# Double Betrayal



## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

I have been an active reader on this site since D-day and have found other people's stories helpful in relation to my current situation. But I am looking for advice or guidance or anything helpful to help me through my specific circumstances as its a bit different from anything I have read. So here is my story....

My spouse and I are not married. 

I was dating 'Dave' for a couple of months and met his friend 'Mike' during this time. Dave turned out to be a player and our relationship ended faster than it started. Due to a lack of emotional investment on that part Dave and I were able to remain friends. Mike chased me and wanted to start a relationship with me. It took several months but we ended up together. We fell madly in love with each other and were together for 5 years. I ended up losing my job and due to financially instabilities I had to move back home to the west coast as Mike was unable to hold us together financially. Initially the plan was for Mike to make the move to the west coast in a couple of month however that fell through and we ended up breaking up. He stayed on the east coast and I stayed on the west coast. 

For a solid 5 months we had no contact then Mike called me to see how life was treating me and we started talking over the phone every now and then. 10 months after our initial break up, I made a trip to visit friends over on the east coast and Mike and I reconnected during that time However it was temporary and I felt it was best that we left our relationship in the past and not start up again. Mike and I had talked every now and then over the phone and tried to be friends but again this was short lived. He wanted more and regretted letting me go but I was hurt and felt that I couldn't allow myself to go back to him. 

About 4 months later a group of friends and I headed south for a vacation and Dave was part of this group. Mike was not. Dave and I shared a room together and we spoke about how this would only be a friend-type of trip for us. However, Dave and I ended up sleeping together during our trip a couple of times. We both agreed that it was just for 'fun' and really didn't mean anything in regards to a future together. I hadn't spoken to Mike for a while before and after this trip and truly felt that it was over.

About 3 months later I made another trip back to the east coast to visit friends. It was at this point that Mike and I met up and he told me that he just couldn't continue living without me in his life and he was now ready to do whatever it took to be with me. I started to feel that same as he did as I have not been wanting to date or meet anyone else since he and I spilt. So he and I decided to get back together (long distance) and he would work on his move out to the west coast to start a life with me. As he and I were planning the move, I had to be honest with him about what had happened with Dave. He was completely upset and told me he needed time to see if he can get over me sleeping with Dave. A week later he called me and told me that we can get over this and he can't bare a life without me. This decision was made in September.

He ended up moving to the west coast in October. I was beyond happy and felt that this was it for us. I have dreamt about getting married to him and having a family. I was ready. He was ready. This was our time. 

Two days after he landed, he revealed to me that he had been seeing another woman for about 2 months just prior to him moving. (End of August up to October) He had only spilled the beans because we got into an argument and he let it all out. I felt deceived that he wasn't completely honest with me prior to him moving here. In the heat of the moment, he told me that he had fell in love with another woman. I was beyond devastated. He didnt want to tell me anything in detail. He was mean and told me that I deserved it because I had slept with Dave. He said that he wouldn't have done anything with anyone if it wasn't for me having sex with Dave on my vacation.

During his relationship with this OW (end of Aug to Oct), he was calling and messaging me everyday telling me how much he loves me and couldn't wait until he moved to be with me so we can start our life together. There were days were he would disappear for hours on end and he told me that he either fell asleep or was at the gym or that his phone was charging in the other room. I felt something was off but i didn't have any reasons to not trust him. So I believed him.

After the initial confession, he really didn't seem to care weather he stayed or left. I felt trapped because we just signed a new lease that he knew I wasn't able to afford on my own. We argued a lot during the day he made his confession and told me that he even reached out to her again because she was the only one who he can count on. I was even more hurt that now he was still talking to her on the phone. A few days passed and we were able to talk without arguing. I told him that if he even wanted a chance to work things out with me that he would need to cut her off completely from his life. He wasn't a fan of this and kept telling me things like 'we are just friends now'. But in the end, he agreed and told me that he told her he could no longer continue talking to her anymore.

For the following 5 weeks after his initial confession, I just wasn't sure how to deal with this situation. Every time I would ask details about her, he had told me how he met her, what she did for a living, how often they would see each other, etc... I told him that I would try to forgive him and tried to see it from his POW. But he was being extremely shady about the situation and especially about his phone. He took his phone everywhere with him, even when he took a shower. He would never let his phone out of his sight. We didn't argue all the time but when he did, he got very short with me. He threaten to leave. He called me weak. He said I deserved it for what I did to him.

I was extremely affected by this and reached out to a counsellor to help me through his stage. I wanted to forgive him. He made a big change by moving to the west coast for me. I understand that I hurt him by sleeping and going away with Dave. But at the end of the day, I wanted to know who this woman was. I desperately wanted to put a face to the OW.

I felt as we were making some progress but I felt like something was off. I had a feeling that he was still talking to her but he kept reassuring me that he was not. I asked him for a name or a photo. He gave me a first name and a nationality but that was it. No last name (so i couldn't look her up on FB) and no photo. He protected her identity.

We ended up going out with friends and had an amazing night. When we got home, he went to the washroom and he left his phone on the kitchen counter. I took his phone (my only opportunity) and wanted to see if there were any messages or photos that I can find to help me figure out who this woman was. I opened up the messages and I found out the truth. The OW was my best friend in the east coast.

They had been talking the entire time he moved to be with me. She has been sending him X rated videos and photos of herself. Videos were just like porn. She was sending him selfies almost every day. She called him things like 'my love' and said things like how she misses him and wants him to come back. I couldn't bare to read it all that moment I was in utter shock.

When Mike came out of the washroom, I looked at him and said the OW was Kate???? He instantly got mad that I went through his phone and refused to talk to me about it. He was more focus on the fact that I went through his phone then the fact that he was messing around with my so-called best friend. I wrote Kate a message and told her that I read the messages between Mike and her and demanded answers. She called me and we spoke. She told me that YES they did slept together, the details were none of my business, that I slept with Dave so in her mind this was okay and that it was only 'sex'.

I have never cried so much in my life then the amount that I cried over this. I didn't eat or sleep or drink anything for a solid 4 days. I cried so much, to the point that I felt sorry for myself. I was beyond destroyed. Words cannot describe what I went through on those days.

Mike was a complete jerk about the situation. He didn't seem to care too much initially. He said I deserved it. He told me that he would leave. The day that I found out the real truth has been the worst day in my life. The ultimate D-Day.

Its been about 3 and a half weeks since I found out the truth. And I am surprised about how strong I have been with all of this but I still don't know what to do. I don't think I can forgive nor forget. The amount of betrayal ran really deep. I just don't want to get over this. I feel that I deserved better than what was done to me. I am not perfect in any way but I am honest. And he lied to me. I don't even know when he is lying or when he is telling the truth anymore.

Kate is a w*ore. I knew this when she was my best friend. She was engaged and cheated so much on her fiancé and I knew these details. I knew that she likes 3-somes, gang bangs, sex with strangers in public washrooms, etc.. This poor excuse for a woman is an embarrassment. I should have known better. I kept this woman around and thought she would actually respect our friendship and not cross certain boundaries. She had slept with other taken men either who are married or in long-term relationships. She really has no shame. I should have known better. I blame myself for having such a horrible person in my life. I was nothing but a great friend to her. Tried to help her out whenever I could and really saw her in a positive light and this is the thanks that I got. She knew everything about Mike and I. She knew how broken I was after we broke up. She was there for me when I cried. She didn't even like Mike and bash him to me whenever she got the chance.

When Mike moved here, Kate was also calling me on the phone and asking how things were going. How excited she was for me to finally have Mike move here. I even confided in her and told her that things were weird between Mike and I. Mike later revealed that Kate had told him everything about what I was telling her. They spoke on the phone everyday for the first month that he was here. They skyped when I wasn't around. He told her he misses her.

So much truth has been revealed and I keep finding out new information. He bought her a necklace before he left. He told her he loved her and he will come back for her. Apparently thats what she has been telling everyone. Mike finally confessed that he did buy her the necklace and that he was lost in the moment with her when he told her that he loved her. He says that she isn't anything to him and that they haven't spoken since D-Day. I don't know if I can believe him anymore. 

He is completely transparent. He let me go through his phone, after he deleted all the messages and photos of course. He deleted her contact information and blocked her on Skype. He wants to work things out with me. But I feel so betrayed that I don't know if I honestly can ever forgive this. Betrayed by him. Betrayed by her. I don't know how I am still living my life. I am amazed about how strong I am when I really thought I was weaker. 

I wake up thinking about them. I go to sleep thinking about them. Every minute of everyday I think about them. I was told that they only met up 5 times. Once at his house (the start of their affair), three times in hotel rooms, and once just before he left where he gave her the necklace. I know how this woman is sexually so I can only imagine what their sex life consisted of.

Apparently she fell in love with Mike. But she also falls in love with all her men and begs them to leave their current partner for her. None have done this so far. I feel like she thinks this is a game. Of course, I no longer have any contact with Kate. She is dead to me.

I need advice. Is this forgivable? Am I being stupid for even considering? I look at Mike differently now. He is tainted. We haven't had sex or kissed or anything. I just can't. I just imagine him and Kate and thats all I need to be turned off. He tries so hard. He says he is sorry but I don't think he is. He says he regrets it and would do anything to take it back. But I just don't believe that either 

Mike claims that he was single when he was with Kate. But technically he was not as we were in a long distance relationship although we were not together physically. 

Any thoughts? Advice? Feel free to ask me questions as I was trying to give as much information as I could but I am sure there things I missed out.

Oh and Kate.... her ex fiancé was also a really close friend to Mike. I told him everything from all the cheating, to the lying, and the details with Mike. Mike lost everyone over at the east coast. All his guy friends cut him off. He has no one. I wonder how he was able to risk everything for nothing? He told me he would never be with someone like her. But then it doesn't make sense why he did all of this for nothing? He said he was just extremely hurt. He lost himself. He was not thinking with his head but with his d*ck. He told me that Kate was there for him. She gave him affection, a listening ear and basically became the woman he needed at that time.

I really feel that this has changed me. He was selfish. She was selfish. And I'm left picking up the pieces. 

Thoughts?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You two were broken up when you slept with Dave, right? None of Mike's business then.

