# Patiently waiting for her "prime"



## Frustrated4Fifteen (Apr 20, 2011)

I'll try to get to the point as quickly as possible, but I think it fair to also give as much background information as is relevant:

We've been together 20 years. She's 42, I'm 40. We have 4 children between 8 and 16. She's a (new) nurse, I'm an engineer.
My sex drive has always been greater than hers, but to talk to her about it, she has always maintained that it's not that she doesn't want it, but this or that or the other thing is preventing us from it.

I can't remember a time in my life that I didn't have a desire to have sex every single day. During our 20 years together, it's never been that frequent. When we do have sex, it's always great. For the last 10 years or so, It's been in my mind that "she's almost there" - that magical age when a woman hits her sexual prime.

I still want sex every day. She seems to be perfectly happy with 1ce a month.
I'm tired of being patient. I'm tired of going solo. Where is that peak I've heard so much about?

I'm reading - just picked up "Divorce Busting" - and am working on everything I can think of to try to improve any situation that I am causing, or have caused that put us in this nearly sexless marriage. I need results. There have been a lot of stressors in our life that contributed to the issue, but the majority of those have been lifted in the last couple of years, and especially since the beginning of this year. My patience is gone.

I've tried talking to her about it. It usually leads to a fight.
I've done pretty much everything that has been suggested by friends, books, etc. and still nothing.

HELP!!!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

F4F,
Before making a suggestion, it would really help to know where you currently "are". 

Desires:
- You want it daily
- She wants it once a month

How often do you actually have sex? 

Is that frequency fairly consistent, or has it varied a lot over the last 2-3 years? 

Clearly your W does not like sex very much. Have you asked her in a non-threatening way why that is? 

Are you in good shape? Do you workout/run/lift? 

How about her?





Frustrated4Fifteen said:


> I'll try to get to the point as quickly as possible, but I think it fair to also give as much background information as is relevant:
> 
> We've been together 20 years. She's 42, I'm 40. We have 4 children between 8 and 16. She's a (new) nurse, I'm an engineer.
> My sex drive has always been greater than hers, but to talk to her about it, she has always maintained that it's not that she doesn't want it, but this or that or the other thing is preventing us from it.
> ...


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## Frustrated4Fifteen (Apr 20, 2011)

We actually have sex once a month (give or take a week). Basically whenever she's ready. If I make more attempts, she claims that I'm pressuring her, or that "it's never enough" for me.

She claims, no swears, she does like sex. We've had the conversation in non-confrontational terms as well as during more hostile times.

The frequency has been consistent for years. I believe she only has sex with me that often because she knows I will leave, or have an affair if it were to become less.
I'm in "OK" shape - 6', 205. I lift here and there and have recently started a regular - 5 day/week - program that involves some cardio, but not as much as I know it should.
She does more cardio than I (treadmill on and off), but does not lift and is a little more overweight than I am.

She has said in the past that she has to be in exactly the right mood/mindset/situation.
My counter of "that's not real life" usually triggers an argument.

We used to fight about money, or not spending enough time together, or how the kids are being raised/disciplined/given responsibilities, but most of that has been worked out over the last couple years. Now, it's pretty much only sex that we fight about.
I always want it, and she's always too stressed about one thing or another to be in the mood.


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## mswren7 (May 8, 2011)

Frustrated your wife sounds as though she has a lot on her plate being a nurse and raising 4 children. It sounds like she has a lot of other things to think about and sex can become another chore.

I'm in my forties and I think I have passed my prime now. In fact I feel as if I couldnt care less if I never have sex again, but that is just me. I think I was more sexed in my early 20s through till 40.

I know it can be frustrating though because I had the opposite of you, my husband had a low interest in sex right even when we were dating and still has, I married him because I thought it would be easier to deal with a man who wasnt so demanding for sex but this eventually worked against me and he cheated, but that's another story.

I hope you find some resolve on this issue.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I wouldn't put all my eggs in the I'm waiting for her to hit her prime sexually basket.

you need to be proactive.

How do you get in the mood to have sex with someone who dosn't like sex?

maybe she dosn't orgasm enough to enjoy sex with you.

I would go on a sex strike and tell her I'm not interested until we figure out why you don't like sex.try to get her to open up some and explain what about sex she dosn't like.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Yeah, as the disappointed partner in a completely sex-free marriage I have to wonder what your wife's distinction between almost never and never really is? Once a month is for all practical purposes never. She figures, what? Take one for the team 10-12x a year or you'll bail? That's probably what she's debating. I bet if you told her you'd leave her if you made love fewer than 5x a year she'd consent 5x a year. She's trying to do as little as possible and still keep you.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I agree she is doing as little as possible to keep you. Waiting isn't going to solve anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife has given you all the info you need. Do not sit around waiting for her to become sexual. The info is:1. She admits that she is sexual. 2. She tells you she has to be in the mood.

What you don't see is your connection to #2. As a man, your sex drive just happens. You are waiting for it to just happen for her. For a woman to become sexual, the man has to pull what is buried and protected to the surface. This is the point you are missing.

So, since you are an engineer, I can put this into a formula for you. To access her sexuality you have to put your work effort into doing things that will make her more sexual toward YOU and stop doing things that make her less sexual toward YOU. Once you master that, you then have to work on her, but he first step is changing yourself. The things that make her more sexual are the things that make her feel that you love her as a person and not a sexual object.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

to the OP, i am in the exact situation, a little older, been thru it already, it never got better


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

My thoughts:

Some women never hit "their prime" that you are waiting for. 

Perhaps obvious but, most women don't "need" sex the way we do even if they enjoy it. Most though enjoy the connnection and the experience but, don't have the need to "release" the way men are so she probably will never really understand. 

