# 5 years from now?



## confused55 (Apr 30, 2011)

It's my anniversary today and am just feeling a bit sad and thinking a lot.

How many of you that have been the victim of infidelity believe you will still be with your spouses 5 years from now (if you are really honest with yourselves)?

I'm finding it really difficult, some days are bad, some good. It's been 1.5 years now and I don't know if I can stay with someone who was so disrespectful to our lives together for the rest of my life.

Married 31 years.


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## KnK (Oct 15, 2012)

I have been married for almost 6yrs now H cheated on our second year of marriage ,4 almost 5 years ago. It is difficult still to this day. Sometimes I feel like crap and stay mad at him. In all honestly though I can say I am positive I will be with him 5 years from now. I love him and even though we still have issues to work through I made a commitment and already forgave him. I don't think it would be right for me to say forgave him and take him back just to leave in the future.


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## Samus (Aug 28, 2012)

My friend, I would never forgive my spouse if they committed adultery or cheated on me. 

There is no 2nd chances in my book, but that is me and everyone is different. I can't live with the fact that my wife abandoned me to be with another man, if she can do that then she can do it again behind my back and figure out a way to be secretive again. 

If a spouse cheats on there loved one, then they have no respect and I don't care how human you are, I have the right to not continue our marriage. People say there human, mistakes happen and see if you can continue or reconcile, I don't believe in reconciliation, but some people are built differently. 

By leaving the cheater your giving them the hard meaning of what the consequences are for cheating. Reconciling with a cheater just empowers other cheaters to continue to do it because they know the possibility of reconciliation is there. I am not knocking on anyone that reconciled and was successful although I think it is weak on the BS part, but to each there own. I might get flamed for saying that, but its the truth, cheating is 100% no chances divorce. Some may say its the harder path to reconcile and the easy path to just leave. Yes it is harder to reconcile and perhaps the resentment will be strong for a while, but the bottomline, self respect of oneself is more important then reconciliation and having self respect in its own is a harder path. Look at it whichever way you think, but a cheating spouse doesn't deserve anything but hate, disgust and shame from the BS. Don't be a weak, doormat person, be strong, charismatic and powerful to control your own self worth and respect. 

Perhaps in there next relationship Wayward spouses will know better.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Our old marriage is long gone, the new one we have is way better and it knowing that the new person I'm now with is healtier...emotionally speeaking.

Even though i have the same spouse, she and our marriage are different.

At the end of the day you have to look at the good thing that are to come with this same but different person.

I mean if your old man has made the changes and meeting your needs and is doing the heavy lifting to affair proof his marriage then you got your self a better stronger marriage....but if he is still the same old POS then it ain't worth it...cuz you girl, diserve good things!

I used to push my wife around and she slept around so this perspective is comeing from the guy with a very unhealthy 20 year marriage. I no longer hit my wife and she no longer sleeps around so as long as we now know each others capacity to screw up a good thing and have learned the tools to be better poeple as individuals, it seem to be working much better now.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

I could not picture myself with my STBXWW 5 years in the future. That's why I chose to file for divorce. This is one of the questions I kept asking myself after the last D day. I needed to be able to make my decision based on looking into the future as well as considering her past behavior. 

I knew that I would never get the truth from her...the whole, honest, truth. I couldn't live with that. I didn't think I could ever trust her again. There were many things about her that I discovered after marrying her that I didn't like...selfishness, entitlement, laziness, double standard, spending problems...to name a few. These things were tolerable when I thought she was faithful. But you through in cheating and it's just too much to live with. Lack of real remorse also factored strongly into my decision. I was not happy with our sex life for a couple years before her affair and she seemed unwilling to change that. I knew that I would never be satisfied with that part of our relationship after her cheating. I also feel that she is deeply flawed and cheating could very well happen again...with POSOM (lives only 4 miles away) or someone else.

In my mind, our marriage was no longer pure and innocent as it was before. There would forever be a black cloud overhead or an asterisk next to it. I wish my crystal ball would have showed me something different 5 years from now. I didn't want this divorce but I don't have a choice. The vision I am seeing would be filled with loneliness, regret as well as miserable and stressful. It's just not worth the risk for me to stay.


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## confused55 (Apr 30, 2011)

Sometimes I think if my husband would have hit me and even if I ended up with something broken and in the hospital, it would be easier to get over and forgive than infidelity.

I know it sounds kind of sick, but I think it would be easier than this.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Samus said:


> My friend, I would never forgive my spouse if they committed adultery or cheated on me.
> 
> There is no 2nd chances in my book, but that is me and everyone is different. I can't live with the fact that my wife abandoned me to be with another man, if she can do that then she can do it again behind my back and figure out a way to be secretive again.
> 
> ...


You are aware that there are many successfully R'ing people in the CWI forum, right? And that you've basically just called us all weak, doormat losers with no self respect?

Perhaps it would be better if you just delete your post.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

confused55 said:


> It's my anniversary today and am just feeling a bit sad and thinking a lot.
> 
> How many of you that have been the victim of infidelity believe you will still be with your spouses 5 years from now (if you are really honest with yourselves)?
> 
> ...


I believe we will be, but my hubby is the exception to the rule - a truly remorseful wayward. If he wasn't, the answer would be HE!! no.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Samus - That would be "Thier" (twice), "Than" and "You're".


