# Wife and Coworker



## BayArea

Hi I wanted to post my situation online and hear from others. My wife recently started a new job working in a more professional company. She has been working with this company for two months now. I will admit that our marriage has not been the best for a few years and we openly admitted this and have been trying to work on it. About a month ago I got a gut feeling that something was going on and I started asking my wife if things were ok.. she would always say they were fine and not to worry. After a week I checked her cell phone and noticed she was looking up the lyrics to a song that was a bit romantic and I asked here what made her look it up? She said she heard it on the radio, which I then proceeded to check the stations site and noticed it was never played in the play list... she still said she heard it on the radio and we moved on. The next day I logged into her work email (She gave me the password before to setup her cell phone with the email) While I was logged in I noticed one of her coworkers send her a little smilley and asked her if she was busy... When she said yes he kept sending her sad faces. This was at the end of the day and when my wife called me I asked her what was going on with this coworker... she swore nothing was going on but I kept on asking... after 24 hours she admitted that her and this coworker had been flirting back and fourth and that they had an attraciton to each other... she says that it just felt good and flatered her to have him flirt with her. After a few days of arguing and asking more questions she also admitted that the guy did send he a sexual song and also would make compliments of liking her body and at times would send her little chat roses. She says to me that she didnt beleive anything was wrong and that it didnt seem wrong since it was in chat and she didnt do it face to face with him. I asked her if she beleived that he wanted more and she said she didnt know but could assume he possibly did... she swore that should would never sleep with another man since she is married... but for me its hard to understand when she would of drawn the line?? This guy works on her team at work and was making advances at her that she didnt stop.. she says that if he would of tried to get her to go out alone of if he crossed the line of being physical she would of stopped it.. I dont beleive it and think that it would of been a matter of time until this would of been a physical affair. As of now we are in counseling and she has told the guy that everything needs to stop and they can only talk about business. Even though she did this I still cant stop thinking about the what ifs while she is at work. I have also went to the OM wife and told her everything I found out as well. 

Can anyone shed some light or advice... Some people tell me I am being childish about this and that I should just forget about it but I tell that this hurts just knowing someone was trying to get into my wife's paints and she didnt stop it... her only excuse is that she didnt think it was bad since it was a chat and that she would never of sletp with him... of course she would say that once she is caugth.


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## TDSC60

You are not being childish. Yes it is bad - very bad. They are headed for an EA at the very least. Since he has already gotten sexual with her and she did nothing to stop it - a big red flag here.

This guy is being totally inappropriate and your wife is not stopping it. She is enjoying the attention. Now you have to be very watchful as they may take it underground.

I would consider exposing the inappropriate behavior to the company HR since they are using company equipment and resources.

What has the OM's wife said?

BTW - no cheating spouse will admit that they want to sleep with the OM. Matter of fact very many admit that they did not think they could ever actually do it - until they did.

She didn't think anything was wrong with doing what she did? BS. Ask her how she would feel if she found out you were having secret sexual chat with another woman.


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## Will_Kane

BayArea said:


> Hi I wanted to post my situation online and hear from others. My wife recently started a new job working in a more professional company. She has been working with this company for two months now. I will admit that our marriage has not been the best for a few years and we openly admitted this and have been trying to work on it. About a month ago I got a gut feeling that something was going on and I started asking my wife if things were ok.. she would always say they were fine and not to worry. After a week I checked her cell phone and noticed she was looking up the lyrics to a song that was a bit romantic and I asked here what made her look it up? She said she heard it on the radio, which I then proceeded to check the stations site and noticed it was never played in the play list... she still said she heard it on the radio and we moved on. The next day I logged into her work email (She gave me the password before to setup her cell phone with the email) While I was logged in I noticed one of her coworkers send her a little smilley and asked her if she was busy... When she said yes he kept sending her sad faces. This was at the end of the day and when my wife called me I asked her what was going on with this coworker... she swore nothing was going on but I kept on asking... after 24 hours she admitted that her and *this coworker had been flirting back and fourth *and that *they had an attraciton to each other*... she says that it just felt good and flatered her to have him flirt with her. After a few days of arguing and asking more questions she also admitted that the guy did send he a sexual song and also would make compliments of liking her body and at times would send her little chat roses. *She says to me that she didnt beleive anything was wrong and that it didnt seem wrong since it was in chat and she didnt do it face to face with him*. *I asked her if she beleived that he wanted more and she said she didnt know but could assume he possibly did*... she swore that should would never sleep with another man since she is married... but for me its hard to understand when she would of drawn the line?? *This guy works on her team at work and was making advances at her that she didnt stop*.. she says that if he would of tried to get her to go out alone of if he crossed the line of being physical she would of stopped it.. I dont beleive it and think that it would of been a matter of time until this would of been a physical affair. As of now we are in counseling and she has told the guy that everything needs to stop and they can only talk about business. Even though she did this I still cant stop thinking about the what ifs while she is at work. *I have also went to the OM wife and told her everything I found out as well.*
> 
> Can anyone shed some light or advice... Some people tell me I am being childish about this and that I should just forget about it but I tell that this hurts just knowing someone was trying to get into my wife's paints and she didnt stop it... her only excuse is that she didnt think it was bad since it was a chat and that she would never of sletp with him... of course she would say that once she is caugth.


It seems she was very happy with his advances. Ever go on a date and put your arm around a girl's shoulders, or hold her hand? If she doesn't say no or physically recoil, it means yes. Same thing with this type of flirting. If you don't reject it, and respond in kind, it means, "keep it coming."

No one is as naive as your wife to say she didn't think it was wrong because it was just chat, that it was OK to encourage a guy who she had a mutual attraction with knowing he wanted more. You shouldn't accept that type of argument from her and let her know in no uncertain terms that you don't believe it.

You are right on target with the way you are thinking about this. Don't let her and others who don't know the situation as well as you do make you feel crazy for feeling the way you do. You have a right to expect your wife will reject other man's advances. 

Have you checked her earlier work emails to see how/when this started?

Continue to monitor her email and if the flirty stuff continues from him, insist that she complain to her supervisor about sexual harassment.

Put a voice-activated recorder under the seat of her car with some heavy-duty velcro and monitor for a couple of weeks to see if she sticks to her "just business" talk.

I don't think you're ready to hear this yet, and I know your wife isn't, but she absolutely is not going to be able to keep it strictly business with this guy for whom she admits an attraction and inappropriate behavior, still saying she sees nothing wrong with it. The behavior is going to continue and escalate. Maybe with the voice-activated recorder and monitoring her work email you will be able to at least save yourself a lot of time and catch it sooner rather than later.

Good job on exposing to the other man's wife. Let her know if other man and your wife continue their flirty or worse relationship.

Also keep in mind that now that wife has told other man to keep it strictly business, the flirty stuff from him should be treated by your wife as sexual harassment. She has the right to work in an environment free from the unwanted advances of other employees.


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## Drover

I'd go see him myself and tell him to knock his sh*t off or I'll bust his a*s for him.


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## Will_Kane

Drover said:


> I'd go see him myself and tell him to knock his sh*t off or I'll bust his a*s for him.


If you can, take your wife out to lunch or stop in to her office right before quitting time to take her to dinner and introduce yourself to the other man. Let him know that since your wife has asked him to stop, any of his advances and flirting will be sexual harassment. Observe her reaction as well as his.


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## sandc

I would also send a polite note to her hr department letting them know what happened and that you have handled it. They will most likely offer OM a refresher course on sexual harassment.


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## warlock07

Inform the HR department and if the guy is married or in a relationship, send her one too. This guy is a predator, going after married woman and you neeed to be very proactive before thee affair escalates(if it hasn't already). Then send him a mail that you know what he is sending you wife and would appreciate that if he cc'ed you in the mails. Work place affairs are the easiest to have.


Check her phone records and mail so that you have the whole truth about her affair. I have a feeling that it was more than what she confessed.


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## Thundarr

BayArea said:


> Can anyone shed some light or advice... Some people tell me I am being childish about this and that I should just forget about it but I tell that this hurts just knowing someone was trying to get into my wife's paints and she didnt stop it... her only excuse is that she didnt think it was bad since it was a chat and that she would never of sletp with him... of course she would say that once she is caugth.


Bay this was absolutely going toward an EA and it's hard to think your wife didn't know it. These people calling you childish are either naive or are insulting your intelligence. I hope you hold your wife accountable for her bad behavior and don't let her minimize that she was on her way to an EA and probably PA. 

She needs to start looking for another job or else he does.


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## BayArea

Thank you for the responses... she does NOW admit that she knows it was wrong and has asked for forgiveness. she says she wants to focus on our marriage and to fix us.. I do admit that we have had issues for sometime now that were not given attention. 

I am trying to control my emotions and feelings and focus on the repair of my marriage... We have a young daughter together and I dont want to break up my marriage. We have started counseling and talking about issues we both have.. 

When I told the OM wife she was terribly upset with her husband and my wife and rightfully so... I also did comfront the OM before telling his wife and told him to knock it off... of course he took the position of that he was just chatting with her and he had no intentions of doing anything more (BS TO ME)...


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## CarrWalterl

I would also send a polite note to her hr department letting them know what happened and that you have handled it


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## warlock07

> of course he took the position of that he was just chatting with her and he had no intentions of doing anything more (BS TO ME)...


Ask him if he would be ok if you spoke to his wife similarly. Now is a very crucial time. They might take the affair underground. Your wife might be a good person but cheaters can the best actors. Usually work place affairs resume very easily and can be hidden without much problem. You need to employ your own methods to verify that the affair did end.


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## jnj express

If your wife, works for a large company maybe she can transfer to another facility, or she needs to quit work-----

This guy has dug himself into her psyche, and she wanted it, so an EA, is there, even if not admitted to---so she cannot really see him at work, if you are to have a successful R.

Also, you and your wife, need to talk 30 minutes everyday, or longer, about everything, light-hearted, serious problems---just talk

Take her out on date nights---go back to your courting period and emulate that---Marin county should be nice in the fall---or see the giants play if they make the playoffs, or go over to Golden gate fields, and go to the races--go down to the wharf and walk around--take her out and do things--------COURT HER.


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## Thundarr

BayArea said:


> Thank you for the responses... she does NOW admit that she knows it was wrong and has asked for forgiveness. she says she wants to focus on our marriage and to fix us.. I do admit that we have had issues for sometime now that were not given attention.
> 
> I am trying to control my emotions and feelings and focus on the repair of my marriage... We have a young daughter together and I dont want to break up my marriage. We have started counseling and talking about issues we both have..
> 
> When I told the OM wife she was terribly upset with her husband and my wife and rightfully so... I also did comfront the OM before telling his wife and told him to knock it off... of course he took the position of that he was just chatting with her and he had no intentions of doing anything more (BS TO ME)...


It's nice to see that you've done some things right. Too often on TAM the BS just doesn't get it. You confronted her Right. You confronted OMW Right. You confronted OM Right. You are trying to focus on repair Probably right. In counceling Right. And based on these steps you've taken, your wife admits it was inappropriate Right.

Don't be fooled if she has only learned to be more careful. Check into VAR, keep tabs on phone and text, make sure she's transparent, etc. I'd get "Not Just Friend" and "His Needs/ Her Needs" and both of you read them both. If you truly stopped this where you think you did then I wouldn't focus so much on what could have happened that you undermine your relationship however you do need to watch her closely now.


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## warlock07

what phone does she use?


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## GotMeWonderingNow

This sounds a lot like my story except with the difference that the EA/chats were with someone remote. The colleague part is also common in that there is a suspected local guy that works at the same employer as my wife.

My wife also received advances/sexual comments from the on-line guy and did nothing to discourage them.

You have done a good job so far and you are definitely not acting like a child!!

It sounds like you should get hold of MMSL (Married Man Sex Life) ASAP and read it. I got this advice on my thread but avoided it initially. I implore you to spend the $10 and get the pdf and read it. It's not big and it may change your life; it has mine.


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## Shaggy

What the guy did would cost him his job if HR found out.

You should tell HR. Why? because frankly, this guy wanted to get your wife in bed. he didn't care about your marriage, he just saw fresh meat and wanted to bang it.

Contact HR, explain the sitation.


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## DH1971

BayArea said:


> Hi I wanted to post my situation online and hear from others. My wife recently started a new job working in a more professional company. She has been working with this company for two months now. I will admit that our marriage has not been the best for a few years and we openly admitted this and have been trying to work on it. About a month ago I got a gut feeling that something was going on and I started asking my wife if things were ok.. she would always say they were fine and not to worry. After a week I checked her cell phone and noticed she was looking up the lyrics to a song that was a bit romantic and I asked here what made her look it up? She said she heard it on the radio, which I then proceeded to check the stations site and noticed it was never played in the play list... she still said she heard it on the radio and we moved on. The next day I logged into her work email (She gave me the password before to setup her cell phone with the email) While I was logged in I noticed one of her coworkers send her a little smilley and asked her if she was busy... When she said yes he kept sending her sad faces. This was at the end of the day and when my wife called me I asked her what was going on with this coworker... she swore nothing was going on but I kept on asking... after 24 hours she admitted that her and this coworker had been flirting back and fourth and that they had an attraciton to each other... she says that it just felt good and flatered her to have him flirt with her. After a few days of arguing and asking more questions she also admitted that the guy did send he a sexual song and also would make compliments of liking her body and at times would send her little chat roses. She says to me that she didnt beleive anything was wrong and that it didnt seem wrong since it was in chat and she didnt do it face to face with him. I asked her if she beleived that he wanted more and she said she didnt know but could assume he possibly did... she swore that should would never sleep with another man since she is married... but for me its hard to understand when she would of drawn the line?? This guy works on her team at work and was making advances at her that she didnt stop.. she says that if he would of tried to get her to go out alone of if he crossed the line of being physical she would of stopped it.. I dont beleive it and think that it would of been a matter of time until this would of been a physical affair. As of now we are in counseling and she has told the guy that everything needs to stop and they can only talk about business. Even though she did this I still cant stop thinking about the what ifs while she is at work. I have also went to the OM wife and told her everything I found out as well.
> 
> Can anyone shed some light or advice... Some people tell me I am being childish about this and that I should just forget about it but I tell that this hurts just knowing someone was trying to get into my wife's paints and she didnt stop it... her only excuse is that she didnt think it was bad since it was a chat and that she would never of sletp with him... of course she would say that once she is caugth.


Sounds like she's downplaying the EA. I'm not so sure it hasnt turned int a PA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The bishop

I am not liking the fact that they work closely together.... I would contact HR. or their boss. Since you and the OMW can't be there you need someone to watch over them.


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## Entropy3000

If he is on her team then frankly even though you have done exactly the right things, this is going to eat at you knowing his intentions. 

They really need to be separated. This could mean she will need to change jobs unfortunately.

This is why it is best to go to HR now. She may be able to stay in her new job by doing this.


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## The Middleman

First I would like to say "good for you" that you took action before this guy was banging your wife three times a week, like so many other guys who have posted here. They didn't insist on ending contact with the OM like you did out of fear of being called controlling or abusive. 

Now I'm going to chime in with all the others and say that you MUST contact the company's human resources department and send them the proof that you have that this guy is sexually harassing married female employees. There has to be consequences for his behavior.


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## Malaise

The Middleman said:


> First I would like to say "good for you" that you took action before this guy was banging your wife three times a week, like so many other guys who have posted here. They didn't insist on ending contact with the OM like you did out of fear of being called controlling or abuseive.
> 
> Now I'm going to chime in with all the others and say that you MUST contact the company's human resources department and send them the proof that you have that this guy is sexually harassing married female employees. There has to be consequences for his behavior.


:iagree:

Middleman and others are correct on this



*I also did comfront the OM before telling his wife and told him to knock it off... of course he took the position of that he was just chatting with her and he had no intentions of doing anything more (BS TO ME)... *


This is so much crap. I'd go to HR and screw him up just for his attitude and lies alone


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## costa200

> Some people tell me I am being childish


And now you have a good way to know who around you hasn't got a clue on the subject.

Plus, are you sure this hasn't gone past the stage you think they are? Wise up, you need to investigate. Information is power.


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## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> If he is on her team then frankly even though you have doen exactly the right things, this is going to eat at you knowing his intentions.
> 
> *They really need to be separated. This could mean she will need to change jobs unfortunately.
> 
> This is why it is best to go to HR now. She may be able to stay in her new job by doing this.*


:iagree:

The OM is the aggressor. He sounds like a predator.
He is smelling pu$$y and knows that your wife is unhappy.

Report him to HR now.

Work on your marriage or things will continue to slide. Use this as a wake up call.


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## moxy

He's hitting on her. She's allowing it. This is not acceptable. She should have rejected his advances right away. People like to pretend that what is on a computer screen is somehow exempt from real life, but it isn't. The Internet is part of life and chatting with a work buddy isn't Second Life. Hold her accountable.


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## BayArea

I did have her go to HR and they basically just talked to him about it and left it alone... My wife felt bad going to HR because she knew she didnt handle it right on her end. I told her it didnt matter that I wanted it to be in the open at work with HR and her boss. 

I am pretty confident they never meetup outside of work and that nothing else happened outside from the chatting... 

I have no way of proving anything else beyond what I know already....


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## Entropy3000

BayArea said:


> I did have her go to HR and they basically just talked to him about it and left it alone... My wife felt bad going to HR because she knew she didnt handle it right on her end. I told her it didnt matter that I wanted it to be in the open at work with HR and her boss.
> 
> I am pretty confident they never meetup outside of work and that nothing else happened outside from the chatting...
> 
> I have no way of proving anything else beyond what I know already....


This is great. But be aware when I was in an EA at work, I never met her outside of work. Once that happens it escalates. If they had reached a pint of the brain chemicals kicking in then just seeing each other during the do is enough to keep things moving on.

Typically to truly stop this stuff requires full NC. But it is hard to say if this is the situation. This would probably not be a situatiomn I would want to live with personally so I would probably expect my wife to change jobs and have better boundaries the next time. But I can see where many would not want to take that step. If he was just in the same comany this may be different. But they work together. Not good. They may be on good behavior or just take it underground. Risky is the word that comes to mind. It is possible he may quit but then again she is the newbie there.

You guys should do His Needs Her Needs along with the boundary setting.


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## jnj express

If she drives to work, use a VAR, at least do so for a while, for your own peace of mind

You may have stopped this early enuff, but if it even got somewhat emotional, he is in her mind, and it may be a while before he comes out of there, so you have to stay alert----also know this----she has a propensity for screwing around, what you are going thru has proven it---so don't just think this can never happen again----you have to do the things that are necessary to make sure this will never happen again---and she has to do her part----main problem is, you can only control yourself

The 2 of you need to work on the mge, and make it a place that you both want to be, that will cut off any thoughts/designs of going outside the mge-----good luck, and stand tall


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## BayArea

I know the whole thing sucks big time... when I confronted him and asked him if he would like it if I did the same to his wife and how would he feel if I went and tried to sleep with his wife he said "no sir i wouldnt" 

This whole situation drives me nuts and I wish it never ever happened.... I wish it would go away.... at times I feel good about things and feel happy but when my mind starts to think about it and what could of happened I go nuts.... Basically when my wife says she would of never slept with him I use a nutty analogy.. I tell her basically you and him were adding all the ingreditents to make a great beef stew but at the end the intentions where to just throw it aways is complete BS to me... I told her that if I were doing what he was doing then my intentions where to get in the womans paints...


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## sandc

BayArea said:


> I did have her go to HR and they basically just talked to him about it and left it alone... My wife felt bad going to HR because she knew she didnt handle it right on her end. I told her it didnt matter that I wanted it to be in the open at work with HR and her boss.


And really talking to him is all HR can really do until something else happens or if he doesn't stop. You've talked to him, you've talked to his wife, your wife has reported him to HR... now it's really on your wife to be transparent and report every non-work-related text, email, or comment she receives from him.


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## The bishop

I'm sure this isn't easy... but I think you are handling this the right way. I know it would be easier for you for her not to see him daily but that doesn't seem to be an option you are pursuing. In that case I would stay in contact with the OMW and keep comparing notes. Good thing you confronted early, probably was heading to a full blown A.


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## walkonmars

People make mistakes - it may have been that being the newbie at work your wife was anxious to be accepted by team members. Too bad one wasn't stand-up enough to warn her of this pig. I'm fairly sure others on the team know of his true character. And unless you have reason to think otherwise you should place a bit more than half the blame on that. 

Way to be vigilant and protect you marriage. You said your marriage was having problems. Well, your actions thus far (which have been excellent) should show her that you care enough about the marriage to protect it... and really, her in the long run. It would have ended in nothing but a devastated life for her.


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## BayArea

I want to thank everyone for all the comments.... Right now the hardest thing I am dealing with is to no bring up the situation anymore and try to work on moving on.... what happens is I go a few days happy and then all of a sudden everything comes back into my mind and I get upset and we start to argue and I start asking questions and what ifs... then of course she starts to feel upset and says she understands she did wrong and she knows that she hurt me but that she now wants to only focus on reparing our marriage and feels like everytime I bring up the past it puts us back to ground zero again.... to me it seems easier said than done to stop talking about the situation... but I figure with time it will get better...


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## walkonmars

BayArea said:


> ... she understands she did wrong and she knows that she hurt me but that* she now wants to only focus on reparing our marriage* and feels like everytime I bring up the past it puts us back to ground zero again....


Emphasize to her that it's your goal too. However, part of repairing the marriage is feeling secure that your work will not be undermined by further contact/actions on her part. Tell her that it'll be a while before you feel confident enough to let this episode fade into unspoken memory. 

But that part of protecting your marriage is to ensure that all is now well. Not just her understanding that it was 'a bad thing to do'. 

I feel confident that you'll repair well but she'll have to pull the plow while you heal.


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## jfv

Part of the work that goes into 'moving on' is that she answers all of your questions about what happened. Try to do it in as much of a non confrontational way as possible so as to not be counterproductive. How about writing out all the questions you can think of and getting her to answer them when you are calm. Your wife is the one that did this to you. She does not get to decide when the past stays in the past. It is too soon for that anyway. But for your sake you have to do what you need to do to move forward. And her main job is to help you do that. Just do it calmly, before it builds up and you explode again. Nothin is gettin repaired before this happens.


