# Is it an EA if you're only dating at the time?



## BigInJapan (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi folks,

My 18 month marriage has been full of ups and crazy, crazy downs. In the short time I've been married to my wife I've been hit ... kicked ... cursed at ... threatened with suicide ... told I want to murder my wife ... had my computer, clothing, wedding pictures and more trashed ... and that's just a taste.

Yeah, it's been a crazy rollercoaster ride and I'm ready to step off for good.

Here's my question: Can an EA occur while a couple is just dating?

My wife had a serious boyfriend before we got together. Naturally, anything that happened before we got together is none of my business ... I've never pressed her about this relationship.

However, I've come to find out about this guy in a couple of ways: 1) mother-in-law has called me his name a few times; 2) recently found a bank card with his name on it at the house; 3) and, my personal favorite, having been told by my wife that I don't cherish her the way this guy did. Like I said, some crazy, crazy downs.

Anyway, I recently discovered that the entire three years my wife and I were dating she was in regular communication with this guy. Right up (at least) to the days and weeks when WE WERE PLANNING OUR WEDDING.

They were sending emails back and forth calling each other "sweetheart", "baby", and gross pet names ... he was buying her presents and giving her cash ... essentially they were carrying on as if they were in a long distance relationship.

Which they were. I don't even know if the guy knew about me.

The cherry on all of this: When we'd been dating for about 18 months my wife visited Australia. (Where she attended university and where the ex lives.) She told me the trip was to visit a girlfriend.

I asked her point blank last night if she met up with the guy on the trip. At first she denied it ... not very convincingly. Then she admitted to the visit but assured me nothing physical went down.

Fellow men in the audience, let me ask you a question: If you've been emotionally invested in a long distance relationship for that long and finally get to see this girl in the flesh, is your mind going to be flooded with chaste thoughts? C'mon!

Man, I even dropped her off at the airport. Little did I know another guy was waiting on the other side to pick her up.

Level heads help me out here: Even in the highly unlikely even that nothing physical happened, and given the fact that we were "only" dating (for 18 months) at the time, doesn't this constitute cheating?


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## tainted (Aug 16, 2013)

Yes, cheating is cheating. Would you have married her if you knew she was talking to this guy and went to visit him?

Get out before you invest more and have kids with her.


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## BigInJapan (Dec 26, 2012)

@Tainted, You nailed it. I've been thinking all day that if I'd known this had been going on for THREE YEARS I wouldn't have married her.

I don't get how a person can carry that kind of secret around for that long. Boggles my mind.

Look, three months into a relationship and you're still in contact with an ex? Okay. But 18 months in?! Am I the one who is insane here or is that just premium-grade screwed up?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Let's be real now, if I'm buying gifts, giving cash, using multiple pet names, for three years and the woman isn't family it isn't just an EA.
Dating, to me, is keeping your options open. So, in the early phases of "dating" it is a gray area for me. The minute you decided to marry or agreed to exclusivity it was utterly wrong.


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## BigInJapan (Dec 26, 2012)

@Philly, agreed. We'd been together 18 months it was, unquestionably, exclusive. 

I know without a shadow of a doubt that if the tables were turned -- if I'd lied to her about a trip abroad and was secretly meeting with an ex -- she would be devastated.

Pretty ticked off to be discovering this just now. Could have saved myself years of hurt and expense if I'd known sooner.

Still, better late than never.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

SO where are you standing now?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

He sent her cash ?

Do you send cash to your ex ?

Assume that it was physical until you have proof otherwise


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

*My 18 month marriage has been full of ups and crazy, crazy downs. In the short time I've been married to my wife I've been hit ... kicked ... cursed at ... threatened with suicide ... told I want to murder my wife ... had my computer, clothing, wedding pictures and more trashed ... and that's just a taste.

Yeah, it's been a crazy rollercoaster ride and I'm ready to step off for good.

Here's my question: Can an EA occur while a couple is just dating?*

Are you saying that your wife did all these things and is very violent? Is it your wife who said and did all these things?

If this is what you are saying and in view of the fact of her relationship with the other dude I would say D her.

There is no way that she went to Australia and did not have sex with the dude. I am 100% percent certain of that.

