# Now what? "I love you and I always will..."



## LonelyNLost

Just an update I guess as I sit and try to figure out what to do and how to move forward. I have no doubt that my H is depressed. I have so many questions I want to ask him and things I'd like him to think about. I'm drowning myself in marriage self-help books and advice. I'm talking to all of my close family and friends. He's opened up a little to his best friend and his mom. But not totally to anyone. 

I'm trying to institute a 180, but I keep having to talk myself down from the ledge. I've broken it in small ways, and each time I do I realize how important it is for me to stop relationship talk and stop being the voice of reason and optimism. It just pushes him further away. It's been about 2 weeks since we first started discussing a trial separation to cool off the tension in the house so we could communicate. It isn't what I wanted, but he's put up a ginormous wall and there's no getting in. Talk ensued about how a separation would work, he went and talked to his parents that Friday (the 4th), came home and we argued, then the following night he started a text conversation that went awry and left to stay at his parents. He hasn't slept at our house since. For days he was leaving after kids were in bed, then coming home before they woke up. On Wednesday of last week, I told him not to come back, it wasn't fair and it was cruel. He took it poorly, but says he understands. 

Now through all this, he's dragging his feet asking ME when we are going to tell our kids. I told him repeatedly that once we have it figured out we would, but I'm not initiating it. Because of me telling him to hit the road, I had to tell our son, "Daddy is going to stay at grandma and grandpa's for a bit so that we can figure out a way to make our marriage better. We aren't getting divorced, just taking a time out to figure things out." I was pissed I had to do this. On Friday, I left to go visit my family, and I'm here now. I was planning on staying until Sunday. He isn't even staying at the house now. He texts me in the morning still to tell us to have a good day. He calls at night to talk to the kids and talks to me. He ends calls most of the time with "love you". But I don't know what to make of it all. I feel like all his correspondence since I've been here is about the kids. And it's obvious that this 9 days away and the week preceding aren't enough to "cool off" and he wants to continue this separation indefinitely. I don't like how there's no timeline. I even really broke my 180 and called him on Saturday and had a discussion about things, and he told me that in order to consider the things I'd suggested, he'd have to get over his feeling of "being over it all".  He was hurtful with a lot of things. I guess it was really bad timing.

I guess my question is, how do I treat him? It's all so awkward. I try not to call or text first or say I love you first, but the 180 just backfires. This whole relationship snafu is based on an online "friendship" with an ex that makes me very uncomfortable. She lives 2,000 miles away, but I don't think her intentions are good. Now, he has an issue with one of my facebook guy friends and he is accusing me of telling this guy everything. I deleted the guy, no questions asked. Said it wasn't worth it and obviously it made him uncomfortable, though he said it didn't. So, he starts texting me about this guy yesterday. I'm so confused. Of course, the ex posts on his wall yesterday, "smile " when she just did it a few days before and he deleted it. So, I was hurt and angry and wanted to do something but I settled with sending him a text with the exact same thing. He replied that it was random and he hopes we are well and he loves us. Says he has no idea why she posts that on his wall, as she knows nothing about his personal life. 

This is our text exchange this morning after I had called him to let him know our daughter had a huge ear infection:

M: Just a quick question and it goes no further than this...does this all feel weird to you? Or is it like I'm just out of town? Just curious.

H: Everything feels weird to me. It doesn't feel like you are just out of town.

M: Ok. Thanks. I don't know if we both feel the same way about not knowing how to act or what to say or if to call. You just don't seem like you want to talk. I do love you.

H: I'm sure we both feel very similar in a lot of ways. I love you too and I always will.

M: And different in a lot more ways. Like idk why you always say that. But I don't want to get into a discussion now but if you want to talk I'm here. Whenever.

Don't chastise me for sending the texts. I know I shouldn't have. But I am feeling so tortured by all this. Like I can't escape it. I thought it would be better to not be at home, but it isn't. And now I know for sure that he's not coming home any time soon. Why do I feel compassion for him?!?!


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## anx

CHASTISE!!!
no, actually I think the texts were fine._ Its good he says I love you._ He needs more time. This reads A TON better than what you have been saying earlier, but I'm sure it all feels like falling apart and as bad as it could possibly feel.

He might need months, but hopefully not. Keep up the 180 as much as you can. Little slip-ups won't kill you.

He will only come back when he is lonely, missing you, and has space and time for the fog to lift. That will only happen if you can keep the 180. The whole purpose of the 180 is to encourage those emotions and stop the negative ones.

Best of luck.


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks for the encouragement, anx. I cried when he wrote "I love you and I always will." Makes it sound like he's done with me but he'll always love me.  It feels like it's all falling apart. Like this week should have been a trial "trial separation" but he doesn't want to talk. After I wrote this I called to let him know I'd be home from my outing earlier than expected so he could talk to the kids. I then said, "are you ever going to talk to me?" and he got all defensive. I feel like I keep messing up, but at the same time I want answers. I hate it. 

I keep waiting for him to say he misses me, but he doesn't. I am also having little thoughts in my head that he does have someone talking in his ear pulling him away from me. But what could I do about it? I just hate it all. I wish he'd let me in for some positive emotions. Instead, it feels so businesslike.


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## anx

> But what could I do about it?


 Nothing. All you can do is 180 and wait. It sucks. Being powerless when you are usually the one to bring up issues feel like torture. I wasn't able to trust that my wife would come back from separation, and she resisted even talking about it a little. You just have to wait.



> Makes it sound like he's done with me but he'll always love me.


 I don't agree at all. He is confused and doesn't know what to do either.

I've been there. Just wait. It hurts like hell, but anything else you do pushes him further away. I slipped into major depression at the end of my 2 month separation. I don't know if I would survive in your position, but you need to. I still think things are looking up, its just SO SLOW.


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## Neil

anx said:


> Nothing. All you can do is 180 and wait. It sucks. Being powerless when you are usually the one to bring up issues feel like torture. I wasn't able to trust that my wife would come back from separation, and she resisted even talking about it a little. You just have to wait.
> 
> I don't agree at all. He is confused and doesn't know what to do either.
> 
> I've been there. Just wait. It hurts like hell, but anything else you do pushes him further away. I slipped into major depression at the end of my 2 month separation. I don't know if I would survive in your position, but you need to. I still think things are looking up, its just SO SLOW.


Agreed with this,

I know I have posted a few times about your situation, but you seem hell bent on contacting him for anything just to speak to him.

Please, drop this, the more and longer you do this, you will actually be prolonging it and pushing him further away.

You cannot control him, but you can control you, and only you.


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## Crankshaw

:iagree: need to go low contact or no contact, give the both of you time to sort your heads out.


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## AmImad

Neil said:


> Agreed with this,
> 
> I know I have posted a few times about your situation, but you seem hell bent on contacting him for anything just to speak to him.
> 
> Please, drop this, the more and longer you do this, you will actually be prolonging it and pushing him further away.
> 
> You cannot control him, but you can control you, and only you.


Ohh God, this sounds exactly like I was.. seriously I know how hard it is.. I'm almost 5 months into my seperation.. and only recently have I taken hede and listened to the wonderful people on TAM.. and now guess what..I am feeling better and stronger and more positive.. infact it seems the tables are now slowly turning.. he has started to contact me..

Take some time out for yourself, I know your heart is breaking, but the world still goes on.. you need to move and work on yourself.. I can hand on heart say that, because I've been where you're at, I mean sheesh if you have a month to spare read my thread, my emotional rollercoaster! 

*hugs*


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## Deejo

This is going to sound harsh. 

You _are_ messing it up.

He doesn't have the answers you want.

You have made it clear that you would like your marriage to recover. You know that your continued pursuit, seeking out contact, requesting communication and 'answers' backfires every ... single ... time.

Yet knowing this you continue to do it. Put your behavior into a different context, and I would call it self-destructive ... kind of like your husband's.

What you are doing isn't working. You are giving your husband far more emotional credit than he either deserves, or can handle at the moment. He is ill. Very ill. Yet you continue to look to him to make you feel better ... and push him further away.

One of you needs to be smarter, and it isn't going to be him.

This is text book stuff. I don't say that to marginalize your anguish.

How do you treat him? You treat him fairly, but dispassionately. He's walking all over you. He has no sense of boundaries, or even appropriateness. You don't move out to dodge your feelings of uncertainty and tension, and then turn around and come and go as you please and text 'I love you' every day. 

Honestly, the guy has little sense of responsibility or accountability. 

How should you treat him? With disinterest and a focus on protecting YOUR well being. He is incapable of contributing to your well being right now, so don't expect him to. Only one person that can see to your needs ... you.

Be selfish. Just like him. In a nutshell you should be looking for ways to do the absolute opposite of everything you 'feel' like doing in the hope of making you feel better. You want to reach out to him? Don't.

You want to comfort him? Get angry instead. He's behaving worse than a child.

You need to set boundaries. Don't respond to the texts and calls. Be firm about what is acceptable about him coming to the house or having access to the kids. You see, once you actually establish boundaries, and he consistently runs rough shod over them, you'll start feeling less sympathy and anguish, and more anger and indignation. Right now? He is 'comfortable' with the way things are. He wallows in his depression, and basically punishes you for loving him. That dynamic needs to stop.

You husband doesn't 'get it'.

For as long as you choose to put 'how you feel' above what needs to be done to resolve the situation, you won't get it either.

I give the same advice to men. You want to save it? You need to be fully prepared to let it go. Do that, and you exponentially increase the possibility of the outcome you desire. Don't do it, and it's the same increased odds, with the outcome you don't want.


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## airplane

I don't hear anything about either of you getting counseling? Perhaps the two of you are and you forgot to add it. Each of you need to do your own work with a counselor plus you both need to go to marriage counseling. 

You both married the best and worst of what your Mother & Father were. You both need to own your 50% of why the marriage is not working. You need to do whatever possible to keep the marriage and get it working. If you divorce and remarry, all you will be doing is replacing him for another with the same problems. Yea there are those few years when it's so in love and he can do nothing wrong or you look the other way.

But you need to do all you can to keep your marriage going. Fight tooth and nail, stand naked and throw spit wads. Fight for it, when it seems like nothing is working, put it all out there again. The only reason to quit is if you or your children are in harms way from physical abuse and emotional!


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## LonelyNLost

AmImad said:


> Take some time out for yourself, I know your heart is breaking, but the world still goes on.. you need to move and work on yourself.. I can hand on heart say that, because I've been where you're at, I mean sheesh if you have a month to spare read my thread, my emotional rollercoaster!


I have read some of your story and it breaks my heart. Hugs right back at ya! A friend of mine and I have a new code, SSS (Stay Strong, Sister!). 



Deejo said:


> Yet knowing this you continue to do it. Put your behavior into a different context, and I would call it self-destructive ... kind of like your husband's.
> 
> What you are doing isn't working. You are giving your husband far more emotional credit than he either deserves, or can handle at the moment. He is ill. Very ill. Yet you continue to look to him to make you feel better ... and push him further away.
> 
> Be selfish. Just like him. In a nutshell you should be looking for ways to do the absolute opposite of everything you 'feel' like doing in the hope of making you feel better. You want to reach out to him? Don't.


Deejo, I never see you as being harsh. Sometimes we need the honest truth. And you're right, yet again. He knows where I stand. He doesn't know where he stands. And he does need to hit rock bottom I guess, as scary as that is. I guess it all starts for real when I get back home. He is such a mess. I'm going to post our text conversation from last night in the next reply. Blows my mind. That's the last convo like that I'm having for awhile. It does seem to be all about him, even though he is aware of what he's doing to me. I just read "Divorce Busting" and it says to do the opposite of what I've been doing. So here we go!




airplane said:


> I don't hear anything about either of you getting counseling?
> 
> If you divorce and remarry, all you will be doing is replacing him for another with the same problems.
> 
> Fight for it, when it seems like nothing is working, put it all out there again.


I just started IC, he refuses to do any counseling. Says he can't open up to anyone, so how would he open up to a stranger. I've said how he probably needs meds, and he says he probably does, but has an addictive personality and would never take anything. He says I can't push him for MC right now, because we tried it in the past and it left a bad taste in his mouth. 

I've discussed with him the whole "what would you learn from this if we failed" and he says he doesn't know. Seriously all I get is "I don't know". For whatever reason, this has him all beat down. See following post. I have to quit pursuing him with reason. I've figured out myself and I'm aware of what I need to do. I have to let him figure this all out himself, however scary it may be.


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## Jellybeans

If he doesn't want IC, unfortunately there is nothing you can do about that. 

He knows very well the pain he's causing you, that is why it's time for you to take some control back.


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## Jellybeans

What do YOU want? State your buondaries clearly and stick to them.


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## LonelyNLost

This is our conversation from last night. I'm not sure what to make of him saying he has no patience for the situation. What does that mean? No patience for not having a resolution? No patience for talking about it? And I know I crossed those lines again, but this is an improvement of how I've been. Slowly weaning off my old ways. 

H: Hope you had a good nite. Hope DD is feeling a little better. Please give her a kiss and tell her I love her. Tell DS I love him too. Love u.

M: They're in bed. Thought you were going to call and tell them goodnite.

H: I didn't know when you were going to be back at the house. You said you were taking DD with you, but I didn't know when you'd be back.

M: I said by 8 BECAUSE I had her with me. That's why I called you before. Why do you seem angry?

H: I'm not angry at all. I didn't hear you say 8.

M: You sounded angry when I asked you if you wanted to talk to me and you haven't seemed like you wanted to talk about anything at all. Maybe I'm wrong.

H: I wasn't angry. I was busy at work and I answered your question with "yes" and your question was "are you ever going to talk to me again". You're right I don't feel like talking about things. I'm drained emotionally. I don't know what to say anymore. IThis sucks for both of us and I have so little patience.

M:That's not exactly what I asked and I'm not expecting some big relationship talk. We haven't really discussed so why are you so drained? Just wondered if you wanted to talk.

H: I'm afraid to talk because it seems like it turns into something whether it be me or not. I'm not blaming you, I start it sometimes too, I know. And that IS what you asked, maybe you don't pay attention to what you say all the time either, you mean to say one thing but it gets said a different way.

M: I'm sorry. Just sucks you're afraid to talk to me. How do you feel away from me? calm? relieve? You seem annoyed instead of sad but idk if that's a good thing.

H: I'm not afraid to talk to you, I'm afraid of where the convo will lead. I don't understand what you mean by sad/annoyed, please clarify.

M: But if we set boundaries then you wouldn't have to be afraid. I'm not this controlling person that wants to make you feel bad. You were sad, now you seem angry.

H: I really don't know how many times I can tell you it is the situation that annoys me. I have so little patience. I am pessimistic, uncertainty sucks.

M: I know. What don't you have patience for? There have got to be positive interactions. I'm reading a book and it talks about that. I understand your pessimism.

H: The problem is we have very few positive interactions. I have little patience for this whole thing. I am just so damn tired, it has worn me to the core.

M: How do you think I feel? this isn't fun, that's why I wanna do something about it. I'm beat down as well. You're letting the negative consume you. You have to allow positives.

H: I can only imagine how you feel. You are right, the negatives have consumed me, they have taken me over. I am sorry I hurt and continue to hurt you.

M: You're hurting too. It sucks to feel like you want me to just walk away. How do you get out of this funk? Is it cathartic to write things down? Talk?

H: I have yet to find anything cathartic. If i knew how to get ouf of a funk I woulndn't be in it. LOL. Idk.

M: I wish I could understand. I really want to. do you feel like this time apart is helping you deal? Or is it avoidance? Would you be willing to answer questions I ask?

H: what questions? I guess it depends. I don't know what "helping me" you are talking about.

M: I asked if time apart was helping you. And questions of things to think about. Like the list I asked you to make. Do you want to stop talking now? (the list was a list of things about me that bothered him)

H: No, I will answer what I can, if idk I will say idk.

(Conversation then turns to how to make the screen larger on the computer, how the kids are feeling, etc. I ask what he's doing because I thought he was getting online.)

H: Laying here, trying to keep my eyes open. I'm tired, long day at work. I'm stressed out and this makes me tired. I don't sleep well at night. I'm worn down.

M: Why don't you sleep well? Wish I could help you. Wish you would lean on me. I don't judge you. Sorry it wears you down. Wish you could see the light through this darkness.

H: I know i can. I think I'm gonna go to sleep. I keep dozing off. (this is like before 11pm, and he stays up till 2 most nights)

M: okay, goodnight.

H: Goodnight. I hope you sleep well. give the kids a kiss for me. I do love you. I will talk to you tomorrow. (he's off work)

M: Okay, I love you too. Sending sleep dust your way. Please don't be afraid to talk to me. 


Haven't heard from him today. I know I messed up AGAIN with all this. Everytime I do I realize I need to stop. He is just very distraught. And it's hard to watch him like that. And let him think the worse of all this. We have had so many years together that were great, and I hate to let him let the last 2 months define our 14 years together. But then again, what can I do?


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## anx

> I know I messed up AGAIN with all this. Everytime I do I realize I need to stop.


 yeah, you kind of messed up. Its not easy to change how you communicate.



> no patience for the situation. What does that mean?


 I think it means no trust and that so often "talks" go instantly to arguments. Its draining to constantly try to avoid arguments.

Even when you hard 180 (which you aren't at yet) and let him be in control of when the relationship is discussed, it takes a while for it to sink in and to open back up.


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## Jellybeans

_H: I really don't know how many times I can tell you it is the situation that annoys me. I have so little patience. I am pessimistic, uncertainty sucks.

H: I can only imagine how you feel. You are right, the negatives have consumed me, they have taken me over.* I am sorry I hurt and continue to hurt you*._

Please do not have any more relationship talks with him. Is he having an affair? See, he knows what he is doing is wrong and he has no excuse for it. NO MORE relationship talks!

I would remain UNemotional when you talk to him. If he says give the kids a kiss, tell him "Ok I will do that." and say nothing more.


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> yeah, you kind of messed up. Its not easy to change how you communicate.
> 
> I think it means no trust and that so often "talks" go instantly to arguments. Its draining to constantly try to avoid arguments.
> 
> Even when you hard 180 (which you aren't at yet) and let him be in control of when the relationship is discussed, it takes a while for it to sink in and to open back up.


I know I know.  Today's a new day, right?! Funny thing is we don't really argue. We just discuss. But in his state any conversation is counted in the same category. I just want him to realize that he needs to let the positives in and stop focusing on the negatives. But I guess I can't make him see that. I'm so freaking lonely and just want to hear him tell me he misses me, but I know he doesn't. And I'm just going to have to give it time.


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## tamara24

I am sorry you are going through this. The only thing I can say to you is this. You need to list some activities you can do when you have the urge to call or text him. Think of yourself. You are beating yourself up because of HIS feelings. Just let him talk to the kids,if you need to discuss something such as the ear infection, just text ththe basics. Don't discuss your feelings.

I tried discussing how I felt,how he felt,what can we do,etc.... itdid not work until I thought of myself and how unhappy the situation was making me and my kids. I was ANGRY! He had the issues that he didn't want to cope and handle the stress,not me! When he figured out that I was no longer his emotional doormat,that is when everything changed. You really don't want to get to the point I did because I was ready to walk out. You need to set your boundries, and stick to it or you will keep this emotional roller coaster going. It is not fun! Get off the roller coaster and do what you need to for you! Good luck and hugs coming your way!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anx

> Today's a new day, right?!


 YES!



> Funny thing is we don't really argue. We just discuss.


 My wife said the same thing. Even hinting at anything do to with the relationship = arguing. :-/

He said he loves you and always will. I know that doesn't mean he said he misses you, but its REALLY close. It really is very good that he says that.

A few weeks of a hard 180 would be SO important.

Again, I don't think I would survive in your situation. I was SO desperate for my wife to say she wanted to come back after separation. The unknown KILLED me ever day. I started breaking down and slipping into depression and told my wife that. She knew how much I was hurting to the point that I couldn't function around her anymore. I told her there may not be much of a man to come back to in two months.


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## vivea

Lonely...my H. has told me so many times he doesn't love me ,not in love with me ...BUt he will always love me 
Don't read too much into that,they are confused. If you can feel that he still has love for you than i bet it's the case.words do not matter much to me,what you feel is more important.At that point they feel negative ,that is why they say negative things.
I think it's great that he tells you he loves you and always will.It's a good sign!


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> YES!
> 
> My wife said the same thing. Even hinting at anything do to with the relationship = arguing. :-/
> 
> He said he loves you and always will. I know that doesn't mean he said he misses you, but its REALLY close. It really is very good that he says that.
> 
> A few weeks of a hard 180 would be SO important.
> 
> Again, I don't think I would survive in your situation. I was SO desperate for my wife to say she wanted to come back after separation. The unknown KILLED me ever day. I started breaking down and slipping into depression and told my wife that. She knew how much I was hurting to the point that I couldn't function around her anymore. I told her there may not be much of a man to come back to in two months.


This is how I feel! I need something to calm my mind. It's so hard to get off the floor. Now he's messaging me on facebook asking why I didn't respond to his text. Asking what we are doing today. It's torture!


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## Neil

LonelyNLost said:


> This is how I feel! I need something to calm my mind. It's so hard to get off the floor. Now he's messaging me on facebook asking why I didn't respond to his text. Asking what we are doing today. It's torture!


just say you didn't hear the phone...

And just be honest about what you have done (maybe embelish a little into saying you have done something fun).

Don't talk about feelings or the relationship, unless he asks, and if he does, only short answers, and don't ask questions about the relationship back to him. By all means ask how his day has been.


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## Crankshaw

Neil said:


> just say you didn't hear the phone...
> 
> And just be honest about what you have done (maybe embelish a little into saying you have done something fun).
> 
> 
> Don't talk about feelings or the relationship, unless he asks, and if he does, only short answers, and don't ask questions about the relationship back to him. By all means ask how his day has been.


Underline = 

Keep it short & sweet, no need to elaborate. You are a busy person after all, so many things to do, so little time to get them all done


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, I did good yesterday and today. Yay me! Even responded to his morning text today that ended with "love you guys" with just a "Thanks. You too!" 

I also took a pic of myself and made it my facebook profile pic and he sent me a text saying I looked pretty in my profile pic. He called tonight to say goodnight to the kids and sounded kind of soft. I hope he's missing me and us. But I kept it casual. I even got bad news about a family member's death today and didn't call him like I usually would have. Just mentioned it to him tonight on the phone. Then I initiated the end of the conversation. I hope I can keep it up and it works.


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## Crankshaw

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, I did good yesterday and today. Yay me! Even responded to his morning text today that ended with "love you guys" with just a "Thanks. You too!"


fantastic ! now the hard part, keeping that line going over how ever long it takes...



> I also took a pic of myself and made it my facebook profile pic and he sent me a text saying I looked pretty in my profile pic. He called tonight to say goodnight to the kids and sounded kind of soft. I hope he's missing me and us. But I kept it casual. I even got bad news about a family member's death today and didn't call him like I usually would have. Just mentioned it to him tonight on the phone. Then I initiated the end of the conversation. I hope I can keep it up and it works.


you will be fine, have faith in yourself


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## LonelyNLost

Crankshaw said:


> fantastic ! now the hard part, keeping that line going over how ever long it takes...
> 
> 
> 
> you will be fine, have faith in yourself


I know. I did say it back tonight. It's just in all this mess, one of the things that has bothered him is that I don't trust him, he always feels like he isn't good enough, and no matter what he does I question his love for me. That's a whole other story, though. His actions don't portray love, exactly. I will get through this. I appreciate all the support I get here. I sure need it!


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## Crankshaw

LonelyNLost said:


> I know. I did say it back tonight. It's just in all this mess, one of the things that has bothered him is that I don't trust him, he always feels like he isn't good enough, and no matter what he does I question his love for me. That's a whole other story, though. His actions don't portray love, exactly. I will get through this. I appreciate all the support I get here. I sure need it!


the support is here for all, and may I say, you are another one that need to get their H to an optometrist !


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## LonelyNLost

Crankshaw said:


> the support is here for all, and may I say, you are another one that need to get their H to an optometrist !


 Thanks, sweet stuff!  I love TAM. It's my happy place in this cloud of misery.


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## Crankshaw

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, sweet stuff!  I love TAM. It's my happy place in this cloud of misery.


TAM people are Brilliant people (some a brilliantly Bizarre, but we wont name them, will we Freak)


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## anx

LonelyNLost said:


> It's just in all this mess, one of the things that has bothered him is that I don't trust him, he always feels like he isn't good enough, and no matter what he does I question his love for me. That's a whole other story, though. His actions don't portray love, exactly.


 This isn't that bad with a counselor though. You have a good reason to not trust him. He has a good reason to feel not trusted.


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## AmImad

Crankshaw said:


> TAM people are Brilliant people (some a brilliantly Bizarre, but we wont name them, will we Freak)


This made me LOL!! :smthumbup:

People on here are what get me through.. Even if by some miracle my H was to come back, I would still annoy everyone here! :lol:


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## Sakaye

Your H's reactions sound a lot like mine. Right down to some of his words. The confusion sets in their heads and their mind starts going haywire which in turns makes our emotions even more out of whack with their on and off again responses. But as long as you keep sticking to the 180, it'll get way easier, and you will learn to be your own seperate person again amd regain control of your actions and emotions.
I had a hell of a time trying not to contact my H too!! I slipped up as bad as you if not worse and I thought I pushed him to the brink of no return. There was NO contact for about 2 mos. I mean none whatsoever, and thats when I was like a phoenix. I totally died and was reborn, metaphorically speaking of course. I slowly came to the realization of things, and all the advice and tips that the TAM family had posted (the warnings, the encouragement, the experiences) they were all so very spot-on! And being here gave me the courage to keep up the 180. And when I felt really down, or like I couldn't continue, I posted here and it got me through the roughest parts.

My point? Keep to the 180. Its so hard in the beginning, as you've already found, but its worth it. If you have to create a dummy email acct. I did. And I would go into my real email acct and type all the things I wanted to say to my H and send it to the dummy acct. Sometimes that feels better.

We really are here for you. I have a small list of people on here I wish I could thank in person because without their encouragement, I may have not gotten through the really hard parts. There's a long road ahead still, I'm in no way on the road to Happily Ever After, but I am glad for TAM. I know it'll always be here if I fall again. And thats the best part, knowing you are NOT alone in this. 

Focus on the most important things, you and your kids
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

Sakaye said:


> Your H's reactions sound a lot like mine. Right down to some of his words. The confusion sets in their heads and their mind starts going haywire which in turns makes our emotions even more out of whack with their on and off again responses. But as long as you keep sticking to the 180, it'll get way easier, and you will learn to be your own seperate person again amd regain control of your actions and emotions.
> I had a hell of a time trying not to contact my H too!! I slipped up as bad as you if not worse and I thought I pushed him to the brink of no return. There was NO contact for about 2 mos. I mean none whatsoever, and thats when I was like a phoenix. I totally died and was reborn, metaphorically speaking of course. I slowly came to the realization of things, and all the advice and tips that the TAM family had posted (the warnings, the encouragement, the experiences) they were all so very spot-on! And being here gave me the courage to keep up the 180. And when I felt really down, or like I couldn't continue, I posted here and it got me through the roughest parts.
> 
> My point? Keep to the 180. Its so hard in the beginning, as you've already found, but its worth it. If you have to create a dummy email acct. I did. And I would go into my real email acct and type all the things I wanted to say to my H and send it to the dummy acct. Sometimes that feels better.
> 
> We really are here for you. I have a small list of people on here I wish I could thank in person because without their encouragement, I may have not gotten through the really hard parts. There's a long road ahead still, I'm in no way on the road to Happily Ever After, but I am glad for TAM. I know it'll always be here if I fall again. And thats the best part, knowing you are NOT alone in this.
> 
> Focus on the most important things, you and your kids
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for the encouragement. I'm trying. Kept it cool, then he called and like MADE me talk tonight. So now I'm a mess. We talked for 2 and 1/2 hours. Mostly not good. I don't get why he's such a pessimist. It hurts. He's afraid that we work on things and they get better and then we end up back here. I just kept trying to reiterate that if you expect that to happen, then that's what happens. If you expect the tension and that there will be no positive interactions, that's what happens. He doesn't get it. I just kept telling him that if he loved me, he'd go get help. He needs meds, he is seriously depressed. He doesn't think we can recover from this and wants to just call it quits. But then in another breath he says that hopefully we can eventually reconnect.  I don't get it. So, I'm taking care of myself and my kids. All I can do!


----------



## anx

> He needs meds, he is seriously depressed.


 If he is actually depressed, then it gets a little weird. You don't really want to get help when you are actually depressed.

Some of that should go away some when you guys can actually be together.


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## Crankshaw

anx said:


> If he is actually depressed, then it gets a little weird. You don't really want to get help when you are actually depressed.


I think I can talk from experience here 

In my case, it wasn't that I didn't want help, I didn't want to be part of the help,I wanted someone to help me but not have to do anything, not put any effort in because I so no point. It got to the point where I just wanted all the hurt to just stop, and it almost did.

If W had done 180 with me it would have been so much easier for me, but the on again off again screwed with me so much...



> Some of that should go away some when you guys can actually be together.


Only if he isin't suffering from depression, and if he is, he gets on to meds real quick (and the meds could take 6 - 8 weeks to start having an effect)

If he does have depression, you have to be consistent with him all the time...


----------



## Crankshaw

LonelyNLost said:


> He needs meds, he is seriously depressed.


Careful, there is a difference between being depressed and having depression.

Being depressed is treated by seeing a councilor, (may take a few different ones before you can 'connect') and talking through your issues.

Having Depression is treated by meds, depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain and no amount of talking through issues will fix it.

My depression was diagnosed after I tried to kill myself (I was neat about it, wasn't that nice of me, I didn't want anyone to have to clean up a mess, didn't think I was worth the effort I guess !)



> He doesn't think we can recover from this and wants to just call it quits. But then in another breath he says that hopefully we can eventually reconnect.  I don't get it. So, I'm taking care of myself and my kids. All I can do!


He is also confused, maybe more than you might realize.

Yes, for sure, take care of you and your kids, but the other thing you can do is be consistent with him, that is usually 180, 180 is for you, but is also, to a lesser extent, for your partner.


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## AmImad

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. I'm trying. Kept it cool, then he called and like MADE me talk tonight. So now I'm a mess. We talked for 2 and 1/2 hours. Mostly not good. I don't get why he's such a pessimist. It hurts. He's afraid that we work on things and they get better and then we end up back here. I just kept trying to reiterate that if you expect that to happen, then that's what happens. If you expect the tension and that there will be no positive interactions, that's what happens. He doesn't get it. I just kept telling him that if he loved me, he'd go get help. He needs meds, he is seriously depressed. He doesn't think we can recover from this and wants to just call it quits. But then in another breath he says that hopefully we can eventually reconnect.  I don't get it. So, I'm taking care of myself and my kids. All I can do!


My God!! It was like reading something I have written! Honestly!  I've heard exactly the same.. The only advice I can give you, is to *TRY* and cut him out as much as you can.. I know how hard that is believe me..  I've only just realised last night this is my only course of action, this is the only way he'll realised that I am not going to be here forever.. in hindsight, I wish I'd done this alot sooner, I was told countless times too  But I never had the power, the energy or the inclination until now.. I wish I had found the strength, I could have possibly saved my marriage, now I think it's over to be honest... but the only way to get over it is to start living for myself and stop :banghead: it's not getting me anywhere, it just gives me a bad headache  My H says the same things as yours, it seems so common *hugs*


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## Crankshaw

bloody husbands, the lot of 'em ought to shot, drawn & quatered, oh, wait, ummmmm, errrrrr, forget I said that !


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## LonelyNLost

So what do I do about all this confusion? A week without him has me convinced he's having an EA with the ex gf that's 3,000 miles away, and then an hour on the phone has me convinced that their relationship is nothing?! How do I get him to get help? Do I spend time with him? It's all so uncomfortable. I'm not proud of last night. After we hung up, I texted him "really?" and he replied, "what did I do?" and I said "you are so emotionless in your interactions and it's hard to see that you love me. There's nothing positive about anything you say or do" and he said "I do love you, though you don't see that. I'm sorry I make you feel so unloved. There isn't a lot of positive right now. It all sucks." I then replied, "It's hard to see it. If you love me, get help. Allow some positives. Only way to get out of this lowest low." and left it at that. 

This morning he shows up at 7am to watch the kids since I have to work and there's no school. Kids are asleep. I made sure I was dressed before he showed up. He comes in and flops on the bed and asks me how I am, to which I respond how the kids are. I didn't go to him. Small talk then silence as I finished doing my makeup. I stood near the bed to say goodbye and he sort of started to reach up then pet the cat instead. I tried not to say anything, but I broke. I said, "Don't you even want to hug me, you haven't seen me for almost 2 weeks" and he says "I do want to hug you, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable or feel awkward." and then I just walked out. He yelled after me that he would give me a hug and I just said, "have a nice day" and kept going. Why am I suck a sucker?! I tried to recover from my slip up. I did expect him to come in and hug me. Especially after last night's conversation, which I don't feel good about. He knows he is tearing me to shreds.  He is confused, for sure. But I'm even more confused.


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## anx

You guys really need to call a truce on this stuff until MC. This is starting to get bad. 

You guys are talking to eachother angry and frustrated. 

It sucks when you are hurt to reach out and hug someone, but its often the best thing to do. 

Also, you guys are probably feeling the exact same feelings. You both can't trust the other person. You are both hurt. You both want to connect. You both take what the other person does as a negative because they have hurt you so much.


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> You guys really need to call a truce on this stuff until MC. This is starting to get bad.
> 
> You guys are talking to eachother angry and frustrated.
> 
> It sucks when you are hurt to reach out and hug someone, but its often the best thing to do.
> 
> Also, you guys are probably feeling the exact same feelings. You both can't trust the other person. You are both hurt. You both want to connect. You both take what the other person does as a negative because they have hurt you so much.


Ugh. I know. But how? He won't call a truce. He won't go to MC. And I'm almost convinced (from one second to the next it changes) that there's someone else. I think we have similar feelings, but also very different. We both don't know what to do or how to act. Except I keep telling him he needs to allow us to have positive interactions, but he has a self-fulfilling prophecy that every interaction is going to be negative, so that's what happens. I don't know if he wants to connect, all he's done is disconnect. I don't think I hurt him, I think this situation hurts him, but I really don't think my actions hurt him. I guess it hurts him that I'm hurt and he keeps hurting me. Everything is awkward. Neither of us knows how to act. It's like a huge stalemate. I don't know what to do or say or how to act. If I make it about me and continue my 180 he says that it's a game. :scratchhead:


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## Jellybeans

IF there is someone else, that would explain his behavior greatly.

Try to find out. 

One's instinct is usually right--what is maing you think that?


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> IF there is someone else, that would explain his behavior greatly.
> 
> Try to find out.
> 
> One's instinct is usually right--what is maing you think that?


The fact that it would explain his behavior! And there are huge red flags. I've shared some pieces on here, but from the outside looking in it's obvious. But then again, I really don't think so. If it were, it would be an EA with someone who lives 2,500 miles away and she was his first love. They dated for 2 years when he was like 15. And damn facebook is to blame. But now I'm locked out of everything because I told him I was going to trust him. So the only thing I have is her phone number, but no access to catch him doing anything. And he swears that it's nothing and they barely talk. But LOTS of red flags.


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## AmImad

LonelyNLost said:


> The fact that it would explain his behavior! And there are huge red flags. I've shared some pieces on here, but from the outside looking in it's obvious. But then again, I really don't think so. If it were, it would be an EA with someone who lives 2,500 miles away and she was his first love. They dated for 2 years when he was like 15. And damn facebook is to blame. But now I'm locked out of everything because I told him I was going to trust him. So the only thing I have is her phone number, but no access to catch him doing anything. And he swears that it's nothing and they barely talk. But LOTS of red flags.


I am sorry but distance doesn't mean a thing  I live in the UK right, my H had an EA with someone in Australia... one month after leaving me he was on a plane.. 2 hours after landing he turned that into a PA.... 

If you suspect it and feel it in your gut you're probably right  I was, it's our hearts that tries to convince us otherwise, because we never want the person we've dedicated our lives too to do it xx


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## Jellybeans

Listen to the red flags.



LonelyNLost said:


> A week without him has me convinced he's having an EA with the ex gf that's 3,000 miles away, and then an hour on the phone has me convinced that their relationship is nothing?!


He is only "confused" cause he's talking to her. 99% of the time when someone says they are "confused" about what to do in their marriage, it's cause an affair is happening. From your above statement, it's obvious something is going on. An hour? Really? I don't even talk that long on the phone with my bff.

As long as he's got this going on, you can't recover your marriage .That is why it's time for you to pull the rug out from underneath him. Right now he sees you as safe, a doormat, where he can do/say waht he wants w/o suffering any consequences. You need to tell him and mean it, that you won't be in an open marriage and if not, X will happen...


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## AmImad

Jellybeans said:


> Listen to the red flags.
> 
> 
> 
> He is only "confused" cause he's talking to her. 99% of the time when someone says they are "confused" about what to do in their marriage, it's cause an affair is happening. From your above statement, it's obvious something is going on. An hour? Really? I don't even talk that long on the phone with my bff.
> 
> As long as he's got this going on, you can't recover your marriage .That is why it's time for you to pull the rug out from underneath him. Right now he sees you as safe, a doormat, where he can do/say waht he wants w/o suffering any consequences. You need to tell him and mean it, that you won't be in an open marriage and if not, X will happen...


I agree with Jellybeans you really need to do this LC and 180 for you, and it shows him you're not going to take his sh*t.. I really really wish I had, and I was told to do it 3 months ago!!


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## Jellybeans

Also, the sooner you take a stand, the better chances you have at recovering your marriage. Every month the affair goes out, it grows and an 'attachment' is developed.

I was having an A, and NOTHING woke me up faster than my husband filing and serving me with separation papers. Seriously. My story is screwy though cause he also cheated but believe me, it will GET HIS ATTENTION if you let him know unequivocally that you aren't going to tolerate that BS. Cause that is what it is--disrespectful BS. Expose the affair. Is OW married or partnered? If she is, TELL HER HUSBAND TODAY!


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## golfergirl

He can't make you talk. Just end conversation. The rehashing on your end and walls up on his end has to be draining - just back away for a bit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

This is so frustrating! He just all of sudden out of nowhere sent me like 12 texts full of his feelings. It's all about how he doesn't feel good enough, nothing he says or does is right, he can't be the person he was or I want him to be, etc. I told him I would talk but I'm at work now. He says he's expressing himself that way. I'll write out some of it later on today. But he's saying he feels like he's failed, and accepting that feels right.  I think he's done. 

And the ex gf, they talked for 2 hours one night and I caught him, that's how our marriage started going downhill. She was married at the time, but shortly after became separated, and now has changed her status to single. I thought about messaging the stbx, but if he's a crazy he might use my message as ammo and then it will come back to me and maybe it is nothing. I have no clue what to do. I thought about maybe just sending him a message and asking him to call me. Idk.


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## Jellybeans

Yes, email the stbx and tell him you suspect an affair. He will probably know. DO IT NOW. Knowledge is power.

You said he talked to her 2 hours when your marriage started "going downhill" VERY telling, Lonely!!!! 

When you see him later, tell him, I got all your messages and ask him if there is anything you can do to help him. 
LIsten and validate what he says. Also, tell him how you feel.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Yes, email the stbx and tell him you suspect an affair. He will probably know. DO IT NOW. Knowledge is power.
> 
> You said he talked to her 2 hours when your marriage started "going downhill" VERY telling, Lonely!!!!
> 
> When you see him later, tell him, I got all your messages and ask him if there is anything you can do to help him.
> LIsten and validate what he says. Also, tell him how you feel.


I guess my concern is that what if it IS nothing? And I contact the stbx and he runs to her with it all and she tells my H. Kind of like my same concern for putting a keylogger on the computer. If it is nothing, then I've just nailed the coffin shut. 

Our marriage started going downhill because I put my foot down about their "friendship" and said it was wrong and needed to end. He said I can't tell him who to be friends with. I logged into his facebook an didn't really find much, except that he was "liking" things that I don't think he should. And then I found where she put our hometown (which is small and not known) as the place she'd most like to visit on one of those surveys people take on there. He says I made him put up a wall and made him feel like a failure because I didn't trust him. And he didn't think it was fair to "live under a microscope". 

He did have an EA 4 years ago, with some pretty scandalous messages I found. And he was spending time with her because she was a coworker. He thinks he's never good enough and that that situation is what caused this one. I point out that his current actions are what caused us to be here. And he went to visit his hometown where she lives in January. In the middle of all this mess, he did commit to working on us, and things got great really fast. But when he came back from his trip they fell apart again. I feel like an idiot. But I really believe him when he says there's nothing!


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## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> I guess my concern is that what if it IS nothing? And I contact the stbx and he runs to her with it all and she tells my H. Kind of like my same concern for putting a keylogger on the computer. If it is nothing, then I've just nailed the coffin shut.
> 
> Our marriage started going downhill because I put my foot down about their "friendship" and said it was wrong and needed to end. He said I can't tell him who to be friends with. I logged into his facebook an didn't really find much, except that he was "liking" things that I don't think he should. And then I found where she put our hometown (which is small and not known) as the place she'd most like to visit on one of those surveys people take on there. He says I made him put up a wall and made him feel like a failure because I didn't trust him. And he didn't think it was fair to "live under a microscope".
> 
> He did have an EA 4 years ago, with some pretty scandalous messages I found. And he was spending time with her because she was a coworker. He thinks he's never good enough and that that situation is what caused this one. I point out that his current actions are what caused us to be here. And he went to visit his hometown where she lives in January. In the middle of all this mess, he did commit to working on us, and things got great really fast. But when he came back from his trip they fell apart again. I feel like an idiot. But I really believe him when he says there's nothing!


There's something. There IS! I felt uncomfortable about a woman on my H's FB. He immediately asked me if I wanted him to de-friend her. Because of his reaction, I said no. That is how a man behaves when something make his wife feel uncomfortable (unless she's regularly controlling)! 

My H thinks that his pseudo brother has a crush on me. We talk on FB almost every day. He's in Afghanistan and really wanting to start a family, but can't find a decent woman. He asks for a lot of advice. There's really nothing there, but if my H asked me to remove him I would! It would suck because I care about the kid, but I care about repairing our marriage even more. 

As long as you haven't been an over-bearing control monster, your H is choosing this woman over you when he refuses to remove her from his life. He could make his wife SO happy by removing a friend on facebook, but he chooses not to. That speaks volumes.


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## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> THe could make his wife SO happy by removing a friend on facebook, but he chooses not to. That speaks volumes.


So true.  He's even said this in arguments, that I have an obsession over this one person that's NOTHING, and that it would make things a million times better if he just deleted her, but if it wasn't her it would be some other girl. He says he can't just not be friends with girls because I don't like it.  Then he tries to play off his other friendships with girls and ask why I don't have a problem. And it's because none were long term girlfriends, and all he's been in contact with since we met. I guess I should add that I added a facebook guy friend a couple weeks ago, and he commented on a lot of my stuff and my H asked me if this guy was fulfilling all my needs! WTF? He then tried to play it off as if it were the same thing. I said, "if it bothers you I'll delete him" and he said, "I wouldn't ask you to do that" and I said "you wouldn't have to." Not sure if the point was made. But this problem is persisting. And while I think I could go to counseling and work on our trust issues and everything else, I can't live with him being friends with her. End of story. I can't live with the suspicion. She's up to no good. And he's weak as hell.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I guess my concern is that what if it IS nothing?


If he says he's not aware of anything, then no sweat. But if it is, then you know. You are protecting your marriage by doing this. Just shoot him a 2-3 line email saying, 

Dear Ex of Skank (use her name though) :

It have recently begun to think my husband and your ex may have an inappropriate relationship. I was just wondering if you could tell me if this somehow was related to the end of your marriage? I am asking you this because I want to protect my marriage. If it's nothing, then please excuse this email and kindly keep this between me and you.

Thanks in advance,

Lonely.


**

Use the keylogger. Don't tell him. If you get bonafide proof of an affair, even better. Don't reveal how you know either. Just tell him that you know straight up and now is the time for him to make his choice becasue you WILL NOT be living in an open marriage.

My guess is your feelings are spot on--that it's an affair.




LonelyNLost said:


> Our marriage started going downhill because I put my foot down about their "friendship" and said it was wrong and needed to end.?


Well yeah. Cause he knows what he's doing is wrong. You were put a damper & called out his inappropriate behavior. 



LonelyNLost said:


> He said I can't tell him who to be friends with..?


Almost every cheater says this... along with "Oh he/she is just a "friend."



LonelyNLost said:


> I logged into his facebook an didn't really find much, except that he was "liking" things that I don't think he should.


Such as?

Oh and my husband also said the same thing about his "friend" on Facebook--that she was just a frien dand that I seemed "obsessed" w/ her.


----------



## Deejo

He. is. cheating.

What's worse?

He's trying to get you to end the marriage because he doesn't have the balls to. He continuously baits you and then apologizes for not being able to give you what you want.

This is extraordinarily dysfunctional. I hope you see that. The problem is that you keep trying to shoehorn it into a functional framework ... and that isn't going to happen. Not as long as you keep giving him power over you and your emotions.

This man is BAD for you. The tragedy is that YOU will drag yourself through broken glass before you will acknowledge or see it. If you valued yourself more, you would see that this guy is not worth the pain you're inflicting on yourself. He's pitiful and shameless. If he was my friend and he was telling me what's going on and what he's doing, I would tell him he's pathetic ... and I'd be right.

Are you familiar with codependency? Do you feel it's your job to fix this guy?


----------



## Jellybeans

Deejo's post is 100% correct. 



Deejo said:


> He. is. cheating.
> 
> What's worse?
> 
> He's trying to get you to end the marriage because he doesn't have the balls to. He continuously baits you and then apologizes for not being able to give you what you want.


----------



## AmImad

Wow Deejo, that's bloody insightful.. I was told similar things earlier on and I didn't take note  I wish I had


----------



## Deejo

Believe me, I don't take any satisfaction in being 'right' about the likelihood of what is going on.

He isn't going to lift a finger to change this dynamic. What he is doing is the equivalent of a child continuously demonstrating consistent, repetitive bad behavior, and then saying, "oops... sorry."

Saying "that's ok honey, I know you didn't mean it ..." does not work. There is no consequence ... absolutely none.

The little bastard isn't going to change a blessed thing until they feel the consequence of a boot in the ass, or being punished.

You haven't established ANY boundaries or consequences as a result of the extraordinarily damaging choices he continues to make.


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## Crankshaw

Deejo, you are a hard arse, you are right though 

p.s I mean that in the nicest possible way, please don't ban me !

Lost, read and understand


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## AmImad

Deejo said:


> Believe me, I don't take any satisfaction in being 'right' about the likelihood of what is going on.
> 
> He isn't going to lift a finger to change this dynamic. What he is doing is the equivalent of a child continuously demonstrating consistent, repetitive bad behavior, and then saying, "oops... sorry."
> 
> Saying "that's ok honey, I know you didn't mean it ..." does not work. There is no consequence ... absolutely none.
> 
> The little bastard isn't going to change a blessed thing until they feel the consequence of a boot in the ass, or being punished.
> 
> You haven't established ANY boundaries or consequences as a result of the extraordinarily damaging choices he continues to make.


And this describes my H to a tee.. and now that's what I am doing... trying too...


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## LonelyNLost

Guys, I'm SO CONFUSED! I understand that I probably just want to believe that nothing is going on. But I also feel that there is a chance that this is what he says it is. You know, HIS SIDE of the story. Which I'm only picking up in pieces. Before you bash me over the head with some common sense, I will acknowledge that this has all the hallmarks of an EA. But, my therapist doesn't seem to think that's what's going on. She seems to somehow see his side of it. I read her his texts from this morning when he decided to tell me what he was feeling and what was on his mind. 

This was after I had called home to check on things (I worked today and he stayed with the kids since they are off school). I asked if he was staying for dinner (since that was in our original agreement) and he acted like he didn't know if I wanted him to or not. Got kind of hissy with me. 

*H: why does it feel like nothing i do is right as far as u r concerned? I tried to do the things u now complain that i don't do, it wasn't good enough then, why now? * _(He's talking about the fact that I yelled at him for floating a month ago because he couldn't say whether he was committing or not. Later he tells me those were babysteps, which would have been nice to know about.)_ *i'm sorry u hurt, i hurt too. i want the kids to be alright too. U think i don't care, u want to understand, i have no answers. i can't explain myself and when try the answers are never good enough. My issues are mine, my faults are mine, my depression is my own. You keep telling me you have to focus on you yet you don't. I fell like i am not good enough for you, i will never measure up to this person you saw me as or want me to be, and i have accepted that. It takes a lot to accept failur. You can call it self fulfilling prophecy, tell me how wrong i am, point out every single thing i do and why, it doesn't change the situation. you can pointe out all the things i don't do, the way that i continue to not conform to what you think or follow your plan, all the things i don't do, it all reinforces what i have already come to accept. i failed at my marriage, i no longer meet ur needs. i'm sorry i feel that way because my feelings are another thing that you disagree with and you point that out to me too. The thing is, i even feel like i fail at my feelings cuz those are wrong in ur eyes too. i have come to this point where communicating is harder than not, because at least when i don't, i don't feel like i have to defend the way i feel. It sux to have to defend myself or the way i feel at any given moment, even when i say i love you, i have to defend that too. i don't know what to say anymore.*

_Wowzers that was a lot to ingest at one time. It all just came pouring out. This came through as like 15 texts one after the other while I'm trying to work. I lost my 180 head, and let my friend influence me. I'm trying guys, I really am. I will improve. 
_
*M: i am glad you're willing to share these things and it seems like you have a lot to say. But i am at work and this isn't a good time. I want to listen. Can we talk? (which in retrospect is exactly how my therapist told me to respond)

H:i really don't want to get into this tonight. i know that is another thing you disagree with, another way i fail. we talked for 2 1/2 hours last night.

M: Ugh. Well this isn't fair. Why r u doing this knowing I can't respond? Why didn't you tell me these things last night? These are things to work thru with a counselor.

H: I want to enjoy my day with our kids, to try to have some semblance of normalcy in my life for one day. You call it avoidance, I call it trying to keep sanity. I am running out of things to say. I no longer have fight left, can no longer defend myself, am getting to the point where acceptance feels right.

M: stop attacking me. u have your version and i have mine but you're busy judging. Avoidance is not communicating or facing issues. Not time is ever right. Just understand.

H:Because you called and i had to defend what i was doing tonight, defend not texting this morning. Every single thing i do is taken personally, i'm tired of defense.

M: Everything i do is taken personally. I didn't make you defend anything. U perceive it that way. Again its about perceptions. Sorry I make you feel like Sh!t.

H: im not attacking u. nevermind. i try to express myself through text, to tell you what i think or how i am feeling. it was a mistake. i know ur at work, sorry. we both have our own versions, tehy will never be the same. i know this sux, you hate the way i handle things, you disagree with all that i do, thats fair.

M: Here we go with that. I said i know you have things to say and i'm willing to discuss them. it all doesn't matter because what i say is wrong of me to say.

H: i don't want to do this, at all. i'm spend. i want to visit with and love our kids. im not trying to f&ck up ur day. sorry im a quitter in ur eyes.

M: wtf? nice of u to tell me this via text. i appreciate ur honesty. one day you will realize how much i love u, the hurt u caused, and what u threw away.

H: omg. whay the f&ck is it no matter what i do causes this? what did i tell u via text? i know the hurt i cause. i look at it every day in the mirror.

M: aaaaahhhh! this is getting worse because we both feel teh same in a lot of ways. there's too much hurt, confusion, anger, misunderstanding to communicate. I guess i'm just having a really hard time understanding why our marriage isn't worth it and how it all fell apart so quickly. makes me feel disposable.

H: ughhh. i'm sorry i make you feel the way i do.

M: Then listen to the words i say and stop taking everything as a judgement on you. i guess i feel u owe me an effort but u don't owe me anything. put down the defense.*

It stopped there. Then I called him on the way to IC to see what they were up to, things stayed civil for a moment then he started in again. Was like yelling at me and me yelling at him. Freaking ridiculous. I asked him why it went from him being sad to then angry and he said, "that's the stages of a breakup!"  I don't get it. He tore into me for telling him to see a doctor, yelled at me about me thinking he's having an affair, saying that each time I bring that up it pushes him away. I say it feels like something is pulling him away and i don't understand how this happened so fast. He says there's no pulling, only me pushing! So frustrating. 

M: Is there any possible way for us to just cool off for a bit and call a truce and start over? and during that time take care of ourselves so we can feel and think straight?

He then called me to tell me we got a check in the mail. I asked if he got my text he said yes and his answer was "I don't know." So the therapist told me that he feels like he's not been heard or understood by me. That he feels like I just don't listen, all I want is for him to hear me. Which I can see. Every freaking time we get into these discussions, I always feel the same way. Like I want to smack myself for being baited into a discussion.

We met up for dinner. He acted okay, didn't greet me warmly or anything but we avoided conversation about us. We talked about things, work, kids, tattoos LOL, his parents, animals, etc. I could tell he was on edge, but at least he wasn't moping. My son then asked to stay the night with him (guess he talked to him today about stuff) and he said he was going to a tattoo shop and didn't want to go back to the house tonight. We stood outside and he grabbed me and pulled me in for a hug and held me for a minute. Then we walked back to his truck to get something of my daughter's. He then hugged me and kissed me on the head a couple times and told me he loved me. And then told the kids we'd talk about them staying over at his parent's house with him. Oh boy. This is one heck of a rollercoaster.


----------



## Deejo

You guys see an awful lot of each other for a couple that can't have a conversation and by his account, is getting ready to divorce ... once he pushes you far enough.

What is your therapist focusing on with you?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Deejo said:


> You guys see an awful lot of each other for a couple that can't have a conversation and by his account, is getting ready to divorce ... once he pushes you far enough.
> 
> What is your therapist focusing on with you?


I know. I haven't seen him since Thursday the 10th. Last night we got into it on the phone. Today he came over to watch the kids because I had to work and there was no school. So, we just saw each other this evening to go out to dinner with the kids. Not sure when we'll see each other again. He might come over Friday to watch the kids so I can go out. But no plans for us to hang out together. Again, I asked for a truce and a cooling off period, but for whatever we can't make that happen.

My therapist is wanting me to focus on being a better listener and not stating my side...biting my lip. Validate his feelings and show i understand. I just don't know how to do that when he's only telling me how much he's over the marriage. And I don't understand the negativity. For whatever reason, it sounds like he's done, but I still have hope. :scratchhead: The therapist asked if there were any way he could go to the session with me in 10 days, but I don't think so. Last time I brought it up, he just said I can't push it. And if I ask him again, that would be me being controlling and telling him he's wrong for not wanting to go. ROCK....ME....HARD PLACE!


----------



## LonelyNLost

not recognizable said:


> To be fair, he probably has convinced himself that he will save you pain that way.



Well this part is true. When this first started in November, he was all about how he couldn't continue to hurt me, he was willing to hurt me one last time and give up so that I could move on and be happy. :scratchhead: 

It's hard to explain, but he really does love me. I know he does. He's confused and messed up right now for some reason. And I agree that from the outside looking in it seems he's having an affair. Maybe I'm in denial, but I just feel in my gut that he's not, even though my mind says he is. I know he cares about me, he's just in a dark place. And he doesn't know how to get out when he's so defeated and has no motivation to try anything.

I know, I'm defending him.  This is so messed up. In one of my other threads, a poster identified with how my H was feeling. And it really made sense. Don't you wish they made this tool that you could use to just look inside of their heads? Would make things so much easier!


----------



## Crankshaw

not recognizable said:


> Well, if you feel in your heart that he isn't having an affair, maybe he isn't! Or maybe he shared some intimate details (not sex, I mean emotional) with someone (his "friend") and now is just confused.


Well, I have been told by people (of the opposite sex) some pretty intimate details of their love lifes (not anyone from here I might add) and there has been no EA about it, I knew them well enough for them to feel comfortable with me, and I can be a good listener, and they just needed to vent to someone, and knew I would be telling others what they had confided in me, but this is me...


----------



## LonelyNLost

not recognizable said:


> Well, if you feel in your heart that he isn't having an affair, maybe he isn't! Or maybe he shared some intimate details (not sex, I mean emotional) with someone (his "friend") and now is just confused.
> 
> Mine told me that obviously he couldn't make me happy and should just let me go so I could find someone who would...and it was a crock. Sure enough, he has a "friend."


Well, that was my concern. The EA four years ago started because he confided in someone who also confided in him. And that girl left her husband. My H has strong pull, lol! This ex gf also left her H a couple months ago. He promises he hasn't told her anything except that "we have our share of issues just like everyone else". But then he insinuated that one of my guy friends knew something and then said, "let's just put it this way. SHE knows as much as your GUY friend does." So idk. I've stressed how important it is not to do that, so hopefully he's learned. I really don't know. I wish she'd disappear.



Crankshaw said:


> Well, I have been told by people (of the opposite sex) some pretty intimate details of their love lifes (not anyone from here I might add) and there has been no EA about it, I knew them well enough for them to feel comfortable with me, and I can be a good listener, and they just needed to vent to someone, and knew I would be telling others what they had confided in me, but this is me...


You are a good listener. :smthumbup: I agree that sometimes people of the opposite sex can talk about issues, in some circumstances. But it's dangerous grounds and not for the weak. And definitely not territory to travel in if there's been past romantic connections at any point in time. Just asking for trouble. 



Just an update. He called me to tell me about his tattoo, and was pleasant and sounded okay. Today was the strangest day E.V.E.R.! Most rollercoaster rides in one day. Whoah. I'm emotionally spent.


----------



## vivea

'


> It's hard to explain, but he really does love me. I know he does. He's confused and messed up right now for some reason. And I agree that from the outside looking in it seems he's having an affair. Maybe I'm in denial, but I just feel in my gut that he's not, even though my mind says he is. I know he cares about me, he's just in a dark place. And he doesn't know how to get out when he's so defeated and has no motivation to try anything.


I could have written this ,I could just feel he loves me. His lips say something different but his body language says the truth. Go by what you feel ,not by what he says.My H. said so much nonsense while he was angry (for no reason) at me.Usually I would be flipping on his comments but the things that he said that day were so far away for his body language that I didn't even pay attention. I'm still puzzled by my reaction, I remember what he said BUT I'm not upset,it's like i know that something else said these words (may be his anger) ...not him.


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## LonelyNLost

vivea said:


> '
> 
> I could have written this ,I could just feel he loves me. His lips say something different but his body language says the truth. Go by what you feel ,not by what he says.My H. said so much nonsense while he was angry (for no reason) at me.Usually I would be flipping on his comments but the things that he said that day were so far away for his body language that I didn't even pay attention. I'm still puzzled by my reaction, I remember what he said BUT I'm not upset,it's like i know that something else said these words (may be his anger) ...not him.


Well, he does still tell me he loves me. Part of his issue is that I question that love because I don't feel his actions match his words. Big conundrum. He does say some crazy things when he gets in his defensive mode, and they are hard to forget. But I'm sure I do the same to him. I'm just holding on to the good times and the little glimpses I get of MY husband.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Well, that was my concern. The EA four years ago started because he confided in someone who also confided in him. And that girl left her husband. My H has strong pull, lol! This ex gf also left her H a couple months ago. He promises he hasn't told her anything except that "we have our share of issues just like everyone else". But then he insinuated that one of my guy friends knew something and then said, "let's just put it this way. SHE knows as much as your GUY friend does." So idk. I've stressed how important it is not to do that, so hopefully he's learned. I really don't know. I wish she'd disappear.
> 
> 
> 
> You are a good listener. :smthumbup: I agree that sometimes people of the opposite sex can talk about issues, in some circumstances. But it's dangerous grounds and not for the weak. And definitely not territory to travel in if there's been past romantic connections at any point in time. Just asking for trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Just an update. He called me to tell me about his tattoo, and was pleasant and sounded okay. Today was the strangest day E.V.E.R.! Most rollercoaster rides in one day. Whoah. I'm emotionally spent.


Whenever I read about him pulling you into these debates, I feel like I'm watching a train wreck and I'm not even well-versed on the 180. He's like playing you like a fiddle. Dragging you into a conversation then insisting he doesn't want it. He's bizarre! He's full of suppressed anger and fixing things to have reason to blame you. Personally a break should be a break - quit texting IMing and talking on the phone! He can call kids or about them but keep it to that. These conversations accomplish nothing but frustration and may be te guaranteed end of the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Crankshaw

LonelyNLost said:


> You are a good listener. :smthumbup:


at this rate I am going to be a permanent shade of red 



> I agree that sometimes people of the opposite sex can talk about issues, in some circumstances. But it's dangerous grounds and not for the weak. And definitely not territory to travel in if there's been past romantic connections at any point in time. Just asking for trouble.


for sure, way too much chance for a rebound romance to happen, mind you, that may not be a bad thing sometimes !



> Just an update. He called me to tell me about his tattoo, and was pleasant and sounded okay.


was pleased with himself, and wanted to share the moment with you perhaps.



> Today was the strangest day E.V.E.R.! Most rollercoaster rides in one day. Whoah. I'm emotionally spent.


sorry 

but it will get better, the rolloer coaster only has so many ups & downs before it start to level out a little (never ever gets flat though, but thats life


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Whenever I read about him pulling you into these debates, I feel like I'm watching a train wreck and I'm not even well-versed on the 180. He's like playing you like a fiddle. Dragging you into a conversation then insisting he doesn't want it. He's bizarre! He's full of suppressed anger and fixing things to have reason to blame you. Personally a break should be a break - quit texting IMing and talking on the phone! He can call kids or about them but keep it to that. These conversations accomplish nothing but frustration and may be te guaranteed end of the marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're right. And for the most part, I've resisted, but I DO need to keep my resolve. I guess the fact that he does start some conversations, even though he doesn't want them, shows that he still cares and wants to communicate, but doesn't know how? Not sure what to think of it. I've cut down communication a lot in the last week. I told him we need to stop with the conversations. I asked him for a truce and a cooling off period, he said he didn't know. But this has to happen. My job for the next few weeks is to just listen and not make any points or defend anything. I know it's just pushing him away, so I have to do the exact opposite. It's all so confusing, but it is what it is. Sigh.


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## Neil

LonelyNLost said:


> You're right. And for the most part, I've resisted, but I DO need to keep my resolve. I guess the fact that he does start some conversations, even though he doesn't want them, shows that he still cares and wants to communicate, but doesn't know how? Not sure what to think of it. I've cut down communication a lot in the last week. I told him we need to stop with the conversations. I asked him for a truce and a cooling off period, he said he didn't know. But this has to happen. My job for the next few weeks is to just listen and not make any points or defend anything. I know it's just pushing him away, so I have to do the exact opposite. It's all so confusing, but it is what it is. Sigh.



I dont' buy this A business.

Anyone who read the page after page of her original thread can see this stems from an EA he had 4 years ago. unfortunately he has beaten himself up over it, and it snowballed into insecurity etc etc.

Lonely, has been over the last couple of months or so, been pushing so hard and questioning everywhere and has made the situation worse (I am sure you will acknowledge that).

Your Therapist more or less asked you to do what I thought you should do. Listen, don't question and don't put your side on it.

He is after all, after all this, starting to open up a little (would you honestly have thought you would have got a 15 text message with some feelings in it a few weeks ago?)

Calm things right down. Let him have some fun with his kids, let him see what He will be missing too.

AND, i repeat what I said earlier, YOU concentrate on YOU (your kids will definately feel your unhapiness and it will rub off on them), don't have that on your conscience.

Do fun things yourself, and look to the future, and please, leave off on the realtionship talk, you can see in all your threads that as soon as it starts, you keep chipping in with questions, trying to validate things for yourself, don't. You can get through this, but if you don't control you, it Will all go pear shaped.

I truly hope you can see this


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## Neil

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/22222-my-h-needs-5-days-away-find-himself-how-do-i-proceed-8.html#post265677

This was my original reply in your other thread...

Only difference is in my opinion, he found "one ball" by leaving to his mothers.

You still talk about the relationship even though he brings it up, then you start asking questions...

I feel if you continue to ask questions (i know you want answers, but your best bet now is playing cool) he will find "his other ball", and then you have lost it.

Maybe when you get to the point when you think, I am not fighting this no more, will you be able to supress your urges, and maybe thats the point when you both begin to re-connect, idk, but you really do need to stop seeking answers, you will get them eventually.

just a couple of words to keep in your mind

CALM, PATIENCE and most of all CONTROL (as in yourself)


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## AmImad

Lonely, I see myself in you 3 months ago, I know where you are and and I hate that I can't help you see what you're doing, we tell you/advise you, but you like me, have to do it your way, and I understand I really do. It's so easy for us to say learn from our mistakes do it this way, do it that way...

When I first posted, I was so confused, plan a, plan b, 180, argh I didn't know whether I was coming or going it was an information overload, I was reading constantly googling my situation, taking all of the positive things from everything, I had people telling me to support him, be nice, people telling me to cut him out.... I didn't know what the hell I was doing!

We are outsiders looking in, we see things so differently because we are not emotionally attached to your situation, you want soooo much for your marriage to work, you don't want to think bad of your H I've been there.. One day you'll hate him, the next you'll love him, you'll think "He wouldn't do that to us, he loves me.." Yeah I still do the same.. 

I hear the words, but I see his face, the way he looks at me, the way he flirts makes jokes.. but he still walks away at the end of the day.. and I think whatever happened to the 15 years we spend together, how can you turn it off? I have him tell me he's not good enough for me and the kids, that I can do better... blah blah blah... before I used to say NO! You're the best etc.. now I know thats what he wants to hear for his ego.. 

I'm not telling you your H is having an affair, or that he is a bad person, but for you Darling your own self preservation, you need to take a step back, tell him you love him, but you can't do this any more.

Work on yourself and your beautiful kids, you may be back with your H in a matter of weeks.. you may not, but by doing the 180, you'll be stronger for yourself.. if you're together, you'll be a better wife for it.. if not.. you'll be a better woman x

I'm sorry for the waffle, I'm known for it, my hearts in the right place honest xxx


----------



## Jellybeans

Did you email the ex husband yet????


----------



## LonelyNLost

Thank you everyone. You guys are right. I feel the same way about the situation, it's hard for anyone else to truly gauge it, unless they are in the same boat. And no one else truly is. Even our situations that seem parallel, have lots of intricacies and differences. We all bring our own needs and faults with us to our relationships. Our spouses might react similarly, or we might have similar issues, and even though a lot of what's going on with us has the earmarks of an A, it could be one of those small percentages that isn't.

Neil, thank you thank you thank you. I got a lot of good advice in that thread, and somehow a lot of people that posted there for me had some insight. I started to understand. But then went back to my old mode.  I get it now, I do. I have to let there be positives, because I didn't understand how everything I did was seen as a negative. I thought I was helping him, but I was just making him feel worse. I'm working on a note to him to validate his feelings. 

I felt that our conversation last night after he got his new tattoo was good, upbeat, light, but maybe because he was all adrenaline rushed from the tattoo? Idk. But I can see now how defensive he is, even in texts. He used to faithfully send me a text in the morning to say good morning and he loves me and to have a nice day. Now it's not all the time or not in the morning. He didn't send one this morning, so I just sent one saying I hope he has a good day. That's all it said. And he replied that he was so busy at work and it was just calming down, which sounds like his excuse for not texting, even though I didn't question it. I really hope I can see things with a different light now and it helps me.

Jelly, no I didn't email the ex. Like I said, I could be blind, but I don't think there's much to that situation. My mind wanders and all, and I waffle on that, but I just don't know. Point is, no matter if he's having an EA, or whatever, the bottom line and problem is our interactions at this point. I've got to work on that. Blowing up or causing more problems with my insecurity is not going to get me anywhere. Not saying I might not resort to that in the future, but I'd hate to nail the coffin shut at this point.


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## Jellybeans

Why are you waiting to send the ex an email? It could help you immensely!!! 

You keep saying you "could" be blind or fall in the "small percentage" that he isn't having an affair but w/o knowing, you'll be kept in the dark. 

Knowledge is power. The truth sets you free. If it's nothing, then you will get your relief. If it is, then you know what you're facing. 

IT DOES matter if he's having an affair. An affair SHOULD NEVER be ignored or left alone.


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## vivea

I don't think that lonely is ready for 180 yet.Look at AmI..she was not ready either and all of a sudden it came naturally to her .
I believe you have to feel it,you can't force it on you!

Lonely,H. was the same we've had good conversations while separated. He would tell me that things will work out,that we won't be happy if we divorce ..he would get my hopes up and than the next 10 days he switches back off. Texts me he can't call he's very busy at work...constantly excuses with how busy work is,how tired he is....Well miraculously now he calls me after work and is always pleasant,even when super tired he is having a nice tone.
He will come around honey! I do think you have to give him a deadline of some sort...for me it worked as you know... If he doesn't feel any pressure he can stay in that mode for a while .Think about it!


----------



## Jellybeans

Viv, you're right--one does have to "feel" it (re: 180s) but the longer she turns a blind eye, the worse chances for reconciliation are for her marriage. 

If it's an affair--the longer it goes on, the worse for recovery, the more it grows into emotional attachment and is harder to battle. 

My stbx also pulled the same thing... telling me he wanted to divorce but then saying things like "I love you and I am NOT happy at all." But words are just pretty little sentences. ACTIONS are what counts. 

Right now Lonely's husband is cake-eating because she isn't putting her foot down.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Why are you waiting to send the ex an email? It could help you immensely!!!
> 
> You keep saying you "could" be blind or fall in the "small percentage" that he isn't having an affair but w/o knowing, you'll be kept in the dark.
> 
> Knowledge is power. The truth sets you free. If it's nothing, then you will get your relief. If it is, then you know what you're facing.
> 
> IT DOES matter if he's having an affair. An affair SHOULD NEVER be ignored or left alone.


But what would happen IF there were nothing going on? That in this state, as Neil said, caused by years of him feeling not good enough and now us falling into this place because of my mistrust and not listening (yes he played a huge role too), and then I snoop around MORE and it pushes him to the breaking point? I can't risk that. I might send him a message to call me at some point, but if any of her stories are partially true, then he would use it as ammo. I'm trying this for now. It really makes sense. All the accusing and mistrust just pushes him further away.

Plus, if it is an EA, he KNOWS I'm suspicious. And the red flags are almost too obvious, and my H is no dummy. I see where you're coming from, trust but verify, but I just have a bad feeling about contacting the stbx. What he's carrying is guilt, but I don't think it's of this kind.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> But what would happen IF there were nothing going on?
> 
> 
> Plus, if it is an EA, he KNOWS I'm suspicious. And the red flags are almost too obvious, and my H is no dummy.


If there is nothing going on, then GREAT! 

If there is and you don't know about it, that is waaaaay worse. 

If it's an EA and your husband KNOWS you're suspicious, he will just cover it up better. And the longer it goes on--the worse for your marriage. Know that. You say you don't want to "risk" anything but every day you are putting your M at risk by not knowing.


----------



## LonelyNLost

vivea said:


> He would tell me that things will work out,that we won't be happy if we divorce ..he would get my hopes up and than the next 10 days he switches back off. Texts me he can't call he's very busy at work...constantly excuses with how busy work is,how tired he is....Well miraculously now he calls me after work and is always pleasant,even when super tired he is having a nice tone.
> He will come around honey! I do think you have to give him a deadline of some sort...for me it worked as you know... If he doesn't feel any pressure he can stay in that mode for a while .Think about it!


Wow, my H isn't THAT wishy washy. He just says a lot of I don't know. He doesn't want to give false hope, and he is really fearful of failing more since he already feels like a failure. Here's an example text:
_
"I do want our marriage to work yet I am lost at how to make that happen."

"I want the us that I knew, don't know how to get there, afraid we can't."

"I want us to work, I lake faith right now. I pray some time apart will pull us back, but I'm not gonna feed myself or you with false hope until it's real."

"I'm not afraid to talk to you, I'm afraid of where the conversation will lead. It's not you, it's the situation that annoys me. I have so little patience, I am pessimistic, uncertainty sucks." 

"I do love you, though you don't see that. I'm sorry I make you feel so unloved. There isn't a lot of positive right now. It all sucks."_

This is all just from the last 2 weeks. He sends me emails and they are heartfelt. I don't think he's jerking me around. It all really makes sense now, and I hope I can make him see that I truly didn't get it. I do now. I know what he means when he says he has no fight left and he's tired of defending himself. I didn't see that he actually WAS defending himself because he didn't feel listened to. 

Viv, there's no way to give a time line. That's one of his things about me, that I have these expectations and he can't live up to them. I mean, eventually I might give a timeline, but for now I just need to show him I understand and am willing to change. He's never said the D word, but when he gets angry or frustrated he acts like it's over. But he won't say it is. He said that's too final. He also tells me hope fades in and out, but when I asked what triggers it either way he couldn't answer.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> If there is nothing going on, then GREAT!
> 
> If there is and you don't know about it, that is waaaaay worse.
> 
> If it's an EA and your husband KNOWS you're suspicious, he will just cover it up better. And the longer it goes on--the worse for your marriage. Know that. You say you don't want to "risk" anything but every day you are putting your M at risk by not knowing.


I get that. But I really don't think he'd knowingly get involved in something like that and string me along. Especially after the hurt he inflicted on me with the EA 4 years ago. I'm still pondering everything, but he's like a wounded animal right now, afraid to come out. And I need him to come out.


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## AmImad

Lonely, those sentances were pretty much written word for word by my H  Protect yourself sweety, thats all I am saying xxx


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## LonelyNLost

AmImad said:


> Lonely, those sentances were pretty much written word for word by my H  Protect yourself sweety, thats all I am saying xxx


Don't tell me that!  I'm hoping it's not too late. I just feel like we CAN make it out of this. Somehow. 

What was going in with you guys before he left? I know he hopped a plane a month later to meet up with the OW, and that he was mean to you, but when did things go bad? When did he change? Does he still say these things?


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## AmImad

Sweety, like I said we are in different situations!

As far as I was concerned we were all good, at the end of Aug he whisked me away to Dubai for a long weekend for our 5th wedding anni, had an amazing time, came back and a few days later he was talking to her.... I still don't understand it to this day..

He came back from Oz, everything seem rosy for him, a week later she dumped him and he started building me up and knocking me down.. 

We spent lovely weekends together for a month and a half to the point we agreed to hold hands, kiss act naturally, but I was making the effort he wasn't he said he was confused... blah blah..

Then I've had Im not good enough for you and the kids.. well the same as you have..

But no he doesn't tell me he loves me any more, he did a week ago, before I had my op, not since..


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## LonelyNLost

AmImad said:


> Sweety, like I said we are in different situations!
> 
> As far as I was concerned we were all good, at the end of Aug he whisked me away to Dubai for a long weekend for our 5th wedding anni, had an amazing time, came back and a few days later he was talking to her.... I still don't understand it to this day..
> 
> He came back from Oz, everything seem rosy for him, a week later she dumped him and he started building me up and knocking me down..
> 
> We spent lovely weekends together for a month and a half to the point we agreed to hold hands, kiss act naturally, but I was making the effort he wasn't he said he was confused... blah blah..
> 
> Then I've had Im not good enough for you and the kids.. well the same as you have..
> 
> But no he doesn't tell me he loves me any more, he did a week ago, before I had my op, not since..


Hmmm, really weird. It's like he's mad at you or something because it didn't work out with the OW. :scratchhead: 

Crank sent me a website about depression, and I was looking at it. It's really hitting home. Just not sure if he'd read it or see the parallels. Just wish SOMETHING would change for the better. He's confusing the heck out of me. Now he's not really responding to my text messages that are upbeat and light. I don't get it.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Hmmm, really weird. It's like he's mad at you or something because it didn't work out with the OW. :scratchhead:
> 
> Crank sent me a website about depression, and I was looking at it. It's really hitting home. Just not sure if he'd read it or see the parallels. Just wish SOMETHING would change for the better. He's confusing the heck out of me. Now he's not really responding to my text messages that are upbeat and light. I don't get it.


Have you given up on the 180? Your best results were when you didn't initiate contact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Have you given up on the 180? Your best results were when you didn't initiate contact.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're right. I don't know what I should do. I think some of the 180 works, but he has my son tonight. I also just wanted to have positive interactions. Last night was good. Today I just texted him to ask if he had taken a picture of our daughter bowling yesterday because I wanted to see the cute bowling shoes. He replied that he had tried but it came out bad so he deleted it and I replied that I guess she needs to go bowling again so I can see the tiny shoes. Then he sent me a picture of his parent's bird, and I replied to that asking a question about it. He didn't respond. But then I feel I broke the 180. Damn facebook does those "memorable status updates" now on the side of the page, and it always picks my H's statuses! And today, right there was "thankful for my wonderful wife and two adorable kids. Nuff said!" from a year and a half ago. I told him I hated facebook. He didn't respond. So after awhile I just sent "ok, guess I will ttyl." I know, a mistake in retrospect.  Then he called and told me to delete facebook. So that clearly wasn't the way to go. But he had left to go to the store so he talked to me for a moment but he didn't have our son so I couldn't tell him goodnight. Now I have to talk to him again in a little while. 

This uncertainty is killing me. Little by little, anxiety and stress are taking me over. I want to see the light at the end of the tunnel! Back to 180 I go. But I need to say goodnight to my son, so hope I don't have to initiate that. I hate this. I want my family back under one roof, where we belong. I do need to send him an email though to communicate what the counselor told me. Haven't done that yet. Still trying to figure out what to say and how. Might need you all to proofread it!


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> You're right. I don't know what I should do. I think some of the 180 works, but he has my son tonight. I also just wanted to have positive interactions. Last night was good. Today I just texted him to ask if he had taken a picture of our daughter bowling yesterday because I wanted to see the cute bowling shoes. He replied that he had tried but it came out bad so he deleted it and I replied that I guess she needs to go bowling again so I can see the tiny shoes. Then he sent me a picture of his parent's bird, and I replied to that asking a question about it. He didn't respond. But then I feel I broke the 180. Damn facebook does those "memorable status updates" now on the side of the page, and it always picks my H's statuses! And today, right there was "thankful for my wonderful wife and two adorable kids. Nuff said!" from a year and a half ago. I told him I hated facebook. He didn't respond. So after awhile I just sent "ok, guess I will ttyl." I know, a mistake in retrospect.  Then he called and told me to delete facebook. So that clearly wasn't the way to go. But he had left to go to the store so he talked to me for a moment but he didn't have our son so I couldn't tell him goodnight. Now I have to talk to him again in a little while.
> 
> This uncertainty is killing me. Little by little, anxiety and stress are taking me over. I want to see the light at the end of the tunnel! Back to 180 I go. But I need to say goodnight to my son, so hope I don't have to initiate that. I hate this. I want my family back under one roof, where we belong. I do need to send him an email though to communicate what the counselor told me. Haven't done that yet. Still trying to figure out what to say and how. Might need you all to proofread it!


I'm not one of the crowd that's certain he's cheating. But for whatever reason he is stressed by you. I would call to say goodnight to your son and nothing else. If he initiates a conversation about anything other than kids, 'I don't have a lot of time right now and just want to say goodnight to son'
Let him miss you. Let him chase you for more than a day. Let him wonder what you're up to and why you're so damn happy and in a hurry when you talk. Cheating or not he's playing a sick game of baiting you into a conversation then being annoyed or whiny when you follow his lead. Aren't you mad yet? He f***** up and you told him plain as day how to fix it (delete her off fb and no contact) and he whines he can't make you happy? You TOLD him how, he chooses not to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> I'm not one of the crowd that's certain he's cheating. But for whatever reason he is stressed by you. I would call to say goodnight to your son and nothing else. If he initiates a conversation about anything other than kids, 'I don't have a lot of time right now and just want to say goodnight to son'
> Let him miss you. Let him chase you for more than a day. Let him wonder what you're up to and why you're so damn happy and in a hurry when you talk. Cheating or not he's playing a sick game of baiting you into a conversation then being annoyed or whiny when you follow his lead. Aren't you mad yet? He f***** up and you told him plain as day how to fix it (delete her off fb and no contact) and he whines he can't make you happy? You TOLD him how, he chooses not to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, it's weird, he called soon after my text, but he was in his truck alone on the way to the store, so I couldn't talk to our son. :scratchhead: It was just small talk. Then my son called later and H grabbed the phone from him when he was done. I think he might have wanted to talk to our daughter but she was in the bath. He then said he'd talk to me later on, which sounded like later that night, and I said "tonight?" and he said "no, tomorrow". This morning he dropped him off but didn't come into my classroom. But he did send me a text telling me to have a good day and thanks for letting him spend the night and they had fun. But no ILY, though he says it in person and most of the time on the phone. 

I am mad. But I'm also hurt, uncertain, and scared. I can't bring up the issue of the ex on facebook, that would be something to do once he decides to stay in the marriage if that happens. Not sure if you saw my post earlier, but I think the counselor pinpointed the issue with us communicating. We are both being defensive, but for different reasons. He thinks he's opening up and communicating and I see that it's the depression talking and try to talk some sense into him, and he doesn't feel heard. He doesn't feel like I listen to him, and he feels like I tell him he's wrong for feeling or thinking the way he does. It stresses him out. The article I found last night hits the nail on the head. A lot of this is the depression. I'm just not sure what to do about that. 

He's said he misses "us" but not recently. I don't know if he's going to see or think clearly with the depression. He sees me acting happy and thinks I'm better off without him. I don't think he's cheating, especially after reading that article.


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## LonelyNLost

Anyone have any advice for what to say in a letter where I acknowledge that I haven't been "listening" to him and I validate the way he feels? I need to let him know that I understand now that he doesn't feel "heard" and I want to listen. I also want him to know that I understand that this is what's lead to our hostile interactions and the arguing, because we both feel defensive. I need him to open up the lines of communication, and feel comfortable talking to me. Because right now he's just closing off more and more and detaching. 

I'm also really weak. He called right before the kids went to bed and sounded all down. I texted him "smile.  you sounded down." and he didn't respond. Then I texted again later asking if he saw a news story. I need something to pop up on my phone telling me not to send a message, because I can't control myself! Aaaaahhhh! I also tried to call but he didn't answer. Texted back that he was in the shower. I've gone 2 days without any relationship talk, but I wish I knew where he stood and what he's thinking. I hate this separation business.


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## Jellybeans

Did you contact OW's H yet?

You aren't weak. Stop thinking that way.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Did you contact OW's H yet?
> 
> You aren't weak. Stop thinking that way.


No, I don't think I should. Seriously, read this article. It was eye opening for me. All the things I've heard are right here. HE'S DEPRESSED. He's not cheating. This coupled with the fact that he doesn't feel listened to, and I don't trust him, has snowballed into the situation we're in. 

Stop Being Tortured by Your Own Thoughts - Joseph M. Carver, PhD

I just don't know how to get him to read this, and if he did read it, I'm not sure he'd identify immediately. :scratchhead: And I'm terrified of the fact that he is detaching from me. He's telling himself he can't make me happy and he is accepting that he failed at marriage. I feel like I need to do something. NOW! But I'm trying to 180.


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## anx

Try to get him to read it. If you have to, put important words behind how you tell him.


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## Babyheart

LonelyNLost said:


> Anyone have any advice for what to say in a letter where I acknowledge that I haven't been "listening" to him and I validate the way he feels? I need to let him know that I understand now that he doesn't feel "heard" and I want to listen. I also want him to know that I understand that this is what's lead to our hostile interactions and the arguing, because we both feel defensive. I need him to open up the lines of communication, and feel comfortable talking to me. Because right now he's just closing off more and more and detaching.
> 
> I'm also really weak. He called right before the kids went to bed and sounded all down. I texted him "smile.  you sounded down." and he didn't respond. Then I texted again later asking if he saw a news story. I need something to pop up on my phone telling me not to send a message, because I can't control myself! Aaaaahhhh! I also tried to call but he didn't answer. Texted back that he was in the shower. I've gone 2 days without any relationship talk, but I wish I knew where he stood and what he's thinking. I hate this separation business.


google "Affaircare" that website has a bunch of sample letters that will give you some ideas. 

You need to stop texting him though. Next time you want to, put the phone down for 10 minutes, then if you really want to send it do. But stop doing it on the spur of the moment.


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> Try to get him to read it. If you have to, put important words behind how you tell him.


Give me some ideas. What do you mean by important words? I was thinking I'd just send him the link, because printing it out and handing it to him seems a little bit like shoving it in his face. I can't give timelines, ultimatums, or even say, "hope you can identify with this." I guess I'm just at a loss on how to get him to read it. He did say he'd read whatever. 

I'm going to validate his feelings and encourage him to read the link in two separate interactions. 



Babyheart said:


> google "Affaircare" that website has a bunch of sample letters that will give you some ideas.
> 
> You need to stop texting him though. Next time you want to, put the phone down for 10 minutes, then if you really want to send it do. But stop doing it on the spur of the moment.


I know, I need to stop texting. I don't grab my phone and text on impulse, I do usually sit and ponder it for a bit. 

Does affaircare have letters for non-infedility related issues?


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## Babyheart

Yeah they have a good selection of letters. Might give you some ideas at least.


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## Babyheart

I just read that link. My H for a long time was waking up at 4am or so, and has commented that he cannot get himself to stop going over things. I knew he was depressed, even though he denies it. Shame it got as far as it did for us though. 
Try to get your husband some help.


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## anx

Something almost epic in tone.

"I know we are going through a very rough time. I am still committed to us and you. I really want you to read this. I know things are bad and you don't even know if you want to be with me, but please read this for what is left of us."

It depends on where you are at though. You probably know what he will respond to better than the rest of us.

What you said might be better. Validate his emotions and send him a link.


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> Something almost epic in tone.
> 
> "I know we are going through a very rough time. I am still committed to us and you. I really want you to read this. I know things are bad and you don't even know if you want to be with me, but please read this for what is left of us."
> 
> It depends on where you are at though. You probably know what he will respond to better than the rest of us.
> 
> What you said might be better. Validate his emotions and send him a link.


anx, you are the best.  I really like what you wrote. Maybe I'll do a sort of combo thing. I could validate and send that link together. Hmmm. Something to think about.  I know it's not very 180, but what's right for one situation isn't always right for another. And it's my marriage. I really want it to work out.


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## LonelyNLost

Babyheart said:


> Yeah they have a good selection of letters. Might give you some ideas at least.


Babyheart, did you mean taking some from the sample consequences letters, here? Sample Consequences Letters I can see taking some from several of these. They are very heartfelt. Sort of a last ditch. Right now, he's calling me to small talk, and texting occasionally. "Taking it one day at a time" he says, but not sure if he's talking about life or our relationship. 

Do you think I should send the depression link to him in the same letter where I validate his feelings and empathize with how he feels and tell him I'm sorry for not being a better listener?


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## Babyheart

Yes that's it.

I think that sounds good, hard to know what is the right thing to do though.


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## LonelyNLost

Babyheart said:


> Yes that's it.
> 
> I think that sounds good, hard to know what is the right thing to do though.


Ain't that the truth!


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## Neil

keep your head, i can sympathise where depression is concerned.

I would take your time with this letter/email, don't try to rush it. Even if it takes you another 2 or 3 days to put it together and you carry on tearing your hair out at the situation.

One thing to keep in your mind, is that whatever you send, may have big outcomes to it (similarly it may do nothing, as depression will certainly make half the letter not sink in).

By all means, take little snip bits from a number of sites, prepare it like a resume, read over it, and certainly pop it on here before sending it.

But I will say again (Not wanting to sound i'm getting on at you), but your temporarilly (hopefully) seperated, but it seems you are both in contact more or less constantly, and neither of you can think about things whilst the amount of contact you haev is ongoing.

Its hard, very hard, but he is still giving you signs that he doesn't want out completely (Take comfort in that).

Depression is in some cases, worse than an affair, because with an affair you can make sense of it all, with depression, its hit and miss constantly.

Just remember, take care of YOU and KIDS. If your husband starts to give you more "feelings" like the other day, don't try and put words in his head or reason with him in terms of WHY he is like that. Just listen, and tell him that you appreciate his honesty and trying to open up, and offer to help him in ways that HE FEELS would help him (This will get him thinking about you in terms of offering help, and may also get him to think of ways for you to help). Kinf of puts some of it in his court, but with a sense of "she wants to help".

I don't feel you are down a one way street yet, but I will be honest, if you don't play things right, you will amplify it beyond repair (for him anyway).

Keep your Chin up, and try to put your happiness first for a change


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks, Neil. I know everything I do or don't do right now matters big time. We are in constant contact, but pretty much at his initiation. I may text once in awhile, but for the most part it is him. And I don't truly know if he is calling for ME, or if it's the kids, or if he's using the kids as an excuse to talk to me. I just don't know. Last night he called when leaving work to "check in", but then wanted to get off the phone. But then about 10 minutes later he called me back and we small talked. It was weird. Then when he called to say goodnight to the kids he was pretty brief with me. Said goodnight, I said goodnight, then I didn't hang up and he didn't either, and he said "love you". Very awkward. 

Do you think I should tell him we need no contact for a period of time? I just fear that he will see this as me not wanting him. And I think that, hopefully, these neutral interactions will help him feel that we can communicate. The talks are not about us at all, since Monday's blow up. It's more or less how friends would talk. I'm afraid to cut him off and leave him to his thoughts. His 5 days away like that ended up tragic. He convinces himself that I am better off without him and fixates on the negative. He told me a few weeks ago that he'll be set in this mindframe, and then the next minute he needs to hear my voice. He truly doesn't understand what's happening with him. The link to that article really opened my eyes and helped me understand. I just don't know if it would really register with him in this state.

I will work on that letter and bring it by for a proofread. Will probably be tomorrow since I'm off. And then we are both off the next day but he'll have the kids, and if he wanted to talk, we could. I really feel like I understand more than I did, and for that I'm thankful. I am just so fearful that I've already pushed him too far away.


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## Neil

LonelyNLost said:


> Do you think I should tell him we need no contact for a period of time? I just fear that he will see this as me not wanting him.


I kinda agree with you here, I wouldn't say this myself, as he still contacts you to hear you, just keep in the back of your mind, Don't push.

I just think in a depressed state, if you said that you validate everything he thinks of himself. (my belief anyway). If he goes off on one at any point, then suggest it. But only suggest it if you can pull it off.

I know it doesn't do you any good, but if he knows you want to support him through this, in the long run he will thank you for it. But what that doesn't mean is to turn it back round and initiate contact. 

I feel at the moment, all you can work on is trying to build yourself back up, but at the same time, be their if he needs it.

Keep the conversations about fun times, absolutely avoid negatives, and if the conversation warrents it and you can compare something he says to a fun time you have had as a family (and say it happily and meaningful, saying it sad will just have him thinking your hurting, and again validating his feelings).

One for the future...
If you can stay positive, and have a few days/couple of weeks of positive interation without negativity, drop one in about doing something with the kids, and invite him along. A fun day in the park for instance. Nothing will connect you both more than positive experiences especially around the kids. 

At the moment its all about controlling your emotions, and showing him that life can be positive. Once he sees that he may eventually see that one day, you can put all this behind you all.


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## turnera

I just read this thread and I have to tell you that you need to seriously work on your need to win. Up until the very last conversation you posted, every single conversation you had with him ended up with him having to defend himself. YOU put him in that position. YOU are nagging at him, you are constantly telling him what he does wrong. Of course he's depressed - nothing he does is ever good enough.

Have you read the material at marriagebuilders.com? It talks about Emotional Needs and Love Busters. All those conversations you posted? Love Busters. Big time. Every time you LB your husband, you poke another hole in his 'love bucket.' You may try to fill some of his ENs into the bucket, but you've poked so many holes in it that every EN you meet just flows right back out of all those holes. There's no way you could ever make him happy enough, until you stop all the LBing.

One of men's usually top ENs is admiration; for women, not so much. Men need to feel good; they need to know their wife admires them. Every time you belittle him, you have just told him you don't admire him. Over time, he KNOWS you don't admire him, because all you ever do is criticize, pick fights, try to make him apologize to you or admit he's wrong. Who wants to be in that environment?

Your IC is right:
_My therapist is wanting me to focus on being a better listener and not stating my side...biting my lip. Validate his feelings and show i understand._

This is ALL you should be concentrating on now, for the next 2 or 3 months. He does not feel safe around you. You have replaced his mom as the woman who punishes him. He can't feel love for you right now, because all he feels is bad.

If you can go 2 or 3 months without dragging him into one of those conversations like you posted, you MAY have a chance, you MAY make him feel safe enough to be around you.


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## vivea

That is what i did with my husband .i do believe he had mild depression and self esteem issues also he had a lot of stress from work at that time.
He did go to a psychiatrist and had a few sessions. He had problems with lying and all of our problems came from there...BUT i stopped fighting with him that his lies caused me to act the way i did.I took different approach ,recognized that he didn't do it intentionally to hurt me all the time,i really did look from another angle and understood the situation.told him that ,offered to help him ,told him that we will fight this together ,that i'll be understanding and will support him . I stopped the blame game 2 months before he came to his senses.He opened up and started telling me things,i did not react to them at all...he obviously saw a change in me as well.
But the biggest thing is that I did validate his feelings ,I think this is very important!!!
You know your H. better you have to know a way to talk to him and tell him exactly that ...that you will be there for him, that you will support him and you will get through this together and be stronger than ever.


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## LonelyNLost

Neil said:


> I feel at the moment, all you can work on is trying to build yourself back up, but at the same time, be their if he needs it.
> 
> Keep the conversations about fun times, absolutely avoid negatives, and if the conversation warrents it and you can compare something he says to a fun time you have had as a family (and say it happily and meaningful, saying it sad will just have him thinking your hurting, and again validating his feelings).


Thanks, Neil, your thinking is along the same line as mine. As much as he'll let me be around him, I'll make it fun and pleasant. He's here now, and he's been joking a little. I was a little short on the phone because he started in on me about not calling him today to arrange for him to come over tonight. 



turnera said:


> I just read this thread and I have to tell you that you need to seriously work on your need to win. Up until the very last conversation you posted, every single conversation you had with him ended up with him having to defend himself. YOU put him in that position. YOU are nagging at him, you are constantly telling him what he does wrong. Of course he's depressed - nothing he does is ever good enough.


Wow, that was harsh. Not sure how you can decide that I'm nagging and telling him what he does wrong and that I made him depressed. I really don't think I'm that bad of a wife, actually. I've admitted that I need to work on validating his thoughts and feelings before sharing my own. I don't have a need to win, I have a strong desire to save my marriage. It's not about winning arguments, it's about seeing the positives. I guess I don't see what I say or how I say something that makes him defend himself. Would love for the specifics to be pointed out to me. Help me out here.



vivea said:


> But the biggest thing is that I did validate his feelings ,I think this is very important!!!
> You know your H. better you have to know a way to talk to him and tell him exactly that ...that you will be there for him, that you will support him and you will get through this together and be stronger than ever.


Our H's sound very similar! VERY! I will work very hard on this, and hopefully he'll let me in enough that he notices it and gets help. I hold out some hope.


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## LonelyNLost

Ok, wow, I messed up. Last night was bad. We had discussed, before separating, him coming on Friday nights to hang with the kids while I go out. My mom was in town so I was going to go out with her and he wasn't comfortable being around her. He came over after work, starts helping with chores. Then when I say my mom's on the way he suddenly needs to go to the pet store and doesn't take the kids. I call him while there and he's talking to someone on the other line. He tells me he was talking to his mom. But it was weird, because the kids love to go to the petstore. 

Anyhow, I go out with my mom and he's all asking what time I'll be home. He starts getting huffy with me at 10, and I say I'll be home around 11. Well, we head to the house at 11:30, and his motorcycle is on the sidewalk ready to go. I drop my mom down the street and take her car. She walks up and he asks where I am, and she just says she went for a ride. So he leaves the house, and I'm on the way to his parent's house where he's supposed to stay. You'd think he'd be worried about me and if I was okay, but no. I call him at 11:50pm and he's on the phone ALREADY. So, I lose it and I call the ex gf that I suspect an EA with. I let it ring twice then hang up. He then tries to call me twice. I don't answer. 

I go to his parents and sit in the driveway. He pulls up and gets out all angry. He says, "Nice of you to answer when I call. I want to know why I'm driving along talking to bff, and then I have a missed call and it's you. I call, you don't answer. Then I get a phone call from someone saying they got a call from a number with our area code and it's mine. He says he's disgusted and embarrassed that I called her and he can't believe it. He had to try to explain to someone why his wife was calling. He was so mad and yelling at me, I just said I wanted to just listen to him and let him talk. I stayed cool, and he was madder than I've ever seen. But why so mad? Because he's caught? I just don't understand. I wanted to call Nick to see if he was really talking to him, but I feel like I already know the answer. He's used him as an alibi before. H accused me of stealing his phone and getting her number out of it. I told him I got it off facebook. He told me that was crap. He also yelled that he thought we were having a cool off period but I couldn't even give him that, and then I replied that he hadn't given me a cool off period. He asked why and I said he's been calling and stuff. I got in the car to just leave, and he tried to open the passenger door so I opened it and he said, "Just so you know, I'm going to see an attorney on Thursday to figure things out!" 

I didn't cry. But I bawled my eyes out on the way home. I regretted doing that. He said he didn't care that I drove there, but the whole calling her thing bothered him more than me friend requesting her on facebook. I just feel like, why is he so damn mad if there's nothing to hide? And when I said I thought he was talking to her, you'd think he'd show me his phone to prove he wasn't. I need a voice activated recorder in his truck to catch him, because he's never going to confess. And there's a slight possibility that this is just depression, but so many things don't add up. When I'm with my mom she always convinces me he's cheating. She says he says all the things she said as a cheater when trying to justify her actions. 

I also see the other side of it, if he isn't cheating and he's constantly being accused of it. I know I've messed up big time. Largest backslide EVER. I apologize now. I should have called my friend and let her talk me down. I knew it was wrong, but I had that pit of my stomach feeling and lost control. I'm working on a long letter now, sort of like a consequence letter requesting no contact for 2 weeks. I'm still torn on whether to go no contact or not, but it's best I think for me. He called me crazy.  I know it was crazy, and I told him I was sorry and he was right last night. Haven't heard from him since.


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## Babyheart

I think getting a recorder in his truck would be good. You are never going to get the truth from him. At least this way you will know - get one ASAP. 

I hate to harp on the affair thing, but I never imagined my H would do what he is doing. He has turned our family upside down & justifies it by saying he is doing what he wants, then turns around and calls me the selfish one. Lot of similarities between how my H acts & yours.


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## AmImad

I hate to say it, but I agree with Baby  xx


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## LonelyNLost

I know gals. Am I absolutely insane for what I did? I feel like a big idiot. But then again I don't think his response was right. I mean, if the ex had a call from a number she didn't know, and it was the same area code as my H, and they are just friends, why didn't she answer it? Or just call it back? Why did she call him? I really don't believe it. I think he was talking to her. I messaged his best friend, the one he claimed to be talking to, and told him to call me. But he hasn't. He probably knows something. I mean, if I was saying I thought he was on the phone with her, why didn't he just hand his phone over to me and prove it? Not that I asked, but geez, if you are telling the truth and you can prove it, why not? 

Here's my thing, though. If he is doing something I wouldn't approve of, then I don't want him. If it turns out that he's strung me along and made me feel crazy and I've been right all along, then he can go F&ck himself. I'm better than that.


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## LonelyNLost

I guess I will post this here so you guys can see the letter I sent him. It's L.O.N.G. I just ran to his work and put it in his front seat. He probably read it about an hour ago. 

Dear H,

This is a difficult letter for me to write, one that I have been mentally working on for weeks now. I have written this letter with the true love that only a wife can have for her husband. Please read every word I have written, for it is from the heart. It is truly sad what has happened to us and our marriage. You know I love you and adore you with all of my heart, my mind and my body. When we married I thought it would be forever and have never considered that we would be apart one day. The thought that we may not grow old together truly pains me. We have had great times and we had bad times, but we had each other, and for 10 wonderful years it was enough. 

I know we’ve had problems. You have told me that you never felt good enough, that you never really felt like you made me happy. You’ve mentioned feeling like you weren’t my number one priority and that you’ve taken a backseat. You did not like that I did not fully trust you after the emotional affair, and that my insecurity drives you away. I’ve also realized that I haven’t really been listening to you, so you haven’t felt “heard”. I need to be more patient, and work on not trying to control each and every situation. I cannot change the past, but I have learnt from my mistakes and I sincerely apologize to you. I want you to know I have changed, and I am continuing to do so while improving myself. I am a better person. I make mistakes every day, but everyday I strive to be the best person I can be.

I have thought a lot about our marriage, our current situation and about where we are going. You know my thoughts and feelings. I love you, I want to be with you and work on making our marriage the best ever. I cannot guarantee it will last 50 years or 5 years, but I know that when we try, together we do well. I am ready, not to just live together but to work wholeheartedly on our marriage. We need help, we need counseling but it takes two of us, I cannot do it alone. We are both hurting over this turmoil and uncertainty. We both want a resolution. I still believe we can have a happy, loving, fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and desire we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that was the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our children's. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we said "I do". I'm not naive; I know there's been a lot of damage done. We’d likely need the help in learning better ways to communicate and meet each other's emotional needs.

You have told me you need more time and that you are very confused. You’ve told me that you feel like you’re worn down, and defeated. I feel so much for you as I know this is very difficult. You are at a crossroads in your life and feel that today's decision will affect the rest of your life. Some decisions are tough and are scary, but no one said life would be breezy, it’s supposed to be hard and painful. Then the easy times are even more delightful. I respect that you have taken time to think about your life. I wish I could help you with this, but this is yours to deal with. I just want you know I am here to listen if you need to talk. 

I also understand things a lot more, but I haven’t had the chance to share this revelation. You have been telling me lots of things, but I have finally realized that I haven’t listened. I am very sorry that you feel like nothing you do is right as far as I am concerned. I regret that I have contradicted my own requests. I know you love me and care about me; I’ve never doubted that, but I can understand how you see it that I do doubt you. I want to tell you that you ARE good enough, but understandably you have a hard time accepting that, as you feel that I’m constantly belittling you. You feel like I have these expectations that you can’t meet. I am really sorry that I make you feel that way. When you’ve attempted to open up and explain yourself, I have attempted to “correct” your thinking by injecting my viewpoint and putting my spin on things. You have perceived this as me saying you are wrong. I apologize for this, and how it made you feel like you had to defend your thoughts and feelings. I’m only realizing this now, and it makes sense. I understand why you end up frustrated and resolve to not communicate. I get it now. I do. You see yourself as a failure, and me arguing with that only reinforces it. You are an individual, entitled to your own thoughts and feelings. They are not wrong. You feel like I tell you why you do the things you do. I come off like I know more about why and what you are thinking than you do. I am wrong for that. The truth is, I don’t know. All along I’ve thought that I was a good communicator, and the problem is that I don’t listen to you and validate your thoughts and feelings. This is something I am working on being better at. I hate that you feel like you have to defend everything, but I know it’s because I defend my viewpoint. It’s only human. 

I don’t disagree with how you handle things and I respect that that’s how you deal. This is one area where we are just very different. At the surface, we are both conflict avoiders. But this adversity has brought out some other sides of each of us. While I’m the eternal optimist, you are more reserved. While I am more action-oriented, you are more hesitant and prefer to sit back and wait. These are not flaws that mean the end of a relationship. They are just things that have hindered us communicating with and understanding each other. You are not a quitter, and your reservations are justified. And my continued pushing has caused you to feel like quitting is your only option for happiness. I sincerely regret pushing you. And for this, I am deeply disappointed in myself. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to not feel listened to, and to feel like everything you do or say is taken wrong. I get why you feel like it’s easier to communicate via text or online, because there’s less of me interrupting you and telling you are wrong. I finally understand. I just pray that it’s not too late, and you give me the opportunity to be a better listener. 

After reading an article, I can identify with a lot of what you’ve said and felt. The article was about how depression can take a toll on one’s mind and life. I really never understood depression on that level, and I ‘m attaching it if you’d like to read it. Basically, stress builds up, and the seratonin your brain uses to deal with stress comes in short supply after awhile. When this happens, you are unable to deal with the stress, and your mind begins dumping. They call it the garbage truck pulling up and dumping loads and loads of pessimism and hopelessness on you. I am not qualified to diagnose you with depression, so I cannot say for sure that’s what is happening with you. I’ve urged you to get help, and have given you the benefit of the doubt on several occasions. The problem is, you will not seek help for yourself. And you are the only one that can do so. Maybe all of this stems from the depression. Maybe all of this has pushed you into depression. It’s hard to tell. But in the end, someone can only be helped if they want to be helped. I am here for you to listen to what you have to say without judging, and to support you in any way I can. You have communicated several reasons for not wanting to seek help. I respect those reasons. The fears and reservations you have are understandable. However, your actions are uncharacteristic of you and this concerns me. This is not to say that you aren’t the same person, just that you are not acting like YOU. 

I can be honest and tell you that while I understand the things that have gone wrong, and I can reflect on my part in this, there is one thing that seems to be a major holding point for you. You feel like the mistake you made four years ago has and is being used against you. You feel that you shattered my trust then, and it can never be rebuilt. You’ve acknowledged points I’ve made about this being a cycle, but we have not been able to break this cycle. It has continued to cause issues for us. I grew a lot a month ago when I finally let go of the past. I HAVE gotten over it, though there is pain associated with it. I wish you could understand that my current pain and trust issues are not based on your past actions, they are based on your present actions. I have to let you know, with 100% honesty my feelings on this. Take it as you will. I WANT to trust you so badly. I want to have faith in you and be able to believe everything that comes out of your mouth. I really do. And in the past, you’ve been willing to do what needs to be done to ensure that I don’t feel uncomfortable and insecure, maybe to a point of sacrificing yourself. That is not entirely fair to you. There is a fair amount of give and take required in this aspect of a relationship. 

In my heart, I feel like you are not being emotionally or physically unfaithful to me. But my mind tells me that at least the temptation is there. I could very well be pushing you away by my words and actions. I realize this. But I could also be totally wrong, and this is what makes this so difficult. However, despite my protests and reservations, you have chosen to continue a friendship with this one specific person. Obviously, I do not condone, or like, your friendship with her for various reasons. The top one being that it makes me uncomfortable based on deceit. You like to blame this situation on your past actions, and I understand how you feel that you shouldn’t have to prove yourself because you are doing nothing wrong. And I certainly hope that is the case. And it breaks my heart if there is really nothing to this and it has been the catalyst for a lot of this rift. Maybe I’m being too sensitive when I feel like you are choosing her over me and my feelings. But maybe you are really just fed up of me not trusting you. I hate to think that my insecurity and mistrust have driven us to this point. Of course, in the end, you make the decisions about who you will and will not be friends with. You are the only person who can make choices for you.

The past four months have been a difficult passage of time for me, the most emotionally traumatic in my life. We seemed to start recovery in the beginning, only to slip and fail again. I am still feeling the hurt and pain when I think of the gains we made, and how great it felt to be emotionally close to you again. We have somehow misplaced our foundation of trust and respect. But lately God has given me a strength that I never knew I possessed. I have grown and matured more than I have in my entire lifetime. Whereas in the past I’ve endured the hurt and pain, I now see that it is soon to drain my love for you. To preserve the love I have for you and my own sanity I have come to a decision of my own. I’m pulling back, except regarding the children and finances. This is not to punish you, it is to protect my feelings for you and our chances at reconciliation. If we continue as we are now, there would be nothing left. The pain and emptiness that I experience on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. I end up overanalyzing everything you do or say, to the point where I drive myself crazy and end up doing and saying things I regret out of desperation. My only saving grace is the thought of us being together and happy again some day. Unfortunately, I find that slowly slipping away as well. The current situation is becoming extremely stressful and hurtful for everyone. This is not an ultimatum or a threat, it is simply—me taking a step back. I know that I risk loosing you forever, but I cannot continue to spend time with you without putting pressure on you to make a decision. If you choose to come back and work on our marriage, I want to know that you have done it because you love me, not because you have felt pressured into doing it.

I hope with all my heart and soul that you will come back to me one day. I love you and you will always be very special to me. I look back through our life and I choose now to only remember the good times and learn from the bad. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I loved you before we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I do not know what the future holds for us. When I said I DO, I made a promise in front of God, you, our family and friends for life. Through better or worse. I never stopped loving you and I never forgot what a wonderful person you are and how much joy you brought me. That gave me the strength and hope to go on. I want to be your wife in every sense of the word. I want to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, share the joy of raising a family with you. I want to grow old with you and be your best friend. I hope with all of my heart that we can both put aside our harsh feelings and frustrations and see the good, and see the hope. I look at our wedding picture, and I remember the dreams and the hopes we shared. I still believe those dreams are possible. I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. With this, our true healing can begin. 

With love always and forever,

W


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## Crankshaw

a couple of tears down the cheeks !

I hope he does read the whole letter !


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## Babyheart

You made me cry too! I hope he reads it.


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## vivea

lonely...You made me cry too .You've said it so good. I've sent an email to my H.. before with pretty much the same things ,your wording is way better but I pretty much say the same.
Don't know if the email/s helped but it's not going to hurt anything.
Fingers crossed for you honey,I hope he comes to his senses. 
Hang in there!


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## turnera

Lonely, I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just sharing what I know it looks like from HIS side. Here's what you've said:

I then said, "_are you ever going to talk to me_?" and he got all defensive. _I feel like I keep messing up, but at the same time I want answers_.

_Thought you were going to call _and tell them goodnite.

_That's not exactly what I asked_ and I'm not expecting some big relationship talk. We haven't really discussed _so why are you so drained_?

do you feel like this time apart is helping you deal? _Or is it avoidance_?

one of the things that has bothered him is that I don't trust him, he always feels like he isn't good enough, and _no matter what he does I question his love for me_.

After we hung up, _I texted him "really_?" and he replied, "what did I do?" and I said "you are so emotionless in your interactions and it's hard to see that you love me. _There's nothing positive about anything you say or do"_

I then replied, "_It's hard to see it. If you love me, get help_.

I broke. I said, "_Don't you even want to hug me_, you haven't seen me for almost 2 weeks" and he says "I do want to hug you, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable or feel awkward." and _then I just walked out_. He yelled after me that he would give me a hug and _I just said, "have a nice day" and kept going_.

_I did expect him to come in and hug me_.’

sent me like 12 texts full of his feelings. It's all about how _he doesn't feel good enough, nothing he says or does is right, he can't be the person he was or I want him to be_, etc. I told him _I would talk but I'm at work now._ He says he's expressing himself that way.
He thinks he's never good enough and that that situation is what caused this one. I point out that his current actions are what caused us to be here.

He's talking about the fact that _I yelled at him for floating a month ago_ because he couldn't say whether he was committing or not.

He said: You keep telling me you have to focus on you yet you don't. _I fell like i am not good enough for you, i will never measure up to this person you saw me_ as or want me to be, and i have accepted that. It takes a lot to accept failur. You can call it self fulfilling prophecy, _tell me how wrong i am, point out every single thing i do and why_, it doesn't change the situation. _you can pointe out all the things i don't do, the way that i continue to not conform to what you think or follow your plan, all the things i don't do_, it all reinforces what i have already come to accept. i failed at my marriage, i no longer meet ur needs. i'm sorry i feel that way because _my feelings are another thing that you disagree with and you point that out to me too_. The thing is, _i even feel like i fail at my feelings cuz those are wrong in ur eyes too._ i have come to this point where communicating is harder than not, because _at least when i don't, i don't feel like i have to defend the way i feel_. It sux to have to defend myself or the way i feel at any given moment, _even when i say i love you, i have to defend that too. i don't know what to say anymore_.

it seems like_ you have a lot to say. But i am at work and this isn't a good time._

_stop attacking me. u have your version and i have mine but you're busy judging._ Avoidance is not communicating or facing issues. Not time is ever right. _Just understand_.

_Here we go with that_.

_wtf? nice of u to tell me this via text_. i appreciate ur honesty. _one day you will realize how much i love u, the hurt u caused, and what u threw away_.

Last night_ we got into it_ on the phone.

Part of his issue is that _I question that love because I don't feel his actions match his words_

He does say some crazy things when he gets in his defensive mode, and they are hard to forget. _But I'm sure I do the same to him_.

My job for the next few weeks is to just listen and _not make any points or defend anything. I know it's just pushing him away, so I have to do the exact opposite_.

_He doesn't feel like I listen to him_, and _he feels like I tell him he's wrong for feeling or thinking the way he does. It stresses him out._
I'm going to validate his feelings and encourage him to read the link in two separate interactions.


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks, guys. I cried when I read it to a friend. I don't know how he couldn't get tearful when reading it. I haven't heard from him except for a text at 8pm asking if I can please have our son call him. I had son call at 8:45, and they talked for a minute and then son said goodbye. I then hung up the phone. Yay me. 

On another note, I broke down and called our neighbors behind us. They moved in back in November, and the guy is my husband's friend of 8 years. H has pretty much shut him out. See, 4 years ago with the EA, he was one of the people telling him he's an idiot. Not sure why H is shutting everyone out, I hear that happens with depression, but it also happens when you are guilty of something. I just texted them and asked if they were home, and the guy called me and asked if I was okay and then sent his wife over. We talked for hours, and they are totally on my side. Not that I want it to be sides, but they know something is up with him and they just kept telling me I've done nothing wrong. I felt like I needed someone to know about this that is pro "us". He's going to call H tomorrow and feel him out. Not that I'm counting in it to do anything, but hopefully he opens up.


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## LonelyNLost

He deleted me off his facebook.  What a jerk. I write him that letter and that's what he does. Real mature.


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## turnera

Cheaters always shut out the people who tell them they are wrong.


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## Babyheart

Yes thats true. They do not want to be told what they have done/are doing is wrong.
So the head goes in the sand. So frustrating. especially when you know they will look back and wonder what the hell they did.


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## turnera

The thing is, if you don't address your own actions, his OW, if he has one, will continue to look like a better option. At least SHE doesn't tear him down all the time, argue with him, and make him feel bad.

If you read the material at marriagebuilders.com or at affaircare.com, you'll see that you should be uncovering the truth about the affair AND also working on yourself to make yourself the better option. MB calls it Plan A - you make YOU a welcoming option in every way except accepting the cheating. Eliminate your Love Busters - all that stuff I highlighted on the last page that you did, that is keeping him away from you, to protect himself.

The MB plan calls for getting proof of the affair, if there is one; doing a stellar Plan A, where you look great, smell great, keep the house warm and inviting when he comes, never LB him...show him the life you guys USED to have before you both started taking each other for granted, so he'll start thinking he misses that and wants to choose it. You do this for a certain time. If you find proof of the affair, you tell him you know and you want him to stop; if he refuses you expose the affair to his important people, hoping that they will convince him to stop. Then you wait. And keep up your Plan A. It also calls for getting a life; show him that you WILL have your own life if he leaves you - make friends, go out, have fun. Sometimes that's all it takes for a wayward to want to come home. (but in your case, I think it's going to take you removing your need to butt heads with him first, as you have acknowledged a couple times, as he doesn't feel safe or loved with you)

After a set time, if nothing happens, then you have to decide when to call it quits; if you go on too long waiting, you harm yourself psychologically. Eventually, if he doesn't come home, you'll have to move on and file for separation.

But that might not be necessary. The Plan A can be a powerful thing. I hope you try it.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> The MB plan calls for getting proof of the affair, if there is one; doing a stellar Plan A, where you look great, smell great, keep the house warm and inviting when he comes, never LB him...show him the life you guys USED to have before you both started taking each other for granted, so he'll start thinking he misses that and wants to choose it. You do this for a certain time. If you find proof of the affair, you tell him you know and you want him to stop; if he refuses you expose the affair to his important people, hoping that they will convince him to stop. Then you wait. And keep up your Plan A. It also calls for getting a life; show him that you WILL have your own life if he leaves you - make friends, go out, have fun. Sometimes that's all it takes for a wayward to want to come home. (but in your case, I think it's going to take you removing your need to butt heads with him first, as you have acknowledged a couple times, as he doesn't feel safe or loved with you)


I've looked at it before, but it's so hard to figure out what exactly is happening here. While talking to our friends last night, the guy was laughing and saying that it sounds just like my H. And that he can see how it could be cheating or that he's depressed and acting uncharacteristically. BUT, he says 4 years ago when he had the EA, he gave him crap about it. And he seems to be shutting him out now. He just called me to say that my H said he'll call him tonight. Hopefully he does. 

The weird thing out of all this (did you read my letter I sent him, it's on the previous page) is that I give him this heartfelt letter and acknowledge my wrongs, and he responds by deleting me and my family and friends off his facebook. I just don't get it. 

I really don't know how to uncover the affair, if there is one. Because if it's what I suspect, the woman is in Las Vegas, and we are in Florida. They would only be talking on the phone or chatting online, and emailing. I'm locked out of all of those. My only option would be buying a voice activated recorder and trying to sneak it into his truck while he was at work. But even then, his truck is so loud, would it even pick anything up? And I'd have to sneak to get it back out of his truck. Really risky. This is just all mind blowing. What would he get out of a long distance phone relationship with his ex girlfriend? It would only be enough to pull him away from his family and then what? He isn't going to move there. I guess she could possibly move here when her divorce is final. Who knows. I have a hard time thinking his parents would just accept this. 

Now, honest opinion. Do I change the locks on the house? Do I let him take his motorcycle? Do I separate finances? He hasn't contacted me at all. I don't think we're going to talk. I think this is all done. I can't see it blowing over. It is the darkest hour, and I know I'm not supposed to give up, but then again, I don't want to make any B!tch moves that make it easier for him to leave me completely. For whatever reason, me calling the ex gf the other night pissed him off to no end, even though I didn't talk to her. It doesn't make sense.


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> What would he get out of a long distance phone relationship with his ex girlfriend?


That's easy. She doesn't make him feel bad. They are in the 'dating' stage, where they are nice to each other. There's no kids to nag about, no trash to take out, no holding grudges, no telling him that he's hurting her...

She makes him feel good. So he goes looking for her on Facebook - to feel good.

You make him feel bad. So he avoids you.

That's what Plan A is for. To show him that you, too, can make him feel good.

Note that I'm not saying ignore his cheating, if he IS cheating. I'm saying you have a two-front approach to this. You have to give him a reason to come home. It sounds like right now, it's just too painful to come home - he doesn't trust you.


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> It is the darkest hour, and I know I'm not supposed to give up, but then again, I don't want to make any B!tch moves that make it easier for him to leave me completely. For whatever reason, me calling the ex gf the other night pissed him off to no end, even though I didn't talk to her. It doesn't make sense.


 It makes perfect sense. You just proved to him that you are controlling, determined to get your way, and unwilling to see his side or believe him.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> That's easy. She doesn't make him feel bad. They are in the 'dating' stage, where they are nice to each other. There's no kids to nag about, no trash to take out, no holding grudges, no telling him that he's hurting her...
> 
> She makes him feel good. So he goes looking for her on Facebook - to feel good.
> 
> You make him feel bad. So he avoids you.
> 
> That's what Plan A is for. To show him that you, too, can make him feel good.
> 
> Note that I'm not saying ignore his cheating, if he IS cheating. I'm saying you have a two-front approach to this. You have to give him a reason to come home. It sounds like right now, it's just too painful to come home - he doesn't trust you.


I can see that. It's enough of a relationship to pull him away from me, which contrary to what you believe, I am much easier on him that other wives. Every woman I've told about the whole situation can't believe how much self-control I have. I think it's too late for Plan A. This is a "if you love them set them free, and if they come back" type of a deal. However, with my H, once he sets his mind to something, it's done. The other night might have been his breaking point. So I'm going no contact for now.



turnera said:


> It makes perfect sense. You just proved to him that you are controlling, determined to get your way, and unwilling to see his side or believe him.


I'm not sure how I was controlling and determined to get my way. What was controlling? Calling and letting the phone ring twice? He way overreacted, and it's because it scared him because he is busted. So he deflects and makes it about me being crazy. I've laid off. He might be done, but one day he'll look back and realize what a fool he was. He can't handle day to day stresses, he wants to go have "fun". But he won't put forth the effort to make the day interesting. He'll get what he deserves alright.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I can see that. It's enough of a relationship to pull him away from me, which contrary to what you believe, I am much easier on him that other wives. Every woman I've told about the whole situation can't believe how much self-control I have. I think it's too late for Plan A. This is a "if you love them set them free, and if they come back" type of a deal. However, with my H, once he sets his mind to something, it's done. The other night might have been his breaking point. So I'm going no contact for now.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how I was controlling and determined to get my way. What was controlling? Calling and letting the phone ring twice? He way overreacted, and it's because it scared him because he is busted. So he deflects and makes it about me being crazy. I've laid off. He might be done, but one day he'll look back and realize what a fool he was. He can't handle day to day stresses, he wants to go have "fun". But he won't put forth the effort to make the day interesting. He'll get what he deserves alright.



Any updates? Been thinking of you today wondering how you're holding up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Any updates? Been thinking of you today wondering how you're holding up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, hun. Not much, except that he hasn't spoken to me since Friday night's debacle. I gave him that long letter yesterday by placing it in his truck. He responded to that by deleting me and my family and friends off his facebook. No word to me at all. He texted this morning asking what time he could get the kids, and I just sent them out the door. He dropped them off and left with his motorcycle as his mom brought him in her car.  Our neighbor was trying to get him to talk but he probably won't because our son told him that I was talking to the neighbor yesterday. 

I sat down and told our son today that mommy wants to work on the marriage and daddy doesn't. He was upset. I told him I wanted to be honest and if he wanted to ask questions he needed to. I also texted his mom and asked what the heck is going on and she just responded that she loved me no matter what. But she didn't say anything.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, hun. Not much, except that he hasn't spoken to me since Friday night's debacle. I gave him that long letter yesterday by placing it in his truck. He responded to that by deleting me and my family and friends off his facebook. No word to me at all. He texted this morning asking what time he could get the kids, and I just sent them out the door. He dropped them off and left with his motorcycle as his mom brought him in her car.  Our neighbor was trying to get him to talk but he probably won't because our son told him that I was talking to the neighbor yesterday.
> 
> I sat down and told our son today that mommy wants to work on the marriage and daddy doesn't. He was upset. I told him I wanted to be honest and if he wanted to ask questions he needed to. I also texted his mom and asked what the heck is going on and she just responded that she loved me no matter what. But she didn't say anything.


I feel very sad for you. It's hard not knowing where you stand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Thank, hun. I reached out to his best friend again yesterday online. He doesn't understand what is going on with H. He says he is acting out against something but won't tell him what. He said the defriending game on facebook is childish, and he won't do that to me. He went through for a third time and deleted anyone even remotely related to me. We still have some mutual friends, but they are friends of his. The only one that would maybe tell me anything is his best friend's sister. The best friend told me his whole family is ready to board a plane and go hang my H. 

Wish me luck this week with no contact. I think I need to see a doctor and get something for my anxiety so I can sleep.


----------



## Babyheart

Hang in there girl. I got a book yesterday (local bookstore closing sale - got a bag of books for $30). ANyway I thought this was good & wanted to share with you:

Life changing events take place to awaken us to our potential. They happen so we can get an ever more refined sense of who we are. They take us from being the coal to being the diamond. When the events are challenging, its all the more important to to meet it head on. The more you try to run, the more it haunts you. Its an energy drain. Its exhausting.. That life changing stuff is there to show you what you are made of.


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## turnera

Lonely, I'm not criticizing you; I'm trying to show you what you look like from his side. You can't fix things if you don't understand what's going on with him. To him, he told you she wasn't the issue, just friends, blah blah, and you went kamikaze and started harassing her with phone calls. To him, that makes you look like a nutty obsessive wife.

If you wanted to address the cheating logically and calmly, you could have exposed the affair to OW's family in a 'I want to save my marriage' way, rather than calling her and hanging up. Do you see the difference?


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## turnera

btw, you CAN still do a Plan A, if you have it in you. Going to no contact at this points leaves a bad taste in his mouth, as the last thing he remembers of you is you going nutso. 

If you'll read the material at MB - especially the book Surviving An Affair - you'll see that you need to create an image of you in his mind of the GOOD, loving, but strong wife who CAN make you the better choice, BEFORE you go dark (no contact, Plan B). It's suggested that you do this Plan A for at least 3 or 4 weeks so all his latest memories of you are of the woman he fell in love with - no LBs, no demands (except stop the affair), look and smell good, cooking the meals he loves, meeting his top ENs.

THEN, after you've set those memories in his head, THEN you write him a Plan B letter where you state that you love him, but that what you need in a marriage includes him being faithful to you, and you can't share him. When he's ready to commit to you, let you know; until then, you can't see him any more.

Instead, you went from telling him what he's doing wrong, expecting things from him, to harassing his old friend, to going dark.

Where in there is the loving wife he used to care about? In a letter? That may not be enough to remind him why he should come home.


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, boys and girls. Hold onto your pants. I got this message from his best friend this morning.  Now tell me what you think is best.

_
I'm sorry I may have worded that wrong because I know you aren't looking for anyone to take sides and I definitely don't want to shut you out. I know that if *** had any suspicion that I was talking to you that it would push him away from me and then you would lose one of the last connections you have to him. I think *** has emotionally attached himself to ****** whether it is cheating or not. He knows that what he is feeling is wrong and it is making him be driven by guilt. I wish I could go deal with ****** myself and if it gets to much further I just might have to. She was a drain on him in high school and obviously she is a drain on him now. I know I have said this before but he has some crazy nostalgia malfunction in his head. When we talk he usually tells me about what everyone from high school is doing and who is where and it is just weird. To be honest with you I could give 2 ****s less about most of the people from high school. Facebook, as useful as it is for communicating with close family and friends from a distance, is the devil when it comes to drumming up the past and *** thrives on the past. I have friends on my Facebook page that I wasn't even friends with in high school just because they saw me on ***'s page. Most of them I can't remember to save my life nor care to. It used to be your first love was a part of your history that you looked back at and laughed or whatever, and now they come back to haunt you.

I think a lot of what *** has going on is confusion. I know he loves you and the kids to death and deep down wants everything to work out. I just think there is a constant birdie in his ear making him think about bull **** he can't have back here. My biggest suggestion when all of this works itself out is to not let him do the alone Vegas trips anymore. And I don't mean "let" in the sense that you control his every move but work on doing a couples trip out here. I think if he came out here with you and didn't try to contact all of his old d-bags from high school and the idiot chicks it would be a lot more enjoyable for him to be able to show you where he grew up. He has a few girls out here from high school who are down to earth and married living their lives that are ok. I for one can't understand the ****** thing. I think if one of us can help him rid himself of ****** your life would go back to normal. He isn't cheating on you in the adulterer sense of the word but I believe he has attached himself to her emotionally. The bad part is that the more you push him about her the further you are going to push him away. He has never liked anyone telling him what he can and can't do and will do the opposite if pressured. He has this odd personality flaw that he thinks that even if he knows he is doing the wrong thing he will continue to do it if told not to. His Mom knows that and that is probably why she is being or appears to be being an enabler.

You are in a really difficult situation and I don't envy you one bit at this moment. I know where you're at because I'm in the same place for different reasons. I am dealing with another person in my wife's life and it is hard because it is her own Mother and Sister who are wrecking her. I have hit the point where I am done and not dealing with it anymore. If she really wants the family to work and really wants to get better she is going to have to do it because I'm done pushing. I think you will get to that point and he will be on his own. Sometimes that is what it takes. I can and will continue to try to help him as much as possible since I am in a different position then you are and have a little more room for pushing in a different way. Do your best not do things like call ****** or pressure him about her because that is hurting your cause even though it is really tempting. He is like a retarded rattle snake and if you corner him he will strike even though it hurts him more then it will hurt anyone else. So give him some space, let me try to talk to him. He was supposed to be calling me this weekend, he promised, and didn't so I will get back on the horn and try to do what I can. I can call Mom also and see what her take is on it because she will talk to me, I'm sure. She has to know something about what is going on with him and I really doubt she is ok with all of this. I'll send her a message later today and if she doesn't reply I'll call her in a day or so. If that doesn't work I'll call in the big guns, my Mom and my sister and *** isn't stupid and won't cross those two because he is afraid of them. But try to enjoy your life with the kids and make him realize that you and the kids lives will continue on whether he is there or not. The kids don't need this drama and he knows that. The biggest weapon you have is to not let him control you. Right now he is in control of the situation and you are falling into every trap he sets. When he leaves at night or whenever don't try to call him and don"t try to figure out who he is talking to. If you want to know if he is talking to me just call me ***-***-****. But rather then calling her just text me and ask even though I don't suggest it. Let him make his own decisions and pray he makes the right one because if pushed he won't. The best thing you can do for you and the kids right now is to plow through this with conviction and let him do what he is going to do. I know he isn't going to pick up and move here without you and the kids and she isn't going anywhere. She is a Vegas sleaze who needs her gambling drinking and club life. I'll let you know what happens and hopefully neighbor can get through to him. He talks about neighbor all the time and I'm sure between the 2 of us we can get through to him and make him make some sort of decisions in his life. He can't just continue to drag you and the kids through the mud and I don't believe that he realizes he is doing that. So if you need anything else let me know, I'm here for you guys. I wasn't the best man at your just because he asked it is because it meant something. Another good person to talk to at this point would be *****. She could probably help you also and is a good ear to vent to and I know she isn't too happy with *******, as she calls him, at this moment either. So hang tough, you"ll get through this and things will work out for you one way or another it is just hard for you to see that right _now.

WHAT NOW? DO I EVEN WANT THIS SCUMBAG? THIS IS THE SECOND EMOTIONAL AFFAIR IN 4 YEARS!


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## Oak

Whew. I am digesting all that still, plus the history. 

I guess it all depends on how you feel, and how much you are willing to take. Given the past experiences I would be wanting to see a significant effort placed on self improvement, but he doesn't seem to think he has a problem right?

I do not envy your position, but at least you got a fresh perspective on what it going on.


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## Jellybeans

I am sorry to hear this is what you learned.

I wouldn't push him at all. I would remove myself as an option completely.

And Lonely, I didn't know that was his second EA.


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## LonelyNLost

I am a freaking wreck. I'm in no contact phase, but I don't know how to proceed. I am going to speak with a lawyer. I can't let on how I know about things because I don't want him to cut off this friend. But I am really weighing my options. 

Tell him or not tell him? Call her or not call her? Ignore him? Do I ever want him back? Could I get past this?


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## Jellybeans

If you want to confront him you could say "Husband, I know you are having an inappropriate relationship with X. Either you stop all communication with her and end it OR I will take the appropriate actions including up to and filing for divorce. I will NOT live in an open marriage."

The ball will be placed in his court. 

If he can't end it with her, then you decide whether you accept being in an open marriage is ok or you move on.

Believe me, I know you want to lash out at her, she's a homewrecking jerk, but right now, I'd go more with confronting him than her (if you confront him at all).

He does NOT have you or your kids' best interest right now.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> btw, you CAN still do a Plan A, if you have it in you. Going to no contact at this points leaves a bad taste in his mouth, as the last thing he remembers of you is you going nutso. Except he knows I'm not nuts. He knows I'm mighty intelligent and know him better than he knows himself. Going no contact at this point, without letting him know I KNOW, is the best. I need to find a lawyer and make some decisions. He's lost me.
> 
> If you'll read the material at MB - especially the book Surviving An Affair - you'll see that you need to create an image of you in his mind of the GOOD, loving, but strong wife who CAN make you the better choice, BEFORE you go dark (no contact, Plan B). It's suggested that you do this Plan A for at least 3 or 4 weeks so all his latest memories of you are of the woman he fell in love with - no LBs, no demands (except stop the affair), look and smell good, cooking the meals he loves, meeting his top ENs. Can't do this. He's already moved out. Not sure I want him back. I am the better choice, and being without him looks mighty appealing in my eyes. Look at what I've gone through? For what?
> 
> THEN, after you've set those memories in his head, THEN you write him a Plan B letter where you state that you love him, but that what you need in a marriage includes him being faithful to you, and you can't share him. When he's ready to commit to you, let you know; until then, you can't see him any more. Already wrote all that in a letter. I just didn't demand he end his friendship with her. Did you read the letter? Thoughts? Especially now that I know he's having ANOTHER EA?
> 
> Instead, you went from telling him what he's doing wrong, expecting things from him, *to harassing his old friend*, to going dark. What old friend? The OW? He knows nothing about me talking to his best friend, and I haven't harassed anyone.
> 
> Where in there is the loving wife he used to care about? In a letter? That may not be enough to remind him why he should come home. I've been here all along, which is why he's so conflicted. I'm not doing half of what you suspect. I really am a strong, patient person. His 5 days away? Chances are, he was with her.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> If you want to confront him you could say "Husband, I know you are having an inappropriate relationship with X. Either you stop all communication with her and end it OR I will take the appropriate actions including up to and filing for divorce. I will NOT live in an open marriage."
> 
> The ball will be placed in his court.
> 
> If he can't end it with her, then you decide whether you accept being in an open marriage is ok or you move on.
> 
> Believe me, I know you want to lash out at her, she's a homewrecking jerk, but right now, I'd go more with confronting him than her (if you confront him at all).
> 
> He does NOT have you or your kids' best interest right now.


Do you think no contact is a bad idea right now? I'm really confused as to why he got so angry after reading my letter. It doesn't make sense. It must have made him feel REALLY bad. So he cut me out. I want to see what he does when he doesn't have me around. I do need to tell him that I know, and he'll ask how, then what do I say? His friend says I should let it play out and he'll try to get to him. My friend whose husband was a cheater says I need to let him self destruct. I feel like smashing his phone into a million pieces and shoving it up his @ss. I feel like, for now, I need to not confront him. I'll wait for him to hang himself. I texted his mom that I figured everything out and I would like to talk to her in person. She has stopped responding after I told her I'd like to discuss in person and not on the phone. I really don't know if I want him. I am a good wife. And come to think of it, I've loved him loyally, but he's not been able to meet my emotional needs for a long time. So maybe I need to find someone who can.


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## Babyheart

Give him enough rope to hang himself with. You take care of you & the kids. Be polite & civil to him when you see him. Always look great. Do not chase him anymore. You are better than that. 

Hopefully his friend will be able to get thru to him before he does self destruct.


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## Jellybeans

What did your letter to him say? 

If the letter involved you stating what you will and won't accept and you standing up for yourself, not rolling over and being a doormat and he got pissed, then no I'm not surprised. So far he's been allowed to do what he wants when he wants and has you as a safe back up while he carries on an EA while knowing the pain it's causing you, your kids, your marriage.


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## Jellybeans

babyheart said:


> give him enough rope to hang himself with. You take care of you & the kids. Be polite & civil to him when you see him. Always look great. Do not chase him anymore. You are better than that.
> .



this!!!


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Do you think no contact is a bad idea right now? I'm really confused as to why he got so angry after reading my letter. It doesn't make sense. It must have made him feel REALLY bad. So he cut me out. I want to see what he does when he doesn't have me around. I do need to tell him that I know, and he'll ask how, then what do I say? His friend says I should let it play out and he'll try to get to him. My friend whose husband was a cheater says I need to let him self destruct. I feel like smashing his phone into a million pieces and shoving it up his @ss. I feel like, for now, I need to not confront him. I'll wait for him to hang himself. I texted his mom that I figured everything out and I would like to talk to her in person. She has stopped responding after I told her I'd like to discuss in person and not on the phone. I really don't know if I want him. I am a good wife. And come to think of it, I've loved him loyally, but he's not been able to meet my emotional needs for a long time. So maybe I need to find someone who can.


What a dog. How dare he have you walking on eggshells trying to not push him or upset him when all along he was doing what he claimed you made him feel so bad about. He's either a confused mess or a sneaky snake. Can I ask what age group you guys are in that high school seems like such glory days to him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Babyheart said:


> Give him enough rope to hang himself with. You take care of you & the kids. Be polite & civil to him when you see him. Always look great. Do not chase him anymore. You are better than that.
> 
> Hopefully his friend will be able to get thru to him before he does self destruct.


I don't know if I want him? I will not chase him. It's taking all my strength to not tell him he disgusts me. When I first found out he lied to me about talking to her for 2 hours back in November, I texted him, "You disgust me." And this all started from there. 



Jellybeans said:


> What did your letter to him say?
> 
> If the letter involved you stating what you will and won't accept and you standing up for yourself, not rolling over and being a doormat and he got pissed, then no I'm not surprised. So far he's been allowed to do what he wants when he wants and has you as a safe back up while he carries on an EA while knowing the pain it's causing you, your kids, your marriage.


This is the letter. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/283626-post116.html Now after you read it, tell me how bad he felt about what he was doing and good I looked. 



golfergirl said:


> What a dog. How dare he have you walking on eggshells trying to not push him or upset him when all along he was doing what he claimed you made him feel so bad about. He's either a confused mess or a sneaky snake. Can I ask what age group you guys are in that high school seems like such glory days to him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are exactly right. Look how I've been in turmoil, thinking that he isn't doing anything and I'm being suspicious. Look at how much benefit of the doubt I gave him, all the while he was having his cake and eating it too. You've seen me defend him. It makes me sick. No wonder he was defensive. He is a confused mess. And he is 33 years old. We've been married for 10 years, together for 13. I'm really not sure I want him back. I don't know how to get over the fact that this happened twice.


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## Jellybeans

That letter, IMO was way too wordy and way too "kissing his butt" for lack of a better phrase.

You should communicate to him you WILL NOT be in a marriage where there's a third party and STOP LETTING HIM call all the shots. What about you? What you want? What you need? Stop giving this man all your power, Lonely. 

You said in 100 diff ways how you feel you're not meeting his needs, and placated him each step of the way but let me ask you something -- is he meeting your needs? Truthfully? 

Lonely you deserve more. 

And do not reveal to him how you know about the ongoing EA. All he needs to know is that YOU know.


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## turnera

He knows you contacted HER. THAT makes you look nuts, to him AND to her. 

The OLD him knows you're not nuts, but now you are interfering with his heroin source - the 'feel good' he gets when talking to OW. So now, you are NOT attractive to him and the OLD him no longer matters.

You have kids, right? So you CAN do a Plan A when it involves kid exchanges, school events, or any other opportunity for him to see you. And he NEEDS to see you looking and smelling great, moving on with your life, NOT harping on him to come home, NOT telling him what he's doing wrong. He needs to see you say 'You want OW in your life? Fine. But you don't get her AND me. You choose. For now, I've got my own life to live.'


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## WhereAmI

Jellybeans said:


> That letter, IMO was way too wordy and way too "kissing his butt" for lack of a better phrase.
> 
> You should communicate to him you WILL NOT be in a marriage where there's a third party and STOP LETTING HIM call all the shots. What about you? What you want? What you need? Stop giving this man all your power, Lonely.
> 
> You said in 100 diff ways how you feel you're not meeting his needs, and placated him each step of the way but let me ask you something -- is he meeting your needs? Truthfully?
> 
> Lonely you deserve more.
> 
> And do not reveal to him how you know about the ongoing EA. All he needs to know is that YOU know.


:iagree: with all of it. 

Make sure your NC letter is straight to the point and above all don't out his friend. You may need him on your side in the future. Start out with, "I now have confirmation that you are in an emotional affair with ______" and take it from there.


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## LonelyNLost

Now I'm confused. The best friend just sent me this. WTH?

_I talked to *** and from what I can tell she seems to be a problem between the 2 of you and not an actual problem. He doesn't talk to her much and he seems more angry at the situation. Not really sure where to go with him right now after everything that went on with you 2 this weekend. If I come up with anything I'll let you know. As for right now my best suggestion is keep your distance, don't utter the name *****, and don't look for much rationale from him for a while. He is not thinking rationally right now. I'll talk to him again later today._

Okay, now really confused. Do you think H just convinced him otherwise? And it sounds like he is done and told the best friend so. :scratchhead:


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## Jellybeans

No way to tell what he's thinking but you need to stand up for yourself over and over again.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Now I'm confused. The best friend just sent me this. WTH?
> 
> _I talked to *** and from what I can tell she seems to be a problem between the 2 of you and not an actual problem. He doesn't talk to her much and he seems more angry at the situation. Not really sure where to go with him right now after everything that went on with you 2 this weekend. If I come up with anything I'll let you know. As for right now my best suggestion is keep your distance, don't utter the name *****, and don't look for much rationale from him for a while. He is not thinking rationally right now. I'll talk to him again later today._
> 
> Okay, now really confused. Do you think H just convinced him otherwise? And it sounds like he is done and told the best friend so. :scratchhead:


It sounds like friend is back pedaling because he's scared you'll say something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Or...OW really IS just someone he talks to and he's not romantically interested in her - she's just safe to talk to, while you are not.


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## golfergirl

turnera said:


> Or...OW really IS just someone he talks to and he's not romantically interested in her - she's just safe to talk to, while you are not.


Safe or not -romantically involved or not - depressed or not - H has to be responsible for his actions. The OW is causing distress in marriage and safe place or not - that's disrespectful. My H and I are getting along like crap. I'm thinking of leaving but I have enough respect for him and the love we shared to not seek out another man until our relationship is fully over. He deserves that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Or...OW really IS just someone he talks to and he's not romantically interested in her - she's just safe to talk to, while you are not.


No matter which way you slice it, he chose her over me when this first started. He did the wrong thing by continuing his friendship with her despite how uncomfortable he made me feel. This has been a cycle, and somewhere it has to be broken. She needs to go.



golfergirl said:


> Safe or not -romantically involved or not - depressed or not - H has to be responsible for his actions. The OW is causing distress in marriage and safe place or not - that's disrespectful. My H and I are getting along like crap. I'm thinking of leaving but I have enough respect for him and the love we shared to not seek out another man until our relationship is fully over. He deserves that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. I would like the truth. Like 4 months ago would have been nice.


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## turnera

Well, good luck. 

I'll just ask...why, at this point, will he choose you? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to get you to see the reality from HIS side.

You can't MAKE him do what you want. 

All you can do is be the better option.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Well, good luck.
> 
> I'll just ask...why, at this point, will he choose you? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to get you to see the reality from HIS side.
> 
> You can't MAKE him do what you want.
> 
> All you can do is be the better option.


I don't know if I want him to choose me. He should choose me because I'm his loyal, faithful wife of 10 years, who has forgiven him before and cherished him and supported him even in his worst of times. I am the mother of his children and someone well respected by others. I am selfless and understanding. His actions caused that to change. And if he can't see that, then I don't want him. I will not be a choice or an option. Because I will make that decision for him. He has caused me to be this person to him. I am the better option, which is why he's so torn up about all this. I've reacted very reasonably to his angry outbursts. You might not see it that way, but those close to me have told me how amazing I am and how they admire my strength. He can go blow himself if he thinks I'll be an option.


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## golfergirl

turnera said:


> Well, good luck.
> 
> I'll just ask...why, at this point, will he choose you? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to get you to see the reality from HIS side.
> 
> You can't MAKE him do what you want.
> 
> All you can do is be the better option.


At this point isn't the question why would she choose him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Syrum

turnera said:


> Well, good luck.
> 
> I'll just ask...why, at this point, will he choose you? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to get you to see the reality from HIS side.
> 
> You can't MAKE him do what you want.
> 
> All you can do is be the better option.


The point is in his mind the choice shouldn't have even been an option or a question. It should have allways been his wife.

Why would lonely want to feel she all ways has to compete, and she has to try to "keep" him. If he doesn't want to stay and be faithful that is on him.

To me this is crazy.


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## LonelyNLost

Syrum said:


> The point is in his mind the choice shouldn't have even been an option or a question. It should have allways been his wife.
> 
> Why would lonely want to feel she all ways has to compete, and she has to try to "keep" him. If he doesn't want to stay and be faithful that is on him.
> 
> To me this is crazy.


:iagree: Either way, if he's cheating or he's just fed up with me not trusting him, he brought this on himself. I've changed and grown, but he has just checked out. It's his loss.


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## vivea

OMG lonely...how effed up is everything . The situation is unacceptable ...if he wants to go back to high school than he can go F. himself .Gosh I'm so mad for you.
He is putting you through waaay too much.He wants you to trust him and is pissed at you for not trusting him BUT at the same time he doesn't lift his little finger to help with that...how are you supposed to do that. He is obviously a liar,he doesn't tell you the truth because he doesn't want to lose you as an option ( again this horrible word) .YOU CAN NOT BE AN OPTION !

If you want to tell him you know,you can say you got an antonymous email, call or someone send you a message on FB...
say they said it's someone close to HER .

The best mans letter pressed some buttons ,,our best man was the one that enabled my H. to do what he did ..and also caused other troubles in the past .I wish our best man was like yours...caring. Hang in there ,you have good people on your side.
AND you DO want your husband but at that point you want him to tell you the full truth,be remorseful and ready to work hard on the marriage....and of course delete HER from his LIFE.
So she 33 and single and clubbing...no kids ?! No wonder he's drooling over that . What a fool !


