# Divorce or stay?



## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

I’m 65. My husband and I have been married almost 5 years after my 30 years prior and his 35 years prior. We dated almost 1.5 years and lived separately because we were an hour apart. He really swept me off my feet! But it’s not been an easy 5 years. He always closes down when I want to talk about an issue. I get the silent treatment which infuriates me. He’s not an angry or jealous man which I’m grateful for as was my ex. He’s very talkative and silly which is good but sometimes excessive. He’s sometimes a mr know it all and insensitive to others including his kids and me. 
I got annoyed that when it’s trash day he frequently takes it out but doesn’t take any of the inside trash out. I reminded him of it and asked that he get the kitchen as I was in the middle of a project. Later I find it still there. I was annoyed and took it out myself saying. I got it! I return and he’s gone upstairs. He works and I’m alone all day so we usually relax together in the evenings. I texted him and said yes I was annoyed but it wasn’t that big a deal. It doesn’t have to wreck the whole night. He eventually comes down and says nothing. I finally say, how can we avoid this in the future? Hoping we can just talk. He says you can ask yourself that. I don’t have to deal with that kind of talk. I was aggravated but had said very little and hadn’t yelled which I reminded him of. It was garbage day so I thought he’d get the garbage as I’d reminded him about the kitchen.The problem becomes more about him clamming up, getting defensive, not talking to me, no attempt for resolution. He’s never understanding or sensitive towards me or comforting. I’m tired of feeling alone and unsupported. I know I’m not perfect but at this point I just don’t know how to continue. I ended up saying “I’m done”.This was last night and nothing else has been said. He slept in the other room. I just feel hopeless, alone and afraid. He’s just so disconnected emotionally, defensive and the silent treatment hurts more than an argument to me. What do I do?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It sounds like it’s really not about the garbage, that just seems to be a symptom of something deeper. The straw that broke the camel’s back had many straws that piled on before it.😔

Sometimes counseling can help but have you tried explaining your feelings to him as you’ve done here?

It’s hard to be with someone who is emotionally detached, I wonder if this is a byproduct of his first marriage. Maybe this is his way of dealing with conflict, to not deal with it. I understand your frustration but hopefully, you both can talk things out and meet each other halfway.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I was around your age when I divorced after a very long marriage. I slowly began dating again and then had a relationship with a man who was very much like your husband. He wanted to get married but my alarm bells were constantly going off and for once I listened to them and didn’t marry him. His refusal to discuss anything of substance and use of the silent treatment when I tried to talk to him about anything that wasn’t trivial convinced me our relationship wasn’t going to work and I ended it.

The odds that your husband’s going to really change aren’t very good at this point. You can continue to try to get through to him but I think this is who he is and communicating on a real level will likely always be an uphill battle. What is his age? Do you know why his prior marriage ended?

P.S.
It’s not a good idea to threaten that you’re done if you aren’t. Maybe you really are but when you say you are and then you aren’t you have to backpedal and that sends a message that he can continue and you’ll put up with it.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Your problem is not about getting annoyed that he didn't take the kitchen trash out. With the little information you gave, and reading between the lines, it seems that he just can't open up. he must not feel comfortable, nor probably knows how to do it. if you're 65, I gather that he's around your age, consequently, he's not changing, if that's what you're seeking. Can't teach an old dog a new trick. very seldom old people change their ways. You are trying to change him, that's for sure, that's why his response: 



VickiH1105 said:


> He says you can ask yourself that. I don’t have to deal with that kind of talk.


did you know this about him when you guys were dating? did you think that it was OK, but that you'd steer him right after marriage? are you willing to put up with his ways? if not than, get out, because, once again: he's not changing.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

*Deidre* said:


> It sounds like it’s really not about the garbage, that just seems to be a symptom of something deeper. The straw that broke the camel’s back had many straws that piled on before it.😔
> 
> Sometimes counseling can help but have you tried explaining your feelings to him as you’ve done here?
> 
> It’s hard to be with someone who is emotionally detached, I wonder if this is a byproduct of his first marriage. Maybe this is his way of dealing with conflict, to not deal with it. I understand your frustration but hopefully, you both can talk things out and meet each other halfway.


Well I was aggravated about the trash. I mean it’s trash day! I was annoyed since I reminded him but it wasn’t a fight, I wasn’t yelling but yes, he knew I was annoyed. Am I not permitted to ever get annoyed??? But it’s what happened after that brought me to total frustration. And to telling him I’m done! I’m so tired of this lack of communication and compassion and no attempt for resolution. We’ve had some counseling via BetterHelp so not in person and typically not together and usually it’s just me. His detachment may be the reason for his first marriage failing. 5 children, he worked a lot and she ended up depressed, on meds, drinking, violent outbursts and affairs. No excuse for her, she left her children except for the youngest who she pretty much kidnapped and hasn’t been seen for nearly 8 years. He tried connecting with him in the beginning but nothing since. His oldest daughter has cut off communication with him and it appears most of the other siblings. His oldest son deals with anxiety and recently very depressed . He wanted to tell him to pull his big boy pants up and knock it off. I was able to console his son and encouraged my husband to show more compassion at a difficult time. 
How do I proceed? I know I made the finalized statements. Out of frustration, anger, hurt! I take it he’ll say nothing. And if he lets me go, I go. Which he will because he doesn’t seem to care. I guess I was hurtful. I hate him sometimes or the lack of passion and connection. I’m feeling pretty hopeless. Thx for your response and understanding.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

VickiH1105 said:


> And if he lets me go, I go. Which he will because he doesn’t seem to care


This is your answer. You can blame yourself and make excuses, but that's they are, excuses for his behavior. There are worse things than being alone. You don't have to settle for this.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

Openminded said:


> I was around your age when I divorced after a very long marriage. I slowly began dating again and then had a relationship with a man who was very much like your husband. He wanted to get married but my alarm bells were constantly going off and for once I listened to them and didn’t marry him. His refusal to discuss anything of substance and use of the silent treatment when I tried to talk to him about anything that wasn’t trivial convinced me our relationship wasn’t going to work and I ended it.
> 
> In my case, he was very set in his ways and had zero interest in compromising. The only resolution to an issue was me giving in because he wouldn’t budge. As long as I didn’t try to have a serious conversation with him things were great but the moment I initiated a conversation about something that needed addressing he totally shut down and the silent treatment began. That would last from a few hours to a few days. Unfortunately, I think you’re dealing with a similar type.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your experience. I wish I would have been strong enough to back out when I was uncomfortable with this type of reaction from him. He’s 64, about a year and a half younger than me. As I said in a earlier response he rather swept me off my feet! We had a great time together, laughed and spent quality time weekends together. I was thankful he wasn’t an angry or jealous man as was my ex. I agree with you that I shouldn’t say I’m done if I’m not, but at the time of total frustration, anger, hurt, I felt no need to continue this effortless attempt of getting more from him! But yes, at this point I don’t know what to do.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

VickiH1105 said:


> Well I was aggravated about the trash. I mean it’s trash day! I was annoyed since I reminded him but it wasn’t a fight, I wasn’t yelling but yes, he knew I was annoyed. Am I not permitted to ever get annoyed??? But it’s what happened after that brought me to total frustration. And to telling him I’m done! I’m so tired of this lack of communication and compassion and no attempt for resolution. We’ve had some counseling via BetterHelp so not in person and typically not together and usually it’s just me. His detachment may be the reason for his first marriage failing. 5 children, he worked a lot and she ended up depressed, on meds, drinking, violent outbursts and affairs. No excuse for her, she left her children except for the youngest who she pretty much kidnapped and hasn’t been seen for nearly 8 years. He tried connecting with him in the beginning but nothing since. His oldest daughter has cut off communication with him and it appears most of the other siblings. His oldest son deals with anxiety and recently very depressed . He wanted to tell him to pull his big boy pants up and knock it off. I was able to console his son and encouraged my husband to show more compassion at a difficult time.
> How do I proceed? I know I made the finalized statements. Out of frustration, anger, hurt! I take it he’ll say nothing. And if he lets me go, I go. Which he will because he doesn’t seem to care. I guess I was hurtful. I hate him sometimes or the lack of passion and connection. I’m feeling pretty hopeless. Thx for your response and understanding.


I’m sorry to hear that things have been rough. And of course, you are allowed to feel anything you want. Just from what you’ve shared here, he seems “checked out” when it comes to conflict resolution. He just doesn’t seem interested (or capable?) of handling anymore conflicts when it comes to relationships. He doesn’t seem to only be this way with you, and this might be as good as it gets.

Interesting how you say he “swept you off your feet,” and now you’re dealing with a guy who is nothing like the person you married. But it doesn’t strike me that he’s purposefully trying to hurt you, he is just over arguing and if you don’t like it, he doesn’t care.

So, going with all of that, you should think about moving on and what that may look like. I have a feeling if you start getting serious about leaving, he may act like he cares and “sweep you off your feet again,” but it likely will go back to the way things are. Change is hard.

It takes two and you can’t be the only willing party to make things work. But for whatever reason he has become detached from emotions and the desire to want to resolve issues, he has to want to change.

There are other stories like yours on here so maybe check them out to gain some different insights.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

VickiH1105 said:


> Thank you for sharing your experience. I wish I would have been strong enough to back out when I was uncomfortable with this type of reaction from him. He’s 64, about a year and a half younger than me. As I said in a earlier response he rather swept me off my feet! We had a great time together, laughed and spent quality time weekends together. I was thankful he wasn’t an angry or jealous man as was my ex. I agree with you that I shouldn’t say I’m done if I’m not, but at the time of total frustration, anger, hurt, I felt no need to continue this effortless attempt of getting more from him! But yes, at this point I don’t know what to do.


I know too well how all that goes.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, his detachment absolutely could have been the reason his previous marriage ended. You’ll have to decide if he’s worth staying with and that’s never an easy decision, I know.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

I talked to him. I asked how he proposed we deal with this. He asked me the same. I told him I wasn’t sure. I guess we’ll have to sell the condo, the boat, our rv and get a lawyer. We rehashed the incident over the trash, how I thought it could be easily resolved even if I was aggravated. He said he was mad and decided to leave rather than fight with me. It seriously didn’t have to be a fight but I obviously can’t show him I’m aggravated because he can’t just apologize and move on so he detaches and ignores me and does not talk or try to resolve anything. That is why I then got angry. He admits maybe he has a character flaw and can’t give me what I need. So I said I’d contact a lawyer and we’d go from there. 
so here I am literally sick to my stomach. Im scared and feel like a loser and my husband doesn’t love me enough to actually try, to ever comfort me.
Im sorry, I just had to get it out!


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

Wow! Usually I do and I did! But I got busy and asked him to earlier so I was annoyed and probably overreacted! Not a major issue really. It’s the way I get ignored, no attempt to resolve any issues or even permitted the response he’d give to a customer that was aggravated about something. As his wife, I’d think it would be nice!


