# He's not in love with me anymore



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

My husband got emotionally involved with a family friend 2 years ago. She and I were friends, kids played together, families hung out, etc. All the while she and my husband started this texting thing and they played on a sports team together. Her husband found out after a few months and confronted my husband. They both said it was over, no more contact, etc. But it didn't stop for almost a year. Nothing major, but a quick text or phone call and they crossed paths a few times. I freaked out every time and he would treat me like I was crazy for being so angry. To say I was devastated and heartbroken when I first found out is an understatement. I was also pregnant at the time. It was the worst time of my life. I was extremely angry and felt like I would die of hurt and anger at times. Fastfoward to now, almost 2 years later. He's been telling me for a year now that he's not sure he's in love with me anymore. One because he found love with her he doesn't feel for me and two because of my reaction and anger to the situation. He claims he has no feelings for her anymore, but the fact that he felt something for someone else that he doesn't feel for me makes him think he can't be happy with me. I'm devastated because I don't want a divorce. I don't want our kids to go through that. I still love him. What do I do?


----------



## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

what do you do? Love yourself more. You are deserving of being in a relationship where you're cherished... you focus on yourself and being the best YOU you can be... let him see you do it - going out with friends, getting new hobbies, really enjoying your life. 

Also, I doubt his affair (or at least contact) is over with his AP.. This smells of them being still involved.


----------



## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

You may have to BOUNCE your husband or the hit to your self-esteem could become an existential threat. Make sense? DUDE


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Emma

Your husband is a liar. 

He doesn't love you because of your reaction is a crock also.

Give defiant people what they want.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Yeah. .I'm hearing from different people in my life I need to love myself more. Definitely something I'm trying to be better about. But I don't always know how to go about it. Telling yourself to feel something is harder than it seems, to make yourself believe it. I do have several hobbies and interests and am told by people around me how talented, etc. I am but rarely hear that from my husband. I was 19 when we met, he's all I've really ever known besides a few boyfriends in my teenage years. He says I don't meet his emotional needs...he just thinks we're not compatible anymore. I hate to break up our family. I never thought I would get divorced..it's against everything I was taught and it seems unbearable to think about. But it's his choice too. And I'm getting tired of feeling so lonely and unloved. Especially when I feel like I'm trying.


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Emma957 said:


> . He says I don't meet his emotional needs...he just thinks we're not compatible anymore.


Maybe you could ask him why he married you and had children with you then? Ask him what he thinks of that sort of commitment? Maybe remind him that you have started building a family together and that you don't just up and leave a marriage and kids like that? Ask him if he is seeing the other woman and how he sees his future having to co-parent with you and perhaps have children with someone else?

I think you should try to buy some time to see whether or not your marriage is salvageable. If you didn't have children, I'd say let him go before he'd finished his sentence.....


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

The affair is still going on. It just went underground. You can be 100% sure of that. He's detached from you because he is STILL involved with her.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I'm sorry you find yourself here.

First thing, try to remember cheaters lie. You can tell because their mouth is moving. (Yes, yes I know there are some waywards out there who will object to that categorization, but experience has proven otherwise).

Any ways, Farsidejunky posted this in another person's thread and I think it might help.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end, let go of the people that don't value you or respect you. That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner. Seriously, the quickest way to get them back. Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go. Agree with them and their feelings, "you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye" Wouldn't that be true love? If you really loved your spouse, and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with, wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them? Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?

Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person. But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating. A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason? To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse? What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse? They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point, The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this. "Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want. You don't fight them on this issue. You agree with their feelings, they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person. You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead", you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them", you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me" I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them.

It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision.

Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

I'm pretty sure it's not still going on.. her husband was crazier than me and basically stalked her every move and would let me know when things happened between them. I haven't heard from him since last March. He was so ready to leave her, but it seems, at least according to mutual friends, they are doing good. Not that our friends know anything, I just know they're still married. I would be really surprised if they were still involved.. that would be a deal breaker for me for sure. But he claims it's not about her anymore, it's about the fact he's not in love with me. He also says he's depressed and wonders if it's because of our marriage, because he's stuck in a loveless marriage. Ok, side note, the thing that I don't understand is I feel like no amount of trying on my part is getting me anywhere. For example.. I am pretty fit, I'm 5'8', size 4, athletic, etc. and it's not like I sit at home in my sweats all day. I don't turn him down in bed, though he rarely wants me anymore. I feel like I do all these good things in life, people around me tell me how great I am (seriously I'm not bragging I'm just trying to be real here and put my feelings out there) and I'm just like really confused why I've failed to make him happy. I keep the house clean, I cook good meals, try to be good mom, I keep up with the laundry, work part time...and yet.. I never seem to be enough for him. 

He's asked me to 'give him space' for 3 months. Because apparently me trying to hold his hand or hug him is repelling to him since he's not into me right now and needs his space. Meanwhile I'm left feeling so alone, and so uncertain about my future. I'm trying to hang on to this marriage and hoping that we can get through this. Has anyone else been through a spouse telling them they're not in love anymore.. and were you able to move past it and have a good marriage?


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i don't really believe there is such a thing as 'falling out of love'.

it is said by wiser men than me, that love is primarily a choice, not a feeling.
feelings are fickle and come and go.
today i might have deep and wonderful feelings about my wife.
tomorrow she might tick me off and not so much.
i promised to love her until death do us part.
i must choose to do that, no matter how i feel.

so, he didn't fall out of love with you; he is choosing not to love you.

for that i am sorry.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Pluto2, your response hit the same time as mine. Thanks for that.. yeah.. that's kind of what I've been feeling I need to do. Give him a calm ultimatum that if that's how he really feels then it is time for this to be over. I guess I'm just dragging my feet because 18 years together, kids, etc. . it's not easy!! But I'm seeing few happy alternatives.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

He does not love you anymore because he is still in love with her. He is grieving her loss. That is why you touching him is so repelling. He needs space to grieve and figure out what to do. 

Now if this was me and my H is in love and hurting for some other woman, darling, he would find his ass so fast out on the street. 

Kids strive best in a happy household. They are sensing all this tension between you and your H and wondering what is going on? 

For me, if you don't want me, then, no problem. I am not going to sit and watch you mop. Nor am I going to help you get over your heartbreak. My kids will be better off with me alone than, living in a house where mum is unhappy and upset all the time. 

So, figure out what you want. Do you want to give him space to figure his sh!t out? Are you going to beg, plead and bargain for him to choose and love you? What do you want?


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Do the 180, disconnect from him, and learn about all of your finances....Be prepared for divorce, and know what you can expect to get financially.....When you have your act together, present him with divorce papers, and a list of rentals so he can find a place to stay....It might shock him back to reality...


----------



## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Your husband sounds like a real d!ck to be honest. In this case give him what he wants, he thinks he can control you with his nastiness and coldness (appears to be working for the most part). Turn it around on him, let him know what life will really be like without you, ask him to leave the house, start paying child support and see how the other half live. Start going out with friends, exercising, even dating if you both OK that during the separation.

You crying, hugging him as he inflicts you with abuse is just bolstering him. I would basically pull a complete 180 on the guy, it will either drive him off for good (good riddance) or he'll freak out and come full circle.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Emma957 said:


> I'm pretty sure it's not still going on...


The way your husband is acting is textbook cheater behavior. He's STILL talking to her. He's gotten much better at hiding it. This is why soft confronts are back fire. Probably uses work email, burner phone, or something you can't get access too and neither can the crazy OW's husband.

Relationship grievers will end up throwing themselves back into plan B (you) at some point. The fact that is he so emotionally detached STILL is a dead giveaway he's still in contact. When he gives you the ILYBNILWY speech, he's hot and heavy with her. The "need space" line is code for stop investigating so I can cheat on you. 

You need to wise up. The affair is still going on. INVESTIGATE but do so COVERTLY.


----------



## sirwonder (Feb 24, 2011)

I agree with Pluto2.

The only way to get a person back who says he doesn't love you anymore is to let him go. No ultimatum. You can't say "start loving me or it's over." Just remove yourself from this with a smile on your face. This is your move, your time to do something, and it's the only thing you can control. Tell him he can go stay somewhere else, or depending on your circumstances or what you prefer, you could go stay elsewhere even for a short time until you figure things out.

But, also do your research, phone records, texts, emails etc to make sure he's really not seeing the other woman. You need to be absolutely certain of this because it obviously changes things.

He will only realize his true feelings for you if you remove yourself from him completely. Separate, and then see what happens. And stay strong, hold firm! Go do things for yourself for now.

If he loves you he will come back and show you. Only then can you proceed in making a better marriage together.


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

Omego said:


> Maybe you could ask him why he married you and had children with you then? Ask him what he thinks of that sort of commitment? Maybe remind him that you have started building a family together and that you don't just up and leave a marriage and kids like that? Ask him if he is seeing the other woman and how he sees his future having to co-parent with you and perhaps have children with someone else?
> 
> I think you should try to buy some time to see whether or not your marriage is salvageable. If you didn't have children, I'd say let him go before he'd finished his sentence.....



Having had my ex-wife say she is not in love with me, and then having tried to reason with her....
I do not see how asking these questions is going to help. As a matter of fact, if you have been discussing this and keep going through the same arguments, I dont know if just continuous TALK is going to get you anywhere either. 

I would suggest take action. Any action that is going to make you feel better about yourself. Exercise is a great thing, but knowing your passion(s) and diving into it whether he wants to go along or not is great, and finally, rather than TALK about it...filing for divorce is the ultimate action that shows you are not going to whither and die because of him.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Agreed with MMR. Talking about it and asking him all the questions has gotten me no where. He just gets really irritated. Tells me I'm emotionally needy, annoying, etc. So I don't talk to him about it. I don't talk to him about much.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

He wants me to "just be happy and normal" and eventually he thinks his feelings will come back. I'm starting to wonder of that means eventually he'll be over her. He doesn't want to talk about our relationship, or for me to ask him any questions about how he's feeling, etc.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

He does not want you to dig into his feelings and thoughts because he is grieving. He is hurt and resentful. Because he had to give up his love because of you and her H. He has no time or feelings for you because of this. You are just being annoying. Your neediness to him is repulsive. He just wants you to go away and not bother him. 

You need a new plan of action. You need to distant yourself from him. Read up on the 180 and start working on it seriously. Get strong and build up a wall to protect yourself. Then, when he is ready to deal, you have your ducks in a row. You are then able to handle whatever he dishes out. 

You are going to need to get stronger to handle his angry when it starts.

In the meantime, get smart. STARt collecting all the necessary papers and documents incase this marriage does not survive. Get your finances together. Get copies of all bank statements, retirement accts, your mortgage and taxes. Your best defense is to be prepared.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

um..side note, just curious.. why do some of the posters on here have like over a thousand comments and others (like mine) have 20..just some topics that resonates more or did I post it wrong somehow


----------



## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> um..side note, just curious.. why do some of the posters on here have like over a thousand comments and others (like mine) have 20..just some topics that resonates more or did I post it wrong somehow


You didn't post anything wrong.

My opinion, the juicier it is, the more comments.

My thread is a hundred pages. And if you read it, about 50 pages of it are nastiness lol.

If I were you id prefer the 20 supportive comments. 

But people here at TAM ARE here for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> My husband got emotionally involved with a family friend 2 years ago. She and I were friends, kids played together, families hung out, etc. All the while she and my husband started this texting thing and they played on a sports team together. Her husband found out after a few months and confronted my husband. They both said it was over, no more contact, etc. But it didn't stop for almost a year. Nothing major, but a quick text or phone call and they crossed paths a few times. I freaked out every time and he would treat me like I was crazy for being so angry. To say I was devastated and heartbroken when I first found out is an understatement. I was also pregnant at the time. It was the worst time of my life. I was extremely angry and felt like I would die of hurt and anger at times. Fastfoward to now, almost 2 years later. He's been telling me for a year now that he's not sure he's in love with me anymore. One because he found love with her he doesn't feel for me and two because of my reaction and anger to the situation. He claims he has no feelings for her anymore, but the fact that he felt something for someone else that he doesn't feel for me makes him think he can't be happy with me. I'm devastated because I don't want a divorce. I don't want our kids to go through that. I still love him. What do I do?


So your "husband" doesn't love you anymore because...
1) You took his little playmate away from him
And perhaps of more relevance here 
2) You stood up to him.

What is he? A man or a pathetic little wuzz?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Emma,

I know you are in pain right now but you cannot fix the marriage yourself or win him back by bending over backwards. Your H is still emotionally attached to her as as some have pointed out could well be still involved with her just that it has gone underground. He probably blames you for his current state. He is blind to the pain and grief he has caused you.

You have to take care of your self and your child - how old is your child now? You said you were pregnant when this started? How many kids do you have?

YOu have to start emotionally detaching from him, do the 180 on him, do not engage him at all unless it is to do with the house, kid etc. Ignore him. You will find the 180 list here on TAM, read it and practice it as best you can.

Start doing things for you, get your hair done, manicures pedicures, go out with your female friends, attend movies, plays, etc. You are hurting and feeling abandoned which means you are a target for an affair too, so avoid these type of situations, you do not want to complicate things further.
You should go and see a lawyer to ensure you are many steps ahead of him - i know you do not want a divorce, but you do not know what your WH is thinking and it is better you are at least armed with the necessary information with regard to finances, custody, etc. 

If you are not working, I would suggest you consider getting a job, it will be another way of getting out of the house and becoming financially independent. You will have to arrange childcare but our WH will have to share the cost /responsibility.

Go to IC to help you through this and talk to some close friends for support. 

Start to act as if you are moving on from him. It sounds counter intuitive but he has to see that you can survive without him and see the reality of not having you or his kid full time. Remember you are worth more that what your WH is doing to you. His treatment of you will result in you losing self-esteem, you have to rise above it.

Please let all your family and friends know what he has done, if they are still at it, at least people will be informed and be more aware. You should not cover this up at all, this is totally on him not you. Affairs only ever survive in the darkness, when exposed, the fog usually lifts and the fantasy does not looks so enticing anymore so expose what he has done.

It is likely when you do all of these things that your WH will get a reality check. He may even scramble to win you back to him, be cautious, do you really want to be with a man who was willing to cheat on you and then throw you away?

If he does not at least you are on your way to being an independent woman who does not need the scraps your WH is giving you.
You can do this. Find your inner strength and righteous anger.


----------



## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Don't wait around for him to love you again. Even if it does happen, by then, after suffering through his neglect, you may not love him anymore. I wouldn't take a chance on that. Ironically, I see my H in your situation. He cheated, I rug swept, and his only consequence was we stopped intimacy for a long while. I never insisted on the truth. Then when I had a revenge affair, he suddenly decided he loved me again and didn't want to lose me. 
So he used every spy tactic available to force an end to my affair and now he waits around, looking like a wounded puppy half the time, like that is going to make me love him and want him again. I'm not telling you this to be cruel, but to show you that it doesn't work. My case is very different from yours in some ways, but the end result is that I wish I had had the courage to leave him before I did something stupid in return. Now I feel tainted by the whole mess. I'm not saying you are going to do the same, but to tell you that this is what can happen when you are in a loveless marriage that has been blown apart by infidelity.


----------



## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

ButtPunch said:


> Emma
> 
> Your husband is a liar.
> 
> ...


Well he may not love her because of her reaction. I say that because the alternative is that he didn't love her because of the person she is and after 18 years I am sure he did love her as a person.


----------



## sixbravebulls (Aug 18, 2015)

Stay together and go to counseling.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

There is no happy answer to this, so you will just have to tough it out. All of your options are painful right now, so I would choose the one that will should leave you in the strongest, healthiest position.

That is what others have said:

- Stop trying to nice him back.
- Stop acting distraught.
- Stop acting desperate.
- See a lawyer and learn what situation you will be in if you D.
- If you are not working outside the home, get on the stick and start looking for a job.
- Change your hairstyle, get some new clothes, participate in a new hobby, enjoy time with friends - in short, force yourself to have a life away from him.
- Be proud of yourself. Show some confidence.

Do the 180 to detach:

The Healing Heart: The 180

The 180 is amazingly effective and will help you within a week or two if you apply it seriously.

Don't beg for love. Why should you? He had an affair. He's the unworthy one. Put your big girl panties on and keep them on. 

Let go of the fear.

Let go of the outcome.

You will survive without him if you have to.

180. 180. 180. That's your best chance right now to turn this situation to your advantage.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

I just read the 180 post everyone was referring to. It totally makes sense. I've been doing all the opposites, basically begging him to love me and forget her. Sounds like I need to forget him instead. This is kind of freeing actually. I've had this fear of losing him which has been driving my actions but as I'm thinking of actually being free of him, even though it's not ideal for the family, it doesn't seem so scary. I mean the worst that could happen is I could be single for a while, or I might actually find someone that treats me right. Not to say I will leave for sure, but I think at least facing that reality and being OK with it is helpful.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> I just read the 180 post everyone was referring to. It totally makes sense. I've been doing all the opposites, basically begging him to love me and forget her. Sounds like I need to forget him instead. This is kind of freeing actually. I've had this fear of losing him which has been driving my actions but as I'm thinking of actually being free of him, even though it's not ideal for the family, it doesn't seem so scary. I mean the worst that could happen is I could be single for a while, or I might actually find someone that treats me right. Not to say I will leave for sure, but I think at least facing that reality and being OK with it is helpful.


Exactly, Emma! Find your strength. You were a whole person before you married him and you don't need him to live a fulfilling life now.

He may figure out that he is in love with the new, independent you, the you who doesn't need him to be complete, and then you can decide if you even want him anymore.

If he doesn't figure it out, then you have a head start on your new life.

It's hard to start, but if you discipline yourself with the 180, the healing and strength come quickly. If you stick with it, you'll be reporting to us soon that you feel much stronger. Don't drop the ball. Don't worry if you don't get it all right right off the bat, just try your hardest. Focus on you and your life, not his.

