# Is it True ? For you ? For your husband ?



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

My W and I recently had a discussion in which I told her "I wish you liked me..."..... she answered "...I do like you..."....

But as the discussion came to an abrupt end, I started to wonder..... she must be able to separate what she does from who she is. I can't. What I do is who I am. It is not possible for me to accept criticism of what I have done, without considering it a personal insult. If someone doesn't like what I do, he/she doesn't like me.

This got further confirmed the next day..... she asked me why I was so unhappy..... I "should" be concentrating on "retirement" and "having fun"..... I told her that for me, there is no "fun" unless there is accomplishment. Retirement accomplishes nothing, therefore, it is not possible to have fun in retirement. There has to be a goal, something to do, something to get done.....

"Thank you for doing that" is meaningless, when said in a context of negative statements about how "that" was done.

I wonder if this is true for other couples......


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Not sure exactly what you're looking for here. You seem to have a few issues at play.

1. Whether or not one can offer criticism to someone they actually like/love.

The answer is yes. But tone and context are critical.

2. Can you separate who you are from what you do.

Some can quite easily, some not so much. That's a very individual thing and there is no single most path. You manage you and understand that it's perfectly okay for your wife to be different. I'm like you while my wife says there's a reason we're called "human _beings_" and not "human _doings_." We coexist happily and take joy in the diversity of our outlooks.

3. Can you retire and still be you.
This seems to be the crux. Big life change, and a potentially scary one for us human doings. 

_But it need not be._

Retirement need not be synonymous with loss of productivity. So much more you can do, and do without the shackles of employment dictating your schedule! Whether its something selfish like pouring yourself into a hobby and become a true master of it or something noble like volunteering, you can so soooooo much!!!

Or maybe you could just spend more time with your wife. If she's looking forward to your retirement as much as it sounds like, it'll likely she may consider that the most productive use of your time and energy possible! (No matter how hard that may be for you to fathom) After all, what higher calling could you serve than making your wife happy, especially after all those years she waited while you were being "productive?"


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

TJW said:


> My W and I recently had a discussion in which I told her "I wish you liked me..."..... she answered "...I do like you..."....
> 
> But as the discussion came to an abrupt end, I started to wonder..... she must be able to separate what she does from who she is. I can't. What I do is who I am. It is not possible for me to accept criticism of what I have done, without considering it a personal insult. If someone doesn't like what I do, he/she doesn't like me.
> 
> ...


Very interesting. 
What I do is definitely NOT who I am. I regularly do things I definitely do not like doing because they simply need to be done. 

I assume people who criticise what I have done do so because they want to see me do better. I see it as an honour to have people like that round me. 

If someone insults me, they would have to tell me they are doing so else I would not know that they were insulting me. I have been insulted in the street by strangers, but that is different.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

If your wife burned your chicken and you told her you don't like burned chicken, does that mean you don't like her? Is she supposed to take it as a personal insult that you don't like burned chicken?


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

I would ask why I feel I have to be productive, and have goals.

Even learning to enjoy quiet time can be a productive goal, and an accomplishment in itself.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Just like my mom used to tell me when I was misbehaving: Lucy, I love you, but I don't love your behavior.

I feel the same way about my husband and he feels the same way about me. We both do plenty of things that grate on eachothers' nerves, or we make mistakes. But that doesn't mean we don't love eachother. If we didn't, that would be a shallow conditional love, wouldn't it?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm like you - not the retirement sort. If you don't want to retire then don't. 



MaiChi said:


> I assume people who criticise what I have done do so because they want to see me do better. I see it as an honour to have people like that round me.


What an amazing attitude.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

TJW said:


> Retirement accomplishes nothing.....


I'm not quite willing to go that far, but it's interesting to note the amount of men, who upon retiring, have lost a ''purpose'' to life, ( ie. a reason to get up in the morning), and pass away not long after. I find this sad.

If/when I retire, I'll be mindful to keep busy (....and no, Wife, I DON'T need any suggestions, I'll figure it out myself!)


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

It is not possible for me to accept criticism of what I have done, without considering it a personal insult. If someone doesn't like what I do, he/she doesn't like me."

I call foul. It's fine not to like criticism, few people actually like it. But the above rationale is just not realistic. This sounds like tressel twisting to make it OK to demand that no one ever criticize you. You need to work on this thought process because it is not reasonable.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Is she supposed to take it as a personal insult that you don't like burned chicken?


