# Pretty sure he's cheating - what now?



## helloimmarie (Nov 28, 2014)

My husband is at the very least having an emotional affair, but won't fess up to it. I saw a number all over our phone bill after I got suspicious (emotional withdrawal, no interest in sex, phone always on him, etc etc). I confronted him and he said he reconnected with an old friend and she was asking for advice about her own 8 year relationship that is not yet headed to marriage - I call BULL****. 

So, I got nowhere, and now am trying to figure out how to prove that I'm not crazy. So that's the first thing I'm looking for. How can I verify he's talking to someone? Reminder - phone is ALWAYS with him and is password protected so I can't look there.

When I ask him why he's unhappy, he says he doesn't know. He has battled with depression, so I know that's always something we're up against. However, I feel like this time he's depressed because he's stuck with me but wants someone else (we have a 16mo old so I think he wants to stay to see her everyday). I asked if he's restless - because we run a marathon of the same routine all week and then we run errands and do family stuff on weekends. He said that could be it too, we're basically either at work or at home and always together. He goes to the gym at night occasionally. 

I sent him away for a few days so he could get a chance to clear his mind, but also to see what life would be like if he were only able to come home in the morning to get our daughter dressed then come back and see her before bed. It seemed to work a bit, but I looked at the phone records and days later he was on the phone with the same girl for 40 mins. 

When I first confronted him about the phone bill, he got VERY upset and yelled at me. Saying he's going to get me off the phone plan, I'm crazy, this is nuts, this is not worth it,etc etc. I've read that cheating spouses do that - make the other partner feel like they're losing their marbles. That true?

When I brought up a couple other lies I caught him in, he stood up and got very aggressive with me. Even spit my direction a few times and threw our wedding picture out in the street (thankfully our daughter was asleep, we don't fight in front of her).

He's an awesome father, he's very attentive, helpful and playful when it comes to her. But with me...nothing. I love him, I would like it to work but I don't trust him right now.... 

My issues are these...
-How do I know he's for sure cheating? I need proof to feel at peace if I walk away 
-Is there something I can do to save this marriage?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

helloimmarie said:


> My husband is at the very least having an emotional affair, but won't fess up to it. I saw a number all over our phone bill after I got suspicious (emotional withdrawal, no interest in sex, phone always on him, etc etc). I confronted him and he said he reconnected with an old friend and she was asking for advice about her own 8 year relationship that is not yet headed to marriage - I call BULL****.
> 
> So, I got nowhere, and now am trying to figure out how to prove that I'm not crazy. So that's the first thing I'm looking for. How can I verify he's talking to someone? Reminder - phone is ALWAYS with him and is password protected so I can't look there.
> 
> ...


You have proof. He's spending more time with another woman. So stop buying into his lies.

Want more proof?

Easy. If he wants to reunite, meet him with a trusted friend or relative. Ask him once more the full scope of his relationship with the OW. If he pleads innocence, then tell him there is one way to be sure- he shows you and your witness each and every text or email so you can see for yourself. A truly innocent person would whip that phone out and make you eat crow. A truly guilty person would refuse or start making excuses- or would delete them as they came in.

Either way, make him put up or shut up.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

He would rather make you feel crazy than reassure you? Do you need any other proof?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Marie,
In a marriage the most important people are the H and W. Everyone else is at least secondary or less. The fact that he is helping another woman through her "tough times" as he ignores your angst and frustration is telling in and of itself. He is checking/checked out of the marriage and is staying for your child. That will not be sustainable long term unless he has some "side action" going on.

If he is willing to go to therapy I would suggest booking a counselor asap to see if there is anything left to save. What you have posted are indicators of your relationship heading south. Good luck to you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It's pretty clear that he's got something going on with the other woman.. the way he's protecting his cell, the phone calls, the way he's turning this on you.

Most cheaters use their car as a private phone booth. They think that it's a safe place. So they tend to talk to their OW while driving to and from work.

You could put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car. Secure it to a hidden surface with adhesive back Velcro. Up under the front seat, attached to the springs on the underside usually works just fine. After a few days check to see what's on it.

