# Open Marriage option... I just do not get it



## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Something that has been circling my head for some time now. I've been in a few relationships and one marriage. When two people get married, they take sacred vows. Last time I checked, intimacy was one of them. I do not understand how one spouse can suggest open marriage, and the other spouse agree. It seems like a means to an end; not to mention a clear violation of the vows of marriage. If two people, who are in a union of marriage enter into an open marriage; what's the point? Usually, or at least in my case, the wife suggested it and just told me we just do not bring them home or discuss it with each other. I was so shocked at that, when she said what do you think, the only thing I could say is I think we should divorce. Clearly, there's no love left for me in your heart. 

Is this becoming the norm? I see several topics on open marriages, and I just do not understand. Maybe I am missing something.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Vows are personal to each. Not everyone decides sex is only for their spouse. I don't think you're missing anything, it's not for everyone. There's nothing bad about not wanting it. There's nothing bad about being in one. 

I know quite a few who do it very successfully. There are also several different kinds so "open" can mean a lot of things. 

Some want the don't ask, don't tell style your wife mentioned. 

Others become good friends with their mutual spouses partners. Some even all live together. 

Some are just sex, some date and love other partners. 

Some do the hotwifing thing where they watch or hear about someone or often multiple men with their wives. 

Etc etc. The couple decides what works for them. 

The important thing is both are on board, boundaries are kept, trust is there and the marriage is still a priority. 

What's the point? That's up to them. I think everyone would have their own reasons. 
Is it the norm? Not really, the % of people in open marriages is quite small.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I am with you on this, if my H wanted an open marriage, then time for the divorce papers, simple.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Vows are personal to each. Not everyone decides sex is only for their spouse. I don't think you're missing anything, it's not for everyone. There's nothing bad about not wanting it. There's nothing bad about being in one.
> 
> I know quite a few who do it very successfully. There are also several different kinds so "open" can mean a lot of things.
> 
> ...


Then there's really no point in being married. Shows, in my opinion, a lack of love and respect to the other spouse. It was my final straw and thus I filed for divorce. It's not a religious thing, it's to me, a moral thing. I could never do that to my partner; married or not. Shows, in my opinion, a lack of trust, respect, honor and loyalty. 

As for the hot wife thing.. I had to look that up and got plenty of info from Reddit. Wow. Not sure who I feel more sorry for, the simp **** men or the sexually abused wives. I am not a psychologist, but this has to cause some sort of mental damage of no connection; lack of empathy for the female. I am not even going into the STD/STI issues that can and prob. do occur. It's wrong on so many levels.

What person, man or woman, wants to be used just for their parts or orifices? That's what it boils down to. Society, in general is heading to straight into the crapper. 

BTW, before someone comes in and says well, what if that person is unable to have intimacy due to a medical condition. There are other forms of intimacy that can be done. If the person is on the death bed or in a coma, I'd stick by their side. That's just me. Sex would be the last thing on my mind. Morally, that is what marriage is supposed to be. Unless, I missed the updated memo on marriage. I also expect the same from my partner. Obviously, as one can read from my posts, I wasn't able to get the same level of respect, so I made the decision to leave.

I cannot fathom anyone, male or female, openly agreeing to an open marriage. Screams lack of self respect for the person this would be forced upon. If there are sexual issues in the marriage, the answer is to work on those issues to bring the two people back to ground zero of intimacy; not sleeping with other people. I was in the same position. I speak from experience. I was given this option, when I NEVER asked nor ever suggested it, and I declined; filed for divorce. It's not a Christian thing. It's a moral thing. A lack of respect thing. I couldn't imagine another person with my then wife. Now, my ex-wife has my blessing to be ran through like a locomotive is she desires. 

Again, maybe it's just me and the times are a changing. It still makes little sense.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

itsontherocks said:


> Something that has been circling my head for some time now. I've been in a few relationships and one marriage. When two people get married, they take *sacred* vows. Last time I checked, intimacy was one of them. I do not understand how one spouse can suggest open marriage, and the other spouse agree. It seems like a means to an end; not to mention a clear violation of the vows of marriage. If two people, who are in a union of marriage enter into an open marriage; what's the point? Usually, or at least in my case, the wife suggested it and just told me we just do not bring them home or discuss it with each other. I was so shocked at that, when she said what do you think, the only thing I could say is I think we should divorce. Clearly, there's no love left for me in your heart.
> 
> Is this becoming the norm? I see several topics on open marriages, and I just do not understand. Maybe I am missing something.


You believe that the vows are sacred. Many people do not. And there are many people who do believe in the vows, but see marriage as a negotiable contract, not a limited and fixed one. Besides, if one partner is not willing or able to fully and properly fulfill their roles for intimacy and sex, the other partner may not be willing to put up with that. Morality is relative, and circumstantial

Anyway, this is unacceptable to you, and that's fine. You know your boundaries, and are enforcing them. What we don't know (do you?) is why your STBX asked for this, and did she have an issue with you that could have been corrected before she reached that point?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

You are assuming that it's just one person wanting it. A lot of relationships start open because that's what both people were looking for. 

It would be a horrible situation if one person wanted it and made the other go along even though they didn't want it. Yes, that is disrespectful. But open marriages that work are because both spouses chose it and wanted it. No one being forced into it. They talk about it a lot and continue to make sure both are ok with it. 

Also not everyone connects sex with a moral thing. For some sex is just sex. Neither person is wrong but together they are not compatible


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Rock, how has been the reaction from your wife?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Usually it means she's already got her side piece and feels guilty. It also usually means the love she had for you is gone. Dumping her is the first and best option. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Not that it really matters per se, because each marriage is different, and the only things that matter are what matters to the two people in the marriage, but the whole love and fidelity being the primary driver for marriage is a relatively recent phenomena. Historically, marriage is about property, financial, and line of succession rights.


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

In our case we started swinging way back before we got married. a few years into marriage, after our first child, we stopped swinging and it actually became an almost taboo subject. Then a couple years ago we were going thru a very difficult time and my wife almost left me for a mutual acquaintance. I never liked the guy before this, partially because I knew she had a crush on him for years since they grew up on the same street. Anyway we reconciled our differences and during the healing phase we were out one night and went back to some friends house to drink in the hot tub. there was a lot of "soft swap" but no one went all the way with anyone but their spouse. We realized then and there that we wanted to get back into swinging. We do prefer couples to swap with, but each of us is free to have sex with anyone we like even in a one on one situation. Our rule is the other spouse has final say, and that is stays just sex. If the other involved party tries to push for a mutual relationship, they just cut themselves off. 

She has a buddy that she meets for a quickie on occasion(I always know and often am there as a participant). Yesterday she ran into town to a morning meet up and to pick up donuts for us for breakfast. I honestly can't say which part held more excitement for me. LOL

Anyway, we don't consider ourselves "open" because to us that implies each being able to have an emotional relationship with an outside partner. To us we only desire sex with outside partners, anything else is off limits by mutual decision. Yes I see a woman or two as well, again she knows ahead of time and if she is bothered in any way it doesn't happen. So far this has worked great for us, though admittedly it would not for the majority of marriages.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

My wife and I were very active in the swinging lifestyle for many years. while swinging is a form or open marriage, in a number of ways it is quite different than what is typically thought of when the term "open marriage" is used. 

In our case it was something that we always did together as a part of our marital sexual dynamics. We had 3somes, couple-couple swaps and group sex together as a couple. 

We viewed it as something we did together as couple where we invited very select others into our marital bed (figuratively speaking) as another level of excitement and pleasure into out marital sexlife. 

Think of it like doubles tennis in the bedroom LOL

We did not date, have sex or have emotional relationships with other people on our own or as individuals. 

It was basically a sexually oriented hobby that we did together as a couple. Yes we did technically have sex with other people, but it was something we did together as a couple and the other people brought into our bedroom were basically an adjunct to our excitement and pleasure as a couple kind of like a couple may use toys/vibrators/dildos etc as an adjunct. 

And the other couples used us as adjuncts for their sexual excitement as a couple as well. 

I know some people will have an issue with that, but as it was something that was agreed upon and consensual amongst all parties, it was consenting adults all bringing an another level of fun and excitement into each others marriages. 

I'll be frank - it was awesome and it worked well for us and it worked well for many other couples as well. 

....and there were others that it was a disaster. 

The ones that it worked well for had many common themes and the ones that it was a disaster had many common themes as well. I will address those further in another post when I get a chance.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

happy2gether said:


> Anyway, we don't consider ourselves "open" because to us that implies each being able to have an emotional relationship with an outside partner.


There's a difference between polyamory and non-monogamy.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes, I don't consider myself in an open relationship nor would I want one. I have been with other men while with him. Literally with him there, and have ethically non-monogamous times but we have no relationships outside our times together. 
And I agree that for me too it was like a date between us or a hobby.

As for hotwifing being degrading, not all men who do it are cucks. There's no humiliation or degrading or shaming. I think some people use different terms to separate the 2. Sl*twife vs cuckholding. Sl*twives are happy with their partners, they just both enjoy being sexually adventurous and he likes watching her being a sexual person or sl*t. It's a very positive thing all around. 

It was more like a real life porn show for him with his favourite girl as the star and he could join in or just watch whenever he wanted 😊


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Not sure I could be in one.. Definitely both spouses would have to be on the same page with 'rules'. My friends, friend is married, great job, two kids, nice house, goes to church, has a date nights with her husband, etc... But she also has a lover whom she meets with often. Her husband knows and sometimes is there to watch. The lover is married and she doesn't know. But this type of relationship has been going on for years. They make it work.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Not that it really matters per se, because each marriage is different, and the only things that matter are what matters to the two people in the marriage, *but the whole love and fidelity being the primary driver for marriage is a relatively recent phenomena.* Historically, marriage is about property, financial, and line of succession rights.


Love and fidelity, while I do enjoy and appreciate those qualities in my husband, are not at the top of my list from what I seek from my marriage. I want honesty, integrity, dependability from a man who will work hard to support his family. I want a man who can hold up his end of the bargain, and do what he pledged to do. In my case, that is provide financial support to me and our children. In short, to do the "traditional" things a husband does. 

The love, meeting of my emotional needs, etc are all icing on the cake. He's not the most romantic guy, but he works very hard at our marriage in may ways, and he works tirelessly at being what I consider to be a "good man." 

Do I sometimes wish we were more "compatible" in the department of emotional needs? Sure, but we are not so incompatible that I'd give a moment's thought to leaving him. 

If he unilaterally decided to quit his job and not pay the bills, developed disastrous financial habits, became neglectful of our children, displayed dishonesty . . . then yeah, those are the deal breakers in my book. 

If he came to me and said he wanted to have another sexual partner, but still be married to me and continue being a husband and father as he's always been, then I'm not sure what I'd do, but I think I'd try to find a way to make it work instead of asking for a divorce. And I do believe 100% that he'd tell me of that sort of decision before acting on it. 

I do know that me asking for other sexual partners is a deal breaker for him. He'd divorce me quickly and without fuss if I told him I was going to go down that path. Non monogamy from me will always be non negotiable. That doesn't bother me. We're different, and the value we place on the various aspects of our marriage is different. 

And we can talk about it frankly, which is really nice. He always assures me that he's happy being monogamous to me, and that he understands my need to have a dependable husband. 

It's not that out "deal breaker" items are the ONLY things that matter to us, and that our happiness isn't affected by other areas of the marriage. But there is lots of room to work on those other things using compromise and tolerance and creativity. But those "deal breaker" areas just don't have any wiggle room.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

What I don't get is how people think this is perfectly fine if both partners agree but yet so many considered it "nasty" (yes, that word was used) that two committed, married people had sex while their kids were sleeping in the same room. More than 2 people having sex together seems at the very least to be extremely weak boundaries. I mean, where do you draw the line? Are you going to put the family dog in your sexual activity next?

On another note, hey @GettingIt_2! How've you been?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Why poor boundaries? Everything about it is keeping good boundaries. The boundaries may be different than another couples but they are staying within them. 

Another human to an animal is quite a jump. There's a lot of line before you get to that one.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Why poor boundaries?



Because you're married, which is a commitment. Between the two of you get as freaky as you want. But if you're going to be sleeping with other people, as someone said further up, just stay single.

I don't see much line left when you start veering off into group sex. YMMV


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

itsontherocks said:


> Something that has been circling my head for some time now. I've been in a few relationships and one marriage. When two people get married, they take sacred vows. Last time I checked, intimacy was one of them. I do not understand how one spouse can suggest open marriage, and the other spouse agree. It seems like a means to an end; not to mention a clear violation of the vows of marriage. If two people, who are in a union of marriage enter into an open marriage; what's the point? Usually, or at least in my case, the wife suggested it and just told me we just do not bring them home or discuss it with each other. I was so shocked at that, when she said what do you think, the only thing I could say is I think we should divorce. Clearly, there's no love left for me in your heart.
> 
> Is this becoming the norm? I see several topics on open marriages, and I just do not understand. Maybe I am missing something.




You nailed it.


Yes, its becoming the norm. Unfortunately.


People today see marriage more as a piece of paper and even when married, they still can justify and talk their way to have sex with others and commit adultery.


Open marriage to me isn't a marriage. Its someone who wants to have sex with other people and get away with it. I see it more like an open dating relationship and not marriage.


If your wife wants to sleep with other people, and suggests you can do the same, she already is doing this long ago. No longer a marriage and I would file for divorce pronto.


