# Jumbo the Elephant



## JustAnotherGuy1969 (Aug 14, 2021)

Hi, everyone-

I'm looking for some insight and advice about a series of incidents that happened about 20 years ago.

First my vitals: Married 30 years, 4 kids, all grown, marriage has had good times & bad times. Last 10 years pretty much all bad with parents dying, money issues, I had major surgery.

All in all I feel we have a very strong marriage. We are in lock step politically and spiritually, we're both strongly committed to our vows (I think, wait til further down.) We might even be soul mates. Raising 4 kids doesn't leave much time for exploring that kind of thing.

But I feel like we're married without a marriage. I THINK this is 99% because of our financial situation, which I think will change very soon as we have been working on starting a business and we both feel we are poised to succeed and start making money.

My gut tells me that will change everything, but I have leaky gut syndrome and could be wrong.

But there is an elephant in the living room that needs to be shooed out of the house. It might be a small one, it might be an African bull, but it has been bugging the crap out of me for 20 years: The Incidents.

The incidents occurred around 7-10 years after we were married and involved my wife going to see the waste of protoplasm who took her viginity. I think she went to see him 3 or 4 times at the retail store he ran. I've been very vigilant on the "Trust but verify" front and I don't think she ever saw him outside of those times.

Her initial excuse for going to this particular store is because she could get a discount (my first thought was, "Your virginity was worth more than $4.)

Then her excuse changed to, "I just wanted him to know that I was OK, that I had made it," which just sounds like the biggest load of malarkey to me.

I found out about these incidents because her phone butt dialed me during one of her visits and I could hear her talking to him in a flirtatious voice.

To me it was like being punched in the gut. If felt like she was telling me she didn't want to be married to me anymore.

So some background on _their_ relationship. Around age 19 she started working with douchebag and was instantly attracted to him. They had a flirtatious relationship for about two years before he nailed her on his couch. He was drunk, not particularly gentle (and it was consenual) and later he told her she couldn't have been a virgin because she was "too good a lover" (did I mention he's a waste of protoplasm?)

She has a book of poetry she's written that also contains drawings. She's let me look at it whenever I want to. The poems are all about him, I think & they end with a poem about lies. I'm not sure exactly what happened to end their relationship, but I'm pretty sure dishonesty on his part was a factor.

I think they were together for about 6 weeks & she moved on to a few other relationships.

Two years later I met her & we knew within a week, maybe two, that we were going to marry and 18 months later we did, with a child on the way. We started our life together, had our kids, went through the normal ups & downs.

Then 7 to 10 years later she's off to get her discount.

I should also point that in her book she pined over him quite a bit, saying "he would always have a place in her heart." I suspect this was more a young girl's emotions than anything close to the truth.

I don't think she's ever cheated on me, I keep a close eye on things, but I do regard her going to see waste-of-protoplasm guy as an infidelity.

So my questions are two:
For the ladies:
Is there ANY possible validity to this?: "I just wanted him to know that I was OK, that I had made it." ?
For the guys:
Were these infidelities? How serious would you rate them?

Guys and gals feel free to answer both questions, I know you will anyway.

I should say my wife & I are very, very compatible & I don't envision divorcing her, but these incidents from 20 years ago have never been adequately resolved for me.

In my opinion she should be admitting she was wrong and apologizing.

At any rate, like I said we are at a crossroads, we have the option of moving on or re-building our marriage, which I think we can do. I'm going to start pushing us towards intimate, cuddling conversations like we had pre-kids, to start the re-building process.

Thanks if you held on long enough to read this. I'm looking forward to your thoughts and advice.


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

> Is there ANY possible validity to this?: "I just wanted him to know that I was OK, that I had made it." ?


yes, from someone who is insecure. But even so, this is the kind of thing you would only share with your closest most trustworthy girl friend.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

she was exploring and fishing for attention from the doichebag. If he had given it, she’s have been on the couch again.

as for you picking for more cuddling and such,
You’ve not really give any clues about why that isn’t already happening. Deaths and health problems shouldn’t affect that, I wouldn’t think.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I don’t know your wife so I have no idea what her motives were.

