# I keep rejecting my husband.



## Kaimyzaree (Jul 17, 2015)

Been married 8 years now. We have three kids. Our sex life was great up until about six months ago. 
I stay at home....clean and cook and take care of the kids, recently started mowing the lawn and taking out the trash which used to be the only job my husband does in the house. I get frustrated that he doesnt clean. Or cook. Or do anything in the house....doesnt even pick up after himself! He doesnt play with the kids, never walks the dogs or even care if the dogs have food and water. I do it all!!! If I dont do it, it will never get done. 
I have to nag him to get him to do a simple chore. I dont want to be that nagging wife. 
I used to give him sex whenever he wanted. His feet is sore? I rub it. His back hurts? I massage him. He wants parts for his car? I'll save money for it. I want to be a good wife. I want him to be happy when he comes home from work. 
Basically, I feel unappreciated. I tell him this all the time. I feel like more of a maid than a wife. We rarely go out on dates. The first couple of years in our marriage he used to give me little gifts and cards for my birthday or our anniversary. It was nice and I loved it. He doesn't do that anymore. I don't ask for much, it's not like I want expensive things. I just wish he would express his feelings more (and help around the house!).
I've been feeling sad lately. Every time I see him I get angry. I don't want to talk to him or even sleep in the same bed with him. I reject his advances. I've been sleeping on the couch for weeks now. I don't know what to do or say to him. When I do express my feelings, he thinks it just hormones :crying::crying:


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

How current are your job skills, sounds like you will need them.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Sounds like marriage counseling is in order. To me I'd bet that this started s something simple... maybe you felt he wasn't pulling his weight, you got resentful, he sensed your resentment in the form of rejecting his advances for sex, he got resentful and stopped doing things. Really doesn't matter HOW it started. What matters is whether or not you can move forward from here. And that's where marriage counseling comes in.

Also, checking his t-levels might be in order.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm wondering if he could explain the downward slide in his efforts toward you and the marriage... You both need a "reset". If he hasn't responded to no sex and you sleeping on the couch I'm not sure what he will respond to. Maybe a counselor or clergy person is a way to get communication going without him being dismissive. Someone needs to reach him..... If he really doesn't care anymore then you have to make a decision about your future.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening.
A couple of things to think about. 

You say you "used to give him sex...". Sexual favors / gifts are great, but I think that in a good relationship sex is usually mutual. Was it always something you did for him rather than something you did for each other? 

What sort of job does he have? Does it leave him stressed? Could it be that he thinks that his job is a equal trade in effort for the work you do at home? (I don't know if it is, but might he think that?).


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

What happened six months ago? If that's the time you lost interest in sex the answer must be found six months ago. If you have always been a stay at home mom and his participation in housework has always been about the same, that isn't the real reason you have misplaced your libido. It may be a handy excuse but I believe the actual reason lies in whatever happened about six months ago. How old is your youngest child? Did your husband's work change six months ago? Did something in your life change six months ago? 

If you aren't getting as many presents and signs of appreciation, it might be because you aren't actually behaving like a lover. Nobody waxes a car that has no engine. If you wish to be treated like a lover, you have to actually be one. If you act like you're just a maid or a dependent, that's how you are likely to be treated.


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## chris007 (Jul 15, 2015)

It seems to me that you two need to find a way to communicate in a more productive manner. If that doesn't work, id suggest marriage counseling. Nagging him is not going to work, he will just tune you out. Also, as the previous poster mentioned, using sex as reward/punishment is a really bad path to take.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> What happened six months ago? If that's the time you lost interest in sex the answer must be found six months ago. If you have always been a stay at home mom and his participation in housework has always been about the same, that isn't the real reason you have misplaced your libido. It may be a handy excuse but I believe the actual reason lies in whatever happened about six months ago. How old is your youngest child? Did your husband's work change six months ago? Did something in your life change six months ago?
> 
> If you aren't getting as many presents and signs of appreciation, it might be because you aren't actually behaving like a lover. Nobody waxes a car that has no engine. If you wish to be treated like a lover, you have to actually be one. *If you act like you're just a maid or a dependent, that's how you are likely to be treated.*


:iagree:


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## Kaimyzaree (Jul 17, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening.
> A couple of things to think about.
> 
> You say you "used to give him sex...". Sexual favors / gifts are great, but I think that in a good relationship sex is usually mutual. Was it always something you did for him rather than something you did for each other?
> ...



When I said i give him sex, I dont mean it as a reward. I mean, I love sex too and we'd have sex no matter how bad our day went. Usually every night. 

But I guess everyones right about being resentful. I work hard too, get up at 7am and clean, laundry, cook, feed the kids and animals all day long. I make him lunch when he stops by from work. I am also a cake decorator and make a little cash too. I manage the bank account and keep track of bills. I'm on my feet all day keeping up with chores.

How can I be intimate when I feel so angry towards him? 

He's a mechanic in the Air Guard. And I understand that some days is stressful for him. We've been having financial stress lately. But when he comes home, he's either sitting on the couch or in the garage for the rest of the day. Weekends are the same. 

If for once he looks at a mess a thinks "gee, I should pick that up" I will be doing cartwheels!


