# Ladies, how would you have reacted?



## Aitrus (Mar 25, 2013)

Ladies, I have a situation for you that I'd greatly appreciate your views on. I did something special for my wife the other evening, and I'm wondering if her reaction was appropriate for the situation.

Background: you are currently enrolled in a full-time 1-year Master's program at a university 30 minutes away. You attend classes every day from 8am until 4pm, with 2 nights a week going to 7 or 8. You have a total of about 20 hours of homework a week. This has been your life for the past 11 months. Your husband has taken care of all household functioning except shopping and you tag-team the laundry (along with the oldest daughter) . This would include his handling everything relating to your 6 and 10 year old daughters, and he securely holds down a 60k a year government job. He has also recently taken you on a 3-day 2-night marriage retreat on the Cascade Mountains, which you returned from less than a week ago, because he wished the two of you to address some intimacy and relationship problems at this seminar. Since your return he has not pressured you to talk about the issues, the relationship, the retreat or tried to initiate sex. You have also been feeling under the weather lately, unable to sleep well because of your coughing and achy body.

Tonight you returned home at 7:30 because it was one of your late nights. You'd exchanged a couple of pleasant emails with your husband today, and nothing seemed amiss. You open the front door and find that all the lights are off except the entry light over the cabinet. On the cabinet is a single long-stem rose in a vase with a note that says "The kids are in bed, so come to the bedroom and prepare to be relaxed." You can hear soft music coming from the bedroom and the temp is turned up a few degrees.

What would you do?

Would you ignore the note to go to the freezer to stick a burrito in the microwave, then go to the kid's room to chat with them for a few minutes, only to go back out to eat your burrito? Would you then, after 30 minutes, go to the bedroom? Would you walk in, see your husband leaning against a dresser wearing shorts and a t-shirt, gesturing to the king-size bed, sans covers but with towels spread out, lights turned down low, your wedding song playing on the radio, and a bottle of massage oil in his hand, only to brush by him on your way to the bathroom without a word?

After spending a few minutes on the toilet, brushing, flossing, washing and changing into comfy jammy bottoms and worn out comfy t-shirt, would you come out of the bathroom to find your husband, still in the same spot, with a small smile on his face only to ask "Why is it so hot in here?" If his reply were to wrap his arms around you and start slow dancing, would your reaction be to hold back a little and ask to discuss the emails from earlier that day? If he doesn't answer, but instead tells you that you need to take off your clothes so he can massage you to sleep, no sex expected, would you plead to keep your panties on?

After you climb into bed, sans panties, would you lay there quietly as a log, not letting your husband know where you hurt, what feels good, what you want more attention on, even when he asks? Would you go the entire massage, front to back, head to foot, and an hour in length without saying anything or making nary a sound? And, after he is finished, you give him a simple "thank you", put on your clothes and go to sleep?

Would you not even mention the massage to him, even though 3 days have passed?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Aitrus said:


> Ladies, I have a situation for you that I'd greatly appreciate your views on. I did something special for my wife the other evening, and I'm wondering if her reaction was appropriate for the situation.
> 
> Background: you are currently enrolled in a full-time 1-year Master's program at a university 30 minutes away. You attend classes every day from 8am until 4pm, with 2 nights a week going to 7 or 8. You have a total of about 20 hours of homework a week. This has been your life for the past 11 months. Your husband has taken care of all household functioning except shopping and you tag-team the laundry (along with the oldest daughter) . This would include his handling everything relating to your 6 and 10 year old daughters, and he securely holds down a 60k a year government job. He has also recently taken you on a 3-day 2-night marriage retreat on the Cascade Mountains, which you returned from less than a week ago, because he wished the two of you to address some intimacy and relationship problems at this seminar. Since your return he has not pressured you to talk about the issues, the relationship, the retreat or tried to initiate sex. You have also been feeling under the weather lately, unable to sleep well because of your coughing and achy body.
> 
> ...