I can say that I have thought about running into my ex-fiancé. I would want him to want me. But not because I want him, not because I’d like to do him. I’m sure it’s an insecurity thing for me. I broke it off with him. But he always made me feel less than.

So yeah I’d want him to know I’m ok. I’d want him to want me. So I could be all that more smug about how happy I am now. I will even admit I might flirt a little. But I can assure you I don’t have any feelings of wanting left for him.

In your case however, 4 times seems a bit much. I do wonder though why wait like 20 years to ‘address’ it. Seems like you already decided to move on with your wife.

if you bring this up now and try to make a big deal of it, it will seem odd. Like your looking for something to knit pick. Unless I misread this and it isn’t from 20 years ago.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> I do regard her going to see waste-of-protoplasm guy as an infidelity.


Me, too. I don't think it rises to the level of marital destruction, but it would remain an "elephant".



JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> If felt like she was telling me she didn't want to be married to me anymore.


It would feel like, to me, that I am a "settle", that she really wants to be married to him, but keeps me because of my "qualities". It would make me resentful.



JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> But I feel like we're married without a marriage.


I'd feel that way, too.



JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> In my opinion she should be admitting she was wrong and apologizing.


I agree, and it would give the marital rebuild a much better chance. Your wife needs to know exactly how her actions made you feel, and she needs to "get it" why this is painful for you after 20 years.

The ladies are in a better position to answer the "validity" issues of her statements. To me, they are 100% horse$hit, having no validity at all. She went there because it gave her ego kibbles. 



Evinrude58 said:


> she was exploring and fishing for attention from the doichebag.


Exactly right.


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## JustAnotherGuy1969 (Aug 14, 2021)

NTA said:


> yes, from someone who is insecure. But even so, this is the kind of thing you would only share with your closest most trustworthy girl friend.


What is the 'kind of thing you would only share', the fact that she'd gone to see the douche bag? If so, she didn't share, the butt dial gave her away.



Evinrude58 said:


> as for you picking for more cuddling and such,
> You’ve not really give any clues about why that isn’t already happening. Deaths and health problems shouldn’t affect that, I wouldn’t think.


I think it all comes down to our financial situation, which ultimately, right or wrong, comes down to me to fix by leading us to success. Of course I will need her help, but it's up to me to lead.



Anastasia6 said:


> ...But he always made me feel less than...
> 
> In your case however, 4 times seems a bit much. I do wonder though why wait like 20 years to ‘address’ it. Seems like you already decided to move on with your wife.
> 
> if you bring this up now and try to make a big deal of it, it will seem odd. Like your looking for something to knit pick.


1. What did your ex-fiance make you feel less than?

2. I think ONE time was a bit much. I haven't waited to address this, we've discussed it multiple times. But never in any depth. And I still want my apology!

3. I _am_ committed to moving on with my wife, I'm just not sure she's committed to moving on with me, other than as someone to support her. I'm not looking to knit pick, this is something that has been very painful for me, but I've never had an opportunity to talk calmly with her about it.

There have been plenty of rocky times in our marriage and intimacy has suffered. Now, without kids around, I'm hoping we can go back to where we were when we started dating: being intimate, having pillow talk & SEX!



TJW said:


> Me, too. I don't think it rises to the level of marital destruction, but it would remain an "elephant".
> 
> It would feel like, to me, that I am a "settle", that she really wants to be married to him, but keeps me because of my "qualities". It would make me resentful.
> 
> ...


It's definitely an elephant.

I don't feel like she settled with me. I know about all her exe's and I can assure you she had a real knack for picking losers.

Of course she was bound to get lucky _eventually_, but I don't think it was luck that brought us together & I know I'm the best damned thing man-wise to happen to her.

I'm hoping that after discussing this calmly and finally getting to tell my side of the story a sincere apology will be forth-coming. I really don't think she knows how this has affected me.

"Ego kibbles," I love it! She needs to get those at home, though!

Yes, I appreciate the two replies so far from the ladies.

