# To Debt or Not to Debt



## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

If you’ve read any of my previous posts, you may be thinking...here we go again. Well yes, here I am back again with questions regarding the financial quicksand that is my marriage. 

As explained in a previous post, my husband lost his job in May after losing his father in April. We have two young children and live in an area where the cost of living is sort of moderate. I am a teacher and have been for years. I returned to the profession when my daughter started kindergarten so that we could be on the same schedule. At any rate, I cannot afford to pay all of our bills so we are consistently behind or asking for money from my parents. I’ve also emptied one of my retirement accounts and I took a small pay cut this month, which means that we are now out of options. I’ve considered getting another credit card or taking out a loan to stay afloat, but I don’t want to be caught in the trap of more debt. I got a credit card when he lost his job for the first time 3 years ago, but I do not want to go through this again because I’m still paying it off. He has lost a total of 4 jobs and if I take a loan for each time he loses a job, I’ll be in debt forever (especially considering that I have student loan debt). 

My husband is currently a substitute teacher, which is enough to pay his car note, put gas in his car, and buy a meal. With the holiday season coming up, I’m concerned about my ability to keep things normal for our kids if he still hasn’t secured a job. I’m also thinking of getting a second job myself, but if you’ve ever been a teacher, you know that your work doesn’t stop when you leave the school. 

Has anyone been in this situation? Did you use loans or credit cards to help you out when the ends just couldn’t meet?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You need to look at the why of him losing 4 jobs in 3 years. What is going on? 

Why is it your job to float the family financially? Why do you think it's your parents' job to help float you? Why does your husband think it is your job and your parents' job?

You need to have a 'come to Jesus' convo with your husband and mighty quick before having to file for bankruptcy. I would suggest you sell your husband's car to stop having the drain financially. He can take a bus. If all he can contribute to the family's finances is the ability to provide partially for himself, then he ain't doing jack crap for the family. 

And, you're not doing him, yourself or the kids any favor by enabling him. Wake up.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I have been in this situation, but with no children. I cannot even begin to fathom how hard your life is. Is your husband hard core actively looking for full time work? Is he spending 8 hours a day looking for a full time job? If not why not? Is he suffering from a medical or mental condition that prevents him from working full time? If he's not finding anything in his chosen career, he must widen his net. Anything to help. Is he too proud to do that?

Do NOT take out any more credit cards or any loans that is not the answer. Barring any medical/mental condition, the answer is for your husband to get a job, ANY JOB, and do his share of supporting the family. DO NOT GET A SECOND JOB if he's just coasting along with no legit reason.

So what's the deal with him?


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

Thanks for your reply, Blondilocks. There’s certainly a gap between what I know and what I can do about it. I know that it isn’t my parents’ reaponisbility, which is why I’m considering more debt. I also know that our bills shouldn’t be my burden alone. However, I also know that I don’t want our lights to be cut off, I do not want to experience an eviction, and I do not want my children to be hungry. So what do I do aside from talking to him? I do what I have to do. And maybe that isn’t the right approach but I don’t know what is, which is why I’m here. 



Blondilocks said:


> You need to look at the why of him losing 4 jobs in 3 years. What is going on?
> 
> Why is it your job to float the family financially? Why do you think it's your parents' job to help float you? Why does your husband think it is your job and your parents' job?
> 
> ...


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

Thank you for this question and for your understanding. He is not spending 8 hours a day looking for work because he works nearly everyday as a substitute teacher. The problem with subbing is that subs cannot work when the district is on a break, as we are now. As far as medical or mental issues, he definitely has some medical issues but none that would prevent him from working. I do believe that he is depressed but I’m not a physician. I do wonder why he has lost his jobs or is having trouble securing a new job. He has been on several interviews to no success. He either lacks self awareness or just refuses to be clear about what’s going on that has caused him to lose so many jobs. I have no idea. 


lucy999 said:


> I have been in this situation, but with no children. I cannot even begin to fathom how hard your life is. Is your husband hard core actively looking for full time work? Is he spending 8 hours a day looking for a full time job? If not why not? Is he suffering from a medical or mental condition that prevents him from working full time? If he's not finding anything in his chosen career, he must widen his net. Anything to help. Is he too proud to do that?
> 
> Do NOT take out any more credit cards or any loans that is not the answer. Barring any medical/mental condition, the answer is for your husband to get a job, ANY JOB, and do his share of supporting the family. DO NOT GET A SECOND JOB if he's just coasting along with no legit reason.
> 
> So what's the deal with him?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm in the 'no debt' camp. And I've always been this way. I've been both very poor, and I've had money, but regardless, owing is very, very stressful to me.

This is a sincere question - is your husband mentally ill? Or is there a specific reason why he's lost 4 jobs? Cause I have to say, I come from a very dysfunctional family, yet I don't know anyone with your husband's track record. (Just read the other responses about your husband, and this is a huge problem that needs to be solved.)

A lot of what we have in our modern society are things that aren't 'need' based. So, even though it might be painful for a short while (to get you out of debt, and get you on a more freedom-based path), I'd get rid of things (or not buy new things) that aren't needs. This includes cable TV, cell phones, computers, vacations. 

You can move to a less expensive home in a less expensive area. What's your car like? Do you have more than one?

I'm one a few people here who would've completely been behind you if your family had decided not to go to the recent wedding. Cause I've said no in that situation, and I told them why, and I had absolutely no regrets. Were family members pissed off? I couldn't tell you. I didn't ask.

One of the first things my ex-husband did when we separated was to buy all the children cell phones. And then he wanted me to help pay for it. (Nope.) So our household went from a $35 monthly landline to everyone in the house owning a cell phone that was at least $200 each + monthly service payments. 

The majority of people just accept debt as part of life, and may even believe that there's no other way. This is false, and all the expectations of everyone around you can spin out of control and get crazy super fast.

You'll have to sacrifice, and it'll probably hurt your pride, but it's totally doable.

Remember, this is _your_ life.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Well, I'm going to be brutally honest here.

What kind of loser does one have to be when he's at least* 35 years old* and continually has to ask his parents for money to pay the bills because he's not willing to do anymore than the absolute minimum?

What does that tell you, PeachyKeen? It tells you that you need to stop defending your *unmotivated* lazy husband who is happy doing the absolute MINIMUM to squeak by in life while letting his wife pick up his slack for him. Furthermore, when his wife isn't able to pick up all of his slack, rather than getting a second job, the man-child then runs to mommy and daddy to clean up after him. How completely unappealing.

You even defend his pitiful behavior in your last thread, saying "he works _at least _4-5 days a week" as though _*almost* _working the same amount of hours everyone else in the world works means he's pulling his own weight. Pffft. Stop defending him. He's doing the absolute bare MINIMUM while happily sitting back and watching *you* struggle to pay your bills on his minimal hourly job. He's such a damned coward letting his wife clean up after him.

