# RD's official journal



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

WARNING: OP is a short story by itself, unless you skip the pre-marriage crap and jump to the marriage stuff...

Hey guys, having way too many threads everywhere and realising how indecisive I've become in my seperation thus far. I decided to make to (finally) keep everything in one thread. Right now I'm at back at the crossroads. I thought I could harden my heart and just stick to my decisions but... meh

So here it is, my longest post yet... for backstory, it spans multiple threads and 3 years since I decided to join this forum. I deleted a few of them, so I'll give a rundown of the history of our 7 year relationship. It's long, so I've broken it up for ease of reading, and you can skip the pre-marital section if you like, but it gives you an idea of what led to this point I guess...

I need to reflect anyways as I type this

PRE-MARRIAGE

Early 2005 - The girl on the side
Age 20

Was a young dude, only two years passed since trouble with the law and having moved to greener pastures. Never had a proper gf since 18, spent my time with FWBs and random jobs trying to keep my head above water, until I met a woman who I thought was interesting.

However that relationship was toxic, she was extremely possessive and nuts, caged me, chucked a fit whenever I even talked to someone else. I only loved her out of pity, tried to leave her but was emotionally blackmailed each time. To enjoy our otherwise bad sex life I suggested swinging, which was quite hot, but I lost respect for her even more.

During this time, I met someone else, my future soon to be ex wife (age 23). I met her through a friend who enticed me to church. On the night we met, we clicked immediately. However we kept our relationship platonic as I had a gf not to mention she was not my type sexually, and somehow even managed to won the fight with my gf to allow me contact. Her worst fears came true however, as I slowly fell in love with my new 'friend'

STBX and I always had lots to talk about. We were both outgoing but I was more suspicious of others where as she was very free-spirited and loving. She had an aura of confidence, charm, elegance but was never stuck up about it, was interestingly down to earth. I found her quite mysterious, yet found her very magnetic to be around. She was quite fun, and we fun-flirted quite often, the chemistry was there.

As our friendship grew closer however I learnt that she wasn't all angelic, that she had a past; as an ex-escort in her youth. I never judged her however, and revealed my own past. I was comforted to meet a woman who could understand me - yet wasn't psycho - or so I thought at the time (like my previous gfs). She was single during this time, when asked about bfs she always had excuses, understandable though considering her history. I used to joke with her about finding 'someone like me', heh. I tried to hook her up but she was never interested.

2006 to Early 2007 - The breakup, the game, that kiss, and the honeymoon
Age 21-22, STBX age 24-25

Thanks to STBX's influence I eventually managed to find the will to end my relationship with my gf for good, even with the police involved to keep her from harming herself. The aftermath was rather... awkward at first. One of the barriers that kept our relationship platonic was my gf. STBX made it even more awkward by avoiding me after the breakup. If anything it made me chase her more, bah!

Nothing should have happened but with all the flirting, spending time together, missing each other playing games... all because she feared that I would target her as a rebound and jeopardise our friendship... all that, well, it was inevitable. I'll never forget the first kiss (and rump), it was like at that moment I knew we had something special.

Our honeymoon, I won't go to much on these years as it's not relevant to what led to us splitting. During this time we were best friend and lovers. We confided in each other, trusted each other, danced together, whereever we went, we were a pair. We met resistance however especially with family, friends, religion, and society:

I wasn't the type of person who STBX's family wanted to see her dating. I was in and out of work, never did high school and had a criminal record. She was family orientated in that she always respected her parents, but she was also individualistic enough to tell them that it's her life to live, defended me at every turn. My family was more accepting.

She was a christian, and a strong one at that during this time - she believes her god 'saved' her from her past and gave her another chance. I supported her faith and she was abit of a "black sheep" admist her community in that she was very tolerant of my beliefs - being so-called "pagan" or shamanist. My faith allowed me to believe anything or nothing at all. 

However, despite our tolerance of each other's beliefs, our friends were not so, on both sides. During that time I mixed with a community that prided itself in keeping my people's heritage alive, at any cost - and STBX was of a foreign culture. Interracial relationships are frowned upon as it is considered as what led our people to fall from glory to obscurity in history. 

On her side, her friends never liked the fact that I wasn't "born again" and stubbornly refused any attempts at conversion. We defended each other everytime, but to say that peer pressure didn't influence us at all would be a lie... we did fight over it, but always made up. All this was also made worst in that in certain areas of the city, I refused public affection, it caused people to stare as we were an interracial couple which isn't very mainstream even in present times.

2007 - Bible college, and the betrayal
Age 23, STBX age 26

Despite some issues, we stuck together and supported each other. I really loved her after all, and apparently she did too, but it cost us many friends. She joined bible college this year, wanted to open up her own ministry to help others who went through the past she had. I supported her, why wouldn't I?

Bad mistake... our religious issues amplified. She became more and more intolerant (NOTE: I have no problems with the religion itself, but I have a vendetta against that one particular church). She wanted to pull me into her religion, was convinced that I could stand with her side by side, as while she helped people find her god's love to find a better life, I could be at her side to help those who also went through what I went through. I had my own agenda however, although I didn't mind helping others, I don't believe in religion as a tool to 'save' them. This led us to disputes, and eventually fights. Our sex life dwindled for the first time and she became to see our sex as a sin. She was turning from the "black sheep" to become just another one in the fold. *I felt I was losing the woman I loved to her church.*

We broke up on and off during this time. Hell we even broke up by fighting, making up through hot sex, and then her accusing me of making her sin. Where I was once her escape, I became her temptation, her demon. We broke up, reconciled, to the point I wouldn't call us a couple anymore, and it is during this time that I got drunk at a house party, and kissed another girl. However, that kiss turned to be a cheat even though I only remember the kiss and sexual touches. A 'friend' of mine snitched on STBX, who asked me for the truth.

I lied.

And that was that - she no longer wanted anything to do with me. I stormed into her house and saw what I had done with my own eyes. It was heartbreaking. I never forgave myself for a very long time. We had a sacred trust and I broke it. Things would never be the same again.

2008 - Reconciliation, and baby bells
Age 24, STBX age 27

It took us a year before we even talked to each other again. She was better this year, but still didn't want anything to do with me. It was tough for me to even reconcile as friends with her, I told her that all I wanted her to know is that the cheat was my fault alone, and not hers. I accepted full responsibility for my actions, and persisted. Eventually she did forgive me, but only towards the end of the year.

I had grown up abit by this time, no longer really getting drunk to the point of passing out (unless she was there). I didn't want to repeat that mistake, and I guess she saw that in me. Over time, history repeated itself; we tried to keep our distance, but the more we fought to keep us apart, the harder we slammed straight back into each other. Makeup sex... and later, more make up sex, and then... baby bells.

Panic! It was awful, at that time I was still in and out of work, still had no career. I didn't know WTF to do, and I didn't believe in abortion, and I remembered what I said when I was a teen - that if I had children I would never let them suffer what I had when I was a child. She didn't believe in abortion either, and as such, well, we didn't really have a choice but to keep our child, who would later grow to become Ms. Awesomeness...

MARRIAGE

2009 - Till divorce do us part
Age 25, STBX age 28

This was a tough year, I stepped up on work. I had no time to study or to get qualifications, I had to fake it till I make it. I used all my past experiences and individualised every resume and thanks to STBX's connections I found solid jobs. Two of which eventually became long term, one in sales, the other in a well established restaurant.

I was still in a panic, STBX helped me remained calm, I shared with her my promise to my future children that I made when I was a kid, and she helped remind me of it. She suggested marriage, and I accepted. Not very romantic or traditional is it? But the joy of holding my daughter in my arms during this year was worth all the hard work. In fact, I even stepped up my game, worked 84 hours a week, even made a name for myself in both jobs.

2010 - The first year
Age 26, STBX age 29

Issues... issues after issues. It was this year when the skeletons of living with STBX came out of the closet. Was it a bait and switch - or has the trauma of what I had done back in 2008 f--ked with her head? She had abandoned her dreams for our family, became a SAHM. As I worked 84 hours a day just to support us she felt extremely lonely, and gradually became more and more demanding, hell she still kicked me off the bed to deal with midnight cries, and still demanded sex from me 3x a day or became psycho b-tch if I didn't satisfy her.

Our previous issues amplified, she may have abandoned her churchie dreams but aspects of her past mentality were still present. She confided in her mother (who I've always hated) whenever we fought, instead of what we used to do - fight it out between ourselves and make up. Now sure, we did make up, but it was always more complicated then the good o' days. Things escalated into an interreligious crisis that led me to join this forum.

And hey... guess I stayed, and reflected more, bringing up all our issues one by one.

2011 - The 180, toxicity and counselling
Age 27, STBX age 30

I pulled a 180 on STBX, had enough of our interreligious mess. Used the D word. I seriously had enough of her BS. And hey, she broke down. In a way I may have solved the issue, but at the cost of her own faith which was already rocky back in 2008 when I cheated on her. We have always been a very proud and stubborn couple.

When we stood by each other we could conquer the world, but when we fought... we never backed down. This led to our toxic marital dynamics and dramas.

Some threads on key issues this year, note this was 3 years ago, and I was an idiot back then - still am somewhat:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/31199-expect-her-perfect.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/30058-mil-wifey-manipulative-streak.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/29974-counsellor-buying-missus-bs.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/19872-pride-stubbornness.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/20322-working-blokes-what-acceptable.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/30065-man-enough.html

Yeah, fking toxic =/

2012 - Hell I can't believe this was last year
Age 28, STBX age 31

This year had slow changes, and involved with us identifying the issues of our marriage more and more. As we were a stubborn couple, I identified some causes of our marital dynamics being so fudged up:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/57225-root-some-our-toxic-dynamics.html
However, reflecting on this now, in 2013, we turned what was fun, into a nightmare for both of us.

Other key things here:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/47920-made-her-feel-unattractive.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/53183-dealing-changes.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/57751-wifey-cried-then-some-more.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/64210-her-esteem-crushed.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/61488-update-stbxs-revelation.html

However, it never solved much, her behaviour shifted from aggressive to passive-aggressive, and led to this:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/60153-all-hell-broke-loose.html

Seperation... then soon after a short reconciliatory period...

2013 - Seperation, celibacy, and sh-t
Age 29 (coming), STBX age 32

Our attempts at reconciliation failed spectacularly on Valentine's day. Typical:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/67678-v-day-sex-fight.html

Throughout this year we remained mostly civil, we became co-parents and our daughter has been coping. I've tried moving on multiple times, went on meet-up.com, but couldn't put out. So I dated one of STBX's past friends but they could still reach other which caused some drama hence we ended it. Then recently I dated again, but felt sick to the stomach.

Recently too, STBX came forward with an attempt at reconciliation:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/122602-stbx-really-bad.html

Which I rejected in recent times...

October 2013
As of page 19...

Self-reflection and advice on this thread has made me realise that my feelings for my STBX is not yet dead. And that I have a natural defense mechanism that comes in between my feelings which prevents me from feeling sh-t. I have decided to hold off my hardening as long as possible until my situation has been resolved for good or ill.

However, I did reject my wife's attempt at reconciliation very recently. When expressing how I felt, STBX has become very cold and now things are very awkward. For a week now she has given me silent treatment, and yesterday, on the 26th, she mentioned that she doesn't know what to do with me, and that I'm an emotional roller-coaster. We have not spoken since either then greetings/short talks about our daughter due to our co-parenting arrangements. Things are very icy nowadays.

February 2014

Last few months I've been kept busy, and have been sleeping around. Relationship with my STBX is over, we've both seemingly moved on emotionally but neither of us can pull the trigger to get the divorce over and done with.

That's how things are at the moment.

I'll be updating the OP as circumstances change.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell looking back, I can't remember half the crap now, feels like a lifetime ago...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Are you ready to listen now?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Shoot


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Hey Random Dude, I find your journal well thought out / organized...just saying...you have really written your heart out with all the threads in the last so many yrs ....mulling over where to go, what to do, how to FIX...*if it can be Fixed*. 



> *RandomDude said*: Panic! It was awful, at that time I was still in and out of work, still had no career. I didn't know WTF to do, and I didn't believe in abortion, *and I remembered what I said when I was a teen - that if I had children I would never let them suffer what I had when I was a child. *She didn't believe in abortion either, and as such, well, we didn't really have a choice but to keep our child, who would later grow to become Ms. Awesomeness...


 One thing you are...very tenacious and honorable in something you have *RESOLVED in your head* ... as you vowed with all your strength and might to never allow a child of yours to suffer as you did... Seems your daughter has been somewhat *your salvation* - in many ways... her being born gave you a purpose to improve yourself ....that's beautiful. 



> I was still in a panic, STBX helped me remained calm, I shared with her my promise to my future children that I made when I was a kid, and she helped remind me of it. She suggested marriage, and I accepted. Not very romantic or traditional is it? But the joy of holding my daughter in my arms during this year was worth all the hard work.* In fact, I even stepped up my game, worked 84 hours a week, even made a name for myself in both jobs.*


 :smthumbup: You are a real fighter and go -getter...again, when you have RESOLVE in something...you've come a long way.



> although I didn't mind helping others, I don't believe in religion as a tool to 'save' them. This led us to disputes, and eventually fights. Our sex life dwindled for the first time and she became to see our sex as a sin. She was turning from the "black sheep" to become just another one in the fold. *I felt I was losing the woman I loved to her church.*
> 
> We broke up on and off during this time. Hell we even broke up by fighting, making up through hot sex, and then her accusing me of making her sin. Where I was once her escape, I became her temptation, her demon. We broke up, reconciled, to the point I wouldn't call us a couple anymore, and it is during this time that I got drunk at a house party, and kissed another girl. However, that kiss turned to be a cheat even though I only remember the kiss and sexual touches. A 'friend' of mine snitched on STBX, who asked me for the truth.
> 
> I lied.


It seems it wasn't you or her's past that toppled you at all but 2 things...Religion being #1....wow, she really was being twisted with the sex views for a time -it being SIN while married... really [email protected]#$%^ This insanity/madness leading to your cheating one night - seemed to destroy something within her .....driving her to want you to prove your Love through sex or something.... it's a sordid story alright !


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Hey Random Dude, I find your journal well thought out / organized...just saying...you have really written your heart out with all the threads in the last so many yrs ....mulling over where to go, what to do, how to FIX...*if it can be Fixed*.
> 
> One thing you are...very tenacious and honorable in something you have *RESOLVED in your head* ... as you vowed with all your strength and might to never allow a child of yours to suffer as you did... Seems your daughter has been somewhat *your salvation* - in many ways... her being born gave you a purpose to improve yourself ....that's beautiful. :smthumbup: You are a real fighter and go -getter...again, when you have RESOLVE in something...you've come a long way.


Thanks SA, not so sure about honorable, but tenacious yes heh
My daughter has been more than my saving grace really, she inspired and drove me to success.



> It seems it wasn't you or her's past that toppled you at all but 2 things...Religion being #1....wow, she really was being twisted with the sex views for a time -it being SIN while married... really [email protected]#$%^ This insanity/madness leading to your cheating one night - seemed to destroy something within her .....driving her to want you to prove your Love through sex or something.... it's a sordid story alright !


Well we weren't married yet when she went into bible college, hence why it was considered a sin. But yeah, the cheat was the beginning of the end, or was it our religious issues? Looking back, we had something beautiful before all of this crap. I don't know what to do or how to approach it, do you think I should try for one last time before our legal divorce next year?

If so, how should I approach her with it? Or should I move on, and leave behind years of history, breaking my promise to my daughter in the meantime, who was praying with mum for daddy to come home? I thought I made my decision to move on when I shot STBX down recently...

... but recent times and my last date... I don't know anymore about my future


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

How much individual counseling have you had?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's ongoing, STBX has been doing the same, and my counsellor has mostly been encouraging me to reflect, take my time, and not to harden my heart. However, hardening my heart is my survival mechanism and is not always consciously controlled. Either than that, meh


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> It's ongoing, STBX has been doing the same, and my counsellor has mostly been encouraging me to reflect, take my time, and not to harden my heart. However, hardening my heart is my survival mechanism and is not always consciously controlled. Either than that, meh


What would you say was your role in the demise of the relationship?


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

^ I love Conrad's question like this. It's like being given free reign on an essay when you've just researched the coolest topic (the cloud you were in).


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> What would you say was your role in the demise of the relationship?


Well, throughout our relationship, a short summary of would be...

- Indecisiveness over our IR issues
- Lack of transparency on my part
- Emotional lockdown and shutdown due to issues
- Infidelity prior to our marriage
- Alcoholism
- Flirting with other women contributing to her insecurity
- Mind games and fitness tests
- Failure to establish boundaries especially in sex
- Failure to help her feel secure in the marriage
- Contributed to toxicity by starting and/or escalating fights
- Failure to handle silent treatments
- Failure to handle fitness tests assertively
- Inability to appreciate her for her contributions in the marriage

Not that it makes much difference now though, I shared all this to her recently, especially the last one, but it's like she's moved on. I don't know.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well, throughout our relationship, a short summary of would be...
> 
> - Indecisiveness over our IR issues
> - Lack of transparency on my part
> ...


What's the core reason for all of those things?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Arrogance, immaturity, alcohol addiction, selfishness, co-dependency, insecurity and hot temper.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> co-dependency


The source of this... childhood?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Insecurity, I felt if I didn't satisfy her sexual desires she would find it elsewhere, even revenge on me by cheating - especially since I already fked up myself. You know the saying "people don't trust people because they don't trust themselves"?

Quite frankly I find that saying bogus - except for this. I am by nature a very vengeful person, and I couldn't trust that she had forgiven me. And I sure as hell couldn't trust what I would do if I was betrayed - I feared myself and my temper above all.

I also pushed swinging to her even though it fked up my relationship prior; the way I saw it -> if I can't control her loyalty, I want to control her disloyalty. I even get turned on by it. She refused every time and eventually after enough knocks in the head I stopped.

This also led to me playing the push and pull game, starting fights, fearing of stability as an awkward silence before the storm. As you can see, I had trust issues, which yes - comes with childhood, despite STBX's proven loyalty I hired PIs, maintained a network. STBX was never aware until I admitted it, and she was understandably hurt.

I've come to acknowledge that she's the one woman who I can trust with fidelity nowadays, but unfortunately this realisation has also made it next to impossible for me to move on.

Meh


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Feeling very indecisive now, I don't know whether I should try R again before STBX moves on for good. Thoughts?

As for love, I don't know what that is anymore, I'm confused


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It wont hurt to wait and see how things develop. You will see her when she drops off your child and that will offer you the opportunity to observe and interact with her. 

Only feelings of deep love of a romantic type will carry you through. Marriage is too difficult to negotiate if your feelings are romantically and emotionally weak. 

If you make a rash decision, and it does not work, you will have to start this whole process over again. You are almost at the one year mark which seems to be a pivotal time when things break one way or the other. 

My advice is to wait it out. If it is meant to be, you won't need to do anything. It will just feel right.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Feeling very indecisive now, I don't know whether I should try R again before STBX moves on for good. Thoughts?
> 
> As for love, I don't know what that is anymore, I'm confused


A very "vengeful" person.

And, you believe you have no control over that trait?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So to wait and see eh? Patience is a virtue I guess... alright, think I'll do that.

@Conrad

I've learnt the concept of forgiveness through STBX's beliefs, it's not always easy but it has tamed me somewhat. But my nature is not something that can change overnight and will take many more years of positive experiences to cloud out the bad.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> So to wait and see eh? Patience is a virtue I guess... alright, think I'll do that.
> 
> @Conrad
> 
> I've learnt the concept of forgiveness through STBX's beliefs, it's not always easy but it has tamed me somewhat. But my nature is not something that can change overnight and will take many more years of positive experiences to cloud out the bad.


Or just some real-time self awareness and ownership of your pos tendencies.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's already taken care of, and although it has affected my trust in her in the past, I'm over it. But meh... all this maybe for nothing really, I may have learnt alot but I don't know about my future.

But hey, guess we'll wait and see. D day coming up soon, time flies.

I rejected her proposal for reconciliation recently because I wanted her to spread her own wings, find her own centre, and had a feeling that if I was to accept her proposal I would hampen her progress which she has indeed made since seperation on Feb. I've closed the door so she could stop looking back.

So now, she's moving on. What a fool I am... meh


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> It's already taken care of, and although it has affected my trust in her in the past, I'm over it.


Your body and mind are telling you this isn't true.

I recommend you listen to them.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well I can't see the world as STBX sees it, I don't have her faith that allows her to forgive much easier than me. Besides my nature allows me to visit retribution without guilt or regret on those who p-ss me off and the satisfaction of revenge is one of my joys in life.

In terms of my marriage, this has caused trust issues sure, but I've come to acknowledge our difference and can be content with that, she's not me (thankfully), and will never be me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well I can't see the world as STBX sees it, I don't have her faith that allows her to forgive much easier than me. Besides my nature allows me to visit retribution without guilt or regret on those who p-ss me off and the satisfaction of revenge is one of my joys in life.
> 
> In terms of my marriage, this has caused trust issues sure, but I've come to acknowledge our difference and can be content with that, she's not me (thankfully), and will never be me.


It's not faith that allows you to forgive.

It's self-awareness.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Faith does make it easier at the very least no? As for forgiveness one thing I did learn about it was how it set me free from hatred of my parents for abandonment at childhood. I wanted to be free and I have been for years.

I don't believe forgiveness can apply in all circumstances however as I don't believe turning the other cheek all the time is a healthy principle to adopt. Besides I'm aware that I love my vengeance.

Anyways I don't see how my vengeful nature is bad for marriage as long as it doesn't affect trust or cause me to deal with situations between my wife aggressively rather then assertively. I've already been tamed alot, any tamer and I'll become a 'nice guy'


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Faith does make it easier at the very least no? As for forgiveness one thing I did learn about it was how it set me free from hatred of my parents for abandonment at childhood. I wanted to be free and I have been for years.
> 
> I don't believe forgiveness can apply in all circumstances however as I don't believe turning the other cheek all the time is a healthy principle to adopt. Besides I'm aware that I love my vengeance.
> 
> Anyways I don't see how my vengeful nature is bad for marriage as long as it doesn't affect trust or cause me to deal with situations between my wife aggressively rather then assertively. I've already been tamed alot, any tamer and I'll become a 'nice guy'


Faith without self-awareness leads many people into the life of a doormat.

Doormat behavior isn't how your codependence expresses itself.

So, faith wouldn't be a magic bullet.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I don't believe forgiveness can apply in all circumstances however as I don't believe turning the other cheek all the time is a healthy principle to adopt. Besides I'm aware that I love my vengeance.
> 
> Anyways I don't see how my vengeful nature is bad for marriage as long as it doesn't affect trust or cause me to deal with situations between my wife aggressively rather then assertively. I've already been tamed alot, any tamer and I'll become a 'nice guy'



I believe in certain circumstances it's okay to take a bit of satisfaction and dare I say joy in watching things go bad for those who have wronged you. 

I like to believe the universe will catch up to them sooner or later.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well good thing that I can never have faith then lol

The thing is though, I feel better, more centered, how do I know if I'm ready to live with a woman again unless I put all I've learnt in a firsthand test? Same goes with STBX's recent changes.

As we've been living apart, things have been civil. This makes me wonder if getting back together would be like a mouse trap.



smallsteps said:


> I believe in certain circumstances it's okay to take a bit of satisfaction and dare I say joy in watching things go bad for those who have wronged you.
> 
> I like to believe the universe will catch up to them sooner or later.


I'd like to believe it too, but it just never happened in my experiences, unless I was the instrument of justice itself... ha!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well good thing that I can never have faith then lol
> 
> The thing is though, I feel better, more centered, how do I know if I'm ready to live with a woman again unless I put all I've learnt in a firsthand test? Same goes with STBX's recent changes.
> 
> ...


How is that comment helpful?

I didn't say you can never have faith.

I'm saying forgiveness from you will require more than that. And, I'm also saying that people who rely on faith alone (to avoid standing up for themselves) don't do very well either.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I've already forgiven STBX for everything =/


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I've already forgiven STBX for everything =/


But, you haven't let it go.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What you mean by letting it go?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> What you mean by letting it go?


Your words indicate you don't have peace with the situation.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

No, not if there's a chance and I'm not taking it but I don't know

I'm just indecisive about the whole thing, what's the right thing to do, my daughter praying for daddy to come home, then daddy pushing mum away, crap like that


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Look if you want to try to reconcile you're going to have to put yourself out there. It's going to take a combination of self awareness to maintain your boundaries and recognize your issues and how they played into the seperation. Your faith is going to come into play because you have to believe reconciling with your wife is the right thing for you and her. 

You can't go into a reconciliation half heartedly. You need to commit to it 100%
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Looks like I'll have to unharden first then =/


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Looks like I'll have to unharden first then =/


Having good boundaries doesn't necessarily mean being an ass.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Aye, but what I meant by unhardening is due to the fact that I'm having trouble with feeling anything nowadays - hence I can't say I love her or whatever meh

Rather numb, hardened heart and all that

I guess if I can't feel anything towards her as D day approaches then, guess we'll just have to let the D happen. I still have desires but it's purely physical nowadays, so I tried to move on, but couldn't put out, kissed a young woman recently but felt like throwing up.

I don't think I'll feel such discomfort with STBX but I dunno, its been 8 months. She doesn't deserve to be led on however, if I don't love her then it's best I let her go, but right now I just don't know if I do or not. Some people reckon I do, but I just don't feel it.

Meh, it's weird =/
I never encountered something like this, past gfs in my youth I could easily have moved on and fked someone else but not this time. But hey, this is my first marriage, first time I lived with a woman for so long and longest relationship yet... maybe that has something to do with it.

So either way, I need to ram something, but can't seem to put out. The more I date the more I think of STBX as well, strange.


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

RD I don't believe your heart is quite as hardened as you'd like it to be.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

anja said:


> RD I don't believe your heart is quite as hardened as you'd like it to be.


Sure doesn't sound that way, does it?

It will be difficult for him to forgive her if he doesn't forgive himself.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

anja said:


> RD I don't believe your heart is quite as hardened as you'd like it to be.


No? Then how come I can't feel sh-t with anyone? :scratchhead:



Conrad said:


> Sure doesn't sound that way, does it?
> 
> It will be difficult for him to forgive her if he doesn't forgive himself.


:scratchhead:

I've already forgiven her, but obviously not forgotten


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> It will be difficult for him to forgive her if he doesn't forgive himself.


:iagree:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

=/

Is anyone going to fill me in or should I keep scratching my head?


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

Well, I'm no expert. But if you're asking for my personal opinion, which I assume you are, here it is:

You don't feel "nothing". You felt aversion to kissing your date. You feel a great deal of love for your daughter. You feel confusion in regards to your marriage/divorce. All those things are not nothing.
What you feel, in my opinion, is fear. Of what? I'm not sure. Maybe you fear feeling guilty. It can be crushing. Maybe not.
What you don't feel right now is the exhilaration and joy you were hoping for. That's ok. Doesn't mean you got a heart of stone. I'm sure someone else can explain this more eloquently.

About the forgiving you have done... forgiving and forgetting are two different things. Forgiving is the decision you make that the person who has wronged you no longer has to pay for it.
Say you lend me $100. I don't pay it back. After a few years you "forgive" my debt, deciding I no longer have to repay the loan. However, you are not going to forget. When I come back, asking for more money, you are unlikely to hand me some. That's the difference. 

Personally, I find it harder to forgive under the instructions of the Bible. It's commanded, I don't have a choice. In my pre-Jesus life, the choice was mine and I could do when/as I saw fit and was ready. In either case though, I've found that forgiviness isn't a one time deal. Often I have to keep forgiving, sometimes daily, sometimes hourly, the same offence and the same offender. As if every time we meet you decide not to ask me for the $100, because you had already decided that you wouldn't. It's fluid and ongoing. Your mileage might vary.

Edited:
I'm having trouble with the whole forgiving thing myself right now, and I haven't touched the Bible or anything in weeks, so know that I'm not really practicing what I preach.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

anja said:


> Well, I'm no expert. But if you're asking for my personal opinion, which I assume you are, here it is:
> 
> You don't feel "nothing". You felt aversion to kissing your date. You feel a great deal of love for your daughter. You feel confusion in regards to your marriage/divorce. All those things are not nothing.
> What you feel, in my opinion, is fear. Of what? I'm not sure. Maybe you fear feeling guilty. It can be crushing. Maybe not.
> What you don't feel right now is the exhilaration and joy you were hoping for. That's ok. Doesn't mean you got a heart of stone. I'm sure someone else can explain this more eloquently.


True, but I can't feel love for my wife. To me I guess, it spells hardened for me. Like hell I still care about her somewhat as the mother of my child, been with me for almost a decade now, I've come to respect her (more since seperation, and more recently ironically), but if I just can't seem to feel any love for her.



> About the forgiving you have done... forgiving and forgetting are two different things. Forgiving is the decision you make that the person who has wronged you no longer has to pay for it.
> Say you lend me $100. I don't pay it back. After a few years you "forgive" my debt, deciding I no longer have to repay the loan. However, you are not going to forget. When I come back, asking for more money, you are unlikely to hand me some. That's the difference.


Well, thanks to reflection on my mistakes throughout the years and my own flaws, I am confident when I say that I have forgiven her. Despite all of the fights, demands, headaches and crap she gave me, I don't see how she has to suffer more. Throughout it all, she has stuck with me and put up with my BS, has been completely loyal and forfilled her duties as a wife and mother to the degree of excellence.

She easily deserved forgiveness.



> Personally, I find it harder to forgive under the instructions of the Bible. It's commanded, I don't have a choice. In my pre-Jesus life, the choice was mine and I could do when/as I saw fit and was ready. In either case though, I've found that forgiviness isn't a one time deal. Often I have to keep forgiving, sometimes daily, sometimes hourly, the same offence and the same offender. As if every time we meet you decide not to ask me for the $100, because you had already decided that you wouldn't. It's fluid and ongoing. Your mileage might vary.


Well, I've never been a believer although I found some principles interesting. The concept of forgiveness being more for myself and less about the offender helped me forgive my parents for example, and it taught me how to be free from hate.

However, my other belief system doesn't believe in karma or a universal justice system, hence I guess I consider vengeance a duty of out of principle.


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I just can't seem to feel any love for her.


So, is this because you don't let yourself or don't want to? Are you actively trying to keep your walls up?
(something I am doing myself right now, no judgement from me)

Or would you like to feel love towards her but can't seem to find it?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sometimes it's conscious, but other times it's subconscious and shuts down feelings. 

I would want to feel love again, but I can't find it, and hell I don't even know what it is anymore, maybe it's confusion? Ever since she came back to me I've been trying, even listening to music bringing back memories but when the music stops, nothing...

I've noticed this since last year -> I no longer felt that I loved her. It don't know if my love had been permanently extinguished or if this mechanism just kicked in and needs to cool off. She cried but I felt nothing but pity, she asked me how I could forget everything that we had together and I had no answer for her. I was just meh... still meh

I don't know, maybe I'm just bloody confused, my counsellor is helping but apparently it's something I have to search deep within myself... yet I can't find it... probably because I don't know what I'm even looking for anymore?

Hell if that makes any sense at all


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

But hell you know what's weird? I think about her more when I'm with SOMEBODY else!!! It's so fked up, like I can't be with her, yet I can't be with someone else.


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Hell if that makes any sense at all


Makes perfect sense to me.  It's 2am though, so I'm out for the night and I'll respond more tomorrow.


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

You know, you actually sound like you love her tons, but are deeply mad at her. Hence the space she takes up in your head, but the coolness when you see her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> You know, you actually sound like you love her tons


That's what people tell me, but I don't know :scratchhead:



> but are deeply mad at her.


If I was mad at her wouldn't I act differently? Or has my anger resided so deep that it has shut down everything else? Meh

I can't figure it out *sigh*


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

When you check out of a situation, it's a protector part.

Emotions still bubble beneath the surface.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So what do I do? Somehow check back in and see if there's something there? Take her out? A date?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> So what do I do? Somehow check back in and see if there's something there? Take her out? A date?


Talk to your counselor about what it means to be checked out. Just what it means to be protecting yourself. Do some role play and observe how you feel about it.

If you are frightened, work with your therapist to overcome your fear.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, we have already talked about my hardening defence mechanism which kicked in hardcore when I was 12 and since has been a come and go problem. I've done soulsearching but still feel nothing.

If it's fear I would be enticed to plunge into it to get rid of the fear, like I foolishly did on V-day. So thats not it either.

Maybe the love has just really gone no?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well, we have already talked about my hardening defence mechanism which kicked in hardcore when I was 12 and since has been a come and go problem. I've done soulsearching but still feel nothing.
> 
> If it's fear I would be enticed to plunge into it to get rid of the fear, like I foolishly did on V-day. So thats not it either.
> 
> Maybe the love has just really gone no?


When that "kicked in" at 12 years old, what was going on in your life?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Got left on the streets because mum's bf didn't like me around and because I reminded her too much of dad yada yada yada, and other circumstances forced me to become independent to survive. The thing is, this mechanism was fueled by hate. I don't have any hate towards STBX.

It's past now though, and I've already forgiven and forgotten, legacy of six years of criminal life remains though. Either way that mechanism combined with my sometimes awkward sense of humor has kept me sane (mostly) well into adulthood.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Got left on the streets because mum's bf didn't like me around and because I reminded her too much of dad yada yada yada, and other circumstances forced me to become independent to survive. The thing is, this mechanism was fueled by hate. I don't have any hate towards STBX.
> 
> It's past now though, and I've already forgiven and forgotten, legacy of six years of criminal life remains though. Either way that mechanism combined with my sometimes awkward sense of humor has kept me sane (mostly) well into adulthood.