It's very interesting that they both mentioned *insecurity*, I could see that being the case with my wife. It's giving me a new perspective, although, frankly, I'm still in the same camp as you about the excuses being "100% horse$hit".

Are there any other ladies out there who can elaborate on the insecurity angle?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> She needs to get those at home, though!


That is 100% her choice, and it is 100% possible for her to do so.



JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> our financial situation, which ultimately, right or wrong, comes down to me to fix by leading us to success.


No, sir. I must respectfully disagree with most tenets of this statement. You cannot "lead" to your own success, and you certainly cannot "lead" to your marriage's success. You are BEING LED. Choose your leader more carefully.

Firstly, the success of a marriage does not relate to "financial" success. Financial failure did not cause your wife to seek attention and validation from outside her marriage. Your gut is leading you wrong. 

Secondly, The Lord Jesus Christ was a PERFECT leader. In every way, in every situation. Yet there are countless millions, beginning with many of His contemporaries, who refused to follow Him. Millions, maybe billions are still refusing His leadership today.

Thirdly, He said of Himself ..."foxes have holes....", etc. Even though He was a perfect example, and perfect leader, He did not have "financial success". He never sought to have it.

And, no sir, it does not "come down" to you in any way. Her actions were borne of radical selfishness and of "giving herself permission". I got other news. There are countless cheating wives (and husbands), even the fictitious ones portrayed in country music, who have everything money can buy, yet still seek cheap gratification outside their marriages.



JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> I really don't think she knows how this has affected me.


You're going to have to stop blaming yourself before she figures it out.



JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> I'm just not sure she's committed to moving on with me, other than as someone to support her.


I'm truly sorry. I know how this one feels. Check it out:

ALPHA WIDOW

MORE ABOUT ALPHA WIDOW


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## JustAnotherGuy1969 (Aug 14, 2021)

TJW said:


> JustAnotherGuy1969 said:
> our financial situation, which ultimately, right or wrong, comes down to me to fix by leading us to success.
> 
> No, sir. I must respectfully disagree with most tenets of this statement. You cannot "lead" to your own success, and you certainly cannot "lead" to your marriage's success. You are BEING LED. Choose your leader more carefully.
> ...


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> What is the 'kind of thing you would only share', the fact that she'd gone to see the douche bag? If so, she didn't share, the butt dial gave her away.
> 
> 
> I think it all comes down to our financial situation, which ultimately, right or wrong, comes down to me to fix by leading us to success. Of course I will need her help, but it's up to me to lead.
> ...


When I read your posts I can see why intimacy has suffered. At least from my perspective.

You are jealous of a man who took her virginity 30 years ago. You are more upset about a consensual transaction than she probably ever was. This is retroactive jealousy.
1. Did you not know you weren't her first?

Then you are bringing up more than once something that happened 20 years ago and thinking that eventually you'll get your 'deserved' apology.
2. Have you ever told her you want an apology?
3. Did you two have formal communication about never talking to exes or you just expected that without any communication? Each relationship defines their own boundaries. Seeing someone at a store is hardly a torrid affair.

If she did cheat on you 20 years ago the time to address that was then. If you couldn't get past this indescretion back(whether it be talking or sex) then after about 3 years then you call the marriage and move on. To punish and hold hard feelings against your spouse for 20 years only builds resentment and distance. Nobody wants to be intimate with someone who is constantly holding on to something that can't be changed and certainly if they don't feel they did anything wrong.

4. You seem to believe your intimacy as suffered due to money. Oh so many men like to believe money gets you everythign and can be blamed for everything because then they don't have to take responsibility for building a relationship or for their actions in a relationship. I seriously doubt money is the issue here. Certainly if you have been out of a job or refused to work then that would cause problems. If like some other poster's husband she expressed some very clear needs and you didn't follow through then that could be.

However, what I read from you post. You think you are the best thing that ever happened to her and maybe you are. But the way you express this makes it seem like your wife is beneath you. Please remember she isn't the same woman today that she was 30 years ago. Maybe back then you were the best she could ever do. Maybe today you are the best she could ever do. The world is filled with 50 something women who divorced their perfectly good husband because they got tired of their ****, the kids are out of the house and they'd rather live alone than with a man who continues to make them feel less than.