Stick with us. We all check in pretty regularly.

He may have broken your heart, but it's your heart and you can fix it yourself. You don't need him to do it.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What you are describing is textbook cheater behavior. Classic. I can't stress enough how strongly I feel he is in love with someone else, whether it be w the woman you know about or one you don't.

You absolutely can't change their mind by being nice.
Stick w your 180 and remember that if he's talking, he's lying.
The way you are describing yourself as an attractive, fun, healthy, willing to cook and clean, willing to try to make your spouse happy/-- you are crazy for putting up with this!
Life is too short to put up w a cheating spouse.

Soon he will start blaming his "feelings" on you even more. He'll want to separate because he wants even more space and your neediness is making him do it. He'll tell you how he didn't mean for this to happen but he just doesn't love you anymore and doesn't want to hurt you further. It's all bs. Your whole marriage is being rewritten in his mind so that he doesn't have to feel guilt for what he's doing. You truly won't even recognize him anymore.

Divorce him and find another man who will absolutely treasure a woman like you who wants to be married and wants to do what's required to keep a man happy.

I'm sorry this has happened to you and know firsthand how badly it feels.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks guys for all the support here! Today's my day one of the 180. I already feel better about my situation because I'm focusing on what I can control (my hapiness, my actions, etc) instead of what I can't (his feelings for me, his actions). Wish me luck!


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Emma, I hope you keep posting. There are lots of ups and down that go with this and having a sounding board can help.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Yes, if you start to waver or aren't sure about some element of the 180, come here and post. 

Good luck!

Remember, it's your life. Don't let anyone else live it for you.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi guys. Well, made it through day one. Things were going OK but this afternoon I was reading the divorce papers (just from our state juducial website), just to get my ducks in a row and sort of start figuring out what it might look like. He came into the room as I was looking them over and went nuts. He grabbed the papers out of my hand and threw them at the wall, yelling that I shouldn't be making plans for divorce if I'm trying to make things better. 

I calmly told him I was simply getting my ducks in a row since he often says he wants to leave. I calmly gathered the papers and he again grabbed then away and threw them again (I think I'll need to print a new set, they're pretty beat up). 

I told him that I hope things can get better but if not, I want to be prepared. I think my calmness made him go more nuts...because he was on one. Like crazy crazy. He's never nor do I think he would ever physicaly hurt me. We never cross that boundary. But I'm happy to say I remained calm and kept my cool. He yelled and stuff, I watched him feeling sorry for him. Then we had to go to a Christmas party and pretend to be a happy couple. 

Ha. So that was my day one. High five. I survived it anyway. Well. .it's not totally over. He's out shopping and I'll see him before bed. But I think I'll sleep on the couch.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Yep! High five back! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Definite high five .

Keep reading the 180 list to reinforce it. The more you build yourself up, the more you can see things clearly and more independently. You will feel less despair, less neediness. It's certainly not ideal to have to do this, but it's better than the alternative, so keep going.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Well, his rediculous childish behavior should certainly help you decide what to do.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
The previous poster has made two astute observations. He posted on page one that love is a choice and above, that your H is a child. Spot on on both points. Your H does not love you anymore because he never did. He does not possess enough intellectual development to fully understand love and therefore is not capable of the expression of "love" that you need/expect.

You indicated that he told you he never felt for you what he felt for the OW and yet now he says he feels nothing for her. How does one so easily dimiss "love"? They do not so the inescapable conclusion is he does not know what love is.

His reaction to your research into D further exemplifies his immaturity. If he sincerely has lost that feeling for you then why the anger over what would be the logical next step? The answer is because he lacks the ability to truly feel and only sees you Ding as him losing his cake. When you take something from a child they usually get angry

Therefore, if you choose to continue this marriage be prepared for more of the same until he matures enough to put you and his family ahead of himself and be forewarned that he may never reach that level of maturity. I wish you good fortune.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Emma, high five! 

You keep doing the 180 and stay focus. As you become stronger and stay calm in this storm, he will start noticing. 

Let me tell you a story, my BIL did the same thing to my SIL (my husband's brother). He fell in love with a family friend. Rewrote their entire family history. His kids were no good and giving him problems. His wife was too busy working and had no time for him. He was just a poor poor man in an unhappy marriage. He wanted a divorce and he was in love. My SIL begged, pleaded and sort of give him permission to work it out of his system. The entire family came down on him and then, he decided he was going to stay in the marriage. But guess, what he still calls her, to find out how she is doing. Now he throws his A back to my SIL and let her know, how much he enjoyed the OW. Why she is still with him, I don't know. She does not want to give up their live style .

So, my advice to you is don't backdown. You let him know what your boundaries are and what the consequences will be if he continues this path. You don't give him an inch of allowance. Because if you do, he will never respect you and the boundaries you set forth. 

You stay focus. The end goal is to get strong and be independent. If there is an R then, great. You will be stronger and have learned about yourself. If not, then, you have the tools to carry on by yourself. 

You go girl.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Day 2. Thanks everyone for the support. It's hard to put a brave face on when you're feeling broken inside. But I'm doing it the best I can. I'm focusing on being cheerful and not seeking any reassurances from him. It's a tricky line sometimes, acting like everything is fine and being cheerful while knowing it's not fine but you can't seek comfort from the one who used to give it to you.


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Emma, I got the I love you but I'm not in love with you any more. My husband moved out for about a year. During that time the more needy I was the more he pulled away. The more independent I was the more he came closer. This was a heart wrenching time for me. Doing the 180 was so hard and I slipped a lot. In the end it all worked out. My husband has been home for a little over a year. Our relationship is so much stronger than it was for a couple of years leading up to that time. A lot has changed. I love him more than ever but I also know that I can be just fine with out him. I didn't know that at first. The separation taught me that. We have been married 17 years and have two teen children.

Keep doing what you are doing. Keep working the 180. Keep getting your ducks in a row. If he wants to work on the marriage with you then do it. If he expects you to do all the work then forget it. There's two people in the marriage. Both have to work on it. It won't work if just one does. That time was the most heart break I've ever been through but I wound up so much stronger for it.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

If you file for divorce he can't keep you as a backup if ow doesn't work out.

Keep that in mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> Agreed with MMR. Talking about it and asking him all the questions has gotten me no where. He just gets really irritated. Tells me I'm emotionally needy, annoying, etc. So I don't talk to him about it. I don't talk to him about much.


seems to be a 100% repeat rate on that line.

about time someone wrote it in the manuals.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Wow Hopeful, sorry to hear you went through that. I had no idea until I got on TAM this week that so many other couples struggle with the exact same things as us. All you see is the happy Facebook posts about how in love everyone is. And most of our friends at least from the outside seem to have it so together. But I'm realizing how much pain is often hid just below the surface. 

I'm glad things have worked out for you and your Husband, Hopeful. A year is a long time to be separated! But that's awesome that your marriage is stronger for it. It gives me hope.


----------



## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> Hi guys. Well, made it through day one. Things were going OK but this afternoon I was reading the divorce papers (just from our state juducial website), just to get my ducks in a row and sort of start figuring out what it might look like. He came into the room as I was looking them over and went nuts. He grabbed the papers out of my hand and threw them at the wall, yelling that I shouldn't be making plans for divorce if I'm trying to make things better.
> 
> I calmly told him I was simply getting my ducks in a row since he often says he wants to leave. I calmly gathered the papers and he again grabbed then away and threw them again (I think I'll need to print a new set, they're pretty beat up).
> 
> ...


....am I misreading this, or is he truly saying that it is YOUR job to make things better? Purely and simply he is the one that screwed up, and it is his job to trying to put things back as best possible. Your reactions are reasonable and typical. His are not the reactions of a spouse that is truly sorry. The divorce papers touched a button within him........use that to your benefit. A full separation, or you filing for divorce, may provide him with a come to God moment, and he will realize what he is about to lose for just a fantasy. I know, I have been there. Be firm with him.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi Onemoreguy, thanks for the response. Interesting you've been there. How did you turn around? 

He's unclear on what he wants, probably because he doesn't know himself. He says he wants to work on things, but he also says it's hard since he doesn't feel anything for me. His idea of working on things is ignoring issues and just giving it time. 

As I mentioned, he also wants physical space from me. I don't know what to read into that. I'm 99% sure he has no contact with the OW, but I don't know if he still harbors feelings for her. 

But I'm trying not to worry about all of that, why he acts like he does, what he might be thinking, etc. Because I drive myself crazy and none of it is in my control. Today is my day 3 of the 180 and I'm actually feeling pretty good. I have to remind myself throughout the day and have a list on my phone that I refer to that helps. 

It doesn't feel like the right time for an ultimatum but I get what you're saying. I think I want to give this 180 thing some time. See if it helps our situation. My ultimate goal is to keep our marriage/family together and happy.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Also, I just wanted to add..this seems to be a common theme for men nearing their 40's. It's like all of the sudden they see all these flaws in their wives and think they could do better, that maybe their soul mate is still waiting for them out there. Call me old fashioned but I just don't think that's the case much of the time. I mean, breaking up a family and all the mess it creates just because someone thinks they might be happier with someone else..seems totally selfish and short-sighted to me. Plus, the people we attract are just as selfish and flawed as we are, it can just take a few years to see it in the next person. 

But that's what my husband tells me, he thinks he might be happier with someone else. I can't rationalize with him, that gets us no where.Hoping we can ride through to the other side of the tunnel where he sees how foolish he's being. But again, not in my control and I'm trying to accept that.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

oneMOreguy said:


> ....am I misreading this, or is he truly saying that it is YOUR job to make things better? Purely and simply he is the one that screwed up, and it is his job to trying to put things back as best possible. Your reactions are reasonable and typical. His are not the reactions of a spouse that is truly sorry. The divorce papers touched a button within him........use that to your benefit. A full separation, or you filing for divorce, may provide him with a come to God moment, and he will realize what he is about to lose for just a fantasy. I know, I have been there. Be firm with him.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Emma957 said:


> Also, I just wanted to add..this seems to be a common theme for men nearing their 40's. It's like all of the sudden they see all these flaws in their wives and think they could do better, that maybe their soul mate is still waiting for them out there. Call me old fashioned but I just don't think that's the case much of the time. I mean, breaking up a family and all the mess it creates just because someone thinks they might be happier with someone else..seems totally selfish and short-sighted to me. Plus, the people we attract are just as selfish and flawed as we are, it can just take a few years to see it in the next person.
> 
> But that's what my husband tells me, he thinks he might be happier with someone else. I can't rationalize with him, that gets us no where.Hoping we can ride through to the other side of the tunnel where he sees how foolish he's being. But again, not in my control and I'm trying to accept that.


You are right, it is totally selfish, but cheaters are selfish, bottom line!
What happens they are missing out on 20-30% with their spouse, as noone is perfect (they forget that they themselves are not perfect either) and go looking for it and then realise when they have lost everything that they found the 20-30% that was missing but the new AP is missing maybe 40-50% of what they had in their now XBS. Stupid I know but they are not thinking. How many people have I met who regret getting married a second time and throwing in the first marriage for what they thought was far away fields being greener.

Emma you are doing well, just stick with the 180 and you will be better for you, you may not want him at the end of it all! :smile2:


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Emma it's great that you already realize that you can not control certain things. You can control you. Take your time and and do what's best for you. Have you talked about counseling? If he wants space than give it to him. Make sure he does everything for himself. Don't live in limbo land to long though. He has to make a decision. Work on the marriage or move on. Sounds like you've already made yours and that's to work on the marriage. It takes two to work on a marriage though. If he's not doing it then don't do it yourself.

I know you said you are 99% sure he's not in contact with her but try to verify. That 1% can be toxic.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I read his request for physical space from you as a sign he either is cheating, or he wants to. If he wanted to work on issues with you, he would be there, with you, working on them. But wanting to physically separate likely indicates that he wants to test the waters with other women. Not good.

And yes, his expectation that somehow you should magically fix his issues is BS. They are his issues, and only he can fix, work on, or repair them. This is selfish and unrealistic.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> Also, I just wanted to add..this seems to be a common theme for men nearing their 40's. It's like all of the sudden they see all these flaws in their wives and think they could do better, that maybe their soul mate is still waiting for them out there. Call me old fashioned but I just don't think that's the case much of the time. I mean, breaking up a family and all the mess it creates just because someone thinks they might be happier with someone else..seems totally selfish and short-sighted to me. Plus, the people we attract are just as selfish and flawed as we are, it can just take a few years to see it in the next person.
> 
> But that's what *my husband tells me, he thinks he might be happier with someone else*. I can't rationalize with him, that gets us no where.Hoping we can ride through to the other side of the tunnel where he sees how foolish he's being. But again, not in my control and I'm trying to accept that.


while it is sometimes true that we can 'find someone else that we are happier with', there is a more accurate maxim that _'if we are not happy where we are, we will not find happiness elsewhere.'_

your husband is just not happy and is taking it out on your marriage. btw, i think you are doing the right thing. giving him space and working on you. also monitoring whether he is still in contact with om (deal breaker).


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

I'm not sure what to make of his request for space. Sometimes the loneliness is suffocating. I lay awake at night wishing I could have intimacy but knowing he'd reject me if I tried. I cry, or read, or stare at the ceiling wondering what happened to my marriage. I've lost so much weight from all this (the baby weight and more) a few friends have asked me if I am ok. I've also had friends say "I hate you, you're so skinny after having a baby. It's not fair." Oh but if you only knew why I'm skinny, I want to tell them. If you only knew the emotional hell I'm in, why I can't eat. 

If nothing else this has taught me to love people more, because I think we're all suffering more than any of us shows on the outside. Today is my day 4.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am sorry if this has already been suggested, but how about just letting him go?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

From what you say, he is following the typical script:

- He has an A & in the run-up to it and in the throes of it, you become the wallpaper in his life. He stops SEEING you as the individual that you are and as the special person that he loves.

- He mistakes this for some grand feeling and experience & believes it is telling him that he has moved on from you in his heart.

- He is busted and still wants her. He sees you as an impediment to what his heart really wants. You aren't the wallpaper anymore. Now you're his old life that he is unhappily anchored to. You're an albatross.

- He thinks he's a tragic hero. Must he sacrifice what his heart tells him he needs for the greater good of his commitments and family? (LOL at this. The cognitive dissonance is almost too much.)

- He's decided he will give it the college try and when he can't reconcile, he will be able to tell himself that he did everything he could. He is still actively in touch with her secretly to make sure that she isn't giving up on him & he is promising her that he is extracting himself, but it will take time. He has a family, after all....

Part of this script sometimes is that the WS starts SEEING the BS again and then can't believe how he/she fvcked everything up. At this point, the WS has done so much damage that the BS doesn't necessarily want him/her back.

The reengagement of the WS in this way doesn't always happen. It's just one variation, but it happens enough to be a pattern.

Please stay resolute with the 180. This is the best way to build yourself up against what he is doing to you. He is attacking your heart and you need to protect it. Detach yourself as much as possible. Ironically, this is the one way to perhaps make him SEE you again.

Act independent. Take care with your looks and appearance. Try some new things. Make plans with friends. Be more active than you might otherwise be. Show him the person that doesn't need him. The more you follow the 180 and detach from him, the better off you are under any circumstance.

Always remember that he has no right to jerk your life around. It's your life, not his. Right now he thinks he's a gift to you. You have to keep reminding yourself that you are the gift, to yourself and to the people in your life. Who is he to devalue you? Funk that noise.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> From what you say, he is following the typical script:
> 
> - He has an A & in the run-up to it and in the throes of it, you become the wallpaper in his life. He stops SEEING you as the individual that you are and as the special person that he loves.
> 
> ...


Very astute. Well said.


----------



## erlingyiwu (Nov 22, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> I'm sorry you find yourself here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pluto, I love what u said here, it's best i ever seen how to deal with a cheating partner. 

AND also i like yur profile of " In youth it was a way I had, to do my best to please, And change, with every passing lad to suit his theories.
But now I know the things I know, and do the things I do; And if you do not like me so, To hell, my love, with you! --Dorothy Parker" which fit my situation and Emma's situation here. Best Ever. For Real

i sense my hb has cheat on me years ago, that's why i stop doing things around the house for him, and hb always create sh.t around to irritate me, i didn't how to get even, after years of living with a evil hb, i learned to do same things as he does, he throw my things all around the flr, make it look like his kids from his past marriage did, i do the same thing to him, too. 

the only thing i didn't repeat after him is cheating. 

maybe Emma you can try my way. i was hurt and angry like u, i got heart attack of what he hb has done to me, after stop doing things for him, repeat irritating things after him, i don't get angry any more, i don't even get upset or sad when he lies to me constantly of can't come home as long as 2- 3 wks, in every other month. 

stop doing things for you hb, and start to hang out with yur friends again, or just go out to have time for yur self, leave kid to him, let him practice now what he is going to get if u divorce him: he is going to have kids all by himself, cook for him, wash for him, clean up after kids, bath kids, ALL BY HIMSELF. plus, this will physically worn him out and he will lose interest and energy for his affair. 

When u do above, Smile, Sweet, let him see u r happy, and give him no excuse about your ANGER.


----------



## erlingyiwu (Nov 22, 2015)

Emma, i had felt Walking dad after sensing hb who wants his Space is cheating on me, then i started to WALK every day for min. 60 minutes, it really works after 1 year of walking, i am now teaching my kids to sing" 

Walking Walking Walking
Walking away sadness
Walking away depress
Walking away sleepless
Walking away angry
Walking away lonly

Walling make me Healthier
Walking make me Happy
Walking make me Sleepy
Walking make me pretty


try to walk everyday, u will find you can be happy anyway without ur cheating hb, and he will feel Your Walk seems is more important than him in your life, then he will chase just my hb, who now wants to buy me expensive jewelry, man is animal, man is chaser, treat ur cheating hb like a real man- a chaser, make him chase u.


good lucky, happy holiday!!!


