# 6 months and not at all what I expected



## mrfixit (Jul 12, 2011)

I figure the best way to figure something out after trying everything I can think of is soliciting the help of those who have gone before.....
I'm not posting this to belittle my wife and I'm not going to exaggerate anything, I'm just going to tell it how it is.

My wife and I have just hit the 6 month mark in our marriage. Since the beginning, its been kind of rocky. Everyone says the first year is the hardest, however, I don't think it should be like this. 
Before getting married, we didn't live together or sleep with each other, or anyone else for that matter. We had our first married argument the second day of our honeymoon, which was sex-related. In the weeks that followed, we argued daily almost, which never happened before we tied the knot. I'm a pretty easy going guy, and I don't like to argue, but it seemed as though I would do something to provoke her enough to blow up on me. She threatened leaving me at least once a week in her temper tantrums. I really tried everything to not upset her, and it has gotten to the point that I feel as though I have to tip-toe around my own house. 
She also would complain to me about being depressed. I thought that maybe moving into a new house, away from her friends and family was causing it, but every time I would ask why she felt depressed or what I could do to help, she either would not say anything, leave the room, or change the subject. This would happen at least once a day for the first 3 months. 
More recently(2 months ago) after going 2 weeks without saying anything about being depressed she started telling me she wished I was different. She wished I acted different. So I gave it a try. I tried to act in such a way that she would be happy with me, but instead she started using the phrase, "I hate you" anytime I did something she didn't like. Shortly after, she woke up one morning crying. I was getting ready for work, and ran to her side to see what was wrong. She paused before saying she missed (for privacy sake we'll call him Sam, one of her ex's)Sam, and it made her sad. I asked her to repeat what she said, not really able to believe what I heard. I tried to be understanding and asked her why she felt that way, and her response was that I just wasn't him. At that point, I got angry. I didn't yell, or even raise my voice. I talked sternly and short, and told her of course I wasn't him. I am nothing like him, nor would I try to be like him. I finished getting ready for work and left without another word. I didn't talk to her all day, and continued to give her the silent treatment when I got home. She finally came in to apologize, but it wasn't what I was looking for. She said she was sorry for saying what she did. I asked her if she was sorry for feeling what she felt or acting the way she did, to which she said no. We started talking and in the conversation, she insulted everything from my manhood to my family. At the end of that one, we ended up sleeping in separate rooms for the night. The next day we had family activities to go to, and of course we acted like nothing happened. Well, since then, she continues to act like nothing happened, however, she continually shy's away from any physical affection I try to give her, any intimacy is far and few between(not that it was that frequent before)and it feels as thought she only does it out of obligation. The last time we did the act, she was straight faced and actually turned the tv on. When I have confronted her about it, she has said she doesn't like sex, I just don't turn her on, and she thinks the only reason I wanted to get married was for sex because that's all I think about. 
I am at a loss. I feel like she is not the same person I fell in love with. I have tried everything I can think of to make her happy. I take her to high end restaurants, clothing retailers, and even bought her a car. I can't keep that up, though, I just don't make enough money at the moment to treat her to all of life's little luxuries. I pay for everything, rent, utilities, cell phone, insurance. She has all the freedom she could ever want, without having to worry about bills, but continually says she feels trapped. This is not what marriage should be.


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## triniti (Jul 2, 2011)

Your wife sounds either very young/immature or unstable. May I ask what were the things about her that made you fall in love in the first place, and how did these things change? How long did you two date before you were married? 

If you really want it to work, perhaps an honest sit-down with her may help, but it may take some maturity on her part to realize that the way she is reacting is hurting you.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

So you have bought her things and have tried to be physically affectionate with her? Have you tried doing things for her (like the dishes), spending time with her, or giving her phsyical affection without even a hint of it going sexual? Have you heard of Gary Chapman's "The Five Love Languages"? That might be a good book for the two of you to read together.

If she is saying she has depression, maybe she needs to see her doctor and get on some medications. And yes, the first year of marriage is usually a huge adjustment.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

mrfixit said:


> Before getting married, we didn't live together or sleep with each other, or anyone else for that matter.


She didn't sleep with anyone else...that you know of. Sorry to say she was probably sleeping with Sam and you didnt know it. She married you because you were a better option financially, or Sam is already attached.



mrfixit said:


> We had our first married argument the second day of our honeymoon, which was sex-related.