It is very hard with the vague details to say whether or not I think your wife's reaction was appropriate or not. Clearly she was not already warmed up to sex.... and when you offered the massage only option, she took it... however that being said... 
I gave my husband an analogy today... you can't just put a pizza in the oven right after you turned it on... you have to set the temp. hit the preheat button and wait till it beeps. Women have two preheat buttons that need to be worked on a regular basis, their mind and their heart... we are (most of us) not like men in the "jump right into sex" part... now while i think your setup was romantic, you didn't consider she needed to eat and wanted to speak with teh children.... you just expected her to be ready right inside the door, while she still had distractions. Had you have already had the children ASLEEP this plan may have worked out much better... that being said without knowing more about your relationship or her in general what has worked in the past (or the content of said emails you mentioned more than once)... it's hard to say.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

livelaughlovenow said:


> It is very hard with the vague details to say whether or not I think your wife's reaction was appropriate or not. Clearly she was not already warmed up to sex.... and when you offered the massage only option, she took it... however that being said...
> I gave my husband an analogy today... you can't just put a pizza in the oven right after you turned it on... you have to set the temp. hit the preheat button and wait till it beeps. Women have two preheat buttons that need to be worked on a regular basis, their mind and their heart... we are (most of us) not like men in the "jump right into sex" part... now while i think your setup was romantic, you didn't consider she needed to eat and wanted to speak with teh children.... you just expected her to be ready right inside the door, while she still had distractions. Had you have already had the children ASLEEP this plan may have worked out much better... that being said without knowing more about your relationship or her in general what has worked in the past (or the content of said emails you mentioned more than once)... it's hard to say.


I disagree! That was a lovely and well thought out evening! I would Love Love Love this! Her actions were disgusting! No appreciation whatsoever. Not just for what he did this particular evening, but for everything he does for her period.


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## Aitrus (Mar 25, 2013)

You're right, I was vague. Please allow me to clarify.

I wasn't expecting sex, truly. I knew she's been sick and tired from the grind. What I wanted was to have an evening for her to get some much-needed rest. 

I also understand that it takes time to warm up the oven. I continually hit her top 3 Love Languages and talk (without trying to solve her problems for her) whenever she needs to. Lack of intimacy, my being too much of a Beta and that I'm her lowest priority and unwillingness to compromise on the area if intimacy are the biggest relationship issues we have. The retreat was the first time we'd had time alone from the kids in over a year, and while we did argue about intimacy during the retreat, we also had our first real sex in over 9 months that weekend.

The emails were normal conversation - weekend plans, summer plans, "how is your day, are you feeling better?" kind of emails. Nothing critical. And she'd mentioned that she was planning to eat at the school, and the kids were nearly asleep by the time she got home, with an understanding from me that Mom and Dad aren't to be disturbed unless it's an emergency.

My goal was to keep warming the oven, to help her get some rest. Her non - reaction to it, even a few days later, is making me think I did something wrong. Not that I'm going to tell her that - too Beta. But I am wondering if, from a female perspective, if I miscommunicated in some way.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

From the perspective you've shared here, it sounds like something is amiss between you. She pleaded to keep her underwear on? Why did she need to plead? I think it's important to recognize each others body language. While you felt that might have been what she needed and wanted to give this way to her, that might not have been what she needed that night. The only way you'd know is to communicate...and being aware of her communication, both verbal and non-verbal. 

You wrote that she backed away when you wanted to dance with her. She wanted to discuss emails...you didn't answer her and pursued with your plan to give her the evening you wanted for her. It might not have been what she wanted though. 


I think it does sound like a lovely night was planned by you. But when there's a disconnect, that needs to be dealt with slowly but surely and in my opinion, openly.

How would I have reacted? Let me tell you, the other night I got home from a 10 hour day, feeling pretty exhausted and last thing I needed was creepy guy touching my hand on the train on the way home. I considered telling him to back off but instead moved down the train. He followed shortly after. To shorten the story, hubs was at the station to pick me up. I told him about my train ride and I was kind of 'done' by the time I saw him. He gave me a big, tight bear hug. We got home and he already had a bath run for me while he took care of dinner and our evening continued in a lovely way. I LOVED it.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I feel for you though, I get that you're trying to restore intimacy with her. I'm curious...with the massage, she didn't say anything (which I do find strange too and makes me wonder what's not being resolved between you emotionally) but did you ask her how it felt? How the pressure was? Did you comment gently to her about areas of tension and taking care of her or were you quiet during the massage too? Is she generally open to receiving touch/massage?