Running a house, working and 4 kids is a tight scedule. Perhaps she feels she "can't win". If you were getting it once a week would you still feel "shorted". 


There are allot of good strategies that others have suggested some of them involve being Unavialble" in other ways. Not to play games but, to force her to change.


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## Frustrated4Fifteen (Apr 20, 2011)

@Chillymorn - she swears up and down that she does like sex, and likes it with me. I've tried multiple approaches to get her to open up about it, and that's all she'll say, is that she does like it - a lot, and it's not that she doesn't want it, it's just all the other things that prevent her from being "in the mood".

@Hicks - I see the connection. I'm working on my responsibilities in that regard. I have been for a few years now, and have stepped up the effort dramatically in the last 4 or 5 months. My problem with it is that I'm not yet seeing any results. So, I don't know if I'm working on the wrong things - I'm almost constantly tweaking my focus - or if I'm just on a wild goose chase.

@tjohnson - I don't know if I'd feel "shorted" or not, but it would definitely be a hell of an improvement. Deeper than that, yes, I would still like to have it more than once a week, but I'd be quite happy with that type of compromise 

@Runs - I'm not looking for the doing it just to have it done experience. We've been down that road before. Out of her frustration of us arguing about it, she has said "fine, go find someone who will meet those needs". I no more want that than she meant it. I'm just hoping there's a place we can find where I'm getting it much more often (with her), and she is actually enjoying it as much as she seems to on the few occasions when we do it now.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

My wife has had no real peak either. I don't care what anyone says you want lots of sex all the time stay 18-22!! 

We always average 2-4 times a week with 3 kids, but now she'll lock the door and at that point I know it's on!!


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

Holy Cow once a month!! and I thought I had it bad..

How did you let it get to that point.. its time to lay down the law..

You need to let her know you need sex.. put the fear in her that your gonna have it with or without her.. shake things up a bit, do not let her win..


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Your needs are just not a priorty to her. 
My wife would ideally be at 3 per month
I would ideally be at 15 per month
Our very happy compromise is 8-10 per month





Frustrated4Fifteen said:


> We actually have sex once a month (give or take a week). Basically whenever she's ready. If I make more attempts, she claims that I'm pressuring her, or that "it's never enough" for me.
> 
> She claims, no swears, she does like sex. We've had the conversation in non-confrontational terms as well as during more hostile times.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HelloooNurse (Apr 12, 2010)

Why don't you compromise? You want it once a day, she wants it once a month; why not do it once a fortnight?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

HelloooNurse said:


> Why don't you compromise? You want it once a day, she wants it once a month; why not do it once a fortnight?


thats not fair 

she is increesing hers by 100% but he is decreasing his by a much larger %


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

HN,

Let me put this in another context:
- Husband wants "us" to have a discretionary budget of $1,000 per month
- Wife wants "us" to have a discretionary budget of $30 per month

Your proposed compromise is a discretionary budget of $60/month.

In a negotiation, there is something referred to as an "insult offer". It reflects a genuine lack of serious consideration for your negotiating partners desires. 

Given their disparity - the solution is not an "insult offer". The solution is for her to teach him how to get her in the mood when she starts out not in the mood. Once she teaches him that - she will be able to feel good about a fair compromise. If she does not teach him that - and if she does not learn the value of respecting his needs, this will not be a healthy marriage. 




HelloooNurse said:


> Why don't you compromise? You want it once a day, she wants it once a month; why not do it once a fortnight?


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I've been waiting for the "Prime Time" to show up too.
This year she's 39 and I'm 40. 
I'm good with 2-3 times a week. that would be great.
Her - once a month or so give or take a month.
Go figure?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I don't think people should count on a woman hitting some kind of physical "prime". It's likely many never will. Sure, there are some perimenopausal and even menopausal women whose estrogen/progesteron/testosterone levels fluctuate to the point where the percentage of testosterone in the woman's body is higher and she may experience more desire. There's no guarantee that will happen, though. It sure hasn't for me, and I'm in my late forties now looking up at menopause through the front windshield!

However, you can have an emotional "prime", if you will. That can happen at any time. It has happened to me. I had an epiphany about a year ago and wanted a closer marriage with my DH. I took stock of our situation and made a conscious decision to fulfill more of the needs I knew he had in the bedroom that I wasn't fulfilling.


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## Frustrated4Fifteen (Apr 20, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> The solution is for her to teach him how to get her in the mood when she starts out not in the mood. Once she teaches him that - she will be able to feel good about a fair compromise. If she does not teach him that - and if she does not learn the value of respecting his needs, this will not be a healthy marriage.


I would love that solution. Many, MANY times I have solicited input on what she likes/wants, doesn't like, etc. 
I've tried to talk about it during sex - she said it breaks her mood.
I've tried right after - she says that was fine, or what you did tonight was good, do that, or some other vague input.
I've tried just at an opportunity for conversation - and I get the same vague answers. 
When pushed, it just turns into an uncomfortable "I don't know".


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

F4,
Read this link and then let me know what you think.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html






Frustrated4Fifteen said:


> I would love that solution. Many, MANY times I have solicited input on what she likes/wants, doesn't like, etc.
> I've tried to talk about it during sex - she said it breaks her mood.
> I've tried right after - she says that was fine, or what you did tonight was good, do that, or some other vague input.
> I've tried just at an opportunity for conversation - and I get the same vague answers.
> When pushed, it just turns into an uncomfortable "I don't know".


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Enchantment said:


> I don't think people should count on a woman hitting some kind of physical "prime". It's likely many never will. Sure, there are some perimenopausal and even menopausal women whose estrogen/progesteron/testosterone levels fluctuate to the point where the percentage of testosterone in the woman's body is higher and she may experience more desire. There's no guarantee that will happen, though.