For richer poorer, sickness and in health, better or worse, etc........not I want to sleep with someone else and you can do the same. Really?!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

thefam said:


> What I don't get is how people think this is perfectly fine if both partners agree but yet so many considered it "nasty" (yes, that word was used) that two committed, married people had sex while their kids were sleeping in the same room. More than 2 people having sex together seems at the very least to be extremely weak boundaries. I mean, where do you draw the line? Are you going to put the family dog in your sexual activity next?
> 
> On another note, hey @GettingIt_2! How've you been?


I'm good, really good, @thefam. Thanks for asking. 

I lol'd with your "slippery slope" that went right from a threesome to sex with the dog. I have the feeling that some folks who describe sex in the same room with sleeping kids as "nasty" imagine disturbing slopes, too.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> You believe that the vows are sacred. Many people do not. And there are many people who do believe in the vows, but see marriage as a negotiable contract, not a limited and fixed one. Besides, if one partner is not willing or able to fully and properly fulfill their roles for intimacy and sex, the other partner may not be willing to put up with that. Morality is relative, and circumstantial
> 
> Anyway, this is unacceptable to you, and that's fine. You know your boundaries, and are enforcing them. What we don't know (do you?) is why your STBX asked for this, and did she have an issue with you that could have been corrected before she reached that point?


If you've ever been to family court, the "marriage contract" is not very negotiable. Thus, entering into one and not sticking to it has some very big consequences. As for us, we had no issues of sex until after the first year of marriage. She started to withdraw and it went dry. The therapist stated that we need to reconnect our bond, but she had zero interest. Can't draw blood from a turnip. She stated she was very attracted to me, but had zero interest in sex or anyone else. I didn't believe it and she knew offering up the open marriage option to me would have a negative response. She knows/knew how vehement opposed I am towards adultery.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You are assuming that it's just one person wanting it. A lot of relationships start open because that's what both people were looking for.
> 
> It would be a horrible situation if one person wanted it and made the other go along even though they didn't want it. Yes, that is disrespectful. But open marriages that work are because both spouses chose it and wanted it. No one being forced into it. They talk about it a lot and continue to make sure both are ok with it.
> 
> Also not everyone connects sex with a moral thing. For some sex is just sex. Neither person is wrong but together they are not compatible


Most, from what I researched online are forced in to it. One, threat of losing someone they "love". Two, financial disaster of a divorce. Three, loss of their kids/family unit. Maybe I am just old fashioned. However, if that is what the other person wanted, then there is/was no need for a marriage contract and joint assets. That would be some expensive side action.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Repeat that vows of intimacy because it does not exist. You vows never day you shall be monogamous as far as I know. I was in an open relationship with my live in girlfriend and she ended up in a relationship with one of my friends and asking for a gangbang because she never could get enough and needed validation that she was still as attractive as she was in her cheerleading days.

My marriage was nonmonogamous but it was not open either. My wife and I shared her best friend for much of our 45 years of marriage. No problems at all, not even an argument with our girlfriend. She knew her role in our marriage. My wife and our girlfriend are bisexual so it worked out well. However, the few couples we knew in an open marriage all got divorced for the same reason, one or both of the spouses wanted a divorce to be with their lover. In fact, our girlfriend got married eventually to a guy who was in an open marriage and lost his wife to her lover. He was thrilled that his new wife was with a stable couple with the male, me, being sterile. Less of a threat and he was right. We were in what is called a poly triad and it worked well during our 45 years of marriage. Just three people loving each other and meeting the needs that no two of us could.

I do not suggest open marriages. They are very difficult to maintain. There is a woman on YouTube who wrote a book on her open marriage but most of us would not be OK with our spouses opening dating and having sex with others, leaving you along on a Saturday night. Definitely not for alpha males like me who want all of the women to myself. My wife discovered her bisexuality later in life and did not want to date women or be romantic with them. She just wanted to have sex with a female that she had feelings for and lucky for us, her best friend is bi and we both knew her since we were teens. In fact we both on crushes on each other since we were 14.

Can an open marriage work, yes, but your odds of lasting long are much higher than the divorce rate. Read the following to at least get an understanding of why some couples are turning to open marriages or even just non monogamy because obviously regular marriage is not working so well. Take away love which blinds us to the negatives and you have people taking a 50/50 chance on a lifetime commitment that end very badly for half of them no matter how much they think it does not apply to them. Would you buy something you never owned before and costs half of everything you now have and will have in the future, if there was a 50/50 chance of it not working as advertised? That is what we do when we marry. Take away love and most will not marry as it is just too risky. Read my signature below and that is what most people do. They rather go down with the monogamy ship than get aboard a different one.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/magazine/is-an-open-marriage-a-happier-marriage.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201310/the-curious-couples-guide-occasional-non-monogamy
Why My Husband & I Sometimes Have Sex With Other People - mindbodygreen
Polyamory: When three isn't a crowd - CNN
Rethinking monogamy today - CNN

And the woman who is on YouTube and written a book or two.:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

itsontherocks said:


> Something that has been circling my head for some time now. I've been in a few relationships and one marriage. When two people get married, they take sacred vows. Last time I checked, intimacy was one of them. I do not understand how one spouse can suggest open marriage, and the other spouse agree. It seems like a means to an end; not to mention a clear violation of the vows of marriage. If two people, who are in a union of marriage enter into an open marriage; what's the point? Usually, or at least in my case, the wife suggested it and just told me we just do not bring them home or discuss it with each other. I was so shocked at that, when she said what do you think, the only thing I could say is I think we should divorce. Clearly, there's no love left for me in your heart.
> 
> Is this becoming the norm? I see several topics on open marriages, and I just do not understand. Maybe I am missing something.


I agree with you, what sort of marriage is it when there is no faithfulness or the keeping of promises made? However, I am sure its not the norm. I don't know anyone who has an open marriage, but sadly moral values are still going down and what is becoming acceptable is worse and worse. Very sad.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Rock, how has been the reaction from your wife?


We've not spoken in over a year. I filed for divorce. Wasn't just this, it was a host of issues. This was just the last straw.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Vinnydee said:


> Repeat that vows of intimacy because it does not exist. You vows never day you shall be monogamous as far as I know. I was in an open relationship with my live in girlfriend and she ended up in a relationship with one of my friends and asking for a gangbang because she never could get enough and needed validation that she was still as attractive as she was in her cheerleading days.
> 
> My marriage was nonmonogamous but it was not open either. My wife and I shared her best friend for much of our 45 years of marriage. No problems at all, not even an argument with our girlfriend. She knew her role in our marriage. My wife and our girlfriend are bisexual so it worked out well. However, the few couples we knew in an open marriage all got divorced for the same reason, one or both of the spouses wanted a divorce to be with their lover. In fact, our girlfriend got married eventually to a guy who was in an open marriage and lost his wife to her lover. He was thrilled that his new wife was with a stable couple with the male, me, being sterile. Less of a threat and he was right. We were in what is called a poly triad and it worked well during our 45 years of marriage. Just three people loving each other and meeting the needs that no two of us could.
> 
> ...


'Forsaking all others'. Thats faithfulness.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Usually it means she's already got her side piece and feels guilty. It also usually means the love she had for you is gone. Dumping her is the first and best option.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Completely agree.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> Not that it really matters per se, because each marriage is different, and the only things that matter are what matters to the two people in the marriage, but the whole love and fidelity being the primary driver for marriage is a relatively recent phenomena. Historically, marriage is about property, financial, and line of succession rights.


Rest assured, if and when the open marriage fails, the spouse with more assets will feel the pain of lost of not only their spouse, but of their property, financial well being and family.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

cc48kel said:


> Not sure I could be in one.. Definitely both spouses would have to be on the same page with 'rules'. My friends, friend is married, great job, two kids, nice house, goes to church, has a date nights with her husband, etc... But she also has a lover whom she meets with often. Her husband knows and sometimes is there to watch. The lover is married and she doesn't know. But this type of relationship has been going on for years. They make it work.


How very sad for the OM's wife. Also sad that she thinks its ok to go to church and act that way.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

happy2gether said:


> In our case we started swinging way back before we got married. a few years into marriage, after our first child, we stopped swinging and it actually became an almost taboo subject. Then a couple years ago we were going thru a very difficult time and my wife almost left me for a mutual acquaintance. I never liked the guy before this, partially because I knew she had a crush on him for years since they grew up on the same street. Anyway we reconciled our differences and during the healing phase we were out one night and went back to some friends house to drink in the hot tub. there was a lot of "soft swap" but no one went all the way with anyone but their spouse. We realized then and there that we wanted to get back into swinging. We do prefer couples to swap with, but each of us is free to have sex with anyone we like even in a one on one situation. Our rule is the other spouse has final say, and that is stays just sex. If the other involved party tries to push for a mutual relationship, they just cut themselves off.
> 
> She has a buddy that she meets for a quickie on occasion(I always know and often am there as a participant). Yesterday she ran into town to a morning meet up and to pick up donuts for us for breakfast. I honestly can't say which part held more excitement for me. LOL
> 
> Anyway, we don't consider ourselves "open" because to us that implies each being able to have an emotional relationship with an outside partner. To us we only desire sex with outside partners, anything else is off limits by mutual decision. Yes I see a woman or two as well, again she knows ahead of time and if she is bothered in any way it doesn't happen. So far this has worked great for us, though admittedly it would not for the majority of marriages.


Well, you guys are from the swinging culture. I do not know much about it, but people who tend to start out one way, tend to eventually go back to what feels good and right by them. There is nothing wrong with that. However, that is a bit different than starting a monogamous relationship, and then 2, 4, 6, 10, 15 years later request/demand an open marriage.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> Most, from what I researched online are forced in to it. One, threat of losing someone they "love". Two, financial disaster of a divorce. Three, loss of their kids/family unit. Maybe I am just old fashioned. However, if that is what the other person wanted, then there is/was no need for a marriage contract and joint assets. That would be some expensive side action.


All the open couples I know are both on board as are the couples I read about in various websites and blogs for more kinky type relationships. It just depends where you're looking I guess. 

People marry for tons of reasons. Not everyone has monogamy as one of those reasons.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

itsontherocks said:


> If you've ever been to family court, the "marriage contract" is not very negotiable. Thus, entering into one and not sticking to it has some very big consequences. As for us, we had no issues of sex until after the first year of marriage. She started to withdraw and it went dry. The therapist stated that we need to reconnect our bond, but she had zero interest. Can't draw blood from a turnip. She stated she was very attracted to me, but had zero interest in sex or anyone else. I didn't believe it and she knew offering up the open marriage option to me would have a negative response. She knows/knew how vehement opposed I am towards adultery.


That's only true if it gets to family court. If both parties in the marriage agree, anything goes. Family court comes into play when the parties wish to dissolve the marriage.

My ex started to withdraw, too, and sex dried up in the first year. Nothing we did repaired the connection. She probably had an affair many years later, and by then I was done with her and divorced her. Now, my attitude (and agreement with my wife) is that we can seek sex elsewhere if either of us can't or won't have sex - we just have to tell each other first that we're planning to exercise that option. I won't ever be in a sexless relationship again, and she won't either.

For what it's worth, I respect that you have boundaries and enforced them according to your values and principles. Mine/ours are different, and mutually acceptable to us. Where we differ in opinion is that it is okay to have these different standards and boundaries - and even different vows - while still conforming to the legalities of marriage.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> As for hotwifing being degrading, not all men who do it are cucks. There's no humiliation or degrading or shaming. I think some people use different terms to separate the 2. Sl*twife vs cuckholding. Sl*twives are happy with their partners, they just both enjoy being sexually adventurous and he likes watching her being a sexual person or sl*t. It's a very positive thing all around.


I disagree. However, to each his own. The man is a **** who encourages his wife to get drilled by many strangers. Again, to each his or her own. I know, I would be very upset to find another man inside my then wife. If I actually walked in on them having sex, I wouldn't want to know what I'd do to the guy. This guy handled it better than I would had.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

cc48kel said:


> Not sure I could be in one.. Definitely both spouses would have to be on the same page with 'rules'. My friends, friend is married, great job, two kids, nice house, goes to church, has a date nights with her husband, etc... But she also has a lover whom she meets with often. Her husband knows and sometimes is there to watch. The lover is married and she doesn't know. But this type of relationship has been going on for years. They make it work.



Yea, he's afraid to lose it all. He has ballless man syndrome.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

GettingIt_2 said:


> Love and fidelity, while I do enjoy and appreciate those qualities in my husband, are not at the top of my list from what I seek from my marriage. I want honesty, integrity, dependability from a man who will work hard to support his family. I want a man who can hold up his end of the bargain, and do what he pledged to do. In my case, that is provide financial support to me and our children. In short, to do the "traditional" things a husband does.
> 
> The love, meeting of my emotional needs, etc are all icing on the cake. He's not the most romantic guy, but he works very hard at our marriage in may ways, and he works tirelessly at being what I consider to be a "good man."
> 
> ...


Seems like you have a good guy. Congrats. :grin2:


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

thefam said:


> What I don't get is how people think this is perfectly fine if both partners agree but yet so many considered it "nasty" (yes, that word was used) that two committed, married people had sex while their kids were sleeping in the same room. More than 2 people having sex together seems at the very least to be extremely weak boundaries. I mean, where do you draw the line? Are you going to put the family dog in your sexual activity next?
> 
> On another note, hey @GettingIt_2! How've you been?


I guess it depends on the age.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

itsontherocks said:


> Most, from what I researched online are forced in to it. One, threat of losing someone they "love". Two, financial disaster of a divorce. Three, loss of their kids/family unit. Maybe I am just old fashioned. However, if that is what the other person wanted, then there is/was no need for a marriage contract and joint assets. That would be some expensive side action.