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I try to not think about the future too much. Concentrate (it's hard) to live in the present, knowing what I now know about my wife and her capabilities.

She is just not the self-improvement type of person, so I am aware that she may cheat again some day, or may just have another agenda for a time limited relationship (kids, finances or whatever).

So my choice is to accept that this is how she is, and I will enjoy being with her for as long as it may last - there will be no more R-rounds. Also knowing that I am free to go any time I might feel like it.

It sounds so cynical when I write this, but I actually think I have made huge progress since D-day 1½ year ago.

5 years? I have a hard time seeing us together for summer vacation next year - we need to book that now.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

confused55 said:


> It's my anniversary today and am just feeling a bit sad and thinking a lot.
> 
> How many of you that have been the victim of infidelity believe you will still be with your spouses 5 years from now (if you are really honest with yourselves)?
> 
> ...


That is why I filed for divorce after our an attempted false R.

If my STBEH had not been outed anonymously, I would never have known he was still talking with the OW and engaging in other disrespectful behaviors .

I was an idiot who believed our R was going well. 

In any case, I could not see myself staying with my spouse forever. 

So, I decided it was better to D sooner rather than later. 

Why waste 5 more years of your life with someone who already deceived you and betrayed you in the worst possible way.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Samus said:


> My friend, I would never forgive my spouse if they committed adultery or cheated on me.
> 
> There is no 2nd chances in my book, but that is me and everyone is different. I can't live with the fact that my wife abandoned me to be with another man, if she can do that then she can do it again behind my back and figure out a way to be secretive again.
> 
> ...


I agree with all you said. 

A majority a religions consider a marriage nulled after cheating, and the hurt spouse is no longer obligated, nor advised, to honor any marriage vows, once a cheater has already broken those vows. 

I also agree that people who reconcile are contributing to the rise in cheating.
My STBEH actually said to me that other wives forgive their husbands, I thought you would, too. 

Well I did forgive him, but I no longer trust him and their is no real comfort in a marriage without trust, so why stay married. 

There are too many phony self-proclaimed gurus on the internet too, who claim a marriage can be better after cheating. 

That statement is ludicrous. 

A marriage may survive a betrayal such as cheating, but it will NEVER improve the marriage, particularly not for the hurt spouse. 

It's like the humpty dumpty song says. 

Humpty dumpty fell off the wall
Humpty dumpty took a great fall, 

All the kings horses and all the kings men
Could never put humpty back together again.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Decimated said:


> discovered after marrying her that I didn't like...selfishness, entitlement, laziness, double standard, spending problems...to name a few. These things were tolerable when I thought she was faithful. But you through in cheating and it's just too much to live with.


Same in my situation. 

I tolerated all those things for years because I trusted that my husband was the faithful sort. 

When a counselor pointed out to me that my STBEH was actually selfish in many of his behaviors throughout the marriage, I cried in relief.

My spouse was also a pedantic sort that insisted on deflecting from the real issues by focusing on spelling or speech errors during arguments. 

A counselor alos pointed out how pointless and non-relevant being pedantic was.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Sara8 said:


> I agree with all you said.
> 
> A majority a religions consider a marriage nulled after cheating, and the hurt spouse is no longer obligated, nor advised, to honor any marriage vows, once a cheater has already broken those vows.
> 
> ...


As one BS who did work his butt off to recover and for my FWW who did also, we can both honestly say we do have a stronger marriage after reconciliation. Trust will always have a asterisk next to it, I will grant you that but we also better know how to address issues in the marriage more quickly so we don't get to critical mass again. That is a result of not having blind trust.

Sorry your marriage went down the crapper but don'l lambaste the rest of us who have or are attempting reconciliation because of your failure to recover or apparent aversion to even try.

P.S. OP, my wife and I are 5+ years past D-Day!


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> As one BS who did work his butt off to recover and for my FWW who did also, we can both honestly say we do have a stronger marriage after reconciliation. Trust will always have a asterisk next to it, I will grant you that but we also better know how to address issues in the marriage more quickly so we don't get to critical mass again. That is a result of not having blind trust.
> 
> Sorry your marriage went down the crapper but don'l lambaste the rest of us who have or are attempting reconciliation because of your failure to recover or apparent aversion to even try.
> 
> P.S. OP, my wife and I are 5+ years past D-Day!


Hi Amplexor:

I am glad you are one who survived, and I appreciate that you noted that trust will always be an asterisk. That is my major and only point. 

As for trying. If you read my posts, you will note that I did try to reconcile for almost a year. 

Went to counciling, made changes to please my spouse. 

Alas, cheating spouse fooled both me and the counselors. They all thought as did I, that the reconciliation was going well. 

Unfortunately, whoever originally outed my spouse, gathered more photos and details and outed him again. 

Sorry, I did try. 

My mistake was I had the audacity to not continue to check up on him. 

I don't want to continue to play cop to my spouse. It's not in my nature to snoop, so I filed.

A marriage in which trust is always questionable is a tough row to hoe


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

I can see us together 5 yrs from now, as long as we maintain open communication and he does not have an affair again. We have learned a lot about each other through reconciliation. I have learned a lot about myself, which surprised the crap out of me. We will be married 14 yrs in December.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> As one BS who did work his butt off to recover and for my FWW who did also, we can both honestly say we do have a stronger marriage after reconciliation. Trust will always have a asterisk next to it, I will grant you that but we also better know how to address issues in the marriage more quickly so we don't get to critical mass again. That is a result of not having blind trust.
> 
> Sorry your marriage went down the crapper but don'l lambaste the rest of us who have or are attempting reconciliation because of your failure to recover or apparent aversion to even try.
> 
> P.S. OP, my wife and I are 5+ years past D-Day!


