# help with suspicions



## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

I have written a list of things that make me think my partner of 9 year, and father to our 2 children, may be hiding something from me. What do you think I should do with this?

Up until this point in our relationship I have never had any doubts about trusting him and I am 100% faithful in our relationship. I am struggling to believe that the man i love would ever do this to me. I have confronted him about most of these point and he can explain away them all

Its import for you to know that he runs a pub and it is common for drinkers to still be there at 2/3/4 am esp on weekends. 

Things that make me suspicious:
*after 2 weeks of coming home past 5am every night, I find him passed out in bed with the barmaid while his phone was turned off
*he never leaves his phone lying around, even when it doesn’t make sense for him to remove it from the charger eg take it with him to iron a shirt, 
*he got upset when I wanted to use it to send a text
*he told me (out of the blue) that he had started deleting his sent texts to see if that helped with a technical problem he was having with his phone
*he keeps his phone on silent and/or turns it off when at home
*He still regularly comes home after 4.30/5am – but if I am out with him we are always home early
*he doesn’t like me coming to the pub, doesn’t invite me to works night out
*he refuses to fire barmaid, or ask her to move out
*I found emails that barmaid had ‘poked’ him many times on fb, so therefore he also poked her back
*There is a sent message on his fb to the barmaid about 2 weeks before I found them in bed that says ‘we need to talk asap’
*he gives her lifts, even after telling me he couldn’t look her in the eye as he was embarrased that he fell asleep drunk in her bed and I found him (but was fine to be alone with her in the car!)
*I only found out about the lifts because he was seen, and the time he told me about it he was also seen
*he very rarely calls or texts me when he’s at work
*he often doesn’t reply to my calls or texts
*the gossip in the pub is that there is something going on between them
*when I asked him if he fancied her he hesitated and didn’t say ‘no’ right away
*all of his friends have cheated on the partner, is he the only one that stays faithful?

Things that make me feel safe: 
*he is affectionate and we still make love 
*we are best friends, and have always been close
*He has opened his emails and facebook while I’ve been able to see the screen 
*he knows that i know his passwords to email acc and facebook
*he has called the barmaid on work related matter while in the same room as me
*after finding them in bed he has made a big effort to reduce his hours and spend more time with me
*he loves me and has a lot to lose 
*he is a good man, and I can’t believe that he would hurt me this way
*he trusts me and knows I would never cheat on him – even after everything that has happened
*our relationship is good and strong – we communicate well and argue fairly, we both admit when we are wrong and we both consider the other persons feelings
*I can’t see a reason for him to need to find affection/sex outside of our relationship – things were going really well between us just before and in the beginning of him getting the pub. We were happy


I know that if i was looking at the lists above I would most likely think the poster was an idiot for thinking anything apart from an affair. So I'm not really asking you all if he is cheating, only he knows that, but rather what should I do?

I really don't have the inclination or time, money etc to snoop on him - i don't want to drive myself crazy. The main think that I haven't confonted him about is his phone. If i ask him about it either he will be upset that I don't trust him or he will know I'm on to him and cover his tracks better.

what should I do?


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

I forgot to say that when i found him with the barmaid he was clearly VERY drunk and they were both fully clothed. I believed him when he said that he had gotten really drunk and just passed out on her bed bacause it was the only one that was empty (she rents a room above the pub, as do a couple of other members of staff) 

This was the beginnings of my suspicions


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

You know he is cheating. Fire the wench. Look at the money. Phone records. How can he protest that you don't trust him when his behaviour is so suspicious? Would he trust you if tables were turned?

Fire the girl. Ask her to move. Or this won't go away.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

ok. rule number one. no more drinking at work. period. see how he reacts to that one

but honestly..clothed or not..why was he up in her room...why not in a male staff members room. I think if you are not willing to do some investigating..then you need to let him know that he will come STRAIGHT home from work.


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

clip.. did I miss that he was the boss?? if so. then YA ditto. FIRE THE WENCH


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

ahhh yes. running the pub. re read..
fire her. now


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

Of course that is what i said, he said that he can't fire her because she hasn't done anything wrong. He feel asleep in her bed, it was his fault not hers  

Should I confront him with my suspicions? I don't feel like i 'know' that he is cheating, about 95% of me thinks that he would NEVER do this to me


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

What do you want to do? I mean everyone is different. For me the behavior alone (excessive drinking and passing out in some woman's bed) is a dealbreaker for others not so much. I woudn't care if he was cheating or not the other stuff is bad enough. 

Either way I'm sorry you are going through this.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Talk to your business lawyer before you or he decide she cannot be fired. What about the living arrangements? 

Look, cheaters always have excuses and reasons. Good men do not end up in another woman's bed. And they don't drink all night with them, either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

Thank you  

I really don't know. He is a really good man and up until now we had a really solid realtionship, plus we have two lovely kids together. I am scared to throw all that away with out proof, what if I am wrong and he is telling the truth - I have no money to hire a PI or get spyware for his phone etc. 

