# Need validation that I'm not nuts



## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

Hi all:

I am new here but really need to get some advice form those who have had experience in dealing with potential infidelity in their marriages... I have a counselling appointment this week but need to talk about this...

I have been married to a wonderful man for 10 years and we've been together for 12. We have a daughter and I am currently 6 months pregnant with our second. I would consider us to have a very good relationship - we never fight and had complete trust between us until recently. I may be misinterpreting some of these signs due to my own recent self esteem issues and my snooping but I think we may be in trouble....

I just turned 40 and am pregnant so I am already a bit emotinal about these things. I started to feel a bit insecure about myself and that lead me to look at some aspects of our relationship I am not entirely happy with. I feel like we have been drifting apart as we do not spend time alone together and he is increasingly away from our family. We were sleeping in sep bedrooms as he snores veyr badly. We rarely have sex. 
When we do it is me that initiates it and I am most often turned away. I feel like we lack real intimacy between us. He rarely compliments me and shows very little affection to me. He is a kind and considerate man but I am feeling like there is something wrong with me as he does not seem to desire me as a woman . We never had an overly active sex life but it has declined gradually to the point where I feel my pregnancy was the immaculate conception.... We could go months without and not for lack of effort on my part. 

Due to these issues, I started to have fears that perhaps he was being satisfied elsewhere and that was why he had no desire to have sex with me. I never dreamt he would be unfaithful in any way but due to some stories ha has told me and some personal experiences I have had, I started to wonder more. He recently took a boys only sports trip where he confided in me that the purpose of the trip for most of the married men that go is ti have an opportunity to drink and cheat on their wives. He goes on many business trips where this behaviour occurs as well. I recently found out that his workplace is a hotbed of flirting and such between coworkers. I work in a male dominated industry and have had my eyes opened to the male psyche in a shocking way. I see what goes on with my male clients and am constantly being sent sexual jokes, sexual emails and worse. I do not send these type of emails and do not respond in kind to this kind of baiting from them. I have a very liberal sense of humour and know that men will be men. I am not a prude and am very accepting of what I would consider to me guys talking smack and joking around. I was very concerned when he announced he was once again going on the boys trip... knowing what I know from the last one... Not wanting to be the paranoid wife, I lied and said it was fine that he went. I had a bit of a meltdown before he went as he was away for my 40th, I was alone and I confessed I was feeling very lonely and upset about these issues in our marriage.
Due to all these feelings, I had an overwhelming sense of dread. I snooped in his personal email account only to discover some shocking emails about the trip. He made some very raunchy sexual comments about the goings on and I was completely shocked that this was coming from my wonderful husband. Comments like " don't worry, we got you covered, in bed with a good hooker. we got your back buddy", "this is a drink/sports/**** fest", "let's hope that 51 isnt the average age of the women in the bar" and "nothing wrong with a nice cougar". His profile for this trip stated some disturbing things too - like the movie that would best describe his life is Deuce Bigelow, if he had only $50 left to his name he'd get a rub and tug..... this was really shocking to me and over the top even for guys I thought.... This was really alarming to me since he never wants to have sex. I then discovered he went to a strip club while there. that would have been somehing I expected when out with the boys BUT he lied to me when I asked him and fessed up when confronted with a lame excuse that he forgot they went...said it was his friend who wanted to go and nothing happened. Said he lied as I would freak out just like I was already doing. Did not say he was sorry he lied about it tho. He is still upset I checked his emails and comments on changing his password. I told him that would seriously indicate he had something to hide if he did that. Now he deletes most emails, texts and BB messages after he responds. He does keep his phone pretty close now. I could not let this go with my gut screaming at me that something was wrong... I have since discovered he sent a very sexual joke to an attractive co-worker he denied working with. It was a picture joke showing a mans very large penis. She comments "you wish" and he responds back "no, YOU wish".... why would she wish his penis looked like that? The last straw was another email to an attractive female coworker he has talked about setting up with a friend of his.I had found rather sexual emails back and forth from them on occassion that alarmed me.. but this last one is way too far in my opinion. They have a businesss conversation about an account and she asks him to talk to them. He says" what am 
I, your *****?", she responds "Yes, yes you are my *****, I thought you liked that, wink", he then I feel take it way to far and says "This is not exactly the way I had envisioned being your *****. I figured you'd be wearing a sexy s & m outfit or something along those lines, haha", she responds " Did you imagine the black or the red outfit?", he says " I had the black one with your blonde hair and the red one with a wig". she does not respond to this one. I am so hurt, mad and shocked... When confronted about it he says it was all a joke. Everyone at work jokes like that. There was nothing sexual about it , no sexual intent was there. Beside, he says, it wasnt meant for me to see..... WTF??????????????????????????????????? 
And to top it all off, he's on a business trip right now with this woman and others he emailed overnight for two nights..... HELP!