If you hear him talking to another woman and saying things that prove he's in an affair, copy the recording to a safe place. 

Do not say anything to him until you come here, talk it out and figure out your next step.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

I agree 100% with Elegirl. Also, if you goto the subforum you posted this in (Coping with Infidelity), on the first page of threads, there is one titled "Standard Evidence Post." Read it! 

I'm so sorry you're here 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CarlaRose (Jul 6, 2014)

Every word you wrote - every single word - is all the proof you need. Why are you looking for ways to keep engaging yourself in his infidelity?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I met a girl at university....we became - still are - very good friends indeed. We talk about anything and everything. I knew her so well that I knew when she lost her virginity without her telling me!

Have we ever had sex together? No. have we ever snogged? No. Do we talk about sex? Yes. Do we ever talk about sex together? Yes, jokingly in the next life. Do I love her? You bet...just as I love my daughter.

We only see each other maybe every 3-4 months because of geographics. When we do see each other we hug and sit close enjoying being together...but is it full of sexual tension? Certainly not!
We laugh, we talk, we talk about the past, our families, our spouses (she knows all about my marriage and I hers) etc.

Do I tell my wife about her?...well my wife knows we text/Whats App alot etc but I refuse to tell her any more because she is MY friend not OUR friend. I do not want to share her with my wife (they have met etc).....I have known her longer than I have known my wife.

Am I having an EA? Well....in that case I am also having an EA with a school friend who was my best man and who I have known 40 years.

I'm not saying that the OP's husband is NOT having an EA (or more) just raising an alternative explanation...


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

askari said:


> I met a girl at university....we became - still are - very good friends indeed. We talk about anything and everything. I knew her so well that I knew when she lost her virginity without her telling me!
> 
> Have we ever had sex together? No. have we ever snogged? No. Do we talk about sex? Yes. Do we ever talk about sex together? Yes, jokingly in the next life. Do I love her? You bet...just as I love my daughter.
> 
> ...


And if your wife came here, she would PROPERLY receive the same advice and support the OP is getting-her H is involved in an improper relationship with another woman.


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

askari said:


> I met a girl at university....we became - still are - very good friends indeed. We talk about anything and everything. I knew her so well that I knew when she lost her virginity without her telling me!
> 
> Have we ever had sex together? No. have we ever snogged? No. Do we talk about sex? Yes. Do we ever talk about sex together? Yes, jokingly in the next life. Do I love her? You bet...just as I love my daughter.
> 
> ...



I have a "girlfriend" like this. I've only known her for about 4 years. She confides in me, & I in her. She's 30 years younger than me though. We text & FB regularly. We are literally 1/2 the country apart.

We know about each others' marriages. That's how we became so close. Absolutely no PA or EA, just simply talk/vent.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

flyer said:


> I have a "girlfriend" like this. I've only known her for about 4 years. She confides in me, & I in her. She's 30 years younger than me though. We text & FB regularly. We are literally 1/2 the country apart.
> 
> We know about each others' marriages. That's how we became so close. Absolutely no PA or EA, just simply talk/vent.


That is BLATANTLY an EA. Please read "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Glass. You are disrespecting your wife, your marriage, the other woman's husband, and their marriage. No two ways about it.

How would you feel if your wife vented to a male friend about you, and she and said friend "jokingly" discussed sex together in the next life? Really, truly sit with that, imagine it, think about it. Would that be okay with you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Any female friend of mine is also friends with my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helloimmarie (Nov 28, 2014)

To those that say they have female friends they discuss several topics with, including sex...are you honest with your wife that you even HAVE those girl friends? That's where my husband is not the same. It's sneaky. I had to find out after interrogating him when I saw the phone bill, and even then it was a lot of work. If he was forthcoming, it wouldn't be so bad. 

I know I have a lot of proof right now (that he attempts or will attempt to explain away). But I guess what I'm looking for is the smoking gun, so I can say without a doubt I know what I saw/heard. EleGirl, I think I'm going to follow your suggestion and stick a VAR somewhere in his car. That way I can hear what's being said. Is it truly a vent session with someone and there's no flirtation? Or is there more? 

