# Advice



## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

This is my first post in the Coping With Infidelity forum. I have been hanging out in the going through divorce or separation forum mostly.

Short version: marriage going downhill for a number of years probably due to both of our actions and inactions; she decides she wants a separation in which we can see other people during the time we will be living apart due to work; I agree but try to delete the other people clause but cave in to her while letting her know how much it will hurt me and harm us; she briefly dates and then sleeps with someone; she breaks it off and decides not to see anyone else while we are separated telling me how sorry she is and can see now how terrible it was.

I think we are both at the point where we have decided we will divorce when the separation is over (there are a number of financial and other reasons to delay it).

I am looking for advice on how to deal with the pain and hurt she has caused me. I have tried the no contact thing, and the we are still friends thing, and neither seem to work. Presently I am not communicating with her except for essentials. I keep having thoughts about her and him and am still in shock that this even happened.

What have other people done to get over the pain and hurt of infidelity? It has been about a month and a half and I don't expect to be over it, but in some ways it seems to be getting worse. I don't know if I want to forgive her so I can stop obsessing about it or just let the hate fester. And I have agreed for the time being to not see anyone else while we are separated, but I really don't even consider dating someone else an option right now so it was easy to agree to.

I am not looking for reconciliation. We would probably still be headed for a divorce even without her infidelity.

Hope this wasn't too rambling. Thanks for any help.


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## sdcott (Oct 9, 2012)

Hello,
So Sorry to hear. The pain of the betrayal is it's own thing for me. We are reconciling, but the emotions from betrayal are still real for me. I have had to take time to reflect on my own actions during the past 16 years that contributed to the deterioration of our relationship that made his choices possible. I am not saying the others decision to cheat is ever the faithful spouses fault, but it is important to take a long reflective look at yourself too. Starting a new life will require you to understand the good and not as good parts about yourself. You don't want to repeat the same pattern in future relationship(s). I have learned a lot about myself as well as about my husband. My biggest realization is that 100% percent trust is a bit akin to complacency and that is dangerous. I am not suggesting to be forever suspicious, but I was so completely trusting I did not even ask or admit something could be going wrong because I was so blissfully confident that love was enough. I have learned that love is important, but certainly does not make the marriage in itself. I was idealistic, now I am a realist that is healing and learning how to be married and do the work necessary to keep the relationship healthy. 
I still have obsessive tendancies because his "friend" emailed me pictures that were graphic and something I wish I had never seen!! I still get that heart beating through my chest sometimes when certain events trigger me. The facebook contact was for six mos. and the she moved to our area and continued for six months physical. Some say it takes about as long as the affair lasted until the daily images begin to subside. I hope they are right, I have five more months to go. I know there are no hard and fast time lines and everyone is different, I am allowing myself to go through what I need. 
My points being, it is hard, the pain of the infidelity is hard and it is real. Focus on healing yourself and learning how to become a healthy part of a healthy relationship. You need to heal yourself and make yourself ready for your future no matter who it is with.
Good luck to you
with care,
sdcott


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

Thanks for your words, and I am sorry for what you are going through.

I have been doing what you suggested. I can see so much now how I was at fault in the deterioration of our marriage. I lost so much of myself in it, and am now committed to rebuilding myself. I am in IC, not necessarily for the relationship but it comes up a lot.

So, I am working on myself and am feeling much better for it, but don't know how to handle the issues with my wife.

The only thing I can come up with now is to give it time, but it just seems to be getting worse with time.............


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## sdcott (Oct 9, 2012)

as they say, sometimes it is darkest before the dawn. Keeping looking for the sun. You will get there. I am much better now, but far from healed yet.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> she decides she wants a separation in which we can see other people during the time we will be living apart due to work


Can I just translate that from your wife's CheaterSpeak, please?

*"Dear hubby, I want to eat cake. Lots and lots of lovely cake. however, I would dearly like you to be my own very special Plan B, should I decide that a constant diet of cake might make me feel sickly."*

The question is, how are YOU going to respond to her charming and very thoughtful offer?

Oh! By the way, she doesn't expect YOU to find another woman or women! That was just so she would not look like a bad girl!

She'd probably hide her mouth behind her hand and giggle at the very idea! 