When I have a professional massage, I don't speak..only if I need the pressure adjusted but normally a massage therapist will ask towards the beginning how the pressure is and most of the time I'm barely able to squeeze out "Perfect" (or should that be purrrfect?) because I've just fallen into heap of relaxation.

At home with hubs, I'm more verbal and moan where it feels good. If I'm really relaxed, then I'll let out a 'thank you' before falling asleep. When he massages me though, he does softly comment about relaxing certain areas of tension or tells me how much he enjoys that time with me.


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## Aitrus (Mar 25, 2013)

heartsbeating said:


> From the perspective you've shared here, it sounds like something is amiss between you. She pleaded to keep her underwear on? Why did she need to plead? I think it's important to recognize each others body language. While you felt that might have been what she needed and wanted to give this way to her, that might not have been what she needed that night. The only way you'd know is to communicate...and being aware of her communication, both verbal and non-verbal.
> 
> You wrote that she backed away when you wanted to dance with her. She wanted to discuss emails...you didn't answer her and pursued with your plan to give her the evening you wanted for her. It might not have been what she wanted though.
> 
> ...


Plead was the wrong word. The exchange was along the lines of "Take off your clothes so I can massage you to sleep." "Can I keep my panties on?" "No, they need to come off so I can get the butt too." "But what if the butt doesn't want to be touched?" "Then the panties will just get stained from the oil. Your choice." And off they came.

I will admit, body language reading isn't my strong suit. That said, she didn't seem reluctant, just a little tired.


Communication...talking about intimacy in any way has resulted in disagreements, fights, arguments or hurt feelings resulting from rejection, inadequacy, or percieved degredation almost very time we've talked about it for most of our 15 year marriage. Hence the retreat, and my question today.


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## Aitrus (Mar 25, 2013)

heartsbeating said:


> I feel for you though, I get that you're trying to restore intimacy with her. I'm curious...with the massage, she didn't say anything (which I do find strange too and makes me wonder what's not being resolved between you emotionally) but did you ask her how it felt? How the pressure was? Did you comment gently to her about areas of tension and taking care of her or were you quiet during the massage too? Is she generally open to receiving touch/massage?
> 
> When I have a professional massage, I don't speak..only if I need the pressure adjusted but normally a massage therapist will ask towards the beginning how the pressure is and most of the time I'm barely able to squeeze out "Perfect" (or should that be purrrfect?) because I've just fallen into heap of relaxation.
> 
> At home with hubs, I'm more verbal and moan where it feels good. If I'm really relaxed, then I'll let out a 'thank you' before falling asleep. When he massages me though, he does softly comment about relaxing certain areas of tension or tells me how much he enjoys that time with me.


Yes, I asked her how it felt, sought guidance for my hands, and no answer. It was the first massage she has let me give her in a couple of years, and she is generally not receptive to affection, including touch.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Honestly - I know I am the opposite of most so
en, 100%. So I may be way off base here.

Given the picture you painted of her life...long days at school, getting over a cold, just went on a weekend retreat with you when you said yourself she doesn't typically leave the kids, ever...

Would I want to come home to a massage? No. Would I want to come home to any planned activity whatsoever? No. The first thing on my mind would be - man, I am exhausted, hungry, and want to see my husband and kids to catch up on their day. (And if she had been communicating with you by email all day, then my priority would be to see and talk to my kids at that moment.) 

That's just me. A romantic gesture would be lost on me in that situation and all I would want when I get home of space to unwind, not pressure - real or perceived - to get involved in any kind of bedroom activity.

Could she have handled the situation better? Sure. She should have thanked you for the effort and explained that she would like a raincheck for another time. If she had said that to you, would you feel better about it, or would you have been disappointed and upset that she didn't enjoy your plans? (Do you think she has a reason to reluctantly go along with what you want to avoid rocking the boat? )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Aitrus said:


> Yes, I asked her how it felt, sought guidance for my hands, and no answer. It was the first massage she has let me give her in a couple of years, and she is generally not receptive to affection, including touch.


