# Counseling with the OW or OM



## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

I frequently read on this website of the struggles that people go through in order to overcome the effects of infidelity (my hat goes off to those who put forth the work and commitment to their marriage and are able to rebuild their marriage after an affair). I read about spouses who were cheated on and spouses who do the cheating. I mourn for both as both seem to be going through a lot of pain and turmoil.

While husbands and wives who either cheated or were cheated on get most of the attention, I think that it is also important to recognize that the OW or OM is also in pain and struggles to overcome the consequences from an affair. I think back to some of my counseling sessions with OWs or OMs. When I first started meeting with them, I was skeptical and maybe even a little judgmental. I eventually came to realize that they also struggled in overcoming the effects of an affair.

I can think of one OW that I met who really fascinated me. She mentioned how she was jealous of her partner who returned to his wife as she had no one to turn to. He was her support and life. She recognized that she still had feelings for him but couldn't understand how to compartmentalize those feelings. Through counseling, we worked on helping her move forward with her life and feel better about herself.

By no means am I an expert in counseling with the OW or OM. I have had very few OW/OM cases in comparison to the marriage counseling with the husband and wife. By no means am I condoning any aspect of an affair. They are incredibly destructive to a relationship. What I am saying is that OWs and OMs are not horrible people as we sometimes infer. They are people who also struggle with themselves and their feelings during and after an affair.


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## square1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I haven't had much sleep so when I read the thread title I really thought I was going to read how couples dealing with infidelity should go to counseling with the OM/OW.


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## Confused_and_bitter (Aug 6, 2011)

Square1 - I thought the same thing LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## raising5boyz (Nov 8, 2008)

I was the others OW and the WW once. In the end....after dealing with my guilt for what I did to my own spouse as well as what I could have done to the other family.....I felt betrayed by the man. I was in a very vurnerable position (my husband at the time was abusive) and I truly developed feelings for this other man. Yes, I would have left my husband to be with the OM. NO IT WAS NOT RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT MY SITUATION WAS.....but in this post I am just trying to give the perspective of the OW. Although wrong...my feelings for the OM were very real....however after the fog lifted I realized that most likely everything the other man had told me was a lie. It was all a big story to get in my pants basically. He had told me how mistreated he was....how they never had sex....and on and on....basically the story he told me made me feel sorry for him. It may me feel like I could give him everything his wife refused to give him. I could give him love and understanding...and yes, sex. I did not think that I was ruining a marriage....I felt like his marriage was already broken and it was her fault....the man I fell in love with was wonderful, and kind, and treated me well....and was so neglected at home! 

But,when I admitted to my husband at the time....what I had done...my H went to his W, and he denied it all completely....made up lies about me...basically called me a lying phsyco stalker who just wanted to break up thier marriage for whatever reason.....it was then that I felt betrayed and realized he was a liar. It was then that I realized he said whatever he needed to say to get some from me. More than anything I felt STUPID!!! For so many reasons! 

That was my first marriage.....happened a long time ago.....we stayed together after my affair....but a few years later I left him because of the abuse. 

CHEATING IS AWFUL FOR ALL INVOLVED....even for those that are the foolish ones to let it happen.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Maybe I am just a butthead, but the OM/OW can kiss my big ass. if the OM/OW is in a relationship, then he or she can become the cheater in his or her own life and get counseling.
As a cheater and a cheatee, I don't give a crap what the OM/OW is going through.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

square1 said:


> I haven't had much sleep so when I read the thread title I really thought I was going to read how couples dealing with infidelity should go to counseling with the OM/OW.


Yes I was like "OMG this is going to get ugly..."


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I dont consider it similar to stealing for food like the 'counselor' is trying to make out.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

If the OW or OM knows that their partner is in a marriage, then screw them.

The unbelievable destruction an affair causes has victims alright. Like the faithful spouse, the children, and the marriage. 

The wayward spouse and cheating partner get no quarter from me. A pox on both of them.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Mistys dad said:


> If the OW or OM knows that their partner is in a marriage, then screw them.
> 
> The unbelievable destruction an affair causes has victims alright. Like the faithful spouse, the children, and the marriage.
> 
> The wayward spouse and cheating partner get no quarter from me. A pox on both of them.


