# Too empathic???



## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

My husband cheated on me with several people. He is an alcoholic and he is also on the autistic spectrum. My question is: Does anyone ever feel bad for the cheater, because you know if you leave he will go completely downhill? When we married 25 years ago I did say the part "in sickness and in health".


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Sweet Ginger said:


> Does anyone ever feel bad for the cheater, because you know if you leave he will go completely downhill?


No. Do you think he feels bad for you when he screws other women?



Sweet Ginger said:


> When we married 25 years ago I did say the part "in sickness and in health".


And he promised to "Love, honor and cherish" you...

What's your point? The marriage contract is null and void now.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Infidelity is not a sickness. 

I'm guessing that he also vowed to forsake all others for you.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think at some point the balance will tip for you such that your sense of decency and empathy is outweighed by pride, self-respect, and self-preservation.

When we say in 'sickness and in health,' we don't naturally mean heartbreaking betrayals perhaps engendered in some way by non-organic afflictions like alcoholism.

I remember your story, Sweet Ginger. Are you saying he is diagnosed with Aspergers?

When you've had enough, when that balance tips, you'll be OK leaving him to his own fate, I think.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

SweetGinger,

What have you done to recover, confront the OW, expose them, have your WH take a polygraph?

Tamat


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Sweet Ginger said:


> My husband cheated on me with several people. He is an alcoholic and he is also on the autistic spectrum. My question is: Does anyone ever feel bad for the cheater, because you know if you leave he will go completely downhill? When we married 25 years ago I did say the part "in sickness and in health".


If you want us to tell you that it is ok NOT to feel bad for the cheater and that it IS ok to leave the marriage, we can can will tell you that.

So what have you been up to since your last thread start? Are you happier today, same as 2015, or less happy?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Sweet Ginger said:


> My husband cheated on me with several people. He is an alcoholic and he is also on the autistic spectrum. My question is: Does anyone ever feel bad for the cheater, because you know if you leave he will go completely downhill? When we married 25 years ago I did say the part "in sickness and in health".


Your assumption is that you are focused on his pain. You might well be, but you are intensely focused on how you do not believe you can be happy unless he is a certain way, in both his actions and his behaviour.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Ginger, I can relate to your question. I knew that something had gone seriously wrong with my husband two years before he cheated on me. He started to withdraw, have paranoia . . . he'd had a particularly difficult couple of years with some health issues, and a doctor who damaged h's penis. 

There is some disorder in his family; his mother was diagnosed with depression years ago, his sister was diagnosed as bi polar about 4 years ago, and he has since been diagnosed as Borderline Personality disorder, which explains why he kept bouncing back and forth to me and from me. One of the best books on BPD is "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me." I always knew my h could be a chameleon and adopt characteristics of wherever he lived. In Texas, he dressed like a cowboy, and in other places he adopted the "uniform," after 20 years of moving around with the military. 

I don't think it absolves him of his behavior and his choices, but I DO have empathy for him on several levels. His BPD was managed and under stress all the stuff comes out. He is a textbook case. It is a relief, somewhat, to know my instincts were right and perhaps we were both in over our heads when he was having his medical issues; but it makes me very sad, because unless had accepts and deals with his condition, he will continue to behave in a way that causes him and lots of other people pain and suffering. It won't cause me any, since I'm not part of his life anymore, other than to wonder what happened 8 years ago that changed him from the way he'd been the previous 12. But I can't do anything about it; I just pray for his wellbeing and that someday he finds happiness before he dies. 

I am sorry that he cheated on me, and took so long and spent so much time disengaging from me when he was going to anyway. The BPD diagnosis explained a lot, because I knew there was something there that he was running from and not confronting. 

I have also worked for a boss with Asperger's, whose son also had it, and I work with a student now who is autistic but very high performing, at a certain level. This student is frustrating, though, because he is indecisive, but my biggest issue with him is, he'll come in and tell me we haven't loaded our courses to the enrollment system. When I point out that they are there, he said, well, I just wanted to come in and let you know they weren't there and I'm glad you fixed it. He does this with things all the time. It never occurs to him that he's not using the equipment or the online application appropriately; it's always because someone else hasn't done something right. 

When someone cheats, they're happy for the left-behind spouse to think they are the ones who didn't do something right.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Alcoholism and Autism.