You should have been in the honeymoon phase if you hadnt slept together yet, but you werent because she was thinking and missing Sam.



mrfixit said:


> In the weeks that followed, we argued daily almost, which never happened before we tied the knot. I'm a pretty easy going guy, and I don't like to argue, but it seemed as though I would do something to provoke her enough to blow up on me. She threatened leaving me at least once a week in her temper tantrums. I really tried everything to not upset her, and it has gotten to the point that I feel as though I have to tip-toe around my own house.


She has withdrawn from you sexually and constantly starting fights. These are two red flags of an affair. 



mrfixit said:


> She also would complain to me about being depressed.


She was depressed because she misses her OM (Sam).



mrfixit said:


> More recently(2 months ago) after going 2 weeks without saying anything about being depressed she started telling me she wished I was different. She wished I acted different. So I gave it a try. I tried to act in such a way that she would be happy with me, but instead she started using the phrase, "I hate you" anytime I did something she didn't like.


Because she wanted you to be like Sam. I'm sure you know this now.



mrfixit said:


> Shortly after, she woke up one morning crying. I was getting ready for work, and ran to her side to see what was wrong. She paused before saying she missed (for privacy sake we'll call him Sam, one of her ex's)Sam, and it made her sad.


And now some truth comes out. Don't believe that you've heard everything yet.



mrfixit said:


> Well, since then, she continues to act like nothing happened, however, she continually shy's away from any physical affection I try to give her, any intimacy is far and few between(not that it was that frequent before)and it feels as thought she only does it out of obligation. The last time we did the act, she was straight faced and actually turned the tv on.


She doesn't like sex with you because you are not her Sam.



mrfixit said:


> When I have confronted her about it, she has said she doesn't like sex, I just don't turn her on, and she thinks the only reason I wanted to get married was for sex because that's all I think about.


Its not like she doesnt like sex, she just doesnt like sex with you. She wants Sam.



mrfixit said:


> I have tried everything I can think of to make her happy. I take her to high end restaurants, clothing retailers, and even bought her a car. I can't keep that up, though, I just don't make enough money at the moment to treat her to all of life's little luxuries. I pay for everything, rent, utilities, cell phone, insurance. She has all the freedom she could ever want, without having to worry about bills, but continually says she feels trapped. This is not what marriage should be.


It doesnt matter what you do, her heart belongs to Sam. You better head over to the Coping with Infidelity forum, because at the minimum she is in an emotional affair (EA) with this Sam. I suspect if you did some invesigating, you will probably find that she has been in contact with him since before you were married to her. The signs and her attitude says she is cheating on you.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

lordmayhem, that is a lot of assumptions. OP also tells us his wife is presenting many things which appear to be depression related. If her problems are related to depression, confronting her with cheating (although unfounded) could be disastrous.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Riverside MFT said:


> So you have bought her things and have tried to be physically affectionate with her? Have you tried doing things for her (like the dishes), spending time with her, or giving her phsyical affection without even a hint of it going sexual? Have you heard of Gary Chapman's "The Five Love Languages"? That might be a good book for the two of you to read together.
> 
> If she is saying she has depression, maybe she needs to see her doctor and get on some medications. And yes, the first year of marriage is usually a huge adjustment.


:iagree:

_The Five Love Languages_ by Gary Chapman is very helpful. Those techniques are useful when dealing with all human beings--family, friends, employees, children, etc. It will boost your people skills!


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## mrfixit (Jul 12, 2011)

triniti said:


> Your wife sounds either very young/immature or unstable. May I ask what were the things about her that made you fall in love in the first place, and how did these things change? How long did you two date before you were married?
> 
> If you really want it to work, perhaps an honest sit-down with her may help, but it may take some maturity on her part to realize that the way she is reacting is hurting you.


She is 22, I am 25. We dated steadily for a year before I asked her to marry me. She was very fun and spontaneous, ready at a moments notice to go do anything. Lately, she sits at her computer all day. She has no job, nor any desire to get one. I'm very active and love to go wakeboarding in the summer, snowboarding in the winter, hiking, running, pretty much any thing. She used to do that stuff with me, but now she says she hates it, never liked it to begin with. Recently during one of our arguments, she insisted I was never allowed to do any the activities I enjoy because she doesn't like them and I shouldn't have fun without her. But she is not interested in doing a n y t h I n g.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dojo (Jul 4, 2011)

Hmm.. this sounds like she's really doing all the best to ruin this thing. I can't understand how she can't "like" stuff you too enjoyed here. If she's not doing the least efforts to keep this relationship going, I don't see why you should put everything for the both of you just to have her say "you're not Sam". Gee, that's inconsiderate, and this is me speaking nicely


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

827Aug said:


> lordmayhem, that is a lot of assumptions. OP also tells us his wife is presenting many things which appear to be depression related. If her problems are related to depression, confronting her with cheating (although unfounded) could be disastrous.