Something tells me once he's home from that oh-so-harrowing 4-5 day a week job of his, he's only too happy to sit back and play video games or watch TV or take a nap while happily letting YOU do the lion's share of all the domestic work and child-rearing on *top* of your full time job. I get the impression this guy does the absolute MINIMUM in all facets of his life. I'm picturing your husband as the lazy slob in National Lampoon's Vacation whose pregnant wife has *3 *part-time jobs and he's told her she can quit one of those jobs after she has the baby. You're kind of in that boat right now - stuck with a man-child who refuses to step up to the plate and instead, is only too happy to let his wife support the family working a full time job and possibly getting a part-time job on top of it.

So. How long are you going to continue raising this man-child like he's one of your kids and just like his mommy, defending his laziness to everyone here (like you've been doing), and willingly taking on all the financial responsibility for him because he *WON'T*? It's like your his mother.

This is what you find appealing? A lazy, ineffectual, unmotivated wimp who would much rather let his wife worry about everything financially and who runs to his mommy and daddy when he needs money?

Do you know how silly you look defending him while admitting you've taken out loan after loan after loan due to *his *inability to keep a damned job and you're now considering a part time job because he's STILL not able to pull his own weight?

Time to take off those rose-colored glasses and see this wimp for who he really IS, not what you want so badly to _think_ he is.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

He needs to work nights, after his "substitute teacher school hours", and every weekend. I used to be a teacher (teacher, not substitute teacher) and when I was starting out, I also worked at a restaurant in the evenings and all weekend. And I didn't even have kids to support.

Once (if) things calm down and he gets a full time job, I'd consider ending this relationship. Do you want this to be your life? You might have a happier life and actually be a *better parent* (happier, less stressed and stable parent and able to provide a solid life situation to your kids) if you are a single mom, rather than in this kind of situation.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My advice would be to tell him what my brother told me when he loaned me money to get out of debt: 

"You (your husband) should be selling items to pay off debt. You should be signing up for Uber or Lyft and should be driving at least 2 hours a day, 8 hours on days you are not working your regular job. If you don't want to Uber, you should be a waiter nights at a restaurant, working at McDonalds or delivering pizza. If you have a skill you can do online, you should be signed up on guru.com or some other platform and bidding for online jobs. Until we are out of debt, I expect you to be working a side job. Period. No more tv, no more recreation, until we are out of debt and have a savings account. If you don't want to be that husband who pulls his own weight to take care of his wife and kids, then you need to go live somewhere else where you are not being a financial and emotional burden to this family."


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

I agree with everything stated here. Im terrified of what divorce could do to my children though. They’ve known is together their whole lives. Our family as a unit is pretty stable and healthy. Despite his obvious selfishness and lack of maturity, we raise our children well together. I’ve pondered sacrificing and staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids. Despite what anyone says, divorce changes things for kids in ways that can have long-term, negative impacts.



Livvie said:


> He needs to work nights, after his "substitute teacher school hours", and every weekend. I used to be a teacher (teacher, not substitute teacher) and when I was starting out, I also worked at a restaurant in the evenings and all weekend. And I didn't even have kids to support.
> 
> Once (if) things calm down and he gets a full time job, I'd consider ending this relationship. Do you want this to be your life? You might have a happier life and actually be a *better parent* (happier, less stressed and stable parent and able to provide a solid life situation to your kids) if you are a single mom, rather than in this kind of situation.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

PeachyKeen said:


> I agree with everything stated here. Im terrified of what divorce could do to my children though. They’ve known us together their whole lives. Our family as a unit is pretty stable and healthy. Despite his obvious selfishness and lack of maturity, we raise our children well together. I’ve pondered sacrificing and staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids. Despite what anyone says, divorce changes things for kids in ways that can have long-term, negative impacts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Adjust your living. What is his car note? Why is he paying for a car note? Holidays will have to be tight, just get used to that. Kids dont remember presents and stuff anyway. We are doing a trip this year, it builds actual memories. The presents don't. 

Go through your finances and trim the fat. More often then not people try to live above their means, or at the threshold so when something like this happens, they are up a creek. If you can't afford a Starbucks in the morning, stop getting them. Learn how to prepare and make inexpensive meals. Stop eating out at lunch, take one to work. If he has a $400/month car payment, trade in and get something inexpensive to get you by. Like a 3 year old hyundai accent or something. It will work just fine for 5 more years easily and be cheap payments, like $100ish/month. Unnecessary creature comforts go out the window entirely. How much is your cable bill? Netflix, Hulu, apple music, Amazon Prime membership... You get the idea. Cut it all out. All you need is internet, find the cheapest option for your area. Cut out the rest. Are you making a car payment too? How much is it? Guessing you can cut that down as well. 

If you aren't willing to take a serious look at your expenses, and make the necessary adjustments, then by all means take out more loans. Ive personally not met many people, if any, who dont have several hundred dollars worth of monthly expenses that aren't necessary to get by.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PeachyKeen said:


> divorce changes things for kids in ways that can have long-term, negative impacts.


So does spending an entire childhood watching your mother bust her butt to keep the family surviving while watching your dad sit on the couch expecting her to do so. 

Guess what kids do when they grow up? They become their parents. So if you maintain the status quo, your kids will either become a User or someone who sacrifices all their adult life because they'll choose a User to marry.

What your kids REALLY need is to see at least one of their parents enacting strong boundaries and consequences and refusing to be walked all over. So they can become THAT person.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Your husband needs to be the one working a second job, not you. I remember my former long term live in boyfriend was never able to hold down a job. He was abusive and had serious authority and anger issues (not saying this is the case with your husband). I remember working my regular full time job and then working a regular part time job proofreading for court reporters. I was exhausted ALL THE TIME and I didn't even have children like you do!!! He was a liability to me. I look back and cannot believe I did all of that FOR YEARS AND YEARS. I hate myself for it. I wasted all of that time and energy. I am so mad and sad at myself.

I realize yours is a horse of a different color because children are involved. But really, Do you want to show your children that this is what a "healthy" relationship looks like? Do you want your sons and/or daughters to be your husband/choose a husband like yours?

That he cannot keep a job is a huge deal. He needs to be a stable provider. Either he's not telling you something, you're super naive, you're in denial, you're not telling us something, or perhaps a mix of all of it. Something doesn't add up.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Livvie said:


> He needs to work nights, after his "substitute teacher school hours", and every weekend. I used to be a teacher (teacher, not substitute teacher) and when I was starting out, I also worked at a restaurant in the evenings and all weekend. And I didn't even have kids to support.
> 
> Once (if) things calm down and he gets a full time job, I'd consider ending this relationship. Do you want this to be your life? You might have a happier life and actually be a *better parent* (happier, less stressed and stable parent and able to provide a solid life situation to your kids) if you are a single mom, rather than in this kind of situation.


