# Do you love unconditionally?



## hehasmyheart

What does it mean to you?

Does anyone actually love unconditionally?


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## browneyes74

Yes and no.. 

I did love my STBXH what I considered unconditionally.. With all his faults and baggage and WORK he brought into the marriage, I still adored him. Even when he started abusing valium and alcohol and later vicodin and alcohol, I didn't like him as much, but I still loved him. I worried about him, fussed over him, but yes, resented him, was angry with him, etc.. 

BUT, when I found out he was cheating, well, I realized, that NO, I did NOT love him unconditionally. There was ONE, VERY BIG condition.. Don't put your penis in other women.. 

I know. I'm picky that way. 

BUT, he was very shocked. And very angry, that I went to the D word so quickly. HOW could I? etc etc, blah blah blah.. 

Now, here's the thing.. And granted, it's a bit different, b/c my child can't cheat on me, per se.. but, if my child cheated on her spouse, would I stop loving her? No. I would be disappointed in her, yes, but not stop loving her. If she robbed, beat or even killed someone, I wouldn't stop loving her. I may change how I interact with her, but I wouldn't stop loving her.. 

And, although, I hadn't stopped loving my husband at the time I asked for a divorce, I started the proceedings. Basically I was saying, "I'm going to stop loving you now b/c of what you've done" But it took the nasty behavior over the next 6 months for him to really kill that love.. 

So, long story short, except for your children, and your parents, I think there will always be "conditions" to maintaining love.. Whether they be small or large, there is an expectation that you can't be toxic to me forever and get unlimited love in return.. But then again, I think that's fair too..


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## Jellybeans

The only people i love unconditionally are my parents. They have always had my back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous

Great Post BrownEyes74! ....I am not an unconditonal Lover.. did a thread on this once... even those who say they are...they really aren't... it's easy to SAY we are..when things are running smoothly....overlooking the little things.... but when a person consistently doesn't get their *emotional needs* met..or *betrayal* has knocked on their door as BrownEyes spoke... they would have to be a ROCK , or a STONE to keep loving under those conditions... sure we can do it for a time.. but it makes us weary, depressed... we are just not made like this.. we are emotional creatures with wants, needs and desires... *it was in the design to love and BE loved in return....*

I don't believe anyone is that self-less ....even my husband , who I would say is more "Unconditional" over myself -- he said there are things that I could do (How about pulling a "Susan Smith").. that would cause his blood to curdle & hate me with passion & fury (and I wouldn't blame him!)...... just as an example.. the most horrendous I can think of ... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ve-unconditional-love-what-does-mean-you.html

I tend to think like this poster (on that thread)


> *AFEH said*:
> 
> Maybe there are three types of love within the context of the thread.* Unconditional Love*, *Tough Love* and *Conditional Love*.
> 
> I think those who love their spouse unconditionally are headed for big trouble. This is a love without boundaries, without rules. And if the spouse is abusive in anyway unconditional love enables the abuse to continue, mainly the physical abuse of the wife or the emotional abuse of the husband. Unconditional love is the love of the codependent, it’s the codependent’s unconditional love that brings the codependent their pain.
> 
> Even with children I believe unconditional love to be very wrong. If the child is wayward in anyway, especially when young when they are learning most, it’s a parent’s unconditional love that enables the child to carry that wayward behaviour into their adult life. These types of behaviour are stopped by tough love and enabled by unconditional love. Again a love without healthy boundaries (or rules) will produce an adult without boundaries. It is for the parent to produce children who have healthy boundaries, rules, concerning how they treat others and how they let others treat them. I believe it one of the biggest tasks of a parent, to rear children with healthy boundaries. Sometimes it is very cruel to be kind. Sometimes a parent must hurt themselves to help their child.





> *browneyes74 said:* *So, long story short, except for your children, and your parents, I think there will always be "conditions" to maintaining love.. Whether they be small or large, there is an expectation that you can't be toxic to me forever and get unlimited love in return.. But then again, I think that's fair too.*


 As it should be.... it makes monsters to keep piling the love on...when others treat us like dirt , or blatantly hurt all those around them.... we then become *enablers* to destructive behavior. ...that's just not OK.


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## jld

I do not think I could stop loving my children. No matter what they did, I think I would always love them.

Dh and I feel like we love each other unconditionally, but that has never really been challenged. We try pretty hard to please each other, and that evokes loving feelings.

If we took one another for granted, and stopped meeting each other's needs, I bet we would not feel that way.

I did not like my dad at all. I am not sure about my mother.


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## yeah_right

I used to love my H unconditionally...before. Now I still love him, but I no longer need him.


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## jld

yeah_right said:


> I used to love my H unconditionally...before. Now I still love him, but I no longer need him.


Did he cheat on you, yeah right?


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## clipclop2

I don't think a child can hurt you the same way a spouse can. Unless they cheat with your 2nd husband or wife.


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## yeah_right

jld said:


> Did he cheat on you, yeah right?


He had a EA. I love him so much but if he were to come to me and ask for a divorce, I'd say "OK" and be fine. If I even suspect anything else in the future, I'm out. No drama, no tantrums...just D. Before that, he hung the moon for me and I loved him unconditionally for over two decades. But I now know that the condition is he doesn't get to hurt me like that ever again.

Editing to add that he has done absolutely everything required to R with me and he had always been a fabulous father, hubby and friend. That is why I intend to stay with him until death (unless he breaks my condition).


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## Cosmos

I love my son unconditionally, but I don't believe that I'm capable of loving anyone else this way...

If my son disrespects me, whilst I won't tolerate it it's unlikely to change my feelings towards him or cause me stop loving him. However, if somebody else disrespects / disregards me enough, my feelings towards them are very likely to change.


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## jld

yeah_right said:


> He had a EA. I love him so much but if he were to come to me and ask for a divorce, I'd say "OK" and be fine. If I even suspect anything else in the future, I'm out. No drama, no tantrums...just D. Before that, he hung the moon for me and I loved him unconditionally for over two decades. But I now know that the condition is he doesn't get to hurt me like that ever again.
> 
> Editing to add that he has done absolutely everything required to R with me and he had always been a fabulous father, hubby and friend. That is why I intend to stay with him until death (unless he breaks my condition).


I am sorry, yeah_right. I am sure that was painful. In some ways I wonder if an EA is more painful than a PA.

Dh and I will have been married 20 years in May. He is really good to me, too. I can't even imagine how shocked you must have been. When your marriage is so close, it just does not even seem possible.


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## Coffee Amore

I don't think unconditional love is a healthy thing in a marriage. There should be expectations and they are in the form of the vows you took when you got married. If you took vows, you put conditions on the marriage.

The danger in unconditional love is the one giving it can end up being a doormat. I much prefer someone who can love me but still say "THIS is what I expect from you and it's the same expectations I have for myself...I love you too much to let you treat me this way. It's not good for you or me." I can love and respect someone like that. A man who offered me unconditional love would probably lose my respect quite quickly. A lot of people say they love unconditionally but I wonder how true it is. If the spouse quit their job without any notice, stayed at home playing video games all day, didn't bathe for days, refused to change...would they still love them unconditionally? Most people I know, wouldn't. We have conditions and expectations on our love. It's not a bad thing at all.


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## "joe"

excellent topic and thanks for the link SA. i have experience (not my own) of what AFEH said about parents and children.


