# Trouble already... on the honeymoon!



## newandconfused (Oct 29, 2009)

Hi,

I was married just a few days ago, and already we're having difficulties. We're on our honeymoon (about halfway through it), and she refuses to see me. I'm even in a different room.

Ordinarily, our arguments result in her "needing space" for a while to cool off, which is fine. I'm put off at it being right now, instead of it waiting until we're finished with this once-in-a-lifetime thing. And she is drawing this out for days now. We had a perfect wedding, but she complains that I didn't help enough with it (I suck at planning). 

She is questioning whether marrying me was worth it, from a cost-benefit perspective (!). I'm not sure she's mature enough to be married, and doesn't realize that a marriage isn't about either one of us, it's about both of us together. At least that's my take on it. 

I admit that I'm not always the most thoughtful of guys, and that there is certainly much that I need to do to improve my relationship with her, but I would say there is much that she needs to do as well. I have apologized, but there seems to be nothing I can do, and every indication is that we will finish the honeymoon without doing a single thing together, without so much as seeing each other except in passing.

Am I wrong to think this is a bit excessive?

Thanks, especially for input from the ladies.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

How old are you both?

Yes, she is deliberately wrecking something that should be a wonderful time. She may be too immature to be married. 

But what really caused the row this time?

She isn't avoiding sex is she?


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## newandconfused (Oct 29, 2009)

Thanks for responding, as you can imagine, I'm simply waiting here rather unhappy with the situation, and hoping for some constructive input that may help me "fix" things sooner than later.

We're in our later 20's, she's slightly older than me. 

I think the finality of it has hit her, and she is afraid of the level of commitment that she's now in. Maybe she wanted a wedding, but is only so-so on the idea of marriage? She wants to know how she is better off now than when she was single. To quote: "What is your value-add to my life"? (which was very painful to hear)

She's never avoided sex, that's never been an issue with us, except the usual male / female dynamic.

She feels that she has to hold my hand through things too often (I'm the absent-minded type), and that she can't rely on me for the "little things". She does have some points there, as I struggle with that (I'm sure that's a common guy thing). I've taken steps to try to help with that, which is how I found this site.

She is stressed for various reasons, and justifiably, as she is busy with work, even during some of the honeymoon. That's not my fault though. I did not insist on having a trip now, but said we could wait until a better time. She is also angry because she planned just about the entire honeymoon, too. I am certainly not implying that she is angry over nothing, but I think how she is acting on it is not healthy for us.

She gave me a few things to do before we left, and I forgot to do some of them, and I think it was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. 

Now, to clarify the first post, I did help with the wedding, but the event was her baby, and everything I did needed to be cleared through her at least at some level, so it almost prevented me from doing things for it on my own. I also helped execute everything, and it basically wouldn't have happened logistically without me (and my family) putting in overtime at the end.

I HATE not talking through things, especially in this situation and setting. It took me a while to learn to cope with her fighting style: she needs cooling off time, and is not ready to talk about the issue immediately. But this is going on 4 days now.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

What would happen if you cut the honeymoon short and removed the pressure to fix things NOW?

I don't have a good feeling about this, I'm afraid. My husband and his ex- had a terrible time on their honeymoon and she was throwing their wedding and honeymoon in his face for the remainder of their marriage. 

I can definitely understand the "deer in the headlights" feeling when you realize you're married... I felt that way with my first husband. But she's got a lot of nerve detaching like this and doing an accounting of your value added services after she got the wedding that she was apparently wanting (more than the actual marriage). 

I think you might want to tell her that you gave her a wedding and it is up to her to decide if she wants a marriage or not. If she does, she needs to become a partner in the marriage and not think so much about herself. And if she can't stop being abusive (she's witholding, and IMO, that's abusive) then you're going to return home and she can join you when/if she decides that the marriage is more important than the wedding. You thought she married you because she loved you, and not for what you could DO for her. If you were mistaken, you believe she owes you an apology because the vows she took said nothing about "value adding".

Then, go home without her.

I'm not kidding. If you don't stop this **** behavior straight away, you'll be hostage to it for the rest of your life. 

And as for you, if you're forgetful, find out why. Is there an underlying cause? Is it passive-aggressive behavior? Do you have an executive functioning issue? Can you develop coping skills to make it less of an issue? (You know, lists, PDA, phone applications with alarms and such...) Don't make excuses that your overlooking little things is a guy thing. Whether it is or not, there are ways you can develop better skills. They're important for work so you can develop them for home, too.

How long did you date before you decided to marry?


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## newandconfused (Oct 29, 2009)

A little over two years, one of which was living together, so we've had time enough (I think) to sort of "ease" into it, or at least that was the idea...