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## Kaimyzaree (Jul 17, 2015)

I thought I've been acting like a lover. I shower him with affection. He is still very attractive to me. I do everything for him and tell him I love him every day. 
All I ask is a little help around the house. Feed the animals, or take the kids outside and spend time with them. All I ask is a little appreciation from him.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Start with the laundry. Wash your own and the kids. Leave his.

Then move on to the dishes. Wash your own and the kids. Leave his.

Then dinner. Cook for you and the kids. He can make a sandwich.

Stop the footrubs. Stop the backrubs.

When men are trying to figure out what to do in a sexless relationship, they'll often employ the "180" approach. You're a situation where you're being taken for granted. Try the same strategy. It'll get his attention.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Kaimyzaree said:


> I thought I've been acting like a lover. I shower him with affection. He is still very attractive to me. I do everything for him and tell him I love him every day.
> All I ask is a little help around the house. Feed the animals, or take the kids outside and spend time with them. All I ask is a little appreciation from him.


Hold up. Did I misunderstand you? You said you used to have frequent (almost daily) sex and now you don't and that is mostly your choice. You indicated that has been the case for about six months. Having sex is the bare minimum requirement of a wife or a husband. That is essentially what distinguishes roommates from lovers. If you aren't having reasonably available sex with your husband you aren't doing "everything" for him. You may not even be meeting the bare minimum level of performance you agreed to at your wedding ceremony. 

Again, what changed six months ago? Did he used to be Mr. Helpful around the house and suddenly he stopped? Were you employed outside the home and about six months ago you became a stay at home mom against your will? 

You basically describe your husband as someone who is lazy and indifferent around the house. You describe someone you have to nag to get into motion. That is a description of someone you don't respect. Where there is no respect there cannot possibly be love. You may say loving sounding words to him but I'm not buying that you can disrespect and love the same man at the same time. I don't believe it is even possible. When a person's actions do not match their words, they are lying. They might also be lying to themselves but they are lying.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Kaimyzaree said:


> Been married 8 years now. We have three kids. Our sex life was great up until about six months ago.
> I stay at home....clean and cook and take care of the kids, recently started mowing the lawn and taking out the trash which used to be the only job my husband does in the house. I get frustrated that he doesnt clean. Or cook. Or do anything in the house....doesnt even pick up after himself! He doesnt play with the kids, never walks the dogs or even care if the dogs have food and water. I do it all!!! If I dont do it, it will never get done.
> I have to nag him to get him to do a simple chore. I dont want to be that nagging wife.
> I used to give him sex whenever he wanted. His feet is sore? I rub it. His back hurts? I massage him. He wants parts for his car? I'll save money for it. I want to be a good wife. I want him to be happy when he comes home from work.
> ...


Albert Einstein had it right when he claimed that that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. In your case, you need to stop being his doormat/maid; stop being his mommy; and above all else start treating yourself better. 

*Stop being his doormat/maid:* As a SAHM, your job requirements include general housework (i.e. mopping, toilets, vaccuming, windows,dusting, laundry, cooking) and child care activities during the day so that your husband can maintain a paying job. Your husband's job is to work outside the house to provide financially for the family. This does not mean that your husband gets to treat you like a maid nor does this mean that he can flop his butt down on the couch and ignore his kids when he gets home from work. 

Give him 30 minutes from the time he walks through that door to the time you "clock-out" from your SAHM mode and "clock-in" to married partner. After his 30 minute down time, all childcare and daily cleanup activities should be divided fairly between you and your spouse. Come up with a list of items - dishes, trash, sweeping, picking up kid's toys, kid's baths, etc... - divide them equally between the two of you. If he balks, then proceed with @Fozzy plan.

*Stop being his mommy*: Your husband is acting like a child. You need to communicate with him, and CLEARLY tell him how he's killing your attraction to him with his behavior. Tell him that if he wants you to treat him like a lover, he has to start behaving less like one of the children and more like a grown a$$ adult man who takes action to address his wife's concerns. 

*Start treating yourself better*: Your husband will treat you as well as you allow him to treat you. If you accept his poor behavior towards you, then he'll continue to treat you that way. You need to CLEARLY communicate your boundaries to your husband. 

If your husband refuses to acknowledge your concerns and does nothing to help fix them, then you might want to start snooping for an affair. I hate to bring this up but men typically don't shrug off daily sex to none at all without at least a fight.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kaim,

Time to use short declarative statements to get through his sturdy male skull.

I understand why you don't want to have to 'ask' him to do each and every thing that needs doing. But you should start with that. 

When he gets home, ask him to specifically do something, and when it's finished, one more thing and then thank him, hug him and let him go do his thing. 

Try and get him in the habit of helping. 





Kaimyzaree said:


> I thought I've been acting like a lover. I shower him with affection. He is still very attractive to me. I do everything for him and tell him I love him every day.
> All I ask is a little help around the house. Feed the animals, or take the kids outside and spend time with them. All I ask is a little appreciation from him.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"Every time I see him I get angry. I don't want to talk to him or even sleep in the same bed with him. I reject his advances. I've been sleeping on the couch for weeks now." Now, that sounds like a truthful statement.

"I thought I've been acting like a lover. I shower him with affection. He is still very attractive to me. I do everything for him and tell him I love him every day." This does not.