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## BayArea

I totally agree and I tell her that I understand we need to move on but that I still get knots in my stomach and get feelings of wanting to know more.... the truth is I circle the same questions trying to see if her answers change since in the beggining it took me seven days to get her to tell me what she has told me and it wasnt all at once it took each day to get more and more information to the point of where I am now... so for me the feeling inside is "what else dont I know" .....


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## Thundarr

"What if" thinking is a sign that you need to know it won't happen in the future and the next time maybe with worse results. For that matter your not comfortable that she's trickled everything. Your inability to forget about it is a symptom of your damaged trust in her.

It's important that you and her both understand why she won't let herself get into that situation again and she needs to understand that it's on her to do the heavy lifting in getting you to believe her.


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## Doc Who

Bay, if I may, your reactions and actions are entirely normal. You do not trust her. Let her know this. She carried on with another man, basking in his attention, NOT STOPPING IT, and now she expects you to be all in without you knowing the whole truth. Tell her she would never accept that and you need to know she is not still lying and minimizing and your trust for her is at an all time low.

Also, and be blunt, that this is a long-term process for recovery. I am starting year 3 and there are still A related things we are dealing with even now. A lot fewer, but still some.


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## walkonmars

BayArea I think this is how you feel - if so you should retool and use some of this next time she feels put upon. 
_
"I agree that we BOTH have a lot to work on in this marriage. But before we can address that, I have to be sure that we have a solid foundation. The fact that it took several days for the truth to slowly leak out leaves me understandably wondering if the entire truth is known. I've shown I'm willing to forgive this but I have to know that I'll not have to forgive additional things that remain unsaid and unknown only to me. So you'll have to bear with me as I repeat asking the same questions or new questions until I'm satisfied. If you think I'm being unreasonable about this you'd better let me know now before I put more energy into trying to save our marriage"._


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## TRy

BayArea said:


> she now wants to only focus on reparing our marriage and feels like everytime I bring up the past it puts us back to ground zero again.


 It has only been a few days. It normally takes many months at a minimum to heal and start to trust again. She wants to rug sweep and move on. Do not let her. You have a right to heal at your own pace. If she is really remorseful she will be willing to do the heavy lifting needed to help you heal.


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## BayArea

Thanks again everyone.... I just got into another huge argument with my wife over all of this and she got upset and told me I needed to move on.... I was pissed off about a comment she said a while back that the OM said something to her that was the intial advance but of course she doent remember what was said... all she remembers is that he said to zip it and not say anything... I told her it was BS that she didnt recall it... This led me to blowing up about the whole incident again and feeling the anger all over.... I cant get over the fact that my wife knew a guy wanted to screw her and she was ok with it.... She now says she cant be sure that was his intentions but that all she felt was flirting..... AAHHHH will this BS ever end........


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## Thundarr

Bay. It sucks to here this. It means she's been trying to minimize and not take ownership. She may be playing the "stop it or else ... I'm serious" card or she may really mean it. Either way it doesn't mean you need to leave. Maybe you should tell her she needs to leave.


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## Malaise

BayArea said:


> Thanks again everyone.... I just got into another huge argument with my wife over all of this and she got upset and told me I needed to move on.... I was pissed off about a comment she said a while back that the OM said something to her that was the intial advance but of course she doent remember what was said... all she remembers is that he said to zip it and not say anything... I told her it was BS that she didnt recall it... This led me to blowing up about the whole incident again and feeling the anger all over*.... I cant get over the fact that my wife knew a guy wanted to screw her and she was ok with it.... She now says she cant be sure that was his intentions but that all she felt was flirting.*.... AAHHHH will this BS ever end........


I could buy this if she just got out of a convent.


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## Entropy3000

BayArea said:


> Thanks again everyone.... I just got into another huge argument with my wife over all of this and she got upset and told me I needed to move on.... I was pissed off about a comment she said a while back that the OM said something to her that was the intial advance but of course she doent remember what was said... all she remembers is that he said to zip it and not say anything... I told her it was BS that she didnt recall it... This led me to blowing up about the whole incident again and feeling the anger all over.... I cant get over the fact that my wife knew a guy wanted to screw her and she was ok with it.... She now says she cant be sure that was his intentions but that all she felt was flirting..... AAHHHH will this BS ever end........


I think that if she stays working with him and you stop talking about this it is pretty much rug sweeping.

Since you are seeing further damage from the fallout here, they need to go NC so you both can get past this.

She is already changing the situation to down play this instead of seeing it for what it was. Not good.


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## GotMeWonderingNow

BayArea said:


> ...feels like everytime I bring up the past it puts us back to ground zero again.... to me it seems easier said than done to stop talking about the situation... but I figure with time it will get better...


Deja vu for me.... I think my wife and I argued more than we ever had in our 15 years in the last 2 months, but it's getting better now; a lot better. Get on to MMSL if you haven't already!!! Also if you bring up the past, don't let yourself take all the blame for bringing it up. Your wife created this mess; put it on her. Tell her you need time to heal and things will get better, but for now she needs to accept that she is the root cause of your current woes.


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## jnj express

Hey Bay------your wife doesn't get to just sweep this under the rug, and move on

She is being selfish---she needs to become selfless

Do not let her slide this situation---hold her feet to the fire

Maybe you need to ask her what she would be feeling, if you were messing around with other women-------its time for her to get a little reality----take her out of her cushy life, and let her know, she needs to do all the heavy lifting, to get back into this mge----

She needs to understand, for a period of time, she replaced you with another man---and that is not in the definition of mge, and it certainly is nowhere in the sacred vows she took

If you wanna blow up at her, then so be it---if you need to ask questions, and it is the same question over for the 20th time----SHE ANSWERS IT, and she should be happy to do so, if you are in pain, she needs to help you thru that pain.

She doesn't seem to understand, or have come to grips with the fact that you are giving her the greatest gift she will ever get---A SECOND CHANCE

At this point if you say jump, she says how high, that is the way it has to be for right now---- she needs to show some solid contriteness/remorse/repentance------she must face ACCOUNTABILITY-----do not let her sweep this---if she can't support what you are going thru, then maybe you need to suggest to her, she would be better off, as a single D., woman!!!!!


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## BayArea

GotMeWonderingNow said:


> Deja vu for me.... I think my wife and I argued more than we ever had in our 15 years in the last 2 months, but it's getting better now; a lot better. Get on to MMSL if you haven't already!!! Also if you bring up the past, don't let yourself take all the blame for bringing it up. Your wife created this mess; put it on her. Tell her you need time to heal and things will get better, but for now she needs to accept that she is the root cause of your current woes.



Thanks for the message what is mmsl??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man

BayArea said:


> Thanks for the message what is mmsl??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


MMSL = Married Man Sex Life.

A book designed to help men who need to up their overall sex rank/ game 
[ command her respect ] from their wives.

If you don't deal decisively with this matter, it will happen again ,and the second time she will be more defiant. Seems she has lost some respect for you.

Try to control your temper when approaching her on the subject matter,but just be very firm.
Maybe you should both go to MC if she refuses to divulge information.


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## GotMeWonderingNow

BayArea said:


> Thanks for the message what is mmsl??


I mentioned it on page 1 of this thread... thanks Caribbean for the assist. I got it from lulu.com but I am sure there are 100 places you can get it. You really should read it... based on your thread. 

Good luck.


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## Decorum

BA, its so good you are talking about this. You seem to be making the right calls instinctively.
Be very sure that anger and arguing will completely distract from what you need to accomplish. Plus it will tank your relationship and push her away!!!! If you focus on the resources here like the 180, you can have the confidence in the process that you need without the stress.

You cannot argue anyone into a better place.
You can see the damagd it causes in the stories here over and again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

She has eroded your trust in her, flirting is dating behavor, the troubles in your marriage are motivating her to get her "lift" elswhere, this is wrong of course but very common. You guys need to establish some boundaries, example, any flirty advance will be met with an immediate rebuff and then you would tell each other, also no secret or unmentioned communication between opp. Sex about non work topics none!! If this is made clear than any infraction you find will not be a gray area. 

She does not realize the damage she is doing by minimizing this (and trickle truthing). 

CAN ANYONE RECOMEND SOMTHING THAT HE CAN PUT IN HER
HANDS THAT EXPLAINS HOW WHEN MINIMIZING IS DONE IN AN E.A. IT DAMAGES THE RELATIONSHIP SO iBADLY?????

She said they did not flirt when together, that is bull scat, he asked her if she was busy so they could spend time together. Plus she must be buying his emotional pitch because she is defending him saying it was not his intention to head toward an affair. Equally as possible or more so (you would know best) she may just be minimizing it out of fear, but she needs to see how minimizing things looks and is destructive to the marriage.

When my kids were young teens and I caught them at somthing ( not infrequently), and they began all the B.S., I would coach them by saying " this is the best way to respond to me in this situation, it will get you in the least amount of trouble and if you can convince me you are genuine you may even earn some respect from me."
I wanted to make sure they had the skills to make things right, it worked out very well. 

Again I think she is afraid to own up to it because she isnt sure where you are at, show her more dissapointment, pain, and shame than anger, keep taking responsibility for your part in the marriage problems.

She really needs to act like your wife (a married woman) and a mother and not just like your girfriend who might "step out" on you for a little fun.

I doubt she would want any less than that from you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BayArea

Decorum said:


> BA, its so good you are talking about this. You seem to be making the right calls instinctively.
> Be very sure that anger and arguing will completely distract from what you need to accomplish. Plus it will tank your relationship and push her away!!!! If you focus on the *resources here like the 180*, you can have the confidence in the process that you need without the stress.
> 
> You cannot argue anyone into a better place.
> You can see the damagd it causes in the stories here over and again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is the 180 that you are talking about above? I cant seem to find it on the site?


----------



## GotMeWonderingNow

The 180 is a strategy you might use when your wife is straying to:

a) Get your own life together, make things about you, and prepare for a possible future without your wife.

b) A psychological ploy to rekindle your wife's interest in you since she will wonder why you are no longer paying attention to her etc. It will make her confront the possible future reality now, rather than thinking she can just continue with things the way they are.

The 180 coupled with MMSL could be a good strategy for sending the message to your wife that you will not accept her recent behavior plus for (hopefully) rekindling and/or improving her desire for you.

Try looking through this site for info on the 180... I think there is a newbie's link somewhere. Just for the moment I also cannot find it.

The MMSL has worked wonders for me. I got a confirmation of this just yesterday when my wife told me that I'm way hotter than her. Just 4 months ago she was definitely way hotter than me. Just lately she cannot keep her hands off me (first time in 15 years of marriage I would say). I didn't need to resort to the 180 but I would have if I had needed to or I had any doubts about her having broken things off with her OM.


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## iheartlife

Decorum said:


> CAN ANYONE RECOMEND SOMTHING THAT HE CAN PUT IN HER
> HANDS THAT EXPLAINS HOW WHEN MINIMIZING IS DONE IN AN E.A. IT DAMAGES THE RELATIONSHIP SO iBADLY?????


The book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass is very effective in discussing precisely this issue.

I have a link in my signature to google excerpts of the book. Glass was a leading infidelity researcher here in the US, very well-respected. Her book is the definitive work on EAs but it cuts to the quick on this issue with affairs in general. It is very detailed and covers how they start, function, end, and discusses their effects on the loyal spouse at length.


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## Decorum

Hey, Sorry to take so long, I have a weird schedule.
Looks like you got some help already.

I have just spent some time gathering this up so here it is

Here are a few that you might be interested
The 180 link
The Healing Heart: The 180


The last resort link
How To Prevent a Divorce – The Last Resort Technique | Divorce Busting

and a post by a Gent on here named chappaal
By chapparal
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/55934-my-wife-has-completely-destroyed-me-10.html
Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

Please note people vary in the use and purpose of "the 180"
Some say it can push you souse away. Here isan explination that I thought was helpful.

This by a gent named Tony55

Tony55-
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/55934-my-wife-has-completely-destroyed-me-28.html 
The proper use of the term originally coined term ‘180’ is as follows:

"Several years ago, Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, introduced a concept to the world of infidelity that is designed to help you and your partner move forward in the healing of your relationship. It is my suggestion that any new betrayed partner implement these behaviors immediately. They aren't designed to make you look good or your partner bad. They are, however, a means of protection for the betrayed. They also empower the betrayed to face their new world with dignity and bravery. They appear stronger to the wayward partner and at this point in time, that is exactly what you want to portray.
This list was originally titled, "The 180" and it won't take you long to figure out why. What you are actually doing is a complete 180 degree rotation in your actions and attitude. You no longer are a weeping sack of sorrow. Suddenly, you appear strong, happy, independent, and quite capable of making it on your own."

You also might see this talked about
MAP = Male Action Plan
MMSL = Married Man's Sex Life Primer (a book available on Amazon). 
MMSL is not about sex. It is entirely about male-female emotions , motivations, relationship, and biology, The sex is just a byproduct of all the above working properly. 

I hope everything works out for you,
Take care!


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## Decorum

The book mentioned above Not Just Friends is often recomended around here, might be a good choice


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## MattMatt

walkonmars said:


> People make mistakes - it may have been that being the newbie at work your wife was anxious to be accepted by team members. Too bad one wasn't stand-up enough to warn her of this pig. I'm fairly sure others on the team know of his true character. And unless you have reason to think otherwise you should place a bit more than half the blame on that.
> 
> Way to be vigilant and protect you marriage. You said your marriage was having problems. Well, your actions thus far (which have been excellent) should show her that you care enough about the marriage to protect it... and really, her in the long run. It would have ended in nothing but a devastated life for her.


Then the employer bears responsibility for not dealing with that predatory man before.


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## BayArea

Decorum said:


> Hey, Sorry to take so long, I have a weird schedule.
> Looks like you got some help already.
> 
> I have just spent some time gathering this up so here it is
> 
> Here are a few that you might be interested
> The 180 link
> The Healing Heart: The 180
> 
> 
> The last resort link
> How To Prevent a Divorce – The Last Resort Technique | Divorce Busting
> 
> and a post by a Gent on here named chappaal
> By chapparal
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/55934-my-wife-has-completely-destroyed-me-10.html
> Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.
> 
> Please note people vary in the use and purpose of "the 180"
> Some say it can push you souse away. Here isan explination that I thought was helpful.
> 
> This by a gent named Tony55
> 
> Tony55-
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/55934-my-wife-has-completely-destroyed-me-28.html
> The proper use of the term originally coined term ‘180’ is as follows:
> 
> "Several years ago, Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, introduced a concept to the world of infidelity that is designed to help you and your partner move forward in the healing of your relationship. It is my suggestion that any new betrayed partner implement these behaviors immediately. They aren't designed to make you look good or your partner bad. They are, however, a means of protection for the betrayed. They also empower the betrayed to face their new world with dignity and bravery. They appear stronger to the wayward partner and at this point in time, that is exactly what you want to portray.
> This list was originally titled, "The 180" and it won't take you long to figure out why. What you are actually doing is a complete 180 degree rotation in your actions and attitude. You no longer are a weeping sack of sorrow. Suddenly, you appear strong, happy, independent, and quite capable of making it on your own."
> 
> You also might see this talked about
> MAP = Male Action Plan
> MMSL = Married Man's Sex Life Primer (a book available on Amazon).
> MMSL is not about sex. It is entirely about male-female emotions , motivations, relationship, and biology, The sex is just a byproduct of all the above working properly.
> 
> I hope everything works out for you,
> Take care!




Thank you for putting all this information together for me... it was very helpful...


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## Decorum

Youre welcome, glad it was. Let us know how you are doing from time to time.
Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shenox

man, you are not childish.
this can lead to a serious problem unless you take a suitable step for it. You know some women are easy to be fooled by men.


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## BayArea

So my wife and I have been talking about what happened at work and she swears it was just flirting and that she didnt want anything more. The conversation now is about her job... this chatting/flirting was in a very early and infant stage when I found out about it... she now says that everything has been stopped and that they only talk about business matters moving forward... I kinda feel worried that she still works with him and I want her to get a new job but she really likes her job and says that it shouldnt be an issue since it was stopped and she wants to keep her job, but she said she will quit if it would make me feel better.... 

should i try to look past the situation and see about letting her work with the company still?? This guy is on her team and they do communicate through email and chat during the course of work.... I have been monitoring everything and all the talk is business... any thoughts on this is appreciated??


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## CH

If you're not comfortable then she should find work somewhere else or ask to move to another team so she has zero contact with him.

If she says it's fine don't worry, you've been down that road before already and you saw how that went.

If it takes her to move jobs to help you heal then maybe she's going to have to look deep down if she wants you or the job.


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## Matt1720

tell her you want her to interview for a higher paying position, so you can take it easy.


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## Thundarr

BayArea said:


> So my wife and I have been talking about what happened at work and she swears it was just flirting and that she didnt want anything more. The conversation now is about her job... this chatting/flirting was in a very early and infant stage when I found out about it... she now says that everything has been stopped and that they only talk about business matters moving forward... I kinda feel worried that she still works with him and I want her to get a new job but she really likes her job and says that it shouldnt be an issue since it was stopped and she wants to keep her job, but she said she will quit if it would make me feel better....
> 
> should i try to look past the situation and see about letting her work with the company still?? This guy is on her team and they do communicate through email and chat during the course of work.... I have been monitoring everything and all the talk is business... any thoughts on this is appreciated??


Hey Bay, pretty much everything you will read will say NC is required for real R.
Years back when my ex and I divorced, she was in EA with her boss. I found out with a VAR and everything blew up. She also said she would find another job but when I pressed the issue she kept coming up with excuses. Fast forward and I filed and divorced her, she and the OM moved right along, his marriage crumbled and eventually they married each other. Still married actually.

This is not a sad story by the way. I dated for a little while and then lucked out finding a good woman but my ex turned out to be serial cheater and has messed around on OM (her hubby) more than once. Point is, unless there's tons of remorse oozing out of her then you'll likely at best be in false R. Her quitting her job FOR REAL and not just saying she will is a small token of sincerity. If she doesn't do that then you have no proof at all that she's going to act differently in the future.

By the way if you do end up D then learn from this. I didn't make the same mistake the second time around because my eyes were more open.


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## skip76

BayArea said:


> So my wife and I have been talking about what happened at work and she swears it was just flirting and that she didnt want anything more. The conversation now is about her job... this chatting/flirting was in a very early and infant stage when I found out about it... she now says that everything has been stopped and that they only talk about business matters moving forward... I kinda feel worried that she still works with him and I want her to get a new job but she really likes her job and says that it shouldnt be an issue since it was stopped and she wants to keep her job, but she said she will quit if it would make me feel better....
> 
> should i try to look past the situation and see about letting her work with the company still?? This guy is on her team and they do communicate through email and chat during the course of work.... I have been monitoring everything and all the talk is business... any thoughts on this is appreciated??


If she offered it, take her up on it and have her get another job. She says it shouldn't be an issue, well she made it an issue. i am betting she just through that out because she thinks you will say, no keep the job. call her on it and see if she is still playing games. i am guessing she is and hasn't realized you are different now, at least you should be.


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## BayArea

She didnt offer so much that when I asked she said if it made me feel better she would but that she really doesnt want to since she really likes her job a lot.... I admit this is the first job (She just started it three months ago) that she has had that is very good... my thinking is could this really be a smaller issue than I am making it?? Can a women really be in control and know what they are doing and prevent things from happening?? 

I am trying to not be selfish and also trying to be understanding at the sametime... Part of me wants to let her keep her job because it would really help our family out a lot in sense of finances... but part of me cant stand that he and her are in the same bulding during the day... I can say that I have a friend that works for the company and I told him what was going on and to keep an eye on things for me... I also made her say something to her boss and HR since the guy started the advancements just so that everything is on notice...


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## CH

Let's put it this way. Ask her if you had an emotional connection with a very attractive lady at work. She found out, you [email protected] your way about it and then cut it off.

Would she be ok with you working with her 8 hours a day or more and still having direct contact?

Once her hand goes into the cookie, you don't put the cookie jar in front of her face hoping she won't stick her hand in there again.

Trust me, you need a clean break, NC at all or else you'll be back with much worse news later on.


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## walkonmars

If it were me I'd insist she get a different job. 
If the corp is large enough they'll eventually have to meet an out of town client for dinner, go to a conference, etc. It'll be so awkward that at first they'll stay far from each other. But in TIME they'll begin to kid each other in a 'harmless' way. 
I've seen MANY (about 6 in 10 years) marriages break up over affairs that started out 'innocently' at conferences. Almost all of these folks both M&F were otherwise 'decent' type folks - at least outwardly from my casual observer POV.


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## BayArea

I have asked her that same question and her response is she wouldnt know since she is not in my position... she says that since she knew it was a joking around type of flriting and she knows nothing would happen and if she could see that we are working on things she would likely let me keep working at the same job.. I told her to remove herself from her thoughts and just focus on mine....


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## BayArea

walkonmars said:


> If it were me I'd insist she get a different job.
> If the corp is large enough they'll eventually have to meet an out of town client for dinner, go to a conference, etc. It'll be so awkward that at first they'll stay far from each other. But in TIME they'll begin to kid each other in a 'harmless' way.
> I've seen MANY (about 6 in 10 years) marriages break up over affairs that started out 'innocently' at conferences. Almost all of these folks both M&F were otherwise 'decent' type folks - at least outwardly from my casual observer POV.


To you response... today her team had a morning breakfeast that they cooked for the entire company... it killed me since I knew he and her would be working the event... when I met her for lunch she said that she was with her boss the whole time and that the OM was working in the dininig area and that they didnt have any contact... she also tells me that she never had feelings for the guy but that they just connected on a social level and that she had no desire to do anything sexual with him... my answer to her is that I would never make advances or allow advances from someone I wasnt attracted to in some way shape or form... she says well not everyons is the same


----------



## walkonmars

BayArea said:


> I have asked her that same question and her response is she wouldnt know since she is not in my position... she says that since she knew* it was a joking around type of flriting and she knows nothing would happen* and if she could see that we are working on things she would likely let me keep working at the same job.. I told her to remove herself from her thoughts and just focus on mine....