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## Ikaika

The notion of non-reciprocation, or as considered in the premise of unconditional love. I can love without possibly being loved, respected etc back is at face value not love but a one sided infatuation. I can't see how a relationship between two individuals based on core values of reciprocation could ever be considered love. What would be the value to the relationship for the one who fails to reciprocate but only receives? I don't assume all levels of dependence the same as love, however we can't ignore that as a tribal species that we have an interdependence with each other in which to survive. The saying "no man is an island" assumes we require the interactions with each other in which to survive. This assumes not only reciprocation of thought but especially of action. Thus the real question is, "can love be considered only a feeling or does it require action?" I would hypothesize that without the latter the former has no meaning, thus love without action and love without reciprocating action is not love. 

However, I would leave open the possibility that one could assume parent to child or the reverse as a form as unconditional love. I would also suggest in someways that this is a pay forward or pay backward reciprocating love. As parents we love our children, but we also hope that our children will continue to carry on our values and care for us in our aging years. Why care and teach our children to adhere to social norms except to hope for delayed reciprocation. A child who has been cared and loved by a parent may understand the value of paying back reciprocation to a parent. Again all of these cannot be built on feelings alone but require actions, though they are delayed. 

So what then of the child who cannot or has no mental capacity of love? This is the admitted weakness of my own hypothesis. A spouse relationship in this situation is not difficult, no reciprocation, relationship is over. But, with a child you can't have this same thought of mind. So what then? This is my own real life experience. I do love my oldest son, but I also understand his lack of reciprocation now and possibly into the future is something that confounds my thought of mind on my hypothesis. But, even then we spend an enormous amount of energy to hope for reciprocation. Is this true unconditional love or is this hopeful love? I don't know, I really can't answer it for all circumstances.


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## 2ntnuf

That was beautiful, drerio. 

In my own experience, which goes beyond the normal thoughts about love, I came here with the notion that I loved unconditionally. Part of that belief is rooted in my religious experience. How can God love us? He has never revealed his love to me by making my bed or washing my dishes, sitting and talking with me or giving me a hug when I need it. It's a difficult concept for me to grasp, that He loves me. For me to believe I am loved by God, I have to believe that He did give his only Son for my salvation. His Son chose of free will to suffer horribly and die for me and rose from the dead in an incorruptible body. That is love. It is the greatest love of all. I have to believe by faith, though, because I was not there. I didn't witness any of it. 

Based on that, I think my notion of love, here on earth was skewed. I believed it possible to love another unconditionally. I have found that it is possible to have feelings that are very similar if not the same as what I had while in my happy times of my marriage to x2. They are not exactly the same, since, as drerio writes, my love is not reciprocated, and I am not able to show the love I feel in my, "heart", for the object of my affection. My love, or some form thereof, will always be there. There are good memories which I have and those connections to dopamine and other chemicals are still present. I feel good, when I think nice thoughts of x2. 

What I know about these connections from reading, is they will always be there. We cannot lose them, but we replace them with new connections which provide greater or the same amount of pleasure to when things were good in the previous relationship. It's important to make new connections if we want to feel good again. they will replace the old. However, we may still feel a twinge once in a while from memories. That's normal. 

What we do with those is what is important. We can choose to act on them or not. We can ignore them, after a while and they will fade, but never be gone completely. 

That is the love I spoke of, but didn't know what it was and why I called it unconditional. I didn't understand what was going on in my brain. 

Now, I believe that love unrequited or not expressed, is not real love in this world. We must have it fed by the object of our affections or it will fade. We must express it to feel joy. When we express it properly, it gives happiness to the object of our affection. That is all important to getting the most joy out of the love we feel inside. We must give to get and get to give. 

I don't know about children. I love mine, but it works pretty much the same as I have stated above. If not returned, we love them, but we must find joy in another manner when love is not returned. We find it through our wives pride in us, our other children's pride in us, our friends pride in us. They love our friends show to us, is then used to fuel the supply of love we can show to a child who cannot. 

That's my best guess, d. It is partly educated and partly unproven. I want you to know that you are a good father in many ways. You deserve to be proud of yourself. You deserve the love that you cannot get. I'm pretty sure he loves you, but is incapable of expressing it in a meaningful way to those of us who cannot understand his type of communication. I do believe he just communicates differently. 

In any case, that's what I believe today. If I learn more, I may change that thinking a bit. I don't know. I know, I learn something every day.


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## honcho

Everyone has some breaking point on unconditional love. For some the line in the sand is clearly defined and for others its not. One of the great downfalls I guess for lack of a better term is usually until you are faced with the situation its impossible to even give yourself an honest answer. 

Its easy to say you think you could forgive this or that till your faced with it and its easy to say you would leave if this or that happened. Even then the answer may be different at different times because of life experiences and who you are loving. Sometimes part of unconditional love has to be tough love or conditional love. 

Children too often get the free pass because the fear of tough love is showing your child you don’t have unconditional love for them. For a child unconditionally loving your parents again it’s a two way street but just because they are your parents doesn’t automatically they get unconditional love. No one really gets a free pass in the love game.


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## Leveret

I think I love my child (soon to be children) unconditionally. I would love her probably no matter what she did, though I think I would have to experience the worst things to really know for sure.

I agree wholeheartedly about the responses regarding spouses, so I don't need to repeat what's already been so very well said. I can assure you there are conditions to loving parents.

As a child, you look up to your parents, love them as toddlers and children with an unconditional love, but as you grow they have their chances to lose that love. In my case my father was a drunk and a fool. He never hurt me and always loved me and I have never been able to lose my love of him, faults and all.

My mother, however, has done her best to drive me away. Years of tears, betrayal, mental abuse, neglect... When she believes her horrid boyfriend over her teenager who is crying to her about being raped and abused by said boyfriend, (called a liar, then later how I probably MADE him do it) you become broken and lost. When she continues to become more depressed and blames her miserable life on you, her financial burdens on you, insists no one could ever love you, laugh when you find love, spit on your marriage like it's a joke... the love leaves. There are conditions.

I'll admit it took a long time to stop loving her. I wanted to believe she loved me, but her actions and words spoke volumes. An occasional kind word or act of love could not dissuade the hurt. I've never even been given one apology.

I'm not saying you break your love for your parent(s) easily, in fact it took me years, but it can happen. There are conditions, though I think it's easier to forgive your parents or children over and over again. They made you, or you made them respectively. You didn't choose your parents, but you choose your spouse. Idk.


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## sammy3

One of the major issues that my h and I argue many times over after his affair is his "unconditional love" for me and my "conditional love" for him. 

He manages to bring me down to my knee over the guilt of what he put on me, and I allow to happen to me. 

He badgers me with the unconditional love, that forgiveness, acceptance and moving on together is all apart of what couples endure to build a life long strong relationship that can weather even the worst of the worst storms because he loves me unconditionally and is so sadden by my lack of, and that I have shown my real true colors... ((of conditional love)) after almost a life time together. 

-sammy


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## browneyes74

sammy3 said:


> One of the major issues that my h and I argue many times over after his affair is his "unconditional love" for me and my "conditional love" for him.
> 
> He manages to bring me down to my knee over the guilt of what he put on me, and I allow to happen to me.
> 
> He badgers me with the unconditional love, that forgiveness, acceptance and moving on together is all apart of what couples endure to build a life long strong relationship that can weather even the worst of the worst storms because he loves me unconditionally and is so sadden by my lack of, and that I have shown my real true colors... ((of conditional love)) after almost a life time together.
> 
> -sammy



Wow, Sammy.. That is horrible.. He destroyed that unconditional love. It's very easy for him to say that he has unconditional love, but he's not exhibiting it by saying those things to you, in my opinion.. He can have unconditional love to you b/c you haven't tested that theory by cheating on him.. 

