# Wife cheated while almost black out drunk



## Bruno

Here is the situation.

Married for 16 years, wife barely drank until the last 6. When she gets really drunk, she turns into a sex gremlim, completely out of control. This has happened 4-5 times, and always with me, until recently. 

Such a cliche situation, she was out with a female and male co worker on an overseas work trip. both females are 40, the male was an intern on the project, 24. They all got completely wasted, went back to the 24 year old's temporary flat to "watch a movie". 

My wife said that her lost complete control and started kissing this guy and had a session for about 20-30 mins in another room.

At which point her female co worker, passed out on the couch woke up and started calling my wife's name.

My wife said the two of them (the females) got out of there ASAP. As my wife sobered up she realized what she had done, was completely remorseful, sad, almost suicidal. She is devastated and claims she barely had any control.

I asked her if they had unprotected sex, and she wasn't sure. She hasn't communicated with him since. She did get tested for STD when I asked, that was clean. She thought she was safe, because when they went out they were celebrating the project, she had no attraction to him and thought he was gay.

She claims it was the only time this has happened and will do anything to stay in the marriage. 

It's been two months since she told me and I'm still obviously struggling with it. We are going to start counseling this week. 

I will always love her but am completely gutted. we have 2 kids.

While she didn't go out seeking an affair, cheating is cheating and from what I read, drinking and not understanding your boundaries and situation are not an excuse. 
Lastly she was diagnosed with MS about a year ago and started on meds. Her personality has not changed at all, so I don't that the meds are a factor.

Looking for feedback from a drunk encounter and general advice about staying in a marriage and forgiving.


----------



## MAJDEATH

You need to talk to the female friend and the OM asap. Chances are you were TT and got the sanitized version of events.


----------



## David51

Bruno said:


> Here is the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Married for 16 years, wife barely drank until the last 6. When she gets really drunk, she turns into a sex gremlim, completely out of control. This has happened 4-5 times, and always with me, until recently.
> 
> 
> 
> Such a cliche situation, she was out with a female and male co worker on an overseas work trip. both females are 40, the male was an intern on the project, 24. They all got completely wasted, went back to the 24 year old's temporary flat to "watch a movie".
> 
> 
> 
> My wife said that her lost complete control and started kissing this guy and had a session for about 20-30 mins in another room.
> 
> 
> 
> At which point her female co worker, passed out on the couch woke up and started calling my wife's name.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife said the two of them (the females) got out of there ASAP. As my wife sobered up she realized what she had done, was completely remorseful, sad, almost suicidal. She is devastated and claims she barely had any control.
> 
> 
> 
> I asked her if they had unprotected sex, and she wasn't sure. She hasn't communicated with him since. She did get tested for STD when I asked, that was clean. She thought she was safe, because when they went out they were celebrating the project, she had no attraction to him and thought he was gay.
> 
> 
> 
> She claims it was the only time this has happened and will do anything to stay in the marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> It's been two months since she told me and I'm still obviously struggling with it. We are going to start counseling this week.
> 
> 
> 
> I will always love her but am completely gutted. we have 2 kids.
> 
> 
> 
> While she didn't go out seeking an affair, cheating is cheating and from what I read, drinking and not understanding your boundaries and situation are not an excuse.
> 
> Lastly she was diagnosed with MS about a year ago and started on meds. Her personality has not changed at all, so I don't that the meds are a factor.
> 
> 
> 
> Looking for feedback from a drunk encounter and general advice about staying in a marriage and forgiving.




If she was on meds and drinking she probably got hammered easier that without the meds. People do crazy stuff when that are drunk. MS is an awful disease, i'd ignore the one nighter and get on with living....but that is me


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Meds are a crap excuse, especially MS meds. You said this behavior has been going on, with you, for six years. So, she knew EXACTLY how she was and is when she drinks. She knew too many details to be anywhere NEAR being Black out Drunk. Also, sorry, the "I thought he/she was gay" or any variation is one of the OLDEST excuses in the book regardless of gender. MS is not an excuse to cheat. Poor boundaries is not an excuse to cheat. Mixing meds and drinking is not an excuse to cheat. I'd be asking "what made you decide to try and turn a gay man bi or straight?"

You have no clue what she was looking for an affair or not.


----------



## Bruno

Will do. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## MattMatt

I think marriage counselling might be of help, for you, @Bruno.

Incidentally, where are you in the world? I ask only because sometimes advice offered needs to be modified depending on where someone lives.

Also, you mentioned the OM was living in a flat, rather than an apartment which might indicate UK, Irish or perhaps Australian?


----------



## Evinrude58

She thought he was gay...... 🙄👀😳

Right, now you know she's totally lying, right?

The story doesn't even have any resemblance to something I could say "Yeah, it might've happened that way....."

The bs meter is really showing a strong signal here. It's reading 100% black angus Texas hill country bs. But I think that particular flavor is very similar to bs in other areas of the world. I may need to recalibrate it. Ask her something else and report back. It could be Scottish highland free range bs.


----------



## GusPolinski

Bruno said:


> Here is the situation.
> 
> Married for 16 years, wife barely drank until the last 6. When she gets really drunk, she turns into a sex gremlim, completely out of control. This has happened 4-5 times, and always with me, until recently.
> 
> Such a cliche situation, she was out with a female and male co worker on an overseas work trip. both females are 40, the male was an intern on the project, 24. They all got completely wasted, went back to the 24 year old's temporary flat to "watch a movie".
> 
> My wife said that her lost complete control and started kissing this guy and had a session for about 20-30 mins in another room.
> 
> At which point her female co worker, passed out on the couch woke up and started calling my wife's name.
> 
> My wife said the two of them (the females) got out of there ASAP. As my wife sobered up she realized what she had done, was completely remorseful, sad, almost suicidal. She is devastated and claims she barely had any control.
> 
> I asked her if they had unprotected sex, and she wasn't sure. She hasn't communicated with him since. She did get tested for STD when I asked, that was clean. She thought she was safe, because when they went out they were celebrating the project, she had no attraction to him and thought he was gay.
> 
> She claims it was the only time this has happened and will do anything to stay in the marriage.
> 
> It's been two months since she told me and I'm still obviously struggling with it. We are going to start counseling this week.
> 
> I will always love her but am completely gutted. we have 2 kids.
> 
> While she didn't go out seeking an affair, cheating is cheating and from what I read, drinking and not understanding your boundaries and situation are not an excuse.
> Lastly she was diagnosed with MS about a year ago and started on meds. Her personality has not changed at all, so I don't that the meds are a factor.
> 
> Looking for feedback from a drunk encounter and general advice about staying in a marriage and forgiving.


She'll do anything?

Really?

OK. Time for the drinking and work-related travel to stop.

Oh, and she needs a new job ASAP.


----------



## Marc878

Well it only happens when she's drunk and you're not there.

Hmmmmmm????


----------



## Bruno

All I have is what she tells me. We've had a very open and honest relationship until then. She was extremely remorseful.

I'm not a fool either and I'm not going to make any rash decisions. I'm going to give it a year, go to counseling with her and see if we can get through this. 

If not, I'm going to walk away.


----------



## snerg

is cheating a deal breaker for you?


----------



## Bruno

My emotions are still sore, but I was livid for a month. It's been two months since the cheating now and I am finally able to face it without having to leave the house and walk. Everything I read said don't make decisions when feeling red, and I believe that to be good advice.

Many people online are of the mentality, eff that and get a divorce ASAP. I'm not sure that is best. Some people have huge egos and can't deal with things.

I'm trying to approach this as rationally as I can. We have two kids and they need to be considered.


----------



## Bruno

@MattMatt we've lived in several countries and are in the USA now.


----------



## Malaise

Did she confess out of the blue?


----------



## sokillme

good luck.

Not sure what else you are looking for here.


----------



## drifting on

Your kids do need to be considered, that you and your wife gave a healthy marriage and not a toxic one. What you can do is file for divorce, in a year of you don't like what you see you're done. If you do like what you see then s consequence to bad choices was delivered. Have her served at work also, your first objective needs to be a hard stance. Doing MC is not good now, individual therapy for you both is a great idea. Your wife needs to figure out why she is like this when drunk, even with you, because as you know you won't be there all of the time. 

I would contact the intern and coworker also, the on wont say much but the coworker may spill more. Getting the truth is a tricky deal, most tell you very watered down versions, my wife included. I doubt there is remorse yet, obviously she has regret, but remorse is far different. What is she displaying that you feel is remorse? Crying? Begging? Saying sorry? Saying I'll never do it again? I'll do anything? We can work through this? That's all regret, not one ounce of remorse there. Suicidal? Maybe trying manipulation, did she make a suicide attempt? Did she have a plan? Is she depressed? Guess what, that's regret to, remorse is still far different.

File now, then wait six months for your emotions and feelings to stop flooding your brain. You can always stop the divorce. Make your decision at the six month mark, because if you thought you were livid, wait until rage sets in. Make your decision from a point of strength, not a knee jerk reaction. Also tell your wife that divorce is front and center on the table, until you see how much she grows from therapy.


----------



## Evinrude58

Bruno said:


> My emotions are still sore, but I was livid for a month. It's been two months since the cheating now and I am finally able to face it without having to leave the house and walk. Everything I read said don't make decisions when feeling red, and I believe that to be good advice.
> 
> Many people online are of the mentality, eff that and get a divorce ASAP. I'm not sure that is best. Some people have huge egos and can't deal with things.
> 
> I'm trying to approach this as rationally as I can. We have two kids and they need to be considered.


What makes you think she is remorseful?
Just asking. I agree w you that it's good think hard on such decisions.
I don't think it's ego. I had a cheater. What she did broke me. I had no ego, no pride in myself, no nothing. Everything I had thought about my own judgement of a person's true character was shattered. My faith in people was shaken. I would have taken her back if she'd have stopped cheating. But she didn't. The men with inner strength divorce after being cheated on because they no longer trust their wife. It's not about ego very often, I don't think. Having some dignity and self respect to allow oneself to say some things just won't be tolerated is not a bad thing. Your wife may never cheat again and may be truly sorry. If that's the case and you can live with it and trust her, reconciling is a gift that her. 
It's also a big risk for you. People's past behavior is a good indicator of their future behavior.


----------



## TDSC60

You know what she is like when drunk. She knows what she is like when drunk.

She decides to get drunk while with another man. What did she expect to happen?

My firm belief is that alcohol can loosen inhibitions, but will not change a person's basic character. 

Being drunk is not an excuse nor a reason for bad behavior. The character flaw has to be there buried deep inside waiting to get out.

If you stay together, she needs to stop drinking period if you are not with her.


----------



## JustTheFacts

I believe in R as long as the WS has true remorse. You are wise to take your time and not rush to a decision. Unfortunately part of your future with her will be to watch her like a hawk. Drinking has to go and IC for her. Good luck.


----------



## Bruno

Malaise said:


> Did she confess out of the blue?


She confessed two days later when we returned home from the work trip.


----------



## Lostinthought61

there seems to be a plethora of stories as of late of spouses drinking and letting their guard down and opening their inhibition to cheat, i call bull crap on this. I love how their comeback is i wouldn't have done it if it wasn't the fact i was drunk or had several drinks in me. Short of having a date rape drug dropped in your drink when your not looking, on some level your mind knows what is it is doing, playing the denial of cognitive control to the point you are having sex with someone may work will in movies but in real life that is crap and anyone who falls for that is being deceived in a big way. I am getting sick of these excuses because that is what they are...and i would tell every one of these betrayed spouses if you believe their stories then you really don't know their spouses.


----------



## Lostinthought61

So Bruno, is she admitting that she has a drinking problem and seeking help? because if your drunk enough to have sex with a stranger then you most definitely have a drinking problem or you are someone who wants to cheat but is using drinking as an excuse. take your pick


----------



## GusPolinski

Bruno said:


> She confessed two days later when we returned home from the work trip.


How is her job search going?

Also, which medication is she taking for MS?

(My wife also has MS, BTW.)


----------



## Malaise

Bruno said:


> She confessed two days later when we returned home from the work trip.


Do you think it was guilt or did she suspect the other woman present would have said something?

Has it gotten around the workplace?


----------



## Bruno

snerg said:


> is cheating a deal breaker for you?


When we got married I thought it would be. Now with kids and life, maybe not. Like I said, I'm giving it a year, not making any rash decisions and we'll see how I feel then.


----------



## Malaise

Bruno said:


> When we got married I thought it would be. Now with kids and life, maybe not. Like I said, I'm giving it a year, not making any rash decisions and we'll see how I feel then.


Did you ask her directly : " Wife, we both know how you get when you drink. Why did you get drunk with OM? "


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Your kids do need to be considered, that you and your wife gave a healthy marriage and not a toxic one. What you can do is file for divorce, in a year of you don't like what you see you're done. If you do like what you see then s consequence to bad choices was delivered. Have her served at work also, your first objective needs to be a hard stance. Doing MC is not good now, individual therapy for you both is a great idea. Your wife needs to figure out why she is like this when drunk, even with you, because as you know you won't be there all of the time.
> 
> I would contact the intern and coworker also, the on wont say much but the coworker may spill more. Getting the truth is a tricky deal, most tell you very watered down versions, my wife included. I doubt there is remorse yet, obviously she has regret, but remorse is far different. What is she displaying that you feel is remorse? Crying? Begging? Saying sorry? Saying I'll never do it again? I'll do anything? We can work through this? That's all regret, not one ounce of remorse there. Suicidal? Maybe trying manipulation, did she make a suicide attempt? Did she have a plan? Is she depressed? Guess what, that's regret to, remorse is still far different.
> 
> File now, then wait six months for your emotions and feelings to stop flooding your brain. You can always stop the divorce. Make your decision at the six month mark, because if you thought you were livid, wait until rage sets in. Make your decision from a point of strength, not a knee jerk reaction. Also tell your wife that divorce is front and center on the table, until you see how much she grows from therapy.


Thank for you this thoughtful reply. I'm don't think I am immediately going to file for a divorce, but I certainly am keeping that option open. As for being regretful, she has said she will never do it again, and said she'll do anything. She offered to move in with her mom or sister while we work it through.
As for the suicide, I understand that it could be manipulation. She said she felt that way the 24-48 hours after, but didn't have a plan aside from maybe jumping off a bridge.

She knows divorce is on the table. She clearly has issues that come out when drunk that needs to be explored through counseling. In a way I feel sorry for her as a person. She is a now a cheater, an adulterer. I've known her for 20 years and I know this is eating her. But at the end of the day, she cheated on me, threw our marriage, family, her career and everything into jeopardy.


----------



## Bruno

Malaise said:


> Did you ask her directly : " Wife, we both know how you get when you drink. Why did you get drunk with OM? "


I did ask her that. She said she thought she would be ok because another female was present. Clearly that didn't matter.


----------



## tailrider3

Hmmm...started drinking 6 years ago. Something could have happened then. As with what others have said you need to know your personal "line". For me it is adultery. For you? Just think if you can bury feelings or thoughts in the future when she goes away or even out to lunch. Those thoughts creep into everything. That is a tough road to travel if you ask me.


----------



## TDSC60

Bruno said:


> She confessed two days later when we returned home from the work trip.


Wait. "We returned home". Were you with her on the trip?


----------



## Bruno

Malaise said:


> Do you think it was guilt or did she suspect the other woman present would have said something?
> 
> Has it gotten around the workplace?


Good questions which brings up many more. I've never met either the OM or the Female. It was guilt and regret and she normally has a very strong sense of right and wrong. She also loves her wife/mother role.

The other F and her finished the work trip which was another 2 days, then my wife came home and told me. I knew something was up because she texted me the day after saying she was sad and needed my help. I thought for a brief moment it might be cheating, but also thought it could be and MS flair up. 
I don't think it has gotten around the workplace. Certainly my wife isn't going to say anything and the other F is a very high level person, as is my wife. The OM was an intern and went back to grad school. I haven't contacted either although my wife offered for me to talk with the other female which I think I will after getting feedback here. I've never caught my wife lying. She tells me everything, always has which is why I didn't validate the story. But I will now.


----------



## Evinrude58

I'll say this: the fact that she called you the next day and confessed and felt like she "needed your help"....

I do think that's a good sign of remorse. 

But, you need to be prepared to walk and she her it's not something she gets a pass on.

If you rugsweep this and let it go, I think it will happen again.


----------



## VladDracul

Probably 75-80% of the folks would have kept their mouth shut about an out of town fling. The only two reason they would tell is one, guilty feeling they need to unload, and two, a fair chance the chickens (activity) will come home to roost. Guilt for doing it is the only one of the two half way worthy of a step towards reconciliation.
It seems the wife in this story is using alcohol as her drug of choice. Considering having a future with MS, who can blame her. May even be a bases to experience the wild side while she can.


----------



## Malaise

Bruno said:


> The other F and her finished the work trip which was another 2 days, then my wife came home and told me. I knew something was up because she texted me the day after saying she was sad and needed my help. *I thought for a brief moment it might be cheating*, but also thought it could be and MS flair up.
> 
> Why did you think that? Seems to me the MS would have been the prime suspect.
> 
> 
> I don't think it has gotten around the workplace. Certainly my wife isn't going to say anything and the other F is a very high level person, as is my wife. The OM was an intern and went back to grad school.
> 
> *I haven't contacted either although my wife offered for me to talk with the other female which I think I will after getting feedback here*.
> 
> Paranoid me says this gives her a chance to coach her friend.
> 
> I've never caught my wife lying. She tells me everything, always has which is why I didn't validate the story. But I will now.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno said:


> Thank for you this thoughtful reply. I'm don't think I am immediately going to file for a divorce, but I certainly am keeping that option open. As for being regretful, she has said she will never do it again, and said she'll do anything. She offered to move in with her mom or sister while we work it through.
> As for the suicide, I understand that it could be manipulation. She said she felt that way the 24-48 hours after, but didn't have a plan aside from maybe jumping off a bridge.
> 
> She knows divorce is on the table. She clearly has issues that come out when drunk that needs to be explored through counseling. In a way I feel sorry for her as a person. She is a now a cheater, an adulterer. I've known her for 20 years and I know this is eating her. But at the end of the day, she cheated on me, threw our marriage, family, her career and everything into jeopardy.




Bruno, has your wife told her family that she has cheated? Is that what she will tell them if she stays there awhile? I think the excuse of drinking would be ok if another female is there is a crock. Especially if she hadn't told this female what she is like when drunk. If the female who was with had no idea of your wife's issues, how would she stop anything? If she did know of your wife's issues, it still isn't this persons responsibility to monitor your wife. The fact she also passed out would make it appear both females were highly intoxicated. Was the intern just as drunk? 

If she was black out drunk how does she remember certain events? I would casually ask questions out of the blue to see if her memory is there or if things in her story change. The fact she has offered to have you speak to the female with her is going to yield nothing in my opinion. I would think if she offered to let you talk to the female, you can guarantee your wife has already talked to her. Could have been just for her own clarity on the evening, or that your wife knows she remembers nothing so you'll get nothing. 

My opinion is that the intern is the best source, and you can use that to your advantage. If you find this intern you can ask what happened, if he tells you, that's great. If he doesn't you can tell him you will notify the school, this could lead to some dire consequences as he is an intern representing the university he is attending. Probably wouldn't look good for him to work on a project, get drunk, and have sex with coworkers. Use that to your advantage that you will end his career before it can get started. If your wife objects to getting the interns information then she is protecting him. 

Good luck.


----------



## Malaise

drifting on said:


> Bruno, has your wife told her family that she has cheated? Is that what she will tell them if she stays there awhile? *I think the excuse of drinking would be ok if another female is there is a crock. Especially if she hadn't told this female what she is like when drunk. If the female who was with had no idea of your wife's issues, how would she stop anything? If she did know of your wife's issues, it still isn't this persons responsibility to monitor your wife. The fact she also passed out would make it appear both females were highly intoxicated. *Was the intern just as drunk?
> 
> *If she was black out drunk how does she remember certain events? I would casually ask questions out of the blue to see if her memory is there or if things in her story change. The fact she has offered to have you speak to the female with her is going to yield nothing in my opinion. I would think if she offered to let you talk to the female, you can guarantee your wife has already talked to her*. Could have been just for her own clarity on the evening, or that your wife knows she remembers nothing so you'll get nothing.
> 
> My opinion is that the intern is the best source, and you can use that to your advantage. If you find this intern you can ask what happened, if he tells you, that's great. If he doesn't you can tell him you will notify the school, this could lead to some dire consequences as he is an intern representing the university he is attending. Probably wouldn't look good for him to work on a project, get drunk, and have sex with coworkers. Use that to your advantage that you will end his career before it can get started. If your wife objects to getting the interns information then she is protecting him.
> 
> Good luck.


Good points


----------



## VladDracul

drifting on said:


> My opinion is that the intern is the best source, and you can use that to your advantage.


I don't really understand why its necessary to confirm anything. The wife already admitted doing the guy, unless it would be of value to find out she did him multiple times over the life of the project. If that was the case, she'd likely just kept the whole thing hush-hush. Why would she open that can of worms, unless, of course, someone else was going to let the cat out of the bag. Just do a poly, accept the results, and forget about the intrigue. Nothing he can do to cause her to un-bang the intern.


----------



## Bruno

TDSC60 said:


> Wait. "We returned home". Were you with her on the trip?


typo, she returned home.


----------



## GusPolinski

VladDracul said:


> I don't really understand why its necessary to confirm anything. The wife already admitted doing the guy, unless it would be of value to find out she did him multiple times over the life of the project. If that was the case, she'd likely just kept the whole thing hush-hush. Why would she open that can of worms, unless, of course, someone else was going to let the cat out of the bag. Just do a poly, accept the results, and forget about the intrigue. Nothing he can do to cause her to un-bang the intern.


And it's not like some 24-year-old punk with no compunction about banging married women would be a reliable source of information.


----------



## lifeistooshort

My thought is that the fact that she said she wasn't sure when asked about sex suggests she's at least been truthful.

A liar would've denied and minimized.

I have mixed feelings on the alcohol as an excuse.....i have a low tolerance and have been pretty hammered, but I still know what I'm doing. I do think alcohol can cause one to fail to consider consequences.

Giving it some time to both see if you can move past it and to observe her behavior is a wise move. The fact that you have a good marriage and sex life is a lot to work with.


----------



## lifeistooshort

GusPolinski said:


> And it's not like some 24-year-old punk with no compunction about banging married women would be a reliable source of information.


Its amazing to me, as a 43 year old woman, that a grown woman with a husband, kids, and a good marriage would trash it for a 24 year old punk with nothing to offer.


----------



## sokillme

A lot of this has to be you figuring out if you can live with it. This is the type of thing that doesn't completely go away. You have a different marriage now, so you have to decide if in the end it is worth it. I think some people know they can't right away and that's just it. I think some people really never thought of it. I am of the opinion that if you said your entire life you would never live with it, that changing your mind when you are in great trauma is probably going to haunt you in the end. I wonder if some of the people who a few years later end up ending it are people who just finally stopped making decisions from trauma and are pretty much now back to thinking the way they always did. 

I suggest you try to detach for a while so eventually you can decide if you want to have a new marriage with this women. There is no reason why you have to make up your mind today, if you are uncertain. 

Finally if you are the type of person who needs justice but wants to stay with this women, I think some of the best advice given is to divorce her so she has consequences and then start over with her. In that way she has serious consequences and you won't feel so taken advantage of. I think if I was in your situation that may be the only way I could even think of staying with my wife.


----------



## sokillme

lifeistooshort said:


> My thought is that the fact that she said she wasn't sure when asked about sex suggests she's at least been truthful.


Maybe she knows it's yes but doesn't want to admit it. You never really know with this stuff.


----------



## Bruno

VladDracul said:


> Probably 75-80% of the folks would have kept their mouth shut about an out of town fling. The only two reason they would tell is one, guilty feeling they need to unload, and two, a fair chance the chickens (activity) will come home to roost. Guilt for doing it is the only one of the two half way worthy of a step towards reconciliation.
> It seems the wife in this story is using alcohol as her drug of choice. Considering having a future with MS, who can blame her. May even be a bases to experience the wild side while she can.


Hate to say it Vlad, but I agree with you. She had only been with 2 people in her life, now 3. I was a crazy man before we got married but have been faithful. My number is much greater than hers. She did say, it was a good thing I didn't drink in college.

So this is something that I am going to ask her, do you need to sow your wild oats and if so, I'm out. I didn't sign up for that.


----------



## Bruno

lifeistooshort said:


> My thought is that the fact that she said she wasn't sure when asked about sex suggests she's at least been truthful.
> 
> A liar would've denied and minimized.
> 
> I have mixed feelings on the alcohol as an excuse.....i have a low tolerance and have been pretty hammered, but I still know what I'm doing. I do think alcohol can cause one to fail to consider consequences.
> 
> Giving it some time to both see if you can move past it and to observe her behavior is a wise move. The fact that you have a good marriage and sex life is a lot to work with.


Thanks, we do / did have a great marriage and two wonderful boys. Sex life is up and down. But usually up.

We start therapy tomorrow, but I'm freaking out because she has a long 3 week work trip across two continents in October, then I travel in November. We have set expectations, phone calls every night, only 1 drink, etc. This work trip will be a test. If she fails, then I'm out. Thank you for your reply.


----------



## GusPolinski

Bruno said:


> Thanks, we do / did have a great marriage and two wonderful boys. Sex life is up and down. But usually up.
> 
> We start therapy tomorrow, but I'm freaking out because she has a long 3 week work trip across two continents in October, then I travel in November. We have set expectations, phone calls every night, only 1 drink, etc. This work trip will be a test. If she fails, then I'm out. Thank you for your reply.


If she fails you'll never know, because she'll never tell that truth now that she absolutely knows that her marriage is on the line.

Anyway, is she traveling alone?


----------



## drifting on

Bruno said:


> Thanks, we do / did have a great marriage and two wonderful boys. Sex life is up and down. But usually up.
> 
> We start therapy tomorrow, but I'm freaking out because she has a long 3 week work trip across two continents in October, then I travel in November. We have set expectations, phone calls every night, only 1 drink, etc. This work trip will be a test. If she fails, then I'm out. Thank you for your reply.





If the marriage were important she would do no work trips. Obviously she doesn't feel that way. Sure she can call you at night then head down to the bar and "not remember" again. The work trip would be a deal breaker for me. Same for my wife, she goes to where she met OM for sex and I'm done.


----------



## drifting on

My point is, she removes herself from what had her cheating. One is alcohol, the second is, you are not there. If her career requires travel best of luck, you'd have never known if she didn't tell you. Now she will feel she can go on work trips and just stay quiet while playing the field. Time for her to tell her employer and say no to travel. If she loses her job so be it, tell her it's a consequence for her decision. Then tell her divorce just moved closer to your heart.


----------



## lifeistooshort

drifting on said:


> If the marriage were important she would do no work trips. Obviously she doesn't feel that way. Sure she can call you at night then head down to the bar and "not remember" again. The work trip would be a deal breaker for me. Same for my wife, she goes to where she met OM for sex and I'm done.


Im inclined to agree with this..... this would be a major source of anxiety for me and I I'd tell her to cancel it. 

She can tell her boss that she has a family emergency and can't go. 

If she wants to repair her marriage some tough decisions need to be made..... she can start with this work trip.


----------



## drifting on

Set expectations?? Is her first one, he won't know?


----------



## sokillme

This is going to be a hard road for you, it will be even harder if she is going on 3 week trips. Is the guy going to be on the trips with her?


----------



## Malaise

sokillme said:


> This is going to be a hard road for you, it will be even harder if she is going on 3 week trips. Is the guy going to be on the trips with her?


That guy or another, it won't matter after a few drinks. 

She really shouldn't go.


----------



## MattMatt

Bruno said:


> @MattMatt we've lived in several countries and are in the USA now.


 @Bruno, I think that as a first step, counselling (as a couple and individuals) might be of benefit.

If you are both religious, appointments with a minister of your faith might also be helpful.

By the way, were her drinks doctored in any way? Not a defence, but it's worth thinking about. Has this man been involved in similar incidents, for example?

She needs to be out of that job, or he needs to be removed from his job.


----------



## Bruno

GusPolinski said:


> If she fails you'll never know, because she'll never tell that truth now that she absolutely knows that her marriage is on the line. - true
> 
> Anyway, is she traveling alone?


yes but staying with mutual friends. Although they don't know what happened.


----------



## Bruno

MattMatt said:


> @Bruno, I think that as a first step, counselling (as a couple and individuals) might be of benefit.
> 
> If you are both religious, appointments with a minister of your faith might also be helpful. Yes, she spent time with minister this weekend.
> 
> By the way, were her drinks doctored in any way? Not a defence, but it's worth thinking about. Has this man been involved in similar incidents, for example? Not sure about the answers to these.
> 
> She needs to be out of that job, or he needs to be removed from his job.


He was an intern and is out of the job now. She continues to lead a large team. The only other person that knows is the Other female.


----------



## Andy1001

Bruno said:


> yes but staying with mutual friends. Although they don't know what happened.


Why don't you tell them if you think you can trust them to be discreet.They can keep an eye on your wife for you.


----------



## MattMatt

Bruno said:


> He was an intern and is out of the job now. She continues to lead a large team. The only other person that knows is the Other female.


In effect, she abused her position of trust, so perhaps she should not be in a leadership role?


----------



## VladDracul

GusPolinski said:


> And it's not like some 24-year-old punk with no compunction about banging married women would be a reliable source of information.


A tough test. Pick the one guy in the photo of young men with the compunction to not bang a married woman if he could get away with it.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Bruno said:


> Thanks, we do / did have a great marriage and two wonderful boys. Sex life is up and down. But usually up.
> 
> We start therapy tomorrow, but I'm freaking out because she has a long 3 week work trip across two continents in October, then I travel in November. We have set expectations, phone calls every night, *only 1 drink*, etc. This work trip will be a test. If she fails, then I'm out. Thank you for your reply.


 For her that is 1 drink too many. She needs to quit the alcohol ...for good ... period. I agree with some of the other posters , she should forgo the trip. You need to harden up a bit on your expectations and your boundaries.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

For many reasons your wife should not be going on ANY business for a minimum of one year. Let me ask you, what safeguards are in place? 

A phone call every night.
Only one drink.

Now, I'm sure you know just how easy it would be to simply tear this apart and ridicule the safeguards you mentioned. I won't, instead I'm going to ask you questions you need to ask your wife. Also, your wife does know that you have absolutely no trust in her now, right? 

1) Once you call me, how are you going to assure me you you won't hang up and go to the bar? 
2) How will I know you haven't had three drinks when you call me and that you are not in someone's room well on your way to drunk? 
3) How will I know you are alone in your own room when you call me nude and with OM #2?
4) Woukd you allow myself to go on another business trip where you couldn't be my warden and trust that I will act appropriately?
5) Do you not realize that you have abused your position in the company?
6) How do you know the Other female won't report you if you have a disagreement? 
7) On this trip, have you thought of the repercussions this will cause me home alone wondering if you become drunk again?
8) If it happens again how will I ever know, you now know I will divorce so you will just lie?
9) Today, you go into your bosses office, you tell him that if need be, you will quit if you have any travel for the next year.
10) What exactly have you done to grow as a person to not become this person again in such a short amount of time?

Just my opinion Bruno, even if she has to get a new job, but she safeguards the marriage today. That means she may only go with you and to places that have no alcohol. There is no way, even if in therapy twice a week, that she has grown enough to be allowed to travel, period. It's either you get tough now or have a tougher going when she gets back and says it happened again. Oh, guess what, she will remember less about the second time too.


----------



## dianaelaine59

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> 
> 
> For many reasons your wife should not be going on ANY business for a minimum of one year. Let me ask you, what safeguards are in place?
> 
> 
> 
> A phone call every night.
> 
> Only one drink.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I'm sure you know just how easy it would be to simply tear this apart and ridicule the safeguards you mentioned. I won't, instead I'm going to ask you questions you need to ask your wife. Also, your wife does know that you have absolutely no trust in her now, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Once you call me, how are you going to assure me you you won't hang up and go to the bar?
> 
> 2) How will I know you haven't had three drinks when you call me and that you are not in someone's room well on your way to drunk?
> 
> 3) How will I know you are alone in your own room when you call me nude and with OM #2?
> 
> 4) Woukd you allow myself to go on another business trip where you couldn't be my warden and trust that I will act appropriately?
> 
> 5) Do you not realize that you have abused your position in the company?
> 
> 6) How do you know the Other female won't report you if you have a disagreement?
> 
> 7) On this trip, have you thought of the repercussions this will cause me home alone wondering if you become drunk again?
> 
> 8) If it happens again how will I ever know, you now know I will divorce so you will just lie?
> 
> 9) Today, you go into your bosses office, you tell him that if need be, you will quit if you have any travel for the next year.
> 
> 10) What exactly have you done to grow as a person to not become this person again in such a short amount of time?
> 
> 
> 
> Just my opinion Bruno, even if she has to get a new job, but she safeguards the marriage today. That means she may only go with you and to places that have no alcohol. There is no way, even if in therapy twice a week, that she has grown enough to be allowed to travel, period. It's either you get tough now or have a tougher going when she gets back and says it happened again. Oh, guess what, she will remember less about the second time too.




He will never know what she's doing, he's not there. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> For many reasons your wife should not be going on ANY business for a minimum of one year. Let me ask you, what safeguards are in place?
> 
> A phone call every night.
> Only one drink.
> 
> Now, I'm sure you know just how easy it would be to simply tear this apart and ridicule the safeguards you mentioned. I won't, instead I'm going to ask you questions you need to ask your wife. Also, your wife does know that you have absolutely no trust in her now, right?
> 
> 1) Once you call me, how are you going to assure me you you won't hang up and go to the bar?
> 2) How will I know you haven't had three drinks when you call me and that you are not in someone's room well on your way to drunk?
> 3) How will I know you are alone in your own room when you call me nude and with OM #2?
> 4) Woukd you allow myself to go on another business trip where you couldn't be my warden and trust that I will act appropriately?
> 5) Do you not realize that you have abused your position in the company?
> 6) How do you know the Other female won't report you if you have a disagreement?
> 7) On this trip, have you thought of the repercussions this will cause me home alone wondering if you become drunk again?
> 8) If it happens again how will I ever know, you now know I will divorce so you will just lie?
> 9) Today, you go into your bosses office, you tell him that if need be, you will quit if you have any travel for the next year.
> 10) What exactly have you done to grow as a person to not become this person again in such a short amount of time?
> 
> Just my opinion Bruno, even if she has to get a new job, but she safeguards the marriage today. That means she may only go with you and to places that have no alcohol. There is no way, even if in therapy twice a week, that she has grown enough to be allowed to travel, period. It's either you get tough now or have a tougher going when she gets back and says it happened again. Oh, guess what, she will remember less about the second time too.


I appreciate all of the honest feedback about the travel and drinking. She clearly has a problem and needs to face it.
As for the travel and a new job, her job provides the health care and having MS is a big thing. We've both traveled for work our entire careers and this has never been an issue. 

I am approaching this as starting over. The marriage we had is in the past and if we want a new one, then we can go down that path. I understand I hold all the cards. In my mind I've already decided to give it a year and see 1. how I feel and 2. how has she responded. 
You ask very valid questions and I will ask her some of those as well as many others.

My parents got divorced and it was brutal and I'd feel bad for the kids. I'd even be willing to gut it out for a few years just for them. Anyway..

Thank you for everyone's consideration. Off to therapy tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes.


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> Here is the situation.
> 
> Married for 16 years, wife barely drank until the last 6. When she gets really drunk, she turns into a sex gremlim, completely out of control. This has happened 4-5 times, and always with me, until recently.
> 
> Such a cliche situation, she was out with a female and male co worker on an overseas work trip. both females are 40, the male was an intern on the project, 24. They all got completely wasted, went back to the 24 year old's temporary flat to "watch a movie".
> 
> My wife said that her lost complete control and started kissing this guy and had a session for about 20-30 mins in another room.
> 
> At which point her female co worker, passed out on the couch woke up and started calling my wife's name.
> 
> My wife said the two of them (the females) got out of there ASAP. As my wife sobered up she realized what she had done, was completely remorseful, sad, almost suicidal. She is devastated and claims she barely had any control.
> 
> I asked her if they had unprotected sex, and she wasn't sure. She hasn't communicated with him since. She did get tested for STD when I asked, that was clean. She thought she was safe, because when they went out they were celebrating the project, she had no attraction to him and thought he was gay.
> 
> She claims it was the only time this has happened and will do anything to stay in the marriage.
> 
> It's been two months since she told me and I'm still obviously struggling with it. We are going to start counseling this week.
> 
> I will always love her but am completely gutted. we have 2 kids.
> 
> While she didn't go out seeking an affair, cheating is cheating and from what I read, drinking and not understanding your boundaries and situation are not an excuse.
> Lastly she was diagnosed with MS about a year ago and started on meds. Her personality has not changed at all, so I don't that the meds are a factor.
> 
> Looking for feedback from a drunk encounter and general advice about staying in a marriage and forgiving.


So she chose to lose control with this guy, right. 

She knows what she does when she drinks like that. 

She knew that she was with him. 

So she ties one on and ****s the hell out of him, knowing the entire time what she is doing. 

You really stayed with her after that?

If she wanted to stay faithful to you she would have never have touched a drop when she was away from you. She wanted to party knowing full well what would be the results. 

I won't even guess at what she was thinking at the time.


----------



## Vinnydee

When are you guys going to realize that cheating when drunk is the number one excuse and most times untrue. No wife is going to tell you that she had sex with another guy willingly, or because she needed a man to have sex with better than you, or that she wants sex with other men. She is going to claim that she had no control over it. I have heard that excuse twice and each time found out it was not true at all. Sure they had drinks but they were fully aware of what they were doing. 

What do you think you do now? You may forgive but you are never going to forget. Men tend to cling to straws rather than accept the truth. They do not want to think that their wives wanted to, and enjoyed sex with another man. It is far better to think she had no control over her actions. So now every time she goes out, you know that every time she drinks too much, she will have sex with other men. Your stomach will be in knots when she does something out of the usual, works late, takes a business trip ( wives go wild on business trips. I have travelled a lot) or is otherwise not with you. When you have a big fight you will bring it up. She may resent your mistrust of her or she will get better at cheating. The number one thing to know is whether your spouse will cheat again. She has to take responsibility for her actions. If she hides behind being drunk, well, read the article below. I have had sex with married women, none were drunk. One cheated for 25 years and the other for 10. Their husbands never got suspicious. They were like pros. Had all the ways to not get caught, motels that rented by the hour, etc.. I have been cheated on twice. The first one I cut loose. The second one swore she would never cheat again but in a few months I found out that she was cheating and even had sex with all three of my friends. If I was not told this I would never have known. She never did anything to make me suspicious. I learned my lesson.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-marriage-therapists-weigh-in_us_57e9a7e3e4b0c2407cd8d729


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> My emotions are still sore, but I was livid for a month. It's been two months since the cheating now and I am finally able to face it without having to leave the house and walk. Everything I read said don't make decisions when feeling red, and I believe that to be good advice.
> 
> Many people online are of the mentality, eff that and get a divorce ASAP. I'm not sure that is best. Some people have huge egos and can't deal with things.
> 
> I'm trying to approach this as rationally as I can. We have two kids and they need to be considered.


Only good advice if you are willing to tuck tail and eat a shet sandwich. You need time away from her. Send her to family to stay for awhile. She needs to see what it's like it you to divorce. 

Do not rug sweep this. 

The friend needs to go. 

The job needs to go. 

She knew what she was doing. No excuse.


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> I did ask her that. She said she thought she would be ok because another female was present. Clearly that didn't matter.


This is a right out lie on her part. 

Why did she wait until she was on a trip to get drunk away from you? The easier to cover it up. 

The guilt just over came her and she confessed.


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> Good questions which brings up many more. I've never met either the OM or the Female. It was guilt and regret and she normally has a very strong sense of right and wrong. She also loves her wife/mother role.
> 
> The other F and her finished the work trip which was another 2 days, then my wife came home and told me. I knew something was up because she texted me the day after saying she was sad and needed my help. I thought for a brief moment it might be cheating, but also thought it could be and MS flair up.
> I don't think it has gotten around the workplace. Certainly my wife isn't going to say anything and the other F is a very high level person, as is my wife. The OM was an intern and went back to grad school. I haven't contacted either although my wife offered for me to talk with the other female which I think I will after getting feedback here. I've never caught my wife lying. She tells me everything, always has which is why I didn't validate the story. But I will now.