A woman who feels like she is being a good wife doesn't say she wishes she could be a good wife. Perhaps you used to be and perhaps it isn't your fault but you aren't being what you believe a good wife should be and you haven't been for some time. Run that back to when things changed and let's find out what made them change.


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## Froggi (Sep 10, 2014)

SAHM does not mean you are the maid, servant, child minder and all around do everything gal. 


Just because he is bringing home the paycheck does not absolve him of anything else.


Stop doing for him.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

The problem I have seen with many women is that they expect us men to read their mind, mood and gestures and to know what they are thinking and what they want. This usually does not happen and then they get frustrated and angry.
To make things simple, just tell him what you expect and don't leave things hanging/unclear. If you want him to do the laundry, tell him. Now it is his job and he should find a way to do it. Don't use passive aggressive means like "the clothes are sitting there dirty". My wife does it sometimes and my reaction usually is "Really? Good." Of course, I don't say it, but I think it. If she told me to do the laundry, I would do it, but I don't like being treated like a child with such hinting nonsense. I see many men complain about this, so something to keep in mind.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Please go to counseling.. 

Sometimes you have to look at them in the eyes and tell them.. If we don't fix this I am either going to cheat on you and leave you or just leave you.. 

But you have to mean it.. 

Trust me when I say this.. 

I wish my Exwife would have come to me and spoken to me and not did what she did.. I would have done anything to keep my wife and would have done my share to fix whatever was wrong.. 

I'm divorced with physical custody of my kids. My Exwife pays me child support and I make VERY GOOD MONEY.. I'm in the best shape I have ever been in since before I met my Ex wife 20 years ago.. 

But I miss her no matter the sh!tty things she did to me and my kids.. I know I won this fight.. She was like an arm-less, blind fighter in a boxing match against me.. 

Sometimes you need to protect your marriage from a stupid spouse.. If all it took was walking the dog and doing whatever to keep my marriage I would have done it in a heart beat.. 

Having my Ex wife leave me for another man was utter and sheer pain.. The betrayal was and is unexplainable and the pain was and is unimaginable.. 

Please feel free to have your husband read this.. BTW I'm a NYC Detective of 25 years.. So I have seen my fair share of crazy, pain and suffering..


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

nirvana said:


> The problem I have seen with many women is that they expect us men to read their mind, mood and gestures and to know what they are thinking and what they want. This usually does not happen and then they get frustrated and angry.
> To make things simple, just tell him what you expect and don't leave things hanging/unclear. If you want him to do the laundry, tell him. Now it is his job and he should find a way to do it. Don't use passive aggressive means like "the clothes are sitting there dirty". *My wife does it sometimes and my reaction usually is "Really? Good." Of course, I don't say it, but I think it.* If she told me to do the laundry, I would do it, but I don't like being treated like a child with such hinting nonsense. I see many men complain about this, so something to keep in mind.


lol, i had to laugh at this. 

i wouldnt just think it... my response to those kinds of things is to just agree with the statement. 
"there is a pile of dirty clothes here"
-"would you look at that, you are absolutely correct!"
"it sure would be nice to have a clean kitchen"
-"yeah, i think your right. it WOULD be really nice to have a clean kitchen"


a long time ago, it frustrated me. then, of course, i lost my marbles and started finding it funny. when she started asking, i started doing. well, actually, i TOLD her to start asking...


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## Froggi (Sep 10, 2014)

nirvana said:


> The problem I have seen with many women is that they expect us men to read their mind, mood and gestures and to know what they are thinking and what they want. This usually does not happen and then they get frustrated and angry.
> To make things simple, just tell him what you expect and don't leave things hanging/unclear. If you want him to do the laundry, tell him. Now it is his job and he should find a way to do it. Don't use passive aggressive means like "the clothes are sitting there dirty". My wife does it sometimes and my reaction usually is "Really? Good." Of course, I don't say it, but I think it. If she told me to do the laundry, I would do it, but I don't like being treated like a child with such hinting nonsense. I see many men complain about this, so something to keep in mind.




And many men act like they don't see the obvious. Why not just get off of your duff and take care of it?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Froggi said:


> SAHM does not mean you are the maid, servant, child minder and all around do everything gal.
> 
> 
> Just because he is bringing home the paycheck does not absolve him of anything else.
> ...


We are assuming this is the actual problem when we don't know how long she has been a SAHM. If she has been one for years, but her lack of sexual interest only began 6 months ago, this isn't the true issue. We also don't know how many hours her husband works or the extent of what he does around the house.

I've had two jobs almost all my married life and routinely work over 50 hours a week just at my primary job. I also do quite a bit of housework, yard work, and whatever else needs doing. My wife does not work outside the home and we have no kids. She hasn't worked outside the home for years. She doesn't spend even 4 hours a day on household chores, probably not even two hours a day. Still, my wife occasionally accuses me of not helping out enough. Her statement defies all logic but in her mind, it's never-the-less real. The point is, even though that's her verbal complaint, that's not her true complaint. It's just the way she expresses it.


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

nirvana said:


> To make things simple, just tell him what you expect and don't leave things hanging/unclear. If you want him to do the laundry, tell him. Now it is his job and he should find a way to do it. Don't use passive aggressive means like "the clothes are sitting there dirty". My wife does it sometimes and my reaction usually is "Really? Good." Of course, I don't say it, but I think it. *If she told me to do the laundry, I would do it, but I don't like being treated like a child with such hinting nonsense.* I see many men complain about this, so something to keep in mind.


