# Clubbing all the time...



## serpico396 (Apr 24, 2012)

My wife and I have been married for 5 years now. About a year and a half ago, my wife was out with her female friend (she is married with a 4 yr old) and they kissed. Feelings were involved, but they ‘decided’ that it wasn’t a good idea. Fine. Problem is, they still hang out all the time. I don’t mind the shopping once a week and things like that, but it’s the dance clubs 3 out of every 4 weekends (where the original kissing happened, though they say it isn’t happening now). They close out the bars (2:30am here) and then my wife gets home at 4:30 or 5am, saying that she had to ‘sober up’ before driving home. I am 37, she is 35 and there are no kids, and I have been wanting kids for 7 years now (as soon as I met her I knew I wanted kids with her). This behavior of going out all the time has only started in the last couple years. She was not like this when we met and got married. Every time I try to talk to her about it we end up fighting, no matter how I bring it up to her. What should I do? Should I be ok with her going out with someone she cheated on me with (they only kissed, but to me that is cheating)?


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Cheating is what you and she decide is cheating. For us, anything you wouldn't do in front of the other is cheating. 

As far as clubbing? Why do people go clubbing in the first place? To meet others. Drink and hook up. As a married woman, closing bars on the regular is inappropriate. The message she's sending is that she's NOT married or at the very least has an open relationship.

If she doesn't want to talk about it, that's fine. You've probably expressed how concerned you are and it's not like she doesn't know how you feel... her actions are telling you that she doesn't care. Her wants and desires are more important to her than your feelings.

I don't like ultimatums, but it sounds like your wife needs one. Be firm and don't back down. If she doesn't get herself together, be prepared to follow through with the consequences. She's going to continue on with what she's doing because right now the only consequence she has is you getting mad. It's not enough incentive for her to stop.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Someone needs to link him the thread from yesterday about people being married and going clubbing.

Your wife is 35 and acting like a 18-23 year old single woman. Clubbing 3-4 times a week? That is ridiculous. Does she not have a job or responsibilites? 

Why do you tolerate this? Why do you accept it. Time for hard consequences.

"Wife, when you hit the club circuit several times a week coming up at 4-5 a.m., it makes me feel like you don't respect our marriage or me. This is the behavior of a single woman. I do not want to be in a marriage where this is the norm or behavior that is a constant and will consider ending our relationship."

Kapiche.

And what exactly do you think she's doing at 4 and 5 a.m., dear? She's not singing karaoke, I can tell you that much. 

I can't imagine being out that late several times a week. That is pure insanity.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> And what exactly do you think she's doing at 4 and 5 a.m., dear? She's not singing karaoke, I can tell you that much.


The only things open that late are some legs.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Are you sure only a female friend is involved? How about a few random males each "clubbing" day?


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Found it. And eventhough it talks about the "opposite sex"--it's completely applicable:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...n/44611-club-dancing-random-opposite-sex.html


----------



## serpico396 (Apr 24, 2012)

First off, it's not 3 or 4 times a week. It's 3 out of every 4 weekends, which is bad enough. If it was 3 or 4 nights a week, she would have been gone long ago. I've been out with her and her friend a few times and it's innocent enough. She enjoys dancing. My wife does the driving and she has to go pick up her friend which is a 40 minute drive from our house, then go downtown to the clubs (another 20 minute drive) then take her friend back home before she heads home. If the clubs close at 2:30, she should be home at 3:30 or 4am. She says she gets home at 5ish because she wants to make sure she's sober to drive home. That I get. I actually have more trouble trusting her with this particular female friend than with the guys at the club. I know she won't do anything with them.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Why not follow her one night. See if she ends up going somewhere else.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

serpico396 said:


> First off, it's not 3 or 4 times a week. It's 3 out of every 4 weekends, which is bad enough. If it was 3 or 4 nights a week, she would have been gone long ago. I've been out with her and her friend a few times and it's innocent enough. She enjoys dancing. My wife does the driving and she has to go pick up her friend which is a 40 minute drive from our house, then go downtown to the clubs (another 20 minute drive) then take her friend back home before she heads home. If the clubs close at 2:30, she should be home at 3:30 or 4am. She says she gets home at 5ish because she wants to make sure she's sober to drive home. That I get. I actually have more trouble trusting her with this particular female friend than with the guys at the club. I know she won't do anything with them.