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## LonelyNLost

vivea said:


> OMG lonely...how effed up is everything . The situation is unacceptable ...if he wants to go back to high school than he can go F. himself .Gosh I'm so mad for you.
> He is putting you through waaay too much.He wants you to trust him and is pissed at you for not trusting him BUT at the same time he doesn't lift his little finger to help with that...how are you supposed to do that. He is obviously a liar,he doesn't tell you the truth because he doesn't want to lose you as an option ( again this horrible word) .YOU CAN NOT BE AN OPTION !
> 
> If you want to tell him you know,you can say you got an antonymous email, call or someone send you a message on FB...
> say they said it's someone close to HER .
> 
> The best mans letter pressed some buttons ,,our best man was the one that enabled my H. to do what he did ..and also caused other troubles in the past .I wish our best man was like yours...caring. Hang in there ,you have good people on your side.
> AND you DO want your husband but at that point you want him to tell you the full truth,be remorseful and ready to work hard on the marriage....and of course delete HER from his LIFE.
> So she 33 and single and clubbing...no kids ?! No wonder he's drooling over that . What a fool !


Thanks, Viv. I actually can't get a feel on the situation. He wrote me back again after I responded and said he wasn't sure he just seemed like my H was genuine. But I told him he is probably like me and believes him one minute and not the next. He said I should be concerned about this skank.

She is going through her second divorce, and has an 11 year old son, which H is "friends" with on facebook. I'm not giving him the option of knowing that I know. I'm keeping up my no contact. He's getting NOTHING from me. Let him sit and wonder. Or file for divorce. I don't care. He knows he's wrong, whether it be an EA or me not trusting him. He brought it on himself. 

I'm not sure I want him back if it's another EA. I don't need him. He would have to really show me some changes and do IC and MC for me to take him back. I have to make boundaries. I love our best man, he is genuinely a good guy. I'm very thankful that he responded to me reaching out. And that he's trying to talk some sense into my H. It's amazing to me that his own friends can see what he's doing wrong and he just shuts them all out. I WILL be okay. I am NOT an option and refuse to be.


----------



## golfergirl

Do you feel some clarity with at least knowing what you're dealing with? Will his mom tell him you know? Funny - you could have done everything he asked of you and it still wouldn't have made a difference. It's him - not you, always has been.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Now, see, here is the REALITY you are dealing with.

He IS is a FOG.

SHE offers him 'feel good' right now while you offer him truth.

He is in a FOG.

It's called an affair.

You have to ask yourself if you're willing to fight to get the REAL husband back.

If so, you have to ignore this crap, KNOW the truth, and follow the PLAN. Devised by hundreds, thousands, of people who've traveled this fog-laden road before you.

Are you? Are you willing?


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Do you feel some clarity with at least knowing what you're dealing with? Will his mom tell him you know? Funny - you could have done everything he asked of you and it still wouldn't have made a difference. It's him - not you, always has been.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I thought I felt better that I thought I knew. But now I don't know. There is still the chance that he's depressed and totally pushed away by my accusations, but the question still remains why he didn't do something about this long ago. I know this is his to deal with. Mistakes are made on both parts, but I've been trying to fix things for awhile now. His turn.



turnera said:


> Now, see, here is the REALITY you are dealing with.
> 
> He IS is a FOG.
> 
> SHE offers him 'feel good' right now while you offer him truth.
> 
> He is in a FOG.
> 
> It's called an affair.
> 
> You have to ask yourself if you're willing to fight to get the REAL husband back.
> 
> If so, you have to ignore this crap, KNOW the truth, and follow the PLAN. Devised by hundreds, thousands, of people who've traveled this fog-laden road before you.
> 
> Are you? Are you willing?


But I've already dealt with the FOG before. Why should I have to do it again? I'd love my real husband back, but then again, maybe I wouldn't. Isn't he just going to do this again? When life's stresses get him down he feeds on the attention of any lonely female? He's weak. He also gets plenty attention from the opposite sex. And no matter how appealing I am at home, it doesn't matter. The last EA, I wasn't in his face or untrusting at all. I didn't accuse or suspect, I didn't LB, I was the laid back wife. A little too laid back I guess. And this time, IF it is an EA, I put my foot down in the beginning and he disregarded. He was selfish and stubborn, and if that's what's going on, he is an emotional manipulator because I've said so many things that would have hit home and made him feel like crap because of what HE is DOING. 

I'm still really perplexed about the letter. Did he even read it? He didn't tell or show his mom, and in the past he has. What a toolbag. I have to just wait this one out and live my life. I get to decide what I want to put up with. Let him feel what life would be like without us in it.


----------



## turnera

Why? Because you two haven't learned how to deal with each other.

You wrote a letter.

You EXPECTED him to change.

Now what?


----------



## LonelyNLost

I've tried everything. I've changed. I've learned and I've grown. I've proposed a million and one things to change the dynamics. For whatever reason, he doesn't have it in him to try anything. So, I can't expect him to change. I know that. I'm just saying that it's his turn to change if he wants me as his wife. Because right now, I don't want to be his wife. 

My letter was my last ditch effort. It was honest and heartfelt and not at all threatening. Did you read it? It's post 116 in this thread. I hardly think it called for being childish and deleting me and all of my family and friends off facebook and going no contact. 

I'm sitting this one out. I can't do anything else. I'm putting it in God's hands. Whether he is having an EA or not, my actions would be the same, I'm pulling back. There's nothing to fight for anymore. I don't believe it's "nothing" with her, but it might not be an affair. But it's not in line with how I should be treated. He's disregarded my feelings over and over. And when this first started, he had no reason to do that. He was in the wrong and had lied, and we were fine. We weren't as connected as we both would have preferred, but we were getting along just fine. He could have saved a lot of grief through this process by being honest, and he hasn't. No wonder he's so beat down. He's guilty and ashamed. The depression doesn't help. But there's nothing else I can do here but move on.


----------



## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> I've tried everything. I've changed. I've learned and I've grown. I've proposed a million and one things to change the dynamics. For whatever reason, he doesn't have it in him to try anything. So, I can't expect him to change. I know that. I'm just saying that it's his turn to change if he wants me as his wife. Because right now, I don't want to be his wife.
> 
> My letter was my last ditch effort. It was honest and heartfelt and not at all threatening. Did you read it? It's post 116 in this thread. I hardly think it called for being childish and deleting me and all of my family and friends off facebook and going no contact.
> 
> I'm sitting this one out. I can't do anything else. I'm putting it in God's hands. Whether he is having an EA or not, my actions would be the same, I'm pulling back. There's nothing to fight for anymore. I don't believe it's "nothing" with her, but it might not be an affair. But it's not in line with how I should be treated. He's disregarded my feelings over and over. And when this first started, he had no reason to do that. He was in the wrong and had lied, and we were fine. We weren't as connected as we both would have preferred, but we were getting along just fine. He could have saved a lot of grief through this process by being honest, and he hasn't. No wonder he's so beat down. He's guilty and ashamed. The depression doesn't help. But there's nothing else I can do here but move on.


You're obviously tired of bending to meet his emotional needs when he's the one screwing you over. You seem very clear-headed, especially compared to when this mess started. I think you're doing the right thing. Enough is enough.


----------



## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> You're obviously tired of bending to meet his emotional needs when he's the one screwing you over. You seem very clear-headed, especially compared to when this mess started. I think you're doing the right thing. Enough is enough.


Thank you. I agree. I'm in a much better place and have come to the conclusion that if this ends, I did all I could to save it. I've accepted that he might not be the man for me. I would have a hard time getting past the hurt and resentment I feel right now. I just want the truth. Is that too much to ask for?


----------



## Oak

The truth seems like such an easy proposition, but I know many of us may never understand why our spouses made the choices they did. Even if we heard the truth, accepting it is a whole different story. I think you are in good mental shape right now, and I am proud that you are standing up for yourself.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Oak said:


> The truth seems like such an easy proposition, but I know many of us may never understand why our spouses made the choices they did. Even if we heard the truth, accepting it is a whole different story. I think you are in good mental shape right now, and I am proud that you are standing up for yourself.


Thanks. Me too.  

I don't know if I will ever get the whole truth about his internal struggle. And I wouldn't want anyone to force him to make a decision, because I don't want to be in this place ever again. With H or anyone else. How did I miss the signs when we were dating and engaged? How was everything so perfect? I don't think he's mentally healthy in the least, with the EA, the depression, his behavior, the lies. Who does that and then professes their love for the person that's their victim? Only those with an illness. And if he doesn't want help, he can't get it. But I can't continue to get kicked.


----------



## Neil

And this is why people are saying concentrate on you and the kids, better yourself, and be happier within yourself for you and your kids.

That, way, no matter which way it finally does go (EA or not involved here) you will be in a better position for you.

If this eventually work out, you have worked on being heppier yourself and great things get better with him.

If it doesn't, you have put yourself in a better/happier position to move on without him

Although I feel you are "venting" and lashing out at this point (quite rightly), but in a few days you may not feel the anger as much and start going down hill.

Don't forget the support here, and keep working on and being happier in yourself for YOU and your KIDS.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Neil said:


> And this is why people are saying concentrate on you and the kids, better yourself, and be happier within yourself for you and your kids.
> 
> That, way, no matter which way it finally does go (EA or not involved here) you will be in a better position for you.
> 
> If this eventually work out, you have worked on being heppier yourself and great things get better with him.
> 
> If it doesn't, you have put yourself in a better/happier position to move on without him
> 
> Although I feel you are "venting" and lashing out at this point (quite rightly), but in a few days you may not feel the anger as much and start going down hill.
> 
> Don't forget the support here, and keep working on and being happier in yourself for YOU and your KIDS.


Thanks, Neil. I am afraid I'm just pissed at this point, but I can see myself being okay without him. Did you read my letter I ended up leaving on the seat of his truck on Saturday. It's post 116 in this thread. I can't believe that he reacted by deleting me and my family and friends off facebook. Even mutual friends. I'm glad his best friend is talking to me, but by the looks of the messages I've posted, he is rather confused about it all just as I am. He told me I should be concerned about the ex, and that my actions are all justifiable. He says H is just angry and agitated by the situation and not acting or thinking rationally. I am just staying away. Haven't spoken a word to him since our confrontation on Friday. I don't know what his deal is, but he's got to sort himself out. And I won't be second best to any man. EVER.


----------



## Runs like Dog

*"I love you and I always will..."*

_And people in hell want ice water._:FIREdevil:


----------



## LonelyNLost

*Re: "I love you and I always will..."*



Runs like Dog said:


> _And people in hell want ice water._:FIREdevil:


Is that in response to me saying I want him to change?! Because that's about how I feel.


----------



## Runs like Dog

See I really do believe in talk but eventually talk is cheap. Show me. Do it. Make me want you. Or STFU.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Did you read my letter I ended up leaving on the seat of his truck on Saturday. It's post 116 in this thread. I can't believe that he reacted by deleting me and my family and friends off facebook. Even mutual friends.


Wow. Sounds like a really mature guy.

Lonely, you don't need him. You want him, but you don't NEED him.


----------



## LonelyNLost

He roped me into another text message war. Says my actions over the past few days pushed him over.  I freaking hate him. How can I forgive him for an emotional affair, and he can't forgive me for contacting the OW's ex? 

AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> He roped me into another text message war. Says my actions over the past few days pushed him over.  I freaking hate him. How can I forgive him for an emotional affair, and he can't forgive me for contacting the OW's ex?
> 
> AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!


What did u say to her ex?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> What did u say to her ex?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just asked him if he ever had any suspicions that his wife was involved with anyone else since this started mid-October, and she left him in December. He said he didn't know of anyone, and then I said ok. Just said that I was suspicious and wanted to see if he was. I also said I could be wrong. Guess he told her and she told my H. Doesn't make sense how mad he is, and he's all about how "I have to answer questions to her" and "you make me look like a fool." 

This texting just went on for many hours. I stayed cool but he is obviously worked up. Saying this is the straw that broke the camel's back, and he's already been to the edge and there's no returning from this. What a loser.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I just asked him if he ever had any suspicions that his wife was involved with anyone else since this started mid-October, and she left him in December. He said he didn't know of anyone, and then I said ok. Just said that I was suspicious and wanted to see if he was. I also said I could be wrong. Guess he told her and she told my H. Doesn't make sense how mad he is, and he's all about how "I have to answer questions to her" and "you make me look like a fool."
> 
> This texting just went on for many hours. I stayed cool but he is obviously worked up. Saying this is the straw that broke the camel's back, and he's already been to the edge and there's no returning from this. What a loser.


Whatever! What a jerk. His fantasy world crashing - the noose is tightening!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

_this is what the one text said, "and if you didn't get the answers you wanted i will just say whatever u believe is true so you stop dragging other people into this mess of a marriage"

"before this goes any further, just go with your assumptions and "red flags" and leave other people out of it"

"im admitting to whatever the hell you want to believe cuz i'm tired of this sh!t"

" so believe what you want at this point, whatever you WANT to believe is truth."_

What is he saying?


----------



## Jellybeans

Righto. He has to lash out at you cause he can't take the heat.

SUPER lame.


----------



## LonelyNLost

He kept going on and on about how I made him look like a fool. And how he had to answer to her, and how I brought her into the middle of this when I didn't want her to know anything and now she does. I don't get why he is SOOOO mad. He says I crossed so many lines and it's so wrong to bring other people into this. 

He then minimized my letter saying he didn't take it as real because I did it while doing all this other crazy digging for something that isn't there. Then when I stopped responding for a little while he tries to call and i don't answer and he says, "ur not going to respond to my texts or answer the phone. no answer about the kids. that's fine. i will handle things from here." Is he trying to be a bully?!


----------



## Jellybeans

I hate to say it but most people get super defensive when they know they've done wrong...

Just sayin'...


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I hate to say it but most people get super defensive when they know they've done wrong...
> 
> Just sayin'...


He knows he's done wrong, but he's making it about me. I told him he chose her over me long ago, because I was uncomfortable and he continued the lies and friendship. But then it's weird, because he flips to "everyone can blame me" mode. 

I think the proof is in the pudding. He won't even talk to his close friends because he knows they'd tell him he's wrong for continuing his friendship with her. Every one of them would. And he won't do MC. 

He seems so done with it all. I'm going to let him be for now. Think he's really done? I can't tell. He's pretty pissed for whatever reason. Not even sure he'd sit down for a rational conversation about finances and visitation with the kids. I'm sickened by him. I pointed out how f'd up it was that I forgave him for an EA 4 years ago, but he can't even forgive me for seeking answers when he acts shady and moves out of the house. He is not my husband. Aliens must have abducted my husband.


----------



## Babyheart

LonelyNLost said:


> He knows he's done wrong, but he's making it about me. I told him he chose her over me long ago, because I was uncomfortable and he continued the lies and friendship. But then it's weird, because he flips to "everyone can blame me" mode.
> 
> I think the proof is in the pudding. He won't even talk to his close friends because he knows they'd tell him he's wrong for continuing his friendship with her. Every one of them would. And he won't do MC.


I could have written that. I talked to Hs best friend yesterday, told him about OW. He had no clue, and was totally gobsmacked. He said he wont even try to talk to my H as he is so disgusted with how this went. H talked to him once when they ran into each other at the DMV. 
Like you say - if they had done nothing wrong they would have no worries about facing up to their family & friends. 

My H does the same - I'll take all the blame, woe is me. Jerk.

I am getting on with my life. If he comes to his senses very soon, maybe we can save things. Otherwise, going to be way too late. Hope he is happy when his children want nothing to do with him.


----------



## vivea

Gosh ...so he worries about her feelings and about what SHE will think of him...he's so lost. He doesn't worry about what anyone else thinks of what he is doing to his family...what his kids will think of him one day...How much he hurts you.
I think that he is talking to her a lot and may be he is not cheating with her...in his eyes he doesn't do anything wrong..he probably gets his fix by talking to her...obviously he misses his high-school days and SHE is the link...so at the moment he needs her for that.You calling makes him feel like a loser in front of her,like his wife is acting like his mother and going crazy over "nothing "really.
He just doesn't understand that a relationship like that is inappropriate at all levels...he doesn't get that him even talking to her is cheating in a way.He just doesn't get it.


----------



## Neil

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, Neil. I am afraid I'm just pissed at this point, but I can see myself being okay without him. Did you read my letter I ended up leaving on the seat of his truck on Saturday. It's post 116 in this thread. I can't believe that he reacted by deleting me and my family and friends off facebook. Even mutual friends. I'm glad his best friend is talking to me, but by the looks of the messages I've posted, he is rather confused about it all just as I am. He told me I should be concerned about the ex, and that my actions are all justifiable. He says H is just angry and agitated by the situation and not acting or thinking rationally. I am just staying away. Haven't spoken a word to him since our confrontation on Friday. I don't know what his deal is, but he's got to sort himself out. And I won't be second best to any man. EVER.



Hi,

Yes I read what you sent, but I wouldn't have suggested you sent it, and definately not put it in his truck... But what is done is done.

However, I have started coming across a few more details what I haven't read/seen you write before, and whilst I was on the "other side of the fence" regarding an EA, the additional details seem to slot in.

Whilst I know you mentioned Facebook friends with the OW, its the first I have read that he is facebook friends with her 11 year old son too, and its the first I have seen about "Alone trips to vagas"... (If I missed these, I apologise)

So it seems to give a different perspective.

He may not be in a Sexting etc EA, but, their is definately a wiff of an EA of some sort.

Take a real back seat now, and go looking after you and the kids. Let him worry about you (and he will... eventually).

But this is going beyond my level of "Expertise" if you like in actually dealing with a EA or PA's etc.

But I know from reading around here that their are plenty of actions you can take to sort this/you out.

I think the first thing you have to do though, is take stock, and whether or not it takes you a week or two to figure out, you need to come to a decision on whether or not you want to fight for your marriage or not. Once you have that (Without making the decision whilst in the heat of the moment (ie like now)) it will inform what actions you need to take afterwards.

You need to get to a point of making a decision on this with a clear head, without the distractions of frustration/sadness/anger etc before proceding. (I think that is the gist of what people are advised on here)

Sorry to hear things have gone south even further


----------



## golfergirl

Neil said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes I read what you sent, but I wouldn't have suggested you sent it, and definately not put it in his truck... But what is done is done.
> 
> However, I have started coming across a few more details what I haven't read/seen you write before, and whilst I was on the "other side of the fence" regarding an EA, the additional details seem to slot in.
> 
> Whilst I know you mentioned Facebook friends with the OW, its the first I have read that he is facebook friends with her 11 year old son too, and its the first I have seen about "Alone trips to vagas"... (If I missed these, I apologise)
> 
> So it seems to give a different perspective.
> 
> He may not be in a Sexting etc EA, but, their is definately a wiff of an EA of some sort.
> 
> Take a real back seat now, and go looking after you and the kids. Let him worry about you (and he will... eventually).
> 
> But this is going beyond my level of "Expertise" if you like in actually dealing with a EA or PA's etc.
> 
> But I know from reading around here that their are plenty of actions you can take to sort this/you out.
> 
> I think the first thing you have to do though, is take stock, and whether or not it takes you a week or two to figure out, you need to come to a decision on whether or not you want to fight for your marriage or not. Once you have that (Without making the decision whilst in the heat of the moment (ie like now)) it will inform what actions you need to take afterwards.
> 
> You need to get to a point of making a decision on this with a clear head, without the distractions of frustration/sadness/anger etc before proceding. (I think that is the gist of what people are advised on here)
> 
> Sorry to hear things have gone south even further


I'm haunted by this for some reason. I was thinking how I would react if my H had issue with male friend or first love from past... Firstly, I don't have anyone on my fb that I was ever romantically involved with. My own personal boundary. Think about your H's life. He's gone on alone vacations, weekends alone etc. So it's not like he's micromanaged or suffering with a crazy controlling wife. So wife is showing concern and H is embarrassed when she shows concern? Hello, how about some reassurance instead of b!tching you out and calling you down. I said it before and I'll say it again - he messed up - you told him what you need to feel better and he not only refuses to do it, he makes you feel sorry for him and guilty for asking for one of your needs to be met. He's a real piece of work!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Syrum

LonelyNLost said:


> I just asked him if he ever had any suspicions that his wife was involved with anyone else since this started mid-October, and she left him in December. He said he didn't know of anyone, and then I said ok. Just said that I was suspicious and wanted to see if he was. I also said I could be wrong. Guess he told her and she told my H. Doesn't make sense how mad he is, and he's all about how "I have to answer questions to her" and "you make me look like a fool."
> 
> This texting just went on for many hours. I stayed cool but he is obviously worked up. Saying this is the straw that broke the camel's back, and he's already been to the edge and there's no returning from this. What a loser.


The only person who made him look like a fool is him.

He is a liar and manipulator and hates that he is not manipulating you the way he wants.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Thanks, everyone. I'm so broken over all of this. It is so clear to me, but why does he fog it all up? I can see if he's being accused of a million things and he's innocent, and that pushing him away. But he hasn't made any effort to prove anything.

The alone Vegas trip (which is where SHE lives) is the one he took in January to see this best friend. He hadn't been in 6 years. But 5 days after our ten year anniversary, he scrounges up money for a ticket. Did I get anything besides a card for our anniversary? No. Selfish @ss. Then a few weeks later I find him talking to her in his truck. We have it out, I tell him he disgusts me with his lies and he needs to delete her. He says no, I can't tell him who his friends are. I finally say whatever, I believe you, but no talking on the phone or texting. He says okay. 

The alone trip to "find himself" at the end of February was another story. He was feeling all lost, and couldn't handle all this turmoil, and said he needed to find himself. I said, "if this is going to help you then let's do it." He then doesn't contact me, takes cash, no paper trail whatsoever. We get into a huge argument about it the second night, he stays away 5 days. Comes back saying he doesn't think our marriage can be saved. Then I get angry and tell him maybe he needs to go stay with his parents for a couple weeks and see what he has at stake. He then flips it around on me and manipulates me into agreeing to him moving out by saying "we can relieve some of this tension and go on dates on Saturdays and try to reconnect. And we'll talk every night." Crappola. It was all crap. I don't know how much of a cooling off period he wanted, I gave him 3 weeks. 

I'm not controlling in the least. It's all about this situation. I was concerned from the beginning, and he didn't take my concern into consideration like a husband should. And add to that his weird behavior. I agree with Neil in that maybe this isn't like the last EA where it was all fun and games and sexting and dirty talk, but he's probably confiding in her. And he'll blame it on me because I "dragged her into it." If you are so friggin embarrassed, then this would be a great time to cut her out of your life!


----------



## DelinquentGurl

I really, really think you need to take a step back and stop talking to him for a while.
I know it's hard, but you really need to for your sanity.
You two keep going round and round and nothing is getting resolved.
If you keep putting up with his behavior he's going to keep doing it.
You need to step back, regroup, and focus on YOU and your kids.

I haven't read every single page of this thread, so I don't know if you are in IC or not, but if you aren't I would strongly suggest it.

All this fighting isn't getting you anywhere. It really isn't.

What do you keep fighting for? Is he really worth all this?
Will you ever truly be able to get past all of this? Honestly?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Neil

LonelyNLost said:


> The alone Vegas trip (which is where SHE lives) is the one he took in January to see this best friend. He hadn't been in 6 years.



Its looking worse the more you write.

A whole lot of this completely makes sense.

I dont' want to add to your worries, but this has a real huge smoking gun.

And I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they met up and their was more to this


----------



## Neil

I took the liberty of looking at your post history. More specifically your first ever post (obvioulsy thats where it starts and people start to look for advice)...

Its starting to look pretty conclusive now isn't it?



LonelyNLost said:


> This is my first time posting, but I don't know where to turn. I'm a wreck and this is all surreal. Some background...DH and I have been married 10 years (together 13), he's 33 and I'm 32. We have 2 children, an 8 year old and a 2 year old.
> 
> Several years back, when our son was 4, I began my first year of teaching. DH and I had worked reverse schedules to care for our son up until that point, and he started pre-K at that time. To me, everything was going great in life. We were able to see DH since he wasn't working as late, and I was doing a job I loved (albeit busy and demanding). DH got into riding his motorcycle and said he was riding with a group of guys he worked with (at a dealership). Long story short, he started an emotional affair with a girl that worked with him and was part of this "guy group". She rode a motorcycle and basically used that as a way to worm her way into our marriage. He's weak and oblivious to other peoples' intentions. I discovered the inappropriate conversations on MySpace the day after he told me things had changed and he wasn't sure if they could ever be the same. I closed his MySpace and confronted him. It wasn't an "I love you" type of EA, but mostly flirtatious and sexual. And they were spending time together and talking on the phone. And he wouldn't cut off contact with her when I demanded it. Basically, his friends, family, everyone made him see that he was an idiot. Boils down to his need for attention as a man wasn't being met because he was jealous of me loving my job and not being his number one priority (up to that point I only worked part time at low wage jobs). He was also turning 30 and having a sort of mid life crisis. We stayed together, went to a couple counseling sessions, which were BS. No emphasis was placed on communication, she made it all about him being okay with who he was and me getting over the EA.
> 
> Fast forward a few years. We had our daughter a little more than a year after this happened (yes, I know, babies don't fix things  ). Things were really good. We have always had a pretty easy relationship, never fight, laugh a lot, very low maintenance. But I'd warned him before that all relationships require work. So, not a lot of time was spent together. He's a night owl, I work early and need my sleep. He has friends in Vegas where he grew up and keeps in touch with them late at night after I'm in bed due to the 3 hour time difference. Whatever, I'm cool with that. I wish we had some sort of marriage rituals, and time dedicated to each other each night, but we don't.
> 
> So, our cycle usually works where we coexist peacefully, have some good times, then lots of other times where it's like we're just roommates. Both of us have our computers up and the TV on, talking on our phones, etc. after the kids are in bed. He used to sit with me and help grade papers, and it was actually fun but now he just sits on the couch and talks to people on Facebook. Then, something triggers me to not trust him (usually him covering up something innocent with a white lie so he doesn't hurt me) and all hell breaks loose. The tears flow, and we both admit that we've grown apart. He always says he's not sure things can be how they were. The latest was Thanksgiving weekend when our daughter was crying in her room at 3am. I got up and he was nowhere to be found. I called him and he said he was in his truck talking to his best friend in Vegas. I thought that was suspicious, and I was right. In the morning I looked at his phone and found that he was talking to his first serious girlfriend out in Vegas that he'd recently been chatting with on Facebook, and their conversation lasted over 2 hours, and it wasn't the first. So I bring it up and I'm wrong for jumping to conclusions, obviously. And he says he'll always have a cloud of suspicion because of his mistake, which he regrets.
> 
> Apparently, about a year ago, I hurt him pretty bad when I told him I loved him, but I didn't feel like we were in love anymore. I will be the first to admit that I did push him away out of the feeling that I wanted him to want me. I wanted him to show me affection and prove he loved me. But he saw it as me distancing myself because I was disgusted with him. Now, he's changed. He says he can talk to whoever he wants because they are just friends, nothing is wrong with it, and he would never ask me to not talk to people. But this ex girlfriend is obviously fishing, she's posting all over his pictures and wall and everything. Chatting every night online, talking on the phone, he's friends with her 10 year old son, it's just weird. I went and looked at her husband's page, since DH's defense was that "she's married and lives 2000 miles away" and his relationship status is "it's complicated". Yeah, that's reassuring. Add in that he's visiting out there the second week of January, and you've got a concerned me.
> 
> We're at the point now, where he feels like things will never be the same. He hates that he hurts me, and he feels like a failure because I cry and hurt. He places all the blame on himself, I've done nothing wrong, and it's all his fault. Nothing I say can change this. He talks to his dad and his dad tells him he's got to do what's best for him. So, I keep saying that we can really try and I know we can get things back, and he says we've tried before. But I try to make him see that we said we'd try but there was never an action plan. He refuses to go to a counselor with me. Basically, I feel like (based on his texts and what he's said to me) that he thinks that hurting me one last time by leaving would be better than trying to save our relationship and failing. This hurts so much. He says he doesn't want to do this in front of the kids and ruin their Christmas, and let's not figure anything out until after Christmas, etc. He wants me to "relax" and not discuss things in front of the kids and because he can't handle it every day, so we pretend to be okay. He'll kiss me on the head and give me hugs and keeps telling me he loves me. But he won't say that he'll try. He thinks things are changed forever because of what happened a few years ago. I agree, it changed my view of him, but the problem boils down to communication and trust. And we've got to rebuild those. We are really good together and compatible. It's just that life got in the way. And it kills me that he can't see that people go through this all of the time, and some give up and some succeed. And that the most powerful message we can send our kids is to try and succeed. Because down at the root of it all we are still the same people, and our relationship is worth saving. But how can I make him see this?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Neil said:


> Its looking worse the more you write.
> 
> A whole lot of this completely makes sense.
> 
> I dont' want to add to your worries, but this has a real huge smoking gun.
> 
> And I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they met up and their was more to this





Neil said:


> I took the liberty of looking at your post history. More specifically your first ever post (obvioulsy thats where it starts and people start to look for advice)...
> 
> Its starting to look pretty conclusive now isn't it?


 I know. And what his friend wrote me seemed spot on. I just wish he knew what he got from my H that made him think that. Why doesn't my H see how bad this looks? 

I posted that first post, and now it hurts to look back at it. A week after that I had had enough. I called his mom to watch the kids and made him go talk to me a week before Christmas. I threw our vows in his face and told him I meant mine. He didn't turn around immediately, but later that night he came to me and said he'd make it work, that we could do this, etc. Things really did turn around. He says he "jumped in with no parachute". 

Then 3 weeks later he went to Vegas. We got into one argument while he was there, and then when he came home, things were different. He was irritated with me. He texted me and said, "can we get back on track" and I was like yes, let's go out. But we really never did. It was one thing after the next. Finding the ex's facebook post saying that the place she'd most like to visit was our town was my breaking point. I lost it. He tried to leave that weekend, but I kept him from doing so. We actually had a good weekend, went on a date, had fun with neighbors. But it's just deteriorating by the minute. Then I let him go "find himself" and he comes back worse. He says it hurt for everything to explode like that and he can't try and then be back at this point again. I am at my wit's end.


----------



## Runs like Dog

You youngsters and your gadgets....text message war......snort!


----------



## LonelyNLost

Runs like Dog said:


> You youngsters and your gadgets....text message war......snort!


Haha, it's not my preference. But he's spineless. He started it with "You and I need to talk." Like he's my father or something. Then he just let loose. Back and forth for like 5 hours. Ridiculous. But it's the only way I can calm myself and think about what I say first. Same for him, I believe. He can also lie easier behind text messages.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Wow, I'm really struggling today.  I went to bed okay last night, I guess because I was angry enough. But I just keep wondering why my husband, who loved me so much and who I cherish, is treating me this way? I wish I knew the truth, because I still don't. And I wouldn't know how to get it. It all seems blatantly obvious that he's got something going on with the ex gf, even if it is a lower level EA. But then I think what if it isn't anything, and my suspicions and digging have driven him away? Even in that case, you'd think he would have tried to calm my fears instead of stirring them up with more lies and wacky behavior. 

I pointed out to him in text last night that it's messed up that I can forgive the EA 4 years ago, but he'd never be able to forgive me for contacting a "friend's" ex or calling the ex and letting the phone ring twice. Nice. He just said that he made choices and I made choices and what's done is done. Said it was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was all so angry and rude. Bottom line is that he put his own selfish needs and her feelings above mine, and I'm his wife. I deserve better. I'm just so crushed at it all. LIke I think it's really over. He is a different man to me. And I don't even know why.


----------



## Oak

LonelyNLost said:


> He is a different man to me. And I don't even know why.


Hang in there Lonely.

He is probably the same man, you just have a new perception of him. You have now seen how he responded to these situations and it is completely at odds with what you expected because YOU are a reasonable individual.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Oak said:


> Hang in there Lonely.
> 
> He is probably the same man, you just have a new perception of him. You have now seen how he responded to these situations and it is completely at odds with what you expected because YOU are a reasonable individual.


I like to think so, but he makes me feel like a nutso, and then I beat myself up over it. Why is he the one who has completely disregarded my feelings and is possibly having another EA, and I am here willing to change? It's all messed up. I never wanted my marriage to end. But I don't think I can deal with this anymore. He's being heartless. It hurts so bad.


----------



## anx

You might just need to say you need to chose between losing me and MC and start moving on. I think you are already starting to seriously consider moving on. If thats where your at, start a non-contact unless he is willing to MC and commit. 

He might not have wanted to go to MC due to both depression and knowing all the EA stuff would come out. A few stories recently people have resisted MC due to an EA/PA that they didn't want revealed.

I don't think that its really possible for you two to work out without MC, and you tried the less drastic route. It might be time to say that you are still willing to start MC, but that may not be the case in the near future. You might need to do a "man up" and say these are my boundries and I'm tired of being treated like sh*t. I think you did that diplomatically in the letter, but you might need to hardline it and make it a simple choice for him.

I think you tried to do everything less drastic than that and it might be time for him to really chose. His current choice is to be depressed and treat you like crap. Force a new decision and wait a month or two and see if he changes his mind. Its not OK for him to remain depressed with a EA / partial EA. 

I would never suggest this unless you had put a TON of work into a less drastic route.


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> You might just need to say you need to chose between losing me and MC and start moving on. I think you are already starting to seriously consider moving on. If thats where your at, start a non-contact unless he is willing to MC and commit.
> 
> He might not have wanted to go to MC due to both depression and knowing all the EA stuff would come out. A few stories recently people have resisted MC due to an EA/PA that they didn't want revealed.
> 
> I don't think that its really possible for you two to work out without MC, and you tried the less drastic route. It might be time to say that you are still willing to start MC, but that may not be the case in the near future. You might need to do a "man up" and say these are my boundries and I'm tired of being treated like sh*t. I think you did that diplomatically in the letter, but you might need to hardline it and make it a simple choice for him.
> 
> I think you tried to do everything less drastic than that and it might be time for him to really chose.


Thanks. I hate being in this place. I tried to tell him via text last night that he had treated me unfairly and not put my needs first. However, I don't think he'd respond very nicely to an ultimatum. He is done. He would be willing to move on no problem, I think. He doesn't want the marriage, because it's easier to leave it. He's not willing to do anything, lift a finger, or anything to make things better. Including MC. 

I even asked him at the end of the conversation, I said "when you cool off we need to discuss some things" to which he replied "it will be a long while before I start to cool off" and I just replied "fine". That was the end of the convo. I am pretty much in no contact. The think about the letter, is that he didn't even process it or read it carefully because he was so pissed about me "digging" for something. No more letters from me. No more text conversations. No more talks. I'm waiting this out, and if divorce papers come, I will contest. Just so he knows I'm committed to the marriage. He thinks its past the point of no return. Why? All I've done is try. Yes, I've pushed him away by being suspicious and snooping, but he's done nothing to help me. He's choosing his actions and being selfish. Internal struggle or not.


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## anx

The only suggest I have is to lay this out clearly for him in a brief e-mail so that there is not a misunderstanding. Your letter was pretty epic.

4-7 sentences of what you are choosing to do and what his choices are. Where you stand and why. That you are still currently interested in MC, but that won't last.

If its already clear to him, then just wait it out, but sometimes a clear and concise statement means more than a 2 page letter.

I think with depression and an EA that non contact with a clear statement is the best. It may take months for him to realize he is depressed and figure out his own sh*t, but I think contact from you is only pushing that back. He may never figure out **** own sh*t.

I've read a few stories on here where people don't realize that they have been horrible towards their ex and want them back until its years too late and their ex has found someone new and better. I think he'll realize one day what you did to try to save the marriage and that he lost something he should have saved.

Best of luck.


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> The only suggest I have is to lay this out clearly for him in a brief e-mail so that there is not a misunderstanding. Your letter was pretty epic.
> 
> 4-7 sentences of what you are choosing to do and what his choices are. Where you stand and why. That you are still currently interested in MC, but that won't last.
> 
> If its already clear to him, then just wait it out, but sometimes a clear and concise statement means more than a 2 page letter.
> 
> I think with depression and an EA that non contact with a clear statement is the best. It may take months for him to realize he is depressed and figure out his own sh*t, but I think contact from you is only pushing that back. He may never figure out **** own sh*t.
> 
> I've read a few stories on here where people don't realize that they have been horrible towards their ex and want them back until its years too late and their ex has found someone new and better. I think he'll realize one day what you did to try to save the marriage and that he lost something he should have saved.
> 
> Best of luck.


Thanks, anx. I am rather wordy. I think I might have to wait out any type of communication. I don't think he fully realizes he is being horrible to me. I think he's rationalized everything. He knows he's hurting me, but I think he tells himself that it's because I see him that way and he can never change that. I do hope his friend would make him see that he's hurting me by his actions, but the friend is afraid of being cut out. Our other mutual friend, who is a neighbor, can't get H to open up at all. He even told him he talked to me, and he is worried about him, and my H just replied "I know. I'm the bad guy. I take the blame." 

He just looks guilty as sin. He acts guilty. Everything points to him not being honest. It's a shame. I really do think I'm dealing with an EA. And I can't wrap my mind around taking him back and getting over that. I even am starting to question if I could get past all his actions at the moment. And words.

Which points do you think it is important to make? I don't want anything to sound like an ultimatum. Do I acknowledge that he thinks this is done and at the point of no return? I mean, he acted childish and deleted me, my family, and our mutual friends off facebook. He's not thinking or acting rationally, according to his best friend (who he has no idea I'm talking to. Hopefully H doesn't go to the house today because I left his number on the table!). Do I lay out a visitation schedule for the kids? Do I tell him a time to call each night? I just don't know what to do. I am afraid that if he thinks I'm done with it all that he will be relieved and file. But everyone is telling me to act done and move on with my life and he will realize what he's losing. But I don't think that happens if you're depressed. This is all so hard! I'm so damn lonely and my heart is broken. 

I want to set boundaries, because I've let him walk all over me. I really don't want him at the house, and I don't want to talk to him. I only want to discuss things like the kids and finances unless he's decided that he is committed to our marriage. Right now, he thinks I'm off my rocker. He has justified everything he's said and done. I even asked him once if he had regrets in all this, and he just said, "I regret lying to you about calling her, but I still would've called her."


----------



## anx

> But everyone is telling me to act done and move on with my life and he will realize what he's losing. But I don't think that happens if you're depressed.


 I think of depression (I've been through it) is more like a fog of sadness. 

Thats why I suggested being clear and concise. No misunderstandings. Especially since you are considering changing how you act towards him. You need to be clear WHY and consistent in telling him how you feel.

You guys can't keep going like this. You've put as much into it as you could. You really have done a lot and from what I can tell everything that you should have. I don't know if you could have put in more or even if you had 180ed harder it would have mattered. He has already decided to treat you like cr*p. 

Your right to be concerned that it doesn't happen in depression, but what would hopefully happen is he would have the space and time and clear signals that he has made these decisions, and then chose what his next move is. Hopefully his next move is to fix his depression first and then think clearly about what happened and why.



> I want to set boundaries, because I've let him walk all over me.


 You need to. There was a good post on here about how to deal with anxious and depressed people that I'll never be able to find again. The poster talked about keeping clear boundaries, and if those are crossed backing it up with an action. Coming from depression, anxiety, and the constant urge to get addicted to substances (I have to be very careful with caffine/alcohol/etc), its probably the way to go. 

You posted on my story that we are similar in many ways. Please draw those boundaries out of self respect. Make it clear and concise how you feel. Through the fog of depression, the only thing you hear is the actions, clear and consistent (repeated or written down) boundaries and consequences. 

You very well may need to treat you husband similar to how people treat addicts. Protect yourself, stay strong, keep solid boundaries, tell them they can come back to your life when they are clean, and be hopeful that one day their loving SO may return, but enabling them to hurt you or continue with unhealthly actions is a thing of the past.

Is there a women's shelter in your area where you could find a support group? Sometimes religious organizations also have support groups if you are so inclined. This forum is great, but sometimes interactions in person can be powerful too.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks. I hate being in this place. *I tried to tell him via text last night that he had treated me unfairly and not put my needs first.* However, I don't think he'd respond very nicely to an ultimatum. He is done. He would be willing to move on no problem, I think. He doesn't want the marriage, because it's easier to leave it. He's not willing to do anything, lift a finger, or anything to make things better. Including MC.
> 
> I even asked him at the end of the conversation, *I said "when you cool off we need to discuss some things*" to which he replied "it will be a long while before I start to cool off" and I just replied "fine". That was the end of the convo. I am pretty much in no contact. The think about the letter, is that he didn't even process it or read it carefully because he was so pissed about me "digging" for something. No more letters from me. No more text conversations. No more talks. I'm waiting this out, and if divorce papers come, I will contest. Just so he knows I'm committed to the marriage. He thinks its past the point of no return. Why? All I've done is try. Yes, I've pushed him away by being suspicious and snooping, but he's done nothing to help me. He's choosing his actions and being selfish. Internal struggle or not.


 If your conversations have been like this, it's not surprising that he's still resisting. All he sees when he deals with you is you telling him how bad/wrong/unfit he is.

In his mind, better to just walk away than live with someone who simply makes him feel bad.


----------



## Crankshaw

Runs like Dog said:


> You youngsters and your gadgets....text message war......snort!


you must be old, mind you, I haven't had a txt msg war, guess that makes me old as well ! hmmmmm


----------



## Oak

One time an older gentleman called me a "buffoon" when I was responding to a text during a bumper pool game.

But he had a mohawk so I let it go.


----------



## Crankshaw

anx said:


> The only suggest I have is to lay this out clearly for him in a brief e-mail so that there is not a misunderstanding. Your letter was pretty epic.


That is was.



> 4-7 sentences of what you are choosing to do and what his choices are. Where you stand and why. That you are still currently interested in MC, but that won't last.


short and to the point, non emotional.
Write it out, submit it here, and allow the people here to tear it to pieces and put it back together is the way to go I think.


----------



## Runs like Dog

Crankshaw said:


> you must be old, mind you, I haven't had a txt msg war, guess that makes me old as well ! hmmmmm


I use thousands of SMS a month - but for information etc. If I need to talk to someone I will talk to them. Email, sms, voicemail is just more ways to screen out people. 

What next? People here already complain about facebook battles. I don't if that 's sad or funny. Maybe both. There's a French word for that, chantepleure.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> If your conversations have been like this, it's not surprising that he's still resisting. All he sees when he deals with you is you telling him how bad/wrong/unfit he is.
> 
> In his mind, better to just walk away than live with someone who simply makes him feel bad.


What is wrong with saying "that he had treated me unfairly and not put my needs first" and "when you cool off we need to discuss some things"? He was cursing at me like crazy and basically speaking at me like I was his child. He did treat me unfairly and did not put my needs first. He knows this. If he is in an EA or not, it's still the case. I have told him time and time again how uncomfortable I was with him being friends with her. He was selfish about it and insisted that it was nothing and just expected me to believe him and accept all the lies. Even after he was caught. And right now, he's also not putting my feelings first, as he's worried about how he looks to her and not to me. What would have been the best way to respond? And most of our conversations are about how he is so emotionally drained and can't do anything to commit to this marriage, but he loves me. He came AT me last night. I was on the defense. 

I need examples of how to deal with him. He's treating me like a doormat. How am I supposed to give him affirmation and make him feel good? All he does is trample all over my heart.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Crankshaw said:


> That is was.
> 
> short and to the point, non emotional.
> Write it out, submit it here, and allow the people here to tear it to pieces and put it back together is the way to go I think.


GOT IT! And was my letter epic because it was like a novel, or because it was profound?  Not that it matters since he dismissed it in his state of anger, which just got worse when the ex gf called him yesterday.

I will work on the letter after my appointment with my therapist tomorrow. H is coming to get the kids and then dropping them off after my appointment. Tomorrow is also the day he said he was going to see an attorney, so I wonder if he will. It's his day off, and who knows what he'll do after how angry and "done" he was last night.


----------



## anx

epic because with all he is dealing with, anything over 10 sentences isn't going to go well. It was the same thing with my wife. You misword something and it goes poorly, and with a letter that long, something is going to hit wrong.


----------



## Jellybeans

It was epic because it was 

1. Too long (just like an epic is)
2. Too emotional
3. Too placating (towards him)
4. Too groveling (towards him)
5. Too much of "What can I do to make everything better for you and keep being your doormat."

Sorry but that is how I read it. You came across as desperate, not as a strong woman who is not going to tolerate his BS. 

I am sorry if that comes across as harsh but it'd do you better to tell him what you WON'T accept and what you WILL accept and keep it short and sweet. Stop giving him all your power. Take your power back.


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> Thats why I suggested being clear and concise. No misunderstandings. Especially since you are considering changing how you act towards him. You need to be clear WHY and consistent in telling him how you feel.
> 
> What would hopefully happen is he would have the space and time and clear signals that he has made these decisions, and then chose what his next move is. Hopefully his next move is to fix his depression first and then think clearly about what happened and why.
> 
> The poster talked about keeping clear boundaries, and if those are crossed backing it up with an action. Make it clear and concise how you feel. Through the fog of depression, the only thing you hear is the actions, clear and consistent (repeated or written down) boundaries and consequences.
> 
> You very well may need to treat you husband similar to how people treat addicts. Protect yourself, stay strong, keep solid boundaries, tell them they can come back to your life when they are clean, and be hopeful that one day their loving SO may return, but enabling them to hurt you or continue with unhealthly actions is a thing of the past.


You're right, we can't keep going like this. It's getting worse and worse by the second. And according to him he is done with it all. He did everything but saying the actual word. When I think back to him saying he wanted to separate "because we stand a better chance apart than together right now" he acted like he wanted us to work. But he never did anything. It's been 3 1/2 weeks and it's done nothing but go downhill. He says we needed a cool down period, but how long is that before ANYTHING gets initiated? 

He's seemed to pass the stage of sadness and is now more angry than anything. Makes me wonder if this is really depression or if it's all been THE fog from the EA that he insists doesn't exist. I'll look for that post on dealing with depression. I don't know what boundaries to put forth? And will this be seen as controlling or a b!tch move that just irks him more? That's why I haven't changed the locks, although I don't want him here when I'm not here.

I'm not sure how I should change how I act towards him. I'm pretty much going no contact except texts regarding the kids. I told him in the original letter I was pulling back. I feel like I have done everything I could. I've changed, I've self-reflected, but to him I'm just this crazy irrational suspicious wife. And if this EA is happening, I've come too close to home for him and almost found out. Or rocked the boat between the two of them. If no EA, that's where this is just plain hurtful. Even if he's depressed, his whole thing has been about "not hurting me anymore". 

I get the consistency, but how do I constantly let him know that "I'm here if he'd like to go to marriage counseling, I love you, and I would like our marriage to work" without sounding desperate? Especially if I say it in a letter or email and then we keep up with NC? And it's like I can't even elude to anything about the OW, because it drives him running the other way. It seems I also need to make clear how his actions have affected me. Do I also apologize for my snooping? I need to figure out what to say to him and how. I think he's sick of my letters, tbh. 

I have lots of support from friends. I don't really have time or means to find a local group. But I have 2 good friends that talk me down from the crazy behaviors, well most of 'em.  

I thank you again, anx. I'm at the end of my rope with barely a thread hanging on. I just can't see coming back from this, but I still don't get him one bit.


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> epic because with all he is dealing with, anything over 10 sentences isn't going to go well. It was the same thing with my wife. You misword something and it goes poorly, and with a letter that long, something is going to hit wrong.


Yeah, I was afraid of that. But I needed to pour my heart out one last time I guess. It was hard to validate his feelings and state my side. I wonder what he took wrong that really struck a nerve after the previous night where I met him at his parents and had rang the ex gf. Which was a disaster. Never seen him so mad.



Jellybeans said:


> It was epic because it was
> 
> 1. Too long (just like an epic is)
> 2. Too emotional
> 3. Too placating (towards him)
> 4. Too groveling (towards him)
> 5. Too much of "What can I do to make everything better for you and keep being your doormat."
> 
> Sorry but that is how I read it. You came across as desperate, not as a strong woman who is not going to tolerate his BS.
> 
> I am sorry if that comes across as harsh but it'd do you better to tell him what you WON'T accept and what you WILL accept and keep it short and sweet. Stop giving him all your power. Take your power back.


I love ya, Jelly. I understand. It was emotional, and heartfelt. I needed to get it all out. He knows where I stand now. And the fact that he responded the way he did tells me that my feelings don't matter. So, you're right. I can't be a doormat anymore. This next letter will be a hard one to write. How do I tell him I can't tolerate his BS without coming off b!tchy?


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> What is wrong with saying "that he had treated me unfairly and not put my needs first" and "when you cool off we need to discuss some things"? He was cursing at me like crazy and basically speaking at me like I was his child. He did treat me unfairly and did not put my needs first. He knows this. If he is in an EA or not, it's still the case. I have told him time and time again how uncomfortable I was with him being friends with her. He was selfish about it and insisted that it was nothing and just expected me to believe him and accept all the lies. Even after he was caught. And right now, he's also not putting my feelings first, as he's worried about how he looks to her and not to me. What would have been the best way to respond? And most of our conversations are about how he is so emotionally drained and can't do anything to commit to this marriage, but he loves me. He came AT me last night. I was on the defense.
> 
> I need examples of how to deal with him. He's treating me like a doormat. How am I supposed to give him affirmation and make him feel good? All he does is trample all over my heart.


 What is wrong is that - just as YOU have reacted to HIS condemning words - the *instant* you start with saying things like *'you need to* cool off' or '*you did this* wrong,' THEY STOP LISTENING. Understand? You just told me that YOU were on the defensive. Do you not think that _he feels the exact same way_ every time you tell him what he's doing wrong?

ONE of you has to get smart about this and follow a plan, instead of just reacting to each other and creating a War of the Roses. You'll never get what you want that way.

Look, YOU want this marriage right now. HE doesn't. 

Therefore, YOU have to be smarter about how you're dealing with him. Calm. Wise. Fetching. Full of self-respect. Willing to walk away if he won't treat you with dignity and respect.

THAT is the woman who will get his attention, to whom he will listen.

Not the one he's used to, who tells him how screwed up he is, what he's doing wrong, and how much he offends you.

Rise above the fog babble. Be smarter. 

Know your goals and don't deviate from them. Talk ONLY about your goals and how/if he can meet them. Be humble enough to ask him what it would take from YOU for him to feel safe with you. And at the same time, maintain your points - "I will not share you with another woman, friend or not. When you tell her intimate thoughts and feelings that you should be sharing with your wife, it is emotional cheating, and I can't live in that kind of marriage. Let me know when you want to recommit to our marriage, and I'll be glad to talk about what BOTH of us need in this marriage. I'm ready to do MY part to make this a better marriage; are you?"

As for how to deal with him, simply state your boundaries, and GIVE HIM CONSEQUENCES when he oversteps those boundaries. "I will not be yelled at. Call me back when you're ready to talk without namecalling." And hang up.


----------



## Crankshaw

Runs like Dog said:


> I use thousands of SMS a month - but for information etc. If I need to talk to someone I will talk to them. Email, sms, voicemail is just more ways to screen out people.


Don't have a problem with that myself 



> What next? People here already complain about facebook battles. I don't if that 's sad or funny. Maybe both. There's a French word for that, chantepleure.


----------



## Jellybeans

If you want to write a new letter, we'll edit/critique it for you. 

Stating your boundaries and what you'll put up with IS NOT the same as being *****y. It involves being a person who knows what they want out of life. There is nothing more respectable than a person who respects themselves (hello, redunancy) LOL


----------



## Crankshaw

Jellybeans said:


> If you want to write a new letter, we'll edit/critique it for you.
> 
> Stating your boundaries and what you'll put up with IS NOT the same as being *****y. It involves being a person who knows what they want out of life. There is nothing more respectable than a person who respects themselves (hello, redunancy) LOL


This FTW. 

Too many good people here who offer their help, no strings attached, to turn sown the offers...


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> What is wrong is that - just as YOU have reacted to HIS condemning words - the *instant* you start with saying things like *'you need to* cool off' or '*you did this* wrong,' THEY STOP LISTENING. Understand? You just told me that YOU were on the defensive. Do you not think that _he feels the exact same way_ every time you tell him what he's doing wrong?
> 
> ONE of you has to get smart about this and follow a plan, instead of just reacting to each other and creating a War of the Roses. You'll never get what you want that way.
> 
> Look, YOU want this marriage right now. HE doesn't.
> 
> Therefore, YOU have to be smarter about how you're dealing with him. Calm. Wise. Fetching. Full of self-respect. Willing to walk away if he won't treat you with dignity and respect.
> 
> THAT is the woman who will get his attention, to whom he will listen.
> 
> Not the one he's used to, who tells him how screwed up he is, what he's doing wrong, and how much he offends you.
> 
> Rise above the fog babble. Be smarter.
> 
> Know your goals and don't deviate from them. Talk ONLY about your goals and how/if he can meet them. Be humble enough to ask him what it would take from YOU for him to feel safe with you. And at the same time, maintain your points - "I will not share you with another woman, friend or not. When you tell her intimate thoughts and feelings that you should be sharing with your wife, it is emotional cheating, and I can't live in that kind of marriage. Let me know when you want to recommit to our marriage, and I'll be glad to talk about what BOTH of us need in this marriage. I'm ready to do MY part to make this a better marriage; are you?"
> 
> As for how to deal with him, simply state your boundaries, and GIVE HIM CONSEQUENCES when he oversteps those boundaries. "I will not be yelled at. Call me back when you're ready to talk without namecalling." And hang up.


I guess maybe I'm not getting how to give him consequences, set boundaries, and not tell him what he is doing to me? I really tried last night to just defend myself without attacking him, I did. But damn he was vicious. 

I can tell you right now, if I said to him (or wrote) what you wrote he would just say "No, I don't have anything left to give." And he would flip out because I mentioned another woman. And for stating boundaries, it isn't like ahead of time boundaries? It's just in the moment? I guess there are both types. "I will not be second best. Let me know when you'd like to make your wife a priority." 

I sit and wonder what would have happened if I ignored his text yesterday or told him that once he calmed down we could talk. He made it sound like he was going to explode if he didn't vent it all to me. But he had to have gotten more worked up texting me. 

I really wish he wanted to save this. He's said he wants to, but doesn't know how. Has no energy to try anything, etc. Wah.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> If you want to write a new letter, we'll edit/critique it for you.
> 
> Stating your boundaries and what you'll put up with IS NOT the same as being *****y. It involves being a person who knows what they want out of life. There is nothing more respectable than a person who respects themselves (hello, redunancy) LOL


I appreciate it. I know it has to be short and to the point. That's the hard part!



Crankshaw said:


> This FTW.
> 
> Too many good people here who offer their help, no strings attached, to turn sown the offers...


Gotcha! I didn't put the last letter here first because I had no time. I felt like I had to get it to him before Sunday and it took me ALL day to write it. I need to let him cool down before I push anything else at him. That is, if he doesn't file for divorce tomorrow.


----------



## Syrum

Do you really want a marriage with someone who would cheat on you, doesn't respect you, lies to you and manipulates you?

You are not being a b!tch by telling him you do not want that and will not put up with it.

I agree with every thing jellybean said.

Do not cater to him.


----------



## anx

> I'm at the end of my rope with barely a thread hanging on. I just can't see coming back from this, but I still don't get him one bit.


 I felt like this a lot of times. Your right it may be over, but love is a weird thing sometimes. What should be impossible to fix does sometimes work out.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I guess maybe I'm not getting how to give him consequences, set boundaries, and not tell him what he is doing to me? I really tried last night to just defend myself without attacking him, I did. But damn he was vicious.
> 
> I can tell you right now, if I said to him (or wrote) what you wrote he would just say "No, I don't have anything left to give." And he would flip out because I mentioned another woman. And for stating boundaries, it isn't like ahead of time boundaries? It's just in the moment? I guess there are both types. "I will not be second best. Let me know when you'd like to make your wife a priority."
> 
> I sit and wonder what would have happened if I ignored his text yesterday or told him that once he calmed down we could talk. He made it sound like he was going to explode if he didn't vent it all to me. But he had to have gotten more worked up texting me.
> 
> I really wish he wanted to save this. He's said he wants to, but doesn't know how. Has no energy to try anything, etc. Wah.


 Stop making this about him.

Any conversations with him should be about YOU. 

"I'm disappointed you don't want to try to save this family. I'm grieving for the kids, who will be torn apart."

"I don't deserve to be yelled at, and neither do you. Call me back when you can talk calmly. I'm hanging up now."

"I know you don't want to discuss your friend XX; that's your choice. But I cannot discuss anything with you until that's covered, because I'm being replaced in my own marriage. Let me know if you want to work on US."

Statements like these are about you, not him, and are setting your boundaries of what you'll accept in your marriage.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Syrum said:


> Do you really want a marriage with someone who would cheat on you, doesn't respect you, lies to you and manipulates you?


No, I don't. But I guess I feel like this isn't the guy I married. I want to be married to that guy. 




anx said:


> I felt like this a lot of times. Your right it may be over, but love is a weird thing sometimes. What should be impossible to fix does sometimes work out.


Only time will tell...



turnera said:


> Stop making this about him.
> 
> Any conversations with him should be about YOU.
> 
> "I'm disappointed you don't want to try to save this family. I'm grieving for the kids, who will be torn apart."
> 
> "I don't deserve to be yelled at, and neither do you. Call me back when you can talk calmly. I'm hanging up now."
> 
> "I know you don't want to discuss your friend XX; that's your choice. But I cannot discuss anything with you until that's covered, because I'm being replaced in my own marriage. Let me know if you want to work on US."
> 
> Statements like these are about you, not him, and are setting your boundaries of what you'll accept in your marriage.


Yeah, I've done this. Most my statements are like that. I didn't tell him he needed to call down, I told him that WHEN he calmed down we needed to talk. I also say "I'm hurt that you put her needs above mine." He seems to respond the same way. If I insinuate that he's having an EA, he'll respond like he did last night where he tells me to believe whatever it is I want to believe if it makes it easier. It was really cryptic and weird. 

I need to think about my boundaries. He doesn't even want to talk to me, so I just don't know. I can't present like an ultimatum, he goes against those in a bad way.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Off to bed to cry myself to sleep. It's rainy, I'm lonely, my H is an @ss. And the more I look at the evidence, the more obvious it is that these aren't coincidences. The chances of them being "just friends" that barely ever talk are close to zilch. He might be depressed, but he's also being pulled away. No matter how many times he denies it. I think he realizes he's shattered my trust so he's trying to end it before he goes down as the bad guy. He says he'll be the bad guy but he's telling himself he's the patron saint.


----------



## Neil

LonelyNLost said:


> He doesn't even want to talk to me, so I just don't know.


from an outsider here...

this is absolutley not true.

from what you write here, You are both in constant contact.

Leave him alone, let him fester in his own **** for a while.

DO NOT talk to him, text him or anything or respond to him at all until their is something positive to respond to. You are playing his game and falling into it.

Anyone who is in an affair will constantly and persistently shift the blame onto his partner. Can't you see that?

Now, I have read enough on here to understand that generally people start making progress when they accept that they are prepared to lose them. You are so not prepared to do that, hence the questioning constantly on the Why's, what fors etc etc.

It keeps being said on here and I will say it again in case you keep missing it (you do have kids here).

Concentrate on YOU and your KIDS.. ONLY, nothing else.

I guess if I could peek into your house at the moment, you are koping around, crying, upset etc etc. YOUR KIDS ARE PICKING UP ON THIS AND IT WILL BE AFFECTING THEM.

Please, please please, put all your efforts of what you are trying to put to your ****head of a husband into YOU and your KIDS


----------



## LonelyNLost

Neil said:


> from an outsider here...
> 
> this is absolutley not true.
> 
> from what you write here, You are both in constant contact.
> 
> Leave him alone, let him fester in his own **** for a while.
> 
> DO NOT talk to him, text him or anything or respond to him at all until their is something positive to respond to. You are playing his game and falling into it.
> 
> Anyone who is in an affair will constantly and persistently shift the blame onto his partner. Can't you see that?
> 
> Now, I have read enough on here to understand that generally people start making progress when they accept that they are prepared to lose them. You are so not prepared to do that, hence the questioning constantly on the Why's, what fors etc etc.
> 
> It keeps being said on here and I will say it again in case you keep missing it (you do have kids here).
> 
> Concentrate on YOU and your KIDS.. ONLY, nothing else.
> 
> I guess if I could peek into your house at the moment, you are koping around, crying, upset etc etc. YOUR KIDS ARE PICKING UP ON THIS AND IT WILL BE AFFECTING THEM.
> 
> Please, please please, put all your efforts of what you are trying to put to your ****head of a husband into YOU and your KIDS


The only contact we've had since last Fri was the texts he sent asking when he could pick up the kids (3 texts) and then Mon night's text conversation that was full of anger and being "done" with our marriage. Before that, he'd call on his way home, small talk, etc. Slowly pulled away saying goodnight, and then the ILU's became scarce. 

I actually do a pretty good job of a brave face around my kids. I don't let them see me cry. But yesterday I was very down, and I let them know I was sad. My son and I talked last night and he asked questions and I teared up and so did he. He desont' need to know about the OW, but if I get confirmation he is going to know that daddy has a girlfriend. I don't want him to hate his dad, and I kept saying that daddy is a good dad and loves him and his sister, but he's not being a good husband right now.

I am working on my kids and I. They keep me going each day. I am just really struggling with what he's doing to us. And how this time is different from the last. He's using the last time to fuel a lot of his action and inaction. Like not talking to his friends. Maybe the depression is some of it, but I think the depression is a result of how he feels about himself right now.

I'm steering clear. We'll see how things go in a week and maybe I'll write out some boundaries. But I just don't know.


----------



## LonelyNLost

I've been thinking a lot, because it's all I can do. Even while I sleep.  I think that he never intended to get attached to her, but that it happened mid October. Just to clear my head, I almost want to write out all the "red flags". But I think he knew he was getting attached, and within weeks was in the fog. He minimized our anniversary, didn't even respond to my 10th anniversary post on his fb wall because she would see. Then I bust him end of Nov talking to her, he of course has excuses for this. He is angry and not willing to cut it off because he's already convinced I'm at fault. He's being selfish. He immediately realizes that what he's doing is wrong, and he's afraid of hurting me. He thinks back to the pain he caused 4 years ago, and it's all he can think of. He says to himself that she'll never forgive me if she finds out I've done it again, but this might be safe since this chick lives 3,000 miles away. And "it isn't like this is going to turn into anything". I just don't think I can be happy with my wife, look how easily I connected with someone else, and we aren't like that anymore. We grew apart. 

Then I fight for him. I throw our vows in his face and talk out my concerns. We play a board game with our son and during that, he realizes what he has to lose. So he commits. He tells himself that he is going to try and see what happens. He does try and things get good, but the OW is talking in his ear. He has his trip out to where she lives planned, and he is telling himself he won't see her. But he considers it, to see if what he feels is real, both between me AND her. He goes, and in inner conflict. His best friend sees it. He sees her, maybe nothing happens, maybe something happens. Might never know. Or maybe they just talk on the phone. They reconnect. I'm at home being insecure, so he is able to go back into his mode of "she doesn't trust me because of 4 years ago and no matter what I do I can't change that." 

He comes back home and looks for reasons to be unhappy with me. We get into arguments and then by day 3 back he is emailing her. He's telling me as we argue, "I just wish you would tell me your needs so I can fill them." I do tell him my needs, to which he starts to then say, "I can't make you happy. I try but nothing I do is good enough. You deserve better." He is being pulled towards her. He makes it all about him and how he's a piece of crap, but he continues his friendship with her. I discover her fb post where she says the place she'd most like to visit is our hometown. I friend request her. He flips out and is so angry about this and embarrassed, says I don't know her so why do I want to be friends with her? I tell him "to make my presence known". The whole time, he's worrying about me contacting her. Then he tells me, "if your goal was that she didn't talk to me much anymore, then you've accomplished that." We have a good weekend and he takes me on our first date in ages. But then she gets her claws back into him. He starts saying he needs to "find himself" and starts will all the "self defeated, confused, emotionally drained" lines. Because he's so torn over everything. 

He knows what he's feeling is wrong, and his justification of his actions is becoming thin because I'm not being crazy. He is disconnecting from me more and more. I notice and say something. He freaks out. I tell him he's either IN or OUT and he gets upset. I allow him to go on his trip to "find himself" where he probably talked to her the whole time, or she could have come here and spent it with him. She did block me from her wall the same day he left. So I then deleted her as a fb friend. Kind of regret that now. H never wears sunscreen and I guarantee he would have been burned. Takes cash for everything, no paper trail of where he went, except near the beach on the 3rd day. He says he watched the sunset. But if he had a guest, the beach would be a great place to take her. Who knows. He then comes back in the most negative place yet. Tells me everything but saying the actual words "it's over" because "that's too final". I tell him he needs motivation. Needs to see what he has to lose. He feels relieved in that I'm "telling" him to leave. Where he can get closer to her, talk to her when he wants, and not hide anything. And he even feeds me lines about us going on dates and how we stand a better chance apart right now. Says he wants to reconnect after a cooling off period. But all the time, he's not putting forth any effort. He's left me with everything. 

I tell him I think someone is talking in his ear, he gets so angry and defensive. Tells me everytime I accuse him, I push him away more. Then he makes it about how he cant make me happy, nothing he says is right, even his feelings are wrong. This is all a guise. I then "catch" him talking to her by calling her phone and letting it ring, and it freaks him out. He knows I'm close to finding out, so he's nervous. He won't take the computer because I'm sure he's scared that I've installed a keylogger. Then I write him a heartfelt letter that makes him feel like crap, so it just lets him keep his anger, because anger is easier to deal with than guilt. Then he finds out I messaged HER soon to be ex, and he is really mad, because he knows I'm close to finding something. So he takes the approach that he's done with me, and I can stop digging because he'll just say that whatever I think is true so that I stop snooping. But I'm not done. I think I need to put a voice activated recorder in his truck. I want to know the truth. I really do. It's the only way I'd move forward. I think I know the truth without it, but for peace of mind. Right now, he's done with me. He is more angry than guilty because to him, my actions are out of control. He's justifying his actions by blameshifting. Who knows where we go from here. But this is my theory. I'm so close to catching him, that his conscience is on overdrive.


----------



## Babyheart

I think so too. Like you said, anger is so much easier than the guilt he should be feeling. 

Get that VAR into his truck. You need solid proof.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Babyheart said:


> I think so too. Like you said, anger is so much easier than the guilt he should be feeling.
> 
> Get that VAR into his truck. You need solid proof.


Would it be a complete b!tch mood to say that to him next time he's nasty to me? "If it makes you feel better to treat me this way, fine. Anger is easier to deal with than guilt." 

Part of me says I need solid proof. An affair is the only reason our marriage would go downhill so quickly. The only reason he'd say the things he has. The only reason he'd give up on our marriage and justify to himself that the kids would be better off with us separate. And he's rewritten history. And blameshifted, but when I accepted the blame he felt worse. This all makes total sense. And this is the chick that he broke up with when they were 16-17 because his mom was sick with cancer, and he wasn't paying enough attention to her. So she said, "Whatever is going to happen with your mom is going to happen. But you need to pay me more attention or I'm going to break up with you." And he dumped her. She got no closure. So she's coming back for more. I mean, H even ranted the other day about my guy friend on fb messaging him for an apology and hoping he didn't cause problems. Why would that piss him off? Because he feels guilty. 

But then again, what would I even do with solid proof? Except expose expose expose? I think the marriage is over.


----------



## Babyheart

What a cow that old GF is. If you husband is involved with that mess, he needs his head checked. 

re the proof, for me before I found the valentines card from my Hs skank, I went back & forth blaming myself for much of this. I wasn't there enough, maybe he is depressed, its his drinking, blah, blah. 

Now I see that yes, perhaps it is true I was not there enough for him as he needed but there is no excuse for a spouse to cheat. NEVER, EVER.  Until then, I think I made excuses for him. And now I wonder if this new him is here forever, and you know what, I do not want or need such a horrible creature in my life. I am not sure, perhaps it makes it easier to accept what is happening, and once you accept it, you can move forward. And moving forward, painful as it may be, is the only way out of the mess. 

He has been a lot nicer since I have stepped way back. I ended my last email to him regarding our issues with this: 
_I wish you would try to work on this, but you have no intention of doing that. I don't know if this is because of you & her or what. I really don't know. I see what kind of mother she is to her children, and I do not want that type of woman in my children's lives. I hope that you can see that too, and respect that._

Since then all contact has been about children, and schedules. he has started to ask for me when he calls the kids, and asks how I am doing, what I am doing etc. I am very vague with my answers, and I do not ask him the same (not sure if I should??)


----------



## LonelyNLost

Babyheart said:


> What a cow that old GF is. If you husband is involved with that mess, he needs his head checked.
> 
> re the proof, for me before I found the valentines card from my Hs skank, I went back & forth blaming myself for much of this. I wasn't there enough, maybe he is depressed, its his drinking, blah, blah.
> 
> Now I see that yes, perhaps it is true I was not there enough for him as he needed but there is no excuse for a spouse to cheat. NEVER, EVER.  Until then, I think I made excuses for him. And now I wonder if this new him is here forever, and you know what, I do not want or need such a horrible creature in my life. I am not sure, perhaps it makes it easier to accept what is happening, and once you accept it, you can move forward. And moving forward, painful as it may be, is the only way out of the mess.
> 
> He has been a lot nicer since I have stepped way back. I ended my last email to him regarding our issues with this:
> _I wish you would try to work on this, but you have no intention of doing that. I don't know if this is because of you & her or what. I really don't know. I see what kind of mother she is to her children, and I do not want that type of woman in my children's lives. I hope that you can see that too, and respect that._
> 
> Since then all contact has been about children, and schedules. he has started to ask for me when he calls the kids, and asks how I am doing, what I am doing etc. I am very vague with my answers, and I do not ask him the same (not sure if I should??)


Sounds exactly like the way I am feeling. Did he get angry with your accusations and treat you like crap? I feel like he's all angry now because he wants me to get angry back. Then it would be easier. I have to accept that he's doing this. He is being unfaithful, whether he intended to or not. He's weak. No wonder he's depressed, and confused, and lost, he's got the angel and the devil fighting in his head. But this is his to deal with. I can't do or say anything to change his mind. I need to give her a piece of my mind. He gets mad that I call her and let it ring? He gets mad that I message her ex? Well what's he going to think when I call her at work and ask for her and then give her a piece of my mind? I have ALL the right in the world to fight for him. He's MY husband. 

I was looking into the divorce process in case he files today like he threatened to on Friday. It looks like he can file, then I have 20 days to respond. If I contest, we meet in front of a judge and the judge most likely orders marriage counseling, mediation, parenting classes, psychiatrists, etc. for one or both parties. This will delay the process for up to 3 months. So I feel like telling him, you can go with me to marriage counseling now, or you can do it after you file. But you are going to have to go.


----------



## Jellybeans

So are you going to get proof or just sit back and relax while he has his little joyride?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> So are you going to get proof or just sit back and relax while he has his little joyride?


I'd love proof, but how? My only option is voice activated recorder in his truck, but not sure how to get it there without him finding out or being suspicious. And driving him away even more. Not that it can get much worse. I guess I could ask if I could borrow his truck to take some things to salvation army, but I really don't think he'd let me. He'd tell me he'll take the stuff. And even then I'm not sure if it would pick anything up. His truck is really loud when it runs, and I can only think of taping it with duct tape to the bottom of the seat. My stomach is in knots. I also think his friend isn't talking to me anymore, not to be mean but to stay out of it. Next move is to talk to the best friend's sister. The one he mentioned in his note. Do I write anything back to her ex? I thought about at least writing, "Thanks a lot." But I really don't know if they get along and he ran to her and showed it to her, or if he was pissed and attacked her about it. I'm thinking it caused some problems somewhere, because of how mad my H was and saying he looks like a fool.


----------



## Jellybeans

Private investigator? VAR?

What did he say abou the bf's sister?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Private investigator? VAR?
> 
> What did he say abou the bf's sister?


The best friend said a good person to contact is his sister. She was at our wedding too, and we are facebook friends. He said that she wasn't very happy with my H right now. I don't know if he meant it would do anything, but if she gets aggravated enough she'd call my H. 

How much does a PI cost? And how would they catch an EA with someone who lives 3000 miles away?


----------



## Jellybeans

Why would she be a good person to contact? Does she know more stuff?

Idk how much a PI costs. You will have to research your yellow pages or google for you area.

Seems the most practical thing right now is to go with a VAR.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Why would she be a good person to contact? Does she know more stuff?
> 
> Idk how much a PI costs. You will have to research your yellow pages or google for you area.
> 
> Seems the most practical thing right now is to go with a VAR.


I think he just meant for a sounding board and an activist, lol. She lives in Utah, so it's not like she can confront the OW. 

I think a PI is expensive. I guess most practical would be the VAR, but it might be a waste if he suspects it and doesn't let me use his truck, or if he finds it that would be detrimental. Also not sure if it would pick anything up since his truck is so loud.


----------



## Jellybeans

Why would he suspect it?

If you never try it you will never know.


----------



## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> Why would he suspect it?
> 
> If you never try it you will never know.


What did his mom say? I'd message the sister too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Babyheart

Does he take the kids in his truck? I would sew it into a toy that gets "left behind".

Try it and see. Odds are he will be talking when the truck is not running too.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Why would he suspect it?
> 
> If you never try it you will never know.


I just think he knows I'm hell bent on finding the truth. Which is why he's willing to throw our family away and move out of the house. He deletes internet history each night, he erases all sent messages from his phone, he clears his facebook out and then changes all his passwords. He's obviously trying to be careful. He will not take the computer, and I'm not sure he even knows about keyloggers, lol. So I really think he'd be suspicious and not do anything nice for me. Though after Friday night's deal where I called the OW and let the phone ring twice and he was so mad he said he's calling an attorney, he came by the house on Monday. He took the trash out and loaded the dishwasher. And ate food. 

I guess I still have a little doubt about the EA, dumb me.  He's just so darn believable. But I don't know what else makes sense. If I put the VAR in, and he finds it, I'm toast. But I might already be toast. Then the problem comes with getting it back out. How would I do that? How long do those things last?



golfergirl said:


> What did his mom say? I'd message the sister too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, his mom and I haven't really talked since the day after he came back from "finding himself". I've attempted to call her or message her and she always has an excuse. Says she loves me and is not ignoring me. I texted her the other day that I had figured out what is going on and it's bigger than what I can handle. She wanted to know and I just said, "fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on you" so I'm sure she figured it out. I just wonder WHAT she knows. If anything. Because when we did talk, she said that the OW was bad news and agreed that my H has some obsession with his youth, just as his best friend told me. 

The sister is not my H's sister, it's the sister of the best friend. I am going to send her a message and just ask what she knows. I'm desperate for answers at this point. Is he so afraid of me saying, "I told you so?" Is he that fearful of me knowing the truth and telling him I was right all along? Or is it the fear of me hating him?


----------



## turnera

Probably the fear of you chewing him out.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I just think he knows I'm hell bent on finding the truth. Which is why he's willing to throw our family away and move out of the house. He deletes internet history each night, he erases all sent messages from his phone, he clears his facebook out and then changes all his passwords. He's obviously trying to be careful.


And why would you want to be with someone who would be willing to throw your family away, move out of the house, etc?

People don't delete stuff unless they have something they don't want others finding.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Probably the fear of you chewing him out.


Seriously? I really do not chew him out, contrary to what you believe. And if I caught him having an EA, would I not be entitled to chew him out?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> And why would you want to be with someone who would be willing to throw your family away, move out of the house, etc?
> 
> People don't delete stuff unless they have something they don't want others finding.


You're right, they don't. He has excuses for everything. The internet history is so "the computer doesn't go slow". And the phone is because "I've always deleted my sent, I don't need to know what I said" and the passwords were because I told him I wanted to trust him and I wasn't going to snoop, so he did it "because I told him to".  

I don't think I want to be with someone like that.


----------



## Jellybeans

Your move, Lonely.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Your move, Lonely.


Yes, it is. Today he pulled up to school (I teach and my son goes to my school) to pick up our son and had told him last night that he'd just text me. Well, I saw him sitting out there for a bit, then he tried to call me. I didn't answer. Then he texted asking if I could please send him out. I didn't even respond, just sent our son out. 

But I still sit and wonder why he tried to call. Is he trying to gauge whether or not I'm sad or angry? Or did he have something to tell me? During our text fight the other night, he tried to call a few times but I didn't answer and then he'd text that I was ignoring him. And he'd say "so you don't answer. probably best that you didn't". I don't get him. So I'm going to stop trying.


----------



## Jellybeans

I'm confused. Are you guys living together or not?

My advice is to NOT blank him when it comes to the kids.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I'm confused. Are you guys living together or not?
> 
> My advice is to NOT blank him when it comes to the kids.


No, he moved out a month ago. We were communicating with phone calls and texts up until last Friday. Now it's just texts about the kids. 

What do you mean not blank him? I respond when it's about the kids and I told him he could call and talk to them each night, I'm just not talking to him. And he has both of them tonight.


----------



## Jellybeans

Oh. I see. Well that changes things too. Where is he living?

Don't blank him, meaning, don't "stonewall" him with regards to the kids. If he calls asking about them, answer your phone.


----------



## WhereAmI

Jellybeans said:


> Don't blank him, meaning, don't "stonewall" him with regards to the kids. If he calls asking about them, answer your phone.


What is your reasoning for this? 

At the moment her and her H seem to rope each other into conversation about the marriage. Using texts and email she will have time to think rationally before deciding whether or not to respond to his comments. By not answering the phone, she's showing that she will state her boundaries and keep them in place regardless of what he does.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Oh. I see. Well that changes things too. Where is he living?
> 
> Don't blank him, meaning, don't "stonewall" him with regards to the kids. If he calls asking about them, answer your phone.


He is living with his mom and dad, about 30 minutes from us. But he works like a 1/2 mile from our house. You'd think he'd see past his issues and want to see them a lot more. But he was saying at first that it was hard to leave each night and he knew it was hard on me. Whatever.

I am communicating by text. The only way I will. He doesn't even need to hear my voice. As it is, I'm nervous about coming home tonight as he might be there with the kids, dropping them off. I don't want to get roped into another convo. 




WhereAmI said:


> At the moment her and her H seem to rope each other into conversation about the marriage. Using texts and email she will have time to think rationally before deciding whether or not to respond to his comments. By not answering the phone, she's showing that she will state her boundaries and keep them in place regardless of what he does.


:iagree: This. He is constantly baiting me and I can't stand it. I'm a nervous wreck just thinking about having to see him tonight. And by his texts from 2 days ago, we've hit the point of no return. No fixing this. Etc. I don't want to hear anymore.


----------



## Jellybeans

Pull yourself together woman. Stop being a nervous wreck. He's been gone for approx 1 momth. This is a crucial make or break time in your marriage. What you do now could set the tone for a possible reconciliation. If he baits you, don't bite. Agree with him when he starts wantnig to fight you on something. Validate what he is saying!



LonelyNLost said:


> You'd think he'd see past his issues and want to see them a lot more.


Personal responsibility--that is not up to you to do or speculate for him. He *knows* exactly what he's doing. He's a grown man. He has to make his choices for him, realize things for himself. All you can do is play your part being the best person FOR YOU and for YOUR KIDS. 

Now is not the time to turn into a melty woman begging for him back. Be cordial when you see him, light, smile. Don't talk about the relationship (yours or the OW). AT ALL.


----------



## Crankshaw

Jellybeans said:


> Oh. I see. Well that changes things too. Where is he living?
> 
> Don't blank him, meaning, don't "stonewall" him with regards to the kids. If he calls asking about them, answer your phone.


the question is, how do you know it is going to be about the kids, txt msg / email is, IMO, better way to go when possible.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Pull yourself together woman. Stop being a nervous wreck. He's been gone for approx 1 momth. This is a crucial make or break time in your marriage. What you do now could set the tone for a possible reconciliation. If he baits you, don't bite. Agree with him when he starts wantnig to fight you on something. Validate what he is saying!
> 
> Now is not the time to turn into a melty woman begging for him back. Be cordial when you see him, light, smile. Don't talk about the relationship (yours or the OW). AT ALL.



I don't think there's anything left to reconcile. I don't think I want this jerkoff. I'm not biting. I just don't know how to validate all the crazy things he says about me being out of control and crossing lines and making him look like a fool to OW. 

I am going to be cordial, but I don't know about smiles. I'm not starting relationship talk. And I'm definitely not being melty or desperate. That ship has sailed. I looked back at my text responses from the other night and I didn't curse or anything like he was. I just stated the facts. Pissed him off still, but oh well.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Crankshaw said:


> the question is, how do you know it is going to be about the kids, txt msg / email is, IMO, better way to go when possible.


Yeah, that's how I feel. I have no idea what is going to happen on the other end, and I can control it this way. 

I let him call and talk to the kids, but I hand the phone to them and hang it up without talking to him. 

I just haven't learned how to stop even the text message wars. He gets so crazy, almost threatening now.


----------



## Jellybeans

Well if you don't think you want him back, then no worries over him. 

Let him go.

Treat him like you would treat a colleague. Be calm when you see him and collected.


----------



## Babyheart

That's what I am doing now. Very cordial. Even though I want to kick the sh!t out of him...


----------



## LonelyNLost

He dropped the kids off late. And he's not wearing his ring. That was like a shot to the heart.


----------



## Jellybeans

WhereAmI said:


> At the moment her and her H seem to rope each other into conversation about the marriage. Using texts and email she will have time to think rationally before deciding whether or not to respond to his comments. By not answering the phone, she's showing that she will state her boundaries and keep them in place regardless of what he does.


Gotcha. Yeah then stick with the text and emails for now unless it's an emergency.



LonelyNLost said:


> I just haven't learned how to stop even the text message wars. He gets so crazy, almost threatening now.


The way to stop the wars is to NOT respond/react. If he starts texting you some BS, don't respond. 

As for him not wearing his ring--I know it cuts like a knife. But check it out--you need to start acting like your marriage is dead. Like he's gone for good. Hoping and wishful thinking aren't going to work in this case, try as you might. You have to deal with the cards you currently have. 

I just went back and re-read on the 2-3 page here and that long summary he gave you about how he can't be what you need, he feels like a failure, how he can't give you any answers cause he has none...reading it it sounds like that is his guilt talking. He knows he's done wrong. And is trying to talk hisself out of it.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> As for him not wearing his ring--I know it cuts like a knife. But check it out--you need to start acting like your marriage is dead. Like he's gone for good. Hoping and wishful thinking aren't going to work in this case, try as you might. You have to deal with the cards you currently have.
> 
> I just went back and re-read on the 2-3 page here and that long summary he gave you about how he can't be what you need, *he feels like a failure, how he can't give you any answers cause he has none...reading it it sounds like that is his guilt talking. He knows he's done wrong. And is trying to talk hisself out of it*.


It sure does cut like a knife. His best friend messaged me back and said a couple days ago he was less angry, and not to read too much into the ring. But I know my H and I can't help but read into it. He NEVER takes it off.

He does sound like he's in a fog, doesn't he? It's ridiculous.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Wow, I need to get into a doctor. That was the worst sleep OF MY LIFE. I felt like I had a million thoughts racing through my mind, couldn't let them go enough to sleep and I woke up every 15 minutes. I tried to sleep with my rings off, and I think it made it worse. So I'm putting them back on. His best friend replied to my message. I love that guy. Here's his message it was his 2nd reply since I told him about the ring. He told me not to look too much into it as his wife turns all their pictures down when they argue. But I know my H and he's never taken that ring off. 

_You and the kids are welcome here. I talked to *** yesterday morning and he sounded ok, not good but better than before. He is really hiding behind a wall.

I would highly suggest not trying to contact people at this point. If you find something out its going to piss you and him off. If you don't find anything its going to piss him off and confuse you more. So at this point follow your counselors advice and do nothing. I don't think there is much to find out because I think the only injustices being done are in ***'s head. She lives 2500 miles away so unless she became rich and ditched her kid she is here and *** is there._


----------



## turnera

He's comparing her to you, and she's winning, because she's not arguing with him.

Have you read the Plan A material from MB yet?


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> He's comparing her to you, and she's winning, because she's not arguing with him.
> 
> Have you read the Plan A material from MB yet?


I can't expose if I don't find anything out. And I can't find anything out. And I can't be pleasant around him, because I'm not around him. I barely see him when we swap the kids, and I look my best and act fine, not crying or groveling, but I also don't kiss his butt or act pissy. I'm just staying away for now. All I can do. He's got the only people who know about this confused. I'm sure everyone would believe him if I said he was involved in an EA with her.


----------



## turnera

Then you're doing all you can do. But you can be using this time to work on yourself, on the issues that you admitted you have, so that, if he does see what he's doing is wrong, you two can have a better relationship if/when he comes back. Plus, it will help you direct your thoughts away from him, which as you can see is doing you no good.

As everyone keeps telling you, STOP focusing on him and focus on yourself. It's the only thing in your control.


----------



## Jellybeans

Time to stop listening to his friends.

You need to "live in the present" like that one thread says.

Right now he has chosen to leave. You will have to accept that or you cannot move through this.


----------



## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> Time to stop listening to his friends.
> 
> You need to "live in the present" like that one thread says.
> 
> Right now he has chosen to leave. You will have to accept that or you cannot move through this.


He just had kids -right? Well I would plant VAR in his truck now. If you get caught you're just looking for lost binky or stuffed toy or sock or homework. That's if you really think you're ready for the truth and will take action.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

I'm trying to accept that he's left. I'm trying to accept that he's taken his ring off and told me he's had enough. But it's really hard. We had something good. I keep thinking, what in the world has happened that we can't get past? What is so bad that it's worth giving up our marriage and breaking up our kids' family? I am resisting the urge, for now, to ask him to talk. But I know I'd just get the same old thing. I want to ask him to give this some time before he makes any decisions and let him know I'll give him space. Tell him I don't want this. That he's hurting me. But I know it'd be like talking to a wall.  

For whatever reason, be it OW or depression, he has blinders on. And he's treating me like crud. Will he ever realize he's wrong? Who knows? I am working on bettering myself, but I am so damn lonely and mourning the loss of something wonderful. This all happened so fast. 

I know I have to accept that this may be over, but it hurts whichever way. I feel like I've given up on my kids if I accept it and move forward. I will contest the crap out of a divorce and not make it easy for him. Just read that my county is one of the most delayed when it comes to divorces, and they might require marriage counseling or mediation if one party contests.


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> He just had kids -right? Well I would plant VAR in his truck now. If you get caught you're just looking for lost binky or stuffed toy or sock or homework. That's if you really think you're ready for the truth and will take action.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He picked them up in his truck, but brought them home in his mom's car. And they didn't really bring much with them since he picked them up from school/daycare. He didn't say 2 words to me, so I don't know if he wants to see them again this weekend. I'm sort of inclined to say no, because he had them last Sunday and he works tomorrow. He thinks I'm always up to something.


----------



## Jellybeans

WHo knows if he will realize what he's done. Stop focusing on him like the poster(s) above said. You need to think about you and your kids.

Right now he does NOT have your best interest or your kids' best interest. He's in La-La-Land and has decided your marriage is second best to whatever is going on with him.

Yes, you HAVE to accept it's what it is because you have no other choice. He has decided for you. It sucks but you need to deal with your situation as-is.

As far as contesting--I hear ya and understand your frustration. Contested divorce is soo messy and $$$$ expensive. If he has offeredyou ANYTHING, get it in writing right now before he changes his mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you mentioned before he told you to "take it all." If that is still his offer, TAKE IT. 

Move the fence. Right now he's totally comfortable. Make him uncomfortable.


----------



## LonelyNLost

I'm torn. Some are telling me to do nothing and then he's only left with his own thoughts and feelings and not any emotions stirred up by me. And some are telling me to find out the truth and possibly stir things up more. I'm not good with limbo.

The best friend just wrote back and said he wasn't aware of the 5 days my H took to "find himself".  And then he asked me if I ever flat out asked H if I saw OW when he was in Vegas. Of course I did. But I'm taking that to mean that best friend KNOWS he saw her while he was there.  I can't handle all this. I seriously can't. How stupid does he think I am?


----------



## LonelyNLost

And he's not going to give me anything in writing, because he's so angry. He'd also probably see it as me agreeing to the divorce, which would make it so much easier and ease his mind.


----------



## Jellybeans

How is finding out the truth if it is in fact an affair...stirring things up more than it already is if it's an affair? The truth is paramount if it's an affair. It means he's openly deceiving you.

But either way, you have to deal with the cards that are dealt. 

And well yeah...all waywards think that once they cheat and spring a divorce on you, you will agree to everything and be over it just like they are and the divorce will go swimmingly and they will be happy and you will be happy and no heartache will be involved. 

That is why it's called THE FOG. Because it's not Reality.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> How is finding out the truth if it is in fact an affair...stirring things up more than it already is if it's an affair? The truth is paramount if it's an affair. It means he's openly deceiving you.
> 
> But either way, you have to deal with the cards that are dealt.
> 
> And well yeah...all waywards think that once they cheat and spring a divorce on you, you will agree to everything and be over it just like they are and the divorce will go swimmingly and they will be happy and you will be happy and no heartache will be involved.
> 
> That is why it's called THE FOG. Because it's not Reality.


I get that. He's openly deceiving me whether or not it is an affair. I think that's why he was so mad. He says that she now knows the situation and what I think they are, and he had kept her out of it and she knew nothing. But in reality, I think I stirred up their little happy world. Maybe pissed her off. Idk. 

How do you get them out of the fog? If I found out and exposed, he wouldn't apologize. Who knows what he'd do. He knows he's hurt me before over an EA, I bet he is feeling like the lowest form of scum on the planet right now. Or maybe not. Because she makes him feel good. I've never directly communicated with her. I'm feeling like I need to do nothing. But then I'm also feeling like I need to be aggressive and figure out the truth. Because then I'm going after her. And him. He doesn't want me to tell him "I told you so". Because I was wary of this from the beginning. Last time around, I had no suspicions. I was just blindsided.


----------



## LonelyNLost

I feel like I need to type up a list of all the red flags. Then I can share that with him. He doesn't want to here it. He's pretty far deep into the fog.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I feel like I need to type up a list of all the red flags. Then I can share that with him. He doesn't want to here it. He's pretty far deep into the fog.


You could put photo of him and her in compromising position in front of his eyes and he would still blame you. Everyone knows - him included that you have full right to be suspicious and upset. Even if he's innocent (he still won't delete her off fb), he doesn't care to prove it to you. If he was accusing you and you have nothing to hide, wouldn't you offer up everything to show how clean you are? I would unless spouse was unreasonable jealous shrew which you're not. You are right. Is he cheating? EA? Not sure but he is being inappropriate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> You could put photo of him and her in compromising position in front of his eyes and he would still blame you. Everyone knows - him included that you have full right to be suspicious and upset. Even if he's innocent (he still won't delete her off fb), he doesn't care to prove it to you. If he was accusing you and you have nothing to hide, wouldn't you offer up everything to show how clean you are? I would unless spouse was unreasonable jealous shrew which you're not. You are right. Is he cheating? EA? Not sure but he is being inappropriate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfortunately, you are 100% right.  I've said all of this to friends. And him. His 5 days away? NO ONE knew about it but me. And probably her. I bet she was here. This is probably a PA as well given their past. And his weirdness. 

His friend replied and he says things keep coming up that I'm telling him that he's never heard before because he just knows H's side of things. It's sickening. At least he's on my side, I guess. I feel like I need to know. She's a hairdresser, I was thinking of some angle I could pull to see if she was working those 5 days when H went to "find himself". 

I really want to meet with his mom. I just need her to know what's going on. I really don't think she has a clue. And I've never communicated anything directly to this OW. I want to get my claws into her stbx, but he seemed disinterested and oblivious. But then he did go to her, so I don't know.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> How do you get them out of the fog?.


You don't. You can't make anyone anything. 

When was his first EA? Seems like he's emotionally promiscuous.



LonelyNLost said:


> I feel like I need to type up a list of all the red flags. Then I can share that with him. He doesn't want to here it. He's pretty far deep into the fog.


DON'T DO THIS. 
He doesn't care right now and he's not owning anything. He won't. 
If you want to write the list, do so but only share it here.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> You don't. You can't make anyone anything.
> 
> When was his first EA? Seems like he's emotionally promiscuous.
> 
> 
> 
> DON'T DO THIS.
> He doesn't care right now and he's not owning anything. He won't.
> If you want to write the list, do so but only share it here.



It was 4 years ago, we had been married for 6 years, my son was 4, and I started my job as a teacher which was way more involved than any other job I'd ever had. He rode a motorcycle, and this chick at work invited him to ride with her and some other guys. I allowed it because he said "guys from work". They texted and phone called and messaged on Myspace and yahoo together. I got the whole conversation about how we had grown apart, things weren't okay, don't know how to get out of this. Then the next morning he goes on a bike ride. I get into his myspace, which password had been changed, and then BAM in the trash were some promiscuous messages back and forth. Hard to believe when he says they never went PA because "we were never alone and I wouldn't put myself in that position." He didn't cut contact right away and left me in limbo for over a week. Finally called my mom of all people and told her, and my mom talked some sense into him. We counseled and seemingly moved forward, had another kid. 

This one is different I think. I don't think he sought her out because he missed her, but like his friend said, he has this weird fascination with his high school days. I just think that things led to another and he tried to fight it, but couldn't. Then in December, it had probably been going on for 6 weeks when he recommitted to me and we got so much better. But was it fake? Or did he just fall back into her trap? He went to Vegas and came back and it fell apart. Well, now I know why. Things just got worse and worse as we fought about it all. So many red flags. I'll work on them tonight.


----------



## Jellybeans

If he sent sexually loaded emails to the first EA person then ti's very possible it was a PA. If it wasn't, then it was still inappropriate and he was looking to do it. 

He seems to have a problem with committment being that from everything you're saying it sounds like he'se involved with his HS friend. Can you write out the red flags for us?

In the end, it comes down to this: do you want to be with someone who could cheat on you 4 yrs ago and then walk out on you and your kids AGAIN? 

Do you want to be with someone who "doesn't know" whether they want to be with you?


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I But then I'm also feeling like I need to be aggressive and figure out the truth. *Because then I'm going after her. And him*. He doesn't want me to tell him "I told you so".


Again, respectfully, do you not see the personality issue that I see - and most likely HE sees - in you?

Fighting AN AFFAIR is a good thing. 

Fighting people does only one thing - make them want to stay away from you.

There was a lady at MB who had a similarly...expectant...personality. All she ever complained about was her husband. All.the.time. EVERYTHING was ALWAYS his fault. He ignored her. He stayed late at work. He didn't help. He didn't talk. He didn't meet her needs. On and on and on. After we had spent at least an entire year trying to get her to at least consider that maybe SHE was pushing him away, we had gotten nowhere. She was so used to being a strong person that she was unwilling to try to learn to control her mouth, her temper, and her opinion. I warned her many times that he was going to leave her if she didn't. And he did.

Now, I'm not saying that you are anywhere near this lady's problems. But you DO show a lot of 'expectance' for what you deserve, what he owes, how he should pay...

All I'm trying to say is you CANNOT control another human being (except a child, for a few years). All you can do is BE the one thing that makes that person happy. So that they CHOOSE to be with you. Note I'm not saying be a doormat; I AM saying pay attention to how your spouse feels, acts, and speaks. Ignore all that at your own risk. Because if you don't, your spouse will likely leave you.

As you have seen.

Mind, I'm NOT saying his cheating is your fault. That's on him. I AM saying that, at this point, you have one chance - SHOW him that you've learned enough humility to recognize that he wasn't happy with you, and that you are now doing your own homework to fix those things about yourself. So that if he's not cheating, or if the affair ends, and he turns around and takes a look at you again, he doesn't see the same person who made him unhappy to begin with. And MAYBE will decide to come back, if he sees a difference.

Which is, after all, all you can really do.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I really want to meet with his mom. I just need her to know what's going on. I really don't think she has a clue.


By all means, tell his mom what's going on.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> If he sent sexually loaded emails to the first EA person then ti's very possible it was a PA. If it wasn't, then it was still inappropriate and he was looking to do it.
> 
> He seems to have a problem with committment being that from everything you're saying it sounds like he'se involved with his HS friend. Can you write out the red flags for us?
> 
> In the end, it comes down to this: do you want to be with someone who could cheat on you 4 yrs ago and then walk out on you and your kids AGAIN?
> 
> Do you want to be with someone who "doesn't know" whether they want to be with you?


Yeah, they were sexually loaded. He started by saying he was stressed and asking if she knew any relief for that and she replied, "yeah, I'm drunk, wet, and horny, how's that for a few" and then he offered to do some things to her, but "hopefully sooner rather than later." Makes me sick to even relive that. There were also some comments about the motorcycles and sitting on it and things where she said she already had and he replied "I'm talking about the bike, silly."  Makes me want to puke. 

I will write down the red flags soon. As I sit here more and more things are clicking in my head. I feel like an idiot. 

He didn't leave last time, he called my mom and she talked him out of it. He would never admit that he considered leaving. But he did. Here I thought he was still beating himself up over it all, but I guess not. 

And in the fog, do they mean that they don't know if they want to be with us or is the fog talking?


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Again, respectfully, do you not see the personality issue that I see - and most likely HE sees - in you?
> 
> No. Because I'm not that person. This is anger talking and I'm not talking physical pain or emotional torture. I'm talking speaking my mind and standing up for myself. I've been patient for way too long.
> 
> Fighting AN AFFAIR is a good thing.
> 
> Fighting people does only one thing - make them want to stay away from you.
> 
> There was a lady at MB who had a similarly...expectant...personality. All she ever complained about was her husband. All.the.time. EVERYTHING was ALWAYS his fault. He ignored her. He stayed late at work. He didn't help. He didn't talk. He didn't meet her needs. On and on and on. After we had spent at least an entire year trying to get her to at least consider that maybe SHE was pushing him away, we had gotten nowhere. She was so used to being a strong person that she was unwilling to try to learn to control her mouth, her temper, and her opinion. I warned her many times that he was going to leave her if she didn't. And he did.
> 
> Um, no, that's not at all how I am. In this situation, that's been going on since November, yes I may have shared my feelings and emotions because we were trying to communicate more. In January, he even asked me to tell him my needs so he could make me happy. Then he turned it around on me. I wasn't asking much. I wanted him to hold my hand and sit next to me. I'm not demanding or "expectant" at all. If you knew me, you'd be appalled at the accusations you've made at me. I've been told by everyone that we know how strong I am and how surprised they are that I have had so much self-control because they themselves would have done a lot more.
> 
> Now, I'm not saying that you are anywhere near this lady's problems. But you DO show a lot of 'expectance' for what you deserve, what he owes, how he should pay...
> 
> All I'm trying to say is you CANNOT control another human being (except a child, for a few years). All you can do is BE the one thing that makes that person happy. So that they CHOOSE to be with you. Note I'm not saying be a doormat; I AM saying pay attention to how your spouse feels, acts, and speaks. Ignore all that at your own risk. Because if you don't, your spouse will likely leave you.
> 
> Yeah, that's been me for 10+ years. It's been all about him and how he feels and what he wants. Not me. He works a lot so I don't see him much. But we are both very laid back and don't argue or bicker or nag each other at all. It's been an almost too easy marriage, and complacency kicked in. He's not real good at communicating and he's weak.
> 
> As you have seen.
> 
> Mind, I'm NOT saying his cheating is your fault. That's on him. I AM saying that, at this point, you have one chance - SHOW him that you've learned enough humility to recognize that he wasn't happy with you, and that you are now doing your own homework to fix those things about yourself. So that if he's not cheating, or if the affair ends, and he turns around and takes a look at you again, he doesn't see the same person who made him unhappy to begin with. And MAYBE will decide to come back, if he sees a difference.
> 
> 
> I think we had a mutual feeling about the disconnect. This chick just preyed upon him and he got caught. And this has been guilt. I know he loves me and is torn about this, but this fog has buried him deep. He's even using his past EA as an excuse. I think that's why he's so depressed, because he looks at me and I am a great person. I am this person that he's shared so much with and he cared so much about. But right now, she's giving him all this attention and feeding his fixation with his past. I can't offer him his high school days or that nostalgia. She's his first love.
> 
> Which is, after all, all you can really do.


----------



## DelinquentGurl

turnera said:


> Again, respectfully, do you not see the personality issue that I see - and most likely HE sees - in you?
> 
> Fighting AN AFFAIR is a good thing.
> 
> Fighting people does only one thing - make them want to stay away from you.
> 
> There was a lady at MB who had a similarly...expectant...personality. All she ever complained about was her husband. All.the.time. EVERYTHING was ALWAYS his fault. He ignored her. He stayed late at work. He didn't help. He didn't talk. He didn't meet her needs. On and on and on. After we had spent at least an entire year trying to get her to at least consider that maybe SHE was pushing him away, we had gotten nowhere. She was so used to being a strong person that she was unwilling to try to learn to control her mouth, her temper, and her opinion. I warned her many times that he was going to leave her if she didn't. And he did.
> 
> Now, I'm not saying that you are anywhere near this lady's problems. But you DO show a lot of 'expectance' for what you deserve, what he owes, how he should pay...
> 
> All I'm trying to say is you CANNOT control another human being (except a child, for a few years). All you can do is BE the one thing that makes that person happy. So that they CHOOSE to be with you. Note I'm not saying be a doormat; I AM saying pay attention to how your spouse feels, acts, and speaks. Ignore all that at your own risk. Because if you don't, your spouse will likely leave you.
> 
> As you have seen.
> 
> Mind, I'm NOT saying his cheating is your fault. That's on him. I AM saying that, at this point, you have one chance - SHOW him that you've learned enough humility to recognize that he wasn't happy with you, and that you are now doing your own homework to fix those things about yourself. So that if he's not cheating, or if the affair ends, and he turns around and takes a look at you again, he doesn't see the same person who made him unhappy to begin with. And MAYBE will decide to come back, if he sees a difference.
> 
> Which is, after all, all you can really do.


What a great post!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

DelinquentGurl said:


> What a great post!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad you agree, I think it's BS. I don't want someone who would treat me like this. And I am not some "strong, expectant" person. Don't judge until you've walking in another person's shoes. Yes, I've had a lot of expectations since this started. They are:

1. That my needs are put before some [email protected] ex girlfriends.

2. Honesty and the 100% truth when he communicates with me.

3. Respect.

4. Openness. 



NOT a lot to expect at all. And all I got were:

1. Lies.

2. Excuses.

3. Fog babble.

4. More lies.

5. Disrespect.

6. Constant showing that I was not the priority.


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## LonelyNLost

My H is such a jerk. Doesn't talk to me, can't text me. Now he's emailing me I guess. Sent this email to my regular email last night, I didn't answer so he sent one to my work email. REALLY? Originally, even as of Monday the 21st, he was saying he didn't want to take daughter overnight because he wanted her to have a sense of normalcy. But, obviously we are in for the long term. 

Keep in mind, that at the end of his text message blowup on Tuesday, I said, "When you cool down, we need to discuss some things" and he said, "it will be a long while before I cool off." Well, I was talking about kids and finances. I want to be rude, but I just don't know what's best. He had them Thursday evening. And he had them last Sunday all day. 

_Hey, I am missing the kids and was wondering if I could have them 
Sunday overnight and take T to school and K to daycare Monday. 
Let me know if this is something that we can work out. I know that you 
would miss them but I would like to have some time with them too._


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> My H is such a jerk. Doesn't talk to me, can't text me. Now he's emailing me I guess. Sent this email to my regular email last night, I didn't answer so he sent one to my work email. REALLY? Originally, even as of Monday the 21st, he was saying he didn't want to take daughter overnight because he wanted her to have a sense of normalcy. But, obviously we are in for the long term.
> 
> Keep in mind, that at the end of his text message blowup on Tuesday, I said, "When you cool down, we need to discuss some things" and he said, "it will be a long while before I cool off." Well, I was talking about kids and finances. I want to be rude, but I just don't know what's best. He had them Thursday evening. And he had them last Sunday all day.
> 
> _Hey, I am missing the kids and was wondering if I could have them
> Sunday overnight and take T to school and K to daycare Monday.
> Let me know if this is something that we can work out. I know that you
> would miss them but I would like to have some time with them too._


If you have true plans made I'd say no. If you have nothing going on I'd consider it. But out of respect to honoring both your time with the kids I would set a schedule up for the future. He seems to be moving on and as much as it hurts the kids have a right to see him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

^ I agree. It would do you good to get something in writing regarding time with the children. That way you have a set schedule.


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## LonelyNLost

This is what I responded. 

_We have plans tomorrow, and given the choice they chose to stay with me. In regards to the other night, I did say to you that we needed to discuss some things once you cooled down. The kids are one of those things. You may have them every Thursday, even overnight if you wish. But you will only have them every other Sunday, as per our original agreement. Contact me if you wish to see them and we can work something out._

And this is what I got back. 

_OK. We do need to discuss the kids. I will go over some of the things 
that the attorney told me when we have an opportunity to speak. I have 
printed up some paperwork that I will let you see and we will see if we 
can come to an agreement on. I am trying to get in contact with a 
mediator and waiting on a call back.
_

I am having an anxiety attack now.


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## Jellybeans

Sorry Lonely.

You need to get practical and fast. If he's gotten attorneys and is contacting a mediator, you need to start protecting yourself. Have you talked to an attorney yet?

Mediation is definitely less expensive but remember, if you aren't down with that then you don't have to agree w/ it. 

In the future, do not mention "once you get cooled down...y ou wil lonly have them."

Try to keep your emotions out of it completely hard as it is.


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## Babyheart

Get legal advice ASAP. He only hit you with this now (Sat evening) as he knows you can't do anything until Monday morning. What a spineless piece of work he is. 

And yes, keep all communication as polite and cool as possible. You do not want him twisting it saying you are keeping the kids from him.


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> Sorry Lonely.
> 
> You need to get practical and fast. If he's gotten attorneys and is contacting a mediator, you need to start protecting yourself. Have you talked to an attorney yet?
> 
> Mediation is definitely less expensive but remember, if you aren't down with that then you don't have to agree w/ it.
> 
> In the future, do not mention "once you get cooled down...y ou wil lonly have them."
> 
> Try to keep your emotions out of it completely hard as it is.


And avoid the phrase, 'the kids choose'. At 8 and 2 they don't get to choose, they will do what you tell them. If you had plans it's legit you should say no. I'm so sorry, I know you don't want this!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, I'm still trying to process the fact that my husband asked for a DIVORCE by EMAIL?!?!?!??!


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## Babyheart

He will get his some day - that karma bus we are taking to the bahamas will run his sorry a$$ right over!


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## golfergirl

Babyheart said:


> He will get his some day - that karma bus we are taking to the bahamas will run his sorry a$$ right over!


What more would you expect from this p!sshead? My 3 year old has more guts than this spineless crap. He's a loser. Get MAD! He might even be toying with you to back you off so he can have his email - fb - twice a year visit flirtation with some ho-bag. He's carrying on his love affair via text and email why shouldn't he ask for divorce the same way. He's pathetic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Sorry Lonely.
> 
> You need to get practical and fast. If he's gotten attorneys and is contacting a mediator, you need to start protecting yourself. Have you talked to an attorney yet?
> 
> Mediation is definitely less expensive but remember, if you aren't down with that then you don't have to agree w/ it.
> 
> In the future, do not mention "once you get cooled down...y ou wil lonly have them."
> 
> Try to keep your emotions out of it completely hard as it is.


This is devastating.  No lawyer yet. I didn't say he needed to cool down to have them. I just the other day when he was so mad that we needed to discuss some things when he cooled down. 

I don't think he's bluffing, he definitely saw a lawyer. But why didn't he talk to me the same day? It was probably Thursday and he even dropped the kids off here. I know I have to agree to a mediator in order for us to go that route, and well, I'm not. I think he needs to slow this all down and really think about it. 

He couldn't have hired a lawyer, just consulted. And I guess the paperwork is probably like things that have to be figured out. Not sure if he filed. But this is all beyond me. He's divorcing me because I tried to call his ex gf and I sent a message to this chick's husband on facebook? Really? That switches someone from wanting to try to reconnect to wanting to divorce? Amazing.


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> What more would you expect from this p!sshead? My 3 year old has more guts than this spineless crap. He's a loser. Get MAD! He might even be toying with you to back you off so he can have his email - fb - twice a year visit flirtation with some ho-bag. He's carrying on his love affair via text and email why shouldn't he ask for divorce the same way. He's pathetic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are absolutely correct. I don't think he's toying with me, though. I only responded to texts/emails that were directly about the kids. Basically that first email. There is nothing to say to the others. He wanted me to tell him I'd sit down with him? I don't have to. He can't make me do anything. He hasn't cooperated with me, so why should I cooperate with him? He even sent me 3 texts and tried to call twice last night and I didn't answer anything at all. I know that irked him. The last text said, "So, ur obviously not going to answer me. Its all good. I am working on the inevitable. At some point we will have to have some sort of communication." What a bully. 

I want him to talk to my face. Is that so hard to ask? He's a piece of work.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> You are absolutely correct. I don't think he's toying with me, though. I only responded to texts/emails that were directly about the kids. Basically that first email. There is nothing to say to the others. He wanted me to tell him I'd sit down with him? I don't have to. He can't make me do anything. He hasn't cooperated with me, so why should I cooperate with him? He even sent me 3 texts and tried to call twice last night and I didn't answer anything at all. I know that irked him. The last text said, "So, ur obviously not going to answer me. Its all good. I am working on the inevitable. At some point we will have to have some sort of communication." What a bully.
> 
> I want him to talk to my face. Is that so hard to ask? He's a piece of work.


Do you still think he's depressed? Or pissed at you for pushing the envelope and making it difficult to have his cake and eat it too? It sounds like he's past the guilt stage and into punishing mode.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BluePink

People always talk about Karma...even I have...but I've never seen it happen to anyone, especially those who deserve it. Why is that?


----------



## LonelyNLost

I think he probably is depressed, but a big part of the depression was the guilt over what he was doing to his family. Now, he has let anger take over the guilt, because it's easier to feel. So he walks around angry, makes this decision to divorce me, is at peace with that, so he can prance around self-entitled now.

I sent a long email to his mom and poured my heart out. Said everything I'd want to say to him. Told her about the EA. He is not telling her anything. I also attached the letter I gave to him last weekend. Not sure if she'll read it. I don't care if she shares it with him. But I got a lot off my chest and it helped me. 

Oh, and I've seen karma in action. It's the reason relationships started by cheating never work out.


----------



## Jellybeans

I know you want to vent but why did you email his mother what you wanted to say to him and why did you send her the letter you wrote him?

If ge wants a divorce, it's going to happen. It looks like it's heading in that direction. You will have to accept this if it's what he chooses. Let go. 

Holding onto someone who doesn't want to be held isn't the answer.


----------



## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> I know you want to vent but why did you email his mother what you wanted to say to him and why did you send her the letter you wrote him?
> 
> If ge wants a divorce, it's going to happen. It looks like it's heading in that direction. You will have to accept this if it's what he chooses. Let go.
> 
> Holding onto someone who doesn't want to be held isn't the answer.


You do give him power by letting him know you're still an option. By caring in any way even through anger, you are still being his option. If you can tell it all to his mom why can't you tell him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I know you want to vent but why did you email his mother what you wanted to say to him and why did you send her the letter you wrote him?
> 
> If ge wants a divorce, it's going to happen. It looks like it's heading in that direction. You will have to accept this if it's what he chooses. Let go.
> 
> Holding onto someone who doesn't want to be held isn't the answer.


I get that, I do. But I really don't think he wants to divorce. I think that right now it's the anger coming out. I think a lot of it is that he feels trapped in our marriage, even though he might not even realize that's how he feels. I need to almost tell him that I will not discuss things with him while he is so bitter and disrespectful, and acknowledge that we've both made mistakes, and tell him that I believe deep down he wants our marriage to work and he's lost at how. But that I have given him a lot of time to think about what he wants and I would appreciate the courtesy of just cooling off before rushing forward. Tell him that I have been trying to keep him in our marriage and I can't keep someone who doesn't want to be kept, so I'm letting go and stepping back. Give it a certain amount of time and we can discuss. 

I guess I want to give him enough time to also hang himself, so to speak, when it comes to whatever is going on with his EA. I didn't really vent so much in anger to his mom, I just let her know what was really going on and how I felt. How I was very hurt that just a month ago he was talking about trying to reconnect, and then now emailing me that he wants a divorce in not so many words. 




golfergirl said:


> You do give him power by letting him know you're still an option. By caring in any way even through anger, you are still being his option. If you can tell it all to his mom why can't you tell him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I haven't really let him know I'm here waiting. During the text war on Tuesday, I did ask why my actions were so unforgivable and why I didn't deserve to be forgiven after I forgave him for things he's done in the past. But I didn't grovel. I guess the letter did, but I think right now he doesn't know if I'm cowering in fear and hurt, or if I'm angry and standing strong. I don't know if his mom will even share my email, I don't really care if she does. And it was more to let her know what is going on with him and her. I can't tell him anything because right now he wouldn't "hear" anything I had to say.


----------



## Jellybeans

Lonely, the entire letter you wrote to him was groveling. 



LonelyNLost said:


> I get that, I do. But I really don't think he wants to divorce. I think a lot of it is that he feels trapped in our marriage, even though* he might not even realize that's how he feels. * I need to almost tell him that I will not discuss things with him while he is so bitter and disrespectful, and acknowledge that we've both made mistakes, and tell him that* I believe deep down he wants our marriage to work and he's lost at how.* But that I have given him a lot of time to think about what he wants and *I would appreciate the courtesy of just cooling off before rushing forward.* Tell him that I have been trying to keep him in our marriage and I can't keep someone who doesn't want to be kept, *so I'm letting go and stepping back. Give it a certain amount of time and we can discuss. *I guess* I want to give him enough time to also hang himself,* so to speak, when it comes to whatever is going on with his EA.


You can't control him or dictate what he is thinking/feeling. His feelings and choices are his own. So while you may think "he doesn't know what he thinks" the reality is that his truth is whatever it is, even if you don't agree with it.

You can't let go *and* give someone time to think stuff over and cool down at the same time. It doesn't work that way. Letting go is letting go completely.

We would ALL appreciate the courtesy of someone not screwing us over but again, it doesn't work that way. 

As for giving him time to hang himself--that's not the way it works. You are still an option. He knows that. The way you let him hang himself is by giving him exactly what he wants. So if he wants out, you open the door for him and let him go. Only then can he hang himself. 

You are in for a long and hurtful road if you try to fight him on what he wants/thinks/decides. You can't make him anything. The sooner you realize this and make it real - the better for you.



golfergirl said:


> You do give him power by letting him know you're still an option. By caring in any way even through anger, you are still being his option. If you can tell it all to his mom why can't you tell him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


100% correct.


----------



## LonelyNLost

This is the letter. Kind of a vent. Kind of not. I don't know. Um, okay just read it and I guess I probably shouldn't have sent it. It's full of emotion and I sound needy and desperate and it will probably make her feel bad. None of this is her fault, and I can't expect her to do anything or try to fix it. Don't you wish you could undo things? Should I send her a message apologizing and telling her I was really emotional this morning?


_Hi. I guess you aren't going to respond to me, so I will just say this and hope you read it. *** is hell bent on divorcing me for whatever reason. I hardly think that calling a girl that's come between you and your husband, and letting it ring twice, or messaging her ex husband to ask if he knows anything, are grounds for divorce, but apparently when you get that angry, it is. But the fact that I gave that man 14 years of my life, and he tells me by EMAIL that he wants a divorce is beyond disgusting. I know my rights, too, and I'm not going to continue to fall into his traps. This marriage is not irreconcilable. He has just been pushed the other way. 

I doubt you know any of the details or really what's going on. And it's understanding that you don't want to. But *** is not being faithful to me. He is letting someone else into his life and they have spoken into his ear so much he believes it. He's rewritten the past. He thinks we grew apart, I think we were just fine in September when we went to Gaylord for my birthday. We had a blast and were plenty connected in August when we went to Siesta Key. But this all started mid-October and by the time I caught it, he was already deep in. He's lied to me about many things in regards to her, and continues to do so. I also know for a fact that he spent time with her when he went to Vegas and it looks pretty probable that she was with him when he disappeared for 5 days. I'm crushed, of course, by this. He will not own up to any of it, and does a pretty good job convincing me and others that their friendship is innocent.

The fact that he won't do anything to prove otherwise is disturbing. The fact that he's thrown our marriage away is sickening. He's treating me like crap. He's making me feel like dirt. I refuse to answer his tirades yesterday, where he threatens me that I have to talk to him because he's "working on the inevitable." Why is he being so heartless? Does he not owe me face to face communication? What have I done or said or been that is so horrible? I think I'm going to attach the letter I gave him that meant nothing so you can see what I've said to him. I've acknowledged my faults and how I feel about ****** and how this situation disturbs me even if it isn't an emotional affair with her. It's beyond me that he responds by deleting me off facebook and filing for divorce. 

He's probably got his story concocted. He's probably saying we just grew apart. But that isn't the truth. I don't know what will come of their relationship, or when *** will ever open up to those he's shut out. I've fought tooth and nail to try to save our marriage and he's done nothing but rebel. If he didn't love me anymore and doesn't think I can make him happy, he should have just told me from the beginning. But the internal struggle is over... whether he should keep his commitment to his family (and he knows I'm a good woman) or if he should go have fun and flings with other people. Me angering him only tipped the scales. Not sure why he's on such a fast track, but I'm fighting for my family. Our kids don't need to go through this. ***** is holding me each day while I cry. I can't hide it. This is the worst thing ever. ***** has cried to me that he doesn't want us to get divorced.

I don't know if it can be fixed. I don't know if *** will ever own up. I just know that this man that we see now is not the man I married. And if he's capable of doing this to me twice, I'm not sure I want to be married to him. He's in a "lie till I die" stage right now. I really won't be surprised if he goes to Vegas or she comes here for his birthday. But I'm willing to give him a chance to figure his crap out. I'm willing to listen and have him come clean. He at least owes me an apology for treating me this way. I'd be willing to do marriage counseling and see what all of this is about. If it's just a trust issue and there's nothing going on, something is seriously broke that he's let it get this far. But people can come back from this. ***** and ******** did. They were in a pretty bad place. And now they are happy. You guys went through hell and came back. Why doesn't he want to try?

Maybe I sound paranoid or like I've made this all up. Maybe he makes me sound like a crazy person. But there are too many red flags to ignore. Too many coincidences. And if like he says, that she now knows what I think the situation is based on my message to her ex, then if she were any kind of woman she would back down. But that's not what's happened. He calls her every night around midnight. I'm in disbelief and it all makes me sick. 

*** really needs to take a cooling off period and think about the choices he's making. He's thrown my life upside down and hurt me deeper than any pain I've ever felt. I love him with all my heart and he's thrown me away. He's emotionally manipulated me beyond repair. But for whatever reason, I want him to tell me the truth and hear why. He is weak and fell for temptation. I understand that. But where is his regard for me and my feelings? He says he doesn't hate me but all I have to go on in his actions. I'm fighting to function each day. I have had so many anxiety attacks I have an appt with a doctor to get meds. I can't eat, and I can't sleep. All the while he's prancing around all happy because he's made a decision for himself. And me. And the kids. I just can't kick the feeling that one day he'll realize what he's done. And he'll look back with regret. And I'll have moved on.

I'm not a bad person and I don't deserve this. *** and I had a good marriage, not the one he paints now. He was my best friend, and we enjoyed each other's company. This has just happened to him. It hurts to the core. I don't know how to dig myself out of this. Even in his attack on me by text on Tuesday I kept my cool. I think it's bothering him not to know what my mental state is. It really hurt me, like a knife to the heart, to see that he wasn't wearing his wedding ring. How can one person be so against divorcing, and the other be so dead set for it. It's like he is trying to turn this all around on me now. He is saying I pushed him to this point. I just want bloody answers! 

So I apologize for anything I've said to offend you. I guess now that he's all about lawyers and stuff you probably won't ever talk to me. I have no clue how he's going to pay for this, since we don't have a pot to piss in. He is squandering money away on gas and food and whatever else like crazy. He took off and hasn't bothered to look at bills or talk finances with me. I can't even pay the mortgage because it's so close that it would probably bounce before it cleared because he'd be spending money. I'm really close to just not paying anything and just gearing up for a new life. I don't think either way that I'd be able to afford the house. I am not only losing my husband & my family, but my life.

I guess I'm just gobsmacked by it all. How a month ago he was telling me he wanted to stay with you guys to relieve the tension and work on cooling off "us" so we could reconnect. Now I question whether he ever had those intentions. I think he was gone before he left.  I'm not sure how a month long trial separation turns to divorce, and I don't know if I'll ever know. I lost his internal struggle, and she won. Even if it isn't to be with her, she's influenced him enough to do this to his family. 

And the thing that bothers me the most is how shut out everyone is. He's told NO ONE everything. No one. Except maybe her. He's completely shut ***** out and he doesn't take sides. They came over here out of concern and made me spill. I told them I didn't want them to feel in the middle, that I just wanted someone who was pro "us" to know what was going on. They felt bad for me, and agreed that something was up with ***. ***** wasn't going to hide the fact that he talked to me. He is genuinely concerned for ***. But all he gets from *** is "I'm an @sshole, I'm the bad guy." Won't even talk to him. I can't say much else about who I've talked to, but it doesn't look good. And now, I have nothing to lose, so I might as well get ahold of ******* and give her a piece of my mind. I will not go down without a fight. I'm fighting for my kids and MY family.

So thanks for reading this if you've gotten this far. Thanks for listening as long as you did. I hope you don't think poorly of me. I don't expect any loyalty. I know he's your son and you'd protect him to the end. I just wanted you to know that I'm absolutely mystified by all of this. I want my marriage to work. I want the *** I married, the *** I had 6 months ago. I'm not asking you for anything. I know where your loyalties lie. I just hope for some understanding of the situation, and that you know more than you know now.

I've given him this 4-5 months to figure things out and at least expect him to give our marriage some sort of chance. But he's gone. He's left, and in his mind he's already gone through with this. I just hope that he would give me some time to process and to think about this huge step he's taking. We've spent 14 years together, and he's willing to throw it away in a matter of months. I just hope that you'll talk to him and make him take some time with this decision. Because I'm not going to just go along with what he wants right now. It's my turn to say, "I don't know. I can't handle this. I'm in emotional turmoil. I'm spent." Just like he's fed me for months. He's avoided talk with me about anything, and roped me into fights. I need to take my time and figure out what I want to say to him and how I can take care of myself and my kids. It's my turn to be selfish, I've given everything to him. And if he's trying to convince me that he doesn't deserve me, he's doing a good job. But I'm still committed to my marriage because I meant my vows when I stood in front of God, our family, and our friends. I meant them forever. 

Somehow I'll get through this, no matter what. But damn it, I don't want this to happen. I guess I take solace in knowing that I'll come out of this better off, either way. I can't say the same for him. I can't live with regrets. He can continue to live in his youth and have his nostalgia for high school and how she makes him feel good and admires him. But he will never know how much I loved him. But that is slowly draining. I love you guys and I thank you for the time we had together._


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Lonely, the entire letter you wrote to him was groveling.
> 
> You can't control him or dictate what he is thinking/feeling. His feelings and choices are his own. So while you may think "he doesn't know what he thinks" the reality is that his truth is whatever it is, even if you don't agree with it.
> 
> You can't let go *and* give someone time to think stuff over and cool down at the same time. It doesn't work that way. Letting go is letting go completely.
> 
> We would ALL appreciate the courtesy of someone not screwing us over but again, it doesn't work that way.
> 
> As for giving him time to hang himself--that's not the way it works. You are still an option. He knows that. The way you let someone hang themself is by giving them exactly waht they wantn--LET GO. Only then can he hang himself.
> 
> You are in for a long and hurtful road if you try to fight him on what he wants/thinks/decides. You can't make him anything. The sooner you realize this and make it real - the better for you.


I guess I'm confused.  My mind is a million and one places and I was reading "Love must be tough". Are you saying, meet with him and sign over and go through with the divorce without a fight? I understand I can't really know what he thinks or feels or wants, but I think a lot of what he's doing and saying right now is anger. I really don't believe he wants to get a divorce, he just feels that he's out of options and I've pushed him too far. He's not thinking rationally, as his best friend said. I think that's why he didn't say things to my face. 

So the question is, if I don't want this divorce, and I don't think he does either, but I want him to wonder whether I'm still an option, how do I move forward NOW? I just want the actual legal stuff to wait. I want him to cool down before taking that huge step. I don't want to meet with him and try to discuss anything when he's treating my disrespectfully.


----------



## Jellybeans

Yes you definitely should not have sent that letter.

You could write her back if you want apologizing for sending this and telling her you were venting and emotional but you realize you shouldn't have sent it.

Start asking yourself: why do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you?


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I guess I'm confused.  My mind is a million and one places and I was reading "Love must be tough". Are you saying, meet with him and sign over and go through with the divorce without a fight? I understand I can't really know what he thinks or feels or wants, but I think a lot of what he's doing and saying right now is anger.* I really don't believe he wants to get a divorce, he just feels *that he's out of options and I've pushed him too far. *He's not thinking rationally*, as his best friend said. * I think *that's why he didn't say things to my face.
> 
> So the question is, if I don't want this divorce, and *I don't think he does either*, but I want him to wonder whether I'm still an option, how do I move forward NOW? I just want the actual legal stuff to wait. I want him to cool down before taking that huge step. I don't want to meet with him and try to discuss anything when he's treating my disrespectfully.


What I am saying is that if he files for divorce, you don't GET an option of not divorcing. If you don't want a divorce and he does, there is nothing you can do but accept it and retrieve with dignity. Once again you are saying that his feelings aren't real and taking ownership of his decisions. That isn't for you to make. 

I understand you don't want him treating you disrespectfully, and he shouldn't do that. But if he wants out and files, you don't get a choice in that unfortunately. 

And you don't "make someone wonder" if you're an option. You tell them straight up you're not.

If you are reading _Love Must be Tough _ then you should know that it says in that book you must maintain your boundaries first and foremost and respect yourself enough to not put up with BS. It also says when someone wants out, you let them go.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Yes you definitely should not have sent that letter.
> 
> You could write her back if you want apologizing for sending this and telling her you were venting and emotional but you realize you shouldn't have sent it.
> 
> Start asking yourself: why do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you?


I am definitely considering that. I go back and forth, giving him the benefit of the doubt, trying to understand. And I'm not sure if things would work out if we gave them a shot and he reconsidered. But I just hate that this trainwreck is happening so fast! I don't even have time to process.

I sent a quick email apologizing. Told her I don't want to make her feel bad and I know she has no control over the situation.


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## Jellybeans

Next time wait 48 hours before you do anything like that again. By the end of the 48 hours you usually realize what you were going to do was not the best idea. I use this rule myself!


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> What I am saying is that if he files for divorce, you don't GET an option of not divorcing. If you don't want a divorce and he does, there is nothing you can do but accept it and retrieve with dignity. Once again you are saying that his feelings aren't real and taking ownership of his decisions. That isn't for you to make.
> 
> I understand you don't want him treating you disrespectfully, and he shouldn't do that. But if he wants out and files, you don't get a choice in that unfortunately.
> 
> And you don't "make someone wonder" if you're an option. You tell them straight up you're not.
> 
> If you are reading _Love Must be Tough _ then you should know that it says in that book you must maintain your boundaries first and foremost and respect yourself enough to not put up with BS. It also says when someone wants out, you let them go.


Yeah, I get that. But how do I state my boundaries in this situation? I've been trying to think about that all day. How do I let him know that I won't deal with him and sit down with him until he is treating me with respect? Without pissing him off more? I want to let him go, but I don't want him to go through with filing. I know I can't have everything I want, but that's what I'm attempting to juggle. Trying to figure out what to say. Because I think me not responding to those texts last night and the email have gotten him even more worked up.


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## DelinquentGurl

Lonely,

I don't mean any disrespect but you have 22 pages in this thread of posters telling you to quit worrying about HIM and start worrying about YOU.
Everything you respond is "Yes, but...." Or some other reason why you aren't taking any advice given to you.
You NEED to leave him be, for your own sanity.

It just seems like you want all this support but you don't want to listen to anything but yourself.
If you don't detach yourself you are never going to get over this. You are making this 100x's harder by not focusing on you and your kids.

Like I said, I mean no disrespect but what you are doing ISN'T WORKING.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

DelinquentGurl said:


> Lonely,
> 
> I don't mean any disrespect but you have 22 pages in this thread of posters telling you to quit worrying about HIM and start worrying about YOU.
> Everything you respond is "Yes, but...." Or some other reason why you aren't taking any advice given to you.
> You NEED to leave him be, for your own sanity.
> 
> It just seems like you want all this support but you don't want to listen to anything but yourself.
> If you don't detach yourself you are never going to get over this. You are making this 100x's harder by not focusing on you and your kids.
> 
> Like I said, I mean no disrespect but what you are doing ISN'T WORKING.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I AM worrying about me. I'm taking care of my kids and myself and moving on just fine. But he keeps knocking me down. And it's no secret I want my marriage to work. This is a process and a road I'm traveling. I am listening to the advice. Over and over again. But I can't take it all as it contradicts each other and ultimately the decision is mine to make as I'm the only one who completely knows my situation.

And I am letting him be, and he's sending me harassing texts being all nasty and disrespectful and angry. See what happens when I leave him alone?


----------



## Prodigal

LonelyNLost said:


> . But he keeps knocking me down.


NOT UNLESS YOU ALLOW HIM TO.




LonelyNLost said:


> I am listening to the advice. Over and over again. But I can't take it all as it contradicts each other


There aren't contradictions here. Various opinions, yes. But I don't see contradictory opinions. In fact, the moderator has posted extremely insightful advice. But you ignore it and keep going on and on about this. 



LonelyNLost said:


> and ultimately the decision is mine to make as I'm the only one who completely knows my situation.


I agree. So quit beating this TO DEATH. We don't know your situation. We are strangers in cyberspace. Yet you go on and on and on and on ... So if you KNOW your situation, and ultimately have to make your own decisions (which I respect) get on with it and do what you need to do.



LonelyNLost said:


> And I am letting him be, and he's sending me harassing texts being all nasty and disrespectful and angry. See what happens when I leave him alone?


So what????? Let him stand outside your front door and howl like a maniac. Call the cops if his does that, by the way. 

Oh, so he's bombarding you with "nasty and disrespectful" texts. Change you cell phone number. Block him. Block him from your emails. 

I've never heard so many justifications and excuses in my entire life from anyone to keep dancing this meaningless dance with an estranged spouse.


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## LonelyNLost

Seriously? I'm being attacked and told that I'm not listening to the advice here? I've over and over again appreciated advice and taken it as needed. I am in a situation where I'm trying to save my marriage. So don't fault me for not just "letting him go" because that seems like not fighting to me. It sounds like giving up. And I'm fighting for my kids, who are very upset over this all.

I'm here for support. Just like anyone else. What I give as explanations are not excuses and justifications. I don't appreciate you calling it a meaningless dance. My husband was telling me a week and a half ago he wanted this to work. Me coming for support and trying to make things work is not meaningless. 

If you don't like my choices, move along. You've offered nothing in the way of advice. I can't ignore him or change my number, we have children together.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Seriously? I'm being attacked and told that I'm not listening to the advice here? I've over and over again appreciated advice and taken it as needed. I am in a situation where I'm trying to save my marriage. So don't fault me for not just "letting him go" because that seems like not fighting to me. It sounds like giving up. And I'm fighting for my kids, who are very upset over this all.
> 
> I'm here for support. Just like anyone else. What I give as explanations are not excuses and justifications. I don't appreciate you calling it a meaningless dance. My husband was telling me a week and a half ago he wanted this to work. Me coming for support and trying to make things work is not meaningless.
> 
> If you don't like my choices, move along. You've offered nothing in the way of advice. I can't ignore him or change my number, we have children together.


I get what Tunera was trying to get to. Be someone hard to leave. Leave interactions positive and somewhat mysterious and him wanting more. While putting boundaries down in regards to OW have you openly told your H, EA, PA or friendship - whatever you call it is unacceptable to me. If you choose to continue on then I'm no longer your option. And leave it. Don't try and convince him what he's losing, show him. Don't try and gain sympathy (come back I can't eat - sleep and I'm a mess) ooh sign me up for that! Come back or not, I'm f*cking awesome with or without you. His feelings are his - right or wrong, temporary or permanent - he gets angry when you don't allow him that.
Say what you need regardless of his reaction. I used to work as 911 operator and a technique we learned to avoid escalating emotions is repetitive persistance. In calm monotone repeat same phrase over and over. Works well in emergency and in stopping a topic jumper from bombarding you with crap in an attack. We don't know everything. But remind us and yourself his redeeming qualities?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbroken007

Hello, I've read most of your pages and I must say, you seem like a devoted and committed person. With that being said, we can only control so much.
At some point we have to realize... if the same thing keeps happening, that we may never get a different outcome. I realize that your H is saying things to you that make you feel that things will change.......BUT HAVE YOU SEEN THAT CHANGE, I MEAN REALLY SEEN THAT CHANGE... 
We have to start realizing that as much as people love us and all the memories of what WAS... that we have to make choices for ourself. 
By no means am I trying to negate what you have witnessed or been through or feel at this very moment. That is all your emotions and no one can take that away from you.
I just continue to wish you guidance and strength by this site, as I have found (in less than a week) and hope that you continue to look for support by others WHO ARE going through similar things.


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## Crankshaw

LonelyNLost said:


> I can't ignore him or change my number, we have children together.


Actually, for the most part, you can, I can give you the email address of my ex W, ask her, she will tell you you can (if she bothers to reply that is


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## Neil

I am now absolutely convinced that this is not "depression".

if he was depressed, he would have absolutely no way of fighting the same thing about wanting to see the kids as he has with wanting to leave you.

Anything that is remotely angry or upsetting, DO NOT REPLY. (its as simple as that, do not rise to the bait, complete and total blameshifting on everything).

Its a must for "agreement" on access and stick to it. Its a must that you also get yourself a lawyer.

And finally, its a must, that you blank him out totally except for finance and kids (absolutely no contact about anything else).

And you do what ever you need to in order to put a smile on YOUR face and YOUR KIDS. and forget about that *******


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks, guys. I made the mistake of sending him a text saying that it hurts to be treated with complete disregard by someone who says they care about you. I kept my tone light, and man is he angry. About everything. I think he's just rushing to divorce because he feels like I've gotten to everyone and he's on trial. My only hope is that he cools off and really thinks about why I've done what I've done. His best friend is dumbfounded. Says he has no idea what to do or say. H says he doesn't trust anyone right now so he's not talking to anyone about it. I asked what he has to trust them with? Told him he's punishing me and the kids are suffering. He then went into pity mode saying the kids hate him and don't want to see him, and that's his fault because he made his bed. Kept saying things like "just trying to make this easy on them" and "hope we can do this amicably for the kids sake". I told him this wasn't where I wanted to convo to go so it was over.


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## AmImad

You only NEED to reply to messages about the kids, he wants that rise out of you, when you reply he knows you still care and he still 'has' you, does that make sense? In a way he can still control you, if you read through the novel of my thread my H acts in the same way.

If you want to save your marriage the only thing you can now do is show him what it's like NOT to have you, show him how divorce will really be.... 

If he STILL doesn't want to know, then there is nothing you can do Sweety, most of us are in the same boat, we don't have the answers we want, and it hurts like hell... and maybe we'll never get them.

You are beautiful, as are your children, you're doing great for the most part, its so difficult because you want it so much, I hear you.. I still want my H  Lord knows why! But he isn't interested, no matter what I say or do, will change that. So now I have to take a step back away from him and move forward in a different direction, do I like it? Heck no, and I scared?! Of course I am, but I am a great Mum, so I am going to do all I can to make sure my kids childhoods are the best I can give them. Arguing with their Dad isn't the best... I hope that when they talk to him when they've had their day out that he feels a pang of jealously that he's missing out.

*hugs tight* we love you Sweety, I hate that you're hurting xx


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks, babe. I guess it's just hard because he's MAD right now. And I hate that he's doing things with that anger. Without even discussing it. I'm taking today off to go see an attorney for advice. He seemed to calm a little while texting last night, but I just ended it before I started groveling. Wish I had a clue about what the real truth is. He seriously acts like there's no one else and I've stirred up all this trouble and come to this big conclusion that is unwarranted.


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## Neil

Oh, and another thing...

Keep a record of everything (if anything) he gives you financially. And make sure you can "back it up".

because if this goes the "whole hog", he really will get a kick in the pants when your attorney goes after "support payments".

It may take going this far to make him realise what he is walking out on.

And you need to make sure you are protected, and your kids.

You need to make this about YOU now. and put him out of your mind (I know its easier said than done)


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, guys. I made the mistake of sending him a text saying that it hurts to be treated with complete disregard by someone who says they care about you. I kept my tone light, and man is he angry. About everything. I think he's just rushing to divorce because he feels like I've gotten to everyone and he's on trial. My only hope is that he cools off and really thinks about why I've done what I've done. His best friend is dumbfounded. Says he has no idea what to do or say. H says he doesn't trust anyone right now so he's not talking to anyone about it. I asked what he has to trust them with? Told him he's punishing me and the kids are suffering. He then went into pity mode saying the kids hate him and don't want to see him, and that's his fault because he made his bed. Kept saying things like "just trying to make this easy on them" and "hope we can do this amicably for the kids sake". I told him this wasn't where I wanted to convo to go so it was over.


Stop sending texts about him hurting you or disregarding you. He KNOWS he's doing it and he doesn't care. He might even be doing it on purpose to further justify leaving you. What about the 48 hour rule jb offered you before sending feeling emails and texts.

I do have a few questions...

How can a text about him disregarding your wants and feelings be said in a light tone? It isn't, you know you're going to get crap for yet another relationship text message, so you're trying to throw us off. That conversation, no matter what the tone, cannot be 'light'.

What does he have to say or do so you will allow him his own feelings. He says he wants out but you think he's rushing it or he's backed in corner and pushing for it. What does he have to do to show you he has a right to his own feelings? I do see where he gets angry. If I tell my husband I think this or that and I get told, 'no you don't, you're just confused - depressed or angry' I feel totally discounted and eventually angry.

Another question - do you want to discuss things or don't you? When he is sharing true feelings why shut him down saying you are ending conversation because it's not going where you want it to. Reconcilliation conversations are hard and hurtful. You hear stuff you don't want to hear because face it - right or wrong, justified or not, you are doing something your partner doesn't like. So why shut him down when he's trying to open up to you?
I get you're trying to fight for your marriage. But you're doing everything wrong. Sorry but you are. You couldn't push him farther and harder away if you tried.
He has a right to his own feelings. Allow him that. Tell him yours but don't step all over his.
You have right to your needs. State them, be clear on them but you can't make him do them. MC, no contact and total transparency. You need that? Tell him. He can't do it - well either you decide you can live without or it's over. You can't force him.
But I think you've got some backing down to do before you get to that point. He wants to leave - he's told you that and you won't even allow him that. You want to be told in person but won't answer texts, phone calls or emails. You're avoiding him because you can't hear it.
I feel your pain and I know your intentions are good. But back off him. Give the man a shred of dignity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Stop sending texts about him hurting you or disregarding you. He KNOWS he's doing it and he doesn't care. He might even be doing it on purpose to further justify leaving you. What about the 48 hour rule jb offered you before sending feeling emails and texts.
> 
> I do have a few questions...
> 
> How can a text about him disregarding your wants and feelings be said in a light tone? It isn't, you know you're going to get crap for yet another relationship text message, so you're trying to throw us off. That conversation, no matter what the tone, cannot be 'light'.
> 
> What does he have to say or do so you will allow him his own feelings. He says he wants out but you think he's rushing it or he's backed in corner and pushing for it. What does he have to do to show you he has a right to his own feelings? I do see where he gets angry. If I tell my husband I think this or that and I get told, 'no you don't, you're just confused - depressed or angry' I feel totally discounted and eventually angry.
> 
> Another question - do you want to discuss things or don't you? When he is sharing true feelings why shut him down saying you are ending conversation because it's not going where you want it to. Reconcilliation conversations are hard and hurtful. You hear stuff you don't want to hear because face it - right or wrong, justified or not, you are doing something your partner doesn't like. So why shut him down when he's trying to open up to you?
> I get you're trying to fight for your marriage. But you're doing everything wrong. Sorry but you are. You couldn't push him farther and harder away if you tried.
> He has a right to his own feelings. Allow him that. Tell him yours but don't step all over his.
> You have right to your needs. State them, be clear on them but you can't make him do them. MC, no contact and total transparency. You need that? Tell him. He can't do it - well either you decide you can live without or it's over. You can't force him.
> But I think you've got some backing down to do before you get to that point. He wants to leave - he's told you that and you won't even allow him that. You want to be told in person but won't answer texts, phone calls or emails. You're avoiding him because you can't hear it.
> I feel your pain and I know your intentions are good. But back off him. Give the man a shred of dignity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I get that, I do. I'm trying to do nothing, but he is so angry and thinks I'm angry and resentful right back at him. He's mad at his friends, and he's shut everyone out. I meant that I kept it from being too intense on my half. I didn't attack or tell him he was wrong. I just told him I wasn't pissed at him, I wasn't ignoring him, I just wasn't going to talk to him when he was worked up and being disrespectful. I just told him I wasn't resentful towards him and I wish he didn't see me as out to drag him through the dirt. I apologized for him feeling the way he does and he kept saying I do resent and hate him even though I won't tell him at this time. I asked him to talk to our son, and told them that they love him and miss him and they don't hate him. 

I have told him he has a right to his own feelings. I don't tell him he's wrong. I am backing off, I just felt like I had to let him know I wasn't angry at him, I was just hurt, since he was so mad that I hadn't answered his email or texts (which were also hurtful.) But right now, how do I do nothing? Just let the mistakes bury us and end our marriage? 

He wasn't sharing real feelings, he was lashing out about everything he thinks I've done. It started to be about how he's a bad person to the kids and its his fault, so I ended it by saying that's not where I intended the convo to go, and that his kids love him and miss him.

I see that I've pushed him away. I don't want to hear it, and I would meet with him if he could show that he wasn't in such a bitter resentful mood and I knew he'd treat me respectfully. I don't know how to give him his dignity right now. I don't know how to back down, because when I tried to he saw it as me ignoring him. I guess I feel like I can't do anything right, because either way it backfires. He has already left, he's already gone. It's just a matter of making it final. In his eyes, it's unrepairable. But I guess it's hard because I don't know WHY he thinks that. I quit asking. I just hope and pray that he takes some time and figures out a way to communicate with me. If I give him an ultimatum, he's definitely gone for good. 

I guess I just want so badly to communicate with him, but it never works. I'm out of options.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, guys. I made the mistake of sending him a text *saying that it hurts to be treated with complete disregard* by someone who says they care about you. I kept my tone light, and man is he angry. About everything. I think he's just rushing to divorce because he feels like I've gotten to everyone and he's on trial. My only hope is that he cools off and really thinks about why I've done what I've done. His best friend is dumbfounded. Says he has no idea what to do or say. H says he doesn't trust anyone right now so he's not talking to anyone about it. I asked what he has to trust them with? *Told him he's punishing me and the kids are suffering*. He then went into pity mode saying the kids hate him and don't want to see him, and *that's his fault because he made his bed*. Kept saying things like "just trying to make this easy on them" and "hope we can do this amicably for the kids sake". *I told him this wasn't where I wanted to convo to go so it was over*.


Yep. Great way to get him to see you as the better option.

Tell me: WHY would he choose to come back to you at this point?

I'm asking an honest question. Aside from having kids together, in HIS mind, why would he want to come back to you right now? 

When he knows you will blame him, harangue him, and make him feel like crap?

Would *YOU* go back to someone who you know is going to chew you out like that?


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, babe. I guess it's just hard because *he's MAD right now.* And I hate that he's doing things with that anger. Without even discussing it. I'm taking today off to go see an attorney for advice. He seemed to calm a little while texting last night, but I just ended it before I started groveling. Wish I had a clue about what the real truth is. He seriously acts like there's no one else and I've stirred up all this trouble and come to this big conclusion that is unwarranted.


*WHY* is he mad?