Sounds like a little boy that got abandoned.

That's a massive wound.

Why wouldn't you develop huge defensive emotions to protect that youngster?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not really, like hey - I'm still sane mostly. Mum wanted me to be out of the house that night but I was paralysed, so I begged for a week and she gave me 3 days. I hated myself for begging so I moved on the second with one of my friend's parents, who then kicked me out, then I moved on until I realised I was not anyone's child anymore so I had to be as much of a man as I could be at that age.

Went to centerlink but fell through a loophole in the system and couldn't get government support at the age of 12, couldn't get a job, was too little. So I had to resort to crime and thankfully through networking I got work. I lived independently since then, and learnt to appreciate freedom that other kids didn't have. I was good at it too, never got caught until 18 and that was when my father found me during a case involving attempted murder. But with the help of friends, I left that life behind. Some others had it worse like my first gf for example, but she herself was strong and also left behind that life for a legit career.

When I was 12 the pain only lasted 2 weeks after being kicked out before the mechanism developed and settled. It did serve me well however, I developed psychopathy but still maintained cognitive function so I was able to get my hands dirty yet clean when it comes to the law but felt nothing as well.

Nowadays this mechanism is just an old relic of my past. It comes and goes, but when it comes to my STBX, meh. I don't hold enough hate for this mechanism so I don't know if it has truly hardened me or if I really just fell out of love.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

To believe that sort of experience doesn't affect your emotional life right now is folly.

You learned to survive.

What you also learned is that loving people leads to bad things for you.

So, you learned to push away.

And, you wonder why you don't feel anything now?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> To believe that sort of experience doesn't affect your emotional life right now is folly.
> 
> You learned to survive.
> 
> ...


This is truth RD. I shut my emotions down due to several childhood issues. That was one of the problems that caused the breakdown of my marriage.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> This is truth RD. I shut my emotions down due to several childhood issues. That was one of the problems that caused the breakdown of my marriage.


It's likely your wife is broken emotionally also.

I know RD's wife is.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> It's likely your wife is broken emotionally also.
> 
> I know RD's wife is.


My wife is very emotionally broken, I can tell you all about her childhood later, if you wish.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> My wife is very emotionally broken, I can tell you all about her childhood later, if you wish.


Anytime.

It would certainly explain some of her behavior with you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I know my daughter will break my heart eventually, but I still love her regardless. I also fell in love with STBX once upon a time, and I also came to feel love with my first ironically only when we broke up - she was one of the few that stood by me and risked it all to get me out of that life safely. Unlike her I didn't have an adopted family of shotgun wielding bikers to keep me safe.

Hence I'm confident I'm over my past, hell I can't even remember half of it now, was so long ago. Then again, STBX did sting me quite a bit, so the mechanism probably kicked in. I have forgiven her though, just like I've forgiven my parents. The thing about this mechanism is that it is based mostly on hate, it uses the hate to cloud out everything else. But I don't have the hate anymore.

Unless the mechanism itself has evolved to something that I can no longer understand and subconsciously shut everything down without the need of any hate as emotional input but I don't know. Either way, I can't feel sh-t.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> This is truth RD. I shut my emotions down due to several childhood issues. That was one of the problems that caused the breakdown of my marriage.


I shut down my emotions when STBX and I split sure but I have no reason to keep it shut down now (well, still a few reasons but meh) and if anything I've been trying to feel. And I feel nothing.

Meh I dunno


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> I shut down my emotions when STBX and I split sure but I have no reason to keep it shut down now (well, still a few reasons but meh) and if anything I've been trying to feel. And I feel nothing.
> 
> Meh I dunno


It's a subconscious thing.

If you are to open yourself, it will require you to go back there and take care of that little kid.

Actually talk to him. Reassure him. Visualize him.

A magnificent competent RD has "got this". While I appreciate all you're STILL doing to protect me, I want to reach out and will reach out. I'll never let someone hurt you that way again.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Anytime.
> 
> It would certainly explain some of her behavior with you.


I'll post it in my thread later on when I get off work .


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> It's a subconscious thing.
> 
> If you are to open yourself, it will require you to go back there and take care of that little kid.
> 
> ...


Well, I've already tried soulsearching in that regard: That kid grew up, merged with his 'big brother', and the two has become one -> Me!

As for what that kid went through, big brother was born, and without the big brother the kid would have been dead. Thankfully it's over, even though alot of people got hurt in the process when big brother emerged, but meh, those fkwits had it coming to them anyway. The kid was safe, and the two gradually became one over the years.

Anyways I'm no longer schized about it, my past is over. I mentioned it only to describe the history of my hardening mechanism. But you guys seem convinced that it's still a problem :scratchhead:

Maybe it is but if it's subconscious... well, if I can't see the enemy I can't kill it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

He's still there, I promise.

He's protecting you - fiercely.

Let him know you've got this.

Tell me what he looks like.

(Comments like "my past is over" and dismissing what others earnestly tell you is a hallmark of your posting career here. If you keep it up, I'll think you were insincere in telling me you are ready to listen. Because I know what listening is, and that's not it)


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I know my daughter will break my heart eventually, but I still love her regardless. I also fell in love with STBX once upon a time, and I also came to feel love with my first ironically only when we broke up - she was one of the few that stood by me and risked it all to get me out of that life safely. Unlike her I didn't have an adopted family of shotgun wielding bikers to keep me safe.
> 
> Hence I'm confident I'm over my past, hell I can't even remember half of it now, was so long ago. Then again, STBX did sting me quite a bit, so the mechanism probably kicked in. I have forgiven her though, just like I've forgiven my parents. The thing about this mechanism is that it is based mostly on hate, it uses the hate to cloud out everything else. But I don't have the hate anymore.
> 
> Unless the mechanism itself has evolved to something that I can no longer understand and subconsciously shut everything down without the need of any hate as emotional input but I don't know. Either way, I can't feel sh-t.


You are never "over" your past, trust me it makes up who you are as an adult. Many years of therapy as a child and much soul searching as an adult has convinced me of that.

You need to search it, think honestly about it and come to terms with it. Learn from it. We are no longer those hurt and scared children but we need to put them to rest because trust me, they're still in there.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm not dismissing what you are saying, but I've already moved on from this, like re-opening a wound that has already healed.

But if you insist...

That kid was a fked up idiot, he made a choice to support and live with his mother who raised him a lover boy when he should have chose dad who although never spent time with him was a man of responsibility and strength (for the most part). And he got what was coming to him, a wake up call. He needed to grow the fk up, he needed to learn that it's not who you trust it's what you trust them to do, he heard mum moaning with her bf on the next room the same night she told him to get the fk out. He knew he was betrayed but remained paralysed in his room in pathetic tears.

So big brother had to emerge, big brother had to take over. If one side of me emerged the stronger it's the big brother. If you want to seperate my two personalities that has already been merged, then ok, it's big brother who you're talking to, and that kid would be dead if he didn't have his uses. Empathy and sensitivity, traits of EQ or emotional intelligence, intuition, kept me, or big brother safe from threats that big brother couldn't have been able to sense or see.

Big brother protects the kid but also understands the kid, and the need to feel loved and cherished. Big brother can't be human without the kid, but he's not as stupid as that kid, so he makes walls. What does big brother look like in his pure form? Visualisation? Lion. What does the kid look like? Sheep.

Big brother doesn't like the kid being pushed around. Likes to play hero, but knows when to let the kid take over for some fun as well. What does the kid feel towards STBX...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I miss her


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh* But that's not love is it?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

smallsteps said:


> You are never "over" your past, trust me it makes up who you are as an adult. Many years of therapy as a child and much soul searching as an adult has convinced me of that.
> 
> You need to search it, think honestly about it and come to terms with it. Learn from it. We are no longer those hurt and scared children but we need to put them to rest because trust me, they're still in there.


As a functional member of society with mostly sane behaviour and having merged my two schized personalities isn't it safe to consider myself over my past?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Nope missing her is not loving her. I "miss" the companionship of my husband. I miss us as a family. I miss what we had, the good moments at least but I don't love him anymore. I love him like I do any other human being but I do not "love" him like a wife loves a husband. That's over and done.

You need to figure that out for yourself. 

You need to figure out if "big brother" RD is throwing up the wall that's not allowing you to love. If he is, you need to tell him to stand down, grown up RD can take it from here.

If it's not and your "love" for your stbxw is gone then it lessens your chance for reconciliation


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> I'm not dismissing what you are saying, but I've already moved on from this, like re-opening a wound that has already healed.
> 
> But if you insist...
> 
> ...


Big brother is protecting the kid right now.

That's why you feel nothing.

But, your internal disquiet indicates that's not a solution that will bring you any peace.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> As a functional member of society with mostly sane behaviour and having merged my two schized personalities isn't it safe to consider myself over my past?


I'm a functional member of society. I have my moments  but I am sane, merging little ss with grown up ss. 

I have "COME TO TERMS" with my past.

I consider it when I look back on the decisions of my adulthood up until now.

I recognize it as I'm making decisions about my future and who I am now.

It's "PART" of me and always will be.

I will never be "over it"


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

smallsteps said:


> Nope missing her is not loving her. I "miss" the companionship of my husband. I miss us as a family. I miss what we had, the good moments at least but I don't love him anymore. I love him like I do any other human being but I do not "love" him like a wife loves a husband. That's over and done.
> 
> You need to figure that out for yourself.
> 
> ...


Well, I just reflected on it, and I don't normally seperate myself... I guess I just fell out of love, which means bad news.



Conrad said:


> Big brother is protecting the kid right now.
> 
> That's why you feel nothing.
> 
> But, your internal disquiet indicates that's not a solution that will bring you any peace.


How do I know it's my "big brother" side keeping me from feeling love, or if I simply fell out of love? How can I tell the difference?



smallsteps said:


> I'm a functional member of society. I have my moments  but I am sane, merging little ss with grown up ss.
> 
> I have "COME TO TERMS" with my past.
> 
> ...


Well, guess if you put it that way, it has become a part of me as well. Makes it challenging to move on however, as I can't relate to a 'normal' woman, which most are.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

If anything though, I do feel lust, alot of lust, probably built up over not having sex for 8 months. Hell I kiss another woman and felt like throwing up but when I think of STBX I don't seem to have any reservations probably because she's familiar. I'm very tempted to work towards a FWB arrangement but with our history... well, you know how that leads if you read it on the first page.

And considering her issues, this may interfere with her own healing process and I don't want to be selfish in suggesting such a thing. Hell I still whack over the nude photos we took in the past from time to time. Bah!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> How do I know it's my "big brother" side keeping me from feeling love, or if I simply fell out of love? How can I tell the difference?


Listen to yourself.

You feel like throwing up when you kiss another woman.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

But it could mean I'm just not ready no? =/

Or maybe because she was too easy and I liked a challenge?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> But it could mean I'm just not ready no? =/
> 
> Or maybe because she was too easy and I liked a challenge?


Argue with me all you want.

I won't.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

When I first joined here, I argued, I rationalised, I questioned, I even defended by STBXW on this board when people told me what a POS she was.

I was asleep - like you I have two sides, a hardened, cold, defensive side, and a fun loving, childish, loving side. I have what I call "the real WWB" and my "darkside". The fun-loving, charismatic me (the real WWB) was dormant for a very long time, but why did I hibernate him? 

Because he's vulnerable. He's vulnerable to hurt, he's weak, he's needy, he's emotional. But he's also the side of me that feels.

My darkside is calm, cool, collected, a protector, detached, and emotionally crippled. He can channel rage and fury like no other animal on this planet, if the need arises. He manipulates people to get what he wants, because that's the only way he knows how.

I'm not quite sure how, but something happened when my STBXW walked out, that allowed the real me and the darkside to coexist. I've still got a long way to go until it's a perfect harmony, but they're getting along better.

It's time to wake up kid RD - and don't put big bro to bed either, let them both be awake. Let them interact, explore the feelings and the differences between the two sides. Let them accept one another.

I get from your post that you hate yourself because of the way you were. What good is that doing you? Forgive yourself, let it go and move on, otherwise you'll never be truly happy.

These people are trying to help you out of the kindness of their hearts. I don't mean to sound like a d*ck, but do your best to listen, they know what they're talking about. Take it from someone who was just like you not so long ago.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

To live an authentic rich life, adult RD must be able to nurture young RD AND ask Big Brother to take a step back and let him.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I just reflected on it, and I don't normally seperate myself... I guess I just fell out of love, which means bad news.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The point is you have to "tell" big brother you can take it from here. If you drop your defenses, do you feel love for your wife?

As for wanting to throw up when kissing another woman, sure it could mean you're just not ready to move on. Some guys do attach feelings to sex. It's rare but it happens. A lot of men can separate the two.

It could be you are still in love with your wife so subconsciously you're repulsed by other women. 

If you want to give your marriage another shot then do it. Don't do it because it's "familiar". Don't do it because you don't want to deal with starting over. If you genuinely miss her and you have feelings for her then do it. 

You need to think. The way you're answering you sound like your brain is running at a 1000 mph. You can't make decisions that way. Take time and think.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> As for wanting to throw up when kissing another woman, sure it could mean you're just not ready to move on. Some guys do attach feelings to sex. It's rare but it happens. A lot of men can separate the two.


This is me. I don't have a choice in the matter though, I can't give my marriage another shot, my STBXW is completely unwilling. Make sure whatever you do, you do what's right for you.

See how you feel once you big bro drops the shield RD - you might even like it. I love being able to feel after years of "Meh", as you'd say.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Look I am the type of woman that although I was destroyed inside and did all the bargaining and pleading in my head I threw the wall up the night he left.

Aside from the night he left that I asked him to give us a shot and a general (not a pleading) e mail to him 3 weeks later, I NEVER asked him to come back. I refused to let him see the vulnerable side of me. I needed to protect myself and not give him the satisfaction of seeing me hurt.

That wall is still up and will stay up when it comes to him. He has done nothing to want me to do otherwise, but it has come down with others. It not in my nature to be detached. I'm also learning not to attach in an unhealthy way.

Little ss knows that adult ss can handle things herself now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> This is me. I don't have a choice in the matter though, I can't give my marriage another shot, my STBXW is completely unwilling.


That's how it is today.

Tomorrow may be a different story.


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

Want to know the difference between 'still being in love with your wife' and 'just not ready to date yet'?

Not ready to date yet would not make you sick. It would leave you feeling indifferent. You'd feel more of the "meh".

But you _didn't_ feel "meh". You felt *sick* at the thought of, or while being with, another woman. *That* is love. *That is what many others on this board wish their spouses would feel.*


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I medidated on what has been said this morning...

The thing is, both "kid" and "big brother" has already coexisted for quite some time as I've mentioned. Both sides are me now, kid listens to big brother and big brother listens to kid, but big brother reigns supreme. Both sides united to make the man I am today, so seperating the two is not really possible except for brief moments of reflection.

When STBX raised the white flag, big brother did take a step back but I guess remained guarded for treachery. He hates what happened to the kid who was naive, stupid and vulnerable. Fast forward to present day, guess that's what is stopping me... trust.

The kid believes her, or at the very least believes that she believes what she sees, that she was sincere. Big brother however, keeps a watchful guard, and I guess, won't let the kid feel until he is sure that not only STBX is sincere, but can prove that she has changed. However -> it can never be proven unless one takes a leap of faith. Big brother doesn't believe in faith.

So in the end, guess you're right, the walls are still up preventing me from feeling. The walls go straight up as soon as I see her face, probably why I feel like I don't love her. Yet in my quiet times, when she's not around I think about her, miss her, feel bad for hurting her. And with others, bleh.



> But you didn't feel "meh". You felt sick at the thought of, or while being with, another woman. That is love. That is what many others on this board wish their spouses would feel.


And if that is true, then it seems I lied to my wife then everytime I told her that I no longer loved her.

Ok, now what?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I medidated on what has been said this morning...
> 
> The thing is, both "kid" and "big brother" has already coexisted for quite some time as I've mentioned. Both sides are me now, kid listens to big brother and big brother listens to kid, but big brother reigns supreme. Both sides united to make the man I am today, so seperating the two is not really possible except for brief moments of reflection.
> 
> ...


Now you find out if that's true, and then take appropriate action based on the outcome.


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

Now you have to become clear whether or not you could see yourself with her. I get that you need to see hard proof of the changes. I'm clumsy with my words here, but you loving her does not equal you wanting to be with her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I'll see tomorrow, I'll try to look at her differently without the shields up, see how I feel. See if it's possible... or I can take her out today while our daughter is in school... it's still quiet at work until christmas approaches.

Ok I'll call her up in a few hours, see if she wants to catch up.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> It not in my nature to be detached. I'm also learning not to attach in an unhealthy way.


This is me, again.



> That's how it is today.
> 
> Tomorrow may be a different story.


The only time my story will change is when I can completely let go - that's the only possible outcome I see from my situation.

I'm 99.99999999999999% certain that she won't ever want to R.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> This is me, again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I was in your position, my 'big brother' side would have taken over completely like it has until STBX raised her 'white flag'.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> If I was in your position, my 'big brother' side would have taken over completely like it has until STBX raised her 'white flag'.


That's because kid RD and big bro coexist, but are not joined.

One is black, one is white, you should be grey.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

When that's like joining oil and water lol


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

And for what it's worth, it's not a now or never. You have time. You have options. You are not trapped.

You could go through with the divorce and start building a relationship with each other again on the other side of marriage. You could stop the divorce for now and see where things are going. Is there a pressing need to be divorced right this minute? Could you feasibly be separated for a while longer?
She might very well not have moved on at all. She might be putting up a front.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The problem is that due to the laws of this country we have to seperate for at least a year before we can legally file for divorce.

As for my wife... I find it strange how a nymphomaniac like her has not fked someone else throughout the eight months seperated but perhaps after what I said to her recently she may indeed finally have. 

If that is the case, I can forgive her easily, hell I wouldn't even have held it against her if she did fk someone else already. The thing is, it's always easy to fake 'I've changed' during seperation. Now sure STBX may be sincere in believing that she has, but she has her own schiz, her own demons.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> When that's like joining oil and water lol


It's like joining oil and water in a deep fat fryer.

It's not easy.

Just give it a shot, what have you got to lose?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Another reason too... I pushed her away because I was sick of her emotional dependence on me, I wanted her to spread her wings, because I wanted her to go back to the woman she was before marriage, proud, independent, strong.

In doing so I failed to appreciate the wife she has become, she may not have been independent but she did forfill her duties as a wife and mother to the letter. So I dunno


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> but she has her own schiz, her own demons.


I think just about everyone does.


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

Don't we all?

So figure out if you can live with hers. 8 months ago you couldn't. Now you've grown and have more self awareness. She might too, she might not. 

Are you still in IC?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> It's like joining oil and water in a deep fat fryer.
> 
> It's not easy.
> 
> Just give it a shot, what have you got to lose?


It's not easy because it's not possible lol

They've joined enough to make me... ME 
And enough so I don't communicate in schized multiple personalities or something


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

anja said:


> Don't we all?
> 
> So figure out if you can live with hers. 8 months ago you couldn't. Now you've grown and have more self awareness. She might too, she might not.
> 
> Are you still in IC?


Yes I'm still in IC

And no, her demon is the utter bane of me. It is manipulative, it is sadistic, it finds pleasure in breaking people, it is selfish and demanding, and finds my own pride and stature a delicious target. It manifests itself in her sexual fantasies, lust is its domain. She was an ex-escort by choice not by necessity in her youth.

But meh, if she has learnt... then there's no real reason why I shouldn't give her another shot, unless I fell out of love with her, which I guess I haven't.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> It's not easy because it's not possible lol
> 
> They've joined enough to make me... ME
> And enough so I don't communicate in schized multiple personalities or something


I liked my black and white analogy better anyway .


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, in terms of morality, the two are in agreement - in greyness. But that's it lol


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok guys, I organised a lunch with STBX, any advice for today?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Ok guys, I organised a lunch with STBX, any advice for today?


Likely too soon.

But, since you're committed to it, make an effort to detach and view the interaction @50,000 feet.

Don't fight with her. Don't take any live bait.

Observe much and don't explain anything.

Just ask how she is and what she's up to.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

We haven't been fighting for a very long time, I doubt we will fight now especially since we have nothing left to fight about.

How is it too soon? I can always cancel and make up some excuse about work.

So detach and observe? Ok, will do


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Ok guys, I organised a lunch with STBX, any advice for today?


On top of what Conrad has suggested also try to be aware of your own feelings as you're observing her and observing your interactions with her.

Keep a clear head. This is no time to get distracted.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

It's likely a bit too soon because you haven't gone deep to take care of 12 year old RD.

Big Brother isn't going to help here.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

That kid has merged with big brother to the point quite a few aspects of who he was has already been extinguished; naivete and pathetic needy behaviour. He has already evolved to merely my sensitivity, empathy, and emotional side that has allowed me to love but is no longer naive enough to allow himself to be completely dependent and to be betrayed, because he's merged with 'big brother'. 

Too late for any resurrection of 12 yr old stupidity, 6 years in crime solidified the futility of his sorry existence and after 10 years of healing I now only keep aspects of him that what makes me sane and not a psychopath, the rest are gone and good riddance.

I've reopened my can of worms to see how my dimensions are faring as you suggested, but this is just how it is. When you deal with the "kid", you have to deal with "big brother" too, because the two, are me. Seperating aspects of them is elastic, the two are already intertwined despite their differences.

Anyways, we'll talk on this more later, I have a lunch to attend.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

"This is how it is" is give up language


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, that was weird.

I tried to detach as much as possible but it became increasingly difficult as time went by. I'll explain; we caught up with the usual, school/daughter, life, games and hobbies, work. She didn't have anything on for the day so I invited her for a day out. She was reluctant at first, so I let her go, but then she asked me why I've been acting strange recently, spending time with her and all that. I told her that I wanted to see how she was doing. She insisted that she's fine and that she told me that the last time.

She told me to stop worrying about her and that she'll be fine and appreciated me being honest and straightforward with her (when I told her that I no longer love her), on that brief moment I felt something, but then she said she would prefer it if I let her move on by herself and that she's not ready to be friends again yet. Walls went back up.

We hugged and that was that. Meh


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> "This is how it is" is give up language


I don't see the point of bringing back a dead aspect of me. Not to mention that side of me was useless except for the essentials that make me a complete person that were inherited as time went by.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Anyways, she's moving on now... even if I do love her it's for nothing now, I need to figure out how to move on myself.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Strange... it's like I'm realising what I'm losing now.

What did I observe... hmmm, well, it's obvious she's given up on trying or hoping for R.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> I don't see the point of bringing back a dead aspect of me. Not to mention that side of me was useless except for the essentials that make me a complete person that were inherited as time went by.


Ok - good luck to you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks for your help regardless, it softened me enough to realise some feeling is still left for my wife.

Not that it matters now though, I have to let her go for her own sake right? Besides she seems to be moving on, and I doubt it's a front. She deserves that much anyway.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Thanks for your help regardless, it softened me enough to realise some feeling is still left for my wife.
> 
> Not that it matters now though, I have to let her go for her own sake right? Besides she seems to be moving on, and I doubt it's a front. She deserves that much anyway.


What do you have to say about it?

Isn't it her decision?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What can I say?

It is her decision. I'll just have to move on myself.

Besides, I rejected her enough times since she tried to R. I don't expect her to want to R anymore. When she said she appreciated my honesty today I almost went out and admitted that I wasn't as straightforward as I would have liked but I bit my tongue. Lucky too considering what she said next.

I would have confused her and sent her on another WTF tripout.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> What can I say?
> 
> It is her decision. I'll just have to move on myself.
> 
> ...


You keep letting Big Brother push her away, she'll go away.

If you're ok with that, so am I.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You saying I should have just out and said it? That will just make it harder for her.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> You saying I should have just out and said it? That will just make it harder for her.


And, if it makes it harder for her, why is that your problem?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I don't see the point of bringing back a dead aspect of me. Not to mention that side of me was useless except for the essentials that make me a complete person that were inherited as time went by.


I highly doubt that side of you was useless. Emotions aren't useless things, they're what make us human. Emotions drive us, they guard us, they make us look out for the ones we love.

Besides, big bro had to be born from somewhere.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Here's an idea, just be honest.

Bottom line, tell her you aren't 100% sure of what you're feeling. That maybe there is something there. Does she want to give it one more shot?

Maybe she feels the same but at this point both of you have walls up, neither of you want to seem vulnerable so you'll just push on this path.

What's the worst that can happen? She says outright "no I feel nothing, I'm moving on"? If she says that then you know it's done. Then you can begin to move on knowing you gave it everything you had.

The other option is go through the divorce and if there are still feelings on both parts when all is said and done start completely over again.


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## oviid (Sep 27, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> Here's an idea, just be honest.
> 
> Bottom line, tell her you aren't 100% sure of what you're feeling. That maybe there is something there. Does she want to give it one more shot?
> 
> ...


I think this is great advice. I agree that being 100% honest is the absolute best way to go. When I told my wife last week exactly how I felt I was glad I did it because I knew that if I didn't I would think about it always. I'm not saying that has changed things but they were things I needed to say and now I can look ahead knowing I didn't hold them back.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> You saying I should have just out and said it? That will just make it harder for her.


It's codependent to chicken out of something you want for fear of looking bad. It's just an excuse.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm still not even sure what I feel... but if I'm going to go all lovey dovey on her I'd better do it in style. I'm seeing her again tomorrow to pick up my daughter...

Well I can insist on another day out with our daughter, but maybe that's not the most romantic time. Or I can attend church with them on Sunday, and blame my honesty on her god haha. Or I can wait till next week but I doubt she'll agree to go out again considering what she said.

Hmmm, which time would be best?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I'm still not even sure what I feel... but if I'm going to go all lovey dovey on her I'd better do it in style. I'm seeing her again tomorrow to pick up my daughter...
> 
> Well I can insist on another day out with our daughter, but maybe that's not the most romantic time. Or I can attend church with them on Sunday, and blame my honesty on her god haha. Or I can wait till next week but I doubt she'll agree to go out again considering what she said.
> 
> Hmmm, which time would be best?


No, stop thinking so big. Maybe just a simple meeting over coffee. 

If the situation is right, grab a few minutes before you pick up your daughter.

A simple "I'm having second thoughts about this. I don't think I'm ready to end this because I still have feelings for you. How do you feel about that?" Is all you need to get a line of communication open.

Then depending on her reaction take it from there. Build on that. You may even have to leave her with how you're feeling and let her digest it before she has an answer.

Think simple.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She'll probably be half asleep and rubbing crap outta her eyes tomorrow morning... but, alright, coffee in the morning it is. And if she's still in bed I'll make her breakfast.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> She'll probably be half asleep and rubbing crap outta her eyes tomorrow morning... but, alright, coffee in the morning it is. And if she's still in bed I'll make her breakfast.


You're something else RD. I remember responding to one of your threads when I was still going through my dark time. I think you were being serious about missing having her in your bed and I sort of spun it in a different direction about sleeping with our pets.

I must say thank you for that because I'm pretty sure that thread got me through a bad day.

Maybe telling her when she wakes up isn't such a bad idea. She'll be less reactive. She might be more receptive to listen and absorb what you're saying. It will give her something to think about during the day.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

smallsteps said:


> No, stop thinking so big. Maybe just a simple meeting over coffee.
> 
> If the situation is right, grab a few minutes before you pick up your daughter.
> 
> ...


It didn't get screwed up overnight.

It certainly won't get fixed overnight either.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She'll prolly be rubbing her eyes even more trying to figure out if she's dreaming (or in a nightmare!) heh

Alright, wake up call it is tomorrow morning


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> She'll prolly be rubbing her eyes even more trying to figure out if she's dreaming (or in a nightmare!) heh
> 
> Alright, wake up call it is tomorrow morning


You do have a light side RD. Lol.

Sounds like a plan. Remember, less is more. Keep it simple and this is only a starting point. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Good luck!!


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## anja (Mar 12, 2013)

RD let me just say that I love how open you are not only to others opinions but also to change in yourself. You are stronger than you think!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You are getting great advice.

Just know I'm pulling for you and have been since I first read your story years ago.

You are an inspiration to me. I only wish you could see your worth.

Stay in therapy and never ever give up.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well guys... things didn't go so well =/

She was already awake and my daughter was already bouncing around so I suggested coffee, but she reminded what we talked about yesterday (me leaving her alone). I told her it would only take five minutes so she relented. Got our daughter preoccupied in the meantime.

So I reminded her about that talk we had a while ago about me not loving her, and that I wasn't as straight forward as I would have liked. I told her that since seperation I've been confused and unsure about how I felt. She asked me what I was saying, I told her that I hardened my heart to the point that I couldn't feel anything for her, but that I've recently come to realise that I still do have feelings for her...

She just gave me a blank stare... silence... then got rather edgy... I swear I could see steam coming out of her ears at this point, asked me in a rather aggressive tone "you're telling me this now?" I apologised, reminded her that I have my own issues to sort out as well. She said she doesn't appreciate having her feelings toyed around but I insisted that I'm not toying with her and apologised for making her feel that way. I told her that I do miss her, care about her, and that she was right to suspect my intentions with taking her out recently. She asked me why I was telling her all this if not to toy with her and I told her that I would regret it forever if I never told her, even if it's too late. There was silence, she just looked at me, then looked away, and then said "look, just go" so I left it on that note.

Bah! Now she's being difficult! But I don't really blame her. I hope we can still remain civil =/
Maybe this was a bad idea, hell I should have saw this coming and prepared an ace up my sleeve, a last minute gesture or gift or something... *sigh*


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well guys... things didn't go so well =/
> 
> She was already awake and my daughter was already bouncing around so I suggested coffee, but she reminded what we talked about yesterday (me leaving her alone). I told her it would only take five minutes so she relented. Got our daughter preoccupied in the meantime.
> 
> ...


No... now be authentic.

That's what she suspects... that this is a load of BS

If your actions back up your words, something good may come of it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks guys btw... I just hope this isn't for nothing



Conrad said:


> No... now be authentic.
> 
> That's what she suspects... that this is a load of BS
> 
> If your actions back up your words, something good may come of it.


Ok, so what now? I won't be able to do anything till tomorrow, I'll be busy all day with my daughter. And if she's really mad at me then what can I do?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Thanks guys btw... I just hope this isn't for nothing


What if it is?

Or are you merely giving to get?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

We had a good civil co-parenting arrangement going and possible reconciliation as friends, I don't want that to go all to hell, so yes I do have sh-t to lose not to mention my daughter would suffer as well if relations become sour again.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> We had a good civil co-parenting arrangement going and possible reconciliation as friends, I don't want that to go all to hell, so yes I do have sh-t to lose not to mention my daughter would suffer as well if relations become sour again.


So, inside Big Brother is telling you to push away.

Danger signs flashing.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Looks like if I am to be authentic though I will have to remain unhardened from now on. Now I understand what you meant by 'likely too soon', but fk it, I survived due to adaptability in my youth, if that's what it takes then fine.

No more hardening, I want to feel everything, and if she wants to break my heart again in two then so be it.



Conrad said:


> So, inside Big Brother is telling you to push away.
> 
> Danger signs flashing.


No, that's just my logical side assessing the risks.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Looks like if I am to be authentic though I will have to remain unhardened from now on. Now I understand what you meant by 'likely too soon', but fk it, I survived due to adaptability in my youth, if that's what it takes then fine.
> 
> No more hardening, I want to feel everything, and if she wants to break my heart again in two then so be it.
> 
> ...


When I read your words, I can see your fear about opening up and letting her "win". That 12 year old is afraid she'll hurt you.

Ask him to step back.

This is something you have to do for you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh* Well, I've already open up to her, and worst comes to worst she is now in a position to get her revenge if she so wishes it, but if she does then at least I won't have to keep suffering from indecision anymore right?

So it's a win either way. Big brother is convinced, as long as our daughter won't suffer from this.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> Faith does make it easier at the very least no? As* for forgiveness one thing I did learn about it was how it set me free from hatred of my parents for abandonment at childhood. I wanted to be free and I have been for years.*
> 
> I don't believe forgiveness can apply in all circumstances however as I don't believe turning the other cheek all the time is a healthy principle to adopt. Besides I'm aware that I love my vengeance.


Just getting back to this thread... lots of pages, I have no idea what the latest says! On Forgiveness...I don't believe there is a better author to explain it's principles if you TRULY want to go there and set yourself FREE from your past and let go of the hatred that binds you, your upbringing, the unfairness.. Highly recommended read.... 

The Art of Forgiving: Lewis B. Smedes:



> *Conrad said*: No... now be authentic.
> 
> That's what she suspects... that this is a load of BS


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks SA. I'll meditate abit tonight. For now my daughter is playing with my cat but we're heading out soon.

If all goes well, my daughter's prayer may be answered after all, and I may yet forfill my promise to her. But lets not get too ahead of ourselves. Can't believe I just did what I did... but, I do feel alot better letting it out, thanks guys for pushing me to it.

It's better than sitting around going back and forth in my mind with indecision.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Remember when you said that you loved the person she was early in the relationship? Strong, independent minded, self reliant. Who is this person you see now? The woman who was always there. This is her core, this is what will carry her through her life. 

The dependence on you is a natural adjustment to new demands of a complex life. The core strength will always be there, always ready to step in if you don't. 

You seem to have a static vision of people and relationships. There is a fluidity that allows us to adapt. The adaptations are sometimes scripted. The dependence of a mother on her mate, a father doting on his children are examples. 

sounds like she is reacting to your hot and cold states the way a person who has the proper amount of self respect would. She wanted to be with you but she did not need it. 

Maybe you mistook her dependence on you as a burden. You took her offer of reconciliation a weakness.