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

I think it should be noted this is not just men nearing their 40s. My ex wife was the same way, except that she did not express it to me until AFTER she had made up her mind. I basically did the 180 (without knowing what it was). It has been about 2 years since she told me she wanted a divorce; she did not file though and I went ahead and filed (why be with someone who doesnt want to be with you?). I think that threw her ,but she went with it. Sure enough, last summer she made it pretty clear she wanted to get back together. 

What made it (very slightly) easier was just learning about relationship dynamics, mid life crisis, walk away spouse, self-improvement/growth (becoming your best self for you and no one else). You can get to a place where you are happy no matter who is in your life or what your circumstances are, and when you get there you chose who gets your time and attention. 

And be thankful for your health. 4 weeks after my divorce became final, at the age of 42, I found out I had cancer and went some brutal treatment that was much worse than divorce. And divorce with 2 kids is no fun for anyone.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Wow MMR. Cancer after divorce. I can't imagine. Thanks for your words. You're right, it's not just men, just seems from what I hear more common in men. But women can be just as selfish. I mean, the woman my H got involved with was married too, she almost left her husband for mine. That would've been a train wreck. Maybe still will be..

I feel like I should've learned these lessons of loving myself and being emotionally independent a long time ago.. not when I'm in my 30's! But maybe that's why I have to go through this now.


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Emma, How are You?


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi Hopeful, thanks for checking. I'm hanging in there! Nothing really to report I guess. Just trying to stay out of his way and stay positive. We haven't fought in a few days, but we also haven't interacted much. I've been writing a lot which feels good..therapeutic I guess.


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you are hanging in there and continuing with the 180. Sounds like a MLC going on. Keep getting your ducks in a row and keep doing things for you. Maybe find a hobby that will take you out of the house sometimes


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Also remember We are here for you


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Emma

I am a firm believer in giving the WS what they ask for.

Doing the 180 is great for you.

But go one step further.

Give him space. Show him what his life will be like without you and the kids in it.

Do events with your kids. Be the single parent. Have fun with your kids.

And when he asks " where were you?" Or he asks " Why was I not invited?"

You respond by telling him that you are giving him the space he asked for.

Then walk away.

Stop thinking of the OW. She does not hold a candle to you and never will.

Be the strong, independent woman who needs no lousy man in her life.

He will either wake up or not.

HM


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

True what Happyman said. Sometimes you don't know what you have until it's gone. Your husband may not realize that while you are still there. My husband kept me in limbo land for over a year. I had to force the separation in order for him to come to that realization. Then we separated for a year. He only realized it when I forced him to mediation and started moving on. I think we were both going through a MLC. Now we are doing great. I've never felt so loved as I do now. Have you discussed counseling with him?


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Yes, definitely a mid life crises. He admits that much. I didn't think they were supposed to last two years though. 

I've realized he's blamed a lot of his problems on everyone/everything but himself. I'm starting to detach myself from that and not let myself get so pulled into/blamed for his issues. 

For example, he says he's been unhappy these past few years but he's naturally a happy person and this has caused him to wonder if it's because of our marriage, if he'd be happier without me, or with someone else. That's the kind of stuff that crushes me when he says it, but I'm trying to keep my emotional distance from it. 

He's in a sort of mental fog right now and I feel like one day he'll wake up from it and be like, "oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I can't believe how badly I've treated you these past few years. You're amazing and I love you." At least I hope he'll come to like that one day.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

This is hard, this whole 180 thing. As much as I try to convince myself I'll be fine without him, I can't help but feel at times so lonely and mourning for the love that we had. I don't know how to make these feelings go away. I want so bad for him to love me again it is physically painful. I haven't told him this recently but I've expressed similar sentements in the past. I'm really trying to stay strong but feeling so lonely inside. I feel like everything I've read on this subject points out that my feeling this way is unhealthy and too needy. I also feel like trying to supress my feelings is like trying to tell myself I don't need water when I'm dying of thirst.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Emma957 said:


> This is hard, this whole 180 thing. As much as I try to convince myself I'll be fine without him, I can't help but feel at times so lonely and mourning for the love that we had. I don't know how to make these feelings go away. I want so bad for him to love me again it is physically painful. I haven't told him this recently but I've expressed similar sentements in the past. I'm really trying to stay strong but feeling so lonely inside. I feel like everything I've read on this subject points out that my feeling this way is unhealthy and too needy. I also feel like trying to supress my feelings is like trying to tell myself I don't need water when I'm dying of thirst.


It is like a diet, sweetheart. Hard at first, but easier as it goes along.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

It is not unhealthy however begging/pleading etc for his love is going to LOWER his attraction level. 

Think about it this way-- are you happy right now? No. Would you be happier with someone else? You may not have considered it honestly, but MAYBE, just MAYBE, you would be. 

If your husband was thinking you would not be sticking around while he tries to make up his mind, he may quit dragging you through this. The 180 is supposed to be about making YOU feel better about YOURSELF, but at the same time he may see that if you are ok without him, you may decide to move on too. That changes his whole perspective. Right now he thinks you are going to be waiting around IF he decideds he wants to stay with you. If that option appears to be evaporating, he will be forced to deal with the reality of being divorced from you.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Emma,
Most folks are not able to do what you just did. They are simply unable to execute a clean transition to a 180. 

It hurts a lot at the beginning. A lot. 

My guess, this isn't going to take near as long to unravel as some of these situations. 

The reason I say that is simple. Your H is not a very strong person. First he gives you the whole routine of: I need space. And then he flips out when he sees you reading about divorce

And hug the kids a lot. 



Emma957 said:


> This is hard, this whole 180 thing. As much as I try to convince myself I'll be fine without him, I can't help but feel at times so lonely and mourning for the love that we had. I don't know how to make these feelings go away. I want so bad for him to love me again it is physically painful. I haven't told him this recently but I've expressed similar sentements in the past. I'm really trying to stay strong but feeling so lonely inside. I feel like everything I've read on this subject points out that my feeling this way is unhealthy and too needy. I also feel like trying to supress my feelings is like trying to tell myself I don't need water when I'm dying of thirst.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Emma,
I don't know why no one gives us 'the manual' when we get married. Most likely because we wouldn't believe any of it. 

A couple gentle reminders.

He cannot see you blink. He can't see you cry. He can't see any weakness or need.

That said, perfectly ok to cry, to scream and to rage. Just far out of his earshot. And the kids. You can't have the kids telling dad, that Mom is completely 5150/certifiable.....





Emma957 said:


> This is hard, this whole 180 thing. As much as I try to convince myself I'll be fine without him, I can't help but feel at times so lonely and mourning for the love that we had. I don't know how to make these feelings go away. I want so bad for him to love me again it is physically painful. I haven't told him this recently but I've expressed similar sentements in the past. I'm really trying to stay strong but feeling so lonely inside. I feel like everything I've read on this subject points out that my feeling this way is unhealthy and too needy. I also feel like trying to supress my feelings is like trying to tell myself I don't need water when I'm dying of thirst.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am amazed by your strength, Emma.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> This is hard, this whole 180 thing. As much as I try to convince myself I'll be fine without him, I can't help but feel at times so lonely and mourning for the love that we had. I don't know how to make these feelings go away. I want so bad for him to love me again it is physically painful. I haven't told him this recently but I've expressed similar sentements in the past. I'm really trying to stay strong but feeling so lonely inside. I feel like everything I've read on this subject points out that my feeling this way is unhealthy and too needy. I also feel like trying to supress my feelings is like trying to tell myself I don't need water when I'm dying of thirst.


The two of you went about R after the affair all wrong. You should not have been the one kissing HIS ass, he should have been kissing YOURS. He should have been expressing remorse, offered total transparency, gone to counseling, and worked daily to show you how much he loves you. He has TOLD you that he doesn't love you any more, WHY wont you believe him and let him go? Your groveling and ass kissing was nothing but a turn off for him, because no man wants a woman with no self respect. I know you don't want to hear this, but you don't love him....you love the IDEA of him, who you thought he was supposed to be (maybe who he USED to be) and the picture you have had in your mind all these years of how your life was SUPPOSED to be. This realization will come to you once you let him go. 

File for divorce. You deserve better than this.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@RoseAglow

Rose, just wanted to let you know this is where I wanted to quote you. 

Emma, Rose had shared recently that her understanding was that men did better in plan a and women in plan b. I asked her if I could quote her on that, and she added some further thoughts: 

_"Hi jld! It's more that Plan A is very difficult emotionally, and most women can only do it for a short time before it begins to actually harm them. Men generally can hang in there longer. Women tend to thrive in Plan B. I haven't read about very many men in Plan B, unless they've gone to divorce. I think men do ok in plan B too, they just aren't encouraged very often to go in it. The idea is that without a good plan A, not very many waywards will want to come back to the marriage, even if the affair breaks up. 

Plan A is too hard to say that men do well while in it. But those who can pull it off come out of it with increased emotional strength, confidence, marital/interpersonal skills...and often, an intact family."_

Thanks again, Rose. 

I hope that is encouraging, Emma. Just take it one day at a time. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Not sure what you're referring to in plan A and B?


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Emma,
See link below. 

Plan A is essentially a head to head competition with an affair partner. You 'act' like everything is normal and wait for your spouse to give up the affair. To be precise you 'nicely' ask them to end the affair, but you don't threaten or yell or judge them.

Plan B is closer to what you are now doing. It's a total 180. 


What Are Plan A and Plan B?





Emma957 said:


> Not sure what you're referring to in plan A and B?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

What Are Plan A and Plan B?
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> This is hard, this whole 180 thing. As much as I try to convince myself I'll be fine without him, I can't help but feel at times so lonely and mourning for the love that we had. I don't know how to make these feelings go away. I want so bad for him to love me again it is physically painful. I haven't told him this recently but I've expressed similar sentements in the past. I'm really trying to stay strong but feeling so lonely inside. I feel like everything I've read on this subject points out that my feeling this way is unhealthy and too needy. I also feel like trying to supress my feelings is like trying to tell myself I don't need water when I'm dying of thirst.


You can't make these feelings go away today. The 180 helps you to detach so that slowly, over time, those feelings change. Unfortunately, you have to go through the process now - he has dictated that reality - and the process is painful. It is not unhealthy and needy to feel the way you do right now. It is unhealthy and needy to show it. 

The 180 is a 'fake it till you make it' way of changing your behavior until it becomes a part of your mindset. If you read about it, you will see that it can really help with healthy detachment. Healthy detachment is what will eventually lessen the pain you feel.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks for the link to A and B. Makes sense. I've been on that site before, lots of good info. I like what you said Alte Dame. I can't control my thoughts but I can control my actions, and my thoughts will follow with time.

I really messed up in the early days after I discovered the affair two years ago. I was anything but emotionally detached. I was so full of rage and anger and hurt. Also 6 months pregnant. I saw a really unpleasant side of me come out and it was really hard for me to forgive my husband and my friend for what they did. Also difficult was finding pieces of the conversations, etc from my own searches or the OW's husband who would call and tell me stuff he found. That would set me back, and also the fact that they continued to interact, albeit minimally, for almost a year. His argument was they never were physical and they still had common friends and non of it was a big deal. But it was a big enough deal to him that he had told her at one point he fantasized about running away with her (I got to hear that from her husband who was equally crushed). He told me to forget about that because it was something said in the heat of the moment that he didn't mean. 

Basically, in his mind I blew everything way out of proportion for something that wasn't 'even a real affair' and I should've been more forgiving then we wouldn't be where we are now. Maybe to an extent he's right, I mean I'm sure I could've handled it better. I could've kicked him out the very first time I found this out and made him decide between me and her. But instead I let it drag on all this time. Really all we've done is kick issues down the curb that never got resolved and now, almost two years after the initial shock of it, our marriage is still suffering greatly. I think about separation more and more but from what I've read that often ends in divorce. I feel like if there's any hope left here it would be for us to face the issues together. But for now, I'm doing the 180 then maybe we can face them down the road..I don't know. I'm probably not making any sense. Hard day. Thanks for the support everyone.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Emma,

Your child is the perfect age for pillow fighting. That needs to become part of your daily routine. Pillow fighting a laughing. 

If H eventually decides to join in - LET HIM. Keep it light. 

The rules of engagement are simple:
- Don't let him see weakness
- Where possible let him see strength and playfullness directed at your children
- Let HIM come to YOU, when he does, let him play

After any positive interaction - refrain from saying:
- That was fun 
- Lets do that again
- I miss you 

If HE says any of those things - smile and say: good

That's it. Don't even mention how you feel. Just respond positively to him opening up. 

At some point he may initiate sex. Don't reject him. 

But afterwards - no clinging. None. If he wants to hold you. Good. Let him. But don't hold HIM. 

By the way. None of this is fair. This is solely about repairing the marriage so the kids benefit. Eventually - if you succeed - he will feel intense remorse. 

And for clarity - this approach is universally appealing. If you can execute on it, it maximizes the chance of a full recon. 

If he didn't care about the marriage, the divorce research wouldn't have upset him. 

One last thing. Text is the best way for you to minimize interaction with him. Maximize your use of texting and minimize conversation until he is coming to you. 





Emma957 said:


> Thanks for the link to A and B. Makes sense. I've been on that site before, lots of good info. I like what you said Alte Dame. I can't control my thoughts but I can control my actions, and my thoughts will follow with time.
> 
> I really messed up in the early days after I discovered the affair two years ago. I was anything but emotionally detached. I was so full of rage and anger and hurt. Also 6 months pregnant. I saw a really unpleasant side of me come out and it was really hard for me to forgive my husband and my friend for what they did. Also difficult was finding pieces of the conversations, etc from my own searches or the OW's husband who would call and tell me stuff he found. That would set me back, and also the fact that they continued to interact, albeit minimally, for almost a year. His argument was they never were physical and they still had common friends and non of it was a big deal. But it was a big enough deal to him that he had told her at one point he fantasized about running away with her (I got to hear that from her husband who was equally crushed). He told me to forget about that because it was something said in the heat of the moment that he didn't mean.
> 
> Basically, in his mind I blew everything way out of proportion for something that wasn't 'even a real affair' and I should've been more forgiving then we wouldn't be where we are now. Maybe to an extent he's right, I mean I'm sure I could've handled it better. I could've kicked him out the very first time I found this out and made him decide between me and her. But instead I let it drag on all this time. Really all we've done is kick issues down the curb that never got resolved and now, almost two years after the initial shock of it, our marriage is still suffering greatly. I think about separation more and more but from what I've read that often ends in divorce. I feel like if there's any hope left here it would be for us to face the issues together. But for now, I'm doing the 180 then maybe we can face them down the road..I don't know. I'm probably not making any sense. Hard day. Thanks for the support everyone.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

So many people come here and express shock at what they became upon finding out about a WS's affair. I remember when this happened to me when I was young - I raged and took all his things and threw them out into the middle of the road in a rain storm. To say this was never me is an understatement. We all can do this.

To equate your behavior with his in any way, though, creates false responsibility and false equivalency. If he were truly remorseful (since, after all, he has been in an affair fog, even if he won't admit it), he would have long ago realized that your behavior was a reflex of your deep, deep hurt.

He doesn't get that, though, because his head is still in the A. No matter what he says, he is still playing out the script.

So, please give yourself a break. I submit that he would be doing the same thing no matter how you reacted at the time.

180. 180. Your path out.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Emma957 said:


> Yes, definitely a mid life crises. He admits that much. I didn't think they were supposed to last two years though.
> 
> I've realized he's blamed a lot of his problems on everyone/everything but himself. I'm starting to detach myself from that and not let myself get so pulled into/blamed for his issues.
> 
> ...


My ex wife said almost that exact Bullsh88 to me. ANd it IS all Bu**SH**. If he is "naturally a happy person" how could he be unhappy for the last few years, when you've done nothing to cause his unhappiness. You are not responsible for his happiness. If he put all his energy into building his relationship with you instead of sulking and looking for an new woman, he'd probably be a lot happier.

My ex sounded upset and angry on the phone the other day when we were talking about the kids. I had done nothing to disturb her. After I got off the phone I asked my son-- "what's wrong with your mother?" He said, she's just mad... I said, "Is she mad at ME for something??" His response, "No, she's just mad in general".
Hmmm, what about that naturally happy person????
The other day, she had to get off the phone about the kids because she was at the Dr's office getting diet pills--- the same ones that she was always irritable and hyper with that I didn't know she was taking back when we were married. She has high blood pressure as a result of all the phentermine but blames it on ME...

I'm rambling.... Point is, he was unhappy because he's an unhappy person---- had nothing to do because of YOU.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Huh, that's good to know it's not just me. And maybe I'm not really as crazy as he told me I was. The worst of it was a few yelling/swearing episodes like a drunken sailor. But those only happened after he continued contact. I kind of felt like I had a right to call them both every name in the book. ..but maybe I should've used more self control. I was also pretty cold to him for a while. 

Continuing the 180 then. I should probably make more friends. I'm grateful for the support here..but I think I need some more live ones too.


----------



## ivory (Oct 23, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> My husband got emotionally involved with a family friend 2 years ago. he's not sure he's in love with me anymore.


What a #1 Jerk this guy is. He's just an aged little snot that you don't need. Lose this piece of crap. You can do better and it would be hard to do worse. Kids will be fine, certainly better off.


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi Emma! Glad to see all the awesome advice you are getting. Yes, make friends. Live your life to it's fullest with or without him. Do keep your feelings hidden. As said above don't let him see you blink. He started all of this now let him fix it. He should do the heavy lifting if he wants to work on the marriage. Make him earn it. Do't let him keep you in limbo land to long. He needs to man up and make a decision and follow through with it.

Funny story. While my husband and I were separated he bought and read the book His Needs Her Needs. While we were together I wanted us to work on the marriage and he refused to read the book with me or do anything to work on the marriage. I found out he read it while we were separated because he called me drunk one night talking about not filling up my love bank. Wish he would have read it while we were together but I guess he had to do things his way


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Emma,

Good plan. Friends with young children are great. 

