# Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicided



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I’m surprised we don’t hear more about infidelity related murders, or violence. I think there must be more occurrences than the media reports, and I feel that this omission is intentional. Many stories of domestic violence or murder only mention “marital difficulties” and rarely infidelity specifically. Anyone care to speculate why this is the case?

Love Triangle Ends in Murder Suicide When Wife Ambushe Romantic Rival


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

My speculation is that the journalists cannot, in some of the cases, substantiate their statement of infidelity. "Marital difficulties" are common to every married couple, no one will test the veracity of that statement.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> I’m surprised we don’t hear more about infidelity related murders, or violence. I think there must be more occurrences than the media reports, and I feel that this omission is intentional. Many stories of domestic violence or murder only mention “marital difficulties” and rarely infidelity specifically. Anyone care to speculate why this is the case?
> 
> Love Triangle Ends in Murder Suicide When Wife Ambushe Romantic Rival


*I really think that doing something of this nature is more prevalent whenever these jilted people also are bringing along their mental problems with them!

And that's not exactly saying that their spouses ongoing infidelity isn't what contributed to their degree of mental instability that led them to their heinous act!!*


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

I kind of think many/most situations where a spouse murders the other and then kill themselves is infidelity related. Especially when the people are pretty old.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I’m surprised we don’t hear more about infidelity related murders, or violence. I think there must be more occurrences than the media reports, and I feel that this omission is intentional. Many stories of domestic violence or murder only mention “marital difficulties” and rarely infidelity specifically. Anyone care to speculate why this is the case?
> 
> Love Triangle Ends in Murder Suicide When Wife Ambushe Romantic Rival


Yup. Cheating is primal and often inspires violence towards others and self harm as well.

I have known at least 3 men commit suicide over it and one who was attempting to murder an OM when he was killed by the girlfriend or wife of the OM, I can't recall.

I would get violent over it and I know cheaters are often so filled with self loathing that they often self harm or commit suicide.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

So sad and unnecessary. The intensity of feelings can push some people to do things they wouldn't normally do. That's why it has a special term: Crime of Passion.

While I don't know anyone who has committed a crime due to infidelity, I remember that I felt like a living zombie, unable to die, when I became aware of what was going on in my husband's mind, and how it was about to affect me and our children.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moderator warning here. I just deleted a post from a poster advocating beating up the affair partner. TAM does not allow advocating for violence. In real life such violence can lead to death, serious injury and the attacker spending years in prison. Here on TAM, advocating for violence can lead to days of a time-out ban.

{Speaking as a moderator}


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

...

Fair enough.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Araucaria said:


> That's why it has a special term: Crime of Passion.


That term almost makes it sound 'romantic'. Imagine what it is like to be driven to such a horrific act.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

We do not know the whole story of that sad situation at all. Whatever made the lady murder that woman and kill herself points to huge disturbance.

I hope the families weathers this better than she did.

Her husband has to live with whatever transpired and his role in it.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

michzz said:


> We do not know the whole story of that sad situation at all. Whatever made the lady murder that woman and kill herself points to huge disturbance.
> 
> I hope the families weathers this better than she did.
> 
> Her husband has to live with whatever transpired and his role in it.


Some people have no conscience. Seems to describe biggest majority cheaters. He'll probably think, oh goody I get to chase more tail.

Makes me want to puke.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I have been involved with a few cases that were violent, but generally it is unwise to post them on any board, as most boards have a rule against talking about violence. I am dealing at this time with a friend of my son's. This kid is a real go-getter. He is already going for his masters certificate in his chosen field, has purchased his own condo, and married his GF, and had a child with her. That is the rosy part of the story. 

This girl, the wife, has a screw loose, I imagine. She was doing his tax work for three years, and the government questioned an entry on his tax return. He contacted me and as a courtesy, I made a few inquiries, discovered the error, and had it corrected. Took me all of a half hour. I have known this kid since forever, and his mom and dad are dear friends, so I treat it like water off a ducks back. Apparently, she got livid that I got involved. I have no idea what precipitated her actions except for this, and apparently he went to take a nap. He was awakened by her carving a wound into his forehead with a chef's knife. He is a big guy, ex semi-pro baller. And he can't fend her off. She succeeds in putting a few deep ones on his arm, and chest. Nothing life threatening, thank god. He calls the police, has her arrested. She is nuts, attacks the cops too. Got tasered for her troubles. He comes to see me the next day, and I do not even give him a chance to talk, I walk him down the street to my preferred lawyer. She is served in the city jail. She promises to end his life. In a jail. Surrounded by officers and guards. The charges were upped to include uttering and threats. His D lawyer is coordinating with prosecutors. Her family is trying to get the funds to bail her out. She already has been slapped with enough RO's that she will not be able to come within miles of him. He is permanently disfigured.