And honestly, I'm thinking that conditional love is the way to go now.. I want someone to say, I want X, Y and Z from you to make me happy. And I can say the same. And then we know what the other needs and wants and decide to do it or not.. My life spent "unconditionally" loving my X meant me trying to fill that empty hole in him that he has been unable to fill his entire life.. No thanks.. Never again.. 

I don't think I'd want your husband's version of unconditional love.. Do you?


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## the2ofus

jld said:


> I am sorry, yeah_right. I am sure that was painful. In some ways I wonder if an EA is more painful than a PA.


It probably depends on the two people, their dynamics, their understandings.



drerio said:


> ...............................
> So what then of the child who cannot or has no mental capacity of love? This is the admitted weakness of my own hypothesis. A spouse relationship in this situation is not difficult, no reciprocation, relationship is over. But, with a child you can't have this same thought of mind. So what then? This is my own real life experience. I do love my oldest son, but I also understand his lack of reciprocation now and possibly into the future is something that confounds my thought of mind on my hypothesis. But, even then we spend an enormous amount of energy to hope for reciprocation. Is this true unconditional love or is this hopeful love? I don't know, I really can't answer it for all circumstances.


I have seen some beautiful examples of love for a spouse who could no lonher return that love due to alzheimers or some other form of dementia. I lose respect for the person, spouse or child,who stops loving and coming around in those situations. This is not a decision they made, they themselves wished it would go away as it came on. In the case of my fil his mom was an incredible mother but when she stopped being able to converse he wouldn't come by, how sad he missed out on those precious last months, I'm glad we didn't.



sammy3 said:


> One of the major issues that my h and I argue many times over after his affair is his "unconditional love" for me and my "conditional love" for him.
> 
> He manages to bring me down to my knee over the guilt of what he put on me, and I allow to happen to me.
> 
> He badgers me with the unconditional love, that forgiveness, acceptance and moving on together is all apart of what couples endure to build a life long strong relationship that can weather even the worst of the worst storms because he loves me unconditionally and is so sadden by my lack of, and that I have shown my real true colors... ((of conditional love)) after almost a life time together.
> 
> -sammy


Unconditional love never would have said it had a right to put its penis elsewhere.


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## Faithful Wife

The type of love that is unconditional isn't romantic love.

Unconditional love only applies to the spiritual realm.


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## Accipiter777

I have unconditional love for my wife. What I have conditions for is our marriage.


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## Accipiter777

jld said:


> I am sorry, yeah_right. I am sure that was painful. *In some ways I wonder if an EA is more painful than a PA.*
> 
> Dh and I will have been married 20 years in May. He is really good to me, too. I can't even imagine how shocked you must have been. When your marriage is so close, it just does not even seem possible.


I agree. A PA is just physical... does not have to be any heart put into it... an EA involves your heart and thoughts. IMHO.


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## jld

Accipiter777 said:


> I agree. A PA is just physical... does not have to be any heart put into it... an EA involves your heart and thoughts. IMHO.


Yep, this is what worries me, Accipiter. I think that if I were not careful, I could easily fall into an EA. That is why I started my Kink thread.

And I agree with what you said about conditions for your wife in marriage. You are right.


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## Kimberley17

I only love my kids unconditionally.


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## SimplyAmorous

Accipiter777 said:


> *I agree. A PA is just physical.*..


This depends.. If someone like ME or my husband had a PA, it would be a hell of a bad thing...because of the way we view sex.. we both see an EA as lessor -because of , again...how we view the sexual act, what it personally means to us...we see it as the deepest a couple can possibly share. 

But I know what you mean, for those who can & have separated love & sex, this is very true.


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## Accipiter777

I understand what you mean.


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## EI

Accipiter777 said:


> I have unconditional love for my wife. What I have conditions for is our marriage.


Very well said. Thank you.


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## As'laDain

unconditional love is easy. just keep this in mind:

what is best for the person i love? what do they need in order to be a better and happier person?

sometimes its praise, sometimes its support, sometimes its consequences and sometimes its a swift kick in the rear. 
but as long as you keep the goal of improving them and benefiting them as a whole, unconditional love is pretty easy.


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## jld

You are doing great, As'laDain.


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## jld

Accipiter777 said:


> I have unconditional love for my wife. What I have conditions for is our marriage.


Accipiter, if you could not be married to your wife anymore, but you still loved her unconditionally, how would that play out, on a practical level?


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## 2ntnuf

There are always conditions to love. That is why you do not marry everyone that is attracted to you or that you are attracted to.


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## As'laDain

jld said:


> You are doing great, As'laDain.


i try


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## Accipiter777

jld said:


> Accipiter, if you could not be married to your wife anymore, but you still loved her unconditionally, how would that play out, on a practical level?


I dont know. I'm still with her.


If we are divorced, it because a condition of our marriage was not adhered to. As I stated... we both have conditions set for being married.


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## Accipiter777

as'ladain said:


> unconditional love is easy. Just keep this in mind:
> 
> What is best for the person i love? What do they need in order to be a better and happier person?
> 
> Sometimes its praise, sometimes its support, sometimes its consequences and sometimes its a swift kick in the rear.
> But as long as you keep the goal of improving them and benefiting them as a whole, unconditional love is pretty easy.


exactly

Look past your spouses flaws... look past your needs, and see your spouse's needs.


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## Accipiter777

btw, unconditional love is not instant from the start. We grew into it.


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## Accipiter777

2ntnuf said:


> There are always conditions to love. That is why you do not marry everyone that is attracted to you or that you are attracted to.


I Disagree.

Took me more than 20 years to understand what unconditional love is, and as long as you put conditions on love, you'll not know what it is.


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## Cleigh

I love my children unconditionally. Thats it. to me there are always conditions on love for parents, , partners ect. I wouldn't love my man if he treated me wrong or cheated ect. That kind of love has conditions. Even if my children grew up to be mass murders I would still love them. I would have no problem hsnding them into the police but I would never stop loving them. Ever.


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## PinkSalmon13

I have. My wife has not. Thus our marriage has all but ended.

For those of you contemplating marriage, and those of you still with a little fire burning, make unconditionality a priority going forward. It is THAT critical.

(this excludes the usual caveats of physical abuse, substance abuse, adultery, etc...........beyond those things, just be GOOD to one another!)


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## 2ntnuf

Those would be conditions. I just know that we can feel love for someone no matter what they do or we do to them. If that's what you mean by unconditional love, okay. Thing is, you cannot stay with a woman, like in my case, that is consistently disrespecting you with affairs. She could not stay with me not being able to give her sex as often as she wanted. Those are conditions. We all have them. That doesn't mean I don't still feel like I love her. It means I cannot allow myself to show her love, nor can she allow herself to show me love, anymore. We reached our limits. If we tell our children that they must do there homework and they don't, we give them consequences. They don't feel loved. We don't hold that against them, do we? Well, sort of yes, because we make sure they are working on it from now on. We may still feel love for them. We want the best for them. We cannot love unconditionally. It is a dangerous proposition which leads to being used and abused. It is truly impossible, unless you think you are god?

I even think he has conditions. Don't you? I mean, if we don't ask for forgiveness and show remorse, we, as Christians, will go to eternal punishment. Does he love us? Maybe, but eternal punishment is not fun. It would not seem like love. I am not god. I am just a man.