It was a strength - an independent women who could attract other men and take care of herself and her child chose to make herself vulnerable to one man. It was a gift of a strong good woman who honors her commitments. 

I don't know if you will find anyone like her. You can find someone to love and to love you, there is no doubt on that. She will never find anyone like you either. You are both unique.

Since you both can easily find someone else, neither of you should feel weak by choosing each other. Two unique people having each other's back. 

If you are going to do this, understand her and yourself. If she decides to recommit to you, it will be total. If she doesn't it will be total. She does not believe you. If you run hot and cold she will never will.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

BTW take your time, be patent, be honest and be strait.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks Catherine, and well... I just wasn't sure if her offer of reconciliation was a trap or not, but considering her reaction when I rejected her, I guess not, or at the very least that she believes she's sincere. She's showing alot of backbone now...

And I would lie if I didn't say that I'm not finding her rather desirable right now. One thing I do find strange is that I felt a wave of feeling come in only after I admitted to her how I felt. It's weird =/
Anyways, I'll see her again tomorrow, for now I'm just going to sit tight and give her some time and space. 

Just took my daughter out for a drive and lunch and got yelled at for entering the ladies toilet because the mens were full and she really needed to go. FFS ladies its not like you have fking urinals -.-
Meh, if all goes well I won't have to deal with this single daddy BS again. If not then... bah to hell with those ladies.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Give her time to process what you've said. It probably came as a big surprise to her. 

Don't expect too much right away either. If she does agree to a reconciliation it's going to take time and patience. You both have a lot of work to do both individually and together.

I hope everything works out for you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

For her... I can wait

I regret turning her down when she tried to R the last time. But I guess if I didn't, I wouldn't have known she was sincere so... maybe whatever has happened has happened for a reason.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> For her... I can wait
> 
> I regret turning her down when she tried to R the last time. But I guess if I didn't, I wouldn't have known she was sincere so... maybe whatever has happened has happened for a reason.


RD-

If there is something I'm learning through this whole process it's that everything happens, happens for a reason. It's almost like a domino effect, in order for one thing to happen, something else has to happen before.

Things will happen in their own time, we can't force it or rush it.

You needed to appreciate her and wake up to the fact that you do indeed still love her. This may not have been possible when she came to you.

No matter what happens though, continue to open up the way you have been. Hopefully the two of you with time and patience will work things out. If for some reason things don't work out the way you hope for you will need to continue to take down the walls. First and foremost for the sake of your daughter but also for any future relationship you may have.

I really hope all this works out for you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Walls are never up with my daughter, which led STBX to feel like I love my daughter more than her at times, which is true.

Well, I'll see her again in the morning... but chances are she'll try to avoid me for a time. Oh well.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Walls are never up with my daughter, which led STBX to feel like I love my daughter more than her at times, which is true.
> 
> Well, I'll see her again in the morning... but chances are she'll try to avoid me for a time. Oh well.


Kids are "safe".

They won't hurt 12 year old abandoned boys.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Just took my daughter out for a drive and lunch and got yelled at for entering the ladies toilet because the mens were full and she really needed to go. FFS ladies its not like you have fking urinals -.-
> Meh, if all goes well I won't have to deal with this single daddy BS again. If not then... bah to hell with those ladies.


:lol::lol::rofl::rofl:


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Not what I meant RD. Kids learn by example. If she sees you with walls up around people she will follow in your footsteps.

I have a 24 yr old a 20 yr old and a 15 yr old. I know what I'm saying.

I never realized how much my older 2 are just like their father until now. I though I did a good job counteracting his influence. 

I still have hope for the 15 yr old.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm proud of you RD.

Being authentic and vulnerable is risky and sometimes painful.

And you did it.

There are no guarantees in life but if you can be true to yourself that's all that matters.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks Mavash, I guess I was out of options

@Smallsteps

Well, I can't be vulnerable to EVERYONE and nor do I want my daughter to be as well -> if so, I may have problems swatting flies (young men) buzzing around her once she comes of age. I already have a problem with her being a little too affectionate with people (not from my side of the family) and in the past she was being kissy kissy with the boys at her school.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

No not everyone. Just people you are close to or have close relationships with.

That's kids for ya'. They're free spirits, no walls.

How has today gone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Its still early in the morning, STBX won't be here for a few hours at least. Daughter's asleep with our cat and I'm enjoying my sweet solitude.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Its still early in the morning, STBX won't be here for a few hours at least. Daughter's asleep with our cat and I'm enjoying my sweet solitude.


It's already the 20th of the month there, correct?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yup, not too long before the end of the year and then D day on Feb


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Thanks Mavash, I guess I was out of options
> 
> @Smallsteps
> 
> Well, I can't be vulnerable to EVERYONE and nor do I want my daughter to be as well -> if so, I may have problems swatting flies (young men) buzzing around her once she comes of age. I already have a problem with her being a little too affectionate with people (not from my side of the family) and in the past she was being kissy kissy with the boys at her school.


The true beauty of being at peace with yourself is you will no longer be tempted to waste your precious emotional energy on things and people that aren't important to you.

The almost humorous side-effect of that is when you don't waste emotional energy on them, you feel better, speak better, use your humor, and you'll find those people you aren't wasting your time on start liking you a whole lot more.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well there is one person who I'll never forgive -> MIL. But she's been mostly out of my life so she doesn't even cross my thought no more, but my hostility is out of principle. I use her as an example, I destroyed her reputation by proving her lies false, and I enjoy it.

The only problem being that my daughter has picked up on that and doesn't listen to her grandmother and really acted up with her when STBX and I first seperated. The benefit though is that MIL has no poison to give my daughter, and has zero influence on her which is good. Some people need to be kept out.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok guys, STBX is deliberately trying to avoid me, did I scare her that bad? She just came in, took my daughter, fled. Then came back, dropped my daughter, and fled. Just hi/bye...

It's awkward now, great! I'm just observing in the meantime, should I stay on the sidelines forever and amuse myself or do something eventually?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Ok guys, STBX is deliberately trying to avoid me, did I scare her that bad? She just came in, took my daughter, fled. Then came back, dropped my daughter, and fled. Just hi/bye...
> 
> It's awkward now, great! I'm just observing in the meantime, should I stay on the sidelines forever and amuse myself or do something eventually?


It's still early. You pretty much dropped a bomb on her. Give her another day or so and then see if she's ready to talk. 

Just tell her you wanted to give her some room so she could think about what you said. Then ask her if she's thought about it. What are her feelings about what you told her? 

Say it nicely, and don't be pushy or demanding. Just try to open a conversation with her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I can always give it a week I guess...

EDIT: I've been playing around with my emotions lately, noticed that if I say to myself along the theme of negativity, with thoughts such as "never loving again", "never moving on", "fked for life", "its all over", "this is my reality"... my heart feels like its sinking, and my lower chest feels chill. Of course I can shut it off via more positive thoughts.

But what is this feeling?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I can always give it a week I guess...
> 
> EDIT: I've been playing around with my emotions lately, noticed that if I say to myself along the theme of negativity, with thoughts such as "never loving again", "never moving on", "fked for life", "its all over", "this is my reality"... my heart feels like its sinking, and my lower chest feels chill. Of course I can shut it off via more positive thoughts.
> 
> But what is this feeling?


It's merely a part of your personality.

When we're honest with ourselves, we're all our own harshest critics.

Learning to turn that off and to forgive yourself is part of the process.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

smallsteps said:


> It's still early. You pretty much dropped a bomb on her. Give her another day or so and then see if she's ready to talk.
> 
> Just tell her you wanted to give her some room so she could think about what you said. Then ask her if she's thought about it. What are her feelings about what you told her?
> 
> Say it nicely, and don't be pushy or demanding. Just try to open a conversation with her.


Do not chase.

She knows where you stand.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I can always give it a week I guess...
> 
> EDIT: I've been playing around with my emotions lately, noticed that if I say to myself along the theme of negativity, with thoughts such as "never loving again", "never moving on", "fked for life", "its all over", "this is my reality"... my heart feels like its sinking, and my lower chest feels chill. Of course I can shut it off via more positive thoughts.
> 
> But what is this feeling?


The brain is an amazing organ. If you learn about yourself and how to control your emotions through your thought process you will be so much better off. It seems that is what you are starting to do.

When you think of these negative feelings you feel sad and depressed. Like everything is hopeless. If you continue that train of thought it could lead you into a devastating spiral which will leave you angry, hopeless, sad and/or defensive.

Once you switched your thinking to a more positive track, you shut those dark feelings off. 

Did you continue thinking more positive thoughts and see where your mood went or once you switched off the negative feelings did you stop?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I'm at her mercy now, and I don't like it. Not very easy to have positive thinking considering I just put my head on the chopping block but meh, I can't really go back now, only forward. If anything I'd probably made her see how patheticly indecisive I am.

Oh well


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I'm at her mercy now, and I don't like it. Not very easy to have positive thinking considering I just put my head on the chopping block but meh, I can't really go back now, only forward. If anything I'd probably made her see how patheticly indecisive I am.
> 
> Oh well


Ok, now we're getting down to the "parts" of you inside that were at the root of pushing her away all these years.

Hurt her before she hurts you....

Helluva way to live, ain't it?

I would think she's merely waiting for the other shoe to drop.

She doesn't do what you want, and you "do something" to push her away.

What if you don't?

Is it possible to minister to yourself?

(It's what the rest of us do... when they don't do what we want)


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

True, I considered it "pre-emptive strikes", and it was made worse when dealing with her silent treatments. It would be easier to deal with if things weren't so awkward, like if she needs time, ok sure, but when she doesn't tell me crap and forces me to endure the silence it drives my head in.

Now I did drop a bomb on her so I can contain myself thus far, just sucks to have to deal with that's all. If I can break the silence in a positive way though... well, what can I do really?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> True, I considered it "pre-emptive strikes", and it was made worse when dealing with her silent treatments. It would be easier to deal with if things weren't so awkward, like if she needs time, ok sure, but when she doesn't tell me crap and forces me to endure the silence it drives my head in.
> 
> Now I did drop a bomb on her so I can contain myself thus far, just sucks to have to deal with that's all. If I can break the silence in a positive way though... well, what can I do really?


Look I can't stand silence either, drives me crazy and gives me anxiety, I get it. Thing is you need to deal with her silence, you need to try to stick it out. Give her time, its the best thing you can do right now.

If you see her, be pleasant and smile. Be patient. You gave her a lot to think about. She had prepared herself for a divorce because you said you didn't love her. Now you changed that, she needs time to process that.

Sooner or later she will respond. You need to wait to see what she says. Just keep watching her actions.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Aye... well I reckon I should be fine, just... need to let it out my frustration at the silence I guess.

If there's one thing I hate more than her past demands it's her silent treatments!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Aye... well I reckon I should be fine, just... need to let it out my frustration at the silence I guess.
> 
> If there's one thing I hate more than her past demands it's her silent treatments!


Can't blame you. It's amazing the things that happened during your marriage that can trigger you.

I had to ask mine a question this weekend and I got "I'll explain later" That phrase filled me with anger and anxiety. He used to tell me that when he needed time to make up a lie.

Just keep being patient. You know, its good you let it out here and not let it build up. Saying it here also gives you the chance to work on how to change and cope with triggers like this.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok... well, I will see her again no choice next weekend, so I say something then? Or just play it cool and wait for her to break the awkwardness?

As for deep feelings well... despite her issues she's a hard woman to walk away from. She's loyal, a solid homemaker, and a good mother - without her you can bet my daughter would be spoiled. I'm not a very good dad in that regard. I do all the spoiling and she does all the disciplining, but my daughter loves her just as much.

She was very pivotal in my life especially early on. We were really close once, shared everything and anything. I guess she felt that way too as when I rejected her she did ask how I could forget everything that we had together...

*sigh* I've never forgotten.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell she must really hate me now, I don't really blame her for accusing me of toying with her emotions, I'm hot then I'm cold... like the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_FreDrOFd0


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RD-

Give her time. Let her process what you've told her. Remember, patience with this.

By next weekend she may have something to say.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Think I'm losing my mind

It's much easier to have just given up


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

No it's not, at least not in the long run. If you gave up you would have never forgiven yourself.

Now no matter what the outcome, you know you tried. I'm sure you can live with that much more than you can live with knowing you didn't try and just let her go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Living an authentic life isn't easy.

But wouldn't you rather choose that than live with regret and the what if's?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm feeling better today for some reason, guess I was just in a bad way for a while. Guess its best if I try not to think about her in the meantime.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I'm feeling better today for some reason


Don't question the good feelings.

EMBRACE IT!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I merely woke up on the right side of the bed this time it seems heh


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I'm feeling better today for some reason, guess I was just in a bad way for a while. Guess its best if I try not to think about her in the meantime.


Good idea. Just carry on as usual. You've done the right thing, be satisfied with that. Be happy with yourself


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I do hope you two reconcile. I recognized your desire for her in several other of your posts prior to reading this. Thanks for sharing.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

?! It's THAT obvious? =/

What? :scratchhead:


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> ?! It's THAT obvious? =/
> 
> What? :scratchhead:


Yup. You wear your heart on your keyboard I guess


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

=/

What other posts?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> =/
> 
> What other posts?


That thread about loving your partner for their looks vs personality. You had made a comment about how you should've played that song I posted an that maybe it was you all along. 

Also you seemed to brag about your wife in many posts. How she was a good mother, wife, cook etc... Then in the next paragraph you would sound defeated. You would always make a comment like "I guess it was meant to be". That comment rings insecurity. I could sense you were unsure about your desire to let her go.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

>.<


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Love's a b-tch


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Love's a b-tch


Tell me about it


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Midweek and still nothing 

Oh well, 3 more days to go before we have no choice but to run into each other. It'll be awkward... shouldn't I send a txt at least? Bah nevermind, guess I'll wait it out.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Midweek and still nothing
> 
> Oh well, 3 more days to go before we have no choice but to run into each other. It'll be awkward... shouldn't I send a txt at least? Bah nevermind, guess I'll wait it out.


Wait it out man, a text is pressure. Pressure is the enemy.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Wait it out. You've come this far, wait until you see her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Patience is one thing, but this silence is deafening!

But meh, not too long to go. I would be really p-ssed if she avoids me this weekend though! If so, I'm going to assume the worst and harden back up. If you need time, tell me! But this silence... ARGH


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Patience is one thing, but this silence is deafening!
> 
> But meh, not too long to go. I would be really p-ssed if she avoids me this weekend though! If so, I'm going to assume the worst and harden back up. If you need time, tell me! But this silence... ARGH


Has it occurred to you that she realises what this silence is doing to you?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yup, she knows it drives me nuts. So either she's fitness testing or she's revenging on me or she's somehow STILL clueless what her ST is doing to me... BAH :slap:

Perhaps its the first two, I'm getting annoyed


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Yup, she knows it drives me nuts. So either she's fitness testing or she's revenging on me or she's somehow STILL clueless what her ST is doing to me... BAH :slap:
> 
> Perhaps its the first two, I'm getting annoyed


Just try to ride it out if you want to R .


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, if the current bushfires get worse though I'll have to call her. But it looks like it's being contained at least in our area, spreading in the far west though.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

She may be testing you. She's waiting to see if old RD is going to show up.

If you haven't shown patience in the past then that's exactly what's going on.

When you see her this weekend be pleasant and smile. Ask her how she's doing.
Show her the old silent treatment will not get to you.
Take the high road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

So the wildfires I keep hearing about on the news are out your way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Show her the old silent treatment will not get to you.


Wouldn't that just encourage her to do it more?



> So the wildfires I keep hearing about on the news are out your way?


Mostly yes other then the massive cloud of smoke and orange days and sad stories from customers it's fine. Dangerously close though as one of the smaller fires started 20 minutes away. The huge firestorm is far west up in the mountain areas. 

They say 'we've got this, but stay alert' one day, then say 'danger! If you can move out, move now or we may move you out!', and then the next day say again 'downgrading our emergency status', and then the next day 'fires still uncontained' -> apparently the winds are making the spread unpredictable.

Our/her home is on the border suburbs but is quite safe (for now) hence all the info centers/shelters in the area. But meh, unless she's gone on a firefighting trip she and my daughter are in no danger at the moment.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Yup, she knows it drives me nuts. So either she's fitness testing or she's revenging on me or she's somehow STILL clueless what her ST is doing to me... BAH :slap:
> 
> Perhaps its the first two, I'm getting annoyed


How is getting annoyed helpful to you?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Yup, she knows it drives me nuts. So either she's fitness testing or she's revenging on me or she's somehow STILL clueless what her ST is doing to me... BAH :slap:
> 
> Perhaps its the first two, I'm getting annoyed


Dig deep and find out why you feel annoyed.

Analyze and observe the feeling.

Then realize it will pass.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Random Dude,

Just read your thread this morning.

Let me give you my two observations.

Yes, it's obvious you still love STBXW.

You asked TracyisHere which posts indicated this. The answer is all of them.

The other observation is that your biggest hurdle, by far, is your fear.

You loathe your fear. You've been trying to escape it and deny it your whole life.

Fear is the source of your insecurities and your indecisiveness. 

It stands in the way of your self-awareness. It's preventing introspection.

Your favorite word is "meh". You say it every time you try to gain insight into something and you worry that what you may find might scare you. So you give the dismissive "meh" and excuse yourself from looking at the reality.

Imagine how different your life could be if you learned to embrace fear.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Ceegee said:


> Random Dude,
> 
> Just read your thread this morning.
> 
> ...


No way to say this better.

RD has run everytime in the past.

This time he's holding firm.

I wanted to encourage him which is why I weighed back in.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Conrad said:


> No way to say this better.
> 
> RD has run everytime in the past.
> 
> ...


Fear is pulling him in two different directions.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> Random Dude,
> 
> Just read your thread this morning.
> 
> ...


Very insightful:iagree:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Ceegee said:


> Fear is pulling him in two different directions.


Fear likely motivates 80+ percent of human behavior.

The "precipice" for so many of us is when fears collide.

We then must stop running and decide.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Wouldn't that just encourage her to do it more?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well glad to hear they aren't in danger right now. Hopefully they can get it under control soon. I just feel terrible for all the wildlife out there. We just had a similar situation go on in California here.

How is your not reacting to her silence going to encourage her to do it more? If anything once she sees its not getting a reaction from you she'll stop.

Did you ever notice when a child throws a temper tantrum if you give into it and coddle,confront or engage the child the tantrum escalates and will just happen again? 

But if you ignore it, if you don't give it the attention or response the child is looking for, it stops and the child becomes reasonable to deal with.

Your wife is throwing a "silent" tantrum.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well if she is testing me then fine, I'll put up with it, but if we R I don't want this ST to become a habit. Theres a saying "forgive one insult and you encourage the commission of many", this ST is insulting and disrespectful, not to mention it keeps me hanging.

As for mehing, perhaps, but other times I genuinely just stopped giving a crap. As for fear, I fear disappointment, I fear being made into a fool, I was a fool in my youth and made a promise to myself that night when I was abandoned to never be so naive and stupid again. So I hardened up, sucked it up, moved on no matter how much it hurts. I fear breaking that promise to myself more than I fear whatever she may do.

I just hope this time I'm making the right decision by hanging in for my wife.


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

Silence always says "something."

I hope for the best for you RandomDude.

If for some horrible reason you do not reconcile, then I hope you will see you attempted honesty with her and respected her response. I also pray life gives you a break and some joy and I hope she shows your reciprocal respect.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well if she breaks my heart I'll be happy either way because then I'll no longer be plagued by indecision and move on easier. However I'm glad that you guys made me see that I have to be vulnerable to resolve this, otherwise I would be stuck forever.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh and you aren't hanging.

That's only your perception.


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well if she breaks my heart I'll be happy either way because then I'll no longer be plagued by indecision and move on easier. However I'm glad that you guys made me see that I have to be vulnerable to resolve this, otherwise I would be stuck forever.


Exactly. You are on your way to moving on! 

Bravery is doing things in the presence of fear. You did a brave thing and know you will know.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> Oh and you aren't hanging.
> 
> That's only your perception.


Really? How so? :scratchhead:



> Exactly. You are on your way to moving on!
> 
> Bravery is doing things in the presence of fear. You did a brave thing and know you will know.


I just hope I won't live to regret it... oh what am I saying... of course I wont :slap:

As you said, I'm on my way to moving on


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> Oh and you aren't hanging.
> 
> That's only your perception.


Really? How so? :scratchhead:



> Exactly. You are on your way to moving on!
> 
> Bravery is doing things in the presence of fear. You did a brave thing and know you will know.


I just hope I won't live to regret it... oh what am I saying... of course I wont :slap:

As you said, I'm on my way to moving on, thanks for this


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Just because you told her how you feel and are living an authentic life doesn't mean you sit and wait unless it's something you choose to do.

The only person you have control over is you.

Either she comes around or she doesn't.

Until then get back to your regularly scheduled life having peace knowing you tried.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah, guess so. Thanks Mavash.

*sigh* Just wish she hurries up and breaks my heart already! Bah!

Doesn't help that things are quite cozy at work until November, maybe I should join the bushfire fight or something but looks like it's dying down so no playing hero for me!


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Yeah, guess so. Thanks Mavash.
> 
> *sigh* Just wish she hurries up and breaks my heart already! Bah!
> 
> Doesn't help that things are quite cozy at work until November, maybe I should join the bushfire fight or something but looks like it's dying down so no playing hero for me!


Too bad you couldn't save the damsel in distress....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lol

Bonnie Tyler - Holding Out For A Hero (Official Music Video) - YouTube



But meh, both of them were never in any real danger throughout the fires.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Yeah, guess so. Thanks Mavash.
> 
> *sigh* Just wish she hurries up and breaks my heart already! Bah!


Actually she already has. And it wasn't with this conversation.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Aye even though it was 8 months ago hence this silence is killing me

I meant what I said by putting my head under the chopping block


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Aye even though it was 8 months ago hence this silence is killing me
> 
> I meant what I said by putting my head under the chopping block


Just keep being patient. Stop thinking about everything bad that could happen. Go into this with no expectations, just take things as they come.

Try not to focus on her silence, refocus onto something else, keep busy.

You've come so far, don't go back now.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

If anything this silence is making me wonder now why I'm even doing all this. What I even see in her that makes me still have feelings for her. All the issues we had, some that can never be resolved but just have to be 'put up with'. Others can be though with alot of hard work if we even R.

But don't worry, I'm staying the course... for now


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Sit with the silence.

It won't kill you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> If anything this silence is making me wonder now why I'm even doing all this. What I even see in her that makes me still have feelings for her. All the issues we had, some that can never be resolved but just have to be 'put up with'. Others can be though with alot of hard work if we even R.
> 
> But don't worry, I'm staying the course... for now


Your 12 year old feeling like he's going to get hurt again?

Big Brother wanting to step in and take action to protect him?


----------



## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> If anything this silence is making me wonder now why I'm even doing all this. What I even see in her that makes me still have feelings for her. All the issues we had, some that can never be resolved but just have to be 'put up with'. Others can be though with alot of hard work if we even R.
> 
> But don't worry, I'm staying the course... for now


You're using this time wisely. You're reflecting on things that were wrong in your marriage. What will need to be worked on if the two of you decide on R.

In the meantime, realize the only person you can control are you and your actions.

So the question is, while you are analyzing your marriage and the issues it has, what role did you play? What were the things you did in the marriage that contributed to the break down?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I've analysed so much for the last 8 months, I think I would be overanalysing everything if I do it anymore lol

Oh well, I'll see her tomorrow anyways.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I've analysed so much for the last 8 months, I think I would be overanalysing everything if I do it anymore lol
> 
> Oh well, I'll see her tomorrow anyways.


See, you made it to the weekend.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And she'll probably avoid me all weekend too lol

Such is life!

If she insists on the silence though then I will have to assume the worst.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> And she'll probably avoid me all weekend too lol
> 
> Such is life!
> 
> If she insists on the silence though then I will have to assume the worst.


Que sera sera. Lol.

Just stay calm and observe. No expectations, just see what happens.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Todays the day ladies and gents where we are forced to see each other's faces!

Who bets she'll ignore me and keep up the ST? Raise your hand
*raises hand*


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Todays the day ladies and gents where we are forced to see each other's faces!
> 
> Who bets she'll ignore me and keep up the ST? Raise your hand
> *raises hand*


Sending positive thoughts your way


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Nah, it's better to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised then to assume the best and be horribly disappointed


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Nah, it's better to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised then to assume the best and be horribly disappointed


Why worry about something that isn't real? Just go with the flow. How you feel has no impact on how she will respond. Why not be happy?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cause I don't want to be disappointed by expecting something that may not happen. Oh well, at least I get to take my daughter out today.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Maintaining vulnerability at the last minute seems to be a challenge, every fibre of my being just wants to end it asap, but that will just confuse her AGAIN. At least when I rejected her I held the power, now I'm at her mercy... pffft.

Now ok sure, relationships shouldn't be a power struggle, one thing we fked up on. But another thread reminded me why I we should just end it anyway, she's not even my fking type and I AM sick of being in an IR relationship. Yet I've come this far trying to reconcile because you guys helped me realise that I still have feelings for her.

Perhaps I do, but who the fk cares. My daughter is coping and I can survive any emotional BS. What the fk have I gotten myself into? To tell you the truth, I'm hoping she tells me to F off, that's a positive outcome for me. BAH


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Maintaining vulnerability at the last minute seems to be a challenge, every fibre of my being just wants to end it asap, but that will just confuse her AGAIN. At least when I rejected her I held the power, now I'm at her mercy... pffft.
> 
> Now ok sure, relationships shouldn't be a power struggle, one thing we fked up on. But another thread reminded me why I we should just end it anyway, she's not even my fking type and I AM sick of being in an IR relationship. Yet I've come this far trying to reconcile because you guys helped me realise that I still have feelings for her.
> 
> Perhaps I do, but who the fk cares. My daughter is coping and I can survive any emotional BS. What the fk have I gotten myself into? To tell you the truth, I'm hoping she tells me to F off, that's a positive outcome for me. BAH


Don't give in to Big Brother.

He's a protector part... and has harmed you way more than you know.

Stay the course.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm trying but I'm just seeing a whole lot of BS coming back if we do reconcile! I left it all behind for 8 months and now I'm trying to get back into it? Putting the sexual issues aside this was my one chance to just cut loose and go find someone who I can be proud of, not someone I'm ashamed of having.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFKKKKKKKK MY LIFE

*sigh*
Fine, I'll stay the course... for now
Not like I could ever move on anyway, unless she tells me to F off. I can't end it unless she wishes the same. Bah


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

God damn I really think up negative sh-t don't I? Excuses to harden up...

*sigh*

But what if we just weren't meant to be in the first place, there's a reason why relationships like STBX and I don't last long, and I'm fking living it. Sure we have alot in common but all these fking issues... mine, hers... is love worth fighting for? Really?

When it comes with all this stupid baggage?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ah fk it, nothing I can do now, will be seeing her again soon. I'll try to keep 'big brother' in check.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> I'm trying but I'm just seeing a whole lot of BS coming back if we do reconcile! I left it all behind for 8 months and now I'm trying to get back into it? Putting the sexual issues aside this was my one chance to just cut loose and go find someone who I can be proud of, not someone I'm ashamed of having.
> 
> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFKKKKKKKK MY LIFE
> 
> ...


One step at a time.

Don't rush it.

It's a process.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok guys, silence has been broken, but meh

I asked her how she was... and she replied that she doesn't know what to do with me. When I asked her what she meant she mentioned that she was sick of me playing games, going back and forth, that she thought I've changed and what not. She said that she can't handle me putting her through emotional rollercoasters and she came forward to reconcile because she thought that I had changed based on what she heard from our 'friend'.

Yes, the same 'friend' that I dated during seperation that I thought I could get away with as long as I kept it low key. I was letting her vent up to that point because I got mad I had a snitch on the loose, I sent my daughter to her room. Apparently since our mutual 'friend' and I broke up she's gone to reconcile with my STBX and told her everything and that I still miss her/think about her and all that crap. I'm pretty p-ssed about that but thankfully I didn't explode too much.

Still, she said that she can't trust what I said and if I was going to turn cold on her again. I told her that I do acknowledge that I've made alot of mistakes in the past and I wasn't going to say anything about my feelings and to let her go because I knew this would happen. I asked her if she would have preferred it if I said nothing at all and she didn't reply at first. She just went back to venting about how I break her heart then get back together with her only to break it again, she said she can't do it anymore.

I asked her if she was even sincere at all when she came forward and she said she was. She calmed down abit then and said that she knows she hasn't been a good wife either but if things aren't going to change and if we were going to keep going back and forth then it's better we divorce. I bit my tongue, I wasn't going to say anything because I sure as hell felt like ending it there and then but that will just be proving her accusations true.

I just told her that I'm working through my issues and that when I told her how I felt I meant it and that I don't want her to go through anymore emotional rollercoasters but it's apparent that I should have just let her go and I shouldn't have said anything. She let it slip "yeah, you shouldn't have". That really cut, so I told her that if that's the way she feels then forget I said anything. She said she's sorry and I replied 'no you're not', and she said she didn't mean it like that and that she's just really mad at me right now. I told her that I don't expect her to trust anything I say to her and if she's already made her decision to divorce then come right out and say it.

She just looked away, grabbed her things and left. So back to silent treatment I guess. Daughter's mood is ruined too. Meh, I'm just going to harden the fk up. This is just pointless.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, if by next week she's still pissed but won't make a decision then fine, I'll make it for her. No more rollercoaster, isn't that what she wants? I'll nuke the whole fking ride, I've said my piece and this is her reaction. I don't blame her but if that's the way she feels then I'm fking done with her. Forget R, forget being friends, she doesn't even want to be friends anyway. 

Forget co-parenting, I'm taking my daughter out for horse riding to hell with what she says and I'm going to start pulling her away from church. I never wanted her to share in mum's fking religion anyway.


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Meh, if by next week she's still pissed but won't make a decision then fine, I'll make it for her. No more rollercoaster, isn't that what she wants? I'll nuke the whole fking ride, I've said my piece and this is her reaction. I don't blame her but if that's the way she feels then I'm fking done with her. Forget R, forget being friends, she doesn't even want to be friends anyway.
> 
> Forget co-parenting, I'm taking my daughter out for horse riding to hell with what she says and I'm going to start pulling her away from church. I never wanted her to share in mum's fking religion anyway.


I imagine she must've felt similar when she tried to reconcile...


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Meh, if by next week she's still pissed but won't make a decision then fine, I'll make it for her. No more rollercoaster, isn't that what she wants? I'll nuke the whole fking ride, I've said my piece and this is her reaction. I don't blame her but if that's the way she feels then I'm fking done with her. Forget R, forget being friends, she doesn't even want to be friends anyway.
> 
> Forget co-parenting, I'm taking my daughter out for horse riding to hell with what she says and I'm going to start pulling her away from church. I never wanted her to share in mum's fking religion anyway.


Shoot, that didn't take long.

Sounds like the old days.

Hurt her before she hurts you... always "works"


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

For those who have had posts deleted from the last couple of pages......

No more flirting.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> For those who have had posts deleted from the last couple of pages......
> 
> No more flirting.


That was flirting? O.O



tracyishere said:


> I imagine she must've felt similar when she tried to reconcile...


Who knows what she must have felt. The difference is -> I didn't give her the ST.



Conrad said:


> Shoot, that didn't take long.
> 
> Sounds like the old days.
> 
> Hurt her before she hurts you... always "works"


What the hell am I supposed to do at this point?
I kept my head on the chopping block as long as I could but she wouldn't even have the decency to drop the blade. No, she just ups and leaves and continues the silent treatment she's given me all week.

I don't have superhuman patience. Like alright sure, I can understand why she's pissed, and hey she told me I shouldn't have said anything, wasn't what she wanted to hear now was it? So ok, what you make of that? She wanted to F off instead I went all lovey dovey on her... bleh

I feel like throwing up at myself now. Probably her churchie beliefs to be against divorce or whatever so she wants me to deal the blow myself. Pffft, well if she's that weak then why not? Isn't that what she wants?


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> That was flirting? O.O
> 
> 
> Who knows what she must have felt. The difference is -> I didn't give her the ST.
> ...


Mr. Flirt, I don't think you should ever regret being honest with yourself and sharing how you feel. If you hadn't have stuck your neck out you would have never known the answer. At least this way you can move forward with a clear conscience that you have done everything you can to salvage your marriage. Not many people can say that. Hold your head high.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> That was flirting? O.O
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it was going to be different this time.

Go ahead and blow things up on your own.

Show her it's the same.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I didn't even get an answer.

*sigh* Ruined day, not in the mood for anything, daughter's really quiet too, need to cheer her up somehow.



> I thought it was going to be different this time.
> 
> Go ahead and blow things up on your own.
> 
> Show her it's the same.


What you think I should do exactly?
What can I do at this point?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell I'm so mad right now I wish this was a weekday so I could yell and punch sh-t in but NOOO, just has to be the weekend doesn't it with my daughter.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ALRIGHT FINE

I won't nuke it. But if she wants to play silent then FINE, two can play that game. I'm just not going to give a sh-t, we're divorcing in Feb anyways, I'll deal with her then.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> I didn't even get an answer.
> 
> *sigh* Ruined day, not in the mood for anything, daughter's really quiet too, need to cheer her up somehow.
> 
> ...


Ask the parts of you that are upset to take a step back.

There are larger forces at work here.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. 

When you let little brother out she loves you. 

When it gets hairy, big brother comes out and ruins everything. 

What are you so afraid of?


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

RandomDude. She was totally honest and you hurt her. Why?

You contradicted yourself with her. You did hurt her in anticipation of your own hurt. Now you ARE hurt as well.

meh.

You hurt her, you hurt yourself, there is a proverb that says it better in Arabic.