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I get that, I do. I'm trying to do nothing, but he is so angry and thinks I'm angry and resentful right back at him. He's mad at his friends, and he's shut everyone out. I meant that I kept it from being too intense on my half. I didn't attack or tell him he was wrong. I just told him I wasn't pissed at him, I wasn't ignoring him, I just wasn't going to talk to him when he was worked up and being disrespectful. I just told him I wasn't resentful towards him and I wish he didn't see me as out to drag him through the dirt. I apologized for him feeling the way he does and he kept saying I do resent and hate him even though I won't tell him at this time. I asked him to talk to our son, and told them that they love him and miss him and they don't hate him.
> 
> I have told him he has a right to his own feelings. I don't tell him he's wrong. I am backing off, I just felt like I had to let him know I wasn't angry at him, I was just hurt, since he was so mad that I hadn't answered his email or texts (which were also hurtful.) But right now, how do I do nothing? Just let the mistakes bury us and end our marriage?
> 
> He wasn't sharing real feelings, he was lashing out about everything he thinks I've done. It started to be about how he's a bad person to the kids and its his fault, so I ended it by saying that's not where I intended the convo to go, and that his kids love him and miss him.
> 
> I see that I've pushed him away. I don't want to hear it, and I would meet with him if he could show that he wasn't in such a bitter resentful mood and I knew he'd treat me respectfully. I don't know how to give him his dignity right now. I don't know how to back down, because when I tried to he saw it as me ignoring him. I guess I feel like I can't do anything right, because either way it backfires. He has already left, he's already gone. It's just a matter of making it final. In his eyes, it's unrepairable. But I guess it's hard because I don't know WHY he thinks that. I quit asking. I just hope and pray that he takes some time and figures out a way to communicate with me. If I give him an ultimatum, he's definitely gone for good.
> 
> I guess I just want so badly to communicate with him, but it never works. I'm out of options.


I get it. I think you intentions aren't in line with your actions. Your life is spiraling out of control and you think you have to keep trying different things. And it's making you seem out of control. The best thing you can do is remove him from equation.
Why do you fear his anger? Sometimes you have to have a discussion that starts in anger and you keep plugging away and get through it unless he's abusive. If he is then the ea is biggest favor ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

golfergirl said:


> Stop sending texts about him hurting you or disregarding you. He KNOWS he's doing it and he doesn't care. He might even be doing it on purpose to further justify leaving you. *What about the 48 hour rule jb offered you before sending feeling emails and texts.*
> 
> I do have a few questions...
> 
> How can a text about him disregarding your wants and feelings be said in a light tone? It isn't, *you know you're going to get crap for yet another relationship text message, so you're trying to throw us off. [i.e., deflect our suggestion that YOU could be doing something differently]*That conversation, no matter what the tone, cannot be 'light'.
> 
> *What does he have to say or do so you will allow him his own feelings.* He says he wants out but you think he's rushing it or he's backed in corner and pushing for it. *What does he have to do to show you he has a right to his own feelings? *I do see where he gets angry. If I tell my husband I think this or that and *I get told, 'no you don't, you're just confused - depressed or angry' I feel totally discounted and eventually angry*.
> 
> Another question - do you want to discuss things or don't you? *When he is sharing true feelings why shut him down saying you are ending conversation because it's not going where you want it to*. Reconcilliation conversations are hard and hurtful. *You hear stuff you don't want to hear because face it - right or wrong, justified or not, you are doing something your partner doesn't like. So why shut him down when he's trying to open up to you*?
> I get you're trying to fight for your marriage. But you're doing everything wrong. Sorry but you are. *You couldn't push him farther and harder away if you tried.*
> *He has a right to his own feelings. Allow him that. Tell him yours but don't step all over his.*
> You have right to your needs. State them, be clear on them but you can't make him do them. MC, no contact and total transparency. You need that? Tell him. He can't do it - well either you decide you can live without or it's over. You can't force him.
> *But I think you've got some backing down to do before you get to that point. He wants to leave - he's told you that and you won't even allow him that. You want to be told in person but won't answer texts, phone calls or emails. You're avoiding him because you can't hear it.*
> I feel your pain and I know your intentions are good. But back off him. Give the man a shred of dignity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Lonely, this was a very insightful post and, just like the others who have asked you to look at your OWN actions, you brush them off like dust. Please go back and answer gg's questions and comments, outlined above.

And please do your marriage a favor and try to answer them WITHOUT just justifying yourself. Can you do that?


----------



## Prodigal

Well, praise be! Somebody actually sees the validity of my response, even though it was considered non-advice by the OP. I read responses after I was told my advice was of no value and noticed people were saying the same thing I said, just in a slightly different manner.

This poster has chosen not to take advice has chosen to continue posting looking for I-don't-know-what. Other people are saying the same thing I said. Granted, I was more blunt, figuring that might get through.

Forget it. Blunt didn't work either. I've been on forums before, and generally at this point, the moderator will intervene and lock down the thread.

This thread has simply become repetitive and of no intrinsic value after more than 300 posts. I say respect what the OP wishes to do, let her do whatever she chooses to do, and leave it at that. Take what you want, and leave the rest. Jeesh!


----------



## vivea

Oh...hold on...what's happening here...?! Prodigal why are you yelling at lonely .. .If you're hanging out here you're supposed to support her not being mean to her.If she irritates you you can just not come to her thread.WTH?! 
Somehow your posts stand out to being mean...you did great if that was your intention. 

I get the constructive criticism that turnera and golfergirl give 
which is still a little borderline for my personal taste but I get it.

Obviously lonely is struggling and can't let go,if she needs to hear the same thing over and over again so be it,who are you to judge the way she responds to her advice on her thread ...if you want to keep repeating that's great because that what support is....sometimes people need to be repeated the same thing over and over so they can get it . So what if the thread goes in circles...i'm sorry i don't get your criticism...This is so personal ,every person responds differently to advice. and she is not posting looking for i-don't-know-what...she is getting things out of her chest....WTF ?!


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> I get it. I think you intentions aren't in line with your actions. Your life is spiraling out of control and you think you have to keep trying different things. And it's making you seem out of control. The best thing you can do is remove him from equation.
> Why do you fear his anger? Sometimes you have to have a discussion that starts in anger and you keep plugging away and get through it unless he's abusive. If he is then the ea is biggest favor ever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, you've got it. My intentions are to open up a line of communication, but every time I do that, he gets defensive and angry. I want to work on how I communicate with him, and we haven't spoken in two weeks. He has the kids tonight overnight, and then I'll have them again tomorrow. I was thinking about calling him and asking him if he'd like to go talk with me tomorrow after work. I don't know if he would, and I guess I'd just gauge it by how he sounds. I want to tell him I miss him and I'm sorry for how I've made him feel. And explain how I felt and why I did the things I did. I just don't know if leaving him alone is best or trying to talk to him is better. If he's having an affair, I don't know what good any of it will do. And that's my big hangup. I think it makes a bit of difference whether this is a communication breakdown or if it's infidelity. If I let him be angry and I stay calm, I don't know if there would be any plugging through. It's this unknown variable that bugs me.


----------



## Prodigal

vivea said:


> If you're hanging out here you're supposed to support her not being mean to her.If she irritates you you can just not come to her thread.WTH?!
> Somehow your posts stand out to being mean...you did great if that was your intention.





vivea said:


> WTF ?!


Nice talk. BTW, you are hijacking the OP's post. You have a problem with me, PM it. Otherwise, what you think is none of my business on another person's post.


----------



## LonelyNLost

vivea said:


> Oh...hold on...what's happening here...?! Prodigal why are you yelling at lonely .. .If you're hanging out here you're supposed to support her not being mean to her.If she irritates you you can just not come to her thread.WTH?!
> Somehow your posts stand out to being mean...you did great if that was your intention.
> 
> I get the constructive criticism that turnera and golfergirl give
> which is still a little borderline for my personal taste but I get it.
> 
> Obviously lonely is struggling and can't let go,if she needs to hear the same thing over and over again so be it,who are you to judge the way she responds to her advice on her thread ...if you want to keep repeating that's great because that what support is....sometimes people need to be repeated the same thing over and over so they can get it . So what if the thread goes in circles...i'm sorry i don't get your criticism...This is so personal ,every person responds differently to advice. and she is not posting looking for i-don't-know-what...she is getting things out of her chest....WTF ?!


Thanks, viv. I won't even justify that rant with a response. Like I said, if you don't have anything constructive to add, move along. I understand that maybe I might come off a certain way in my thread while trying to communicate my dynamics, and it might look different ways to different people. But I am not the controlling, mean, attacking wife that I'm painted to be. I just want to understand, and I'm very much a problem-solver, and I don't ever quit. I am a planner, I'm a teacher for goodness sake! 

I'm sharing my story and getting input here, venting along the way. I read every response and consider it and how it applies to my situation. I don't feel this is going in circles. This is my journey. This is my struggle. I'm not ready to just say, "Oh well, I tried. Have a nice life, H." He's my husband, I love him with all my heart, and I want our marriage to have a shot.


----------



## Oak

Hey Lonely,

I have not been on much as I have been focusing on other things, but after reading through the last couple of day's worth of posts I HAD to drop in on your thread to say hello.

Remember that this thread is your journal, your support mechanism and you can take from it what you want. We post here to support you. Period.

Also remember that there is a nifty ignore feature that blocks posts from anyone whose opinion you do not care to be bothered with. 

Take care!


----------



## LonelyNLost

Oak said:


> Hey Lonely,
> 
> I have not been on much as I have been focusing on other things, but after reading through the last couple of day's worth of posts I HAD to drop in on your thread to say hello.
> 
> Remember that this thread is your journal, your support mechanism and you can take from it what you want. We post here to support you. Period.
> 
> Also remember that there is a nifty ignore feature that blocks posts from anyone whose opinion you do not care to be bothered with.
> 
> Take care!


Thanks, Oak! Handy feature, indeed.  

I appreciate your support.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, Oak! Handy feature, indeed.
> 
> I appreciate your support.


I don't mean to attack you - just hope you can take a step back and not react so quickly. It is your life and you know H best just sometimes waiting before acting or replying is a good thing. You are an anonymous stranger but I and many others do care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

vivea said:


> Oh...hold on...what's happening here...?! Prodigal why are you yelling at lonely .. .If you're hanging out here you're supposed to support her not being mean to her.If she irritates you you can just not come to her thread.WTH?!
> Somehow your posts stand out to being mean...you did great if that was your intention.
> 
> I get the constructive criticism that turnera and golfergirl give
> which is still a little borderline for my personal taste but I get it.
> 
> Obviously lonely is struggling and can't let go,if she needs to hear the same thing over and over again so be it,who are you to judge the way she responds to her advice on her thread ...if you want to keep repeating that's great because that what support is....sometimes people need to be repeated the same thing over and over so they can get it . So what if the thread goes in circles...i'm sorry i don't get your criticism...This is so personal ,every person responds differently to advice. and she is not posting looking for i-don't-know-what...she is getting things out of her chest....WTF ?!


Viv, I worked 10 years as a 911 operator and can be a little blunt. Haven't worked there for 4 years and believe it or not I have softend over the years lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I am not the controlling, mean, attacking wife that I'm painted to be. I just want to understand, and I'm very much a problem-solver, and I don't ever quit. I am a planner


LNL, what you are receiving from (my) comments, I think, is a matter of *levels*. 

I in no way have said that you ARE a controlling, mean, attacking wife. I'm sure you're a very nice person.

I HAVE said that you DO try to control, and your actions ARE being seen (by your husband) as attacks.

Which could be said about ANY of us, couldn't it?

My take on your situation is nothing more than me using my experience in dealing with hundreds of other marriages where I have observed the couples from the initial post, to suggested steps to take, to various levels of said posters either following the advice or ignoring it, all the way to more or less conclusions of said posters' stories. 

I'm telling you what it feels like is going on in your dynamics with your husband based on what I've seen in their situations, what works, what doesn't, what posters and their spouses have later said worked for them or didn't...

And the bottom line is that we are each individuals. We cannot MAKE our spouse do what we want. We can only put the best face forward and BE the person our spouse wants to be with. (except in cases of infidelity, which requires a whole other layer of work)

I've been trying to help you see HOW to put that best face forward so as not to drive your husband further away. Because, in the end, you can't make him stay or come home or even choose you. 

He will do what makes him feel good (as you are doing, as we all do), and he will avoid what makes him feel bad. So your only hope is to BE what makes him feel good.

If you want to see that as me attacking you and expend energy just defending yourself to us to prove there's nothing wrong on your end, instead of looking at the information and seeing if/how it fits to help you get back together, well, that's your choice. You can certainly put me on ignore if you don't want to hear it. 

But I'll tell you something I learned many years ago, when it was ME who was in YOUR position, and I didn't want to hear others keep telling me to look at myself - when you have strong reactions to what people are telling you, you can be pretty sure that it's something you need to pay attention to. People called me out on my actions a LOT; I was there having a pity party about how awful my husband was, wasn't I the martyr, when some wonderful people kept asking me to justify my own actions. I was mad! How dare they?! Couldn't they see my husband was a monster? They stuck with me, for a couple of years(!), until it finally hit me one day. I saw how my husband was seeing ME...and I didn't like what he saw.

I'm in a better place than I've been in a decade, because I listened and quit defending myself and started making changes on ME. I'm just asking you to do the same.


----------



## anx

It sucks to read that you are still going through this all, and he isn't realizing things or treating you better.

I've been reading love must be tough, and its similar to the 180. I think it might be time to set him completely free. Stand up for youself, value yourself, and draw a boundary. Pull back from him. Let him to whatever he wants with the freedom and find out for himself what he is losing.

You can't stop him from doing what is he going to do. Let him make that choice and deal with the consequences. 

Make it known that you are still interested in making it work but that won't last forever. Say that you know you contributed to this some as well. Still be loving if he is nice, but firm at the same time. Not an ultimatum, but be free and choose what he is going to chose. It has the same effect and he has the same choice to make, but its different at the same time.



> I'm not ready to just say, "Oh well, I tried. Have a nice life, H." He's my husband, I love him with all my heart, and I want our marriage to have a shot.


 I think you have to say something close to this. "I've tried hard and are willing to do my part. Figure out what you want. You are free to make whatever choice that you are going to". Demand respect in this.

I think your only hope in fixing this is pulling back and see if he pulls towards you.


----------



## turnera

anx, that's a good plan.


----------



## Jellybeans

Yes to everything Anx said. Wanting to save your marriage is noble, however it takes two. If one person won't meet you halfway, then you need to decide if you are going to be strung along forever and ever and ever.

I told my H something along the lines of "I have been wanting and willing to save our M but it takes two. Love should be free. If you decide you're 100% committed to me than maybe we can talk about it but in the interim, I won't stay like this anymore."


----------



## vivea

Prodigal said:


> Nice talk. BTW, you are hijacking the OP's post. You have a problem with me, PM it. Otherwise, what you think is none of my business on another person's post.


None of this 4 sentences make sense...sorry I'm not in high-school anymore.


-----------------------
golfergirl...I get it,I'm sure your job was super stressful . 

Lonely..YES to what anx has said.You can do it babe.hugs


----------



## anx

I think the other part about this is he won't respect you unless you respect yourself and demand he treat you with respect. Respect isn't bargained for, it is demanded and earned.

I've pulled away a number of times, and every time my wife has pulled closer to me and closer to where our marriage needs to be. I definitely feared losing my wife a number of times, but only pulling away and demanding respect worked in the intense make or break moments. I walked out of our apartment three times and didn't return txts for 10 min to an hour. I made it clear that if I wasn't valuable enough to treat well that I wasn't holding her here and was willing to walk.

Again, I'm so sorry you are still going through this all. Your husband is a jerk. I still hope and pray he realizes you are worth treating like a wife. I know this is hard to read and do, but I'm really saying this because I strongly believe it is your last and best shot. There is still something there. He wouldn't be mean or rude or keep contact if there was. No amount of talking or devotion or love will make him find that again. Only he can.

This relationship from HS is cheap and he will see that, but let me make that mistake. You cannot stop it and if you try it will only drive him further away.

Edit: LOL, I reread your posts again, and saw you had also read love must be tough. You can do it!


----------



## vivea

> I walked out of our apartment three times and didn't return txts for 10 min to an hour.



Anx...Did you do that after you got back together??!!


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> I don't mean to attack you - just hope you can take a step back and not react so quickly. It is your life and you know H best just sometimes waiting before acting or replying is a good thing. You are an anonymous stranger but I and many others do care.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, you don't bother me at all.  I appreciate your support and I get it. I do react sometimes. But I'm working on that. Since nothing has worked, I think I'm going to do nothing. If he files, he files, and I'll have to deal with that. But his best friend seems to think he's still cake eating and wants to see me miserable.


----------



## Jellybeans

Oh he is still cake-eating. That is a fact. And he's doing it because you have basically told him you're there for him no matter what.


----------



## LonelyNLost

*UPDATE!!! WHAT A JERK!*

So, he has now digressed to an even lower form of scum.  Told him this past weekend when he sent the message about missing the kids that he could have them every Thursday, every other Sunday, and other weekdays if he just let me know. But he didn't initiate anything and just came to get them today. I teach at our son's school, so I just put the kids' stuff in my car and he got it out and I sent my son out. Well, I go to leave later, and in my front seat is a note attached to a PARENTAL CUSTODY AGREEMENT. He is asking for 50/50 custody because the courts suggest that (means no child support for me) where he gets them 6 nights in a two week period. He wants them Thursdays at 3pm until Friday morning, then Saturday nights at 8pm until Monday morning. I only get Sat and Sun off, so on my days off I'd only see them for daylight hours on Saturday. I don't think that's fair. And I'm not signing anything or acknowledging it. 

That was spineless and heartless. I deserve more than that. Hurt like heck. Can't even sit down face to face and tell me he wants a divorce?! What is this about?! A note saying what he wants and for me to let him know if that's okay, and he's already filled the packet out saying he gets all holidays this year?! Says we have to talk and figure things out but we need to get the kids sorted out. Then tonight my daughter is crying on the phone for me. He has to realize I won't take this lying down, and if I don't get support my butt is moving 3 hours away with my mom. He also is staying with his parents, so no place of his own for our kids. 

Just FYI, in our state, there is no legal separation. You file for divorce, then go to a mediator. He is trying to do mediator stuff now before filing because we don't have money to file. I can also file for an abatement, 3 month cooling off period, after he files to slow things down. Everyone that's aware seems to think he'd realize with time he's messing up. But idk. Is he mad because he isn't getting a reaction?! It's all so weird. 


*turnera* ~ No, I didn't put you on ignore. I understand where you are coming from. I see what you mean. But also, in this case where there is enough for me to KNOW something fishy is going on and this isn't all about us, it's more about a fog and OW, I feel I've been more than fair. I wouldn't be able to sit by passive. Not that everything I've done has been perfect, but I think he knows I'm not accepting of this. 

*anx* ~ Thanks for the advice. I read about half of Love Must Be Tough, and I am going with the setting free thing. I don't think I'll send him a letter or anything, since my last one wasn't well received. The note he left today was so cold and emotionless. You've said basically what his best friend told me tonight. Anything I do is going to push him away, and the last thing he wants to see is me happy and independent without him. I feel like I've let him disrespect me and I did say that by text the other night. But I'm not sure how to demand respect with the whole leaving the custody agreement and telling me he's over our marriage by text and then taking off his wedding ring. So childish.


----------



## Jellybeans

You asked if he's mad cause he's not getting a reaction...

At this point mad or not, it doesn't matter. You need to get a lawyer and protect yourself. STAT.

Do NOT sign anything without consulting with a lawyer first. 

This is very very important (getting a lawyer). Call tomorrow.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> You asked if he's mad cause he's not getting a reaction...
> 
> At this point mad or not, it doesn't matter. You need to get a lawyer and protect yourself. STAT.
> 
> Do NOT sign anything without consulting with a lawyer first.
> 
> This is very very important (getting a lawyer). Call tomorrow.



Well, he doesn't have a lawyer, he just consulted like I did. I will see another one and show them this paperwork he gave me. I know how the process works, and the other lawyer said it was weird to do mediation before filing. Not sure what his rush is, or if he's trying to get me to agree with this for now because he thinks I want to make him happy, then he'll be set for later when we do divorce.


----------



## anx

@vivea, yes, I walked out once after we reconciled. It was a stressful week after we agreed to try something we had previously fought about. Ground rules were set and we did it. She got very agitated, was disrespectful, and kind of mean. I didn't say anything while we were out because I didn't want to start a fight in public. At home, I respectfully said you were agitated and took it out on me. You can't disrespect me like that. I did everything to make sure today went well. She walked away saying leave me alone. I got my keys and said I'll be back and how she treated me wasn't ok. We were able to talk about it later and it was better, but there really wasn't any purpose in sticking around. I walked out two other times when she was going to talk to someone online instead of watch TV with me and I can't remember the third right now.

LnL, theres a few books on doing D right. Flip through them at the bookstore or something. Theres a lot of president stuff that can hurt you in the long run. If you were to agree to 50/50 now, it would be terrible. Right now I think you can claim abandonment or something because he left the family home and was dating someone else.


----------



## sisters359

Lonely, consider trying this: no more direct contact until he agrees to marriage counseling. He probably won't--at least not right now--but you will stop torturing yourself with "what does this mean" and "how should I respond?" 

Let him know in an email (so you have a copy) that he may contact you through XXX (a neutral party--someone who isn't in your family or circle of friends, maybe a neighbor who is just an acquaintance, whatever). Let him know that communications about money matters and the kids are appropriate; anything else needs to be addressed when the two of you sit down together in front of a MC. 

I don't think you can move forward as long as you are clinging to every communication with him--and you continue to communicate as a way of clinging, b/c you do not want the marriage to end. But what you are doing isn't working, so it's time to try something new.

By repeatedly asserting that you want to save the marriage and that you want the the guidance of a MC, you are clearly showing that saving the marriage is your top priority--which is true--and you are protecting yourself from these futile exchanges which actually seem to be making things worse for you.

If, on the other hand, you decide you do not want to save the marriage, then just send an email insisting on no further direct contact, and indicate who will act as the neutral party-you could get a lawyer at this point, and refer all matters related to the divorce and custody, etc., to the attorney. 

As I read through the thread, I see you agonizing over everything--when he communicates and when he does not. That does not seemed to have helped you, and it hasn't helped the marriage.

And, by the way, he never accepted responsibility for the first EA, no matter what he has said about it--that was all said just to make you feel sorry for him. If he had accepted responsibility and truly loved you, he would have given you all the time you needed, and all the reassurance you needed, to rebuild the trust he had violated. He got ugly about your insecurities b/c they were making it hard for him to be deceptive, that's all. He does not sound like a man who was deeply in love with you, I'm sorry to say. He sounds like a man who needs constant reassurance from women (plural) that he is really special--and your insecurities (well founded) were a reminder to him that he wasn't so special. You deserve better than someone who is only willing to hang around as long as you bolster up his fantasy of who he is.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> *UPDATE!!! WHAT A JERK!*
> 
> So, he has now digressed to an even lower form of scum.  Told him this past weekend when he sent the message about missing the kids that he could have them every Thursday, every other Sunday, and other weekdays if he just let me know. But he didn't initiate anything and just came to get them today. I teach at our son's school, so I just put the kids' stuff in my car and he got it out and I sent my son out. Well, I go to leave later, and in my front seat is a note attached to a PARENTAL CUSTODY AGREEMENT. He is asking for 50/50 custody because the courts suggest that (means no child support for me) where he gets them 6 nights in a two week period. He wants them Thursdays at 3pm until Friday morning, then Saturday nights at 8pm until Monday morning. I only get Sat and Sun off, so on my days off I'd only see them for daylight hours on Saturday. I don't think that's fair. And I'm not signing anything or acknowledging it.
> 
> That was spineless and heartless. I deserve more than that. Hurt like heck. Can't even sit down face to face and tell me he wants a divorce?! What is this about?! A note saying what he wants and for me to let him know if that's okay, and he's already filled the packet out saying he gets all holidays this year?! Says we have to talk and figure things out but we need to get the kids sorted out. Then tonight my daughter is crying on the phone for me. He has to realize I won't take this lying down, and if I don't get support my butt is moving 3 hours away with my mom. He also is staying with his parents, so no place of his own for our kids.
> 
> Just FYI, in our state, there is no legal separation. You file for divorce, then go to a mediator. He is trying to do mediator stuff now before filing because we don't have money to file. I can also file for an abatement, 3 month cooling off period, after he files to slow things down. Everyone that's aware seems to think he'd realize with time he's messing up. But idk. Is he mad because he isn't getting a reaction?! It's all so weird.
> 
> 
> *turnera* ~ No, I didn't put you on ignore. I understand where you are coming from. I see what you mean. But also, in this case where there is enough for me to KNOW something fishy is going on and this isn't all about us, it's more about a fog and OW, I feel I've been more than fair. I wouldn't be able to sit by passive. Not that everything I've done has been perfect, but I think he knows I'm not accepting of this.
> 
> *anx* ~ Thanks for the advice. I read about half of Love Must Be Tough, and I am going with the setting free thing. I don't think I'll send him a letter or anything, since my last one wasn't well received. The note he left today was so cold and emotionless. You've said basically what his best friend told me tonight. Anything I do is going to push him away, and the last thing he wants to see is me happy and independent without him. I feel like I've let him disrespect me and I did say that by text the other night. But I'm not sure how to demand respect with the whole leaving the custody agreement and telling me he's over our marriage by text and then taking off his wedding ring. So childish.


Just so you know - most custody orders recommend each parent get a weekend off with kids to maximize their time off. Not fair he get all the down time and you get all the work. I had where I had primary custody - he got them every 2nd weekend from Friday at 5 to Sundays at 7 and Wednesdays from 5-9. So his next hit - get you in heart through the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Neil

LonelyNLost said:


> Not sure what his rush is


In my opinion..

because he knows that you will do anything at this point to try and do what he wants. He thinks your weak and will agree to anything

And do you know what, I think you should do the exact opposite.

Don't even think of signing any agreements.

First things first, you need a lawyer.

Then do what YOU want to do to make things easier and a smile on YOUR face and the kids.

Let him F*** his own life up without dragging you down with him.

If I could have 5 mins with him, i'd kick his ass for you


----------



## LonelyNLost

Thanks, everyone. I'm gobsmacked by this. He is being so ugly. I think I'm going with, "I didn't even look at your note or papers. Considering the way you're treating me lately, I don't need anything more thrown at me." And then saying if he wants to talk, we can meet in front of a MC. I'm pissed he did this when he had the kids. Then my daughter calling me crying last night and making me cry. It's like he's out for some revenge.

I'm going to try to get in to see a different attorney today and show them the papers. He definitely has gone through the stuff on my nightstand, not sure what he's looking for. I am not signing anything. Like I said, I don't think it's even necessary at this point. I think I might not pay my mortgage payment and sock that money away. If this goes the way he wants, our credit is screwed anyhow. So might as well be prepared. 

I know that he did love me deeply at one point, and even cared about me a month ago. He's just fell into temptation and twisted things in his head. He cried at the altar when we married, and he cried when I threw our vows in his face in December and he recommitted to the marriage. But it all fell apart when he went to Vegas and saw her while visiting his friends in January. His best friend is pissed at him, but H won't even open up to him. I texted with his best friend last night for a couple hours. He says H is miserable, he just won't show it. And that he's angry because he can't handle the guilt. He wants to see me miserable too, and he said that he needs to see me happy and fine without him. I think it's too late for that.


----------



## Niceguy13

Neil said:


> In my opinion..
> 
> because he knows that you will do anything at this point to try and do what he wants. He thinks your weak and will agree to anything
> 
> And do you know what, I think you should do the exact opposite.
> 
> Don't even think of signing any agreements.
> 
> First things first, you need a lawyer.
> 
> Then do what YOU want to do to make things easier and a smile on YOUR face and the kids.
> 
> Let him F*** his own life up without dragging you down with him.
> 
> If I could have 5 mins with him, i'd kick his ass for you


I just started this she got pissed and you know what it felt damned good.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Niceguy13 said:


> I just started this she got pissed and you know what it felt damned good.


What? You moved on with your life and started being happy and she got pissed?


----------



## tamara24

LNL,

The man can not stoop any lower. These kids are products of your love and to carelessly leave a note in the car is just so imature. Both of you have a responsibility to the kids to make sure they stay out of the divorce as much as possible. He should be thinking about what is best for his kids(seeing their mom more than just early morning). His actions show that he plans to run over you. He put it in your car because he is a coward! 

Do not do this by sitting down. Get your boxing gloves on! You are protecting you and the well being of your kids. He is the one having an affair, he left the house and you and the kids. Now he needs consequences!! You have tried to be nice and he basically spit in your face! Get that attorney and inform him that his child custody agreement does not fit in you or your kids life and you will not be signing. If he wants the divorce, he left so now he needs to play using your rules! Don't back down!

I am so sorry that you are going through this. You have to stay tough. You need to show him that you are doing well without him. Go out, do fun things and let the kids tell him how life in your house is happy and doing well. Kids have a way of saying things that can be so innocent yet brutal! Do you have any unattached male friends? Go out to dinner with them. Let the hubby find out! He will be furious. I think he will get a glimpse of you moving on and seeing you with another man will take him over the edge!it. Can be a completely innocent dinner. The point is, I think that will give him a jolt of reality. My wife will be free to see other people too!

He defintley is eating his cake! Take that fork right out of his hand and stick it....oh never mind you know!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> LNL,
> 
> The man can not stoop any lower. These kids are products of your love and to carelessly leave a note in the car is just so imature. Both of you have a responsibility to the kids to make sure they stay out of the divorce as much as possible. He should be thinking about what is best for his kids(seeing their mom more than just early morning). His actions show that he plans to run over you. He put it in your car because he is a coward!
> 
> Do not do this by sitting down. Get your boxing gloves on! You are protecting you and the well being of your kids. He is the one having an affair, he left the house and you and the kids. Now he needs consequences!! You have tried to be nice and he basically spit in your face! Get that attorney and inform him that his child custody agreement does not fit in you or your kids life and you will not be signing. If he wants the divorce, he left so now he needs to play using your rules! Don't back down!
> 
> I am so sorry that you are going through this. You have to stay tough. You need to show him that you are doing well without him. Go out, do fun things and let the kids tell him how life in your house is happy and doing well. Kids have a way of saying things that can be so innocent yet brutal! Do you have any unattached male friends? Go out to dinner with them. Let the hubby find out! He will be furious. I think he will get a glimpse of you moving on and seeing you with another man will take him over the edge!it. Can be a completely innocent dinner. The point is, I think that will give him a jolt of reality. My wife will be free to see other people too!
> 
> He defintley is eating his cake! Take that fork right out of his hand and stick it....oh never mind you know!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like the way you think. Believe me, I do not take things lying down. He knows this, that's what makes me think he's waiting for a reaction. Last night when he realized my mom was here, he probably started to get a little scared. She is a fighter and he knows it. And she's here to make sure he doesn't run over me. 

He IS spitting in my face. Looking back at his texts, it's almost like he's taunting me with the fact that I don't have any proof, I haven't found anything to prove his affair. He says I believe what I want to believe and have pushed him too far. Uh, yeah, okay. The fact that his best friend is shut out and disgusted by him speaks volumes. He is asking me if I would ever want this man back after he's treated me. I told him I didn't know. I keep thinking time will snap him out of it, but anyhow I know I'll be fine regardless. Yes, major life changes, but I can get through it. But he knows that the kids are my world, and he's trying to hit me in the heart. He's punishing me and acting the way I SHOULD be acting. 

I thought about meeting up with some people I've met online but he wouldn't have any idea I was doing that. And to be honest, I'm afraid to even put myself in a situation like that. The kids go back and tell him mommy's friend came over and he'd probably paint me as an unfit mother or something. I'm not changing the locks for now, but I also don't like how he's coming in and snooping while I'm at work. Maybe next time he'll find some flowers from a secret admirer. 

Funny thing I keep thinking of...He has this tattoo on his back of a globe, and it says "My Life, My World" and it has my name on it along with my sons. What's he going to do about that big fat lie?


----------



## anx

My wife has a tattoo of a compass she got and it signified her feeling of not knowing where she was headed next and the hard time she has knowing whats right and the direction to take. Its hard to look at that every night and think about what that has meant in our marriage.

Give him some tough love. WOW @ crying at alter and when you said vows again. He's lost himself. I don't think that its you who is lost.


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> My wife has a tattoo of a compass she got and it signified her feeling of not knowing where she was headed next and the hard time she has knowing whats right and the direction to take. Its hard to look at that every night and think about what that has meant in our marriage.
> 
> Give him some tough love. WOW @ crying at alter and when you said vows again. He's lost himself. I don't think that its you who is lost.


It is all so strange. He has lost himself and what he stands for. He's lost his sense of loyalty and family. It's amazing this girl has that much pull on him. His best friend said she was a drain on him in high school, and he thinks she's a drain on him now. It's unfortunate. I don't doubt that he loves me deeply, I just think he's blind to that in this fog. His best friend also says this isn't about me. It's about him and his own internal struggle. I think now he's hiding it and telling himself he's going to be happy but he's really miserable. That's what the anger is about, to cover up the guilt that is rearing it's ugly head. I think he's also convinced himself that this situation has spiraled out of control and there's no going back. Which might be true.

The funny thing is, that this girl hasn't contacted me. She has my facebook and my phone number now. She knows that my H told me about her problems in her marriage with her ex based on what I wrote to him. She's probably mad and that's transferring to H. She's on his tail. LOL. Any decent woman would call me up and explain herself or tell me off, but no.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Not sure what his rush is


His rush is that he is showing you by his actions where his head is at. You have to start thinking it's over, Lonely. Done. Let him go. Do you really want to be with a man who would so callously walk out on you and your kids and has been unfaithful MORE THAN ONCE and won't even own it??? That has so little respect for you he can't even tell you the truth??? 

Yep, he wants you to agree to ev erything cause if a divorce goes through, any agreement made prior is 99% of the time signed by the judge. Protect yourself, your kids, and get a lawyer. NO MORE talking to him or asking him to go to MC and professing your undying love for him. He does NOT have your best interests. Get it?




sisters359 said:


> I don't think you can move forward as long as you are clinging to every communication with him--and you continue to communicate as a way of clinging, b/c you do not want the marriage to end. But what you are doing isn't working, so it's time to try something new.
> 
> By repeatedly asserting that you want to save the marriage and that you want the the guidance of a MC, you are clearly showing that saving the marriage is your top priority--which is true--and you are protecting yourself from these futile exchanges which actually seem to be making things worse for you.
> 
> As I read through the thread, I see you agonizing over everything--when he communicates and when he does not. *That does not seemed to have helped you, and it hasn't helped the marriage.* He does not sound like a man who was deeply in love with you, I'm sorry to say. You deserve better than someone who is only willing to hang around as long as you bolster up his fantasy of who he is.


THIS!!!



LonelyNLost said:


> I think I'm going with, "I didn't even look at your note or papers. Considering the way you're treating me lately, I don't need anything more thrown at me." And then saying if he wants to talk, we can meet in front of a MC.


No, sweetie. It doesn't work that way. Once one party has had papers drawn up, it's not the time to keep telling them that you want to be with them/groveling. He doesn't want to do MC. If he would have wanted it, it'd already have been done. Just like if he wanted to cut off contact with the skank, he would have done it already. Just like if he wanted to come home, he would have done it. He doesn't want to. Those papers are a HUGE sign of where his mind is at. Start accepting it. If you don't, this is going to be even harder for you.



LonelyNLost said:


> He's just fell into temptation and twisted things in his head. [ /QUOTE]
> 
> Do not make excuses for him. His decisions and choices are his own. We are all tempted. That doesn't mean we all act on it.
> 
> 
> 
> LonelyNLost said:
> 
> 
> 
> He cried at the altar when we married
> 
> 
> 
> My husband did that too. Even cried to me two weeks ago. And guess what... he divorced me on Monday.
> 
> Get yourself ready. Accept he's gone. And get a lawyer and protect yourself and your kids. No more Mr. Nice Guy from you and no more trying to help him see how wrong he is. he knows exactly what he is doing. The longer you cling, te more psycho and desperate you will appear to him.
Click to expand...


----------



## Neil

Can I add one thing to your thoughts...

Don't think of the happy times right now. Look whats in front of you.

And start acting like you would if this is the person he is going to be for the rest of his life. You don't want him.

Only if he ever has a change of heart in the future should you start thinking about all that.

And by then, who knows, you may then be truly happy and be with someone who respects you and loves you for you, and not for what piece of ass he can get on the side.

I think if you took the thought that this is now who he is and won't change, it will begin to help you move in the right direction


----------



## anx

> It is all so strange. He has lost himself and what he stands for. He's lost his sense of loyalty and family. It's amazing this girl has that much pull on him. His best friend said she was a drain on him in high school, and he thinks she's a drain on him now. It's unfortunate. I don't doubt that he loves me deeply, I just think he's blind to that in this fog. His best friend also says this isn't about me. It's about him and his own internal struggle. I think now he's hiding it and telling himself he's going to be happy but he's really miserable. That's what the anger is about, to cover up the guilt that is rearing it's ugly head. I think he's also convinced himself that this situation has spiraled out of control and there's no going back. Which might be true.


 I think this is the truth and the way to look at all of this. Let him decide what he is going to do next. I 100% agree with the guilt part. He knows what he is doing is wrong, he just has to see that.

Hopefully his best friend talks to him and tells him he is making a huge mistake. 

The chance your husband has at seeing the truth is giving him tough love and freedom.

I don't think there is no going back. Expose this affair to the people who matter, let him suffer the consequences, and be ready to divinely forgive if he does return. I had gotten my wife a few books recently on healing and forgiveness.


----------



## LonelyNLost

I got to see my son this morning when H dropped him off at school. He came in and started reporting that H had asked him if our neighbor (his friend of 8 years that he's shut out) has come over. I don't know why he asks that every time! He then told my that my daughter told H that "Mommy doesn't like you." I have never said that, but she's 2 and interprets it that way I guess. I have been crying or sad and she asks what's wrong and I tell her Daddy hurt my feelings. But I know I need to stop and just pull it together for them. I will not let him treat me like this AND take my kids away half the time. He said that H told him they are coming with him Sunday but not spending the night. At least he doesn't have the illusion that his proposed schedule is going to start now.

JB ~ You are right. I think I have to be ready to accept that and okay with it. It's just that he gets months to agonize and be confused because of his affair, and then once I get close to finding out the truth he freaks out and is talking attorneys and custody and goes and sees a lawyer. All the while, telling me he wants our marriage to work, he's just so defeated he doesn't know how to fix it, blah blah blah. I saw one, just consulted, which I'm sure he did because we have no money to pay for one. My family couldn't help me out either, and I'm afraid his parents could help him. I just don't know. 

And they aren't really papers drawn up. It's like a printout of our state's planning paperwork and he's filled it in himself. Telling me to let him know what I think. He knows full well what I think! Jerk! He thinks I'm uninformed but he's wrong. I don't even get what he was looking for on my nightstand yesterday. Really boggles my mind. 


Neil - That helps. To think of him as THIS cowardly, spineless bastard that is treating me like I should be treating him is an easy way to let him go. I guess I fear for my kids' security, and I fear of what will happen. Financial ruin, not sure of long term plans. He has to realize that the chances of me picking up and moving 3 hours away to be with my family are pretty good. Not sure how that works, will have to ask the attorney. I really don't want to leave my job here and uproot the kids in this.


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> I think this is the truth and the way to look at all of this. Let him decide what he is going to do next. I 100% agree with the guilt part. He knows what he is doing is wrong, he just has to see that.
> 
> Hopefully his best friend talks to him and tells him he is making a huge mistake.
> 
> The chance your husband has at seeing the truth is giving him tough love and freedom.
> 
> I don't think there is no going back. Expose this affair to the people who matter, let him suffer the consequences, and be ready to divinely forgive if he does return. I had gotten my wife a few books recently on healing and forgiveness.


 That's the problem, though. He talks to the best friend, but has no idea I have talked to him and he knows as much as he does. He also shuts the best friend down at any questions about how things are between us. Doesn't even vent to him to tell him about my snooping or anything. Just "acts" happy and posts some inspirational quotes on his fb page that make it seem like he's working through his problems, which he isn't. That's the friend's words. He told me he'd tell him he is wrong if he ever had the chance. 

I can't really expose the affair, because I have no proof, which he points out over and over again. Her stbx didn't bite when I wrote him. I told his mom what's going on and she didn't even respond to that part. He would just tell everyone I'm crazy. No one to expose it to, he's shut everyone out. And I'm not sure I could forgive again. I really don't know if I can get past this. I'd want the opportunity to try for the kids and for what we had together, but I would be so fearful of this happening again. And the way he's manipulated me and hurt me and treated me like yesterday's trash. The lies. The deceit. The way that I didn't like their friendship from the beginning and he chose to stay friends with her in the beginning. I should have kicked him out then. I didn't know the strength I had.


----------



## anx

I have read a lot on forgiveness recently as I've been trying to get it from my wife.

The best quote I read was "forgiveness is surrendering your will to hurt back or retaliate against those who hurt you". Its really not any more than that.

Someone else will judge your husband for this and he will suffer the consequences for his actions, that shouldn't come from you however. It doesn't mean you completely forget or stop protecting yourself. You don't allow the hurt to affect how you treat him going further. You don't be spiteful around him.

I know it sounds crazy, but if your husband does come back to you, I think you could make the heroic effort to forgive. It wouldn't be easy. It would probably be one of the hardest things you've ever done.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I can't really expose the affair, because I have no proof, which he points out over and over again.


I was in a similiar situation. He denies until this day but the facts don't add up. So you know how I came to terms w/ it: I just accepted he was lying to me. I just said "Yep he is having an affair and won't own it despite there being so much evidence." And that was it. He has to live with the fact that he didn't respect me enough to tell me the truth. Not my problem.


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> I have read a lot on forgiveness recently as I've been trying to get it from my wife.
> 
> The best quote I read was "forgiveness is surrendering your will to hurt back or retaliate against those who hurt you". Its really not any more than that.
> 
> Someone else will judge your husband for this and he will suffer the consequences for his actions, that shouldn't come from you however. It doesn't mean you completely forget or stop protecting yourself. You don't allow the hurt to affect how you treat him going further. You don't be spiteful around him.
> 
> I know it sounds crazy, but if your husband does come back to you, I think you could make the heroic effort to forgive. It wouldn't be easy. It would probably be one of the hardest things you've ever done.


Yeah, I have said to him via text when he says how done he is, "I am willing to forgive you for what you've done and how you've treated me, but you can't forgive my actions or how I've treated you. What is the cause of all this? Please tell me what I've done." But he just goes round and round on how he chose his actions and I chose mine. He's making this about me pushing him this far. Not about his wrongs. 

Honestly, I think he has too much PRIDE to come back to me.


----------



## Jellybeans

You have to stop sending those texts. Seriously. You come across as very clingy in them. 

He knows you will forgive him. If he doesnt want to forgive you, that's his damn loss.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I was in a similiar situation. He denies until this day but the facts don't add up. So you know how I came to terms w/ it: I just accepted he was lying to me. I just said "Yep he is having an affair and won't own it despite there being so much evidence." And that was it. He has to live with the fact that he didn't respect me enough to tell me the truth. Not my problem.


This is the advice that deejo gave. Makes sense, but I'm an answers person. I have to accept I may never get any, though my mom insists that it will all come out in time. The facts don't add up in my case. One day I will type them up and see what you think. But it's obvious to me. Especially after reading Decimated's "Gee Whiz, I want to have an affair!" post. He has lied to me about everything to do with her, so why not lie about how involved and connected he is with her? He's not respecting me at all right now.


----------



## Niceguy13

LnL I am in a similar situation. You can't force him to respect you. You can however control the fact that if he doesn't respect you you will have zero contact with him. He isn't going to come clean especialy as long as he doesn't respectyou. Its hard to say but pick up the pieces of your heart get them to fit back together as best as possible. Find that piece that belongs to him put it in a box and lock it. You are thinking way to much with your heart right now and like Jelly said being clingy.

Instead show him how great your life is without him. Don't be angry don't be vindictive torwards him but also don't give him the satisfaction of seeing you in pain.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> have to accept I may never get any, though *my mom insists that it will all come out in time. * The facts don't add up in my case


Everything done in the dark ALWAYS comes out in time. I think that's even a biblical scripture (not that I'm religious).

Know that. The truth ALWAYS reveals itself. Always.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Niceguy13 said:


> LnL I am in a similar situation. You can't force him to respect you. You can however control the fact that if he doesn't respect you you will have zero contact with him. He isn't going to come clean especialy as long as he doesn't respectyou. Its hard to say but pick up the pieces of your heart get them to fit back together as best as possible. Find that piece that belongs to him put it in a box and lock it. You are thinking way to much with your heart right now and like Jelly said being clingy.
> 
> Instead show him how great your life is without him. Don't be angry don't be vindictive torwards him but also don't give him the satisfaction of seeing you in pain.


You are right. I am drawing the line at the disrespect, which is why I didn't even entertain his childish and cowardly behavior with a response. I am seeing another attorney today at 4. Wish me luck!



Jellybeans said:


> Everything done in the dark ALWAYS comes out in time. I think that's even a biblical scripture (not that I'm religious).
> 
> Know that. The truth ALWAYS reveals itself. Always.


Not that it's my job to vindicate, but I really feel that there is something going on in the dark. Why else would you not even tell your best friends why you are unhappy in your marriage. I don't buy his BS about not wanting to ever say a bad thing about me. Which he has never done according to his friends. Because he knows I'm a damn good person. And he's being selfish and dragging me through the ringer.


----------



## Jellybeans

Good luck w/ the new attorney. Make sure you get all your questions answered and they are helpful.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Good luck w/ the new attorney. Make sure you get all your questions answered and they are helpful.


Yes, my mom got ahold of them and they are in a ritzy part of town. Not sure if this consultation will be free, she didn't ask. So, I hope this doesn't cost me my whole mortgage payment. But she said they sounded interested on the phone and my mom is all over this. She's coming with me. I miss my kids since I didn't see them yesterday, but I'm leaving my son with a friend and taking my daughter with, since she won't know what's going on. But my son would tell H.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> You have to stop sending those texts. Seriously. You come across as very clingy in them.
> 
> He knows you will forgive him. If he doesnt want to forgive you, that's his damn loss.


That was last Sunday night, I think. I told him he was punishing me for something and everyone will suffer. Ridiculous now that I think about it. I start to doubt that this is an EA and it's more about trust issues. But then all the red flags and the way he's acting! Ugh! 

I think he doubts I'd forgive him if I knew the TRUTH. That's why he's kept it from me so long. Last time he didn't admit anything he just gave me the speech. Then the next day I found the evidence.


----------



## Jellybeans

Make sure you find out how much the consultation is BEFOREHAND. May lawyers will do it for free. Some won't. Be sure to ask about payment plans. A lot will offer this.

Your H is being a d-uchebag. Let him go.


----------



## vivea

Lonely...What would you do if let's say he calls you today and admits he's having an affair with the OW .Would you want him back ?!
All the facts are pointing in him having an affair direction,treat the situation like he's cheating on you. The only part you're missing is him telling you this,he is not going to,as you can see a lot of people even divorce and they still won't admit it.
I'm telling you this because I can see that what bothers you is not knowing for sure...BUT you do,deep down inside you know the answer...so start treating him the way he deserves...
Stop making excuses for him,like he's depressed and confused...blah blah.All the people that cheat are in a fog but that doesn't give them a free pass.
He knows you think he's cheating,if that's not the case let him prove it...otherwise he is a cheater and that's about it. 
If it was the other way around and he thought you're cheating with someone wouldn't you do everything to prove him wrong...YES you would have....anybody that is not doing anything wrong would have.

He is a selfish bast*ard and that's about it.
Time to start a new life and if that means moving so be it,plan for it.I did it...you can too. Believe me it'll give you so much power you wouldn't believe.


----------



## tamara24

LNL,

You can not text him when you have boxing gloves on. You show him too many feelings! So what if he finds out you went to a lawyer, that just shows him you are not bluffing and movin on! 

Even if he got hit in the head with a huge rock and suddenly came to his senses. At this point,would you really want him back? In the back of your mind,you will be wondering if he will do it again. As you go through this,you are protecting your kids. Are you willing to put them through this again? I doubt it. 

If your hubby keeps asking about the neighbor, well I would have a kitchen sink with a leak about the time he comes over to get the kids. Have your flowers on the table with a missing card holder . If he accuses you,what? He has no proof! let him feel what he has put you through. Put condoms in your nightstand. If he finds them and accuses you....well since I suspected that you cheated, I wanted to be prepared incase we made up and I had not had time to get myself checked....hehe! It is petty but I think he needs a good dose of wake up call!

This is now your life. Do not sign anything or agree unless it benefits you and your children! He left. This is a consequences that he has to go through for putting your family through this. Hugs!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

vivea said:


> Lonely...What would you do if let's say he calls you today and admits he's having an affair with the OW .Would you want him back ?! All the facts are pointing in him having an affair direction,treat the situation like he's cheating on you.


Viv, you make great points. I do know, but of course I have doubts. That's probably the part of me that WANTS to believe that he wouldn't do this to us. And what for? She lives across the country. 

I am starting to let go. Hung out with my mom and a couple friends last night, ate some dinner (most I've eaten at one time in awhile), drank some margaritas, and talked about rearranging the house and packing his crap up. 




tamara24 said:


> Even if he got hit in the head with a huge rock and suddenly came to his senses. At this point,would you really want him back? In the back of your mind,you will be wondering if he will do it again. As you go through this,you are protecting your kids. Are you willing to put them through this again? I doubt it.


Like I said, I guess a part of me hopes that this isn't what's going on, but what else would explain the way he's treated me and how he's behaved. I've fought to keep him, but if he is truly cheating again, I don't know that I can get past it considering how he's emotionally manipulated me. I can't go through this again, like he said he can't go through this again. I guess that means he can't be faithful. 

I think the flower idea is a good one. Last night he called and I had my friend answer and she told him our son was over at the neighbor's house. So he had to call him to talk to our kid. Wonder how that felt. He had a vasectomy, so the condom trick wouldn't work. lol. I guess I feel like this is going to get much worse for everyone and maybe that's why I hold hope out of keeping the kids from pain. But obviously there's no hope for that. He's made his decision.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Make sure you find out how much the consultation is BEFOREHAND. May lawyers will do it for free. Some won't. Be sure to ask about payment plans. A lot will offer this.
> 
> Your H is being a d-uchebag. Let him go.


Okay, so I LOVE this lawyer, and she's a bit cheaper than other attorneys and even does a payment plan. For an uncontested divorce, she'd be $1800 flat fee plus the filing fee, which he'd pay since I'm not filing. 

She made some great points about things, and was a million times more informed than the other lawyer I saw. She told me to start a log of when he asks for the kids, when he gets them, if he's late, etc. She also said the reason he emailed me that last weekend was probably because a lawyer told him to do everything through email so there's a paper trail and he looks like a great dad. She said the 6 days of overnights every two weeks that the "court wants" is crap. Puts him right at the 146 overnights per year threshold that makes support minimal. She gave me a schedule to email to him for now and said the rest of that packet is crap and I don't even need to mention it. 

I felt more okay with everything after meeting with her. Some things she said made me want to file now and others didn't. She said that if he filed first, I wouldn't be able to move over to my mom's unless we put it in the divorce agreement. But if I moved and then filed, he couldn't do anything about it. So she told me to make it look like I'm planning to move now, like apply for jobs over there and stuff. Also the custody thing is sticky before anyone files. But I have them right now and am the primary caregiver.


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## anx

I think the advise you got was really good. Again, I suggest you flip through some of the books on divorce if you can. Its dumb that stupid legal things like when you move or how much time he spends with the kids now can greatly affect your future settlement.

Best of luck


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> I think the advise you got was really good. Again, I suggest you flip through some of the books on divorce if you can. Its dumb that stupid legal things like when you move or how much time he spends with the kids now can greatly affect your future settlement.
> 
> Best of luck


Yes, she told me to get a calendar and log how much time he is spending with them and when he's asking to have them. I can't see his original schedule going through. He wanted to have them on Thursdays at 3pm until Friday morning. Then Saturdays at 8pm until Monday morning. EVERY WEEK. Too much shuffling, and gives him every one of his days off with them (Thurs and Sun). I'm off Saturday and Sunday, and I'd only get them part of Saturday. And he'd get credit for 146 overnights a year, minimizing child support, but I'd still be feeding them and bathing and clothing them the majority of the time. Plus he lives with his parents, they have a guest room and an office. H has been sleeping in the office, but they both have to stay in the guest when there, and I don't think the courts like a boy and girl sharing the same space. And his dad smokes around the kids and H's dad also smokes pot occasionally. I'm as clean as a whistle. I get off at 3 everyday. They should be with me. I'm working on my email to him right now to suggest one weeknight visit and 2 overnight days every other weekend. We'll see how that goes over.


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, so yesterday we emailed back and forth to negotiate time sharing with the kids. He writes back one final time last night around 11, and says that he appreciates me working with him to "enable him to continue to foster a close relationship with the kids" which I'm sure he was coached to write. LOL. Then at 12:15 (after he's talked to OW and been pushed), he sends this email...

_I wanted to inquire, since you stated that you have been advised of 
certain things regarding the children, if you have looked into anything 
regarding our situation. I was wondering if you have contacted or are 
currently speaking with an attorney regarding our situation? I have 
done research, as I am sure that you have, and have also been advised 
that if at all possible, mediation is the most cost effective and least 
traumatic approach to our current situation. I did speak with a 
mediator who gave me some helpful advise on how the mediation process 
works and was informed that if both parties are willing to sit down 
together with a mediator and come to a mutual agreement on things it is 
the best option out there. Is this something that is a possibility? 
If so, please let me know so that we can work on scheduling a 
consultation together or setting up an appointment._

Are you kidding me? This man has yet to sit down and even have this conversation with me. I have given him 14 years and done nothing but try to save this marriage and he responds with this. Text messages saying he's done, and past the point of no return, and then this. Working on my response, which will be minimal and something like, "The most cost effective and least traumatic solution would be marriage counseling to reconcile the marriage. And if that's not a possibility, then the kids and I will need time to process this, just as you had 5 months to come to your decision."

What do you think?


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## LonelyNLost

Oh, and mediation before filing is really weird. I'm not telling him if I've spoken to a lawyer, that's none of his business. FYI, I'm scrounging up $1800 to hire that lawyer so that I can get the most out of this. She would go to mediation with me and do all my paperwork and give me advice. 

I believe now with the rush he's in, that the plan is for her to move here when school is out. Then they'll move in together I bet. He wants the divorce final so that he can live with her because if it isn't, he wouldn't be able to. What a jerk. He also offered to switch up when the schedule would start so that I get Easter (like he's being nice) but it's the weekend after his birthday so I bet she's coming here. Grrrr.


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## anx

> "The most cost effective and least traumatic solution would be marriage counseling to reconcile the marriage. And if that's not a possibility, then the kids and I will need time to process this, just as you had 5 months to come to your decision."


 LOL, I really like it.

You might want to say something about the OW too. IDK, it might be spiteful. "The kids will realize their dad left the family to pursue another woman. Its no secret that she is part of this decision."


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, so yesterday we emailed back and forth to negotiate time sharing with the kids. He writes back one final time last night around 11, and says that he appreciates me working with him to "enable him to continue to foster a close relationship with the kids" which I'm sure he was coached to write. LOL. Then at 12:15 (after he's talked to OW and been pushed), he sends this email...
> 
> _I wanted to inquire, since you stated that you have been advised of
> certain things regarding the children, if you have looked into anything
> regarding our situation. I was wondering if you have contacted or are
> currently speaking with an attorney regarding our situation? I have
> done research, as I am sure that you have, and have also been advised
> that if at all possible, mediation is the most cost effective and least
> traumatic approach to our current situation. I did speak with a
> mediator who gave me some helpful advise on how the mediation process
> works and was informed that if both parties are willing to sit down
> together with a mediator and come to a mutual agreement on things it is
> the best option out there. Is this something that is a possibility?
> If so, please let me know so that we can work on scheduling a
> consultation together or setting up an appointment._
> 
> Are you kidding me? This man has yet to sit down and even have this conversation with me. I have given him 14 years and done nothing but try to save this marriage and he responds with this. Text messages saying he's done, and past the point of no return, and then this. Working on my response, which will be minimal and something like, "The most cost effective and least traumatic solution would be marriage counseling to reconcile the marriage. And if that's not a possibility, then the kids and I will need time to process this, just as you had 5 months to come to your decision."
> 
> What do you think?



I like it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> LOL, I really like it.
> 
> You might want to say something about the OW too. IDK, it might be spiteful. "The kids will realize their dad left the family to pursue another woman. Its no secret that she is part of this decision."


Thanks! Well, considering that this whole finality of his decision came in the wake of me accusing and digging, not sure I should mention the OW. It is blatantly obvious, but like he keeps pointing out to me, I have no proof. It's almost like he's taunting me with that fact. I am going to just reply that. Then in court, they will see that I, in fact, have been trying to save the marriage all along. 

Something I'm not sure he realizes yet, as it is a little-known FL statute. When we appear in court, they will ask both of us if the marriage is irreconcilable. He will say yes, I will say no. Because I say no, they will issue a 3 month abatement (cooling off) period and order us to marriage counseling, especially considering that there are kids involved. This is a card I'm not putting on the table yet. This marriage is salvageable, if the OW were to get out of the picture. Problem is, I'm questioning my ability to get over this. But I sure would give it a chance. 

You know those letters in "Love must be tough"? Would it be effective for me to send one? I think this is all just a lost cause. Unless I could break up the affair. 




golfergirl said:


> I like it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I bet I get no response. Or he says, "so no comment on mediation or the lawyer." But at least he'll know that I'm not in a rush and I will drag it out. I will be finding some way to afford the attorney I saw on Friday. But he doesn't get to know that information. i haven't texted him anything but "i sent you an email." You'd be so proud of me.


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## sisters359

Does he think anyone will be fooled by all this when he ends up with OW at some point? His rush is make it seem as though he's clean, when in fact it is just about the most obvious proof you need. 

You are handling things well and as long as your emotional waffling is on this forum and not IRL (with him), then you are doing really, really well. Sounds like the lawyer is very on top of things. A few months into the separation, my kids objected to the fact that dad had more weekend time than me, so we adjusted (we filed a joint petition, worked it out ourselves). But I wanted 50/50 for their sake--anything less just didn't seem fair. I've had to step in and take more time b/c ex wasn't doing his part, and yeah, I've sacrificed $$ for time with the kids--but fortunately I am in a position where that doesn't matter and it helps the kids. I may ask for a shift in the custody agreement when we hit the 2 year mark, depending on how things continue to go. Their dad is not meeting their needs (again, that's why I've taken on more time with them despite it being 50/50 on paper). I should be documenting all this, but I just *hate* the idea of it being any type of battle--and I know he'll probably be honest about his deficiencies when the time comes as long as I don't ask for a huge increase in $$. Sad, isn't it, that for many people, it is about the $$ rather than the actual time with the kids? I pay for everything special my kids want to do--he just says, "I'm not going to pay for that." And I don't tell the kids. I figure they will find out someday, anyway, and if not, it doesn't matter. He is not a dead-beat dad, but he sure isn't as good as he wants everyone to think he is.


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## tamara24

I am not an expert on kids and divorce but let me tell you about my hubby. His parents divorced when he started his freshman year in high school. His father manipulated him into getting the phone bill and credit card bills,months before he left. Later my hubby realized it was because his dad had been seeing another woman. His mom punished him for his dad leaving until his dad offered that hubby could come live with him. Once there,hubby learned father was a huge alcoholic and he was now the parent. His father let him basically do anything because it didn't bother his life. At the courthouse the day the divorce was final,he came behind his mom who was fighting for custody. He heard her say to the attorney,I don't give a damn about the kid, I just want to take the SOB for all he is worth. So now I am the one that deals with hubby's gohsts of the past. Whatever you do,don't mention the other woman to them. As they are older/more mature,they will figure it out.

I think your comment is good, if I were you,I would get some PROOF that he is having an affair,even if it is to make you feel better at knowing. It will also show his is a liar and his credibility is out the window.hire an investigator or snope the weekend that you think she is coming into town.

Whatever you do, do not mention his bday,let him feel that you are not there anymore!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anx

I really think what you are sending him now could be that letter. I do think you need to say you know about the OW. I don't think it will be spiteful. You don't need proof; you know already. 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Get your phone records. You can usually pull every txt and call. It would be pretty obvious if they are txting or calling what is up.

Call your phone company asap and see if you can do that.


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## golfergirl

QUOTE=LonelyNLost;293574]Thanks! Well, considering that this whole finality of his decision came in the wake of me accusing and digging, not sure I should mention the OW. It is blatantly obvious, but like he keeps pointing out to me, I have no proof. It's almost like he's taunting me with that fact. I am going to just reply that. Then in court, they will see that I, in fact, have been trying to save the marriage all along. 

Something I'm not sure he realizes yet, as it is a little-known FL statute. When we appear in court, they will ask both of us if the marriage is irreconcilable. He will say yes, I will say no. Because I say no, they will issue a 3 month abatement (cooling off) period and order us to marriage counseling, especially considering that there are kids involved. This is a card I'm not putting on the table yet. This marriage is salvageable, if the OW were to get out of the picture. Problem is, I'm questioning my ability to get over this. But I sure would give it a chance. 

You know those letters in "Love must be tough"? Would it be effective for me to send one? I think this is all just a lost cause. Unless I could break up the affair. 



I bet I get no response. Or he says, "so no comment on mediation or the lawyer." But at least he'll know that I'm not in a rush and I will drag it out. I will be finding some way to afford the attorney I saw on Friday. But he doesn't get to know that information. i haven't texted him anything but "i sent you an email." You'd be so proud of me.[/QUOTE]a

I am very proud!
i
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

I would not send that message to him about MC being the less traumatic thing to do. He already KNOWS you want to save the M so you are allowing him to cake-eat even furtehr each time you offer him an olive branch to get back in.

Practically speaking, mediation IS less edxpensive than an attorney but remember, you don't have to do wahtever he thinks is best. You have your rights and your children that you need to protect. I would write him back saying something very simple such as: I will think about all of this and get back to you.

DO NOT show him your cards, or let him know you saw a lawyer, nada. Ok? He doesn't get a right to that anymore. Poker face, ok? 

I am very glad to learn you saw and spoke with a lawyer. There are many advantages to filing first. I can understand your hesitance also though since you are not the one who wants the divorce. I see both sides of it. 

As for being in court and the judge asking if it's reconiliable...it doesn't work that way usually. Usually the person who files/wanted the divorce is asked if there is hope for reconciling and they will say no. Again, Lonely, I know you love im and are feeling hurt because he rejected you but think long and hard -- why do you WANT to be with someone who could so easily walk away from you and your chidren and your marital committment? Not once, but twice. You did metnion he's been unfaithful before. Give him allllll the space he needs.


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## LonelyNLost

sisters359 said:


> Does he think anyone will be fooled by all this when he ends up with OW at some point? His rush is make it seem as though he's clean, when in fact it is just about the most obvious proof you need. You are handling things well and as long as your emotional waffling is on this forum and not IRL (with him), then you are doing really, really well.


Thanks, and yes, I'm only waffling to my friends and family and you guys. He sees none of this and really has no idea where I stand. I've been thinking a lot about him and the OW. She's got to be moving here and then how will that look? I just don't get it. Would he be that stupid?



tamara24 said:


> I think your comment is good, if I were you,I would get some PROOF that he is having an affair,even if it is to make you feel better at knowing. It will also show his is a liar and his credibility is out the window.hire an investigator or snope the weekend that you think she is coming into town.


Yes, I wish I could get some proof. But I just don't know how. The only thing I could do is put a voice activated recorder here at the house and hope he calls her while here when he comes by during lunch break (when we are gone) sometime, but I don't think he would talk on his phone. I want to prove it. But the fact that we were happy until I caught him talking to her on the phone and then all this happens is sort of enough!




anx said:


> I really think what you are sending him now could be that letter. I do think you need to say you know about the OW. I don't think it will be spiteful. You don't need proof; you know already.
> 
> Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Get your phone records. You can usually pull every txt and call. It would be pretty obvious if they are txting or calling what is up. Call your phone company asap and see if you can do that.


So should I just send what I wrote above about MC, or should I send the Love Must Be Tough letter? I don't really know exactly what to say about OW. Seems like a lost cause and would do nothing but piss him off more and push him more away. Though I don't know how that's possible!

The phone...well he covered that one. We both had Verizon and then he left in September and went to Metro PCS. I had to pay all these fees because he left early. The Metro account was in his name only. Then I switched to Metro in February, and he said they don't do joint accounts so I opened my own. Dumb me, I should have asked the lady. So I have no access to his phone bills.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I would not send that message to him about MC being the less traumatic thing to do. He already KNOWS you want to save the M so you are allowing him to cake-eat even furtehr each time you offer him an olive branch to get back in.
> 
> Practically speaking, mediation IS less edxpensive than an attorney but remember, you don't have to do wahtever he thinks is best. You have your rights and your children that you need to protect. I would write him back saying something very simple such as: I will think about all of this and get back to you.
> 
> DO NOT show him your cards, or let him know you saw a lawyer, nada. Ok? He doesn't get a right to that anymore. Poker face, ok?
> 
> I am very glad to learn you saw and spoke with a lawyer. There are many advantages to filing first. I can understand your hesitance also though since you are not the one who wants the divorce. I see both sides of it.
> 
> As for being in court and the judge asking if it's reconiliable...it doesn't work that way usually. Usually the person who files/wanted the divorce is asked if there is hope for reconciling and they will say no. Again, Lonely, I know you love im and are feeling hurt because he rejected you but think long and hard -- why do you WANT to be with someone who could so easily walk away from you and your chidren and your marital committment? Not once, but twice. You did metnion he's been unfaithful before. Give him allllll the space he needs.


I think I do need to send him the bit about MC. He has no idea where I stand and he knows he's hurt me to the utmost degree. However, it is my type of jab and would let him know that I'm not going to be like, "Okay whatever you want I'll give you this divorce and be nice to you." I'm not mentioning a lawyer or anything. I don't have to agree to mediation until the court orders it AFTER he files. She didn't say much about any advantage to filing first. I won't file. But the rarely used abatement statute I will use, and I'm not letting him know about that. The attorney said she asks me and his asks his about reconciliation. It says that if either party thinks it is reconcilable they order MC. She said she's never had someone do it, though. Not that I think it would help much at that point, but it would be worth the look on his face. 

I'm not really sure if I COULD forgive him and take him back. But I wouldn't know until that time came, if it ever did. I would want the opportunity to decide that. I spent today packing up all of our wedding mementos with a friend, and it was really sad. I took down all of our family photos and photos of him and I, and he can't fake that kind of happy. He loved me. How has this happened? How is he throwing this away? It is beyond me. And how can he not look me in the face and tell me he wants a divorce and why?


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## anx

> He has no idea where I stand and he knows he's hurt me to the utmost degree.


 Please send him a "love must be tough" type letter. Tell him you know about the affair/OW and that he isn't fooling anyone.



> I'm not really sure if I COULD forgive him and take him back.


 I really think you could. I know that doesn't mean a ton from someone on the internet.



> How has this happened?


 If he is like most men, some amount of fighting plus the difficulty of kids and a family. He decided it might be easier to leave it all and screw around. HS was probably a lot easier and simpler.



> How is he throwing this away?


 He justified it with some BS. He isn't willing to talk to anyone about it b/c he knows it sh*t and won't stand up to a simple argument. "dude, your leaving your family for some random OW that you had a crush on in HS." "oh, yeah, that does really make me a bad person doesn't it"



> And how can he not look me in the face and tell me he wants a divorce and why?


 guilt.

I think you know the answer to most of these. You just don't want to believe that your husband would want to just go easy mode and screw some **** from HS.


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## Niceguy13

LnL you are in FLA? OMG I will be moving down that way as soon as the boy finishes up with school year. My divorce will be a FL divorce mind sharing that statue with me.


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> Please send him a "love must be tough" type letter. Tell him you know about the affair/OW and that he isn't fooling anyone.
> 
> I really think you could. I know that doesn't mean a ton from someone on the internet.
> 
> If he is like most men, some amount of fighting plus the difficulty of kids and a family. He decided it might be easier to leave it all and screw around. HS was probably a lot easier and simpler.
> 
> He justified it with some BS. He isn't willing to talk to anyone about it b/c he knows it sh*t and won't stand up to a simple argument. "dude, your leaving your family for some random OW that you had a crush on in HS." "oh, yeah, that does really make me a bad person doesn't it"
> 
> guilt.
> 
> I think you know the answer to most of these. You just don't want to believe that your husband would want to just go easy mode and screw some **** from HS.


This all makes perfect sense.  Almost too much sense. Just told my dad everything and he said I just need to let go and start living like it's over. I don't think he'd want me to take him back to be honest. I'm hurting tonight. 

That all makes sense on why he has shut everyone out. It's amazing. If he's justified and knows it won't stand up, then that's what makes the guilt eat away at him? This is crazy. I can't believe my life is like this. At what point will he realize his mistake? When it's too late? I just feel in my heart that I need to do more. I'm praying like crazy and staying out of his way. Maybe I'll write out one of the Love Must Be Tough letters and leave it in his truck or give it to my son to give him on Tuesday. It is all just so painful. If I give him permission to go, then will he just run off?!


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## LonelyNLost

Niceguy13 said:


> LnL you are in FLA? OMG I will be moving down that way as soon as the boy finishes up with school year. My divorce will be a FL divorce mind sharing that statue with me.


Don't you have to live here 6 months before you can file for divorce? Might be awhile before you get to that point. Not sure about that statute, but that it's little known and rarely used. And by the point that they'd order marriage counseling, it doesn't really do any good. But it will be fun.  You'd have to ask an attorney about it, and I even got two different answers from two different attorneys. Not much online about it. If you type in abatement, it talks about child support abatement, but not divorce proceeding abatement. Good luck!


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## Niceguy13

Legally we are residents of FL. We are/were a military family so we are currently residing in Japan but our "residencey" is in FL. BTW got some great news about to type it up and put in my thread. Ok may be not great but it was hillarious. Lets just say she is going to be married to me a lot longer then she thought she was mwahahahahaha


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, I emailed him back about the kids. But I haven't responded to the one asking if I had spoken to a lawyer about our situation. I think I'll send the bit about MC, and see if he responds. Then I'll go into the OW bit and tell him the kids will know the truth as soon as this relationship goes further. And that I deserve a face to face meeting for him to tell me what he wants. He makes me sick, he really does. 

anx- I think I might hand write him one of the Love Must Be Tough letters and have my son give it to him tomorrow night. I don't know if it will do anything, probably not, but I need to say my piece. I am letting go, I have no other choice. I told my dad all about everything last night, he knew nothing. He didn't even know about the EA years ago. He sounds like he wants me to just move on and not look back. It's so hard, but I am kicking into survival mode.

Niceguy - I wish you luck. I didn't read your story. I'll go look for it. Sucks to be the one wanting to save your marriage, doesn't it?! I think I deserve the truth from my H, but I think he's missing his balls or something.


----------



## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, I emailed him back about the kids. But I haven't responded to the one asking if I had spoken to a lawyer about our situation. I think I'll send the bit about MC, and see if he responds. Then I'll go into the OW bit and *tell him the kids will know the truth as soon as this relationship goes further. * And that I deserve a face to face meeting for him to tell me what he wants. He makes me sick, he really does.


You don't know how the judge will look at this. If I were you, I wouldn't put it in writing.


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## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> You don't know how the judge will look at this. If I were you, I wouldn't put it in writing.


Right, well I wouldn't put it like this. Especially not in writing. I would write it out in a very well-planned out wording. I know I will see every word in writing in the future. That's why I'm asking for marriage counseling now.


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## anx

I think the only hope you have is to let go with as messed up as he is right now.

The book didn't say this, but what I gathered was we have to love like god loves us. Give him his freedom and to make whatever choices he wants to. His sin and consequences will be clear to him when you aren't holding him back. When his kids cry when they are around him, it will be his own fault not yours.

He has already run free unfortunately. 

He'll realize when he finally stops lying to himself. People can live in sin for years, but the guilt he has is put there by his moral conscience and he can't run from it.


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> I think the only hope you have is to let go with as messed up as he is right now.
> 
> The book didn't say this, but what I gathered was we have to love like god loves us. Give him his freedom and to make whatever choices he wants to. His sin and consequences will be clear to him when you aren't holding him back. When his kids cry when they are around him, it will be his own fault not yours.
> 
> He has already run free unfortunately.
> 
> He'll realize when he finally stops lying to himself. People can live in sin for years, but the guilt he has is put there by his moral conscience and he can't run from it.


In the email reply I sent last night, I included a bit about how the kids are struggling and I asked him to see if his health insurance covers any sort of family counseling for them. I told them that our son spoke with the school psychologist and she shared some things with me that really hurt. I know I probably shouldn't have, but I told him the kids have said some things that are painful to hear. He needs a reality check. 

You are correct though, he has to stop lying to himself. As convincing as he is, his actions speak a whole other story than what he tells me and others. There's really .000001% of a chance that he's being faithful based on his lies and actions. I wish it were different, but it's not. It's the only thing that explains his actions. I do have to let him go. Not sure if he'll ever come back, but I can't take any more pain, and neither can the kids. They don't cry around him, they come home and cry to me about how they miss our family being together. Everything is fun when they are with him (except my daughter, who asks for me constantly and cries at night for me). I hope it pains him in the heart.


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## anx

I think your letter really needs to point that out. It doesn't have to be super detailed about it, but be clear that he is cheating and its hurting the kids a ton. Nothing spiteful or mind games or whatever. You both weren't perfect in the run up to this, but you've been the faithful wife. He's been the shady / cheating husband. Be blunt and concise.

Biblically and realistically, you don't have to take him back. It would be a 2nd chance (or 5th or whatever it is) that he doesn't deserve nor do you have to give.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I think I do need to send him the bit about MC. He has no idea where I stand and he knows he's hurt me to the utmost degree.
> 
> The attorney said she asks me and his asks his about reconciliation. It says that if either party thinks it is reconcilable they order MC. Not that I think it would help much at that point, but it would be worth the look on his face.


The only thing about this is: Imagine you get to court and you say, Yes, our marriage is reconciliable! to the judge and they ask your hub and hub says "No it's not." And then judge may order MC. Can you imagine going w/ him while he's rolling his eyes at you and saying how ridiculous it is that he even has to be there, that he doesn't want MC, taht he doesn't want to be married to you? It would hurt 10x worse and make you out to look very desperate/clingy.

RE: the letter. If you write him a letter I think it should express hwo you love him, how you are willing to work on the marriage, but it takes two to do that, that you won't live in an open marriage and that you are letting him go. Then you can leave a little door open saying that if he decides he wants to work on the marriage with you, you would be open to doing that but as the relationship stands, you won't stay in it like it is currently (translation: I am not going to put up with your cake-eating).



LonelyNLost said:


> This all makes perfect sense.  Almost too much sense. Just told my dad everything and he said I just need to let go and start living like it's over. I don't think he'd want me to take him back to be honest. I'm hurting tonight.


Your dad sounds like a smart man who cares about you. About giving your hub "permission"--you can't look at it ike that. He is an adult responsible for his actions. If he WANTS to work it out with you, he will. That is why you must give him what he wants--let him go. If he runs off into the sunset with the skank wh*re, then he wasn't worthy of you anyway. It means he couldn't even honor is committment to you and his duties as a father. Why would you want to be w/ someone like that?

Re: whether he feels guilt or not... hard as it is, don't try to read his mind. There is no way to tell waht he's feeling but I have no doubt he will experience regret/remorse over his selfish actions at one point in time. Who's to say when though? It's his problem, not yours. You aren't the one who wanted out. He has decided for you. Accept that.



anx said:


> I think the only hope you have is to let go with as messed up as he is right now.
> 
> The book didn't say this, but what I gathered was we have to love like god loves us. Give him his freedom and to make whatever choices he wants to. His sin and consequences will be clear to him when you aren't holding him back. When his kids cry when they are around him, it will be his own fault not yours.
> 
> He has already run free unfortunately.
> 
> He'll realize when he finally stops lying to himself. People can live in sin for years, but the guilt he has is put there by his moral conscience and he can't run from it.


Agreed. I'm not very religious but read something once about the Prodigal Son I will post for ya since I think it's relevant to your situation:

_My Husband Wants to Divorce Me
by Alisia Solorzano 
(Fort Walton Florida USA) 

Question: My husband wants to divorce me. Hi I have been married for 13 years to my husband and we have been through a lot he has cheated on me before but I have forgave him because I love him and moved on well now we have this problem again he met a girl a work and thinks he is in love with her and now tells me he wants a divorce well I don't I still love him I know this must sound stupid but I do and I don't know what to do i don't want to let him go. I have been praying and praying for God to make him see he is making a mistake but am I being wrong for acting this way I love him we have a 14 year old son that is his but I have raised since he was 8 months old and I love him like he is mine I just need advice please.

Answer: Hello Alisia. We are sorry to hear that your husband wants a divorce. And we know this may not be what you want to hear but you must let him go. If you look at the situation rationally, letting him go is the only logical thing that you can do. After all, you can't force him to stay with you and you can't change his heart. Only God can change his heart. So, let him go and trust God to take care of you. Focus your attention on the Lord and renew your relationship with Him. Allow God to love you and build your self-esteem back up. Next, seek out individual counseling for yourself and for your son. Pray not just for your husband to return but pray also for his salvation. Be encouraged and continue to trust God. Nothing is impossible for Him! He can even restore a relationship after divorce. Be blessed.

We love you and will be praying for you.

In Christ,
Mike and Wanda

UPDATE: We recently received a comment from another site visitor regarding our response to Alisia. Frankly, our response of "let him go" concerned her. As a result, we felt we should elaborate on our answer a bit more for the sake of all our readers.

Our response of "let him go" is based on two Biblical scriptures/principles. First, in the story of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:12), the father never attempts to convince his son to stay, he let his son go and trusts God to bring Him back. The Bible does not say that the father prayed for his son but we like to think that he did. The prayers of the righteous really do have much power, even when the one you love decides to leave. 

As you know, the story of the Prodigal Son is really a tale about us and our Heavenly Father. When we rebel against Him and go our own way, He doesn't force us to stay with Him but at the same time, He NEVER gives up on us. He let's us go our way and waits for us to return. And most times, like the Prodigal Son, we return after we hit rock bottom.

Secondly, the Bible also tells us that if we are married to unbelievers that wish to leave, let them go. Why? because Christ is calling us to live in peace. Here is the exact Scripture: "But if those who are not believers decide to leave, let them. When this happens, the Christian man or woman is free. But God called us to live in peace " 1 (Corinthians 7:13-15). Again, this is only IF the spouse WANTS to leave.

The lesson in both of these Scriptures is that we are not to put ourselves in a place of opposition with others but in a position of trusting God to bring about reconciliation. Only God has the power to change a person's heart, not us. 

Does "let go" mean "give up?" no. And we probably should have made that clear in our response -- "letting go" doesn't mean "give up". 

So, NEVER give up! But do let go IF and only IF the person wants to leave. That is what the Bible tells us to do. Continue praying for their salvation as well as for the restoration of the marriage. Wait on them like God always does with us. And when they return, accept them back without condemnation like the father did the Prodigal Son.

God has the power to bring any marriage back together! Let me say that again, God has the power to bring any marriage back together! But we have to know when to take our hands off and let God be God. Is it easy? no. Does it hurt? yes. Is it scary? yes. But it's what the Word of God instructs us to do. We can't live in fear. We must be obedient to the Word of God and trust God fully.

Hopefully, all of you have a better understanding of our position according to Scripture. 

With Christ's Love,
Mike and Wanda_

http://www.christian-marriage-today.com/my-husband-wants-to-divorce-me.html


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> The only thing about this is: Imagine you get to court and you say, Yes, our marriage is reconciliable! to the judge and they ask your hub and hub says "No it's not." And then judge may order MC. Can you imagine going w/ him while he's rolling his eyes at you and saying how ridiculous it is that he even has to be there, that he doesn't want MC, taht he doesn't want to be married to you? It would hurt 10x worse and make you out to look very desperate/clingy.


Well, it's FL statute, not mine! Probably why it is seldom used. I don't think it could hurt any more than being told he wants a divorce without using the word divorce or saying it to my face. I really think I'd get great pleasure in dragging him there. Plus time would be on my side, and I'd be able to say that I tried EVERYTHING. Plus it will drive the OW crazy! 




> RE: the letter. If you write him a letter I think it should express how you love him, how you are willing to work on the marriage, but it takes two to do that, that you won't live in an open marriage and that you are letting him go. Then you can leave a little door open saying that if he decides he wants to work on the marriage with you, you would be open to doing that but as the relationship stands, you won't stay in it like it is currently (translation: I am not going to put up with your cake-eating).


Yes, I think this is what I did in the epic long letter, but I will work on short and concise and share it with you all and let you pick it apart.  I really like the letters in Love Must Be Tough, so I'll use that as a framework.




> Your dad sounds like a smart man who cares about you. About giving your hub "permission"--you can't look at it ike that. He is an adult responsible for his actions. If he WANTS to work it out with you, he will. That is why you must give him what he wants--let him go. If he runs off into the sunset with the skank wh*re, then he wasn't worthy of you anyway. It means he couldn't even honor is committment to you and his duties as a father. Why would you want to be w/ someone like that?


My dad was a little upset that I had never said anything to him. And I haven't talked to him in a few months. True story: My dad was actually my stepdad when I was around 10, and he adopted me as his own. He and my mother got together by cheating on their spouses. They ended up marrying. The marriage didn't last long because he was so worried about her cheating, which she did end up doing. I think last night's conversation really hurt him, because he's never heard from the heart of the betrayed woman, but he has listened to his own heart as the betrayed man and the loyal man. Interesting.




> Re: whether he feels guilt or not... hard as it is, don't try to read his mind. There is no way to tell waht he's feeling but I have no doubt he will experience regret/remorse over his selfish actions at one point in time. Who's to say when though? It's his problem, not yours. You aren't the one who wanted out. He has decided for you. Accept that.


I do think he feels guilty, everything he's doing is just covering that up. His best friend says all this anger is a result of the guilt. He says my H is miserable, but he's trying to pretend. I know I can't get in his head and understand completely, but it is easier for him not to see me because it hurts and reminds him what a ********* he is. I really feel like he knows he's done something he sees as unforgivable. He doesn't want me to know the truth because he doesn't want to cut me again like he did before. So he's in "lie till I die" stage right now. He figures he's got a better chance with her than he does with me, because at least she admires him and doesn't know about all his flaws. She represents high school days, and no responsibility. 

Thanks for the post on the prodigal son and the advice to the woman. My mom left me a book called "The Praying Wife" and it is written under this premise I believe. I've been a little more at peace the last few days I think. I know I have to let go and I'm working on doing that. I have a counseling session tonight. Not sure what her advice will be since last time it was "do nothing". Now what?! I will write him a letter and then leave it at that.


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## Jellybeans

PLEASE post the letter here before you give it to him so we can give you advice on it, ok?  

IC is a good thing and awesome you are doing that.

Again, stop trying to read his mind. Trying to make sense of a wayward's shenanigans will cause you more confusion than necessary (plus it won't answer anything). You can rationalize the irrational.

Oh, your sentiments about him feeling like he's done so much wrong and it's unforgivable and there's now ay for him back make total sense to me. Reason: because a lot of waywards have the "scorched earth" mentality. They think, how badly can I screw this up so there will be no way in hell of going back... that coupled with their guilt and the fact that they KNOW they screwed up, makes it seem impossible for them to turn back and work on their committment so instead they hop into a new relationship, spending no time working on themself, thinking the problem is the relationship when really they must look inward, not think they can get what they are seeking (happiness/peace?) from a new shiny relationship. The old issues will crop up in the new relationship, guaranteed, if he doesn't take time to work on it and sort himself out. Trust.

Your last letter--uh uh. It did not convey something you wanted it to. It was too long and did not do waht it was meant to. Know that.

So write up a draft if you want and we'll offer advice/support on what you can say  The less you say, the BETTER for you.


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## Jellybeans

Lonely, read the chapter of Love Must Be Tough titled "Opening the Cage Door" when you get a few minutes. It's got some good info in there.


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks, jelly. I will work on the letter and post it here. And I will check out that chapter again before writing it. The scorched earth mentality definitely sounds like him. Being the second time and all, he feels he's done too much wrong. I can sense that in the "I'm the bad guy, I'll take the fall" type messages he sends.

So last night he replies about the kids and says that he can't get them on Thurs the 28th, but doesn't say why. But he says he will pick them up that Saturday the 30th as usual. I'm trying to figure out what the plans are. Obviously it has to do with her coming here or him going there. Remember how he "gave" me Easter weekend? So he's off on the 24th, and doing something on the 28th. Hmmmm. I'd love to bust him "in the act". LOL. Her kid's spring break is the 18th-24th. I'm thinking...


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## turnera

It's none of your business now, unless you're planning to use that info to get proof and try to stop the affair.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, jelly. I will work on the letter and post it here. And I will check out that chapter again before writing it. The scorched earth mentality definitely sounds like him. Being the second time and all, he feels he's done too much wrong. I can sense that in the "I'm the bad guy, I'll take the fall" type messages he sends.
> 
> So last night he replies about the kids and says that he can't get them on Thurs the 28th, but doesn't say why. But he says he will pick them up that Saturday the 30th as usual. I'm trying to figure out what the plans are. Obviously it has to do with her coming here or him going there. Remember how he "gave" me Easter weekend? So he's off on the 24th, and doing something on the 28th. Hmmmm. I'd love to bust him "in the act". LOL. Her kid's spring break is the 18th-24th. I'm thinking...


Make note of that - hmm already ditching kids. My ex used to do that - my lawyer said to enjoy the extra time with the kids and that I was under no obligation to trade to accomodate him. It was different story if it was discussion to trade to accomodate special occasion but ditching them and expecting another day - nope. Not saying that's what he's doing but keep in mind. He sounds like eventually he'll be difficult just to annoy you eventually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> It's none of your business now, unless you're planning to use that info to get proof and try to stop the affair.


Yes, I'd love to stop the affair. Especially since he's been rubbing it in my face that I've been digging and found nothing. I still hold a sliver of hope that if he were to snap out of the fog he'd realize what he's doing. But then I doubt my ability to be happy knowing what he's done to our family. I'm sort of letting go, but still holding on a little. Working on that... 




golfergirl said:


> Make note of that - hmm already ditching kids. My ex used to do that - my lawyer said to enjoy the extra time with the kids and that I was under no obligation to trade to accomodate him. It was different story if it was discussion to trade to accomodate special occasion but ditching them and expecting another day - nope. Not saying that's what he's doing but keep in mind. He sounds like eventually he'll be difficult just to annoy you eventually.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, he didn't ask for another day. And when I told him I was taking the kids to Disney on his birthday, I offered to let him have the day after. I have been recording pick up times and the like. He is insinuating in his last email that I'm telling the kids bad things about him because my daughter walked out and told him, "mommy don't like you". But I sat and listened to her talk to him last night and tell him that he makes mommy said and she wants bubba, daddy, and momma together.  I don't know if he understood her. He asked her if she was sad and she said she was and he told her to go give momma hugs.


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## LonelyNLost

So I sent the reply message about marriage counseling being the least traumatic and most cost effective option yesterday morning at 8am. He read it at 1:15pm and no reply. LOL. 

He came and picked up the kids for ice cream at 6pm, I walked out with them and handed him her cup and he looked startled. Then, while they were gone, he texts me, "She looks more and more like you every day. Would you like anything?" REALLY? I just responded, "No thank you. I'm good." What is he doing? Then he drops them off, and again I startle him when I walk out and he actually drove to our neighbor's house, the one he's been avoiding. Neighbor called me later and said he is completely shut down and won't say much. I guess he asked him what was going on with everything and if he's moving out and he said, "Yeah, I'm done." And that was it. Wouldn't say why or anything, but he knows the neighbor talks to me. Just all so surreal. 

I'm working on my last letter. I'll post it for you guys soon.


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## Syrum

Good luck Lonely.


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## tamara24

IMO, if I suspected he was having an affair an he kept denying it, I would get a sitter and literally watch his house. (Rent or borrow someone else's car so he wouldn't recognize you). I would wait until they went to a resturant, take some pics and then I would walk right up to him and her and say,hi, I am ----,his wife. Are you the the woman who broke up our marraige and our family? Well, I am here to tell you, you can have him. Then I would look at him and say,now I have proof and walk off.

I would not let this man tear up my family and insist that I am a fruitcake for thinking he is cheating. You deserve better than that!

I know I sound vindictive, but the way he thinks he is pulling off this charade just is so cowardly!when you head to Disney,wave, as you will be going right by my home! sending you hugs and prayers!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

That's what I was thinking, too.


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## LonelyNLost

Syrum said:


> Good luck Lonely.


Thanks, I appreciate it. I think I'm in a much better place emotionally now. I can sit back and laugh at some of this now. Still hoping for the truth, but I've reached acceptance that I may never get it. 




tamara24 said:


> IMO, if I suspected he was having an affair an he kept denying it, I would get a sitter and literally watch his house. (Rent or borrow someone else's car so he wouldn't recognize you). I would wait until they went to a resturant, take some pics and then I would walk right up to him and her and say,hi, I am ----,his wife. Are you the the woman who broke up our marraige and our family? Well, I am here to tell you, you can have him. Then I would look at him and say,now I have proof and walk off.
> 
> I would not let this man tear up my family and insist that I am a fruitcake for thinking he is cheating. You deserve better than that!
> 
> I know I sound vindictive, but the way he thinks he is pulling off this charade just is so cowardly!when you head to Disney,wave, as you will be going right by my home! sending you hugs and prayers!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's awesome. I just don't know when she'd come into town, and his parent's house is 30 minutes from my home. I'd be like a stalker. Plus, I highly doubt he would have her in town and staying with him at his parent's. They are enablers, but I doubt to that extent. Just wish I could figure out the plans. I've got some ideas for calling her salon and trying to make an appointment to see if she's working so I can narrow things down. 



turnera said:


> That's what I was thinking, too.


You're thinking I should stalk him?


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## turnera

If you know or think he's meeting her, either follow him yourself, or get a friend to follow him, with a camera.

If you find out it IS an affair, you can expose it to his and her family and you have at least a fair chance of ending the affair. Once he's away from his heroin, his head may start to clear of the affair fog and he may come to his senses and realize what he's done.

Unless you're just ready to divorce and move on.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> If you know or think he's meeting her, either follow him yourself, or get a friend to follow him, with a camera.
> 
> If you find out it IS an affair, you can expose it to his and her family and you have at least a fair chance of ending the affair. Once he's away from his heroin, his head may start to clear of the affair fog and he may come to his senses and realize what he's done.
> 
> Unless you're just ready to divorce and move on.


Trying to figure out how I could possibly do this. I really do think it's an affair, it's hard to believe it couldn't be with the way he's acting and shutting everyone out. It has to be the fog. His best friend and my mom and friends keep telling me that I know enough to upset me and if I keep digging anything else would hurt me further and do no good. But I do feel like if I had absolute proof it would snap some reality into him. Especially since he keeps taunting me with, "you dig and dig and you have NOTHING. You believe what you want but you have no proof!" 

I have come to accept that I am probably getting divorced. I'm not really okay with that, but what choice do I have? I just don't know what to do at this point. I have this burning desire for answers, although there might not be any right now.


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## turnera

Spend some of his money to hire a PI first.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Spend some of his money to hire a PI first.


Yeah, no money. And my guess is that his paycheck won't go in the account tomorrow. I'm pinching every penny I can to pay for the attorney I want. I opened up my own bank account yesterday that I'll slowly start using as my own.


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## tamara24

You are not a stalker, you are his legal spouse. You have every right to know what your husband is doing. He is taunting you and making you feel bad for questioning him on his fidelity. Make a list of hotels, and search them for his car. He is not going to show his parents what a jerk he is,but he has to leave to meet her sometime. Would she be flying in? Check the airlines and find out what flights are coming in from her state. Then go from there. Get a sitter and be vigilant. Don't let him taunt you!

Your family does not want to see you hurt and yes, it may hurt more to see him with her. But would you want to know and have your piece of mind back? Do you want to always wonder? It might also give you the strength to get through this because you will KNOW for sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anx

Were you able to get your phone records. Its messed up that he taunts you like that.


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> Were you able to get your phone records. Its messed up that he taunts you like that.


Nope, he has his own phone account. Convenient, huh?! 




tamara24 said:


> You are not a stalker, you are his legal spouse. You have every right to know what your husband is doing. He is taunting you and making you feel bad for questioning him on his fidelity. Make a list of hotels, and search them for his car. He is not going to show his parents what a jerk he is,but he has to leave to meet her sometime. Would she be flying in? Check the airlines and find out what flights are coming in from her state. Then go from there. Get a sitter and be vigilant. Don't let him taunt you!
> 
> Your family does not want to see you hurt and yes, it may hurt more to see him with her. But would you want to know and have your piece of mind back? Do you want to always wonder? It might also give you the strength to get through this because you will KNOW for sure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, she lives in Las Vegas, so there are probably tons of flights into our large town daily. She is a hairdresser though, so the only thing we could do is call and try to make appointments with her on certain days and see if they say she is on vacation. That's all I got for ideas. I also thought about asking him if he wants to see them on Easter and see what he says since he "gave" me that holiday. I come home every day expecting to see that he's taken all his stuff while I was at work. Tomorrow he is off work, so he could come then. My daughter isn't feeling good either, so I hope she's fine tomorrow. Sucks to not have another parent around!


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## tamara24

Ummm, he moved out,he no longer lives there. He has stated he no longer wants to be married. That sounds to me like you need to change the locks.

If he says anything, I would say well I came home from work and it felt like some of my things were messed up,for instance, my nightstand. I know you wouldn't do it and it bothers me that I am here alone so I changed the locks to keep my family safe.

You have to play hardball. He isn't talking, he taunts you,and comes into your home and invades your privacy yet lies to protect his own. You need to protect yourself, start thinking.chheck your olderphone bills,there still might be older texts/phone calls. Check the computer history as far as you can. There are only so manyairlines that fly here fom Vegas,you can get the info if you are determined.

Don't be a victim,be proactive. A wise person by the Name of Turnera had to beat me over the head with this,myself. She is one smart cookie and once you take control, you will feel so much better!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Ummm, he moved out,he no longer lives there. He has stated he no longer wants to be married. That sounds to me like you need to change the locks.
> 
> If he says anything, I would say well I came home from work and it felt like some of my things were messed up,for instance, my nightstand. I know you wouldn't do it and it bothers me that I am here alone so I changed the locks to keep my family safe.
> 
> You have to play hardball. He isn't talking, he taunts you,and comes into your home and invades your privacy yet lies to protect his own. You need to protect yourself, start thinking.chheck your olderphone bills,there still might be older texts/phone calls. Check the computer history as far as you can. There are only so manyairlines that fly here fom Vegas,you can get the info if you are determined.
> 
> Don't be a victim,be proactive. A wise person by the Name of Turnera had to beat me over the head with this,myself. She is one smart cookie and once you take control, you will feel so much better!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The attorney said I can't legally change the locks until he files. And he hasn't actually said to ME that he doesn't want to be married, which in itself is a whole other story. He did tell our neighbor, which he knows talks to me, that he is "Done. Burnt Out." But that's the closest we've got to asking for a divorce besides the emails asking if I'd go to mediation. 

He's only had MetroPCS since like Sept and it's all online. I think I'm out of options there. And I wouldn't even know how to narrow down the flights. I would be living at the airport, lol. Or following him around for days. I'm still thinking on that. And he'd say he isn't taunting me, but I think he has, and it borders on bullying. So disrespectful. But I guess him asking if I wanted ice cream last night makes up for that.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> The attorney said I can't legally change the locks until he files. And he hasn't actually said to ME that he doesn't want to be married, which in itself is a whole other story. He did tell our neighbor, which he knows talks to me, that he is "Done. Burnt Out." But that's the closest we've got to asking for a divorce besides the emails asking if I'd go to mediation.
> 
> He's only had MetroPCS since like Sept and it's all online. I think I'm out of options there. And I wouldn't even know how to narrow down the flights. I would be living at the airport, lol. Or following him around for days. I'm still thinking on that. And he'd say he isn't taunting me, but I think he has, and it borders on bullying. So disrespectful. But I guess him asking if I wanted ice cream last night makes up for that.


Play dumb. Change locks and if asked - you lost key so had to. That's what my sleazy lawyer told me. That's if he dares even ask.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

So show some self-respect and WALK AWAY.


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## LonelyNLost

I just know him really well. Well, the real him. His best friend knows him well too. He agreed with me that changing the locks would make things really ugly. I am sort of sick of coming home each day and wondering if his stuff will be gone. I am thinking about spending this Sunday purging his stuff. Then I could change the locks and his stuff would already be boxed for him in the garage. Just seems so final, but it would send a big message. 

I am showing self-respect by letting go and not letting him reel me in. I am standing firm, but the door is open just a little bit. I won't slam it shut just yet, but I'm walking away from it.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I just know him really well. Well, the real him. His best friend knows him well too. He agreed with me that changing the locks would make things really ugly. I am sort of sick of coming home each day and wondering if his stuff will be gone. I am thinking about spending this Sunday purging his stuff. Then I could change the locks and his stuff would already be boxed for him in the garage. Just seems so final, but it would send a big message.
> 
> I am showing self-respect by letting go and not letting him reel me in. I am standing firm, but the door is open just a little bit. I won't slam it shut just yet, but I'm walking away from it.


Ugly as in he won't offer you ice cream anymore? Just kidding - you know him best. Just a thought - do what's best for you - not him. One thing that keeps niggling at me - are you scared of him? Not losing him but scared he could flip and hurt you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Ugly as in he won't offer you ice cream anymore? Just kidding - you know him best. Just a thought - do what's best for you - not him. One thing that keeps niggling at me - are you scared of him? Not losing him but scared he could flip and hurt you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha, thanks for the laugh. I still can't for the life of me figure out why he sent that text?! "Sure, I'd like a waffle cone with a scoop of divorce with your balls on top!" WTF? I am reaching that point of doing what's best for me. 

I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and I know I'll be fine. Will it be easy? No. But there's hardly any hope left for us, and the hardest part is accepting that and being at peace with never understanding what happened. 

I am not scared of him. I think I'm scared of damaging any type of relationship with him to the point of it making me sick to see him. We are tied together for life, which is something he's yet to really realize. He has always been very sensitive and gentle with me. He would never hurt me physically, I know that for sure. I know he still loves me, and he probably misses me though he'd never admit it. But his selfishness trumps all that right now. And that's not someone I can let in my life right now. My turn to be selfish!


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, this is the letter from "Love Must Be Tough". I'm not sure I like all of it, though the basic idea is good. What do you guys think?

_H, I’ve been through some very tough moments since you decide to leave, you know. My love for you is so profound that I just couldn’t face the possibility of life without you. To a person like me who expected to marry only once and to remain committed for life, it is a severe shock to see our relationship begin to unravel. Nevertheless, I have done some intense soul searching, and I now realize that I have been attempting to hold you against your will. That simply can’t be done. As I reflection our courtship and early years together, I’m reminded that you married me of your own free choice. I did not blackmail you or twist your arm or offer you a bribe. It was a decision you made without pressure from me. Now you say you want out of the marriage and, obviously, I have to let you go. I’m aware that I can no more force you to stay today than I could have made you marry me in 2000. You are free to go. If you never call me again, then I will accept your decisions. I admit that this entire experience has been painful, but I’m going to make it. The Lord has been with me thus far, and He’ll go with me in the future. You and I had some wonderful times together, H. You were my first real love, and I’ll never forget the memories that we shared. I will pray for you and trust that God will guide you in the years ahead._


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## vivea

OMG what are you guys trying to do to me today. 
Lonely I like the idea of it but you're making it a little too good for him.It's great that you feel that you can forgive him because ultimately that is what you're trying to say to him BUT don't make him feel OK about this whole thing.He hurt you ,lied ,cheated,was really mean to you....you should let him know before you let him off the hook.He needs to know how much he Ef'd up.Just because you can't hold him against his Will doesn't mean he had the right to do what he did...you know. 
You should tell him you will let him go but not because HE doesn't want the relationship anymore but because YOU don't want it ,you don't want it with a person that can easily slam the door on his family without even looking back.Of course don't say it literally like that but make your point that it's all about you now.

If you tell him you forgive him ,let him know you do it for yourself not for him because it was not OK the way he treated you.


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## Jellybeans

I do love that letter from Love Must Be Tough. 

You could change it to use your own words/what sounds like you.

It has the right idea--if someone doesn't want to be with you, let them go.


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## LonelyNLost

vivea said:


> OMG what are you guys trying to do to me today.
> Lonely I like the idea of it but you're making it a little too good for him.It's great that you feel that you can forgive him because ultimately that is what you're trying to say to him BUT don't make him feel OK about this whole thing.He hurt you ,lied ,cheated,was really mean to you....you should let him know before you let him off the hook.He needs to know how much he Ef'd up.Just because you can't hold him against his Will doesn't mean he had the right to do what he did...you know.
> You should tell him you will let him go but not because HE doesn't want the relationship anymore but because YOU don't want it ,you don't want it with a person that can easily slam the door on his family without even looking back.Of course don't say it literally like that but make your point that it's all about you now.
> 
> If you tell him you forgive him ,let him know you do it for yourself not for him because it was not OK the way he treated you.


Yeah, I do think it's a little too nice for my taste. I just don't know how to tweak it to let him know that I am letting go. I was reading this blog yesterday, it was call the Magic of Making Up or something, and it said the first thing to do in a break up is to go along with it. I guess the idea of not being able to have what you want on his part, then makes him question it all. I thought about acknowledging that I wasn't really happy and he's done things that have betrayed my trust and I saw as disrespectful. But it's a fine line between telling him it's all good and we can be friends and divorce, and letting him know that I've let him go because right now he's not the one for me, and the cage door is open. 



Jellybeans said:


> I do love that letter from Love Must Be Tough.
> 
> You could change it to use your own words/what sounds like you.
> 
> It has the right idea--if someone doesn't want to be with you, let them go.


Yeah, trying to figure out how to tweak it. I can make it sound like me, no problem, but not sure what else I want to convey. Like do I mention the OW being a part of it all?


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## Jellybeans

You could say something along the lines of: I will not stay in this marriage as the status quo, and I will not live in a marriage with a third person involved therefore I am letting you go. I want a relationship where committment is 100% and if you decide you can do that, then we can talk. If not, in the meantime, I am not going to stay like this anymore.

That lets him know you aren't going to put up w/ his cake-eating and that you KNOW you deserve better than the crumbs and BS he's offering you.

*Lonely--my siituation was similar to yours--he kept denying the third party/affasir so what I wrote to him was something along the lines of: 'I realize now that it's your decision what kind of relationships you choose to have w/ other people. That is your decision to make...'

And then I told him how the buck stopped here and I was done w/ the relationship as-is, that it takes two to work on a marriage, that I wanted 100% and nothing less and that I was letting him go if he couldn't give me that.


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## anx

I like the letter a lot. You could change the wording or tone, but I doubt a slight change in tone will change the outcome. I approve of what you wrote. 

You might want to add something about the OW or that you know he is doing it now or in the near future. Its not a secrete and the kids will realize.

Either way though is fine I think.

Best of luck.


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## LonelyNLost

Ugh, he just picked up our son in front of the school. I get all anxious when I know he'll be around. But instead of staying in my room, I walked him out and then went the other way. Didn't get as close as I did the other night, but he still had to have seen me. 




Jellybeans said:


> You could say something along the lines of: I will not stay in this marriage as the status quo, and I will not live in a marriage with a third person involved therefore I am letting you go. I want a relationship where committment is 100% and if you decide you can do that, then we can talk. If not, in the meantime, I am not going to stay like this anymore.
> 
> That lets him know you aren't going to put up w/ his cake-eating and that you KNOW you deserve better than the crumbs and BS he's offering you.
> 
> *Lonely--my siituation was similar to yours--he kept denying the third party/affasir so what I wrote to him was something along the lines of: 'I realize now that it's your decision what kind of relationships you choose to have w/ other people. That is your decision to make...'
> 
> And then I told him how the buck stopped here and I was done w/ the relationship as-is, that it takes two to work on a marriage, that I wanted 100% and nothing less and that I was letting him go if he couldn't give me that.


This is where I have to tread lightly and word carefully. I basically said in the last epic letter the bit about how it's his decision to make about who he will be friends with but how it disappoints me to feel second best. I have to be careful not to make mine sound like an ultimatum either. Just not sure how to acknowledge the fact that there are too many red flags to ignore and he's "burnt out and done". Coincidence? I think not. 




anx said:


> I like the letter a lot. You could change the wording or tone, but I doubt a slight change in tone will change the outcome. I approve of what you wrote.
> 
> You might want to add something about the OW or that you know he is doing it now or in the near future. Its not a secrete and the kids will realize.
> 
> Either way though is fine I think.
> 
> Best of luck.


My only fear about saying that I disapprove of his relationship with this ex girlfriend and how I know it's played a part in his decision to leave the marriage and the kid will realize the truth, is that I'm afraid of how that might look in court. Like could he make it look like a threat?! I just don't know how to word it in a nonthreatening way. I'm still in the drafting stage. I'd like to get it to him by this Saturday evening when the kids go with him.


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## WhereAmI

Personally, I like the first letter without adding anything about the affair. When you add the affair it turns into an accusation and not a "farewell, I'm letting you go, I know I'll survive" letter as I think it should be. If this were an NC letter I'd say to add in parts about the affair.


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## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> Personally, I like the first letter without adding anything about the affair. When you add the affair it turns into an accusation and not a "farewell, I'm letting you go, I know I'll survive" letter as I think it should be. If this were an NC letter I'd say to add in parts about the affair.


Well, I am letting go, but not because I want to. I'm letting him know he's free to go or stay. But I'll be fine either way. I wouldn't like this to be a farewell letter. We are already NC for the most part. I'm just turning this over to God. I can't do anymore at this point, I've given it my all. The only thing I could do was try to figure out a way to prove the affair, but it would only cause more damage in the process.


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## LonelyNLost

I am going to freaking lose it! Grrrr. Today was his day off. He's been sneaking over here while I'm at work. He did the cleaning last week, and other times he tries to make it look like he hasn't been here but I can tell. Well I just got home. Guess what's missing?! The motorcycle seat that I was planning on taking and hiding. He has a truck and a motorcycle. He bought a nicer seat that he keeps on the bike but it only seats one. He has the original seat in the garage, which seats two. He's swapped it out when he takes me out or when he takes my son down the street. I just said yesterday to our neighbor that I should take that double seat and hide it just in case she comes for a visit and he wants to take her out. I can not believe that that's the only thing missing. He came in the house too, because I never shut the door to the laundry room and he does and it was shut. I'm fuming. I've got to bust this wide open!


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## Jellybeans

Lonely, re: the letter... remember the LESS you say, the better.

So he took his little seat prob for his little affair.

Change the locks on the door and move on like he is.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Lonely, re: the letter... remember the LESS you say, the better.
> 
> So he took his little seat prob for his little affair.
> 
> Change the locks on the door and move on like he is.


The thing is, I guarantee you he didn't think I'd notice. I want to point it out to him. It's taking all my willpower right now not to text him, "Interesting choice of item to take from the house." What a jerk. There's no explanation except for that he's giving someone a ride on his bike. I KNEW she was coming into town. 

I will draft up the letter I want to send and share it here first. I promise.


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## Jellybeans

Well, whether you noticed or not, he took it. 

DO NOT text him. 

You are still reacting emotionally to him. You need to stop doing that. He has made his choice. It isn't about you. Let him do whatever the hell he wants. He does not have your best interest anymore at all.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Well, whether you noticed or not, he took it.
> 
> DO NOT text him.
> 
> You are still reacting emotionally to him. You need to stop doing that. He has made his choice. It isn't about you. Let him do whatever the hell he wants. He does not have your best interest anymore at all.


No, he doesn't have my best interest at heart, but this is pretty blatantly obvious. He needs to know I'm onto him. I need to figure out how to expose the affair. That pretty much solidifies my suspicions that she's coming to visit for his birthday or shortly thereafter.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> No, he doesn't have my best interest at heart, but this is pretty blatantly obvious. He needs to know I'm onto him. I need to figure out how to expose the affair. That pretty much solidifies my suspicions that she's coming to visit for his birthday or shortly thereafter.


Play dumb! Don't say anything. You have a better chance of catching him if he thinks you're oblivious. Change locks! He has his privacy you deserve yours. What if he cleans you out of something of value
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BIP

Dear LNL,
I am new to the site, and found your earlier posts about a week ago. I felt like you were writing FOR ME; almost exactly what I'm facing right now. We separated about a week ago, and I'm trying the 180 (thanks to your posts, I learned about it). I just skipped ahead on your thread, and I'm devastated!! What an ASS! How can he throw it all away so quickly?
All the advice you have received has been helpful to me, so thank you EVERYONE. This is the first thing I've written, but felt compelled to tell you LNL that you are NOT alone, and , thank you, neither am I.


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## LonelyNLost

BIP said:


> Dear LNL,
> I am new to the site, and found your earlier posts about a week ago. I felt like you were writing FOR ME; almost exactly what I'm facing right now. We separated about a week ago, and I'm trying the 180 (thanks to your posts, I learned about it). I just skipped ahead on your thread, and I'm devastated!! What an ASS! How can he throw it all away so quickly?
> All the advice you have received has been helpful to me, so thank you EVERYONE. This is the first thing I've written, but felt compelled to tell you LNL that you are NOT alone, and , thank you, neither am I.


Sad, isn't it? Welcome to TAM. I'm amazed at how quickly my situation has deteriorated. I hope your situation turns out better. Post your story, we are a lovely group here in the "Going through divorce or separation" section.  I've given up. There's no hope for my husband and I. I have to accept that.


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## LonelyNLost

We ended up having another "Text message terrorism" session. What is with him?! He has nothing to say to me, can't sit down and face me and tell me he wants a divorce, but he can email and text message all day long. I texted him to have our son call and he did. I just asked what he was up to and told him I found his jacket in the garage. Then he gave the phone to our daughter. She asked if I was sad and I told her I was a little mad. She asked if I was mad at daddy and I said not really. She then wanted me and got upset and I told her I'd see her in a little while. We hang up and this is the message I get:

H: I really don't know what is being said about me and I honestly don't care what anyone thinks about me, but it bothers me that she (daughter) is constantly telling me you don't like me and that ur mad at me. I have not said one negative thing about you to anyone yet I know I have been bashed on facebook and I really am scared what these kids are hearing. Now I have her crying, telling me ur mad at me and u don't like me again. I know you hate me and ur pissed at me and you and all ur friends and support can call me every name in the book on facebook, i don't really care, but please don't drag me thru the mud to the kids. If what you say about me makes you feel better or whatever that's great, but the kids deserve to love and have a father that loves them. I thought we were both bigger than that. We need to sign up for this coping class because I thought we were not supposed to say negative things about each other to the kids yet you tell her ur mad at me. 

Me: Actually you can assume whatever you want but I am not saying negative things about you. Believe what you want to believe. She tells me you don't like me either.

H: If you wanna sling names and stuff instead of doing it online and having ur friends and family join in why don't you all confront me with it. if i got something trust the fact you will hear it from my mouth. You can call me spineless and no balls and whatever you want online, you can all laugh and giggle. Just know it doesn't faze me. I find humor in the games. Feel free to tell ur friends and family to message me and let me know how they feel. As long as the kids dont get dragged into the mud slinging I truly don't give a damn what you or anyone else thinks about me. If it helps you cope amd move on more power to you. Have a great night. Please understand we had an 8:00 call agreement and she was and is all upset right now during what little time I have with them. (he is returning them at 7:30 so not sure what he means.)

Me: I will never be anything but truthful to my kids but they don't need to know about grown up issues. Glad u care enough to spy on me online and draw conclusions. Not sure what 8:0 has to do with this. Ur bringing them home at 7:30. And I can talk to kids whenever just as you can.

H: I'm not spying on you online at all, the info was relayed to me. I'm over it. If you wanna be "truthful" to the kids do it when they are old enough to understand things. She is 3, she doesn't need to hear that u are mad at me she doesn't understand. 

Me: I have never once said what I felt to her. She doesn't understand why her family is broken up and her dad has moved away. The kids will figure it out in time. 

H: Because you called and she got all upset. Its whatever. Again, you and all ur friends and family can call me every name in the book, just know u r all welcome to contact me directly and play the same mud slinging name calling games like an adult. She doesn't even need to hear ur mad at me or u don't like me or I don't make you happy, she doesn't understand that stuff. Do what you do to cope. I'm sure the kids will figure it out, they will hear plenty, hopefully it doesn't effect my relationship w them and hopefully you help them realize i do love them.

Me: she got upset because she misses me. Didn't you hear her on the phone the other night saying she wanted her family together? She is mourning. Everything isn't about you.

H: I think they deserve to know that I love them and will always be a father to them. They will always be a priority in my life. You may not feel as though I deserve that but they do and that is what you need to keep in mind. You can hate me all you want, but they don't need to with you. I never said it was about me. I am about my kids though, I love them, and I will always do all I can for them. Feel free to bash me to everyone u know just keep those negative feelings from influencing the kids view of me please. I may not deserve it in ur eyes but they do. 

Me: They want to realize you love them but they don't understand why you lfet. I'm here to pick up the pieces while you fulfill your fantasies.

H: Its funny how you feel like you know everything. Fulfill my fantasies?? Run with it, ur right. I'm done with all that. It's about the kids and ONLY the kids.

Me: I'm not influencing their view of you they form that on their onw. enjoy riding ur bike w whoever while I'm dealing with his meltdowns and tantrums and her stuttering.

H: Feel free to discuss all that with ur friends family and support online. We will not discuss that. I'm no on trial. 

Me: Oh you're pleading the fifth. Interesting item to take from the house today. Have fun! Vroom vroom!

H: Enjoy riding my bike with whoever??? What the hell r u talking about? Nevermind, I don't care what ur talking about. I will help with the kids as best as I can from where I am at. I will contact benefits about counseling for them. I will give u all pertinent info. I took quite a few things today. I will gladly remove all my items as soon as you want them out. Let me know. (he didn't take anything but the seat, I know. And his crap will probably be on the lawn on Saturday when he comes to pick the kids up.) I took my seat cus I was going to take our son for a ride on Sunday. Think what you want, i tall makes me laugh.

Me: I'm not okay with that. And where will daughter be?

H: It's funny how you think you know everything but you know so little. Its all good though. I don't ahve to defend myself. I wasn't going to take him far, around the neighborhood, and if u r not good with it I won't. She would be here. I was going to take him for a ride to a park by the house and have a little one on one with him. No worries though, apparently you knew my intent. 

Me: Then why are you so quick to defend and then run off like a bat out of hell? Ur actions speak volumes. I know you better than you think. Goodnight. Drive safe. 

H: No worries, I won't take him on my bike. Great job assuming what you wanted. I will be there Sat. at 6:05. LMAO, you don't know me at all. I don't have to nor do I feel the need to defend myself to you at all. You think what you want, I'm good with it. 

Me: Ur right about one thing I DON'T know this version of you. And I don't want to think anything I want to KNOW the truth but I will probably never get that from you. 

H: I have said what I have had to say, you have thought what you wanted to think the truth is what you want it to be. This is no longer a topic of conversation between us. You have drawn ur conclusions, publicized them to anyone and everyone that would listen, and played the bash me game. You win. I fold, I'm done with it and moving on with my life accepting what is. We are irreconcileable, I have been judged by a jury of ur choosing and will never allow myself the awkwardness of being around any of those who have judged me. I know how you all feel about me. It's evident. 


And I didn't respond anymore. I'm not telling him how I feel. It doesn't matter. Rings are off. I don't care. He's a flaming a$$hole and I hope his soul burns with the guilt of what he's doing and done. I have never sad a negative thing about him or told the kids what I think is going on. I have only told my son that I want to work on the marriage but daddy is angry with me and doesn't want to work on the marriage. And that's it.


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## DelinquentGurl

I guess I don't understand what all this fighting via text is supposed to do for either of you. Does it make you feel better? I'm assuming it makes you feel worse. I know when my H & I text fight it makes me feel like sh*t.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

DelinquentGurl said:


> I guess I don't understand what all this fighting via text is supposed to do for either of you. Does it make you feel better? I'm assuming it makes you feel worse. I know when my H & I text fight it makes me feel like sh*t.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I HATE it. He ropes me in every damn time. I started off short on words then I jabbed. My friend was with me and got me all riled up. I blame her. It all makes me feel like crap. He must feel better because it's like venting. I vent to others, he doesn't vent to anyone. It's all bottled up.

This is the only communication there is. He hasn't even sat down and talked to me about us in over a month. It's all by text. Some was by phone about 3 weeks ago. This is how he communicates with me apparently. This is how he tells me he wants a divorce without saying the word. Only other communication is emails, and those are all nicey nicey about the kids for court records. Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. He's so angry!


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## Jellybeans

lonely...he only ropes u in because u let him. This was def a setback. DO NOT text him again. Seriously. Heis lashing out because the realityof him leaving. Is starting to surface...hence why he says he won't allow himself to be in front of ur friends...its that scorched earth thing we talked about. He is gone. Do not engage him. Its the best thing u can do for u.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Ugh! So the OW's divorce is final as of yesterday. She changed her name back to her maiden name. So it's just like high school now. I also noticed he had two new facebook friends. Guess who they are? The OW's MOM AND DAD! Oh yeah, it's nothing, they barely talk.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> lonely...he only ropes u in because u let him. This was def a setback. DO NOT text him again. Seriously. Heis lashing out because the realityof him leaving. Is starting to surface...hence why he says he won't allow himself to be in front of ur friends...its that scorched earth thing we talked about. He is gone. Do not engage him. Its the best thing u can do for u.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah I know it was a setback. I just don't get why he's so angry and throwing it all in my face. Then my son says that he was mad at me because I wanted to talk to the kids. He said to his mom, "My WIFE thought it would be a good idea to talk to the kids so now daughter is upset." Nothing to do about the scorched earth thing. I don't know this guy!


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## Deejo

You have fully moved into the 'Toxic' zone.

There is nothing here to expose ... not anymore.
There is a point where an affair stops being an affair and becomes a relationship. There is no fog. There is no delusion.

Your marriage is over. It. Is. Over. I don't say that with any joy, but I know what a dead in the water marriage looks like - I was in one, and frankly it was never as bad as what you have going on.

Even if you could get back together, it would be an incredibly bad choice.

You consistently use the words, crazy, unbelievable, and ridiculous ... to describe him.

This isn't about him any more. Those words can also be applied to you. It's painful to watch you do this to yourself.

I'm not saying you need to like what is going on, but you do need to accept it ... and stop letting it absolutely consume you.

You need to let this guy go. 

The only person you harm at this point by continuing to harbor this need to engage, is yourself.

You need to continue IC, and find a way to let go of this 'thing', whatever need it is that you have to hang on and burn whatever chance you have of simply being civil, to the water line.


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> He needs to know I'm onto him.


 Why?


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## vivea

Yes lonely...honey...stop doing this to yourself. 

I have to tell you one thing ...My H. separated from me not because of OW,there was no OW...now that we are getting back together is really hard for me and I don't even have to fight the demons of an affair. I can't imagine what it would be if there was actually OW .
When H. separated from me I was ready to accept anything , at these desperate times you think you want them back no matter what they've done to you.now that he wants to be back together my thinking has changed. It is extremely hard to even forget how easily he threw me under the bus for his own selfishness .....I can tell you now that if there was another woman in the picture I know for sure i wouldn't have been able to forget and forgive. I thought I could have before but now that I have him back it's extremely hard. I actually had thoughts to tell him i'm not getting back with him quite a few times.

What I'm saying is that you might think now that you want him back BUT i can tell you YOU don't.Believe me,getting back together with him will make you miserable.He's done way too much damage to you and your precious kids. Please stop hurting yourself.


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## turnera

Are you working with your IC on your need to push things?


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## BIP

You are enabling HIM to play the victim! STOP texting. Block his texts (your phone company provides this service to parents for their kids, but use it for yourself.). Tell him when he can call to speak to the kids. Set a schedule. Tell him when he can speak to you on the phone. AND tell him when he can not (ie. after 10PM, etc.) block his number. Gain some control over your own situation. Don't allow him to interfere and provoke you at any time. Don't be so available! 180 . . . do it for yourself.


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## golfergirl

BIP said:


> You are enabling HIM to play the victim! STOP texting. Block his texts (your phone company provides this service to parents for their kids, but use it for yourself.). Tell him when he can call to speak to the kids. Set a schedule. Tell him when he can speak to you on the phone. AND tell him when he can not (ie. after 10PM, etc.) block his number. Gain some control over your own situation. Don't allow him to interfere and provoke you at any time. Don't be so available! 180 . . . do it for yourself.


You do realize he is setting you up possibly for majority if not sole custody. Reading the message from an outsider, he's in control asking you not to bad mouth him listing many examples where you do. And you don't really deny it. You justify it and you even kind of admit to some of it. He totally set you up there. He isn't your puppet master and you do have control and responsibility over your own actions and you could have chosen to disengage at any time especially text messaging and not in a face-to-face heated debate. Before you do that again - look at big picture, and see this man is out to get you. And not to hurt you, you do kind of blame him to your kids in a backhanded way. You could have simply responded to your daughter you were sad because you missed her.
And finally please remove the kids from the middle. Don't quiz them and react to what's happening at dad's and please don't use them as letter deliverers or messengers. You send letter through son, dad reads it - gets annoyed or pissed off or even sad. Your son takes the blame on himself. Your kids have the right to visit and enjoy time with each parent and feel free to love them without guilt. You are coming close to crossing that line. Regardless of what ex does, you are responsible for you. I do think you'd benefit greatly from a parenting after separation seminar. Trust me backing off in that angle was the hardest thing I did in first marriage but once I learned the technique, it was a great benefit to them in their healing process. Someone wise once told me kids see themselves as half mom and half dad. Showing hatred or blame to either puts it on the kid as they do identify themselves with both parents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Neil

Can you do this one thing.

STOP TEXTING.

Change your cell phone number, DO NOT give it him. IF he wants to speak about the kids, he has to ring... THE House phone, or email.

The one thing he knows you get drawn into is by text message.

Remove it.


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## DelinquentGurl

Deejo said:


> You have fully moved into the 'Toxic' zone.
> 
> There is nothing here to expose ... not anymore.
> There is a point where an affair stops being an affair and becomes a relationship. There is no fog. There is no delusion.
> 
> Your marriage is over. It. Is. Over. I don't say that with any joy, but I know what a dead in the water marriage looks like - I was in one, and frankly it was never as bad as what you have going on.
> 
> Even if you could get back together, it would be an incredibly bad choice.
> 
> You consistently use the words, crazy, unbelievable, and ridiculous ... to describe him.
> 
> This isn't about him any more. Those words can also be applied to you. It's painful to watch you do this to yourself.
> 
> I'm not saying you need to like what is going on, but you do need to accept it ... and stop letting it absolutely consume you.
> 
> You need to let this guy go.
> 
> The only person you harm at this point by continuing to harbor this need to engage, is yourself.
> 
> You need to continue IC, and find a way to let go of this 'thing', whatever need it is that you have to hang on and burn whatever chance you have of simply being civil, to the water line.


I completely agree. I know it isn't easy, and it hurts like h*ll, but you are continuing to do this to yourself.
Do you seriously think that after all that has happened you could really go back? You won't be able to get past all that has happened.

You are acting irrational and I totally understand...your hurting...bad. But you HAVE to let him go. Your holding on to nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

BIP said:


> You are enabling HIM to play the victim! STOP texting. Block his texts (your phone company provides this service to parents for their kids, but use it for yourself.). Tell him when he can call to speak to the kids. Set a schedule. Tell him when he can speak to you on the phone. AND tell him when he can not (ie. after 10PM, etc.) block his number. Gain some control over your own situation. Don't allow him to interfere and provoke you at any time. Don't be so available! 180 . . . do it for yourself.


We don't have a home phone, so my phone is the only way to get ahold of him. We did set a schedule. I am not engaging in anymore of this. I'm done. 



golfergirl said:


> You do realize he is setting you up possibly for majority if not sole custody. Reading the message from an outsider, he's in control asking you not to bad mouth him listing many examples where you do. And you don't really deny it. You justify it and you even kind of admit to some of it.
> And finally please remove the kids from the middle. Don't quiz them and react to what's happening at dad's and please don't use them as letter deliverers or messengers.


There isn't any sole custody where we live, just shared time. He's already agreed to my schedule, and the texts can't be used in court. That's why the lawyer said to use email. He tried this crap by email this weekend and I didn't respond, which is why he got worked up I guess. I am not questioning the kids, they tell me things on their own. I just asked my son what my daughter was saying and he told me and then told me what H responded. So to nip this whole issue in the bud, I'm going to give him a little advice on how to deal with her comments and leave it at that. I never had him deliver a letter, I would just hand it to H. I'm thinking about walking out and hopping in his truck when he comes to pick the kids up on Saturday and having my friend stay with them. We need to talk.




Neil said:


> Change your cell phone number, DO NOT give it him. IF he wants to speak about the kids, he has to ring... THE House phone, or email.
> 
> The one thing he knows you get drawn into is by text message.


Yeah, no home number. So he needs it to talk to the kids. I am done texting about these things. I felt like I was being attacked, and I guess it was because I hadn't responded to these accusations via email, which I will now do. He just needs something to be angry about.




DelinquentGurl said:


> I completely agree. I know it isn't easy, and it hurts like h*ll, but you are continuing to do this to yourself.
> Do you seriously think that after all that has happened you could really go back? You won't be able to get past all that has happened.


You're right. I'm done. He is being a big jerk and I don't deserve this. I will never understand. My friend thinks I could get the truth out of him if I sat down with him face to face but I don't think so. He's so shut off it's impossible.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Deejo said:


> You have fully moved into the 'Toxic' zone.
> 
> There is nothing here to expose ... not anymore.
> There is a point where an affair stops being an affair and becomes a relationship. There is no fog. There is no delusion.
> 
> Your marriage is over. It. Is. Over. I don't say that with any joy, but I know what a dead in the water marriage looks like - I was in one, and frankly it was never as bad as what you have going on.
> 
> Even if you could get back together, it would be an incredibly bad choice.
> 
> You consistently use the words, crazy, unbelievable, and ridiculous ... to describe him.
> 
> This isn't about him any more. Those words can also be applied to you. It's painful to watch you do this to yourself.
> 
> I'm not saying you need to like what is going on, but you do need to accept it ... and stop letting it absolutely consume you.
> 
> You need to let this guy go.
> 
> The only person you harm at this point by continuing to harbor this need to engage, is yourself.
> 
> You need to continue IC, and find a way to let go of this 'thing', whatever need it is that you have to hang on and burn whatever chance you have of simply being civil, to the water line.


I am letting him go. I thought he was softening up a bit and would be civil, but apparently everything I do or don't do pisses him off. I think he was mad because when he went to the house yesterday all the pictures of him were taken down. Idk. He's being plain ugly now. I am not going to engage in his text message terrorism. He can just keep sitting and wondering if I'm mad or sad or hurt or whatever. I am in disbelief that he can't even be civil to me. Is telling the truth really that scary? He has a total of 68 facebook friends, and of those, one is OW, one is her son, two are her brothers, two are her parents, and one is her best friend. Sure, they never talk and it's "nothing". I guess it's just going to have to be blatantly obvious. Because he's going to "lie till he dies". 




vivea said:


> What I'm saying is that you might think now that you want him back BUT i can tell you YOU don't.Believe me,getting back together with him will make you miserable.He's done way too much damage to you and your precious kids. Please stop hurting yourself.


I know. This is the theme. I give up. It's about the kids now, and that's it. I will not let him disrespect me and berate me any longer. I am going to let him know by email or in person that he may speak to me or email me but my phone is not for him to text me with his vents.


----------



## Jellybeans

Stop looking at his Facebook. Seriously.

Stop text messaging him about anything unreleated to co-parenting. 
Let him go off on his tangents about how he's been painted as this monster and whatnot. Let him say whatever the frick he wants. 

You need to stay above it, show him who's the adult here. He is done and gone now.

Right now you are reeling from feeling rejected, it's totally natural, but one day you are going to look back and wonder why you were even clinging so hard to be in a relationship with a man who has cheated on you more than one and who so callously walked out on you and your children.

It's awful and it hurts. He has shown you who he is though. His character is shining through.

You deserve so much better. So don't stoop to his level and engage in these "text message terrorism wars." Let him feel the fallout of his actions. Let him spew about hwo everyone thinks he's so awful and how he is sooo over it and whatnot. DO NOT ENGAGE him. Let him talk as much sh*t as he wants. He has to lie to himself to justify his ugly actions. It's sad, really. But again, it's not your problem. One day he will realize the damage he's caused but again, it's not your problem, Lonely.

PROTECT YOURSELF. What is going on w/ your lawyer????


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Stop looking at his Facebook. Seriously.
> 
> Stop text messaging him about anything unreleated to co-parenting.
> Let him go off on his tangents about how he's been painted as this monster and whatnot. Let him say whatever the frick he wants.
> 
> You need to stay above it, show him who's the adult here. He is done and gone now.
> 
> Right now you are reeling from feeling rejected, it's totally natural, but one day you are going to look back and wonder why you were even clinging so hard to be in a relationship with a man who has cheated on you more than one and who so callously walked out on you and your children.
> 
> It's awful and it hurts. He has shown you who he is though. His character is shining through.
> 
> You deserve so much better. So don't stoop to his level and engage in these "text message terrorism wars." Let him feel the fallout of his actions. Let him spew about hwo everyone thinks he's so awful and how he is sooo over it and whatnot. DO NOT ENGAGE him. Let him talk as much sh*t as he wants. He has to lie to himself to justify his ugly actions. It's sad, really. But again, it's not your problem. One day he will realize the damage he's caused but again, it's not your problem, Lonely.
> 
> PROTECT YOURSELF. What is going on w/ your lawyer????


Thanks. And you're right. The proof is in his actions and how he continues to text and act all shady. He obviously cares about what people think. I do need to let him know what is NOT being said to the children and give him some advice about how to respond to our daughter's comments. Instead of discussing with her when she says, "Mommy doesn't like you" he just says, "yeah I know." Which paints me negatively. I am doing right by my kids, and haven't said anything negative about him except that our issues aren't about them. Daddy has issues with mommy but not them, and we'll be okay. 

I haven't retained the lawyer. Not until he files. Once I get served I will have to get the money to hire her. Right now he's just throwing around things like going to a mediator and parenting class because he's looking into the process, but he hasn't actually filed. Soon, though, I'm sure. I just can't believe that he's going to divorce me without ever having sat down with me and telling me he wants a divorce.


----------



## anx

> So the OW's divorce is final as of yesterday. She changed her name back to her maiden name. So it's just like high school now. I also noticed he had two new facebook friends. Guess who they are? The OW's MOM AND DAD!


 

Its hard to read this. My heart goes out to you.


----------



## Jellybeans

Lonely -- I also had to stop looking at H's facebook. I just couldn't do it anymore. The last time I did I saw OW was back on his page and...had a pic of him in the background. I asked him the last time we hung out if he was involved with her and he said NO. I didn't mention the picture. Thee pic was somewhere from nowhere from where he said he'd hung w/ her before. So in that moment I knew he was never going to tell me the truth. 

And that was it. Never looked at his FB again. 

I would be cautious what you say to him. Because like another poster mentioned, he could try to use it against you re: custody and the divorce. 

At this point you need to accept he may never tell you face to face he wants a divorce, not in those words, but via his texts, he's made it clear he wants out by saying he's "done" and "over it." Believe him.


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> Its hard to read this. My heart goes out to you.


I know. How can he sit and insist that I just don't trust him and I believe what I WANT to believe and that they are just friends? It is so obvious.  It took all my willpower not to message her parents and let them know that he is married and their daughter is a homewrecker. 

What other explanation can there be for this?!


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I would be cautious what you say to him. Because like another poster mentioned, he could try to use it against you re: custody and the divorce.
> 
> At this point you need to accept he may never tell you face to face he wants a divorce, not in those words, but via his texts, he's made it clear he wants out by saying he's "done" and "over it." Believe him.


Yes, I am wording things carefully. I was advised this by the attorney I saw. 

He has to know that my spineless comment on fb (which was no doubt relayed to him by his mom or he logged into her account) is about him not having the balls to tell me to my face he wants a divorce. My friend thinks he wouldn't be able to say it. I know what he means. But deep down I don't think that's what he wants. He'll realize it one day but it will be too late. 

So any use in sending the "letting go" letter?! Since he is so freaking angry and hates me? I think it's pointless. No use in further communication with him.


----------



## Jellybeans

I would not send him a letter now since you guys had a blow out last night. It wouldn't do any good. You have to get really quiet, unemotional and be mysterious for a little bit before you send that thing. 

STOP posting anything about him on your FB. STOP looking at his "page."


----------



## LonelyNLost

I can't see anything on his page except his profile picture and his friends. And I blocked his family from seeing my wall. I don't really post anything about him, just inspirational quotes for myself. The one he is referring to was from Monday. I just posted "spineless" and then my friends responded with "what happened now?" and I just replied, "nothing. Same old shenanigans. Seeing how many synonyms I can think of." and then they posted "ball-less" and other things. He just assumed I was talking about him. LOL. 

I get what you are saying. I need to pull way back, which I have been. Even in the text conversation I didn't respond much compared to all he was doing. I do have to address the issue with speaking to the kids and things. I feel like I need to communicate that. But that's all it will be about. I guess I won't even mention the OW's family or that I think she's coming to town. I do want to walk into his work with his car key and ask him to trade me for mine. I feel like he gets all his privacy and I get none.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> It took all my willpower not to message her parents and let them know that he is married and their daughter is a homewrecker.
> 
> What other explanation can there be for this?!


Well, if you follow the MB plan for ending an affair, to which I've alluded before, you WOULD be contacting them to let them know. That's how you end affairs - by exposing them so the cheaters can't pretend their relationship is legitimate. 

You obviously want him back, so what have you got to lose? Call his family, her family, his other important friends, and tell them what you know, even if you don't have the proof. Ask them to help by talking to him. Ask her family to talk to her.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I can't see anything on his page except his profile picture and his friends. And I blocked his family from seeing my wall. I don't really post anything about him, just inspirational quotes for myself. The one he is referring to was from Monday. I just posted "spineless" and then my friends responded with "what happened now?" and I just replied, "nothing. Same old shenanigans. Seeing how many synonyms I can think of." and then they posted "ball-less" and other things. He just assumed I was talking about him. LOL.


And you weren't?

That's a high school antic, and you know it. I'm not surprised he blew up at you about it. You're making fun of him on the Internet.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Well, if you follow the MB plan for ending an affair, to which I've alluded before, you WOULD be contacting them to let them know. That's how you end affairs - by exposing them so the cheaters can't pretend their relationship is legitimate.
> 
> You obviously want him back, so what have you got to lose? Call his family, her family, his other important friends, and tell them what you know, even if you don't have the proof. Ask them to help by talking to him. Ask her family to talk to her.


I don't have anything to lose, and I really don't think I could be happy with him again after all this. But I need closure, and I guess I have this need to find proof. I understand I might not ever get that, but at this point it seems so blatantly obvious and he's taunting me and trying to make me seem crazy. I know that it needs to be exposed to stop the affair, but everyone I've talked to (including his mom and his best friend) acknowledge that something fishy is going on, but they won't confront him. No one will talk to him because he's shut everyone out. I tried messaging her ex husband but he didn't seem to care. But he did go to her with it because it got back to my H and this is when he said he was done with me. I think I was getting too close to the truth and I FORCED him to choose.



turnera said:


> And you weren't?
> 
> That's a high school antic, and you know it. I'm not surprised he blew up at you about it. You're making fun of him on the Internet.


I use my facebook to vent. There should have been no way for him to even see it, that was his choice to snoop. It's not high school, or making fun. It was me venting. I found my friend's responses funny. Maybe he can relate since he's the one living in his high school fantasy right now.


----------



## Jellybeans

Lonely, if he never admits it to you, you are just going to have to live w/ the fact he is not going to tell you teh truth.

I too wanted my ex to tell me what was what but he refused and there was nothing I could do about it--it was his choice. the being lied to after the fact hurt me more than the actual cheating, to be honest with you. 

I ust had to accept he wouldn't ever be honest w/ me. That is their problem, not ours. 

Let him go. Seriously. The sooner, the better for you.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Lonely, if he never admits it to you, you are just going to have to live w/ the fact he is not going to tell you teh truth.
> 
> I too wanted my ex to tell me what was what but he refused and there was nothing I could do about it--it was his choice. the being lied to after the fact hurt me more than the actual cheating, to be honest with you.
> 
> I ust had to accept he wouldn't ever be honest w/ me. That is their problem, not ours.
> 
> Let him go. Seriously. The sooner, the better for you.


I'm realizing that. I don't think he'd ever admit it. For several reasons. But you are right, the fact that he has manipulated me so much when I'm onto him is what hurts the most. He has to live with that, not me. I can go forward with a clear conscience. He can't say the same.


----------



## turnera

Someone last year had tons of proof that her husband cheated. She presented it to him. He told her she was crazy and left her. Then he divorced her. Not once did he ever admit it. She moved back to Canada (she was in the States for his work) with their child and started her life over. As far as I know, he never did admit it or ever discuss it with her again.

That's just what happens some times.


----------



## Jellybeans

There was someone else on this board where his wife did the same thing. He has sooo much evidence, including pictures and everything and she flat out said it wasn't true to him with a straight face.

It's amazing when you think about, the kind of mentality that has to go into lying even in the face of actual 100% proof.

Right now it hurts so much, Lonely, but you will look back one day and wish like hell you woulda let go a lot sooner. I still remember things I did and said that I wish I could take back. LOL.


----------



## LonelyNLost

I couldn't imagine keeping up that lie? Why? What is there to gain? You live with the guilt and think you are protecting that person? I can see not knowing forever, but he is just not that smart. And I think a lot of this is him hiding behind emails and texts. He can't look me in the eye and lie. One of these days I'm going to walk out and hop in his truck and tell him we need to talk. I deserve that much. But right now, I'm moving on and steering clear.


----------



## Jellybeans

Don't try to rationalize the irrational, Lonely.. It gets you nowhere fast and will leave you more confused and w/ unanswered questions.

DO NOT hop in his truck. At all.

Check it out... he's not even man enough to look you in the eyeball and let you know what is going on ad tell you to your face these things. He's a little boy. LET ...HIM... GO.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Don't try to rationalize the irrational, Lonely.. It gets you nowhere fast and will leave you more confused and w/ unanswered questions.
> 
> DO NOT hop in his truck. At all.
> 
> Check it out... he's not even man enough to look you in the eyeball and let you know what is going on ad tell you to your face these things. He's a little boy. LET ...HIM... GO.


You don't think we should ever talk? EVER? What do you suggest I do from this point forward? Box up his stuff and put it neatly in the garage but not tell him? Forward the bills to his parent's house for a dose of reality? Cut him off my car insurance and use my new bank account? Ask for some money for child support? Just cut him out of my life? Just not sure how to proceed from here. 

He is a little boy. He is telling himself I'm ignoring him so that's the reason he doesn't want to talk. He is running away from reality. The way I look at it, I have nothing to lose. Why shouldn't I call the OW and have a nice little chat?


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> You don't think we should ever talk? EVER? What do you suggest I do from this point forward? Box up his stuff and put it neatly in the garage but not tell him? Forward the bills to his parent's house for a dose of reality? Cut him off my car insurance and use my new bank account? Ask for some money for child support? Just cut him out of my life? Just not sure how to proceed from here.
> 
> He is a little boy. He is telling himself I'm ignoring him so that's the reason he doesn't want to talk. He is running away from reality. The way I look at it, I have nothing to lose. Why shouldn't I call the OW and have a nice little chat?


Has he always been like that? Why not block your number and phone the salon with fake name trying to get appointment on Easter weekend? Try for Saturday before and narrow it down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

No. I didn't say you should not talk to him ever. I said you should let him go since he wants out. And that you should only discuss co-parenting w/ him at this point. Nothing else.


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Has he always been like that? Why not block your number and phone the salon with fake name trying to get appointment on Easter weekend? Try for Saturday before and narrow it down.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL, I like how you think. This has been my idea all along. Even pulling a "My friend came in at the end of February and loved the haircut she got. I can't remember the girl's name though. Oh, yeah, maybe that's her, can you see if she was there on February 25th?" Then I'm getting an idea of what went on during his 5 days away, and then once I "get her name" I can try to make an appointment with her for Easter weekend. Then I can call back and try to change it to one of the other dates, like the 28th (day he can't get the kids). Hmmmm. 

gg, this is nothing like the man I married. Like any guy, he doesn't like relationship talks, but he's always been so reassuring and sweet and sensitive and would just pour words of affection out at me. I really think that he's telling himself he is over it all, but he's not convinced. I guess his way of telling me that was by saying he knows the kids are hurting, "as I am and I'm sure you are too".


----------



## WhereAmI

Your husband is out of control. Usually I have a level head and wouldn't stoop to playing games, but if your husband was mine I'd send him a message saying, "Please let OW know I blocked her from my facebook. If she EVER contacts me again calling me names and threatening me I will get a restraining order. Please don't allow her near our children." Then, I wouldn't reply to any damn thing he said. I'd love to put doubt in his mind that this woman is someone who is stable. 

That said, I've been having some anger issues lately so you may not want to follow my lead. LOL


----------



## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> Your husband is out of control. Usually I have a level head and wouldn't stoop to playing games, but if your husband was mine I'd send him a message saying, "Please let OW know I blocked her from my facebook. If she EVER contacts me again calling me names and threatening me I will get a restraining order. Please don't allow her near our children." Then, I wouldn't reply to any damn thing he said. I'd love to put doubt in his mind that this woman is someone who is stable.
> 
> That said, I've been having some anger issues lately so you may not want to follow my lead. LOL


:rofl: Haha, thanks for the laugh. He thinks I'm playing games, so that would be really funny. He'd just say I'm lying. But yes, that would be a good one. I think I'll go with calling her salon for now.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> You don't think we should ever talk? EVER? What do you suggest I do from this point forward? Box up his stuff and put it neatly in the garage but not tell him? Forward the bills to his parent's house for a dose of reality? Cut him off my car insurance and use my new bank account? Ask for some money for child support? Just cut him out of my life? Just not sure how to proceed from here.
> 
> He is a little boy. He is telling himself I'm ignoring him so that's the reason he doesn't want to talk. He is running away from reality. The way I look at it, I have nothing to lose. Why shouldn't I call the OW and have a nice little chat?


Has he always been like that? Why not block your number and phone the salon with fake name trying to get appointment on Easter weekend? Try for Saturday before and narrow it down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhereAmI

golfergirl said:


> Has he always been like that? Why not block your number and phone the salon with fake name trying to get appointment on Easter weekend? Try for Saturday before and narrow it down.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then call back and make all sorts of appointments on dates she is there so the b*tch can't make any money.

Oh, hell. I shouldn't be giving advice right now. I'm in fight mode. LOL I wish you the best, but I really think the best will not involve him. Hugs!


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Has he always been like that? Why not block your number and phone the salon with fake name trying to get appointment on Easter weekend? Try for Saturday before and narrow it down.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL, I like how you think. This has been my idea all along. Even pulling a "My friend came in at the end of February and loved the haircut she got. I can't remember the girl's name though. Oh, yeah, maybe that's her, can you see if she was there on February 25th?" Then I'm getting an idea of what went on during his 5 days away, and then once I "get her name" I can try to make an appointment with her for Easter weekend. Then I can call back and try to change it to one of the other dates, like the 28th (day he can't get the kids). Hmmmm.

gg, this is nothing like the man I married. Like any guy, he doesn't like relationship talks, but he's always been so reassuring and sweet and sensitive and would just pour words of affection out at me. I really think that he's telling himself he is over it all, but he's not convinced. I guess his way of telling me that was by saying he knows the kids are hurting, "as I am and I'm sure you are too".



WhereAmI said:


> Then call back and make all sorts of appointments on dates she is there so the b*tch can't make any money.
> 
> Oh, hell. I shouldn't be giving advice right now. I'm in fight mode. LOL I wish you the best, but I really think the best will not involve him. Hugs!


