# Unsure in marraige counseling...



## snowday

I'm hoping to get some advice as i'm unsure how I feel about our marriage counseling sessions...

So i'll try to make the long story short. Husband and I have fought on and off for years about his porn usage. It was one of those things where I hated the lying and secrecy of it. I'd find it, he'd lie and tell me he'd get rid of and we'd repeat the cycle. Got to the point it was a big issue and through a series of events he ended up in a SA meeting and admitting he was addicted to porn.

He attends meetings, therapy, etc (has attended awhile, but switched to what seems like a better/more serious group in January of this year.) Marriage counseling was probably started slightly prior to that change.

Before I get going on the MC I want to just say that husband has a lot of co-dependent tendancies also.

So we both like the MC fine (woman if that matters.) She did get him to change to a new counselor in her office which I thought was good because his other therapist seemed to be an idiot. I'm wondering now if it's such a good idea because I know they discuss things and i'm starting to get the feeling that maybe that isn't in my best interest.

I guess the main problem is that I feel like the MC is tiptoeing around husband these days because his self-esteem is so low and he's soooo needy. I get that she should be neutral, to a point, but I don't know how we can move forward if the MC doesn't say "hey do you think that is the proper way to behave?" so to speak.

I'll give you an example. I asked a question one day and her reply was that "husband doesn't realize that he is being selfish when he is being selfish!" So she acknowledged that she sees his selfishness, but basically she acknowledged it in answer to a specific question I asked. Since that time she hasn't called him out on it.... I know people say they are there to lead you to the conclusion, but trust me he isn't going to get it without someone pointing it out!

This week I was angry about how he treats me, I gave examples of what I meant because he is very angry and taking it out on me (basically bad mood, snippy, etc.) She asked questions like does he throw things, physically do something, etc. I answered no, but the doors slamming and the angry tone is upsetting to me. Later in the session she said something to the tune that either you can choose to be angry or choose to move on and let go of the anger. I said I get that, but when the behavior is ongoing, it angers you again, etc. She did say ideally the behavior should be done away with, BUT still seemed to feel I should just forgive & forget.
I just signed up today and posted this on the addiction board...but now that I see the general board I thought posting here also might be good since the question is more or less about IF the marriage counselor is a good fit.

So I feel like we are spinning our wheels....if we keep coming in and he doesn't understand the proper behavior of adults then shouldn't she start saying, "I think ....." It's well established that the addict is emotionally immature so him "getting" it is just not happening for the most part. I get that nothing changes overnight, but I really think he needs explicit direction here (and me pointing something out makes him angry so me doing it isn't a great option!)

So i'm struggling with is this the normal experience?? Trust me I know I have my flaws and i'm willing to work at them, but i'm not willing to continue to be a doormat so we can tiptoe around his low self-esteem.

Anyone want to give me advice on whether it's a good idea to have therapists in the same office? Also do you think this therapist is too passive? I'd guess there are therapists that are more direct, but i'm unsure?


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## Blanca

I do not think marriage counseling is a good idea in this situation. I have also struggled with my H's porn issue, his low self-esteem, and anger issues. I tried for a long time to point out his faults and get him to change, which is what it sounds like you are trying to do through the therapist. 

I really think the only thing that works is when you become completely responsible for yourself, and only yourself. I decided to let go of my H's problems completely. I went to individual counseling and my H goes to individual counseling. Since then we do not fight. I have found porn on the computer, which he tried to lie his way out of, and he lies about other things. Tonight he lied to me again but because i've been working on myself i never got angry. We talked, shared our sides, and that was that. It is really amazing that we can completely disagree, I can be hurt, and there is no fighting, no bad feelings. Just talking. I was hurt, of course, but never angry and we are fine. I feel for what he is going through and, at the same time, i recognize the need to protect my own heart. Its a complicated balance that I think can only be achieved when you let go of your spouse and take care of your own heart.