Lose those two. Mike is more trouble than he is worth, and Kate is not a friend. 

My only worry right now would be getting out of the lease. Do you have a plan for that?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

My goodness... why are you willing to subject yourself to this?

Let go of both... it will be easier to be mindful without all the detrimental drama.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

Yes Mike and I were completely broken up when I was with Dave. We didn't speak for a while beforehand and started talking again a little bit afterwards.

I don't have much of a plan right now with the lease. I am trying to figure out if I can potentially take it on, on my own. I just feel so wronged by this whole situation. If only he had be honest with me prior to him moving out here then I would have the ability to actually figure out if I could forgive him or not. It would have been much easier to walk away seeing as I was doing fine on my own. He gave me such false hopes and just lied to my face. 

I am just in awe about the whole situation. I wonder if there will be a day where I no longer am consumed by the thought of those two together. I am disgusted.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

heartbroken_ said:


> Yes Mike and I were completely broken up when I was with Dave. We didn't speak for a while beforehand and started talking again a little bit afterwards.
> 
> I don't have much of a plan right now with the lease. I am trying to figure out if I can potentially take it on, on my own. I just feel so wronged by this whole situation. If only he had be honest with me prior to him moving out here then I would have the ability to actually figure out if I could forgive him or not. It would have been much easier to walk away seeing as I was doing fine on my own. He gave me such false hopes and just lied to my face.
> 
> I am just in awe about the whole situation. I wonder if there will be a day where I no longer am consumed by the thought of those two together. I am disgusted.


Let it go... it is healthier for you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

heartbroken_ said:


> Yes Mike and I were completely broken up when I was with Dave. We didn't speak for a while beforehand and started talking again a little bit afterwards.
> 
> I don't have much of a plan right now with the lease. I am trying to figure out if I can potentially take it on, on my own. I just feel so wronged by this whole situation. If only he had be honest with me prior to him moving out here then I would have the ability to actually figure out if I could forgive him or not. It would have been much easier to walk away seeing as I was doing fine on my own. He gave me such false hopes and just lied to my face.
> 
> I am just in awe about the whole situation. I wonder if there will be a day where I no longer am consumed by the thought of those two together. I am disgusted.


You are right to be disgusted. Just make sure you are getting them out of your life at the same time you are feeling it.

Focus on your housing situation. No fun getting in over your head financially while also feeling terribly hurt and betrayed.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

When I was your age I could lift 75 lbs with each arm. 150 lbs. total.

That is a lot of baggage even for a Red Hat.

Your arms are skinny. You cannot lift squat. Even with a Red Hat to overshadow your red embarrassed face.

Find a new guy with skinny arms.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

heartbroken_ said:


> I wonder if there will be a day where I no longer am consumed by the thought of those two together.


It will happen but the day it does is extended each day you continue to spend with Mike. 

The deception was too great, for too long. This one cannot be fixed.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I thought you said Dave was the player?

In reality Mike is the player par excellence. But not in a good way.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

You and Dave ..... it was only sex, right?

Mike and Kate ..... it was only sex, right?


As ye sow, so shall ye reap.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

syhoybenden said:


> You and Dave ..... it was only sex, right?
> 
> Mike and Kate ..... it was only sex, right?
> 
> ...


But at the time Dave and @heartbroken_ had sex, she and Mike was just a memory, at that time. They were not a couple, so each was free to pursue other love interests?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Heartbroken, you have been through so much. 
What you did affected Mike of course but he is acting so mean because of his ego, not because you did anything wrong. He is trying to equate you sleeping with Dave the same as he did with Kate but it is not the same thing. You know deep down you have to cleanse your life of Mike, he is no good for you and here is why:

1. you spent many years with this man and yet he didn't think you were worth making sacrifices for initially
2. after five years why could he not hold things together financially
3. i doubt very much he wasnt sleeping with lots of women in the intervening years
4.he committed to a long distance relationship but cheated with Kate
5. I am sure he knew of Kate's reputation but that did not stop him which says alot about his character
6. He spills the beans in an argument because he wanted to hurt you and is self righteous feeling justified even though when you slept with Dave you were single
6. His continuing deception is typical cheater, having his cake and eating it while making a decision whether to stay or not.
7. He was more focused on his privacy than the hurt he caused you
8. Even though he could see you in a distraught state, he continued to lie and be mean

All of this shows
1. he is self centred, it is all about him
2. he is a man of very low morals
3. a man of very poor character
4. He does not love you - not the way a man starting off a new relationship should
5. he will cause you more heartache and you will be the scapegoat when things go wrong

DUMP him ASAP!


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

It's Dave, No it's Mike, No Kate's in the middle... wasn't this episode 25 from Beverly Hills, 90210?

Seriously... no marriage, no vows, no contract, no commitment... "just friends"... NO Infidelity!


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't get the " it's only sex" and "FWB" thing.

To me sex is an act of love and commitment, not some sweaty ride at a carnival. 

To me it would seem that none of the protagonists here are of a like mind, so .... what's their beef?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

"Two days after he landed, he revealed to me that he had been seeing another woman for about 2 months just prior to him moving"

what a deceptive sanctimonious sack of ****. I would seriously reconsider shacking up with this guy. that is all.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

This reads like a soap opera. 

Do yourself the biggest favor in life and dump your dead weight x3.

Then get to therapy to work on your self-esteem and self worth, and when you're more healed, live in the way you want to be treated.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

aine said:


> Heartbroken, you have been through so much.
> What you did affected Mike of course but he is acting so mean because of his ego, not because you did anything wrong. He is trying to equate you sleeping with Dave the same as he did with Kate but it is not the same thing. You know deep down you have to cleanse your life of Mike, he is no good for you and here is why:
> 
> 1. you spent many years with this man and yet he didn't think you were worth making sacrifices for initially
> ...


You are right. Mike has told me that we are 'even' now so we can continue our life together. Its so ridiculous that not only am I angry. I am hurt and just destroyed. It is not the same. Mike and I were completely done when I got with Dave. And Dave and I were not planned. We were some what friends and never planned on being more than that. We were on vacation. We were a couple like 7 years ago and it was not anything serious at all. And what makes me absolutely furious is that when Mike and I didnt to reconnect again, I KNEW that I had to be honest with him before anything else could happen. I knew I had to tell him about Dave before he made his trip over to the west coast. He made me feel absolutely awful about what I did. I do take sex very serious. I am not one who has "fun", not even close. I can count the number of men I have been with on one hand and I am in the mid 30s! I justified sleeping with Dave for 'fun' because I thought what the heck, I already slept with them before, whats the harm in doing it again when I am single? I am not saying that this was the BEST decision. I am not perfect, not even close. But I am considerate of those close to me. I am loyal and god knows I am honest. This is why I feel like this was not right, what they did to me I KNEW I didnt deserve. All the lies and the sneaky behind my back. Kate would call me to see if I was at work still then call Mike to Skype before I got home. WHO DOES THAT? 

Kate would constantly ask how Mike and I were doing? Like I can see that she wanted to hear negative things. I remember a time when I told her that Mike was so serious about our relationship, that he told me he wanted to get married and have kids and that I was the one for him. She got mad at me which I thought it was because she never liked him but actually it was because she was inlove with him and wanting him to leave me for her.

To couldnt hold things together financially for us because he was barely able to hold a job back then. Even the job he was able to hold down for a couple of months, he didnt make such money. I was the sole bread maker for a long time. I also had encourage him to go for more and tried to help him apply himself. He is doing well now financially though. But for most of the 5 years that we were together and living together, I paid 80% of everything. So when I lost my job, I had no choice but to leave as he was not able to support me when I needed it.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

syhoybenden said:


> I don't get the " it's only sex" and "FWB" thing.
> 
> To me sex is an act of love and commitment, not some sweaty ride at a carnival.
> 
> To me it would seem that none of the protagonists here are of a like mind, so .... what's their beef?


Kate is a special type of person when it comes to sex. I personally think that she has some kind of mental issue. When we were friends, I had try to help her with this 'sex addition' as she was engaged to an amazing man but cheating on him every chance she got. It was sickening. She would tell me that I am a prude and to loosen up. She is only 32 and has been with over 80 men at least! She told me that she lost count and she thinks its hilarious. I feel like the biggest idiot because I knew her ways and I was so stupid to think she would respect me as a friend and not cross those boundaries. I dont think I will ever forgive myself for being so naive. 

However, as I uncovered more truth it looks like Mike and Kate developed some kinds of feelings towards eachother. Its weird. I cant even explain it. For a solid two weeks after Mike arrived here, she would call him everyday and cry to him that she misses him and to come back. Before Mike left, he gave her a necklace as a gift and told her he loved her and that he would come back to her.

Why in the hell did Mike even bother to come to the west coast? I am so ultimately confused by this. He has spent over $5000 relocating to be with me. If they were so 'inlove' why even bother? I was fine before he came. I had a home I was comfortable in. He came here to destroy me and put me in a situation that I really dont know how to get out of. I am seriously broken. 

Now he tells me that he is soooooo sorry and he was an idiot and how he loves me blah blah blah. Just to be clear, I have not slept with him or even kissed him since I found out. I cant. I am really grossed out. I told him that I dont think I can ever be with him again. He tells me that he will wait forever if thats what it takes. I asked him to leave but he doesnt want to. He has even offered couple counselling. But I just dont want to work it out with him. Although I love him, I dont think i am inlove with him anymore. The devastation was too much. But I feel scared to really push him out of my life. What is wrong with me?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just tell him you're going to stay away from men for awhile until you can pick a better one.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> "Two days after he landed, he revealed to me that he had been seeing another woman for about 2 months just prior to him moving"
> 
> what a deceptive sanctimonious sack of ****. I would seriously reconsider shacking up with this guy. that is all.


Oh I know. What a jacka**. When I asked him why he didnt tell me over the phone before any commitments were made, he told me that he never intended on telling me anything. He knew one day he would have to tell me, but he was hoping this was after we got married and had a couple of kids. WOW. 