I would eat some of it anyway, and I would not say anything, because I do like her, and I do love her, and protecting her feelings is important to me.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TJW said:


> Blondilocks said:
> 
> 
> > Is she supposed to take it as a personal insult that you don't like burned chicken?
> ...


 In other words, you expect someone to never criticize you and you expect to never be wrong.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

TJW said:


> I would eat some of it anyway, and I would not say anything, because I do like her, and I do love her, and protecting her feelings is important to me.


Honesty is the epitome of love. Hiding truth is far from showing love. 
Constructive criticism is necessary for improvement, and can actually show someone love.

Ever seen a child cry when they find out there is no santa? Talk about a destruction of trust. If they can't trust the ones who are supposed to be looking after them, and in love be truthful, who can they trust.

As for people loosing purpose, or needing tangible accomplishments do they not suffer from a version of institutionalization, much the same as one who has spent years in prison, always going back to that which provided structure?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

TJW said:


> I would eat some of it anyway, and I would not say anything, because I do like her, and I do love her, and protecting her feelings is important to me.


And, she would be sitting there thinking "Gawd, what is wrong with this man? Does he think I'm such a snowflake that he can't even say 'What's with the over done chicken?'. Ignoring the elephant in the room doesn't make it disappear - it just means you'll need to get an extra large pooper-scooper to clean up the mess. 

Tell your wife and let her get to know the real you.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I was married to someone who could not accept any criticism, or even disagreement, without feeling as if he was being subjected to a vicious personal attack - and reacting accordingly. It took years for me to realize that there really just was _no_ perfect tone, _no_ right words, _no_ way to say anything even remotely critical to him about anything to do with himself, his choices, actions, decisions or behaviors, that would allow him to accept those words without feeling attacked. At the same time, his criticisms of me were most often couched as a personal attack. He saw no difference between a mild disagreement or criticism and a personal attack, so he made none of those distinctions when criticizing or disagreeing with me. There really was just no way to have a real conversation, no way to have honest communication, with him about anything important. "We" were happy so long as I agreed with him on _everything_ and never, ever, criticized anything he said, did, thought or wanted. He wasn't a terrible person, but he was a pretty poor relationship partner. 

I eventually also came to realize that this trait in him was partly just the way he was wired. But a huge part of it was also rooted in poor self-esteem, coupled with profound self-centeredness.

So, OP, why do you feel attacked when your wife is critical of something you do? Is her tone harsh and mean? Or are you really not able to accept criticism from someone who loves you? Is there a way for your wife to say what she feels without setting off your defenses? If so, marriage counseling might work to help you two navigate that. But if some honest thought leads to the realization that there's no way for her to temper her words so that you don't feel attacked, then perhaps some IC might be more helpful. You need to figure out why you can't accept criticism from someone who loves you. 

And if you hate being retired, get another job or find a hobby or volunteer project you love, so that you continue to feel productive. But if you just hate retirement because it puts you spending more time with your wife, and you don't like that...well, that's something else to think about. You say your wife doesn't like you. Do you like your wife?


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

TJW said:


> I would eat some of it anyway, and I would not say anything, because I do like her, and I do love her, and protecting her feelings is important to me.


So your belief is that if someone doesn't mollycoddle you, they don't actually care.

I think you're the one with the issue sir.

What you're being in the example above is dishonest. If you want your relationship with your wife to be more than pretense, then you should be genuine with her.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

The key OP is balance. You: Strong self esteem that recognizes your value and allows for criticism. Wife: Manage criticism so as not to be mean, hurtful or excessive. Ya know?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

TJW said:


> ..... I "should" be concentrating on "retirement" and "having fun"..... I told her that for me, there is no "fun" unless there is accomplishment. Retirement accomplishes nothing, therefore, it is not possible to have fun in retirement. There has to be a goal, something to do, something to get done.....


I'll weigh in as a retired person. I am having fun right now, and all I'm doing is sipping a Manhattan and enjoying the 80-plus degree weather. Retirement accomplishes as much as the retiree wishes. I go to the gym four times a week. I took up boxing. I just started volunteering at a no-kill cat sanctuary. After @EleGirl mentioned Meetup here, I've gone to several dine-arounds - both vegan and carnivore. Met some great folks.