Don't hurt yourself anymore RandomDude. Love yourself.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Ask the parts of you that are upset to take a step back.
> 
> There are larger forces at work here.


What pissed me off?

1) That snitch of a 'friend', if she was a guy I would be burying his face on the floor right now. Bah!
2) D word kills even the thought of reconciliation
3) Silent treatment - AGAIN
4) Her telling me that I should have kept my mouth shut

Take a step back? How exactly? I can't deny how I'm feeling about all of this.



> Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating.
> 
> When you let little brother out she loves you.
> 
> ...


What love? From looks of things it's gone and she's pissed that I'm holding onto her and thinks that I'm playing emo-coaster. She even admitted herself that she felt that I shouldn't have told her sh-t.

"Didn't mean it that way" my fking ass, she just wants to keeps her hands clean. So hey, she wants to cut loose, but doesn't seem to have the decency to do it herself even after I put my head on the chopping block so she gives me STs instead.

Anyways I haven't done anything yet, I'm just contemplating detonating the nuke.



> RandomDude. She was totally honest and you hurt her. Why?
> 
> You contradicted yourself with her. You did hurt her in anticipation of your own hurt. Now you ARE hurt as well.
> 
> ...


How did I hurt her exactly? This?



> I told her that I don't expect her to trust anything I say to her and if she's already made her decision to divorce then come right out and say it.


That was what she was getting at anyway, I just told her to pull the damn trigger already instead of keeping me hanging.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh*

Fk it, I'm just not relationship or marriage material


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Fk it, I'm just not relationship or marriage material


Don't even go there. Just don't.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

/end vent

Now what?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's almost like you have to align the stars to even make a marriage work I don't know how you guys do it.

I'm feeling really stupid right about now, I did this to stop the indecision, as putting myself on the chopping block and having her drop the blade would end things and I could move on - or we could reconcile and whatever... bleh.

Instead, I get THIS! *sigh* 
No ending, no closure, just more silent treatment.


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> It's almost like you have to align the stars to even make a marriage work I don't know how you guys do it.
> 
> I'm feeling really stupid right about now, I did this to stop the indecision, as putting myself on the chopping block and having her drop the blade would end things and I could move on - or we could reconcile and whatever... bleh.
> 
> ...


And you will get through it again...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh*

I'll see her again tomorrow anyways though it'll be just like last Sunday hi/bye, at least I didn't blow up in her face (much). Though ok fine, maybe my choice of words wasn't the best but hell I was holding ALOT in.

Hate it when she just ups and leaves.


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I'll see her again tomorrow anyways though it'll be just like last Sunday hi/bye, at least I didn't blow up in her face (much). Though ok fine, maybe my choice of words wasn't the best but hell I was holding ALOT in.
> 
> Hate it when she just ups and leaves.


You both like to fight for control IMO. And whoever loses gets to hold the resentment.


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

You said it yourself....



RandomDude said:


> I just hope I won't live to regret it... oh what am I saying... of course I wont :slap:
> 
> As you said, I'm on my way to moving on, thanks for this


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, doesn't matter now anyways, it's a dead marriage. She won't give me a straight answer but with what she has hinted today -> she's over it. I'll be polite, civil, and no I won't do anything stupid - I just needed to vent.

Despite FZing her I'm still in contact with 'laundry lady', and hell she's hotter than STBX ne ways. I just need to move on.


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Meh, doesn't matter now anyways, it's a dead marriage. She won't give me a straight answer but with what she has hinted today -> she's over it. I'll be polite, civil, and no I won't do anything stupid - I just needed to vent.
> 
> Despite FZing her I'm still in contact with 'laundry lady', and hell she's hotter than STBX ne ways. I just need to move on.


Humph, so disappointed in that attitude Mr. Flirt. You haven't lost the battle yet and your ready to surrender. Get in there and win the war.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Meh, doesn't matter now anyways, it's a dead marriage. She won't give me a straight answer but with what she has hinted today -> she's over it. I'll be polite, civil, and no I won't do anything stupid - I just needed to vent.
> 
> Despite FZing her I'm still in contact with 'laundry lady', and hell she's hotter than STBX ne ways. I just need to move on.


One encounter that didn't go your way and the walls go up?

She needed to get out all that has been going through her head for this past week. Stop getting so defensive and step back a minute. 

Now that it's out there take a breather. See what happens in your next encounter. She got out what she wanted to say, now give things time to settle down.

Did you really think she was going to just forget everything and agree to reconcile right away? You need to give all this some time.

Go do something really fun with your daughter. Get your mind off of this for a while.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She's already out of the fight, she's given up, so why should I keep chasing after her? Especially when there is a perfectly healthy younger, hotter, lady available who's even more my type at least physically. I don't need STBX I've never needed her, I've fking never needed anyone either.

I just need to get STBX out of my mind so I won't feel like throwing up whenever I'm with someone else. You still think there's even a chance? She's made her intentions clear, or do you disagree?


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

She said she "didn't know what to do with you." 

I believe this was honest. You say that about yourself! So she kept quiet and said nothing - what you are calling the silent treatment -to try and avoid a blow up like happened. Could THIS be possible RD?

You quickly put the walls up before the encounter was over. She is just as scared of getting hurt.

She did not say "No RandomDude, we are OVER get Out! Talk to my attorney."

Believe me RD, women says this.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

smallsteps said:


> One encounter that didn't go your way and the walls go up?
> 
> She needed to get out all that has been going through her head for this past week. Stop getting so defensive and step back a minute.
> 
> ...


*sigh*

Alright, I won't make any decisions now. Fine... I'm gone for the arvo. Going for a drive with my daughter, need to tell her everything is ok anyway.



2galsmom said:


> She said she "didn't know what to do with you."
> 
> I believe this was honest. You say that about yourself! So she kept quiet and said nothing - what you are calling the silent treatment -to try and avoid a blow up like happened. Could THIS be possible RD?
> 
> ...


*sigh* I don't know, I'll think about it more tonight when I'm less p-ssed.
Thanks though, for the replies... I really needed to vent


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Feeling better tonight... at least I didn't blow up in her face today. Probably blow up tomorrow instead!

I still don't get why I should persist considering she already told me that she'd rather I had said nothing at all, she pretty much spat on me. Hell at least when I rejected her attempt at R I stayed with her until I was convinced she was going to be ok and I did it without attacking her at all. So she got her revenge for what it's worth.

So much for being a nice guy. Meh

I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but I can't help but feel hardened at all this mess. I wonder if my marriage is just a waste of time, and waste of your time trying to help me. Maybe I should just shut up and let this marriage die.

I appreciate your help so far but I don't know how one is supposed to convince himself to be vulnerable despite all this crap? It's a reflex after you're hit to put your guard up. This whole "hit me again, hit me again" thing is nuts. It's not like people are throwing punches at me, STBX has a knife that cuts through me because of my stupid hard-to-be-rid-of feelings for her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ever had coincidences that seem to be too weird to be true? Spooky...

Just had one tonight, I watched the movie Brave tonight with my daughter, she loves her cartoons so hey I thought why not. Opening scenes were interesting, horse archery, both my daughter and I want her to begin lessons in riding but STBX always forbad it as she fears for our daughter's safety. In my anger today I almost decided I was going to train her despite STBX's wishes... funny...

Yet the story went on, and had a very touching and creepily relevant message. Mend the bond broken by pride, and the end scene made my daughter miss being a family. Heh... pride, that's what gets in the way. I harden up because I don't want to be made into a fool, vulnerability and pride don't go hand and hand with me.

Strange timing we decided to watch the movie after mum and dad had an early morning fight with different, yet relevant issues. Like some higher power out there is trying to tell me something. Mend the bond broken by pride...

*sigh* Probably just a coincidence, but meh... we'll see tomorrow. If anything that movie and my daughter missing us being a family softened me up a bit. Divine intervention or a coincidence... you decide, but I'm creeped the fk out!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RD-
Since this has happened to me I'm much more aware of coincidences, fate, divine intervention and really listening to that inner voice we all have. It has served me very well. When I pay attention to these things and are open to them my life goes well and I'm at peace.

When I ignore them and let my mind run away, it never turns out well.

The movie is right. You picked up on the message they had there for the kids. We're always learning RD. Keep your eyes open and be aware of it. I'm glad this movie got you thinking.

Be aware and be patient. This is not going to right itself overnight. Give it time.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Thinking about you. Hoping all goes well between you two today. Sending my positive thoughts your way


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well as I expected, she's ignoring me again, hi/bye. Meh

Oh well

I'm not as hardened up today, still I don't really see the point anymore. Things are just so awkward now.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well as I expected, she's ignoring me again, hi/bye. Meh
> 
> Oh well
> 
> I'm not as hardened up today, still I don't really see the point anymore. Things are just so awkward now.


You still have time....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't understand her intentions, what she's waiting for or if she is even waiting at all, or if this is just revenge. Meh

She obviously doesn't want to reconcile and seems to be over it already. All I've done it seems is make it harder for her and hence made it awkward between us.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> I don't understand her intentions, what she's waiting for or if she is even waiting at all, or if this is just revenge. Meh
> 
> She obviously doesn't want to reconcile and seems to be over it already. All I've done it seems is make it harder for her and hence made it awkward between us.


Sometimes, the most difficult thing to do in a relationship is "nothing"

I would suggest you do just that.

Show her this time is different.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Nothing else I can do but nothing really, guess I should stop trying to give a sh-t


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Nothing else I can do but nothing really, guess I should stop trying to give a sh-t


Just be still. Be indifferent. Let things happen for now, don't try to force anything and don't make any sudden decisions.

You have time, take advantage of it.

The quieter you are the more she will notice. She's waiting for your defensive side to show so she can have that huge blow out and say to herself "see I knew he didn't change"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Looks like it's going to be year-long celibacy then. Hoorah!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Looks like it's going to be year-long celibacy then. Hoorah!


You'll live. We all do lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I find it ironic that STBX seems to be coping with celibacy even better than me this year, she has only dated once, I've dated quite a few times this year. But maybe there's already an OM so that's why she's taking her time. Why can't she just tell me that? And let me move on?

Funny, I admitted to spying on her before which did hurt her, I simply doubted a sex addict like her could cope with me saying no, strange that I've always found nothing even after seperation. I still don't believe her, yet she's either really good at it or owns all the PI companies here in the city. I just don't get how she did it, kept her panties on with others, yet refuses to control herself with me.

If that is so, then it makes me sad to realise that all of this is ultimately my fault, and my failure to establish boundaries. 

But it's been some time since the spying, and she would be doing no wrong by it. Maybe she's getting rammed right now, but no, I'm not going to spy on her this time. It doesn't matter anymore. Find it strange that I can't even kiss a woman without feeling rotten, but can I trust that she feels the same? That she hasn't fked anyone else either? Heh

When I was hardened I didn't give a sh-t. Now I do... and the thought cuts me. And hey I'm in a prison now when it comes to sex, I'm trying to R, so I can't go fking around and think it won't affect my chances. She now holds all the power.

I've lost.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You're almost looking at it as a revenge tool. That is not what sex is supposed to be about.

The cosmic scorecard that Conrad talks about. No one is keeping score about who's sleeping with who. Which one of you has one up on the other.

Trust me though, now that you have gone to her and said what you have, if you do sleep with someone you will screw everything up.

Just be patient. If she agrees to R then you have a long road ahead. If not then you learn how to start over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Up until I rejected her attempt at R she seems to have kept her panties on. I wonder if her rather cold behaviour is also contributed by the possibility of an OM at the moment.

Still, she did come forward and tell me about an OM earlier on our seperation trying to be transparent with me, she's honest like that, though they apparently decided to just be friends... and if she still is honest... then if there is an OM, then she would have told me by now right? No! Really?

Maybe she just told me just to see how I would react, maybe she lied about not having sex with him, or maybe she's seeing him again now. The problem with vulnerability and accepting my feelings for her is the haunting thought of her being with someone else while we're in this state.

I guess I can trust her loyalty when we were married but now... meh. At the same time I'm being celibate holding out while she may not even be doing the same.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Up until I rejected her attempt at R she seems to have kept her panties on. I wonder if her rather cold behaviour is also contributed by the possibility of an OM at the moment.
> 
> Still, she did come forward and tell me about an OM earlier on our seperation trying to be transparent with me, she's honest like that, though they apparently decided to just be friends... and if she still is honest... then if there is an OM, then she would have told me by now right? No! Really?
> 
> ...


You are over thinking things Mr. Flirt. You have to busy yourself and avoid letting such thoughts buzz around in your mind. The reality is you don't know. So leave it at that. Stop making up scenarios that cause you stress, pain and anxiety. You don't know. Simple.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Or she may be working on her feelings about sex and love. It seems that her hypersexuality was about the relationship with you. Maybe she felt the only way to get you to love her was to have sex. Obviously she can control her sexual desire. It seems she may learn that she does not need to have sex to be assured that she is loved. 

Random no man has ever been there for her the way you have. No man has reassured that she had more to offer than looks and sex. Offer her that even if she decides not to take your offer. Love her steady and sure and stop changes from moment to moment. 

You are mirrors of each other. She needs the contant reassureence that she is loved and so do you. Yet you want her to control herself in ways that you cannot. You don't need moment to moment ressuence of her love. Love is not so fragile, it can take some pretty hard hits. That's why real love is sustained through the years. 

Be there for her and take a chance that you will have a steadfast partner. Show her that you love her and it is not a fickle love thy comes and goes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Guess nothing I can do now but hope

*sigh*


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

And wait. It's good practice. You have to be steadfast and persistent in every relationship. So what you are doing now is not for nothing. You need these relationship skills. 

No woman who has self respect and confidence will put up with a quick tempered and fickle man. Insecure women or ones with an agenda other than a close emotional connection will. That may be ok when you first start dating, if it should come to that. 

When you look to settle down again, you will want a woman of quality. You have to show the fine qualities you have to that woman. She has to be worth your trust and you have to be the same.

Keep going forward, don't stop now. Your wife sounds like a quality woman. And you have fine qualities. You hide them but they are there.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Maintaining persistence in a love/hate relationship can be tough, though it seems we've both had enough of our past dynamics. We've been civil since seperation (for the most part) but meh. We've driven each other up the wall with our fights, ironically we had a very intense sex life as a result. Bah!

Three Days Grace - I Hate Everything About You - YouTube

Quality? Me? lol meh


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## KnottedStomach (Sep 19, 2013)

RD, don't mean to butt in, but from your post it seems like a lot of the focus is on her. So my question is what do you want, besides R that is?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I just want this limbo to end, for good or ill.

Right now, I'm stuck. I just want my life to go forward.


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## KnottedStomach (Sep 19, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I just want this limbo to end, for good or ill.
> 
> Right now, I'm stuck. I just want my life to go forward.


I know what you mean, I was stuck and still feel stuck somewhat since my H and I still live in the same house. 

I have learned that it's important to focus on you. The things that make you happy, that fulfill you. Try to get back to the things that you enjoy, perhaps before things went bad with your W or before the marriage. You cannot control her actions or what she wants, you can only control what you want. Give her some space and work on you. I would stop focusing so much on her, I know easier said than done.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

KS has a point here RD. Start putting focus back on you. Improve yourself and as you do you'll be noticed.

There is nothing you can do to hurry your wife's decision or make her mind up for her.

Truth is as time passes there is a possibility you realize you want something different. Time has a funny way of clearing things up for us when we concentrate on ourselves instead of focusing on others.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> She's already out of the fight, she's given up, so why should I keep chasing after her? Especially when there is a perfectly healthy younger, hotter, lady available who's even more my type at least physically. I don't need STBX I've never needed her, I've fking never needed anyone either.
> 
> I just need to get STBX out of my mind so I won't feel like throwing up whenever I'm with someone else. You still think there's even a chance? She's made her intentions clear, or do you disagree?


Oh my goodness.. really RD....she HUNG on for you for sooooooo LONG...and you give up so easily...... You know what >> it's YOUR TURN to show how much she means TO YOU...in the face of some sweet resistance.... One thing in life is very true....when one wants something bad enough (though I realize you are still trying to figure this out).... the courageous go out on a limb and FIGHT FOR IT....make their intentions KNOWN...they even expect some battle ahead....they do it diligently...not giving up quickly......

Looking back...her tenaciousness in fighting for you, in your early years... should help hold your faith...those memories of how you talked about her, her strength.... maybe for once in her life, she needs to be convinced YOU have enough Pi$$ & vinegar FIGHT within you - to take her on...and win her back !!

Come on now...you put yourself out there... I loved that, you are on the right tract....all this BS about these better woman....really ?? Ha ha ha... you keep trying to convince your self of that one while washing your Ex from your heart.. and mind...




> *Catherine602 said*: When you look to settle down again, you will want a woman of quality. You have to show the fine qualities you have to that woman. She has to be worth your trust and you have to be the same.
> 
> Keep going forward, don't stop now. Your wife sounds like a quality woman. And you have fine qualities. You hide them but they are there.


 I like this...:smthumbup:



> *Random Dude said*: Maintaining persistence in a love/hate relationship can be tough, though it seems we've both had enough of our past dynamics. We've been civil since seperation (for the most part) but meh. We've driven each other up the wall with our fights, ironically we had a very intense sex life as a result. Bah!
> 
> Three Days Grace - I Hate Everything About You - YouTube


 Yeah..that's a funny song...I like that group. 

I went to church yesterday... you know me...the Heretic Deist here... I was moved by the sermon, almost to tears in certain parts of the message... about Joshua marching around the walls of Jericho over & over & over -because he had Faith... be believed ...(not trying to get religious on you) but trust me... it's not an easy walk when we are fighting for something or someone we love... who has lost hope over the years...one must carry the other...it's YOUR TURN RD...

Gotta share this...The Pastor called *a couple* up to the Alter after this sermon to demonstrate how marching around that wall (believing, not giving up...what can come from such Faith).....this couple actually DID divorce...and they were just REMARRIED again last week...this was a new church for me (our son plays guitar on the worship team, we went to see him)....

So don't give up... Love can be rebuilt ...from ashes, if you 2 can put aside your defenses... back & forth hurting each other...hope just might start shining through the clouds in the near future... 

I am sure that couple fought like hell too -they had 2 daughters... So there is a little "inspiration" for you.....keep marching around that Wall... till it comes down... if SHE is what you want ... that is.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, since seperation I have gone out and tried to enjoy my newfound freedom. It was easier, because at that time the doors were closed, walls were up and trenches were dug on both sides. Things were cool, decisions were made, though true, I have never fully gotten over her. When she decided to reopen the front by charging my lines, I shot her down... I was already set to move on and didn't trust that she had changed.

But her reaction haunted me, so I opened this thread, and now having charged back, and not only did she gun me down, but she leaves me injured on the field with my guts hanging out. Bah! So now I'm stuck in no man's land! I didn't do that to her, I was very straight forward, and hell I didn't leave her until she wanted to go. Instead she ups and leaves without giving me answers and that irritates me somewhat.

Though true, I made a rash decision when I wasn't in the right emotional state to do so. Guess she's smarter than me in this regard, though crueler. But I guess I can try to keep my mind off things, for now... thanks guys.

@SA

Well, apparently she had already given up on V-day back in Feb, and only decided to reconcile thanks to our little mutual 'friend' who I guess may have done us a favor but meh, I'm still pissed at her. We're a long way past our earlier years, and hurt each other alot. Back then we were a team, fighting for each other against the world, but since marriage it's mostly us fighting against each other.

And nah I wouldn't call you a heretic, if you're a heretic I'm the anti-christ lol. The walls of Jericho eh? Sonic boom! 








Personally I reckon Joshua undermined the walls via tunnels and collasped it on his signal to inspire his men that god is on his side. Religion inspires men to fight after all heh.

Thanks though SA for your encouragement, faith/hope isn't something I'm used to but it's all I have. I'd rather not have to divorce only to re-marry, that would be a pain. If we are to divorce - that's it, we're through.


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## Cheshire Cat (Jul 10, 2013)

Hello RD,

I have just caught up with your thread, I am in a very similar position myself and I can relate to you totally.

I am the impatient one and also the one who gives my husband silent treatments... So I know where you both are coming from lol..

I guess what I can say to you is what other vets have been telling you,, patience is deinitely the key here. That's what I struggle to keep within myself on a daily basis. But 8 months?? LOL You have just started!!

I have been doing this hot/cold, love/hate limbo/reconciliation emotional rolercoaster ride for much longer than you and it IS getting better. My husband and I have a long way to go and we are still separated but I see and feel things are slowly (very slowly) but steadily getting better.

I am my worst enemy,, my fear,, fear of getting hurt again, I always assume the very worst and tend to be negative and overanalyze everything... I have fallen into many situations where pain and frustration were so huge I just wante to end it all. I feel like ending it quite often.

Like everyone here knows it, fear is a hugely powerful force.. Although I understand that I need to not let it control me, it's so-o-o difficult and I always find myself letting it get the best of me. But I try to tell myself that my husband must feel the same, he's scared, too, he doesn't want to get hurt, either. Someone has to be the first one to start breaking down the walls..

Reconciliation is really a long and narrow road but I think the thought of saving my marriage/relationship and becoming happy again with a man I deep down know I still do love very much makes this crazy ride worth enduring.

Hang in there. It will get better. Give it time and work on your patience. It's easier said than done but I think it's the best and probably the only way for you (and me) for now.

Too, too early for you to give up!!

Praying for you!!!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Aye, 8 months, makes me abit of a baby =/

I'm just annoyed that I have to be celibate and loveless for longer tis all while I'm watching opportunities just pass me by.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I'm just annoyed that I have to be celibate and loveless for longer tis all while I'm watching opportunities just pass me by.


This is your choice.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well I can't exactly go out and pick up at the moment, I'm stuck =/


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Well I can't exactly go out and pick up at the moment, I'm stuck =/


And, your body is telling you to be still.


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## Cheshire Cat (Jul 10, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Aye, 8 months, makes me abit of a baby =/
> 
> I'm just annoyed that I have to be celibate and loveless for longer tis all while I'm watching opportunities just pass me by.


RD, even if you tried to grab those opportunities, none of them will work or make you happy as long as you are so far from being over your wife and have so many open issues that you can only work out with HER. You will not be able to truly move on.

Done that, been there. I know.

It may be a good idea though, to go on casual dates for fun and some ego boosts but I don't think you will get much at all if you are expecting anything real or meaningful out of it at this particular point in your life. 

But whatever it is, do the things that will make you feel good and take good care of yourself, it will be a long ride if you are serious about reconciling with your wife.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I did, and almost threw up  Hence a part of me wishes she's as direct as me by telling me to cut loose.

Instead I'm now in limbo thanks to the silent treatment
Single life is fun don't get me wrong, but it sucks without at least a girl on the side and I wouldn't consider my current 'friend' a girl on the side since I FZed her after that kiss. Disappointed her alot and I made her feel like sh-t.

If R isn't going to happen, I know I will regret my decision to FZ her forever. Bah


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I did, and almost threw up  Hence a part of me wishes she's as direct as me by telling me to cut loose.
> 
> Instead I'm now in limbo thanks to the silent treatment
> Single life is fun don't get me wrong, but it sucks without at least a girl on the side and I wouldn't consider my current 'friend' a girl on the side since I FZed her after that kiss. Disappointed her alot and I made her feel like sh-t.
> ...


You could always unfriendzone her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I can only do that if STBX drops the hammer, which she hasn't done - yet. Instead I'm collared without being collared


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I can only do that if STBX drops the hammer, which she hasn't done - yet. Instead I'm collared without being collared


I know. I'm merely pointing out that you do not have to friend zone her forever if you do not wish to. You seem to have this idea that it's all or nothing. There usually is always somewhere in between.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I doubt she'll be available for long, she's cool with my honesty and we're friends, and I still see her and make her smile when I go to do my laundry but thats it.

I doubt she'll be there for me next year, and if STBX cuts loose, then I would have lost a gorgeous date. Although sure she might be replaceable but I'm very picky.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I doubt she'll be available for long, she's cool with my honesty and we're friends, and I still see her and make her smile when I go to do my laundry but thats it.
> 
> I doubt she'll be there for me next year, and if STBX cuts loose, then I would have lost a gorgeous date. Although sure she might be replaceable but I'm very picky.


At least you know not to blow pubes in girls faces now!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ey? Nah I'm still going to do it to the next starer that I can't ignore


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I doubt she'll be available for long, she's cool with my honesty and we're friends, and I still see her and make her smile when I go to do my laundry but thats it.
> 
> I doubt she'll be there for me next year, and if STBX cuts loose, then I would have lost a gorgeous date. Although sure she might be replaceable but I'm very picky.


Seriously though. You are viewing things with your all or nothing eyes. There are plenty of fish in the sea of worthy women. You just have to use the right bait to catch one.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

tracyishere said:


> Seriously though. You are viewing things with your all or nothing eyes. There are plenty of fish in the sea of worthy women. You just have to use the right bait to catch one.


But you don't need to think about that right now. You are a knight in waiting  soon you'll either ride away with your wife into the sunset or you'll ride off to find a new princess. Be patient my friend.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

tracyishere said:


> Seriously though. You are viewing things with your all or nothing eyes. There are plenty of fish in the sea of worthy women. You just have to use the right bait to catch one.


No there's not, I have very specific tastes in women, which makes it difficult to find a match and I can only lower my standards so far. I've only met one this year that's my type, I don't count STBX's friend because I've already met her before.

I also know I won't be able to handle someone else's kids. I'm like that, which makes me cherish each opportunity like it's the last. And I can't do that not with STBX keeping me in limbo! Bah!



tracyishere said:


> But you don't need to think about that right now. You are a knight in waiting  soon you'll either ride away with your wife into the sunset or you'll ride off to find a new princess. Be patient my friend.


A knight? Nah, I boink knights with my warhammer. I'm a proud barbarian thank you very much!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Been thinking... would I be leading my date on if I continue dating her? Will I be considered giving her perhaps false hope? Like hell I don't even know if R is even possible at this point! And I know I can't do anything with STBX at the moment except wait.

Is it wrong of me to keep a semi-rebound? I've been honest with my date thus far, I don't like leading women on. If I break hearts I like to keep my hands clean. I don't want to get involved in a tug of war, as flattering as that may be. *sigh*


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Been thinking... would I be leading my date on if I continue dating her? Will I be considered giving her perhaps false hope? Like hell I don't even know if R is even possible at this point! And I know I can't do anything with STBX at the moment except wait.
> 
> Is it wrong of me to keep a semi-rebound? I've been honest with my date thus far, I don't like leading women on. If I break hearts I like to keep my hands clean. I don't want to get involved in a tug of war, as flattering as that may be. *sigh*


I don't think that'll help you in either case IMO


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Stuck in limbo then -.-

Bah! Part of me regrets FZing her + admitting feelings to STBX
Why I still love her I HAVE NO FKING IDEA... bah!


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Stuck in limbo then -.-
> 
> Bah! Part of me regrets FZing her + admitting feelings to STBX
> Why I still love her I HAVE NO FKING IDEA... bah!


I know exactly how you feel....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Worst case is that I end up with no one by February, after a year long celibacy, having lost two hot opportunities due to my foolish love for STBX. I don't think I would be able to forgive myself for that.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Worst case is that I end up with no one by February, after a year long celibacy, having lost two hot opportunities due to my foolish love for STBX. I don't think I would be able to forgive myself for that.


But you have also gained allot this year. You have learned allot about yourself and what your needs and wants are. You have bettered yourself and have become stronger and wiser. 

I think that that alone is worth something. More than anything anyone else could have provided. And yes... even more than sex


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Really? Maybe in the long run, but meh...

Considering my yearlong celibacy I'll probably blow in 20 seconds the minute I have sex! Wait, nah doubt that will happen as I got porn! Which means by next year I would be so used to the hand that I won't blow at all being inside someone anymore!

And I'm scarred from overuse by STBX! So I'm ruined for life! How is this not a loss?! Bah!


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Really? Maybe in the long run, but meh...
> 
> Considering my yearlong celibacy I'll probably blow in 20 seconds the minute I have sex! Wait, nah doubt that will happen as I got porn! Which means by next year I would be so used to the hand that I won't blow at all being inside someone anymore!
> 
> And I'm scarred from overuse by STBX! So I'm ruined for life! How is this not a loss?! Bah!


Mr. Flirt. You have a tendency to exaggerate. LMAO. Oh my!! I cannot help but laugh at that. Let me get some new underwear without pee in them and I'll get back to you with something more helpful....


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

There are many celibacy survivors in TAM. Just take a gander at the SIM section. Contact one of the men who have struggled and survived in a sexless marriage. They not only had to be celibate they had to face constant rejection. 

But they get through it and so will you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I tend to take the piss outta everything, just how I am 

Humor has maintained my sanity (almost) despite the 'trauma' I experienced as a child, which wasn't really that bad come to think of it because I had what many children didn't have -> freedom and independence at a very young age.



> There are many celibacy survivors in TAM. Just take a gander at the SIM section. Contact one of the men who have struggled and survived in a sexless marriage. They not only had to be celibate they had to face constant rejection.
> 
> But they get through it and so will you.


Problem is that I'm spoiled + I'm being tempted like hell


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I tend to take the piss outta everything, just how I am
> 
> Humor has maintained my sanity (almost) despite the 'trauma' I experienced as a child, which wasn't really that bad come to think of it because I had what many children didn't have -> freedom and independence at a very young age.
> 
> ...


I think humour is an excellent way to cope. (Some people think it's flirting). Keep doing it. It keeps the situation light. 

You may be tempted, that's healthy and normal. Wahoo! You are normal!! Deal with it. You are an adult who has the ability to make choices. Make them. You know the consequences


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

tracyishere said:


> I think humour is an excellent way to cope. (Some people think it's flirting). Keep doing it. It keeps the situation light.


Aye! *cough* Moderators *cough* 



> You may be tempted, that's healthy and normal. Wahoo! You are normal!! Deal with it. You are an adult who has the ability to make choices. Make them. You know the consequences


Yeah, and consequences for either decision. Looks like I'm back to indecisiveness, I just complicated everything even more lol

But at least no longer indecisive about my feelings for STBX! One step forward two steps back


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well guys, we're remaining seperated, STBX and I had a good long talk (finally) in regards to how things stand at the moment, she wants us to resume MC and see how things go but it seems she's still unsure of us and reconciliation. Apparently me rejecting her last time really cut into her and she already decided to give up and wasn't ready for me suddenly turning around and telling her how I feel. Joy joy...

Oh well, what now?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Find it rather ironic that not too long ago she was praying with my daughter for 'daddy to come home' and now daddy wants to come home but wife is like... 'errr no' -.-

Pffft who's playing hot and cold now?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RD she said she wants to continue marriage counseling and see where it goes, why is that a bad thing?

As far as I can see it her wishes seem to give the two of you hope. She's willing to try.

RD, when a woman shuts down like that you cannot just expect her to immediately switch back to being open. What she is saying it she's willing to try. She's willing if the two of you sit with a third party, in this case a MC and begin to discuss and try to fix your marriage.

I see nothing wrong with that. It's a healthy way of doing it.

You need time, patience,hope and hard work. 

You didn't really expect her to just forget everything, have you move back in and just pick up being a married couple again did you?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Of course not, just... wish things weren't so complicated thats all. To tell you the truth I'm abit of a mess right now. I've never seen her shut down like this, even through all our fights in the past, even if she hated me. It did hurt that she did give up but I don't blame her, I did tell her to, repeatedly, and in the end I feared she didn't change and was only playing me so I told her to F off...

I was secretly hoping I wasn't too late but it turns out that I was. Unrealistic expectations yes but I couldn't really handle the reality that she's done with me (not unless I convince myself that I'm done with her as well) Another reason I didn't want to confess to her how I felt, I made a rash decision and wanted to suffer the consequences of it and move on.

Instead... I'm now suffering the consequences of it and unable to move on. And she's dragged into all this. I don't really deserve this chance and I don't know what to do. I've reached rock bottom with her. I don't know if MC will fix things now that she's done with me.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell its hard to explain


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Long story short -> I'm just depressed because the love is gone.

How to reconcile from that? No love, no hate, no feeling... sure she didn't say it but I could tell. She's over it. She's done. I'm a book she closed then opened up again. I don't want her to do this out of pity or out of her morals or because of our daughter.

But that's all that's left. In truth I would probably be happier if she told me to F off


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Long story short -> I'm just depressed because the love is gone.
> 
> How to reconcile from that? No love, no hate, no feeling... sure she didn't say it but I could tell. She's over it. She's done. I'm a book she closed then opened up again. I don't want her to do this out of pity or out of her morals or because of our daughter.
> 
> But that's all that's left. In truth I would probably be happier if she told me to F off


You convey your emotions very well RD. Let your faith guide you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Faith isn't my strong point

I just don't know how to approach this...


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Long story short -> I'm just depressed because the love is gone.
> 
> How to reconcile from that? No love, no hate, no feeling... sure she didn't say it but I could tell. She's over it. She's done. I'm a book she closed then opened up again. I don't want her to do this out of pity or out of her morals or because of our daughter.
> 
> But that's all that's left. In truth I would probably be happier if she told me to F off


Start over from the very beginning. It's probably best. To try and pick up where you left off wouldn't work out.

The two of you, if you put 100% into MC, may come to find out things you never knew about each other.

I think you need to have an open mind at this point. Have no expectations and see where this takes the two of you.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

This always helps me....

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

smallsteps said:


> Start over from the very beginning. It's probably best. To try and pick up where you left off wouldn't work out.
> 
> The two of you, if you put 100% into MC, may come to find out things you never knew about each other.
> 
> I think you need to have an open mind at this point. Have no expectations and see where this takes the two of you.