So funny. My friends get me all worked up with these ideas and it cracks me up. I really do have a LOT of self control. My posts might not look like it, but I really do.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Well, his paycheck went into our account still. Should I move mine out into my own account and pay MY bills? I haven't paid the bills in his name (his student loans, credit cards, etc.). He hasn't sat down with me at all in regards to bills. And I need to register my car.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Well, his paycheck went into our account still. Should I move mine out into my own account and pay MY bills? I haven't paid the bills in his name (his student loans, credit cards, etc.). He hasn't sat down with me at all in regards to bills. And I need to register my car.


Pay family bills - sheltern food, transport, insurance, utilities, cc with your name on it and screw rest. You aren't 'wife' anymore. Let OW run his finances or let him communicate with you about his stuff. Squirrel something away 
For lawyer and new hair do from Vegas salon lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> LOL, I like how you think. This has been my idea all along. Even pulling a "My friend came in at the end of February and loved the haircut she got. I can't remember the girl's name though. Oh, yeah, maybe that's her, can you see if she was there on February 25th?" Then I'm getting an idea of what went on during his 5 days away, and then once I "get her name" I can try to make an appointment with her for Easter weekend. Then I can call back and try to change it to one of the other dates, like the 28th (day he can't get the kids). Hmmmm.
> 
> gg, this is nothing like the man I married. Like any guy, he doesn't like relationship talks, but he's always been so reassuring and sweet and sensitive and would just pour words of affection out at me. I really think that he's telling himself he is over it all, but he's not convinced. I guess his way of telling me that was by saying he knows the kids are hurting, "as I am and I'm sure you are too".
> 
> 
> 
> So funny. My friends get me all worked up with these ideas and it cracks me up. I really do have a LOT of self control. My posts might not look like it, but I really do.


When I was 19 I caught my bf driving out of town on vacation with other woman (I thought he was going with buddies). I knew he'd lie and I'd never know the truth so I blocked my number and called her house pretending to be her high school buddy in town for weekend wanting to hang with my friend (OW). I got told where she was going, with who and for how long. When bf tried to lie, I knew the truth thru clever investigations!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

WhereAmI said:


> Then call back and make all sorts of appointments on dates she is there so the b*tch can't make any money.
> 
> Oh, hell. I shouldn't be giving advice right now. I'm in fight mode. LOL I wish you the best, but I really think the best will not involve him. Hugs!


I like how you think! Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BIP

LOL, You are allowing yourself to become obsessed with "discovering" the truth that you already know. I found the smoking gun in my husband's emails, and the pain I wouldn't wish on anyone. I confronted them, I made threats. It doesn't matter. You know the truth, and he knows the truth. Accept it and work through it, but don't chase it down. Your energy is better spent elsewhere; on YOU!


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Pay family bills - sheltern food, transport, insurance, utilities, cc with your name on it and screw rest. You aren't 'wife' anymore. Let OW run his finances or let him communicate with you about his stuff. Squirrel something away For lawyer and new hair do from Vegas salon lol.


I'm paying daycare, my car payment, utilities, etc. We've got money issues and him running off and running up money on gas and groceries for his parent's house is cutting it even thinner. He can't expect me to be paying all the bills. I'm going to keep the mortgage a month behind so I have a little money to put down on a lawyer when the time comes. That B!tch isn't coming near my hair, but that would be funny!




golfergirl said:


> When I was 19 I caught my bf driving out of town on vacation with other woman (I thought he was going with buddies). I knew he'd lie and I'd never know the truth so I blocked my number and called her house pretending to be her high school buddy in town for weekend wanting to hang with my friend (OW). I got told where she was going, with who and for how long. When bf tried to lie, I knew the truth thru clever investigations!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have SO thought about just calling her and pretending to be someone else. But I just don't see how it would work. My friend is better on her feet than I! You know they now have this app you can put on your phone, and when you call someone you choose what number it shows. So I could call her and it show as his number. That would be interesting. 




BIP said:


> LOL, You are allowing yourself to become obsessed with "discovering" the truth that you already know. I found the smoking gun in my husband's emails, and the pain I wouldn't wish on anyone. I confronted them, I made threats. It doesn't matter. You know the truth, and he knows the truth. Accept it and work through it, but don't chase it down. Your energy is better spent elsewhere; on YOU!


I am obsessed, you are right about that. I keep telling myself, "whatever is done in the dark will eventually be revealed in light." It will come out. Makes no difference at this point. I'm done with being married to a man that can treat me this way. I keep asking myself if I missed some signs or something along the way. I never saw this coming.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I keep telling myself, *"whatever is done in the dark will eventually be revealed in light." *


KNOW that. It's so true!


----------



## BIP

It was hard for me to come to terms with the fact that the OW wasn't what's going wrong with our marriage. When he said at first that she wasn't the problem, I got defensive and thought he was sweeping it under the rug. SLOWLY, I am realizing how we got to this point, and that she is just a symptom of our dysfunction. If we are going to rebuild, the affair will have to be addressed in time, but I had to let my obsession go. I was trying to get into his emails for hours, searching phone and text records, carrying incriminating emails around in my purse. Can we say "baggage?" You don't need proof to justify moving on. You already know. Trust yourself, your instincts, and STOP self-destructive behavior.


----------



## tamara24

LNL,

Do you see in his texts he repeats,I know u hate me,I know what you think of me.don't tell the kids I am a butthead cause you hate me.....blah blah. He istrying to get you to feel bad for poor him and he is being abused by you.... you feed into it. Do not respond.

You are giving the kids impressions. When she asks how you are? You can not say mad or sad. She is a little girl she is going to react to your voice and what you say. First,, you want him to think. You are doing just fine,don't deviate from the plan. You have NO feelings as far as he is concerned. Saying anything on facebook, don't do it.

The hubby may not ever tell you what you suspect,but what you can say to him is look,you have been married to me and have had these kids as blessings of our marraige. I deserve to be talked to face to face and not by text or email concerning the fate of our marraige. If he argues,claims he can't talk to you cause you hate him,do not respond. You will know him for the coward he is. He is not the man you married.

As far as calling, use a prepaid cell with the area code she is at, do not call from home phone incase they have caller id.

Again, change the locks,he has no business in the house. He does not live there.start forwarding his bills write no longer at address on them. 

Hugs sent your way,stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vivea

Jen I also have to agree that saying I'm mad at daddy was a not a good idea.
I never said anything to our Daughter,she saw me crying million times when things were really bad but all I've said was "I am crying because I miss daddy" .
There were times where she would get upset because she missed him and I would just comfort her and explain that he will see her soon...one time I took a little video of her being upset and me explaining to her that daddy misses her too....than send it to him and he really appreciated that I did that.

It is hard to control your feelings when you're so hurt and it's extremely hard to try and defend their father and say good things about him to them BUT you must learn to do it. Remember you're doing it for your kids,you don't want them to hate him...you want them to have a good relationship with HIM.
Developmentally this is very important for your kids.


----------



## turnera

The hardest thing for an adult to do is to say 'nothing's wrong, honey.'

But it is oh, so important.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> We ended up having another "Text message terrorism" session. What is with him?! He has nothing to say to me, can't sit down and face me and tell me he wants a divorce, but he can email and text message all day long. I texted him to have our son call and he did. I just asked what he was up to and told him I found his jacket in the garage. Then he gave the phone to our daughter. She asked if I was sad and I told her I was a little mad. She asked if I was mad at daddy and I said not really. She then wanted me and got upset and I told her I'd see her in a little while. We hang up and this is the message I get:
> 
> H: I really don't know what is being said about me and I honestly don't care what anyone thinks about me, but it bothers me that she (daughter) is constantly telling me you don't like me and that ur mad at me. I have not said one negative thing about you to anyone yet I know I have been bashed on facebook and I really am scared what these kids are hearing. Now I have her crying, telling me ur mad at me and u don't like me again. I know you hate me and ur pissed at me and you and all ur friends and support can call me every name in the book on facebook, i don't really care, but please don't drag me thru the mud to the kids. If what you say about me makes you feel better or whatever that's great, but the kids deserve to love and have a father that loves them. I thought we were both bigger than that. We need to sign up for this coping class because I thought we were not supposed to say negative things about each other to the kids yet you tell her ur mad at me.
> 
> Me: Actually you can assume whatever you want but I am not saying negative things about you. Believe what you want to believe. She tells me you don't like me either.
> 
> H: If you wanna sling names and stuff instead of doing it online and having ur friends and family join in why don't you all confront me with it. if i got something trust the fact you will hear it from my mouth. You can call me spineless and no balls and whatever you want online, you can all laugh and giggle. Just know it doesn't faze me. I find humor in the games. Feel free to tell ur friends and family to message me and let me know how they feel. As long as the kids dont get dragged into the mud slinging I truly don't give a damn what you or anyone else thinks about me. If it helps you cope amd move on more power to you. Have a great night. Please understand we had an 8:00 call agreement and she was and is all upset right now during what little time I have with them. (he is returning them at 7:30 so not sure what he means.)
> 
> Me: I will never be anything but truthful to my kids but they don't need to know about grown up issues. Glad u care enough to spy on me online and draw conclusions. Not sure what 8:0 has to do with this. Ur bringing them home at 7:30. And I can talk to kids whenever just as you can.
> 
> H: I'm not spying on you online at all, the info was relayed to me. I'm over it. If you wanna be "truthful" to the kids do it when they are old enough to understand things. She is 3, she doesn't need to hear that u are mad at me she doesn't understand.
> 
> Me: I have never once said what I felt to her. She doesn't understand why her family is broken up and her dad has moved away. The kids will figure it out in time.
> 
> H: Because you called and she got all upset. Its whatever. Again, you and all ur friends and family can call me every name in the book, just know u r all welcome to contact me directly and play the same mud slinging name calling games like an adult. She doesn't even need to hear ur mad at me or u don't like me or I don't make you happy, she doesn't understand that stuff. Do what you do to cope. I'm sure the kids will figure it out, they will hear plenty, hopefully it doesn't effect my relationship w them and hopefully you help them realize i do love them.
> 
> Me: she got upset because she misses me. Didn't you hear her on the phone the other night saying she wanted her family together? She is mourning. Everything isn't about you.
> 
> H: I think they deserve to know that I love them and will always be a father to them. They will always be a priority in my life. You may not feel as though I deserve that but they do and that is what you need to keep in mind. You can hate me all you want, but they don't need to with you. I never said it was about me. I am about my kids though, I love them, and I will always do all I can for them. Feel free to bash me to everyone u know just keep those negative feelings from influencing the kids view of me please. I may not deserve it in ur eyes but they do.
> 
> Me: They want to realize you love them but they don't understand why you lfet. I'm here to pick up the pieces while you fulfill your fantasies.
> 
> H: Its funny how you feel like you know everything. Fulfill my fantasies?? Run with it, ur right. I'm done with all that. It's about the kids and ONLY the kids.
> 
> Me: I'm not influencing their view of you they form that on their onw. enjoy riding ur bike w whoever while I'm dealing with his meltdowns and tantrums and her stuttering.
> 
> H: Feel free to discuss all that with ur friends family and support online. We will not discuss that. I'm no on trial.
> 
> Me: Oh you're pleading the fifth. Interesting item to take from the house today. Have fun! Vroom vroom!
> 
> H: Enjoy riding my bike with whoever??? What the hell r u talking about? Nevermind, I don't care what ur talking about. I will help with the kids as best as I can from where I am at. I will contact benefits about counseling for them. I will give u all pertinent info. I took quite a few things today. I will gladly remove all my items as soon as you want them out. Let me know. (he didn't take anything but the seat, I know. And his crap will probably be on the lawn on Saturday when he comes to pick the kids up.) I took my seat cus I was going to take our son for a ride on Sunday. Think what you want, i tall makes me laugh.
> 
> Me: I'm not okay with that. And where will daughter be?
> 
> H: It's funny how you think you know everything but you know so little. Its all good though. I don't ahve to defend myself. I wasn't going to take him far, around the neighborhood, and if u r not good with it I won't. She would be here. I was going to take him for a ride to a park by the house and have a little one on one with him. No worries though, apparently you knew my intent.
> 
> Me: Then why are you so quick to defend and then run off like a bat out of hell? Ur actions speak volumes. I know you better than you think. Goodnight. Drive safe.
> 
> H: No worries, I won't take him on my bike. Great job assuming what you wanted. I will be there Sat. at 6:05. LMAO, you don't know me at all. I don't have to nor do I feel the need to defend myself to you at all. You think what you want, I'm good with it.
> 
> Me: Ur right about one thing I DON'T know this version of you. And I don't want to think anything I want to KNOW the truth but I will probably never get that from you.
> 
> H: I have said what I have had to say, you have thought what you wanted to think the truth is what you want it to be. This is no longer a topic of conversation between us. You have drawn ur conclusions, publicized them to anyone and everyone that would listen, and played the bash me game. You win. I fold, I'm done with it and moving on with my life accepting what is. We are irreconcileable, I have been judged by a jury of ur choosing and will never allow myself the awkwardness of being around any of those who have judged me. I know how you all feel about me. It's evident.
> 
> 
> And I didn't respond anymore. I'm not telling him how I feel. It doesn't matter. Rings are off. I don't care. He's a flaming a$$hole and I hope his soul burns with the guilt of what he's doing and done. I have never sad a negative thing about him or told the kids what I think is going on. I have only told my son that I want to work on the marriage but daddy is angry with me and doesn't want to work on the marriage. And that's it.


I might be crazy here, but why didn't you call him on the fact that he doesn't do this face to face? He offered many times to say what needs to be said face to face and wondering why you didn't jump on it.
And just on another note - while my H and I are going through our struggles and I'm not sure we'll even make it, the only people who know what's going on are anonymous strangers on a message board. Should things work out, there's no awkwardness or discomfort or judgement. You've taken that away with your fb posts. I am by no means sticking up for your snake of a H, but he didn't deserve that, especially if you're on the fence about whether or not you could ever take him back. That's playing it his way and you're better than that.


----------



## LonelyNLost

BIP said:


> It was hard for me to come to terms with the fact that the OW wasn't what's going wrong with our marriage. You don't need proof to justify moving on. You already know. Trust yourself, your instincts, and STOP self-destructive behavior.


Well, I agree to an extent that the fact that he was weak for this OW was a symptom of a broken connection. But I have messages from July where I told him I felt like we were disconnected and we needed to spend some time together. And him saying he felt the same way and was a little depressed and stressed about money. But my H does have this weird nostalgia malfunction and has a history of being weak, and then enters OW and her marital problems and the rest is history. I will not take the blame. Especially after I have tried and tried and changed my approach. He is weak. And for that, I'm not sure I can trust.



tamara24 said:


> Do you see in his texts he repeats,I know u hate me,I know what you think of me.don't tell the kids I am a butthead cause you hate me.....blah blah. He istrying to get you to feel bad for poor him and he is being abused by you.... you feed into it. Do not respond.
> 
> You are giving the kids impressions. When she asks how you are? You can not say mad or sad. She is a little girl she is going to react to your voice and what you say. First,, you want him to think. You are doing just fine,don't deviate from the plan. You have NO feelings as far as he is concerned. Saying anything on facebook, don't do it.
> 
> The hubby may not ever tell you what you suspect,but what you can say to him is look,you have been married to me and have had these kids as blessings of our marraige. I deserve to be talked to face to face and not by text or email concerning the fate of our marraige. If he argues,claims he can't talk to you cause you hate him,do not respond. You will know him for the coward he is. He is not the man you married.
> 
> As far as calling, use a prepaid cell with the area code she is at, do not call from home phone incase they have caller id.
> 
> Again, change the locks,he has no business in the house. He does not live there.start forwarding his bills write no longer at address on them.
> 
> Hugs sent your way,stay strong.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I noticed how he said he didn't care what others thought about 7 times, which means he DOES care. He was obviously irked by the facebook post, which anyone from outside of our situation wouldn't know anything about unless they've talked to me. He even said to our neighbor the other day that my best friend and the neighbor's wife probably hate him. Which is weird, because why does he care what they think? He's all about how he doesn't care what people think. But he does.

The thing with my daughter is hard to explain. She's at this stage where she identifies everyone's feelings. She did it at the movie last night, constantly asking me if they were sad or mad or happy. It's how she identifies with people right now. So she asks if I'm sad and if I say no, she insists and then says things. I didn't really say I was mad at daddy, I just said I missed her. And then she draws her own conclusion. His response of "I know" when she tells him I don't like him is just as bad I think. If he reassured her she'd be fine. Which is what I do when she tells me that daddy doesn't like me. I don't come out and say "I'm sad because daddy doesn't love me." but I am constantly having to try to explain why I don't go with them when they go with him. It's tough. 

I will confront him in time about talking to me like a man. But for right now I'm sailing the seas and letting them calm. He is not being rational in the least. And I refuse to be disrespected any more.

I thought about forwarding the bills, LOL. He did take the car registrations that are due to be renewed on Tuesday, including my car. But I don't know when he'd pay them. 




vivea said:


> Jen I also have to agree that saying I'm mad at daddy was a not a good idea.
> I never said anything to our Daughter,she saw me crying million times when things were really bad but all I've said was "I am crying because I miss daddy" .
> 
> It is hard to control your feelings when you're so hurt and it's extremely hard to try and defend their father and say good things about him to them BUT you must learn to do it. Remember you're doing it for your kids,you don't want them to hate him...you want them to have a good relationship with HIM.
> Developmentally this is very important for your kids.


Like I said above, I didn't ever say I'm mad at daddy. I have said that daddy is mad at me, but I've not really communicated anything to her recently. She is all about feelings and is constantly asking me how I feel and guessing. I have to explain that when they go with daddy and I stay here it's because daddy doesn't want me along. I do tons of reassuring saying how he loves them and I love them but we have two families now. But I do believe that the kids and I will have a stronger bond through this. He isn't even attempting to talk to them, and that's what I want to email him and help him with. But, if he's being like he's being with me, he just isn't talking at all. My son says he doesn't want to talk to him about it.


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> I might be crazy here, but why didn't you call him on the fact that he doesn't do this face to face? He offered many times to say what needs to be said face to face and wondering why you didn't jump on it.
> And just on another note - while my H and I are going through our struggles and I'm not sure we'll even make it, the only people who know what's going on are anonymous strangers on a message board. Should things work out, there's no awkwardness or discomfort or judgement. You've taken that away with your fb posts. I am by no means sticking up for your snake of a H, but he didn't deserve that, especially if you're on the fence about whether or not you could ever take him back. That's playing it his way and you're better than that.


I don't think he was calling me on talking to him face to face, he was mad about my friends and he was saying they can talk to him face to face instead of posting on my facebook. But in the last text war he said to tell my friends not to message him because he won't respond. So I don't know what he means. Just anger talking. 

For the longest, I said nothing to ANYONE. Not even my closest friends. I came here, and vented here. Then I let my best friend know and then some of my coworkers who could see I was miserable. My mom has only known for a month and my dad for a week. I have lots of friends on my facebook and I just told one last night that I was getting divorced and he was really surprised. So I don't think it's that obvious on my facebook. The post just said "spineless" and that's it. Only those close to the situation knew what that meant. I think he's really had this planned out for awhile, because I told him I wasn't telling anyone because I didn't want them to judge them because if things worked out they wouldn't forgive him. And his response was, "Then they'll be blindsided when they find out." Which was kind of snaky.


----------



## Shianne

Ah facebook.... I love it 

I took major flack when I changed my status to separated!! Wow. Keep in mind that it has been protocol to hide everything and utterly forbidden for me to talk to anyone, ever about anything he was not perfect at. Abusers don't like people knowing.
I told him flat out, We are separated and it tells nothing more than a public record search would... I am tired of lying.

It is best not to go all nasty on your wall though... maybe keep it to pm... you don't want to build a public record of slander and angry behavior

if your kids ever go on facebook... the kids can't feel the rage... try hard not to let them. I know how hard this is. My DD pushes me to tell her what I am thinking and I can't. I tell her that I hurt. She says she knows it is dad and I can talk to her. I want to really, I am very alone... but I can't.
I just tell her that while I can't live with her dad, I love him always because he gave me the 3 best gifts in the entire world, my children. None of the rest matters.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Shianne said:


> Ah facebook.... I love it
> 
> I took major flack when I changed my status to separated!! Wow. Keep in mind that it has been protocol to hide everything and utterly forbidden for me to talk to anyone, ever about anything he was not perfect at. Abusers don't like people knowing.
> I told him flat out, We are separated and it tells nothing more than a public record search would... I am tired of lying.
> 
> It is best not to go all nasty on your wall though... maybe keep it to pm... you don't want to build a public record of slander and angry behavior
> 
> if your kids ever go on facebook... the kids can't feel the rage... try hard not to let them. I know how hard this is. My DD pushes me to tell her what I am thinking and I can't. I tell her that I hurt. She says she knows it is dad and I can talk to her. I want to really, I am very alone... but I can't.
> I just tell her that while I can't live with her dad, I love him always because he gave me the 3 best gifts in the entire world, my children. None of the rest matters.


I just hid my relationship status. I think he hid his too. Or deleted it. Idk. Idc. I am just really irritated by the fact that he thinks he can do this to me and tell me I'm crazy for thinking he's involved with his ex gf and now he's facebook friends with her whole clan. And now his mom is friends with her and has blocked me from her wall. I don't get it.

My kids aren't on facebook. My son has a fake account he used to play farmville with, but hasn't touched in a year. But H deleted that acct from his page, and his mom blocked that account from seeing her wall. What is there to hide?


----------



## LonelyNLost

I'm having a really tough time today. Kids went with him last night at 6 and I won't see them until tomorrow.  First whole day without my babies. Just isn't fair that I fulfilled my part of the marriage and I lose out. He didn't come within 15 feet of the door last night and then used my son to come back twice and deliver questions and messages he could have asked himself or by text.  

Then last night when the kids called, it wasn't the kids, it was him, asking me more stupid questions about the kids' things he could have asked by text. He makes no sense. I made it clear I didn't want him putting the stuff in my car. 

His mom has blocked me from her wall and she is now friends with OW.  And H is now friends with like 8 people from OW's clan. And he insists there's nothing. It's so sickening. Has he really convinced himself that she had nothing to do with his decision to throw his vows away and leave his family behind? Really?


----------



## Shianne

When you change it to separated it removes the others pic from spouse, and out of family, into the friends section! I did not know that, boy he was sad...
I will say one thing though, that is an odd, backwards similarity. I am now facebook friends with my OM but he is not in my list of options AT ALL. He knows, we were friends before all of this and we are friends now. I will not so much as hug him but we talk sometimes. I am much more his wife's friend. We went about it entirely wrong, I was desparate for a way out and needed financial backing. He saw the need and met it. I am totally in the wrong for going that way and that is why now, over a year later, I don't want anyone. I was in a panic. Now I know I can do this all by my big girl self. 

I am friends with his wife, actually really good friends with her. It was so hard for me to accept, but she has really been there for me and what else do I have? I have no family willing to so much as visit. I lost all friends that I have tried to make over 12 years. They live right next door. We share a wall. 

So, my husband may take this very wrong seeing my FB friending OM, his wife and his son. His son is awesome and plays farmville and hangs out with my son. He is the next door neighbor boy, not in this adult mess I made.

I was forbidden from talking to them all before the affair and the affair was the time I talked to them and hid it. 

I don't know if I am being a ***** by adding them back, but I see her and the boy ALL THE TIME. She understands everything about me and is my friend.


----------



## Shianne

I am so sorry you have to let your babies be away... so sorry...
That is just unfair and unjust. As most of the world is... but still.
My thoughts are with you.


----------



## LonelyNLost

The OW lives 2500 miles away and he hadn't talked to her in 17 years before this past September. Then they were friends on facebook and I caught him talking to her in the middle of the night and he lied about it. But he's refused to cut contact, all the while saying they are just friends. Then in January he went out there to visit and comes back and our marriage falls apart. Coincidence? I think not. Maybe if there were only one or two of them, but there's been hundreds. At one point, you have to stop denying the evidence that stares you in the face. I hate it.  

Hurts to know his mom believes him and is even friends with OW. She won't talk to me. It's all about him doing what makes him happy. Well, he's not happy and he won't be. The guilt I see in his face and the way he acts shows that. He's miserable and always will be. But I can't risk this happening to me again. I can't allow him back in. I have to accept that it's over and I have to move on. It's best for the kids and I. Unfortunately they will be most affected, and he doesn't care. 

I heard that if the spouse changes the status, it makes their picture disappear from your status. So yours would just say "married" but not to any specific person. When he deleted and blocked me (and 25 other members of my family and friends) someone told me it just didn't show a status. His picture still shows on mine as married to him, so he must have just hidden it. Probably because he didn't want it to show that his status changed, because he'd have to answer questions. I'm ready to announce to my family and friends that my husband left me and they can all contact him directly for more info. LOL. He offered in his text message the other night.


----------



## Jellybeans

STOP the FB drama. Seriously, if you have to, just delete him. His mom will always be on his side cause he is her son.

Yes it sounds like he is having an affair. Everything points that way. Forget him. If he won't be a husband to you and commit to you, he's not worth your time, chica.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> STOP the FB drama. Seriously, if you have to, just delete him. His mom will always be on his side cause he is her son.
> 
> Yes it sounds like he is having an affair. Everything points that way. Forget him. If he won't be a husband to you and commit to you, he's not worth your time, chica.


HE deleted ME the day I gave him that long letter, which was the night after I called her phone and let it ring twice. I understand his mom's loyalty, it just sucks that she'd sit by and watch him betray his family like that. 

I am trying to let go of my need to know the truth. I know the truth. I feel it deep inside. He isn't worth my time. I'm trying so hard to move forward, I really am.


----------



## anx

Yeah, its an affair, but you knew that.

Him unwilling to cut contact when he was talking with her late night was bad news.

I agree with what you said a few posts back. Guilt will seer on his heart. He knows what he is doing.


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## Shianne

awesome facebook tool ~~ block user

once blocked they will be gone. Poof, like magic. If you search for them they do not exist. If they post to mutual friends you will not see their posts. If only real life had such a feature...


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> Yeah, its an affair, but you knew that.
> 
> Him unwilling to cut contact when he was talking with her late night was bad news.
> 
> I agree with what you said a few posts back. Guilt will seer on his heart. He knows what he is doing.


Thanks. I'm putting it in God's hands. This was my daily "God wants you to know" post the other day:
_On this day, God wants you to know that it's time you let go. Yes, of course, you want to control so everything happens in just the way you want it. But at the end of the day, we control nothing, - it's all in God's hands, - has always been, and will always be. So, do what you can, and then let go, and let God handle the rest._

I think that says it all. I guess I knew from the beginning this was all wrong. That was end of November that they were talking late at night and I caught him in a lie. They had only been in contact less than a month. I can't imagine what it is now. I just changed my facebook to show to everyone my relationship status as married to him. I'm sure he'll change his relationship status so it doesn't show his name. But it's whatever. I am married to him. 

I messaged his best friend and he replied kind of odd. He said he'll explain later, but he asked me to block him from seeing my wall or delete the "spineless" post I posted the other day. He said this had to stay between us and that I would be doing him a huge favor. Hmmm. Now he's got me wondering. 

It's taking all my will power to just let go and not play games or let him know what I know. I'm reaching for the high road. Almost there!


----------



## golfergirl

Shianne said:


> I am so sorry you have to let your babies be away... so sorry...
> That is just unfair and unjust. As most of the world is... but still.
> My thoughts are with you.


That's the unfair part - having to lose out time with kids. For sake of son HE shouldn't use your son as a messenger. Is he capable dad? Or clueless?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shianne

The friend is in the middle.
Why are you messaging him? That seems odd unless he is a good friend of yours as well...

I think you would be best to block your H so that you will not be tempted to write things to him. If you are going for the 180...


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> That's the unfair part - having to lose out time with kids. For sake of son HE shouldn't use your son as a messenger. Is he capable dad? Or clueless?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know. I was PISSED. Then when the kids were supposed to call last night it was actually HIM on the phone. So he is asking me dumb questions about their clothes and things. I think he missed my voice, lol. It's driving him crazy that he doesn't know my emotional state. I think he's been asking his best friend to spy on my page, and that's why the friend asked me to delete stuff or block him. 

Would it be wrong for me to send H an email with some parenting tips for divorce? I want to tell him how to respond to our daughter when she says, "Mommy doesn't like you" and I want to tell him how to deal with our son, like not using him as a messenger.


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## LonelyNLost

Shianne said:


> The friend is in the middle.
> Why are you messaging him? That seems odd unless he is a good friend of yours as well...
> 
> I think you would be best to block your H so that you will not be tempted to write things to him. If you are going for the 180...


We are way past 180. We are NC. I should block him, then he wouldn't see anything of mine. That would probably drive him a little crazy. I have too many friends for him to tell if I've added new ones, and I did add back that guy friend that he blameshifted about a month or two ago. 

I messaged the friend awhile back, before we separated, and just kind of said that we were having issues, and I wasn't sure if H was reaching out to him, but that he could really use a friend to talk to. I told him I didn't need to have things reported back to me, just that he was acting strangely, and he had really shut everyone out. That was really it. But now we've been communicating. He even sent me a really long email detailing how he thought H was involved emotionally with this ex gf. He is now just telling me that H isn't saying anything about any of it to him, he just changes the subject.


----------



## Shianne

Yes block him 
Let him wonder 
It is the very best in NC! Like I said before if only real life had a block button, NC would be a breeze


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## BIP

LonelyNLost said:


> I should block him, then he wouldn't see anything of mine. That would probably drive him a little crazy.


Please block him to protect your privacy, not to drive him crazy. I think you should reconsider the 180, for yourself, to stop obsessing and looking for answers that won't really help you.

I am VERY sorry about your kids. My first day without will be this Tues., and then again next weekend. I'm already sad


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## Jellybeans

I hadn't realized h has already deleted u from his FB. Now stop checking up on him. How is he able to see u on there if he deleted u? Don't email him parenting and divorce stuff. Eventuaally u guys will have to discuss co parenting issues face to face
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhereAmI

It sounds to me like your husband is using his bfs page to gain access to yours. He either intends to copy your post as proof of you acting out, or wants his bf to respond defending him. I think his bf is a really good person to have on your side ATM.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I hadn't realized h has already deleted u from his FB. Now stop checking up on him. How is he able to see u on there if he deleted u? Don't email him parenting and divorce stuff. Eventuaally u guys will have to discuss co parenting issues face to face
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, he deleted me and my family and friends. Even his friend's wife because she talks to me. He can't see anything of mine unless he logs in through his mom's account. Which he is probably doing, although he said someone relayed the info to him. I feel like I need to tell him how to respond when our daughter says "momma don't like you". Guess I can let it go. 



WhereAmI said:


> It sounds to me like your husband is using his bfs page to gain access to yours. He either intends to copy your post as proof of you acting out, or wants his bf to respond defending him. I think his bf is a really good person to have on your side ATM.


No, he's using his mom. There is nothing in that post to even prove it's about him. At all. I don't think the best friend is taking sides, he just knows both sides and doesn't like what H is doing. But he can't exactly call H out on it because he doesn't tell him anything. So he feels really helpless. 


This is what the friend's message said...

_You aren't upsetting me at all. All is good. As far as remember they broke up when we were sophomores his girlfriend when we were seniors was christina. And it seems like there was one between the two. You need to do me one of two favors. Either take that spineless post down or block me from your face book for a while so I can't see it. This has to stay between us though and it is important to you to do one or the other. It would just help me out a lot. I'm not ignoring you I have been extremely busy this last week. I'll explain more later but please do one or the other. I think we can still message if I am blocked._


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## tamara24

First,as far as the kids are, I know how hard it is but you need to be a little Mary sunshine. They will be grown in a blink of an eye and you bet they will know exactly what went on. They will have to form their own opinions of dad. You are putting your kids into this. When you say I am just mad. Well, of course,she is going to pick up who are mad at. I am not yelling at you. It is both of your jobs to keep the kids. Happy and ignorant of adult situations. Instead of saying I am sad cause I miss you,spin it. Hey, are you having fun with dad? I was thinking when you get home we can make cookies and I was wondering what kind you would like to make? If you are saying you are sad,mad,angry,that is what she is going to identify with.
On the same note dad needs to not use the kids to ask questions. Guess what? Him not having a clue about clothes,kids(yep it is an excuse), this is a consequence of his decisions.he will need to figure out clothes for the kids all by his lonesome. Seriously, if you help the kids pack,you know you are not sending them without the basics and he will need to learn how to deal with them alone. Not as easy as you make it look,get it?

When he plays the switcheroo with calling and you think it is the kids,be short. Are the kids,ok?,anyone sick? Good, can I speak with the kids? This is my allotted to time to speak with the kids,not you. When you choose to speak with me then you need to set up a time with me. Also from now on, please don't use the kids to ask me questions. We are both adults, you should come talk to me yourself.

He is playing you. You are letting him. When he sends your son in to ask you something, send your son back with tell dad if he needs to ask mom something,I am in the kitchen. 

Always stay a step ahead. I think he is already feeling guilty,he is lashing out because he looks bad. YEA, cause he is an idiot. He doesn't want people to know,he lied,he cheated,he left his family. That doesn't look good for him. You can hold your head up high and know you have done everything. He did not try,he coward his way out.

I know it hurts your feelings that his mom is turning a blind eye. I am dealing with the same kind of issue with my BIL. He was a witness in a drama between me and my SIL and he knows she lied and insistes that I lied. I know I do not have to live with her and he took the easy way out. If you do end up divorcing him,his mom is still stuck with him. Plus I still get critisized by my MIL that I do not do enough for her sonny boy. But she did not see that he had an emotional affair, did not take care of his kids and neglected his wife for years. Anybody can fool somebody for a few hours every couple of months. In your hubby's case,you also don't know what he said to her about you! Maybe that you didn't take care of him,you were demanding,all you cared about was his check.....get the point? You didn't think he would act this way towards you, same applies to anybody he doesn't want to look bad to and nobody wants their mom to shame them.

More hugs,and as my gram says,get a good nights sleep and when ya get up,put your big girl pants on and kick some butt! By the way, since you have no kids this is an excellent time for you to do something for yourself. Read a book, take a long hot bubble bath,go for a massage,get a pedicure! You need to look gorgeous and show him what he is missing when he drops the kids off. Now go buy that new lip stick and have at it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> They will be grown in a blink of an eye and you bet they will know exactly what went on. They will have to form their own opinions of dad.
> On the same note dad needs to not use the kids to ask questions. Guess what? Him not having a clue about clothes,kids(yep it is an excuse), this is a consequence of his decisions.he will need to figure out clothes for the kids all by his lonesome.
> 
> When he plays the switcheroo with calling and you think it is the kids,be short. Are the kids,ok?,anyone sick? Good, can I speak with the kids? This is my allotted to time to speak with the kids,not you. When you choose to speak with me then you need to set up a time with me. Also from now on, please don't use the kids to ask me questions. We are both adults, you should come talk to me yourself.
> 
> He is playing you. You are letting him. When he sends your son in to ask you something, send your son back with tell dad if he needs to ask mom something,I am in the kitchen.
> 
> Always stay a step ahead. I think he is already feeling guilty,he is lashing out because he looks bad. YEA, cause he is an idiot. He doesn't want people to know,he lied,he cheated,he left his family. That doesn't look good for him. You can hold your head up high and know you have done everything. He did not try,he coward his way out.


Thanks, Tamara for the excellent post. 

I like the bit about sending my son back and telling him to tell dad to talk to me himself. I think that screams "Respect me!" which I need to convey. I will also use that on the phone. He had asked via email if I could send toys and clothes to keep there, and he had said he'd buy bathroom stuff. I sent everything, and then put a plastic bag with an extra outfit and undies in it. So he was asking if that bag was to keep there and if he could keep the toys. He also told me he got toothbrushes and stuff to keep there and told me he is leaving the other stuff in the bag. It did give me a chance to let him know I didn't want him in my car. I will soon be prancing into his work and asking for my car key back and giving his back to him. 

I get it about his mom. I just don't understand why she'd be friends with the OW. :scratchhead: Especially since she shared my suspicions on this early on. I do know that he's not said anything negative to his friends about me, but I have no clue what he's said to his mom. I am trying not to let it bother me. She's being childish in blocking me and my family from her facebook wall. I will not play into it. 

I just blocked H and the OW from facebook. It deleted my relationship status, so we are no longer married on facebook. But I don't care. I will just let him wonder. I didn't get around to packing up his things today, so that will be a work in progress unless he comes and takes stuff before then. 

I do think he is angry because he's not in control. I think the reality of the situation is hitting him. He has to feel guilty, and anger and blame shifting is his way of doing this. I just wonder what he's pumping the best friend for. Hope he tells me. Thanks for the advice, this has helped me a lot.


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## LonelyNLost

Hey everyone. Tomorrow is H's birthday. I am taking the kids to Disney World on my own, so he won't see them for his Tuesday evening pick up. He'll have them on Wednesday instead. Question is, do I do anything? Acknowledge it? Buy him a gift from the kids? He never cared much about his birthday, but I always went all out and got him gifts and made him a cake. Favor was never really returned. My son made him a card from him and his sister and he picked up some junk at garage sales on Saturday. Is that good enough?


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## Jellybeans

Nope. Don't acknowledge. Do nothing. He is the one who has decided your relationship's status right now. So you don't reward him for it. If you want, you have the kids give him the card or gift but from them NOT you.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Nope. Don't acknowledge. Do nothing. He is the one who has decided your relationship's status right now. So you don't reward him for it. If you want, you have the kids give him the card or gift but from them NOT you.


Okay, that's what I was going to do. They won't see him again until Wednesday. I'm hurting badly today. Missed my kids so much and then he dropped my son off and is telling me stuff they did and things he bought for them. I hate it. He keeps asking my son if the neighbor has been coming over. I don't understand that at all. But he doesn't talk to the kids at all about what is happening. I parked my car in a totally off location this morning, so he was driving around looking for it to put things in it. He couldn't find it, LOL. Told my son he would drop it at the house sometime today. Is it really that bad to walk in my classroom? I think he is afraid to face me!


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## Jellybeans

Is the neighbor a hot male? LOL

He feels ashamed and guilty for what he has done to your family and that is why he can't face you. It's better he didn't go into your classroom though. He can't even face you for other huge things, so I'm not surprised he did this too. 

As far as the kids--again, I'm not surprised he hasn't told them waht's going on. It's hard to explain why you walked out on your family. I dont' think they should be lied to though. I think he has the responsibility of telling them what is going on. It's only fair. You can't make him do anything but if I were you, I would tell them the truth if/when they ask what is going on. 

Like another poster said, you need to put your game face on for the kids. They need to see their mother as a happy, independent, loving, woman who isn't going to let this destroy her, who will stay above it, who can take wahtever comes her way and stay strong in the face of adversity. You are their role model. Dad may have walked but they have you there, their 100% security.

Did you ever respond to his custody paperwork?


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Is the neighbor a hot male? LOL
> 
> He feels ashamed and guilty for what he has done to your family and that is why he can't face you. It's better he didn't go into your classroom though. He can't even face you for other huge things, so I'm not surprised he did this too.
> 
> As far as the kids--again, I'm not surprised he hasn't told them waht's going on. It's hard to explain why you walked out on your family. I dont' think they should be lied to though. I think he has the responsibility of telling them what is going on. It's only fair. You can't make him do anything but if I were you, I would tell them the truth if/when they ask what is going on.
> 
> Like another poster said, you need to put your game face on for the kids. They need to see their mother as a happy, independent, loving, woman who isn't going to let this destroy her, who will stay above it, who can take wahtever comes her way and stay strong in the face of adversity. You are their role model. Dad may have walked but they have you there, their 100% security.
> 
> Did you ever respond to his custody paperwork?


No, the neighbor is his friend of 8 years. I've become good friends with his wife in the last few weeks. He went over and talked to him last week and told him how he was "burnt out and done, and had been thinking of leaving for awhile." So I'm not really understanding why he keeps asking our son about him.

I've told the kids that I really want our family to be together, but I can't do much about it. I told them that I didn't know what would happen and that I was just giving daddy space to figure things out. I told them that no matter what we would be okay, even if it meant that it would just be the 3 of us. I am just in awe at how he has no balls to face up to anything. It amazes me. And he thinks he can prance in the house all he wants and go in my car. WTH?

I didn't ever address the custody papers, because really, they weren't anything official. They were the papers that would end up being put into the divorce decree, but the lawyer told me I could toss them. I handled it by emailing him and setting up a schedule and telling him that the 6 overnights he wants in a two week period would not be in the best interest of the kids due to his work schedule and current living arrangements. I told him it was unfair as it didn't account for my downtime, only his. He agreed to my typical dad schedule. So that's a plus.

I'm doing my best to be strong for the kids. I really think he hasn't really come face to face with reality yet. He thinks he's being this awesome dad and putting them first. He's yet to see that he's only putting himself first. I saw a lot of perspective in tobio's post about her husband leaving. Wow, did it hit home. Describes my H to a T!


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> He went over and talked to him last week and told him how he was "burnt out and done, and had been thinking of leaving for awhile." So I'm not really understanding why he keeps asking our son about him.


Maybe he was trying to get a feel on whether the neighbor had relayed what he said---about him being burnt out and "done" for a long time? Who knows. Either way, shouldn't matter to you. He is done and gone and is showing you the new him. Thsi should make you want to run clear in the other direction.



LonelyNLost said:


> I am just in awe at how he has no balls to face up to anything. It amazes me. And he thinks he can prance in the house all he wants and go in my car. WTH?


You are going to have to get over the "awe" and "amazement" Lonely. I know ti's hard but again, this is who he is now. He is now a man who deletes you from his FB, walks out on his wife and kids, is probably having an affair, and can so coldly cut you out of his life. This is the reality. Nothing more and nothing less.

It may be time for you to make a list. Write out all the crap things he's done thus far and keep reading it over and over again til it sinks in for you. He is not being loving toward you at all. Let him go.

My friend has this saying I thought was spot on: 

"Let go or be dragged."


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I messaged his best friend and he replied kind of odd. He said he'll explain later, but he asked me to block him from seeing my wall or delete the "spineless" post I posted the other day. He said this had to stay between us and that I would be doing him a huge favor. Hmmm. Now he's got me wondering.


He is trying to help you learn to deal with this with dignity. He knows that what you have been doing makes YOU look bad, not your husband. 

Listen to him.


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I know. I was PISSED. Then when the kids were supposed to call last night it was actually HIM on the phone. So he is asking me dumb questions about their clothes and things. I think he missed my voice, lol. It's driving him crazy that he doesn't know my emotional state. I think he's been asking his best friend to spy on my page, and that's why the friend asked me to delete stuff or block him.


Which should tell you that he still loves you, but he's caught up in dealing with OW, who makes him feel GOOD because she doesn't tear him down every time he turns around. Why would he want to ditch her, when he knows that you are going to make him feel like dirt? Do you remember the other poster I told you about? He didn't even have another woman - he just wanted to be away from the woman he had, who continuously made him feel bad. Please try to remember - we seek out what makes us feel good, and we avoid what makes us feel bad; that is a human being to the core. If you can't be what makes him feel good, he will never come back.



> Would it be wrong for me to send H an email with some parenting tips for divorce? I want to tell him how to respond to our daughter when she says, "Mommy doesn't like you" and I want to tell him how to deal with our son, like not using him as a messenger.


What did I just say? How would you like for HIM to send YOU a message telling him that YOU screw up all the time? You wouldn't like it, would you? 

So why do you think that YOU have the right to tell HIM how to do things right? Just because he cheated and you didn't?

Sending him things like that only solidify for him that he's doing the right thing leaving you.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Maybe he was trying to get a feel on whether the neighbor had relayed what he said---about him being burnt out and "done" for a long time? Who knows. Either way, shouldn't matter to you. He is done and gone and is showing you the new him. Thsi should make you want to run clear in the other direction.
> 
> You are going to have to get over the "awe" and "amazement" Lonely. I know ti's hard but again, this is who he is now. He is now a man who deletes you from his FB, walks out on his wife and kids, is probably having an affair, and can so coldly cut you out of his life. This is the reality. Nothing more and nothing less.
> 
> It may be time for you to make a list. Write out all the crap things he's done thus far and keep reading it over and over again til it sinks in for you. He is not being loving toward you at all. Let him go.
> 
> My friend has this saying I thought was spot on:
> 
> "Let go or be dragged."


I'm working on getting over it all. Just hurts still, especially when I am missing my kids. The idea of boxing up his things makes me kind of sick to think about. But when he gets his high school yearbook back, he'll love my rendition of the OW. 

Not sure how he'd know if the neighbor relayed the info by asking my son if he came over. Maybe he's trying to feel out if he's lost this friend. Who knows? Doesn't matter to me. I know that they are there for me, and I've got nothing to hide. I wouldn't care what he told my H. 

I will work on that list. And not be dragged. I keep replaying all the things he's done through this and how cold he's been and emotionally manipulating, and I really don't think I could get over it. I want my family together, but not at the expense of my dignity.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> He is trying to help you learn to deal with this with dignity. He knows that what you have been doing makes YOU look bad, not your husband.
> 
> Listen to him.


Maybe, but I think he just doesn't want to be the spy. Sounds like H is pumping him for info. It really wasn't much. I could have done way worse. 




turnera said:


> Which should tell you that he still loves you, but he's caught up in dealing with OW, who makes him feel GOOD because she doesn't tear him down every time he turns around. Why would he want to ditch her, when he knows that you are going to make him feel like dirt? Do you remember the other poster I told you about? He didn't even have another woman - he just wanted to be away from the woman he had, who continuously made him feel bad. Please try to remember - we seek out what makes us feel good, and we avoid what makes us feel bad; that is a human being to the core. If you can't be what makes him feel good, he will never come back.
> 
> What did I just say? How would you like for HIM to send YOU a message telling him that YOU screw up all the time? You wouldn't like it, would you?
> 
> So why do you think that YOU have the right to tell HIM how to do things right? Just because he cheated and you didn't?
> 
> Sending him things like that only solidify for him that he's doing the right thing leaving you.


Well, he did send me boatloads of text messages accusing me of saying negative things about him around them. Then I find out that his response to our daughter saying "Mommy doesn't like you" is "I know" which really doesn't help her any. And I do need to tell him not to use our son as a messenger and to stop asking questions about who we hang out with and talk to. These are just no brainers that's he's missing because he's too busy blaming me for everything. 

And I'll say it again. I never tore him down. All of this is a result of his relationship with the OW which began before I even discovered them talking for two hours in the middle of the night. I was never the nagging wife. I held my ground on the fact that I didn't like their relationship, it made me uncomfortable, and I think that energy should be spent on our marriage, not an ex girlfriend. He felt tore down and like crap because of his guilt and what he is doing to his family. Not because of me. Because as it appears, I was spot on. I can move forward with a clear conscience, because I know I did all I could. No regrets. 

I think this sums my situation up well...

He left because he is a coward and does not want to face what he has done. I'm a reminder of his poor choices. He wants me to rug sweep and never bring this up again and since I cannot, and rightfully so, he has decided to move on like he's some noble person and we just grew apart. He isn't. His ego feeding is the most important thing to him. Right now, his ego isn't being fed by me. He has to see my pain and suffering and that makes him feel bad. He doesn't feel bad for me, he feels bad for himself. His ego took a hit when all of a sudden his wife views him differently and not some Knight in shining armor. He needs that again. Sticking around only makes him realize how badly he let all of us down. He leaves and that only makes him not have to see what he has done. Walking away is easy, sticking around to make things right is hard; too hard for him. His talking about me not trusting him is just a guise. Now he can toss the blame on me and say that what I did makes him unable to continue to be with me. Since I cannot "get over" what he has done and since he cannot stand to see me in pain, he needs to leave. Nothing is his fault, it's blameshifting 101.

He doesn't give a rat's arse if me or our children are in pain, he only cares if he is. He is no longer viewed on a pedestal and he cannot stand it. Walking away is the easiest way to have to never experience that again. I’m going to let him, not for his sake, but for mine. HE made this mess, and rather than being a man and sticking around to clean up the mess he's made, he's running away.

This is what he is doing and this is who he is - He is abandoning a woman he had two children with. He can spin that story to his friends and family to make himself the one needing the sympathy but I don't buy it. He may not like the person he is but he has to own it. The lies he tells himself may convince him but this is who he is - a man who abandons his wife and two children because he wants to be free to have his ego stroked.

He may find it hard to look at himself, but I see him and so will everyone else. He needs to cut the bull and own up to the type of person he is. Might not ever happen, but I did not marry this person. And if these are his true colors, they have no right to be shining on me. It hurts, but it's the truth.


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## Jellybeans

Don't do anything w/ the yearbook. 
Don't gossip about him to his friends.
Don't react at all to him. At this point your H expects you to lash out at him and hate him. Don't give him the pleasure of showing him what he thinks you will do is right...

Go dark. No contact unless it's about the kids. DO YOU. Don't worry about him. You are hurt and that is very normal but seriously, make that list and keep reading it over & over again.

Oh and you said _I'm working on getting over it all._

It's not something you "get over"--it is something you "go through." And you can and will go through it and come out on the other side and be fine. Promise 

*The sooner you detach, the better*.


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## Momof2inMT

:iagree:


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## LonelyNLost

Million dollar question...HOW DO I DETACH?! I don't know how. That's what I am working on getting through. Just keep reading the list. Replace the image of the man I married with this monster? 

And honestly, he wouldn't know if I was mad or not. He isn't around me. All he has is what others tell him. And I've backed way off. I blocked him and OW from facebook, so I can't see him and he can't see me. AT ALL. Just didn't want to have a crap relationship with his mother, so I kept her but blocked her from my wall. But honestly, I don't think I can have a relationship with her when this is all said and done.


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## Jellybeans

You detach by letting him go and letting go of all hope you have of him coming back.

You detach by accepting the reality of your situation (that he is gone and is deletingyou from his life).

You detach by not having contact w/ him re: anything other than your children.

Oh and you said he was going in you car--NO way. He doesn't get that right anymore.

Back to topic:

You detach by getting busy with YOUR life.

You detach by knowing no matter how this ends, you are going to be fine.


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## Jellybeans

Good article excertps:

_ Remember the benefits of moving on.

When you let go, you give yourself peace. 

Everything about holding on is torturous. You regret, you feel ashamed and guilty, you rehash, you obsess—it’s all an exercise in suffering. The only way to feel peace is to quiet the thoughts that threaten it.

Letting go opens you up to new possibilities. 

When you’re holding onto something, you’re less open to giving and receiving anything else.

If you had your arms wrapped around a huge bucket of water, you wouldn’t be able to give anything other than that bucket, or grab anything else that came your way. You might even struggle breathing because you’re clutching something so all-encompassing with so much effort.

You have to give to receive. Give love to get love, share joy to feel joy. It’s only possible if you’re open and receptive.

Embrace impermanence. 

Nothing in life lasts forever. Every experience and relationship eventually runs its course.

The best way to embrace impermanence is to translate it into action. Treat each day as a life unto itself. Appreciate the people in front of you as if it were their last day on earth. Find little things to gain in every moment instead of dwelling on what you lost.

When I feel like clinging to experiences and people, I remind myself the unknown can be a curse or an adventure. It’s up to me whether or not I’m strong and positive enough to see it as the latter._
And the whole article:

How to Let Go of a Past Relationship: 10 Steps to Peacefully Move On | Tiny Buddha: Wisdom Quotes, Letting Go, Letting Happiness In


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## tamara24

I think he is trying to figure out if his buddy is talking to you and you two are discussing him. And everybody knows,ask a kid and they will tell you that and more. Again, HE doesn't want to look the bad guy.

Do not wish him Happy Birthday, that is yet another consequence. You left your wife, she is not there to give you the goodies. OW is too far away to give him goodies too! man,what a lonely birthday for him,let his mommy take care of him.

Turnera is sooooo right about us gravitating to the people who make us feel good. That being said, he had every responsibility to talk to you about your marraige and any needs he needed met. He also needed to take responsibilty to make himself happy as you can't do that for him(yep Turnera had to beat me. Upside the head with that one). Think of it like this, you can come home to wife and kids with preasures of being a hubby, dad,caretaker,provider,lover,garbage picker upper,bill payer,and lawn mower boy or you can have the shiny NEW toy that reminds you of youth,is too far away to deal with you on a daily basis so arguing is nonexsisitant,you feel like a stud since everything you do makes this new toy smile and compliment you. She doesn't do your laundry with the skid marks,ask you to fix the kitchen faucet,wipe the snot off a kid's nose,babysit,or demand that you not watch the football game cause the lawn is higher than your knees.
This will only change when he wakes up and says wait a minute,my wife is funny,gorgeous,great mom and isn't looking at me as just a paycheck. She loves me skid marks and all! If you tell the kids you are sad,mad,he just feels that old chain hanging around his neck.

I don't feel he deserves you,but I do not live in your shoes,nor do I have any reason to judge you if you want to work it out. You are the only person that can make that choice. Nothing will change until he gets a few jolts. No way to know what your doing,no way to get into the house to snoop,the kids are reporting how mommy is so happy and she is not mad at daddy,when he does get glimpses of you,you are dressed nice,hair done,and smiling. Why is she not wearing the old sweats and tshirt with the food stains on, is there another man?,can she be over me? Trust me,name one man that loves to hear his wife is over him. The only ones I know are the nes that stalk their husbands every move and that you aint!

Let him wonder. Do stuff for you! Because let's face it, us moms always neglect ourselves. You can't help the visitation schedule but you can make good with the time you got. Why do you want to pack his stuff? I would say hey, I am taking the kids all weekend to mom's if you would like to clear out your stuff. Let him pack! Have some flowers with the missing card stick in your bedroom by your side of the bed. Take anything with you,documents,lawyer cards,laptop so he can't snoop. You can even ask him to leave his keys to the house and car. Stay one step ahead. Never let him blind side you with his nonsense. He is acting like a five year old. What do mom's tell their five year olds? If you can't play nice and be respectful,you can have a time out to think about it. By the way, when he sends son in to ask you something, don't send son out saying if daddy wans to talk to me he can do it himself. Say if dad needs to talk to me,I am in the kitchen. That way you are not putting son in the middle and your son sees you as being polite,not angry.

Have an awesome time at Disney, you deserve it! Make sure you send hubby pic of the family with everybody smiling and having fun on his bday while he is eating with his mom!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> You detach by letting him go and letting go of all hope you have of him coming back.


I guess I'm having a hard time, but I'm getting there!




Jellybeans said:


> Everything about holding on is torturous. You regret, you feel ashamed and guilty, you rehash, you obsess—it’s all an exercise in suffering. The only way to feel peace is to quiet the thoughts that threaten it. Letting go opens you up to new possibilities.


I really like this one. So true. Great article. Thanks for sharing. 



tamara24 said:


> Do not wish him Happy Birthday, that is yet another consequence. You left your wife, she is not there to give you the goodies. OW is too far away to give him goodies too! man,what a lonely birthday for him,let his mommy take care of him.


Yeah, this is what I was planning on doing. Hope he is lonely. But I won't send him a pic of us. That would be like rubbing it in. Remember, I did invite him to come along as that was the original plan. But he gets to miss out on our daughter's first trip to Disney World.



> Think of it like this, you can come home to wife and kids with pressures of being a hubby, dad, caretaker, provider, lover, garbage picker upper, bill payer, and lawn mower boy or you can have the shiny NEW toy that reminds you of youth,is too far away to deal with you on a daily basis so arguing is nonexsisitant,you feel like a stud since everything you do makes this new toy smile and compliment you. She doesn't do your laundry with the skid marks,ask you to fix the kitchen faucet,wipe the snot off a kid's nose,babysit,or demand that you not watch the football game cause the lawn is higher than your knees.
> 
> This will only change when he wakes up and says wait a minute,my wife is funny,gorgeous,great mom and isn't looking at me as just a paycheck. She loves me skid marks and all! If you tell the kids you are sad,mad,he just feels that old chain hanging around his neck.


Good point. Never thought of it quite that way. I miss the comfort of having my own little family. I still have it, it's just missing something for now until I'm whole again. I can only imagine that he'd have to be mourning that as well. The end of a marriage is the end of all the hopes and dreams you shared together. It pains me to think of good memories we had. But you're right, he is avoiding me and everything associated with me.



> Nothing will change until he gets a few jolts. No way to know what your doing,no way to get into the house to snoop,the kids are reporting how mommy is so happy and she is not mad at daddy,when he does get glimpses of you,you are dressed nice,hair done,and smiling. Why is she not wearing the old sweats and tshirt with the food stains on, is there another man?,can she be over me? Trust me,name one man that loves to hear his wife is over him. The only ones I know are the nes that stalk their husbands every move and that you aint!


I wish I could give him those jolts, but he's only had a few tiny ones. I guess when he saw that I had dragged out the curio cabinet that used to hold all of our pictures and wedding mementos. Then he came to the house last Tuesday and saw his pictures taken down. Probably some reality started to hit. I really can't change the locks, but I really hate that he has the freedom to come here during the day. I feel violated. But he did ask son if I sold any of his stuff at the garage sale! LOL. 



> Let him wonder. Do stuff for you! Because let's face it, us moms always neglect ourselves. You can't help the visitation schedule but you can make good with the time you got. Why do you want to pack his stuff? I would say hey, I am taking the kids all weekend to mom's if you would like to clear out your stuff. Let him pack! Have some flowers with the missing card stick in your bedroom by your side of the bed. Take anything with you,documents,lawyer cards,laptop so he can't snoop. You can even ask him to leave his keys to the house and car. Stay one step ahead. Never let him blind side you with his nonsense. He is acting like a five year old. What do mom's tell their five year olds? If you can't play nice and be respectful,you can have a time out to think about it. By the way, when he sends son in to ask you something, don't send son out saying if daddy wans to talk to me he can do it himself. Say if dad needs to talk to me,I am in the kitchen. That way you are not putting son in the middle and your son sees you as being polite,not angry.


I don't know if I could be that ballsy yet with the telling him to get his crap. I think he knows this though, which is why he texted me that comment about how he was just waiting for me to tell him when to get his stuff. I would take pleasure in packing it for him. And just leaving it in the garage in boxes. But I don't want to be blindsided by his shenanigans. I like taking son out of the middle. The flowers would probably drive him crazy. I've been carrying around my lawyer paperwork and laptop already. Nothing ehre to see except all my marriage advice books. I really want to paint the bedroom and get new bed coverings. And I'm wanting to do something with 
my hair. 


Thanks for the encouragement, your post made me smile. I CAN do this. I can. I don't need him, and I don't want him. I'm better off without him. I can hold my head proud knowing that I was a good wife and I upheld my vows. But do I stand my ground and keep moving on, but not file for divorce? I really think that he should be the one to file since he is the one who wants this. But I want him to know I'm not his doormat and won't be here waiting for him. Fine balancing act, I suppose. And I would love to go out and get some attention. I need a self esteem boost.


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## turnera

Why can you not change the locks? Because you have not filed for legal separation yet.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Why can you not change the locks? Because you have not filed for legal separation yet.


We don't have legal separation here. He owns the house, too, so I can't lock him out. When he files, I think the lawyer said I can because then it's like abandonment or something. Only thing I can do now is roll the garage door opener code, which would be enough of a jolt, so he'd still be able to get in the front door with a key. He was here today. I don't want him here. He gets all the privacy in the world, and I have NONE. He can get in my car, my house, my things. I don't like it one bit.

ETA: The lawyer told me if I change the locks then he can break a window to get in and I couldn't do anything about it. Not sure if he knows that, but he seems to like just stopping by when we aren't here.


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## turnera

So, if you were to file for divorce and claim he has changed residency, you cannot change the locks?


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## Jellybeans

Re: the locks. You will have to check w/ a lawyer to see what you are "legally able" to do.

My H changed the locks on me before a separation agreement was even drawn up. He was not "legally" entitled to do that but did anyway. That being said, it was a long time before I ever step foot in our house after that. 

You can't move on until you give up all "hope" of getting back together.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> So, if you were to file for divorce and claim he has changed residency, you cannot change the locks?


I think what the lawyer told me was that if I were to file first, I could have them draw up some order asking for temporary possession of the marital home. Then I could change the locks. But he could file and ask for the same, but she said I'd probably get it since he left the house. He also hasn't taken much from the house except half his clothes, some Wii games, his fishing pole, and the motorcycle seat for two. That's what is so weird. Not sure if it's just a matter of where things would be kept or what. 



Jellybeans said:


> Re: the locks. You will have to check w/ a lawyer to see what you are "legally able" to do.
> 
> My H changed the locks on me before a separation agreement was even drawn up. He was not "legally" entitled to do that but did anyway. That being said, it was a long time before I ever step foot in our house after that.
> 
> You can't move on until you give up all "hope" of getting back together.


I talked to a lawyer about it and her advice was to not change the locks. But she did say I needed to get my car key back. 

I am giving up hope. But does that mean forever? Like what IF things changed, then could I have hope? I am working on this one. It's the hardest part.


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## Jellybeans

Check it out -- If you let go since he's moving on and saying he's done (you have no other choice really, but to move on) and he comes back some day and shows you he's 100% committed to you, then awesome. If you let go and he continues down his path, it's not your problem. And you will be living your life for you, not waiting for some dude to "wake up" and/or change his mind about whether or not he wants to be with you.

You deserve to be loved, cherished, and w/ someone who can appreciate you, all of you, and not be scratching his head over whether or not he wants to stay in a marriage w/ you or not.

DO get your car key back.


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## Sas581011

Emotional detachment can happen through a tapping technique.
It's extremely effective. Go research eft on the web. It can even
Be used on your kids in times of need. Remember self confidence
is usually built or destroyed through childhood and media. Try some
of these, just give it a bash and it's fun.

1. From now on brush your teeth with your other hand
2. Switch the knife and fork when you eat, it will allow better
digestion and ignite your senses
3. Keep a daily journal where all those nice words can be written
4. Rearrange and change the house around.
5. Talk a walk barefoot
6. Meditate - I can send you some good self meditation techniques
7. Set goals, really easy ones. I.e. You will complete handstand 
Against the wall for 2 minutes.
8. Take different routes each day to work, shop etc...
9. Eat with a blindfold
10. Buy a piece of art that disturbs you
11. Say your problems out load

People will think i'm crazy when posting this, try it not all just a few
and discover by doing something different will trigger the brain
to experience a new result, same for relationships, we continue
Doing the same things however always desire a different result.

Challenge yourself, give it a bash, here's one, how much does
Love weigh and what if love was your favorite color, green. What
Does love sound like and if it were to be viewed from a distance
How long would it take you to get there, alot longer if you were
Blindfolded. 

Just some input, iv'e been called crazy by many people yet charming.
Now would't you think they were crazy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I talked to a lawyer about it and her advice was to not change the locks.


Did you tell her that he was continuing to go into your house when you were gone? I imagine her answer would be different with that information.

What about a security system? You need one anyway - go ahead and call ADT or someone and get them to install one at least on the doors. Won't cost much, about $20/month. And he'll get the hint really quick, when the alarm sounds and he doesn't know the code.

You say you want to move on. This is moving on.


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## Jellybeans

^ Agreed. 

He doesn't get the privilege of waltzing in whenever the frick he wants. He made his choice so now he needs to live w/ it.


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## turnera

Sas, that's great advice. It really does work. It's our hardwiring (our brain moving on autopilot from what has always worked) that KEEPS us from shifting our minds.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Did you tell her that he was continuing to go into your house when you were gone? I imagine her answer would be different with that information.
> 
> What about a security system? You need one anyway - go ahead and call ADT or someone and get them to install one at least on the doors. Won't cost much, about $20/month. And he'll get the hint really quick, when the alarm sounds and he doesn't know the code.
> 
> You say you want to move on. This is moving on.


Yeah, she was a really good lawyer. I'll be hiring her when the divorce is filed. We told her how he was coming in and she said as long as he's not damaging things there really isn't anything I can do. I thought about buying one of those alarm things, where it isn't an actual like ADT system, but it alerts when a door or window opens. He'd freak out. I'd need to set up a camera to record that, because it would be classic and could win me some money on AFV! 

It's weird, but he seems to be waiting for me to tell him to get his stuff and get out. Not sure why, but I'll just carry along. I really do want to pack his things for him. That way it's all ready to go for him when he does come to collect. He doesn't really care about how he's making me feel, so that way it can be like my own therapy in removing him from MY house. I can't tell you how therapeutic it was to pack up our wedding things and drag the cabinet out that has held it all for 10 years.


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## LonelyNLost

Sas, that is interesting. I'll have to try some of those.  

And JB, I do deserve better. I really do. And it would take a LOT for me to see him as the man I married. And even then, I'm not sure I can live with the constant fear and reminder of all this. He's cheated before, this time he left while insisting he's not cheating, what next?


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## Sas581011

Maybe he left cause he choose to. Insistece is reassurance for
him, behaviour and reaction from you, just a no no. You do deserve
better!!! He will maybe also get better but truth be said never better
Than you, if there is another woman your best revenge is for her to
Keep him. He is acting like a child seriously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sas581011

Whats easier to do, looking in front of you or behind you, now try 
Walking forward while keeping your focus behind you all the time. 
It' scary, there could be car approaching or a wall in front and you
Will never know right? Thats why moving forward is so hard cause
We always watch our back, we are tired of getting kicked in the butt
And it hurts, truth is all you have to do is turn your head, you will see
The obstacles ahead but will always know what to do, avoid the car and
Jump the wall, once you've done that you wont have to look back
cause it's accomplished. The point is when we look back we most 
Likely will always get knocked over and walk into barriers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BIP

tamara24 said:


> hat a lonely birthday for him,let his mommy take care of him.
> 
> Turnera is sooooo right about us gravitating to the people who make us feel good. That being said, he had every responsibility to talk to you about your marraige and any needs he needed met. He also needed to take responsibilty to make himself happy as you can't do that for him(yep Turnera had to beat me. Upside the head with that one). Think of it like this, you can come home to wife and kids with preasures of being a hubby, dad,caretaker,provider,lover,garbage picker upper,bill payer,and lawn mower boy or you can have the shiny NEW toy that reminds you of youth,is too far away to deal with you on a daily basis so arguing is nonexsisitant,you feel like a stud since everything you do makes this new toy smile and compliment you. She doesn't do your laundry with the skid marks,ask you to fix the kitchen faucet,wipe the snot off a kid's nose,babysit,or demand that you not watch the football game cause the lawn is higher than your knees.
> This will only change when he wakes up and says wait a minute,my wife is funny,gorgeous,great mom and isn't looking at me as just a paycheck. She loves me skid marks and all! If you tell the kids you are sad,mad,he just feels that old chain hanging around his neck.
> 
> I don't feel he deserves you,but I do not live in your shoes,nor do I have any reason to judge you if you want to work it out. You are the only person that can make that choice. Nothing will change until he gets a few jolts. No way to know what your doing,no way to get into the house to snoop,the kids are reporting how mommy is so happy and she is not mad at daddy,when he does get glimpses of you,you are dressed nice,hair done,and smiling. Why is she not wearing the old sweats and tshirt with the food stains on, is there another man?,can she be over me? Trust me,name one man that loves to hear his wife is over him. The only ones I know are the nes that stalk their husbands every move and that you aint!
> 
> Let him wonder. Do stuff for you! Because let's face it, us moms always neglect ourselves. You can't help the visitation schedule but you can make good with the time you got. Why do you want to pack his stuff? I would say hey, I am taking the kids all weekend to mom's if you would like to clear out your stuff. Let him pack! Have some flowers with the missing card stick in your bedroom by your side of the bed. Take anything with you,documents,lawyer cards,laptop so he can't snoop. You can even ask him to leave his keys to the house and car. Stay one step ahead. Never let him blind side you with his nonsense. He is acting like a five year old. What do mom's tell their five year olds? If you can't play nice and be respectful,you can have a time out to think about it. By the way, when he sends son in to ask you something, don't send son out saying if daddy wans to talk to me he can do it himself. Say if dad needs to talk to me,I am in the kitchen. That way you are not putting son in the middle and your son sees you as being polite,not angry.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is all great perspective and advice for me, too. Thanks!


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## LonelyNLost

This is all so sad. I posted one of JB's quotes as my status on facebook. And H and I have a mutual friend that was a female friend of his in high school. I've never met her but she friended me on facebook awhile back, seems like a really sweet, religious girl. She just messaged me reaching out and saying she'll pray for us, though she doesn't know anything because H hasn't contacted her. She just noticed my posts. I told her the gist, but said I have to let go and put this in God's hands. I hope she doesn't reach out to him, too. But it's just a reminder of how many people have no idea what's happened to our idyllic marriage. Crazy.


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## tamara24

On the note that he is coming into the home while you are not there. Maybe you can't legally change locks but you can say something to him such as I would appreciate a heads up if you plan on entering the house. You moved out and have a new living arrangement,then you should respect mine. This will give him a little jolt. Jolts don't have to be the legal aspects,they can be anything about you. New hair,smiling,taking control,are things you have not been doing cause of the situation. When he picks up the kids, be dressed up. If he says anything, I am going to dinner since you have the kids tonight. With who? Just friends. You don't owe him explanations.

As far as filing,let him do it. He is too busy trying to have his cake and eat it too. As long as he thinks he can do this,you can bet he isn't going to file. By saying things like,whenever you want me to move my stuff out, you know he is trying to let you take control so he can play the victim. My wife had me move my stuff out,she told me to get it. 

Sending the pic isn't rubbing it in. He had the oppurtunity to come,he CHOSE not to. It will remind him of what he missed. Make him a little lonely, but I think he could do with a little humilty.just smile big!

Your doing great, it is easier for us to see your situation because we are on the outside looking in. You are in the midst. Change the tables a bit and keep him guessing. Good move on moving the car!hehe!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> On the note that he is coming into the home while you are not there. Maybe you can't legally change locks but you can say something to him such as I would appreciate a heads up if you plan on entering the house. You moved out and have a new living arrangement,then you should respect mine. This will give him a little jolt. Jolts don't have to be the legal aspects,they can be anything about you. New hair,smiling,taking control,are things you have not been doing cause of the situation. When he picks up the kids, be dressed up. If he says anything, I am going to dinner since you have the kids tonight. With who? Just friends. You don't owe him explanations.
> 
> As far as filing,let him do it. He is too busy trying to have his cake and eat it too. As long as he thinks he can do this,you can bet he isn't going to file. By saying things like,whenever you want me to move my stuff out, you know he is trying to let you take control so he can play the victim. My wife had me move my stuff out,she told me to get it.
> 
> Sending the pic isn't rubbing it in. He had the oppurtunity to come,he CHOSE not to. It will remind him of what he missed. Make him a little lonely, but I think he could do with a little humilty.just smile big!
> 
> Your doing great, it is easier for us to see your situation because we are on the outside looking in. You are in the midst. Change the tables a bit and keep him guessing. Good move on moving the car!hehe!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You make it all sound so easy! The thing is, he doesn't come within 20 feet of me and doesn't converse with me at all. A couple weeks ago when he first mentioned being "done" via text message, he had the kids two days later. I dressed in this nice dress and had my hair and makeup all done up, and walked out to grab the kids and he wouldn't look me in the face and was very fidgety. He didn't have his ring on.  I kept it together and went inside and just said "tell daddy goodbye". Did I mention he keeps his wedding band on his keyring according to our son? Just plain odd. No conversing in person or even on the phone whatsoever. He'd never ask what I was doing or who with.

I have the same feeling about filing. He wants me to go to a mediator, wants me to sign child time-sharing agreements, etc. but hasn't filed. Wants me to tell him when to pack and get his stuff. Just weird. I feel like he wants to push me so that I'm the one to file so he can say it was me who wanted it. He pretty much did that with moving out. I told him we both needed to sit down together and tell the kids and then give them a few days so they can ask questions. Guess what? I ended up telling him not to come back after days of him leaving after they were in bed and coming home before they woke. Then I had the convo with them. He never did. And still hasn't said anything. Our son asked him a week ago, "When are you coming home?" and his response was, "I don't know. Things are going to be like this for awhile." He's not taking the opportunity to discuss things with them. Just wants it to be all fun. 

He would find it really odd if we went a picture of us. There are no nice just for nothing texts nowadays. It's all business. Or venom, lol. We're in the toxic zone.  What would the caption be? "Wish you were here!" I need him to keep guessing on my state of mind. Like last week when I replied to his request of mediation by email by asking for marriage counseling instead, he didn't respond. But he did send that weird text saying our daughter looks more like me each day and asking if I wanted some ice cream. I just don't know what to do from one minute to the next. I bet he'll ask our son where my car was this morning, though! LOL. I told son that I didn't want daddy in my car because I have no privacy. I didn't know how else to explain it. Hope that wasn't a bad choice. Guess I need to balls up and ask for my car key back.


----------



## tamara24

He has screwed up royaly! He is in the fog,but reality is hitting. He feels guilty and it is too hard tosay I am sorry. He doesn't know what he wants. The shiny new toy looks so appealing but the old teddy brings comfort,stability and love. After everything he has done,he is second guessing. That is why he wants to call ya to ask stupid questions,gives confusing messages,has a wedding band on a key ring. He isn't ready to let you go. But he knows his actions have been horrible,why would you want him back? 

First you need to take care of you. If you decide you want this to work out,you most likely will end up taking the first steps. Since you are unsure,he is being a jerk,then you need to take control. This isn't a woman verses man thing. I would say the same thing to him if you were acting like him. I think you deserve better, but let's face it. You love him,he is your kids dad and you have to decide not any of us. You still need to set boundries,but you can still keep him guessing.

Why won't he look at you? Cause he betrayed you and your family in the worst possible way.he is ashamed. He was your best friend and he ruined it.

Go back to the thought that we gravitate to people who make us feel good. You can still keep your boundries,he hurt you.But your entire marraige didn't come down to just the last six or so months. You had good times and there is nothing wrong with breaking the ice with laughter. He remember when we took little Joe to Disney and he thought Goofy was stalking him? Tell him something funny about today that he missed. I wish you could have seen little Jill's face today when she saw the princesses. Her eyes were as big as saucers. She hasn't stopped talking about Snow White so be prepared when you see her.....

Just keep your boundries,do not reply to his mad texting. Demand respect. Don't go into feelings,I miss you,I feel are off limits. I wish you could have seen says,you were asked you chose not to go. You missed....

None of this is easy. I hate playing games. It took me years to get respect from hubby. I am just now learning how to voice my likes,dislikes and needs. Now I can't stop. I have read posts on this sight for a year and it seems the confused spouses have the same type of patterns. I am no expert on anything.I am just telling you what I see. My dad cheated and manipulated my mom for years. I have heard every story imaginable. He never felt bad about anything but he sure was good at turning all the stuff he did into my mom's and my fault. That is why I see the manipulation and remeber wishing for my mom to take control. She tries now,but he has no respect for her. Now and she has none for herself. You don't want to go down the path.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> He has screwed up royaly! He is in the fog,but reality is hitting. He feels guilty and it is too hard tosay I am sorry. He doesn't know what he wants. The shiny new toy looks so appealing but the old teddy brings comfort,stability and love. After everything he has done,he is second guessing. That is why he wants to call ya to ask stupid questions,gives confusing messages,has a wedding band on a key ring. He isn't ready to let you go. But he knows his actions have been horrible,why would you want him back?
> 
> First you need to take care of you. If you decide you want this to work out,you most likely will end up taking the first steps. Since you are unsure,he is being a jerk,then you need to take control. This isn't a woman verses man thing. I would say the same thing to him if you were acting like him. I think you deserve better, but let's face it. You love him,he is your kids dad and you have to decide not any of us. You still need to set boundries,but you can still keep him guessing.
> 
> Why won't he look at you? Cause he betrayed you and your family in the worst possible way.he is ashamed. He was your best friend and he ruined it.
> 
> Go back to the thought that we gravitate to people who make us feel good. You can still keep your boundries,he hurt you.But your entire marraige didn't come down to just the last six or so months. You had good times and there is nothing wrong with breaking the ice with laughter. He remember when we took little Joe to Disney and he thought Goofy was stalking him? Tell him something funny about today that he missed. I wish you could have seen little Jill's face today when she saw the princesses. Her eyes were as big as saucers. She hasn't stopped talking about Snow White so be prepared when you see her.....
> 
> Just keep your boundries,do not reply to his mad texting. Demand respect. Don't go into feelings,I miss you,I feel are off limits. I wish you could have seen says,you were asked you chose not to go. You missed....
> 
> None of this is easy. I hate playing games. It took me years to get respect from hubby. I am just now learning how to voice my likes,dislikes and needs. Now I can't stop. I have read posts on this sight for a year and it seems the confused spouses have the same type of patterns. I am no expert on anything.I am just telling you what I see. My dad cheated and manipulated my mom for years. I have heard every story imaginable. He never felt bad about anything but he sure was good at turning all the stuff he did into my mom's and my fault. That is why I see the manipulation and remeber wishing for my mom to take control. She tries now,but he has no respect for her. Now and she has none for herself. You don't want to go down the path.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really don't know if reality is hitting. I just don't think so. He's the type of person that once he sets his mind to something he goes for it. He had warned me that we needed to separate because he was getting closer to "the edge" and once there he couldn't go back. Then in text he told me I had pushed him to "the edge" and it was the point of no return. He's said over and over again we are irreconcilable. The first couple times I countered with forgiveness and such, but the last time I didn't acknowledge it. I think you're referring to the scorched earth mentality, and I definitely think he's got it.

Tonight, he decided to block me from facebook, so now it's like he doesn't exist. So mature. He must really have some new "friends" to hide. I blocked the OW last night and went to block him, but when I did it unmarried me to him. So I unblocked it to try to fix it but I couldn't, and it made me wait 48 hours before blocking again. So he beat me to it I guess. Better off that way, he doesn't have to see my face since now I don't show up. But whatever. It's like he's pushing to see if I respond. He might have noticed he wasn't married to me anymore. Who knows. 

I don't know how to throw in a "I wish you could have seen..." because there is NO talking on the phone. Just texts and those are few and far between. I guess I could text him that. When the kids call they take my phone and vice versa. The other night when he asked about the clothes, that was the first time he'd talked to me in weeks. I didn't even get a "bye". I haven't told him I missed him or that I loved him in a long while. So he isn't getting any sugar from me. There is no cake eating, I'm unavailable. I guess I could be more "present" when he comes to get the kids. Instead of sending them out to him waiting at the end of the walkway I can walk them all the way out and smile and say hello and try to get him to look me in the eyes. Last week I walked out and he looked startled. Very uncomfortable. I hate that this has become so toxic, I really do. Our marriage is dead in the water. But I do need respect, which is why I haven't even asked him to talk. He's so angry.


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## LonelyNLost

I don't know why I torture myself. I feel that the OW is taunting me. She made her wall visible to everyone. And she posts a heart and then "When you know you know" and another heart. Of course, H "likes" it. And then everyone comments, "And you know!".  So flipping obvious. I hate it. I feel like texting him, "When you know you know, and I know the truth. Too bad I didn't hear it from you."

ETA: Her wall is only visible to friends of friends. So my son's account can see it because he's friends with H's mom. Love how he blocked me. Craziness. I need to stop looking, I need to get rid of this obsession!


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## BluePink

The OW my H was having an EA with was posting crap on her wall all throughout their affair that I didn't know or realize was aimed at MY H until waaaay later! I thought it was just her being artsy! (The OW had also been a friend of mine as well...I'll never trust again I don't think...betrayed by both of them!)

During valentines month she posted a picture of candy hearts with the main one saying "I love you" and a chocolate Dove candy wrapper saying "Forget the rules and play by your heart". 

What does that say about her, huh?


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## tamara24

My friend has a hubby that says the samme stuff to her. He swore he never cheated and one night in the middle of some intimate moments and some drinks,he calls out the OW's name. She confronted him with it the next day and he turned it all on her and denied doing it. HELLO! She still makes excuses for him. I love her to death but really? I know what your saying by he makes his mind up and no going back and he says you pushed him to the edge. But really,do you believe you did that? No,he did that. You are responsible for. For your mistakes in the marraige but you did not drag him to the car and drive him off the cliff. His guilt,his lies and his treatment of you did that. He can only make you feel bad for that if you let him. You have every right to feel and say what you did. He betrayed you.

He avoids you like the plague cause he is wrong,he can't be the victim and he doesn't know what you have said to friends and family. Humility is a hard pill to swallow. Either he will swallow it or he won't. That is why the first priority for you right now is YOU. If that means protecting yourself than so be it. If you don't want to work on this anymore,than proceed as you see fit. 

He is not the same person you knew. This person may or may not want to come back but he KNOWS he did wrong. It is not about just forgiveness but giving a way to come back with keeping his dignity. There lies the crux of the matter. Pride. If he really felt like he was totally in the right and you were a witch,then he would have no prob talking to you,looking at you. By the way, you are so wrong to think he did not notice your dress. He isn't going to let you see his WOW moment. He can't see what your thinking,feeling so now it is bugging him. You are controling and he has lost control. 

You don't need to call/text him for trivial stuff or to talk. But you can't stay at stalemate for ever.you do have kids,they will graduate,get married and have kids of their own. Do you think he will sit in the corner and sulk at you then? Right now work on you,stay indifferent yet cool and calm. Make him work at the feelings he wants to ignore. Jealousy can certainly break the fog but it can backfire just as well. Leaving. Him guessing,and unsure is ok,just never lie about who you are with, cause that can start doubts. You just want to keep him guessing not. Hurt him or you will not be any better than him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24

Don't torture yourself block her page. She is just trash. The more she taunts you,she thinks she is securing him more to her than to you.

You,have stuff she does not. Years of intimate knowledge of him,kids and memories. She is grasping at straws. If you let her get into your head,nothing you do will matter cause you will fail before you begin.

You can do it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

BluePink said:


> The OW my H was having an EA with was posting crap on her wall all throughout their affair that I didn't know or realize was aimed at MY H until waaaay later! I thought it was just her being artsy! (The OW had also been a friend of mine as well...I'll never trust again I don't think...betrayed by both of them!)
> 
> During valentines month she posted a picture of candy hearts with the main one saying "I love you" and a chocolate Dove candy wrapper saying "Forget the rules and play by your heart".
> 
> What does that say about her, huh?


Seriously nauseating! Wow. Right in front of your face! I was friends with OW for a bit after she posted that the place she'd most like to visit was our town (she lives 2500 miles away and our town is not known in the least). But I deleted her when she blocked me from her wall back when H disappeared for 5 days. Man I'm stupid.



tamara24 said:


> Don't torture yourself block her page. She is just trash. The more she taunts you,she thinks she is securing him more to her than to you.
> 
> You,have stuff she does not. Years of intimate knowledge of him,kids and memories. She is grasping at straws. If you let her get into your head,nothing you do will matter cause you will fail before you begin.
> 
> You can do it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has to be taunting, even though she's now blocked from MY page, but not my other accounts. She has to be slightly insecure, but I guess she feels priviliged in that "first love" position. She's had 2 failed marriages. To quote her, "true love never dies, it only grows stronger with time"  

I won't acknowledge it. I'll just take that knowledge and put it on the list that makes me hate him. I didn't push him to the edge. He felt the temptation and acted on it. He chose to give in to his weakness and betray me. I pushed him away because I got too close to finding the truth. His cake eating days were coming to an end so he took the easy way out.

I'm just going to leave him wondering. He is very concerned about what everyone thinks, even though he says he doesn't care. It all boils down to pride. And scorched earth. And egos. Not sure how to break stalemate. I guess time?


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> This is all so sad. I posted one of JB's quotes as my status on facebook.


::Blinks eyes and beams like a child who's won the spelling bee::

I've been published! Do tell what quote you used! LOL. 



LonelyNLost said:


> I don't know why I torture myself. I feel that the OW is taunting me. She made her wall visible to everyone. And she posts a heart and then "When you know you know" and another heart. Of course, H "likes" it.


What a hag. And you bet your bottom dollar she is making it public so you can see it. DO NOT react. Do not give either of them the pleasure. What kind of woman is she that she has to publically proclaim she's carrying on with a married father? LOL. Seriously. Right now it stings but one day you'll look back and laugh and cringe at the same time. For real!

Lonely, for your sake, STOP looking at her page. Completely. Out of sight, out of mind.


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> ::Blinks eyes and beams like a child who's won the spelling bee::
> 
> I've been published! Do tell what quote you used! LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> What a hag. And you bet your bottom dollar she is making it public so you can see it. DO NOT react. Do not give either of them the pleasure. What kind of woman is she that she has to publically proclaim she's carrying on with a married father? LOL. Seriously. Right now it stings but one day you'll look back and laugh and cringe at the same time. For real!
> 
> Lonely, for your sake, STOP looking at her page. Completely. Out of sight, out of mind.


^^
Agree. If that makes her proud - his prize is his punishment!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24

Delete your account for awhile start upagain after you have concluded this mess.

She has been divorced twice and is carrying on with a married man. Trash,trailer tash. Don't even give her quality time in your head. When ya know trash ya know it!

So now, your mad,did you grow your balls? Go get your keys to the car back and asking him politley to stay out of your home unless the meeting is prearranged. He moved out and you are entitled to privacy. Look him in the eye. No texts or over the phone. YOU are not a coward and if he wants the trailer trash cause he can't see that a relationship 2500 miles away,with a woman with her background is doomed,he does not need to to take you or your family with him.

Sending you hugs and prayers!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

^ I agree.



tamara24 said:


> Delete your account for awhile start upagain after you have concluded this mess.
> 
> She has been divorced twice and is carrying on with a married man. *Trash,trailer tash.*


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

The next time he comes to pick up the kiddos, tell him "H, I need my car keys back and from now on you need to call before you come over or knock on the door before coming in." 

Short, concise, to the point.

Hey check it out--she gets to end up with a dude who walked out on his family. I know it hurts you but actually I pity her. :lol:


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## tamara24

Now pack his clothes. When he gets it,like it on facebook. Husband got his stuff and his trashy girl friend too!LIKE! Haha! Don't do it, just think about it and get a good laugh.

Make sure you tell him to have a nice day after you take your keys. Remember little Mary sunshine! If he refuses to give them to you, just say,ok. You do realize that the police comes when the alarm goes off in the house and I plan to get one right away. Without you there, I just feel safer with the kids if I have one. Have a great day!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Lonely, I just want to tell you -- immediately following my separation, I got OFF FB and haven't ben back on sense. My H got on and had a million women friends, including The Wh-re. I could see his page via my sis' but a few months ago I decided, "No more."

What I am saying is there is NOTHING wrong with getting off FB so you can clear your head. You are not at a place where you're strong enough to deal with this mess yet and being on FB and seeing his and her posts is going to do more damage than good. FB is laced w/ so much drama is you're going through a divorce or separation. It ain't worth it, baby!


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## tamara24

Jellybeans,

You are one smart lady! Facebook is the root of all evil. Stay in the light!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

LOL , Tamara.

I could probably get back on now but I kinda being incognito.


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## Shianne

Not the root of all evil. Just block until it is your own happy little world


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> ::Blinks eyes and beams like a child who's won the spelling bee::
> 
> I've been published! Do tell what quote you used! LOL.
> 
> What a hag. And you bet your bottom dollar she is making it public so you can see it. DO NOT react. Do not give either of them the pleasure. What kind of woman is she that she has to publically proclaim she's carrying on with a married father? LOL. Seriously. Right now it stings but one day you'll look back and laugh and cringe at the same time. For real!
> 
> Lonely, for your sake, STOP looking at her page. Completely. Out of sight, out of mind.


I used this one, "Everything about holding on is torturous. You regret, you feel ashamed and guilty, you rehash, you obsess—it’s all an exercise in suffering. The only way to feel peace is to quiet the thoughts that threaten it. Letting go opens you up to new possibilities." It's my new mantra. :smthumbup:

I have no clue what to think of that status. Her friend says it's great that she knows what she wants. Um, okay?! Not sure if she knew I could see it but I know she made it so others can see it, like any of his friends. Would love to see what she posted for his birthday today. 

I'm really trying not to look at anything on facebook. But then people are like, "did you look at the pages he liked? one of them is 'what's our story in case we get caught'" and I'm just over it all. He's using facebook as his sick little game. I'm not playing it. 



golfergirl said:


> ^^
> Agree. If that makes her proud - his prize is his punishment!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This made me laugh and grin an evil grin. Good way of looking at it. I think they are both a glutton for punishment in some way shape or form.


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> She has been divorced twice and is carrying on with a married man. Trash,trailer tash. Don't even give her quality time in your head. *When ya know trash ya know it!*
> 
> So now, your mad,did you grow your balls? Go get your keys to the car back and asking him politley to stay out of your home unless the meeting is prearranged. He moved out and you are entitled to privacy. Look him in the eye. No texts or over the phone. YOU are not a coward and if he wants the trailer trash cause he can't see that a relationship 2500 miles away,with a woman with her background is doomed,he does not need to to take you or your family with him.


Oh my, that was a good one! Yes, trash would be putting it mildly. They are both delusional. And her idea of a marriage is a joke. 

I'm working on growing my balls.  I will look him in the eye from now on and be happy go lucky. And no more texting crap. I think I will just prance into his work and demand my keys back and give him his car key and his parent's house key back. I am sick of feeling violated and like I'm about to walk into a landmine each time I come home.




Jellybeans said:


> The next time he comes to pick up the kiddos, tell him "H, I need my car keys back and from now on you need to call before you come over or knock on the door before coming in."
> 
> Short, concise, to the point.
> 
> Hey check it out--she gets to end up with a dude who walked out on his family. I know it hurts you but actually I pity her. :lol:


Love it. She's just telling herself she's special and his one true love. He doesn't come in if I'm here, but I need to nip the coming and going when I'm not here in the bud. Working on my angle, time and place, for that one. 




tamara24 said:


> Now pack his clothes. When he gets it,like it on facebook. Husband got his stuff and his trashy girl friend too!LIKE! Haha! Don't do it, just think about it and get a good laugh.
> 
> Make sure you tell him to have a nice day after you take your keys. Remember little Mary sunshine! If he refuses to give them to you, just say,ok. You do realize that the police comes when the alarm goes off in the house and I plan to get one right away. Without you there, I just feel safer with the kids if I have one. Have a great day!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought about it and laughed. We are totally blocked from each other so he wouldn't see it if I did that anyhow. 

Love the bit about the alarm. I'm going to call the company my uncle works for and find out how much an alarm would be. Not a bad idea, and a great set up. I wouldn't be keeping him from his house, but he'd have some explaining to do if he tried to come in, LOL. 



Jellybeans said:


> What I am saying is there is NOTHING wrong with getting off FB so you can clear your head. You are not at a place where you're strong enough to deal with this mess yet and being on FB and seeing his and her posts is going to do more damage than good. FB is laced w/ so much drama is you're going through a divorce or separation. It ain't worth it, baby!


I need my facebook. I use it to keep in touch with so much family and friends. A lot of my support is on there. And our awesome TAM group on there holds me together when I need urgent help. It's one place where I know everyone is on my side. Well, at least now!  I can't see his or her posts unless I log into my fake account. I just need to stop doing that. 

But yes FACEBOOK IS THE DEVIL! I posted that as my status a month ago and he got mad with one of my guy friend's response which was, "You're such a cynic. It isn't facebook, it's user error or lack of judgement." H took that to mean that the guy friend knew everything and it was directed at him. Guilty much?


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## LonelyNLost

Oh, almost forgot my update for today. The kids and I had a blast! Got up early, got them ready, and my daughter was so excited to go see Mickey. Ran up to work and tied up some loose ends, stopped to get money and breakfast, and then got on the road. Funny thing, though. On the interstate on the way there, we were going the exact route H takes to work. And this car was broke down in the left lane, so I had to go onto the shoulder to go around at the exact moment H was passing in the opposite direction. Weird. Hope he saw us! 

I am fully capable of having a loving and fulfilling relationship with my kids. I can handle this. I am their security and I'm going to make sure they know that. I got so many snuggles and love and sweetness from my kids today. I feel like a million dollars. Remember how today is H's 34th birthday? Well, hope it was miserable. I had the kids call as we got in the car to leave at 8pm, and neither of them wished him a happy birthday. I'm sure he's cursing me for that. All they could talk about was how much fun they had. My daughter went on and on about me. I think he asked her if she missed him and she said, "no I miss momma." Boy, if that isn't reality I don't know what is. Hope he had fun sitting at home with his mom. Hope he missed the homemade birthday cake decorated by his family, and the decorations and balloons, and the cards and the presents and the love. 

He comes to get them tomorrow for an hour at 6pm since he couldn't have them today. Wonder what he's got to throw at me now. I really want to pack up his things before this weekend. Because I bet he's banking on me going out of town and I don't want to come home to surprises. He has the pack n play that I usually take out of town. Wonder if he is waiting for me to ask for it, which would tell him if we ARE going out of town or not. I will do without just to keep him guessing. 

So, lovely day had by all. Well, the 3 of us, since I can't speak for him. The kids and I are going to be fine. Had a nice little chat with son about being able to say that he feels in the middle. Told him how I don't want him to feel that way and I'm doing my best, but I need him to tell me if he ever feels that way so I can stop. He actually got into a conversation about wanting another brother and sister at some point, which was odd. Basically ended up being about how daddy can't give him that with another wife, but I can give him that with another husband. Strange conversation. Weird to even think about, and I can't believe he went there. Kids!


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Remember how today is H's 34th birthday? Well, hope it was miserable.


:rofl:

My advice is do not go to his job. When he comes today to get the kids, then you can tell him the thing about giving you your car keys back and that he needs to knock on the door when he comes over. No emotions, ok?

If you stay on FB: do not look at him or her pages. They are idiots. Keep repeating that to yourself. Also, stop posting stuff about what is going on, even things like "moving on" or "thi sis so hard"--no no no. Be mysterious and don't involve your separation stuff on there. That is for you only.

Re: the kids--don't badmouth daddy. They are still his kids and will decide on their own about him. Just put your game face on and show them what an awesome mother and woman you are. You are their role model, their mentor, the main adult in their life so they will be looking to you for guidance and strength. So you must convey a happy/can handle anything attitude. Ok?


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl:
> 
> My advice is do not go to his job. When he comes today to get the kids, then you can tell him the thing about giving you your car keys back and that he needs to knock on the door when he comes over. No emotions, ok?
> 
> If you stay on FB: do not look at him or her pages. They are idiots. Keep repeating that to yourself. Also, stop posting stuff about what is going on, even things like "moving on" or "thi sis so hard"--no no no. Be mysterious and don't involve your separation stuff on there. That is for you only.
> 
> Re: the kids--don't badmouth daddy. They are still his kids and will decide on their own about him. Just put your game face on and show them what an awesome mother and woman you are. You are their role model, their mentor, the main adult in their life so they will be looking to you for guidance and strength. So you must convey a happy/can handle anything attitude. Ok?


I just think going to his job is the only way to keep him from blowing up and causing a scene, you know? And I could do it away from the kids. Right now, for whatever reason, I'm the enemy. I do need to have some sort of discussion with him because he took the registration renewal cards for all the cars, and they were due yesterday on his birthday, but I don't know if he renewed them. So I have an expired registration. I will go out with the keys and ask him to trade. Might make me sick to see his wedding band on his key ring, maybe he'll give me that back, too. Or maybe he took it off there. Not sure exactly what to say about the house. He might ask for his stuff back and I want to be the one to pack that crap so that I can give him all the cards/letters he ever gave to me and all the ones I ever gave to him. He might want to come tomorrow on his day off and go through everything. 

I've stopped on facebook with the status posts. My last one was about how my kids are my world and if I accomplish nothing more in this life I will know I have done right by them. I will be more mysterious. Not that anyone can really see my stuff that could relay it back to him except the best friend, but I really wouldn't care if he saw any of what I've put on there. I've got nothing to hide. 

And I'm not badmouthing daddy. Not at all. I'm just carrying on like he doesn't exist in my life anymore. Because he doesn't.


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## LonelyNLost

Kind of weird. You know how I said the female friend from high school who I have been facebook friends with for years even though we've never met and we never talk messaged me? Well I replied that I'd love the prayers and that my H needs God in his heart before he can ever be right. So she just wrote me back and said that he blocked her from seeing his wall because she went to wish him a happy birthday and couldn't. So she messaged him but said nothing of the situations. She says she guesses because we are facebook friends she is blocked? Weird. He's really going to all lengths and is extremely paranoid about who can see what. Must suck to have so much to hide.


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## Jellybeans

Going to his job would be WAY worse, Lonely. 

It would paint you as "pursuing" him and right now your emotions are NOT in check so this would be waaaay worse. Plus, what if you got there and he is swinging his d-ck around because you came to him even after him treating you like sh*t...just imagine him telling his co-worker boys "Look who showed up..she just doesn't get that it's over ", having his ego fed by your presence being there.

DO NOT GO TO HIS JOB, LONELY. Do it when he drops the kids off. Do not go out of your way at all to accomodate this man.

If you wrote taht message about your H needing God in his life on the friend's wall and H saw it, then it's no wonder he blocked her.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Going to his job would be WAY worse, Lonely.
> 
> It would paint you as "pursuing" him and right now your emotions are NOT in check so this would be waaaay worse. Plus, what if you got there and he is swinging his d-ck around because you came to him even after him treating you like sh*t...just imagine him telling his co-worker boys "Look who showed up..she just doesn't get that it's over ", having his ego fed by your presence being there.
> 
> DO NOT GO TO HIS JOB, LONELY. Do it when he drops the kids off. Do not go out of your way at all to accomodate this man.
> 
> If you wrote taht message about your H needing God in his life on the friend's wall and H saw it, then it's no wonder he blocked her.


Good point about the work thing. Another red flag I guess I always missed was how he didn't want his family coming into his work because people didn't need to know about his personal life. I always took it personal like he was embarrassed of me, but I think it's more of keeping things separate so he doesn't have to explain anything to anyone. He's a piece of work. 

Think the DMV would tell me if my car has been registered? I'm trying to figure out how to get it in my name as well. Not sure if it just goes by whose name is first on the title? I'm driving around with an expired registration.

No, I never wrote anything on her wall, except last week I wrote Happy Birthday because it was her birthday. H never even wished her a happy birthday on her wall. She messaged me like the email feature on there and I messaged her back. So he'd have no way of knowing we had talked at all. But he has this whole paranoia thing with thinking I'm out telling the world what a piece of crap he is. He doesn't get that people reach out to me because they see something is wrong and he's acting weird, and they draw their own conclusions. Most of them are pro-marriage, so of course he's in the wrong. He's the one walking out on his wife and kids.


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## Jellybeans

Yeah the DMV should be able to tell you if yoru are is registered and also get your registration re-instated. Don't want to get tickets for nonsense, ya know?


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## paperclip

In mass. You can check the status of your registration right on the interweb. You only need the license plate number.

Look at your RMV website and check!


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## LonelyNLost

paperclip said:


> In mass. You can check the status of your registration right on the interweb. You only need the license plate number.
> 
> Look at your RMV website and check!


Just looked it up and none of the vehicles have been renewed. :scratchhead: Guess he's too busy for that. He was off on Thursday, what's the big deal?! 

We are both on the title for my car, but I want the registration in my name now. I also don't want this tag he got me that's an extra $40. I guess I need to take a trip down to the DMV. My birthday is in September though, so would I have to pay again then?! 

All of this is such a mess. I hate that I have to go through it all. Makes me wanna break stuff!


----------



## Jellybeans

Renew them yourself. 

He does NOT have your best interest anymore, Lonely. You need to get that in your mind and drill it home. 

Protect yourself for YOU cause he's not going to do it anymore.

The thing about the title--you will have to ask them directly.

It's ok to want to break stuff. I have moments still where I feel violent. And I'm divored for 2.5 weeks now. :rofl:


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Renew them yourself.
> 
> He does NOT have your best interest anymore, Lonely. You need to get that in your mind and drill it home.
> 
> Protect yourself for YOU cause he's not going to do it anymore.
> 
> The thing about the title--you will have to ask them directly.
> 
> It's ok to want to break stuff. I have moments still where I feel violent. And I'm divored for 2.5 weeks now. :rofl:



Yeah, I was figuring I needed to do it myself. It's been that way with most things the last few years. 

He sucks. And that's putting it lightly.  

I'm not normally a violent person, but I won't lie. I've had some sick thoughts, LOL. You seem like you are in such a healthy state of mind. But your divorce is so fresh! Did it take awhile to go through?!


----------



## Jellybeans

I am glad I at least COME OFF as someone who is in a healthy state of mind cause it has taken me a loooong time to get here.  I just eventually had to accept that the divorce was going to happen, whether I wanted it or not and put my foot down and told him, "Ok, you get a divorce but you lose me forever."

Kapiche! 

And yes, my divorce start to finish took 1.5 long gruelling year. It did not help that we still were in talks every day, spending the night together, going on vacations, carrying on as normal.

In my case, he still wanted us to be together, but did want the divorce. So basically he wanted us to divorce and still carry on as the same. I told him "Absolutely not." He even invited me to go overseas w/ him to where we married one week before the divorce. I thanked him but said "No."


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I am glad I at least COME OFF as someone who is in a healthy state of mind cause it has taken me a loooong time to get here.  I just eventually had to accept that the divorce was going to happen, whether I wanted it or not and put my foot down and told him, "Ok, you get a divorce but you lose me forever."
> 
> Kapiche!
> 
> And yes, my divorce start to finish took 1.5 long gruelling year. It did not help that we still were in talks every day, spending the night together, going on vacations, carrying on as normal.
> 
> In my case, he still wanted us to be together, but did want the divorce. So basically he wanted us to divorce and still carry on as the same. I told him "Absolutely not." He even invited me to go overseas w/ him to where we married one week before the divorce. I thanked him but said "No."


Whoah, that's really weird. What's his deal? He didn't think you'd really walk away? I guess that's ultimate cake eating. I was thinking yesterday, if H had actually come along to Disney, how weird and awkward it would have been. No. Thank. You.


----------



## tamara24

Jellybeans is correct,no going to his job. It makes you look physco not him.

Lonely, facebook, even if you have a fake page, can still be to your disadvantage. There is a new program where you can see who is looking at your page. Your hubby and OW may well be idiots but they can add two and two together and "guess" that you are the one behind it. 

Ask the kids to stay in the house cause you need to talk to dad. Then go out before he can guess what is coming. Smile,say hello. I wanted to talk to you before the kids came out. Here are the keys to your car and house keys. I would like my car key and would appreciate it if you made arrangements. With me before coming to the house. You don't live her and I would like to enjoy thhe benefits of privacy just as you do. If he balks, don't argue. Simply state, ok, I am just giving you fair warning that I am adding an alarm system soon and the police will come when the alarm goes off,so I suggest you give me a heads up. Don't give dates,reasons,or argue. Just state that you are entitled to your privacy and you have no problem letting him enter the house as long as he gives a heads up.

If you take his name off the registration,you will have to pay for a new one,and. New plate. It is costly,just so ya know.

You know you can do this. Be polite and wish him a good night. Strut your stuff and show those balls!haha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## paperclip

I would also like to add that your car can be Towed for expired plates...


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Whoah, that's really weird.


"Weird" doesn't even begin to explain it. LOL.


----------



## LonelyNLost

paperclip said:


> I would also like to add that your car can be Towed for expired plates...


I just went down and got a standard plate and reregistered my car. All by myself.  So when he does get around to going and registering, he will see that I've already done mine. They said I can't change it to put my name first unless his comes off the title, blah blah blah. So that'll have to wait. But he's driving around with expired tags.


----------



## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Jellybeans is correct,no going to his job. It makes you look physco not him.
> 
> Lonely, facebook, even if you have a fake page, can still be to your disadvantage. There is a new program where you can see who is looking at your page. Your hubby and OW may well be idiots but they can add two and two together and "guess" that you are the one behind it.
> 
> Ask the kids to stay in the house cause you need to talk to dad. Then go out before he can guess what is coming. Smile,say hello. I wanted to talk to you before the kids came out. Here are the keys to your car and house keys. I would like my car key and would appreciate it if you made arrangements. With me before coming to the house. You don't live her and I would like to enjoy thhe benefits of privacy just as you do. If he balks, don't argue. Simply state, ok, I am just giving you fair warning that I am adding an alarm system soon and the police will come when the alarm goes off,so I suggest you give me a heads up. Don't give dates,reasons,or argue. Just state that you are entitled to your privacy and you have no problem letting him enter the house as long as he gives a heads up.
> 
> If you take his name off the registration,you will have to pay for a new one,and. New plate. It is costly,just so ya know.
> 
> You know you can do this. Be polite and wish him a good night. Strut your stuff and show those balls!haha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I just spoke with him on the phone in a cordial manner. That was weird. I was going to cook dinner but I knew he was coming tonight at 6, and it's the middle of dinner. So I asked my son if he wanted what I was cooking or if he wanted to see if Daddy was taking them to dinner. He called him and asked if they could go to Subway and I could hear H saying, "I didn't know I was feeding you" so I told my son to give me the phone. I told him that 6 was really hard to have dinner ingested by, and I wasn't sure if he wanted to feed them or what. He said he wasn't even sure if he was getting them tonight since he gets them tomorrow and he hadn't heard from me. Um, the phone works two ways. I don't get him. He said something about being fine taking them tonight, but maybe we could do every other week. Which I think would be too hard to keep track of. I told him I had no problem feeding them, I'd just need an extra 15 minutes. And I warned him that both of them are tired. He offered to just take our son and I'm like, "No you should take them both." Really weird to have a conversation. 

I can't really leave them alone in the house, my daughter is not yet 3. Even if it's for 5 minutes. We'll see what the weekend brings, I will probably strut my balls next Tuesday when I can have my friend come by and stay inside with the kids. 

I just really wonder how he's going to handle me starting to rid him from my life. I think it's the last thing he expects. He expects me to be sitting by, waiting for him to come home. Not sure how he'll react to his stuff being packed in boxes. Might make it easier for him to do this or just be a jerk. Idk. Guess I'll have to find out. I just don't want to make it all easy on him. 

I really don't think those facebook "see who visits your page" things work. They are all a scam. If they are real, I want to hook it up on mine! The fake profile wasn't created to spy on them, I've had it for a long time when we all used to play farmville and we'd use it to gain points and dumb stuff. Might just delete it. I don't need it for anything.


----------



## Jellybeans

You guys need to get a custody agreement in writing. For real.

Sounds like you did ok w/ him on the phone. remember, no emotions ever when you talk to him. When he comes to get the kids, tell him that you need your car key back and from now on to always notify you before coming over, that he "just can't walk into the house anymore."

NO EMOTIONS, ok???? COOL, CALM, COLLECTED. That is your new mantra, got it???

As for his stuff: I'd pack it and have it ready for him the next time he comes by. You coul dsay "D-uchbag (I mean, Husband's Name), Your stuff is in the basement and you need to remove it today" and walk away into another room. 

Voila!


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## LonelyNLost

I know the truth I know the truth I know the truth!


----------



## Jellybeans

What happened?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> What happened?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Don't leave us hanging! Been reading for months wondering!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24

Lonely,

Yes the phone works both ways and don't do him any favors. Not that you want to see the kids go hungry, but keep in mind,you are feeding,bathing,and taking care of those babies way more than he is so, he needs the dose of reality. If he is picking them up at 6, then he should plan on feeding them. No free rides. When you leave your wife, she doesn't do all the little things. Plus you don't want to set up this as an expected gesture. Again, I emphasize not letting the kids starve,but make sure dad knows that they need to be kept on a normal schedule and you will expect he will be feeding them on his days. He is the parent too. Not to say there are not circumstances in which you may want to work with him(if he was coming later or a kid sick).

I,left my hubby last fall with the kids as I was fed up. Never did he think slapping a meal down,giving kids a bath,and getting them in bed and get them going the next day would be so difficult. I have never seen a man so relieved when he saw me at the airport! Sometimes,life lessons can be the very best ones!

Good for you on the car, way to take charge!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

Oh dear. I'm worried about her not posting after writing she found out the truth. Lonely, we are going to hunt you down if you have gone loco on him or started sending him obscene messages.

DO NOT DO IT, OK??!!!

Come back to us!


----------



## tamara24

Lonely,

I live in your neck of the woods and don't want to see you on the news! Let us know you are ok. No matter what you found out, it will get better. 

Remember, you are a strong and confident woman. You can hold yourself with dignity,don't let him take you to the edge with him! Please respond so we know you are ok. We are worried about you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> 
> I live in your neck of the woods and don't want to see you on the news! Let us know you are ok. No matter what you found out, it will get better.
> 
> Remember, you are a strong and confident woman. You can hold yourself with dignity,don't let him take you to the edge with him! Please respond so we know you are ok. We are worried about you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lonely come tell us please! Let us know you're ok!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rome2012

golfergirl said:


> Lonely come tell us please! Let us know you're ok!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's ok....not harmed as far as I know...

I'm sure she'll update you soon !!!!


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## golfergirl

rome2012 said:


> She's ok....not harmed as far as I know...
> 
> I'm sure she'll update you soon !!!!


You KNOW something don't you? I hope she's emotionally ok!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Okay gals I'm here. And we had the conversation. Here's how today went down. I came home, got on her facebook wall and I see her post, "Only 2 more days until vacation" with some hearts. Someone asks her where she's going and she says "Orlando. Yay!" So, there's confirmation of my suspicions about this weekend. And then, she posts on her wall this video with a heart. And he likes it. YouTube - Bryan Adams - HEAVEN (w/ Lyrics) Are you kidding me?! 

I lose it and my friend is here. I'm shaking uncontrollably. I try to call his mom (I don't know why, don't chastise me) and it goes to voicemail, and I just let that song play on her voicemail but don't say anything. He pulls up to pick up the kids and is standing at the end of the driveway. I walk out by myself and say hello, he's got his sunglasses on and is standing with hands on his hips. I say, "So are you not going to see the kids at all on Easter?" and he says no. I ask if he wants to just take them for a few or something and he says no, I can have them. I then say, "I'll stop by your parents for a few so you can see them" and he says, "No, I have plans." I ask what and he says he's busy. He then says that's why he filled out that paperwork and he gave me Easter. I say, "Okay, then." and then I ask him to take off his sunglasses and look me in the eyes. I ask him if there's anything he wants to tell me. He says no. I ask if he's sure and he asks what I want to know and I just reply the truth and then walk off. My friend then goes out with the kids and asks him what's up and he starts to back off. She says, "What are your plans for Easter" to which he replies, "Damn, why is everyone up in my sh!t!" and gets pissed off. She says, "I was just making small talk. My fiance is coming into town and we're going to Orlando for the weekend." and he looked away and then said, "The whole weekend?". Weird. Then he left.

So I call and talk to a private investigator and my dad and my mom and try to figure out what to do. He brings the kids home early and pulls into the driveway, opens the garage, and comes trampling into the house. I stand there and say, "Can I help you?" and he laughs like I'm ridiculous and goes marching into the closet. I walk in and ask what he's doing and he has some self entitled attitude and says his money goes into the account and he is on the mortgage so it's his house too. I then say I'm entitled to privacy and I will be getting a security system soon and he needs to know that. I then say I need my car key back and give him his. He asks where the other key is to his motorcycle and I say I don't know. I go and play with the kids while he stands in there. He asks me to come in and then tries asking me if I'll do mediation and I say, "You haven't even had the balls to say this face to face." He gets all agitated and then says "what?" And I say "all this" and he says, "What the divorce?" and I announce, "Ladies and gentlemen, he has grown some balls and said the word. Congratulations" and I clapped. This pissed him off so bad and he stormed out of the house and called mea 5 year old. Then a minute later he goes to come inside and I stand in the doorway. He chest bumps me out of the way so I push him right back out. And I reared up so he knew I wasn't happy. My friend pulled me back and took the kids outside. So we sat down and talked for 2 hours.

It wasn't fun or pretty or good. I started out by saying I want the truth, I deserve that much. He beat around the bush and said his, "you believe what you want to believe" bit. I then told him I want to know the truth from him. We talked about his reasoning behind things and he bashed me for my "spineless" facebook post, told me about who and what was being posted on my fb wall. He did the whole "I've been unhappy for a long time." and insisted she had nothing to do with his decision. But then at one point he admitted he wasn't faithful and had been talking to her for 4 weeks. Um, sure you have. Wouldn't admit to seeing her this weekend. Actually swore he wasn't but then when I asked him to swear on his kids' life he wouldn't. We got into it over quite a few things. He's a jerk. This is done. D.O.N.E. Scorched earth, big time. He just went in the same circle and kept saying it was over, and I said I know it is. I could never take you back after you've treated me and he says I won't have to worry about that. I got a little mean and a lot honest. Told him why I thought he was spineless, he told me things he had snooped and found. I made a comment that I hoped he had a great birthday with his mommy, which he did eat with his mommy so he made a comment that I had followed him. I told him that one day when he snaps out of this all, he owes me a conversation. He kept asking if I'd do mediation and I just shrugged. He didn't like that I had taken all the pictures down. I am done with all this. I deserve better. He also admitted to seeing her twice in Vegas when he went out in january.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay gals I'm here. And we had the conversation. Here's how today went down. I came home, got on her facebook wall and I see her post, "Only 2 more days until vacation" with some hearts. Someone asks her where she's going and she says "Orlando. Yay!" So, there's confirmation of my suspicions about this weekend. And then, she posts on her wall this video with a heart. And he likes it. YouTube - Bryan Adams - HEAVEN (w/ Lyrics) Are you kidding me?!
> 
> I lose it and my friend is here. I'm shaking uncontrollably. I try to call his mom (I don't know why, don't chastise me) and it goes to voicemail, and I just let that song play on her voicemail but don't say anything. He pulls up to pick up the kids and is standing at the end of the driveway. I walk out by myself and say hello, he's got his sunglasses on and is standing with hands on his hips. I say, "So are you not going to see the kids at all on Easter?" and he says no. I ask if he wants to just take them for a few or something and he says no, I can have them. I then say, "I'll stop by your parents for a few so you can see them" and he says, "No, I have plans." I ask what and he says he's busy. He then says that's why he filled out that paperwork and he gave me Easter. I say, "Okay, then." and then I ask him to take off his sunglasses and look me in the eyes. I ask him if there's anything he wants to tell me. He says no. I ask if he's sure and he asks what I want to know and I just reply the truth and then walk off. My friend then goes out with the kids and asks him what's up and he starts to back off. She says, "What are your plans for Easter" to which he replies, "Damn, why is everyone up in my sh!t!" and gets pissed off. She says, "I was just making small talk. My fiance is coming into town and we're going to Orlando for the weekend." and he looked away and then said, "The whole weekend?". Weird. Then he left.
> 
> So I call and talk to a private investigator and my dad and my mom and try to figure out what to do. He brings the kids home early and pulls into the driveway, opens the garage, and comes trampling into the house. I stand there and say, "Can I help you?" and he laughs like I'm ridiculous and goes marching into the closet. I walk in and ask what he's doing and he has some self entitled attitude and says his money goes into the account and he is on the mortgage so it's his house too. I then say I'm entitled to privacy and I will be getting a security system soon and he needs to know that. I then say I need my car key back and give him his. He asks where the other key is to his motorcycle and I say I don't know. I go and play with the kids while he stands in there. He asks me to come in and then tries asking me if I'll do mediation and I say, "You haven't even had the balls to say this face to face." He gets all agitated and then says "what?" And I say "all this" and he says, "What the divorce?" and I announce, "Ladies and gentlemen, he has grown some balls and said the word. Congratulations" and I clapped. This pissed him off so bad and he stormed out of the house and called mea 5 year old. Then a minute later he goes to come inside and I stand in the doorway. He chest bumps me out of the way so I push him right back out. And I reared up so he knew I wasn't happy. My friend pulled me back and took the kids outside. So we sat down and talked for 2 hours.
> 
> It wasn't fun or pretty or good. I started out by saying I want the truth, I deserve that much. He beat around the bush and said his, "you believe what you want to believe" bit. I then told him I want to know the truth from him. We talked about his reasoning behind things and he bashed me for my "spineless" facebook post, told me about who and what was being posted on my fb wall. He did the whole "I've been unhappy for a long time." and insisted she had nothing to do with his decision. But then at one point he admitted he wasn't faithful and had been talking to her for 4 weeks. Um, sure you have. Wouldn't admit to seeing her this weekend. Actually swore he wasn't but then when I asked him to swear on his kids' life he wouldn't. We got into it over quite a few things. He's a jerk. This is done. D.O.N.E. Scorched earth, big time. He just went in the same circle and kept saying it was over, and I said I know it is. I could never take you back after you've treated me and he says I won't have to worry about that. I got a little mean and a lot honest. Told him why I thought he was spineless, he told me things he had snooped and found. I made a comment that I hoped he had a great birthday with his mommy, which he did eat with his mommy so he made a comment that I had followed him. I told him that one day when he snaps out of this all, he owes me a conversation. He kept asking if I'd do mediation and I just shrugged. He didn't like that I had taken all the pictures down. I am done with all this. I deserve better. He also admitted to seeing her twice in Vegas when he went out in january.


He doesn't sound in right mind with laughing etc. The chest bump is assault. I would consider charges or restraining order.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

Don't you just love how he is still trying to cover it up? Instead of telling you all of it while having the opportunity to?

GO TO A LAWYER ALREADY, GIRL! He thinks he can cheat on you and your family and then just come into your house? Yes, he may be on the mortgage but he has no right to keep doing this BS. You need to protec tyouserlf stat. iF you don't want mediation, ou don't have to do it.

Remember: He doesn't get to dictate the outcome now that he's waltzed off w/ his wh-re. Him saying she had nothing to do with his decision...oh please. And him being unhappy for awhile--all script.

From now on...no more talking to this d-uche unless it's about the kids. As for the kids, DO NOT have them around when you're having a one-on-one w/ him cause right now that is toxic for them.

Oh and watch this and adapt this attitude:

YouTube - American Beauty Drive Thru Scene Kevin Spacey


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> He doesn't sound in right mind with laughing etc. The chest bump is assault. I would consider charges or restraining order.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can you believe how blatantly obvious it all is?! I took screenshots of that stuff on her page. Looked into a PI, but they want $400 for like one day. He pushed me with his chest, I was pissed. His laughing is his way of like trying to make me sound ridiculous. He swayed through emotions, but looked all empty and stuff in his eyes. I pushed him right back, so I don't think I could get a restraining order. He said something else and I almost punched him in the nuts. I wanted to do some damage, LOL! He sickens me. I just kept telling him that I want the truth, even if it's years from now when he snaps out of it.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Can you believe how blatantly obvious it all is?! I took screenshots of that stuff on her page. Looked into a PI, but they want $400 for like one day. He pushed me with his chest, I was pissed. His laughing is his way of like trying to make me sound ridiculous. He swayed through emotions, but looked all empty and stuff in his eyes. I pushed him right back, so I don't think I could get a restraining order. He said something else and I almost punched him in the nuts. I wanted to do some damage, LOL! He sickens me. I just kept telling him that I want the truth, even if it's years from now when he snaps out of it.


Yeah keep the screenshots for you in a safe place (safe it to a folder on your comp or private email if you can). You can fnile on grounds of adultery.



LonelyNLost said:


> He said something else and I almost punched him in the nuts.


:rofl: I'm laughing, no but seriously, don't do this. D on't even give him the pleasure of knowing he's upset you.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Don't you just love how he is still trying to cover it up? Instead of telling you all of it while having the opportunity to?
> 
> GO TO A LAWYER ALREADY, GIRL! He thinks he can cheat on you and your family and then just fcojme into your house? Yes, he may be on the mortgage but he has no right to keep doing this BS. You need to protec tyouserlf stat. iF you don't want mediation, ou don't have to do it.
> 
> Remember: He doesn't get to dictate the outcome now that he's waltzed off w/ his wh-re. Him saying she had nothing to do with his decision...oh please. And him being unhappy for awhile--all script.
> 
> From now on...no more talking to this d-uche unless it's about the kids. As for the kids, DO NOT have them around when you're having a one-on-one w/ him cause right now that is toxic for them.
> 
> Oh and watch this and adapt this attitude:
> 
> YouTube - American Beauty Drive Thru Scene Kevin Spacey


I've seen a lawyer, but can't do anything until divorce is filed. He kept asking if I'd do mediation or a lawyer like he doesn't realize you have to file first. Then you go to mediation. 

I said pretty much all I had to say. Explained why I felt he was spineless, said how I had been disrespected and that wasn't how I was going interact with him, vented, discussed how textbook everything is. It's obvious. 

I just don't know what good the PI would do. I'd get pictures of them together, but he'd just say they've been together for four weeks so it was after we were done. But it would prove that he lied to me about this weekend. I think she'll be here for a week because he's not seeing the kids on Thursday either. But he is seeing them on Tuesday, but I made it clear I didn't want them around her. I also said he could tell her to stop contacting me because it was bordering on harassment, so thanks for that tip, LOL. 

So, this was trickle truth at it's best, along with blameshifting. He's so spineless it's amazing. Lie till you die.


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## turnera

Write his mom a letter and tell her the truth, now that you know, and mail it to her. She deserves to know.


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## turnera

And file the divorce yourself. PROVE to him that you have the balls in the family.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Write his mom a letter and tell her the truth, now that you know, and mail it to her. She deserves to know.


This is kind of what I thought I did a couple weeks ago, but it was too full of emotion I think. She just responded that she wants us both to be happy and that might mean we aren't together. So I doubt she knows the truth or believes me. But now she is facebook friends with H and the ex, and the whole song thing and her saying she's coming to Orlando and then H is going to disappear for a few days? Come on! I'm thinking about stopping by on Easter anyways, even if it's just them there. His parents will stand by his side. He will tell everyone that they got together after the fact. Not sure where to go from here. After looking at him tonight and seeing the coldness in his eyes and the complete disregard for me. I don't know if I could ever go back and he made it clear he was done and there was no chance for reconciliation. Of course he IS deep in teh fog. But how do I snap him out? Even if I had pics of them together, he'd explain that away.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> And file the divorce yourself. PROVE to him that you have the balls in the family.


This is what makes no sense to me. Why hasn't he filed? Is it money? Why does he want me to do mediation first? He wants it to go quick and painless? I really feel like maybe I should file, but that $400 could be used on a private investigator!


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## Jellybeans

You don't snap him out, Lonely. That's not something you have any control over.

He is a jerk and you are worth way more than that.

My bet is he wants mediation cause it's way cheaper and less stressful than going the way of divorce via attorneys. Again, something that will benefit him. See? He doesn't have your interest at all. 

I wouldn't even spend $ on a private investigator at this point. He's already told you he cheated, you know he's going to Orlando w/ the homewrecking hag, and he said he is done and wants a divorce.

Save that money for a lawyer.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> You don't snap him out, Lonely. That's not something you have any control over.
> 
> He is a jerk and you are worth way more than that.
> 
> My bet is he wants mediation cause it's way cheaper and less stressful than going the way of divorce via attorneys. Again, something that will benefit him. See? He doesn't have your interest at all.
> 
> I wouldn't even spend $ on a private investigator at this point. He's already told you he cheated, you know he's going to Orlando w/ the homewrecking hag, and he said he is done and wants a divorce.
> 
> Save that money for a lawyer.


He like half admitted something, but not really. It's disgusting. He won't say that his cheating is what got us here. He says she had nothing to do with his decision. But it's crap. I told him how textbook it all was. And that I hoped our kids didn't end up with his self-entitled attitude that his parents gave him. Sometimes you have to be in charge of your own happiness.


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## Jellybeans

He will probably never admit the cheating played a part in his divorce decision. It's sad but owning it will mean that he single-handled f-cked things up and he's too stubborn and arrogant to admit that he is flawed and in the wrong.


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> He will probably never admit the cheating played a part in his divorce decision. It's sad but owning it will mean that he single-handled f-cked things up and he's too stubborn and arrogant to admit that he is flawed and in the wrong.


Let police decide. Explain the truth. He can't push you around especially in front of kids. Pushed his way in - laughed at you when asking for privacy - ignored request. What next? Let them decide if there's grounds. I've seen these situations escalate. And find out when her plane is coming and report him for no insurance just few hours before. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Babyheart

What a jerk! Don't waste your money on a PI, you know what is going on. File for divorce & be done with him.


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## LonelyNLost

The weird thing is, he sits here and says he'll take all the blame and he never has and never will say a bad thing about me, I'm a great person, etc. But then he says we just grew apart, and things have been bad for 2 years, and our mutual friends know that he wasn't happy a year ago and all this other garbage. He says that they are now talking for four weeks, but swore he wasn't seeing her this weekend. Yet he's too busy to see his kids on Easter. And he is too busy to take them next Thursday. 

Can I call the police today after the fact? Could he say something about me calling him a name in front of the kids? 

I really want to hire the PI. I'd have my proof, I really would. And they could tell me where he's staying and I could walk up to that skank and tell her what I think. It doesn't matter, my marriage is over. I just don't want him to think he's smarter than me. He's forgotten everything in this fog.


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## paperclip

LonelyNLost said:


> I really want to hire the PI. I'd have my proof, I really would. And they could tell me where he's staying and I could walk up to that skank and tell her what I think. It doesn't matter, my marriage is over. I just don't want him to think he's smarter than me. He's forgotten everything in this fog.


I wouldn't hire a PI. You already know what's going on...

PI's are for when you don't know but want to know for sure!

Don't say anything to the girl he's seeing now. It will just make him and her justify that all the crazy things hes told her about you are true. Just stay with a smile on your face and move on.

Remember these cheating spouses will say anything to justify their actions and make them look like the victim.


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## LonelyNLost

paperclip said:


> I wouldn't hire a PI. You already know what's going on...
> 
> PI's are for when you don't know but want to know for sure!
> 
> Don't say anything to the girl he's seeing now. It will just make him and her justify that all the crazy things hes told her about you are true. Just stay with a smile on your face and move on.
> 
> Remember these cheating spouses will say anything to justify their actions and make them look like the victim.


Well, he doesn't think I know what's going on. I think he even tried to cover himself by saying he's been unfaithful the last 4 weeks by talking to her. But he did say he wasn't seeing her this weekend. Damn, I wish his mom would have a conversation with me. I am not going to say anything to her, unless I end up seeing them together. Then I'll tell her she can have him. But I'd love to plaster the photos the PI gets all over facebook, message them to her friends and his friends. What harm can it do? 

I did tell him that he needed to tell her to stop contacting me, it was harassment and I'll get a restraining order if I need to. And he better not bring her around the kids. He looked at me and asked if she was emailing me or something. So now he's thinking.


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## LonelyNLost

And we don't have divorce on the grounds of adultery in Florida. Not sure it would make a bit of difference. But he'd know that I know the truth. And he would probably still deny it all.

He did admit to a few things, like seeing her twice when he was out there. Once to have lunch and once to go with her to see her parents. As he had promised me not to see her and he had promised me he didn't see her. He blamed our downfall on me calling him out while he was there and us arguing on the phone for an hour. He had already checked out. She stroked his ego and he liked it. I said all this to him. He says he lied because he didn't want to hear it. I said you liked because you are flawed and too weak. I told him his second marriage would fail because he hasn't owned up to anything and will continue to make the same mistakes. I told him marriage is a commitment, and there will be ups and downs but you stick together through it. It isn't about making the other happy, sometimes you make your own happiness, and you are a crappy husband for that. I also told him he better not instill this sense of entitlement upon our children. He then told me that my second marriage would fail!


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## Jellybeans

Going back and forth with him is pointless. You already know he can't tell the truth to save his life. You already know through his actions where his head is at right now (inside that woman's a--). 
So the best thing you can do is go "dark" on him. No conversations unless it's related to the kids or the divorce. Go quiet and mysterious. The worst thing you can ever do to someone is ignore them. It is the highest form of ostracization.



LonelyNLost said:


> I really want to hire the PI. I'd have my proof, I really would. And they could tell me where he's staying and I could walk up to that skank and tell her what I think.





LonelyNLost said:


> I am not going to say anything to her, unless I end up seeing them together. Then I'll tell her she can have him. But I'd love to plaster the photos the PI gets all over facebook, message them to her friends and his friends. What harm can it do? .


Lonely, this is psycho. Seriously. And not only that but she could use all of that and file harassment against you. The laws are screwed up in this country. DO NOT give her or him any pleasure in seeing you sweat. They both have the morals of an alley cat. So let them have eachother. Let him go. Release him from your mind. Let her fill all his emotional needs and everything else that a marriage is. The shiny and new is going to wear off eventually. He is nowhere near seeing the damage this is causing yet. He is high as hell on the dopamine created by an affair. That is not your problem. 

Is she emailing you? You said you told him to tell her to stop contacting you. Elaborate.




paperclip said:


> *I wouldn't hire a PI. You already know what's going on...
> 
> PI's are for when you don't know but want to know for sure!*Don't say anything to the girl he's seeing now. It will just make him and her justify that all the crazy things hes told her about you are true. Just stay with a smile on your face and move on.
> 
> Remember these cheating spouses will say anything to justify their actions and make them look like the victim.


This advice is 100% correct. The PI is for when you have no clue. He has told you to your face he was unfaithful and he is involved with her. You see it all over their FB (stop looking at it, btw). There is no mystery here anymore. He is a jerk and she is a slag. Let them have eachother. Move on and don't let him dictate to you the way the divorce will shake out. 

I did tell him that he needed to tell her to stop contacting me, it was harassment and I'll get a restraining order if I need to. And he better not bring her around the kids. He looked at me and asked if she was emailing me or something. So now he's thinking.[/QUOTE]


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## Jellybeans

Lonely, watch this... see it's pointless...he will continue to deny it:

YouTube - The Best Of Cheaters - Uncensored 1 : Episode 5 (5/6)


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> The weird thing is, he sits here and says he'll take all the blame and he never has and never will say a bad thing about me, I'm a great person, etc. But then he says we just grew apart, and things have been bad for 2 years, and our mutual friends know that he wasn't happy a year ago and all this other garbage. He says that they are now talking for four weeks, but swore he wasn't seeing her this weekend. Yet he's too busy to see his kids on Easter. And he is too busy to take them next Thursday.
> 
> Can I call the police today after the fact? Could he say something about me calling him a name in front of the kids?
> 
> I really want to hire the PI. I'd have my proof, I really would. And they could tell me where he's staying and I could walk up to that skank and tell her what I think. It doesn't matter, my marriage is over. I just don't want him to think he's smarter than me. He's forgotten everything in this fog.


He's not allowed to touch you. You pushed back - he pushed FIRST. Calling bad name isn't assault - chest bumping is.
Do you fear him? You say you don't but you're scared to get key back (initially) and scared to ask him not to enter home. You've asked for boundaries - it's iffy that he'll respect them. You both sound like volatile people. Please do your kids a favor and stop the fighting and pushing when they're around (I know he started, you protected - now get restraining order so it doesn't happen again). Him leaving is damaging, you guys fighting is worse. He won't listen when asked to respect privacy - then go through legal ways to get that.
As far as plastering photos - she's pretty public about it herself - don't think it would hurt her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Going back and forth with him is pointless. You already know he can't tell the truth to save his life. You already know through his actions where his head is at right now (inside that woman's a--).
> So the best thing you can do is go "dark" on him. No conversations unless it's related to the kids or the divorce. Go quiet and mysterious. The worst thing you can ever do to someone is ignore them. It is the highest form of ostracization.
> 
> Lonely, this is psycho. Seriously. And not only that but she could use all of that and file harassment against you. The laws are screwed up in this country. DO NOT give her or him any pleasure in seeing you sweat. They both have the morals of an alley cat. So let them have eachother. Let him go. Release him from your mind. Let her fill all his emotional needs and everything else that a marriage is. The shiny and new is going to wear off eventually. He is nowhere near seeing the damage this is causing yet. He is high as hell on the dopamine created by an affair. That is not your problem.
> 
> Is she emailing you? You said you told him to tell her to stop contacting you. Elaborate.
> 
> This advice is 100% correct. The PI is for when you have no clue. He has told you to your face he was unfaithful and he is involved with her. You see it all over their FB (stop looking at it, btw). There is no mystery here anymore. He is a jerk and she is a slag. Let them have eachother. Move on and don't let him dictate to you the way the divorce will shake out.


I just HAVE TO KNOW. My friend totally understands. I can't explain it, I just need to have the proof. I know I won't ever get apology or remorse from him, but I just want to see it for myself. Mostly because of all the manipulating and taunting he's done. They can have each other. But I want him to live with regrets and see that he's destroying a lot. He will one day. I would love to bust him out of this fog, and I feel like exposure is the way to go. I need this in order to let go.

We went back and forth last night, but this isn't something I'm going to continue to do. It's clear that he isn't going to tell the truth. He's going to stick to his story of us growing apart, and him being unhappy and me being unhappy and marriage not being about forever. No regard for the kids. He even had the nerve to say he was going to be in financial ruin because he'll have to pay child support. Woe is me.

I've been dark on him. He hasn't heard anything from me. He even said last night that I'd been avoiding him by not even coming out when he got the kids. I told him that I refuse to be disrespected. I am dark. I'm not talking to him at all. He isn't giving me the truth. I sat and agreed with him last night that the marriage was not able to be recovered but I told him it was because of his lies and the way he's treated me disrespected me. I will not be in a marriage with someone that disregards me in such a way. He said it was not repairable because I put "spineless" on my facebook wall and now all 260 of my facebook friends hate him. Yeah, okay. 

How is exposing them psycho? How can I have harassment charges filed for sending an email to their friends and family saying that they are involved in an adulterous affair that led to the end of her marriage and is now tearing mine apart. And let everyone know that he has been married to me for ten years and we have two small children that are being torn apart by this. And then sharing my proof so that they can't deny any more. When all they have left is each other, then what?! Misery.

She is not emailing me. I just said that to get in his head. I didn't say how she was contacting me, but I think it will be funny when he says something to her about it and she denies it. Will make him question things. But he'll probably just say I lied. I can't believe he doesn't see that I know what he's up to this weekend. So strange. I'm not 100% sure I can trust his best friend anymore. H said he's the one that told him about my facebook post. But I'm not so sure. He called H last night and said he has no clue that I've figured out his plans, but he didn't share the plans with him. 

I would LOVE to walk up to that skank and tell her what she's done and that he did it to me twice, he'll do it to you.


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> He's not allowed to touch you. You pushed back - he pushed FIRST. Calling bad name isn't assault - chest bumping is.
> Do you fear him? You say you don't but you're scared to get key back (initially) and scared to ask him not to enter home. You've asked for boundaries - it's iffy that he'll respect them. You both sound like volatile people. Please do your kids a favor and stop the fighting and pushing when they're around (I know he started, you protected - now get restraining order so it doesn't happen again). Him leaving is damaging, you guys fighting is worse. He won't listen when asked to respect privacy - then go through legal ways to get that.
> As far as plastering photos - she's pretty public about it herself - don't think it would hurt her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really don't want to make things any uglier than they already are. A restraining order would be sort of ridiculous. I'm not scared of him at all. I know he wouldn't hit me, even if he lost his temper. I wanted to hit him and I'm not violent at all. He seemed like he wanted me to. The kids didn't really see it all. That's why I had my friend there, she took them away. I wasn't scared to ask for boundaries, I'm just not a button pusher and didn't want to make things worse. He told me I could change the locks once he got his stuff out. I think if I remove it all from the house and then leave it in the garage, I can change the locks then. Just as long as he has garage access. And now he can't get in my car. 

I'm really not volatile, but I would definitely describe him that way. He loses his temper and has no patience. He swung back and forth on emotions last night. And then had the nerve to tell me to make up my mind whether I was going to be pissed, upset, crying, or what. I just react emotionally to him at this time. I wonder if his mom is privy to all this or if she's turning a blind eye. Or just not mentioning it. I wonder if she'll make the connection between the song on her wall and the song I played on her voicemail. I can't believe he doesn't realize I know. 

I hope he respects my privacy. I said that over and over again last night. How he has all the privacy in the world and I have none. How he comes here and looks around. He even said how he asked me if I saw a lawyer and I didn't answer, but he knows I did because he saw the folder on my nightstand. I said, "I know you did, and you also came back two days later to look for it and couldn't find it." And he denied that.


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## tamara24

Lonely,

I am sure by now you have had a horrible night and your heart, even though ya knew now you KNOW,is broken that a man that you loved so much could do that to you . Not just you but the kids that you both adore.

Ok, I get the fact that you want to see them together because your heart is broken and your head says ok, if I se them together there is no going back. Spending money on a P.I. in a state where there is no advantage. In the divorce is just wasting money. I know you are upset,angry,confused and ready to tear his head off, but by doing this now it will just show how nuts you are. I know you are not but that will be his story. See why I was driven into the arms of another woman? She is nuts! Don't give him the ammunition..

Go read someone help,I am running out of options by Jar. His wife cheated and you can see the gambit of emotions the man has felt and he tried his best to get her to work things out. They are now finalizing the divorce and te wife is losing it. Jar took his time, made decisions,waited until emotions didn't rule him. He has done all the hard work and now he can let her go with the peace that he did all he could to save thhe marraige and by working on himself,he has come out of this a better man. The wife, is freaking and never. Owned up to her part of the marraige and now,, guess who is paying the price?

Do not engage him. If he pushes you again,then report it. Both of you were in the heat of the moment and emotions are riding high. Once was the last. From now on you are going to be the one in control. Keep a record of when he blows off the kids on agreed times. If he says I did not see her. Over Easter break, don't argue with him. Just say listen, you can deny, but I saw she was coming to Orlando and that you have cleared the week,it does not take an einstein to figure this out and I am not stupid. Drop it. If she posts any pics and you know she will,copy them. Then you can show him that you know. If he asks why you have them, just state that although you want to continue to lie to me and treat me with utter disrespect, I plan to hold on to these so when the kids are older and I have to explain the real reason why daddy left us and you deny it, I will have proof that daddy didn't want to work on our marraige,he was too busy with his little friend.

Don't argue with him about his flaws,lack of character, he is justifying everything you scream,yell and accuse him of as this is why I left the wacky woman. Hold your high, never raise your voice. Pack all of his stuff put it in the garage. When he picks up the kids next, tell him everything is in the garage. Calmly tell him. .
Continue to look your best even if the can is dragging. Keep moving. Do not do mediation. Simply state that since he is unable to talk to you in person,disrespects you and denies the truth,that mediation would just be a waste of time. Also let him know, the new alarm will be added as soon as he gets the stuff out of the garage. Stay dark until you feel you can control your emotions. 

Sending you hugs and prayers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Ok, I get the fact that you want to see them together because your heart is broken and your head says ok, if I se them together there is no going back. Spending money on a P.I. in a state where there is no advantage. In the divorce is just wasting money. I know you are upset,angry,confused and ready to tear his head off, but by doing this now it will just show how nuts you are. I know you are not but that will be his story. See why I was driven into the arms of another woman? She is nuts! Don't give him the ammunition..
> 
> Over Easter break, don't argue with him. Just say listen, you can deny, but I saw she was coming to Orlando and that you have cleared the week,it does not take an einstein to figure this out and I am not stupid. Drop it. If she posts any pics and you know she will,copy them. Then you can show him that you know. If he asks why you have them, just state that although you want to continue to lie to me and treat me with utter disrespect, I plan to hold on to these so when the kids are older and I have to explain the real reason why daddy left us and you deny it, I will have proof that daddy didn't want to work on our marraige,he was too busy with his little friend.
> 
> When he picks up the kids next, tell him everything is in the garage. Calmly tell him. .
> Continue to look your best even if the can is dragging. Keep moving. Do not do mediation. Simply state that since he is unable to talk to you in person,disrespects you and denies the truth,that mediation would just be a waste of time. Also let him know, the new alarm will be added as soon as he gets the stuff out of the garage. Stay dark until you feel you can control your emotions.


You are right, I am broken. I was shaking last night, I cried a little, but overall I felt good that I had gotten so much off my chest. I said a lot of what I wanted to say, but I didn't lay my cards all on the table. He doesn't seem like he realizes I can see her facebook wall. I can't see her pictures, though, so I won't be able to steal any pics she posts. But I did print out the posts from the last few days. The song makes me want to barf. Seriously. 

I see what you are saying about the PI. I do. But I also feel like $400 is not a lot in the scheme of things. It's my rainy day stash, so it would be depleted for now, but he also spent that much on a new tattoo not long ago. And that's the cost of filing for divorce, even though he hasn't done that. But I want to see it with my own eyes. Me following him would show I was nuts, me smacking photos down on the table in mediation would be just desserts. I really want to talk to his mom still for some reason. She shared my suspicions in the beginning, before he was able to manipulate her. I want to tell her that him and I have talked, so now will she eat lunch with me? 

I want to tell him I know, but I don't want to let them know they've hung themselves yet. I do want my kids to know the truth. I know he's their dad, and they should love him, but they should know. I go back and forth on this. I don't want them to know now, of course, but my son is smart and will figure it out. He's probably heard enough of my conversations where I say, "She..." and when I say how he lies so much right to my face. 

I'll let you guys know what I come home to. He's picking up son from here at school today and then he's getting daughter from daycare. Dropping them at home at 7:30. He's off today, so he could be at the house right now packing his stuff. I put a stack of boxes in the bedroom for him, LOL. He says I can have everything but he wants half of the pictures of the kids when they were babies. Wow, is all I can say.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I just HAVE TO KNOW. My friend totally understands. I can't explain it, I just need to have the proof. I would love to bust him out of this fog, and I feel like exposure is the way to go.


There is nothing more to expose. He has openly admitted to you he is involved with her and cheated on you with her. That is all the proof you need.

$400 could be used for something else. But hey, it's up to you.

The sooner you let go, the better.

And yes, it will come across as VERY psycho if you post pics all over your FB and to the world of them together calling her an adulterous ho (which is what she is, but I tha tis besides the point).

Re: the harrassment... I think I told you this before but I know a woman who's hub and her are divorcing right now--they were together for eons, had kis, a life, the whole shebang. He cheated on her w/ someone else and he's been with OW for about 2 yrs now. She wrote the woman and email and send it to a couple of other people basically calling her out. The woman filed harassment charges against her, she got changed and convicted!!! of a misdemeanor and is on probation. When she had to go tot court, her hub was there...standing with the OW.

Seriously, don't lower yourself. Let her have him. You don't want him the way he is. He's scum right now.


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I really want to hire the PI. I'd have my proof, I really would. And they could tell me where he's staying and I could walk up to that skank and tell her what I think. It doesn't matter, my marriage is over. I just don't want him to think he's smarter than me. He's forgotten everything in this fog.


 And what'll that getcha?

As you sit alone in your tiny apartment with your kids eating rice and beans because you can't afford anything else because you made a fool of yourself and he then took you to the cleaners in court by painting you out to be a crazy, and the judge agreed?

But, hey! At least you got your 20 seconds of satisfaction!

sigh

You've got kids to think of, lonely.

You admit you have poor impulse control, you have to be right, you have to push.

Well, where is that pushing taking you? Where is it going to land your kids?


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> He blamed our downfall on me calling him out while he was there and us arguing on the phone for an hour. He had already checked out. She stroked his ego and he liked it. I said all this to him. He says he lied because he didn't want to hear it. I said you liked because you are flawed and too weak.


Which leads back to everything I tried to tell you weeks ago.

What if, when he was there, he was comparing his present life to his high school days, and there you went, calling him in the middle of it, accusing, controlling, daring, threatening, arguing.

What do you think he was thinking after he hung up that phone, lonely?

I'll tell you my bet: "Holy crap. No way I can stay married to her. I was right. All she does is rag on me and tell me how worthless I am and make me feel like sh!t. Maybe I SHOULD have stayed with OW; at least she doesn't tear me down and tell me what to do and make me feel guilty for breathing."

Look, I know you don't want to hear my version of your life. You want to blame him. And I agree, he deserves to be blamed. But if you aren't going to take an honest look at your attitude and actions, what's going to happen with your next husband? Or what's going to happen if he breaks up with OW and wants to come home, and you haven't done any acceptance of your own issues and worked on yourself? What if you just spend the next whatever time seething in anger (as seems to be your method) and wanting retribution, instead of looking at WHY he wanted out? What if you're still in the exact same mode as you are now, when/if he comes back? Do you think he's going to come running home? 

I don't.

I'm trying to help you.


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## Jellybeans

Nobody here is perfect. We all have our own issues. Lonely has her own, we all do. But I don't think the reasons he wanted out are due to her and only her. He has played a part in this and she has too, but at the end of the day, he is the one who has unilaterally decided the state of their relationship, and taken the decision to divorce.

Right now her husband is the one stepping out on her and leaving her and her kids high and dry. 

So, Lonley, LET HIM GO so you can start moving on w/ your life. 

We all play a part in our relationships, that is true, but you can't even begin to focus on what you contributed to until you let him go. 

Even if he came running back to you, would you want him after so many infidelities on his part?

