# The Life After Divorce "Firsts" - Navigating New Relationships.



## esrum1 (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm sure a whole thread could be dedicated to all of those "post divorce firsts", i.e. first holidays, first time seeing ex with new partner, first dates, etc., etc. Tonight though, I'm hoping to sound off on a new relationship (if you'd even call it that) that I've found myself in. 

My main thread is here, and I won't go into the divorce backstory:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/176521-being-dumpee-overcoming-pain-rebuilding.html

Suffice to say, that post-divorce, I started to actively pursue dating in April. Just wanted to get back into it with no expectations and not really pursue anything serious. I met a girl via the web the last week of May, she really caught my attention, and we had a second, third and then many other dates since then. We get along well during our dates; I find her genuinely sweet, caring, smart and fun. We talk/text throughout the day - she knows my schedule, checks in on things she remembers that I'm dealing with during the week, I've met a few of her friends and family, she's met a few of mine. There are, however, quite a few problem/frustrations that I have - and frankly, I have not an ounce of a clue where things stand:

1. Our schedules conflict - like crazy. For work, I travel Tuesday through Friday night. For her work, she travels Thursday morning through Sunday night. That leaves us with Mondays to see each other, and leaves me with open weekend nights spent at bars and clubs with my single friends.

2. We've dated so many times now that I've lost count. Each time memorable, exciting and I'd assume mutually enjoyable. We've been somewhat physical, but have not had sex. 

3. There's been no formal definition placed on our relationship. Nor really any discussion around it either. I really have no idea if she's seeing anyone else, and she hasn't asked if I am. And truly, I have no idea how she views "us".

4. And lastly, she's flaked out on several different occasions, leaving me feeling incredibly frustrated, confused and like I'm not a priority (which I very well might not be). In my mind, I try to give her the benefit of the doubt - she's a single, full-time working, traveling mom, with a whopper of an ex-husband - her plate IS very full, hence the reason I've held on for this long. 

None of these above points have been addressed or discussed with her - and hence why I'm here. I'm really getting frustrated, and to me, it seems like she's pretty apathetic about the way this whole thing is going. I'm really trying to analyze and draw personal parallels between what went wrong in my marriage and what's causing me some anxiety here. 

The only thing I can come up with is that my ability to emotionally communicate sucked back then (marriage), and sucks now. For fear of disrupting the status quo (even though the status quo sucks), I fail to and have always failed to effectively communicate what I need and I what I want.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

If this is your first post divorce relationship, my first bit of advice would be to NOT try to label what it is.

Are you exclusive? Does she consider you exclusive? If you don't know, this is going to feed your anxiety. If you aren't sure you plan on sticking around, don't ask the question

I travel a great deal too. I can tell you that for me, my problem is also finding someone who thinks I'm available enough.

Last bit of advice. If you aren't thrilled with this woman, don't stick around. Life is too short.


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## poppyseed (Dec 22, 2013)

esrum1 said:


> *Just wanted to get back into it with no expectations and not really pursue anything serious.* There are, however, quite a few problem/frustrations that I have - and frankly, I have not an ounce of a clue where things stand:
> 
> 
> 2. We've dated so many times now that I've lost count. Each time memorable, exciting and I'd assume mutually enjoyable. We've been somewhat physical, but *have not had sex. *
> ...


To me, no sex means either she's not the type of girl who wants to have random casual sex / she dislikes FWB type relationship post-D. But it could be a number of other things. 

You said you weren't into anything serious at this stage Post-D (very wise) and she has got "too much on her plate" based on how you described? But as Deejo said, I agree, it's up to you. What do you want from her, really? Are they realistically achievable? How does she feel about you? How do YOU feel about her?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

This will seem really cynical and I'm giving fair warning I am applying my own experience to this situation. 

If you can't spend enough quality time with her then there won't be much of a relationship. I had this very issue in my last relationship (8 months). I couldn't bond to the man properly (call him E). We were both busy with whacky schedules and only saw each other once a week, often once every two weeks. 

Guess what... I was flaky, unable to really open up to him, because I'd have a lovely date then wonder when the heck I'd see E again. I'd be nervous around him, which was not like me at all, because every time I saw him felt like a reset button had been pushed. It's hard to explain. I felt like I knew him superficially but there was some invisible barrier keeping me from knowing him intimately. He'd give me a huge plate of candy then take it away. It's draining on your feelings, especially if you two have lots of fun together. The slight bonds I'd build up when spending time with E would get instantly crushed when I couldn't see him until a whole week (or two) later.