:iagree:


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

mrfixit said:


> Lately, she sits at her computer all day.


with sam?
waiting for sam?



> maybe she needs to see her doctor and get on some medications.


yes, get her on meds...
they do awesome wonderful things for a relationship.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

827Aug said:


> lordmayhem, that is a lot of assumptions. OP also tells us his wife is presenting many things which appear to be depression related. If her problems are related to depression, confronting her with cheating (although unfounded) could be disastrous.


There are quite a few red flags of an affair too.
1. Sexual withdrawal from him, in addition to fighting about sex the 2nd day of marriage. Red flag.
2. Constant arguments for no reason, no matter what he does to please her. Red flag. Its not uncommon for the WS to start fights with their betrayed spouse, so they can justify to themselves so they can contact their affair partner. 
3. Wanting him to act in a different way, then she admits later that she misses her SAM and wants him to act like him. Red flag. How is this depression related.
4. She says she's depressed. Thats the only thing I can see that might indicate depression. But considering she admitted she misses her ex-bf, that could be why she's depressed.
5. She openly admits she misses her ex-bf and wishes mrfixit was her ex-bf. This is a huge red flag. I don't see at all why this is depression related.
6. She sits at the computer all day. What is she doing on the computer all day while he is at work?

I'm not saying mrfixit shoudl accuse her of cheating. All I'm saying is that he should be doing some investigating, and that there is probable cause to think that she is still in contact with this ex-bf. He shouldnt confront her anyway without proof.

It just seems so convenient nowadays to throw out the "depression" excuse to make sense of someone's behavior. She certainly doesnt behave as a brand new bride who just married the love of her life, but she does seem to act as a woman involved in an EA at the very least. Sorry, its just hard to picture a new bride telling her new husband that she wishes he was her ex not even 6 months into the marriage.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

Get her out of the house and into a job. I agree with the others who suggest something is going on with the computer. That one fact along with her statement that you are not "Sam", is a red flag that she has much too much time on her hands and is likely hanging out on the Internet all day behaving like she shouldn't.

I don't care if you made a million dollars each year, that girl is too young to be sitting at home in front of a computer all day. Did she sit in front of the computer all day before you were married?? No, she participated in the things you liked.

For some reason she is bored and not happy with the marriage.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Sorry, but what lordmayhem had to say here was completely in line with my initial reaction to the OP. Yes it could prove out to be not true, but for gawd sakes, she *TOLD* him that her problem with him is that "He's not Sam". So at the very least she's having a 1-way EA. Not likely it's one-way, sorry. She's got all the opportunity (enabled by him btw), all the desire (openly expressed), and plenty of the signs (see lm's #1 thru #6 spelling it out)... all 6 months into a marriage.

Depression, sure it could be. Depression caused by her feeling locked in a marriage she doesn't want, because "He's not Sam', sounds more like the case to me. And he's supposed to do what, get her on meds, wash the dishes and avoid tackling the fact that his wife wishes he were a different man, her ex-bf? Because Sam would? Screw that. Yes he's got things he can contribute differently (and OP stop trying so hard with buying her things; it obviously isn't working anyway), but it's got to all start with a real and open 2-way discussion (calmly), getting into heavy MC immediately, and her deciding she even wants him there to try with her.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So who does the chores around the house? And what was the reason that there was no sex prior to marriage? There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm wondering whose decision it was, and why? And what was the honeymoon argument about?

One thing you might consider is simply start living your life. Keep doing the things that give you pleasure. If she choses to sit around and mope, that's her decision. But the only person you can make happy is yourself.

And consider installing a key logger on her computer. I'm not saying she's having an affair, but it seems there's enough signs to warrant some investigation.

Btw, does she interact with her friends and family?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris H. (Jan 27, 2007)

Sounds like some depression with some unhealthy personality traits that get exacerbated by her being depressed, the whole "Sam" thing could have also just been her trying to be hurtful. Get her to a psychiatrist and a licensed therapist.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

mrfixit said:


> She is 22, I am 25. We dated steadily for a year before I asked her to marry me. She was very fun and spontaneous, ready at a moments notice to go do anything. Lately, she sits at her computer all day. She has no job, nor any desire to get one. I'm very active and love to go wakeboarding in the summer, snowboarding in the winter, hiking, running, pretty much any thing. She used to do that stuff with me, but now she says she hates it, never liked it to begin with. Recently during one of our arguments, she insisted I was never allowed to do any the activities I enjoy because she doesn't like them and I shouldn't have fun without her. But she is not interested in doing a n y t h I n g.