Oh and what does the bible say about forgiveness? does it say hold onto hurts for 20 years until you get a proper apology?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Her excuses are horseshit. Only she knows what she got out of visiting him at the store. Maybe, she was looking for closure - she gave him her virginity and he crapped on it by basically calling her a liar and then dumped her. She might have been rubbing his nose in it that he lost out.

So, now you think it's time to finally settle this or hit the road. If you're looking for an excuse to divorce, you don't need one. In your mind, what excuse could she come up with that you would find acceptable?

In my mind, a married woman/man fishing for attention from an ex is never acceptable. And, waiting a decade to get to the bottom of an issue is never advisable. I'd flat out tell her that she owes you a sincere apology and you'll expect one within 24 hours. Good luck.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> Her excuses are horseshit. Only she knows what she got out of visiting him at the store. Maybe, she was looking for closure - she gave him her virginity and he crapped on it by basically calling her a liar and then dumped her. She might have been rubbing his nose in it that he lost out.
> 
> So, now you think it's time to finally settle this or hit the road. If you're looking for an excuse to divorce, you don't need one. In your mind, what excuse could she come up with that you would find acceptable?
> 
> In my mind, a married woman/man fishing for attention from an ex is never acceptable. And, waiting a decade to get to the bottom of an issue is never advisable. I'd flat out tell her that she owes you a sincere apology and you'll expect one within 24 hours. Good luck.


It's been two decades. Yes he could easily divorce. I don't think he wants to and this approach may lead to just that. Which is fine. I mean he obviously could go find someone to his liking.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What are you doing to show your wife you love her. What does she do for you?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

*"I should say my wife & I are very, very compatible & I don't envision divorcing her, but these incidents from 20 years ago have never been adequately resolved for me."*

Does you wife feel this way? Does she work? Has she detached?

I see your kids are out of the house and you want to build this relationship. Well that's kind of good. 

Question? Why hasn't building the relationship been a priority before?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sounds like this was someone she really had a crush on and no doubt felt she loved. If you really ever do love someone, even if it doesn't work out, they don't go on your hate and never contact again list. I mean, they didn't date long, so not sure, but maybe she knew him longer than they dated. I still care about a couple of my ex bfs from long ago and had enough in common with them that that bond still exists, though contact is rare and completely nonsexual. If you ever had a real bond with a person, you can move on because they're not the person you should marry, but still care about them. 

I can't say what her situation is with him, but that's just how I am, fyi.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> *OMG, you sound like a Fundie*


Never heard this term before...... "Fundie"..... I plead guilty....... I'm going to order myself a T-shirt.....


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I can't deal with insecure men. I think that is so unattractive. 

I think most people have had at least one bad dating experience where things didn't end right. 

I lost my virginity to someone who really wasn't worth it, but I thought he was "the one" when I was 19. He dumped me and my pride was hurt. For a few years after, I enjoyed when he found out I was doing great! I rubbed a few things on his face. I also wanted him to see how good and happy I was. I wanted him to want me again. I had a plan, I was going to get him back, get him to love me again and dump him just like he did to me. 

That was over 20 years ago. 

Through out the years, I realized he wasn't worth my time or attention. Actually, I have to thank him for being my first, for showing me how bad he was in bed, and what a crappy boyfriend he was.

I married a wonderful man who treats me right. My husband is not insecure about my previous relationships. He wasn't my first, I wasn't his first. My ex is my contact on FB and we have exchanged a few words on his posts or mine. No big deal. My husband and I share the same account. 

I'm sure your wife has moved on. You can't compare a 20 year old marriage to a teenage relationship. You are the one who hasn't moved on. You are probably the only one who sees a big elephant in the room. 

Everyone has a past. Is her past worth blowing up your 30 year old marriage? If she apologized, do you think that's going to be enough for you? 

I don't think that's going to be enough for you.