That's a nasty combination.

Is he in AA? Or some other therapy?


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello B Dad,

I do know that he doesn't feel any empathy for me when he cheats. He is very narcissistic and is always worried about what's in it for him.
Thank you for mentioning that he didn't honor his vows, so I shouldn't have to either.


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Workin,

You are right infidelity is not an illness. But wouldn't you consider alcoholism and being on the spectrum an illness?


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Dear A. Dame,

I remember your name also. And yes he and his brother were both diagnosed with aspergers. Apparently now it is being on the autism spectrum.

I am probably reaching that tipping point. I think I have put it off because I was wanting my son to graduate from college with an electrical engineering degree and he will do that this May. I didn't want anything to get in the way of him reaching his goal. And my two daughters are at the age where they are getting their wings to leave the nest. 
My parents are at the age where they are needing help now. My dad has dementia and my mom has lots of doctor appointments. This has recently got me thinking that when I reach this stage, I really don't want to be with someone that has no empathy.

I really appreciate hearing the responses. They get me back on track. I am so use to him minimizing everything he has done.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi,

I understand the issues that cause a person to act out. Yes his alcoholism and autism are real. But at this point so what? Seriously so what? 

Marriage is not a suicide pact. In the late fifties or early 60s the Vatican issued a position paper about what is a healthy marriage. Here are two: 

Other then necessary biological roles there are no gender roles in a marriage. This includes childcare. 

A marriage must include mutual self growth of both spouses and the marriage. All marriages must be allowed to evolve to meet the changing conditions of both spouses lives. 

So how have you grown with his help? How has the marriage improved due to his efforts?


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Tam,

I am trying to improve myself and get myself mentally and physically ready to make a move. I am still on antidepressants ever since I found out about the affairs. It is helping still being on them dealing with my aging parents. I did confront the other woman that worked with him. And before it is all said and done I would like him to take a polygraph.


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Blue,

Thanks for posting. I do feel happier as time goes on. Of couse being with my children makes me happy. One of my motto's that I have been practacing is that any of my women friends, sisters or cousins that ask me to go away with them I do. I have done some fun things like watching bull riders, going to New Orleans and staying on campus at Tulane, and just playing the game, "Cards against Humanity".


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Mr,

Thanks for posting. You have a very good point.


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## becareful (Jan 28, 2016)

The thing about many wayward husbands like yours is if you went out and cheated on him, he would be so "devastated," which is extremely hypocritical and ironic given his selfish behaviors (not that I encourage revenge affairs, I don't).


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Teddie,
Thanks for your response. Our MC said she thought my husband had Borderline Personallity Disorder. Although he was never officially diagnosed with it. And his brother was actually diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. Thanks for the name of the book. I will get it and read it.

What was the final straw that made you leave?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Sickness and health really means a broken leg, cancer, etc. It doesn't mean inflicting marital harm to you in the form of risking YOUR mental and physical health with their cheating. Think STD exposure, emotional distress.


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Matt,

Thanks for posting. He has been going to AA for 2 plus years. When I recently asked him what step he was working on, he said he hasn't started yet. I believe this is a social club for him. Since he goes once a week and hasn't started his steps.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sweet Ginger said:


> Hello Matt,
> 
> Thanks for posting. He has been going to AA for 2 plus years. When I recently asked him what step he was working on, he said he hasn't started yet. I believe this is a social club for him. Since he goes once a week and hasn't started his steps.


My wife is a High Functioning Asperger's who had an affair (years ago) so I know where you are coming from, to some extent.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Sweet Ginger said:


> Hello Teddie,
> Thanks for your response. Our MC said she thought my husband had Borderline Personallity Disorder. Although he was never officially diagnosed with it. And his brother was actually diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. Thanks for the name of the book. I will get it and read it.
> 
> What was the final straw that made you leave?


I didn't really leave. I just lived in my house and he showed up, on a pattern, often in the summer for a month, or at various times for a week or ten days. I just let him decide to leave; I wasn't going to do it for him. BPD's take forever to disengage and I was kind of studying him to see if he was going to get better or if this last medical issue had knocked him off his rocker for good. 

