or god forbid writing, erotica and now it's almost boring. 

So thanks 50 shades! I can now come out of the closet as a sex fiend!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> oh consider yourself smart and lucky then. When I first tried to get through the initial book I thought there was a hidden camera somewhere and I was being punked.


:rofl:

Oh the image that just put in my head!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bondage. Pfffttt. 

If someone came at me with cuffs they would find themselves in am ambulance on the way to the hospital to have said cuffs removed from their rectum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Bondage. Pfffttt.
> 
> If someone came at me with cuffs they would find themselves in am ambulance on the way to the hospital to have said cuffs removed from their rectum.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


now THATS kinky!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Bondage. Pfffttt.
> 
> If someone came at me with cuffs they would find themselves in am ambulance on the way to the hospital to have said cuffs removed from their rectum.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I imagine many men feel similar. I've never actually asked my DH about this topic other than how he feels about being the dominant one. 
He isn't interested at all. In his words "I don't want you to pretend you don't want it and I don't want to handcuff you or tie you up or be rough with you. It's a turn off."

uh huh...every now and then he'll be on top and I'll feel his hand sort of creeping over my collar bone and he'll go from holding me to holding me down.  turn off indeed.


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## NewHubs (Dec 23, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> uh huh...every now and then he'll be on top and I'll feel his hand sort of creeping over my collar bone and he'll go from holding me to holding me down.  turn off indeed.


I do that too! Wife likes it


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> But I like how 50 shades turned erotica into mainstream. Before 50 shades I felt like a closeted sex fiend. No women admitted to reading, or god forbid writing, erotica and now it's almost boring.
> 
> So thanks 50 shades! I can now come out of the closet as a sex fiend!


I didn't read it, either.

I think 50 Shades was a phenom like Harry Potter ... as in, the world was headed toward an acceptance of a new style of things ... and the right book at the right time came along. However, if either of these two books hadn't been the one to light up the lit world, it would have been some similar book.

So what I'm saying is, it wasn't 50 Shades that created the change in the world...it was the world itself being ready for that change and 50 Shades was ONE way that the change leaked forth into the mainstream. 

The change itself came about because women have kicked off the REAL sexual shackles that they were wearing from the past generations and asserted themselves as sexual beings.

That genie will NEVER go back in that bottle.

50 Shades was the tip of the iceberg in terms of what will happen in the future. One day, people will laugh and scoff at the very idea that men are any more sexual than women.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Bondage. Pfffttt.
> 
> If someone came at me with cuffs they would find themselves in am ambulance on the way to the hospital to have said cuffs removed from their rectum.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh come on now Bandit. If she was wearing a corset, fishnet stockings and high heels and wanted to tie you down so she could take advantage of the far too masculine body and have her way with your package, as she licks her lips and glances down.... Even if she promised to give you fist dips on using the handcuffs on her, as she laid back on the bed and placed her hands above her head, lifted and spread her legs and invited you in...?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

well I was cold and now I'm inexplicably WARM


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I didn't read it, either.
> 
> I think 50 Shades was a phenom like Harry Potter ... as in, the world was headed toward an acceptance of a new style of things ... and the right book at the right time came along. However, if either of these two books hadn't been the one to light up the lit world, it would have been some similar book.
> 
> ...


Sing it Sister Faithful!

That genie will never go back in that bottle again!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> well I was cold and now I'm inexplicably WARM


My job here is done.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Oh come on now Bandit. If she was wearing a corset, fishnet stockings and high heels and wanted to tie you down so she could take advantage of the far too masculine body and have her way with your package, as she licks her lips and glances down.... Even if she promised to give you fist dips on using the handcuffs on her, as she laid back on the bed and placed her hands above her head, lifted and spread her legs and invited you in...?


She'd probably cuff me spread eagle and walk out with contents of my wallet. 

No thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

If you guys are saying the book is really bad (and trust me i am def going by your advice as experts) how awful do you think the movie is going to be? I picture it will be one where if you are watching it you will be non stop laughing, but the problem being its not a comedy.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Eagle3 said:


> If you guys are saying the book is really bad (and trust me i am def going by your advice as experts) how awful do you think the movie is going to be? I picture it will be one where if you are watching it you will be non stop laughing, but the problem being its not a comedy.


oh good grief I shudder to think about the movie. Ya know what book I want to see turned into a movie? 
The sleeping beauty trilogy. oh yeah:smthumbup:


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> She'd probably cuff me spread eagle and walk out with contents of my wallet.
> 
> No thanks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Eh,you just get a woman with her own fat wallet and that won't be a concern


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I know the plot line in general...I'll see the movie. I'll invest 2 hours. I'm thinking it could be way better than the books.

But if not, it was only 2 hours.