If you want, keep a feelings journal. A short summary every night on how the day was overall. Give it a score - 1-10 from worst to best. Watch what happens over time. 

You're tough - in the best possible way. Shows in your writing style. 






Emma957 said:


> Huh, that's good to know it's not just me. And maybe I'm not really as crazy as he told me I was. The worst of it was a few yelling/swearing episodes like a drunken sailor. But those only happened after he continued contact. I kind of felt like I had a right to call them both every name in the book. ..but maybe I should've used more self control. I was also pretty cold to him for a while.
> 
> Continuing the 180 then. I should probably make more friends. I'm grateful for the support here..but I think I need some more live ones too.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks guys. I've been writing a lot. And unfortunately tonight my husband saw me writing in my journal and came over and demanded to read what I was writing. He read it out loud and much of it was unflattering to him. He proceeded to rip out pages of my journal that he didn't like, despite my pleads for him to just give it back to me. He said it was stupid that I was keeping a journal of negatives about him and that it was a completely selfish and crazy thing for me to do. So.. maybe I'll keep an online journal instead. All those pages.. so much writing and he tore it all up. 
Hopefully tomorrow will be better.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Honestly. This is the man who has told you he is not in love with you anymore, might (just might) be able to feel something again for you, blames you for his unhappiness, and has had an affair with a friend of yours (yes, an affair!). 

He flips out when he sees divorce papers and rips up your personal writing.

It sounds to me like he has felt like he has the upper hand emotionally for a long time and is now starting to feel like the control isn't complete. You might actually have some ideas of your own about your life...

Keep building your independence. The more you refuse to kowtow to him, the better you will feel, in my opinion.

Keep writing. Journaling is very helpful for a BS. He can rip it up, but that won't make your feelings disappear.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Emma,

That is quite simply outrageous. Online is good. That said - lock down your devices. And set them up so you can hit a keystroke combination that instantly puts them in password protection mode. 

I'm actually not big on punishment but this is an exception. I'd force him into 100% text communication mode until he apologizes. 

This is beyond the fog.




Emma957 said:


> Thanks guys. I've been writing a lot. And unfortunately tonight my husband saw me writing in my journal and came over and demanded to read what I was writing. He read it out loud and much of it was unflattering to him. He proceeded to rip out pages of my journal that he didn't like, despite my pleads for him to just give it back to me. He said it was stupid that I was keeping a journal of negatives about him and that it was a completely selfish and crazy thing for me to do. So.. maybe I'll keep an online journal instead. All those pages.. so much writing and he tore it all up.
> Hopefully tomorrow will be better.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

And cloud based storage for whatever you write.

Google docs or its equivalent. AND you give your user ID and password to ONE person you love and trust. Make sure they write it down somewhere safe. 



QUOTE=Emma957;14376442]Thanks guys. I've been writing a lot. And unfortunately tonight my husband saw me writing in my journal and came over and demanded to read what I was writing. He read it out loud and much of it was unflattering to him. He proceeded to rip out pages of my journal that he didn't like, despite my pleads for him to just give it back to me. He said it was stupid that I was keeping a journal of negatives about him and that it was a completely selfish and crazy thing for me to do. So.. maybe I'll keep an online journal instead. All those pages.. so much writing and he tore it all up. 
Hopefully tomorrow will be better.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Emma,
> 
> That is quite simply outrageous. Online is good. That said - lock down your devices. And set them up so you can hit a keystroke combination that instantly puts them in password protection mode.
> 
> ...


I agree. Nip the disrespectful behavior in the bud now, on principle. You said he threw some papers and is now ripping out diary pages? No. Sorry he can't do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> And cloud based storage for whatever you write.
> 
> Google docs or its equivalent. AND you give your user ID and password to ONE person you love and trust. Make sure they write it down somewhere safe.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

What he did was illegal as it included threatening behaviour and deliberate destruction of your property.

You need legal protection before he gets any worse
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Sadly the fact that he and your friend have something in common increases the chances of their compatibility - they both find you valuable. Sadly she is an exotic to your normal, the forbidden fruit, and she isn't the homemaker-person that you have become to him.

Yes, he is being a complete a....
The only way for this to work would be for him to totally cease contact with her - ie treat it like a non-contact court order. she is in house, he leaves, or vice versa. But I get the feeling he is still in affair fog and won't handle that well at all. And sadly, I doubt if he's enjoyed this affair, that leopard won't change his spots, so it will happen again in the future.

So what did he used to get from your relationship that has changed over the last 6 - 18 months?


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> Thanks guys. I've been writing a lot. And unfortunately tonight my husband saw me writing in my journal and came over and demanded to read what I was writing. He read it out loud and much of it was unflattering to him. He proceeded to rip out pages of my journal that he didn't like, despite my pleads for him to just give it back to me. He said it was stupid that I was keeping a journal of negatives about him and that it was a completely selfish and crazy thing for me to do. So.. maybe I'll keep an online journal instead. All those pages.. so much writing and he tore it all up.
> Hopefully tomorrow will be better.


Ugh. This happened to me at the end of my marriage (the first time) as well. I don't know if he tore it up or what he did with it, but he found it and took it, along with all of my photo-copied evidence of all of his ads he was posting and responding to on Craigslist. I thought I hid all that stuff pretty well, but I didn't......


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> He's unclear on what he wants, probably because he doesn't know himself. He says he wants to work on things, but he also says it's hard since he doesn't feel anything for me. *His idea of working on things is ignoring issues and just giving it time. *
> 
> As I mentioned, he also wants physical space from me. I don't know what to read into that. I'm 99% sure he has no contact with the OW, but I don't know if he still harbors feelings for her. .


This totally sounds like someone who has you as Plan B in case things don't pan out with the other woman. Maybe it's not the first person, maybe it's someone else, but his reaction to you and the divorce papers, etc. are the acts of a man who wants his cake and wants to eat it too. He doesn't want to be alone, and he'll take life with you if life with the other person doesn't happen. Just my opinion.

Also, violence is violence and him throwing the papers twice is violence. Don't be so sure it won't ever end up being against you. My ex punched many holes in walls and doors for years before he ever put bruises on me.


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Emma there has to be consequences for actions. That's how people learn. Some consequences bring good some bad. He has to learn that he can't treat you that way. He hurt you and you have the right to work through your feelings. You really might want to consider separation. Not everyone comes to their senses during this time but he's going to need something big to happen to come to his. Did the children see this interaction? They learn from their parents. Can't have them thinking it's ok to treat your spouse that way.


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

I do not know what the right thing to do in that situation is but I know his actions-- tearing out the pages of your writing-- is not acceptable. And his basically mocking you by reading it aloud is not congruent with what a husband should be. 

I hope somone can come in here and give you a good course of action regarding this particular incidence. Personally, and i am a man, I do not know how I would even get past this (as far as wanting to live and be in a relationship with this person).


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> My ex wife said almost that exact Bullsh88 to me. ANd it IS all Bu**SH**. If he is "naturally a happy person" how could he be unhappy for the last few years, when you've done nothing to cause his unhappiness. You are not responsible for his happiness. If he put all his energy into building his relationship with you instead of sulking and looking for an new woman, he'd probably be a lot happier.
> 
> My ex sounded upset and angry on the phone the other day when we were talking about the kids. I had done nothing to disturb her. After I got off the phone I asked my son-- "what's wrong with your mother?" He said, she's just mad... I said, "Is she mad at ME for something??" His response, "No, she's just mad in general".
> Hmmm, what about that naturally happy person????
> ...


this is absolutely true i believe. happy people can go through short periods of unhappiness when life throws sorrow at them. but they pull out of it and even experience some vestige of joy even during the storm.

when i was with my raging probably BPD partner and everything was dysfunctional and i never knew what i was coming home to, even then i could find joy in things.

yes, he's full of it.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Matt,
I agree that a legal(ish) type step ought to be taken here. Perhaps not that cops or lawyers ought be brought in. 

Emma,
I don't believe your H is currently a threat to you. However, like it or not ALL domestic violence starts out mild. 

In a healthy marriage there is a feedback loop. It is time to activate that loop. 

Me - personally - I don't think this warrants what I'd call a counter escalation. But I think a strong response is warranted. I would put this in an email.

H,

I need you to read this and reply. In writing. 

Recently there have been two incidents where you were physically aggressive. The first was on DATE. That was the night you ..... [Brief precise description of events]. 

The second was DATE, last night when you .....[brief description of events].

I need your absolute, unconditional promise that there will be no more of this. 

To date you've done nothing unforgivable. That said, we've now got a big problem. Which is that you haven't even asked my forgiveness. 

For now, I'll tolerate a simple, unconditional promise not to get physically aggressive with me or my stuff. 

I don't want a bullshlt apology - so don't give me one. 

If you are unable to provide me that assurance in writing I will do what needs to be done to protect myself. 

At this point, wouldn't make a prediction whether or not you end up with your dream girl. With absolute certainty, you keep this up and you won't have the option of ending up with THIS girl. 








What he did was illegal as it included threatening behaviour and deliberate destruction of your property.

You need legal protection before he gets any worse
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Agreed and thanks for all the advice guys. No the kids didn't see anything. We were in our room with the door closed. We've mostly kept this from them except they know things are strained between us.


----------



## ivory (Oct 23, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> he tore it all up.
> Hopefully tomorrow will be better.


What a complete jerk. More than most, I am caring compassionate and understanding. But you are making me not like this person at all. 

Throw him away like he threw your pages... well, like he is throwing you away!


----------



## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

i have a wordpress.com journal i like, i can access it from anywhere, pc, smartphone etc. I'd prefer a paper journal, but paper journals are just too difficult to hide. Just be careful not to click the remember my username/password button on any shared devices, as deleting is just as effective as ripping out pages.

And if you end up getting an online journal, it's best to register it to an alt email, or be absolutely sure that the journal website doesn't send anything to your regular use inbox. It's an easy trail to follow.


----------



## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

The online journal is a nice option, but the fact that she would have to worry about her spouse destroying her personal journal is troubling in itself....


----------



## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

MRR said:


> The online journal is a nice option, but the fact that she would have to worry about her spouse destroying her personal journal is troubling in itself....


Often times, journaling is the best way to establish a pattern of behavior. It keeps things from being distorted later.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi guys. Update here. Nothing major happened over the weekend. He didn't apologize for ripping up my journal but instead went to lengths to make me see his point of view that it was wrong for me to keep a journal of bad things about him. My thought was, if he's trying so hard to defend himself he must feel he might actually be in the wrong. 

Also, when things are going great I don't really feel a need to write them down but maybe I should. Keep things more balanced. I guess writing down the negatives seemed to be a healthy non-destructive (if no one reads them) way to get them off my chest. I get that he was hurt by what I wrote, but most of it was things he did or said to me..not just me ranting about how I don't like him. And yes, I'm writing online now. 

His solution to our unhappy marriage is "just give it time". That and he wants his space from me which I have given him. Man I miss sex. Just saying. It used to happen twice a week, like our whole 16 years of marriage before these last two crappy years. Now it's maybe once a month and it's been a month with no light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. I suppose that's contradictory, wanting to have sex with someone who hurts you emotionally. But, I'm still a human with human urges and being married and all, uh, I don't really have any other men to choose from. And no, I'm not going to ask him, just complaining here. 

So there's my update. Still doing the 180 I guess and kind of just hanging on. Oh, and I went to go see Spectre with a girlfriend this weekend. Can I just say, the eye gouging scene was totally unnecessary and gross. Wish I didn't see that part. But it felt good to get out with a friend.


----------



## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> Hi guys. Update here. Nothing major happened over the weekend. He didn't apologize for ripping up my journal but instead went to lengths to make me see his point of view that it was wrong for me to keep a journal of bad things about him. My thought was, if he's trying so hard to defend himself he must feel he might actually be in the wrong.
> 
> Also, when things are going great I don't really feel a need to write them down but maybe I should. Keep things more balanced. I guess writing down the negatives seemed to be a healthy non-destructive (if no one reads them) way to get them off my chest. I get that he was hurt by what I wrote, but most of it was things he did or said to me..not just me ranting about how I don't like him. And yes, I'm writing online now.
> 
> ...


It would have been wrong if you were falsely shaming him to all your friends and family, but they were true things, and the journal was for yourself. Is his attitude one of, "i didn't do anything wrong" or "I said i was sorry, and i don't know why you aren't over it yet", or something else. I'm not getting that he is remorseful at all. Has he ever been about the affair? Does he normally apologize when he has been wrong?
Why does he feel justified in destroying your things? That would never be acceptable anywhere else. 

When someone wants to stay in a relationship with you, but also is pushing you away physically and sexually, what could be the point of that?
How is he meeting his own needs? Could he be looking to withhold sex from you, to see if you revenge cheat or to punish you? Would that make him feel validated? Is he wanting to have you end the relationship, so that he can play innocent?

I feel like there's something going on there.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

The man is a selfish ass. You should have divorced him some time ago.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> Hi guys. Update here. Nothing major happened over the weekend. He didn't apologize for ripping up my journal but instead went to lengths to make me see his point of view that it was wrong for me to keep a journal of bad things about him. My thought was, if he's trying so hard to defend himself he must feel he might actually be in the wrong.
> 
> Also, when things are going great I don't really feel a need to write them down but maybe I should. Keep things more balanced. I guess writing down the negatives seemed to be a healthy non-destructive (if no one reads them) way to get them off my chest. I get that he was hurt by what I wrote, but most of it was things he did or said to me..not just me ranting about how I don't like him. And yes, I'm writing online now.
> 
> His solution to our unhappy marriage is "just give it time". That and he wants his space from me which I have given him. Man I miss sex. Just saying. It used to happen twice a week, like our whole 16 years of marriage before these last two crappy years. Now it's maybe once a month and it's been a month with no light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. I suppose that's contradictory, wanting to have sex with someone who hurts you emotionally. But, I'm still a human with human urges and being married and all, uh, I don't really have any other men to choose from. And no, I'm not going to ask him, just complaining here.


Lots of people make a pro / con list, nothing wrong with that. You're just writing down your experience, it probably helps you make sense of what is happening and is therapeutic. Sometimes you can't see how f***ed up something has become until you see through clear eyes. 

Who wouldn't be mad if he was cheating while you were pregnant? And confused? And hurt? You need just as much "personal space" as he does. It's funny how much more a woman will put up with vs. a man. It's like he wants you to feel sorry for him because his gf broke up with him. Poor li'l fella!

Now if he's too sad to have sex, I'd buy a vibrator, and this is _very important_ use it right in front of him and make it sound like the best you've ever had. If he tries to join in, say "that's ok honey, i've got this covered, I know you need your space".


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I know it's hard when you are living together, but it's to your advantage to discipline yourself as much as you can to detach from him. Don't let him draw you into discussions about things like your writing. Reread the 180 often to help reinforce the detaching strategies. Deciding to tailor the way you record your private thoughts to his sensibilities is not detaching. (It also defeats the purpose, I believe.)

Keep building yourself up. He's not in control of your life. You are. You will have a great, rewarding life if you do the work to rediscover the great person that you know you are.


----------



## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

If he needs his space so do you, and your space is your journal.

It is your journal so write what you want. Personally I would write the good as well as the bad, but that is me and not a suggestion for you to follow.

An on-line journal is necessary, but make sure it is protected. I have never needed a secure journal, but some ideas are:
Never save your password on any login screen, so no-one can borrow it.
Regularly send yourself copies of the journal to a secret email account, in case the journal is deleted. 
Make sure the journal wont be flushed either because you haven't posted recently or your free period has expired.

Maybe other posters can suggest a good site for a secure journal.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Emma, it is your right to journal and it is a therapeutic way of sorting out our own emotions and thoughts and absolutely nothing to do with him. In fact it seems as if he is taking the spotlight away from what he has been doing and putting it on you and what you have done 'wrong'. 
Your WH is a selfish git who should be on his knees begging your for a second chance. Instead he is acting as the victim!
Apart from the 180 have you told all your family and friends about his actions? You need to, your WH does not seem to have been hit by reality at all and thinks that things can be rug swept, he can keep you hanging on a string till he makes up his mind if he wants you or not. I guarantee you, he is still involved with her. You need to stop being so passive and light up his world, go and get those divorce papers ready, have you consulted with the lawyer, what has he/she said? 

Stick with the 180 and hopefully eventually you will make the decision to leave him, he doesnt deserve you.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Seriously, Emma? 

Is it so hard for a decent human being to say, "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have destroyed your journal." ?? 

Is it so hard for you to expect it? 

You ever read the book Why Does He Do That? There's a very good section on the significance of a man destroying YOUR things rather than just things or even his things.


----------



## time now for me (Dec 15, 2015)

Hi Emma

I am so sorry to hear about your issues with your husband. I think that destroying your journal was pretty dreadful. I have been reading your posts and feel that you and I have a very similar situation. 
I wish you and your kids all the very best.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Emma, good that you are hanging in there and working on the 180.

Your husband is blame shifting. He is removing the guilt from himself and placing it on you. Every cheater does it. 

You keep on your journaling. It's your personal thoughts, feeling and what he is telling you. You have every right to write them down. Too bad he feels hurt or attacked. This is your way to cope. 

He wronged you and now have the nerve to be offended. God, some people just don't get it.

It's great that you are going out. 

I agree with the other poster. Start telling people what he did. Before he rewrites history and makes it all your fault.

Chin-up me girl.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Emma why do you allow all of this?

I dont even know you but I am telling you this like you are my sister and I have two-get rid of this man. You deserve better.

Other members are telling you the same and we dont hate you or mean any hurt to you.

Stay strong my lady.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

brooklynAnn said:


> Emma, good that you are hanging in there and working on the 180.


Agree. You have to protect yourself, and you also have to send a message to your husband. This is necessary even if you want to save the marriage.