File for D, don't tell her and get out.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Too much garbage and you haven't been married to the vested time (5 years). IMHO, you should probably walk away. This is not a person you want to be tied with for the rest of your life. It will only get worse, if it hasn't already. This is ugly, real ugly. Good luck.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Talking about wedding plans and a future with each other isn't "only *dating*". She was carrying on an EA with this guy while she was in an exclusive SERIOUS relationship _with *YOU*_. 

There are people out there who believe that it isn't "cheating" unless you've had intercourse with someone other than your husband...and that if you're not married, it's not "cheating". 

But whether or not it's called "cheating", all anyone has to do is to ask themselves if THEY would like it if their partner behaved the way THEY behaved (or WANT to behave). If the answer is 'no', then they *SHOULD NOT DO IT* TO THEIR PARTNER. Anything less than that is just plain arrogant...

...and arrogance has no place in a mature relationship.

Vega


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

If a woman behaves towards a man in secret in a way that disrespects, compromises, or challenges her primary relationship with her male partner ya, it's an affair.

Whether you are married or not it's an affair. Whether you have sex or not, it's an affair.

Working with you on one relationship while working another relationship in secret is an affair.. they don't even need to shake hands for it to be an affair.

And I too find it hard to believe she did not have sex with the guy for that long... Unless this boyfriend was working several women at the time... which is likely...


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## BigInJapan (Dec 26, 2012)

The last 48 hours have been a rough ride to say the least. And, considering everything that's gone down in this marriage, that's really saying something.

This whole ordeal started when I confronted my W with the question "Are you still in contact with your ex?"

She went ballistic. 

Grabbed some flowers I recently gave her and tore them to pieces. Threw a couple of love letters I wrote her last week on the floor and stomped all over them. Cursed me, berated me, and did her level best to make ME feel like the bad guy. (She failed on that count.)

She spat out at me that she has "nothing to explain" and that this was "none of your business."

I didn't look through all of the emails -- why bother? -- but I know they carried on -- via email, phone, and once in person -- the entire three years we dated.

One of the last emails was from September 2011. Four months before we got married. We were actively planning our marriage at the time.

In this email she tells the guy "I miss you so much right now and would do anything to be with you" or some such nonsense.

That's none of my business?

I'm in the process of moving out now. The thing is, objectively speaking, I know this "marriage" is broken. And in a major way.

Yet, despite that, I feel all busted up inside.

I always fancied myself a rather strong, well-adjusted individual. All of my other relationships have fallen within a normal range. What the hell is wrong with me to endure nearly five years of this?

She pulled one of her suicide stunts last night and I took a pair of scissors in the finger as a result. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with me to have toughed it out this long?

And why do I feel so rotten now?


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

BigInJapan said:


> Look, three months into a relationship and you're still in contact with an ex? Okay. But 18 months in?! *Am I the one who is insane here or is that just premium-grade screwed up?*





BigInJapan said:


> Yet, despite that, I feel all busted up inside.
> 
> I always fancied myself a rather strong, well-adjusted individual. All of my other relationships have fallen within a normal range. What the hell is wrong with me to endure nearly five years of this?



Use your strength to help yourself through this. Being well-adjusted counts here.

I assume she's Japanese and you're not, correct?


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## imhisbeautifuldisaster (Nov 15, 2013)

Your wife needs some help! She had some major issues for sure. I am shocked you are allowing her to abuse you. You should have more respect for yourself and tell her where to go and how quickly to get there. Does her family know how she treats you? Next time she pulls one of her "suicidr attempts" you should call 911 and have her admitted, she had some mental issues it sounds. I hope you can get out if this without her hurting you

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Just a quick question.. how calm are YOU during these rage-frests of hers?

The best thing to do when she rages and gets violent is to stay as calm as possible.. talk slow, choose your words carefully, and don't move, wave your hands around, or shout... ask calm questions and be the calm in the storm.

Is that what you are doing, or are you feeding her rages?


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## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

Off course something is wrong with you. Otherwise why do you accept to live in such abusive relationship? Do you have low self-esteem? You are too nice and she taking advantage on you kindness to manipulate you. Something is wrong with that woman. You have to leave her. Next time call the police when she threatens you or hit you.. Don’t stay with a woman who compares you to her other lovers.