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

Your suspicions are valid unfortunately you tipped him off when you confronted him with scant evidence and now he's going to cover his tracks and it will be that much more difficult to expose him.

Even if he wasn't cheating you've got big problems with the marriage, and with a second child on the way.. you've got your hands full.

Wish I had something more to offer in terms of advice but I'm coming up short.

You want more solid proof, there are lots of ways to get it.. phone tracking and a VAR in the car, for starters.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

I feel I am justified in my feeling as this is highly innapropriate. He feels that it is just joking and not wrong at all..... After I stood my ground that I DID NOT agree, he said maybe it was not appropriate and he will be more careful twith his joking so there are no mixed signals going out.... He has asked me why I think he is cheating, what proof did I have and how long had I been looking at his correspondences.... He has since deleted alot of the emails I quoted... I can read this as he is very upset that I dont trust him (thus his anger, shock, and hurt) OR I can take it at face value and read it like anyone else would... that there is a strong possibility he has something brewing.... I may invest in some tools... what would you all suggest? The voice activated recorder or a cell phone spy app? He does alot of BBM so I dont know if that would work but it would allow me to access his work emails to monitor his emails with coworkers....


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

superspy said:


> I feel I am justified in my feeling as this is highly innapropriate. He feels that it is just joking and not wrong at all..... ..


You are completely justified and he is full of bullsnot. Joking around with close guy friends - sure but not to that extent. And there is no "joking around" with female acquaintances - just fishing. 




superspy said:


> After I stood my ground that I DID NOT agree, he said maybe it was not appropriate and he will be more careful twith his joking so there are no mixed signals going out....* He has asked me why I think he is cheating, what proof did I have and how long had I been looking at his correspondences.*... ....


The bold sentence is chilling. He is literally challenging you to prove it. Very confident. Very c0cky. 





superspy said:


> He has since deleted alot of the emails I quoted... I can read this as he is very upset that I dont trust him (thus his anger, shock, and hurt) OR I can take it at face value and read it like anyone else would... that there is a strong possibility he has something brewing.... I may invest in some tools... what would you all suggest? The voice activated recorder or a cell phone spy app? He does alot of BBM so I dont know if that would work but it would allow me to access his work emails to monitor his emails with coworkers....


Try the VAR. But as far as I'm concerned it's just a game to him. He will tell you he knew you were snooping and set up whatever conversations you discover as a "joke" or a "test". He's a slimy slippery weasel. Talk to a lawyer to find out where you stand. Because you are standing alone.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

It's like he's two different people... It just doesn't add up to me or make any sense.... He wasn't sarcastic in his questioning about what I suspected but it still bothers me that he asked those specific questions.... He had deleted all of the incoming msgs about the S & m thing but forgot to get rid of his sent items... He clued into that while we were talking and was like "wow, you even went in my deleted items to look at that..." He got really upset when he looked n MY computer and saw I had sent the email to a close friend to ask her opinion... Stood my ground and said if it wasn't innaparopriate as he said, then why would you care that she saw it???? He dodged around that one...


