# Divorce and suicide in men



## notreadytoquit

I saw this on CNN tonight. I thought it was interesting especially the comments from people below the article.

Cafferty File: Tell Jack how you really feel Blog Archive - Why does divorce make men more suicidal than women? « - Blogs from CNN.com


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## tryingtocope24

The thing I do not understand is why is it when a spouse wants a divorce and the other does not and it goes to court the woman always gets the better settlement. I do not want a divorce but my wife does. She will get a large house on a large lake front property and a new suv all payed for. I will get a work truck and a condo worth 1/4 of the house if I am lucky I will get my small ira and and a couple stocks. I will pay child support and more than likely alimony. Who is that fair. If they can work then split everything 50/50 split the child support and call it a day. Sounds fair. Mind you my kids are in there teens. I am living away from home now and pay all the bills the kids car insurance and my rent, utilitys ect.
I am not yet divorced and i got the shaft already.
They get to move on and look for a new man while we can't afford to live so finding a new mate is impossible who wants a broke obligated partner. Sorry but I will NEVER EVER get married again because I don't find a cardboard box a comfortable living space.


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## sisters359

> If they can work then split everything 50/50 split the child support and call it a day.


The reality is, women who are SAHMs have sacrificed earning potential, so it will never be "even" without some court-initiated balancing.

I agree, however, that EVERYTHING should be split 50/50--it is wrong to take kids from their fathers (really little ones may need a year or two with mom at home and dad paying her as the child care provider during his work day, but he should have as much time as possible). And it would be wrong to throw a mom out into the work place without some time to develop her skills, and without continuing to factor in the sacrifices she made to her earning power when she agreed to stay home while he worked. 

BUT--are men willing to give up some of their earning power to fulfill children's needs? If a child is off of school at 3 pm and mom is usually home, will dad start taking off at 3, or will he shuffle the kid to child care? Is that in the BEST INTEREST of the child? 

As men take more interest in parenting 50/50, the older models might break down. Imagine if two people working 6 hours each could earn as much, and have the same benefits as, one working 8 and another working 4. There are other ways to organize life than the "traditional" nuclear family model (which is actually only a relatively new configuration), but it will take people--men and women--interested in change to make it happen.

Still, I think it is really so sad that ANYONE thinks life ends with divorce--it doesn't, and millions of people find that out each year. Given the 50% divorce rate, there must be a lot of men out there who don't commit suicide--and have found they are doing just fine and might even be happy. In fact, studies show that 70% of people report being as happy, or happier, after divorce.


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## voivod

sisters359 said:


> The reality is, women who are SAHMs have sacrificed earning potential, so it will never be "even" without some court-initiated balancing.


i wonder how much earning potential was lost by the working man in pursuit of providing for his family at any cost?



sisters359 said:


> In fact, studies show that 70% of people report being as happy, or happier, after divorce.


cite the "studies" please. because i'm not sure that one exists. unless "preference bias" was not screened out.


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## lastinline

The "reality" sisters is that every situation is unique, and thus it is dangerous and irresponsible to make sweeping generalities. My personal experience tells me that decent men are generally and regularly F*cked in legal situations by the courts. That the law and truth are not necessarily positively coorelated, but once again that's only my experience.

As I sit in a hotel room preparing for a week of intensive training on the spine at a university I left well over 10 years ago, my wife is asleep in my house. A house I soley pay for, and am wrongly prevented from returning to by a false allegation. 

I was up at 3:51 this morning. My wife I imagine, about 6:45 or so. It's 11:45 pm and I am finally taking a moment to decompress after working in a clinic all day and driving down to L.A.. Her typical day, 3 hours at the gym, lunch, and then home by one for Oprah. oh, she also has to open a box and punch some buttons for dinner. Poor creature. 

My meals today: a carton of myoplex, a cup of myo lean, a couple of apples, some Chai tea, handfull or 3 of mixed nuts, loads of coffee, a couple of protein bars, and a huge thing of green goodness. Everything a growing boy needs I'm sure. Hers, I can only imagine as I'm not currently allowed within a 100 yards of her. 

So please, I am so sick of the whole "women who are SAHMs have sacrificed earning potential, so it will never be "even" without some court-initiated balancing." My wife doesn't have the earning potential I do because she never got off her @ss to develop it. I would happily walk away from my practice today and for good, if it meant I was sleeping in the same house with my kids tonight. So please do not make it sound like men are somehow "lucky" we get to work outside the home. We're lucky we get to pee standing up, but please what I wouldn't give for my dear soon to be ex-wife to be stuck with the burden of picking up all the bills.

