# The Decision to Remain in an Involuntarily Celibate Relationship



## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

I found this on another forum and thought it might be of interest to some of TAM's posters.

It's only available on academic research libraries, ($$$$) so I'll summarise. (If you do have access to academic research, the paper's The Decision to Remain in an Involuntarily Celibate Relationship, Denise A. Donnelly and Elisabeth O. Burgess, Journal of Marriage and Family, Vol 70, No 2 (May 2008), pp 519-535)

Previous surveys showed

Around 16% of long term couples had 'little to no' sexual activity when relations (in general) are unequal, individuals can become distressed and attempt to limit costs, increase rewards, or find alternatives as a general trend, sex declines over time in relationships

This can be caused by 'stressors' such as late-term pregnancy and post-natal period, time demands like work, children, ageing parents, illness (physical or mental), religious/moral guilt lower levels of sexual activity are correlated with uappiness, though less so as couples age, and it's hard to unpick cause and effect lack of sexual satisfaction can cause a drop in or end to sexual activity so can affairs - though again it's hard to unpick cause and and effect lack of sex correlates with the mental health issues for the partner who wants sex, including low self esteem and self worth, feelings of rejection and depression, and sexual and emotional frustration. 

The costs are high and make alternatives seem more appealing. Again, it's a correlation not a simple causation. Romanticism, bonding, fondness, lower negativity about the relationship, and 'greater perceptions of "we-ness"' make couples feel the relationship is fair - ie neither side is contributing or taking much more than the other.

They used five categories of exchange:
rewards and costs - what are the pleasures and pains
alternatives - what else is available
fairness - is one side contributing more than the other
investments - how much time and effort has already been put in
prescriptions - ie societal expectations

They were researching four issues:
how do relationships become involuntarily celibate?
what are the consequences for the involuntarily celibate partner?
why do they stay?
what coping strategies do they use?

They defined 'involuntary celibacy' as having no 'pleasurable interpersonal physical interaction of a sexual or erotic nature' their partner for six months, despite wanting it, in relationships of at least a year The participants were 18 to over 65, but mostly 35-44, college education, professional and white. 95% were straight (the others bisexual) 80% had no children. They're not claiming a random, generalisable results because the sample was selected online. It's about interpreting the survey results to get insights for further research.

The results, in summary
(Respondents could choose multiple options, so the percentages don't necessarily add up to 100%)

For most couples, sex slowed down rather than stopped abruptly due to partner's lack of interest, relationship problems, changed physical appearance, addictions, illness, or affairs 94% of the partners not having sex said they strongly wanted a sexual relationship

For the partner wanting sex, it resulted in frustration (80%), depression (34%), rejection (23%), difficulty oncentrating (26%) and low self esteem (35%) This was particularly so when the involuntarily celibate partner perceived that other people in similar situations were in a more equitable partnership

Some stopped attempting to initiate entirely over multiple rejections, 47% said their ideal relationship would be with their partner if they could improve the sexual component. They talked about friendship, shared history, despite the years of frustration. Men were more likely to stay because of their 'investment' to date.
12% said they stayed because of lack of alternatives, including feeling 'maybe this is as good as it gets'.
74% stayed because of love
47% stayed because of children
39% because of a shared finances
54% stayed because of the commitment to marriage
17% stayed for religious reasons

Coping strategies

Invest energy elsewhere - 51% spent more time with other people, hobbies, or spent more time at work find alternative sexual outlets - 79% masturbated more (16% using porn, 26% increasing fantasisies); 14% cybersex, 13% phone sex, 26% physical affairs. 

Compartmentalise their lives - ie not thinking about it - 13%, therapy - 33% although they said it didn't help (though if it had, they wouldn't be sexless so they wouldn't have been asked). Give up - 35%. They saw the situation as permanent and irreversible.

The researchers concluded that most participants felt or acted as if their investments outweighed the expenses of leaving. Social context was important for women in particular.

Some celibates (the researchers' term, let's not debate definitions here...) stayed because of companionship, love and friendship, even though they'd like regular sex.
----In many ways, it's slowly and painfully working out the bleedin' obvious, but it's good to have some actual data, rather than everybody's personal impressions.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Handy said:


> 74% stayed because of love


Perhaps an example that humans have a strong "pair bonding" instinct/hormones/inclination once they find a partner. 

But is that really a marital "love" from the perspective of others? I imagine there are a wide variety of views on that topic....

....I also imagine many people choose that answer because it makes them feel noble and justified to have remained involuntarily celibate. People are quick to defend themselves for their actions when others might be critical. 

