# Was this a fitness test?



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm new to the idea of fitness tests. I wish I understood this stuff earlier - everything makes so much more sense now. It's like I wasn't noticing that she was inviting me to display my value and I was running away from that opportunity out of fear of upsetting her. 


Anyway, this happened last night:

I finish a football practice at 9 PM.
(I'm playing in a charity football game - full pads, tackle - for my professional school.) 
Now, I run track and lift weights 5-6 days a week already, but the type of movement I have to make in football is different, and it really aggravated some old knee pain.

So, I get over to the GF's house and tell her to get ready for me to give her a massage. 
I give her somewhere in the area of 5 massages a week. Sometime's it's a prelude to lovemaking, sometimes it's not. She's got a bad neck and it makes her feel a lot better. I generally spend about 30 minutes per massage. 


She immediately, and somewhat playfully, says "Are you just doing this so you can get a massage on your knee in return?" 
(I had requested - and received - a knee massage the day before)

I replied "Partly, and partly because I enjoy giving you massages." 

She responds "Well, lie down. I'll just give you a knee massage first and get it over with."

I'm a little surprised by this but hop on the bed. She gets to work around the knee. After about a minute - 

Her: "I don't like you playing football."
Me: "Why not? You asked me to do it."
Her: " Because I really don't like doing this."

So I'm really weirded out and say "Well, just stop if it bothers you."

Her: "No, I don't like doing it but I like making you feel better. Besides, it'll only have to be for a few more minutes."


Was this a (conscious or unconscious) effort to see if I'd acquiesce in her request to be merely a massage-giver and never a massage-receiver? It's such minimal effort, especially in comparison to the hours a week I devote solely to her pleasure, that I can't even conceive of it actually being annoying enough to her to voice her displeasure for the 'work' required.


Some of you guys are really good at picking out what's really going on in interactions and in seeing the deeper messages being sent. I'd like some help because I want to be able to get a feel for this too. 

And then - how does one answer this best? Calmly, and in an 'understanding' voice, saying "Well, stop if you don't like doing it" seems, in retrospect, really weak. Like I'm telling her "Be selfish."


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

If it was a fitness test you failed/

Passing would have involved stopping her from giving you the massage and going on your merry way
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

To my mind, it's always best to deal with the ridiculous by being more ridiculous.

You: "Oh ... then skip the knee massage and I'll take a blowjob. That will make me feel MUCH better." 
Said with a big grin.

You:"On the scale of what you don't like doing, where exactly does rubbing my knee for a few minutes fit in?"

You: "I'm glad we can be open like this. Because that little thing that your nose does when you smile? Yeah ... I don't like that at all."

Embellish the absurd, or utterly ignore it.

In woman-speak ... I would guess that her comment was completely unrelated to what she was doing, and something else was on her mind. Don't even attempt to go looking for whatever 'it' is.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks, Deej. 

I was much better at that sort of thing before I really liked her. It's probably one of the reasons she starting like me in the first place. Need to revive that part of myself.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Try and put it into context. She asked you to play football. You complied with that. Now she’s asked you not to play football. Her reason/excuse is she doesn’t like massaging your knee.

In the overall scheme of things 10 minutes doing something she doesn’t like doing shouldn’t be any kind of deal, let alone a big one. So it’s not that which is the issue.






The issue is that she is controlling you. That’s the issue. Or at least that’s what she’s “trying” to do. And you have to break that. You must by your actions, not your words, let her know in no uncertain terms you will not be controlled.

I believe this is really BIG stuff in a marriage. It’s where a man stays a man or he becomes a lapdog or doormat.

What would I do? It depends a lot on the football team. If I thought they’d get along fine without me I’d make my excuses and drop out. I wouldn’t tell my gf, she’d only find out because I didn’t go to the next session. It’s a big “You don’t control me” message. I’d also ask myself how much mileage is there with such a controlling woman who can’t even be bothered to take 10 minutes out to take care of me. She sounds very self-centred.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Maybe what she said first about not liking you playing football (and getting hurt) is really the truth, and it's not about a knee massage at all.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

That's a thought, Enchantment. 
Before I go to practice, she usually says "Don't break anything."

I played minor league football for a few years after college and had to get surgery on my shoulders because of injuries sustained then. She's aware of this. She pushed me to play in the game this year after repeatedly asking if I thought my shoulders could hold up in it. It's been some years since the surgery and I think I'll be fine. 

I'm not sure if she wanted me to do it because she knows I love the game or because she thinks I'll do well in it and up my value in the school. 

I do love her, but she has a tendency to be rather self-centered, so I think some of the latter may be in play.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

^^ Ah, well - it's all just speculation on our parts since we don't know you guys at all. 

Any reason why you can't actually, you know, talk about this together and find out how you really both feel?

I'm sure I'm just projecting - my H is a huge sports nut and has been on any number of intramural teams. And he was always getting hurt - which I did not like. I always worried about him getting hurt. But, I pretty much let him decide when enough was enough.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I avoid "talks" about feelings like the plague. She generally gets very emotional during "talks" and these emotions tend towards anger or accusations. 

The fact that I now avoid making my feelings known is probably an indication that these "talks" in the past were also fitness tests, to some degree, that I failed.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Deejo said:


> To my mind, it's always best to deal with the ridiculous by being more ridiculous.


My problem is that I often think of the rediculous reply ten minutes after its needed. So, I stick with the logical reply instead, "So, if massages are a problem to you, we'll take them off the table indefinately! Both ways."

While the football part was maybe part of a fitness test, it seems like that your concern over her pain, and giving her massages was likely attributed by her to a selfish attempt to get something in return. Over time, interjecting negative assumptions about your motives can become habitual if you don't actively work on communication. Something as simple as occasionally telling her that you are massaging her because you feel bad about her pain could seem unnecessary, but it helps to build a relationship where both of you try to see the best motives in each other's actions.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks, Halien. 