However, I have a really nice down to earth assistant. Nice girl, well raised. I am training her to become an accountant. She has already enrolled in courses. I am going to introduce them in a few months.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

I don't know if the BW had kids or not? 

If she did have kids she may have seen this OW becoming an evil step-Mother and pushing her kids aside and alienating them from their fathers love. Most parents say they would do anything to protect their children perhaps this BW sacrificed herself. 

It's an often overlooked fact but when you cheat with a married person you are abusing their children and possibly pulling down an entire extended family, and you are putting yourself in a dangerous position.

Were I on the jury I would find the BW innocent had she not killed herself, although I doubt I would be empaneled. 

Tamat


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I’m surprised we don’t hear more about infidelity related murders, or violence. I think there must be more occurrences than the media reports, and I feel that this omission is intentional. Many stories of domestic violence or murder only mention “marital difficulties” and rarely infidelity specifically. Anyone care to speculate why this is the case?
> 
> Love Triangle Ends in Murder Suicide When Wife Ambushe Romantic Rival


I also believe there are a lot more cases of physical violence, or even killing, that are a direct result of infidelity that get no coverage beyond local press, or where the infidelity is left unmentioned or covered up with ‘marital difficulties’ or the couple was ‘estranged’.

Unless it involves a somewhat famous person (athlete, politician, celebrity) or some type of very public or sensationalized situation, it is rarely picked up by the larger mainstream press to hear about the infidelity involved.

Why?

Great question......and all we can do is speculate for the reason.

One poster mentioned one important consideration.....if the infidelity is only ALLEGATIONS with no proof, then a journalist would have to be wary of defamation suits, so they would be likely to avoid a direct statement of adultery being involved.

Another possibility has to do with social attitudes towards adultery in general.....

There is obviously little appetite in Western society to treat infidelity other than as a simple relationship ending.....

Most jurisdictions are no-fault, so a WS faces no financial or custodial consequences......a BS can’t sue for emotional trauma....heck, it is difficult in most jurisdictions to even sue a WS if they gave you an STD and gave you a PHYSICAL injury with their A.

There are also very few jurisdictions that will allow any form of justice to be inflicted on the AP either.....an AP could injure a BS and their family in almost any other conceivable fashion, and the justice system would offer them some form of recourse for justice.....BUT for an A?......no dice.

IMO, it is as if society just wants to put its collective head in the sand on the tremendous damage that adultery does to innocent BSs and the children of families caught up in this crap.....

They simply do not want to hear about it.....

So the LAST thing society would want is for the media to hold up a mirror and show that infidelity doesn’t just lead to broken families and emotional trauma.....but that it also plays a huge role in causing large amounts of physical violence and even killings.

Documenting all of the social costs and damage that infidelity causes in society would lead to demands that something needs to be done to deal with the problem.....

And, IMO, that is simply something that society does not want to do (maybe because so many of the adulterous POS APs are rich and powerful?).....

Keeping our collective heads in the sand seems much more comfortable.

Just my .02


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



michzz said:


> Her husband has to live with whatever transpired and his role in it.


His role in the murder/suicide is simple: He caused it to happen. As far as I’m concerned, the gun might as well have been in his hands.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

@Dyokemm
Very well said. I think you clearly pointed out the real problem. Society wants this to be treated like ‘everyone does this, it’s no big deal’. Start adding up the real costs and all of a sudden people will take notice.

I’m willing to bet that if real stats were being kept on murders due to infidelity, the annual number would exceed that of ‘mass shootings’. (Not said to diminish the seriousness of that crime).


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



The Middleman said:


> His role in the murder/suicide is simple: He caused it to happen. As far as I’m concerned, the gun might as well have been in his hands.


Yep....a complete and utter POS.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

The Middleman said:


> @Dyokemm
> Very well said. I think you clearly pointed out the real problem. Society wants this to be treated like ‘everyone does this, it’s no big deal’. Start adding up the real costs and all of a sudden people will take notice.
> 
> I’m willing to bet that if real stats were being kept on murders due to infidelity, the annual number would exceed that of ‘mass shootings’. (Not said to diminish the seriousness of that crime).


I'm not so sure society wants to normalize infidelity. As a previous poster suggested, printing that someone was committing adultery can get you in libel trouble if you can't prove it.

It is true that romantic entanglements are a frequent motivation for violence/murder. Sometimes it is a spouse who is murdered so the other spouse can be with their BF/GF.

On a lighter note, 2 leaders of a white supremacist party got into a fight b/c one was pluking the other's wife. An arrest was made as a result of the fight.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.34d7ff078542


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*

Well looks like the former BS in our story here sought advice from an on-line forum. Food for thought.