Life is full of really, really hard choices. But choices, nonetheless. Marriage can be a risky proposition, with a high likelihood that hard choices are going to have to be made. I guess that was my point about "deal breakers." I'm shocked at what some folks put up with and *still* choose to stay married. And I'm shocked at the reasons some folks walk away from their marriages. Everyone's different.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

CuddleBug said:


> You nailed it.
> 
> 
> Yes, its becoming the norm. Unfortunately.
> ...


Too risky marriage with outside interference. I had GPS and VARs in her car and in her bag; access to her phone and FB. Unless they were screwing at work, there was no way to prove it. I would had liked to file for divorce due to fault basis (adultery), but I couldn't prove it. Thus, it was a no-fault divorce.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

CuddleBug said:


> You nailed it.
> 
> 
> Yes, its becoming the norm. Unfortunately.
> ...





Vinnydee said:


> Repeat that vows of intimacy because it does not exist. You vows never day you shall be monogamous as far as I know. I was in an open relationship with my live in girlfriend and she ended up in a relationship with one of my friends and asking for a gangbang because she never could get enough and needed validation that she was still as attractive as she was in her cheerleading days.
> 
> My marriage was nonmonogamous but it was not open either. My wife and I shared her best friend for much of our 45 years of marriage. No problems at all, not even an argument with our girlfriend. She knew her role in our marriage. My wife and our girlfriend are bisexual so it worked out well. However, the few couples we knew in an open marriage all got divorced for the same reason, one or both of the spouses wanted a divorce to be with their lover. In fact, our girlfriend got married eventually to a guy who was in an open marriage and lost his wife to her lover. He was thrilled that his new wife was with a stable couple with the male, me, being sterile. Less of a threat and he was right. We were in what is called a poly triad and it worked well during our 45 years of marriage. Just three people loving each other and meeting the needs that no two of us could.
> 
> ...


The vows have trust, loyalty and honor (yours prob. had obey as well). If a spouse is sleeping with another person, then those are violated in the house of G-d as well as those vows both had taken. 

To each their own. There is no need to sign a marriage contract in this day and age if one spouse will promote an open marriage. The risks are just far too great.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I agree with you, what sort of marriage is it when there is no faithfulness or the keeping of promises made? However, I am sure its not the norm. I don't know anyone who has an open marriage, but sadly moral values are still going down and what is becoming acceptable is worse and worse. Very sad.


Completely agree. I do not know where society is heading, but the morals are becoming existent. Welcome to the me first society. I guess I was raised differently.

At one time, it was an honor and privaliage to be married. Now, it's just a phase or part of life people go through. There's little meaning behind it. That's very sad.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> All the open couples I know are both on board as are the couples I read about in various websites and blogs for more kinky type relationships. It just depends where you're looking I guess.
> 
> People marry for tons of reasons. Not everyone has monogamy as one of those reasons.


Then they shouldn't marry in this day an age. I do not believe most marry for a bang buddy. Then again, perhaps I am wrong. I do not know everything.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> I disagree. However, to each his own. The man is a **** who encourages his wife to get drilled by many strangers. Again, to each his or her own. I know, I would be very upset to find another man inside my then wife. If I actually walked in on them having sex, I wouldn't want to know what I'd do to the guy. This guy handled it better than I would had.]


There is no "walking in" as it's all done in the open with the spouse aware and present. **** implies shaming or humiliation being involved. It's just not a part of everyone's hotwifing/sl*twife dynamics. My man remains my Dom through all of it and I his sub. He's never treated poorly and he calls all the shots. I am serving him first and foremost by doing it. That's our dynamic. He likes training me to be, well a sl*t but in a very positive and sexually accepting way. He'll have me say thank you to the man and I'll get a "good girl" and move on to the next and everyone is happy. My confidence is higher then ever, our relationship is more closely bonded than before. It's a happy time all around. 

There are all kinds of other dynamics and reasons. 
It is also one of the fastest growing interests according to porn stats. So lots of men and women enjoy at least the fantasy of it.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> That's only true if it gets to family court. If both parties in the marriage agree, anything goes. Family court comes into play when the parties wish to dissolve the marriage.
> 
> My ex started to withdraw, too, and sex dried up in the first year. Nothing we did repaired the connection. She probably had an affair many years later, and by then I was done with her and divorced her. Now, my attitude (and agreement with my wife) is that we can seek sex elsewhere if either of us can't or won't have sex - we just have to tell each other first that we're planning to exercise that option. I won't ever be in a sexless relationship again, and she won't either.
> 
> For what it's worth, I respect that you have boundaries and enforced them according to your values and principles. Mine/ours are different, and mutually acceptable to us. Where we differ in opinion is that it is okay to have these different standards and boundaries - and even different vows - while still conforming to the legalities of marriage.


To each his or her own. I do not think I'd be able to handle that. Just feels like a violation. Perhaps, I take the love, respect, trust and honor too far. Perhaps, I am not of reality that things change in terms of love and lust. However, I am who I am. I do not judge others who are okay with it. I just do not get it.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

GettingIt_2 said:


> Life is full of really, really hard choices. But choices, nonetheless. Marriage can be a risky proposition, with a high likelihood that hard choices are going to have to be made. I guess that was my point about "deal breakers." I'm shocked at what some folks put up with and *still* choose to stay married. And I'm shocked at the reasons some folks walk away from their marriages. Everyone's different.


Goes back to morals. What one person can stand. I draw the line at trust, honor and respect. People go in and out of love, but the basis of trust honor and respect need to be in any relationship in order for it to work.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> To each his or her own. I do not think I'd be able to handle that. Just feels like a violation. Perhaps, I take the love, respect, trust and honor too far. Perhaps, I am not of reality that things change in terms of love and lust. However, I am who I am. I do not judge others who are okay with it. I just do not get it.


It's totally 100% ok to want and demand and expect a monogamous relationship. That hasn't changed and there are still tons and tons of people in the same boat to choose from. 
It's totally 100% ok to not get it and not want anything to do with it. There are many forms on non-monogamy that I'm not ok with at all. No discussion, hard limit. I'd leave if my partner needed them. 
Everyone makes their own choices, boundaries and limits and it's all ok.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> There is no "walking in" as it's all done in the open with the spouse aware and present. **** implies shaming or humiliation being involved. It's just not a part of everyone's hotwifing/sl*twife dynamics. My man remains my Dom through all of it and I his sub. He's never treated poorly and he calls all the shots. I am serving him first and foremost by doing it. That's our dynamic. He likes training me to be, well a sl*t but in a very positive and sexually accepting way. He'll have me say thank you to the man and I'll get a "good girl" and move on to the next and everyone is happy. My confidence is higher then ever, our relationship is more closely bonded than before. It's a happy time all around.
> 
> There are all kinds of other dynamics and reasons.
> It is also one of the fastest growing interests according to porn stats. So lots of men and women enjoy at least the fantasy of it.


Sounds like an oxymoronic POV. To each their own. If that is what makes you and your spouse happy, go for it. However, what I am stating is pretty clear. If both go into a marriage against adultery, and then, years down the line offers up an open marriage; then they have problems. It may sound spicy at first, but trust when I say there are underlining problems. Perhaps the spouse gets a initial high for having the green light in bonking other people. However, they will continue to chase the dragon and realize that same high will never be reached again. Then there are the risks. More for women then men. HPV, Herpes, HIV, etc. Some of those take time to appear on the STD report. Or, they can doctor the report. Why take the risk?

Seems foolish and a very haphazard way of life. There is a reason why the STD/STI reports are rising every year. I guess people have to weigh the risks. Incurable painful infection or to climax with another person.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It's totally 100% ok to want and demand and expect a monogamous relationship. That hasn't changed and there are still tons and tons of people in the same boat to choose from.
> It's totally 100% ok to not get it and not want anything to do with it. There are many forms on non-monogamy that I'm not ok with at all. No discussion, hard limit. I'd leave if my partner needed them.
> Everyone makes their own choices, boundaries and limits and it's all ok.


The dating pool is a cesspool. I do not know which is worse. Being married to a person who doesn't love, respect, honor and trust you. Or, jump into a sea of toxic sludge. Catch-22 scenario.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

itsontherocks said:


> Goes back to morals. What one person can stand. I draw the line at trust, honor and respect. People go in and out of love, but the basis of trust honor and respect need to be in any relationship in order for it to work.


I absolutely agree with you. I would never ask or expect my husband to stay in this marriage if it violated his core sense of values. And he would never expect me to to that, either. 

Before I would lie to him, I would leave. And he would do the same. 

I would want him to come to me if he chose to become non monogamous so we could talk about it and I could make my choice about whether to accept that, or to dissolve the marriage. For me, the circumstances and his reasons would matter. 

For him, I know my non monogamy would be a deal breaker, so going to him and telling him I've made that choice would be the same thing as asking for a divorce. He's already made that abundantly clear, and I'm fine with that.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

That is assuming both are going into it expecting monogamy and then changing their minds. 

Many open couples have always been open and it's been discussed since day 1. At very least had some kind of discussion about how important monogamy is to them and if it's an absolute deal breaker or something with some wiggle room. 

I have wiggle room. A small amount of wiggle room. I have a lot that is no go and I'm very clear about it. I think it's a good idea to talk about these things with any new partner. 

Dating isn't so bad. I found there were all kinds out there. You just have to know yourself, your needs and deal breakers and not settle. 

There would be many lovely women who want 100% monogamy.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> That is assuming both are going into it expecting monogamy and then changing their minds.
> 
> Many open couples have always been open and it's been discussed since day 1. At very least had some kind of discussion about how important monogamy is to them and if it's an absolute deal breaker or something with some wiggle room.
> 
> ...


I would gather, if two people are looking to spend the rest of their lives together; it's doubtful they had the talk well, we're can also bang other people too. There really is little point.

As for dating... The dating world is much different for men than it is for women.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> I would gather, if two people are looking to spend the rest of their lives together; it's doubtful they had the talk well, we're can also bang other people too. There really is little point.
> 
> As for dating... The dating world is much different for men than it is for women.


For poly people they absolutely do have that conversation. The whole thing works because they communicate. They are looking for compatiblity so they are open about what they want. 

When I met my bf we went through a whole list of sexual yes and no during our first date. We do hope to spend the rest of our lives together, we are also super open about sexual activities we enjoy. It would have been pointless to continue with a relationship if we weren't compatible. 

For me I feel the opposite, how could you plan a life with someone and *not* tell them what you want and like?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> For poly people they absolutely do have that conversation. The whole thing works because they communicate. They are looking for compatiblity so they are open about what they want.
> 
> When I met my bf we went through a whole list of sexual yes and no during our first date. We do hope to spend the rest of our lives together, we are also super open about sexual activities we enjoy. It would have been pointless to continue with a relationship if we weren't compatible.
> 
> For me I feel the opposite, how could you plan a life with someone and *not* tell them what you want and like?



IMO, that type of open and honest conversation shouldn't ever be limited to those seeking non-monogamy. Most relationships, of any type, only really work because the partners communicate and determine compatibility. I'm one of those people who insists on a 100% monogamous relationship. But I, too, see no point in planning a life with someone that I haven't had important conversations about sexual compatibility with. If you're planning on spending weeks, months, years, decades of your life with someone, it's vitally important to ascertain whether or not you're compatible before you start down that road. Otherwise, you could be in for a world of hurt later.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> That is assuming both are going into it expecting monogamy and then changing their minds.
> 
> Many open couples have always been open and it's been discussed since day 1. At very least had some kind of discussion about how important monogamy is to them and if it's an absolute deal breaker or something with some wiggle room.
> 
> ...


My wife also has some wiggle room, in that she would be accepting of non monogamy in certain circumstances. Myself, not so much. It's an absolute deal breaker for me.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

itsontherocks said:


> Something that has been circling my head for some time now. I've been in a few relationships and one marriage. When two people get married, they take sacred vows. Last time I checked, intimacy was one of them. I do not understand how one spouse can suggest open marriage, and the other spouse agree. It seems like a means to an end; not to mention a clear violation of the vows of marriage. If two people, who are in a union of marriage enter into an open marriage; what's the point? Usually, or at least in my case, the wife suggested it and just told me we just do not bring them home or discuss it with each other. I was so shocked at that, when she said what do you think, the only thing I could say is I think we should divorce. Clearly, there's no love left for me in your heart.
> 
> Is this becoming the norm? I see several topics on open marriages, and I just do not understand. Maybe I am missing something.


I almost got asked for an open marriage. My husband was trying to rationalize his actions online. (He was looking for dates, and starting to want a REAL hook up. chatting was quickly becoming not enough. He ended up asking Other woman 3 or 4....dont know which exactly but she was the stripper who blogs about polyamory. I will give her some credit, she took him to task about not understanding poly. He thought he was Poly and was trying to find out how to do it all, but she told him he was just a cheater and he did not respect or exhibit polyamorous behavior. She challenged him to tell me about it all and be honest with me. He chose to NOT listen. 

I found out about his cheating about a year almost later. Then when i was more interested in an open marriage (I was mad, not actually interested in the lifestyle) he didnt want it anymore. He didnt want to loose the chance at a healthy monogomous relationship. Interesting.... hu? Truth was the Open marriage thing came about because he wanted to cheat without being a BAD GUY. not because he actually wanted an open marriage. He did not want me to be doing the same thing.... 

I reserve my full judgement on open marriages... But i think most going into it are naive.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> Is this becoming the norm? I see several topics on open marriages, and I just do not understand. Maybe I am missing something.