Figure out what you really want. 

If my husband came and said I'm jealous of your first I would be really disappointed. There's no comparison between my husband and my ex. No comparison whatsoever.


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## JustAnotherGuy1969 (Aug 14, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> When I read your posts I can see why intimacy has suffered. At least from my perspective.
> 
> You are jealous of a man who took her virginity 30 years ago.
> *I'm not jealous of...let's call him Nemo, since "waste-of-protoplasm-guy" might make me appear to be jealous.
> ...





Blondilocks said:


> Her excuses are horseshit. Only she knows what she got out of visiting him at the store. Maybe, she was looking for closure - she gave him her virginity and he crapped on it by basically calling her a liar and then dumped her. She might have been rubbing his nose in it that he lost out.
> 
> *Bingo! That is very insightful of you! We talked last night and that's exactly how she framed it. The other times we've discussed this her explanations weren't framed quite like this. It gives me a new perspective, one that makes sense to me, but I still don't care for the tip-toeing around behind my back.
> 
> ...





Evinrude58 said:


> What are you doing to show your wife you love her. What does she do for you?


*I pay the mortgage. She makes an excellent BLT. I'll expand on that at the end of this post. *



Anastasia6 said:


> *"I should say my wife & I are very, very compatible & I don't envision divorcing her, but these incidents from 20 years ago have never been adequately resolved for me."*
> 
> Does you wife feel this way? Does she work? Has she detached?
> *Ouch. This hurts already. I'll elucidate on this at the bottom of this post. *
> ...





DownByTheRiver said:


> Sounds like this was someone she really had a crush on and no doubt felt she loved.
> *Absotively, posilutely right. *
> If you really ever do love someone, even if it doesn't work out, they don't go on your hate and never contact again list. I mean, they didn't date long, so not sure, but maybe she knew him longer than they dated. I still care about a couple of my ex bfs from long ago and had enough in common with them that that bond still exists, though contact is rare and completely nonsexual. If you ever had a real bond with a person, you can move on because they're not the person you should marry, but still care about them.
> 
> ...





pastasauce79 said:


> I can't deal with insecure men. I think that is so unattractive.
> *I think that's a universal constant for women AND men.*
> 
> I think most people have had at least one bad dating experience where things didn't end right.
> ...


*OK, this is the bottom:*
We had a long talk the other night over a glass of wine about the business, did a little strategizing, discussed the distribution of responsibilities. That went well.

Thennnnn, I brought up the state of our marriage, told her I would like for us to go back to where we were when we first started dating & things were good. And, yes, yes, I know this is not possible, we're not the same people we were, we're both on our 5th regeneration for crying out loud, but as close as possible.

But intimacy, pillow talk, love-making with the addition of being friends would be nice.

The long and the short is that I asked her if she had "checked out." She thought briefly and said she'd had "one foot out," a few times. Well, hell, I have too, so no surprise there.

Then I asked her if she thought that financial success would allow us to regain intimacy & love-making in our marriage and she said she _thinks_ it could happen.

Not terribly encouraging.

So it appears the rock-solid foundation I envisioned may actually be a giant, cracked slab of sandstone that is teetering back & forth, possibly with a pissed off King Cobra on the far side of the slab wanting a piece of me & I dropped my bullwhip & I'm out of bullets.

But on the (maybe, possibly) positive side, she was a little irritated by the time we got to this portion of the conversation & she has been known to be self-contradictory in the past. I think that might have been what Robert Heinlein was alluding to: Women are entitled to "little lies" to protect themselves.

We didn't speak much yesterday. She didn't seem angry, but I was definitely in a mood (please understand I have been busting my nuts for 2 years getting this business ready to FLY, and what I heard the other night was NOT what I wanted to hear) and she gave me space.

I went for a walk yesterday evening, prayed a lot, sat on the bench up behind the church enjoying the gloaming & mulled over my options.

I'm a little (lot) reluctant to pull the trigger on the large purchase needed to complete the business plan and start down the runway for "It's possible it could happen."