Wife in Murder Suicide Solicited Marriage AdviceBefore Killing Other Woman


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## rv10flyer (Apr 26, 2018)

Cheaters don’t think it will ever happen to them. They never see it on the news, so there must not be much risk. I know of four in my little town in the past 25 years and many more “unsolved” ones. This needs to make the news more often, but like mentioned above, we would rather stick our heads in the sand and keep being players.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



The Middleman said:


> Well looks like the former BS in our story here sought advice from an on-line forum. Food for thought.
> 
> Wife in Murder Suicide Solicited Marriage AdviceBefore Killing Other Woman


I get the hatred of the OW in this case, but in reality, she killed the wrong person. The OW didn't vow to stay faithful to her. IMO - any BS is best off staying away from the OP. They need to focus on themselves and their WS. And of course, violence isn't the answer.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

This post is most likely to be pure speculation on my part, but I can tell you from what I see each day nobody wants these numbers to come out. Partly because of the fear of vigilante justice running rampant, and because each states lawmakers are eliminating laws on infidelity. If you eliminate the law, such as alienation of affection, then the lawmakers won’t get strung up by their own laws. Infidelity is not thought of until it happens to you. Even if it happens to a friend you might get mad, but in a week your anger has diminished significantly. But it if it happens to you, the event is thought of for a lifetime regardless of divorce or reconciliation. It’s the scar that never goes away.

I know what I wrote above is pretty general, but infidelity laws are basically extinct. It’s that way for a reason, it’s very difficult to actually prove without having a video of it. Then there are laws that you can’t record people without telling them. How do you get the actual proof? Just because you have a text message or email admitting to an affair isn’t sufficient proof. They can say they wrote that because the betrayed was spying on them and their jealousy had reached heights of epic proportions. It’s truly sad, as infidelity isn’t a victimless crime as many may think. 

Now in this case, what is the best way to get the ultimate revenge on a wayward partner. Exactly what this betrayed spouse did in a way, she took away both of the people he loved. He lives with the guilt that his actions drove his spouse to do this. Now I believe this should be front page news for weeks, so people begin to think twice about just banging for jollies and that a betrayed just might hunt you like an animal. Hell, my wife’s OMW just may hunt my wife down, or I may hunt down OM. Nobody knows how one may react, that they might be driven over the edge and commit a crime. I know my MC was on the fence about contacting authorities when she realized the truth of my anger. I kept my wits, I didn’t kill him, but I don’t think the list would be long for those that would miss him if the truth were to hit the light of day. List might be short for my wife too, who knows.

Truth about infidelity is that it is vigilante justice, people beat or kill when it comes to love. I’m no different, I wish I could say to beat them senseless, but a larger part of me says to let live them live in fear of their transgressions. I take solace in that OM, who claims to be deeply religious will fear his death and the chair of atonement. That’s his cross to bear, his problem if you will. What I won’t do, is tell a betrayed spouse they were wrong in beating or killing their OM or OW. TAM may have an issue with this, and I’m certainly not promoting violence, but I have been known to be lenient or extend courtesies to betrayeds I have come across in my personal life. I know that pain they felt, I didn’t encourage them to do it, but I didn’t get the chance to tell them not to do it. What’s done is done, you can’t unbeat them, you can’t unkill them, any more then the wayward can’t unscrew them.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



naiveonedave said:


> I get the hatred of the OW in this case, but in reality, she killed the wrong person. The OW didn't vow to stay faithful to her. IMO - any BS is best off staying away from the OP. They need to focus on themselves and their WS. And of course, violence isn't the answer.


I agree her anger went to the wrong person.


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## Ms. Hawaii (Mar 28, 2018)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



The Middleman said:


> His role in the murder/suicide is simple: He caused it to happen. As far as I’m concerned, the gun might as well have been in his hands.




Um no he didn’t cause her to kill another human being. She CHOSE to kill her husband’s mistress when she had other choices. She could have divorced her husband. Killing the other woman is all on her.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Now in this case, what is the best way to get the ultimate revenge on a wayward partner. Exactly what this betrayed spouse did in a way, she took away both of the people he loved. He lives with the guilt that his actions drove his spouse to do this.





drifting on said:


> Truth about infidelity is that it is vigilante justice, people beat or kill when it comes to love.


I hope that this doesn't earn me a BAN.

You are right about the ultimate revenge on her WH. He now deals with the guilt of 2 deaths that he indirectly caused, and he is the reason two families are destroyed. I said earlier that he may as well have pulled the trigger both times. If I were his children, I would disown him.