(Bear in mind that, sadly, it takes two to save a marriage. You have to do your best, and if it's enough, great. If not, you will at least know you did what you could.)



brooklynAnn said:


> You keep on your journaling. It's your personal thoughts, feeling and what he is telling you. You have every right to write them down. Too bad he feels hurt or attacked. This is your way to cope.
> 
> He wronged you and now have the nerve to be offended. God, some people just don't get it.


I agree it is your right to keep a journal, but I am going to give you another side of the discussion. At some stage, if things get better, you are going to want trust, and intimacy, and if he thinks you are sitting there writing nasty things about him behind his back, that is going to be an issue.

If all the negative stuff you are journaling is about the specifics of the current situation, then there is probably no issue. It's obviously upsetting and of course you are going to say some negatives in working through it.

If you are writing negative stuff that is not about the current situation, then at some stage you need to deal with these other issues you have written about. It's important that you communicate and deal with issues as a couple. And damaging if you don't and he finds out from somewhere else what you say behind his back.



brooklynAnn said:


> I agree with the other poster. Start telling people what he did. Before he rewrites history and makes it all your fault.


This is common advice on TAM, but I don't see the point to picking a fight unless you want to have one. It can backfire big time. Think of the collateral damage....like how it might be for the kids to hear this stuff third hand, or whether your friends really want to be dragged into your situation and encourages to take sides.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi guys. Me again. I agree with Wazza about a few things here. Maybe the negatives shouldn't go in a journal, but rather something I can later, if/when things are better, destroy. I wouldn't like finding negatives things he wrote about me. I get that, just didn't like the way he handled it. 

I don't think I should tell people about our situation. If things get better, it will make it that much harder if the whole world knows. Plus it makes it harder to get better in the first place. 

For some reason he's fallen out of love with me. From what I've read this is actually a fairly common relationship problem, albeit maybe not to the extent I'm dealing with but it happens. I'm trying to view his current actions as in 'clouded judgement' and not be hurt by them because this isn't who I married, and his actions are out of my control and not my fault. I can only control my actions, my choice to be happy. 

I know many of you advise me to divorce him, but throwing away an 17 yr marriage that has mostly been good is really not that easy. I agree if things don't change at some point I'll have to make that call, but for now I'm trying to make it work. 

Thanks again for the support and advice, I read and appreciate all.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Emma, has it occurred to you that rather than look at it as throwing away a 17 year marriage you should view it as forcing his hand? Right now he knows he can dither because you're waiting for him, and it makes you look like something of lesser value that's not to be treasured. He can consider whether he can do better and whether it's worth it and you're sitting in the background waiting for him.

Few things are less attractive then someone who's where they're not wanted.

Filing for divorce might wake him up and send the message that you are to be valued and if he doesn't you'll be gone and find someone who does. 

Psychology is a funny thing.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Emma,

In an earlier post you said that he claimed he fell out of love because you weren't meeting his needs. 

Did he ever tell you specifically what he meant by that? Do you believe he was being truthful, or simply rewriting history because he was in the fog......






Emma957 said:


> Hi guys. Me again. I agree with Wazza about a few things here. Maybe the negatives shouldn't go in a journal, but rather something I can later, if/when things are better, destroy. I wouldn't like finding negatives things he wrote about me. I get that, just didn't like the way he handled it.
> 
> I don't think I should tell people about our situation. If things get better, it will make it that much harder if the whole world knows. Plus it makes it harder to get better in the first place.
> 
> ...


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Well I was hoping the 180 would be enough of a wake up call for him without having to file for divorce. 

That's right, I did say that about not meeting his needs. He says he doesn't feel like we connect anymore, like I don't support him enough (but he's pretty ambiguous on what I could do better), that he doesn't know if I can meet his emotional needs. 

Our families are pretty different. My parents are practical, save, invest, are pretty well off. I think like that. I invest, save where I can, etc. He sometimes critisizes me for being too practical. Not spontaneous enough. His parents, not so well off, but his mom is a much warmer, talkative person than mine and I've always known he wants more of this and I try. It hasn't ever been a huge deal til these past two years. It's like, he used to like me for me, even though we're different but now he wants me to change. We're the classic 'opposites attract' scenario, except we kind of look alike. But the qualities he once admired about me he now sees as flaws. 

I guess I'm hoping the 180 and my positive attitude can turn things around. But I'm learning to accept if not, it could be over and I'll be ok.


----------



## AlanaK (Dec 1, 2015)

I am in EXACT same situation so I feel your pain. I cant stand leaving in limbo. I am also planning to implement 180...for my own sanity.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

The idea of telling close friends and family is not to shame the cheating spouse. When family/friends know, they can talk to them, help wake them up and try to get them to see what they are doing.

Maybe telling his parents or siblings, so that they can say to him,"this is not you, what are you doing". Remind them of that is important. 

It's not meant to be negative and blaming them. Someone other than you can talk to them and help them sort out their feelings. Maybe he needs someone to help guide him thru this time. This works especially if it's people he cares for and respect.

However, Emma you have to do what you feel comfortable with. This is your life and we are here to offer support and advice. You take what you need and what you can deal with now.

Keep doing your 180. You seem to have accepted what the options are if certain things continue and that says a lot of where your mindset is. Some people take a long time to get to your understanding. Which only makes them weak in the eyes of the cheater. It also erodes their self esteem and affect their health. 

So stay strong. I think at this point he is trying to blame shift every little problems you've had. Making it all seems like its your fault he cheated. Don't buy into this hogwash. He cheated because he wanted to when the opportunity presented itself.

Keep working on you. Don't ask him about his decision or how he is feeling. I would give myself a timeline and if he is not returning to the marriage and recommitting to me, then, I would file for divorce. But I will never beg anyone to choose me. Nor will I sit and wait for them to choose me. But this is just me.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> It's like, he used to like me for me, even though we're different but now he wants me to change. We're the classic 'opposites attract' scenario, except we kind of look alike. But the qualities he once admired about me he now sees as flaws.


This is totally common and happens to most couples. At first you love how he's friends with everybody and will go the extra mile for complete strangers, pretty soon it's super annoying because he'll give the shirt off his back to someone he doesn't know, while wasting family time. Don't change your core self for him! You can do things to make life more spontaneous or spice things up, that's not a big deal, but he's probably doing it at this time to justify to himself that 'you grew apart' so what else could he do but grow towards someone else?


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi guys. Just wanted to check back in. This 180 thing takes monumental effort. Like mental gymnastics. I haven't been perfect but I am seeing some improvements and he's treating me better. It's been a mostly good week since I last posted.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> Hi guys. Just wanted to check back in. This 180 thing takes monumental effort. Like mental gymnastics. I haven't been perfect but I am seeing some improvements and he's treating me better. It's been a mostly good week since I last posted.


Hang in there. You can do it. It takes a while.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Yes, keep going. You will gain some strength and a healthier perspective. While he is trying to be in love with you again, you will be asking better questions about what you want to do.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hey guys.. me again. I haven't been on here on so long I had to reset my password I had forgotten. 

So, I'm still married and it's still hard. Despite how hard it has been I still feel like staying together is the right thing to do. I'm almost 38 and have 4 kids. I don't know how great my prospects would be at finding someone at my age with 4 kids.. I guess that's partly why. I mean, there is definitely something to be said for the logistics of staying married. There are a lot of practical reasons why it's a better option than getting divorced, not the least of which is my 4 beautiful children having a stable home with both parents. 

We are not hostile towards eachother. It's more just that he's not affectionate towards me and tells me (not around the kids) that he's not in love with me and doesn't think we have any connection. It's hard because he seems to know he has the upper hand in our relationship and treats me accordingly. He doesn't want sex anymore and hasn't for a while. But we can joke around and be civil to eachother in front of anyone. I am trying so hard to do all the things I should be doing, ie, be respectful of him, not be whiny or needy, find ways to build him up, take care of house and kids, be happy with my hobbies/friends. Yet he is not doing much to try to improve the relationship. I feel like I'm carrying all the weight. In his mind, he has 'fallen out of love' and there is nothing he can do about it. I don't believe that's how it works. I believe you 'act as if' and eventually the feelings come back. I've tried to tell him this but he just gets frustrated with me. 

Getting rejected sexually is hard, I don't even ask anymore because I know the answer is no. It's pretty humiliating actually. Not fun living like a nun. I'm tall, fit, slim and good-looking and it seems like.. maybe he would want to do that with me. He used to. I haven't changed physically, except I'm almost 38 instead of in my 20s. 

I'm just venting I guess but if I could ask some questions I would ask:
-Do people who 'fall out of love' but stay married eventually fall back? 
-How long does that take?
-How do you cope with the feelings of not being attracted to your spouse? I mean, how do you try to make it better?

My advice to him on the last question is 'act as if' and serve, and look for the good. He has come to mostly only see bad in me, at least that's how it feels as he only seems to notice my flaws and not all the good that I do. But I've realized he doesn't like to hear advice from me. 

Anyways.. thanks guys for any thoughts or advice you have!!


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Emma957 said:


> I'm just venting I guess but if I could ask some questions I would ask:
> -Do people who 'fall out of love' but stay married eventually fall back?
> -How long does that take?
> -How do you cope with the feelings of not being attracted to your spouse? I mean, how do you try to make it better?


1 - I don't really believe so
2 - n/a
3- I actually left my husband. We were a mismatch and the spark was not there even though we had been married for a long time and had children

Honestly, I don't think it's good for your mental and physical health to be in such a relationship. It's demeaning even if he's polite about it. Is he perhaps just not attracted to women in general? 

On the other hand, I hear you about the kids. Nonetheless, I'd leave unless your H would agree to go to counseling or provide some insight on how the relationship could work, in his view, long term. A happy couple makes a happy family.

Your self esteem is already diminishing. You write that you may not be able to find another man because you're 38 with kids... This is not a good way to think. 
It seems rather sadistic of your H to belittle you as he does. If he's not happy, he needs to do something about it, not just rub it in your face.

I don't remember your back story so apologies if I'm way off base.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I hope you decide to divorce soon. I know I would.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

OP,

Are you sure your husband still isn't cheating? I say this because its very unusual for him to be still so attached to his AP if nothing is going on. People assume that cheaters remain in constant contact, this isn't always the case. A lot of times the only communication that occurs is when/where do we meet again. The only way I see your current situation working long time is if your husband is willing to commit to your relationship again.


----------



## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

The fact that he is not intimate with you at all is worrisome. If he is not still with his AP, it sounds like he is leaving himself open for another woman and another relationship and preparing you by not being intimate with you. Where will you be then?

Have you or are you getting counseling? You really should. I would think you would be better off taking control and setting your conditions and limits for this marriage, instead of letting him dictate it and have the upper hand. I believe he will walk away as soon as he gets another offer. Prepare yourself. He is not committed to your marriage - at least right now! And the signs are not good that he ever will be.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

"In his mind, he has 'fallen out of love' and there is nothing he can do about it."

that's nonsense. it's that he doesn't want to do anything about it. he has negative feelings about you.
it may or may not have anything to do you you, or it might be a mixture of things.
he may just be unhappy for whatever reason and it spills out to you.

the old cliche that "love is primarily a choice" is true. feelings come and go, and the 'madly in love' with butterflies almost never lasts
forever. Ideally, 'madly in lust' gives way to 'madly in love' which gives way to a higher, mature love that commits to loving that person forever and the more
committed to that premise, the greater the chances that 'madly in love' will last forever. 

i'm sorry your husband doesn't understand this.

my mom once told me some years ago that; "i don't always like your father, but I will ALWAYS love him." that's the kind of love i'm talking about.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

He wont bother trying to work on things because, 1...he know he doesn't matter whether or not he improves in any way because you will not leave. Why should he bother to make the effort? And 2...he has a girlfriend. If you don't think that he does, then you are a fool.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Tell him you are sick and tired of his rejection and ask him how he would feel about you going out a getting a boyfriend?


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Oh and I have to add...you trying to build him up and kiss his ass is the absolute WRONG thing to be doing. Good lord, where is your pride?? He will never, ever have any respect for you this way. Also he has ZERO remorse for his (ongoing) affair...your marriage cannot be repaired without it. I know you want your kids to have a "stable" home, but guess what...they DONT have a stable home. Stable homes don't have cheating dads and moms that allow it to go on.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Dont be so hard on yourself my Lady,you are only 38 years old. Plenty of good and happy years ahead of you. Reading your posts you sound like a nice woman and every man will be happy to meet you. You care about your Children,Marriage and your man. This is what most of us are looking for. 

Your Husband dont deserve you to be honest. You should stop trying to "win him" back. He is the only one to blame and he should do the hard working not you. 

He put you in position where you feel like you are the one who Cheated and he destroyed your confidence.
Time for you to wake up and stop beging him. 

Stay strong.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I've never personally known of a situation where love came back but I think for that to happen it would require effort on his part. And it doesn't sound like he's putting in the effort. It's not common for a healthy HD male to pass up sex with a spouse -- even one he doesn't love -- and that's a possible indicator there's someone else that he's being "faithful" to. Maybe he doesn't want to be the bad guy and initiate divorce and he keeps hoping that you'll do it for him. 

As for your children, I grew up in a home where my parents considered divorce but didn't. My son also grew up in a home where his father and I considered divorce but didn't. Children know when all is not right between their parents -- no matter how hard their parents try to keep that away from them -- and it's difficult for them not to be affected by it. Especially when they're adults with their own relationship to deal with. 

I know you want him to wake up and maybe he will. But he might not so you need a plan for your life in case he doesn't.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you should start looking into divorce. At least make the first inquiries to see what your finances and logistics would be.

He exhibits many of the signs of still being in an affair. He thinks he has the emotional upper hand and he denigrates you with this. You accept this, but you shouldn't. You really shouldn't.

Who died and left him the arbiter of your life? He has hurt you so badly and now you live in sadness and despair.

What right does he have to do this to you?

He only feels this way because he doesn't respect you. In a perfect life for him you would be gone. You are his ball and chain. Complete contempt is what he feels.

You are a mother of four beautiful children. Love yourself enough to give them a mother who values herself enough to not accept such dishonor and disrespect.

Please, Emma. At least take the first steps. Don't waste your life begging an unworthy man for some crumbs of love.

You're breaking my heart here.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

I read your thread this morning and was shocked and saddened to see yesterdays post. 

Do you not value yourself? 

I get it. My husband and i have been together since i was 16. married at 19. He IS ALL I KNOW. i i adored him. 

Your husband is CONTROLLING in the extreme to throw divorce papers around. Seriously he is angry because he no longer has the upper hand. 

I also want to bring up HE IS NOT OUT OF THE AFFAIR. His head and heart are still in it, or in a new one. Men of that age NEED sex.He is getting it form somewhere, Internet affair or SOMETHING. i just can't believe he isn't getting his rocks off somehow. And you seem to just want to bury your head in the sand. You want him to love you....but hun...from his perspective he pitties you. He does not RESPECT OR LOVE YOU. look at his actions. Words don't mean ANYTHING. his actions do. 

My husband did not put forth hardly ANY effort till i showed him that i was drawing up papers. And i was getting my affairs in order. You cowered when blew up. YOU ARE AFRAID OF HIM. and he knows it. He is pulling the strings and you are just dancing along. 

I warn you, if you find in a few months that he IS cheating and you just let yourself go with it....that is going to hurt more than his cheating. You will HATE yourself. Don't be that person. Get strong. See a lawyer and say he can go find the woman that he can love, because you CANNOT MAKE HIM LOVE YOU. simply being there is not enough. you are just a door mat to wipe his feet on. 

People don't just give you respect you must give him incentive,.... So far you just show that you are happy ENOUGH to just wait for him. Well honey, that bus is never going to show up.....I PROMIS he will never be the man you want unless you walk. He MAY figure out he loves you later....but he is broken and not worth waiting for. HE IS SCUM. 

please please...your way is not working. YOU ARE IN DENIAL....you are not happy with your decision to stay. Try something new. Get him gone. 

The only way to get the marriage you want, is to end the marriage you have.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> Well I was hoping the 180 would be enough of a wake up call for him without having to file for divorce.
> 
> That's right, I did say that about not meeting his needs. He says he doesn't feel like we connect anymore, like I don't support him enough (but he's pretty ambiguous on what I could do better), that he doesn't know if I can meet his emotional needs.
> 
> ...


Then maybe he should have married his mother, not a free thinking, independent woman?


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Lilac23 said:


> This is totally common and happens to most couples. *At first you love how he's friends with everybody and will go the extra mile for complete strangers, pretty soon it's super annoying because he'll give the shirt off his back to someone he doesn't know, while wasting family time.* Don't change your core self for him! You can do things to make life more spontaneous or spice things up, that's not a big deal, but he's probably doing it at this time to justify to himself that 'you grew apart' so what else could he do but grow towards someone else?


L,

I don't know about "complete strangers" but... this "desire" to give out to others, work like friends types, regardless how it impacts family time and family money is a major trait of my fWW.


----------



## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

You will never nice him back to the relationship. I believe that you need professional help to try and put this train back on the track, however you can't do that by yourself. I recommend that you do a few things. 

1. You need to set a date that if things don't change that you will take action. Don't let him in on this information, it is not an ultimatum, it is just for your use. 
2. Seek legal advice, you don't need to file, but you need to know your rights and what you will need to provide the attorney, if things don't improve.
3. Draft up a plan for custody, visitation and financial, so that you are ahead of the game. Again you don't have to do anything with the plan, but it is easier to do it now, then when you are in the middle of a very emotional event.
4. Recommend to your husband that you two need to seek marriage counseling to fix the problems. He won't agree to go, but at least it is on the table, then let it go for now. 
5. Set up fun events for you and the kids, this will help ease the stress they may be experiencing. 
6. You may want to consider setting up a bank account and credit cards in your name, you don't have to use them, but they will be there.
7. Look at the cell phone bill and see who he is calling, there may be a new flame that he is trying to spark. 