Massage and touch isn't for everyone. Is there a chance she was actually trying in her own way for even accepting this from you? I speculate based on what you've written that she likely didn't want this massage but was perhaps attempting to roll with it. She wasn't direct with you about not wanting her glutes massaged. She framed it as a question...and along with her other reluctant behavior of the evening, seems like she was trying to avoid potential conflict by not expressing what she really wanted. No doubt she could see you were trying and perhaps this was her way of trying too. But only she can shed light on how she felt. If intimacy has been strained for so long, it's going to take time. Maybe you need to let go of expectation of her at this point and acknowledge any progress you are making together. 

Are you direct with her also - simply in the way of sharing why being intimate in that way is important to you and why you cherish those moments with her? Expressed in a positive and loving way, and why you want to give and share that with her. I don't know ....seems to me these things have a tendency to relate beyond the thing itself and that usually needs to be dealt with first, so that trust is there to give and receive touch/love.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

kag123 said:


> Honestly - I know I am the opposite of most so
> en, 100%. So I may be way off base here.
> 
> Given the picture you painted of her life...long days at school, getting over a cold, just went on a weekend retreat with you when you said yourself she doesn't typically leave the kids, ever...
> ...


I agree, and probably would have reacted the same way your wife did. It was a loving gesture by you, but I am the type that needs to think about things first. Now, if you had asked her and given her a choice earlier in the day, she might have been mentally prepared, especially knowing that it was only a massage and nothing more.

In addition to this, you don't say what problems you are having in your marriage to need the retreat, which you also arranged. Do you discuss with her what she might like?

As far as not mentioning it for three days. It might not been as relaxing for her as you had hoped. Try preping her and involving her in the decission making and then see if her reaction is better.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

> Try preping her and involving her in the decission making and then see if her reaction is better.


Agreed. You might try asking her sometime during the day that you'd like to do something special for her to help her relax and ask her if she has any suggestions? 



> It was the first massage she has let me give her in a couple of years, and she is generally not receptive to affection, including touch.


So, is this something new you tried? If it's an out-of-the-norm type of thing for you to do, it might have seemed weird. Especially if she's not fond of touch to begin with. I know it sounds pretty nice, but if my husband suddenly out-of-the-blue did something like this, I'd wonder what was up. Sounds silly, but...


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I would love what you did for your W, but I'm just wondering about a few details...


Is it usual for your 6 and 10 year old daughters to be in bed and asleep by 7.30pm? The reason I ask is because perhaps your W was concerned that you would be interrupted by them, because it did sound rather early for them to be tucked away in bed.


You mention that your W had been ill. Was she still unwell when you planned this highly romantic evening? If I returned home at 7.30pm, feeling tired, ill and hungry, food, shower, meds then bed would be upper most in my mind...


I'm sorry your plans fell flat, because it sounds like you put a lot of thought and effort into it.


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

This honestly is hard to answer because everyone is different. However if it was me I would have went to the bedroom and told my hubs that I would brb. Then I would go to the bathroom get cleaned up and ready for a niice relaxing evening and know that he is going to pamper me and afterwards we would lead into making love=) Like I said though, this is what I would do in this scenario and every one is different.


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## Whiner (May 22, 2013)

I have to agree with kag123. I need time to switch gears. I'm an introvert and after a tough day with lots of people, I mostly want a bit of time alone--and drive time doesn't count! I think you made a lovely gesture but, if it had been me, my not-so-worthy thought would be something like, "oh, great, someone else I have to please." I seldom trust a "thoughtless gesture," but that's my own hang up! Good luck!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Aitrus I was thinking about this post some more. I hope you don't mind me returning to your thread. It sounds as though resentment is seeping in for you...keeping tabs on the fact that she hasn't thanked you for the massage 3 days later. The first non-verbal communication she gave you was bypassing the note and not acknowledging you and your efforts. I agree with kag she could have handled this better about communicating a rain-check or even acknowledging what you'd tried to do for her. She didn't come and see you, she continued on and avoided you.