Just like developments with understanding gender identity today in society, I have to imagine in a few more years that answering questions like, "are you married" will no longer be a simple yes or no answer.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

itsontherocks said:


> Completely agree. I do not know where society is heading, but the morals are becoming existent. Welcome to the me first society. I guess I was raised differently.
> 
> At one time, it was an honor and privaliage to be married. Now, it's just a phase or part of life people go through. There's little meaning behind it. That's very sad.


Maybe its also how we are bought up? I was brought to up to have good moral values and taught that marriage was special and important. I could never think of treating my husband with such disrespect as to suggest that we include adultery. I know that adultery always has bad consequences sooner or later.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Maybe its also how we are bought up? I was brought to up to have good moral values and taught that marriage was special and important. I could never think of treating my husband with such disrespect as to suggest that we include adultery. I know that adultery always has bad consequences sooner or later.


Adultery without open and honest communication and trust, respect, boundaries, etc will have bad consequences but many people have very successful marriages that aren't 100% monogamous with nothing disrespectful about it. 
Morals are subjective. Not everyone shares the same ones.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Maybe i misunderstand the premise behind an open marriage, but isn't the purpose of an open marriage is to extend the excitement of an already solid and good marriage...i mean to say that if your marriage has a good foundation, that you both love each other, respect each other, but perhaps years have taken its toll on the excitement aspect of sexual enjoyment that you want to open up the bedroom a bit to allow both parties to experience outside efforts but to bring that back that excitement to the other...otherwise why stay in the marriage?

if your wife was not interested in sex or at least with you, but open to having sex with others...where is the benefit to the marriage...that in itself defeats the whole concept of open marriage does it not? at that point why stay married?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Maybe i misunderstand the premise behind an open marriage, but isn't the purpose of an open marriage is to extend the excitement of an already solid and good marriage...i mean to say that if your marriage has a good foundation, that you both love each other, respect each other, but perhaps years have taken its toll on the excitement aspect of sexual enjoyment that you want to open up the bedroom a bit to allow both parties to experience outside efforts but to bring that back that excitement to the other...otherwise why stay in the marriage?
> 
> if your wife was not interested in sex or at least with you, but open to having sex with others...where is the benefit to the marriage...that in itself defeats the whole concept of open marriage does it not? at that point why stay married?


You are correct about the premise behind an open marriage, for the ones that usually work as intended.

Your second scenario does defeat the concept, as you say, unless _both_ don't particularly want sex with each other, but have some major reasons to keep the relationship together even so. If both get this need met elsewhere, they can be content and stay married, perhaps for the kids.

The most typical scenario (aside from your first one), is when someone is in a sexless marriage and the partner wanting sex negotiates the option of finding it elsewhere. The uninterested partner is usually LD (or may have developed a chronic illness that prevents - or greatly limits - sexual expression) and does not seek sex elsewhere. The deprived partner may not want to end the marriage for the lack of one important need (as many say, everything _else_ is great), so if their partner agrees, they can fulfill the need and maintain the marriage. Sometimes these semi-open marriages fall apart later if someone more compatible is found, but often they can continue this way indefinitely.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Rowan said:


> IMO, that type of open and honest conversation shouldn't ever be limited to those seeking non-monogamy. Most relationships, of any type, only really work because the partners communicate and determine compatibility. I'm one of those people who insists on a 100% monogamous relationship. But I, too, see no point in planning a life with someone that I haven't had important conversations about sexual compatibility with. If you're planning on spending weeks, months, years, decades of your life with someone, it's vitally important to ascertain whether or not you're compatible before you start down that road. Otherwise, you could be in for a world of hurt later.


Agreed, however, it's funny that somethings that were first agreed to change over time. I recall twice, my ex-wife was complaining about how I've always been a certain way, but wanted me to change. This conversation was between her and her parents (through VAR). She liked to rewrite history to fit story time about things that never happened or happened completely differently. She claimed to her parents that I thought it's was all in her head; they actually agreed and said, what if it is? 

Another time, we were discussing adultery with her parents because a family friend of theirs was caught cheating. My then wife and myself always seemed to be on the same page with adultery. Yet, during this conversation, she sided with the adulterer. I knew then we had serious problems. Lesson learned was that just because two people agree on something, doesn't mean both parties will not change their mind. Well, in this case, one. 

This is not a religious issue for me, it's a moral issue. Yet, my ex-wife was very religious. Who would had thought that a more religious person would be loosy goosy with intimacy.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

threelittlestars said:


> I almost got asked for an open marriage. My husband was trying to rationalize his actions online. (He was looking for dates, and starting to want a REAL hook up. chatting was quickly becoming not enough. He ended up asking Other woman 3 or 4....dont know which exactly but she was the stripper who blogs about polyamory. I will give her some credit, she took him to task about not understanding poly. He thought he was Poly and was trying to find out how to do it all, but she told him he was just a cheater and he did not respect or exhibit polyamorous behavior. She challenged him to tell me about it all and be honest with me. He chose to NOT listen.
> 
> I found out about his cheating about a year almost later. Then when i was more interested in an open marriage (I was mad, not actually interested in the lifestyle) he didnt want it anymore. He didnt want to loose the chance at a healthy monogomous relationship. Interesting.... hu? Truth was the Open marriage thing came about because he wanted to cheat without being a BAD GUY. not because he actually wanted an open marriage. He did not want me to be doing the same thing....
> 
> I reserve my full judgement on open marriages... But i think most going into it are naive.


Surprised you stayed with him.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

To be fair OP, it doesn't sound like your wife wanted an open marriage as much as she wanted to cheat and get away with it. Big difference. 

An open marriage has specific boundaries and rules. There is open communication and negotiation and it continues to be talked about. There is no secrets or dishonesty. 

Your wife just said lets sleep with other people and not tell each other about it. That's just her wanting to sleep with someone else so she says you can too.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> The most typical scenario (aside from your first one), is when someone is in a sexless marriage and the partner wanting sex negotiates the option of finding it elsewhere. The uninterested partner is usually LD (or may have developed a chronic illness that prevents - or greatly limits - sexual expression) and does not seek sex elsewhere. The deprived partner may not want to end the marriage for the lack of one important need (as many say, everything _else_ is great), so if their partner agrees, they can fulfill the need and maintain the marriage. Sometimes these semi-open marriages fall apart later if someone more compatible is found, but often they can continue this way indefinitely.


Too be honest, we had a sexless marriage, and it may had been an option in her head to keep me around if she okay'd sex with other women. Or, a trap to use against me. However, she's always known my stance against adultery. I am not sure why she offered it. I honestly felt that she was basically telling me I am not good enough to be intimate with; so go find it somewhere else. I do not think she would had thought I'd file for divorce. I doubt she even remembers offering it to me. To me, it just proved me that this marriage is dead and unable to be saved.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Some marriages are not worth saving. I usually think sexless marriages are not, unless _both_ people are okay with that. My first marriage was largely sexless - I left, because that wasn't acceptable to me.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

itsontherocks said:


> Surprised you stayed with him.


Well its complicated. I was married 8 years and together 10 at the time of discovery. A 7 month old baby, and two older boys 3 and 6 at the time. I have a heart condition, I am unemployed and have been since becoming a mother. A lot of things put me in paralysis for like 2 years.

He has only had sex with me and only me. Im the same, he is my one and only. 

I have not just stayed with him. We separated for about a month and were separated by distance for 4 months after d-day. He has had a polygraph etc.... Its not as simple as "Stayed with him" because i dont feel I stayed put. I was all over the place for years. Im on year three now.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> Too be honest, we had a sexless marriage, and it may had been an option in her head to keep me around if she okay'd sex with other women. Or, a trap to use against me. However, she's always known my stance against adultery. I am not sure why she offered it. I honestly felt that she was basically telling me I am not good enough to be intimate with; so go find it somewhere else. I do not think she would had thought I'd file for divorce. I doubt she even remembers offering it to me. To me, it just proved me that this marriage is dead and unable to be saved.


Sexless due to her refusing or you? 

If she was refusing sex with you and asking to sleep with other men, then you're right. Marriage was just over. She's not into you and likely never would be. 

If it was you refusing sex then I can understand more her asking


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Adultery without open and honest communication and trust, respect, boundaries, etc will have bad consequences but many people have very successful marriages that aren't 100% monogamous with nothing disrespectful about it.
> Morals are subjective. Not everyone shares the same ones.


Adultery of any sort will eventually have bad consequences. It may not be for years but it will. 
For me even suggesting such a thing is completely unloving and disrespectful to the man I love and promised to be faithful to when I married him. Not that he would ever agree to it anyway, he isn't like that.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Adultery of any sort will eventually have bad consequences. It may not be for years but it will.
> For me even suggesting such a thing is completely unloving and disrespectful to the man I love and promised to be faithful to when I married him. Not that he would ever agree to it anyway, he isn't like that.


You have to understand that not everyone is you and your husband. People have different feelings about sex and marriage and it isn't disrectful at all to them. 

And many have done it successfully their whole lives without issue. It's just not a given that it will cause problems. For some it helps and brings them closer. 
Some poly people would never be in a mono marriage. It's just not what they want. A mono marriage would eventually hurt them


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

threelittlestars said:


> Well its complicated. I was married 8 years and together 10 at the time of discovery. A 7 month old baby, and two older boys 3 and 6 at the time. I have a heart condition, I am unemployed and have been since becoming a mother. A lot of things put me in paralysis for like 2 years.
> 
> He has only had sex with me and only me. Im the same, he is my one and only.
> 
> I have not just stayed with him. We separated for about a month and were separated by distance for 4 months after d-day. He has had a polygraph etc.... Its not as simple as "Stayed with him" because i dont feel I stayed put. I was all over the place for years. Im on year three now.


As long as it works for both of you. That's the important part.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Sexless due to her refusing or you?
> 
> If she was refusing sex with you and asking to sleep with other men, then you're right. Marriage was just over. She's not into you and likely never would be.
> 
> If it was you refusing sex then I can understand more her asking


Yes, she refused me dozens of times. I cannot confirm she was sleeping with other men. I can say her therapists' said it was a bad sign. I guess they were right.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Adultery of any sort will eventually have bad consequences. It may not be for years but it will.
> For me even suggesting such a thing is completely unloving and disrespectful to the man I love and promised to be faithful to when I married him. Not that he would ever agree to it anyway, he isn't like that.


Bingo. Unfortunately, people nowadays like options. It may be true that we're moving into a world where people have many partners they "love"; more like lust.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You have to understand that not everyone is you and your husband. People have different feelings about sex and marriage and it isn't disrectful at all to them.
> 
> And many have done it successfully their whole lives without issue. It's just not a given that it will cause problems. For some it helps and brings them closer.
> Some poly people would never be in a mono marriage. It's just not what they want. A mono marriage would eventually hurt them


Who has done it their whole lives without issue?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Who has done it their whole lives without issue?


I know some poly people who've been in 20+ year poly relationships. Others who have had a few long-term poly relationships that have ended amicably when they've run their course. My own current relationship was originally poly for a few years until our other partners moved on to relationships that better met their needs (they are still very close friends), and our core relationship has also been open for 17 years. A lifetime? Not yet, but it seems likely that it will continue in the same pattern, although we will probably slow down as we get older, and finding other compatible partners becomes more difficult. We've outlasted many more traditional relationships (and can be very happy if it's just the two of us), while also having a better relationship than most traditional relationships. Or just as good, anyway, as it makes US happy - we don't care if others don't like our successful relationship model, just as others probably don't care what we think of them and theirs.

I'm not putting down traditional monogamy, but I am saying that there are many other relationship models that work well for some people, because not everyone is the same, or wants/needs the same things. Variety IS the spice of life! Diversity is a wonderful thing, and enriches all our lives.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Who has done it their whole lives without issue?


Open marriages have been around for a very long time. They aren't new. There's not even that much more of them than before. People are just more open these days to talking about it and the internet lets you see into people's lives in ways you couldn't before. 

I personally know a few in their 60s who are happier than ever after 40+ years.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

I feel like my wife and I are just not sexually compatible. No matter how much she says she loves me it just doesn't come across during sex. We have sex routinely, and at times it's been very good, but for most of our marriage she's clearly not engaged and I don't think attracted to me sexually. So for me in this situation I either want a divorce, or the OK to seek out someone who I can have that connection and bond with, someone who wants to screw me after a night out, oral and not complain about it "but I'll do it if you want". We have a lot of stuff integrated into our marriage, divorce would be lengthy, expensive, and damaging in a lot of ways to us and our kids. If she doesn't desire me sexually then I'm just a friend, so why care if I engage in sex outside the marriage?

I used to think an open marriage is crazy, but now I'm changing my tune on it.

I don't believe there's a solution for most sexual issues in a marriage, especially when one spouse just doesn't want the other sexually, that doesn't come back. So an open marriage may be a good alternative to divorce and breaking the family apart.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Open marriages have been around for a very long time. They aren't new. There's not even that much more of them than before. People are just more open these days to talking about it and the internet lets you see into people's lives in ways you couldn't before.
> 
> I personally know a few in their 60s who are happier than ever after 40+ years.


 I have never met anyone who was happy with adultery in their marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

knobcreek said:


> I feel like my wife and I are just not sexually compatible. No matter how much she says she loves me it just doesn't come across during sex. We have sex routinely, and at times it's been very good, but for most of our marriage she's clearly not engaged and I don't think attracted to me sexually. So for me in this situation I either want a divorce, or the OK to seek out someone who I can have that connection and bond with, someone who wants to screw me after a night out, oral and not complain about it "but I'll do it if you want". We have a lot of stuff integrated into our marriage, divorce would be lengthy, expensive, and damaging in a lot of ways to us and our kids. If she doesn't desire me sexually then I'm just a friend, so why care if I engage in sex outside the marriage?
> 
> I used to think an open marriage is crazy, but now I'm changing my tune on it.
> 
> I don't believe there's a solution for most sexual issues in a marriage, especially when one spouse just doesn't want the other sexually, that doesn't come back. So an open marriage may be a good alternative to divorce and breaking the family apart.