Yeah, I have no reservations about judging someone who knowlingly interfered in a marriage. But I do agree with Brian that they need therapy from a clinical psychologist to find out why they are broken and what can be done about it.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm afraid to post this, but I was the OW several years ago in an affair. I was not married. I was told from the start they were divorcing. He told me all the awful things his spouse did, blah blah. I believed him... I didn't know. We were open about our relationship, he didn't seem to be hiding the relationship. But he did hide it I guess from the wife... Something I did not know at first. For me I chose to break it off and I exposed the affair to the wife. He continued pursuing me but this time everything was secret. It was hard to deny the feelings I had developed during the time he was lying to me about his marriage ending. I ultimately moved away for about two years, so I had something to distract me. But had I stayed there, I would've ultimately needed help. I am married now and I have not and will not cheat on my husband. I have been cheated on by my husband. Perhaps my having been there has contributed to my continued forgiveness to my husband. I don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Remember every cheating spouse is also an OM/OW if the AP was married - it takes two to tango...

Ultimately the pain of cheating is self imposed, it is just as real as the pain the betrayed spouses feel but it justifiably garners much less sympathy because we did it to ourselves.

Stupid tax is expensive.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

sigma1299 said:


> Remember every cheating spouse is also an OM/OW if the AP was married - it takes two to tango...
> 
> Ultimately the pain of cheating is self imposed, it is just as real as the pain the betrayed spouses feel but it justifiably garners much less sympathy because we did it to ourselves.
> 
> Stupid tax is expensive.


When my marriage was in trouble, I was busy enough trying to help my relationship.
I didn't give a rat's ass about the OW or OM and still don't. They can fix their own problems.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

As someone who had to deal with the Reconciliation, rebuilding the commitment, triggers, and the family, I don't give a R**TS A** about the counseling for a person who did something with a Married person.

Most of them know that the person was in a commmitted realtionship and their only interest was to have S*x with that person. They mostly run when the other spouse finds out because a committed relationship takes work.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

DanF said:


> When my marriage was in trouble, I was busy enough trying to help my relationship.
> I didn't give a rat's ass about the OW or OM and still don't. They can fix their own problems.


I can't say I didn't give a rats ass about my AP because as has been pointed out - I was interfering in another marriage and I will always carry the pain and remorse of having done that. She did have to fix her own problems but I still felt (and still feel) some responsibility. The ironic part is that I'm pretty sure she has none of those same sentiments for having done the very same to me, my marriage and my wife - which ultimately tells me a lot about the difference between she and I.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I have been on both sides of cheating, having cheated and been cheated on in my marriage, but I have never been the OW. 

Most OW and OM know full well they are involving themselves in someone else's relationship. The person I feel the most sympathy for is the betrayed. 

I can understand someone getting swept up in "feelings," even when it's wrong, but it's hard to have sympathy for someone who willingly and intentionally continues to carry it on, after the fact, on and on and on and on. And of course it takes two to tango but ... it's hard to have sympathy for an OW/OM. And there are those who only have a thing for married/coupled people and who have this pattern than continues throughout their life.

With that said, we are all human. It's learning from bad/poor decisions and not repeating them that shows growth. If people keep doing the same sh!t over and over again, then that says it all, really.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

sigma1299: Bottomline you disrespected your vows,wife etc. Sorry, don't give a R**s A** about your issue. The only one I have sympathy for is your wife.

Marriage is tough and takes work unfortunately when that decision point in the road comes some take the downward slope.

I have had to rebuild after someone took that downward slope because someon like you did not have the internal ethics to do what they had vowed to.

Otherwise, I hope your wife is well and is doing well after the crap you put her through and as to the OW a slow and painful death is in order.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

rrrbbbttt said:


> sigma1299: Bottomline you disrespected your vows,wife etc. Sorry, don't give a R**s A** about your issue. The only one I have sympathy for is your wife.
> 
> Marriage is tough and takes work unfortunately when that decision point in the road comes some take the downward slope.
> 
> ...


True on all counts and I'm not looking for sympathy from anyone - like I said whatever pain I have is self inflicted and is the price of my decisions and I stand ready to pay it. 

Not sure how I came across as trying to garner sympathy for the OW/OM or the cheating spouse for that matter, it was not my intention and not how I feel.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sigma, I think you struck a chord cause on several posts you've sai dsomething along these lines:

"I can't say I didn't give a rats ass about my AP"

I hear what you are saying but others may interpret that a different way. 

