# I think this could be my last straw...



## ProudMom (Sep 10, 2011)

A couple weeks after we were married (2007) I had to go out of town for a conference (work related). I really wanted to my husband to go, but knew he would be bored for the 10 hours a day I was in meetings. I told him I would be fine with him bringing his brother along. They could hang out while I was in class. The three of us had always had a lot of fun together and we had never had an issue. The first night we were there after I had gotten out of class his brother told me that they wanted to go to a strip club. I was 20 years old, I had never been to a strip club or even thought about it. My husband really wanted to go, I found it strange because it had never ever come up before while we were dating. I was hurt, but didn't want to look like the "mean wife," infront of my husband's brother two weeks after getting married. (Young and dumb, I have much stricter boundaries now.) I went with them, but had forgotten my i.d. (Subcontiously on purpose I would assume.) So I figured we would just go home and this little nightmare would be over. Nope. They left me in a SHADY parking lot and went and had a good ole time with a bunch of naked women. I had know idea where I was or how to get back to my hotel. At one point two drunk guys got in a fight on the trunk of my car!!! I called and called, and called my husband and brother-in-law, but they were to busy to talk to me. I was DEVESTATED to say the least. We had a huge fight that night. He told me I was trying to take aways his fun and his time with his brother. Through out the next couple of years he continued to go to strip clubs, watch porn, give our account information out online to have cyber sex, chats, and watch live feeds, that ended up getting over 800 dollars taken from our account. I was furious!!!! I left him, he begged and begged and promised and promised that he would never do it again. Then in Jan 2010 for our wedding anniversary we went to Vegas we took along our best man (his brother), and maid of honor (my best friend.) I thought that it was going to be amazing, fun, and romantic. He ditched me the entrie time for his brother. They spent their time at strip clubs. At one point I started crying and asked him to stay and he just turned away and walked off with his brother. That was when we had a call to Jesus meeting so to speak. I was hurt beyond belief. I wanted to leave, but he said he would work on it, he wouldn't do it anymore and he started to make actual strides, or just became a better liar. I am not sure which at this point. A few months ago I found porn magazines in his pickup when I was cleaning it out. I confronted him about it and he said they were from before the Vegas trip, LIE...they had a freaking date on them of this year! You can't get a magazine a year before it comes out! Leading to our current infedlity (as I see it) He planned a trip to the mountains with his brother and friends. I already do not trust my husband. I already didn't want him to go, and he knew that. The night before they left his brother proceded to tell him that he changed where they were going because they were three strip clubs on the new route, so they could stop in on the way up. I was right there! So my husband quickly responded " I do not agree with strip clubs." His brother said you may be scared to get caught going to one, but that reason you are giving is total bull****." My husband said nothing. And they left the next day. May seem crazy (to me even, after writing it all out) that I am still with my husband. But we have children. He is a good dad. He is the breadwinner and I stay at home with our very young sons. I don't want to devestate my children, they adore their father. But I am sooooo angry! I am so hurt! That I can't stand to be in the same room as him. He just wont get his **** together. He is 30 years old. You would think that he would be over this crap by now. I also feel incredible betrayed, because none of these issues surfaced until after we were married. I would NOT have married into this. He knew that and that is why he kept it from me. If I talk about his brother and say that I am uncomfortable with him going on trips with him, he gets pissed and says I hate his family. I am at my wits end. What the hell I am suppose to do? Sorry for the long vent, but I have NO one else to talk to about it, so that is why I turned to this forum. I don't want to trash him to family and friends, and I try to keep it between us, but I am so tired of holding it all in! Is it time to throw in the towel?


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

First of all, so sorry you're going through this, Proud. And you do sound proud of being a mom, but not proud of the way your husband's treating you. Some people like to go to strip clubs (some ladies, but mostly guys). If it was okay with you, no big deal. But you've made it clear to him that your are NOT comfortable with him making that a part of his life, at least in the way he's doing it now.

Crazy that he and his bro left you in the parking lot to fend for yourself when you were 20. Disrespectful, immature and unacceptable. And two weeks after the wedding? Did he ever apologize for that? So that "first time" he tried to include you, but without ID you couldn't join them. He shoulda taken you to get your ID, or left with you and decided on a different night for the big outing.