You honestly think that they don't have their story straight for you?

Don't waste your time with the co worker. They have talked and she knows exactly what to say to you.


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> Thanks, we do / did have a great marriage and two wonderful boys. Sex life is up and down. But usually up.
> 
> We start therapy tomorrow, but I'm freaking out because she has a long 3 week work trip across two continents in October, then I travel in November. We have set expectations, phone calls every night, only 1 drink, etc. This work trip will be a test. If she fails, then I'm out. Thank you for your reply.


Should be NO ****ing drink. No if, ands or buts about it. She shouldn't be going on any more work trips. 

This is what sweeping under the rug looks like. Have fun being unable to sleep every night she is gone, wondering if she had one to many.


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> He was an intern and is out of the job now. She continues to lead a large team. The only other person that knows is the Other female.


The two females and a male co worker. 

Are you sure it wasn't a threesome? All three of them where there right?


----------



## ABHale

MattMatt said:


> In effect, she abused her position of trust, so perhaps she should not be in a leadership role?


Are you kidding. That kid had the time of his life with those two. He's back in school telling all his friends where he work and what he did with those two. 

Your wife is going to have a rep. I wonder how many apps they will receive for next summer.


----------



## Decorum

Bruno,
I am sorry for what you are going through. 
You sound like a very decent man

I am still digesting your story so I don"t have much to add for now, except to mention that my wife has faced the exacerbations of MS for over 20 years.

She was diagnosed the year our youngest was born (she is now 22, we have 4 children).

If you ever want to compare notes on it feel free to PM me.

I really wish you both well.
Take care.


----------



## MattMatt

ABHale said:


> Are you kidding. That kid had the time of his life with those two. He's back in school telling all his friends where he work and what he did with those two.
> 
> Your wife is going to have a rep. I wonder how many apps they will receive for next summer.


Even so, she was older and she should have known what she was doing. In fact, she probably did.

And why would someone 'accidentally' drink large quantities of alcohol if they knew they would be in a situation where inhibitions would be lowered and where "problematic behaviour" might ensue?

Because, when it comes down to it, under those given circumstances, there is no such thing as someone "accidentally" drinking large quantities of alcohol. Oh, that's what they tell themselves and others, but it is not true. And yes, I know this because that was the lie I told myself under an analogous situation. But it was all a load of ****. I knew what was going to happen if I drank a lot of alcohol. But I went ahead and did it, anyway.


----------



## BobSimmons

Vinnydee said:


> When are you guys going to realize that cheating when drunk is the number one excuse and most times untrue. No wife is going to tell you that she had sex with another guy willingly, or because she needed a man to have sex with better than you, or that she wants sex with other men. She is going to claim that she had no control over it. I have heard that excuse twice and each time found out it was not true at all. Sure they had drinks but they were fully aware of what they were doing.
> 
> What do you think you do now? You may forgive but you are never going to forget. Men tend to cling to straws rather than accept the truth. They do not want to think that their wives wanted to and enjoyed sex with another man. It is far better to think she had no control over her actions. So now every time she goes out you know that every time she drinks too much, she will have sex with other men. Your stomach will be in knots when she does something out of the usual, works late, takes a business trip ( wives go wild on business trips. I have travelled a lot) or is otherwise not with you. When you have a big fight you will bring it up. She may resent your mistrust of her or she will get better at cheating. The number one thing to know that your spouse will not cheat again is to take responsibility for her actions. Saying she is blind drunk is not taking responsibility. I have had sex with married women, none were drunk. I have been cheated on twice. The first one I cut her louse. The second one swore she would never cheat again but in a few months I found out that she was cheating and even had sex with all three of my friends. I learned my lesson.
> 
> Once A Cheater, Always A Cheater? Marriage Therapists Weigh In | HuffPost


Heh. This

OP seems to think it was a quiet night of drinking with everybody innocently going back to watch a movie then hot and heavy banging..

and not

All three meeting for drinks and there being a slight spark between OP's wife and the guy

As the night progresses, the attraction becomes evident and some form of initiation towards fleshing it out takes place, flirting touching for now it's playful but both parties are entertaining the idea of some sort of physical contact so..

Isolate, it's always the name of the game, get the person alone now solid interest has been shown, so the suggestion of going to the house and watching the "movie"

They wait until the lady passes out or just leave her to watch some TV while they have sex.

Very much planned. She maybe guilty or maybe she felt it might come out or even that she feels she needs to have uninhibited sex while she still has the ability.

But it was very much planned. As misleading as the title of this thread is she was not blackout drunk. When opportunity presented itself she took it.

Doesn't need therapy or shrinks.

Just an acceptance she wanted to have some fun and had it.


----------



## ButtPunch

BobSimmons said:


> Heh. This
> 
> OP seems to think it was a quiet night of drinking with everybody innocently going back to watch a movie then hot and heavy banging..
> 
> and not
> 
> All three meeting for drinks and there being a slight spark between OP's wife and the guy
> 
> As the night progresses, the attraction becomes evident and some form of initiation towards fleshing it out takes place, flirting touching for now it's playful but both parties are entertaining the idea of some sort of physical contact so..
> 
> Isolate, it's always the name of the game, get the person alone now solid interest has been shown, so the suggestion of going to the house and watching the "movie"
> 
> They wait until the lady passes out or just leave her to watch some TV while they have sex.
> 
> Very much planned. She maybe guilty or maybe she felt it might come out or even that she feels she needs to have uninhibited sex while she still has the ability.
> 
> But it was very much planned. As misleading as the title of this thread is she was not blackout drunk. When opportunity presented itself she took it.
> 
> Doesn't need therapy or shrinks.
> 
> Just an acceptance she wanted to have some fun and had it.


Exactly

Black out drunk.......Who says?

The Cheater

Give me a break


----------



## harrybrown

She is still lying to you.

She had an affair with the young intern.

He is no longer around, but she did enjoy the young man.

is she pregnant? no stds, I hope.

How would she like it if you had a romp or three with someone 20 years younger?

No problem? you have an open marriage.

good luck to you and your kids.


----------



## Bruno

This is intended to be a reply to all those that have been concerned and posted. I appreciate most of the feedback, although some of it is fairly nasty.

As for my wife, She did spend the weekend with her mom and sister, celebrating a close family friend's 50th year of being a minister. She said it was good for her soul and that she needed it.
Before we went to the counselor yesterday I went off on her, and wasn't nice. I wasn't calling her names but just kind of lost it. So we went to the counselor under that backdrop. 

At the counselor, 1 hour turned into over 2. 

As I mention in the first post, we've been married 16 years, 2 kids. We both travel extensively for work. We both have great careers and have lived all over the world. We've always had open and honest communication with each other and never strayed until she did 2 months ago. I've known her for almost 25 years and she is honest to a fault. She owns it and is remorseful. During counselling she was nearly inconsolable. After she explained the cheating, for the first time I really felt her pain. She obviously made a horrible mistake and hurt herself, her marriage and her husband. 

Apologizing to me for the pain she has caused and also seeking forgiveness and trying to move on. She agreed to everything asked and the counselor backed me up and said that is the least she could do.

The counselor then said that my wife needed to forgive herself. This doesnt' mean that what she did ok, and it certainly isn't a license to do it again, but she needs to move and and find closure.

We also talked about what the betrayed spouse goes through, the ups and downs, the pain and how to deal with it.If we are going to give the marriage a chance, she said I'd need to stop punishing my wife as that won't help anyone.

As I mentioned earlier, I going to give it a year and see if things improve. The OM is not working on the project anymore and I'm going to meet up with the OF this week or next.

I'm not going to throw away 16 years of marriage for 1 mistake, but if it happens again, I will walk away as I didn't sign up for that. As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


----------



## CuddleBug

Marc878 said:


> Well it only happens when she's drunk and you're not there.
> 
> Hmmmmmm????




Exactly.........


I think deep down she loves sex and drinking loosens her up to let her true self go. This is who she really is, a woman who wants and loves sex.


----------



## eric1

It's good that you are going to counseling. Personally I would use those sessions to dig into why she did what she did. The alcohol had nothing to do with it, she went to his place with one intention.

You're not getting over this unless you get over that. You're not rebuilding until you find trust again and you're not doing that without that answer.

Point blank - until you understand that you have no real trust that she hit done it before or will do it again.


----------



## Malaise

Bruno said:


> She obviously made a horrible mistake and hurt herself, her marriage and her husband.


The 'mistake' wasn't one. She made a choice to go to his place with her friend and get wasted. She knew, as you have said, how she gets. She did it anyway counting on her friend to keep her honest.

How weak willed is she that she needs her friend there to keep her on the straight and narrow?


----------



## Satya

@Bruno, I understand that you want to "renew" the marriage and give it a year.

I recommend that you stay very steadfastly to that timetable and WATCH her ACTIONS. Crying, being inconsolable, being sorry are words. You may appreciate them, but what she does to earn your trust back is paramount.

I will say, that IMO, your "renewed" marriage is lacking a vital component, which is that your wife appears to have nothing to change or even renew. She keeps her job, she keeps her position of seniority, she keeps your support and affection, she keeps her actions under wraps (no exposure). That's sending a very rugsweeping message to her, like you are so desperate to keep your 16 years of history that you'll not risk upsetting the apple cart and possibly losing her and/or the relationship. I don't care how remorseful she sounds or how lucky she says she is to still have your love, YOUR actions also speak volumes to her. She has nothing to fear. 

The fear is misplaced, because it comes from you, not her. You are going into damage repair mode when she is the one who must assume that role while you quietly watch. Bending over backwards to save someone when they need to save themselves... That is codependency.


----------



## Malaise

Satya said:


> @Bruno, I understand that you want to "renew" the marriage and give it a year.
> 
> I recommend that you stay very steadfastly to that timetable and WATCH her ACTIONS. Crying, being inconsolable, being sorry are words. You may appreciate them, but what she does to earn your trust back is paramount.
> 
> I will say, that IMO, your "renewed" marriage is lacking a vital component, which is that your wife appears to have nothing to change or even renew. She keeps her job, she keeps her position of seniority, she keeps your support and affection, she keeps her actions under wraps (no exposure). That's sending a very rugsweeping message to her, like you are so desperate to keep your 16 years of history that you'll not risk upsetting the apple cart and possibly losing her and/or the relationship. I don't care how remorseful she sounds or how lucky she says she is to still have your love, YOUR actions also speak volumes to her. She has nothing to fear.
> 
> The fear is misplaced, because it comes from you, not her. You are going into damage repair mode when she is the one who must assume that role while you quietly watch. Bending over backwards to save someone when they need to save themselves... That is codependency.


Exactly. 

What are her consequences , aside from puffy eyes?


----------



## syhoybenden

Crying doesn't mean anything.

Anybody, and I mean everybody, can teach themselves to cry as an act of will. Acting is easy.


----------



## Taxman

You, her and your MC need to come down with a list of consequences. The last on the list, should be bolded, and discussed; if in one year you are still uncomfortable with her choices, then you will divorce. Consequences? Anything from her staying out of the house for a few months, to you going on dates with other women. Yeah, that is a consequence. Many reject it. It has been used as a jumping off point to say that the old marriage is dead, and each partner sampled others before committing to a new marriage.

I need to say this to any betrayed spouse, and I usually get a lot of flack for this, BUT...your wayward spouse has absolutely no idea what you are going through. Very very few actually can put themselves into your shoes. My wife had a solution, she put me into her shoes. At first she suggested , and then carried through sleeping with someone else. As she put it, I had humiliated her, I had stolen her femininity and desireability. She needed to get that back. The only way forward for her was for me to experience the absolute devastation that I had brought to her.


----------



## Satya

syhoybenden said:


> Crying doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Anybody, and I mean everybody, can teach themselves to cry as an act of will. Acting is easy.


Agreed. 

And she could legitimately FEEL remorseful. I'm not invalidating her feelings. I'm just saying that accepting her feelings alone is like consuming a marshmallow on an empty stomach when you're malnourished. Lots of air, some calories, little substance, no protein. The substance is in the form of demonstrable, remorseful actions.


----------



## Edmund

Bruno,
To counterbalance the majority opinion here, I would say if the circumstances are essentially what has been reported in this thread, the right thing to do is to forgive her. The facts reported here are, not an EA/PA, no ILYBNILWY, no lead-up, alcohol involved with known previous drunk sexual behavior, immediate confession, guilt, remorse, OM is out of her life, you have children, she has serious lifetime disease (MS). She made a bad judgement mistake.
You should try to keep this marriage. Get IC to help with coping.
I wish you both peace.


----------



## Noble1

Did she tell her family what she did?

Does anyone else know about what she did?

If not, why not?

It may seem harsh but the more people who know it will be better for you and your wife in the end so there are more eyes on her and her behaviors.

Good luck.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

I understand exactly how you are feeling, I've been in your shoes so to speak. My wife cheated with a coworker in the sixteenth year of our marriage. Perhaps some of it could be wording on your part, but I see some problems that are going to come back and haunt you. I suggest you read Satya's post multiple times, your wife has no consequence given to her by anyone involved. That will be a huge problem down the road for you, and again, not her. 

I'm not trying to be harsh, mean, cruel, or nasty, my intentions are to point out differences and support you. I believe your therapist is dead wrong, the biggest component in the beginning is telling of how you feel. Most of this will be anger on your part, but they are also YOUR feelings and emotions. If it comes across as punishment that's too bad, you don't consider her feelings when venting yours so to speak. Had she not DECIDED to have an affair or cheat you wouldn't be in this mess. If she knew how she behaved when drunk then she had no business getting drunk. This is on her, and you have every damn right to voice your anger, your pain, your emotions AS YOU SEE FIT, if you are not being cruel. You don't need to call her names, but to say in therapy I want to know just how you decided having sex with an intern was a good choice is acceptable. It's punishing but it's also your feelings, you don't push those feelings down to get better, instead you have that raw communication that will hurt BOTH of you. 

So you tell your therapist that all will be discussed during forgiveness, and you will not be cruel, but you damn well will get your feelings and emotions out in the open. That is the concept of therapy, to discuss hurtful feelings and emotions in a therapeutic setting. You also need to discuss this at home, for a specified length of time or until defensiveness and anger emerge. We did 30 minutes twice a week and many times had to stop. 

Next, your wife didn't make a mistake, she chose poorly in a series that led to where you are now. She knew what happens when she drinks to much well before this trip, so it wasn't an oops. Instead she CHOSE to drink, she CHOSE to go watch a movie, she CHOSE to be with OM, and she CHOSE to have sex. Not one mistake about this, instead a series of bad choices. I would recommend that your wife not travel for a minimum of six months of being in IC. She can't be trusted with decision making at this point. That's a consequence to her, and if it costs her her job, then say oh well, find another where you can stay home. How are either of you going to have any kind of therapy when she is traveling? Especially for three weeks, to much time away that can cause her to have a serious growth stump. She can't learn without the therapy your marriage will require. Remember, this is in her for her decision making. 

I wish you the best, and I hope you can reconcile, but you can't with her traveling and not getting therapy.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Edmund said:


> Bruno,
> To counterbalance the majority opinion here, I would say if the circumstances are essentially what has been reported in this thread, the right thing to do is to forgive her. The facts reported here are, not an EA/PA, no ILYBNILWY, no lead-up, alcohol involved with known previous drunk sexual behavior, immediate confession, guilt, remorse, OM is out of her life, you have children, she has serious lifetime disease (MS). She made a bad judgement mistake.
> You should try to keep this marriage. Get IC to help with coping.
> I wish you both peace.


No, you do not need to get an individual counselor, your wife needs one. She needs to figure out why she needs to crawl in a bottle to have fun. MS, liquor and meds on work trips is stupid. You do not need to find out why you are angry, hurt or questioning on whether to stay in the marriage or not. You know the reason, she cheated. She didn't make a mistake, she CHOSE to drink and she KNEW her behavior. Sure, I'll agree with bad judgment, but it still doesn't mean your reaction is or was wrong. Nor does it need individual counseling to figure out how to cope. You can do this in marriage counseling.


----------



## Herschel

There are two very important things hat have jumped out to me in your first post.

1. Wife barely drank up until 6 years ago and now she's a raging sex fiend when drunk

2. There is another person (whom she works with) that knows about this 

I get it, you know your wife. She has always been super dedooper honestrr with you. They all have man. We have all felt that way. 

What I see here is a huge change of behavior 6 years ago and then a confession when someone she works with witnessed the event. It doesn't take a genius to put it together that this traveling wife has been getting away with banging other dudes and likely has been coping with alcohol and/or using it to get sexy with you to cover up the guilt and remorse. I know she wouldn't ever lie about any of that, it's why she came clean about the intern she thought was fat but ****ed anyway and her coworker who was passed out drunk found out about.

Hey, a year is a long time. If you want to play that game of keeping up on her and trusting her, that's your call. Remember, even if it was just this one time (I really doubt it) it's not just you that has to forgive her and forget, but she has to do it herself. There are way too many unknowns here and you are putting a lot on the line. 

You say that the two kids matter? How would you tell them to handle this situation? Should they watch you sweat out the rest of your life with your wife? Would you want them to do that? Always wondering. Always fearful. It's not about being nasty, or you not being rash. It's about putting everything into context, see how so many before you went through the same process and realize, this is my life. I can't changed what has happened, but my god, I can control what WILL happen.


----------



## GusPolinski

The “one drink” concession needs to go away — she doesn’t need to be drinking at all.


----------



## Graywolf2

Bruno said:


> She was out with a female and male co worker on an overseas work trip. both females are 40, the male was an intern on the project, 24. They all got completely wasted, went back to the 24 year old's temporary flat to "watch a movie".
> 
> My wife said that her lost complete control and started kissing this guy and had a session for about 20-30 mins in another room.


My son is a JAG (lawyer) in the US Army. A great deal of his time is spent on sexual assault cases. Given these facts your wife would be brought up on charges if she were in the military. She would be a 40 year old superior officer on an official work function who sexually attacked a drunk one stripe 24 year old private.

In today’s environment you had better pray that he doesn’t report her to HR. Her only hope would be sexism. Men tend to like being sexually attacked. If the sexes were reversed it would be an open and shut case. With those facts she would be toast if at some point the 24 year old decided that they didn't like it. 

In the army she would be doing years of jail time, especially if the sexes were reversed. It happens all the time. The possibility of her cheating on you again shouldn’t be her only concern. She’s playing with fire and can get burned in multiple ways.


----------



## TDSC60

GusPolinski said:


> The “one drink” concession needs to go away — she doesn’t need to be drinking at all.


I agree. My wife has a drinking problem. Not an alcoholic, but I saw within the first year of marriage that she could not handle alcohol - in any amount. For the simple reason that she does not realize when she gets drunk. The first time I saw this was our first New Years Eve together. I would caution her because I saw how much she was drinking. She kept saying "I'm OK. I'm not drunk" right up until the time she literally passed out face down on the bed.

I made the rule the next day that she did not drink any amount unless I am with her.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

Have you spoken to your wife after the therapy session? Has your anger consumed you or has it turned to rage yet? What is your wife doing to make you feel safe? Has she spoken to the woman who was with her? Has she told this woman that you want to talk to her? Or has she given you the number so you can contact her on your own? 

Bruno I hope you know your anger is going to get worse. You are going to hit rage, and if your wife or counsellor has a problem with this, tell them to kiss your ass. That's right, your anger is yours to own, but you also need to let your wife see and feel that anger as a consequence. I'm not saying to be verbally abusive, physically abusive, or to call her names, just let her know you are considering ending the marriage. Let her know you are considering exposing this to both families and possibly even her work place. I agree to both parents knowing, and she tells them with you present. As for her job, I considered telling my wife's employer but didn't. My wife was very nervous that I, or OM would tell. 

Best of luck to you.


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> Have you spoken to your wife after the therapy session? Has your anger consumed you or has it turned to rage yet? What is your wife doing to make you feel safe? Has she spoken to the woman who was with her? Has she told this woman that you want to talk to her? Or has she given you the number so you can contact her on your own?
> 
> Bruno I hope you know your anger is going to get worse. You are going to hit rage, and if your wife or counsellor has a problem with this, tell them to kiss your ass. That's right, your anger is yours to own, but you also need to let your wife see and feel that anger as a consequence. I'm not saying to be verbally abusive, physically abusive, or to call her names, just let her know you are considering ending the marriage. Let her know you are considering exposing this to both families and possibly even her work place. I agree to both parents knowing, and she tells them with you present. As for her job, I considered telling my wife's employer but didn't. My wife was very nervous that I, or OM would tell.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


Thank you. The anger comes and goes and then is replaced by sadness. Then happiness for a bit. It's a f***ing roller coaster for sure.

I'm still committed to giving it a year since d day before making any decisions. 10 months to go. the wife has been doing everything she said, but the trust will take a long long time to earn back, I have no illusions about any of it.

Sometimes I just want to file for divorce, other times I think about it and can see myself coming to terms and basically starting the marriage over. I know I can walk away. I'm certainly a marketable person, no worries there. Thanks for the thoughtful responses, they are appreciated.


----------



## sokillme

Bruno said:


> Thank you. The anger comes and goes and then is replaced by sadness. Then happiness for a bit. It's a f***ing roller coaster for sure.
> 
> I'm still committed to giving it a year since d day before making any decisions. 10 months to go. the wife has been doing everything she said, but the trust will take a long long time to earn back, I have no illusions about any of it.
> 
> Sometimes I just want to file for divorce, other times I think about it and can see myself coming to terms and basically starting the marriage over. I know I can walk away. I'm certainly a marketable person, no worries there. Thanks for the thoughtful responses, they are appreciated.


Where is your wife's mind at?


----------



## Mr Blunt

Bruno
*Your situation appears to be a very good opportunity to have your wife make real changes in those weaknesses in her character that need improvement*.. You said that she is really remorseful and She said that she is willing to do anything so put her to the test. That is a great start. First NO DRINKING at all, not even one drink. Alcohol is not a necessity and is often a detriment to marriage and character. Why take a chance?

*Secondly, she must prove for a long time that she is going to do the ACTIONS that you and your counselor suggest*. “Trust but verify” Set a plan of actions for her, do not be mean or vindictive but be firm because *your wife is weak now and needs a strong guidance with her accepting and doing the ACTIONS in the plan.* If you think that it will help you and or your wife than get a post-nup while she is proving her words with actions. If all goes well you can cancel the post-nup but the post nup can work as a very good motivator for her to do the long-term work to get improved or to realize that she will lose more than just your love if she does it again and there is a divorce.

Your counselor seems to be a good one and has given you good advice so far. Yes STOP punishing your wife. I know it may give you release for a short time but it is very damaging to a fragile and shattered woman like you have. *Find a way to release your punishment modes some other way*. It is also very important that your wife start working at forgiving herself; s*he will never flourish into the wife and mother to her potential unless she forgives herself. *She said that her family and the minister were good for her soul…That sounds like one very good start on the beginning of forgiveness.

While your wife did a very damaging betrayal she seems like a woman that has more good than bad. You even said that she has been very open and honest for all of 20 years and that is also a very good sign.
*
Her getting your forgiveness and forgiving herself is one very important key to your R*. Do not expect your wife to forgive herself quickly. My wife has taken over 20 years and she still has not fully forgiven herself but has improved substantially. I am a firm believer that you can forgive yourself in a lot less time than 20 years but my wife likes to play ostrich and will not face the hard parts for a long time. In fact, improving every month, I was able to forgive to a high degree in a few short years. You may forgive her before she forgives herself.

You and your wife will have a lot of emotional highs and lows for several months, maybe even years. However, if you both truly love each other and do the long term work you can have a successful marriage, which will be great for you and your wife and that will also be very good for your children.

*LONG-TERM TIME AND ACTIONS WILL TELL WHAT YOU NEED TO DO FOR THE BETTERMENT OF YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN!*


----------



## Bruno

sokillme said:


> Where is your wife's mind at?


She is also up and down. She is spending the weekend with family again which she needs. When I'm feeling crappy I want to be alone. She needs to feel supported and I'm not at a place where I can provide that. 
We talked on the phone for a while tonight and she is/has been worried about my well being. Kids are with me.
We go back to the therapist on Tuesday.


----------



## Bruno

Mr Blunt said:


> Bruno
> *Your situation appears to be a very good opportunity to have your wife make real changes in those weaknesses in her character that need improvement*.. You said that she is really remorseful and She said that she is willing to do anything so put her to the test. That is a great start. First NO DRINKING at all, not even one drink. Alcohol is not a necessity and is often a detriment to marriage and character. Why take a chance?
> 
> *Secondly, she must prove for a long time that she is going to do the ACTIONS that you and your counselor suggest*. “Trust but verify” Set a plan of actions for her, do not be mean or vindictive but be firm because *your wife is weak now and needs a strong guidance with her accepting and doing the ACTIONS in the plan.* If you think that it will help you and or your wife than get a post-nup while she is proving her words with actions. If all goes well you can cancel the post-nup but the post nup can work as a very good motivator for her to do the long-term work to get improved or to realize that she will lose more than just your love if she does it again and there is a divorce.
> 
> Your counselor seems to be a good one and has given you good advice so far. Yes STOP punishing your wife. I know it may give you release for a short time but it is very damaging to a fragile and shattered woman like you have. *Find a way to release your punishment modes some other way*. It is also very important that your wife start working at forgiving herself; s*he will never flourish into the wife and mother to her potential unless she forgives herself. *She said that her family and the minister were good for her soul…That sounds like one very good start on the beginning of forgiveness.
> 
> While your wife did a very damaging betrayal she seems like a woman that has more good than bad. You even said that she has been very open and honest for all of 20 years and that is also a very good sign.
> *
> Her getting your forgiveness and forgiving herself is one very important key to your R*. Do not expect your wife to forgive herself quickly. My wife has taken over 20 years and she still has not fully forgiven herself but has improved substantially. I am a firm believer that you can forgive yourself in a lot less time than 20 years but my wife likes to play ostrich and will not face the hard parts for a long time. In fact, improving every month, I was able to forgive to a high degree in a few short years. You may forgive her before she forgives herself.
> 
> You and your wife will have a lot of emotional highs and lows for several months, maybe even years. However, if you both truly love each other and do the long term work you can have a successful marriage, which will be great for you and your wife and that will also be very good for your children.
> 
> *LONG-TERM TIME AND ACTIONS WILL TELL WHAT YOU NEED TO DO FOR THE BETTERMENT OF YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN!*


Thank you sharing this. Peace.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

If I may ask, how exactly are you punishing your wife that your therapist has said needs to stop? I am guessing here, but if it's because of your anger, the therapist is wrong. If it's because you tell her you don't trust her, your therapist is wrong. If it's because you your anger comes out very quickly and you yell about the affair, your therapist is wrong. If you are calling your wife names, your therapist is right. 

Basically, your wife is going to feel punished every time you are angry, sad, crying, depressed, devastated, and on and on. That's on her and not you, she did this, not you, and she needs to own it. I used to go in my garage and rearrange it when I went into rage. At the same time, I also let my wife know this was a direct cause of her actions. Your wife needs to see your feelings and emotions, she needs to understand how her actions have affected you. 

Your wife has a mountain of hard work to do, and you can't help her much. You spoke that she needs support, and you are right, but not from you. It comes from within herself and at the same time she is supporting you. You didn't ask for this to happen, your wife didn't consult you about having sex with someone other then you, therefore she is the one to fix this. It's very hard if your wife is remorseful, to stand back and watch her struggle, but you have to, it's her that needs to fix what's broken in her. 

I do suggest that you make a list of boundaries, and these can't be bent, broken, or negotiated. Your wife needs to fully understand that one infraction leads you both into divorce court. Choose your boundaries wisely, and I know you don't want this, the first should be very limited travel. This would include going to visit with her family, she needs to correct things at home, correct things with you. She needs to make you feel safe, and that is done by being with you, not by traveling more. 

I am open to PM's from you if you need to ask any questions. Best of luck to you.


----------



## snerg

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> 
> 
> I do suggest that you make a list of boundaries, and these can't be bent, broken, or negotiated. Your wife needs to fully understand that one infraction leads you both into divorce court. Choose your boundaries wisely, and I know you don't want this, the first should be very limited travel. This would include going to visit with her family, she needs to correct things at home, correct things with you. She needs to make you feel safe, and that is done by being with you, not by traveling more.


Add one more to this.
You have to follow through on consequences as well.

If a boundary consequence is divorce, then you have to go to a Lawyer and file divorce *AND FOLLOW THROUGH*.

Otherwise, what's the purpose of setting the boundaries?


----------



## SunCMars

Satya said:


> @Bruno, I understand that you want to "renew" the marriage and give it a year.
> 
> I recommend that you stay very steadfastly to that timetable and WATCH her ACTIONS. Crying, being inconsolable, being sorry are words. You may appreciate them, but what she does to earn your trust back is paramount.
> 
> I will say, that IMO, your "renewed" marriage is lacking a vital component, which is that your wife appears to have nothing to change or even renew. She keeps her job, she keeps her position of seniority, she keeps your support and affection, she keeps her actions under wraps (no exposure). That's sending a very rugsweeping message to her, like you are so desperate to keep your 16 years of history that you'll not risk upsetting the apple cart and possibly losing her and/or the relationship. I don't care how remorseful she sounds or how lucky she says she is to still have your love, YOUR actions also speak volumes to her. She has nothing to fear.
> 
> The fear is misplaced, because it comes from you, not her. You are going into damage repair mode when she is the one who must assume that role while you quietly watch. Bending over backwards to save someone when they need to save themselves... That is codependency.



I see this differently. Some people are more forgiving. Yes, we can call them co-dependent and fools. They certainly could be. No argument from me.

He is a forgiving soul. Most people are not. When men act this way people scoff at them. It makes me look at them a little closer. He seems to have a handle on his emotions. He is not a limp-wrist wimp.

Give it one year.
You have nothing to lose, much to gain.

Does she deserve it? No.
But this is what YOU want to happen.
You still love your wife, want to make it work, so do that one year. Watch her actions. She messed up badly and more than one person knows this. She fears that you will blab her sins to others. This may restrain her. Dunno.

She is Christian and so are you.
As a Christian you are taught to forgive others trespasser's. This is a huge trespass. For anybody.

I could not forgive. I am a poor unworthy Christian. I am a Martian.

You are not. Give her a chance. The sixteen years that you have given your' marriage? Use that to continue leveraging your forgiveness.

Good Luck..


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> If I may ask, how exactly are you punishing your wife that your therapist has said needs to stop? I am guessing here, but if it's because of your anger, the therapist is wrong. If it's because you tell her you don't trust her, your therapist is wrong. If it's because you your anger comes out very quickly and you yell about the affair, your therapist is wrong. If you are calling your wife names, your therapist is right. It was the anger. I was pissed off and yelling at her, not calling her names, just angry. I should have gone out for a walk and cool off. My wife gets it for sure.
> 
> Basically, your wife is going to feel punished every time you are angry, sad, crying, depressed, devastated, and on and on. I agree, everything but the anger, that isn't healthy for anyone, including me. Even if we get divorced in a year, I don't need to take additional time off my life by being angry. I'm trying to get on top of that as much as I can for my own benefit. That's on her and not you, she did this, not you, and she needs to own it. she owns it for sure. She is authentic and honest to a fault, just not faithful that one time. I used to go in my garage and rearrange it when I went into rage. At the same time, I also let my wife know this was a direct cause of her actions. Your wife needs to see your feelings and emotions, she needs to understand how her actions have affected you.
> 
> Your wife has a mountain of hard work to do, and you can't help her much. You spoke that she needs support, and you are right, but not from you. It comes from within herself and at the same time she is supporting you. You didn't ask for this to happen, your wife didn't consult you about having sex with someone other then you, therefore she is the one to fix this. It's very hard if your wife is remorseful, to stand back and watch her struggle, but you have to, it's her that needs to fix what's broken in her. we are working on this and she is going to start individual sessions
> 
> I do suggest that you make a list of boundaries, and these can't be bent, broken, or negotiated.this is done, we have boundaries in place ahead of her work trip next month. Your wife needs to fully understand that one infraction leads you both into divorce court. Choose your boundaries wisely, and I know you don't want this, the first should be very limited travel. This would include going to visit with her family, she needs to correct things at home, correct things with you. She needs to make you feel safe, and that is done by being with you, not by traveling more. I know but it is a reality of both our jobs and has been for 16 years and I'm ok with it, some wouldn't be.
> 
> I am open to PM's from you if you need to ask any questions. Best of luck to you.


 Thank you!! it is greatly appreciated


----------



## Bruno

SunCMars said:


> I see this differently. Some people are more forgiving. Yes, we can call them co-dependent and fools. They certainly could be. No argument from me. Loving someone, including faults isn't weakness or co-dependency. I am a Christian and believe that love is the answer. I am not dependent on anyone else for my happiness but me. She is the cheater and adulterer and has to live with herself for what she did. in the week immediately after she told me I was livid, angry and very unChristianlike. I also study buddhism as a philosophy, not the reincarnation parts and not as a religion, but the love and peace aspects and quieting of the mind type stuff. It is very powerful. As is praying.
> 
> 
> He is a forgiving soul. Most people are not. When men act this way people scoff at them. It makes me look at them a little closer. He seems to have a handle on his emotions. He is not a limp-wrist wimp.
> 
> Give it one year.
> You have nothing to lose, much to gain. Exactly. I'm in control of my life and always have been. I'm not some bitter callous soul and I won't let this turn me into some angry hateful monster.
> 
> Does she deserve it? No.
> But this is what YOU want to happen. Maybe...
> You still love your wife, want to make it work, so do that one year. Watch her actions. She messed up badly and more than one person knows this. She fears that you will blab her sins to others. This may restrain her. Dunno.
> 
> She is Christian and so are you.
> As a Christian you are taught to forgive others trespasser's. This is a huge trespass. For anybody.
> 
> I could not forgive. I am a poor unworthy Christian. I am a Martian. HA!! How'd you get here?
> 
> You are not. Give her a chance. The sixteen years that you have given your' marriage? Use that to continue leveraging your forgiveness.
> 
> Good Luck..


----------



## SunCMars

Uh, I woke up and looked at my hand.

I believe it has teeth marks on it.

I think I have been bit by Bruno...dunno!


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

I want you to do something, it's fairly easy, but it also has a resounding impact on the wayward spouse. This isn't to punish her, it's more so that she understands the effect, along with your therapist. For the next twenty four hours, put a mark down every time the affair comes to your mind. After the twenty four hours divide your check marks by 24. Now you know how many times per hour. Then divide your check marks by 60, now you know in how many minutes. When I did this I found that less then every ten minutes the affair came to my mind. 

Obviously, when the affair came to mind I was sad or angry. That anger has to be released, you can't stuff it deep down and pretend it doesn't exist. Perhaps if your wife and therapist were to know how much this is on your mind, they will understand the need to expel this anger. My wife and therapist never understood until I did this, it shocked them both. This is not an excuse however to go around like a loose cannon. Perhaps that is what your therapist is meaning, because by all means your wife needs to know how the affair has changed you.

You won't become some angry monster as you predicted, if you release that anger. As time passed the less flare ups I had towards my wife. I went in the garage as my way of coping and releasing that anger. Rest assured though, my wife would tell you many times my anger had her very nervous. When rage sets in, and trust me it's coming, I wish you luck. My rage shocked myself!! 

You have stated several times your wife is remorseful and owning of the affair. Did she offer to quit traveling? Did she offer to quit? What will she do to make you feel safe if another young intern comes into her project? I would think if she were remorseful she would offer something like this.


----------



## Evinrude58

Ask her if she would find a job and relocate with you to xxxxx, where you have already found a job. 

In order to get a fresh start.

She said she'd do anything.

Well boohooing and a few words are not all that convincing. See if she's willing to put words into actions.
She certainly had some actions with the young fellow she was with. 

If you rugsweep this, you'll be back here in the future. There needs to be some bug changes.


----------



## Malaise

Did she offer to quit her job?

Yes means she gets how seriously her travel can affect you.

No ? Trust her and you'll get over it in time. Maybe.


----------



## VladDracul

Bruno said:


> but the trust will take a long long time to earn back, I have no illusions about any of it.


She may never pull another stunt like this, but if you make trust a requisite, give up. In your heart you know you will never fully trust her again. Logically, how could you? If you decide to stay, trust yourself that her next time, if one you even suspect, will be her last time while married to you.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

VladDracul said:


> She may never pull another stunt like this, but if you make trust a requisite, give up. In your heart you know you will never fully trust her again. Logically, how could you? If you decide to stay, trust yourself that her next time, if one you even suspect, will be her last time while married to you.


 Unfortunately if/when there is a next time he'll have to find out on his own because it's highly doubtful she will ever admit to anything again. If she keeps up the drinking it's only a matter of time, especially since there were no serious consequences last time.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

How are you doing? What did your wife learn over the weekend being with family? Is she still making you feel safe? How is your anger?


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> I want you to do something, it's fairly easy, but it also has a resounding impact on the wayward spouse. This isn't to punish her, it's more so that she understands the effect, along with your therapist. For the next twenty four hours, put a mark down every time the affair comes to your mind. After the twenty four hours divide your check marks by 24. Now you know how many times per hour. Then divide your check marks by 60, now you know in how many minutes. When I did this I found that less then every ten minutes the affair came to my mind.
> 
> that will be quite a bit. I've started running again and get my anger, bad energy out that way. and I've lost about 15 pounds since d day.
> 
> Obviously, when the affair came to mind I was sad or angry. That anger has to be released, you can't stuff it deep down and pretend it doesn't exist. Perhaps if your wife and therapist were to know how much this is on your mind, they will understand the need to expel this anger. My wife and therapist never understood until I did this, it shocked them both. This is not an excuse however to go around like a loose cannon. Perhaps that is what your therapist is meaning, because by all means your wife needs to know how the affair has changed you.
> 
> You won't become some angry monster as you predicted, if you release that anger. As time passed the less flare ups I had towards my wife. I went in the garage as my way of coping and releasing that anger. Rest assured though, my wife would tell you many times my anger had her very nervous. When rage sets in, and trust me it's coming, I wish you luck. My rage shocked myself!!
> 
> You have stated several times your wife is remorseful and owning of the affair. Did she offer to quit traveling? Did she offer to quit? What will she do to make you feel safe if another young intern comes into her project? I would think if she were remorseful she would offer something like this.


 She did offer anything. I've thought about it and we've talked about it but I didn't demand it.
Her last trip was a one day work trip then with her aunts and she followed all protocol exactly. Obviously we are both heightened and aware right now and if she slips up again, I'm out. Heck I could slip up, not that I'm going to have a revenge 1 nighter. 
We went to the therapist again today, checked in and it went well. She expressed that she knew how much damage she caused to me, our relationship and herself. We are in a better place today than yesterday and it continues. She knows that I'm giving things a year and I said that I've lost weight in case I need to make myself available again. We had a good laugh about that. It comes down to whether or not we want to re commit ourselves to the marriage. One year and I will decide for sure. Thank you for checking in!


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> How are you doing? What did your wife learn over the weekend being with family? Is she still making you feel safe? How is your anger?


Thanks again. I'm doing better and we actually had discussions about "blowing up our marriage and starting over" 
if that is what I want.

Anger is getting better, sadness creeps in and yesterday I just had one of those, moments of disbelief, that really happened? 
Therapist again next week. I took wife to airport today. she is away for a 2 day meeting and I feel much less anxious than I did last week. She gave me the entire play by play of the meetings and when she is going to check in, upon landing, before bed, name of hotel, people she is with, etc.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno said:


> Thanks again. I'm doing better and we actually had discussions about "blowing up our marriage and starting over"
> if that is what I want.
> 
> Anger is getting better, sadness creeps in and yesterday I just had one of those, moments of disbelief, that really happened?
> Therapist again next week. I took wife to airport today. she is away for a 2 day meeting and I feel much less anxious than I did last week. She gave me the entire play by play of the meetings and when she is going to check in, upon landing, before bed, name of hotel, people she is with, etc.