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## As'laDain

PinkSalmon13 said:


> I have. My wife has not. Thus our marriage has all but ended.
> 
> For those of you contemplating marriage, and those of you still with a little fire burning, make unconditionality a priority going forward. It is THAT critical.
> 
> (this excludes the usual caveats of physical abuse, substance abuse, adultery, etc...........beyond those things, just be GOOD to one another!)


i wouldn't even exclude the caveats. unconditional love states that it doesn't matter what the person does, we will love them regardless. 

for a wayward, that means we need to bring them back to reality. for a drug addict, it usually means threatening them with divorce... which is the same for wayward spouses. 

with unconditional love, there are no caveats. i will do whatever i need to do to make them better than they are. simple as that. sometimes ill have to have a hard hand, because thats what they need. unconditional love, as far as i know, has nothing to do with how i feel. my feelings are subject to change, so how can they possibly be unconditional? 

the only things that can be unconditional are the rules i set out ahead of time. i set conditions and standards. i dont set out "maybes" 

since im already willing to deal with whatever problem comes down the pipe, and i have come up with a plan to deal with each situation, implementation is easy.


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## 2ntnuf

You can't change anyone, but yourself. That's the problem I have with that. It is controlling to force another to change, even when they are killing themselves with their lifestyle. I think what you are saying is, the WS is off their rocker or something and it's the husbands job to get them back up and into the rocker again. It's really not. It is one of a few things which is really okay to divorce over. It's called adultery. Whatever the reason for it, doesn't matter. God is not going to ask them if they were forced. He will show them the choices they had and they will know. If you believe. Sorry if you don't. No offense intended.


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## As'laDain

2ntnuf said:


> You can't change anyone, but yourself. That's the problem I have with that. It is controlling to force another to change, even when they are killing themselves with their lifestyle. I think what you are saying is, the WS is off their rocker or something and it's the husbands job to get them back up and into the rocker again. It's really not. It is one of a few things which is really okay to divorce over. It's called adultery. Whatever the reason for it, doesn't matter. God is not going to ask them if they were forced. He will show them the choices they had and they will know. If you believe. Sorry if you don't. No offense intended.


i do believe, and i agree with you. its not my job to fix someone. i do believe its my job to try to convince them to fix themselves. 

so, if a wayward spouse or a drug addict decide to continue down their own path of self destruction, thats not on me. i let them know what consequences awaited them. its on them. 

but at least i tried.


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## 2ntnuf

As'laDain said:


> i do believe, and i agree with you. its not my job to fix someone. i do believe its my job to try to convince them to fix themselves.
> 
> so, if a wayward spouse or a drug addict decide to continue down their own path of self destruction, thats not on me. i let them know what consequences awaited them. its on them.
> 
> but at least i tried.


They probably knew before they took the first vow that adultery would break the marriage. I don't see how they could not. I don't think they are drugged and in a stupor. They are just caught up in the natural bonding chemicals of new love. Those chemicals are there for a reason. If the woman gets pregnant, she needs a help-mate. It's best if it's the father. That's why men have the same sort of chemical ****tail that bonds them. Some folks just are able to get past it because they have experienced it so often. It's still there, unless they are somehow physically or mentally impaired. 

Good luck. I'm not saying it's wrong for you. We all must choose our path. Don't be fooled by the chemicals.


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## As'laDain

2ntnuf said:


> They probably knew before they took the first vow that adultery would break the marriage. I don't see how they could not. I don't think they are drugged and in a stupor. They are just caught up in the natural bonding chemicals of new love. Those chemicals are there for a reason. If the woman gets pregnant, she needs a help-mate. It's best if it's the father. That's why men have the same sort of chemical ****tail that bonds them. Some folks just are able to get past it because they have experienced it so often. It's still there, unless they are somehow physically or mentally impaired.
> 
> Good luck. I'm not saying it's wrong for you. We all must choose our path. Don't be fooled by the chemicals.


thats not the kind of love that i think of when i think of unconditional love. if my wife cheats on me, for instance, im going to do whatever i can to correct it. im more interested in seeing my wife grow as a person than i am in being happy right now. cheating shows weakness.

i would have to tear her down and build her back up, build our relationship back up, and make sure that she continuously exercises the various practices that will prevent it from happening again. 

for that, i would have to have a heavy hand. break contact, set rules, complete transparency, etc.
as long as she is willing to submit herself to it, i have the ability to help her grow. she always has the right to turn it down. that would be when i stop trying, since i would no longer have the ability to influence her. 

i have heard it called tough love sometimes...


----------



## jld

As'laDain said:


> thats not the kind of love that i think of when i think of unconditional love. if my wife cheats on me, for instance, im going to do whatever i can to correct it. im more interested in seeing my wife grow as a person than i am in being happy right now. cheating shows weakness.
> 
> i would have to tear her down and build her back up, build our relationship back up, and make sure that she continuously exercises the various practices that will prevent it from happening again.
> 
> for that, i would have to have a heavy hand. break contact, set rules, complete transparency, etc.
> as long as she is willing to submit herself to it, i have the ability to help her grow. she always has the right to turn it down. that would be when i stop trying, since i would no longer have the ability to influence her.
> 
> i have heard it called tough love sometimes...


This is excellent, As'laDain, and I would love to see a thread on it. This is what being a dominant man truly is, not all that Alpha stuff.

Please, please, please consider this.


----------



## 2ntnuf

As'laDain said:


> thats not the kind of love that i think of when i think of unconditional love. if my wife cheats on me, for instance, im going to do whatever i can to correct it. im more interested in seeing my wife grow as a person than i am in being happy right now. cheating shows weakness.
> 
> i would have to tear her down and build her back up, build our relationship back up, and make sure that she continuously exercises the various practices that will prevent it from happening again.
> 
> for that, i would have to have a heavy hand. break contact, set rules, complete transparency, etc.
> as long as she is willing to submit herself to it, i have the ability to help her grow. she always has the right to turn it down. that would be when i stop trying, since i would no longer have the ability to influence her.
> 
> i have heard it called tough love sometimes...


Dude, that's conditional love. That's exactly what I'm talking about. There really is no such thing as unconditional love. Unless, maybe, you are god? I believe he's the only one capable.


----------



## As'laDain

2ntnuf said:


> Dude, that's conditional love. That's exactly what I'm talking about. There really is no such thing as unconditional love. Unless, maybe, you are god? I believe he's the only one capable.


conditional?

we love our children unconditionally. even if they mess up all their lives, they are still our children and we still want the best for them. 

thats the way i love my wife. it has nothing to do with her. its my choice. as long as i have the power to do so, i will try to do everything i can to help my wife be better tomorrow than she is today.
i love myself the same way.

sometimes i put myself into positions i know will be extremely unpleasant because i know i need it to get better, to grow.

there are no conditions that will make me stop loving my daughter or my wife.
its unconditional.


----------



## jorgegene

I see several people here are confusing unconditional love with 'staying with someone'. It's not the same thing. We pledge unconditional love to our spouses in most traditional weddings.

We can keep that unconditional love no matter what. Even if we for whatever reasons dissolve the marriage. We can still love them. Love and living with a person are not the same. If my spouse cheats on me I will leave her. I will still love her. Which means continue to pray for her, hope the best, help her if I can.

I have two ex's that cheated on me. I still love them, but I will no longer am with them. One has since died, but when she was alive I prayed for her every day. The other is still alive and moved across country. I still pray for her.

If you are Christian (or maybe even if not) you believe we are unlovable by God's standards. But he loves us unconditionally. Doesn't mean he caters to us. 

Unconditional love is real, and the highest most glorious of all love.


----------



## As'laDain

jld said:


> This is excellent, As'laDain, and I would love to see a thread on it. This is what being a dominant man truly is, not all that Alpha stuff.
> 
> Please, please, please consider this.


im not sure what exactly your asking... a thread on what i consider to be unconditional love? how i view it/practice it?