See, I get one helluva kick out of just living. From the bizarre to the mundane, it doesn't matter. As Auntie Mame said, "Life is a banquet and most of the poor suckers out there are starving."

Seriously.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

TJW said:


> I would eat some of it anyway, and I would not say anything, because I do like her, and I do love her, and protecting her feelings is important to me.


Um...that's crazy. Thank God I have been surrounded by people in my life that offer constructive criticism instead of pretending that I'm perfect.

Wait, I mean...that's great. Wonderful insight. Don't change a thing. You totally rock. Or whatever it is that you want to hear.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> I'll weigh in as a retired person. I am having fun right now, and all I'm doing is sipping a Manhattan and enjoying the 80-plus degree weather. Retirement accomplishes as much as the retiree wishes. I go to the gym four times a week. I took up boxing. I just started volunteering at a no-kill cat sanctuary. After @EleGirl mentioned Meetup here, I've gone to several dine-arounds - both vegan and carnivore. Met some great folks.
> 
> See, I get one helluva kick out of just living. From the bizarre to the mundane, it doesn't matter. As Auntie Mame said, "Life is a banquet and most of the poor suckers out there are starving."
> 
> Seriously.


Where I live we have Master Gardeners, Tree Stewards and sever other similar organizations that are run through grants at state universities. It's mostly older people. If any retired person is interested in gardening, check out your local Master Gardeners. They are programs run by state university agricultural departments. Here the programs are very active doing things like helping school kids grow vegetable gardens, teaching horticulture/gardening classes to the public, serving as the horticulture staff for the county parks division, and we even have a group that runs a fully volunteer run farm that grows/donates about 40,000 lbs of fresh produce to local food banks. That's just a few of the things we.


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## HDC (Nov 8, 2017)

There is “constructive criticism” and then there is “tear you down criticism”. I’ve seen both, one helps you be a better person by bringing things to your attention and encouraging you to be better. The other is a way that certain people keep you beat down and make sure you know that you can never be good enough. It’s so dependent on the person doing the criticizing.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

HDC said:


> The other is a way that certain people keep you beat down and make sure you know that you can never be good enough.


Controlled by fear, need to prove their superiority. Need to "wear the pants", and to make sure you know it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Oh, and BTW, I have a job interview in an hour. Always wanted to work in robotics. Maybe I get my chance.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Rowan said:


> I was married to someone who could not accept any criticism, or even disagreement, without feeling as if he was being subjected to a vicious personal attack - and reacting accordingly. It took years for me to realize that there really just was _no_ perfect tone, _no_ right words, _no_ way to say anything even remotely critical to him about anything to do with himself, his choices, actions, decisions or behaviors, that would allow him to accept those words without feeling attacked. At the same time, his criticisms of me were most often couched as a personal attack. He saw no difference between a mild disagreement or criticism and a personal attack, so he made none of those distinctions when criticizing or disagreeing with me. There really was just no way to have a real conversation, no way to have honest communication, with him about anything important. "We" were happy so long as I agreed with him on _everything_ and never, ever, criticized anything he said, did, thought or wanted. He wasn't a terrible person, but he was a pretty poor relationship partner.


I was too. And it wasnt even about criticism, you couldnt say ANYTHING that came across as a negative in his direction! I always wanted to say just get the F over yourself! Defensive, angry... was such a joy to live with.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TJW said:


> Controlled by fear, need to prove their superiority. Need to "wear the pants", and to make sure you know it.


So....your wife belittles and cuts you down?

Or is it any criticism of any kind?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> So....your wife belittles and cuts you down?
> 
> Or is it any criticism of any kind?


It's not criticism of any kind. Criticism can be done in a context of respect, and with expression of the resulting problem or issue, rather than the mental, physical, intellectual abilities of the other person who has not met the requirements of what you asked them to do. Many of which are anal-retentive perfectionism, having no benefit or enhancement to the task itself.

Criticism is also contextual. If one person receives only denigration, condescension, while others receive exaltation..... it becomes a "put-down", even if perhaps the isolated statement could be construed as "constructive".