Okay, so there seems to be a lot going on here. 1) She was relatively young when she got married and may not have been completely ready for marriage. 2) Marriage is a huge adjustment to single life. 3)The sexual relationship takes a lot of time to develop (I know there was no sex before your marriage [Which I fully support-way to go], but was there talk about the sexual relationship before getting married?) 4) I imagine she was pretty close to her family (was she living on her own before getting married, or living with her family?) 5) She may have a history of depression or other mental illness in her family. 

All of these things could easily lead *anyone* into a depression. She should know that what she is experiencing is actually more common than you think. I wouldn't read too much into her "missing" Sam. I think she is depressed and is going back in her mind to a time when she was "happy." That time may have happened to be when she was with Sam. 

Get her to a doctor/psychiatrist for some medication. She should also get some individual counseling and the both of you should find a good marriage counselor.


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## mrfixit (Jul 12, 2011)

PBear said:


> So who does the chores around the house? And what was the reason that there was no sex prior to marriage? There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm wondering whose decision it was, and why? And what was the honeymoon argument about?
> 
> One thing you might consider is simply start living your life. Keep doing the things that give you pleasure. If she choses to sit around and mope, that's her decision. But the only person you can make happy is yourself.
> 
> ...


If I don't do the chores, they usually don't get done. Having both been raised in traditional families, refraining from sex before marriage was a decision we made early in our relationship. Ever since we were married, she has very few friends that she talks to, and even less that she will see. However, she has taken multiple trips without me to see family in different cities. These trips last anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks. The argument on our honeymoon started when I told her I didn't really like something she was doing because it was more painful than pleasurable. She reacted by saying I just didn't know what I was doing and I had no respect for her. I was under the impression that telling each other what we liked and what we didn't was the right way to go about having a healthy sexual relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrfixit (Jul 12, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> Okay, so there seems to be a lot going on here. 1) She was relatively young when she got married and may not have been completely ready for marriage. 2) Marriage is a huge adjustment to single life. 3)The sexual relationship takes a lot of time to develop (I know there was no sex before your marriage [Which I fully support-way to go], but was there talk about the sexual relationship before getting married?) 4) I imagine she was pretty close to her family (was she living on her own before getting married, or living with her family?) 5) She may have a history of depression or other mental illness in her family.
> 
> All of these things could easily lead *anyone* into a depression. She should know that what she is experiencing is actually more common than you think. I wouldn't read too much into her "missing" Sam. I think she is depressed and is going back in her mind to a time when she was "happy." That time may have happened to be when she was with Sam.
> 
> Get her to a doctor/psychiatrist for some medication. She should also get some individual counseling and the both of you should find a good marriage counselor.


I understand that a sexual relationship takes time to develop. It's the not liking it part that I don't understand. In my experience, sex is one of the biggest anticipations for couples like us. She lived with roommates before we got married, and she would always lightheartedly tell me we shouldn't talk about having sex if we weren't going to go through with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So she doesn't do housework, she doesn't work outside the home, she doesn't socialize except with her family, and she doesn't want to have sex? And you haven't suggested that maybe the next time she goes home for a visit that she just stay there?

My take is that people don't change unless they want to, or they have a reason to change. She's not working because you provide for her financially. She's not doing chores around the house because you'll do them. She's not having sex because there's little impact to her if she doesn't. 

Have you thought about starting to do your own chores around the house? Do your laundry, cook for yourself (or eat out), clean up your own messes...

Personally, I would say it's time to start being clear about your marriage expectations. Draw some lines (that you're willing to enforce) in the sand. Keep in mind that if you don't enforce them, she'll lose even more respect for you. Speaking of respect, have you continued doing your own fun things and ignored her protests? I'd recommend doing that... If she wants to sit in front of the computer all day, let her.

And do you KNOW what she does on the computer all day, every day?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris H. (Jan 27, 2007)

Riverside MFT said:


> I wouldn't read too much into her "missing" Sam. I think she is depressed and is going back in her mind to a time when she was "happy." That time may have happened to be when she was with Sam.


Good point here.

And don't get me wrong, I don't you should walk around blind to any signs of an affair. Just don't read into that one comment too much. It seems like she is in a very distressed state, so she might say some bizarre stuff.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

PBear said:


> And do you KNOW what she does on the computer all day, every day?


Probably the same thing as all of us here on TAM. lol I spend my fair share of time on the computer everyday. I'm even single and I'm not spending the day searching for men on the computer. Just proof that it is possible to use the computer for other activities!