 :iagree: It is hit or miss with ALOT of misses, but when it does happen, OH MY- LOOK out men! It hasn't happened to many of my personal friends, though one it did. Online I have found a couple handfulls -where it was just as overwhelming as my experience. So definitely something to those Hormonal changes being stirred up. 

If a woman is on any kind of medication, it might interfere with these hormones too. My HIGH HIGH drive lasted 8 full months, and it seemed to stop right when I started taking cholesterol pills- not sure if a coincidence or not. I still have a fantastic drive, but now I feel it is "the same" as it always was -just now with a sexually awakened mindset -because of that experience.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> :iagree: It is hit or miss with ALOT of misses, but when it does happen, OH MY- LOOK out men! It hasn't happened to many of my personal friends, though one it did. Online I have found a couple handfulls -where it was just as overwhelming as my experience. So definitely something to those Hormonal changes being stirred up.
> 
> If a woman is on any kind of medication, it might interfere with these hormones too. My HIGH HIGH drive lasted 8 full months, and it seemed to stop right when I started taking cholesterol pills- not sure if a coincidence or not. I still have a fantastic drive, but now I feel it is "the same" as it always was -just now with a sexually awakened mindset -because of that experience.


I think a sexually awakened mindset is a greater power than any kind of hormone. They say that the mind is the greatest sex organ we have.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Frustrated4Fifteen said:


> I would love that solution. Many, MANY times I have solicited input on what she likes/wants, doesn't like, etc.
> I've tried to talk about it during sex - she said it breaks her mood.
> I've tried right after - she says that was fine, or what you did tonight was good, do that, or some other vague input.
> I've tried just at an opportunity for conversation - and I get the same vague answers.
> When pushed, it just turns into an uncomfortable "I don't know".


Is there any reason why you don't just do more "action" on your part, and a lot less "talking"? I really like it when my DH JUST DOES IT. You know, maybe your wife is one of those who needs a lot of steering because she has no idea what direction to go in. Take the initative and lead her.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.


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## chingchang (Sep 21, 2010)

Frustrated4Fifteen said:


> I'll try to get to the point as quickly as possible, but I think it fair to also give as much background information as is relevant:
> 
> We've been together 20 years. She's 42, I'm 40. We have 4 children between 8 and 16. She's a (new) nurse, I'm an engineer.
> My sex drive has always been greater than hers, but to talk to her about it, she has always maintained that it's not that she doesn't want it, but this or that or the other thing is preventing us from it.
> ...


I feel your pain. I she on BC? If so...that can be a libido killer. Regardless...I highly recommend the book "The Way of the Superior Man". I just read it. Fantastic. Don't wait for her "prime"...it is a fantasy. Get what you want now. 

Good luck!
CC


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## Frustrated4Fifteen (Apr 20, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> F4,
> Read this link and then let me know what you think.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html


Little of that applies. There is no (or very little) 'sulking', or subtle clues like that. When we argue/fight, it's pretty much all out there, some resolution (or agreed impasse) is met, and we move on. Neither of us follow the other around, or try to get some sort of approval. 

We've been together over 20 years, and generally have a pretty well adjusted relationship. Just lacking sex.

Update to come.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I am confused. The theme of that thread is about expressing a lot more love (via some/most of the 5 love languages) than your partner really wants. 

For instance, if you are always saying ILY first, initiating hugs, calling/texting etc. That is a sign you are too "hot" for her comfort. 

The fact that she is SO comfortable shutting you down sexually implies a serious lack of respect for you. 

I don't "sulk/pout/act like a jerk" when my W is not prioritizing me. I simply reduce the priority I give her. It isn't an "angry" response at all. Simply a rational decision not to keep pouring most of my emotional energy into someone who is not reciprocating. And that approach has made for a happy, balanced marriage.

And initiating sex, and getting frequently rejected creates a LOT of BAD heat. 



Frustrated4Fifteen said:


> Little of that applies. There is no (or very little) 'sulking', or subtle clues like that. When we argue/fight, it's pretty much all out there, some resolution (or agreed impasse) is met, and we move on. Neither of us follow the other around, or try to get some sort of approval.
> 
> We've been together over 20 years, and generally have a pretty well adjusted relationship. Just lacking sex.
> 
> Update to come.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> I am confused. The theme of that thread is about expressing a lot more love (via some/most of the 5 love languages) than your partner really wants.
> 
> For instance, if you are always saying ILY first, initiating hugs, calling/texting etc. That is a sign you are too "hot" for her comfort.
> 
> ...


Tit for tat......

lot of people say you should never play the tit for tat game but I find life in general is all about tit for tat. as long as you just do it instead of saying if you don't do this for me I'm not going to that for you.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Enchantment said:


> I think a sexually awakened mindset is a greater power than any kind of hormone. They say that the mind is the greatest sex organ we have.


DEFINITELY - That is why there is HOPE for everyone. :iagree:


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Some women never reach a "prime." Ever. They simply look at sex as a low priority, regardless of attraction, age, etc.

It sounds as if your wife is one of those women. So if you're waiting for her prime - I suspect you may be waiting forever.

So decide whether you can continue to live without sex in this relationship or start looking at ways to get out.

I will never, ever understand women (or men) who believe it is their right to terminate or reduce the marital relationship on a whim and decide that the sex life of the couple is over without even considering or consulting the "other" partner in the relationship.

It's like me going out to buy a $30K car and not asking or telling my husband about it and just pulling up in the driveway with it after work.

Selfish and self-centered.

And spouses wonder "why" affairs happen. 

THIS is one of the reasons...