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I have a sincere recommendation. I think the only help you are going to get from this thread is if you print off what you have written and take it to a therapist. Be prepared to work through it for a few years. You have a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Your marriage could be much richer and deeper if you were to get some help for the issues that you have present here. Your beliefs on these matters are not doing any good for you, your wife, or anyone you are close to. A therapist could help you work through this and come out happier and way more connected.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TJW said:


> It's not criticism of any kind. Criticism can be done in a context of respect, and with expression of the resulting problem or issue, rather than the mental, physical, intellectual abilities of the other person who has not met the requirements of what you asked them to do. Many of which are anal-retentive perfectionism, having no benefit or enhancement to the task itself.
> 
> Criticism is also contextual. If one person receives only denigration, condescension, while others receive exaltation..... it becomes a "put-down", even if perhaps the isolated statement could be construed as "constructive".


Well, this changes things.

Yes, when someone who I know loves and respects me brings something to my attention with tact, even if it stings for a moment, I can appreciate it.

When you have been picked apart to the point that you feel NOTHING is good enough.....then even a "nice" complaint is crushing. And when that person is praising everyone else EXCEPT you.....ugh

If THAT is what you go through then my heart hurts with understanding


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

OP, I think there is a chance your brain works like me, in which you might want to get to the bottom of what retirement may look like for you both. Doing some deep thinking on myself and I have realized I will never stop "doing". I suspect your wife is like the majority of the population that wants a carefree, fun retirement. If you are like me, you will just go nuts. I will never stop working until my brain quits on me. I have learned that when people hear "work", they think "working for the man, have a j.o.b., get an income, etc". If I am right that my INTJ brain shares similarities with others, work can mean many things. Maybe you will want to work for the next decade on a new robotic venture while retired? 

I am not trying to explode a convo in INTJ thinking here, but the OP scenario is exactly what I predict would happen to me. The partner is 'normal' and wants to quit on 'progress' in life and just have fun. You may never have that ability. I know I won't. People say 'get a hobby' but might cautiously say that INTJs are probably not cool with a hobby unless there is a goal in mind. You might have to bring this to light and figure out what YOUR retirement would look like. There might be some friction there that needs worked out.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

@CynthiaDe - thanks for your recommendation. Could you specify the "beliefs" and "serious problem" ?

Thanks for your help.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

You mean a wife telling you she would have done it differently or womansplaining? Both marriages, and what was great about it was she told others, too. Then, they got a chance at bashing and mansplaining. And, I'm a man, so... Such sweethearts they were. I'm sure they got a kick out of that. 

You have to do what you want and how you want to do it. If she was doing it, she'd do it differently and you'd have to accept that. There is nothing wrong with doing things differently. There is something wrong with complaining about how it's done, if it is not highly important. At that point, you would have needed to talk with her beforehand.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Well........did you get the job, enquiring minds want to know?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

@bobsmith - wow, man..... You "get it"... I'm not sure whether I'm INTP or INFP. Most tests score me with "T" or "F" a close call. "F" slightly wins, but I can wear either hat. I can even wear an "E" if the show is short.

The other "letters" aren't even close. I usually show about 98% introversion. I've never been able to convince my wife to take a test. But I'm willing to bet she is almost totally extroverted. People, parties, groupie-ism....

It's probably why I couldn't choose between my careers.... engineering, or music. The "T" wanted one and the "F" wanted the other.



bobsmith said:


> People say 'get a hobby' but might cautiously say that INTJs are probably not cool with a hobby unless there is a goal in mind.


My son could never understand why I didn't play the piano for "fun".... I tried to explain this to him, that to me, it was a career, a profession. It was not a hobby. I practiced hard so I could MAKE MONEY to support my family. I quit traveling and playing dates at age 57. I had done it since I was 15. I have no reason to do it.
It doesn't have to be money, but there's nowhere to go, nothing to do. Sitting there playing to myself only makes me hurt that I'm not better. I can hurt if there's a goal, but when there isn't ? Nah.....I just haven't got time for the pain....

I still pursue the other career.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

OnTheFly said:


> Well........did you get the job, enquiring minds want to know?