Nonetheless, I have never seen you trying to "garner sympathy"-- you have owned what you did every step of the way, IMO. Good for you.



rrrbbbttt said:


> sigma1299: Bottomline you disrespected your vows,wife etc. Sorry, don't give a R**s A** about your issue. The only one I have sympathy for is your wife.
> 
> Otherwise, I hope your wife is well and is doing well after the crap you put her through and as to the OW a slow and painful death is in order.


A bit much, yeah?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Riverside, I give you big kudoos for bringing this up -really, and realizing that ...all that judgement is not going to help anyone. I thought to myself.... "Lord, he is going to get hammered with this one!" 

I've never been on either side of this , but yet, I can still have sympathy for those who fall into it, I understand people can become very weak when emotional or sexual needs are not being met at home, it can even cause severe depression in some. I've seen friends climb out of it, I encouraged one of my GF's to stay with her husband, it was the right thing to do. He was a good man, they are thriving now, all forgiven. 

I am not one who feels only the "betrayed" deserve our understanding and sympathy or.... they are the only ones to suffer. 

If they have a selfish spouse who lives for the moment & just goes out flirting it up & being unfaithful -with no conscience -while having a loving caring , giving spouse waiting at home , then sure they are *MONSTERS*...no rats a** sympathy from me even. 

But that is not always the case, would be nice if it was , make it alot easier... but some are willing to climb mountains to save their marraiges, but are met with an uncaring, unwilling, ungiving, affection withholding, near sexless, silent treatment loving, cold & callus, a new thread said "uncommunication couch potato" -if you have a spouse like this.... this ain't no damn walk in the park. Always another side to the story. Much pain on this side of the coin, even contributing to that slippery slope that should have.... never been. 

I am not condoning what they did...but I can EASILY recognize they had real human "suffering" in what they were living with at home....in such cases, that is. 

Maybe that is a flaw in me, I don't know! I just can't judge people too harshly -until I have heard both sides. Sometimes it even takes an affair to wake some spouses up, why do that have to be so darn BRICK headed! :banghead:

I have used this book link many times on this forum... some are 
offended by it but I think the author is great ! 

Amazon.com: When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationships (9780312563448): Mira Kirshenbaum: Books

.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Riverside,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The solution to this is DIVORCE not an AFFAIR. The AFFAIR is using a Nuclear Bomb to get rid of a RAT. The collateral damage cannot be repaired. If you choose to have an AFFAIR you have corrupted your own integrity. You cannot unring a bell.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

okay here's an honest question for the OP

if a OM/OW comes to you and clearly isn't remorseful about the affair, is still in the fog or just plain thinks cheating is justified, do you guide them towards recognizing the hurt they are dishing out, or do you treat the patient in a vacuum to validate their feelings and feel better about themselves and help themselves absolve guilt?

I ask because I think a wayward can truly benefit from IC/MC IF they are seeking help because of remorse. By nature a counselor/therapist doesn't judge nor preach morality and tries to treat a patient in the manner that they are seeking help. Therefore I argue that a WS in therapy without the motivation to change core values could actually be dangerous as it can lead to justification, absolution of guilt without remorse and further cheating.

thoughts?


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## ReasonableMan (Oct 18, 2011)

I guess for me it would really depend on what happened and how the OM/OW was involved. Maybe a serious affair between two colleagues that had gone on for years would result in the need for the other person needing some sort of counseling as well. But the young guy at my wife's work who spent most of six months trying to get her to stray is obviously (to me) not needing any counseling. Some people who enable spouses to cheat are doing so for reasons that require emotional help or treatment. Others (like in my case) are just preying on troubled marriages and probably wouldn't need help so much as a kick in the rear.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

square1 said:


> I haven't had much sleep so when I read the thread title I really thought I was going to read how couples dealing with infidelity should go to counseling with the OM/OW.


My first though also, I amost went to go pop some popcorn.

I don't think I can muster up any sympothy for anybody who has no problem causing that much hurt to another then gets hurt in the process.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

uphillbattle said:


> My first though also, I amost went to go pop some popcorn.
> 
> I don't think I can muster up any sympothy for anybody who has no problem causing that much hurt to another then gets hurt in the process.