Amplexor, I don't think Sara is lambasting anyone. She sounds like she is just stating her opinion as it relates to her situation and experience. 

I have nothing against R and I don't think Sara does either. In fact, I wish I could have R'd with my STBXW. I did try for over a year...she did not. 

I do agree with Sara on this point. Based on my personal experience, in my situation, with my STBXW's cheating and her personality flaws, to pursue it any further was a waste of time. I honestly don't think our marriage could ever have ended up better. I didn't even feel our marriage could be good again...the scars would always be there as a reminder of what she did...if I forgave her or not.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Samus said:


> My friend, I would never forgive my spouse if they committed adultery or cheated on me.
> 
> There is no 2nd chances in my book, but that is me and everyone is different. I can't live with the fact that my wife abandoned me to be with another man, if she can do that then she can do it again behind my back and figure out a way to be secretive again.
> 
> ...


I do not consider myself weak for staying. I have allowed him a second chance. This is it. I have given him a gift and now he can chose to accept it or throw it away.

And I am NOT empowering him to continue. I have been very clear with him. If he ever does it again or anything that resembles trying I am gone and he will have to explain to our three kids why he did it. He realizes how serious I am. Found out that he really thought I was leaving when I found out. He was in tears with his cousin over it. 

I think you need to realize that not every man cheats more than once.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Sara8 said:


> Sorry, I did try.


My apologies then and I commend you for your efforts. My primary concern with the post (And many others on the forum) is the negative impact it can have on a BS struggling with recovery. I needed a lot of positive attitude to get through mine and certainly didn't need the naysayers I encountered here and other places that tried to beat me down because they themselves couldn't ****ing hack it to do what was required to succeed. There are a couple of ways a BH can "man up". One is to stand up to a cheating spouse and demand honesty, effort and commitment. The other is to face his own demons, inadequacies and faults, address them be become a better person for it. In my case it was a hybrid. 

Again I commend you for your efforts and my post is general in nature.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

the guy said:


> Our old marriage is long gone, the new one we have is way better and it knowing that the new person I'm now with is healtier...emotionally speeaking.
> 
> Even though i have the same spouse, she and our marriage are different.
> 
> ...


Totally agree!
My WH and I will be together in another 5 years for sure.
As above, our old marriage is dead and we are well on the way to a successful R.
Our marriage is better 'despite' his A not 'because' of it.
I love my H dearly. 'For better for worse' we have definitely been through the worse and I'm so glad I didn't chose to end the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sometimes folks really don't have a choice to end there marriage....I mean some waywards are just so broken and screwed up a betrayed has to get out.

Some poeple just get a raw deal and we all know it takes two. Even in some case the infidelity is a deal breaker and theres nothing wrong with that either, especially when the betrayed was a desent spouse and the marriage is good.

I guess there is a degree of forgivness...in fact a degree of something being unfogiveable. I'm sure alot a women would have bailed if ther old man raised a hand to them just one time, just like cheating being also a deal breaker.

Simply, its just wrong to judge someone for the choices they make in leaving or staying with a wayward....there are just to many variables to take into acoount.


Again some betrayed just don't get the remorse that other betrayed get who are in a R. And I think it make the betrayed alot more jaded when there is no remorse. Hence some of the responses on this thread. But hay they have that right they got a faw deal.

Someone once said R is just as hard as D......


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> My primary concern with the post (And many others on the forum) is the negative impact it can have on a BS struggling with recovery. I needed a lot of positive attitude to get through mine and certainly didn't need the naysayers I encountered here and other places that tried to beat me down because they themselves couldn't ****ing hack it to do what was required to succeed.


This is also my concern with posts like the ones Sara posts here on a regular basis. Chris says, in his guidelines for the CWI forum, "Affairs are very destructive. But relationships can, and do recover from them. Be supportive of those choosing to make that effort." I find many of Sara's posts to be the opposite of supporting to those trying to recover. I asked Sara last week if she could quit posting stuff like that, and she refused to answer me and has continued to do so.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> This is also my concern with posts like the ones Sara posts here on a regular basis. Chris says, in his guidelines for the CWI forum, "Affairs are very destructive. But relationships can, and do recover from them. Be supportive of those choosing to make that effort." I find many of Sara's posts to be the opposite of supporting to those trying to recover. I asked Sara last week if she could quit posting stuff like that, and she refused to answer me and has continued to do so.


I do have to say that Sara is telling her truth after trying to make her way through a false reconciliation. She may be a little jaded but she sure as the hell supports me in my reconciliation. She has never once told me I am a fool for trying. Just brought to my attention that even with a BS doing their work, things might not work out. Please do not give her to hard of a time.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

As a trusting dupe, and after having been abandoned by STBXW, with virtually no communication from her; and after she had filed for divorce and then called me on a whim~ I proposed R to her which she "considered" for less than 12 hours. An email later she said "no" to my proposal.

At the advice of legal counsel, I investigated her cell phone records for a period of some 2 years hence and then found my answer as to why!