Don't embarrass yourself by trying to get one over on them cause you  will look like the crazy one to both of them. Sandra Bulloch's hub stepped out on her with the nastiest skank on her earth and what did she do? She let it go and axed him quickly. Dignified. That is how you need to be. That is how you handle it.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Which leads back to everything I tried to tell you weeks ago.
> 
> What if, when he was there, he was comparing his present life to his high school days, and there you went, calling him in the middle of it, accusing, controlling, daring, threatening, arguing.
> 
> What do you think he was thinking after he hung up that phone, lonely?
> 
> I'll tell you my bet: "Holy crap. No way I can stay married to her. I was right. All she does is rag on me and tell me how worthless I am and make me feel like sh!t. Maybe I SHOULD have stayed with OW; at least she doesn't tear me down and tell me what to do and make me feel guilty for breathing."
> 
> Look, I know you don't want to hear my version of your life. You want to blame him. And I agree, he deserves to be blamed. But if you aren't going to take an honest look at your attitude and actions, what's going to happen with your next husband? Or what's going to happen if he breaks up with OW and wants to come home, and you haven't done any acceptance of your own issues and worked on yourself? What if you just spend the next whatever time seething in anger (as seems to be your method) and wanting retribution, instead of looking at WHY he wanted out? What if you're still in the exact same mode as you are now, when/if he comes back? Do you think he's going to come running home?
> 
> I don't.
> 
> I'm trying to help you.


I didn't call him threatening and accusing. I simply stated that I missed him and hadn't heard from him much and I was wondering what he was doing out there and wanted to hear about it. He got super defensive, and probably because of the guilt he was feeling over what he was doing. The lies! Seeing her! Telling me he hadn't! I can only imagine what all that manipulating does to one's psyche. I think he was thinking more along the lines of, "This shiny new toy reminds me of my youth. She loves me and admires me and tells me how wonderful I am. The old faithful toy requires maintenance. I have to pay bills, be responsible for life, and it's just too much work when this one over here gives me everything for nothing." 

I am a better person. I'm beyond the point of looking at my own actions. I did that, I changed things, and he used it to his advantage to further manipulate and lie to me. He had that EA 4 years ago, and it took awhile for me to tell him that it was a turning point in our marriage that could work to our advantage and we needed to figure out what was missing. He did work with me, we were really good for the 3 weeks before he went out there. I asked him last night if he faked it and he said no and asked if I did. I told him he is too thick in the fog to even think straight. My next marriage will not fail because of who I am. I've accepted my situation, we are just so far beyond that point. He is in the wrong. Yes, our marriage needed some tuning, and I had brought the issues up in July and again in September. He wasn't willing to do the work, he was complacent. But I didn't give up and stray. He did.


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## turnera

Jellybeans said:


> Nobody here is perfect. We all have our own issues. Lonely has her own, we all do. But I don't think the reasons he wanted out are due to her and only her. He has played a part in this and she has too, but at the end of the day, he is the one who has unilaterally decided the state of their relationship, and taken the decision to divorce.


Of course they're not due to only her. But what environment has she created for him to come home to?


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I didn't call him threatening and accusing. I simply stated that I missed him and hadn't heard from him much and I was wondering what he was doing out there and wanted to hear about it. He got super defensive, and probably because of the guilt he was feeling over what he was doing.


You just said you spent an hour arguing on the phone. Which is it?


----------



## turnera

Every time anyone questions your actions, you go back and 'smooth it out' so you don't look bad.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I think he was thinking more along the lines of, "This shiny new toy reminds me of my youth. She loves me and *admires me and tells me how wonderful I am*.


And what did he have to compare that to?

Do you remember that a man's #2 need (after sex) is almost always admiration?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> There is nothing more to expose. He has openly admitted to you he is involved with her and cheated on you with her. That is all the proof you need.
> 
> $400 could be used for something else. But hey, it's up to you.
> 
> The sooner you let go, the better.
> 
> And yes, it will come across as VERY psycho if you post pics all over your FB and to the world of them together calling her an adulterous ho (which is what she is, but I tha tis besides the point).
> 
> Re: the harrassment... I think I told you this before but I know a woman who's hub and her are divorcing right now--they were together for eons, had kis, a life, the whole shebang. He cheated on her w/ someone else and he's been with OW for about 2 yrs now. She wrote the woman and email and send it to a couple of other people basically calling her out. The woman filed harassment charges against her, she got changed and convicted!!! of a misdemeanor and is on probation. When she had to go tot court, her hub was there...standing with the OW.
> 
> Seriously, don't lower yourself. Let her have him. You don't want him the way he is. He's scum right now.


Well, he didn't openly admit anything. He was vague and used foggy words. He said he's been unfaithful. He said he is talking to her whatever that means. In high school we used that term to mean we were trying to get together with someone. I guess he really is in his high school days. He even told me she never once asked him to leave his wife for her. Haha, it's almost laughable at this point. He told me how her husband hit her kid and treated her bad and that he had nothing to do with her leaving him. Did I tell you about H's Knight in Shining Armor issue? 

I don't know what I'd do with the pictures. Rub them in his face and show his parents. Expose to whoever. They are just pictures! How can I get in trouble for pictures? I've never once spoken to her or contacted her. 




turnera said:


> And what'll that getcha?
> 
> As you sit alone in your tiny apartment with your kids eating rice and beans because you can't afford anything else because you made a fool of yourself and he then took you to the cleaners in court by painting you out to be a crazy, and the judge agreed?
> 
> But, hey! At least you got your 20 seconds of satisfaction!
> 
> sigh
> 
> You've got kids to think of, lonely.
> 
> You admit you have poor impulse control, you have to be right, you have to push.
> 
> Well, where is that pushing taking you? Where is it going to land your kids?


I don't have poor impulse control, I do think things over, but I don't always later agree with my decision. Hindsight is 20/20 you know. I don't have to be right, I am right. And he's taunting me with not having proof. What am I pushing? My marriage? My kids' family? 

He can't paint me as crazy. He's got nothing. And he won't have anything. People know better. He's the one shutting everyone out. His best friend is in cahoots with me. He's lost it. And he'll be the one all alone in his parents tiny office eating cereal. I'll come out of this just fine.


----------



## turnera

If you go to Orlando and confront them, he most surely CAN paint you as crazy. Remember Lisa Nowak?


----------



## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> Of course they're not due to only her. But what environment has she created for him to come home to?


Well I do agree that Lonely yelling at him and telling him to F off and calling him spineless isn't the way to go... but that is why she needs to let go. 

FAST!

DO NOT go to FL, DO NOT post pictures, DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT!!!!!!!!!


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Of course they're not due to only her. But what environment has she created for him to come home to?


One that you'll never know of. One where he is accepted as a partner and equal, and his company is enjoyed. Leading up to all this, he worked from 10am (sleeping at the time I left for work) until 11pm or midnight every night. I'd go days without seeing him. We were in that complacency zone where you are friends but there's no connecting. I would tell him we need to make time for each other, but the only time we saw him was on Wednesday nights and Sundays. And on Sundays, we'd do something as a family or he'd work on yardwork. 

I never heckled him or bossed him around. I simply asked for quality time. I stated that I missed him. I advocated for our marriage and our family. He did switch jobs in September, at the same time he became "friends" with her and his eyes were opened to the distance that had been created between us. It happened simultaneously. I communicated it and wanted to do something about it. He did not communicate until he had another warm bed.




turnera said:


> You just said you spent an hour arguing on the phone. Which is it?


Well yeah, it turns into an argument when I call for one reason, he gets defensive and angry, and then I spend the whole time trying to explain why I feel the way I do and that I'm not attacking or accusing him. This is the same wheel spinning that's been happening for months. He gets defensive because he's guilty and in the wrong!



turnera said:


> Every time anyone questions your actions, you go back and 'smooth it out' so you don't look bad.


I thought it was called answering the question. When I clarify something it does smooth it over because I'm explaining it more. I'm not a monster. I'm a real human being, with a faith based in God, I love my family and my marriage is of value to me. I'm not perfect. But I have upheld my vows and done nothing but be accommodating and work on bending to make my marriage work. He's done nothing but manipulate. And lie. 



turnera said:


> And what did he have to compare that to?
> 
> Do you remember that a man's #2 need (after sex) is almost always admiration?


His number one need is not sex. His number one need is admiration. And I've always given that to him, but things haven't been the same since I got a full time job teaching 5 years ago. He, by default, has felt that he comes after my job and the kids. How can I help that when we don't even see each other? I tried, I truly did. I suggested things and read book after book. I'm the one here on this website. I tell him he's wonderful and I love him, but there's that whole responsibility thing again. And in all actuality, he never forgave himself for his EA four years ago. So when he looks at me, he sees the pain and guilt of his actions. Especially when he's doing them again right now.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> If you go to Orlando and confront them, he most surely CAN paint you as crazy. Remember Lisa Nowak?


Um, really? Me driving to Orlando and saying hello and telling her she can have him is NOT the same as comparing me to a diaper wearing crazy who was planning to kidnap the OW at knifepoint! Wow. 

All I would do is bust them. And walk up and say, "Hi, I'm his wife. Nice to meet you. You must be the woman that is breaking up a family. Well, you can have him. If he's willing to walk away from 10 years and 2 kids for a woman who clearly doesn't value marriage, then you can have him. Have a nice life together."




Jellybeans said:


> Well I do agree that Lonely yelling at him and telling him to F off and calling him spineless isn't the way to go... but that is why she needs to let go.
> 
> FAST!
> 
> DO NOT go to FL, DO NOT post pictures, DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT!!!!!!!!!


Wait. I never told him to F off. I actually didn't even really yell at him. I vented and got some things off my chest. I did call him spineless and I explained why. I told him he'd been disrespectful and after all I've given him and tried to save this, the least he could do is sit down and talk to me face to face. And for that, I won't be able to look at him the same. I told him that I deserve better than that, and he had disregarded me like trash. 

I live in Fl. I am only an hour away from Orlando. I can't say I'd post the pictures immediately, I'd probably save them for a day when I can completely catch him off guard. 

For now, I might just practice singing that Bryan Adam's song and when he comes home to drop the kids off, my friend and I will be singing it at the top of our lungs. :rofl: And then he can take his crap with him.


----------



## turnera

In all this, you have never raised your voice?



> For now, I might just practice singing that Bryan Adam's song and when he comes home to drop the kids off


Why don't you just handle this with restraint and dignity and say "I know you're going to Orlando to meet OW. I'm not shocked, but I'm so disappointed. I'll be filing the papers Monday."

You keep coming up with 'solutions' that smack of high school, lonely.

Be the adult in this situation.


----------



## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> Why don't you just handle this with restraint and dignity and say "I know you're going to Orlando to meet OW. I'm not shocked, but I'm so disappointed. I'll be filing the papers Monday."


I wouldn't even tell him that since he can't be forthright w/ you. I wouldn't tell him jack. Just pack up his stuff and next time he comes over, tell him he needs to remove it and you need your car keys.

*Be stealth*. I wouldn't give him ANY warning about you filing for divorce. He is holding off on filing for a reason that most likely is because right now it benefits him not to do it at this moment (child support, alimony, etc).


----------



## turnera

I agree, but she seems to have a huge need to 'get' him, so that would be a more productive way of doing it than showing up in Orlando and saying 'so there!'


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> In all this, you have never raised your voice?
> 
> Why don't you just handle this with restraint and dignity and say "I know you're going to Orlando to meet OW. I'm not shocked, but I'm so disappointed. I'll be filing the papers Monday."
> 
> You keep coming up with 'solutions' that smack of high school, lonely.
> 
> Be the adult in this situation.


Yes, I have raised my voice, as would anyone that has been lied to repeatedly. But throughout our marriage, no. I am a conflict avoider. I got some digs in last night, but for the most part I did not yell.

I do have restraint and dignity. I've not done any of the things I've joked about. But I might as well have some fun making him squirm you know? I'm not in high school. He is. And I'm not filing. He makes this choice, he does it.



Jellybeans said:


> I wouldn't even tell him that since he can't be forthright w/ you. I wouldn't tell him jack. Just pack up his stuff and next time he comes over, tell him he needs to remove it and you need your car keys.
> 
> *Be stealth*. I wouldn't give him ANY warning about you filing for divorce. He is holding off on filing for a reason that most likely is because right now it benefits him not to do it at this moment (child support, alimony, etc).


That's my thinking. He will get the message. I am packing up his stuff, (if it isn't already gone when I get home today), and I am putting it in the garage next to his toolbox that he is so worried about, and he can get it when he pleases. Once his stuff is out, I am changing the locks, but I will leave the garage accessible. He did give me my key back last night and he did tell me I could change the locks when his stuff was out. 

I'm not footing the bill for the D. He can do that. His check is still going into the account and he's only using the money for gas (for the most part). I won't get alimony, but I stand to get about $850 a month in child support. Which is less than I'm getting now with his checks. But I might go through the bills and figure things out and start forwarding some to his house. He said something about me doing that and put "responsible for" in parenthesis. So who knows how big of a jerk he'll be. I need to really figure the money situation out, I've been dreading it. He made a comment last night that I can't afford the house on my own. And that he'll be in financial ruins. He offered to write me a check every couple weeks to help with stuff and go ahead and separate bills. Such a mess.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> I agree, but she seems to have a huge need to 'get' him, so that would be a more productive way of doing it than showing up in Orlando and saying 'so there!'


He wants me to file. That way he can just tell people "we grew apart and she filed for divorce." In all this I feel like he's been pushing me to do it. He didn't even mention filing last night. He wanted to talk about mediation and lawyers but never once said filing. When he asked me about those things I just shrugged. I told him mediation is expensive and he said, "Not all of them and we can figure this out in 6-8 hours." HE IS PAYING FOR ALL THAT!  My last paycheck already went into our joint account. I'm using my own account starting next Friday. And I'm transferring part of his check out of there if I need it.


----------



## Jellybeans

If he offered to give you money every few weeks, I'd get it in writing. I'd get everything in writing. Because guess what: 9 out of 10 times, the waywards offer something great up front and later backtrack once reality sets and they see they will have to pay $$$. Know that. 

If you filed the divorce or separation and chidl support and alimony, you bet your butt LaLa Land won't seem so great for him.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> If he offered to give you money every few weeks, I'd get it in writing. I'd get everything in writing. Because guess what: 9 out of 10 times, the waywards offer something great up front and later backtrack once reality sets and they see they will have to pay $$$. Know that.
> 
> If you filed the divorce or separation and chidl support and alimony, you bet your butt LaLa Land won't seem so great for him.


I don't understand how divorce wouldn't look so great right now? This is what he wants so he can be with his true love, "lying there in her arms in heaven". LOL. He is ready and willing to move forward, just not sure what's holding him back if it's not money. 

How would I get him to put it in writing? Email negotiation?


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I don't understand how divorce wouldn't look so great right now? This is what he wants so he can be with his true love, "lying there in her arms in heaven". LOL. He is ready and willing to move forward, just not sure what's holding him back if it's not money.
> 
> How would I get him to put it in writing? Email negotiation?


There is SOME reason he won't file. Trust me. I can't tell you what it is but waywards are notorious for waiting stuff out until it benefits them. It's probably a financial issue for him. Cause once that judge sets a temporary order going that he owes you X amount every month until the divorce is finalized, life with OW won't seem so lavish since he won't have the money to frolick around with her like he thought. 

Yeah you could go the way of an email: Basically stating what he's offered you so far and an agreement with the kids. I would have a legal one drawn up though, like how he did to you with the paperwork already that he left on your car.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> There is SOME reason he won't file. Trust me. I can't tell you what it is but waywards are notorious for waiting stuff out until it benefits them. It's probably a financial issue for him. Cause once that judge sets a temporary order going that he owes you X amount every month until the divorce is finalized, life with OW won't seem so lavish since he won't have the money to frolick around with her like he thought.
> 
> Yeah you could go the way of an email: Basically stating what he's offered you so far and an agreement with the kids. I would have a legal one drawn up though, like how he did to you with the paperwork already that he left on your car.


Well the paperwork he left in my car I've disregarded, it isn't legal. He printed it off the internet. I will look at things and figure it out. Off to wire money to the PI. I just look at it as, I won't regret doing it, but I might regret not doing it as this opportunity arises.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> Wait. I never told him to F off. I actually didn't even really yell at him.





LonelyNLost said:


> Yes, I have raised my voice, as would anyone that has been lied to repeatedly.


Again, I'll ask, which is it?

Again, I'll suggest that, once you are called out on your actions, you go back and smooth over.

Yes, but...

Look, I'm not trying to tear you down. I know it feels like it, but I'm really not. I'm trying to help you see that your actions are HELPING him dig his heels in.

Is it your fault he cheated? Of course not.

But ever since this started, your posts have been full of examples of driving him away.

It's a personality difference, obviously, between the two of you. You're a strong personality. You claim passivity, but your posts suggest anything but that.

I'm only trying to get you to see that, if you don't want the divorce, if you do want him back...you are not helping the situation. You're not giving him a reason to come back. You're so reactionary that you're proving to him that he was right in leaving you. Don't you see that? Don't you see that, if you want him back - and it's obvious you do, no matter how hard you protest you're through - you have to change what you're doing?

And even if you don't want him back, you need to pull back. Maybe you're just venting here and you're actiing like a saint when you're around him. We don't know. But when you look back on this in 30 years, no matter how it turns out, I hope you can see that your need to prove him wrong, to be the one seen as the victim, to have the last word, wasn't the path to give you the most peace. 

Pulling back, sending him away, controlling your words and actions, and being a good role model for the kids are what will matter in the end. And it's what will give you the most peace.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Well the paperwork he left in my car I've disregarded, it isn't legal. He printed it off the internet. I will look at things and figure it out. Off to wire money to the PI. I just look at it as, I won't regret doing it, but I might regret not doing it as this opportunity arises.


I don't know who you'd show pictures to - she's very public about her affections and I would assume his mom knows too. His mom befriended the woman and her family on facebook and can read all the messages she posts and more. No photo from PI from this weekend will provide any new news or surprises for anyone. According to him - they started up serious after you were left. Please just let it go! It's only hurting you more!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> He wants me to file. That way he can just tell people "we grew apart and she filed for divorce."


So what?

Once again, you are making decisions based on external issues instead of being logical.


----------



## turnera

golfergirl said:


> I don't know who you'd show pictures to - she's very public about her affections and I would assume his mom knows too. His mom befriended the woman and her family on facebook and can read all the messages she posts and more. No photo from PI from this weekend will provide any new news or surprises for anyone. According to him - they started up serious after you were left. Please just let it go! It's only hurting you more!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, but it will make Lonely _*feel*_ good. And apparently, that's all that matters.

Of course, once MrLonely's lawyer shows the pictures and the confrontation and the FB barrage to the judge, she may not be feeling as good.

sigh


----------



## Jellybeans

Lonely, everyone her eis telling you not to post pics on FB. Please heed our advice. You already went hte wa of the PI. They are going to tell you what you already know, w/ more confirmation and pictures. And you are going to be more pissed when you "see" it. It's going to cut you like a knife, wide open. It's masochistic.

His mother already knows. If she is friends w/ her online, she knows. Esp. if she can see all the trash OW is posting, to bait you. And it's working. 

Best way to handle this -- let go as fast as you can. It will hurt like hell and for a long time but don't make this harder than it has to be.


----------



## tamara24

Lonely,

First, sit down and take a breathe. Do not hire the PI. Take that 400.00 and go spend the day at the spa,go get the new do,go buy yourself some lovely new summer frocks. Do not use the money on him! Even if you came up and said those things it would ensue into a bigger fight and he probably would tell you,well ya blamed me so I figured I might as well do it if I am going to be accused......
You need that to help YOU. To make YOU feel better and to help YOU with your issues.

Right now, you are so emotional and hurt that you need time to just let it sink in. Make a list of things you feel you would be comfortable. In the meantime,stay dark. Hugs!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DelinquentGurl

It's very frustrating to try to give advice to someone who obviously doesn't want it.

Lost...some of your actions make you sound down right crazy. You are driving him away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Babyheart

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> 
> First, sit down and take a breathe. Do not hire the PI. Take that 400.00 and go spend the day at the spa,go get the new do,go buy yourself some lovely new summer frocks. Do not use the money on him! Even if you came up and said those things it would ensue into a bigger fight and he probably would tell you,well ya blamed me so I figured I might as well do it if I am going to be accused......
> You need that to help YOU. To make YOU feel better and to help YOU with your issues.
> 
> Right now, you are so emotional and hurt that you need time to just let it sink in. Make a list of things you feel you would be comfortable. In the meantime,stay dark. Hugs!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


PLEASE DO THIS!! Do not waste your money on a PI. You know what's going on. Everybody knows what's going on, it will be no shock to anybody. 

You have got to let it go. You are only causing yourself more pain. Stop looking at OWs FB page. LET IT GO! For your own sake.


----------



## LonelyNLost

> Wait. I never told him to F off. I actually didn't even really yell at him.
> 
> Yes, I have raised my voice, as would anyone that has been lied to repeatedly.
> 
> Again, I'll ask, which is it?
> 
> Again, I'll suggest that, once you are called out on your actions, you go back and smooth over.


Well, for one, I was talking about about last night in the first quote, and two, I was talking about in this whole process in the second one. 

I'm really not a strong personality, I've just been driven by all this and reacted emotionally. I'm not acting crazy around him. Not at all. Sorry my actions pushed him away, but I could imagine they would when you look at someone you've hurt and it's a reminder of the guilt you carry and the pain you cause. 

I don't need the last word or to win or be right. I need an apology that I probably won't ever get. So I'll settle for knowing I'm not crazy and that all of this happened just like I felt it did. I need to see if for my own eyes for closure. To see him for what he is...an adulterer. A liar. Not the man I married. 



> Pulling back, sending him away, controlling your words and actions, and being a good role model for the kids are what will matter in the end. And it's what will give you the most peace.


You are right. And I've pulled way back, not told him I want him to go away, but he knows I'm done after last night, and I am a good role model for my kids. I am at peace. I am just feeling like I need to know what happened so that my next relationship doesn't meet a similar fate.


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> I don't know who you'd show pictures to - she's very public about her affections and I would assume his mom knows too. His mom befriended the woman and her family on facebook and can read all the messages she posts and more. No photo from PI from this weekend will provide any new news or surprises for anyone. According to him - they started up serious after you were left. Please just let it go! It's only hurting you more!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know what I'd do with the pictures, tbh. If the ticket is exposure, why am I being blasted for planning to expose? His parents are probably turning a blind eye. I just want it for closure. I can't explain I guess in words, since everyone thinks I'm crazy. 



turnera said:


> So what?
> 
> Once again, you are making decisions based on external issues instead of being logical.


If he is initiating this and wants the divorce, then I'm letting him do it. Then he can live with his choice.



turnera said:


> Yes, but it will make Lonely _*feel*_ good. And apparently, that's all that matters.
> 
> Of course, once MrLonely's lawyer shows the pictures and the confrontation and the FB barrage to the judge, she may not be feeling as good.
> 
> sigh


Why are you being so mean? I have done nothing but try to save my marriage and love my husband while he's wiped his feet on me. I'm entitled to feel good. If I feel like this will give me closure, then so be it.

I'm not confronting him and I didn't say I was putting it all on facebook. I don't know what I'll do.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I am at peace. I am just feeling like I need to know what happened so that my next relationship doesn't meet a similar fate.


Good to know that you're at peace. That's what really matters.

And I totally understand the need to know the truth.

Let me just suggest, one last thing, that, if you DO see him there cheating on you...THAT is not going to be what keeps your next relationship from meeting a similar fate. How could it? 

Analyzing the entire relationship could - his actions as well as yours. Please focus on that moving forward.

{{{Lonely}}}


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Lonely, everyone her eis telling you not to post pics on FB. Please heed our advice. You already went hte wa of the PI. They are going to tell you what you already know, w/ more confirmation and pictures. And you are going to be more pissed when you "see" it. It's going to cut you like a knife, wide open. It's masochistic.
> 
> His mother already knows. If she is friends w/ her online, she knows. Esp. if she can see all the trash OW is posting, to bait you. And it's working.
> 
> Best way to handle this -- let go as fast as you can. It will hurt like hell and for a long time but don't make this harder than it has to be.


I feel like I'd regret it if I didn't do it. I know it will hurt. I guess I can't explain it. I am not sure what I'll do with it. I'm not sure I'd post it on facebook. I don't even have anything yet. I feel like I need this to let go and move on. To see him for the monster he is, that's lied and manipulated me.



tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> 
> First, sit down and take a breathe. Do not hire the PI. Take that 400.00 and go spend the day at the spa,go get the new do,go buy yourself some lovely new summer frocks. Do not use the money on him! Even if you came up and said those things it would ensue into a bigger fight and he probably would tell you,well ya blamed me so I figured I might as well do it if I am going to be accused......
> You need that to help YOU. To make YOU feel better and to help YOU with your issues.
> 
> Right now, you are so emotional and hurt that you need time to just let it sink in. Make a list of things you feel you would be comfortable. In the meantime,stay dark. Hugs!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know, he'll have some excuse. He's justified it all in his head. Hence the admitting they've been "talking". I really don't think I'd say anything to him. I'd just save the pics for an opportune moment. 



DelinquentGurl said:


> It's very frustrating to try to give advice to someone who obviously doesn't want it.
> 
> Lost...some of your actions make you sound down right crazy. You are driving him away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What have I done that is crazy? What advice do I obviously not want? Yes, I talk out my arse about doing certain things, but I don't always do them. Just the thought of them entertain me. Humor is my way of dealing with this all. I'm not driving him away, he's driving himself away. I'm done being a doormat and believing his crap. 



Babyheart said:


> PLEASE DO THIS!! Do not waste your money on a PI. You know what's going on. Everybody knows what's going on, it will be no shock to anybody.
> 
> You have got to let it go. You are only causing yourself more pain. Stop looking at OWs FB page. LET IT GO! For your own sake.


I know. I do. I'm working on it. It won't happen overnight. I'm still really raw from yesterday. It will be a shock to some people. But it doesn't matter to others as much as it affects me. But I want this as closure.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Good to know that you're at peace. That's what really matters.
> 
> And I totally understand the need to know the truth.
> 
> Let me just suggest, one last thing, that, if you DO see him there cheating on you...THAT is not going to be what keeps your next relationship from meeting a similar fate. How could it?
> 
> Analyzing the entire relationship could - his actions as well as yours. Please focus on that moving forward.
> 
> {{{Lonely}}}


Well, yeah, I know. I understand we had our own cracks in the foundation of our marriage, which allowed her way in. But the fact that I've been manipulated and lied to all along the way is another story. I know that him cheating and me catching him doesn't prevent that fate again, but it will help explain his behavior and blame shifting and rewriting history.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> Why are you being so mean? I have done nothing but try to save my marriage and love my husband while he's wiped his feet on me. I'm entitled to feel good. If I feel like this will give me closure, then so be it.
> 
> I'm not confronting him and I didn't say I was putting it all on facebook. I don't know what I'll do.


 Lonely, I'm not trying to be mean. I'm serious! I've tried to give advice on hundreds and hundreds of cases just like yours. I've watched them from initial posts...I've seen people follow advice, I've seen people ignore advice...I've seen people hang on for YEARS because they're afraid to lose their spouse...I've seen people throw the jerk out the first DAY...and I've seen every variety of reaction by the betrayed spouse.

I've tried to show you, in every way I can think of, what works. I've tried to explain the psychology behind what he does, what you do, what we want to do vs. what is best for us.

I KNOW you're trying to do what's right. 

But I also see a lot of ways you could have done things differently and, because of your emotion, you've gone in opposite directions.

My only reason for being on your thread, spending so much time, is to try to guide you to a solution for YOU. One that saves you from as much pain as possible. 

You're a beautiful person and you don't deserve this. But, just like ALL of us, you do certain things that are detrimental to your own well-being. I tried to point out the ones I saw. I tried to show you alternatives. Some you took, some you didn't, as is your choice. 

I'm sorry I hurt you. I can be pretty abrasive. But I mean the best for you. I hope that, later on, when your nerves aren't so tight and you aren't so defensive and focused on what HE has done to YOU, you can come back and reread this thread and pick out the constructive criticism and ask yourself if you could now take a better look at it.

You say you want to have a better next relationship. I'm respectfully suggesting that THIS is the best option you have for achieving that. I wish you success.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> To see him for the monster he is, that's lied and manipulated me.


I have one last suggestion. I know that, right now, you need to see him as a monster. To help YOU deal with it. 

But you know down deep that he's not a psychopath, not a compulsive liar.

He's just an average guy who once loved his wife and his family more than anything. 

And then he caught the 'bug.' The 'fog.' The heroin that, once it got in his veins, made him rewrite history, lie, hide, and throw his whole life away just to keep feeling the heroin.

He's a wayward, just like nearly every other wayward. Maybe some day the heroin will wear off, and he'll see what he did. Maybe it won't. 

But I hope that you allow yourself to use this version of him for as long as you need it but, eventually, you heal enough to be able to throw it away and see him again as just a guy you once loved, the father of your children, who was weak and made a mistake. 

For your kids. And for your own heart.


----------



## BIP

turnera said:


> I have one last suggestion. I know that, right now, you need to see him as a monster. To help YOU deal with it.
> 
> But you know down deep that he's not a psychopath, not a compulsive liar.
> 
> He's just an average guy who once loved his wife and his family more than anything.
> 
> And then he caught the 'bug.' The 'fog.' The heroin that, once it got in his veins, made him rewrite history, lie, hide, and throw his whole life away just to keep feeling the heroin.
> 
> He's a wayward, just like nearly every other wayward. Maybe some day the heroin will wear off, and he'll see what he did. Maybe it won't.
> 
> But I hope that you allow yourself to use this version of him for as long as you need it but, eventually, you heal enough to be able to throw it away and see him again as just a guy you once loved, the father of your children, who was weak and made a mistake.
> 
> For your kids. And for your own heart.


Turnera, You have an amazing way with words. The part about him rewriting history really hits home for me. Does he really believe that stories he creates???

Lost, I haven't followed for a few days, but I'm very sad to hear that you are continuing to allow yourself to be provoked. Can you just take a weekend away from your computer and enjoy your kids? Cook something wonderful? See a movie? Buy yourself something cute? Take a breath?


----------



## tamara24

Lonely,

Right now your emotions are high and sometimes that is what leads us to do things that we look back later and say,WTH was I thinking???? Nobody here thinks you are crazy,but we are outside of the situation and some of these people have seen the same senerio over and over and know what works.

That being said, you have to make choices that are right for you. We can only lend advice and tell you what we know from experience. You are the ultimate decision maker. 

Allow yourself time to grieve,cry,get mad,frustrated and overwhelmed. Then make your decision. Don't go running into the fire without the fireproof vest,ok? 

Let's see if explaining. It differently will help. Think of thhe hubby. Even before he decided to be unfaithful,he had to make you the bad guy. You didn't fulfill his needs,you called him when he met the OW,you said abad thing about him on facebook,you drove him to the edge. All these excuses, and guess what? He. Sees you as all those things everytime you nag,accuse, try to explain,vent, or even breathe. He has to keep you in that position because it is the only way he can justify his actions. Now, you do know these are all his issues not yours. He most likely was very lonely, talked to the OW, and she stroked his ego. All the sudden his little ray of sunshine in this lonely world came bursting forth. He knows deep down that you did not cause this mess by yourself,but he can reason in his head,she didn't make me feel good anymore and this OW does. The OW doesn't yell at me for not keeping my responsibilities,she strokes my bruised ego and tells me how great I am. My wife just wants to remind me of all I do wrong. It doesn't matter that he had a role to play in this. He is justifying his actions. He has convinced himself,you are this horrible person that doesn't understand him anymore. 

Telling you because you wrote spineless on facebook caused your marraige to break up,just shows how he is grasping at straws. He is back at high school and wants to dump his girlfriend to see someone else so he has to make himself into the victim so he can justify his breakup, with himself and his buddies and anyone else that is close to. Him.

Anything you do,face the OW, yell at him, telling him he is in the fog just justifys his actions(to himself). See? This why I had to leave?? The more ammunition you give him the more he can justify. The less ammunition you give him by staying calm and cool,looking happy, well dressed(not looking like the bum down the street),you tear down that huge wall he has built up with excuses. What is the ultimate revenge? By working on yourself, fixing the things that were broken inside of you. So when you re ready, you can move on and be happy. Right now it is about tough love. Ok, well this was your(hubby) decision to leave. Ok, so come get your stuff, change the locks,and meet him outside with your keys in hand and dressed with hair. And make up. Get in your car and leave even if you just go to the grocery store. Show him that you are tough,you will survive but will he? Get child support/alimony,whatever you feel you need to go on. Then sit back and watch the show. In a few months when he is writing the child support check and OW calls and says,hey fly out here and he says I can't afford to and I got the kids this weekend,how is she going to react? She will be mad,fights ensue and you did not. Even lift a finger! OW comes here, let's go to Disney! Can't afford it and we will have the kids,bummer. Wife won't exchange weekends to accomidate hubby's affair.FIGHT! All the sudden hubby notices the shiny new toy has lost it's luster and has grown two heads! WTH was I thinking?? So he goes over to his former home,sees the kids happy, you look great,everything is looking rosy for you and he is now living in regret!
The best revenge! Even sweeter, when he swallows his pride and admits his mistake. He won't stay in the fog forever. Your options are to remain calm and don't rush into acts led by emotion(even if you can justify them right now). You are waiting for the bell to go off inside his head. So give him doses of reality. Don't let him keep changing the agreed upon schedule. Sorry you can't take kids on Thursday but it is an agreed upon night and I already have plans,maybe your folks can watch them? Show him what he is missing. What are the consequences for his actions? Posting pictures,or even giving them to him at an opportune moment will not yield the same result. In the meantime, you become an even better and happier person! You win all the way around!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

I understand turnera. I do. And I appreciate your advice given. And I know I'm not perfect, but damn I've tried to save my marriage. But I do feel he's too deep in the fog, he's too weak and has allowed satan into his heart. And there's nothing I can do but detach and let go. 

I don't feel like I'm allowing myself to be provoked, only in that I engage with him and I let her page bother me. But I am going away to my parent's for the weekend. I am taking breaths. Little by little. 

But he is a compulsive liar. And he's treated me like scum. I need time to heal from that. I don't want this toxic relationship with him, but right now his anger is driving him and covering up the guilt. The guilt he swears he doesn't have.


----------



## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> 
> Right now your emotions are high and sometimes that is what leads us to do things that we look back later and say,WTH was I thinking???? Nobody here thinks you are crazy,but we are outside of the situation and some of these people have seen the same senerio over and over and know what works.
> 
> That being said, you have to make choices that are right for you. We can only lend advice and tell you what we know from experience. You are the ultimate decision maker.
> 
> Allow yourself time to grieve,cry,get mad,frustrated and overwhelmed. Then make your decision. Don't go running into the fire without the fireproof vest,ok?
> 
> Let's see if explaining. It differently will help. Think of thhe hubby. Even before he decided to be unfaithful,he had to make you the bad guy. You didn't fulfill his needs,you called him when he met the OW,you said abad thing about him on facebook,you drove him to the edge. All these excuses, and guess what? He. Sees you as all those things everytime you nag,accuse, try to explain,vent, or even breathe. He has to keep you in that position because it is the only way he can justify his actions. Now, you do know these are all his issues not yours. He most likely was very lonely, talked to the OW, and she stroked his ego. All the sudden his little ray of sunshine in this lonely world came bursting forth. He knows deep down that you did not cause this mess by yourself,but he can reason in his head,she didn't make me feel good anymore and this OW does. The OW doesn't yell at me for not keeping my responsibilities,she strokes my bruised ego and tells me how great I am. My wife just wants to remind me of all I do wrong. It doesn't matter that he had a role to play in this. He is justifying his actions. He has convinced himself,you are this horrible person that doesn't understand him anymore.
> 
> Telling you because you wrote spineless on facebook caused your marraige to break up,just shows how he is grasping at straws. He is back at high school and wants to dump his girlfriend to see someone else so he has to make himself into the victim so he can justify his breakup, with himself and his buddies and anyone else that is close to. Him.
> 
> Anything you do,face the OW, yell at him, telling him he is in the fog just justifys his actions(to himself). See? This why I had to leave?? The more ammunition you give him the more he can justify. The less ammunition you give him by staying calm and cool,looking happy, well dressed(not looking like the bum down the street),you tear down that huge wall he has built up with excuses. What is the ultimate revenge? By working on yourself, fixing the things that were broken inside of you. So when you re ready, you can move on and be happy. Right now it is about tough love. Ok, well this was your(hubby) decision to leave. Ok, so come get your stuff, change the locks,and meet him outside with your keys in hand and dressed with hair. And make up. Get in your car and leave even if you just go to the grocery store. Show him that you are tough,you will survive but will he? Get child support/alimony,whatever you feel you need to go on. Then sit back and watch the show. In a few months when he is writing the child support check and OW calls and says,hey fly out here and he says I can't afford to and I got the kids this weekend,how is she going to react? She will be mad,fights ensue and you did not. Even lift a finger! OW comes here, let's go to Disney! Can't afford it and we will have the kids,bummer. Wife won't exchange weekends to accomidate hubby's affair.FIGHT! All the sudden hubby notices the shiny new toy has lost it's luster and has grown two heads! WTH was I thinking?? So he goes over to his former home,sees the kids happy, you look great,everything is looking rosy for you and he is now living in regret!
> The best revenge! Even sweeter, when he swallows his pride and admits his mistake. He won't stay in the fog forever. Your options are to remain calm and don't rush into acts led by emotion(even if you can justify them right now). You are waiting for the bell to go off inside his head. So give him doses of reality. Don't let him keep changing the agreed upon schedule. Sorry you can't take kids on Thursday but it is an agreed upon night and I already have plans,maybe your folks can watch them? Show him what he is missing. What are the consequences for his actions? Posting pictures,or even giving them to him at an opportune moment will not yield the same result. In the meantime, you become an even better and happier person! You win all the way around!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great post. I wanted to respond before I ran off. Gotta get packing. I know our conversation did no good the other night. But it allowed me to vent and hear some things. I wish I could have recorded the conversation because honestly, he contradicted himself a million times and was ridiculous. I told him twice, that one day he will realize his mistake. And when that happens he owes me a conversation. He said okay. But then another time said he wasn't making a mistake he was doing what makes him happy. I then told him to not be mistaken, I won't be taking him back at that point because I'm moving on, but he does need to come clean and apologize for how he's treated me if he ever expects an ounce of respect from me. I told him how he was all concerned about losing his best friend in me, and how he wanted us to be cordial for the kids, and I told him that can't happen when he treats me like yesterday's trash. 

He came and got his stuff yesterday. Original wedding band out of my jewelry box and all. He took everything that was on his dresser and in his nightstand. Even all the cards and love notes from me. Might be in the trash, I don't know. He did forget a few things, but he also took some collectable die cast cars that we got together and are worth quite a bit of money. But do I push that issue? He left me the tv's, furniture, everything. I don't want him to get petty. I'd like to be able to keep my life in tact for the kids as much as possible. 

He told me about Thursday two weeks ago, I even tried to tell him I had plans and he said he gave me notice. I might try to say I'll bring them by his parent's. That would be interesting. I think he might be taking her to the airport that day or something. That would be my guess. But it doesn't matter. Whatever I find I'll just hold onto as ammo. I really don't think there's any coming back from this. We are getting divorced. The bell will go off in his head too late. Even if it went off tomorrow, it would be too late. He'll have to live with the consequences of his actions.


----------



## Jellybeans

tamara24 said:


> Right now your emotions are high and sometimes that is what leads us to do things that we look back later and say,WTH was I thinking????


Gosh, this is so true. I did so many things that were stupid and so unlike me when I found out he stayed in touch w/ her and also when I got the paperwork from his lawyer. Like stuff I won't even write here because he's embarassing and I have to swallow my pride. LOL. I wish so badly I would have taken all the advice everyone gave me at the time -- sign nothing, get a lawyer, go dark. Hindsight though...always 20/20. Damn. 



tamara24 said:


> Telling you because you wrote spineless on facebook caused your marraige to break up,just shows how he is grasping at straws.


Spot on. Tamara, you explained everything so well. All waywards make their spouses The Bad Guy because it's the only way they can right the wrong they are doing in their mind. 

Ya know, I'dve read so many cheating/affair stories and they are all the same: spouse gets involved with someon else, starts being mean to their SO, starts saying they need space/are confused, the infidelity is discovered and they say it has nothing to do with hwo they are feeling--they just want out and they never loved their SO/shoulda gotten married, they[ve been unhappy for so long, "JI want a divorce/separation" and there is too much damage to save our Marriage. 

It's textbook. Everytime, that is how it read. And it always seemingly comes out of the blue "My husband/wife told me he/she doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce and I dont understand what is happening! He/she says they've been unhappy for a long time and they don't want to do marriage counselling--please help me!"

It is seriously the same story ove rand over, so much that just rading the first 3 lines of someone's post, you can usually a gauge if it's an affair or not. 

Anywhoo. Lonely, you are going to do whatever you want (PI, Pictures, wanting to find Hub w/ Skank, etc) so we can't stop you but we can tell you what we can all see from the outside looking in. He isn't worth your time anymore, sugar doll. You are lightyears better off w/o him. The man he is now...you dont want him. 

The "fog" WILL lift one day and the shiny, new feeling will too. No saying when that will happen but as in all relationships, that exciting/cloud 9 head/mush feeling does wear off, and then the real relationship starts. Rest assured he will think about what he did to you one day, just not saying when. He already knows what he's done is wrong that is why he keeps covering it up and blocking you and laughing at you. He knows he f-cked up. But that is not your problem anymore. He made his choice.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I then told him to not be mistaken, I won't be taking him back at that point because I'm moving on, but he does need to come clean and apologize for how he's treated me if he ever expects an ounce of respect from me..


Right now you are in the thick of it so it's hard for you to see, but you will eventually realize you may never get closure from him and just have to deal with it. My now-ex neer once apologized for cheating on me or for the divorce. He did tell me twice though he felt he was making a major mistake and that he would have to live w/ it for the rest of his life but he never came out and expressed full remorse and sincere apologies. I wanted that closure so badly from him but eventually just accepted he would never tell me the truth about her and also he may never ever apologize for how he handled things on his end. 

I told him how he was all concerned about losing his best friend in me, and how he wanted us to be cordial for the kids, and I told him that can't happen when he treats me like yesterday's trash. 



LonelyNLost said:


> He told me about Thursday two weeks ago, I even tried to tell him I had plans and he said he gave me notice. I might try to say I'll bring them by his parent's. That would be interesting. I think he might be taking her to the airport that day or something. That would be my guess. But it doesn't matter. Whatever I find I'll just hold onto as ammo. I really don't think there's any coming back from this. We are getting divorced. The bell will go off in his head too late. Even if it went off tomorrow, it would be too late. He'll have to live with the consequences of his actions.


You really need to get a custody agreement in writing. Cause it's going to get ugly fast. Right now he is going to only try to have the kids when it's convenient for him and if they interfere in his time w/ her, he is going to axe his plans with his kids (he's already started doing it). I would NOT budge. He wants to ahve his affair partner, she is going to have to have ALL of him, including the fact he's a father with a schedule for seeing his kids. Don't roll over for him. Put your foot down when it comes to that.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Wow, she is bringing her 11 year old son! This just gets trashier by the moment. OMG. I figured out her flight info without the PI. But he's going to check and make sure they are on the flight. 

It is appalling that he's ditching his kids on Easter and next Thursday's visitation to spend it with this skank and HER son. Guess that's his new family. He's spending Easter with them and not us. Wow.


----------



## Jellybeans

This is why you need a written agreement.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> This is why you need a written agreement.


We have an emailed agreement. The lawyer said that was good enough for now. I even confirmed it and he said yes it was good. So it is set, just not legalized. There really isn't anything legal until the divorce is final here.


----------



## Jellybeans

And that could be....wh onknows when.

It's obvious he is not going to want to have the kids on his days w/ her. Trust me. Fantasy/Candy Land doesn't include having the kids there 24/7 yet for him and her. Reality is a b*tch and the sooner he gets this message, sweet!


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> And that could be....wh onknows when.
> 
> It's obvious he is not going to want to have the kids on his days w/ her. Trust me. Fantasy/Candy Land doesn't include having the kids there 24/7 yet for him and her. Reality is a b*tch and the sooner he gets this message, sweet!


I hope he gets a dose of reality hanging with her and her kid. He's 11, and IMO, as a teacher of elementary aged kids and having a brother that age, it is not a pleasant age. LOL. Remember, she lives far far away, so he probably can't inconvenience me with the kid schedule very often. But I am keeping track. In the least, I'll have proof of where he was this weekend so that he couldn't see his kids on Easter.

My mom says I should play the helpless one this weekend. Text him and call him with crisises. Like, "The fridge is broken, what do I do?" Or, "I'm broken down on I4, my car won't start. Help me figure out what to do." (he's a mechanic and would be fairly close to being able to help us) I think that would be reality and it would annoy the crap out of her. But that's not going dark.


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## LonelyNLost

HOLY CRAP! 

So, her post about her being at the airport? He commented on it with three hearts and then I CAN'T FRIGGIN WAIT!!!! and three more hearts. What a *********.


----------



## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> HOLY CRAP!
> 
> So, her post about her being at the airport? He commented on it with three hearts and then I CAN'T FRIGGIN WAIT!!!! and three more hearts. What a *********.


Screen shot and save!


----------



## LonelyNLost

whereami said:


> screen shot and save!


done! Good thing I did it then, because now it's gone. Right after I emailed it to his best friend. Think he might be playing both sides. That's handy to know.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> HOLY CRAP!
> 
> So, her post about her being at the airport? He commented on it with three hearts and then I CAN'T FRIGGIN WAIT!!!! and three more hearts. What a *********.


Please stop looking at their pages. The pictures you get are going to make it 1000x worse than this. She is a homewrecker and he is an idiot. The sick thing is, I very firmly believe she wants you to see everything and that is why she is posting it. Cause she knows you look. 

Your husband is making me feel violent. So is this woman! 

As for your post over in Coping with Infidelity, I hope you realize we are not "blasting" you on this thread, as you stated. We are trying to help you and give you advice.


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## tamara24

She wants you to see and cry,bit$%, and moan and yell at hubby. Stay dark. Tell hubby,from this moment on, all changes to the agreed time with the kids must be written or emailed and confirmed by the other. You will not be contributing to his time with the affair. Smile!

She wants him,she gets all! Kids that are tired,cranky,unfed,whatever! Life as an adulteress is not as fun when you add more kids to demand dads attention! Remeber, you get what you pay for! When you get it free, it comes as cheap as ever!

Take the weekend, enjoy Easter with the kids and breathe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I understand turnera. I do. And I appreciate your advice given. And I know I'm not perfect, but damn I've tried to save my marriage. But I do feel he's too deep in the fog, he's too weak and has allowed satan into his heart. And there's nothing I can do but detach and let go.


Ok, let me call you out again.
"I'm hiring a PI. I MAY post the pics of proof on FB to prove I'm right and he's wrong. I HAVE to know."

vs

"There's nothing I can do but detach and let go."

Which is it?




> I don't feel like I'm allowing myself to be provoked, only in that I engage with him and I let her page bother me. But I am going away to my parent's for the weekend. I am taking breaths. Little by little.
> 
> But he is a compulsive liar. And he's treated me like scum. I need time to heal from that. I don't want this toxic relationship with him, but right now his anger is driving him and covering up the guilt. The guilt he swears he doesn't have.


 So what?

What does that have to do with you?


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## LonelyNLost

She is flying into Tampa right here where we live! So much for Orlando. What a hoe bag!


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## turnera

Well, you can always meet them at the airport...

Hand her a picture of his kids...lol

AND his suitcase full of the rest of his stuff.

J/K


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## Jellybeans

^ Don't give her any ideas, T. LOL. 

Seriously, though, stay away Lonely. He is a ********* and so is she!

You said: 

_I don't want this toxic relationship with him, but right now his anger is driving him and covering up the guilt. The guilt he swears he doesn't have._ 

If he has no guilt at all, then that should make you want to move on even faster.


----------



## DawnD

LostNLonely ~~ 

I have finally caught up LOL. Whew. The awesome thing is that you have gotten such good advice so far from so many people. Here is the bad thing. All you can do is ASSUME that he is feeling guilt and shame. Honestly, I don't think he is. He is probably feeling some entitlement to happiness at all costs, his ego is soaring right now, and relief that he is now moving onto something he perceives as "easier". Well, she IS easier in one sense of the word ( ha ha ha) but he is on cloud nine. I know you have been married quite a while. I know you feel that you know your husband. And you did know the guy you married. You DON"T know this guy. This isn't the same man, he has evolved and changed. Don't assume anything right now. Don't picture him writhing in guilt and shame, because he is not. He is doing just as he pleases, and doing it happily.


----------



## Jellybeans

He is too high right now to feel guilty. That will come later. He might feel pangs of it each time the kids are dropped off but he is super stoned on the dopamine at present time.


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## tamara24

You He may still be caught up in the affair but I think he feels guilty and that is why he keeps saying the marraige is over cause you wrote on facebook. Really,how old are you? I am leaving cause you pushed me to the edge.Doesn't everybody get extremely mad with their spouses? He is justifying his actions so much that he is trying to push away the guilt.he feels so guilty he can't even say things to her face to face,he takes the cowards way out by texting. He wears sunglasses so he doesn't have to look her in the eye. When he does finally let the guilt in,look out!

Lonely keep investing into yourself. You need to start thinking about you and those kids. How do you want thinks to work to make your life easier. Start writing down things you want to change about you. Preparing a mental list of things that you will not tolerate from hubby,disrespect, lying,visitations. Stay calm and wait until you are not ruled by emotions. Wait until he files so you have time to think about what you want. I wouldn't mediate at this point until he starts talking to you directly. My thinking,you may never get total closure from him but at least some of your feelings will get closure. The more he talks, you can see how much he is in the fog and what he is really thinking instead of the bull he texts to you.

I hope you enjoy your weekend,it is supposed to be sunny this weekend,go catch some rays by the beach and relax. You can't control him and you can't fix stupid so don't give him all your energy. Focus on the kids and yourself. If your not mad enough, here is a thought. The man you loved just dumped you but now your kids. The tramp comes to town, and stupid doesn't even think about how not seeing his kids will effect them. He is all about himself these days and that is why you need to be all about yourself right now. He is not thinking about the kids,and how all this is hurting them. As moms, we see the kids as an extention of ourselves. You may hurt me but not the kids. Now you need to start thinking what is best for them.. write down when he is too busy to see his own kids,save every email. Never answer anything he says when he is provoking a response. You are better than this and you deserve better. Start working on yourself so when your ready, some man will sweep you off your feet and be thankful you are the woman you are!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Just an update. Not much luck with the PI yet. Darn! The PI didn't follow him from his parent's house, they waited at the airport for her flight. They saw her and her son get off, get their luggage, and hop in a cab. No sign of H. He was a step ahead. The PI admitted he messed up, so he said he'd give me another day. Since we are chasing a ghost (no more posts on her facebook), we're going to have to wait until Tuesday when he's supposed to pick up the kids for an hour, and then they'll follow him from there.

When the PI hadn't heard back from his guys, he called me. He asked if I had heard from him. I said we are no contact. He told me to call him with a story. So I did. I called and told him I was having car problems and he acted really irritated. He asked where I was and what was going on. I asked if he could come and he kind of growled. I said sorry for inconveniencing you. I asked where he was and he said "driving". I said "where" and he got angry and was like "why does it matter where I am" and then said he was going to his parent's house. I told him I'd call him back. He called me back 15 minutes later and I told him I had gotten a ride and was having the car towed. He was mean. I texted him to ask where I should have it towed and he replied and then I replied back and said, "You don't have to be so mean. Sorry for bothering you. I guess I'll find someone else to help me out. I'm still your wife and I'll always be the mother of your children." He replied, "I wasn't being mean. I just don't know what kind of game you're playing right now." I didn't respond.

Then, we had agreed via email that whoever had the kids would have the kids call the other parent as close to 8 as possible. I didn't want him to know we were at my mom's and I didn't want the kids to have to lie. And honestly, lately when I tell my son that it's time to call dad, he groans and says "why do I have to call him every day?" So I waited until 8:35 and I texted him and said, "forgot to tell you, I'm out and my mom is watching the kids at the house. If you want to talk to them call her phone." And he replied 10 minutes later, "Thanks for the heads up at 8:40." Jerk. He probably left his new family somewhere to go wait for their call and was pissed. Of course he didn't call my mom. But my mom did send him a facebook message saying she didn't hear from him and she asked our son if he wanted to call and he said he didn't have to call every day. 

I'm so sick thinking of what he's doing. He even stopped at the grocery store on the way to meet them and looking at the amount he probably bought flowers. What a scumbag.


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## LonelyNLost

*JB* ~ I'm feeling pretty violent. My mom thinks she's taunting me too. But I really think they have no clue. At least my husband has no clue. He wouldn't be posting like that. The thing is, his mom can see, unless she's blocked her from her wall. 

I know you weren't blasting me. But I am getting flak for going the PI route. I just think it's a difference from one person to another. And I really do think he has guilt. A lot of it. The fact that he was angry with me the other night allowed him to look at me and say he has none. It was an oscar worthy performance. The fact that he dodges any issues with the kids and is shutting out his friends is another sign.


*turnera* ~ I do have to detach and let go, and I am. It IS the only thing I can do. But I also need to know. I can't explain why I just need this as closure. I guess I need to see the proof of my suspicions blaring me in the face in order to give up all the hopes and dreams that came with my commitment to my marriage. To see him for what and who he really is. And I will NOT have any sort of relationship while he continues to lie and disrespect me and treat me like crap. That's what it has to do with me. I go through a lot of emotions from one minute to the next.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't think about standing at the luggage pickup and welcoming her to town, LOL. 


*Dawn* ~ Thanks for reading my novel and catching up. I do sense the entitlement to happiness on his part. I even asked him during the conversation the other night to do me a favor and not instill the same sense of entitlement to happiness in our children as he has in himself. I told him that you are responsible for your own happiness, and part of that is fulfilling a commitment and living with integrity. Anyhow, I do think he feels guilt. You can see it in his face, the way he hides behind the computer and texts, the way he avoids his friends. And you are right, he is NOT the same man right now and I don't know this guy. I have told him that several times. His ego is being stroked. 


*tamara* ~ Again, your thinking is spot on with mine and in line with what my family and friends say. The justifying of his actions and decision to be "done" reek of guilt. These are the things he is saying in his head and I could tell they sounded stupid to him when he said them. What's going to happen when he really feels the guilt of what he's done? He's always talked about how disgusting cheating is, he is warping that around now. All my concern over him hanging out with two cheater friends, and him saying "what kind of person do you think I am? They aren't going to make me thing cheating is acceptable." C.R.A.P.

Mediation isn't done until he files. I am thinking about what I want. I know what I want. I want to get out of this marriage with as much of my life intact as possible. I want my kids to have stability and security with as little disruption as possible. I want him to treat me with dignity and respect, and I want the lies to stop. And the games. I'd love for him to come clean about everything and at least apologize for manipulating me and dragging me through broken glass, but I know that won't happen. I told me when he did realize what he has done, he owes me a conversation. Instead of being ugly like before and saying, "I'm not doing anything wrong" he said "Okay. That's fair." Oh and here's the email I sent on Thursday...

_
Thank you for the counselor information. I will call and schedule asap.

I've been thinking about something. I'm really concerned with your unwillingness to spend any time with the children on Easter. Please reconsider, I really think they should see you on this first major holiday since all this happened. They need the reassurance that both of us love them even though we aren't under the same roof. Even if it's just for a little bit, I'd be willing to drop them off for you. I don't know what your plans are on Thursday, but it is unfortunate that this visitation schedule is already being interrupted. Even though they don't voice this to you, this is really difficult for them. I'm not trying to make you feel guilty, but I'm trying to look out for their best interests. 

Enjoy your weekend. Please let me know if you change your mind. 
_

I know some of you will blast me. But at least that's on record. And he didn't respond of course.


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## LonelyNLost

Oh and I really don't think she's taunting me now. I don't think she has a clue. Here's why...my mom got online last night and wanted to look at her page. So she went to MIL's page since they are mutual friends and the OW has blocked my mom. She can't see her in a search result or anything on facebook. That also tells me that she KNOWS what she is doing is wrong. Skank.


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## tamara24

I think your email was good. Polite, friendly. You know he won't answer cause he can't tell you,I can't come because my dirty skank is here. Now stop lokking and letting his every move control yourlife this weekend. You know what he is about, that isn't going to change just because you know. Unfortunatley, it will be there when you get back.

Of course the trash knows she is wrong,you don't think she has you and your mother blocked for a reason. It is hard to admit you are having an affair with a married man. I don't think if I was oing that, I can see why she should block you but it is interesting she blocked your mother. I usually don't block my boyfriends wife's mom.

I can already see this blowing up. These two think they are fooling the world and they finally get what they want and then break up because of all the guilt. Then neither can reconcile cause there exes moved on. How karma comes back and bites you in the tush!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

tamara24 said:


> I think your email was good. Polite, friendly. You know he won't answer cause he can't tell you,I can't come because my dirty skank is here. Now stop lokking and letting his every move control yourlife this weekend. You know what he is about, that isn't going to change just because you know. Unfortunatley, it will be there when you get back.
> 
> Of course the trash knows she is wrong,you don't think she has you and your mother blocked for a reason. It is hard to admit you are having an affair with a married man. I don't think if I was oing that, I can see why she should block you but it is interesting she blocked your mother. I usually don't block my boyfriends wife's mom.
> 
> I can already see this blowing up. These two think they are fooling the world and they finally get what they want and then break up because of all the guilt. Then neither can reconcile cause there exes moved on. How karma comes back and bites you in the tush!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The only thing I disagree with is them thinking they're fooling the world. The OW is fb friends with his mom. She sees posts and photos. I think he has brought his mom in the fog and justified to her why he's moved on. With her bringing her son here, it's not some lover's hookup, he's thinking family. Why didn't PI follow cab?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> I think your email was good. Polite, friendly. You know he won't answer cause he can't tell you,I can't come because my dirty skank is here. Now stop lokking and letting his every move control yourlife this weekend. You know what he is about, that isn't going to change just because you know. Unfortunatley, it will be there when you get back.
> 
> Of course the trash knows she is wrong,you don't think she has you and your mother blocked for a reason. It is hard to admit you are having an affair with a married man. I don't think if I was oing that, I can see why she should block you but it is interesting she blocked your mother. I usually don't block my boyfriends wife's mom.
> 
> I can already see this blowing up. These two think they are fooling the world and they finally get what they want and then break up because of all the guilt. Then neither can reconcile cause there exes moved on. How karma comes back and bites you in the tush!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I am the one that blocked her. So she had to go and block my mom and H had to tell her who my mom was. Does seem weird. I'm thinking MIL has to know, but then again, she was FB friends with her back in February when I was, and when H disappeared for his 5 days, both MIL and I were blocked from her wall.  So MIL could be blocked. But she HAS to know what's going on. I mean, what would H tell her his reason for disappearing for a week is?

Here's the fun part. I started thinking about two lies I told. And how I'm no better than him, and now he'll ask the kids and I will be busted. So I came clean to my son, and said that I didn't want Daddy to know we were out of town. And that I had told him we had car problems. I told him I didn't want him to lie, and that if he asked, that's what he was referring to. I told him I didn't want him to feel caught in the middle and he could just tell Daddy to ask me about it. My son has lately not been wanting to call Dad at night. We had agreed upon the one that has the kids initiating the phone call as close to 8pm as possible every night. On Thurs, he dropped them off at 7:30 and I didn't even think to have them call until 9:15pm. 

Then yesterday, I was so disgusted with it all I was curious if he was too busy to realize they hadn't called and maybe he'd send a text. Son did not want to call. He said that Dad told him he didn't have to call if he didn't want to. (Not sure if that's true...he got the lying gene from his father.) So at 8:38 I texted him and said, "Sorry, I forgot to tell you. My mom has the kids, so if you want to talk to them call her." He replied ten minutes later with, "Thanks for the heads up at 8:40 at night." I'm thinking he had to leave his ready made family to go wait for the call and was pissed. Idk. Maybe he forgot and was placing it back on me. But he did not call. My mom sent him a facebook message saying, "Jen told you I had the kids last night and we didn't hear from you. My number is --- in case you deleted it. I asked Tyler if he wanted to call and he said you told him he didn't need to call every night." He then responded this morning saying that we had made an agreement to call at 8 and he will be buying son a cell phone so he can call when he wants. Guess he didn't read the part about son not wanting to call his sorry arse? My mom responded before I had time to interfere and I'm not sure what she sent. He is going to obviously be ugly. 



golfergirl said:


> The only thing I disagree with is them thinking they're fooling the world. The OW is fb friends with his mom. She sees posts and photos. I think he has brought his mom in the fog and justified to her why he's moved on. With her bringing her son here, it's not some lover's hookup, he's thinking family. Why didn't PI follow cab?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Like I said above, the mom would have to be an idiot to not realize what's going on. I think you are right though, he got this sense of entitlement to happiness at any costs from his parents. He is probably telling her that there was never anything going on but now that he's done he is with her. Who knows? 

It is a lover's hookup, but maybe with the kid as an alibi saying it's just friends. You never know. Maybe the kid is baggage and a wonderful reminder of what he's left at home. I'm sure they'll go to Disney or Universal or something and I hope every time he sees a cute little 3 year old girl, or a handsome 8 year old boy, he is reminded of his own two children at home with their mom on Easter. 

I asked the PI why they didn't follow the cab, and the airport is wacky. They keep the traffic in the pickup constantly moving, and their car was probably parked in short term. I would have hopped another cab, but I just don't know why they didn't. Guess you get what you pay for, LOL. He said he'd give me another day, though. He's just waiting to hear from me, but I've got nothing. Tuesday he's supposed to get them from 6-7:30 and I hope he wouldn't have her and her kid with him. I am having the PI follow from there. He better not cancel on me. I will raise holy hell. I am so tempted to text his mom or leave a voicemail asking if she's turning a blind eye or if she's that oblivious and that I feel really betrayed by the stonewalling. But I know it won't make a difference.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Well, I am the one that blocked her. So she had to go and block my mom and H had to tell her who my mom was. Does seem weird. I'm thinking MIL has to know, but then again, she was FB friends with her back in February when I was, and when H disappeared for his 5 days, both MIL and I were blocked from her wall.  So MIL could be blocked. But she HAS to know what's going on. I mean, what would H tell her his reason for disappearing for a week is?
> 
> Here's the fun part. I started thinking about two lies I told. And how I'm no better than him, and now he'll ask the kids and I will be busted. So I came clean to my son, and said that I didn't want Daddy to know we were out of town. And that I had told him we had car problems. I told him I didn't want him to lie, and that if he asked, that's what he was referring to. I told him I didn't want him to feel caught in the middle and he could just tell Daddy to ask me about it. My son has lately not been wanting to call Dad at night. We had agreed upon the one that has the kids initiating the phone call as close to 8pm as possible every night. On Thurs, he dropped them off at 7:30 and I didn't even think to have them call until 9:15pm.
> 
> Then yesterday, I was so disgusted with it all I was curious if he was too busy to realize they hadn't called and maybe he'd send a text. Son did not want to call. He said that Dad told him he didn't have to call if he didn't want to. (Not sure if that's true...he got the lying gene from his father.) So at 8:38 I texted him and said, "Sorry, I forgot to tell you. My mom has the kids, so if you want to talk to them call her." He replied ten minutes later with, "Thanks for the heads up at 8:40 at night." I'm thinking he had to leave his ready made family to go wait for the call and was pissed. Idk. Maybe he forgot and was placing it back on me. But he did not call. My mom sent him a facebook message saying, "Jen told you I had the kids last night and we didn't hear from you. My number is --- in case you deleted it. I asked Tyler if he wanted to call and he said you told him he didn't need to call every night." He then responded this morning saying that we had made an agreement to call at 8 and he will be buying son a cell phone so he can call when he wants. Guess he didn't read the part about son not wanting to call his sorry arse? My mom responded before I had time to interfere and I'm not sure what she sent. He is going to obviously be ugly.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said above, the mom would have to be an idiot to not realize what's going on. I think you are right though, he got this sense of entitlement to happiness at any costs from his parents. He is probably telling her that there was never anything going on but now that he's done he is with her. Who knows?
> 
> It is a lover's hookup, but maybe with the kid as an alibi saying it's just friends. You never know. Maybe the kid is baggage and a wonderful reminder of what he's left at home. I'm sure they'll go to Disney or Universal or something and I hope every time he sees a cute little 3 year old girl, or a handsome 8 year old boy, he is reminded of his own two children at home with their mom on Easter.
> 
> I asked the PI why they didn't follow the cab, and the airport is wacky. They keep the traffic in the pickup constantly moving, and their car was probably parked in short term. I would have hopped another cab, but I just don't know why they didn't. Guess you get what you pay for, LOL. He said he'd give me another day, though. He's just waiting to hear from me, but I've got nothing. Tuesday he's supposed to get them from 6-7:30 and I hope he wouldn't have her and her kid with him. I am having the PI follow from there. He better not cancel on me. I will raise holy hell. I am so tempted to text his mom or leave a voicemail asking if she's turning a blind eye or if she's that oblivious and that I feel really betrayed by the stonewalling. But I know it won't make a difference.


I wouldn't text his mom. He's told her bs about you and she's no longer on your side and nothing you do will change her mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Just an update. Not much luck with the PI yet. Darn! The PI didn't follow him from his parent's house, they waited at the airport for her flight. They saw her and her son get off, get their luggage, and hop in a cab. No sign of H. He was a step ahead. The PI admitted he messed up, so he said he'd give me another day. Since we are chasing a ghost (no more posts on her facebook), we're going to have to wait until Tuesday when he's supposed to pick up the kids for an hour, and then they'll follow him from there.
> 
> When the PI hadn't heard back from his guys, he called me. He asked if I had heard from him. I said we are no contact. He told me to call him with a story. So I did. I called and told him I was having car problems and he acted really irritated. He asked where I was and what was going on. I asked if he could come and he kind of growled. I said sorry for inconveniencing you. I asked where he was and he said "driving". I said "where" and he got angry and was like "why does it matter where I am" and then said he was going to his parent's house. I told him I'd call him back. He called me back 15 minutes later and I told him I had gotten a ride and was having the car towed. He was mean. I texted him to ask where I should have it towed and he replied and then I replied back and said, "You don't have to be so mean. Sorry for bothering you. I guess I'll find someone else to help me out. I'm still your wife and I'll always be the mother of your children." He replied, "I wasn't being mean. I just don't know what kind of game you're playing right now." I didn't respond.
> 
> Then, we had agreed via email that whoever had the kids would have the kids call the other parent as close to 8 as possible. I didn't want him to know we were at my mom's and I didn't want the kids to have to lie. And honestly, lately when I tell my son that it's time to call dad, he groans and says "why do I have to call him every day?" So I waited until 8:35 and I texted him and said, "forgot to tell you, I'm out and my mom is watching the kids at the house. If you want to talk to them call her phone." And he replied 10 minutes later, "Thanks for the heads up at 8:40." Jerk. He probably left his new family somewhere to go wait for their call and was pissed. Of course he didn't call my mom. But my mom did send him a facebook message saying she didn't hear from him and she asked our son if he wanted to call and he said he didn't have to call every day.
> 
> I'm so sick thinking of what he's doing. He even stopped at the grocery store on the way to meet them and looking at the amount he probably bought flowers. What a scumbag.


Why did PI want you to call? Be careful kids often tell you what they think you want to hear. Son knows you're pissed at dad and in attempt to please you or your mom says he doesn't want to talk. It's common.
This story about car trouble has me worried. A lot of risk for no result.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24

No, don't text the mom. He has justified himself for leaving by poking holes in your credibility. You have no idea what he has told his mommy. He probably told her about the facebook comment and how physco you have become over the last few months. He probably told them he was going away for the week to get away from you and to think about things. Oh his friend is coming to Orlando so he might stop by and say hi. See how innocent he sounds. He is working them as well as you. He will have a story for everything and moms and dads are going to believe their kids.

I wouldn't tell son about lying. He is a kid. It will blurt out like lightening. Mom said. She lied to you when she n,oops! Then you will have to have a story for that. I don't think I lied to you cause the P.I. wanted agood start will fly to well.

If your arranged time is 8 and you forget to have the kids call,why doesn't hubby call them? Is his fingers broken or did they leave him along with his brain? Your son is a little young for a cell phone and it sounds to me that he put that in there to say hey lady,you won't keep my son from talking to me. And as far as saying hey I forgot to tell ya my mom has the kids.... like your lifes mission is to sit around. And wait for the clock to strike 8? The answer to that is. I am sorry I forgot to tell you, if the kids do not call at. Our arranged time, feel free to call them. I am very busy these days but I will not encourage the kids to not call you, you are their father and you deserve to communicate with them and I will not stand in the way of that. It implies, I am not keeping the kids from you or encouraging them not to call you. I am trying to be fair.the kids come first. Just don't let him use this to get you to agree to things for the sake of the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

tamara24 said:


> No, don't text the mom. He has justified himself for leaving by poking holes in your credibility. You have no idea what he has told his mommy. He probably told her about the facebook comment and how physco you have become over the last few months. He probably told them he was going away for the week to get away from you and to think about things. Oh his friend is coming to Orlando so he might stop by and say hi. See how innocent he sounds. He is working them as well as you. He will have a story for everything and moms and dads are going to believe their kids.
> 
> I wouldn't tell son about lying. He is a kid. It will blurt out like lightening. Mom said. She lied to you when she n,oops! Then you will have to have a story for that. I don't think I lied to you cause the P.I. wanted agood start will fly to well.
> 
> If your arranged time is 8 and you forget to have the kids call,why doesn't hubby call them? Is his fingers broken or did they leave him along with his brain? Your son is a little young for a cell phone and it sounds to me that he put that in there to say hey lady,you won't keep my son from talking to me. And as far as saying hey I forgot to tell ya my mom has the kids.... like your lifes mission is to sit around. And wait for the clock to strike 8? The answer to that is. I am sorry I forgot to tell you, if the kids do not call at. Our arranged time, feel free to call them. I am very busy these days but I will not encourage the kids to not call you, you are their father and you deserve to communicate with them and I will not stand in the way of that. It implies, I am not keeping the kids from you or encouraging them not to call you. I am trying to be fair.the kids come first. Just don't let him use this to get you to agree to things for the sake of the kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree about phone call. If daily communication is so important to him he shouldn't have left. Or he can call. Personally when I split from H, I found daily phone calls to him or from him intrusive. If kids have something exciting to say, they will ask to call. Kind of one of the drawbacks for ditching your family in my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24

I agree with golfergirl about the call. But if he insinuates that you are keeping the kids from talking to him ,I would make the point that the phone works both ways. I believe he has consequences too,but the kids not allowed to sopeak with them is not one of those(not that you kept them from calling),but if he thinks that.....it also gives him time to process that she is not going to play games when the children are involved and she welcomes him to participate in their lives. He can't say she didn't tell him. I. Am sure she knows his number that if she sees he is calling she can ask son to answer the phone so she stays dark..

It might help break a chip off the fog if she is pleasant so he isn't jumping at a chance to accuse her to justify his leaving. If she gives him no ammo, he can shoot an empty gun. Just no butt kissing to him. Stay firm on your wants and needs and only engage when necessary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

tamara24 said:


> I agree with golfergirl about the call. But if he insinuates that you are keeping the kids from talking to him ,I would make the point that the phone works both ways. I believe he has consequences too,but the kids not allowed to sopeak with them is not one of those(not that you kept them from calling),but if he thinks that.....it also gives him time to process that she is not going to play games when the children are involved and she welcomes him to participate in their lives. He can't say she didn't tell him. I. Am sure she knows his number that if she sees he is calling she can ask son to answer the phone so she stays dark..
> 
> It might help break a chip off the fog if she is pleasant so he isn't jumping at a chance to accuse her to justify his leaving. If she gives him no ammo, he can shoot an empty gun. Just no butt kissing to him. Stay firm on your wants and needs and only engage when necessary.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. I would never deny or distract a phone call. But to be obligated to call at 8 every night would be annoying. If kids want to - by all means but kids will see it for what it is - a poor substitute for having dad around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

So I guess that was a bad choice to say that whoever has the kids initiates the phone call as close to 8 as possible? I guess I didn't anticipate him not wanting to call his dad. He responded to my mom's response pretty nasty. SHe just said that the phone works both ways and son didn't want to call. He wrote back and said that he didn't know what kind of game we were playing but he wasn't going to play it. And that we could have texted him at 8 and told him the kids didn't want to talk. Come to think of it though, H has worked nights for most of my son's life. He didn't hear from him every night to say goodnight. I will use your response, tamara. I guess I will email that to him tomorrow. 

I'm going out tonight. I tried to call him at 7, and he didn't answer. I left a voicemail saying, "Just letting you know that I won't be around tonight so the kids will be with mom. Her number is ----. So, that's where we are at." Wonder if he'll call. Especially after being rude in his last reply. 

Thanks gals for the advice. I won't bother with his mom. She isn't worth it and he probably has some story. As for the lie, I regret it, but the PI wanted to see if he'd say where he was. Because they hadn't seen him. I just told my son if he asks about it to tell him to talk to mom. I gave him the phrase, "I don't want to be in the middle" to use with both of us. I hope he does. But I really don't think H will call tonight. 

I am not going to be here to edit my mom's reply to him. I really hope she keeps it cool. My mom is feisty and he crossed the wrong person. She's going to write, "P.S. - You should have worn sunscreen today. Look at your sunburn you knitwit." LOL. I told her not to, but who knows what she'll do.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> So I guess that was a bad choice to say that whoever has the kids initiates the phone call as close to 8 as possible? I guess I didn't anticipate him not wanting to call his dad. He responded to my mom's response pretty nasty. SHe just said that the phone works both ways and son didn't want to call. He wrote back and said that he didn't know what kind of game we were playing but he wasn't going to play it. And that we could have texted him at 8 and told him the kids didn't want to talk. Come to think of it though, H has worked nights for most of my son's life. He didn't hear from him every night to say goodnight. I will use your response, tamara. I guess I will email that to him tomorrow.
> 
> I'm going out tonight. I tried to call him at 7, and he didn't answer. I left a voicemail saying, "Just letting you know that I won't be around tonight so the kids will be with mom. Her number is ----. So, that's where we are at." Wonder if he'll call. Especially after being rude in his last reply.
> 
> Thanks gals for the advice. I won't bother with his mom. She isn't worth it and he probably has some story. As for the lie, I regret it, but the PI wanted to see if he'd say where he was. Because they hadn't seen him. I just told my son if he asks about it to tell him to talk to mom. I gave him the phrase, "I don't want to be in the middle" to use with both of us. I hope he does. But I really don't think H will call tonight.
> 
> I am not going to be here to edit my mom's reply to him. I really hope she keeps it cool. My mom is feisty and he crossed the wrong person. She's going to write, "P.S. - You should have worn sunscreen today. Look at your sunburn you knitwit." LOL. I told her not to, but who knows what she'll do.


I wouldn't say bad idea I'd just leave ball in their court. He has kids - you want to talk, you call. You have kids, they want to talk, you let them and hope he affords you same courtesy. What will you say when he questions you about breakdown?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

golfergirl said:


> I wouldn't say bad idea I'd just leave ball in their court. He has kids - you want to talk, you call. You have kids, they want to talk, you let them and hope he affords you same courtesy. What will you say when he questions you about breakdown?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here's how you say it. 
I'm soon to no longer be your wife. With the heartache that comes with that is also an enormous freedom. I am not responsible for you. That in turn makes you responsible for maintaining your relationship with kids. You want to talk to them, call. If they want to talk to you, they'll call. See then you don't have to track him down - leave numbers or instructions for babysitter. You don't have to interrupt monopoly or a movie or ice cream to get that damn phone call in. Not your call anymore - that could be a wife's job.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> I wouldn't say bad idea I'd just leave ball in their court. He has kids - you want to talk, you call. You have kids, they want to talk, you let them and hope he affords you same courtesy. What will you say when he questions you about breakdown?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess this is sort of opposite of what we were doing. See, I was trying to afford him a schedule of talking to them daily, not anticipating that they wouldn't WANT to talk to him. I guess he scorched more than the Earth here.  

He won't question me about the breakdown. I had an oh crap moment, but just came clean to my son and said that I lied. I told him it was wrong, and if Daddy asked him about it to just tell him to talk to me about it. I went out last night (and had a damn good time I might add, with my stepsisters and a guy from high school). So I called him at 7 (didn't answer) and left a voicemail saying I was going out and my mom would have the kids so he could call her phone. He did call, but my mom wasn't in the room, she was cleaning up a potty accident. My son said he asked where he was, but didn't say much else. Tonight we drove back home and son told him we had driven over to my mom's for the day. He was questioning him and seemed confused. Maybe because I texted his mom today and asked if they'd like me to bring the kids by. She said they weren't going to be around but to send them her love.  He probably heard about that and then thinks I'm playing another game. See, he made a mistake yesterday. He crossed my mother, who has stayed uninvolved. He knows better. He accused her of playing games because she sent him a message saying she didn't hear from him and the phone works both ways. 



golfergirl said:


> Here's how you say it.
> I'm soon to no longer be your wife. With the heartache that comes with that is also an enormous freedom. I am not responsible for you. That in turn makes you responsible for maintaining your relationship with kids. You want to talk to them, call. If they want to talk to you, they'll call. See then you don't have to track him down - leave numbers or instructions for babysitter. You don't have to interrupt monopoly or a movie or ice cream to get that damn phone call in. Not your call anymore - that could be a wife's job.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm going to have to put the ball in his court in this way. I didn't anticipate that it would be this inconvenient and uncomfortable. I get all anxious around 8 each night, and we are busy. And the thing is, we agreed upon 8, but then I wanted to talk to them before that one night because I missed them and he got all mad about that saying we agreed upon 8. And I didn't take that to mean ONLY 8. If I miss my kids and want to talk to them, I'll call whenever the heck I want to.


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## LonelyNLost

Oh goodness, my mom's message back to him was not so nice. That's what he gets for involving her, but I wish she would have run it by me first. 

_My grandchildren's well being in NOT A GAME!

I reached out to you with the truth about your son not wanting to call and your reason for not calling him is "not what was agreed upon"?
Thats about the sorriest excuse I have heard for not calling your child. Do you think a child cares about agreements? No, they want to be shown love and feel they are wanted.

This is not the first time I and others have witnessed him not wanting to call. I am concerned and thought you as his father should know and make an effort to reach out to him. I am sure there were many times you wondered why your Mom never called you, think about it.

I will continue to pray for all concerned, HIS love never fails..._

Ouch. See, his real mom left when he was 6 months old, cheated on his dad, and then his dad got custody. She pretty much abandoned him throughout his childhood and now as an adult. He's not going to be happy about that comment, or well, any of it. And then I get to deal with his rage. Darnit. 

You guys would be proud of me for not texting or calling him last night when I was really mad and wanted to. Son and I had a heart to heart, and I let him know that daddy was making some bad choices as a grown up, but it doesn't mean he doesn't love his kids. I told him that daddy is going through some things right now and one day he'll realize how he mishandled things. I told him I was sorry that he had never sat down with you and told you what was going on or explained himself. We talked about counseling and how I thought he was feeling. I told him about my experience as a child of divorce, and how it always meant a lot to know my mom was there for me. I told him how I got angry sometimes, scared, confused. And that it's okay to feel that way. I just reassured him of my love over and over again and told him we'd be okay. He was really upset. He sort of put pieces together and figured out things I think. He asked where daddy was and asked if he'd taken all his things from the house. (Which in itself is wrong of H to do. Take all your stuff and move it out before talking to your kid? He has yet to have ONE conversation with our children.) 

I can't ever forgive him for what he's done to the kids. Hurt me, fine. It sucks but I'll get over it. But my kids are an extension of me to the fullest, and I can't handle what he's doing to them. My son is crying, I'm crying, my daughter starts crying. It's too much to bear. All the while, he's off playing house in fantasyland. I wanted to send him the nastiest text telling him that I hope he's having fun off in fantasy world while I pick up the pieces as our lives fall apart and the kids are crushed.


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## Jellybeans

Eh. Please tell your mom not to message him. It's going to make things 10x worst.

I am VERY happy and proud of you that you did not call him when you were mad. GOOD. Keep it up. Hope you ahd a nice Easter.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Eh. Please tell your mom not to message him. It's going to make things 10x worst.
> 
> I am VERY happy and proud of you that you did not call him when you were mad. GOOD. Keep it up. Hope you ahd a nice Easter.


I know. Unfortunately she sent it this morning before I had a chance to intervene. She talked about it yesterday and said she was going to go nicey nice, but I guess she couldn't do that. He is already in defense mode and thinks we are all playing games. I am so fed up with it all. I just want to fast forward past all this and be with my kids in my house and happy without him. 

I did have a good Easter. I'm feeling the "me" inside. I can do this. I'm just really feeling for the kids. And I'm really torn on whether to stay here or move 3 hours away to be with my family. I had so much fun with them all this weekend. Even went out to a classy little place and drank sangria with my stepsisters and a guy from high school. Felt good.


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## Jellybeans

Talk to Momma Lonely (lol) and tell her that you really appreciate her support but because things are so acrimonious between you and hub, you do not want her contacting him directly, that you will do it yourself.


And yes, you CAN do this and you WILL do this 

Oh, FYI, I LOOOVE sangria. I just got some yesterday!


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Talk to Momma Lonely (lol) and tell her that you really appreciate her support but because things are so acrimonious between you and hub, you do not want her contacting him directly, that you will do it yourself.
> 
> 
> And yes, you CAN do this and you WILL do this
> 
> Oh, FYI, I LOOOVE sangria. I just got some yesterday!



Yeah, funny thing is, he should KNOW better than to mess with my mom, but obviously he's lost his mind. 

Sangria is my new favorite. I'm not a big drinker, but this was delish. It was Ed Hardy sangria, and it was so yummy! I think it's pretty cheap too, gotta get some for home so that I can relax each night before bed.


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## Jellybeans

OMG I saw the Ed Hardy sangria at Total Wine and thought, WTH Ed Hardy has a sangria??? The salesperson told me they also have another drink. Hilarious!


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> OMG I saw the Ed Hardy sangria at Total Wine and thought, WTH Ed Hardy has a sangria??? The salesperson told me they also have another drink. Hilarious!


Haha, yeah, we ordered it and they brought it over and I was like, "Ed Hardy?" But it is good!


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## tamara24

Sangria is my all time favorite. I think we need to plan a night out girls!

Although your mom should not have direct conversations with hubby she did a few things that have merit. First, she let him know there are no games going on with the kids.two, she let him know that she knows how tough his childhood was and would not do that with her grandchild. Three,she made it clear that she has drawn a line and he is not going to walk over her. She should have checked with you, but she is the kids grandma and there may be occasions. Where she will have to talk to him and he should do it with respect. Insinuating she is playing games and not expecting a comment back,is plain stupid.

I think a fresh start for you is to move near your family. They love you and can help you with the kids. Obviously more than hubby. They need stability. And you need to have family close to you right now.three hours is not that far away and he already told you that he needs to give up every other Thursday.

Don't do any major moves while you are still on the emotional rollercoaster. Wait until the ride is done,then make decisions.glad you had a great weekend!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Sangria is my all time favorite. I think we need to plan a night out girls!
> 
> Although your mom should not have direct conversations with hubby she did a few things that have merit. First, she let him know there are no games going on with the kids.two, she let him know that she knows how tough his childhood was and would not do that with her grandchild. Three,she made it clear that she has drawn a line and he is not going to walk over her. She should have checked with you, but she is the kids grandma and there may be occasions. Where she will have to talk to him and he should do it with respect. Insinuating she is playing games and not expecting a comment back,is plain stupid.
> 
> I think a fresh start for you is to move near your family. They love you and can help you with the kids. Obviously more than hubby. They need stability. And you need to have family close to you right now.three hours is not that far away and he already told you that he needs to give up every other Thursday.
> 
> Don't do any major moves while you are still on the emotional rollercoaster. Wait until the ride is done,then make decisions.glad you had a great weekend!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, tamara. Yes a girls night would be a blast! Cheers!

You made me feel a little better about the email she sent. His was downright rude. I'm sure he's responded but who knows. I don't think she'll go back and forth, since we're both under the impression that he's being fed by this drama. 

I'm really not sure if I want to uproot the kids. I have a great job in a great district and I'd lose my seniority if I moved. I have also built a great rapport. My closest friends are here and they are a great support. Plus I have my house. If I move, I will probably not have the credit or money to own a home. I'd have to rent. And I feel like my kids will lose all sense of normalcy and the life they knew. But then again, if they have to go through this big change now, should I do it all at the same time? Rather than get through the divorce and then shake things up again? So much to think about now. I will be pushing for a clause saying it's okay for me to move in the divorce decree. 

He didn't give up every other Thursday, just this Thursday since she's in town. He would be majorly inconvenienced if we moved. He told a mutual friend he'd move, too, but I don't see it. He's going to move where my family (it's a big one) and friends live and where I grew up? His mommy and daddy and grandparents are here. That would be interesting, that's for sure. He proclaims to love the kids and that they are most important, but his actions already speak otherwise. I'm telling you, if that skank moves here, I am packing my backs and GOing.


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## tamara24

That is why you wait until the emotional side of things have calmed down. He still has not filed. I doubt he will uproot his life to move close to you. He isn't demanding that you leave the house or sell it immediatley so you have time to think things through. I would personally wait to see how his visits go. If he starts blowing them off then I would make the decision based on MY needs. You should now come first,but if he visits with the kids,and stays within the agreement,then I would consider staying if I felt my livleyhood was better there.

I don't think the skank will move here. Everything is the honeymoon phase for them but your kids were not there and uprooting your life for a man 2500 miles without some thought would be a stupid. She also has a kid and would have to deal with his father as well!

Take your time, and don't engage hubby if he yells at you about your mom. Just say, I am sorry I forgot to tell you that the kids were with my mom, that was my fault. However, your comments to my mom were rude too. And what happens between the two of you does not involve me. You are adults, deal with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

tamara24 said:


> Sangria is my all time favorite. I think we need to plan a night out girls!


Who will bring the cheese and crackers?


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## tamara24

I got the pool,and a cabinet full of crackers(I have kids). I also have three bottles of unopened sangria.....I am an hour and half away from Lonely though
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

I'm on the east coast so Idk how far that is from you guys but we can have a virtual sip right now. ::Cheers!::


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## Niceguy13

Wish I could drink unfortunatley I have an alcohol problem (Binge funcioning Alcoholic) and right now is not the time to test my will power. Had a fresh bottle of captain that I had to dump *tears* Come to think of it that explains this last weekend for me. Should of been time for me to have a few drinks. (I no longer binge but I usualy do have a six pack or a couple drinks one my binge weekend)

I like what your mom said but in your case it looks like he is looking for ammo and she just handed him a big old case of it. And not 9mm rounds but 80mm mortar shells. From eerything I have heard about your story you just need to drop all contact with him and lawyer up nice and tight. The guy obviously has no wish to be civil he is just trying to f you one last time and like he never has before.


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## anx

> Oh goodness, my mom's message back to him was not so nice. That's what he gets for involving her, but I wish she would have run it by me first.
> ...
> I pick up the pieces as our lives fall apart and the kids are crushed.


This post was hard to read as a man. Its really sad that he is repeating the sins of his father/parents. I applaud your mom for sending it. The truth is often searingly painful. You can't hide from it.

Despite your husband being a terrible person, its hard to not feel sorry for him at the same time. My heart also fully goes out to you and the pain he has put you through. 



> She pretty much abandoned him throughout his childhood and now as an adult.


 He probably hasn't realized that he is repeating this. When it hits him, it'll hit hard. 

Try to get past some of this. You've been rightfully very mad and hurt by the situation. I picked up the book total forgiveness for my wife, and I suggest you read it too. Try to work towards forgiveness. Again, most of what forgiveness is is giving up your will to harm someone back. It sounds like you have mostly done that, and thats really good to hear. The book had a good discussion on what forgiveness does and does not mean. 

As always, best of luck. Your mother sounds like a great support.


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## Jellybeans

Niceguy13 said:


> From eerything I have heard about your story you just need to drop all contact with him and lawyer up nice and tight. The guy obviously has no wish to be civil he is just trying to f you one last time and like he never has before.


ITA. It's nice to have some dudes posting in here cause so far it's been mostly chicks, man. LOL.

Anyway I agree w/ Nice that Mr. Lonely is biding his time and it's NOT to your benefit. Whatever he is stalling for is in HIS favor, not yours.

That's why I would cut it off real quick, get a lawyer, and serve him w/ D papers. I know you dont want to do that but reading story after story I have seen it so many times...the wayward waits and waits and waits til it's a good time for THEM and then they go ahead full force.

My bet is that paying out child support and temporary support while waiting for the divorce does NOT sound good to him right now so that is why he has made no move to actuallY DO anything. The affair won't be so fun when he has no $ to spend.


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> ITA. It's nice to have some dudes posting in here cause so far it's been mostly chicks, man. LOL.
> 
> Anyway I agree w/ Nice that Mr. Lonely is biding his time and it's NOT to your benefit. Whatever he is stalling for is in HIS favor, not yours.
> 
> That's why I would cut it off real quick, get a lawyer, and serve him w/ D papers. I know you dont want to do that but reading story after story I have seen it so many times...the wayward waits and waits and waits til it's a good time for THEM and then they go ahead full force.
> 
> My bet is that paying out child support and temporary support while waiting for the divorce does NOT sound good to him right now so that is why he has made no move to actuallY DO anything. The affair won't be so fun when he has no $ to spend.


Something like quitting job - no income...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Talk me away from the ledge. I'm really worked up and about to tear into him. And her. He is dipping on the kids for tomorrow. So he's staying in Orlando all week. I called him and told him how disappointed I was and told him I had plans. He said he'll send his mom to watch them. Hmmm, I've got ideas! But no ideas on how to get the PI on his trail. I have nothing to lose. Why shouldn't I call her and ask, "Can I speak to my husband please?"


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## Jellybeans

Step away from the ledge. Do not call her at all. U really need to get a written custody agreement because he is gonna keep doing this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Step away from the ledge. Do not call her at all. U really need to get a written custody agreement because he is gonna keep doing this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I want to break up their little fun. I want to pester them and interrupt their time together. Why not? I have nothing to lose. I can just text her, "It's sad that some girls' self worth is so low that they accept being someone's dirty little secret when they get involved with a married man." "well, he's no prize. if he did if with you, he will inevitably do it to you.
you aren't special. you walk around like you won the prize because you managed to destroy a family. sorry little miss nasty, you're a loser and he's no prize."

And I can text him,"Oh, I'm sorry, was I interrupting you acting like you were single and free of responsibilities and family? Well carry on without us!" If he answers his phone I'd say, "i know she's here and that is the reason u dont want to see ur kids and ur kids know that!" 

Okay, I know, not the high road. I'm in a mood. Wish I had some sangria.

ETA: We have the emailed agreement. Only formal agreement would be one of those packets he printed out and I'm not doing all that yet. But I am keeping track of all this.


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## Niceguy13

LnL you do have something to lose.Something that is far more valuable then him and your sanity your children. For all you know right now he is detailing and recording every little thing you do. You are hadning him a case on a silver platter. STOP. Take a breath. You have realized you have nothing to lose thats good. Now start worrying about you and your childrens future. Quit worrying how he will do. Quit worrying about how much fun he is having. Karma is a *****, god punishes the wicked however you want to call it he will get his. The best way you can help give it to him is desist all contact. Get a lawyer, draft up custody papers and serve him with them.

Record and document broken promises to the children such as it being his weekend to spend time with them and he is going to leave them with his mother while he does his thing. QUIT playing into his hand. You are still living his rules you are still playing his game. I know we all slip I slipped this Sunday but you are slipping everyday girl. Detach your love from him when dealing with him. Put it in a box lock it up tight then go through into the next 'cane that blows through. Tell him if he wants your love back he can go fing find it. The way you are doing things now he is going to end up with everything.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I want to break up their little fun. I want to pester them and interrupt their time together. Why not? I have nothing to lose. I can just text her, "It's sad that some girls' self worth is so low that they accept being someone's dirty little secret when they get involved with a married man." "well, he's no prize. if he did if with you, he will inevitably do it to you.
> you aren't special. you walk around like you won the prize because you managed to destroy a family. sorry little miss nasty, you're a loser and he's no prize."
> 
> And I can text him,"Oh, I'm sorry, was I interrupting you acting like you were single and free of responsibilities and family? Well carry on without us!" If he answers his phone I'd say, "i know she's here and that is the reason u dont want to see ur kids and ur kids know that!"
> 
> Okay, I know, not the high road. I'm in a mood. Wish I had some sangria.
> 
> ETA: We have the emailed agreement. Only formal agreement would be one of those packets he printed out and I'm not doing all that yet. But I am keeping track of all this.


When you get in a mood I want to turn away from the 'carnage' that is about to unfold in front of me. Step back and look at things. Best revenge is living well. Just leave him alone. Enjoy extra time with kids and just say f it. No joke Neil is right. Get wrong judge and he'll get you for custody - you're not looking stable right now. It's not about shaking him up to give marriage a shot, it's all about revenge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyGriffinFan

Wow, I am not feeling well and had the time to read through this entire thing. 

I'm gonna say some words to Lonely, because I just lack the patience that the rest of you have...Lonely, KNOCK IT OFF!!! Act your age and get out of this pattern of unhealthy behavior. 

This repetitive nature of yours is getting ridiculous. Over and over you have been told to not email, no contact, be polite, be civil, start to let go and each time you answer with_ yes I understand but he's making me *fill in the blank*.

You're a smart woman who is doing some desperate things that are just bordering on stupid now. 

You know he's been unfaithful, why torture yourself?
As someone else said, you can't rationalize the irrational?

Why must we justify our spouse's behavior? Well, he feels he's not good enough so that contributed to his EA and yada, yada, yada. 

I know he still loves me, he's just in a fog. No, he's just not into you because if he was, he'd be with you.

He's sacrificing his time with his children to be with this disgusting chick. Do you really need to see that to know that it is happening?

Who cares what his family thinks or what anyone else thinks? You're the one who has had to put up with this ******* for the past few years, you do not anything from them. Who cares?

Stop with the facebook bolgona already!

You say your husband has some weird fixation on high school....it honestly doesn't sound like you're rising above it much yourself. You're lowering yourself to high school tactic (facebook spying).

Embrace the pain. It hurts, I know it...but by doing that, you're inching your way towards recovery. It is okay to be heartbroken and mad and upset. Have you ever seen Diary of a Mad Black Woman? Watch it, live vicariously through it and then put it away. Move on every single day. Move closer to that woman that you want to be and maybe along the way, you'll find someone that will treat you the way you deserve to be treated.

Stop this spying and PI nonsense. It is a complete and utter waste of your resources. Your children need you now more than ever. Perhaps kick up your IC visits to a few times a week. 

This is not going to be the answer Lonely, it just won't. You're just feeding your obsession. Stop it already. Let him go. It hurts like high hell, we all get that but nothing good will come of your actions.
You seem to fall deeper and deeper as this thread goes on.

You justified his behavior, you apologized to him repeatedly, you fell back into the same pit over and over again and engaged in these silly text message wars.

Walk to the mirror and look at yourself and ask yourself if you want to keep living like this. Have the kids go over to your folks and when you're by yourself, cry like you have never cried before. Mourn your relationship, embrace the pain, understand that you will never have all the answers but that is okay, because what you do have, you don't want to be apart of.

Walk away Lonely. The only revenge is living a good life, and while he's off being broke and paying child support and struggling to see this chick from vegas once in a while, you'll be in a better place.
Their relationship won't last forever, plain and simple. With every day that goes by, they are closer and closer to ending their relationship and you are closer to meeting that someone special that will truly love you. Also, remember that you don't need a man, it is okay to be alone for a bit and work on yourself. Your hubby sounds like a weak man that runs from relationship to relationship to satisfy some insatiable need. He will never get enough but that is his problem, not yours.

Walk away Lonely.

C'mon Lonely, you're better than this. Place yourself in your kids shoes. Would they want their mom devoting all of her time and energy to this? I have a hard time believing that this is not draining you all of your energy. Including energy that should be going to the kids.

Good luck Lonely. Now knock it off and stop justifying your poor decisions with outcomes that will never come to fruition._


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> That is why you wait until the emotional side of things have calmed down. He still has not filed. I doubt he will uproot his life to move close to you.
> 
> I don't think the skank will move here. Everything is the honeymoon phase for them but your kids were not there and uprooting your life for a man 2500 miles without some thought would be a stupid. She also has a kid and would have to deal with his father as well!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right, and this is what I'll do. Just wait for things to calm down. I am in too much of an irritated state to make any long term decisions. I think I might end up filing. I don't know what his plans are with the fugly duckling. I mean, what kind of woman takes her kid on a rendezvous with a married man? Goodness. Not someone I wish to have as stepmother of my children. And he didn't bring up my mom or respond to her. We got into it a little on the phone last night, not yelling or anything, I just forcefully stated that I was disappointed that his priorities weren't straight. I laugh when I hang up because I think about his ridiculous justifications and straw grasping. 



Niceguy13 said:


> I like what your mom said but in your case it looks like he is looking for ammo and she just handed him a big old case of it. And not 9mm rounds but 80mm mortar shells. From eerything I have heard about your story you just need to drop all contact with him and lawyer up nice and tight. The guy obviously has no wish to be civil he is just trying to f you one last time and like he never has before.


Not sure how she gave him ammo. He looks like the @ss in this case. That's why he didn't respond. I am following up my phone call with a nice email detailing how he's abandoned his commitments to the kids this week. And I'm withdrawing my agreement to have the kids call him every night. He needs to call. He's got nothing on me. I haven't done anything. I posted those things here to vent, I didn't actually call or text them. I just had a nice conversation where I made it clear that he did not arrange to drop out on them on Tuesday and his priorities are clear.



anx said:


> This post was hard to read as a man. Its really sad that he is repeating the sins of his father/parents. I applaud your mom for sending it. The truth is often searingly painful. You can't hide from it.
> 
> Despite your husband being a terrible person, its hard to not feel sorry for him at the same time. My heart also fully goes out to you and the pain he has put you through.
> 
> He probably hasn't realized that he is repeating this. When it hits him, it'll hit hard.
> 
> Try to get past some of this. You've been rightfully very mad and hurt by the situation. I picked up the book total forgiveness for my wife, and I suggest you read it too. Try to work towards forgiveness. Again, most of what forgiveness is is giving up your will to harm someone back. It sounds like you have mostly done that, and thats really good to hear. The book had a good discussion on what forgiveness does and does not mean.
> 
> As always, best of luck. Your mother sounds like a great support.


Yes she is. And thank you for your empathy. I really don't think he'll abandon the kids. I think when the OW is in town, he'll dip on his commitments. Obviously it's enough to only see them sporadically, and his email saying otherwise were fake. He claims he only cares about the kids and they are his number one priority. Well, that's not what it looks like. 

I do forgive, as Christians should. But I'm not ready right now. I'm just at a stage right now where I feel out to get him, and it's hard to control. Most of it is that yes, he's hurt me, but he's hurting my children and they are an extension of me. He's blatantly carrying around with her and lying to anyone who figures this out. His parents know the truth, and they are protecting him. I will pick up the book. Right now I need to read "The Praying Wife". I am praying for answers right now on what to do. I'm done with him, but for right now I am unsure about a lot of things that go along with that.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Anyway I agree w/ Nice that Mr. Lonely is biding his time and it's NOT to your benefit. Whatever he is stalling for is in HIS favor, not yours.
> 
> That's why I would cut it off real quick, get a lawyer, and serve him w/ D papers. I know you dont want to do that but reading story after story I have seen it so many times...the wayward waits and waits and waits til it's a good time for THEM and then they go ahead full force.
> 
> My bet is that paying out child support and temporary support while waiting for the divorce does NOT sound good to him right now so that is why he has made no move to actuallY DO anything. The affair won't be so fun when he has no $ to spend.


That's the weird part. All of his check is going into our joint account. Mine is not, but he doesn't know that yet. I have my own account I'm using and I'm forwarding HIS bills to his parent's house. Including the delinquent credit card letter, lol. So, he's giving me almost all of his money right now. I'm ready to just fully cut the cord, though. He will be better off, though he says he won't. For now, I mean. If he ever wants to afford an apartment or anything it will be difficult. And SHE is paying for the affair, which I find hilarious. Either that or his mom is funding it. 



Niceguy13 said:


> LnL you do have something to lose.Something that is far more valuable then him and your sanity your children. For all you know right now he is detailing and recording every little thing you do. You are hadning him a case on a silver platter. STOP. Take a breath. You have realized you have nothing to lose thats good. Now start worrying about you and your childrens future. Quit worrying how he will do. Quit worrying about how much fun he is having. Karma is a *****, god punishes the wicked however you want to call it he will get his. The best way you can help give it to him is desist all contact. Get a lawyer, draft up custody papers and serve him with them.
> 
> Record and document broken promises to the children such as it being his weekend to spend time with them and he is going to leave them with his mother while he does his thing. QUIT playing into his hand. You are still living his rules you are still playing his game. I know we all slip I slipped this Sunday but you are slipping everyday girl. Detach your love from him when dealing with him. Put it in a box lock it up tight then go through into the next 'cane that blows through. Tell him if he wants your love back he can go fing find it. The way you are doing things now he is going to end up with everything.


Yes, I consulted a great lawyer a few weeks ago when he started his shenanigans. I have a calendar that I record everything on. OW doesn't live here, so this whole inconveniencing the schedule thing won't happen often. I am done with him. I feel disgusted by him. I feel blindsided that I thought I knew him and this is his true character to treat me this way. I am doing everything by email and keeping them for my records. I'm playing it well, my friend, trying to foster a loving relationship between my kids and their father. 

I don't know how I'm doing anything to lose the kids. I didn't actually send any of the stuff I wrote. I just called him and got on him about not arranging with me ahead of time to dip out, and I told him how disappointed I was that his priorities weren't straight. I pointed out how his actions were not consistent with his words. And made him sweat. For the most part, we are no contact. We email all nicey nice regarding the kids. No texts have been exchanged except for regarding the kids. Last night's phone call and last week's in person discussion are all that have taken place. Yes, I got some digs in, but he's got nothing but a facebook post of mine saying, "Spineless". Which means what? 

I post here about what I WANT to do in a way to vent and not do it. I appreciate all of your support and your concern for me and my children's well being. I am headed in the right direction.



golfergirl said:


> When you get in a mood I want to turn away from the 'carnage' that is about to unfold in front of me. Step back and look at things. Best revenge is living well. Just leave him alone. Enjoy extra time with kids and just say f it. No joke Neil is right. Get wrong judge and he'll get you for custody - you're not looking stable right now. It's not about shaking him up to give marriage a shot, it's all about revenge.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am getting better. I didn't unleash the carnage. I got in a mood and resisted. I called a friend instead. I'm not sure why you think I'm looking unstable. Just because I post some vents on a message board? I haven't done anything for revenge. I know it's not my job to make sure he gets his just desserts, but I would like to eventually have him face up to his mistakes. I can't make him do anything, but I know the person he was deep down. And this is so not him. He's really got nothing on me.


----------



## Jellybeans

Great post, Kathy. 



LonelyNLost said:


> I'm ready to just fully cut the cord, though.


Then cut it and be done. 

Thing is, a year from now, you are going to look back and be really embarassed by things you asid to him and did. Trust me. It's not worth losing your dignity over some loser a*hole who doesen't know what a committment means, who runs off w/ the first piece of a** who strokes his ego, who abandons his wife and his children, who has been unfaithful BEFORE already!!!! This isn't his first time cheating on you! 

LET GO. 

In your position, I would file for a divorce immediately and request temporary child support and alimony right away, file for custody. Bust up his little fantasy. Make him uncomfortable. He already said he is done, wants a divorce, and is w/ someone new now. Don't enable him by making it comfortale for him by just going w/ what he wants. Ruffle his feathers. 

About her: She has no problems carrying on with a married man who leaves his wife and children. Coming out of a divorce herself, you'd think she's respect marriages a little more> But she doesn't. That tells you everything you need to know about her. They will be their own demise. They will not be able to trust eachother. And the best part us...he is a serial cheater. He will do it to her, I'm 90% sure of this.


----------



## turnera

anx said:


> This post was hard to read as a man. Its really sad that he is repeating the sins of his father/parents. I applaud your mom for sending it. The truth is often searingly painful. You can't hide from it.


Me, too. IMO, it's one of the only things that has the potential to put him on the right path...some day. He NEEDS to hear that stuff if he's ever to learn or change.


----------



## turnera

golfergirl said:


> When It's not about shaking him up to give marriage a shot, it's all about revenge.


Which is what I keep bringing up, only to get yelled at. And, now that we've gotten a little more detail on your mom, it's not surprising that you have this urge - you got it from your mom!

Not saying that it's a bad thing - I _prefer_ strong women.

But I prefer _more_, women who WANT to get the upper hand, but then let their intelligence and self-worth shine through, and talk them into doing something _smart_. Think ahead five steps and do what it takes to get the ultimate upper hand. Not the step that lets you wring your hands in glee for _today_, because guess what? No matter what you would say to either of them today...they would still end up spending the day together - laughing at you, and you'd still be at home alone. 

And having to dig yourself out of the rubble you created in terms of custody and money, because his lawyer can make you look unstable.

The better choice would be to spend the day getting your ducks in a row so that, when he returns, you slam him with a divorce and take all his money; heck, maybe you could include in the papers that the JUDGE will read, how he abandoned his chldren TWICE in one week to have a fling, if your state allows it. Now, THAT is smart. And he won't be laughing any more. OR have the money to go visit her and look like a hot shot.


----------



## golfergirl

turnera said:


> Which is what I keep bringing up, only to get yelled at. And, now that we've gotten a little more detail on your mom, it's not surprising that you have this urge - you got it from your mom!
> 
> Not saying that it's a bad thing - I _prefer_ strong women.
> 
> But I prefer _more_, women who WANT to get the upper hand, but then let their intelligence and self-worth shine through, and talk them into doing something _smart_. Think ahead five steps and do what it takes to get the ultimate upper hand. Not the step that lets you wring your hands in glee for _today_, because guess what? No matter what you would say to either of them today...they would still end up spending the day together - laughing at you, and you'd still be at home alone.
> 
> And having to dig yourself out of the rubble you created in terms of custody and money, because his lawyer can make you look unstable.
> 
> The better choice would be to spend the day getting your ducks in a row so that, when he returns, you slam him with a divorce and take all his money; heck, maybe you could include in the papers that the JUDGE will read, how he abandoned his chldren TWICE in one week to have a fling, if your state allows it. Now, THAT is smart. And he won't be laughing any more. OR have the money to go visit her and look like a hot shot.


Exactly - you have upper hand right now! File before something switches. He can change his bank account in a heartbeat - then what? You're 2 steps behind. If you wait, he'll have 3 good weeks, file and say: 'I did make a mistake Easter, but learned error of ways, all is good now' and past will be forgotten. You have upper hand USE it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> He's blatantly carrying around with her and lying to anyone who figures this out.


Yep, just like every single other wayward man. With the same script and same actions as every other cheater. Just like we told you he would. He's an average, everyday cheater - I know, he's YOUR average, everyday cheater, and it hurts.

Maybe you can look at this like you would a disease you've just been told you have. You didn't ask for it, you don't deserve it, but you got it. 

Now what?

Pray to God for acceptance and forgiveness, and move on. Just like you would with a disease. Because you have no choice, and fighting it and staying angry and wanting to get even...changes nothing.

For your kids' sakes. They need a stable, loving, strong mother right now more than ever. Drop YOUR needs right now, for now, and do what's smart.


----------



## LonelyNLost

KathyGriffinFan said:


> This repetitive nature of yours is getting ridiculous. Over and over you have been told to not email, no contact, be polite, be civil, start to let go and each time you answer with_ yes I understand but he's making me *fill in the blank*. You're a smart woman who is doing some desperate things that are just bordering on stupid now.
> 
> This is not going to be the answer Lonely, it just won't. You're just feeding your obsession. Stop it already. Let him go. It hurts like high hell, we all get that but nothing good will come of your actions.
> You seem to fall deeper and deeper as this thread goes on.
> 
> Their relationship won't last forever, plain and simple. With every day that goes by, they are closer and closer to ending their relationship and you are closer to meeting that someone special that will truly love you. Also, remember that you don't need a man, it is okay to be alone for a bit and work on yourself. Your hubby sounds like a weak man that runs from relationship to relationship to satisfy some insatiable need. He will never get enough but that is his problem, not yours._


_

Geez, you make it sound like I'm some big moron for not knowing how to go through this the "right" way. Everyone has differences of opinions, and I respect that. But I've chosen to handle my path my way, because I'm really the only one living it. Have I been perfect? No. Do I have regrets? Yes. Did I learn anything? Yes. But right now I am in control of my actions and emotions. Acceptance is here. I'm not looking to gain anything at the current time. I come here to vent and journal my experience. I don't need someone to criticize something I said or did days or weeks or months ago. Because I can't change that now. I can only do today, now. I'm not falling deeper and deeper, I'm seeing the light. Maybe my learning curve is different from others because I believe marriage is forever and I believe in the love we shared.

I'm not stupid or making excuses for him any longer. He once was a great man, but he's fallen victim to infidelity. He got bitten by the bug, and well, it's fatal. However, I can't accept him back, ever. This is who he is now. If you look back at the beginning of this thread, I believed a lot of what he said. I believed him to be faithful. I was blind, and stupid. But if you read it all you can see how I was manipulated. I had my real life husband, whom I loved and cherished telling me all these things vs. internet strangers. I'm sorry if I followed my heart at times instead of listening to the advice. 

I'm numb right now. As much as it seems like I engage with him, I really have pulled back a ton. I don't have anything left to give. This has become an obsession, because, well, it's my LIFE. I'm angry for my kids. I have a right to speak my mind to him. Why the heck should I be all sweet to him? I'm not being a B!tch to him, I'm just being businesslike and speaking my mind. And standing up for my kids. I will not back down from that. 

Hiring a PI and looking at her facebook (in order to give info the the PI) is not high school. It's finding proof of an affair that's been rubbed in my face as not existing. For me, it's closure. Nothing says "I love you and always will" like running off with your first love for a family vacation with her kid for a week while abandoning your children's visitation times. He is the sack of sh!t and I'll come out of this just fine. My IC actually thinks I'm doing great and I tell her all. I even read her the texts I send. She bumped me down to biweekly and just told me to call in between if I need her.





Jellybeans said:



Thing is, a year from now, you are going to look back and be really embarassed by things you asid to him and did. Trust me. It's not worth losing your dignity over some loser a*hole who doesen't know what a committment means, who runs off w/ the first piece of a** who strokes his ego, who abandons his wife and his children, who has been unfaithful BEFORE already!!!! This isn't his first time cheating on you! 

In your position, I would file for a divorce immediately and request temporary child support and alimony right away, file for custody. Bust up his little fantasy. Make him uncomfortable. He already said he is done, wants a divorce, and is w/ someone new now. Don't enable him by making it comfortale for him by just going w/ what he wants. Ruffle his feathers. 

About her: She has no problems carrying on with a married man who leaves his wife and children. Coming out of a divorce herself, you'd think she's respect marriages a little more> But she doesn't. That tells you everything you need to know about her. They will be their own demise. They will not be able to trust eachother. And the best part us...he is a serial cheater. He will do it to her, I'm 90% sure of this.

Click to expand...

It's weird, I know I didn't do everything right, but I forgive myself. I understand why I did the things I did. The only things that embarrass me are the ones I did before he left that sacrificed my dignity and self-respect. I am pissed off for enabling him. But I feel good about the things I said to him last week and even my call to him last night. He's angry because his lies are catching up to him. He doesn't know how much longer he can keep up the charade.

I know their days are numbered. I even thought about contacting her and telling her I'm really sorry for her. And telling her that she isn't special because she pulled him away from his wife and kids. That he's done it before. And to be careful when he goes out riding his motorcycle because he sometimes gets in trouble that way, lol. I won't bother. She'll find out in time.

I am leaning towards filing, especially because he might give me more now while he's high on the fog. If I wait until he snaps out of it and is remorseful, then he might try to bargain more. I have to scrounge up some money, though. 

Did I tell you I changed my locks on my house last night all by myself? I also rolled the garage door opener code and reset the keyless entry.  Oh, and his mother had the nerve to engage with me by text this morning. Ugh. She is something else. I thought I knew her, too. Guess I was wrong about that!_


----------



## turnera

Good for you for changing your locks!

Here's one place where I would engage in conversation: reply to his mother and tell her "I know he's at DW with his affair partner and her son. You don't have to lie for him any more. I don't care. Thanks for helping keep his family together."


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> And, now that we've gotten a little more detail on your mom, it's not surprising that you have this urge - you got it from your mom!
> 
> But I prefer _more_, women who WANT to get the upper hand, but then let their intelligence and self-worth shine through, and talk them into doing something _smart_. Think ahead five steps and do what it takes to get the ultimate upper hand. Not the step that lets you wring your hands in glee for _today_, because guess what? No matter what you would say to either of them today...they would still end up spending the day together - laughing at you, and you'd still be at home alone.
> 
> And having to dig yourself out of the rubble you created in terms of custody and money, because his lawyer can make you look unstable.
> 
> The better choice would be to spend the day getting your ducks in a row so that, when he returns, you slam him with a divorce and take all his money; heck, maybe you could include in the papers that the JUDGE will read, how he abandoned his chldren TWICE in one week to have a fling, if your state allows it. Now, THAT is smart. And he won't be laughing any more. OR have the money to go visit her and look like a hot shot.


My mom is way stronger than I could ever be. Almost to a fault. My H knows this, so he has obviously lost his mind. He's said before he would never cross her. I really don't know how I've created rubble or done anything to look unstable. I do have my ducks in a row. I know exactly what I need to do. This is a no fault state, so I don't think they'd put anything in the paperwork about adultery or abandoning the kids. Only terms of asking for a dissolution of marriage are mental incapacity and irreconcilable differences. I bet he's getting all kind of crap from her about the money. Telling her to ditch me and leave me high and dry. That's coming soon I'm sure. Then he'll be able to fly out there and visit her. I'm sure his friend won't be able to bite his tongue any longer though if he showed up out there.



golfergirl said:


> Exactly - you have upper hand right now! File before something switches. He can change his bank account in a heartbeat - then what? You're 2 steps behind. If you wait, he'll have 3 good weeks, file and say: 'I did make a mistake Easter, but learned error of ways, all is good now' and past will be forgotten. You have upper hand USE it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But I think that's what he wants me to do so he can sit and tell the kids it was my fault. I just sense it. And my intuition has been right about everything else. OW is sitting and pushing him to divorce me so they can go on their marry way with a clear conscience. Why should I lay down and give him the satisfaction of having what he wants nice and easy, quick and done? I don't think what he did with not seeing the kids will mean much as far as filing. It might come into play with custody if he decides to fight that. I feel like I might have the upper hand, but I feel really shaky in all reality!



turnera said:


> Yep, just like every single other wayward man. With the same script and same actions as every other cheater. Just like we told you he would. He's an average, everyday cheater - I know, he's YOUR average, everyday cheater, and it hurts.
> 
> Maybe you can look at this like you would a disease you've just been told you have. You didn't ask for it, you don't deserve it, but you got it.
> 
> Now what?
> 
> Pray to God for acceptance and forgiveness, and move on. Just like you would with a disease. Because you have no choice, and fighting it and staying angry and wanting to get even...changes nothing.
> 
> For your kids' sakes. They need a stable, loving, strong mother right now more than ever. Drop YOUR needs right now, for now, and do what's smart.


That's exactly how I'm looking at it. I've arrived at acceptance. I don't want to get even, it isn't completely about that. It's more about releasing myself from the lies and letting him know I know the truth, and I see him for exactly what he is and he has done. And his kids eventually will, too. I also want to ensure the best position for myself and the kids in this divorce. I want to come out in a place where I can stand proudly on my own two feet, have a clear conscience, and be a role model for my kids. I've not neglected them at all during this, I've been there even more than before. I'm trying to compensate for the fact that their world is falling apart. Yes, my son has heard conversations I've had with others. He's feeling a lot of things, but I've been nothing but open and honest with him, and that's not something he can say about his father.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Good for you for changing your locks!
> 
> Here's one place where I would engage in conversation: reply to his mother and tell her "I know he's at DW with his affair partner and her son. You don't have to lie for him any more. I don't care. Thanks for helping keep his family together."


Haha, I've thought about it. But I was advised to not let him know that I know. The PI wants to catch him and if I scare him off, they can't. We're hoping they'll relax and do something stupid so we can catch them. But I will tell her that. And I will tell him to his face when he picks them up on Saturday. "Did you have a good time with your affair partner and her son? Hope you enjoyed Easter with them. Your kids sure did miss you and they were really disappointed that you didn't call."


----------



## Jellybeans

I don't think OW is pushing him to divorce. He hasn't filed yet. He is waiting for a good time, like when he can bette get his finances in order.

Where is he living now? Alone? With friends? How old is he?

He hasn't filed because he thinks paying YOU money doesn't wash with his fantasy. I am convinced that is why it is.

File and be done with him. He is a POS.

AGain, he isn't hiding the affair... it's out in public now.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I don't think OW is pushing him to divorce. He hasn't filed yet. He is waiting for a good time, like when he can bette get his finances in order.
> 
> Where is he living now? Alone? With friends? How old is he?
> 
> He hasn't filed because he thinks paying YOU money doesn't wash with his fantasy. I am convinced that is why it is.
> 
> File and be done with him. He is a POS.
> 
> AGain, he isn't hiding the affair... it's out in public now.


It's not truly. I think only his parents know, as well as her parents and friends. None of his friends know (except those I've told and they believe me). And he's blocked his aunts and uncles and mutual friends from his facebook wall. 

He is 34. Living with his parents about 20 miles from us. He has been giving me his whole check (in our account) and just spending money on groceries, gas, food. I guess it's different when he is handing me money. I don't know. I think I'll call the lawyer I consulted with and see what I need to start doing.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> My mom is way stronger than I could ever be. Almost to a fault. My H knows this, so he has obviously lost his mind. He's said before he would never cross her. I really don't know how I've created rubble or done anything to look unstable. I do have my ducks in a row. I know exactly what I need to do. This is a no fault state, so I don't think they'd put anything in the paperwork about adultery or abandoning the kids. Only terms of asking for a dissolution of marriage are mental incapacity and irreconcilable differences. I bet he's getting all kind of crap from her about the money. Telling her to ditch me and leave me high and dry. That's coming soon I'm sure. Then he'll be able to fly out there and visit her. I'm sure his friend won't be able to bite his tongue any longer though if he showed up out there.
> 
> 
> 
> But I think that's what he wants me to do so he can sit and tell the kids it was my fault. I just sense it. And my intuition has been right about everything else. OW is sitting and pushing him to divorce me so they can go on their marry way with a clear conscience. Why should I lay down and give him the satisfaction of having what he wants nice and easy, quick and done? I don't think what he did with not seeing the kids will mean much as far as filing. It might come into play with custody if he decides to fight that. I feel like I might have the upper hand, but I feel really shaky in all reality!
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly how I'm looking at it. I've arrived at acceptance. I don't want to get even, it isn't completely about that. It's more about releasing myself from the lies and letting him know I know the truth, and I see him for exactly what he is and he has done. And his kids eventually will, too. I also want to ensure the best position for myself and the kids in this divorce. I want to come out in a place where I can stand proudly on my own two feet, have a clear conscience, and be a role model for my kids. I've not neglected them at all during this, I've been there even more than before. I'm trying to compensate for the fact that their world is falling apart. Yes, my son has heard conversations I've had with others. He's feeling a lot of things, but I've been nothing but open and honest with him, and that's not something he can say about his father.



Kids don't get who filed what. They get Dad is gone and you're there he's not. Your intuition has not been spot on. How many times did we say other woman and you fought us saying he was just guilty and feeling unworthy due to past errors. Him not filing isn't due to forgetfulness on his part, or uncertainty. He's cold and calculating and setting himself up. Don't miss the boat!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Kids don't get who filed what. They get Dad is gone and you're there he's not. Your intuition has not been spot on. How many times did we say other woman and you fought us saying he was just guilty and feeling unworthy due to past errors. Him not filing isn't due to forgetfulness on his part, or uncertainty. He's cold and calculating and setting himself up. Don't miss the boat!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, but you know I knew the whole time, I was just in denial. I mean, I think a lot of loyals go through that. I just believed his justifications and excuses because I wanted to. I feel stupid about it right now.

You don't think he's not filed because he doesn't have the money? His best friend seems to think he's not over it all like he's acting and saying. He seems to think him taking the mementos of our marriage and relationship from the house showed that as well. But I don't know. Now that I think about it, him taking his wedding band could have been to sell it for the gold so he could have some spending money this weekend.  So he chose a vacation with his mistress and her child over filing for divorce.


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## Sas581011

Wow Lonely, I must say good on you for standing up for your
kids and making it difficult for him to move on, in the end he will
have this burden for the rest of his life. Divorce for him right now
is probably just formality and something he believes isn't 
important because there is nothing in it for him, so what does he
do, he backs off and treats it more like a doctors appoitment.
Lonely, just for the record, I have read many of your posts and
comments on mine and you are kicking some serious b*tt. Well 
Done you good thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks, Sas. I appreciate your encouragement. It's a hard road with lots of bumps, and I never meant to turn down it! 

I think you are right, he doesn't see it in the big picture. He just calls end game and that's all that matters. That really makes sense. It's just a formality for him. Maybe. I know in my heart that he'll one day realize what he's done. It will be too late. And he'll have to live with the fact that he single handedly decided our children's fates. Makes me ill.


----------



## LonelyNLost

So I just came across this article, and WOW! I had no idea this was what was going on with him for all this time. Gaslighting! I told you all how emotionally manipulated I felt. Well he was basically emotionally abusing me. He will say to this day I pushed him away because of my "digging". I read this article and it really hit home, all of it.  

What is Gaslighting? - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com


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## Sas581011

Yep, great article, I agree. We learn everyday "gaslighting"
Your situation does make good reference to this article. Lonely,
you are not imagining anything but what is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Gaslighting is no joke. My ex wrote the manual for Gaslighting someone. At first I jsut thought, He's nuts but as time went on it become very apparent to me how sick it was he'd do this. I mean, he would even do it about little things: "I never said that.... I never did that.. or I thought told me you were going to (fill in the blank)." He could talk to me on a Friady and say "Jelly, let's go to X next week" and a few days later, I'd say happily, "Yay! I can't go to X like you said!" a few days later and he would look me straight in the eyes, totally deadpan and say "I never said that." It was one of those _Do you believe me or your eyes_ things.

SICK.



golfergirl said:


> Kids don't get who filed what. They get Dad is gone and you're there he's not.


Yep. So set a good example for them. That you are above this BS.



golfergirl said:


> Him not filing isn't due to forgetfulness on his part, or uncertainty. He's cold and calculating and setting himself up. Don't miss the boat!


EXACTLY!!!! And this is what I have been saying the entire time. There is a REASON he hasn't filed yet and believe it, it's not because it benefits YOU or your kids in ANY way, shape or form.

He is plotting right now, scheming at how it helps him best to not file.



LonelyNLost said:


> You don't think he's not filed because he doesn't have the money?


NOPE. It's not because he can't afford to file right now. TRUST me. A man or woman who wants to file a divorce will FIND a way. Where there is a will, there is a way. He is biding his time. It's very very very calculated on his part. 

Time to start thinking logically, girl.

Think about it: He's already told you he wants a divorce (translation: doesn't want to be married to you). He's already left the marital home. He's already admitted to being with someone else now.

He wants out. He's just not filing because it isn't beneficial to him for whatever reason.

And I am almost certain it's because he's afraid like a motherf-cker that he's going to go broke REAL fast once the reality of a judge ordering him to pay you, his wife, temporary *spousal support and child support while the date for the divorce looms in the future (and who knows when the heck that could be...could take a LONG time to get a hearing date). 

That is why I say hit him up with papers and FAST. Nothing will make that little fantasy of his crash faster and harder and nothing at all will make the reality of what he has done and is about to take on (via your split) than those papers staring at him, that he has to respond to you in X amount of days.

He is COUNTING on the fact that you are not going to file straight away, taht you will sign wahtever BS agreement he left on your car, w/o involving lawyers, to make it easy for him. He is counting on your HOPING you guys can get back together so he sets up $$$ somewhere and doesn't have to pay out in the interim. 

Ultimately he is counting on you being his good little doormat so he can reap all the benefits of life w/o the responsibility of a family and wife and keep Vegas Skank on the side.

It's actually not a bad deal, if you're looking at it from his side of things. Think about it: He gets to save $ or plan whatever he is planning, gets the fun and sexy time from OW, gets to block you out of his life, cancel whatever and whenever he wants to get your kids since there is no formal agreement at this point, and the best part, the very very best part is, he has NO ONE telling him he needs to actually comply with anything, do anything, pay anything, respond to anything (via courts), etc. He can do whatever he wants! It's actually a pretty awesome deal.

He gets to live life like a free man w/o suffering the consequences.

And that, my dear, is what he is all about.

Cut this a-hole loose. Seriously.

It's sick.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I really don't know how I've created rubble or done anything to look unstable.


I'll let the others chime in here, as you don't like what I say about that stuff.



> Telling her to ditch me and leave me high and dry. That's coming soon I'm sure. Then he'll be able to fly out there and visit her.


Not if you file first - _for your kids' sakes_ - while he's high on PEA and willing to give you the farm so you'll go away.



> I'm sure his friend won't be able to bite his tongue any longer though if he showed up out there.


As usual, I'll say...SO WHAT?



> But I think that's what he wants me to do so he can sit and tell the kids it was my fault.


Again, SO WHAT? Do you think your kids are stupid? I know you don't. So what difference could it possibly make if he were to say that to them? HE is the one HURTING them. You think they'll buy it? 

Let's be honest here. This isn't so he won't say it's your fault. It's so YOU don't have to lose. Give in. Say 'you win, you get your freedom.' It's about you, Lonely.



> Why should I lay down and give him the satisfaction of having what he wants nice and easy, quick and done?


Um, so you can protect your _children_? If you don't want to listen to me or the others, then go and read some of the other threads. Read the stories of the one who didn't listen, who stayed, who believed they just HAD to make their cheater spouse be the one to file. Just HAD to. And then found out that, by then, the cheater had turned into a mean, nasty stranger who didn't give two figs if his kids had enough money to buy new shoes because, by THAT time, they weren't his family any more - they were just the kids that he once had with his old wife. Because, now, he had a NEW family that he cared about and wanted to spend his money on. And the only money he'd give that batsh*t-crazy ex-wife was what was dragged out of him by the courts. And he'd make damm sure she had to pay thousands on lawyers and court fees, just to get it.

THAT is the reality of 90% of all cheating husbands, Lonely. That's what you'll be dealing with in 12 months if you drag this out just to get satisfaction. If you don't believe me, read the threads. We're trying to save you from that, but right now, you're your own worst enemy.



> I don't want to get even, it isn't *completely* about that.


sigh

Which is it? NOT about getting even, or only PARTLY about getting even?



> letting him know I know the truth, and I see him for exactly what he is and he has done.


Do you think he's stupid? Did you think that when you married him? I doubt it. Then why do you attribute stupidity to him now? That's what this current excuse is...he's too dumb to realize that I know he's cheating, so I have to get in his face and TELL him I know. 

So he'll know. 

That I know.

Shall we just be honest maybe and just admit that you want to win, somehow, some way? You want your moment in the sun, to look him in the eye and 'get' something from him?

We're trying to help you see that this will never happen. He's already classified you in his head as a nutjob, a woman he was lucky to get away from. Do you truly think he will even care, if you approach him or somehow let him 'know' you know the truth?



> I also want to ensure the best position for myself and the kids in this divorce.


Then why do you not listen to the advice of so very many people who have seen this happen, over and over? File so that you can protect yourself and your kids.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> It's not truly. I think only his parents know, as well as her parents and friends. None of his friends know (except those I've told and they believe me). And he's blocked his aunts and uncles and mutual friends from his facebook wall.
> 
> He is 34. Living with his parents about 20 miles from us. He has been giving me his whole check (in our account) and just spending money on groceries, gas, food. I guess it's different when he is handing me money. I don't know. I think I'll call the lawyer I consulted with and see what I need to start doing.


 So you didn't expose this to them all like we advised?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> EXACTLY!!!! And this is what I have been saying the entire time. There is a REASON he hasn't filed yet and believe it, it's not because it benefits YOU or your kids in ANY way, shape or form. He is plotting right now, scheming at how it helps him best to not file.
> 
> NOPE. It's not because he can't afford to file right now. TRUST me. A man or woman who wants to file a divorce will FIND a way. Where there is a will, there is a way. He is biding his time. It's very very very calculated on his part.
> 
> That is why I say hit him up with papers and FAST. Nothing will make that little fantasy of his crash faster and harder and nothing at all will make the reality of what he has done and is about to take on (via your split) than those papers staring at him, that he has to respond to you in X amount of days.
> 
> It's actually not a bad deal, if you're looking at it from his side of things. Think about it: He gets to save $ or plan whatever he is planning, gets the fun and sexy time from OW, gets to block you out of his life, cancel whatever and whenever he wants to get your kids since there is no formal agreement at this point, and the best part, the very very best part is, he has NO ONE telling him he needs to actually comply with anything, do anything, pay anything, respond to anything (via courts), etc. He can do whatever he wants! It's actually a pretty awesome deal.
> 
> He gets to live life like a free man w/o suffering the consequences.


Okay, it's starting to sink in. You guys are getting through to me. I'm seriously considering calling that lawyer and figuring out what I need so she can draw the papers up. 

You are right that he's counting on the fact that I won't file. And he has this issue with winning and doing things first. Like he's had girlfriends that broke up with him, and he got back with them just so he could be the one to break up with them. He'll be blindsided. I just need to figure out what happens with child support and things. 




turnera said:


> Not if you file first - _for your kids' sakes_ - while he's high on PEA and willing to give you the farm so you'll go away.


I feel like one of the main benefits to filing now would possibly be the fact that he'd give me everything just to get out of it all. 



> Let's be honest here. This isn't so he won't say it's your fault. It's so YOU don't have to lose. Give in. Say 'you win, you get your freedom.' It's about you, Lonely.


What do I win if I don't file? I'm not winning anything. I could see that statement if I was like, "I'm going to file first so I can say I beat him to it." 



> Um, so you can protect your _children_? If you don't want to listen to me or the others, then go and read some of the other threads. Read the stories of the one who didn't listen, who stayed, who believed they just HAD to make their cheater spouse be the one to file. Just HAD to. And then found out that, by then, the cheater had turned into a mean, nasty stranger who didn't give two figs if his kids had enough money to buy new shoes because, by THAT time, they weren't his family any more - they were just the kids that he once had with his old wife. Because, now, he had a NEW family that he cared about and wanted to spend his money on. And the only money he'd give that batsh*t-crazy ex-wife was what was dragged out of him by the courts. And he'd make damm sure she had to pay thousands on lawyers and court fees, just to get it. We're trying to save you from that, but right now, you're your own worst enemy.


I guess you're right about one thing...I don't really know what he'll do. He's shown uncharacteristic behaviors so who's to say he won't walk out on the kids? He doesn't like anyone telling him what to do, and he doesn't like losing. He also cares what other people think although he vehemently will deny that. 



> Which is it? NOT about getting even, or only PARTLY about getting even?
> 
> Do you think he's stupid? Did you think that when you married him? I doubt it. Then why do you attribute stupidity to him now? That's what this current excuse is...he's too dumb to realize that I know he's cheating, so I have to get in his face and TELL him I know.
> 
> Shall we just be honest maybe and just admit that you want to win, somehow, some way? You want your moment in the sun, to look him in the eye and 'get' something from him?


It's not about winning for me. I meant my vows and I meant them forever. At this point, though, I'm seeking closure. The fact that he's doing all this without even filing is beyond me. He has broken his vows in the worst way. So now I can move forward and break away. The last thing he's expecting is me to file. Especially based on our last interaction where he kept asking if I'd do mediation or lawyer and I just shrugged. 

It's not exactly revenge I feel. A lot of it is like a freedom of letting him know that I'm not taking it anymore. I deserve better and he can sit in his own little sad world and justify to himself, but at the end of the day, the truth stands. He's emotionally manipulated and abused me for months. It's not acceptable. He's not going to gaslight me any longer.



> We're trying to help you see that this will never happen. He's already classified you in his head as a nutjob, a woman he was lucky to get away from. Do you truly think he will even care, if you approach him or somehow let him 'know' you know the truth?
> 
> Then why do you not listen to the advice of so very many people who have seen this happen, over and over? File so that you can protect yourself and your kids.


He hasn't classified me as a nutjob. He's doing all the justifying he can do, but even this person is not like that. He is angry, yes. He's angry because his lies are catching up to him and I see him for who he is. He's afraid of the truth. He told me and everyone else has agreed, that he has not said a negative thing about me. I'm sure this is different with his mom, of course, based on how she's been with me. 




turnera said:


> So you didn't expose this to them all like we advised?


I was going to, but I had a bunch of people to tell me not to expose, because then I'd look like a loon. That it would just be for revenge and an ugly thing to do, not to save the marriage. I posted a thread about it in "Coping with Infidelity". I feel like I should expose to his family members and mutual friends. And her parents/family and their mutual friends. But at this point, I'm kind of not sure.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, it's too late to expose now. Two months ago, you could have done it to try to save your marriage and get him out of the fog before it did too much damage. Too late for that.



> I feel like one of the main benefits to filing now would possibly be the fact that he'd give me everything just to get out of it all.


Exactly. Trust me, that's how they think. And like I said, he's acting just like every other run of the mill cheater.



> It's not exactly revenge I feel. A lot of it is like a freedom of letting him know that I'm not taking it anymore.


So...what's the number one way to SHOW him that you're not taking it anymore? And what's the ONE thing he expects the least from you, so will get the biggest response of shock and awe from him?

Yep, you guess it - for you to file and have him served with divorce papers. Think of the sinking feeling he'll get that day, not 'getting' to be the one to do it. And like you said, he's still in the PEA fog and at this time most likely to give you what you want so he can be with his OW.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, it's starting to sink in. You guys are getting through to me. I'm seriously considering calling that lawyer and figuring out what I need so she can draw the papers up.
> 
> You are right that he's counting on the fact that I won't file. And he has this issue with winning and doing things first. Like he's had girlfriends that broke up with him, and he got back with them just so he could be the one to break up with them. He'll be blindsided. I just need to figure out what happens with child support and things.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like one of the main benefits to filing now would possibly be the fact that he'd give me everything just to get out of it all.
> 
> 
> What do I win if I don't file? I'm not winning anything. I could see that statement if I was like, "I'm going to file first so I can say I beat him to it."
> 
> 
> I guess you're right about one thing...I don't really know what he'll do. He's shown uncharacteristic behaviors so who's to say he won't walk out on the kids? He doesn't like anyone telling him what to do, and he doesn't like losing. He also cares what other people think although he vehemently will deny that.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about winning for me. I meant my vows and I meant them forever. At this point, though, I'm seeking closure. The fact that he's doing all this without even filing is beyond me. He has broken his vows in the worst way. So now I can move forward and break away. The last thing he's expecting is me to file. Especially based on our last interaction where he kept asking if I'd do mediation or lawyer and I just shrugged.
> 
> It's not exactly revenge I feel. A lot of it is like a freedom of letting him know that I'm not taking it anymore. I deserve better and he can sit in his own little sad world and justify to himself, but at the end of the day, the truth stands. He's emotionally manipulated and abused me for months. It's not acceptable. He's not going to gaslight me any longer.
> 
> 
> 
> He hasn't classified me as a nutjob. He's doing all the justifying he can do, but even this person is not like that. He is angry, yes. He's angry because his lies are catching up to him and I see him for who he is. He's afraid of the truth. He told me and everyone else has agreed, that he has not said a negative thing about me. I'm sure this is different with his mom, of course, based on how she's been with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to, but I had a bunch of people to tell me not to expose, because then I'd look like a loon. That it would just be for revenge and an ugly thing to do, not to save the marriage. I posted a thread about it in "Coping with Infidelity". I feel like I should expose to his family members and mutual friends. And her parents/family and their mutual friends. But at this point, I'm kind of not sure.


Its just that it was old news by the time you were going to expose. He had time to cover his tracks and it just reflected worse on your mental stability than on his betrayal. 
Re: filing first. It will give you peace of mind and security to be able to count on X amount from him. It will be court ordered. Where it sits now you could check bank account next pay and he removed all of it - then what? You're three steps behind in the process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

turnera said:


> Yeah, it's too late to expose now. Two months ago, you could have done it to try to save your marriage and get him out of the fog before it did too much damage. Too late for that.
> 
> Exactly. Trust me, that's how they think. And like I said, he's acting just like every other run of the mill cheater.
> 
> So...what's the number one way to SHOW him that you're not taking it anymore? And what's the ONE thing he expects the least from you, so will get the biggest response of shock and awe from him?
> 
> Yep, you guess it - for you to file and have him served with divorce papers. Think of the sinking feeling he'll get that day, not 'getting' to be the one to do it. And like you said, he's still in the PEA fog and at this time most likely to give you what you want so he can be with his OW.


Exactly! You win. You're in driver's seat. You made the choice. You are done with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Yeah, it's too late to expose now. Two months ago, you could have done it to try to save your marriage and get him out of the fog before it did too much damage. Too late for that.
> 
> Exactly. Trust me, that's how they think. And like I said, he's acting just like every other run of the mill cheater.
> 
> So...what's the number one way to SHOW him that you're not taking it anymore? And what's the ONE thing he expects the least from you, so will get the biggest response of shock and awe from him?
> 
> Yep, you guess it - for you to file and have him served with divorce papers. Think of the sinking feeling he'll get that day, not 'getting' to be the one to do it. And like you said, he's still in the PEA fog and at this time most likely to give you what you want so he can be with his OW.


Yep, my husband the cheater. Never would have guessed it in a million years.  I think you're right. I don't think he'll expect it. Not sure why he's biding his time, but there's got to be a reason. And I doubt it's that he's unsure of his decision or trying to scare me so I back off while he runs his fantasy. I don't know how giving he'll be, but I guess we'll see. I need to call that attorney and see how long it takes to get everything together to file. And figure out a way to pay for it. 



golfergirl said:


> Its just that it was old news by the time you were going to expose. He had time to cover his tracks and it just reflected worse on your mental stability than on his betrayal.
> Re: filing first. It will give you peace of mind and security to be able to count on X amount from him. It will be court ordered. Where it sits now you could check bank account next pay and he removed all of it - then what? You're three steps behind in the process.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Kind of. MOST people don't know. I think his mom was mad about my facebook post because her family members probably asked her about it and she had to lie for H. Idk. Will they court order support immediately? I know he can stop putting his check in the account, and he probably will once I file. But right now I think he's feeling like he's supporting us, even though he's off galavanting around with his hooker. I like the idea of having the upper hand and serving HIM. I need to get on it!



golfergirl said:


> Exactly! You win. You're in driver's seat. You made the choice. You are done with him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I am.


----------



## Jellybeans

I agree with Golfergirl (who seems to be in my head, btw--we agree on so many points. LOL). The reason we told you no to "expose" was because it was too late. By the time you would have, it was all out in the open (esp. from him telling you directly). 2 months ago, yes it would have been better to expose but now it would be a moot point. 

He doesn't expect you to file at all. In your case, I would totally do it. I would ask for everything I wanted in the divorce petition: child custody, child support, spousal support, and financial stuff.

The person who files *I believe* does have the upper hand in a way because the spouse on the receiving end has to respond to it and defend themselves about what's being asked. 

It's going to be a HUGE reality check for him when he gets served if you file. Life isn't going to be so easy/comfortable then when the GRAVITY and the REALITY of what he has done/is choosing hits him. He won't feel so comfortable anymore and won't get to call the shots. Not just that, but he's playing nice *for now* w/ his check and your bank account but the longer his affair goes on, the worse for you. He could very well tomorrow decide he's not going to put any money in joint accounts w/ you and start putting the $ elsewhere.

Seriously, you are playing with fire every day you let this keep going on, Lonely.

You have got to stop thinking this way:

*The fact that he's doing all this without even filing is beyond me*. 

You need to start believing what he is doing. This is real. He is really checked out of your marriage, your family life, and having an affair, wants a divorce. The fact he's doing it all w/o filing makes PERFECT sense. Go back and re-read what I wrote to you before. There is absolutely a reason he's not filed. Filing right now doesn't not benefit him at all. And right now he is only thinking about himself. You are an afterthought.


----------



## LonelyNLost

You are right, he is only thinking of himself in true self-centered fashion. 

I emailed the attorney and asked her how much I need upfront and what I need to bring and told her I want to get going on it ASAP. Most everyone is supporting me going ahead with this. Even if there were some way that he wanted to work things out, the earth is too scorched. My family will never get over this. I have to move on and start fresh. The other decisions could be made later, but I need to ask for the world now.


----------



## Jellybeans

Lonely, don't forget to ask about payment plans. A lot of lawyers offer them.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Lonely, don't forget to ask about payment plans. A lot of lawyers offer them.


Yes, they do payment plans. But I wasn't sure how much she needed upfront. I have to get my money from a flex spending plan. It's sort of my secret savings. The reimbursement takes a couple days, but I figure he's in fantasy land so he's not going to be filing. He works on Saturday, according to what he told the kids, and he is off Sundays, but lawyers aren't working then. His next day off would be Thursday. I hope I can get in and get it done by then. Do I have to pay for the server too? I might just take $400 out of our joint account for the filing. It's a joint expense, LOL. 

Wonder what happens if we both file through lawyers at the same time? I'm thinking he might be in a hurry to do it after spending this time with her. Idk.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> MOST people don't know. I think his mom was mad about my facebook post because her family members probably asked her about it and she had to lie for H.


Which is exactly why we ALL told you to expose. Back then. Back then, you had a chance of embarrassing him and his family and getting them to push him to end the affair. Now, it's all a big mishmash of he said/she said and, in HIS family, they'll be only too happy to believe him.

Note, I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad. I'm stating it so that others reading your situation, who may be finding out about their own spouse's affair, can see WHY we give the advice we give.


----------



## turnera

Just tell the lawyer to start the proceedings today and you'll get to her at the first available hour with the down payment. And absolutely take money out of the joint account to pay to divorce his cheating ass.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Yes, they do payment plans. But I wasn't sure how much she needed upfront.


Re: payment plan...she may be even able to offer you a plan that has a reduction for the retainer, or something similar. Like, pay $500 now and then $500 later (example). 

I would seriously hit him wtih this FAST because as soon as he notices the money is gone from the account, he will be ONTO you and if you waffle, he could file first and state everything HE wants and youwill have to respond to his petition.

Be steal. Be strong.

Turner - I've never heard of a L proceed with D paperwork if they haven't received some sort of fees/retainer. But that is why you need to talk to your lawyer Lonely so they can answer all of your questions...


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Which is exactly why we ALL told you to expose. Back then. Back then, you had a chance of embarrassing him and his family and getting them to push him to end the affair. Now, it's all a big mishmash of he said/she said and, in HIS family, they'll be only too happy to believe him.
> 
> Note, I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad. I'm stating it so that others reading your situation, who may be finding out about their own spouse's affair, can see WHY we give the advice we give.


Yeah. Problem is he gaslighted me SOOO bad that I had my doubts about what was happening. By the point I posted that on facebook, he had already been to see a lawyer and was done with me. It all makes sense now. Remember how I called her phone and he got SOOO mad. And then me contacting her ex pissed him off even more, he said, "You pushed me to the edge." Gaslighting. Big time. I just retreated, like he wanted me to. I never exposed, I guess, because he manipulating me so well. In hindsight, he followed the cheater handbook well. I even doubted the cheating because it was almost TOO obvious. Guess there's no such thing as that. 



turnera said:


> Just tell the lawyer to start the proceedings today and you'll get to her at the first available hour with the down payment. And absolutely take money out of the joint account to pay to divorce his cheating ass.


I emailed her and I'll call after school today. Right now I don't have any money. I get paid Friday and my reimbursement from the flex spending account takes a few days. 



Jellybeans said:


> Re: payment plan...she may be even able to offer you a plan that has a reduction for the retainer, or something similar. Like, pay $500 now and then $500 later (example).
> 
> I would seriously hit him wtih this FAST because as soon as he notices the money is gone from the account, he will be ONTO you and if you waffle, he could file first and state everything HE wants and youwill have to respond to his petition.
> 
> Be steal. Be strong.
> 
> Turner - I've never heard of a L proceed with D paperwork if they haven't received some sort of fees/retainer. But that is why you need to talk to your lawyer Lonely so they can answer all of your questions...