I'm dying to know what she looks like - and I know I shouldn't care. But I do. Is she prettier? What is it about her that I don't have? 

I truly never thought I'd be here, and I'm SHOCKED that my husband is doing this. We've known each other since we were 11, together for 8 years and married for 5 (we're now 31). He adored me early on, I thought I was finally in a healthy relationship once I decided to take him out of the friendzone. You just never know what may happen. I'm beginning to lose my faith in relationships.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sorry. Healthy relationships need work and established boundaries. VAR is a good idea. Weightlifter is the local VAR expert and has helped many. He could give you helpful advice on nearly every aspect of their use and operation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Why is having a friend who happens to be female 'improper'?

Does being married mean the husband is not allowed any female friends/confidants and the wife no male friends?
'Oh but he's gay'....

Yes my wife knows about my 'friend'....if she and I were going to have sex we would have had it decades ago.

Letting the 'other' have private conversations etc is simply a matter of respect. Allowing your partner 'their' space. 

First and foremost I am ME, then my wifes husband then my childrens father.

If my wife asked me if we talk about sex (in general) yes...do we talk about each others sex lives (in general) yes...
Just as I do with my 'best' male friend....

I see nothing wrong with it. We are all entitled to our own opinions....I respect others opinions


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

dignityhonorpride said:


> That is BLATANTLY an EA. Please read "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Glass. You are disrespecting your wife, your marriage, the other woman's husband, and their marriage. No two ways about it.
> 
> How would you feel if your wife vented to a male friend about you, and she and said friend "jokingly" discussed sex together in the next life? Really, truly sit with that, imagine it, think about it. Would that be okay with you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My wife, along with my daughter & her boyfriend, went with me to this girl's home to do a repair job in her basement.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Shouting, spitting and throwing a wedding pic'.

Not sure I'd need an EA/PA on top of that.

I've heard of spouses doing all sorts of vile deeds. Most of them less hateful than spitting. His emotional development must've frozen at 11 when you met him.

SPITTING!! Geesh!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

flyer said:


> I have a "girlfriend" like this. I've only known her for about 4 years. She confides in me, & I in her. She's 30 years younger than me though. We text & FB regularly. We are literally 1/2 the country apart.
> 
> 
> 
> We know about each others' marriages. That's how we became so close. Absolutely no PA or EA, just simply talk/vent.



It might not be, but it's not you who decides when it crosses the line to EA territory. That would be your spouses call. If you are 100% honest and your wife is cool with it, probably fine. 

If you are hiding, minimizing or in any way concealing any interaction with this friend, then you are interfering with your spouses ability to make that call, and I'd call it an EA.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

flyer said:


> My wife, along with my daughter & her boyfriend, went with me to this girl's home to do a repair job in her basement.


Start your own thread. I don't believe your situation will be of value to the OP, but maybe others.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

My wife has been spending a fair amount of time with the husband of a friend of our these past two weeks.

They are arranging a surprise 50th birthday party for me (my wife isn't very good at being subtle and I used to be a cop putting 2 + 2 together wasnt exactly difficult!....I'm going to play along and act surprised).....but I think they are having an affair.....(my call)

I know I might attract some 'cutting' replies.....whilst the OP's husband might be up to no good, what I am trying to get across is that having a close friend of the opposite sex doesn't always mean EA/PA etc.

- my wife isn't having a EA or PA......I just know!


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP, there's no doubt your husband is cheating on you and it's probably a PA.

There are things you already know that should point to this:

1 - How long have they been communicating? How frequently? What time of day? How long are the conversations? Understand that men don't fool around with EA's for very long. If they've been contacting each other for more than 2 or 3 weeks - probably PA.

2 - Have they had "opportunity" to meet up? If so - probably PA.

3 - He's hiding his communication with her. He doesn't want you to read what they're talking about. Why? It's probably sexual in nature. 