As friends... *sigh*

Wonder if I can attempt to include "with benefits" into the equation but that'll probably mess things up bad



tracyishere said:


> This always helps me....
> 
> God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
> 
> ...


Well, I don't believe in her god lol
I don't pray to mine either


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

It's the message that's important.

*Accept the things You cannot change,
Change the things You can
Know the difference. *


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I dunno I just don't see the point if she's already given up, I don't want her to be doing this out of some sense of pity or owing to our daughter to give us a shot if she thinks she owes me something when she owes me nothing.

Quite frankly I'm insulted if she thinks that.

*sigh* Meh... I'm just lost in thought right now, don't mind me. I don't know her reasons for this (probably to drive me insane) but I guess nothing I can about it now but play along and see what MC turns up.

Unless you guys think there's something else I can do in the meantime?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I dunno I just don't see the point if she's already given up, I don't want her to be doing this out of some sense of pity or owing to our daughter to give us a shot if she thinks she owes me something when she owes me nothing.
> 
> Quite frankly I'm insulted if she thinks that.
> 
> ...


Your wife is a confident woman. I doubt she would ever just do something that affects her entire life because she feels she owes someone. She is doing this because SHE wants to.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I dunno, she is human after all

And I would be lying if I didn't say that my daughter's hopes do count as one of MY reasons to want to reconcile


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I dunno, she is human after all
> 
> And I would be lying if I didn't say that my daughter's hopes do count as one of MY reasons to want to reconcile


your daughter will indeed affect her decision, but it will not make her decision. Neither will you. She is able to make her own decision based on the information, facts, feelings that she interprets. 


I think it is a victory that she is still leaving the door open to the possibility to reconciliation. You won! Wahoo!:smthumbup:

It doesn't matter why. Celebrate! Enjoy! Take advantage and prove she made the right decision.

Be confident, sexy, strong, empathetic and caring.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not a victory yet, but she's opened a window I guess

Looks like it's bye bye to Ms Laundry though


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Not a victory yet, but she's opened a window I guess
> 
> Looks like it's bye bye to Ms Laundry though


I hope so. Now's your chance to be that better man you've worked hard to become.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

8 months of self-reflection and theory, and when it comes to application I almost failed straight away when confronted with my nemesis - silent treatment. Thankfully with the help of this forum I've kept my cool and kept my self-destructive mechanisms from sabotaging my attempts. But can I keep it up?

Meh, guess we can only see can't we? I hate to admit it but it seems my celibacy symptons are flaring up bad since today, as small a window as it is, it did give me something to hope for at least but as a result my brain malfunctioned and all I could think of was this:

http://www.funandmusic.biz/funny-animations-male-brain.gif


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Of course not, just... wish things weren't so complicated thats all. To tell you the truth I'm abit of a mess right now. I've never seen her shut down like this, even through all our fights in the past, even if she hated me. It did hurt that she did give up but I don't blame her, I did tell her to, repeatedly, and in the end I feared she didn't change and was only playing me so I told her to F off...


She didn't give up- if she had given up, she wouldn't consider marriage counseling with you.

It sounds to me like she had enough of being hurt by you. Really, you treated her incredibly shabbily. You've talked a lot about how she needs to change, and I am sure this is true. However, you can only control YOU, and YOU need to change, A LOT, in order to ever be a safe man for a woman.

BTW I was a lot like you, but a female version, in my 20s. I hurt a lot of people, and myself along the way. It took some therapy and a life-changing event for me to finally start to realize that I had an inner child who was running the show. My life got much better, in every way, once I was able to really integrate the Inner Child with the Adult.

An adult doesn't play the "push/pull" game, or in my case (and it looks like your case, too) the "acting out" game. I did the same behavior and was really shocked to see that instead of loving me despite my horrible behavior and repeated instructions to F off, he said OK.

Your wife has said OK. It sounds like she did her own version of the 180 and has now found out that she doesn't really need you. She certainly doesn't need to be pushed/pulled, told she needs to change, and told to F off. 




> I was secretly hoping I wasn't too late but it turns out that I was. Unrealistic expectations yes but I couldn't really handle the reality that she's done with me (not unless I convince myself that I'm done with her as well) Another reason I didn't want to confess to her how I felt, I made a rash decision and wanted to suffer the consequences of it and move on.
> 
> Instead... I'm now suffering the consequences of it and unable to move on. And she's dragged into all this. I don't really deserve this chance and I don't know what to do. I've reached rock bottom with her. I don't know if MC will fix things now that she's done with me.


I don't think you're too late, but you are on cusp. You are finally getting to the heart of the YOUR issue, which is that your behavior was bad and you had a huge part in getting to this place.

You say you don't deserve this chance. You are getting a chance nonetheless- this is a gift, and in my eyes it shows that your wife still has some feelings for you.

This is a defining time in your life. You have a lot of work to do, it is time for you to learn become a man of Integrity- by which I mean: your psyche (inner children, inner adult) are brought together, and the Adult is in control; you say what mean, and mean what you say. 

When you can do this, you will be are a safe person for your wife and daughter. Right now, your wife very rightly is suspicious that you are just flip-flopping. She doesn't know how you are going to react to things you don't like, she doesn't know whether or not you will continue the push-pull. She is shut down because she isn't about to just re-open her heart to you.

It is blazingly obvious that you are still in love with your wife. You constantly think about her, and you base your actions on what she does- that part is your Older Brother running the show, trying to protect you.

The Adult RD- you need to have your "Come to Jesus Moment" (could'n't help it!) where you sit down with yourself and really decide what it is you are going to fight for. What direction are you going to commit yourself to. It will not depend on what your wife is or isn't doing- it will depend on what YOU want.

It sure looks to me that you want a solid, romantic, wonderful relationship with your wife. 

If that is ultimately your goal, the Adult RD needs to take charge. Reassure your inner younger ones that the Adult has this, it is OK, and you guys will all survive whatever comes your way.

Then, focus on being the Man you want to be, a man of integrity who can lead this ship and is in no way reminiscent of a Katy Perry 'In/Out' song! 

This is really a tall order. You are being confronted with this earlier than I was, and a decade later it can still be challenging.

But it is worth it. It is beyond worth it. If you make this goal, and commit to this growth, all of your relationships will improve, your life trajectory will improve.

If you grow and win your wife back....this is beyond price. It is keeping your family together. It means being with a woman who loves you and has really demonstrated that love. It means being the man to make your daughter Mickey-Mouse pancakes on Saturdays and not being one of two men who do so, or having to share Christmas/Birthdays/holidays/Milestones with a step-father. 

It might not work, and hell, maybe it is not even the optimal outcome- I haven't read all your threads and I don't know really anything about your wife except she is faithful and you still love her. But even if it doesn't, you will know that you tried your best, and you won't have a horrible regret or have the 'What-Ifs'.

I think you are a remarkable young man; you have overcome so much, and you have gone very far. You can do this, too, I have no doubt.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I dunno I just don't see the point if she's already given up, I don't want her to be doing this out of some sense of pity or owing to our daughter to give us a shot if she thinks she owes me something when she owes me nothing.
> 
> Quite frankly I'm insulted if she thinks that.
> 
> ...


If she is willing to try only for your daughter's sake, then take that opportunity. 

There is a LOT you can do right now. Look through these forums, look up the improvement books always recommended for me. I picked up Awareness from Conrad's and others' frequent suggestions and it is GREAT. I always strongly recommend checking out His Needs/Her Needs and any other Marriage Builder material. 

This stuff is for YOU. If it doesn't work out with your wife, it will help you with your future relationships.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

RoseAglow said:


> She didn't give up- if she had given up, she wouldn't consider marriage counseling with you.


=/ True



RoseAglow said:


> If she is willing to try only for your daughter's sake, then take that opportunity.


I should be shouldn't I?



> It sounds to me like she had enough of being hurt by you. Really, you treated her incredibly shabbily. You've talked a lot about how she needs to change, and I am sure this is true. However, you can only control YOU, and YOU need to change, A LOT, in order to ever be a safe man for a woman.


Yeah... I'm seeing that now.



> BTW I was a lot like you, but a female version, in my 20s. I hurt a lot of people, and myself along the way. It took some therapy and a life-changing event for me to finally start to realize that I had an inner child who was running the show. My life got much better, in every way, once I was able to really integrate the Inner Child with the Adult.
> 
> An adult doesn't play the "push/pull" game, or in my case (and it looks like your case, too) the "acting out" game. I did the same behavior and was really shocked to see that instead of loving me despite my horrible behavior and repeated instructions to F off, he said OK.
> 
> Your wife has said OK. It sounds like she did her own version of the 180 and has now found out that she doesn't really need you. She certainly doesn't need to be pushed/pulled, told she needs to change, and told to F off.


The ironic thing is that... this is actually what I wanted, for her to 'spread her wings' so to speak. I saw her vulnerability as a weakness - I didn't know that she only came back to me because she was persuaded by our mutual 'friend' that I had changed.

And spread her wings she did, and then I went "oops"... hell I'm so stupid :slap:

*sigh*



> I don't think you're too late, but you are on cusp. You are finally getting to the heart of the YOUR issue, which is that your behavior was bad and you had a huge part in getting to this place.
> 
> You say you don't deserve this chance. You are getting a chance nonetheless- this is a gift, and in my eyes it shows that your wife still has some feelings for you.


=/



> This is a defining time in your life. You have a lot of work to do, it is time for you to learn become a man of Integrity- by which I mean: your psyche (inner children, inner adult) are brought together, and the Adult is in control; you say what mean, and mean what you say.
> 
> When you can do this, you will be are a safe person for your wife and daughter. Right now, your wife very rightly is suspicious that you are just flip-flopping. She doesn't know how you are going to react to things you don't like, she doesn't know whether or not you will continue the push-pull. She is shut down because she isn't about to just re-open her heart to you.
> 
> ...


... I can't really argue with that... thank you



> If you grow and win your wife back....this is beyond price. It is keeping your family together. It means being with a woman who loves you and has really demonstrated that love. It means being the man to make your daughter Mickey-Mouse pancakes on Saturdays and not being one of two men who do so, or having to share Christmas/Birthdays/holidays/Milestones with a step-father.
> 
> It might not work, and hell, maybe it is not even the optimal outcome- I haven't read all your threads and I don't know really anything about your wife except she is faithful and you still love her. But even if it doesn't, you will know that you tried your best, and you won't have a horrible regret or have the 'What-Ifs'.
> 
> ...


Alright I'm convinced. Fk it all, not going to let any excuse or fear or other BS stop me. Not going to harden up anymore, not going to play anymore games nor am I going to try to protect myself out of fear of what may or may not happen and end up only hurting her and myself again. 

All I have right now is a shot, slim shot, at becoming a better man, better husband and better father. I have all these theories and philosophies in my head but it will be all useless if I can't even put it into practise. I almost failed right before I even began... no, won't happen again.

If there's one woman who's worth fighting for, it's my wife. And even if it doesn't work out, who cares, I ain't going to live out the rest of my days in regret.

*sigh* Thanks for this, I'm feeling better now. I'll go to counselling with her with my head held high and I won't let mine or her demons stand in our way. Hold me to that, and kick me if I fail.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Time for RD to grow the fk up and stop whining and making excuses to chicken out


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Time for RD to grow the fk up and stop whining and making excuses to chicken out


Wahoo! You found your big boy pants!!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Time for RD to grow the fk up and stop whining and making excuses to chicken out


Now you've got it!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks guys, things are alot clearer now... I know what I have to do. It's going to be a marathon, chances are I'll probably slip, but I just have to keep reminding myself why I'm doing this.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You have the strength to do this Random. If you made yourself into what you needed to be to survive the streets at so young an age, then you have it in you to make the changes back. 

Now you need to be a different person. You need to soften up in your relationship with your wife. 

Bringing street values into your home and relationship is akin to what your parents did to you. It's not fair to a woman who loves and accepts you in a way your original family did not. By treating the mother of your child like she is the enemy effects your child. 

Your daughter is exposed to the hardness of the streets through her father's relationship and attitude towards her mother. She will expect that from men when she matures. She'll expect to be treated with contempt if she is vulnerable and loves. 

Can you imagine the life she will live? Not one with a safe happy and loving relationship. She will probably gravitate to an abusive man with contempt for women. That's what she is learning from you. 

Little girls are influenced by their fathers more than their mothers about relationship with men. If the father is abusive towards their mother, they trend to gravitate to abusive men. If he is contemptuous and fickle they will think that is normal. 

Your new family did nothing to you but love you. Why make them suffer? They are family, don't bring the streets inside your home. Create the loving, safe and stable place that you never had. Don't repeat this pattern with your daughter.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's not like my wife has been innocent in all this either Catherine, she put me through hell herself

You're right though, I just have to be self-aware and try to act instead of react to her challenges. And yes, sometimes it's not even her fault, like this "silent treatment" last 2 weeks, she just needed time, yet I just wanted to use it as an excuse to end things.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Anyways enough about my childhood, I'm not proud nor am I ashamed of it but it's a messy thing to think about especially now, seeing her again soon in a few hours


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

Chin up! Don't forget that you are good, noble, gentle and funny. Sometimes that crap is hidden, but it's all good to have and to be.

Go have fun!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> It's not like my wife has been innocent in all this either Catherine, she put me through hell herself
> 
> You're right though, I just have to be self-aware and try to act instead of react to her challenges. And yes, sometimes it's not even her fault, like this "silent treatment" last 2 weeks, she just needed time, yet I just wanted to use it as an excuse to end things.


I know that. I meant to say something about what she needs to do. It not all on you. Your wife has to change her fundamental belief about sex and love. More importantly, she must understand that you are not a penis on a stick. I think if a man had unwanted sex with his wife, people would want to call the police for rape. 

Wont go as far as accusing her of rape. However, the tied up thing could be considered sexual assault. 

Its strange now that I write this. You have been through trauma. Its so ingrained a belief that men cannot be assaulted. I don't think you have addressed have you?

You've been advised to be a steady influence but I have to say that you are doing well for what you have endured. I also have to say that what you went through has been glossed over. Your wife was wise to suggest MC before accepting your offer. She has to make big changes too. 

If she does not sincerely acknowledge that she has been abusive and work long and hard on her issues, I don't think you will be happy. You have to feel safe with her. Don't let this slide by in MC. Keep it front and center. It's important.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks Catherine, I think she's understood, and she did acknowledge her mistakes the last time, but whether or not her demons will come back remains to be seen. It's not really just the demands, it's how b-tchy she can be when she doesn't get it. In the end though it really falls back on me on handling her correctly.

Anyways I decided to join her and daughter to church today, don't ask me why. People were nice, and I caught up with a very open minded friend of mine in private who I do talk to from time to time. Apparently her church has been very supportive for our family throughout our seperation though there are some folks quoting the bible and such insisting that my wife take me to church more often and how it will magically solve our problems through my salvation! lol 

She's still very cold but can't really do much at this point but try to melt the ice slowly. Oh well, have to set up MC tomorrow and see when we can get an appointment.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm proud of you Mr. Flirt. I think you have come a long healthy way. I do hope that with whatever happens you continue to be the better man.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

>.<

The Things We Do For Love / 10cc - Live - YouTube


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Alright, I had a chat with my wife and booked MC for thursday. Guess things are underway...

I've made my decision and I'm sticking by it, just, seems like a really big mountain to climb right now. Even if we get over our seperation, even if we reconcile, even if we are changed people, even if we no longer continue our toxic dynamics, we're still a couple that everyone in RL frowns upon.

:slap:

Oh well... just a little overwhelming right now
But meh, not going to think too much, we might even fail after a few weeks and proceed with the D on Feb, who knows


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Alright, I had a chat with my wife and booked MC for thursday. Guess things are underway...
> 
> I've made my decision and I'm sticking by it, just, seems like a really big mountain to climb right now. Even if we get over our seperation, even if we reconcile, even if we are changed people, even if we no longer continue our toxic dynamics, we're still a couple that everyone in RL frowns upon.
> 
> ...


Nobody here is frowning on you two. We are all rooting for you. 

I don't have fans anywhere!! Lol


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Your thinking way too far ahead. 

Right now it's one day at a time for you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

tracyishere said:


> Nobody here is frowning on you two. We are all rooting for you.
> 
> I don't have fans anywhere!! Lol


Not on this forum, in RL, we're an interracial/interreligious couple remember? heh



smallsteps said:


> Your thinking way too far ahead.
> 
> Right now it's one day at a time for you.


Yeah, one step at a time, just hope this is all worth it tis all


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

No matter the outcome you will come out of this a better person , so it WILL be worth it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I don't really see the light at the end of the tunnel, even if we do fix our internal issues we'll always forever have our external ones. I'll do my best, it's all I can do for now.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

What your interracial /intereligious issues?

If you fix your internal issues it will make the external ones easier to deal with because you will deal with them together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I don't really see the light at the end of the tunnel, even if we do fix our internal issues we'll always forever have our external ones. I'll do my best, it's all I can do for now.


External issues are only issues if you allow them to be.

Internal issues are only issues if you don't address them.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

True, like we once did back in the day... but that was many years ago. When we were first together, our external issues ironically brought us closer together and as our internal issues developed, the external issues went into the backburner... and now after 8 months seperation having experienced what it's like being out of the haze... I've realised I'm now going to be dealing with both. I wouldn't be surprised if she's feeling the same way.

It just comes down to the fact that she will never be truly satisfied with the fact that I will never convert to her religion nor will I ever be satisfied with knowing that I've married interracially. We challenge social norms and expectations simply due to who we are, I was considered a race traitor despite my pride and loyalty to my people and at the same time inspire more jealousy in men than I would have if I was part of their race.

My recent date was one of my own, though of a foreign culture at least she's part of 'my race' based on racialist standards so people considered us 'normal'. It did feel good, being 'normal'. Now I'm heading back to the unorthodox life reconciling with my wife.

I don't know what my wife has been doing and her church has have been very supportive of our family (apparently from one source)... but I know they will never accept my faith or cease to influence my wife in "saving my soul" :slap: 

We've been dealing with this issue for almost a decade, and the world hasn't changed though it's much better at being politically correct. It's very complicated and most couples like us rarely even get to this stage of marriage and children.

Meh, it just makes everything harder.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I think the interracial thing may be easier to get over than the religious issues will be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, getting over interracialism is my problem, not hers, she never once cared. It's a problem because it affects how I see her, from being ashamed of having her as my wife to having to put up with BS because I married out of social norms on both sides. We're "race traitors" and we get evils where ever we go though we're mostly used to it... mostly -> me, I still wish I don't have to put up with it. 

If our genders were reversed ironically we would be considered more socially acceptable. During seperation when dating women of my own race it even seems to be a bomb in itself by admitting that my wife's a 'foreign' woman, it makes them think I'm assimilated and prefer 'foreign' women but that was never the case. Meh

Over the years as much as I've come to accept her as my wife it still bothers me to know that we'll have to endure this for the rest of our lives. At the same time she will never admit it but I'm sure she feels the same way having married a non-christian, especially considering how serious our interreligious issues came to be over the years, which were solved at the cost of her own faith -> now she still believes but is very confused. Our daughter is still very young and so far I've allowed my wife to take her to church but I know we'll eventually fight over religion again.

But meh, one step at a time right? Small steps! Just wish I can see some light at the end of the tunnel that's all, right now I'm climbing in the dark.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

New York is about to elect a mayor tomorrow who is part of an interracial couple. They have two teenage kids. Nobody is batting an eye at them.

As for religion it's more of an issue because of the core beliefs. Is hard when you fundamentally believe two different things. I think at that point, the marriage and the two of you need to take precedence. If religion is front and center you have to agree to disagree. Learn to compromise. It's not an easy thing to balance.

Stbxh and I were the same religion but had very different views on God and the church so it was an issue.

That's right RD, one step at a time. How do you think I came up with my tam name? Lol!

The light will show up eventually.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You'll have to live it to see it, just how it is. Throughout my youth I was in denial of racial issues until my wife got pregnant. I was a guy who doesn't take things seriously amongst mates so even racial jokes/derogatory comments went past me. When they were directed at my daughter yet unborn however I lost my temper, resulting in court charges that put me at risk of being sent back to jail. 

As a result of that we established a joint social circle where we had complete control over each other's choice of friends and thanks to her judgement we've filtered down the accepting folks from the rest. Turns out it benefited us too when it comes to OSFs, and I've never had to break anyone for years despite coming close a few times on the street.

Unfortunately this makes me alot softer now, being a responsible family man who hasn't had a real street fight since marriage. Bah! Anyways when we were dating our problems weren't so noticeable by ourselves, not to mention we were madly in love at that stage. Turns out it's one thing to date a 'foreign' woman, but another to marry her and walk down the street with a multi-racial child. As fun as it was to stick up the middle finger at the world, over the years it gets old, and very... very annoying. Not to mention how some IR couples are simply more socially acceptable then others.

Our religious issues were non-existent before bible college, as she was very free-spirited at that time and although her beliefs were very unorthodox and personal between her and her god, she was very tolerant and accepting of my beliefs and in many ways they were similar. We are both monotheistic and shared similar morals. At the same time she was also very worldly so she didn't believe in no sex before marriage but rather no sex before a committed relationship which I had to wait over a year for.

Things went bad as soon as she began to become indoctrinated by her college, and unfortunately she has been confused ever since especially since marrying me despite having to forgo her dream of opening up her own church in the past. We've made alot of sacrifices to get to where we are, yet we still failed.

All this just messes up the whole "happily ever after" thing


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

See but that's the thing. It shouldn't be about giving the world the "middle finger" it's about not giving a d**n about what people think. If you are happy, who cares.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ey? Means the same thing to me; middle finger/not giving a damn lol

And no I'm not happy, even with all our internal issues aside, I don't like how we stand out amongst the majority and my tarnished reputation amongst my community and I'm sure she feels the same when it comes to her being the black sheep of her church having married a "pagan".

But chances are thursday will come, and we'll have something else to distract us from this backburner issue during MC. Just wish life was simpler.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You will get around to discussing it. I'm sure you aren't going for one MC session, there will be more, it's a process.

Don't go into this with all sorts of pre determined expectations. Go into this with an open mind.

Lol, we all wish life was simpler!!!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks smallsteps, well, guess we'll just have to wait and see. No point worrying about it... for now at least.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Today is counselling day! Any last minute suggestions?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Today is counselling day! Any last minute suggestions?


Go into it with an open mind. Good luck!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

And? Have you gone yet?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well guys... MC went well, no dramas. Alot went out in the open, but meh, she's still mad at me and is no longer sure about us. We're no longer in ST phase though, we're going to spend some time together and see how it goes for the time being. Nothing arranged yet, we're still in cooldown.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well guys... MC went well, no dramas. Alot went out in the open, but meh, she's still mad at me and is no longer sure about us. We're no longer in ST phase though, we're going to spend some time together and see how it goes for the time being. Nothing arranged yet, we're still in cooldown.


Wahoo! Be cool RD.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'll try, I'll think of something later, right now... meh, going to finish off my day and sleep, think of something when I'm fresher.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I'll try, I'll think of something later, right now... meh, going to finish off my day and sleep, think of something when I'm fresher.


Don't hurt your brain.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well guys... MC went well, no dramas. Alot went out in the open, but meh, she's still mad at me and is no longer sure about us. We're no longer in ST phase though, we're going to spend some time together and see how it goes for the time being. Nothing arranged yet, we're still in cooldown.


Sounds like a good start.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I have alot of work to do, and its all cut out for me


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Nothing in life worthwhile is easy to obtain.

Yes, you may have a lot of hard work, but think of the pay off.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I should be happy right? For some reason I'm not, not even this morning. I meditated a bit, and it seems I have a pride problem. I know what I have to do but I just don't want to. It feels like I'm chasing after her, and I haven't done that in years. The only time I ever do come close to that is when I know full well that I'm in the wrong and when I come forward to reconcile.

But this time, it's not the same. She has had her part to play in all this mess. Am I to just forget it? Am I to put her on some pedestal and give her that impression that I've forgotten everything that she herself has done? Meh maybe I'm thinking too much

Now ok sure, she's not exactly being a b-tch, but this whole thing just irritates me. I hate this position where I feel like I have to kiss her ass. I'm not that type... bleh
Why am I even feeling this way?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I should be happy right? For some reason I'm not, not even this morning. I meditated a bit, and it seems I have a pride problem. I know what I have to do but I just don't want to. It feels like I'm chasing after her, and I haven't done that in years. The only time I ever do come close to that is when I know full well that I'm in the wrong and when I come forward to reconcile.
> 
> But this time, it's not the same. She has had her part to play in all this mess. Am I to just forget it? Am I to put her on some pedestal and give her that impression that I've forgotten everything that she herself has done? Meh maybe I'm thinking too much
> 
> ...


Because you are putting her needs ahead of yours. Stop. 

Take care of yourself first.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And how am I doing that?

Bleh


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> And how am I doing that?
> 
> Bleh


By kissing ass, putting her on a pedestal and not requesting she make the changes necessary for a healthy reconciliation. 

Now that you have your chance to reconcile RD you need to make sure your needs are not forgotten. If you go back to an unhealthy relationship all your efforts to be better will be fruitless. 

You have to make sure this doesn't happen. She needs to know what makes you happy. She needs to make the same effort to improve the relationship or you'll just wind up feeling this way over and over again.

For your next MC do you have an agenda? Are you supposed to go back with something accomplished? Some thoughts to mull over or some homework?

If not, I suggest you do some. What do you think is a healthy relationship? What could you improve on? what could she improve on? 

You need to be able to communicate this to her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And this is why I despise vulnerability, I do stupid **** like this.

Everything is just confusing me, MC went well, no dramas sure, why? Because I bit my fking tongue, what did I do this whole time she gave me the ST? I bit my fking tongue, gave her space. Oil and water, and she wonders why I'm hot and cold all the damn time.

Bleh


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> And this is why I despise vulnerability, I do stupid **** like this.
> 
> Everything is just confusing me, MC went well, no dramas sure, why? Because I bit my fking tongue, what did I do this whole time she gave me the ST? I bit my fking tongue, gave her space. Oil and water, and she wonders why I'm hot and cold all the damn time.
> 
> Bleh


It was different then because you were fighting for a chance. Now that you have that chance you need to make it real. you cannot bite your tongue forever. But, don't get all Macho grumpy pants on her. Communicate your needs clearly and respectfully. After all, you are a better man now and being rude and resentful is not your style anymore


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah, guess I'll do that tomorrow, will make me feel better anyways. Bleh


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Yeah, guess I'll do that tomorrow, will make me feel better anyways. Bleh


And don't bombard her with everything all at once or she'll feel attacked. One thing at a time.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Awww but that's what I do! Besides I've been saving it!
Bah! No fun at all 

Kidding... though tempting!
Bleh


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Awww but that's what I do! Besides I've been saving it!
> Bah! No fun at all
> 
> Kidding... though tempting!
> Bleh


Be in control. You'll like it


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Control... thats the problem

I dont feel in control, not with this whole vulnerability crap telling her how I feel and all that. Meh

Doesn't help that her behaviour recently/what she said to me/to our MC, is that she already considered us DONE and she's only giving us this chance cause of what I said even though she seems to believe that's its already a little too late.

Speaking of which, reminds me of that song... what was it...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jojo Too Little Too Late lyrics - YouTube

Ha! This song!

This song expresses the same impression that she's giving me ATM, like how she doesn't believe anything I say anymore and whatever. I don't want her to pity me, to give us a chance just out of some stupid obligation yet I feel no love from her part, just cold shoulders.

Now ok sure I can't expect much but how am I supposed to work with this?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Boo! That's a terrible song😞


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Of course it is, and that's the tune she's singing to me!

I don't want her to start saying "OMG see you haven't changed", so I've been walking on bloody eggshells. I hate this bloody position, yet I'm in no position to assert anything either, I got myself in this stupid mess by rejecting her and then asking her to forgive and give us another shot right after she already decided to move on.

:slap:

She already decided to move on...

So yeah, a part of me still reckons I should have let her go


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Of course it is, and that's the tune she's singing to me!
> 
> I don't want her to start saying "OMG see you haven't changed", so I've been walking on bloody eggshells. I hate this bloody position, yet I'm in no position to assert anything either, I got myself in this stupid mess by rejecting her and then asking her to forgive and give us another shot right after she already decided to move on.
> 
> ...


And lived with regret knowing you did.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Meh


You know you LUV her
You know you WANT her

You know it's worth it


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's not as simple as that I'm afraid, nevermind


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> It's not as simple as that I'm afraid, nevermind


You've had one session.

You know next time you need to speak up in a nice way and make your voice heard.

Being silent doesn't accomplish anything.

You are overthinking again.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> It's not as simple as that I'm afraid, nevermind


I know. But why can't it be?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I just don't want her to think she's doing me some favor and I sure as hell don't want her to do me any favors... bleh

Yet I feel I asked her one by confessing my stupid feelings and I hate the position that has got me into. Alright sure I don't have to be a suckup right but what am I supposed to do?

Ah fk it, I'll just assert my feelings and if she goes all "OMG see? You haven't changed, I knew it" then fk it, I'm over all this crap anyway, the last thing I want is for her to think I'm weak, even if I lose her. I'd rather live and die with some fking dignity. Not this crap.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I just don't want her to think she's doing me some favor and I sure as hell don't want her to do me any favors... bleh
> 
> Yet I feel I asked her one by confessing my stupid feelings and I hate the position that has got me into. Alright sure I don't have to be a suckup right but what am I supposed to do?
> 
> Ah fk it, I'll just assert my feelings and if she goes all "OMG see? You haven't changed, I knew it" then fk it, I'm over all this crap anyway, the last thing I want is for her to think I'm weak, even if I lose her. I'd rather live and die with some fking dignity. Not this crap.


RD. Stop it. You are exaggerating everything. 

You said the MC went fine, she's willing to give your marriage another shot. Those are the facts. 

What she thinks, you have no control over. And quite frankly who cares why she chose to stay. SHE CHOSE TO STAY! This is your opportunity to make things work. Don't go in it with that piss poor attitude like you already lost. 

Be grateful to her for this chance. Embrace her for her commitment to you and your marriage. Those are wonderful loving qualities that are very hard to find. 

You are lucky RD! Celebrate.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Grateful? I would be more grateful if she had dealt our marriage a merciful strike not this second chance crap while she's already done with us. I didn't want this to become some sort of duty based on her commitment to our marriage.

She may not have said it but I can feel it, it's the ILYBNILWY scenario. I HATE it. Yet if I push her away now - which is my instinct - then she'll be proven right and I don't want that especially not when I'm still forced to bloody see her face every fking week.

How am I supposed to celebrate?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Grateful? I would be more grateful if she had dealt our marriage a merciful strike not this second chance crap while she's already done with us. I didn't want this to become some sort of duty based on her commitment to our marriage.
> 
> She may not have said it but I can feel it, it's the ILYBNILWY scenario. I HATE it. Yet if I push her away now - which is my instinct - then she'll be proven right and I don't want that especially not when I'm still forced to bloody see her face every fking week.
> 
> How am I supposed to celebrate?


You are stubborn. 😡

Remember that night you encountered her on the stairwell and she said she wasn't sure about you. Remember how upset you felt that she hadn't embraced you for giving her another chance. Remember that? I do. I remember you being quite angry and hurt. 

Kinda like you are now. Except this time she did embrace you and allow another chance. 

You are mad at her either way. I don't get you. Soooooo confused.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

We're seperated and she's already out of love, this isn't like the past. And no I'm not mad at her, I have no reason to be. I just don't have much to go on right now, she hates my guts, doesn't trust me, and hell I don't blame her one bit.

What I am p-ssed about is how she seems to be doing this out of some sense of what? duty? pity? bleh! And not to mention we're probably better off without each other anyway, she was getting there - moving on that is. Not to mention I'll never be satisfied putting up with her race or religion so what's the whole point of this? Love? Pffft, which isn't even mutual anymore it seems.

I wasn't kidding when I said I have my work cut out for me, and that I don't see a light at the end of this tunnel. Now ok sure I can't expect her to feel anything considering what I've done but meh

Everything is just a fking mess


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> We're seperated and she's already out of love, this isn't like the past. And no I'm not mad at her, I have no reason to be. I just don't have much to go on right now, she hates my guts, doesn't trust me, and hell I don't blame her one bit.
> 
> What I am p-ssed about is how she seems to be doing this out of some sense of what? duty? pity? bleh! And not to mention we're probably better off without each other anyway, she was getting there - moving on that is. Not to mention I'll never be satisfied putting up with her race or religion so what's the whole point of this? Love? Pffft, which isn't even mutual anymore it seems.
> 
> ...


Yup it is! And you have the opportunity to clean it all up together! 

RD, my H was not in love with me, my H was finding a place to rent with his OW when I started my mission to reconcile. I didn't care. I knew I'd have to win him back. I worked my ass off to do that. It was the most thankless painful humiliating and degrading thing I've ever had to do. But I did it. Many people won't. You need to decide how important your marriage is. You need to decide how much effort you are willing to put in. You need to decide if it is worth all the BS. YOU.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well... one thing for sure Tracy, that is something I will never do. If STBX has an OM and decides to move in with him I would be like "yay! you've made this easy for me" and move on myself. I've already met two decent potentials this year but I wasn't ready for them.

For me, my dignity is more important to me than my marriage. STBX isn't making it easy for me however, no OM - not that I know of yet.. actually, I think I'm going to bring this up tomorrow, not going to keep biting my tongue.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well... one thing for sure Tracy, that is something I will never do. If STBX has an OM and decides to move in with him I would be like "yay! you've made this easy for me" and move on myself. I've already met two decent potentials this year but I wasn't ready for them.
> 
> For me, my dignity is more important to me than my marriage. STBX isn't making it easy for me however, no OM - not that I know of yet.. actually, I think I'm going to bring this up tomorrow, not going to keep biting my tongue.