I don't know how it works, guess I'll find out. It's $1,800 for the whole process if uncontested. Plus filing fees. She'll be present at mediation and court. I think she said half down then payments. But I'll have to double check again. There are other things, like I can pay $200 to have her fill out my paperwork with me, and other things. But I want to get it done now. ASAP.


----------



## turnera

Can you borrow from your mom til the money comes out of limbo?

I feel bad, because I realize that no one actually talked to you about gaslighting at the beginning, like we usually do, to warn you. I think that it's because you and I got so caught up in our strange squabble, and it fell by the wayside. I'm sorry.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Can you borrow from your mom til the money comes out of limbo?
> 
> I feel bad, because I realize that no one actually talked to you about gaslighting at the beginning, like we usually do, to warn you. I think that it's because you and I got so caught up in our strange squabble, and it fell by the wayside. I'm sorry.



No, my mom doesn't have any money to lend. My dad would maybe lend me some for filing. Not sure. 

I'm surprised no one told me he was gaslighting me. Even in my other long thread where he needed 5 days to find himself. And early on in this thread, even. I don't think it would have made a difference. I tell him what I read and what other people tell me and he's like, "Good for them." 

We're good, turnera.


----------



## Jellybeans

Talk to you dad! Just tell him when you can pay him by.

Well most people don't just tell someone they're being "gaslighted" Lonely. I think from the beginning everyone speculated he was having an affair, we told you to find out, confront the affair and to be done with him if he didn't end it.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Talk to you dad! Just tell him when you can pay him by.
> 
> Well most people don't just tell someone they're being "gaslighted" Lonely. I think from the beginning everyone speculated he was having an affair, we told you to find out, confront the affair and to be done with him if he didn't end it.


I HATE borrowing money, but this time it's for a good cause.  

Yeah, I don't mean someone should have prescribed the gaslighting, just that I had no idea that it was an actual manipulation tactic. He continues to use it when he says, "I've been judged by a jury of your choosing and I am no longer on trial." It's in everything. Makes it about me and my digging to find something that "isn't there". Well, obviously it was there, because I doubt it's a coincidence that you are now "talking" to her for 4 weeks. Especially when I told you way back in December that if you left you'd have a new girlfriend in two weeks, and you said, "What kind of person do you think I am?" Ugh. He's a waste of space. He better enjoy his kids in this lifetime, because he won't see them in the afterlife since he'll be burning in hell. Kind of ironic that THEIR song is "heaven". Haha.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I HATE borrowing money, but this time it's for a good cause.
> 
> Yeah, I don't mean someone should have prescribed the gaslighting, just that I had no idea that it was an actual manipulation tactic. He continues to use it when he says, "I've been judged by a jury of your choosing and I am no longer on trial." It's in everything. Makes it about me and my digging to find something that "isn't there". Well, obviously it was there, because I doubt it's a coincidence that you are now "talking" to her for 4 weeks. Especially when I told you way back in December that if you left you'd have a new girlfriend in two weeks, and you said, "What kind of person do you think I am?" Ugh. He's a waste of space. He better enjoy his kids in this lifetime, because he won't see them in the afterlife since he'll be burning in hell. Kind of ironic that THEIR song is "heaven". Haha.


So proud of you. You are focusing on something that will benefit you emotionally and benefit you and kids. Plus it gives him a kick in butt. How much pride you'll feel when he finds out you're done with him. Your choice - you don't want him anymore. He wasn't good enough for you and your kids.
I think jellybeans is one smart cookie - we think alike 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

Oh, God, the PI just asked me on a date. LOL! 

The answer to that is a resounding no.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I HATE borrowing money, but this time it's for a good cause.


I also hate borrowing $. Despise it, actually. My dear old dad was the one who helped w/ my retainer. And I just paid it off to him two evenings ago. He high-fived me. LOL. 

Re: the gaslighting. Don't feel like a dummy, Lonely. It is rare the cheater who will come out and say "Yeah I did have sex with OW and/or am cheating on you and I won it." They almost always tell you you're "craaaazy" and "I would NEVER do that" and "Who do you think I am?!" and "She is just a..... (drumroll)....FRIEND." Seriously, ti's a SCRIPT that they follow. Almost all cheaters say the same exact thing. So don't feel silly for actually believing him. They can be very convincing! 



golfergirl said:


> I think jellybeans is one smart cookie - we think alike


Great minds and all that jazz 



LonelyNLost said:


> Oh, God, the PI just asked me on a date.


Hey, now! If he's hot... :smthumbup:


----------



## BIP

LonelyNLost said:


> So I just came across this article, and WOW! I had no idea this was what was going on with him for all this time. Gaslighting! I told you all how emotionally manipulated I felt. Well he was basically emotionally abusing me. He will say to this day I pushed him away because of my "digging". I read this article and it really hit home, all of it.
> 
> What is Gaslighting? - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com


Thank you LOL for posting the link regarding "gaslighting." I was half way through reading it when I had to go home and print it and reread it with a highlighter! It's like a script fom the last 3 months of my marriage! OMG, I am just blown away. I don't think my husband is intentionally trying to drive me insane, but the denial and deflecting and downplaying and making me doubt myself and my instincts . . .WOW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tamara24

Lonely,

Just checking in,been nuts the last few days here.

I will read the gaslighting article tonight. My thoughts are that hitting him fast will definitley shake his reality. He may say he wants it but if he can keep things going and eat his cake too....
He is definitley holding off, I think he wants you to be nice and mediate. At this point, I look at ok, he screwed you over,he is a jerk but now he is messing with the kids. Momma is now kicking butt! Yes, I would love to see the look on hi face when he gets the papers.

If he tries to engage you, I would say, listen you and I both know she was here this weekend and the fact that yoiu choose to be with her than take care of your own shows me what type of man you have turned into.

Get those paper filed but don't make any hasty decisions yet. Sit down,pen and paper and think of what you want to happen. Also start taking money out of joint account and use it for filing and a little extra since h will most likely try to "show you" by stopping his checks.have enough to cover your important bills.if you haven't already, start sending his bills/mail with no longer lives here in bright red marker!

Heeeeyyy,wouldn't that be a hoot? Hey I am going out on a date with the PI that I hired to watch your butt? Maybe he will give you discounted rate?? Haha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

BIP said:


> Thank you LOL for posting the link regarding "gaslighting." I was half way through reading it when I had to go home and print it and reread it with a highlighter! It's like a script fom the last 3 months of my marriage! OMG, I am just blown away. I don't think my husband is intentionally trying to drive me insane, but the denial and deflecting and downplaying and making me doubt myself and my instincts . . .WOW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are welcome. I wish someone would have given me that link. It's over in the infidelity section under someone's post. It played like a script my H read straight off of. Part of justifying to themselves is making us think we are crazy. I learned in all this to trust my gut. I posted that article on my facebook for my mom to see. Not sure what it posted as.


----------



## turnera

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> 
> Just checking in,been nuts the last few days here.
> 
> I will read the gaslighting article tonight. My thoughts are that hitting him fast will definitley shake his reality. He may say he wants it but if he can keep things going and eat his cake too....
> He is definitley holding off, I think he wants you to be nice and mediate. At this point, I look at ok, he screwed you over,he is a jerk but now he is messing with the kids. Momma is now kicking butt! Yes, I would love to see the look on hi face when he gets the papers.
> 
> If he tries to engage you, I would say, listen you and I both know she was here this weekend and the fact that yoiu choose to be with her than take care of your own shows me what type of man you have turned into.
> 
> Get those paper filed but don't make any hasty decisions yet. Sit down,pen and paper and think of what you want to happen. Also start taking money out of joint account and use it for filing and a little extra since h will most likely try to "show you" by stopping his checks.have enough to cover your important bills.if you haven't already, start sending his bills/mail with no longer lives here in bright red marker!
> 
> Heeeeyyy,wouldn't that be a hoot? Hey I am going out on a date with the PI that I hired to watch your butt? Maybe he will give you discounted rate?? Haha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Ooh! Where did I read it? Don't remember, but one of these forums, someone recommended that you start taking money out of the account - while you still have it - and buying gift cards to all the places you'll need to spend money. Grocery stores, clothes/shoe stores, Home Depot, everything.

Once money gets tight - and it WILL - you'll have hundreds, thousands, of dollars tucked away in gift cards that he can't find and can't touch.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Re: the gaslighting. Don't feel like a dummy, Lonely. It is rare the cheater who will come out and say "Yeah I did have sex with OW and/or am cheating on you and I won it." They almost always tell you you're "craaaazy" and "I would NEVER do that" and "Who do you think I am?!" and "She is just a..... (drumroll)....FRIEND." Seriously, ti's a SCRIPT that they follow. Almost all cheaters say the same exact thing. So don't feel silly for actually believing him. They can be very convincing!
> 
> Hey, now! If he's hot... :smthumbup:


Yeah, it would be so much easier if they fessed up. But they don't want their fantasy world to crash down I guess. He even convinced his best friend in the same way. He'll tell others I'm crazy because I thought this and that. But I don't care. His mind is all twisted and I don't care what he thinks.

Never saw the PI, did it via Western Union. Doesn't sound like someone I'd enjoy, LOL!



tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> I will read the gaslighting article tonight. My thoughts are that hitting him fast will definitley shake his reality. He may say he wants it but if he can keep things going and eat his cake too....
> He is definitley holding off, I think he wants you to be nice and mediate. At this point, I look at ok, he screwed you over,he is a jerk but now he is messing with the kids. Momma is now kicking butt! Yes, I would love to see the look on hi face when he gets the papers.
> 
> If he tries to engage you, I would say, *listen you and I both know she was here this weekend and the fact that yoiu choose to be with her than take care of your own shows me what type of man you have turned into.*
> 
> Get those paper filed but don't make any hasty decisions yet. Sit down,pen and paper and think of what you want to happen. Also start taking money out of joint account and use it for filing and a little extra since h will most likely try to "show you" by stopping his checks.have enough to cover your important bills.if you haven't already, start sending his bills/mail with no longer lives here in bright red marker!
> 
> Heeeeyyy,wouldn't that be a hoot? Hey I am going out on a date with the PI that I hired to watch your butt? Maybe he will give you discounted rate?? Haha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like that. But maybe on Saturday when he picks up the kids. Or after I file. Good points. I agree. My check is coming via paper this week, then next time it will go in my new account. Our joint account has $20 in it. I'm guessing his check will go in, but I was thinking of just withdrawing cash to file. I do need to forward the bills, was trying to figure out how to do it online. He'll be mad when he realizes how screwed we are financially. Oh well. 

I think he just isn't bothering with filing because he's such a procrastinator. This might actually be a good time. He's got to miss the kids, and he'll be all high after just spending a week with her. It will blindside him for sure. I'm waiting to hear back from that lawyer. She goes through it all and sounded like she knew what she was doing. I'm going to spend some time this weekend going through paperwork and situating all that stuff.


----------



## turnera

Unfortunately, the PI probably just knows you're vulnerable (as he does know your situation), and figures you're an easy lay. All he has to do is show you some concern and caring.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Ooh! Where did I read it? Don't remember, but one of these forums, someone recommended that you start taking money out of the account - while you still have it - and buying gift cards to all the places you'll need to spend money. Grocery stores, clothes/shoe stores, Home Depot, everything.
> 
> Once money gets tight - and it WILL - you'll have hundreds, thousands, of dollars tucked away in gift cards that he can't find and can't touch.


I've heard that before. One of my mom's friends took her credit card to the grocery store and bought tons of gift cards to all sorts of places which maxed her card out. She stopped paying the card, but had all the gift cards. I could do that. Would just look like I'm buying groceries. But I'd be buying grocery store gift cards. And Gymboree.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Unfortunately, the PI probably just knows you're vulnerable (as he does know your situation), and figures you're an easy lay. All he has to do is show you some concern and caring.


I know, that's horrible isn't it?! He was asking me questions about me today and being sympathetic.  It really is disgusting. Exactly what my mom said, they probably prey on women in this situation.


----------



## Jellybeans

The PI thing reminds me of Sex & the City when Charlotte ended up dating and later marrying Harry, her divorce lawyer. LOL.

If anything I bet the PI would have some good stories about cases he's had!!!



BIP said:


> I don't think my husband is intentionally trying to drive me insane, but the denial and deflecting and downplaying and making me doubt myself and my instincts . . .WOW.


Gaslighting is actually very calculated. It's not something that is done unintentionally. 



LonelyNLost said:


> I think he just isn't bothering with filing because he's such a procrastinator.


He's not procrastinating. He's plotting. Trust me. 

I just don't want o see you in a situation where you go to tcheck the joint account and there is nothing there and he later tells you, Well I took all the $ out and from now on I will be handling it on my own since we're separated and splitting up. 

MOVE FAST, Grasshopper!


----------



## tamara24

I agree get money out fast. Gift card idea is a good one but keep cash on hand too for emergencies.he will not be your friend when he gets slapped with the papers and money is taken out of the account. Take his namename off of any accounts (credit cards) so he can't run them up on you in retaliation. Only your cards,not his. 

When he starts getting snotty, say hey, talk to my lawyer. Don't engage,don't give any ammo. Just stay calm. Remind him. You asked for a divorce,you got it. When he realizes how much this is costing I'm financially and emotionally,he is going to freak. This was his consequence for his actions,let him ride it out. Don't give in to his requests because he is upset or hurting. 

As far as his mom is concerned. If she has to pick the kids up,make a point that you take the kids over. I would not give her anything to tell him. She changed the locks....your neighbor was over there....
You have no idea what he has told her so for the benefit of the kids, bite your tongue and stay polite.

Your doing good girl! Hang in there!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> The PI thing reminds me of Sex & the City when Charlotte ended up dating and later marrying Harry, her divorce lawyer. LOL.
> 
> If anything I bet the PI would have some good stories about cases he's had!!!


Yeah, but I'm not opening that can of worms. I might need to sit with him to go over stuff, but it was an obvious flirty thing. I wish he'd just hack H's email already, but he said that's $1,000. Haven't heard from him and time is running out. She might be leaving tomorrow! 




> He's not procrastinating. He's plotting. Trust me.
> 
> I just don't want o see you in a situation where you go to tcheck the joint account and there is nothing there and he later tells you, Well I took all the $ out and from now on I will be handling it on my own since we're separated and splitting up.
> 
> MOVE FAST, Grasshopper!


Okay, waiting to hear back from lawyer. Hop, hop!



tamara24 said:


> I agree get money out fast. Gift card idea is a good one but keep cash on hand too for emergencies.he will not be your friend when he gets slapped with the papers and money is taken out of the account. Take his namename off of any accounts (credit cards) so he can't run them up on you in retaliation. Only your cards,not his.
> 
> When he starts getting snotty, say hey, talk to my lawyer. Don't engage,don't give any ammo. Just stay calm. Remind him. You asked for a divorce,you got it. When he realizes how much this is costing I'm financially and emotionally,he is going to freak. This was his consequence for his actions,let him ride it out. Don't give in to his requests because he is upset or hurting.


I need to call all of the cards. They are all pretty much maxed out. But I need to make some calls to give them his address and remove myself from accounts on which I'm an authorized user. I'm not joint or primary owner on like any of them. So they are going to his parent's house. And I'm going to go ahead and give them the in-laws' home number, especially the delinquent credit card so they can feel what it's like to have their irresponsible 34 year old son living at home. 



> As far as his mom is concerned. If she has to pick the kids up,make a point that you take the kids over. I would not give her anything to tell him. She changed the locks....your neighbor was over there....
> You have no idea what he has told her so for the benefit of the kids, bite your tongue and stay polite.
> 
> Your doing good girl! Hang in there!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He picks them up. She was going to because he couldn't come and I said he needed to figure out a way. But I told her to forget it. I'm not engaging with her any long. It's apparent where her compassion lies and it isn't with me. This was the actual conversation from Tuesday morning:

_HER "We have plans tonight so if you can find someone else to watch kids let us know. If not FIL can pickup at 5:30 but have to bring back at 6:30. Let me know so we can arrange schedule". 

ME "Of course you do. That won't work. Guess H is going to have to figure out a way to get them tonight from 6 to 7:30 as agreed. Idk why I'm left to pick up the pieces." 

HER"We will pick them up (insert my full first name here). Please have them ready. You really don't need to be sarcastic. I don't treat you that way." 

ME"No, you just stonewall me like I have done ANYthing wrong. Forget it. He can't get his priorities straight then I will protect the kids. The truth is obvious and sad." 

HER "What are you implying...that you need to protect the kids from us? I didn't stonewall you either. I don't believe in posting a very private issue on a public domain." 

ME "I'm sure he'd like to keep it private. I haven't posted the truth. Are you proud to support his wreckless choices? I'm ashamed for him. His priorities are clear." 
_

You know how hard it is to not be like, "I know exactly what he is off doing, so you don't have to lie and avoid me anymore. You also don't have to get angry at me for the truth getting out. It always reveals itself. But at this point, I don't care."


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Yeah, but I'm not opening that can of worms. I might need to sit with him to go over stuff, but it was an obvious flirty thing. I wish he'd just hack H's email already, but he said that's $1,000. Haven't heard from him and time is running out. She might be leaving tomorrow!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, waiting to hear back from lawyer. Hop, hop!
> 
> 
> 
> I need to call all of the cards. They are all pretty much maxed out. But I need to make some calls to give them his address and remove myself from accounts on which I'm an authorized user. I'm not joint or primary owner on like any of them. So they are going to his parent's house. And I'm going to go ahead and give them the in-laws' home number, especially the delinquent credit card so they can feel what it's like to have their irresponsible 34 year old son living at home.
> 
> 
> 
> He picks them up. She was going to because he couldn't come and I said he needed to figure out a way. But I told her to forget it. I'm not engaging with her any long. It's apparent where her compassion lies and it isn't with me. This was the actual conversation from Tuesday morning:
> 
> _HER "We have plans tonight so if you can find someone else to watch kids let us know. If not FIL can pickup at 5:30 but have to bring back at 6:30. Let me know so we can arrange schedule".
> 
> ME "Of course you do. That won't work. Guess H is going to have to figure out a way to get them tonight from 6 to 7:30 as agreed. Idk why I'm left to pick up the pieces."
> 
> HER"We will pick them up (insert my full first name here). Please have them ready. You really don't need to be sarcastic. I don't treat you that way."
> 
> ME"No, you just stonewall me like I have done ANYthing wrong. Forget it. He can't get his priorities straight then I will protect the kids. The truth is obvious and sad."
> 
> HER "What are you implying...that you need to protect the kids from us? I didn't stonewall you either. I don't believe in posting a very private issue on a public domain."
> 
> ME "I'm sure he'd like to keep it private. I haven't posted the truth. Are you proud to support his wreckless choices? I'm ashamed for him. His priorities are clear."
> _
> 
> You know how hard it is to not be like, "I know exactly what he is off doing, so you don't have to lie and avoid me anymore. You also don't have to get angry at me for the truth getting out. It always reveals itself. But at this point, I don't care."


What a hag. 5:30 to 6:30 why bother? She's annoyed at covering his butt and taking it out on you. I was told I didn't have to turn kids over to anyone but their dad. Custody/visitation was between him and I and he had to pick up- not his stupid girlfriend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Yeah, but I'm not opening that can of worms. I might need to sit with him to go over stuff, but it was an obvious flirty thing. I wish he'd just hack H's email already, but he said that's $1,000. Haven't heard from him and time is running out. She might be leaving tomorrow!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, waiting to hear back from lawyer. Hop, hop!
> 
> 
> 
> I need to call all of the cards. They are all pretty much maxed out. But I need to make some calls to give them his address and remove myself from accounts on which I'm an authorized user. I'm not joint or primary owner on like any of them. So they are going to his parent's house. And I'm going to go ahead and give them the in-laws' home number, especially the delinquent credit card so they can feel what it's like to have their irresponsible 34 year old son living at home.
> 
> 
> 
> He picks them up. She was going to because he couldn't come and I said he needed to figure out a way. But I told her to forget it. I'm not engaging with her any long. It's apparent where her compassion lies and it isn't with me. This was the actual conversation from Tuesday morning:
> 
> _HER "We have plans tonight so if you can find someone else to watch kids let us know. If not FIL can pickup at 5:30 but have to bring back at 6:30. Let me know so we can arrange schedule".
> 
> ME "Of course you do. That won't work. Guess H is going to have to figure out a way to get them tonight from 6 to 7:30 as agreed. Idk why I'm left to pick up the pieces."
> 
> HER"We will pick them up (insert my full first name here). Please have them ready. You really don't need to be sarcastic. I don't treat you that way."
> 
> ME"No, you just stonewall me like I have done ANYthing wrong. Forget it. He can't get his priorities straight then I will protect the kids. The truth is obvious and sad."
> 
> HER "What are you implying...that you need to protect the kids from us? I didn't stonewall you either. I don't believe in posting a very private issue on a public domain."
> 
> ME "I'm sure he'd like to keep it private. I haven't posted the truth. Are you proud to support his wreckless choices? I'm ashamed for him. His priorities are clear."
> _
> 
> You know how hard it is to not be like, "I know exactly what he is off doing, so you don't have to lie and avoid me anymore. You also don't have to get angry at me for the truth getting out. It always reveals itself. But at this point, I don't care."


I think I would have responded more rudely that you did - something to tune of: F-it you busy people not worth it.
Did you really have plans? Just curious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Niceguy13

LnL all that makes me so much happier I have the in-laws that I have. They don'tknow everything the FIL didn't read the message I sent him but without knowing everything they still think their daughter is acting in a selfish manner. Don't get me wrong they aren't attacking her nor would I want them to but they are quietly supporting me and giving me advice and help. Especialy my FIl who doesn't want to lose the son he never had.


----------



## golfergirl

Niceguy13 said:


> LnL all that makes me so much happier I have the in-laws that I have. They don'tknow everything the FIL didn't read the message I sent him but without knowing everything they still think their daughter is acting in a selfish manner. Don't get me wrong they aren't attacking her nor would I want them to but they are quietly supporting me and giving me advice and help. Especialy my FIl who doesn't want to lose the son he never had.


I have ex from hell but inlaws always treated me decent. And I them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> You know how hard it is to not be like, "I know exactly what he is off doing, so you don't have to lie and avoid me anymore. "


 Well, if you weren't determined to get proof through the PI of what you already know, it wouldn't matter what you told his mom.


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> What a hag. 5:30 to 6:30 why bother? She's annoyed at covering his butt and taking it out on you. I was told I didn't have to turn kids over to anyone but their dad. Custody/visitation was between him and I and he had to pick up- not his stupid girlfriend.





golfergirl said:


> I think I would have responded more rudely that you did - something to tune of: F-it you busy people not worth it.
> Did you really have plans? Just curious.


No, I didn't really have plans, I relish every second with my kids. But I know in time I will look forward to those times when they are with him because I'll be able to use that time for me. 

I thought for sure you guys would get on me for engaging with her. LOL. She was rather b!tchy. And I meant it when I said "of course you have plans", that is just how they are. It's all about them. 



Niceguy13 said:


> LnL all that makes me so much happier I have the in-laws that I have. They don'tknow everything the FIL didn't read the message I sent him but without knowing everything they still think their daughter is acting in a selfish manner. Don't get me wrong they aren't attacking her nor would I want them to but they are quietly supporting me and giving me advice and help. Especialy my FIl who doesn't want to lose the son he never had.


Niceguy, I always liked my in laws, although they are really selfish. They've never been very involved in our children's lives or ours. They are all about their son, and even whine if he doesn't go visit them. They lived 3 hours away where my parents are, and followed us over here, along with MIL's parents. But we still only see them every couple months. But they've always loved me. She was actually my main support until March. She totally thought he was doing inappropriate things with the ex girlfriend. But now she's protecting him, obviously. Probably from the rest of the family. I'm guessing she had to explain my facebook posts to the rest of the family and she didn't like lying for him. I can guarantee one thing, she's been pushing him to tell me the truth, especially if she knows it. In texts and in person, she would always call me Sweetie, I guess not anymore. LOL.




turnera said:


> Well, if you weren't determined to get proof through the PI of what you already know, it wouldn't matter what you told his mom.


Oh, I'll be telling her alright, just not now. Probably this weekend. I understand your loyalty is to your kid, but he's f'ing up big time. It isn't about his "happiness" it's about his commitment. I can't believe they even buy that BS about his happiness. They are so enabling. He's an only child, and they are coddling him. Grrr. I'd love to say it to her face.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Excellent post! It's what all of you have been telling me, but I was too caught up in the "smog" to hear it. I think I'm going to keep it on me at all times.  

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html


----------



## tamara24

Lonely,

I read the post. Listen, your hubby has told the MIL what she needs to hear to make you look like the villian. He is just being a good man trying to get through this. That is what he wants her to belive. Now, instead of just dancing around the fact,why didn't you say,look you and I both know he is with --- and it is his responsibility to get his kids as we agreed. If he can't make his commitment then he needs to contact me directly to tell me what he is planning to do with the kids. My issue with you is not that you want to get the kids for him, but the fact you have not spoken to me or answered my texts until now. Regardless of what choices you son has made, you and I are still connected because I have your grandchildren. I still respect you(even though you really don't) and I expect that you will treat me with the same respect.

There is no need to insinuate what you know or how she feels. Be straight forward. You know she is going to show him your text and he will say something. But what do you have to lose? Let's not mince words here,call a duck a duck. Let her know exactly how you feel(stick to facts). What are you going to lose?she won't talk to you? Hmmm been there,done that already. She has taken her side already cause she choose to believe her son. So now, just say the truth and facts. Don't give hubby more ammo to show u are nuts. That is what the text showed.

Just stick to facts. This was agreed night to see his kids. He missed last Thursday and Easter weekend. I know he is with--- and he should notify me so we can discuss it as adults instead of making me change my plans to accommodate his affair. Boom said it, it goes back to hubby. Wife got a spine! Crap now I can't use her as doormat! Dang!

Your doing good girl, just stop mincing words. Your done, this is what your needs are about now. Set the behaior from the begining just like you would a puppy. Treat him like the dog he is. I know you were with---let's not pretend. Slap him with divorce papers. You want to mediate, this is WHAT I WANT. 

Last night I was looking for your thread and I came across another one. It was about a man who left his wife for OW. His high school sweetheart. He left with only his stuff cause he wanted to just get out of the marraige. He is now on here asking how to deal with his wife(high school sweetheart) cause she resents him because he didn'tfight hard enough fo thngs, he didn't have money so they had to live in an apartment. He was so in the fog, he just leaped right into the fire. It could have been your hubby. You need to read it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

> I read the post. Listen, your hubby has told the MIL what she needs to hear to make you look like the villian. He is just being a good man trying to get through this. That is what he wants her to belive. Now, instead of just dancing around the fact,why didn't you say,*look you and I both know he is with --- and it is his responsibility to get his kids as we agreed. If he can't make his commitment then he needs to contact me directly to tell me what he is planning to do with the kids. My issue with you is not that you want to get the kids for him, but the fact you have not spoken to me or answered my texts until now. Regardless of what choices you son has made, you and I are still connected because I have your grandchildren. I still respect you(even though you really don't) and I expect that you will treat me with the same respect.* LOVE IT!
> 
> There is no need to insinuate what you know or how she feels. Be straight forward. You know she is going to show him your text and he will say something. But what do you have to lose? Let's not mince words here,call a duck a duck. Let her know exactly how you feel(stick to facts). What are you going to lose?she won't talk to you? Hmmm been there,done that already. She has taken her side already cause she choose to believe her son. So now, just say the truth and facts. Don't give hubby more ammo to show u are nuts. That is what the text showed.
> 
> Just stick to facts. This was agreed night to see his kids. He missed last Thursday and Easter weekend. I know he is with--- and he should notify me so we can discuss it as adults instead of making me change my plans to accommodate his affair. Boom said it, it goes back to hubby. Wife got a spine! Crap now I can't use her as doormat! Dang!


Awe, crap, I thought I did something right! I see what you're saying. I just couldn't go there via text, and with the PI pending. I would LOVE to have that conversation with her. Even if it ends up being me leaving her a voicemail. Why did my texts show I was nuts? Because I insinuated that I knew the truth? Even saying he is having an affair, since he's already justified and lied his way around that to his parents, would make me look nuts at this point. Deep down she has to know. Or maybe not. She's rather flighty.



> Your doing good girl, just stop mincing words. Your done, this is what your needs are about now. Set the behaior from the begining just like you would a puppy. Treat him like the dog he is. I know you were with---let's not pretend. Slap him with divorce papers. You want to mediate, this is WHAT I WANT.
> 
> Last night I was looking for your thread and I came across another one. It was about a man who left his wife for OW. His high school sweetheart. He left with only his stuff cause he wanted to just get out of the marraige. He is now on here asking how to deal with his wife(high school sweetheart) cause she resents him because he didn'tfight hard enough fo thngs, he didn't have money so they had to live in an apartment. He was so in the fog, he just leaped right into the fire. It could have been your hubby. You need to read it.


Could you link it to me? I'd love to read it. He married the OW? Basically you are saying I need to give him the divorce now before he has second thoughts about our marital property? He will be screwed, he did acknowledge that. He brings home about $2200 a month, and he'll be paying almost $900 in child support as it stands with the current visitation. That doesn't leave enough to really live on. But I'm not going to really be sitting pretty either. My credit is going to be a tragedy. Oh well. Starting over. Maybe the next guy will be rich, lol.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> Why did my texts show I was nuts? Because I insinuated that I knew the truth? Even saying he is having an affair, since he's already justified and lied his way around that to his parents, would make me look nuts at this point. Deep down she has to know.


Here's the difference. 

Do you want to be seen as someone that people admire? Of course you do. Well, here's how:

When something wrong is done to you, what classifies you as admirable is _what you do_ afterward.

The most best way to react is to walk away. You don't need me? Fine. I can do better than that. You defend your son when he blatantly abandons his wife and kids? Keep him I can do better. I WILL do better.

THAT is classy, THAT is admirable, THAT is secure. 

I don't think you're there yet, you have some introspection yet to do to reach that level of calmness.

But you can practice it.


----------



## Jellybeans

tamara24; said:


> Last night I was looking for your thread and I came across another one. It was about a man who left his wife for OW. His high school sweetheart. He left with only his stuff cause he wanted to just get out of the marraige. He is now on here asking how to deal with his wife(high school sweetheart) cause she resents him because he didn'tfight hard enough fo thngs, he didn't have money so they had to live in an apartment. He was so in the fog, he just leaped right into the fire. It could have been your hubby. You need to read it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ahhh! I read that post and KNEW it was going to get some interesting responses. I was going to post "Let me grab the popcorn" but then deleted it. The guy who posted it cannot see the irony I bet. 



LonelyNLost said:


> Could you link it to me? I'd love to read it. He married the OW?


Here it is... in the General Relationships thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/24778-my-broken-lady.html




LonelyNLost said:


> Basically you are saying I need to give him the divorce now before he has second thoughts about our marital property? He will be screwed, he did acknowledge that. *He brings home about $2200 a month, and he'll be paying almost $900 in child support as it stands with the current visitation. That doesn't leave enough to really live on*.


NOT your problem. HE is the one who UNILATERALLY decided to end your marriage, ok? He is the one who left, He is the one who is carrying on with Vegas Skank, the one who wants this divorce. He abandoned you. You get it? So if his lifestyle chances, that is a direct result of his decision. Don't pity him.


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## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> Here's the difference.
> 
> Do you want to be seen as someone that people admire? Of course you do. Well, here's how:
> 
> When something wrong is done to you, what classifies you as admirable is _what you do_ afterward.
> 
> The most best way to react is to walk away. You don't need me? Fine. I can do better than that.


Yep. This is the ticket! If someone doesn't want to be with you anymore, respect yourself enough to walk away with dignity. Don't dig a hole and try to placate them or yell at them or tell them how awful they are. They will end up admiring you if you can retrieve with dignity.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Here's the difference.
> 
> Do you want to be seen as someone that people admire? Of course you do. Well, here's how:
> 
> When something wrong is done to you, what classifies you as admirable is _what you do_ afterward.
> 
> The most best way to react is to walk away. You don't need me? Fine. I can do better than that. You defend your son when he blatantly abandons his wife and kids? Keep him I can do better. I WILL do better.
> 
> THAT is classy, THAT is admirable, THAT is secure.
> 
> I don't think you're there yet, you have some introspection yet to do to reach that level of calmness.
> 
> But you can practice it.


Yeah, I get it. It just goes against human nature, which is what makes it so hard. Especially when you feel so much for someone that's always seemed to care what you thought and felt. We built our lives together around communicating (well apparently I did, he didn't). And it's so hard not to communicate how I feel now. But I digress. It is a lot like yelling at a wall for getting in your way. 



Jellybeans said:


> NOT your problem. HE is the one who UNILATERALLY decided to end your marriage, ok? He is the one who left, He is the one who is carrying on with Vegas Skank, the one who wants this divorce. He abandoned you. You get it? So if his lifestyle chances, that is a direct result of his decision. Don't pity him.


I will read it, thanks for sending the link. 

I don't feel bad for him at all. Just seems like this affair, or relationship really now, has some plans for becoming something if he's willing to suffer with that. I don't pity him. I think a lot of it karma. He'll get his in due time. 




Jellybeans said:


> Yep. This is the ticket! If someone doesn't want to be with you anymore, respect yourself enough to walk away with dignity. Don't dig a hole and try to placate them or yell at them or tell them how awful they are. They will end up admiring you if you can retrieve with dignity.


You all are beating it into my head. I am getting there. He knows how awful he is, he just won't admit it. It's going to hurt the day his kids realize what he did and they tell him how much it affected them. At that point, I'll still have my dignity.


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## Jellybeans

Yes and the sooner you accept it's over and take steps to move on, the better for you.

You need to start thinking of him as a ghost. He's gone. It's over.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Yes and the sooner you accept it's over and take steps to move on, the better for you.
> 
> You need to start thinking of him as a ghost. He's gone. It's over.


Yeah, I've got that. I was telling my friend last night that when I think of him, it disgusts me. Those loving feelings are gone. The person he was is gone. When I think of him, all I see are those cold, calculating, shifting eyes lying right to my face. He grosses me out. 

I just responded to that post about the guy with the Broken Lady. Goodness, hope I wasn't too hard. I bit my tongue as much as I could. But wow. Does he not see the irony? Unbelievable. Karma does exist!


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## Jellybeans

I saw your post LOL.


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## LonelyNLost

Tonight was so difficult. I don't know why, I've been doing really well. My son had a friend over and they got rowdy and my daughter started crying so I said it was time for friend to go home. My son threw himself on the couch and started backtalking so I told him I would not put up with that behavior and he broke down crying, then daughter was crying, and they were holding each other crying. How do I even handle that? Son is acting out a little acting silly at school, and being defiant when I tell him to take a bath, do homework, etc. He gets upset because I ruin his fun. I'm the bad guy. As they were both crying and he wouldn't talk to me I tried to call H and let him know what was going on. He didn't answer his phone. And I tried to have the kids call at 8pm and it rang twice and he didn't answer. I guess he's enjoying his last night with skankzilla.  

Should I not even tell him about the kids' breakdowns? How do I handle that? 

And give me an idea of what to say to him when he picks the kids up on Saturday. His mom deleted my fake profile today, so now I can't see OW's wall. Kind of odd. Someone is on to me.


----------



## BIP

LonelyNLost said:


> Should I not even tell him about the kids' breakdowns? How do I handle that?
> 
> And give me an idea of what to say to him when he picks the kids up on Saturday. His mom deleted my fake profile today, so now I can't see OW's wall. Kind of odd. Someone is on to me.


I gave my 10 year old son a legal pad the other night, and told him to write how he feels. He wrote some pretty NASTY stuff about my H and his friends and how they don't treat him fairly or with respect. The next night my son and I got into a fight and the next morning there was a legal page FULL saying "I hate Mommy, I wish I didn't say those things about Daddy."
I brought both letters to MC, and we all had a laugh. The MC was impressed that he could articulate his feelings so well and encouraged him to continue to do so!
It's the older one who doesn't say a word that I worry about:-(


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## turnera

Ignore them all. 

If I had a kid I had to share, I would be keeping a notebook and writing daily notations at the end of the day of what transpired. When appropriate, give him a copy so he'll know what happened to his kids that week. Without you having to talk to him.


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## LonelyNLost

BIP said:


> I gave my 10 year old son a legal pad the other night, and told him to write how he feels. He wrote some pretty NASTY stuff about my H and his friends and how they don't treat him fairly or with respect. The next night my son and I got into a fight and the next morning there was a legal page FULL saying "I hate Mommy, I wish I didn't say those things about Daddy."
> I brought both letters to MC, and we all had a laugh. The MC was impressed that he could articulate his feelings so well and encouraged him to continue to do so!
> It's the older one who doesn't say a word that I worry about:-(


My son will be 9 next month. I'm not sure exactly what's going through his mind, but he's confused that's for sure. I feel like maybe he's afraid to talk about things because he doesn't want to upset me. And when I talk to him it upsets him. And when he's with H, neither of them talk for the same reason. H missed his only opportunity for son to start the convo when son asked him if he was ever coming home. He blew it off and just said he didn't know. But this was after he was "talking" to OW by his accord. I feel like their relationship is going to be strained because it's all so fake over there. Here he sees me grieve but get stronger, and I'm always honest with him. H has never had ANY kind of discussion with him. It's crazy. I don't know if my son would write in a notebook. I think I"m just going to work on getting him into a counselor and hopefully he opens up. 

turnera - you mean ignore him and his family? Don't tell him I know or anything? And what you're saying with the notebook is just notes on what was said and breakdowns, like a diary. Sending it back and forth?


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## tamara24

Lonely,
I have tried four times to write you last night and it never panned out. The MIL is in the fog with your hubby. He has. Lied to her,made you the villian and never gave you a chance. Figthting with her is useless. You have nothing to loose if you simply state the truth. Let's call a duck a duck,she won't like it,but who cares,she will be your ex soon enough.

As far as your hubby goes, it is really crappy that he is blowing his kids off yet again. He should come get. The get. Them even if it interupts his little love nest. His kids are the reality! Your poor son's stability has been shaken. He is mad,angry,scared and he has two people that are his world and now they are angry with each other. I would videotape these outbursts. This is what happens when a kid doesn'tt see his dad anddoesn't understand what he did wrong his dad hasn't seen him all week. Tell your hubby he needs to talk to his son wiith you present and explain what is happening. Try to get documentation from his teachers he is acting out at school too. That way it is not hubby thinking you instigated it.

Writing for a nine year old will sometimes seem tedious. Go to walmart and buy him a toy punching bag and explain when he feels mad or upset he can hit it. It is ok, to hit the bag, but not sister or. Mommy. Let him show his sister how to hit the bag.. evena big drawing pad with markers. He. Can draw how he feels.

If you call hubby,he will think you are just trying to get attention from him.he is a jerk andit is all about his world. When he gets those papers, he will be mad you took control over the situation.all of his stupid excuses are going to fall around him in a flash,paying custody and bills will burst his bubble. Don't be suprised when he blames you cause he is unhappy.keep in mind,ya gave him what he asked for. I think he feels bad and guilty and justifies it by saying she is a witch,she doesn't take care of my needs, but he knows he never gave you any chances to fix thhose things nor. Did he attempt to fix your needs.he ran to. Fantasy land. Let him live in misery land while you move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> I have tried four times to write you last night and it never panned out. The MIL is in the fog with your hubby. He has. Lied to her,made you the villian and never gave you a chance. Figthting with her is useless. You have nothing to loose if you simply state the truth. Let's call a duck a duck,she won't like it,but who cares,she will be your ex soon enough.
> 
> As far as your hubby goes, it is really crappy that he is blowing his kids off yet again. He should come get. The get. Them even if it interupts his little love nest. His kids are the reality! Your poor son's stability has been shaken. He is mad,angry,scared and he has two people that are his world and now they are angry with each other. I would videotape these outbursts. This is what happens when a kid doesn'tt see his dad anddoesn't understand what he did wrong his dad hasn't seen him all week. Tell your hubby he needs to talk to his son wiith you present and explain what is happening. Try to get documentation from his teachers he is acting out at school too. That way it is not hubby thinking you instigated it.
> 
> Writing for a nine year old will sometimes seem tedious. Go to walmart and buy him a toy punching bag and explain when he feels mad or upset he can hit it. It is ok, to hit the bag, but not sister or. Mommy. Let him show his sister how to hit the bag.. evena big drawing pad with markers. He. Can draw how he feels.
> 
> If you call hubby,he will think you are just trying to get attention from him.he is a jerk andit is all about his world. When he gets those papers, he will be mad you took control over the situation.all of his stupid excuses are going to fall around him in a flash,paying custody and bills will burst his bubble. Don't be suprised when he blames you cause he is unhappy.keep in mind,ya gave him what he asked for. I think he feels bad and guilty and justifies it by saying she is a witch,she doesn't take care of my needs, but he knows he never gave you any chances to fix thhose things nor. Did he attempt to fix your needs.he ran to. Fantasy land. Let him live in misery land while you move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You always make me feel better.  I'm kind of low this morning. My last day with my kids before he sees them. Good idea on videotaping them both crying on the floor, didn't even think of that. I work with his teacher, so I could get her to write something. The kids are really hurting. 9 is plenty old enough to write, but yeah it's tedious, especially to a boy. He'd love the punching bag. He seemed angry but was taking it out on me, sort of. He couldn't express what he was feeling or why he was crying. He just laid on the floor in a ball with the blanket over him crying.  Broke my heart into even more pieces. Then my almost 3 year old daughter laid next to him and cried her eyes out. 

PI never got back to me and mistress is leaving today. Back to reality for him tomorrow when he goes to work and then picks up the kids after. I'm praying for self control when he comes to the house. It's going to be so tempting to say, "Hope you had fun with your mistress while you blew your kids off." He won't sit down and talk with our son in front of me. He can't even do it when they are alone. He has no idea what I've said to him. Or what our son has heard others saying. As much as I try to shield him from everything, he has ears like a hawk and is the biggest eavesdropper! 

Oh, and somehow it got back to his mom that I could see OW's posts through her. She deleted my fake account as a friend and even went as far to block it. Interesting. So she's definitely covering for him. He probably knows that I know. Today my check goes into my new bank account. I need to go take money out of H's check to cover daycare and groceries and filing for divorce. I have to get ahold of that lawyer still. Should I just call someone else? I want to get the ball rolling before I backtrack or he does it.


----------



## turnera

Call two or three lawyers; most will give you a free consultation.

Don't waste any breath talking to him OR his mom. What will it get you? Frustrated when it gets you nothing, that's what. They're both in the fog, they're on 'their side' and you're the enemy, so what's the point?

The BEST, #1 thing you can do from this point is act with dignity. Move forward, protect your children from his affair, be calm for your kids, document EVERYTHING (keep a notebook for your divorce court), and start taking out all the money you can from his check. Keep it in cash or gift cards so he can't find a paper trail and demand it back.



> turnera - you mean ignore him and his family? Don't tell him I know or anything? And what you're saying with the notebook is just notes on what was said and breakdowns, like a diary. Sending it back and forth?


Yes, this notebook I described yesterday would be for him to read up on what his kids have been doing all week. Mind, this is a long-term thing I'm talking about. 

You're in no mental position to DISCUSS the kids with him; every time you do, you'll make yourself look bad. Just write down a daily recap of what they did or said, and give him a weekly recap every week. 

Right now, he won't care, or he'll think you're manipulating him or trying to trick him back home or...whatever. Ignore what HE thinks or says. Haven't we told you over and over not to listen to a word he says? 

This is for your roles as parents. To be able to give your kids as much stability as possible. While he's high on PEA, he probably won't care. But you'll be setting a precedent of taking action to help your kids. Later, when he's come back down to earth, he'll appreciate it and be glad that you cared enough about the kids to keep him in the loop, and he'll probably (hopefully) start reciprocating so you'll know how they were with him.

A final benefit is that you're documenting in one place the effect his cheating is having on his own kids, for the judge.

Plus, using cozi.com to schedule their events is a way to coordinate without having to talk to him. Better all around. Plus more documentation that YOU have been putting the kids first. Any no-shows, document it on cozi. Let him see the no-shows piling up; maybe it will jog the dad in him.

Because, after all, at this point, the KIDS' well-being is the #1 goal now. Right?


----------



## Jellybeans

Why do you have a fake account on FB? Stop doing these things, girl. 

As for your kids, I wouldn't call him everytime they are crying unless they ask to speak to him. Maybe you could tell their teacher & counselor at school to be on the lookout since they are both going through a difficult/life-changing time in their lives.



LonelyNLost said:


> I'm praying for self control when he comes to the house. It's going to be so tempting to say, "Hope you had fun with your mistress while you blew your kids off."


Please, for the love of God and everything good, do not do this. You will come across as weak, desperate, and grasping at any straw you can have and this will tell him you are crazy, can't let it go, can't live w/o him. Do you want to convey that message?

Act cool. Only discuss the children. Be myseterious. NO asking him about his weekend or his hag or anything, OK?

Re: Lawyers--if you want to call another one, you could do that. But I wouldn't drag out things too long before making a move. Who knows what this weekend spending time with the hag did to him. He could clean out your account tomorrow and file for divorce for all you know and you'd be left w/...pics from the PI and wondering why you didn't take action sooner.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> The BEST, #1 thing you can do from this point is act with dignity. Move forward, protect your children from his affair, be calm for your kids, document EVERYTHING (keep a notebook for your divorce court), and start taking out all the money you can from his check. Keep it in cash or gift cards so he can't find a paper trail and demand it back.
> 
> Yes, this notebook I described yesterday would be for him to read up on what his kids have been doing all week. Mind, this is a long-term thing I'm talking about.
> 
> You're in no mental position to DISCUSS the kids with him; every time you do, you'll make yourself look bad. Just write down a daily recap of what they did or said, and give him a weekly recap every week.
> 
> A final benefit is that you're documenting in one place the effect his cheating is having on his own kids, for the judge.
> 
> Plus, using cozi.com to schedule their events is a way to coordinate without having to talk to him. Better all around. Plus more documentation that YOU have been putting the kids first. Any no-shows, document it on cozi. Let him see the no-shows piling up; maybe it will jog the dad in him.
> 
> Because, after all, at this point, the KIDS' well-being is the #1 goal now. Right?


Yes, you'd think the kids' well being would be number 1, but he doesn't seem to think that way right now, even though it IS what he SAYS. 

The documenting seems like a good idea but goodness it would be a lot of work. I guess once you get in the habit. And only writing things that pertain to him and the kids and the situation, right? Do I tell him things we did and such? Because I don't feel like he deserves to know what we've been doing, that seems like a consequence of leaving. If the kids want to tell him, that's fine. I would just be afraid that he would keep it and not return it. I will check out that website. 





Jellybeans said:


> Why do you have a fake account on FB? Stop doing these things, girl.
> 
> As for your kids, I wouldn't call him everytime they are crying unless they ask to speak to him. Maybe you could tell their teacher & counselor at school to be on the lookout since they are both going through a difficult/life-changing time in their lives.
> 
> Please, for the love of God and everything good, do not do this. You will come across as weak, desperate, and grasping at any straw you can have and this will tell him you are crazy, can't let it go, can't live w/o him. Do you want to convey that message?
> 
> Act cool. Only discuss the children. Be myseterious. NO asking him about his weekend or his hag or anything, OK?
> 
> Re: Lawyers--if you want to call another one, you could do that. But I wouldn't drag out things too long before making a move. Who knows what this weekend spending time with the hag did to him. He could clean out your account tomorrow and file for divorce for all you know and you'd be left w/...pics from the PI and wondering why you didn't take action sooner.


His check went into the account this morning and he took out $100 cash. He is in town. I just called the PI and they hadn't sent anyone out! Geez. Freaking incompetent, I guess. Her flight leaves around 3pm, why wouldn't they have already been there?! I don't think I'll be getting anything from them. I do want to get on the filing thing, I will try to call the lawyer right now. 

My fake account on facebook was an old made up profile that H and I used when we used to do farmville. I don't use it for anything. My daughter is only 2, but the daycare tells me things she says, like "My daddy doesn't love me" and things like that. My son goes to my school, so I have almost daily contact with his teacher so she knows the whole story and tells me when he is acting out. 

I get that I shouldn't say anything to him, but it's so damn hard. But it would be funny to walk the kids out all dressed up and then not say anything to him about it, especially when he's stressing and thinking I know. I just want to tell him I sent him an email regarding the phone calls (especially since again, he didn't answer his phone OR call back last night). I'm putting that in his court. But I'll walk them out and be in his face as much as I want. Just let him sweat, but I won't say anything. You know, I've never contacted OW or emailed her or anything. Just called her phone and let it ring twice and became facebook friends with her for a short time before I deleted her when she blocked me from her wall. I've got so much to say to her! Will I ever get that opportunity?! Or is it enough that she's sitting around waiting for that to happen?


----------



## Jellybeans

Why tell him anything about the phone calls? he already knows you called him and he decided not to answer. 

Stop digging a hole, Lonely. He knows he's having an affair and doesn't care. It would be best if you didn't ask him what he did, with whom, why and tell him you know the truth. He doesn't care and neither should you. Everytime you show any sort of interest or disdain towards him, you are giving him ALL of your power. 

You keep saying "it's so hard" not to say something or do something but it's really NOT hard. Detach yourself. Do it. Stop worrying about OW and what to say to her and whatnot. She also doesn't care. Clearly if she had any respect for you or the marriage, she wouldn't be boffing your husband in public.

She is a hag. He is a loser.

Let go.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Why tell him anything about the phone calls? he already knows you called him and he decided not to answer.
> 
> Stop digging a hole, Lonely. He knows he's having an affair and doesn't care. It would be best if you didn't ask him what he did, with whom, why and tell him you know the truth. He doesn't care and neither should you. Everytime you show any sort of interest or disdain towards him, you are giving him ALL of your power.
> 
> You keep saying "it's so hard" not to say something or do something but it's really NOT hard. Detach yourself. Do it. Stop worrying about OW and what to say to her and whatnot. She also doesn't care. Clearly if she had any respect for you or the marriage, she wouldn't be boffing your husband in public.
> 
> She is a hag. He is a loser.
> 
> Let go.


I have to tell him something about the phone calls because when I initiated the visitation schedule he agreed to, I said whomever has the kids shall have them call the other parent as close to 8pm as possible. He agreed. However, it's become difficult and the kids don't always want to talk to him. So I need to tell him that if the other parent wants to call, they call. This will show the kids that he cares enough to call them, not that mom makes them call dad because she has to. KWIM? I guess I don't have to say anything except, "I sent you an email." 

He probably withdrew that money and then went, "Oh crap, where's her paycheck?" So I think he's about to figure out that I'm moving on and protecting myself. I made an appt with that lawyer next Wednesday. She's going to call me today and tell me what I need. I think I'm going to go sell some gold for some extra cash. I'll hang onto my wedding band and engagement ring for now, but the promise ring and all the other things are G.O.N.E. It's going to be a race to get to the bank today. His check was like $955, and he took $100. Daycare is $300. How much should I take? And he'll ask so do I tell him I took to pay bills? I'm not a boat rocker remember, and I'm about to tip the boat over with this.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> Yes, you'd think the kids' well being would be number 1, but he doesn't seem to think that way right now, even though it IS what he SAYS.


Uh...I was talking about YOU!

You would think YOUR #1 goal was protecting the children, but here we have who knows how many pages all about him and O*****.

Even AFTER you've said (multiple times) that you were done.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> And only writing things that pertain to him and the kids and the situation, right?


Yep.



> Do I tell him things we did and such? Because I don't feel like he deserves to know what we've been doing, that seems like a consequence of leaving.


Nope, none of his business now.



> If the kids want to tell him, that's fine. I would just be afraid that he would keep it and not return it. I will check out that website.


That's why I said give him a COPY. YOUR copy is for your divorce records.



> My daughter is only 2, but the daycare tells me things she says, like "My daddy doesn't love me" and things like that.


Exactly what would go in the book.



> I get that I shouldn't say anything to him, but it's so damn hard.


There's your need to win again, taking over for your common sense.



> But it would be funny to walk the kids out all dressed up and then not say anything to him about it, especially when he's stressing and thinking I know. I just want to tell him I sent him an email regarding the phone calls (especially since again, he didn't answer his phone OR call back last night). I'm putting that in his court. But I'll walk them out and be in his face as much as I want. Just let him sweat, but I won't say anything. You know, I've never contacted OW or emailed her or anything. Just called her phone and let it ring twice and became facebook friends with her for a short time before I deleted her when she blocked me from her wall. I've got so much to say to her! Will I ever get that opportunity?! Or is it enough that she's sitting around waiting for that to happen?


Another entire musing about how you can MAKE HIM do what you want - notice you and sweat.

Are you done, or not?


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I have to tell him something about the phone calls because when I initiated the visitation schedule he agreed to, I said whomever has the kids shall have them call the other parent as close to 8pm as possible.


No, you don't.

You're just clutching at yet another reason to contact him so he can tell you he made a mistake and wants to come home. 

If HE wants to know, he'll call.



> His check was like $955, and he took $100. Daycare is $300. How much should I take? And he'll ask so do I tell him I took to pay bills? I'm not a boat rocker remember, and I'm about to tip the boat over with this.


 You take $855.

And if he contacts you (HE contacts YOU), you reply "I'm paying the bills to support our children."

That is ALL you say. Can you try to control yourself, or do you need a rubber band on your wrist to snap or something?


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> No, you don't.
> 
> You're just clutching at yet another reason to contact him so he can tell you he made a mistake and wants to come home.
> 
> If HE wants to know, he'll call.
> 
> You take $855.
> 
> And if he contacts you (HE contacts YOU), you reply "I'm paying the bills to support our children."
> 
> That is ALL you say. Can you try to control yourself, or do you need a rubber band on your wrist to snap or something?


I don't need to tell him I am changing what we agreed upon? I think that's common courtesy, although he won't like it either way. I don't want him to come home. Honestly, if he came crying back I'd tell him to F off. I'm grasping at straws for him to show me I'm worth something, but I have accepted that won't happen. So I'm going to proceed that way. I can be secure in myself without him.

If I left him NO money, he'd flip. He'd probably come to the house and then find the locks changed and break a window or something. I can't take it all. 

But I did laugh at the rubber band comment, lol.


----------



## turnera

You said he only takes $100. So why leave more? HE chose to leave you.

Why can you not email him about the calls?


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## Jellybeans

I won't advise you one way or another on how much $ to take but as we've all said multiple times: only discuss children with him and dont' talk to him about anything else. Protect yourself. He is plotting. Trust me.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> You said he only takes $100. So why leave more? HE chose to leave you.
> 
> Why can you not email him about the calls?


No, he TOOK (as in this morning) $100, probably to take his girlfriend to lunch or something before she left. He still needs money for gas. And I was planning on emailing him about the phone calls. But I was going to let him know I sent an email. Guess it's not necessary.



Jellybeans said:


> I won't advise you one way or another on how much $ to take but as we've all said multiple times: only discuss children with him and dont' talk to him about anything else. Protect yourself. He is plotting. Trust me.


I'm going in a little bit. I might take a good chunk of it. Don't talk about divorce or mediators or anything, right?!


----------



## KathyGriffinFan

Jellybeans said:


> Why do you have a fake account on FB? Stop doing these things, girl.


:iagree:


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I'm going in a little bit. I might take a good chunk of it. Don't talk about divorce or mediators or anything, right?!


A big fat NO to this. 

Lonely, I love ya but I am THISCLOSE to slapping you upside the head (virtually). 

Which part of "Only discuss co-parenting with him" did you not understand?

DO NOT SHOW HIM tell him anything about you interviewing/hiring/seeing a lawyer/mediation, etc. NADA.

It's like when you play Poker (or Uno, in my case) with your friends/family---do you turn your cards around to show them what you have?????

Only a crazy person does that!!! 

In the case where HE mentions mediation/lawyers, you tell him: "Let me think about that and I will get back to you." AND THEN WALK AWAY!


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> A big fat NO to this.
> 
> Lonely, I love ya but I am THISCLOSE to slapping you upside the head (virtually).
> 
> Which part of "Only discuss co-parenting with him" did you not understand?
> 
> DO NOT SHOW HIM tell him anything about you interviewing/hiring/seeing a lawyer/mediation, etc. NADA.
> 
> It's like when you play Poker (or Uno, in my case) with your friends/family---do you turn your cards around to show them what you have?????
> 
> Only a crazy person does that!!!
> 
> In the case where HE mentions mediation/lawyers, you tell him: "Let me think about that and I will get back to you." AND THEN WALK AWAY!


As soon as he notices your cheque not in account, he'll clean you out. Whoever gets to it first wins.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

golfergirl said:


> As soon as he notices your cheque not in account, he'll clean you out. Whoever gets to it first wins.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I totally agree, Golf. And if she tells him she has hired a lawyer...forget it. He will do it first. He seems the type.


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> I totally agree, Golf. And if she tells him she has hired a lawyer...forget it. He will do it first. He seems the type.


I agree - great minds lol. The first he'd know I hired a lawyer would be when he is served.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24

I am going to take flack for this, but here goes. I would not take his entire check. That will send even more red flags. Out of 855.00,I would take 350.00 out. Buy your gift cards. If he asks,where is your check, I had bills to pay,groceries to buy, gas to put in the car..... then later in the week take out another 100.00 so it looks casual. When he gets those divorce papers,which I am sure your lawyer will give a heads up just prior to servinghim,then I would take out a larger amount as that will be the last of it until the basics are agreed upon.

Even have the two year old child's caregiver write things down and give him a copy.it is important to write on the sheet copy given to father and date. This will tick him off,but hey you are keeping him informed.

Now, the meeting will happen,he will be just waiting to pounce. Don't give him the satisfaction.walk the kids out,give them a hug and kiss and say have fun with daddy! Walk off,he will be like WTF! Make sure you are dressed like you are going out on the town,wear his favorite perfume. Let get a wiff of what he is missing. You are. Now on a total and complete mission. You are fighting for you and your kids future. You alreadyy read the ending to his story, you read it last night. He is expecting a fight, don't even give him the time of day. Anyything. Else you need to tell him, write it down in a formal manner. Joe, little betsy needs. Tylenol at 6, little Joe has been coughing, you will need to pick up Motrin cough and cold and give him a teaspoon at bedtime. I finished the last of my supply. This morning(never and I mean never bu supplies for the kids for him. This is a consequence of not having the mother of his kids around. Prescriptions are differnt though. Little Joe's teacher had some concerns, I gave you a copy of the note I received.done. no more

The reason he is not telling your son anything is because it makes him look like an a-- to his kid.. man up buddy, your kid is having trouble coping. You should be there because you both need to show little. Joe that you are still there for him. When dad does not show, don't sugar coat it,also don't say he is out with the. Skank. Just say, I am sorry you can not see dad right now,but I am here and we can spend time together.
Eventually your son will see the truth.

Don't tell him you are disappointed either. Makes you come off desperate. He made his choices, let Karma bite his butt now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

It was my understanding that you have been using all but $100 of his check each week already, right? Did I misunderstand that?


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## LonelyNLost

Previously, both of our checks went into the account, and I was left to deal with figuring out how to pay bills since it's pretty tight. He never said or checked on anything. He just spent as needed, nothing extravagant (except the $420 tattoo) just gas and food for the most part. I don't really spend anything extra. I pay bills and feed the kids, no luxuries. 

What I did, was got a $300 cashier's check to pay daycare. Then I took $200 cash. Then I went to the grocery store and got a few groceries and a $140 gift card for the grocery store. So, that left him with like $130 on top of the $100 he already took. I still don't know how I'm going to pay the bills. I went and paid the mortgage with $730 of my paycheck and the $200 cash. I have a few hundred dollars left to pay utilities and things. 

The lawyer wants $1800 up front and filing is weird. If one person files without the other person agreeing to something beforehand, it is automatically a contested divorce. That's why he keeps asking me to go to mediation. She said if I come in and pay her $900 she'd do the first part, which is laying out what I want. She sends him a letter that says I want this and that, and that he has X number of days to respond. It also says if he doesn't respond then we'd go with the usual channels, contested divorce. But that gets expensive. She said he probably hasn't filed because he wants it to be uncontested and us to agree on things. She said I can just wait it out because he probably won't file because he'd have to do it himself and that's usually a mess. SO, really I don't know what to do. I have to see if I'll be able to get enough money together. 

After last night and him not answering when I called and then not calling the kids, I don't think I'll call tonight. Might start WWIII but I'm not in the mood. I'm surprised he hasn't realized the money is wiped out and b!tched me out. I am not in a good mood. I am dealing with too much stress and it's taking its toll. 

And Jelly, I was just checking, and I was going to ask you how to handle it if he brought it up again. Does everyone think I should walk the kids out? Most of the time he stands at the end of the driveway and I just let them walk out.


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## DelinquentGurl

Just a comment here...I actually do wear a rubber band around my wrist and snap it every time I am tempted to do something stupid or think a negative thought.

It really does help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

That's why I suggested it. Time-tested method.

He can call if he wants the kids. He knows your number.


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## LonelyNLost

I'm kind of back to square one with the divorce now. You can't really "do it yourself" and just go file on your own. And if I go and pay the lawyer the $1800, there's no guarantee he'll be okay with what I want. Since we aren't talking, I'd just have to do it, she'd send the notice of retainer letter to him and I guess that'd be almost as good as being served. He would know it would be contested if he didn't agree or negotiate. We don't have money for all this. But I can't be in this marriage anymore, he's broken his vows and doesn't give a sh!t about me. I deserve better. I guess he feels stuck right now because I won't go to a mediator with him to come up with terms before we file. Stalemate.

I guess it's REAL once I do this. More of my friends are finding out and their jaws drop to the floor. No one can believe this happened to US. Sad, really. If my friends have a hard time believing it, imagine what his family and friends think. They'd never believe he was a cheating bastard! Who cares, I know the truth, he knows the truth, and he isn't worth my time.


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## LonelyNLost

SOS SOS SOS! 

She actually posted a picture of them together as her profile picture. Can you believe that?! 

Now, I've never totally made my situation known to all my family and friends. Just the ones that ask. My mom thinks I should take their picture, post it to my facebook wall with the caption "For those of you wondering what happened between H and I. Here is your answer..."

I'm sitting on this for 24 hours. I am so upset by it all. Is she that blatant? Or has he been lying to her? Or what?


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## DelinquentGurl

Lonely,

Take the high road in this. Don't post that picture on your FB. Don't even look at her FB, your making this harder on yourself.

The more you look, the worse you are going to feel.

Why do that to yourself?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

I know I shouldn't. I am so torn. His best friend just told me that H is mad at him, because H posted a pic of them together on his facebook (which is blocked from anyone associated with me). The best friend said something to him and he was like, "what, I'm just moving on" and the friend said, "you aren't supposed to move on with old failed relationships." H is mad at him now.


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## Jellybeans

Don't post the pic. Let him dig his own grave. I would file asap if I were you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> Don't post the pic. Let him dig his own grave. I would file asap if I were you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Did PI turn up anything? Does he offer money back guarantee for being such an idiot? He didn't follow right people and forgot to dispatch someone out on last day. He should give you something back. It could go towards your lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

I have to call the PI and figure this all out. I don't know about a money back guarantee, but they have a license and I might threaten to report them if they don't give me my money back. I would love to know when she booked the plane ticket, though. They said they were going to try to access her credit cards. They failed in every aspect, never gave me any info. 

I was thinking about something. You know how her ex never really said much, so I left him alone? Well, he messaged me this morning saying, "Hey so what's going on? We're divorced now, so she can do whatever the f$ck she wants." I'm thinking he saw her profile picture and is curious if that's my husband, because I bet she said my previous messages to him were crap. Now he's thinking about it. 

H just picked up the kids. He won't even talk to me. He stood out side the door why I got their stuff ready. Then he told daughter to give me a hug goodbye. And then sent son back 3 times to get stuff. I did say to him "they haven't eaten" and he just asked back if they'd eaten. He's wearing his same new crappy 90's sunglasses that he has on in his pic with OW.


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## tamara24

Lonely,

How awful. He is a certified fruitcake. No, don't post the pic. Stay off of facebook,it only makes things worse. You have nothing to be ashamed about. You go out and hand over the kids with your head held high. If anybody should be uncomfortable it should be him. You are not in hiding, you jack a-- fo a husband should be digging his head in the sand.

IMO, there would be no way I would mediate with him. YOU tell him what you want. He created this mess and one of the consequences is that you don't get everything you want. You may nnot get everything you ask for either but don't budge on the things that are most important to you. Personally, I would go out , and hand him my worthless wedding ring. It would mean nothing to me at this point.

The trash is trying to get your reaction,don't play into it. Pretty soon, she can have what she wanted along with his bills, laundry, his real personality and she will get bored cause he won't have money to buy her things or take her out. Then she will move on to another clueless jerk to give her some excitement.

You need to be a class act. Even on the days you want to lay in bed and cry your eyes out. Grieve for the real man you lost and for your marraige. Then go get a bottle of sangria and think about how you are better off with this piece of scum out of yours and the kids life. If he wants to talk to his kids,let him call. He needs to make it up to the kids for being a jerk. You are not responsible for his feelings anymore. He didn't care about yours,don't. Worry about him,how. He is going to survive. That is his job now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

His mom is covering for him big time. Sad part is, she knows this is all BS. She knows more intimate details than most, and bought into my suspicions. She also has to know what he's been up to with HER. I'm not even going to reply. What is there to say? She's lying through her email, just like her son. 

_I haven't stopped caring about you or loving you, I just don't think it's a good idea for you and I to have a conversation right now. I know your angry and hurt, and I understand that. I also know if we converse you will express that anger. Things will be said that can never be taken back and I don't want either of us to base our future relationship on words said in anger. *** is my son and I love him. I don't want to hear anyone running him into the ground. I know he isn't perfect, none of us are, but what ever his faults may be, he is my son. I will defend him be it right or wrong. I will tell you that through out the time you've been separated *** has not said anything negative about you. I'm not telling you that in hopes that you rethink your current feelings for him, but because someday it may mean something to you. People grow apart and I'm sorry it has happened to both of you, but it has and I can't make it better. I am sorry, and I do love you._


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> His mom is covering for him big time. Sad part is, she knows this is all BS. She knows more intimate details than most, and bought into my suspicions. She also has to know what he's been up to with HER. I'm not even going to reply. What is there to say? She's lying through her email, just like her son.
> 
> _I haven't stopped caring about you or loving you, I just don't think it's a good idea for you and I to have a conversation right now. I know your angry and hurt, and I understand that. I also know if we converse you will express that anger. Things will be said that can never be taken back and I don't want either of us to base our future relationship on words said in anger. *** is my son and I love him. I don't want to hear anyone running him into the ground. I know he isn't perfect, none of us are, but what ever his faults may be, he is my son. I will defend him be it right or wrong. I will tell you that through out the time you've been separated *** has not said anything negative about you. I'm not telling you that in hopes that you rethink your current feelings for him, but because someday it may mean something to you. People grow apart and I'm sorry it has happened to both of you, but it has and I can't make it better. I am sorry, and I do love you._


If she didn't defend her son so much I'd be touched by her message but her and her son think alike - a lot of blameshifting. When my brother cheated we never covered for him nor defended him. He was always family but we openly disapproved. Don't even bother answering her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Send his MOM the picture and say "Thanks for covering for your son so he could cheat on me with his skank. Here's what they did this week."


----------



## turnera

See, this is where my stubbornness takes over. If my MIL said this to me, I would NOT let it lie. I would reply to her: 



LonelyNLost said:


> _*** is my son and I love him. I don't want to hear anyone running him into the ground. I know he isn't perfect, none of us are, but what ever his faults may be, he is my son. I will defend him be it right or wrong. I will tell you that through out the time you've been separated *** has not said anything negative about you. I'm not telling you that in hopes that you rethink your current feelings for him, but because someday it may mean something to you. People grow apart and I'm sorry it has happened to both of you, but it has and I can't make it better. I am sorry, and I do love you._


 MIL, I understand your need to defend your son. But you and I and everyone ELSE in your family knows he has chosen the dark side in this endeavour. What reason does he HAVE to say anything negative about me? It isn't ME who is cheating on her spouse and abandoning her own children so she can have a weeklong fling with an AFFAIR PARTNER. 

He has nothing negative to say about me because I have done nothing wrong. And you know it.

The only thing that means anything to me at this point is that you supported your son cheating on his wife and abandoning his children so he could have sex and play daddy with his new female of choice. YOU supported him destroying several lives. 

I will never forget THAT.


----------



## KathyGriffinFan

LonelyNLost said:


> SOS SOS SOS!
> 
> She actually posted a picture of them together as her profile picture. Can you believe that?!



Whatttttttttttttttt!! Even I wanna see the OW's facebook now. Link please. Lol!


----------



## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> How awful. He is a certified fruitcake. No, don't post the pic. Stay off of facebook,it only makes things worse. You have nothing to be ashamed about. You go out and hand over the kids with your head held high. If anybody should be uncomfortable it should be him. You are not in hiding, you jack a-- fo a husband should be digging his head in the sand.
> 
> IMO, there would be no way I would mediate with him. YOU tell him what you want. He created this mess and one of the consequences is that you don't get everything you want. You may nnot get everything you ask for either but don't budge on the things that are most important to you. Personally, I would go out , and hand him my worthless wedding ring. It would mean nothing to me at this point.
> 
> The trash is trying to get your reaction,don't play into it. Pretty soon, she can have what she wanted along with his bills, laundry, his real personality and she will get bored cause he won't have money to buy her things or take her out. Then she will move on to another clueless jerk to give her some excitement.
> 
> You need to be a class act. Even on the days you want to lay in bed and cry your eyes out. Grieve for the real man you lost and for your marraige. Then go get a bottle of sangria and think about how you are better off with this piece of scum out of yours and the kids life. If he wants to talk to his kids,let him call. He needs to make it up to the kids for being a jerk. You are not responsible for his feelings anymore. He didn't care about yours,don't. Worry about him,how. He is going to survive. That is his job now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The real man I married is gone. Funny you should say sangria, because that's what I was drinking last night as I sat here alone at home. I'm thankful for no hangover this morning.  I don't worry about him. He can jump off a cliff for all I care. It's my kids that I'm concerned about. The thought of them being around her makes me ill. All of it makes me ill. Especially his mother. Grrr.



turnera said:


> Send his MOM the picture and say "Thanks for covering for your son so he could cheat on me with his skank. Here's what they did this week.
> 
> See, this is where my stubbornness takes over. If my MIL said this to me, I would NOT let it lie. I would reply to her:
> 
> MIL, I understand your need to defend your son. But you and I and everyone ELSE in your family knows he has chosen the dark side in this endeavour. What reason does he HAVE to say anything negative about me? It isn't ME who is cheating on her spouse and abandoning her own children so she can have a weeklong fling with an AFFAIR PARTNER.
> 
> He has nothing negative to say about me because I have done nothing wrong. And you know it.
> 
> The only thing that means anything to me at this point is that you supported your son cheating on his wife and abandoning his children so he could have sex and play daddy with his new female of choice. YOU supported him destroying several lives.
> 
> I will never forget THAT.


Love it! I'm torn between replying and not replying. I never replied to the last one that was about her wanting us to both be happy and that might mean we can't be together. So I think I should reply to this one. I'm never going to have a relationship with this woman. She's out of her mind. They've lost me forever. I hope they are proud of what their son is...an adulterer. Sounds to me like she doesn't agree with some of his actions, but ultimately supports whatever makes him happy with no regard for who is destroyed in the process.

That skank took down the photo last night and put up a photo of an alligator, but now the photo is back up. 

And you know whatever I send to her she'll show to him. So he'll know what I know. Should I add anything about how great it will look in court when I show that he chose to see his affair partner instead of visit with his kids for an entire week?


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> The real man I married is gone. Funny you should say sangria, because that's what I was drinking last night as I sat here alone at home. I'm thankful for no hangover this morning.  I don't worry about him. He can jump off a cliff for all I care. It's my kids that I'm concerned about. The thought of them being around her makes me ill. All of it makes me ill. Especially his mother. Grrr.
> 
> 
> 
> Love it! I'm torn between replying and not replying. I never replied to the last one that was about her wanting us to both be happy and that might mean we can't be together. So I think I should reply to this one. I'm never going to have a relationship with this woman. She's out of her mind. They've lost me forever. I hope they are proud of what their son is...an adulterer. Sounds to me like she doesn't agree with some of his actions, but ultimately supports whatever makes him happy with no regard for who is destroyed in the process.
> 
> That skank took down the photo last night and put up a photo of an alligator, but now the photo is back up.
> 
> And you know whatever I send to her she'll show to him. So he'll know what I know. Should I add anything about how great it will look in court when I show that he chose to see his affair partner instead of visit with his kids for an entire week?


Take print screen of it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Take print screen of it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, I did. And get this! HE MADE IT HIS PROFILE PICTURE, TOO! And my kids are with him. Holy crap. WTF is wrong with him? No respect. I'm having a hard time not blowing this up to everyone and b!tching him out.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Oh, I did. And get this! HE MADE IT HIS PROFILE PICTURE, TOO! And my kids are with him. Holy crap. WTF is wrong with him? No respect. I'm having a hard time not blowing this up to everyone and b!tching him out.


Biggest revenge is you don't give a tiny hairy rat's ass. Don't even dignify it with a reaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BIP

LonelyNLost said:


> Oh, I did. And get this! HE MADE IT HIS PROFILE PICTURE, TOO! And my kids are with him. Holy crap. WTF is wrong with him? No respect. I'm having a hard time not blowing this up to everyone and b!tching him out.


Golfergirl is right. DON'T react or respond . . . although it would be PRETTY funny is you made it YOUR profile pic as well.


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## KathyGriffinFan

Link me, lolllllllllllllllllllll. I wanna see what the skank looks likes. LMAO.


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## KathyGriffinFan

BIP said:


> Golfergirl is right. DON'T react or respond . . . although it would be PRETTY funny is you made it YOUR profile pic as well.


:rofl: Oh sh-t, that would be funny!


----------



## LonelyNLost

BIP said:


> Golfergirl is right. DON'T react or respond . . . although it would be PRETTY funny is you made it YOUR profile pic as well.


Haha, I did think about doing that. And before doing so, I photoshop some labels onto the pic that say "Husband" and "Not Me". :rofl: His mom blocked my mom on facebook, too, which is weird because it's not like my mom has contacted her or anything. She's so covering for my husband, it's ridiculous. 

My mom couldn't stand it and sent him a text that said, "The truth always reveals itself" and he came back with like 18 texts before she could even respond. They were all about how people are judging him and hate him and that he's done nothing wrong, but he has faults, and people should forgive him, and that he's accepted his marriage failed, be it his fault or not, but most people go through this. And that if it helps to sling him through the mud then so be it, and the truth is what we want it to be, and I'm sorry, and sometimes love doesn't last forever or isn't enough, and he's moving on. Blah Blah Blah. So my mom responded after he sent about 8 texts containing "I'm sorry" she said "The truth will set you free." And then he tried to get religious on her (She's religious, but he is SOOO not) and say that God doesn't judge so no one else should and he isn't perfect but he's sorry we grew apart and our marriage crumbled. He's accepted it. He goes on about how I'm an amazing person and he'd never say a bad thing about me to anyone, and then she responded that worse than saying a bad thing are his actions and posting a picture of himself with another woman. And he said he'll post a picture of whoever he wants because he's moving on. 

He's ridiculous. He's completely convinced himself that everyone hates him for no reason, and that we just grew apart and it's okay for him to give up and move on with someone else. Does he think adulterers are these people that are happy in their marriages and they find someone else too? He's in denial. My mom just said that he should confess and then everyone could move forward and he could be forgiven. He's going to the grave with the truth. We grew apart because someone grew in between us! The whole thing is disgusting. But you'd be proud of me, I stayed out of it. And I told my mom to let it be. 

I also started emailing with this guy on a dating website. I'm not ready to go dating and all that, I'll wait until my divorce is in the works, but I'll talk to people. The guy texted me and he hadn't told me his name, so he texted and said "Hey LnL, this is _____, and you need move on, get ur mind off that crap and enjoy ur life. You don't need all that. Have fun adn the rest will fall into place. Ignore him and he'll see what he missed out on and regret it later. But you can't this keep you down." And it freaked me out because he has the same name as my H. So at first I thought it was H texting me from another number telling me to move on. So funny! But he's right. I guess if I hear it from enough people it will sink in.


----------



## LonelyNLost

KathyGriffinFan said:


> Link me, lolllllllllllllllllllll. I wanna see what the skank looks likes. LMAO.


I PM'd you, did you get it?


----------



## BIP

LonelyNLost said:


> They were all about how people are judging him and hate him and that he's done nothing wrong, but he has faults, and people should forgive him, and that he's accepted his marriage failed, be it his fault or not, but most people go through this.


Take solace in the knowledge that he will NEVER have a successful relationship because he refuses to acknowledge that he's done anything wrong, and therefore, will continue to make the same mistakes. He will blame, he will run away, and he will die a lonely and lost man. Meanwhile you will work on yourself, take your share of the responsibility for the failure, and come out healthy. I think there is something about forgiveness, too, but how do you offer that when he admits to no wrong doing??

I am, frankly, caught in the blame game with my H. I need to take a little of my own advice, remind myself that I allowed things to get this bad, accept responsibility. Then I can b**** about his lying, cheating, drunken habits!


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I PM'd you, did you get it?


Me too me too! I wanna see her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## KathyGriffinFan

LonelyNLost said:


> I PM'd you, did you get it?


Yeah, got it. What a skank.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> Sounds to me like she doesn't agree with some of his actions, but ultimately supports whatever makes him happy with no regard for who is destroyed in the process.


Which is exactly why many cheaters believe they can in the first place - their parents raised them to think...whatever makes me happy.


> And you know whatever I send to her she'll show to him. So he'll know what I know. Should I add anything about how great it will look in court when I show that he chose to see his affair partner instead of visit with his kids for an entire week?


Good! LET her show her son; let him have to scramble to explain to his mom how he screwed up cos his d*ck controlled his brain. 

I may not add anything about court. They seem stupid enough to not realize he's digging a hole. Let them dig it as large as possible


----------



## turnera

Ask your mom, since his guilt is driving him crazy so much so that he feels he HAS to get your mom to stop judging him, to send him a professional description of what an affair is. 

No judgment attached, just a description.

Leave it at that.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Ask your mom, since his guilt is driving him crazy so much so that he feels he HAS to get your mom to stop judging him, to send him a professional description of what an affair is.
> 
> No judgment attached, just a description.
> 
> Leave it at that.


I was thinking I'd love for him to see that post by decimated, called "I want to have an affair"


----------



## anx

Infatuation always wears off and they will stop treating eachother on their 100% best behavior. Real life will kick in for him. The first few months of dating or an affair are easy.


----------



## LonelyNLost

So, her ex is now messaging me on facebook. He wants to know if I'm 100% sure they were involved since mid-October. I guess he's now putting two and two together. Or maybe he saw their sickening profile pics together. Who knows?! I told him I had lots of reasons to be suspicious, but I don't want to give him all my dirt since last time he ran to her with it. 



BIP said:


> Take solace in the knowledge that he will NEVER have a successful relationship because he refuses to acknowledge that he's done anything wrong, and therefore, will continue to make the same mistakes. He will blame, he will run away, and he will die a lonely and lost man. Meanwhile you will work on yourself, take your share of the responsibility for the failure, and come out healthy. I think there is something about forgiveness, too, but how do you offer that when he admits to no wrong doing??


I totally agree. I've even said this to him. Relationships and marriages are not about growing apart, they are about sticking together and learning how to be a better partner. If your marriage fails and you hop right into another relationship with the same set of tools, you get the same results. Therefore, you're destined for failure. His retort? "Your second marriage will fail too!" Real mature. And funny you should mention forgiveness. In his text tirade with my mom he had the nerve to say something about God and forgiveness, and my mom just said, "You must confess and ask for forgiveness in order to get it." And he still sticks to "I've done nothing wrong!" Lost cause. 




turnera said:


> Which is exactly why many cheaters believe they can in the first place - their parents raised them to think...whatever makes me happy.
> Good! LET her show her son; let him have to scramble to explain to his mom how he screwed up cos his d*ck controlled his brain.
> 
> I may not add anything about court. They seem stupid enough to not realize he's digging a hole. Let them dig it as large as possible


I haven't responded to her. It will obviously do no good. But I do need to let her know what it is that I'm angry about. And it isn't that my marriage didn't work out. It's the way it's been handled, with dishonesty and deceit. If the story he tells were true, we just grew apart, then why all the anger and hostility and lies? Why all the hiding? Why has OW blocked me and anyone that posts on my wall from seeing hers? Why has he done the same, including blocking some of his closest friends and relatives from his wall? Nothing to hide? I doubt it.




anx said:


> Infatuation always wears off and they will stop treating eachother on their 100% best behavior. Real life will kick in for him. The first few months of dating or an affair are easy.


Yeah, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Now that they are out in the open, we'll see what happens. Not sure how the factors play into this, like the high school sweetheart thing so now they are replaying their youth. And the long distance part of it. And well, no reality for him. He's reliving his youth down to living with mommy and daddy and not paying any bills. He just works and comes home and talks to her on the phone after his mom cooks him dinner and washes his laundry.  And he gets to play with his kids every few days.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> So, her ex is now messaging me on facebook. He wants to know if I'm 100% sure they were involved since mid-October. I guess he's now putting two and two together. Or maybe he saw their sickening profile pics together. Who knows?! I told him I had lots of reasons to be suspicious, but I don't want to give him all my dirt since last time he ran to her with it.
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree. I've even said this to him. Relationships and marriages are not about growing apart, they are about sticking together and learning how to be a better partner. If your marriage fails and you hop right into another relationship with the same set of tools, you get the same results. Therefore, you're destined for failure. His retort? "Your second marriage will fail too!" Real mature. And funny you should mention forgiveness. In his text tirade with my mom he had the nerve to say something about God and forgiveness, and my mom just said, "You must confess and ask for forgiveness in order to get it." And he still sticks to "I've done nothing wrong!" Lost cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't responded to her. It will obviously do no good. But I do need to let her know what it is that I'm angry about. And it isn't that my marriage didn't work out. It's the way it's been handled, with dishonesty and deceit. If the story he tells were true, we just grew apart, then why all the anger and hostility and lies? Why all the hiding? Why has OW blocked me and anyone that posts on my wall from seeing hers? Why has he done the same, including blocking some of his closest friends and relatives from his wall? Nothing to hide? I doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Now that they are out in the open, we'll see what happens. Not sure how the factors play into this, like the high school sweetheart thing so now they are replaying their youth. And the long distance part of it. And well, no reality for him. He's reliving his youth down to living with mommy and daddy and not paying any bills. He just works and comes home and talks to her on the phone after his mom cooks him dinner and washes his laundry.  And he gets to play with his kids every few days.


How are kids since visit?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> How are kids since visit?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've only seen my son for a few minutes this morning before school. He seems happy. Didn't say much. I'll see my daughter after school today. 

On a side note, we had an employee appreciation breakfast with a pinata. I was nominated to beat the heck out of it. That was F.U.N. fun!


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I've only seen my son for a few minutes this morning before school. He seems happy. Didn't say much. I'll see my daughter after school today.
> 
> On a side note, we had an employee appreciation breakfast with a pinata. I was nominated to beat the heck out of it. That was F.U.N. fun!


Was it shaped like a Vegas skank?lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Was it shaped like a Vegas skank?lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl: Good one! I have to be getting over this and letting go, I'm able to laugh about it! It was shaped like a chili pepper. My principal said, "Just think about the angry parent email you got" and I said, "Nope, I'm thinking about my husband's face" and he was like "OKAY!" It was great stress relief. 

Good thing is, H did drop all the kids' stuff off, so he isn't going to try to go by the house. At least I think so. Not sure how he'll act when he realizes the locks are changed and he can't get in.


----------



## turnera

> I told him I had lots of reasons to be suspicious, but I don't want to give him all my dirt since last time he ran to her with it.


lol

Good for you!


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> lol
> 
> Good for you!


We will see if he writes back. He must have been checking out my page (well it's private so what he can see) because I had clicked "like" on a page called "I hate homewreckers" and I noticed he had recently "liked" it too. I think things might be starting to click for him. I don't know what he could do about finding out that she cheated now after the fact, but I don't want to end up subpoenaed or something, although a trip to Vegas would be fun.  I'd rather chat with him on the phone or something if he really wants to talk.


----------



## turnera

You need to get your lawyer stuff straight ASAP. No matter what happens.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> You need to get your lawyer stuff straight ASAP. No matter what happens.


Yeah, I know. I'm getting divorced. It sucks. But I took the high road this weekend on a lot of things, though I was really tempted to say something. He's the one that looks like an @ss, flaunting his new girlfriend on his facebook page. These are his choices and his to live with. Alone. I feel stronger each day. My mom sat and read me all the things that he said via text, and it all just solidifies my opinion of the situation. Yes, I was wronged, but it's out of my control. I can only control myself, and I'm moving forward. As soon as I have my $900 I can meet with that attorney and get the ball rolling. I'm hoping by early next week. 

And, I've been chatting with a couple guys I met on a dating website. Not that I'm looking for a relationship, but it's nice to talk to others with no expectations. I'm calling them distractions. One of the guys went through some pretty tough situations with his divorce and a subsequent relationship and he's been a great encouragement.


----------



## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> You need to get your lawyer stuff straight ASAP. No matter what happens.


This, first and foremost. If you get the $ back from the PI, you can use it for the lawyer. 

A lot has happened in your thread since I last checked so I will just post what I think:

Stop looking at his and her FB. We said that like 30 pages back. It IS funny he "liked" "I hate Homewreckers." He sounds like an idiot. Since you saw it already, keep a screenshot of the pic they posted and see if you can file on grounds of adultery if that is possible in FL. I would file asap if I were you. I do think it's also interesting how she put a pic of them up and then took it down and then put i back up. I bet she took it down because she realized, hello, I'm posting pics of me with a married man. Maybe he talked her out of it, who knows. They are both scum.

Your mother is always going to protect you, that is what mothers do. But I would tell her to stop contacting him. He already knows what he is doing is wrong. That is exactly why he's explaining himself away, saying you grew apart, trying to defend the reprehensible with silly little excuses. He KNOWS. And so does Vegas Skank. I wouldn't talk to him about it or t ohis mother or have your mother talk to him about it. If he brings it up to you, you can tell him, "You and I both know the truth and the truth is you were and still are having an affair when you moved out." I would caution you not to tell him this until you file for divorce though in case it sends him into a tizzy and he files first and then YOU find yourself on the receiving end of divoce papers having to defend yourself against him, the plaintiff. He knows he is doing something wrong by cheating/leaving his family. How long has he been moved out?

As for Ow's ex-husband--I would be honest with him. If he asks what facts you know, tell him. He is probably reeling from finding out they were involved in an affair and it probably played a part in the end of his marriage as well. Why cover up the affair? If he runs back to her telling her what a skank she is and how she is a cheater and liar, then good. She should have to deal with the consequences of her actions.


Re: his mother --she is always going to defend him. He is her son. Why did she send you that email? Was it out of hte blue or in response to something you sent her? If you like, you could tell her "You and I both know he is having an affair and abandoned me and his family to be with the other woman but I realize he is your son and you love and will defend him. I only ask that you and I can remain cordial with one another and you and grandpa are there for the kids, as they deserve the best through this most difficult and traumatic time in their lives."

Oh and you had mentioned a few times about filing and whatnot: You could file and he could agree to everything you ask for which would make it uncontested. If he doesn't, it will be uncontested BUT, rest assured 90% of the time, divorces reach a settlement before a final hearing date. And in this case, my guess is he won't want to go up against you since HE si in the wrong, HE is the one who abandoned his family, HE is the one who continues to have an affair. That does NOT look good to a judge. At all.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> This, first and foremost. If you get the $ back from the PI, you can use it for the lawyer.
> 
> A lot has happened in your thread since I last checked so I will just post what I think:
> 
> Stop looking at his and her FB. We said that like 30 pages back. It IS funny he "liked" "I hate Homewreckers." He sounds like an idiot. Since you saw it already, keep a screenshot of the pic they posted and see if you can file on grounds of adultery if that is possible in FL. I would file asap if I were you. I do think it's also interesting how she put a pic of them up and then took it down and then put i back up. I bet she took it down because she realized, hello, I'm posting pics of me with a married man. Maybe he talked her out of it, who knows. They are both scum.
> 
> Your mother is always going to protect you, that is what mothers do. But I would tell her to stop contacting him. He already knows what he is doing is wrong. That is exactly why he's explaining himself away, saying you grew apart, trying to defend the reprehensible with silly little excuses. He KNOWS. And so does Vegas Skank. I wouldn't talk to him about it or t ohis mother or have your mother talk to him about it. If he brings it up to you, you can tell him, "You and I both know the truth and the truth is you were having an affair when you moved out and nothing you say will change that fact." and then ignore him. Walk away. He knows. How long has he been moved out?
> 
> As for Ow's ex-husband--I would be honest with him. If he asks what facts you know, tell him. He is probably reeling from finding out they were involved in an affair and it probably played a part in the end of his marriage as well. Why cover up the affair? If he runs back to her telling her what a skank she is and how she is a cheater and liar, then good. She should have to deal with the consequences of her actions.


Yeah, I'll call the PI today. If he doesn't respond to me I'll have my friend call. She's awesome at getting refunds, LOL!

OW's ex is the one who "liked" I hate homewreckers.  I think he was totally clueless and just now figured things out. I just can't get a read on him. I don't know if he ran to her with that stuff before as a friend or as a pissed off stbx. You know? I'll talk to him, just didn't want to be the one spilling it all by fb message. 

I know I need to stop looking at their pages. And she's seriously blocked like all my family and friends that H would know about. She blocked my fake account I was using to see her page. Funny thing is, I'm the one who blocked her from my real account, so I can unblock it if I really wanted to see. Dummy! H even went as far to block my coworkers. But I have limitless friends, he couldn't go through and block all of them. Friends are appalled at him posting their pic. I'm hearing it from them. I feel better today. I really do. He is obviously going to do what he's going to do with no regard for me. I've accepted that.

My mom has stayed out of it, she was just really discussed by the pic. She did pretty good considering how much she wanted to say. I told her to leave it alone and then I hung up and when I did that he was still texting. I live 3 hours away, so can't really control much. But I did tell her to leave it alone. You're right about the justifying and over-explaining, it's exactly what I felt. He's trying to convince himself. I haven't said anything to him about knowing of his escapade or the pictures. 

He moved out (well did the weeklong leaving at night thing and coming in the morning, then the following week I was out of town) March 4th. After one week of real separation we had that blowup on March 25th. And that's when he said he was done. And according to his "4 weeks ago" timeline, he started "talking" to her that same week. Even that's crappola. You don't move on that quick with someone who lives 2500 miles away and if your marriage just "grew apart". Have some respect for the love of Pete! I won't be ready to get into a relationship for a long while. By the second week of April, we were negotiating visitation by email and they already had plans for her to come for Easter because he told me he couldn't get the kids on the 28th. Who is he fooling?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Re: his mother --she is always going to defend him. He is her son. Why did she send you that email? Was it out of hte blue or in response to something you sent her? If you like, you could tell her "You and I both know he is having an affair and abandoned me and his family to be with the other woman but I realize he is your son and you love and will defend him. I only ask that you and I can remain cordial with one another and you and grandpa are there for the kids, as they deserve the best through this most difficult and traumatic time in their lives."
> 
> Oh and you had mentioned a few times about filing and whatnot: You could file and he could agree to everything you ask for which would make it uncontested. If he doesn't, it will be uncontested BUT, rest assured 90% of the time, divorces reach a settlement before a final hearing date. And in this case, my guess is he won't want to go up against you since HE si in the wrong, HE is the one who abandoned his family, HE is the one who continues to have an affair. That does NOT look good to a judge. At all.


I kind of flipped on Saturday when I saw her post that pic of them, and I tried to call his mom one last time, but it went to voicemail. I just said, like almost on the verge of tears, that it hurts to be stonewalled and shut out like this when I've done nothing wrong. And that I feel betrayed that she'd support this and even cover it up." So she emailed me. I do like what you wrote, straightforward and to the point. And not as harsh as turnera's suggestion. Kind of in the middle. 

With the filing, the lawyer charges by contested or uncontested. That's where the big difference comes in. I'd love to just go and smack him with divorce papers being served, but I think the best case here is for me to have the lawyer send him the notice of retainer stating what I'd like. He'll probably be ecstatic that I am moving towards divorce.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Oh, and my guess on her posting the pic and then taking it down? I think she posted it, and he got on her. She then whined and said, "Are you not proud of me? Are you embarrassed by me? I thought your marriage was over!" and then he felt bad and just posted it and said whatever. Who knows. He had posted it to his facebook wall and caught flack from his friends. 

I still think it would be funny to post their pic as my profile pic and label him "husband" and her "not me". haha.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> OW's ex is the one who "liked" I hate homewreckers.
> 
> *
> I know I need to stop looking at their pages.*




That is even stupider and funnier that the OW is the one who was liking "I Hate Homewreckers." What a douche. 

As for his mom. Please stop calling her. She has nothing to do with the fact he is stepping out on you. That is his choice completely. Calling her isn't going to change anything. If you like though, you can tell her what I said above and then take the high road. You have to play her like you are supposed to be playing him: all business, only discuss the children, ZERO emotions.

Re: the lawyer -- if you're not happy w/ this one, interview another one but they have NO way of knowing if it will be contested or not until he responds. Your husband will prob be happy that you took the step he is too much of a coward to take But at the same time is not going to be so ahppy when he sees how much a divorce is goin gto cost him: legally, financially, psychologically, the effect on the kids, and the fact everyone knows he cheated on you.

Oh and as for your H and OW...whether he spun it as you guys growing apart or that he's already moved out, it doesn't change the fact that he isn't 100% available to her in a legal sense. Married is married is married. No matter what he said to her she KNEW and KNOWS he is still married to you (and so does he) and it's wrong, no matter how you slice it. 

I won't tell you again to not look at his FB because it's clear you can't let it go, the checking up on him and his wh*re, but hopefully you will realize sooner than it's only making things worse for you.


----------



## turnera

Jellybeans said:


> That is even stupider and funnier that the OW is the one who was liking "I Hate Homewreckers." What a douche.


lol, jellybeans, it's the other woman's HUSBAND who 'liked' "I hate homewreckers." Not WH or OW.

LNL, one last thought. If your friends contact you to say how disgusted they are with him, do this: Ask them to contact HIM and tell him how disgusted they are. Telling you only keeps it fresh and hurtful, but telling HIM just may help him break his affair fog a little faster, so at the very least, he can get back to being a decent dad.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> That is even stupider and funnier that the OW is the one who was liking "I Hate Homewreckers." What a douche.
> 
> As for his mom. Please stop calling her. She has nothing to do with the fact he is stepping out on you. That is his choice completely. Calling her isn't going to change anything. If you like though, you can tell her what I said above and then take the high road. You have to play her like you are supposed to be playing him: all business, only discuss the children, ZERO emotions.
> 
> Re: the lawyer -- if you're not happy w/ this one, interview another one but they have NO way of knowing if it will be contested or not until he responds. Your husband will prob be happy that you took the step he is too much of a coward to take But at the same time is not going to be so ahppy when he sees how much a divorce is goin gto cost him: legally, financially, psychologically, the effect on the kids, and the fact everyone knows he cheated on you.
> 
> Oh and as for your H and OW...whether he spun it as you guys growing apart or that he's already moved out, it doesn't change the fact that he isn't 100% available to her in a legal sense. Married is married is married. No matter what he said to her she KNEW and KNOWS he is still married to you (and so does he) and it's wrong, no matter how you slice it.
> 
> I won't tell you again to not look at his FB because it's clear you can't let it go, the checking up on him and his wh*re, but hopefully you will realize sooner than it's only making things worse for you.


Yeah, it's OW's EX HUSBAND. And I'm done with his mom. She's not going to be any kind of support for me. And she's playing facebook games, blocking my mom and stuff before the text interaction. The blocking game is ridiculous, they are going to block half of facebook before they're done with the lies and hiding.

I think that's where I'm getting peace, with knowing that HE knows the truth, SHE knows the truth, and I know the truth. And so does anyone with half a brain! 



turnera said:


> lol, jellybeans, it's the other woman's HUSBAND who 'liked' "I hate homewreckers." Not WH or OW.
> 
> LNL, one last thought. If your friends contact you to say how disgusted they are with him, do this: Ask them to contact HIM and tell him how disgusted they are. Telling you only keeps it fresh and hurtful, but telling HIM just may help him break his affair fog a little faster, so at the very least, he can get back to being a decent dad.


Yeah, the ex husband. Well, see, H has blocked a good portion of my friends, so they can't message him. But they could text him. He won't care if people mess with him, he'll find some way to blame me. He voiced his concerns yesterday with my mom, "Everyone can hate me, but it doesn't change the situation." He also went on and made it clear that he doesn't want anyone involving OW. That's why I'd rather my friends messaged HER and told her that she's messing around with a married man. What do you think? H has blocked some really weird choices of my friends. Like my best friends of course, but also like coworkers he's never met. :scratchhead: Eventually he'll go through all 250 of my friends I guess. He also changed his profile so that no one can see HIS friends. Guess he's afraid of me contacting OW's family.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, that's a great idea. Your friends have every right to text whomever they want. The important thing is to get your friends to not contact YOU when they see him doing something stupid, ok? Disengage.

DID you ever contact OW's family? Why not?


----------



## WhereAmI

You should unblock OW and put a picture of you and your H kissing as your pic on facebook.  Let her question whether or not your H is trying to get back with you. 

It's another evil thought day, here. Sorry. LOL


----------



## vivea

OMG good idea "where amI "that would be awesome,Jen do it. lol

Will do the same with my picture and if possible with H.'s picture at one point , so when the OW decides to check it out to see that she is wasting her time.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Yeah, that's a great idea. Your friends have every right to text whomever they want. The important thing is to get your friends to not contact YOU when they see him doing something stupid, ok? Disengage.
> 
> DID you ever contact OW's family? Why not?


I never did. You guys said it would be a waste to expose now. I really thought that they should know that their daughter is involved with a married man. If you think I should, what should it say?


----------



## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> lol, jellybeans, it's the other woman's HUSBAND who 'liked' "I hate homewreckers." Not WH or OW.





LonelyNLost said:


> Yeah, it's OW's EX HUSBAND.


Okay, okay! LOL. I clearly cannot read correctly today! Sounds like OW's ex-H is puttin gall the pieces together. They prob have been cheating together for awhile.

And I am not surprised your H is blocking anyone you know. He knows whatever he posts will get back to you AND he knows his adulterous affair is wrong and not a "good" thing. Also he may know you're still checking up on him so he is doing all of those blocks. 

If you contacted OW's parents--what would the purpose be? They aren't responsible for her cheating. If you wanted to you could say something like "Dear OW's parents--My name is Fabulous (lol) and I am Mr. Loneley's wife. It has recently come to my attention that he is involved in an affair with your daughter Vegas Skank. This has caused much distress to myself and my children since he has walked out on our family to have an affair. It also doesnt help that I and (my children?_ are seeing pictures of them together posted all over the internet as they are are trying to pick up the pieces of him leaving and now dealing with more trauma seeing the reason of why he has left his family...

but see...then what would yo usay after that? Tell her to stop boffing my husband? Tell her she's destroyin gmy family?

Idk which way you'd go w/ that cause her parents don't have any relvancy here. At least with his mom she is the grandma but they are nobody at this point...


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I never did. You guys said it would be a waste to expose now. I really thought that they should know that their daughter is involved with a married man. If you think I should, what should it say?


 No, there's no point now. I just wondered why you didn't earlier. 

That said, there's no reason you can't send them a brief message: "It occurred to me today that you may be unaware that the picture your daughter has up on her FB is of her with a married man."

Just that.


----------



## turnera

The only reason I say it may be relevant now is if your children end up being around them at any time. It may help avoid any confusion or 'wrong words' said around your kids.

And I like jb's letter better.

But she's right. You really shouldn't be messing with it all at this point. Just walk away.


----------



## BIP

LonelyNLost said:


> I still think it would be funny to post their pic as my profile pic and label him "husband" and her "not me". haha.


So, LNL, I've been following your thread for a few weeks, and if there is one thing I've learned that I can apply to my own situation, it is: STAY OFF OF FACEBOOK!!!

Today we had MC, and we laughed a bit rehashing our misunderstanding/argument from our "date night" last week. In the parking lot after, he told me how nice I looked, gave me a hug and kiss, and said, "I love you and I'll always love you." I jumped back and said "Don't say that!" and he said, "Why? It's the truth." 
I got into my car wondering if my relationship just got the kiss of death!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> And I am not surprised your H is blocking anyone you know. He knows whatever he posts will get back to you AND he knows his adulterous affair is wrong and not a "good" thing. Also he may know you're still checking up on him so he is doing all of those blocks.
> 
> If you contacted OW's parents--what would the purpose be? They aren't responsible for her cheating. If you wanted to you could say something like "Dear OW's parents--My name is Fabulous (lol) and I am Mr. Loneley's wife. It has recently come to my attention that he is involved in an affair with your daughter Vegas Skank. This has caused much distress to myself and my children since he has walked out on our family to have an affair. It also doesnt help that I and (my children?_ are seeing pictures of them together posted all over the internet as they are are trying to pick up the pieces of him leaving and now dealing with more trauma seeing the reason of why he has left his family...


Haha, you have a way with words. Yeah, not sure what the point would be. Except they would know the truth. They might believe the whole charade. They live in Vegas, so I don't think my kids would be around them any time soon. I haven't allowed my son to see the pics. He might have seen them when I had them up, but I don't know. I kind of want to shield him from the truth about his father.



turnera said:


> No, there's no point now. I just wondered why you didn't earlier.
> 
> That said, there's no reason you can't send them a brief message: "It occurred to me today that you may be unaware that the picture your daughter has up on her FB is of her with a married man."
> 
> But she's right. You really shouldn't be messing with it all at this point. Just walk away.


I feel like I'm doing a lot better. I really do. I haven't looked up either of their facebook pages today.  I don't think I need to waste any more of my energy on them. 

I got out a lot of frustrations beating the he!! out of that pinata this morning. That felt good!



BIP said:


> So, LNL, I've been following your thread for a few weeks, and if there is one thing I've learned that I can apply to my own situation, it is: STAY OFF OF FACEBOOK!!!
> 
> Today we had MC, and we laughed a bit rehashing our misunderstanding/argument from our "date night" last week. In the parking lot after, he told me how nice I looked, gave me a hug and kiss, and said, "I love you and I'll always love you." I jumped back and said "Don't say that!" and he said, "Why? It's the truth."
> I got into my car wondering if my relationship just got the kiss of death!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OH, the kiss of death! Nah, doesn't have to be. Hopefully things will work out with you. My H was full of crap. I just realized I have hundreds of his texts in my phone. Probably would be healthy for me to delete them. Wipe out his empty words. They range from sad and depressed, to loving, to angry, and back. Crazy. It's like the physical evidence of his insanity. 

I love my facebook, but I'm working hard on staying away from THEIR pages.


----------



## tamara24

you have given me a good laugh this morning. I think a pic of you and hubby kissing/ together would get her goat.

His mom wrote that cause she feels guilty. She still cares about you but she has to stick with her son. I am sure he has given the sob story, you grew apart, you didn't love him enough, you were mean to him, you didn't pay him any attention....blah blah Now she doesn't want to hear you bashing her son or telling her the truth because it makes him look like the a___ he is!

He feels guilty and most likely told OW to take pic down and she whined. He knows he is wrong and the less people know about him the story of how you two just drifted apart works well for him. Better than hey I was a cheating jerk.....

Glad you beat the pinata! go get the punching bag for your son and use iy after he goes to bed! 

Get that money together and slap him with those papers. Take the little skip out of his step. Reality is a killer.

Keep going girl, use the punching bag, have a glass of sangria and think about how your going to feel when this skank dumps him and he comes to you saying I know I made a mistake but we grew apart but I am willing to give you another chancve for the kids sake. You know he is NEVER going to admit to his wrong doings, and you look at him and say,hey we grew apart and I am moving on......

It would be interesting since she blocked you and so did he how long word will get back you have a pic up of you and hubby cause you know they are finding out somehow.....Yes, and also stay off that stupid thing. You have a life, don't get sucked in to their circus show. They will be paying the price soon enough. 

You go girl!


----------



## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> you have given me a good laugh this morning. I think a pic of you and hubby kissing/ together would get her goat.
> 
> His mom wrote that cause she feels guilty. She still cares about you but she has to stick with her son. I am sure he has given the sob story, you grew apart, you didn't love him enough, you were mean to him, you didn't pay him any attention....blah blah Now she doesn't want to hear you bashing her son or telling her the truth because it makes him look like the a___ he is!
> 
> He feels guilty and most likely told OW to take pic down and she whined. He knows he is wrong and the less people know about him the story of how you two just drifted apart works well for him. Better than hey I was a cheating jerk.....
> 
> Glad you beat the pinata! go get the punching bag for your son and use iy after he goes to bed!
> 
> Get that money together and slap him with those papers. Take the little skip out of his step. Reality is a killer.
> 
> Keep going girl, use the punching bag, have a glass of sangria and think about how your going to feel when this skank dumps him and he comes to you saying I know I made a mistake but we grew apart but I am willing to give you another chancve for the kids sake. You know he is NEVER going to admit to his wrong doings, and you look at him and say,hey we grew apart and I am moving on......
> 
> It would be interesting since she blocked you and so did he how long word will get back you have a pic up of you and hubby cause you know they are finding out somehow.....Yes, and also stay off that stupid thing. You have a life, don't get sucked in to their circus show. They will be paying the price soon enough.
> 
> You go girl!


That would be really funny, but I think I'm done with the facebook games. They can play them, but I've got better things to do.  

I can only imagine how his mom feels. Plus she has to shield the truth from the rest of the family while HE airs his dirty laundry on facebook. I wonder what people must think? I hope they don't think that's me. Yuck. 

I have a confession to make. I've been talking to a guy online for a week and he's really helped me to look at things differently. He sent me some links to songs that make me feel positive about my future. He told me to listen to Incubus - Drive and it touched me. Then he texted me last night for awhile. Then he called me and sung me a song he wrote. I've never been serenaded.  He seems really sweet and funny and genuine. And he went through what I'm going through not too long ago. I know, I won't rush into anything. And I don't think that's his intention either. When he found out how newly separated I was he actually said, "Whoah, I was hoping it had been longer." But he's really helped me. And put a huge smile on my face.  That's the kind of friend I could use right now.


----------



## tamara24

No, that is the attention you need right now. You like the feeling of somone thinking of you in that way and it is boosting your confidence. There is nothing wrong as long as you take it slow and work on yourself before getting to involved in a relationship. It is nice to know someone finds you attractive,especially when hubby drug you through the mud. Stay clear headed about this and don't fly off the deepend and enjoy it for what it is.

If it makes you feel good and you know you need to concentrate on you,I say why not? Just don't be meeting him yet,no ammo for hubby for divorce or visitation with kids,ok?

You are a smokin hot woman. Seperated for less than six months,hit on by PI and now this! You go girk!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

See - and, LNL, this is directed for others in your shoes who may be reading this, not a jab at you - THIS is why we stress over and over and over again, to expose the affair to everyone with whom the wayward spouse deals. The very day you learn about it!

His family is now stuck in a sick dance, trying to hide the truth from everyone, and figure out how to introduce OW into his life LEGITIMATELY, and his mom is now an accomplice, aiding and abetting him. The only way SHE can get out of it now is to come clean and dishonor her own son.

If the BS would have exposed at the beginning, the affair may have died off, and the whole family could have laughed it off as a 'near miss.' But now that most of the family still doesn't know, they're all scrambling to explain why OWh*re has a picture of him and her on her FB, and his mom is likely trying to recreate the timeline so it looks legitimate. LYING about you to cover it all up. To save HER face to her family.

Exposing would have taken ALL that off the shoulders of everyone else and put it squarely on WH's shoulders, where it would have been so heavy he likely would have collapsed, hit rock bottom, and maybe come out clean on the other side.


----------



## Jellybeans

^ Yep, exactly.



LonelyNLost said:


> I can only imagine how his mom feels. Plus she has to shield the truth from the rest of the family while HE airs his dirty laundry on facebook. I wonder what people must think? I hope they don't think that's me. Yuck.


If people know you and knew you were married, they will know the Vegas Skank in the picture is not you. 

His mom can't shield "the truth." He is having an affair. He is still married to you. Facts are facts. 

You have nothing to be ashamed about, Lonely. You didn't abandon him and your kids to go boff someone from back in high school days and start say you wanted a divorce and plaster pics of you and your shiny new friend all over the internet like a 12 yr old. Hold your head up high. 

Did you talk to her ex husband? 

As for the dating sites--I'd caution you to stay away from them. Your head is not in the right place for that. But hey, compliments from the opposite sex never hurt.


----------



## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> No, that is the attention you need right now. You like the feeling of somone thinking of you in that way and it is boosting your confidence. There is nothing wrong as long as you take it slow and work on yourself before getting to involved in a relationship. It is nice to know someone finds you attractive,especially when hubby drug you through the mud. Stay clear headed about this and don't fly off the deepend and enjoy it for what it is.
> 
> If it makes you feel good and you know you need to concentrate on you,I say why not? Just don't be meeting him yet,no ammo for hubby for divorce or visitation with kids,ok?
> 
> You are a smokin hot woman. Seperated for less than six months,hit on by PI and now this! You go girk!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, no meeting with him any time soon. And if I did, it would be as friends and not when the kids were with me. It does feel good to know that I have the ability to connect with someone on an emotional and intellectual level and they find me attractive.  I need the confidence boost and the distraction. And he's really been a lot of help in making me see things in a different light. 



turnera said:


> See - and, LNL, this is directed for others in your shoes who may be reading this, not a jab at you - THIS is why we stress over and over and over again, to expose the affair to everyone with whom the wayward spouse deals. The very day you learn about it!
> 
> His family is now stuck in a sick dance, trying to hide the truth from everyone, and figure out how to introduce OW into his life LEGITIMATELY, and his mom is now an accomplice, aiding and abetting him. The only way SHE can get out of it now is to come clean and dishonor her own son.
> 
> If the BS would have exposed at the beginning, the affair may have died off, and the whole family could have laughed it off as a 'near miss.' But now that most of the family still doesn't know, they're all scrambling to explain why OWh*re has a picture of him and her on her FB, and his mom is likely trying to recreate the timeline so it looks legitimate. LYING about you to cover it all up. To save HER face to her family.
> 
> Exposing would have taken ALL that off the shoulders of everyone else and put it squarely on WH's shoulders, where it would have been so heavy he likely would have collapsed, hit rock bottom, and maybe come out clean on the other side.


You are right about it all. I guess I never felt like I had the proof, all I had were suspicions that he manipulated to make me feel crazy. I feel like a moron when I talk to people and tell them about the red flags. But it was all suspicions. And he made me feel like if I pushed it further he'd leave. He did a great job with all manipulation tactics. The only person I DID share with was his mom. And look where that got me. She knows it all. She KNOWS what has happened. And I honestly don't think they've called the family members (all live elsewhere except a set of grandparents) and told them that we're divorcing. And honestly, if I had broken him from the affair by exposure and he came stumbling back, I don't think I would have wanted to be with him after a second affair. To me it would have been more than a near miss. It was a dealbreaker, a flaw that I couldn't handle. I really think I'll be better off this way...WITHOUT HIM. 

I pity the life they are all living right now.


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Haha, you have a way with words.


Why, thank you. ::curtsies::


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> If people know you and knew you were married, they will know the Vegas Skank in the picture is not you.
> 
> His mom can't shield "the truth." He is having an affair. He is still married to you. Facts are facts.
> 
> You have nothing to be ashamed about, Lonely. You didn't abandon him and your kids to go boff someone from back in high school days and start say you wanted a divorce and plaster pics of you and your shiny new friend all over the internet like a 12 yr old. Hold your head up high.
> 
> Did you talk to her ex husband?
> 
> As for the dating sites--I'd caution you to stay away from them. Your head is not in the right place for that. But hey, compliments from the opposite sex never hurt.


The ex husband never wrote me back. I don't think he gets on facebook often. 

People knew we were married, but I didn't meet a lot of his dad's side of the family. I would think they'd recognize me in a picture, but his cousins and such might not and those are the ones on facebook. I'm sure a lot of people are looking at the picture and scratching their head. Who knows what his status updates have said. Probably crap about moving on or something. Idk. And I don't care anymore. 

I know, dating sites are scary, and new to me. But I weeded through lots of guys and he really stood out. He's just different. And he's not out for a relationship either. He's still working through his issues I think, and has a fear of another heartbreak. He's wise, and really funny. I'm not in the right place to jump into a relationship, but a new friend to lean on, and someone to make me laugh, is exactly what the doctor ordered.  And I promise not to flaunt him all over facebook, lol.


----------



## LonelyNLost

You guys would be so proud! I've stayed off their facebooks for almost two days! Small steps, right? But here's the thing. One of my friends sent me a picture that she has now as her profile pic.  That girl is messing with me! It's a picture that was clearly not taken in the Florida summer heat. It was taken when he went out to see his "friend" in January. He's wearing a hoodie and a heavy flannel and she's wearing a fur coat and they are all cozied up. Now I'm afraid he slept with her and I could have some of her skank grossness. Ugh.

Did I tell you guys how in his conversation with my mom, he kept saying not to bring anyone else, or innocent people, into this? I took that as him begging and pleading not to say anything to HER or her family. I'm all geared up to changed my profile pic to a family pic in front of the Christmas tree, and then send a message to her parents saying he's married. Trying the high road, but I don't know. 

Tell me to move along and not care. PLEASE! And how do I tell my friends to stop looking at stuff and talking about stuff? I also want them to limit me on how long I'm allowed to go on about it. I know I've got to be a drag to hang around!


----------



## Jellybeans

Good!!! I am glad to hear you are two days into NO CHECKING on the FB! 

As for your friend--tell her to stop sneind you stuff about him. It will not help you detach. She prob means well but you don't need the setbacks. Save the picture for future use if needed.

PLEASE GET TESTED FOR STDS stat. She is only very recently divorced and was prob sleeping with her ex, your hub, and you slept with your hub. That is a lot of sex hapepning between 4 people. 

I can see exactly why you'd like to adise her parents she is with your hub but in the end, wath prupose would it serve. I say put a pic up of ou and your kiddos having fun.


----------



## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> You guys would be so proud! I've stayed off their facebooks for almost two days! Small steps, right? But here's the thing. One of my friends sent me a picture that she has now as her profile pic.  That girl is messing with me! It's a picture that was clearly not taken in the Florida summer heat. It was taken when he went out to see his "friend" in January. He's wearing a hoodie and a heavy flannel and she's wearing a fur coat and they are all cozied up. Now I'm afraid he slept with her and I could have some of her skank grossness. Ugh.
> 
> Did I tell you guys how in his conversation with my mom, he kept saying not to bring anyone else, or innocent people, into this? I took that as him begging and pleading not to say anything to HER or her family. I'm all geared up to changed my profile pic to a family pic in front of the Christmas tree, and then send a message to her parents saying he's married. Trying the high road, but I don't know.
> 
> Tell me to move along and not care. PLEASE! And how do I tell my friends to stop looking at stuff and talking about stuff? I also want them to limit me on how long I'm allowed to go on about it. I know I've got to be a drag to hang around!


Awesome step with FB! 

Personally, I think you should contact her family. Let them know that the affair appears to have started in January and that you have been trying to save your marriage, but it's proven impossible with her trying to take your place. Ask them to have a talk with her.


----------



## BIP

WhereAmI said:


> Awesome step with FB!
> 
> Personally, I think you should contact her family. Let them know that the affair appears to have started in January and that you have been trying to save your marriage, but it's proven impossible with her trying to take your place. Ask them to have a talk with her.


I tend to agree that they should be exposed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

If you really want to do this, you could put up the Xmas picture and say:

_"Dear Parents of Vegas Skank. This is X's wife. It has recently come to my attention that your daughter is having on an affair with my husband. X and I have been married for X yrs and have two beautiful children together who are X yrs ol dand X yrs old which is making this even harder. Her affair with my husband has been detrimental to our family and marriage. It seems your daughter has even posted pictures of herself w/ my husband on her FB for the world to see and this has been even more hurtful to myself and the children. I am telling you this as a caution so you are fully aware that my husband is not single and has a family in City's Name as I am unsure of what she has told you. As X's wife and as a family woman to reaching out to you both, I thought it was important for you to know the truth. Sincerely, Lonely."_

Now if you had filed I'd tell you to write * the BOMB*:_ "As this time, Vegas Skank hasn't been named in any paperwork and I would hate to have to see her answer to a judge about her adulterous affair with my husband that helped destroy our family. There is so much evidencne she would not be able to deny, including her latest trip here visiting w/ my husband this past Easter during which he was supposed to be taking care of our children during a time I had plans and went out."_

Ka-ching.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Good!!! I am glad to hear you are two days into NO CHECKING on the FB!
> 
> As for your friend--tell her to stop sneind you stuff about him. It will not help you detach. She prob means well but you don't need the setbacks. Save the picture for future use if needed.
> 
> PLEASE GET TESTED FOR STDS stat. She is only very recently divorced and was prob sleeping with her ex, your hub, and you slept with your hub. That is a lot of sex hapepning between 4 people.
> 
> I can see exactly why you'd like to adise her parents she is with your hub but in the end, wath prupose would it serve. I say put a pic up of ou and your kiddos having fun.


I know, testing for STD's is scary! I really don't think he would have been physical with her then, but who knows. Yuck. I think she was here in February and he slept with her then. Because the night before he left for that trip is the last time we slept together. That's why I think that's the first time he got physical. Even he wouldn't be able to sleep with 2 women at once. But I guess I can't know for sure. So I'll call the doc. 

I guess the purpose of exposing to her family would be that they know what's really going on. I hope it makes them feel bad. I still want to expose to his family members, especially on his dad's side. I was thinking sort of like a goodbye letter, saying I will miss being a part of the family, and I wish he would have walked away before pursuing his affair. Obviously I'm not sure about it all since I haven't done it. 



WhereAmI said:


> Awesome step with FB!
> 
> Personally, I think you should contact her family. Let them know that the affair appears to have started in January and that you have been trying to save your marriage, but it's proven impossible with her trying to take your place. Ask them to have a talk with her.


But is this legit if I don't even want to save my marriage now? I couldn't take him back. Life won't be the same. As much as I think I can forgive and that marriage is worth it, he's just gone too far. He's broken too many vows too many times and disrespected me. It's best for ME to move on. And my kids, too. 

I don't think I'd even want to tell them we are having problems. Make it sound like we're still together and it's a big lie on their parts. 



BIP said:


> I tend to agree that they should be exposed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What should I say?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> If you really want to do this, you could put up the Xmas picture and say:
> 
> _"Dear Parents of Vegas Skank. This is X's wife. It has recently come to my attention that your daughter is carrying on an affair with my husband. This has been detrimental to my marriage and we have children which is making this even harder. It seems your daughter has even posted pictures of herself w/ my husband on her FB for the world to see and this has been even more hurtful to myself and the children. I am telling you this as a cautionary tale so that you don't think my husband is single as I am unsure of what she has told you. As X's wife and as a family woman to reaching out to you both, I thought it was important for you to know the truth. Sincerely, Lonely."_
> 
> Now if you had filed I'd tell you to write * the BOMB*:_ "As this time, Vegas Skank hasn't been named in any paperwork and I would hate to have to see her answer to a judge about her adulterous affair with my husband that helped destroy our family. There is so much evidencne she would not be able to deny, including her latest trip here visiting w/ my husband this past Easter during which he was supposed to be taking care of our children during a time I had plans and went out."_
> 
> Ka-ching.


LOVE IT! :smthumbup: Do I have the balls to do this?!


----------



## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> But is this legit if I don't even want to save my marriage now? I couldn't take him back. Life won't be the same. As much as I think I can forgive and that marriage is worth it, he's just gone too far. He's broken too many vows too many times and disrespected me. It's best for ME to move on. And my kids, too.
> 
> I don't think I'd even want to tell them we are having problems. Make it sound like we're still together and it's a big lie on their parts.


Yes, I believe it is. If you say your husband left you for her it doesn't sound like an affair. If you say you've been fighting for your marriage and she is trying to take your place, it's an affair and wrong. If people in her life know that he's not the amazing guy that he's trying to paint himself as, they're likely to talk some sense into her. 

That doesn't mean you need to take him back if they do split. I'm very happy that you're ready to move on! I just think it should be known that they've ruined two families with their selfishness. Why should you let them pretend that their "romance" is all roses? It's not.


----------



## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> LOVE IT! :smthumbup: Do I have the balls to do this?!


Please use the words "trying to take my place" somewhere in there. It makes it seem more evil. LOL Also add that it started in January. They should know that she cheated on her H as well.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> Did I tell you guys how in his conversation with my mom, he kept saying not to bring anyone else, or innocent people, into this? I took that as him begging and pleading not to say anything to HER or her family. I'm all geared up to changed my profile pic to a family pic in front of the Christmas tree, and then send a message to her parents saying he's married. Trying the high road, but I don't know.


Personally, I see nothing wrong with letting them know they're about to let a philanderer into their midst.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I I was thinking sort of like a goodbye letter, saying I will miss being a part of the family, and I wish he would have walked away before pursuing his affair.


I would do this as well.

Not to get him back, but to hopefully get his family on his case so they can help him deal with the crap he's just created. And maybe, just maybe, learn to be a better person so he doesn't keep wrecking lives.


----------



## turnera

WhereAmI said:


> Please use the words "trying to take my place" somewhere in there. It makes it seem more evil. LOL Also add that it started in January. They should know that she cheated on her H as well.


Yep.


----------



## Jellybeans

Lonely, it would be ideal if you file the divorce before writing the letter to HIS family. Why? Beause you could say this:

Dear Hub's Family:

As you are aware, Hub and I have separated. I have filed for divorce as a result of his adulterous affair with Vegas Skank's Name and abandonment of our family. I do appreciate your support with the children and hope in the future we can maintain a good relationship for them. Thank you for your help throughout the years and I know you will continue to be the great grandparents you have always been for X and X (kids' names).

Sincerely, 

Lonely.

Oh and FYI: you could amend my letter up there to include this BOMB part to the original post: but ONLY this way:

"Vegas Skank even came here for a trip this past Easter during which he was supposed to be taking care of our children during a time I had plans and went out."

You say it THAT way because it makes it sound like you and hubs are still living together and while hw as supposed to be babysititng, Vegas Skank was taking him away from his time with the kisd.

Also, when you word it that way , you are stating the facts and NOT lying but it makes it SOUND the other way. Get it? 

I wouldn't mention "trying to take my place." The thing is you have to come across as sugar and sweet and as a womean who isn't angry, just looking after her familyl. You are playing the sympathy card.  But in a backhanded way! HAHAHAHA


----------



## WhereAmI

I edited a bit. 

_"Dear Parents of Vegas Skank. This is X's wife. On 00/00/00 I discovered that my husband of 00 years has been having an affair with your daughter since January. I have been trying to save my marriage, but it's proven impossible because of the ongoing affair. I have been informed that ____ posted pictures of herself w/ my husband on her FB. As much as my heart aches at their blatant disregard for me, I am more concerned about the possibility my children could stumble upon this evidence. I wanted you to be aware that my husband is not single and has a family in City's Name as I am unsure of what she has told you. As X's wife and as a family woman I'm reaching out to you hoping that you'll be able to help your daughter understand the gravity of her decisions. Sincerely, Lonely."_

ETA: After reading my version compared to JBs, I agree with her on the "taking my place." It might be a little to harsh and make them want to defend their daughter. I changed my version, but use whichever makes you feel most comfortable.


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## Jellybeans

Go back and read the original letter I posted since imade changes after u highlighted it lonely the more doubt u put in their minds and spaces to fill and questions...the better
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, I think I'm going to sleep on it. I'm a Libra, very indecisive. LOL.  

So, I was just doing something really healthy, emptying out all his texts from my phone. They went back to the first week he moved out, so before this thread started. I found one from his mom saying she loves me and always will. UGH. I don't want to ever hear that from someone again! 

Oh, and so I pointed one of my friends here to keep up on the latest, haha. I should just point everyone here. I have a really hard time keeping straight with who I've told what. Mentally exhausting. I wish I could fast forward past all this.


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## BIP

WhereAmI said:


> I edited a bit.
> 
> _"Dear Parents of Vegas Skank. This is X's wife. On 00/00/00 I discovered that my husband of 00 years has been having an affair with your daughter since January. I have been trying to save my marriage, but it's proven impossible because of the ongoing affair. I have been informed that ____ posted pictures of herself w/ my husband on her FB. As much as my heart aches at their blatant disregard for me, I am more concerned about the possibility my children could stumble upon this evidence. I wanted you to be aware that my husband is not single and has a family in City's Name as I am unsure of what she has told you. As X's wife and as a family woman I'm reaching out to you hoping that you'll be able to help your daughter understand the gravity of her decisions. Sincerely, Lonely."_


Wow, that's really good!!!! Especially about the kids. Well done, WhereamI.


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## LonelyNLost

Hey, that was my 1000th post up there! ^^^^

I just wanted to tell you guys that this letting go thing feels really good. I looked in the mirror today and I saw me. Not the wife that centers her world around H, but the person I am. It feels good. I like me. 

Oh, and the sweet guy who serenaded me, didn't hear from him last night, but he sent me a sweet text this morning saying he thought of me when he heard Sara Evans "Little Bit Stronger" and he told me to have a great day. Awe. And I listened to the song and it's like my theme song for sure. I could have written the lyrics myself!


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## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> Hey, that was my 1000th post up there! ^^^^
> 
> *I just wanted to tell you guys that this letting go thing feels really good. I looked in the mirror today and I saw me. Not the wife that centers her world around H, but the person I am. It feels good. I like me. *
> 
> Oh, and the sweet guy who serenaded me, didn't hear from him last night, but he sent me a sweet text this morning saying he thought of me when he heard Sara Evans "Little Bit Stronger" and he told me to have a great day. Awe. And I listened to the song and it's like my theme song for sure. I could have written the lyrics myself!


That made me all teary eyed. LOL I'm very happy for you. Great things await!


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## Jellybeans

I am glad to see you letting go. I think you are doing a good job, you just need to stop checking up on him and his ho.

Letting go is very freeing 

I still like the first letter I wrote (and later edited) because as explained, the more doubt you put in their minds, the better. Everything I wrote makes it sound lik you're still with him and he is having an affair whereas the other letter paitns you as needy/spiralling out of control.

You should come across as sweet, protective of your family and whatnot.


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## Oak

Big hugs Lonely. You can do it!


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## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> That made me all teary eyed. LOL I'm very happy for you. Great things await!


Thanks! I feel great. And even though I thought I was fine around my kids, I wasn't. Because you should see the difference in my son. Even his teachers mentioned how much he seemed like his old self today. It's rubbing off! This really IS what's best for US. 



Jellybeans said:


> I am glad to see you letting go. I think you are doing a good job, you just need to stop checking up on him and his ho.
> 
> Letting go is very freeing
> 
> I still like the first letter I wrote (and later edited) because as explained, the more doubt you put in their minds, the better. Everything I wrote makes it sound lik you're still with him and he is having an affair whereas the other letter paitns you as needy/spiralling out of control.
> 
> You should come across as sweet, protective of your family and whatnot.


Yes, I'm working on this. I have a lot to do tonight as far as figuring out my finances and getting things in order with that. But then maybe I'll tinkle with sending them a letter. Should I send it to just her mom, dad, and stepdad? I'm not bothering with her. And should I also send one to H's family? I might have to go actual snail mail with that. 



Oak said:


> Big hugs Lonely. You can do it!


Oak! How have you been? And yes, I can do it! Hugs right back at ya!


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## Jellybeans

I wouldn't send anything to his family until you file for divorce and you can use that letter I wrote/edit ti to your liking (the one of the previous page).

Yes, I would send it to her dad and mom.


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## BIP

LonelyNLost said:


> I just wanted to tell you guys that this letting go thing feels really good. I looked in the mirror today and I saw me. Not the wife that centers her world around H, but the person I am. It feels good. I like me.


I'm so happy for you!!! How long has it taken you??


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## tamara24

Lonely,

Dear sir and Madam, my name is lonely and I am married to the man that your daughter is currently dating. My intent to infom you is only to let you know that your daughter has posted pictures of herself and my husband. My husband and I were working on our marraige when they began seeing each other in Jan. Although my husband and I have decided that our marraige has been under too much strain to repair,we do have two beautiful children together and it is my desire to protect them from the knowledge that theirfather is engaged in an affair that has contributed to the ruin of our marraige. There have been pictures posted on facebook of your daughter and my husband as early as Jan. And as recently as this past Easter week when my husband neglected our children by not visiting them the entire week your daughter was here.

As a family person, I am concerned over the fact that our children may see these pics accidently and further traumatize them. My husband has choosen to stay with his parents and our children have seen him on a limited basis and he has never missed a holiday with them. I am not telling you this as a scorned woman, but as a concerned mom who has watched two individuals make decisions that could impact my children's lives.as a parent, I am sure you can identify with my concerns and I. Only ask that you council your daughter in waiting until our marraige has been concluded and my children have time to adjust to all of the changes they are in store for. I do not want them dragged into a bitter divorce and your daughter having to answer to a judge for decisions that she has made with a married man.

Sincerley,
Lonely

Your doing great. Hang in there,but be prepared for hubby's wrath, and her parents in possible denial also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

See, I still think...the MORE DOUBT You cast, the better. I wouldn't say "we were trying to save our marriage" ... just state the facts: she is having an affair with your husband and it's been detrimental to your marriage, you have kids and want to shield them from this and you feel you have a responsibility to tell them the truth--that their daughter is involved with a married man.

Don't say you're worried they *may* see the pics (your kids). YOu ahve to word everything as they have already seen it and been exposed. It makes the affair even UGLIER sounding!

ALL FACTS, leaves doubt he's still with you, which will undoubtedly make them look at him in a BAD light and the entire affair. LOLS for you!


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## turnera

Me likey!


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## turnera

hmmm, jb has good points, too.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I wouldn't send anything to his family until you file for divorce and you can use that letter I wrote/edit ti to your liking (the one of the previous page).
> 
> Yes, I would send it to her dad and mom.


Okay. So I'm just exposing to her parents for right now, then. I might do this tomorrow night after he drops the kids off. Then I'm free and clear of seeing him until the following Tuesday. Not sure how I'm going to deal with the wrath. I guess my fear is that instead of laying back and going along with everything with the divorce, he's going to become bitter and even more angry and try to take more than he's taken. 

I rescheduled my appt with the lawyer to next Thursday. I couldn't get the money together. Left a message with the PI, hoping to hear back soon.




BIP said:


> I'm so happy for you!!! How long has it taken you??


I don't know. I guess it's really a process, and I'm no where whole again or totally detached but it's happening in what seems like an abrupt manner. I'm sure I'll have down days. We only separated 2 months ago, and I think I've gone in stages. Sad, then hurt, then angry, then vengeful, and now scorned, but looking ahead rather than behind. I'd say really the last week or two have been the turning point. Once I knew she was coming here and they were going to carry on like he wasn't married, I was done. I guess even before that I highly doubted my ability to recover from this even if I did break the fog and he came back. I guess seeing them posting pictures together all over facebook made me realize how little regard he has for me and what a piece of scum he is. And I don't need anyone like that in my life. 

This is my view...
*It’s sad when someone you know becomes someone you knew…when you walk past them like they were never part of your life…how you used to talk to them for hours and now you can barely look at them…It’s sad how time changes everything.*

Listen to this...
YouTube - Sara Evans - A Little Bit Stronger

The guy that sang to me the other night, he sent me a text at 5:45 this morning telling me he heard it and thought of me. And well, it's exactly where I'm at and how I feel.


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> 
> Dear sir and Madam, my name is lonely and I am married to the man that your daughter is currently dating. My intent to infom you is only to let you know that your daughter has posted pictures of herself and my husband. My husband and I were working on our marraige when they began seeing each other in Jan. Although my husband and I have decided that our marraige has been under too much strain to repair,we do have two beautiful children together and it is my desire to protect them from the knowledge that theirfather is engaged in an affair that has contributed to the ruin of our marraige. There have been pictures posted on facebook of your daughter and my husband as early as Jan. And as recently as this past Easter week when my husband neglected our children by not visiting them the entire week your daughter was here.
> 
> As a family person, I am concerned over the fact that our children may see these pics accidently and further traumatize them. My husband has choosen to stay with his parents and our children have seen him on a limited basis and he has never missed a holiday with them. I am not telling you this as a scorned woman, but as a concerned mom who has watched two individuals make decisions that could impact my children's lives.as a parent, I am sure you can identify with my concerns and I. Only ask that you council your daughter in waiting until our marraige has been concluded and my children have time to adjust to all of the changes they are in store for. I do not want them dragged into a bitter divorce and your daughter having to answer to a judge for decisions that she has made with a married man.
> 
> Sincerley,
> Lonely
> 
> Your doing great. Hang in there,but be prepared for hubby's wrath, and her parents in possible denial also.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like this one too. But I think short and sweet is good. I don't even know how often they get on facebook. And I don't want to give away too much info. Or make it sound like I'm threatening to bring her into it. And I do not want to endure the wrath of the [email protected] Ugh.


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## tamara24

Just yet another idea for you and you can always amend with all of our suggestions. As soon as he gets divorce papers,he is going to be an a-- anyway so I would not worry about him. Also, since she posted proof of them together in Jan you can always counter with all I asked was for you to be honest with me, instead you were with the OW in Jan and denied it. Now you can't even be honest if you slept with her and put me in danger of any stds. As she was married while she was sleeping with you too. I am not the fool you wanted me to believe I was Then add jack as-!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24

Ps I am a libra too,sister! Between that and sangria,we may be twins!haha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BIP

LonelyNLost said:


> Listen to this...
> YouTube - Sara Evans - A Little Bit Stronger
> 
> The guy that sang to me the other night, he sent me a text at 5:45 this morning telling me he heard it and thought of me. And well, it's exactly where I'm at and how I feel.


Well, that was good for a BIG cry! What a song! Do feel now that you hear a song you've heard a million times and never really paid any attention, but now it's all about YOU? HA! I've had to switch to my station in the car to talk radio so I don't crash while crying!
I am happy that you have someone expressing interest. I went to my IC today and had a discussion about dating; if I want to, if I'm ready. She said "no," not ready, but said it's good that I have feelings for someone new and am not completely numb to the possibility of a happy future! Did you happen to see my thread about "if you are separated, is it cheating?" in the separated/divorce section? I wonder if I had posted in infidelity if I would have got the same reaction?
Anyway, enjoy the attention, Lord knows YOU deserve to feel special!


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## Jellybeans

tamara24 said:


> Ps I am a libra too,sister! Between that and sangria,we may be twins!haha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm an Aquarius but I looove libras! And sangria. We would haave so much fun together!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Just yet another idea for you and you can always amend with all of our suggestions. As soon as he gets divorce papers,he is going to be an a-- anyway so I would not worry about him. Also, since she posted proof of them together in Jan you can always counter with all I asked was for you to be honest with me, instead you were with the OW in Jan and denied it. Now you can't even be honest if you slept with her and put me in danger of any stds. As she was married while she was sleeping with you too. I am not the fool you wanted me to believe I was Then add jack as-!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Love it. I honestly think that he believes I'm sitting around sad, crying over him. That I am hoping and wishing he'd come back and I act angry with him so that I can cover the pain. I can almost guarantee that. He's so wrong. 




BIP said:


> Well, that was good for a BIG cry! What a song! Do feel now that you hear a song you've heard a million times and never really paid any attention, but now it's all about YOU? HA! I've had to switch to my station in the car to talk radio so I don't crash while crying!
> I am happy that you have someone expressing interest. I went to my IC today and had a discussion about dating; if I want to, if I'm ready. She said "no," not ready, but said it's good that I have feelings for someone new and am not completely numb to the possibility of a happy future! Did you happen to see my thread about "if you are separated, is it cheating?" in the separated/divorce section? I wonder if I had posted in infidelity if I would have got the same reaction?
> Anyway, enjoy the attention, Lord knows YOU deserve to feel special!


Amazing how often we hear songs but don't actually HEAR the message. I'll be spending some time with iTunes tonight. Music is great therapy. 

I did see that thread, and it is a big debate for me personally. But I think taking it slow right now and building a friendship that may or may not become anything is best. 



Jellybeans said:


> I'm an Aquarius but I looove libras! And sangria. We would haave so much fun together!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





tamara24 said:


> Ps I am a libra too,sister! Between that and sangria,we may be twins!haha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gals, I would SO be down for that! I owe you all drinks!


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## DelinquentGurl

I love/hate that song by Sara Evans. I love Sara Evans and I do love the song, but sometimes I can't listen to it because it hurts so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

DelinquentGurl said:


> I love/hate that song by Sara Evans. I love Sara Evans and I do love the song, but sometimes I can't listen to it because it hurts so much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Love/hate relationships are okay.  

I can completely identify with it. It doesn't hurt, doesn't make me cry. I guess that means I'm actually growing and letting go. I like listening to it. Go me!

The one that hurts is Kelly Clarkson, Already Gone.


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## Jellybeans

^ I heard that song driving away from the courthouse the day of my divorce & it made me cry


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## WhereAmI

Jellybeans said:


> See, I still think...the MORE DOUBT You cast, the better. I wouldn't say "we were trying to save our marriage" ... just state the facts: she is having an affair with your husband and it's been detrimental to your marriage, you have kids and want to shield them from this and you feel you have a responsibility to tell them the truth--that their daughter is involved with a married man.


:iagree:


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## tamara24

Just keep everything short and sweet with hubby. Don't want to leak anything to him. Keep him guessing. Ii agree with Jelly,create the doubt. If my daughter was dating a married a man, I would throw a fit. And I would make sure that the man knew I knew he was married and he needed to go home to his family. I could care less if his family did or did not want him back but he would not be messing with mine!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, boys and girls, tonight was interesting. H picked the kids up from school, and I had told my son that I had to go somewhere tonight, and if I wasn't home in time that Daddy would drop them at the neighbors. So he says this to H, who then texts me asking about it and I tell him I wasn't sure yet, but that I would let him know where to drop them. He ended up dropping him there but staying to talk to the husband, while the wife was out back with the kids. So I went over and we hung out in the backyard. We go to walk back to our house and as I'm opening the door, my son says, "I heard something today." I ask what and he says he heard grandma say to daddy, "How's your girlfriend doing?" and then daddy reply, "Shhhhh". 

So I'm in shock, and I sort of ask what that meant and he says that daddy has a girlfriend. And he has this look on his face like kind of mad, but sort of nonchalant. I ask what he thinks about that and he asks if I knew. I said I thought so, but for him this was the realization that we aren't going to be together anymore. He put it all together and asked some questions but mostly I just let him figure it out in his own way. He then asked if daddy left because he wanted to be with her and I said maybe. I did a lot of reassuring and explaining that things happen, and no matter what we both love him and he'll be alright. 

But at the same time, I'm pissed at his mom! WTH is her deal? I drafted this email but haven't sent it. Keep in mind I still haven't responded to the one from last Saturday about her standing by him.

_I wanted to let you know what your son came home and said tonight, and the conversation that followed. Before we even got into the sliding glass door, he told me, "I heard something today." I looked at him and said, "What?" and he proceeded to tell me about a conversation he overhead while playing Wii. He said that he heard Grandma ask Daddy how his girlfriend was doing. He then heard Daddy respond with, "Shhhhh!" Our son is very upset, and confused, hurt, and angry. I was at a loss for words, and did my best to comfort him. I would appreciate it if you and your family would consider your actions and conversations while around our children. 
_

What do you think? I'm up dealing with this tonight instead of sending the message to skank's family. So much to handle!


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, boys and girls, tonight was interesting. H picked the kids up from school, and I had told my son that I had to go somewhere tonight, and if I wasn't home in time that Daddy would drop them at the neighbors. So he says this to H, who then texts me asking about it and I tell him I wasn't sure yet, but that I would let him know where to drop them. He ended up dropping him there but staying to talk to the husband, while the wife was out back with the kids. So I went over and we hung out in the backyard. We go to walk back to our house and as I'm opening the door, my son says, "I heard something today." I ask what and he says he heard grandma say to daddy, "How's your girlfriend doing?" and then daddy reply, "Shhhhh".
> 
> So I'm in shock, and I sort of ask what that meant and he says that daddy has a girlfriend. And he has this look on his face like kind of mad, but sort of nonchalant. I ask what he thinks about that and he asks if I knew. I said I thought so, but for him this was the realization that we aren't going to be together anymore. He put it all together and asked some questions but mostly I just let him figure it out in his own way. He then asked if daddy left because he wanted to be with her and I said maybe. I did a lot of reassuring and explaining that things happen, and no matter what we both love him and he'll be alright.
> 
> But at the same time, I'm pissed at his mom! WTH is her deal? I drafted this email but haven't sent it. Keep in mind I still haven't responded to the one from last Saturday about her standing by him.
> 
> _I wanted to let you know what your son came home and said tonight, and the conversation that followed. Before we even got into the sliding glass door, he told me, "I heard something today." I looked at him and said, "What?" and he proceeded to tell me about a conversation he overhead while playing Wii. He said that he heard Grandma ask Daddy how his girlfriend was doing. He then heard Daddy respond with, "Shhhhh!" Our son is very upset, and confused, hurt, and angry. I was at a loss for words, and did my best to comfort him. I would appreciate it if you and your family would consider your actions and conversations while around our children.
> _
> 
> What do you think? I'm up dealing with this tonight instead of sending the message to skank's family. So much to handle!


My opinion - the less detail the better. Our son overheard grandma ask about your girlfriend is good enough. When you get too into detail you risk openings to discredit yourself even by accident or misunderstanding. If your son was eating supper vs. Playing wii automatically these idiots will discount the whole point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> My opinion - the less detail the better. Our son overheard grandma ask about your girlfriend is good enough. When you get too into detail you risk openings to discredit yourself even by accident or misunderstanding. If your son was eating supper vs. Playing wii automatically these idiots will discount the whole point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can you believe it though? I'm completely appalled. What was she thinking? 

So, just say he overhead and he's upset?


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Can you believe it though? I'm completely appalled. What was she thinking?
> 
> So, just say he overhead and he's upset?


That's what I'd say. I'd address it but keep details to minimum. What a classless family!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> That's what I'd say. I'd address it but keep details to minimum. What a classless family!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ugh. So disgusted right now.


----------



## BIP

golfergirl said:


> My opinion - the less detail the better. Our son overheard grandma ask about your girlfriend is good enough. When you get too into detail you risk openings to discredit yourself even by accident or misunderstanding. If your son was eating supper vs. Playing wii automatically these idiots will discount the whole point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## LonelyNLost

I slept on it, so I haven't sent it yet. Haven't sent any correspondence to him or anyone in a couple weeks. I never responded to his mom's email, and I never emailed him about calling the kids. With this whole taking my focus off him and letting go, I don't even really care to spend much energy on them. Or even the note to her parents to let them know she's a homewrecker. I'm starting to really not care. 

But in this issue with last night lies a bigger problem. My son is in a fragile place now. To him, what he heard, meant that his parents weren't getting back together. And it sucks that he heard it from that side, since that side is the one night telling him anything. They just buy him ice cream and treats and expect everything to blow over. I'm the one openly communicating with him and checking in with how he feels. I'm the one telling him it will be okay, no matter what happens. I'm the one here picking up the pieces while his heart breaks. Is this okay? Can a child be alright with one parent as their rock and the other as a big fluffy rain cloud?  Does he need to know that his son figured out his infidelity? 

I guess this is where I'm stuck. Why should I share our conversation? I want to keep it brief if I do. Do I tell him that our son is upset? I just don't know what to do. Son seemed better this morning, I told him how great I felt and that life is a big book, and sometimes a chapter ends so a new one can begin. And I told him WE write the pages. He smiled a big smile and said he was glad I was happy. I think we'll be okay. But I do fear what H's relationship with the kids will be like. And how he'll come back at me like I told our son grown up things or whatever. But the kid is 8 going on 20. He figured it all out, in his own little kid way. He asked questions, I answered them. He asked if I knew who the girlfriend was and I said yes, an old friend from Vegas. And he asked why Vegas and I said that they dated in high school and found each other online. He had a weird look on his face and all I told him was that the arguing for the past 5 months was about me not liking daddy to be friends with her. And my son then said, "Mommy, she's more than a friend." And then he put it all together and said, "Daddy wants to be with her and not you." Heartbreaking. He was numb for a bit but then cried and let it out. I did not bash his father to him at all, I just said we are all human and make mistakes, and that he needed to pray to God for peace in his heart. I told him we go through things to make us stronger and teach us lessons. I reassured him that we'll be alright. He smiled, and then I laid with him while he sobbed himself to sleep. All while d!ckhead is sitting at his parents house happy as a clam talking to his girlfriend on the phone. Grrr.