This OS good advice.

I am over 50 and lived your life with a husband like your, who knows how to hide his laziness with the appearance of effort.

This will not get better. If you stay with him, this will be your life.

I have 3 years of retirement at 51 because I emptied mine TWICE to keep us afloat. My parents probably helped us to the tune of 50K while we were married.

Please think really hard about the life you want.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I agree with 'TheDude'. If you want to stay married to this guy, there is going to be a cost.

Where do you live? If you own a house, sell it buy one you can afford or rent an apartment or house you can afford
What do you and your husband drive? Sell them and use cheaper transportation
Cancel TV Subscriptions?

Cut as much as possible. Maybe the pain will make your husband realize he needs to acquire (AND KEEP) a full time job.

The answer is certainly not more debt. 

You say you have credit card debt. Why? It is probably the most expensive debt you can have. Get a line of credit, second mortgage, to pay off your credit card debt. If you can't do those things, then you certainly shouldn't take on additional credit card debt.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I, too, emptied my retirement because my husband refused to give up his credit cards, racked up ridiculous debt, and then I let him squander my retirement instead of paying off the debt - twice. You married a moocher. He is who he is. He won't change.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

PeachyKeen said:


> Our family as a unit is pretty stable and healthy. Despite his obvious selfishness and lack of maturity, we raise our children well together.


This is an example of denial. A man who is selfish and immature is not a good role model for his children. Living hand-to-mouth is NOT indicative of stability. Your kids are picking up on the dynamic here and it's not the least bit "healthy." You are stressed out emotionally and maxed out financially. And you don't even know why your husband keeps losing jobs. Employees who exhibit consistency, reliability, and are team players don't lose jobs.

Something is going on with your husband that is causing him to lose jobs. You need to get to the bottom of this. Also, given the situation in which you live, I don't think divorce would be the worst thing to happen when it comes to your kids. SERIOUSLY.


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## SarcasticRed (Feb 21, 2018)

I thought from the first thread this was an acute issue and would pass fairly quickly. However, this isn't a rough 6 months...this is a rough 36+ months. I would do everything possible to avoid more debt and to avoid taking out of retirement. 

Cut your bills to what you can afford on your salary. You likely need to move to an apartment/house you can afford and trade in your husband's car. See if you can lower your loan payment given your husband's employment situation. 

If you continue with your husband, you need to be prepared to be the breadwinner. Or if you end up divorcing, you will need to be able to support yourself and children.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Believe me, your children are observing everything the two of you do and they're likely to grow up and repeat it. There are worse things for children than divorce. 

This is your husband's pattern and he probably will never change it. If you're planning on staying then you'll be dealing with this long-term and you need to simplify your life to the absolute minimum. Going into debt is never the answer -- especially in your case since this isn't the first time he's done this.

You'll have to be the leader in your family and take charge. Starting now. Don't wait on him to straighten things out. Assume he won't. It's too bad it's all on you but it is what it is if you want to stay.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

All of your replies are spot on. I do want to clarify a few things though. 1. I do not pay a car note. I paid my car off a little over two years ago and I do not plan to a buy a new car any time soon. 2. My husband’s car isn’t a luxurious one and it is a necessity. We live in a suburban area where the public transportation isn’t great. We share responsibilities with pickup/drop off from school so we can not afford to lose a car. 3. We do not own a house and can longer afford our apartment without his income. I’ve informed him that the kids and I will be moving out in December if his job situation isn’t fixed. 4. I agree that there’s something wrong here with his job history. I have no idea what transpired at his last 4 places of employment beyond what he has told me. It all seems situational, according to him, but there’s obviously a trend. I’ve even thought about contacting his former coworkers but decided against it because I don’t want it to backfire. 

I’ve decided to not go further into debt. I’m not sure how we’ll make it for the rest of the month but I’ve done my part. Thanks for your replies.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

You are exactly where I was when my kids were in elementary and middle school. And I know what you are going to do. You are going to stay exactly where you are until your kids are out of high school, by which time both of them will disavow marriage, neither of them will have ever been on a date, one of them will be confused about their identity while cutting themselves, and the other will just be really really quiet. Because we all know staying for the kids is the best thing to do for them

Signed, a heartbroken mother who should have left sooner.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

PeachyKeen said:


> I’ve informed him that the kids and I will be moving out in December if his job situation isn’t fixed.


Good for you. What was his reaction?


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

That is excruciatingly heartbreaking to even think about. What was the last straw for you? Did you have a conversation with your kids about your marriage after it was over?

My parents are still together after decades of a tumultuous marriage. My father had, and still has, issues with managing money. He’s always had a job though. In fact, he’s been working at the same place since I was a child. My mom recently admitted to me that loans kept us afloat. What was interesting is that she thought that she was keeping it all from us but that couldn’t be further from the truth. We heard their fights about money, we were trained to ignore the calls of lenders, we were on the receiving end of their stress. We knew. We thought that they should break up but none of us were vocal about it. I’m repeating the financial cycle and I’ve got to get out while my children are young (6 and 3). 



personofinterest said:


> You are exactly where I was when my kids were in elementary and middle school. And I know what you are going to do. You are going to stay exactly where you are until your kids are out of high school, by which time both of them will disavow marriage, neither of them will have ever been on a date, one of them will be confused about their identity while cutting themselves, and the other will just be really really quiet. Because we all know staying for the kids is the best thing to do for them
> 
> Signed, a heartbroken mother who should have left sooner.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

He didn’t react. He was sort of silent and put his hands in his head. He has a habit of wanting to “show and not tell” but that sometimes comes off as indifference. I wonder if things were this way on his job. Perhaps he was read as indifferent and not caring by his managers. 



lucy999 said:


> PeachyKeen said:
> 
> 
> > I’ve informed him that the kids and I will be moving out in December if his job situation isn’t fixed.
> ...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

PeachyKeen said:


> He didn’t react. He was sort of silent and put his hands in his head. He has a habit of wanting to “show and not tell” but that sometimes comes off as indifference. I wonder if things were this way on his job. Perhaps he was read as indifferent and not caring by his managers.


Is this a line you can hold yourself to? Leaving in December? Or will it be all bark and no bite? (Not judging if you can't-just asking.)


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

If you are able to make some inquiries into this it may be quite revealing and worth your effort. If they are honest with you, those former coworkers will shed some light on his inability to keep a job. You have every right to know exactly what you are dealing with in this situation, the livelihood of your family is dependent upon the truth and it sounds as if you believe his version is sketchy. You're worried contacting his colleagues may "backfire". In what way? 