At the risk of being negative, she can call, say she is in her room and going to bed, and you are none the wiser once she hangs up. The only way to continually check in to see if she's being honest is to call her room phone. You have thought of this, correct? Even then you won't know if anyone else is in the room. This is why I see travel as a bad piece to your marriage right now. You can't do the most important step you need to be doing right now, trust but verify. What you have is blind trust, which is what she has already taken advantage of.


----------



## ConanHub

I'm not really buying it.


----------



## Bruno

ConanHub said:


> I'm not really buying it.


I'm not asking you to buy anything. This is an old internet blog that anyone can comment.

Of course trust is going to be a huge issue and has to be earned back. She says she is committed to gaining my trust back, she wants to earn it back. 
My trump card is that she would be completely destroyed if she does it again. She would lose me, her kids, her job, everything. She understands how reckless, stupid and life limiting it was. But she claims she loves me and wants to continue the marriage. I'm giving her a year.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Bruno said:


> I'm not asking you to buy anything. This is an old internet blog that anyone can comment.
> 
> Of course trust is going to be a huge issue and has to be earned back. She says she is committed to gaining my trust back, she wants to earn it back.
> My trump card is that she would be completely destroyed if she does it again. She would lose me, her kids, her job, everything. She understands how reckless, stupid and life limiting it was. But she claims she loves me and wants to continue the marriage. I'm giving her a year.


 Have you thought about a postnup to make sure you don't get screwed financially or custody wise if it happens again.


----------



## MyRevelation

ConanHub said:


> I'm not really buying it.


This does have the feel of rugsweeping. No consequences ... no real changes ... just an empty acknowledgement and promise.


----------



## Evinrude58

The obvious: She's still going on work trips, the location of the infidelity.

"She's cimitted to earning my trust back".

Really? She's still having "one drink" on work trips that are still going on.

The cheating gets easier after the first time, I hear. You're going to relax, she's going to relax, and then there's the possibility of her getting horny for a new guy. A woman in her mid thirties and early 40's can be like a high school boy as far as hormones. 

I like the idea of a post nup a LOT in this case.

You think she will lose x,y,z...... not necessarily.


----------



## Taxman

When my wife discovered my affair, it was like hell on earth, the crying, the screams, and she got physical. I ended up with several bruises. I would never strike a woman. My wife then kicked me out. Bruno. Where are the consequences? You are giving her a year? What else? Shouldn't she hurt too? I do not subscribe to the theory that the cheater will experience remorse. Sorry, that lies there like a dead fish. They experience the horrific nature of being caught, even if they turn themselves in. NO! There must be immediate and dire consequences. Like I said, she pushed me, struck me several times, closed fist. Finally she threw a suitcase at me, and told me to get the FO. By the time I had reached my mother's house, everyone I knew heard of the affair. My mother was livid. It did not end there. Her dad had paper on my business, so that was done too. (such fun to be met by the sherriff when I went to unlock my door-along with the business for sale sign in my window) I went back to my last employer, and started on the bottom of the totem pole, all over again. AND THEN THE EARTH OPENED AND SWALLOWED ME UP. Not literally, however, within a week's time, I had it with my AP. (Idiot me, trying to have a relationship with someone who was significantly younger, and pretty much only into herself.), I broke up with her, and begged my wife's forgiveness. Then the A-Bomb! We could reconcile, but first she wanted to date. We negotiated. A week later, she said she had been on her date, and it was sufficient. Really? Yeah, I made up my mind, according to her, to fvck him and I did. I admit that he was disappointing, and I want to go again. To which I said, next time, I let your parents in on your date. That shocked her, her parents knew all about what I did, however, they were fairly puritanical, and highly judgemental. They would have disowned her and she knew it. We settled on, going back to IC and MC. No more dates for either of us unless we hit an impasse. Bruno, go up to her, and say, even though I have given it a year. You will have to pay another price. I am going out on a date with a woman younger and prettier. I will then take her to bed. You will have to know of this, because it is your penance. If I have to pay for a prostitute, you will know that as well. And you will have to deal with what I am dealing, the thought of my penis entering another woman's vagina. Keep that thought in your head. In this case, losing moral high-ground does not factor into this: She says that she had a lapse in judgement, so, you have the ability to determine penalties for lapse: 1-You have an affair. 2-You set a date for reconsidering the marriage. She opened it, now you close it.


----------



## SunCMars

Bruno said:


> I'm not asking you to buy anything. *This is an old internet blog that anyone can comment.*
> 
> Of course trust is going to be a huge issue and has to be earned back. She says she is committed to gaining my trust back, she wants to earn it back.
> My trump card is that she would be completely destroyed if she does it again. She would lose me, her kids, her job, everything. She understands how reckless, stupid and life limiting it was. But she claims she loves me and wants to continue the marriage. I'm giving her a year.


This is an old internet blog that anyone can comment?

Uh, OK.

Old is not good, young is?

Good thoughts, good advice is just that. It can come from anywhere, anyone, at any time.

Not from me. My advice is invalid, as I am an Old Fool. 
Do not stand too close to my heels. They flick off sharp sand and dust when I break into a run! :grin2:


----------



## ConanHub

Taxman said:


> When my wife discovered my affair, it was like hell on earth, the crying, the screams, and she got physical. I ended up with several bruises. I would never strike a woman. My wife then kicked me out. Bruno. Where are the consequences? You are giving her a year? What else? Shouldn't she hurt too? I do not subscribe to the theory that the cheater will experience remorse. Sorry, that lies there like a dead fish. They experience the horrific nature of being caught, even if they turn themselves in. NO! There must be immediate and dire consequences. Like I said, she pushed me, struck me several times, closed fist. Finally she threw a suitcase at me, and told me to get the FO. By the time I had reached my mother's house, everyone I knew heard of the affair. My mother was livid. It did not end there. Her dad had paper on my business, so that was done too. (such fun to be met by the sherriff when I went to unlock my door-along with the business for sale sign in my window) I went back to my last employer, and started on the bottom of the totem pole, all over again. AND THEN THE EARTH OPENED AND SWALLOWED ME UP. Not literally, however, within a week's time, I had it with my AP. (Idiot me, trying to have a relationship with someone who was significantly younger, and pretty much only into herself.), I broke up with her, and begged my wife's forgiveness. Then the A-Bomb! We could reconcile, but first she wanted to date. We negotiated. A week later, she said she had been on her date, and it was sufficient. Really? Yeah, I made up my mind, according to her, to fvck him and I did. I admit that he was disappointing, and I want to go again. To which I said, next time, I let your parents in on your date. That shocked her, her parents knew all about what I did, however, they were fairly puritanical, and highly judgemental. They would have disowned her and she knew it. We settled on, going back to IC and MC. No more dates for either of us unless we hit an impasse. Bruno, go up to her, and say, even though I have given it a year. You will have to pay another price. I am going out on a date with a woman younger and prettier. I will then take her to bed. You will have to know of this, because it is your penance. If I have to pay for a prostitute, you will know that as well. And you will have to deal with what I am dealing, the thought of my penis entering another woman's vagina. Keep that thought in your head. In this case, losing moral high-ground does not factor into this: She says that she had a lapse in judgement, so, you have the ability to determine penalties for lapse: 1-You have an affair. 2-You set a date for reconsidering the marriage. She opened it, now you close it.


Umm.... Damn.....

That is screwed up and sounds like something from an erotic story website.

I would not cheat, but if I did, I wouldn't have continued if found out and if she wanted to screw someone else I would have just called it and divorced, telling her to maybe date me again later if she wanted to give me another shot. Could never consider consent.


----------



## Taxman

ConanHub said:


> Umm.... Damn.....
> 
> That is screwed up and sounds like something from an erotic story website.


I would literally kill for this to be nothing more than a story from a website. It is massively fu(ked up, and damn it to hell, it happened. It is extreme. And it serves well. I have told the story to more than a few wayward husbands. It amazes me that those who get into these despicable situations, do not have the ability to put themselves into their spouse's shoes. I had no concept of what I put her through. I sincerely believe that very few wayward spouses possess the ability to imagine themselves in the similar position as their betrayed spouse. That is why this was earth shattering to me. As it has been put to me, why did I not just call it and let her go? BECAUSE I WANTED HER, I WANTED MY LIFE BACK, AND I WAS WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE.


----------



## ConanHub

Taxman said:


> I would literally kill for this to be nothing more than a story from a website. It is massively fu(ked up, and damn it to hell, it happened. It is extreme. And it serves well. I have told the story to more than a few wayward husbands. It amazes me that those who get into these despicable situations, do not have the ability to put themselves into their spouse's shoes. I had no concept of what I put her through. I sincerely believe that very few wayward spouses possess the ability to imagine themselves in the similar position as their betrayed spouse. That is why this was earth shattering to me. As it has been put to me, why did I not just call it and let her go? BECAUSE I WANTED HER, I WANTED MY LIFE BACK, AND I WAS WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE.


I would definitely be interested in your whole story but won't TJ here. I'll look it up but if you haven't written it, please do.


----------



## TDSC60

Can you get over the fact that she got drunk and screwed a coworker?
That she gets out of control with alcohol intake?
Can you trust her on her own?
Are you ready for a lifetime of detective work? 

You say you are giving her a year. I think you need to give yourself a year of seeing if your life is better with her or without her.

The bottom line is......do you want the marriage to continue?


----------



## Taxman

I am not going to T/J, as this is Bruno's thread. My story is all over this site. I am posting this because Bruno's story lends itself to taking the role of the victim. His wife needs the exact same consequences to her affair as I received. I have gotten some pretty severe 2x4's. I have gotten many a person telling me that what was done to me, is no way to resolve an affair. To be fair, most of those people had but one suggestion: Divorce. It is so easy to make that pronouncement. I know many people who divorced for less. I wanted her. I believed that my actions were reprehensible, but I was willing to do anything to make it up to her. She wanted the marriage as well but could not resolve herself to being in a marriage that was not balanced (we're accountants). It may seem stupid to others, it may seem extreme, but this was her solution. I could have just picked up my ball and bat and went home, but I did not. I endured, she endured, I admitted that this was all on me. She admitted that the revenge was for her, to get back her femininity, to make her feel desired. My AP was horrible in bed. Her RAP was a pencil ****. We both affaired down.


----------



## Bruno

Evinrude58 said:


> The obvious: She's still going on work trips, the location of the infidelity.
> 
> "She's cimitted to earning my trust back".
> 
> Really? She's still having "one drink" on work trips that are still going on.
> 
> The cheating gets easier after the first time, I hear. You're going to relax, she's going to relax, and then there's the possibility of her getting horny for a new guy. A woman in her mid thirties and early 40's can be like a high school boy as far as hormones.
> 
> I like the idea of a post nup a LOT in this case.
> 
> You think she will lose x,y,z...... not necessarily.


I really appreciate all of the feedback.
Yes, a 40 year old female, recently diagnosed with a disease can be reckless. She understands it as do I. 
She can't keep a secret, she is an open book. I've known her for 20 years.

Today was fine. We have a 1 year lease on the house we are in, I'm not renewing, I'm not committing to anything beyond 10 months. I will give therapy a go, I will try to not be so angry, which is working. The sadness comes and goes and the idea we'd be faithful forever is gone.
The fact that she'd do it hurts still, that will never go away completely. If that pain doesn't get better in the next year, then I am for sure gone. I can't live with that feeling and in proximity with someone that triggers that feeling.


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> At the risk of being negative, she can call, say she is in her room and going to bed, and you are none the wiser once she hangs up. The only way to continually check in to see if she's being honest is to call her room phone. You have thought of this, correct? Even then you won't know if anyone else is in the room. This is why I see travel as a bad piece to your marriage right now. You can't do the most important step you need to be doing right now, trust but verify. What you have is blind trust, which is what she has already taken advantage of.



All valid points. I will never know if she cheats again and doesn't tell me. I've known her for 20 years and know she wouldn't be able to keep it a secret. It will kill her and slowly eat her alive. Was she unfaithful? yes. Is she owning it? so far. She is an open book. I still love her, but of course it will always hurt. Do i have the capacity and desire to stay in the marriage? Maybe. Much of what I read said don't make rash decisions which seems like good advice, usually emotionally charged decisions aren't the right ones. I'm going to be rational and thoughful. Let the dust settle, take everyone's temperature and then decide what to do.

Someone brought up a good point. We are going to be hyper vigilant right now. What happens when/if things relax? She said it won't happen again, but of course the proper comeback is I didn't think it would happen once. I am feeling better, going to spend time with my family (sadly a funeral) in a few weeks without her. then I have a bunch of work trips in October and November. It will be interesting to see how I feel when I'm travelling on my own for the first time since she told me. 
Thank you for all your feedback.


----------



## GusPolinski

Bruno said:


> All valid points. I will never know if she cheats again and doesn't tell me. I've known her for 20 years and know she wouldn't be able to keep it a secret. It will kill her and slowly eat her alive. Was she unfaithful? yes. Is she owning it? so far. She is an open book. I still love her, but of course it will always hurt. Do i have the capacity and desire to stay in the marriage? Maybe. Much of what I read said don't make rash decisions which seems like good advice, usually emotionally charged decisions aren't the right ones. I'm going to be rational and thoughful. Let the dust settle, take everyone's temperature and then decide what to do.
> 
> Someone brought up a good point. We are going to be hyper vigilant right now. What happens when/if things relax? She said it won't happen again, but of course the proper comeback is I didn't think it would happen once. I am feeling better, going to spend time with my family (sadly a funeral) in a few weeks without her. then I have a bunch of work trips in October and November. It will be interesting to see how I feel when I'm travelling on my own for the first time since she told me.
> Thank you for all your feedback.


Realistically speaking, neither of you can know that she’ll never cheat again.

You might eventually _believe_ it, but you’ll never be able to _know_ it.

And it’s not until trust has been broken that you can fully appreciate the difference between the two.

Did you ever talk to her co-worker? The other woman that was there with her that night? I’m asking for a specific reason.


----------



## bandit.45

Who is the primary breadwinner?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Bruno said:


> I really appreciate all of the feedback.
> Yes, a 40 year old female, recently diagnosed with a disease can be reckless. She understands it as do I.
> She can't keep a secret, she is an open book. I've known her for 20 years.
> 
> Today was fine. We have a 1 year lease on the house we are in, I'm not renewing, I'm not committing to anything beyond 10 months. I will give therapy a go, I will try to not be so angry, which is working. The sadness comes and goes and the idea we'd be faithful forever is gone.
> The fact that she'd do it hurts still, that will never go away completely. If that pain doesn't get better in the next year, then I am for sure gone. I can't live with that feeling and in proximity with someone that triggers that feeling.


My wife has MS, quit using it as an out.


----------



## alte Dame

I think it is not uncommon for the BS to lose respect and love for the WS as time passes. People work hard to reconcile before they know how their feelings about their cheating spouses will evolve. Forums like this are littered with stories about BS's who are at best 'meh' about the spouses they were so desperate to hang on to. They expected the trust issues, but didn't necessarily understand that the love, respect and attraction could falter.

I think it's good that you are giving yourself some time. Don't be surprised if your feelings change.


----------



## Bruno

GusPolinski said:


> Realistically speaking, neither of you can know that she’ll never cheat again.
> 
> You might eventually _believe_ it, but you’ll never be able to _know_ it.
> 
> And it’s not until trust has been broken that you can fully appreciate the difference between the two.
> 
> Did you ever talk to her co-worker? The other woman that was there with her that night? I’m asking for a specific reason.


Haven't yet, but she has offered and we are going to arrange a meetup over coffee or lunch.


----------



## Malaise

Bruno said:


> Haven't yet, but she has offered and we are going to arrange a meetup over coffee or lunch.


Do you have any concern that the co-worker has been coached by your W on what to say?


----------



## arbitrator

*If drunkenness can be used as a defense in adultery, what's to keep it from being used as a defense in DUI!*


----------



## Rubix Cubed

arbitrator said:


> *If drunkenness can be used as a defense in adultery, what's to keep it from being used as a defense in DUI!*


 Or rape , murder, assault, etc.


----------



## GusPolinski

Bruno said:


> Haven't yet, but she has offered and we are going to arrange a meetup over coffee or lunch.


A couple of things...

1. As @Malaise mentioned, it’s possible that she’s been coached by your wife on what — if anything — she should say, and that’s to either you or their employer, manager, co-workers, etc.

Does your wife know that you’re planning to meet with her? (It would be better if she doesn’t.)

2. It’s possible that this wasn’t your wife’s first indiscretion, and that she confessed only because she figured that word of what happened might get back to you, either directly via the co-worker or eventually by way of rumors, etc. 

Be sure to ask the co-worker whether or not your wife had a rep for this kind of behavior before all this happened.

Oh, and if you live in a one-party consent state, have a VAR running — discretely — for the duration of the conversation.


----------



## Malaise

GusPolinski said:


> A couple of things...
> 
> 1. As @Malaise mentioned, it’s possible that she’s been coached by your wife on what — if anything — she should say, and that’s to either you or their employer, manager, co-workers, etc.
> 
> Does your wife know that you’re planning to meet with her? (It would be better if she doesn’t.)
> 
> 2. It’s possible that this wasn’t your wife’s first indiscretion, *and that she confessed only because she figured that word of what happened might get back to you, either directly via the co-worker or eventually by way of rumors, etc.
> *
> Be sure to ask the co-worker whether or not your wife had a rep for this kind of behavior before all this happened.
> 
> Oh, and if you live in a one-party consent state, have a VAR running — discretely — for the duration of the conversation.


That's what I thought right off the bat.


----------



## Edmund

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, you do not need to get an individual counselor, your wife needs one. She needs to figure out why she needs to crawl in a bottle to have fun. MS, liquor and meds on work trips is stupid. You do not need to find out why you are angry, hurt or questioning on whether to stay in the marriage or not. You know the reason, she cheated. She didn't make a mistake, she CHOSE to drink and she KNEW her behavior. Sure, I'll agree with bad judgment, but it still doesn't mean your reaction is or was wrong. Nor does it need individual counseling to figure out how to cope. You can do this in marriage counseling.


Philly, I think your opinion is worthy of consideration as well. In a public forum, there will be differences of opinion. I don't think what was written by Bruno indicates a pattern of deception, as is the case in so many of the stories one may read on TAM. But we may not have all the facts. There may be more information that Bruno does not know.

Sexual activity is a bright line for many if not most people, once it is crossed, there can be no recovery for the victim. Perhaps Bruno is like that.

He hasn't posted since the planned meeting with the female co-worker. I wonder how he is doing. Hope he has found some peace.


----------



## Bruno

Edmund said:


> Philly, I think your opinion is worthy of consideration as well. In a public forum, there will be differences of opinion. I don't think what was written by Bruno indicates a pattern of deception, as is the case in so many of the stories one may read on TAM. But we may not have all the facts. There may be more information that Bruno does not know.
> 
> Sexual activity is a bright line for many if not most people, once it is crossed, there can be no recovery for the victim. Perhaps Bruno is like that.
> 
> He hasn't posted since the planned meeting with the female co-worker. I wonder how he is doing. Hope he has found some peace.



I'm doing OK. the other worker couldn't meet, but we did reschedule. Thanks for all the posts and considerations. 
As for my wife, how can you completely trust again? In life there are no guarantees. 

We've just spent the weekend together with our kids and she said I haven't been as close as usual, but she understands.

One day at a time, one day at a time. 
As for the posters about her being a repeat offender, or hiding things from me, she has never hidden anything from me in the 20 years I've know her and is an open book. 
But that certainly doesn't excuse what she did, but I'm confident she only did this once. 

She is going to start seeing a therapist on her own to really understand what is going on. maybe something comes out of it, maybe nothing.
She scared herself by her actions.


----------



## Malaise

I hope that by seeing the therapist your wife can understand why she went to his place and got drunk knowing how she got when drunk.


----------



## TDSC60

Alcohol can lower inhibitions. Alcohol cannot change a person's basic character.
A person who would never consider harming another person will not suddenly stab someone because they drank lots of alcohol. The basic character that would allow violence has to be there all along but well hidden. Alcohol allows it to emerge and consequences ignored.

Good luck. BTW - trusting someone - no matter who - 100% is setting yourself up for disappointment sooner or latter. Lesson learned - now move on. I do not see it as a bad thing to never trust 100%. If you do that, you never recognize the red flags waving in your face.


----------



## Bruno

eric1 said:


> It's good that you are going to counseling. Personally I would use those sessions to dig into why she did what she did. The alcohol had nothing to do with it, she went to his place with one intention.
> 
> You're not getting over this unless you get over that. You're not rebuilding until you find trust again and you're not doing that without that answer.
> 
> Point blank - until you understand that you have no real trust that she hit done it before or will do it again.


You are so right on this. I read this before but it hit me the other day. She needs to go and understand why it happened and then and only then can we potentially move on. She is going to start individual sessions to get to the bottom of it.

She has 10 months left, then it is decisions time. She jokingly (obviously real, though) asked if divorce papers were on the way. I said not yet.


----------



## Bruno

Taxman said:


> You, her and your MC need to come down with a list of consequences. The last on the list, should be bolded, and discussed; if in one year you are still uncomfortable with her choices, then you will divorce. Consequences? Anything from her staying out of the house for a few months, to you going on dates with other women. Yeah, that is a consequence. Many reject it. It has been used as a jumping off point to say that the old marriage is dead, and each partner sampled others before committing to a new marriage.
> 
> I need to say this to any betrayed spouse, and I usually get a lot of flack for this, BUT...your wayward spouse has absolutely no idea what you are going through. Very very few actually can put themselves into your shoes. My wife had a solution, she put me into her shoes. At first she suggested , and then carried through sleeping with someone else. As she put it, I had humiliated her, I had stolen her femininity and desireability. She needed to get that back. The only way forward for her was for me to experience the absolute devastation that I had brought to her.


I'm a fairly spiritual person and being vengeful isn't in me. I just don't think I could do that to another person. Been reading quite a bit from the Dalai Lama about love and compassion. These are never easy roads to take regarding anything, but very difficult in instances of cheating.

And yes, it hurts like hell still, although waning.


----------



## Bruno

SunCMars said:


> Uh, I woke up and looked at my hand.
> 
> I believe it has teeth marks on it.
> 
> I think I have been bit by Bruno...dunno!


No teeth, just explaining how I see things and live my life. I'm not a vengeful person and I'm not weak. Weak would be to file for a divorce and even before that, go out and start sleeping with other people just because. I did that in college.

This is certainly not an easy road and I don't know where it leads, but life is a crazy fu***** adventure full of pain and love.

If after the next 10 months I feel committed and satisfied with where we are, then yes.

My wife already has said she wants to stay in the marriage and in remorseful and all that. Time will tell.


----------



## Bruno

VladDracul said:


> She may never pull another stunt like this, but if you make trust a requisite, give up. In your heart you know you will never fully trust her again. Logically, how could you? If you decide to stay, trust yourself that her next time, if one you even suspect, will be her last time while married to you.


She knows that. I said that exactly. She is on probation now and even if we stay together after the year, if it happens again, I'm out. 

Once is forgivable, twice might also be forgivable, but I wouldn't stay in the marriage for sure.


----------



## Talker67

Bruno said:


> No teeth, just explaining how I see things and live my life. I'm not a vengeful person and I'm not weak. Weak would be to file for a divorce and even before that, go out and start sleeping with other people just because. I did that in college.
> 
> This is certainly not an easy road and I don't know where it leads, but life is a crazy fu***** adventure full of pain and love.
> 
> If after the next 10 months I feel committed and satisfied with where we are, then yes.
> 
> *My wife already has said she wants to stay in the marriage and in remorseful and all that. Time will tell*.


indeed. She needs to do some heavy lifting. It will become obvious if she is truly sorry and wants to work things out. I hope it works out for you


----------



## Taxman

Bruno, in order to keep her off balance and open to discussing the whys and wherefores, you should be dropping hints that you are moving out. Let her think that the divorce is imminent, and you will see who you are truly married to. If she wants the marriage, she will amp up and try to keep you. Watch for this.


----------



## TDSC60

Bruno said:


> I'm a fairly spiritual person and being vengeful isn't in me. I just don't think I could do that to another person. Been reading quite a bit from the Dalai Lama about love and compassion. These are never easy roads to take regarding anything, but very difficult in instances of cheating.
> 
> And yes, it hurts like hell still, although waning.


You can have love and compassion for your fellow occupants of this earth and not do something that will end up making you sad or cause yourself pain because of it.

You can still love your wife and wish her a safe and happy life, but that does not mean you have to remain married. You were in love with your wife but her actions damaged, if not killed that. You will always love your children no matter what they do. But the love of a parent for their child is different than the love between spouses. 

It is hard to separate the wife you had and the wife you have now but they are two different entities. The wife you had was 100% trustworthy. She would never think of cheating. This is not the wife you have now. The wife you have now destroyed your image of the woman you married. She betrayed your trust and cheated on you. Do not confuse the wife you have with the wife you had. It is difficult, but if you can accept that the wife you had is gone and never coming back, it is easier to move forward. You can choose to stay with the wife you have now, but you and her have been forever changed by her actions and betrayal.

You can forgive her, but that does not require you to remain married to her.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

Who set up the meeting between you and this coworker? Did this coworker call or in any other way contact you to reschedule? Or was all of this through your wife? Have you asked your wife that you believe they may be colluding together to have the same story? That your wife and her coworker have had so much time to talk of this? What are your wife's answers that may lead you to believe that what your wife said is the truth? Has your wife spoken to this coworker from the moment it happened until right now about this incident? 

I'm not so sure you will get anything from this meeting, but I understand your need to talk to her. Just remember this, if the story is the exact same as your wife's, you will need to knock this coworker off balance. For instance, if the stories are the same say your wife changed some of what she admitted just prior to your meeting. If you can, grab your wife's phone and leave it in your car. When you part ways with the coworker she may just blowup your wife's phone. Tell this coworker you are filing for divorce but haven't told your wife yet. You want to know the extent of what these two discuss. Tell this coworker you have also come to a decision about notifying your wife's HR department. This should send the coworker into a fit that she also feels this could harm her employment. If this coworker passed out from drinking like your wife said, how can she give you details? Is this coworker sure she didn't have sex too? Like I said, knock her off balance and let her know you are skeptical of any story and not afraid to let HR know what happened and who was present. 

Sorry to have to say all of that, but I think it's the only way to get most of the truth, when something huge could affect them in such an adverse way. Have you told your wife you have thought of contacting HR? What does she say? Is she mad at you for saying you may tell her HR? I think you need to get your wife off balance too. Good luck Bruno.


----------



## drifting on

How's it going Bruno?


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> How's it going Bruno?


Hi Drifting. Thanks for checking in. I'm doing OK. we are both travelling quite a bit right now. We communicate far more than we used to. She is being hyper sensitive and texting and calling and not drinking.

She is showing that she wants to stay in the marriage and doesn't want to repeat what happened. she still claims she feels terrible about it and shocked and scared herself and that she hurt herself as well.

Clearly its not easy but so far it is going ok.

I can't say I'm thrilled or super excited to be in the marriage right now but am committed to the 1 year plan I've mentioned.

Some days are great, other awful.

just trying to move on. I can feel my own health suffering from the pain and hurt and I don't like that. If we stay married or not I don't want this to take years off my life.

Anyway, peace and I'll check in again.


----------



## ABHale

Good luck with the one year plan. 

From the outside it looks like she got her night of crazy mind blowing sex with a younger man and you got dumped on. 

You health is being effected by this and nothing is really being fixed. 

She complained that you aren’t as close as you use to be then says I understand, really. This is so screwed up. 

Doing something hard is respecting yourself and taking care of your health. 

Do as you wish but the way you are going with this, I don’t see it ending well. The marriages that survive an affair have consequences for the spouse that cheated. There have been none for your cheating wife. 

Anyway best of luck.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

I have suffered greatly since my d-day, even suffered prior to d-day with the not knowing but gut screaming. Panic attacks, anxiety, stomach churning, and the whole lot. Deciding if this took years off of my life is unknown, but I can definitely tell you your health suffers. Both physically and mentally, until action is taken by you this will most likely continue. Begin to find an outlet of some kind that is healthy, begin to research coping skills to help you become stronger mentally. 

My wife's affair left me both devastated and destroyed, that's on me, because I trusted blindly. After a few months post d-day I took action to heal myself, physically and mentally. I still had rage, but I also began other outlets to help me cope. Recovering from infidelity starts with you Bruno, only you can heal yourself to be your best. Get to a healthier place and make your decision from strength, understand that you will live with or without her by your side. This takes time to really understand, but trust that you will know when this time is. 

As for your wife and marriage, let her work on both, and you concentrate on yourself. As @ABHale stated, your wife will need to have consequences, and while she will feel them naturally on her own she still needs some from you. I'm not saying to be cruel and punishing, when your wife hits full remorse her punishment of herself is more then you can inflict. 

I hope for the best with you, I hope you find peace and happiness again no matter what decision you choose.


----------



## Malaise

ABHale;18563434
Do as you wish but the way you are going with this said:


> Has anything changed for her besides the way you see her now?
> 
> And I don't mean any self recrimination she has.
> 
> Same job, same travelling?
> 
> Changing jobs would have been a consequence.


----------



## Bruno

ABHale said:


> Good luck with the one year plan. *Thanks, only time will tell. *
> 
> From the outside it looks like she got her night of crazy mind blowing sex with a younger man and you got dumped on. *she claims she doesn't remember, which is consistent with her episodes with me that left me wondering who this person was. The next day she was confused and wondered what the hell happened. Not that it excuses what she did.*
> 
> You health is being effected by this and nothing is really being fixed. *To drifting's point, only I can control my health now.
> the anger and rage are just about gone and I've turned inwards to focus on healing myself more. good news is I've lost over 20 pounds and am running like crazy. BP and cholesterol are all down.*
> 
> She complained that you aren’t as close as you use to be then says I understand, really. This is so screwed up.
> 
> Doing something hard is respecting yourself and taking care of your health. *amen*
> 
> Do as you wish but the way you are going with this, I don’t see it ending well. The marriages that survive an affair have consequences for the spouse that cheated. There have been none for your cheating wife. *I'm not sure how it is going to end, but I know that it will be on my terms.*
> 
> Anyway best of luck.


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> I have suffered greatly since my d-day, even suffered prior to d-day with the not knowing but gut screaming. Panic attacks, anxiety, stomach churning, and the whole lot. Deciding if this took years off of my life is unknown, but I can definitely tell you your health suffers. Both physically and mentally, until action is taken by you this will most likely continue. Begin to find an outlet of some kind that is healthy, begin to research coping skills to help you become stronger mentally.
> 
> My wife's affair left me both devastated and destroyed, that's on me, because I trusted blindly. After a few months post d-day I took action to heal myself, physically and mentally. I still had rage, but I also began other outlets to help me cope. Recovering from infidelity starts with you Bruno, only you can heal yourself to be your best. Get to a healthier place and make your decision from strength, understand that you will live with or without her by your side. This takes time to really understand, but trust that you will know when this time is. *I can now see myself with or without her in the future and am fine with both. Neither one really excites me, but I'm sure that will change as time goes on. I'm not actively trying to meet someone else, but find myself leaving the house without my ring on. It still doesn't feel right to wear it sometimes.*
> 
> As for your wife and marriage, let her work on both, and you concentrate on yourself. As @ABHale stated, your wife will need to have consequences, and while she will feel them naturally on her own she still needs some from you. I'm not saying to be cruel and punishing, when your wife hits full remorse her punishment of herself is more then you can inflict. *I am focusing on myself. Gotta heal first for sure and I am feeling much better than when I first posted here. I don't really know what to say about the consequences. I don't want her to get a new job so that is out. What else is there? So far she is communicating as we agreed to and she is not drinking. I can hear it in her voice and see it when we facetime that she is sober. She can't hide it when she drinks. *
> 
> I hope for the best with you, I hope you find peace and happiness again no matter what decision you choose.


 *Thank you for your support and sincerity. It is appreciated!*


----------



## tigerlily99

I've been reading your thread and I don't have any more advice than what's been given but i want to say that I appreciate you sharing your story here on TAM. (I'm so sad for you that you have this experience to share) Your wife's awful behavior has helped me make a decision that I had literally been grappling with and that is whether or not to drink when my husband isn't with me.
It rarely happens but there are occasions. 

I'm not a drinker and never actually drank much at all until I was 35. I always felt that drinking opens the doors to what is already present within a person's heart so I should be safe because my heart is completely for my H...but I have found that when I drink I almost instantly feel amorous. Even just a glass of wine. That's not a problem at all, 1 glass of wine I can keep my amorous feelings in check, but your story of an otherwise faithful wife who just completely destroyed her marriage over getting so drunk she didn't have control over her faculties sobered me greatly. (Literally)

I'm so grieved for the heartache that you are going through and of course it's no consolation, but I would want to know if my story helped another person, so that's why I'm sharing. 

Best of luck to you.


----------



## ConanHub

Whatever happened to OM?


----------



## ABHale

ConanHub said:


> Whatever happened to OM?


He is back in college telling about his adventures. Would like to know how many applicants try for the internship next year.


----------



## ABHale

Have you informed your families of what has happened? This is one of the consequences we are taking about.


----------



## SunCMars

arbitrator said:


> *If drunkenness can be used as a defense in adultery, what's to keep it from being used as a defense in DUI!*


Think about it.

Getting convicted of a DUI costs the violator about ~ten thousand in legal costs and insurance rates.
And may cost a person their job and their good standing in the community.

And yet people still do this. Get behind the wheel and drive. One's common sense goes out the window.
Alcohol IS an excuse, not a moral one.


----------



## SunCMars

ABHale said:


> He is back in college telling about his adventures. Would like to know how many applicants try for the internship next year.


Ain't this the truth.
Does not stop fools like us from posting!! :surprise::smile2::smile2:


----------



## Evinrude58

ABHale said:


> He is back in college telling about his adventures. Would like to know how many applicants try for the internship next year.


Lmao.


----------



## Evinrude58

I don't think a one night thing (dirty laundry) needs to be aired out everywhere....

Her parents would likely have a tough burden to bear if they knew this. 

I don't know what consequences OP can really give if he won't make her switch jobs.
Just rugsweep it as you've been doing. 

Let the chips fall....

All this time off traveling for her??...., honestly, I'd wonder. It wouldn't be fun....


----------



## ConanHub

Just starting to pay attention here so forgive the slow uptake.

Does she still work with the boy she fckd?

How can she continue to work there after she has become a woman that parties with and fcks young interns?

There are probably a few company rules she sh!t on during her romp.

Is she still working with interns? If so, how can she possibly justify it after her terrible example and absolute abuse of her position of oversight?

She does not seem to be willing to make the hard decisions to redeem herself here.

She has no business working with interns as she has obliterated any trust from the company not to mention you.

Do you really think her drunken wh0ring will not become more common knowledge at her company? At least under everyone's breath and in corners whispering about her tryst? 

She hasn't just sh!t on you, her children and marriage, she totally fckd her place in her company as well.

Her behavior is rug sweeping, just like yours, and going along in her work hoping this will fade away.

Does she actually have any ethics? Morals? Aside from confessing to you, she has a lot of actions to take to repair the damage done by her wayward crotch.

Does she get any of this?


----------



## Andy1001

ConanHub said:


> Just starting to pay attention here so forgive the slow uptake.
> 
> Does she still work with the boy she fckd?
> 
> How can she continue to work there after she has become a woman that parties with and fcks young interns?
> 
> There are probably a few company rules she sh!t on during her romp.
> 
> Is she still working with interns? If so, how can she possibly justify it after her terrible example and absolute abuse of her position of oversight?
> 
> She does not seem to be willing to make the hard decisions to redeem herself here.
> 
> She has no business working with interns as she has obliterated any trust from the company not to mention you.
> 
> Do you really think her drunken wh0ring will not become more common knowledge at her company? At least under everyone's breath and in corners whispering about her tryst?
> 
> She hasn't just sh!t on you, her children and marriage, she totally fckd her place in her company as well.
> 
> Her behavior is rug sweeping, just like yours, and going along in her work hoping this will fade away.
> 
> Does she actually have any ethics? Morals? Aside from confessing to you, she has a lot of actions to take to repair the damage done by her wayward crotch.
> 
> Does she get any of this?


Instead of being a professional colleague and possible mentor to her fellow workers she is now and will forever more be known as the office door handle.
Everyone gets a turn.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

I sincerely hope you are not going to post from a position of anger after reading some of the posts on the last couple of pages. Instead, I ask of you that you read these posts very carefully. These last couple of pages have some very wise TAM posters who have given you much to digest. I know reading their posts draws upon anger and a yearning to protect your wife, defending your wife is the last thing you need to do.

What these posters have pointed out is absolute truth, which a betrayed confuses with attacking your wife. I've worn those shoes Bruno, and you are wearing them now. Some of these posters called my wife vile and despicable, those were the nicest names, but sadly they were correct. My wife was all of those names and more, it wasn't mentioned or described to make me upset. They weren't attacking me or my wife, but their posts made me see the truth and reality of my situation and the actions of my wife. 

Sure, it could have been worded differently, it could have been sugar coated, but that's not a hard truth. Hard truth is reading the actions your wife did. Sometimes we think we know what happened to us, until we read it and see it in a different light. These posters may come across as being rude and unknowing of your situation and your wife, I assure you it's not. While your wife did a terrible act towards you and your marriage, have you also seen the bigger picture? Have you thought about what this says to her peers at work? It may be hidden for now, but what if it comes to light in the future? 

These posters are truly protecting you Bruno, not attacking you or your wife. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Malaise

*I don't really know what to say about the consequences. I don't want her to get a new job so that is out*

Why?


----------



## doconiram

Malaise said:


> *I don't really know what to say about the consequences. I don't want her to get a new job so that is out*
> 
> Why?


Only reason I can think of is OP wants a divorce. Otherwise, it makes no sense to me.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

Consequences are important, more then just you're wife screwed up and knows it. You can give these as you see fit, and decide to what depth you want them to have. Has she told your parents and hers? Have you met with the other woman who was there? We're the stories the exact same? Did she move out of the bedroom? Did she offer a polygraph? When she travels, what is she doing that she can't do again? I understand no drinking, but sightseeing, different restaurants, does she stay in her room now? While home, are you the most important to her? Did she volunteer to quit or say no more traveling? 

She has to have some sort of a consequence, she can't continue as she did before with the exception of no more drinking. I hope you understand why this is important.


----------



## Bruno

tigerlily99 said:


> I've been reading your thread and I don't have any more advice than what's been given but i want to say that I appreciate you sharing your story here on TAM. (I'm so sad for you that you have this experience to share) Your wife's awful behavior has helped me make a decision that I had literally been grappling with and that is whether or not to drink when my husband isn't with me.
> It rarely happens but there are occasions.
> 
> I'm not a drinker and never actually drank much at all until I was 35. I always felt that drinking opens the doors to what is already present within a person's heart so I should be safe because my heart is completely for my H...but I have found that when I drink I almost instantly feel amorous. Even just a glass of wine. That's not a problem at all, 1 glass of wine I can keep my amorous feelings in check, but your story of an otherwise faithful wife who just completely destroyed her marriage over getting so drunk she didn't have control over her faculties sobered me greatly. (Literally)
> 
> I'm so grieved for the heartache that you are going through and of course it's no consolation, but I would want to know if my story helped another person, so that's why I'm sharing.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


*Hi Tigerlilly99

Thank you for sharing. I am glad my story provides you a chance to truly understand your boundaries and it acts as a cautionary story.


You can see from the responses here people are still hurt deeply (myself included) by infidelity. It never occurred to me or to her that she would do it. She hurt me, herself and her marriage.

I've never considered straying until she did. In fact I was at a celebration of life, wearing my wedding ring just two days ago and the caterer hit on me! I told her I didn't live in that city but she said that didn't matter and gave me her card and told me I was a nice dresser, looked good, blah blah blah. Two things: I'm not telling you this to blow my horn. I've been hit on before while married and was always completely was turned off because I was committed to someone else. I was committed on a deep level and could count on that trust and connection even when the going would get rough. But now since those foundations are completely shaken, the temptation for me was real and I kind of felt like I was justified. That scared me for many different reasons. I didn't follow through, also for many reasons, but mainly because I personally don't want to have to wear the badge of adulterer for the rest of my life.

As for my marriage, only time will tell if it works out. So ask yourself, is that extra glass of wine worth it? 