Why is life so unfair? I can handle that he hurt me and shredded my heart, but why do my children have to feel that hurt too?


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I slept on it, so I haven't sent it yet. Haven't sent any correspondence to him or anyone in a couple weeks. I never responded to his mom's email, and I never emailed him about calling the kids. With this whole taking my focus off him and letting go, I don't even really care to spend much energy on them. Or even the note to her parents to let them know she's a homewrecker. I'm starting to really not care.
> 
> But in this issue with last night lies a bigger problem. My son is in a fragile place now. To him, what he heard, meant that his parents weren't getting back together. And it sucks that he heard it from that side, since that side is the one night telling him anything. They just buy him ice cream and treats and expect everything to blow over. I'm the one openly communicating with him and checking in with how he feels. I'm the one telling him it will be okay, no matter what happens. I'm the one here picking up the pieces while his heart breaks. Is this okay? Can a child be alright with one parent as their rock and the other as a big fluffy rain cloud?  Does he need to know that his son figured out his infidelity?
> 
> I guess this is where I'm stuck. Why should I share our conversation? I want to keep it brief if I do. Do I tell him that our son is upset? I just don't know what to do. Son seemed better this morning, I told him how great I felt and that life is a big book, and sometimes a chapter ends so a new one can begin. And I told him WE write the pages. He smiled a big smile and said he was glad I was happy. I think we'll be okay. But I do fear what H's relationship with the kids will be like. And how he'll come back at me like I told our son grown up things or whatever. But the kid is 8 going on 20. He figured it all out, in his own little kid way. He asked questions, I answered them. He asked if I knew who the girlfriend was and I said yes, an old friend from Vegas. And he asked why Vegas and I said that they dated in high school and found each other online. He had a weird look on his face and all I told him was that the arguing for the past 5 months was about me not liking daddy to be friends with her. And my son then said, "Mommy, she's more than a friend." And then he put it all together and said, "Daddy wants to be with her and not you." Heartbreaking. He was numb for a bit but then cried and let it out. I did not bash his father to him at all, I just said we are all human and make mistakes, and that he needed to pray to God for peace in his heart. I told him we go through things to make us stronger and teach us lessons. I reassured him that we'll be alright. He smiled, and then I laid with him while he sobbed himself to sleep. All while d!ckhead is sitting at his parents house happy as a clam talking to his girlfriend on the phone. Grrr.
> 
> Why is life so unfair? I can handle that he hurt me and shredded my heart, but why do my children have to feel that hurt too?


This isn't about you - it's about him. That's why I'd say something. He needs to know that his actions affect others (your kids). It can be freeing enough to say, 'look, I've accepted what's happened here. I can give 2 sh!ts what you do except when it comes to hurting our son. When kids are there, be smart enough to use a little discretion' - The same can go to his mom too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> This isn't about you - it's about him. That's why I'd say something. He needs to know that his actions affect others (your kids). It can be freeing enough to say, 'look, I've accepted what's happened here. I can give 2 sh!ts what you do except when it comes to hurting our son. When kids are there, be smart enough to use a little discretion' - The same can go to his mom too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right, I am pissed that a) our son had to find out the truth this way and b) that's how he found out we're not getting back together and c) H has taken no responsibility for the well being of our children during this.

He needs to realize that his relationship with his son is on shaky ground right now. The truth and the slip up on his mom's part have caused the cat to come tumbling out of the bag. The truth hurts. I can do all the comforting in the world, but I can't fix the damage done by this. He needs to man up and talk to his kid and face his decisions.


----------



## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> Can you believe it though? I'm completely appalled. What was she thinking?
> 
> So, just say he overhead and he's upset?


I think you should keep the part about doing your best to comfort him.


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## golfergirl

WhereAmI said:


> I think you should keep the part about doing your best to comfort him.


For sure - that too. Just not exactly what happened or came in through sliding door when he told me. These people are so dumb they get lost in details. Just he heard this - he's upset - I did my best - you have to fix it too - and shut up and get your bag of a mom to shut up in future. I'm done I don't care what u do but don't hurt our kids a$$hole. You must have majored in English, you are a good writer.
I'm wrestling with my baby - sorry for point form.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhereAmI

Short and sweet: 

Our son overheard his grandmother ask how your girlfriend was doing. Naturally, he's very upset, confused, and angry. I did my best to comfort him and let him know that we both love him very much. I would appreciate it if you and your family would consider your actions and conversations while around our children. 


If he responds you probably don't want to acknowledge it. If you decide to do so, give yourself some time to come up with something appropriate. There's no telling how his self-absorbed self will react. 

And wow, proof that his mom is blindly supporting him. Unfreakinbelievable. At least you have confirmation that she's not someone you can count on.


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## Jellybeans

Sorry to hear you are dealing with this Lonely. Your son is just the innocent bystander in all of this 

The next time he comes to get the kids, you could say to him in private: _Our son overheard his grandmother ask how your girlfriend was doing. Naturally, he's very upset, confused, and angry. I did my best to comfort him and let him know that we both love him very much. Jus twanted to give you a heads up so that you're aware this is on his mind and how its affecting him. I trust that you will have a conversation with him and explain to him what is going on. _

And then walk away.

Oh yeah baby, reality is setting in.


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Just not exactly what happened or came in through sliding door when he told me. These people are so dumb they get lost in details. Just he heard this - he's upset - I did my best - you have to fix it too - and shut up and get your bag of a mom to shut up in future. I'm done I don't care what u do but don't hurt our kids a$$hole. You must have majored in English, you are a good writer.
> I'm wrestling with my baby - sorry for point form.


Yeah, I get leaving the details out. I'm very detail oriented, so I guess I was setting the scene and letting him know that our son was bursting to let the information out. But I guess it's moot. I majored in psychology, lol, who'd of thunk? Haha. But I'm a decent writer. 



WhereAmI said:


> Short and sweet:
> 
> Our son overheard his grandmother ask how your girlfriend was doing. Naturally, he's very upset, confused, and angry. I did my best to comfort him and let him know that we both love him very much. I would appreciate it if you and your family would consider your actions and conversations while around our children.
> 
> If he responds you probably don't want to acknowledge it. If you decide to do so, give yourself some time to come up with something appropriate. There's no telling how his self-absorbed self will react.
> 
> And wow, proof that his mom is blindly supporting him. Unfreakinbelievable. At least you have confirmation that she's not someone you can count on.


I know, it is UNBELIEVABLE that she would say that. WTH? I've got some choice words I said about her last night. Funny that she was the one all worried about me posting a "very private issue on a public domain" and she's letting the cat out of the bag to our kids and he's posting pics of facebook! Do I even want to keep their last name at this point? :scratchhead:

Yeah, the response is going to be the challenge!


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Sorry to hear you are dealing with this Lonely. Your son is just the innocent bystander in all of this
> 
> The next time he comes to get the kids, you could say to him in private: _Our son overheard his grandmother ask how your girlfriend was doing. Naturally, he's very upset, confused, and angry. I did my best to comfort him and let him know that we both love him very much. Jus twanted to give you a heads up so that you're aware this is on his mind and how its affecting him. I trust that you will have a conversation with him and explain to him what is going on. _
> 
> And then walk away.
> 
> Oh yeah baby, reality is setting in.


I'm hurting for my son. That's way too much for an 8 year old to figure out and hear. I can already see the repercussions of H's behavior. My son didn't even speak to him about it, but he ran to me with it and opened a dialogue. He even asked me afterwards, "So, are you gonna call one of those lawyer guys?" but he meant "counselor" so that was good for a laugh. 

I do think short and sweet, with no emotion is best. Reality hasn't hit YET since he's unaware that this took place. But I think once he gets that email, reality is HITTING. I'm going to cc the mom on the email. Do you think I need to let him know that our son knows it all? That he put the pieces together? No matter what, he's going to blame me and say that I told him everything. But my fear is that H tries to smooth it over (thought I don't know how) and then tell him a bunch of lies and confuse him more. KWIM? Like would he say, "I've been unhappy with mommy for awhile so I decided I didn't want to be married and live with you guys any more. So I met someone new and she is my girlfriend." Even that would sound ridiculous. Oh what a tangled web we weave...


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## turnera

I'd be sending the same thing to WH's mother.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I'm hurting for my son. That's way too much for an 8 year old to figure out and hear. I can already see the repercussions of H's behavior. My son didn't even speak to him about it, but he ran to me with it and opened a dialogue. He even asked me afterwards, "So, are you gonna call one of those lawyer guys?" but he meant "counselor" so that was good for a laugh.
> 
> I do think short and sweet, with no emotion is best. Reality hasn't hit YET since he's unaware that this took place. But I think once he gets that email, reality is HITTING. I'm going to cc the mom on the email. Do you think I need to let him know that our son knows it all? That he put the pieces together? No matter what, he's going to blame me and say that I told him everything. But my fear is that H tries to smooth it over (thought I don't know how) and then tell him a bunch of lies and confuse him more. KWIM? Like would he say, "I've been unhappy with mommy for awhile so I decided I didn't want to be married and live with you guys any more. So I met someone new and she is my girlfriend." Even that would sound ridiculous. Oh what a tangled web we weave...


Your son is smart enough to know who has his best intentions at heart. As much as you want to protect him you can't orchestrate how these buffoons talk to him or even if they do. Mark it down for future reference. 
Not all parents can see past themselves for protecting their kids - the buffoons may be that type. I know my ex was. Some day I'll tell you crap he told my kids (told daughter I considered an abortion when pregnant with her - not true) just to discredit me. She never believed it and at 19 has poor relationship with her dad and always has. Hmm she was 8 when we split too...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> My son didn't even speak to him about it, but he ran to me with it and opened a dialogue. ...


I'm not surprised he has an open dialogue with you. You are the one he trusts most right now. You are the one with him every day while his dad has run off to escape his family. Keep being strong for him. 




LonelyNLost said:


> No matter what, he's going to blame me and say that I told him everything. But my fear is that H tries to smooth it over (thought I don't know how) and then tell him a bunch of lies and confuse him more. KWIM? Like would he say, "I've been unhappy with mommy for awhile so I decided I didn't want to be married and live with you guys any more. So I met someone new and she is my girlfriend." Even that would sound ridiculous. Oh what a tangled web we weave...


Your H is going to minimize the affair, no matter what. I can guarantee you that. For the very fact taht "I fell in love with someone else/have a sidepiece/girlfriend and that's why I left yu cause I'm happier now" sounds STUPID. So expect him to deflect and tell him "she's a friend/special friend/daddy and mommy don't get along anymore" or some other variation of a LIE. So what I would do if I were you is tell your husband what you were going to (NO emotions) and say very matter-of-factly: I am not going to cover up your affair for you so you need to tell him the truth. 

Then he's going to get mad at you but explain to him it's NOT YOUR JOB to hide the TRUTH from your kids. Not at all!

F him! He is the one who chose this, he needs to answer to this!

If your son asks you, tell him, Yes, daddy has a girlfriend. I wouldn't lie to him. Course that doesn't mean you go into the details but tell him the truth.

He will make up his own mind about his dad. So you just be cool as a cucumber, ok? Just keep your emotions out of it w/ your son and your H. 

I remember one woman that was a friend of my mother's trying to flirt with my dad when I was younger and I hated her violently. Kids are very protective of their parents. And that was just a one-time thing where I saw her socially. I gave her the cut-eye and made some nasty comments to her. She backed off REAL quick. 

I think you should send the email a few pages backl to OW WH*re's parents.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> I'd be sending the same thing to WH's mother.


I'm sending whatever I end up sending to BOTH of them. Maybe even his dad, too.



golfergirl said:


> Your son is smart enough to know who has his best intentions at heart. As much as you want to protect him you can't orchestrate how these buffoons talk to him or even if they do.


REALLY sad. But true.




Jellybeans said:


> Your H is going to minimize the affair, no matter what. I can guarantee you that. For the very fact taht "I fell in love with someone else/have a sidepiece/girlfriend and that's why I left yu cause I'm happier now" sounds STUPID. So expect him to deflect and tell him "she's a friend/special friend/daddy and mommy don't get along anymore" or some other variation of a LIE. So what I would do if I were you is tell your husband what you were going to (NO emotions) and say very matter-of-factly: *I am not going to cover up your affair for you so you need to tell him the truth. * Then he's going to get mad at you but explain to him it's NOT YOUR JOB to hide the TRUTH from your kids. Not at all!
> 
> If your son asks you, tell him, Yes, daddy has a girlfriend. I wouldn't lie to him. Course that doesn't mean you go into the details but tell him the truth.
> 
> He will make up his own mind about his dad. So you just be cool as a cucumber, ok? Just keep your emotions out of it w/ your son and your H


I like that. But, my son did ask questions, and I did give him answers, in as much of an appropriate way that I could. I kept MY emotions out of it, and just matter of factly stated that I had to protect myself and that the kids were my priority, and I was sorry this has happened and he had to find out this way, but we will be alright. I did not badmouth H, just said that he's making choices that aren't the best, but that's his to deal with. We can only control how we handle ourselves. He put the pieces together rather quickly, and he knows the truth. I need H to realize that our son put it together, because if he tries to lie to him and say he just met her or whatever, he's going to look like a big liar and look even worse than he does now. I tend to think my son would believe me, he's the one who has seen my pain. He's heard enough bits and pieces that he's figured it all out. And he's mad as well as sad. 



> I think you should send the email a few pages backl to OW WH*re's parents.


Yes, I guess I still will. I won't be lying now when I talk about the anguish it's caused my kids. I need to get him to a counselor ASAP. I can't imagine learning about cheating at such a young age. He's got to see his dad through different colored lenses now I'm sure.


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## tamara24

I agree with the short and sweet. The only thing is I think a lot gets lost in tranlation with email and your hubby is still trying to minimize the situation cause he doesn't want to look bad. I would wait until hubby picks him up and say what the short and sweet note said and look him in the eye. Again, its the idea that hey buster, I am not as stupid as you believe me to me. Then of course, he will say something snotty and then you say the thing I told you about honesty and stds.then walk away!

When I get back in the house send short and sweet note to granny. And add since my son is having a difficult time working out why dad is not here with him, I would appreciate you not discussing my husbands infedelity in front of our son. He is confused enough.

You are lucky to be getting rid of that trailer trash. Keep the last name so your kkids don't have the confusing deal of explainingg why their last name is different than yours. Right now they need to know you are a untited family. No changes for them right now.

Hugs!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> I agree with the short and sweet. The only thing is I think a lot gets lost in tranlation with email and your hubby is still trying to minimize the situation cause he doesn't want to look bad. I would wait until hubby picks him up and say what the short and sweet note said and look him in the eye. Again, its the idea that hey buster, I am not as stupid as you believe me to me. Then of course, he will say something snotty and then you say the thing I told you about honesty and stds.then walk away!
> 
> When I get back in the house send short and sweet note to granny. And add since my son is having a difficult time working out why dad is not here with him, I would appreciate you not discussing my husbands infedelity in front of our son. He is confused enough.
> 
> You are lucky to be getting rid of that trailer trash. Keep the last name so your kkids don't have the confusing deal of explainingg why their last name is different than yours. Right now they need to know you are a untited family. No changes for them right now.
> 
> Hugs!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good points! But he seriously does what he can to avoid me. I don't think I'd have a chance to say what I need to say. Plus, with the email, he'd have no way of replying snotty, it's there in writing, for the record. But I do see what you're saying. 

I do feel good getting rid of him. I guess I'll keep the last name, especially since I'm a teacher and that's what I'm known by. Plus one of my students got me a really cute lunch bag today with my last name on it. LOL. I did discuss with my son how I wanted him to be involved in decisions and be able to tell me how he feels. God, I hope he comes out of this okay. It's my biggest concern.


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## turnera

"I got two good things out of you: my son and a name my students like."


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> "I got two good things out of you: my son and a name my students like."


:rofl: Don't forget my beautiful daughter. Her birthday is on Mother's Day, she'll be 3. Luckily, she's really not going to remember any of this. She is affected, and asks questions all the time that I don't know how to answer. I don't like telling her that daddy doesn't want to be married to mommy anymore, but she is always asking why I don't come with them when he picks them up.  I feel bad for her, because I can't do much for her birthday. The trip to Disney was for her, and we'll have cake and presents at my grandmother's house on Sunday. He didn't even say anything about it. Just told my son he might take them to the zoo next weekend for her birthday. And I guess he won't acknowledge Mother's Day for me. That's what I get for not wishing him a happy birthday.


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## golfergirl

turnera said:


> "I got two good things out of you: my son and a name my students like."


3 don't forget daughter!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24

Well personally, I think it is time to have him stop avoiding you. He is only doing it cause he feels like the a-- he is. These kids are part of a life that you two will have to share together whether you are married to the man or not. The reason I say this to you, is because when we first had kids,we had to do everything seperatley because hubby's parents went through horrible divorce. After fifteen years they still refused to be in the same room with one another. It cost us twice of everything to do this and we DARED not menton the other's name. Finally, when my kids were getting seriously ill and we had to juggle who was seeing the kids when(not that it was often) I had enough! I told them they were grown adults and this was for their grandkids and it was time they put their feelings aside for one another and enjoy their grandkids or don't come if they can't behave.

His father elected not to come and he is the one that has missed out. My kids barely know him. His mom is very manipulative and self serving but she at least knows the kid's birthdays.

My point is that you do not want this for your kids. It is horrible. Birthdays, Christmas,graduations,baptisms,you will see him at these things so you two need to learn how to get along. For nothing else but these kids! It may be hard/difficult but you need to muddle through it.
Right now wounds are to fresh and deep,but maybe later you will feel comfortable in saying,how about you come over Christmas morning to watch the kids open gifts. Or hey we are having little joes party at the skating rink, it would be nice if you could help me set up and stay for the party. The better the two of you work together,your kids will feel even more secure even though you are not together.

He really needs to man up. I think that is why,I am pushing you to make him talk. Not to get you back together,but because you have two little gifts from God that don't deserve to feel insecure cause dad won't talk.this is not about him or the vegas trash,it is about the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> :rofl: Don't forget my beautiful daughter. Her birthday is on Mother's Day, she'll be 3.


Eek! Sorry!


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## Jellybeans

tamara24 said:


> You are lucky to be getting rid of that trailer trash.


:rofl:

Yeah you might as well and talk w/ him like Tamara said. I would keep it concise and to the point. No emotions. Just all of the above about your son finding out and how he should talk to him, that you won't cover for him and you wish him luck in his life (though really you wish him a lifetime of ****roach infestations--but that is for you to keep in your mind only, mmmkay?)

I think the sooner you file divorce, the better so you can be done with this BS. He is waffling on filing cause he's too much of a pvssy to face what he's done and the financial repercussions won't be so fun for him. D!ck!


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## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> Good points! But he seriously does what he can to avoid me. I don't think I'd have a chance to say what I need to say. *Plus, with the email, he'd have no way of replying snotty, it's there in writing, for the record. *But I do see what you're saying.


I agree. And if it comes to custody, you'll have proof that you tried to address a horrible situation in a positive manner.


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## LonelyNLost

Great points, tamara, and I do agree. However, at this point, he's in some weird place. Yes, he's a typical wayward, but I do think he also realizes he's a pile of monkey sh!t. He can't face me. The last conversation (well only one in a month) was ugly, but we are civil for the most part in person. The kids haven't seen anything positive or negative as far as interactions, and my son now understands. I think I'll send the email tonight. 

Last night he texted me about the kids after he picked them up and our son told him he was dropping them at the neighbors. So he sent me a text asking if he was dropping them there. I replied that I wasn't sure, I had somewhere to go and might not be back by 7:30. He then was all nice and offered to bathe them and keep them until 8. I said fine, and he replied in a manner to clarify all he would do for them and almost like he was wanting a "thanks". I then texted him to tell him I wouldn't be there by 8, so take them to neighbors. He replies okay, but tells me all he did for them (bathe, milk, snack, etc.). He freaking wanted a thank you! I said, "great". He then asked what time I'd be there because he might go in and say hello to neighbors if that's alright. He's asking permission? WTH? 

But here's what's going on now. Tell me what you think of the way he's addressing me. 

M:"I'd like to sync my iPod but you took my cord. Can I have it back please?

H: Yes. I forgot that was yours. Would you like me to bring it Tuesday when I get the kids or do you need it sooner?

M: Can you bring it to work tomorrow and I will come get it from you.

H: I will do that. I will be on my bike so text me before you come or when you get there.

M: I will just come in. I need to also talk to you about something.

H: At my work? I am on my own tomorrow so it is going to be difficult to have any kind of conversation and my job is not an appropriate place.

M: Calm down. I just needed to say something.

H: I'm not upset, I'm just saying I don't think my job is an appropriate place. I don't want any type of confrontation at my work.

I'm not responding.

HE'S FREAKING SCARED! PVSSY! He's probably going to sit racking his brain all day and night trying to figure out what I want to say. Haha.


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## Jellybeans

You shouldn't have even told him you wanted to talk to him beforehand, just sprung it on him.
You could write back, Ok no problem, see you then. 
When you stop by tomorrow, you can tell him in privacy.
No emotions, remember.
And yes, he is a total pvssy. Can dish it out but can't take it.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> You shouldn't have even told him you wanted to talk to him beforehand, just sprung it on him.
> You could write back, Ok no problem, see you then.
> When you stop by tomorrow, you can tell him in privacy.
> No emotions, remember.
> And yes, he is a total pvssy. Can dish it out but can't take it.


I think I'm just going to send the email tomorrow night. And I'll just tell him to check his email when I get the cord.

Can't sort this all out. I feel like doing nothing, honestly. But I have to advocate for the kids. 

It's enough that he's going to be sweating it all night.


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## tamara24

He doesn't want you to confront him about the OW. What part of keeping him guessing was that? Now the man will have a snotty response for anything you say cause he has all night to have his comebacks ready. 

He needs to realize not every conversation is going to be a fight and he has to grow up. No feelings showing iin the am. Just say what needs to be said. Than you for the cord,I appreciate you bringing it for me. Then in your mind say Jack a--!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> He doesn't want you to confront him about the OW. What part of keeping him guessing was that? Now the man will have a snotty response for anything you say cause he has all night to have his comebacks ready.
> 
> He needs to realize not every conversation is going to be a fight and he has to grow up. No feelings showing iin the am. Just say what needs to be said. Than you for the cord,I appreciate you bringing it for me. Then in your mind say Jack a--!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I think I'm going to send the emails in the morning. Then I will go get the cord, say thanks, and then I'll just say "Check your e-mail."


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, just sent this to his mom. Hope it's alright!

_I understand your need to defend your son. You and I both know he has been involved in an extramarital affair, and he has abandoned his family to be with the other woman. You all can spin your tales about growing apart, and being unhappy, but the justification for breaking our marriage vows is not acceptable and never will be. I realize he is your son and you love and will stand by him. Unfortunately, you are now stuck in the situation of trying to hide the truth from everyone, and figuring out how to introduce her into your life legitimately. Coming clean would dishonor your son, and I’d never ask you to do that. 

There is nothing negative to say about me because I’ve done nothing wrong. This doesn’t excuse the disrespect he’s handed out to me over and over again, which shows his true character. Worse than saying bad things about me is posting a picture of him and his affair partner together on a “public domain” before he’s even filed for divorce. Do you have any idea how many people have contacted me asking about THAT? And contrary to what you believe, no one is running him into the ground but himself. 

I only ask that you and I can remain cordial with one another, and that you and **** are there for the kids, as they deserve the best through this most difficult and traumatic time in their lives. Hopefully you will take this opportunity to become more involved in their lives than you have in the past, and that will be something positive to come out of all this. I am being honest when I say that it’s pretty substantial to me that you supported *** cheating on his wife and abandoning his own family so he could play family with his new female of choice, destroying several lives in the process. However, I will not come between my children’s relationship with their family members.

I wish you all the best in life. One more aside, that you may not be aware of, needs to be made clear. Since ***** is having a difficult time working out why dad is not here with him, I would appreciate you not discussing my husband’s infidelity in front of him. He is confused enough. Your little slip up the other night turned into a rather heart-wrenching evening for us at home. I only pray that good values will be instilled in my children so that history does not repeat itself. I hope that I will never find myself watching my own grandchildren go through this. _


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## hesnothappy

That is an exceptional letter to Granny. Honest and complete and forthright. Job well done. She ought to be shamed into a response.


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## LonelyNLost

I don't think she'll respond, and if she does it won't be nice. But here's my letter to H now...

_I just wanted to give you a heads up about something that occurred on Thursday evening. Our son overheard his grandmother ask how your girlfriend was doing, along with your response of “shh”. Naturally, he's very upset, confused, and angry. I did my best to comfort him and let him know that we both love him very much. Just wanted to give you a heads up so that you're aware that this is on his mind and how it’s affecting him. I trust that you will have a conversation with him and explain to him what is going on. It would also be wise if you and your family would consider your actions and conversations while around our children. Your choices are yours and yours alone to make. I’ve accepted what’s happened here, and have nothing more to say about it except for when it comes to our kids. When the kids are there, please shield them from this, just as I do when they are with me. 

I’ve also come to the conclusion that having the kids call you each night at our arranged time has become an issue. You’ve spent years working night hours and in all reality, they aren’t used to talking to you every day. I think it would be best for your relationship with the kids if you were the one reaching out to them each night to make that phone call. You are their father and you deserve to communicate with them and I will not stand in the way of that. If you want to talk to them, call. If they want to talk to you, they’ll call. No restrictions on when. And when they are with you, if I want to talk to them, I’ll call. In talking to a therapist about this, they brought up the point that this shows them love. The way it stands, it’s become a chore sometimes, maybe because they are playing or busy or whatever. It actually stresses me out each night, and I end up just hitting send and handing him to the phone. I feel, on the contrary, that you calling him would play out a lot more positively. The parent that is not with them needs to be putting forth the effort of reaching out to show them they are missed and loved and this would be an easy way to do that. If I am not with them with you call, then I will give you a number where you can reach them, although I don’t anticipate that being the case very often. I think it would mean a lot to them to have YOU reach out each evening to ask about their day, and for me to do the same when they are with you. 
_

Can't wait to hear his response to that one. Booya!


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## LonelyNLost

You think I should hammer the one out to OW's parents while I'm on a roll? I was thinking maybe tonight, because then they'll tell her about tomorrow on Mother's Day. Either way, it's not going to be pretty. Mwuahahahaha! REALITY IS HITTING!


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## hesnothappy

Again, job well done. I bet Granny is reading and re-reading that email. She has to save face for her acceptance of her son's actions. For her to think that you would share with other's especially your side of the family of her actions is gonna eat her up. No self respecting grandmother would allow the negative actions of her child to be put before the world for scrutiny. Her son has a rigt to find happiness, as do you...but responsiblity of actions is not a choice of ours to make. Good luck in all you do. And we both have to walk with our head held high for doing what is best as we see fit.


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## tamara24

Well I don't think any self respecting mom would be allowing their child to have an extramarital affair and say it ok, as long as your happy! Life is not like that. There are always bumps in the road and there are some people that are not meant to be together,but you wait until you are divorced to do it!

Letters were nice! A little on the feeling side for MIL but sounded great! Letter to hubby was great,matter of fact. How did he react this morning? I am so very proud of you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

hesnothappy said:


> Again, job well done. I bet Granny is reading and re-reading that email. She has to save face for her acceptance of her son's actions. For her to think that you would share with other's especially your side of the family of her actions is gonna eat her up. No self respecting grandmother would allow the negative actions of her child to be put before the world for scrutiny. Her son has a rigt to find happiness, as do you...but responsiblity of actions is not a choice of ours to make. Good luck in all you do. And we both have to walk with our head held high for doing what is best as we see fit.


Thanks.  I don't think she'll respond, but I feel like I have my closure anyhow. 



tamara24 said:


> Well I don't think any self respecting mom would be allowing their child to have an extramarital affair and say it ok, as long as your happy! Life is not like that. There are always bumps in the road and there are some people that are not meant to be together,but you wait until you are divorced to do it!
> 
> Letters were nice! A little on the feeling side for MIL but sounded great! Letter to hubby was great,matter of fact. How did he react this morning? I am so very proud of you!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, that's exactly his parent's motto, "whatever makes you happy". She stated in the previous email that, "We just want both of you to be happy, and that might mean you won't be together." I think she'll take a lot of it as a jab at her, but I don't care. She's in self-defense mode just as he is. 

His mom is very flighty, so the feely is what will reach her. I haven't gone to see H yet. I am cleaning the house and getting some chores done before my mom comes into town tonight. I am going to shower and head up there. I'll just tell him I sent him an email, which he will of course then read immediately. So that should be interesting.  But I really don't think there's anything to get pissy about. I didn't even say "you're having an affair" because he knows I know. Jerkoff.

Thanks for the encouragement! By golly, I think I'm getting a handle on this whole thing. Finally. LOL. And my new "friend" is totally boosting my ego. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to talk to someone with so much positivity after being with Mr. Pessimism for 14 years!


----------



## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> You think I should hammer the one out to OW's parents while I'm on a roll?



YES. DOOOOO it!!!!

Lonely, your emails were good. Please remember. when his mom writes you back or he does, WAIT 48 hours before responding and check in w/ us ok. That is so you don'tn go off and say somethingn you will regret later, mkay???


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> YES. DOOOOO it!!!!
> 
> Lonely, your emails were good. Please remember. when his mom writes you back or he does, WAIT 48 hours before responding and check in w/ us ok. That is so you don'tn go off and say somethingn you will regret later, mkay???


Yes, got it! You guys are my official proofreaders, haha. Those letters were a combo of the ones you guys suggested and I read them to my mom and friend first. I'll work on the one to skank's parents tonight or tomorrow night. Off to hang with my family! Spent all day having a cute guy text me back and forth. He's sweet on me and I like it.


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## Crankshaw

LonelyNLost said:


> Yes, got it! You guys are my official proofreaders, haha. Those letters were a combo of the ones you guys suggested and I read them to my mom and friend first. I'll work on the one to skank's parents tonight or tomorrow night. Off to hang with my family! Spent all day having a cute guy text me back and forth. He's sweet on me and I like it.


:smthumbup:


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> YES. DOOOOO it!!!!
> 
> Lonely, your emails were good. Please remember. when his mom writes you back or he does, WAIT 48 hours before responding and check in w/ us ok. That is so you don'tn go off and say somethingn you will regret later, mkay???


Ditto to above. Great emails!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crusheddreams

great emails and nice to see you moving on with your life.


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## Crankshaw

nice 'Bi*ch' mode L&L, very well done


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## LonelyNLost

Love you all! Mwuah! 

So here's H's response. What a cop out. I guess I shouldn't let him know that this comment became a lead in for the truth being revealed.  And he actually called my phone at about 8:30 but I was out with my mom and told him I'd have the kids call. He then asked what I thought about a cell phone and I told him no, that he was too young and might lose it and/or show off.

_I will talk to ***** about what he overheard. The comment my mom was not in the context that you or him think it was, however, I understand that it could have been interpreted by him that way. He overheard one piece of a conversation and I did not say "shhh" to my mother when she said it. I wish he would have said something to me that evening so that I could explain the context of the conversation, though he has been unable to open up to me at this point and has said he doesnt talk to me out of fear that he will upset me. I have attempted to reassure him that nothing he says to me will upset me, that I love him very much, I am here for him to talk to whenever he wants, and that I would like him to be able to talk to me about things, but I understand that he is uncomfortable discussing things with me at this time.

In regards to phone calls to the kids, I was wondering if at all possible if I could just get ***** a cell phone of his own, I will take responsibility for the bill, that way both you and I can contact him whenever we want. I understand that he is young for a phone but feel that he is responsible enough to have a phone and it would alleviate a lot of stress on both our parts. I have no problems whatsoever reaching out to the kids at all and do not want him or yourself to feel as though it is a chore. I just thought an arrangement like we had was logical because it was an arranged time that we knew we could speak with the kids. I agree it may mean more to the kids if we reach out to them. ***** having his own phone would make contacting the kids that much easier for both of us. Please let me know if this would be alright with you.
_

So, does it even warrant a response since I told him I didn't like the idea on the phone? And boy was he nice to me during that call. Freaking weird. Love how he excuses the conversation. His mom did NOT write back.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Love you all! Mwuah!
> 
> So here's H's response. What a cop out. I guess I shouldn't let him know that this comment became a lead in for the truth being revealed.  And he actually called my phone at about 8:30 but I was out with my mom and told him I'd have the kids call. He then asked what I thought about a cell phone and I told him no, that he was too young and might lose it and/or show off.
> 
> _I will talk to ***** about what he overheard. The comment my mom was not in the context that you or him think it was, however, I understand that it could have been interpreted by him that way. He overheard one piece of a conversation and I did not say "shhh" to my mother when she said it. I wish he would have said something to me that evening so that I could explain the context of the conversation, though he has been unable to open up to me at this point and has said he doesnt talk to me out of fear that he will upset me. I have attempted to reassure him that nothing he says to me will upset me, that I love him very much, I am here for him to talk to whenever he wants, and that I would like him to be able to talk to me about things, but I understand that he is uncomfortable discussing things with me at this time.
> 
> In regards to phone calls to the kids, I was wondering if at all possible if I could just get ***** a cell phone of his own, I will take responsibility for the bill, that way both you and I can contact him whenever we want. I understand that he is young for a phone but feel that he is responsible enough to have a phone and it would alleviate a lot of stress on both our parts. I have no problems whatsoever reaching out to the kids at all and do not want him or yourself to feel as though it is a chore. I just thought an arrangement like we had was logical because it was an arranged time that we knew we could speak with the kids. I agree it may mean more to the kids if we reach out to them. ***** having his own phone would make contacting the kids that much easier for both of us. Please let me know if this would be alright with you.
> _
> 
> So, does it even warrant a response since I told him I didn't like the idea on the phone? And boy was he nice to me during that call. Freaking weird. Love how he excuses the conversation. His mom did NOT write back.


If cell phone has been addressed - nope don't bother. He said he'd talk to son, admits kid doesn't trust him and I'd say you have success!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> If cell phone has been addressed - nope don't bother. He said he'd talk to son, admits kid doesn't trust him and I'd say you have success!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I was happy with it. Expected some lame ass excusee, so of course I got that. And some fluffy words about how he's tried to get son to talk, but he won't. Surprised he didn't blame tha ton me, actually. Hope his mom feels like crap. Haha. Should I text her a "Happy Mother's Day" today? :smthumbup:


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## Jellybeans

Haappy mothers day lonely. No....do not text his mom. If hub wants to get a cell phone. For son tell him that u he can call u to discuss it further. His lies are catching up to him. That entire first paragraph he sent u....he has egg on his face and is juuuuuuust starting to see the surface crack. Good. Don't talk to him bout anything other than the cell if u see him todaay ok????? What's up with ur lawyer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Haappy mothers day lonely. No....do not text his mom. If hub wants to get a cell phone. For son tell him that u he can call u to discuss it further. His lies are catching up to him. That entire first paragraph he sent u....he has egg on his face and is juuuuuuust starting to see the surface crack. Good. Don't talk to him bout anything other than the cell if u see him todaay ok????? What's up with ur lawyer?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you! And a great Mother's Day it was.  Seriously, life is good. 

H called me last night while I was out with my mom, and he brought up the cell phone issue (before I'd read email) and I made it clear that I thought he was too young and not a good idea at this time. 

Seeing lawyer this Thursday, as long as my money gets deposited. I'm at this point of fearing nothing, as I want to end this chapter of my life and start the next one.


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## KathyGriffinFan

LonelyNLost said:


> Thank you! And a great Mother's Day it was.  Seriously, life is good.
> 
> H called me last night while I was out with my mom, and he brought up the cell phone issue (before I'd read email) and I made it clear that I thought he was too young and not a good idea at this time.
> 
> Seeing lawyer this Thursday, as long as my money gets deposited. I'm at this point of fearing nothing, as I want to end this chapter of my life and start the next one.


Yay, good for you!!


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## tamara24

Happy Mother's Day! Don't even acknowledge his stupidity. I am sure mommy will tell him about your email. I find it funny he did not explain to you in what context grandma meant when she asked about his girlfriend????

No,to the phone. It is also another way of him not talking to you as an avoidence method. People need to learn to communicate without email and text. Also, at this point, you don't want son starting to sneak call when he gets mad at you and vis versa. He is dealing with a lot right now and you need to be able to monitor the situation. Not saying your kid is sneaky, but kids in these situations can find ways to manipulate the parents and he has one parent that has already been a role model for manipulation.

You are doing great! Did you email OW's parents?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Happy Mother's Day! Don't even acknowledge his stupidity. I am sure mommy will tell him about your email. I find it funny he did not explain to you in what context grandma meant when she asked about his girlfriend????
> 
> No,to the phone. It is also another way of him not talking to you as an avoidence method. People need to learn to communicate without email and text. Also, at this point, you don't want son starting to sneak call when he gets mad at you and vis versa. He is dealing with a lot right now and you need to be able to monitor the situation. Not saying your kid is sneaky, but kids in these situations can find ways to manipulate the parents and he has one parent that has already been a role model for manipulation.
> 
> You are doing great! Did you email OW's parents?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha, MIL and FIL deleted me off facebook. Guess she didn't like the email? 

I say no to the phone as well, and see it the same way. He doesn't want to talk to me. Didn't even ask about daughter's birthday plans for today. He is too young. And he wants to give his phone to our son so he can get a new smartphone. I see right through it. 

And my son is a great kid, but he is sneaky. He'd show the phone off to others, chances are he'd lose it, and it would just be bad all around. Too young. I don't want manipulation added onto my plate to deal with. And H does need to grow a pair and learn how to communicate and be in the same room as me. 

No email to OW's parents yet. I'm enjoying my weekend. And my special friend.


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, wow, I think I'm getting myself in trouble with my new "friend". We talked for 4 hours last night, until 3am. Just laughing about things and breaking the ice. He's amazingly positive and he's gone through a divorce and a horrible rebound relationship. He said he doesn't want to be the rebound guy, but he wants to help me and is just fine being my friend for now. He wants me to take time to heal before getting involved with him or anyone. I respect that, and he actually has his own fears. However, I'm not sure how to handle this all. What kind of boundaries do I set? Just don't go hang out with him and keep it to just texts and phone calls? He wants to be my facebook friend, and I think that's allowing him into a pretty personal place. I like the attention, but I know I'm treading on dangerous ground. Advice? Please don't rip my head off. And I promise it's not just about the attention, this guy and I have a TON in common and almost the same exact sense of humor. He says he'd be happy to just be my friend, no expectations. I am not going to become physical or anything with him, and I'm sure in the heck not starting a relationship with him or bringing him around my kids. Nothing for H to use against me.

It's almost too good to be true. I'm afraid of waking up one day and crashing because I covered up the ugly with perfume, or the wound with a bandaid. Could I really be over what my husband has done? I almost feel like since he cheated before, I dealt with a lot of those emotions then. I dealt with the self-esteem problems, the questions, etc. This time I've been dealing with the same, but I know his actions aren't a reflection of me. The uncertainty and limbo sucked, and I think I did a fair amount of detaching during those months before he left the house and moved out. 2 months now since we separated, and I have my closure, and I'm ready to move on with my life. I have no problem being alone. My kids are first and foremost, I promise. I only talk to this guy when they are in bed. And he's really a gentleman, not crossing any lines of inappropriateness. 

Okay, let me have it.  And if it's going too fast, what do I do? I don't think I could just cut him out of my life because it's too soon. I really want to get to know him. I don't know if it will become anything, and I doubt he'll be my next husband. But I just want to get out and have fun and enjoy someone's company.


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## WhereAmI

Can you see yourself not crossing the line with your new friend? Will you be able to resist until the divorce is final or beyond if that's what you _need_? 

I think keeping him off of FB until the divorce is final is a good idea. Your husband would be quick to point out that you're "doing the same thing he did." You know, since he only moved on when you were separated (ha). It's not so much about him, but how people would view the situation.


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## Jellybeans

It's already going far if you're on the phone with him til the wee hours of the morning.

Focus on you and your kids right now., After the divorce (has it even nbeen filed) you can think about dating and whatnot. 

You are very very vulnerable right now and this guy must know that.

your kids are already dealing with teh pain of seeing one parent go off w/ someone else. Lead by example for them. I think you need some time alone.


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## tamara24

Just keep it to the phone right now. If you take that step forward into going out even if it is hanging out as frriends, you are still married. No matter what your hubby did,the divorce is not final. It is not just about you,but you also want to show the kids(maybe down the line) your marraige was broken but you respected your vows until your divorce was final. Their dad did not. Be the example right now. I understand the flattery and attention makes you feel better. But you do not want to jump from one frying pan into another. You need time to heal,you may have detached and accepted what your hubby has done,but you are still hurt,angry and still dealing with the divorce process yourself.

What if this guy is supposed to be "the one". If you do not take care of YOUR issues,you will carry it into your next relationship. It will end just as badly. You need to take time for yourself. Work on yourself. Sit down and breathe for a minute before jumping into something else. Talking is not doing anything,but you know as wellas we do. If you go"hang out just as friends" there will be a kiss, then it will go further. Right now, you have to focus on the present and get through this before adding on another issue to your plate. Take your time. If he is a good guy,he will wait.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I think that if you can't go a whole week without talking to this 'friend' then you're already too close.

Have you contacted OW's parents yet?


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## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> Can you see yourself not crossing the line with your new friend? Will you be able to resist until the divorce is final or beyond if that's what you _need_?
> 
> I think keeping him off of FB until the divorce is final is a good idea. Your husband would be quick to point out that you're "doing the same thing he did." You know, since he only moved on when you were separated (ha). It's not so much about him, but how people would view the situation.


Great points. Although H would have no idea I was friends with someone new. But I can see how people might question it if he and I did start dating. I think I can keep from crossing the line. I'm afraid of myself, I think, right now. And I would hate to end up ruining someone because I'm not ready.



Jellybeans said:


> It's already going far if you're on the phone with him til the wee hours of the morning.
> 
> Focus on you and your kids right now., After the divorce (has it even nbeen filed) you can think about dating and whatnot.
> 
> You are very very vulnerable right now and this guy must know that.
> 
> your kids are already dealing with teh pain of seeing one parent go off w/ someone else. Lead by example for them. I think you need some time alone.


I know I'm not ready to date, but I do enjoy his friendship. I had no idea last night would have turned out how it did. Great conversation, he's an awesome guy. And he knows I'm vulnerable which is why he's saying he's fine being a friend. I would not let my kids even know that I'm talking to someone for a very long time, and I wouldn't progress it to anything until my divorce was well underway. I'm just feeling a lot of emotions and I'm torn. 



tamara24 said:


> Just keep it to the phone right now. If you take that step forward into going out even if it is hanging out as frriends, you are still married. No matter what your hubby did,the divorce is not final. It is not just about you,but you also want to show the kids(maybe down the line) your marraige was broken but you respected your vows until your divorce was final. Their dad did not. Be the example right now. I understand the flattery and attention makes you feel better. But you do not want to jump from one frying pan into another. You need time to heal,you may have detached and accepted what your hubby has done,but you are still hurt,angry and still dealing with the divorce process yourself.
> 
> What if this guy is supposed to be "the one". If you do not take care of YOUR issues,you will carry it into your next relationship. It will end just as badly. You need to take time for yourself. Work on yourself. Sit down and breathe for a minute before jumping into something else. Talking is not doing anything,but you know as wellas we do. If you go"hang out just as friends" there will be a kiss, then it will go further. Right now, you have to focus on the present and get through this before adding on another issue to your plate. Take your time. If he is a good guy,he will wait.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good way of looking at it. I would hate to ruin something that has the potential of being something great because I wasn't ready for it. I've been working for months on my contribution to this marriage's failure. I think in that regards I can approach a new relationship with a different set of eyes, but the biggest thing is figuring out what I'm ready for as far as healing. He is a good guy, and he's said he will wait. Hasn't pressured me at all. That's comforting. But maybe this is silly, I'm worried that I'll build this huge emotional attachment to him now, and if we wait to meet that will only grow, but then what if we finally do meet and it was all a false sense of chemistry? That would be a huge letdown. Idk. Maybe that's silly thinking. I told you I'm all over the place with this. 

My head is in the clouds and I need to get more grounded. I do feel like I want to come out of this clean as a whistle, and that wouldn't happen if I were involved with someone else.



turnera said:


> I think that if you can't go a whole week without talking to this 'friend' then you're already too close.
> 
> Have you contacted OW's parents yet?


I think I could, and I think he would. But I'd miss talking to him and texting him. This is really new, like I just started talking to him like 10 days ago. 

Haven't contacted OW's parents. Should I even bother at this point? It will start a war and I just don't care. She can have his sorry ass.


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## Niceguy13

My thoughts on friend LnL if you feel the need to ask what is to close to be dangerous then its to close to be dangerous. Full grown mature adults that aren't in pain don't have to "ask for permission" the fact that you are unaware of hat boundries you need tos et with friend and that you are already worried he is to close says you need to back him down some and back yourself down some. 

I would suggest public meetings dayime phone calls only.


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## Jellybeans

Niceguy13 said:


> My thoughts on friend LnL if you feel the need to ask what is to close to be dangerous then its to close to be dangerous.


Very true!


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## LonelyNLost

Niceguy13 said:


> My thoughts on friend LnL if you feel the need to ask what is to close to be dangerous then its to close to be dangerous. Full grown mature adults that aren't in pain don't have to "ask for permission" the fact that you are unaware of hat boundries you need tos et with friend and that you are already worried he is to close says you need to back him down some and back yourself down some.
> 
> I would suggest public meetings dayime phone calls only.


Yeah, good point, Niceguy. I just don't want to rebound and end up getting hurt or hurting someone else. So I want to take this slow, and get my divorce final before I'm falling in love with someone. But I'm definitely in "like" with him. A friend with romantic possibilities, I suppose. I'll focus on myself and my kids for now, and set the boundaries at friendship. There's nothing wrong with talking to him, though, and texting throughout the day. He's really into me, though, but not pushing and is leaving the ball in my court. Like last night I didn't hear from him, but then he texted me at 1:30am to say he had fallen asleep and to please forgive him, lol. Then he texted again at 4am to say sweet dreams. 

I think I'd like to meet him for breakfast or something, though. Maybe even with friends along. But for now, I'm worrying about myself and healing. I'd hate to drag baggage into a new relationship and I'd hate to hurt him. 

I'm definitely seeing the lawyer on Thursday, though, as my money should be deposited today. Yay! I never thought I'd be sitting here this happy about what's going to happen, and being glad I get to start the D ball rolling. Amazing how much difference some time makes.


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## Jellybeans

Kudos on the money deposit and the lawyer.


----------



## turnera

I'm sorry, Lonely, but it is NOT appropriate for you to be receiving texts from another man at 1am OR 4am. It's just not. You can couch it in as nice a terms as you can think of, but you're still married. You still have feelings for your husband, no matter how you try to pretend you don't. 

Tell your 'friend' that this is getting too close and you need to back off for a month or two.


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## WhereAmI

I agree. How late would your male friends text if you were in a loving marriage? You should let him know that texting beyond that time isn't acceptable. If you don't set real boundaries now you will end up involving yourself in a relationship with this guy when you should be concentrating on healing.

I'm glad you're at peace with the divorce, now.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Yes, I know, I'm so afraid of a rebound it's not even funny. I will just tell him let's take it slow and not talk late at night or send texts between the hours of midnight and 6am. I do understand that I'm still married on paper, so I'm not looking to go run off and move in with my new friend. Honestly, I'm the most cautious person in the world. The thought of meeting up with him is exciting but also makes me nervous as heck. I will take some time and see how if things change with the way I feel. But I seriously don't feel like I'm trying to "forget" H by being absorbed into a rebound. It's nice to have a distraction, but I think I'm approaching it the right way. And my friend says that he can sense that I'm still bitter, and that means I'm not healed. And he also said rebounds were necessary for a lot of people, but he wouldn't be that rebound. He said he hasn't dated anyone in 3 years, but he seems to be getting attached kind of fast. Could he be rebounding after 3 years?

I am trying to figure out what exactly I should be doing to heal. I know I'm not 100%, but I feel really good and I KNOW I'm going to be okay. I'm focusing on myself and what's important...my kids and my job. I'm enjoying being alone, and I don't sit and miss him at all. I'm sort of repulsed by the sight of my H, and the thought of being with him again. Yes, there are good memories, but I don't really think I was as happy as I thought I was. 

I'm still fairly young, with an opportunity to find someone that is everything I want in a man. I have the opportunity to find myself again and be that carefree person I once was. I wouldn't take H back for anything, because he's not what I need for happiness. That chapter is over. I don't hear a song and think of him, I don't see things that remind me of him, and the empty closet doesn't bug me at all. That's why I'm sitting and wondering if this is temporary. Could it really be this easy? Instead of sitting and drawing out the process of detaching, it happened in what seems like an abrupt way. I think subconsciously I was letting go in the past few months, even though it seemed like I was clinging like a vine. 

You know how I said I tell everyone the whole story and they are amazed at my restraint, and even in the bitterness I'm just now getting over, I haven't gone crazy and acted out against him or really screamed at him or broke things. Maybe it's because I was letting go? It sure felt like I was grasping at straw and being desperate, but I did sort of withdraw. I tried everything and I'm at peace with that.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Could he be rebounding after 3 years?


I doubt it. It seems he approached it the right away--took time after a long relationshp to heal and be alone. You on the other hand, would more than likely rebound. Being that you are still married. Some folks need lots of action post-end of a LTR, some folks stay alone for a long long time. 

I don't think you're as over this as you think. And that is because there is no way when you've been with someone that long that hte residual feelings aren't there, hence, why your friend sensed your bitterness. Folks can tell. How long were you with H? It will take you awhile to heal. No need to rush anything. Just breathe


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I doubt it. It seems he approached it the right away--took time after a long relationshp to heal and be alone. You on the other hand, would more than likely rebound. Being that you are still married. Some folks need lots of action post-end of a LTR, some folks stay alone for a long long time.
> 
> I don't think you're as over this as you think. And that is because there is no way when you've been with someone that long that hte residual feelings aren't there, hence, why your friend sensed your bitterness. Folks can tell. How long were you with H? It will take you awhile to heal. No need to rush anything. Just breathe


Well, he took the time AFTER the failed rebound that resulted in a pregnancy where she cheated on him repeatedly until the child came and she left him.  I can tell he still hurts, but he is genuinely trying to help me through this process. I would like to NOT rebound, which is why I'd like to this to move slowly. I'd hate to ruin something with the potential to be great just because it was a rebound, you know?

That's what I'm saying about this seeming too easy. I can't just be over something I fought so hard for. I'm waiting to come crashing down.  I was married to H for 10 years last November (when his affair started) and together for what would have been 14 years this June. He's really the only man I've ever loved...been with him since I was 18. A lot of damage was done in this process, and I don't know how this grieving process works. Are there stages? I can't imagine ever NOT feeling bitter towards him. KWIM? What stage is next? 

I hope I can take my time and heal, and also cultivate a friendship with this guy. I don't want to cut something positive out of my life so that I can feel the hurt.


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## Jellybeans

Lonely, this isn't like waiting for the "other shoe to drop." A divorce is a BIG deal. It's traumatic like hell. It's something you go THROUGH, not get OVER. So you are going to have good days, bad days, find yourself laughing maniacally and then later crying all in the same hour. It's insane. You are in it right now. It's tough. 
A decade is a LONG time to be with someone and so is 14 yrs! He's pretty much all you know! You won't be "over it" tomorrow or even a month or yr even from now. It's going to leave some scars and you'll always remember. But guess what--life DOES go on. This was just a chapter in the story of your life. It's coming to an end. You are not alone. We are all right here w/ you. 
There are grieving stages and they don't all go in order, all happen at the same time. For me the one stage I haven't hit too much is ANGER and when it comes, I literally want to punch someone the heck out. To me, feeling the anger for a long time will let me know when I can finally heal. Because I have been in SAD mode too long. 
So yes, you will waffle back and forth. 
You CAN take your time and cultivate a friendship. You are in no rush. You have been one half of a couple for so long it's almost part of your identity. Rediscover yourself! 
I a mdealing w/ this right now. I spent all of my 20s with H and now just turned 30 and think WTF... I can't even remember what it was like to be single but here I am. It's STRANGE. But ya know what... life goes on every single day. I am looking forward to what else I've got in store  You will too!


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Lonely, this isn't like waiting for the "other shoe to drop." A divorce is a BIG deal. It's traumatic like hell. It's something you go THROUGH, not get OVER. So you are going to have good days, bad days, find yourself laughing maniacally and then later crying all in the same hour. It's insane. You are in it right now. It's tough.
> A decade is a LONG time to be with someone and so is 14 yrs! He's pretty much all you know! You won't be "over it" tomorrow or even a month or yr even from now. It's going to leave some scars and you'll always remember. But guess what--life DOES go on. This was just a chapter in the story of your life. It's coming to an end. You are not alone. We are all right here w/ you.
> There are grieving stages and they don't all go in order, all happen at the same time. For me the one stage I haven't hit too much is ANGER and when it comes, I literally want to punch someone the heck out. To me, feeling the anger for a long time will let me know when I can finally heal. Because I have been in SAD mode too long.
> So yes, you will waffle back and forth.
> You CAN take your time and cultivate a friendship. You are in no rush. You have been one half of a couple for so long it's almost part of your identity. Rediscover yourself!
> I a mdealing w/ this right now. I spent all of my 20s with H and now just turned 30 and think WTF... I can't even remember what it was like to be single but here I am. It's STRANGE. But ya know what... life goes on every single day. I am looking forward to what else I've got in store  You will too!


Yes, I feel the scars. But I'm healing, and I'm okay with those scars. I'm aware of them, and that's enough for now. I know this journey won't be easy, I keep waiting for the tears to come. I've turned to musical therapy, it really helps me get those feelings out. H is all I've known. And I don't look back with regret at our relationship, it's just come to an end due to forces outside of my control. I have had the anger stage, I was very mad, but maybe it was more like vengeful? I'm at acceptance and peace right now. That's the best way I can describe it. 

I feel like I am rediscovering myself. I like this "me" I see. I have a future, and I will be happy. I don't know what it's like to be a single adult, really! But I'm getting used to it. I don't have this overwhelming desire to be part of a couple. But a hug would be nice.  I'll take my time with my friend, because I feel a real connection to him. I know it could be the perfume to cover up the stink, but I just have a feeling he's special. 

Found this article...Interesting

_What are the signs that a “rebound relationship” is actually the real thing and not a fling?

I wouldn’t ever count on finding Mr. or Ms. Right immediately after a bad break up -- especially if you’re coming out of a long-term romance. Your thought patterns and emotions are typically too skewed during this time to allow you to think clearly about connecting with others at that level of intimacy. But who can say that something can never happen? With that premise, below are some thoughts about how to tell if your current fling is perhaps more than a rebound:


* You’re not comparing (secretly or publicly) your current partner to your ex. In rebound relationships, we often try to recapture the traits, behaviors and emotions that attracted us to our ex in the first place.

* You’re current partner is different from your ex. It seems that if you are dating a carbon copy of your ex, you’re probably just trying to emulate the past relationship and it may not work out. If he has a different personality, habits or social circle, there’s a better shot.

* You want to get over your ex. It’s unrealistic to expect that you’ll get over your ex immediately after meeting a new person. But if you start to get the urge to move on from your ex, it could be because you see a future with the new prospect as opposed to being merely a fun distraction.

* You’re taking it slow and setting the pace in the relationship. Moving at warp-speed with a new person could mean you’re just trying to fill a void and not really thinking about if he or she’s right for you. Plus, you are extremely vulnerable to pressure and influence during the rebound period, and this can lead to impulsive, risky decisions. You know you have the real thing when you feel in control of your feelings and actions.

* You’re able to talk about your past relationships with your new love interest. Rather than hide or repress bad memories or past disappoints, you can talk to your partner about how your experiences have impacted your life, outlook on life and current expectations for a relationship.

* You’re in the relationship for you. Rebounders are motivated by the need to feel loved, accepted and valued. Often they behave in ways that makes others happy, but not themselves. You know it’s the real thing when pleasing a partner stops being your main priority and it is replaced by being honest and real about yourself and your needs with your partner.
_


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, I need honest advice on how to handle the divorce with H. I think he's being weird. Just like I gave him no reaction over his shenanigans with OW, and I let him know in that email that I'd accepted the situation, he's also giving me no reaction over my letter to his mom or my letter to him. (Which BTW, he did NOT talk to our son last night about what he overheard.) Anyhow, he is able to cordially discuss things like the kids and house things I ask about, although he doesn't really look at me. So last night when he came I asked about a screwdriver since I needed one to put together a bike I bought for DD's birthday. He looked around and said he didn't know. Well, he then left with the kids, but came back about 10 minutes later and sent son to the door with a brand new screwdriver. What's that about? 

So my dilemma is this...Should I ask him to sit down with me and discuss how we're going to handle things with the divorce? Like an attempt at figuring things out so they are agreed upon? He had mentioned mediation, which is what he wants us to do. But I don't want to sit in with a mediator and figure out things. I want to tell him what I want. So I was planning on going to the lawyer tomorrow, she draws up what I want and sends it to him in a letter of retainer, so he knows I have an attorney and what I want out of the divorce. He then has to respond, and after a certain number of days I file. If he signs and agrees, (which we can make amendments), then I file uncontested. But if he doesn't respond after a certain number of days I have to file and it would be contested. I don't think he wants a contested divorce. 

Keep in mind that my appointment with the lawyer is tomorrow at 4, and that H and I do NOT talk. He has no idea I'm taking any initiative, and is waiting for I don't know what. I think maybe he is waiting for me to get pissed off enough that I file or something. But I'm over it. I'm ready to move on with my life and really live it. I don't think he'd be mad about the letter of retainer and my requests and I do feel like he is going to be fairly agreeable. I want to be fair with the debts and such. I just feel like maybe if I get him to agree to things ahead of time, without a chance to run it by the OW, things might be better. But then again, I don't know if I can sit with him. It's really awkward. 

And I decided against sending anything to OW's family. I don't think it would accomplish anything, and at this point I am over it all.


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## turnera

Do NOT contact him.

fwiw, if my daughter were scr*wing a married man, I sure as hell would want to know; my job as her mother doesn't end at 18, and you can be sure I'd be giving her what for. And given you're the only other person who can tell them, I think you're harming their family by not telling.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Anyhow, he is able to cordially discuss things like the kids and house things I ask about, although he doesn't really look at me. He looked around and said he didn't know. Well, he then left with the kids, but came back about 10 minutes later and sent son to the door with a brand new screwdriver. What's that about? .


It's the shame he feels. That is why he can't look you in the eye. He knows he abandoned his marriage/family and that is a HARD pill to swallow. Don't bite though. This is not about you, remember. It's about him.

Lonely -nobody wants a contested divorce. Ever. But that is not the way the world works, unfortunately. And also, hardly an divorce is "easy." It is a gruelling, annoying process that SUCKS badly!!!! 

My advice is to not say a damn thing to your H. Go to your L tomorrow, ask for what you want and have him served. If he's not down with what you outlined, he can't have his own lawyer write yours back re: amendments, etc. Most peole settle before the final hearing so it ends up being uncontested. My D was uncontested the entire time until 2 weeks before the final hearing when H realized I was not going to back down and finally offered me something, after 1.5 yr!!! So it ended up being uncontested. You don't have to go to mediation just cause he wants it, in fact, I wouldn't. Go to your L, hire her/him, and send the paperwork on its way. Make sure you ask for everything you want and it's all outlined clearly. I would not discuss any of this w/ him beforehand. Because look at the way he's acting now--he barely speaks to you. It will do no good.

It's a personal decision whether to tell OW's parents and I support you either way. Turn does have a good point too. 

BE STEALTH. Get your Lawyer and FILE! DO NOT TELL HIM BEFOREHAND so he doesn't try anything sneaky!


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## turnera

I do sense in you that you are again afraid to anger him. First with not telling OW's parents, and then with not wanting to serve him.

Let me reiterate: The ONLY way to get him to admire you or even want you again, is to show strength and self-respect.


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## Jellybeans

^ Yep!


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## LonelyNLost

Great points, gals. They are all noted. I am just not really a boat-rocker. And I've come to this place of acceptance and letting go. I don't want to feel the anger anymore and I'd like to arrive at a place where we can both be at the same birthday party for our kids. KWIM? I don't want to anger him, that's true, but not out of fear. And I don't care if he ever wants me again. I have my dignity and self-respect and I don't care what he thinks. I've shown incredible strength and he knows it.

As for the lawyer, I guess I'll do it the way she suggested. I won't actually file tomorrow, though. The letter she sends just lets him know I have an attorney and what I will be asking for. He then has to respond within a certain number of days, and if he doesn't, then we file contested. If he responds and we make amendments before I file then it will be uncontested. He will know that this means I'm going to file. No matter what he'd know beforehand. But I still think this is the last thing he expects.

I'm really curious if his check will go in the account this Friday. I'm thinking that he realizes I'm pulling out, and it won't go in. We'll see how that plays out. I'll have to demand at least $425 because that's what his child support would be. I feel like the financial situation is getting grim. There's like $14 left in the joint account, and he hasn't touched it. I don't know how he's buying gas or paying for things. So odd. Maybe his parents are helping him? He didn't have a birthday gift for our daughter or anything last night either. Told son that he'd take them to the zoo to celebrate her birthday this weekend. 

And my son is having a really tough time. I think reality is hitting and he's grieving. He just cries at the drop of a dime, like I tell him time for bed and he loses it. He then apologizes as he cries for not doing what I said right away. It causes me to be angry towards H. I'm thinking that my son is also seeing me happy and fine with the situation, not sitting around sad or grieving and that's hard for him to swallow. I'm working on getting him to a counselor.


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## Jellybeans

So in essence are you filing a settlement agreement and not a divorce?

Sorry to hear about your son. This is a very traumatic experience for your kids. Lead by example. Be strong for them, ok? They are looking to you right now as their role model.

Yes, retain your lawyer quicky. Hit him up quickly before he beats you to the punch!


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> So in essence are you filing a settlement agreement and not a divorce?
> 
> Sorry to hear about your son. This is a very traumatic experience for your kids. Lead by example. Be strong for them, ok? They are looking to you right now as their role model.
> 
> Yes, retain your lawyer quicky. Hit him up quickly before he beats you to the punch!


I don't know what it is. I guess it must be some sort of settlement agreement, since if he agrees that's what makes it uncontested. She called it a letter of retainer. She said it tells him he should consult an attorney and to contact her about anything he disagrees with. 

I've got this! I'm going to be the best mother I can be. Divorced, single-mommyhood, here I come!


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## Jellybeans

The letter of retainer isn't the same as a settlement agreement.

FIND OUT. My guess is it's a settlement agreement along with the letter stating she's representing you. Know what you are paying for .


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> The letter of retainer isn't the same as a settlement agreement.
> 
> FIND OUT. My guess is it's a settlement agreement along with the letter stating she's representing you. Know what you are paying for .


I will. But I'm paying a flat fee for an uncontested divorce, and it includes everything except the filing fee. I have to give her half tomorrow. She will even represent me in court and go over mediation stuff with me. Sounded like a good deal. And I really like her. Funniest part, is that her name is the same as the OW! :smthumbup:


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## Jellybeans

So you are doing mediation? Or just going to court? 

Well either way, make sure she answers all of your questions and it's good you found representation. It makes the process less scary. 

Oh Lord abou tthe same name as OW... wellt hin of it this way, OW wil always be Vegas Homewrecker Skank to us so you can think of her as VHS. LOL.


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## turnera

If you fear that he may - at any time - NOT deposit his check to pay for his kids, you need that legal settlement ASAP! He's probably got a new credit card. Many, many WHs do that.

Does your son have another man he can talk to? He needs one.

Look, I know you don't want to feel the anger, and you want him to be amenable around the kids. But that's not the same thing as not rocking the boat. At this point, you NEED to show your strength, not your need for smoothness.

HE chose to leave. YOU are just protecting what he left.


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## karole

A retainer letter is a letter setting forth the terms of the attorney's representation of you. It will detail hourly wage, expenses, how you will be billed, that sort of thing.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> So you are doing mediation? Or just going to court?
> 
> Well either way, make sure she answers all of your questions and it's good you found representation. It makes the process less scary.
> 
> Oh Lord abou tthe same name as OW... wellt hin of it this way, OW wil always be Vegas Homewrecker Skank to us so you can think of her as VHS. LOL.


My HOPE is that he'll just go with my lawyer to save himself money and he'll pretty much give me what I want without going to mediation. We do have to appear in court I guess at the end and maybe an initial meeting? But I'd love to have this settled. Although he's high on this affair, he looks like crap, so I'm not sure how "happy" he really is. I'd hate for him to have reality hit and then decide that this isn't what he wants. Because I'm D.O.N.E. with him. 

I was laughing about the irony of the lawyer last night. He's going to be getting fvcked by two women with the same name! :rofl:



turnera said:


> If you fear that he may - at any time - NOT deposit his check to pay for his kids, you need that legal settlement ASAP! He's probably got a new credit card. Many, many WHs do that.
> 
> Does your son have another man he can talk to? He needs one.
> 
> Look, I know you don't want to feel the anger, and you want him to be amenable around the kids. But that's not the same thing as not rocking the boat. At this point, you NEED to show your strength, not your need for smoothness.
> 
> HE chose to leave. YOU are just protecting what he left.


Yes, I'm going to find out about how this works. Like some sort of temporary support. He never said anything to me about spending his whole paycheck or my check not going into the account. I don't think he's got a credit card because he's defaulted on his other one and our ratio of balances to credit limit is too high. I have no clue how he's buying stuff. Maybe Ow gave him money, haha, how pathetic. 

Our neighbor, H's friend, would be a good guy for my son to talk to. I'm going to talk to them tonight about just hanging out and throwing a football around and watching wrestling together. I don't want him to feel pressured into being a father figure, but it's a distraction my son needs right now. They are supposed to come over tonight.

I am protecting what he left behind. And I am strong. I will give another thought to contacting OW's parents. But I'll make it short and sweet.


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## LonelyNLost

karole said:


> A retainer letter is a letter setting forth the terms of the attorney's representation of you. It will detail hourly wage, expenses, how you will be billed, that sort of thing.


She might have called it a notice of retainer, but whatever she draws up gets mailed to him. We've already figured out her representation of me and those terms. She said we'll outline what I want. She said to come to her with everything I want.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I was laughing about the irony of the lawyer last night. He's going to be getting fvcked by two women with the same name! :rofl:



That is pretty funny.
And I am not surprised he looks like hell. My ex h looked like the things nightmares are made of the day of our D. Even all his hair is thinning and not so pretty anymore. 

My bet is she's sending a letter saying she represents you ALONG with your proposed settlement agreement. Don't b shy about asking for what you want either. If he wants out of the marriage, get the biggest check from him you can


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> That is pretty funny.
> And I am not surprised he looks like hell. My ex h looked like the things nightmares are made of the day of our D. Even all his hair is thinning and not so pretty anymore.
> 
> My bet is she's sending a letter saying she represents you ALONG with your proposed settlement agreement. Don't b shy about asking for what you want either. If he wants out of the marriage, get the biggest check from him you can



I plan on taking care of myself and my kids, which is why I'm going the lawyer route. So funny that he looks like hell and I look great. Must suck to be him. LOL.


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## turnera

I always say choosing to cheat is signing a deal with the devil: eventually, you have to pay.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> I always say choosing to cheat is signing a deal with the devil: eventually, you have to pay.


Good way to look at it. I think he'll be paying for a long time. 

I'm off to see the lawyer today. Why do I feel excited? And anxious? I am really curious at how he's going to respond to the letter he gets. I've given him no reason to be pissed off, so it'll be interesting to see if the anger comes back or not. But this is how it has to go. This is my story and I'm writing it now.


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## turnera

> it'll be interesting to see if the anger comes back or not


Count on it.


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## Jellybeans

Good luck today at the lawyers


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## tamara24

Good ,luck today. Hubby looks like hell cause he burned the candle at both ends for too long and all he has to show for it is burned fingers. When he realizes his mistakes,it will be a huge moment for him. He has spent months turning you into a villian to justify his affair now he may be realizing the difference between a lady and a tramp.

Stay strong and don't say a word to hubby. This is a consequence to his actions. He threw around the words divorce,I am done and yet he still has not filed or talked to your son. My guess there is still a connection that he isn't ready to let it go. No self respecting father would let their son dangle unless he was unsure himself. You filing will show his true feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

tamara24 said:


> Good ,luck today. Hubby looks like hell cause he burned the candle at both ends for too long and all he has to show for it is burned fingers. When he realizes his mistakes,it will be a huge moment for him. He has spent months turning you into a villian to justify his affair now he may be realizing the difference between a lady and a tramp.
> 
> Stay strong and don't say a word to hubby. This is a consequence to his actions. He threw around the words divorce,I am done and yet he still has not filed or talked to your son. My guess there is still a connection that he isn't ready to let it go. No self respecting father would let their son dangle unless he was unsure himself. You filing will show his true feelings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck! Be strong!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

tamara24 said:


> He has spent months turning you into a villian to justify his affair now he may be realizing the difference between a lady and a tramp.


:rofl: Good one, Tam


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Good ,luck today. Hubby looks like hell cause he burned the candle at both ends for too long and all he has to show for it is burned fingers. When he realizes his mistakes,it will be a huge moment for him. *He has spent months turning you into a villian to justify his affair now he may be realizing the difference between a lady and a tramp.*
> 
> Stay strong and don't say a word to hubby. This is a consequence to his actions. He threw around the words divorce,I am done and yet he still has not filed or talked to your son. My guess there is still a connection that he isn't ready to let it go. No self respecting father would let their son dangle unless he was unsure himself. You filing will show his true feelings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks! I'm not actually filing today, it's like pre-filing I guess. He will know at the beginning of next week that I'm moving forward with divorcing him. Should be interesting. That cracked me up about the lady and the tramp. Love it! 

I won't say anything to him. His best friend seems to think he's not over it like he says he is based on him doing little things and taking the sentimental things from the house. I can't read him at all, but it doesn't matter. I feel the same about our kids, why in the world hasn't he sat down and told them we are getting divorced? I think the answer is because he doesn't want to be the one to deliver that news and deal with the pain he's caused.



golfergirl said:


> Good luck! Be strong!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, girl! I will be strong. I'm bringing along my best friend as an extra set of ears. I'll update you guys later. I have no idea what to even expect.


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## tamara24

I am glad you got a good laugh. You may not be filing but hiring an attorney says hey,I am moving on. I don't think that you come out of a fourteen year relationship with someone without questioning if it is right or wrong. There were good memories as well as bad and it all gets mixed up with emotions. It might give him a jolt because you showed strength by taking the initiative. 

Everybody is going to have an adjustment period. What remains the most important,is that you can convey that mom and dad don't live together,but you are still parents and there. You are a different person from when you started this thread and your son probably sees you changing as well as his relationship with his dad. That is kind of spooky for a kid as they like everything constant. Just show a lot of love and hugs and reassurance. When he cries, ask him,hey dad said for you to call him whenever you want, would you like to talk to dad. I realize mr. Stupid may not have been the greatest dad over the last few months but to a kid,if dad stayed there and he knew he was there or coming home,it would make him feel comfortable. But knowing dad isn't coming home and maybe he won't show up for me,could be weighing in on his little mind. 

Hope all went well today,have a glass of sangria when you get home!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> I am glad you got a good laugh. You may not be filing but hiring an attorney says hey,I am moving on. I don't think that you come out of a fourteen year relationship with someone without questioning if it is right or wrong. There were good memories as well as bad and it all gets mixed up with emotions. It might give him a jolt because you showed strength by taking the initiative.
> 
> Everybody is going to have an adjustment period. What remains the most important,is that you can convey that mom and dad don't live together,but you are still parents and there. You are a different person from when you started this thread and your son probably sees you changing as well as his relationship with his dad. That is kind of spooky for a kid as they like everything constant. Just show a lot of love and hugs and reassurance. When he cries, ask him,hey dad said for you to call him whenever you want, would you like to talk to dad. I realize mr. Stupid may not have been the greatest dad over the last few months but to a kid,if dad stayed there and he knew he was there or coming home,it would make him feel comfortable. But knowing dad isn't coming home and maybe he won't show up for me,could be weighing in on his little mind.
> 
> Hope all went well today,have a glass of sangria when you get home!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Hey guys! So today with the lawyer went well. She was running late but spent an hour with me, taking notes on what I wanted. She will draft it all up in a settlement agreement that gets sent with a bunch of other things. She said it will hopefully be done by the end of next week. Then I can hand it to him, or she can mail it. I think I'll have it mailed certified mail. I tried to be fair and reasonable, so hopefully he agrees to it all as is. We split the debts down the middle, which meant he takes the equity line of credit. I don't know how that works with responsibility and stuff when it's settled, because that is tied to the house so there's a lien, so if he doesn't pay it do I get in trouble? I don't know how that all works. I feel good about it though, and it really wasn't hard for me to sit there and talk about divorce. She said the quickest if he agrees to everything would be about 60 days, the longest 5 months if uncontested. I'm hoping that by August it will all be done.

Thanks, I do feel like a different person. I'm emerging! Weird feelings tonight though. I went out when he brought the kids home, and my daughter had taken his sunglasses and wrapped them around her waist, so when I picked her up I took them off and we all 4 were laughing in the driveway about it like old times. That was kind of hard. Like at that moment I wanted him, but I think it's the comfort I want. I want what I had, but not who he is now. And he still looks like crap. Still never talked to our son about what he overheard. Son was a little better tonight, but I think he is really struggling with the change and all.

And OW's ex messaged me again and said that they had lots of issues and things on their plate for awhile, but that she filed for divorce after she came home and found another woman in the house. He said they were divorcing no matter what, but that was when she filed and moved out. He says she's not a homewrecker. So I don't know what the deal is there. I don't care. Kind of crappy that she was cheated on and she'd go and tear another family apart. They say homewreckers have really poor self image and self esteem that's why they do it. 

I'll wait until Saturday night for the sangria. Going out! Tonight I'm going to hit the hay. I'm so tired!


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## LonelyNLost

I think I'm crashing today. I'm not over it like I thought. I know I don't want him back, I know that for sure. But right now I'm just struggling. I guess we all have good and bad days in this journey, but I'd love to curl up in bed and just cry.


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## tamara24

Sending you a hug. The finality of everything is hitting you and your grieving for what you lost. Take your time. Nobody here wants you to do anything you are not ready for. Just food for thought, I can't imagine him completely over you either. Remember,fourteen years is a long time. Take your time.

So hubby has done some terrible stuff and your head says hey, the a--,has done some really crappy things. But your heart remembers all the great comfy times where you felt safe. It is only natural to have those feelings. Cry when you need to cry,laugh when you can laugh. Maybe hubby is also going through his emotions and thinking I just made the biggest mistake of my life and is coming out of the fog.
This may prompt him to start talking to you and you finding out exactly what he has been missing in the marraige and maybe he is willing to work with that. I am not saying either way,don't give him a chance or give him one, I am saying take things slow. You might find closure or you might find that all this was started because of thoughts and feelings neither of you discussed and both of you have misunderstood. You are the only person that can make that decision. We can tell you dump him, you are angy and feel you are DONE,but fourteen years is a long time to rush into something because of a bad two years. You might find,you dislike the man he has become and you can not work past this, but you might also find he felt neglected or misunderstood your actions and reacted in a stupid manner.

The reason I say this to you. Why did he fell the need to go to the store and buy the screwdriver? Did you say thank you? It was his way of taking care of you. What if you said hey, thanks for the screwdriver, I wish you had come in and helped put the bike together, I am hoping it doesn't fall apart as she rides it! Keep it light. I think he should talk to you not texting,emailing and over the phone. If your ever going to get the closure(either way) he needs to feel he can talk to you. No sucking up,just be nice/civil,l,relax a bit. You have made your choice, but nobody is pushing you to have it done by this afternoon. Take your time, make sure all avenues have been explored before you make a decision that you can't change.

You have come a long way and you are getting "a little bit stronger",but you still have unresolved issues. Take care of them first so you can come out of this feeling like you completed this chapter in your life. 

More hugs sent your way!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks, tamara, that really did make me feel better. I know I'll be alright, and this is just a bad day. I'll take my kids to the mall today, we'll order pizza, and then have a movie night at home together. I think a lot of this is the finality of ending my marriage. My heart does remember the good times, the laughs, the love. 

His friend seems to think he isn't over it like he says he is, but this is scorched earth, there's no coming back. I don't know if he's coming out of the fog, or if he ever will realize what he lost. I don't think I'm the villain, he knows what he's done. I really, truly do think he sees me for the amazing person I am, which is why he feels so crappy and defends himself with all the anger. I know I could never allow him to hurt me again. I can't even see myself making light conversation with him, I can't allow him past these walls. I did not thank him for the screwdriver. Last night he picked up son from school and I walked out to his truck and asked him if he'd like to keep them until 8pm instead of 7:30 and he was more than willing to. I did thank him for that. 

I guess I really don't see the screwdriver as him thinking he's helping me out. I think it's more of the shame and guilt he feels. Who knows? I felt like I had closure in the proof that he was cheating. I had closure in realizing really who he has become and that my life can't include him any more. Our marriage is over, and I've accepted that. Now it's time for the healing. Who knows how long that will take?


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## Jellybeans

The up and down is totally normal.
I am very happy & proud of you Lonely, for seeing the lawyer. GOOD!
I would have the paperwork served to him. Lik ehow he was too much of a coward to bring you the papers about the child agreement... hahaha..have him served. 

It's normal to backslid eand focus on only the good-romanticizing everything. But you must not do that. You can remembe there was good and bad but must focus on the REALITY of yoru situatioN: which is that he chose to leave you and abandon the family so he could get off w/ some Vegas Wh*re.

You ARE better than that and DESERVE better than that and you will be fine just fine in the end. Promise. He did you a huuuge favor.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> The up and down is totally normal.
> I am very happy & proud of you Lonely, for seeing the lawyer. GOOD!
> I would have the paperwork served to him. Lik ehow he was too much of a coward to bring you the papers about the child agreement... hahaha..have him served.
> 
> It's normal to backslid eand focus on only the good-romanticizing everything. But you must not do that. You can remembe there was good and bad but must focus on the REALITY of yoru situatioN: which is that he chose to leave you and abandon the family so he could get off w/ some Vegas Wh*re.
> 
> You ARE better than that and DESERVE better than that and you will be fine just fine in the end. Promise. He did you a huuuge favor.


Thanks! I do realize that this is for the best. Happiness is out there somewhere. I don't feel that I'm romanticizing everything, just missing what was good. Still not enough to make me give him a chance if he ever did want one. The reality is that he's not the man I married any more, and I'm done hoping or thinking he could change. 

I think the closest thing to having the settlement proposal served to him would be certified mail. Or I could have one of my friends that have a police husband deliver it to him, haha. We'll see how it goes down. I'm crossing my fingers he agrees to it all as is.


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## Jellybeans

Have your lawyer send it certified. It's more official that way.

When I got my settlement agreement, ex-H has his lawyer mail it to me.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Have your lawyer send it certified. It's more official that way.
> 
> When I got my settlement agreement, ex-H has his lawyer mail it to me.


Yep, that was what I was thinking. And if he tries to talk to me about it, I'll tell him to call my lawyer and discuss possible amendments. I don't think I should discuss any of it with him at this point.


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## KathyGriffinFan

Yay Lonely, you've come so far, so quickly.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Yep, that was what I was thinking. And if he tries to talk to me about it, I'll tell him to call my lawyer and discuss possible amendments. I don't think I should discuss any of it with him at this point.


Exactly. This is how you handle it... 

H will be all,_ "Lonely I can't believe you filed! WTF, you didn't even talk to me first, I am not signing anything! It doesn't mean anything since I have not ok'ed it, I will make this divorce horrible for you, you just now totally convinced me it was the right reason to separate, etc... I would have never asked for all the things you did... I can't believe you got a lawyer involved w/o even talking to me first--I thought we agreed to mediation!!!" _ and you can say

_"D-uchenozzle (I mean, Husband's Name)... Let's not make this more difficult than it needs to be. You can contact my lawyer directly with any questions relating to the settlement agreement. At this point I will only discuss co-parenting with you. You decided to leave and I am deciding to move on with my life."_ Then walk away. 
END POINT.

You don't owe him anything. Understand?


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Exactly. This is how you handle it...
> 
> H will be all,_ "Lonely I can't believe you filed! WTF, you didn't even talk to me first, I am not signing anything! It doesn't mean anything since I have not ok'ed it, I will make this divorce horrible for you, you just now totally convinced me it was the right reason to separate, etc... I would have never asked for all the things you did... I can't believe you got a lawyer involved w/o even talking to me first--I thought we agreed to mediation!!!" _ and you can say
> 
> _"D-uchenozzle (I mean, Husband's Name)... Let's not make this more difficult than it needs to be. You can contact my lawyer directly with any questions relating to the settlement agreement. At this point I will only discuss co-parenting with you. You decided to leave and I am deciding to move on with my life."_ Then walk away.
> END POINT.
> 
> You don't owe him anything. Understand?


Haha, that made me laugh.  

So, his paycheck did not go in the account. And I need money to pay bills and for the car insurance (his included) that is going to try to come out of that joint account on Monday. Grrr. How do I handle THAT? 

I need to just hand him the pile of overdue bills that he's going to be responsible for, according to the agreement I made with the lawyer yesterday. And I need to tell him to get new car insurance. Do I just wait and see if he has money for me tomorrow? WTF? What a douche.


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## Jellybeans

I wonder how many of those things he is going to say that I typed above. 

Re: the $...does it usually come in on Fridays? Could there be a hold up? If not, then my theory about him plotting and scheming something is correct.

I would wait another day then you could shoot him an email stating that you need $ to cover bills, etc. 

DO NOT DO NOT let him know about the lawyer, mmkay? It is likely to get very ugly fast as soon as he gets the paperwork from your attorney.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I wonder how many of those things he is going to say that I typed above.
> 
> Re: the $...does it usually come in on Fridays? Could there be a hold up? If not, then my theory about him plotting and scheming something is correct.
> 
> I would wait another day then you could shoot him an email stating that you need $ to cover bills, etc.
> 
> DO NOT DO NOT let him know about the lawyer, mmkay? It is likely to get very ugly fast as soon as he gets the paperwork from your attorney.


I'm sure I'll hear some version of all of the things you wrote. 

The money is never held up. He must have gotten a paper check or opened an account somewhere. He is picking up the kids tomorrow night at 6pm. So I need a plan for then, I will have to say something. 

The paperwork from the attorney won't reach him for 1-2 weeks. I won't say anything about it, but I do need a plan for NOW. I thought about asking the daycare to ask him to pay. I need to get some balls and just tell him tomorrow that I need $440 (which would be half of his monthly proposed child support) plus money for his car insurance that will come out of that account. The crappy thing is that everything hasn't been switched over to my account, so the ACH withdrawals for car insurance and my student loans will be coming out of there, so I have to put MY money in there, at the risk that he might go and take it.  

I hate all this. I also need to let him know his student loans are months behind and give him his login information so he can take care of it. I've always been the bill payer, but it isn't like he's even asked about things. I guess he just assumes I'm taking care of it all. Jerk. He needs to go get his own car insurance, too, because I'm not paying it. And he can't stay on my policy because it's an educator only insurance company. Only reason I haven't cancelled it is because he drives around with MY children.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I need to get some balls and just tell him tomorrow that I need $440 (which would be half of his monthly proposed child support) plus money for his car insurance that will come out of that account. .


DO THIS. 

Just tell him you need the $ for daycare and and to cover the costs for things. DO NOT give him one single inkling that you have filed for support or separation, etc. 

I wonder why the sep. agreement takes so long. 1-2 weeks seems like forever...

And my bet is he will touch on almost every point I wrote LOL. :rofl:


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## sisters359

Do not make this easy for him. Do not put money in the joint acount to pay the bills--switch over the ones you will pay, and tell him he needs to pay his car insurance. Let him figure out how. If you must, call the companies on Monday and pay directly if there is no money in the joint account. 

I haven't read everythiing, but enough to see that you have gotten to the point of letting go and focusing on yourself and the kids. Remind your son constantly of 3 things: this isn't his fault, you will always be his mom, and you will always love him and be a big part of his life. You cannot make promises/commitments on behalf of his dad, so don't--that's dad's job. But kids need to be reassured that the divorce isn't their fault (and they have the strangest ways of arriving at such conclusions; you'd never even imagine what they think up!). As frequently, every couple of days at least, until son tells you to stop--then slow the pace, don't quit asking. The car is good; kids like to have these conversations w/o having to look right at you sometimes. I always ask if my kids have any questions about how things are going, now that mom and dad are separated/divorced, or if there is something they need to discuss. It's opened up conversations. They start the conversations themselves, now, when they want to talk about something. I'm glad to have such a strong relationship with them; I thank God every day that I do!


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## KathyGriffinFan

OMG, what a jerk! I wonder when he canceled the direct deposit?

He should have had a portion of his funds going into your account. He could have arranged that quite easily. 

What a douche. Maybe he wants to play hardball?


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> DO THIS.
> 
> Just tell him you need the $ for daycare and and to cover the costs for things. DO NOT give him one single inkling that you have filed for support or separation, etc.
> 
> I wonder why the sep. agreement takes so long. 1-2 weeks seems like forever...
> 
> And my bet is he will touch on almost every point I wrote LOL. :rofl:


Yes, it does seem like forever. I was hoping it would be done ASAP, but I guess she types it all up in specific lingo and then has it proofread and stuff. She said hopefully by the end of next week she'll have it ready for me to go over. I hope he agrees and signs and then I can file. 

I will go out and tell him I need money and see how he responds. 



sisters359 said:


> Do not make this easy for him. Do not put money in the joint acount to pay the bills--switch over the ones you will pay, and tell him he needs to pay his car insurance. Let him figure out how. If you must, call the companies on Monday and pay directly if there is no money in the joint account.
> 
> I haven't read everythiing, but enough to see that you have gotten to the point of letting go and focusing on yourself and the kids. Remind your son constantly of 3 things: this isn't his fault, you will always be his mom, and you will always love him and be a big part of his life. You cannot make promises/commitments on behalf of his dad, so don't--that's dad's job. But kids need to be reassured that the divorce isn't their fault (and they have the strangest ways of arriving at such conclusions; you'd never even imagine what they think up!). As frequently, every couple of days at least, until son tells you to stop--then slow the pace, don't quit asking. The car is good; kids like to have these conversations w/o having to look right at you sometimes. I always ask if my kids have any questions about how things are going, now that mom and dad are separated/divorced, or if there is something they need to discuss. It's opened up conversations. They start the conversations themselves, now, when they want to talk about something. I'm glad to have such a strong relationship with them; I thank God every day that I do!


I just don't want to ruin my good account standing with the credit union, and if the money isn't in there, then they will bounce and I'll have to pay fees. All of which I can't afford. I can put the money in savings and then change the online banking password so he doesn't know it's there and he's not able to transfer the money unless he goes in person. But he could still take it via ATM. Once I get the bills switched over I will close that checking account. 

I feel like my son has been doing better the last few days. He noticed I was listening to music a lot and asked me if it helped me feel better. I told him it did, and how sometimes music can describe exactly how you feel. I played him Natasha Bedingfield's Unwritten and told him what the song meant. And now it's his own little slogan he'll say to me at night when I tuck him in. He gives me this big grin and says, "My book is unwritten." Makes me proud. He's going to be fine, but I'm working on balancing out the opening up and allowing him to come to me. I love my kids so much and watching them deal with this kills me.



KathyGriffinFan said:


> OMG, what a jerk! I wonder when he canceled the direct deposit?
> 
> He should have had a portion of his funds going into your account. He could have arranged that quite easily.
> 
> What a douche. Maybe he wants to play hardball?


I think he cancelled it when he realized my check hadn't gone in last payday (when skank flew out) and that I took almost all of his paycheck (groceries, daycare, mortgage - not like I bought stuff for myself). 

I really didn't think he wanted to play hardball. But who knows. I would think he'd tell me ahead of time his money wasn't going in, but obviously he's not the same person he used to be.


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## turnera

Go to the credit union and tell them what's going on.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Go to the credit union and tell them what's going on.


There's not really anything else I can do. I've talked to them about my situation. I actually worked there for 5 years, I worked there when I married H. They said I should close the checking account as soon as he is no longer depositing into it. But it takes a bit to change the accounts over that the money comes out of. We'll see tomorrow if he has money for me. I texted his best friend and just asked if he thought H would screw me over. And he said, "No, not at all." But the point is no one really knows him right now. His friend also commented about how down he sounded the other night and how he won't talk about anything but small talk.


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, so that didn't go so well. I very calmly asked him if he had money for me, and his response was "No, I have no money to give you" to which I replied, "You have your whole paycheck and nothing to pay." He then proceeded to tell me that I've not paid anything in his name and he was under the assumption that I was since his check was still going in, and he was now getting 36 phone calls per day about everything and his student loans are talking about garnishing his wages. He says he called the insurance company and had them switch things over and the same with the credit card and the student loan. But he acted like I've been running around buying things with HIS money. Grrrr. Did he really think I'd sit and take ALL of the responsibility on when we didn't have enough to make ends meet before he left? 

He even had the audacity to say that I don't talk to him, and he has no idea if I'm even paying the mortgage and he wonders if I was planning on just up and leaving and skipping town and LEAVING HIM HIGH AND DRY. Haha, that was laughable, I repeated that and laughed. I was on the verge of tears the whole time talking about how dire the situation is, but I held my own. He also added that it is not his intent to screw me over financially, and he's there for me if I need him to take care of the yard or get my oil changed. Yeah, uh, that makes up for everything.

He also got mad because I didn't invite him to daughter's birthday, which I explained really wasn't a party it just became cake and presents at a mother's day get together. I told him he needed to figure out a way to be around me and be civil because we have a lifetime of events for our kids that we need to be at together. He says he won't be around people that have gotten into it with him, like my mom, to which I clarified that she was disgusted by him and sent him one text to which he responded with 15. 

I did inform him that they would probably make him pay back child support, and he said he knew. But he claims it will take him 3 paychecks to get HIS bills up to date. Whatever. I guess that means I won't see any money for at least 6 weeks. I can't even do anything about it, there's no temporary support.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, so that didn't go so well. I very calmly asked him if he had money for me, and his response was "No, I have no money to give you" to which I replied, "You have your whole paycheck and nothing to pay." He then proceeded to tell me that I've not paid anything in his name and he was under the assumption that I was since his check was still going in, and he was now getting 36 phone calls per day about everything and his student loans are talking about garnishing his wages. He says he called the insurance company and had them switch things over and the same with the credit card and the student loan. But he acted like I've been running around buying things with HIS money. Grrrr. Did he really think I'd sit and take ALL of the responsibility on when we didn't have enough to make ends meet before he left?
> 
> He even had the audacity to say that I don't talk to him, and he has no idea if I'm even paying the mortgage and he wonders if I was planning on just up and leaving and skipping town and LEAVING HIM HIGH AND DRY. Haha, that was laughable, I repeated that and laughed. I was on the verge of tears the whole time talking about how dire the situation is, but I held my own. He also added that it is not his intent to screw me over financially, and he's there for me if I need him to take care of the yard or get my oil changed. Yeah, uh, that makes up for everything.
> 
> He also got mad because I didn't invite him to daughter's birthday, which I explained really wasn't a party it just became cake and presents at a mother's day get together. I told him he needed to figure out a way to be around me and be civil because we have a lifetime of events for our kids that we need to be at together. He says he won't be around people that have gotten into it with him, like my mom, to which I clarified that she was disgusted by him and sent him one text to which he responded with 15.
> 
> I did inform him that they would probably make him pay back child support, and he said he knew. But he claims it will take him 3 paychecks to get HIS bills up to date. Whatever. I guess that means I won't see any money for at least 6 weeks. I can't even do anything about it, there's no temporary support.


He is delusional! As if you should invite him for birthday party??? I think you handled it well. Contact your bills and explain situation. It's better if they know off the top. Sorry big boy - when you live in big boy world wifey doesn't pay your bills anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> He is delusional! As if you should invite him for birthday party??? I think you handled it well. Contact your bills and explain situation. It's better if they know off the top. Sorry big boy - when you live in big boy world wifey doesn't pay your bills anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He IS delusional. He said he wouldn't have come to the party anyway because he's uncomfortable around "my people". I felt like I handled it well, but I'm the logistical one. I'll be sitting down and figuring out how much he is needing to pay because he's behind in things, but it is NO WHERE near $3,000 worth, so he's crazy if he thinks I'm going to scrounge by for 6 weeks while he does who knows what with his money. I would bet money that he's trying to get enough for first last and security for an apartment. I will be getting ahold of the bills I'm having trouble paying. It's going to be really tight, so I'm not sure how this is going to work. And all of my next check goes to the mortgage, so I don't know how I'm going to pay daycare. I am beyond frustrated at him, but I don't know what to do. I can't tell him he can't see the kids until he pays, but there really is nothing I can do about him not wanting to give me money.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> He IS delusional. He said he wouldn't have come to the party anyway because he's uncomfortable around "my people". I felt like I handled it well, but I'm the logistical one. I'll be sitting down and figuring out how much he is needing to pay because he's behind in things, but it is NO WHERE near $3,000 worth, so he's crazy if he thinks I'm going to scrounge by for 6 weeks while he does who knows what with his money. I would bet money that he's trying to get enough for first last and security for an apartment. I will be getting ahold of the bills I'm having trouble paying. It's going to be really tight, so I'm not sure how this is going to work. And all of my next check goes to the mortgage, so I don't know how I'm going to pay daycare. I am beyond frustrated at him, but I don't know what to do. I can't tell him he can't see the kids until he pays, but there really is nothing I can do about him not wanting to give me money.


Ask your lawyer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

golfergirl said:


> Ask your lawyer
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Aren't you glad you alreadyhave the wheels in motion? Could you imagine just starting legal process now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Well it is still in its beginning stages. She said there's not much I can do right now as far as money from him. I walked out this morning and handed him his bills, with a page attached to the front with how much he owes on each, and they'll be covered with this paycheck. I told him that I wasn't sure where he came up with needing 3 paychecks to catch up, but that I would expect money for AT LEAST daycare next paycheck as I'm having to scrounge by just to feed the kids. I told him he needs to share. He said he will see what he can do. Jerk. He's so weird. He then shows me a toybox he got on the side of the road for free with this big stupid grin on his face. WTF? 

Should I get ahold of the lawyer and have her send him something with the papers requesting temporary support? I have no clue what to do. I got groceries, paid daycare, and had to transfer money over for my student loans and for the car insurance, and it left me about $500 to pay for my car payment, utilities, and the home equity loan. Let's just say that isn't going to cut it.


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## ClipClop

Yes. Lawyer. If he doesn't go for back support as part of the settlement. He will like that lump sum even less. Pay it now or pay it later, but it is gonna happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> Well it is still in its beginning stages. She said there's not much I can do right now as far as money from him. I walked out this morning and handed him his bills, with a page attached to the front with how much he owes on each, and they'll be covered with this paycheck. I told him that I wasn't sure where he came up with needing 3 paychecks to catch up, but that I would expect money for AT LEAST daycare next paycheck as I'm having to scrounge by just to feed the kids. I told him he needs to share. He said he will see what he can do. Jerk. He's so weird. He then shows me a toybox he got on the side of the road for free with this big stupid grin on his face. WTF?
> 
> Should I get ahold of the lawyer and have her send him something with the papers requesting temporary support? I have no clue what to do. I got groceries, paid daycare, and had to transfer money over for my student loans and for the car insurance, and it left me about $500 to pay for my car payment, utilities, and the home equity loan. Let's just say that isn't going to cut it.


If your lawyer can't do anything at the moment you need to get it in writing that he's refusing to help provide for his children and is not covering the bills he left behind when he ran away from his family. Send him an email asking for him to pay _at least_ half of everything (more if that's how it worked when you were together). Make sure to point out that you've covered groceries, daycare, and the car insurance if it includes his car. Remember, no emotions. 

"I've paid your half portion of the utilities, home equity loan, car insurance, groceries for the children, day care, and _______. I've calculated ___ to be the amount I'm owed. Please let me know when you'll be reimbursing me so the family budget stays intact. Thank you"

ETA: Changed "half" to "portion." I have no idea how much you're asking for in alimony/child support and I'm not sure if putting it in writing that you're requesting half could work against you. Maybe write out an email and double check with the lawyer that it will only work in your favor (proof that you've requested money).


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## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> If your lawyer can't do anything at the moment you need to get it in writing that he's refusing to help provide for his children and is not covering the bills he left behind when he ran away from his family. Send him an email asking for him to pay _at least_ half of everything (more if that's how it worked when you were together). Make sure to point out that you've covered groceries, daycare, and the car insurance if it includes his car. Remember, no emotions.
> 
> "I've paid your half portion of the utilities, home equity loan, car insurance, groceries for the children, day care, and _______. I've calculated ___ to be the amount I'm owed. Please let me know when you'll be reimbursing me so the family budget stays intact. Thank you"
> 
> ETA: Changed "half" to "portion." I have no idea how much you're asking for in alimony/child support and I'm not sure if putting it in writing that you're requesting half could work against you. Maybe write out an email and double check with the lawyer that it will only work in your favor (proof that you've requested money).


Yes, I do think I need to ask the attorney today. Before Friday, his whole check had gone into the account and I was using most of it to cover bills, while he used it for miscellaneous things like gas and food and who knows what. He has no expenses but that. His truck and motorcycle are paid off, and he is living with his parents. I haven't been spending his money frivolously at ALL. Our budget was tight as it was, and adding in the extra 50 miles he's driving daily and the money he was spending on other things, there isn't enough to pay all the bills. He walked off and just assumed that by having his check go into the account, that was being responsible, but it wasn't. He never had a conversation with me. And when it came down to paying his student loan payment or buying groceries, I gladly went with the grocery option. 

I do think I need to go with the email, which I told him I'd be sending. I did give him a printout of what he needed to pay with his paycheck and let him know that next paycheck I do expect him to at least pay daycare for me. But we'll have to get this down to the nitty gritty. According to what I asked him to be responsible in the settlement agreement (which he hasn't seen yet), he's taken everything but the equity line of credit, which is only like $70 now until it goes into total repayment and not interest only. He needs the reality of figuring out money and bills. Up until now, he's been running around like he's in high school, his only responsibility being going to work and picking up his kids for a few hours here and there. Must be nice. I'm going to be strapped as it is, even if he gives me $440 per paycheck. So sorry, jerk, that you'll be giving me half of your paycheck for the next 16 years. Should have thought about that before you cheated.


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## LonelyNLost

Today is the 2 month "anniversary" of this thread. For that, I'll celebrate my new state of mind. But wow, things change A LOT in 2 months!


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Should I get ahold of the lawyer and have her send him something with the papers requesting temporary support?


*ABSOLUTELY.* I thought you already did this???? You need to file for temporary spousal and child support because at this point in time you don't even know when youre' divorcing!!!! Whatever is awarded for that will remain the same until the divorce.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> *ABSOLUTELY.* I thought you already did this???? You need to file for temporary spousal and child support because at this point in time you don't even know when youre' divorcing!!!! Whatever is awarded for that will remain the same until the divorce.


Well, she did put in that I wanted $877 per month for child support, but there isn't anything that MAKES him pay it until he agrees to it and it becomes our divorce settlement, KWIM? She said that temporary support if I go file for it, takes up to 6 months and she said there wasn't much I could do right now. I will call her today after school.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Well, she did put in that I wanted $877 per month for child support, but there isn't anything that MAKES him pay it until he agrees to it and it becomes our divorce settlement, KWIM? She said that temporary support if I go file for it, takes up to 6 months and she said there wasn't much I could do right now. I will call her today after school.


That can't be right or support paying exes just wouldn't agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> That can't be right or support paying exes just wouldn't agree.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can double check with her, but until the divorce is filed, there isn't anything to make him pay, according to her. My best friend went with me and specifically asked that question, because I had a feeling his check wasn't going to go in on Friday. 

The thing the lawyer is sending is an attempt to settle so that the divorce is uncontested. We give him two weeks to respond to the settlement before we file, and I have to cross my fingers he agrees (I think I was very fair) and signs, so that it doesn't go contested. We can do amendments but I hope he makes this easy. Only thing I wanted him to take in the settlement that he hasn't taken responsibility for is the line of credit, and that was to make our debts even out without splitting each individual debt down the middle and having to pay each other money for separate things. It would be the cleanest "cut" so to speak. And he still comes out ahead because I'm stuck with a car payment and he made out with a motorcycle, a truck, and a canoe with no payments on any of them.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> Well, she did put in that I wanted $877 per month for child support, but there isn't anything that MAKES him pay it until he agrees to it and it becomes our divorce settlement, KWIM? She said that temporary support if I go file for it, takes up to 6 months and she said there wasn't much I could do right now. I will call her today after school.


I have never heard of this before. generally people file a motion for pendente lite (support) while they are waiting for the divorce. But maybe it's different in FL? I have no clue but you need to ask her. You need temp. support. I can almost guarantee you he is going to say hell no to the almost $900 a month.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I have never heard of this before. generally people file a motion for pendente lite (support) while they are waiting for the divorce. But maybe it's different in FL? I have no clue but you need to ask her. You need temp. support. I can almost guarantee you he is going to say hell no to the almost $900 a month.


That was what my friend was concerned about, but that's what the formula calculates. We make about the same amount of money per month, and I pay $600 in childcare, he pays $200 in health insurance for the kids, so that's his calculated contribution with the amount of overnights. Most he could do would be to fight to see them more, but with his schedule and the kids' ages and his living arrangements, not sure that it would be possible. 

I think something has to be filed in order to get temp support. We don't have legal separation here, so you are either married or divorcing. No middle ground.


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## Jellybeans

Yes, a motion must be filed for temp. support. Ask your lawyer.


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I think something has to be filed in order to get temp support. We don't have legal separation here, so you are either married or divorcing. No middle ground.


 So why haven't you filed?

You can always cancel the divorce or remarry some day. But you can't get your house back if you get kicked out because you can't pay the bills.


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## golfergirl

turnera said:


> So why haven't you filed?
> 
> You can always cancel the divorce or remarry some day. But you can't get your house back if you get kicked out because you can't pay the bills.


Some notes re: Florida divorce 

Legal Separation

Overview on Legal Separation

There is NO legal separation in Florida. This is one of the most popular myths in Florida. There may be some states that have the concept of legal separation. In those states you can prepare a filing for legal separation and have it heard in the local court. But there is no legal separation defined in the Florida statutes.

There is a Florida Substitute to Filing for Legal Separation

You can petition the court for child support during a marital separation
In some cases, you can petition the court for alimony during a marital separation. This type of temporary alimony award seems to be extremely rare.
An Excerpt from the Florida Statute on Legal Separation

"Alimony and Child Support Unconnected With Dissolution - If a person having the ability to contribute to the maintenance of his or her spouse and support of his or her minor child fails to do so, the spouse who is not receiving support or who has custody of the child or with whom the child has primary residence may apply to the court for alimony and for support for the child without seeking dissolution of marriage, and the court shall enter an order as it deems just and proper."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> I can double check with her, but until the divorce is filed, there isn't anything to make him pay, according to her. My best friend went with me and specifically asked that question, because I had a feeling his check wasn't going to go in on Friday.
> 
> The thing the lawyer is sending is an attempt to settle so that the divorce is uncontested. We give him two weeks to respond to the settlement before we file, and I have to cross my fingers he agrees (I think I was very fair) and signs, so that it doesn't go contested. We can do amendments but I hope he makes this easy. Only thing I wanted him to take in the settlement that he hasn't taken responsibility for is the line of credit, and that was to make our debts even out without splitting each individual debt down the middle and having to pay each other money for separate things. It would be the cleanest "cut" so to speak. And he still comes out ahead because I'm stuck with a car payment and he made out with a motorcycle, a truck, and a canoe with no payments on any of them.


I don't mean to come off rude because I know when stressed and juggling all these balls in the air - things can be very overwhelming, but you seem really unsure about some serious aspects of this whole process. Child support is a biggie. Get certain on these points.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

golfergirl said:


> Some notes re: Florida divorce
> 
> Legal Separation
> 
> Overview on Legal Separation
> 
> There is NO legal separation in Florida. This is one of the most popular myths in Florida. There may be some states that have the concept of legal separation. In those states you can prepare a filing for legal separation and have it heard in the local court. But there is no legal separation defined in the Florida statutes.
> 
> There is a Florida Substitute to Filing for Legal Separation
> 
> You can petition the court for child support during a marital separation
> In some cases, you can petition the court for alimony during a marital separation. This type of temporary alimony award seems to be extremely rare.
> An Excerpt from the Florida Statute on Legal Separation
> 
> "Alimony and Child Support Unconnected With Dissolution - If a person having the ability to contribute to the maintenance of his or her spouse and support of his or her minor child fails to do so, the spouse who is not receiving support or who has custody of the child or with whom the child has primary residence may apply to the court for alimony and for support for the child without seeking dissolution of marriage, and the court shall enter an order as it deems just and proper."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is link to above info. It can't be that he doesn't pay til signed. All support ordered spouses would drag their feet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Niceguy13

Fla is really lacking in divorcee rights. It is a compelte no fault state and until divorce is final it is assumed both parties love their children and will do everything for them. To get said child support she would actually have to go petition for full custody seprate from the divorce as in right now (legal custody not nessicarly physical) Then such things as a mandated CPS visit to both homes etc and so forth. There really isn't much to make the divorce process easy in FLA.

*source various FLA divorce lawyers as that is my state of residence as well and a SIL who forced her sperm donor to sign over rights because it was easier then getting child support from him.


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## Niceguy13

however floridia is very progressive when it comes to "Back" pay. meaning what he is not paying now he will have to pay back when divorce is finalized.


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## turnera

But nothing will happen until she gets the paperwork into the system.


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## Niceguy13

Yeah was just etting you know from all I have heard read about FLA law in this regards it is bleak as it sounds with paperwork for this being done 6months or more after the divorce is finalized.


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## LonelyNLost

Is it wrong to trust the attorney I hired? I am unsure of the logistics, as I'm not the one schooled in laws and divorce processes. I'm going off what I was told by two attorneys. They said if the separation became a long term thing with nothing going towards an actual divorce, it would be wise for me to go down and file for child support unconnected with dissolution, as niceguy said. HOWEVER, it takes 6 plus months for that to go through. Lawyer said I'd be better off just getting the D ball rolling. 

I am not filing because it becomes contested if I do so and will take longer, and cost at least twice as much. As fun as that would be to have him served with papers, I'm going the route that benefits me the most. Which is attempting to settle everything and THEN filing. The attorney is drawing up the settlement this week, she'll send it to me at the end of the week, then it will get mailed to him. He then has two weeks to respond before we file with the courts. Does that make sense? 

Spoke with him last night and he said he'd bring me $80 since his car insurance came out of my account. And I'm paying my mortgage and things, I actually got the equity loan to give me a two month payment skip last night. Woohoo! I'm also working on closing credit cards and such. One of the credit cards calls what hilarious. It was this guy with this interesting accent, straight out of an SNL skit. He knew I wasn't responsible for the balance since I was just a signer, but he kept going on and on about how sorry he was and then he told me, "We aren't just here to collect a debt, we care, and I'm here for you emotionally" I hung up laughing hysterically.


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> This is link to above info. It can't be that he doesn't pay til signed. All support ordered spouses would drag their feet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What I mean by that, is, that until he signs the divorce settlement my lawyer draws up, he isn't legally obligated to pay me anything because the state doesn't allow for that unless you go through filing for support during separation, which takes as long as a divorce does. When he gets the settlement agreement, he can try to alter the terms with my attorney or sign as is. Then we can proceed with filing.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> What I mean by that, is, that until he signs the divorce settlement my lawyer draws up, he isn't legally obligated to pay me anything because the state doesn't allow for that unless you go through filing for support during separation, which takes as long as a divorce does. When he gets the settlement agreement, he can try to alter the terms with my attorney or sign as is. Then we can proceed with filing.


I feel for you! I believe you - just seems so unfair!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop

if your lawyer has not filed divorce papers with the court you can't have a contested or uncontested divorce because there's no motion for divorce . secondly he has no reason not to sign the papers . you are asking for no more than the formula dictates . he will have to pay that some now or have to pay at the time is divorce . by that time you're going to being serious debt. right now you are at a point of negotiation . you can either be too nice and screw yourself or get xactly what your children require and need and are entitled to buy the law.

you really have to remember that he wanted the divorce andhe cheated. used that guilt to your benefit .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

I know! I'm ready to get this show on the road. BELIEVE ME! No more hoping, or praying, or even considering taking him back. We are D.O.N.E. Over! So why drag it out? I just want this chapter over so the next one can start. Would like to be able to know how much I'll be getting so I can have a budget and make arrangements if I need to. Will be nice to know it's MY money and I can control how it's spent. I'm enjoying being able to find the positives in things. 

I'm so flipping anxious for this settlement agreement to be drawn up and he can receive it so I can get an idea of what I'm in for. I have no way of knowing how this is going to go until he gets that paperwork. Then it's on like donkey kong, lol!


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## LonelyNLost

ClipClop said:


> if your lawyer has not filed divorce papers with the court you can't have a contested or uncontested divorce because there's no motion for divorce . secondly he has no reason not to sign the papers . you are asking for no more than the formula dictates . he will have to pay that some now or have to pay at the time is divorce . by that time you're going to being serious debt. right now you are at a point of negotiation . you can either be too nice and screw yourself or get xactly what your children require and need and are entitled to buy the law.
> 
> you really have to remember that he wanted the divorce andhe cheated. used that guilt to your benefit .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I get that it's not contested or uncontested until filed, but the way it is filed is what determines that; either there's two signatures or one. And depending on that, it determines how much my lawyer charges. Big factor.

He does have a choice of signing the settlement agreement I'm offering because it's EVERYTHING not just child support. And I get that it's a formula, and I'm sure he does too. The issue might be him freaking and then trying to see the kids MORE so that his support goes down since it's based on how many overnights the kids have with him. 

I think I'm being completely fair in the proposal. Not too nice and not screwing myself. I think he'd be a fool not to take it as is. I really have a feeling that it will go one extreme or the other. He might just bow out gracefully because he does feel like the scum of the earth and he'll be glad I took the initiative. Just worried that he'll be pissed that I hired a lawyer and he'll think that's what I did with his money. Which I didn't, it was a separate fund. But he might get mad about that and decide to be a jerk. Hard to tell lately. One minute he's all nice and the next he's being weird. I'm hoping the guilt DOES work to my benefit.

Tonight he is coming to pick up the kids for an hour, and I told him I want him to teach me how to use the hedge trimmers and the weed eater. Should be interesting...


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## ClipClop

You shouldassume it will be contested and stick him with your lawyers fees.

Trying for uncontested puts you at a disadvantage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

ClipClop said:


> You shouldassume it will be contested and stick him with your lawyers fees.
> 
> Trying for uncontested puts you at a disadvantage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, if things go as planned he won't have a pot to piss in, so he wouldn't be able to pay my legal fees.

He wants this amicable and resolved easily. He just wants to be able to ride off into the sunset into his fantasy land. He is obviously living in fantasy land right now. I don't think I'm at a disadvantage. He really holds nothing over me. I took the initiative and got a lawyer and now I'm telling HIM what I want. He wants out, and this is what I want. He's already given me the house, the car, and everything inside. He bowed out with only his personal possessions. He even left his dignity behind, bwahahaha! 

The letter just lets him know, "Hey. Your wife wants these things in the divorce. Sign here and it goes smooth. Or don't, and you're in for a long war." If he has half a brain cell left, he'll take my offer. He's asked me in the past if I would do mediation, actually several times. I have to agree to it, and uncontested is what he wants. This way, I've already figured it all out and hopefully he just takes the easy way out. I think I was beyond fair. But we'll see. My goal is not to make his life a living hell, it's just to protect my livelihood for the sake of the kids. I could be a real b!tch and insist that his infidelity is included in the divorce settlement, but I didn't even go there.


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## ClipClop

You bounce from fear to bravado, have you noticed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

ClipClop said:


> You bounce from fear to bravado, have you noticed?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why do you say that? I have nothing to fear. I've done nothing wrong. Yes, uncertainty sucks but it's better than limbo. And it's nice to know that I'll be fine and my life is better off without him. I do have a fear of this becoming messy and ugly, so yes. But I'm not afraid of him or afraid of the future, I'd just like this to be over with soon. I'd like to come out relatively unscathed. My nature is to be a conflict avoider. I'm not a boat rocker in the least. That's probably what comes through as fear. It's been said to me several times that it seems I'm afraid of H. But I'm not afraid of HIM, just things getting ugly. He has a lot of anger because of his guilt and I don't like dealing with it. I am extremely type B personality, I promise, though it might not come off here! I have no choice but to be brave. The bravado helps me, it's like self talk. I can do this!


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## tamara24

Lonely,
Your doing great. I think we all do that when our emotions are high and low. Your going through a lot. I can't give you any advice on the financial end, but I would make sure any conversations about money was in writing. He may feel guilty, but he is also looking to start a new life and nobody wants to go into that broke. Remember, he lives in fog city,you live in a place called reality. They are two different worllds and what you may think as fair is way off base in his opinion. Just give the facts ma'am,just the facts. He can't argue with that.

Hang in there, this too shall pass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> Your doing great. I think we all do that when our emotions are high and low. Your going through a lot. I can't give you any advice on the financial end, but I would make sure any conversations about money was in writing. He may feel guilty, but he is also looking to start a new life and nobody wants to go into that broke. Remember, he lives in fog city,you live in a place called reality. They are two different worllds and what you may think as fair is way off base in his opinion. Just give the facts ma'am,just the facts. He can't argue with that.
> 
> Hang in there, this too shall pass.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, I really appreciate all of you. You're like my own little cheerleading team!  

I am working on the email to him asking about the money and seeing if he'll trade weekends up with me since I have some events to go to for my friend's wedding. He has said he's going to be broke, but I'm not sure he realizes HOW broke. I just hope it's worth it to him, because he's made his bed and now it's time to lay in it. 

As far as fair, I just meant the debts. Not much to argue with in regards to the child support, it is what it is due to the prescribed formula. Instead of splitting each individual debt, we just divided them out so they came to about the same amount for each of us. So he'll have his responsibilities and I'll have mine. I can just see him throwing a fit over the home equity loan since I get the house he'll say I should get that. But it was used to consolidate credit cards and such we had before we had the house. So he should pay for it. 

I do know it will all pass. I just want to fast forward to that part! I'm working on my email to him. My guess is that he won't respond to anything about the money.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Why do you say that? I have nothing to fear. I've done nothing wrong. Yes, uncertainty sucks but it's better than limbo. And it's nice to know that I'll be fine and my life is better off without him. I do have a fear of this becoming messy and ugly, so yes. But I'm not afraid of him or afraid of the future, I'd just like this to be over with soon. I'd like to come out relatively unscathed. My nature is to be a conflict avoider. I'm not a boat rocker in the least. That's probably what comes through as fear. It's been said to me several times that it seems I'm afraid of H. But I'm not afraid of HIM, just things getting ugly. He has a lot of anger because of his guilt and I don't like dealing with it. I am extremely type B personality, I promise, though it might not come off here! I have no choice but to be brave. The bravado helps me, it's like self talk. I can do this!


What I admire about you is I have asked you tough questions. While I can tell I may have ruffled you a bit, never once did you discount the message. You may have thought it over and discounted it, but you always gave it consideration. It takes a big person to do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Lonely, most laywers draw up a property settlement agreement (PSA) first to see if that can be worked out before filing for divorce. In your case I would just file for the divorce already.

Your H may not even sign the sep agreement. Someone on here told you to just assume it will be a contested divorce and he won't sign the PSA. I agree. Start thinking about it like that.


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> What I admire about you is I have asked you tough questions. While I can tell I may have ruffled you a bit, never once did you discount the message. You may have thought it over and discounted it, but you always gave it consideration. It takes a big person to do that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. I do take all advice into consideration, because you all take the time to read my stuff and respond. I value everyone's opinion because I haven't lived through this before, and lots of you have. I know I waffled a lot and was very wishy washy, but I think I was, and still am, in a fog just like him. But it's a different kind of fog!




Jellybeans said:


> Lonely, most laywers draw up a property settlement agreement (PSA) first to see if that can be worked out before filing for divorce. In your case I would just file for the divorce already.
> 
> Your H may not even sign the sep agreement. Someone on here told you to just assume it will be a contested divorce and he won't sign the PSA. I agree. Start thinking about it like that.


I can start thinking worse case scenario, but it's really not something I want to envision. She didn't call it a PSA. He wants a divorce, and he wants it to be easy (wanted to do mediation) so I don't see why he would refuse to sign it if that's what he wants. Only time will tell I suppose.


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## Jellybeans

ClipClop said:


> He wants a divorce, and he wants it to be easy (wanted to do mediation) so I don't see why he would refuse to sign it if that's what he wants.


In a perfect world, this would make sense.
But no divorce is ever "easy." it gets ugly. So start gearing for "worst case scenario"--that way there will be no surprises later.

My H also wanted a divorce and wanted to resolve it "The easy way, Jelly." The easy way for him was sending me paper after paper for motions and suing me. 

I'm not saying this to upset you, I am just telling you to get ready... because while it would SEEM like the wayward would sign their name on the dotted line, they have a sense of entitlement that knows no bounds. Mark my words...


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> In a perfect world, this would make sense.
> But no divorce is ever "easy." it gets ugly. So start gearing for "worst case scenario"--that way there will be no surprises later.
> 
> My H also wanted a divorce and wanted to resolve it "The easy way, Jelly." The easy way for him was sending me paper after paper for motions and suing me.
> 
> I'm not saying this to upset you, I am just telling you to get ready... because while it would SEEM like the wayward would sign their name on the dotted line, they have a sense of entitlement that knows no bounds. Mark my words...


I hope you're wrong!  For my sake. I understand gearing for worst case, but if it goes contested, I'll have to just pay the attorney by the hour because I wouldn't be able to afford the fee for contested unless I closed out my 401K.

I hope he stays in the wayward phase where he just wants out, no questions asked. One can hope, right?!


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## tamara24

Lonely,
Again, it doesn't matter that you were fair and used an equation to figure out child support. It doesn't matter that you have ignored his blatent cheating,treated like crud. He still sees this as your fault because he is all out for himself. Fair is not a word in the vocabulary. He asked you to mediate because he wants to get out of this as easy as possible. You are demanding what comes to some, a house payment a month. By no means are you asking for something that is out of this world,but he is looking at his future if half his checks are paying for his past. He is not looking at it as taking care of his kids because in essense, he still will be giving you the check.

As far as the kids are concerned, I would not want to give him a chance to increase his visitations. Your kids are young,need to stay on schedule and frankly after not taking them for an entire week cause the tramp was in town and the fact that he just "decided" not to have his check deposited and left you scrambling with grocery money,he has put his kids needs last. You are fighting for their needs and giving him more time with them to wrangle out of support is wrong. What happens if you give him more time, you get less support and then he just can't fit the kids in his schedule when the tramp visits,he has other opportunities as a single guy, or has to work late. You can't just automatically adjust his payments.

Keep your head up, and understand this can be potentially ugly and he first will be hit with divorce, then your demands. He was in the control position, but now, you are taking the lead and he isn't going to like being in the back seat no matter how fair it seems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I hope he stays in the wayward phase where he just wants out, no questions asked. One can hope, right?!


Oh they want out--they just want it to go THEIR way the whole way through. It's that entitlement thing again.


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## Niceguy13

I hate entitlement then again if she ends up leaving me I am going to get what is owed to me, won't push for more but will push for what I am owed.


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## LonelyNLost

I agree with everything tamara. I do think it will be a big slap of reality. I don't want to increase his visitation, because I think the current schedule is good for everyone. But I do think I could possibly let him keep them overnight on Thursdays, it would save him the gas money of driving back up here to drop them off, and give him 2 more overnights in a two week period which would drop him into the middle bracket. I just don't know how I'll afford things. I also don't like him keeping them on a school night. And you're right, I don't like how he dropped them, so soon after the schedule was instituted, for Vegas Skank.

He picked up the kids tonight and I asked him to show me how to use the hedge trimmers since our HOA is sending letters about it. He then just did it for me, along with killing some wasp nests. Then he asked if I had bug spray and wouldn't go in the house, which he calls "your house". The cable got shut off today, and my son mentioned it so he offered to come in and unplug them from the box and put them into the wall so we could have basic cable. I said okay. That was awkward! Him in OUR bedroom. He looked around a lot, with this bewildered sad look on his face. I just replaced the bed set and he knows the remote is in the knightstand but he asked for it without going in it himself. I think he was taking in the idea of being a stranger in his own house. We even laughed a little bit and joked and enjoyed the kids. I lent him my ipod cord again. I said to a friend, "I guess I'll let him borrow it I trust him" then I caught myself and said, "No, I'll never TRUST him, haha". 

He then left and called me to discuss money and said how he was trying to get caught up and he didn't understand where the money went. He said the last thing he wanted to do was screw me over or leave me high and dry, and that's why he put his checks in and spent no more than $200 per check (which is BS). He doesn't understand how the bills didn't get paid. He then said he'll try to get caught up and give me money within the next couple of checks and he's sorry. He said then we can figure out child support and he's guessing it will be about $450-550 per month. But two different lawyers told me it would be $850-$880 per month. OUCH! So, yeah, reality is going to hit when he gets the paperwork from the lawyer. I do feel a tiny bit bad for him at that amount, it's like half his pay. I don't know how it's right! But I'll still be squeaking by. 

JB~ He seems kind of at odds with himself right now. I got this sense of him feeling a little bad when he was here today. It could be something else going on, but I don't really know. Deep down he was a good guy, and I can't imagine that guy is gone. But of course when the weapons come out who knows who I'll be dealing with. I just don't really know, but I get the whole be prepared for the worst idea. He did pay me the $80 for his car insurance, but I'm out I think for quite a while.


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## LonelyNLost

Any suggestions for how to word an email to him that gets him to basically acknowledge that he's not giving me any money? I have to ask him to switch some weekends around for me because I have wedding stuff to go to for a friend, so I need to email that, too. But I also need to say something about him owing me, but I wasn't sure if I should put an amount? Any ideas?


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## tamara24

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> Again, it doesn't matter that you were fair and used an equation to figure out child support. It doesn't matter that you have ignored his blatent cheating,treated like crud. He still sees this as your fault because he is all out for himself. Fair is not a word in the vocabulary. He asked you to mediate because he wants to get out of this as easy as possible. You are demanding what comes to some, a house payment a month. By no means are you asking for something that is out of this world,but he is looking at his future if half his checks are paying for his past. He is not looking at it as taking care of his kids because in essense, he still will be giving you the check.
> 
> As far as the kids are concerned, I would not want to give him a chance to increase his visitations. Your kids are young,need to stay on schedule and frankly after not taking them for an entire week cause the tramp was in town and the fact that he just "decided" not to have his check deposited and left you scrambling with grocery money,he has put his kids needs last. You are fighting for their needs and giving him more time with them to wrangle out of support is wrong. What happens if you give him more time, you get less support and then he just can't fit the kids in his schedule when the tramp visits,he has other opportunities as a single guy, or has to work late. You can't just automatically adjust his payments.
> 
> Keep your head up, and understand this can be potentially ugly and he first will be hit with divorce, then your demands. He was in the control position, but now, you are taking the lead and he isn't going to like being in the back seat no matter how fair it seems.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Tell him that right now you are struggling financially since he left and need $ to pay for the house and other bills. Yes, throw out an amount. One that covers the bills and whatnot.

Where is your laywer on sending that stuff to him?


----------



## tamara24

Lonely,

I say this more to him than you. Real "ADULTS" sit down and discuss these issues. This is how I would handle it.

Since you are uncertain on how I have managed the money, would you like to come over and have dinner with the kids? After they are bathed and put to bed, I will sit down and show you where the money has been spent to eliminate any concerns that you may have. I appreciate you giving me the 80.00 to cover your car insurnce, but it has left me to pay mortgage, electric,and groceries on my own. I estimate that your share of this that needs to be reimbursed is XXX. I will show you howi calculated that amount when we dscuss this. I am sure, that you want our kids to feel, safe, secure and happy through this process as much as I, so we need to come to to an agreement since you did not deposit any money into the joint account to help pay bills and. Are concerned where the money has been spent.

The reason I say to invite him over, is because he feels bad in his own house. Use this guilt to your advantage. This will help when he is struggling with his frustration when he realizes you served him with divorce papers first and then asking for support. You have the upper hand in this as he is about to lose what control he had. Also,it mentions his nonpayment of bills and shows that you are willing to sit down and discuss this with him. You have nothing to hide,but he will feel bad! dress nice but not overly nice to look like your dressing for him. Dinner may be hard but again, it makes him more uncomfortable than you and gives you more ground. It also allows the kids to see you working together. He gets to spend a little time with them too. 

" Be the kinda woman that when you rise out of bed each morning, the devil says, "crap, she's up!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

^ I like that idea.


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## WhereAmI

Jellybeans said:


> ^ I like that idea.


Word.


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## golfergirl

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> 
> I say this more to him than you. Real "ADULTS" sit down and discuss these issues. This is how I would handle it.
> 
> Since you are uncertain on how I have managed the money, would you like to come over and have dinner with the kids? After they are bathed and put to bed, I will sit down and show you where the money has been spent to eliminate any concerns that you may have. I appreciate you giving me the 80.00 to cover your car insurnce, but it has left me to pay mortgage, electric,and groceries on my own. I estimate that your share of this that needs to be reimbursed is XXX. I will show you howi calculated that amount when we dscuss this. I am sure, that you want our kids to feel, safe, secure and happy through this process as much as I, so we need to come to to an agreement since you did not deposit any money into the joint account to help pay bills and. Are concerned where the money has been spent.
> 
> The reason I say to invite him over, is because he feels bad in his own house. Use this guilt to your advantage. This will help when he is struggling with his frustration when he realizes you served him with divorce papers first and then asking for support. You have the upper hand in this as he is about to lose what control he had. Also,it mentions his nonpayment of bills and shows that you are willing to sit down and discuss this with him. You have nothing to hide,but he will feel bad! dress nice but not overly nice to look like your dressing for him. Dinner may be hard but again, it makes him more uncomfortable than you and gives you more ground. It also allows the kids to see you working together. He gets to spend a little time with them too.
> 
> " Be the kinda woman that when you rise out of bed each morning, the devil says, "crap, she's up!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like this because it's mature - but I also like it because it will stress Vegas skank - wondering what's happening with both of you - should she catch wind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Lonely,
> 
> I say this more to him than you. Real "ADULTS" sit down and discuss these issues. This is how I would handle it.
> 
> Since you are uncertain on how I have managed the money, would you like to come over and have dinner with the kids? After they are bathed and put to bed, I will sit down and show you where the money has been spent to eliminate any concerns that you may have. I appreciate you giving me the 80.00 to cover your car insurnce, but it has left me to pay mortgage, electric,and groceries on my own. I estimate that your share of this that needs to be reimbursed is XXX. I will show you howi calculated that amount when we dscuss this. I am sure, that you want our kids to feel, safe, secure and happy through this process as much as I, so we need to come to to an agreement since you did not deposit any money into the joint account to help pay bills and. Are concerned where the money has been spent.
> 
> The reason I say to invite him over, is because he feels bad in his own house. Use this guilt to your advantage. This will help when he is struggling with his frustration when he realizes you served him with divorce papers first and then asking for support. You have the upper hand in this as he is about to lose what control he had. Also,it mentions his nonpayment of bills and shows that you are willing to sit down and discuss this with him. You have nothing to hide,but he will feel bad! dress nice but not overly nice to look like your dressing for him. Dinner may be hard but again, it makes him more uncomfortable than you and gives you more ground. It also allows the kids to see you working together. He gets to spend a little time with them too.
> 
> " Be the kinda woman that when you rise out of bed each morning, the devil says, "crap, she's up!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's freaking genius! Love you! So the amount I ask for as his share, should it match up with the child support I'll be asking for in the divorce papers? Or do I just calculate a portion of each check (like $425 per paycheck)? Because I'm not sure how I'll show him what I calculated since that's a court ordered amount, you know? 

I've also been craving one of his best meals...steak and potatoes. Maybe I can get him to cook that for me, lol. I've been thinking about asking for a sort of "last supper" haha. 

And he'd go to the grave before he told Vegas Skank he was over here. I'm sure he won't tell her he was here last night. I do believe a lot of their relationship is founded on lies. Last night I saw something different in his eyes, the coldness had faded, and I might have saw a glimpse of compassion. He WILL always love me, I can tell. But he knows he's messed that up. I really do think he misses me. But every day I miss him a little less. He's not the same person. I don't know who this guy is, but I will never know. I just hope he's a good father to my children.


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## Jellybeans

WhatEVER you do, do not at all give any mention or notion that you have filed or drawn up anything or "I calculated X amount is what you would owe me." You need to play dumb. Real dumb. So he does not have ONE SINGLE CLUE you have gotten your gear ready for war!

It's on now! LOL

Re: Vegas Skank-- F-ck her. Don't worry about that ho!


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## tamara24

Do NOT discuss anything about child support. Brush it off as let's get through these bills and we can get to that later. Do not agree to any amounts for support just discuss what he currently owes you and what you have paid.

Glad you liked it, I have my moments!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

HE IS SO UNBELIEVABLE! 

My son forgot his backpack this morning with his toys in it. He's asking me after school if I'll give him my house key so daddy can take him by the house. I told him, "No, you know why I don't want to do that." H comes to pick him up, I'm in a meeting. This text convo then takes place...

H: I'm gonna run him by the house to get his wrestlers. Gonna go to petsmart and get crickets.

Me: How are you going to get in?

H: Nevermind, I guess you changed the locks.

H: Crazy how it's still "MY" house too when it comes to the mortgage yet I can't even let our kid in to get his stuff LOL. No worries. (This is said in an extremely sarcastic tone I'm sure, he did it in all his texts about being done with me and my digging.)

And me? NO RESPONSE! Aren't you proud of me? :smthumbup:

I wanted to say, "You told me I could change the locks. I'm moving on just like you wanted me to." But nothing. What the hell does he expect? I told him I needed privacy. My paperwork is sitting on the kitchen table. He asked me the other day if I wanted the garage door clicker back. He took all his belongings. Think it's just reality hitting? We'll see how he is when he drops them off tonight. 



Jellybeans said:


> WhatEVER you do, do not at all give any mention or notion that you have filed or drawn up anything or "I calculated X amount is what you would owe me." You need to play dumb. Real dumb. So he does not have ONE SINGLE CLUE you have gotten your gear ready for war!
> 
> It's on now! LOL
> 
> Re: Vegas Skank-- F-ck her. Don't worry about that ho!


So I don't say "you owe me _____"? I will not give him any idea that I've seen a lawyer and gotten the ball rolling. I should just ask him over to look at money and bills and such? Is tamara's email okay as is? I don't really know what amount to ask for. Especially now that he's going to say that all those bills are not his responsibility because he doesn't live there.




tamara24 said:


> Do NOT discuss anything about child support. Brush it off as let's get through these bills and we can get to that later. Do not agree to any amounts for support just discuss what he currently owes you and what you have paid.
> 
> Glad you liked it, I have my moments!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, moment of genius.  I'm waiting for a reply from the lawyer, hoping the settlement is almost drawn up. I don't know what to say as far as what he owes me. He's going to just say that he doesn't care about the groceries, cable, electric, water, gas, my car, the mortgage, etc. because he doesn't use them. I can hear it now.


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## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> And me? NO RESPONSE! Aren't you proud of me? :smthumbup:


I am! :smthumbup:


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## Jellybeans

No, don't say _you owe me (the amount that was outlined in the settlement_). Just say, _I was looking at the bills and I need X amount to cover X bills..._

DO NOT let him even have an inkling that you saw or talked to a lawyer about your rights or any stipulated amount...ok???? 

You have to play DUMB. REALLY DUMB, ok? That way when he gets hit with the D papers, it is going to be totally out of left field.

MUAHAHAHAHAHA ::evil laugh::

I am VERY proud of you for not responding, grasshopper!


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> No, don't say _you owe me (the amount that was outlined in the settlement_). Just say, _I was looking at the bills and I need X amount to cover X bills..._
> 
> DO NOT let him even have an inkling that you saw or talked to a lawyer about your rights or any stipulated amount...ok????
> 
> You have to play DUMB. REALLY DUMB, ok? That way when he gets hit with the D papers, it is going to be totally out of left field.
> 
> MUAHAHAHAHAHA ::evil laugh::
> 
> I am VERY proud of you for not responding, grasshopper!


Yay! I did something right for once! 

Yes, I am NOT letting him know a thing. Kind of funny that he was that irked over me changing the locks. He is coming off as controlling or something, which is not anything I ever thought of him. Do I just approach it as, "Your kids are living under and using these utilities and this house and so you owe a share of it"? I am playing dumb. Jerk didn't bring back my iPod cord either, so I guess I'm not going to be lending him that anymore. He just walked up to the door with the kids, I opened it and then slammed it behind him, haha.

REALITY IS HITTING! Slowly, but surely. I'm ready.


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## tamara24

Good Job! Yes, play dumb. Your children need food to eat, a roof over their heads and cable is optional but I think he would like to keep his kids entertained. Phone is your responsibility unless your cells are together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Good Job! Yes, play dumb. Your children need food to eat, a roof over their heads and cable is optional but I think he would like to keep his kids entertained. Phone is your responsibility unless your cells are together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Got it! I'll work on the email tonight. Trying to figure out the bills and such and which he'd be responsible for. At this point it's just an amount, which he probably won't give any. 

We just have cell phones on individual accounts (or else his cheating would have been caught sooner). So just mortgage, groceries, utilities, equity loans, and credit cards. 

Now that he's irked with me again, not sure I'll be very successful in asking him to come over and make me steak. LOL.


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## ClipClop

Don't worry about what he said about the house. Even you or I might have been shocked and emotional when the reality hit. Just ask him over for dinner, but offer to cook first "unless you would like to cook steak. We all love your steak."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tamara24

Yep, offer to make dinner and say unless YOU would like to grill out steaks, we all miss those! Smile nicely!hehe!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop

And make really strong drinks and then when he passes out, take pix of you and him in compromising positions to post on FB. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

You guys are brilliant! Love the wording. I'll work on it. Although he's being a total jerk. I talked to my neighbor friend (her hubs is friends with H) and she told me that he told her hubby that we were getting along better, and told him about Tuesday night. I think it makes him feel better about himself and what he's done if I'm friendly to him, you know? 

So today, I pick up the kids and go out and my daughter has a fever. I stopped home and got her meds but I HAD to go out for a gift for a bridal shower tomorrow, and the mall is quite a distance. I get almost there and daughter pukes big time in the car. I'm freaked out. And I'm trying to figure out how to get this gift. I turned the car around and headed back home (so nasty). I call H and tell him what happened and ask him if he'll go to the mall right by his house and get the gift for me and then bring it to work and I'll stop by tomorrow and pay him back. He says no. I ask why and he says because he has no money. I ask him to borrow it and he says no. Then I go on about how daughter is sick and he annoyingly says, "What do you want me to do about it?" and then I ask if he still has my iPod cord and he yells "YES!" I was like, "What is your deal?" and he says nothing. He acted just like he did when Vegas Skank was here around Easter. Same attitude. He said he had plans on Sunday, but I doubt she'd be here again already. Who knows?

And clipclop, I love the way you think, hahahaha! But I seriously doubt he'd accept the offer, and even if he did there's no way he would drink.


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## ClipClop

He'd be stupid not to accept so do try. At least you offered.

I was actually thinking a Bobbit at first. 

You have to stop asking him for favors. You are on your own. That means handling things yourself or developing other supportive relationships. It is tough at first but you will be proud of yourself when you can say, HA! I don't need your cheating ass to handle my life or OUR family. 

Also, the crying poor crap... he's already starting trying to convince you something RE support in the divorce. Wait til he sees the state formula! Too bad bud. Cries of poor don't cut it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

ClipClop said:


> He'd be stupid not to accept so do try. At least you offered.
> 
> I was actually thinking a Bobbit at first.
> 
> You have to stop asking him for favors. You are on your own. That means handling things yourself or developing other supportive relationships. It is tough at first but you will be proud of yourself when you can say, HA! I don't need your cheating ass to handle my life or OUR family.
> 
> Also, the crying poor crap... he's already starting trying to convince you something RE support in the divorce. Wait til he sees the state formula! Too bad bud. Cries of poor don't cut it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do HATE asking him for anything. I have a new guy friend that was offering to help but I don't want to give him the wrong idea and he's a little too sweet on me at the moment. He will be in shock when he realizes how much child support will be. I am so stressed about that, because I know that's going to be a big issue, he's going to want to keep them another overnight every week. I just don't want to hear it. Or deal with it. Still waiting for my lawyer to call, I really hope she is done with the paperwork!


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## ClipClop

Where? They need their own rooms, etc. Your lawyer will handle that. Yes, expect a battle, but that's what lawyers are for.

As for your friend, disturbs me you'd even mention him. High road. Hubs chose the low road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

ClipClop said:


> Where? They need their own rooms, etc. Your lawyer will handle that. Yes, expect a battle, but that's what lawyers are for.
> 
> As for your friend, disturbs me you'd even mention him. High road. Hubs chose the low road.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I did use the living situation as leverage in the beginning when he wanted 6 overnights every two week period. Right now he has them 2 overnights every two weeks. But the lawyer will cost double if we have anything contested. So that's where I'm a little stuck. He's living with his parents, who have two spare rooms. H is in one, and the kids sleep in the other one when they are there. Daughter just turned 3 and he has her in a pack N play, which I told him wasn't an appropriate bed for her. But right now that's what I've got to work with.

My friend is really just a friend, I promise. I know my boundaries and it isn't the same type of friend hubs has. I did NOT accept his offer to help because I refuse to be the damsel in distress. He's just someone to talk to and he makes me laugh. He knows my situation and doesn't expect anything more than friendship and I'm good with that. We don't go on dates or anything. I've gotten my lectures from here and from my best friend. Keeping it platonic, I promise! I'm NOT ready for anything more. I know that. My heart is really damaged.


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## ClipClop

You are being penny wise and pound foolish. Your lawyer is an investment in your families future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

ClipClop said:


> You are being penny wise and pound foolish. Your lawyer is an investment in your families future.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would agree, but if there is no money, then I have no option. I have no way to pay more than I'm planning on paying, absolutely NONE. Basically if he goes contested, I have to cancel out of the flat rate uncontested and see if she can bill me hourly. I'm spending more than I have by going with a lawyer. He wanted to do mediation. This is the happiest middle I can handle, $1800 for everything but the $400 filing fee. When I say I'm scraping by, I'm not kidding. I'm a teacher and about to get my last paycheck for the summer. Times will be tough!


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## DelinquentGurl

It just blows my mind how someone who once loved you with everything, turned so cold and heartless.

Lonely...you are so much better than your stbx. One day he will get out of this fog he is in and regret all that he has lost.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyGriffinFan

Lonely, where is your family throughout all of this? Do they live near you? 
Could you ask them for help, money wise, if he contests the D?


----------



## LonelyNLost

DelinquentGurl said:


> It just blows my mind how someone who once loved you with everything, turned so cold and heartless.
> 
> Lonely...you are so much better than your stbx. One day he will get out of this fog he is in and regret all that he has lost.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Believe me, it blows my mind to. At times, I get brief glimpses of the man who was my husband, but he is cold and heartless. And he even goes and tells our neighbor that things are better between us, because it eases his guilt that I could face him and be cordial. I thank you all for letting me see all this through a different set of eyes. I really think I'd be in a different place if it weren't for TAM and my wonderful friends and family.




KathyGriffinFan said:


> Lonely, where is your family throughout all of this? Do they live near you?
> Could you ask them for help, money wise, if he contests the D?


My parents live about 3 hours away. My mom and stepdad are in a bad place financially as they both own their own businesses and are suffering from the economy. My dad and stepmom don't have much either since she stays home and he is the only one working. There are also 7 daughters between him and my stepmom. I haven't asked him for help, but no one really has the funds to help me. Kind of worried that his parents might help him, as they have money stashed away from an inheritance and a car accident settlement. I just think the main points are going to be that he doesn't want to take the home equity debt and he won't want the child support to be that much.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Believe me, it blows my mind to. At times, I get brief glimpses of the man who was my husband, but he is cold and heartless. And he even goes and tells our neighbor that things are better between us, because it eases his guilt that I could face him and be cordial. I thank you all for letting me see all this through a different set of eyes. I really think I'd be in a different place if it weren't for TAM and my wonderful friends and family.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My parents live about 3 hours away. My mom and stepdad are in a bad place financially as they both own their own businesses and are suffering from the economy. My dad and stepmom don't have much either since she stays home and he is the only one working. There are also 7 daughters between him and my stepmom. I haven't asked him for help, but no one really has the funds to help me. Kind of worried that his parents might help him, as they have money stashed away from an inheritance and a car accident settlement. I just think the main points are going to be that he doesn't want to take the home equity debt and he won't want the child support to be that much.


If he takes home equity debt and defaults, can they come back on your home? Just wondering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> If he takes home equity debt and defaults, can they come back on your home? Just wondering.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, we'd have to work it out. But his name will most likely stay on the mortgage, but come off the deed. So it works both ways.


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## LonelyNLost

Here's the email I sent tonight.  Let me know whatcha think. I know it's long and confusing and wordy, but hopefully the point gets across and I have documentation of a few things. Still haven't heard back from the lawyer, so I'm going to leave a message for her to get back to me ASAP.

_H,

I just wanted to touch base about a few things to make sure we were on the same page.

I understand that you are uncertain as to how I have managed the money, so I'd like to extend an offer for you to come over and have dinner with the kids. I will cook dinner, unless you would like to grill out steak and potatoes, we all miss those!  After they are bathed and put to bed, I will sit down and show you where the money has been spent to eliminate any concerns that you may have. I appreciate you giving me the $80.00 to cover your car insurance that came out of my account on 5/15, but it has left me to pay mortgage, electric, groceries, daycare, credit cards, gas, lunch money, car payment, etc. on my own. I am sure that you want our kids to feel, safe, secure and happy through this process as much as I, so we need to come to to an agreement since you did not deposit any money into the joint account to help pay bills on 5/13/11 and are concerned where the money has been spent. I've paid your portion of these bills, and would like a concrete answer as to when you'll be reimbursing me so the family budget stays intact. I am not able to afford all of these responsibilities on my sole income without some help. I do understand that you need to pay some of your bills and you need to pay back a few missed payments. You should be caught up with your next paycheck, and I will need some money in order to pay for some bills that are currently due, which by that time will be past due. Please let me know when you will be helping me out and how much you will be able to reimburse me. Let me know when/if you'd like to sit down and discuss. 

Also just an FYI, if your new bank account is at the credit union, you can easily have it set up to transfer money from your account into the joint account. I would be able to access the money that way. I will be leaving the savings account open so that my car loan can stay under that account. This would be a very easy way for you to transfer money to me for the kids. 

As per our previous conversation, I did want to come to some sort of agreement in regards to switching the dates of visitation for the next 4 weeks. I was able to get (neighbor) to watch them for the time I was at the bridal shower this past Saturday, 5/21 since you had prior plans. She was a lifesaver. This coming weekend, 5/28-5/29, is scheduled to be your weekend. There's a couple ways we could do this. I'm open to input regarding either way. 

Option #1: I was thinking maybe we could just split the weekends for these few weeks. Like for the weekends of 5/28-5/29. 6/4-6/5, and 6/11-6/12, you could pick them up on Saturday evenings at 6pm, and then I'll pick them up from you the next day, Sunday, at like 5pm. Then, on Friday 6/17, you would pick them up at 5pm or 6pm, and keep them until Monday morning at 8am. That way you'd have them all of Father's Day weekend and I'll be able to attend the wedding festivities. The weekend following, 6/25, you'd be back to the normal schedule and that would be your weekend. Then I'd have them on 7/2-7/3 and so on and so forth. 