Glad you are choosing to stay out of debt. Digging a deeper hole isn't the answer. Thinking of you and your family  





PeachyKeen said:


> All of your replies are spot on. I do want to clarify a few things though. 1. I do not pay a car note. I paid my car off a little over two years ago and I do not plan to a buy a new car any time soon. 2. My husband’s car isn’t a luxurious one and it is a necessity. We live in a suburban area where the public transportation isn’t great. We share responsibilities with pickup/drop off from school so we can not afford to lose a car. 3. We do not own a house and can longer afford our apartment without his income. I’ve informed him that the kids and I will be moving out in December if his job situation isn’t fixed. *4. I agree that there’s something wrong here with his job history. I have no idea what transpired at his last 4 places of employment beyond what he has told me. It all seems situational, according to him, but there’s obviously a trend. I’ve even thought about contacting his former coworkers but decided against it because I don’t want it to backfire.*
> 
> I’ve decided to not go further into debt. I’m not sure how we’ll make it for the rest of the month but I’ve done my part. Thanks for your replies.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PeachyKeen said:


> My parents are still together after decades of a tumultuous marriage. My father had, and still has, issues with managing money. He’s always had a job though. In fact, he’s been working at the same place since I was a child. My mom recently admitted to me that loans kept us afloat. What was interesting is that she thought that she was keeping it all from us but that couldn’t be further from the truth. We heard their fights about money, we were trained to ignore the calls of lenders, we were on the receiving end of their stress. We knew. We thought that they should break up but none of us were vocal about it. I’m repeating the financial cycle and I’ve got to get out while my children are young (6 and 3).


One, we usually marry a version of one of our parents, or a combination of the two. 

Two, YOU knew. Well, guess what? YOUR kids know, too. 

Teach them there is a better way. 

It will be hard but I bet there are people who will help you move away from this moocher - and I guarantee they have ALL had this conversation about you living with a moocher and they wish you would leave him. BTDT. 

And if they can't, if you're in the US, there are a TON of resources you can go to, to get help to get you back on your feet. Start with United Way, look up your city and county resources. They'll help you find a place you can afford for you and your kids. 

Side benefit? He just MIGHT be forced to grow up and value what he lost and become a decent partner - down the road. But, as usual with 90% of all the women who come here, they never will while the woman continues to prop them up. I call it the Mommy Syndrome. You replaced his mommy so he never has to worry about anything.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

PeachyKeen said:


> My parents are still together after decades of a tumultuous marriage. My father had, and still has, issues with managing money. He’s always had a job though. In fact, he’s been working at the same place since I was a child. My mom recently admitted to me that loans kept us afloat. What was interesting is that she thought that she was keeping it all from us but that couldn’t be further from the truth. We heard their fights about money, we were trained to ignore the calls of lenders, we were on the receiving end of their stress. We knew. We thought that they should break up but none of us were vocal about it. I’m repeating the financial cycle and I’ve got to get out while my children are young (6 and 3).


See? You know firsthand what it feels like living in this kind of home environment! You know that staying "for the kids" is not truly in their best interest. Does it SEEM like it is? Of course it does, on the surface... we all want stability for our kids. But you set them up to repeat the same toxic errors. I'm glad you are seeing this (at least part of it!) while your two are so young, the younger they are, they easier they can adjust. 

I can remember wishing my parents would divorce when I was a kid. They did finally split when I was in high school. I was just sorry it didn't happen sooner.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Can you sign up for any social services, like food stamps and reduced school lunches? That will take some of the financial pressure off. Check out food banks as well to help save on grocery costs. Eat simpler meals to save more on food costs.

Try to cut costs anywhere you can. Hang onto internet since it's required for so many things, but consider dropping to a lower tier. Consider giving up cable and just using an antenna for TV. Go with a cheap pay-as-you-go cell phone instead of monthly plan. Tighten up your budget as much as you can. Going into debt is a short-term solution that can crush you in the long-term.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

There's no reason why he can't get a seasonal part time job now. I was at the mall yesterday and saw signs for temp work. 

If he cared enough about your financial situation, he would be out there this week and getting a PT job at night.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

PeachyKeen said:


> At any rate, I cannot afford to pay all of our bills so we are consistently behind or asking for money from my parents.


Has he asked his parents for money or has it just been you asking your parents? It sounds like your parents have their own financial problems to deal with.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

My husband’s father passed in April. His parents were not together and of the two of them, his father was more financially stable. My husband’s mom just spent over $1000 to bring us to his brother’s wedding two weekends ago (see previous thread), so I can’t imagine that she’ll be willing to give any additional money to our family anytime soon.

I think that my husband is depressed. We graduated from college during the Great Recession and he was never able to recover from not securing his dream job. Of his mom’s 3 children, he’s the youngest and the only one with a degree. While he was in college, his mom and siblings opened several accounts (credit cards, utility bills, phone lines, etc.) in his name believing that he was going to be some big shot when he graduated and could pay it back. After discovering the fraud, he did nothing about it. I didn’t expect him to prosecute his mother, but I did expect him to demand that she repay the outstanding accounts that were impacting his credit. Though she said that she would, she never did and things have gone on between them as if nothing happened. It’s really bizarre, actually.

All of this to say, we can’t rely on his family for anything. I just wish that he would get over himself, get a diagnosis for depression, get medication, and move on with his life. Our lease is up in December. If he doesn’t have it together by then, I’ll be forced to move on without him. This sucks because he’s a great father and handles domestic tasks well (cleaning, washing, folding, etc.).
I have never witnessed divorce up close. My parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc are all still married. My husband’s parents had an ugly divorce when he was a child and it led to a life of pain for him and his siblings. This won’t be easy either way. This sucks.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You can't wait for him to get out of his depression. You CAN, however, tell him you are no longer paying all the bills. You can TEACH him how to be a responsible adult/partner by refusing to carry him. Look at your bills; anything in his name only, immediately stop paying. Tell him you will no longer pay his bills and he can go into forfeiture if he wants, but your responsibility is to the family. If he watches cable, cancel it. If he uses internet, put a lock on it so only you can turn it on. Start making choices the move the family forward; he'll either step up and be a good partner, or he'll end up left behind.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

PeachyKeen said:


> While he was in college, his mom and siblings opened several accounts (credit cards, utility bills, phone lines, etc.) in his name believing that he was going to be some big shot when he graduated and could pay it back. After discovering the fraud, he did nothing about it.


WOW that's a ****ty thing to do!!!! No wonder he's depressed!

I realize it's too late now and you can't unring the bell that his mother paid 1k for the airfare for the wedding but as her son, I would've said no way, you pay me the 1k IN CASH to pay me back for the damage you've done to my credit and no way in hell will I go to my thieving brother's wedding!!! How in the hell can she pay 1k for yall to go to his brother's wedding yet she can't pay your husband back what she stole from him? (Admittedly I dont know how much the family stole from him. ) Sheesh with a family like that who needs enemies??!!! Horrible. My heart does go out to him in that regard.