The first of several interviews required, I think went pretty well. It will take 3 or 4 more interviews to get an offer.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

This is who your wife is. The two of you are very different, obviously, and it doesn't sound like she's all that interested in what you think. Some can make that kind of marriage work and some can't. You want to stay so spending more time away from her might help.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

TJW said:


> @bobsmith - wow, man..... You "get it"... I'm not sure whether I'm INTP or INFP. Most tests score me with "T" or "F" a close call. "F" slightly wins, but I can wear either hat. I can even wear an "E" if the show is short.
> 
> The other "letters" aren't even close. I usually show about 98% introversion. I've never been able to convince my wife to take a test. But I'm willing to bet she is almost totally extroverted. People, parties, groupie-ism....
> 
> ...



I have played guitar my whole life but cannot handle doing it much in public, though I fantasize about it. Not sure if that trait comes standard in the INTJ or not. I would not say I have the absolute talent of real musicians. I can admit my limits. I am not good enough. 

Regardless of your wife's results, it would be good to figure out the retirement side. Some people's only goal in life is to retire and 'travel the world"..... When I read a woman's profile that says "love to travel", I write them off quick. 

I will say if you like numbers, calculating, and seeing a product of those numbers, engineering can be rewarding. I could never sit and just crunch numbers without seeing my work in action though. To date, I have innovated new designs for myself, engineered them, manufactured them ( I have big CNCs), and retail them. It is rewarding but exhausting too. 

I also just LOVE the chance to fix things for others. Not like "my tire is flat", but "my air conditioner won't work and the HVAC guy cannot figure it out, can you help?"...... I want the repairs that no one else can figure out. 

I don't know your wife but could you talk her into a partnered business? Where maybe you can be together yet work towards a goal? I don't know how big you dream but I dream at least country wide if not global. It depends on what where the compromise might be.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Openminded said:


> Some can make that kind of marriage work and some can't. You want to stay so spending more time away from her might help.


That's why the job..... everything was better then... there was "another world" where my opinions, input, and efforts were not subjected to hypercritical scrutiny. I need somewhere to go, something to do, where reasonable judgment is applied.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TJW said:


> That's why the job..... everything was better then... there was "another world" where my opinions, input, and efforts were not subjected to hypercritical scrutiny. I need somewhere to go, something to do, where reasonable judgment is applied.


so, how did you manage all these years? You seem rather upset about all this... I think I would be too. I agree with you to a certain extent.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

A new job in a field you're interested in sounds like a great idea. Many marriages have difficulty handling the near-constant togetherness that retirement can bring. That's often when minor irritations have the potential to become major irritations.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> so, how did you manage all these years?


This is, because of God's grace, the first time I have had no work to do, for any extended time (more than a month) in 50 years. I managed through the previous half-century because I was good at 2 careers, both of which I loved and wanted, and both of which had lots of people who were very happy and very glad with the results of my work. I had very few complaints. My jobs produced very quick raises and extra responsibilities. My businesses were successful, providing well for our family.

The fact that I was married to a compulsive pessimist was then only a small portion of the total reward-system. My feedback loop, then, was comprised of 90% optimistic and only 10% pessimistic.

In the past 14 months, I've been disabled. The first 4 months of that, I spent in rehab and hospital. Things were better even then, because my providers brought encouragement and were able to dominate the feedback function. Coming home, the loop became comprised of 100% negativity. I mean, the kind which looks at a picture of Marilyn Monroe, and regards her mole as her principal feature.....

I'm having a hard time right now.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Openminded said:


> A new job in a field you're interested in sounds like a great idea. Many marriages have difficulty handling the near-constant togetherness that retirement can bring. That's often when minor irritations have the potential to become major irritations.


That's where we're at. Near-constant togetherness, and for a year, I was a dependent. Not good.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TJW said:


> That's why the job..... everything was better then... there was "another world" where my opinions, input, and efforts were not subjected to hypercritical scrutiny. I need somewhere to go, something to do, where reasonable judgment is applied.


This makes me so sad. Sad because I hate it for you and sad because I so remember this...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TJW said:


> This is, because of God's grace, the first time I have had no work to do, for any extended time (more than a month) in 50 years. I managed through the previous half-century because I was good at 2 careers, both of which I loved and wanted, and both of which had lots of people who were very happy and very glad with the results of my work. I had very few complaints. My jobs produced very quick raises and extra responsibilities. My businesses were successful, providing well for our family.
> 
> The fact that I was married to a compulsive pessimist was then only a small portion of the total reward-system. My feedback loop, then, was comprised of 90% optimistic and only 10% pessimistic.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm very sorry to hear that. Sometimes, I question why we stay married for so long. My wife is a serial car-basher, for example. I got a new one the other day and she's already dented it. I'm having a very hard time staying calm and rational. The obvious thing to do would be to tell her she is not allowed to drive it, risking a major nuclear fall-out. Hopefully, I will be divorced before she manages to destroy it.