Option #2: The other way to do it would be to give you this weekend (5/28-29) as normal, but then you'd get them again the following weekend (6/4-6/5). Then I'd have them the next weekend (6/11-12), and you'd get them for Father's Day weekend (Fri 6/17 at 5pm to Mon 6/20 at 8am). I'd then have them for two weekends in a row to get back on the original schedule, so I'd have them 6/25-6/26 and 7/2-7/3. Then you'd have them 7/9-7/10 and so on and so forth. Hope that's not too confusing.

Just a couple dates I definitely need covered, and might require you to rearrange your work schedule...

* Thurs. June 2nd - Teacher Planning Day - pick up son early in the morning (7:30am at school?)
* Sat. June 4th - Pick up at 5pm (instead of usual 6pm)
* Fri. June 17th - Pick up at 6pm and keep until Monday morning 6/20 (You'd take Sat. off instead of Thurs.)


Also, son's birthday falls on a Wednesday, so we could do a party for him on the weekend of 6/4-5 or the weekend of 6/11-12 or maybe the evening of his actual birthday. He would like to have one party with his family there. We discussed it, and it's what he wants. It would be my hope that everyone can put aside their issues for a day so that our son can have an enjoyable birthday in light of the current situation. I know my side of the family is fine with this. It's really sad that he's sitting here with me planning out his party supplies and not counting you or your family in that count. I do not and will not have the funds to do much for his birthday either, just as what happened with daughter. He really wants to do something at the house, but I can't entertain a bunch of 9 year old boys here. So I was thinking about maybe letting him just have a sleepover one night separate from his party. Any ideas? We could go in half on something like Laser Tag or something on his actual birthday. Let me know what you think. 

-LnL
_

Kind of just a funny aside. Our son's birthday is the anniversary of our first date. So almost 14 years ago I became his and he became mine. And now the date lives in infamy because it's our son's date of birth. Damn irony.


----------



## Jellybeans

I am proud of you grasshopper. You have come a long way. :smthumbup:

I still think it was HELLA long but you kept ALL of your emotions out of it so you get a gold star, missy!

Probably woulda just gone with the first paragraph and ended it there so that you could discuss the rest in person but again, you have made me a proud TAM'er.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I am proud of you grasshopper. You have come a long way. :smthumbup:
> 
> I still think it was HELLA long but you kept ALL of your emotions out of it so you get a gold star, missy!
> 
> Probably woulda just gone with the first paragraph and ended it there so that you could discuss the rest in person but again, you have made me a proud TAM'er.


Yay! :yay: :woohoo: 

Yeah, it ended up being super long, but not snooty and not super nice. I'm going for indifferent. That's my goal. 

I really doubt he'll take me up on the offer to look over finances or any situation which would require him to sit in the same room as me. But I'd love me some steak! haha. 

And I accomplished something by showing a few things. One is that I'm encouraging an amicable relationship and putting aside differences for the kids, and another that I'm open to his input. I also acknowledged him not giving me money, so now that's in writing. Who knows if I'll get a response at all. It just really puts the ball in his court.


----------



## tamara24

PERFECT!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Here's the email I sent tonight.  Let me know whatcha think. I know it's long and confusing and wordy, but hopefully the point gets across and I have documentation of a few things. Still haven't heard back from the lawyer, so I'm going to leave a message for her to get back to me ASAP.
> 
> _H,
> 
> I just wanted to touch base about a few things to make sure we were on the same page.
> 
> I understand that you are uncertain as to how I have managed the money, so I'd like to extend an offer for you to come over and have dinner with the kids. I will cook dinner, unless you would like to grill out steak and potatoes, we all miss those!  After they are bathed and put to bed, I will sit down and show you where the money has been spent to eliminate any concerns that you may have. I appreciate you giving me the $80.00 to cover your car insurance that came out of my account on 5/15, but it has left me to pay mortgage, electric, groceries, daycare, credit cards, gas, lunch money, car payment, etc. on my own. I am sure that you want our kids to feel, safe, secure and happy through this process as much as I, so we need to come to to an agreement since you did not deposit any money into the joint account to help pay bills on 5/13/11 and are concerned where the money has been spent. I've paid your portion of these bills, and would like a concrete answer as to when you'll be reimbursing me so the family budget stays intact. I am not able to afford all of these responsibilities on my sole income without some help. I do understand that you need to pay some of your bills and you need to pay back a few missed payments. You should be caught up with your next paycheck, and I will need some money in order to pay for some bills that are currently due, which by that time will be past due. Please let me know when you will be helping me out and how much you will be able to reimburse me. Let me know when/if you'd like to sit down and discuss.
> 
> Also just an FYI, if your new bank account is at the credit union, you can easily have it set up to transfer money from your account into the joint account. I would be able to access the money that way. I will be leaving the savings account open so that my car loan can stay under that account. This would be a very easy way for you to transfer money to me for the kids.
> 
> As per our previous conversation, I did want to come to some sort of agreement in regards to switching the dates of visitation for the next 4 weeks. I was able to get (neighbor) to watch them for the time I was at the bridal shower this past Saturday, 5/21 since you had prior plans. She was a lifesaver. This coming weekend, 5/28-5/29, is scheduled to be your weekend. There's a couple ways we could do this. I'm open to input regarding either way.
> 
> Option #1: I was thinking maybe we could just split the weekends for these few weeks. Like for the weekends of 5/28-5/29. 6/4-6/5, and 6/11-6/12, you could pick them up on Saturday evenings at 6pm, and then I'll pick them up from you the next day, Sunday, at like 5pm. Then, on Friday 6/17, you would pick them up at 5pm or 6pm, and keep them until Monday morning at 8am. That way you'd have them all of Father's Day weekend and I'll be able to attend the wedding festivities. The weekend following, 6/25, you'd be back to the normal schedule and that would be your weekend. Then I'd have them on 7/2-7/3 and so on and so forth.
> 
> Option #2: The other way to do it would be to give you this weekend (5/28-29) as normal, but then you'd get them again the following weekend (6/4-6/5). Then I'd have them the next weekend (6/11-12), and you'd get them for Father's Day weekend (Fri 6/17 at 5pm to Mon 6/20 at 8am). I'd then have them for two weekends in a row to get back on the original schedule, so I'd have them 6/25-6/26 and 7/2-7/3. Then you'd have them 7/9-7/10 and so on and so forth. Hope that's not too confusing.
> 
> Just a couple dates I definitely need covered, and might require you to rearrange your work schedule...
> 
> * Thurs. June 2nd - Teacher Planning Day - pick up son early in the morning (7:30am at school?)
> * Sat. June 4th - Pick up at 5pm (instead of usual 6pm)
> * Fri. June 17th - Pick up at 6pm and keep until Monday morning 6/20 (You'd take Sat. off instead of Thurs.)
> 
> 
> Also, son's birthday falls on a Wednesday, so we could do a party for him on the weekend of 6/4-5 or the weekend of 6/11-12 or maybe the evening of his actual birthday. He would like to have one party with his family there. We discussed it, and it's what he wants. It would be my hope that everyone can put aside their issues for a day so that our son can have an enjoyable birthday in light of the current situation. I know my side of the family is fine with this. It's really sad that he's sitting here with me planning out his party supplies and not counting you or your family in that count. I do not and will not have the funds to do much for his birthday either, just as what happened with daughter. He really wants to do something at the house, but I can't entertain a bunch of 9 year old boys here. So I was thinking about maybe letting him just have a sleepover one night separate from his party. Any ideas? We could go in half on something like Laser Tag or something on his actual birthday. Let me know what you think.
> 
> -LnL
> _
> 
> Kind of just a funny aside. Our son's birthday is the anniversary of our first date. So almost 14 years ago I became his and he became mine. And now the date lives in infamy because it's our son's date of birth. Damn irony.


Awesome. Proud of you too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The only issue I have with it is your comment that you can't entertain a bunch of 9 year old boys at your house. In truth, you don't WANT to. But you COULD.

When DD20 was 10, we had her entire class (about 30 kids) over for a sleepover - the boys camping on one side of the back yard, and the girls camping out on the other side of the back yard. We asked for - and received - help from friends to help chaperone the event so there would be enough adults. We ended the party the next morning (as the adults were showing up for the kids) by having a SuperString party, adults against kids. It was probably the most fun those kids ever had, simply because the adults involved put aside their own comfort (and rest!) to make sure the kids had a good time.

I'm not telling you what to do, just pointing out that, if money is tight, staying home and working your butt off to hold a good party is probably your best bet for a great birthday.


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks everyone!



turnera said:


> The only issue I have with it is your comment that you can't entertain a bunch of 9 year old boys at your house. In truth, you don't WANT to. But you COULD.
> 
> When DD20 was 10, we had her entire class (about 30 kids) over for a sleepover - the boys camping on one side of the back yard, and the girls camping out on the other side of the back yard. We asked for - and received - help from friends to help chaperone the event so there would be enough adults. We ended the party the next morning (as the adults were showing up for the kids) by having a SuperString party, adults against kids. It was probably the most fun those kids ever had, simply because the adults involved put aside their own comfort (and rest!) to make sure the kids had a good time.
> 
> I'm not telling you what to do, just pointing out that, if money is tight, staying home and working your butt off to hold a good party is probably your best bet for a great birthday.


He knows what I meant by that. Our house is only like 1200 square foot, with a tiny backyard. When I say there's no room, I mean there's no room! When we've had birthday parties in the past, it's cramped if there's more than 10 people in the house at once, let alone finding a place for the kids to sleep. But yes, we could have a blast with a few boys, just not a bunch. I'm not above a good water balloon fight or a nerf gun war! 

Last night I was talking with my son and I asked him what he wanted for his birthday. He replied, "For you and Daddy to get back together. Forever." That really hurt.  I just told him, "I used to wish the same thing, honey, but sometimes you just can't make people change." And then he said, "Okay, I want some wrestlers then." I guess my answer was satisfactory? Haha.


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## turnera

Ah, that makes sense.

What about a park? One year we took all of DD20's friends to a city park where we rented out one of the overhead areas, and just barbecued and let the kids play.

Sorry if I seem pushy. Just trying to help you find ways to save money.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Ah, that makes sense.
> 
> What about a park? One year we took all of DD20's friends to a city park where we rented out one of the overhead areas, and just barbecued and let the kids play.
> 
> Sorry if I seem pushy. Just trying to help you find ways to save money.


Yes, a park is something we've done quite a few times. Just that it's June in Florida, so then grandparents and such won't brave the heat. There is a state park with a pool though, just a little bit of a drive for his school friends. I definitely need to save money, so we might go that route. 

I do appreciate it, I don't think you pushy at all! I appreciate any advice I can get! Just that if H doesn't come, I'm not really the barbecue type so we'll have to do subs. We will figure it out. I don't have a problem just going to a place and splitting the cost 50/50 for a place that does everything, that way no responsibilities are shared, you know? At this point I'm going for easy and as cheap as I can get. 

So many things to think about, as life has changed a LOT. I'm just glad my son is being super patient about it all. He is a real sweetheart and I want him to have a good birthday in spite of it all.


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## Jellybeans

Lonely, did your attorney send him the paperwork agreement yet???


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Lonely, did your attorney send him the paperwork agreement yet???


No, I'm getting rather frustrated actually. I'm going to leave her another message today. This Thursday will be 2 weeks since I met with her. I've heard nothing from her. I need to get this ball rolling. I really want to be divorced and done with it all by the time I go back to school in August.


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## Jellybeans

2 weeks = too long. 

Call her today and tell her it's imperative she call you back, that you hired her because she def sounded like she would get the job done for you. 

Most attorneys do drag their butts. So annoying.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> 2 weeks = too long.
> 
> Call her today and tell her it's imperative she call you back, that you hired her because she def sounded like she would get the job done for you.
> 
> Most attorneys do drag their butts. So annoying.


Okay. Just left ANOTHER message saying I had an email not responded to and I would like a phone call this afternoon. 

I also found out last night while switching my auto debit account for my car insurance that he lied about that whole thing. They said that it was still set to come out of our joint account, still had my address, and nothing had been separated. So they did that and I gave them his address so they could bill him. I don't get the lies. :scratchhead:

I feel like I'm getting somewhere with getting this all straightened out. Enough so that I'm closing our joint account today.


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## ClipClop

Good lawyers do NOT drag their butts. However, from a business perspective, this case is low on the list. I'm sure she has far more demanding and time sensitive cases. And if LBL is as passive with her as she has shown us she can be, that reinforces the image of low pri.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

ClipClop said:


> Good lawyers do NOT drag their butts. However, from a business perspective, this case is low on the list. I'm sure she has far more demanding and time sensitive cases. And if LBL is as passive with her as she has shown us she can be, that reinforces the image of low pri.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She did say they had a TON of cases. It was some crazy number of uncontested divorces and court appearances and things. But she said she hoped to have it ready by the end of last week, and now it's early the following week. I would think it should be soon. 

And passive would be sitting around waiting for him to file for divorce. I wouldn't describe myself as passive. I went that way for way too long. I'm standing up for myself now. She knows I'm in a hurry as well, I made it clear that I needed the ball rolling soon. I also said that in my email because now I'm not getting any money from him.


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## LonelyNLost

He read the email while he had the kids tonight since I told him I had sent it. Don't think he's going to respond with an email. He came inside and got comfy, lol. Petting the cats, sitting on the couch, asking for a glass of water, offering to do anything I need done. He went out and mowed the lawn. Asked what else he could do. Weird. 

He said he'd give me $250 per paycheck. He'll be in for a shock when he realizes it will be closer to $440 per check. But he was cordial and smiling and stuff. And get this...he always wore the same chain with this cross on it, I bought both for him. Well, the cross has been replaced. Because of course, you can't wear a cross when you're committing adultery, lol. It's been replaced with a key. One of those cheesy keys, that go to a heart with a lock on it. So I guess he has the key to her heart. Make me barf right now.

I was reading in another thread about adding a morality clause to the divorce settlement. What are your views on this? I was thinking something like...
-No introducing the children to a significant other until the divorce has been final for 6 months, and even then you must have been dating continuously for at least 3 months.
-No overnight visits with significant other while the children are under the same roof for 2 years following the divorce, unless remarriage occurs before then. 

What do you think? Toss it? Leave it? Alter it? I know I'm held to it as well, and I'd probably go longer than 3 months before I introduced them to someone. But I know they don't need to be sleeping under the same roof as a potential stepparent until at least 2 years after the divorce. They need the stability. And I wouldn't want to have a guy sleep over, that sets a bad example. But I don't want to trap myself into not being able to live with someone before marriage, you know? Just some things to think about.


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## anx

> he always wore the same chain with this cross on it, I bought both for him. Well, the cross has been replaced. Because of course, you can't wear a cross when you're committing adultery, lol.


 I loled


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## ClipClop

Did he have a scar where it burned into his hellbound flesh?

If you can get a morality clause, I say go for it.
Mm
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

ClipClop said:


> Did he have a scar where it burned into his hellbound flesh?
> 
> If you can get a morality clause, I say go for it.
> Mm
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He obviously shows poor judgement with kids and poor impulse control with 'her' so sure, try.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Haha, yeah I amuse myself sometimes. I'm able to see the irony and laugh at it.  

So, here is his response...

_There is/was some level of concern as to where the money had been spent as every single paycheck since I moved out of the house was direct deposited into the joint checking account. My concern was the fact that so many bills that were in my name were left unpaid for 2 consecutive months. Um, everything is in your name. Only bill not paid for more than one month was YOUR student loans. Hmmm, food or cheating hubby's student loan...I CHOOSE FOOD! I do not know if I am exaggerating the amounts but I figure my checks were around $950 deposited and of that I spent at most $250 of those checks over the course of 2 weeks. The past due bills on my end added up quickly and I am working diligently to get those caught up. Diligently? He only paid one month of student loans and NO other bills?! I did not have my last paycheck deposited because I felt it was apparent that my bills were not nor should they be a priority for you to pay and that is why they had been let go. As per our discussion this evening, I should have my bills current and caught up hopefully with this next paycheck, however, it may take 2 checks for me to be completely caught up and current with everything because once the past due bills are caught up the new bills will be due. I also agreed to work with you for son's birthday and am more than willing to pay for half of his birthday party. I will be giving you a check every other week in the amount of $250 for child support which I will drop off to you on payday Fridays. I will make every effort to make that first payment on June 10th, however, I may not be able to make a full $250 payment until June 24th. If my calculations are correct, 5 paychecks have been direct deposited into the joint checking account since I left with the first check that went into my own account being May 13th. You have received, at a minimum, 60-70% of every one of those checks up until this point so I do need you to work with me for the next couple checks so that I can get caught up on past due bills on my end. I appreciate you being understanding and cordial and your willingness to work with me. I will make the child support payments to you on time beginning, at the latest, June 24th. I will do what I can up until that point to help with the kids. Thank you for paying the last car insurance payment and allowing me to pay you as I was unable to set up the insurance policy in my own name, and thank you for calling car insurance and giving them my information and getting that started for me, I will handle the rest this Thursday.

As for the visitation schedule with the kids, I am fine with either option, whichever one is easiest and most convenient for you. We did discuss it this evening and option #1 seemed to be the best and least disruptive to the kids current schedule.
-You have the weekend of 5/28-5/29 being the start where I pick them up Saturday and you pick them up Sunday evening, however, I would like to have that full weekend if possible and bring them to school on Monday.
-The weekend after, 6/4-6/5, I know that is your weekend but you have things with friend's wedding, so I will gladly take them Saturday 6/4 if you can drop them off at my work at 5pm and you can pick them up Sunday as early as you would like since it is your weekend.
-The weekend of 6/11-6/12 is my scheduled weekend, however, I will have them all of Father's day weekend so I am fine with picking them up Saturday at 6pm and again you can pick them up as early as you would like that Sunday since I will have them all of Father's day weekend and that is your scheduled weekend. We can split the weekend after that if 
you would like since you lose a weekend because of Father's day weekend them being with me and then the weekend after is my weekend as well.
-It is confusing when writing it out, I just know that due to Father's day weekend and friend's wedding falling on a weekend that is your scheduled weekend, you lose that weekend with the kids so I am more than willing to work something out the weekend after where you have 
them all day Saturday until I get off work and then you can pick them up Sunday afternoon if you would like. After that we will be back on schedule.

Just let me know what you think either via email or call me or just let me know in person next time I pick them up from the house.

-Philandering Husband :rofl: _


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Haha, yeah I amuse myself sometimes. I'm able to see the irony and laugh at it.
> 
> So, here is his response...
> 
> _There is/was some level of concern as to where the money had been spent as every single paycheck since I moved out of the house was direct deposited into the joint checking account. My concern was the fact that so many bills that were in my name were left unpaid for 2 consecutive months. Um, everything is in your name. Only bill not paid for more than one month was YOUR student loans. Hmmm, food or cheating hubby's student loan...I CHOOSE FOOD! I do not know if I am exaggerating the amounts but I figure my checks were around $950 deposited and of that I spent at most $250 of those checks over the course of 2 weeks. The past due bills on my end added up quickly and I am working diligently to get those caught up. Diligently? He only paid one month of student loans and NO other bills?! I did not have my last paycheck deposited because I felt it was apparent that my bills were not nor should they be a priority for you to pay and that is why they had been let go. As per our discussion this evening, I should have my bills current and caught up hopefully with this next paycheck, however, it may take 2 checks for me to be completely caught up and current with everything because once the past due bills are caught up the new bills will be due. I also agreed to work with you for son's birthday and am more than willing to pay for half of his birthday party. I will be giving you a check every other week in the amount of $250 for child support which I will drop off to you on payday Fridays. I will make every effort to make that first payment on June 10th, however, I may not be able to make a full $250 payment until June 24th. If my calculations are correct, 5 paychecks have been direct deposited into the joint checking account since I left with the first check that went into my own account being May 13th. You have received, at a minimum, 60-70% of every one of those checks up until this point so I do need you to work with me for the next couple checks so that I can get caught up on past due bills on my end. I appreciate you being understanding and cordial and your willingness to work with me. I will make the child support payments to you on time beginning, at the latest, June 24th. I will do what I can up until that point to help with the kids. Thank you for paying the last car insurance payment and allowing me to pay you as I was unable to set up the insurance policy in my own name, and thank you for calling car insurance and giving them my information and getting that started for me, I will handle the rest this Thursday.
> 
> As for the visitation schedule with the kids, I am fine with either option, whichever one is easiest and most convenient for you. We did discuss it this evening and option #1 seemed to be the best and least disruptive to the kids current schedule.
> -You have the weekend of 5/28-5/29 being the start where I pick them up Saturday and you pick them up Sunday evening, however, I would like to have that full weekend if possible and bring them to school on Monday.
> -The weekend after, 6/4-6/5, I know that is your weekend but you have things with friend's wedding, so I will gladly take them Saturday 6/4 if you can drop them off at my work at 5pm and you can pick them up Sunday as early as you would like since it is your weekend.
> -The weekend of 6/11-6/12 is my scheduled weekend, however, I will have them all of Father's day weekend so I am fine with picking them up Saturday at 6pm and again you can pick them up as early as you would like that Sunday since I will have them all of Father's day weekend and that is your scheduled weekend. We can split the weekend after that if
> you would like since you lose a weekend because of Father's day weekend them being with me and then the weekend after is my weekend as well.
> -It is confusing when writing it out, I just know that due to Father's day weekend and friend's wedding falling on a weekend that is your scheduled weekend, you lose that weekend with the kids so I am more than willing to work something out the weekend after where you have
> them all day Saturday until I get off work and then you can pick them up Sunday afternoon if you would like. After that we will be back on schedule.
> 
> Just let me know what you think either via email or call me or just let me know in person next time I pick them up from the house.
> 
> -Philandering Husband :rofl: _


What a ****.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

golfergirl said:


> What a ****.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would say while you were decent enough to show where the money you spent went, maybe he can show you how 3 pay chques are needed to pay 2 months student loans? Is that all he paid during marriage? Big education! Wow
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> I would say while you were decent enough to show where the money you spent went, maybe he can show you how 3 pay chques are needed to pay 2 months student loans? Is that all he paid during marriage? Big education! Wow
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh believe me, the reply to this email will include the exact amount he spent on himself per paycheck. It will also detail the bills that went unpaid. His student loans are about $230 a month. I didn't pay them for March or April. His Zales card, didn't pay that for April or May. His credit card hasn't been paid on in 6 months (his choice). The other credit card, I just didn't pay April (May wasn't due yet). Everything else I've taken care of, or was my responsibility as well. SO he's vastly exaggerated that. And I didn't even correct him on the child support amount, he can have that shock when he gets the paperwork from the attorney, if she ever gets back to me! Ugh. 

I think he's failing to realize that it isn't about HIM. This is about the kids and the bills we accumulated together. That's great that you left your check in, but don't make it sound like you were being all noble and giving me more than fair share. I was paying all the bills!


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## turnera

IDK. It sounds like he's being fairly decent about financial issues. Does he exaggerate or misunderstand? Sure. Most people who don't pay the bills do have a hard time grasping how quickly the money disappears. DH is really good about asking me WTH I did with my paycheck, because in his mind, any bill under $500 is just chump change. But chump change adds up to a whole paycheck. Your husband probably never considered how tight money is or how fast it's spent on bills. Now that you're paying two households, he's learning.

And he could have been a real jerk in his reply about you not paying his bills, but he did include 'nor should they' in his response.

You'll all be better off if you can handle this amicably.


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## golfergirl

turnera said:


> IDK. It sounds like he's being fairly decent about financial issues. Does he exaggerate or misunderstand? Sure. Most people who don't pay the bills do have a hard time grasping how quickly the money disappears. DH is really good about asking me WTH I did with my paycheck, because in his mind, any bill under $500 is just chump change. But chump change adds up to a whole paycheck. Your husband probably never considered how tight money is or how fast it's spent on bills. Now that you're paying two households, he's learning.
> 
> And he could have been a real jerk in his reply about you not paying his bills, but he did include 'nor should they' in his response.
> 
> You'll all be better off if you can handle this amicably.


But that doesn't mean roll over. 230 times 2 plus his credit card shouldn't add up to 2700 bucks minus what he agreed to pay her. While I agree don't go in guns blazing, doesn't mean his stance is law - un-negotiated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Where did I say roll over? I said act with dignity.


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## LonelyNLost

I completely agree, turnera. This has been an issue in our marriage for some time. I'm the one that handles the finances, he's loose with money. I'm the one that has to call him up and tell him to take it easy on the daily trips to Taco Bell because the money is almost gone and I need groceries, etc. The bearer of bad news. The noose around the neck. 

He is being amicable, and I want that as well. There's no reason to be nasty, it doesn't accomplish anything. I did notice how he put that in there, because he probably got to thinking about it and is realizing that I wasn't being unreasonable. He is also trying to look "pretty" in paper and on email so that he looks good in court. All it is right now is pretty words. It does all add up really quick, that's something he has a hard time seeing. Like if bills are due, and he goes and scans through them and none of the major ones are due, he thinks we don't have much due. But all the little ones add up to more than a big one! 

And golfergirl, it doesn't add up. You are right about that. Something else is going on. He also said something about being up at 8am on Thursdays (his day off) because he's been running around every week. Not sure if he's seeing an attorney, arranging for an apartment, or what. I laughed at him when he said that. LIke he has so many errands to run. Wtf-ever. Haha. The way he laid it out was $80 to me for car ins, $100 to his parents, $70 for gas, $70 for fundraiser, $35 for lunch money, $230 for student loans, $55 for Zales, $60 for storage, and then he said "other stuff". But he claims to be broke. So broke that last Friday daughter puked in the car on my way to buy a gift for a bridal shower, and I needed to go to a Things Remembered. I was stuck. So I called him and asked if he'd pick the gift up at the mall by him and bring it to work in the morning (he works by the house) and I'd repay him, and he said he had NO MONEY. And last night he said he had no money to get the kids ice cream or anything, even a drink. So I really don't know what's going on. He also asked if I had the cable switched to my name since it was late. 

I will work on outlining what he was past due on and what I paid, as well as money he personally spent out of each of his paychecks. I got this. He wants hard numbers, I got them. And hopefully he sees how little things add up. And how stupid it was of him to take our escrow overage check and use it for a new tattoo. Jerk.


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## LonelyNLost

Oh and the attorney emailed me back and said she'd add the morality clause and she hopes to get me the paperwork soon, but she's been in on a big case this week.


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## Jellybeans

And when does she anticipate the paperwork will be ready? WTF is taking so long???? 

Re: "Philandering Husband" (I laughed at that, btw  ), you could either negotiate that price up a little more...say $300 or agree and still make NO MENTION of yoru attorney, mmmkay???

Keep it a secret.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> And when does she anticipate the paperwork will be ready? WTF is taking so long????
> 
> Re: "Philandering Husband" (I laughed at that, btw  ), you could either negotiate that price up a little more...say $300 or agree and still make NO MENTION of yoru attorney, mmmkay???
> 
> Keep it a secret.


She just said soon. I need to write her back and ask for a date. I do remember her telling me that she had a ton of cases to work on. 

So, do I reply to him and say I think $300 is a little closer to what we need, since that would cover daycare? Or just ignore that or maybe say I will take whatever you are willing to give me at this time. I will make no mention of an attorney, but I wonder if he's working on something. Hmmm.


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## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> She just said soon. I need to write her back and ask for a date. I do remember her telling me that she had a ton of cases to work on.
> 
> So, do I reply to him and say I think $300 is a little closer to what we need, since that would cover daycare? Or just ignore that or maybe say I will take whatever you are willing to give me at this time. I will make no mention of an attorney, but I wonder if he's working on something. Hmmm.


I worry that if you give a specific amount that he could use it against you in court to say a lower sum was acceptable to you then, so it's more than fair now. I'm not sure if it would be relevant, but it's something to look into. In either case you should certainly let him know that the current offer isn't enough, but you'll take what he's willing to give so the family budget doesn't fall very far behind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Do NOT offer up specific amounts. In fact, don't talk at ALL about it. Let the lawyer handle that.


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## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> I worry that if you give a specific amount that he could use it against you in court to say a lower sum was acceptable to you then, so it's more than fair now. I'm not sure if it would be relevant, but it's something to look into. In either case you should certainly let him know that the current offer isn't enough, but you'll take what he's willing to give so the family budget doesn't fall very far behind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, definitely my concern. I don't want to offer up any amounts. In person I just sort of nodded, didn't comment on the amount at all. I actually probably looked away, which if he wasn't such a goob he would have realized my body language meant something. I guess I will reply to the email and say that I'll take whatever he's willing to give me at this time because I was having trouble making ends meet. 



turnera said:


> Do NOT offer up specific amounts. In fact, don't talk at ALL about it. Let the lawyer handle that.


I think it would be okay to just acknowledge that he's said he can give me money, but then say it won't be enough but I'll take what I can get. Right?


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## turnera

Don't say you'll take what you can get. Don't discuss money AT ALL, now that you have a lawyer.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Don't say you'll take what you can get. Don't discuss money AT ALL, now that you have a lawyer.


Okay, deal.  


So I find myself in a weird place today. I teach 3rd grade, and in my state it's a retention year if students fail the state mandated tests. My son is also in 3rd grade. The scores came in this morning, and I'm so proud of my son. He got the highest score on both the reading and the math, but the reading score was PERFECT! I kind of want to tell H, but I don't know. He doesn't understand that our son can't know his score yet but I'm so flipping proud of him! I just told him he did really well but I can't tell him his score. What do you guys think? I also need to get ahold of him today to have him book the place for the birthday party. He said he'd come if it were just us and son's friends, no family members of my friends.


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## turnera

What is your goal? Are you definitely giving up on the marriage, ready to move forward? Or are you still holding out hope to reconcile?


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> What is your goal? Are you definitely giving up on the marriage, ready to move forward? Or are you still holding out hope to reconcile?


My goal is to move forward with my dignity and hopefully have an amicable relationship with H for the sake of the kids. I would not be interested in reconciling, I've let go and given up. I don't think I could be comfortable in this marriage ever again. Two times the cheater speaks of too much disrespect and the trust is irreparable. I'm moving on. 

That's why I wonder what the parameters are? Should I share the good news about our son? Or does he miss out and just have to wait like all the other parents out there since I'm privy to the information due to my position? Or maybe even just wait to find out from our son? If we were married I'd jump to tell him. Now I don't want any contact with him unless it's business, you know?


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## WhereAmI

LonelyNLost said:


> My goal is to move forward with my dignity and hopefully have an amicable relationship with H for the sake of the kids. I would not be interested in reconciling, I've let go and given up. I don't think I could be comfortable in this marriage ever again. Two times the cheater speaks of too much disrespect and the trust is irreparable. I'm moving on.
> 
> That's why I wonder what the parameters are? Should I share the good news about our son? Or does he miss out and just have to wait like all the other parents out there since I'm privy to the information due to my position? Or maybe even just wait to find out from our son? If we were married I'd jump to tell him. Now I don't want any contact with him unless it's business, you know?


I'd let your son tell him. Hopefully it will be a nice bonding moment.


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## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> I'd let your son tell him. Hopefully it will be a nice bonding moment.


That's what I'm thinking. I can't even tell my son how well he did and it's killing me! So I just shared the news with my mom. I guess I'll let our son tell him. You ditch your family, you don't get to share in the good stuff!


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## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> You ditch your family, you don't get to share in the good stuff!


Ok, now, here's where I'm going to use my gentle 2x4.

If you are DONE with him and have no desire for reconciliation, then your #1 goal MUST be the best potential outcome for your child. Since a complete happy family would be the #1 way to achieve that, and that isn't possible, then you must make #2 the best option possible.

That means that you do what a mother does - put aside her own personal feelings, to ensure that her son gets his parents parenting together - as together as possible while separate.

You say you want nothing to do with STBX and care only about your son, yet in practically the same breath you say 'you don't get to share in the good stuff.'

WHO does that attitude benefit?

Certainly not your son.

You are still punishing your STBX, and your son is the one losing out.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Ok, now, here's where I'm going to use my gentle 2x4.
> 
> If you are DONE with him and have no desire for reconciliation, then your #1 goal MUST be the best potential outcome for your child. Since a complete happy family would be the #1 way to achieve that, and that isn't possible, then you must make #2 the best option possible.
> 
> That means that you do what a mother does - put aside her own personal feelings, to ensure that her son gets his parents parenting together - as together as possible while separate.
> 
> You say you want nothing to do with STBX and care only about your son, yet in practically the same breath you say 'you don't get to share in the good stuff.'
> 
> WHO does that attitude benefit?
> 
> Certainly not your son.
> 
> You are still punishing your STBX, and your son is the one losing out.


By not sharing in the good stuff, I mean having the benefit of access to information regarding how he did before the rest of the students' parents do. Scores were just released this morning at 6am, the only parents that know are the ones whose children failed. He'll find out about our son doing well, but it won't be me calling him with privy information. So, I'll let my son tell him or show him his score report when he gets it just like all the other parents. 

I'm not keeping anything from him, nor is my son losing out on anything. I'm not punishing, I'm just not rewarding, which is exactly what I meant by missing out on the good stuff. He's not being punished with having the normal stuff taken away. He just misses out on the benefit of finding out this exciting news before anyone else due to me being privy to the info. Understand? 

He seems to think he's being punished because I don't share all of our conversations with him. I, in a polite way, told H the other night that his relationship with his son is damaged, and I hope he can spend some quality time with him this summer and get him to open up. I told him he doesn't see it because our son tries to be happy and fun around him with what little time they have together, and he got an attitude and said, "Well no one tells me anything" to which I replied, "He's opening up to me because he trusts me and I'm the one closest to him. I'm not going to damage that trust by repeating things to you. If he wanted you to know he would tell you. It's up to you to cultivate that relationship with your kids."


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## turnera

How old is your son? Isn't he in elementary school?


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> How old is your son? Isn't he in elementary school?


Yep, and when he gets the score report it will come home with his report card which I will share with his dad.


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## turnera

I'm not talking about his report card. I'm talking about your attitude that keeps you from parenting as a team. Your son isn't old enough to brave this battlefield on his own and figure out when and where and how to talk to each of you to keep the stress away. That's your job.


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## KathyGriffinFan

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, deal.
> 
> 
> So I find myself in a weird place today. I teach 3rd grade, and in my state it's a retention year if students fail the state mandated tests. My son is also in 3rd grade. The scores came in this morning, and I'm so proud of my son. He got the highest score on both the reading and the math, but the reading score was PERFECT! I kind of want to tell H, but I don't know. He doesn't understand that our son can't know his score yet but I'm so flipping proud of him! I just told him he did really well but I can't tell him his score. What do you guys think? *I also need to get ahold of him today to have him book the place for the birthday party. He said he'd come if it were just us and son's friends, no family members of my friends.*


Ha ha, he's the one who cheated, yet he's the one issuing guidelines on the functions that he will/will not attend. He needs to grow up.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> I'm not talking about his report card. I'm talking about your attitude that keeps you from parenting as a team. Your son isn't old enough to brave this battlefield on his own and figure out when and where and how to talk to each of you to keep the stress away. That's your job.


No, I think you've misunderstood. I don't have an attitude that keeps us from coparenting. Not at all. I don't expect my son to brave a battlefield in the least. I'm not sending him to relay messages or anything of the sort. He feels comfortable talking to me, but not dad. That isn't something I can fix. Only he can fix that by stepping up and being a parent and talking to his son. My son knows that he can talk to me whenever and however he wants, we have a very healthy relationship. He actually got upset with me because he didn't like being told what to do so he wrote me a letter saying he was trying not to be mad but he couldn't help it. And he had his sister bring it to me, lol. It's the relationship between him and his father that is at stake, and that has nothing to do with me. I don't hinder it at all, but I'm not going to break my son's trust and relay everything my son says. 





KathyGriffinFan said:


> Ha ha, he's the one who cheated, yet he's the one issuing guidelines on the functions that he will/will not attend. He needs to grow up.


I know. He sat there the other night and was like, "I'll chip in for a party for him, but I won't attend. I refuse to be the black sheep in the corner." And I replied, "That's your fault. You're the one who alienated yourself." I told him my best friend was coming and he said "that's fine." He's going to have to get over it at some point, but the truth is a hard thing to face.


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## ClipClop

Is he still adamant that he wants the D?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

ClipClop said:


> Is he still adamant that he wants the D?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He actually hasn't mentioned one word about divorce, mediation, lawyers, or anything since we had that blow up on April 20th. But yeah it's a given that he's done. He's the kind of guy who doesn't go back on his decisions. Plus he's walking around with a freaking key to her heart on his necklace, haha. 

I am adamant that I want the divorce!


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## KathyGriffinFan

LonelyNLost said:


> He actually hasn't mentioned one word about divorce, mediation, lawyers, or anything since we had that blow up on April 20th. But yeah it's a given that he's done. He's* the kind of guy who doesn't go back on his decisions. Plus he's walking around with a freaking key to her heart on his necklace, haha.*
> 
> I am adamant that I want the divorce!


What a high school kinda thing to do. I did that my freshman year too. Maybe he dedicates songs on the radio to the Vegas skank or sends candy grams to her classroom. :rofl:


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## LonelyNLost

KathyGriffinFan said:


> What a high school kinda thing to do. I did that my freshman year too. Maybe he dedicates songs on the radio to the Vegas skank or sends candy grams to her classroom. :rofl:


Haha, absolutely they are living in the past. Thing is, I would have bet a million dollars the old H would never do something so childish as to wear a key on his chain. He was even playing with it yesterday when he dropped the kids off. I was so tempted to say "Nice key, what happened to the cross? Was it burning a hole in your flesh from the sheer irony?" I didn't. 

He's being kind of weird with me. He's relaxed more around me and comfortable, joking, smiling, looking me in the eyes. Weird. I did end up telling him just that our son did really good on his state test and he wanted to know how well and I said he'll have to wait and see. Then I looked at my son and said, "At least you got mommy's brains" and then H laughed and then playfully put up his middle finger. WTH? Now he can joke? Maybe it makes HIM feel better. It is a lot easier when he acts like a jerk, though.


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## tamara24

Turnera said it best. Share any info that you know about the kids with him. He is still the dad and that doesn't change. His consequences for being a a--,is that he will miss moments. If your child was sick, you do not hesitate calling him to let him know or to ask for help. The same thinking should apply to the test scores that is great news! Keep him in the loop, you still want him to be a good dad.above ALL else!

Also, I have heard spouses that are divorcing find that their spouses start being nicer so you give in to their requests. That might mean he wants you to lower and just accept his support offers and /or he wants somethin. You need to stick with your plan if you are determined not to reconcile. Be polite, but not a doormat. No agreeing with any money ideas,you know what is coming!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop

Why can't you ask about the cross? You two are still married however much he likes to pretend you are not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> Turnera said it best. Share any info that you know about the kids with him. He is still the dad and that doesn't change. His consequences for being a a--,is that he will miss moments. If your child was sick, you do not hesitate calling him to let him know or to ask for help. The same thinking should apply to the test scores that is great news! Keep him in the loop, you still want him to be a good dad.above ALL else!
> 
> Also, I have heard spouses that are divorcing find that their spouses start being nicer so you give in to their requests. That might mean he wants you to lower and just accept his support offers and /or he wants somethin. You need to stick with your plan if you are determined not to reconcile. Be polite, but not a doormat. No agreeing with any money ideas,you know what is coming!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, I'm sharing info with him about the kids. Even after I called to tell him our daughter was sick and he replied, "what do you want me to do about it?" Jerk. But he'll find out HOW well son did when he sees the score report. And I'm not going to share the details of our conversations when my son decides to open up to me. My biggest thing is that I want our kids to be able to trust me.

I don't know what he's up to with being nice. He's crazy if he thinks that will butter me up for anything. Not after all the manipulation. I really do wonder if he's working on something of his own. 




ClipClop said:


> Why can't you ask about the cross? You two are still married however much he likes to pretend you are not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess I think it would just be petty, you know? And show that I care in the least. He knows how observant I am, and he was playing with it for goodness sake. He knows I saw the new charm. But I'm not giving him a reaction. I would love to sit and point and laugh though. :rofl:


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## tamara24

I am on the fence with this one. I guess if I was concerned my child was suffering from my break up with my husband. I would tell him everything so he knew exactly what was said. Yes, I get that your son trusts you but don't you want to relay that as a team? I get the fact son is having issues, but maybe if dad knew exactly what was going on and not say MOM TOLD ME. Maybe he could make son feel better about things. I think leaving things out will cause even a bigger seperation in their relationship. Remember, you and dad broke up but you parent TOGETHER. Good or bad. Your a team. How would you feel if he left you out of the loop if this was reversed.

Not saying what your doing is wrong but I am playing devils advocate. I would still want to know anything going on in my kid's life. This is hard enough without trying to patch stuff when your not sure what is broken? 

Did he reply to your email?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

tamara24 said:


> I am on the fence with this one. I guess if I was concerned my child was suffering from my break up with my husband. I would tell him everything so he knew exactly what was said. Yes, I get that your son trusts you but don't you want to relay that as a team? I get the fact son is having issues, but maybe if dad knew exactly what was going on and not say MOM TOLD ME. Maybe he could make son feel better about things. I think leaving things out will cause even a bigger seperation in their relationship. Remember, you and dad broke up but you parent TOGETHER. Good or bad. Your a team. How would you feel if he left you out of the loop if this was reversed.
> 
> Not saying what your doing is wrong but I am playing devils advocate. I would still want to know anything going on in my kid's life. This is hard enough without trying to patch stuff when your not sure what is broken?
> 
> Did he reply to your email?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I've told him that he cries at night, and he acts out by not listening or throwing a tantrum when I tell him to do something. But I'm not going into details about the anger he feels for Dad over the OW. I emailed him and told him his son overheard the girlfriend bit, to which he replied that he'd talk to him, but he never did. He's missing out on opportunities to talk, KWIM? So I have told him he's having a hard time, but I haven't told him my son said that if Daddy tried to introduce him to the OW he would punch his lights out and things like that. I feel that's how my son is venting, and he'd be betrayed if H asked him about it. 

And yes, he replied, it's a couple pages back. All nicey saying he'd give me $250 per paycheck starting 6/24. 

Now today he's texting me about son's birthday gift and if it was okay if he got him some game. I reply and tell him just FYI I can't pay the mortgage for May and he goes on a tirade about where has the money gone, blah blah blah. So I just told him, "I offered to sit down and show you where it's gone and you declined. It's called a bank statment...go look at it." I don't get him.


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## LonelyNLost

He's so hot and cold it's weird. One minute acts indifferent and the next he's asking me if I'm feeling better. I don't get him. Texting me crap about money one minute, telling me he's going to go buy our son shoes next time he gets paid. WTF? 

I made some realizations this weekend. I'm moving onto the next stage of healing I think. I was cleaning the house and I decided to empty out my nightstand of all the cards and letters he's ever written me. I found a three page letter he had written me about 6 months after he had his first EA. It goes on and on about how he fears that I will leave HIM one day and that I'll never trust him again and how he can't live with the fact that he hurt the one person in the world that meant everything to him. I was crying over it and my best friend came over and read it with me. She pointed out a lot of ironies, but I was feeling like I never appreciated him enough and this was my fault. But then we got to looking at all the cards from the past year. He writes heartfelt stuff about how he'll always love me, etc. but he ends each of them with some form of "Thanks for putting up with me even though I'm far from perfect." The guilt has been eating him alive since he messed up four years ago. This isn't about me. This is about him. He's never forgiven himself AND he has a problem with life's stressors. So along comes Vegas Skank who offers a connection to his past, there's no hurt there on her face, and it's all fantasy. Here in reality, he has to look at the face that he hurt. I truly think he believes he doesn't deserve me. I feel like this is about him living with his mistakes, and he can't do it any longer. It's freeing to have come to that realization.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying this me time. I like this life. My kids and I are happy and we'll be fine. Money is a big stressor, but otherwise, we're fine. I went today to order my daughter a bed and the salesman was funny and we had a good conversation and he proceeded to tell me how gorgeous I am. I feel better about myself now than I did while I was married. Everything happens for a reason, right?


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## DelinquentGurl

Yes, everything happens for a reason
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I found a three page letter he had written me about 6 months after he had his first EA. It goes on and on about how he fears that I will leave HIM one day and that I'll never trust him again and how he can't live with the fact that he hurt the one person in the world that meant everything to him.
> 
> But then we got to looking at all the cards from the past year. He writes heartfelt stuff about how he'll always love me, etc. but he ends each of them with some form of "Thanks for putting up with me even though I'm far from perfect." The guilt has been eating him alive since he messed up four years ago. This isn't about me. This is about him. He's never forgiven himself AND he has a problem with life's stressors.


That makes perfect sense.

You are handling all of this really well, Lonely. I am glad to hear you are moving on and not chasing after him. You have come a long way in a short amount of time. Keep it up.

Any word on your lawyer?


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> That makes perfect sense.
> 
> You are handling all of this really well, Lonely. I am glad to hear you are moving on and not chasing after him. You have come a long way in a short amount of time. Keep it up.
> 
> Any word on your lawyer?


Thanks, Jelly, that means a lot. I actually ran into an old coworker today and she said, "Not sure what's going on in your life, but I know it's major, and I'm liking your positive status updates." I told her I was divorcing and she said she thought that might be the case, and it was interesting to watch me go through the phases and emotions, but that I seemed to be in a great place and I looked great. I think you're truly getting somewhere when you are able to give other people advice. And like you said, when I'm able to look at my old posts and want to slap myself, lol. 

As for the lawyer, just sent her another email asking for a timeline of when I can expect the papers. Tomorrow will be 3 weeks since I sat down with her. I need some answers! I told her he wasn't paying me, and asked if there's anything I can do in the meantime. Hopefully she will respond. I'm getting anxious. Not sure what H is up to. Last night he came in and sat on the couch texting and looked really grumpy. It was weird.


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## turnera

Ask her if she's got another lawyer to refer you to, since she seems to be too busy.


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## DelinquentGurl

Lonely,

I threw out all the letters and cards my H wrote me over the years. I had to, it hurt too much to keep them around.
Even though it made me sad to do it, it also felt liberating, so to speak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> Ask her if she's got another lawyer to refer you to, since she seems to be too busy.


Agreed. I can't remember if you paid her but if you did, I'd ask for my $ back and go through a new lawyer. That is almost a month. That's ridiculous. 

My lawyer sent out a letter of representation to ex-h's lawyer the next morning after I saw him re: my divorce.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Agreed. I can't remember if you paid her but if you did, I'd ask for my $ back and go through a new lawyer. That is almost a month. That's ridiculous.
> 
> My lawyer sent out a letter of representation to ex-h's lawyer the next morning after I saw him re: my divorce.


Today is 3 weeks. I will call. I paid her $900, so half of the total fee. I guess I will call and tell them to leave her a message stating that I would like to seek out another attorney since she is too busy to work on my draft. I'm getting frustrated. She didn't respond to the email I sent 2 days ago. If this is any indication of how the whole thing is going to go, I'm not down with that.

I just boxed up the cards and the wedding stuff. I don't know what to do with it, but I think it would be sad to throw it away. Do you think the kids would want to read it one day? I really just don't know. What about my wedding dress, and rings, and pictures? I bet you he threw all the cards away I gave him. Tonight my son came home and said, "I heard something I wasn't supposed to hear" and I asked what. He said that H took him fishing this morning and then he was on the phone when they were done, (would've been about noon our time, 9am her time), and he said, "Oh that's sweet. I love you too" then continued to have a conversation before hanging it up and saying, "love you" again. Puke. Son said he heard it was a girl and it wasn't grandma. I don't think he needs to be doing this around the kids. He's really making himself look like a schmuck to his own son.


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Today is 3 weeks. I will call. I paid her $900, so half of the total fee. I guess I will call and tell them to leave her a message stating that I would like to seek out another attorney since she is too busy to work on my draft. I'm getting frustrated. She didn't respond to the email I sent 2 days ago. If this is any indication of how the whole thing is going to go, I'm not down with that.
> 
> I just boxed up the cards and the wedding stuff. I don't know what to do with it, but I think it would be sad to throw it away. Do you think the kids would want to read it one day? I really just don't know. What about my wedding dress, and rings, and pictures? I bet you he threw all the cards away I gave him. Tonight my son came home and said, "I heard something I wasn't supposed to hear" and I asked what. He said that H took him fishing this morning and then he was on the phone when they were done, (would've been about noon our time, 9am her time), and he said, "Oh that's sweet. I love you too" then continued to have a conversation before hanging it up and saying, "love you" again. Puke. Son said he heard it was a girl and it wasn't grandma. I don't think he needs to be doing this around the kids. He's really making himself look like a schmuck to his own son.


Poor kid - 9 year old smart enough to know what his dad doesn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have you told him the truth?


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Poor kid - 9 year old smart enough to know what his dad doesn't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know, it really is sad that my son knows this is wrong, yet H doesn't. And I don't even know if it's worth my time to tell him our son is hearing things and questioning me about them. Since last time he got mad about it and acted like he was going to speak to him and he didn't. He gets angry at my son in the same way he'd get angry at me for interfering with his little fantasy world.



turnera said:


> Have you told him the truth?


My son? Remember when he overheard his grandmother ask his father about his girlfriend? That's pretty much when he asked if daddy had a girlfriend. I said, "Yes, it seems that way." He then asked who she was and I said, "A girl that daddy dated in high school. She lives in Las Vegas." Then my son started thinking about it and the fact that his father had just gone out there in January. I walked away and came back and he looked really puzzled and said he was mad. I told him, "Remember how mommy and daddy never fought, and then all of a sudden mommy was upset and crying and we were arguing? Well, we we were arguing because we didn't agree about something. The thing we didn't agree about was that daddy wanted to be friends with her, and mommy didn't think he should be." He sat for half a millisecond and said, "Mommy, she's not just a friend." I said, "It sure looks that way." He seemed okay, I was getting them ready for bed, he was following me around like he wanted to talk about it, I left it up to him. I asked him if he understood what was happening. He said he did. I asked him, and he said, "Daddy doesn't want to be with you, he wants to be with her." That was a lot to hear, I just told him I didn't intend for him to find out until he was older, but that it was very wrong, grown ups make bad choices sometimes. It all started to hit him, we weren't getting back together...daddy has a girlfriend and mommy's talking about how she can't be lied to and treated badly any more. I stressed that his father loves him and always will, but that he can't be my husband anymore. He cried that night, but is okay now. He's fine when he's with his dad, has never mentioned it. But I know he's lost a lot of respect for him. This is something I can't repair. That's up to him as the father.


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## LonelyNLost

Lawyer just sent me a bunch of documents. Holy cow, I'm overwhelmed. She sent me:

Joint Waiver of Mandatory Disclosure
Petition for Dissolution of Marriage and Other Relief
Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act Affidavit
Notice of Social Security Number
Answer and Waiver
Marital Settlement Agreement - THE MEAT AND POTATOES!

For the most part I agree with everything, she left out the sleepover part of the morality clause, and went overboard with the existing morality clause. She put no introducing romantic interests for a year after divorce is final, and then after that they can't meet the kids until exclusively dating for 6 months. I think I want to cut each of those in half. 

I need to go over everything with a fine-toothed comb and make sure it's what I want.


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## Jellybeans

Glad to hear your lawyer finally did something. 

Glad to hear you told your son the truth. Remember, from now on, you're the role model. If he asks again you can say, "Yes, daddy has a girlfriend" and if he questiosn more you can tell him to ask dad. 

Keep your head up, woman! Send those papers off stat!!!!!!


----------



## Crankshaw

LonelyNLost said:


> I need to go over everything with a fine-toothed comb and make sure it's what I want.


too right you do, and when you have done that you want to get your lawyers input before making things final.


----------



## KathyGriffinFan

LonelyNLost said:


> Lawyer just sent me a bunch of documents. Holy cow, I'm overwhelmed. She sent me:
> 
> Joint Waiver of Mandatory Disclosure
> Petition for Dissolution of Marriage and Other Relief
> Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act Affidavit
> Notice of Social Security Number
> Answer and Waiver
> Marital Settlement Agreement - THE MEAT AND POTATOES!
> 
> For the most part I agree with everything, she left out the sleepover part of the morality clause, and went overboard with the existing morality clause. She put no introducing romantic interests for a year after divorce is final, and then after that they can't meet the kids until exclusively dating for 6 months. I think I want to cut each of those in half.
> 
> I need to go over everything with a fine-toothed comb and make sure it's what I want.


Personally, I'd be fine with the 6 months aspect but that's just me, lol!


----------



## Oak

Hey Lonely! I know this is a rough point but relief is coming. Proud to see you getting these details taken care of and staying focused.


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## LonelyNLost

Oak said:


> Hey Lonely! I know this is a rough point but relief is coming. Proud to see you getting these details taken care of and staying focused.


Thanks! The draft of the divorce settlement is sitting on my table. I need to make an appointment with the lawyer to go over some things so she can send it off to him. Kind of nerve-racking.

Tonight was our son's 9th birthday. Had a party at a local party place, and he attended and paid for half. He had agreed to come as long as my family or friends didn't come because he didn't want to be the "black sheep" and I said "Whatever, our son wants us both there and you're the one who alienated yourself." He shows up and then his dad comes walking in and I'm thinking WTF? But his dad barely said hello to our son, then beelined it straight for me and gave me a big hug, but didn't say a word. It was very strange to me. Him and I haven't seen or talked to each other since Christmas probably. 

H is being super nice, which is weird, since last night he flipped out on me because I called and said I wouldn't be back at the house by 7:30 when he was supposed to drop them off. He was offering to take the gifts to my car, and all sorts of weirdness. He texted on his phone the whole time, and sat off to the side. I sat with a few of the moms of the partygoers, who all happened to be friends/coworkers of mine. And my best friend, and our guy neighbor that's been H's friend for 8 years. H slowly scooted his chair over till he was at our table. The guy friend was telling me how great I look and how happy I seemed. Friend and I were rehashing fun details from Saturday night's bachelorette party (fun times!). H didn't say too much. 

I'm not sure what he's up to. Hasn't mentioned the divorce or anything. I don't know what he's spending his money on since he hasn't given me any and he hasn't paid any of his bills because they are still calling me. So he's either working on the divorce on his own, or stashing money away for an apartment with skankzilla. Who knows? I can't imagine that they are all lovey dovey and she isn't bothering him about divorcing me. So I need to get a move on. Would be a huge waste if he was doing the same thing I'm doing with a lawyer. I want to be first! haha.


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## turnera

My guess is his Dad gave him what for.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> My guess is his Dad gave him what for.


I wouldn't go that far. His parents are the free spirited, "Do whatever makes you happy" type. More specifically his dad is the "Sh!t or get off the pot" type. But no doubt that his parents have to feel bad for me. His mom just won't show her face because I showed her what's what with that email I sent that made her scurry into a corner and cover her face. But the dad and I haven't communicated at all. I can imagine he's ashamed. 

See, H's real mother cheated on his father when H was only 6 months old. She left. Father ended up with custody and the married his now-mother when he was about 3. She's raised him as her own (she never had kids). So more than any of them, I think this has got to hit his dad hard. He wants his son to be happy, yes, but he also knows how much his son loved me. He knows the issues his son has, and he knows this will be a mistake he'll have to live with. I hope it really hit home to see how great I looked and how happy I am. Because I really am.


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## Jellybeans

When are you going to get those papers to your lawyer, Lonely???? It's been almost a month right since you first retained her??? he may very well file and hit you with his papers and youwill have to respond..to him.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> When are you going to get those papers to your lawyer, Lonely???? It's been almost a month right since you first retained her??? he may very well file and hit you with his papers and youwill have to respond..to him.


I have the papers, just waiting on an appointment to meet with her to make the last changes to the draft and then we'll send them off. I am a little concerned about him filing first. But the biggest thing is that I need him to pay me some money. My last paycheck is only going to go so far here and I don't get paid again until beginning of September! 

I left another message again this morning. I'd go to her office, but it's a large group with many offices, and no one is staffed at this one on a regular basis. I will call again this afternoon if I don't hear back.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> I am a little concerned about him filing first.


I would be a LOT concerned about him filing first.
Because if he does and stipulates what he will pay you, YOU have to respond to him and it could potentially go back and forth a long time and a lot of $$$ spent because of lawyers. I woulda been at the lawyers the very day after she gave me the paperwork in order to draft the corrected copy and send it on its way. 

If he files before you do, I know you're going to kick yourself.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> But the biggest thing is that I need him to pay me some money.


I'm sure you know that that's exactly WHY you have to get the papers filed, right? You getting them filed FORCES him to get you the money he owes you, his family. You can't rely on his good will any more.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I would be a LOT concerned about him filing first.
> Because if he does and stipulates what he will pay you, YOU have to respond to him and it could potentially go back and forth a long time and a lot of $$$ spent because of lawyers. I woulda been at the lawyers the very day after she gave me the paperwork in order to draft the corrected copy and send it on its way.
> 
> If he files before you do, I know you're going to kick yourself.


Not really. It's a court ordered formula, he can't just come up with an amount. But it IS advantageous to do it my way. For both of us. I can't really be at her office, it isn't a staffed office. They float. She's not in my town until next Wednesday so I made a phone appointment with her for tomorrow at 1:30pm. I've marked the changes that need to be made and I hope she'll get them done and sent out ASAP. 



turnera said:


> I'm sure you know that that's exactly WHY you have to get the papers filed, right? You getting them filed FORCES him to get you the money he owes you, his family. You can't rely on his good will any more.


He won't be forced to pay until the settlement is agreed upon. The money is exactly what is going to make him sh!t his pants.


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## LonelyNLost

Okay guys. I got the petition for dissolution of marriage notarized on Friday and I'm filling out my financial affidavit right now. I'm going to drive down to the lawyer's main office tomorrow and hand deliver both so we can get this going. 

He gave me $200 on Saturday. He says because that's all he could get out of the ATM or something. Not sure what he was planning on giving me. I recently bought our daughter a twin bed, and I asked him if he wanted the crib mattress and the crib to convert to a toddler bed for now since it's better than the pack n play. He said he has no room and that he might take the crib and put it in his storage. I said, "keep in mind she can't really sleep in that forever" and he said, "well I'm not going to live with my parents forever." Which I believe is his way of telling me he's moving out soon. So maybe that's what he's been doing with his money. I just have a hard time believe he's just sitting idle and Vegas Skank isn't giving him a hard time about divorcing me? I hope he gets the papers this week. That'll tell me a lot about how this is going to go down.


----------



## turnera

LonelyNLost said:


> I just have a hard time believe he's just sitting idle and Vegas Skank isn't giving him a hard time about divorcing me?


Does it really matter?


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Does it really matter?


No, just as in where his money has been spent. I was pretty convinced it was either on a lawyer, or saving for a place of his own. Seems to be a place of his own, probably so she can move here. But I just don't know what he's thinking as far as divorce. He knows nothing about what I'm doing.


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## turnera

What I mean is, don't waste your time thinking about him. The best revenge is to make a fabulous life for yourself that he's not invited to.


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> What I mean is, don't waste your time thinking about him. The best revenge is to make a fabulous life for yourself that he's not invited to.


You're right. "Sometimes the best revenge is to smile, move on, and do Nothing." I'm really thinking about it less and less. But I'm out of school for the summer, which means less distractions, and so this divorce is my focus. I hate that! 

I'm really struggling with being indifferent. I feel like maybe I'm being TOO friendly with him. We are very cordial, but I feel like he's pushing that boundary into "friends" and I don't plan on ever having that sort of relationship with him. Like he calls and talks to me before talking to the kids or tells the kids to give me the phone back and will chit chat. We were speaking about the visitation arrangement since he's been flexible with me the past few weeks due to a friend's wedding festivities. I was asking if he wanted them an extra weekend and he was saying he didn't mind and that I probably was enjoying some adult time. But he said it in a way like he was insinuating something. Then he flipped it and made it sound like he was having the time of his life and he would make plans if I wanted the kids. I guess I just don't want to be too nice and have him walk all over me and/or feel okay about what he's done. But I'm not out to punish him either. He just doesn't deserve to have any part of me.


----------



## turnera

Summer is a great time to start new plans and new habits and new hobbies...

Absolutely no reason to chat with him. "WH, I have nothing to say to you. Here's kid."


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## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> What I mean is, don't waste your time thinking about him. The best revenge is to make a fabulous life for yourself that he's not invited to.


Absolutely! 

Good luck at your attorney's this week


----------



## BIP

Hey LnL,
I haven't logged on in a while. Sounds like you have REALLY turned a corner. I'm happy for you. Get the papers filed and move on. How are your kids????


----------



## marrid4life

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. I'm trying. Kept it cool, then he called and like MADE me talk tonight. So now I'm a mess. We talked for 2 and 1/2 hours. Mostly not good. I don't get why he's such a pessimist. It hurts. He's afraid that we work on things and they get better and then we end up back here. I just kept trying to reiterate that if you expect that to happen, then that's what happens. If you expect the tension and that there will be no positive interactions, that's what happens. He doesn't get it. I just kept telling him that if he loved me, he'd go get help. He needs meds, he is seriously depressed. He doesn't think we can recover from this and wants to just call it quits. But then in another breath he says that hopefully we can eventually reconnect.  I don't get it. So, I'm taking care of myself and my kids. All I can do!


Holy similar story!, i am in the same exact boat just its the opposite sex. Im having problems with the 180 bit, i guess my wife figured it all out by now for the 4th times and counting. 

I wish i would have seen these posts earlier on when i was going thru my first problems, or just my second time or is it my thrid i forgot counting now sorry. :scratchhead:


----------



## LonelyNLost

marrid4life said:


> Holy similar story!, i am in the same exact boat just its the opposite sex. Im having problems with the 180 bit, i guess my wife figured it all out by now for the 4th times and counting.
> 
> I wish i would have seen these posts earlier on when i was going thru my first problems, or just my second time or is it my thrid i forgot counting now sorry. :scratchhead:


I'm sorry to hear this. Did you read my whole thread though? Because it was all just a cover, red flags for the infidelity that was happening. Hope that's not what's going on in your case. I'm getting divorced. But it's okay, I'm going to be alright.


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## LonelyNLost

Hi everyone! Just an update. The papers are on the way to the attorney, she'll have to update some of the debts and then hopefully he will get the proposed settlement next week. That financial affidavit was a pain in the arse! We've been fairly cordial, though I've struggled with indifference. That's a hard line to walk. I think he's realizing he's lost control though. He doesn't like that I'm not available to respond to him and he doesn't know where I am or what I'm doing. I also think a lot of times he takes things out on me when he is arguing with her. I could be wrong, they could have the perfect relationship, but I doubt it. I got an email from mylife.com that said a 33 year old female from Las Vegas named (insert vegas skank's name) was searching for me. Creeping me on the internet! 

He picked up the kids from a neighbor last Friday (the 17th) and kept them until Sunday (Father's Day) when I picked them up at 4:30 and then drove an hour and a half to meet my Dad who kept them for 4 days this week because I had a class to attend. I told him I'd try to remind them to call him after I talked to the kids each night. Well, they called Monday, but I guess not the other days. So I get a text Wednesday night saying that he hadn't heard from them and to tell them to call him. But it was late. He also tried to call and I ignored. Then he tried to call again last night. This is the text exchange. (I know, I know, but we're all allowed slipups.)

M: What’s up? I can’t talk right now.

H: Well I texted last night to check on the kids since I haven’t heard from them in 2 days and you didn’t respond or answer my call. Just wanted to see how they were. 

M: Are your fingers broken? They are at my dads. Call them. 

H: I thought you were going to ask them to call me until you got over there. I just tried to call your mom in hopes I could talk to them.

M: All you had to do was text me two days ago and ask which house they were at instead of sitting around. I reminded them to call, but they’re having fun and barely talked to me.

H: I am going to get Tyler a phone so that I can at least get a hold of him and tell him I love him and talk to him.

M: No, I’m not cool with that. He told me all about your plan to give him your phone so you could get an android phone. There are better things to spend the money on, like food. You need to get your priorities straight.

H: It’s not so I can get a smart phone first of all, it’s so that I can get a hold of him and not go 2 days with no contact. I have had no idea where they even were.

M: You know how to get a hold of him, there hasn’t been a problem. You’re creating a problem to serve yourself. You didn’t seem to care about going two days without talking to them when your mistress was in town.

H: Again, I tried to get in touch with you last night and you never responded. Hopefully things don’t change now that (friend’s) wedding is over.

M: What is that supposed to mean? What does her wedding have to do with anything? I’m trying to figure out how to make my car payment and pay all these bills with half of the money coming in that I used to have.

H: WOW!! I gave you money my last paycheck, I get paid tomorrow and will give you money from that. You should have gotten all your summer checks, no daycare.

M: You’ve given me a whole $200. I paid the mortgage and some other bills, but the money is gone. You need to stop being selfish and take care of your responsibilities, which are your kids.

H: It’s funny how “nice” you were for the last 3 weeks and now it’s like this again. I thought we were at least being cordial.

M: I’m fine. Just stressed the fvck out trying to figure out how to survive while you’re off in Candyland having a good time. I know you’re not paying your bills with your checks because they’ve been calling me. 

H: I am paying my bills, but until they are completely caught up they are going to keep calling. I haven’t wasted any money on anything tedious at all.

M: Spending $150 on a smart phone is pretty frivolous. You seem so self-entitled it’s ridiculous. How about putting your kids first. I’m frustrated with your choices and priorities while I’m trying to figure out how to pay necessities.

H: In candyland, really, I am stressed out too and have told you now that I got all the past dues caught up enough to be almost level I would give you money every paycheck from here on out. I get paid tomorrow, if you want to get your money tomorrow let me know and I will go to the bank in the morning.

M: I can imagine how stressful it must be to live with your parents and have your meals cooked for you and just go to work and play with your kids every few days.

H: The phone is 50 and I was going to get one too so I could give Tyler a phone because I have had no clue where they were the last 2 days.

M: No this has been your plan for a while. And its not gonna fly. I need money asap I’m trying to figure out what to sell so we can live. Please just deposit money in joint account.

H: OK. I’m not gonna argue about my life or my stresses, you’re right, my life is peachy. Before the kids left you said one thing so I thought that was the way it was going to be. If that wasn’t the plan you should have told me to call both parents to track them down and talk to them and I would have.

M: I can’t do anything from 180 miles away! Pick up the phone. I said I’d try to remind them. I have no way of knowing if they called you or not. It’s not that complicated. I’m not stupid either. I know it doesn’t add up. But it is whatever. You said you would do whatever so we are provided for yet it’s the last of your concerns.

H: I will transfer 300 into your account tomorrow. What do I need to do to talk to the kids. Some kind of communication involving them would be appreciated.

M: I said call my dad. XXX-XXX-XXXX

H: Why is it that you were so “friendly” for the last few weeks, so forthcoming with the kids, and now you are jumping my ****?

M: I’m peachy. I’m frustrated with your choices and priorities and the way you approach me with sh!t. The way you’re nice one minute and a prick the next. You’re not on drugs are you?

H: I have given you what I have had but I cannot give you 70% of my checks. I have not been frivolous with any of my money.

M: You’ve given me 200. I can’t live on that. My checks are gone.

H: What am I a prick about. I simply texted you tonight to inquire about the kids. I wasn’t rude at all. You were the one that was really nice the last 3 weeks.

M: You have had some Jekyll and Hyde moments. I’m being cordial for the kids not because you deserve it or will ever by my friend or because what you’ve done is acceptable.

H: And since the kids left after last weekend you didn’t even respond to my text last night asking about them.

M: Sorry I was busy. Didn’t see it and couldn’t talk on my phone.

H: OK that’s fine, you were just extra cordial and forthcoming with them for the weekends leading up to the wedding and now it’s back to hatred I guess.

M: Hatred would mean I give a fvck. I’ve always been and always will be forthcoming. You come at me I’m coming back. You know me better than that. I’m not a doormat. 

H: I did all I could so you could do all (friend’s) wedding stuff and it seemed like we actually got along a little bit, but I know now it wasn’t what I thought.

M: I appreciate your flexibility. I am and will continue to be decent around you. Just thought I would get a break from seeing or communicating with you but guess not.

H: How did I come at you??? I was not rude in my text last night, today, or my voicemail, at all. I have tried to be helpful in any way possible. I don’t expect you to appreciate anything, but don’t make it sound like I have done nothing at all to help. I have done all I could. I thought we were at least making a little improvement. You can have a permanent break from any communication with me if that is what you need. I will pick the kids up in the driveway from here on out. No need to have any voice or text communication. Business only. Let me know the arrangement with the kids for the next time I will have them.

M: That’s not what the kids need to see. I’m setting an example for them and showing them people are people separate from their choices. Just wish you’d decide how to act.

H: I will deposit child support payment into your account tomorrow. I cannot transfer deposit because I need a paper trail to prove I have been giving you child support payments. I will get a money order and deposit it at some point tomorrow. I really was not trying to get into an argument tonight with you, I simply was checking on the kids. You jumped on me. I get the hatred you have, it will always be that way, I read the last 3 weeks the wrong way, my mistake. 

M: You can’t coparent if you don’t communicate. Stop insinuating I was fake to get something. It’s like you have this vision of me as a monster to make it okay in your head.

H: I actually enjoyed having civil conversations with you, coming into your house, joking with you, I was totally cool the last 3 weeks thinking we had finally progressed to a level of civility with each other. Now I realize it was not real at all and I understand that this is the way it is going to be. Then explain your hatred right now. I’m not trying to make anything alright in my head, I was simply trying to ask about the kids and I thought we were on a speaking level with each other. It just appeared different than it actually is. Please email me with the next time I will have the kids so I can plan accordingly. I will call them via your phone while they are out of town. I’m sorry if you feel attacked, I thought I approached you in a cordial manner, did not say anything mean or rude at all, and thought I had been very flexible and helpful to you. Communication can cease from here on out. It can be totally business only. I apologize for attempting to get in touch with you and reading things incorrect.

**I stopped responding. He’s using communicating with me as leverage? Puhlease. I could care less. And insinuating that I was only nice to him so that he'd work with me on visitation. I'm going to act the same exact way I have been around him. Then this afternoon he calls and I have the kids answer and then he wants to talk to me and says he is transferring money and doesn’t know how. I was indifferent. Then I get this text, and I didn't respond.

H: I just transferred $300 into joint account. I will call the kids later tonight. Have a great week and let me know when you guys will be back and what’s up with the kids.


----------



## turnera

What I heard from him over and over is that he LIKED you being NICE to him. And he freaked out when you stopped, and he kept bringing it up, hoping you would catch on and discuss it with him. So he could have it back.

Apparently, you being nice to him is VERY important to him. Don't know why. May help you to find out.


----------



## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> What I heard from him over and over is that he LIKED you being NICE to him. And he freaked out when you stopped, and he kept bringing it up, hoping you would catch on and discuss it with him. So he could have it back.
> 
> Apparently, you being nice to him is VERY important to him. Don't know why. May help you to find out.


That's what I got from it as well. He wanted me to say, "I'm going to be nice to you, please don't stop being my friend." He even like threatens to not communicate with me at all. It's weird. How would I find out why this is important? Couldn't it just be to help ease the guilt? Because he misses me? I really do get the feeling, when he's sitting in the house with me, that he misses just talking like that about whatever. I mean, I was his best friend, lover, and partner for 14 years. That just doesn't disappear!


----------



## marrid4life

LonelyNLost said:


> I'm sorry to hear this. Did you read my whole thread though? Because it was all just a cover, red flags for the infidelity that was happening. Hope that's not what's going on in your case. I'm getting divorced. But it's okay, I'm going to be alright.


Yes same here agian, its been a trust issue because of a caught cheating and ever since has not just worked out and been used like a dirty doormat. So finally we had it all out of all places at a party (and i thought all parties were for fun) we are truly done but like you in the beginning i am having problems of truly letting go and not contacting her my wife, and the saddest part is she dosnt care a lick about me on all this.


----------



## LonelyNLost

marrid4life said:


> Yes same here agian, its been a trust issue because of a caught cheating and ever since has not just worked out and been used like a dirty doormat. So finally we had it all out of all places at a party (and i thought all parties were for fun) we are truly done but like you in the beginning i am having problems of truly letting go and not contacting her my wife, and the saddest part is she dosnt care a lick about me on all this.


Sorry to hear that. Love hurts. It's so hard to let go because it's more than just loving someone. It's all your hopes and dreams and your way of life. It gets better. Once you finally cut those strings and mourn the loss and begin to move forward, each day is a little easier. 

My stbx-H is back to being normal on the phone. It's so odd. I have hard times, like I am visiting family in my hometown, where H and I met. We went to breakfast and ran into the pastor that married us. He came up and it was the kids and I and my parents. He asked how many years it had been and I just sort of mumbled, "10", but that was hard. In moments like those I want to call him up and scream at him, but I don't. I realize that moving on is about finding peace within yourself. Not getting worked up over it on any level.


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## Jellybeans

You'll eventually get to apoint where you will tell people "We're not together anymore/we broke up/we divorced." I think when that happens, you have finally truly accepted it. 

Re: him and your being "nice"--again I think he likes it better when you're "nice" cause he doesn't feel as bad for cheating and walking out on you and his kids, his family. It assuages his guilt. 

When you are mean, it makes things uncomfortable for him and he sees the pain he's causead. 

Little boy.

When is your attorney sending the papers?


----------



## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> You'll eventually get to apoint where you will tell people "We're not together anymore/we broke up/we divorced." I think when that happens, you have finally truly accepted it.
> 
> Re: him and your being "nice"--again I think he likes it better when you're "nice" cause he doesn't feel as bad for cheating and walking out on you and his kids, his family. It assuages his guilt.
> 
> When you are mean, it makes things uncomfortable for him and he sees the pain he's causead.
> 
> Little boy.
> 
> When is your attorney sending the papers?


See, that's where I'm struggling. When someone asks, I can't JUST say, "We're getting divorced." I have to say, "he cheated on me with his high school sweetheart and ran off." So that's where I know the bitterness is still there. I don't deal with it on a daily basis, but I do feel like I want everyone to know what a piece of crap he is. Gotta let that go still! 

And you're 100% right about the guilt and being nice. He got worried that I wasn't being nice. I'm sure that will all be thrown out the window when he gets the paperwork. I have to call my attorney in a day or two and make sure she got it and made the changes. I'm on pins and needles and all anxious wondering how he's going to react. EEK. I'm out of town, but I'll be back this weekend.


----------



## Jellybeans

Well if you want to broadcast to the world that he cheated on you and is POS, then go for it. LOL. It's your life so you're allowed to talk about it any way you want. 

I personally don't ever go into details with anyone who asks, but you'd be surprised--most people don't ask. To me it's a very private thing and not anyone's business why we divorced at all. I like to guard that. Even if I have some stories to tell. 

Yeah it sounds like the papers are way overdue. You first filed them like 2 months ago right? That is a long time. He will be pissed when he gets them but that's par for the course. It's to be epxected. Nobody is ever happy when they get served any type of divorce/separation papework. Just like nobody is ever happy when their husband abandons their family to run off w/ some skank.

He can be pissed off all he wants--this was his decision. 

Don't sweat it.


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## LonelyNLost

So I found myself able to not talk about it as much lately, so I must be doing better! 

I didn't file any papers really, just started the process with the lawyer trying to settle outside of court before filing. 

And just FYI, he's back to being friendly. He even came on Saturday to pick the kids up and I walk out of the bedroom and he has this big grin on his face. I'm like, "What?" and he says, "Someone got some sun." I say, "Yeah, but I'm not burnt so why are you looking at me like that?" and he replies, "You just have some tan lines going on." REALLY?! Wipe the drool, jerk.

He also asked me for his social security card. Not really sure why. I said I would get around to looking for it. But I'm trying to figure out what he would need that for. SO he texted me AGAIN and I said, "I'll look. What do you need it so bad for?" and he waited awhile to respond and then sent something about it being an important document and he thought it was lost and that's why he needs his birth certificate, too. Then I picked up the kids from him yesterday and he brings it up again and say she needs it because he got a job offer, and he can't fill out the application without a social security card. Sounds fishy. Like he just told two different stories. And that's not necessarily true about the job. He is SOOO bluffing.


----------



## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> So I found myself able to not talk about it as much lately, so I must be doing better!
> 
> I didn't file any papers really, just started the process with the lawyer trying to settle outside of court before filing.
> 
> And just FYI, he's back to being friendly. He even came on Saturday to pick the kids up and I walk out of the bedroom and he has this big grin on his face. I'm like, "What?" and he says, "Someone got some sun." I say, "Yeah, but I'm not burnt so why are you looking at me like that?" and he replies, "You just have some tan lines going on." REALLY?! Wipe the drool, jerk.
> 
> He also asked me for his social security card. Not really sure why. I said I would get around to looking for it. But I'm trying to figure out what he would need that for. SO he texted me AGAIN and I said, "I'll look. What do you need it so bad for?" and he waited awhile to respond and then sent something about it being an important document and he thought it was lost and that's why he needs his birth certificate, too. Then I picked up the kids from him yesterday and he brings it up again and say she needs it because he got a job offer, and he can't fill out the application without a social security card. Sounds fishy. Like he just told two different stories. And that's not necessarily true about the job. He is SOOO bluffing.


Could there be a job offer in Vegas? Your lawyer really p!sses me off. What a slowpoke!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop

Fire your lawyer.

Re documents, they are important. Is he getting married? Getting a passport? Emmigrating to another country? Dealing with a new insurance co? Who knows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Could there be a job offer in Vegas? Your lawyer really p!sses me off. What a slowpoke!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think so. I really don't think he'd up and leave the kids. He has more rooting him here than she does there. And I'm driving down tomorrow to see if I can meet with the lawyer. She did tell me they had like 600 uncontested divorces in that office. Holy cow!



ClipClop said:


> Fire your lawyer.
> 
> Re documents, they are important. Is he getting married? Getting a passport? Emmigrating to another country? Dealing with a new insurance co? Who knows.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can't get married, has to get divorced first. I don't think you need a SS card to get divorced, do you?! I was thinking passport, maybe they're going on a cruise or something. It's funny that he had to lie, he could have just told me it was none of my business.


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## marrid4life

LonelyNLost said:


> Sorry to hear that. Love hurts. It's so hard to let go because it's more than just loving someone. It's all your hopes and dreams and your way of life. It gets better. Once you finally cut those strings and mourn the loss and begin to move forward, each day is a little easier.
> 
> My stbx-H is back to being normal on the phone. It's so odd. I have hard times, like I am visiting family in my hometown, where H and I met. We went to breakfast and ran into the pastor that married us. He came up and it was the kids and I and my parents. He asked how many years it had been and I just sort of mumbled, "10", but that was hard. In moments like those I want to call him up and scream at him, but I don't. I realize that moving on is about finding peace within yourself. Not getting worked up over it on any level.


thanks LNL i completely agree with you on not just about love, its way deeper then that. I will try to find peace within myself, those strings are really in a tight knot.


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## Jellybeans

My first thought was he needs a passport but the SSN card is throwing me. He definitely needs it for something important.

Your lawyer might be the worst lawyer ever, Lonely. I cannot understand at all what is taking so long. Seems you started this nearly 2 months ago and she hasn't sent him anything? My lawyer sent my ex paperwork the following morning after me meeting w/ him. I'd totally get a new lawyer.


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> My first thought was he needs a passport but the SSN card is throwing me. He definitely needs it for something important.
> 
> Your lawyer might be the worst lawyer ever, Lonely. I cannot understand at all what is taking so long. Seems you started this nearly 2 months ago and she hasn't sent him anything? My lawyer sent my ex paperwork the following morning after me meeting w/ him. I'd totally get a new lawyer.


Update Please! Has H been served?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyGriffinFan

Any updates? Hope all is well!!


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## Oak

Lonely is doing very well. Everything is moving forward and papers were served this week. She is going to give you a better review once the process is further along and her stbx has responded, but she says hello.


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> Update Please! Has H been served?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





KathyGriffinFan said:


> Any updates? Hope all is well!!


Thanks, ladies. So mid-week he would have received the paperwork from my attorney. It states that he has two weeks to respond and if we don't hear from him we file contested. I thought for sure I would hear something, but nothing yet. He's acting a little less chummy but not mean or anything. So we will see. I'm thinking he got it all on Wednesday because he called and said he wasn't taking the kids on Thurs which is his day off. I'm guessing he probably went to consult with an attorney. I will give him the weekend and see if he says anything by Monday morning when he drops the kids off. If not, I'm shooting off an email. I'm praying for things to go as smoothly as possible. I know it's just beginning, but I'm going to be hopeful for a peaceful resolution.

I actually went and sold my wedding band along with a bunch of other jewelry he had given me. I got $620 and one hell of a lot of closure. It felt awesome! And I needed the money. I'm enjoying my summer with my kids and my family. I can truly say I'm in an amazingly incredible place. Moving forward without looking back. They "why?" questions don't come nearly as often, and I wake up each day with a smile on my face. What a journey! I am happy with who I am am. 100%. I think I'm an incredible person with a lot to offer the world. I don't need affirmation from another person to know that's true. And I don't need another person at all. It's a very freeing feeling. We're going to be alright. Better than alright. 

I have a great support network, you guys have been invaluable, and I look forward to the future. Stbx is my past, and that's where he belongs. My friendships have proven so valuable and I see what is important in life now. Yes, love is something I want in the future, but for now I'm content. My eyes have been opened to a lot of things, and I'm enjoying waking up each day to find what each day holds for me, good or bad. 

And yeah, you guys were right. I look back and I kind of feel really sad for where I was and for what I couldn't see. But you know what? It's a part of the process, part of what brought me to where I am today. I wouldn't change anything if I were able to go back and do so. I can move on in life and know that I was the best wife I knew how to be, I held onto every straw I could grasp, and I tried all I could. It sucks to admit that my marriage failed. But I'm a better person for it. Afterall, what they say is true... Everything happens for a reason!  

Oh, and Oak is awesome! :awink:


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## DelinquentGurl

Good for you Lonely. It's good to see you in a much better place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hesnothappy

Great news Lonely, we got this! Praying that he allows it to go easy for all of you.


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## rome2012

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, ladies. So mid-week he would have received the paperwork from my attorney. It states that he has two weeks to respond and if we don't hear from him we file contested. I thought for sure I would hear something, but nothing yet. He's acting a little less chummy but not mean or anything. So we will see. I'm thinking he got it all on Wednesday because he called and said he wasn't taking the kids on Thurs which is his day off. I'm guessing he probably went to consult with an attorney. I will give him the weekend and see if he says anything by Monday morning when he drops the kids off. If not, I'm shooting off an email. I'm praying for things to go as smoothly as possible. I know it's just beginning, but I'm going to be hopeful for a peaceful resolution.
> 
> I actually went and sold my wedding band along with a bunch of other jewelry he had given me. I got $620 and one hell of a lot of closure. It felt awesome! And I needed the money. I'm enjoying my summer with my kids and my family. I can truly say I'm in an amazingly incredible place. Moving forward without looking back. They "why?" questions don't come nearly as often, and I wake up each day with a smile on my face. What a journey! I am happy with who I am am. 100%. I think I'm an incredible person with a lot to offer the world. I don't need affirmation from another person to know that's true. And I don't need another person at all. It's a very freeing feeling. We're going to be alright. Better than alright.
> 
> I have a great support network, you guys have been invaluable, and I look forward to the future. Stbx is my past, and that's where he belongs. My friendships have proven so valuable and I see what is important in life now. Yes, love is something I want in the future, but for now I'm content. My eyes have been opened to a lot of things, and I'm enjoying waking up each day to find what each day holds for me, good or bad.
> 
> And yeah, you guys were right. I look back and I kind of feel really sad for where I was and for what I couldn't see. But you know what? It's a part of the process, part of what brought me to where I am today. I wouldn't change anything if I were able to go back and do so. I can move on in life and know that I was the best wife I knew how to be, I held onto every straw I could grasp, and I tried all I could. It sucks to admit that my marriage failed. But I'm a better person for it. Afterall, what they say is true... Everything happens for a reason!
> 
> Oh, and Oak is awesome! :awink:


:ezpi_wink1: Love you, LNL !!!!!


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## Jellybeans

Glad to see you are doing well, Lonely  Hooray for the extra $620 and you sound awesome


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## LonelyNLost

DelinquentGurl said:


> Good for you Lonely. It's good to see you in a much better place.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, I truly feel blessed to be in such a happy place. Thinking back, I never thought I'd be so okay with it all. Must be the awesome support I got here and from family and friends! 



hesnothappy said:


> Great news Lonely, we got this! Praying that he allows it to go easy for all of you.


I'm praying too! Thanks so much. Still hasn't said anything, though, so not sure what he's thinking. 



rome2012 said:


> :ezpi_wink1: Love you, LNL !!!!!


Love you too, girl! 



Jellybeans said:


> Glad to see you are doing well, Lonely  Hooray for the extra $620 and you sound awesome


Thanks, jelly. I am in a really great place. The money helped, too. Just not sure how I should proceed since he hasn't mentioned the papers and I really don't want to have to file contested. I think I'm going to email him and just ask if he got them and tell him I'd like to sit down and discuss when we had a chance. What do you think?


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## Jellybeans

Well, was he served? If he was, then he got them. 

He has a certain deadline to meet, right? So if he doesn't respond, proceed the same way your lawyer said would happen. 

If he doesn't sign, the judge will sign for him.


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## turnera

I kind of question your intent in asking for a meeting. You're not his friend any more, and it's not your place to smooth things over for him, if that's what you're thinking you should do. He's a grown up. Just do what your lawyer tells you to do.


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## 52flower

I agree. You should check with your lawyer before contacting him. In my state, if the spouse does not respond within the time allotted, you can file under "default". This means the spouse relinquished rights to be an equal part of the divorce process and the judge can sign off without his/her participation.


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## turnera

I just don't see any benefit to YOU for engaging with him. IMO, it's just your old reflexes kicking in. Gotta move past that, ok?


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## LonelyNLost

Well what was sent was a Marital Settlement Agreement, in order to settle things outside of court before the filing was done. So the divorce isn't actually filed, that happens in two weeks, the time frame we gave him in the letter. Nothing court sanctioned, so to speak, just my attorney letting him know my intent. He is not acknowledging to me that he got the papers, even though we know he has to have gotten them by now. 

What I want is for us to discuss and come to an agreement on things, like grown ups. We've been relating cordially, he's just withdrawn a bit since he got the paperwork. Not sure if it's buyer's remorse or what. Anyhow, if he doesn't acknowledge them or sign them and send them in, then we are at stalemate. If I go ahead and file then we are contested. That means I can't afford my attorney any longer as the rate plan I get becomes considerably more expensive. 

Just wish I knew what the hell he was thinking about it all. What does he agree with? What does he disagree with? I feel like I need to be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel. In order for the settlement agreement to be signed and entered into the courts and filed as an uncontested divorce, we have to agree. And we can't agree if we don't even communicate. Hmm. I hate this part. Want it over with!


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## ClipClop

You have a lawyer for a reason. You are doing the same thing now that you did before he left... trying to control a situation over which you have no control. If you want to deal with this like adults, control yourself and let him respond as he will in his own time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Clip is right. 

Wait til the time is up on his deadline and if he hasn't responded, proceed with doing what your lawyer stated in the even he doesn't get back to you about it. 

Hopefully he'll respond and not file divorce first.


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## golfergirl

Jellybeans said:


> Clip is right.
> 
> Wait til the time is up on his deadline and if he hasn't responded, proceed with doing what your lawyer stated in the even he doesn't get back to you about it.
> 
> Hopefully he'll respond and not file divorce first.


If you appear too eager, you lose all bargaining power. 
Let deadline pass at least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Wait, did you guys not read what I wrote? IF I LET IT PROCEED AS MY LAWYER SAID I CAN'T AFFORD HER. Then I'm up sh!t creek without a paddle. This is not me "Trying to control a situation I can't control" this is me trying to communicate with my stbx in order to come to an agreement. I will not let him know I'm in a hurry because I know I'd lose control. I'm actually going to be out of town from Wed-Mon, so it will be almost 2 weeks by the time we'd be able to talk. 

This is not me engaging him. This IS handling it like adults, coming up with an agreement so I can file. Our relationship is not hostile at all, it's very businesslike, if not him trying to engage me in friendly talk. Guess it's hard for you guys to truly see where I am and the fact that I've let go and wouldn't take him back for a million dollars doesn't come through a message board thread. But I see him more than enough and I hate it. 

I need to talk to him in order to come to an agreement. And in person makes it easier to bargain and agree on things without a 3rd party interfering. I do have a lawyer, but the lawyer isn't the one that's going to talk to him and get him to agree to things. The divorce needs to be agreed upon and everything worked out for it to be UNcontested. Now, if he files, he'd be filling it all out on his own, and I'm not sure how that'd work. But right now, communication is going to happen, and we can sit down and do it cordially on our own for free, or we can sit in a mediator and pay $250 an hour. Which would you choose?


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## anx

Lol, I like your new signature. It's crappy that things are so tight money wise and he waits for you to file and then again waits. I hope this works out for you.


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## KathyGriffinFan

I can't quite remember, but, was he giving you money? Has he continued to give you money? I seem to recall that he stopped direct depositing his paycheck into your joint account and said he needed to get caught up in his bills before he could give you a few hundred a month. Perhaps I'm mistaken.



> Guess it's hard for you guys to truly see where I am and the fact that I've let go and wouldn't take him back for a million dollars doesn't come through a message board thread.


I don't think that their responses indicate that they fail to see how you've progressed. It's simply that we all want to see you get the best out this crappy situation.


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## golfergirl

KathyGriffinFan said:


> I can't quite remember, but, was he giving you money? Has he continued to give you money? I seem to recall that he stopped direct depositing his paycheck into your joint account and said he needed to get caught up in his bills before he could give you a few hundred a month. Perhaps I'm mistaken.
> 
> 
> I don't think that their responses indicate that they fail to see how you've progressed. It's simply that we all want to see you get the best out this crappy situation.


Exactly! Remember he doesn't have the money to file contested either. If you 'bluff' by being cool, he thinks you begged borrowed or stole money to go ahead regardless. He wants this so he can carry forward with his idiot probably more than you want it to be free. He has a deadline - let HIM come to you regardless. If you approach him, you're too eager. Too eager loses your strength in your position. If 'contested' can you represent yourself? In cases like child support and splitting debt and assets, it's not like there's a lot of ways to go other than table amount for support and 50/50 for assets. Precident has been set for custody and doesn't sound like he's concerned about that anymore. I know you've come for - for God's sake - play it cool!
You waited out the 3 months it took this idiot lawyer to finally get to you, what's another few weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

*UPDATE...He called to discuss the paperwork from my attorney...*

Okay, so last night he called to have the conversation regarding the divorce. It was long, 2 1/2 hours, tried to keep it as unemotional as possible but got some jabs in and we argued about things not related to the divorce. Sort of a tamed version of the discussion we had back in April when we discussed that fact that we weren't going to be married before. 

Basically he was upset that I got lawyers involved and didn't tell him, and that this meant he had to get an attorney and it was going to be expensive and he didn't know how far I was going to take it. I think it scared him ****less because he felt attacked. As he should. But he also said he felt glad that I was moving things forward. He freaked the most about the morality clauses, tbh. Went on and on about how ridiculous they were, and basically admitted that Vegas Skank is moving here very soon and it's all squared away. I told him that my paperwork is a starting point and that we work from there to negotiate.

He did say he HAD to go to an attorney last Thursday which is why he skipped his visitation with the kids, in order to file a response. He at first made it sound like he retained an attorney for the process, but then admitted he only paid one $500 to file the response. He kept alluding to not understanding how I afforded the attorney or other things like road trips I've been taking. 

He is not okay with the child support as I knew he wouldn't be and said that his current visitation is unfair. He said he deserves more time with them, and even though he keeps them for 4 hours one night a week, it doesn't count unless they spend the night. (See he got poor legal advise when he went way back when. Because my attorney advised me of this and how it affects support.) He is also saying that the schedule we agreed upon in writing was only for the separation, not the long term. So I have yet to see the response, but apparently he is asking for two overnights during the week in addition to his every other weekend. He said no way can he afford the amount I want, but he doesn't want to screw me. He told his attorney he'd be willing to do 50/50 custody and pay me $500 a month spousal support even. I knew this would happen, and I don't exactly know how to even fight it. I tried telling him that if he doesn't pay me the larger amount, I can't afford to live here, and I'd have to move 3 hours away with my parents, and he'd end up paying the larger amount anyway. But he said I couldn't move from this county, and blah blah blah. He made it sound like he would fight this issue to the death. 

The financial stuff for him as far as splitting liabilities seems to be the least of the issues. Even went as far as to say that if he did everything as said in the agreement that he'd only have $200 a month to live on. I then informed him that if I did everything as he is suggesting I'd have a deficit of $1,800 per month BEFORE his child support. He scoffed at that. He really didn't want to take one of the equity loans, but sounds like I can use it as a bargaining chip. And when I mentioned bankruptcy he said he'd like me to look into it and share some info. We got into how part of his student loans were used for our house, and he tried to say the equity loan should be mine since I live in the house, but I told him that it consolidated prior debts of ours so not entirely true. He got petty with saying his grandmother's inheritance paid for our furniture and he left it here, but in his response he asked for a TV. I said, "Maybe your girlfriend has a nice TV." He wants the grill back and he said some other things. So can't wait to see that. 

I know I don't have to give into all his demands, but we will see. I did say several times, that I just wanted out of this, I had set a personal goal of Jan. 1st, he agreed, and I explained the process of divorce since he seemed clueless. He stayed civil even when I hit below the belt. I reiterated that he decided to cheat on his wife and leave and it was time to deal with the consequences. He denied denied denied everything, but refused to go much into it. So we ended by him saying that if we could sit down and try to work this out in a non-legal neutral setting we was willing to negotiate. Looks like I'll try to get in with my attorney early next week when I get back into town, and then I'll meet with him afterwards. Hoping we can come to an agreement, I let my attorney know the changes, and then she sends him another agreement. If he signs, we file. And he did agree to pay half the filing fee. I let him know that we were looking at 3 months at least from the time we file to the court date, and he argued about where we had to file, which is just ignorant. But it is whatever.

So now I know this is going to be a pain in the arse and not fun. But at least the ball is rolling. He definitely doesn't want it to go all legal and kept feeling me out to see if he needed to actually retain a lawyer. I told him we could both go with mine and he kept saying we could have went to a mediator and left lawyers out completely and I said that would have been dumb on my part. He acted like he's brought the issue of divorce up on many occasions and even insinuated that he'd asked for the kids on occasion and I didn't let him have them which is BS. I had to call him out a few times. He's mad because apparently when Skankzilla was creeping me on the internet she did goodle searches and found them both on cheaterville.com. Oops. He also said that they traced a call and message she got on her phone where someone disguised their voice and called her a homewrecker and a *****, and it came from my hometown at 3am. Uh, I assure you that wasn't me. I'd totally admit to that. 

Life's about to get a little more interesting. Sigh. So next week we'll know a lot more. I do feel like maybe in person just him and I we can hash some details out. We'll see. 




KathyGriffinFan said:


> I can't quite remember, but, was he giving you money? Has he continued to give you money? I seem to recall that he stopped direct depositing his paycheck into your joint account and said he needed to get caught up in his bills before he could give you a few hundred a month. Perhaps I'm mistaken.


I understand everyone is well meaning, but I did feel a little attacked for wanting to resolve the situation and felt like I was being accused of trying to see him or something. Yes, you are right about the money. He gave me money the first month out, then it stopped and he didn't give me any. Now he's given me about $1000 since May 1st. 



golfergirl said:


> Exactly! Remember he doesn't have the money to file contested either. If you 'bluff' by being cool, he thinks you begged borrowed or stole money to go ahead regardless. He wants this so he can carry forward with his idiot probably more than you want it to be free. He has a deadline - let HIM come to you regardless. If you approach him, you're too eager. Too eager loses your strength in your position. If 'contested' can you represent yourself? In cases like child support and splitting debt and assets, it's not like there's a lot of ways to go other than table amount for support and 50/50 for assets. Precident has been set for custody and doesn't sound like he's concerned about that anymore. I know you've come for - for God's sake - play it cool!
> You waited out the 3 months it took this idiot lawyer to finally get to you, what's another few weeks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He thinks I had to have borrowed money. He said as much, and I got the exact feel you've mentioned. He came to me. I feel like a precedent has been set with visitation, but how can I fight him. I know he'd have to find a way to afford a lawyer because he'd fight me tooth and nail for the custody and support to be different. He knows it is based on the number of overnights. Assets and liabilities don't seem to be a problem. I guess we'll see what my lawyer says re the support and custody.


----------



## turnera

Just let your lawyer handle it. Please trust me when I say that this will be the best money you ever spend. You're talking about setting up what your kids will be living on for the rest of their childhood. Let the lawyer get you what you need. HE left, HE can figure out how to support HIS kids.


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## golfergirl

turnera said:


> Just let your lawyer handle it. Please trust me when I say that this will be the best money you ever spend. You're talking about setting up what your kids will be living on for the rest of their childhood. Let the lawyer get you what you need. HE left, HE can figure out how to support HIS kids.


Funny he's fine with visitation as is, even cancelling a few, until money is the issue. You don't need to cancel a full visit to meet a lawyer, you come late or do what others do and hire a sitter for the 1 hour meeting.
Makes no sense - fine with visitation for separation - he SCREWED himself.
Re: morality clause. Nothing in there you wouldn't follow yourself - so what's the problem? Oh ya, he cheated on you months before the end of the marriage, so your time line makes sense for you and any other person whose marriage just ended a few months ago.
Notice all his complaints go back to money? He can be all sweet when it is buttering you up. 1000 since May 1st? What a cheapskate. Do you get back pay when settled (back to date of separation?
He did you the biggest favor ever!
Oh re: tracing number to hometown? Whatever, he's bs'ing you. You trace to exact number. Doesn't he realize you're over it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> He's mad because apparently when Skankzilla was creeping me on the internet she did goodle searches and found them both on cheaterville.com. Oops. .


:rofl: Good one!



LonelyNLost said:


> I understand everyone is well meaning, but I did feel a little attacked for wanting to resolve the situation and felt like I was being accused of trying to see him or something.


Nobody here was attacking you. You know we've got your back 100%.

Most divorces are ugly. It's rare to see one where all parties agreeon everything and all is peachy keen. 

Doesn't work that way.

He's already trolling to find out information from you (mediation, lawyers, how much $, should he get a lawyer, he won't pay waht you stipulated). DO NOT WAFFLE. DO NOT show him your cards.

If he gets out of control or upset, tell him "I will not talk to you about this right now until you ahve calmed down" and hang up.

Any disagreement you have tell him "I will review that with my lawyer and get back to you."

I'm with everyone else who said to let your lawyer handle it. He is already trying to waaaay reduce things you've asked for an negotiate himself out of this hole he's created. Too bad, so sad.


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## vivea

Jelly very helpful response since I will be having similar convo with my stbx soon. *two thumbs up*


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## Jellybeans

^ Hey Viv. Hope you are well. yep--never let him see what cards you have and keep unemotional. If he starts ranting, Tell him you have to go because you won't talk to him when he's speaking in that manner. Click.


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## LonelyNLost

Okay, meeting with my attorney tomorrow morning, and then meeting with stbx tomorrow evening at a restaurant. Wish me luck! I hope this divorce goes quickly, I met someone really cool and am ready to move on!


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## turnera

Good for you!


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## Jellybeans

Good luck


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## tamara24

I think it is great they are on cheaterville!LOL!:rofl: Stay firm. I see the need to want to let this go as easily as possible for the money issue. But, if the man can't even admit that he was having affair before the marraige ended, he isn't going to be completely honest with you now.

As far as custody goes, I hope you documented him cancelling while the skank was in town and when he has a simple appt. My thinking is that no judge is going to be happy with giving custody visitations to a man that cancels on a whim. Not that I think a father should not see his kids, but they will be shuffled during school weeks from one house to another. Not a very stable lifestyle for them. Not unless he took them at the beginning or the end of the week so they had three days there, four days with you. At this point, knowing that skank is coming, I would hold firm to the custody agreement as it is. 

Maybe I am wrong here, but even if you move on and ready for the divorce to proceed, I think he should be honest and upfront with what he did. I think you are holding the upper hand because you have retained the attorney and he is worried about the money. So are you, but he doesn't need to know all that. I would take the attitude of hey, it would be nice to work it out but I will not be giving up my attorney as I don't feel we can come to a satifactory agreement.

I would sit him down and say, listen. We both know you had an affair,you want this to work out so YOU don't have to shell out more money for as lawyer then you need to start being honest about what happened. This divorce is a consequence of your actions and visitation with the kids has been effected by your actions too. I will not try to come to an agreement with you until you can recognize that your actions has hurt this family. I am ready to proceed with the divorce, but I am not willing to put up with a bunch of lies. They effect my dealings with you in the future with the kids. If I can't trust you on your word, I can't trust you with the kids and knowing the skank is coming to live here, it is only fair we be able to deal with each other honestly for the sake of the kids getting to see us working together and feeling secure. When you're ready to cut the crap and really get to business,let me know. If not, then my laywer will be contacting you.:bsflag:

He is running scared about the money but again. CONSEQUENCES for his actions. This is setting up your future for the kids. His well being is no consequence just as you and the kids well being has not been a part of his. Oh, I am sur ehe loves the kids, but 1000.00 since May does not show support. He has to grow up and be an adult. Play time is now over and you mean business. You know the visitations are about the money, but he cancelled and refused to talk to son when he needed his dad's guidance. He was worried about showing skank a good time. KIDS COME FIRST! Your marraige is now over, but the kids need both of you. not just when daddy wants to set aside his time!

I know money is tight. But you have to realize that unless he can man up, he is going to do every play in the book to keep his money so he can start life with skank. Let reality hit him hard! You didn't ask for this, nor the kids! He abandoned you to have an affair (wasn't she still also married) with a woman out of state. He has not made regular payments contributing to the household nor has he stuck to the visitation schedule. It is different than rearranging the schedule to cancelling all together. Isn't there a way where when you go to court and win the case he must pay for attorney fees? This may be your out. Check into that. Yes, I do agree that working it out will benefit both of you, but at this point I doubt you will recoup anything you have paid in the last few months and I worry he will try to play the broke routine to get you to agree. I would not agree to anything until I had a night to think it over. Think of your kids future, even as you move on they are stuck with this. Let them get as much as they can!


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks, gals. So I met with my attorney and went over the rebuttal sent by his attorney. He had a huge fit about the morality clause and the child support amount. In order to decrease the child support he wanted more visitation. He also wanted a few more things from the house, and other minor things, like not allowing me to move if need be. Nothing too major, except the things I anticipated.

Last night, we spent 2 hours at a restaurant together hashing out our details. It was very odd. I got down to business right away by showing him my budget shortfall. He sympathized and talked about his situation. We have come to a final agreement it seems, and it ended on a good note. He spent a lot of time apologizing for how things went down and telling me how he wishes me happiness and was glad to see that I am smiling and laughing and enjoying life. In his words, he was afraid that I would "Go coo coo for cocoa puffs" judging by the way I handled things in the beginning. We pretty much stayed off the topic of the adultery, because in our phone conversation I got that all out and he is just going to insist that he didn't cheat. But it's whatever. 

I felt like I had a solid case with the visitation schedule established, and keeping records of when he'd cancelled, but our state is very into the equal timesharing. If he stands up and says he wants the kids more, they are going to give it to him as long as he's stable. It doesn't matter if he's with another woman, or he cancels occasionally. I mean, I'd love to fight it out, as I need the money, but it doesn't look like I'd win and it would be a lot of wasted money. Had to let the morality clause go, as my lawyer said it wouldn't fly. The child support was too high for him to afford and so he wanted more visitation, so I negotiated for every Thursday overnight, and then every other Tuesday overnight, only because he said he'd just pay me a set amount like $550 or $600 a month. Have to work that out with my attorney. He won't agree to let me move if I need to, just said we'd revisit at a future date. I also stood my ground on keeping the TV in my room and he said he won't fight me on it. Main sticking point is child support of course, and so we are going to just do an amount (above guidelines of course) in the settlement agreement. 

A fair amount of joking around was going on, especially about me keeping his last name or giving it up. He said he wouldn't ask me to go back to my maiden name but he'd be surprised if I kept it. He really thinks I hate him, so I joked around about that, didn't say I did NOT hate him. He made it a point to make his future with OW seem uncertain. She is moving here in the next 2 weeks, and he rented a 3BR 1 1/2BA townhouse. It's near where he lives now. He said that it would be his place no matter what happens with his girlfriend. Said he didn't know if things would work out with her or whatever. Kind of strange. I'm not upset at all at the fact that he's moving on. I did say that I would support him in a relationship with a new someone else and meet them and all, but that I wish to not interact with OW and would not be pleased to be in the same room as her. He said he understood.

All in all I feel like it went as well as it could have. I had to give on things, and I'm listening to my mother ***** me out about rolling over. But I am not up for a long drawn out court battle, in which I don't stand a chance. So, hopefully this way my lawyer can amend the agreement and then he will sign and we can file. Just want it over with! But it sounds like it will happen soon. I just need to type up all the changes and send it to her and have her do some more support calculations. So I still have my attorney, he doesn't have one. Reality has hit him and he knows it. But, like I said, I take him to the cleaners for the $900 and most likely I'll just be out more money. I still don't really like the visitation schedule because I feel like it's shuffling, but he's their dad and he loves them and deserves time with them. I don't want them to suffer, you know? 

I feel like he's trying to be as fair as he can, and that he does feel bad about things. Not that it changes the way it all happened. He kept saying how he hopes I find someone who can make me happy and love our children. The person I met who is really cool is someone I met as a friend, who has supported me through all this. We met up with him while on vacation, and the connection we have is amazing. It started as friends and the kids met him (and a few other people male and female) as friends of mine, and really took to him. I want to be divorced and free to pursue this without the complications this process brings. But it's exciting to have that prospect, even though he lives 5 hours away. I think that's good though for now. STBX mentioned the kids talking about this person, and I let him know that it was comforting to know that life could go on, and the kids could be happy and I could be happy. It sucks to know that in 2 weeks he will be playing house with OW and her kid. But hopefully, I'll be divorced soon and moving on with my own life. I have to say it was a very odd experience watching someone else hang out with my kids, and it fit so naturally. I know, there'll be concerns about me getting involved with someone else in the near future, but for now, this is therapeutic to talk to this person each day and to see how life gets put into perspective when you reflect on the past. It's the past for a reason. I'm ready for the future. And I'm going to be just fine.


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## LonelyNLost

So, according to my son, stbx is flying out to Vegas this Wed night and staying for 5 days to help her pack up, and then driving the UHaul back here. So next week, when we start school again, he'll be setting up house with her. So sickening. My son is ecstatic about it, but I will just do my part to be the best mom I can be. Still makes me sick to my stomach. I don't want her grubby claws on MY kids. Sigh. Hoping he has enough common sense to not bring her to my home.


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> All in all I feel like it went as well as it could have. I had to give on things, *and I'm listening to my mother ***** me out about rolling over. *


:rofl:

I think this is a universal Mom Thing. My mother did th same during my divorce. She was sooo mad when I signed things over but like you said, sometimes it's better to compromise if you can instead of killing oneself financially in a court battle!

You sound so good! You've come so far!!! I am not surprised that your stbx keeps apologizing, still maintains he didn't cheat, and sounded "uncertain" about his cheater girlfriend. They have a shaky foundation to start with and probably will never trust eachother. I know you feel sad about her moving cose to where you are but you are handling this very well. She's a skank! Don't let her get to you.

Glad to see you have met someone nice and you are almost done with this divorce. You sound soo much better now :smthumbup:


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## turnera

Why is your son ecstatic about it?


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl:
> 
> I think this is a universal Mom Thing. My mother did th same during my divorce. She was sooo mad when I signed things over but like you said, sometimes it's better to compromise if you can instead of killing oneself financially in a court battle!
> 
> You sound so good! You've come so far!!! I am not surprised that your stbx keeps apologizing, still maintains he didn't cheat, and sounded "uncertain" about his cheater girlfriend. They have a shaky foundation to start with and probably will never trust eachother. I know you feel sad about her moving cose to where you are but you are handling this very well. She's a skank! Don't let her get to you.
> 
> Glad to see you have met someone nice and you are almost done with this divorce. You sound soo much better now :smthumbup:


Thank you, I feel a MILLION times better! It's amazing. I'm able to look back and reflect on things that were wrong in my marriage that I failed to see. Dynamics that were flawed, communication issues, and the best thing is that I can learn from them and carry on into a future relationship. I don't plan on spending too much time upset about skank moving here. I will just ask him to please not bring her around out of respect. 

And yes, I'm super excited about this someone new. We're very compatible and connected, and it's nice to have someone to lean on who has been through a similar experience. Too bad he doesn't live closer, but the distance keeps things in check until the divorce is final. 

I'll let you all know when the divorce is filed and we are just awaiting a court date. Oh, and my mom apologized for overstepping. Phew. I just everyone to support me and not question my decisions. Back to school next week, back to the hustle and bustle. 



turnera said:


> Why is your son ecstatic about it?


I think he's excited because of the way it was presented to him by his father. He took him to see the townhouse and pointed out all the great things, like how skank's son is 11 and they like similar things, and that the kid has an xbox, wii, playstation, etc. Sounds like a spoiled brat, tbh, if all that is true. Told my son he'd get free haircuts from the skank. He won't be around stbxh's parents smoking and their rules. There's a pool they'll have access to. You know, how kids are. I want my kids to be happy and well-adjusted and enjoy time with their father, so I do hope they like it, for their own sake. But I wish it wasn't with HER. Ugh.


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## LonelyNLost

Hi everyone! Just thought I'd update quick. Kids went with their dad on Tuesday to stay at his new place with him and OW and OW's 11 year old son. Interesting feelings surrounding that. A part of me was angry feeling as if that is MY family, and who the heck is she stepping into that role. Very weird. Another part of me, felt like I needed to be okay with it because I can't change it, and I hope that the kids like her because I don't want them to be miserable there. And of course the very small part that fears they'll like her more than me. I know, stupid. 

Yesterday I picked the kids up from daycare, and my son was going on and on about how much fun he had with her son. He told me that the kid was cool, but talked too much. LOL. I asked how everything was and if it was weird, he kind of shrugged. He told me that OW is ginormous, as in fat. And that I'm way prettier. Then my 3 year old daughter chimes in to tell me I'm pretty but she is bad. OW bought my kids toys.  My son also told me they call each other "babe" and what they had for dinner, etc. Oh and apparently she has 2 yappy dogs. I'm sure it's like a zoo over there.

So all in all they had a good time, though not sure how much of that has to do with her. I let my son go spend the night again last night, but kept my daughter home, and she came out asking to go to OW's house (using her name). STBX corrected her and told her it was HIS house. This is the last week before school starts, so I'm letting my son stay there tonight as well, so 3 nights in a row. 

Moving forward, because there's nowhere else to go.


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## voryn

Sounds like you are handling things well and being mature about everything. Kudos and goodluck with the future.


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## LonelyNLost

voryn said:


> Sounds like you are handling things well and being mature about everything. Kudos and goodluck with the future.


Thank you! I have my moments, but for the most part I've come a LONG way in the last 5 months. This thread documents the arduous journey that I wish to never relive again!


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## hesnothappy

LnL, you sound good ;o) We have been through the fire and came out stronger. Your kids will never love the OW more than you. Glad you both are able to put the bad stuff aside for the kids betterment. How is your new friend comin along? It's been 5 months for me also, and I am wanting some company too ;o)


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## LonelyNLost

hesnothappy said:


> LnL, you sound good ;o) We have been through the fire and came out stronger. Your kids will never love the OW more than you. Glad you both are able to put the bad stuff aside for the kids betterment. How is your new friend comin along? It's been 5 months for me also, and I am wanting some company too ;o)


Thanks, I feel really good. I mean, most days.  It's amazing isn't it? At first you feel like you'll just curl up in a ball and die without them, but in all reality, the other side is better. And the kids seem great, which really is all I should care about. 

Last night when I called the kids OW and STBX were talking loudly in the background, commenting on what the kids were saying to me, which really irritated the crap out of me. I was really close to asking my son to hand the phone to his father so we could have a chat about how disrespectful it was. Instead I asked my son to leave the table and go to the other room to talk to me. Grrr.

Thanks for asking about my friend. He is wonderful, and the most amazing support I could ask for. It's a long distance relationship, and we're both still healing, so trying to take it slow for the time being. But it feels really good to know that there's something better out there. I always thought my H and I had a great connection, and that we meshed well, but this guy is like my mental twin. LOL. He definitely picks me up when I'm down, that's for sure. I have just been having several things hit me in the last couple days that make it hard, like money amongst other things. But I know brighter days await me!


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## Jellybeans

LonelyNLost said:


> He told me that OW is ginormous, as in fat. And that I'm way prettier. Then my 3 year old daughter chimes in to tell me I'm pretty but she is bad.


 Gotta love kids. They are so honest, right? LOL



LonelyNLost said:


> Moving forward, because there's nowhere else to go.


You have a great attitude, Lonely. Keep on with the keep on. Oh and it sounds like your "new friend" is a treat. You're going to have to change your handle name on here soon!


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Gotta love kids. They are so honest, right? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> You have a great attitude, Lonely. Keep on with the keep on. Oh and it sounds like your "new friend" is a treat. You're going to have to change your handle name on here soon!


Yeah, kids are pretty honest. And good judges of character I think. 

I wish I could just change my username to NotSoLonelyNLost, lol. And yeah, this friend is the definition of awesome. I feel lucky. 

But STBX got into it a bit with me today via text after I texted him and told him it wasn't cool that vegas skank was driving around with my son. He is very concerned with me being okay with him. I told him we need to sit down and discuss boundaries. He kept texting. Sigh. Going on and on about how he is happy for me. Blah blah blah.


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## Jellybeans

I wouldn't engage him beyond what points you want to make with him re: co-parenting and appropriate boundaries. Tell him what you feel and need and don't go beyond that.

I knwo you asked for advice on the boundaries with the kids and OW but I can't give you any as I don't have kids and it'd be like a blind person tryin to give you advice on how to see if that makes sense. LOL. One thing is universal though: if you aren't comfortable, speak up with him. Keep your emotions in check. You guys will have to come to a compromise. 

It seems odd that they just up an dmoved in together to me. I wonder if the affair was happening a lot longer than you knew. Gah, I know that sucks but you know what... my mother always says "Lo que mal empieza, mal acaba."

Translation: What begins badly, ends badly.

I can't imagine those two will ever trust eachother. Idk whow she looks at your kids in the face knowing they know of her homewreckery.

Either way, it doesn't matter now...move on with your life and be glad you don't have to deal with his BS and being lied to anymore.


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> I wouldn't engage him beyond what points you want to make with him re: co-parenting and appropriate boundaries. Tell him what you feel and need and don't go beyond that.
> 
> I knwo you asked for advice on the boundaries with the kids and OW but I can't give you any as I don't have kids and it'd be like a blind person tryin to give you advice on how to see if that makes sense. LOL. One thing is universal though: if you aren't comfortable, speak up with him. Keep your emotions in check. You guys will have to come to a compromise.
> 
> It seems odd that they just up an dmoved in together to me. I wonder if the affair was happening a lot longer than you knew. Gah, I know that sucks but you know what... my mother always says "Lo que mal empieza, mal acaba."
> 
> Translation: What begins badly, ends badly.
> 
> I can't imagine those two will ever trust eachother. Idk whow she looks at your kids in the face knowing they know of her homewreckery.
> 
> Either way, it doesn't matter now...move on with your life and be glad you don't have to deal with his BS and being lied to anymore.


Yes, I'm keeping my emotions in check and really not entertaining his manipulative tactics. So I'm doing pretty good at keeping my passive aggressiveness in check. Said friend does a good job of keeping me in check. :smthumbup:

I don't think the affair was going on before October of last year. And they really had no way to even see each other before January. And even then, they've only been together a handful of times before she moved here. But I guess since they dated in high school, they figured all was blissful in fantasy land? 

I'm working on what's acceptable. Should I be upset that she painted my daughter's fingernails? Like I don't want to be petty, but yes I'm uncomfortable. I get that. But I guess I need to just think about what is best for the kids, to shield them from all that's happening. I do know that in 20 years when they look back, they'll see the way I handled things and the way he handled things, and they'll be able to tell who had their best interests. Stbx even tries to qualify my new friend in the same category as OW. I don't think so. There's a big difference and the kids know it. Plus they've only seen him a few times, he doesn't even live in our town!


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Yes, I'm keeping my emotions in check and really not entertaining his manipulative tactics. So I'm doing pretty good at keeping my passive aggressiveness in check. Said friend does a good job of keeping me in check. :smthumbup:
> 
> I don't think the affair was going on before October of last year. And they really had no way to even see each other before January. And even then, they've only been together a handful of times before she moved here. But I guess since they dated in high school, they figured all was blissful in fantasy land?
> 
> I'm working on what's acceptable. Should I be upset that she painted my daughter's fingernails? Like I don't want to be petty, but yes I'm uncomfortable. I get that. But I guess I need to just think about what is best for the kids, to shield them from all that's happening. I do know that in 20 years when they look back, they'll see the way I handled things and the way he handled things, and they'll be able to tell who had their best interests. Stbx even tries to qualify my new friend in the same category as OW. I don't think so. There's a big difference and the kids know it. Plus they've only seen him a few times, he doesn't even live in our town!


The fingernails... Is it something you do? I remember it really stinging when my EX's woman would try and do mother/bonding with my daughter. She wasn't even part of an affair but she drove me insane (all my insecurities) when she singled out my daughter. 
Examine yourself and see if it bothers you because you don't believe a 3 year old should have painted nails or if it's because SHE did them. If it's jealousy, drop it. If it's something you believe in, mention it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

golfergirl said:


> The fingernails... Is it something you do? I remember it really stinging when my EX's woman would try and do mother/bonding with my daughter. She wasn't even part of an affair but she drove me insane (all my insecurities) when she singled out my daughter.
> Examine yourself and see if it bothers you because you don't believe a 3 year old should have painted nails or if it's because SHE did them. If it's jealousy, drop it. If it's something you believe in, mention it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, yeah, I do paint her nails, but usually just the toes because she chews her fingers sometimes and I don't want her ingesting the paint. I have to say that 3 weeks ago she came home with painted nails and stbx had done them, and I thought that was sweet. So maybe it's just that she's mothering my child. I mean, the witch stole my family, that's bothersome. You better believe they will be painted another color before they go with him tomorrow night. But if she cuts my daughter's hair, we are having words!


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Well, yeah, I do paint her nails, but usually just the toes because she chews her fingers sometimes and I don't want her ingesting the paint. I have to say that 3 weeks ago she came home with painted nails and stbx had done them, and I thought that was sweet. So maybe it's just that she's mothering my child. I mean, the witch stole my family, that's bothersome. You better believe they will be painted another color before they go with him tomorrow night. But if she cuts my daughter's hair, we are having words!


Hey preaching to the choir! My kids stepmom told my then 6 year old son, 'your mom is full of sh!t, there is no such thing as Santa'. I thought she over-stepped her boundary there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Girlx

I just wanted to say that THIS thread gives me tons of hope. I wish I can grow and gain as much confidence as you have. Yes i read most of the pages.. 

Makes me feel sooo much better to know that someone came out better and stronger after it all. 

FYI- my H was/is (hes living with her now) having an affair. They are both military and work with each other. I moved out of our house and into my parents. He wont have a place to live which is why he says hes staying with her.. Claims hes not "living" there.. 

But anyways.. Still gives me hope. I need hope right now.


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## LonelyNLost

Girlx said:


> I just wanted to say that THIS thread gives me tons of hope. I wish I can grow and gain as much confidence as you have. Yes i read most of the pages..
> 
> Makes me feel sooo much better to know that someone came out better and stronger after it all.
> 
> FYI- my H was/is (hes living with her now) having an affair. They are both military and work with each other. I moved out of our house and into my parents. He wont have a place to live which is why he says hes staying with her.. Claims hes not "living" there..
> 
> But anyways.. Still gives me hope. I need hope right now.


Aww, you made me tear up.  I'm glad that I am able to provide some hope to you. I remember being at the point of feeling like my world would end if my marriage didn't survive. One day it just clicked for me and I realized I needed to kick into survival mode. This site has helped immensely as just being able to share my thoughts and process of healing has been therapeutic. I wish you luck. You can do this, and you'll find the person you WERE inside, and I bet you've missed her dearly! 




golfergirl said:


> Hey preaching to the choir! My kids stepmom told my then 6 year old son, 'your mom is full of sh!t, there is no such thing as Santa'. I thought she over-stepped her boundary there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's is AWFUL! WTH is wrong with people? Yeah, that's overstepping a boundary for sure. I would be beating some @ss if that happened! LOL.


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## DelinquentGurl

Lonely,

You have come a long way and I am proud of you for that.
Your H is delusional if he thinks this relationship is going to last.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

DelinquentGurl said:


> Lonely,
> 
> You have come a long way and I am proud of you for that.
> Your H is delusional if he thinks this relationship is going to last.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, it feels really good to be in such a better place. I know I'm not 100% healed, and I have some things I still need to work out emotionally, but all in all I'm happy with who I am and where I'm at. Every once in awhile, I get upset, but every day there are less of the "why" questions. Closure, slowly but surely. 

I feel the same about their relationship lasting. It's got all the odds stacked against it. But you never know. I have to be okay with it working out, because it could happen. I've got to let go of the bitterness. Now my children see her as a part of their lives, so if/when it fails, they are going to experience another loss, and for that I'm sad. I hope it happens sooner rather than later. 

Get this, I called the kids last night, they had all gone to the beach. OW cut my son's hair (which didn't upset me, as long as my daughter's hair is untouched). But then my son proceeds to tell me how he cut off all of his dad's hair, like shaved it to a 1. WTH? I think he's lost his mind. The only time he did that before was right after we got married, and it was on a dare. It looked so hideous. Weird. All of it.


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## LonelyNLost

Got into a 45 minute conversation with stbx last night on the phone. Sigh. Who is this guy? 

I told him I didn't want him to have every other Tuesday overnight because that was too much back and forth with him keeping them over Thursday night overnight. Told him I'd prefer he just takes the kids for an hour or so to preserve their time with just him. I took a couple low blows (trying to stop this). He wants me to be okay with the kids staying with OW while he's at work. I told him I don't want my kids with that homewrecker.

Basically, he isn't willing to work with me much to take a Saturday off instead of a Thursday off on a weekend so that I can travel to see the guy I'm dating. He knows I'm dating, and he's said he's happy for me and he's glad the kids like him. He even said he'd meet him. But he is using this to make me agree to let the kids stay with the homewrecker. I'm sort of torn about it. I guess I need to resolve to the fact that she's going to be around my kids, and I should probably go over there and meet her and just stand strong. But damn, that sounds impossible. I don't want to look at her face. And it kills me when my daughter asks to talk to her when stbx calls at night. The kids do really love the guy I'm seeing, and they ask to talk to him on skype every night. 

It's just hard to sit and process all this. I talked this out with a supportive friend last night and I feel like my wounds are reopened for a bit, but I know I'll be okay. I just have some emotions to work through.


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## turnera

Tell him they can stay when he is legally married to her.


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## anx

when you said earlier that he is excited for you, I can't help thinking that is largely to remove guilt from him. He is too excited about it. Of course he wants you to be happy too. 

I think that's why divorce is such a stigma in religious circles. The wounds never totally heal. You will go to your grave and remember this hurt and some things will trigger it. Try to take it the best and most responsible and healthy way you can, but you were hurt as deeply as someone can be hurt. The scars will always be there and it will be a fear and issue in your next relationship that you will have to work on there. It's just not possible to be abandoned and betrayed like this and be all sunshine. 

Blessings. It is great to hear things are so good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> when you said earlier that he is excited for you, I can't help thinking that is largely to remove guilt from him. He is too excited about it. Of course he wants you to be happy too.
> 
> I think that's why divorce is such a stigma in religious circles. The wounds never totally heal. You will go to your grave and remember this hurt and some things will trigger it. Try to take it the best and most responsible and healthy way you can, but you were hurt as deeply as someone can be hurt. The scars will always be there and it will be a fear and issue in your next relationship that you will have to work on there. It's just not possible to be abandoned and betrayed like this and be all sunshine.
> 
> Blessings. It is great to hear things are so good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey anx! Hope things are looking up for you. 

And yes, I do think he was excited about me moving on because he wouldn't feel so bad about his choices. The kids started talking about this guy at the same time he was preparing to move her here. It was funky timing, and he acted weird at first. But he has said over and over again that he's happy for me, and he's glad the kids like him, and that he's okay as long as the guy treats me well. Might be a different story when he sees me with the guy. I might introduce them this weekend.

And you're right, the wounds never heal, but you can learn from them. I was talking with the guy I'm dating about it all night, which is what ended up making it emotional for me. I get disappointed I think by the hurt that's still there, or the fact that I let him bother me. But really, it isn't that the wounds were reopened, it's more like I was reminded that I still have some issues to work through. And honestly, the person I'm with couldn't be a better person for me to work this through with. We're both recovering from a lost marriage, and have been each other's greatest support. I am very thankful for him. The communication and openness couldn't be beat.


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## LonelyNLost

Oh, and problem solved. My mom is driving over to watch the kids that day, so he won't be having his homewrecker watch them and I can travel guilt free. Whew.

STILL waiting on my attorney to make the revisions. It's been over 2 weeks since I emailed her the changes. Ugh.


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## LonelyNLost

Just checking in with a quick update. Just submitted (hopefully) the final set of revisions. Had a nice hour and a half long "discussion" with my lovely husband on Tuesday night in front of the kids. He pissed me off because he put my son on the spot by asking him what he wanted. Poor kid. Stbx was really stuck on Tuesday night visits. I said I wanted to stick to the original plan of him spending an hour and a half with his kids and taking them for ice cream or to the park and he is insistent on wanting to keep them till 8 and take them back to his place with skank. I went ahead and told my lawyer to just make it alternating Tuesdays with one being 4-6pm and the other 4-7:30pm. He agreed to pay the filing fee and sign for everything else, including support of $630 per month, if I agreed to Tuesdays. Who knows if that will be true. But I guess we'll see. He even said he waits by the mailbox everyday hoping that the paperwork is in there. LOL.

It's been interesting with my kids going over there so often. I don't know what kind of operation they've got going on, but there's always interesting stories. My daughter is 3, and she comes up with the most intriguing perceptions. Fills my daycare provider's ear with funny things. She's told the OW I don't like her and I think she's ugly. She's told me that Daddy doesn't love me, he loves her. But my kids seem happy and that's what matters. We have fun when we're together. They seem to like OW okay, and they absolutely love the man I'm seeing. They only get to see him once per month, and we spend the day with them. Then they go with their dad, so they are never there when he stays the night. But we do skype with him and the kids love it. This weekend was funny as I was at the park with the man I'm seeing, and the kids were with their dad and OW, and they were at the same park. We found that out later, but WHOAH, that would have been awkward. I still haven't seen her face to face, but stbx does drive her car when he comes to get the kids. One night he had pulled too far into the garage and I didn't realize and almost shut the garage door on her hood, LMAO. But yeah, she treats my kids okay, but it seems she makes inappropriate comments. And they are both total trash.

Hopefully the lawyer doesn't take forever and she actually gets this ball rolling. I gave him another financial affidavit to fill out since he lost the other. I think I'll give my lawyer till Monday and if I don't have the revised draft in my hands I'm leaving a message every day at her office. Then once he signs, she is supposed to file on my behalf, and I will be calling every day to make sure that happens. I had hoped this would be all over by my anniversary on 11/4, but I don't think that's going to happen. Happy 11 years, *********!  My new goal is by Jan 1st!

Other than that, things are alright. Money situation is really crappy, working with my creditors to try to get caught up. Relationship with my long distance friend is great, he's a really awesome support as I heal and move forward. I look forward to the future and I know I'll be okay!


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## turnera

Glad to hear it's shaking out ok.


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## anx

I agree. Thanks for the update and its great that it's such a good one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks, guys. I'm eternally grateful for each of you for helping me through.  

I do have my setbacks, like last night the OW tagged one of stbx's aunts in a photo on facebook so it showed in my feed that they were friends and the photo. And OW has pics of my kids as her profile pic, obviously trying to get at me, and she posted all about how she is enjoying his family and then his mom is saying, "I love you, sweetie" to her. Ugh, make me puke. Guess she's more two-faced than I realized. But I know in the end I'll be happier without all that drama. The future is bright and mine for the taking! OW can play her games, because in the end that's all she'll have.


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## turnera

Think about it.

SHE got stuck with a cheating man.

YOU are free to seek out someone with integrity, who will never cheat on you, who will cherish you and make you feel like a queen.

What's she got to look forward to?


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## golfergirl

LonelyNLost said:


> Thanks, guys. I'm eternally grateful for each of you for helping me through.
> 
> I do have my setbacks, like last night the OW tagged one of stbx's aunts in a photo on facebook so it showed in my feed that they were friends and the photo. And OW has pics of my kids as her profile pic, obviously trying to get at me, and she posted all about how she is enjoying his family and then his mom is saying, "I love you, sweetie" to her. Ugh, make me puke. Guess she's more two-faced than I realized. But I know in the end I'll be happier without all that drama. The future is bright and mine for the taking! OW can play her games, because in the end that's all she'll have.



I hate those games. My daughter's evil step-mother posted on her FB how she's looking forward to being a grandma (my daughter is pregnant). Screw off beeyotch - that's my title! My daughter is sweet and didn't respond to or like that comment .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

turnera said:


> Think about it.
> 
> SHE got stuck with a cheating man.
> 
> YOU are free to seek out someone with integrity, who will never cheat on you, who will cherish you and make you feel like a queen.
> 
> What's she got to look forward to?


EXACTLY my thought. I wish I could go back and show myself that things turn out for the better. He isn't going to be any different with her. I definitely upgraded while he downgraded. Just different caliber of people, I suppose. I've already realized that there are lots of GOOD people in this world who share my ideals. 



golfergirl said:


> I hate those games. My daughter's evil step-mother posted on her FB how she's looking forward to being a grandma (my daughter is pregnant). Screw off beeyotch - that's my title! My daughter is sweet and didn't respond to or like that comment .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow, people are so insensitive and full of themselves. Glad you guys are above it, as well. And congrats on the grandbaby, so exciting!


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## Jellybeans

Hey Lonely. Thanks for letting us know what's going on with you.
Glad to hear the paperwork is going smoothly, or rather, on its way. 
Is there a way you can block from seeing stuff about her on your Facebook?

I wish you nothing but the best!


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## LonelyNLost

Jellybeans said:


> Hey Lonely. Thanks for letting us know what's going on with you.
> Glad to hear the paperwork is going smoothly, or rather, on its way.
> Is there a way you can block from seeing stuff about her on your Facebook?
> 
> I wish you nothing but the best!


Yes, I think I can block her, but I'll probably do that and delete all his friends and family. I'll probably keep his best friend's sister and that's it. I'm working on a short note to tell them why I'm making that choice and to wish them the best in my normal sweet as pie way. Sucks, but it's part of moving on. 

And thanks! I'm going to start calling my attorney every day and bugging the crap out of her so that she gets crap moving.


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## turnera

All, I've enjoyed knowing you but it's time I move on and start the incredible new life I have envisioned for myself and, unfortunately, that life just isn't going to comfortably include all of stbx's family and friends, for obvious reasons. I wish you all well.


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## Lostouthere

Im getting ready to get rid of all my ex family and friends. Congrats on moving forward LNL


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## lht285

I would just remove them and say nothing. Facebook does not show when you unfriend someone and it just makes for less drama that way. Drama is only good on television.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Good point.


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## LonelyNLost

Hi everyone! Just checking in with a quick update and maybe get some advice?

Last revision of the marital settlement agreement was sent to him and received by him on Nov 16th. He sent a long email response to my email inquiring about some visitation dates. He just put this in there, "I have not had a chance to review it as of yet but I do have the paperwork and will speak with you as soon as I have a chance to look it over." Not sure what to make of it, and no mention has been made since. I was hesitant to inquire about it since I didn't want it to look like I was desperate or something. But damn, I'm going to start 2012 still married to this POS. And I don't know if he's about to come back at me with something. I hate this LIMBO!!!! I want closure. I want to move to the "Life After Divorce" forum.

So what should I do? Say nothing and just wait? Have my attorney call after a certain number of days? Ask him about it? 

Nothing else really new. He's still pushing for me to be okay with them going with his skank without him present. I went ahead and deleted his family from my facebook. Just sent a short note to his aunt saying that I'm not sure if she realized I could see her feed, but to avoid it happening in the future I went ahead and deleted her and then I wished her well. No response, but I didn't expect one. 

I'm doing well. Stressed about money and all, but I feel like I'm finding my footing. I'm really happy though. And my kids are happy. And that's all I can ask for in this life.


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## Jellybeans

Hi Lonely!

Just wait til you meet with him to discuss. Keep cool. Keep your emotions out of it and come to an amicable agreement.


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## creeo

I hope this is resolved for you soon Lonely, you deserve it!!! Been a long haul and you've come so far!! Big hugs!!


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## LonelyNLost

Thanks jelly and creeo! 

Looks like he wasn't planning on sitting down with me at all. Yesterday my attorney emailed me a fax he had personally sent to her. He's not being represented by an attorney so this is his own response to the paperwork. Kind of a weird thing to do, since my attorney just gives it to me. I make the changes. Dumba$$. 

He had issue with the time we were swapping them on Christmas day, wants it to be 2pm every year, but I have it at noon on the years I have them so I have time to drive three hours to be with my family for dinner. I don't think that's a big deal. He also has issue with the right of first refusal but I think he's just reading it wrong. And he states in there to clarify to me that he doesn't lose his visitation just because he isn't off work. I get that, but I also think it would be in the best interest of the kids to be with me because I'm off work and we can go visit places rather than sit at home with his skank while he is at work. I'm not going to be bound at home! Then he also wants the child support to start when the divorce is final, so that he owes me no back pay. The same with one of the financial obligations he hasn't been taking care of, he wants it dated as of the dissolution. Two ways to worm out of giving me anything. He also won't even split the cost of our son's field trip, tells him to ask me for the money like I have any! Geez. 

So that's where we are at. Seems kind of close but so far away! Ugh.


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## KathyGriffinFan

Hey Lonely, any updates?


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## LonelyNLost

KathyGriffinFan said:


> Hey Lonely, any updates?


Hey KGFan! I'm doing great. Unfortunately, I'm STILL married. Why is it that these F*ckers leave us, but they drag things out? I'm completely dissatisfied with the amount of time it takes my lawyer to make changes to the draft, but then again each draft of the marital settlement agreement that goes to my ex has to be changed because he finds something he doesn't like. I'm at my wit's end. He's trying to get out of owing me anything when the papers are signed. We are dating the child support to start May 1, 2011, but he's saying because his paycheck went into the account for the month of April when he wasn't living at the house, that should count and cover the month of May. Ugh. The minute I was responsible for covering all costs to care for the children is the minute you start paying child support, sucker! So, that's the big thing right now, I've changed almost everything else, and frankly, I'm done bending. It's been over a year! 

We have periods of cordiality (most of the time) but we go back and forth probably biweekly or so about something. He is still living with the skank in what seems to be a pretty trashy neighborhood. My son likes to go over there and play with her son, but I can see he is quickly tiring of the selfish nature of the other boy. The skank still leaves once a month to fly to her hometown and work. So odd. I have no idea of the state of their relationship, nor do I care. 

He felt the need to go into this rant a couple months ago which was very weird. I had called him to let him know I took our son to see a counselor due to his teacher's concerns. And I relayed a comment my son had made to me after a discussion with his father. See, stbx thought he'd tell our son how he still loved me and was sorry our marriage didn't work but we grew apart because we worked different hours and never saw each other so we didn't do fun things enough. My son got angry and says to me, "Daddy lied." and then replays the conversation. So I tell stbx about this convo and about how his son knows the truth and is angry and frustrated at being lied to, and that I don't know how to fix it except to reassure him that his father is just human and makes mistakes. He goes on to tell me how he didn't cheat, she had nothing to do with things. It was mindblowing how much he has made his fiction into fact in his own mind. He even told me how she had to petition the courts in her homestate in order to move her son here with her, which doesn't make sense in his argument that they weren't planning on being together because that just means that if she hadn't had to petition she would have been here before August. He talked about how you make decisions at the time but then realize later that they were the wrong ones, and he said he's sorry, and he hates that I dislike him, and he made his bed and has to lay in it, etc. Really cryptic and not sure what to make of it. He took responsibility for not communicating and said that I tried to do so and it just isn't in his nature to open up but now his friends and family have to deal with it and he's happy I am happy and wants nothing but the best for me. So freaking weird. I was pretty numb after all that. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but at least I know there's no chance of him ever admitting anything and truly apologizing and asking for forgiveness. I told him, "Well, maybe one day when life humbles you, you'll look back and realize what you've done and be able to face yourself in the mirror and reconcile the hurt you caused" and he had the audacity to respond with, "Well maybe one day you'll be able to look back and see that I did nothing wrong and we just grew apart." Yeah, it's like trying to reason with an animal of some sort. Just doesn't comprehend! 

Personally, life is great. I've almost got my finances back on track, except for two credit cards that were sent to collection agencies. I'm planning on going through a credit counseling agency to try to work something out. I had a falling out with my best friend back in November, which ended up being a really good thing. No room for negative people in my life that can't be happy for others. The kids are adjusting pretty well, they both seem so happy and carefree when they're with me. My son had some issues with anger at school, and of course I have to deal with the trashiness he experiences over at his dad's house and try my best to provide stability here at home. Oh, and I don't think I told you guys, the ex's truck got stolen a couple months ago out of his driveway. Hehe. Karma sucks. They found it abandoned so then he had to fix the damage himself, lol. 

The man I was dating is absolutely wonderful. Things progressed and we are pretty serious. He just moved from his town to my town (320 miles) to be closer to me. And he's great with the kids, and an absolute gift. Guess it's time to spill the beans on that.  If you look back at about page 10 or so of this thread a poster named "oak" posted here. There were a bunch of us back at that time that were going through identical situations on the same timeline. April 2011 about 12 of us here on TAM friended each other and started a private group on facebook (And ironically all of them are still not divorced either. WTH?). Then in June I invited Oak to join after his divorce was final. We talked a lot on the phone and online and planned a meetup of a group of us. The rest backed out, but we still met. And the rest is history. So cliche', but I found love on TAM. :smthumbup: Modern version of You've Got Mail. Looking forward to moving on to better things and putting the nail in this divorce coffin. It annoys the sh&t out of me that I've been going through this process for over a year. 

Thanks for checking in on me. It feels good to have a second chance at life. I am way more independent and more focused on what I want out of life than I've ever been. This is the growing up and finding myself that I never got to do at 18 because I jumped into a relationship where we both became codependent and didn't communicate. I'm pursuing personal endeavors for once, and making sure not to repeat mistakes of the past. I love spending time with my man, but I also make time for my friends, as well as making new friends. I'm really enjoying creating new rituals with my children, and making memories. I'm embracing life and loving every moment.


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## WhereAmI

Love on TAM! That's crazy. I'm happy for you!

I'm sorry your H is dragging his feet. A lot of WS's seem to do the same thing. You'd think they'd want to end it quickly considering they have their fantasy life to live.

You should convince some of the others to come back and update TAM. I was following Amimad's posts closely when she was still here. I hope she's doing well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost

WhereAmI said:


> Love on TAM! That's crazy. I'm happy for you!
> 
> I'm sorry your H is dragging his feet. A lot of WS's seem to do the same thing. You'd think they'd want to end it quickly considering they have their fantasy life to live.
> 
> You should convince some of the others to come back and update TAM. I was following Amimad's posts closely when she was still here. I hope she's doing well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks! Yes, AmIMad, Vivea, babyheart, crankshaw, rome2012 are all in our group and probably the most active here at one time. Everyone is moving forward. I will tell AmI to come back and post!


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## MainMan#6

LonelyNLost,

I just read your story today, all 80+ pages, and all I can say is wow. You are kinda my hero right now!!! I read your story and felt like i was going through what you was going through (even though i really can't relate for nothing this crazy has happened to me). At times my heart dropped for you and your children and at other times I screamed in excitement for you. I am glad that you are moving on and I wish for nothing, and I MEAN NOTHING, but the best for you and your children.

God Bless!!!!

Also, the people that helped you through this process are awesome as well


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## LonelyNLost

MainMan#6 said:


> LonelyNLost,
> 
> I just read your story today, all 80+ pages, and all I can say is wow. You are kinda my hero right now!!! I read your story and felt like i was going through what you was going through (even though i really can't relate for nothing this crazy has happened to me). At times my heart dropped for you and your children and at other times I screamed in excitement for you. I am glad that you are moving on and I wish for nothing, and I MEAN NOTHING, but the best for you and your children.
> 
> God Bless!!!!
> 
> Also, the people that helped you through this process are awesome as well


Aww, you are the sweetest. Thank you so much for sharing that. I'm glad you got something from it. If anything, my story shows that you can survive anything, even when you think at first your world is falling apart. I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone, but I also would never change that it happened to me for the world. Could've done without my heart being smashed into a million pieces, but I'm happy with who I am now and I know so much more than I did when this all started.

I skimmed through some of the posts and at the time I didn't get the frustration people had with me. Now I can see it. Once you make it through the tunnel, you know things are brighter on the other side. But when you're living it, you are blind to anything but what you think you want. I want to grab people and shake them and tell them to let go, everything will be okay. But people have to live and learn. And I don't regret anything I did, because I can truly say I did all I could and I loved with all I had. I deserved better, and I'm getting better now. And my heart is able to truly appreciate and love more than I thought was possible. 

Just handed stbx ANOTHER draft of the marital settlement agreement. Please cross your fingers with me and pray that he signs that damn thing!


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## 52flower

I remember those posters & wondered about them. I smiled when I read the news about your new relationship! I love to hear about those who have healed their wounded hearts & have found happiness again! You've been through a lot & deserve it. Good luck to you!!


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## LonelyNLost

52flower said:


> I remember those posters & wondered about them. I smiled when I read the news about your new relationship! I love to hear about those who have healed their wounded hearts & have found happiness again! You've been through a lot & deserve it. Good luck to you!!


Thanks! I won't say I'm totally healed, but I'm on even enough ground to think rationally and do constant gut-checks. We both came from the same situation, which makes it nice to be able to discuss. I'm happier than I've been in a long time!


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## jenny123

LonelyNLost said:


> Aww, you are the sweetest. Thank you so much for sharing that. I'm glad you got something from it. If anything, my story shows that you can survive anything, even when you think at first your world is falling apart. I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone, but I also would never change that it happened to me for the world. Could've done without my heart being smashed into a million pieces, but I'm happy with who I am now and I know so much more than I did when this all started.
> 
> I skimmed through some of the posts and at the time I didn't get the frustration people had with me. Now I can see it. Once you make it through the tunnel, you know things are brighter on the other side. But when you're living it, you are blind to anything but what you think you want. I want to grab people
> and shake them and tell them to let go, everything will be okay. But people have to live and learn. And I don't regret anything I did, because I can truly say I did all I could and I loved with all I had. I deserved better, and I'm getting better now. And my heart is able to truly appreciate and love more than I thought was possible.
> 
> Just handed stbx ANOTHER draft of the marital settlement agreement. Please cross your fingers with me and pray that he signs that damn thing!


I didn't read your whole story, but so glad to hear the wonderful outcome. It really gives hope to all of us that are currently going through this hell. 

I would love to hear other peoples outcomes that don't post anymore. I guess once the black cloud is gone, you really don't need this forum anymore. 

Thank you for the update and good luck with the settlement agreement.


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## LonelyNLost

jenny123 said:


> I didn't read your whole story, but so glad to hear the wonderful outcome. It really gives hope to all of us that are currently going through this hell.
> 
> I would love to hear other peoples outcomes that don't post anymore. I guess once the black cloud is gone, you really don't need this forum anymore.
> 
> Thank you for the update and good luck with the settlement agreement.


Thanks! Yes, it is a long and sordid tale, but brief version is the same. End story is that yes it sucks to be left (and/or cheated on) but life DOES go on and you will survive it and be happier at the end because of the self-discovery that you'll go through. Eye opening for sure! 

I'll try to get the rest to come back and maybe we'll post a "Where are they now?" thread for those of us that have been in the process for a year or more. It actually helped me move forward by not coming back to TAM much. It's a lot of sadness, and the state that people are in, they don't really believe that things will get better even if the outcome isn't what they wanted. And if you go over to "Life after divorce" not many happy people post there. Sigh. But if a few people read this and get inspiration, then it's worth it.  Good luck to you!


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