This doesn't make any sense to me. We don't hint to our children when we want them to do something. We tell them to do it. We give commands to children and expect them to obey. And punish/discipline if they don't obey.

Hinting to a grown up is done EXACTLY BECAUSE we are trying not to treat him the same way as we treat children. We hint at husbands and hope they do it without us asking so that we don't feel like a nag or their mother.

Seriously. I feel like some of you men don't think these things through.

But maybe your mom told you to do your chores by hinting rather than just ordering. IDK. I've never seen a mom do that with kids. We don't expect our children to be smart enough to pick up on hints or responsible enough to do something without being told explicitly what to do.


Also, your response is the passive aggressive part. You know what she's getting at but you pretend like you don't and ignore it until she behaves exactly how you want. 

Ugh. Sorry. That's just a pet peeve of mine. Why should your wife have to ask you to do your share?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I wouldn't have sex with a husband like that either! Come to think of it...I did have a husband like that and as I recall, we didn't have sex very often during these dark days of our marriage.

No, don't be a nag. You're totally right about avoiding the nag thing. MEM is also totally right that men can sometimes be stupid and you have to use short direct sentences with monosyllabic words. I've found, in the past, that writing a list and handing it to the husband (on your way out the door) to be extremely effective. 

"I quit!
1. Clean up after yourself I am not your maid!
2. Participate in raising our children, I am not the governess!
3. I would love to love you but you have stopped treating me as a lover the way you used to. I am not your mother and I do require your efforts in romance.
This is the simple list. I do hope I don't need to provide more details considering I've asked you, told you and shown you. The kids and I are going out to eat while you mull this over and come to a decision. Be home around 9."

And then you keep walking, go have dinner and bring home tired children ready to sleep. Then you may still need to give your husband a few days to think.

If this doesn't work, I suggest you start looking for a job.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Its possible that this is just a case of neither of them realizing how much work the other is doing. Each may think they are incredibly busy, and not understand that the other job is difficult as well.

Counseling may be really helpful. Get them to talk. He may be imagining her sitting at home playing with the kids. She may think he is hanging with his buddies as work. Maybe neither knows just how much work the other is doing.


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## Froggi (Sep 10, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> We are assuming this is the actual problem when we don't know how long she has been a SAHM. If she has been one for years, but her lack of sexual interest only began 6 months ago, this isn't the true issue. We also don't know how many hours her husband works or the extent of what he does around the house.
> 
> I've had two jobs almost all my married life and routinely work over 50 hours a week just at my primary job. I also do quite a bit of housework, yard work, and whatever else needs doing. My wife does not work outside the home and we have no kids. She hasn't worked outside the home for years. She doesn't spend even 4 hours a day on household chores, probably not even two hours a day. Still, my wife occasionally accuses me of not helping out enough. Her statement defies all logic but in her mind, it's never-the-less real. The point is, even though that's her verbal complaint, that's not her true complaint. It's just the way she expresses it.




I get your point, but honestly, with kids it is a whole other ball of wax. 

If he is working the equivalent of two fulltime jobs, then sure, he should come home and flop. Otherwise, no. 

I myself work between 40 - 50 hours a week, and during the school year, I am taking full time college courseloads. I have three kids too. I still have to cook, clean and take care of other things. My job and school time does not give me a free pass to do nothing else. My husband works less than I do and does a hell of a lot less around the house, which pisses me off but I don't have time to argue because the stuff has to be done. The kids do help some. 

Honestly I see this with more men than women. I think it comes from some antiquated notion that the man works soooooo harrrrrd and the it is the little woman's job to treat him like a damn king. Even with young guys this notion is alive and well. It is disgusting.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Nynaeve said:


> This doesn't make any sense to me. We don't hint to our children when we want them to do something. We tell them to do it. We give commands to children and expect them to obey. And punish/discipline if they don't obey.
> 
> Hinting to a grown up is done EXACTLY BECAUSE we are trying not to treat him the same way as we treat children. We hint at husbands and hope they do it without us asking so that we don't feel like a nag or their mother.
> 
> ...


Regardless.
I do my share. She does her share. The problem lies in situations where she thinks I am not doing my share and I think I am doing my share. Or she wants me to do some of her share because she is busy/tired/whatever.

To keep it simple, just come and say "Could you please do this and this". Men are more likely to do it than all this hinting or P-A nonsense. If you want results, just be up front and you will most likely get the outcome you want. If you argur along the lines of "why should I have to..." etc then you most likely will end up frustrated.

Just telling it as it is.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> Its possible that this is just a case of neither of them realizing how much work the other is doing. Each may think they are incredibly busy, and not understand that the other job is difficult as well.
> 
> Counseling may be really helpful. Get them to talk. He may be imagining her sitting at home playing with the kids. She may think he is hanging with his buddies as work. Maybe neither knows just how much work the other is doing.


Hi Richard,

BTDT. There is NO possible way a husband doesn't know what it's like or see the time and effort that goes into raising the kids. A father who has to be ASKED to take the baby for a minute, or take the kids to the park, or cut Suzies damn sandwich is a father who needs a smack down!