Well I'm glad to hear that. It means you know your limits. Not many people do. I would certainly say something about it if it has the possibility of having that much influence on your decision. 

You need all the information you can to make these kinds of decisions. It hurts like a mommy pucker but it's got to get done. 

Either way it turns out, you have a web full of friends ready and waiting to get you back on your feet again.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah, well, guess I'll find out tomorrow, and decide what to do about all this later. Meh


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

That's what I was thinking, thanks 2galsmom
And what? Realbrighteyes isn't in this thread :scratchhead:

*sigh* Maybe I should just let it out, I ain't going to move forward with this if it means kissing her ass or if she's doing this out of some sense of duty or some crap. I'd rather she let me go, bleh!

Should I even tell her this?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Of course it is, and that's the tune she's singing to me!
> 
> I don't want her to start saying "OMG see you haven't changed", so I've been walking on bloody eggshells. I hate this bloody position, yet I'm in no position to assert anything either, I got myself in this stupid mess by rejecting her and then asking her to forgive and give us another shot right after she already decided to move on.
> 
> ...


Don't walk on eggshells mate. It's not sustainable, it's not true.

Keep your integrity, be yourself, keep your dignity. If she truly loves you for who you are, then she'll accept that. If she doesn't, well then you have your answer.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Being myself is what gets me into all this mess in the first place, I'm trying to be a "better me"... bah, maybe trying too hard.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Being myself is what gets me into all this mess in the first place, I'm trying to be a "better me"... bah, maybe trying too hard.


Perhaps I should have termed it as "be your best self".

I find, for me, that means following my heart & following my instincts. Keeping my integrity, being honest, and having as much fun as possible in life.

What does it mean to you?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Right now it means controlling my self-destructive instincts! Ha!

But meh, guess if I'm honest with her in the morning, and say it the right way, maybe I can get away with it! After all, not what you say but how you say it right?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Right now it means controlling my self-destructive instincts! Ha!
> 
> But meh, guess if I'm honest with her in the morning, and say it the right way, maybe I can get away with it! After all, not what you say but how you say it right?


Right!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Alright then, I'm loading the bombs as we speak, with non-destructive warheads. Wonder if she'll still complain about the lawn.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Right now it means controlling my self-destructive instincts! Ha!
> 
> But meh, guess if I'm honest with her in the morning, and say it the right way, maybe I can get away with it! After all, not what you say but how you say it right?


At the end of the day mate, you've gotta do what's right for you.

If honesty is something you value, be honest.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Alright then, I'm loading the bombs as we speak, with non-destructive warheads. Wonder if she'll still complain about the lawn.


Wrong metaphor it sounds like you're going to war.

Getting your thoughts in order sounds better.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Everything's a war to me, even at work. Although it mostly runs by itself nowadays whenever I'm there during a large function after briefing my supervisors and staff I go "BATTLE STATIONS people!" and "Incoming" and "Stay alive!" hehe.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I think you like to play war...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I also like to play 'superior officer'


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Eh? Not really, only when it comes to lovey dovey crap


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Everything's a war to me, even at work. Although it mostly runs by itself nowadays whenever I'm there during a large function after briefing my supervisors and staff I go "BATTLE STATIONS people!" and "Incoming" and "Stay alive!" hehe.


Well if you insist then maybe visualize you and your wife on the same side but you both are battling the adversity in your marriage.
How's that??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The Bedouin people had a saying, widely recognised by other nomadic cultures like mine, it goes; "Me against my brother, my brothers and I against my cousins, my cousins and I against the world"

Besides, tis wargames no?  Heh, sorry, I'm being a smarta$$ I know >.<

Just... meh, one problem of our marriage has always been this power struggle - it's hard to find the right balance that can get us to work as a team but when we do we are quite strong together like in our honeymoon years. Events since bible college/marriage has thrown things out of balance though and everything has been seesawing ever since.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Well marriage is teamwork. So if what you say is true, you should be really good at it!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not when my wife is also my arch nemesis, it's always been love/hate since our interreligious quarrels.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Not when my wife is also my arch nemesis, it's always been love/hate since our interreligious quarrels.


Now that you are reconciling you should discuss what aspects of each religion are acceptable in your home, marriage, parenting. 

You need to come to an agreement about how you want your daughter to be raised with which beliefs, morals and ceremonies she can practice. 

These are very important discussions that should have been had a long time ago. This needs to happen or you'll just be rug sweeping.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

When it comes to our daughter we're in agreement to minimise religious exposure and my wife doesn't stop me from teaching my daughter about her heritage - nor would she dare.

Between ourselves though... meh


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> When it comes to our daughter we're in agreement to minimise religious exposure and my wife doesn't stop me from teaching my daughter about her heritage - nor would she dare.
> 
> Between ourselves though... meh


No "meh".

This is very obviously an area that you have strong feelings about. To ignore that is stupid.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's too early to ignite an all-out war especially now when we haven't completed nuclear disarmament yet =/


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> It's too early to ignite an all-out war especially now when we haven't completed nuclear disarmament yet =/


I agree. But do not ignore your needs/concerns. These need to be addressed sooner or later.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Later, for now I have to make sure she doesn't think she has the upper hand, it may tempt her to exploit it... I'm not fully trusting her either, we both still have our guards up.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Later, for now I have to make sure she doesn't think she has the upper hand, it may tempt her to exploit it... I'm not fully trusting her either, we both still have our guards up.


There you go fighting for control again. This isn't a competition RD.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It shouldn't be, but trust isn't going to be repaired overnight. Meh I dunno


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

You don't need to trust right now. You need to respect. By asserting yourself and taking control away from her you are disrespecting her.

You both are on the defense right now. Placing blame upon each other. You both need to let go of that in order to move forward. 

Lose that mindset that you must break her or gain control. Try thinking about it differently. Try thinking that each conversation is an opportunity to address the issues you and she have, and that together you can work towards resolving them.

It is not about just you anymore. If you want her back in your life you need to respect her point of view, needs and concerns as well.

You are a team when you are together, whether you like it or not. Use it, don't lose it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I just want to be on equal footing when it comes to dealing with her, not going to put her down or anything, besides I have changed my style in communication. Too old to really argue no more


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

My H always felt that women are controlling. That they manipulate their husbands into getting their way. This lead to allot of resentment whenever I offered my point of view to him. He always felt I had a hidden agenda. It was disastrous for our relationship. 

I have a hunch you are somewhat similar. You refer to her as exploiting you and taking the upper hand. This kind of thinking is not healthy. 

If this is how you truly feel in your relationship with her, she needs to know that so you can work through this.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

STBX has proven herself controlling and manipulative over the years thanks to her poisonous mum, her "marriage mentor" it seems. Oh well, will be seeing her soon, I'm giving her alot of benefit of the doubt.

I'll drop my bombs nicely - without the warheads, just to mess up her lawn and see what she thinks.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Best wishes...rooting for ya fella!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, we went for a drive and lunch with our daughter, guess it's always good to have her along, prevents us having a fight. She cut me though, she told me that she's not doing MC with me out of pity or because she feels she owes me anything, she's doing this for our daughter's sake... so it looks like I'm out of the equation, and when questioned about her feelings towards me she refused to answer.

Instead she repeated what she said about being unsure of us. I told her that I'm not going to commit to reconciliation if it's going to be a one way street and she asked me what more do I want from her, and that she's already decided to try again. Guess it was as best an answer as I could get, though not happy about it. I suggested we spend some time during next week as planned and that was that. I did give her a hug though and told her that I am sorry, and she said she was sorry too.

No fight, just... meh


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

That's awesome! Apologies are always a good sign. It means you can start letting go of some of the pain.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Always the optimist aren't you?

I still don't feel like I'm on equal footing, I'm being vulnerable while she's not. Bleh
Oh well, taking my daughter out again


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bah, I forgot to ask her if there's an OM -.-
Oh well, remind me tomorrow... what else did I miss?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Always the optimist aren't you?
> 
> I still don't feel like I'm on equal footing, I'm being vulnerable while she's not. Bleh
> Oh well, taking my daughter out again


Why not?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Bah, I forgot to ask her if there's an OM -.-
> Oh well, remind me tomorrow... what else did I miss?


The I love you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I already told her I still had feelings for her, and ILY is going to be ill-timed not to mention I'm already vulnerable enough as it is. I'm trying to get back on equal footing not drill myself deeper into this hole I've dug into.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I already told her I still had feelings for her, and ILY is going to be ill-timed not to mention I'm already vulnerable enough as it is. I'm trying to get back on equal footing not drill myself deeper into this hole I've dug into.


Ya ya. Mr. Romeo.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Romeo? Since when? -.-


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Romeo? Since when? -.-


I must be tired.  

Seriously RD you make things so much more complicated then they need to be. How do you know she's not feeling vulnerable? I'd say she is. She's putting her heart on the line the same as you in hopes she can reconcile for her daughter. She doesn't have to do that. She's choosing to. She is taking the same risk you are.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

:scratchhead:

That just went straight over my head, oh well, might think on this later, daughter's annoying me atm. I thought I could keep her busy with HTTYD episodes but now she wants a dragon -.-

At least I know what to get her for xmas though.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok, had a think about what you said, maybe vulnerability is not the problem. I'm just not happy having the ball on my court while STBX on the other side doesn't seem to be willing to pass the ball back... if you know what I mean.

I don't want to become a suckup


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Ok, had a think about what you said, maybe vulnerability is not the problem. I'm just not happy having the ball on my court while STBX on the other side doesn't seem to be willing to pass the ball back... if you know what I mean.
> 
> I don't want to become a suckup


What you want is for her to fall right back in love all over again and live with you happily ever after. 

Too bad love isn't so simple. You and her have tons of work to do. You won't be able to go the easy way out RD if you want to make it last. 

Take your stubborn and controlling attitude and use it as a tool to make this work instead of using it to find alternatives. If you can apply it to succeeding in your marriage, you will have the determination and motivation to get you through. 

Those can be very positive traits if used wisely.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well guys... we had a little bit of a 'heated' discussion... I was curious whether there was someone else in her life which she denied it, and has apparently not dated since the OM months ago. She flipped the question to me and I didn't want to lie to her. I tried to keep my mouth shut with the details but she was very inquisitive, asked me if I had been physical with my recent date, I told her no I didn't have sex with her, she said I wasn't answering her question, and eventually got me to admit that I kissed her.

She was rather edgy at this point, asked me if it felt good and all that crap so I told her the truth that it didn't and that I FZed her. Then she got even more edgy and asked me if I was still in contact with her, I told her that I haven't been out with her since. And once again she demanded straight yes/no answers *sigh* which then led her to demand that I cut contact with her and that if I needed my laundry done she would do it for me so I won't have to go back there anymore.

I agreed to do so, meh. Worse comes to worse I can still find her though ha! Oh well, don't really believe that there's no one else in her life maybe I should have been more inquisitive back... but meh, she's not known for lying outright.

Oh well, guess my wife is now my laundry lady again... "yay" I guess -.-


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

tracyishere said:


> What you want is for her to fall right back in love all over again and live with you happily ever after.
> 
> Too bad love isn't so simple. You and her have tons of work to do. You won't be able to go the easy way out RD if you want to make it last.
> 
> ...


Well, what can I do exactly? I don't know how to make someone fall back in love with me once they already decided to move on. Now ok sure she decided to give me another chance but what can I do with it exactly? Stick together for the sake of our daughter and that's it?

Meh I dunno


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well guys... we had a little bit of a 'heated' discussion... I was curious whether there was someone else in her life which she denied it, and has apparently not dated since the OM months ago. She flipped the question to me and I didn't want to lie to her. I tried to keep my mouth shut with the details but she was very inquisitive, asked me if I had been physical with my recent date, I told her no I didn't have sex with her, she said I wasn't answering her question, and eventually got me to admit that I kissed her.
> 
> She was rather edgy at this point, asked me if it felt good and all that crap so I told her the truth that it didn't and that I FZed her. Then she got even more edgy and asked me if I was still in contact with her, I told her that I haven't been out with her since. And once again she demanded straight yes/no answers *sigh* which then led her to demand that I cut contact with her and that if I needed my laundry done she would do it for me so I won't have to go back there anymore.
> 
> ...


She's jealous. Isn't that a good sign? A sign that she still has the desire to have you as her own? 

 

Stick a note in your dirty pants that says how much you love her and that she's the sexiest laundry lady in town.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> She's jealous. Isn't that a good sign? A sign that she still has the desire to have you as her own?


No, it probably just means she doesn't want me and doesn't want anyone to have me either.



> Stick a note in your dirty pants that says how much you love her and that she's the sexiest laundry lady in town.


=/

You have to be kidding me


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Rd! I would love If my H did this! You know how excited you are when you find money in your pocket?!
Well this is 10x better! It'll at least make her laugh.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> No, it probably just means she doesn't want me and doesn't want anyone to have me either.
> 
> You are a bum. That's all I'm saying about that.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Or it'll make her roll her eyes, she isn't exactly lovey dovey at the moment, I can still feel the steam coming out of her ears whenever she's with me.

Besides she'll probably wont even find the note and instead have paper running all over the washing machine and then scolding me (again) for forgetting to empty out my pockets before putting my clothes in the laundry basket like the 'good o days'



> You are a bum. That's all I'm saying about that.


I'm a realist


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Or it'll make her roll her eyes, she isn't exactly lovey dovey at the moment, I can still feel the steam coming out of her ears whenever she's with me.
> 
> Besides she'll probably wont even find the note and instead have paper running all over the washing machine and then scolding me (again) for forgetting to empty out my pockets before putting my clothes in the laundry basket like the 'good o days'
> 
> ...


Well at least make sure your pockets are not filled with condom wrappers....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

tracyishere said:


> Well at least make sure your pockets are not filled with condom wrappers....


Now THAT is a good idea! :FIREdevil:


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

You have to make her feel loved. What are some things that you like?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Somethings that I like? :scratchhead:


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Somethings that I like? :scratchhead:


What kinds of things does she do that make you feel that she loves you?

Do you like touch?
Do you like compliments?
Do you like spending time together?
Do you like coming home to a ready made meal?
Do you like gifts?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Love languages eh? We did a quiz years ago but I forgot the results. For her I do remember her primary LL being physical touch and WOA

Do you like touch?
Not always, and not in public depending on the environment. If circumstances permit though, sure.

Do you like compliments?
Not really, I can accept them but I'd rather not recieve them.

Do troubling time together?
Yeah, I do like quality time.

Do you like coming home to a ready made meal?
Yeah...

Do you like gifts? 
Yeah... especially when it's something I really wanted/needed.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Love languages eh? We did a quiz years ago but I forgot the results. For her I do remember her primary LL being physical touch and WOA
> 
> Do you like touch?
> Not always, and not in public depending on the environment. If circumstances permit though, sure.
> ...


Funny, she is the same as me!  

Well, physical touch isn't just sex you know. 

WOA is easy! That love note thing should totally work if you word it right. Something simple. You could even just write thank you and put it on top of the pile so she doesn't miss it.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

It let's her know you appreciate her and are thinking about her. It also says you are making extra effort to show her this.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Maybe draw a funny picture or something too. To make her laugh.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's a problem because I don't really have the green light for physical touch even with the hug yesterday I could feel her tension, not to mention she's taking what I say with a grain of salt so I'm at a serious disadvantage here when it comes to winning her back.

And love notes just ain't my style =/
I'm not a soap opera type of romantic, unless I go on a chick flick marathon and listen to love songs all day maybe I'll soften up enough to embarrass myself into doing so... Only to vomit the day after and regret everything


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Random...do you know what other-validated intimacy means? You seem to be doing that quite a bit.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> It's a problem because I don't really have the green light for physical touch even with the hug yesterday I could feel her tension, not to mention she's taking what I say with a grain of salt so I'm at a serious disadvantage here when it comes to winning her back.
> 
> And love notes just ain't my style =/
> I'm not a soap opera type of romantic, unless I go on a chick flick marathon and listen to love songs all day maybe I'll soften up enough to embarrass myself into doing so... Only to vomit the day after and regret everything


Why isn't it? Do you think it takes away from your manliness?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@FW

:scratchhead:

Explain?

@Tracy



> Why isn't it? Do you think it takes away from your manliness?


It's just not me =/


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> @FW
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> ...


Do you think I like washing pee off the toilet seat? No. But I do it cuzz it needs to get done 

Do you think I like giving a massage every flipping night? No. But I do it because he loves it and it makes him feel loved. 

Sometimes you have to do things that normally you wouldn't in order to make the person you love happy.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Perhaps it's better if you don't vear too far away from who you are at your core. She knows you and she will not take you seriously if become a soppy romantic when you were never that way before. It's too much out of character when you are trying to convince her that you are being real. I don't think you have to put on an act. 

You are fine the way you are. The things you need to change is the hard shell you created to shield the real you. Otherwise you are basically a survivor and a strong man. 

I'd say it is better not to kiss her ass. Respect yourself and respect her. Do what ever you can to preserve your dignity throughout, except get angry and waffle. If R is successful you will feel good, if not you still feel good. 

As far as vulnerability goes, it's frightening. You don't lose your dignity by being vulnerable. It is much harder to be open than to close yourself off. You offer your wife love, she is worth the effort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm not really cut out for soap opera crap, I'm allergic to pollen, my voice is too deep to be a good singer - my notes are all flat, I wanted to start guitar lessons with my daughter but she prefers the piano instead, I can't rhyme for sh-t and the idea of love notes makes me sick to my stomach.

If I am to give WOA, I "sneak it in" through flirts and teases. I express myself in music through dance and its not the soapy crap, and I treat karaoke as comic relief when I'm drunk and want to be a comedian.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Perhaps it's better if you don't vear too far away from who you are at your core. She knows you and she will not take you seriously if become a soppy romantic when you were never that way before. It's too much out of character when you are trying to convince her that you are being real. I don't think you have to put on an act. You are fine the way you are. The things you need to change is the hard shell you created to shield the real you. Otherwise you are basically a survivor and a strong man.


*wipes sweat*

Thank you! I am SAVED lol



> I'd say it is better not to kiss her ass. Respect yourself and respect her. Do what ever you can to preserve your dignity throughout, except get angry and waffle. If R is successful you will feel good, if not you still feel good. As far as vulnerability goes, it's frightening. You don't lose your dignity by being vulnerable. It is much harder to be open than to close yourself off. You offer your wife love, she is worth the effort.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, and I agree with you... however, well... how will I get through this barrier between me and her at the moment?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> *wipes sweat*
> 
> Thank you! I am SAVED lol
> 
> ...


http://youtu.be/mw-wc7hY06Y


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I love me


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

=/

Happy face alone ain't going to cut it


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

That's not your shell you trying to get through. It's hers. She was vulnerable when you were living together, remember ? You kicked her, remember that? She offered R and you kicked her again. That's vulnerability. You said she was getting too defendant on you when she was just being a woman in love. 

Remember that? Now you want her to hurry up and get over it. You both hurt each other badly. It will take time to recover. You have to acknowledge what you did and she has to do the same. 

When the time right, tell her that you may have done things to push her away and make her insecure in your love. Let her know you are sorry and that you will never do it again. Get similar promises from her. That's only if you feel that way and you two get past this early stage of R. 

R means she has to need and depend on you. She was hurt by you when she did that. As you can see, she does not lack strength and self respect. She did not need your reassurance of you love on a regular basis because she had no other options. She chose to love and depend on you. You are asking her to take a chance that you will not do what you have done before when she is vulnerable - kick her. 

Do you understand why she is careful? What ever you do, don't ever treat her with contempt, ever. I'll tell you something about women. No matter how self assured they are, they need regular confirmation of love. 

That's just the way it is. Men have their ways of being when they are in love and so do women. Accept that about her. She is in love and that's what she needs. Don't kick her when she shows that need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> =/
> 
> Happy face alone ain't going to cut it


You are doing fine. Stop worrying. You are a worry wart.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> That's not your shell you trying to get through. It's hers. She was vulnerable when you were living together, remember? You kicked her, remember? She offered R and you kicked her again. That's vulnerability. You said she was getting too dependably on you when she was loving. Remember that? Now you want her to hurry up and get over it. You both hurt each other. You have to acknowledge what you did and she has to do the same.
> 
> When the time right, tell her that you may have done things to push her away and make her insecure in your love. Let her know you are sorry and that you will never do it again. Get similar promises from her. That's only if you feel that way and you two get past this early stage of R.
> 
> ...


Wahoo! Well said!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Guess only time will heal what's been done... so what should I do in the meantime? We did agree to meet up this week, dont know what to do though =/


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Guess only time will heal what's been done... so what should I do in the meantime? We did agree to meet up this week, dont know what to do though =/


Be yourself and have a good time?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Be patient steady and consistent. It's hard but it is the only way. Don't hang on every little thing she does or says. 

What you are looking for is a change in trends. You can not see the direction of a trend if you look at it from day to day. It happens over months. 

What happened in your last meeting was monumental. It took you time to get there but do you see a trend? Is it going in a positive direction? Don't push it. Let it settle and solidify at this point. Don't push to the next level while standing on wet cement. 

Get this stage done before moving ahead. I don't know what you need to do exactly. I do know that you have to be patient and the next step will come naturally. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Be patient steady and consistent. It's hard but it is the only way. Don't hang on every little thing she does or says.
> 
> What you are looking for is a change in trends. You can not see the direction of a trend if you look at it from day to day. It happens over months.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I would be more patient if I wasn't celibate. It's driving me nuts! Also the reason why I can't believe she has no OM considering she's higher drive than me, it just doesn't make any sense.

So yeah... hard to be positive about this whole thing.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I would be more patient if I wasn't celibate. It's driving me nuts! Also the reason why I can't believe she has no OM considering she's higher drive than me, it just doesn't make any sense.
> 
> So yeah... hard to be positive about this whole thing.


Maybe she likes sex because it was with you. 
I'm horny all the time. But I'm not horny for sex with other men. I'm horny for my H. I went 8 months without while we reconciled. 

Stay out of the SIM thread....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm...

Getting some funny ideas as we speak, seducing my way back into her pants... ha! But first have to get into her good graces first... or do I? Hmmm, besides the sex was better in the past whenever she was mad at me

*sigh* Hell what AM I THINKING? >.<
See what I mean? Not to mention she's been keeping herself in shape, and I miss those legs of hers... also inspiring me to workout, I've lost my 6 pack though  it's back to 4, my last 2 packs have been replaced by a bit of flab... need to do some situps. Arms/chest/shoulders already sore from yesterday too...

Bah!


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

That's right get all sweaty....


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I would be more patient if I wasn't celibate. It's driving me nuts! Also the reason why I can't believe she has no OM considering she's higher drive than me, it just doesn't make any sense.
> 
> So yeah... hard to be positive about this whole thing.



There is the possibility that she has not met anyone like
you or that she still has hope that you two can still
R.I bet both you and your ex still love each,but don't
know how to positively show it.Next time you see your
child,think what makes her special.She has the best
of both you and her mother.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She has the best of both of us alright, she's an weighty influence in keeping us together really. I don't know how my wife is keeping herself sexless but meh... guess I can't really do much but give her some benefit of the doubt.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> She has the best of both of us alright, she's an weighty influence in keeping us together really. I don't know how my wife is keeping herself sexless but meh... guess I can't really do much but give her some benefit of the doubt.


Her desire was centered on you, the man she loves. She has matured. Sex may not have been connected to love in her past but it is now. 

She may not the same woman you met years ago. Marriage and motherhood changed her core beliefs. It has not changed the essentials of her. 

You are not the same man either. Everyone changes to meet different responsibilities. She is a loyal, responsible woman who has your back, if you let her. She is a good mother. That's a big deal Random. 

You match her qualities. That's a big deal too.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You and I both know love doesn't ensure fidelity, and she hasn't exactly proven herself to be good at self control considering her demands/b-fits whenever she didn't get any. Hence why a part of me still doesnt believe her despite knowing that she has somehow managed to stay loyal all this time. I even spied on her a few times but found nothing nor any flags

I dunno, she's weird


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I agree love is no assurance. But commitment and a strong sense of loyalty effects the ability to resist temptation. Everyone is tempted. The difference between people who go for it and those who don't is mainly the strength of their beliefs.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well... guess I can't deny hers

But imagine if the bible said "Thou shalt not force thy husband to have sex nor punish him for not giving thee any"! Would have saved us alot of problems! Bah!

We're seperated though, and I already gave her free reign, yet she's STILL loyal. Then again so was I... only because there's something wrong with me... meh


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

If she is able to refrain from having sex for the 9 months you have been separated then she can refrain from almost raping you every day. 

She can tap into the same well of self control. Discuss that with her when the time is right.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

In the past she never had to as the world literally doesn't believe a man can be forced into sex and if he is, he should be grateful, hence I gave into her demands each and everytime for a while until it became too much to handle to the point I dreaded her.

In recent times prior to seperation she had stopped the demands but gave me ST instead whenever I rejected her, saw it as I didn't love her, didn't desire her, all that crap. Bah! Anyways... it's been 9 months, who knows what's going on in that department anyways. She has apologised and she has been doing counselling so maybe she has changed.

But I'll never know will I until sex is reintroduced into our lives.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

9 months celibacy though... I would sure welcome being raped by her right about now! Bah! Then end up complaining it a few weeks later ha!

Either too much or too little! Why can't things just meet in the bloody middle


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Guys... is it even a good idea to even try to reintroduce sex at this point? You know I'm going nuts with celibacy at the moment, and if anything this semi-reconciliation combined with 9 months celibacy + her being unavailable at present times is making me fking horny


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Guys... is it even a good idea to even try to reintroduce sex at this point? You know I'm going nuts with celibacy at the moment, and if anything this semi-reconciliation combined with 9 months celibacy + her being unavailable at present times is making me fking horny


Unfortunately, I can't help you here. 

Perhaps speak to her about it?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think you shouldn't. First, it might set the R back. She think your attempt to get back together is about sex. Besides, might be repeating a patten that you are trying to eliminate. She should not use you sexually and you have to show the same restraint. Remember you are more to each other than sex partners. Do you love her or simply desire her? That might be what she asks herself. 

She is probably working on connecting sex with love in IC. You said you want that. Having sex with her when neither of you are ready to express your love for each other is a bad way to start. You are asking her to control her high sex drive in your relationship. It's hard as you can see. She has been doing that for the last 9 months. You have both come so far don't do anything to mess it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Being that she is allot like me. I would say go for it. I wanted nothing more than to hop back in the sack when were reconciling.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well considering she equated sex to love, desiring her would help her feel loved would it not? However you are correct that this is a pattern that I'm trying to eliminate and if she has made progress in counselling this could definitely complicate things... hence the restraint/uncertainty whether I should or shouldn't. It's like opening pandora's box all over again.

I do want her to appreciate non-sexual forms of love and that was the plan but I've noticed with celibacy for 9 months even when I'm with her I can't take my mind away from just ripping her clothes off and doing her right there and then. I even masturbate about her 
She's still the only one I'm comfortable being sexually intimate with.

Ah hell maybe I'll decide only after I determine whether or not she has made progress.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh I am wrong about her view of sex. I forgot, she seems to almost always feel loved based on having sex. That's why she is not having sex. She still loves you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

? :scratchhead:


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Buy a Fleshlight.

It's not the same as a woman, but it's better than a hand .

Or, so I've heard......


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ey? It has the same drawbacks as the hand ; no female body to play with

I'm seeing her tomorrow though, hopefully I can keep the blood in my brain and not my twanger. Might whack off beforehand just in case though. *sigh*


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Ey? It has the same drawbacks as the hand ; no female body to play with
> 
> I'm seeing her tomorrow though, hopefully I can keep the blood in my brain and not my twanger. Might whack off beforehand just in case though. *sigh*


Yeah, that's a definite drawback .

I'm sure you'll keep your cool mate. Just try to focus on something else .


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, it's meant to be our 'reconnecting day' so it's not like an MC session or anything. So the temptation will be there, unless she continues to be all cold to me and shrug me off like she has done. Meh


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well, it's meant to be our 'reconnecting day' so it's not like an MC session or anything. So the temptation will be there, unless she continues to be all cold to me and shrug me off like she has done. Meh


Or.... she may want to reconnect physically as well. Who knows. Just play it cool and go with what feels right.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yet she may not have changed yet, and I'll only be reopening pandora's box and the next thing I know I move back in and Darth Wifey puts her helmet back on again *sigh* ... though, my gut does tell me based on how she's handled herself in recent months, she's done with our fights.

But that's assuming she even desires me anymore, she's made it clear she's only giving us this chance for our daughter. No indication of desire or affection, more anger that I 'played' hot/cold with her.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Yet she may not have changed yet, and I'll only be reopening pandora's box and the next thing I know I move back in and Darth Wifey puts her helmet back on again *sigh* ... though, my gut does tell me based on how she's handled herself in recent months, she's done with our fights.
> 
> But that's assuming she even desires me anymore, she's made it clear she's only giving us this chance for our daughter. No indication of desire or affection, more anger that I 'played' hot/cold with her.


I'm sure she does desire you still. She's probably keeping herself guarded.

Don't rush in to anything you aren't ready to. 9 months of celibacy, what's one more day?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

One more day of depressingly plucking my twanger

Been working out heavily recently though, and still sore... but hopefully it'll up my chances


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> One more day of depressingly plucking my twanger
> 
> Been working out heavily recently though, and still sore... but hopefully it'll up my chances


One more day won't kill you  You'll be fine, don't worry.

Yeah I've been hitting the gym 4 times a week, the DOMs is killing me, but I feel so good and already upping my lift weights


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh yeah it feels good doesn't it? 

And its not really one more day, more like... endless days never knowing when you'll get lucky. Meh we'll see tomorrow


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Heh yeah it feels good doesn't it?
> 
> And its not really one more day, more like... endless days never knowing when you'll get lucky. Meh we'll see tomorrow


Yeah it does feel good, I enjoy it anyway. I used to have a very physically intensive job and I was quite strong and muscular. 4 years ago I started working office jobs and became weak and lost all my tone.

You will see tomorrow indeed, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. I can only imagine how tough 9 months would be, I've been celibate for too long and I'm nowhere near the 9 month mark.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I really don't feel like going out tonight but I made a commitment *sigh*

I'm coughing, eyes and nose is red, hair is a mess, body is sore. Oh well


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

If you are going out with your wife, I would suggest going regardless of your illness. It will show her that you are serious about working on your M.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> *I'm seeing her tomorrow though, hopefully I can keep the blood in my brain and not my twanger. Might whack off beforehand just in case though. *sigh**





> *One more day of depressingly plucking my twanger*


Yeah, better choke the chicken, never forget that video you threw on here yrs ago...

Just checking in...I'm sorry RD, I am finding your posts terribly funny somehow .......don't get mad at me... for making light...

I kinda dig your sense of humor in just speaking it like it is...as much as you are going through... this is how me & husband are, lay it out in all it's glory.... if you ever get back with her... she ought to find quite the amusement in your struggle here *and feel "on top of the world" *....you wasn't with anyone else...and saved it for her... this speaks volumes to how you truly feel about her...I know I would....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well guys, still celibate, disappointment really. Although she did warm up abit tonight compared to last week, well after I was rather transparent with her at least; in regards to what's been happening and how I feel about us. She didn't reply much really, still cold in that regard, but she's friendlier at least. I have a feeling she still doesn't trust me, and that didn't really put me in high spirits.

Due to her lack of emotional depth tonight... meh I dunno, I was thinking of initiating, especially with the thunderstorm which I could have easily used to excuse rather close physical contact and perhaps some action but meh. Guess it just wasn't the right time. Sad really... I don't think I can keep this up though if she doesn't return how I feel.

It seriously seems like I'm chasing after a woman who after being hurt by me has cut me out of her life and only decided to give R a shot because of our daughter. Meh, guess this is vulnerability, and quite frankly, it's lame. Tempted to just end everything again.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well guys, still celibate, disappointment really. Although she did warm up abit tonight compared to last week, well after I was rather transparent with her at least; in regards to what's been happening and how I feel about us. She didn't reply much really, still cold in that regard, but she's friendlier at least. I have a feeling she still doesn't trust me, and that didn't really put me in high spirits.
> 
> Due to her lack of emotional depth tonight... meh I dunno, I was thinking of initiating, especially with the thunderstorm which I could have easily used to excuse rather close physical contact and perhaps some action but meh. Guess it just wasn't the right time. Sad really... I don't think I can keep this up though if she doesn't return how I feel.
> 
> It seriously seems like I'm chasing after a woman who after being hurt by me has cut me out of her life and only decided to give R a shot because of our daughter. Meh, guess this is vulnerability, and quite frankly, it's lame. Tempted to just end everything again.


Be strong dude, stick with it. It will be worth it. She will begin to trust you again, she just needs time.

Don't throw away all you've done to get this far. Many of us here would kill for the opportunity that you have. Don't waste it .


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You've come too far to break and run now. You are seeing changes in a positive direction, right? 

What woman with self-respecting woman would jump back into a relationship without caution with a man who said he did not love her? You have to give it to her. She is not as weak as you once thought. 

Her loyalty and love is too valuable to treat lightly. You attracted a good woman. You could not do that unless you have the same qualities. Don't let impatience ruin things. 

Put yourself in her shoes. She might think you are playing her and she is waiting to see if you are sincere. If you run now you will lose her forever. 

She is very unlikely to trust you ever again. You can do what you feel but just remember that.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

She is very unlikely to trust you ever again. You can do what you feel but just remember that.[/QUOTE]

I don't agree with that statement. Trust can be rebuilt, just as love can.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

tracyishere said:


> She is very unlikely to trust you ever again. You can do what you feel but just remember that.