I think i might write him a letter outlining why i am suspicious of him and telling him what i need him to do to save our relationship ie No drinking, get rid of the barmaid. get out of the pub as soon as he can pay the debts off (he has already said off his own back that he will pull out of the pub as soon as he can because it is effecting our realtionship so badly)

I don't know  perhaps my not trusting him is the issue?


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Read White Rabbit's thread, What is Wrong With Me.

Business owners seem to be prey to unscrupulous women. And they lap it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

I've scanned the thread you mentioned and I get your point.

I HAVE become clingy and weepy and pathetic - I have recognised this in myself and blamed myself.

I am going to write him a letter outlining what my suspicions are and what i need him to do. If he cannot do them me and the kids are out. I am a strong attractive intellegent woman and if he doesn't love me enough to put thing right then that is his loss!


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Do your homework first. Don't be hasty. Patience.

Phone records and finances. 
Unfortunately a VAR won't likely help you. Keylogger might.

Don't do anything to tip your hand.

I know it is hard. But you've lasted this long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

I don't have access to our phone records or our finances. I don't think a keylogger would help as they see each other enough not to need to email etc


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Do the Keylogger anyway. Affairs require a lot more reassurance and therefore more contact.
Why no access to records? What are property laws where you are?

If you can't go through his paper records at home, then ask him to turn them over for at least 6 months before she was hired. You need baseline normal to be able to see abnormal. no threats to him until you have more info. So credit card statements from personal accounts and bank accounts are good to review on your own.

My H and I have separate cards, but statements are sitting around.

Go through sent box in emails and Facebook if that works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Did not have to read beyond the first item on your list:

_*after 2 weeks of coming home past 5am every night, I find him passed out in bed with the barmaid while his phone was turned off_

What else is there to know? You found him in bed with another woman.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Jelly summed it up, sadly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

You've listed 17 specific reasons other than "your gut instinct" to believe something is going on (perhaps EA only, maybe more...) -- and you basically defend the reasons why not as "he's a good guy and I trust him".

I say you already know better, but need to trust your own spidey sense more than what blind faith can offer you.

Think of it this way: If you found 5 or 6 months from now that there WAS something going on... regardless of whether it escalated or died out... would you not kick yourself for waiting silently during this time? Confronting him with it all does not need to mean the marriage is over -- but it WILL mean you're viewed and treated as an equal partner moving forward.


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

You are all right!

It has taken me three months and many, many tears (and on the plus side 10lb!) to come to this conclusion.

I have confrunted him about his sneakyness with the phone and asked to see his phone records. He has agreed to this and we are going to go through them online when he get back today. 

When I spoke to him on the phone he was all nice "yes of course you can see my records I've nothing to hide" but I know he has online access to the records but he played dumb and said he needed to look into how to get them for me. So I told him "i just need you username and password, if you don't have them you can do this and this to get them for me today" 

He hung up and 10 mins later i got a text saying that I am welcome to look through his phone records but its obvious i don't trust him so after I've seen theres nothing going on then we are over! 

I've gotten to a point now where I saw straight through this - he's obviously paniced and trying to get out of my seeing them.

I text back that I agree that we shouldn't be together if we don't trust each other, this will settle the issue, if he can't be with me after doing this then thats the way it will have to be

He was just on his way out when I got home and he agreed to go through them with me tonight. I asked to go through them while he was out but he said he wanted to be there. I think this means he is worried what will show up and wants to be there to explain himself.

What should I be looking for? I'm thinking lots of texts and calls to this girls and long phone calls to her. Any pointers?


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

He has just text me to day he has contacted the phone company and has the password he needs for us to look at them tonight!

I feel sick!


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I'd guess he's delaying so he can have a look first and have his story straight -- even if there IS nothing to hide. You're looking for every and any number that comes up repeatedly to be explained... not just what you know to be "her" number. People have multiple phones (btw -- ask him if he's got another phone... many cheaters have disposable/cash-only phones for their side activities). Anything that looks suspicious that he explains as "oh that's a work partner" or "a friend" - have him dial and confirm who answers.

Also: this is not a "phone records review" discussion. This is a future of your marriage" discussion, about everything you originally posted. Going through phone records is but one of the major topics... good luck to you!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

In many states, you don't need a reason to fire an employee. BUT, he's probably looking at a sexual harassment lawsuit if he does.

You have enough "proof". I'd suggest that you see a lawyer because if you are any part of that business, you're in for as much hurt (probably more) than he is.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

Print them out so he can't prevent you from reviewing on your own later.

But he either won't come home tonight or he will make up an excuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Did not have to read beyond the first item on your list:
> 
> _*after 2 weeks of coming home past 5am every night, I find him passed out in bed with the barmaid while his phone was turned off_
> 
> What else is there to know? You found him in bed with another woman.