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

So sorry superspy! I completely agree with you and your intuition. NO ONE knows our spouses better than we do. If your radar is up, it is a sign. Don't take this lightly, do whatever you need to do to protect you and your child(ren). The fact that you are pregnant really complicates this. Your health is paramount here. How dare he do this to you while carrying his child. So selfish & unfair!! The whole situation stinks. All I can say is, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what it is a duck! Protect and defend yourself and gather the answers you need. I really hope things work itself out for you.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for the confirmation that I should keep my guard up. It's so hard as I love him more than anything and want to rationalize all of these clues. I almost believe that he is being truthful that he wold never cheat on me but then like you said, brokenearted, it doesn't seem logical to me. He is so convincing that I am constanly second guessing my interpretation of all these things.... He even said to me that I was taking this all out of context ... he is so vehement in his denials and profession of his love for me and our family.... I am so stressed out about this... I am having trouble sleeping.. I'm losing weight and am crying all the time. I appreciate the feedback from all of you and can hardly wait to see the therapist on Friday to speak to her about all of this.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Superspy I can relate to your story. I am the guy who did this to his wife. Not the talking to other women, that never happened. My wife was pregnant with our second child found my skeletons in the closet. My secrets was porn and looking up females from my past. I did the erase my history, lock my phone, put passwords on things. All that made it ten times WORSE. Your husband has to become a open book. Full transparency from here on out if he wants the marriage to survive. He has to make a lot of changes. I have, while its been a bumpy ride I am embarrassed for my past. MC would be a good start. He is very defensive right now. He is going to fight you every step of the way but eventually he will get it, or should get it. Your not insane. You put your husband on a pedastel for a very long time and you are shocked he is not perfect. That's ok. You both can rebound from this. Good luck and don't beat yourself up. You have a baby inside you to worry about. Hopefully your husband wakes up quickly and gets it right.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks richie33... it's nice to get a man's perspective on this too. My brother read the emails and feels he was way out of line talking like that. Hubby feels he has't done anything wrong and therefore can't or won't take responsability for his innapropriate actions it seems. He knows what he did hurt me but says it wasn't intentional.... again... because I was never supposed to see those emails.... It's like he doesnt see WE have a serious issue here.. it seems like I am overreacting to some harmles inter office joking.... funny, he never sent me emails like that when we worked together.... but he isn't like other men, he wouldn't cheat even if it is acceptable in his work and social environments.... YOU, richie33, see that even tho there was not a physical affair, this is only a hop, skip and a jump away from one.... Kudos to you for looking inward to try and rebuild your lives together... I hope that we are able to do the same.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Doesn't sound like 'joking' at all to me. Saying "haha" doesn't make it a joke. If he's spending time with her right now, say ... in a hotel bar ... I'd say there is a better than even chance they move that party to her room. They are both talking the talk and they are both thinking about it. Let's hope he does the right thing.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Wow, your husband sounds like he has a sharp tongue for breaking/testing boundaries. 

Get every email, send it to yourself, get all evidence you can get. Put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his vehicle.

Build up your little pool of evidence, especially emails and you can expose far and wide to whomever you please. Even HR at his work place. Surprise him and, let him know that married men do not do these things. Married men do not go out like single lads on BOYS trip. Leave the BOYS trip to BOYS, immature and, single. No more, BOYS nights out (BNO), no more strip clubs, no more Mrs Nice Superspy!!

Do not be afraid to nuke this little c0ckroach. He has gone far beyond the threshold of "sweet, charming husband".

This type of communication is outright vulgar, disrespectful, extremely unprofessional and, completely inappropriate and, unnecessary!!!!! Cease and desist are his next orders!

Expose, expose expose.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for your input. I'm going to look into getting the VAR... I have sent some of the emails to myself as he has already deleted some of the incriminating ones. I am pretty laid back and never wanted to restrict his social activities with his buddies but cannot tolerate some of the things that are going on there, even if he isnt partaking in the physical stuff. I dont see how it is healthy to put yourself in an environment where half of all the people are openly cheating and the others are just watching it all unfold, protecting each other's backs... I cannot accept that he feels the last email to his coworker was totally fine as it was a joke and everyone at work does it. I will not accept that I am over reacting and reading it out of context. I could show that to any woman and they would be mortified if their husband had sent it... even the men are agreeing it was out of line..... I hope I am able to track if he is being true to his word in that he "wil be more careful what he emails so it isn't sending mixed signals" as he puts it..... seems like the signals were loud and clear to me and that other woman.....


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You should find some useful tools on this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/67661-become-spy-catching-them-technology.html

You also need to prepare yourself to put your foot down hard. If you find nothing further is amiss, the behaviour still needs to stop, yesterday. But what if you do find something. You need to steel yourself to take the actions you will have to take. You need to be prepared to lose your marriage to have a chance to save it. You need to be prepared to treat him as an enemy, a continuous liar, someone who must constantly prove himself with his actions, not his words. Most of all, you cannot allow him to use your love, and your desire to stay married against you. If he cheated, but you still want to try, you give him the choice to do the right thing. Then you make sure he knows he has one, single shot to fix things or he's gone.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

The point is

While all of the stuff about emails etc may be inappropriate, disrespectfull etc. etc.: 

He has no sex with her. 

No sex, no love. 

He does not love you.

That is the problem.


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## DrLoveGuru (Mar 5, 2013)

Go ahead and just file for divorce now!


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> The point is
> 
> While all of the stuff about emails etc may be inappropriate, disrespectfull etc. etc.:
> 
> ...


No, that is not necessarily so. Lots of marriage relationships dwindle to roommate status, so much so, its s joke or stereotype. And it is a bad joke. I think it happens without the couples ever really realising exactly what it is that starts changing, and thus have no real idea how to stop it. This is exactly the premise of mmslp.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

You are not nuts. And I am sorry.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Does he use the computer for his emails? Of so, get a keylogger on it.