Why? Well, she is the Ultimate Babe and the World's Number 1 Foxy Lady! You are, well, you are her just her husband, you will not be able to get another woman!

And if you should, oh my good Lord! Just see the jealousy!


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Can I just translate that from your wife's CheaterSpeak, please?
> 
> *"Dear hubby, I want to eat cake. Lots and lots of lovely cake. however, I would dearly like you to be my own very special Plan B, should I decide that a constant diet of cake might make me feel sickly."*
> 
> ...


I understand your reaction. She stated at the time, and I believe her still, that she wanted both of us to be free to see other people. Its very possible she didn't see what that would do to the other person.

I am not interested in making her jealous and am not interested in reconciling (I am pretty sure that is true but am still working on it). I am only worried about the way I feel and how I can move on with my life.

And we are beyond that statement she made now.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

BTW she already tasted cake before the "dating allowed while separation" speech.

Sorry man. Time heals but better choose wisely what you do with it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Why are you not interested in reconciling?
> 
> .


The fact that she disrespects him in such a majorly, huge way, perhaps?

I mean, reconciliation is usually possible, but...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

You deserve far better, and there are definitely faithful and loving women out there conversely looking for faithful and loving men. If reconciliation is not an option, execute "the 180," attempt to detach ASAP, and file for divorce.

This will allow for your detachment, and time enough to grieve over the loss of the relationship prior to your moving on.

Best of luck to you my friend!


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Why are you not interested in reconciling?
> 
> .


Two reasons. One is the infidelity and the hurt she caused me. I don't think its something I can ever truly forgive.

The other is all of the issues we had before the separation. We are both taking the time to work on ourselves, and its possible we may come together again. But the people we were do not work together as a couple. As I look back over our relationship and analyze each of us, I find I don't really like either one of us. So I am working on bettering the only person I have control of.

I guess it comes down to I am not against a future reconciliation but I have another priority right now, as does she.


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

Acabado said:


> BTW she already tasted cake before the "dating allowed while separation" speech.
> 
> Sorry man. Time heals but better choose wisely what you do with it.


I know (she told me) that the reason she wanted that kind of separation was because she found herself starting to have feelings for another man.

Thanks for all of the input, this just sucks.......


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> It seems to me that you are indeed interested in reconciliation.
> 
> I say that because you were originally opposed to both of you seeing other people during separation, and because you are having a -normal for a loving BS- a tough time dealing with the infidelity.
> 
> ...


I have been giving that a lot of thought. I think the more clear way of saying what I meant is that I wasn't looking for advice on how to reconcile with her. My main priority is addressing the issues I have with myself, some of which negatively impacted my marriage, but not in hopes of fixing my marriage but in hopes of fixing me.

I think both of us would like it if after we 'fix' ourselves we would end up back together. As I type that I am not sure that is true. She has told me that she would love it if we found our way back to each other after dealing with our personal stuff. I am not sure if that is how I feel, though. It is definitely something I need to think more about. My gut says I don't want to ever be with her again, but I am not sure it isn't pain and anger talking.

She was the one who came up with the idea of going back to my original idea of not seeing other people out of respect to what we had and out of respect to our families who have also been hurt and betrayed by her actions. I have been contemplating telling her that I am stopping my temporary agreement to not see other people. But at this time I don't see a point. I am in no condition to start another relationship and don't really want to right now.

Thanks for the question, it forced me to put into words some stuff that has been floating around in my head.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

sdcott said:


> as they say, sometimes it is darkest before the dawn. Keeping looking for the sun. You will get there. I am much better now, but far from healed yet.


:iagree:


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You know Mr Ritter I think you are more mature and have a much better view of yourself.

Your wife should have learned a lesson in life and listened to you before she screwed the OM.

You have much more respect for her than she does for you. Remember that in the future.

I honestly think you are on the right track. Work on you.

Get yourself to a good place where you make your own happiness.

I also suggest going dark on your wife. Only discuss Divorce issues. Then when the D is inalized cut off all contact with her.

Why? Because she needs to be on her own to get used and abused. She needs to learn self respect. She needs to be less selfish.

And you will heal quicker without any contact.

Last but not least, do not think about connecting with her in the future. Go test the waters. You need to find someone new.

I think a new love interest in your life in the future will be an eye opener for you and yes, for her too!