In my opinion, I would perhaps replace the word "love" there with the word "loyalty" because that would seem to make more sense. Loyalty is a form of love, in particular one that allows one to remain committed despite having strong differences of opinion. The word loyalty just seems a little more honest as opposed to saying love. Love means so many things to so many people. Many question what it even is. Meanwhile we all know what loyalty is.

Regards,
Badsanta


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> Perhaps an example that humans have a strong "pair bonding" instinct/hormones/inclination once they find a partner.
> 
> But is that really a marital "love" from the perspective of others? I imagine there are a wide variety of views on that topic....
> 
> ...


Agreed, and as said before, if this is "Love" I want no part of it. Or to put it another way.

I can have sex with someone I don't love, but I cannot have romantic love with someone I don't have sex with. 

For me, it is that simple...


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

It's a more positive spin of "I will allow myself to be a servant doormat of unmet needs because I'm too weak to do anything else"


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

Too weak or a doormat? There is a lot to say about society influencing people that considering a divorce means that person is selfish or just a quitter.

I posted this thread because of many things Rocky Mountain Yetti and BluesPower are going back and forth on another thread called sexless marriage and the room mates thread.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr.Married said:


> It's a more positive spin of "I will allow myself to be a servant doormat of unmet needs because I'm too weak to do anything else"


That's your idea of "a more positive spin?" 

Hope that was sarcasm.


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

badsanta said:


> In my opinion, I would perhaps replace the word "love" there with the word "loyalty" because that would seem to make more sense. Loyalty is a form of love, in particular one that allows one to remain committed despite having strong differences of opinion. The word loyalty just seems a little more honest as opposed to saying love. Love means so many things to so many people. Many question what it even is. Meanwhile we all know what loyalty is.



I completely agree with this. You can be let down and rejected by a LD partner for only so long before real feelings of love begin to die in the HD (rejected) partner. After the real love dies completely, all that's left is for HD partner to do is to keep going on in the same loyal manner as before, even if the loving feelings that drove that loyalty have disappeared...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Handy said:


> Too weak or a doormat? There is a lot to say about society influencing people that considering a divorce means that person is selfish or just a quitter.
> 
> I posted this thread because of many things Rocky Mountain Yetti and BluesPower are going back and forth on another thread called sexless marriage and the room mates thread.


Nah, staying is not about being viewed as a quitter. It is about being weak and being a doormat and allowing fear to override desire. There is nothing noble about it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> Nah, staying is not about being viewed as a quitter. It is about being weak and being a doormat and allowing fear to override desire. There is nothing noble about it.


I dont agree, I admire people who stay in a marriage even if its not what they would want it to be. I am a very strong s determined person but there is no way that I would quit on my marriage or husband if for whatever reason sex stopped.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I dont agree, I admire people who stay in a marriage even if its not what they would want it to be. I am a very strong s determined person but there is no way that I would quit on my marriage or husband if for whatever reason sex stopped.


Diana you have said this over various threads I have read, which has lead me to ask you, what value do you place on the sexual side of your marriage? 

'whatever reason' is a pretty open statement, which leads me to also believe that you may not have experienced what many here have gone through


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

We don't often agree (which is fine), but here I do agree. I think oaths, loyalty and love mean something. Not every decision in life is about one's own happiness. 



Diana7 said:


> I dont agree, I admire people who stay in a marriage even if its not what they would want it to be. I am a very strong s determined person but there is no way that I would quit on my marriage or husband if for whatever reason sex stopped.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Diana
I am a very strong s determined person but there is no way that I would quit on my marriage or husband if for whatever reason sex stopped. *

i used to share part of your opinion but reading (10 + years of ) the HD's posts that are in a long term relationship with a LD-ND spouse and feeling their depression, frustration, and being emotionally starved has changed my "leaving is selfish" former guilt laden reasons for staying. I admire the people that both work on these issues as a couple but far too many couples have one person that is a taker and one that is a giver or someone that does most of the adjusting to accommodate the problems in a LTR.

Lots of people feel taken advantage of or adopted until they can barely function. This does not seem fair to continue in a relationship. I am not divorced but I have as little to do with my W as I can while still holding up most or maybe only the basics of my end of my marriage promises. I am functioning mostly in responsibility mode and too guilty to leave for now.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Convenient Misery: the process of one allowing the unacceptable to be allowable due to the fact that it is the easiest thing to do, fabricating endless excuses for it, and swallowing self pride in the process.