I know I cant be with him. I know I can never forgive him nor forget. I feel scared I guess. I am 35 and was just ready to move into the next phase in my life. And now I feel hopeless. This was the one guy that I really thought was it for me. I have forgiven him for a lot of crap in the past. But when it comes to cheating ESPECIALLY when someone I know, I dont think i should move past this. I feel like if it was any of woman, maybe I would reconsider. But because it was her, I just cant. 

Ironically, Kate was always envious of me. I am pretty successful in my career, I am independent, I have assets, I have a university degree, I travel the world, and when we meet men together they usually give me more attention and tell her that I am 'cute'.

I know that she was envious as she has told me. I tried to bring her up. She lives with her parents, couldnt get a job for over 2 years, is seriously in debt, doesnt travel unless someone else pays, doesnt have an education (shes not very smart and talk about empty subjects) and she is not the best looking. She doesnt take care of herself at all, does drugs, drinks alot of alcohol and smokes like a chimney. 

I was that friend that encouraged her to make the right choices, showed her how to dress with class, bought her expensive gifts on her birthday, really tried to be there for her and supported her whenever I could. I helped her write her resume, helped her look for jobs online, reached out to my own contacts for assistance, and practiced job interviewing questions with her. When her engagement started falling apart, I was the one who helped her through it emotionally. When she had issues with her parents, I was the one who tried to get her advice or at least a listening ear. The fact that SHE did this to me left me in pieces. I did so much for this girl and she took me heart from my chest, stepped on it, spit on it, laughed at it then basically told me to get over it because it was only 'sex'. How do people like her even live with themselves?


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## Popcorn2015 (Sep 10, 2015)

I think everyone involved in this story has a TMG problem. I don't know if there is a good solution at this point.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

Popcorn2015 said:


> I think everyone involved in this story has a TMG problem. I don't know if there is a good solution at this point.


What is TMG?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Mike isn't worth it. He's blaming you for having sex with Dave. So what, you're all adults and NSA sex legal and acceptable.

You get points for being honest for having NSA sex with Dave for a few days. Mike is a jerk. A mature man would have said thanks for the honesty. Even if you had sex with 50 men, it's none of Mikes biz to be pissed because you two were NOT dating.

Mike was having a sexual relationship with Kate before he talked to you about moving out west and faked anger as he continued having sex with her. Likely they were doing the nasty until he left the East coast.

She is not just NSA sex. They are sexting and doing porn. He seems to want you for looks and kids and wife and have a sex sloot to do freaky stuff with.

Talk to the office, remove yourself from the lease, may be a $600 penalty then move out. Before he does.

He wasted your time. If you want kids, you should do it before you hit 40 as the complications go up fast year by year over the age of 35. Downs syndrome rates go up, etc.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

heartbroken_ said:


> I am 35 and was just ready to move into the next phase in my life. And now I feel hopeless.
> 
> I am pretty successful in my career, I am independent, I have assets, I have a university degree, I travel the world, and when we meet men together they usually give me more attention and tell her that I am 'cute'.


So explain why you feel hopeless?

Think about it.

Or are you REALLY saying "I'm afraid no man will want me"?

Two totally different things. The former is a great catch who SHOULD be very particular because she IS such a great catch and she knows she'll find the right guy eventually. The latter is a woman with low self esteem who simply thinks she'll have to settle.

Which are you?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

syhoybenden said:


> I don't get the " it's only sex" and "FWB" thing.
> 
> To me sex is an act of love and commitment, not some sweaty ride at a carnival.
> 
> To me it would seem that none of the protagonists here are of a like mind, so .... what's their beef?


Sex and love are two different things. Is rape a form of love then?

I've had lots of NSA sex. Love sex is the best thou. But there are differences... NSA maybe kinkier too.

The bull crap about Mike and Kate is that IF it's NSA, then the daily talks would have ended. When I switched from NSA/fwb to the date that would be my future wife, I didn't talk sex with my past... Even when some are friends.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> So explain why you feel hopeless?
> 
> Think about it.
> 
> ...


I know I am a great catch and my fear is not that no man would want me, my fear is that I will not be attractive or connect with another man. I have no problems with men chasing me and wanting to be with me. But I feel that its hard for me to find someone that I really like and that I really connect with. I think this is what scares me the most. And then out of that fear, I may settle for anyone then. My time is ticking. I am not young anymore and honestly I fear that I will not be able to have kids when I finally find the right person.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RWB said:


> It's Dave, No it's Mike, No Kate's in the middle... wasn't this episode 25 from Beverly Hills, 90210?
> 
> Seriously... no marriage, no vows, no contract, no commitment... "just friends"... NO Infidelity!


So, if a fiance cheats on their betrothed, there's no infidelity? :scratchhead:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

heartbroken_ said:


> I know I am a great catch and my fear is not that no man would want me, my fear is that I will not be *attractive *or connect with another man. I have no problems with men chasing me and wanting to be with me. But I feel that its hard for me to find someone that I really like and that I really connect with. I think this is what scares me the most. And then out of that fear, I may settle for anyone then. My time is ticking. I am not young anymore and honestly I fear that I will not be able to have kids when I finally find the right person.


Attractive or attracted to?


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> Attractive or attracted to?


My mistake, its suppose to say "attracted to".


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Everyone is tainted. If you felt so deeply for Mike, it's pretty messed up you hopped on Dave and sexed him. Mikes a pig too. I would like to get Kate's number though. But I digress, shake the cobwebs loose. You all sound like kids and nobody has made one mature thought. Are you so afraid of connecting with someone because of...Mike? Really?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

heartbroken_ said:


> Kate is a special type of person when it comes to sex. I personally think that she has some kind of mental issue. When we were friends, I had try to help her with this 'sex addition' as she was engaged to an amazing man but cheating on him every chance she got. It was sickening. She would tell me that I am a prude and to loosen up. She is only 32 and has been with over 80 men at least! She told me that she lost count and she thinks its hilarious. I feel like the biggest idiot because I knew her ways and I was so stupid to think she would respect me as a friend and not cross those boundaries. I dont think I will ever forgive myself for being so naive.
> 
> However, as I uncovered more truth it looks like Mike and Kate developed some kinds of feelings towards eachother. Its weird. I cant even explain it. For a solid two weeks after Mike arrived here, she would call him everyday and cry to him that she misses him and to come back. Before Mike left, he gave her a necklace as a gift and told her he loved her and that he would come back to her.
> 
> ...


So not only did he treat your relationship like **** before and after the seperation, lived off you basically instead of being a man and supporting himself. Is he earning now or still sponging of you? 

HB, there is no way to say this, drop this loser as fast as possible, what on earth do you see in him. It sounds like you have your **** together and could do much better than Mike. When the going gets tough again, as it does in life will he behave the same way again, there are so many red flags here you need to run for the hills.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

heartbroken_ said:


> Oh I know. What a jacka**. When I asked him why he didnt tell me over the phone before any commitments were made, he told me that he never intended on telling me anything. He knew one day he would have to tell me, but he was hoping this was after we got married and had a couple of kids. WOW.
> 
> I know I cant be with him. I know I can never forgive him nor forget. I feel scared I guess. I am 35 and was just ready to move into the next phase in my life. And now I feel hopeless. This was the one guy that I really thought was it for me. I have forgiven him for a lot of crap in the past. But when it comes to cheating ESPECIALLY when someone I know, I dont think i should move past this. I feel like if it was any of woman, maybe I would reconsider. But because it was her, I just cant.
> 
> ...


She is thrash and has no moral compass, Mike is not too far behind, get rid of them from your life.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

heartbroken_ said:


> I was that friend that encouraged her to make the right choices, showed her how to dress with class, bought her expensive gifts on her birthday, really tried to be there for her and supported her whenever I could. I helped her write her resume, helped her look for jobs online, reached out to my own contacts for assistance, and practiced job interviewing questions with her. When her engagement started falling apart, I was the one who helped her through it emotionally. When she had issues with her parents, I was the one who tried to get her advice or at least a listening ear. The fact that SHE did this to me left me in pieces. I did so much for this girl and she took me heart from my chest, stepped on it, spit on it, laughed at it then basically told me to get over it because it was only 'sex'. How do people like her even live with themselves?


She's the kind of person who takes takes takes, including boyfriends. That's all there is to it. Don't waste your time trying to figure her out.

As for dumping Mike, the cost of breaking your lease is sooooo much less than the cost of staying with a selfish, lying, cheater.


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

I do hope you have had yourself tested for STDs.

IamSomebody


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> So, if a fiance cheats on their betrothed, there's no infidelity? :scratchhead:


No MM that's plain a$$ cheating... falls in the commitment clause.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

heartbroken_ said:


> Oh I know. What a jacka**. When I asked him why he didnt tell me over the phone before any commitments were made, he told me that he never intended on telling me anything. He knew one day he would have to tell me, but he was hoping this was after we got married and had a couple of kids. WOW.


This whole story is tragic, and Lord knows you have a host of reasons to dump this sorry excuse for a man, but the quote above alone would make me cease and desist. Imagine going through your whole life with him wondering in the back of your head what other Secrets he is keeping from you? Run run run! Let them have each other. They can marinate in their own immoral filth. They're gross.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

Herschel said:


> Everyone is tainted. If you felt so deeply for Mike, it's pretty messed up you hopped on Dave and sexed him. Mikes a pig too. I would like to get Kate's number though. But I digress, shake the cobwebs loose. You all sound like kids and nobody has made one mature thought. Are you so afraid of connecting with someone because of...Mike? Really?


Dave and I got together about a year after Mike and I had officially split and we were not talking or had any hopes or R during that time. Truth be told, I thought Mike and I were done for good. If I had ever thought Mike and I had a little bit of a chance to R then I would have never have been with Dave.

I know we all sound like kids, I can't believe that I am in such a situation like this. I would have never have dreamt of this happening to me. I am just absolutely broken inside. I don't think I am being immature or anything just really broken really. Still in the process of putting myself together. 

Could anyone give me an idea of how long it takes someone on average to begin to feel normal again? I know we are all different but I feel like this nightmare will never end. I just want to feel whole again.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

heartbroken_ said:


> Dave and I got together about a year after Mike and I had officially split and we were not talking or had any hopes or R during that time. Truth be told, I thought Mike and I were done for good. If I had ever thought Mike and I had a little bit of a chance to R then I would have never have been with Dave.