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> MEM is also totally right that *men can sometimes be stupid* and you have to use short direct sentences with monosyllabic words. I've found, in the past, that writing a list and handing it to the husband (on your way out the door) to be extremely effective.
> .


What's with all the insulting stereotyping? Maybe its the case that only your husband is stupid?
If I say something like "women can be incredibly thick headed sometimes", all the ladies here will come at me like a ton of bricks.


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

nirvana said:


> Regardless.
> I do my share. She does her share. The problem lies in situations where she thinks I am not doing my share and I think I am doing my share. Or she wants me to do some of her share because she is busy/tired/whatever.
> 
> To keep it simple, just come and say "Could you please do this and this". Men are more likely to do it than all this hinting or P-A nonsense. If you want results, just be up front and you will most likely get the outcome you want. If you argur along the lines of "why should I have to..." etc then you most likely will end up frustrated.
> ...



Correction: You're just telling it like you are.


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

Why is it always the woman who has to adjust her communication style to suit the preferences of the man?

If you're not stupid and you know what your wife is hinting at, then why act like you don't? And how do you expect us to not think you're stupid if you're intentionally playing dumb?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Yes! Since parental responsibility is not common knowledge, she must keep trying to prompt him to be a parent to his children as well. She states that he also neglects the children.

I did not know just putting a roof over someone's head made them a parent. My abusive, alcoholic father put a roof over my head and beat me and neglected me on a weekly basis since I was 5.

And when she tries talking about her emotions, he shuts her down claiming it is just hormones. When she leaves and the children do not want to have anything to do with him because he is a stranger, she will tell him to stop crying, it is just hormones!

Why would she not want to engage with him. So what did the children do wrong for him to ignore them as well? Funny how that part of the post about the children is forgotten.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Nynaeve said:


> Why is it always the woman who has to adjust her communication style to suit the preferences of the man?
> 
> If you're not stupid and you know what your wife is hinting at, then why act like you don't? And how do you expect us to not think you're stupid if you're intentionally playing dumb?


simply put, im not going to try to read my wifes mind. ever. 
if she does not clearly state things to me, im not going to assume anything about it. if i want more sex, i will tell her. less sex might not bother her. just like a dirty kitchen doesnt bother me. 

to answer your first question...

its because we are stubborn. :grin2:


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Yes! Since parental responsibility is not common knowledge, she must keep trying to prompt him to be a parent to his children as well. She states that he also neglects the children.
> 
> I did not know just putting a roof over someone's head made them a parent. My abusive, alcoholic father put a roof over my head and beat me and neglected me on a weekly basis since I was 5.
> 
> ...


The other part is that when she complains, he tells her that her perception is not reality- it's just her perception. Apparently HIS perception IS reality, eh? Her's doesn't count, only his is Real.

A wise man once said that in a good marriage, complaints are taken as Information.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I've found, in the past, that writing a list and handing it to the husband (on your way out the door) to be extremely effective.
> 
> "I quit!
> 1. Clean up after yourself I am not your maid!
> ...


you know whats funny? i often ask my wife to hand me a list of whatever she wants to get done around the house. mainly so that we are on the same page. my list of stuff to do is usually pretty short. hers can get pretty darned long though. 

i like lists. it takes all the ambiguity out of everything. plus, whenever i see that she is overwhelmed, i like to let her take her time on one task while i see how fast i can knock out the rest. 

yep, lists are good. we both use them a lot.
that said, i think that list of yours is not quite specific enough... lol


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

whats up with the riled emotions going back and forth? all this from someone suggesting that she tell him in direct statements what she wants to see him do?


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> whats up with the riled emotions going back and forth? all this from someone suggesting that she tell him in direct statements what she wants to see him do?


I don't know if you were talking about my post, but I have no issues with her giving him a list. It would be nice if she didn't need one, but it sounds like it would be useful. If nothing else, she'd be certain that she'd made her requests clearly.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Hi Anon
Its tough to guess what someone else who isn't in this thread might think. If he has never been closely involved with taking care of (not playing with) the children, he might really not know. 

My father worked, but did essentially nothing to help raise us. Of course that was sometime in the late Cretaceous era but its possible the OP's husbands way of thinking is from then as well.

I have known people who decided to have children then were utterly blindsided by the amount of work they represented. 

I don't know, but whether he is clueless or lazy, it seems counseling is a good next step. 




Anon Pink said:


> Hi Richard,
> 
> BTDT. There is NO possible way a husband doesn't know what it's like or see the time and effort that goes into raising the kids. A father who has to be ASKED to take the baby for a minute, or take the kids to the park, or cut Suzies damn sandwich is a father who needs a smack down!


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Is he possibly depressed? Why the change after 7.5 years? 