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I will never, ever understand women (or men) who believe it is their right to terminate or reduce the marital relationship on a whim and decide that the sex life of the couple is over without even considering or consulting the "other" partner in the relationship.


Short answer? Because people are brought up to believe, (rightly, IMO), that it is their ABSOLUTE inalienable right to say "no" to sex, at any time, any point, no matter what. Here, the irresistable force (marriage IS a sexual relationship, by any normal definition) hits the immovable object (any person has an absolute right to refuse to be sexual with anyone at any time, for no reason). Good luck figuring THIS out.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I firmly believe that it does not matter what your spouse was "brought up" to believe, nor does it matter what their "friends" tell them. The ONLY thing that matters is what I find acceptable behavior on her part, and she on mine. That is it. Full stop. 

On any given night my W has total veto rights on sex. She doesn't have to explain or justify. And she is entitled to a supportive reaction from me. 

It is also true that she is responsible for making sure that "overall" I feel "loved". That means her delivery style on that "veto" matters. And it also means that she is responsible for ensuring that I don't feel "starved" of sex, or generally deprioritized. She does a GREAT job of both those things. 




Sawney Beane said:


> Short answer? Because people are brought up to believe, (rightly, IMO), that it is their ABSOLUTE inalienable right to say "no" to sex, at any time, any point, no matter what. Here, the irresistable force (marriage IS a sexual relationship, by any normal definition) hits the immovable object (any person has an absolute right to refuse to be sexual with anyone at any time, for no reason). Good luck figuring THIS out.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I firmly believe that it does not matter what your spouse was "brought up" to believe, nor does it matter what their "friends" tell them.


Over here, it's the law. Surely you don't believe that someone's opinion entitles them to break the law, or for their partner to have to abandon their legal rights?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Sawney, it is their inalienable right up to the point of saying "I do". Now, certainly, anyone has the right to say "no" for temporary, unusual circumstances, but adopting it as a way of life amounts to giving one's spouse a divorce without affording them the right of a legal hearing and without giving them their freedom, basically, physical castration or outright murder would be far more humane. If you're going to be a husband or a wife, be one. If one chooses to be a sexless, single zombie, let them release their spouse and they can go be a zombie.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

OhGeesh said:


> My wife has had no real peak either. I don't care what anyone says you want lots of sex all the time stay 18-22!!
> 
> We always average 2-4 times a week with 3 kids, but now she'll lock the door and at that point I know it's on!!


From what tired parents have told me, 2-4 times a week with 3 kids is *often*. :smthumbup:

My sex drive went up when I was 24.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

There is no prime. Stop waiting for it.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Sawney, it is their inalienable right up to the point of saying "I do".


Legally, that isn't the case. Here in the UK, the concept of "ongoing consent" or "assumed consent" within marriage went down the can years ago. If you divorce someone for constantly refusing sex, and probably no-one is going to think worse of you, but neither partner has any right to sex in marriage. Consent exists only on an ongoing, case by case basis.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

There is no implied consent in the US. The default position is no, 100% of the time in all cases. They're just reflective of how people now think, and 'love' now.


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## Persephone (May 17, 2011)

Ever hear that sex begins in the kitchen? Not like literally, not on the counter, but as in small glimpses and a hug and then truly helping out with items. Small things like holding hands and sitting next to each other. Tiny minute things, a rub of the back quick as you walk by, a compliment, a notice of her scent. Start small and she will want to be closer, and closer, and she will want to have sex more often. Start small to help you both finish big. I recently heard the analogy that a man is like a microwave - able to get going quickly and to cook quickly. A woman is like a crock-pot - takes longer to get warmed up and can cook all day. Neither makes "better food" neither is wrong, just different styles. Take time during the day to appreciate and tell her about the little things and rewards come. If you can't verbalize and be vocal then be touchy-feely. Like I said, a small hug and a rub of the back, a quick kiss, inhale the scent of her hair, whisper to her neck.... small things throughout the day. If you are separate due to work schedules a phone call or text to say you are thinking about her. A suggestion that you will cook dinner on the grill, or to go out or order take-out. OR if you've got kids, you plan the next parent's night out - complete with setting up the sitter. She will appreciate it and she will want you all the more.

I think women DO hit a prime. or maybe a couple of them. But it takes help from their special man to see it. And exhaustion from work and kids does not help. What does help is the man showing with caresses that he is still interested regardless of all the exhausting life factors. And that he is interested in her, not only in sex, but truly in the closeness of her.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sawney,
I said my W is "responsible" for overall making sure I feel loved. I stand by that statement. 

I didn't say she was legally "obligated" because legally she is not obligated. And even if she WERE legally obligated and I could force her to have sex, I would never do that. Yuck. Rape someone you love? Hmmm I wonder how they are going to feel about YOU in the morning. And with my W it isn't entirely clear I would even survive til morning. 

With all THAT said, if she lost her desire to make the effort for me to feel loved, I would either end it or openly take a lover. Frankly I would likely give her a choice in the matter. 





Sawney Beane said:


> Over here, it's the law. Surely you don't believe that someone's opinion entitles them to break the law, or for their partner to have to abandon their legal rights?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Chilly,
Often "tit for tat" is a game of "you wronged me" now I will wrong you. That is something I generally avoid like the plague. 

This is much more a case of - it is very unhealthy to constantly love, comfort and reinforce your partners behavior when they are cool/cold/disrespectful to you. 

I am not going to be "disrespectful" back, but I sure can be around less and when I am around I can be fun/playful/pleasant without being warm. 