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Lot going on here. 1st off, the Sam thing would set me off. I would probably throw her stuff through the window, without opening it. 

That said, she is definetly **** testing you. I have to plug Athols website here. 

Married Man Sex Life

The first year of my marriage was difficult. My wife definetly **** tested and I bought into it, FOR AWHILE and then I found my ba***. She is a great woman and was the same age as your wife when we married. It is a big transition for sure. Things are good now.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

827Aug said:


> Probably the same thing as all of us here on TAM. lol I spend my fair share of time on the computer everyday. I'm even single and I'm not spending the day searching for men on the computer. Just proof that it is possible to use the computer for other activities!


Oh, I agree. I spend way too much time on the computer and now iPad. Of course, I DID use it for my affair... 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrfixit (Jul 12, 2011)

This is something that came up just a few days ago. In short, I came home from a full day at work to find her at her computer, dishes piled in the sink, the garbage overflowing, and dirty laundry all over our room. She ducked away from my kiss, to which I sarcastically said "I love you too". I started cleaning up the mess in the kitchen, and about 15 minutes in, she said she was gonna do it, just never got around to it. She never made an attempt to get up or even look away from her computer (facebook). At that point, I told her I was frustrated with her, and she looked suprised and asked why. I didnt want to come off as the all-accusing husband, so I told her there were things that I thought the both of us could work on, such as keeping the kitchen clean. She just stared at me, so I continued to say we both tend to leave dishes in the sink till they pile up and make a lot of work to be done. She started yelling back that I was the one that made the mess by never rinsing off the dishes. I kept trying to explain to her (I never yell back at her btw) that I was just trying to let her know that I was willing to do better and that I wanted her help as well. She just got angry and started bringing up things from previous arguments until I said I wouldn't talk to her until she calmed down. That led to a 2 hour silent treatment until she came in and said she didn't like fighting with me. I thought she was going to apologize, but instead she just said, "so now what are you sorry for?" I told her I was sorry for accusing her of never helping me, and she said she was sorry that I made her mad. That got me boiling a little inside, and I started another argument (not intentionally) by saying that was not an apology, and that I wanted her to take responsibility for her part in the argument. She just did the "I'm never wrong" thing and then started her own silent treatment. I don't mean to rant, but this is how she has been for the past few months. I can never talk to her about anything she does that may bother me because to her she is never in the wrong and I'm the bad one for bringing it up.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Yes, I would definitely say she is definitely dealing with depression and maybe also some internet/facebook addiction.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I would definitely say she's dealing with _zero _respect for her husband, and quite possibly in the throes of an EA, if not PA and longing for good ol' Sam. 

Until that gets discussed, I see no way at all of you helping her through any depression, conflict, MC, or other proactive solutions. Time for some accountability from her.

Not trying to be combative, but my view from the info here is that she's depresssed because she doesn't want to be married -- not the other way around. I do not feel she's expressing marital dissatisfaction because she's depressed. Therein lies what you need to get to the root of, through counseling - and quickly. For a marriage 6 months into it with this level of erosion is just not healthy for either of you. "I hate you" as a stabradized response does not belong in a marriage, nor does her wishing you were an ex-bf. Not acceptable. 

And stop enabling her. Take her computer away till she can earn it.... She feels trapped?? Then she needs to get a job. You work full-time, she stays home, no kids? Dishes and household cleaning are her problem, sorry. You like some activities, she likes none? Do them without her if she refuses to join you (but always invite her and offer to join her in a different activity of her choosing instead), sorry. MAN UP, because depressed or not, she's taking full advantage of you not doing so. 

And fwiw, I still agree with lordmayhem, the signs are all there that this is worse (re: "Sam"), and you should be putting time and effort into that investigation to understand if there is (or is not) something else underlying why she's so unhappy...what else is she possibly doing all day long @ 22 yrs old??


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

at what point did you move away from where you lived during dating?

im thinking maybe there is the possibility her and 'sam' were carrying on a side fling and now being away from him makes her miss him?

plus her remark about


> tell me we shouldn't talk about having sex if we weren't going to go through with it.


and


> saying I just didn't know what I was doing


makes me think maybe you werent her first.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

MrFixit, I believe Chris nailed it when saying your W has "some unhealthy personality traits." The behavior you describe -- lack of impulse control, constant blaming, always being "the victim," black-white thinking, inappropriate anger, and a cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back temper tantrums -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Whether those traits are so severe as to satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD is a determination only a professional can make. 

Yet, even when the traits fall well short of that level, they can easily undermine a marriage and make your life miserable. Moreover, strong BPD traits are easy to identify when occurring in a woman you've known for several years. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about behavior such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and constant blaming. Indeed, you've already spotted such traits.

