# Fixers, a BS label



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Maybe it's true, we are as BS, fixers?
My IC said to me "You have had every woman in your life cheat on you, the problem R**** is your a FIXER"
I date and marry broken women, try to fix them, then when they cheat on me I try harder to fix them. 
Do we as BS chose people who need fixing and that will always become WS?
Is it possible to stop this cycle?
I sure hope so......


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I did gf or two. 

Until two more were separated and we had a great time, but I started to recognize a pattern.

Actually then, very early, I just said no.

This is your brain on "fixees".

Too much trouble.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Counselling might be of benefit for you to help you give up being a Knight In Shining Armour.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Counselling might be of benefit for you to help you give up being a Knight In Shining Armour.


You know it.
2 years of it before an epiphany hit me. 
I think a little KiSA will always be present in me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

StillSearching said:


> You know it.
> 2 years of it before an epiphany hit me.
> I think a little KiSA will always be present in me.


Me too, probably.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Trying to fix people; isn't that what codependency is all about? 

I think it's a normal thing to want to resolve a problem, but when the problem isn't within one's realm of authority or responsibility it doesn't work. Another person's life isn't within my realm of authority or responsibility unless it is my dependent child or an infirm person that I am responsible for.

I'm learning that having expectations and not allowing someone to use or abuse me is my true responsibility. If someone is abusing me or our relationship, it's better for me to not stay in the line of fire, but to move away. I used to try so hard to work on relationships with people until I realized that it's not a healthy relationship if I'm the one doing all the work. Relationships are supposed to be mutual. Again, with children it's different, but with adults, we are each responsible for our own part in the relationship for it to work, otherwise it's not healthy. It's not difficult to determine whether or not a person is willing to put in their effort to the relationship or not.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

StillSearching said:


> You know it.
> 2 years of it before an epiphany hit me.
> I think a little KiSA will always be present in me.


You are quite aware of it now though, so going forward you might remind yourself of this time should you experience something similar down the line.

KISA for me was tied to a lack of self worth/confidence. Always wanting to help the 'damsel in distress', feeling good when I helped them, but then realising that I had become the instrument of their healing, instead of themselves. 

Fortunately the past few years have been a slap in the face regarding that, and I have come to realise that if someone looks like they need fixing, I may subtly guide them towards the tools they can use to help themselves, but it is up to them to then take that initiative. 

Relying on someone else, either consciously or not, does nothing for the individual's sense of personal growth. At the same time, it does nothing good for the fixer too, except prolong their need to help someone that either doesn't want, need, or ask for help.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Don't be a KISA, be a BILLC!

I am a fixer of a different flavor!>


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

@StillSearching, what need does a fixer upper fulfill for you?

Looking back on your cheating partners, can you see now what red flags they were waving?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Don't be a KISA, be a BILLC!
> 
> I am a fixer of a different flavor!>


I'm a little afraid to ask this, but what is BILLC?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> I'm a little afraid to ask this, but what is BILLC?


Barbarian In Leather Loin Cloth!:wink2:


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

lol @ConanHub


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Well for me I think I dated the girl who cheated on me because at the time I didn't have the confidence that I could do better. There were a lot of warning signs, her constant need of attention being the most obvious. Her Mom had abandoned the family at a young age. I mean I had no idea what kind of red flags this stuff was at the time, not like I do now, but I know I was concerned. I also wasn't the person I am now. If I knew then what I do now I would have just moved on, or casually dated her. This was my first serious relationship and I was very young, so I didn't have the confidence with experience that I grew to have. 

I think lots of young men start out with the KISA thing. In my mind it goes hand and hand with the Nice Guy stuff. It's all built on insecurity. The nice guy doesn't want to have to take the risk of just straight up telling the women of his affection that he is attracted to her so he covertly tries to be her friend first. All the while hoping that the relationship will just organically grow into love. She has no idea that she has entered into a relationship under false pretenses. In the very rare cases it does turn to love, but as we all know nothing is more attractive the covert passive aggressive dealings. :surprise: 

The KISA is kind of the same thing in my mind. It's this idea that _if I go way above and beyond then maybe I will be worthy enough of love._ The idea that - _ As I normally am, am not worthy of love alone but if I sacrifice enough then maybe I will be. _ I think it happens even in the picking of potential mates. _This women has a lot of problems, but she is really the best I can do and I will just have to be very careful and be extra good to her, "help" her and then all the warning signs I see won't matter._ Another less honorable man will think, this women has a lot of problems and is vulnerable, so she probably will be easy to take advantage of. Which is also why that type of women dates a lot of jerks, because jerks can see she is an easy target. This stuff isn't nice to say but it's true. It's the typical dysfunction attracts dysfunction dynamic that we see all the time here. Healthy people would just not be interested in that much drama in a relationship. Healthy women can sniff out the players and have no time for them, and healthy men aren't going to be willing to take such a risk. 