Yup - that's what I meant - none of the ones I know about started out as hot & heavy. Usually joking around for a bit then .... 
The only safe ones I've seen are 'real joking around' ie. light-hearted banter about boss/client/ tv shows etc. NOT about personal sexual stuff. That's playing with fire near the gas pump.

edit to say: 
I'm at out of town conferences/client meetings about 40 - 50 days a year. Meeting w co-workers after work is rare and never past 7 pm - usually stay at different hotel. Get lots of reading/forum lurking done


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## Matt1720

Although my previous post had a humorous tone, I was serious. 

She needs to quit her job if you are to make the decision to move past this. All the money in the world isn't worth what it will do to your family if she learns there is no consequences for her actions.


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## BayArea

walkonmars said:


> Yup - that's what I meant - none of the ones I know about started out as hot & heavy. Usually joking around for a bit then ....
> The only safe ones I've seen are 'real joking around' ie. light-hearted banter about boss/client/ tv shows etc. NOT about personal sexual stuff. That's playing with fire near the gas pump.


The actual banter about sexual wasnt on her part... she just allowed it from him... and what he was doing was telling her how nice she looked and on one ocassion they were chatting about her going to the gym and that she wants to work out more and he responded that he "likes the entire package" meaning her body... I did confirm she never said anything sexual or racey to him she was just ok with his light advancements... She said it was friendly flirting and chit chat... I just wanted to clarify that it wasnt vulgar talk... but I can tell that the OM intentions were not good at all... he would send her a little rose on the IMs and also work hard to get her attention to chat with him during work hours... 

My fear that I look at is the what if.... of course it stopped now because I stopped it not her.... she says that if he ever tried for more she wouldnt allow it... on one occassion he was chatting with her at work asking if she goes out and if she drinks... she responded that she is not a heavy drinker and that she doesnt do clubs or bars... he then asked her what does she do for fun and she did respond saying she normally does family things like take our daughter to bowling or chuckie chesse.. so on this end I can say that when he did try to exculate she tried to keep it on a level field... the question is could she of kept it that was forever... and can this now be a closed door that will NEVER open again???? I dont knwo


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## walkonmars

BayArea said:


> The actual banter about sexual wasnt on her part... she just allowed it from him... and what he was doing was telling her how nice she looked and on one ocassion they were chatting about her going to the gym and that she wants to work out more and he responded that he "likes the entire package" meaning her body... I did confirm she never said anything sexual or racey to him she was just ok with his light advancements... She said it was friendly flirting and chit chat... I just wanted to clarify that it wasnt vulgar talk... but I can tell that the OM intentions were not good at all... he would send her a little rose on the IMs and also work hard to get her attention to chat with him during work hours...
> 
> My fear that I look at is the what if.... of course it stopped now because I stopped it not her.... she says that if he ever tried for more she wouldnt allow it... on one occassion he was chatting with her at work asking if she goes out and if she drinks... she responded that she is not a heavy drinker and that she doesnt do clubs or bars... he then asked her what does she do for fun and she did respond saying she normally does family things like take our daughter to bowling or chuckie chesse.. so on this end I can say that when he did try to exculate she tried to keep it on a level field... the question is could she of kept it that was forever... and can this now be a closed door that will NEVER open again???? I dont knwo


Maybe I'm just gullible but I tend to believe your wife about who initiated the convo and like I said before she probably felt that as the newbie she needed to 'team-up' and didn't see the potential harm. 

But what I am saying is that the 'mentor' (as if!) knows how to play the newbies. Seen it plenty and can name several people in my company right off the bat (now I'm being jaded). 

If it were me - she'd need to find another job and LEARN from this experience. She should fall to her knees that you were vigilant enough to act at the first signs of trouble. 

Nice due diligence.


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## walkonmars

BayArea said:


> ... *she says well not everyons is the same.*..


Whoa! I overlooked this the first time. 
NOT GOOD ... unless she said it in a verrrrry light hearted joking manner because if that's what she thinks, then you'd better find out what else she 'doesn't think' in the same manner as you. She needs to understand that for a marriage to be successful both partners need to agree the limits and bounds of acceptable behavior. 

A long talk is in order.


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## BayArea

I hate being in this situation... My days go by being consumed at checking on what she is doing... DRIVES ME FREAKIN NUTS.... Everytime I talk to her about it she says that it wasnt what I keep thinking it was that I am blowing it up... the truth in my mind is that I dont beleive for a second that someone can allow this type of flirting if you are not attracted to a person.... NEVER..... I asked her if she would allow other people we know ( I named people I know she wouldnt be attracted to) and she said no... Then I said well what made this [email protected] special?? Her only response was that she was flattered by the comments and never thought any of it was wrong but now realizes and see how much hurt she brought into our marriage and never wants to cause this pain again...


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## walkonmars

BayArea said:


> I dont beleive for a second that someone can allow this type of flirting if you are not attracted to a person.... NEVER.....
> 
> *Hear ya but I'm not sure I agree - there's no doubt the pig was trolling - "..you like to drink? ... I like the package!..." I can almost see his greasy sneer. BUT I tend to think your wife was not on the same wavelength - again maybe I'm being gullible - But I have seen innocent kids join a team and be thrilled that they're so readily accepted. (not condoning but not condemning either *
> 
> 
> I asked her if she would allow other people we know ( I named people I know she wouldnt be attracted to) and she said no... Then I said well what made this [email protected] special?? Her only response was that she was flattered by the comments and never thought any of it was wrong
> 
> *This is the part that concerns me - her lack of 'street smarts'. I'll ask you a question since you know her well: what's your impression of her character?*
> 
> 
> but now realizes and see how much hurt she brought into our marriage and never wants to cause this pain again...
> 
> 
> *Do YOU think she's sincere with this statement? or is she 'just sayin' what's expected?*


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## BayArea

I feel she is sincere and I do agree with the streets smarts part... she just changed jobs her last one she was at for 11 years and before that we worked together... I know she is a good women and wouldnt be the type to just sleep with anyone... what I really kinda of beleive is that she was very naieve and allowed this man into a comfort zone... what scares me is that she was like a deer in headlights which means she could of easily been manipulated to do whatever... 

I do beleive she is being sincere when she says she didnt see no harm... but she has seen the pain I am in now and is remorseful... she is willing to quit if I tell her to do so today but she does say that she doesnt really want to since she likes this new job and is scared that it could take her a long time to find a new one.. I am trying to be respectful of her and make sure I am making the right choice for our marriage... do know that the OM wife does know as well as I made it a point to contact her and let her know what a predator he is....


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## WhereAmI

BayArea said:


> I did have her go to HR and they basically just talked to him about it and left it alone... My wife felt bad going to HR because she knew she didnt handle it right on her end. I told her it didnt matter that I wanted it to be in the open at work with HR and her boss.
> 
> I am pretty confident they never meetup outside of work and that nothing else happened outside from the chatting...
> 
> I have no way of proving anything else beyond what I know already....


Have you confirmed that she went to HR? If not, shoot them an email about the situation as a concerned husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BayArea

WhereAmI said:


> Have you confirmed that she went to HR? If not, shoot them an email about the situation as a concerned husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know she did she called her boss in front of me and also HR and then set the appt for the following day and I was able to see the emails that HR was looking into it...


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## walkonmars

Its easier to get a job when you already have one. If you decide she can stay she should actively keep her eyes open for another. She should be trolling the opportunities boards of companies that are in the same/similar line of work. 

She should not look at this as a condemnation but as an opportunity to make things right and to start with a clean slate.


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## Entropy3000

BayArea said:


> She didnt offer so much that when I asked she said if it made me feel better she would but that she really doesnt want to since she really likes her job a lot.... I admit this is the first job (She just started it three months ago) that she has had that is very good... my thinking is could this really be a smaller issue than I am making it?? *Can a women really be in control and know what they are doing and prevent things from happening??
> *
> I am trying to not be selfish and also trying to be understanding at the sametime... Part of me wants to let her keep her job because it would really help our family out a lot in sense of finances... but part of me cant stand that he and her are in the same bulding during the day... I can say that I have a friend that works for the company and I told him what was going on and to keep an eye on things for me... I also made her say something to her boss and HR since the guy started the advancements just so that everything is on notice...


No. It is has nothing to do with her being a woman either. If she puts her job first then she is being selfish.

So how important is this whole marriage thing to you? Serious question. If the marriage matters then this is not a small thing.


----------



## Entropy3000

BayArea said:


> I have asked her that same question and her response is she wouldnt know since she is not in my position... she says that since she knew it was a joking around type of flriting and she knows nothing would happen and if she could see that we are working on things she would likely let me keep working at the same job.. I told her to remove herself from her thoughts and just focus on mine....


I suggest you play the role of the loving husband and protect your family. She is begging you to stand up and do this.

Both of you are very naive about EAs. The thing is the deeper you get the more rationaization occurs.

BUT, if you wish to avoid the conflict and just want to trust it. Good luck.


----------



## Entropy3000

BayArea said:


> To you response... today her team had a morning breakfeast that they cooked for the entire company... it killed me since I knew he and her would be working the event... when I met her for lunch she said that she was with her boss the whole time and that the OM was working in the dininig area and that they didnt have any contact... she also tells me that she never had feelings for the guy but that they just connected on a social level and that she had no desire to do anything sexual with him... my answer to her is that I would never make advances or allow advances from someone I wasnt attracted to in some way shape or form... she says well not everyons is the same


Why would you even want to think about this every day? See whether or not there is an affair her relationship with the OM is going to destroy your marriage one way or another. Fix this while the problem is small and fixable. She has not been at this job long. It is not like she worked her way up the chain for 15 years and has a huge investment.


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## Entropy3000

walkonmars said:


> Whoa! I overlooked this the first time.
> NOT GOOD ... unless she said it in a verrrrry light hearted joking manner because if that's what she thinks, then you'd better find out what else she 'doesn't think' in the same manner as you. She needs to understand that for a marriage to be successful both partners need to agree the limits and bounds of acceptable behavior.
> 
> A long talk is in order.


Yes. After she changes jobs and goes through any withdrawal. I suggest they do His Needs Her Needs and gets some boundaries defined and agreed to for what is ok and what is not ok in relationships with the opposite sex.


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## Entropy3000

BayArea said:


> I hate being in this situation... My days go by being consumed at checking on what she is doing... DRIVES ME FREAKIN NUTS.... Everytime I talk to her about it she says that it wasnt what I keep thinking it was that I am blowing it up... the truth in my mind is that I dont beleive for a second that someone can allow this type of flirting if you are not attracted to a person.... NEVER..... I asked her if she would allow other people we know ( I named people I know she wouldnt be attracted to) and she said no... Then I said well what made this [email protected] special?? Her only response was that she was flattered by the comments and never thought any of it was wrong but now realizes and see how much hurt she brought into our marriage and never wants to cause this pain again...


Let me suggest that she go NC and you work on figuring it all out after that.


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## Entropy3000

BayArea said:


> I feel she is sincere and I do agree with the streets smarts part... she just changed jobs her last one she was at for 11 years and before that we worked together... I know she is a good women and wouldnt be the type to just sleep with anyone... what I really kinda of beleive is that she was very naieve and allowed this man into a comfort zone... what scares me is that she was like a deer in headlights which means she could of easily been manipulated to do whatever...
> 
> I do beleive she is being sincere when she says she didnt see no harm... but she has seen the pain I am in now and is remorseful... she is willing to quit if I tell her to do so today but she does say that she doesnt really want to since she likes this new job and is scared that it could take her a long time to find a new one.. I am trying to be respectful of her and make sure I am making the right choice for our marriage... do know that the OM wife does know as well as I made it a point to contact her and let her know what a predator he is....


I did not see the harm either. I was wrong. I quit my job, went through withdrawal and realized what I was into was wrong.

It is called an EA. People in an EA think they are ok. They do not see anything wrong. This is key. Stop trying to logic and or nice her out of this. Show her that you love her and protect your marriage.


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## OldWolf57

BA, I'm going out on a limb here. Yes, she did accept his attention, and yes you had to force her to go to HR, but I think she is so filled with guilt and shame for the hurt and anger she has bought into your lives, that this will never happen again. There or anywhere else.

The way you are going after her, has been a constant reminder. Couple that with omW, HR, and her boss knowing. I think you can relaxe and let her keep the job.

Showing the omW the emails and txts along with HR, showed he is a slimeball, so his wife and the boss are watching him.

As for your wife, you KNOW her, but you never thought she would accept this kind of attention, thats why this is eating you up.
Just try to find some methods to shift your thinking to reduce the anger, for it seem like you are going to ruin your health going on the way you are.

Look at it this way, if she change jobs, there won't be HR or her boss to keep an eye on the guys she will be working with.


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## BayArea

OldWolf57 said:


> BA, I'm going out on a limb here. Yes, she did accept his attention, and yes you had to force her to go to HR, but I think she is so filled with guilt and shame for the hurt and anger she has bought into your lives, that this will never happen again. There or anywhere else.
> 
> The way you are going after her, has been a constant reminder. Couple that with omW, HR, and her boss knowing. I think you can relaxe and let her keep the job.
> 
> Showing the omW the emails and txts along with HR, showed he is a slimeball, so his wife and the boss are watching him.
> 
> As for your wife, you KNOW her, but you never thought she would accept this kind of attention, thats why this is eating you up.
> Just try to find some methods to shift your thinking to reduce the anger, for it seem like you are going to ruin your health going on the way you are.
> 
> Look at it this way, if she change jobs, there won't be HR or her boss to keep an eye on the guys she will be working with.


Old Wolf... I appreciate your response and really would like to let things go and beleive that what you said is true.. honestly you sound the same way she does when she talks to me about it...


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## sandc

BayArea said:


> my answer to her is that I would never make advances or allow advances from someone I wasnt attracted to in some way shape or form... she says well not everyons is the same


:redcard: What she said here really concerns me. I think you and she need to delve into this statement deeper.


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## TBT

BayArea said:


> my answer to her is that I would never make advances or allow advances from someone I wasnt attracted to in some way shape or form... she says well not everyons is the same


You guys really need to set some firmer boundaries for your marriage as from what she says you're not on the same page.


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## Decorum

I have a long post to follow, I apologize. I have been working on it offline, I'm pressed for time and I'm sure I'm gonna cover some ground that's been gone over already. So for what its worth...


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## Decorum

This is a tough spot. From a distance I do believe that your wife didn’t realize the hurt that flirting would bring into your/her marriage. This website and other sights are full of stories of women in deep EA/PA that started out "innocently" (it would be good if you guys read some of those together, I may post a few links, maybe others will too) 

THOUGH IT WAS NOT INNOCENT it had the appearance of innocence for at least the following 2 reasons,

1. Poor boundaries- everyone likes an ego boost but it is inappropriate for a married woman to flirt, this is left-over dating behavior. When confronted with flirtation a mature woman will make her position clear, "I am committed to my marriage and I feel that that type of talk/communication/etc. is inappropriate". Is this not the advice your wife would give to her daughters? "Stand up for yourselves and be clear whit people where you stand."

2. Naivety-(having or showing a lack of experience). Establishing a romantic/physical relationship with a woman follows certain steps. 
If a man is willing to cheat he simply starts at step one and proceeds incrementally. 

There is an old saying that "If you can get in her head you can get in her pants" The problem is women have a very hard time recognizing the impure motives of a man looking for EA/PA. The reason is that they are flattered by the attention and to admit that the motives are impure is a reflection on their self-esteem, it's a deadly blind spot- and the thing about blind spots is, well we don’t see them.

One of my co-workers said somthing that has killed my respect for him, he said "It's up to your wife to say no, if I go after her" There is some truth in that TAM is big on that (though I think women are vlunrable in some ways), my point here is that this is a common viewpoint among men who prey on others mens wives.

It is a red flag every woman (married or not, welcome or not) should recognize, when a man tries to move Acquaintanceship to friendship he is crossing a boundary (If it’s a single man and woman it may be a welcome crossing) a woman has to proceed with caution. Failure to be on your best behavior and decide where this should go can be disastrous. Most casual friends are not a threat but when a woman realizes that there is some chemistry, it is at that point she must recognize the threat to her vows or ignore it and suffer the damage.

(I'm a little old school here, all friendship is based on some chemistry and attraction, and opposite sex friends are unacceptable, they are friends of the marriage or they usually become toxic, You know she says "he broke up with his girlfriend and he just needs a shoulder to cry on..")

Levels of relationships
a) Acquaintanceship-Are in and of themselves innocent and necessary in a workplace, unless the motives of the man are to move it forward to 
friendship and emotional intimacy, i.e. he is a Buck looking for a doe in heat or maybe just an ego boost both are inappropriate. And this will 
become apparent based on where the level and topics of conversation go.

b) Friendship- casual to intimate- pretty clear that most people would never become intimate friends and never with opp sex.

c) Dating/courting

d)Marriage

e) ex's -sorry, I'm getting a bit jaded.

To summarize #2; Naivety regarding a man’s motives and the nature of how relationships progress. Can produce the appearance of innocents.
It may seem innocent under these circumstances but the stories on here do show otherwise!!


Serial cheaters have a system of breaking down a woman’s resistance with improper familiarity and slight wounds to a woman’s self-esteem, this creates a situation where the woman begins to seek the cheaters approval and cheaters are quite manipulative. Unfaithful husbands who are not quite so sophisticated may be less proficient in their methods, may have bad boundaries as well, but their motives are the same.
They can seem very family oriented, stable and good, but as they confide in each other the bond is formed and the damage is done.

This guy was hitting on you wife trying to win her interest for a EA/PA or ego boost, she maybe was just "enjoying the attention" of another man (boundary crossed) but there was nothing innocent (Naivety) about his intentions (be it EA/PA or ego boost), and it was unbecoming of your wife to enjoy it (unbecoming to her marriage, reputation at work, and herself),as well as being very risky!!


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## Decorum

Having said all that I feel I want to say that you should be very clear how to proceed from here, you do not want to cause serious damage to your relationship. If there is too much negative input you can damage the spirit of your marriage and you wife.

You have really good instincts and you seem to be a good leader in your home, good for you!
It also seems to me that your precious wife has responded VERY admirably in this situation as well! 

It was an eye opener for her, she will be more mature about these things and more open to these issues moving forward. Please supply the loving leadership that she needs, the tone should be one of growing closer in spirit and in agreement in how you live together.

If you look at the stories here you will see that there are some very clear steps that lead to a disloyal spouse. Almost always it begins with a root of resentment or bitterness that is left un-dealt with.
Some husbands ignore their wives pleading for years and then are "blindsided" by an affair! (Tam friends, it doesn’t excuse I know, I know) Usually some lack of sympathy to a need or and unkind way of relating to a wife, it is not weak to be considerate and kind.

I have come to see that we must keep our wives heart by almost the same way that another man would steal it, but we do out of true love and virtue not as a manipulation. If you read the stories here you will see what happens when a wife divides her affection to the point where she TORN. It is very damaging to her person, and that's what makes it so predatory (in my mind) for a man to do this to a woman and a marriage.

I know every fiber in you being wants and wanted to protect her from this. You are feeling jealously, anger, and fear. These are very important emotions. They are meant to lead to action to remove a threat or die trying, (not to be directed at your wife!!!)

You have taken the right actions; you have one more you are considering regarding the job. Again every fiber in you being tells you this man is a threat to your wife and family, fight or flight that is the question. Each has its place.

Here are some thoughts in a kind of pro and con list regarding her job.

1. For the rest of my life I will feel that this man cannot be trusted and is a threat to yours/our wellbeing. Period!
2. If you continue working there I will never be ok with you working with him or traveling with him. Period! (Personally I could not handle my wife traveling with a male boss or co-worker.)
3. It would give me great peace of mind if you were to find employment elsewhere, (This would be a clear reminder to her to develop and keep clear boundaries, but you don’t want to create resentment either)
4. If he has gotten in you head, even a little and we hit a rough spot in our lives (death of someone close, working through some issue, medical problems etc.) your proximity to him could afford him the opportunity to offer you sympathy and comfort that could progress to him becoming a confidant.
5. I think you underestimated the potential risk of flirting

on the other hand

1. Together we have taken the right actions to protect our relationship, and you have been right by my side and willing to do whatever it takes, and I am so pleased with your faithfulness as a wife, I have a whole new appreciation for you as a person. I really want to go through life with you and face things together. My trust in you is unshaken!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. This situation is pretty well handled (wow and how, big time smack down for him), the people who know you there, know how important we are to each other, and anyone else will be very weary of treating you with less respect that you deserve. I will never let another man mistreat you. I will always fight for you!!!!!!!!!!! I truly love you!
3. His tiptoeing around will be a reminder to both of us to keep good boundaries and the damage not having them can cause. (Just ask his wife!)
4. The change in his behavior is an example that he knew he was out of line, I would guess his wife let him know she thinks so as well.
5. You like this job and clearly learned how damaging anything approaching an emotional affair is. Its a good lifetime reminder for both of us. You are an amazing woman! I feel like we are stronger because of it!!!

I'm not going to make a recommendation other than to talk with your wife regarding it and see points on both sides, and decide together.


I do want to make a suggestion regarding jealously, anger, and fear (action emotions). I would use these as a trigger every time I felt them to take action that seeks out deeper intimacy with you wife. Consider it a blessing from the powers that be as a reminder to court you wife, communicate with her and leave no painful issues unresolved. In other words transform these emotions into constructive actions toward you relationship with you wife. Make it a conscious habit to be reminded by these to that end! You will never regret this and you will thank God for it one day.



At this point I would be saying to my wife that you admire her for her openness and her willingness to put us first and it strengthens you resolve to love her wholeheartedly, and be there for her.

Wives need praise, praise for being so attractive to you and praise for inner beauty (i.e. character- kindness, intelligence, diligence, faithfulness) Here is a link that lists 49 character qualities you can praise her for , this is good for your kids when they show them too. 49 Character Qualities 49 Character Qualities YOU GET WHAT YOU CULTIVATE!