It depends on whether you meant the promises you made. Even if my husband said tomorrow that he never wanted sex again, there is no way that I would commit adultery. It's what our moral values are, and how we feel about adultery and breaking the promises that we made when we got married.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I have never met anyone who was happy with adultery in their marriage.


Perhaps you live a very narrow life. As long as you're happy with your life, that's what matters. I'm happy with mine.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I have never met anyone who was happy with adultery in their marriage.


Adultery tends to assume secretive or behind their backs. Nothing about an open marriage is secretive. If you've never met anyone who was happy in an open marriage well, you may have. It's not like they tell everyone. You could easily have known couples who have some form of non-monogamy in their marriage and are happy.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Perhaps you live a very narrow life. As long as you're happy with your life, that's what matters. I'm happy with mine.


Not at all ,I know loads of people whose marriages ended because of adultery, and loads of people whose adultery totally messed their lives up and the lives of their children.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> Then there's really no point in being married. Shows, in my opinion, a lack of love and respect to the other spouse. It was my final straw and thus I filed for divorce. It's not a religious thing, it's to me, a moral thing. I could never do that to my partner; married or not. Shows, in my opinion, a lack of trust, respect, honor and loyalty.
> 
> As for the hot wife thing.. I had to look that up and got plenty of info from Reddit. Wow. Not sure who I feel more sorry for, the simp **** men or the sexually abused wives. I am not a psychologist, but this has to cause some sort of mental damage of no connection; lack of empathy for the female. I am not even going into the STD/STI issues that can and prob. do occur. It's wrong on so many levels.
> 
> ...


I know that must have really sucked but it is better she asked you outright, rather than run around behind your back, you had an option then to divorce. I agree with you, I do not understand the open marriage concept, it's better not to be married then.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Not at all ,I know loads of people whose marriages ended because of adultery, and loads of people whose adultery totally messed their lives up and the lives of their children.


You're talking about cheating? Affairs? 

It's not the same thing as an open marriage.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

knobcreek said:


> I feel like my wife and I are just not sexually compatible. No matter how much she says she loves me it just doesn't come across during sex. We have sex routinely, and at times it's been very good, but for most of our marriage she's clearly not engaged and I don't think attracted to me sexually. So for me in this situation I either want a divorce, or the OK to seek out someone who I can have that connection and bond with, someone who wants to screw me after a night out, oral and not complain about it "but I'll do it if you want". We have a lot of stuff integrated into our marriage, divorce would be lengthy, expensive, and damaging in a lot of ways to us and our kids. If she doesn't desire me sexually then I'm just a friend, so why care if I engage in sex outside the marriage?
> 
> I used to think an open marriage is crazy, but now I'm changing my tune on it.
> 
> I don't believe there's a solution for most sexual issues in a marriage, especially when one spouse just doesn't want the other sexually, that doesn't come back. So an open marriage may be a good alternative to divorce and breaking the family apart.


My wife and I are extremely sexually compatible. We have top shelf sex quite regularly. I can relate to what you are saying here in the sense that my wife is fiercely loyal and monogamous, and she also really enjoys sex. I don't however feel as if she is overly sexually attracted to me. Which leads to the interesting conundrum...I am not worried about losing the great sex, or a wife who strays, while at the same time, I'm not going to be very sexually desired by her. So how far down the road can one go in seeking the feeling of simply being desired?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Not at all ,I know loads of people whose marriages ended because of adultery, and loads of people whose adultery totally messed their lives up and the lives of their children.


Was it consensual, ethical non-monogamy? Or simply sordid cheating?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There are some people who are happy in open marriages. There are some people who are happy in monogamous marriages. There are some people who are unhappy in monogamous marriages. There are some people who thought that they would be happy in open marriages but discovered that they ruined their marriages.

I see it as something that works for some people but which must be approached with great care, because it fails very badly for others.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Open marriage, polyamory and swinging are all consensual nonmonogamous lifestyles that have been agreed upon and consented to by all parties involved. 

It is not cheating. It is not infidelity and it is not adultery. It is part of that particular couple's sexual dynamic within their marriage. 


Swinging for us was marital sex. It was part of our marital life that we discussed, negotiated and came to mutual agreements on what we would and would not do. 

In other words we did exactly what every other married couple does to one degree or another. ALL couples discuss and draw up agreements and boundaries and limits and deal-breakers on how they will handle sexuality with other people (or at least they should)

For most couples that comes down to - "DON'T!" 

But even traditional, monogamous couples will address how much is ok in regards to contact with the opposite sex. Things such as how much conversation, how much alone-time, flirtation, dancing, complimenting etc etc will all come into play and be discussed as far as what is ok and how much is ok and what crosses a line and is not ok. 

Swinging/open marriage/polyamory etc is simply further down the line on that same spectrum. 

While a traditional, monogamous couple may agree that some fun, lighthearted flirtation and dancing in a group is ok, but touching, dirty dancing and kissing are not. 

For a swinging couple, they may agree that foreplay, oral sex and mutual masturbation are ok, but intercourse and anal are not. Others may say full swap intercourse is fine as long as it is with another married couple and as long as everyone is in the same room. 

In other words, both monogamous and consensually nonmonogamous couples have the same discussions and the same negotiations and arrive at agreements and ground rules and boundaries the same. The difference is in how far it goes out in contact with others. It's a difference in degrees, not content. 

The couple decides where their boundaries and ground rules and conditions lay. That is true for the monogamous as well as for the non monogamous. 

Each couple has to determine where there moral beliefs, values, comfort zones and boundaries lay. For some, it's no nothing with a member of the opposite sex ever. And for others it's no anal with anyone bigger/skinnier/better looking than me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

.... however in practice what often separates the consensual non-monogamous couple from the traditional is the nonomonogs actual do discuss this explicitly in great detail for some time where as many traditional couples make many assumptions and take many things for granted. 

Especially those that come from strict religious backgrounds make many assumptions on marital sexuality or take their direction from their religious teachings and beliefs rather than actually discussing it openly with their spouse. 

My wife and I had a completely traditional marriage for the first 10 years and we both made many assumptions on marital sex and made assumptions on what the other would think and what the other would accept. 

Once we actually started discussing it openly and honestly with each other, we quickly found that each of us was ok with it. 

It took us a couple years from the first discussions until we actually had full swap sex with another couple and there were about 10,000 incremental intermediate steps in between. 

It worked for us and it was awesome and no problems or ramifications came from it. 

Yes you will see lots of discussions on relationship forums of how it blew up their marriage. 

That's because forums are made up of people having problems. The people for whom non-monogamy works are out partying and having the time of their lives instead posting their woes on websites.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> Something that has been circling my head for some time now. I've been in a few relationships and one marriage. When two people get married, they take sacred vows. Last time I checked, intimacy was one of them. I do not understand how one spouse can suggest open marriage, and the other spouse agree. It seems like a means to an end; not to mention a clear violation of the vows of marriage. If two people, who are in a union of marriage enter into an open marriage; what's the point? Usually, or at least in my case, the wife suggested it and just told me we just do not bring them home or discuss it with each other. I was so shocked at that, when she said what do you think, the only thing I could say is I think we should divorce. Clearly, there's no love left for me in your heart.
> 
> Is this becoming the norm? I see several topics on open marriages, and I just do not understand. Maybe I am missing something.


Yes, don't fall into the open marriage trap. Divorce is the correct option in your case.

You are correct IMO. Once the vows go and once she said something so horrible like "don't bring them home, don't tell", that means she is either currently cheating on you or has someone lined up to do so.

If you decided to stay and she got off work at 4 and came home at 7 smelling like another man, are you really going to ask her how her day was ??? I think not.

Your wife has changed and is disrespectful. Show her the door and tell her to keep on walking. She is broken and kudos to you for having the wherewithall to know what was happening


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> Then there's really no point in being married. Shows, in my opinion, a lack of love and respect to the other spouse. It was my final straw and thus I filed for divorce. It's not a religious thing, it's to me, a moral thing. I could never do that to my partner; married or not. Shows, in my opinion, a lack of trust, respect, honor and loyalty.
> 
> As for the hot wife thing.. I had to look that up and got plenty of info from Reddit. Wow. Not sure who I feel more sorry for, the simp **** men or the sexually abused wives. I am not a psychologist, but this has to cause some sort of mental damage of no connection; lack of empathy for the female. I am not even going into the STD/STI issues that can and prob. do occur. It's wrong on so many levels.
> 
> ...


times aren't changing. 95% plus of people don't get involved in that horrid lifestyle. Again you made the right call


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

thefam said:


> Because you're married, which is a commitment. Between the two of you get as freaky as you want. But if you're going to be sleeping with other people, as someone said further up, just stay single.
> 
> I don't see much line left when you start veering off into group sex. YMMV



I agree Thefam. So far I am seeing the open marriage crew taking over this thread.

OP if you are listening DO NOT DO IT !!! No open marriage. !!!! 

divorce and don't settle for your wife's sloppy seconds and immorality


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> I disagree. However, to each his own. The man is a **** who encourages his wife to get drilled by many strangers. Again, to each his or her own. I know, I would be very upset to find another man inside my then wife. If I actually walked in on them having sex, I wouldn't want to know what I'd do to the guy. This guy handled it better than I would had.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0SAaeo0A7I


I agree OP and I have not seen an open marriage that ever worked with people I know and in my experience.

At the end of the day, guys can't get over their wives getting banged by some hotshot like Peter North and nor should they. Absolutely disgusting behavior IMO

What are you supposed to do ?? Go up to your wife and get a napkin and help her wipe the c*m off her face in case she missed some and then act as though everything is ok ? I think not


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

wmn1 said:


> I agree OP and I have not seen an open marriage that ever worked with people I know and in my experience.
> 
> At the end of the day, guys can't get over their wives getting banged by some hotshot like Peter North and nor should they. Absolutely disgusting behavior IMO


I have a hard time believing that you know many or even one person in an open marriage, most people don't talk about it with anyone but their spouse, or maybe very very close confidants they trust wouldn't judge them, and your religious zeal and disgust at the idea leads me to believe that no one would confide this in you.

I think if two people are in a healthy, happy marriage, good sex life, then do NOT open the marriage, why **** with something that's working?

But what about those marriages that have children, and a million in debts and assets to deal with? Where one spouse has basically shown little sexual interest in their spouse? Should the spouse whose basically being neglected just "suck it up" or is it fair for them to ask to open the marriage and allow them to have the physical interaction that they desperately need with someone else? Or is divorce always better? Today I'm not so sure.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> It depends on whether you meant the promises you made. Even if my husband said tomorrow that he never wanted sex again, there is no way that I would commit adultery. It's what our moral values are, and how we feel about adultery and breaking the promises that we made when we got married.


You sound young, naive, hold onto that.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree with your first part knob but I don't agree with opening rocky marriages. You have to be careful that your spouse is still meeting your needs to continue to love them. Opening a rocky marriage is doomed to failure. 

Getting extra fun on the side is just that, fun. It's not done to meet your emotional needs, that is still between the husband and wife. 

As for not messing with a good thing, lots of people find it enchances it. Like some have said, a hobby of sorts.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

wmn1 said:


> At the end of the day, guys can't get over their wives getting banged by some hotshot like Peter North and nor should they. Absolutely disgusting behavior IMO
> 
> What are you supposed to do ?? Go up to your wife and get a napkin and help her wipe the c*m off her face in case she missed some and then act as though everything is ok ? I think not


You'd be surprised how common a hotwifing fantasy is and even by the amount of men who do it and love it. Certainly wouldn't be for anyone who would get upset by it but there are men who don't just "get over" their wives being banged, they love it.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I agree with your first part knob but I don't agree with opening rocky marriages. You have to be careful that your spouse is still meeting your needs to continue to love them. Opening a rocky marriage is doomed to failure.


I don't disagree but in my case I feel my marriage is doomed for failure anyway, but opening it up can keep us together until the kids are older while still maintaining a relationship and being there for each other.

My wife and I had frequent sex, but I've come to the conclusion she doesn't desire me sexually for one reason or another, spark just isn't there. I spent over a decade beating myself up over it, trying to get her to desire me sexually, but sexual chemistry is what it is. Once I accepted that she just doesn't and my self-worth has no bearing on how she feels about me or the actions she's taken my attitude improved. I've definitely had women interested in me and it feels good. I won't cheat, but I'm at the point of asking for permission to open the marriage. I don't want to leave my home, my children, my dogs. But I live with a woman who views sex with me as a chore, something to suffer through. I told her weeks ago I don't want sex with her since it's just duty sex she gives me, I don't enjoy it I need some desire and connection with someone I'm really with. It's obvious she's viewing it as a sacrifice and doesn't actually want to be with me. So if that's the case we're not lovers, we're roommates and friends why care if I have sex with someone who actually wants to be with me? I have a 27 year old petite blonde at work who flirts with me constantly, we've had lunch and run together, I have no doubt I could sleep with her, but I'm bound to a woman who wants nothing to do with me sexually so I just let this opportunity go and suffer through life with no more sexual enjoyment? Doesn't seem very fair for me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

knobcreek said:


> I have a hard time believing that you know many or even one person in an open marriage, most people don't talk about it with anyone but their spouse, or maybe very very close confidants they trust wouldn't judge them, and your religious zeal and disgust at the idea leads me to believe that no one would confide this in you.
> 
> I think if two people are in a healthy, happy marriage, good sex life, then do NOT open the marriage, why **** with something that's working?
> 
> But what about those marriages that have children, and a million in debts and assets to deal with? Where one spouse has basically shown little sexual interest in their spouse? Should the spouse whose basically being neglected just "suck it up" or is it fair for them to ask to open the marriage and allow them to have the physical interaction that they desperately need with someone else? Or is divorce always better? Today I'm not so sure.