Another thing is that I firmly believe that violence is the Biological/Instinctual/Hormonal reaction to infidelity. We are hard wired to lash out at both the WS and AP. If you buy the concept that we are hard wired towards infidelity, then you have to accept that violence is our biological reaction to it. Now if society removes all legal recourse for the BS to get justice from the WS or AP, then where does the BS go for justice? I'm telling you "being the better person" doesn't cut it for some people. I say, expect a rise in infidelity related violence. Just my 2 cents.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



Ms. Hawaii said:


> Um no he didn’t cause her to kill another human being. She CHOSE to kill her husband’s mistress when she had other choices. She could have divorced her husband. Killing the other woman is all on her.


I respectfully disagree.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



The Middleman said:


> I respectfully disagree.


Nope. 
@Ms. Hawaii 's post is ground truth right there.

Now, to be absolutely clear, husband is a the very worst breed of low life slimeball and I excuse absolutely nothing about his behavior. 

But it is absolutely ridiculous to say "the gun may as well have been in his hands."

If you really think that, and are so easily persuaded to chuck any and all personal responsibility for ones actions right out the window, ask yourself this: How many cases of infidelity are there? How many of them end up in homicide? 

I mean, c'mon. No matter how heinous infidelity, homicide is NOT the natural outcome.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Nope.
> 
> @Ms. Hawaii 's post is ground truth right there.
> 
> ...


I am of mixed opinion on this. The WH did do a significant amount of emotional trauma on his BH. I believe this is akin to making this a crime of passion, even though it is planned out. He clearly didn't pull the trigger, but he really did initiate the chain of events in a way that 'often' ends with violence. I wish I knew what fraction of infidelity contains significant violence, it may help drive me to a stronger conclusion. I just don't think some people can handle the trauma, emotional abuse, PTSD or what not from infidelity and lash out violently. Probably a larger percentage than we think, though it probably doesn't end in death at a high enough rate.

It also doesn't make it right, but, again my opinion, infidelity causes mental problems in the betrayed spouse.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



naiveonedave said:


> I am of mixed opinion on this. The WH did do a significant amount of emotional trauma on his BH. I believe this is akin to making this a crime of passion, even though it is planned out. He clearly didn't pull the trigger, but he really did initiate the chain of events in a way that 'often' ends with violence. I wish I knew what fraction of infidelity contains significant violence, it may help drive me to a stronger conclusion. I just don't think some people can handle the trauma, emotional abuse, PTSD or what not from infidelity and lash out violently. Probably a larger percentage than we think, though it probably doesn't end in death at a high enough rate.
> 
> It also doesn't make it right, but, again my opinion, infidelity causes mental problems in the betrayed spouse.


It used to be illegal to commit adultery in many states. The laws were all rescinded for being archaic and the whole government has no right to be in my bedroom thing. 

But there is no doubt adultery is inherently harmful. It is an assault, while not physical against the victim, an assault nonetheless, and potentially even more painful and long lasting than an actual physical assault. 

I would love it if there was some kind of formalized punishment for adulterers... for the pain and destruction they cause. 

But I would never advocate holding them accountable for the deliberate actions of their betrayeds. 

And on a related note, if I was going to excuse an adultery-driven homicide, it wouldn't be one against the AP, it would be one against the wayward. As heinous as the AP's actions are, the AP did not take vows with the betrayed, the wayward did. I've never understood going after the AP first. If it was me, I'd be dealing with my wayward first and foremost.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



Ms. Hawaii said:


> Um no he didn’t cause her to kill another human being. She CHOSE to kill her husband’s mistress when she had other choices. She could have divorced her husband. Killing the other woman is all on her.





Yet if he hadn’t had an affair with her she would be alive, correct? He had a hand (possibly two) and another part of his anatomy in this. He could have divorced and then dated the mistress as well, instead she played with guns and played with fire and got burned. We will never know if the mistress would be alive today had he divorced.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

drifting on said:


> This post is most likely to be pure speculation on my part, but I can tell you from what I see each day nobody wants these numbers to come out. Partly because of the fear of vigilante justice running rampant, and because each states lawmakers are eliminating laws on infidelity. If you eliminate the law, such as alienation of affection, then the lawmakers won’t get strung up by their own laws. Infidelity is not thought of until it happens to you. Even if it happens to a friend you might get mad, but in a week your anger has diminished significantly. But it if it happens to you, the event is thought of for a lifetime regardless of divorce or reconciliation. It’s the scar that never goes away.
> 
> I know what I wrote above is pretty general, but infidelity laws are basically extinct. It’s that way for a reason, it’s very difficult to actually prove without having a video of it. Then there are laws that you can’t record people without telling them. How do you get the actual proof? Just because you have a text message or email admitting to an affair isn’t sufficient proof. They can say they wrote that because the betrayed was spying on them and their jealousy had reached heights of epic proportions. It’s truly sad, as infidelity isn’t a victimless crime as many may think.
> 
> ...


You know, this is a great post. I know exactly how you feel. 

For me, I took some slight revenge when it happened, well, not so slight. But I did not get arrested. 