We are both travelling right now and we talked for about an hour tonight about everything. She isn't drinking at all and asked if I was planning to trade her in. I honestly said I don't know yet. She seems committed to the marriage, and it fits all of the profiles of a one off. She never indented to do it. Consciously choosing to have an affair or affairs over time is one thing, losing control and forgetting boundaries is another in terms of intent. 

But it still really really hurts no matter what and destroys trust and may destroy the marriage.

Peace and best of luck to you.

*


----------



## Malaise

Bruno said:


> *
> 
> 
> She never indented to do it. Consciously choosing to have an affair or affairs over time is one thing, losing control and forgetting boundaries is another in terms of intent.
> 
> *


OP

I don't want to beat a dead horse and this will be the last time I say this. And I say it to help, not hurt.

You believe she never intended to do it. That may be so. But...

She knows how she gets when she drinks.

She chose to go to his place.

She chose to drink.

You defend her actions as losing control but she set the circumstances in place to let it happen.

I really do wish you well.


----------



## Evinrude58

Bruno said:


> *Hi Tigerlilly99
> 
> Thank you for sharing. I am glad my story provides you a chance to truly understand your boundaries and it acts as a cautionary story.
> 
> 
> You can see from the responses here people are still hurt deeply (myself included) by infidelity. It never occurred to me or to her that she would do it. She hurt me, herself and her marriage.
> 
> I've never considered straying until she did. In fact I was at a celebration of life, wearing my wedding ring just two days ago and the caterer hit on me! I told her I didn't live in that city but she said that didn't matter and gave me her card and told me I was a nice dresser, looked good, blah blah blah. Two things: I'm not telling you this to blow my horn. I've been hit on before while married and was always completely was turned off because I was committed to someone else. I was committed on a deep level and could count on that trust and connection even when the going would get rough. But now since those foundations are completely shaken, the temptation for me was real and I kind of felt like I was justified. That scared me for many different reasons. I didn't follow through, also for many reasons, but mainly because I personally don't want to have to wear the badge of adulterer for the rest of my life.
> 
> As for my marriage, only time will tell if it works out. So ask yourself, is that extra glass of wine worth it?
> 
> We are both travelling right now and we talked for about an hour tonight about everything. She isn't drinking at all and asked if I was planning to trade her in. I honestly said I don't know yet. She seems committed to the marriage, and it fits all of the profiles of a one off. She never indented to do it. Consciously choosing to have an affair or affairs over time is one thing, losing control and forgetting boundaries is another in terms of intent.
> 
> But it still really really hurts no matter what and destroys trust and may destroy the marriage.
> 
> Peace and best of luck to you.
> 
> *


Just to be clear, WE ALL want you to have the marriage you want and have a successful reconciliation.

It's just that we know how hurt you are, and how willing you are to avoid that pain by rugsweeping and downplaying her adultery by saying it was a quick onetime thing where she lost control.

It's not. She chose at multiple steps to cheat. The step to get drunk with a young male intern, to go back to his room, to remove her clothing, to have sex........ 
it wasn't just a quick thing. The whole.evening was 
A betrayal. Every single decision she chose repeatedly herself over your feelings. 
She threw away the greatest gift she could ever give you, her loyalty, to a young guy who didn't. Are about her at all.

She obviously enjoyed going out and jamming it up with young guys. I don't think this will be the last of it. As soon as she feels secure again, she'll be drinking and "making mistakes" again. This is why she needs harsh consequences. So she'll KNOW yyiubdint tolerate another man's tool in your wife's shed.

Good luck.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Whelp, following the typical response plan. She didn't mean to do it and the posters here are still hurt, bitter or angry.Sure some are, but a vast majority are not IMO. Heck, you have a guy in RECONCILIATION giving you advice that doesn't make you feel comfortable. Believe what you want, but you have NO CLUE if this is or was a one time act.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

This can be done but it takes some strength to do, but separate yourself from your situation. Think of this as a really good friend of yours and his wife did this to him. What would your advice be? She knew she had no boundaries when drinking, yet she got completely black out drunk? What does this say about your friends wife? Sure, she's great when sober, but if she travels and drinks to this extent, then what? 

I don't say this to upset you, I'm trying to show you what we see. What would you see and then advise your friend? Bruno your wife may be a great person, but when drunk a very high risk. This is why I advised she doesn't travel for numerous reasons, drinking, lapse in therapy, blind trust, and because she is capable. Saying gently, you are still here protecting her, why? Please don't say she's my wife, my kids mother, or any other excuse, you can't protect her right now. Protecting her is keeping the rose colored glasses on you and preventing you from seeing the true picture. I've said my wife was called some very bad things, I don't protect her, instead I now know what she is capable of. Of course I protect her from danger, but I don't protect her when she was that person that many posters said she was. That's what opened my eyes, seeing my story and what others said of my wife. I couldn't protect her, she was exactly what the posters said she was. 

Now trust me I know how that feels, as my first reaction was to protect. What my wife has transformed herself to now is nothing short of amazing. I don't see in her what she once was, but I will never forget what she did or what she's capable of. Since I have forgiven her and offered reconciliation I don't speak of the affair. I accepted what happened begrudgingly, but accepted it and moved forward in our marriage. It's hard to do but it can be done, however, consequences do need to be given. 

In all honesty, you should be telling your wife you were hit on and the emotions that followed. This is how your wife will begin to understand how you are going to change. Not that you will cheat, but that before you shut it down without a second thought, but now you thought about what if. This is a consequence to your wife, that she be nervous that you may leave for someone else much more easily then before. Hell, this could make it so she may not want to travel anymore. She may be worried more about leaving you alone then about her job.


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> This can be done but it takes some strength to do, but separate yourself from your situation. Think of this as a really good friend of yours and his wife did this to him. What would your advice be? She knew she had no boundaries when drinking, yet she got completely black out drunk? What does this say about your friends wife? Sure, she's great when sober, but if she travels and drinks to this extent, then what?
> 
> I don't say this to upset you, I'm trying to show you what we see. What would you see and then advise your friend? Bruno your wife may be a great person, but when drunk a very high risk. This is why I advised she doesn't travel for numerous reasons, drinking, lapse in therapy, blind trust, and because she is capable. Saying gently, you are still here protecting her, why? Please don't say she's my wife, my kids mother, or any other excuse, you can't protect her right now. Protecting her is keeping the rose colored glasses on you and preventing you from seeing the true picture. I've said my wife was called some very bad things, I don't protect her, instead I now know what she is capable of. Of course I protect her from danger, but I don't protect her when she was that person that many posters said she was. That's what opened my eyes, seeing my story and what others said of my wife. I couldn't protect her, she was exactly what the posters said she was.
> 
> Now trust me I know how that feels, as my first reaction was to protect. What my wife has transformed herself to now is nothing short of amazing. I don't see in her what she once was, but I will never forget what she did or what she's capable of. Since I have forgiven her and offered reconciliation I don't speak of the affair. I accepted what happened begrudgingly, but accepted it and moved forward in our marriage. It's hard to do but it can be done, however, consequences do need to be given.
> 
> In all honesty, you should be telling your wife you were hit on and the emotions that followed. This is how your wife will begin to understand how you are going to change. Not that you will cheat, but that before you shut it down without a second thought, but now you thought about what if. This is a consequence to your wife, that she be nervous that you may leave for someone else much more easily then before. Hell, this could make it so she may not want to travel anymore. She may be worried more about leaving you alone then about her job.


*Hey Drifting,

reading quite a bit on here about rugsweeping and all that. my wife and I talk about her cheating night all the time and yes, I told her about me getting hit on when we talked last night. and she was super hot as well.

And I understand what she is capable of for sure now. I'm not denying any of that. So the question to me is is she willing to change so it doesn't happen again? Can we rebuilt what was lost? Do I even want her back?

I'm still trying to sort all of that out without the harsh emotions associated with the betrayal because people don't make good decisions when emotions are in control.

I totally get some of the posters her. Yes she chose to drink, yes she chose to go over the line in her mind, but after that, her problem isn't wanting sex with strangers, it is about her inability to handle drinking. She really does become another person. I had a friend in high school who would become the incredible hulk and start fights when drunk. Normally he was the nicest calmest person. 
So yes, she chose to become that person. None of this is lost on me, some of the posters here posting in anger are still hurt, you can feel it so I discount what some of them say.
I appreciate your openness and honesty for sure drifting and I'm glad you are past it. I see my wife trying to transform herself as well. But she certainly has a long way to go. 

Time will tell. So in my mind, reading the harsh nasty, almost juvenile posts really does nothing to help me. I've already thought ALL OF THOSE THINGS already about her. Continuing to think about that all the time doesn't help me or anyone move on. 

She knows the marriage is hanging in the balance and she tells me all the time she wants to stay together and will do whatever it takes.

As I've always said, I'm still not sure if I'll be around in a year. 
I will always love and support her, just not sure it I will be her husband.

Peace


*


----------



## Malaise

And I understand what she is capable of for sure now. I'm not denying any of that. *So the question to me is she willing to change so it doesn't happen again?* Can we rebuilt what was lost? Do I even want her back?


If she is not willing to change jobs or eliminate travel, then no


----------



## Taxman

Her impetus for cleaning up her act is the fear that Bruno will "trade her in". My suggestion is that Bruno keeps this fear on the front burner, and stir the pot occasionally. This keeps her from sliding back into the behaviors that made this all possible. Some would say that I am for torturing the WW. Nope, this is not torture, if anything it is a consequence of her actions, just the same if Bruno decides to walk. I know that in my practice, I see about 10-15 divorces a year. Of the ones coming from infidelity, there are a goodly number that mirror Bruno's both male and female. The ones that work out, are the ones where the wayward spouse has figured out that they just sh1t on the best thing they ever had, and are working furiously to recover, and are willing to face and endure consequences of their actions. The consequences of their actions are what fuels a reconciliation.

In some cases, the divorce proceeds. In one or two, there has been a calculated revenge: both sexual and situational (that one was for the record books, I had NEVER seen a husband as vindictive, destructive and plain mean-his WW literally had to leave the country, her family was gone, her job was gone, her prospects for employment anywhere gone, her friends gone, her money gone, her children GONE, finally, as a last act, he had sponsored her into our country, and it was a ten year sponsorship, he informed immigration at the 9.75 year mark that they were divorcing, and he rescinded his sponsorship, she returned to a third world country where she literally no longer knew anyone.) 

In the ones where there were significant penalties to bear on the wayward spouse, I found that the marriages survived, repaired, and continued. In the ones where the penalties were met with anger and disregard, the marriages either continued on life-support or died.


----------



## Bruno

Taxman said:


> Her impetus for cleaning up her act is the fear that Bruno will "trade her in". My suggestion is that Bruno keeps this fear on the front burner, and stir the pot occasionally. This keeps her from sliding back into the behaviors that made this all possible. Some would say that I am for torturing the WW. Nope, this is not torture, if anything it is a consequence of her actions, just the same if Bruno decides to walk. I know that in my practice, I see about 10-15 divorces a year. Of the ones coming from infidelity, there are a goodly number that mirror Bruno's both male and female. The ones that work out, are the ones where the wayward spouse has figured out that they just sh1t on the best thing they ever had, and are working furiously to recover, and are willing to face and endure consequences of their actions. The consequences of their actions are what fuels a reconciliation.
> 
> In some cases, the divorce proceeds. In one or two, there has been a calculated revenge: both sexual and situational (that one was for the record books, I had NEVER seen a husband as vindictive, destructive and plain mean-his WW literally had to leave the country, her family was gone, her job was gone, her prospects for employment anywhere gone, her friends gone, her money gone, her children GONE, finally, as a last act, he had sponsored her into our country, and it was a ten year sponsorship, he informed immigration at the 9.75 year mark that they were divorcing, and he rescinded his sponsorship, she returned to a third world country where she literally no longer knew anyone.)
> 
> In the ones where there were significant penalties to bear on the wayward spouse, I found that the marriages survived, repaired, and continued. In the ones where the penalties were met with anger and disregard, the marriages either continued on life-support or died.


*Hey Taxman, thanks for the reply. What other penalties should I impose? I have threatened divorce after a year, and did tell her about getting hit on and how different it felt now that she has cheated.
We haven't told the families or our kids and I know that would completely destroy her and I told the keys to this obviously. Alternatively I don't think I want to be with her if she is only staying with me out of this fear, that isn't healthy either and frankly I wouldn't want that. Or am I off base in that thinking?

For me it comes down to: do we still love each other and can we get past this? So far the answers are yes and maybe.

So for now, she is going to a therapist and we are also going together, our next joint session is next week. 
Trying to rebuild trust and figuring out if this love thing with her can continue are the next steps. If the trust can't be rebuilt and the love wanes, it is over. I'm just trying to be an adult about this. So spare me (not you taxman, but others) the "your wife f***" or is a "door knob" or whatever. I was in 8th grade as one point as well. Like I said, I've thought all of those things and more, thought about this from every vantage point, struggle with getting images out of my head, etc. 
If these comments are just going to degrade into that kind of stuff, I'm out of here as they truly aren't helpful save for the people posting them.
So again, thank you to all the honest and sincere and respectful people. It is greatly appreciated and takes courage to be honest.

Peace 
*


----------



## harrybrown

Glad you let her know about your visit with the lady on your travels.

Hope your wife was extremely happy that you did not follow her home. You should be too.

Do keep your morals. Wait until this relationship is fixed or over before getting involved with someone else.

Hope this was her only rodeo. hope you find some happiness someday.


----------



## Andy1001

Bruno said:


> *Hey Taxman, thanks for the reply. What other penalties should I impose? I have threatened divorce after a year, and did tell her about getting hit on and how different it felt now that she has cheated.
> We haven't told the families or our kids and I know that would completely destroy her and I told the keys to this obviously. Alternatively I don't think I want to be with her if she is only staying with me out of this fear, that isn't healthy either and frankly I wouldn't want that. Or am I off base in that thinking?
> 
> For me it comes down to: do we still love each other and can we get past this? So far the answers are yes and maybe.
> 
> So for now, she is going to a therapist and we are also going together, our next joint session is next week.
> Trying to rebuild trust and figuring out if this love thing with her can continue are the next steps. If the trust can't be rebuilt and the love wanes, it is over. I'm just trying to be an adult about this. So spare me (not you taxman, but others) the "your wife f***" or is a "door knob" or whatever. I was in 8th grade as one point as well. Like I said, I've thought all of those things and more, thought about this from every vantage point, struggle with getting images out of my head, etc.
> If these comments are just going to degrade into that kind of stuff, I'm out of here as they truly aren't helpful save for the people posting them.
> So again, thank you to all the honest and sincere and respectful people. It is greatly appreciated and takes courage to be honest.
> 
> Peace
> *


It was me who made the door handle comment and if it offended you then I apologize.
I will try and say this politely.
You have no idea whatsoever how many times you’re wife has cheated on you.There is a reason for her confessing this time.She is afraid that the intern will tell or else her coworker will gossip or else blackmail her.
I spent years traveling as a younger man and there is a mindset among people who do this which is a bit like the Las Vegas adage,whatever happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.Whatever happens on the road,stays on the road.Nobody starts this behavior without thinking about the chances of being caught.
You seem resigned to the fact that your wife has to travel.She has shown you that she can’t be trusted but you appear to have given her no repercussions for her actions other than a vague threat of something happening in a years time.
You don’t leave an alcoholic in charge of a bar.You don’t let someone who can’t be trusted travel alone.You originally were dealing from a point of strength but now you are starting to look weak and ineffectual and your wife is losing whatever respect she had for you.
You say if you reveal to her family it will destroy her.She has destroyed you and your marriage and to most people reading on tam she has gotten away scot free.
Ask your wife one question.Why did she tell you and would she tell you again if she could go back in time.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Bruno said:


> Many people online are of the mentality, eff that and get a divorce ASAP. I'm not sure that is best. Some people have huge egos and can't deal with things.


The flip side to that is some people are scared codependents who lack the self respect to leave.

Food for thought.

Also, I applaud your wife's courage for her unsolicited confession to throwing herself at a 24 yo Chad.

Don't kid yourself... Your "sex gremlin" thoroughly enjoyed the pounding. At least we can all agree.... he's not gay.


----------



## ABHale

Malaise said:


> OP
> 
> I don't want to beat a dead horse and this will be the last time I say this. And I say it to help, not hurt.
> 
> You believe she never intended to do it. That may be so. But...
> 
> She knows how she gets when she drinks.
> 
> She chose to go to his place.
> 
> She chose to drink.
> 
> You defend her actions as losing control but she set the circumstances in place to let it happen.
> 
> I really do wish you well.


This is so true. 

Why does she keep asking if Bruno going to trade her in? 

How many times has she asked? 

If the answer is yes will she start drinking again?

What your wife did was intentional believe it or not, up to you.


----------



## Satya

@Bruno, are _you_ scared of losing her?


----------



## ConanHub

BTW Bruno, I might have used harsh language but I am serious about your wife and her compromised position at work.

Partying with and screwing young interns, especially while married, is about as low brow and pathetic as it gets.

She should not be working with the moron she did this with or other interns. 

How does she justify it if she is still doing it?

You might want to brush my comment off as juvenile but I have been responsible for trainees and interns. I never partied with or had sex with any of them.

Your wife did. Her behavior was extremely juvenile and irresponsible at best.

So call me juvenile for pointing out that your wife is.

It is obviously a trick you are attempting to play on yourself.

I am angry from a professional position and a ethics/moral one.

She should not be in her current position if it involves her playmate or working directly with interns.


----------



## Taxman

The threat of outing her affair to everyone she knows is usually works well. Unfortunately, she is going to hear a lot of threats, and she will eventually become blase about them. Occasionally, you will have to follow through. My wife outed me to just about everyone. I was lucky to get my job back. Nobody had an ounce of trust for me. I was tossed into the street, and my parents reluctantly took me back. My best friend had to turn his back or his wife would have kicked him out. Finally finally finally, I got the last, and worst of the consequences, she told me she was going to sleep with someone else and followed through. The only way I could then stop her, is that I turned it around on her, and first assaulted her AP, breaking several bones and letting his wife know he ****ed my wife (yup, he could not work anymore, so he quit, and I told her boss the reason and my wife lost her job, then the AP's wife sent her brothers over to our apartment-my wife called me in a panic, and I told her that she made her ****ing bed-I called the wife and told her to tell her family to back off). I finally had to put her on notice that if she wanted this war of attrition I would inform her parents and have her tossed out of her family. I was on the phone to her mother and had already referred to her as a *****, when she snatched it out of my hands and declared a peace. We had given enough consequences, and began our reconciliation out of the ashes. We have been married now for 40 years.


----------



## Bruno

Satya said:


> @Bruno, are _you_ scared of losing her?


*No I'm not scared of losing her. More scared of getting divorced as my parents had a super ugly one and they never recovered. But when I think rationally about it, I am far more grounded than my parents and can deal. I don't like the failure that divorce entails,
but I wasn't the one who failed so I can handle that as well I guess. I hadn't really thought about that until you asked the question.

Peace

*


----------



## Bruno

ConanHub said:


> BTW Bruno, I might have used harsh language but I am serious about your wife and her compromised position at work.
> 
> Partying with and screwing young interns, especially while married, is about as low brow and pathetic as it gets.
> 
> She should not be working with the moron she did this with or other interns.
> 
> How does she justify it if she is still doing it?
> 
> You might want to brush my comment off as juvenile but I have been responsible for trainees and interns. I never partied with or had sex with any of them.
> 
> Your wife did. Her behavior was extremely juvenile and irresponsible at best.
> 
> So call me juvenile for pointing out that your wife is.
> 
> It is obviously a trick you are attempting to play on yourself.
> 
> I am angry from a professional position and a ethics/moral one.
> 
> She should not be in her current position if it involves her playmate or working directly with interns.


*No they don't work together, not even on the same continent or for the same company. Yes she acted like an total f**** moron, insert just about any word. What offends me isn't the harsh language. What does bother me is that someone is here looking for help and/or support and get strange feedback that really isn't helpful.

As for the career risk, personal risk etc to her, that is real and a huge concern for me as well. I think both of them will gain nothing from talking about it and frankly will risk far more, meaning they both have a lot to lose, including the OM, but clearly my wife has more to lose given her senior role. 

Morally obviously it is disgraceful and disgusting and wrong on so many levels.
*


----------



## BetrayedDad

Bruno said:


> *No they don't work together, not even on the same continent or for the same company. Yes she acted like an total f**** moron, insert just about any word. What offends me isn't the harsh language. What does bother me is that someone is here looking for help and/or support and get strange feedback that really isn't helpful.*


I, myself am not really sure what answers you are looking for in this thread. How to cope with being a ****? Can't help you there. Clearly, your wife purposely getting wasted and intentionally having sex with a stranger isn't a deal breaker for you. So simply continue on with the marriage until she finally does something that is a deal breaker. You've chosen to stay. How you deal with the emasculation of another man injecting his seed into your woman (no one EVER uses a condom in those situations) is your own mental gymnastics to hash out. There's no straight answer for that, its whatever delusion helps you sleep at night. Good luck.


----------



## sokillme

BetrayedDad said:


> I, myself am not really sure what answers you are looking for in this thread. How to cope with being a ****? Can't help you there. Clearly, your wife purposely getting wasted and intentionally having sex with a stranger isn't a deal breaker for you. So simply continue on with the marriage until she finally does something that is a deal breaker. You've chosen to stay. How you deal with the emasculation of another man injecting his seed into your woman is your own mental gymnastics to hash out. There's no straight answer for that, its whatever delusion helps you sleep at night. Good luck.


What is the point of this. It's his life, you don't need to destroy him for his choice. gees.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

May I ask if you are leaning towards reconciliation? I'm asking as your wife has had next to none consequences from you. I'm not going to say this is bad or don't give a consequence she'll do it again. I'm asking because if you do decide to reconcile, then not exposing will help. After you said she would be destroyed if her parents found out, I began to think you may be leaning towards reconciliation. 

Whatever you decide I will support you. You can pm or ask anything you'd like to in your thread if you think I can help. Just so you are aware I am over three years into reconciling after my wife had a workplace affair lasting six months. My wife ended the affair and confessed two and a half years later. Two days later she confessed to the paternity of our twins, they were OM's. 

Today we are much better, both as spouses and individuals. Happiness is returning and some nights I even feel a calming peace. Reconciliation is very difficult work to do, but it can be done if both spouses commit fully to the marriage. Be prepared to work on yourself, self reflect, and correct what you brought to the marriage that was toxic. If you decide to divorce, then just disregard what I've said above. Best of luck to you.


----------



## tigerlily99

@Bruno
Some posters can be very harsh and trigger deeply with another person's story of injustice.
It seems that some are so intent on underscoring and reiterating the situation that they keep repeating things like slow motion of a car wreck over and over.
I'm sorry Bruno because I'm sure you have those pictures in your mind regardless.
You don't strike me as a guy who is just rolling over and not taking action.

But it's people like DriftingOn who encouraged me incredibly during some hard stuff I went through and his story is a doozy for sure. He and many others like him make this forum worthwhile.

Clearly you have thick skin, but if it needs to be said, please stick around and filter out the angry accusers.

There's so much good counsel to be had here on TAM!

I really hope for the best for you and that your wife works hard to make herself worthy of your devotion and earnest desire to give her the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## BetrayedDad

sokillme said:


> What is the point of this?


The point is that he fully comprehends the reality of the situation before the rug sweeping commences.



sokillme said:


> It's his life, you don't need to destroy him for his choice, gees.


Looks like his wife already destroyed him.....



bruno said:


> I will always love her but am completely gutted, we have 2 kids.


----------



## ConanHub

Bruno said:


> *No they don't work together, not even on the same continent or for the same company. Yes she acted like an total f**** moron, insert just about any word. What offends me isn't the harsh language. What does bother me is that someone is here looking for help and/or support and get strange feedback that really isn't helpful.
> 
> As for the career risk, personal risk etc to her, that is real and a huge concern for me as well. I think both of them will gain nothing from talking about it and frankly will risk far more, meaning they both have a lot to lose, including the OM, but clearly my wife has more to lose given her senior role.
> 
> Morally obviously it is disgraceful and disgusting and wrong on so many levels.
> *


Part of a successful reconciliation or just getting healthy and moving on is getting it.

I had an honest inquiry as to whether she really got it, what she really did on so many levels.

Cheating is bad all around but she did it in a spectacularly stupid way that has far more ramifications than just destroying her family which is no small matter itself.

I had to wonder, given her actions, if she really did get it and how she justifies continued work with young interns.


----------



## BetrayedDad

ConanHub said:


> I had an honest inquiry as to whether she really got it, what she really did on so many levels.


Neither of them get it. OP won't impose REAL consequences (ie her quitting the job that lead to the ONS) because he's more concerned about her "senior role" than his self respect. 

Basically, he uses the "for the kids" excuse when in reality he's more concerned about her paycheck and the financial consequences of him divorcing her and/or her losing her job. 

How do you expect respect OP when you can't even respect yourself? Cheaters cheat for one reason. They DO NOT respect their spouses enough not to. Money doesn't buy respect OP.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Also remember, many people do not like tough and honest advice. So, they attack the messengers as angry, bitter and harsh. Take all advice with a grain of salt and apply it to your situation. There are just as many gloss over people who have caused a person to remain in limbo while their spouse continues to cheat or decides to blindsided them with "I want out," while all the warning signs were rug swept because people were accused of being too "harsh." There is no "right" side in these life altering issues, only advice.


----------



## Bruno

BetrayedDad said:


> Neither of them get it. OP won't impose REAL consequences (ie her quitting the job that lead to the ONS) because he's more concerned about her "senior role" than his self respect.
> 
> Basically, he uses the "for the kids" excuse when in reality he's more concerned about her paycheck and the financial consequences of him divorcing her and/or her losing her job.
> 
> How do you expect respect OP when you can't even respect yourself? Cheaters cheat for one reason. They DO NOT respect their spouses enough not to. Money doesn't buy respect OP.


*I have commented on here before that $$ is not a factor. We are both high income earners, in fact I earn more than she does but her job has medical insurance and she has MS. That is why I wouldn't want her to leave her job, even if I stay or go.
As for respect and all that, those are very valid questions. I respect myself and right now don't have a lot of respect for her. I don't see her as I used to see her, clearly. Her flaws are HUGE and staring me in the face. Does that mean I should just walk away? 

I'm going to say this again: I'm going to wait for the emotions to calm down and give the marriage another 8 months, that will be 1 year from d day. If I don't feel any respect, she hasn't done everything to earn my trust back, done everything in her power to make sure it doesn't happen again, then yes, maybe I'll divorce.

Drifting brings up good point about looking at myself. I wasn't always the best husband, we let our relationship go a bit and focused on our careers, kids, etc. THAT DOES NOT Excuse what she did, but if I chose reconciliation, all of these things will need to be considered. 
I understand she already **** on the wonderful gift I have given her. And loving someone that cheated tests the boundaries of a persons capability to love. I get that. But I certainly don't see it as weakness if I decide to stay. So go ahead and throw more names my way, I can handle it.

*


----------



## BetrayedDad

@Bruno

I'm not advocating irresponsibility either OP. If she needs to find a new job first before she quits her old one so there is no lapse in your medical coverage then that's a reasonable position.

But quitting ought to be nonnegotiable and I question your judgment if it's not to you. She can not continue to work in an atmosphere that would allow her "sex gremlin" to come out on the interns.

Along with doing everything in her power to earn your trust back, the top on the list at the moment should polishing your knob and her resume so she can get the hell out of there.


----------



## Bruno

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Also remember, many people do not like tough and honest advice. *So, they attack the messengers as angry, bitter and harsh. *Take all advice with a grain of salt and apply it to your situation. There are just as many gloss over people who have caused a person to remain in limbo while their spouse continues to cheat or decides to blindsided them with "I want out," while all the warning signs were rug swept because people were accused of being too "harsh." There is no "right" side in these life altering issues, only advice.


*Because some people here are so obviously bitter and angry. Misery loves company and they are looking for it. I'm trying to focus on the positives (if I can find any). I've already thought all of the negative **** possible about my wife. I am trying to see if I can build respect for her again, trust her again. Why do I need to have more **** thrown at her, at me, at my marriage while I'm trying to figure this out?
Harsh is OK, but posting here to mask your own problems isn't cool. The hurt and resentment is palpable in some posts. 

Being harsh, honest and authentic is fine and should be encouraged. Talking about the raw emotions of cheating and infidelity is good. Name calling and using slang words to degrade people isn't cool no matter what they have done. 

I'm not going to go down to buffalo wild wings, pound some beers and get ****faced and hit on the waitress and feel sorry for myself. *


----------



## Primrose

BetrayedDad said:


> @Bruno
> 
> 
> But quitting ought to be nonnegotiable and I question your judgment if it's not to you. She can not continue to work in an atmosphere that would allow her "sex gremlin" to come out on the interns.


Yes, this.

You don't allow an alcoholic in a bar and then expect him/her to resist the easy access and flow of drink.

Just as you do not allow a cheater unsupervised in the very situation she proved herself incapable of resisting the first time.

This HAS to be non-negotiable. Sure, she will play your game long enough to prove a point, but at some point she will allow her guard to fall again. Can you trust that when this [inevitably] does happen a second time, that she will be able to say no? No, you do not trust that, so why are you allowing her the chance?

If she is this profitable to her company, she should easily be able to find a new job, or even negotiate a non-traveling position at her current place of work.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Bruno said:


> *Because some people here are so obviously bitter and angry. Misery loves company and they are looking for it. I'm trying to focus on the positives (if I can find any). I've already thought all of the negative **** possible about my wife. I am trying to see if I can build respect for her again, trust her again. Why do I need to have more **** thrown at her, at me, at my marriage while I'm trying to figure this out?
> Harsh is OK, but posting here to mask your own problems isn't cool. The hurt and resentment is palpable in some posts.
> 
> Being harsh, honest and authentic is fine and should be encouraged. Talking about the raw emotions of cheating and infidelity is good. Name calling and using slang words to degrade people isn't cool no matter what they have done.
> 
> I'm not going to go down to buffalo wild wings, pound some beers and get ****faced and hit on the waitress and feel sorry for myself. *


 It's okay we have all watched posters come here and defend their cheating spouses to the bitter end, while insulting the people trying to help them. It is all good, the irony is you fit the description you just ascribed to the group of "some people here." Yep even down to the "masking their own problems" is on you as well.


----------



## drifting on

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It's okay we have all watched posters come here and defend their cheating spouses to the bitter end, while insulting the people trying to help them. It is all good, the irony is you fit the description you just ascribed to the group of "some people here." Yep even down to the "masking their own problems" is on you as well.





It takes oneself to look very deep into their core to find ones true self. I had to do this myself, during infidelity, and truly find me with twenty twenty vision. It wasn't easy nor was it something I wanted to do, but to fix or become a healthier person one has to do this. Forever gone are the images that once were, replaced images of what is now truth. Masking things over, giving benefit of the doubt, becomes a much harder task once you have become a healthier self. I have found my core and rebuilt from the ground up. That requires me to see without blinders or rose colored glasses. 

This will take some time Bruno, but you will get to this point too. Philly's post here should be required reading for any betrayed spouse in my opinion. It's a hard difficult truth that many betrayed spouses cannot help to fall into. I am not saying posters aren't in pain or trigger, but sometimes posters don't think the betrayed spouse truly understands. In my opinion I think you are treading lightly, waiting for the ruins to be cleared and see what has survived. From there you can make an assessment as to what your best path FOR YOU will be. In the meantime, you must also assess what your wife is doing. Is she doing all she can to keep your marriage? Is she seeking out IC even while she travels? This can be done by phone if necessary. If she isn't Bruno, why? 

Bruno, we will never meet anyone in our lifetime who is perfect. We all have flaws, it's a part of being human. The single biggest correct action taken by your wife was confessing. Yet even that can be argued as to why she confessed, but nonetheless she did confess which is a huge action. She obviously could have said nothing, even if someone said they would tell you, and then gas lighted you until you found a smoking gun. I doubt you ever would find that smoking gun, so again, your wife's confession is a huge action.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Bruno said:


> *I'm not going to go down to buffalo wild wings, pound some beers and get ****faced and hit on the waitress and feel sorry for myself. *


Good luck to you OP. You've already decided what you want to do. To recap for everyone, in conclusion:

1) Won't tell his wife to quit her job and leave the toxic environment full of Chads that caused the affair in the first place.

2) Won't perform a proper exposure to ensure consequences for wife, OM's possible gf is alerted and OM knows to stay away.

3) Refuses to have her served for divorce (which can be withdrawn later) to show seriousness or even consult an attorney to explore options.

4) Hiding behind the kids and more concerned about his "medical coverage" and money than his self respect and believing he deserves better.

5) In a nut shell, refuses to do ANYTHING except visit an anonymous forum and ask for coping strategies on putting up with a drunken sex gremlin.










*Nothing to see here....*


----------



## Edmund

If you love her forgive her. Establish new rules for travel (I.e. Dont socialize with co-workers in their hotel suite. Don't drink alcohol. ). Folks on this board have one solution for everybody. Your case involves bad judgement but not the premeditated deception and betrayal of other cases on this board. You can get past it. She not pregnant and doesn't have stds/sti so she is not damaged goods physically. The big question is whether either or both of you are damaged psychologically. I will save all the other posters time by just saying what they will say: I am completely wrong, all infidelity is the same and divorce is the only answer.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Marc878

Trying to manipulate her with words won't get you much long term.

Go silent then take some time and figure out what you want. 

Separation usually isn't a good idea but in this case it might be good for you.


----------



## Bruno

Edmund said:


> If you love her forgive her. Establish new rules for travel (I.e. Dont socialize with co-workers in their hotel suite. Don't drink alcohol. ). Folks on this board have one solution for everybody. Your case involves bad judgement but not the premeditated deception and betrayal of other cases on this board. You can get past it. She not pregnant and doesn't have stds/sti so she is not damaged goods physically. The big question is whether either or both of you are damaged psychologically. I will save all the other posters time by just saying what they will say: I am completely wrong, all infidelity is the same and divorce is the only answer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


*Thanks Edmund. I'm still trying to figure that out. I'm pretty sure I love her, but that doesn't mean I will still be her husband. 

We have a lot of work to do for sure.

Peace*


----------



## syhoybenden

Edmund said:


> Your case involves bad judgement but not the premeditated deception and betrayal of other cases on this board. You can get past it. She not pregnant and doesn't have stds/sti so she is not damaged goods physically.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You don't know that.


----------



## ConanHub

Edmund said:


> If you love her forgive her. Establish new rules for travel (I.e. Dont socialize with co-workers in their hotel suite. Don't drink alcohol. ). Folks on this board have one solution for everybody. Your case involves bad judgement but not the premeditated deception and betrayal of other cases on this board. You can get past it. She not pregnant and doesn't have stds/sti so she is not damaged goods physically. The big question is whether either or both of you are damaged psychologically. I will save all the other posters time by just saying what they will say: I am completely wrong, all infidelity is the same and divorce is the only answer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Don't group us all. We are individuals.

I definitely think this marriage is salvageable but only if the stupidity this woman foisted on everyone is dealt with effectively.

I never mentioned divorce and several others didn't either.

Otherwise, good post.


----------



## Edmund

ConanHub said:


> Don't group us all. We are individuals.
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely think this marriage is salvageable but only if the stupidity this woman foisted on everyone is dealt with effectively.
> 
> 
> 
> I never mentioned divorce and several others didn't either.
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise, good post.




Conan, I apologize to you and all others I lumped together. I just think people can get crazy about what is happening below the waist and forget that the real issues are what is happening in the brains. If that makes any sense.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Edmund

syhoybenden said:


> You don't know that.




Syh,
True. All I know is what I have read on this thread. If it turns out Bruno finds this has been a standard practice for her on business trips, and she confessed this time only because she thought it was going to come out from the friend or OM, then my post is invalid, as that would be long term deception and trickle truth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Taxman

Bruno, because I have been in your wife's shoes (the cheater), and I am now over 30 years removed from that despicable time, let me tell you that we were headed directly for the divorce court. She could not forgive my affair. She saw me with the little trollop, and was out for blood. When she slept with someone else, it put us on an equal footing. Most people here will say that it was patently stupid, evil, wrong, messed up, etc. etc. etc. My perspective is quite different, when she saw me hurting because of what she did, she felt that I had received the payback that I deserved. In her mind justice was served. In my mind, I served the exact same sentence as I had pronounced on her. We were again equals, and we were able to use the next six months to recover. The bullsh!t was cleared up by mutual betrayal.

I do not understand a wayward that says that if their BS revenge cheats, they are gone. What fu(king hypocrisy! When you cheat, all goddamn bets are off. If your partner comes home freshly fu(ked, you have not one word to say. Period. The only thing one can say is either: OK, bullcrap over, do you want to reconcile? OR OK, enough is enough, lets divorce. I get a ton of flack on this, and I have been told by several ignorant posters on several sites projecting their hurts onto my relationship that we are both dirty cheaters, probably still cheating and our marriage is a sham. Well, I would like to invite those arseholes over to see a perfectly happy married couple who are very much into each other, are romantic and loving, are told by their children that we wrecked them for casual relationships, and are about to celebrate our 40th. We came to realize that the affairs were not earth shattering, they were stupid errors that could be corrected with time patience and a few shocks along the way. PS, once the bullsh!t passes, you can rebuild trust. The mutual betrayal wipes it out on both sides and you are rebuilding from ground zero instead of one constantly trying to prove their trustworthiness to the other.


----------



## bandit.45

Bruno said:


> Because some people here are so obviously bitter and angry. Misery loves company and they are looking for it. I'm trying to focus on the positives (if I can find any).
> 
> *No what you have here are a group of people who have been in your position and who have dealt with the same sh*tshow you are dealing with and who are trying to help you through this.
> *
> 
> I've already thought all of the negative **** possible about my wife. I am trying to see if I can build respect for her again, trust her again. Why do I need to have more **** thrown at her, at me, at my marriage while I'm trying to figure this out?
> 
> *No. SHE builds your respect for her again. SHE builds your trust for her again. And no one is throwing anything at you and her. You came here asking for opinions and that is what you are getting. Throw out the opinions that don't serve your cause and keep the ones that do.
> *
> 
> Harsh is OK, but posting here to mask your own problems isn't cool. The hurt and resentment is palpable in some posts.
> 
> *People here are the walking wounded. This is a hospital, not a country club. If a country club is what you want, where everybody strokes you and tells you what you want to hear, then I recommend you go check out Surviving Infidelity. *.
> 
> Being harsh, honest and authentic is fine and should be encouraged. Talking about the raw emotions of cheating and infidelity is good. Name calling and using slang words to degrade people isn't cool no matter what they have done.
> 
> *Then report those people who do and the moderators will deal with them. *
> 
> I'm not going to go down to buffalo wild wings, pound some beers and get ****faced and hit on the waitress and feel sorry for myself.


----------



## Bruno

Thank you for the post. Update on me:

All is going ok. I'm travelling now, back together on Saturday for a few days, then I'm off again for several more days.

I get mixed emotions when I'm away, feel myself losing interest, feel myself now thinking about wandering and that never happened before, always thinking that even if she is remorseful and super sorry blah blah blah, I still say to myself, she let herself get wasted, she decided to throw our marriage on the ground and stomp on it, treat it like ****.

Divorce is a real option. Maybe that's the path, still sorting this out.

Peace


----------



## poida

Bruno said:


> *Because some people here are so obviously bitter and angry. Misery loves company and they are looking for it. I'm trying to focus on the positives (if I can find any). I've already thought all of the negative **** possible about my wife. I am trying to see if I can build respect for her again, trust her again. Why do I need to have more **** thrown at her, at me, at my marriage while I'm trying to figure this out?
> Harsh is OK, but posting here to mask your own problems isn't cool. The hurt and resentment is palpable in some posts.
> 
> Being harsh, honest and authentic is fine and should be encouraged. Talking about the raw emotions of cheating and infidelity is good. Name calling and using slang words to degrade people isn't cool no matter what they have done.
> 
> I'm not going to go down to buffalo wild wings, pound some beers and get ****faced and hit on the waitress and feel sorry for myself. *


Hi Bruno, 
Just my 2 cents. 
I'm 3 1/2 years down the track and i can say it look me a while to realise there was never any way I could have forgiven my cheating wife.
Although my situation was worse than yours as cheat continued to lie/cheat and didn't actively try to R.
Even so, my advice is focus on how YOU feel about the situation and try to determine whether you ever feel you will feel any other way about her.
For me that is the best way to determine your future.


