# Non-employed spouses in single income houses



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

The question I'm going to ask can absolutely blow up in my face if I don't set this up correctly, so bear with me while I set context.

First, this is purely on an "Intellectual curiosity" level. I'm not in crisis here.

Second, I'm not making any accusations nor generalizations.

Third, my mind has been put into busy mode by my Chinese Language Teacher today, and this is building on an observation she gave me. You have to understand, she has never been outside of China. Her world view is very different from what I normally encounter in the US (which is part of why I like to talk with her during classes - our conversations are most interesting when she begins to give me her view on things). She's somewhat aware of US ideas of political correctness, but it's not a part of her life normally.

I think I have it set up so that nobody will get upset, so on to the question.

She is always very complimentary to me about m pronunciation and how I began to learn Mandarin - almost to the point of being flattering sometimes. During the course of our discussion today, she took some time to describe some of the situations she goes to to teach. Americans who come to China to work, and who have individual attention from a professional instructor tend to be of a certain level or above in their companies and their incomes - I realize this part, and I think this plays into her observation. When she goes into these situations to instruct, she typically teaches the husband, the wife, and any children, and she will often teach them separately. The thing is, I think that people who fall into the demographic I'm describing normally are one-income houses because they are of a level where one income can support the family easily, and to be mobile enough to stay in these types of jobs, one spouse stops working so he/she can travel easily with the other spouse. This last part describes our family - my wife is brilliant, and capable, but when I was offered a mobile job, I was paid enough that we only needed one income, and she decided she wanted to follow me on the trips rather than continue to work.

Now to the observation: My language instructor made the observation that very often, the professional that she teaches in these situations is very smart and learns the language very quickly. But the non-working spouse usually very quickly becomes frustrated and discouraged and cannot continue in the language, and never really progresses to be able to make use of the language in everyday life. From her observation, she concludes that when people stop working, they no longer have the level of mental challenge, they no longer have to overcome problems of the same level of difficulty, and as a result, they begin to lose their mental sharpness, their tenacity, and eventually even the curiosity necessary to drive learning. 

That's possible, but I think there are also other possibilities. I think I read a perception on here that successful people may actually attract someone who wants, or possibly needs to be a little more dependent. I think there is a perception on here that maybe the successful person may actually want someone who is a little more dependent. I usually reject that, but I'm willing to revisit my thoughts on that.

It also makes me think because ... women often outlive their husbands. I always try to set my wife up well in case something was to happen to me. I know she has been a successful business person where I haven't been, so I've always been confident she could do that again if I left her the means to get started again ... but the observation my Mandarin teacher gave me really makes me think ... 

I want my wife to maintain all of her mental sharpness, and she has shown no signs of deterioration that I can detect. I also like for us to be together, travel together, see things together, experience it together, etc. To be honest, I can go to the most beautiful place in the world, and if she's not with me, I don't enjoy it so much ... but if she is, all I need is one expression from her that lets me know she enjoyed it, and it's through the roof for me.

But I'm not asking specifically about us - that's just part of my background. What I'm asking is: Do you see this in anybody around you? Or have you experienced it even? Do your observations match the observations my Chinese teacher relayed to me?

If you have an experience personally, or with a friend like this, do you think it is losing mental edge by the non-employed spouse? or do you think there is an attraction of the personality types that just makes a successful career person and a dependent person attracted to each other? Do you have a thought I haven't even touched on yet?

No right or wrong answers here. I'm just looking for a broader set of opinions now that my Chinese teacher has me thinking along these lines ...


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

BTW: If anyone wants to ask me why I posted this in the Ladies' Lounge, it's just because it seemed like the right place to get good discussion on it. There is no accusation and no preferential treatment intended.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm an accomplished CPA - worked for 20 years, sharp as a tact and intelligent.

And then I got pregnant. 

I seemed to lose IQ points the moment I saw two lines on the pregnancy test. I continued to work for 3 years after my son was born and my mind never did come back to the level of sharpness it was before kids.

I'm now a homemaker and have been for 10 years.

My theory now is having kids cost me my mental edge more so than not working.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> I'm an accomplished CPA - worked for 20 years, sharp as a tact and intelligent.
> 
> And then I got pregnant.