I don't agree with that statement. Trust can be rebuilt, just as love can.[/QUOTE]

I meant if he gets impatient now and ends R. She is just starting to thaw ever so slowly. The rudiments of trust are growing. Any vacillating on his part will ruin everything. He has his chance now to build trust. 

Trust can be rebuilt but the opportunities are not endless. If he runs now or she stops thawing, it might be better for both of them to find someone else to bestow trust.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't agree with that statement. Trust can be rebuilt, just as love can.


I meant if he gets impatient now and ends R. She is just starting to thaw ever so slowly. The rudiments of trust are growing. Any vacillating on his part will ruin everything. He has his chance now to build trust. 

Trust can be rebuilt but the opportunities are not endless. If he runs now or she stops thawing, it might be better for both of them to find someone else to bestow trust.[/QUOTE]

In that sense I do agree. If he wimps out now he'll lose her for sure. She is hanging on by a thread.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It just feels like a one way street atm tis all... =/

What am I supposed to do with her now? I can't give her anymore affirmation if she can't even accept it. She wants to guard her heart sure, but give me a bloody chance! *sigh*


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> It just feels like a one way street atm tis all... =/
> 
> What am I supposed to do with her now? I can't give her anymore affirmation if she can't even accept it. She wants to guard her heart sure, but give me a bloody chance! *sigh*


This is where you need to be strong RD. You need to give without receiving. Love without love.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

At the cost of my dignity? This is threading on dangerous grounds now


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> At the cost of my dignity? This is threading on dangerous grounds now


If you feel like you lose dignity by expressing your love and appreciation for your wife then you have issues IMO.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's a one way street, what do you expect? For me to smother her? Pffft


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> It's a one way street, what do you expect? For me to smother her? Pffft


I don't expect anything. She does. And I don't think she wants fake affection. She wants you to be real.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Right, so having been loyal to her since marriage including seperation, choosing her over anyone else, owning up to all my mistakes, forgiving her for all of hers, fully explaining to her why I said what I did, giving her WOA, attempting to give her PT... is all fake

Meh I'm done with trying to prove myself to her, she either believes me or she doesn't. But I'm done with one-way street WOAs, biting my tongue from now on. I'm just going to do MC with her and play it cool until V day next year and if things don't change then, "I love you, but it's obvious now that it's one-sided" and I'll divorce her.

Meh


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Right, so having been loyal to her since marriage including seperation, choosing her over anyone else, owning up to all my mistakes, forgiving her for all of hers, fully explaining to her why I said what I did, giving her WOA, attempting to give her PT... is all fake
> 
> Meh I'm done with trying to prove myself to her, she either believes me or she doesn't. But I'm done with one-way street WOAs, biting my tongue from now on. I'm just going to do MC with her and play it cool until V day next year and if things don't change then, "I love you, but it's obvious now that it's one-sided" and I'll divorce her.
> 
> Meh


Cool it mr. I didn't say it was fake. I said be real. Don't become someone who you are not. You know things don't happen overnight. You know it takes time to heal old wounds. You said yourself she was starting to become less edgy. This is good. You've got momentum. Why stop now?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I think you need to get laid! Hahaha. Grumpy pants!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

tracyishere said:


> I think you need to get laid! Hahaha. Grumpy pants!


No sh-t...

-.-


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> No sh-t...
> 
> -.-


Oh I could make you so mad right now and it would humour me so much....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

That just aint cool, you don't take advantage of a celibate man's frustration


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> That just aint cool, you don't take advantage of a celibate man's frustration


You forget RD that I do everything rude


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

-.-

And that is all


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> -.-
> 
> And that is all


 I also am your #1 fan


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

...

I don't know whether to be flattered or freaked out >.<


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> ...
> 
> I don't know whether to be flattered or freaked out >.<


Good. I got you where I want you then.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You are horrible


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> You are horrible


awe... Don't cry. I'll make fun of you more tomorrow I promise.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't cry, I make little girls named Tracy cry instead -.-


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I don't cry, I make little girls named Tracy cry instead -.-


The only time I cry from you is when I am laughing so hard at you tears run down my legs.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Aye, I'm terrible like that


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

MC today... *sigh*

Yesterday she was just as cold, went with her and our daughter for a lunch with the church. I have to stop going for a while again, got into another stupid religious debate. This one guy believes a human's ability to love our children is from God, while I believe it's human nature and instinct to love and care for our youth, just as it's the same with animals. How can someone even deny that?! :slap:

Bah!

Anyways, hopefully no dramas today. Been horribly depressed recently, knowing she's only doing this for our daughter and how I mean practically nothing to her atm.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Random I think you are doing very well. You are holding your temper and hanging in there. It may not seem like progress but every time you meet and stay consistent gives her faith that you will not reject her again. 

Do you think it's time to come up with a plan for moving ahead? How about discussing it in one of your MC sessions? Perhaps a sequence of planned activities that, if it goes well, will establish a connection.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, that was the plan, to reconnect... but we just had a session, and wife seemed content with our (stagnant) progress. I've voiced my discontent but she's not happy about my apparent 'impatience'. It's proving my suspicions correct that she's not really into R, she just wants to do what she reckons feels is 'the right thing'... pffft! 

I'm taking the eggs out of the basket as time goes by, I'm not going to invest any more emotions into this. But hey, have to keep my word, so I'll stay celibate until V day and initiate the divorce proceedings, as it's apparent she won't do it herself.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

tracyishere said:


> If you feel like you lose dignity by expressing your love and appreciation for your wife then you have issues IMO.


I agree, showing your wife love without receiving it takes a huge amount of strength, commitment, generosity and well.... love.

If those qualities lower your dignity, I guess only a$$holes have dignity.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Right, so I should be at her feet then?

This is what you're suggesting -> Smothering her

Results:
- She'll lose respect for me, and I won't blame her because I'm not respecting MYSELF by smothering her
- Even if we do reconcile based on that it'll be by HER terms, which means:
* Everything that has happened will be blamed on me
* She will no longer be encouraged to take responsibility for her actions
* We will end up right back where we started pre-seperation, if not worse

I can't believe you're suggesting such a thing


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Right, so I should be at her feet then?
> 
> This is what you're suggesting -> Smothering her
> 
> ...


Where did he suggest that?


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I only read that he thinks expressing your love for someone can be difficult. But necessary.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh

Sorry, I'm just getting increasingly annoyed/grumpy/edgy about this whole thing, and the L word is starting to make me sick... plus I have to put up with all of this until Feb next year, and left behind a hot 'laundry lady' for my wife who is playing ice queen.

Besides, since V-day our communication channels have been bleh, at one time we used to chat/text each other everyday even during the early stages of seperation as we were still somewhat 'connected'... now it's meh


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Don't blame you. It's not a very nice position to be in. You are doing all you can to meet her needs and are getting nothing in return. 

How long can you go without feeling loved?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't need to feel loved when hardened, so unless I'm vulnerable to someone (in which case is my wife) I can easily go without. I've done so for most of my life.

But in the case of my wife... if I don't feel loved then I'll harden up and move on. Which is what I'm resisting in the hopes of her softening up but it sure doesn't look like she'll melt the ice on her end. So meh

Doesn't help that I'm still celibate and edging to ram anything in the vicinity at the moment, part of me is very tempted to meet up with laundry lady again but chances are she's moved on by now too. Such an idiot I am.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm getting edgy, I need to end my celibacy... what are my options as of this point?

- Slim chance at getting back with "laundry lady", consequences will result in forfeiting this whole reconciliation attempt nor do I have any interest in lying to my wife
- Wall of ice between my wife and I as a result of 9 month long seperation and celibacy, with me having rejected her countless times to the point she no longer believes a word I say

Attempts so far
- Reassurance of my love for her, result: She doesn't believe or trust me
- Rebreaking physical barrier with non-sexual touches, result: cold and unresponsive, with her being uninterested in anything

Attempts in question:
- "Forcefully" taking her, in the past this yielded positive results but my gut tells me she will not respond well to this
- Physical seduction and sexual flirts/teases, a possible route but even if it's successful it may jeopardise her progress in learning to appreciate non-sexual love

But as of right now, I'm feeling selfish, I need to RAM something and soon. I'm going out of my mind!!!! Bah! *sigh* Meh, think I'll just go back to choking my chicken and see if I feel better in the morning... if not, I may have to break


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I'm getting edgy, I need to end my celibacy... what are my options as of this point?
> 
> - Slim chance at getting back with "laundry lady", consequences will result in forfeiting this whole reconciliation attempt nor do I have any interest in lying to my wife
> - Wall of ice between my wife and I as a result of 9 month long seperation and celibacy, with me having rejected her countless times to the point she no longer believes a word I say
> ...


I got nothing.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm fked


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I'm fked


Quite the opposite really


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not funny -.-


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You know what's bad though? Before all this and before I rejected her attempt at initiating R, she was praying to her god for some miracle and even getting our daughter to pray for 'daddy to come home' as well... yet when this "miracle" happened, it's too late, so now she's being a b-tch about it

Pffft... Oh well... 3 more months till divorce. Have to keep acting until then


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RD Sometimes I think you need a good shake. 

Stop it! Just stop living in the past. Switch your mind over to the present. Work on the here and now to build a better future. 

And what's this about acting? I thought you said you had become a better man? Of course she is not going to believe a dang thing you say or do if it is all BS anyway. 

Grrrr....


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Where's your strength RD? You love this woman. Man up and do what you need to do .

Don't blow this chance.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My changes ain't BS but I'm holding back a part of me that just wants to cut loose due to her rather lack of interest in reconciliation - hence the "acting"; playing cool until D day. I'm not the type to place myself where I'm not wanted, especially when I know I'm wanted elsewhere. So I'm restraining myself at the moment.

It's one thing to be vulnerable, to be able to affirm one's love for another. But it's another thing to give one-sided love completely disregarding my own needs in the process. No thanks.

Do what I need to do? What can I do? We're stuck in limbo


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> My changes ain't BS but I'm holding back a part of me that just wants to cut loose due to her rather lack of interest in reconciliation - hence the "acting"; playing cool until D day. I'm not the type to place myself where I'm not wanted, especially when I know I'm wanted elsewhere. So I'm restraining myself at the moment.
> 
> It's one thing to be vulnerable, to be able to affirm one's love for another. But it's another thing to give one-sided love completely disregarding my own needs in the process. No thanks.
> 
> Do what I need to do? What can I do? We're stuck in limbo


Just ride it out man, it's all you can do right now. Be there for her when she needs you, give her space when she doesn't. She'll warm up, just give her time. These problems don't go away over night.

I know it's difficult, believe me. I've been there before years ago. I'd like to say I came out of the other side successfully, but we're separated again now, heading for D. This time, it's permanent, there's no going back for me. I'd kill for the chance you have though.

Just keep on at it mate, you're doing the right thing.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's becoming apparent that she no longer needs me


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> It's becoming apparent that she no longer needs me


Do you want her to _need_ you? That's a recipe for disaster.

What you want is for her to _want_ you. What have you done to build attraction?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Of course not, I did reject her after all with one of the reasons being I felt she was too needy

As for attraction, we've been together so long already she either has it or she doesn't, in which case it seems that she no longer does.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Of course not, I did reject her after all with one of the reasons being I felt she was too needy
> 
> As for attraction, we've been together so long already she either has it or she doesn't, in which case it seems that she no longer does.


Attraction isn't a given, you can make yourself more attractive to her, emotionally and physically. You just need to read up on it, and then figure out how.

One of the key problems in the breakdown of a relationship is loss of attraction. You have to maintain it just like every other aspect.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm still confident, physically attractive and I've been working out so no worries there, but becoming emotionally attractive? 

I have no intent of changing who I am just to attract someone, not to mention my wife already knows me by now so if she's no longer emotionally attracted then so be it - I haven't changed much, either than aging/getting a tad wiser over the years

Besides considering the quality of my recent date I'm more than confident in myself in being attractive and have no intent of changing who I am

I'm me, and if she wants to fk off she can, if only she womans up and does it instead of stringing me along taking advantage of my good graces. I took a risk with this whole vulnerability thing, so looks like this is the consequence of my actions. Meh


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I guess I'm being unrealistic though... it's funny how the grass is always greener on the other side. When I was with my date, I compared her to my wife, sure she's drop dead gorgeous but my wife and I have a long history, we were once best friends, have a daughter together, and her quality is proven. But now...

I wonder what it would have been like if I spent more time with the lovely "laundry lady", maybe we could have hit off, maybe she could have been acceptable as a potential stepmother, and maybe her quality although unproven may turn out to match or even exceed my wife's, not to mention we can walk down the street and be "socially acceptable" as a couple...

But yet I chose my wife, and this is what I get... hence I'm frustrated at all this. Love... pffft, it sucks when it's one-sided


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I guess I'm being unrealistic though... it's funny how the grass is always greener on the other side. When I was with my date, I compared her to my wife, sure she's drop dead gorgeous but my wife and I have a long history, we were once best friends, have a daughter together, and her quality is proven. But now...
> 
> I wonder what it would have been like if I spent more time with the lovely "laundry lady", maybe we could have hit off, maybe she could have been acceptable as a potential stepmother, and maybe her quality although unproven may turn out to match or even exceed my wife's, not to mention we can walk down the street and be "socially acceptable" as a couple...
> 
> But yet I chose my wife, and this is what I get... hence I'm frustrated at all this. Love... pffft, it sucks when it's one-sided


It doesn't seem very one-sided to me. She may not be showing it, but the love is there, otherwise she wouldn't be trying after everything. Even if she says it's just for your D.

Life could have been great if you'd taken things further with "laundry lady" - but if you had, you'd be thinking the exact same things about how things could have been with your wife.

You did choose you wife, you chose her because you love her, you want her, and you have honour and pride in the fact that she is your wife. Focus on the good reasons for the choices you make.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She made it clear she's only decided to give us another shot for our daughter's sake, add that to her being an ice queen recently it sure feels very one-sided to me.

Though yes, I should stop thinking about what ifs... just, meh


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> She made it clear she's only decided to give us another shot for our daughter's sake, add that to her being an ice queen recently it sure feels very one-sided to me.
> 
> Though yes, I should stop thinking about what ifs... just, meh


Words are cheap. Focus on her actions. The action that she is willing to try and R is what you should be looking it.

What ifs are awful, I always torture myself with them .


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Mr. You are focussing on your penis more than your reconciliation. You cannot have fun with one without the other. 

Therefore put your energy back into creating a great relationship and stop trying to get in your wife's pants.

It will happen when your relationship is strong enough to let it happen.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

tracyishere said:


> Mr. You are focussing on your penis more than your reconciliation. You cannot have fun with one without the other.
> 
> Therefore put your energy back into creating a great relationship and stop trying to get in your wife's pants.
> 
> It will happen when your relationship is strong enough to let it happen.


:iagree:

You can go bang some cheap skank, or you can put the effort in with your wife and take each day as it comes.

When you do finally get physical with someone, which would be the preferable and most fulfilling option?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My submarine has long been stranded at sea and my seamen are in serious need of shore leave... they are threatening to mutiny! They wish to dock at the most welcoming shore, a shore that me, the captain, decided to reject... instead heading for hostile waters!

Tis a disaster! BAH!

*sigh* And for the record, no, "laundry lady" isn't some cheap skank. She's a decent sort, and probably will be an opportunity lost that I will regret forever considering the pace of this semi-reconciliation. I just hope this is all worth it. 

For now I'm just ignoring my wife since MC because I have no idea how to even deal with her when nothing I say means sh-t to her.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Bury the treasure with your hands. She'll be searching for it later. XXX marks the spot


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My crew doesn't want the treasure buried, they want SHORE LEAVE so they can spend their share! >.<

Meh

Funny really, I spent most of my marriage complaining about too much sex and right now I could sure use it!


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> My crew doesn't want the treasure buried, they want SHORE LEAVE so they can spend their share! >.<
> 
> Meh
> 
> Funny really, I spent most of my marriage complaining about too much sex and right now I could sure use it!


So it's true then. You don't know what you've got until it's gone.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh

Oh well


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## missingmylife (Apr 16, 2013)

So I dont quite get it....do you want your wife back or not?

That's what you need to figure out. Do you want your wife/family back together. If yes, work towards that. Resentment and hurt build up over time. Women are much different then men. Their emotions run much deeper. Men, we are simple...which is why we are typically "fixers" and want the issue to be resolved quickly and to be "fixed".


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well sure, if things are going to be better, despite coming forward with R I don't want her to have the impression that I've 'raised the white flag' in regards to our issues, I know I've done some seriously hurtful things however I don't want to end up reconciled if I'm going to be a doormat considering she's done her share as well. 

My daughter is strong and as long as our co-parenting arrangements hold up she'll be fine no matter what we decide besides she's gotten used to having her parents living apart.

I just don't know what to do at this point.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> My submarine has long been stranded at sea and my seamen are in serious need of shore leave... they are threatening to mutiny! They wish to dock at the most welcoming shore, a shore that me, the captain, decided to reject... instead heading for hostile waters!
> 
> Tis a disaster! BAH!
> 
> ...


Uhh sorry, should have explained - I wasn't calling "laundry lady" a cheap skank, I was just being general.

If you don't know what to do at this point, the best thing to do is nothing, until you do know.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

WantWifeBack said:


> If you don't know what to do at this point, the best thing to do is nothing, until you do know.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

>.<

Bah! I just wanna RAAAAAAAAM something! Alright thats it, next time I see her I'm going ahead with sexual touches/flirts/teases, fk it

She'll probably reject me outright and much stronger but it beats this limbo


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> >.<
> 
> Bah! I just wanna RAAAAAAAAM something! Alright thats it, next time I see her I'm going ahead with sexual touches/flirts/teases, fk it
> 
> She'll probably reject me outright and much stronger but it beats this limbo


Don't come on too strong dude. But be a little playful with her, see where it goes


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not to worry, I'll save her the avalanche of seamen until the very end


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Not to worry, I'll save her the avalanche of seamen until the very end


Just be careful not to drown her in it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> I just don't know what to do at this point.


What do you want to do?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Isn't it obvious?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Isn't it obvious?


No, because you change your mind every 5 minutes .


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, the one thing still consistent is my frustration at celibacy!


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well, the one thing still consistent is my frustration at celibacy!


I know how that feels mate. It won't be forever though .

I fully expect a massive "hallelujah" (no pun intended) post when it does happen.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Well, the one thing still consistent is my frustration at celibacy!


Me, too. It's been a looong time.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

WantWifeBack said:


> I know how that feels mate. It won't be forever though .
> 
> *I fully expect a massive "hallelujah" (no pun intended) post when it does happen*.


Amen!


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Me, too. It's been a looong time.


Me too, like 2 and a half months!  I hate to think what 9 months of celibacy would be like, hopefully it won't go on that long


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

WantWifeBack said:


> Me too, like 2 and a half months!


2 months is chump change to me. LOL.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

WantWifeBack said:


> Me too, like 2 and a half months!  I hate to think what 9 months of celibacy would be like, hopefully it won't go on that long


Is this the celibacy support group? (Slowly walking towards the exit).


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

tracyishere said:


> Is this the celibacy support group? (Slowly walking towards the exit).


"Hi I'm WWB and I have been celibate for 2.5 months. If I don't get some soon, I think I'll end up in a psychiatric hospital, humping the padded walls. Please everyone, feel free to share, there's coffee at the back."



> 2 months is chump change to me. LOL.


It's plenty long enough for me (that's what she said ) as a man in his sexual prime.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

WantWifeBack said:


> It's plenty long enough for me (that's what she said ) as a man in his sexual prime.


Well apparently I'm also in my sexual prime at 32.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Hi I'm Tracy I've been celibate for 5 days. I have already humped the chair in the waiting area and played naughty nurse in the stirrups down the hall....by myself...it's not as easy as it sounds. Lol. 

Do you supply dildos?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Aren't you married, Tracy? No excuses if so.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Aren't you married, Tracy? No excuses if so.


My daughter is in the hospital. I've been with her for 5 days.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your daughter 

You can have sex when you go home.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Sorry to hear about your daughter
> 
> You can have sex when you go home.


Oh boy! We will.... My h is scared. He should be. Right RD?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hehe don't hurt him, Tracy!


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Hehe don't hurt him, Tracy!


All this doctor and nurse talk has Made us both randy... Should be lots of fun


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## missingmylife (Apr 16, 2013)

I am on month 9 also. Interestingly enough, its not worth throwing aay the chance of reconciliation to be honest. You need to learn to control your emotions and desires rather than acting out on them. Seriously....it sounds like you have an opportunity for R (read actions, not words)....and you might throw it away because of a few extra months of no sex? What is going to happen when you hit 70,80,90? Sorry man...but get some control over your desires. 

Dont get me wrong, I would love sex right about now but I wouldnt throw away all of the work being done and (hopefully) progress being made.

If you get R....it will come...and it will be worth it if you truly desire your family being back together. If you want a quick fix....abandon working On R...tell your wife youre done...move on.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

She's cold non-sexually and cold sexually with very little progress made. If I feel there is progress I wouldn't be so frustrated. I'm not reading words I'm reading action, sure she may be more friendly than hostile compared to last week but meh - that doesn't mean there's progress, as I wasn't hostile when I rejected her the last time.

I'm controlling my desires but voicing out my frustration at the same time, we have until V-day next year which by then if things don't change I'm not waiting any longer especially when I'm finally able to file for divorce and get it over and done with. Yet I'm still rather pissed off at this wait considering having to lose my recent date who isn't so easily replaced due to my pickiness.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> She's cold non-sexually and cold sexually with very little progress made. If I feel there is progress I wouldn't be so frustrated. I'm not reading words I'm reading action, sure she may be more friendly than hostile compared to last week but meh - that doesn't mean there's progress, as I wasn't hostile when I rejected her the last time.
> 
> I'm controlling my desires but voicing out my frustration at the same time, we have until V-day next year which by then if things don't change I'm not waiting any longer especially when I'm finally able to file for divorce and get it over and done with. Yet I'm still rather pissed off at this wait considering having to lose my recent date who isn't so easily replaced due to my pickiness.


I'm sorry RD. This has to be very difficult for you. I am glad you use this place to vent your frustrations. That is an excellent way to deal with it. 

I just have to say though that every time you mention laundry lady I think of how you were going to blow pubs in her face and that just makes me laugh.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well I didn't expect her to be interested - I thought she was being rude!!!  I hate starers, even if she's pretty/hot, bleh!

Wife never stared, at least she was POLITE -.-

Meh, oh well...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meetup with my wife this week, not looking forward to it. I've stopped my flirting/teasing this weekend, stuck to friends/business, took my daughter out. If things don't work out by next week I'm letting her know I'm tired of trying when it's all one-sided, and if she decides to go "see? I knew you were full of sh-t" so be it, she can think whatever the fk she wants.

I'm done with her
And having lost 'laundry lady' as well, I think I'm done with relationships for life... FK IT ALL


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Meetup with my wife this week, not looking forward to it. I've stopped my flirting/teasing this weekend, stuck to friends/business, took my daughter out. If things don't work out by next week I'm letting her know I'm tired of trying when it's all one-sided, and if she decides to go "see? I knew you were full of sh-t" so be it, she can think whatever the fk she wants.
> 
> I'm done with her
> And having lost 'laundry lady' as well, I think I'm done with relationships for life... FK IT ALL


Celibate for life!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, lessons learnt, I've met my soulmate and fked it up. This is the consequence of my actions. She's a woman of quality, but she's not mine anymore nor can she give me what I'm looking for. I've made too many mistakes and it's obvious we're not going anywhere. I'm tired of hoping, waiting for miracles. I was raised never to wait for miracles.

What I'm looking for nowadays is unrealistic, a simple life, a simple family. I have achieved a legitimate life and financial freedom. But it's becoming obvious that achieving a stable family is next to impossible. Sure, I've learnt from my mistakes, but some aspects of my personality I can never change, I can never wait forever or keep holding on something when I've already lost it, it's too ingrained in my personality.

And sure "laundry lady" would have been cool, probably only for 6 months or less, until I find aspects of her which I won't like. Not to mention she's met me when I'm already at my prime financially, my wife was there when I was nothing but an ex-crim working sh-t part-time jobs just to keep a roof over my head. Would she have given me a chance like my wife did? Pffft, I know she wouldn't have, she's not that type.

That's normally how it goes, my standards have gone too high. I'm not made for relationships, my NSA friends were right, I'm not LTR material. I shouldn't be hoping for something that I will never have and even if I have it I'll probably fk it up like I did. Sure I've learnt my lesson, but I'm now in a perilous position. I will NOT bend knee to anyone. I can apologise, but I will NEVER bend knee to anyone. If that's what she expects me to do, despite the sh-t she pulled as well, FORGET IT.

I'm done with this. Just put my daughter to sleep and she's the only good thing that has come out of all of this. As for celibacy? Pffft, I will just have to let my heart sink and embrace the fact that I will never amount to anything more than a lay. Not to mention that's how my wife treated me anyway, I worked my ass of to maintain her rich lifestyle and she never appreciated it, all she wanted was sex three times a fking day.

That's all I'm fking good for. I'm done with this.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bah... just fking depressed today


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Bah... just fking depressed today


No kidding. Your desire for her is quite evident though. So tell me, were you raised to be a quitter?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I was raised to gamble wisely, when to go all-in, when to raise, and when to fold. And when the odds are just not in my favor. I play poker, NOT roulette for a reason.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I was raised to gamble wisely, when to go all-in, when to raise, and when to fold. And when the odds are just not in my favor. I play poker, NOT roulette for a reason.


Sounds to me like you have already folded before the first flop.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The way I see it, right now I'm holding a two and a three, and holding out for something on the river. So fk it!

If I had a better hand sure, even pocket twos I might even call, but no way with this hand.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> The way I see it, right now I'm holding a two and a three, and holding out for something on the river. So fk it!
> 
> If I had a better hand sure, even pocket twos I might even call, but no way with this hand.


But you are already all in, so why fold?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Since when was I already all-in? I've raised a fair amount but even if I lose this one I'm not off the table yet.

Besides, I don't see how you guys can even think that she's giving me a chance simply because she has some moral obligation to do it for our daughter and due to respecting our marital vows yet returns zero affection towards me. 

I flirt, she ignores, I touch, she tenses, I make a joke, she smiles and looks away. She's fking over it and I don't blame her, I'm not chasing after the river. I'll lose my bet but who cares.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Since when was I already all-in? I've raised a fair amount but even if I lose this one I'm not off the table yet.
> 
> Besides, I don't see how you guys can even think that she's giving me a chance simply because she has some moral obligation to do it for our daughter and due to respecting our marital vows yet returns zero affection towards me.
> 
> I flirt, she ignores, I touch, she tenses, I make a joke, she smiles and looks away. She's fking over it and I don't blame her, I'm not chasing after the river. I'll lose my bet but who cares.


You are all in because you have everything to lose and everything to win.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I made a mistake... but at least I no longer have to worry about 'what if' considering now I've realised she wasn't kidding when she told me that she would be alright after I rejected her that time. Guess I got what was coming to me. Pffft

She told me a few times that I'm not the only one who can harden their heart, that I should 'count my blessings' ha! Well, she wins the bet, but she ain't got my wallet. She can take my house but her fingers ain't anywhere near my business so she can go fk herself.

I'm fking p-ssed off, frustrated, depressed, annoyed, and it doesn't help that I've endured a stupid 9-month celibacy rejecting other women for the stupid reason thinking that I deserved better when I DON'T. I'm NSA material, not LTR material, that's all I'll ever be. FK IT

BAH

*sigh* Nevermind me... I have to lay out my vomit somewhere, might as well do it here... PFFFT I hate relationships, I hate marriage, I HATE THIS CRAP TO HELL

... ah, feel a bit better now... BAH!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

tracyishere said:


> You are all in because you have everything to lose and everything to win.


Meh

This week is the last week I'm sticking it out, otherwise I'm cutting my losses and moving on


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Meh
> 
> This week is the last week I'm sticking it out, otherwise I'm cutting my losses and moving on


Well you have the right to make that choice. Whatever you decide the people of TAM are here for you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Just sad really... even I've never been this cold when rejecting her
Oh well


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Just sad really... even I've never been this cold when rejecting her
> Oh well


She's probably just trying to protect herself.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Of course she is, and she'll prove herself right if she keeps this up


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Of course she is, and she'll prove herself right if she keeps this up


Those are fighting words....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

And?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bah you know what sucks too? Not only is my wife being cold, I'm having an issue at work where my business is already running by itself and having delegated operations I'm pretty much in a position where my duties are very minimal. To employ a GM in forfill my position is not only a waste of money but my main problem is that none of my senior staff wish to be promoted internally despite such an opportunity.

"Don't want the responsibility"

If my divorce is finalised I will be willing to lower my personal income as not only has my wife inherited the majority of our savings for our daughter I will only be looking out for 1 person; me. The business is already established and is now partnered with many hospitality groups for functions and events which has been the real money makers of my industry. It's a fking cash machine and none of them want the responsibility of keeping it running.

And that's another thing, I want to move state but I can't not just because of work but because of my daughter too, if I want to take her with me it's going to be a custody battle. So here I am, stuck in this backend sh-thole of a city where the people here seriously sh-t me. Not to mention; how many quality women are in this city? I've found ONE, ONE out of countless women I've met here over 10 years, and that includes this year.

My wife enjoyed having zero competition amongst the horrid quality of ladies in Sydney due to her down to earth, non-materialistic nature, proven loyalty and depth of her personality. But I've lost her so what now? I'm SO FKED and I CAN'T GO ANYWHERE


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh* I just need to vent


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Or since I'm stuck here, after my divorce, guess I can do what my old man does, IMPORT! Ha! Dirty old bugga...

Meh


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Part of me is feeling like breaking down, but I'm too proud (and maybe too arrogant?) for that. I just don't think a man should be on his knees, is that arrogance? Bah!


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Part of me is feeling like breaking down, but I'm too proud (and maybe too arrogant?) for that. I just don't think a man should be on his knees, is that arrogance? Bah!


Maybe you will feel better if you let yourself do that...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Haha! Not a chance
I'll let my insanity take me all the way to the grave instead!

I'm GOING INSANE! WOOHOO!!!
Alright now I got a headache >.<


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

You're cute


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't know why I'm persisting, perhaps just to give myself more ammunition to ditch her on our "date" this week... I send her a nice affirming msg, she doesn't reply. I ask her about our daughter, she replies in no time at all - so its obvious she's not busy enough that she can't respond to my SMSs

It really sucks to have your affections unreturned, yet I'm sticking it out since I initiated this whole reconciliation crap. Then sticking it out more, only to be ignored again. If she dares accuse me of playing "rollercoaster" this week after she's been so cold to me then at least now I have justification to be one. She can enjoy her sweet revenge on me but by the end of this week, it's over.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Since removing sex, she's had to cope, and its obvious she doesn't need me for sex no more, and without it, is there love? Of course not, guess she never even loved me anyway, just wanted what I could give her - sex and cash. Now she's got her fill, I'm nothing but a chewed up piece of meat to her who she can poke and humiliate, because I'm letting her - by being vulnerable.

Fking b-tch really, I can't wait till our "date" where I can tell her to FK off and end this ridicolous attempt at reconciliation.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Can't believe I let go of a hottie for this CRAP! Selfish b-tch, she should have done us both the favor of telling me to FK off when I initiated reconciliation instead she's keeping me hanging and although she doesn't want me she doesn't want anyone to have me either. I broke a good girl's heart in the process, because of stupid love. Stupid... stupid love.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

FK IM SO ANGRY I FEEL LIKE ENDING IT RIGHT HERE AND NOW

But no, now is not the right time... but soon, very soon. Patience... as a ending like this has to be savored...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Actually, I think I had enough, we've lived apart since November last year, even though we've only truly been seperated on V-day. As long as she checks 'no' on question 18 on our divorce application we don't have to wait till V-day.

On our "date", if she shows no sign of progress, I'm laying the papers in her face for her to sign. Surprise *****! Divorce this week in the midst of reconciliation and MC. Rollercoaster ey? Thats what you get b-tch for pushing me around when I'm at my weakest and most vulnerable!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

... *sigh* she doesn't deserve that... no

No fk it, I may hate her guts now but I can't do that to her... I'll go for the date, and give her the papers another time, not both at once. That's too cruel... she's still the mother of my child and has been cooperative all year, I can't be an a$$ to her like that just because of my pain

FK MY TEMPER

*sigh*


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Funny... I know I don't deserve her love at all and quite frankly my wife is justified for her revenge breaking my heart, but it hurt. It hurt real bad, I've been trying to cloud it with humor and laugh it away but it persisted.

To the point I came home today, and yelled at the walls. I've always kept my composure at work but once I got home I needed to lash out. I'm even determined now to end my marriage as soon as possible if my feelings continue to be unrecipocated. Then I realised something - I don't get hurt, I get even. That's always how it has been for me, I lash out, I fight back, I don't take it and 'turn the other cheek'. I calmed myself down however, thanks to venting on this forum

However, as I printed out my divorce papers I just felt like breaking down. So I tried, remembered what my IC mentioned about being 'blocked', I wanted to let it out, as some form of pain relief.. I tried to cry. Put on the most depressing breakup song I found on youtube, and hey, my eyes watered - to hell with my pride. And so, I let go a few drops, and that was it, and I feel a bit better now. But THAT'S IT? I'm convinced that I'm about to lose the love of my life yet that's it? Is that all that I had for her? Does this mean I never really loved her after all? Meh

Or is it just not me?

Or am I just too hardened? I let go of my pride and that was it... or am I just as my IC claimed -> that there's something blocking me? Meh I was raised not to cry as a man, but to hell with that, yet even when I try to, I can't let it out... instead I still feel like lashing out in anger and disgust. Am I fked?