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## justaguylookingforhelp (Nov 4, 2021)

Sorry to read this latest update. But you aren't a loser and you aren't a fool or anything for having picked this guy. Time and again on this site there are tales of people who are fooled by their partners months or years into their relationship. And I think sometimes you can wave away some of these issues at first but then they compound over time. You aren't a loser for the relationship ending the way it did. If anything, your husband is the loser for throwing away a relationship because he is not willing to have a conversation or change at all. But that is often an overriding theme you see here too--people who are unwilling to do the basics.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

VickiH1105 said:


> Im scared and feel like a loser and my husband doesn’t love me enough to actually try, to ever comfort me.


Your husband behaves like a stereotypical passive-aggressive. From what you've reported thus far, it doesn't sound like you're losing much when/if you divorce. This is his basic approach to life. He's not going to change. And, like it or not, it doesn't sound like he's particularly emotionally invested in the marriage. 

And this is about a helluva lot more than who takes out the trash. Seriously.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

VickiH1105 said:


> Well I was aggravated about the trash. I mean it’s trash day! I was annoyed since I reminded him but it wasn’t a fight, I wasn’t yelling but yes, he knew I was annoyed. Am I not permitted to ever get annoyed??? But it’s what happened after that brought me to total frustration. And to telling him I’m done! I’m so tired of this lack of communication and compassion and no attempt for resolution. We’ve had some counseling via BetterHelp so not in person and typically not together and usually it’s just me. His detachment may be the reason for his first marriage failing. 5 children, he worked a lot and she ended up depressed, on meds, drinking, violent outbursts and affairs. No excuse for her, she left her children except for the youngest who she pretty much kidnapped and hasn’t been seen for nearly 8 years. He tried connecting with him in the beginning but nothing since. His oldest daughter has cut off communication with him and it appears most of the other siblings. His oldest son deals with anxiety and recently very depressed . He wanted to tell him to pull his big boy pants up and knock it off. I was able to console his son and encouraged my husband to show more compassion at a difficult time.
> How do I proceed? I know I made the finalized statements. Out of frustration, anger, hurt! I take it he’ll say nothing. And if he lets me go, I go. Which he will because he doesn’t seem to care. I guess I was hurtful. I hate him sometimes or the lack of passion and connection. I’m feeling pretty hopeless. Thx for your response and understanding.


I would feel empty and alone too.
I could never be with a man long term who didn’t show compassion and make effort to discuss how he feels about difficult situations. And even more so —-> how to resolve conflict without angry responses.
That would never work for me!

he needs tons of counseling help (individual) - if he isn’t committed to going every week for a year - to prove he is making progress to resolve conflicts appropriately - and to show love and compassion to people close to him… I’d leave him.

life is way too short to stay in any relationship that causes me to feel empty and alone.

Will he do long term counseling that shows results?

make a decision - act in that decision.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Vorpal said:


> *content removed *


really? She DID ask him to take out the trash.

it’s not HER fault he acted like a passive aggressive selfish jerk who runs and hides when he’s caught being lazy!

if you can’t count on your partner for the “little things” = you definitely can’t count on them for the big things!

being alone is better - mainly because there is less disappointment when a partner sucks.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

VickiH1105 said:


> I talked to him. I asked how he proposed we deal with this. He asked me the same. I told him I wasn’t sure. I guess we’ll have to sell the condo, the boat, our rv and get a lawyer. We rehashed the incident over the trash, how I thought it could be easily resolved even if I was aggravated. He said he was mad and decided to leave rather than fight with me. It seriously didn’t have to be a fight but I obviously can’t show him I’m aggravated because he can’t just apologize and move on so he detaches and ignores me and does not talk or try to resolve anything. That is why I then got angry. He admits maybe he has a character flaw and can’t give me what I need. So I said I’d contact a lawyer and we’d go from there.
> so here I am literally sick to my stomach. Im scared and feel like a loser and my husband doesn’t love me enough to actually try, to ever comfort me.
> Im sorry, I just had to get it out!


No one who hasn’t been through it really understands what it’s like to have someone you love refuse to communicate and pretend you don’t exist until they decide you’ve been punished enough. It’s early yet so your husband may decide to backpedal but one thing he’s unlikely to do is change so if you decide to stay with him you’ll have to accept that you’ll very likely be doing all the compromising.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Part of his problem may be him having thin skin. 
This is that long-term, and imprinted reflex/response.
He brought that old baggage in with him

His former wife may have been a nag. 
His response to her nagging was to shut down and do the minimum asked.

He has given up on fully cooperating.

Yes, that old dog, not willing to learn, or do ANYTHING.

To him, your asking most anything, even something reasonable is seen as that micro-managing to him.

As we age, we lose a lot of patience for others and their needs.
Many get cranky and rebellious in their old age.

He sounds fixed-in-place, and set in his ways.

Think about it.....
It takes energy to be patient. 
Energy to do anything, even think clearly.

It takes a certain energy level and mindset to be generous, kind, and attentive.
Aging is often anathema to these mental states..

The old body is tired and achy all the time.

Men lose muscle tone, lose testosterone and its effect on drive and endurance.
Every move is a chore.

They do not want to do anything, that seems.....extra.

Ugh.

This is real.

Yes, women suffer from similar maladies and can become energy depleted, chair-bound and cranky filled.

I am a *Martian* and have _Natural Immunity_ to much of this.

Uh, right.