I don't see him changing until you make a move and he see's what he has to lose, but I could be wrong, but I don't think so. If things don't improve and you have to make a move, it is going to be very emotional. Get a voice activated recorder and keep on your person to record events. His behavior my surprise you if he gets super stressed, better safe then sorry.


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Emma,

Please read back through this thread and take the advise that was given to you. You are not going to nice him back!! Start the 180 again and stick with it. Learn to live for you and your children. Visit a divorce attorney. First consults are usually free. He has you in limbo land and will likely keep you there until he leaves. Stand up for yourself and your children. Nobody can respect someone that doesn't respect themselves. That includes your children. Get a plan in place, your ducks in a row. Move on with your life you'll be much happier for it. You can't have any self esteem left living with someone that treats you as unlovable. See a counselor to build up the strength you're going to need.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Emma, how are you?


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Either his tostosterone level has collapsed or he's got a side piece. No normal guy goes months without sex when he's got a willing, attractive partner.


----------



## bankshot1993 (Feb 10, 2014)

I'm going to join the choir here and echo so many of the comments already made.

First off, About the lack of intimacy. Guys are (for the most part) horn dogs. They are capable of separating the physical act of sex and the emotional feelings of love. If a guy has a willing partner his urges will at some point get the better of him and he will start thinking with his man bits. This means even if he doesn't care for you or about you, nature has still given him a drive that he can't ignore. If he isn't satisfying that need with you he is satisfying it with someone else but make no mistake he is getting that need satisfied. The urge to procreate is the single greatest natural urge and all species of animal (including us) have this urge. It is how nature ensures continuation of the species.

Secondly as everyone else has said, you will never nice him back. Some of the things you've said and written suggest to me that he has lost all respect for you. Not surprising really as you continually refuse to stand up for yourself. Man or woman, being a door mat is a very unattractive quality. How attracted would you be to a man that merely stands by and takes all kinds of emotional abuse, insults, disrespect, and doesn't have enough dignity to stand up for himself. It's pretty easy to lose respect for someone like that, and then let's face facts, it's even harder to love somebody that you don't even respect. If you truly do want to make this relationship work (and frankly I don't know why you would), You need to be somebody that is attractive and I don't mean physically. You have to be confident in yourself and dealings with others not a doormat waiting to be walked on.

Finally, you talk about you being unable to pull the trigger on D because your not sure if you could improve your situation at "your age" with 4 kids. Here's the thing, the only reason he hasn't left is because it's cheaper to just have a girlfriend on the side than to get a divorce. He knows that a divorce means you will be getting half of everything and he will be paying out the behind for child support and spousal support. Right now he's got it pretty good. I almost guarantee he has a girl on the side, she is why he has such distain for you. He has a live in maid and nanny that he doesn't have to pay a salary to, that's you. And best of all, nobody is making him answer for his behavior. Not a bad life, I'd like to live it if I could.

Here's what divorce looks like to him. Part time dad where he has to actually do some work looking after his kids. Working out child care logistics for school, daycare, babysitters, taking days off to care for sick children, etc. A huge portion of his paycheck going to somebody else to pay for those same kids. No money left over to wine and dine his dates/girlfriends. Doing his own laundry and housework. a serious down grade in living standard. half of his retirement savings gone. An empty lonely house when he doesn't have the kids. This most certainly wouldn't be my first choice

There's so much talk about him having all the power but nothing could be further from the truth, he has only led you to believe this. The reality is that he knows his situation gets a whole lot worse with a divorce, that's why he hasn't asked for one. If you want to get his attention leave a divorce lawyers business card out where he will see it, you will definitely get his attention than. If that doesn't start a conversation with a little more humility than come out and tell him you are thinking about it and you are investigating your option with regards to divorce. Make sure you have a back up plan when you get to this point. Don't leave the house but perhaps move to a spare room if you have one or start sleeping with one of the kids if necessary. Either way you need to make him see that you are serious and willing to pull the trigger.

As a more drastic measure if you want to keep the status quo than ask for an open marriage. If he is seeing somebody he will jump at the chance because he will see this as a way of legitimizing the affair I'm sure he is having. If he jumps at the chance than it will confirm that, if he fights you on it than maybe there is a chance. One way or another jealousy can play a great role in reawakening somebodies desire. People can become complacent but when a guy see's his place in bed beside his mate jeopardized than the protection instinct kicks in.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying open your marriage, only to ask the question to see his reaction. The next time he rejects you sexually than ask him. Just ask him If you have no interest in filling my needs than would you be open to discussing an agreement where we can have our needs met by other people. I would normally never recommend this as just asking the question could do great damage to an otherwise healthy relationship but yours is anything but a healthy marriage so there is nothing to lose. If he does agree and you decide you don't want to divorce than who knows maybe an open relationship is what will work to get you through until the kids are old enough that you will feel more comfortable with divorce. relegating your marriage to that of amicable roommates may be a solution that will work for both of you. Believe me when I say I suspect your husbands tune would change pretty quick when he saw you going out on a couple dates.

Anyway I do wish you good luck and will leave you with one last thought and that thought is at the bottom of all my posts, You are the author of your story. you write it and you decide the ending. Only you have the power to change that which you are not happy with.


----------



## Nix (Jan 23, 2012)

Sounds to me like your H is having a severe midlife crisis.

I went through this with my ex. It is a living hell. And nothing you can do will make ANY difference. You are "pretzeling", willing to do or say anything to keep him around "until this phase passes."

The problem is, this is most likely not a phase. He is not the man you married anymore. He is a monster out for himself. The man you love is dead and is never coming back. 

Everyone has their own journey through this and it sucks like no other to be the left behind spouse of someone like this. I know because I was one. I've picked up the pieces now but it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Harder than burying my dad. By the way I went through this at the age of 43 and I was remarried at 45. Not that moving so quickly is anything I would recommend. I bring it up to point out there are many middle aged singles out there. I worried about it too. I shouldn't have and neither should you. 

Maintain your dignity as much as possible, it will matter to you later.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Emma you want him to fall back in love with YOU? RIGHT? 

well he cant, he wont he just is not that in to you. You must be willing to lose the marriage to save the marriage. You need to be a different person. You need to find your biotch boots, and lace them up tight. You need to be a different woman, a woman that does not put up with this bull. He could suddenly fall on his knees for you and realize that he loves you. Best scenario, he does fall back in love with this new strong woman, and after filing and settle your divorce you can try again. But i advise you go full out. Go for broke here, file and dont be talked back into trying. Tell him he is not loveable anymore. (Biotch boots remember). 

Worst case scenario, he does not fall back in love and you have gotten out of a very unheathy relationship with a man who is lacking in the emotional department. He is heartless....course he does not love you. he does not even have a heart. GET OUT.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi guys, it's been awhile and I just got back on again. Reading through the replies is a little depressing.. seems like everyone is telling me to get out of the marriage. And that he probably won't fall back in love. What about all those marriage programs like Divorce Busters and Mort Fertel that say that it's possible? Am I just so desperate I would believe that? Does it not really happen?..  I've talked to a Divorce Busters Counselor and other counselors... I feel temporarily better but then my marriage still seems to be in the same old rut. It's so devastating to remember the love we once had and to think this is all over. It makes me physically sick at times, not eating or sleeping well. 
Can someone call me? I'd love to actually talk to someone about this on the phone.. I feel like I need to talk to someone. I can't talk to anyone close to me because I don't want anyone to know.. but I'll talk to a stranger on TAM (I don't know if that's even aloud per their rules) but I'm just feeling so defeated right now. I feel like I'm going crazy.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Emma, while anything is possible, it may not be at all likely.

_Hope_ for the possible, but PLAN for the likely.

You can use the 180 to do both.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Emma those promise such good outcomes for 2 COMMITTED PARTNERS. sure those all work...but your husband is never coming to the plate. I dont see it happening.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You're in the Coping with Infidelity forum and the experienced posters here believe strongly that your WH has a girlfriend. Ending the affair(s) is the key to any possibility of him 'falling in love' with you again, in my opinion.

You are in limbo now with a WH who has decided to stay put but go outside the marriage for sex. You put up with this and he disrespects you for your reaction. He is contemptuous of your weakness.

So many of us have said it & I am in this camp: You have to be willing to lose it to save it. You need to file to force him to attention. There are no guarantees, but whatever the reaction is, it will be an improvement on what you have now.

The next time he tells you he's not in love with you, say, 'Tell me something new. I'm not in love with you, either. What kind of woman would be in love with a man who treats her the way you treat me. I'm filing for divorce. The children and I deserve far better than what you are offering.'

I am happy to PM with you anytime if you need to talk. I'm sure that others would be available as well.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Why do you think that you want a man who is choosing another woman over you? He tells you he doesn't love you, seriously nothing more needs to be said. He sees you as pathetic and desperate, and that is exactly how you are acting. Give yourself some dignity back and divorce his worthless, cheating ass.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

And Emma...

Pleeeaaaaase don't hand your number out to just anyone here, and certainly not to any guys. EAs have sprouted from less, and you don't need that kind of distraction right now.

Or ever, really.


----------



## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> And Emma...
> 
> Pleeeaaaaase don't hand your number out to just anyone here, and certainly not to any guys. EAs have sprouted from less, and you don't need that kind of distraction right now.
> 
> Or ever, really.


Agreed!
Emma, why not start seeing a counselor? Some therapists (or those in training in supervised graduate programs) offer telephone or Skype counseling.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Emma you are 38 and guess what..........

Every day your getting older and we are a long time dead young lady.

Don't waste another minute on the man.

Get out enjoy your life and live not just exist.

The last thing we want to do is die with regrets.

55


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

After reading your update I got a little sad to be honest. 

You really need to open your heart and talk with someone. You said you dont want other people to know about your situation and this is wrong. If you really have a good and close friend then talk with her or some Family member. If you go to Church then talk with your preacher. Have some free money try and make appointment with a therapist. You have to do it for yourself and your children. 

There are nice Ladies here on TAM who could help you like Bibi,AlteDame,Sapientia,Satya,Aine,LosingHim,EI. Contact them and they are going to give you a nice advice,trust me. 

Stay strong.


----------



## Nix (Jan 23, 2012)

I have been where you are. For a long time I searched for the magic formula that would save my relationship. Took me way too long to figure out that my ex was already gone. While I was desperately seeking out various counseling and self-help options to repair the relationship she was planning her final exit. It takes two to make a marriage work but just one to end it. Both partners have to want the marriage. My ex did not want our marriage anymore and there was nothing I could do about it. 

Denial is the first stage of grieving and I was in it a while. It sounds from your story that your H no longer wants your marriage. I am so sorry to be harsh but that is how it sounds. Move at your own pace, you will survive and thrive after it is over as I have done but it will take time.

Blessings


----------



## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

There are many programs that couples can use to help fix their marriages, but all of it boils down to both parties working to fix the problems in the relationship. I can tell you that you can't do it by yourself, believe me I tried and failed, though not through lack of effort. Until he is willing to be part of the solution there is no fixing that can be done. You can take inventory of the relationship and look at those things that you could have done better and fix those things about you, because it is the right thing to do. This alone will not save your marriage.


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Divorce busters and similar programs can work miracles but it requires that both of you be willing to put in the work. It sounds like your WH is not willing. 

I would not waste another second fighting for this guy. Put all of your energy on strengthening yourself emotionally, physically, and spiritually. There is a man out there that will cherish you and feel blessed to have you but you won't meet him while waiting for your WH to change his mind.

No need to rush into another man's bed. Learn to be by yourself. I recommend you get you start working out, fix yourself up (hair, clothes, hygiene, ETC) Going through a divorce will do a number on your pysch but looking in the mirror and liking what you see, will help. At the right time God will bring you the right man. A man that will be grateful to be with you.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I appreciate it and it's nice to know I'm not alone in this, at least I have you guys. A lot of you assume he is still in his affair or another. At the risk of sounding naiive, I am fairly certain he is not. 

The OW is in my friend group (I don't hang out with her but we share mutual friends who know nothing about the situation) and ironically soon after her involvment with my husband she was diagnosed with and autoimmune disease and she is not doing well. Like hair loss, weight gain, the works. I feel bad for her, I forgive her and wish her no harm. But I'm also pretty sure the physical change in her would leave my H unnattracted even if he was still tempted. But that ship has sailed, our families (once friends) have absolutely no contact any more. And her H tracked her every move for a while after to ensure they were out of contact (he was a bit crazier than me). Point being, there is nothing there. 

As for a new flame, I doubt after the devastation the last one (only one) had on us and him he would do that again. His affair was never sexuall, I do know that. But the emotional part hurt I think as bad which he has never understood. 

He sleeps in the basement now, says it's cooler down there. Which it is, our bedroom is on the second floor and gets warm now that its summer. But we never have sex anymore and that's pretty depressing. The few times I've asked in the past few months he's turned me down and I keep telling myself I will never ask again, it's so humiliating. 

I have not let myself go, in fact because of all the stress I'm thinner than I've been our whole marriage. Plus I work out and eat healthy (when I do eat). You all are telling me it's over and to leave him. Some days I swear I will because I'm so miserable. But then I feel sick, I think of my kids and how that will disrupt their lives and how I'd do anything for them. I think of the love we used to have and want it back so bad it hurts. I think, maybe another year and things will get better. But sometimes I want to throw something at a wall and break stuff, thinking of living one more day like this. Ugh. It's midnight and instead of cuddling with a husband that loves me I'm typing all this on TAM about a husband who's lost interest. 

Why is love so freaking hard? Do all marraiges go through this level of hard? Or am I just special? I never knew before this that starving for love was like a real physical ailment that could make you suffer so deeply. It affects my whole life. I know affairs are wrong but I have some big time empathy for why people get desperate enough to have them. Longing for a shred of affection that you can't get in your marriage...it's hard I'm just saying. 

Ok, there's my rant for the night. I'm going to sleep now. By myself. Again.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

At this point, you're the one who is making yourself miserable. You know where your husband stands. Your wishing and hoping will get you nowhere. The kids suspect something is up so be honest with them. Give yourself a deadline to either get the marriage back on track or to get out. Many a spouse has changed their tune when served with divorce papers. Good luck.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Emma,
His behavior is very unusual. 

Typically this type conduct is linked to a person pouring most of their energy into something else. Gambling, drugs, alcohol, porn, affair.

Those things are sometimes solvable. Often not. 

But his choice - which is to totally freeze you out and give up - without any of those distractions - is odd.

And if I had to guess cold - porn - solely based on his moving out of the bedroom.






Emma957 said:


> Thanks for all the advice everyone. I appreciate it and it's nice to know I'm not alone in this, at least I have you guys. A lot of you assume he is still in his affair or another. At the risk of sounding naiive, I am fairly certain he is not.
> 
> The OW is in my friend group (I don't hang out with her but we share mutual friends who know nothing about the situation) and ironically soon after her involvment with my husband she was diagnosed with and autoimmune disease and she is not doing well. Like hair loss, weight gain, the works. I feel bad for her, I forgive her and wish her no harm. But I'm also pretty sure the physical change in her would leave my H unnattracted even if he was still tempted. But that ship has sailed, our families (once friends) have absolutely no contact any more. And her H tracked her every move for a while after to ensure they were out of contact (he was a bit crazier than me). Point being, there is nothing there.
> 
> ...


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Emma957 said:


> Thanks for all the advice everyone. I appreciate it and it's nice to know I'm not alone in this, at least I have you guys. A lot of you assume he is still in his affair or another. At the risk of sounding naiive, I am fairly certain he is not.
> 
> The OW is in my friend group (I don't hang out with her but we share mutual friends who know nothing about the situation) and ironically soon after her involvment with my husband she was diagnosed with and autoimmune disease and she is not doing well. Like hair loss, weight gain, the works. I feel bad for her, I forgive her and wish her no harm. But I'm also pretty sure the physical change in her would leave my H unnattracted even if he was still tempted. But that ship has sailed, our families (once friends) have absolutely no contact any more. And her H tracked her every move for a while after to ensure they were out of contact (he was a bit crazier than me). Point being, there is nothing there.
> 
> ...


Emma. I cannot really call you, I live on the other side of the world but you have to listen to the people here. 

You contining to do what you are doing are not going to make your WH wake up one day and fall back in love with you. 
The best thing to do, is stop moping, start working on yourself. Go to the gym, get yourself an IC to deal with the reasons you will allow your WH to walk all over you to begin with, join some women's groups, spend time building up your kids, let your WH see that life is good and you are moving on without him. Go see a lawyer to see what your options are. If your WH wants out then draw up a separation agreement. 

The limbo land will end if you start to work on you and take action to protect yourself and your kids.
Tell him you refuse to live in this limbo anymore, he has to be a man and move out. That is the only way you will begin to heal. This limbo is unfair to your kids also, what are your modelling to your kids about marriage, they know that things are not good between you because you are both avoiding the big elephant in the room.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

aine said:


> Emma. I cannot really call you, I live on the other side of the world but you have to listen to the people here.
> 
> You contining to do what you are doing are not going to make your WH wake up one day and fall back in love with you.
> The best thing to do, is stop moping, start working on yourself. Go to the gym, get yourself an IC to deal with the reasons you will allow your WH to walk all over you to begin with, join some women's groups, spend time building up your kids, let your WH see that life is good and you are moving on without him. Go see a lawyer to see what your options are. If your WH wants out then draw up a separation agreement.
> ...


to add, stop doing anything wifely for him. If he doesn't want to be your H or act like one I suggest you stop doing his laundry, cooking, his share of bills, whatever his needs are , stop doing them immediately. He says he doesn't love you, he cheats on you and moves into the basement, then let him feel what it is like not to have you in his life, that should start today. Why should he call all the shots? YOU are letting him, stop being a doormat.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Ok guys, thanks again for the candid advice. I did more thinking than sleeping last night. One realization I've come to is that I've had a problem with jealousy. Maybe that's partly what drove my H away in the first place but it's certainly got more out of control when my fears were confirmed (when he admitted to falling in love with someone else). 