This is more a case of simply NOT encouraging bad behavior. And I find most of the folks who come on here who are being treated REALLY badly have gotten there by showing unconditional love to a very selfish/difficult partner.



chillymorn said:


> Tit for tat......
> 
> lot of people say you should never play the tit for tat game but I find life in general is all about tit for tat. as long as you just do it instead of saying if you don't do this for me I'm not going to that for you.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Sawney,
> I said my W is "responsible" for overall making sure I feel loved. I stand by that statement.
> 
> I didn't say she was legally "obligated" because legally she is not obligated. And even if she WERE legally obligated and I could force her to have sex, I would never do that. Yuck. Rape someone you love? Hmmm I wonder how they are going to feel about YOU in the morning. And with my W it isn't entirely clear I would even survive til morning.
> ...


I think this makes complete sense - I wasn't sure you'd got the difference between responsibility and obligation. I'm not always sure people do in these conversations! Also the last sentence. Perfectly open and above-board, everyone concerned knowing exactly what is going to happen and why.

My W is a third dan karate black belt and took up krav maga a couple of years back because karate wasn't challenging enough, so I know what you mean about surviving the night! The first five minutes might be a bit of a problem too:rofl:

On a more serious note, I brought this up 'cos it's something I had a bit of experience of. A bloke I vaguely knew when I was in the army was an early prosecution when the law changed to recognise spousal rape. The nasty little f*ckwit believed he had a "right" to have sex with his wife no matter what she thought right up until the moment the cell door shut behind him.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LOL - I personally have a real fondness for women with an "edge". I think you have hit on a really "core" point here. 

I tend to see most behaviors along a spectrum. For instance most (hopefully all) the male posters on here would not force their wives even if they were "legally" entitled. 

And I also believe there are many men who consistently have sex with their wives even though their wives:
- Won't kiss them any more (for whatever the reason) and
- Radiate a "hurry up and get this over with" vibe or even outright tell the guy to "be quick"

Those two things are really strong messages of "I don't want to do this". I am NOT comparing men who have "kiss free" and/or "hurry up" sex with rapists. I am not even suggesting they are "bad/immoral/selfish". I am merely observing that each time you have sex with a partner who is CLEARLY letting you know through their actions that they do not want to - you are harming the overall relationship, and definitely harming the sexual aspect of it. 



Sawney Beane said:


> I think this makes complete sense - I wasn't sure you'd got the difference between responsibility and obligation. I'm not always sure people do in these conversations! Also the last sentence. Perfectly open and above-board, everyone concerned knowing exactly what is going to happen and why.
> 
> My W is a third dan karate black belt and took up krav maga a couple of years back because karate wasn't challenging enough, so I know what you mean about surviving the night! The first five minutes might be a bit of a problem too:rofl:
> 
> On a more serious note, I brought this up 'cos it's something I had a bit of experience of. A bloke I vaguely knew when I was in the army was an early prosecution when the law changed to recognise spousal rape. The nasty little f*ckwit believed he had a "right" to have sex with his wife no matter what she thought right up until the moment the cell door shut behind him.


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## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Is there any reason why you don't just do more "action" on your part, and a lot less "talking"? I really like it when my DH JUST DOES IT. You know, maybe your wife is one of those who needs a lot of steering because she has no idea what direction to go in. Take the initative and lead her.


This is a great post. I see a lot of mention of leading. I want to do that but lack examples. Do you (OR anyone!) have an example of leading the wife to sexual mood/thoughts/feelings?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

jbird669 said:


> This is a great post. I see a lot of mention of leading. I want to do that but lack examples. Do you (OR anyone!) have an example of leading the wife to sexual mood/thoughts/feelings?


My DH has to do this a lot since I just don't have the same level of high desire that he does. A big key for us is the fact that I am willing for him to do this type of leading. I like it when:

* He comes up behind me while I am in the laundry room or at the kitchen sink, sweeps my hair up and kisses my neck then walks away.

* He reaches for my hand when we go out shopping.

* He makes a point of taking care of his physical appearance.

* He does flirty little things, like texting/emailing me little messages during the day.

* He pinches my behind and grins when he helps me out of the car.

* He slides his arm around my waist, squeezes, and then tries to playfully move his hand upward (especially when we may be out)

* During the moment, I actually like it when I can sense his urgency, when he positions me the way he wants.

I had gotten advice here from others that suggested some amount of playful "wrestling" can also work. We haven't done this so much, but it does seem like it could be fun.

EDITED To ADD: I also appreciate that he has more 'ideas' about things to do in bed than I. I admit that I sadly lack imagination in that department and I am self-conscious. He is good at being patient with me and keeps encouraging me and pressing forward, so to speak (pardon the bad pun.) He basically makes me feel like I am the only woman in the world for him.

Just some thoughts on things that work for me.


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## Frustrated4Fifteen (Apr 20, 2011)

Persephone said:


> Ever hear that sex begins in the kitchen?... What does help is the man showing with caresses that he is still interested regardless of all the exhausting life factors. And that he is interested in her, not only in sex, but truly in the closeness of her.


Yep. All of it. 
I'll repeat, we have 4 kids @ home between 9-15 y/o. She just finished nursing school - which is full-time - with a 4.0 GPA.
If there weren't cooperation and understanding on both our parts, that would not have been able to happen, and our house would be literally falling down as well.
All of the "prep" work, and "stepping up" for the man to do that is talked about here is happening, and was happening long before I ever knew this forum existed.


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## Frustrated4Fifteen (Apr 20, 2011)

As for the update I mentioned last week...

We had a lengthy discussion on the topic. At some point, I basically asked her how she would feel if I only had an intimate one-on-one conversation with her once a month - no more, no less. I'll save you the dialog, but she didn't really like the thought of it, nor me putting it in those terms - but she kind of saw the point. We went further to discuss the ins and outs (no pun intended) of what it typically took for her to be "available" sexually.
Which - according to her - essentially means she simply has to get herself mentally there. All the days worries and kid stuff, and house stuff out of her head, and the sexual mindset in its place.