I have thought about that. I was hoping that the sheer number of massages I've given - for about a year and a half, well before I started playing football (this week) - would act as a sort of presumption against this attribution of selfish motives to me.

But, I realize that her previous experiences with men may color her attitude more than my previous actions have.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

SoWhat said:


> Thanks, Halien.
> 
> I have thought about that. I was hoping that the sheer number of massages I've given - for about a year and a half, well before I started playing football (this week) - would act as a sort of presumption against this attribution of selfish motives to me.
> 
> But, I realize that her previous experiences with men may color her attitude more than my previous actions have.


I think it is completely normal for us to gradually take things for granted, or at least begin assuming some negative intentions where none actually are. Maybe there are areas where you are not quite as focused on listening, or doing something that is important to her. I think these negatives can creep into other actions, where we don't communicate our motives from time to time.

Not quite the same, but I experienced a situation where it was documented. Ten years ago, I worked in the startup of a new operations facility, with hundreds of new employees. My company has a set of values statements that we are expected to live and breathe, as managers. Our shareholders largely invest for this reason. Most of the people had never worked in a place that was so comfortable, and for a company that had industry leading benefits. So, it wasn't surprising that when it came time for the employees to complete their annual survey on how well their managers and the company take care of them, this place scored well above the other employees world wide. Nearly a perfect score. Five years later, under the same environments, it scored exactly the same as the sites that had been there for dozens of years, with the same complaints that the company did not look out for the well being of its employees. In the comments section, some employees came up with wild theories of how we were taking advantage of them. I was one of the leaders, so I was aware of why we did what we did. Additionally, a recent survey showed that their pay was still in the top 10% for the industry, and their benefits package was unmatched in north america for the industry. 

We instituted a simple new strategy. Started communicating what we were doing to keep their salary competitive, to keep the working conditions positive, and to listen and act on their complaints. Nothing changed, other than telling them what we were doing. Scores went dramatically higher.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Very helpful analogy. Thank you.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

AFEH said:


> I’d also ask myself how much mileage is there with such a controlling woman who can’t even be bothered to take 10 minutes out to take care of me. She sounds very self-centred.


:iagree:

In the end, it does not matter whether you were being tested for response, or whether she is trying to control you, or some other factor is at play.

What DOES matter is that she's yanking your chain. Start doing XYZ because I want you to. Stop doing XYZ because now I don't want you to. She gets a rise out of screwing with you.

You say you aren't married to this person. That makes taking a hard line easy. Next time you tell her under those circumstances you want zero from her. You can do just fine without the massage (implying "or without the massage from her").

Also, tell her you won't be with anyone who would attempt to manipulate you in this manner - and mean it. If she's looking for a sign of strength from you, then you've given it. If she decides to push harder, you have all you need to know about her.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SoWhat said:


> I avoid "talks" about feelings like the plague. She generally gets very emotional during "talks" and these emotions tend towards anger or accusations.
> 
> The fact that I now avoid making my feelings known is probably an indication that these "talks" in the past were also fitness tests, to some degree, that I failed.


Avoiding talking about feelings is a MASSIVE red flag. Essentially it means you are rug sweeping and the issues between the two of you are being hidden and suppressed. That is really very very bad. You are being two faced and dishonest by not confronting the issues you have. And you are being cowardly. You have to confront and resolve the issues between you otherwise all you will be is resentful. You probably are already.


Look to yourself and do not put all the blame on yourself. You have a gf who gets angry and falsely accuses you when you try and have adult conversations about your feelings? What she’s doing is stonewalling, blame shifting/scapegoating and denying ANY responsibility for the problems between the two of you. That’s another MASSIVE red flag and it’s down to her, it is NOT down to you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SW,
Most of the time (80% or higher) in a LTR a womans sex drive drops off much more rapidly than her male partners. 

When that happens you rapidly discover how much of her core behavior is motivated by:
1. A strong desire not to disappoint, distress and deprioritize you sexually
2. A genuine desire to please you. And a sincere enjoyment that comes from pleasing you

Lacking those two drivers, you are mostly at the "whim" of her raw sex drive - which for any healthy/high libido man - is a train wreck because over the long haul her drive is going to drop WAY more than yours. 

What you have to recognize about this type of fitness test is that there are two ways you can pass it:
1. Very tactfully but firmly moving her more and more to a place mentally where she understands that the relationship is not viable to you if she is unable to feel a DESIRE to reciprocate
2. Accepting that, if despite your best efforts, you cannot do that, you might be happier with someone less selfish






SoWhat said:


> I'm new to the idea of fitness tests. I wish I understood this stuff earlier - everything makes so much more sense now. It's like I wasn't noticing that she was inviting me to display my value and I was running away from that opportunity out of fear of upsetting her.
> 
> 
> Anyway, this happened last night:
> ...


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## applelemon (Jan 17, 2012)

SoWhat said:


> Her: "I don't like you playing football."
> Me: "Why not? You asked me to do it."
> Her: " Because I really don't like doing this."
> 
> ...


Just dropping a femals perspective here... I don't think it was a fitness test as much as it was her just wanting to get over your knee massage part and receive her massage. This is my thought, but I think she likes the neck massage, but she doesn't want to feel guilty about your knee pain and not receiving a massage. She did your massage to get it over first so she can receive her massage and not have to give you one afterwards. But while at it, she mentioned that she doesn't like to give you knee massages. Yes, it may sound selfish of her but I guess she's not really the massage giving type. I know some people who just don't like giving massages.


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