Good Luck

HM64


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

My advice,

Be honest and say you do not desire to continue the marriage and that her sleeping with another man was the last straw. That you no longer have any intention of working on the marriage or in being her friend, you will file for D when the seperation is complete.

Tell her you no longer are interested in any contact with her and the only thing you now want s clean, easy, permanent diviorce from her so you can begin to build your new and better without her in it, life.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

MisterRitter said:


> Thanks for your words, and I am sorry for what you are going through.
> 
> I have been doing what you suggested. I can see so much now how I was at fault in the deterioration of our marriage. I lost so much of myself in it, and am now committed to rebuilding myself. I am in IC, not necessarily for the relationship but it comes up a lot.
> 
> ...


You move on by getting up every morning and putting one foot in front of the other. It sounds to me like you may be a bit obsessive (takes one to know one). I learned to redirect my thoughts. Whenever you start to think about the negative stuff, have an image in your mind that you go to. I used a zipline ride, plunging into a deep clear pool at my place on a river. I spent a lot of time on that zipline at first, but gradually the obsessive thoughts subsided.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

MisterRitter said:


> I know (she told me) that the reason she wanted that kind of *separation was because she found herself starting to have feelings for another man.*
> 
> Thanks for all of the input, this just sucks.......



Yes, this is the reason for her asking you for the separation. to sleep with the man she fall in love with, OM.

She asked for separation and inserted the clue of seeing other people because she wanted to test the waters but want to keep you as a plan B.

Spouses needed separation and want to see other people only when they have someone in their mind or they are having an EA. They dont want to feel guilty as they already have the permission to see other people. Selfish stupids.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

MisterRitter said:


> I have been giving that a lot of thought. I think the more clear way of saying what I meant is that I wasn't looking for advice on how to reconcile with her. My main priority is addressing the issues I have with myself, some of which negatively impacted my marriage, but not in hopes of fixing my marriage but in hopes of fixing me.
> 
> I think both of us would like it if after we 'fix' ourselves we would end up back together. As I type that I am not sure that is true. She has told me that she would love it if we found our way back to each other after dealing with our personal stuff. I am not sure if that is how I feel, though. It is definitely something I need to think more about. My gut says I don't want to ever be with her again, but I am not sure it isn't pain and anger talking.
> 
> ...


She would have even it you did not agree. That was why she wanted the seperation anyway. You are doing the right thing in fixing you. Take whatever path is best for you and your future will work out.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> BY Mr Ritter
> 
> Two reasons. One is the infidelity and the hurt she caused me. I don't think its something I can ever truly forgive.


*You will not get much better until you address this issue of forgiveness


Forgiveness is freeing no mater which route you take; divorce or reconcile*]


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> She stated at the time, and I believe her still, that she wanted both of us to be free to see other people.


I had a girlfriend who said, when she broke up with me: "I still want us to be friends." She lied about that.

And another girlfriend said our relationship was over and that she had no feelings for me. OK. Well. if that was the case, why did she have a really nasty attack of jealously when I started dating another woman three or four years later?

When people say such things, they might not really mean them.


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> *You will not get much better until you address this issue of forgiveness
> 
> 
> Forgiveness is freeing no mater which route you take; divorce or reconcile*]


Yeah that is something else I have been thinking about a lot. I think one thing I need to work out is exactly what it means to forgive her. I have thought that I need to forgive her so that it doesn't consume me. I think what I mean by saying I cannot forgive her is that I don't want to be in a relationship with her. 

I know I need to forgive her but I don't think I know what that means. Right now, I don't think I ever want to be in a position where I need to trust her. Not just for sleeping with him, but for knowing what hurt it would cause me. She knew what it would do to me, I told her point blank, and she deliberately chose to do it. That is what hurts so much. It wasn't some heat of the moment thing. She was leaving the next day as she is temporarily working far from home, and we watched a movie at home that night, and then she said she was going out to see him and I was just stunned and speechless and I don't know what. So, eff her.

Just when I start to think maybe I have a handle on the hurt and the hatred, I realize I don't.

I am at least to the point where I can somewhat function in day to day life, but am no where near forgiving her, and as much as i know i need to let it go and forgive her for me to move on, its not something I can do right now.