When it comes down to it both the "Nice Guy" and the KISA fear rejection. 

I will say that I have a natural attraction to the vulnerability that women like this show. I think lots of men do, I see it is the guys version of the bad boy thing that lots of women have. It's that kind of Marilyn Monroe thing. The idea of the challenge. The feeling that I am the man to fix her, I am just going to love her enough and make her strong. I think this is different though then a KISA, still not good though. I mean I may be attracted to her but that doesn't mean I am going to help her move or pay her rent or anything.  As you get older and wiser you realize types of women don't make good wives. Frankly it should only take one experience for you to get that. If you don't then maybe you are a "fixer" and need to work on that.

I guess you could say the best cure for this though was my wife. My wife was and continues to be the most competent person I have ever met as far as day to day life. I admire her more then most people in my life. And in my professional life I have met many women like her so they are out there. She was a different kind of challenge. That being, I going to have to be the best me if I am going to be with this women. I hope she feels the same way about me as well. Frankly this is a much better dynamic. 

My wife doesn't need me. I think she would say I bring a lot of benefit and joy to her life but she doesn't need me, and I would say the same of her. We are together because we want to be together not because we need to be. That in my mind is probably the best place to be in a relationship because it keeps both of you strong enough to be honest. Both your actions are taken out of a position of strength. 

I think meeting a true women can quickly cure you of interest in these types of girls that a "fixer" will be attracted to.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm really into ole fashion submissive women. 
I now have one. Just worried she's broke in some way that I can't see yet.
I'm sure some women here would think "ole fashion submissive woman" she's broke already. LOL


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Barbarian In Leather Loin Cloth!:wink2:


Alright, already! We're going to need pictures to believe that. :wink2:


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> I'm really into ole fashion submissive women.
> I now have one. Just worried she's broke in some way that I can't see yet.
> I'm sure some women here would think "ole fashion submissive woman" she's broke already. LOL


Some might think you're the one who is broke.:wink2:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Alright, already! We're going to need pictures to believe that. :wink2:


If this new diet works the way I think it will, I will put a pic up in my album for a day or two!:smile2:


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Some might think you're the one who is broke.:wink2:


HAHA....yup!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Barbarian In Leather Loin Cloth!:wink2:


As with a lot of my posts, I'm only half joking here.

The difference between me and a KISA is, I am good and I will help but I am no fool, I place no woman on a pedestal, I am not above spanking brats, I am not taken lightly, I am absolutely dangerous and it can be felt even though I would not harm a woman, there is a little tension about crossing my boundaries.

I expect and require actions and results from women, even women who need help or rescuing.

I treat women like equals and I am not afraid to learn from them even if I am stronger in most areas of my life.

I am also not afraid to put an out of sorts woman in place or be put in place if I am out of sorts.

I am confident enough to run around in a loin cloth both figuratively and literally.

I sometimes expect a woman to rescue me as well, otherwise, what damn good is she?

I never understood why Flash Gordon was so hung up on Dale?

The dark haired tigress, daughter of the ruler of the known universe, was far more attractive to me.

She faced unthinkable dangers, defied the most powerful man in existence and saved Flash several times.

Dale screamed and fainted most of the time....


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> If this new diet works the way I think it will, I will put a pic up in my album for a day or two!:smile2:


I was just joshing you. :smile2:


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> If this new diet works the way I think it will, I will put a pic up in my album for a day or two!:smile2:


You could always photoshop your head on my pic. 
You know ....for the ladies.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

I think there is a difference between KISA and fixing
someone who is " broken" Why are they broken ?
Maybe their picker was bad and have not found the
right person until now. KISA or saving someone never
works

During my younger days I tried that, once and never
again !! Before I met my wife I knew a very smart and attractive
young women. She always was attracted to the worst type of 
people. She would break up with someone and then go straight 
back to them or someone like them This was my one and only time 
being friend zoned. The last I heard about her she was on her 3rd 
marriage and four kids. That one was failing also. That was many years
ago, sad really. People have to want to save themselves first, before 
you can.