He has accused me of being too needy and overly jealous. While obviously he has given me reason to be jealous, that was the first time in 16 years I had a reason. I've acted in jealous ways before that. I feel like this is something I need to cure now, whether or not I stay in this marriage. You guys are right, I need to stop being a doormat. I think that's a symptom of my jealousy and neediness. I'm so afraid of being without him I've acted more out of fear than love but trying to convince myself it was love. 

I'm being honest here and vulnerable with my weekness. I think, agreeing with many of you, I need to be ok with ending my marriage as scary as that it. I'm going to try to put my efforts into becoming my best self and exploring in my mind a future without him. 

Yesterday I went mountain biking for the first time. At first I hated it because it was hard and scary and I thought I would get hurt. But once we got to the top and started coming down, I had built enough confidence to trust the bike and start getting speed. I even got air on a jump and started really having fun. I did fall at one point and got a bit scraped. But then I realized that want so bad and I got back up. I think this is a good analogy. If I can get out of the rut of being so scared to lose him maybe I can start enjoying life more. And maybe I will lose him and maybe I'll find happiness anyway. 

I'm going to try to move forward with this new perspective and stop trying to win him back. You guys are right, I've become like a doormat to him and I don't want to be that anymore. I'm better than that.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Glad to hear it, Emma. It is really not worth trying to hang on to someone who has moved on.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Emma... Your latest post is very encouraging! The mountain bike experience is a GREAT analogy for life in general, and your marriage in particular. I've taken the liberty of formatting aine's excellent advice into a bullet point list. Print it out and use it as a personal checklist. Don't just look at the list... DO the list. By the time you've checked everything off, you'll be in a whole new place, figuratively (and maybe even literally) 



aine said:


> You contining to do what you are doing are not going to make your WH wake up one day and fall back in love with you.
> 
> The best thing to do is:
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

aine said:


> to add, stop doing anything wifely for him. If he doesn't want to be your H or act like one I suggest you stop doing his laundry, cooking, his share of bills, whatever his needs are , stop doing them immediately. He says he doesn't love you, he cheats on you and moves into the basement, then let him feel what it is like not to have you in his life, that should start today. Why should he call all the shots? YOU are letting him, stop being a doormat.


This. Immediately. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Nix (Jan 23, 2012)

Try to remember that you didn't do anything to drive your husband away. The problem lies inside of him. He is unhappy with his life and is blaming you. My ex did the same thing to me too. She was full of it and so is your H. You may have felt jealous and on edge because deep inside you sensed his weakness, lack of equal commitment - you may have realized something wasn't right, but weren't willing to admit it to yourself.

Stop beating yourself up. This is on him.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks for the responses guys. It's nice to get an outside perspective. It seems like a lot of people in my situation, from other threads I read, put a lot of blame on themselves and think, if I could just fix "xyz" about myself my spouse would like me again. Which sounds idiotic from an outside perspective but when you're in the situation it's so easy to do. I've definitely done that. Still trying not to. 

But I also see that there are things I need to work on, not necessarily to save my marraige or to win him back. But just because I see I have room for improvement and want to be the best person I can. Whether we stay together or not. It is tricky though to distinguish between my actual shortcomings and all the things he says are my shortcomings. 

As for me not doing 'wifey' things for him anymore..that's not really possible. I mean, we have kids and he goes to work and I run the household. I work part time and am working on becoming financialy independent from him. But I can't just quit my homemaking responsibilities, whether they benefit him and/or the kids. I continue to cook, clean, do laundry, pay bills, etc. He still earns a living for us. I think at this point the best I can do as far as trying to be independent from him while he still lives with me is trying to get my financial life in order.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The 180 is your best friend here, Emma. Please do it. It will truly help you to find your strength, emotionally and mentally.

You can do it. Remember what they say about courage and fear:

"Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless you're scared."


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why do you have to do his laundry? I do laundry when I'm working full time; it doesn't kill me.

The real issue here is that you - the BETRAYED spouse - are being a doormat. What do men want? Strong, vivacious, women who respect themselves so much that they won't PUT UP with crap like this. He wants to not have sex with his wife, and live in the basement like a renter? Well, then he can live like a renter. Tell him that. Show some self respect.

You thinking you have to be his maid and servant because he's the only one working is bullsh*t. YOU are working. YOU BOTH made the agreement for you to stay at home. Stop thinking like June Cleaver. Do it for yourself as much as your family.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

It's true, I like to vacuum in a dress and pearls. Jk, point taken but it's harder in reality than theory. 

I have to think about trying to keep his income as long as I can while I get my financial stuff together. I am working on buying a business and have some income property that I own/manage but need his signature on some things (doing a 1031 on property we jointly own) ..so I'm trying to keep the peace as long as I need to get my business taken care of. I am pretty savvy business wise and have done pretty well with real estate, so once I get a few more things in order I will be able to live just fine without his money. But for now, I gotta keep the peace. Don't want him running away just yet. And lucky for me he has always left all the finances to me. That'll be a rude awakening for him once he's on his own and has to handle all that stuff himself. He he he. Ho ho ho Ha ha ha..

In other news..my good friend is also good friends with the OW and while I no longer feel threatened by her, I really don't want our kids playing together, or to have to hear about her, see her, etc. It's increasingly tricky though to avoid as my friend knows nothing about the situation. She's always inviting us to the same stuff and mostly we can avoid it. But I feel like I either need to take a break from my friendship..which I don't really want to do, seems unfair, or tell her what happened so she doesn't bring up the OW anymore. I hate to gossip and I believe in second chances, I don't need to ruin her rep, it was a year ago now..but it's a tricky situation. Advice?


----------



## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Stop covering for her. Tell your friend.


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Hope things are going well for you Emma....

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

stephscarlett said:


> Stop covering for her. Tell your friend.


This! And if your friend is really a good friend she will drop the other one like a hot cake. After all, the OW didn't give a damn that she was blowing up someone,s family. Tell your friend, why cover for you WH either, let them reap what they sowed. You are the innocent party here. You don't have to gossip, others might but it is not your job to protect the reputations of OW or WH. This is about having a backbone and showing them you won't be treated this way.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Agreed, tell your friend!


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

So glad you have been doing things for yourself. Keep it up!! When my husband and I separated for a year it was do to him being depressed. He took himself out of mine and his childrens lives. All he did was work come home eat and sleep. I gave him a choice work on the marriage or leave. He wouldn't do either. I finally had to kick him out. 

During that year I found that when I begged him to come home he pulled away. When I ignored him he came closer. I let him come home when he proved to me that he was going to actively work on the marriage with me consistently. He continued to pay the bills while he was gone and I continued to raise the children and work part time. The majority of his pay came to me and his children weekly. It was not easy for him financially but he had choices and it was his choice to not work on the marriage causing him to have to pay for two households. Here we are two years later and our marriage is so much better. We are still doing great. 

My husband needed a kick in his behind to wake up from his depression. Maybe yours does too in order to wake up from whatever he is dealing with. His life will not be easy if he has to support two households and yours will have the majority of the money coming in.

My children were better off when he left. He spent more time with them then instead of hiding in work or the bedroom. 

You are not helping him or your children by enabling his behavior. Your husband has choices make him make a choice. You might be helping him by forcing the issue.

A little about me. I was 44 when this happened. We have been married since I was 29. We just celebrated our 18th anniversary. This was the most heart wrenching thing I've ever been through. But in the long run I learned a lot about myself. I read a lot of self help books. I didn't think I could do it. But I did and I'm so much stronger for it and so is my marriage.

You may not have the same result I did but if you let it go on like this I don't think you'll have good results. He will either wake up and work on the marriage with you or leave for good. If he leaves for good you will be all right. You'll be stronger. It takes two to marry, it takes two to work on the marriage you can't do that alone.

I really wish you the best and hope he pulls his head out of his butt. PM me any time if you want to talk.


----------



## Piper502 (Jun 2, 2016)

I've read your entire thread Emma. I'm rooting for you! Hang in there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

Just wanted to follow Piper's lead and say hang in there! I have just read this whole thread from the beginning and I really hope you can find the strength to leave him. Best of luck with getting your finances in order as well as your mind, sounds like you are on the right track


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

How are things going?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Update, please.


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

yea whats going on , tell us.....


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi guys, update here. I'm doing good. We're still living together. He still sleeps in the basement. I'm just working on myself, my business, and trying to be a good mom. I've made some self-discoveries that I think have made me a better person.. at least I have goals to be better in different ways. I'm learning to be more confident in myself and my abilities and not depend on my husband to feel good about myself. I'm doing things in business that I didn't know I was capable of before. I'm really excited about a project I have going on and it's great to have something to put my energy to. 

I'm not making any decisions right now about my marriage, just living life for a while while I get on my own two feet financially and work on bettering myself. I actually feel pretty confident that I could find love again with someone else if it came to it. That was one of the things I was really scared of before.. being alone. But even that doesn't scare me so much anymore. 

Anyhow.. I don't get on here much anymore because I'm so busy but I will try to update from time to time. I am doing good!! Even though my marriage is struggling, but I'm not letting that pull me down anymore.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Glad to hear that you are going forward. Have you got yourself counselling, I think you should, focus on you. YOu can never control another person, only yourself and your actions.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Some days I think I can go on and be strong. Other days I feel like I will crumble and I feel sick with worry. Right now is one of those bad times. I didn't sleep last night. I feel scared and alone. I know I have to be strong..It's just so hard sometimes. 

What kept you going, those of you that stuck it out? How do you not go crazy when the pain seems unbearable?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> Some days I think I can go on and be strong. Other days I feel like I will crumble and I feel sick with worry. Right now is one of those bad times. I didn't sleep last night. I feel scared and alone. I know I have to be strong..It's just so hard sometimes.
> 
> What kept you going, those of you that stuck it out? How do you not go crazy when the pain seems unbearable?


I have been known to visit the Social Section for some light relief. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Emma957 said:


> Some days I think I can go on and be strong. Other days I feel like I will crumble and I feel sick with worry. Right now is one of those bad times. I didn't sleep last night. I feel scared and alone. I know I have to be strong..It's just so hard sometimes.


You are doing great, Emma. I am especially happy to hear you are taking steps to become financially independent. That will offer you a lot of freedom.

We all go through hard times. Believing in yourself, getting support from other people, and just continuing to put one foot in front of the other will get you where you want to go. _Courage!_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It helps me to have a plan. And to work backwards from the end result of that plan, in other words, set out the steps I have to accomplish to reach the final goal. Make those steps relatively small, and easy to accomplish. Like, if I wanted to leave my husband, my steps would be something like:
determine if I can earn a living
if I can't, get into some sort of training
start a savings account and set up money to go into it
inform family and ask for their support
start moving my personal things to a family or friend's house one at a time
separate legal/financial stuff
save up enough money to live on my own
file for divorce
move out

The whole thing is too much to handle all at once. But taking the small steps is doable, and can give me comfort as I accomplish them.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Emma, you are doing great. It is normal to go forward and fall back, it is a bit of a roller coaster. The thing to remember is not to focus on him but yourself and your kids. Get some IC to help you process the emotions. You have to go through a grieving process, when you come out the other side, you will be stronger and ready to move on. It may well happen your WH wakes up and realises he has lost you, but either way it does not matter. You will be a new person ready to take care of yourself and move on.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Emma957 said:


> I just read the 180 post
> 
> This is kind of freeing actually. I've had this fear of losing him which has been driving my actions but as I'm thinking of actually being free of him, even though it's not ideal for the family, it doesn't seem so scary. I mean* the worst that could happen is I could be single for a while, or I might actually find someone that treats me right. *Not to say I will leave for sure, but I think at least facing that reality and being OK with it is helpful.


It is good to think realistically, and not be in fear. Speaking with a lawyer will also give you knowledge of your rights, and knowledge is power and takes away fear.


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Emma957 said:


> What kept you going, those of you that stuck it out? How do you not go crazy when the pain seems unbearable?


Just keep telling yourself that you are NOT going crazy and everything you are feeling is completely normal, and there is nothing wrong with you! Say it in front of a mirror repeatedly if u have to!!
Remind yourself u were betrayed w/o u r knowledge and taken advantage of, that it's NOT your fault, and that in the end your pain will end and you will be a better person.


----------



## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

One day at a time, one hour at a time and sometimes while I was at my lowest one minute at a time. Family and friends to talk too and self help books to try and cope. The best thing was doing something fun with my kids. That always improved my outlook. They needed me to be strong for them. I couldn't let them down.

How are you now? We are here for you


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hey guys, thanks for all the support! I'm doing great! As far as my marriage..we are still pretty much like roomates right now but friendly roomates. We are considerate and kind with each other. 

I think maybe it just needs to be like that for a while, no fighting, no neediness from me, no sarcastic remarks or agendas- just living together while we figure out what we want. What's really keeping me going is my awesome kids, my awesome friends, and my business is really taking off which is pretty exciting. And..not to brag, but I'm about to start out-earning my husband. That's kind of reassuring. It's nice to have no money stress in this mix. And yes, I'm keeping my success quiet ;-). Wouldn't want to influence him one way or another.

So for now, despite an 'out of love' spouse and an uncertain marriage, I am A Ok. And I like myself much better now than I did a year ago. I'm stronger than I thought I could be and that's a pretty good feeling.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Congrats on your business! That is really exciting!


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Emma, you keep your head down, work on yourself and your kids and start planning your exit. Good for you!


----------



## Cowboy2 (Nov 12, 2013)

Take the time to work on yourself.

It's the best investment you can make.


----------



## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

Emma,

File for divorce before your business does in fact outpace his income. Otherwise, you will be paying him alimony and supporting whatever side girl he has or will have. Why are you okay living with someone who does not love you? What the heck kind of life is that? Kick him to the curb, seriously. He doesn't love you, file for divorce. This selfish man has already taken your self esteem and he will now take your future earnings. If you told a man you didn't love him and he stayed living with you and didn't divorce you, would you have any respect for him at all? No, you would know that you had him completely under your thumb and you could do whatever you wanted which is exactly what is happening here. Fvck him...you're getting nothing from this marriage but a headache and constant worry. He sees what we all see which is that you do not value yourself at all.


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Hi guys. I know a lot of you think I should throw in the towel here. I'm still undecided.. so here's the thing. He's being really nice to me lately. Bought me flowers this weekend. He texted me this morning asking if I wanted to 'try making up tonight', meaning have sex. Which we haven't in like 6 months. I'm confused. I used to want that intimacy from him so bad but for so long he rejected me...now all of the sudden he wants me again. I really want to believe that he has fallen back in love with me and we can have our marriage back, fall back in love, etc. But I also have this little nagging feeling. 

So, to put a little perspective here, I recently made $250k on a business deal and will likely make about the same within this next year. That's quite a bit more than he is making. I haven't talked numbers with him and he hasn't asked, but he knows I'm doing well. Kind of hard to hide that completely. I work mostly from home, he hears me on the phone, etc. I'm traveling this month for work a couple times, that merits a little explanation, etc. So I'm wondering.. is it because I basically was doing the 180, became my own person and I'm completely independent and happy again and he likes that..? Or he's onto how much I'm making and he likes that..which is kind of a sick thing to think about. I really don't want it to be the second option. 

Ugh.. I don't know. I do wish there was a way I could at least see how things go for a while but still protect my business and income. I mean, after all, my extra push and motivation to get serious with my business was because I thought I was likely going to end up a single mom and didn't want to be broke. I think my husband is kind of floored that I could be as succesful as I've become.. I mean I don't know, we haven't talked about it really, but I would guess if he has an idea of the kind of money I'm making. I just really don't think he saw that coming. I guess I surprised myself a little too. But I'd have to say, it does feel pretty good. Like pretty awesome actually not to worry about money and to have the confidence I have now from what I've been able to do. I do have a separate bank account for my business, in case you are all wondering. But like I've said before I've always handled all the finances anyway so he never really asks much about it. 

I just am a little leary of jumping back into the relationship at this point. I don't want to lose everything I've worked so hard to build at this point.. should he decide to try to divorce me down the road and split 50/50.. But on the other hand I don't want to lose our marriage if it was just a rough patch he went through and needed some time to get back to himself. He seems sincere enough.. guess I just want to hear your opinions. At least from the info I have given here, which of course is never a full picture.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> So I'm wondering.. is it because I basically was doing the 180, became my own person and I'm completely independent and happy again and he likes that..? Or he's onto how much I'm making and he likes that..which is kind of a sick thing to think about. I really don't want it to be the second option.


I think it's both of these things. He's not seeing you as a needy person and that's attractive to him.

There's the rub, E. If you 180 and become happier with yourself, your H's crap attitude can do its own 180. By that time, though, you're pretty OK with your life - your accomplishments and yourself in general - and you don't need his validation for it, so you're not sure his coming around to 'love you again' is really a great thing, since it's so conditional and selfish on his part. And, as you say, you can't ever be sure that he's not just sniffing the money.

If you take his invitation (which, given what you've written to us, I think you will do, at least eventually), you need to work hard to keep up your hard-won independence. Don't let him break that down. Don't jump at the first chance he offers you for his 'love.' He threw your love away. I think he should earn it back.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> Hi guys. I know a lot of you think I should throw in the towel here. I'm still undecided.. so here's the thing. He's being really nice to me lately. Bought me flowers this weekend. He texted me this morning asking if I wanted to 'try making up tonight', meaning have sex. Which we haven't in like 6 months. I'm confused. I used to want that intimacy from him so bad but for so long he rejected me...now all of the sudden he wants me again. I really want to believe that he has fallen back in love with me and we can have our marriage back, fall back in love, etc. But I also have this little nagging feeling.
> 
> So, to put a little perspective here, I recently made $250k on a business deal and will likely make about the same within this next year. That's quite a bit more than he is making. I haven't talked numbers with him and he hasn't asked, but he knows I'm doing well. Kind of hard to hide that completely. I work mostly from home, he hears me on the phone, etc. I'm traveling this month for work a couple times, that merits a little explanation, etc. So I'm wondering.. is it because I basically was doing the 180, became my own person and I'm completely independent and happy again and he likes that..? Or he's onto how much I'm making and he likes that..which is kind of a sick thing to think about. I really don't want it to be the second option.
> 
> ...