On the other hand my wife has been known to say things out of spite & then reverse herself the next day. Hence the need for the Polygraph.

So, we'll see what happens tomorrow, or rather later today.

One thing for sure, it's bound to be interesting.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

@JustAnotherGuy1969 , I am a 'girl' (hey, peanut gallery, I hear you all snorting - check it!).


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> Hi, everyone-
> 
> I'm looking for some insight and advice about a series of incidents that happened about 20 years ago.
> 
> ...


She probably still feels _something_ for him, but I don't think she cheated or anything like that, or even would. Women with issues usually tend to gravitate toward the jerks in their past, not the nice guy they have now. Not saying she _wants_ him like that, but it's probably seeing someone from the past, etc. I wouldn't think too much of it, but you're right to be annoyed. I might also keep an eye on her, just in case. But at this point, she really doesn't need to be seeing him anymore, like, going out of her way. He knows she's 'made it' (and yes this is an excuse). There's no further need for contact.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

"They both, presumably, have pee pees."

I think women want a lot more than a pee pee, otherwise a dildo should do it. 

Why didn't you ask her about the guy? You had a chance to say, "hey, remember your first "pee pee" why did you go and see him?" "Do you think about him?" "Do you think you could have been happier with him?" 

You have to get the elephant out of the room. Just ask her already so you can move on.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

GC1234 said:


> She probably still feels _something_ for him, but I don't think she cheated or anything like that, or even would. Women with issues usually tend to gravitate toward the jerks in their past, not the nice guy they have now. Not saying she _wants_ him like that, but it's probably seeing someone from the past, etc. I wouldn't think too much of it, but you're right to be annoyed. I might also keep an eye on her, just in case. But at this point, she really doesn't need to be seeing him anymore, like, going out of her way. He knows she's 'made it' (and yes this is an excuse). There's no further need for contact.





pastasauce79 said:


> "They both, presumably, have pee pees."
> 
> I think women want a lot more than a pee pee, otherwise a dildo should do it.
> 
> ...


You both realize this was 20 years ago. They did talk she said she just wanted him to know she made it. OP wasn't satisfied with the answer and is looking for an apology 20 years later.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

This doesn't make any sense to me. If she's insecure. . .maybe i could understand her flirting with a new man. Running back to the guy who took her virginity so he knows she made it & is OK. That's crazy. 

I am "friendly" with almost everybody I ever dated as in if I bump into them when I'm out & about I can be cordial for 10-15 minutes. I don't seek these people out. We don't exchange holiday cards or acknowledge each others' birthdays. There is no deliberate contact. 

For this to have been going on for 20+ years is mindboggling to me. You have to talk to her about this. Admit to her that it bothers you but don't let her gaslight you about it. 

I also don't think that money alone will fix the problem. She feel unfulfilled. Launching a business isn't getting it done for her but I wish you well with the project. Your success there will help you feel better about yourself.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> You both realize this was 20 years ago. They did talk she said she just wanted him to know she made it. OP wasn't satisfied with the answer and is looking for an apology 20 years later.


I know. I also think he doesn't feel secure about himself and his accomplishments. 30 years later and they are still struggling financially. You know how men are about success and relationships. He thinks she misses her first "pee pee," I think finances and married life has taken a toll on her and their relationship, her first has nothing to do with it. 

He should ask her directly and move on.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think you should just ask her and move forward as well. My opinion is this: if your wife can’t say she loves you and never wants to be with anyone but you, and wants to have a great marriage like you did in the past, I think you’re good to move on. Money and live have very little in common, unless you have a woman that loves money and that doesn’t seem to be your wife. 
The thing is, if you’ve been ignoring your relationship for 20 years, how can you expect your wife to react to a sudden need on YOUR part to change? All her responses seemed to be that if a perfectly normal and trustworthy wife. 20yrs ago? Hell man, worry about what you’ve done for 20 years to the PRESENT.
Sounds like you should start working on helping your wife to fall in love with you again instead of asking if she can.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> Hi, everyone-
> 
> I'm looking for some insight and advice about a series of incidents that happened about 20 years ago.
> 
> ...