Two EA's and PA's with two different men from her past in two different locales, going on simultaneously; not only post-separation, but even while I was living and sleeping with her as husband and wife.

Five years from now, all that I really want her to be is just a bad memory!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

underwater2010 said:


> I do have to say that Sara is telling her truth after trying to make her way through a false reconciliation. She may be a little jaded but she sure as the hell supports me in my reconciliation. She has never once told me I am a fool for trying. Just brought to my attention that even with a BS doing their work, things might not work out. Please do not give her to hard of a time.


We must be reading totally different posts then.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Well I'm a year out and the pain is still fresh and powerful. I never even imaged I could feel this much pain from another person. Still have major trust issues and oh relationship is not good. We love each other so much now and have come a long way but I wonder if I am just not built to get over this. I am so weak and petty so if she did want someone else it would not surprise me.

I think of leaving her all the time but just can't. Really, its like a prison that I'm not sure I will ever get out of. Depressing as heck I know but here I am.

I would add that I love this woman so much I cannot believe it. Glunten for punishment I guess but this was my soul mate (maybe still is) so it hurts so bad my skin burns. ugg.

My self esteem took a gigantic hit from which I just not sure I'll come back from. I miss her horribly when she is away but the silence and disappointed looks I get from her just kill me when shes here. Its gut wrenching.

I've heard it feels like someone died but its worse because they die over and over every day. I feel alone, scared, rejected, like a loser and cannot pull myself up. 2nd marriage and got cheated on in the first one too but this one is 100 times worse.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

confused55 said:


> It's my anniversary today and am just feeling a bit sad and thinking a lot.
> 
> How many of you that have been the victim of infidelity believe you will still be with your spouses 5 years from now (if you are really honest with yourselves)?
> 
> ...


As I stated, we are 5 years past D-Day. While I try to stay a positive influence on the forum I don't think I have ever sugar coated it that the marriage will ever be the same. It won't, but it can be better in many aspects. One of which is the respect that my wife and I developed for each other that built over the reconciliation period. Its a nebulous kind of thing to me and I would describe it as we walked away from each other into the abyss but came back from it together. We survived something many don't and we both have more faith the other's commitment to and respect for the marriage. 

A year and a half is not enough time to put this behind you but from your statement I would ask this question. Have you forgiven him? Until you do you won't let it stay behind you, or at least to some acceptable level. Forgiveness is a huge step in the process.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Hi, 
I saw many people posting: "If I were you, If that happened to me." You're not a role model and it didn't happen to you, so that's just your ego bragging.
If you didn't deal with an affair in your marriage, you can't even begin to conceive what it's like. It's not a competition, neither it is a muscle show.

I choose to divorce because that will make me sleep peacefully five years from now, Amplexor or Acabado chose reconciliation because their wives deserved a second chance. Individuals are different.
I am happy when I read this kind of stories because it shows that finding the right person exists, whether they strayed or they sticked to their morals and values.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Confused55
> 
> It's my anniversary today and am just feeling a bit sad and thinking a lot.
> 
> ...




*If you and your spouse take the right actions you can be with your spouse with a degree of contentment in 5-10-20 years from now.

If only one is working on it you probably will not last 5 years.*


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> *If you and your spouse take the right actions you can be with your spouse with a degree of contentment in 5-10-20 years from now.
> 
> If only one is working on it you probably will not last 5 years.*


Yep. 22 years out from her affair and counting, and the marriage is the best it's ever been but it was hard, very hard to get there. But worth it.

At 1.5 years out I was still in hell, and it still hurts sometimes.

But it only works if both are trying.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Samus said:


> I am *not knocking* on anyone that reconciled and was successful although I think it is *weak* on the BS part, but to each there own.


*Not knocking* you but I think your logic is *weak*.




Samus said:


> Perhaps in there next relationship Wayward spouses will know better.


Yes, she did. Her next relationship was with the same husband as in her first relationship


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Taking a positive approach to this...her affair opened my eyes to a lot of sins on my part. Pride, Ego, selfishness and treating my wonderful wife like she was unimportant come to mind. Regardless I have to be a gentleman and treat her with respect. Those things should have been there all along. Not sure we are going to make it but I am a better person because of this without question.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

When I was where you are, I did not believe that I would be there 5 yrs later. But here we are. She has changed a lot. We both understand much more about ourselves and each other. I think we'll be together until the end. Took a lot of work, and there's still some pain, but on balance, I'd say it has been worth it.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

At 30 years married my annv. present was finding out my "loving" wife had been serially EAPA cheating on me for 6 years with old boy friends. With the level of betrayal, the lies upon lies, what was said and written, my IC, preacher, FIL, my family, and finally myself pretty much knew we were finished. 

Well... 3+ years post dd we are still together, married, happy, living in the present. 

How?

At lot of counseling, bare honesty, mercy... One thing for her that was paramount. She has told me that not unlike a drug addict she really had to step to the precipice of consequence for her actions. 
I think a lot of R fail when the offender never is "allowed" to deal with the consequences of their betrayal. My wife was left alone except for the OM (serial cheater himself) who was the very reason she was in such pain.

Is the 800lb gorilla still in the corner of the room. You bet! I don't think he will ever depart completely, just getting a little thinner.