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## Riverside MFT

You should know within the first 4-6 sessions whether or not your marriage counselor is going to be a good fit. If you do not feel comfortable with the counselor, things are probably not going to change. If you like, you can try talking to your counselor about these things, otherwise it might be wise to find a different counselor. Having therapists in the same office can sometimes be helpful to the therapist and convenient for you, but if you feel uncomfortable with it than speak up and take action. Go to a different therapist if needed. A good resource for pornography addiction is Combating Pornography. It is an LDS (Mormon) based resource, but there is some excellent information on there for individuals who struggle with pornography and spouses whose husbands are addicted.


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## bs193

You can try another counselor(not in the same office) as Brian mentioned, but I am inclined to think Blanca may be correct in that MC is not going to help, at least not with what you seem to want. IMO, a good MC is not going to play referee and back one spouse while telling the other they are wrong, and it seems like that is what you are looking for. MC tends to look at the bigger picture which is why some view the marriage as the client, not the two individuals. I doubt any MC is going to treat porn addiction, at least not effectively.


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## snowday

I think I get what you all are saying... I guess I just don't know how to put it all into place. 

I'm trying to do my own thing and stay out of his crud. He goes to meetings, counseling, etc., but I think really hasn't come to terms with he's his own problem (poor him type thing.) 

I guess i'm struggling with him drawing me in and feeling manipulated when he does so. This week in MC she said I could either hang on to the anger or let it go...ok totally get that. I explained that he is taking his anger out on my verbally so although I can let go of it, it happens again the next week - again making me angry. She said ideally the behavior SHOULD change. That's where the conversation ended. 

So my options for his anger and telling me what I should and shouldn't say are what? I'm already withdrawn and try to keep my mouth shut 99% of the time. That also is a problem because then i'm too quiet.....

He's pushing way to hard to continue to control things and I just am not comfortable with a lot of it, but it causes more upset.


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## bs193

She already gave you your options for the anger....hang on to it or let it go. Simple yet very profound. You can only be responsible for you. The behavior should change in him, but neither you or her can change it. Only he can. 

They key as I see it is to make him accountable for his actions. Just getting mad about it hasn't work yet and won't. He can't control things in your marriage unless you give up control, which is what seems to be happening. Lay down some boundaries and stick with them. Don't withdraw and don't keep quiet. When you do this, you become part of the problem. 

He may need motivated to change because it doesn't sound like he is now. I think you need to do what you want the counselor to do (and any good counselor won't). Tell him to change, or else, and be prepared to follow through on the "or else" whatever that may be. 

You say he goes to meetings and counseling(I am assuming individual counseling with someone other than the MC). If this hasn't worked, continuing to do the same things won't change the results. It may be the meetings and counseling are ineffective or just a lack of motivation on his part to commit to change.

Biggest problem I see here is he appears to bring the dysfunctional behaviors into the marriage AND has the controlling role because you give it to him.


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## bs193

Also...don't focus all your energy on him. Remember, you are only responsible for you. There is work you need to do within yourself. Your marriage didn't get here just because of him. You played a significant role. Use counseling to your advantage and learn more about your role in all of this and what you can do to change. 

Even if you can't save your marriage, it is important to learn as much as you can about yourself in order to prevent problems in future relationships. All too often people walk away from a bad marriage without realizing how they contributed to it, then can't understand why the next marriage is also bad. 

How many times have we heard people complain that they are "unlucky in love" because they go from one bad relationship to another? Luck had nothing to do with it.


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## snowday

Biggest problem I see here is he appears to bring the dysfunctional behaviors into the marriage AND has the controlling role because you give it to him. 

That sums it all up I suppose... He's controlled things because I feel like I what I say doesn't make a difference (he feels he's right and doesn't consider anything else.) I said I don't want porn in our house, he did it anyway. I let it go, he continued to do it anyway. Financial decisions I feel we need to do xyz, he doesn't so nothing happens. Nothing changes because he controls everything. 