So events from 2 decades ago have remained unresolved for you. AND there is some RJ surrounding her first encounter, enhanced by her pining for him. 

How could this ever be resolved if it hasnt been in 20 years? Lets imagine the wors, that she was physical with her old flame 20'years ago but just wants to bury it. She ultimately chose you. Dredging it up now serves no useful purpose for you. The past cant be undone. My advice is leave that stone unturned.

Wife and I had traumatic uphraval four decades ago. Not infidelity or addiction or abuse. But so traumatic we never discuss it ever. We both know it is there in the past sleeping. We both choose to leave it there.


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## JustAnotherGuy1969 (Aug 14, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> @JustAnotherGuy1969 , I am a 'girl' (hey, peanut gallery, I hear you all snorting - check it!).


*I thought so, but wasn't sure. *



GC1234 said:


> She probably still feels _something_ for him,
> *Interestingly, the first year we were married (and this was a whopping THIRTY years ago) I found a Christmas card my wife had addressed to Nemo. I found the card after Christmas, asked her about it, she said she'd had second thoughts about whether it was appropriate. I don't know if she still feels anything for him, but she apparently did when we got married.*
> 
> but I don't think she cheated or anything like that, or even would. Women with issues usually tend to gravitate toward the jerks in their past, not the nice guy they have now.
> ...





pastasauce79 said:


> I know. I also think he doesn't feel secure about himself and his accomplishments. 30 years later and they are still struggling financially.
> *Not at all true. Shortly after we married I was making very good money, which might have been why she felt comfortable going to see Nemo to do the litter box on him.
> 
> I was consulting at the time, made a lot of money over 13 years, then the industry changed, consulting started to dry up.
> ...





Evinrude58 said:


> I think you should just ask her and move forward as well. My opinion is this: if your wife can’t say she loves you and never wants to be with anyone but you, and wants to have a great marriage like you did in the past, I think you’re good to move on.
> *My wife & I were talking about the L word recently & I asked her why it is so easy to tell your dog you love them, but it's difficult to say to a person and she opined it was the fear of rejection. Animals give unconditional love.
> 
> Move on how? Divorce her or full speed ahead with the business?*
> ...





Rus47 said:


> So events from 2 decades ago have remained unresolved for you. AND there is some RJ surrounding her first encounter,
> *I'm still trying to figure out how retroactive jealousy got thrown into this. The guy is a tosser, there's nothing to be jealous of. He got there first, so what? Virginity isn't all it's cracked up to be.
> 
> My issue with 20 years ago has nothing to do with jealousy, rather a feeling of being slighted (to put it mildly) because she was sneaking around behind my back.*
> enhanced by her pining for him.


*I had an epiphany today: Jumbo the Elephant has nothing to do my wife "Finding Nemo," (HA! I've been waiting to use that!)

Jumbo is actually the overall state of our relationship as I unwittingly alluded when I said I feel like we are "Married without a marriage."

We've been taking a pretty big kick in the crotch from life for about 18 years now & it has taken a toll. Along the way intimacy just sort of trickled away.

Sometimes life gives you a **** sandwich. You don't have to like it, you just have to eat it. With all we've been through the fact that we're still together is probably an excellent sign.

And after thinking things over while writing my novella in pastasauce79's post above, I'm even more certain that resolving our financial issues is the path to getting our marriage back on track.

When I mentioned being married without a marriage the other night, my wife didn't agree, or disagree, but if she doesn't feel the same way, she would have been pissed at my comment & might have said she's had "one foot out" (on the way to checking out) & not meant it.

This has happened before & leaves me mentally flipping a coin. Usually, in the next day or two, she will hug me, apologize and tell me what she really meant. (Is that a **** test? I'm thinking it isn't, but I can't find the word I'm looking for (part of the TBI.)

That didn't happen today, although we did drive together somewhere and things were civil.

Finally, for those of you who insist money isn't important: My wife mentions fairly frequently that, "We need to get our business going, make money, pay off our bills & start living our life (post-kids.) I think she's giving me hints.