He filed for divorce three times, but cancelled/dismissed the first two attempts, but went through with it the third time when the OW's family confronted him for leaving and returning, coming and going. He couldn't break it off with her or with me. He's a miserable git now; he acted out of a sense of owing her something because he'd made promises and lied about our marriage. 

But ironically the thing that made it hard for him to decide was not just the BPD, but the sense of obligation he felt on both sides and the misery he saw with OW in the midst of alcoholic drama (yet he decided that was better than peace and quiet and time spent with his kids, if he was with me). It's a long story, and she manipulated him, using her little boy and having them get attached. 

But he was just acting in ways I couldn't fathom, and he finally left. As miserable as he is, he'll blame her family for forcing his hand, while I wasn't going to make the decision for him and later hear from his family what a victim he thought he was. He didn't live with me for much of the last 8 years anyway, and divorce was a distraction with all I had going, like two jobs and a graduate degree. 

But I am glad he's gone and I enjoy the peace and quiet and he's the one left living in hell. But he chose it. Had I gotten a belly full or gotten to the point where I couldn't live with it anymore I would have bounced, but he was sort of a lab observation and I wanted to see if his condition would deteriorate or if he would come up for air. I took my vows seriously, too, I guess, and thought of him as sick, which he is. He even sat on the couch after surgery, major surgery from which he almost died, and said he was f***ed up. But he doesn't want to do anything about it. His BPD mother made him feel like a failure his whole life, but he likes the feeling, so who am I to rob him of it?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@SweetGinger, 

I think there is a difference between "in mental sickness" where both you and the ill person are pursuing treatment, going to appointments, taking medications, and working a plan to "get better".... and "in mental sickness" where the ill person uses the mental illness as their justification to continue doing wrong and harming those they claim to love. 

In the first instance, the mentally ill person is being personally responsible and doing the things they need to do in order to protect themselves, their marriage and their family from their mental illness. That person is doing their best and just needs time and care to come closer to mental health. 

In the second instance, the mentally ill person has no interest in stopping their wrongdoing and in fact they use their illness as the reason why they have to continue! The leave themselves, their marriage and their family vulnerable to the hurt caused by their mental illness. That person is blameshifting and gaslighting and will not recover or come closer to mental health. 

In the first instance, I could see a decision to "wait and see" and give them a chance to recover. 

In the second instance, I would say legally protect yourself and your family FROM the ill person, because they won't! It may be time to let go.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

SG, I also took my vows very seriously and when my former husband cheated around 15 years into our marriage (that was the first time I caught him although in retrospect it may not have really been the first time) I thought about divorce but stayed because I had a child to consider and I didn't want him growing up in a broken family. (I regret that decision now and so does my child.) Fast-forward several decades and I caught him again. This time I got out and didn't listen to his pleas. I just wanted to be free of his drama. 

Users don't hesitate to manipulate empathetic people. I don't consider myself especially empathetic but I still was much easier to manipulate than I thought because I wanted to keep my family together. My former husband never wanted a divorce -- he just wanted to cheat whenever he felt like it. Some people are like that. They want it all. 

I don't recommend staying with a serial cheater.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Ginger, Affaircare really hit it on the head. I didn't throw h out after he confessed to infidelity because he also confessed to be confused and lost, and he was showing signs of dementia. Our doctor put him on antidepressants and diagnosed him as paranoid. But then he stopped working on his health and his issues, and the last year he started again, after having a heart attack. It was too late for us at that point because he was too invested in life with OW.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes, a better person can forgive a what....[one with less potential]. I believe this is the case with your WH and I can see you justifying it, this way.A better person [Saintly] can forgive a sinner Intellectually easier than Emotionally. 

If the you have little emotional-equity built up in this marriage partner then it is even easier to forgive...rug sweep.

You married him and learned that he has serious mental issues. You strike me as a forgiving soul, level-headed, not overly dependent. 

Having said that, as per the Pink Panther I would gracefully head for the exit [stage-left] door. 

Take your time, get your affairs ready...budget/finances, housing; contact an attorney, find out your options, then execute the plan smartly. You owe this to yourself and to those wonderful children.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sweet Ginger said:


> My husband cheated on me with several people. He is an alcoholic and he is also on the autistic spectrum. My question is: Does anyone ever feel bad for the cheater, because you know if you leave he will go completely downhill? When we married 25 years ago I did say the part "in sickness and in health".


