# Understanding "Selfish"



## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

Ever have one of those epiphany moments that make you feel like an idiot that you hadn't figured it out sooner? A real-life Homer Simpson D'oh! moment? I had one today.

For years my H would tell me he was selfish as his explanation for the issues we experienced in our M. Some of them were doozies, and I would think, "You're not just selfish, you're 100 times worse! You're narcissistic or some other deeply ingrained mental problem!" He'd make it worse by minimizing and saying "everyone is selfish" and I'd think, "NOT everyone is like you!"

I always thought of selfishness as simply needing to have the lion's share, like taking the bigger piece of pie or hogging the blanket, spending more of the disposable income, etc. More of a relative thing.

I finally looked up the definition of "selfish" today. Apparently, it's pursuing your own happiness/needs at the EXCLUSION of everyone else's. So rather than just the bigger piece of pie, selfish means you eat all of it and don't share any. Definition: "chiefly concerned with one's own interest, advantage, etc, esp to the total exclusion of the interests of others." I'm flabbergasted! My H was exactly right! I wonder if he knew what he was actually saying? He was so matter-of-fact about it. 

I certainly don't believe EVERYONE is selfish or there's not a M on earth that could survive.

Am I the only one surprised by this definition?


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## hehasmyheart (Mar 11, 2010)

So, he would just explain things away as "oh, i'm just selfish"? He accepted this as a justification?

I've also researched a lot on the subject of selfishness, and it comes down to pride. They think they're more important than you, more entitled, and will always put themselves first.

They won't share with you, and you'll never be allowed to be right or have your own feelings or point of view. Sound familiar?

I also agree that NOT everyone is selfish. No marriage would be happy if everyone was.

There is no relationship with a selfish person. You don't even exist, except to be taken advantage of for their gain.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I am not surprised by this definition at all. My last counselor was a German man who was around 60 years old and he told me that men think of their needs and their desires, they put themselves first. He said they are selfish and do not take into consideration other people's thoughts and feelings on what they do. He told me too that men lack compassion. His point on this was that there are more men in prison for murder than women and that in order to kill a person has to have no compassion. 

I mentioned this to some friends and had an overwhelming response that my counselor was whacked but I have sat back in observation with friends and have really paid attention to men's reactions, actions/behavior vs female and I see what he is saying.

This counselor felt that men's actions and decisions are dominated by testosterone and that women's hormones are what make the women she is. He said that male hormonal actions are aggression and sexual thoughts and acts. Women's hormones bring caring, understanding, and loving. Women are the nurtures by nature and this counselor believed it was due to our hormones.


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## hehasmyheart (Mar 11, 2010)

I somewhat agree with that, AVR. 80% of all narcissists are men, afterall.

However, there are plenty of selfish people of each gender. Not every man is selfish and not every woman is generous.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

AVR1962 said:


> I am not surprised by this definition at all. My last counselor was a German man who was around 60 years old and he told me that men think of their needs and their desires, they put themselves first. He said they are selfish and do not take into consideration other people's thoughts and feelings on what they do. He told me too that men lack compassion. His point on this was that there are more men in prison for murder than women and that in order to kill a person has to have no compassion.
> 
> I mentioned this to some friends and had an overwhelming response that my counselor was whacked but I have sat back in observation with friends and have really paid attention to men's reactions, actions/behavior vs female and I see what he is saying.
> 
> This counselor felt that men's actions and decisions are dominated by testosterone and that women's hormones are what make the women she is. He said that male hormonal actions are aggression and sexual thoughts and acts. Women's hormones bring caring, understanding, and loving. Women are the nurtures by nature and this counselor believed it was due to our hormones.


That sounds crazy to me. Sorry. Even qualified people have back-of.the-beer-mat theories which are not realted to reality. 

If it also sounds crazy to 80% of your friends, then that is a fair guide that there is a consensous.


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## mtn.lioness (Oct 29, 2013)

He was right about the definition of selfish. 

Do'h moments happen to me and when they do I feel really aware of the lightbulb going off. I will go over it and over it; wondering how I missed it. Especially when the connection was at my finger tips and yet it took me however long to make the connection. Now its what you do with the new awareness that I find interesting.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

DaytoDay said:


> Ever have one of those epiphany moments that make you feel like an idiot that you hadn't figured it out sooner? A real-life Homer Simpson D'oh! moment? I had one today.


Lately, I've been having these on REGULAR basis!!!



DaytoDay said:


> For years my H would tell me he was selfish as his explanation for the issues we experienced in our M. Some of them were doozies, and I would think, "You're not just selfish, you're 100 times worse! You're narcissistic or some other deeply ingrained mental problem!" He'd make it worse by minimizing and saying "everyone is selfish" and I'd think, "NOT everyone is like you!"
> 
> I always thought of selfishness as simply needing to have the lion's share, like taking the bigger piece of pie or hogging the blanket, spending more of the disposable income, etc. More of a relative thing.
> 
> ...