One last thing, I would have a plan in mind to give leadership to my marriage by reading some of the recommended books here and talking about them. The five love languages is a book that i don’t think has been mentioned in this thread. I would not broadcast your plan just do it, that is leadership, no pressure just make it a part of you life to read and talk about these things. You can always say I want us to grow together not apart and I know I will love you more as the years go by.

Sorry if I sound to sentimental, just extrapolate it to your life. You are a strong man, stay that way, It sounds like your wife is a keeper.

Take care!


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## Caribbean Man

BayArea said:


> she also tells me that she never had feelings for the guy but that they just connected on a social level and that she had no desire to do anything sexual with him... my answer to her is that I would never make advances or allow advances from someone I wasnt attracted to in some way shape or form... *she says well not everyons is the same*


^^^^^^
This here is a clear indication that she is seeing everything through her perspective. I also think I remember you saying that her response to your request that she change jobs was that she will do it,
" If it made you feel better.."

To me it looks as if she is not really taking full responsibility for the situation.
She is probably thinking in her mind that you are overacting.
I sense a little resentment building on her part, and you may end up being the " jealous , controlling husband " in this matter.

Even if she" unwillingly " quits her job , you guys need to work on those issues.


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## BayArea

Decorum thank you for the great information.... it is refreshing to hear... I am trying to work on things and make them right and yes we are still talking about her job and what would be the best course of action... Thank you again for taking the time to give the insight you did I truly appreciate it.


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## OldWolf57

BA, it would be a good thing if you was to print those 2 post and let her read them. Also the book " Not Just Friends "


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## BayArea

OldWolf57 said:


> BA, it would be a good thing if you was to print those 2 post and let her read them. Also the book " Not Just Friends "


I actually did go over the post with her... she says she understands... we are discussing her departure from work and her looking for a new job.. tonight is date night with her so i want to make sure we have a great time with no arguments... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

You're Welcome,
And for tonight, have a great time, very cool, excellent!!


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## BayArea

Decorum said:


> You're Welcome,
> And for tonight, have a great time, very cool, excellent!!


Well today is a different day... my wife woke up crying that is very depressed and is going through mood swings.. she is hurt from the things that has happened in our marriage in the past and feels bad that she cant show the same love that i am trying to show her... she asked that we take time apart for a few days until we meet for counseling as such i moves into my parents house for now and i have been miserable and of course my mind races at 100 miles an hour... i want to win my wife back and have her love me like i love her... i fear that i may of lost her for good...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

BayArea said:


> Well today is a different day... my wife woke up crying that is very depressed and is going through mood swings.. she is hurt from the things that has happened in our marriage in the past and feels bad that she cant show the same love that i am trying to show her... she asked that we take time apart for a few days until we meet for counseling as such i moves into my parents house for now and i have been miserable and of course my mind races at 100 miles an hour... i want to win my wife back and have her love me like i love her... i fear that i may of lost her for good...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Not a good idea to move out. Seriously. Stay in your home.*


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## jfv

BayArea said:


> Well today is a different day... my wife woke up crying that is very depressed and is going through mood swings.. she is hurt from the things that has happened in our marriage in the past and feels bad that she cant show the same love that i am trying to show her... she asked that we take time apart for a few days until we meet for counseling as such i moves into my parents house for now and i have been miserable and of course my mind races at 100 miles an hour... i want to win my wife back and have her love me like i love her... i fear that i may of lost her for good...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


DO NOT GO ANYWHERE! Her mood swings are from the withdrawal of her drug, The OM. Her wanting time apart is so you can't interfere with her getting her fix. Call her out on it. The LAST thing this situation needs is time apart.
She's trying to isolate herself so she can attempt to escelate with the OM. Remember you still don't really know how deep this actually goes. Did i mention? DON'T GO ANYWHERE!


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## BayArea

jfv said:


> DO NOT GO ANYWHERE! Her mood swings are from the withdrawal of her drug, The OM. Her wanting time apart is so you can't interfere with her getting her fix. Call her out on it. The LAST thing this situation needs in time apart.


I beleive that the issue is with me.. i have been consumed with the while thing and i have been smothering her.... i dknt think she is pursuing the om i really beleive she needs time alone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

I need to collect a bunch of posts where people come back and say "well, you guys were right..." The problem is that dealing with waywards is counter-intuitive. The stuff you think should work doesn't work. She is meeting with him. 

Stop in and surprise her.


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## BayArea

sandc said:


> I need to collect a bunch of posts where people come back and say "well, you guys were right..." The problem is that dealing with waywards is counter-intuitive. The stuff you think should work doesn't work. She is meeting with him.
> 
> Stop in and surprise her.


She is home with our daughter... and the om wife knows what went on so he is on look down now too..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man

BayArea said:


> She is home with our daughter... and the om wife knows what went on so he is on look down now too..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has a free pass to communicate with him, once you leave.
She is in a state of confusion because of her withdrawal . She will reach out to him.
You need to keep him out of the equation.


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## jfv

They don't necesarily have to see eachother, and the attempt to contact him doesn't have to be succesful its the fact that she's trying to get you out in order to try. Even if it is about you, just don't go anywhere. Give her space in the house, don't smother her, etc. But do not physically go anywhere. If you do you'll be sorry.


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## Acabado

Just searching OM at facebook makes ther deal (getting new fixes). She's on drugs.
Detach from her, focus on you, start improving yourself. Take care of your daughter. Let her deal with "her loss". Damm.


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## The bishop

Not good.... She is two steps ahead of you. She is pushing back and you are allowing it, now she knows she can do this to you anytime to get you off her back. You shouldn't of left, she should of. 

You are already questioning how you treat her.... Your doomed.


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## The bishop

She was the one that cheated not you... So why does it seem to be the opposite :scratchhead:


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## jfv

OP, please tell her that it is not a good idea for you to be out of the house for any prolonged period of time. Pay careful attention to her reaction. Btw, Why is it that she needed space? What did she actually say.?


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## BayArea

Folks I do understand your point of view... but in all honesty I have been very consuming with her since everything happened and I do beleive a brief time apart may be beneficial... We talk about the incident everday and I get upset about it and I know it drives her away and that she just needs to take some time to think to herself and understand..... I actually was the one to bring up sometime apart and at first she was against it but then agreed... we have been down each others throat eeverday about this incident and it is not healthy for either of us.


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## jfv

hope i'm wrong. good luck. keep us posted


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## BayArea

The bishop said:


> Not good.... She is two steps ahead of you. She is pushing back and you are allowing it, now she knows she can do this to you anytime to get you off her back. You shouldn't of left, she should of.
> 
> You are already questioning how you treat her.... Your doomed.


She did offer to leave to her parents house.... I told her it would be best to stay at the house since our daughter doesn't need the disruption... My parents and hers both agree this may be good to do until our Tuesday night counseling session... I know everyone says this is a bad idea but something in me says it may be the best thing to do for now... she actually talked to me over the phone a few minutes ago and said that her parents recommended to her to quit her job if she wants to save our marriage... she told them she was scared to incase something didnt work out with us she would be worried on what to do... her parents reassured her and said to not worrry about that and that if she needed help they would help her... the told her the most important thing to do is remove the threat from the marriage to focus on fixing it...


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## sandc

She's got awesome parents.


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## TRy

BayArea said:


> Folks I do understand your point of view... but in all honesty I have been very consuming with her since everything happened and I do beleive a brief time apart may be beneficial... We talk about the incident everday and I get upset about it and I know it drives her away and that she just needs to take some time to think to herself and understand..... I actually was the one to bring up sometime apart and at first she was against it but then agreed... we have been down each others throat eeverday about this incident and it is not healthy for either of us.


 She was in an emotional affair (EA) and you caught her. Cheating 101 teaches the cheater to blame shift, get the cheated on to doubt themselves and question if they are over reacting to being cheated on, and to then claim that the cheater is being driven away by the cheated on when the cheated on reacts in a normal way to the affair. She cheated and now has taken control of the situation from you because you let her.

Her desire for separation confirms that due to the EA she has emotionally detached from you and your marraige. It also give her a chance to better take it underground. As for the the other man's wife watching, that is all part of the game; she thinks that you are watching and you think that she is watching when in fact neither of you are.

A MC can do nothing to stop an EA. They can only help once both of you are on the same page. If you think that the MC is going to do the heavy lifting, you are fooling yourself. Listen to all of us when we tell you to move back in now. Today. It is a given that separation does not help make a marraige better. Everyone thinks that they are different and the exception to the rule. The truth is you are not.


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## Decorum

Bay,
Calm down.
You have been smothering her-stop it! You are scaring her!
Great parents!!!
You are in good shape here!!!

She sees the waywardness in her own heart. Give her time to deal with it.

Everything these others posters are saying must be considered, its all good advice in the right context!

I did not want to say it yesterday but you need to maintain watchfulness, keyloggers on computers, phones, gps on phones/car, VAR Voice activated recorders,etc all valid if you suspect she will contact OM. Also transparency is part of marriage.

I'm not inclined to think that is the immediate issue, but I would put keyloggers on and check emails , phone logs.

I think she may be having some withdrawals, she would have these even if she hated the om - Chill!

I warned you that obsessing would push her away.

When people say detach they are takling about the 180 you need to crank that up pronto!!! Be approachable and open but cool and detached a bit.
That means no obsessing in front of her!!!!!!!!

I dont believe that she is about to run away with the OM.
I think she would be crushed to lose you and her family.

If you stay out of the house till your MC on tue, do not agree to stay out any longer. And for goodness sake take responsibility at MC if it comes up for smothering her, "Yea I was out of line. was a bit of an obsessive needy creep!" Thats all counter to 180 anyway.

Keep us posted, read up, there are a lot of good people here that want to help, be confident show her confidence, she needs to be able trust you too. For now do not bring up this website again, to her or MC.

p.s.
I dont think its going that way but do not agree to any long term seperation with you leaving the house. Talk to us first!!
P.S.S.
If you should find some communication between her and the OM (again I dont think you will), do not, do not, do not, just run to her and confront her with it!!! Bring it here first. 
Also never tell a spouse who is communicating with an OM/OW how you got the info, like "I know what you said cause I have a VAR in your car, or I cheked your emails without you knowing it. The evidense should be collected and used strategically, but we can cross that bridge when we get to it and like you I dont think we will.


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## Decorum

One more time, 180, 180, 180!!!!!!!!


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## Machiavelli

BA,

You were advised numerous times to read and apply MMSL to your situation, yet you have ignored that advice. How do I know this? Because of your actions. Order the fVcking book and read it. 

How old are you two?


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## Decorum

Bay,
That book is a must read for you. It will change your life. Dont delay!


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## Decorum

Also dont minimize this "she is hurt from the things that has happened in our marriage in the past and feels bad that she cant show the same love that i am trying to show her" 

She has some resentment and guilt, its good this comes out, you should be glad she is even telling you this, it is a very good sign, you will work on this in MC, hopefully!

These things live in a womans heart, and I'm not suprised to hear it. It explains alot. It takes things like these to begin the steps of disloyality that lead to EA/PA.

Do you even know what some of these things are? There may be some things that come out that will shock you, are you ready for that?

You have some work to do, so does she, you must take responsibility for you part in any issues in your marriage that have hurt her, show true remorse, ask forgiveness, Not "I'm sorry I did that or this". First try to live the offense through the other persons eyes, then identify what you did really, and do it this way, are you ready "I was WRONG to say those unkind words/ignored your opinion/was lazy (or whatever), I realize now how badly it hurt you, it would mean everything to me if you would forgive me" Then stop and wait for an answer. If she says I cant right now say I understand, I will do whatever it takes to repair the hurt I have caused. then leave it be!!! and show love without words, give the other person time to process it. It takes time for a woman to work through things sometimes. Remember forgiveness is a wounderful gift, no one owes you forgiveness.

Dont you dare minimize any of this, be grave about it but not maudlin. Dont cry and feel sorry for yourself here.

Feel free to pm me if you like anytime.


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## Decorum

Bay,
when the issues in your marriage are discussed at MC, be serious, attentive and non defensive, (a bit reserved and thoughful) let her see that these things are importent, you attitude should be "I want to hear and understand everything you have to say to me"

Dont be needy or clingy, but if she needs physical reassurance then give it!!

I'm sure the MC will have things he/she wants you to do. Do it on time but dont push your wife.

btw I'm not saying you should "smother her with forgiveness requests either. Dont let "Losing Her" be the motive behind what you do. 

Asking forgiveness is the right thing to do! 

You might wait until she has brought out most or all of her concerns before you even address them. Use good judgment here, stay out of her face.

Bay, do not let your mind run away with you, maybe some things will come out at MC that will shock you, wait and see.
Deal with it then.

You want to be married to this girl for your whole life right, so some weeks even months to get the issues out and understood is very resonable. Dont rush it,working through problems is part of living with your wife.

The pain and uncertanity you will feel at this time is your friend, men need this to make changes, remember she is feeling this way and more so. 

That genuine pain in damaging your relationship is the basis for true remorse. And true remorse often wins true forgiveness

Be honest in this if she asks, tell her "its unsettling and painful to live with uncertanity in our relationship and to realize I have done things that have hurt you or our marriage, but I want to be the best husband I can be for you and the best father I can be for our children."


read this post of Annieash
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/54243-im-wife-emotional-affair.html

She was in an EA, alot deeper that your wife, notice the pain and emptyness in her life because of a basically good husband who is emotionally neglectful, and stingy with attention. 

His mistake is so common but really its an enormous mistake. And Annie pleaded with her husband for attention, and even went to him with her EA, and he still does not get it.

People here at TAM are big on not excusing EA/PA, but putting someone through years of suffering in a relationship because of selfishness borders on evil also.

I will just tell you outright that some of the things I'm saying here would be quite different is she were actively pursuing an EA/PA.

I would be saying File, collect evidence, expose, NC.

I dont believe that is the case, I'm sure I'm making many others cringe!

Bay, trust your instincts, their good, (just dont be so needy),
there are people on here that waited 2 or 3 years just to take the actions you have already taken.

Remember this is a website after all, truth stands or falls on it own merit, and you have to use your best judgment.

take care!


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## BayArea

Thank you for the post Decorum...


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## Decorum

Bay,
as per our discussion I'm gonna post our couple PM's for the wider community to see and comment on.
Thanks


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## Decorum

A Pm from BayArea

Thank you for your post and insight... it means a great deal to me.. I try to filter what I read on this site but I do feel that your points are spot on... it scares me that she wants to be away from me and not be with me but I understand that I am at fault for this entire situation.. in fact I beleive that it was a big eye opener for me to take notice of the importance in my life which is my family... I pray every night that if we recover on this I will be the best husband to her for the rest of my life... 

It does scare me to be away from home cause I do the what if thoughts and what if she is doing this or that or anything else my mind can conjour up..


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## Decorum

Decorums reply,

I want you two to work this out because I believe you both want that too. (Btw answering from my phone) so ill keep it short)
There is so much I dont know about you guys, somtimes (i dont think so here) somone asks for help and u give advice but they r having their own affair or r abusive, etc, etc.

Do you believe there could have been anything like this before (for her)?
Has she ever found out about somthing like this before (for you)?
Be honest.

You have some reason for concern when she says, she cant love u like u love her.
This could be guilt for some things u dont know- dont go after her for this just wait.
Or it could be resentment- MC will help here
Or it coukd be u smothering-she is a working mom right- its easy to let relationships slip
In all there u need a LONG TERM plan, not a quick fix- so chill

The only thing that would require "High action mode" is if she were currently in contact with some OM!

I really think the posom at work is done, but if u have some concern that he is still in picture, or some one else let me know.

Can u tell me what things from u guys past she is talking about?

2 more things, her emotions are blocked a bit, removing those blocks is job one-this is all about communication and taking responsibility, 
Also- now LISTEN-from now on u conversations shoud be relaxed,easy n fun!!! Like u were dating. This is very important. If u talk about issues u should do with a quiet peace and confidence. U need to man up here!

2nd thing is, she has some work to do on understanding how to help u get past the flirting event.
She is not ready for that yet, so u have to suck it up n wait.
Buf its on the way.

U want her to feel she can open up with u not dread it, very important!!

Btw i work 7pm to 7am, n use a computer there, on phone now.
I will be checking u thread, pm me anytime-i do sleep occasionally. Ha ha

About me, im 54, married 25 yrs, 4 kids, 3 jn college 1 in High school.
My wife n I have had our problems over the years, but still very much in love, its worth whatever it taked to make it work, believe me. And using this wedsite TAM has been a real help to me, read some of the threads when u can but if it starts messing with u mind lay off.

Get that book today mmsl

I'm praying for u guys.
Take care


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## Decorum

A PM from BayArea,

Thank you again for your time and direction... To answer you question she does have doubts in her mind that I had an affair in the past with someone she worked with because the girl was attractive and and going through a divorce and was always asking her to come over our house.. this women would only see me at company events and when I went by my wifes work, my wife was unconfortable with us talking when we saw each other but I never knew that it bothered her. I assured her we never did anything together nor did I have sex with her and she said ok... also in the past I had a friend that was getting a divorce and his wife knew I was his support person to get me away from him she started saying that I slept with her which my wife still has thoughts to this day that I possibly did, which I didnt.... I have been an ass over the years with things and tried to control everything which still happens today. 

Regarding with contact with the OM she does still see him at work and they actually work on the same team.. she says they only discuss things needed for work but it kills me inside to wonder the "what if" which results in me asking her 20 different questions of what went on during the work day... Since we have been taking time apart since yesterday i started to feel down today and called her during lunch to see what she was doing... I asked her if I could stop by and say Hi and she said that she would rather wait till our counseling tomorrow night... It tore me apart and made me angry that she wouldnt let me say hi and see her for a second... the thoughts went through my head as to what is she doing.... why doesnt she want to see and on and on.. I ended up going by her work and we got into an argument and she went home early... We ended up meeting later in the evening and went to dinner... I told her I was ok with taking time apart but I could not handle a total 100% detachment... that I still needed some sort of interaction even if its just a text...


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## Decorum

A PM from Decorum,

Bay,
Just so you know I will not post anything online from a PM before asking you and getting your permission.

That said I would like to post my reply to your pm, minus my personel info, I just put that there so I would not just be a big ? otherwise if feels so onesided.

It good to post online, because thereare good poeple there, some are only following for now but will jump in if they see a red flag, or want to call me out on somthing. Also if you are in a crunch at least anyone replying is up to date.

That said feel free to pm, if you post and want to let me know with a pm thats fine too, but I will be checking you thread anyway.

If there is somthing you dont want to post public I will respect that.

So let me know if my reply can be posted in part or whole, no hurry
Thanks,


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## Decorum

A PM from BayArea,

Thank you for asking... please feel free to post it... I think I am ok with everything I am saying showing up since I keep personal details of identity out of it.. thank you again for asking


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## Decorum

A PM from Decorum,

You need to be a better man than you are being.
All this needy-ness is having the opposite effect.
You can see this right? You need to do the 180 and work on yourself!
Going to her work and all that makes you look weak, its not all about looks, but YOU need to change, the kind of things talked about her on TAM can really help.

stop looking needy cause it hurts your cause, an make some changes in yourself so you are not so needy/obsessive, small steps thats all.

You need to to become a better man worthy of a good wife, your wife has some growing to do also.
But you focus on you, decide to do it for yourself not just or her, if you do it for her its a lopside motive and will not stand the test of time.

I think she is gonna giive you time to improve yourself and your marriage, be glad, that may be more than you deserve, not trying to be harsh, just saying...

The book married mans sex life is not about sex it about being a man that attracts you partner, have you downloaded a copy from amazon and started reading it yet? Or are you just sitting around thinking bout stuff?

I hope this does not sound trite, but the pain you feel now she has had to endre over both these events ( your 2 affair scares), the doubts, the feeling of loss, etc.

Did you ever realize how hard that was? How hard it was for her to still be wondering if you were unfaithful?

Someday tell her, "the thought of you with another person was the most painful thing I have evey known, and when I realized that you may have felt this way because of (Those events), I was crushed, and I would do anything to give you assurance that nothing happened, even take a Lie-Detector test, (btw its done all the time for this I think it costs around $500) its not 100% but its still somthing.

Bay, you cant just get over this and get back to normal, normal is not good for her, she deserves better.

You really can make changes, and her respect for you will go through the roof if you do, stop racking you brain, use that energy and get involved in the real fight of being a better man and husband.

Big point here dont keep telling her you want to be better, show her (BTW if she notices ,she will wonder if its gonna last, thats why you have to do it for yourself. so it does)

Do you really want to be an ass toward your wife for the rest of your life?

You promised in your vows to love and cherish right?

You should seriously consider Individual counseling for youself in addition to MC.

Both my wife and I have been in IC and MC in the past no shame there, the can help you work on some of this stuff.
Find a counselor that can help you make progress if they dont find another.

Have you done any reading yet?

Thank you for this extra information, it explains a lot.
I'm not judging my friend, just trying to be clear without being to blunt.

Take care!


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## Decorum

A PM from BayArea,

Yes I did purchase the MMSL from Amazon after I read your first PM and I am reading it now... And also please be blunt no need to sugar coat it I am a grown man that needs and can handle the truth ... thanks


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## OldWolf57

OK, so you MAYBE has been obsessed with this, WHAT the hell does she expect ??? For it to be rug sweeped that she was flirting with another man, that she is attracted to other man ??? That she lied ??

And now you are taking all the blame, yeah got that. But she KNOWS how you are. So she should have expected this reaction from you.
AND,,,, all of a sudden she can't love you the way you love her, and want some time apart.

Good Luck with that.


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## Decorum

This is the end of our series of PM'S


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## OldWolf57

I saw one line in the above post that said she deserved better. Are the enabler from doc cool coming here again.

We have had that before. Cheaters coming from there giving advice on how to win a cheater back, or how to treat them better. Let them do their thing an wait for them.

No consequences mean they do it again. WHO IS DECORUM ???


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## Decorum

Bay,
You go back into your home after MC, your a family and thats where family happens. Thats where you work on things.
No body is in danger, so its where you belong.