----------



## ConanHub

Bruno said:


> Thank you for the post. Update on me:
> 
> All is going ok. I'm travelling now, back together on Saturday for a few days, then I'm off again for several more days.
> 
> I get mixed emotions when I'm away, feel myself losing interest, feel myself now thinking about wandering and that never happened before, always thinking that even if she is remorseful and super sorry blah blah blah, I still say to myself, she let herself get wasted, she decided to throw our marriage on the ground and stomp on it, treat it like ****.
> 
> Divorce is a real option. Maybe that's the path, still sorting this out.
> 
> Peace


Make sure to take good care of yourself and put some effort into you time, pursuing your interests.

Regardless of reconciliation or divorce, taking care of your physical /emotional well being should be a top priority.

Too many times overall health is ignored during the stress of recovering from infidelity.


----------



## drifting on

ConanHub said:


> Make sure to take good care of yourself and put some effort into you time, pursuing your interests.
> 
> Regardless of reconciliation or divorce, taking care of your physical /emotional well being should be a top priority.
> 
> Too many times overall health is ignored during the stress of recovering from infidelity.




Quoted for truth. Bruno, you have to get to a healthy place before you consider reconciliation. You also and equally need to be in a better place to divorce. Your focus should be on yourself, your wife should be focusing on herself and the marriage. She dropped the nuclear bomb, the heavy lifting is working on herself and marriage at the same time. Her second order of business should be to make you feel safe with the first being getting herself into IC. This is a long difficult road, either way, reconciliation or divorce. Stay strong.


----------



## MancMan

The worst place to be at times like this is in your own mind. It will play tricks on you, replay things, go over and over and over things you could have done, ask if it was your own fault, etc...

As many have said, it's time to concentrate on yourself and get yourself and your mind fit. Without that their is no way to move forward.

Good luck.


----------



## Bruno

MancMan said:


> The worst place to be at times like this is in your own mind. It will play tricks on you, replay things, go over and over and over things you could have done, ask if it was your own fault, etc...
> 
> As many have said, it's time to concentrate on yourself and get yourself and your mind fit. Without that their is no way to move forward.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks to everyone for posting and reading - even those I don't always agree with, it is appreciated. 

I've been taking care of myself, my work and my kids. My relationship with the wife is still up and down. She is still committed to doing everything and anything to stay in the marriage, and she is earnest in her efforts.

I met the Other Female last night and her take was slightly different, but not inconsistent, and she was very concerned with my well being, kept asking how I am doing and that I should take time for myself - it felt like she had been through it herself. She offered to meet and talk with me anytime, which was great.

It was hard to hear it all again, brought up crappy feelings again that had started to go away. But reading on here, this will certainly take a long time and isn't something that ever goes away. Wife does ask occassionally about our future, usually in a joking/but real way. I went for a long run the other day and she said "I thought you ran away." And I said, "not yet."

Anyway, I'll check in from time to time. Hope you all are doing good.

Peace


----------



## Dyokemm

Glad you are doing better.

In what ways was the other lady’s take on what happened different from your WW’s?


----------



## Malaise

Bruno said:


> *I met the Other Female last night and her take was slightly different, but not inconsistent, *and she was very concerned with my well being, kept asking how I am doing and that I should take time for myself - it felt like she had been through it herself. She offered to meet and talk with me anytime, which was great.
> 
> Peace


No concerns they agreed to a storyline?


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

Something to keep in mind, the other woman said things that were similar, but yet a little different. I can immediately attribute that to two factors, your wife and the woman talked, or she just happen to remember more then your wife. What you need to keep in mind is your wife doesn't remember, yet this woman really provided you with nothing new. Now it could be the other woman was drunk and forgot things too. What disturbs me is that you think she has been through this previously. 

The other woman is then concerned about your well being, another little nugget of not good. This tells me that your wife and other woman have talked about that night and your wife has explained your reaction. Your feelings. So now this woman may be too weak to tell what she really knows to protect you. So maybe this other woman has only told you what your wife has said, albeit, in a different but similar way. 

i don't know if talking with this woman has helped or not, but I don't see it as being helpful. Maybe I'm wrong and perceiving your words different then intended, but I firmly believe that your wife knew exactly what you would come away with after meeting her.


----------



## dreamer2017

Bruno,


I’ve been following your post for a long time and do understand your pain. I believe you have a good marriage and a good wife who made a horrible mistake and she understands the multiple possible outcomes. I hope from the bottom of my heart you consider forgiving her and play a role in helping the family survive this obstacle which I call an opportunity to make the marriage better than before. We all make mistakes in our lives, but survival is based on how you move forward. Please stay true to your family, and it might be the best discussion you will make your entire life.

Blessing to your entire family!!!

The Dreamer


----------



## ABHale

dreamer2017 said:


> Bruno,
> 
> 
> I’ve been following your post for a long time and do understand your pain. I believe you have a good marriage and a good wife who made a horrible mistake and she understands the multiple possible outcomes. I hope from the bottom of my heart you consider forgiving her and play a role in helping the family survive this obstacle which I call an opportunity to make the marriage better than before. We all make mistakes in our lives, but survival is based on how you move forward. Please stay true to your family, and it might be the best discussion you will make your entire life.
> 
> Blessing to your entire family!!!
> 
> The Dreamer



Had a great marriage and had a great wife. 

This all ended with her choice to get drunk and **** the **** out of another man many years younger then her. An intern at her place of work that can tell his story about what happened to anyone he pleases. This wasn’t some stranger she did this with, it’s someone she had been working with all summer. Then decided to give him a going away present.


----------



## ABHale

Forgiveness yes in time. 

Just, something’s are not worth saving. 

It’s up to Bruno if he stays or goes.


----------



## Bruno

ABHale said:


> Forgiveness yes in time.
> 
> Just, something’s are not worth saving.
> 
> It’s up to Bruno if he stays or goes.


Indeed it is up to me. We are still together and I'm taking care of myself still. Pouring everything into me, my work and my kids. 

She is completely remorseful and embarrassed and ashamed as she should be. 

Still love her, always will, but still not sure that I'll continue to be her husband.

Forgiveness and moving on and being open again are very difficult when it comes to cheating. I am very strong and can handle things now, the question is do I want to stay with someone that did this?

Hope you all have a great Xmas, New Year or whatever holiday you celebrate.

Peace.


----------



## ConanHub

Merry Christmas right back to ya!


----------



## Bruno

dreamer2017 said:


> Bruno,
> 
> 
> I’ve been following your post for a long time and do understand your pain. I believe you have a good marriage and a good wife who made a horrible mistake and she understands the multiple possible outcomes. I hope from the bottom of my heart you consider forgiving her and play a role in helping the family survive this obstacle which I call an opportunity to make the marriage better than before. We all make mistakes in our lives, but survival is based on how you move forward. Please stay true to your family, and it might be the best discussion you will make your entire life.
> 
> Blessing to your entire family!!!
> 
> The Dreamer


*Thank you Dreamer. I am in a much better place than I was. It has been 6 months. She is doing all the right things, owning it and is still completely embarrassed and ashamed. 
About 50/50 at this point if I'm going to stick around but than I was looking at apartments for rent last week.

I think about strength and vulnerability all the time. It takes almost inhuman strength to deal with this and continue on and to make yourself vulnerable again to the same person that caused so much pain. There are no guarantees in life.

I also think about do I want to be with someone capable of this kind of behavior? Was it truly a one-off major F/up that really was the result of poor boundaries and expectations?

Anyway, life is all about risk.

Peace and thanks for the post.
*


----------



## Rubix Cubed

And that's the crux of it all in the end. Doesn't matter how remorseful or not, or how sad, sorry, or how many times they cheated. It's "can you live with it" that matters to everyone in this situation. You can almost remove the Wayward from the decision process because once they have screwed up it all boils down to can you live with it and eat the **** sandwich. Answer that and you know what path to take.


----------



## bigfoot

You ought to explore that feeling of D more. I don't mean go and do it, rather, I mean embrace it, visualize it, do the internal separation and mental detaching. I find that when I am torn with going in a new, life changing, and scary direction, I stop fighting and embrace it. I have had more than a few of those moments.

Once I take down my internal barriers and truly commit to the concept that everything is on the table and start moving in a direction, at least internally and maybe making inquiries into logistics, I get a different perspective.

Understand, this is not a drill. This is committing to going a particular route, D, and living that way in your head, heart and perhaps your actions. You may find that route untenable, but in that case, at least you know. You may find it appealing and then you can keep going until you find it untenable or until it is done. 

I guess the long and short is, think D and wrestle with whether you should stay as opposed to staying and wrestling with whether you should D.


----------



## bandit.45

Bruno if her affair is a deal-breaker for you, then it just is. You do not have to spend very much mental energy trying to justify your decision to do so. Some men and women just cannot accept it, and they should never be under pressure from friends or family to accept it. In the end you have to do what is right for the man who looks back at you in the mirror every morning.


----------



## Edmund

Bruno,

I think probably 6 months is enough to tell that you are not going to be able to get past this. You are only at 50/50 now so another 6 months is not going to change your opinion much. She made a terrible mistake (or some people will correct me and say a deliberate choice), but since then has apparently been trying to earn your forgiveness. What she did was bad but I don't think you should just leave the whole situation in limbo another six months. She should be getting the message now that you aren't going to be able to forgive and forget anyway. At this point move her or yourself to the new apartment and tell her you are going to file for D. Sorry to say all this now because initially I thought this was a situation that could be salvaged for the whole family's sake.

I am not faulting you for not being able to get over this terrible thing. Just suggesting that it may not be necessary to go another 6 months if no significant progress is being made on the forgiveness front.

God bless you and family, and hope you survive the holidays.


----------



## sokillme

Bruno said:


> *Thank you Dreamer. I am in a much better place than I was. It has been 6 months. She is doing all the right things, owning it and is still completely embarrassed and ashamed.
> About 50/50 at this point if I'm going to stick around but than I was looking at apartments for rent last week.
> 
> I think about strength and vulnerability all the time. It takes almost inhuman strength to deal with this and continue on and to make yourself vulnerable again to the same person that caused so much pain. There are no guarantees in life.
> 
> I also think about do I want to be with someone capable of this kind of behavior? Was it truly a one-off major F/up that really was the result of poor boundaries and expectations?
> 
> Anyway, life is all about risk.
> 
> Peace and thanks for the post.
> *


How about divorcing her and letting her compete. It may help you as it will give you some control over your own life, which is something I think you are having trouble with and every BS has trouble with. You are now in a marriage that you had no choice in being in. You would have never married the women she is now, yet you ARE married to her. That makes you feel powerless. If you divorce move out date, and let he compete, maybe you love her enough to get back with her, maybe you will meet someone better, but at least you are the one in control of your life agian.


----------



## Satya

Divorce and cleanly move on.

Many of us don't get second chances and fewer of us actually take them when staring us in the face.

You owe it to yourself to learn to live without her in your life, even if for a temporary period of time. Never put you eggs all into one basket when you have options.


----------



## S4tori

I’m sorry but you should be happy that she didn’t get raped in that state...yes it is horrible to know your partner was sleeping with someone else but to be honest-that wasn’t her.
When I was younger I would get drunk every single weekend to the point where other people were telling me what I was doing that night and I would have no clue whatsoever or remembered parts.
You have no idea how dangerous this is.

Alcohol”disables”lets say parts in brain that are responsible for control. Pretty much the person becomes an animal-either violent or sexual. That wasn’t really your wife.

Yes it was incredibly stupid to get drunk and at that age not know what happens when you’re drunk-she made a mistake. But to hold her responsible for the things she has done in almost unconscious state is like blaming the person who got raped for going to a certain party dressed certain way. She didn’t want that to happen and again her conscious mind-that makes her human and who she is-would never do such thing.

I hope you will be able to get over the blaming part-it doesn’t help anyone.

And also...you should wonder a little bit how moral is it to have sex with someone in that state and not mind it because perhaps you’re enjoying it but then when person gets in trouble in that same state not question yourself...? Just a thought no offence.


----------



## GusPolinski

S4tori said:


> I’m sorry but you should be happy that she didn’t get raped in that state...yes it is horrible to know your partner was sleeping with someone else but to be honest-that wasn’t her.
> When I was younger I would get drunk every single weekend to the point where other people were telling me what I was doing that night and I would have no clue whatsoever or remembered parts.
> You have no idea how dangerous this is.
> 
> Alcohol”disables”lets say parts in brain that are responsible for control. Pretty much the person becomes an animal-either violent or sexual. That wasn’t really your wife.
> 
> Yes it was incredibly stupid to get drunk and at that age not know what happens when you’re drunk-she made a mistake. *But to hold her responsible for the things she has done in almost unconscious state is like blaming the person who got raped for going to a certain party dressed certain way.* She didn’t want that to happen and again her conscious mind-that makes her human and who she is-would never do such thing.
> 
> I hope you will be able to get over the blaming part-it doesn’t help anyone.
> 
> And also...you should wonder a little bit how moral is it to have sex with someone in that state and not mind it because perhaps you’re enjoying it but then when person gets in trouble in that same state not question yourself...? Just a thought no offence.


LOL nope


----------



## S4tori

Well you obviously didn’t get what I meant.


----------



## GusPolinski

S4tori said:


> Well you obviously didn’t get what I meant.


I understood what you were attempting to communicate, it’s just that what you were attempting to communicate is bull****.

This wasn’t her first time either drinking or being drunk. She knew she had a problem with alcohol, and yet chose to drink anyway.

While out of town.

And alone with a male co-worker.

She put herself into the exact situation in which something like what happened _could_ happen... and then it happened.

Gee, what a surprise.

She’s responsible for all of that, as well as any actions taken while besotted.

Full stop.


----------



## S4tori

I don’t know his wife, I just gave my judgement on what could be the case because I got the feeling there was one or two kind of opinions over represented in posts(at least at a glance). 
Things aren’t that simple, we are all biased(in this case I mean all of us commenting)and on some level projecting. Still it’s good to take in consideration that this sort of thing that I described does exists. I don’t agree with you that all people”intentionally get drunk so they would do unintentional things”, because it doesn’t make sense to me. It sounded to me more like his wife was looking for an escape in drink and wasn’t expecting this sort of thing to happen at all. But again I don’t know her so...


----------



## Evinrude58

She told her husband she wanted the guy.

That's his problem--- that's everyone's problem with infidelity--- she wanted it.

You can't love your spouse and want sex with another person. At least most people can't.

That's what is so hard to get one's head around--- forgiving a "mistake" when it wasn't the act that is so hard to forgive, it's the mental state of wanting another to start with that is so hard to get past.

This guy can't trust her again, because he has no way of knowing if she still wants the OM, or if she's going to decide if she wants to be with OM #2,3,4 in the future.

It happened once. Why shouldn't it happen again? Lots of men in the world.

When she feels secure and worry free again about him staying, ????

If OP feels she is truly remorseful, I think I would still want to think hard about divorcing.

It's all about how OP feels.

There's no shame in forgiving and trying to save a marriage if it's possible to actually live one another again...


----------



## sokillme

S4tori said:


> I don’t know his wife, I just gave my judgement on what could be the case because I got the feeling there was one or two kind of opinions over represented in posts(at least at a glance).
> Things aren’t that simple, we are all biased(in this case I mean all of us commenting)and on some level projecting. Still it’s good to take in consideration that this sort of thing that I described does exists. I don’t agree with you that all people”intentionally get drunk so they would do unintentional things”, because it doesn’t make sense to me. It sounded to me more like his wife was looking for an escape in drink and wasn’t expecting this sort of thing to happen at all. But again I don’t know her so...


This is probably the only reason he hasn't divorced her already, actually. So I am not sure what your point is. Right now OP seems to be figuring out if he can live with it. This is a direct consequence of her actions. What do you think he should be doing differently? 

It's interesting that your post pretty much presents the situation as rape. Something that even OP's wife doesn't do. Why should OP think of it this way when his wife doesn't?


----------



## ABHale

S4tori said:


> I’m sorry but you should be happy that she didn’t get raped in that state...yes it is horrible to know your partner was sleeping with someone else but to be honest-that wasn’t her.
> When I was younger I would get drunk every single weekend to the point where other people were telling me what I was doing that night and I would have no clue whatsoever or remembered parts.
> You have no idea how dangerous this is.
> 
> Alcohol”disables”lets say parts in brain that are responsible for control. Pretty much the person becomes an animal-either violent or sexual. That wasn’t really your wife.
> 
> Yes it was incredibly stupid to get drunk and at that age not know what happens when you’re drunk-she made a mistake. But to hold her responsible for the things she has done in almost unconscious state is like blaming the person who got raped for going to a certain party dressed certain way. She didn’t want that to happen and again her conscious mind-that makes her human and who she is-would never do such thing.
> 
> I hope you will be able to get over the blaming part-it doesn’t help anyone.
> 
> And also...you should wonder a little bit how moral is it to have sex with someone in that state and not mind it because perhaps you’re enjoying it but then when person gets in trouble in that same state not question yourself...? Just a thought no offence.


This is such BS I don’t know where to start picking it apart. You have obviously not read the whole thread. 

OP’s wife knew she had a problem with drinking and chose to do so. Her excuse was that she thought she could control herself because her gf from work was with her. She would never lose control with her friend there beside her. (The problem she had with drinking was that over the past year or so, she would get very sexually aroused when she would drink)

So everything you have said above is pointless.


----------



## SunCMars

Evinrude58 said:


> There's no shame in forgiving and trying to save a marriage if it's possible to actually love one another again...


Are you getting soft in your old age? :frown2:

Yeah, me too! :smile2:


----------



## drifting on

S4tori said:


> I’m sorry but you should be happy that she didn’t get raped in that state...yes it is horrible to know your partner was sleeping with someone else but to be honest-that wasn’t her.
> When I was younger I would get drunk every single weekend to the point where other people were telling me what I was doing that night and I would have no clue whatsoever or remembered parts.
> You have no idea how dangerous this is.
> 
> Alcohol”disables”lets say parts in brain that are responsible for control. Pretty much the person becomes an animal-either violent or sexual. That wasn’t really your wife.
> 
> Yes it was incredibly stupid to get drunk and at that age not know what happens when you’re drunk-she made a mistake. But to hold her responsible for the things she has done in almost unconscious state is like blaming the person who got raped for going to a certain party dressed certain way. She didn’t want that to happen and again her conscious mind-that makes her human and who she is-would never do such thing.
> 
> I hope you will be able to get over the blaming part-it doesn’t help anyone.
> 
> And also...you should wonder a little bit how moral is it to have sex with someone in that state and not mind it because perhaps you’re enjoying it but then when person gets in trouble in that same state not question yourself...? Just a thought no offence.[
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen a petite woman, about 5’6” weighing approximately 130 pounds walk and talk better then I sober. She drive her car into the side of a school at around 5pm. The first officer pulls up and she reaches into the car and pulls out a vodka bottle. She then begins chugging the bottle in the presence of the officer. She beat her DUI charge because the officer saw her drink after the accident and her attorney stated nobody could say what her alcohol level was when she hit the school. My point, this lady does black out, but not unconsciously, instead she can’t remember exactly what happens at times.
> 
> You comparing rape to passed out drunk is a far fetch, OP’s wife basically lost time she can’t remember but was awake. To compare that to what a person is wearing and asking to be raped is a farce not based in reality. Everyone knows if you rape someone or if you had consensual sex. For a man to rape a woman is beyond me, I’ll never understand how a rapist thinks, that includes date rape drugs. Men know the difference, sadly I think this happens far more often then reported. OP’s wife wasn’t raped, instead she had sex while drunk, a huge difference from rape. Besides, had she been raped the other female coworker would have told OP that his wife was raped. The other female coworker never mentioned anything about rape.
> 
> I am held to consequences for my actions whether drunk or sober, so is everyone else. Being drunk and then using it as an excuse is another thought not based in reality, which you knew, and said she was stupid for getting drunk. Can’t have it both ways, she’s responsible for her actions whether drunk or sober.


----------



## GusPolinski

S4tori said:


> I don’t know his wife, I just gave my judgement on what could be the case because I got the feeling there was one or two kind of opinions over represented in posts(at least at a glance).
> Things aren’t that simple, we are all biased(in this case I mean all of us commenting)and on some level projecting. Still it’s good to take in consideration that this sort of thing that I described does exists. *I don’t agree with you that all people”intentionally get drunk so they would do unintentional things”, because it doesn’t make sense to me.* It sounded to me more like his wife was looking for an escape in drink and wasn’t expecting this sort of thing to happen at all. But again I don’t know her so...


Not sure how you got that out of what I posted.

Anyway, we are all responsible for our respective actions.

Period.

Being inebriated excuses NOTHING (nor should it), especially when it could foreseeably lead to any number of things for which one might attempt to cash in a “But I was drunk!” token later on.

Because anyone that’s ever been drunk was sober going into it.

Also, knowing/not knowing OP’s wife has precisely nothing to do with anything whatsoever.


----------



## Malaise

SunCMars said:


> Are you getting soft in your old age? :frown2:
> 
> Yeah, me too! :smile2:


There are pills for that.

:wink2:


----------



## S4tori

This is a forum so I gave my opinion about situation I know something about from position of that his wife was in. I never said OP should think differently but what’s wrong with challenging his opinion even for one detail? I supposed that’s what forums are all about.

I wasn’t comparing it to rape. I said that getting so heavily drunk is plain dangerous-people fall under cars, get raped in that condition and god knows what not next. It seems that some people on here all the sudden forget what being so drunk means and focus on blaming the person as if she was purely sober.
What I wanted to say is that in that condition I got raped more than once. At that state how the hell do you even define consent? People can literally drag you where they want and you doing something without passing out doesn’t mean you were actually that sober to know what you’re doing, especially that you WANTED it. I mean it’s just overlooking some simple facts that some people are overlooking here because they are focusing on blaming his wife as if that’s the solution. As I said there’s lot of projecting here, including mine but at least I feel I was in bit more similar condition as her than most of you. 

And if you want to go there, I would sooner put this case on spectrum side toward rape than it being closer to consentual willing sex. I didn’t say it’s rape but in the same way people are jumping to conclusions in another way too, that it must have been fully consentual sex.
As far as I read he said his wife didn’t find him attractive in any way and she was deeply shaken with what happened. People don’t go through this amount of distress when they willingly do something even if it’s cheating that most people regret.

And I’ll end it here because I didn’t want to make a debate out of this I don’t think it’s appropriate, cheers...


----------



## Satya

Why can't people be held accountable for getting drunk to the point of being inebriated?

Or is THAT someone else's fault? The bartender? Peer pressure?

This story is a case of knock-on effect and poor choices based upon an originating, poor choice. Being horrendously drunk doesn't magically remove your responsibility for the subsequent poor choices. 

Learn to handle your drink, if your personal safety is valuable to you. You are responsible for yourself. The moment you put that responsibility squarely in someone else's hands, you as good as forfeit your safety.

JMO.


----------



## MattMatt

I think I might have mentioned this before but I got very, very drunk once. I now realise I got that drunk in order to give myself an excuse for cheating on my wife in a revenge affair.


----------



## GusPolinski

S4tori said:


> This is a forum so I gave my opinion about situation I know something about from position of that his wife was in. I never said OP should think differently but what’s wrong with challenging his opinion even for one detail? I supposed that’s what forums are all about.
> 
> I wasn’t comparing it to rape. I said that getting so heavily drunk is plain dangerous-people fall under cars, get raped in that condition and god knows what not next. It seems that some people on here all the sudden forget what being so drunk means and focus on blaming the person as if she was purely sober.
> What I wanted to say is that in that condition I got raped more than once. At that state how the hell do you even define consent? People can literally drag you where they want and you doing something without passing out doesn’t mean you were actually that sober to know what you’re doing, especially that you WANTED it. I mean it’s just overlooking some simple facts that some people are overlooking here because they are focusing on blaming his wife as if that’s the solution. As I said there’s lot of projecting here, including mine but at least I feel I was in bit more similar condition as her than most of you.
> 
> And if you want to go there, I would sooner put this case on spectrum side toward rape than it being closer to consentual willing sex. I didn’t say it’s rape but in the same way people are jumping to conclusions in another way too, that it must have been fully consentual sex.
> As far as I read he said his wife didn’t find him attractive in any way and she was deeply shaken with what happened. People don’t go through this amount of distress when they willingly do something even if it’s cheating that most people regret.
> 
> And I’ll end it here because I didn’t want to make a debate out of this I don’t think it’s appropriate, cheers...


So imagine that neither party is sober enough to give consent —

Who raped who?

Also, opinions can be wrong.

And yours is.

Understand that I don’t say any of this to trivialize anything that you may have experienced personally.

That said, I would suggest that anyone who makes a habit of drinking past the point of being able to give legal consent read @Satya’s last post in this thread — over and over and over.

There are wolves in the forest and, to them, the sound of “I’ll have another...” is akin to the scent of fresh blood.


----------



## S4tori

Well opinions aren’t facts so you saying it’s”wrong”doesn’t make it anything but your opinion that can also be wrong. 
And how do you know in what condition that other person with his partner was in? No one was at the spot what her coworker saw wasn’t the whole story and everyone is jumping to conclusion just making OP feel even more resentful. If all three of them gave their stories than we would have something to talk about.

Either way my attitude is that if you done something in heavily drunk or drugged state that you would never do sober that’s not something to blame yourself for neither is that who you really are as a person. At that point you’re a lab rat and you can’t certainly know how exactly you will act given the substance effects. I personally wasn’t aiming to get hooked up when I was drunk but it seems others have made decision for me and like OP most of the time I would get sexual rather than aggressive and wouldn’t have much control or was able to think at the spot what’s going on. Most people drink to escape reality. There’s no word about why she drinks but the OP mentions mental health issues. It’s very one sided to just shout”cheater!”. Yeah the fact is she slept with someone but since he’s her partner he should care more than about facts.

And again that explains my attitude about trying to work it out with your partner no matter what. I’m going through a lot, including some of the things OP is and I still believe no matter what relationship can work if people work as a team and are both willing to work on it. There’s a lot of ego hurt going on and that’s normal. I have been going through this with my partner for at least a year and things are getting better and we are getting closer in a different way and are both working on ourselves.

Life is short so why not take a risk and try what you think is unbearable? It’s all about challenging yourself to grow.


----------



## S4tori

MattMatt said:


> I think I might have mentioned this before but I got very, very drunk once. I now realise I got that drunk in order to give myself an excuse for cheating on my wife in a revenge affair.


That’s a different story. You obviously had an intention there and just lacked courage to do it in sober state.


----------



## Andy1001

S4tori said:


> I don’t know his wife, I just gave my judgement on what could be the case because I got the feeling there was one or two kind of opinions over represented in posts(at least at a glance).
> Things aren’t that simple, we are all biased(in this case I mean all of us commenting)and on some level projecting. Still it’s good to take in consideration that this sort of thing that I described does exists. I don’t agree with you that all people”intentionally get drunk so they would do unintentional things”, because it doesn’t make sense to me. It sounded to me more like his wife was looking for an escape in drink and wasn’t expecting this sort of thing to happen at all. But again I don’t know her so...


I have read every post you have on tam and you carry the same Bull**** message in all of them.Men lay down and let your wives **** all and sundry and then work on yourself to get HER to reconcile.
In the one other post you have you refused to continue seeing a therapist because she didn’t agree with YOUR opinion on porn.Thats the idea of therapy,to get another opinion other than your own.
Are you just being deliberately antagonistic,do you get some sort of depraved kick out of giving the worst possible advice to people who are in pain.
Are you a cuckold is that the reason for your kowtowing attitude?
You say you don’t allow a television in your home because your son may see something you don’t agree with.Is it possible that you are projecting your own worries on to your son about porn?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

S4tori said:


> Well opinions aren’t facts so you saying it’s”wrong”doesn’t make it anything but your opinion that can also be wrong.
> And how do you know in what condition that other person with his partner was in? No one was at the spot what her coworker saw wasn’t the whole story and everyone is jumping to conclusion just making OP feel even more resentful. If all three of them gave their stories than we would have something to talk about.
> 
> Either way my attitude is that if you done something in heavily drunk or drugged state that you would never do sober that’s not something to blame yourself for neither is that who you really are as a person. At that point you’re a lab rat and you can’t certainly know how exactly you will act given the substance effects. I personally wasn’t aiming to get hooked up when I was drunk but it seems others have made decision for me and like OP most of the time I would get sexual rather than aggressive and wouldn’t have much control or was able to think at the spot what’s going on. Most people drink to escape reality. There’s no word about why she drinks but the OP mentions mental health issues. It’s very one sided to just shout”cheater!”. Yeah the fact is she slept with someone but since he’s her partner he should care more than about facts.


Interesting rewriting of the story. No one forced her, injected her or tricked her into drinking this much. No, she wasn't anything like a lab rat, she had a choice and knew what she did. She is a cheater and it isn't one sided. No, he isn't lucky she didn't get raped. She KNEW EXACTLY how she was when she was drunk. She acted this way with her husband on a REPEATED basis.



> Married for 16 years, wife barely drank until the last 6. *When she gets really drunk, she turns into a sex gremlim, completely out of control. **This has happened 4-5 times, and always with me, until recently.*


----------



## S4tori

Andy1001 said:


> I have read every post you have on tam and you carry the same Bull**** message in all of them.Men lay down and let your wives **** all and sundry and then work on yourself to get HER to reconcile.
> In the one other post you have you refused to continue seeing a therapist because she didn’t agree with YOUR opinion on porn.Thats the idea of therapy,to get another opinion other than your own.
> Are you just being deliberately antagonistic,do you get some sort of depraved kick out of giving the worst possible advice to people who are in pain.
> Are you a cuckold is that the reason for your kowtowing attitude?
> You say you don’t allow a television in your home because your son may see something you don’t agree with.Is it possible that you are projecting your own worries on to your son about porn?


First off all step off ok, you are getting in my face. If you haven’t noticed this is forum about relationships and I have so far commented two or three similar subjects.

Second of all you bringing in topic I opened that don’t relate to this one just to trash me is bit pathetic, especially since you’re quoting things I haven’t said.
My son is one year old and we don’t have tv because we use other devices to watch what my partner and I want. We decided together we don’t want TV so please...your attitude of”*****y women want it all”is just screaming in your post. You sound deeply frustrated and just pouring it all out on me. Thanks but I have nothing to do with your life.

Not liking a therapist is completely normal. I don’t need people telling me I should like pornography when I decided as an adult this is morally something that’s not part of my world. I have done plenty of reading on pornography issue and the therapist seemed to follow very shallow approach to it which wouldn’t help whether she shares my belief or not. I don’t need to question myself about whether I accept pornography, maybe you should if you have so much problems with someone not accepting it.
You obviously feel offended by my attitude and that again is not my fault since I have never been offensive in language.

What I advised is what soothes me. I have read plenty of posts that I wouldn’t find helpful so? As long as it’s not offensive as yours people writing their honest opinion shouldn’t hurt anyone. I was assuming we are all adults here taking things with grain of salt. People should remember that at the other side of a screen is a real human being. I don’t think you would tell all these things in my face. It’s absolutely too aggressive.


----------



## S4tori

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Interesting rewriting of the story. No one forced her, injected her or tricked her into drinking this much. No, she wasn't anything like a lab rat, she had a choice and knew what she did. She is a cheater and it isn't one sided. No, he isn't lucky she didn't get raped. She KNEW EXACTLY how she was when she was drunk. She acted this way with her husband on a REPEATED basis.


I don’t know where the world would end if everyone was thinking so bitterly, accusive, non-frogiving, non-understanding as some of these comments...oh wait I suppose it would look like it does today in most of marriages. You are taking comparisons too literally.

I’m just wondering why is getting so drunk to that point with your partner ok? Because he enjoys it? That person is still half-conscious and even her partner can take advantage of her in that state. Since he realised very well how out of control she is at that point he should have more insight in how this wasn’t as intentional as everyone is suggesting.


----------



## Andy1001

What I advised is what soothes me. I have read plenty of posts that I wouldn’t find helpful.
This is what you wrote s4tori.

If advising someone to just accept that his wife had a one night stand in one post and telling another man who’s wife had a string of affairs to work on himself “soothes”you then you have more problems than you may think.


----------



## S4tori

Satya said:


> Why can't people be held accountable for getting drunk to the point of being inebriated?
> 
> Or is THAT someone else's fault? The bartender? Peer pressure?
> 
> This story is a case of knock-on effect and poor choices based upon an originating, poor choice. Being horrendously drunk doesn't magically remove your responsibility for the subsequent poor choices.
> 
> Learn to handle your drink, if your personal safety is valuable to you. You are responsible for yourself. The moment you put that responsibility squarely in someone else's hands, you as good as forfeit your safety.
> 
> JMO.


Yes and I said she made a mistake by drinking at all. She obviously has issues which aren’t that visible on this forum because we’re hearing one side.
But to say that after you got in half conscious state you are responsible for everything that happens because you got in that state by your choice is bit contradictory. If she was to take responsibility based on her choices then how can she be held for responsibility for what happened in state where she wasn’t fully able to make choices? The behaviour that was described doesn’t sound like”making choices”at all it sounds like primitive behaviour which it was. There was no thinking there or that capacity to process right from wrong. And that’s what I said thank god that something worse didn’t happen, just from observers point of view knowing how in general getting that drunk is not very fun at all.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

S4tori said:


> I don’t know where the world would end if everyone was thinking so bitterly, accusive, non-frogiving, non-understanding as some of these comments...


It would be full of history rewrites where authors insult others when they are really projecting their own insecurities..



> You are taking comparisons too literally.


No, you used a poor analogy, don't blame me. You said "lab rat," there is only one comparison. Lab rats are caged, fed a certain diet, experimented on and studied with no choice in the matter. No, I am not taking your terrible comparison literally. If I did, I'd be accusing you of implying he is a controlling beast, who jailed his wife, forced her go on these trips to see if she would cheat just to get out of the marriage.




> I’m just wondering why is getting so drunk to that point with your partner ok? Because he enjoys it? That person is still half-conscious and even her partner can take advantage of her in that state. Since he realised very well how out of control she is at that point he should have more insight in how this wasn’t as intentional as everyone is suggesting.





> But to say that after you got in half conscious state you are responsible for everything that happens because you got in that state by your choice is bit contradictory.


She chooses to drink to excess, no one forced her.
Ah yes, now it is his fault gotcha and he is a spousal rapist because you ASSUME she is half conscious, which is the EXACT opposite of "sex gremlin." Enjoy your rewriting of the thread, my portion of the derail is done.


----------



## S4tori

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It would be full of history rewrites where authors insult others when they are really projecting their own insecurities..
> 
> No, you used a poor analogy, don't blame me. You said "lab rat," there is only one comparison. Lab rats are caged, fed a certain diet, experimented on and studied with no choice in the matter. No, I am not taking your terrible comparison literally. If I did, I'd be accusing you of implying he is a controlling beast, who jailed his wife, forced her go on these trips to see if she would cheat just to get out of the marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She chooses to drink to excess, no one forced her.
> Ah yes, now it is his fault gotcha and he is a spousal rapist because you ASSUME she is half conscious, which is the EXACT opposite of "sex gremlin." Enjoy your rewriting of the thread, my portion of the derail is done.


Ok you folks are holding a grudge. A LOT. I used”lab rat”simply because every time you drink it’s an experiment regards how it will affect you. So please...you’re just going too far. I don’t feel the need to explain what you got wrong in my posts because it is completely different than what I actually wrote or think and you writing in such gross way doesn’t make me feel like conversating further, it’s humiliating.


----------



## MovingForward

Bruno said:


> My emotions are still sore, but I was livid for a month. It's been two months since the cheating now and I am finally able to face it without having to leave the house and walk. Everything I read said don't make decisions when feeling red, and I believe that to be good advice.
> 
> Many people online are of the mentality, eff that and get a divorce ASAP. I'm not sure that is best. Some people have huge egos and can't deal with things.
> 
> I'm trying to approach this as rationally as I can. We have two kids and they need to be considered.


My XW never admitted the one night stand but was super remorseful about 'acting' bad but never admitted. Eventually the one night stand turned into an affair and she left me.

Only you know your wife but be careful and keep your eyes and ears open, if you can get past it great but just keep in mind it could happen again,


----------



## S4tori

Andy1001 said:


> What I advised is what soothes me. I have read plenty of posts that I wouldn’t find helpful.
> This is what you wrote s4tori.
> 
> If advising someone to just accept that his wife had a one night stand in one post and telling another man who’s wife had a string of affairs to work on himself “soothes”you then you have more problems than you may think.


I never said to just”accept”his wife’s”one night stand”neither have I wrote that the man should work on himself. You completely misinterpreted what I wrote.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

S4tori said:


> I used”lab rat”simply because every time you drink it’s an experiment regards how it will affect you.


 Hahahaha The first few times maybe after six years no, this is completely and utterly wrong.



> So please...you’re just going too far.


 Says the person who just claimed "every time you drink it’s an experiment regards how it will affect you."


----------



## ConanHub

S4tori said:


> Yes and I said she made a mistake by drinking at all. She obviously has issues which aren’t that visible on this forum because we’re hearing one side.
> But to say that after you got in half conscious state you are responsible for everything that happens because you got in that state by your choice is bit contradictory. If she was to take responsibility based on her choices then how can she be held for responsibility for what happened in state where she wasn’t fully able to make choices? The behaviour that was described doesn’t sound like”making choices”at all it sounds like primitive behaviour which it was. There was no thinking there or that capacity to process right from wrong. And that’s what I said thank god that something worse didn’t happen, just from observers point of view knowing how in general getting that drunk is not very fun at all.


Hmmm.

A couple points. I agree with some of your perceptions but your conclusions seem off.

She wasn't too drunk to suck and f on a man. 

People who drink and drive are responsible for what happens.

She went to another man's home, purposely drank with him until drunk and fd him.

She definitely knew enough.

When Mrs. C and I were first dating, a guy I went to school with got drunk and gave her a hard time at her work. She was working at a convenience store at the time.

He laid hands on her and groped her. She isn't a fading violet and shoved him away.

He might have been drinking but he did sexually assault my girlfriend.

I did "something" and he apologized, on his knees in front of customers and her fellow employees the next day.

Writing off repercussions or mitigating someone's actions because of inebriation is not usually acceptable to me. There are possible exceptions but I definitely don't believe this is one of them.


----------



## drifting on

S4tori

I am truly sorry that you have been raped, nobody should have to go through such a brutal event, but the sad fact is it does happen. In this case that we are speaking of, OP’s wife knew she had a problem if you will. This problem was drinking to much and turning into a sex fiend. Now if you knew of this, wouldn’t you take an action against it? Wouldn’t you not drink knowing how you yourself becomes? Alcoholism runs in my family, on both my wife’s and my side. Aren’t they responsible for their actions? Aren’t they responsible if we get them help, become sober, and then they decide to drink again? This why family often times turns their back to these people, it’s called tough love and the last final act they take so they are not an enabler. 

If people aren’t held responsible for their actions and decisions, what kind of society would we be? What if, and I say this gently, that the person who raped you got off using your same argument? That’s why what you are saying isn’t going to hold water. I may agree or disagree with your perceptions of being in an intoxicated state, but even our court system holds you accountable. Is our court system perfect, of course not, but it is what we have at the moment. 

Some of your statements I find to be appallingly antagonistic towards others, but it is your opinion. However, you have to understand consequences to actions is a form of one policing themselves. Some of your posts seem to lead one to believe they can do whatever without consequence and blame it on alcohol or drugs. Not true at all, I fight people on a daily basis to intoxicating drugs, sometimes to the point I get injured. My consequence, that I may not be able to run and play with my boys, or go for a long walk with my wife, because of my injuries. Actions have consequences, we may not like them, but they do all the same. 

In this case there was a problem identified long before she began drinking. She did not take the necessary steps and became that person she may not have wanted to become. But she became that person nonetheless, and I feel she became scared only because she now knows what she is capable of. Whether drunk or sober, she knew of this problem, but did nothing to prevent it from happening. Not only does she now face a very uncertain future with her husband, but also with her livelihood as in her career. Companies have much to to be careful for when a person of power has sex with an intern.