There is a difference between thinking you had a chance and just not banging your ex-boyfriend's buddy. I mean, yeah, I hear what you are saying, but, that is tough for anyone to get over.



> I know we all sound like kids, I can't believe that I am in such a situation like this. I would have never have dreamt of this happening to me. I am just absolutely broken inside. I don't think I am being immature or anything just really broken really. Still in the process of putting myself together.


Putting yourself together isn't an easy process, and you may find out that you are stronger in the long run because of this. You can't change what has happened, you can only choose to learn from it. Do it. Learn from it.



> Could anyone give me an idea of how long it takes someone on average to begin to feel normal again? I know we are all different but I feel like this nightmare will never end. I just want to feel whole again.


Coming from an expert on this stuff (working on my second divorce right now), you never feel normal since there is no such thing as normal. It doesn't exist. Clear it from your head. There is only life and experience and decisions you make going forward. Mike and Dave and Kate and whomever have no impact on how you progress from here on out. This is about you, focus on who you want to be. Focus on living up to your own expectations of yourself. Enjoy each and every day you have maintained that level and you find out that not only are you happier because you have turned the focus inward, but also overall you are now being the person you want to be.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

heartbroken_ : This is a life lesson. Take it as that and move on quickly.

Plan you exit strategy right now, if not already. Move out, don't worry about what effect it has on Mike. He disrespected you in many ways so you do NOT owe him anything. If he ends up on the street, bad credit, lost money, etc etc - so what, move OUT in the next few days, stay with a friend until you find another place. Anything.

Look at it this way, your PAIN would be FAR FAR greater if you found out 5 years from now, when you're 40 with 1-2 kids, married, and have some dependency on him. Then you'd be MORE stuck... and even after divorce, you'd have to deal with custody battles and visitations with mike. UGH!

Also, you can bet Mike would be having sex with Kate whenever you guys meet up, even at the wedding. Maybe have sex with other women and increase the chances of giving your STDs.

We cannot stress how much that you NEED to leave this guy ASAP. If you were to move out next week, I would bet that Mike will be back with Kate before 2017. There is nothing worth saving here. Him lying to you and then blaming YOU for problems, and blaming YOU for having sex with Dave when you were NOT even with Mike shows many many problems. Mike would have gotten worse in time, hiding it from you as long as he could.

That would have been the WORST thing to have happened. Which meant your "future" relationship with Mike was a lie to begin with when he made plans to come live on the west coast.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

To heartbroken_

Move on ASAP. You've already stated your concerns about age and having children. Mike has wasted a number of years with you.

And you have to do your best to not let desperation make choices for your future. I am someone who looks at data, articles from professionals, etc. When I decided to marry my wife, I was aware she couldn't have kids. She was torn up by that. But by chance, we did have a child and it was a very high-risk pregnancy that had complications that still affect her health to this day. Recently, a family member at age 30 had a good pregnancy and lost her baby. 

With data and such, age 25~30 is the best time to get married/serious relationship and have children about 2~3 years later. Age 40+ grows by each year. Its best to have 2-3 years of healthy relationship to hopefully know you have a good partner for the long-haul and child-rearing.

So don't want to rush and choose a guy, get married in months, have a baby before the 1yr together and then find out he has issues. Mind you, some people are fakes 10+ year into marriage 

So I do recommend you start dating guys as soon as you think you can. Meet a lot. You don't have to sleep with them. 5 guys isn't much to learn from. There are many variables that need to be meet. Because I had lots of partners before I meet my wife - I pretty much knew what I didn't want, like never marry a girl with tattoos. But I fell for my wife (has tattoos) on our first date... we had sex 2 hours after we meet, married 2 months after that and have been together for 6 years and are surviving the biggest challenge a couple can face. 

You may not know when you may meet that special guy, but you need to put yourself out there. IRL or online. A friend of mine is in a great 4-yr relationship with a man she meet on a dating site. You'll meet nice guys and creepers anywhere.

Your variables:
- physical Attract to him
- Personality (does you like his?)
- sexual compatibility (if he sucks in the sack, means unhappy marriage) what may work for him, my not work for you.
- stability (job, legal problems)
- annoyances (we all have traits that are not perfect. I'm still working on mine)
- health 
- longterm compatibility
- child-rearing ideas
- does he want children?
- maybe he's not a dog person and you have two of them?
- etc.

You'd need to be kind of upfront with your goals, but not in a way that chases off a man... or in a way, that allows a player to PLAY you. 
IE: I wouldn't want to be with a woman who wants me to get her pregnant - and most of us guys are aware of the age/time issue. A player would use that against you for the sex, wasting time and then dumping you when he can't keep you pulling your chain. Networking can be good too. There have been a few women (some I dated) that I friended and recommended to others for dating.

There are many great guys in their 30s~50 or so that can be a good husband, lover and father. Just make sure you want to show that you are honest, faithful that you want the same for which to have a family.

When you told Mike about your vacation time with Dave... If that was me you were telling, I would have given you A++ score. You seem to have valuable traits (but we all make mistakes) that Mike didn't recognize by OTHER MEN would. Don't be ashamed to tell a guy about it either, if he asks about your past. Because think of it this way...

The point of time with Mike and dealing with his bullcrap will lead you to someone else that will be thankful that Mike was a jerk. That why its a life lesson and he isn't worth your tear.

PS: My friend who meet her great man of 4 years; I have known her for 10 years... I told her to dump her previous BF because he was abusive. I didn't want to her hear more complaints about him. Either dump him or live with him. 2 weeks after that talk, she dumped him after a 2+ year relationship. She spent about 5 weeks getting over the breakup, started casual dating, 2-3 weeks after that she meet her guy online. I hope they get married, they are perfect for each other in everyway than any of them men before. He's been there for her when she needed it. They too had some challenges in which they both grew up as adults and are doing great today.

Don't let Mike and Kate waste another day of your life.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Your story has echoes @LosingHim. Her husband J, his best friend and his best friend's wife match up with Kate, Mike, and Dave. Note not in the details but attitudes. 

Your "friend" Kate sounds like she is either a BPD or a CSA victim. Don't try helping her, she will destroy you.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

syhoybenden said:


> I don't get the " it's only sex" and "FWB" thing.
> 
> To me sex is an act of love and commitment, not some sweaty ride at a carnival.
> 
> To me it would seem that none of the protagonists here are of a like mind, so .... what's their beef?


Love and commitment are great long term entertainment and sweaty carnalval sex is generally a helluva fun short term ride.

It's all about *all* of the riders understanding and agreeing on which ride they're on so that no one is screaming and puking in shock and surprise midpoint. That's all.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

JohnA said:


> Your story has echoes @LosingHim. Her husband J, his best friend and his best friend's wife match up with Kate, Mike, and Dave. Note not in the details but attitudes.
> 
> Your "friend" Kate sounds like she is either a BPD or a CSA victim. Don't try helping her, she will destroy you.


I will read up on LosingHim's story, I feel it helps when you see other people are experiencing similar issues as you are. Hence why I find this forum to be very helpful during this difficult time.

What does BPD or a CSA stand for?

I have to say that I have good days and I have bad days. Mike and I have been able to communicate in the last few days with respect and understanding. He no longer has or makes excuses for his behaviour. He even told me the other day that I didnt deserve this and that he loves me so much that he just cant allow himself to even try to be with me after what he did. He looks and sounds like he has remorse. And although I may even believe him, I just will never be able to get passed what he and Kate did behind my behind my back. Its all the lying that also killed me. Theres nothing more than I hate than a liar.

We have set up a plan for him to move out and he has asked me for some time seeing as it super difficult to find anything in this city. He told me that he doesnt plan to move back to the East Coast. If anything, it sounds like he wants to give me space, move out, let me do what I need to do, then he will see how I have been and if it would at all be possible to give it a shot again. So basically, he told me he would wait for me and see how I feel later.

I am really too emotional, betrayed, and upset about this whole thing. I just need my space from him. I know that. Every time I see him, I just get reminded of what he did to me.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Border line personality disorder

Childhood Sexual Sexual Abuse

FOO is famly of origin


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

heartbroken_ said:


> We have set up a plan for him to move out and he has asked me for some time seeing as it super difficult to find anything in this city. He told me that he doesnt plan to move back to the East Coast. If anything, it sounds like he wants to give me space, move out, let me do what I need to do, then he will see how I have been and if it would at all be possible to give it a shot again. So basically, he told me he would wait for me and *see how I feel later.*


Now, see, a REMORSEFUL person would instead be talking about what HE will do to fix HIS issues, how he could make it UP to you, instead of just waiting for you to 'calm down.'

He's a manipulator. And I'll bet money he doesn't move out.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

Another thing I wanted to add is that he admit yet another piece to me last night about this 'affair'. Mike and Kate got a hotel room 2 days before he was scheduled to depart. He told me they had sex once in the night and once in the morning. So that would bring it to about 24 hours prior to us being together. *yuck*

Mike told me that he and Kate exchanged 'good-bye' gifts. He gave her the necklace and she bought him an iPod mini. He told her that he loved her and that he would be back for her.

In the total 5 years that Mike and I were together, he never EVER bought me a piece of jewelry. Not a necklace, not earrings nor a bracelet. So even knowing that he bought this poor excuse for a woman a $80 necklace is just adding onto the fire. When he landed, he gave me a pair of earring and necklace. Obviously I returned them back to him after the truth came out. But he even told me that he showed him to Kate. 

What is wrong with Mike? Can someone at all try to explain his behaviour and actions? He told this woman he loved her, missed her and even bought her a nice necklace. Then told me he didnt mean any of it and was lost in that moment. Its beyond ridiculous. I just wish I could go back in time and tell him to not bother even coming. This guy came here to mess up my heart and life. I was fine before he came. This angers me.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> Now, see, a REMORSEFUL person would instead be talking about what HE will do to fix HIS issues, how he could make it UP to you, instead of just waiting for you to 'calm down.'
> 
> He's a manipulator. And I'll bet money he doesn't move out.