So are you excusing her behavior here? It sure sounds like it.

If you truly have a problem with what she's doing then do something about it.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

And for the record, depending on how much she drank, 2 hours really isn't enough time to sober up. Alcohol metabolizes a lot slower in women. She's going to need at least 6 or 7 hours minimum.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

serpico396 said:


> First off, it's not 3 or 4 times a week. It's 3 out of every 4 weekends, which is bad enough..



I see that I misread what you wrote. Got it. 

3 out of every 4 weekends is still bad. That means she parties more than she's at home with you. 

How old is this friend of hers?



serpico396 said:


> I actually have more trouble trusting her with this particular female friend than with the guys at the club. *I know she won't do anything with them*.


You don't know that.

Anyway, the bottom line is you need to state some boundaries to her and follow through with consequences. If not, you can expect more of the same.


----------



## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

I'm thinking it takes longer than a 1/2 hour to sober up. At least it always did for me. Not sure what the actual statistics are on this...but I'm willing to bet she's out there drunk driving as well.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Serpico,

Her behavior is suspect at least. She likes to dance. Why can't you go with her?

Also, if her "friend" was a guy and she kissed him, would you still be OK with that? It's still cheating and they may still be experimenting!

Fortunately, there are no kids in this slow motion train wreck. You need to find out where she's going and with whom. I'd recommend a Voice Activated Recorder in her car (attach it under the seat using heavy duty velcro) I'd also get a GPS unit to put in her car and that way you won't have to follow her around. You can view the GPS and see if her story and times match up.

Put a keylogger on your computer too. It will help find any secret email accounts (if there are any) that she could be using to communicate with this "friend" or anyone else.

Your gut is telling you something for a reason. Follow it for now. Do not tell her you're doing these things


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh yeah...and whatever you do, do not get her pregnant until this is resolved. Because she doesn't exactly sound like she'd be Mother of the Year.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Why are you not out with your wife and her friend when they dance? You don't have to dance that much, but at least be spending time with your wife. Why is it only your wife and her friend?


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sir. You are in denial about what she's up to. She's not dancing up right all those nights. What she is doing is dating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

You need to have her followed. Since you have no problem letting her tramp around at meat markets 3-4 times a month, you obviously have no idea how she acts when she's out. I can guarantee you it will be an education.

Guarantee.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Sir. You are in denial about what she's up to. She's not dancing up right all those nights. What she is doing is dating.


"Dating" is a nicer way of putting what I was thinking.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> The only things open that late are some legs.


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

Indeed.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

serpico396 said:


> First off, it's not 3 or 4 times a week. It's 3 out of every 4 weekends, which is bad enough. If it was 3 or 4 nights a week, she would have been gone long ago. I've been out with her and her friend a few times and it's innocent enough. She enjoys dancing. My wife does the driving and she has to go pick up her friend which is a 40 minute drive from our house, then go downtown to the clubs (another 20 minute drive) then take her friend back home before she heads home. If the clubs close at 2:30, she should be home at 3:30 or 4am. She says she gets home at 5ish because she wants to make sure she's sober to drive home. That I get. I actually have more trouble trusting her with this particular female friend than with the guys at the club. I know she won't do anything with them.


LOL. Well yeah 3 of 4 weekends would be less than 3 or 4 nights a week. But really. Why is she spending her weekends without you?

She likes to dance. Right. Don't we all. Ever dance with the devil by the pale moonlight?

Why don't you go along. But that said, you marry a party girl you may end up with a party wife.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> She likes to dance. Right. Don't we all. Ever dance with the devil by the pale moonlight?
> .


That's the best way to dance! Just not if you're married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

This reminds me of the movie Basic Instinct for some reason .....