I have known jokes and such like that get bandied around, but I would suggest that those who get involved in these either already have poor boundaries, or are degrading their own boundaries. I think people who engage in this type of chat are also on the look out for something else at any time. I would be very concerned if I were you, and you need to put your foot down, very very firmly.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

I don't want to throw away 12 years and all that is good about our marriage and family. I dont think he has taken this to the physical level but I do feel it could easily end up there. I agree about the boundaries and tried to have a conversation about what is and isn't appropriate. I tried to turn it around and say I was examining my own behaviour and what i was conveying in emails as i knew how easily this type of joking can send the wrong kind of message to the person recieveing it. If i didnt have the intimacy issues to deal with I might be able to look at all those emails a little less harshly (even tho I still feel they are over the line) but when I look at everything I am currently experiencing, his behaviour in hiding things and the content of some of these emails, I cannot help but be afraid that he is heading down a slippery slope. Many of the emails are all business, however, this is not the first email with sexual overtones that HE has sent HER. There arent alot of them but it always seems that he is the initiator of this kind of talk. He doesn't send all of his clients and coworkers these type of emails. Just a few of the females. I should ask him if his boss sends emails like this to all the women in the office... If I were a gambling woman, I'd say chances are no way in hell...Going to look at ordering the VAR online today as I cannot seem to stop obessessing about this. I guess it is due to the fact that i cnnot come to terms with the fact he does not see these jokes as wrong. He agrees that he hurt me "unintentionally" but that isnt really the point......


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Superspy how long were you snooping before you confronted him? The reason I ask is if it was over the course of a few months and he had no idea, if he was having a physical affair you would have found it. Now he knows he will try and go underground. Let him know the pain and hurt you feel. Right now he is going shift the blame on you evading his privacy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

I guess I have had this feeling for a couple of months now... all leadin gup to that damn trip he took in Feb. When I looked back i found a few suggestive emails to the coworkers that were from October. When I first told him of my feelings of course I had to divulge the eveidence and where and how I found it... he had asked me how long I had been looking at his stuff. I lied and said only a week or so...I have not found anything I would consider condemning and proof that it has gone physical but I am shocked and hurt by what I did find. He says he has always joked around like this. Like that was comforting! He was angry and said" then lets just check your phone!" He grabbed the phone and started to look at it, then angrily said "I'm not going to stoop that low" and threw it on the couch towards me. It definitley bothers me that he was that angry about me looking at it. I dont even have a password on my work phone and he knows my password on my personal phone. I told him he could look at anything of mine anytime as I have absolutely no secrets and nothig to hide from him. Said if I wanted to look at his phone or email I should have asked him.....
He knows I am terribly hurt and angry as I blew up at him Friday night. He has been BBMing me this week end ( as he is once again away on business) and has expressed his concern for me. He is apologetic that he hurt me but he says it was not intentional. He has stopped with the whole " but you were never supposed to read that, it wasn't meant for you to see, you should not have gone into my email/phone" crap at least. tha tin itself was a bit alarming. I expected him to be a bit hurt and somewhat defensive but this really seems to bother him.. whcih of course bothers me all the more. Now I feel as if I have to try and put on a good show that I am "dealing with MY feelings and MY issues" and keep on looking.....


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## Yessongs72 (Dec 6, 2012)

superspy said:


> I don't want to throw away 12 years and all that is good about our marriage and family.


Even if you let him go, you are not the one who is throwing it away.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Your going to hear people tell you divorce. Take that advice with a grain of salt. Go to MC. Husband has to own up to his poor choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

I respect that others may feel that divorce is the best option but that is not my personal choice at this time. I agree he has made some bad choices and I can even understand perhaps why he may have made them considering our marital issues. This in no way means what he did was ok, just that I feel like it hasn't gone so far that I cannot forgive him as long as he recognizes these bad choices, stops this behaviour and focuses on our relationship.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

superspy said:


> I respect that others may feel that divorce is the best option but that is not my personal choice at this time. I agree he has made some bad choices and I can even understand perhaps why he may have made them considering our marital issues. This in no way means what he did was ok, just that I feel like it hasn't gone so far that I cannot forgive him as long as he recognizes these bad choices, stops this behaviour and focuses on our relationship.


the problem is that he knows you won't leave him and therefore has no incentive to change, admit what he has done, be transparent or even acknowledge what he did was wrong

please read the newbie link in my signature


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

my advice-

since you already confronted without knowing everything yet I suggest you make it appear it is a dead issue and go into investigation mode- get a keylogger on his laptop/computer so you get his email password, if possible retrieve texts from his phone and put a VAR in his car

once you have a clearer picture of what he is doing you can confront with a position of strength