He has asked me on numerous occasions what he could do to fix this? But there isn't anything except go back in time and NOT do what he did. I feel like he is trying. But to me, its just a waste. I just cant look past it. He has tried to make it up to me and told me he would do anything. But the problem is, there is nothing he can do. I mean like really, what could he do to make this pain go away? 

I have made a timeline of the events using text messages between Mike and myself and Kate and myself... along with call logs. Now it looks soooo obviously that he was lying. That he both were. How he had disappeared for hours on end and told me he fell asleep or whatever. I feel like an idiot for not questioning him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What's wrong with him? You aren't 'the one.' You're not the one he's hoped for, dreamed of, or loved. You're just easy. So he's never looked at you as a woman he has to treat like one.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

heartbroken_ said:


> He has asked me on numerous occasions what he could do to fix this? But there isn't anything except go back in time and NOT do what he did. I feel like he is trying. But to me, its just a waste. I just cant look past it. He has tried to make it up to me and told me he would do anything. But the problem is, there is nothing he can do. I mean like really, what could he do to make this pain go away?
> 
> I have made a timeline of the events using text messages between Mike and myself and Kate and myself... along with call logs. Now it looks soooo obviously that he was lying. That he both were. How he had disappeared for hours on end and told me he fell asleep or whatever. I feel like an idiot for not questioning him.


Now, see, HE should have made the timeline. HE should have figured out how to make it up to you. HE should have researched it, gone to a pastor for help, admitted it to his parents and yours and asked for their forgiveness.

He should have done SOMETHING!

But he didn't.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Forgive me if it's been asked but have you been tested for stds?


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

heartbroken_ said:


> Mike told me that he and Kate exchanged 'good-bye' gifts. He gave her the necklace and she bought him an iPod mini. He told her that he loved her and that he would be back for her.
> 
> In the total 5 years that Mike and I were together, he never EVER bought me a piece of jewelry. Not a necklace, not earrings nor a bracelet.


I wonder what she was doing for him that you weren't. Maybe he gave her a pearl necklace.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

lucy999 said:


> Forgive me if it's been asked but have you been tested for stds?


Yes of course! Thats one of the first things I did. Thank God everything was negative.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> What's wrong with him? You aren't 'the one.' You're not the one he's hoped for, dreamed of, or loved. You're just easy. So he's never looked at you as a woman he has to treat like one.


Hmmm what would make you say that exactly? I am not easy. I will tell you that. It took him a long time to initially have sex with me when we first started dating. He even told me that is one of the things that made him fall for me because all his other women that he had gave it up much much faster. I made him wait approximately 6 months. And we saw eachother every day (almost). So I do welcome your POW however I must ask for clarity as to why you would say that I am easy and how he has never treated me like 'the one'. Please elaborate....


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

@;


browser said:


> I wonder what she was doing for him that you weren't. Maybe he gave her a pearl necklace.


Apparently he gave her a necklace from one of those kiosks at the mall. Told me it was 65$ plus tax.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

heartbroken_ said:


> @;
> 
> Apparently he gave her a necklace from one of those kiosks at the mall. Told me it was 65$ plus tax.


Pearle necklaces are free.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

And this is the season for giving.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

heartbroken_ said:


> Hmmm what would make you say that exactly? I am not easy. I will tell you that. It took him a long time to initially have sex with me when we first started dating. He even told me that is one of the things that made him fall for me because all his other women that he had gave it up much much faster. I made him wait approximately 6 months. And we saw eachother every day (almost). So I do welcome your POW however I must ask for clarity as to why you would say that I am easy and how he has never treated me like 'the one'. Please elaborate....


I meant easy as in terms of being available. Not having to work that hard. Being more invested in him than he is in you. No work involved. 

HAS he treated you like you were 'the one?' I must have missed it.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> I meant easy as in terms of being available. Not having to work that hard. Being more invested in him than he is in you. No work involved.
> 
> HAS he treated you like you were 'the one?' I must have missed it.


I still dont know if me being available really applies to our situation. When we reconnected in July, we were both on the same page of wanting to try it again however he would need to move across the country for us to continue. We were in a LD relationship for those couple of months and he officially moved his entire life from the east coast to the west. We had to sign a new lease, buy new furniture, etc... So I am not sure how I was 'available' seeing that I had told him that I didnt want to try again several months beforehand (before my incident with Dave). He had been trying to get back with me for a very long time.

In regards to him treating me like I was the one? Maybe you are right. He was pushing so hard in the past to have a baby with me but due to financial reasons, I didnt think that was the best choice for us. He always blamed me for not be ready but at that time he was struggling even holding down a job! I was the first girlfriend where he moved in with and started a life with as he had never done this in the past. He did not have good finances in the past whereas now he has finally got his s*** together in that sense. He had always taken me to his family gathering and his family had referred to me as their daughter in-law. 

We were really inseparable those 5 years that we were together and felt that overall we were a strong couple although we had our share our issues I would have never in my wildest dreams would have thought that he was capable of destroying me in this manner.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

I should also mention that we were had our talk a couple nights back and he told me that he always loved me however during our time apart (almost 2 years) the feelings werent as strong in those months where we were in a LD relationship. So that was another factor he opened himself to Kate and he thought about if he could actually date her eventually. Then he told me that he was fond of her and liked her but never loved her. He told me that even those feelings weren't strong enough for her to actually stay. He said that he always saw his future with me. He told me that being with her for that month emotionally affected him and thus is why he continued talking to her for about 2-3 weeks after he landed. Then he said as he and I started reconnecting again, he started to feel guilty about what he was doing and slowly started to stop talking to her as much and their conversations went from "I miss you" to more friendly conversations like "how is life?".

He told me he was sorry. He said spending the time with me again and reconnecting with me brought back all those intense feelings of love that he said weren't as strong when we were in a LD relationship. He has told me that he will do anything to make it up to me but knows he f***ed up.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

heartbroken_ said:


> Another thing I wanted to add is that he admit yet another piece to me last night about this 'affair'. Mike and Kate got a hotel room 2 days before he was scheduled to depart. He told me they had sex once in the night and once in the morning. So that would bring it to about 24 hours prior to us being together. *yuck*
> 
> Mike told me that he and Kate exchanged 'good-bye' gifts. He gave her the necklace and she bought him an iPod mini. He told her that he loved her and that he would be back for her.


See? He was that predictable to us.

He's stalling. It's all on him. Whenever he moves out or you do. Delete and ban him out of your life.

Maybe tell him to go back to the East coast because you won't change your mind. Farther away he is, the better it is for you. Less likely of him trying to mess with your feelings.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

browser said:


> And this is the season for giving.


The gift was given in October.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorry you're so deep in the drama. Personally, I think sex among friends is a horrible idea for exactly this reason. It's only ok if it's NSA or FWB sex (neither of which I've ever had).

Sex is fine and probably fun, but most guys I know can't get past the idea of their GF or W having had sex with a friend. Obviously Mike couldn't either. And now you can't with respect to Kate.

Take a step back. You either have to have a completely open attitude toward sex, like @TaDor, or have strict boundaries. You can't really say you have those boundaries, even though at one time you made people wait a long time to have sex. It's not the same thing. Waiting is a way to force commitment, but an open attitude is very, very different.

The lying and deceit is BECAUSE no one in this story, except Kate - who you consider to be a wh0re - has an open attitude toward sex. You only lie and try to cover things up if you believe it's wrong.

So accept that neither you nor mike have an open attitude toward sex. And, given that, and the fact that you've both slept with different friends, accept that neither of you will get past this.

You would basically both be R'ing with each other. And both of you feel betrayed.

Forget the clock. I just don't think this will work. Sorry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

heartbroken_ said:


> Yes of course! Thats one of the first things I did. Thank God everything was negative.


Please retest in six months to be sure. That is the typical medical recommendation.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

So AGAIN last night I found out more information from Mike. I just wonder how much more I will find out. Two days prior to his departure to the west coast, Kate went over to his house to help him ship a few moving boxes. They packed up her car with her items, drove him to the shipment center, and sent his boxes to the west coast. I remember this particular day because we spoke and he told me he took a taxi which I knew just didn't sound right.

Then the two of them went to the mall so that he can buy me a gift. As they walked in the mall, they past a kiosk and it was at that point where he bought her that necklace. Apparently she wore immediately after he purchased it for her. Then they went into a store and they bought me earrings and a necklace as a gift from him to me.

After the mall, they checked into the hotel room where they had sex that night and there last sex session was in the morning. They spent most of the afternoon together and said good bye. 

He then didn't give himself enough time to pack and he ended up missing his flight in the morning. He landed a couple of hours after his original scheduled time.

I am just so in awe about this entire thing that I dont even know what to think anymore. He bought me a gift with her??? And knowing her she most likely picked it out. Thoughts?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And knowing they were about to have sex? Donate the gifts to some women's shelter where they help women dress up for interviews.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

There is nothing really more to learn from Mike that I think will help. Either you take him as being completely honest and you want to work on taking him back or leave. If leaving - nothing more is needed to know. It'll just hurt. When my wife cheated, she needed to come clean on everything in order for us to get past the issues and work on recovery.

I'll give you a tip, from the guy side of things if you are going to be single and looking for a future with a man.

6 months of no sex when first dating. Sorry, but you're more likely wasting your time. In the dating world, 3 dates (give or take) is usually needed to determine if the energy is good.
You know what most guys will do when you wait 6 months? If they don't flat-out leave. They may still want to "hit it" and will date you for months, but after the date is over - they'll go have sex with someone else. Literally - right after dinner a peck on the cheek "bye" - he'll be in a bar 30mins later on a date that'll lead to sex. Sorry, but I've heard this directly from quite a few men, some will have sex with several women over that 6 month period. Even *IF* they consider you girlfriend material.

- once the guy HAS sex with a woman and knows he can get more... he can be MORE himself - IF HE really likes her. So he's not trying to BE HIS BEST (selling himself) to get into panties, he can be more talking about various things of interest rather than trying to sell. It takes the pressure off of him quite a bit. It's biology, we think about sex every few minutes.