But even then I directed it at the wrong person. But when you are that young and ignorant you just don't know what to do. 

But this is a great post. You know, if you want to be with someone, I get it, but just pull the band aid off and come clean. 

And even for myself, I am not clean in the later years before I divorced, long story , but I am not. 

But this one, it is obvious that his wife was unhinged, but really, can you blame her. Her entire life, is about to be gone. How do you deal with that? Not to mention that she may have still loved her husband. 

But somehow, she found out and took the ultimate action. I remember feeling this way, he just ended up with stitches but it could have been so much worse. But even then, that was not the person that I should have taken it out on, but as a man, I cannot hit woman, so what do you do????

That is what people that do this just do not understand. For whatever reason, they just don't and never will understand the pain. 

What is worse is, what if some of them do and they choose to inflict in on the BS, that is even worse, is it not?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I would LOVE to know which marriage forum she posted on....


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> It used to be illegal to commit adultery in many states. The laws were all rescinded for being archaic and the whole government has no right to be in my bedroom thing.
> 
> But there is no doubt adultery is inherently harmful. It is an assault, while not physical against the victim, an assault nonetheless, and potentially even more painful and long lasting than an actual physical assault.
> 
> ...




My opinion is that the betrayed did deal with her wayward, by making him live with two deaths on his conscience for his actions of committing adultery. One of my first ever calls I ever went on for my job was infidelity. The husband came home and found a guy naked in bed with his wife. Husband grabbed a bat and chased the OM for a country mile. OM and husband BOTH had to go to the hospital. OM for his injuries, husband for chest pain exerting so much energy into trying to kill the OM. This was before my wife’s infidelity, but even to this day, I feel both should be locked in the same cell for fifteen minutes. Just my opinion, one that may get me banned, and I hope not, so I’ll leave this thread.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



drifting on said:


> My opinion is that *the betrayed did deal with her wayward, by making him live with two deaths on his conscience* for his actions of committing adultery. One of my first ever calls I ever went on for my job was infidelity. The husband came home and found a guy naked in bed with his wife. Husband grabbed a bat and chased the OM for a country mile. OM and husband BOTH had to go to the hospital. OM for his injuries, husband for chest pain exerting so much energy into trying to kill the OM. This was before my wife’s infidelity, but even to this day, I feel both should be locked in the same cell for fifteen minutes. Just my opinion, one that may get me banned, and I hope not, so I’ll leave this thread.



Only if:
1. He has a conscience (doesn't sound like he does), _and_
2. he mistakenly believes he is responsible for her actions. 

Maybe I don't have a strong basis for saying this since I can't fathom committing adultery in the first place, and therefor can't really put myself in a wayward's shoes. But I have to think that even if I did this, and that was the tragic sequence of events, I would "have to live with" the pain I caused which would be devastating to me, but I would never even dream of "living with" the deaths of two people on my head. I believe I would still make a very stark and unbreakable distinction between the pain I created and the deliberate actions someone else _chose _to take.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I think when we make the rightness or wrongness of something depend on what was done to us rather than, ya know, right and wrong...we are on dangerous ground.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I would LOVE to know which marriage forum she posted on....


It was the Nextdoor app.

So not really a “forum”, per se, much less a marriage forum.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



The Middleman said:


> His role in the murder/suicide is simple: He caused it to happen. As far as I’m concerned, the gun might as well have been in his hands.


Bull****.

That’s no better than the ol’ “You made me cheat.”

He’s responsible for his ****, she’s responsible for hers.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> It was the Nextdoor app.
> 
> So not really a “forum”, per se, much less a marriage forum.


Ahhhh....isn't next door a neighborhood type app? I might be thinking of something else.

I doubt a forum would ever go so far as to suggest murder. Other illegal activities - I've seen that. But not murder.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Only if:
> 1. He has a conscience (doesn't sound like he does), _and_
> 2. he mistakenly believes he is responsible for her actions.
> 
> Maybe I don't have a strong basis for saying this since I can't fathom committing adultery in the first place, and therefor can't really put myself in a wayward's shoes. But I have to think that even if I did this, and that was the tragic sequence of events, I would "have to live with" the pain I caused which would be devastating to me, but I would never even dream of "living with" the deaths of two people on my head. I believe I would still make a very stark and unbreakable distinction between the pain I created and the deliberate actions someone else _chose _to take.




I agree, but even though I was destroyed and devastated, I had many ways to harm my wife’s OM. Could have acted on them at any time, I didn’t, and it is a regret of mine that OM’s feet were not held to the fire as my wife’s were. I attempted suicide when I previously never came close to being suicidal. Perhaps this betrayed found this to be the only way, just as I saw death as the only way. I shouldn’t be here today, I should be in a box in a cemetery. However I got lucky, God saved me, or I was just too stupid to do the deed correctly. You can choose any answer, but just as this betrayed saw death as the only answer, I understand, it was my only answer for thirteen months also.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Ahhhh....*isn't next door a neighborhood type app?* I might be thinking of something else.
> 
> I doubt a forum would ever go so far as to suggest murder. Other illegal activities - I've seen that. But not murder.