All that said, it doesn't excuse his inaction to provide for his family. You're right it DOES suck and I'm really sorry. But you do realize, don't you, that your comparison of his ability to do chores around the house to that of putting money in the bank to pay bills is laughable, right? (not being snarky-it's an honest question) I dont think he deserves to be thrown that bone. Your family is in a financial crisis, I don't think its melodramatic to say it and you're grasping at anything, i.e., how he's good at domestic chores. Respectfully, I just don't think that has any place in this conversation.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

I’ve wondered the same thing about her ability to pay for our flights while knowing that she owes him. I’m hoping that the money wasn’t obtained by fraudulent means. She’s taken trips to where we live on several occasions and she paid an absurd amount for airline tickets even after I declined to go. At any rate, there’s so much more to this story about his family. But you’d think it would all be a motivation for him to be better and do better for his own family...nope. 

As for the grasping, you’re right. December is coming either way and when the lease is up and the smoke clears, I’ll probably look back and laugh...or cry...maybe a combo of the two. 


lucy999 said:


> PeachyKeen said:
> 
> 
> > While he was in college, his mom and siblings opened several accounts (credit cards, utility bills, phone lines, etc.) in his name believing that he was going to be some big shot when he graduated and could pay it back. After discovering the fraud, he did nothing about it.
> ...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I think you two need to run a credit bureau check. They are free once a year.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

If you have to get a second job than do it. However, it should come with the expectation that you are both working the same amount and contributing the same at home, so he should also get a second job to keep you guys out of debt. 

As far as you leaving him. Just watch out. If you're the one making the majority of the money you'll be on the hook for child support, so plan that into your expenses. He could also ask for alimony in addition to half of your joint assets.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

You make a great point about child support and alimony. Given the number of times that he’s been unemployed during our 6 year marriage, I’ve wondered if I would be on the hook for alimony or child support. That would be a heck of a twist. 


Bananapeel said:


> If you have to get a second job than do it. However, it should come with the expectation that you are both working the same amount and contributing the same at home, so he should also get a second job to keep you guys out of debt.
> 
> As far as you leaving him. Just watch out. If you're the one making the majority of the money you'll be on the hook for child support, so plan that into your expenses. He could also ask for alimony in addition to half of your joint assets.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

PeachyKeen said:


> Of his mom’s 3 children, he’s the youngest and the only one with a degree.


I'm not surprised he's the youngest, as this seems like classic youngest child behavior. No responsibility for anything, everything works out because someone else (e.g. his parents, siblings, you) does the hard work to solve his problems. He doesn't have any urgency to fix this because he knows it will all "magically" work out like it always does.

But given all that, I'm not recommending divorce. Because of your financial situation, divorce will be very rough in many ways. Instead of divorce, have him be a stay at home dad. This will help with childcare costs and gives you the ability to find a traditional job with a better salary. You stay 100% in charge of the money. He only gets an allowance. And you guys have to live within your salary.

I know you wish he would get a job, but be realistic about the chances of that. I have a feeling you guys are actually losing money with him "working" since his income is so inconsistent. You've had to take a low-paying job so you can have the same schedule as your daughter since he is "working". So instead of fruitlessly trying to get him to make a meaningful financial contribution, have him take over the household and childcare duties so you can support the family. I know it's not a great solution, but it may be the best solution for your situation.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PeachyKeen said:


> You make a great point about child support and alimony. Given the number of times that he’s been unemployed during our 6 year marriage, I’ve wondered if I would be on the hook for alimony or child support. That would be a heck of a twist.


That depends on the state. And most states still favor the woman and don't like making her give a man money to live without a job.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you let him be a SAHD, turn his car in and buy a $1000 junker just to get the kids to and from school. Better yet, make them ride the bus.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

PeachyKeen said:


> If you’ve read any of my previous posts, you may be thinking...here we go again. Well yes, here I am back again with questions regarding the financial quicksand that is my marriage.
> 
> As explained in a previous post, my husband lost his job in May after losing his father in April. We have two young children and live in an area where the cost of living is sort of moderate. I am a teacher and have been for years. I returned to the profession when my daughter started kindergarten so that we could be on the same schedule. At any rate, I cannot afford to pay all of our bills so we are consistently behind or asking for money from my parents. I’ve also emptied one of my retirement accounts and I took a small pay cut this month, which means that we are now out of options. I’ve considered getting another credit card or taking out a loan to stay afloat, but I don’t want to be caught in the trap of more debt. I got a credit card when he lost his job for the first time 3 years ago, but I do not want to go through this again because I’m still paying it off. He has lost a total of 4 jobs and if I take a loan for each time he loses a job, I’ll be in debt forever (especially considering that I have student loan debt).
> 
> ...


Do you have a house? Is there a mortgage?

Being in debt in your 40s might be a bad thing - or a moderate thing. You have to consider how you're going to afford life when you reach the age where it's difficult to keep working. By that I mean when employers don't want you. I'm 60, and my age stops a lot of people from hiring me - employers want long-term relationships! So, how will you plan to achieve financial independence by the time you quit working?

If you have a house, and maybe it's 50% paid off...and your debt is less than one year's income - then it can get paid off with an acceleration plan in, surprisingly, less than a year. An acceleration plan would include selling things you haven't used in six month (except for seasonal things that you actually DO use every time they're in season). I've done it...I had to "amp up" my plan, by selling a 5 year old car and replacing with a 15 year old car.

I'm guessing that he's not really on board the plan to get out of debt, though, so I recommend you seek the Consumer Credit Counseling service in your area. www.consumercredit.com should get you a local facility. I think they're free. They will help you identify how you plan for future money, and can also give you statistics like, for families with your income and number of kids, what is the average debt load, how much is spent monthly on groceries, rent, etc.

My take on what you've written is this:
- He's unlikely to create a stable income.
- Therefore you must plan for that.
- A way to plan for unstable/low income is to spend less and avoid debt.

That's basic reason. The idea here is that you don't have to push on him to gain steady employment, what you'd be doing is saying "It's OK for you to not always be employed. I want to create a spending plan that allows you to do that."


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

I keep thinking of this thread. I'm not you, but if I was I would give him till end of month to get a PT job at night. 

Stop paying any debt that his family put in his name. His family, his problem. He should have resolved that problem instead of being passive. 

Shut off or cancel anything that isn't necessary. Cable tv, get rid of it. Expensive phones, sell them. Go buy cheap ones. He buys lunch at work; no more. He doesn't want to pull his weight then no extra. 

And if he didn't show any sign of improvement by December when your lease is up, I would leave him.

You need to get out of the debt cycle and he is dragging you down. 
It will only get worse so no more credit cards. You will never get out of debt by adding more. 