----------



## S4tori

@ConanHub just because she wasn’t just lying there helplessly doesn’t mean she did what she really wanted. This is very complex and I can’t say anything more than that since I’m not her.

I had drunk driving in mind as comparison. The thing here is that she wasn’t physically harming anyone or putting someone in danger, as far as we know. More importantly, you need to drink certain amount to still be capable of even sitting in the car or driving further than few meteres, she could have been far from that stage where you could be held accountable. 

The guy that sexually assaulted your I suppose partner-I don’t know how drunk he was but either way he was trying to harm someone while in this case OPs partner didn’t. 

It’s also worth adding that women and men don’t respond the same to alcohol and it also definitely depends form individual to individual as OP noticed.

I don’t see the point in trying to apply”one fits all”logic. She harmed herself more than anyone-risked pregnancy, STDs, rape or being accused of rape , job and finally her marriage. This is obviously about individual that hasn’t sought help on time.


----------



## Primrose

S4tori said:


> Alcohol”disables”lets say parts in brain that are responsible for control. Pretty much the person becomes an animal-either violent or sexual. That wasn’t really your wife.
> 
> Yes it was incredibly stupid to get drunk and at that age not know what happens when you’re drunk-she made a mistake. But to hold her responsible for the things she has done in almost unconscious state is like blaming the person who got raped for going to a certain party dressed certain way. She didn’t want that to happen and again her conscious mind-that makes her human and who she is-would never do such thing.


My dad's best friend was killed by a drunk driver.

It wasn't the driver's fault, though. The alcohol had such control of him that night. Besides, it's not as if the driver wanted this to happen. In his conscious mind, he knew better and would never do such a thing. He made a mistake.

That's why we all forgive him and do not wish for him to be prosecuted or held accountable. We wish to let him go with a pat on the back and a, "We understand, Steve. That wasn't really you." 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

/sarc


----------



## S4tori

@Primrose I’m sorry for your loss.
I added later what I think about drunk driving and how I don’t feel it should all be put in the same basket.


----------



## Evinrude58

Total derail.

The wife said she liked the OM. Had feelings for him.

OP said she turns into a sex gremlin when drunk. I disagree. She IS a sex gremlin (nothing wrong with that) and doesn't let it out u less drunk.

So we can only conclude that she liked the OM, wanted to screw his brains out, and when she had e pugh to drink to let her release her inhibitions, she did what she already wanted to do. 
OP's wife said she wanted the OM. She has accepted she did wrong (pretty clear to me), and has asked forgiveness.

I think OP could forgive the act. But, the problem is that she can't help but want the OM. That's not necessarily her fault. She may in the future want a different man. That won't be her fault necessarily, either. She wants what she wants.

OP has to either accept that he has a wife that likes/wants another man, and hopes she won't anymore, and moves forward. But I don't necessarily think it's possible to forgive her wanting another dude. It's possible to accept it, and move on. Whether OP trusts that she won't want another guy in the future is up to him. 
I think if she wants another guy in the future, she'll eventually find a way to do the sane thing again.

Personally, all the "painful sex" with OP, and then banging the hell out of this OM's painless penis----- that really bothers me and has made me think all along that there was more to this story.

OP: did you get a paternity test in your child?
And: Does your wife still complain Bout sex being painful with you, and if so, has there been a resolution?

None of my business. Just asking for the sake of understanding.


----------



## MattMatt

S4tori said:


> That’s a different story. You obviously had an intention there and just lacked courage to do it in sober state.


Actually I think it is a very similar story. Sadly


----------



## ABHale

S4tori said:


> That’s a different story. You obviously had an intention there and just lacked courage to do it in sober state.


Did you even read her confession to OP?

She knew for a fact the more she drank the more she wanted/needed sex. She knew this and started drinking anyway. She wasn’t to drunk to remember how it started.


----------



## ABHale

S4tori said:


> Yes and I said she made a mistake by drinking at all. She obviously has issues which aren’t that visible on this forum because we’re hearing one side.
> But to say that after you got in half conscious state you are responsible for everything that happens because you got in that state by your choice is bit contradictory. If she was to take responsibility based on her choices then how can she be held for responsibility for what happened in state where she wasn’t fully able to make choices? The behaviour that was described doesn’t sound like”making choices”at all it sounds like primitive behaviour which it was. There was no thinking there or that capacity to process right from wrong. And that’s what I said thank god that something worse didn’t happen, just from observers point of view knowing how in general getting that drunk is not very fun at all.


This is what the OP’s wife said:

My wife said that her lost complete control and started kissing this guy and had a session for about 20-30 mins in another room.

At which point her female co worker, passed out on the couch woke up and started calling my wife's name.

She started the whole thing. She was not taken advantage of. If anybody was, it was the intern she jumped.


----------



## Evinrude58

I've been thinking of a different drunk woman


----------



## Bruno

bigfoot said:


> You ought to explore that feeling of D more. I don't mean go and do it, rather, I mean embrace it, visualize it, do the internal separation and mental detaching. I find that when I am torn with going in a new, life changing, and scary direction, I stop fighting and embrace it. I have had more than a few of those moments.
> 
> Once I take down my internal barriers and truly commit to the concept that everything is on the table and start moving in a direction, at least internally and maybe making inquiries into logistics, I get a different perspective.
> 
> Understand, this is not a drill. This is committing to going a particular route, D, and living that way in your head, heart and perhaps your actions. You may find that route untenable, but in that case, at least you know. You may find it appealing and then you can keep going until you find it untenable or until it is done.
> 
> I guess the long and short is, think D and wrestle with whether you should stay as opposed to staying and wrestling with whether you should D.


*
Hi everyone. And Happy New Year...

I've decided to remain in the marriage and give it a go. She is completely committed and continues to do anything to keep the marriage in tact and is working hard on herself. She doesn't like to talk about that night and she feels disgusting and starts to cry when I bring it up - and she isn't faking that.
I've accepted it, and forgiven her and am in a much better place.
There will always be two roads and examining myself, my life, the commitments I've made as a man, husband and father are real to me. She is the one that broke the marriage and I could have walked away. It would have completely destroyed her. And i've said it before, she is the adulterer and has to live with that and I know it pains her. If our kids found out that would also destroy her. 
It takes a big heart to try and find love again for someone who did something horrible and I'm going to give it a try. It is also almost impossible to be empathetic, but that is what it will take at some point.

Some will say, be a man and walk away with your dignity. I get that and I can see that path sometimes, but that also comes with bitterness, shame, pride and lots of other crap that don't lead to long term happiness.
Some will say, be a man and fight for yourself and your marriage. 
The idea of divorce is also real and doesn't feel like it would be that catastrophic if that still comes. My parents got divorced when I was young and I always thought, what a failure I would be if I did get divorced. Not so much anymore.

Anyway - I'll post again at some point.

Peace to everyone, thanks for all the posts (positive and negative)...*


----------



## Andy1001

Good luck Bruno I hope things work out for you.


----------



## Satya

Only time and her consistent actions will tell, @Bruno.

All the best.


----------



## Convict

Good luck and God speed. I can only imagine the inner turmoil you went through to chart this path for yourself....stay strong and also watch out for your kids


----------



## Edmund

Good decision Bruno, IMO, to give her another chance. I hope you can heal and have a good life going forward.


----------



## Malaise

Good luck Bruno..

but...

"She doesn't like to talk about that night and she feels disgusting and starts to cry when I bring it up - and she isn't faking that."

Cynical me thinks she's just avoiding and manipulating.

Maybe it's me. 

Still, I wish you well.


----------



## GusPolinski

@Bruno, is she still off the booze?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Malaise said:


> Good luck Bruno..
> 
> but...
> 
> "She doesn't like to talk about that night and she feels disgusting and starts to cry when I bring it up - and she isn't faking that."
> 
> *Cynical me thinks she's just avoiding and manipulating.*
> 
> Maybe it's me.
> 
> Still, I wish you well.


That was my first thought too.


----------



## dreamer2017

Bravo Bruno,

My hope is that everything will work out for you and your family and I will continue to keep you in my prayers. There will be some obstacles (I call opportunities) you will face, but I believe you will make it.

Blessings,
Dreamer


----------



## bandit.45

If she isn't willing to talk about what she did, that means she is not facing what she did, and thus she will not learn from her experience. Until she faces it, talks about it and takes steps to rebuild her boundaries, she will be susceptible to cheating again down the road.


----------



## WilliamM

Well, a contrite and repentant wife is fun to have. 

Mine has been living up to my expectations for decades, and I have found I do love her very much.

But I have to say the fact your wife "doesn't like to talk about that night" is a bad thing. She should hang her head and say yes, I will talk about it in every detail without the slightest hesitation, because you have asked it of me my husband. If that's what you want, then that is what you should get, with no hesitation at all.


----------



## Noble1

Good luck to you.

While you are moving on to forgiveness, do not forget and it may not seem fair you will have to verify for a long while yet.


----------



## Graywolf2

Bruno said:


> And i've said it before, she is the adulterer and has to live with that and I know it pains her. If our kids found out that would also destroy her.


You’re projecting your attitude onto her. It’s how you would feel if you woke up one day and had the memory of being unfaithful. There is something called self selection. She did cheat so she will not feel as bad as you imagine yourself feeling.

People self select when they donate blood. That group of people is nicer than the population in general. People self select when they cheat. That group of people think cheating is less bad than the general population does. There is an even larger gap between that group and the group that would never cheat.


----------



## Yeswecan

Good luck, sir! Keep us posted.


----------



## Chaparral

I don't believe there has actually been a timeline of he rexcessive drinking. Could it be her over the top drinking is an escape from the knowledge of he MS? You have to assume her heightened amorousness has only been turned on her husband. Correct? There is no reason for Bruno or his wife to assume she drinks and then chases anything that walks.

There is also nothing said that says she gets blackout drunk every time she drinks. I expect she had no reason to believe she would automatically get drunk when she did or that she would be attracted to the young man under any circumstances.

I can also believe she may not remember what they did. Its been said they were interrupted by the other woman there and Bruno hasn't said what she corroborated. Been there done that. I never had a clue I might get black out drunk those few times I did.

I think Bruno should insist on total abstinence and be thankful nothing worse happened. If as some suggest there is more and he believes it he should do a lot more investigating including a polygraph. Aamof, he can't be sure he has been cheated on.

From my own experience I would never be in a relationship with a person that has to travel...........among other things.


----------



## ConanHub

Best wishes Bruno.

If you want to talk about anything with your wife, she needs to grow up and talk with you about it.

It surely will be uncomfortable or even painful for her but she needs to consider just how much more pain her actions have heaped on you.

If you want to hear it, she needs to talk about it.

Take care and I certainly hope this year is better for you than the last one.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

You have chosen a most difficult path to endure and walk down. That doesn’t mean you have chosen the right or wrong path, just that you feel this is your best path to follow. It will take much more then just heart or love for you, it will be a commitment, rebuilding, repairing, vulnerability, empathy, compassion, respect, and communication to start. You will have difficult days, numb days, and days you will question what you chose. Don’t let this scare you, but rather think that this is how it must be done. Many nights you will cry together, cry alone, or just holding each other silently knowing the pain you both feel. 

Leave nothing unturned, create boundaries, and repair yourselves to be a healthier couple. Work hard for what you both want, rebuild your foundation for your marriage to stand on. During this you will both need to help carry one another, support each other to get to the next level. I believe this can be achieved by you both, but @Satya was correct that time and actions by your wife will show if she has it within her to change. To learn and grow as a safe spouse who respects and honors the boundaries in place. 

I wish you the best Bruno, best of luck on the path of reconciliation.


----------



## skerzoid

Bruno,

I know not what is the best road for you to take, for only you know what you feel and see what is happening in your situation. If a wife shows remorse, and a husband believes it is true, reconciliation can happen if they still truly love one another. People here have seen false remorse so often that it makes them caution you. Only time will tell. Good luck to you on your journey, and keep us in your thoughts as we will keep you in ours.


----------



## VodkaR1

Wow. Im very late to this party but Id like to share thoughts.

Bruno, Ive had this exact same thing happen many years ago in a previous relationship. Im going to tell you that this is more about you. Look inwards rather than outwards

Do you love your wife
Enough to forgive
Do you believe that humans make mistakes
Does your wife bring you joy
Enough that shes worth keeping
Do you believe she loves you the same

Lifes short man. Too short to hate people forever. Make the call. It looks like you did. With the divorce rate as high as it is, is anyone perfect?

If you said no to the questions above, Id move on and try again. Always seek happiness

I will tell you though...if you decide its worth it, youll have to heal and let it go. Cant be taking jabs at the wife and bringing it up for years to come. Youll surely be divorced. All or nothing man. If it happens again you can always leave. And dont seek revenge... that starts and endless cycle on the path to destruction. Trust me I know


----------



## chillymorn69

Hows your sex life?

If i rememger she was quite inhibited!

How are you addressing that?


----------



## Bruno

Hi All,

Just want to give an update. 

Still lots of ups and downs, but things are on the right track. I feel great and understand that I am responsible for my own happiness. She continues to do anything and completely owns what she did. 

As I mentioned before I can see myself happy with or without her and committed to trying to build a better, stronger marriage. 
If it works, great, it not, so be it. I will go all-in though and leave nothing back. Life is short for sure.
Lastly, when I'm running, I come back to the old saying:
fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me.

And as I've said in the past, I do appreciate all of the feedback and support.

Wishing everyone happiness,

Bruno


----------



## drifting on

Bruno said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just want to give an update.
> 
> Still lots of ups and downs, but things are on the right track. I feel great and understand that I am responsible for my own happiness. She continues to do anything and completely owns what she did.
> 
> As I mentioned before I can see myself happy with or without her and committed to trying to build a better, stronger marriage.
> If it works, great, it not, so be it. I will go all-in though and leave nothing back. Life is short for sure.
> Lastly, when I'm running, I come back to the old saying:
> fool me once, shame on you
> fool me twice, shame on me.
> 
> And as I've said in the past, I do appreciate all of the feedback and support.
> 
> Wishing everyone happiness,
> 
> Bruno




Bruno 

These ups and downs last for three years, some days you may look back and feel sadness. This is a much different feeling that what you feel now. Your ups and downs now involve pain, that pain does give in to sadness at what you feel you’ve lost. What you’ve lost is huge in so many ways, your marriage, your safety, your trust, your self esteem, your knowing what life was, your beliefs, and on and on. All of this can be repaired with hard work and counseling. One problem I had was trying to work on myself and the marriage. Since I wasn’t healthy I struggled to work with my wife. I didn’t trust her, I wanted her near and then gone, but when I knew in my heart I’m ok with or without her, it changed for the better. I became stronger, my self esteem grew exponentially, and my self respect came back. That’s when I had moments that reconciliation was worth it, because my wife grew in these areas too. 

By no means are you going to have an easy path, it will be difficult filled with highs and lows. Being all in is mandatory, but this new all in is so much wiser then what you were before. You now know that you are fine without her, this takes fear out of your way, and now you decide from a position of strength. Judging from your posts I think your wife is reconciliation material, even with her faults, and they are huge. She travels, liquor is everywhere, and she has/had weak boundaries. What should scare me the most is the drinking, you too, and this is what is going to be the deciding factor. How she handles liquor when traveling, when your traveling, how she drinks in general. This is a problem many people struggle with, adding infidelity seems like pouring gas on a fire to extinguish it. So in my opinion you need to monitor her closely as to how she handles the liquor in the beginning, and then the rest of your life.


----------



## dreamer2017

Dear Bruno,

I enjoyed reading your update and the progress you and your family have made. I offer you many blessings to you and your family for many years to come.

Be Bless,
Dreamer


----------



## Malaise

*She continues to do anything and completely owns what she did. *

Does that include not talking about it?

*She doesn't like to talk about that night and she feels disgusting and starts to cry when I bring it up 

*
If the above is still the case then she's not owning it.


----------



## Machjo

...


----------



## VladDracul

Just remember, at best you can only do half the job at building a stronger marriage. And in your situation, a stronger marriage will only happen if your wife believes your the only one she wants, nobody does it for her like you do and anybody else is a distant plan B. Out of the two of you, the chick need to love you more.


----------



## Cromer

​


lifeistooshort said:


> Its amazing to me, as a 43 year old woman, that a grown woman with a husband, kids, and a good marriage would trash it for a 24 year old punk with nothing to offer.


Just reading this thread and had to post. I know a 43-year-old woman who trashed her marriage, two lives and her family for a 26-year-old punk who dumped her.


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> You have chosen a most difficult path to endure and walk down. That doesn’t mean you have chosen the right or wrong path, just that you feel this is your best path to follow. It will take much more then just heart or love for you, it will be a commitment, rebuilding, repairing, vulnerability, empathy, compassion, respect, and communication to start. You will have difficult days, numb days, and days you will question what you chose. Don’t let this scare you, but rather think that this is how it must be done. Many nights you will cry together, cry alone, or just holding each other silently knowing the pain you both feel.
> 
> Leave nothing unturned, create boundaries, and repair yourselves to be a healthier couple. Work hard for what you both want, rebuild your foundation for your marriage to stand on. During this you will both need to help carry one another, support each other to get to the next level. I believe this can be achieved by you both, but @Satya was correct that time and actions by your wife will show if she has it within her to change. To learn and grow as a safe spouse who respects and honors the boundaries in place.
> 
> I wish you the best Bruno, best of luck on the path of reconciliation.


Thank you drifting. Reading here is helpful for those crappy days.


----------



## Bruno

skerzoid said:


> Bruno,
> 
> I know not what is the best road for you to take, for only you know what you feel and see what is happening in your situation. If a wife shows remorse, and a husband believes it is true, reconciliation can happen if they still truly love one another. People here have seen false remorse so often that it makes them caution you. Only time will tell. Good luck to you on your journey, and keep us in your thoughts as we will keep you in ours.


And thank you skerzoid.

I'll will post back in another month or so.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

Reading here helped me on good days and bad, I learned so much from the people who post here. Many of these posters have become friends, friends that I have come to now know as great people. While being friends is a good thing, the best is having these people post and receiving help at the same time. The opinions of many here will help and all of the opinions are valuable. 

I wish you the best, I wish your wife the best, and I hope you both find peace and happiness. God bless.


----------



## Bruno

drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> Reading here helped me on good days and bad, I learned so much from the people who post here. Many of these posters have become friends, friends that I have come to now know as great people. While being friends is a good thing, the best is having these people post and receiving help at the same time. The opinions of many here will help and all of the opinions are valuable.
> 
> I wish you the best, I wish your wife the best, and I hope you both find peace and happiness. God bless.


Thanks drifting. Today for some reason is not so good. I understand that I control my emotions but sometimes it just comes out of nowhere and the pain and anger comes back strongly.

Life goes on. Almost 9 months since d day.

Wishing everyone peace, health and happiness.


----------



## bandit.45

Bruno said:


> Thanks drifting. Today for some reason is not so good. I understand that I control my emotions but sometimes it just comes out of nowhere and the pain and anger comes back strongly.
> 
> Life goes on. Almost 9 months since d day.
> 
> Wishing everyone peace, health and happiness.


Just make sure there is forward progress. When you say "life goes on" it makes us think that nothing is happening to change the marital situation. Don't let yourself fall into limbo.


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> Thanks drifting. Today for some reason is not so good. I understand that I control my emotions but sometimes it just comes out of nowhere and the pain and anger comes back strongly.
> 
> Life goes on. Almost 9 months since d day.
> 
> Wishing everyone peace, health and happiness.


Wish the same for you. 

But as long as the good days outweigh the bad I guess you will stay with your wife. I honestly don’t see how you and others have stayed with your WS. 

I do wish you have better days.


----------



## dreamer2017

Bruno,

I wish you the best and will continue to keep you, your wife and family in my prayers.

Best,
Dreamer


----------



## drifting on

Bruno said:


> Thanks drifting. Today for some reason is not so good. I understand that I control my emotions but sometimes it just comes out of nowhere and the pain and anger comes back strongly.
> 
> Life goes on. Almost 9 months since d day.
> 
> Wishing everyone peace, health and happiness.




Bruno

You really can’t control your emotions, but you can control how you will respond to the emotions you feel. At nine months you will still feel pain and anger quite intensely, what you need to do is to reflect on your wife’s actions since d-day. Look at what she has done for the marriage and herself, look at how she feels your pain and anger. Trust me, your wife feels that same pain, but the anger she feels is for her actions towards what she did. That’s a far different anger than you feel, the pain she feels is because she destroyed something she never set out to destroy. If I believed your wife had intent to cheat I wouldn’t be supporting you at all, she did however place herself in a situation she never should have. 

As you feel safer in your marriage you will feel less pain and anger, it becomes much more manageable. Be warned though, that pain and anger will change to sadness and possible bewilderment. You will think to yourself how could you do something so stupid??!! Do you not think at all before you drink??!! You will need to calm yourself to tell your wife what you are thinking. Not to punish her, but to have her understand how and what you have to deal with internally. Telling her these thoughts is also showing vulnerability, but if done angrily it will be a waste. Each time you communicate has to be productive and with a resolution, and that is difficult to do. My wife and I sat down twice a week for about forty five minutes, if anger rose up or defensiveness we stopped immediately. What you don’t want to do is to argue, that’s counterproductive.

My best to you Bruno, I hope you find peace and happiness again.


----------



## BluesPower

I hope that you are able to get over it and more so, I do hope she is remorseful. 

But things you need to talk about, and some are not good. 

1) You know that you get like this when you get drunk, WHY DID YOU PUT YOURSELF IN THIS SITUATION?????


----------



## BluesPower

I hope that you are able to get over it and more so, I do hope she is remorseful. 

But things you need to talk about, and some are not good. 

1) You know that you get like this when you get drunk, WHY DID YOU PUT YOURSELF IN THIS SITUATION?????

2) How many times has this happened??? The truth, poly if necessary. 

3) Why should I take you back? 

4) Do I get to have a ONS? 

5) Did she confess because another women was with her? Meaning if only the guy knew, would she have told. 

I am not saying that she is not genuine in her remorse, but how do you know? How do we ever know? 

You really have to deal with this properly, because if you don't you will for sure get to a point of divorce. 

And lets get this out there, her being drunk is 1) no excuse for anything, you are a grow woman and you knew better, and 2) This is an excuse that a LOT LOT LOT of women use when they want a little strange and want to get away with it...


----------



## Bruno

Hi everyone, 

It has been a while since I've posted here and I wanted to give an update and say thanks to all those who have offered their advice, even if it was painful to hear. 

My life (yes my life) it getting better. I've been working on myself and my new perspective on the marriage. It has been a year since D day for me and I've decided to stay. My wife completely owns what she did and we talk about it every few weeks or so. Her pain is real and she understands the gift she is receiving by me staying. Not that I'm going to hold that over her because that is not healthy either. 

We completely reset the relationship and talked about all options, divorce, separation, staying together. 

Staying is certainly not easy, in fact I usually think leaving and getting a divorce would be the easy thing to do.

Thankfully I'm in a good place and at peace with myself and my decisions.


Grateful thanks...









drifting on said:


> Bruno
> 
> You really can’t control your emotions, but you can control how you will respond to the emotions you feel. At nine months you will still feel pain and anger quite intensely, what you need to do is to reflect on your wife’s actions since d-day. Look at what she has done for the marriage and herself, look at how she feels your pain and anger. Trust me, your wife feels that same pain, but the anger she feels is for her actions towards what she did. That’s a far different anger than you feel, the pain she feels is because she destroyed something she never set out to destroy. If I believed your wife had intent to cheat I wouldn’t be supporting you at all, she did however place herself in a situation she never should have.
> 
> As you feel safer in your marriage you will feel less pain and anger, it becomes much more manageable. Be warned though, that pain and anger will change to sadness and possible bewilderment. You will think to yourself how could you do something so stupid??!! Do you not think at all before you drink??!! You will need to calm yourself to tell your wife what you are thinking. Not to punish her, but to have her understand how and what you have to deal with internally. Telling her these thoughts is also showing vulnerability, but if done angrily it will be a waste. Each time you communicate has to be productive and with a resolution, and that is difficult to do. My wife and I sat down twice a week for about forty five minutes, if anger rose up or defensiveness we stopped immediately. What you don’t want to do is to argue, that’s counterproductive.
> 
> My best to you Bruno, I hope you find peace and happiness again.


----------



## 23cm

Good for you. Glad you worked it out.


----------



## drifting on

Bruno

I’m glad you have come to peace with your decisions, work still remains to be done but you know that. Keep working on yourself as your wife works on herself, communication will keep you both informed with what needs attention. I’m curious to know if your wife still travels for employment, has corrected the drinking issue, and what safeguards she has in place. It seems she is understanding of the gift you have given, and I wish you both peace and happiness from here on. Good luck and God bless you both.


----------



## Kamstel

Wish you nothing but the best of luck


----------



## thummper

Hopefully your wife will leave the alcohol alone since she can't seem to handle it.


----------



## TDSC60

Bruno said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> It has been a while since I've posted here and I wanted to give an update and say thanks to all those who have offered their advice, even if it was painful to hear.
> 
> My life (yes my life) it getting better. I've been working on myself and my new perspective on the marriage. It has been a year since D day for me and I've decided to stay. My wife completely owns what she did and we talk about it every few weeks or so. Her pain is real and she understands the gift she is receiving by me staying. Not that I'm going to hold that over her because that is not healthy either.
> 
> We completely reset the relationship and talked about all options, divorce, separation, staying together.
> 
> Staying is certainly not easy, in fact I usually think leaving and getting a divorce would be the easy thing to do.
> 
> Thankfully I'm in a good place and at peace with myself and my decisions.
> 
> 
> Grateful thanks...


It is said that it takes 2-5 years to recover after an affair. So you have chosen the harder path. It is also the path that takes the most courage and commitment.

I wish you only the best in the future.


----------



## hinterdir

Bruno said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> It has been a while since I've posted here and I wanted to give an update and say thanks to all those who have offered their advice, even if it was painful to hear.
> 
> My life (yes my life) it getting better. I've been working on myself and my new perspective on the marriage. It has been a year since D day for me and I've decided to stay. My wife completely owns what she did and we talk about it every few weeks or so. Her pain is real and she understands the gift she is receiving by me staying. Not that I'm going to hold that over her because that is not healthy either.
> 
> We completely reset the relationship and talked about all options, divorce, separation, staying together.
> 
> Staying is certainly not easy, in fact I usually think leaving and getting a divorce would be the easy thing to do.
> 
> Thankfully I'm in a good place and at peace with myself and my decisions.
> 
> 
> Grateful thanks...


I've never understood how anyone could still want a wife who chose to let another man's **** in her. She'd disgust me forever after that.


----------



## Bruno

snerg said:


> is cheating a deal breaker for you?


This is what I've been struggling with for the past year.

I will always love her, but the question of whether or not I stay in the marriage comes up in my mind from time to time.

The old saying comes to mind - fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice shame on me. 

Peace Out.


----------



## Edmund

hinterdir said:


> I've never understood how anyone could still want a wife who chose to let another man's **** in her. She'd disgust me forever after that.


This is ridiculous. Absent her being pregnant or having a STD, she is no different physically than before. The question here is not whose body part has been where. The question is (1) did she execute a premeditated plan to willfully, knowingly, soberly and repeatedly choose to betray her husband and break her wedding vows for a quick 20 minutes of fun with another man who she had and has deep feelings of love for, then keep this a secret from her husband for a long time until he found out about it and confronted her, then say it was husbands fault for some reason OR (2) did she in an unplanned drunken stupor make a foolish mistake and have a quickie with a young man who means nothing to her, not in love with, who she has not seen since the incident, and immediately upon regaining sobriety feel intense regret and remorse and call and confess to her husband of what she did (when he probably would otherwise never had found out, if she kept it secret), beg forgiveness, blame only herself for what happened.

I can't believe all the zero tolerance people on here that can't make the distinction between these two scenarios.
Hinterdir, I hope you made absolutely sure your wife was a virgin before you married her.

Bruno, you are doing the right thing. Hang in there. It is not easy for two people to find true love for each other.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Edmund said:


> This is ridiculous. Absent her being pregnant or having a STD, she is no different physically than before. The question here is not whose body part has been where. The question is (1) did she execute a premeditated plan to willfully, knowingly, soberly and repeatedly choose to betray her husband and break her wedding vows for a quick 20 minutes of fun with another man who she had and has deep feelings of love for, then keep this a secret from her husband for a long time until he found out about it and confronted her, then say it was husbands fault for some reason OR (2) did she in an unplanned drunken stupor make a foolish mistake and have a quickie with a young man who means nothing to her, not in love with, who she has not seen since the incident, and immediately upon regaining sobriety feel intense regret and remorse and call and confess to her husband of what she did (when he probably would otherwise never had found out, if she kept it secret), beg forgiveness, blame only herself for what happened.
> 
> I can't believe all the zero tolerance people on here that can't make the distinction between these two scenarios.
> Hinterdir, I hope you made absolutely sure your wife was a virgin before you married her.
> 
> Bruno, you are doing the right thing. Hang in there. It is not easy for two people to find true love for each other.


One can make a perfectly good distinction between those two scenarios, but still consider even the lesser of the two a deal breaker. So that is the question... is the lesser of the two D-worthy. Even on that, everyone will have their own response.


----------



## Bruno

Edmund said:


> This is ridiculous. Absent her being pregnant or having a STD, she is no different physically than before. The question here is not whose body part has been where. The question is (1) did she execute a premeditated plan to willfully, knowingly, soberly and repeatedly choose to betray her husband and break her wedding vows for a quick 20 minutes of fun with another man who she had and has deep feelings of love for, then keep this a secret from her husband for a long time until he found out about it and confronted her, then say it was husbands fault for some reason OR (2) did she in an unplanned drunken stupor make a foolish mistake and have a quickie with a young man who means nothing to her, not in love with, who she has not seen since the incident, and immediately upon regaining sobriety feel intense regret and remorse and call and confess to her husband of what she did (when he probably would otherwise never had found out, if she kept it secret), beg forgiveness, blame only herself for what happened.
> 
> I can't believe all the zero tolerance people on here that can't make the distinction between these two scenarios.
> Hinterdir, I hope you made absolutely sure your wife was a virgin before you married her.
> 
> Bruno, you are doing the right thing. Hang in there. It is not easy for two people to find true love for each other.


Hey Edmund, thanks for the words. My wife says she doesn't even remember, and based on our history of when she's been completely wasted with me, she didn't remember the next morning either. She loves me, her family and her career and I know she would never consciously throw all three away. It doesn't excuse her behavior.

As for your first comments, I was fairly ambitious in college having many partners and my wife has now only been with 3 people in her life.
She does own it and talks about her "major eff up" and still deeply feels the pain she caused me, the marriage and herself.

When I was a young man I told myself I'd have zero tolerance for infidelity. Stupidly, after my parents went through a nasty divorce, I told myself I'd never get divorced because I still see the bitterness and pain. Clearly I'd have to violate one of these! 
At the end of the day, it's about being resilient and strong individually and choosing to get past the pain, bitterness and resentment and grow from it.

I've read quite a bit in the past year, Brene Brown and the Dali Lama. One of my favorite relevant stories for me was in the Dali Lama's book The Art Of Happiness.

It went something like this-

Therapist: "What is the problem?"
60 year old man "My wife cheated and I'm bitter and can't find love again. She is an evil person and ruined my life. We are divorced."
Therapist: "Sorry to hear that. How long ago did this happen.?
60 year old man; " when I was 31"

That wasn't going to be me. This wasn't going to define me or ruin my life. That also didn't mean divorce wasn't an option, and if it was, it would have been from a healthy perspective, not out of bitterness and pain.

Peace Out and thanks again. Even to those with unkind words, we learn from those as well.


----------



## Andy1001

Bruno said:


> She loves me, her family and her career and I know she would never consciously throw all three away..


Has she changed jobs and does her work involve traveling.


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> Hey Edmund, thanks for the words. My wife says she doesn't even remember, and based on our history of when she's been completely wasted with me, she didn't remember the next morning either. She loves me, her family and her career and I know she would never consciously throw all three away. It doesn't excuse her behavior.
> 
> As for your first comments, I was fairly ambitious in college having many partners and my wife has now only been with 3 people in her life.
> She does own it and talks about her "major eff up" and still deeply feels the pain she caused me, the marriage and herself.
> 
> When I was a young man I told myself I'd have zero tolerance for infidelity. Stupidly, after my parents went through a nasty divorce, I told myself I'd never get divorced because I still see the bitterness and pain. Clearly I'd have to violate one of these!
> At the end of the day, it's about being resilient and strong individually and choosing to get past the pain, bitterness and resentment and grow from it.
> 
> I've read quite a bit in the past year, Brene Brown and the Dali Lama. One of my favorite relevant stories for me was in the Dali Lama's book The Art Of Happiness.
> 
> It went something like this-
> 
> Therapist: "What is the problem?"
> 60 year old man "My wife cheated and I'm bitter and can't find love again. She is an evil person and ruined my life. We are divorced."
> Therapist: "Sorry to hear that. How long ago did this happen.?
> 60 year old man; " when I was 31"
> 
> That wasn't going to be me. This wasn't going to define me or ruin my life. That also didn't mean divorce wasn't an option, and if it was, it would have been from a healthy perspective, not out of bitterness and pain.
> 
> Peace Out and thanks again. Even to those with unkind words, we learn from those as well.


That would never have to be you even if you divorce. 

You are past the anger now. If you divorce it is because she broke the one steadfast rule, don’t cheat. From your story she wasn’t blacked out drunk when it happened. 

Yes she was drunk. 

She invited the intern to the room to drink. 

Knowing how she is she made these Decisions to get drunk with him. She knew the risk and thought her friend being there would keep it from happening.


----------



## Bruno

Andy1001 said:


> Has she changed jobs and does her work involve traveling.


She does travel but doesn't drink anymore when travelling.


----------



## Andy1001

Bruno said:


> She does travel but doesn't drink anymore when travelling.


Bruno I was reading your thread from the start and I honestly thought you were going to divorce your wife.
As far as I remember she wasn’t exactly over exerting herself when it came to reconciliation,you said yourself she didn’t want to discuss the cheating.
Now it appears that not only did she not quit her job but she is still traveling as part of it.
If her work colleague hadn’t been there would your wife have been so upfront with her confession.And did the worry that the intern she slept with would boast to colleagues have any bearing on her admitting her infidelity.
She can tell you she isn’t drinking and I hope she isn’t but can I ask you this.
What repercussions did your wife suffer for her cheating? Other than some embarrassment I can’t see any.
I would wonder what her reputation looks like at work,and yours for that matter.
I can’t imagine what goes through your head when your wife heads off with her suitcase but you are a far more trusting man than almost anyone I have ever met.
And I honestly hope your trust is justified.


----------



## TAMAT

Bruno,

As much as she is sorry and all that I have to ask if she feels in love with you, or that she only loves you as a room mate or brother.

Did she take a polygraph or did you confront the OM?

Tamat


----------



## Evinrude58

I remember this story... it was the one where the wife had sex with a male intern at a hotel when she was supposedly drunk.

Things I suspect:

Her major eff up was basically having to fess up because too many people knew
I can’t believe this was her first act of infidelity.

I also suspect she’s at the same job and traveling. No doubt op is in for a repeat performance if that’s the case.

Regardless, I wish OP lots of luck and hope his wife is not the person I worry she may b


----------



## Decorum

Evinrude58 said:


> I remember this story... it was the one where the wife had sex with a male intern at a hotel when she was supposedly drunk.
> 
> Things I suspect:
> 
> Her major eff up was basically having to fess up because too many people knew
> I can’t believe this was her first act of infidelity.
> 
> I also suspect she’s at the same job and traveling. No doubt op is in for a repeat performance if that’s the case.
> 
> Regardless, I wish OP lots of luck and hope his wife is not the person I worry she may b


Well, and did she ever ask him, under the guise of the OP not knowing, "hey how far did we go?"

But I don't think the OP is interested in these answers.

He has made peace with not knowing and found a path forward there.

Is his wife now a woman gone bad, a serial cheater? Probably not.


----------



## sokillme

Edmund said:


> This is ridiculous. Absent her being pregnant or having a STD, she is no different physically than before. The question here is not whose body part has been where. The question is (1) did she execute a premeditated plan to willfully, knowingly, soberly and repeatedly choose to betray her husband and break her wedding vows for a quick 20 minutes of fun with another man who she had and has deep feelings of love for, then keep this a secret from her husband for a long time until he found out about it and confronted her, then say it was husbands fault for some reason OR (2) did she in an unplanned drunken stupor make a foolish mistake and have a quickie with a young man who means nothing to her, not in love with, who she has not seen since the incident, and immediately upon regaining sobriety feel intense regret and remorse and call and confess to her husband of what she did (when he probably would otherwise never had found out, if she kept it secret), beg forgiveness, blame only herself for what happened.
> 
> I can't believe all the zero tolerance people on here that can't make the distinction between these two scenarios.
> Hinterdir, I hope you made absolutely sure your wife was a virgin before you married her.
> 
> Bruno, you are doing the right thing. Hang in there. It is not easy for two people to find true love for each other.


I can make the distinction I just wouldn't want to be married to someone like that. I see it like this, someone plans and robs a store and kill someone. Someone is drunk robs a store and kills someone. That one is worse then the other is obvious. Who care in my mind, I don't want to be with someone who kill someone whatever the reason.

Besides that the question has to be asked how did it get to the point where they were comfortable enough for a chance of that even happening. If he just jumped on her her because she was drunk that would be rape. Surly there was a build up of days even months of pushing the limit. 

Oh and she better keep a sharp eye on him if he gets drunk.


----------



## sokillme

How does she know what happened if she doesn't remember? How does she know something else didn't happen if she doesn't remember?


----------



## skerzoid

Bruno:

There are times when I just shake my head. You are the one who knows your wife. Not us. Life's a gamble. Take your shot.

A story: I was a football coach for MANY, MANY years. Once when I moved to a new school we had our inter-squad scrimmage a a local college campus in the new town we had just moved to. My son was seven years old. We had moved from a small town to a big city. After the scrimmage, my son told my wife he wanted to ride back to the school with the team bus. She said okay and made the mistake of not checking to see if he got on the bus. We had already left. When he ran back to my wife's car, she was gone. They turned out the field lights. He was alone in the dark. Weeping and running around in a panic in the dark....

When we got back to the school where we had a pizza party after the game, my wife asked me where my son was. I said with you. The look on her face told me the horrible truth. We drove back to the campus and ran every red light on the way. We pulled up and now it us was running around in the dark, in a panic, screaming out his name...no answer. It was the worst moment of my life.

We finally went to the campus police and they had found him. We all broke down.

This was nearly 40 years ago. I still wake up in a cold sweat sometimes after dreaming about this. I have to get up and walk it off.

The moral: even after things turned out for the good, those feelings will never be gone for good. Neither will yours. Sometimes you have to walk them off. If you can't, then I guess you have to take action. Your wife sounds like she is truly remorseful. She also will never be able to forget what she did.

I still am hopeful for you, but you do what is best for you. Hoping for the best.....


----------



## [email protected]

I don't know, Bruno. The travelers are notorious for ONSs.


----------



## oldshirt

Edmund said:


> This is ridiculous. Absent her being pregnant or having a STD, she is no different physically than before. The question here is not whose body part has been where. The question is (1) did she execute a premeditated plan to willfully, knowingly, soberly and repeatedly choose to betray her husband and break her wedding vows for a quick 20 minutes of fun with another man who she had and has deep feelings of love for, then keep this a secret from her husband for a long time until he found out about it and confronted her, then say it was husbands fault for some reason OR (2) did she in an unplanned drunken stupor make a foolish mistake and have a quickie with a young man who means nothing to her, not in love with, who she has not seen since the incident, and immediately upon regaining sobriety feel intense regret and remorse and call and confess to her husband of what she did (when he probably would otherwise never had found out, if she kept it secret), beg forgiveness, blame only herself for what happened.
> 
> I can't believe all the zero tolerance people on here that can't make the distinction between these two scenarios.
> Hinterdir, I hope you made absolutely sure your wife was a virgin before you married her.
> 
> Bruno, you are doing the right thing. Hang in there. It is not easy for two people to find true love for each other.


You're trying to apply logic to a deeply emotional, if not instinctual, concept. 