If you stay with him get a watertight postnup.

Then if he agrees to that, you know he is being honest and genuine.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And put the money where he can't touch it.

If you have sex, fine - that helps toward bonding. But do NOT change anything else, ok?


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

A postnup? Is that just something I go ask a lawyer for? I haven't really heard of a postnup. I've heard of a pre-nup. Well, yeah, that's kind of along the lines I was thinking. He might be a little weirded out by that.. but I think that's a great idea. That would definitely make me feel better about things. And really, if his intentions are good then he shouldn't have any problem signing it. And if not, well, I'll have my answer I guess.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sounds to me like he likes your money. Don't fall for his nicey nice bullsh!t. He hasn't magically fallen back in love with you.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> A postnup? Is that just something I go ask a lawyer for? I haven't really heard of a postnup. I've heard of a pre-nup. Well, yeah, that's kind of along the lines I was thinking. He might be a little weirded out by that.. but I think that's a great idea. That would definitely make me feel better about things. And really, if his intentions are good then he shouldn't have any problem signing it. And if not, well, I'll have my answer I guess.


Will A Postnuptial Contract Really Protect You? - Lawyers.com


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks MattMatt. I really like the idea of a postnup. I'm going to do this asap. Because as of now our assets are about equal but as I start outearning him and out-asseting him (you know what I mean.. not really a word for it) I want the assurance that, should things go south, I get to keep everything I've worked so hard for. I won't ask for money from him, and I want him to do the same...seems fair enough to me. I think this will help me sleep much better at night. Also help me not be suspicious of his intentions. As long as he will sign it without complaint.


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Emma957 said:


> Hi guys. I know a lot of you think I should throw in the towel here. I'm still undecided.. so here's the thing. He's being really nice to me lately. Bought me flowers this weekend. He texted me this morning asking if I wanted to 'try making up tonight', meaning have sex. Which we haven't in like 6 months. I'm confused. I used to want that intimacy from him so bad but for so long he rejected me...now all of the sudden he wants me again. I really want to believe that he has fallen back in love with me and we can have our marriage back, fall back in love, etc. But I also have this little nagging feeling.
> 
> So, to put a little perspective here, I recently made $250k on a business deal and will likely make about the same within this next year. That's quite a bit more than he is making. I haven't talked numbers with him and he hasn't asked, but he knows I'm doing well. Kind of hard to hide that completely. I work mostly from home, he hears me on the phone, etc. I'm traveling this month for work a couple times, that merits a little explanation, etc. So I'm wondering.. is it because I basically was doing the 180, became my own person and I'm completely independent and happy again and he likes that..? Or he's onto how much I'm making and he likes that..which is kind of a sick thing to think about. I really don't want it to be the second option.
> 
> ...


EMMA are you incorporated does you H have check signing authority ?

I think that could help you check with your Lawyer

If you have not taken a salary and only return on investment that may also make a difference.

55


----------



## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> I have to think about trying to keep his income as long as I can while I get my financial stuff together. I am working on buying a business and have some income property that I own/manage but need his signature on some things (doing a 1031 on property we jointly own) ..so I'm trying to keep the peace as long as I need to get my business taken care of.





Emma957 said:


> I just am a little leary of jumping back into the relationship at this point. I don't want to lose everything I've worked so hard to build at this point.. should he decide to try to divorce me down the road and split 50/50..





turnera said:


> And put the money where he can't touch it.


Relationship issues aside, in most states ALL assets acquired during a marriage are considered community property (excluding inheritances in some states). Part of the divorce process requires full disclosure of assets. Hiding of assets is both illegal and immoral, no matter who does it.

I have always thought this to be the fairest way to handle it.

From what you say, his income during the marriage allowed you to save and invest, and build your business. Why shouldn't he share in your success?


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Good point Justinian. I'm not trying to be unfair, just don't want to get left with the bag if he is getting back into this for the money only. Yes his money helped me get started but I have surpased needing his money anymore and can fund my deals I'm doing without any help from him. I mean, ideally we stay together and never have to worry about splitting up the assets. That's what I've always wanted. But if he changes his mind down the road once I have a lot more assets.. I just don't want to have to hand over what I've worked so hard for if he will agree now that he keeps his business and I keep mine and nobody owes anybody, if we were to separate later. I have also supported him in growing his business for many years, which is successful, and I would not ask for a share in any of his business if our marriage disolved. I just want the same of him.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Half that business is his. 

That's just how it works.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Emma957 said:


> Good point Justinian. I'm not trying to be unfair, just don't want to get left with the bag if he is getting back into this for the money only. Yes his money helped me get started but I have surpased needing his money anymore and can fund my deals I'm doing without any help from him. *I mean, ideally we stay together and never have to worry about splitting up the assets. That's what I've always wanted. * But if he changes his mind down the road once I have a lot more assets.. I just don't want to have to hand over what I've worked so hard for if he will agree now that he keeps his business and I keep mine and nobody owes anybody, if we were to separate later. I have also supported him in growing his business for many years, which is successful, and I would not ask for a share in any of his business if our marriage disolved. I just want the same of him.


I seriously have to ask WHY. Why do you want a man who fell in love with another woman, and has told you he isn't in love with you? Do you not think you are worth more than this Emma?


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So when he made the money 50/50 was fine. But now that you're making money it needs to be protected. Hmm. There's a word for that...


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> So when he made the money 50/50 was fine. But now that you're making money it needs to be protected. Hmm. There's a word for that...


Well, BEFORE she was in what she believed to be a permanent, solid partnership. Now she is looking at the very real possibility of ending up being on her own. She already stated she wouldn't take half of HIS business, so why shouldn't she protect the one that SHE has worked to build?


----------



## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> ... I'm not trying to be unfair, just don't want to get left with the bag if he is getting back into this for the money only.


You're worrying about your recent success being the only reason for him to decide to stay and work on the marriage, while at the same time you are using it as a reason you might not want to.

Think about how your success will leave him with much more for himself in a divorce anyway, and that makes its somewhat less of an incentive to stay. 

Is it possible that you've changed in ways that are renewing his attraction to you? You say things were very good for a long time, maybe there's more still there than he realized. 

His EA was certainly a huge mistake, but you say you truly believe it was the only one ever. You don't believe he has ever gone outside the marriage for sex, he has been honest with you about his feelings, and has _*mostly*_ been kind to you.

It seems to me that there's still enough in the plus column to take a chance on seeing how his recent efforts play out.


----------



## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> Well, BEFORE she was in what she believed to be a permanent, solid partnership. Now she is looking at the very real possibility of ending up being on her own. She already stated she wouldn't take half of HIS business, so why shouldn't she protect the one that SHE has worked to build?


If both businesses are worth exactly the same (unlikely) that's how it will go. Otherwise, other assets will be divided in way that makes up the difference.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Justinian said:


> You're worrying about your recent success being the only reason for him to decide to stay and work on the marriage, while at the same time you are using it as a reason you might not want to.
> 
> Think about how your success will leave him with much more for himself in a divorce anyway, and that makes its somewhat less of an incentive to stay.
> 
> ...


This is @Emma957's first post.



> My husband got emotionally involved with a family friend 2 years ago. She and I were friends, kids played together, families hung out, etc. All the while she and my husband started this texting thing and they played on a sports team together.
> 
> Her husband found out after a few months and confronted my husband. They both said it was over, no more contact, etc. But it didn't stop for almost a year.
> 
> ...


I think even the term "_huge mistake"_ is sugarcoating what he did to a rather high level.


----------



## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> I think even the term "_huge mistake"_ is sugarcoating what he did to a rather high level.


Use whatever adjective you think fits.

I left it at "huge" because of the following statement by the OP:

*"Nothing major, but a quick text or phone call and they crossed paths a few times."*


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Justinian said:


> Use whatever adjective you think fits.
> 
> I left it at "huge" because of the following statement by the OP:
> 
> *"Nothing major, but a quick text or phone call and they crossed paths a few times."*





> To say I was devastated and heartbroken when I first found out is an understatement. I was also pregnant at the time. It was the worst time of my life.


I'd say: "f**king gigantic.

He nearly crashed two marriages when his wife was expecting his child.


----------



## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

*"Nothing major, but a quick text or phone call and they crossed paths a few times."*

*"To say I was devastated and heartbroken when I first found out is an understatement. I was also pregnant at the time. It was the worst time of my life."*



MattMatt said:


> I'd say: "f**king gigantic.
> 
> He nearly crashed two marriages when his wife was expecting his child.


Surprising (to me) to see those two statements in the same post.

The OP did say she has been an extremely jealous person throughout the marriage, though this was the only time she had a good reason. Maybe seeing her life-long fears finally being realized intensified her reaction. 

But, I'll go with "f-ing gigantic". Going outside the marriage when emotional needs are not being met is never acceptable. You deal with it or leave.

The important thing is where they go from here.


----------



## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

My husband fell back in love with me, it only took about two to three months, but he was never in love with the OW. And I was in plan A, so I was being quite proactive in pursuing him and showing him all the good things about our lives together. I also tried to give him space and made sure not to come off as needy.

Maybe your husband is finally out of the fog, I hope so. Finally, it seems he has put you through a living nightmare. Either way he has to win you back now, he has to prove his worth to you.

How important has money been to him before? This can be an indication of his motives now. My husband doesn't care much for money, so I would never suspect him for something like that, but then again I don't have any money really.

I know how painful it is to be told by the one you love, that they don't love you anymore, and you have been in that a lot longer than I have, with children to think about as well. I don't know how you've done it, those months were the hardest thing I ever went through, I couldn't eat or sleep or think or anything, my dog was thriving because all I could do was run. I turned in to some stepford wife that were cooking and cleaning all the time. It's been a year, and he is totally devoted to me, we are expecting our first child, but at times it still gets so painful, all I want to do is cry, and I wonder if I did the right things. In my mind I know I did, but in my emotions I'm sometimes unsure. 

Maybe the fact that you have distanced yourself from him emotionally will make the proses more natural, he will have to win you back, and you both know that there is no guarantee. Sometimes it makes me feel powerless that me and my husband both knows I would never leave.

A postnup sounds like a great idea, it sounds like you built your business up during an in house separation, you didn't do this in your marriage, but because he resigned from it, he deserves nothing from what you have built up now. 

It sounds to me like it might be a good idea to start dating, get to know each other again, start totally fresh. 

I wish you the best of luck


----------



## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks everyone. So.. I feel like I ought to explain a little more for those of you that think I am evil for wanting to keep my business. Without trying to get to detailed here, for sake of being identified in case someone I know gets on here... Anyway, my husband has a career and has very marketable job skills. He started his own business with it and it has become successful. I have worked without pay in his business for many years to help make it successful (I'm not complaining, I never thought about needing pay because we're married so what's the difference). Besides helping his business (which I still do to this day) I have small children and I am mostly home with them. I do work from home, for his business and mine, but also run the household, take care of the kids, etc. 

When things were the worst between us and he was talking about leaving, he would tell me 'If I leave, you take your investments, I take my business and we can leave it at that'. Meaning, he didn't want me having claim on any of his business. The business I have helped him to build all these years. He told me several times he thought I should find a way to make money so he didn't have to support me forever if he wanted to 'start over'. He's not really stingy with money like that, but he was going through a rough time and, well we both were, and he said some pretty awful and scary stuff to me. I would lay awake at night totally scared wondering how I would support myself and my kids if it came down to it. I realized after talking to a lawyer he couldn't do some of the things he was threatening. But it would still mean I would need to find gainful employment at some point and I haven't had a 'real job' in a long time so that would be dificult. Also, we happen to live in a very expensive part of the country.

After a lot of hard work and late nights, my investments are paying off. He has helped me 0 with any of my business, he's just really not interested in what I do. Unlike him, I do not have a profession I could go and get a job in. At least not one that would pay me the same I make with my business. So if he were to turn on me again down the road and file for divorce and I was forced to liquidate my investments to give him a portion.. there goes part of my income earning power. Like I said, he has never helped or supported me in my business. These past few years he hasn't been in a position to focus on much besides himself and his mid-life crisis or whatever you want to call it. 

Maybe I am being selfish but I can't really convey to you in this typed narrative the extreme pain and fear I felt in that year or two where life was so uncertain for me. I swore to myself I never wanted to be in that position again, I would never be weak financially. Because at least that is something I now have some control over in my life. Now that I'm not worried about money, I just feel all around more confident and I never want to go back to that scary feeling before of dread and uncertainty of my future at least in that regard. 

I believe there is a good chance things are just going a lot better between us in part because of my actions. I kind of feel like a new person. I think I am more pleasant to be around in general. I am much more care-free (but also pretty busy.. but more of a care-free attitude because I'm less stressed.. if that makes sense). Maybe I'm just over-thinking this and I should just enjoy the new love he seems to have for me and not be suspicious. I just feel like I'd be less suspicious if he would agree (as he told me only a year ago) that if we split, he takes his business and I take mine. But hopefully we never have to cross that road. In the end, for all that we've gone through.. I still love him. I want for our marriage to work.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Justinian said:


> If both businesses are worth exactly the same (unlikely) that's how it will go. Otherwise, other assets will be divided in way that makes up the difference.


I don't disagree that both businesses' profits will have to be split up in a divorce. I just want to make sure he doesn't squander her money on himself in the meantime. It's a lot easier to divide it up later, than to try to get him to pay back what he took.

Thus my advice to put it away somewhere for now where he can't touch it, until she figures out if he's sincere. You know, since he's a known liar.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

So Emma, you want to stay in a marriage with a lying cheater who has blatantly *told* you he doesn't think he's in love with you anymore? Then on top of that, he's shown you *exactly* how very little he cares about your welfare if you were left alone to support yourself and his kids because at one point, he claimed that if you separated, he expected to keep 100% of the business you contributed to for YEARS.

THIS is the poor excuse for a man you're trying so desperately to hold onto?



> Maybe I'm just over-thinking this and I should just enjoy the new love he seems to have for me and not be suspicious.


After reading about his *complete* lack of character, you SHOULD be suspicious. Very, very suspicious. I wouldn't trust this guy with my gold fish.


----------



## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

Emma957 said:


> ... I believe there is a good chance things are just going a lot better between us in part because of my actions. I kind of feel like a new person. I think I am more pleasant to be around in general. I am much more care-free (but also pretty busy.. but more of a care-free attitude because I'm less stressed.. if that makes sense). Maybe I'm just over-thinking this and I should just enjoy the new love he seems to have for me and not be suspicious. I just feel like I'd be less suspicious if he would agree (as he told me only a year ago) that if we split, he takes his business and I take mine. But hopefully we never have to cross that road. In the end, for all that we've gone through.. I still love him. I want for our marriage to work.


It would be naive to think that money plays no role in these kinds of decisions. A marriage in which both parties are financially successful allows them both to enjoy a much higher standard of living. Much higher than either can achieve alone.

Of course money should not be the primary reason for staying in a marriage. No amount of money can buy away the unhappiness caused by feeling unloved. 

As I said earlier, it seems to me that your newfound financial independence would make it easier for him to go ahead with a divorce, IF that's what he really wants. It would leave him in a better financial position than before.

I can see no downside to drafting some sort of post nuptial agreement. It would take pressure off of both of you. He wouldn't have to worry about proving to you that he's interested more than just the money, and you wouldn't have to worry that it's only about the money.

Of course if he refuses to work on an agreement that would be very telling.


----------



## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

Emma, less than a week ago you said you were friendly roommates and that he was not in love with you. You've been going on like this for a year. Please divorce him and protect your business and more importantly, your self esteem and happiness. If he really is the one, you can date and see if it works. You haven't been intimate with him in forever and you're not living as husband and wife anyway. Find someone worthy of what you have to offer.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Emma957 You are not being evil you are being sensibly protective of the interests of you and your children.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like you're married to a narcissist...they don't ever change, but if you don't change how you see him, he will ruin the rest of your life, with lies, deceit, and more betrayals. Never trust a narcissist who is leaving you one minute and is displaying affection the next. You will never be first in his life, but neither will any other woman. Only he comes first. 

Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central


----------



## Beatific (Oct 27, 2016)

I have been just where you are; pregnant, self loathing, humiliated and wanting to tear the ignorant, shell of a human, apart in my anger and depression. Many times and always when I was down, at a low point, would his response be to run away, find a fling. Like when our 2 yr old first born was diagnosed with leukemia, and the newborn was colic something fierce. You know the one thing I could always count that worked? I'll give you the short of it, save you time trying out everything from martyrdom to "Can't Touch This". I didn't think anyone else would want me with my "baggage" as I'd heard men call a single moms. Well let me tell you, when you hurt long enough your need for the pain to stop overrides self doubt. You have to do something, try something and it all gets better after that first step. Sorry guys but, men are an easy read. They act as if they know what they're doing, but they don't. READY? Can You Act? Save Face? Stand Tall? Smile Big with a slight smirk and wit. Playful persona..good day...huh.got things to do..people to see. YOU ARE A MYSTERY to be wondered about. What's going on, this is new. Has she Found Some one else? Who the f..k could it be. 
I sent myself flowers once when he stopped by. It friggen worked ...he took the bait so fast I was shocked. You've moved on. You're not under his thumb anymore. OH NO.his shaken but will play he isn't. Play a carefree could give a hoot what you do where you go, because you are thrilled with "the pretend men and possibilities ahead". You can stop being his doormat and play this game for your own sanity, but you are way too good for him and will out grow him anyway. Trust Me Promise wink2:


----------