Conanhub 100 % correct

Never place anyone on a pedestal, when they fall off
it usually hurts more.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

One Eighty said:


> You have to realize that perhaps you are not picking these women. *Perhaps they are picking you*. They see you as a mark. They can tell that you will do their bidding and forgive whatever heinous things they do to you. There are predators out there with high heels and hearts of steel. Don't fall for it.
> 
> I know that there are likely many more predatory men praying upon women who want to and think they can, fix their man, but I'm just saying it does cut both ways.


That's how nature works. 
Women pick men as mates. 
Then men decide to marry or not. 
But I got figgered out now. 
But I think it's WS are broken. 
BS try to fix them.

Women select men. That makes them nature, because nature is what selects. And you can say "Well it's only symbolic that women are nature", it's like no, it's not just symbolic. The woman is the gatekeeper to reproductive success. And you can't get more like nature than that, in fact it's the very definition of nature. -JP


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> That's how nature works.
> Women pick men as mates.
> Then men decide to marry or not.
> But I got figgered out now.
> ...


Or BS are broken BECAUSE they try to fix them.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think KISAs come in a few different flavors. All of them may be cheated on, but they might also be the ones cheating. 

I've known men who were simply enthralled with damaged women, in the way small children love bedraggled kittens. They tend to believe they can save, fix, heal, their damsels with the power of their love. And they usually believe they've succeeded, despite all evidence to the contrary. They're always shocked when she proves herself to be exactly who she was when they met. These guys "never saw it coming" - not with the first damsel, nor with the second, third, sixth or tenth. 

I've also known guys who chose damaged women intending to love them to wellness, and then were confused and angry when they couldn't. These guys tend to get mad when their partners aren't getting fixed enough, quickly enough, for them. _What do you mean my pure shining love didn't instantly fix your decades of emotional problems?!?! Crazy *****!_ Followed by weeks or months of back and forth drama where he can't quit being angry at her for being exactly who she was when they met.

Some KISAs are attracted to neediness in every woman except their partner. These are the ones whose partners have it pretty well together, leaving them little to do on the knightly front. They get bored. There's not enough drama. They need more crazy to "fix". So they get to chatting up single moms, "former" addicts, the perpetually financially troubled, or the "just out of a bad relationship" other women they run across. And all to often, Captain Save-a-Ho there pretty quickly winds up in love, and in bed of course, with one of these poor damsels. While his own wife is at home keeping real life together. 

Then there's the type who _needs_ the damsel to _be_ distressed and needs her to _remain_ that way. He doesn't want to actually fix his partners, he just wants perpetual credit for "saving" them. And he's certainly not down for them "fixing" themselves. And he's not above doing whatever it takes to keep that dynamic going. He's claimed martyrdom, so if it takes a little verbal or emotional abuse, or more, to keep his partner in the role of distressed damsel who could never make it without him, well then so be it.

None of these are healthy ways to conduct a relationship. The point is not that all fixers get cheated on, it's that all unhealthy people have unhealthy relationships. Figure out how to be an emotionally healthy person. Only then will you attract, recognize and be able to have a healthy relationship with, another emotionally healthy person. You cannot fix other people. But you can and should fix yourself.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> I'm really into ole fashion submissive women.
> I now have one. Just worried she's broke in some way that I can't see yet.
> I'm sure some women here would think "ole fashion submissive woman" she's broke already. LOL


Many people have a wrong idea of what being submissive means. Its not always about being a little mouse who wont say booo to a goose, it can take great strength to be submissive in a healthy way. 
After all in a sense we are all submissive to people. Our boss at work. The police. A judge. Our parents if we are not adults yet.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Rowan said:


> The point is not that all fixers get cheated on, it's that all unhealthy people have unhealthy relationships.