His non response of you saying you were leaving in Dec is an eye opener. Action not words is so true in this case. Not that hard to go to Target and get a seasonal job.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

I wish that things were as simple as they seem. We do not have cable but we do have an internet bill. This is a necessity as I do a lot of work on my computer at home. There are contracts for both my internet provider and our cell phone providers. We entered the contracts when we were both employed full-time and breaking or adjusting the contracts before the term is over will be costly. I’ve cut back by not getting my hair and nails done, we haven’t taken the kids to the movies in a while, and I’ve also been very lean with our grocery budget. 

The reality is that we need another income. Our rent accounts for nearly half of my monthly take home check. We entered our lease, phone contract, internet contract, etc. as a double income family. How much more should I give up to try to account for this? I’ve even entered a capped electricity plan so that we don’t go above a certain amount. 

I don’t mean to sound defensive but the pressure is a lot for sure. I’ve asked him to reach out to our former pastor to ask for help with groceries and he has yet to do it. Earlier today, I asked him if he considered going directly into retail stores that are hiring to turn in an application rather than throwing them on a virtual resume/application pile. Guess what? He’s been home all day. I’m not sure what else to do in the short term.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Unfortunately, you can't make him be responsible. That's on him. And with a mom and siblings like his, it's no surprise he isn't. People tend to repeat what life was like when they were growing up. When you mentioned the drama regarding the recent wedding, I felt his family was potentially a problem.

So start making a plan for you and the children. You have about two and a half months before the lease is up and that gives you time to think about a path to move forward.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

PeachyKeen said:


> I don’t mean to sound defensive but the pressure is a lot for sure. I’ve asked him to reach out to our former pastor to ask for help with groceries and he has yet to do it. Earlier today, I asked him if he considered going directly into retail stores that are hiring to turn in an application rather than throwing them on a virtual resume/application pile. *Guess what? He’s been home all day.* I’m not sure what else to do in the short term.


I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Openminded said:


> So start making a plan for you and the children. You have about two and a half months before the lease is up and that gives you time to think about a path to move forward.


You can also look into community programs for food and shelter. 

Your church may also be able to help. Do they have a food closet? Your pastor may have suggestions about housing.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

It sounds like your budget is pretty lean already and there's not much you can trim. Your lease is up in December, so you can move into a cheaper place then. Can you hang on until then? It looks like you can't count on his help for much, so you'll have to look into benefits, food bank, talk to the pastor, etc. It's going to be a lot of work, but you'll get some breathing room if you can get a cheaper place. Also talk to the apartment manager to see if they have any flexibility because of your situation. They probably won't budge, but it doesn't hurt to ask. One thing that sometimes works is if you move to a cheaper apartment in the same complex. They may let you out of your lease early if they know they'll keep you as a tenant.

I know you want to give your kids a good Christmas, but keep the bigger picture in mind. I'm worried you're one or two financial emergencies away from being in serious trouble.

You can keep trying to get your H to pull his weight, but don't kill yourself trying to get him to change. You make sure you get done what needs to get done. It sounds like it'll be a while before you know you can count on him.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

PeachyKeen said:


> I wish that things were as simple as they seem. We do not have cable but we do have an internet bill. This is a necessity as I do a lot of work on my computer at home. There are contracts for both my internet provider and our cell phone providers. We entered the contracts when we were both employed full-time and breaking or adjusting the contracts before the term is over will be costly. I’ve cut back by not getting my hair and nails done, we haven’t taken the kids to the movies in a while, and I’ve also been very lean with our grocery budget.
> 
> The reality is that we need another income. Our rent accounts for nearly half of my monthly take home check. We entered our lease, phone contract, internet contract, etc. as a double income family. How much more should I give up to try to account for this? I’ve even entered a capped electricity plan so that we don’t go above a certain amount.
> 
> I don’t mean to sound defensive but the pressure is a lot for sure. I’ve asked him to reach out to our former pastor to ask for help with groceries and he has yet to do it. Earlier today, I asked him if he considered going directly into retail stores that are hiring to turn in an application rather than throwing them on a virtual resume/application pile. Guess what? He’s been home all day. I’m not sure what else to do in the short term.


You don't sound defensive. Sounds like you're being proactive. And good for you for asking your husband to go in person to apply (great idea) and to ask your former pastor for help.

Okay so this is now a triage situation. We know by his reactions to your telling him you're leaving with the kids in December if he doesn't get a full time job and those two other items this isn't going to come to fruition. You must start to think, as sad as it is, of a plan for you and the kids for a new place to live. Start with a free consultation with a lawyer.

I'm sorry it has come to this.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

I feel bad that you're in this situtation.

Ok you have two months you need to to figure out if you're gonna put up with this or get out. Have a serious talk with him; maybe he's not taking you seriously. 

When I was going thru my divorce I honest to God thought I was going to be broke as a joke. But I'm not. I'm better off financially because even though my ex has a good job he was cheap; I paid for everything. 

He doesn't sound very motivated. I would have the talk, then take it from there. You have to worry about yourself and your kids


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PeachyKeen said:


> we do have an internet bill. This is a necessity as I do a lot of work on my computer at home.


Then do what I said and install a lock on it so it's only on when you're at home working.



> I’ve cut back by not getting my hair and nails done, we haven’t taken the kids to the movies in a while, and I’ve also been very lean with our grocery budget.


Then tell him to hand over his 'paycheck' and pay his car note and put the rest to the family bills. If YOU are cutting back, what is HE cutting back on? He is a CHILD and you need to control this family if he won't do it. 



> The reality is that we need another income. Our rent accounts for nearly half of my monthly take home check. We entered our lease, phone contract, internet contract, etc. as a double income family. How much more should I give up to try to account for this?


Do you hear yourself? What do I sacrifice? What do the kids sacrifice? Not ONCE have I heard you say what he is sacrificing. Are you afraid to stand up to him? Is that what this is about? It's very common, if that's the case. But it will have to change.



> I don’t mean to sound defensive but the pressure is a lot for sure. I’ve asked him to reach out to our former pastor to ask for help with groceries and he has yet to do it.


Of course he hasn't. Why should he? You will continue to bust your freakin' butt while he sponges off of you. Why? Because YOU ALLOW IT.



> Earlier today, *I asked him* if he *considered *going directly into retail stores that are hiring to turn in an application rather than throwing them on a virtual resume/application pile. Guess what? He’s been home all day. I’m not sure what else to do in the short term.


Peachy, come on. You ASKED him if he would CONSIDER doing this or that for the FAMILY? Do you hear yourself? Where is your anger? Kick his lazy, spoiled, entitled ass out, Peachy. Come on. Don't do this to your kids.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

I agree with Tunera. I was being nice, but I would have left him. 

Loses 4 jobs in 3 years, is a substitute teacher working 32 to 40 hours a week with the summer off. 