It almost sounds like he is on TAM complaining about lack of sex and getting the advice to stop helping with everything. Have you asked him why this change?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@nirvana, you're right and I apologize. I was being sarcastic and clearly it fell flat. I do not think men are stupid. But it is kind of accepted that women tend to not be understood by their husbands while understanding a man is fairly uncomplicated. Why? Because wives tend to communicate emotions while husband tend to communicate facts. Facts are easily understood. But men don't have much practice with communicating thus understanding emotions. Of course this is all very very generalized and should not be perceived as a universal truth.
@As'laDain, lists are always good. But I suggested a very short list because she needs to get his attention in a serious way without overwhelming him with too much. Not the maid, not the governess, not your mommy. Short and sweet. He can think of that for a while and hopefully he will remember the difference between then and now.
@richardsharpe you raise a good point in a way. Men who grew up without a father figure in their lives don't know what being a good husband looks like because they've never seen it up close and personal. But those fatherless men did have a parent and someone washed their clothes, someone made their beds, someone made them go to bed, come in to eat, apologize to their sister, use their inside voice.... We all learn to parent because someone parented us and they either did a good job that we emulate or they screwed it up and we figure out how to not screw up too.

I have no patience for men who can bring a child into this world but can't be bothered to put that child to bed with a bath and a story!



Wolf1974 said:


> Is he possibly depressed? Why the change after 7.5 years?
> 
> It almost sounds like he is on TAM complaining about lack of sex and getting the advice to stop helping with everything. Have you asked him why this change?


The change is in the wife and she is not depressed she is overwhelmed and pissed off.

She write that she's been married 8 years and for the last 6 months she hasn't wanted sex because she resents the hell out of her husband because he does nothing to help her. She writes that up until about 6 months ago she was as interested in sex as he was.


I guess the anger that's been alluded to is because so many men have jumped right onto the fact that she's not putting out. Well so sorry fellas but any woman who DOES put out for a do nothing husband/father needs her head examined!


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## Froggi (Sep 10, 2014)

It is not rocket science to know a child needs to be fed, bathed, taken care of. It is not an excuse to not do so just because you may be depressed, the wife is not giving you nookie, or you happen to have a penis, or were badly parented yourself. 

I suffer from some horrible anxiety and depression. I don't have an option not to take care of my kids. I may not always be perfect and my house may not be either at times, but my kids are cared for.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> @nirvana, you're right and I apologize. I was being sarcastic and clearly it fell flat. I do not think men are stupid. But it is kind of accepted that women tend to not be understood by their husbands while understanding a man is fairly uncomplicated. Why? Because wives tend to communicate emotions while husband tend to communicate facts. Facts are easily understood. But men don't have much practice with communicating thus understanding emotions. Of course this is all very very generalized and should not be perceived as a universal truth.
> 
> @As'laDain, lists are always good. But I suggested a very short list because she needs to get his attention in a serious way without overwhelming him with too much. Not the maid, not the governess, not your mommy. Short and sweet. He can think of that for a while and hopefully he will remember the difference between then and now.
> 
> ...


Did you read what I wrote. I asked if he was depressed. I never said he shouldn't help don't lump me in with that nonsense


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Froggi said:


> It is not rocket science to know a child needs to be fed, bathed, taken care of. It is not an excuse to not do so just because you may be depressed, the wife is not giving you nookie, or you happen to have a penis, or were badly parented yourself.
> 
> I suffer from some horrible anxiety and depression. I don't have an option not to take care of my kids. I may not always be perfect and my house may not be either at times, but my kids are cared for.


Well that's great for you but not everyone is the same. Suppose he is depressed and can't cope....guess the suck it up buttercup technique isn't working so what would you suggest?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

AP,
what i meant by specificity is that she should list the things she wants to see him do. 
personally, if my wife told me to participate in raising our child(which she did at one point) i wouldnt know what she was talking about. play with her more? make dinner for her? wash her clothes? discipline her?
i would understand the message, but without clearly described expectations, i would not know what good parenting looked like to her. when my wife brought this up, i was practically never home because of work. it sucked. 

that said, i have been doing the single parenting thing for the past couple weeks(i really love being on leave), and to me, all those things just make sense to do... so unless the guy is working so much that he is practically never home, i dont see why he wouldn't do them. unless he is just clueless. 

and if he is clueless... he may need instruction! 
we men wont admit it, but we ALWAYS try to consult the cheat sheet at the first sign of trouble... lol

anyway, the way to overwhelm a man is to give him a task that has no clear solution. give him a clear solution and he will have no problems. unless, of course, he lets his own emotions, or pride, get in the way... then he will just shoot himself in the foot.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Sounds depressed, does he sleep a lot?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

As'laDain said:


> you know whats funny? i often ask my wife to hand me a list of whatever she wants to get done around the house. mainly so that we are on the same page. my list of stuff to do is usually pretty short. hers can get pretty darned long though.
> 
> i like lists. it takes all the ambiguity out of everything. plus, whenever i see that she is overwhelmed, i like to let her take her time on one task while i see how fast i can knock out the rest.
> 
> ...


I agree that lists are a good thing. But not all spouses appreciate them. Some consider them being ordered around and nagged. They work for you. They might not work for the OP's husband. Can try it. Maybe she already has. 

1. Clean up after yourself I am not your maid!

Do you really think that an adult needs a list of what this means? Here is the sublist:
a. put your clothes in your hamper. 
b. put your shoes away. Do not leave them in the middle of the living room.
c. When you eat snacks in the family room, throw out any wrappings & left over things, put the dishes in the dishwasher.
c. ... zz. is a list of small things that any adult should know and do. 