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

I have told him that I intend to speak to a therapist to talk about my feelings and decide what action I am going to take regarding my marriage. I asked him i fhe realized this was so serious to me that I am considering leaving our marriage. I think after my blowup, he has seen just how badly shaken, hur,t and angry I am about this. He has asked me if I am going to leave. I have not said yes or no at this point. After the blowup he said that maybe what he sent was innapropriate. This still feels insincere to me somehow. As though I had to get pissed and start yelling and crying for him to get a clue. I agree that this is a major issue as we obviously have very different opinions on what kind of behaviour is acceptable. I am trying to expect a positive outcome but am also prepared for the worst.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

I agree with your suggestions. I hate having to do things this way but I still doubt he is being completely honest with me. Why stop doing something you dont feel is wrong? I am going to look into the VAR and start researching the phone app you can buy to track emails, calls and text msgs. I dont think it will trakc BBM msgs but I will be able to monitor the correspondence at work with these women and see if he is committed to stopping the sexual emails.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm sure his opinion would be different if he found similar messages from you to random guys.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

Funny you should mention that as I brought that exact point up. I work with all men and you should see the s%#t I recieve from them. He brought this up. He felt that what he did was no different than what I do. However, I pointed out that I AM NO THE ONE SENDING THEM these jokes etc.... I AM NOT INTITIATING THESE INNAPROPRIATE CONVERSATIONS WITH MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX. I also referenced a conversation I had with him about how I was personally taking a look at how I respond to these emails I am sent. I said I wanted to be sure I was not encouraging this behaviour with the way that I responded to them. Still tried to say it was no different. I asked him how he would feeel if I had started a similar conversation with another man.. "envisioning " them in a spandex thing as my b*%#h. He said he would trust that it was only a joke.... He doesn't seem to be upset by the way these men I work with are behaving towards me.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You are discounting your gut instinct too much. Humans are sexual creatures, you don't just flip it off and on with a switch. There are tons of red flags in your description.

You may not WANT to choose divorce, but if you put an ultimatum to him, you have to be prepared to follow through. And if you are unwilling to put an ultimatum to him, to make him choose, then he will not choose, he will carry on misbehaving, because nothing of real consequence will happen (consequence to him, you'll put yourself through hell).

You cannot nice someone out of an affair. Nor can harsh action drive them away, for if it does, they were already gone, you only confirmed it for yourself.

Have you read through that other thread? There are programs to recover deleted emails from a hard drive. 

No one wants to believe their spouse has cheated, but it happens. A lot.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

superspy said:


> Funny you should mention that as I brought that exact point up. I work with all men and you should see the s%#t I recieve from them. He brought this up. He felt that what he did was no different than what I do. However, I pointed out that I AM NO THE ONE SENDING THEM these jokes etc.... I AM NOT INTITIATING THESE INNAPROPRIATE CONVERSATIONS WITH MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX. I also referenced a conversation I had with him about how I was personally taking a look at how I respond to these emails I am sent. I said I wanted to be sure I was not encouraging this behaviour with the way that I responded to them. Still tried to say it was no different. I asked him how he would feeel if I had started a similar conversation with another man.. "envisioning " them in a spandex thing as my b*%#h. He said he would trust that it was only a joke.... He doesn't seem to be upset by the way these men I work with are behaving towards me.


That tactic doesn't work. Cognitive dissonance won't allow them to see things from your perspective at the time they're doing bad things. You need to consider the very real possibility that he is nearly incapable of fully rational thought in regard to this behaviour.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Oh btw, never again reveal how you know what you know. Ironic, but you are fighting for your marriage, you need every advantage you can get. Try to think about the conversations you want to have. Try to frame things in such a way that you get him to admit what you already know, but without letting him know what you know, or how you know it. If you are good at this, you can get more info out of him, and protect your sources at the same time. You will need your sources of info to accurately verify what he says or does for a while.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

My gut is saying that his actions/words that I am supposed to know about present a very different picture than the ones i am NOT supposed to know about. This ia a problem in my eyes andone I cannot ignore. It makes no sense to me logically that he behaves SO differnetly in these other environments unless he hides it from me. There would be no need to hide acceptable behaviour from me. therefore, it seems this behaviour would in most people's eyes be deemed as unnacceptable oand on some level, he knows it. He wasn't "trying" to hide it from me, he just never said he was doing these things.. and of course, I had no idea these things were going on. 
The ultimatum I have issued is that he needs to stop sending emails like that to all other women - joking or not. He needs to curb his enthusiasm for this kind of talk with the guys, stop hanging around with cheaters, and see that he needs to take action regarding our marital issues. I cannot seem to get him to wholeheartedly agree that it was wrong no matter how I present it because he obviously has a strong convinction in his actions and feels he did no wrong. I really struggle with this aspect of things. As SandandAngry says, I may never be able to make him see he was acting innapropriately.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