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## confused55 (Apr 30, 2011)

RWB said:


> At 30 years married my annv. present was finding out my "loving" wife had been serially EAPA cheating on me for 6 years with old boy friends. With the level of betrayal, the lies upon lies, what was said and written, my IC, preacher, FIL, my family, and finally myself pretty much knew we were finished.
> 
> Well... 3+ years post dd we are still together, married, happy, living in the present.
> 
> ...




I'm not sure I understand what you mean about being allowed to deal with the consequences of the betrayal.

I don't know if I can live with any kind of gorilla in the room, that's the problem. I didn't bring the gorilla into our lives and don't know if I want one in it at all.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

confused55 said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean about being allowed to deal with the consequences of the betrayal.
> 
> I don't know if I can live with any kind of gorilla in the room, that's the problem. I didn't bring the gorilla into our lives and don't know if I want one in it at all.


But your only choice is what gorilla sits in the corner

The one with your wife
The one with the next partner who may also cheat
The one of being alone.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> You are aware that there are many successfully R'ing people in the CWI forum, right? And that you've basically just called us all weak, doormat losers with no self respect?
> 
> Perhaps it would be better if you just delete your post.


Hope, Samus' post may be simplistic and wrong-headed, but it IS his opinion, and as such, he has a right to express it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Hope, Samus' post may be simplistic and wrong-headed, but it IS his opinion, and as such, he has a right to express it.


Course he does. So do I


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> As one BS who did work his butt off to recover and for my FWW who did also, we can both honestly say we do have a stronger marriage after reconciliation. Trust will always have a asterisk next to it, I will grant you that but we also better know how to address issues in the marriage more quickly so we don't get to critical mass again. That is a result of not having blind trust.
> 
> Sorry your marriage went down the crapper but don'l lambaste the rest of us who have or are attempting reconciliation because of your failure to recover or apparent aversion to even try.
> 
> P.S. OP, my wife and I are 5+ years past D-Day!


Sorry, Amp, don't want any "asterisks", in my relationships. A repaired structure is NEVER as strong as the original.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Sorry, Amp, don't want any "asterisks", in my relationships. A repaired structure is NEVER as strong as the original.


Not true.

The personal faults that introduced infidelity into our marriage were always there. Post affair we understand the risk a lot better and can guard against it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The marriage we had before and during him cheating is gone. We didn't repair it, he destroyed it. It's over. The guy I'm married to now is a MUCH better guy than the old one, and the marriage we have now is totally different.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Yep. 22 years out from her affair and counting, and the marriage is the best it's ever been but it was hard, very hard to get there. But worth it.
> 
> At 1.5 years out I was still in hell, and it still hurts sometimes.
> 
> But it only works if both are trying.


It makes me happy to know that things can be healed.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> My apologies then and I commend you for your efforts. My primary concern with the post (And many others on the forum) is the negative impact it can have on a BS struggling with recovery. I needed a lot of positive attitude to get through mine and certainly didn't need the naysayers I encountered here and other places that tried to beat me down because they themselves couldn't ****ing hack it to do what was required to succeed. There are a couple of ways a BH can "man up". One is to stand up to a cheating spouse and demand honesty, effort and commitment. The other is to face his own demons, inadequacies and faults, address them be become a better person for it. In my case it was a hybrid.
> 
> Again I commend you for your efforts and my post is general in nature.


Amp, the truth can 't be negative or positive, it just is. I don't think that BS's ( or WS's, for that matter) need to be coddled. What they need is realistic answers not "pie in the sky". I respect those people who are in R, but haved based their R on the truth and a realistic appraisal of their chances. It is a huge dis-service to insult those of us BS's who tried to R but who's WS did not make the same effort. To claim that they "couldn't hack it", is just as wrong as saying that those who chose to R are doormats.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> This is also my concern with posts like the ones Sara posts here on a regular basis. Chris says, in his guidelines for the CWI forum, "Affairs are very destructive. But relationships can, and do recover from them. Be supportive of those choosing to make that effort." I find many of Sara's posts to be the opposite of supporting to those trying to recover. I asked Sara last week if she could quit posting stuff like that, and she refused to answer me and has continued to do so.


Hope there is a huge difference between support and justification. Sara is a great poster and you are not the moderator, so lets try to keep personalities out of this, OK?


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## Samus (Aug 28, 2012)

Wazza said:


> *Not knocking* you but I think your logic is *weak*.
> 
> 
> Fine, yes, I admit I think it is weak for someone to take a cheater back into there lives. I think it is all about self-respect, and you can blast me or disrespect me as much as you want, but I want you to understand it is my opinion and to each there own.
> ...


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## Samus (Aug 28, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Course he does. So do I


Hope and everyone else I have much appreciation for the contribution that everyone gives to this forum, be it reconciliation or don't tolerate cheating and leave. 

We both have different views on it and my view is its inappropriate to reconcile. 

I will not delete my post, and I think I have the right to suggest non-reconciliation as an avenue for BS as I feel it is the better route. 

Maybe saying people are weak for doing it is wrong, but that is how I see it and I will stick with that. There are many people who have done atrocious things to themselves because of cheaters, and I will not stand for it.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Not true.
> 
> The personal faults that introduced infidelity into our marriage were always there. Post affair we understand the risk a lot better and can guard against it.


