# One Month on Advice needed



## piloth (Jul 9, 2017)

Hi Folks,

I'm 44 and my wife is just about to turn 40. We're both on our second marriage. We've been together 3.5 years and married for 2 years. 4 weeks ago my wife walked out and went to her parents and like others before me I'm heartbroken and in need of advice.

Our story:
We met via online dating and got along great. It is a cliche but I knew she was the one for me the first time I met her. When I met her she was in a place- baggage from her previous relationship (guy was anti commitment), and exhausted by throwing herself in to work to the point that she wasn't sleeping properly and was once found collapsed on the floor.

Getting together took time. Long story short we got along great but because her feelings were taking time (no pressure from me) she dumped me 4 times for very short periods before deciding I was the guy for her. Things were fantastic and four months later we moved in together having had an extended overseas trip that we both agree to this day is still the best holiday we've ever been on.

My wife and I would both like children. For both of us it is our #1.

Like any couple we fell out over some minor stuff in the early days. My wife is a senior marketing director and soon after getting together she looked at a globally based role.... I asked how much travel that would entail and how it would work if we were trying for a family. She didn't like being asked and shared all her thoughts concerning me with me now MiL whom wrote a lengthy 'how to understand my daughter email that albeit was never sent, I saw'.

Things were still in the main good and we married after 18 months. I was disappointed on the day after our wedding when having left my wife to sleep off her hangover, she appeared fully dressed and ready with her mum for our group breakfast, leaving me to then go shower etc and join the breakfast 20 mins after her. Similarly on the first night of our honeymoon having arranged a magical speedboat ride to our hotel through the Grand Canal in Venice, my wifes first priority was to get the hotel wifi code as her mum had sent some wedding pictures that she needed to forward to her siblings. I did politely explain I was disappointed and it wasn't well received.

In essence due to circumstances we have both changed jobs and moved homes 3 times since we have been together. Most recently 12 months ago when we moved 250 miles to be closer to her family but leaving me more isolated.

Ups and downs have continued. Not lots, and nothing major.... At times i have been very fatigued due to a long work commute and that has made me a little grumpy, but I acknowledged this and changed jobs.

Currently: my wife miscarried 16 months ago. For over a year she has been taking fertility drugs that have led to big mood swings every month and I have tried my best to be supportive... Some ups and downs have continued, but last August we finally bought our dream home together.

Last October she texted me from out of town (she was away with work) to tell me that after discussing our relationship with a girlfriend that evening she had decided she wanted a divorce. An hour later she called in tears from a train station toilet having just discovered she was pregnant.... we talked lots when she got home and things seemed back on track. Sadly at 11 weeks our baby died and my wife had to endure a particularly bad medically managed miscarriage. I stayed with her throughout the 14hr ordeal and we seemed closer than ever.

It is fair to say that after 20 years of wanting a child and with 40 fast approaching my wife has placed herself under enormous self pressure to be a mum and every month without success post this miscarriage has been a massive disappointment for us both that we've got through together.

My new job hasn't been going well for 12 months and it has got me down and somewhat taken over my thoughts and ruined my sleeping.

In April my wife looked in to IVF, and got really worried about the timescales involved and her rapidly approaching 40th deadline. She decided things for her still weren't right asked for a divorce and handed her rings back, then 5 mins later changed her mind. But it got her thinking about IVF using a sperm donor........

Since April we have been trying for a baby. We remained tactile, loving and sociable spending time together and always walking hand in hand. We even traveled Australia for a month together and got on great.

June 11th, I was at work and received a whole load of messages from my wife - Please don't give up on me yet. You do so so much, I'm so grateful for your support, I know I've been difficult to live with these past three months and I'm sorry, I overtthink and I know this is damaging us. I try to avoid any confrontation and I know this isn't helping. I fear I'm holding us back... together with a suggestion that we try and get away together for a few days....

3 hours later after no contcat she had nose dived and at 2 am the following day she asked for a divorce then did a pregnancy test..... positive. That day whilst I was at work she moved out and went to her parents.

I was and remain totally heartbroken. In the month that has passed my wife has gone from wanting a divorce as soon as possible to now of late not mentioning it. She has miscarried again 10 days ago. Refuses to come any where near our home as it is too upsetting.....

I did do the standard male begging and pleading as my world collapsed. Having calmed I have made it clear that I still love my wife dearly and believe we can work. My wife doesn't wish to try but is 'leaving the door open' Her plan is to get a place alone (forcing the sale of our home) to find some calm and then try donor ivf to focus on her number one goal of being a mum, using her parents and family for support.

We are in regular text contact.... my wife says she is heartbroken and wished with all her heart things were different... yet won't change her mind. 

I've started seeing a therapist whom believes I'm stressed and depressed..

My wife and I are meeting up weekly. Every time the chat is easy and relaxed, there are always extended hugs as we meet and part, and some tears on her part.