I asked her how often she would like to have sex. 2 or 3 times a week she said. I'm like well why the hell haven't we been then? She said that with our lives being what they are, it just doesn't work out that way most of the time. I told her we needed to make it "work out that way" then.

Our initial solution - or at least starting place - was to put it on the schedule. Somewhat clinical, but I felt like it was a good place to start, and she seems to be completely on board with it. Maybe not completely "excited" about it, but we have very busy lives.

So, now we have set days where, when I get home from work, it has been agreed upon that we will be having sex. If she's asleep, I am to wake her up.

Since then, there have been 4 "dates". It was a little awkward at first, and I'm not convinced that she's not simply going through the motions, but she tells me she isn't, so I have to take her at her word.

It's definitely a work in progress, but I'm glad we have taken the first step.


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## mswren7 (May 8, 2011)

Good on you for being able to have an open conversation with your wife, and being able to negotiate a balance where you both feel satisfied. 

Seems like a mature way to handle things.


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## Married&Confused (Jan 19, 2011)

i really hope this works out for you. it didn't for me.

i've had these discussions before and keep getting these milestones that have to be reached... financial situation needs to get better, kids have to grow up, kids have to leave the nest. one after the other and still nothing improves.

she says she likes sex and when we have sex it is good for both of us. at one point she read about sex every day for 30 days and said we are going to do it no matter what. after two days she gave up.

if you are going to do it on a schedule, make it good each time. if it gets boring or stale, just another reason for her to look for milestones to try to reach before thinking of sex again.


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## Frustrated4Fifteen (Apr 20, 2011)

Without getting into the graphic details, last night was amazing.

it was the 3rd or 4th "scheduled" sex. The "clinical" feeling of it all is fading (last night did not feel that way at all). Earlier in the day, I mentioned our "date" once, maybe twice, by very nicely saying how much I was looking forward to spending time with her tonight. We had also had a good day with what little time we had by ourselves just hanging out and talking.
When I got home from work, she had just bathed, and we talked about our respective evenings for 30-60 minutes or so, and then moved on to more physical activity.

It was great. I told her so. She seemed quite satisfied, and I was quite satisfied.

Getting on the "schedule" was difficult, and awkward at first, but is really helping. She seems to be more relaxed, and I am much more calm and patient during the day... which in turn is helping her to be more relaxed, and more readily in the mood at night.

I'm optimistic about continued success. I think we're both still working on it, and hopefully will continue to improve for each other. The hardest part for me is going to be not letting myself get complacent. I know I need to remain actively involved in being and staying the man she wants to be with - sexually and otherwise.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bravo Frustrated,
Well done. Seriously. 

Now its also time to play some physical games with her. We play two different types of games
1. "better one/better two" with a full body massage and/or foreplay. 
2. "I touch / you touch"

The first is a "pleasure mapping" game. Do 2 slightly different things:
1. a light scratch up and down her spine (and say "better 1?")
2. medium pressure palm up and down her spine ("or better 2")

And she says better 1, and you do some variant on 1. She can also say "tied" if she really like both. 

And play around with different stuff fingers, palms, finger nails, etc. Speed, pressure, direction: vertical, horizontal, diagonal. 

This is a fun game and teaches you in a nice way how they best like to be touched. 

I touch you touch is this:
You have her give you exactly the massage she wants you to give her. And right after she finishes you show you learned the lesson by echoing it back at her. 

This can work for kissing - I kiss/you kiss. And at risk of being overly graphic - she can do this I touch/you touch thing using one of your nipples as a proxy for her joy button. 

FYI: I consider myself very very skilled at this game after playing for 2 decades. Still my wife is the sensei. She is able to massage the very center of my palm with her fingers - and the ball of my foot with her fingers - and by doing EITHER of those things she can make me totally hard. Lots of nerves in your hands/feet so massaging someone elses hands and feet can be very erotic for them. 




Frustrated4Fifteen said:


> Without getting into the graphic details, last night was amazing.
> 
> it was the 3rd or 4th "scheduled" sex. The "clinical" feeling of it all is fading (last night did not feel that way at all). Earlier in the day, I mentioned our "date" once, maybe twice, by very nicely saying how much I was looking forward to spending time with her tonight. We had also had a good day with what little time we had by ourselves just hanging out and talking.
> When I got home from work, she had just bathed, and we talked about our respective evenings for 30-60 minutes or so, and then moved on to more physical activity.
> ...


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## joelmacdad (Jul 26, 2010)

I can't agree more with Mem here on these "physical games" and especially what they do for my wife.

While she may decline an invitation for sex she will NEVER decline an invitation for a massage, foot rub, back rub. Unfortunately I used to resent the fact that i did this often but did not have sex reciprocated. Very bad on my part I know for sure now.

Just the other night we were both tired and neither of us was expecting anything. But I just got this urge to let my wife relax a little more as she fell asleep so I started a good back rub. I got the usual moans of acceptance and then asked her if she wanted more pressure or less. She wanted a mix, I gave her a mix. I moved to her feet where she likes very hard pressure.

Needless to say, we were up for another couple of hours doing much more than that and it proves for sure the erotic power of massage for my wife.




MEM11363 said:


> Bravo Frustrated,
> Well done. Seriously.
> 
> Now its also time to play some physical games with her. We play two different types of games
> ...


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Bravo Frustrated,
> Well done. Seriously.
> 
> Now its also time to play some physical games with her. We play two different types of games
> ...