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## BigInJapan (Dec 26, 2012)

@Allen, Good question. Honestly, I learned pretty early on that this wasn't going to be a two-way street when it comes to conflict management.

I remain calm and supportive during "fights". (Calling them "fights" is a bit of a misnomer -- it's more like I become the object of her rage.)

Example: Saying things like "I can see that you're upset. That must suck. Why don't you talk me through what you're feeling?"

Offering to hold hands during arguments ... reminding her to turn towards each other and not away in tough times ... suggesting that we both take a few minutes to cool down before continuing ... you get the idea.

Not that any of it has done me a lot of good. 

So, to answer your question, yes, I stay calm during these rages.

@ Cactus Flower, you sure aren't pulling any punches, eh? Fair enough. The thing is, I don't believe I have low self-esteem. At least, I never did up to this point.

I truly thought myself a fairly self-aware and well-balanced individual. Needless to say, this relationship has shaken that self-conception.

As to why I stay: I don't know. Again, objectively, I know too much has gone down to consider this marriage healthy ... or even anything close to that.

However, I also hold (held) fast to the idea that marriage is forever ... that it isn't always a bed of roses ... and that, frankly, you have to work your butt off to have a strong, healthy one.

That said, I don't think she's holding up her end of the bargain. It seems to me like she's violated our marriage contract.

Not just the EA during the courtship phase -- although that hit me like a freight train -- but more her behavior throughout our time together.

It's been rough -- really rough. A lot of it I was willing to put up with as I believed (that is, desperately wanted to believe) that she'd take ownership of her actions. Hasn't happened now, don't know why it would start.

She has some heavy stuff to deal with (seriously abusive childhood, ridiculous family issues, rage) and I've tried to be supportive.

Feels like I overshot supportive by a good bit and set up camp in enabling territory.

I've tried to be supportive. But this has been going on too long. I really don't see how this is going to work -- or if I even want to try any more.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

BigInJapan said:


> The last 48 hours have been a rough ride to say the least. And, considering everything that's gone down in this marriage, that's really saying something.
> 
> This whole ordeal started when I confronted my W with the question "Are you still in contact with your ex?"
> 
> ...


You may be emotionally dependent on her, even though she treats you like s**t.

Time to start a new life, if she is not remorseful after being busted, there is no hope for her. You will do fine, but she will go down the slope.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you are still with her! Knowing what you know (she had sex with her ex in Australia and still wants to) and how she has treated you (abuse doesn't even begin to cover it) and the fact that you do not have kids, what is stopping you from leaving or asking her to leave ? You might say that you are still in love with her but unless there is something wrong with you, I do not buy this.

Divorce her asap! Start again with someone wonderful!


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

To answer your first question yes it is an EA if you are dating exclusively. 

She says it's none of your business? You were tricked into marrying her! That is exactly your business. She sounds like a bully. Pass her back to her ex and let him deal with her since he kept in contact with her the whole time she was with you. 

I can't see them not having sex when she went to Australia. They were ex-lovers still in lovey-dovey contact. I doubt they just held hands. 

You need to find someone to have a normal healthy relationship with. 

Don't waste any more time on her. 

Run.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

BIJ,I can't stress this enough it will only get worse. Rage is an emotion that can't be controlled, when it gets to the point of people being hurt, physically or mentally. You have to seriously ask yourself how much do I value this relationship and what do I want for the rest of my days. The answer is to be in a happy, healthy relationship with a good woman, period. What person doesn't want that. When she is threatening suicide and the like, you have to take serious steps, not turn a blind eye. Unresolved issues from childhood be it abuse or other, can be a difficulty, but that doesn't give her the right to be unfaithful to you, it's just an excuse. IMHO, go find peace, you are in a war zone. Good luck.


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## BigInJapan (Dec 26, 2012)

To everyone who has commented: Thank you for your encouragement and advice.

I'm in the process of securing a new apartment -- no easy feat here in Seoul. I'll take things from there.

Feeling pretty heavy right now, but hopeful.

Thanks again.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

BigInJapan said:


> She spat out at me that she has "nothing to explain" and that this was "none of your business."
> 
> 
> One of the last emails was from September 2011. Four months before we got married. We were actively planning our marriage at the time.
> ...