----------



## As'laDain

jorgegene said:


> I see several people here are confusing unconditional love with 'staying with someone'. It's not the same thing. We pledge unconditional love to our spouses in most traditional weddings.
> 
> We can keep that unconditional love no matter what. Even if we for whatever reasons dissolve the marriage. We can still love them. Love and living with a person are not the same. If my spouse cheats on me I will leave her. I will still love her. Which means continue to pray for her, hope the best, help her if I can.
> 
> I have two ex's that cheated on me. I still love them, but I will no longer am with them. One has since died, but when she was alive I prayed for her every day. The other is still alive and moved across country. I still pray for her.
> 
> If you are Christian (or maybe even if not) you believe we are unlovable by God's standards. But he loves us unconditionally. Doesn't mean he caters to us.
> 
> Unconditional love is real, and the highest most glorious of all love.


you pretty much mirrored my mind.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

jorgegene said:


> *I see several people here are confusing unconditional love with 'staying with someone'. It's not the same thing. We pledge unconditional love to our spouses in most traditional weddings.
> 
> We can keep that unconditional love no matter what. Even if we for whatever reasons dissolve the marriage. We can still love them. Love and living with a person are not the same. If my spouse cheats on me I will leave her. I will still love her. Which means continue to pray for her, hope the best, help her if I can.*


 I am one of those people who separate these because I see zero love/ compassion in a friend, spouse, or whomever that DUMPS US...doesn't want to work it out, moves on....refuses to reconcile...talk to us, whatever, if this is what some call LOVE... that is mightily watered down.. I see no difference over REJECTION ...(many say they will pray for us -only words...actions speak)..... Love is being there for someone..wanting to get together, share, do things with. Not be separated...

Unconditional love is Bunk... even in Christianity -IF you reject Jesus Christ and do not obey his commandments (many like to overlook these scriptures)... you may live it up here & have your FUN for a season.... but we are warned such people will be cast into the Lake of Fire.. Even God supposedly has his conditions of "acceptance" ...Oh we have that freedom to choice whom we will serve... but it's still conditional.


----------



## jorgegene

SimplyAmorous said:


> I am one of those people who separate these because I see zero love/ compassion in a friend, spouse, or whomever that DUMPS US...doesn't want to work it out, moves on....refuses to reconcile...talk to us, whatever, if this is what some call LOVE... that is mightily watered down.. I see no difference over REJECTION ...(many say they will pray for us -only words...actions speak)..... Love is being there for someone..wanting to get together, share, do things with. Not be separated...
> 
> Unconditional love is Bunk... even in Christianity -IF you reject Jesus Christ and do not obey his commandments (many like to overlook these scriptures)... you may live it up here & have your FUN for a season.... but we are warned such people will be cast into the Lake of Fire.. Even God supposedly has his conditions of "acceptance" ...Oh we have that freedom to choice whom we will serve... but it's still conditional.


your wrong. your still making the same mistake i'm alluding to.
love doesn't mean acceptance necessarily. God may cast me into the lake of fire, but it's really my choice to go there for not taking his offer of forgiveness on his terms. He'll still love me though. He'll still hope that i'll reach out to grasp him even to the last second and beyond. He can't take me if i'm unwilling. 
but he'll still love me. there are no conditions.

same thing with my ex's. i don't accept what they did, and i left them/they left me. i don't accept them, but i can still love them from afar


----------



## SimplyAmorous

jorgegene said:


> *your wrong. your still making the same mistake i'm alluding to.
> love doesn't mean acceptance necessarily. God may cast me into the lake of fire, but it's really my choice to go there for not taking his offer of forgiveness on his terms. He'll still love me though. He'll still hope that i'll reach out to grasp him even to the last second and beyond. He can't take me if i'm unwilling.
> but he'll still love me. there are no conditions.*


 People disagree on this notion...and that's fine..It's like I said...if I am not accepted, banished, a memory ... I don't constitute that *as LOVE*.. and I would be very angry at someone standing there telling me they LOVE me but want nothing to do with me-other than Pray for me... that is a pure slap in my face..... if you feel this is loving, you are entitled to your feelings, and position.. 

I guess we all have our interpretations of what LOVE is, how it feels...and what it looks like.. *I want "acceptance " and being brought back in communion with my LOVE*...this is something you do not require ...but I do -in my own definition.... 



> same thing with my ex's. i don't accept what they did, and i left them/they left me. i don't accept them, but i can still love them from afar


How does this Love DO anything for them... love to me, is an ACTION.. not a memory of what was... again, I guess it is perception... Lots of people go around saying they LOVE everyone, I find that basically ridiculous....they love their families, they may be a caring person but they don't love everyone or they would give money, take them in... DO for them....I just feel throwing the love word around like that 'waters it down".... I had this same discussion in my Unconditional Love thread... Yes, people disagree on it... there are 2 camps... 

Your definition of Love does not require Acceptance, action and willingness to be brought back to each other.....MINE DOES or I cease to call it Love... I may call it "forgiveness"- having no ill against this person, I may even pray for them, I just wouldn't call it LOVE, I may say "I ONCE loved them"... but not in the present tense...whereas you would still say this.. 

I do wonder how others feel on this...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Many are speaking of parents loving children unconditionally here (everyone seems to be solid on that)...

I personally know of a Father right now / Grandfather who has bent over backwards to look out for his 2 granddaughters -raising them (along with his wife -a step Grandmother)... because the Mother abandoned them... no fathers in the picture, her lifestyle leaves much to be desired....they cared for these children enough to fight for custody and WON in the courts....I don't think this is easy to do..(??)..they feared for the girls welfare....

They have allowed this daughter into their home -to live with them....so these girls could be with her...doing all they can for a normal upbringing... paid for her cars, was THERE for her when she has disrespected them, she has basically taken advantage of them..and NOW...she is attempting to stir false allegations against this Father to manipulate the courts so she can run off to another state with a new boyfriend & take these girls... . 

I talked with him on the phone... he can't believe she is doing this, they have had their troubles in the past but THIS.....he made mention of the love running DRY.... and I don't blame the man one bit...... when you have done all you can possibly do to protect your family....giving that unconditional love when they cause you pain & Heartache....then they betray you , stab you in the back.. .... No.. I mean I am sure he wants the best for her...but this was pure evil on her behalf.

I'd have to say -if I was in HIS shoes, the unconditional would be up in flames...his concern ONLY is for his grand daughters at this point as they are innocent...and they will continue the fight for a stable life for them.


----------



## arbitrator

*When I listened to my copy of my marital vows not awfully long ago, I never quite picked upon the verbiage/phrase "and to unconditionally love," but it was in there, as big as you please, asked of both me and my skanky XW.

Isn't it rather strange that verbal marital contracts, made in the presence of God seem to have so little meaning and bearing anymore, as greatly compared to the manual, self-serving, man-made contracts and prenups that obviously do!*


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Marriage Builders even explains what is wrong with Unconditional love on this website..

What's Wrong with Unconditional Love (Part 1) ...... What's Wrong with Unconditional Love (Part 2)

A piece of the article...bringing scripture into it, after all, Harley is a Christian author...