Sorry Waz, you know that I like and respect you, but I have to disagree. I don't want to have to "guard" my SO from cheating. It's better to take the time to find an SO who has the integrity and wisdom, so that she doesn't require a guard.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Sorry Waz, you know that I like and respect you, but I have to disagree. I don't want to have to "guard" my SO from cheating. I will rather take the time to find an SO who has the integrity and wisdom that doesn't require a guard.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Samus said:


> Wazza said:
> 
> 
> > *Not knocking* you but I think your logic is *weak*.
> ...


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Hope there is a huge difference between support and justification. Sara is a great poster and you are not the moderator, so lets try to keep personalities out of this, OK?


Jawohl, herr kommandant!!! (said in my best Sergeant Schultz voice)


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Samus said:


> There are many people who have done atrocious things to themselves because of cheaters, and I will not stand for it.


You have to be strong in yourself. Was it the cheater's fault they did that, or was it their over reliance on the cheater that made them vulnerable?

Someone who folds because they were cheated on isn't really displaying alpha behaviour, are they?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Samus said:


> Hope and everyone else I have much appreciation for the contribution that everyone gives to this forum, be it reconciliation or don't tolerate cheating and leave.
> 
> We both have different views on it and my view is its inappropriate to reconcile.
> 
> ...


Samus, you and Amplexor and Hope have the right to express your opinions, but please be civil about it. Calling people weak, saying that certain people can't hack it, or calling posters out are inflamitory statements. I would ask that we all try to phrase our posts so that they aren't offensive. Please.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Sorry Waz, you know that I like and respect you, but I have to disagree. I don't want to have to "guard" my SO from cheating. I will rather take the time to find an SO who has the integrity and wisdom that doesn't require a guard.


Ah, BB, we meet again! 

Go for it, let me know when you find it.

There is a shortage of perfect people in the world. You and I aside, I am not aware of any. 

Once you stop looking for perfection and settle for good and workable, it becomes easier.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Jawohl, herr kommandant!!! (said in my best Sergeant Schultz voice)


LOL, I don't even look like Colonel Klink, so there!!


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Ah, BB, we meet again!
> 
> Go for it, let me know when you find it.
> 
> ...


There you go again, with the superlatives.  I'm not looking for perfect, just honest. I don't think that's too much to ask for , do you?


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## Samus (Aug 28, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Samus, you and Amplexor and Hope have the right to express your opinions, but please be civil about it. Calling people weak, saying that certain people can't hack it, or calling posters out are inflamitory statements. I would ask that we all try to phrase our posts so that they aren't offensive. Please.


Your right BB, perhaps I was a little harsh about it, I just feel so bad for people that get cheated on and end up hurting themselves because of WS's. 

I guess I let my anger get the best of me. My apologies to spouses that reconciled, but my stance on reconciliation stays the same, I don't think your weak, I just think it is inappropriate and I have explained why in previous post.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Samus, you and Amplexor and Hope have the right to express your opinions, but please be civil about it. Calling people weak, saying that certain people can't hack it, or calling posters out are inflamitory statements. I would ask that we all try to phrase our posts so that they aren't offensive. Please.


You do know Amp *IS* a mod, right?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Samus said:


> Your right BB, perhaps I was a little harsh about it, I just feel so bad for people that get cheated on and end up hurting themselves because of WS's.
> 
> I guess I let my anger get the best of me. My apologies to spouses that reconciled, but my stance on reconciliation stays the same, I don't think your weak, I just think it is inappropriate and I have explained why in previous post.


Thanks for the apology. I am wondering, have you read the stories of the posters here who are reconciling and have been successfully doing so for a number of years? And/or followed their posts?

I am one of the first to tell a BS to kick their lying cheating WS out the door, because that is exactly what I did. Sadly, very few take my advice


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

ACtually, Hope, I'm sort of like a Black Col. Hogan, only handsomer, smarter and more cuddly.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> You do know Amp *IS* a mod, right?


Yes, I do, and he is a good one, but, with respect, I happen to think he is wrong about this.


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## Samus (Aug 28, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Thanks for the apology. I am wondering, have you read the stories of the posters here who are reconciling and have been successfully doing so for a number of years? And/or followed their posts?
> 
> I am one of the first to tell a BS to kick their lying cheating WS out the door, because that is exactly what I did. Sadly, very few take my advice


Hope - you don't know the half of it, I think I read this too much and do less work LOL....and my wife is going to beat me up because I am just getting smarter when it comes to relationships. :lol:

But to answer your question more directly, yes I have read and read and read and I do see people that are succesful. I am not trying to change that. If a person posts and they state that they want to reconcile then I will help them with that, and if a person posts and state they don't know what to do, then I will support leaving there spouse and moving on. It all depends what the BS wants, and how they post to be honest. 

What I get from the post is how I will react, but I will lean towards break-up majority of the time because personally I believe its the right avenue, cause I like to see WS squirm and riggle and learn from there mistakes.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Badblood said:


> ACtually, Hope, I'm sort of like a Black Col. Hogan, only handsomer, smarter and more cuddly.


OK, as long as you aren't anything like Bob Crane. EEEeewwww.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I am definitely not weak!
That's all I have to say!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Badblood said:


> There you go again, with the superlatives.  I'm not looking for perfect, just honest. I don't think that's too much to ask for , do you?


Are you totally 100% honest? Never told a lie? Never concealed something?

I'm not.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Samus said:


> I am not knocking on anyone that reconciled and was successful although I think it is weak on the BS part, but to each there own.