Note: Not applicable to those who understand their HD/LD relationship and harbor no ill will because of it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Luminous said:


> Diana you have said this over various threads I have read, which has lead me to ask you, what value do you place on the sexual side of your marriage?
> 
> 'whatever reason' is a pretty open statement, which leads me to also believe that you may not have experienced what many here have gone through


I greatly value sex in marriage and I think its very important. 

My husbands first wife restricted sex and was very controlling in that area, he was rejected many many times, but he never even considered ending the marriage because as he said I made promises to her for better or for worse. He had children for whom he was responsible and he believes as I do that marriage isn't all about us, but about sometimes putting others first.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

There are other possible reasons this study does not consider. There is a problem with honesty before marriage. Honesty with one's self is put on a back burner to achieve something else. One or both are fooled. They are in denial about who they are. They allow feelings to rule their choices for lifelong partners. They allow the desire for financial security to override their good sense without realizing things will get worse as they live together and learn more about each other. All that is left is the commitment, the vow, the oath. I don't think the oath is what is important, if you cannot keep it. No one was meant to suffer in marriage, but to cause each other to be better, happier, more productive, more kind and generous to each other than they would be alone. If those things cannot be achieved, the oath means nothing because you aren't keeping it. You are simply looking at the words you expressed which mean nothing without actions.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I admire people who stay in a marriage even if its not what they would want it to be.


it resulted in frustration (80%), depression (34%), rejection (23%), difficulty concentrating (26%) and low self esteem (35%) 


???????????????????????

I realize posting little snippets isn't contributing much here but I just have a very very hard time understanding it all.
I'll never get why people stay in this other than my 2 previous post. 

Not saying it's the case with everyone who has this problem but I think a large percentage have trouble admitting they are themselves indeed the problem.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

My marriage would not have been considered as celibate. Although we did only have sex once or twice a month. I can relate to many of the conclusions of this article. My experience lead me to become depressed. I stopped initiating. I masturbated more and started to look at porn more. I stayed because I loved this woman, who was the mother of my child (so for the kids). I really thought that this was all there was to life. I strongly believed that marriage was for better or worse. So generally speaking I think the article was right on. I also agree with what others have said, it lead to me allowing myself to become a doormat, placing someone else's desire (actually, lack thereof) ahead of my own. To my own detriment.
I totally understand short term, pressing needs (child sick, work, day to day life), but I really feel when the issue becomes more long term and on going that there are other issues at play which more than likely cannot be resolved.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Ynot said:


> I totally understand short term, pressing needs (child sick, work, day to day life), but I really feel when the issue becomes more long term and on going that there are other issues at play which more than likely cannot be resolved.


Absolutely .... short term is completely understandable and in LTR's at one time or another are likely to happen. The ability as a marriage team to resolve issues is a real "litmus test" to the state of your marriage. 

Abuse, medical issues, rape all fall under different circumstances.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr.Married said:


> it resulted in frustration (80%), depression (34%), rejection (23%), difficulty concentrating (26%) and low self esteem (35%)
> 
> 
> ???????????????????????
> ...


It's funny how not getting sex from your wife can affect everything else. I have always been highly self confident, and that is one of the things that drew my wife to me in the first place. 

But after enough years of infrequent, mostly lukewarm sex, there was a corrosive effect on my self confidence. There really should be no connection whatsoever. Just because you're not getting it in the bedroom doesn't mean you're any less of an expert at work. But you start to doubt yourself. It makes no sense, but it happens. 

It even affected my confidence in parenting. I tried to raise my kids to be both self confident and resilient. But as my resilience began to break down, I felt like a fraud and not up to the task of steering them. It was something people don't generally think of as a by product of an unsatisfactory sex life, but of all the issues induced, this is the one that concerned me most.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> It's funny how not getting sex from your wife can affect everything else. I have always been highly self confident, and that is one of the things that drew my wife to me in the first place.
> 
> But after enough years of infrequent, mostly lukewarm sex, there was a corrosive effect on my self confidence. There really should be no connection whatsoever. Just because you're not getting it in the bedroom doesn't mean you're any less of an expert at work. But you start to doubt yourself. It makes no sense, but it happens.
> 
> It even affected my confidence in parenting. I tried to raise my kids to be both self confident and resilient. But as my resilience began to break down, I felt like a fraud and not up to the task of steering them. It was something people don't generally think of as a by product of an unsatisfactory sex life, but of all the issues induced, this is the one that concerned me most.


That is really depressing to read. How many years have you been on this road?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr.Married said:


> That is really depressing to read. How many years have you been on this road?