I therefore will share with you what I learned from living with my BPDer exW for 15 years. I am not psychologist. Rather, I am just a man who would like to help younger people avoid going down the path I and my exW were on for 15 years. That path will be painful to both of you and does not end well.


mrfixit said:


> I feel like she is not the same person I fell in love with.


Yes, the woman you "fell in love with" likely is gone. Indeed, if your W is a BPDer (i.e., person with strong BPD traits), that woman never existed. You fell in love -- as I did -- with a reflected image of your best qualities. Likely due to heredity and childhood trauma, a BPDer is unable to integrate her sense of self at age 3 or 4. She therefore grows up having only a weak and unstable sense of who she really is. This is why she tends to act differently around different people. To ground herself and provide a sense of how she should behave, she figures out how other people expect her to behave and then she acts in that manner. She has been doing this since childhood.

Hence, when she became infatuated with you, she continued doing the very same thing -- except that she pulled out all the stops and put enormous energy into it. That is, she adopted all of your preferences, suddenly liking all the people you like and enjoying all the things you enjoy. Moreover, she emulated all of your best personality features, reflecting all of the best qualities you have to offer. A BPDer typically does this so perfectly that the partner is convinced he has met his "soul mate." The result is that you came the closest you will ever come in your lifetime to making love to yourself.

It would be a serious mistake to think of that mirroring process as manipulation. If you think that way, you are greatly underestimating the damage your W suffered in early childhood because you are not understanding her need to do "acting" ever since childhood in order to survive, fit in, and be loved. Similarly, it would be a mistake to think you can ever restore that wonderful honeymoon period -- which typically lasts up to six months unless you live far apart. It cannot be restored because it could only exist while your W idealized you to the point of feeling you were a perfect man. Yes, she will still go through a cycle of idealizing and demonizing you, but the idealization will never again be that complete. Absent the idealization, her twin fears of engulfment and abandonment cannot be held at bay as they were during the honeymoon period.


> I'm very active and love to go wakeboarding in the summer, snowboarding in the winter, hiking, running, pretty much any thing. She used to do that stuff with me, but now she says she hates it, never liked it to begin with.


During the honeymoon period of infatuation, the BPDer typically not only mirrors your personality but also adopts most of your preferences and dislikes. It therefore is not surprising that your W loved doing those activities before you got married. After the infatuation wears off, however, she would start returning to her unstable self, becoming resentful of doing things she no longer enjoys. Significantly, instead of admitting to herself that her preferences changed, a BPDer will often "rewrite history" in her mind -- becoming convinced that she never really enjoyed doing those things. My exW did the same thing on many, many occasions. Because the history rewrite usually occurs at the subconscious level, a BPDer can sincerely believe it. This is why it is common for a BPDer to come up with the most ridiculous, incredulous explanations that you will be simply amazed an adult can say such things and keep a straight face at the same time. On top of that, it is common for a BPDer to lie when she is cornered -- rather than give up her false self image of being "the victim," always the victim.


> We had our first married argument the second day of our honeymoon, which was sex-related. In the weeks that followed, we argued daily almost, which never happened before we tied the knot.


As I said, the BPD traits start showing themselves as soon as the infatuation evaporates, usually about 4 to 6 months into the relationship. You were able to get 12 months of bliss before the marriage, most likely, only because the two of you were not sleeping or living together.


> I'm a pretty easy going guy, and I don't like to argue, but it seemed as though I would do something to provoke her enough to blow up on me. She threatened leaving me at least once a week in her temper tantrums.


You probably are not doing anything to "provoke" her. Rather, you are only triggering anger that is already there. BPDers have enormous anger just under the surface, carried from early childhood. Because the anger is already there, you don't have to create it. You only have to say or do some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can erupt into a rage in only ten seconds. Typically, the rages of a BPDer will last about five hours. A BPDer engages in this childish behavior because her emotional development is stuck at the level of a four year old.


> I really tried everything to not upset her, and it has gotten to the point that I feel as though I have to tip-toe around my own house.


This is why the best selling BPD book (targeted to partners of BPDers) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells_.


> I tried to act in such a way that she would be happy with me, but instead she started using the phrase, "I hate you" anytime I did something she didn't like.


This is why the second-best selling BPD book is called _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me. _With a BPDer, a wonderful evening or great weekend often is followed -- the very next morning -- by an argument that she creates out of thin air. Although she does not consciously realize it, she creates the fight to get breathing space. Indeed, the push-you-away and pull-you-back cycle you have witnessed every week is a hallmark of BPD.