He tried to call me last night from the hotel and I happened to be on the phone with my mother. He asked me who I had been talking to so late at night. I lied and said a counselor... I hate to lie about things to him but you are all right in that the only way I can verfiy he is being honest is to be able to monitor things myself as it seems obvious he is deliberately now deleting emails and bbm conversations. When I check now, all that are left are perfectly acceptable communications ... Why would he have to delete these things right after he sends them if they aren't incriminating somehow? He obviously know I am still checking up on him... just trying to decide on the cell phone monitor or the VAR.... Little worried about installation of the cell phone spyware on his work phone. I worry I will have trouble getting enough time to install the software....


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Not gently, not trying to use reason, you probably won't get him to admit he is wrong. It would harm his self image. You need to appear strong. Facts are strong, if you can get them. So is bold action. You have enough reasonable suspicion to take extremish action, if you have the guts. I fear you don't though, and you'd wind up worse off than before. So do what you need to gather facts, and think hard about how to use them.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

That's what a keylooger is for on the computer. Anything he types is recorded and he can delete anything he wants and still be caught.

Is he tech savy? An easy thing to do, that people forget, is the sent email folder. Go into settings, if you still have access and turn it on. Even if he catches it you'll see a few of the email messages until you can install a keylogger on the computer. 

Also, if you dig around, depending on the email service, you can activate auto-cc that will forward any message to another email account. This is hard to explain and I have only made it work on "google" or Cox IIRC.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

superspy said:


> It's like he's two different people... It just doesn't add up to me or make any sense.... He wasn't sarcastic in his questioning about what I suspected but it still bothers me that he asked those specific questions.... He had deleted all of the incoming msgs about the S & m thing but forgot to get rid of his sent items... He clued into that while we were talking and was like "wow, you even went in my deleted items to look at that..." He got really upset when he looked n MY computer and saw I had sent the email to a close friend to ask her opinion... Stood my ground and said if it wasn't innaparopriate as he said, then why would you care that she saw it???? He dodged around that one...


I know you are shocked at your husbands behavior, but believe me, given the proper work atmosphere some female co-workers can get pretty raunchy, and it never go's any farther than that. I had an all female work crew....Some were always ladies, some, not so much...I treated them all like professionals...But other guys got just as raunchy as the gals...Most of the time it went absolutely nowhere outside the workplace...Oddly it was the ones who got down with the raunch the most that were the first to complain to HR about sexual harassment......

So don't think your man is automaticaly guilty...He sounds to me more like an eternally adolescent jerk..

Tell him to go transparent with his phone and emails, install a keylogger, and tell him to GROW UP.....This crap really gets boring to the people who have to put up with it at work too...


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

He has a laptop provided by his workplace and so I am a little hesitsant to put spyware on it. He is always on the BB tho. He send msgs from his personal account and work email as wel as chatting on the bbm. This is where it seems most of his time is spent and activity happens. I have checked the sent items as he has his work email account set up to immediately empty the trash after he has deleted his emails. I found the last bit of emails in the sent items folder. He is concerned with how this looks to others. He is embarassed that a friend of mine has seen the email and that I have been speaking to my mom about my feelings. If the emails were issolated and we had a sex life, I likely would still be a bit shocked to see that stuff. Frankly, if we were closer and more intimate and actually had a sex life, I would not even be on this board.... It's all of these things put together that just paints a picture that causes me some concern that he is heading down the road to a physical affair. He says if I want to see his emails, all I have to do is ASK. this of course lets him know I will be looking, and goves him time to erase any unprofessional emails or msgs so he appers not to be engaging in this behaviour. I know guys will be guys.. I deal with it every day at work but I also know that I have been propositioned by multiple married men to be more than just friends. Having this personal perspective and seeing and hearing of so much of it going on , sends up red flags as this is exactly the kind of emailing that these men tried to get ME to participate in.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

Got a VAR and used it once so far. Recorded a ton of sappy, sad love songs that he just recently added to his ipod. Guess he is feelig a little remorseful about his actions or perhaps guilty about something? Seems a bit "down" and brought home flowers that same day. Says he now sees how innapropriate the emails were. Things have been peachy keen since.... he's very affectionate, helpful and more receptive to being sexually intimate. I am very appreciateive of his efforts, however, I am not yet ready to forgive and forget so easily. I am looking at getttig a GPS logger to verify he is where he says he is when he says he will be there. Especially after his last business trip out of town with his rowdy co-workers. I discovered he went to a bar and then a strip club the one night. He made no mention of this to me at all when recounting his trip. I don't have an issue with where he went so much as that he didn't tell me about it. I'm just going to quietly keep verifying the facts and not tip my hand. Thanks for the advice and support!