But gosh blessit be easier to live with even if you have to fake it for now. Or just say "Let me give you some space (different room for a bit) because i recognize my thoughts and feelings and not helpful at the moment and I need to deal with myself.


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## Decorum

Hi oldwolf,
what are you wanting to know?


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## OldWolf57

r you from doc cool ??

How does going to her job make him look weak ?? 

We advise exposing to the job.
That show he is willing to fight for his family. 
Too many come here and ignore this, and pay the price.


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## Decorum

i just saw you whole post oldwolf, sorry it was covered on screen.

cheater no never have!

doc cool dont know anything about it.

No consequences mean they do it again. WHO IS DECORUM ??? 

I agree completely, did you read the whole thred?
He took more action in a couple days than most do in 6 months.

He owns nothing for her EA!

The man has been being an ass to his wife for some years.
He owns 50% for his marriage!
He hs a responsibility to remove his causes for offence.
She does deserve better! So does he!


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## Decorum

we posted over each other.
Listen he has already exposed to work HR, her Boss, and Om's wife.
and both sets of parents.

He went to work at lunch after agreeing to a 2 day respit of hammerinh her on the head, and that was very needy.

I am not gonna replay the whole thread here, go read it!


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## Decorum

Also in serious talk with wife finding new job , with parents saying this would be good so they can work on marriage and she is willing.

down boy!


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## OldWolf57

1st, doc cool.com is a cheaters site that post like this one.
And no i didn't read the whole post. I am more interested in the BS posts.
And we have seen enablers post good advice, but sprinkle in the lil insidious destructive enabling sutff with them. So I am always looking for those ppl.


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## OldWolf57

I will read the PM's later. 
Trying to watch the game also.


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## Decorum

Well,
Call me out on it if you think I am giving some advice that will hurt him, But I dont think this is a typical case.


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## jfv

Just curious. What is it that you see that makes it Atypical?


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## Decorum

Good question, This is all I got.
It was caught at an early stage, flirting, and I dont see that a strong emotional attachment was formed. He has a solid timeline and his wife was not responding to the more sexual emails, non of them were explicit, just innapropriate, but was enjoying the attention. It seems to me that he caught it before the trap had been sprung.

As far as we can tell ther was NO sharing of feelings for each other (you know I love you I lone you back) that took place.

They are young and she is naive with poor boundries, they have a bad marriage (no excuse) If it turns out there were other EA/PS's than that would be different, but i think it is what it appears to be.

She has minimizied it some but has been forthright there after.

He acted quickly with exposure and his wife cooperated very well.

And I think it would be easy to lump this in with harder situations and that I think would be a mistake.
What say ye?


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## Machiavelli

BA's PM sez said:


> ...she does have doubts in her mind that I had an affair in the past with someone she worked with because the girl was attractive and and going through a divorce and was always asking her to come over our house.. this women would only see me at company events and when I went by my wifes work, my wife was unconfortable with us talking when we saw each other but I never knew that it bothered her. I assured her we never did anything together nor did I have sex with her and she said ok...


Your wife was irrational about this relationship because she was "projecting" her motives and actions from her past or present onto your innocent actions. If a woman accuses a husband with no more evidence or reason than your wife had, I would consider that a red flag. Maybe your wife had something going on at her previous place of employment and this girl knew about it. Whatever her reasons may have been for such an irrational overreaction, you would have to figure she had something cooking. In light of the recent developments at your wife's present job, I'd say it's a sure thing. 



BA's PM sez said:


> Regarding with contact with the OM she does still see him at work and they actually work on the same team.. she says they only discuss things needed for work


Women's sexual attraction to men is a function of the limbic brain, not the cortex. It cannot be controlled by logic and reason once it has been activated. Because of the dopamine rush she gets around this guy, the attraction is refueled when she is in his presence. Consider how often women end up feverishly banging men they loath upon first introduction. Their rational mind, the cortex, knows these men are players and to be avoided. That ends up being overridden by the limbic, formerly so-called "reptilian" brain.

If you're going to try to stay together, the job has to go.




BA's PM sez said:


> but it kills me inside to wonder the "what if" which results in me asking her 20 different questions of what went on during the work day...


As well you should. All it takes is 5 minutes in a broom closet. Just keep a running inventory on her panty supply if she's going to stay at that job. 



BA's PM sez said:


> Since we have been taking time apart since yesterday i started to feel down today and called her during lunch to see what she was doing...* I asked her if I could stop by and say Hi *and she said that she would rather wait till our counseling tomorrow night... It tore me apart and made me angry that she wouldnt let me say hi and see her for a second... the thoughts went through my head as to what is she doing.... why doesnt she want to see and on and on.. I ended up going by her work and we got into an argument and she went home early...


Firstly, that bolded part makes you look like a needy, girl repellant, gamma or omega type. Don't ask her anything, just do. After all, your are a man, right? You're demonstrating to her that you're a low sexual value male. This reinforces her opinion of you as not man enough for her and encourages further detachment.

If you'd take the time to read MMSL or Roissy, you'd know what's going on here. Your wife has lost sexual attraction for you, which is totally natural after 4-7 years of exclusivity, and this was made worse by her involvement with OM. Your wife's limbic brain sexual drivers have not lived up to the morals of her cortex (rational mind). Your wife doesn't understand this, all she knows is she is acting like a sloot and wants to be nailed by the OM and she is trying to rationalize her behavior. It can't be her fault, understand? Therefore her rationalization hamster has helped her come to the conclusion that it's your fault. If you were really her Prince Charming, the guy she was meant to be with happily ever after, then she would have never had a sexual reaction to OM. This means you are not really her soul mate, so you have to go. Separating helps her along the road to detaching from you. 

The only way you can turn this around, if you're really sure you want to, is to Alpha up? Do you understand? it's completely counter intuitive. It's like the Nam, if you want to save the village you have to be willing to burn it down. In fact you have to whip out your Zippo.









Notice you are at war for your marriage here. Assuming you still want her for some reason.



BA's PM sez said:


> We ended up meeting later in the evening and went to dinner... I told her I was ok with taking time apart but I could not handle a total 100% detachment... that I still needed some sort of interaction even if its just a text...


You need to jolt her back into the house. She wants to experience more brain sex rush with OM(s) and detachment helps facilitate rewiring everything away from your relationship and the guilt she feels. If the rationalization hamster tells her it's over, guilt is suppressed. You've got to hard core here. Cut off all commo with her, but put the word out that you're seeing an attorney.

Completely change your hairstyle to something off the wall, change your wardrobe by upscaling it. If you don't normally wear suits, start doing so. If you already wear Jos A Bank suits, switch to Hugo Boss, etc. Take up hardcore bodybuilding and get rid of your gut. Your wife needs to hear changes are happening, but she needs to hear it through the grapevine, not directly.

Moving away draws her back into the house. Maybe. But it's the only shot you've got.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Excellent post mach. In actuality attraction begins from sight amd sexual attraction begins with the nose. The MHC factor. Once the novelty of a mew attraction kindles the dopamine starts kicking in. Bay, I dont understand why you are jot in your own home and she wants space. You are wasting your time and money in counseling if she is not willing to work withyour requests and her parents request. You might get a horrible counselor who will blame everything on you, which is completely bogus, and she may get a new job and start all over again. Cheating habit needs to be killed with transparency and avoidance of ocassions to cheat. Company parties, lunch with oppoaite sex friends, girls night out, after work text/voice convos etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jfv

Mach and Clean. Finally, some advice that makes sense.


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## Thundarr

Machiavelli said:


> If you're going to try to stay together, the job has to go.


This is a fact OP. R without NC chances are slim to none. Add any dynamic of you being needy and your chances are almost zero for lasting R. OM is not the only problem with her job. It's the lack of consequences combined with unattractive behavior on your part that may undo you.


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## BayArea

I was talking to my wife this morning on her way to work and she said she is ready to put in her two week notice today... it scares me a bit for a few reasons.. A) I dont want her to resent me for having to quit (yes I know she was the one that caused the issue right now) but I also understand I have been an @$$ for most of our marriage.. B) I am in the process of changing jobs and I want to make sure I get into the new position with ease and feel secured. C) sometimes I think it is better to Dance with the devil I know than the one I dont, meaning I know the situation at her job and although I have doubts I trully feel that they will never have anything in the future. As it stands the guy fears the sight of seeing me when I go to her office to pick her up for lunch and my wife has recognized the hurt she caused in our marriage and to our families. I know people will say that leaving her their would be dumb but I am also trying to be rational... this was flirting over chat and he was advancing on her which she accepted but at times when he tried to progress to going somewhere or advancing more she did stop him ( I have proof since I saw the chats) 

She tells me she is scared to leave her job and not have one in place if for some reason I ended up leaving her... she is fearful that I would leave her after she doesnt have a job... I dont want her to be scared doing this and have that fear creep into the issues we already have.... We have been discussing that maybe she can continue looking for another job and leave once she has one in place. 

The reason I am taking time out is to give her space... in all honesty I can be a very consuming person and I have been consuming her and making her feel suffocated.. Everytimg we get some time alone all I do is ask her questions and get upset and it does push her away... I dont want to lose my wife and I do recognize that I need to make some huge changes to make my marriage work.


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## sinnister

If asking questions is enough to push your wife away there are larger problems in the marriage. You seem insecure..a little over the top for this situation. Listen, I am the last person that can be confused with an enabler, but I think you need to be a bit stronger than you've been.

The clingyness and neediness is what is causing her to re-evaluate things. I know it's a natural reaction but it has to be curbed if you want a shot. It just seems like there are some broader issues going on in this marriage. Leaving over you questioning her everyday seems very rash.


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## Machiavelli

sinnister said:


> *The clingyness and neediness is what is causing her to re-evaluate things.* I know it's a natural reaction but it has to be curbed if you want a shot. It just seems like there are some broader issues going on in this marriage. *Leaving over you questioning her everyday seems very rash.*


Correct on the clinging behaviors and overall lack of manly attitude being detractors. And what is she hiding? I think she's addicted to the brain sex chemistry high she gets from having strange men hit on her. After all, it's the way the system is designed, so why shouldn't she enjoy it? The real question is how far has she gone in the past, that you don't even know about, chasing that chemistry?

This is an answer that will remain unknowable. My advice would be to Alpha up from now on and monitor her from now on.

BTW, for the OP, your wife won't resent you for taking the leadership role and having her quit her job. She wants you to be the man. That's why she married you. Be the man. Or somebody else will.


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## Chaparral

BayArea said:


> I was talking to my wife this morning on her way to work and she said she is ready to put in her two week notice today... it scares me a bit for a few reasons.. A) I dont want her to resent me for having to quit (yes I know she was the one that caused the issue right now) but I also understand I have been an @$$ for most of our marriage.. B) I am in the process of changing jobs and I want to make sure I get into the new position with ease and feel secured. C) sometimes I think it is better to Dance with the devil I know than the one I dont, meaning I know the situation at her job and although I have doubts I trully feel that they will never have anything in the future. As it stands the guy fears the sight of seeing me when I go to her office to pick her up for lunch and my wife has recognized the hurt she caused in our marriage and to our families. I know people will say that leaving her their would be dumb but I am also trying to be rational... this was flirting over chat and he was advancing on her which she accepted but at times when he tried to progress to going somewhere or advancing more she did stop him ( I have proof since I saw the chats)
> 
> She tells me she is scared to leave her job and not have one in place if for some reason I ended up leaving her... she is fearful that I would leave her after she doesnt have a job... I dont want her to be scared doing this and have that fear creep into the issues we already have.... We have been discussing that maybe she can continue looking for another job and leave once she has one in place.
> 
> The reason I am taking time out is to give her space... in all honesty I can be a very consuming person and I have been consuming her and making her feel suffocated.. Everytimg we get some time alone all I do is ask her questions and get upset and it does push her away... I dont want to lose my wife and I do recognize that I need to make some huge changes to make my marriage work.


It looks like from your posts you haven't taken the most important advise you have recieved..... Read MMSL now like you should have done when it was first suggested.


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## BayArea

chapparal said:


> It looks like from your posts you haven't taken the most important advise you have recieved..... Read MMSL now like you should have done when it was first suggested.


I did purchase the MMSL book last night and started reading it...


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## Machiavelli

BayArea said:


> I did purchase the MMSL book last night and started reading it...


I guarantee you that's the best $10,000 you'll ever spend.


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## Decorum

Bay, if you two discussed it, and she is willing to do it for the good of her marriage, let her. Quit second gussing yourself. I dont think resentment under that condition is a big worry.
Realize that this is an investment on her part in the relationship, and part of genuine remorse ( in spite if what some say), show approval, and appreciation, "I respect the investment you are making in our marriage and I appreciate YOU so much" . (btw this will freak out some posters here, "what she f's up your marriage and u are thanking her, she should be glad u didnt kick her a$$ to the curb, i would have filed already", not trying to Dis any posters!)

Bay, its your life, you are living it, use your best judgment, 

You will establish transparency on both sides of the marriage and that will help you with the un-known devils.
There will be good advice on transparency forthcomming.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

BA you and her could give it 6 months at the job to see if you can truly be OK with her working there.
I don't think from read your post that she responded when he tried to escalate. She was only willing to go so far.
Also now that you have stepped to the job and exposed, he will be on his best behaviour, if he values his job and marriage. 
Dude, you shot him down like a mad dog, then SHE went to HR with it.
I feel confident you have nothing to worry about from him. They can work together for the next 30 yrs, and I bet he won't put a foot wrong.

Now, you just have to step up and stop being so clingy and follow the book. Show her, after telling her.

I finally went back and read the ones I skipped, and Decorum sound spot on. So pay attention to his posts.

AND,,,, find out what those resentments are.

believe me, you guys are not heading for D, you are just affair proffing your marriage and making it and you two stronger.


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## Decorum

Bay, .
What old wolf said is valid, i'm on the fence here, for the reasons Wolf said.
Thats why I didnt make any recomendations. 
The good news is that means i dont believe either one is a bad course.
The two of you have to decide together, remember to respect her opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

Just to be clear OldWolf's suggestion is one I hadn't considered, but I think it has a lot of merit.

Its hours later so it may be decided already, i wish we would have had this discussion yesterday.
Sorry mate. 
I hope MC goes well, keep thinking long term, take small solid steps.
There is an ebb and flow in MC that we can talk about.
Having a 3rd party creates some dynamics that you need to be aware of, so you dont get frustrated.
But you will probably figure that out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Bay,

Just have her quit, with respect to your wife, whom I hope it was only an EA/inappropriate conversations, she should have thought about you leaving her BEFORE she failed to set the boundaries with this co worker. The majority of these problems occur because one man/woman tests the waters with inappropriate comments/talk and when one does not set the boundaries it is seen as a green light. Most people are too nice to say "look thats inappropriate to tell a married woman/man please stop, keep this professional, I do not want problems at work with HR or with be involved with any co worker more than I need to"

This only gives you more incentive to keep a watch on her AFTER she quits and AFTER she gets a new job. This sounds horrible but you have to KEEP WATCH OVER HER, she may relapse, and she needs you to KEEP her away from relapsing because SHE cannot and has already showed that she cannot withstand advances from OTHER MEN.


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## BayArea

We did go to counseling last night and things went well... I came home last night... during counseling she said she does want me home but she needs me to stop with drowing her and allowing this whole incident to consume us... Regarding her job we are agreeeing to have her look for a new job and once she finds one to leave, but if at anytime I want her to submit notice she will do so immediately.. I went to her work on monday and her and I were outside arguing... her boss and some other coworkers noticed and later when she went in her boss asked her if the argument outside had to do with the other coworker... she told him yes and that she may need to resign... her boss told her to take the rest of the day off to think about things... when she went to work yesterday she was told that they did call the other coworker in and talked with him and also wrote him up for sending inapporiate things through company equipment (IE. Sexual songs and comments) he was told that if any incidnet like this happens again with anyone in the office he would be terminated... I wish they would of fired him on the spot but o well.... It did make me feel better that he is on notice now.... Now here is the kicker... when HR spoke with my wife they said the understood the situation and that this coworker has been know to be a little flirty but no one ever took him for reall...so they are saying that they have always been ok with this behavior which blows my F'in mind.... anyway... my wife and I do want to keep progressing and moving forward and during counseling she brought up that she needs me to stop being so controlling with her and to allow her some control in life ( I have always been a bit on the controlling side.. ok not a bit ALOT) I recognize that I do need to allow her space to move and to Trust... but I told her I will trust and verify when I want to until I can feel confident that she will never allow this to happen again... on another note I have also learned that I have been guilty of the samething (Flirting) in a way that bothers her, when she is with me... During counseling we talked about how I am a very talkative and friendly to people when I meet them... She talked about an incident a few months ago when we went to a restaurant to eat and our waitress and I were talking about her life and school and as such.. now keep in mind my wife is sitting next to me, but she said that it bothered her that I was so friendly with this person and it made her feel like I had a desire to get to know her and it made my wife feel a little upset and scared... my wife admittied that she would wonder if I would go back to see this person.. now mind you she has had these feelings with other women before and to be honest I never thought they bothered her and made her feel insecure.... So I have began to focus my attention to my wife when we are out somewhere and especially if another women that may seem like a threat to my wife is present... 

During counseling it was brought up that a lot of our arguments come from a result of me trying to put test in place to see what my wife does... I do this without even thinking about it... I expect a certain reaction or respose from my wife and at times she doesnt understand what I am looking for so when she doesnt do what I expect things escalate and an argument begins... I am realizing I need to stop these things now and just tell her what I want her to do and see if she would like to or not... its not about being submissive about it just telling each other what we want and need.... last night I did want to make love with her but she was tired and just wanted me to hold her... i resisted being upset about it and complied and we layed down to watch TV while I held her in my arms... she ended up falling asleep in my arms and it felt great to have her so close... 

I have been happy since yesterday and I feel different inside... I hope to keep moving in this direction... I do beleive my wife is a good person that has been hurt by me for many years.... I am not trying to down play what she did, just saying that I need to change my ways and make her feel secured and safe so she can relax and enjoy life as well... to be honest I have been a pain in the @$$ for a long time and am suprised she never left me before all of this....


We have also never discussed boundaries in the past of what we expect which has now been discussed and put in place to make sure we both feel secure in what is going on...


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## Decorum

Bay, 
That is good progress for a first session, wow, stay on this path and she will feel like a loved woman.
When a controling spouce starts to change it raises the respect and appreciation factor in the other spouce by several orders of magnitude, because they know that you are changing what comes natural to you for them, l'm a bit misty eyed for you guys at the moment.

My relationship with my wife was upsidedown for a lot of years, me passive, her controling (we have fixed that now) but she used to do the same things with questions, and it really pushed my buttons, always looked like she had some ulterior motive, and all the extra questioning about the small stuff, it was sooo annoying, it took us 15 min to have a 5 min conversation. It was not a small thing to me at all, I know EXACTLY how your wife feels.

The direct approach is the more considerate way.

Well done, please keep us updated.
Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BayArea

No things have changed.... my wife says she feels depressed and sad and needs some time to think about things... also, I noticed on her work emails that she is going to the gun range with her coworkers (ALL MALES) next Friday for a team event... I dont think it is right for her to be going to a gun range with a bunch of me... espcially since the OM is in this group too.... I havent said anything to her yet but I am boiling right now


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## Thundarr

BayArea said:


> No things have changed.... my wife says she feels depressed and sad and needs some time to think about things... also, I noticed on her work emails that she is going to the gun range with her coworkers (ALL MALES) next Friday for a team event... I dont think it is right for her to be going to a gun range with a bunch of me... espcially since the OM is in this group too.... I havent said anything to her yet but I am boiling right now


Tell her it's out of bounds. Can't be more simple than that. If she goes anyway then you know which direction to take and it's not R. For that matter if she doesn't go but is mad at you about it then same thing.


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## Decorum

This is a boundry issue, DO NOT BLOW UP AT HER, there is NO WAY she should go anywhere alone with other men, needing time is a big red flag! Tell her this kind of behavour jepordises your relationship, tell her you will not be in an open relationship, and you will not share you wife with another man. The time thing and the sex thing can be indicators of cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

You ARE NOT being controling in these expectations, her going with other men after what she did is very disrepectful of you and so thoughtless about your feelings remember anger is not the way but deffinately let her know you are seeing red!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

Thundar is spot on, we posted at same time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Let her bring up the issue. It could be that this event was planned well before and she might be trying to get out of it before telling you.


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## Decorum

Bay, if she is in a relationship with another man, this space n time thing without sex is a typical cheaters sign.
She is a married woman, taking time will kill the relationship and usually its bull $hit.
You might need to tell her if she is done then you need to file!!! And if she is not commited the the relationship and thinks she is gonna run around with other men then you will file!

I hope this is just a dumb scare. but i have been watching for signs, you locked her down pretty good, so we need to watch. Now you need to get a var and double velcro in in her car to catch phone conversations, look for a burner phone in her car. DO NOT CONFRONT her yet with anything you find.
Get a gps to hidd in her car also unless you can track her phone, start check phone recorde on line for unknownuumbers, you may be able to get cpoies of text messaged from phone co we will talk more. Stand your ground on her going out alone!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

Depending how things go u may need to give her some rope to hang herself.
Now you must begin to slightly detach emotionally from her this will send a subtle message.
If she trys to use the MC against you, say this crosses the line, you might as well just tell me you are going out for coffie with the OM and that you expect me to be ok with it.
do not accept any argument that you aee being controlling. Tell her that no husband would accept this after the near miss with the other man. If she says i dont want to live the rest of my life with you throwing it in my face, tell her you have NO intension of doing that and you are shock and dissapointed that she so soon put you in a situation where you have to remind her how she damaged you marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

Btw for future reference, if there is an OM in the picture MC comes to a grinding halt.
She cannot work on repairing your marriage while forming a relationship with the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

I have been busy typing but i notice warlock is posting, listen to him, his advice is sound and he is more experienced in these things than I
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

Now that i see what warlock is saying, I may have overreacted so keep it under control Bay!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr

Bay your wife still does not want to take ownership. She's trying to live life as if she's not made any mistakes. That's not how it works. Her choice should be to "be married and act married" or "be single and act single". Part of acting married is her doing the heavy lifting when she's screwed up.