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## NotTooSure (Jan 13, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Oh come on now Bandit. If she was wearing a corset, fishnet stockings and high heels and wanted to tie you down so she could take advantage of the far too masculine body and have her way with your package, as she licks her lips and glances down.... Even if she promised to give you fist dips on using the handcuffs on her, as she laid back on the bed and placed her hands above her head, lifted and spread her legs and invited you in...?


Or what we use to call Tuesday!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> oh good grief I shudder to think about the movie. Ya know what book I want to see turned into a movie?
> The sleeping beauty trilogy. oh yeah:smthumbup:


My very first erotica and I didn't even know it was erotica when I bought them!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anon-I wouldn't recommend you or anyone read that book.



Eagle3 said:


> If you guys are saying the book is really bad (and trust me i am def going by your advice as experts) how awful do you think the movie is going to be? I picture it will be one where if you are watching it you will be non stop laughing, but the problem being its not a comedy.


Well.. I hate to admit this but I actually read the Twilight book (don't laugh) and it was HORRIBLE.

I saw the entire freakin triglogy in the movie theatre (don't laugh) and it was HORRIBLE and campy but the films were still better than the books.

That is how bad the writing was.

What was your first erotica, Anon?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Twilight is crap. Written by a Mormom chick. Bunch of asexual vampire eunuchs with feelings and empathy. 

That's not a vampire !!!

Vampires are cold , merciless unfeeling hunters who's sole drive is to rip your throat out and drain you....

Not a bunch of pretty-boy dooshbags with six pack abs and conflicted emotions!! What kind of crap is that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

_Well.. I hate to admit this but I actually read the Twilight book (don't laugh) and it was HORRIBLE.

I saw the entire freakin triglogy in the movie theatre (don't laugh) and it was HORRIBLE and campy but the films were still better than the books._

Come on Jellybeans its 2014 dont hide in the closet anymore. Come out with your Twilight love and be proud. Ha ha.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Eagle3 said:


> _Well.. I hate to admit this but I actually read the Twilight book (don't laugh) and it was HORRIBLE.
> 
> I saw the entire freakin triglogy in the movie theatre (don't laugh) and it was HORRIBLE and campy but the films were still better than the books._
> 
> Come on Jellybeans its 2014 dont hide in the closet anymore. Come out with your Twilight love and be proud. Ha ha.


:rofl::rofl:

Hello,I'm Scarlet and I was addicted to the twilight books when they first came out.

*hangs head in shame*


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> :rofl::rofl:
> 
> Hello,I'm Scarlet and I was addicted to the twilight books when they first came out.
> 
> *hangs head in shame*


:iagree:


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:


:rofl:


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Eagle3 said:


> Come on Jellybeans its 2014 dont hide in the closet anymore. Come out with your Twilight love and be proud. Ha ha.


:rofl: Too true. :smthumbup: I LOVED the ridiculous movies but I did hate the books.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> :rofl:


Now we've done it. We've went and blown our cover. lol

In my defense I hated the movies, I haven't even seen all of them... And I read the books before they were "cool." 

I also like hunger Games and Divergent... So sue me.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Now we've done it. We've went and blown our cover. lol
> 
> In my defense I hated the movies, I haven't even seen all of them... And I read the books before they were "cool."
> 
> I also like hunger Games and Divergent... So sue me.


 @ hunger games. The horror!!


----------



## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

_Too true. I LOVED the ridiculous movies but I did hate the books. _

You guys are cracking me up. Maybe we could start a support group for you ladies?

I remember my wife coming home from see one of the movies with one of her gf's and talking about it and her teenager daughter looking at them with utter confusion and disgust. It was than she said she realized she was not a cool mom anymore.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Anon-I wouldn't recommend you or anyone read that book.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:rofl: can't :rofl: breathe :rofl: wait :rofl:


:rofl:

Okay I'm better now!

Sleeping Beauty Trilogy. I was an Anne Rice fan and looked up her pseudonyms and ordered them. Had NO IDEA what I was buying.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I had that book once in my possession but never read it all. I may still have a copy somewhere. I have too many books to keep count of...


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> RC, that was a very touching and honest post! Wish I could give you a bunch of likes for that!


Just one like from you speaks volumes my friend. You are one of the folks I am personally indebted to here.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

RClawson said:


> Just one like from you speaks volumes my friend. You are one of the folks I am personally indebted to here.


Awe...you're gonna make me cry!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> I had that book once in my possession but never read it all. I may still have a copy somewhere. I have too many books to keep count of...


If you dig it out, make sure you have fresh batteries

The third book in the series got way weird even for kink. But there is a market for dehumanization stories... Small though it is.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

JLD, with respect, this sounds more like a deep rooted mental health issue than a kink - which wouldn't be surprising given your childhood history... Have you ever heard of this book? It might be worth exploring:- Home Coming: Reclaiming and Championing Your Inner Child: Amazon.co.uk: John Bradshaw: Books

With the right type of therapy you could help that frightened little 5 year old to grow into a healthy woman who is capable of nurturing and making herself feel safe.