Imagine a perfect Thanksgiving dinner and the turkey and all the trimmings have just come out of the over and are laid out perfectly on the table like something right out of a Norman Rockwell painting. 

Now imagine some strange jerk off the street you have never even met comes walking in and takes a great big ol' dump right on top of the turkey and the mashed potatos and even drops one right in bowl of gravy. 

- are you going to want to eat it????

Logically you can pick the turd off, scrape off the top layer that was in direct contact with the turd and the rest should be fine right. 

But are you going to eat it?

Are you going to enjoy it and relish it even if your logical mind overrides your disgust and you make yourself eat it?

Will you value that meal as special and above all other meals after it has been crapped on??

The same thing takes place with infidelity. You can make your logical brain tell you whatever you want it to. But often people will still see their spouse as now tainted and contaminated. What was once special and unique and valued is now tainted and putrid like the Thanksgiving turkey with a big turd sitting on top of it. It doesn't matter how much you try to wash it up, once it's had a turd on it - you'll probably see it as tainted and inedible. 

Noone can fault a BS for seeing their spouse as forever tainted and spoiled once someone else has basically dropped a big turd on them. ……….. and a turd that they invited and actively participated in no less.


----------



## Bruno

oldshirt said:


> You're trying to apply logic to a deeply emotional, if not instinctual, concept.
> 
> Imagine a perfect Thanksgiving dinner and the turkey and all the trimmings have just come out of the over and are laid out perfectly on the table like something right out of a Norman Rockwell painting.
> 
> Now imagine some strange jerk off the street you have never even met comes walking in and takes a great big ol' dump right on top of the turkey and the mashed potatos and even drops one right in bowl of gravy.
> 
> - are you going to want to eat it????
> 
> Logically you can pick the turd off, scrape off the top layer that was in direct contact with the turd and the rest should be fine right.
> 
> But are you going to eat it?
> 
> Are you going to enjoy it and relish it even if your logical mind overrides your disgust and you make yourself eat it?
> 
> Will you value that meal as special and above all other meals after it has been crapped on??
> 
> The same thing takes place with infidelity. You can make your logical brain tell you whatever you want it to. But often people will still see their spouse as now tainted and contaminated. What was once special and unique and valued is now tainted and putrid like the Thanksgiving turkey with a big turd sitting on top of it. It doesn't matter how much you try to wash it up, once it's had a turd on it - you'll probably see it as tainted and inedible.
> 
> Noone can fault a BS for seeing their spouse as forever tainted and spoiled once someone else has basically dropped a big turd on them. ……….. and a turd that they invited and actively participated in no less.


The view of my wife will be forever different, for sure. Your analogy is odd.

Nobody is trying to wash anything. We're all sinners for sure so we all do things that we regret. This is the big one though, and the question is can one get past it. And if they can (which I have) do I want to stay with someone that did it?

That's the real question.


----------



## TDSC60

If by some chance she DID have to much to drink while traveling and got too friendly with yet another other man. Knowing that you would surely divorce her, do you really think she is going to tell you if it happens again?


----------



## Edmund

oldshirt said:


> You're trying to apply logic to a deeply emotional, if not instinctual, concept.
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine a perfect Thanksgiving dinner and the turkey and all the trimmings have just come out of the over and are laid out perfectly on the table like something right out of a Norman Rockwell painting.
> 
> 
> 
> Now imagine some strange jerk off the street you have never even met comes walking in and takes a great big ol' dump right on top of the turkey and the mashed potatos and even drops one right in bowl of gravy.
> 
> 
> 
> - are you going to want to eat it????
> 
> 
> 
> Logically you can pick the turd off, scrape off the top layer that was in direct contact with the turd and the rest should be fine right.
> 
> 
> 
> But are you going to eat it?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to enjoy it and relish it even if your logical mind overrides your disgust and you make yourself eat it?
> 
> 
> 
> Will you value that meal as special and above all other meals after it has been crapped on??
> 
> 
> 
> The same thing takes place with infidelity. You can make your logical brain tell you whatever you want it to. But often people will still see their spouse as now tainted and contaminated. What was once special and unique and valued is now tainted and putrid like the Thanksgiving turkey with a big turd sitting on top of it. It doesn't matter how much you try to wash it up, once it's had a turd on it - you'll probably see it as tainted and inedible.
> 
> 
> 
> Noone can fault a BS for seeing their spouse as forever tainted and spoiled once someone else has basically dropped a big turd on them. ……….. and a turd that they invited and actively participated in no less.



This scenario is more analogous to rape. So if a wife had been raped at knifepoint, where she struggled and fought with the attacker, tried to escape, then you say her husband should regard her as tainted and spoiled, because the rapist had his way with her. He should find her disgusting thereafter and abandon her when she most needed love and support to deal with the mental trauma.

Of course, the turkey dinner isn’t participating with or fighting against the turd dropper, so this scenario is just weird. But I think it does get to the the other poster’s idea I was originally addressing, which is that the physical contact of another man’s member with the woman’s body alone has somehow made her disgusting. Apart from the more important considerations such as whether she intentionally invited it, incidentally allowed it or whether she was under the influence of alcohol or perhaps a date rape drug and was powerless to prevent it. The question is whether she was culpable in betraying her husband, or a victim who never intended for the incident to happen or something in between these two.

I understand that this is an infidelity forum and many of the participants are still fighting their own demons through other people’s stories. Maybe in their shoes I would feel the same as they do. I try to express the viewpoint that human beings make mistakes and when the mistake is an isolated event that is out of character for the person, perhaps forgiveness and compassion is a reasonable response.


----------



## Edmund

Bruno said:


> The view of my wife will be forever different, for sure. Your analogy is odd.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is trying to wash anything. We're all sinners for sure so we all do things that we regret. This is the big one though, and the question is can one get past it. And if they can (which I have) do I want to stay with someone that did it?
> 
> 
> 
> That's the real question.



Well your view of your wife may be more accurate now. Perhaps you had her up on a pedestal of perfection and now you see she is a human being with flaws like all of us. Is she still deserving of your love and respect?

If there is no more than what you have reported, I think you are doing the right thing to give her another chance.


----------



## Kamstel

“Pedestal of perfection”??????

I’m sorry, she knowingly got drunk, and whether or not it was because of the alcohol or not, she slept with a young male intern and a female coworker!!!

That is NOT a fall from perfection!!!

And yes, we all make mistakes. It may have been a mistake to have 1 drink to many. If that was the case, the decision was to turn down the next drink until the buzz dies down! It was a DECISION to get bombed and go into the hotel room with the young male intern and female coworker!


But the original poster is correct....
She is forever changed
HE is forever changed because of her actions
THEY are forever changed because of her actions

The questions are now...
Can he live with it? 
Is this the life wants?

I wish him nothing but the best of luck.
And do whatever it takes to return to being happy with your life


----------



## ConanHub

Kamstel said:


> “Pedestal of perfection”??????
> 
> I’m sorry, she knowingly got drunk, and whether or not it was because of the alcohol or not, she slept with a young male intern and a female coworker!!!
> 
> That is NOT a fall from perfection!!!
> 
> And yes, we all make mistakes. It may have been a mistake to have 1 drink to many. If that was the case, the decision was to turn down the next drink until the buzz dies down! It was a DECISION to get bombed and go into the hotel room with the young male intern and female coworker!
> 
> 
> But the original poster is correct....
> She is forever changed
> HE is forever changed because of her actions
> THEY are forever changed because of her actions
> 
> The questions are now...
> Can he live with it?
> Is this the life wants?
> 
> I wish him nothing but the best of luck.
> And do whatever it takes to return to being happy with your life


I must have missed where she had sex with the woman as well?


----------



## GusPolinski

ConanHub said:


> I must have missed where she had sex with the woman as well?


Ditto.


----------



## GusPolinski

Edmund said:


> *This scenario is more analogous to rape.* So if a wife had been raped at knifepoint, where she struggled and fought with the attacker, tried to escape, then you say her husband should regard her as tainted and spoiled, because the rapist had his way with her. He should find her disgusting thereafter and abandon her when she most needed love and support to deal with the mental trauma.


Nope.



Edmund said:


> Of course, the turkey dinner isn’t participating with or fighting against the turd dropper, so this scenario is just weird. But I think it does get to the the other poster’s idea I was originally addressing, which is *that the physical contact of another man’s member with the woman’s body alone has somehow made her disgusting.* Apart from the more important considerations such as whether she intentionally invited it, incidentally allowed it or whether she was under the influence of alcohol or perhaps a date rape drug and was powerless to prevent it.


Nope.



Edmund said:


> *The question is whether she was culpable in betraying her husband*, or a victim who never intended for the incident to happen or something in between these two.


She was.



Edmund said:


> I understand that this is an infidelity forum and many of the participants are still fighting their own demons through other people’s stories. Maybe in their shoes I would feel the same as they do. I try to express the viewpoint that human beings make mistakes and when the mistake is an isolated event that is out of character for the person, *perhaps forgiveness and compassion is a reasonable response.*


It is possible to show both and still divorce.



Edmund said:


> Well your view of your wife may be more accurate now. Perhaps you had her up on a pedestal of perfection and now you see she is a human being with flaws like all of us. Is she still deserving of your love and respect?
> 
> If there is no more than what you have reported, I think you are doing the right thing to give her another chance.


Love? Sure.

Respect? Eh...

Either way, neither hate nor disgust are necessary for divorce.


----------



## Andy1001

Edmund said:


> oldshirt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're trying to apply logic to a deeply emotional, if not instinctual, concept.
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine a perfect Thanksgiving dinner and the turkey and all the trimmings have just come out of the over and are laid out perfectly on the table like something right out of a Norman Rockwell painting.
> 
> 
> 
> Now imagine some strange jerk off the street you have never even met comes walking in and takes a great big ol' dump right on top of the turkey and the mashed potatos and even drops one right in bowl of gravy.
> 
> 
> 
> - are you going to want to eat it????
> 
> 
> 
> Logically you can pick the turd off, scrape off the top layer that was in direct contact with the turd and the rest should be fine right.
> 
> 
> 
> But are you going to eat it?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to enjoy it and relish it even if your logical mind overrides your disgust and you make yourself eat it?
> 
> 
> 
> Will you value that meal as special and above all other meals after it has been crapped on??
> 
> 
> 
> The same thing takes place with infidelity. You can make your logical brain tell you whatever you want it to. But often people will still see their spouse as now tainted and contaminated. What was once special and unique and valued is now tainted and putrid like the Thanksgiving turkey with a big turd sitting on top of it. It doesn't matter how much you try to wash it up, once it's had a turd on it - you'll probably see it as tainted and inedible.
> 
> 
> 
> Noone can fault a BS for seeing their spouse as forever tainted and spoiled once someone else has basically dropped a big turd on them. ……….. and a turd that they invited and actively participated in no less.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This scenario is more analogous to rape. So if a wife had been raped at knifepoint, where she struggled and fought with the attacker, tried to escape, then you say her husband should regard her as tainted and spoiled, because the rapist had his way with her. He should find her disgusting thereafter and abandon her when she most needed love and support to deal with the mental trauma.
> 
> Of course, the turkey dinner isn’t participating with or fighting against the turd dropper, so this scenario is just weird. But I think it does get to the the other poster’s idea I was originally addressing, which is that the physical contact of another man’s member with the woman’s body alone has somehow made her disgusting. Apart from the more important considerations such as whether she intentionally invited it, incidentally allowed it or whether she was under the influence of alcohol or perhaps a date rape drug and was powerless to prevent it. The question is whether she was culpable in betraying her husband, or a victim who never intended for the incident to happen or something in between these two.
> 
> I understand that this is an infidelity forum and many of the participants are still fighting their own demons through other people’s stories. Maybe in their shoes I would feel the same as they do. I try to express the viewpoint that human beings make mistakes and when the mistake is an isolated event that is out of character for the person, perhaps forgiveness and compassion is a reasonable response.
Click to expand...

Bruno’s wife wasn’t raped,she willingly went to another mans hotel room and had sex. Incidentally the other man was an intern,Bruno’s wife was his supervisor. The question of him being put under pressure by her has never been answered.


----------



## TDSC60

I think Bruno has taken his time and made the choice that he believes is best for him and his children.

I hope it works out for him.


----------



## BluesPower

Edmund said:


> This scenario is more analogous to rape. So if a wife had been raped at knifepoint, where she struggled and fought with the attacker, tried to escape, then you say her husband should regard her as tainted and spoiled, because the rapist had his way with her. He should find her disgusting thereafter and abandon her when she most needed love and support to deal with the mental trauma.
> 
> Of course, the turkey dinner isn’t participating with or fighting against the turd dropper, so this scenario is just weird. But I think it does get to the the other poster’s idea I was originally addressing, which is that the physical contact of another man’s member with the woman’s body alone has somehow made her disgusting. Apart from the more important considerations such as whether she intentionally invited it, incidentally allowed it or whether she was under the influence of alcohol or perhaps a date rape drug and was powerless to prevent it. The question is whether she was culpable in betraying her husband, or a victim who never intended for the incident to happen or something in between these two.
> 
> I understand that this is an infidelity forum and many of the participants are still fighting their own demons through other people’s stories. Maybe in their shoes I would feel the same as they do. I try to express the viewpoint that human beings make mistakes and when the mistake is an isolated event that is out of character for the person, perhaps forgiveness and compassion is a reasonable response.


This is ridiculous logic @Edmund , I think @oldshirts analogy was fine, it is not analogous rape. 

You know, OP has taken this betrayal at face value, and he still allows his wife to have a job at the same place, and she still travels. 

He has no idea how many times she has cheated, as he will not force a polygraph. 

But yeah, the turkey analogy is working for me. Rape has nothing to do with this case. In fact I am surprised that she did not pull the rape card out when this happened. 

But like others have said, probably too many people saw her hanging on the young guy all night before she got "Black Out Drunk" so that EXCUSE would not wash...


----------



## BruceBanner

Edmund said:


> This scenario is more analogous to rape. So if a wife had been raped at knifepoint, where she struggled and fought with the attacker, tried to escape, then you say her husband should regard her as tainted and spoiled, because the rapist had his way with her. He should find her disgusting thereafter and abandon her when she most needed love and support to deal with the mental trauma.
> 
> Of course, the turkey dinner isn’t participating with or fighting against the turd dropper, so this scenario is just weird. But I think it does get to the the other poster’s idea I was originally addressing, which is that the physical contact of another man’s member with the woman’s body alone has somehow made her disgusting. Apart from the more important considerations such as whether she intentionally invited it, incidentally allowed it or whether she was under the influence of alcohol or perhaps a date rape drug and was powerless to prevent it. The question is whether she was culpable in betraying her husband, or a victim who never intended for the incident to happen or something in between these two.
> 
> I understand that this is an infidelity forum and many of the participants are still fighting their own demons through other people’s stories. Maybe in their shoes I would feel the same as they do. I try to express the viewpoint that human beings make mistakes and when the mistake is an isolated event that is out of character for the person, perhaps forgiveness and compassion is a reasonable response.



That last line he typed out was the most important part. Rape involves one person not being a willing accomplice.


----------



## Andy1001

One Eighty said:


> I can agree to the Turkey analogy with an explanation. I think here that some people are treating Bruno as if the guy that took the dump is still there, sitting at the table and possibly going to crap on it again after they cleaned it off.
> 
> It could be worse, is the point that Edmund was trying to make with his Scenario (1) and Scenario (2). It could be far worse.


Ok maybe you can explain how much worse things could be.
Bruno’s wife cheated with an underlying while traveling for work.She owned up to her indiscretions but her honesty has to be weighed against the fact that another colleague was also in the hotel room and the danger of “Loose lips” had to be neutralized.
His wife is still working for the same company,is still traveling and he only has her word that she is not “drinking” while away from home.
It may seem that some posters are coming down hard on Bruno but we only know what he has told us and the fact of the matter is his wife has suffered no repercussions for her infidelity, and as another poster is fond of saying, the faithful spouse gets to eat a **** sandwich every day while his adulterous wife goes along her merry way.
This idiom “Could have been worse” is true.
It could also be a lot better!


----------



## Edmund

Sorry Bruno! I'm just a lonely voice out here trying to give you some props for giving your wife another chance. The result is, now you will have mind movies not about your wife with another man, but rather about your Thanksgiving dinner with poop on it! I guess the majority wins. If you want to make them happy here on TAM, you must divorce her pronto.

Have a good weekend everyone.


----------



## chillymorn69

Some can forgive and some can't

Only you can decide if you can forgive and get past it.

My personal opinion is I would only be able to forgive after a revenge affair.

Not saying its right and just to have a revenge affair. But for me it would be the only way.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Edmund said:


> This scenario is more analogous to rape. So if a wife had been raped at knifepoint, where she struggled and fought with the attacker, tried to escape, then you say her husband should regard her as tainted and spoiled, because the rapist had his way with her. He should find her disgusting thereafter and abandon her when she most needed love and support to deal with the mental trauma.
> 
> Of course, the turkey dinner isn’t participating with or fighting against the turd dropper, so this scenario is just weird. But I think it does get to the the other poster’s idea I was originally addressing, which is that the physical contact of another man’s member with the woman’s body alone has somehow made her disgusting. Apart from the more important considerations such as whether she intentionally invited it, incidentally allowed it or whether she was under the influence of alcohol or perhaps a date rape drug and was powerless to prevent it. The question is whether she was culpable in betraying her husband, or a victim who never intended for the incident to happen or something in between these two.
> 
> I understand that this is an infidelity forum and many of the participants are still fighting their own demons through other people’s stories. Maybe in their shoes I would feel the same as they do. I try to express the viewpoint that human beings make mistakes and when the mistake is an isolated event that is out of character for the person, perhaps forgiveness and compassion is a reasonable response.



I think it's a great analogy....Especially with those who enjoy thanksgiving and holiday meals! It takes something that is sacred and cherished...And grotesquely ruined....

Another point is that many so far feel that there has been ZERO repercussions concerning her behavior. And how does her still travelling make Edmund feel safer in his marriage?

In my marriage, my wife is monitored. GPS and otherwise. And she has to have an itinerary and a list of people she interacts with daily. She omits ONE thing, and my trust is gone. Hell, it's already trashed. I just don't value our marriage as I did a year ago. That is entirely on her! Not me. She has to be the one to make me want to go the distance. What does OP's wife have to do?


----------



## GusPolinski

One Eighty said:


> I can agree to the Turkey analogy with an explanation. I think here that some people are treating Bruno as if the guy that took the dump is still there, sitting at the table and possibly going to crap on it again after they cleaned it off.
> 
> It could be worse, is the point that Edmund was trying to make with his Scenario (1) and Scenario (2). It could be far worse.


Doesn’t have to be worse to be bad enough.


----------



## oldshirt

Edmund said:


> This scenario is more analogous to rape. So if a wife had been raped at knifepoint, where she struggled and fought with the attacker, tried to escape, then you say her husband should regard her as tainted and spoiled, because the rapist had his way with her. He should find her disgusting thereafter and abandon her when she most needed love and support to deal with the mental trauma.
> 
> Of course, the turkey dinner isn’t participating with or fighting against the turd dropper, so this scenario is just weird. But I think it does get to the the other poster’s idea I was originally addressing, which is that the physical contact of another man’s member with the woman’s body alone has somehow made her disgusting. Apart from the more important considerations such as whether she intentionally invited it, incidentally allowed it or whether she was under the influence of alcohol or perhaps a date rape drug and was powerless to prevent it. The question is whether she was culpable in betraying her husband, or a victim who never intended for the incident to happen or something in between these two.
> 
> I understand that this is an infidelity forum and many of the participants are still fighting their own demons through other people’s stories. Maybe in their shoes I would feel the same as they do. I try to express the viewpoint that human beings make mistakes and when the mistake is an isolated event that is out of character for the person, perhaps forgiveness and compassion is a reasonable response.


Nothing he said indicated this had anything to do with nonconsensual sex at all. It sounds more like she partying it up having a good time and scored some. 

Not rape at all.

But let's look at the rape aspect for a moment.

Again, you are trying to apply logic and are taking the position that only intentional misdeeds should result in a loss of esteem and cause someone to lose feelings of love and acceptance and respect etc.

I do get your point and get what you are saying. But the human psyche doesn't always work that way.

There are many cases where a woman has been clearly raped and clearly fought her attackers to the best if her ability and her H has still lost love and esteem and respect for her.

That may not be right and it may not be fair and it may be downright crappy of him. But it is a reality nonetheless.

Sometimes that thanksgiving turkey just can't be eaten after it's been pooped on even if it's through no fault of the turkey.

Many times the BS themselves wish they could get the love'n feeling back and wish they could get passed it but they just can't. 

Sometimes they can't help but see the WS as tainted and contaminated even if they don't want to and even if they know there was no true malice or malfeasance on the their partner's part.

It may be sad and tragic and it may even be wrong to some degree; but it's real. Some people cannot get passed it even if the other person wasn't really at fault.


----------



## sokillme

Bruno said:


> This is the big one though, and the question is can one get past it. And if they can (which I have) do I want to stay with someone that did it?
> 
> That's the real question.


When are you going to make that determination? A year out? 5,10? On your death bed? That's the thing, if you are asking the question then the answer so far is no you can't get past it, at least not yet. How long does it stay that way before you say "OK nope I guess I just can't get past it." This seems to be a trap many people who stay together fall into.

Maybe another question should be how much time are you willing to suffer with it?

That's the thing. I can point to post after post of people who years later are not past it. Posts where they say 15 years later and I still think about it every day stuff like that. Post were after 30 years since the cheating, in a seemingly happy marriage, the person who was cheated on has a relapse and it's like they are back to square one. They all sound miserable. And most importantly they all have wasted their lives thinking by next year they will be over this. I don't understand this. In my mind the very first day after your spouse does something to you, where now just their very presence makes you miserable is the day you realize they should not be your spouse. 

I don't get the thinking well maybe in a year I can get over how they made me feel miserable. THEY MADE YOU MISERABLE! Isn't that enough? Isn't that all you need to know? Then you work towards NEVER giving them a chance to do it again by ending the marriage, taking into account kids, finances, logistics, etc. Life is way too short. For some reason I will never understand it seems lots of people live for years where just their spouses presence makes them miserable. It's like the marriage is dying from a long term illness. Emotional life in hospice.


----------



## Edmund

BarbedFenceRider said:


> I think it's a great analogy....Especially with those who enjoy thanksgiving and holiday meals! It takes something that is sacred and cherished...And grotesquely ruined....
> 
> Another point is that many so far feel that there has been ZERO repercussions concerning her behavior. And how does her still travelling make Edmund feel safer in his marriage?
> 
> In my marriage, my wife is monitored. GPS and otherwise. And she has to have an itinerary and a list of people she interacts with daily. She omits ONE thing, and my trust is gone. Hell, it's already trashed. I just don't value our marriage as I did a year ago. That is entirely on her! Not me. She has to be the one to make me want to go the distance. What does OP's wife have to do?


I feel safe in my marriage. 40 years this November.


----------



## oldshirt

Edmund said:


> I feel safe in my marriage. 40 years this November.


That's good you.

But not everyone works that way. 

Some people can never eat the turkey after it's been pooped on. 

Some people try to tell themselves they can wash it, scrape off the top layer and rewarm it in the microwave and choke it down for the sake of trying to preserve the family dinner.

Some people eat it for the sake of keeping up appearances.

Some people eat because they are starving and don't know if they'll ever have a turkey dinner again.

Some people choke it down because they've been told all their lives that you have turkey on thanksgiving and you just have to live with whether you like it or not. 

And finally, some people manage to wash it off, eat it but then get sick at a later time and puke it up and swear to themselves to never eat Turd Turkey (known as "The Sh1+ Sandwich" in the BS community) ever again.


----------



## thummper

Bruno, did you ask your wife to leave the job? How do you feel when she goes off on another work trip? I don't think I could handle the feelings of "what if she drinks again." It would always be on my mind. :slap:


----------



## Evinrude58

I hope Bruno leaves this thread alone. He’s not waffling, he’s going on with his life with her. Good idea or not, he claims happiness.
Nobody knows for sure if his wife will cheat or not, in spite of the fact that the liquor and men and travel far from home are still present. I personally think he’s crazy for staying with her still traveling and we all know she still is going through have a “few drinks” if she enjoyed that in the past.
Perhaps her mindset has changed. 
Reading this thread will do nothing to help his decision that’s already been made. 

Good luck to Bruno.


----------



## Taxman

I will take a different view; Bruno and his wife will limp along for a few years and then she will mess up again, or the low level resentment will kick in and at some point he will tell her that he had a drunken ONS and now we are even. The drunken ONS has fundamentally changed how he views her and their marriage.


----------



## TDSC60

My wife is like Bruno's wife in that she gets amorous when drunk. 

I realized early on in the marriage that she does not realize when she is getting drunk. If she takes one drink, she cannot stop herself from getting drunk with her "just one more" attitude. She literally is not capable of stopping the alcohol and will keep drinking once she starts.

I told her that I could not trust her around alcohol so if she wanted to stay married she had to promise zero alcohol without me present. She did and has kept that promise as far as I know.

Would I trust her to go on an extended work trip and be around people in the bar unwinding from the workday? Hell no.


----------



## Bruno

Hey all. It's been quite a while.

We are still together, although at this point almost in limbo. One kid in college and another in high school, so I feel like I can move on now with less damage to the kids.

I want to thank everyone here for the support and ALL messages, kind, harsh or whatever. Infidelity is brutal and painful indeed and it takes a very strong person to forgive and get over it. Sometimes I think I'm weak because I haven't been able to get over it all the way.

Peace out everyone...


----------



## scaredlion

During my military career my home base was Fort Bragg. This incident occurred years ago (in the 1980's) in the city outside Bragg. A young soldier got completely blind drunk, walked into a restaurant and began shooting people. He killed and wounded many. He was shot and wounded by an off duty policeman. The next morning he woke up in the hospital unaware of what he had done. He couldn't remember a single thing of what had occurred the night before and still doesn't remember. If he had not been so blitzed out of his mind with alcohol he would never have done such a horrid thing. This man will spend the rest of his life in prison for something he doesn't remember doing. Your wife is in marriage prison for something she doesn't remember doing and has been paying for it ever since. Put yourself in her place. Suppose it had been you who did such a thing but couldn't remember what you had done. What would you want from her, especially if you had done everything to try and make up for your drunken act? Would you feel you deserved to be kept in marriage prison. Do you want a good marriage or do you want a reason to leave. If you want the marriage then you have to accept that the booze stole her brain for a while and she would not have done what she did if her brain wasn't blitzed. It's horrible to hurt someone you love but even harder when you don't remember doing so. I do wish you well.


----------



## Andy1001

Bruno said:


> Hey all. It's been quite a while.
> 
> We are still together, although at this point almost in limbo. One kid in college and another in high school, so I feel like I can move on now with less damage to the kids.
> 
> I want to thank everyone here for the support and ALL messages, kind, harsh or whatever. Infidelity is brutal and painful indeed and it takes a very strong person to forgive and get over it. Sometimes I think I'm weak because I haven't been able to get over it all the way.
> 
> Peace out everyone...


Did she even try to help you recover from her cheating. As in getting a new job that didn’t involve traveling,giving up drinking.


----------



## [email protected]

Bruno, I don't think you'll ever "get over" it. If you've read other posts, it should be clear to you that this
will haunt you for years. I know about a guy who hasn't gotten over it in twelve years.


----------



## Andy1001

scaredlion said:


> During my military career my home base was Fort Bragg. This incident occurred years ago (in the 1980's) in the city outside Bragg. A young soldier got completely blind drunk, walked into a restaurant and began shooting people. He killed and wounded many. He was shot and wounded by an off duty policeman. The next morning he woke up in the hospital unaware of what he had done. He couldn't remember a single thing of what had occurred the night before and still doesn't remember. If he had not been so blitzed out of his mind with alcohol he would never have done such a horrid thing. This man will spend the rest of his life in prison for something he doesn't remember doing. Your wife is in marriage prison for something she doesn't remember doing and has been paying for it ever since. Put yourself in her place. Suppose it had been you who did such a thing but couldn't remember what you had done. What would you want from her, especially if you had done everything to try and make up for your drunken act? Would you feel you deserved to be kept in marriage prison. Do you want a good marriage or do you want a reason to leave. If you want the marriage then you have to accept that the booze stole her brain for a while and she would not have done what she did if her brain wasn't blitzed. It's horrible to hurt someone you love but even harder when you don't remember doing so. I do wish you well.


The problem is Bruno’s wife made the mistake of ****ing her intern while another colleague was in the hotel room with them. She had to take into consideration that she could be “outed” at any time. 
If nobody else had known about her shenanigans would she have owned up?
And was this a once off?
Bruno will never know the truth and if his wife continued to travel for weeks at a time then how was he ever going to heal.


----------



## TDSC60

Bruno said:


> Hey all. It's been quite a while.
> 
> We are still together, although at this point almost in limbo. One kid in college and another in high school, so I feel like I can move on now with less damage to the kids.
> 
> I want to thank everyone here for the support and ALL messages, kind, harsh or whatever. Infidelity is brutal and painful indeed and it takes a very strong person to forgive and get over it. Sometimes I think I'm weak because I haven't been able to get over it all the way.
> 
> Peace out everyone...


One thing has always bothered me about your wife's story.

She remembered deciding to go to the guy's home. She remember's getting drunk thinking she was safe because her friend was there and she thought the guy was gay. She remember's her friend going to sleep on the couch. She remembers starting to make out with the guy. She remembers going to the bed room. She remembers that she was there with the OM for 20-30 minutes when she heard her friend calling her name. But she claims to have no memory of the actual sex act and what they did together. Really? 

That has always seemed very suspicious to me. Not remembering ONLY 30 minutes out of the entire evening is just too much to accept in my mind. Selective amnesia. Suggesting that she knows that whatever she did in that lost 30 minutes would be too much for you. 

Maybe you have the nagging feeling that you never got the entire story, thus the limbo. It is very hard to forgive if you do not know exactly WHAT you are forgiving.

Whatever the reason, it seems you may be a "once is enough" kind of guy. Even if you tried to convince yourself that you are not. I think you stayed for the kids and now that job is almost over.

Just keep in mind that experts say it takes 2-5 years to get over infidelity and it has been how long since her confession? 

If your marriage is settling into limbo - why is that? What is missing in the "new" marriage?


----------



## faithfulman

scaredlion said:


> During my military career my home base was Fort Bragg. This incident occurred years ago (in the 1980's) in the city outside Bragg. A young soldier got completely blind drunk, walked into a restaurant and began shooting people. He killed and wounded many. He was shot and wounded by an off duty policeman. The next morning he woke up in the hospital unaware of what he had done. He couldn't remember a single thing of what had occurred the night before and still doesn't remember. If he had not been so blitzed out of his mind with alcohol he would never have done such a horrid thing. This man will spend the rest of his life in prison for something he doesn't remember doing. Your wife is in marriage prison for something she doesn't remember doing and has been paying for it ever since. Put yourself in her place. Suppose it had been you who did such a thing but couldn't remember what you had done. What would you want from her, especially if you had done everything to try and make up for your drunken act? Would you feel you deserved to be kept in marriage prison. Do you want a good marriage or do you want a reason to leave. If you want the marriage then you have to accept that the booze stole her brain for a while and she would not have done what she did if her brain wasn't blitzed. It's horrible to hurt someone you love but even harder when you don't remember doing so. I do wish you well.


It almost sounds like you think that soldier who shot up the joint while drunk shouldn't be in jail because he was blackout drunk and did not remember killing those people....

Here is the thing - she's lying. Maybe she lost control and did something she wouldn't do otherwise - or maybe she did something she wanted to do but felt she needed the excuse of being drunk to do it - but she is lying on at least one level.

"I was drunk" is not an excuse for anything. You get behind the wheel of a car while drunk and kill or hurt someone you are responsible.

You climb into the backseat of a car while drunk and cheat on your spouse by ****ing somebody you are responsible.

She created the situation. She got drunk with this man - while not with her husband - and then ****ed him. She created the situation she could not or did not want to handle correctly.

She wasn't blind drunk and then by happenstance wandered into a hotel room where the OM just happened to be there and then accidentally fell on his ****. And even then she is responsible for her actions.

Now, Bruno decides the consequences, and she has to live with them.


----------



## sokillme

Bruno said:


> Hey all. It's been quite a while.
> 
> We are still together, although at this point almost in limbo. One kid in college and another in high school, so I feel like I can move on now with less damage to the kids.
> 
> I want to thank everyone here for the support and ALL messages, kind, harsh or whatever. Infidelity is brutal and painful indeed and it takes a very strong person to forgive and get over it. Sometimes I think I'm weak because I haven't been able to get over it all the way.
> 
> Peace out everyone...


Read my last post before this one. Still holds true.

How many times will you post this before it's OK for you to admit you can't get over it. 5 years? 10? Where do you go to get those years back?

Or maybe living like this is what getting over it is going to be.


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> Hey all. It's been quite a while.
> 
> We are still together, although at this point almost in limbo. One kid in college and another in high school, so I feel like I can move on now with less damage to the kids.
> 
> I want to thank everyone here for the support and ALL messages, kind, harsh or whatever. Infidelity is brutal and painful indeed and it takes a very strong person to forgive and get over it. Sometimes I think I'm weak because I haven't been able to get over it all the way.
> 
> Peace out everyone...


Forgiveness and getting over it are two separate things. 

It takes a strong person to forgive. Which you have. 

Getting over it is different for different people, some can some can’t. It also has a lot to do with how the cheater helps the betrayed spouse. 

It isn’t a sign of weakness if you can’t “get over it”.

It’s a sign of weakness if you can’t get over it and stay. Then suffer for staying instead of divorce. 

You need to do what is best for you.


----------



## ABHale

She wasn’t blacked out drunk. 

She knew she got heated up when she got drunk. 

Knowing this she got drunk with the male co worker. 

She didn’t stop until her female co worker/friend started calling out her name. 

She knew what she was doing.

Just couldn’t control herself.


----------



## sokillme

scaredlion said:


> During my military career my home base was Fort Bragg. This incident occurred years ago (in the 1980's) in the city outside Bragg. A young soldier got completely blind drunk, walked into a restaurant and began shooting people. He killed and wounded many. He was shot and wounded by an off duty policeman. The next morning he woke up in the hospital unaware of what he had done. He couldn't remember a single thing of what had occurred the night before and still doesn't remember. If he had not been so blitzed out of his mind with alcohol he would never have done such a horrid thing. This man will spend the rest of his life in prison for something he doesn't remember doing. Your wife is in marriage prison for something she doesn't remember doing and has been paying for it ever since. Put yourself in her place. Suppose it had been you who did such a thing but couldn't remember what you had done. What would you want from her, especially if you had done everything to try and make up for your drunken act? Would you feel you deserved to be kept in marriage prison. Do you want a good marriage or do you want a reason to leave. If you want the marriage then you have to accept that the booze stole her brain for a while and she would not have done what she did if her brain wasn't blitzed. It's horrible to hurt someone you love but even harder when you don't remember doing so. I do wish you well.


By your logic the guy who got drunk and shot everyone is the victim too? I mean how had it must be to live with that. 

Really the only thing that matters from OP's perspective is can life with it. If it is ruining his quality of life then what does it matter how sorry she is. He should forgive her sure but it's still his life. And life is short.

I may be horrible to do that to your spouse and not remember it, but it's much more horrible to have it done to you because you spouse didn't care enough about you and your marriage not to get drunk and do that to you.


----------



## jsmart

Andy1001 said:


> The problem is Bruno’s wife made the mistake of ****ing her intern while another colleague was in the hotel room with them. She had to take into consideration that she could be “outed” at any time.
> If nobody else had known about her shenanigans would she have owned up?
> And was this a once off?
> Bruno will never know the truth and if his wife continued to travel for weeks at a time then how was he ever going to heal.


Totally agree.

I too don't buy that she doesn't remember. That's a common excuse cheaters make, especially women. It's like a get out of jail excuse that's thrown out.
I think that the only reason she confessed is because there was a witness. She obviously wanted to jump this young intern for months and finally had her excuse. 

Hopefully that's the only time that she's cheated on you. As painful as it is, your story is not that bad. There's a big difference between a LTR PA and a ONS.

The question is, has she been good to you since. Has she tried to make you feel safe?


----------



## Marc878

It seems all waywards think there is a written rule of a guaranteed second chance somewhere. I've never seen it.


----------



## Graywolf2

jsmart said:


> I too don't buy that she doesn't remember.





Bruno said:


> My wife said that her lost complete control and started kissing this guy and had a session for about 20-30 mins in another room.
> 
> At which point her female co worker, passed out on the couch woke up and started calling my wife's name.
> 
> My wife said the two of them (the females) got out of there ASAP. As my wife sobered up she realized what she had done, was completely remorseful, sad, almost suicidal. She is devastated and claims she barely had any control.
> .


She does remember what happened. She’s the one that remembers that it was 20-30 minutes and where it was. She also remembers that "she barely had any control." 



jsmart said:


> As my wife sobered up she realized (the significance) what she had done.


Basically being drunk makes her want sex and it also lowers her inhabitations. So the sex can be with anyone. All was good until she realized that she had sex with someone besides her husband.



Bruno said:


> When she gets really drunk, she turns into a sex gremlim, completely out of control. This has happened 4-5 times, and always with me, until recently.


Bruno, did your wife remember that she had sex with you those 4-5 times?


----------



## TRy

Bruno said:


> it takes a very strong person to forgive and get over it. Sometimes I think I'm weak because I haven't been able to get over it all the way.


 I call bull to you saying that "it takes a very strong person to forgive and get over it". You want to stay, fine that is up to you, but stop fasley glorifying inaction as strength. The truth is that taking action and moving on is what takes real strength, since it is so much easier to maintain the status quo. Although there is no shame in fearing change, it is not a virtue.


----------



## jsmart

The alcohol allowed her the excuse to have sex with an underling. Was it likely that she luste after him for months and used that occasion to go for it? Possibly. 

If this was a one time thing, then I can see @Bruno forgiving her. Would she have confeseed if there weren't witness' ? We'll never know; but we do know she did confess. Right away. Didn't even wait to get home. That's got to earn her some points. 

Besides, look at all the lying and trickle truthing many of the BHs we get have to endure. In the big scheme of things, most BHs here would rather their wife have had a drunken ONS that she confessed the following day than her having a months or even years long sexual love affair.

If she's still traveling for work what is she doing to make you feel safer?


----------



## StillSearching

Why do we give drunks a pass on sexual decisions, but we would not give the same person a pass if they drove a car?


----------



## Graywolf2

Bruno said:


> She confessed two days later when we returned home from the work trip.


----------



## jsmart

I stand corrected. But she did confess fairly quickly none the less.

GW, you know what we get here all of the time. This guys case is mild compared to the carnage we normally get. I don't want us to run him off with over the top burn the witch.

Is it F'd up what she did? Yes. Did she more than likely lust after this kid? probably. Did she confess because of the witness? I think it probably was a combination of guilt and fear of exposure. 

It seems that @Bruno will be able to recover from this.


----------



## faithfulman

jsmart said:


> I stand corrected. But she did confess fairly quickly none the less.
> 
> GW, you know what we get here all of the time. This guys case is mild compared to the carnage we normally get. I don't want us to run him off with over the top burn the witch.
> 
> *Is it F'd up what she did? Yes. Did she more than likely lust after this kid? probably. Did she confess because of the witness? I think it probably was a combination of guilt and fear of exposure.*
> 
> It seems that @Bruno will be able to recover from this.


Everything you just listed sounds like perfectly reasonable grounds for a divorce if that is what Bruno decides.

I don't think that is "Burn the Witch" thinking.

A foreign **** enters my wife she is looking at a divorce. Same thing if a man puts his **** in a ***** that does not belong to his wife.

And ****ing someone else outside of marriage is in no way "mild". It's not NUTS! like some of the stories we read on these forums, but it ain't mild.