Tomorrow, we'll be in the car together for a little while moving to the next city, so I'll at least have a captive ear. I was debating an ultimatum along the lines of: 

1. Figure out how to put this aside for a while, and involve me (stop withholding as you put it). Tell her essentially, that I'm not going to be walked on and treated like ****, no matter our grievances, and that I did think she was marrying me because she loved me, and not out of some dry cost/benefit consideration.

2. Call your parents and ask their advice, since they just dropped a lot of cash on us (the "best wedding" most of our guests had ever been to), and I think we owe them some insight, and they've been through a helluva lot themselves. (would this just add to the problems? She has not sought any outside advice / help AFAIK, but I don't want to give her the impression of betrayal somehow... even though that's kinda how I feel right now: betrayed).

3. If you don't call them, I will, just to get the ball rolling on *something*, for better or worse.

4. I suppose an early flight back might be a possibility, but I really want to exhaust everything else -- without making it worse, or making myself seem a pushover -- if possible.

I don't know exactly what passive-aggressive behavior is, but I do see in myself a certain amount of conflict avoidance. I definitely don't like it, and it manifests in an easy-going demeanor and being mostly unopinionated, but I'll only be pushed so far. And I agree, this sort of behavior just isn't going to cut it. Not in the short run, and definitely not in the long run.

I am ready, and have vowed, to give her everything I have, and to make this work, but she has to do the same.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

What is your value add to her life?

That question reflects a giant issue - it is not the presence of a weakness - even an infuriating (to her) weakness like being bad at planning/follow through. That question reflects a lack of seeing you in a positive light overall. 

I will say one thing. It is good to be self aware. But you said something scary. You said you suck at planning and that you also forgot to do some stuff on a list. Which means you are weak at execution, or at least weak at execution of some of this wedding/honeymoon stuff. Being weak at both is a very frustrating combo for the other person. 

Still - her behavior on the honeymoon bodes very badly for your marriage. 

What is happening raises questions about both of your commitment to the marriage. You are way too comfortable with your mis-steps and she is way to quickly ready to walk away from the marriage. 










dobo said:


> What would happen if you cut the honeymoon short and removed the pressure to fix things NOW?
> 
> I don't have a good feeling about this, I'm afraid. My husband and his ex- had a terrible time on their honeymoon and she was throwing their wedding and honeymoon in his face for the remainder of their marriage.
> 
> ...


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## newandconfused (Oct 29, 2009)

> I will say one thing. It is good to be self aware. But you said something scary. You said you suck at planning and that you also forgot to do some stuff on a list. Which means you are weak at execution, or at least weak at execution of some of this wedding/honeymoon stuff. Being weak at both is a very frustrating combo for the other person.





> What is happening raises questions about both of your commitment to the marriage. You are way too comfortable with your mis-steps and she is way to quickly ready to walk away from the marriage.


I am no longer at all comfortable with my mis-steps, but I'm glad you made that point. That is part of the reason I'm here, and currently researching "passive-agressive", fair fighting, etc. (I don't think I'm executive functioning impaired _per se_, as I'm actually quite able to function on higher levels. I'm more the absent-minded scientist sort). Right or wrong, enough or not, I viewed the vows as a passage into an elevated level of devotion and attention to details surrounding the other person and their needs. I am a list-oriented person, and a lot of what dobo suggested, I'm going to try.


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## joevn (Oct 23, 2009)

Too early for this kind of drama. 

Cut your loss and run. I mean it. It has all the bad signs.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Conflict avoidant, passive-aggressive, nice guy stuff is hell for marriage. The woman will walk all over you, stop respecting you and then possibly cheat or leave you. Or, you'll just remain whipped for your entire marriage but then you'll cheat as a passive-aggressive way to get out. None of that is good. So kudos for being willing to look into yourself. If she actually loves you, she would want you to be honest and confronting when necessary, but with love and for love. If she loves you being a push-over, she'll push back.

About executive functioning issues, you can be a scientist and highly functioning and still have executive functioning issues. I'm ADD and support scientists in IT (supposed to be a chemist but ended up doing computers in the lab environment). So don't necessarily discount it. Be open to all possibilities.

I'm glad you're going to confront her on this. Her behavior is unacceptable. 

And since you lived together before this, she certainly had time to think about what she was doing. She's not a kid anymore. But I swear to God she has some serious problems and if she won't admit that she does, be wary. Suggest individual counseling for her.

I actually like the idea of calling her parents. They'll be appalled at her behavior. But don't be surprised if they're not partially to blame for it. Whatever made her like this almost certainly came from their home environment.


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