Cute


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

The divine feminine expresses itself very differently from divine masculine. Masculine energy expresses as power, drive, competition whereas feminine energy is accommodation, cooperation, creativity and love. Many women today feel they need to express masculine qualities in order to feel successful in today's world. The world is patriarchal and therefore rewards masculine energy. The feminist movement hindered our ability to express divine femininity because now we are expected to be men only better (be bread winners, manage the house, be a sex kitten etc). It would have been wonderful if the feminist movement had lifted up the feminine power instead of squashing it. 

I think when a woman stays at home she is living in her feminine power. What you and others see as "giving up" or "not having a sharp mind" is based on a patriarchal value of drive and competition as being measures of success. Does it mean that women should sit around and do nothing? No. It just means that your wife is manifesting her power in other ways. Perhaps you could discuss it with her and find out how. Many women feel trapped in their masculine because as a woman it's not natural to be in this state 24/7 and we become drained, sexless and exhausted. I feel it is a true problem in our society and why so many marriages are sexless (from the female) and unsatisfying.

There is so much written on this topic and I find it so fascinating! It's definitely worth delving into


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

These days especially, there are so many things that you can do without having a paycheck at the end of it. 

In fact, in the UK here, the government keeps badgering people to work for free, whether for a charity or if you've just graduated (and irrespective of the debt breathing down your neck) the expectation is that if you want to work, you'll even work for free.

Information is abundantly available, many news shows on TV along side the mind numbing reality shows.

I've already dealt in my earlier life with Ms. Investment Banker or Ms. Lawyer who felt that befriending housewives are beneath them...... but befriending that housewife's husband was certainly a worthwhile pursuit.

Yes, I do have the intellectual capability to tell anyone who looks down on me because I don't pull a paycheck to F*ck Off.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I stayed at home for almost 7 years when I was married to my ex. I left collage, found a job, got married, quit my job, got pregnant, and stayed at home until my son was old enough to go to the kindergarten. I think I lost touch with the society. I used to be envious of the women who could dress up nicely and go to work. My life was around my son, that's it. I didn't feel like buying pretty clothes and wearing make up. I didn't feel like studying and keeping up with the news. All I was doing was taking care of my son. 

Then my son went to school, I went back to study English again, and found a job teaching English. I have been working for more than ten years. I have become a much more confident woman. My mind is much more active, and I can carry on a very deep conversation with my husband. I will never want to just stay at home even if our finance can afford it. It will be too boring for me. I will lose my confidence. I often tell my nieces, "Even if you find a rich husband, you still have to go to work. You will have more confidence and he will respect you more if you have your own job." 

Shy_guy, your situation is a little bit different, you travel a lot. It's not a good idea for a husband and wife to be away from each other a lot. So it's great that your wife is willing to sacrifice her career so she can be with you. As for me and my husband, we will just not look for jobs which will separate us.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

1.) I have to agree with Mavash in that I lost a TREMENDOUS amount of mental acuity after the birth of my child; this lasted for about 3 years and was unbelievably difficult. I had trouble recalling words (usually simple nouns like 'stereo', 'refrigerator', etc.). It was frustrating and scary; but it cured itself after a few years.

2.) I have a different theory. [Will use husband as working spouse, wife as SAH, but it works either way.] Husband, who is there for work, has an immediate need for the language and positive feedback (he is interacting well with co-workers and accomplishing more at work because he is becoming more fluent). There is IMMEDIATE PAYBACK for him.

Wife and kids, not so much. It may make her shopping trips easier, but that's not much of a payoff. The kids will still be made fun of or excluded somewhat by native-speakers (in general, we know how kids are!).

Perhaps the wife and kids are less excited about learning the language because they see less 'in it for them' than the husband. Perhaps after 3-5 years in China, they will be moving to Venezuela and everybody will have to learn Spanish! Again, big payoff for husband, not so much for everybody else. 

Maybe they're not enthralled with the move in general, but it's the price the wife pays for her wealthier, upwardly mobile husband. And the kids, of course, have no say.

I think it has more to do with intrinsic value and motivation (or lack of it) than mental/emotional dependency.


JMHO


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> These days especially, there are so many things that you can do without having a paycheck at the end of it.
> .


True. But not everyone is afforded the luxury of staying home and not working because they have to earn money to pay bills.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

I don't think it has anything to do with working or not working. I think it boils down to what a person is interested in and how it benefits them. 