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If you want it to stop then simply tell her you do not want to control her and she can do what she wants. Let her know you are looking for something different in a marriage and even though you love her you are not feeling the same degree of love from her.

Screw the issue here about GNO, does it really matter, the point is #1 she has lack of boundries, #2 you are not her priority.

Going back to confronting her;

not controlling......ya....She can make her own choice for whats best in a healthy marriage, but you now what it takes and what you want, and she's not cutting it and it would be best that she leaves if she does so choose to continue with deteriorating this marriage.

Again its her choice to continue, just like it your choice to not tolorate it by asking her to leave and moving on with out her.



Of course you wont do this b/c your affraid of losing her.....dude she is already on her way out, she keeps you around for the stabilty you offer her. She has your number, you aint going anywhere. 

Sorry man but thats just how I see it.....I know it and she knows it, thats why she continues!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

DUde. Stand up for yourself! This is ridiculous! This is not the may a married couple behaves and her cavorting with a woman she had "feelings" for would also not be acceptable. I can't understand why you would put up with this.


----------



## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

Just based on the description in the first post, I would say yes they are still sleeping together. IMO, let it slide. Forcing a man or woman to pick between their friends vs their lover always ends bad. You know the sayings: chicks before d!icks and bros before hoes. If she's forced to pick one and she picks you, then that sets the standard that you can make the same demand in the future with someone else. It would be in her own best interest to choose her friend over you if you are the one forcing that decision. 
Negotiation = good
Ultimatum = you will be dumped 



A Bit Much said:


> As far as clubbing? Why do people go clubbing in the first place? To meet others. Drink and hook up.


Only men do that. Women actually go to the club to dance. I've gone with my gf and her friends before and we all leave together every time. Random men would come dance with the group but they would get pushed away if they got too close. I was bored to tears the first few times so I just stopped going. I would still pick them up and drive them home because that's what a decent person does and all of them were still together at the end of the night.
I guess it's some unwritten rule that you're not supposed to go home with a guy. Exchanging phone numbers then meeting sober the next day seems pretty standard. Maybe I just hang out with the lame people who don't sleep with people they met an hour ago.




> I'm thinking it takes longer than a 1/2 hour to sober up. At least it always did for me. Not sure what the actual statistics are on this...but I'm willing to bet she's out there drunk driving as well.


One thing a lot of people don't understand is that alcohol's metabolism is very unique. For a drug like caffeine or cocaine or meth or whatever, the drug has exponential decrease and it's measured as a half life in hours. Say you start with 10 units of caffeine and the half life is 5 hours. After 5 hours, you have 5 units of caffeine still in you. After another 5 hours, you still have 2.5 units of caffeine in you. After another 5 hours, you still have 1.25 units of caffeine in you. Having more of the drug in you means it gets flushed out faster. 
*ALCOHOL DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT*
Alcohol does not metabolise exponentially. It's linear. Rule of thumb is 1 beer per hour. It doesn't matter if you drank 1 beer or 5 beers or 10 beers. You still only process 1 beer per hour. You can still be totally drunk as heck after 5 hours of sobering up. This is why so many people can get nailed with drunk driving in the morning.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

serpico396 said:


> Should I be ok with her going out with someone she cheated on me with (they only kissed, but to me that is cheating)?


 No, you should not be OK with her going out with the person that she cheated on you with. Your wife is bi so you should treat the other women the same way that you would have treated another man that had kissed your wife. As of now your wife is dating this other woman. That being said, just because she has admitted to kissing does not mean that she did not do more. All cheaters lie and never admit to the full truth about what then did. If she said kissing it probably meant they had oral sex. Regardless, demand full no contact with this OW.

Also, going to clubs to dance with others is what single people do to hook up with others. Unless your wife is a serious Dancing with the Stars style dancer she has no business as a married woman going to these clubs without you. Regardless of if it is with this women or not, you must put your foot down and let her know that clubbing without you is outside the boundaries of your marraige and must stop.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

OP. I'd like to ask you one question. And please answer it honestly.

What are you thinking as she's heading out to these meat markets? 