I loved him and still do, but we just couldn't get close enough. Add on this woman's mom status (which I didn't have) and I can only guess it would be even harder to build a connection given the lack of time together. 

I'm not assuming any of this is the same for you, maybe it's not, I just thought I'd share after what I learned. I specifically avoid guys now who are unable to give enough time for a relationship. Texting/calls don't count. If you want to be with me you have to BE with me. I owe the same in return. This might also be why your relationship isn't quite "official." She doesn't really know what you two are. You don't seem to know either. I didn't have a clue until E and I slept together. Our problems, however, persisted. I just felt worse because of the lack of sexy time bonding chemicals. And then I was the gf who rarely got to see her bf. 

If your schedules can't be more accommodating (and you've discussed it seriously) I'd suggest moving on. Don't have sex with her thinking it will solve a problem, it will only slap on a bandaid and trifle horribly with both of your feelings.

ETA: I had missed your statement that poppyseed just highlighted about initially wanting something casual. It seems like what you'd written was describing something more, hence my reply was made based on that assumption.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

esrum1 said:


> 1. Our schedules conflict - like crazy. For work, I travel Tuesday through Friday night. For her work, she travels Thursday morning through Sunday night. That leaves us with Mondays to see each other, and leaves me with open weekend nights spent at bars and clubs with my single friends.
> 
> 2. We've dated so many times now that I've lost count. Each time memorable, exciting and I'd assume mutually enjoyable. We've been somewhat physical, but have not had sex.
> 
> ...


1. I agree that quality time together is required to form a close emotional connection. What are the chances her schedule can be changed to accommodate yours? If it's slim - for instance if she's in the hospitality industry and it's likely to always be this way - then it's unlikely to ever be a successful relationship.

2. How have you managed the dates? On Mondays or does she get sitters sometimes? Is it a standing Monday date? It's been three months of dates and no sex - is it hard to hold back? Who is holding back? Are you making out and she's receptive only you don't press waiting for a 'signal'? Or does she shut you down and is being careful about who she gets intimate with? Many women won't make the first move. If you haven't, she might be assuming you aren't that into her. This is where your communication is an issue. 

If you want this to progress in that direction, I suggest next date you don't hold back and just keep heading toward sex. If she stops you, it's time for you to ask if she's just not feeling it.

3. Don't define it. The relationship "defines" itself. You are dating. That's it. It's a difficult adjustment to make for sure! I started looking at every man I went out with wondering if they were good husband/father material. I learned that's way too soon. Just enjoy the company without trying to fit it in a box. We like order and definitions provide cognitive order, but this is one place we need to tell our brains to stop.

Also, assume, until you have the exclusivity conversation, that she IS dating other people. While women are less likely to be dating around (from my experience/friendships), a person sets themselves up for disappointment and heartache (albeit on a smaller scale) when they assume after a couple dates and some making out that the other person is also not dating others. Depending on how you feel, it's a good idea to date others. It's a lot easy to see someone clearly when they aren't your only option at the moment. 

However, back to #2, after sex or if she cools things off and it doesn't progress to sex, it's time to be verbal. "Penny, I really enjoy our time together and love getting your phone calls and thoughtful messages. I'm not sure where this is going and we certainly don't have to decide that, but I'm not seeing anyone else and I'd like to know if you are - and if you're not, that's great. I'd like to date exclusive for a while and see where it goes." Maybe she holds off on sex until she knows it's exclusive. Does she know you go to bars on the weekends? She may think you are playing the field. 

4. Flakey is a huge red flag. It can mean she's really just not that into you and you're just creating a holding spot until someone she's more interested in comes along. OR it can simply mean she has a lot going on. If you care to provide examples, that would help. For instance if she cancels because her child has a cold (which is a minor illness) that's not flakey - even if the kid doesn't have a fever, she wants to be there for her child for comfort and a sitter just isn't the same. Or she might have had a heated exchange with her ex and really just isn't in the mood to be sociable. This is a bigger issue than the child example because if she's into you, she should be able to open up and find solace in your time together. 

It seems you are in that grey area of "just not that into you" OR "being careful with her emotions and juggling a lot". Which is why I think pressing the sex boundary to see if she moves in that direction might be a subtle way to gauge that, followed by an exclusive discussion and if exclusive, ways to make more time for each other.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I think in your last post we cautioned dating too fast and getting involved too quickly. It sounds to me like you're definitely in that arena.

You've been seeing a girl once a week at most, never had sex with her, and you're already trying to define the relationship (which in itself is a chick move).