I spent 7 years overseas with my husband. While there, I did not work. My husband was in the military and stayed as a civilian post military, so we had those American resources to take care of all our needs. Of course, we lived on the economy, where there are few who speak English, so at least limited knowledge of the language is beneficial. My husband never bothered to learn the language. Everyone at his job speaks English, therefore he did not think it was necessary. He clings to locals who speak English. He depended on me to communicate to those who did not. My knowledge was limited, but enough to communicate what was necessary. Our son is fluent in the language, because he was fully immersed. He participated in an activity and all his friends were locals and none of them spoke English. Since my husband never bothered to learn the language, does that mean he is less driven intellectually? What does working have to do with mental challenge? 

As I said previously, I did not work while living overseas. I did, however, home school our son. He had been lost in the cracks of public education and had learning disabilities. Through trial and error, I was able to help him overcome those disabilities to master very challenging curriculum. I had to teach myself some of those subjects before teaching him. My husband never took interest in learning, or teaching any of the subjects. I am curious. Is this lack of interest because his job has stalled his mental sharpness, stalled his intellectual drive, or because he was depending on me to do it? I don't see how having a job has anything to do with drive or mental sharpness. If I misunderstand the original question, I apologize.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> True. But not everyone is afforded the luxury of staying home and not working because they have to earn money to pay bills.


But then you are getting into another topic that I don't think was introduced in the original post.

I have never put down anyone for wanting to work or for feeling as if they need to work. And that last part is really a matter of opinion since some things like vacations, private school, extra clothes (even braces) and so forth.... at what point are these a luxury and at what point do they become a necessity? 

I will never make that decision for someone else (as long as they aren't hassling me for money).


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Everyone's needs are different. When I was home with my boys i definitely suffered mentally, but when I was teaching high school I also felt like I was rotting mentally because I'd studied such advanced topics on physics and didn't get to use them. I work in insurance now but the nature of my job can be quite challenging, and I get to use the same thought processes that I did in physics. Mentally it's night and day compared to when I was home, but that's just me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I'm an accomplished CPA - worked for 20 years, sharp as a tact and intelligent.
> 
> And then I got pregnant.
> 
> ...


There was actually a study done on this because so many women report this. The study found no differences in mental alertness or acuity post birth.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

FemBot said:


> There was actually a study done on this because so many women report this. The study found no differences in mental alertness or acuity post birth.


LOL then I must just be crazy.

When I was pregnant I had a very important meeting with my boss. Despite my best efforts to focus I felt like I was listening to the teacher on Charlie Brown. I could see his lips moving and knew it was important but I heard nothing. My brain was just....gone. :lol:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

FemBot said:


> There was actually a study done on this because so many women report this. The study found no differences in mental alertness or acuity post birth.


I tend to believe what people say about themselves. Why would she lie about her personal experience. Another women on here said that for about 3 years she had trouble recalling words, etc.

The experience of individuals can different than the statistical norm.

For example, the issue of not being able to recall words on occasion for a 3 year period could be caused by the stress of the new situation of having a child; it can be caused by vitamin/mineral deficiencies introduced by the pregnancy that took a few years to resolve.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> LOL then I must just be crazy.


I blame the kids, and can attest that it's a gender-neutral thing.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Here's other funnies.

Driving while pregnant. 

Stopped behind someone at a red light. Light turned green and I went. Ran right into the back of the car in front of me. 

Another time the low fuel light came on and I called my husband to ask what it meant. :lol:

Did I mention I'm a college educated woman? LOL

Thread jack over.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Yep, medical studies can produce whatever results they want. I *know* what happened to me!

Also, the last MALE gynecologist I had had the effrontery to tell me that the symptoms I had were "impossible". Had I been old and bytchy (like I am now), I would have gotten up, said, "We have nothing further to discuss.", and left. But, I was young, dumb and too polite! He was, however, the LAST MALE gynecologist I ever went to!

If so many women report it, why would studies NOT bear it out? Are pregnant or post-pregnant women deluded? I tend to think not! I am much more willing to believe the studies are flawed! Millions of people believed the world was flat, including EXPERTS; didn't make it so!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I see two distinct issues brought up in the OP. 1) people who do not care to put out the effort to learn the local language. 2) people who are stay at home spouses and the affect it can have on their mental acuity, ambition, etc.


A good part of my life was spent living in international communities. I saw people, both working and SAH who did not bother to learn the local language. These are people from many countries.


Most people only put out the effort to learn the local language if they have to in order to live their life and/or to earn a living. Many SAH spouses can function well without learning the local language because they associate mostly with others from their native country and their family members. They can hire household help that speaks enough of their own language to get by. They have family members who handle the translation when needed. Are they lazy? Less mentally acute? Etc? Or are they like most people and only do what they feel they need to do.