- What if the GUY is a horrible lover, has a very ugly penis, or a very LARGE penis or a 2-inch penis? A friend dated a guy who was JUST awesome in every way, handsome & fit, well-to-do, very nice. But he really had a pinky-size penis. She couldn't do it, she couldn't even fake it. She never dated him again. Also, what if the guy decides "she's not doing it for me" in the bedroom? A healthy long-term relationship requires both brain-compatibility as well as sexual compatibility.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

I don't see the point in learning more from this prickly character. EVERY day you seem to be poked with new information that both demeans and disrespects the position of girlfriend to this worthless man that you no longer occupy. This is no longer your problem.
What is your problem? 

1. this lease. Why wait till he leaves. Break your lease. I know i know... But you have loved ones and friends. Maybe you could crash there. 

2. Blocking Kate and this Mike douche from your life. 

Also (kate), my husbands OW name...So this is super triggery. Now as a result I hate ALL KATES.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

And the answer to WHY would he do this? 
Because he thought he could. '

He does not love you. 

People don't do that to people they love, 

Confusion is not an excuse.

He used David as his cover to explain his actions.

He was an ******* to you before because he needed to be Righteous, the least righteous scream loudest when they think they have been treated unjustly. They sometimes even convince themselves to their own lies. 

Bottom Line, Mike does not treat those close to him consistently well. HE turns on them. 
Drop him, and tell him he does not have a chance in hell with you again. Never. 

You are not married. no kids, just a lease...leases are easy to break COMPARATIVELY.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

heartbroken_ said:


> So AGAIN last night I found out more information from Mike. I just wonder how much more I will find out. Two days prior to his departure to the west coast, Kate went over to his house to help him ship a few moving boxes. They packed up her car with her items, drove him to the shipment center, and sent his boxes to the west coast. I remember this particular day because we spoke and he told me he took a taxi which I knew just didn't sound right.
> 
> Then the two of them went to the mall so that he can buy me a gift. As they walked in the mall, they past a kiosk and it was at that point where he bought her that necklace. Apparently she wore immediately after he purchased it for her. Then they went into a store and they bought me earrings and a necklace as a gift from him to me.
> 
> ...




Some folks just are like that. don't do the human ownership thing, do the random gifting thing.....

If it's your kind of thing, and they're being fair (sharing the love/time/attention) that's ok.
If it's not your kind of thing, then do yourself a favor - walk away. they aren't really doing anything particularly wrong - but hanging around when it hurts and you know they're like that, that's the wrong. main important point is not to fool yourself. work out if you're "that kind of person" or not. then don't expect them to change for _your_ expectations...go find someone who matches your expectations. lifes too short to play bad games.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

Today marks one month and one day since DDAY. Thank you to everyone who has given me their perspectives and their POWs. It really does help having a support system like this and I found it extremely helpful to get feedback based on Mike's actions or words versus getting advice from people who know him and try to make sense what he did.

Its been an absolute roller coaster for me. I have decent days and I have really bad days although I have noticed that I can no longer cry anymore. I cried for 4 days straight non-stop the moment I found out and I'm not even exaggerating, so I guess thats what did it.

Mike did finally put together a timeline of each and every time they were together. Told me what they did and what they spoke about (to some degree). Tried to explain to me where his mind was at then and where it is now. He shows complete remorse and is being 100% transparent. But I feel at this point that the damage is so great that I will not ever be able to overcome this. Besides the nasty sexual encourages they had, its the lying that really gets me and that alone I cannot forgive. Its too dishonest. Had he be honest from the start, maybe I would be able to give him more credit of being 'confused' while he was on the East Coast but that fact that he continue to be in some kind of relationship when he and I were restarting our life here, is just too much to take.

They were together a total of 6 nights but talked via phone and Skype almost everyday when he was there and a month after he landed here. I have asked about some sexual details and he has told me although I know it doesn't do me any good. I get it but a part of me just wants to know. I don't know why. And the details don't surprise because I knew this girl pretty well. I knew what she was like sexually as she is a type of person that over-shares.

Mike has come clean to his parents and his brother. His brother stopped talking to him because of what he did to me. His parents are trying to be supportive and give him good advice. (i.e.: give her space, don't push, let her decide what she wants, etc..) Apparently his parents are always asking about me and are concerned. They want to talk to me on the phone but I don't want to. I feel a bit angry because his mother knew what he was doing with Kate when it was going on. And although she told him it was wrong, I feel like she should have done more. But then, its your own mother and she will always love her son no matter what he does. So I guess I have mixed feeling about this. Mike's mother asked him if he wants to be with Kate and he told her no and even she is confused about his actions and stupidity. 

Mike is trying to hard to R with me. But I just can't get over the betrayal. He told me that the day after I found out the truth that he had spoken to Kate and told her how I reacted. And she told him how I was being such a drama queen and he told her that he agreed. I don't think that either of them really realize the extent of pain that was brought onto me due to their actions. He had told me that he was also devastated in the same way when he found out about Dave. But I don't agree at all. It is completely different as I never lied to Mike about it or mislead him in anyway. We weren't in contact at all. For all I knew, he had moved on with someone else. Thats what people do when they break up. When he tries to compare it as the same, he just can't really understand that is isn't the same and its not even close to being the same. Its a bit frustrating as I understand that what I did, DID hurt him but what I did was not cheat or lie to Mike. What Mike did was completely cheat on me and lie to me. He tries to say that he physically was still over there and wasn't 100% sure on what the outcome would be with me. Then when he and I re-started and re-connected, thats when he really knew and started to feel guilty and he cut her off. He said he told Kate that it was over and they cannot continue anymore as he wanted to focus on us. I was able to confirm that he had not spoken to Kate for about a week before D-Day. But then again, he should have came clean. His story is that he wanted to tell me who this woman who as he did initially tell me there was 'someone' but he didn't know how to tell me. He said that he purposely left the phone on the kitchen counter the night I found out. This MIGHT be true, I don't know as he did not leave his phone out of his sight for one second prior. Or this might have been a slip up. Who know. I kept pushing and pushing to know more about this 'woman' and his story is thats the real reason he left his phone there for me to see. Thats why he didn't erase any messages and wanted me to find out that way as he just simply couldnt verbally tell me but he wanted me to know. He told me that he told Kate he was going to tell me the truth and she tried to convince him otherwise (aka - take it to the grave) but apparently he told her he couldn't keep up the lie and that I deserved to know the truth. 

I am haunted by their relationship. I have nightmares. I think about them together all the time. Its really distracting. I find it hard to concentrate when I am at work or to try to enjoy my time when I am out with friends. I know I have to stop thinking about it and let it go. 

I told Mike that he needs to move out and that I will take over the lease. He has begged me to forgive him. But I know that I will never ever be able to get over this. Not now at least. I need him out of my life so I can heal. But he is fighting for us. Where was this fight 2 months ago?

He told me is absolutely disgusted with his own actions. He told me he has never cheated or lied to me ever before and that he didn't know who he was during this time. Although I kinda believe him, I just can't get over it.

As much as it pains me, I know that I deserve better. I would have even maybe tried to R with them if he was honest with me as soon as he landed. But the lies carried on for a month afterwards. I don't trust him anymore. And I don't look at him the same way I use to. It makes me sick to my stomach to know that Kate experienced what was suppose to be sacred between us. And Kate likes to brag about her sex life to anyone who listens, I already know that she telling everyone about how Mike was in bed. The whole thing just bothers me. Its not sacred anymore.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Has he agreed to move out or does he just ignore your request that he leave and keep saying how he's sorry and he begs you to forgive him?

Because if that's what's happening you may want to consider another strategy. Tell him that reconciliation is still on the table but he needs to give you the time and space to work through it. That way you can get rid of him faster. Once he's gone and his name is off the lease you can tell him sorry but you have too great an amount of self respect to continue a relationship with a guy who has treated you the way he has, and if he has an ounce of self respect he'll accept that it's over and he'll stop begging you like a whiny child.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Plenty more and better men out there. Just wait.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

sorry but really glad you know and make your own decisions 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

browser said:


> Tell him that reconciliation is still on the table but he needs to give you the time and space to work through it. That way you can get rid of him faster. Once he's gone and his name is off the lease you can tell him sorry but you have too great an amount of self respect to continue a relationship with a guy who has treated you the way he has, and if he has an ounce of self respect he'll accept that it's over and he'll stop begging you like a whiny child.



I really like this advice! Just be aware that he is unlikely to respect your boundaries / needs (space and time) at first. You're going to have to be firm.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Reread the opening. Timeline doesn't make since. Seems this Kate-Mike happened the last week of Aug and ended last week of Oct when he left town. So does that mean he started having sex with Kate after you told him about dave? The odd times he "disappeared" was that only after you told him about Dave?

Either way, they are still jerk moves. Revenge if after is childish. Fake upset if before you told him. You may never quite know the truth. Knowing Kate, does "only 6 times" sound realistic for an eight week relationship?

New love interests is easily 3-7 times a week. The night I proposed to my wife was 5 times in a 9 hour period. We slept 4 hrs. Sex with someone that doesn't mean much results in little contact afterwards. Remember your fun time with Dave? You didn't think much about it after the vacation. (I wonder how Dave is doing? Etc) and he didn't think about you with "I love you. I miss you"

The daily texts and FaceTime/Skype after he left town AND after he said "just some woman" for 5 weeks is an emotional connection. Buying her jewelry, etc. 

From my experience and that of most guys. We don't say "I love you" unless we mean it. Don't buy momentos for FWB or NSA partners. That's how I busted my wife and things quickly went down hill and hit the fan when he got her a necklace. (It's been destroyed)

Transparent would be you deleting stuff off the phone or watch him. There is a lot you don't know because of deleted texts as it seems you only had a few minutes to read. And he could easily put those vids and pics in a vault type app. Everyone here knows that more has always happened. "It was only a kiss". "it was only a blow job", "it only happened 3 times" but really it was 3 times a week for 3 months. (It's not a lie... Still 3 times, right)

The idea to have him move (so you can consider him as an option), to give you space, then dump him and move out (so he's not bothering you) is excellent. If need be, threaten to file a restraining order to leave you alone. You have almost 7 years with this guy... Time to move on now.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Reread the opening. Timeline doesn't make since. Seems this Kate-Mike happened the last week of Aug and ended last week of Oct when he left town. So does that mean he started having sex with Kate after you told him about dave? The odd times he "disappeared" was that only after you told him about Dave?