> I believe that a couple in a marital relationship should meet each other's important emotional needs, and avoid hurting each other. That should be their promise to each other on the day of their wedding. If they keep their promise, they'll be in love with each other throughout their marriage, just like Joyce and me. But if one violates that commitment, should the other be held to it?
> 
> I've heard almost every argument in favor of unconditional love, and I've found that the argument that is the most difficult for me to refute is religious. While this argument has been made by advocates of many different religions, I'll focus on the Christian argument because that's the faith that I endorse.
> 
> The argument goes something like this: We should love our spouses unconditionally because Jesus Christ loves us unconditionally. Even if it's not safe or practical to do so (as with infidelity, physical abuse, or divorce) we should love unconditionally out of obedience to God. While I certainly encourage being in obedience to God, I can't find any text from the Christian Bible that suggests that conclusion.
> 
> *The phrase, "unconditional love" is found nowhere in Scripture*. We read "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16). Those who encourage us to love unconditionally take this to mean that God loves us all unconditionally. But if that's true, it must be my third meaning of the word, love--he wishes us the best in life.
> 
> That's because the verse goes on to explain that we must do something to save ourselves. According to this verse,* we must meet his conditions to be saved.* Specifically, we must believe in Jesus Christ. Since the vast majority of the human race does not believe in Jesus, we must assume from this verse and others that while God may love the world and would like them to be saved, most of humanity will not meet the conditions. A faith in Jesus Christ is required.
> 
> The concept of salvation itself is expressed in many different ways in various texts, but it always comes with* a condition*. It's never suggested that salvation comes with no strings attached. As one example, "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:9). And making Christ lord of your life is not a trivial condition.
> 
> *Just as our relationship with God is bilateral, where we must both fulfill our commitment for the relationship to function, our marital relationship is also bilateral. *A successful marriage is one where both husband and wife care for each other by meeting each other's important emotional needs, and avoid hurting each other.


----------



## jorgegene

wow. Christian author or not, he's got it wrong. I'm not sure why the concept of unconditional love is so hard to grasp. I think it's pretty simple even if you don't buy it. 

This guy above makes the same mistake. He's right that God only accepts us on his terms. But he's speaking of salvation as though it's the same as love. It's not. God loves even those who have rejected him. Sure it's a condition. I'm not going to get into a theological debate (I could btw) and debunck him to hijack this thread, but he's simply wrong wrong, dead wrong.

As for SimplyAmourous, (He/She) make a valid argument for their definition of love. (He/She?) says they define love as 'actively loving or participating in love' or it isn't love. That's a valid view that i have to respect although I don't agree. I can still love from afar ACTIVELY. I can still hope, pray and help out if needed. Those are actions not just forgiveness.


----------



## jld

As'laDain said:


> im not sure what exactly your asking... a thread on what i consider to be unconditional love? how i view it/practice it?


Yes, and thanks so much for doing it.


----------



## 2ntnuf

jorgegene said:


> wow. Christian author or not, he's got it wrong. I'm not sure why the concept of unconditional love is so hard to grasp. I think it's pretty simple even if you don't buy it.
> 
> *This guy above makes the same mistake. He's right that God only accepts us on his terms.* But he's speaking of salvation as though it's the same as love. It's not. God loves even those who have rejected him. Sure it's a condition. I'm not going to get into a theological debate (I could btw) and debunck him to hijack this thread, but he's simply wrong wrong, dead wrong.
> 
> As for SimplyAmourous, (He/She) make a valid argument for their definition of love. (He/She?) says they define love as 'actively loving or participating in love' or it isn't love. That's a valid view that i have to respect although I don't agree. I can still love from afar ACTIVELY. I can still hope, pray and help out if needed. Those are actions not just forgiveness.





> *This guy above makes the same mistake. He's right that God only accepts us on his terms.*


Yep, you are right. I was speaking of salvation in the same terms as love. Do you know why? 

Because we feel love for someone and we can express love for someone. They are two different things. If we do not express our love for our spouse in a manner that they understand is loving, as in books like, "His Needs, Her Needs", how would they know they were loved?

So, by default, there are conditions to us being loved. I doubt we feel God's love in eternal punishment. God feels love for us, but we won't feel it unless He decides to show it in a manner we understand to be love. 

Maybe you are saying we choose eternal punishment and that feels like love? Sick, I think. 

Love is conditional.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

jorgegene said:


> As for SimplyAmourous, (He/She) make a valid argument for their definition of love. (He/She?) says they define love as 'actively loving or participating in love' or it isn't love. That's a valid view that i have to respect although I don't agree. I can still love from afar ACTIVELY. I can still hope, pray and help out if needed. Those are actions not just forgiveness.


I'm a she and it's a







...and I appreciate you can acknowledge it is a valid view... it's nothing new under the sun that we don't all see things through the same lenses...we can take any word, topic, and get a prism of various interpretations...

I am in agreement with the "His Needs/ Her Needs" author on this one... even though I no longer call myself a Believer in the christian sense...*my reasoning* works with what he has presented in that article....that is all I can really offer.

I have many issues with scripture & their intended meanings (even Christians can not agree or we wouldn't have 30,000 + denominations - dividing us)...

"Unconditional Love" is just another that can be viewed a variety of ways... I have no problem with how others view it -though again, it would irritate ME personally if someone insisted they still Loved me when they didn't want me back into their lives...let's say I begged to reconcile... I could only see that as Rejection (unloving)...and them trying to make themselves smell like a rose by using the term LOVE -when I didn't feel it, only banishment...

I will shut up now.... I promise.


----------



## sammy3

Accipiter777 said:


> I agree. A PA is just physical... does not have to be any heart put into it... an EA involves your heart and thoughts. IMHO.


A PA hurts just as much as a EA. Don't kid yourself. There is still planning involved, lies involve, living another life that one's spouse is unaware of, and all the crap that goes with the secert life, just sex or not, still would hurt the other. 

H has a friend, once a month, flies to Hong Kong where he gets his jollies off with 5 women at a time... only sex... what do you think his wife would do or feel if she had a clue that this has been her life for the past 22 years????

I was one of the lucky one"s who H had both, and now after the 'fog' has lifted, trying to convince me, it was only sex...

yeah, no there's no heart involved, be h friend has to heartless.

-sammy


----------



## jorgegene

So there are those who believe love must be reciprocal in order for love to be valid. Fair enough. 

If the Author in 'marriage builders' is saying that in marriage there must be reciprocation in order for the marriage to work, else beyond a certain point the marriage is irripairably broken, then I agree.

However, my point is there is a higher realm of unconditional love that is scriptural.

"for God so loved the WORLD (meaning all mankind) that he gave his only begotten Son....." John 3:16

"This is how God shows his love for us; that while we were still sinners
(even reprobate sinners), Christ died for us" Romans 5:8

and finally; "I say to you love your enemies, do good to those that hate you" Luke 6:17

for those that don't accept this, I understand.
I believe there is a similar concept in Buddhism, though I must confess I would need to search for it.

Nevertheless, unconditional love exists. That is what I aspire to even though it is elusive.


----------



## greenpearl

jorgegene said:


> So there are those who believe love must be reciprocal in order for love to be valid. Fair enough.
> 
> If the Author in 'marriage builders' is saying that in marriage there must be reciprocation in order for the marriage to work, else beyond a certain point the marriage is irripairably broken, then I agree.
> 
> However, my point is there is a higher realm of unconditional love that is scriptural.
> 
> "for God so loved the WORLD (meaning all mankind) that he gave his only begotten Son....." John 3:16
> 
> "This is how God shows his love for us; that while we were still sinners
> (even reprobate sinners), Christ died for us" Romans 5:8
> 
> and finally; "I say to you love your enemies, do good to those that hate you" Luke 6:17
> 
> for those that don't accept this, I understand.
> I believe there is a similar concept in Buddhism, though I must confess I would need to search for it.
> 
> Nevertheless, unconditional love exists. That is what I aspire to even though it is elusive.