Question - how is your sex life? Does he take care of your needs? If so, would you be willing to let him get visual gratification elsewhere, considering you see him as a good dad, etc? Sounds like no, from your post. In which case you NEED to either set boundaries on his behavior as to what is acceptable and why, and stick to them, or continue to live in pain... If that means no strip clubs and porn (umm, justfiable request), as your husband he should care what you think and respect how it makes you feel. If he won't even consider your feelings, you need to put consequences in place. ASAP. Men respond to "holy s**t, I may lose my wife over this childish crap. Maybe I need to grow up." Men want to be respected and admired by their wives, not feel ashamed. It's a reasonable concern you're bringing up, most people would agree with you 100%, as do I. A wake up call may be in order here.

Have you ever seen any evidence of, or felt that he may have ever acted out on his need for gratification elsewhere? (ie, an affair of any kind, suspect other women he talks to too much, etc)? If not, you're in a much better place than you could be in the worst case scenario. As a guy, I know it's harder for some of us to give up the "adolescent allure" of porn and strip clubs. Yes, he's 30, but you will see plenty of 40, 50 and 60 year old men at such clubs. Maybe they're not married, but the point is the allure is natural. Naked girls are hot. Some guys can set this actual gratification aside quite easily as part of growing up, when they fall in love, get married and start a family. Many don't, and it goes underground if they think their spouse doesn't approve. They think nothing's wrong with it, as they're not "doing anything" (like an actual physical affair). But the harm is that the spouse doesn't respect that, doesn't feel respected and resentment can build on both sides.

Since you "initially" were "ok" with him and his bro going to the club (ostensibly with you), he is hoping that it's just something you're not crazy about. 

Here's a thought...tell him you like sexy things and the naked body, but you don't like him experiencing that without you, (because YOU give him those things) so he can only go if you come along. I know you may not want to go, but my guess is the visits to the club will either become close to non-existent...or you both may enjoy a good time together and reap the benefits in the bedroom those nights, look at it as role play or fantasy that you're sharing...or he will hide it from you and you then HAVE TO BUST HIM. The second you make this ultimatum, put a VAR under the seat of his car, and a GPS tracker under the bumper. If he strays to the club without you, against your strongest wishes, then you have larger problems to deal with. He may not grow out of this desire easily, or ever. But he is an adult, and can certainly choose to avoid those situations for the sake of his marriage and the wife he loves. Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

"He is a good dad."

Good dad's don't act like your husband.

proudmom,

I am going to come from the point of view of the kids...so try and follow me here.

I was you're kid. I was that little boy sitting there admiring his father from afar. He taught me everything I (thought) was true in life, here's the top 11:

1. He taught me that drinking & driving is OK.
2. A wife is not to meddle in the affairs of the husband.
3. Women are to be treated as sexual objects
4. Sports are the most important thing on the planet
5. Dads should smell like beer
6. Dads don't have to be home 
7. Going to bars every other night is the norm
8. Everyone and everything comes secondary to my needs and wants
9. Your Mom's a real "b_tchy" person and never lets me do what I want.
10. Stealing is OK, as long as its not a big thing.
11. Porn is OK, as long as its hidden under the bed. 

I know what your thinking..."your father seems like white trash...nothing like my hubby....my hubby loves his kids and wouldn't teach these things to the kids."

How did I learn then? He taught me all the above and more by HIS ACTIONS, and it was only his actions that mattered. 

I'm gonna say it again:

*He taught me all the above and more by HIS ACTIONS, and it was only his actions that mattered.*

My father was a well respected member of the community. A professional with a nice house. Brought home the bacon...everything you would expect. It wasn't until he abandoned my mother (after 25 years of marriage) and little (she was 14) sister did his shield of lies unfold before my eyes. 

Unless he changes...which is possible...your children are learning way more than you think from their dad.


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## ProudMom (Sep 10, 2011)

Thank you so much for your support. As far as our sex lives go we are above normal. I have never withheld sex, as I know that sure wouldn't help our marriage. I have purchased and worn sexy clothes, he had a cheelerder fantasy, I complied, I am very conservative, so all of that was hard for me. He wants me to send him naked pictures when he is out of town on business, it was uncomfortable but I did it. I have tried. I don't know what else to do. He says that I please him in everyway, yet he searches outside our marriage. He does good, as far as I know (there is definitly a sense that he is hiding something, porn, etc.) But he doesnt go to strip clubs unless his brother comes to visit. His brother openly and publically makes fun of the fact that I don't like him going to strip clubs. My husband will half ass defend me, but it always turns into a joke about me being a prude. I couldn't go to strip clubs or watch porn with him, because it would be VERY painful after everything he has put me through. Thank you for writing from a childs point of view. That makes a lot of sense to me. It is so hard, to acknowledge that this may not change, that my kids and I will have to make a better way of life for ourselves. I don't want them to feel like that is how you live. And yes I firmly believe that I do not know everything. I think there is a chance that a lot more infedilty has occurred. But I don't know if he will ever tell me the whole truth. But really thank you so very much for responding. I really need it.