What if they didn't know they were causing hurt? I know now to never mess with a married man, I don't care if they can show me where they live WITH their wife because they have an open relationship. I wasn't married then and hadn't been in years... My first marriage was more or less very flawed. After everything that I've experienced and learned in my current marriage, I value our vows and I'm here for as long as I can be, within my power. I think back to that guy and I actually get disgusted thinking of how he betrayed his wife and me at the same time. When I exposed the affair to his wife near the end, they got into counseling... Ran into him at the grocery store several months later. He told me that he's working on his marriage, but its only a matter of time before he bails on her. I moved away a few months later, but not before he continued pursuing me, this time with more lies. He's still married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## better than before (Aug 3, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I can't say I didn't give a rats ass about my AP because as has been pointed out - I was interfering in another marriage and I will always carry the pain and remorse of having done that. She did have to fix her own problems but I still felt (and still feel) some responsibility. The ironic part is that I'm pretty sure she has none of those same sentiments for having done the very same to me, my marriage and my wife - which ultimately tells me a lot about the difference between she and I.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Jellybeans said:


> Most OW and OM know full well they are involving themselves in someone else's relationship. The person I feel the most sympathy for is the betrayed.


This has not been my experience wit the individuals I have worked with. I have found that most OWs/OMs are told by the WH or WW that the marriage is basically over, or that they are in the process of separating. For many of my clients, they got involved with a married person fully believing that the relationship was already over. When they find out the truth about the other person, they are to emotionally invested to break off the relationship.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Almostrecovered said:


> okay here's an honest question for the OP
> 
> if a OM/OW comes to you and clearly isn't remorseful about the affair, is still in the fog or just plain thinks cheating is justified, do you guide them towards recognizing the hurt they are dishing out, or do you treat the patient in a vacuum to validate their feelings and feel better about themselves and help themselves absolve guilt?
> 
> ...


When my clients come to me, I do not judge them about things that have happened in the past. When they are thinking of doing something in the future (like having an affair) I inform them of the numerous risks involved for not only them, but others as well. Most people that come to me in counseling do feel some sense of remorse and are at points in their lives where they would like to move on.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> This has not been my experience wit the individuals I have worked with. I have found that most OWs/OMs are told by the WH or WW that the marriage is basically over, or that they are in the process of separating. For many of my clients, they got involved with a married person fully believing that the relationship was already over. When they find out the truth about the other person, they are to emotionally invested to break off the relationship.


I wonder how much of that is a selection bias. That is, those who are told one thing only to find out another are horrified about what they have done and need help to process the information, while those who intentionally got involved in someone's marriage do not see themselves as having any problems.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Riverside, I give you big kudoos for bringing this up -really, and realizing that ...all that judgement is not going to help anyone. I thought to myself.... "Lord, he is going to get hammered with this one!"
> 
> I've never been on either side of this , but yet, I can still have sympathy for those who fall into it, I understand people can become very weak when emotional or sexual needs are not being met at home, it can even cause severe depression in some. I've seen friends climb out of it, I encouraged one of my GF's to stay with her husband, it was the right thing to do. He was a good man, they are thriving now, all forgiven.
> 
> ...


Thanks SA. Getting hammered on this? Yea maybe a little? Am I feeling misunderstood. Yes. But maybe that is what so many of my clients experience, whether they are the WS, OW/OM, or the Loyal spouse. They probably feel like they have been misunderstood.
The people that I see in my counseling office are truly amazing people who are wanting something more from their lives. I look up to them and their desires to overcome mistakes and live fulfilling and happy lives.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I wonder how much of that is a selection bias. That is, those who are told one thing only to find out another are horrified about what they have done and need help to process the information, while those who intentionally got involved in someone's marriage do not see themselves as having any problems.


Very good point. Usually it takes some aspect of humility to come to counseling (and to continue coming) in order to get help.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> Most people that come to me in counseling do feel some sense of remorse and are at points in their lives where they would like to move on.





Riverside MFT said:


> Usually it takes some aspect of humility to come to counseling (and to continue coming) in order to get help.


Good stuff. I think therapy is a great thing and I know a lot of people knock it but it truly can help work wonders.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Jellybeans said:


> Good stuff. I think therapy is a great thing and I know a lot of people knock it but it truly can help work wonders.


Thanks JB


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Some OM/W are horrified what they have done when they find out their AP lied to them and they contributed to the turmoil of a family. Some couldn't care less. Some OM/W go out specifically seeking a married man/woman to philander with. Some believed their lover was truly single. You can't paint them all with the same brush. Same as you can't paint all of any class of people with the same brush. (except cheaters. They're all lying scumbags, at least while they're cheating)


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

rrrbbbttt said:


> The solution to this is DIVORCE not an AFFAIR. The AFFAIR is using a Nuclear Bomb to get rid of a RAT. The collateral damage cannot be repaired. If you choose to have an AFFAIR you have corrupted your own integrity. You cannot unring a bell.