_Are Dee-_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I just reread your past threads. My advice then was that he wasn’t going to change and it sounds as if he hasn’t. It’s probably time for both of you to move on.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> Your husband behaves like a stereotypical passive-aggressive. From what you've reported thus far, it doesn't sound like you're losing much when/if you divorce. This is his basic approach to life. He's not going to change. And, like it or not, it doesn't sound like he's particularly emotionally invested in the marriage.
> 
> And this is about a helluva lot more than who takes out the trash. Seriously.


You are so right on all accounts! The trash was just me being aggravated. Everything else is him checking out and being emotionally detached. Guess he just doesn’t care enough! But maybe it’s all me after reading someone’s response that I should do it myself! I seriously though could handle if he just would try.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I am NOT excusing his behavior.
I would divorce him.

Who needs this hassle and drama?

You married a broken down jalopy.
You want it to get going?
You insert the rusty handle, give it a spin, and pray it gets going.

The kind of antique car that only starts with a mind wrenching crank.

Yep, he is needy of being cranky.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

VickiH1105 said:


> But maybe it’s all me after reading someone’s response that I should do it myself!


Ignore those kinds of posts. There's always going to be some responses from the he-man woman haters club that say the wife is to blame for everything and men shouldn't have to do anything at all for anyone but themselves. It's just for attention, blow it off.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> Part of his problem may be him having thin skin.
> This is that long-term, and imprinted reflex/response.
> He brought that old baggage in with him
> 
> ...


Thank you for your insight! And talk about micromanaging, he’s quite good at that!


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Ignore those kinds of posts. There's always going to be some responses from the he-man woman haters club that say the wife is to blame for everything and men shouldn't have to do anything at all for anyone but themselves. It's just for attention, blow it off.


Thank you 🙏


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

VickiH1105 said:


> I talked to him. I asked how he proposed we deal with this. He asked me the same. I told him I wasn’t sure. I guess we’ll have to sell the condo, the boat, our rv and get a lawyer. We rehashed the incident over the trash, how I thought it could be easily resolved even if I was aggravated. He said he was mad and decided to leave rather than fight with me. It seriously didn’t have to be a fight but I obviously can’t show him I’m aggravated because he can’t just apologize and move on so he detaches and ignores me and does not talk or try to resolve anything. That is why I then got angry. He admits maybe he has a character flaw and can’t give me what I need. So I said I’d contact a lawyer and we’d go from there.
> so here I am literally sick to my stomach. Im scared and feel like a loser and my husband doesn’t love me enough to actually try, to ever comfort me.
> Im sorry, I just had to get it out!


I’m just guessing but I don’t think his reactions (or lack thereof) have anything to do with “not loving you.” Obviously, he has his side of the story too but if this is how life is going to be, then you’ll spend the rest of your days feeling the way you do now.

You didn’t do anything wrong, you believed him when he seemed in love and all in. Having said that, we all have flaws. But I just don’t think he cares to put anymore “work” into relationships. That doesn’t make him a bad person, it just means he’s not a good fit for you.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Sorry to hear things are looking like ending but probably the best - for both of you.

Speaking for myself only but maybe some insight. As some of us get to the later stages of life we feel like the effort and work to make a romantic relationship "right" and the "work" is a never ending or done thing. It just seems to lead to more effort and work. I've become conflict avoidant. I walk away instead of discuss, debate, or make much effort to "resolve" what seems to me to be not all that important. No I'm not going to change. I'm very low maintenance. For me only someone who is also very low maintenance works. I'm no longer good at helping someone feel wanted, respected, heard, etc. Once upon a time I feel I was. Not any more. I'm only in it for the fun part. When things start tipping towards the "work" side, I'm pretty much done. I just don't have the desire or wherewithal to make a lot of effort trying to get back what once was as it just never seems to get there. Obviously I'm not good marriage material and if I'm hollow and weak to some fine, don't care. Personally I don't know why anyone over 55 would get married again. The legal stuff only seems to me to be messy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

VickiH1105 said:


> As I said in a earlier response he rather swept me off my feet! We had a great time together, laughed and spent quality time weekends together. I was thankful he wasn’t an angry or jealous man as was my ex. I agree with you that I shouldn’t say I’m done if I’m not, but at the time of total frustration, anger, hurt, I felt no need to continue this effortless attempt of getting more from him! But yes, at this point I don’t know what to do.


Sounds like things were better when you were boyfriend and girlfriend living in your own homes and you were taking out your own trash rather than how you are as a married couple trying to be roommates. 

When you were in your own home did the trash just pile up for years or did it some how get taken out?

When he was in his own home was the trash piled up close to the ceiling or did it somehow get taken out there also? 

Assuming neither of you were living in squalor prior to living together, perhaps you were better off as BF/GF in your own homes.

That’s not at all rare for people in their 60s.

Is there any reason that you need to live together permanently?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

When I heard "swept me off my feet" I figured thar meant love bombing.

I know this well.

My ex was exactly like that....love bombed but was a phony as they came. Anything of substance....anything beyond sports and the weather made him uncomfortable. It was super important to plaster a phony smile in your face and pretend.

But behind that was a controlling, nasty, passive aggressive guy who made nasty comments under his brearh and was always looking for ways to control things to make up for his inability to deal with anything. If I tried to address anything he'd become nasty, then go silent, then ultimately play dumb until I dropped it.

Sound familiar?

I divorced him. The next one is going to get what I got and what you got.

I never understood the feel like a loser part....we all decide what we can and can't live with.