----------



## oldshirt

scaredlion said:


> During my military career my home base was Fort Bragg. This incident occurred years ago (in the 1980's) in the city outside Bragg. A young soldier got completely blind drunk, walked into a restaurant and began shooting people. He killed and wounded many. He was shot and wounded by an off duty policeman. The next morning he woke up in the hospital unaware of what he had done. He couldn't remember a single thing of what had occurred the night before and still doesn't remember. If he had not been so blitzed out of his mind with alcohol he would never have done such a horrid thing. This man will spend the rest of his life in prison for something he doesn't remember doing. Your wife is in marriage prison for something she doesn't remember doing and has been paying for it ever since. Put yourself in her place. Suppose it had been you who did such a thing but couldn't remember what you had done. What would you want from her, especially if you had done everything to try and make up for your drunken act? Would you feel you deserved to be kept in marriage prison. Do you want a good marriage or do you want a reason to leave. If you want the marriage then you have to accept that the booze stole her brain for a while and she would not have done what she did if her brain wasn't blitzed. It's horrible to hurt someone you love but even harder when you don't remember doing so. I do wish you well.


You are kind of implying that people should get some kind of pass when they are real drunk.

I disagree with that and think that is a very slippery and dangerous slope.

Alcohol is everywhere and readily available.
If someone is going to get so drunk and so out of control that they start shooting people when drunk, then that person should not be allowed to walk free in society because even though he may feel bad about it afterwards, someone that out of control and that violent will always pose a risk to society. 

Letting people off for crimes and bad behavior when drunk also sends the message that it is ok to get snot-flinging drunk and do bad things. 

Getting drunk to the point of not being in control of your actions is in and of itself a bad behavior. 

If he gives her a free pass for being so drunk she's screwing other men, then he's basically saying it is ok to get drunk and screw other men. 

As far as I am concerned, getting drunk to the point of loss of control and doing something bad is actually compounding bad behaviors and doing two bad things rather than erasing one bad behavior and having it all be ok. 

In other words if my wife got so drunk she was screwing other men - I would consider that TWO offenses rather than one canceling out the other.


----------



## skerzoid

Bruno said:


> Hey all. It's been quite a while.
> 
> We are still together, although at this point almost in limbo. One kid in college and another in high school, so I feel like I can move on now with less damage to the kids.
> 
> I want to thank everyone here for the support and ALL messages, kind, harsh or whatever. Infidelity is brutal and painful indeed and it takes a very strong person to forgive and get over it. Sometimes I think I'm weak because I haven't been able to get over it all the way.
> 
> Peace out everyone...


When I last wrote you, you seemed more positive. Has there been a change in her attitude or yours? Is she doing the work to heal you or is she just trying to rug sweep? Are you questioning her honesty? If so, then did you consider a polygraph?

She seems remorseful from your description. This is a sad story. Are your children aware of the trouble you two are having? 

You seem stuck on the position that you will never achieve balance with her. You never will. The only thing that you can do is forgive her. If you can't, in the end, you will probably have to go your own way. I wish peace and happiness for you both, what ever it takes.


----------



## TRy

faithfulman said:


> And ****ing someone else outside of marriage is in now way "mild". It's not NUTS! like some of the stories we read on these forums, but it ain't mild.


 Quoted for truth! People say that posters here are jaded, and calling a one night stand "mild" is an example of that.

If the OP's wife gets out of control sex crazed whenever she gets drunk (even to a man that she claims that she is not attracted to), then this begs the question of how many other times has she gotten drunk out of town with a male coworker where there was no witness to it that would make her feel pressured to confess?


----------



## Edmund

I may have contributed to this big debate last year but I must say...

1) Hey commenters, wrongful death is a crime, cheating is not.
2) Killing a person because you are drunk is far more serious than cheating on your spouse because you are drunk. In one case, you have killed a person, who can't be brought back to life. In the other case you have killed a marriage, but it might be brought back to life.
3) I think we veered into situational ethics with a single-sanction crowd. (Like having a mandatory sentencing debate.)

But...

I believed that Bruno should give it time to see if the good part of his marriage outweighs the bad of this event. He did that, and after 6 months he is still troubled by the infidelity. I think that is a good sign that he will never get over it. So it is time to D.

Bruno should read @One Eighty's story "The Charade". It is about a deliberate planned case of cheating, including a terminated pregnancy. Much worse than what Bruno's wife did. One Eighty immediately divorced his wife, and rightfully so. But they are still living together essentially as husband and wife 7 years later. He would like to seperate, but can't because of his financial circumstances.

Bruno thank you for the update. So many times OPs post their stories and folks here try to help, but then they disappear, and we always wonder what they decided to do and how it ultimately turned out.

P.S. I don't want to hear about how the ****-covered turkey turned out.


----------



## Marc878

Most BS's just want them back upfront and can't comprehend what they got back until later.

For some the heartburn won't go away. Everyone is different.

There is nothing written that all waywards automatically get a second chance. Even though they seem to all think they are entitled to that.


----------



## BluesPower

Edmund said:


> 2) Killing a person because you are drunk is far more serious than cheating on your spouse because you are drunk. In one case, you have killed a person, who can't be brought back to life. In the other case you have killed a marriage, but it might be brought back to life.


The argument was not whether is was more or less serious or the same. So nice try with your straw man. 

The point was and it, and totally valid BTW, is the you DO NOT GET A PASS because your are drunk, and you don't. Not for any of these offenses be they criminal or not. 

To say that you get a pass with either is just silly. With infidelity, a MARRIED MAN OR WOMAN, does not put themselves in that position. And if you do, it is YOUR FAULT.


----------



## personofinterest

StillSearching said:


> Why do we give drunks a pass on sexual decisions, but we would not give the same person a pass if they drove a car?


This


----------



## BruceBanner

This thread was made a year and a half ago. If it's been a year and a half and things are still bad then it's time to end your marriage and move on. Why waste more of your life on someone who likely isn't worthy of it?


----------



## scaredlion

Let me clear up a misconception. I do not believe the young soldier in my post should have been let off because he couldn't remember what he had done. He was grown and therefore responsible for his actions whether he remembers it or not. He was responsible for getting drunk and putting something in his mouth that stole his brain. A very good friend of mine was in that restaurant about 30 minutes prior to the shooting. One of the wounded victims was a woman who was about 7 months pregnant. She lived, with severe nerve damage, but her husband, who shielded her with his body, died. After a military career, where I engaged in more firefights than I can remember, seen more wounded and dead than I want to remember, don't think I even come close to thinking he should have been freed. His lifetime in prison is less than what he should have gotten. The sole purpose was to illustrate that people can do horrible things and not remember them. No where did I say he should be given a pass because of his memory. What this man's wife did, and doesn't remember doing, was terrible and heartbreaking but not even close to a massacre. Should she be given a pass? That is totally up to the man she is married too. I do wish you well.


----------



## faithfulman

scaredlion said:


> Let me clear up a misconception. I do not believe the young soldier in my post should have been let off because he couldn't remember what he had done. He was grown and therefore responsible for his actions whether he remembers it or not. He was responsible for getting drunk and putting something in his mouth that stole his brain. A very good friend of mine was in that restaurant about 30 minutes prior to the shooting. One of the wounded victims was a woman who was about 7 months pregnant. She lived, with severe nerve damage, but her husband, who shielded her with his body, died. After a military career, where I engaged in more firefights than I can remember, seen more wounded and dead than I want to remember, don't think I even come close to thinking he should have been freed. His lifetime in prison is less than what he should have gotten. The sole purpose was to illustrate that people can do horrible things and not remember them. No where did I say he should be given a pass because of his memory. What this man's wife did, and doesn't remember doing, was terrible and heartbreaking but not even close to a massacre. Should she be given a pass? That is totally up to the man she is married too. I do wish you well.


Okay. I don't think anybody but you compared it to a massacre. But we are in agreement. Massacring people is worse than cheating. 

Now read your words below. It sure sounds like you are telling Bruno to get over it because she was drunk and didn't remember what she did, which she never would have done had she not been drunk - by her own hand - and for him to have some sympathy for how hard this is on her. 



> Your wife is in marriage prison for something she doesn't remember doing and has been paying for it ever since. Put yourself in her place. Suppose it had been you who did such a thing but couldn't remember what you had done. What would you want from her, especially if you had done everything to try and make up for your drunken act? Would you feel you deserved to be kept in marriage prison. Do you want a good marriage or do you want a reason to leave. If you want the marriage then you have to accept that the booze stole her brain for a while and she would not have done what she did if her brain wasn't blitzed. It's horrible to hurt someone you love but even harder when you don't remember doing so. I do wish you well.


----------



## jsmart

faithfulman said:


> Everything you just listed sounds like perfectly reasonable grounds for a divorce if that is what Bruno decides.
> 
> I don't think that is "Burn the Witch" thinking.
> 
> A foreign **** enters my wife she is looking at a divorce. Same thing if a man puts his **** in a ***** that does not belong to his wife.
> 
> And ****ing someone else outside of marriage is in no way "mild". It's not NUTS! like some of the stories we read on these forums, but it ain't mild.


Talk about word play. My comment on this being mild in comparison to what we normally get doesn't mean I don't think it's F'd up and that OP would be justified in dumping her. 

This BH obviously wants to R. So are we to push hard for him to D despite him saying that his WW has been working on herself and already told all concerning the situation? No, we correctly pushed him to dig deeper and to hold his WW's feet to the fire. Which he did. A year later he's still struggling with the mind movies. Which points to this possibly being a deal breaker for him. He's is within his rights to just file. Just because he R'd last year, doesn't mean he can't just dump her for what she did that night.

When we get a B(H/W) that is facing a wayward that's been having an LTR and is continuing to lie, then I can see strongly advocating that the betrayed file D and go complete shock and awe. But these things also must be done with sensitively or TAM risk running people off. I'm not saying TAM should become overly controlling like LS or join the reconciliation industrial complex like SI but there has to be a balance.


----------



## sokillme

Yeah but go read SI's R board. You will find miserable people some times 15-20 years out, still very unhappy. That is not what this board is. Most of us think it's wrong to try to encourage people to continue to live in situations that make them miserable. He can go to SI if he just wants people to commiserate.

Seems like his wife is contrite, but that hasn't helped him. Which is why I always say, being contrite is only a requirement of R, but shouldn't be what the determination is made on. The most important thing when deciding on R or not is quality of life. Sounds like his is suffering a lot. I think a lot of times the right thing to say is, "You probably are not going to get over it if you stay. So if you are going to stay you are going to have to learn to live with that." If you stay accept that this is what your life will be. 

What also needs to be pointed out is that everything in life ends. If he wants to get over it, if he continues to stay he may be wasting time. 

Time is finite. You only get one life.

Better to run people off then contribute to them suffering in limbo for years and years.


----------



## stillthinking

Interesting. There have been recent studies that show that the “Drunk you” is the “Real you”

They seem to indicate that if you are a jerk, violent, ****ty etc when drunk, then you are a jerk, you are violent, you are ****ty. The alcohol just took you foot off the brakes. It’s not the cause of the behavior, it reveals what’s already there.

As in anything there are outliers. People who totally change when blackout drunk, with no memory. The soldier mentioned earlier might be one. 

But this guys WW seems to remember too many details to be in that category. 

Either way, sounds like it may be a dealbreaker breaker for him. Choosing to end a relationship and find a better partner is tough. Some people can do it relatively quickly. Others may take a while. 

Kids, finances, and such can complicate things also. For some BS these are serious factors. For others it is an excuse not to take action.


----------



## personofinterest

stillthinking said:


> Interesting. There have been recent studies that show that the “Drunk you” is the “Real you”
> 
> They seem to indicate that if you are a jerk, violent, ****ty etc when drunk, then you are a jerk, you are violent, you are ****ty. The alcohol just took you foot off the brakes. It’s not the cause of the behavior, it reveals what’s already there.
> 
> As in anything there are outliers. People who totally change when blackout drunk, with no memory. The soldier mentioned earlier might be one.
> 
> But this guys WW seems to remember too many details to be in that category.
> 
> Either way, sounds like it may be a dealbreaker breaker for him. Choosing to end a relationship and find a better partner is tough. Some people can do it relatively quickly. Others may take a while.
> 
> Kids, finances, and such can complicate things also. For some BS these are serious factors. For others it is an excuse not to take action.


I'd be interested in seeing those studies. 

At any rate, she chose to drink heavily, so anything she did afterward was also a choice. And there were witnesses. This wasn't assault. This was cheating, plain and simple. If the BH cannot stay in the marriage, that is his perfectly legitimate choice.

However, if he DOES want to stay married, then the respectful thing to do is to advise him with that in mind or just not comment if one cannot comment without constantly pushing divorce.

Note: the last line was not directed at the poster I quoted. It is just a general statement. I assume our purpose is to help the poster in the way they desire to be helped, not live vicariously through their situations.

I for one couldn't even entertain the idea of reconciliation without a promise to never have another drop of alcohol.


----------



## faithfulman

jsmart said:


> *Talk about word play.* My comment on this being mild in comparison to what we normally get doesn't mean I don't think it's F'd up and that OP would be justified in dumping her.
> 
> This BH obviously wants to R. So are we to push hard for him to D despite him saying that his WW has been working on herself and already told all concerning the situation? No, we correctly pushed him to dig deeper and to hold his WW's feet to the fire. Which he did. A year later he's still struggling with the mind movies. Which points to this possibly being a deal breaker for him. He's is within his rights to just file. Just because he R'd last year, doesn't mean he can't just dump her for what she did that night.
> 
> When we get a B(H/W) that is facing a wayward that's been having an LTR and is continuing to lie, then I can see strongly advocating that the betrayed file D and go complete shock and awe. But these things also must be done with sensitively or TAM risk running people off. I'm not saying TAM should become overly controlling like LS or join the reconciliation industrial complex like SI but there has to be a balance.


Okay. I don't think I was wordplaying you. I just disagreed with the word "mild" being used for someone's spouse ****ing someone else outside of the marriage. Just because we have other stories of wives ****ing the whole football team doesn't make what she did any less horrible.

I think that is incorrect and trivializing the situation.

From your last several posts, quoted below, it does seem that you didn't think what Bruno's wife did was that bad. You even said exactly that. I am not taking you out of context.

You have your opinion, and I have mine, we can disagree, and even discuss that disagreement, but I was not putting words in your mouth.

I also cannot take responsibility for the TAM board's collective sensitivity or advice as a "We". There will be different points of view and everyone is allowed to express them.

I also disagree with you that his wife did not trickle-truth him after the incident she created. She lied. Her story is bull****. She knows exactly what happened.

If Bruno decides to reconcile with his wife that is his decision. He has been trying for a while, and it appears he is not succeeding. It is my feeling that his wife ****ing an intern is not a mild occurrence to him, that he feels it is that bad, and he may have to move on from his cheating wife to regain himself. And that is totally understandable.




jsmart said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> I too don't buy that she doesn't remember. That's a common excuse cheaters make, especially women. It's like a get out of jail excuse that's thrown out.
> I think that the only reason she confessed is because there was a witness. She obviously wanted to jump this young intern for months and finally had her excuse.
> 
> Hopefully that's the only time that she's cheated on you. *As painful as it is, your story is not that bad. There's a big difference between a LTR PA and a ONS.*
> 
> The question is, has she been good to you since. Has she tried to make you feel safe?





jsmart said:


> *The alcohol allowed her the excuse to have sex with an underling.* Was it likely that she luste after him for months and used that occasion to go for it? Possibly.
> 
> If this was a one time thing, then I can see @Bruno forgiving her. *Would she have confeseed if there weren't witness' ? We'll never know; but we do know she did confess. Right away. Didn't even wait to get home. That's got to earn her some points.
> 
> Besides, look at all the lying and trickle truthing many of the BHs we get have to endure. In the big scheme of things, most BHs here would rather their wife have had a drunken ONS that she confessed the following day than her having a months or even years long sexual love affair. *
> 
> If she's still traveling for work what is she doing to make you feel safer?





jsmart said:


> I stand corrected. But she did confess fairly quickly none the less.
> 
> GW, you know what we get here all of the time. *This guys case is mild compared to the carnage we normally get.* I don't want us to run him off with over the top burn the witch.
> 
> Is it F'd up what she did? Yes. Did she more than likely lust after this kid? probably. Did she confess because of the witness? I think it probably was a combination of guilt and fear of exposure.
> 
> It seems that @Bruno will be able to recover from this.


----------



## Edmund

BluesPower said:


> The argument was not whether is was more or less serious or the same. So nice try with your straw man.
> 
> The point was and it, and totally valid BTW, is the you DO NOT GET A PASS because your are drunk, and you don't. Not for any of these offenses be they criminal or not.
> 
> To say that you get a pass with either is just silly. With infidelity, a MARRIED MAN OR WOMAN, does not put themselves in that position. And if you do, it is YOUR FAULT.


What is silly is to equate killing people with cheating. You do not get a pass for killing someone, but you may get a lighter punishment if it is manslaughter rather than murder. Betrayed sometimes give their WS a pass, if there is enough love, and the infidelity was unplanned and undertaken when the WS was in a condition of impaired judgement. This is what I thought Bruno would do. Suppose she was drunk and just took off her clothes and went “streaking” down Main Street and was arrested for indecent exposure. Is this more serious than killing someone via drunken driving? No. There argument was in fact about degrees of seriousness, as the other commenters were using the examples of a drunken soldier shooting people randomly.

It now seems to me that the damage caused to Bruno’s view of his wife was more serious than I (and maybe even he) thought at that time. What happened is forgivable, but not forgettable, and Bruno should not go the rest of his life married to someone he despises and no longer trusts. Enough time has passed that if he was going to get over it, he would have by now. So divorce. Bang! Next case for the TAM court.


----------



## Bruno

TDSC60 said:


> One thing has always bothered me about your wife's story.
> 
> She remembered deciding to go to the guy's home. She remember's getting drunk thinking she was safe because her friend was there and she thought the guy was gay. She remember's her friend going to sleep on the couch. She remembers starting to make out with the guy. She remembers going to the bed room. She remembers that she was there with the OM for 20-30 minutes when she heard her friend calling her name. But she claims to have no memory of the actual sex act and what they did together. Really?
> 
> That has always seemed very suspicious to me. Not remembering ONLY 30 minutes out of the entire evening is just too much to accept in my mind. Selective amnesia. Suggesting that she knows that whatever she did in that lost 30 minutes would be too much for you.
> 
> Maybe you have the nagging feeling that you never got the entire story, thus the limbo. It is very hard to forgive if you do not know exactly WHAT you are forgiving.
> 
> Whatever the reason, it seems you may be a "once is enough" kind of guy. Even if you tried to convince yourself that you are not. I think you stayed for the kids and now that job is almost over.
> 
> Just keep in mind that experts say it takes 2-5 years to get over infidelity and it has been how long since her confession?
> 
> If your marriage is settling into limbo - why is that? What is missing in the "new" marriage?


All good questions. It hasn't been 2 years yet - summer of 2017. As for what is missing, my heart isn't in it at the moment. Frankly hasn't been for about 6-8 months.


----------



## Bruno

jsmart said:


> I stand corrected. But she did confess fairly quickly none the less.
> 
> GW, you know what we get here all of the time. This guys case is mild compared to the carnage we normally get. I don't want us to run him off with over the top burn the witch.
> 
> Is it F'd up what she did? Yes. Did she more than likely lust after this kid? probably. Did she confess because of the witness? I think it probably was a combination of guilt and fear of exposure.
> 
> It seems that @Bruno will be able to recover from this.


I certainly will be able to recover, the question is can the marriage and do I want to stay in it long term for me and for her, not the kids. Still sorting that out! Thanks for the note. It does seem mild but still, cheating is cheating - getting drunk isn't an excuse.


----------



## Bruno

Edmund said:


> What is silly is to equate killing people with cheating. You do not get a pass for killing someone, but you may get a lighter punishment if it is manslaughter rather than murder. Betrayed sometimes give their WS a pass, if there is enough love, and the infidelity was unplanned and undertaken when the WS was in a condition of impaired judgement. This is what I thought Bruno would do. Suppose she was drunk and just took off her clothes and went “streaking” down Main Street and was arrested for indecent exposure. Is this more serious than killing someone via drunken driving? No. There argument was in fact about degrees of seriousness, as the other commenters were using the examples of a drunken soldier shooting people randomly.
> 
> It now seems to me that the damage caused to Bruno’s view of his wife was more serious than I (and maybe even he) thought at that time. What happened is forgivable, but not forgettable, and Bruno should not go the rest of his life married to someone he despises and no longer trusts. Enough time has passed that if he was going to get over it, he would have by now. So divorce. Bang! Next case for the TAM court.


Ha! Thanks Edmund - for the straight dope. It has been 20 - 21 months. Is that enough time? Not yet for me clearly. My feelings for her will never be the same, I've come to terms with that and part of me, some days does say - boom, bang done, D it is. But I'm not there yet either. I don't want to waste anyone's time on this TAM court either. Just checking in.


----------



## Bruno

oldshirt said:


> You are kind of implying that people should get some kind of pass when they are real drunk.
> 
> I disagree with that and think that is a very slippery and dangerous slope.
> 
> Alcohol is everywhere and readily available.
> If someone is going to get so drunk and so out of control that they start shooting people when drunk, then that person should not be allowed to walk free in society because even though he may feel bad about it afterwards, someone that out of control and that violent will always pose a risk to society.
> 
> Letting people off for crimes and bad behavior when drunk also sends the message that it is ok to get snot-flinging drunk and do bad things.
> 
> Getting drunk to the point of not being in control of your actions is in and of itself a bad behavior.
> 
> If he gives her a free pass for being so drunk she's screwing other men, then he's basically saying it is ok to get drunk and screw other men.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, getting drunk to the point of loss of control and doing something bad is actually compounding bad behaviors and doing two bad things rather than erasing one bad behavior and having it all be ok.
> 
> In other words if my wife got so drunk she was screwing other men - I would consider that TWO offenses rather than one canceling out the other.


This an interesting point. She never would take drugs or get behind the wheel of a car when wasted, yet she did this and made that choice... and that sucks!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

NVM Derail city.


----------



## Marc878

Bruno said:


> Ha! Thanks Edmund - for the straight dope. It has been 20 - 21 months. Is that enough time? Not yet for me clearly. My feelings for her will never be the same, I've come to terms with that and part of me, some days does say - boom, bang done, D it is. But I'm not there yet either. I don't want to waste anyone's time on this TAM court either. Just checking in.


Everyone is different you'll get there on your own time.

At some point in time though a decision is better than no decision.

Living in limbo land long term is not good for anyone.


----------



## Satisfied Mind

Bruno said:


> I certainly will be able to recover, the question is can the marriage and do I want to stay in it long term for me and for her, not the kids. Still sorting that out! Thanks for the note. It does seem mild but still, cheating is cheating - getting drunk isn't an excuse.


I get what jsmart meant, but I'd never use the term "mild" to describe a situation where my wife has sex with another man, regardless of the circumstances. And, as you've already figured out Bruno, the severity of the incident is just one factor at play in your situation. Does your wife know you're still struggling with this?


----------



## skerzoid

Satisfied Mind said:


> Does your wife know you're still struggling with this?


That is my question also Bruno. Does she realize the thin ice that her marriage is on? Is she still trying to help you heal? 

Actually, with most estimates being 2 - 5 years for actual healing to take place, you are still fairly early on in the process.

I usually will back trying to save a marriage where both partners are all in for "R" but not if it is one sided (false R).


----------



## TDSC60

oldshirt said:


> In other words if my wife got so drunk she was screwing other men - I would consider that TWO offenses rather than one canceling out the other.


Amen brother. 100% agree.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You know something Bruno?

Some marriages fail, with no real problems, when the kids move out or are closer to being adults. You have an egregious choice in yours and you may be done. Like you said earlier, your kids are basically raised, you are now questioning if a broken marriage is worth your time. Whether it is mild or not, egregious or not, it is inconsequential to how you feel, you and you alone. 

A kiss can end a marriage, as a well as a text, porn found in a browser, too many hours at work, not cutting out toxic parents and being contrary. It's weird how the amount of sex partners or acts will make some people hedge, but in another thread a financial impropriety will have people screaming divorce.

Yep, these very things are on TAM, in threads and have ended marriages.


If it is bad enough you are not weak, lazy, taking the easy road out or any of the million passive aggressive insults you may hear if you decide to end the marriage.

If it isn't bad enough you are not weak, lazy, taking the easy road out or any of the million passive aggressive insults you may hear if you decide to reconcile.

The one thing you'll have to learn is not to guilt trip yourself, no matter which decision you make. Also, there is no time frame at all. Yes, people kick around researched numbers, but everyone is different. You go with what you feel.


----------



## stillthinking

> That is my question also Bruno. Does she realize the thin ice that her marriage is on? Is she still trying to help you heal?


I am wondering about this also. 

Bruno, if you don't mind talking about it, what is her disposition?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

@Bruno, what has you wife done herself to try and 'fix' this? I don't mean fix like it can every be undone but I mean fix as in her trying to help you move forward and repair the damage? Does she really understand how much it hurt you and how you now feel about her?


----------



## Decorum

Bruno said:


> Hey all. It's been quite a while.
> 
> We are still together, although at this point almost in limbo. One kid in college and another in high school, so I feel like I can move on now with less damage to the kids.
> 
> I want to thank everyone here for the support and ALL messages, kind, harsh or whatever. Infidelity is brutal and painful indeed and it takes a very strong person to forgive and get over it. Sometimes I think I'm weak because I haven't been able to get over it all the way.
> 
> Peace out everyone...





Bruno said:


> All good questions. It hasn't been 2 years yet - summer of 2017. As for what is missing, my heart isn't in it at the moment. Frankly hasn't been for about 6-8 months.


This is a disconcerting but predictable and typical trend.

Cheating devestates the foundations of everything you believe in, including yourself.

No amount of enthusiasm or positive thinking can change that. 

You have become weary trying to change what you will ultimately have to accept.

Lust is like an unguided missile, she lusted after this guy, and with the help of some booze, she went for it.

She followed her lust. It is that simple. It will never make sense. 

It does not make her a bad person, it makes her human, and your monkey brain triggers at the thought of it.

She is a flawed human being, who under the right circumstances is subject to poor judgment, and following her desires.

Welcome to the human race!

Seems to me there is a wealth of irreplaceable goodness, and positives to this person.

I think you would be foolish to throw this away, but if you allow the gnawing triggers from your animal brain to go unchecked, and wear you down, you will never be happy.

Dont let 30 minutes of the worst decision of her life, ruin your future. She has proven her remorse. Accept her now for who she is.

Men come on here years later, saying they should have move on at the time, rather than wasting their lives.

It's truly disturbing. 

You are not in a good place. Take some action, make some inflight corrections and land this thing!

Regards.


----------



## Bruno

skerzoid said:


> That is my question also Bruno. Does she realize the thin ice that her marriage is on? Is she still trying to help you heal?
> 
> Actually, with most estimates being 2 - 5 years for actual healing to take place, you are still fairly early on in the process.
> 
> I usually will back trying to save a marriage where both partners are all in for "R" but not if it is one sided (false R).


I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered. 
Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."

Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.

I get it...


----------



## ConanHub

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


Well. She certainly seems to be taking her walk on the trampy side seriously...

Whatever.


----------



## Marc878

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


Sorry but no change. The potential for another DDay is there


----------



## jlg07

"I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered. 
Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
"
So, what you are saying is that she didn't learn her lesson, and hasn't done ANYTHING to remediate the issue that caused her to cheat. She still is in the same job, still travels, and still gets ****-faced while away from you on trips.

So, it seems that she has had NO real consequences, so she hasn't done anything to solve the issue.
I think you are realizing what that means and what especially it means about your marriage. She shouldn't EVER drink again after what she did (at least without you being around), and yet....


----------



## ABHale

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


No just do what is best for you. 

I thought she quit drinking after what she did. 

Only you can decide what is best for yourself Bruno


----------



## stillthinking

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


Male or Female friends house?


----------



## skerzoid

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


This begs the question, What else does she not remember?


----------



## skerzoid

Double Post


----------



## frusdil

faithfulman said:


> It almost sounds like you think that soldier who shot up the joint while drunk shouldn't be in jail because he was blackout drunk and did not remember killing those people....
> 
> Here is the thing - she's lying. Maybe she lost control and did something she wouldn't do otherwise - or maybe she did something she wanted to do but felt she needed the excuse of being drunk to do it - but she is lying on at least one level.
> 
> "I was drunk" is not an excuse for anything. You get behind the wheel of a car while drunk and kill or hurt someone you are responsible.
> 
> You climb into the backseat of a car while drunk and cheat on your spouse by ****ing somebody you are responsible.
> 
> She created the situation. She got drunk with this man - while not with her husband - and then ****ed him. She created the situation she could not or did not want to handle correctly.
> 
> She wasn't blind drunk and then by happenstance wandered into a hotel room where the OM just happened to be there and then accidentally fell on his ****. And even then she is responsible for her actions.
> 
> Now, Bruno decides the consequences, and she has to live with them.


Bloody oath!!!! 100% agree.



stillthinking said:


> Interesting. There have been recent studies that show that the “Drunk you” is the “Real you”
> 
> They seem to indicate that if you are a jerk, violent, ****ty etc when drunk, then you are a jerk, you are violent, you are ****ty. The alcohol just took you foot off the brakes. It’s not the cause of the behavior, it reveals what’s already there.


I agree with this. My grandfather used to say the same thing. I believe it to be true. The real us is under there...when we're sober we can keep it in check but alcohol lowers our inhibitions.

I'm an emotional drunk - if I'm feeling good and happy, I get happier and louder, lol. If I'm feeling sad, I get sadder and ugly cry rofl. I don't go out and shoot people or have sex with men who aren't my husband.
@Bruno, I'm not going to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. You've gotten some great advice here and I can't really add anything to it. Just know that my heart goes out to you, in your position I would be absolutely devastated. I wish you the best and really hope that it all works out well for you x


----------



## [email protected]

The concept of "diminished capacity" does not exist in infidelity.


----------



## Malaise

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


You get it, she doesn't.

Does she not realize how close she is to divorce or does she not care?


----------



## TDSC60

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


I thought she agreed to only one drink while away from you.

If she can't follow that rule, you already know what comes next when she gets drunk.


----------



## faithfulman

Who else was at her friend's house?


----------



## delta88

I had a similar model and can tell you you are in a lose lose situation. 15 years in my case and I was told she was only acting the way she thought she wanted me to be but this is the real her. 

Now she is liberated and broken weak self destructive and has no morals while drinking. The definition of a complete loser if you ask me. Worse part is that I was holding on tightly so that loser wouldn't leave. 

Please don't be me and spend time focusing on others instead of you and how experiences make you feel. Operating from a place of fear weakens you to your core and you need to be as strong as you can for when you meet that amazing woman who really deserves you.

And bang your wife's sister if you get a chance but have a few first so you are not responsible. You'll thank yourself oneday...


----------



## Andy1001

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


I asked you before what your wife has done to help you heal. I wondered had she stopped drinking,at least when you aren’t with her and also if she had stopped traveling for work. 
This post gives me my answer.
She has done nothing to help you heal.And she is still drinking until she blacks out. As far as she’s concerned her cheating is all forgotten about. 
Expect another confession any day now.


----------



## sokillme

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


Your wife is a phony. Now I think the other posts are right she probably told you because others knew about it and she thought she was going to get caught. Or maybe someone was with her that time to tell her what she did. This is obviously a pattern and since when she gets drunk she tends to be sexually active who know how often this has happened. At this point you would be foolish to not assume the worst. It's clear she doesn't get it. 

This is the thing, cheating isn't a one time thing, it's a product of deep character flaws, which is why it shouldn't be treated like something you can learn your lesson from and never do it again. People can reform yes but it takes changing ones nature. That doesn't happen without a lot of work. They need to be thought of like alcoholics or drug addicts. It's a life long battle against one's nature. 

Your wife doesn't have it in her dude.


----------



## Decorum

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


I had it all wrong. I thought she was working hard all this time, and you just needed to take some more healthy steps to healing.

I apologize!

She has no regard for the gift you have given her in reconciliation. 

No person who was truly remorseful, and understands the pain they inflicted by their infidelity, would put themselves, or you in a position to go through it again.

I'm sorry she does not really love you. No wonder you don't feel like your heart has been in it.

I am not saying she has no feelings for you, but her feelings are need based, for herself, not respect based for you.

You are waisting your time, it will not get any better.

You can get temporarily improvement if you scare her into it. Do you really want to live that way?

Are you willing to stay, if this is as good as it gets, including the likelihood of further cheating?

Have some self-respect, and do yourself a favor...


----------



## Marc878

Like a lot of folks in this situation you have yourself stuck.

There is no R going on. You're just staying. Which is your choice.

Your wife put you in a spot but only you can keep yourself there.

I suspect like most she felt you'd get mad for a time but just get over it. So in essence she never felt the need to actually fix anything. Most cheaters feel like they get an automatic second chance with no consequences. Basically a mulligan. So far she has been right.

At this time you are your biggest issue.


----------



## TDSC60

Marc878 said:


> Like a lot of folks in this situation you have yourself stuck.
> 
> There is no R going on. You're just staying. Which is your choice.
> 
> Your wife put you in a spot but only you can keep yourself there.
> 
> I suspect like most she felt you'd get mad for a time but just get over it. So in essence she never felt the need to actually fix anything. Most cheaters feel like they get an automatic second chance with no consequences. Basically a mulligan. So far she has been right.
> 
> At this time you are your biggest issue.


Although I think she agreed to having NO MORE THAN ONE DRINK while traveling when he first agreed to giving it a year, that was obviously BS on her part. When she gets into a social situation and others are drinking so will she, regardless of her promise. No doubt her excuse will be that she was with friends.

Time to end your suffering. Sadly she is not helping.


----------



## TDSC60

Andy1001 said:


> I asked you before what your wife has done to help you heal. I wondered had she stopped drinking,at least when you aren’t with her and also if she had stopped traveling for work.
> This post gives me my answer.
> She has done nothing to help you heal.And she is still drinking until she blacks out. As far as she’s concerned her cheating is all forgotten about.
> Expect another confession any day now.


I think he can expect multiple "I don't remember" answers to question about what happened when she is away from him if he stays married.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Bruno said:


> Ha! Thanks Edmund - for the straight dope. It has been 20 - 21 months. Is that enough time? Not yet for me clearly. My feelings for her will never be the same, I've come to terms with that and part of me, some days does say - boom, bang done, D it is. But I'm not there yet either. I don't want to waste anyone's time on this TAM court either. *Just checking in.*


And thanks for checking in. 

Part of the benefit of TAM is that people help others/give advice based on their own experiences. Having follow-up on your story helps others see how events can pan out in certain situations.


----------



## Graywolf2

Andy1001 said:


> I asked you before what your wife has done to help you heal. I wondered had she stopped drinking,at least when you aren’t with her and also if she had stopped traveling for work.
> This post gives me my answer.
> She has done nothing to help you heal.And she is still drinking until she blacks out. As far as she’s concerned her cheating is all forgotten about.


*The above nailed it. Give her a pass for her drunken ONS if you want to but there is no excuse for the following.
*


Bruno said:


> She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember."


----------



## jsmart

Bruno said:


> I can't make this stuff up... *She is away on a work trip, flying back now. She called last night from a friends house and was hammered.
> Spoke with her today and she said "I called you last night? I don't remember*."
> 
> Anyway, most of the posts here now are like **** or get off the pot.
> 
> I get it...


She's still drinking and traveling overnight for work and worst yet, combining the two? That's obviously not making you feel safe. I bet that's why you're back. You're gut is telling you, what else has she done and "can't remember?" 

Something else that bothered me about the original event, is that it is most likely your wife who initiated the whole thing. A young intern is not going to bust the move on his much older manager, who's a married mother, unless she's initiating STRONGLY and was laying the ground work the whole night. 

I was thinking back to when I was 24. Trying to imagine me making the moves on my 40 year old boss and I just don't see it. The only way I can imagine it happening is if she's initiating aggressively.

I doubt that it was her only rodeo. Any 40 year old woman that could aggressively chase after her 24 year underling, will not be turning down the advances of men closer to her age.

This time there was a witness who didn't approve, hence why the colleague left the room, probably in disgust. So your wife confessed to preempt being outed. So I think you need to poly your WW.


----------



## Edmund

So Bruno. Happy New Year! Wondering if your marriage has healed now or still in limbo. Let us know if you want to have the time.


----------



## JWakk

Cromer said:


> ​
> Just reading this thread and had to post. I know a 43-year-old woman who trashed her marriage, two lives and her family for a 26-year-old punk who dumped her.


----------



## rockon

OP has not posted in nearly 3 years.


----------



## Marc878

*It’s alive !!!*
@MattMatt Zombie cat to the rescue!!!


----------



## JWakk

I have read through this thread very carefully and would like to add a few points for the husband here.
From my studies of infidelity one thing here comes to light and that is her not wanting to talk about it all when asked and getting upset.
This for me would be a Red Flag simply because she is trying to shut the conversation down which if she really understood the pain she caused she would not be trying to do this on you, those who say to look out are correct.
One reason she will do this is because she is afraid she will let something slip that she hadn't admitted to before.
You need to go back to the woman that was with her and do what the other guy on here suggested take her phone with you and challenge the other woman to tell the truth as you don't believe everything they are saying and that if you don't get the whole truth your going to talk to their HR as what they did with an Intern would get them both sacked. 
See what will transpire as if she is lying she will try phoning your wife to tell her in which case you will know as you have the phone.
I believe wrongly or rightly that your wife has been lying to you about the time in question and that this was all planned and had probably had happened before with this guy or someone else and realises if you keep probing you are going to stumble on the truth.
It was all to readily set up in my opinion she knew exactly what she was doing but because she had the other woman their was afraid it would all come out, by admitting it and using drunkenness to cover her tracks it stopped you from investigating her to much and left you on the defensive always sticking up for her to everyone here.
I have seen the advise people give on these sites and they are usually 100% accurate even in situations that seem resolved and people have said they are just gaslighting the other person. 
So many cheaters follow the same handbook it becomes actually boring just watching and listening to the crap they come out with when caught or afraid they will be caught.
The trouble is the spouses won't believe it until they end up back here or other sites admitting everyone was right.
So my suggestion to you is if she is still going on these trips verify from her work who is going where they are going and slip a VAR into her handbag or purse what ever she carries constantly put spyware on her phone to check up where she is and what she is doing and please don't say your not going to be her jailor because that is exactly what you will have to be now for years to come. Trust but Verify from now on.
You did none of this because you so believe she was always honest as other spouses believed up until years later they found none of their kids were theirs.
Yes the fact she has MS may well have made her feel she has nothing to lose as she is going downhill anyway and that is something that needs to be addressed as this could be why she was drinking but you need to think back to 6 years ago when she started going off the rails as that could have been due to guilt from cheating also because this is exactly what happens when guilt over something like that happens.
What I have said here are common facts associated with cheaters and if she was in the job she is in now maybe the woman with her knew about it or maybe she was afraid she might be pregnant so thought it best to own up to this time. Get your kids DNA tested quietly as well.
I know this for certain, more has gone on here than you have found out I would stake my life on it from all I have learned.
Finally I agree with those who have told you many times she has had know consequences and will do this again once everything cools down as she will find some other young stud and decide it is worth the risk as you are too soft to really do anything about it.
To safe this marriage you had to be willing to lose it. First action immediately should have been filing for divorce as others have said she then had a year to prove her fidelity second should have been outing her to everyone this would have shown strength and determination on your part but what you have actually done is shown weakness and she has or will lose respect for you. Yes forgiveness is a good thing but that does not say you have to live a life with that person in the future. When a man forgives without consequences the woman will walk all over him and she has started already by not wanting to talk it out about her infidelity because that is just an excuse to shut you down and eventually it will be "DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT JUST GET OVER IT WILL YOU".
I hope and pray I am wrong here but I feel you will be back to tell me I was right some time in the near future.
One thing you must understand, Women are real experts at lying and gaslighting far far better than any men, you need to go on sites like Redit/R and the other Redit cheating sites just to understand just how good and Evil even the most innocent seeming women can be study SSM ( strong successful male) and many others

Better Bachelor and many others it will open your eyes to reality and you will certainly see women are far more Evil cheaters than the normal every day guy Yes the very rich Alphas are bad but they are only a small percentage of men but the vast majority of women are so much worse it will make you cringe reading what women do to really good men.

I will pray for you my friend but please take note here and implement what I have said.

God Bless you.


----------



## MattMatt

Due to the fact that Zombie Cat is resting he has sent his avatar to deal with this zombie thread. 🐱


----------