Read Co-dependent no more by Melodie Beattie. The fact that you are asking these questions suggests to me you are codependent. 

You did not make your AH drink, yet you do the damage control, 'manage' his bouts of alcoholism, worry about him, etc. You married him yes 'for better or worse' but not to the extent you too become sick. And because you are immersed in his world of alcoholism, you too are sick and as they say are most likely a 'codie.' 

Alcoholism destroys a marriage relationship, any relationship you have now is only a shell of a marriage. This is not to say there are no other problems in the marriage or that your behaviour does not contribute.

This man has also cheated on you, you owe him absolutely nothing. From a Christian perspective you can leave him for adultery. 

In fact it may be the best thing you do for him to leave him to his own devices for when they hit rock bottom many of them decided to do something about it. It appears by staying with him, you are in fact enabling him. 

I am not saying it is an easy decision, I am in the same place myself. But you must give yourself permission to think about saving yourself, alcoholism does not get better and if he is not in a program it is a slow downhill descent to utter destruction, you with him.

I would suggest you go to Al-Anon and join online forums such as SoberRecovery to get some more insight.

Keep posting


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Sweet Ginger said:


> Hello Mr,
> 
> Thanks for posting. You have a very good point.


That is kind, as it came out much harsher than I expected. What I meant is that it is not your empathy that causes your pain, but your sense of loss and need. That you can she he is suffering too means you cannot make it a simple case of him being the baddie. 

Co-dependent is an accusation thrown round. In reality, most healthy relationships have some co-dependence. Otherwise, if one spouse announced they had found someone better, the other would be delighted for them. When the other has an unhealthy mindset and you cannot separate your mind from their emotions, it becomes very painful.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sweet Ginger said:


> Hello Matt,
> 
> Thanks for posting. He has been going to AA for 2 plus years. When I recently asked him what step he was working on, he said he hasn't started yet. I believe this is a social club for him. Since he goes once a week and hasn't started his steps.


Has he had any relapses, is he dry? If he hasn't done any of the steps sounds to me he isnt working the program and doesn't really want to do the hard work necessary to make amends to those he has hurt, to actually grow and help the marriage. He sounds selfish and entitled and probably is both. if he has had the affairs when sober then that tells you all you need to know.

Please start getting your ducks in a row and sorting out your finances, seeking a lawyer and get this "sickness' out of your life. It may be the best thing you have ever done for him. You may start with a physical separation to begin with, let him see you are not there to enable him anymore.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If your WH hasn't changed, then he is still a man who is very self-centered and would rather gaslight you than tell you the truth to ease your pain. I remember that he had an STD and lied incessantly.

If none of this has changed, then the man has no remorse. Has it changed? I hope for your sake that he has at least given you the peace of some truth.

If you stick around here, I think we will do our best to help you develop the strength you need to detach and find a better life for yourself. Alcoholism and Aspergers are afflictions that he can manage without you, in my opinion.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Sweet Ginger said:


> Hello Workin,
> 
> You are right infidelity is not an illness. But wouldn't you consider alcoholism and being on the spectrum an illness?


I do consider alcoholism to be an illness.

However, you can be an alcoholic and not cheat on your spouse. Alcoholism does not force someone to cheat.

Best
WD


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

OP,

I can only offer this, as a fellow Ginger (and anecdotally we have more spectrum diagnoses than others) and, ahem, a drinker, I firmly disagree. I wholeheartedly agree with loving the sinner but hating the sin, but there is a difference between and explanation and an excuse.

Boo boo, he's in the spectrum, so am I, but only due to reclassification. I'm a Ritalin kid, and I pretended to take that **** for years, I chase highs, I like attention - good or bad. That's the explanation, but it's no damned excuse. If anything I assume he is of high intellect, he knew what he was doing all along. He made bad choices and knew it and did it anyway. 

Sure he may have been predisposed, but he did it, willfully. 

He needs to man up and make amends, and that's his burden. Not yours, by all means feel empathy for him, but don't assume the responsibility. It requires effort for me to focus and be the best me. (Oh look, a squirrel!) but I do, and i out think most people I come across. I don't think of it as a hinderance but an extra special ability, in my mind I juggle 390 balls. If I drop 50 that still about 300 more in the air than most people. I work with what I have, and I don't make excuses.