If I bring up a problem to discuss, he turns it around and instead of acknowledging it he turns it into how I do things wrong, etc. If he brings up something i'm doing that is a problem, I listen and then give consideration to what he's said. If I bring up something he immediately starts with how I do similar things badly, etc. So I have a choice, bring things up or let them go....thereby giving him more control I suppose.

He now thinks he knows everything because he goes to meetings...and i'm just not willing to have petty arguments about them constantly, which is what happens. I get that I need to put down some boundaries, but he generally rolls right over those also. 

I'm seeing that I need to change and that i'm letting him control things, I guess I just don't know exactly how to stop letting someone roll right over me like that. I've never had someone treat me like this.... And he knows I can't leave now so he truly does have all the control.


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## bs193

Sounds like the control issues are what needs focused on in counseling, the the other problems you are seeing are just a product of those issues. MC can help with this.


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## Blanca

snowday said:


> This week in MC she said I could either hang on to the anger or let it go...ok totally get that.


If a therapist ever said that to me I'd never go back. Its absurd. All they are really saying is, 'I don't feel what you are feeling and I don't know how to help you.' From the things your therapist has said I think they are dealing in abstracts, meaning they don't have a clue how to help you. 

There's not much difference between physical pain and emotional pain. If you have a nail in your foot and it hurts and the physician said, "well, just let go of the pain" you'd find a new doctor. Not much different here except that finding solutions to emotional pain are not as simple. 



snowday said:


> So my options for his anger and telling me what I should and shouldn't say are what? I'm already withdrawn and try to keep my mouth shut 99% of the time. That also is a problem because then i'm too quiet.....


There is a great book out there called Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend. It has helped me so much in dealing with my H. I think it gives real, practical advice that helps me feel in control of myself even when I'm provoked. Boundaries in these situations are the cornerstone to healing. 

Another good book is called Radical Forgiveness. If you carry around a lot of anger and resentment it will be difficult for you to progress. Getting rid of your resentment and anger is the foundation to healing.


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## jayde

Hi . . .I have similar questions about MC.

1. Our MC is also my wife's IC. Is this a good idea? He also has seen my daughter and would like to get the whole family in for communication issues. 

2. He doesn't really give us any advice. Should he? In one session, I responded THREE times to a comment/question my wife had - she never seemed to 'hear' me. When I got sarcastic - it seemed to sink in . But the MC reprimanded me that sarcasm wasn't a good communicaiton tool. I asked him then, how should I respond when I answer the same question three times and she doesn't hear me.

3. I feel all we (my wife and I) do is have ***** sessions in front of him. ANd very rarely will he 'referree'. Isn't he supposed to be doing something in the sessions???

I feel that I need to keep going and say that I think it's worthwhile or else it will be viewed on giving up on the marriage. My wife has been the more vocal one about D or some other alternative if things don't get better.

Perhaps money better spent with a D lawyer : ) ????

Thanks,


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## bs193

1. Bringing the counselor in for your daughter's session is a good idea. Using your wife's IC as your MC is NOT a good idea. Seek more "neutral" grounds.

2. I prefer a counselor provide insight, not advice. He is correct in that sarcasm needs to be avoided at all costs but he also needs to provide insight into how to communicate better.

3. I do not believe he should referee, but should not just sit there and let you two go at it either.

For MC to work, you both have to want it to work and put in the effort, in and out of the sessions - doesn't sound like that is happening. If you are sitting back expecting the MC to fix what is broken, it isn't going to happen.


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## jayde

BS. . . 

1. Wife was near hysteria this afternoon that she couldn't go through the stress of 'breaking in' a new MC. She claims that she's getting something out of it (which was different from the last time we spoke).

2. Yes insight. Tonight he actually took one of our dialogues and asked us questions about what the other said, did you get that s/he said this or that - do you realize you just did what s/he said you did, etc. This is the feedback I want - a neutral 'observer' to be objective and give us a view we cannot see since we're in the thick of it. He earned another session tonight.

3. Referee may not be the right term, but contribute something more than 'you two have a lot of issues to sort through.' He actually said this one evening. NOT helpful.

THanks for your feedback.


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