It is the result of a BPDer's twin fears: engulfment and abandonment. Because your W likely has an unstable fragile self image, any time you draw close in intimacy (real intimacy, not just sex) she will experience engulfment. It is very frightening because she feels like she is being taken over by your strong personality -- like she is evaporating into thin air. To get breathing room, she will push you away. It may happen that same night or the next morning, usually taking the form of her creating an argument out of nothing.

Yet, as you back off to give her space, you will trigger her greatest fear, abandonment. So, after her tantrum dies down (they typically last about five hours), she may wait a few hours (or days or weeks) and will start reeling you back in. Of course, as you draw close, the cycle starts all over again. For 15 years, I kept hunting for the "Goldilocks" position between "too close" and "too far" to avoid triggering both of those fears. I can tell you that, if that safe midpoint position exists at all, it is a knife edge that is continually shifting.


> She also would complain to me about being depressed. ...every time I would ask why she felt depressed or what I could do to help, she either would not say anything, leave the room, or change the subject.


It is common for BPDers to suffer from depression and anxiety. Because they have extremely low self esteem -- and have only a weak, unstable sense of who they are -- they are often very unhappy. Moreover, as I mentioned above, they have enormous anger and shame inside that they have been carrying since childhood.


> She paused before saying she missed (for privacy sake we'll call him Sam, one of her ex's)Sam ... she insulted everything from my manhood to my family.... since then, she continues to act like nothing happened, however, she continually shy's away from any physical affection.


If your wife is a BPDer, the problem is not her wanting Sam but, rather, _her not knowing what she really wants_. Because BPDers do not know who they are, they lack a stable sense of direction and, for this reason, they hate to be alone -- and they have no idea what they will want a week from now. To bring stability into their lives, they feel a strong need to be living with someone who has a strong and stable sense of who he is. Yet, once that is achieved, the BPDer will feel like she is being "controlled" and "dominated" by that man. Moreover, her twin fears of engulfment and abandonment will be frequently triggered by the man in her life. Hence, BPDers are unhappy people regardless of whether they are alone or with someone.


> I have tried everything I can think of to make her happy. I take her to high end restaurants, clothing retailers, and even bought her a car.


It is impossible to make her happy. A person can only do that for herself. Without years of intensive therapy from a clinical psychologist, a BPDer remains a bottomless pit of need -- that cannot be filled up. If you are thinking your W will eventually become thankful for your gifts and self-sacrifice, please think again. Exactly how long does she remain appreciative of anything you have done over the past year? 

In my case, my exW would be thrilled for a few days -- a week tops -- when I would spend a lot of money on her. For example, I bought her $5,000 worth of sewing machines and spent another $6,000 on fabric. Over the 15 years, she made one dress, a vest, and a cat collar. Similarly, I bought her a piano and massage chair, both of which she dearly wanted and begged for. She played the $3,500 piano five times and sat in the $3,000 chair maybe four times.

The problem, of course, was not my exW but rather my foolish willingness to do those things. Untreated BPDers cannot appreciate anything for very long. For one thing, BPDers like my ex have an unstable sense of who they are, so they don't know today what they will want in two weeks. For another, strong emotions sweep through them, pushing aside feelings they had before. This is why, with untreated BPDers like your W, you cannot build up a reservoir of good will on which to draw during the bad times. With BPDers, it is always _"What have you done for me lately?"_


> Ever since we were married, she has very few friends that she talks to, and even less that she will see. However, she has taken multiple trips without me to see family in different cities.


BPDers typically have no long term close friends because they push them away. The people they do the best with are strangers, business associates, and casual friends. Such people pose no threat to a BPDer's two great fears. There is no threat of abandonment because there is no close relationship to be abandoned. And there is no threat of engulfment because there is no intimacy to cause engulfment. Further, to better control you, a BPDer typically will try to isolate you from your own friends and family because those people will say things like "that's the most ridiculous excuse I've ever heard...."


> She just did the "I'm never wrong" thing


As I've explained in other threads, BPDers do black-white thinking in which they categorize everyone as "all good" or "all bad" -- and they will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on an idle comment or minor infraction. Significantly, a BPDer has the same black-white view of herself. She therefore is very reluctant to accept responsibility for any mistake or flaw -- because it means she has to recategorize herself from "all good" to "all bad," bringing up enormous feelings of intense shame. This is one reason a BPDer goes through her entire life believing she is "a victim." To support that illusion, she needs a continual "perpetrator" (i.e.,YOU) in her life.