God loves us, but he expects us to listen to him and obey him. He punished Israelites who didn't obey him. Of course, it is for our benefit to listen to God's advice and live our life according to his principles.


----------



## 2ntnuf

jorgegene said:


> So there are those who believe love must be reciprocal in order for love to be valid. Fair enough.


Not quite what I meant. As humans, we cannot love unconditionally. 



jorgegene said:


> If the Author in 'marriage builders' is saying that in marriage there must be reciprocation in order for the marriage to work, else beyond a certain point the marriage is irripairably broken, then I agree.
> 
> However, my point is there is a higher realm of unconditional love that is scriptural.
> 
> "for God so loved the WORLD (meaning all mankind) that he gave his only begotten Son....." John 3:16
> 
> "This is how God shows his love for us; that while we were still sinners
> (even reprobate sinners), Christ died for us" Romans 5:8
> 
> and finally; "I say to you love your enemies, do good to those that hate you" Luke 6:17


And why again did Christ die for us? Because He knew we could not achieve those lofty goals or because we did an were achieving them? Was it a reward or did He know we don't deserve the rewards of heaven? So he cam to pay the price for us, since we could not?

Wasn't Christ fully God and fully man? There was only one who could do that. He was the only one who could, or we'd have looked to someone fully human only for our salvation.



jorgegene said:


> for those that don't accept this, I understand.
> I believe there is a similar concept in Buddhism, though I must confess I would need to search for it.
> 
> Nevertheless, unconditional love exists. That is what I aspire to even though it is elusive.


Aspire to achieve, yes.


----------



## Accipiter777

*Rolls his eyes....

How does one unsubscribe to a thread?


----------



## TBT

hehasmyheart said:


> What does it mean to you?
> 
> Does anyone actually love unconditionally?


Not being perfect,I'm leaning towards myself not being 100% able to love unconditionally.


----------



## jorgegene

Also, I might add that although the term 'unconditional love', it is throughout scripture. The term 'unconditional love is modern jargon'. Similarly there are other terms such as 'rapture' never occurs in scripture, but the concept is there. We have since coined phrases such as 'unconditional love' to capsulize the concept.


----------



## As'laDain

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'm a she and it's a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and I appreciate you can acknowledge it is a valid view... it's nothing new under the sun that we don't all see things through the same lenses...we can take any word, topic, and get a prism of various interpretations...
> 
> I am in agreement with the "His Needs/ Her Needs" author on this one... even though I no longer call myself a Believer in the christian sense...*my reasoning* works with what he has presented in that article....that is all I can really offer.
> 
> I have many issues with scripture & their intended meanings (even Christians can not agree or we wouldn't have 30,000 + denominations - dividing us)...
> 
> "Unconditional Love" is just another that can be viewed a variety of ways... I have no problem with how others view it -though again, it would irritate ME personally if someone insisted they still Loved me when they didn't want me back into their lives...let's say I begged to reconcile... I could only see that as Rejection (unloving)...and them trying to make themselves smell like a rose by using the term LOVE -when I didn't feel it, only banishment...
> 
> I will shut up now.... I promise.


unconditional love is sometimes hard to implement. its a simple idea... do whatever you can to improve the person you love. but it can get difficult in an infidelity situation. 

now, if i honestly thought that kicking my wife out would cause her to learn from her mistakes and become a better person for it, i would do it. 

problem is, im pretty bull headed. i like to maintain my influence on those i love. so, i do what i can to make sure it never happens again, and i keep them close to me.

how people implement unconditional love is as varied as the color of our skin. but as long as they always try to improve the other, they are practicing it.


i accepted reconciliation with my wife. i wanted to go farther down the rabbit hole and see what i could do for her. others might not feel that what i did is the right option for them and their loved one.. it doesn't matter to me. as long as they are thinking in terms of benefiting the other person, they are practicing unconditional love.


----------



## sammy3

jorgegene said:


> So there are those who believe love must be reciprocal in order for love to be valid. Fair enough.
> 
> If the Author in 'marriage builders' is saying that in marriage there must be reciprocation in order for the marriage to work, else beyond a certain point the marriage is irripairably broken, then I agree.
> 
> However, my point is there is a higher realm of unconditional love that is scriptural.
> 
> "for God so loved the WORLD (meaning all mankind) that he gave his only begotten Son....." John 3:16
> 
> "This is how God shows his love for us; that while we were still sinners
> (even reprobate sinners), Christ died for us" Romans 5:8
> 
> and finally; "I say to you love your enemies, do good to those that hate you" Luke 6:17
> 
> for those that don't accept this, I understand.
> I believe there is a similar concept in Buddhism, though I must confess I would need to search for it.
> 
> Nevertheless, unconditional love exists. That is what I aspire to even though it is elusive.


... you forgot two other points that God said , "Thou shall not commit adultery" & "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife"

# 6 & #9 of the 10 Commandments of God 

-sammy


----------



## As'laDain

jld said:


> Yes, and thanks so much for doing it.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...on/169586-unconditional-love.html#post7219570


----------



## 2ntnuf

As'laDain said:


> unconditional love is sometimes hard to implement. its a simple idea... do whatever you can to improve the person you love. but it can get difficult in an infidelity situation.
> 
> now, if i honestly thought that kicking my wife out would cause her to learn from her mistakes and become a better person for it, i would do it.
> 
> problem is, im pretty bull headed. i like to maintain my influence on those i love. so, i do what i can to make sure it never happens again, and i keep them close to me.
> 
> how people implement unconditional love is as varied as the color of our skin. but as long as they always try to improve the other, they are practicing it.
> 
> 
> i accepted reconciliation with my wife. i wanted to go farther down the rabbit hole and see what i could do for her. others might not feel that what i did is the right option for them and their loved one.. it doesn't matter to me. as long as they are thinking in terms of benefiting the other person, they are practicing unconditional love.


There's too much ambiguity in this. Who knows what you mean? It can read a little controlliing. It can read a little codependent. It can read a little naive. 

It can read all great, fantastic and wonderful. Depends on specifics. Depends on you and your partner. Way too much left to interpretation here.


----------



## 2ntnuf

As'laDain said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...on/169586-unconditional-love.html#post7219570


This is how we are supposed to live, but it is not unconditional. There is still the issue of forcing someone to comply with what you believe is best for them. I doubt you meant that. It just reads that way. I've been controlled and do not like it. I've been controlling and do my very best not to ever do that again. I just cannot agree with this in whole. I don't think it is healthy. It kind of reads noble, until you get a different perspective. I applaud your efforts to be a better person. I applaud your efforts to help others. I think the control aspect of it all is why I disagree with you. Take care.


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## As'laDain

2ntnuf said:


> This is how we are supposed to live, but it is not unconditional. There is still the issue of forcing someone to comply with what you believe is best for them. I doubt you meant that. It just reads that way. I've been controlled and do not like it. I've been controlling and do my very best not to ever do that again. I just cannot agree with this in whole. I don't think it is healthy. It kind of reads noble, until you get a different perspective. I applaud your efforts to be a better person. I applaud your efforts to help others. I think the control aspect of it all is why I disagree with you. Take care.


i want to thank you for posting your comments about it. i feel as though it gives me more opportunities to describe what it is that i believe.

sometimes, i am controlling. ill admit it because its true. but, i do it because i believe im helping people. i have messed up before, and i have been told that. so, its still a learning process for me. 

i remember a particular leader of mine, a sergeant, who made me spend hours and hours polishing every round in a belt of ammunition. i thought he was being overly critical and demanding. then i had a friend die because his weapon jammed and he couldnt fire back. mine never did.

that sergeant didn't force me to polish brass for hours and hours because he wanted me to work. he made me do it because he knew that if i didn't, i could die. he wanted me to live. he made me do what he already knew i needed to do.

he had my best interests in mind, and that had nothing to do with how i felt at the time.