If you're wishy washy about this then you need to re-read what's been stated in this thread and try to understand the mindset behind it. NC is a simple rule that almost always applies and almost certainly applies to your wife. 

Remember you wake up with yourself every day and will for the rest of your life. It's important what you think about the guy you're waking up with. There's always things we look back on with remorse and would change if we could. Not holding her accountable will fall into this category if you don't do it. Learning from our mistakes is fine but avoiding them to begin with is better.


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## OldWolf57

BA, is she in security somehow ?? Otherwise I don't see why a gun range visit is needed for office workers, unless she works at a prison or jail. Even office staff at those places have to have some courses in gun handling.

I like what Warlock and Decorum said, but I think you can really stop obsessing about om. True you only have her word that is what HR said, but since everyone seem to be aware of the happenings, I would trust her on that.

I will say this. If it is NOT a requirement of her job to be there, she should not go considering the state your marriage is in at this time.

The "you are being to controling" may just be a setup, for just such situations like this. AND no, not for om. Other man may have seen her talking regularly with another team member, and just tried his pitch too. Do you see where I'm at. What do you think of the boss ?? Who arrange the events ?? Om may be the fall guy dude, since they ALL know he can be a lil flirty.

I'm not trying to add to your worries, but the sex thing is worrying. I would have expected some hystrical bonding sex, but not this. She was flirting with om, What do she think would happen if you found out
It makes me think she is rethinking being married.
She may be setting up a test to see if you would change by making sure you see the email, and not mention it. VAR the car BA before friday.
Truthfully, she may be rethinking being married dude. Om or no om.
None of us knows her mind, but cheaters follow a script. Thats why I wish you had not told her you would be checking. Well she knows you would anyway.

I say it rethinking, or some other om.


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## Decorum

Im taking deep breaths and trying to step back a bit. But I want to say this BAY,

If OldWolf is right about rethinking being married.

I would say to her, "Your hesitancy to give 100% to our marriage makes me uncertain about you, and about our success, this is not a healthy input into our relationship and if it continues it cant end well."


Please if I say somthing that is questionalable everyone is invited to call me on it, I really want what is best here and I dont bruise easily.


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## jnj express

You need to get over yourself---you cannot put your wife in a cell, and allow her no activities, she told you up front what she is doing, this is a sober activity, and no one will be hanging over her----find out when she expects to finish, and tell her you expect her home quickly after finishing.

Her AP, has been put on notice, to NOT talk to her---go with that, but remind her, she is stay away from her

You have to let her live, if you stifle her, even if she has strayed, she is trying to put it back together, give her a little leeway-----ask her where they are going to be, and tell her you may show up to watch her

Tread lightly, or what you have put together may come tumbling down.


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## Entropy3000

BayArea said:


> No things have changed.... my wife says she feels depressed and sad and needs some time to think about things... also, I noticed on her work emails that she is going to the gun range with her coworkers (ALL MALES) next Friday for a team event... I dont think it is right for her to be going to a gun range with a bunch of me... espcially since the OM is in this group too.... I havent said anything to her yet but I am boiling right now


Ummmm. She is depressed because she misses being available to the OM. She is pouting at the least. But mainly she wants the attention from him.

Why would they go to a gun range? Hey I am a gun owner. So this is a team building exercise? Screw that.

What is her job exactly? Why is she the only woman going?

Again as this keeps going on I think you should tell her you have had enough of this job.

Her saying she needs time to think about things. BAD. 

This is slipping away.


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## MattMatt

jnj express said:


> You need to get over yourself---you cannot put your wife in a cell, and allow her no activities, she told you up front what she is doing, this is a sober activity, and no one will be hanging over her----find out when she expects to finish, and tell her you expect her home quickly after finishing.
> 
> Her AP, has been put on notice, to NOT talk to her---go with that, but remind her, she is stay away from her
> 
> You have to let her live, if you stifle her, even if she has strayed, she is trying to put it back together, give her a little leeway-----ask her where they are going to be, and tell her you may show up to watch her
> 
> Tread lightly, or what you have put together may come tumbling down.


An event that is all male, with the AP and in an employer that is cheater-friendly. (How cheater-friendly? OM has done this before, perhaps this is the first time a BS has bothered to confront the company about his inappropriate behaviour?)

Also, Bay, whatever she said in the MC session? If she is still seeing the OM, then what she said (about your blame for things being baaaad) must be taken with a pinch of salt, or two. Because cheaters blameshift and re-invent history.


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## OldWolf57

JNJX, thats why I say it may be a test to see if he is true to his word about changing.
You are right in saying not to smothering her. I did that as a teen, and lost a girl.
But then again, SHE was flirting to a degree. And this is no time for tests. Its time to reassure her husband, to shore up her marriage.
Yes he WAS a controlling a**, especially with how he would set up situations to test her. That was very insecure.
And as I said, unless she is in security or support, a gun range seem kind of strange.

Of course management could be using this job place situation of an angry spouse to coming there with violent intent to train their ppl.

Like I say, we don't know her mind.
BA, sit tight and observe. Don't let the old you handle this like you once would. If she say she is going, just ask what time she thinks she will be home. 
This is a chance to show her you are making changes. BUT, monitor quietly.


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## OldWolf57

And no stopping for drinks after. DON'T ever start that crap. She is married, and its all males. No place for a married woman to socialize.


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## jnj express

Many workplaces have activities, and clubs---this could be a gun club, it could be a team competition from work---the OP hasn't told us---that is the problem here, he just said she was going---well what is the context of the gun event, we only get one side, here, so we don't really know both sides of the story.

Bottom line, they have counseled, have an agreement as to how to R., the OM, knows he will lose his job if they are in contact---

You cannot allow the wife to have no activities of her own---it may be an all male cept for her, club, but so what----the OP, needs to let this happen, and see what comes of it---if he is really worried, he can go and observe on his own-----


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## OldWolf57

If he show up he is showing he is not changing.
He don't know if she is going, he just saw the email. She has not spoken to him about it.

AND, my wife is NOT going to be in the old boys club. She is not the only woman there. Just the only one in this team.
There are thousands of jobs that don't have events to socialize, and they are still successful today. biz is biz an private is private.


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## walkonmars

Look, she's already on notice. So if she's going to cheat knowing this - then she's going to cheat and there's not much you can do about it. 

And if she does you will know soon enough in your gut if not in fact. As the saying goes "Trust but verify" and if it turns out for the worse, then you can walk away with your head held high.


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## BayArea

The event is like a team getaway for doing a great job... the gun range was planned before she started.... the point here is that she is on an all male team and the OM is on her team too... We went to our counselor today and he asked her if she thought about how I would feel if she went to this event with all these men... she said she didnt think it would bother me since its a work event... the MC asked her if she thought she should be able to make her own decisions and be allowed to have free time... She said that when she started that we did talk about it and I didnt like the idea but was ok with it then since it was like a work related team function... but of course this was before I found out about the flirting event....


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## the guy

BayArea said:


> ... she said she didnt think it would bother me since its a work event.......


Tell her your going to a strip club with the guys, and it won't matter since its a drinking thing with the boys.

I'm sure you see how jacked up her statement is?


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## jfv

OP, if you are controlling, I'm Joseph Stalin. Maybe her telling you too back off and give her space is a way to manipulate you into allowing her,(yes, I said allow) to go to that 'team event' as well as others. Btw, why does she need time to think about 'things'? What things? She's the one that screwed up. Do you know what she is referring to specifically? If not i would ask her to explain if i were you. That sounds like something that someone with one foot out the door would say. Hope I'm way off.


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## BayArea

She says she needs time aways to find herself and feel happy... we have had a rough relationship over the last 13 years... What I dont agree on is being apart to think over things.... I feel we should be together but give each other space.... as for the work event she now says she is not going to go and will tell her boss... what bothers me is that she thought it was ok to go in the first place with everything going on in our marriage.... sometimes it makes me wonder what in the h3ll goes through her mind.... does she really not think about what she is doing before she does it?? It just blows my Fin mind all the time...


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## MattMatt

BayArea said:


> The event is like a team getaway for doing a great job... the gun range was planned before she started.... the point here is that she is on an all male team and the OM is on her team too... We went to our counselor today and he asked her if she thought about how I would feel if she went to this event with all these men... she said she didnt think it would bother me since its a work event... the MC asked her if she thought she should be able to make her own decisions and be allowed to have free time... She said that when she started that we did talk about it and I didnt like the idea but was ok with it then since it was like a work related team function... but of course this was before I found out about the flirting event....


Now, let's see how this looks...

Reaction 1: "Wow! Bay's Wife and OM at the same social event on the same team? Tell OM to stay at home!"

Reaction 2: "Wow! Bay's Wife and OM at the same social event on the same team? We're cool with that!"

As I say, a cheater friendly workplace.


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## jfv

so.... perhaps she's rethinking marriage to you?


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## Thundarr

jnj express said:


> Many workplaces have activities, and clubs---this could be a gun club, it could be a team competition from work---the OP hasn't told us---that is the problem here, he just said she was going---well what is the context of the gun event, we only get one side, here, so we don't really know both sides of the story.
> 
> Bottom line, they have counseled, have an agreement as to how to R., the OM, knows he will lose his job if they are in contact---
> 
> You cannot allow the wife to have no activities of her own---it may be an all male cept for her, club, but so what----the OP, needs to let this happen, and see what comes of it---if he is really worried, he can go and observe on his own-----


OP, read the quoted comment If you want your wife to move on to someone else in the group besides to OM that's not on your radar, if you want to be a doormat, if you want to be the butt of jokes at her xmas dinner, if you want your wife to have no respect for you.

It's as if people think EA behavior does not require some heavy lifting and does not destroy trust in the partner who is in or approaching EA. Maybe it's my buzz talking but ... never mind. I've haven't been banned yet so I won't comment more on this passive crap.


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## OldWolf57

I still say om is a none issue here. I'm seeing this as more her getting tired of feeling like she is living with her father.

For those that don't know my views, I'm a burn da bi##ch if she cheating and not doing the heavy lifting to R.

But I just don't see it here. She shut the guy down when he went too far. Even went to HR and reported it. The guy is not stupid, he is on notice, and they NEVER got that far into an EA.

This is looking more and more about her getting tired of being smothered and tested.

I wonder what you would have done if it was your wife talking to the waiter about his life, with you sitting right there excluded. How would you have felt ??
Your tests and smothering has borned fruit man. So back off a lil.
The ppl at her job know you are for real. Don't start looking insecure to her now, when you said you was not going to be like you was.

You see, I paid a LOT of attention to your post talking about being an ass for a long time. In all that time she NEVER gave you any reason to doubt her. 
But now that she has flirted a lil, BUT SHUT his butt down, you are hurting. I can't really say she flirted. She would be working and he would send lil roses or sad faces. That was on him dude.

You know what?? I've had friends like you who wouldn't let their girl even go to the store by themselves. Guess what ?? The girls walked.

You have an HONORABLE woman, show some faith. 

I still can't believe you are obsessing over this guy.
What ??? you think he wants your wife so bad that he will lose his job and family over her ??? COMEONMAN !!!!!!!

Go read some of the threads here and see how BLESSED you are.


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## OldWolf57

It was rough because you was putting up lil road tests that she didn't know was test.
But no where did I see you post she had a past EA or PA.

Just you and your lil tests that she never saw, and you going off the handle when she didn't respond.
Thats no way to be in a marriage. YOU need IC for your issues man, before she walks.
I see a lot of enabling toward you from the posts, but no one but Decorum and JNJ has called you on it. YES she is getting tired of your ways. Its NOT even about another man now. YOU are on trial my man, and if you keep wallowing in anger and self pity you will lose this woman.

Look, I'm not saying this to be an ass, I want you and her to make it. But 13 years of your tests and bs is finally getting to her.

Hell, she has done all you asked. When do YOU start to change.


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## The bishop

She needs another job ASAP


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## Entropy3000

BayArea said:


> The event is like a team getaway for doing a great job... the gun range was planned before she started.... the point here is that she is on an all male team and the OM is on her team too... We went to our counselor today and he asked her if she thought about how I would feel if she went to this event with all these men... she said she didnt think it would bother me since its a work event... the MC asked her if she thought she should be able to make her own decisions and be allowed to have free time... She said that when she started that we did talk about it and I didnt like the idea but was ok with it then since it was like a work related team function... but of course this was before I found out about the flirting event....


What is FREE time? What does that mean? We can all say we need to have free time. If free time is compatible with the marriage then no big deal. But if free time means free from being married or free from having boundaries then that is another deal entirely.

I love these buzz words that get used in these situations. I mean really. Who could begrudge someone their own free time afterall?

Some jobs are very much social in nature. Well that is tough when your families contribution to an all male social club is donating your wife to it for socializing.

So what is her job again?

It is very common at my job for guys to go to strip clubs. Most of them drop some serious bucks there too on VIP rooms and such. This IS a social event from my workplace. But I am capable of making MY own choice and decisions and I choose not to play this game.


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## Entropy3000

MattMatt said:


> Now, let's see how this looks...
> 
> Reaction 1: "Wow! Bay's Wife and OM at the same social event on the same team? Tell OM to stay at home!"
> 
> Reaction 2: "Wow! Bay's Wife and OM at the same social event on the same team? We're cool with that!"
> 
> As I say, a cheater friendly workplace.


The company cannot do anything about this really. They cannot not invite her. They cannot not invite the OM.

What the company can do is split them up ... maybe. depends on the size and nature of the company.

Besides it is very likely they are all down with her having this relationship with the OM. Her husband is not one of them. If she is a good looking woman the men will take her under their wings and be there for her. Total speculation on my part. It is also possible that the men would stay clear for fear of being fired ... or attacked by a jealous husband. In general though they likely will bond with her. If she is teetering in her marriage they will help pull her away from her husband. Jusy my opinion.

Instigation, Isolation ... Escalation. Right now I see her using the job to become independent of her husband and to potentially move on.


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## Decorum

Back now. 
Bay I have read these post, there are good points in all of them.
I agree that the Om is a non issue for now, he is a non-threat at the moment. And look she is willing to tell her boss she is not going, that says alot, she is willing to put herself out there in front of her co-workers for you, that is somthing!

I think you are fighting for you marriage as OldWolf says, because of how you related to her in the past.

btw what does this mean "She says she needs time aways to find herself and feel happy" are you guys talking about living apart again, and what are you considering?

This whole time away thing is a real concern to me. Tell us more about those conversations.


Yes you need IC, IC, IC!

This wil strengthen her confidence in your reslove to change, Which is a nice side benefit.

Re: Her considering your feelings, I have been holding off giving you a document that floats around here designed to help the WS understand how to help the betrayed spouse, hoping you could show a little more reserve, but it will help her understand better. I will do it though.

Listen this statement you made "sometimes it makes me wonder what in the h3ll goes through her mind.... does she really not think about what she is doing before she does it?? It just blows my Fin mind all the time"

Maybe 13 years of marriage isnt enough to figure it out yet, but you just have to accept how a woman thinks. We all know exactly what you are trying to say here, but it really is your issue not hers.
She cant be blamed for being who she is, dont despise her!

Having said that, I still feel like your wife is a quality person, but she is caught between a rock and a hardhead!

I dont think that she has checked out of you marrage completely, but you better heed OldWolf's warning, because by the time a woman pulls the trigger on that, she has already emotionally accepted her decision. Then it is a real up hill climb!

There are a number of things that keep us in relationships, suffice it to say you have a few things going for you but when those restraints fall off one by one, thats when someone walks.

Everyone here is wanting the best for the two of you, please consider what has been said.
Take care!


----------



## Entropy3000

There is a time and place for all things under heaven.

This is not about burning a cheater folks. It is about trying to save a marriage. This has been a fiasco. I believe him backing off now sends the wrong message. 

I do think it is more likely she will find another guy beyond this OM.

I don't think we heard what she does for a living. It is not uncommon in my industry in IT for there to be a group of men and a woman in a group. team building is fine and dandy. But where I have seen this work best is when the spouse of the wife is part of the socializing. The wives too. When it has been a group of guys and a woman ... not good folks. Not for the marriage. Just what I have seen.

If she is already trying to find herself and be given space and flirting with OM then she is in the right place ... or so it seems anyway from the posts.

This week seems to be my wifes EA at work week. The thing is that this IS very common.


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## The bishop

Entropy3000 said:


> There is a time and place for all things under heaven.
> 
> This is not about burning a cheater folks. It is about trying to save a marriage. This has been a fiasco. I believe him backing off now sends the wrong message.
> 
> I do think it is more likely she will find another guy beyond this OM.
> 
> I don't think we heard what she does for a living. It is not uncommon in my indistry in IT for there to be a group of men and a woman in a group. team building is fine and dandy. But where I have seen this work best is when the spouse of the wife is part of the socializing. The wives too. When it has been a group of guys and a woman ... not good folks. Not for the marriage. Just what I have seen.


:iagree: it doesn't matter if your male or female, spending a bunch of time with coworkers outside of work without you SO is very very dangerous.


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## Decorum

Entropy,
Clarify what you mean by "Him backing off now". If you dont mind.
Thanks


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## Entropy3000

Decorum said:


> Entropy,
> Clarify what you mean by "Him backing off now". If you dont mind.
> Thanks


Some folks are telling him to not be her dad and to let her have her free time. She needs to change jobs. He will be in much better position to give her some free time when that free time is not with her OM.

I am saying that this job is toxic to their marriage. 

I do think there are other problems but they will not be able to address those under these circumstances.

He is is in an absolute no win scenario now.


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## Decorum

Thanks for explainig, when I read your post I missed that completely, these are good points. He is balancing the leverage from the confrontation with his need to improve himself, but I'm telling you what you already know. 

Thanks again.


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## BayArea

OldWolf57 said:


> I still say om is a none issue here. I'm seeing this as more her getting tired of feeling like she is living with her father.
> 
> For those that don't know my views, I'm a burn da bi##ch if she cheating and not doing the heavy lifting to R.
> 
> But I just don't see it here. She shut the guy down when he went too far. Even went to HR and reported it. The guy is not stupid, he is on notice, and they NEVER got that far into an EA.
> 
> This is looking more and more about her getting tired of being smothered and tested.
> 
> I wonder what you would have done if it was your wife talking to the waiter about his life, with you sitting right there excluded. How would you have felt ??
> Your tests and smothering has borned fruit man. So back off a lil.
> The ppl at her job know you are for real. Don't start looking insecure to her now, when you said you was not going to be like you was.
> 
> You see, I paid a LOT of attention to your post talking about being an ass for a long time. In all that time she NEVER gave you any reason to doubt her.
> But now that she has flirted a lil, BUT SHUT his butt down, you are hurting. I can't really say she flirted. She would be working and he would send lil roses or sad faces. That was on him dude.
> 
> You know what?? I've had friends like you who wouldn't let their girl even go to the store by themselves. Guess what ?? The girls walked.
> 
> You have an HONORABLE woman, show some faith.
> 
> I still can't believe you are obsessing over this guy.
> What ??? you think he wants your wife so bad that he will lose his job and family over her ??? COMEONMAN !!!!!!!
> 
> Go read some of the threads here and see how BLESSED you are.



She went to HR because i wanted her to do it.. she was against it because she didnt stop it fully. When is was asking her out she did say she doesnt go to bars or clubs.. when om asked what she does for fun she said family things.. she said she didnt want tk be a b**ch and be rude since she is new... my wife is a very passive person... She didnt shut the guy down completely and admited she liked the attention.... I was the one that found out and stopped the whole thing... She said if he would of tried to advance to going out that she would of stopped it with him and told him she didnt want that.... this gun range event is only for her team which is 5 guys and her one of them is the om as well.. she says she doesnt want to seem like theb oddball by not going and she thought i would be ok with it since they do have team lunches once a month... i am ok with the linch since they are going to discuss business from the month.. i do not like the idea of my wife at a gun range with a bunch of guys... also regading her asking for time apart it is because she is tired of arguing with me and me being an 1000 question person.. or mc said i need to wait till our sessions... it is going to be hard but i am going to do it...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr

My guess is this was an EA enough that she got the emotional rush from it. Now the rush is gone and she's going through withdraw and she's mad at OP because she wants the euphoria again and he's in the way. 

I think we've been focusing on the OM and whether he's a problem or not instead of focusing on OP's wife's behavior. I too believe she's prowling for a replacement and needs to get away from her environment. Signs are there anyway. Maybe the OM is not a problem but she works with other guys who all know that she's available-ish. It would be different if she seemed remorseful but she's mad at OP for holding her back.

Really the environment needs to change and let "time" help out. That's why NC is critical. Not just from OM but also from the environment as well. At least then she would know if she's happy in the marriage or not without having her judgment clouded.


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## BayArea

We did stay together last night and worked on some thing that counselor told us to do... things went well and she was happy.. she told me that what she wants is to feel safe and secured with me and be able to talk without me getting upset and blowing up... she says she is tired of that and wants to have a safe feeling.. I dont think she is prowling for someone new she is just expressing what she wants to feel.... her asking for time away was to see if I could calm down and her time to think... what I did today is I left the house very early to give her time to get ready without me around.. last night I gave her some space to have some her time... I am starting to focus on giving her space without me leaving...we agreed at counsleing last night that I can stay in the house with her and then I offered that if I blow up or start a fight I am to leave the house for 24 hours... I feel that my wife feels good with me when I am being good with her.... We both beleive our marriage can work we just both need to do heavy lifting to show each other... she made a comment at counseling last night that she understands what she did is wrong but she doesnt want to feel like she is in a bottle all the time... I have always watched everything she has done of course now it is in more detail... our counselor told me in private to allow her some space and stop being so controlling and I will start to notice her changes...