That was a bit longer than I had planned .


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

The reason your hurting so badly is obviously that she wanted the separation so she could eat cake with your permission. Now, big shock, you are growing apart. 

Do the 180. It's designed for your problem.


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

Ovid said:


> The reason your hurting so badly is obviously that she wanted the separation so she could eat cake with your permission. Now, big shock, you are growing apart.
> 
> Do the 180. It's designed for your problem.


We had been growing apart for years, but now we are done growing and are just 'apart'.

I have been going back and forth on the 180, but have decided starting a week or so ago that it is what I need and have been doing it.

Thanks.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Is the difference between forgiveness and acceptance just a semantic one?


I think it's a bit more than just semantics. For example, I can accept that I no longer have a marriage and still be bitter towards my ex wife. This bitterness is unhealthy. Or, I can choose to forgive her for what she did to destroy our family and move on with my life. True forgiveness will be absent of bitterness and will allow for growth.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Quote of MisterRitter
> I know I need to forgive her but I don't think I know what that means



Here is what forgiveness means to me:

First let me l tell you what IT DOES NOT mean
Forgiveness does not mean that you have to have a relationship with her

Forgiveness does not mean that you trust her.

Forgiveness does not mean that you stay married to her

Forgiveness does not mean that her offense will be forgotten

Forgiveness does not mean that the consequences should be erased

Forgiveness does not mean that you have to help her with her problems

Forgiveness is not Justifying, understanding, or explaining why the person acted toward you as he or she did. 

Forgiveness is not just forgetting about the offense and trusting time to take care of it. 

Forgiveness is not Asking God to forgive the person who hurt you. 

Forgiveness is not asking God to forgive you for being angry or resentful against the person who offended you. 
•	Denying that you were really hurt; after all, there are others who have suffered more. 


Forgiveness involves the following:

1 Understand that it is often unwise to forgive face to face. This tends to make the other person feel "put down" and make you look holier-than-thou. 

2 Select a time and place when you can be alone for a season of time. 

3 *Choose by an act of your will to forgive that person once and for all time*. You may not feel like being forgiving. That's all right. Just do it, and the feelings will follow. God will take care of that. Do not doubt what you have done is real and valid.

4	*Release the person from the debt you feel is owed you for the offense*. Say, "You are free and forgiven."

5 If the person is still a part of your life, now is a good time to accept the individual without wanting to change aspects of personality or behavior. 



Forgiveness involves so much but for me the above first steps are what I have been able to come up with so far.


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> Here is what forgiveness means to me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for this post. I agree with everything you said about what forgiveness is not.

I still struggle with what forgiveness is, though.

I do not feel she owes me any debt. I don't want to change any aspect of her behavior. I acknowledge that the only person whose behavior I have, or should have, control over is my own.

I don't believe in God, so just saying some words with the belief that it will happen when I don't even know what I am saying doesn't hold much promise for me.

Apparently, forgiveness is the giving up of anger or resentment about a wrong someone has inflicted on you. I don't want to be angry or have hatred towards her, but I am. And I see that as time goes on, it doesn't affect me as much day to day, but it is still there just below the surface possibly gaining in strength. or maybe the pain and anger is just fading away and one day I will be able to forgive her. I hope so, for my sake, but I can't do that yet.

Thanks again, for all the input. I really do appreciate it.


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## MisterRitter (Sep 1, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> My rhetorical question was meant for you to see that you may never get to forgive her. And that is OK.
> 
> Acceptance to me, is being able to put it behind you. Quite different!
> 
> ...


Hmm. So, you think that I need acceptance to not be consumed by this thing not forgiveness. That's interesting. I think acceptance is definitely possible. I am on that path but the forgiveness thing seems much less likely.

Oh well, more thought is definitely required.

Thanks for the idea.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I had a girlfriend who said, when she broke up with me: "I still want us to be friends." She lied about that.
> 
> And another girlfriend said our relationship was over and that she had no feelings for me. OK. Well. if that was the case, why did she have a really nasty attack of jealously when I started dating another woman three or four years later?
> 
> When people say such things, they might not really mean them.


So true - my ex said she needed space - when I gave it to her and when I stated dating it apears she was the only one who needed space - same as the girl I dated soon afterwards.


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