I'm not for one moment saying that role play and consensual kink is unhealthy, but it is if it's keeping that child a prisoner of the past...


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> With the right type of therapy you could help that frightened little 5 year old to grow into a healthy woman who is capable of nurturing and making herself feel safe.


I don't think her or her husband has any interest in that Cosmos.

Jld doesn't respond to any suggestion in that vein.

She wishes to enhance her relationship in it's current form.

Changing her views on the DD/LG lifestyle would more than likely lose her her husband.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

tacoma said:


> I don't think her or her husband has any interest in that Cosmos.
> 
> Jld doesn't respond to any suggestion in that vein.
> 
> ...


This just doesn't sound like a lifestyle or fetish to me...


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> This just doesn't sound like a fetish to me...


While it is a fetish it is far more extreme than the run of the mill D/s scene.
Meaning I'm unsure it's healthy or secure.

I find it pretty scary myself.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I think it comes from her, not him, Tacoma. The Dd/lg thing is her thing, not his. He fulfills that role for her because is it her kink need. I think his needs are fulfilled much simpler than that, but he is on board to create the lifestyle with her that she wants.

There really are a lot of people into some version of this kind of kink. A few people right here at TAM are, I know. Some don't live it full time and the Dd/lg thing is a specific variation...but I know many kinksters roam around these parts.

In fact earlier when I said I'm not an expert, just a huge wh*re, I should have also mentioned there are a bunch of other huge wh...I mean, kink experts around here.

Jld's other ideas that are in the David Deida range converge with her kink...I think her H is more on the Deida range in his thinking and his needs.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cosmos, you are very sweet. Thank you for your concern. I will keep that book in mind. 

Tacoma, dh is not going to leave me. I really am safe.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Changing her views on the DD/LG lifestyle would more than likely lose her her husband.


i seriously doubt that!


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

jld said:


> Cosmos, you are very sweet. Thank you for your concern. I will keep that book in mind.
> 
> Tacoma, dh is not going to leave me. I really am safe.


Are you happy with the way things are, JLD, or would you like them to change?

Also, you talk about feeling guilty about being attracted to other men... Do you find that the sort of men you tend to feel attracted to tend to be 'unsuitable' bad boys?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> Are you happy with the way things are, JLD, or would you like them to change?
> 
> Also, you talk about feeling guilty about being attracted to other men... Do you find that the sort of men you tend to feel attracted to tend to be 'unsuitable' bad boys?


I wrote the thread at a very difficult moment, Cosmos. Dh had been gone for four of the six previous weeks. I was feeling pretty overwhelmed, and was not able to talk to him every day, or skype. Again, just overwhelmed.

His work load is a bit calmer now, and he took a week off last month. We went on a short vacation together, just the two of us. It was restorative.

We also have had some talks, and talks with friends, about how important it is to me that he try to be more attentive and affectionate. Right now he is sitting next to me, reading TAM! That is very bonding to me, that he and I share this activity. 

One of the things I have learned on TAM is that everybody feels attracted to other people. I guess it is normal. 

I just don't feel so upset anymore. I sure was upset when I started this thread, though. And I am glad for the people who were kind and supportive.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Jld...the last thing my hard working husband would want to do on his night off is sit in front of a darn computer reading stranger's posts.

I do share your feelings of loneliness...my husband works over 60 hrs a wk at his hospital sometimes....you are preaching to the choir and the choir has no sympathy...

Turn off the computer when your hubs is home and retreat to your bedroom....I know you have 5 kids and I have 4....you are a wife first and a mother second.

Oh and your OP statement is very unsettling....have you sought treatment for your past demons?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

He likes sharing an activity with me, over20. We are getting to know people together here.

Thanks for your unsolicited concern.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I sincerely hope this thread goes the way of the other one.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

jld...you do know that you are a wife first and a mother second...it can be tricky as women sometimes we blend it all together which is wrong...


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

over20 said:


> jld...think about HIM, no man want's to sit in front of a computer screen when he could be bedding his wife before he has to wake up again and work hard for the family....right?


Have you tried active listening or rather active reading?



> Thanks for your unsolicited concern.


Sweet isn't it?


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> I sincerely hope this thread goes the way of the other one.


I think it's about to, in more ways than one.


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

tacoma said:


> I think it's about to, in more ways than one.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

jld said:


> He likes sharing an activity with me, over20. We are getting to know people together here.
> 
> Thanks for your unsolicited concern.


To each their own I guess....I hope you had a nice birthday yesterday!!.....Were you guys able to go out?....