I have no complaint against you, but I sense that you have been wronged Sisters and to at least a moderate extent are still bearing some of the wounds. I understand well. I've been there as too, and for the record I am not bitter about my divorce, only the partiality of the system towrds women. 

I would not argue for a moment that there are dead beat dads in the world. I have read enough of your posts sisters to know you are a very bright and capable woman. Therefore, I know you are sensible enough to realize that there must also then be "dead beat moms" in the world as well. After all the universe craves balance.

In short sisters359 all I am saying is that not every woman deserves court assisted balancing of incomes. To be blunt, some just deserve a kick in the @ss. I would readily say the same for some men. 

I just wish that the courts would look at each situation as more of an unique microcosm and rule for a change based on what was actually right, rather than on what is just customary.

LIL


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## tryingtocope24

Sisters: I am not ganging up on you in any way but LASTINLINE: You could not have said it better. Every situation is different. And ever state has different rules. If I could only get my wife to move to maine for a while I would be better off.


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## notreadytoquit

Well I left a career that I had worked in for two years so I can move to a different country so my husband can get his dream job at a young age for his position. I am not allowed to work in this country because of the visa he is on and to get one on my own is impossible. So I am a SAHM and we also have a 15 month old boy(so we don't pay daycare). If I had it my way I would work too. 

I do understand that some SAHM are all about going shopping, to the gym, getting their nails/hair done. I am not one of them. I actually have ambitions. But still now I am in a situation where my husband is cheating on me with a coworker(my husband is her superior). And yes, I still cook,(home made food every day I don't do frozen dinners)I clean, do groceries, make sure all child's appointments are scheduled, pay some bills, take the car for service, deal with the repairmen etc.

Even though money is not issue in our family I still feel bad about not being able to work and provide for myself. Now if we end up divorcing, I would go back to my home country and I would have to take a real job(the job I left was 100% commissions). Two careers ago, that job I can do too but now requires to pass an exam that takes about 4 months to study for and the pay is not that great. And on top of that I still have a child. He says if it comes to that he will help financially(which I don't think he will screw me on that one)


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## lastinline

I am really sorry to read your story notreadytoquit. However, it really serves to illustrate my original point in that every situation is unique, and needs to be carefully looked at on it's own merits/demerits.

CA is really into no fault divorce. However, in reading your situation it becomes readily apparent that your husband appears to be the primary factor leading up to your marital disharmony. In my case, it was my wife. 

Her own mother rates it as 80/20 her favor.
However, it doesn't matter what her mom or I think; only some judge who isn't impartial enough to actually weigh the facts and render a fair decision.

LIL


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## Scannerguard

I wouldn't jump on sisters too much.

What the courts demand you pay for child support isn't that much and as a man, you are paying a little more than a "babysitter" rate when you go out and work. So, depending on your perspective it's favored towards women but a lot of courts are of the opinion that child support isn't enough.

Now, as far as alimony, that's a seperate kind of topic.

If you are a high paid cardiothoracic surgeon and your wife a medical assistant and you expect that you shouldn't have to pay your wife a dime of alimony because well, she should get off her butt and work, you are just simply being unrealistic and it would just do you better to accept a lower lifestyle with happiness and negotiate it like a business transaction.

there are different kinds of alimony and if i was in that situation, i would negotiate a one time payout alimony (forget the name) - a lump sum alimony that allowed her to pursue an education over the monthly payment/albatross alimony.

For instance, if you are on the hook for $1000/month in alimony in addition to child support until the age of emancipation. I would offer her a lump sum of $50,000. 

Dangle it in front of her like a nice juicy carrot.

It's a way of cutting your losses on the albatross around your neck.

Basically you ask, "What's it going to cost to get rid of you?"

Every woman has her price.

I think that's a healthier way financially and emotionally of looking at it.

My girlfriend has a saying (she's been divorced 2x) - "there's a reason why divorces cost so much: because they are worth it."

Wise words to remember.


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## morningdew

Yes, it's different case by case I have to agree with that. 

Notreadytoquit, I can totally relate to you and how you are feeling. I too had once left my country to be with my H, I left my job to pursue my happily ever after. When his first affairs took place in China, I was in a position where I have no friends, no family, no money than what he gave me, no support system whatsoever so I guess that's why I stayed other than I really still love him. 