I doubt you're ready to be dating yet....Why don't you try being alone for a while so you can work on your goals and dreams and figure out who you are before you try to bring someone else along?

Edit: Nevermind I looked back at your thread, I confused you with someone else. Advice still stands though, you're getting way too attached to a girl you honestly don't know that well.

Try dating a few girls at a time so you can chillax with the Oneitis (google it). The way you're moving, you're going to get hooked up with a crazy.


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## esrum1 (Oct 3, 2012)

COguy said:


> You've been seeing a girl once a week at most, never had sex with her, and you're already trying to define the relationship (*which in itself is a chick move*).


COguy - this is pretty dang funny - and good to remember.

All really good advice though, I appreciate it from everyone. A little clarification; when I set out into the dating world 6 months ago, I ventured out _not_ wanting get too serious. That was until I met this gal, and only really came to the conclusion about 5 weeks ago or so that I wanted and hoped we could take it to the next level. Also, for the record, I assume that sex will happen when it happens, I'm not getting too hung up on that fact right now. 

1. She flaked out on me last night, which really annoyed me. We talked on Monday and she was having some trouble with her ex and exchanging their kid. I listened to her, offered her my sympathies/support, and then toward the end of the call, told her that I'd like to take her out on Tuesday night. She was thrilled, we ended the call, texted a bunch more that night, she told me I was "amazing", yada, yada, yada. Yesterday (Tuesday) at around 2:00 p.m. I texted to coordinate a time to come pick her up and she tells me that since she hadn't seen her son all weekend, she wanted to take him out and that that evening wouldn't work. I played it cool, said something like, "that's okay, I'm glad you're going to get to spend some time with him..." But I was pretty dang annoyed. She's done this a few other times to me in the past. 

2. Satya - what you describe is _exactly_ what is going on. Most frustrating part is that to me she doesn't seem to mind it. I feel "strung along", "sidelined", "contingency" if you will. Great time together, sparks, laughs, connection. Then a freaking 7 to 14 day gap. 

3. I _would_ like to get to the next level with this girl. But her apathy, aloofness and informality are big, BIG, annoying red flags. I feel that I really need to get on the same page as her ASAP, and if we're not able to be there, then tip my hat and go my way. I've been feeling more anxiety over this, which to me says that it's really not a good thing the way it currently is.

Anyways, I think that this verbiage is pretty good:



EnjoliWoman said:


> "I really enjoy our time together and love getting your phone calls and thoughtful messages. I'm not sure where this is going and we certainly don't have to decide that, but I'm not seeing anyone else and I'd like to know if you are - and if you're not, that's great. I'd like to date exclusive for a while and see where it goes."


Is this something that can be done over the phone or best in person?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I sort of retract what I said. She knew Monday that she hadn't seen her son for a while. Maybe Mom guilt set in, who knows. And her son should come first. But apparently she doesn't have the ability to manage her time and relationships. It's whatever whim strikes. 

How long has she been divorced? I could see being exclusive if you are on the cusp of having sex. But if you are an afterthought, it may be too soon for exclusivity. Why are you waiting around on the weekends doing nothing but hanging with buds? You never answered if her schedule has potential to change. I thought Monday was her night to see you? She was picking up her son? If she hadn't seen her son in a week why was she going to see you Monday? Something is weird about this. She shouldn't have scheduled a Monday OR a Tuesday date knowing she hadn't seen her son in a week.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

esrum1 said:


> COguy - this is pretty dang funny - and good to remember.
> 
> All really good advice though, I appreciate it from everyone. A little clarification; when I set out into the dating world 6 months ago, I ventured out _not_ wanting get too serious. That was until I met this gal, and only really came to the conclusion about 5 weeks ago or so that I wanted and hoped we could take it to the next level. Also, for the record, I assume that sex will happen when it happens, I'm not getting too hung up on that fact right now.
> 
> ...



So you weren't getting serious but now that you've found "Her" (The One!), it's time to throw that out the window?

Do You Suffer From Oneitis?

You're coming off a divorce, take her off the pedestal and keep it light. Focus on YOU and what you want out of life, not trying to tie this one down (who you have limited contact with). You're venturing into "nice guy" (read doormat) territory.


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## esrum1 (Oct 3, 2012)

COguy - I read through that, and that's good stuff. 

I've definitely got some Oneitis going on. 

I'm new to this arena, and shoot, I didn't even know "Oneitis" was even a thing. 