You know, while she's getting pretty for them. Then you have to sit home alone, wondering what she's doing. I do NOT want to imply the pain of uncovering a year long affair is anything less than devastating. But you know what? In that situation, the deceived husband may have been happy that year. He had no clue. Ignorance is bliss. Imagine what it must be like to be forced to watch her get ready for her dates. Wonder what the hell she's doing while she's out. Hearing nothing about it when she gets home. And one way or another every one of these nights out are a date. Maybe with the friend, maybe with the boys she parties with. But she's having fun, thanks to you letting her.

Hit the search button (while signed in). Search "clubbing", nightclub, wingman, wingwoman. Put "went out dancing" in parentheses. You can go to other forums and do the same, it's just a little harder when not logged in. After you're done searching relationship sites, go to dating sites and do the same. Add "bought me a drink", "buy me drinks", and one of my favorites, "get drunk for free". After about an hour of reading (in amazement as to what can go on in these places) you will find out that the chances of anyone's wife going clubbing 3 times a month and NOT having done anything inappropriate are pretty small. And of the smaller (yet surely still pretty large) percentage that have done something REALLY inappropriate, I will bet my fortune that your wife's behavior: before, during and after, statistically skew HEAVILY towards the "party" side of the spectrum. Yes, some girls do just go to dance with each other in a man-free circle. But not the ones that do it from 8:00 - 5:00 the next morning just about every weekend. And with someone she made-out with. Damn dude.

I would strongly recommend you back off. Let her get comfortable then hire a PI and have her followed. Cell ph. video. I can GUARANTEE she has not told you the half of what she's done while out. If you accuse her simply based on the grounds that she's going out without you, you lose forever. Video of her grinding her crotch against some Guido (chav?) while sucking his nipple will change the entire dynamic of that conversation. (And because it is a possibility, and it's my post, I'm going to throw out the possibility that she's grinding her crotch against some hot chick's inner thigh while sucking HER nipple. Fairness). Want to go a little cheaper at first? VAR in her car will get their conversation on the way to the meat market. THAT would be enlightening also. Probably more so. And cheaper. I like it.

You've got it bad, man. You're getting cheated on as badly as anyone in the infidelity section and you WILL be accused of being just a paranoid Neanderthal for having a problem with her freedom. The assault (against me, anyhow), will probably happen before this thread leaves this page. One of the next posters. 

Oh, and another thing, she will NEVER tell you about these nights, what went on. NEVER. Anything you get on tape or video will be the ONLY time it was done or was said. Then it'll be your fault. Different type of Infidelity, same script.

Good luck


----------



## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

[Only men do that. Women actually go to the club to dance].

WRONG,maybe you but don't generalizes because there are plenty of women and men that go out to hook up.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

ShawnD said:


> Just based on the description in the first post, I would say yes they are still sleeping together. IMO, let it slide.


Say whaaat?

If his wife is sleeping with someone else, "letting it slide" is the very last thing he should be doing.

Horrible advice.

No offense.


----------



## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

serpico396 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 5 years now. About a year and a half ago, my wife was out with her female friend (she is married with a 4 yr old) and they kissed. Feelings were involved, but they ‘decided’ that it wasn’t a good idea. Fine. Problem is, they still hang out all the time. I don’t mind the shopping once a week and things like that, but it’s the dance clubs 3 out of every 4 weekends (where the original kissing happened, though they say it isn’t happening now). They close out the bars (2:30am here) and then my wife gets home at 4:30 or 5am, saying that she had to ‘sober up’ before driving home. I am 37, she is 35 and there are no kids, and I have been wanting kids for 7 years now (as soon as I met her I knew I wanted kids with her). This behavior of going out all the time has only started in the last couple years. She was not like this when we met and got married. Every time I try to talk to her about it we end up fighting, no matter how I bring it up to her. What should I do? Should I be ok with her going out with someone she cheated on me with (they only kissed, but to me that is cheating)?


Surely she does sound like an irresponsible wife to be honest.
She should listen more to your concerns and kissing and making out with her female friend?