2. Participate in raising our children, I am not the governess!
a. spend 1 hour playing with the kids each evening, 2 hours on weekends. 
b. Take them to the park once each weekend for 2 hours.
c. Talk to your kids, answer their questions. 
d. Give your kids a hug when you come home.
e. Read to your children for at least half an hour every day.
f. 3 nights a week put your kids to bed.
g. When they are going to bed, give them a kiss good night, every night. 


 3. I would love to love you but you have stopped treating me as a lover the way you used to. I am not your mother and I do require your efforts in romance.
a. Kiss me good bye in the morning.
b. Kiss me hello when you come home from work.
c. Plan a date every other week. I'll plan the other weeks.
d. Hire a babysitter on the nights that you plan.
e. Remember holidays, birthdays, our anniversary, 
f. Spend 1-2 hours every evening with me after the children go to bed.

I look at that detail list and see nagging. 

These are things that any adult human, male or female, should know to do without their spouse micro managing their every move. 

To me a to-do list is something like: Fix the link in the roof, change the lock on the garage door, mow the lawn weekly.

It's not... pick up your socks, pick up your shirt, now pick up your pants. 

If I have to tell a grown man that he needs to pick up after himself, say hello to his kids and show that he loves them, give them a hug, etc. and that he needs to spend time with me because I'm his wife...

We'll I'm going to assume that he's not an adult mentally/emotionally.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Kaimyzaree said:


> I thought I've been acting like a lover. I shower him with affection. He is still very attractive to me. I do everything for him and tell him I love him every day.
> .


Stop rewarding him for bad behavior.
Don't hate...but be indifferent.

What sucks is some dude will pick up on your phucked up marriage and take you from your old man....and your old man doesn't have a clue of this possibility!









































'


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

What sucks that he will complain that he never saw it coming.

And he should not be surprised either if his children would rather stay with their mother full time because dad ignores them. His actions, whether he is depressed or not, will cause them to naturally detach themselves from him to stop feeling pain.

Sex has the potential to be a great bonding experience and if she does have sex with him, it will only cause her brain's biochemistry to behave in an unhealthy manner. It will end up being a deep love/hate relationship because she will stay naturally bonded enough to him to cause this issue. Parts of her will want to detach to avoid pain and another part of her will be drawn to work things out, to feel loved.

This is where people normally become vulnerable because we all have a drive to seek and feel love. Love is addictive. Children will seek the love of parental figures and no matter how much pain they suffer, they will keep seeking it from abusive and neglectful parents, causing their dysfunction over time. The brain is wired in unhealthy ways and emotional health is stunted.

Adults,like his wife are still capable of change as well, and neglected enough, another person's caring can cause one to stray. Love makes us healthier, deal with pain better, and improves over all life.

He is too selfish to let her and the kids go if he cannot provide that love. She may seek another mate, and the children may seek another parental figure to fill in that hole where he should be.

One is considered wrong, and the other is considered it is what he deserves for neglecting his children. If they find another father figure to attach themselves to, it would not be wrong.

Anyways, I am not suggesting she cheats, since it only complicates matters. She does need to take strong actions to show him that he is the one not in touch with reality. She needs to detach and eventually separate from him to protect herself and the children. She will need to become more indiffrent towards him because he triggers a lot of emotions. The more indifferent we are, the less others actions affect us personally. It is also only a matter of time before the children will seek another father figure and detach from him as well.

His actions are causing his wife's uncoupling from him, and with that, the need to please him goes along with it . Would it also be considered cheating if the children loved someone else as a father instead?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I agree that lists are a good thing. But not all spouses appreciate them. Some consider them being ordered around and nagged. They work for you. They might not work for the OP's husband. Can try it. Maybe she already has.
> 
> 1. Clean up after yourself I am not your maid!
> 
> ...


Exactly. And if that behavior is new after years of not being present then something is going on


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

So, the problem with a detailed list is how it would make the person making the list feel. 

I used to make those lists for my wife. Do this, do this, then do this, step by step. That was back when she was severely depressed and was suffering extremely destructive anxiety. 

I could tell her all day to show me that she loves me, but when she was dealing with those issues, she couldn't break things down into simple actions. Nowadays, we just use lists for the sake of efficiency when tackling projects or planning our day. 


But I still wonder, what happened six months ago?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Froggi (Sep 10, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Well that's great for you but not everyone is the same. Suppose he is depressed and can't cope....guess the suck it up buttercup technique isn't working so what would you suggest?



I suggest she sit down and talk to him one last time. Let him know how she feels. Ask him what is going on. Let him know that not parenting and pitching in with his home is not acceptable. That he either starts participating and pitching in, gets help doing so if needed, or she will have to seek other remedies.

I know people are different. But what if, like me, he did not have an option to just check out? But he does. His wife picks up his slack and then some. 

It is the same as any other disorder or disease. If you do not take steps to correct it, then you are not only hurting yourself, you are hurting your family and others. 

And we do not know if he has been diagnosed with depression, or is ill in another way, or is just being a total butthead. 

So, I say he gets a full physical and psychological workup and go from there. That would be a hill to die on.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Froggi said:


> I suggest she sit down and talk to him one last time. Let him know how she feels. Ask him what is going on. Let him know that not parenting and pitching in with his home is not acceptable. That he either starts participating and pitching in, gets help doing so if needed, or she will have to seek other remedies.
> 
> I know people are different. But what if, like me, he did not have an option to just check out? But he does. His wife picks up his slack and then some.
> 
> ...