In general, I find MOST people to be very selfish and self absorbed.

THe key to finding a great person/marriage material is finding a person that is NOT. This will ensure that there is a healthy balance in the relationship.

Marriages/relationships are NOT for selfish people. Well they are, if other party is willing to put up with the BS.


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## Canon in D (Aug 24, 2014)

Women have maternal instincts so we tend to be the giver (of course there are women who are only takers). A good man will know when he must give back in return and appreciate the giver. I was told by a very selfish man that we must love ourselves before we can love anyone else, I was young and didn't understand then but I do now.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I think all people are somewhat selfish, some to a very large degree and others less so. I wouldn't paint it as men are more or less selfish as a whole though. 



> This counselor felt that men's actions and decisions are dominated by testosterone and that women's hormones are what make the women she is. He said that male hormonal actions are aggression and sexual thoughts and acts. Women's hormones bring caring, understanding, and loving. Women are the nurtures by nature and this counselor believed it was due to our hormones.


I especially dislike this theory because it seems to let men off the hook for CHOOSING to behave selfishly. "See, wifey? I don't have to consider you or anyone else, because hormones! Biology! It's not my fault I'm selfish!" 

If you watch little kids, you'll see they can be very selfish as tots. They want! Now! As babies, all their needs are met as quickly as possible, so they learn that's how the world is supposed to be - their needs are supposed to be met. If that's not corrected while they are children - if they aren't taught to share and be considerate of others and to think about how other people feel and to treat other people like they want to be treated, you end up with selfish adults. Selfish is very much a behavior that is magnified by not being taught better while they are children. But hey, I'm not a scientist or therapist, so maybe I'm wrong.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

norajane said:


> If you watch little kids, you'll see they can be very selfish as tots. They want! Now! As babies, all their needs are met as quickly as possible, so they learn that's how the world is supposed to be - their needs are supposed to be met. If that's not corrected while they are children - if they aren't taught to share and be considerate of others and to think about how other people feel and to treat other people like they want to be treated, you end up with selfish adults. Selfish is very much a behavior that is magnified by not being taught better while they are children. But hey, I'm not a scientist or therapist, so maybe I'm wrong.


You are completely right IMO.

The only thing is (and we all know this as parents)....sometimes people are who they are....and no matter how much/what you teach them....they will be those people.

Parenting is only 50%, other 50% is them/genetic coincidence......

I'm always VERY careful and sensitive about blaming parents for things. Mostly because I feel that I've done a great job as a parent in some regards, and based on results, I feel like I've done a horrible job in that particular regard.

:scratchhead:

And don't even get me started on people that don't have kids and judge other parents hehe......

Louis explains it best...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THf-0nq3MTE


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I agree that almost everyone is selfish to a greater or lessor degree.

I know myself well enough to know I can be selfish. I catch myself several times a week being selfish. Too tired, lazy to take out the garbage, so I leave it there. Too tired or unmotivated to help my wife out with something even if she doesn't ask. Too vain to give her a compliment when she gives them to me all the time.

If people ask about me (as far as I know), I've never been called selfish, quite the opposite. But I know I have it in me. Sometimes I catch myself being selfish and do the right thing.

Other times............


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

jorgegene said:


> I agree that almost everyone is selfish to a greater or lessor degree.
> 
> I know myself well enough to know I can be selfish. I catch myself several times a week being selfish. Too tired, lazy to take out the garbage, so I leave it there. Too tired or unmotivated to help my wife out with something even if she doesn't ask. Too vain to give her a compliment when she gives them to me all the time.
> 
> ...


Completely normal, I do the same and catch myself all the time too.


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

hehasmyheart said:


> So, he would just explain things away as "oh, i'm just selfish"? He accepted this as a justification?
> 
> I've also researched a lot on the subject of selfishness, and it comes down to pride. They think they're more important than you, more entitled, and will always put themselves first.
> 
> ...


This is spot on. And yes, it was his explanation for why he did the things he did, dismissed because "everyone's selfish."

I've had several thoughts today reflecting back and I hate that I was so .... faithful. I believed him when he said he cared and believed him when he said he was sorry and would change. But then, why would he? Changing would be of no benefit to him. He was already getting everything he wanted. I was a good W to him, because I made a conscious effort to be one. But without getting any of my needs met, my enthusiasm began to wane. 

So when a selfish person realizes they're losing something they want, they can either put effort into having an equitable relationship, or.....

They can make promises to do their part, without any intention of actually following thru, since the other party that isn't selfish will reinvest in good faith ... at least for a while.

So when a selfish person realizes they're losing something they want and empty promises aren't working anymore, they can either put effort into having an equitable relationship, or.....