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## TRy

BayArea said:


> We did stay together last night and worked on some thing that counselor told us to do... things went well and she was happy.. she told me that what she wants is to feel safe and secured with me and be able to talk without me getting upset and blowing up... she says she is tired of that and wants to have a safe feeling.. I dont think she is prowling for someone new she is just expressing what she wants to feel.... her asking for time away was to see if I could calm down and her time to think... what I did today is I left the house very early to give her time to get ready without me around.. last night I gave her some space to have some her time... I am starting to focus on giving her space without me leaving...we agreed at counsleing last night that I can stay in the house with her and then I offered that if I blow up or start a fight I am to leave the house for 24 hours... I feel that my wife feels good with me when I am being good with her.... We both beleive our marriage can work we just both need to do heavy lifting to show each other... she made a comment at counseling last night that she understands what she did is wrong but she doesnt want to feel like she is in a bottle all the time... I have always watched everything she has done of course now it is in more detail... our counselor told me in private to allow her some space and stop being so controlling and I will start to notice her changes...


 You caught her in an Emotional Affair (EA) and put a stop to it. You get mad at her for cheating, want to put controls in place to prevent this from happening again and want her to answer questions about the affair, and in her mind that makes you the bad guy. Are you kidding me?

She is following the cheaters script, blame shifting, rewriting history, calling you controlling and wants to rug sweep this with no consequences at all to her. Not only have you let her get away with this, what is even more incredible is that if you are human and dare to even start a fight over this, she has you agreeing to leave the house for 24 hours. While you are gone, she can continue the EA if she decides to do so without you there to get in her way. Wow there are confluences for you not letting her rug sweep but none at all for her cheating. You are going down a dark path. She has just learned that she is in total control and that she can cheat on you at will with no consequences. If she does not continue with this affair, she will be open to the next one.

Get a different MC. One that has experience dealing with EAs. Tell her that you have thought about it and not only will you not leave the house if you start a fight over her cheating, but that you expect her to face up to how she has cheated and hurt you and that you expect her to help you heal by letting you ask all the questions that you want until you feel safe again. Tell her that she was the one that cheated and she needs to be the one that does the heavy lifting to make things better. If she is unwilling to be help responsible for her actions, she needs to be the one to leave the house.


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## turnera

BayArea said:


> she told me that what she wants is to feel safe and secured with me and be able to talk without me getting upset and blowing up... she says she is tired of that and wants to have a safe feeling..


Men, by nature, are more aggressive than women. Women, by nature and physical issues, are more passive and have a stronger need to feel safe. When a man shows aggression, of ANY sort, a woman starts to shut down; hide things; shut up; stop being your friend; protect herself.

Sounds like the #1 thing you need to be doing right now is learning how to validate her - show her that you CARE about her feelings, and that they are just as important as YOURS. This is sometimes hard for a guy to get. And the longer you go not doing this, the more she distances herself from you, the less she 'knows' herself (and WILL need to go off and find herself), and the less she wants you.

Have you read His Needs Her Needs? That's a good start. Read it together.


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## turnera

BayArea said:


> I have always watched everything she has done of course now it is in more detail


Can you describe this more closely?


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## BayArea

turnera said:


> Can you describe this more closely?


Like a hawk.... i watch and look at everything... we are reading the his needs her needs as well... we are meeting for lunch today to spend sometime... im going to make sure to make it a happy meetup...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

No, I mean you said "I have ALWAYS..."

DID you always watch her like a hawk?


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## BayArea

I did always check things just not like I do now... she also brought up that she has never had access to my stuff which I understand now was wrong...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The checking things is even worse.

You treated her like a subpar human. YOU had it right, YOU were right to keep tabs on her, but SHE wasn't equal to that with you? Something to work on in therapy.


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## Decorum

Im trying to not have so much face time on this thread, but wow Turnera, i have never heard the man/woman thing put like that, I now understand why my wife feels the way she does when I get "matter of fact" with her, we dont yell or blow up, but I get it now. This is why I hang around here. When i get to a computer later im liking this,
Thanks turnera!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

No problem!


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## turnera

I like to explain it like cats and dogs. Dogs will barge into a room and lick everyone who will let them. They'll jump all over the people, the furniture, the other animals...

Cats, being the smaller, weaker animal, will tiptoe into a room, keep an eye on everything, watch for dangers, and, if they feel safe enough, will slide up beside you and befriend you. But they will never stop being on the lookout for danger. 

Over the millennia, women have learned that they can't control much, being smaller, weaker, and not in power. So they watch, learn, never let their guard down, and get what they need through brain power (think a woman in a Muslim country). And when a man, who is like the dog (never even occurs to him to be watchful) does his thing and exerts influence, says what he thinks, pushes his agenda, and never thinks twice about it, does this to a woman, she retreats.

Which is fine, with other men. With women, however, each time she gets talked over, shut down in conversation, ignored, made fun of, told what to do, or dismissed, she keeps a running tab. And each time, each instance, she shuts down just a little bit more. Until she no longer trusts you to be her friend. And you're none the wiser.

I'm not saying it's the guy's fault. I'm saying both sides don't understand the other, and that's where it goes off rail.


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## Thundarr

I don't understand the comments on this thread at all. It looks like everyone thinks there's no reason for OP's wife to look for another job. She's only been at this job for a little over two months and *she admitted that her and this coworker had been flirting back and fourth and that they had an attraction to each other...* . Why would we not think NC from the co-worker is needed. Sure OP caught it before it went PA but she wasn't innocent here and she's being given a pass to some extent. 

Maybe I've missed something that makes her different from other WS. Maybe someone can explain this for me. I just usually don't see so much empathy for WS like this thread so what have I missed.


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## turnera

I never said she shouldn't quit. I just said be practical when you're considering how to achieve your goals.


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## jfv

I've been confused by this thread as well. I've had to keep re reading the posts to see if I've been missing something. Its wierd. I think this might be a result of only few voices dominating the thread and validating one another. Which is what happens in most threads come to think of it. I guess I just disagree with most of it.


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## jfv

Shouldn't they deal with what she did first??? The last thing someone who just got caught being untrustworthy should expect is trust and space. Not saying there might not be an issue overall but, how do you move forward with fixing the marriage without dealing with her behavior first? OP, did she ask for space to 'think about things' before this EA episode?


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## turnera

Because there are levels of cheaters. And reasons for cheating. IMO, hers is of the lower levels and indicative of other issues. She apparently stopped it right away, they are talking and seeking therapy, and they both acknowledge marriage issues. What benefit is there to just crush her for cheating, when they both want their marriage?


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## Machiavelli

Agree, JFV, Thundarr. The job has to go. The biological reasons have been explained at length. Otherwise, be upfront and OP can go from being a cuckold to being a wittol. If WW needs to be around the OM (at the job) for financial reasons to bring in income for the family, well...there is a way to do essentially the same thing for a greater hourly wage. Can the job.


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## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> Because there are levels of cheaters. And reasons for cheating. IMO, hers is of the lower levels and indicative of other issues. She apparently stopped it right away, they are talking and seeking therapy, and they both acknowledge marriage issues. What benefit is there to just crush her for cheating, when they both want their marriage?


I totlly agree. When my wife confronted my EA there was nothing crushing about it. You do not crush someone and then expect to reconsile and have a loving relationship. If she leaves the job because it is the right thing to do to save the marriage they will both be much better off. This life in between is ratcheting them downwards. It is destructive and certainly is preventing any healing.


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## jfv

I'm pretty sure no one suggested any crushing of any sort. It is more about avoiding the rug sweeping.


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## OldWolf57

I had to go back to your earlier posts BA. Forgot about the attraction thing. E3K makes a good point regarding the job from that point. 
Then again, Tunera is saying it better than I did of the underlaying damage you did with your tests. Thats he feeling of being in a bottle.
And now Mach is here to remind us of the chemical effects of an EA.

This is why I come here, and why this is such a valuable place to OPs.

Now I will TRY to address the posters that are wondering.

We here have advised on some REALLY sick stuff done to OPs on here and from my point of view I see her as a very low level cheater.
Especially IF you can read into a lil of what Op was doing the whole marriage. He KNOWS this is the first time she has EVER done anything remotely like this. HOW ?? Bc he watched like a hawk and ran lil tests. He NEVER said he had reasons. But would get angry and start arguments if she didn't respond the way she should in his view.
Here he was in a restaurant with her, and he is having a personal conversation with the waitress. TOTALLY DISSING his wife. If she had done this, he would have blown a gasget. that would have surely failed one of his lil tests.

Sure his wife was wrong, but I have come to a place where I try to be more open in my thinking.
Peeps, I have been sactioned here by the mods for getting on OPs for not manning up. In fact I wish I could shakeup this guy USER on his thread. But I just don't see this woman as ah cheating s**t.

And thanks Mach, looking at that, the job must go. Not bc om is a threat, but for the chemical charge it gives her to see him. Knowing he wanted her. Which if you think about it. Attractive women should feel that way of just about every man they meet.


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## Entropy3000

I suggest that what he is trying to do is pull her back from a bad situation. I hope. If she was a cheating slvt I would say get a lawyer, do a 180 and move on.
So I am hoping as a loving husband he can save his wife from making some poor choices as she is in a very vulnerable emotional state.

So he should be firm in a tough love kinda way. He should fight for his marriage. He should not in anyway be abusive or diminish her self worth.


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## jnj express

I'm sure most of you who read my posts, know I am pretty hardcore about cheaters---but you also gotta respond to threads based on what is really the story

This woman got into a moderate flirting, answering EA, when called on it, she cut it immediately, did what her H., requested in going to HR---got the OM, put on notice---and has been into R---she is asking for thinking time, and based on Bay Area's mind games she probably deserves it---maybe she just doesn't want anymore of his stifling lifestyle in re: herself.

What the he*l, else do you people want from her---Her H., admits he has been playing nasty mind games with her for a long time, and tho she should not have gotten into the EA---she also doesn't deserve the sh*t you guys are throwing at her either

She more than likely earned that little gun event, for hard work, so it was a reward---and just cuz there are 5 other guys there, that doesn't mean they are all gonna jump her bones, in this case I don't know about her giving up her job either----OM, is there, but he is on notice, and wife has shut him down---NOT EVERY SITUATION IS THE SAME AS WHAT MOST OF YOU ON THIS WEBSITE HAVE BEEN PUT THROUGH AND INTO, nothing is cut and dry/cookie cutter.

If Bay Area doesn't be careful---he just may lose his wife---cuz he is putting her in a box, and he has played his mind games on her for way to long-------this woman needs some space, and she needs to be treated as an equal

He has taken away from her a reward that she earned---so what is HE gonna do to replace it---and don't tell me he doesn't have to do anything, cuz she is a cheater and deserves her fate---cuz with that attitude, he will be w/out a cheater and a wife!!!!!---Him going into a rage, cuz she wanted to be part of something she earned---is exactly why HE IS HERE IN THE 1ST PLACE.


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## Entropy3000

She has been in the job for two months and has already been in some kind of inappropriate activity with another man. Give me a break. This has already gone to HR supposedly. Not a very good start. She should be begging for a fresh start somewhere else.


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## Decorum

Interesting discussion.


----------



## Thundarr

Entropy3000 said:


> She has been in the job for two months and has already been in some kind of inappropriate activity with another man. Give me a break. This has already gone to HR supposedly. Not a very good start. She should be begging for a fresh start somewhere else.


On one side are the "no compromise NC, etc" guys (like me). On the other side are the "wait a second he's controlling and testing guys" (okay I believe you). Well two wrongs don't make a right so I have a solution. *She changes jobs and he stops being controlling. They are in MC so neither of those should be difficult.*

Now if she's thinking married life is not a bed of roses (unhappy with hubby) then *she's still vulnerable* and still being at the work place is even more dangerous to the marriage.

Changing jobs is not the end of the world or the end of a marriage. Not trying to do the smart thing may end the marriage though. Since some good things have already happened (HR, exposure), she has time to land another job before quitting. But not wanting to change jobs is risky.


----------



## Entropy3000

:iagree:

Exactly right. The couple needs a fresh start.


----------



## The bishop

He won't be able to totally commit to changing his bad behaviors towards her as long as he knows that she has to see the OM everyday. Nor will she. Change jobs and then start working on changing behaviors.


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## jfv

I still wonder if the request for space and thinking about things is a result of the EA or as the OP says a result of his reaction to the EA. I'm not really buying that version. Maybe she got a taste of what she could get out there as a single woman and now she is having second thoughts about being a married one.


----------



## turnera

jfv said:


> I still wonder if the request for space and thinking about things is a result of the EA or as the OP says a result of his reaction to the EA. I'm not really buying that version. Maybe she got a taste of what she could get out there as a single woman and now she is having second thoughts about being a married one.


 That's very common. It's where the 'walkaway wife' syndrome comes from - a woman dives right into marriage and family, it's what she's been waiting for her whole childhood. And then realizes the husband isn't the white knight she was expecting. And after awhile, she starts thinking, why am I throwing away my life for a dream life that he's not even participating in?


----------



## jfv

Although whenever I've read about WW syndrome it has never been in the context of an affair of any kind. This is what I am wondering. Is it a coincidence that the 'walk away' part is happening AFTER this EA episode? Was it gonna happen regardless of the EA. I would find it hard to believe that the two are not connected. If they are in fact connected, then the WW would have to stand for Wayward Wife.


----------



## turnera

Given the low level of the EA, I don't think it did anything more than give her the opportunity to see greener grass. She isn't in love with OM or anything. I think it just got her thinking. And that's basically what WAWs are doing - thinking about a different life.

Note that I'm NOT defending the affair. I just think the affair sped up what may have happened 10 or 20 years down the road.

At any rate, they have a good chance of using this as an eye opener to create a much better marriage.


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## Decorum

Hey Thundarr you "no compromiseNC Dude" and all concerned.
BAY and I have been pm-ing a bit about some spiritual things we have in common, not trying to take this offline,( hope no one thinks that), and Bay said somthings that I thought wouild be helpful to know so I asked him if I could post them and he said sure.

Bay and wife are definitely looking into other employment, wife is very wiling to follow husbands lead here. Also she is happy with husbands working on temper and feels like she can come out of her shell open up more to him if he does. ."

I really think this is what Turnera was hitting on with her post on the nature of a woman but I'm gonna post some thoughts in a separate post so there will be no confusion between our posts.


----------



## Thundarr

Decorum said:


> Hey Thundarr you "no compromiseNC Dude" and all concerned.
> BAY and I have been pm-ing a bit about some spiritual things we have in common, not trying to take this offline,( hope no one thinks that), and Bay said somthings that I thought wouild be helpful to know so I asked him if I could post them and he said sure.
> 
> Bay and wife are definitely looking into other employment, wife is very wiling to follow husbands lead here. Also she is happy with husbands working on temper and feels like she can come out of her shell open up more to him if he does. ."
> 
> I really think this is what Turnera was hitting on with her post on the nature of a woman but I'm gonna post some thoughts in a separate post so there will be no confusion between our posts.


Thank you for posting this info Decorum. It's encouraging to know. I think Bay did well to find TAM and to have guys like you connecting and advising. Also MC may be helping. He really has done a lot of things right and R seems very realistic. 

I'm glad other employment is at least on the table. When I say no compromise on NC, it's because in my humble opinion, it provides the best chance for R for Bay and his wife. I feel like we don't always give human nature and instinct enough respect and sometimes it bites us because we try to apply logic to something that's not very logical.

Anyway thanks for the update.


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## Decorum

Relationships and events on TAM often seem to be one step froward two back, but I hope for the best in the long run.

BTW this was well before the Walk Away Spouce topic which seems to me to be a walk away conversation (Hurmor, , yes always is some intent at truth in humor, I admit)

Anyway I really dont think that Bays wife was crushing on this dude, it was an attention high yes but on the same level as the one Bay experienced as he was chating up that cute waitress infront of his wife.

They are both more enlightened now,

I think Bays wife is basically a really good woman, vulnerable yes but not prone to cheat. My opinion.

I do think what you do here TAM is unique, If I had a loved one (today) who was a BS I would send them here, and tell them to take the regular actions recomended here, you know what I mean.

I'd say if the suggestions seem extreme you werent listening they are radical but effective, not trying to suck up here, it is what it is.

That said I felt early on that the standard script would have been disastrous for them (in this case he seemed to need to balance his leverage from his confrontation with self improvment), if not for the flirting (which she refused to escalate, and thankfully her husband steped in and protected her from) this could have been posted in a marriage thread.

Frankly I still stand by that, but I am "all in" for most cases.


When a bs comes here cluless, passive, and uninformed they are in good hands-(Respect)

Ok Im removing three lines here that sounded like whining- My apologies

Thanks all
Take Care!


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## Decorum

Thanks Thundarr, very kind of you.
There is no doubt in my mind you want the best for a BS and even a remorseful WS
BTW my post above was before I read yours above, FYI

Thanks again!


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## Decorum

Oh yea
About MC, they are getting great support, MC is available on call to diffuse a situation, and holds both sets of feet to the fire!, and parents are good people with their heads on straight.

Thundarr, I get it about the NC- it would bug me non-stop, but I stop short of recomending Bays wife to quit, I just leave it up to them to decide, if it were a full EA no doubt, it pisses me off when a wife refuses to leave in that situation. I dont look down on someone who recoments for Bays wife to quit, but i guess I just havent earned my bars there yet, I'm not sure why maybe I'm chicken!

but that is one of the strengths here, someone will put it out there!


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## BayArea

Decorum said:


> Oh yea
> About MC, they are getting great support, MC is available on call to diffuse a situation, and holds both sets of feet to the fire!, and parents are good people with their heads on straight.
> 
> Thundarr, I get it about the NC- it would bug me non-stop, but I stop short of recomending Bays wife to quit, I just leave it up to them to decide, if it were a full EA no doubt, it pisses me off when a wife refuses to leave in that situation. I dont look down on someone who recoments for Bays wife to quit, but i guess I just havent earned my bars there yet, I'm not sure why maybe I'm chicken!
> 
> but that is one of the strengths here, someone will put it out there!


Thank you for the feedback.... we are doing better now and i have been calm for the last few days... my wife was talking to me and told me her reason for wanting me to leave was because of my temper and constant arguing about the incident... she says that since i have been calm we have been able to talk calmy she has felt better and does want to be around me... i now beleive she didnt want me away for any other reason but this... we have been doing great and i have had some instances were i feel upset and when indo i call our mc to help defuses the situation.... all in all things are going well... my wife and i are making plans for her to leave her job and she has decided not to go to the gun range to recpect my feelings...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

And that, folks, is how a marriage is supposed to work. I respect you and meet your needs and don't Love Bust you. And you respect me and meet my needs and don't Love Bust me. And the more you do it, the more connected you feel, the more on the same team you are, and the happier you get, and the more you affair-proof the marriage. (quick synopsis of His Needs Her Needs)


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## Thundarr

BayArea said:


> my wife and i are making plans for her to leave her job and she has decided not to go to the gun range to recpect my feelings...


That's good news Bay. It's a good sign that respect for your feelings is enough for her to not go even if she thinks there's nothing wrong with it.


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## BayArea

Thundarr said:


> That's good news Bay. It's a good sign that respect for your feelings is enough for her to not go even if she thinks there's nothing wrong with it.


So my wife and i are talking about this gun range And what would she say to her boss on monday... she does still want to go in a way and so i siad look i dont really like u doing any outings with this guy but if u really want to go i would make a compromise if they take another woman with the group... i told her that i still didnt like the idea of her going but since i know she wants to go i would compromise... it pi$$es me off that she even wants to go to this outing... for pete sake i can take her to the Fin gun range for the day....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr

BayArea said:


> So my wife and i are talking about this gun range And what would she say to her boss on monday... she does still want to go in a way and so i siad look i dont really like u doing any outings with this guy but if u really want to go i would make a compromise if they take another woman with the group... i told her that i still didnt like the idea of her going but since i know she wants to go i would compromise... it pi$$es me off that she even wants to go to this outing... for pete sake i can take her to the Fin gun range for the day....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea it would pi$$ me off too. She acts as if nothing has happened just because it didn't go full PA. I'd keep a list in my head of all of the guys going to the range. One of them is the guy to watch out for and not necessarily the one she was texting, etc before.

Good luck. Stay as firm as you can.


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## Decorum

Are you going to Var the car?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Hang on! First she says she wont go, then plays her face, and says she is going?

Hmmm. Here's an idea, Bay. Can you go to the gun range as a private customer at the same time as their group?


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## Malaise

MattMatt said:


> Hang on! First she says she wont go, then plays her face, and says she is going?
> 
> Hmmm. Here's an idea, Bay. Can you go to the gun range as a private customer at the same time as their group?


Might not be a good idea Matt.

Loaded gun plus irate husband = bad

PS I'm a long time shooter/gun owner , this is not prejuidice but common sense


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## MattMatt

Malaise said:


> Might not be a good idea Matt.
> 
> Loaded gun plus irate husband = bad
> 
> PS I'm a long time shooter/gun owner , this is not prejuidice but common sense


Oh, but he doesn't have to have a gun, does he? Just go to have a look round, see if he wants to join. What could that do? Apart from interfering with any potential play by the OM that is...


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## Malaise

MattMatt said:


> Oh, but he doesn't have to have a gun, does he? Just go to have a look round, see if he wants to join. What could that do? Apart from interfering with any potential play by the OM that is...


True he doesn't have to rent a gun but a business will not, usually, let someone hang around without buying.

Also, OM will be armed. 

And OP has a temper.


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## MattMatt

Malaise said:


> True he doesn't have to rent a gun but a business will not, usually, let someone hang around without buying.
> 
> Also, OM will be armed.
> 
> And OP has a temper.


Hmm. Most businesses allow people to take a look to see if they will enjoy it. 

But even so, I take your point.

Under the circumstances I think the employer should have scotched this idea of the event at the gun range. Unless they really want to give the impression of being cheater friendly?