You can't change her but what could you have done differently for yourself, so that you wouldn't feel this potential resentment afterwards? Calm, assertive. You heard her go straight to the kitchen to make her snack. At that point you knew she'd bypassed your romantic note. Instead of waiting for her, could you have gone to the kitchen and calmly yet assertively expressed you were surprised to hear her in the kitchen as you were waiting to give her a relaxing evening? Communicated in a loving way, remembering you're meant to be on the same team and all you'd wanted to do was give her a relaxing night. To express how you felt without it needing to be argumentative and perhaps without expectation of her response. Basically to allow you to be open to express what you're feeling in that moment, rather than trying to push ahead with your plan when all her signals indicated that's not what she wanted, and then left you feeling however it is that you're feeling now... and questioning why you didn't receive a thanks days later. Perhaps it also could help open healthy dialogue between you whereby she can express how she was feeling too. 

You mentioned that you take care of majority of the chores to help support her study. Do you feel she appreciates the support or are you feeling taken for granted?


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

I would have loved it, personally. Based on what you describe, I think her actions were rude and ungrateful. Even if she needed some time to unwind or she wanted to do other things first, she was being very rude and unappreciative, borderline mean even. She brushed by you without even a word?! Who would treat their spouse that way? Especially a spouse who has just gone out of their way to plan something nice for her.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Hmmm this is a difficult one because on the face of it it really does sound like a lovely, well thought out thing to do. On the other hand I wouldn't want it as soon as I walked in the door - I'd want a glass of wine and something to eat and just a cuddle and a chat for a while. Even if sex wasn't the expected end point did she realise that? 

Having said this I think the way she handled it was all wrong and pretty disrespectful. It sounds to me like she's absorbed in this school thing and is allowing herself to detach from you. It doesn't sound like she's part of the household - perhaps she is feeling that?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Had sex once in 9 months ?

Does she take your help/support for granted ? It sounds like that from your post. You are being a borderline maid. Maybe it wouldn't look so bad if she appreciated the work you did during this but it does not look like that.

Disclaimer: Not a lady


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Had she not been sick and had the long day she had then perhaps she would have reacted differently (or maybe not -- I don't know). But she didn't really want to participate that night and didn't view your thoughtful gesture in the same light that you did. 

Perhaps she feels she did you a favor by allowing you to massage her when she really didn't want to and so she feels it doesn't need to be mentioned further. 

The question is why is she so detached.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with what you did.

Many woman would have loved what you did, and many women would also do similar things for you.

What you did was great, just maybe for the wrong woman.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

This is on you.

She sent clear signals that she wasn't interested in you and you were nice anyway.

She takes you for granted because you allow it.

Right gesture for the wrong woman.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Please let that be the last time you do anything like that again unless maybe she does something like that for you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you'll find she also will complain down the road that you never make any effort to romance or please her.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Aitrus said:


> Ladies, I have a situation for you that I'd greatly appreciate your views on. I did something special for my wife the other evening, and I'm wondering if her reaction was appropriate for the situation.
> 
> Background: you are currently enrolled in a full-time 1-year Master's program at a university 30 minutes away. You attend classes every day from 8am until 4pm, with 2 nights a week going to 7 or 8. You have a total of about 20 hours of homework a week. This has been your life for the past 11 months. Your husband has taken care of all household functioning except shopping and you tag-team the laundry (along with the oldest daughter) . This would include his handling everything relating to your 6 and 10 year old daughters, and he securely holds down a 60k a year government job. He has also recently taken you on a 3-day 2-night marriage retreat on the Cascade Mountains, which you returned from less than a week ago, because he wished the two of you to address some intimacy and relationship problems at this seminar. Since your return he has not pressured you to talk about the issues, the relationship, the retreat or tried to initiate sex. You have also been feeling under the weather lately, unable to sleep well because of your coughing and achy body.
> 
> ...


If Mr. Pink did that I'd still be naked and grinding away on his lap!


Reminds me of a joke I heard a while ago..