I love this!!!!! :smthumbup:


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## Frustrated4Fifteen (Apr 20, 2011)

Unfortunately, my wife has made it clear that not only does a back rub not _necessarily _= turning into sex, it absolutely does _not_ = turning into sex. At least not unless it is clearly communicated beforehand.
According to her, a back rub or massage takes her to a totally relaxed and different place than thinking about sex. :scratchhead:
So, the whole "tired, relaxed, back rub, sex" progression isn't in the cards for me...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

First of all: This CANNOT be a one way street. Meaning this is something you get good at doing for EACH OTHER. 

Secondly: I am very happy to give/receive - or just give a massage and not have sex. It makes me feel good to make her feel good. Then again - she hasn't starved me for sex for 15 years. 

Thirdly: I bet your W likes edgy/dominant sex a LOT MORE than you might realize. 



Frustrated4Fifteen said:


> Unfortunately, my wife has made it clear that not only does a back rub not _necessarily _= turning into sex, it absolutely does _not_ = turning into sex. At least not unless it is clearly communicated beforehand.
> According to her, a back rub or massage takes her to a totally relaxed and different place than thinking about sex. :scratchhead:
> So, the whole "tired, relaxed, back rub, sex" progression isn't in the cards for me...


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## Zaphod (Jun 1, 2011)

The "peak" is a myth insofar as it happens to most or all women. Some yes, but if the husbands around me in my life are any indication it's something that appears to be confined to places other than where husbands are located.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Thirdly: I bet your W likes edgy/dominant sex a LOT MORE than you might realize.


And if she doesn't you will have dug yourself much farther into the sh*t so much more quickly than almost any other way you could think of!


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## wherm33 (Jul 11, 2011)

I think I may know the reason that your wife is fine with once a month? It's happened to me before! The reason may be that your rushing it!? Meaning, she doesnt feel sexy to you until you want her for sex. Everyone wants and needs things from her ALL DAY LONG she's a nurse and a mom! If you want sex from her everyday listen up! There is a point in time when women start to feel less than attractive and sexy, normally this happens after the children are born. Some women get it back but others... it takes a little push! 

1. Make her feel like the most beautiful women in the world once a day.
2. Complement her on her clothes, hair, legs etc. twice a day.
3. Date her, she needs to feel like you want to spend time with her other than in the bed! Pick a day any day of the week. Make that your date night. Take her to intimate places.
4. FOREPLAY the most innocent things can be foreplay for a women! Foreplay doesnt just take place in bed, its an all day thing! 
Follow my advice and see where it goes, I told my husband what I needed and now its no longer once a month!!I want it more than I ever have before! If you cant try my advice than you will NEVER have it more than once a month!


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## weR2 (Jul 9, 2011)

HelloooNurse said:


> Why don't you compromise? You want it once a day, she wants it once a month; why not do it once a fortnight?


I am not sure, but he wants sex 30 times out of 30 days in a month, and she wants sex 1 day out of a month, THEN 14 or 15 days per month would be a compromise. However, you suggested that 2 times per month would be a compromise? Or did I read that wrong?


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## weR2 (Jul 9, 2011)

joelmacdad said:


> I can't agree more with Mem here on these "physical games" and especially what they do for my wife.
> 
> While she may decline an invitation for sex she will NEVER decline an invitation for a massage, foot rub, back rub. Unfortunately I used to resent the fact that i did this often but did not have sex reciprocated. Very bad on my part I know for sure now.
> 
> ...


I tried this for a while some years ago and it at first it was great. Then one evening I was shunned, she indicated that the only reason that I did it was because I wanted sex. It has only seldom worked since then. Normally, she does not want the massage because she thinks that I am only doing it for sex. I don't know tit for tat, or reciprocation?


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## weR2 (Jul 9, 2011)

I have tried every method mentioned in this thread AND SOME. Communication was merely a temporary fix. At one point some years back I began to take over household chores so that she would not be too overwhelmed. Started slowly, but, within one year I was making sure that Children's lunches were made, having their breakfast "laid out/planned" before they went to school, cooked supper EVERY night (unless we went out to supper), made sure that the supper dishes were done before going to bed, did ALL the grocery shopping, paid all the bills (well I have always done that), took out the garbage, made sure that the pets were fed and watered, etc etc. It may have been easier to say that I did essentially everything except the laundry. Besides that I kept my full time job (manager in charge of working crews) and had other part time jobs/consultations that I took on. I often took the children with me to the "side jobs" so that when she returned from her job she could relax. This went on for a couple plus years and finally I just accepted that that is just the way it is. 

To this day, she mentions that to others as our compromise, when I hear her say that I think to myself, "What did she compromise? Give me more to do?" Perhaps she felt that I wanted to do all those extra chores and was being nice to me?? Anyway, we are still together, she climaxes at LEAST twice every time we have sex (which she will initiate once out every 100 times). Meantime, I hear stories and read posts that some women get to this "prime", but, have yet to meet a real person that has witnessed it, even though I am sure that there are women that reach this "prime". I suppose that it was my understanding of her, that we have been able to stay together for so long. Sometimes I wish that she would just try to understand me, as a male of the species. I wonder if it is because she believes that "men think from the head between their legs and not the one on their shoulder" (I hear that frequently). I think that I have tried to understand and accommodate her as a female of the species, and I suppose that it is debatable as to what that is.

Hence, as I read these posts from women in which their husbands have gone out and "cheated", I wonder if is because these husbands felt "cheated" first because they were not having their sexual hunger satisfied. It is obvious from the posts that women hunger for emotion and men hunger for sex. Having said that, could it be that if men give that "emotion" to women will the woman show her appreciation by having sex with him? Likewise, if the woman gives sex to the man, will he reciprocate with the "emotion"? I can proclaim honestly and resolutely that I DO!!! On those rare occasions that she initiates having sex with me, that she is "rewarded" emotionally threefold, until it becomes bothersome to her!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It's a bit like negotiating an employment contract. You're looking for the best long run outcome and they're looking for the least you're willing to accept.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

lol - read my other posts. She does prioritize my needs and I do the same for hers. A perpetual "cold war" of room mate like indifference would not work for either of us.