Actually it's kind of the opposite of the things you are assuming. 

All of you DO know couples that are in some form of open marriage and they are likely enjoying it and doing fine with it. You just don't know that they are doing it. 

It's the people that had it blow up in their face are the ones that talk about it. They're the ones that get the publicity. 

The ones that it is working for simply keep their private bedroom activities private and don't blab about it. 

None of our friends or family have the slightest clue that we were very active swingers for many years. Most would think we were actually quite square. 

And it is the people that have solid marriages, great sex lives and extraordinary communication are the people that it works for and who do fine with it. 


You are very correct however in that no one is ever going to share their swinging/open marriage with someone that they believe would be offended or disgusted or judgemental about it. 

Since this site has the anonymity of the internet, I discuss my lifestyle here when people ask about it. But if I were to walk into a room hearing people talking the way most of the posters have been talking on this thread, I would just go on about my business and leave them to their own beliefs and opinions. 

The truth is, I held many of those same beliefs and judgements until we actually started talking about it and then ultimately doing it. I too assumed that swingers were somehow dysfunctional or had bizarre problems or were sexual deviants and all had over-the-top sex drives etc etc. All it too was going to one swingers club the first time to realize they are just like everyone else and you would never recognize them walking down the street and that you would not be able to tell the difference between them and your neighbor or your coworkers or people in your church in any other venue.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> Something that has been circling my head for some time now. I've been in a few relationships and one marriage. When two people get married, they take sacred vows. Last time I checked, intimacy was one of them. I do not understand how one spouse can suggest open marriage, and the other spouse agree. It seems like a means to an end; not to mention a clear violation of the vows of marriage. If two people, who are in a union of marriage enter into an open marriage; what's the point? Usually, or at least in my case, the wife suggested it and just told me we just do not bring them home or discuss it with each other. I was so shocked at that, when she said what do you think, the only thing I could say is I think we should divorce. Clearly, there's no love left for me in your heart.
> 
> Is this becoming the norm? I see several topics on open marriages, and I just do not understand. Maybe I am missing something.


Some people use the idea of an open marriage as an excuse to cheat. Some people use it as a way to put more stress on themselves because they are terrified of the idea of ever becoming stagnant.

Regardless, I can tell you one thing: very few people are able to thrive in any form of open marriage/polyamory. 

Trust me, I am one of them.

If you don't want it, reject it with actions. Not just words. Reject it with everything you do.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

knobcreek said:


> I don't disagree but in my case I feel my marriage is doomed for failure anyway, but opening it up can keep us together until the kids are older while still maintaining a relationship and being there for each other.
> 
> My wife and I had frequent sex, but I've come to the conclusion she doesn't desire me sexually for one reason or another, spark just isn't there. I spent over a decade beating myself up over it, trying to get her to desire me sexually, but sexual chemistry is what it is. Once I accepted that she just doesn't and my self-worth has no bearing on how she feels about me or the actions she's taken my attitude improved. I've definitely had women interested in me and it feels good. I won't cheat, but I'm at the point of asking for permission to open the marriage. I don't want to leave my home, my children, my dogs. But I live with a woman who views sex with me as a chore, something to suffer through. I told her weeks ago I don't want sex with her since it's just duty sex she gives me, I don't enjoy it I need some desire and connection with someone I'm really with. It's obvious she's viewing it as a sacrifice and doesn't actually want to be with me. So if that's the case we're not lovers, we're roommates and friends why care if I have sex with someone who actually wants to be with me? I have a 27 year old petite blonde at work who flirts with me constantly, we've had lunch and run together, I have no doubt I could sleep with her, but I'm bound to a woman who wants nothing to do with me sexually so I just let this opportunity go and suffer through life with no more sexual enjoyment? Doesn't seem very fair for me.


If the marriage is dead anyway then I guess it doesn't hurt anything to ask. You'd need to be prepared to leave your home and kids and dogs. Unfortunately there is no good outcome from a sexless marriage. It's stay miserable or lose a lot leaving. 

Though lets say she agreed, I'd not sleep with anyone from work. You'd have to find partners you can delicately balance enough emotional connection to make sex good and mutually beneficial without becoming too emotionally involved. The partner needs to know clearly that you aren't looking to change your marriage status. Finding a woman in an open marriage herself would be a good idea. She would understand the concept of having to make time for the primary partner.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

knobcreek said:


> I don't disagree but in my case I feel my marriage is doomed for failure anyway, but opening it up can keep us together until the kids are older while still maintaining a relationship and being there for each other.
> 
> My wife and I had frequent sex, but I've come to the conclusion she doesn't desire me sexually for one reason or another, spark just isn't there. I spent over a decade beating myself up over it, trying to get her to desire me sexually, but sexual chemistry is what it is. Once I accepted that she just doesn't and my self-worth has no bearing on how she feels about me or the actions she's taken my attitude improved. I've definitely had women interested in me and it feels good. I won't cheat, but I'm at the point of asking for permission to open the marriage. I don't want to leave my home, my children, my dogs. But I live with a woman who views sex with me as a chore, something to suffer through. I told her weeks ago I don't want sex with her since it's just duty sex she gives me, I don't enjoy it I need some desire and connection with someone I'm really with. It's obvious she's viewing it as a sacrifice and doesn't actually want to be with me. So if that's the case we're not lovers, we're roommates and friends why care if I have sex with someone who actually wants to be with me? I have a 27 year old petite blonde at work who flirts with me constantly, we've had lunch and run together, I have no doubt I could sleep with her, but I'm bound to a woman who wants nothing to do with me sexually so I just let this opportunity go and suffer through life with no more sexual enjoyment? Doesn't seem very fair for me.


My experience is with swinging as a couple and not open marriage per se, so take this with a grain of salt, but I do believe this principle to be true - 

Consensual non-monogamy is like wind on a fire, if the fire is well seated and burning well, a wind will make it burn hotter and more intense. 

However if that fire is weak and flickering and not well seated, the wind will just blow it out. 

So too does opening a marriage. If the marriage is fundamentally sound and the sex life is good and satisfying for both partners, bringing in some outside fun and excitement can make it even more exciting and intense. 

But if there is a fundamental flaw or dissatisfaction or dysfunction, outside parties will quickly bring about the demise of the primary relationship. 

Let's say you do hook up with this young cutie. If she is hot for you and the sex is intense and good and she does desire you strongly, your mind will do mental gymnastics in order to convince you that your young cutie is the one you should be with and that your "old hag" of a wife is just a hinderence to your happiness and well being. You will find reasons to fault her and reasons to shift your love and devotion to the OW. 

Your wife too will likely grown contemptuous and embittered towards you and your relationship with the OW even if she initially condoned it. 

She may have a resurgence of sexual energy with you initially when her instinctive competitiveness kicks in, but if she doesn't "win" your love and affection, she will grow resentful, jealous and bitter as you continue with the OW. 

Assuming you are correct that she has lost attraction and desire for you and that she is only providing 'duty sex', once her respect and esteem for you flounders what little attraction and desire she had left will drop off the cliff and she will lose all attraction and respect and the duty sex will dry up like the Sahara and your marriage will become completely sexless as well as mutually resentful and contemptuous. 

It will ultimately fail as both of you lose respect, esteem and desire for the other. 

It's a very predictable outcome. 

Now if both you and your wife view marriage "success" as simply not divorcing and remaining legally married and under one roof until the kids turn 18 and move out, that is one thing. If both of you are devoted to not legally divorcing and are ok with gutting it out until the kids are adults, then it can be done assuming the OW is ok with being a side piece until then and assuming some other man doesn't come along and make your wife a better offer. 

If you view remaining married as synonymous with not divorcing, then it could work provided both the OW and your wife are ok with that ongoing arrangement.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

Just end it and move on. No point getting your wife laid by other guys in the mean time. She can handle that herself.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

wmn1 said:


> I agree Thefam. So far I am seeing the open marriage crew taking over this thread.
> 
> OP if you are listening DO NOT DO IT !!! No open marriage. !!!!
> 
> divorce and don't settle for your wife's sloppy seconds and immorality


Agreed. I filed a few days after that. I don't understand how two people can consider being with each other while one or both sexual organs are being used or occupied by another person. Granted, I am not a person who's an expert in marriage, but I know it's just wrong on so many levels.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You'd be surprised how common a hotwifing fantasy is and even by the amount of men who do it and love it. Certainly wouldn't be for anyone who would get upset by it but there are men who don't just "get over" their wives being banged, they love it.


The guys are weak cucks who have no spine. How a woman can think their "man" (using that term loosely) likes or enjoys to find out another man is inside their partner is beyond me. The "man" could be afraid to look jealous in front of their suggestive partner. He could be afraid to lose her as a "partner". He could believe, well hey, she's going to do it anyway, so I might as well and go long with it.

It's actually more worrisome for women to do this over men. HPV, Herpes, HIV, and other such diseases. You are not only playing Russian roulette with your own lives, but your "partners" too. 

Then, there is always the real possibility that the other person or people either are doing they develop feelings for and it breaks up the family or relationship.

People say everything is good while everything is bright and rosy. When the turd hits the fan, there's crap all over the place. It's only a matter of time. 

Karma is a b!tch and it gets everyone........... eventually.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> I don't disagree but in my case I feel my marriage is doomed for failure anyway, but opening it up can keep us together until the kids are older while still maintaining a relationship and being there for each other.
> 
> My wife and I had frequent sex, but I've come to the conclusion she doesn't desire me sexually for one reason or another, spark just isn't there. I spent over a decade beating myself up over it, trying to get her to desire me sexually, but sexual chemistry is what it is. Once I accepted that she just doesn't and my self-worth has no bearing on how she feels about me or the actions she's taken my attitude improved. I've definitely had women interested in me and it feels good. I won't cheat, but I'm at the point of asking for permission to open the marriage. I don't want to leave my home, my children, my dogs. But I live with a woman who views sex with me as a chore, something to suffer through. I told her weeks ago I don't want sex with her since it's just duty sex she gives me, I don't enjoy it I need some desire and connection with someone I'm really with. It's obvious she's viewing it as a sacrifice and doesn't actually want to be with me. So if that's the case we're not lovers, we're roommates and friends why care if I have sex with someone who actually wants to be with me? I have a 27 year old petite blonde at work who flirts with me constantly, we've had lunch and run together, I have no doubt I could sleep with her, but I'm bound to a woman who wants nothing to do with me sexually so I just let this opportunity go and suffer through life with no more sexual enjoyment? Doesn't seem very fair for me.


Nothing, and I mean nothing hurts more that a partner for years coming to you and saying, we should have an open marriage when the other one hadn't had a clue. It makes the other person feel like 2 cents. Now, if both were swingers from the beginning, that's something completely different. They were never monogamous in the first place. But to be with someone (man or woman) for years with your sex life dwindling suggest to sleep with others, just don't tell each other about it. It's evil, wrong, bad and extremely hurtful to the other one even if s/he doesn't admit it.

Sorry, Mother Teresa couldn't convince me on this one. She's probably rolling in her grave saying what has the world come to.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

As'laDain said:


> Some people use the idea of an open marriage as an excuse to cheat. Some people use it as a way to put more stress on themselves because they are terrified of the idea of ever becoming stagnant.
> 
> Regardless, I can tell you one thing: very few people are able to thrive in any form of open marriage/polyamory.
> 
> ...



I did. I kicked her out of the house and filed for divorce. Anyone who's not acceptable to that offering should as a bond has been broken and can never be repaired. Basically, the other person doesn't value the marriage or that person.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

aine said:


> I know that must have really sucked but it is better she asked you outright, rather than run around behind your back, you had an option then to divorce. I agree with you, I do not understand the open marriage concept, it's better not to be married then.


Wasn't an ask. It was an implied suggestion.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Dannip said:


> Just end it and move on. No point getting your wife laid by other guys in the mean time. She can handle that herself.


Was ended a year ago. I am sure she's having the time of her life. She'll hit the wall sooner or later.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You're talking about cheating? Affairs?
> 
> It's not the same thing as an open marriage.


Its still adultery.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Its still adultery.


Yes, so what? It's not infidelity. The agreement of the couple makes the entire difference. As I suspected, you know nothing about consensual, ethical non-monogamy, and again retreat into your narrow-minded view of marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, so what? It's not infidelity. The agreement of the couple makes the entire difference. As I suspected, you know nothing about consensual, ethical non-monogamy, and again retreat into your narrow-minded view of marriage.


There is no such thing as 'ethical adultery' . Yes it is infidelity. As it happens most couples believe that faithfulness is vital for marriage and also believe in my 'narrow minded' view of marriage.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> There is no such thing as 'ethical adultery' . Yes it is infidelity. As it happens most couples believe that faithfulness is vital for marriage and also believe in my 'narrow minded' view of marriage.