Maybe all the other things make him guilty, but being in the same bed fully clothed doesn't on its own. 

I was once at a conference and had a bunch of people in my hotel room. People stayed late and I was having a work discussion with a woman. It got to be 4 o'clock in the morning and everyone was leaving. She asked if she could stay in my room, because she was in a different hotel and because it was so late. We slept for 4 hours or so on the same bed, fully clothed and didn't touch each other. It can be done. 

Biggest mistake I ever made was to tell my wife about this. She still doesn't believe that nothing happened.


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks for all your input.

So he did come home and we looked through the records. There were no suspicious calls to her, there were a few, which is to be expected but they were all short - which fits with them being work related.

However, I found them in bed in the beginning of march. In march he text her 297 times, and in april (his last bill) he text her 155 times! 

I think that that amount of texting along with the other suspicions I've listed are proof enough that something (an EA? PA?) happened.

He won't admit to anything, he agrees that it looks bad (!) he agrees that it's not apprpriate for a 32 yo married father of two to text a 19yo single girl that much. Whenever I ask him what the content of these texts are he is really vague with answers. I am willing to accept that some of them were work related but an average of 10 per day for a month is not possible if there is no affair. Also, i found out a while ago that they had been 'poking' each other on facebook, about 4 or 5 times aday over the span of 5 days. This was in the same month he sent her 300 texts! That month he sent me 40 texts!

I have explained that I want to work through this but I need HONESTY but he just says he can't admit to something that hasn't happened. He says that he deleted the texts (both incoming and outgoing) because I would get upset seeing her name in his phone. Of course I argued that if I saw msgs and they were innocent I would have no issue with them. It was only his sneakiness that lead to me asking to see the records in the first place.

I don't really know where to go from here. Since seeing his phone records I've been really upset and asking him for answers. He has been really patient, loving and understanding. He agrees that it looks bad and I am in no way at fault for not trusting him ... but still denys that anything has happened between them, he also insists that he has never wanted anything to happen and she hasn't ever made a pass at him. But today I am angry!

I don't know where to go from here, if he would just tell me the ****ing truth we could work past this

He has agreed to fire her and ask her to move out of the pub and delete her from facebook. He has also agreed to give up the pub asap (which will be in a few months at least) and cut his hours right back until then

Any input would be appreciated - I'm off to check out the thinking about separation forums x


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> Maybe all the other things make him guilty, but being in the same bed fully clothed doesn't on its own.


I agree, I believed at the time that nothing untoward had happened and if this was isolated I wouldn't be concerned


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

ishe? said:


> I don't know where to go from here, if he would just tell me the ****ing truth we could work past this
> x


Wow do I ever feel your pain. I am so sorry you're in it this way.

I believe you know in your gut that he's lying... but feels terrible, guilty, and will stop the activity.

FOR NOW.

Because he's scared of losing you, wants it to work, etc. etc.

FOR NOW.

Cheaters lie. In their mind, they're preventing further hurt to you, but they're wrong - and it's obviously self-serving. They do not want ot admit to what they've done. 

It took me 3 solid non-stop days & nights of constant talking to get the details I wanted admitted to by my wife. At first it was "only 2 or 3 times making out".... the truth is (at least!) that it was more than a dozen times, and her shirt was off, his pants were off... at first it was "just texting a lot"... the truth is, they had phone sex more than once. At first he was a welcome distraction who paid attention to her... truth is, she told him she was in love with him, wanted to hate him, but couldn't stop herself. And I STILL don't *know* that I have the full truth 

My point is -- if your gut (and the evidence of hundreds of texts, found in bed, phone off!) tells you there's more, don't buy it until your gut is satisfied you've gotten to the truth. Polygraph, maybe. Confront the OW with it... whatever it takes, because it WILL not go away on its own.


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## ishe? (Apr 1, 2011)

Thank you 2xloser, I'm sorry your going through this too

I know you're right, he is lying.

I think my only option is to leave. Then down the line if he comes clean we could think about a reconcilliation but I'm not sure I'll ever be able to trust him again. And I can't be in a relationship without trust


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

You know he is lying. But I would take him up on firing her. When is that going to happen? Tomorrow? Sounds about right to me. When does she move out? 30 days?
Does he delete any more texts? No. You will see if he.does by reviewing the record. She is to have no contact with him anew vice versa. He is to block her phone and texts.

I'm sorry he is lying. If nothing happened, if, he.sure wanted something to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

btw, I am NOT saying reconciling is not an option here, or leaving is your only option. I just feel strongly that you've got to start from a willingness to share "the truth and the whole truth" (from both parties) as the foundation. 
Don't recall if you mentioned MC, but it really feels like it would be helpful for you if there's any hope....... good luck to you.


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