From my experience, the working spouse usually only makes great effort to learn the local language if it’s needed for their job. 

There are of course a few people like you Shy_Guy, like my father was fluent in 12 languages, who love language and love to learn it. When I was a child my father made sure that all 8 of his children learned the local languages. My mother had the same love of languages and cultures that my father did and she too always learned the local languages. I can think of about five languages that she spoke fluently. But her need for these languages was not the same as my father’s. My mother was busy raising 8 children and moving around the world with all of us to follow my father. 

He had to be completely fluent as he had to be able to speak, read and write in the languages and even pass himself off as a native speaker, so for him it was not just knowing the language but the dialects, accents, etc. 

ON the topic of if people lose mental acuity and whatever else when they do not work.
There are skills that people who go to work need that people who do not work do not need. I think that people who do not work lose those skills. They become less important. Again I’ve seen some people who seem to really dumb down once they no longer work. And I’ve seen people who find avenues to keep their mental abilities acute. It’s an individual thing.

There are issues for example with the chronically unemployed who get to the point that they lose the ability to work. I’ve watched this with my ex. He lost his very good job in IT, paying in the six figures in 2002 due to a world-wide layoff in the company he worked for.
Over time he quite job hunting because he never got an offer and is now complete unable to function. He spends his life playing computer games. My understanding is that a of people who lost their jobs since 2008 have become like this after they go a few years of not being able to find a job.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

I just wanted to throw the study out there because so many women report this but science doesn't back up the claim. It's bizarre! Of course studies can be wrong and I'm not trying to deny personal anecdotes because I too have suffered as well as a SAHD I know....just fodder for discussion 

I haven't returned to work since having children but find raising them much more mentally taxing.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

FemBot said:


> *I just wanted to throw the study out there because so many women report this but science doesn't back up the claim. * It's bizarre! Of course studies can be wrong and I'm not trying to deny personal anecdotes because I too have suffered as well as a SAHD I know....just fodder for discussion
> 
> I haven't returned to work since having children but find raising them much more mentally taxing.


HR professionals will tell you that there are many studies out there that prove that salary levels are NOT important when people seek paid employment.

Imagine that.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

The studies would make me wonder *who* funded them? What answers were they hoping to find?

Is it possible that they were funded by people who did NOT want to find that women (even pregnant women) were less capable (even temporarily) because it would fly in the face of their beliefs or their agenda? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows. But it would be telling to know who funds the studies; that is something that it's ALWAYS good to know. Helps you know where to look for the bias.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> The studies would make me wonder *who* funded them? What answers were they hoping to find?
> 
> Is it possible that they were funded by people who did NOT want to find that women (even pregnant women) were less capable (even temporarily) because it would fly in the face of their beliefs or their agenda? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows. But it would be telling to know who funds the studies; that is something that it's ALWAYS good to know. Helps you know where to look for the bias.


It could be that the study was accurate. Women do not actually lose any cognitive ability. They are just stressed, tired, focused on non-cognitive tasks, etc and thus feel like they do.

So the study only tells part of the story.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I lost some of my mental sharpness for a while when I became a SAHM all those years ago. Whilst I loved caring for our child and taking care of the home, I missed the mental stimulation I was used to. Also, after the birth of my son I found it vaguely odd the way I was somehow only expected to want to talk about colic, diapers and recipes!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> From my experience, the working spouse usually only makes great effort to learn the local language if it’s needed for their job.


This is very true. My husband doesn't try hard to learn Chinese here because his job doesn't require him to use Chinese. He says as long as he can order meals and ask directions in Chinese, it's enough. A lot of other westerners are the same. But the Mormons and Witnesses speak perfect Chinese after they come here for a year or two. I have to respect them for the effort they make. 

When I move to a new place where the language is different, I will try hard to study the language because I need to talk to local people, watch local TV, and go shopping. I lived in Guang Dong for two years, and that forced me to learn Cantonese even though we also speak Chinese. Here in Taiwan I learned Taiwanese as well so people don't dare say bad things about me right in front of me. 

I find watching local TV shows is a very good way to learn their language.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

I'm not sure who funded the study it was cited in my magazine Scientific America so might not even be scientifically valid who knows!

I tend to agree with the idea that lack of mental acuity is a perception that women have because they lack sleep, change their priorities etc. i truly do not believe having kids kills brain cells or kills neurological cognitive pathways. It just doesn't make logical sense....but that's just me


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I blame it hormones.