This whole scenario is a bit confusing, I know. But basically he claims that he knew about Dave and I before I admitted it to him. He told me he found out mid August about Dave and I. Kate and Mike first hooked up the last weekend in August. I admitted what happened between Dave and I mid Sept. Accordingly to the timeline, Mike had been together with Kate on two separate occasions. Once at the end of August and the second she came over to his house on Monday (Labour Day) and spent the night.




TaDor said:


> Either way, they are still jerk moves. Revenge if after is childish. Fake upset if before you told him. You may never quite know the truth. Knowing Kate, does "only 6 times" sound realistic for an eight week relationship?


Kate and Mike do not live in the same city, they are about an hour away. They both lived with their parents too. So they planned to book hotel room during the weekend. The two last weekends in September is where they continued their sex sessions. I can confirm it wasn't the 9th and 16th because Kate had a wedding to attend and I recall speaking to them both throughout the weekend and the weekend of the 16th Mike and I also spent most of our time via Skype. However he did go MIA the last two weekends in September. The weekend of the 23rd, Mike told me they got a hotel room for 2 nights. Then the following weekend, they got a hotel room for one night. Then the last night they spent together was October 8th and spent most of the following day (Friday) together. He departed to the west coast Saturday afternoon (the next day).



TaDor said:


> New love interests is easily 3-7 times a week. The night I proposed to my wife was 5 times in a 9 hour period. We slept 4 hrs. Sex with someone that doesn't mean much results in little contact afterwards. Remember your fun time with Dave? You didn't think much about it after the vacation. (I wonder how Dave is doing? Etc) and he didn't think about you with "I love you. I miss you"


I just know the number of nights they spent. The number of sex sessions, I will never know that but can assume they were at it all the time during their hotel escapes. I agree, Dave and I barely spoke afterwards. What happened, happened and that was it. I



TaDor said:


> The daily texts and FaceTime/Skype after he left town AND after he said "just some woman" for 5 weeks is an emotional connection. Buying her jewelry, etc.
> 
> From my experience and that of most guys. We don't say "I love you" unless we mean it. Don't buy momentos for FWB or NSA partners. That's how I busted my wife and things quickly went down hill and hit the fan when he got her a necklace. (It's been destroyed)


Yes I agree that it was both Physical and Emotional. He told me that he like that affection he was getting from her. She paid attention to him. She made him feel important. He told me he was desperate and she was the only girl around to give him what he needed from a woman. He told me that in regards to the 'I love you', that he got caught up in the whole moment with her. He also knew her well as she was my best friend and he did grow close to her for the last 5 years as a friend. Mike is a man that doesn't really like to ***k around. He gets attached. I think that he did get attached to her. He told me that during his time with Kate, he did think about the possibility of actually dating her but then he told me that just couldnt because of the type of woman she is. Its not a secret that this woman is a w****. She is proud of it. Talks about how many men have banged her (multiple men at once), where, and details. She really has no shame. She's not the type of girl you take home to your parents. Shes the one you may have fun with and thats it. As for the necklace, yes I cant wrap my head about that one either. He said they were walking in the mall past a kiosk and she was looking at them. Then he said "pick one and ill buy it for you". Thats how it went down. I dont know. Its weird. Even his own mother thinks his actions are weird. Kate begged him not to come to the west coast to be with me. She asked him to stay there. He told her he couldnt and that he wanted to started a life with me. 
Actions are so messed up. Some people are just ***ked up.



TaDor said:


> Transparent would be you deleting stuff off the phone or watch him. There is a lot you don't know because of deleted texts as it seems you only had a few minutes to read. And he could easily put those vids and pics in a vault type app. Everyone here knows that more has always happened. "It was only a kiss". "it was only a blow job", "it only happened 3 times" but really it was 3 times a week for 3 months. (It's not a lie... Still 3 times, right)


He did delete the messages off the phone in front of me. He told me he would go through the photos to ensure there is nothing left. Mike is really NOT tech savvy at all. Believe me. While I am pretty tech savvy so I know the tricks. I am 100% he does not even know about a vault type of apps. I can go through his phone whenever I want now. To this degree, I believe him. However, I also believe Kate has photos of them two and is probably showing it to anyone who will listen. That alone makes me frustrated.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

I have made a .BAK file from his Android but for the life of me I cannot extract or open the file with any programs I have tried. I would love to see the deleted text between them.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Honestly....STOP you chose its over RIGHT? 

you cannot get over this betrayal RIGHT? 

....If yes, STOP! 

Kate the *****.... Yes, My OW kate was also a *****. LET HER BE WHO SHE IS. Let mike go to her. His LOVE. I don't care if he got caught up in the moment... He said he loved her. What did he lie? To her? What about his love for you? Thats a LIE. 

This guys sounds BOTH stupid and immature. 
hE WANTED kate, and DAVE gave him the excuse he wanted to **** Kate. Sure he probably has SOME moral fiber, but learning about YOU AND DAVE WHILE NOT TOGETHER was his perfect FLIMSY EXCUSE to cheat on you. You can't build a future on that foundation. Glad he knows what he wants now, but he blew up the relationship before i knew what he wanted. 
TOO FLUCKING BAD.... 

Get him OUT NOW. I MEAN THIS WEEK. move on. I see post after post where you learn more and more, and is it really answering the questions? or is it making MORE questions. 

The only questions you need to ask is. 

CAN I GET OVER THIS. You have said no. 
HOW FAST CAN I GET HIM AND THIS TRAMP OUT OF MY LIFE? the answer to that is NOW. you can get them out of your life by tomorrow. You just got to not care about hurting him or making his life hard in the process....because honey, he did not think about you and how hard your life will be made...not one single IOTA.

MIKE IS A WEAK STUPID PIG.... 
Kate does what she does best...and that does not amount to much. She begged for Mike to not leave her... Let them have each other. TheY deserve it.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

heartbroken_ said:


> He did delete the messages off the phone in front of me. He told me he would go through the photos to ensure there is nothing left. Mike is really NOT tech savvy at all. Believe me. While I am pretty tech savvy so I know the tricks. I am 100% he does not even know about a vault type of apps. I can go through his phone whenever I want now. To this degree, I believe him. However, I also believe Kate has photos of them two and is probably showing it to anyone who will listen. That alone makes me frustrated.


Listening to you state all the things you're doing to try to make this reconciliation work is frustrating too.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

How we can recommend to help you further is for you to decide, once and for all...

Keep Mike?
Dump Mike?

Okay, seems he decided he needed to have sex with a friend because you HAD sex with a friend. Very immature. That is a bit worse than if HE was having sex with her before you told him about it (as you two were already in a LD relationship for a few months)
You didn't do a single thing wrong, period. He cheated on you for many childish reasons. Not mature enough for you or for children. 

An hour away? (Whatever - I drove 45min each way when I dated my wife. So did the POSOM after I kicked her out) My home > Her home > Club/date > My home > her home. 

PS: When I was a "player" - I never pretended to offer more that what I said. NSA... when I meet or socialized with women I considered GF material - I didn't try NSA and I considered them for the future when I was ready. (I dated 2 women like that ~ I approached them WHEN I was ready/wanting a girlfriend).


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I think it's fine for you to vacillate between letting him go and having doubts. It's normal. You're still processing this whole sordid thing and it involves your friend and BF and a LTR and relocation. You're probably a good person and wouldn't act the way Mike has so you want to be sure.

Keep posting. Let us get frustrated - it's our nature when we've got your back. Don't let that stop you from processing this and using us as a sounding board. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts is right... those of us who have been betrayed - spend weeks or months going through that hell. In a matter of 5 minutes, you can go from HATING them, wanting them back, Why they did this, depressed, Love them, angry again, etc. It rips your brain and heart apart. But I think it's much MUCH worse when after you're married and have kids. (Remember, he wasn't even going to tell - ever or until a kid or two!) And having children *IS* actually a major marriage stressor. You'll lose some intimacy and romance (sex) time.

I do love my wayward, my ex-wife with all my heart again. But we both went to therapy, reading and working together rebuild trust. Even today, with much improvement of a possible future than before the cheating - there *IS* a large crack and I'm not "there" yet. Before the affair, I never thought she could do such a thing. I don't think I could, I never thought of replacing her until that happened - and that thought hasn't gone away yet and I don't like it. Being with my "Wife" and son at home and going out as a family is our happiness, we now know there are challenges in life. I enjoy watching her having fun with our son together and hope she feels the same. Since you don't even have a marriage proposal... I feel you don't have much to fight for. Breaking up with him forever, COULD be a life-lesson that he needs to grow up. He hasn't really lost much either, and was way too childish to cheat on you for idiotic reasons because he was thinking of himself and would likely justify doing it again to you in the future if you hurt his ego or some other co-worker strokes his.

If you move past Mike...
You need to date, and meet guys who are husband material. Date many guys to get experience under your belt. ie: don't spend 6 months dating just one guy at a time. Mature men DO NOT have expectations that their date *IS* exclusive. Just as YOU shouldn't assume they are either, nor demand it. It took 2 dates for me to get serious with my wife, within a week or so - I was no longer available to other women.

I've been with women who married their 1st or 2nd man and divorced out of 10yr bad marriages. So I've been a #3 or #2 guy a few times. I've smoked their EX's in the bedroom and respect for them as human beings. You need to try expanding your palette... there are a lot of jerks and pervs you have to wade through.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@TaDor makes a case for sampling the pool of available guys until you find a good match. A lot of people advise that.

If that works for you then maybe do that.

But a lot of people aren't samplers in life. I couldn't do that because I wouldn't date someone more than once or twice if there wasn't a connection, and if there was, I'd want to get to know them deeper. So I would stop dating at that point and start the process of vetting that person. Pretty quickly I'd want the dating to be exclusive and if she didn't agree I'd move on. I personally wouldn't waste my time "sort of" dating multiple people or with someone who would have me in a stable of men. But I agree you should talk about that and don't assume the other person has the same assumptions.