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## Mary1214 (Mar 19, 2013)

Sounds exactly like my husband. He sends text messages to his female coworkers that definitely cross a boundary. There was one that told a girl to "duck tape her tits together" for he profile pic on some dating website. Another message to a guy friend saying he was worried that another coworker thought she was going to sleep with him while out of town on business. It's been a while and I cant remember specifics at the time, but his response was the same. He was outraged that I would look through his things. He locked his phone and changed all of his passwords (even the ones to our shared phone and credit card accounts). He says he is doing this to protect our relationship so that I don't read into, or take things he says out of context. It's just an excuse. These guys need their egos stroked by whoever will stroke it. He is just apologizing to appease you, but now will be more smart about not getting caught. Maybe their intentions aren't to cheat, but if they tell the right woman want she wants to hear, she may encourage him to break boundaries he never intended. BTW, my husband cheated on me when we were dating and denied, denied, denied. He made me feel like I was crazy for looking and had some lame excuse for everything. One day he accidentally emailed me a pic of him with his tongue down another girls throat. Trust your gut and keep watching. When he feels like you trust him again he will eventually let down his guard and you will have the opportunity to see what he is up to again.


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## superspy (Mar 4, 2013)

Mary:

I was just so upset when I found the emails and all my friends were telling me "he would never cheat on you!" and "you need to talk to him about this" that I ended up tipping my hand.... Even the counsellor I am going to says "you need to turn TO your spouse, not away from him". Well, not if he's lying and covering things up! Maybe he isn't cheating but I need verification of it and I am not entirely sure he is being completely honest with me. So sad to say that but it's how I feel. My heart wants to believe he isn't but my head says there is a possibility he has or will if this behaviour keeps up. I have started keeping a log of things I discover with dates, places, names and phone numbers etc... I regularly check his cell phone when I can access it and look at his work and personal emails. He deletes many of the incoming msgs and empties his work email trash immediately. I have only managed to find evidence in his sent items folder which he forgot to delete. He clued in that I found the emails in either the sent or trash folder tho. Everyone says to trust my gut so I am going to take your advice to heart and keep watching and waiting. Everything I've read and heard indicates that eventually he will slip up and I will catch him. At this point , all I KNOW and have PROOF of is that he sent some pretty innapropriate emails to female coworkers and they responded back almost as flirtatiously in some. At least one of them is unmarried and he talked about setting her up with a friend of his previously. I made a comment about what I thought of her replies to his emails and he defended her, saying "she's not like that". I did bring up the fact that maybe SHE thinks he is coming on to her???? DUH!!!!! I sure as hell would if a guy sent that to me! There are only a few that I found but he instigated the conversations with all of them. 

I actually caught him going into my phone as he has always known my passwords... I didnt say a word about it....Maybe my personal stories of what I have encountered with other men have made him a little nervous about me straying... Maybe that's "gaslighting? Turning it around and saying how does he know I am not having an affair.... It would be rather ironic to see him squirm a bit and feel as I do....evil laugh... 

I've taken my notes on his plans for tonight - where he is dining, with whom... written down the time... He used to call me before he knew I waould be going to bed but lately he just calls early in the evening and then again in the morning. Maybe I will call the hotel room late tonight to establish a timeline to compare to what he tells me tomorrow.....


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Superspy you can often tell a person's character by the people he chooses to associate with. His choice of friends doesn't bode well. People who cover for someone else's indiscretions are owed cover in return. 

Have you spoken to any of your husbands friends' spouses? It might be worthwhile to touch base and compare notes.


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## Mary1214 (Mar 19, 2013)

When your husband says things like "you were not meant to see that" when it comes to completely inappropriate interaction (which mine has done many times), I think it sends a message that damages the relationship. It blatantly says that he doesn't want you to know how he acts when you aren't around. Mine has specifically said that didn't share things with me because he knew they would upset me. Unfortunately, when someone lies to you it threatens the relationship and is hurtful. This is the most confusing thing of all because I'm sure most married people have said things to other people that they would not want their spouse to know. The problem is that you know the things he doesn't want you to see are of a sexual nature involving other women. He should not be surprised that this causes you to question his motives.