It's why teenagers do stupid things right?


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I blame it hormones.
> 
> It's why teenagers do stupid things right?


Well actually they do stupid things because of an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex! The prefrontal cortex helps you make decisions based on future consequences. So teens lack judgement that comes with a more developed brain.

I do agree with the hormone idea though. Prolactin can have affects on brain and behavior for example. It might be why as new moms we can be so neurotic


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Coffee I was like that before I got pregnant so I too became someone else. Lol

I wasn't even happier. I was kinda stressed. I liked being pregnant though it was just hard juggling everything by myself. My husband worked an opposite shift than me.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Coffee I was like that before I got pregnant so I too became someone else. Lol
> 
> I wasn't even happier. I was kinda stressed. I liked being pregnant though it was just hard juggling everything by myself. My husband worked an opposite shift than me.


Mavash, that was while I was pregnant. I became my chaotic self after.  Oddly it happened again with the second pregnancy too. Crazy Hormones!

That is tough when you work opposite shifts we did that too, only I was the one with the erratic schedule.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> I blame it hormones.
> 
> It's why teenagers do stupid things right?


Hormones are only part of the reason that teenagers do stupid things. The other part is very important, the human brain is not completely matured until about age 26. Teens often make bad decisions because they quite simply do not have the brain power to do it.


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## Dahlia92 (Dec 31, 2012)

I think there are a couple of separate issues here.

The first one is about leraning the language and I agree that the person there on business and the spouse have two totally different motivations for learning the langauge. I work for a large global company and I have actually heard conversations about ex pats to the tune of so and so has been plant manager in such and such a country for x long and they still haven't learned the language and they don't really know what their employees are doing on the shop floor or visit a site in another country and the major performance metrics are in English when no one on the floor speaks it and you hear, oh it's like that for the plant manager, she/he doesn't speak x language. When I walk into a facility in China or Eastern Europe and I see things posted in English, I know it's not for the native poeple who work there and manage the business daily - it's for "the rest of us." Companies will get these people private tutors and provide them with all kinds of help because it impacts their performance. 

The spouse just doesn't have the same motivation. They can always rely on their spouse if they really have to. Most places you can muddle through at the shops if you really need to. How many spouses are really interested in learning a new language? Traveling, seeing the world, living in a different culture, sure, learning a new language more than to get by, that's a lot of work. Their spouse also has the advatage of engaging in conversation with native speakers all day, and that makes a big difference, too.

The language thing I think is a factor of motivation and need. Both spouses have different motivation and different needs to learn a new langauge.

So on the other topic, oh man, I had a case of what I call "mommy brain" while I was pregnant and for a while after each kid was born. I have a master's degree and a high level technical job. My husband found my car keys in the fridge during my first pregnancy, lol. I had the same problems with stringinng coherant sentences together, omg it was bad for a while. Same problem with remembering just basic words. I was only off work for 3 months for both of my kids, but I definitely had "mommy brain."

My husband was the stay at home parent in our family, he recently went back to work after being home for 7 years. He had a hard time with lack of adult conversation. He joined a couple of forums he enjoyed just to have intelligent conversations with people that didn't involve playing dollies or play doh. He is a very intelligent man and I realize now it was hard on him, especially when I had a busy travel schedule. He felt like he lost vocabulary skills while he wasn't working. So it does have an impact. But I don't think it's the cause of the ex pat spouses not picking up the language as quickly.

As far as the whole dependency thing, I don't necessarily think that's true either. I am the primary earner for our family, but my husband and I started dating when I was 19 and in college, there was no way to know that then and we certainly didn't expect my income to grow as fast as it did after I graduated. My husband, I realize now, really struggled with being dependant on me while he stayed home. He is much happier working and contributing. But he was adamantly against putting our kids in day care and we couldn't have even kept our house If I stayed home, so there really was no other choice.


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

Definitely agree with the posters who say its about immediate need. I am not good at languages at all, even though I travel extensively throughout the middle east. However, whenever Im in country and need to figure out where I am going, all the vocabulary I know and everything comes pouring out. Now, put me in a language classroom and I will be like..huh?! For some reason, until I need to communicate, the language just doesn't really stick.

I think that it also depends on the way a person spends their "free time" as to whether or not they keep that mental edge. I know my mother is a big TV watcher and will never pick up a book. She also won't play mental games on her phone if they are even remotely challenging. She swears that since she stopped working her previous that was difficult to an easier job, she just doesnt have the same brain power any more.