By all means help if you can, but don't bear his cross. He made it, he can shoulder the burden if he WANTS TO. 


Cheers,
V(13)



workindad said:


> I do consider alcoholism to be an illness.
> 
> However, you can be an alcoholic and not cheat on your spouse. Alcoholism does not force someone to cheat.
> 
> ...


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello John,

Thank you for posting. I never thought about how he has helped me grow or helped to improve our marriage. As you might have guessed already, he doesn't do either of them. I am very maturnal with my family and just didn't think about him helping in my direction.


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Mich,

Thanks for posting. He in fact did have a HPV wart taken off of himself. So I have already went through being tested.


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Affair,
Thank you for posting.Thanks for making things more clear than how I was thinking. He doesn't think he needs to work on getting better, because he thinks he doesn't a problem that is serious enough that needs to be fixed.


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Open,
Thanks for sharing your situation. My husband wants it all too! If an opportunity comes his way he takes it.


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Sun,

Thanks for posting. I appreciate your sensible advice. I have a vague exit plan. I just need to fine tune it.


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Aine,

Thank you for posting and thanks for the mention of the book. I will check it out. I probably am an enabler with his drinking. He does go to AA meetings, but hasn't started any of the steps. He admits it is more of a social event for himself.


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello Aine,

He still very much drinks. And he was sober while cheating. I guess that is a lot worse?


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello A. Dame,

He did have an HPV wart removed from himself. As far as changing, the drinking is still going strong, and he is either getting better about covering up his cheating, because I haven't uncovered anything lately.

I do not have piece of mind, because once he reached a certain point of telling me things he won't tell me anymore. Before it is said and done I want to do a surprise polygraph on him.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The exit plan is good. Keep firming it up. You seem like a very nice, smart woman who doesn't deserve the life he wants you to live with him.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Openminded said:


> ...
> Users don't hesitate to manipulate empathetic people.
> ...


Aint that the truth!!!


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

Sweet Ginger said:


> My husband cheated on me with several people. He is an alcoholic and he is also on the autistic spectrum. My question is: Does anyone ever feel bad for the cheater, because you know if you leave he will go completely downhill? When we married 25 years ago I did say the part "in sickness and in health".


It is OK to feel bad for the cheater to the extent that one would feel bad for anyone making a foolish and self destructive decision. I feel bad for the drug abuser that OD's. I don't pity him because he made that choice and I actually feel more badly for his family, the people who have to bury him at such a premature age. I feel bad for the loss of potential...

But no, I wouldn't let empathy make me stay-that is simply emotional blackmail. That creates hatred; hatred for the empathetic spouse because that person only stayed because of a threat and hatred for the cheater for being cruel and manipulative-on top of the cheating. Your husband needs the Big Book and individual therapy. This sounds like a hot mess you are going to have a time getting yourself out of. We are here for you!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

WhyMe66 said:


> It is OK to feel bad for the cheater to the extent that one would feel bad for anyone making a foolish and self destructive decision. I feel bad for the drug abuser that OD's. I don't pity him because he made that choice and I actually feel more badly for his family, the people who have to bury him at such a premature age. I feel bad for the loss of potential...
> 
> But no, I wouldn't let empathy make me stay-that is simply emotional blackmail. That creates hatred; hatred for the empathetic spouse because that person only stayed because of a threat and hatred for the cheater for being cruel and manipulative-on top of the cheating. Your husband needs the Big Book and individual therapy. This sounds like a hot mess you are going to have a time getting yourself out of. We are here for you!


I finally left my cheating wife once i realized her level of contempt for me was so complete. I finally matched that level of emotion and divorced her.


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## Betrayeduser (Apr 17, 2016)

I'm struggling with that same idea right now. My wife currently only has a part time job and stays home most of the time. If I kick her out based on her infidelity, I know that she won't make much more than minimum wage due to her lack of education, and her living arrangements could be less than ideal for my son. I realize that you reap what you sow, but I have to consider the life my son will have when he's not with me.


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

michzz said:


> I finally left my cheating wife once i realized her level of contempt for me was so complete. I finally matched that level of emotion and divorced her.


Good for you!


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