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## SIP (Jul 27, 2011)

He is disrespectful to say the least ... If you aren't comfortable with him going to a Strip Club (and I don't blame you) he needs to stop. You are his wife, you and your children should be his priority not some naked stranger showing her goods for money. I always thought of strip clubs for young, single people, not exactly appropriate for the married father unless the wife doesn't mind. You do mind and he needs to prioritize. 

~ Now if it were me I would pull a little reverse psychology on his a-- and tell him since you can't convince him otherwise maybe you should have some fun yourself. Tell him you are going out with some friends and one of the stops is a male strip club. (You don't really have to go) Come home and express how that was the best night of your life! How fun that was! Then tell how you can't wait to go again. ~:smthumbup:

Seriously he is not being a good father figure by ignoring one of the most important people in his children's lives .... YOU! As GM said actions speak louder than words.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> *He taught me all the above and more by HIS ACTIONS, and it was only his actions that mattered.*
> 
> .


Be careful of your thoughts,
For they become your words.
Be careful of your words,
For they become your actions.
Be careful of your actions,
For they become your habits.
Be careful of your habits
For they become your character.
Be careful of your character
For your character becomes your destiny.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

ProudMom said:


> Thank you so much for your support. As far as our sex lives go we are above normal. I have never withheld sex, as I know that sure wouldn't help our marriage. I have purchased and worn sexy clothes, he had a cheelerder fantasy, I complied, I am very conservative, so all of that was hard for me. He wants me to send him naked pictures when he is out of town on business, it was uncomfortable but I did it. I have tried. I don't know what else to do. He says that I please him in everyway, yet he searches outside our marriage. He does good, as far as I know (there is definitly a sense that he is hiding something, porn, etc.) But he doesnt go to strip clubs unless his brother comes to visit. His brother openly and publically makes fun of the fact that I don't like him going to strip clubs. My husband will half ass defend me, but it always turns into a joke about me being a prude. I couldn't go to strip clubs or watch porn with him, because it would be VERY painful after everything he has put me through. Thank you for writing from a childs point of view. That makes a lot of sense to me. It is so hard, to acknowledge that this may not change, that my kids and I will have to make a better way of life for ourselves. I don't want them to feel like that is how you live. And yes I firmly believe that I do not know everything. I think there is a chance that a lot more infedilty has occurred. But I don't know if he will ever tell me the whole truth. But really thank you so very much for responding. I really need it.


You answered how his sex is but yours sounds out of your comfort zone. Again how's YOUR sex life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

ProudMom said:


> And yes I firmly believe that I do not know everything. I think there is a chance that a lot more infedilty has occurred. But I don't know if he will ever tell me the whole truth.


If you feel you firmly believe this, please do yourself a favor and investigate, immediately.

If this is the case with him, I guarantee you won't get the whole truth from him. And don't let him know that you're investigating, just do it and play like all is normal. If you tip your hand he will go more secretive and make it harder for you to gain the truth.

I *never* would've suspected my STBX to stray...but I saw signs and most importantly, had a "feeling". I got into texts and emails, put a VAR in her car and office. I went from fearing that I was being paranoid and invasive, to being 100% sure (a few days later) that I was being systematically lied to by my wife. What i found out shocked me. I confronted her calmy and firmly, she denied and lied, several times. It hurt...bad. But I knew the truth, and that allowed me to make an informed decision that will affect the rest of my life. (left her 2 weeks ago and have filed for D)

Don't wish that on you for anything. Hope it isn't the case. But please trust me from my recent experience, if god forbid you do find out the worst, it will be much easier for you to make the tough calls with confidence and dignity. If you find nothing, then you just need to smack his a** into shape and tell him to grow up and be a man. Either way, please do some legwork, for your own sake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ProudMom (Sep 10, 2011)

Thank you all again. Golfer girl. I guess I never really thought about my sex life. It is sometimes way out of my comfort zone. And even though I try not to let myself get caught up in the insecurities of dealing with my relationship, I do. I try to make him want only me, even if that does mean being uncomforatable. He is still away with his brother. He called me tonight to talk to our oldest son about his soccer match and I broke down. I cried, and cried hard on the phone. I didn't want to. But i told him that he needed to be here working on us, working on our marriage. He apologized and said he thinks we need to go to counseling. I am glad that he suggested therapy. We both need it after all of this hurt. But his apology means little. He always apologizes after he has gotten to do exactly what he wants too. After he has already done something wrong. He ignores the moral obligation until after the fact. I also told him that I need his brother out of our marriage. He should have no influence on our marriage and their needs to be a boundary between brother and thrid party. We will see. Anymore I have little hope. But for our kids I pray he will become the man and father I know he can be.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

His brother is not the problem. Rather, he is an excuse your husband uses. Your husband is the problem. Your husband has the obligation and supposed commitment to you not the brother.