Not sure that I see compromise here. Seems as though you have just decided to do things her way to keep the marriage happy, hence your sanity. What a trooper you are! I understand exactly what you are saying though, it seems to work.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> lol - read my other posts. She does prioritize my needs and I do the same for hers. A perpetual "cold war" of room mate like indifference would not work for either of us.


I guess he's going to patiently wait while she spends her prime banging some alpha.


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## weR2 (Jul 9, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> lol - read my other posts. She does prioritize my needs and I do the same for hers. A perpetual "cold war" of room mate like indifference would not work for either of us.
> 
> Not sure that I see compromise here. Seems as though you have just decided to do things her way to keep the marriage happy, hence your sanity. What a trooper you are! I understand exactly what you are saying though, it seems to work.


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the note MEM11363, it was not your quote that I was attempting to answer. So I deleted the post.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This comes across as very weak. And I am almost certain she sees it that way also. Huge turn off for a woman. You started doing all that stuff and didn't demand reciprocity - huge mistake. BTW - reciprocity could be a nice long massage for YOU if she doesn't feel like sex. If she tells you she isn't "in the mood" to give you a massage that is a very different message. It really means - 'you and your needs simply aren't important to me'. That would never fly in my house. Not for a month - much less years. 

As for her initiating sex - who cares. If she mostly says yes to you and generally makes an effort to make it fun for YOU, that needs to be enough. 



weR2 said:


> I have tried every method mentioned in this thread AND SOME. Communication was merely a temporary fix. At one point some years back I began to take over household chores so that she would not be too overwhelmed. Started slowly, but, within one year I was making sure that Children's lunches were made, having their breakfast "laid out/planned" before they went to school, cooked supper EVERY night (unless we went out to supper), made sure that the supper dishes were done before going to bed, did ALL the grocery shopping, paid all the bills (well I have always done that), took out the garbage, made sure that the pets were fed and watered, etc etc. It may have been easier to say that I did essentially everything except the laundry. Besides that I kept my full time job (manager in charge of working crews) and had other part time jobs/consultations that I took on. I often took the children with me to the "side jobs" so that when she returned from her job she could relax. This went on for a couple plus years and finally I just accepted that that is just the way it is.
> 
> To this day, she mentions that to others as our compromise, when I hear her say that I think to myself, "What did she compromise? Give me more to do?" Perhaps she felt that I wanted to do all those extra chores and was being nice to me?? Anyway, we are still together, she climaxes at LEAST twice every time we have sex (which she will initiate once out every 100 times). Meantime, I hear stories and read posts that some women get to this "prime", but, have yet to meet a real person that has witnessed it, even though I am sure that there are women that reach this "prime". I suppose that it was my understanding of her, that we have been able to stay together for so long. Sometimes I wish that she would just try to understand me, as a male of the species. I wonder if it is because she believes that "men think from the head between their legs and not the one on their shoulder" (I hear that frequently). I think that I have tried to understand and accommodate her as a female of the species, and I suppose that it is debatable as to what that is.
> 
> Hence, as I read these posts from women in which their husbands have gone out and "cheated", I wonder if is because these husbands felt "cheated" first because they were not having their sexual hunger satisfied. It is obvious from the posts that women hunger for emotion and men hunger for sex. Having said that, could it be that if men give that "emotion" to women will the woman show her appreciation by having sex with him? Likewise, if the woman gives sex to the man, will he reciprocate with the "emotion"? I can proclaim honestly and resolutely that I DO!!! On those rare occasions that she initiates having sex with me, that she is "rewarded" emotionally threefold, until it becomes bothersome to her!


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## weR2 (Jul 9, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> This comes across as very weak. And I am almost certain she sees it that way also. Huge turn off for a woman. You started doing all that stuff and didn't demand reciprocity - huge mistake. BTW - reciprocity could be a nice long massage for YOU if she doesn't feel like sex. If she tells you she isn't "in the mood" to give you a massage that is a very different message. It really means - 'you and your needs simply aren't important to me'. That would never fly in my house. Not for a month - much less years.
> 
> As for her initiating sex - who cares. If she mostly says yes to you and generally makes an effort to make it fun for YOU, that needs to be enough.


Actually I am not complaining because the sex we have is good and I have no problem doing whatever to make the relationship work. I realized at the time that I was the "leader" and that she was someone that needed to be "led". I learned many years ago that nothing comes for free, and since I wanted the relationship to work I went the extra mile, and I needed the sex. DO KEEP IN MIND THOUGH, THIS IS MY "TAKE" ON IT! I am sure she sees it differently, but it doesn't matter. I made the choice that I wanted to have her as a wife and I tried to make it work. I knew that without the sex I WAS AN A**HOLE. So, I had to do what I did to keep the peace, or the children would suffer as well. But she even to this day reminds me how lucky I am for the amount of sex we have had, that no married couple has sex as often as us.

The whole point and reason of the post is that, in part (the other part being my need for daily sex), I always looked ahead for that day when she would reach the "prime". For that day where she would "romance" me. And now, as she and I talk about that "prime", we BOTH wonder when that will be, or will it. Perhaps she has had so much over the past years that it is not important? Perhaps she is at her prime and that is as good as it gets? Perhaps I plain wore her out? Well we are still together and I am getting ready to chase her down and give her the ....... before supper. Dessert will be later.


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