Wife comes home to a darkened home. She sees lit candles everywhere and notices a trail of rosé petals leading her from the front to to the kitchen where there is a glass a wine waiting for her. The leads into the bedroom where the rose petals are all over the bed. She puts her hands on her hips and says, "Who's going to scrape the melted wax off the kitchen floor and clean up smashed rose petals off the carpet?"

I' so sorry your wife wasn't able to get into the moment with you. It seems like the issues in your marriage are pretty deep for her.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

I realize I'm a dude, but I read the OP and felt compelled to comment. Hope OP comes back, lots of really, really good responses here.

Obviously I'm speaking from a guy's perspective and based on my own experiences with women and my W in particular.

First, I understand that after such a long day, OP's W was not in the mood to be seduced or pampered. I think we've all been there before. Given that, OP's description of how she acted painted a pretty unappreciative picture. The decent thing to do would have been to say, "Thank you so much for going to all this trouble, sweety! I'm sorry, I'm not feeling it tonight, but why don't we set aside some time this weekend just for us!"

Regardless, OP, I think your problem was one of subtlety. When your W walked in the door, instead of seeing all the trouble you went to in your intentions to seduce and/or pamper her, maybe all she saw was a thinly-veiled request for sex. To her, that would have seemed like one more thing she had to take care of before bed. This would be amplified if you guys are already having issues with your sex life.

I say that from painful learned experience. When my W doesn't want to be seduced, she does not react well to overt sexual advances. This is where the art of reading your W comes in handy, and you should have already learned those cues.

Next time, try being more subtle about the whole thing. Don't bombard her with all the overt seductive/pampering stuff. My W likes that stuff more when we've set aside a time for it, not so much on the fly. After a long day, my W responds much better to me pouring her a glass of wine, getting dinner ready, listening to her b!tch about her day, maybe drawing a bath for her. During none of that do I make a big show about any of it. My experience has been that that's a much better way to make my W more amenable to sex (or even pampering) later in the evening.

Also, when our sex life sucked, my W interpreted _everything_ as a subtle request for sex. The only way I got her off of that nonsense was to do all of the above but intentionally not have sex.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

I also agree with Kag. 

I think instead of asking whether or not your wife's actions were "appropriate", you need to first ask if YOUR actions were "appropriate". After all, you wrote that your wife has not been feeling well...that her body is 'achy'...and that she's not really into 'touch' anyway. 

So why would you chose to give her a massage which involves 'touch'? 

She asked you if she could leave her panties on and you said, "no". If Dr. Phil is right in saying that 90% of our questions are really statements in disguise, then your wife was TELLING you that she didn't want to take her panties off. She even said "What if the butt doesn't want to be massaged?" That's a *hint* to you that SHE doesn't want to receive what YOU want to 'give'. 

When it comes to gift-giving--either giving a tangible gift or an intangible gift, such as time--the gift-giver has to make sure that the other person actually WANTS the gift that YOU want to give. If you're going to try and 'give' something to someone that they may not wish to receive, who, in that case are you REALLY trying to please? 

Also, it seems like you may have other issues going on that are not resolved. Your wife may not be feeling very 'connected' to you for other reasons, and what you did (massage) may be just one more way in which she feels disconnect. She may have felt more connected if you left the rose (sans the note) and greeted her at the top of the stairs for her to see her favorite old bed clothes layed out on a bed with the covers turned down. You may have left a menu of items on her nightstand, asking her to 'check off' what she wants (sleep, orange juice, Nyquil, Tylenol, a book to read (with maybe a small gift of a nightlight she can attach to the book). 

It seems like there's much more going on in your relationship that needs to be addressed BEFORE considering some romantic sensual massages...

Vega


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

To me, the OP's wife not liking what he set up is not the point. The point is she was rude and unkind about the whole thing IMO. There are far nicer ways she could have handled it.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Had sex once in 9 months ?
> 
> Does she take your help/support for granted ? It sounds like that from your post. You are being a borderline maid. Maybe it wouldn't look so bad if she appreciated the work you did during this but it does not look like that.
> 
> Disclaimer: Not a lady


This stood out to me too, and the fact that she wanted to keep her panties on, tells me even though you MEANT for it to simply be a relaxing night for her, she took it that you wanted sex, and it was a set up and that was why the entire thing was rejected... IF you have sex issues, then completely naked touch like that, needs to be built up to. Did she agree to this in the aforementioned emails? Or was it supposed to be talk time? Despite, kids not interupting, I know if my kids are awake, it's very hard for me to relax at all... massage, or no massage.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> I realize I'm a dude, but I read the OP and felt compelled to comment. Hope OP comes back, lots of really, really good responses here.
> 
> Obviously I'm speaking from a guy's perspective and based on my own experiences with women and my W in particular.
> 
> ...