So if you will excuse me I am now going to go send $50,000 via PayPal to someone named tru$teeDud3 and get my business going!

PEE PEE!*


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think what your wife was trying to tell you is that getting your business going and making lots of money won't magically cure what ails your marriage. You seem to imagine it will. You may be wrong. 

Sure, things would be better and more stable if the money issues were resolved. There might also be other things that need work in your marriage. The two are not mutually exclusive. So fixing the money problems might not 100% fix your marriage. Expecting that it will may lead you to being blind to the other issues that are going on in your relationship that need to be addressed.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

JustAnotherGuy1969 said:


> *I thought so, but wasn't sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We'll, that explains a lot of what's going on in your marriage.

You guys have been through a lot! 

As a wife of someone with a medical condition, I can tell you just dealing with my husband's disease is exhausting some times. I can't imagine going through my parents getting sick and dying, and financial problems at the same time. 

Your wife is tired. She should be tired, emotionally and physically. 

I don't know her, but it seems she's been by your side, in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer, through out these years. 

If she didn't want you, she would have left you when things got rough. 

Try to see things through her eyes. She's been taking care of her children, her parents, her husband, herself. And now she doesn't know if the business is going to flip or flop. That's a lot to process. That's a lot to go through. 

You want to find someone to blame for your wife's distance. All your problems are the cause of your wife's distance. It's understandable she has a foot out the door. 

Have you guys seen a marriage counselor? 

Have you asked your wife how she feels about herself? How she feels about you? What are her fears? What makes her happy lately? Do you know who is your wife right now?

You are worried about your business and your marriage, and you need your wife's help to get the business going. She might need a break from all the help she's been providing. Who's been taking care of her? 

I think she's been very supportive, but that's not good enough for you. You are still obsessed with what happened 20 years ago (wtf) that you can't see what she's done for the people she loves for the last 20 years. 

I think you need to talk to a counselor and figure out what's going on in your head. I think your wife has been very clear showing you what her priorities are. What more do you want?


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## JustAnotherGuy1969 (Aug 14, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> We'll, that explains a lot of what's going on in your marriage.
> 
> You guys have been through a lot!
> 
> ...


You are correct, she has been at my side through thick & thin and I think I've done the same for her.

In my heart I believe (is know too strong?) that our marriage has a solid foundation, but sometimes my _brain _gets in the way and tells me otherwise.

We had a nice, productive talk this evening. I think the "one foot out the door" comment the other night was my fault. I was "leading the witness."

Tonight she said sometimes she just feels like running away and hiding, which I understand.

She gained a lot of weight after her dad got sick & I know she has a poor self-image because of that (hates herself is what she said), but she has been working _hard_ to lose weight and it's working! I support her any way I can in her quest, but no nagging.

I don't think she would go see a marriage counselor, we discussed that years ago and she was very adamant in her "No!" I've always wanted to go to a Marriage Encounter, personally, but she's not interested in that either.

We are both agreed that getting the business up and running is our most important task at this time & I think we are in lock step about working hard & succeeding.

I suggested we start spending time together twice a week, for an hour or two, no TV, just the two of us. On the couch or on the bed. No alcohol (too many calories) & no strings attached. If anything physical happens, that's fine, but the goal for me is to just spend time reattaching.

It's surprising how easily we got _out _of the habit of sharing pillow talk. I think reattaching will help us both, and our marriage!

Oh, and I'm not worried about the incidents of 20 years ago. As I stated somewhere above I hadn't properly thought things out when I created this _Jumbo _thread: The incidents aren't the problem, it's the state of our marriage.

That was another mistake I made the other night, saying we're "married without a marriage."

I was being overly-dramatic & a bit of a knee-biter, well a jerk, anyway.

I think it would be safe to say our marriage IS still around, sitting like a bloom closed up on a chilly night.

With the sunshine of success I expect it to blossom into a big & beautiful golden flower. When I said that last night, the missus agreed with me, so once again I would say we are in lock step.

Excelsior!

_All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well._- Julian of Norwich


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