Maybe you could encourage your wife to pick up hobbies and volunteer activities that promote good brain function.


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## I'm The Prize (May 22, 2012)

I have been a stay at home mom/wife for 31 years. It was more than a little necessary since my husband was in the Navy and was gone most of the time. With 3 kids to raise, 2 of whom had learning disabilities, I had to be available for their needs. I have not lost my sharpness at all. As a matter of fact, while my children were young I ran my own daycare business, went to school 3 nights a week, and worked in a deli on Sat. and Sun. 8 hours each. 
I went to school to get a degree in Computer Electronics. I never did well in high school science or math yet I graduated with an A average. I find that the older I get my thought process has changed but I wouldn't say it is the sharpness. Actually, it is the quickness. Not because my brain is now slower but as I've aged I have learned to give more thought to what I think, say, and do. I believe that makes me tend to be more accurate in thought than when I was younger. I make fewer mistakes.
I also believe that the effects some of the ladies described during pregnancy and during the years their children were young may very well be attributed to lack of sleep. Even men who are in high paying jobs will fold if they miss enough sleep.
I think a man's preference of dependent or not dependent is individual and not based on their intellect or success. Personality has more to do with the choice than those factors. My husband is successful in his job. Yet I guarantee that I can run intellectual circles around him. By the way, I still didn't have a job on D-Day. I didn't say I was a genius now did I?


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

greenpearl said:


> I lived in Guang Dong for two years, and that forced me to learn Cantonese even though we also speak Chinese.


Our adopted daughter is from Guangdong!


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

FemBot said:


> The divine feminine expresses itself very differently from divine masculine. Masculine energy expresses as power, drive, competition whereas feminine energy is accommodation, cooperation, creativity and love. Many women today feel they need to express masculine qualities in order to feel successful in today's world. The world is patriarchal and therefore rewards masculine energy. The feminist movement hindered our ability to express divine femininity because now we are expected to be men only better (be bread winners, manage the house, be a sex kitten etc). It would have been wonderful if the feminist movement had lifted up the feminine power instead of squashing it.
> 
> I think when a woman stays at home she is living in her feminine power. What you and others see as "giving up" or "not having a sharp mind" is based on a patriarchal value of drive and competition as being measures of success. Does it mean that women should sit around and do nothing? No. It just means that your wife is manifesting her power in other ways. Perhaps you could discuss it with her and find out how. Many women feel trapped in their masculine because as a woman it's not natural to be in this state 24/7 and we become drained, sexless and exhausted. I feel it is a true problem in our society and why so many marriages are sexless (from the female) and unsatisfying.
> 
> There is so much written on this topic and I find it so fascinating! It's definitely worth delving into


Wow, totally agree with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> These days especially, there are so many things that you can do without having a paycheck at the end of it.
> 
> In fact, in the UK here, the government keeps badgering people to work for free, whether for a charity or if you've just graduated (and irrespective of the debt breathing down your neck) the expectation is that if you want to work, you'll even work for free.


A bit incongruous when you come to think about it. Slavery was abolished years ago, but people are now being encouraged to work for free!

I can see that work is better than no work, as it can open up more opportunities etc, but it also encourages the unscrupulous to take without giving anything in return.

I'm all for doing things for charity (and have done my fair share of that), but when the cupboards are bare - charity begins at home!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> A bit incongruous when you come to think about it. Slavery was abolished years ago, but people are now being encouraged to work for free!
> 
> I can see that work is better than no work, as it can open up more opportunities etc, but it also encourages the unscrupulous to take without giving anything in return.
> 
> I'm all for doing things for charity (and have done my fair share of that), but when the cupboards are bare - charity begins at home!


Since you're in England, then perhaps you have an opinion on how the government which gives a job seekers allowance to people who sign on as unemployed AND looking, decided to hold that GBP65 per week payment over their heads if they did not work for the likes of some very large and highly profit making companies such as Tesco, Pound Store and Morrisons.

I listen to talk radio non stop which my fiance thinks is too right wing. Everytime this topic came up, I would email the radio presenter asking why aren't small businesses at least able to benefit from this scheme. 

Of course, while the radio presenters defended the idea that companies like Tesco and Argos could benefit from free labour provided by the government, no ever addressed the possibility that if this scheme were to continue, at least local businesses could benefit.


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