I hadn't read your response when I replied, but you are dead on, that is exactly what OP experienced


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## Pam (Oct 7, 2010)

He said she is 11 months into a 12-month program; she has to feel like she is walking on her knees right now, with a whole month left to go. Add that to having been sick, and still not feeling well; she walks into the house and meets somebody else's expectation of her. No matter what he actually had planned, she is tired, achy, hungry, and just doesn't like to be touched, but it's easier to just let him do it. She isn't going to be grateful, she going to want to continue on the road to sleep. Possibly, three days later, she is still trying to gather words together to discuss this, and how he could set the scene a little better next time.


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## Aitrus (Mar 25, 2013)

Thank you all for your well-thought-out responses. I truly appreciate them. And I apologize for not responding sooner, this weekend was my National Guard weekend. I wasn't able to take the time to answer, although I was able to pop in now and again to see what was being said and to think about it.

Dave is absolutely right. I spoke with my wife this weekend about what happened, and she said essentially what you outlined. She knew I didn't want sex, but did feel pressured into giving in to the massage out of sheer tiredness. She felt very thankful for the rubdown after it was done, but beforehand didn't really want anything but food and sleep. She apologized for not saying anything meaningful to demonstrate her thanks, and blamed the fatigue.

She also apologized further by stepping into the shower with me this morning (after I was already in) to demonstrate just how sorry she was that she didn't say anything, accosting me and eventually pulling me to the bedroom. I must say, I was surprised. She hasn't initiated like that in many, many months. Our sex count for the last 12 months is 5, including this morning.

Many of you have stated that we have deeper issues, and you are right. Our issues revolve around intimacy and my being too much of a Nice Guy Beta male. The end symptom is that she feels "inadequate", so she doesn't feel like having sex, but professes to love having sex with me. My needs and desires are normal and healthy, and what I expect in intimacy is what any normal husband would reasonably expect in an intimate relationship with his wife. Much of what she feels "inadequate" and / or "degraded" and / or "morally compromised" about are things that we did when we were married and in the first year of our marriage.

The issues are twofold: In the first place, I'm too much of a Nice Guy Beta, and all that those words entail. I believe I'm not creating a loving and safe atmosphere for her to work through her inhibitions. And from this episode, I've learned that I also need to be more subtle, gentle, and not so pushy.

The other half of the equation is that she is not willing to address those inhibitions, and feels "inadequate" because I'm not satisfied with what she does do. But that's another rabbithole I may consider running down in the Sex in Marriage section.

How this massage scenario works in is that in an effort to kickstart the "let's work on us" effort, I took advantage of a free marriage retreat being sponsored by my military unit, which happened 2 weekends ago. One of the things that came out of the retreat is that the men need to initiate romance and sex in virtually all instances. This massage setup was a fledgling, not-so-subtle attempt to initiate romance. I thought it would be a good first step. I was wrong. 

At another time, when there are fewer priorities on her plate and more open sinus passages, this would go over better - her words.


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

Well I am glad that she apologized and it seems that you know what is going on now. I hope you two can work through your issues and like I said before, I wish you nothing but the best of luck.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Aitrus, thanks for coming back and responding with an update. I also wish you and your wife the best. I hope you can both keep that open communication flowing.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

"It was the first massage she has let me give her in a couple of years, and she is generally not receptive to affection, including touch."

Could this be your simple answer? Maybe she was just really tired, and was even less receptive than usual?


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

> At another time, when there are fewer priorities on her plate and more open sinus passages, this would go over better - her words.


Yup, timing, it's often everything. 

Glad you got some resolution in this matter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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