Samus, have you ever been cheated on? Cheated on someone? The reason that I ask is that one can never be 100% certain what they will do until face with a given situation.

You consider the BS that reconciles with a cheating spouse weak; however, I think sometimes it shows a great deal of strength and fortitude to do this. 

Back to my original question: if you've never experienced infidelity what is it that draws you to this forum?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Are you totally 100% honest? Never told a lie? Never concealed something?
> 
> I'm not.


GEEZ, Waz, do you always talk like this? Try to come back down to Earth, will you? I NEVER said anything about perfection, OK? Try to come to grips with the ideas that opinions are subjective. There is a huge difference between cheating and Garden variety errors. Are you really this wishy-washy? Do you have no standards? If you accept everything then you stand for nothing. I want and expect my woman(whoever she turns out to be) to have standards of behavior too. I don't ask for perfection, I ask for basic honesty, love and desire, and these are NOT superlatives, but standards, if you don't demand the same things then you won't get them, conversely, if you accept deceit, betrayal and disrespect, that is what you will get.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> OK, as long as you aren't anything like Bob Crane. EEEeewwww.


I really don't know anything about him, other than Hogan's Heroes. A$$hole was he?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Badblood said:


> GEEZ, Waz, do you always talk like this? Try to come back down to Earth, will you? I NEVER said anything about perfection, OK? Try to come to grips with the ideas that opinions are subjective. There is a huge difference between cheating and Garden variety errors. Are you really this wishy-washy? Do you have no standards? If you accept everything then you stand for nothing. I want and expect my woman(whoever she turns out to be) to have standards of behavior too. I don't ask for perfection, I ask for basic honesty, love and desire, and these are NOT superlatives, but standards, if you don't demand the same things then you won't get them, conversely, if you accept deceit, betrayal and disrespect, that is what you will get.


You said you wanted honest. I asked if you had ever told a lie. I did not mention perfection.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

What difference does it make? Waz, but OK I'll bite. Yes I have lied. So , what's your point? If you are implying that a simple lie is the same as cheating, you're about as off base as you can get. You don't seem to understand about proportion.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Badblood said:


> I really don't know anything about him, other than Hogan's Heroes. A$$hole was he?


Hardcore sex addict.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Hardcore sex addict.


Well, Hope, so am I, but I keep it to one person at a time. LOL


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> My apologies then and I commend you for your efforts. My primary concern with the post (And many others on the forum) is the negative impact it can have on a BS struggling with recovery. I needed a lot of positive attitude to get through mine and certainly didn't need the naysayers I encountered here and other places that tried to beat me down because they themselves couldn't ****ing hack it to do what was required to succeed. There are a couple of ways a BH can "man up". One is to stand up to a cheating spouse and demand honesty, effort and commitment. The other is to face his own demons, inadequacies and faults, address them be become a better person for it. In my case it was a hybrid.
> 
> Again I commend you for your efforts and my post is general in nature.


:iagree:
mine is a "hybrid", too.

in response to OP. yes i can see my wife and i together in 5 years. and long after that, i hope.
as a matter of fact, i am planning our ten year anniversary vacation.
which, coincidentally, is in approximately 5 years.

granted, i do have a (somewhat) unique perspective having been the WWS as well as the BS.

like amplexor said, it has forced me to face my own demons and inadequacies (that is EXACTLY right), and i have come out stronger for it. i know my marriage is stronger for it.


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## cheese puff (Jul 24, 2011)

every day i wake up and realize the person beside me is human. she is a liar, siner and the love of my life. it never get easy but it is what we have.


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## Samus (Aug 28, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Samus, have you ever been cheated on? Cheated on someone? The reason that I ask is that one can never be 100% certain what they will do until face with a given situation.
> 
> You consider the BS that reconciles with a cheating spouse weak; however, I think sometimes it shows a great deal of strength and fortitude to do this.
> 
> Back to my original question: if you've never experienced infidelity what is it that draws you to this forum?


Count, the last time I checked this was an open forum for any human being to post there opinion and thoughts regarding this particular matter.

I have been divorced and remarried and very happy with my current wife. My previous wife and I didn't last, we married young and it just didn't work out, no cheating. 

Considering your remark about it shows great deal of strength, I can say the same for the opposite. It shows a great deal of strength to leave the love of your life for cheating on you. This is a lose/lose situation and we would just cop out on this one. I just don't believe in taking cheaters back and I have explained my sentinment behind it.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Samus said:


> Count, the last time I checked this was an open forum for any human being to post there *opinion and thoughts* regarding this particular matter.
> 
> I have been divorced and remarried and very happy with my current wife. My previous wife and I didn't last, we married young and it just didn't work out, no cheating.
> 
> Considering your remark about it shows great deal of strength, I can say the same for the opposite. It shows a great deal of strength to leave the love of your life for cheating on you. This is a lose/lose situation and we would just cop out on this one. I just don't believe in taking cheaters back and I have explained my sentinment behind it.


You don't answer the question "what drags you here?" - it's perfectly OK, but I was curious too.

I was glad that the Count asked the question, because it made me think for myself, that it is important to have in mind, if the poster has experienced similar situations, or if he is just expressing... opinions and thoughts.

My main reason for being here is, that there are hundreds of people here with similar experiences - they have walked a mile in my shoes and KNOW what it feels like! I don't have to explain to them, that I feel this and that when facing my wifes infidelity - people here (most of them it appears) just KNOW it.