 You love her despite her actions. Oh, I would have called the cops, filed a report and got her some help in my country. I wouldn't leave my home. 

I see you are in Seoul, so you need to find out how it works in your country.




> And why do I feel so rotten now?


You still love her and you aren't only one that can't act rational in this state. There is a thread where they guy left, never came back, his wife got hooked on drugs, engaged in some disgusting and terrible sex acts and he STILL has bouts of love and saving her.

You'll eventually detach.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Greatly provided that the alleged activity is going on during the legal confines of a valid marriage contract, without benefit of a legal divorce, then contingent upon the scope and nature of that said activity, it is to be construed as either an EA or a PA ~ plain and simple!*


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

You seem to have a lot of issues going on in your thread, BigIn Japan (are you an Alphaville fan?) 

I'll speak to the EA before marriage issue which is what brought me here as well.

Yes, a partner can have an EA without marriage or co-habitation. As it's an affair,it means that things are going on without the full knowledge of the other partner at a time when the straying partner is expecting exclusive treatment from the partner who is left in the dark. 

TAM has been very good in helping me to look at and articulate this rather common problem. When a man and a woman regularly get together, we have to accept that it is a date or at least date like. 

Quite innocently, this can confuse one or both friends who engage in these activities and then it becomes easy to accuse one or the other that he / she is leading the other on. The accused party has to decide how to make it right. To do so, could compromise the exclusive relationship that he / she is already into with the other person who knows nothing about these activities in the first place. 

Or maybe the other exclusive partner knew something, but not the full extent of it in order to make an informed judgement or decision whether to stay or go. this is unfair. I am sure that many people will agree with this.

My (now) fiance decided to reconnect with a (fly by night) ex (ie he only knew her 4 months longer than he knew me). I later learned that he disclosed intimate details of our relationship; she advised him to drop me; he was more than happy to present his credit card at their outings both for her and her friends while asking me to go dutch regularly on dates ......

in other words, they were acting like bf and gf to each other while he has tried to tell me another story and while --and this seems to be validated -- she was f*cking another guy whom she later called her boyfriend. 

I think this trend is very common so it does help to have some thoughts as to what you will and will not accept in your potential partner's habits in dealing with third parties. 

So yes, your wife staying in touch with an ex without telling you would have been a big red flag. My fiance immediately cut all ties with his "ex." But the lies to cover up and justify still rankle 2 years on. For example, to justify his talking about our sex life with this woman "we were friends, right. Isn't this what friends talk about with each other?"

As far as your other issues here, I think I'll have to reread your thread.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BigInJapan said:


> Here's my question: Can an EA occur while a couple is just dating?



If you were exclusive, yes.



BigInJapan said:


> Anyway, I recently discovered that the entire three years my wife and I were dating she was in regular communication with this guy*. Right up (at least) to the days and weeks when WE WERE PLANNING OUR WEDDING.*
> 
> They were sending emails back and forth calling each other *"sweetheart", "baby", and gross pet names ... he was buying her presents and giving her cash* ... essentially they were carrying on as if they were in a long distance relationship.


You got played. That is cheating. It seems like she was in an EA your entire relationship. Sorry.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

********** said:


> I can't see them not having sex when she went to Australia.


They may or may not have had sex but they did have an inappropriate relationship, which is why she never told you about him. The hiding and secrecy and the sweet names they had for eachother, all happening behind your back = emotional affair at minimum + and inappropriate relationship.

She was cheating the entire time.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BigInJapan said:


> The last 48 hours have been a rough ride to say the least. And, considering everything that's gone down in this marriage, that's really saying something.
> 
> This whole ordeal started when I confronted my W with the question "Are you still in contact with your ex?"
> 
> ...


WHAT??? 

No, you need to put your foot down. And all the mental ward if necessary. She scissored you? That is assault. This is not normal before.

It's normal for a cheater to turn the blame to you and say it's not your business because they have been found out and are grasping at straws. This chick is bad news.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Reality check. What marriage? This isn't a marriage. It's a joke. 

The time for talking and asking questions are over. Your only move is to walk away from her and get on with your life and as far as her suicide threats go? She's too selfish to commit suicide so when she threatens you with that, look her in the eye and assure her that you'll send flowers. Just leave and find a normal woman but then any woman would be normal compared to her.


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