Even yesterday we met for lunch after she had a solo session with a marriage therapist. My solo session is next week before we then meet the therapist together.... albeit my wife remains firmly in the 'leave' camp. We talked, there were tears, my wife is clearly very upset we've parted...... we even ended up walking hand in hand back to our cars before yet another long tear filled hug to say goodbye.

My wife has texted since and plans to meet up next weekend. She mentioned the house sale (its not on the market yet) yesterday, but not any divorce ( and I know proceedings haven't been started).

Am I wrong to feel a glimmer of hope?
I want our marriage to work.
I know we've both been under lots of pressure due to circumstances and fundamentally our characters get on great

I just don't know what actions to take now and any and all views or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading


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## JBTX (May 4, 2017)

This is a very interesting story. Honestly I don't know what to tell you. I think I would hang back and not put any pressure on her, like you've been doing. But at the same time this woman is taking you on a roller coaster ride over and over again. If this is going to work you guys you both need stability.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

First off, welcome to TAM, but I am sorry for the reason you found us, and also for your losses. 

What reasons does your wife give for wanting a divorce?
What is your take on her reasons?

You may need to do the 180 on her to get her over this once and for all, reguardless if you reconcile or divorce. This back and forth is intolerable. This is a marriage not at Jr High relationship.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

piloth said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm 44 and my wife is just about to turn 40. We're both on our second marriage. We've been together 3.5 years and married for 2 years. 4 weeks ago my wife walked out and went to her parents and like others before me I'm heartbroken and in need of advice.
> 
> ...


My god man!!!! What are you doing!!!! It seems to me her parents have made her an entitled princess and you get played up and down like a yo yo. I'd bet her first marriage ended because of all the damn drama queen antics. He's a smart and lucky guy to have gotten out of this.

Get out of this madness while you can. 

You have a glimmer of hope for what? A life from hell????


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## piloth (Jul 9, 2017)

Hi Spicy,

All my wife has said is that this is no longer the relationship she wants for the rest of her life. No other explanation, hence working towards seeing a marriage therapist together. She just doesn't think we will last a lifetime.

My wife is very emotionally driven. My take is that after so many years of wanting a child and after three pregnancies and three miscarriages that my wife is now totally obsessed re becoming a mum.

I know she believes that stress is a factor preventing her from getting pregnant, and I fear this is all just a way to remove all stress, without realising that going it alone will be stressful

She once told me that she was an over thinker and that the risk with ruminaters is that they will often choose a path of certain misery, rather than endure the misery of uncertainty.

I wish i could 180... but her emotions are so up and down and she is the love of my life.


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## piloth (Jul 9, 2017)

Marc878,

Her first marriage ended after 11.5 years because she wanted to try for a child and first husband didn't.

I'll agree that her parents/ mum have a part to play in this, but its the whole baby thing that causes all her stress, i've been supporting her because remove that baby stress and thinks would be brilliant. We get on great and have had some amazing times........ she just feels a sense of unease


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

piloth said:


> Marc878,
> 
> Her first marriage ended after 11.5 years because she wanted to try for a child and first husband didn't.
> 
> I'll agree that her parents/ mum have a part to play in this, but its the whole baby thing that causes all her stress, i've been supporting her because remove that baby stress and thinks would be brilliant. We get on great and have had some amazing times........ she just feels a sense of unease


Nope, you are making excuses for her irrational behavior.

I suspect you are projecting your feelings of love onto her. She doesn't feel the same way towards you or she wouldn't be treating you like she is.

Better wake up and get out of your denial of who she is.

She's told you and shown you over and over. Your problem is you refuse to believe her.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@piloth, you seem to be be very accepting of her repeat push-pull behavior. Push-pull is VERY unhealthy and indicative of deeper issues, like a PD. 

I empathize with your situation and hers with the miscarriages. Out of curiosity, had you both been genetically tested? Had your sperm been analyzed for health, count, mobility, and DNA fragmentation/microdeletions? (Reading about her suggesting donor sperm piqued my curiosity) 

Had she had a full panel of blood clotting tests, including lupus anticoag and factor II gene mutation? Sorry to get all technical and personal, it's more just to get a sense of what's been done beyond the routine IVF treatment to help identify possible issues. Maybe you've already covered the above with your doctor. 

Switching the topic back to her behavior, she needs a lot of therapy and counseling. IVF is a process as if by design to make a woman's hamster run ragged. If she is already working a high powered job, there's been no real strong correlation between stress and pregnancy failure, although if the stress is depriving her of sleep or eating properly, then I'd say it does negatively impact on things. As a woman also in what can be a stressful job, I've decided to always put my health as the top priority. 

I'm soon to be 37, could not have children with my ex H, though we tried for several years when we were 28. He refused to look into IVF. We divorced for other reasons when I was 30. I am remarried and still childless. There is a lot of mental baggage that remains when you waste your good years with the wrong partner. A lot of repressed anger and resentment. I can admit that it is still there in me, even after years of healing. I agreed with myself that it is just a part of me, could stay inside and be managed but that my resentment will not be allowed to ruin the other good things in my life.