But I'd also guard my self and be willing to move on if I found my partner wasn't flexible in dealing with differences. I don't think 2 people have to be fully comparable - that's boring - but I do believe you have to find someone who will accommodate you and that you're willing to accommodate. That's how you grow together as a couple.

So think about your nature and what the pool of candidates looks like for you. Go in with your eyes open and don't accept a partner who isn't willing to put you first. Sample and don't get serious if that's your nature, or take more time and vet guys one by one if that suits you. 

But the main thing you should realize is you have options and many paths to a happy partnership for yourself. Don't think you have to fix this broken situation. 

You were dating and found out about your BF's character. It's not a bad think to judge that someone's character is below your standard. On another thread I'm getting a lot of grief for openly saying it's my responsibility to judge the character of the people I chose to associate with. I'm being called self-righteous for making judgements. Don't fall into the politically correct trap of equivocating and making excuses for Mike. A strong person is willing and able to make personal judgements. That's what I was taught but the "everyone is equal and I shouldn't judge" philosophy that many have adopted is just a weak excuse to avoid conflict and critical thinking. Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

TaDor said:


> TheTruthHurts is right... those of us who have been betrayed - spend weeks or months going through that hell. In a matter of 5 minutes, you can go from HATING them, wanting them back, Why they did this, depressed, Love them, angry again, etc. It rips your brain and heart apart.


WOW @TaDor thank you, I feel like you hit the nail on the head with this comment. This mess of a situation is the worse roller coaster I have ever been on and I want off! I know what I have to do and what I need to do for my sanity and just self-respect. I understand that I didn't deserve this, not even one bit. Its just emotionally....tough. Its one of those things where I think "it wasn't suppose to end like this". As each day passes though, I feel less victimized and more accepting of my reality. (to some degree anyway)



TaDor said:


> Since you don't even have a marriage proposal... I feel you don't have much to fight for. Breaking up with him forever, COULD be a life-lesson that he needs to grow up. He hasn't really lost much either, and was way too childish to cheat on you for idiotic reasons because he was thinking of himself and would likely justify doing it again to you in the future if you hurt his ego or some other co-worker strokes his.


I 100% agree with your statement. I do strongly believe that he will be crushed once we officially split and no longer have any contact with eachother. However I do believe that he may become a better man for the next woman in his life. I am his life-lesson.


I haven't told too many people yet because I feel a bit embarrassed, I guess. Kate and I were really close and although some of my friends didn't get a good vibe from her, I always stuck up for her and kept her disgusting secrets. And with Mike, everyone knew how excited I was for him to move here (finally) so we can start a family. So its a bit devastating to go from one extreme to the next. I am slowly coming out and telling my story to my friends. (SLOWLY)

So last night, I was with a gf who had no idea what was going on. She knew Mike moved here and that was about it. We met up and I started to tell her the story from the beginning. Started with how Mike told me about a 'girl' he was seeing and didn't reveal it was Kate until the end. She started crying for me which of course made me cry. Her reaction affected me because I have known this woman for almost 20 years and she really knows me so well. She said things like "you are the LEAST person in the world to deserve this... you are so good, so honest, so loyal..." She was mad at me for not coming to her sooner and told me she would have been there for me since day one. She agreed that a double betrayal is one of the worst things that a person could experience. She completely understood me, what I was going through and how it destroyed me for sometime. Although she didn't go through it herself but she did have a similar friend who was a ***** and tried hitting on her man. She cut her off out of their lives before any damage was done. But she told me she had nightmares and thoughts of what could have happened between them which really upset her for some time. 

She was so disgusted by Mike and Kate and just how little they thought of me to screw me over like this. She kept telling me that Mike doesn't deserve a woman like me. He deserves a woman like her. And I think thats true.

As I retold the story and told her about my conversion with Kate over the phone, I remember Kate defending her actions with Mike by telling me "Like OMG you slept with Dave so you have nothing to be mad about" and just recalling that as HER defensive, infuriated me. How in the world does me sleeping with Dave make it okay for her to do what she did with Mike?? She is a stupid human being if she thinks that would justify her actions. She had nothing to do with Dave. They arent even friends. What a moron.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

heartbroken_ said:


> As I retold the story and told her about my conversion with Kate over the phone, I remember Kate defending her actions with Mike by telling me "Like OMG you slept with Dave so you have nothing to be mad about" and just recalling that as HER defensive, infuriated me. How in the world does me sleeping with Dave make it okay for her to do what she did with Mike?? She is a stupid human being if she thinks that would justify her actions. She had nothing to do with Dave. They arent even friends. What a moron.


I'm no therapist but I think you'd be better off refocusing your thoughts on more productive topics.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Great that you have support with a good close friend... Start the project to get Mike out of your life. Kate seems just as stupid with the justification.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

browser said:


> I'm no therapist but I think you'd be better off refocusing your thoughts on more productive topics.


I turned to another supportive friend that had no idea what was going on with Mike and I. Of course I had to rehash the entire situation again and of course I get emotional about it. Although I would like to talk about other topics, which we do, this is something that has taken over my life and I am trying to come out of it. Please remember its only been one month and 5 days since DDAY. And to be honest, I feel that I am doing way better then I thought I would be. 

I am sure as more time passes there will be other topics that will be spoken on besides this one.


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## heartbroken_ (Dec 4, 2016)

I haven't spoke to Kate since DDay and I never plan to. She is DEAD for me. So I just wanted to clear that up for those who have commented to get her out of my life. She is already out of my life. Unfortunately we do have several mutual friends and they tell me what she tells them which is that she is basically defending herself in this situation, throws Mike under the bus and claims to be just as much as a victim as I am. Which is ridiculous because she has done this in the past to other people and she enjoys the game of going after 'taken' men in hopes that they would choose her over their woman. Shes a pathetic individual. She honestly needs to own what she did instead of trying to be a victim. But whatever she is helpless and will always be. 

In regards to Mike, I have made the decision to let him go and please excuse me if I seem emotional about it. Although I am firm and know that I need to let him go I have a small bit of me that is sad about that fact and I second guess myself. After all, I am just human and loved him more than words could describe. In the last couple of days I have been feeling way better but I get scared that these just may be 'good' days but I am hoping that this is just how it is for me now. I think that the reason I feel a bit better is because I am really trying to ACCEPT what happened and I think that I have finally accepted it for what it is. Or working on trying to accept it anyway. 

Since DDAY I had wished for this and that or what could I have been done or how I wish I could go back in time and tell him not to come to west coast or whatever. And it was killing me. Then when I started really thinking about trying to forgive Mike and thinking if I could actually forgive him and move pass this, I would literally be haunted with sexual images of Mike and Kate and I would obsess in the timeline in which they were together. I would go into my phone and look at my call logs and messages where he would go MIA and I would beat myself up so much about how stupid I was to believe him where I knew in those moments that something was up but I refused to follow my gut feeling and instead decided to believe him in whatever excuse he made up for disappearing. I was an idiot to believe him and I get really hard on myself for that. Then of course these thoughts would only bring me misery. So I found that when I debated with myself and tried to determine if I could R with Mike and move on.... that is what makes me miserable and depressed.

So finally I have come to the conclusion that the only way I will ever be happy is to let Mike go. I cannot forgive him. He doesnt deserve forgiveness. And since I have been really focusing on letting Mike go versus thinking about R and since I shifted my thinking this way, I have been feeling a little bit. I have literally spoken to myself and repeated things like 'I no longer love you Mike'. And its been helping me in letting him go. 

I spoke to Mike last night and I really told him that its done. There is no hope anymore. I told him that I will be moving on with my life and so should he. I left out my emotions and really laid the cards on the table. I feel that Mike was hoping that I would eventually get over it and forgive him but I think he may finally understand now. Although to be honest, I sensed a bit of hope from his part. He too is remorseful and I see that now. He told me this was the biggest mistake in his life and he cant believe he did what he did and now he is losing me. I told him to take this situation as a learning opportunity as he moves on with his life. I told him there is zero chance of us R because the damage was too great. He agreed and told me that I didn't deserve this and he is truly sorry and wants me to be happy. And truth be told, he can no longer make me happy no matter what he said or did. His actions will always define him in my mind and that of course is not attractive.

I guess this is it. I will keep focusing on 'accepting' the situation because I cannot be miserable and depressed anymore. I hate feeling sorry for myself. I will move on with my life without Mike.

Thank you everyone for your support. 

I wonder where my life will be this time next year. Here is to a better 2017.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Its really good that you seem so sure now what the path needs to be. Good luck.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Keep posting. You're doing great. You will have self doubts and your friends will bring it up or remind you. That's ok. Keep moving forward. And post if you need to vent.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The biggest thing I've noticed that occurs to betrayed people is the loss of control. One day you feel like you have life figured out and you have a handle on things and the next instant, someone ELSE has changed YOUR plans. It's very unsettling and the thing most people seem to need to do is regain some of that control, through knowing the truth or by getting their regularity back. But it's often a kneejerk, emotional reaction, not necessarily in your best interests.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

turnera said:


> The biggest thing I've noticed that occurs to betrayed people is the loss of control. One day you feel like you have life figured out and you have a handle on things and the next instant, someone ELSE has changed YOUR plans. It's very unsettling and the thing most people seem to need to do is regain some of that control, through knowing the truth or by getting their regularity back. But it's often a kneejerk, emotional reaction, not necessarily in your best interests.




Well I think you're right @turnera. But the point is you really don't have control in life of many things you think you do. Like the line in Men In Black where "K" explains why no one discloses all the aliens around us: "(people) are happy. They think they have a good bead on things."

When you realize the image of stability and character of people around you is NOT what you though, it's normal to question all of your assumptions and assessments.

I wasn't betrayed but was diagnosed with cancer. And that upends your world the same way. All my plans and ambitions and thoughts about who I was, what I wanted, where I thought I'd be in the future went "poof".

It takes time but ultimately I found it freeing to realize I'm alone in this world and the future is an illusion. The present and all the frustrations and challenges also aren't that bad anymore. A lot of it just doesn't matter. I work hard when I want to because I like to accomplish things and I find work interesting. But that's about it. I enjoy my family. Things like that.

So I suspect OP will adjust and there will be fallout, but having a clearer picture of what you know and don't know, and control and don't control, isn't a bad thing.


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