Yep. And it’s actually a pretty handy app. Like any social media platform, I can see how it could enable different types of illicit activity, but still — it’s pretty cool.

I’ve not read anything to suggest that anyone recommended that she kill anyone, though.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> Yep. And it’s actually a pretty handy app. Like any social media platform, I can see how it could enable different types of illicit activity, but still — it’s pretty cool.
> 
> I’ve not read anything to suggest that anyone recommended that she kill anyone, though.


More likely it just become overwhelming for her - the grief and anger. Raw emotions like grief, anger, fear, even protectiveness will make the unthinkable thinkable sometimes. It's one of the reasons it is highly dangerous to corner an animal.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



The Middleman said:


> His role in the murder/suicide is simple: He caused it to happen. As far as I’m concerned, the gun might as well have been in his hands.


If he *was* having an affair.

Some people are paranoid and imagine all sorts of things that just aren't true.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Araucaria said:


> So sad and unnecessary. The intensity of feelings can push some people to do things they wouldn't normally do. That's why it has a special term: Crime of Passion.





The Middleman said:


> That term almost makes it sound 'romantic'. Imagine what it is like to be driven to such a horrific act.


Your definition of passion didn't even occur to me when I used the term. Murder or violence do not bring thoughts of romance to my mind at all. My definition for passion falls under #4 according to Mirriam Webster's dictionary while yours falls under #5.

Definition of passion
1 often capitalized
a : the sufferings of Christ between the night of the Last Supper and his death
b : an oratorio based on a gospel narrative of the Passion Bach's St. Matthew Passion

2 obsolete : suffering

3 : the state or capacity of being acted on by external agents or forces
moldable and not moldable … and many other passions of matter —Francis Bacon

4 a (1) : emotion his ruling passion is greed (2) passions plural : the emotions as distinguished from reason a study of the passions
b : intense, driving, or overmastering feeling or conviction
with enough passion to make a great poet —W. B. Yeats
c : an outbreak of anger a crime of passion

5 a : ardent affection : love He had never felt such passion for any woman but her.
b : a strong liking or desire for or devotion to some activity, object, or concept a passion for chess a passion for opera
c : sexual desire a look of passion in her face
d : an object of desire or deep interest


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

*Re: Two More Families Destroyed: Murder Suicide*



GusPolinski said:


> Bull****.
> 
> That’s no better than the ol’ “You made me cheat.”
> 
> He’s responsible for his ****, she’s responsible for hers.


I see the logic and truth of your point.....

But still think this POS should live as a social pariah until the day his miserable carcass disappears.....

Two people are dead because this POS couldn’t police his own d*ck......screw people like him they should be treated like pond scum for the rest of their existence IMO.....

Reminds me of a poster on LS a couple years ago who shared about his neighbor’s situation......

WW got caught with POSOM at her house when BH and her own teenage DS came home.....scuffle ensued and POSOM pulled out a gun.....

BH was severely wounded and her DS was killed by this friggin turd of a human being.....

Poster said the WW was put in a mental institution from her breakdown.....

Hope she rots there after what her actions brought on.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Araucaria said:


> Your definition of passion didn't even occur to me when I used the term. Murder or violence do not bring thoughts of romance to my mind at all. My definition for passion falls under #4 according to Mirriam Webster's dictionary while yours falls under #5


They way the term been used in media/culture over the years has changed the context from the dictionary definitions. One that comes to mind is the Jimmy Buffett song “Cuban Crime of Passion”.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I was extremely angry when I found out that my husband cheated. Total rage is more like it. In the beginning, some of it was directed toward the other woman -- I had proof she was the pursuer -- but 99% was directed at my husband, which is where it should have been. Killing the other woman or the other man and then killing yourself is stupid. Yes, when I first found out I absolutely wanted to rip the other woman into tiny pieces but I didn't. Vengence against the other party is misplaced. You know who betrayed you.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I actually know of a BH who drove around with a gun considering killing the OM's child.....sorry, betrayed or not, that's disgusting.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Openminded said:


> I was extremely angry when I found out that my husband cheated. Total rage is more like it. In the beginning, some of it was directed toward the other woman -- I had proof she was the pursuer -- but 99% was directed at my husband, which is where it should have been. Killing the other woman or the other man and then killing yourself is stupid. Yes, when I first found out I absolutely wanted to rip the other woman into tiny pieces but I didn't. Vengence against the other party is misplaced. You know who betrayed you.