Next time beware of love bombing. I'm super sensitive to thar now and my bf of 3 1/2 years doesn't do it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My theory on love bombing is that people with issues do that deliberately — they don’t want to give you time to see behind the mask because they know you may rethink the situation if you do.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

How do I best say this? 

As a man, married twice, and I have a female friend in a failing marriage with circumstances not unlike yours.

Here is my read. He's fine. All of the concerns you have raised? Those are yours. You believe they should be his as well. He does not.

My female friend with the failing marriage, tells me that she has huge issues with how he interacts with her, or I should say, doesn't interact with her. She will express what she sees as a problem that needs to be addressed or that she feels no attempt on his part to make a connection ever, and he will respond with, "I don't know what you want me to say? I'm doing the best I can." 

I told her, and I'll tell you, but upon reading your latest update it looks like it has become self evident. He IS telling you the truth. You just don't like the truth. My friends husband and yours? They DO NOT possess the emotional toolkit to give you what you are asking for, or relate to you in the manner you desire.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

VickiH1105 said:


> .......He always* closes down when I want to talk about an issue*.
> 
> .......I got annoyed that when it’s trash day he frequently takes it out but doesn’t take any of the inside trash out.
> 
> ....... It was garbage day so I thought he’d get the garbage as I’d reminded him about the kitchen.The problem becomes more about him clamming up, getting defensive, not talking to me, no attempt for resolution. *He’s never understanding or sensitive towards me or comforting. I’m tired of feeling alone and unsupported. *I know I’m not perfect but at this point I just don’t know how to continue.* I ended up saying “I’m done”*.This was last night and nothing else has been said. He slept in the other room. *I just feel hopeless, alone and afraid.* He’s just so disconnected emotionally, defensive and the silent treatment hurts more than an argument to me. What do I do?


If only partially taking out the garbage is the biggest problem in your marriage, your glass is pretty full and count your blessings. I sense this is really a "power struggle" or dominance issue between the two of you.

If complete garbage removal something you want to end your marriage over?

If it is really that important to you, then swap him a chore and you do the garbage the way you want it. My wife use to complain about my not cooking or not doing the laundry. So I did the laundry, but she doesn't like how I do the laundry and will criticize me because of the way I do it. If I don't do it the way she wants it done, it is never good enough. The same thing with cooking. In cooking, I cook by taste not by sticking to detailed recipes. Our solution is I do my laundry, she does hers and we share some. As to cooking, I mostly become her su chief and chop and stir, except for those nights where I am in charge of dinner and she stays out of the kitchen until it is over.

One of the most important lessons in marriage, is that you can't change your partner to do things you want them done. Only your partner can change themself and then only if they want to. 

You have tried to get him to change. He doesn't want to for whatever reason, so stop trying to force him to change. Your choice is to accept the way he does it or trade with him some other choir by mutual agreement and then you do the garbage the way you like it done.

This again really sounds like a much bigger issue than just the garbage.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Emotionally you two aren’t a good match. He doesn’t intend to resolve conflict - he intends to avoid it… especially after creating that conflict himself.

this type of person is sneaky about being mean- but that’s what it is…mean.


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## Psyche74 (8 mo ago)

VickiH1105 said:


> I’m 65. My husband and I have been married almost 5 years after my 30 years prior and his 35 years prior. We dated almost 1.5 years and lived separately because we were an hour apart. He really swept me off my feet! But it’s not been an easy 5 years. He always closes down when I want to talk about an issue. I get the silent treatment which infuriates me. He’s not an angry or jealous man which I’m grateful for as was my ex. He’s very talkative and silly which is good but sometimes excessive. He’s sometimes a mr know it all and insensitive to others including his kids and me.
> I got annoyed that when it’s trash day he frequently takes it out but doesn’t take any of the inside trash out. I reminded him of it and asked that he get the kitchen as I was in the middle of a project. Later I find it still there. I was annoyed and took it out myself saying. I got it! I return and he’s gone upstairs. He works and I’m alone all day so we usually relax together in the evenings. I texted him and said yes I was annoyed but it wasn’t that big a deal. It doesn’t have to wreck the whole night. He eventually comes down and says nothing. I finally say, how can we avoid this in the future? Hoping we can just talk. He says you can ask yourself that. I don’t have to deal with that kind of talk. I was aggravated but had said very little and hadn’t yelled which I reminded him of. It was garbage day so I thought he’d get the garbage as I’d reminded him about the kitchen.The problem becomes more about him clamming up, getting defensive, not talking to me, no attempt for resolution. He’s never understanding or sensitive towards me or comforting. I’m tired of feeling alone and unsupported. I know I’m not perfect but at this point I just don’t know how to continue. I ended up saying “I’m done”.This was last night and nothing else has been said. He slept in the other room. I just feel hopeless, alone and afraid. He’s just so disconnected emotionally, defensive and the silent treatment hurts more than an argument to me. What do I do?


You just described my husband! He is so similar, not able to take criticism or apologize. I am 47 and sometimes I think of divorce. He is 51 and I am afraid the situation can only get worse later between us. 
I really agree with one of the answer that sad he just doesn't possess the emotional toolkit to behave the way you want him to behave. Mine doesn't either. Every time I express that I am hurt and try to discuss an issue I had with his behaviour he gets very defensive and the whole thing results in a big row. I just mention a little thing that hurt me. He could just say sorry and promise he will try to act differently. But he makes a big row that results in me withdrawing and crying.
I don't really know what to do. I am of course trying to change the way I react, become less sensitive to his insensitive reactions. No success so far. 
I understand he just doesn't have that sensitivity, the emotional toolkit in him, that I need. Can anyone recommend ways to go on and fix this relationship? Just adding, he never wanted to try counseling with me unfortunately. He is a Christian, solves his problems with praying.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

VickiH1105 said:


> He’s never understanding or sensitive towards me or comforting.