Most probably do agree with you. That doesn't make them right. And no, adultery is not infidelity - check your definitions. They are often used synonymously in "adulterated" :grin2: common usage, but there is a difference - consensual adultery does not mean unfaithful. NONconsensual would. Regardless, we are not unfaithful when we have sex with others (vows or not - and we did not make such a vow when we married). As usual, you can't see beyond your own indoctrination.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

itsontherocks said:


> Nothing, and I mean nothing hurts more that a partner for years coming to you and saying, we should have an open marriage when the other one hadn't had a clue. It makes the other person feel like 2 cents. .... But to be with someone (man or woman) for years with your sex life dwindling suggest to sleep with others, just don't tell each other about it. It's evil, wrong, bad and extremely hurtful....


Not more hurtful then lying about being sexually attracted to someone just to keep them around, dealing with years of dead bedroom and excuses, and now duty sex 2-3X a week (she gives it often because she's afraid of losing me, but you can't fake actual desire or sexual connection). It's not like this marriage is going along great and this will come as a shock. I simply can't afford to divorce right now, but I can't go another 16 years with someone who doesn't view me as a sexual option for her either. Things aren't always so cut and dry and simple as they are on a message board.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

itsontherocks said:


> The guys are weak cucks who have no spine. How a woman can think their "man" (using that term loosely) likes or enjoys to find out another man is inside their partner is beyond me. The "man" could be afraid to look jealous in front of their suggestive partner. He could be afraid to lose her as a "partner". He could believe, well hey, she's going to do it anyway, so I might as well and go long with it.
> 
> It's actually more worrisome for women to do this over men. HPV, Herpes, HIV, and other such diseases. You are not only playing Russian roulette with your own lives, but your "partners" too.
> 
> ...


The current anti-Testosterone culture is molding beta-boys. When femminazis finally decide to grow up and settle down - they're pissed. Now they look for a real man and all they see are beta boys and orbiters.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> The guys are weak cucks who have no spine. How a woman can think their "man" (using that term loosely) likes or enjoys to find out another man is inside their partner is beyond me. The "man" could be afraid to look jealous in front of their suggestive partner. He could be afraid to lose her as a "partner". He could believe, well hey, she's going to do it anyway, so I might as well and go long with it.
> 
> It's actually more worrisome for women to do this over men. HPV, Herpes, HIV, and other such diseases. You are not only playing Russian roulette with your own lives, but your "partners" too.
> 
> ...



Karma suggests they are doing something wrong. I just don't agree. Sex isn't wrong. It's fun. It would be wrong if one partner wasn't happy with it but that's not the case. 

People keep putting their feelings onto others. Personally I can't stand religion. I don't get how others can but I trust that they are happy and just feel differently than me. I don't see why people like sky diving. Seems horrific. But I trust that those who do it are enjoying themselves and can do what they like. 
Everyone has different likes and wants and feeling. 
Not everyone views sex and non-monogamy the same. 

Most often men who are doing "sl*twifes" is their initial idea so they weren't talked into it in anyway. They want to help their wives become the sexual person they know they are. They love watching her bloom and enjoy herself. To them it's beautiful and sexual. 

Also with this particular non-monogamy is it most often done with one time, NSA partners so no falling in love. No communication outside sex. It's purely a sexual hobby for the couple and not an emotional one. 

As for stds, you be as safe as you can and get tested often. Ask your partners for testing.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

knobcreek said:


> You sound young, naive, hold onto that.


BS She sounds actually mature and committed. I am not sure why you are attacking her for her commitment to loyalty to her husband. Sounds like you are the naive one


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You'd be surprised how common a hotwifing fantasy is and even by the amount of men who do it and love it. Certainly wouldn't be for anyone who would get upset by it but there are men who don't just "get over" their wives being banged, they love it.


I get it because it happens and I think those guys who do that are sick mentally IMO


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

wmn1 said:


> I get it because it happens and I think those guys who do that are sick mentally IMO


I think a lot of things people do are sick mentally (lets say like 95% of what's going on with your far right politics these days) but I know that my opinion does not rule all and what is sick to one person is normal and acceptable to another. 

People in open marriages aren't trying to recruit you. We aren't trying to convince the world to do it too and that it's right for everyone. 
But people against them hold the thought that no one should do it or that it's wrong for everyone. 

Not everyone shares the same feelings about sex. I don't see why some feel theirs is how ALL should see it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> I don't disagree but in my case I feel my marriage is doomed for failure anyway, but opening it up can keep us together until the kids are older while still maintaining a relationship and being there for each other.
> 
> My wife and I had frequent sex, but I've come to the conclusion she doesn't desire me sexually for one reason or another, spark just isn't there. I spent over a decade beating myself up over it, trying to get her to desire me sexually, but sexual chemistry is what it is. Once I accepted that she just doesn't and my self-worth has no bearing on how she feels about me or the actions she's taken my attitude improved. I've definitely had women interested in me and it feels good. I won't cheat, but I'm at the point of asking for permission to open the marriage. I don't want to leave my home, my children, my dogs. But I live with a woman who views sex with me as a chore, something to suffer through. I told her weeks ago I don't want sex with her since it's just duty sex she gives me, I don't enjoy it I need some desire and connection with someone I'm really with. It's obvious she's viewing it as a sacrifice and doesn't actually want to be with me. So if that's the case we're not lovers, we're roommates and friends why care if I have sex with someone who actually wants to be with me? I have a 27 year old petite blonde at work who flirts with me constantly, we've had lunch and run together, I have no doubt I could sleep with her, but I'm bound to a woman who wants nothing to do with me sexually so I just let this opportunity go and suffer through life with no more sexual enjoyment? Doesn't seem very fair for me.


In all fairness to your wife and kids, go with your wife to marriage counseling. Tell her and a marriage counselor or better yet sex therapist, what you just posted. Tell her that you are treading water until your kids leave home and that you marriage my be doomed unless both of you work on changing and committing to the marriage.

Cheating or even having an open marriage will just avoid the real problem that should be addressed.

Good luck.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

itsontherocks said:


> Open Marriage option... I just do not get it.


A vocal minority of men out there simply enjoy being cuckolds. 

It's like any other non-relatable fetish. Don't over think it......


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

knobcreek said:


> I have a hard time believing that you know many or even one person in an open marriage, most people don't talk about it with anyone but their spouse, or maybe very very close confidants they trust wouldn't judge them, and your religious zeal and disgust at the idea leads me to believe that no one would confide this in you.
> 
> I think if two people are in a healthy, happy marriage, good sex life, then do NOT open the marriage, why **** with something that's working?
> 
> But what about those marriages that have children, and a million in debts and assets to deal with? Where one spouse has basically shown little sexual interest in their spouse? Should the spouse whose basically being neglected just "suck it up" or is it fair for them to ask to open the marriage and allow them to have the physical interaction that they desperately need with someone else? Or is divorce always better? Today I'm not so sure.


BS. I had at my work people who would have 'swap meets' and they indulged in the culture. All of them are divorced. I also know of two other couples who were open marriage who are done.

Please don't project your experiences onto mine because I have to work with these people every day and get reminded on how open marriage failed them. 

Fine, you are suffering and I get that. You have complexities. I get that. However, the one sided open relationship you are about to get into will tear you apart and there will be nothing left of you by the time the kids are gone and it is time to divorce.

Divorce is always better IMO.

Then you can actually go out with someone who gives a$hit about you and you can enjoy the romance and connection you deserve rather than wondering where your wife is at 2 a.m. 

That is my opinion and yes, as I count off the top of my head, it's 11 for 11 who are divorced in my experience. 

OP stood up and refused it. He's a man's man. Not someone who is willing to be cuckolded and I applaud him for that


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> Agreed. I filed a few days after that. I don't understand how two people can consider being with each other while one or both sexual organs are being used or occupied by another person. Granted, I am not a person who's an expert in marriage, but I know it's just wrong on so many levels.


you are right, sir. Completely


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> The guys are weak cucks who have no spine. How a woman can think their "man" (using that term loosely) likes or enjoys to find out another man is inside their partner is beyond me. The "man" could be afraid to look jealous in front of their suggestive partner. He could be afraid to lose her as a "partner". He could believe, well hey, she's going to do it anyway, so I might as well and go long with it.
> 
> It's actually more worrisome for women to do this over men. HPV, Herpes, HIV, and other such diseases. You are not only playing Russian roulette with your own lives, but your "partners" too.
> 
> ...


I agree gain completely. Hotwifing is for cuckolds. These cucks need to do the job or learn to do the job yourself. 

You hit all the points above. I respect your foresight. 

Again, that's why 100% of the open relationships that I know about at least have failed.

In the end, guys can't get over their wife getting owned by another man or calling out the other guy's name when you are making love to her.

They can have that lifestyle. IMO, you made the right choice but blowing that up and not tolerating it yourself.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> There is no such thing as 'ethical adultery' . Yes it is infidelity. As it happens most couples believe that faithfulness is vital for marriage and also believe in my 'narrow minded' view of marriage.


I agree completely, Diana. It's just two adulterers trying to justify their unethical behavior and use others as sex toys for each other's narcissistic reasons. I know I will get push back for that but that's how I feel. 

As you pointed out, why get married then if you are welcoming others into your marriage ?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think a lot of things people do are sick mentally (lets say like 95% of what's going on with your far right politics these days) but I know that my opinion does not rule all and what is sick to one person is normal and acceptable to another.
> 
> People in open marriages aren't trying to recruit you. We aren't trying to convince the world to do it too and that it's right for everyone.
> But people against them hold the thought that no one should do it or that it's wrong for everyone.
> ...


or far left politics ???? After all, it's not the far right attacking cops in Boston, Seattle or Phoenix. Is it ??

Anyway, that's for another board 

And yes, I had people in open marriages trying to recruit me and my wife. She was horrified. 

If OP is struggling in his marriage, the last thing I would suggest is to let his wife drift off and bang other guys. IMO dumb move. Either 100% exclusive or 0% exclusive and no marriage


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Karma suggests they are doing something wrong. I just don't agree. Sex isn't wrong. It's fun. It would be wrong if one partner wasn't happy with it but that's not the case.
> 
> People keep putting their feelings onto others. Personally I can't stand religion. I don't get how others can but I trust that they are happy and just feel differently than me. I don't see why people like sky diving. Seems horrific. But I trust that those who do it are enjoying themselves and can do what they like.
> Everyone has different likes and wants and feeling.
> ...


Sexual person??? Rubish False premise. **** and ***** is the proper word. And he turns into a pimp. 

Imho. 

Change the name all you want. Results are the same.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

The OP's specific situation isn't the typical open marriage negotiation nor would anyone tell him it's a good idea to go ahead with it. Open marriages require a steady base and constant communication and trust. 

There's really no need to attempt to put negativity on men and women who do enjoy it and do it in healthy ways. There are plenty of them that do. Knowing a few who didn't is irrelevant. I've known monogamous couples who failed, doesn't mean all monogamy is bad. 

For the people who think it's wrong and immoral and sick, it's not for you. No one is telling you to do it. There's no need to put your ideas about sex onto what other people should do. 

It can and does work out fine with the right couples. If you don't want to be open, don't. There's nothing wrong or bad about either choice, it's personal preference and personal ideas about sex.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Karma suggests they are doing something wrong. I just don't agree. Sex isn't wrong. It's fun. It would be wrong if one partner wasn't happy with it but that's not the case.
> 
> People keep putting their feelings onto others. Personally I can't stand religion. I don't get how others can but I trust that they are happy and just feel differently than me. I don't see why people like sky diving. Seems horrific. But I trust that those who do it are enjoying themselves and can do what they like.
> Everyone has different likes and wants and feeling.
> ...


You should run a full panel STD report if you're in this lifestyle. As for potential partners... Ever hear of lying? My stance is not religious, it's moral.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> Not more hurtful then lying about being sexually attracted to someone just to keep them around, dealing with years of dead bedroom and excuses, and now duty sex 2-3X a week (she gives it often because she's afraid of losing me, but you can't fake actual desire or sexual connection). It's not like this marriage is going along great and this will come as a shock. I simply can't afford to divorce right now, but I can't go another 16 years with someone who doesn't view me as a sexual option for her either. Things aren't always so cut and dry and simple as they are on a message board.


Agreed. However, you were at least offered a base to possibly build from. Listen, I am telling you, divorce is not easy. It hit me hard financially with legal fees. However, since she knew she would be worse off, she was going to stick around longer since it's was really no skin off of her back. Some times, you just have to pull the bandage off real fast and let the chips fall where they may. No reason for both people to be in mental and emotional torture. The right thing, for both, is to do what needs to be done. The distribution of assets is killer. However, my sham marriage was short so she couldn't claim anything; but did try.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Dannip said:


> The current anti-Testosterone culture is molding beta-boys. When femminazis finally decide to grow up and settle down - they're pissed. Now they look for a real man and all they see are beta boys and orbiters.


Funny how some got what they wanted, and now they are not happy with the results.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> A vocal minority of men out there simply enjoy being cuckolds.
> 
> It's like any other non-relatable fetish. Don't over think it......


Please don't use the word "men" loosely. It's to degrading to our gender. They are balless and spineless people; that is all.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> You should run a full panel STD report if you're in this lifestyle. As for potential partners... Ever hear of lying? My stance is not religious, it's moral.


Your morals are not everyone's morals. Why is that so hard to understand? 

The people doing it have 0 moral reasons against it. They simply do not view sex as a moral issue. 

Sex is only a moral issue if you personally make it one for yourself. That is fine. 
For others they can sleep with who they want, have several partners and/or have an honest open relationship. This is also fine.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> Please don't use the word "men" loosely. It's to degrading to our gender. They are balless and spineless people; that is all.