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I was laughing with my honey last night about how some men are so angry about that whole 50 shades of grey thing. He didn't get it either.
> 
> It seems to us that men who are angry their wives get aroused reading that crap are essentially jealous. Jealous because another man is arousing his wife! It's the same when a woman gets upset because her man got aroused looking at porn or playboy...
> 
> ...


As you know I have posted regarding this before. It was not that I was bothered that my W was into this (I thought it was kind of exciting) but that she was not into it with me. I was encouraged to approach her about this and did so with pretty lack luster results to say the least. 

The comparison is made to men watching porn. While I used to be guilty of watching it I found it a poor substitute for what I wanted with my W. Deeper connection and intimacy. The sex was always good but to me it was just sex most of the time and for many many years that was fine. 

To illustrate this point more fully I only have to go back to last weekend. Friday night I had not seen her for four days and eventually got her in the mood for some lackluster sex. The next night she practically attacked me. Initially I was into it of course I mean everything was clicking but then something happened. I sensed she was not present with me and things kind of went south (literally and figuratively) from that point. Now I still did my duty and finished her off to her satisfaction but overall it was a let down. 

The next morning I check on her tablet and sure enough she had downloaded the last of the trilogy the previous morning. Again I am not mad at her but disappointed. I do not feel like she is present with me but she is in her own head. 

Now if I came home and she had the cuffs in her hand and a flogger in the other and said "Please"? I am completely on board with that. Just let me in!


----------



## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I think dug being the dom would voice his opinion to Jld if he did not want to be on the computer. They seem to have a good grasp on their relationship so I am not worried about them.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

RClawson said:


> As you know I have posted regarding this before. It was not that I was bothered that my W was into this (I thought it was kind of exciting) but that she was not into it with me. I was encouraged to approach her about this and did so with pretty lack luster results to say the least.
> 
> The comparison is made to men watching porn. While I used to be guilty of watching it I found it a poor substitute for what I wanted with my W. Deeper connection and intimacy. The sex was always good but to me it was just sex most of the time and for many many years that was fine.
> 
> ...



This is refreshing to hear!!! Sounds like you guys have a lot of fun! You two sound so fun!! Is your wife on TAM also?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

jld said:


> I wrote the thread at a very difficult moment, Cosmos. Dh had been gone for four of the six previous weeks. I was feeling pretty overwhelmed, and was not able to talk to him every day, or skype. Again, just overwhelmed.
> 
> His work load is a bit calmer now, and he took a week off last month. We went on a short vacation together, just the two of us. It was restorative.
> 
> ...


I'm glad that your crisis has lifted, JLD.

We all need attention and affection from our spouses, but if your H battles to provide you with this it might be worth looking at the father / daughter dynamic of your relationship... I gain the impression that your H isn't quite as into this as you? It sounds as though he loves you very much, but there are lots of men who might find it difficult to express romantic love in a father / daughter-like relationship...

Whilst this mightn't be the case with you and your H, I do know someone who has a similar dynamic in her marriage (she refers to herself "Baby Girl" and her H "Daddy"), and it resulted in the H feeling unable to have physical intimacy with her... Again, this doesn't sound the case with you and your H, but this sort of dynamic isn't uncommon in women who were neglected and/or abused by their fathers, but expecting your H to 'father' you could be impacting on you getting your needs met in other areas of your relationship...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> I'm glad that your crisis has lifted, JLD.
> 
> We all need attention and affection from our spouses, but if your H battles to provide you with this it might be worth looking at the father / daughter dynamic of your relationship... I gain the impression that your H isn't quite as into this as you? It sounds as though he loves you very much, but there are lots of men who might find it difficult to express romantic love in a father / daughter-like relationship...
> 
> Whilst this mightn't be the case with you and your H, I do know someone who has a similar dynamic in her marriage (she refers to herself "Baby Girl" and her H "Daddy"), and it resulted in the H feeling unable to have physical intimacy with her... Again, this doesn't sound the case with you and your H, but this sort of dynamic isn't uncommon in women who were neglected and/or abused by their fathers, but expecting your H to 'father' you could be impacting on you getting your needs met in other areas of your relationship...


You are genuine, Cosmos; I know that. I read your posts and feel your sincerity. I truly appreciate that. 

No, dh is not kinky. He does it for me, and enjoys it, but this does not come from him. He certainly loves having a wife who is pretty much always ready for intimacy. For me, when my deepest needs are being met, my libido follows. 

Even his not being especially affectionate or attentive works in his favor. I am always seeking him, always craving him. He does not purposely deny me. I just have a greater need for him than he has for me. Or at least it seems that way.

I know this dynamic must seem strange. It feels completely normal and natural to me. I heard recently that in some cultures it is common for a woman to call her husband Daddy. I thought that was interesting. 

Again, thank you for your genuine concern. 

ETA: I just noticed your signature again. I think I have commented on it before. Lots of wisdom there.


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