You knew this about him when you married him and yet you married him anyway because he swept you off your feet. You were so happy to have someone who didn't exhibit the traits of your ex that you overlooked his flaws so now, here you are. We all have characteristics that annoy others. Part of dating is to discover those characteristics and decide if you can live with them or not. You screwed up when you married him. He's not going to change and you know it. So now, you have to decide whether you can live with him as he is or not. If so, learn to deal with it. If not, divorce him.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> _*When he was in his own home was the trash piled up close to the ceiling or did it somehow get taken out there also? *_


Actually, I'd be willing to bet it likely *wasn't* piled up to the ceiling in Mr. Wonderful's house. And that's probably because Mr. Wonderful was spending more of his time at *HER *house getting most of his meals prepared for him - and provided by - the OP. So he likely wasn't MAKING much garbage, and certainly not enough to reach the ceiling. Easy to do when you're not cooking and doing things in the kitchen.

Let's not pretend this ignorant man-baby the OP married is too damned _good_ to do ONE thing around the house he *ALSO *lives in!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Did you start dating him soon after your divorce (and same for him) or did you each have time to be on your own for awhile?


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

Psyche74 said:


> You just described my husband! He is so similar, not able to take criticism or apologize. I am 47 and sometimes I think of divorce. He is 51 and I am afraid the situation can only get worse later between us.
> I really agree with one of the answer that sad he just doesn't possess the emotional toolkit to behave the way you want him to behave. Mine doesn't either. Every time I express that I am hurt and try to discuss an issue I had with his behaviour he gets very defensive and the whole thing results in a big row. I just mention a little thing that hurt me. He could just say sorry and promise he will try to act differently. But he makes a big row that results in me withdrawing and crying.
> I don't really know what to do. I am of course trying to change the way I react, become less sensitive to his insensitive reactions. No success so far.
> I understand he just doesn't have that sensitivity, the emotional toolkit in him, that I need. Can anyone recommend ways to go on and fix this relationship? Just adding, he never wanted to try counseling with me unfortunately. He is a Christian, solves his problems with praying.


I’m so sorry! It’s nice that he’s a Christian. Do you guys pray together? Hopefully God will convict him and show him how to be a good loving husband. Stonewalling is a very difficult and hurtful attitude. I actually shared information I found on that and passive aggressive behaviors with my husband. I don’t think they really understand


Psyche74 said:


> You just described my husband! He is so similar, not able to take criticism or apologize. I am 47 and sometimes I think of divorce. He is 51 and I am afraid the situation can only get worse later between us.
> I really agree with one of the answer that sad he just doesn't possess the emotional toolkit to behave the way you want him to behave. Mine doesn't either. Every time I express that I am hurt and try to discuss an issue I had with his behaviour he gets very defensive and the whole thing results in a big row. I just mention a little thing that hurt me. He could just say sorry and promise he will try to act differently. But he makes a big row that results in me withdrawing and crying.
> I don't really know what to do. I am of course trying to change the way I react, become less sensitive to his insensitive reactions. No success so far.
> I understand he just doesn't have that sensitivity, the emotional toolkit in him, that I need. Can anyone recommend ways to go on and fix this relationship? Just adding, he never wanted to try counseling with me unfortunately. He is a Christian, solves his problems with praying.





Psyche74 said:


> You just described my husband! He is so similar, not able to take criticism or apologize. I am 47 and sometimes I think of divorce. He is 51 and I am afraid the situation can only get worse later between us.
> I really agree with one of the answer that sad he just doesn't possess the emotional toolkit to behave the way you want him to behave. Mine doesn't either. Every time I express that I am hurt and try to discuss an issue I had with his behaviour he gets very defensive and the whole thing results in a big row. I just mention a little thing that hurt me. He could just say sorry and promise he will try to act differently. But he makes a big row that results in me withdrawing and crying.
> I don't really know what to do. I am of course trying to change the way I react, become less sensitive to his insensitive reactions. No success so far.
> I understand he just doesn't have that sensitivity, the emotional toolkit in him, that I need. Can anyone recommend ways to go on and fix this relationship? Just adding, he never wanted to try counseling with me unfortunately. He is a Christian, solves his problems with praying.


I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this too! Do you guys pray together? Someone mentioned passive aggressive behavior. I looked it up along with stonewalling. It is exactly what I’m dealing with. He had asked me if we could talk. I shared this information with him because if we’re to get better, we both need to understand this and work at it. It’s eye opening. At first I so appreciated that he wasn’t argumentative and jealous. I just didn’t realize what was really going on. We didn’t live together and we spent long weekends together with a lot of quality time. I know no one is perfect. I know I’m not. I’ve never known anyone that gave you the silent treatment (stonewalling). It’s helpful to understand this so you can deal with it or at least see if you’re both willing to. Maybe God will convict him and help him be a more loving husband that can communicate better. Good luck!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

VickiH1105 said:


> Well I was aggravated about the trash. I mean it’s trash day! I was annoyed since I reminded him but it wasn’t a fight, I wasn’t yelling but yes, he knew I was annoyed. Am I not permitted to ever get annoyed??? But it’s what happened after that brought me to total frustration. And to telling him I’m done! I’m so tired of this lack of communication and compassion and no attempt for resolution. We’ve had some counseling via BetterHelp so not in person and typically not together and usually it’s just me. His detachment may be the reason for his first marriage failing. 5 children, he worked a lot and she ended up depressed, on meds, drinking, violent outbursts and affairs. No excuse for her, she left her children except for the youngest who she pretty much kidnapped and hasn’t been seen for nearly 8 years. He tried connecting with him in the beginning but nothing since. His oldest daughter has cut off communication with him and it appears most of the other siblings. His oldest son deals with anxiety and recently very depressed . He wanted to tell him to pull his big boy pants up and knock it off. I was able to console his son and encouraged my husband to show more compassion at a difficult time.
> How do I proceed? I know I made the finalized statements. Out of frustration, anger, hurt! I take it he’ll say nothing. And if he lets me go, I go. Which he will because he doesn’t seem to care. I guess I was hurtful. I hate him sometimes or the lack of passion and connection. I’m feeling pretty hopeless. Thx for your response and understanding.


Read up n Narcissim. your H is exhibiting some of the traits and the symptoms in the family sounds like trauma bonds. They sweep yiu off your feet in the beginning but it wears of within 6 months. The silent treatments are a form of control. The ex wife disappeared went no contact, sounds like there’s a lot more to this story.


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## VickiH1105 (Jul 5, 2020)

Thank you for your response. I have heard other comments about narcissism as well as passive aggressive and stonewalling which I shared with him so he could know from a professional standpoint what he’s doing and how it’s affecting me and our relationship. Since he said he didn’t want a divorce, I think it’s important to work on these issues and communication. I don’t expect perfection. I expect working together. I’m not perfect, no one is. I just have a very hard time with the silent treatment. Thank you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

When the emotional part of any relationship is so empty that it leaves me feeling like I’d be better off on my own - that is when I know the relationship isn’t giving me what I need.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Stonewalling is a defense mechanism.

Building a mental wall is to keep out those alien thoughts.

It is a signal to 'not go there'.

It also is his way of hiding his weak underbelly.

Rather than fight he clams up.

Some here say it is a control mechanism, that could be the case.
It also could be the case that he controls his own emotions by going silent, and not responding.

His verbal gun is empty of bullet points in his defense.
Or, his mind goes into static mode, with that white screen display.

His parents may have verbally abused him.
He learned to eat his own emotions by not talking back.

I am not defending him, he is a grown man and needs to do that on his own.
Or, not.

I would divorce him and stay single and date around.

When your latest partner crosses any line, you send him home, forever.

Just Sayin'




_Are Dee-_


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## KingstonThompson (8 mo ago)

There are problems between you and your husband that need to be resolved. Tell me, have you already contacted a psychologist? I think your husband's behavior is strange and shows that he does not want to contact you. In my legal practice, I offer people temporary legal separation. This method allows spouses to solve their problems without interfering with each other. Most people who consider getting a legal separation do so because they are unsure whether they want to divorce their spouse.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

VickiH1105 said:


> I’m 65. My husband and I have been married almost 5 years after my 30 years prior and his 35 years prior. We dated almost 1.5 years and lived separately because we were an hour apart. He really swept me off my feet! But it’s not been an easy 5 years. He always closes down when I want to talk about an issue. I get the silent treatment which infuriates me. He’s not an angry or jealous man which I’m grateful for as was my ex. He’s very talkative and silly which is good but sometimes excessive. He’s sometimes a mr know it all and insensitive to others including his kids and me.
> I got annoyed that when it’s trash day he frequently takes it out but doesn’t take any of the inside trash out. I reminded him of it and asked that he get the kitchen as I was in the middle of a project. Later I find it still there. I was annoyed and took it out myself saying. I got it! I return and he’s gone upstairs. He works and I’m alone all day so we usually relax together in the evenings. I texted him and said yes I was annoyed but it wasn’t that big a deal. It doesn’t have to wreck the whole night. He eventually comes down and says nothing. I finally say, how can we avoid this in the future? Hoping we can just talk. He says you can ask yourself that. I don’t have to deal with that kind of talk. I was aggravated but had said very little and hadn’t yelled which I reminded him of. It was garbage day so I thought he’d get the garbage as I’d reminded him about the kitchen.The problem becomes more about him clamming up, getting defensive, not talking to me, no attempt for resolution. He’s never understanding or sensitive towards me or comforting. I’m tired of feeling alone and unsupported. I know I’m not perfect but at this point I just don’t know how to continue. I ended up saying “I’m done”.This was last night and nothing else has been said. He slept in the other room. I just feel hopeless, alone and afraid. He’s just so disconnected emotionally, defensive and the silent treatment hurts more than an argument to me. What do I do?


Sounds like he has major issues when you met him. This could be due to childhood trauma and he is emotionally stunted and unable to address issues like an adult man would. Instead as he thinks he is getting into trouble he simply shuts down, throws a tanturm, acts passive aggressive with the silent treatments and inability to communicate. Why did his previous marriage end?
The garbage is not the issue, it is the way he refuses to communiate. You might actually be better off on your own. What exactly do you get from this marriage, you don't even get proper companionship. It is like dealing with a 10 year old.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

VickiH1105 said:


> Well I was aggravated about the trash. I mean it’s trash day! I was annoyed since I reminded him but it wasn’t a fight, I wasn’t yelling but yes, he knew I was annoyed. Am I not permitted to ever get annoyed??? But it’s what happened after that brought me to total frustration. And to telling him I’m done! I’m so tired of this lack of communication and compassion and no attempt for resolution. We’ve had some counseling via BetterHelp so not in person and typically not together and usually it’s just me. His detachment may be the reason for his first marriage failing. 5 children, he worked a lot and she ended up depressed, on meds, drinking, violent outbursts and affairs. No excuse for her, she left her children except for the youngest who she pretty much kidnapped and hasn’t been seen for nearly 8 years. He tried connecting with him in the beginning but nothing since. His oldest daughter has cut off communication with him and it appears most of the other siblings. His oldest son deals with anxiety and recently very depressed . He wanted to tell him to pull his big boy pants up and knock it off. I was able to console his son and encouraged my husband to show more compassion at a difficult time.
> How do I proceed? I know I made the finalized statements. Out of frustration, anger, hurt! I take it he’ll say nothing. And if he lets me go, I go. Which he will because he doesn’t seem to care. I guess I was hurtful. I hate him sometimes or the lack of passion and connection. I’m feeling pretty hopeless. Thx for your response and understanding.


Sounds like your now H may be the source of all the marital discord in the previous marriage due to emotional neglect and an inability to connect on a deeper level. i am not saying the ex wife did the right thing but could have been her way of handling things. It looks like the poor kids were neglected on every level. If he has engaged with them and was a good father and there for them, the would have never cut ties. They probably know exactly what happened and how he neglected them all. If you want to live a lonely life, unable to communicate and just give all the time, then you are in the right marriage. perhaps you should just cut your losses and go.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

VickiH1105 said:


> Thank you for sharing your experience. I wish I would have been strong enough to back out when I was uncomfortable with this type of reaction from him. He’s 64, about a year and a half younger than me. As I said in a earlier response he rather swept me off my feet! We had a great time together, laughed and spent quality time weekends together. I was thankful he wasn’t an angry or jealous man as was my ex. I agree with you that I shouldn’t say I’m done if I’m not, but at the time of total frustration, anger, hurt, I felt no need to continue this effortless attempt of getting more from him! But yes, at this point I don’t know what to do.


I do not want to label him but that is what people with NPD (on the spectrum) do. It is all love, passion, sweeping off the feet in the beginning, then when they have you all the silent treatment, passive aggressiveness, lack of communication, etc comes out.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Deejo said:


> How do I best say this?
> 
> As a man, married twice, and I have a female friend in a failing marriage with circumstances not unlike yours.
> 
> ...


This is spot on! 👆👆👆👆👆👆
My H is the same and after putting myself through much turmoil over many decades, I have come to the conclusion that his emotional development was stopped when he suffered abuse around the age of 7-8. Emotionally he acts like a 8 year old. Throw tantrum, pouting, silent treatment, no ability to discuss, communicate, burying himself in alcohol when things are not going right. I was the person giving for many many years, he took and took. I stopped being a martyr and we ended up on a rollercoaster precipitated by his drinking. I detached. Men like this cannot be changed, they just don't have the ability to give you what you need. So you divorce or meet your needs elsewhere ( I am not saying commit adultery) but fill your life with what makes you happy. Let him be and leave him be.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

VickiH1105 said:


> I’m so sorry! It’s nice that he’s a Christian. Do you guys pray together? Hopefully God will convict him and show him how to be a good loving husband. Stonewalling is a very difficult and hurtful attitude. I actually shared information I found on that and passive aggressive behaviors with my husband. I don’t think they really understand
> 
> 
> I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this too! Do you guys pray together? Someone mentioned passive aggressive behavior. I looked it up along with stonewalling. It is exactly what I’m dealing with. He had asked me if we could talk. I shared this information with him because if we’re to get better, we both need to understand this and work at it. It’s eye opening. At first I so appreciated that he wasn’t argumentative and jealous. I just didn’t realize what was really going on. We didn’t live together and we spent long weekends together with a lot of quality time. I know no one is perfect. I know I’m not. I’ve never known anyone that gave you the silent treatment (stonewalling). It’s helpful to understand this so you can deal with it or at least see if you’re both willing to. Maybe God will convict him and help him be a more loving husband that can communicate better. Good luck!


My wife has similar complaints about me-- not talking, silent treatment, etc-- and they ARE valid. At the same time though, if/when I do engage it is a circular conversation over something stupid-- like garbage-- and it doesn't stop. Like Deejo mentioned, I do not have the emotional tools to participate in these conversations-- huge failure on my part in many ways. But I also do not have the energy to be criticized and THEN talk about it. It's such a waste of time and energy. I would say something like, why did you even have to bother me about the garbage? to be honest. So trivial. Get annoyed about THAT and yeah, I am going to shut down. Sorry.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

uwe.blab said:


> My wife has similar complaints about me-- not talking, silent treatment, etc-- and they ARE valid. At the same time though, if/when I do engage it is a circular conversation over something stupid-- like garbage-- and it doesn't stop. Like Deejo mentioned, I do not have the emotional tools to participate in these conversations-- huge failure on my part in many ways. But I also do not have the energy to be criticized and THEN talk about it. It's such a waste of time and energy. I would say something like, why did you even have to bother me about the garbage? to be honest. So trivial. Get annoyed about THAT and yeah, I am going to shut down. Sorry.


It is a matter of respect. If you care about someone, you make the effort, though it may not be your first priority. If your wife respects you enough to talk with you, cook your meals, wash your clothes etc. then you can accord her the same thing. Maybe she thinks washing your underwear is stupid and a waste of her time and energy, yet she does it, no? I have one word for this sort of behaviour Selfishness (unless you have an undiagnosed condition like aspergers, etc).


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