If you're going to put a moral label on behaviors, judging and insulting is less "moral" than having consensual sex IMO


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> Please don't use the word "men" loosely. It's to degrading to our gender. They are balless and spineless people; that is all.


I know some men who are into it. You would be surprised at what they do for a living.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

And FTR, my BF is a 6'5 sex god who could snap most people like a twig with one hand. His look is the very definition of an alpha man. His hands are twice the size of mine and he's proportionate .... everywhere. He builds classic cars from just about scratch on his own in his massive garage. Has a beautiful home he takes good care of, great job, and all the ladies look at him when out. He is respected and liked in all circles. He is a dominant partner who takes full, control and doesn't take sh*t from anyone. He'd never be in a sexless relationship and is very clear about that. Sex goes, so does he but he always makes it mutually beneficial. He's very confident without being at all c*cky. Never whines, never gets his ego all hurt, never pouts or gets hurt if he doesn't get his way. He commands, not demands.

It's because of all that he is 100% secure in himself and can have fun dates exploring new things. There's no reason for him to be jealous or worried. He knows he's better than all of them, he knows I know it too. It's fun pure and simple, his own private show, a date night.

You really have no idea the kinds of people who like non-monogamy and the kinds that don't. They comes in literally all forms and putting them all into one box is just ignorant.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And FTR, my BF is a 6'5 sex god who could snap most people like a twig with one hand. His look is the very definition of an alpha man. His hands are twice the size of mine and he's proportionate .... everywhere. He builds classic cars from just about scratch on his own in his massive garage. Has a beautiful home he takes good care of, great job, and all the ladies look at him when out. He is respected and liked in all circles. He is a dominant partner who takes full, control and doesn't take sh*t from anyone. He'd never be in a sexless relationship and is very clear about that. Sex goes, so does he but he always makes it mutually beneficial. He's very confident without being at all c*cky. Never whines, never gets his ego all hurt, never pouts or gets hurt if he doesn't get his way. He commands, not demands.
> 
> It's because of all that he is 100% secure in himself and can have fun dates exploring new things. There's no reason for him to be jealous or worried. He knows he's better than all of them, he knows I know it too. It's fun pure and simple, his own private show, a date night.
> 
> You really have no idea the kinds of people who like non-monogamy and the kinds that don't. They comes in literally all forms and putting them all into one box is just ignorant.



Sounds like this guy described in Shoop by Salt N Pepa.







Not reality on Earth, but maybe Uranus or Neptune.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

As'laDain said:


> I know some men who are into it. You would be surprised at what they do for a living.


What one person projects to others in public can be the complete opposite in private. Same can be said for people on forums.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

You don't think manly, commanding men exist? Or just not ones who can also have non-monogamy? 

More often than not I see dominant men taking their subs to do "sl*twifing" the flip of that is domme women doing it for their sub men. It's a kink, much like any other kink. 

Every kink has all different types in all different roles. Trust me that you wouldn't be able to point out who likes what. 

I go to munches and try to figure out roles and kinks of new people based on their personality. I'm often wrong and I've known many in all different types. 

Some people can't understand why any woman would ever allow their husbands to spank them. They think it's degrading and the woman must be being forced into it and hating it and the man is a horrible, mean person. 

Or maybe, they just both like it and that is perfectly fine. 

Your idea of what is and who practices non-monogamy is just not based on any fact or experience. You have these rigid boxes using your own wants and feelings and put people in those boxes based on that. It's just not how it works.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Open marriages have always seemed to me to be arrangements where couples want the benefits of marriage, and then they've grown bored and now they want the benefits of being single, without getting divorced. And it usually seems from what I've read, is that one of the spouses isn't into it at all, and has to be coaxed into it. There are exceptions that make it all work, but it just seems like people want to have it all, and you can't have it all.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

All the couples I know personally were poly from the start. They knew that's what they wanted and looked for a partner who wanted the same. 
Likely why they work so well and last. 

In the world that I've had experience in things are a little different than many typical relationships. Sexual wants and kinks are all upfront and discussed first thing. How much importance mono or poly is to a person is one of the main sexual compatiblity questions to ask so everyone knows what they are getting into. If poly doesn't work you simply find a new partner. Trying to talk an unwilling partner into poly is quite looked down on and the door should be open for either partner to change their mind (this may mean the still poly partner is no longer compatible and leaves)


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Op - an open marriage isn't for you. It isn't for many people. But some couples willfully enter into an open marriage from the start. What business is it of yours what they do?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> What one person projects to others in public can be the complete opposite in private. Same can be said for people on forums.


You really have no idea what you are talking about. They aren't projecting one thing in public and another in private. For them, their team is their private life. They certainly aren't the spineless, balless people that you are claiming.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Haiku said:


> Op - an open marriage isn't for you.


Thanks for clearing that up for me.



> It isn't for many people. But some couples willfully enter into an open marriage from the start. What business is it of yours what they do?


I am expressing my opinion. Last time I checked, this is still the land of free speech. Perhaps, I am wrong there as well. If you or SlowlyGoingCrazy, or any of the other ones want to allow to be used as a sex object; by all means.. Continue to do so. 

Must feel very empty inside knowing the person you are "with" is just there with you for sex and ejaculation. It seems, once he's tired or done with you, he'll just move on to the next one; as will you. Seems like an empty void. But, whatever works for one, may not necessarily work for the other.  

Seems the partners you're with are not fulfilling their or your usefulness or are missing something. Jumping from penis to penis to penis or vagina to vagina to vagina doesn't an will not solve the issues inside one's self. 

In the end, for either sex, once they climax, they are done with you. That is all it is. A means to reach climax. No "relationship" aside from cumming. No building a life together. I guess that passé as well these days.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> I am expressing my opinion.


There's nothing wrong with that. I'm asking your opinion. Why you think what other couples do troubles you?


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

As'laDain said:


> You really have no idea what you are talking about. They aren't projecting one thing in public and another in private. For them, their team is their private life. They certainly aren't the spineless, balless people that you are claiming.


Opinions vary.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

Haiku said:


> There's nothing wrong with that. I'm asking your opinion. Why you think what other couples do troubles you?


Open forum looking for logic and reasoning. Or, at least the reasoning piece; as there is little logic to an open marriage. It's basically hooking up with the State's license. So, when the crap hits the fan, one of the spouse's will feel it.

I have no problem with open relationships. I am talking about open marriages. I couldn't do it as I'd be too concerned with the health risks. I know several co-workers that this was so cool and the modern type of relationships. One little lady has HSV II and HPV. The other person has something worse; but it's the modern way of relationships these days I guess. One, by law has to disclose her new found disease. The other, well, is keeping it on the d/l. These two are well educated people and work at a big law IT company.

If that's what some people want. Go for it. Reminds me of a recent tune.








Just hurts more when the person you are with does this. However, the above is the cold hard truth.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> Opinions vary.


Your opinion isn't based on anything other than your personal feelings and morals. You don't know any of them so you can't say what they are or assume they are all the same. 

Some people have certain opinions on the type of men that get turned down for sex. Even sometimes on this forum they are called beta and wimps, unattractive. 
I'm sure you don't appreciate the blanket statements and opinions about you without knowing you personally.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> I have no problem with open relationships. I am talking about open marriages. I couldn't do it as I'd be too concerned with the health risks.


I don't understand what you see as the difference between an open relationship and open marriage. It seems to me the same health risks are present in both. 

I understand an open marriage isn't for you. It isn't for me either btw. But couples enter into a marriage under their own terms. It doesn't harm you or me. It's none of our business. That's my opinion.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Why is anyone threatened by who someone has sex with? Gay, swinger, hotwife fantasy? What business is it of mine? It's not my job to enforce my view of morality or what's OK in sex and marriage on society. If people are actually happy, consenting adults, and not hurting anyone God bless em, there's so little in this world to give you happiness, take it wherever you can get it.

I am only considering an open marriage because I'm not financially, emotionally, or mentally ready for divorce, but I know it's inevitable, I figure it may be a way to extend the marriage to put our kids in a better place, get debt under control, and allow the time & process to evolve so it's easier on everyone while not being miserable and wasting years of my life as a monk or sexual beggar.

In another relationship I wouldn't do it, and if my wife agreed I wouldn't actually be in a sexual relationship with her anymore, for all intents and purposes we would be roommates and friends.



Haiku said:


> I don't understand what you see as the difference between an open relationship and open marriage. It seems to me the same health risks are present in both.


If anyone is dating today they're basically in an open relationship, women and men dating today are usually sexually active with multiple partners for a long time before they settle on one. That would be the toughest adjustment for me entering the dating world, I'm hopelessly monogamous, but doesn't seem to be a thing anymore.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

knobcreek said:


> If anyone is dating today they're basically in an open relationship, women and men dating today are usually sexually active with multiple partners for a long time before they settle on one. That would be the toughest adjustment for me entering the dating world, I'm hopelessly monogamous, but doesn't seem to be a thing anymore.


With regret, I do agree. I met a woman not too long ago that we seemed on page with everything. Then, out of no where, she wanted to keep us going along with at least one other man (I.E. playing the field). I said wow. Umm, okay, that's not cool with me, so take care. A few weeks later, she circled back, and wished her well. The main thing was we already agreed not to see other people, but she did it anyway. The bond of trust and honesty had been broken. I can no longer trust you; thus I have no use for you. Later. Sex is important, but it's only one part. A very important part, however, trust and honesty are much higher for me. Who knows where she's been or been with whom. Not worth the risk. 

What a sick society we live in. Chances are, it's going to come down to me hiring a surrogate for a child so I do not have to deal with this drama. Life is hard enough w/o these twists and turns.


And yes, I am that literal in my life. I know it may be weird or not the norm, but I am what I say, and I say what I am to the T. All I expect from others is to be treated like I treat them. If honesty and truthfulness is too literal or too much to ask for; then I guess I will be a loner. It is what it is. I cannot betray myself just to be with someone.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I refused to date anyone who was dating multiple people at the same time as me. I only went for men who dated one at a time. I never dated more than 1 man at a time. 
I'd date one, see if it worked and if not I'd move on and find another. 

There are plenty of them out there you just have to decide your own boundaries and stick to them. You have to be picky and ask questions right up front and realize that you'll go through a lot of duds to get a good one but that doesn't mean the entire gender is crap.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I refused to date anyone who was dating multiple people at the same time as me. I only went for men who dated one at a time. I never dated more than 1 man at a time.
> I'd date one, see if it worked and if not I'd move on and find another.
> 
> There are plenty of them out there you just have to decide your own boundaries and stick to them. You have to be picky and ask questions right up front and realize that you'll go through a lot of duds to get a good one but that doesn't mean the entire gender is crap.


Agreed. Only found out by accident. Very uncool. The bar seems to get lower and lower for the next person. Society is certainly upside down; at least in my neck of the woods. Shameful to say the least. I know several, male and females that have a stable and just travel through life with a different Jane or John; and it's considered normal. I see little value and only risk. Yet, I'm the odd ball out. 

Don't get me started on OLD.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

All of my vanilla friends are monogamous. Maybe where you're meeting women or the kind you are attracted to is off? If your social circle is so filled with people multi-dating and behaviour you don't like then find some new social circles. Get some hobbies and meet new people. 

You've had 2 women who wanted to be with you but sleep with others. 

Find out where your picker is going wrong. When I kept ending up with a certain type I evaluated my picker and what I could do to change things. It wasn't that most men were just addicts and @ssholes, I just kept ending up with the ones that were. And trust me there was a time where I thought all men are the same, cause that's all I saw. 

I worked on myself, really figured out my needs and confidence and got really b*tchy and picky with high expectations cause I'm awesome on my own. Anyone wanting to join me better be awesome too.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

itsontherocks said:


> Please don't use the word "men" loosely. It's to degrading to our gender. They are balless and spineless people; that is all.


exactly !!


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I refused to date anyone who was dating multiple people at the same time as me. I only went for men who dated one at a time. I never dated more than 1 man at a time.
> I'd date one, see if it worked and if not I'd move on and find another.
> 
> There are plenty of them out there you just have to decide your own boundaries and stick to them. You have to be picky and ask questions right up front and realize that you'll go through a lot of duds to get a good one but that doesn't mean the entire gender is crap.


Sadly, no there isn't. Met my ex-wife on eHarmony. Met the other one on *******. All were from different areas. Seems all the same around here. Different generations too. Ex-wife Gen-X. Girl from *******, millennial. All the same.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itsontherocks said:


> Sadly, no there isn't. Met my ex-wife on eHarmony. Met the other one on *******. All were from different areas. Seems all the same around here. Different generations too. Ex-wife Gen-X. Girl from *******, millennial. All the same.


Then take a look at the type you are going for and what you are projecting. 

2 women asking you if they can sleep with someone else isn't typical. There are not that many people who are into poly AND don't mention it until later. 
It's rare so find out why you seem to end up with them.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Then take a look at the type you are going for and what you are projecting.
> 
> 2 women asking you if they can sleep with someone else isn't typical. There are not that many people who are into poly AND don't mention it until later.
> It's rare so find out why you seem to end up with them.


That's what's available through online dating. I've since disconnected my ******* subscription. It's much different for men than women online dating; so I understand why it can but hard for any woman to get what a man has to go through just to get a woman to talk to you. By no means am I ugly, but one would be surprised at the amount of rejection a man receives. I've spoken to others, and it seems the same for many. For women, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. It just is.

For the record, the women I thought I was dating from *******, didn't ask to sleep around, she just wanted to continue sampling the merchandise from other men. Both women are highly educated and have careers. One was a doctor one was in education. Not like I am shooting for trailer trash...


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