I too had to concentrate on work to repulse the negative vibes... until I became a negative vibe myself. I wonder why I made the choices I made in life.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

TJW said:


> The first of several interviews required, I think went pretty well. It will take 3 or 4 more interviews to get an offer.


Best of luck to you on this path. You sound a lot like my FatherInLaw, who also is married to an emotional vampire. My fingers are crossed that my MotherInLaw's less desirable traits are passed on to my wife's sisters instead.....(so far, so good).


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

There is a way to be critical of something and a way to NOT do it.
Good: "I think that this could be done better, and maybe if you..."
Bad: "Wow, you suck at this."

Criticism is essential for self improvement -- it can come from YOURSELF and/or others. The question is if someone does criticize you, is it VALID and is it done in a way to HELP or hurt?

For burned chicken, I would laugh and say "well, I guess WE get to make chicken together next time...". My wife would laugh about it also.

Try to keep humor in it, but also try to understand the criticism and see if it is warranted. If so, take actions to correct.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

OnTheFly said:


> emotional vampire


:laugh:

Interesting, too. I'm picking up the pieces of destruction left by my Mother-in-law in her two sons. My W learned from one of the most bloodthirsty. My father-in-law was a good man who attempted suicide when he was left invalid in her care. My W's sister either didn't learn these ways, or she brought herself under the Holy Spirit's control, as she is a sincere and dedicated christian. She's married to a good guy, they seem to be happy.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

TJW said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Interesting, too. I'm picking up the pieces of destruction left by my Mother-in-law in her two sons. My W learned from one of the most bloodthirsty. My father-in-law was a good man who attempted suicide when he was left invalid in her care. My W's sister either didn't learn these ways, or she brought herself under the Holy Spirit's control, as she is a sincere and dedicated christian. She's married to a good guy, they seem to be happy.


Now that I'm a little older (40s), when we have young guys coming up in the trade, if I get a chance, and if they're willing to listen, I tell them to scrutinize the mother of the girlfriend very carefully. Try to imagine living the life of the potential future FatherInLaw.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Old retired guy here

Understand fully about the retirement issue and getting 
use to it . Retired many years ago from first job, traveled 
and moved around a lot. Sometimes the family moved sometimes
waited at home while I was away on trips. Use to get the itch to
pick up and move, but decide my family needed a place to call home.
Still get the urge to move just not as bad now.

Even after I retired found another job and worked at it. Finally kids
grew up and grand kids now so completely retired. Staying busy with 
them. Wife getting ready to retire soon, then maybe travel for fun not 
a job. I got to stay busy however understand that part about retirement.

Constructive criticism is something I have always enjoyed. I have learned a lot
and grown from that over the years. As long as it is not anything else great.
I try and find and enjoy people with other viewpoints.Still learning and growing.

Me and my wife discuss everything and suggest to each other what is the best way
to do things. We do not always agree but mutually agree what is best. Communication
and compromise works.

Of course there is always make up sex to.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> Now that I'm a little older (40s), when we have young guys coming up in the trade, if I get a chance, and if they're willing to listen, I tell them to scrutinize the mother of the girlfriend very carefully. Try to imagine living the life of the potential future FatherInLaw.


This is EXCELLENT advice. Because it happens a lot. The older I get, the more like my mother I become. In my case, it was a good thing. My mom is wonderful, and she and my father have a great marriage. But that isn't always the case. The same could be said for women - look at how a man treats his mother and how his father treats his mother.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

TJW said:


> That's where we're at. Near-constant togetherness, and for a year, I was a dependent. Not good.