I agree with all. Communication needs to take place


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> @nirvana, you're right and I apologize. I was being sarcastic and clearly it fell flat. I do not think men are stupid. But it is kind of accepted that women tend to not be understood by their husbands while understanding a man is fairly uncomplicated. Why? *Because wives tend to communicate emotions while husband tend to communicate facts.* Facts are easily understood. But men don't have much practice with communicating thus understanding emotions. Of course this is all very very generalized and should not be perceived as a universal truth.


No problem AP.
And I like the line above in bold! I will keep that in mind.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Nynaeve said:


> Why is it always the woman who has to adjust her communication style to suit the preferences of the man?
> 
> If you're not stupid and you know what your wife is hinting at, then why act like you don't? And how do you expect us to not think you're stupid if you're intentionally playing dumb?


You have a choice. Don't change. But then don't expect the result you want.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i would run through a list of a whole bunch of things. kinda like an escalation of force, but applied to marriage dynamics. 

first, hint. often that is enough. if it isnt, the next step is direct communication. if it appears to be understood but does not have the desired effect, then the next step is ultimatums. 

the most time should be spent on the clear communication. try every way, just state what you want in clear concise statements that cannot be misunderstood. and a brief back always helps. 

but whatever the case, once you are frustrated with one approach, its best to move on to another. what is that old saying about the definition of insanity?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Did you read what I wrote. I asked if he was depressed. I never said he shouldn't help don't lump me in with that nonsense


Yes wolf I read what you wrote. We aren't communicating very well so let me try another way.

it doesn't seem likely this husband is depressed unless he has been depressed for their entire marriage because the OP writes that he has never been a help with the home and kids and she has always done it all.

What changed was not the husband, but the wife. She. Got. Fed. Up. She is resentful and resentful women don't usually want to have sex with the object of their resentment.

I did not lump you into a category of those who think the husband doesn't need to help.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Yes wolf I read what you wrote. We aren't communicating very well so let me try another way.
> 
> it doesn't seem likely this husband is depressed unless he has been depressed for their entire marriage because the OP writes that he has never been a help with the home and kids and she has always done it all.
> 
> ...


Ahh I gotcha. I must have misinterpreted the Op original post, apologies. I thought the ending of sex was directly in relation to him stopping all the help around the house. So if he has been this way all along and is just at the end of the rope this isn't going to end well.

I do like the list suggestion. I'm type A so I love lists though :grin2:


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

My guess is the love goggles are wearing out. I really do not like the love goggle term though. More like a love filter.

Actions such as creating a mess for her to clean up, helps clogs the filters and lets more crap flow into the relationship.

Perhaps I should use the love kidney as an explanation. Over time, the love kidney is over worked filtering out the crap in the relationship. Marriage counseling and ic is like dialysis. It can help provide life support to a relationship until a new love kidney or a transplant of a different dynamic can work to keep the relationship healthy. Plus the new dynamic or lifestyle change can make a loving relationship last.


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## minebeloved (Nov 7, 2013)

"We have three kids. Our sex life was great up until about six months ago.
I stay at home....clean and cook and take care of the kids, recently started mowing the lawn and taking out the trash which used to be the only job my husband does in the house. I get frustrated that he doesnt clean. Or cook. Or do anything in the house....doesnt even pick up after himself! He doesnt play with the kids, never walks the dogs or even care if the dogs have food and water. I do it all!!! If I dont do it, it will never get done.
I have to nag him to get him to do a simple chore. I dont want to be that nagging wife."

send the kids to camp, send the dog to doggy care. hire a maid to clean the house in the day time for 1 day, when your husband's at work.
Buy some delicious take out for you and your husband.
AND HAVE SEX, LOTS AND LOTS OF SEX, until he is asking for a little break to breathe 
put everything aside and make love.

after you both are done, then talk about how you want to have more sex with him, but it's hard with all the chores.
Sometimes you just want to put everything to the side, and make love.

If you do it like this, he will listen, because he will want more too.
If this doesn't work, then he's probably cheating on you or he's super depressed in his life.
By the sound of it, it sounds like he's depressed. It might be a good idea to do the vacation thing and get away for awhile.
You don't have to cater to his every whim, let him cater to you a little. But you might have to put out the first efforts to get things going.


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## Froggi (Sep 10, 2014)

minebeloved said:


> "We have three kids. Our sex life was great up until about six months ago.
> I stay at home....clean and cook and take care of the kids, recently started mowing the lawn and taking out the trash which used to be the only job my husband does in the house. I get frustrated that he doesnt clean. Or cook. Or do anything in the house....doesnt even pick up after himself! He doesnt play with the kids, never walks the dogs or even care if the dogs have food and water. I do it all!!! If I dont do it, it will never get done.
> I have to nag him to get him to do a simple chore. I dont want to be that nagging wife."
> 
> ...



Yep because just talking like grown ups won't work I guess. You have to put out too.


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## TomCat11 (Jul 20, 2015)

I can totally understand. You are overworked and under-appreciated. Please get counseling before this escalates to the point of no return. He needs to figure out a way to reconnect with you and show you that what you do is very valuable. It's not too late.


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