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## Ikaika

the2ofus said:


> It probably depends on the two people, their dynamics, their understandings.
> 
> 
> 
> *I have seen some beautiful examples of love for a spouse who could no lonher return that love due to alzheimers or some other form of dementia. I lose respect for the person, spouse or child,who stops loving and coming around in those situations*. This is not a decision they made, they themselves wished it would go away as it came on. In the case of my fil his mom was an incredible mother but when she stopped being able to converse he wouldn't come by, how sad he missed out on those precious last months, I'm glad we didn't.
> 
> 
> Unconditional love never would have said it had a right to put its penis elsewhere.


Fair enough and I would agree. Very well said.


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## UsernameHere

In all areas where there is respect between my wife and myself I would say we do love unconditionally. However the reality is that we don't always agree on everything, and I often feel that I am more forgiving of things than my wife.


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## clipclop2

*Re: Re: Do you love unconditionally?*



arbitrator said:


> *When I listened to my copy of my marital vows not awfully long ago, I never quite picked upon the verbiage/phrase "and to unconditionally love," but it was in there, as big as you please, asked of both me and my skanky XW.
> 
> Isn't it rather strange that verbal marital contracts, made in the presence of God seem to have so little meaning and bearing anymore, as greatly compared to the manual, self-serving, man-made contracts and prenups that obviously do!*


You didn't read and agree to the verbiage before the ceremony?


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## SimplyAmorous

jorgegene said:


> *for those that don't accept this, I understand.
> I believe there is a similar concept in Buddhism, though I must confess I would need to search for it.
> 
> Nevertheless, unconditional love exists. That is what I aspire to even though it is elusive.*


I agree it exists, the question was asked if WE love unconditionally...there are many situations I don't think I could -just being honest here....I would grow a mountain of resentment if I was not treated right... I would have to get out.....

It if is a case where a Loving devoted spouse falls ill, no fault of their own as the2ofus said here "I have seen some beautiful examples of love for a spouse who could no longer return that love due to alzheimers or some other form of dementia. I lose respect for the person, spouse or child,who stops loving and coming around in those situations. 

I think of "*the Notebook"*... where the older Noah is reading to his wife..... who can't remember ... she pushes him away, doesn't recognize him...but he hangs on to the smallest of hope for a glimpse of a memory...










... their children find it all so sad, they want Dad to just come home...and he says .."My home is with your Mother" or something like that.. I know my husband would love me like that... and I would love him like that.. 

I was talking to a Preacher days ago and asked this question...she also feels as the Christians here , that even if we end up in hell, God still loves us unconditionally, it was our choice to go there.. but HE still loves....I struggle with that one.. but Ok. I just don't see what good that sort of love does me If I am burning in everlasting torment.. but I guess the Senile partner doesn't feel anything either... I don't know.. it's DEEP. 

I tend to only think in the realm of the here & now...and the normal... of both partners fully able being of right mind, giving and receiving...



> *As'laDain said*: *how people implement unconditional love is as varied as the color of our skin. but as long as they always try to improve the other, they are practicing it*.


 I'd probably just call this practicing *active loving*, not necessarily unconditional ...(it's all in our own definitions I suppose).... I don't think it is all that difficult to love someone who shows remorse... who wants to be reconciled.. actively comes to us with a heavy heart -wanting restored...actually I think loving the humble is pretty easy....

But continuing to have any good feelings towards someone who ripped our hearts out, who are proud, arrogant -who wants nothing to do with us, whose actions show waywardness...who would back stab us when not in their presence.....who have betrayed.... now that is another animal...(I suppose we could say the Prodigal son's father did just THIS.. but did he hurt the Father or just HIMSELF by his choices, I don't know)....

I don't love these people and I wouldn't say I do... I don't even like them.. I am not GOD and my love does not run THAT DEEP..... I do have a heart for the underdog however... and those who have been beat down..again, the humble souls..one with a contrite heart.. but again, this is conditional -from my end .... that's just how I look at it.. 

Even the scriptures reference to similar...... 



> Contrite heart
> 
> Psalm 51:17 says >> *"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God thou wilt not despise."*
> 
> Also in Psalm 34:18 >> *"The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit*."





> i accepted reconciliation with my wife. i wanted to go farther down the rabbit hole and see what i could do for her. *others might not feel that what i did is the right option for them and their loved one.. it doesn't matter to me*. as long as they are thinking in terms of benefiting the other person, they are practicing unconditional love.


 I think your way of loving here IS beautiful.. there is a story in this section of a man whose wife was cheating with a neighbor for over 11 yrs... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-term-success-marriage/8698-how-we-overcame-adultery.html

...and he FORGAVE her... he took a lot of ridicule for that... . It was an amazing story of love and forgiveness...and yeah... if this man spoke of unconditional.. I will raise my hand in agreement but those who push the other away.... divorce when it could have been saved... when the other was remorseful, I just can't see that as unconditional ...if they say they still love them.....(and I surely don't judge them for their choice either)

Your definition makes more sense to me..you are living it...


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## NobodySpecial

I would say that I love my children unconditionally. I love my husband exceptionally, generously and thoughtfully. As the years go by, the sense approaches unconditionally.


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## OptimisticPessimist

In my opinion, love is conditional by definition. 

Love is a lingual label describing an electrochemical state of the brain; the electrochemical state is determined by our anticipation of a lover's successful relationship to the manner in which mankind manipulates energy. 

We are all beavers, albeit very smart ones. We create or destroy nothing- we merely change the state of energy into a form that is useful for our survival. "Love" is the lasting subjective realization of a valid relationship to energy; laughter aids survival, calm level-headed response aids survival, firey aggressive action aids survival- which of these we find attractive will be determined by the elements which mold our relationship to the natural world.

Genes could be seen as one element- one strategy for amassing energy in the world formed over thousands of years by the blending of various genetic strategies. Is it a coincidence that the feelings of love encourage an act which results in the male inseminating the female with his genetic material? Is it a coincidence that "Sex in Marriage" is so popular among sub-forums? Is it a coincidence that "Coping with Infidelity" is also popular, and concerns itself primarily with the physical act of stray genetic material (PA) or the potential for even worse (EA)?

Another element is our perspective, or the filters through which we run the data we get from our senses about the state of energy around us. This is what were working on in this forum. We arent changing the past here- we are trying to understand the past by modifying the way our feelings and actions respond to what we take in. Science is a perspective (a damn good one). Therapy is perspective modification. E=MC^2 was a perspective modification; is it any coincidence that we know of that equation, we know of Einstein and his contributions, but many of us dont know how many kids he had or what they ended up doing? This is because in the human realm, we evolve on two paths; love as we understand it is unique to humans in its intensity and complexity BECAUSE of us evolving through these two paths (instead of one as most other animals do)..

Attraction (lust) is based on condition- it is based on how your genetics and perspective "strike" another. The sustainment of "love" being conditional is corroborated every time we agree that a marriage needs respect, productiveness, and praise in order for marriage to work in the long term. Any one aspect (great looks, great heart, great mind) can offset a great many sins for a period, but "forever till death do us part" requires that conditions be met.

Just IMO...


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