 Do you think I am condoning an Affair ? This seems to happen to me alot when I dare suggest the affair partner could be hurting too, kinda drives me a little nuts. 

Listen....I did a thread on *100% Transparency *in marraige, this is how me & my husband LIVE ...... I also do NOT believe in Uncondtional Love ......(did a thread on that too).... I'd be warning my husband where I was headed- if I was miserable as sin and was ready to jump ship, I wouldn't suffer in a dead sexless unaffectionate marraige. There would be NO hiding and no lying on my end -he could divorce me, we'd all walk away - being honest about it-which I would call "integrity led". 

I hear you, I just can't judge as harshly as you - when others screw up.... I will still listen , I will hold my tongue, I will allow them to share their story, their side of hurt, and I will still sympathize if their "victimized" spouse was any of those things I listed in my last post. 

What should I have told my GF ....to DUMP her husband, let their 4 children know what a patheitc Disgrace he was & always will be for using a nuclear Bomb on their marraige, never to be forgiven, have his kids hate him, friends never talk to him again, while she goes off to live alone & they all miss him. No redemption. Sorry, I disagree with you.....Funny, that IS what her church wanted her to do!! The collateral damage CAN BE repaired --depends on the heart of the one wronged and how remorseful the husband was.... in his case, pretty da** remorseful. And my friend.....she was a denier. Is that any surrpise. Did she learn a hard lesson.... absolutely. 

Read this man's story http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-term-success-marriage/8698-how-we-overcame-adultery.html


...Tremendous story of redemption and forgiveness ... now many called him an idiot... they wanted to slam his wife, tell him he is nothing more than a FOOL. The thing was... he was ABLE to forgive her, he searched his own heart, he recognized his own hand in not being there for her, ignoring her needs, off being a Work a holic. HE felt her pain, this is why he was able to go the route of forgiveness and they restored their marraige. Was it easy ...He** No, what is worth it.... according to that husband....very much so.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Do you think I am condoning an Affair ? This seems to happen to me alot when I dare suggest the affair partner could be hurting too, kinda drives me a little nuts.
> 
> Listen....I did a thread on *100% Transparency *in marraige, this is how me & my husband LIVE ...... I also do NOT believe in Uncondtional Love ......(did a thread on that too).... I'd be warning my husband where I was headed- if I was miserable as sin and was ready to jump ship, I wouldn't suffer in a dead sexless unaffectionate marraige. There would be NO hiding and no lying on my end -he could divorce me, we'd all walk away - being honest about it-which I would call "integrity led".
> 
> ...


:iagree::yay:


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

If they have a selfish spouse who lives for the moment & just goes out flirting it up & being unfaithful -with no conscience -while having a loving caring , giving spouse waiting at home , then sure they are MONSTERS...no rats a** sympathy from me even. 

But that is not always the case, would be nice if it was , make it alot easier... but some are willing to climb mountains to save their marraiges, but are met with an uncaring, unwilling, ungiving, affection withholding, near sexless, silent treatment loving, cold & callus, a new thread said "uncommunication couch potato" -if you have a spouse like this.... this ain't no damn walk in the park. Always another side to the story. Much pain on this side of the coin, even contributing to that slippery slope that should have.... never been. 

My previous post was to your above statement. These actions by a Spouse do not as I believe validate an affair by the Spouse who wants to have a better marriage. The solution to a Marriage that is not being participated in by another Spouse is Divorce.

I never said you were validating an affair I stated that there is no valid reason to have one.

If a person wants to work on the marriage and their partner is non-partcipatory that is their choice but it does not allow them to seek something outside of their marriage until they are Divorced. 
No slippery slope.

If you want to work on the marriage, all for it.

If you want to leave the marriage get a Divorce

Until the Divorce, he marriage is a promise by you and to the vows you made that commitment. If you break that commitment you have started to chip away at your internal integrity.

For some, that is okay but I believe in a person's word.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Good stuff. I think therapy is a great thing and I know a lot of people knock it but it truly can help work wonders.


Like many things, therapy is a Godsend if you're open to it.

If you "really" want to work on yourself, BOTH to understand yourself and to improve your interactions with those close to you, therapy is a great tool.

If you're not willing to commit to improving your behavior? Don't bother. It's a waste of money.


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