I would kick his [email protected]@ to the curb


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

musiclover said:


> I agree with Tunera. I was being nice, but I would have left him.
> 
> Loses 4 jobs in 3 years, is a substitute teacher working 32 to 40 hours a week with the summer off.
> 
> I would kick his [email protected]@ to the curb


Same. @turnera is my alter ego. I wanted to say what she said.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

turnera said:


> Then do what I said and install a lock on it so it's only on when you're at home working.


Something else to think about. When I was raising DD28, who is now married, buying a brand new built home, planning her kids and then her PhD, I had rules.

She was allowed 30 minutes a day during school days on electronics. Of any sort. She was free to choose which electronics she wanted to spend those 30 minutes on - internet, video games, social media, videos, etc. But that was it. The rest of the day, she first did her homework. Nothing else happened until that homework was done. Once it was done, and aside from family dinner, she was free to choose how to schedule the rest of the hours before bedtime.

On weekends, she was allowed 1 hour each day on electronics. The rest of the time - free to read, go hang out with friends, do sports, art, whatever. And I was available to do it all with her, if she wanted. But the electronics was A STARK RULE. We never discussed changing it because it was A STARK RULE.

Because of this, she grew up loving to read, loving to learn, loving to hang out with friends and do new stuff and do sports and so on. 

Your H is a child. He's a spoiled youngest child. Therefore, if you're going to stay married to him, you're going to have to relegate him to your children's category. Meaning he has rules. 

Including turning off the internet when you're not home.

He wants more time on internet? He can start providing enough money to pay the family bills AND to habitually participate in a savings account as well as a college savings account.

Until he's doing that? He's another child and he lives by your rules.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

Honestly, if he did not have a PT night job end of October,,
I would pack my bags and leave the minute my lease was up,

And whoever posted that he should be a SAHD very unattractive. No woman wants that


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

@PeachyKeen, what blondilocks said:

1. WHY has he lost 4 jobs in 3 years? Something is not right.

2. Blondilocks mentions you may end up having to file bankruptcy. But even if you do that, you can't keep up with your current bills right now, so that might dissolve your debt but what about just what it takes to get you through a month? mortgage/rent, groceries, insurance, etc?

I would definitely NOT take out a credit card to get through the month.

Is there any way to downsize? With the holidays coming your H should be able to get a seasonal job somewhere.




Blondilocks said:


> You need to look at the why of him losing 4 jobs in 3 years. What is going on?
> 
> Why is it your job to float the family financially? Why do you think it's your parents' job to help float you? Why does your husband think it is your job and your parents' job?
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PeachyKeen said:


> I’ve informed him that the kids and I will be moving out in December if his job situation isn’t fixed.


Where will you and the kids move to?

Has he considered doing some uber driving?

Is your income low enough to get some kind of assistance, such as food stamps (EBT)?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PeachyKeen said:


> I wish that things were as simple as they seem. We do not have cable but we do have an internet bill. This is a necessity as I do a lot of work on my computer at home. There are contracts for both my internet provider and our cell phone providers. We entered the contracts when we were both employed full-time and breaking or adjusting the contracts before the term is over will be costly. I’ve cut back by not getting my hair and nails done, we haven’t taken the kids to the movies in a while, and I’ve also been very lean with our grocery budget.
> 
> The reality is that we need another income. Our rent accounts for nearly half of my monthly take home check. We entered our lease, phone contract, internet contract, etc. as a double income family. How much more should I give up to try to account for this? I’ve even entered a capped electricity plan so that we don’t go above a certain amount.
> 
> I don’t mean to sound defensive but the pressure is a lot for sure. I’ve asked him to reach out to our former pastor to ask for help with groceries and he has yet to do it. Earlier today, I asked him if he considered going directly into retail stores that are hiring to turn in an application rather than throwing them on a virtual resume/application pile. Guess what? He’s been home all day. I’m not sure what else to do in the short term.


Does he put in much time applying for jobs using online methods?


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

1. I will not treat him like a child. I don’t think that method would be effective nor is it necessary. He solely pays the internet bill and can do whatever he wants with that. I’m choosing to put the little energy that I have into being a mother to my actual children and into figuring out what I will do next.

2. My plan is to either downsize in the same apartment community or to move back to my hometown, which isn’t far from where we currently live. The cost of living is much lower there but moving back will impact where my daughter goes to school next year. We love her current school, she has grown so much, but there are certainly other options. My son is still in daycare so things are a bit more flexible with him.

3. I make too much money to receive any government aid such as EBT or child care assistance. I’ve applied and been rejected. 

4. Yes, he applies for jobs online but I’m a fan of talking to people in-person. We’re approaching the holiday season so I’m sure that it’s easier to just walk in and talk to a manager to get your application pulled.

5. I think that pride is a huge factor here. He knows that he needs help (mentally and financially) but is refusing to seek help. This has been an ongoing issue. I’ve told him that if he doesn’t seek help starting today, he’s on his own.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

musiclover said:


> I agree with Tunera. I was being nice, but I would have left him.
> 
> Loses 4 jobs in 3 years, is a substitute teacher working 32 to 40 hours a week with the summer off.
> 
> I would kick his [email protected]@ to the curb


Agreed. Except to add that I'd kick his worthless ass to the curb so hard even his mother would feel it.

This guy is SUCH an ineffectual little wimp.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

PeachyKeen said:


> I think that my husband is depressed. We graduated from college during the Great Recession and he was never able to recover from not securing his dream job. Of his mom’s 3 children, he’s the youngest and the only one with a degree. While he was in college, his mom and siblings opened several accounts (credit cards, utility bills, phone lines, etc.) in his name believing that he was going to be some big shot when he graduated and could pay it back. After discovering the fraud, he did nothing about it. I didn’t expect him to prosecute his mother, but I did expect him to demand that she repay the outstanding accounts that were impacting his credit. Though she said that she would, she never did and things have gone on between them as if nothing happened. It’s really bizarre, actually.
> 
> All of this to say, we can’t rely on his family for anything. I just wish that he would get over himself, get a diagnosis for depression, get medication, and move on with his life. Our lease is up in December. If he doesn’t have it together by then, I’ll be forced to move on without him. This sucks because he’s a great father and handles domestic tasks well (cleaning, washing, folding, etc.).
> I have never witnessed divorce up close. My parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc are all still married. My husband’s parents had an ugly divorce when he was a child and it led to a life of pain for him and his siblings. This won’t be easy either way. This sucks.


OMG you're *still* making excuses for this sad sack.

I guess it's everyone* ELSE'S* fault that he refuses to man the hell up and become a productive human being and support his wife and kids. His parent's divorce was too painful for him. It's his _*family's *_fault for using his good credit back when he was in college and opening credit cards and utilities in his name ALL while he was completely '_*unaware*_' it was happening. <insert huge eye roll here>

And because he's too much of a ball-less wonder to stand up to his family for having supposedly robbed him blind using his good credit, he apparently sucked up all the debt they created and paid it himself. 