Just looking over the entire picture, there are quite a few things I've already said and done that have "nice guy" written all over it - so I'm probably already in that territory. 

Time to hit the reset button, keep things light, have multiple options going at the same time, and refocus on myself.

Some good learning has been done today.

I'll update as I move along . . .


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

esrum1 said:


> COguy - I read through that, and that's good stuff.
> 
> I've definitely got some Oneitis going on.
> 
> ...


It's a journey man, you won't be Captain Alpha-man in one day. Just learn as much as you can and always be willing to work on it. Best thing I could have done was date more than one girl at once. Because you physically don't have the time to get caught up in one person, but also because it allows you valuable perspective.

It's real easy to think some chick is the most amazing thing in the world when she's the only girl you're talking to. When you're dating 2 or 3 other ones it helps you find balance.

But post-divorce your life should be more about you than females, unless you're just trying to get your peeny wet.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

esrum1 said:


> We've been somewhat physical, but have not had sex.
> 
> There's been no formal definition placed on our relationship. Nor really any discussion around it either. I really have no idea if she's seeing anyone else, and she hasn't asked if I am. And truly, I have no idea how she views "us".
> 
> ...


Don't like. 

Especially the flaking part and you feeling she's apathetic. You said there are parallels to your marriage - and I wonder if the parallel is that you also di dnot discuss with your wife when you were feeling this way.

Dating since May. No sex. No clue i she's seeing others. Flakes. Is apathetic.

I'd say talk to her about where this is going but don't put your eggs in one basket. After a few months I feel like you should know/both be n the same page. Keep her as a dater and keep dating others who may be more compatible. If someone isn't fully into you and is "apathetic" about you/the relationship, do you really want to continue. Invest your time in folks who actually care/want to be with you.

And for goodness sake, have some sex with the next person you date.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Last bit of advice. If you aren't thrilled with this woman, don't stick around. Life is too short.


THIS IS EVERYTHING!

:iagree:


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Life After Divorce "Firsts" - Navigating New Relationships.*



esrum1 said:


> 2. Satya - what you describe is _exactly_ what is going on. Most frustrating part is that to me she doesn't seem to mind it. I feel "strung along", "sidelined", "contingency" if you will. Great time together, sparks, laughs, connection. Then a freaking 7 to 14 day gap.


Do not make a person a priority if they only make you an option.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

You want to be a priority in her life. Right now, you aren't. Trust your gut, stop making excuses. The benefits of being in the dating pool, and being older, is experience. Be up front with her about what your feeling. Lead the relationship. It will either work out, or it wont. Your marriage ended for reasons. All of ours did. Do you want to go back to that place again? Remember what that felt like.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Satya said:


> Do not make a person a priority if they only make you an option.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## poppyseed (Dec 22, 2013)

Satya said:


> This will seem really cynical and I'm giving fair warning I am applying my own experience to this situation.
> 
> We were both busy with whacky schedules and *only saw each other once a week*, often once every two weeks.
> 
> ...


Satya, Must say, your post is excellent, making me realize your high intelligence and awareness. Your E doesn't sound as if he's after a full on relationship, which you seem to be ready to have according to my impression. Perhaps, E isn't on the same page as you are? Mind you, people travel at different speed when they are dating so it may still work out in the end? But if you are sensing that E is deliberately keeping the pace as it has been and you are not happy and you'd deserve better, I guess. 

I'm somewhat amazed (mind you, not in a negative way but more in a more "enlightened" sort of way) by other posters commenting on dating multiples & how often to meet up e.g. twice a week! lol I guess, I'm "one at a time" type of person (I'm quite selective) and the slow pace at the beginning whilst my ex had proven to be capable of juggling "multiples" (even during our marriage) in his demanding work schedule. Just it's not my style to keep multiple dates going. This is also because I can focus on my hobbies if I don't have to have a date. (I have one which has been going but I am not over-focusing on him as I have other interests in my life) and he's accepting.


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## poppyseed (Dec 22, 2013)

esrum1 said:


> The only thing I can come up with is that my ability to emotionally communicate sucked back then (marriage), and sucks now. For fear of disrupting the status quo (even though the status quo sucks), I fail to and have always failed to effectively communicate what I need and I what I want.


Well, then..it's time you did things differently this time. It sounds slightly odd that you were introduced to her family and friends but as what? As a boyfriend? Is she religious e.g. no sex until you are married scenario? Menopause? Anyway, good luck. PS Stop having any meaningless texting all day with her, which I sort of get the whiff of "Co-dep" only slightly.


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