If he is telling you that he understands that what he did is inappropriate, he should be willing to do whatever it takes to get your trust back. Instead, the fact that he keeps deleting emails and texts is doing the exact opposite. He is setting himself up so that he can keep on acting the way he always acted and never get caught. 

I put myself in my husbands shoes and think about what I would do if he ever expressed concern over my faithfulness. I would do whatever it took to make him feel comfortable and like he can trust me. I would have no problem giving him access to anything of mine that he needed to see in order to feel better. I wonder if this is the difference between a cheater and a non-cheater, or a man and a woman. 

I am in your situation where I don't have any proof of cheating at the moment. I have come to face the reality he compartmentalizes his life. He acts one way around me and another around his friends, and even another way around his coworkers. I have chosen to make my biggest battle with him about being transparent and honest with each other. I have told him many times that I am so unhappy with the current situation. He literally told me that "he f-ing lied, so I should get the f over it" (long story, wrote about it in my own post). I am trying to mentally prepare because in the next few months I am going to tell him that if he is going to keep all of his accounts locked up and his phone and email private, I am going leave.

I feel horrible for you, because I know this emotional roller-coaster you are on must be devastating. I'm sure that having children with a man makes it a whole new ball game. Obviously I'm slightly jaded now, but I do believe in doing everything you can to save your marriage. Some people just need a wake up call, and once they get it they can see things in a whole new light and the relationship can grow. If your husband cares about you, he will be willing to compromise and/or sacrifice and do whatever it takes to rebuild your relationship. If he doesn't, then you have your answer. Sorry I've been rambling, but I do see a few similarities. My feelings change from second to second, so I totally empathize with the confusion that comes along with these types of situations. It would be nice to have some sort of proof either way, but I guess it doesn't always happen that way.


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## Mary1214 (Mar 19, 2013)

walkonmars:
Oh, definitely! Same thing as superspy's husband to the T. We have moved a few times in the past few years, so all of my husbands friends are old college buddies that live out of state. He doesn't see them too ofter, except for annual man-child trips, but it is the same scenario. I have found out through looking at his texts that every single one of his good friends has cheated on their wives (most of them have done it on those trips). The things my husband says to these guys about other women is degrading and overtly sexual. I know that my husband can be crude, but it's totally different with his friends. Since our last move, he made friends with a guy and his girlfriend (45 y/o guy; 23 y/0 gf) that quickly became mutual friends. However, after knowing them for a while, my husband would grab her ass while he was hugging her hello. He knew everyone saw it and did it to try to be funny. When I brought it up I was being "too sensitive". Then we were all drinking and he passed out with her on the couch with their bare feet intertwined on the foot stool. Once again, I brought that up and he told me that I just don't get that thats how friends act. Ohhhh....excuse me for being so dumb. Oh, lets not forget about the pic where he was grabbing a girls boobs...once again, another funny joke that I overreacted to. 

You are right about the friends thing. Everyone wants to believe the best about their spouse, especially when your spouse makes you feel like you are numero uno and the apple of their eye, but then when they are around their friends, they are like, my wife? who?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Mary1214 said:


> The things my husband says to these guys about other women is degrading and overtly sexual. I know that my husband can be crude, but it's totally different with his friends.


 Guys can be dumb on this point. If this was the only flag I'd say forget it. Unless, of course, the crudeness was directed at you in any way.



> Since our last move, he made friends with a guy and his girlfriend (45 y/o guy; 23 y/0 gf) that quickly became mutual friends. However, after knowing them for a while, my husband would grab her ass while he was hugging her hello. He knew everyone saw it and did it to try to be funny. When I brought it up I was being "too sensitive". Then we were all drinking and he passed out with her on the couch with their bare feet intertwined on the foot stool. Once again, I brought that up and he told me that I just don't get that thats how friends act. Ohhhh....excuse me for being so dumb. Oh, lets not forget about the pic where he was grabbing a girls boobs...once again, another funny joke that I overreacted to.


Time to set hard boundaries, all of this is disrespectful and stupid. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the 23 year old is your husband's GF and his friend is covering for him. Grabbing her butt sounds like they were having a joke at your expense. 

Yes, I USED to have friends like that, but I grew up. You make friends with people that don't make your spouse uncomfortable and gender doesn't matter.


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## csoleil09 (Jan 19, 2013)

OMG! Why man are so stupid and us woman love them so much!!!! Do you have access to his cell phone at night when he's sleeping? There is a terrific spyware program call :Spybubble Go on there website and then they explain to you how to do to activate it on the target cell phone and then can see on there website every calls, email and location. This is a very neat thing and you will know pretty quick if you are getting nuts or not so usually 
Gut feeling is the best...


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