If he actually had a *spine* PeachyKeen, that mess would have ended very differently.

And lastly, you're even trying to blame the recession of '08 for his failure.

Ugh.

You sound like the typical clueless mother on Judge Judy who defends her kid and continues making excuses for him even *after* the evidence has shown a completely different story.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

I’m not faulting anyone or anything for his shortcomings. As a person who has experienced adversity since childhood, I personally know that there are no excuses to achieving whatever it is that you want to achieve. What we’re talking about here is a man who, for multiple reasons, sees himself as a victim and has internalized this to the point of depression. I’m simply vocalizing that I know what I’m dealing with. 

And I’m not naive. I believe that he benefited from his mother’s fraudulent behavior in some way or at the very least, he gave her permission the first couple of times that she used his Social Security number. This isn’t lost on me, but what can I do? I’ll be 30 next year and I made a vow to not drag unnecessary baggage into this next decade. 

I’ve confronted him on several the issues listed here and I’ve all but given up on him. I’m trying to not be this way because we have kids together. Even if we don’t stay together, he needs to be stable enough to provide for the kids and to take care of them without my supervision. 


She'sStillGotIt said:


> PeachyKeen said:
> 
> 
> > I think that my husband is depressed. We graduated from college during the Great Recession and he was never able to recover from not securing his dream job. Of his mom’s 3 children, he’s the youngest and the only one with a degree. While he was in college, his mom and siblings opened several accounts (credit cards, utility bills, phone lines, etc.) in his name believing that he was going to be some big shot when he graduated and could pay it back. After discovering the fraud, he did nothing about it. I didn’t expect him to prosecute his mother, but I did expect him to demand that she repay the outstanding accounts that were impacting his credit. Though she said that she would, she never did and things have gone on between them as if nothing happened. It’s really bizarre, actually.
> ...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Wow, you are so young to be putting up with this! I'm glad you've put your foot down and have made some tough decisions. I'm hopeful you'll carry them through if he doesn't deliver.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

Thank you so much for your support as I think through this. I don’t believe that this situation would be so complicated if children weren’t involved. I probably would’ve left after he lost the 2nd job. 


lucy999 said:


> Wow, you are so young to be putting up with this! I'm glad you've put your foot down and have made some tough decisions. I'm hopeful you'll carry them through if he doesn't deliver.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PeachyKeen said:


> Even if we don’t stay together, he needs to be stable enough to provide for the kids and to take care of them without my supervision.


Actually, that's not even true. You are technically better off financially without him in the picture, whether or not he pays child support. And he doesn't HAVE to be in the picture with the kids; if he proves to be dangerous or not taking care of them, you could even have him declared unfit to take care of them at all.

I'm not saying you NEED to do this, I'm just trying to say that you are - yet again - making excuses for not holding him accountable.

Something else to think about. My DD28 went through the same recession. When she started on her BS, the job she wanted would be paying $60,000/year. Now, with a Master's degree, that job is now paying her $40,000/year. Wait, she just got a 2% raise, so it's now $40,800. Was she happy? No. Did it stop her from pushing forward for that Master's? No, it gave her even MORE determination to get the second degree and eventually, a PhD.

I think that him being the baby of the family is the real culprit here. They are notorious for learning to skate, do as little as possible, and depend on others. That's just who you're stuck with; that part of him won't change. The only thing that can change here is YOU. And you're 30? Good grief, move on. As my IC once told me, move forward, do what needs to be done - without him. He can then either choose to get off his butt and keep up with you, or be left behind.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Does he make more substitute teaching than childcare costs? If childcare costs more than he makes as a sub, then you might want to consider having him stay home at least until you can get into a cheaper place. 

While I agree in concept with the others who recommend splitting up, I think there's a real risk of major financial impact to you at this time if you do. He can't support himself. If custody is split, he can't afford a place where the kids can stay. He can't afford child care when he's working. I worry that you would have to pay alimony to him. There's not enough income to support two households. We hope that he would be motivated to get a job, but there's no guarantee. There's a good chance he would just go freeload with his parents.

I personally think the most important issue right now is to get you on stable financial footing. Deciding what to do about the relationship can wait. It sounds like he's not really costing you a whole lot. His sub work is keeping his costs covered, so you're not really losing money staying with him. Use this time to create financial security so that you can safely move on later if you need.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree partially. Which is why you need to cut his access to anything that just lets him sit and home and goof off or spend your money. But his income isn't paying for his use of electricity or water or food and probably a bunch of other things we're not aware of.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

When I finally was brave enough to leave my abusive mooch of a no job having live in ex bf (again I'm not saying your H is abusive), I was soooooo flush with money I didn't know what to do with it! Seriously I was so busy busting my ass working two exhausting jobs I didn't even have time to think how much he was costing me. Granted, I don't have children. After the fact, it was a real eye opener for me moving forward in future relationships. I will repeat though, that I have alot of sadness and anger toward myself (from over 7 years ago!!! yes I know I need therapy) for running myself in the ground for him. It was SO not worth it. 

I just don't want that for you, Peachy. Or your kids. I don't want you to have that self hatred and emo baggage especially at your tender age.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You can't save him so fine-tune your plan to save yourself and your children. 

Your children are very young and it's much easier to make changes at that age than when they're older.


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## PeachyKeen (Jan 19, 2014)

Though I’ve literally spent my last dime to keep the family afloat for the last 3-4 months, I somehow find myself feeling bad for not doing more. I blame myself for not working hard enough to find a better paying job, I feel guilty when I put myself first, and I take ownership for things that aren’t beyond my control (like my husband’s job search). Maybe this is part of being a working mom. Either way, it has to stop. Thanks again for your comments and thoughts.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you know that I have personally sent out more than 2000 job applications in my husband's name? Because he wouldn't do it. I was driving myself insane trying to control him to be a better husband. My IC helped me to understand that I'm actually HURTING the family by taking on that sort of responsibility, because it props him up and helps him avoid his own consequences. She also explained the boundaries/consequence thing, which is actually the NEXT step to take after dropping the rope of trying to control him. 

If the husband (or wife) is not stepping up and pulling their weight - i.e. not meeting OUR Emotional Needs, we shouldn't be meeting THEIR Emotional Needs by making their life better. Not to punish them but to keep you from going crazy or depressed and to move the family forward despite his work AGAINST it. 

And yes, his actions are literally actions AGAINST you and your family and you need to start phrasing it that way.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

turnera said:


> Do you know that I have personally sent out more than 2000 job applications in my husband's name? Because he wouldn't do it.


Reading this made me physically ill just now. I can relate SO MUCH to this. 

I will never do this again. Never ever.


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