I’ve read this post several times, and I agree with some of it. If your husbands OW knew he was married then sho owns her part in the affair. I view it this way, spouse who cheats, 100% guilty. Who spouse cheats with, begins at 50%, if knew they the person was married, 100% guilty. Takes two people to have sex, so they start at 50% each, but if marriage involved and both know, 100% each. In my case the OM tried to be my friend, didn’t like him much from the day I met him. Now, my reason may be based on stupidity, but I don’t think so. First time I met him his handshake was limp, the old dead hand. By not giving a firm handshake, that’s strike one. A handshake should be firm, squeezed, not just here’s my hand if you want to hold it. Second impulse I get from a dead hand is to smack them in the jaw.

Anyway, both party’s do betray you, even though you have no vows with the OM/OW. They are the garbage your spouse had sex with to blow up your marriage.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

drifting on said:


> In my case the OM tried to be my friend, didn’t like him much from the day I met him.


In my case, one OM was my friend, and I liked him very much. Another OM was an acquaintance I worked with. I didn't know him well but I didn't dislike him for any reason.

In fact, up to one day before I discovered her adultery, if someone had said, in my presence, that my friend would cheat on his wife and his family, I would have told them point blank to shut up because they didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

Just goes to show that we really don't know other people. Not even our spouses.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I actually know of a BH who drove around with a gun considering killing the OM's child.....sorry, betrayed or not, that's disgusting.


I agree with you 100% on this......

There is NEVER an excuse......in ANY situation, not just infidelity......to injure a totally innocent relative, friend, etc of someone who has injured you in order to get revenge or justice.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

TJW said:


> In my case, one OM was my friend, and I liked him very much. Another OM was an acquaintance I worked with. I didn't know him well but I didn't dislike him for any reason.
> 
> In fact, up to one day before I discovered her adultery, if someone had said, in my presence, that my friend would cheat on his wife and his family, I would have told them point blank to shut up because they didn't know what the hell they were talking about.
> 
> Just goes to show that we really don't know other people. Not even our spouses.




Ouch, that had to be one hell of a bomb when it went off. Since this was a good friend of yours I’m curious, did that friendship end? Did your marriage end? Did OM’s marriage end? My wife’s OM was her coworker, didn’t know him well, wasn’t impressed with his first impression. The best thing I can say about him is he served his country, army branch of the military. Other then that he’s nothing but scum. He once told my wife he was most worried about a mutual friend knowing of the affair. I thought about this for a long time, why would he be worried about a friend knowing? One would think you would be most worried if your spouse found out. Nope, it’s all about reputation for this guy, he wants his friends to think he is a very good church going Christian. I haven’t told that friend yet, but he’s set to retire in less then two years, on his last day I will tell this friend what OM really is. Should be a nice surprise for OM when this guy knows. 

I agree we really don’t know people, I think we tend to believe we know people much better then we do. When my wife cheated I thought I knew her inside and out, yet I never once thought she would cheat. So I learned she is capable of more then I thought, I am now much more aware because of it.


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## rv10flyer (Apr 26, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Yup. Cheating is primal and often inspires violence towards others and self harm as well.
> 
> I have known at least 3 men commit suicide over it and one who was attempting to murder an OM when he was killed by the girlfriend or wife of the OM, I can't recall.
> 
> I would get violent over it and I know cheaters are often so filled with self loathing that they often self harm or commit suicide.


I bet many BS that murder would rather take their own life than spend it in prison.


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## rv10flyer (Apr 26, 2018)

TAMAT said:


> I don't know if the BW had kids or not?
> 
> If she did have kids she may have seen this OW becoming an evil step-Mother and pushing her kids aside and alienating them from their fathers love. Most parents say they would do anything to protect their children perhaps this BW sacrificed herself.
> 
> ...


My family was nearly destroyed by a preacher last year. That POSOM “man of God” baptized my two teenage children when the affair was revving up. His wife sitting in the front pew and singing in the choir 3’ from my wife. His church family is still recovering too.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> Ahhhh....isn't next door a neighborhood type app? I might be thinking of something else.
> 
> I doubt a forum would ever go so far as to suggest murder. Other illegal activities - I've seen that. But not murder.


Yes, that's a forum where neighbors post stuff like..."I saw a lost cat"... or ....."anyone know of a good landscaper"...or...."there's been a bunch of break-ins in the neighborhood lately"...

I'm surprised she'd want to post about her situation in front of all the neighbors.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> I've known people who have suffered both the loss of a child and infidelity say that infidelity is worse.


I'm so tired of hearing this. The problem with this statement is that it was one person's feeling, but the minions have made it an assertable objective fact.

If you'd rather lose a child than be cheated on...sI'm just now even sure what to say.

I love my husband with everything in me, but I would rather him go find a hussy right now than have one of my kids die. 