It sounds worse than it is. It hasn't been even close to celibate, just a sizable disconnect. 

The loss of confidence didn't come for a couple decades. And to be completely honest, I'm not sure how much of it comes from the lack of sex and how much comes from the brain fog resulting from the sleep apnea.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Strange, I'm about as self confident as they get. My marital ups and downs never impacted my so called self esteem.

They did increase my resolve to find an end game tho.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

john117 said:


> Strange, I'm about as self confident as they get. My marital ups and downs never impacted my so called self esteem.
> 
> They did increase my resolve to find an end game tho.




Which means one should always be careful indulging in blame-games, when it comes to your own perceived shortcomings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I dont agree, I admire people who stay in a marriage even if its not what they would want it to be. I am a very strong s determined person but there is no way that I would quit on my marriage or husband if for whatever reason sex stopped.





Holdingontoit said:


> Nah, staying is not about being viewed as a quitter. It is about being weak and being a doormat and allowing fear to override desire. There is nothing noble about it.





Diana7 said:


> I greatly value sex in marriage and I think its very important.
> 
> My husbands first wife restricted sex and was very controlling in that area, he was rejected many many times, but he never even considered ending the marriage because as he said I made promises to her for better or for worse. He had children for whom he was responsible and he believes as I do that marriage isn't all about us, but about sometimes putting others first.


 @Diana7, I for one value you posts a great deal, and you strong faith. 

Now, your husband may be a super guy, and you may be one of the few women on earth that can actually appreciate that, and honor that and him for being that guy. 

You would actually be one of the very, very few that actually do this. KUDOS. 

However, your H was a doormat in his first marriage, and if I am correct, the ended up cheating on him. 

Further, I have no idea what your sex life is and I hope it is frequent and great and it stays that way. 

However, you hear the men in sexless/low sex marriages, and it is my belief that most, maybe not all of these wives are in fact taking advantage of their weak husbands until they divorce them or just put up with the foolishness. 

And these situations are not where one or the other is sick or non fictional. I have never been in a sexless relationship, because it never occurred to me to be in one, and it actually never happened to me anyway. 

But I have been on the other side, with married women whose husbands would not make love to them. Not particularly proud of it, but it is what it was. 

You really cannot understand how much this hurts the woman whose husbands are asexual, or super LD, or just whatever. It breaks their hearts, the pain for them is almost unbearable. 

They should have divorced but had a thousand reasons to seek sex else where. 

I am not saying that any of this is right, but I am saying that unless you have lived it, it is really hard to understand what it is like for these people.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> @Diana7, I for one value you posts a great deal, and you strong faith.
> 
> Now, your husband may be a super guy, and you may be one of the few women on earth that can actually appreciate that, and honor that and him for being that guy.
> 
> ...


No he wasn't a door mat, but a man who believes in keeping promises made, who believes that marriage is a covenant and who lives up to his responsibilities. He is man of integrity, of strong moral values, who would never have divorced his wife or left his children for his own selfish reasons.

Yes she did meet another man(it didn't last) and divorced him after 23 years, but that was her choice. His choice was to act according to his beliefs and values or not. He chose to keep his values and not to abandon his wife and children. 

Personally I wouldn't end the marriage if for whatever reason he couldn't or wouldn't have sex, he and my marriage are far more important to me that that, even if sex is important. 

I do think that people who withhold sex for long period for no reason are selfish, and that's why the marriage needs to be worked on. Maybe in some of those cases there are reasons why sex is withheld. For example, I couldn't have sex with a man who used porn. Or with a man who was in anyway cruel or angry or abusive.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> It even affected my confidence in parenting. I tried to raise my kids to be both self confident and resilient. But as my resilience began to break down, I felt like a fraud and not up to the task of steering them. It was something people don't generally think of as a by product of an unsatisfactory sex life, but of all the issues induced, this is the one that concerned me most.


Funny (or not), I experienced that too. I think I've been a bit of an absent father (emotionally too) because without a bond with my wife I didn't feel we were a family. So, I isolated myself in the last 15 years. This is not something I'm proud of. In retrospective, I should have left and dealt with the kids on my own. It has been a thoroughly depressing experience.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Which means one should always be careful indulging in blame-games, when it comes to your own perceived shortcomings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Blame games are needed. As long as they're reasonably accurate. It's too easy to blame it all on the other person. 

I prefer the legal term "contributory negligence"


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

john117 said:


> Blame games are needed. As long as they're reasonably accurate. It's too easy to blame it all on the other person.
> 
> I prefer the legal term "contributory negligence"


I like .... accountability


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