They can start criticizing the other person for not being a very good spouse and not living up to her Christian duty, because an unselfish person with a sense of responsibility and a desire to be a good spouse will reinvest out of obligation ... at least for a while.

So when a selfish person realizes they're losing something they want, and empty promises and criticism aren't working anymore, they can either put effort into having an equitable relationship, or.....

They can start humiliating and demeaning their spouse by comparing her to the wives of all of their friends and acquaintances, real or imaginary, until she's so beaten down that she's apathetic and goes along with whatever he wants just to get relief from the mental abuse ... at least for a while.

Until she won't anymore. And then she asks for a D. 


I realize now that a selfish person will never invest in an equitable relationship, because there are easier ways to get what they want. And when that source runs dry, there's a world full of other suckers to fit the bill. Selfish people aren't stupid people. They know exactly what they need to do to get what they want with the least amount of effort possible.

I was just unfortunate enough to fall for the illusion and marry one.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> I realize now that a selfish person will never invest in an equitable relationship, because there are easier ways to get what they want


Sometimes pleasing the one you love is a selfish act because it brings the selfish person pleasure.

I think of the example of Bill G ates. Books about him describe him as ruthless in his business practices. Being successful like that probably brought him a lot pleasure.

Now that he is multi billionaire, it probably brings him great pleasure to be lauded as a philanthropist. 

Maybe his money does to fund good works, but think about how many small business people he made it difficult for in his quest to amass so much wealth. Did the software have to be that expensive? Did small businesses really have to upgrade as often as MS forced them to? Were they ever holding back new features to the software for the next upgrade even as they were putting out a current new upgrade?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

hehasmyheart said:


> I somewhat agree with that, AVR. 80% of all narcissists are men, afterall.
> 
> However, there are plenty of selfish people of each gender. Not every man is selfish and not every woman is generous.


Just did a google search and can not find anything that suggests this.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Women respond to male confidence. One pitfill of this is that it's tough to distinguish a confident, well adjusted personality from an irrationally confident, narcissistic/sociopathic one.

There are plenty of giving, caring men in the world, it's just that many women do not find them attractive. So if you conclude that most men are narcissists, I would say this is more a reflection of the men who you seek out rather than a reflection of men generally.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I am sure I will be in the minority here. But selfishness is the perfection of the human condition. What the OP has actually defined is greed. To be truly selfish would require one to consider the outcomes of their actions on those around them both in the short term and long term. A greedy person could not care any less. The selfish person, who is after all looking out for their own best interests, would consider the consequences of their actions and the effects they would have on others, particularly the ones they love the most. Beyond the act those consequences would also affect them. Selfishness is one of the most abused words in our language today. 
Much of this forum is devoted to perfecting our selfishness in order to attain real satisfaction in our relationships. OP please call it or what it is - greed, which the self destructive cousin of selfishness.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

DaytoDay said:


> Ever have one of those epiphany moments that make you feel like an idiot that you hadn't figured it out sooner? A real-life Homer Simpson D'oh! moment? I had one today.
> 
> For years my H would tell me he was selfish as his explanation for the issues we experienced in our M. Some of them were doozies, and I would think, "You're not just selfish, you're 100 times worse! You're narcissistic or some other deeply ingrained mental problem!" He'd make it worse by minimizing and saying "everyone is selfish" and I'd think, "NOT everyone is like you!"
> 
> ...


Everyone justifies their own actions to themselves. In a selfish person's mind, everyone else is also selfish. In a doper's mind, every else uses drugs or wishes they did. In a pedophile's mind, everyone has a secret thing or kids. 

Everyone is certainly not selfish and I submit that the vast majority of people are more selfless than selfish. The world is full of parents who slave away, not primarily to provide for their own desires, but to provide for their family. Cops don't rush into danger because they just love being shot at. All those firefighters didn't die in the Twin Towers because they were being selfish. The law only requires employers to pay minimum wage yet over 96% of all employees earn higher wages. 
I have lived on most continents and found most people to be quite generous, especially true of those who had very little. Most people exhibit empathy and compassion. 
I would be deeply ashamed as a man to admit that I was primarily self-serving. It's a sad character trait more appropriate for a two year old or some wild animals than for an adult. If someone genuinely believes they are hopelessly selfish, the last place they need to be is in a marriage.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

hehasmyheart said:


> So, he would just explain things away as "oh, i'm just selfish"? He accepted this as a justification?
> 
> I've also researched a lot on the subject of selfishness, and it comes down to pride. They think they're more important than you, more entitled, and will always put themselves first.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

~sammy


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Definitions aside, why do we put up with the selfishness? Why do we get suckered in to the selfish person's turning on us and blame ourselves? I know from both of my marriages I am susceptible to this. I have put up with complete nonsense thinking it was my fault for not trying hard enough. I SO don't want to do that anymore. How do I innoculate myself?


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