It's unfortunate that your wife is a very negative person. I sympathize. I have one in my extended family and he's totally exhausting to be around. I only see him now and then, thankfully, but I can only imagine the stress having to deal with a constant barrage of negativity every day. I can't manage more than a few hours around him before I need a long break to recover. And he thinks he's completely normal -- it's the rest of us who are the problem according to him. His wife just ignores him but the rest of us have to fight the urge to muzzle him. People like that often are clueless as to their impact.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

red oak said:


> Honesty is the epitome of love. Hiding truth is far from showing love.
> Constructive criticism is necessary for improvement, and can actually show someone love.
> 
> Ever seen a child cry when they find out there is no santa? Talk about a destruction of trust. If they can't trust the ones who are supposed to be looking after them, and in love be truthful, who can they trust.
> ...


Doing some light reading and remembered this post and thought it applicable as most falls from grace are result of dishonesty. 



> When a child first catches adults out—when it first walks into his grave little head that adults do not always have divine intelligence, that their judgments are not always wise, their thinking true, their sentences just—his world falls into panic desolation. The gods are fallen and all safety gone. And there is one sure thing about the fall of gods: they do not fall a little; they crash and shatter or sink deeply into green muck. It is a tedious job to build them up again; they never quite shine. And the child’s world is never quite whole again. It is an aching kind of growing.” – John Steinbeck, East of Eden


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Openminded said:


> he's completely normal -- it's the rest of us who are the problem according to him. People like that often are clueless as to their impact.


Yes, and my W thinks she is "helping" others. If they would only do it HER way.....

The really unfortunate, and sad, part of this, is that she blames others for the fact that she has ostracized her extended family, to the point that her children keep her grandchildren away from her. She leaves a scarlet wake which they have to work to countermand when she leaves. She cannot see that she is the major dynamic-at-fault.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

TJW said:


> My W and I recently had a discussion in which I told her "I wish you liked me..."..... she answered "...I do like you..."....
> 
> But as the discussion came to an abrupt end, I started to wonder..... she must be able to separate what she does from who she is. I can't. What I do is who I am. It is not possible for me to accept criticism of what I have done, without considering it a personal insult. If someone doesn't like what I do, he/she doesn't like me.
> 
> ...


*I'm in agreement to the point that I feel either unliked or used!

Sometimes, a partners or a friends silence is preferable, compared to some of the statements, commentary, or even unconscious actions that they may come out with!

And as we all know, those "unconscious actions" can literally "speak" volumes!*


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

I like my husband, but there are times I may not like what he is saying or doing. Just because I disagree with something he is saying or doing, does not impact how I feel about him as a person; except in the most extreme circumstances (which are VERY rare even after 20+ years).

It seems to me that the OP is putting a lot of his own emotional burden on his wife, and assigning her the blame to go with it. Most people look forward to retirement, and her question was valid. Perhaps the OP needs to be a bit more introspective, instead of feeling picked on and blaming his wife for not liking him in a way that he finds acceptable. It says a lot more about him than it does her. The first word that comes to mind in insecure. 

OP, when you ask your wife a question, listen to her answer, and don't tell her she is wrong for feeling or believing the way she does. It is insulting, and will make her either lie to you (ie: give you the answer you want to hear) or just stop talking to you.

Get a hobby, find things to do that both you and your wife enjoy doing. If she says she likes you, believe her! Retiring is difficult for a lot of people. It is almost as if they lose their sense of purpose. Find a new purpose! Enjoying your wife, and doing the things you always wanted to do, but never had time for while working, might be a good starting point.

Good luck!


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Ed3n said:


> find things to do that both you and your wife enjoy doing.
> 
> Enjoying your wife


Thanks, I agree that it would be a nice starting point. My wife and I can find nothing we commonly enjoy except going on cruises. We cannot cruise on retirement income. A hobby isn't going to change the essential circumstance set.



arbitrator said:


> I'm in agreement to the point that I feel either unliked or used!


Because I am "plan B provider guy", that reality comes through in everything. Enjoying time with her is not possible, for me. I cannot be "safe" with her.

The only "place" I am able to be secure is in one of my careers. I am, there, considered capable, respectable, even beyond competent and contributing. I'm not perfect, but there, people have a reasonable performance criteria.

I, therefore, am going back there. I'm going to take my own advice and go see an attorney, find out just how bad off I'll be when I get outa here.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TJW said:


> Thanks, I agree that it would be a nice starting point. My wife and I can find nothing we commonly enjoy except going on cruises. We cannot cruise on retirement income. A hobby isn't going to change the essential circumstance set.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds like you had a bit of a nightmare marriage...


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