An apology is useless without appropriate action to correct the offensive behavior.

I wish you good luck!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Stonewall said:


> His brother is not the problem. Rather, he is an excuse your husband uses. Your husband is the problem. Your husband has the obligation and supposed commitment to you not the brother.
> 
> An apology is useless without appropriate action to correct the offensive behavior.
> 
> I wish you good luck!


Even so, you ought to cut that bozo out of your life. The brother is an enabler.

Your husband is completely dismissive of your wishes and committed to a path of doom.

Do you really want him? Why?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You are an abused woman, who is gonna be miserable, and live in misery your whole life

You will get half of everything if you D., why do you stick around

You obviously have no self esteen whatsoever---2 weeks into your mge., you should have left

You saw none of this, side of your H, when you were dating, prior to getting married?????

If you stay cuz, he is supplying the money to live on, and he takes care of your physical needs, and that's enuff for you---then be prepared for a lifetime of what you are going thru now----people don't change, unless something forces that change

Whatever you do good luck to you


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## ProudMom (Sep 10, 2011)

It is literally taking everything I have not to pack my kids up and leave right now. I understand that the reasons I am with this man are beyond me. But I am a stay-at-home mom. I have no personal funds. But my husband is not a heartless man. If I ask him for the funds to leave, he will give them to me. But I have to drop my pride enough to ask. When he gets home from his trip we are going to discuss this. But he is ****ing around on his way back and taking his sweet time. I don't want to be in the marriage (in its current condition) another day. I agree it is abusive emotionally to have this type of relationship. And the anger, bitterness, and sadness, have changed who I am as a wife. I am probably emotionally abusive to him as well. Nothing he does makes me happy even when he IS trying. I am so completely enraged with him, his behavior, his lack of empathy, his lack of perspective, and his selfish attitude that walking out of this door would be easy. But how am I going to get past all of this anger, etc. if I don't confront it? I don't want to feel like this for the rest of my life.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

"I don't want to be in the marriage (in its current condition) another day."

This is what you need to tell him. If he doesn't understand how his ACTIONS are what makes the difference. Then there has to be a consequence for said actions. Lets be honest...it's not like you're asking him to not watch football on Sunday. You are asking him to stop very destructive behavior. Destructive to you, the marriage and your children.

"I don't want to feel like this for the rest of my life."

You can be sure that you won't. Half the battle is communicating the real issues to your spouse....not by _your_ words as much as by _your_ actions. Once you make it crystal clear to him...then and only then will he be able to see the choice before him.

Remember...it is above all else *HIS CHOICE*..people can change if they want to.


I know that you are extremely emotional right now and this will make it hard to see the your path clearly. Just be aware of this fact and try to remain grounded in reality. Do not let him shift blame to you...*he will try.*


As far as his brother is concerned. That guy is a destructive force to the marriage and should be dealt with accordingly. He should be flushed out of your (and husbands) life. Until his brother understands that his wants cannot ever drive a wedge into the marriage...he is not welcome.


Hang in there.


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## ProudMom (Sep 10, 2011)

Thank you Geoffery. All of you are being so helpful and supportive. I greatly appreciate it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Some times you have to put someone's feet to the fire---to get change---as in get your H., to face some reality

Before you give it all up, why not try---a series of talks with your H.

Forget the counselor---or anyone else

Just you 2 face to face---schedule, some time---tell your H. to come the table with his serious complaints, as to the cause of the mge's failure---you do the same---also come with a list of positives----have examples of the problems, so both of you know complaints are based on reality

This may take more than one sitting, maybe several sittings---schedule them----no raising of voices, no arguing----just discuss back and forth

You have nothing to lose

If your H., refuses, then tell him Divorce is immediately on the table

He has to know he will be giving away half of everything---and it well could be you would get full custody of the kids---so he will think long and hard about crossing you

Take your shot----you have nothing to lose-----your kids have everything to gain---

If it doesn't work out, or he won't participate---well you know you at least tried!!!!!!!


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