Even worse, he gaslights you and tries to intimidate you when you confront him.

You can catch him. You can get your smoking gun if that's what you need. Just follow the advice here and make yourself and expert on stealth technology. It likely won't take more than a week or two.

But the question you need to ask yourself is why would you allow yourself to be so disrespected? If he won't give you his cell phone to look at when you ask him; that's not a marriage. It's him calling the shots.

That said; step back like everything's fine for now. Don't confront him again until you've monitored him for at least two or three weeks. I'm confident you'll get your smoking gun. But if you don't; confront him again and tell him you will no longer accept what he's doing. And be ready to see an attorney if he doesn't turn around.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

helloimmarie said:


> To those that say they have female friends they discuss several topics with, including sex...are you honest with your wife that you even HAVE those girl friends? That's where my husband is not the same. It's sneaky. I had to find out after interrogating him when I saw the phone bill, and even then it was a lot of work. If he was forthcoming, it wouldn't be so bad.
> 
> I know I have a lot of proof right now (that he attempts or will attempt to explain away). But I guess what I'm looking for is the smoking gun, so I can say without a doubt I know what I saw/heard. EleGirl, I think I'm going to follow your suggestion and stick a VAR somewhere in his car. That way I can hear what's being said. Is it truly a vent session with someone and there's no flirtation? Or is there more?
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry, Marie; it's obvious that you're hurting, and of course you are. It's a hard spot to be in. I'm also a betrayed wife, and I also struggled with comparing myself to the OWs. Such a pursuit is a waste of time, though. It's never something you don't have or something they have. They are just different and willing to degrade themselves by being the OW. 

I hope you're able to get a VAR and some answers soon. Keep posting and reading.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helloimmarie (Nov 28, 2014)

Well, thanks to some of you (and the Standard Evidence post), I put a GPS tracker and VAR in my husband's car. Today was the first time using it and he did go where he said he was going to go. However, after that he said he was going to IHOP with the friend he was at the mall with earlier. I happened to be running errands near there and decided to track him on the GPS. Surprise Surprise, he was not at IHOP but rather a random parking lot about 10 minutes away, in a part of town he's never in. 

So I went there and saw his car in the parking lot. Thankfully there's a store next door I was able to sneak into to look through a window and inside his car. There was no one in it. I have since had a chance to listen to the VAR. Nothing there. He must be getting into her car. UGH. 

I have yet to catch any phone conversations, I'm hoping that's coming. I feel like I'm close, but don't have enough solid proof to confront him on. I want to HEAR something. I want a glimpse into this extra life he's living. It has me beside myself, I can't believe the amount of lies he's telling. I am in complete shock. 

So, I'm going to wait to confront him. Many suggested coming back here first after I get some evidence from GPS and VAR. 

I feel like such a desperate psycho stalking my husband, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a conversation with him without anger. With my daughter around, I don't want to argue so I am just building my case until I feel like I can confront and walk away, if that's what I chose to do. 

I stopped crying, which I think is a sign of what will happen when I confront him. 

"When a woman's fed up, there ain't nuthin you can do about it..."


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

The "MOUTH SHUT! EYES OPEN!" section of weightlifter's Standard Evidence Post is perhaps the single most important thing to remember when dealing w/ a wayward spouse.

And believe me... we know it's very hard to do.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

This must be incredibly difficult for you. (Wouldn't know; I confronted waaaaaay too early.) Just try to focus on the end goal: as you say, you want to know. One day at a time. Try to spend time on/for yourself, catch up with friends and family, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you think he's leaving his car and going with her, I think a PI is a good idea. Can you afford one for a short time? An afternoon maybe?

Do you have one VAR or 2? I suggest 2. It makes it easer to pull one out, replace with the second one. That way you have time to listen to and copy stuff off the one you have in your hands. And there is always one in his car.


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## helloimmarie (Nov 28, 2014)

I just looked into a PI and It's so expensive but the peace of mind - or whatever it is im looking for - just might be worth it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Marie, what kind of phone does your husband use?


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