MrFixit, if this discussion rings a bell, I suggest you read my discussion of BPD traits in Blacksmith's thread. My posts there start at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-complicated-marriage-dynamic.html#post358403. If you have questions, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to professional articles that can. I also would be glad to discuss codependence issues with you. I mention this because it sounds like you are an "extreme caregiver," as I am -- and as your member name suggests. If so, I suggest you start taking better care of _yourself_ for a change. It is impossible for you to fix your W, MrFixit. Only she has the power to do that.


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## mrfixit (Jul 12, 2011)

Uptown, I cannot believe how well you just described my wifes behavior. Things are still very shakey as far as relationship goes. Can I ask, what can I do? Last night, we got into another "I'm so depressed and unhappy" conversations. I'm seriously at a loss. She said she is unhappy being married, yet refused to even consider seeing anyone to talk about it. How can I make anything better if she won't take the necessary steps to get started?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

mrfixit said:


> How can I make anything better if she won't take the necessary steps to get started?


You can't make a substantial improvement unless she decides to confront her issues and learn to manage them -- a process that likely will take several years of intensive therapy at a minimum. It is rare, however, for BPDers to be willing to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference in their behavior. Until those underlying problems are addressed, marriage counseling likely will be useless. Teaching a BPDer better communication skills will make her better at manipulation but do nothing to address the thought distortions, lack of trust, emotional instability, anger, and immaturity.

You likely can make a very small improvement, however, by learning how to be better at validating her feelings, i.e., acknowledging and affirming that she is experiencing an intense feeling -- without necessarily agreeing that that the feeling accurately reflects reality. Such affirmation techniques are discussed a little in _Stop Walking on Eggshells._


> What can I do?


If you decide that her BPD traits are so strong they are undermining your marriage, I suggest that you leave now -- before having any children with her. If you decide to remain in the marriage, the most productive thing you can do is to learn how to build stronger personal boundaries and how to enforce them. That will benefit you by allowing you to be yourself again and to take care of your own needs. It will benefit your W by allowing her to suffer the logical consequences of her own childish behavior. This provides her an incentive to confront her own issues and do something to manage them (instead of blaming everything on you). When you learn how to do that you will, of course, stop walking on eggshells (hence, the title of the book).

Yet, as you stop being a doormat and start standing up for yourself, the likely result will be for her to terminate the relationship. Indeed, even if you don't stand up for yourself, she probably will eventually leave you. From my own experience and from what I've heard from other ex-spouses, BPDers typically walk out after about 15 years because, as the years go by, they grow increasingly resentful that the spouse is unable to make them happy. Also, they may preemptively abandon the spouse because, as they see their bodies aging, they may grow increasingly fearful of abandonment. If you are seriously considering a divorce, I suggest you read Article 9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York. The other articles at that site are excellent too.

To get support from other folks in your same situation, I suggest you start participating at BPDfamily.com, the largest BPD forum I've found that is targeted solely to spouses and partners like you. Of the 8 message boards there, the two that may be of greatest interest to you are the "Leaving" and "Staying" boards. And, if you want to learn about the horrors and pain of having a child with a BPDer, take a look at the message board called "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD." But please don't forget about those of us here at TAM. We will be glad to keep supporting you as long as you find our shared experiences helpful.

As Chris suggested, it sounds like your W needs professional guidance from a psychiatrist (for an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety prescription) and a clinical psychologist (for therapy). Although she has refused to go, she may change her mind if you insist on it as an alternative to divorce. Keep in mind, however, that the therapy won't do a bit of good unless she strongly wants it for herself.

In my case, I insisted on my exW going to therapy. I spent a small fortune on 15 years of weekly treatments from six different psychologists -- all to no avail. She just played mind games with them. The problem for me, of course, was that it was extremely difficult to tell whether my BPDer exW was actually improving. As you know all too well, an emotionally unstable woman "improves" every two weeks when she starts splitting you white again -- but the improvement is not lasting.

Regardless of whether your W sees a therapist, MrFixIt, I strongly recommend that you go to a clinical psychologist -- on your own -- to obtain a professional opinion on what you're dealing with. In the unlikely event that your W agrees to see a therapist, keep in mind that HER therapist is _not your friend. _Professional ethics will require that the therapist be loyal only to the client, i.e., to your W even though you are paying the bills. For reasons I've explained in other threads, it is very unlikely the therapist will tell your W -- much less tell you -- that she has BPD traits even if she has them at the diagnostic level. Hence, the only way you likely will get a candid opinion about such traits is to see your own psychologist and describe the situation. Relying on the advice of your W's _therapist _would be just as foolish as relying on the advice of her _attorney_ while you are in the process of divorcing her.


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