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## Decorum

Mattmatt, "hang on"
Do you mean in addition to whatever else he does (like perhaps what your suggestion is) that he should not var the car?
Thx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BayArea

Decorum said:


> Mattmatt, "hang on"
> Do you mean in addition to whatever else he does (like perhaps what your suggestion is) that he should not var the car?
> Thx
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let me clarify.... we talked about what if her boss was to say he would invite women to go to the event... i brought it up... i dont want to make her seem like a little girl with a contrling husband... she is telling her boss her decision to not go monday but i agreed that if he made it coed i would let it fly... i do have to trust her at some point anyway... she is still going to be leaving the job but in the meantime she needs to keep things straight... she did end the conversation that if i dont want her to go at all that all i need to do is say so... i really doubt anythig would happen at the range her boss knows what is going on and so does the vp that will he attending...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I have to say that this would be a great place for you to compromise. It affects her career. No one is going to grab someone and drag them to a corner and screw them there. If she's moving on, going will not put a black mark on her career, and you're monitoring to see nothing else happens. This is a place for you BOTH to show each other that you will move forward as a team. Make sure she comes straight home. You're fine.


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## BayArea

turnera said:


> I have to say that this would be a great place for you to compromise. It affects her career. No one is going to grab someone and drag them to a corner and screw them there. If she's moving on, going will not put a black mark on her career, and you're monitoring to see nothing else happens. This is a place for you BOTH to show each other that you will move forward as a team. Make sure she comes straight home. You're fine.


So does my compromise seem fair?? I would feel ok with her going if other women go... but if it is all guys and her only then no... either way the om will be with them... i think this is fair...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

COMEONMAN !!! om is not is not a threat to this marriage.
He was written up at work by the boss. His wife was put on notice. BA stepped to the plate like a Big Dog st the job.

Do anyone here think this guy will ruin his career and marriage for BA wife.
Stop winding the guy up.


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## OldWolf57

MAN she has only been there 2 months. Do you really think these ppl are so in need of her skills that they will let her direct how they run their company. 
Don't worry about her leaving her job. They going to fire her for all the disruption. Well they will probably ask her to resign.

There problem solved. No enraged hubbie coming by starting sh*t, a trouble making wife gone, and they still retain a skilled flirty employee.


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## OldWolf57

Everyone happy.

Now what about her next job BA ??
Will there be men there ??
Will you be running your lil tests ??


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## Decorum

Sorry I misunderstood,
I think making her go to her boss and asking that other woman go, is not a good idea, it is only going to make her look like an ODD DUCK, and if I take OldWolf meaning, its an unwelcome meddling in their (bosses) business. If you are going to let her go than just let her go.
My opinion.


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## BayArea

Decorum said:


> Sorry I misunderstood,
> I think making her go to her boss and asking that other woman go, is not a good idea, it is only going to make her look like an ODD DUCK, and if I take OldWolf meaning, its an unwelcome meddling in their (bosses) business. If you are going to let her go than just let her go.
> My opinion.



She isnt going to ask for other women to go the topic was if HE offers to bring other women... she is just going to tell her boss that due the situation she doesnt feel that she should go
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Decorum said:


> Mattmatt, "hang on"
> Do you mean in addition to whatever else he does (like perhaps what your suggestion is) that he should not var the car?
> Thx
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think he should VAR the car and carry one himself to record conversations.


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## Decorum

p.s. in this case maybe dont var the car

Bay, I never thought to ask what is the level of knowledge of her situation among her co-workers? Is your statement above the extent of the knowledge?


Also I want to address what Thundarr said because I think it valid, somthing to just keep in mind.

Thundarr has said “She acts as if nothing has happened just because it didn't go full PA”.

This because the continuation of the marriage itself was not central to the original confrontation. That is still an option, especially if there is some kind of break or violation with NC. In fact anytime you want you can go to her (if its true) and say, “I didn’t realize how much my trust in you would be eroded by your flirting, I’m not sure we can continue on, unless you come to terms with that and give me some reasons by you supportive actions that my trust in you can be repaired I believe we will not make it.

You have clearly shown that you are willing to own your 50% of any marriage problems and that you will take actions to repair the relationship, in this I think you are in a much stronger position now.
Not saying it called for here just wanted to put it out there if its ever applicable.

It might help her to understand some of you feelings if at some point you go through that betrayed spouces guide I sent.

But be honest about you experience it is not a tool to control but to heal!!!!!
Take cars.


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## Decorum

MatMat I posted over you sorry was hoping to hear from you.
thx


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## BayArea

Decorum said:


> MatMat I posted over you sorry was hoping to hear from you.
> thx


Yes only her boss and hr know about the situation... no one else...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

that would be a nice offer on his part, and it would be your and her call but not unreasonable thing to do I think


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## Decorum

Cant take time to even post now but i dont knowv what diff a few other woman makes this sounds more like your issue i check back later
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

DEC. he was at the job arguing with her during the separation. Her boss send her home early. He spoke to the boss when this 1st went down.
This is a lot of drama for a NEW HIRE to be bring to a job.
Especially when there are plenty of folks looking for good jobs with less drama.

This is his issue. BA you are looking more and more insecure. 
I just can't see how you can really believe the man would throw his career and marriage away for your wife.

It is starting to look more and more like codepend.


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## Jonesey

OldWolf57 said:


> DEC. he was at the job arguing with her during the separation. Her boss send her home early. He spoke to the boss when this 1st went down.
> This is a lot of drama for a NEW HIRE to be bring to a job.
> Especially when there are plenty of folks looking for good jobs with less drama.
> 
> This is his issue. BA you are looking more and more insecure.
> *I just can't see how you can really believe the man would throw his career and marriage away for your wife.
> *
> 
> I completely understand where you are saying..And i would like to 100% agree.But being on a forum like this way to long.
> Has made me see really worped things happen. So im not so sure..
> 
> *It is starting to look more and more like codepend.*
> Perhaps you are right..But she is the one that keep´s fueling
> this issue.First she won't go,she wants to respects his feelings.
> Good.Then changes her mind and start´s to arguing why she should go..You know some times it could be a good idea to lay low for a while,right or wrong.And especially with all there problems they have been having even before this..
> 
> I mean in the end ,its not like she has to be there.Because she is essential ,and key person to close a 40 million sales deal..


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## Decorum

OldWolf, 
Insecurity is the correct word. (not bashing you Bay)
I'm not sure it's even the OM he is worried about, (I would like you to be honest with yourself and us here Bay)

Are you concerned that the OM will put the moves on your wife in front of the boss?

Are you concerned that seeing the OM in a social setting will ingnite some interest on your wifes part for him?

Would you dislike the situation even if the OM was not there?

Bay, I say be honest not because I doubt you but because sometimes we really dont know our own heart, I will accept what you say, I think you know that.

It may be one or several of the above, or a different one but, just quiet yourself ask that question and see what light shines in. Write it all down.

But the answer to that question could be the start of a path that would be enlightening to you.

The outward manifestation is that you have a strong need to know, question is why so strong? Many husbands would love to have the oversight of your wives activities you have.

Yet you have no peace, and you cannot trust that if somthing is going on, you will catch it, and this predates her flirting, is that not true?

For the people here to help they need as much info as possible.
BTW- nothing in this post is of a confidence (held) between Bay and I, I'm just making observations.

Bay if I'm incorrect in somthing let us know, we really do care, and the truth is DA BOSS.

Take care


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## Decorum

"But the answer to that question could be the start of a path that would be enlightening to you."

BTW I mean a path that may lead to your setting boundaries, on some of your runaway thoughts.

Jonesey- Thanks for being honest, I really feel the same , it soo easy to get jaded.

I think its a law of TAM that everything has to go down the toliet the day immediately follwoing ANY good news.

My stomach tightens up and I think God what have I done.

I wil have to re-register as "Persona non grata " LOL


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## turnera

Jonesy, when you copy a quote, make sure you include the end quote. Looks like this:

[/quote]


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## turnera

BayArea said:


> So does my compromise seem fair?? I would feel ok with her going if other women go... but if it is all guys and her only then no... either way the om will be with them... i think this is fair...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Normally, I would say this would work. In this instance, I think you should just back off, given past issues, and say go, just come straight home - no going for drinks afterwards. She can come up with legitimate reasons for that, and she is moving on anyway; she won't be doing anything untoward.


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## Jonesey

turnera said:


> Jonesy, when you copy a quote, make sure you include the end quote. Looks like this:


[/QUOTE]

Sorry i missed that


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## BayArea

Decorum said:


> OldWolf,
> Insecurity is the correct word. (not bashing you Bay)
> I'm not sure it's even the OM he is worried about, (I would like you to be honest with yourself and us here Bay)
> 
> Are you concerned that the OM will put the moves on your wife in front of the boss?
> 
> Are you concerned that seeing the OM in a social setting will ingnite some interest on your wifes part for him?
> 
> Would you dislike the situation even if the OM was not there?
> 
> Bay, I say be honest not because I doubt you but because sometimes we really dont know our own heart, I will accept what you say, I think you know that.
> 
> It may be one or several of the above, or a different one but, just quiet yourself ask that question and see what light shines in. Write it all down.
> 
> But the answer to that question could be the start of a path that would be enlightening to you.
> 
> The outward manifestation is that you have a strong need to know, question is why so strong? Many husbands would love to have the oversight of your wives activities you have.
> 
> Yet you have no peace, and you cannot trust that if somthing is going on, you will catch it, and this predates her flirting, is that not true?
> 
> For the people here to help they need as much info as possible.
> BTW- nothing in this post is of a confidence (held) between Bay and I, I'm just making observations.
> 
> Bay if I'm incorrect in somthing let us know, we really do care, and the truth is DA BOSS.
> 
> Take care


I am insecure with the situation with the guy being their and know that the guy is not going to jump her bones while in this seeting.. As I think about it is insecurity as well as I wonder if my and the OM would possibly start to maybe feel comfortable to start talking again and think that this is water under the bridge.... My thinking is that if we can avoid situations of concern then we can make it better.... I also dont feel at this time that it is right for my wife to be out with 6 men at a gun range expecially with the guy we had the issue with....


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## turnera

Then make that your hill to die on.


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## Decorum

Thanks, thats very clear. It is both the fact that the om is there and that it is an all male event except for your wife. In thaf case Im with Turnera dont feel bad about asking (telling) her not to go. Now I get why other woman there would make a difference it would eliminate one of the two and you would "stomach" the other.

I understand that people want to get past uncomfortable things, (water under bridge), but I think your wife should know how you feel, that you would see her smoothing this over with om as a personal betrayal, 
The discomfort is there for a reason, if he acts to remove it she should maintain her distance in every way.
Im sorry for the discomfort this causes you brother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BayArea

Decorum said:


> Thanks, thats very clear. It is both the fact that the om is there and that it is an all male event except for your wife. In thaf case Im with Turnera dont feel bad about asking (telling) her not to go. Now I get why other woman there would make a difference it would eliminate one of the two and you would "stomach" the other.
> 
> I understand that people want to get past uncomfortable things, (water under bridge), but I think your wife should know how you feel, that you would see her smoothing this over with om as a personal betrayal,
> The discomfort is there for a reason, if he acts to remove it she should maintain her distance in every way.
> Im sorry for the discomfort this causes you brother.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So My wife did tell me last night that she understands why I am feeling the way I do... She said that although she wants to keep her job because she likes it, she knows that I wont be able to get over this situation and that she is going to start looking for something new... the part that was upsetting me this weekend is that sometimes I want her to make the decision of what to do in regards to the situation... when we were talking about the gun range incident and I said that if women went I would compromise on it... I expected her to know in her mind that she shouldnt go since it bothers me.... Our MC told us both that we shouldnt do things that makes the other person unconfortable.. so to me when she accepted the compromise it seemed to me like she was still had a desire to go... In the end I get confused because on one end she says she wants to make her own decisions but then she tells me that she wants me to make it black and white.. she says that if I dont want her to go at all to just say it and dont make compromises... but part of me wants to tell her how I feel and let her make the choice... in my mind if someone knows that something will not make you feel comfortable they should have the knowledge or understanding to not do it on their own... Just my Thoughts...


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## TRy

BayArea said:


> when we were talking about the gun range incident and I said that if women went I would compromise on it... I expected her to know in her mind that she shouldnt go since it bothers me.


 Stop asking her to read your mind. Start being truthful and tell her what you mean. You are probably in this mess in the first place because of all of the mixed signals that you send her.


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## BayArea

TRy said:


> Stop asking her to read your mind. Start being truthful and tell her what you mean. You are probably in this mess in the first place because of all of the mixed signals that you send her.


Got It.... I realize that... it seems like she cant decide what to do on her own and really wants me to tell her what I think she should do... it confuses me sometimes because she says she wants to make her own decisions but then looks to me for the answer....


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## bfree

BA,

Women look for men to take the lead. She wants you to lead her. Like TRy said, tell her what you want/need. No ambiguity, no indecision. You already stated that this bothers you and yet you are willing to compromise. This may be coming off as you being wishy washy to her. Take a stand and set the tone.


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## BayArea

My wife just sent me a text saying that she told her boss she is not going to the Gun Range... This lifted a load of bricks from my shoulders and made me feel better...


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## Decorum

Good!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cdelta02

Good news


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## tom67

Did you move back in?


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## IAlsoReadThisForum

DH1971 said:


> Sounds like she's downplaying the EA. I'm not so sure it hasnt turned int a PA.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does downplaying an EA is an indication of a PA?


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## tom67

I think she has had enough "space" tell her you're coming home asap.


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## BayArea

tom67 said:


> Did you move back in?


I never left... when we went to MC we spoke about it and her reasons for wanting me to leave was because I was constantly blowing up and arguing with her at home... some of the fights did get intense... I made a promise that I would control my anger and that if I did blow up I would leave the house for 24 hours... I havent lost my temper since then and she feels a lot better...


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## tom67

Good news that is progress.


----------



## TRy

BayArea said:


> I never left... when we went to MC we spoke about it and her reasons for wanting me to leave was because I was constantly blowing up and arguing with her at home... some of the fights did get intense... I made a promise that I would control my anger and that if I did blow up I would leave the house for 24 hours... I havent lost my temper since then and she feels a lot better...


 You should never have an automatic trigger that allows her to control what you do. You may have a right to get angry such as if you see her acting inappropriately with another man. Under this rule, you would be required to leave the house right when you should not be leaving the house. Tell her that you no longer will be bound by this rule.


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## tom67

Respect is a 2 way street.


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## BayArea

I dont think the agreement was wrong it was my idea to make sure I control my temper... I know I dont want to leave the house and I know she doesnt want to put up with my temper... the best way I know for sure that I would control my anger is to put something on the line that I know I didnt want to lose... such as leaving my house... 

She doesnt try to get me upset or anything... I normally am the one that would start the argument and then blow up... so for now when things get heated a bit... I step outside for a walk and come back inside and tell my wife I love her... and she tells me she loves me too... 

Today was a bit of an off day.. I can sense from her that she is starting to open up but she does still seem a bit disconnected at times from me... not sure what to do about this except keep trying to work on things and make them better.


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## OldWolf57

BA, you are not forgotten, I hope all is well and you two are doing much better.


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## BayArea

Oldwolf.. thanks for checking on me... I was planning on following up here later this week.. my wife and I have continued our counseling... she has quit her job... and our relationship has been getting better.. we have identified what took us to down this path and we have both vowed to never let our relationship go this way again... we still have some low points but the good points are starting to out way the bad.. I have changed my ways dramatically and I have started to become the husband I should be... I make sure to pay close attention to her needs and as a result I have started to see her open up with me again. Slowly but surely I beleive we will make it.. I thank you and everyone else for taking the time to counsel me on this site... I am also greatful in a way that what happened did happen because had it not our relationship we of just gotten Worse and would of just ended for divorce... tonight is our counseling session and we were asking each other what are we going to talk about since things have gotten better... 

Thats all for now and thank you again old wolf for checking on me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

BayArea said:


> Oldwolf.. thanks for checking on me... I was planning on following up here later this week.. my wife and I have continued our counseling... she has quit her job... and our relationship has been getting better.. we have identified what took us to down this path and we have both vowed to never let our relationship go this way again... we still have some low points but the good points are starting to out way the bad.. I have changed my ways dramatically and I have started to become the husband I should be... I make sure to pay close attention to her needs and as a result I have started to see her open up with me again. Slowly but surely I beleive we will make it.. I thank you and everyone else for taking the time to counsel me on this site... I am also greatful in a way that what happened did happen because had it not our relationship we of just gotten Worse and would of just ended for divorce... tonight is our counseling session and we were asking each other what are we going to talk about since things have gotten better...
> 
> Thats all for now and thank you again old wolf for checking on me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Success stories are always good to hear. Check in every now and then and help someone else out in another thread and keep us updated thanks.


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## Decorum

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BayArea

tom67 said:


> Success stories are always good to hear. Check in every now and then and help someone else out in another thread and keep us updated thanks.


I will still be around and will provide support when needed... It is still a slow process for me to totally recover and I am again grateful to everyone on this site....


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## MattMatt

BayArea said:


> I will still be around and will provide support when needed... It is still a slow process for me to totally recover and I am again grateful to everyone on this site....


My best wishes to the both of you! :smthumbup:


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## OldWolf57

Anyting worth having is worth fight tooth and nail for man.
I was a lil hard on you, but I really felt she was worth the fight, that with work on yourself, you could and would build a stronger marriage.
She loves you so much man !!! Treasure this woman.
And God Bless this Union !!!


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## turnera

Are you spending 15 hours a week together in non work/household/kids stuff? Vital for reconnecting.


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## BayArea

turnera said:


> Are you spending 15 hours a week together in non work/household/kids stuff? Vital for reconnecting.


Yes we spend time at night when our daughter goes to bed at around 8 until we go to bed at around 11.. then we also signed up for a salsa dance class we attend on fridays and we spend time on the weekend when our daughter goes to her grandparents house.. since my wife isnt working now we meetup for lunch as well...

We have spent a lot more time with each now to get closer... we actually hold each other when we go to bed at night, which we haven't done in a very long time...

Old Wolf... you and Decorum were both right and I understand the tough love you gave... I needed to do some work on myself to get this marriage on the right course... As I said before the positive in this was that it caused us both to return focus to our marriage which we both wanted in the first place but never focused on doing..... 

I also felt a sense of relief when she just resigned on her own despite what I said to do or not to do... since she has left that work environment our marriage improved dramatically in terms of tension and arguments... 

She is worth it and I never paid attention to that before all of this.. I am thankful that we are both getting a second chance.. In reality she should of checked out from me a long long long time ago... 

Here is to moving forward :toast:


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## walkonmars

Salsa!
Now your talking bay!


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## OldWolf57

BA its you doing the work man, so give yourself credit.
Yeah she could have, but she wanted the you that she saw enough of to love and marry.
So as I see it, you BOTH win!!!!


OH, don't forget to swerve the hips now "hahahaha"


----------



## lagaman11

BayArea said:


> Thank you for the responses... she does NOW admit that she knows it was wrong and has asked for forgiveness. she says she wants to focus on our marriage and to fix us.. I do admit that we have had issues for sometime now that were not given attention.
> 
> I am trying to control my emotions and feelings and focus on the repair of my marriage... We have a young daughter together and I dont want to break up my marriage. We have started counseling and talking about issues we both have..
> 
> When I told the OM wife she was terribly upset with her husband and my wife and rightfully so... I also did comfront the OM before telling his wife and told him to knock it off... of course he took the position of that he was just chatting with her and he had no intentions of doing anything more (BS TO ME)...


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## BayArea

Hi everyone... its been a while since I have been on the forums.. I wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.. I appreciate all of you... Have a great New Year


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## OldWolf57

Thanks BA, Happy new year to you and the Family.
Wishing you all the best in this new year !!!!


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## Caribbean Man

Same to you Bay Area.
Hope things continue looking up for you.


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## Decorum

Happy New year!


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## BayArea

Hi everyone.. its been a while... hope everyone is doing well.. I stopped by to read the old posts and check in...


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## BashfulB

BayArea said:


> Hi everyone.. its been a while... hope everyone is doing well.. I stopped by to read the old posts and check in...


Just read your thread. How is your marriage going?


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## Caribbean Man

BayArea said:


> Hi everyone.. its been a while... hope everyone is doing well.. I stopped by to read the old posts and check in...


Nice to hear from you again.
Hope things are moving in a positive direction for you and your family?


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## BayArea

Hi... Bash and Caribbean... We are still together and have constantly working on our marriage... the water has not been totally smooth, but things to get better... I have my moments when I start to think about the past and the "what ifs" I try to also remember what our counselor told us that when issues come up in marriages it is normally because of the tracks that we BOTH put down... not just one but both.. We keep pushing forward to making it a better life for the entire family. I think I am having these thoughts since we are getting close to the one year anniversary very soon and it brings thoughts back to my mind...


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## See_Listen_Love

Hi,

Please beware of obsessions, you have a bit an obessive character.

Wish you the best,


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## Decorum

Bay,
I mentioned the anniversary in our pm exchange but I should have added that it is not a date that you celebrate (so to speak) it is a date that the two of you reclaim together.

Think of some way to affirm each other, and make some new memories. SO the next year will have some competition.

I don't recommend big plans, that can go badly, just some smallish ways to share what you mean to each other.

Some food, a concert, not a big heartfelt letter, just smallish ways to build on.

SLL is right. SO be the leader!

God bless you brother.


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## Chaparral

Have you read any of the recommended books?


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## nogutsnoglory

BayArea said:


> So My wife did tell me last night that she understands why I am feeling the way I do... She said that although she wants to keep her job because she likes it, she knows that I wont be able to get over this situation and that she is going to start looking for something new... the part that was upsetting me this weekend is that sometimes I want her to make the decision of what to do in regards to the situation... when we were talking about the gun range incident and I said that if women went I would compromise on it... I expected her to know in her mind that she shouldnt go since it bothers me.... Our MC told us both that we shouldnt do things that makes the other person unconfortable.. so to me when she accepted the compromise it seemed to me like she was still had a desire to go... In the end I get confused because on one end she says she wants to make her own decisions but then she tells me that she wants me to make it black and white.. she says that if I dont want her to go at all to just say it and dont make compromises... but part of me wants to tell her how I feel and let her make the choice... in my mind if someone knows that something will not make you feel comfortable they should have the knowledge or understanding to not do it on their own... Just my Thoughts...


You just described one of your little tests that you are to stop doing to her.


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