Sorry I can't offer more practical advice, other than making sure your needs are being addressed in all of this. She pushes you away but is afraid of being alone. Do some reading on the push-pull dynamic. And do not accept crumbs. That is not a relationship.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

piloth said:


> Marc878,
> 
> Her first marriage ended after 11.5 years because she wanted to try for a child and first husband didn't.
> 
> I'll agree that her parents/ mum have a part to play in this, but its the whole baby thing that causes all her stress, i've been supporting her because remove that baby stress and thinks would be brilliant. We get on great and have had some amazing times........ she just feels a sense of unease


I'd bet she had the same issues in her first marriage much more than she wanted kids and he didnt. Miscarriages are a terrible emotional experience and I think somewhere inside her head she is blaming you. The problem must be your sperm, not her. She is willing to leave you to find a "better" donor for lack of a better way to put it. 

My ex and I never had kids, ever doc we saw told her she would never carry to term, she had some surgeries to remove tumors etc. Kids just weren't in the cards, it wasn't anyone's fault it was what it was. That never stopped her from at first subconscious blaming me and later as she got older and the clock ticking being more vocal about it.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

In addition to what Satya said, hormones can make a woman crazy... literally. If she's on hormone treatment, coming off treatment, pregnant, or recently miscarried she's going to be temporarily insane. Add in stress at work and all the emotions related to the deep desire to be a mother and the loss of the pregnancies and I imagine she's a bit of a wreck.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

She also hasnt cut the apron strings from her mother.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hard to be married to an unstable person.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

piloth said:


> Marc878,
> 
> Her first marriage ended after 11.5 years because she wanted to try for a child and first husband didn't.
> 
> I'll agree that her parents/ mum have a part to play in this, but its the whole baby thing that causes all her stress, i've been supporting her because remove that baby stress and thinks would be brilliant. We get on great and have had some amazing times........ she just feels a sense of unease


You think maybe her asking for a divorce every 5 minutes may have had something to do with his refusal to sire children?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

piloth said:


> Hi Spicy,
> 
> All my wife has said is that this is no longer the relationship she wants for the rest of her life. No other explanation, hence working towards seeing a marriage therapist together. She just doesn't think we will last a lifetime.
> 
> ...


When someone says they "can't", what it means is they "won't"


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Hard to be married to an unstable person.


Agreed - there's a lot of personality disorder red flags there...


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

She needs professional help (therapy is a good start, to let it all out so the therapist can help her identify where the problem areas are). She also needs to tell her parents to back off. 

I had to tell my mother to STOP asking me when I was going to have a baby because she really wanted to be a grandmother. I am the oldest of 3. She KNEW my story and what happened in my first M better than anyone. She knew how hard it was to emotionally claw my way out of the abyss to a happier life. I literally told her to her face that I loved her and knew what she wanted, but that every time she even hinted at it, it was depressing me (and I'm pretty darn resilient), it was an insult to all of the mental abuse I'd endured (and learned to kick swiftly in the arse), and if she loved me and cared for my sanity, she was going to stop mentioning it or I was going to stop talking to her so I wouldn't have to hear it. 

She hasn't mentioned it since and we maintain a closer relationship for my protestations. Learning to give people a "piece of your mind," especially your parents, while acknowledging their needs are valid but inconsequential to you achieving results any faster, is an essential life skill IMO.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

UGH......... post went poof. There is something you are not being told... from your W.

Do you have a good rapport with her dad? This is by NO means her first "spin out."


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Satya said:


> @piloth, you seem to be be very accepting of her repeat push-pull behavior. Push-pull is VERY unhealthy and indicative of deeper issues, like a PD.
> 
> I empathize with your situation and hers with the miscarriages. Out of curiosity, had you both been genetically tested? Had your sperm been analyzed for health, count, mobility, and DNA fragmentation/microdeletions? (Reading about her suggesting donor sperm piqued my curiosity)
> 
> ...


Tried to PM you, unable. Does lupus play a role in preventing a pregnancy?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Run. Divorce before she gets pregnant with some other guys sperm THEN leaves you and you are stuck as the dad.

She isn't the love of your life. Only the fantasy part where she is the good girl. But the BSC part is a big part of who she is too. Is her crazy part the love of your life? Sounds like a nightmare to me

D and do the 180. If she's just temporarily crazy from hormones, she'll wake up and come back to you. But this time she'll know you actually have a spine and may not constantly sh1t test you. She acts entitled because she is and you and her family allow it

Gain some self respect and say no to the roller coaster of hurtful emotions


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Tried to PM you, unable. Does lupus play a role in preventing a pregnancy?


Sorry, Chuck, my PMs are disabled. 

Pregnant women with Lupus are labeled high-risk by default. It doesn't stop conception but it can increase complications, like miscarriage, in later stages of pregnancy. It's because of antiphospholipid and anticardiolipin antibodies, which are two antibodies in Lupus patients that increase chance of blood clots. They attack the lining of cells, the phospholipids, which is the fat around cells. 

I'm no expert, just did a lot of reading since it's genetic and I was tested some years back because it is in the family. Fortunately, I didn't inherit it.


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