Or do I just need an even more pathetically depressing song than this one?
Keith Urban - Tonight I Wanna Cry - YouTube


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

You need to grieve. But that does not mean you need to cry. Grieving is a different process for everyone. Anger is one way to grieve. Why not just let yourself be angry at the situation. Not at her. Not at yourself. 

Go release some anger, workout, go punch a bag at the gym, yell and holler...all good and healthy releases.

Peace


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## Roma (Apr 18, 2012)

Hi Random, Iv been around for a while and following your thread but haven't commented as I didn't think that I could give you better advise than you were being given already. Just wanted to make a suggestion as I thought it might be useful. Why don't you try to speak to her about this? I mean you don't need to break down in front of her but just be clear about how it all looks to you when you don't see any progress from her. Just be frank and ask if she has a reason for it. Communication and honesty always helps a situation and you never know but if she is also honest about why she is being so guarded and how she would like things to progress you may understand her better, You may think you know what her reasons are but she may be able to explain better which will help with your empathy and if she also sees how YOU feel about things then she may also want to work on her part. I really hope things work out for you as It's obvious you love your wife and are trying your hardest. Good Luck mate!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@Tracy

Cause isn't crying what normal people do? lol
I'm just trying to lessen the pain without lashing out, anger at the situation not anger at her and me? I still feel like lashing out at her knowing she's played her part in it, and at me for being so stupid

@Roma

That's the plan, as I've already tried to speak to her about it but she has not graced me with any satisfactory answers. She doesn't want to work on her part - it seems with me coming forward with R she thinks she's in some position where she can get away with silent treatments considering I've been patient with her thus far. But no more...

On our meetup I'm just going to let it out, and if she continues, it's time to mention D and the fact that I've done my part, she just has to agree on certain questions of the form, sign, and we can be over and done with when it comes to this divorce cause it seems that's what she wants in the end but doesn't have the guts to admit it nor wants to take responsibility for our divorce proceedings.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> @Tracy
> 
> Cause isn't crying what normal people do? lol
> I'm just trying to lessen the pain without lashing out, anger at the situation not anger at her and me? I still feel like lashing out at her knowing she's played her part in it, and at me for being so stupid


No such thing as normal. People react to the same situation very differently. Placing blame on one another is not going to resolve anything. Learn to accept what has happened, try to forgive and start making a difference in the current situation rather than dwelling on the past.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I forgive, besides I know exactly why she's like this after all. Doesn't mean she won't bear the consequences of her actions however. One simply doesn't lead a man on like this nor give him STs and expect him to keep showering one with affection. If she has been setting me up to fail then she'll get what she wants.

The papers are done anyways, on my side at least. All our financial and co-parenting arrangements are already decided and dealt with, the only thing left is the formality of our divorce.


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## Roma (Apr 18, 2012)

To be honest it really has not been that long since you attempted reconciliation even though I'm sure it seems like a lifetime to you. Divorce means that is it, do you think you are really ready for that? because you really sound like you love her so why not just wait till the date you were given (meaning February) so that you are certain. Right now reading your recent posts seems like you are just hurt and angry and people generally don't make the right decisions when in that frame of mind. Take your time, absorb and finally decide when there is no doubt in your mind...that way you will be certain that there will never be any regrets from your side. Are you sure you aren't just reacting to her and wanting to hurt her because she is hurting you? You have already had a taste of what life is like without her, do you want that to be it for the rest of your life. Read a little of the beginning of the thread and remind yourself why you are doing this. Make sure you aren't losing track of your initial intention...if you feel you are totally ready and you don't want or need these questions right now, just feel free and say so otherwise please don't act in haste and live with regret forever


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Roma said:


> To be honest it really has not been that long since you attempted reconciliation even though I'm sure it seems like a lifetime to you. Divorce means that is it, do you think you are really ready for that? because you really sound like you love her so why not just wait till the date you were given (meaning February) so that you are certain. Right now reading your recent posts seems like you are just hurt and angry and people generally don't make the right decisions when in that frame of mind. Take your time, absorb and finally decide when there is no doubt in your mind...that way you will be certain that there will never be any regrets from your side. Are you sure you aren't just reacting to her and wanting to hurt her because she is hurting you? You have already had a taste of what life is like without her, do you want that to be it for the rest of your life. Read a little of the beginning of the thread and remind yourself why you are doing this. Make sure you aren't losing track of your initial intention...if you feel you are totally ready and you don't want or need these questions right now, just feel free and say so otherwise please don't act in haste and live with regret forever


:iagree:


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## Roma (Apr 18, 2012)

btw Tracy I think you are so funny and love reading your posts not just hear but all over the forum


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Roma said:


> btw Tracy I think you are so funny and love reading your posts not just hear but all over the forum


Thanks
:woohoo:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Losing loved ones is familiar to me, I'm always ready for whatever comes, so if divorce is on the table so be it. It's better emotionally to have a clear road rather than continue to be pulled in two directions. Divorce is a clear road, reconciliation takes two - I've done what I can, but there's no progress, it's all one-sided.

She's never been this cold towards me before when I've showed my affection, not even when I first met her. So that means something to me -> and it's not a good sign. I don't blame her one bit considering how I've killed it when she tried to reconcile a while back.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, I think I've just gone insane

Maybe it's the combination of 9-month celibacy + impending divorce + BS at work + unreturned love + rejection + no alcohol + temper + hurt + everything else


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Meh, I think I've just gone insane
> 
> Maybe it's the combination of 9-month celibacy + impending divorce + BS at work + unreturned love + rejection + no alcohol + temper + hurt + everything else


*Hugs*


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

+ dumping a perfectly good date + forced to go NC with her + yet still ignored by my wife

*sigh* I feel fking awful... and MAD
Can't wait till I can slam these papers in her face


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Alright guys, we're having dinner tonight and I'm going to tell her that I'm done with this failed 'reconciliation' and that divorce is our best option considering the circumstances. 

I have the papers ready and I'll approach it civilly. I've been vulnerable long enough, I'm done with her inability to just tell me to my face that she's over it. I trust my instincts in this, it's nice to think of it as 'another shot' but that shot has long gone and she's just too indirect to tell me to my face.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I know

But I also know that she's no longer armoring herself, she's moved on emotionally. I did this. Her coldness is not her fault, her refusal to tell me straight up however, IS. She's a good woman, but she has her flaws, this is one of them, reminds me of all the STs I've dealt with over the years. I'm done with it just as she's done with me.

She needs a better man than I am. I can not tolerate STs, patience is one thing, ST is another, and ST has become a dealbreaker since seperation, and she's crossed the line. Just as I've crossed the line with putting through this rollercoaster. She'll see this coming, no doubt about that, so she'll be proven right. But now I frankly don't care.

I just want to end this, especially now that I can.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I do still surely hope the best for her future, she still has zero competition in my eyes. No woman I've met in this sh-thole of a city can match her quality. But I know when it's done, and I'm not chasing after something that's already dead.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

2galsmom said:


> I think she IS armoring otherwise she would have told you to move on straight up. Granted, I am a person who has never ever met her and completely base everything I think of her on your posts.
> 
> You do NOT want this to end RandomDude so don't end it like this.
> 
> You want your current "situation" to end, and it will. Everything is transient.


:iagree:

Don't throw it away RD. She sounds like a smart woman, which means she knows that attempting R for your child is not a good enough reason to attempt R. Therefore, what is her reason? You.

She's protecting herself, she's been hurt a lot and it's only natural that she's guarding herself.

Show her your strength mate, show YOURSELF your strength.

Deal with her STs by focusing on yourself, then the STs won't matter. Then when you are further on the path to R, let her know how much it bothers you.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Knowing her good and bad sides I know she's the type that when she wants to do something 'not so nice' she will try to keep her hands clean from responsibility of it as to maintain moral high ground. If she can convince herself that she's in the right she can do anything, though it seems when it comes to cheating she hasn't been able to find a way to justify it hence has never done it to the best of my knowledge/repeated tests/investigations in the past.

Anyways, we had dinner. I didn't want to bring up anything during the meal as she'll prolly lose her appetite so I waited until the end. I tried to open up to her but she wasn't interested in a heart to heart conversation. She was decent however when discussing our daughter and life. Towards the end I brought up D and the fact that we can file for a joint divorce now as long as we both agree and sign that the relationship was over last Nov with no chance of reconciliation. She mentioned she already knew that. Then I told her with our reconciliation not going anywhere I'm happy to sign the papers with her.

We nearly got into an argument because she told me that she expected this and I told her that she set me up to fail and hence got what she wanted but we were in a public place. Good though - because at least I got those words in. I told her that she knows I can't handle STs and she did it anyway so what does she expect, she refused to continue our 'conversation', so we ended it, I tried to pay but she insisted on split check. I told her I'll have the papers ready this weekend so meh

Either way I'm done and it looks like she's done too. I know I should have been stronger but I know my limits, STs are the worse, especially since I've quit alcohol. It plays on my paranoia, my fears, and sends my mind thinking too much in all directions... I just can't handle it and she knows. She's not stupid, she knows it's worse then kicking me in the balls. I've put myself in a position where she could continually torture me with it however but I have to break free.

Sorry guys, not good news I know. But it had to happen sooner or later. I've been going insane all week.


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

That's such a shame mate .

It sounds like things got heated, which would mean it's quite possible neither of you were in a sound place to make such a big decision.

However, if this is what you want, then the best of luck to you.

I don't really know what else to say. It's difficult watching someone throw away something that you yourself would have crawled over glass, through fire and acid rain for even the chance of.

Anyway mate, keep looking after yourself and your D. Try not to focus on your STBXW.

Regardless of what choices you make, I, and I'm sure the majority of TAM have your back.


----------



## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Sorry RD. You know sometimes things just don't work out as much as we would like them to. There is just too much hurt and disappointment to move past.

Take some time to work on yourself, to fix those pos tendencies we all have. 

Eventually, you will meet someone who you will "click" with and won't make you sick to your stomach when you kiss her. Don't rush the process, you need time to heal and get over your wife. If you rush, you'll inevitability fail because you will be comparing anyone you date to your ex.

Best wishes to you RD, hang in there.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Its an illusion mate, I'd rather have a good divorce than a bad marriage. We've both played our parts in the breakdown of our relationship and it looks like there are things in both of us that we are just too hard-wired to change. In the end, it just wasn't meant to be.

I'm actually happy that my path is clear now...

Jimmy Cliff - I can see clearly now - YouTube


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

smallsteps said:


> Sorry RD. You know sometimes things just don't work out as much as we would like them to. There is just too much hurt and disappointment to move past.
> 
> Take some time to work on yourself, to fix those pos tendencies we all have.
> 
> ...


I know, we've been grasping at thin air since this attempt at reconciliation. I knew it but took a chance anyway, but at least now, no regrets. You guys helped me see that.

Don't know about the future but... meh, feels good to be on the road again, not going round and round in a roundabout wondering which direction to go - was getting dizzy anyways.


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I'm actually happy that my path is clear now...


When I said goodbye to my STBXW for the final time and blocked her number, I felt an intense sense of relief, but also a deep gut-wrenching sadness. Ultimately the relief prevailed though. So I know how that feels.

This song is a good feel good one that reminds me of everything I have gained since STBXW left.

N.E.R.D. - Things are Getting Better - YouTube


----------



## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

You can never say you didn't try. 

When this decision gives you that much relief, you know you've made the right choice.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah, I felt my heart sink as she walked away tonight, yet it was like being able to breathe after being suffocated. Funny feeling

Thanks guys, I've already filled out my parts of the D form earlier this week so it's ready for her when I see her on the weekend for my daughter.


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Yeah, I felt my heart sink as she walked away tonight, yet it was like being able to breathe after being suffocated. Funny feeling
> 
> Thanks guys, I've already filled out my parts of the D form earlier this week so it's ready for her when I see her on the weekend for my daughter.


Well buddy, onward and upwards to better things for you! The relief for me came from the sense of certainty and finality. That was also what made me sad. It's quite odd.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh, probably going to feel it again when we file for divorce this weekend. The good thing is that we've already taken care of our financial and co-parenting arrangements so now it's just a formality. I'm lucky though that she's been mature enough to not stir up a huge drama about this enough to jeopardise our daughter's welfare through the whole process. Touchwood.


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Heh, probably going to feel it again when we file for divorce this weekend. The good thing is that we've already taken care of our financial and co-parenting arrangements so now it's just a formality. I'm lucky though that she's been mature enough to not stir up a huge drama about this enough to jeopardise our daughter's welfare through the whole process. Touchwood.


Yeah, you probably will mate. I know I will, but I have a long time to prepare.

All of our financial stuff, assets & possessions have been sorted and divided, so it's just a formality for me too when the time comes.

I'm glad there has been minimal drama for your's and your daughter's sake.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Aye, but touchwood! We'll see this weekend. I'm going to visit the laundry though... probably would be slapped out of there lol but would be fun


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Aye, but touchwood! We'll see this weekend. I'm going to visit the laundry though... probably would be slapped out of there lol but would be fun


It can't hurt to give it a go


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Here's where I'm headed tomorrow:










:rofl:
I doubt it'll happen but... nice to think about though lol
Anyways, need to try to make some light outta the whole darn situation!


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Here's where I'm headed tomorrow:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


UGH!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Why the UGH? :scratchhead:


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Too funny that the first thing on your agenda is to empty your tank.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Is there something wrong with that?


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Is there something wrong with that?


No, cause I'm always trying to fill mine up! :rofl:


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well at least you got a hubby to take care of that for ya!

Me, I have a 0.5% of scoring with laundry lady atm considering I dumped her but would be nice to catch up and see how things are 
Would have prefered it with my wife but meh, it's done now


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well at least you got a hubby to take care of that for ya!
> 
> Me, I have a 0.5% of scoring with laundry lady atm considering I dumped her but would be nice to catch up and see how things are
> Would have prefered it with my wife but meh, it's done now


Well I am sad things didn't work out for you RD. I was rooting for ya. Kinda tugs at my cold heart 

I truly hope you get laid and find some peace within your current situation


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

No worries

I'll have peace, but need to empty my bursting tank first


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh* It's going to be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG day today

Fingers crossed that things will not be heated in an hour from now but that maybe too much to ask I guess.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't know how to say this guys... but, I'm going through a mental whirlpool atm as my wife refused to sign the papers this morning, as she insists that she's not finished with me yet, so to tie up loose ends we're having dinner tonight to 'sort things out'.

Meh, kinda annoyed that my daughter is being dragged along as kryptonite against potential drama but can't be helped it seems.


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I don't know how to say this guys... but, I'm going through a mental whirlpool atm as my wife refused to sign the papers this morning, as she insists that she's not finished with me yet, so to tie up loose ends we're having dinner tonight to 'sort things out'.
> 
> Meh, kinda annoyed that my daughter is being dragged along as kryptonite against potential drama but can't be helped it seems.


Maybe your actions knocked some sense into her


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I doubt it, chances are she's just tying up loose ends. I'm just disappointed I can't get this over and done with especially considering I've already done my part on the forms.

Truthfully though... I don't really want a divorce, but I just feel like I have to do what I have to do. I'm hoping she has a change of heart but considering what has transpired thus far that's too much to ask. A loveless NSA life awaits me after this divorce, and it looks like this divorce isn't going to be smooth-sailing either if my wife decides not to sign the papers as this will severely damage our standing with each other making co-parenting much more difficult.


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I doubt it, chances are she's just tying up loose ends. I'm just disappointed I can't get this over and done with especially considering I've already done my part on the forms.
> 
> Truthfully though... I don't really want a divorce, but I just feel like I have to do what I have to do. I'm hoping she has a change of heart but considering what has transpired thus far that's too much to ask. A loveless NSA life awaits me after this divorce, and it looks like this divorce isn't going to be smooth-sailing either if my wife decides not to sign the papers as this will severely damage our standing with each other making co-parenting much more difficult.


Stop. Stop analyzing. You don't know what will happen so don't make up all these worst case scenarios. Just take a breather and calm down.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

>.< Trying!

Its a mental whirlpool atm! *sigh*


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> >.< Trying!
> 
> Its a mental whirlpool atm! *sigh*


Eat some ice cream


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Going for a drive to buy some panadol and stress relief pills


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Going for a drive to buy some panadol and stress relief pills


Why not ice cream?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sure, ice cream for my daughter, but not me, I don't like ice cream -.-


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok guys, wife was very hostile tonight... I felt backed to a corner considering I wanted (and still want) us to stay on civil terms but it looks like it's not happening. She's pinning everything on me, refusing to sign the papers accusing me of pinning our problems on her, leading her on, yada yada yada. She wouldn't let me get a word in. So I just put up with it during dinner listening to her BS hoping she'll calm down which she did eventually but remained cold. 

If anything, she has just declared a cold war. Meh


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## Roma (Apr 18, 2012)

Hey Random, I am obviously very sorry for your situation and wish you well. How are you doing right now?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Stressed, it's picking up at work so at least now I have a distraction.

Right now I'm just letting her pout, don't really care. I'll deal with this after this peak season which by that time we would have 1 year of complete non-reconciliary seperation that she won't be able to argue. But I'm hoping she would at the very least sign her side of the divorce form so we won't have to go through all the processes/hearings/etc.

Still celibate and grumpy however, but fk it


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)




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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, I'm screening some casual staff for upcoming functions as we're going to need some extra hands, hehe...


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well, I'm screening some casual staff for upcoming functions as we're going to need some extra hands, hehe...


You're going to need a casting couch then.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ey? No way, I don't delegate HR 
Besides tomorrow I'll let my twanger decide who's suitable for the role 

See what celibacy has done to me! Bah!


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Ey? No way, I don't delegate HR
> Besides tomorrow I'll let my twanger decide who's suitable for the role
> 
> See what celibacy has done to me! Bah!


What if it's all male applicants?! LMAO


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Its not, I already shredded their CVs


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Its not, I already shredded their CVs


Did you tell them there is a dress code?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yup, high heels and pushup bras essential for the job!


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Yup, high heels and pushup bras essential for the job!


And nothing else?

I hope that's all that the dress code entails.

If so, I think you need to employ me to make sure all your staff are in "uniform".


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm guessing this is your role model?


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I'm guessing this is your role model?


I wouldn't be wearing the heels, I'd just be making sure everyone was in their heels & push up bras


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lol

Sorry mate, not hiring supervisors, only casual sexbu- ... staff hehe
AND FEMALE thank you -.-

For their... "people skills"


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Lol
> 
> Sorry mate, not hiring supervisors, only casual sexbu- ... staff hehe
> AND FEMALE thank you -.-
> ...


Shame, maybe I should start my own business.

I'm thinking a strip club .


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

HAREM! 

Going to convert my business into a harem is what I'm going to do if I remain celibate any longer, sure I may alienate all my stakeholders but as a great man once said, we men all have a penis and a brain, but only enough blood to run one at a time!

But meh, fk it, I'll commit financial suicide later, need to switch off work


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> HAREM!
> 
> Going to convert my business into a harem is what I'm going to do if I remain celibate any longer, sure I may alienate all my stakeholders but as a great man once said, we men all have a penis and a brain, but only enough blood to run one at a time!
> 
> But meh, fk it, I'll commit financial suicide later, need to switch off work


Haha, yeah that's not a bad idea, although some nights in the club I feel like I have my own harem . 

Which reminds me, I really need to get out soon. Struggling to round up friends who are willing to go out so close to Christmas though.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Argh don't mention xmas, it switches me back on work >.<

Lol


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Argh don't mention xmas, it switches me back on work >.<
> 
> Lol


Lol, I'm really not feeling it this year. Luckily I don't have to drop like £500 on gifts for STBXW though .

Which means.... I can treat myself. I need some new headphones


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh* Laundry lady has disappeared -.-

And I don't have her number and I doubt she'll call considering I dumped her thanks to STBXW, and no I'm not going to ask for her, bleh... lamish/stalkerish! I can't believe how much I fked this up, hot girls like that just don't knock twice! BAH!


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> *sigh* Laundry lady has disappeared -.-
> 
> And I don't have her number and I doubt she'll call considering I dumped her thanks to STBXW, and no I'm not going to ask for her, bleh... lamish/stalkerish! I can't believe how much I fked this up, hot girls like that just don't knock twice! BAH!


Ummm didn't you gag when you kissed her?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

No I only felt like gagging and only because my mind and heart was still with my wife. But bleh, NO LONGER -.- I'll gag over my wife instead!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh* Miss her now really... and still p-ssed at my wife. Could use some company going through divorce proceedings.


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> *sigh* Miss her now really... and still p-ssed at my wife. Could use some company going through divorce proceedings.


That was sweet  
You could always strip at the club and find a lady to get laid with  

I know you can dance....


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Go kill it on the dance floor ey? Next thing I know I'll have women with bfs hitting on me and I'll be having to smack 'em up and next year I'll have not only my divorce hearing to attend but charges of assault and grievous bodily harm -.- ! BAH! FK MY LIFE

Nah... actually I really just want my laundry lady back, she's a cool chick really, just thinking of how to re-establish contact. I'm gonna keep driving past and see if she's there, and if she is one day, I'm pulling over.


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Go kill it on the dance floor ey? Next thing I know I'll have women with bfs hitting on me and I'll be having to smack 'em up and next year I'll have not only my divorce hearing to attend but charges of assault and grievous bodily harm -.- ! BAH! FK MY LIFE
> 
> Nah... actually I really just want my laundry lady back, she's a cool chick really, just thinking of how to re-establish contact. I'm gonna keep driving past and see if she's there, and if she is one day, I'm pulling over.


So stalk her then. Good plan.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm out of options 

And it's not stalking, I'm only driving past >.>


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Chances are I'll end up with the exact same scenario as with my wife - I did dump laundry lady too >.<

FK MY LIFE!

The future of my ballsacs it seems looks like this:
Incredible Tank Implosion - YouTube


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Chances are I'll end up with the exact same scenario as with my wife - I did dump laundry lady too >.<
> 
> FK MY LIFE!
> 
> ...


Sigh! You'll be rolling in the hay soon enough.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

10 months now... implosion imminent 

I just don't see it happening anymore


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Not a criticism RD, but a lot of your posts seem to be very defeatist. 

You only ever fail when you give up trying.

Keep your chin up buddy, things will get better.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh

I just need to RAM something -.-









Maybe I'll just go for a drive, RAM into some hot babe's car, have her abuse me and then get her number! Wait, that's a good idea! GENIUS!  lol


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm just annoyed with life's circumstances at the moment, and very disappointed with my wife, and regretting letting my date go. Now I'm alone this xmas


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I'm just annoyed with life's circumstances at the moment, and very disappointed with my wife, and regretting letting my date go. Now I'm alone this xmas


Understandable mate. I'm disappointed with mine too, and will also be "alone" this Christmas (I'll be with family, but have no partner to share it with).

What I'm saying is, don't give up. All is not lost, that only happens when you quit.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'll be with my minions I guess... meh

We'll see, I'll keep driving past, but I think she must have gone for holidays or something. Oh well

Nothing to do now but wait and pluck my twanger!


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I'll be with my minions I guess... meh
> 
> We'll see, I'll keep driving past, but I think she must have gone for holidays or something. Oh well
> 
> Nothing to do now but wait and pluck my twanger!


Indeed, patience is a virtue.

You'll get there bud .


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

In a bad shape really, at the moment I have pressure everywhere, wife being a b-tch, daughter being unable to celebrate xmas as a family due to our civil relations breaking down, shareholders still pushing me to expand, none of my staff wish to take on new responsibilities and I don't wish to recruit senior positions externally. 

Same reason I am wary about franchising, meh

They say that a business either grows or dies, I wonder if that's really true...


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> They say that a business either grows or dies, I wonder if that's really true...


Too many other factors in this - competitors, supply and demand, economic climate, client base etc.

You could always hire me for that uniform inspector job


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You do know its mostly a sausage fest yes?  lol

Either than my junior / casual / night staff


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> You do know its mostly a sausage fest yes?  lol
> 
> Either than my junior / casual / night staff


Uhhhh.... on second thoughts, I'll withdraw my application.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lol aww, I was about to offer you a competitive salary, but oh well, fine! 

-.-


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Lol aww, I was about to offer you a competitive salary, but oh well, fine!
> 
> -.-


I'm sure you were  Would you pay for my relocation and sponsor me for a visa too?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Erm... No -.-

People are always looking for sponsors these days... bah!


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Erm... No -.-
> 
> People are always looking for sponsors these days... bah!


Well, unless you're in the EU, or have a branch in the EU, I'd need a visa .


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

-.-

Why don't you just dig a tunnel through the earth from UK to Australia like in the new Total Recall film? Bah!

Meh, anyways, enough of this... time for a workout and bed


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> -.-
> 
> Why don't you just dig a tunnel through the earth from UK to Australia like in the new Total Recall film? Bah!
> 
> Meh, anyways, enough of this... time for a workout and bed


Enjoy the workout buddy.

I won't be digging any tunnels haha. Also I don't rate Colin Farrel/Farell or however you spell it, so I haven't seen the new Total Recall film .


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Besides everyone knows if you dig from the UK you end up in China.

It's science, I'm not going to argue with science.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

LOL the movie got it wrong then!


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> LOL the movie got it wrong then!


Clearly, just another reason not to watch it. Colin F and inaccuracy, both terrible things to have in movies.


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Actually to be fair to Colin F - "Fright Night" wasn't too bad. Wasn't great, but wasn't awful either.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Darn it, so I finally found an interesting online fling finder site, with apparently 0 fake profiles... BUT, no ability to search by ethnic -.-

What a joke!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I have more game then I thought... =/

Well fellas, I went out, I'll let you figure out the rest


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I have more game then I thought... =/
> 
> Well fellas, I went out, I'll let you figure out the rest


Celibacy broken?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Nah I move steady, got a few numbers, we'll see how it goes. Texting them atm while brushing me teeth.


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Nah I move steady, got a few numbers, we'll see how it goes. Texting them atm while brushing me teeth.


Numbers are a good start man  I've been working some "game" for over a month now, generally chat to 2-3 different women each day .

I'm not looking for anything though, but it's good practice for when the time comes!


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Lol


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, those girls are just for fun, I'm not going to do anything with them. I'm still not really over either my wife or 'laundry lady'. My wife is also alot less hostile today, wants to sort things out tonight. We'll see

I'm not a mansl-t


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Meh, those girls are just for fun, I'm not going to do anything with them. I'm still not really over either my wife or 'laundry lady'. My wife is also alot less hostile today, wants to sort things out tonight. We'll see
> 
> I'm not a mansl-t


You should try it. Does wonders.

Or so I hear


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, not my thing, not anymore


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RD you baffle me! You whine and whine and whine about getting laid and the opportunity presents itself and you say no. 

And now you are going back to your wife. 

*sigh* I'll never understand


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not going back to her, though she was alot nicer today, she wanted to sort things out so we could civilly celebrate xmas together as a family as it's not fair on our daughter if we don't.

Anyways I don't just ram anyone


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Not going back to her, though she was alot nicer today, she wanted to sort things out so we could civilly celebrate xmas together as a family as it's not fair on our daughter if we don't.
> 
> Anyways I don't just ram anyone


So who do you ram?


----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

His palm


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)




----------



## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

tracyishere said:


>


I think I'm going to get that printed on a t-shirt.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lol


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm getting bored of porn, and have no interest in fking randoms. I need a bit of chemistry it seems. Meh, oh well


----------



## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I'm getting bored of porn, and have no interest in fking randoms. I need a bit of chemistry it seems. Meh, oh well


Isn't it great when you think there ain't no possibility you could have another orgasm and then you are proven wrong? 

Oh wait.... You wouldn't know. Sorry.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

?

-.-


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> ?
> 
> -.-


I was bragging how I got laid and you didn't. Oh... And that it felt REALLY Good.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Not helping -.-


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Not helping -.-


Get that hand away from my face. I know where it has been.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Keep it up if you wanna get smacked with it!


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Too funny


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm going to make a move on my wife, I don't care anymore, prepared to crash and burn but at least I'll know I've exhausted an option especially she's back to acting civilly. Meh


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I'm going to make a move on my wife, I don't care anymore, prepared to crash and burn but at least I'll know I've exhausted an option especially she's back to acting civilly. Meh


Fella, you're all over the place. Your wife will appreciate you sticking to your guns one way or another. Be decisive and stick to it .

How are you doing? Haven't seen you posting much.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

Stay strong, RD... you know you are thinking with the wrong head. You are just setting yourself up to be hurt again.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Been busy, lonely and horny...

Yeah alright, thinking with the wrong head but I'm so done with porn and "laundry lady" aint around no more (think she's on holidays) but lost her number thanks to my wife so meh and other women I've met thus far are substandard =/

Meh


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Been busy, lonely and horny...
> 
> Yeah alright, thinking with the wrong head but I'm so done with porn and "laundry lady" aint around no more (think she's on holidays) but lost her number thanks to my wife so meh and other women I've met thus far are substandard =/
> 
> Meh


Know the feeling mate.

Get to 50k and re-evaluate before making any decisions . Don't let emotions or impulses cloud judgement.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Get to 50k? :scratchhead: Is this a British expression that I'm unaware of?

Meh


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Get to 50k? :scratchhead: Is this a British expression that I'm unaware of?
> 
> Meh


It's a TAM term. 50k means 50,000 feet.

Essentially the idea is to emotionally remove yourself from the situation as far as possible and observe it as an outsider with no investment in it in order to make more sound, rational decisions.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hard when my brain looks like this:


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

You have a brain? huh...weird


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Better -> I have two!


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Better -> I have two!


Yet neither of them seem to be able to agree with each other


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

WantWifeBack said:


> Yet neither of them seem to be able to agree with each other



Lol


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## missingmylife (Apr 16, 2013)

RD,

Step back from your sexual desires for a minute. 

What is it that you want? Besides sex. Sex is the only constant driving factor in your posts. So, what is it that you want? Do you want your wife back? Do you want to be single? Are you incapable of being happy on your own regardless of your sexual fulfillment or relationship status?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't know what I want anymore really, everything is a mess -> I'm just taking the piss to keep my sanity tis all, I'll be alright sooner or later - I hope...


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I don't blame you for feeling that way RD. I think it is normal to feel some uncertainty when making such life altering decisions. It's ok if you are still on the fence about things. We'll catch you if you fall.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ah life is good, had some 'romance' on Friday, think that's enough for one week. Keeps me out of desperation for STBX to know I still have plenty of options... more than I anticipated >.<


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

'Romance' huh? :smthumbup:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah, turned out I was looking in all the wrong places, was a big change from walking into a singles event where everyone I met was an instant NO but getting their numbers for the sake of it (trying to be less picky/lowering my standards) even though friendzoning them within the first few seconds of meeting them.

The ratio of interest changed from 1 in 100 to 1 in 5, and I didn't expect such a large group let alone so many quality women nor was I expecting to even meet women there. One in particular got me rather infactuated the longer I talked to her, rather different from laundry lady/wife's friend really, and she has that spark in her eyes. At least now I'm no longer desperate to have my wife back due to lack of options.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Yeah, turned out I was looking in all the wrong places, was a big change from walking into a singles event where everyone I met was an instant NO but getting their numbers for the sake of it (trying to be less picky/lowering my standards) even though friendzoning them within the first few seconds of meeting them.
> 
> The ratio of interest changed from 1 in 100 to 1 in 5, and I didn't expect such a large group let alone so many quality women nor was I expecting to even meet women there. One in particular got me rather infactuated the longer I talked to her, rather different from laundry lady/wife's friend really, and she has that spark in her eyes. At least now I'm no longer desperate to have my wife back due to lack of options.



And where was this magical panacea of 'quality women'? Purely for research purposes, you understand...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh, put it this way, go to events where you have an interest - not singles event, where everyone is there to hook up and full of randoms. In my case, it was culture and spirituality that I was into, so it filtered the women down for me to those who I can actually have deep conversations with and who share my values and interests, hence the 1 in 5 ratio.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Heh, put it this way, go to events where you have an interest - not singles event, where everyone is there to hook up and full of randoms. In my case, it was culture and spirituality that I was into, so it filtered the women down for me to those who I can actually have deep conversations with and who share my values and interests, hence the 1 in 5 ratio.


Translation: "Buddhist Wet T-Shirt Contest" :smthumbup:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lol aye something like that


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Fk... its 2014 right now, and guess what -> I STILL can't fking sign


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Dude, where have you been? :O

Why can't you sign?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Been errr... nevermind... hehe

As for not signing, I don't know... from her side she doesn't want to be responsible for it and life has been going on


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

So, you're going to stay married to her indefinitely because she doesn't want to sign it?

What's stopping YOU from signing it?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Realising what I've lost and may never find again


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Oneitis?

Are you trying to R still?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

We're past any attempt on reconciliation, we're civil but that's about it. Eventually I'm sure one of us will do it, especially when one of us finds someone else to commit to

In time I guess, the hurts are still recent


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> We're past any attempt on reconciliation, we're civil but that's about it. Eventually I'm sure one of us will do it, especially when one of us finds someone else to commit to
> 
> In time I guess, the hurts are still recent


How long have you been separated now mate?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Over a year now mate


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Over a year now mate


Re-read your last post mate.



> We're past any attempt on reconciliation, we're civil but that's about it. Eventually I'm sure one of us will do it, especially when one of us finds someone else to commit to
> 
> In time I guess, the hurts are still recent





> Over a year now mate


Don't you think it's time to take the plunge?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Argh... guess I'll get around to it eventually, just been busy

Not to mention it's going to start the dang process which would be easier if she would fill out her half of the forms (which she said she wont)

But I dunno, it's been a while and she's moved on emotionally already, maybe I'll ask her again next weekend


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