I was naive once (or more naive, that is) and thought that infidelity was a dealbreaker to me. I believed that and it was easy to do so because i didn't consider for one second that it could actually happen to me in my happy marriage.

Obviously; I have changed my mind and I am trying to make things work with my wife, hoping for the best but at the same time being very realistic about potential outcomes.

Many posters here have experienced the samt ambivalent feelings and thoughts that I have - and I am greatfull to have their reflections on how to make it work.

Do I feel weak? No, certainly not! every time things get rough and I must face my demons, I consider taking the easy way out and just quit. But untill now, I have managed to find the strength and keep on fighting for my family - I refuse to lay there on judgement day thinking that I didn't do everything I possibly could to support the future of my kids. This is not weak in MY opinion. The opposite could be true to other betrayeds.

To OP, I think it is natural to have doubts once in a while. I try very much to live in the present, but at the same time, I miss my dreams 1, 2, 5 years ahead of me. But I guess, or hope, that I can start dreaming again once I have made 100% peace with my life in the present. Slowly getting there.


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## Samus (Aug 28, 2012)

cpacan said:


> You don't answer the question "what drags you here?" - it's perfectly OK, but I was curious too.
> 
> I was glad that the Count asked the question, because it made me think for myself, that it is important to have in mind, if the poster has experienced similar situations, or if he is just expressing... opinions and thoughts.
> 
> ...


You see there is no easy way out, leaving or staying, there both difficult decisions. You can leave the person you loved and shared memories with or you can stick and live with the new memories of cheating. Both take strength and courage. I wouldn't differentiate to much on the difference of leaving and staying. They can be viewed either way in my opinion.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Badblood said:


> Amp, the truth can 't be negative or positive, it just is. I don't think that BS's ( or WS's, for that matter) need to be coddled. What they need is realistic answers not "pie in the sky". I respect those people who are in R, but haved based their R on the truth and a realistic appraisal of their chances. It is a huge dis-service to insult those of us BS's who tried to R but who's WS did not make the same effort. To claim that they "couldn't hack it", is just as wrong as saying that those who chose to R are doormats.


My reference is to those who post here with no advice other than kick his/her ass to the curb. I am speaking of specific individuals who really didn't try, walked away from their spouse and encourage all to do the same. A cheaters always cheat again, **** him/her attitude. When Sara8 corrected me I apologized and commended her for her efforts. My comments in no way are meant to reflect on all who choose not to R or give up on it. Some marriages can't survive and shouldn't.

I do not believe BS's should be coddled, they need honest advice. Few "want" to believe they have been betrayed and some keep the blinders on even though it is undeniable. But when that ugly truth is finally accepted the BS's world implodes and they can, as I did, go to a very dark place. When that happens, encouragement can be more precious than gold. I've never thrown out "pie-in-the-sky" antidotes. R sucks. It was the most confusing, gut wrenching experience of my life. And for 6 months I probably spun my wheels by being a "doormat". I don't deny that. I looked to forums like this for solutions, not wrist patting. But the advice that rang true to me, that I took to heart came from a couple of posters here that had been where I was and had succeeded in R. They were and are my inspiration. One was a BS and one was a WS.

As far as the thought that those who choose to try and R are weak, well I don't buy that as a blanket statement. Some marriages do survive because the BS has lost themselves in the process and become subservient to the WS. I saw it in myself early one. But the recovery of my marriage and wife is an accomplishment that I am very proud of because it was the harder road to take, IMO. If that says I'm week then brand the word wussy on my forehead. I don't care, I've proven my cojones to my self and my wife.

Finally, I have no problem in posters calling me or my opinions out for a spirited discussion. I am a mod but still an active poster on the board and I know my views aren't always in the majority. I'm a big boy, I don't bruise easily.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> My reference is to those who post here with no advice other than kick his/her ass to the curb. I am speaking of specific individuals who really didn't try, walked away from their spouse and encourage all to do the same. A cheaters always cheat again, **** him/her attitude. When Sara8 corrected me I apologized and commended her for her efforts. My comments in no way are meant to reflect on all who choose not to R or give up on it. Some marriages can't survive and shouldn't.
> 
> I do not believe BS's should be coddled, they need honest advice. Few "want" to believe they have been betrayed and some keep the blinders on even though it is undeniable. But when that ugly truth is finally accepted the BS's world implodes and they can, as I did, go to a very dark place. When that happens, encouragement can be more precious than gold. I've never thrown out "pie-in-the-sky" antidotes. R sucks. It was the most confusing, gut wrenching experience of my life. And for 6 months I probably spun my wheels by being a "doormat". I don't deny that. I looked to forums like this for solutions, not wrist patting. But the advice that rang true to me, that I took to heart came from a couple of posters here that had been where I was and had succeeded in R. They were and are my inspiration. One was a BS and one was a WS.
> 
> ...


You understand , Amp, better than some others, that you CAN have a spirited discussion, without personal rancor. I agree with you to a certain extent, but still wouldn't brand those who chose, from the moment they found out about the affair, to "kick the WS to the curb", as not being able to hack it. Like Eastwood says, " A man has to know his limitations". Some people quite simply cannot forgive cheating. It shouldn't be a reflection on their manhood or womanhood any more than if they chose to try R.


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