Now, I'm back in my home country and there's no way I could go back to the States (where we got married) due to my green card being expired to file for divorce, I was shocked to say the least when I contacted local law firms that have experiences dealing with 'expat' divorce. Basically they're telling me it's doable with the price tag of $5,000 - $10,000. Now that is a lot of money that I will never afford not even with borrowing left and right up and down. It's a little unfair for me since I thought he's the one cheated on me more than once and I will have to pay that much to get divorce? 

All I'm asking or will be seeking is child support that's all. 

Well what do you know life is really unfair at times.


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## Scannerguard

PS:

LIL - I know my writings seem rather Machivellean. I don't know what to say to that other than in divorce, you have to use any leverage you can to gain a tactical advantage against your opponent.

I would like to say we live in a perfect world where you wife would say, "Gee, me and kids don't need quite that much. . .your presence is more welcome." but that's just not the real world.

My stb-x has basically insinuated that the child support I am paying or to be paying is "chump change." Basically said that to me. I told her how much I resent that and how would she like to pay me 30% of her income. Of course, no reply to that.

But there is no reasoning sometimes with your opponent. Remember - as the non-custodial parent, you are gaining freedom from the daily labor of childrearing. She does deserve compensation for that.

You are gaining freedom - freedom to marry the woman you should have married in the first place. Freedom to start a second job. Freedom to start a new business. Freedom to go to Mexico for a fling. And that's a hard thing to put a price on.

I miss my kids too; I feel for you.


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## tryingtocope24

This is a great post because we are seeing all sides and opinons. But you are making it sound like it's always the man that wants to leave the stay at home mom. My w the sahm that works when she feels like it cause she could now wants to find herself. I want to fix what she thinks is broken but her mind is make up. So if she gets a large house on a lake with a new suv thats paid for and I end up with a condo with a mortgage and I pay 100% child support not just 50% should I have to pay spousal support. I don't think so but that is my opinon. What do you think. the kids are 13 and 17


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## sirch

I may have gained "freedom" when I divorced, but I would gladly take a sound marriage and additional time with my kid over freedom. 
Yes I pay child support, yes I have my kid most of the weekends, (mainly due to the ex turning into a 21 yr old party princess) and I am ok with that! I document all the extra time I have and money spent that should be covered by child support. So when the time comes and he wants to live with me, I will have the upper hand and gain full custody!


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## sisters359

Here's a citation to a discussion of the study--you can use the information to find the actual study itself (which is massive, as you can imagine) if you want:

Inside UVA

LIL, you missed my point. If you agreed, during the marriage, that she would be a stay-at-home mom, then it is totally unreasonable to expect her ever to catch up to your earnings. On the other hand, should she be permitted to continue earning NO income (beyond the child care rate you pay her) once all the kids are at school? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Some courts now give a woman a certain amount of time to get ready for employment, and then alimony drops or disappears-depending on the length of marriage, the earning differential, etc. 

For the record, even though I stayed out of the work force for 10 years raising kids and am the one who made career sacrifices for our family, I refused to accept one penny of spousal support, and child support is the bare minimum allowed by our state's legal system--based on incomes and number of kids. I receive $250/month. When I get a new job and earn that difference, I will end the child support arrangement. (My current job, I took in part b/c it was better for the family; I could have earned more but my ex wanted me to take this job so he would not have to make any changes in his career plans) Oh, and in those 10 years, I worked on my graduate degree and worked part-time, the whole time. I wanted to make sure I would never be dependent on anyone--and it has definitely paid off, now that my marriage has ended.

Many men rage against their ex-spouse when the decisions made within the marriage were mutual--and how many of you consider that the business environment makes it impossible for 2 parents to earn well AND have kids? Why don't more couples take part-time jobs so they each contribute 1/2 the income? Because two people working 4 hours each do not have anywhere near the earning potential and benefits opportunities that one person does, working full-time. Is that your spouse's fault? Of course not.


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## Seraphim56

I am over 60 and all I see waiting on me is the concrete slab underneath the interstate. This is not what I worked for all of my life. I could have been the worse butt-hole in the world and I would not have ended any worse then this.


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## barbados

Seraphim56 said:


> I am over 60 and all I see waiting on me is the concrete slab underneath the interstate. This is not what I worked for all of my life. I could have been the worse butt-hole in the world and I would not have ended any worse then this.


SERAPHIM56 I saw your other post also in another old (zombie) thread.

You could get help here and support if you were to start your own thread and maybe share some of your story.


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