That kool aid is very strong.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I'm so tired of hearing this. The problem with this statement is that it was one person's feeling, but the minions have made it an assertable objective fact.
> 
> If you'd rather lose a child than be cheated on...sI'm just now even sure what to say.
> 
> ...


you would not want either. Unless you have had both, I don't know how you can comment. I can't comprehend what would happen to choose. Both are very devestating


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> you would not want either.


Of course not. But I can survive being betrayed by another human. I don't want one of my children to die. It's actually an easy choice. I've also been raped, which is another thing people like to wave around as being better than infidelity. No thank you.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Since this was a good friend of yours I’m curious, did that friendship end?


Yes. I confronted him about the affair. I talked to him a couple times. But yes, there was not a friendship left. 



drifting on said:


> Did your marriage end?


There wasn't a legal divorce, and I continued to live together with our family. The case could probably be made that there was an emotional divorce. I supported her, cared for her medically, protected the boys, and tried to do everything I should. 

Except, I was a sexual refuser. The thought of it made me want to vomit. All desire, all feeling, all attraction, etc.... was gone.

I should also say that it was not the affairs themselves which caused this. I just could not "get past" the knowledge that I could never please her in the bedroom. She complained about every aspect of our sex. Not one thing I ever did was correct, or pleasurable for her.

The marriage ended with her untimely death 4 years following "D day".



drifting on said:


> Did OM’s marriage end?


No. I don't know any of the details, only that they are still together. I have to give my friend some credit here. He screwed the pooch, no two ways about it. But, he had enough sense and enough desire to please God that he quit the affair, and went back home to his wife and family.

I look on him as a guy who was very naive, having been married to the same woman since early in his life. And, he got suckered in by a "pro" who had a long history of promiscuity.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

One Eighty said:


> Ok, so you don't like that particular analogy. The point is that infidelity causes great damage. I doubt anyone would argue with that. Yet this great damage is completely without remedy at law. In most jurisdictions. This doesn't sit well with some people, as is evidenced by the article that is the subject of this thread.


Yes, infidelity is devastating and causes immense pain to families. It's the ultimate marital betrayal, in my opinion.

That said, when someone chooses to break the law and commit violence, they have chosen poorly. And we either believe in personal accountability....or we don't.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I'm so tired of hearing this. The problem with this statement is that it was one person's feeling, but the minions have made it an assertable objective fact.
> 
> *If you'd rather lose a child than be cheated on...sI'm just now even sure what to say.*
> 
> ...


No one said or even implied that.

Either way, pain (especially the emotional variety) is a very subjective thing -- what "hurts more" for one person will "hurt less" for another.

I've read testimony from combat vets claiming that their spouses' infidelities did far more harm to them than any of their combat experiences ever did.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

One Eighty said:


> I think that the BS becoming violent towards the AP or the WS, in response to infidelity, is a direct result of our society removing any legal recourse to the offense. I've known people who have suffered both the loss of a child and infidelity say that infidelity is worse.
> 
> So, we have an offense that, to some, is worse than the death of a child and yet there is nothing the law can do about it. What better set up can you have for people wanting justice and taking actions to achieve some semblance of justice with acts of violence. I think is is completely understandable.
> 
> Some people are able to find non-violent ways to obtain some level of justice. Others cannot and resort to violence. Still others can forgive. Reach meh.





personofinterest said:


> ...when someone chooses to break the law and commit violence, they have chosen poorly. And we either believe in personal accountability....or we don't.


I agree with both of these statements.

"Understandable", after all, doesn't mean either "excusable" or "justifiable".


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Imo, when it comes to infidelity-related tragedies, it's clear that there's no apparent 'winner' in them. 

The ones I feel especially the most for are the children.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Just puzzled how it's a love triangle when the OW was married.

Not only is the husband trying to process his wife's murder but also the fact she was cheating on him.

Brutal.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

The Middleman said:


> I’m surprised we don’t hear more about infidelity related murders, or violence. I think there must be more occurrences than the media reports, and I feel that this omission is intentional. Many stories of domestic violence or murder only mention “marital difficulties” and rarely infidelity specifically. Anyone care to speculate why this is the case?
> 
> Love Triangle Ends in Murder Suicide When Wife Ambushe Romantic Rival


I have to believe that cases of infidelity that end in murder have a pre-existing mental illness involved. I'm talking a man or woman finding out about said infidelity and intentionally going to commit a murder. I can think of so many better ways to punish the WS or AP than just killing them. Murder just has no creativity or flair. People whose first reaction to stress and anger is violence are typically low intelligence or mentally unstable or both.


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## Patata (May 10, 2017)

happyhusband0005 said:


> People whose first reaction to stress and anger is violence are typically low intelligence or mentally unstable or both.


I disagree.


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