I agree, I think that's exactly right, and people are generally attracted to other people at about the same level of mental/emotional health as them.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Many people have a wrong idea of what being submissive means. Its not always about being a little mouse who wont say booo to a goose, it can take great strength to be submissive in a healthy way.
> After all in a sense we are all submissive to people. Our boss at work. The police. A judge. Our parents if we are not adults yet.


I agree the submissive woman is a lost art. 
Well sought after by real men. 
Glad I found mine. She's awesome!
She has never had kids because she was not going to have them out of wedlock.
Now she can't have them. 
High price she paid to be honorable.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> I agree the submissive woman is a lost art.
> Well sought after by real men.


And true Scotsman...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

One Eighty said:


> I sense a lot of sexism on this thread. All this talk about men trying to fix or save a woman. What about the other side of the coin? How many women have you seen picking a "bad boy" to try to reform him, to save him from himself. Women do this for the same reasons listed that men do this. With the same predictable results.
> 
> The ones fixers try to "save" are often predators that can sense the brokenness in the "fixer" that will cause them to try to "save" them. They see it a mile away and take advantage of it for as long as they can get away with it. They have no intention of changing or being "saved." They may give the illusion that they will change to string along the "fixer" but then, surprise, they remain the same.
> 
> When the fixer finally realizes this, then the predator moves on to the next broken person, the next "fixer" they can find. Both sexes do this.


While I agree with your statement, this thread is about a male, KISA, so we are addressing this from the male half of the equation.

There are plenty of female equivalent threads and they're addressed accordingly.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Well picking cheaters as SOs could just simply be a bout of bad luck...hell they say about 40% of people in relationships have an affair so given that is not too unreasonable to run into a few cheating ones back to back


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Well picking cheaters as SOs could just simply be a bout of bad luck...hell they say about *40% of people in relationships have an affair* so given that is not too unreasonable to run into a few cheating ones back to back


I think it's more 60+% of relationships have a WS in them.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> I think it's more 60+% of relationships have a WS in them.


This makes me think... given that a lot of folks on this board view a wayward as morally awful, do we believe that 60+% of people are depraved?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> This makes me think... given that a lot of folks on this board view a wayward as morally awful, do we believe that 60+% of people are depraved?


I believe everyone is a moral mess at their core.

Those that choose to control themselves are considered moral.

If that many people cheat, it simply means that many people did not choose to control themselves about a pretty important part of their lives.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

One Eighty said:


> I sense a lot of sexism on this thread. All this talk about men trying to fix or save a woman. What about the other side of the coin? How many women have you seen picking a "bad boy" to try to reform him, to save him from himself. Women do this for the same reasons listed that men do this. With the same predictable results.
> 
> The ones fixers try to "save" are often predators that can sense the brokenness in the "fixer" that will cause them to try to "save" them. They see it a mile away and take advantage of it for as long as they can get away with it. They have no intention of changing or being "saved." They may give the illusion that they will change to string along the "fixer" but then, surprise, they remain the same.
> 
> When the fixer finally realizes this, then the predator moves on to the next broken person, the next "fixer" they can find. Both sexes do this.


It would be interesting to enumerate the different dynamics that cause a man or a woman to choose a fixer upper.

When I was younger I suffered from middle class guilt..... that is, knowing that I never worried how I was going to pay next semester's tuition or whatever I chose or got accepted to do over the summer.

The problem I found is that guy's aren't appreciative when you help them out. Usually, that meant for me, paying for them. One guy I figured out was trying to help his estranged supposedly ex girlfriend off my back.

I also tried to be generous in spirit. If I was dating a guy who was not knowledgeable, aware , whatever, I would overlook it while trying to bring him up to speed. I was dating one guy who asked me, "How was the ballet? A lot of singing and dancing?" I told him ballet only consists of dancing. He shot back with "I know all about ballet because I used to date a ballet dancer." Oh dear, and I should have guessed that he was a horse whisperer too. It is also not lost on me that he may have wanted to suggest that he has dated skinnier women too. Alright then.

I finally decided that if I was going to engage in charity it would not be in my personal relationships. That means a guy has to be financially self-sufficient whether or not he has dependants and he needs to be as smart, knowledgeable and cultured as I am. And have some humility for those rare moments for when he is not knowledgeable.

I suppose on thing that is different is that since men are expected to have more money than the woman, then the red flags are more subtle.


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