Damn that's unnacceptable!!! If she gets out of control when she goes out then she's not someone trustful. She's got issues.


----------



## Valley (Apr 24, 2012)

To me if you are married you have no business clubbing without your spouse. That is just asking for trouble. Who honestly goes clubbing when your in a committed relationship?


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

...3 out of 4 weekends of the month.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

dubbizle said:


> [Only men do that. Women actually go to the club to dance].
> 
> WRONG,maybe you but don't generalizes because there are plenty of women and men that go out to hook up.


You are correct. but he mentions they may not hookup at the club but are very open to exchanging contact information and meeting the next day sober.

Both are really bad. No? But I guess this is way of making new friends ... LOL.


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

serpico396 said:


> I actually have more trouble trusting her with this particular female friend than with the guys at the club. I know she won't do anything with them.


You don't know that, many people like myself wouldn't think in a million years their spouse would cheat and many times (again, like myself) it was the last person they suspected. What she is doing is inappropriate and tempting fate. 

All this sounds like bad news bears. You want a kid and be a grownup and she wants to keep partying.

Maybe its time to re-think your situation and find someone with the same goals as you (after a D of course). It doesn't sound like you 2 are on the same page and most likely won't ever be.

Sounds drastic but only you know if you are wasting your time being with someone like this, a time-bomb for infidelity.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

So, did she go out this weekend? Did you spy on her?


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Unless you own it, there's no reason for a 35 year old to be at a club, I dont care how much "they like to dance."


----------



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Just read the first page and was shocked no one dropped the bomb on you about this.

First, clubbing 3-4 times a month to close is bad mojo period. That discussion has been done to death, and I fully support that going solo to any bar or club, especially to close, is a bad idea.

Second, and this is what you should have a way bigger problem with, she cheated on you with someone else and she still hangs out with that person. On top of that, she's putting herself in a compromising position regularly with that person.

Would you be cool if she went clubbing with a dude she kissed 3-4 times a month? How is this any different?

You dealt with her infidelity poorly if you still allow her to contact this person. Once the boundary is crossed, it is extremely easy to cross again. All it takes is one awkward moment of lowered inhibitions (which she's getting into all the time), and full blown cheating happens. There is a really good chance this is already happening.

This is why any form of cheating needs to be dealt with seriously. Specifically, NC with the other person.

I'm wondering why you are OK with this on any level. Wives leave their husbands for women all the time, you are not "safe". Grow a pair and stop accepting that she craps all over you. Every time she talks to this woman is a slap in your face that you accept.

So to answer your question, is it ok that she talks to someone that she cheated on you with (and yes kissing is cheating), HELL NO!!!


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

serpico396 said:


> First off, it's not 3 or 4 times a week. It's 3 out of every 4 weekends, which is bad enough. If it was 3 or 4 nights a week, she would have been gone long ago. I've been out with her and her friend a few times and it's innocent enough. She enjoys dancing. My wife does the driving and she has to go pick up her friend which is a 40 minute drive from our house, then go downtown to the clubs (another 20 minute drive) then take her friend back home before she heads home. If the clubs close at 2:30, she should be home at 3:30 or 4am. She says she gets home at 5ish because she wants to make sure she's sober to drive home. That I get. I actually have more trouble trusting her with this particular female friend than with the guys at the club. I know she won't do anything with them.


Your naivety is terrifying.

Stop this madness.

Your wife shouldn`t be out clubbing half the month getting home at 5AM

Draw some boundaries and put your foot down.


----------



## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

serpico396 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 5 years now. About a year and a half ago, my wife was out with her female friend (she is married with a 4 yr old) and they kissed. Feelings were involved, but they ‘decided’ that it wasn’t a good idea. Fine. Problem is, they still hang out all the time. I don’t mind the shopping once a week and things like that, but it’s the dance clubs 3 out of every 4 weekends (where the original kissing happened, though they say it isn't happening now). They close out the bars (2:30am here) and then my wife gets home at 4:30 or 5am, saying that she had to ‘sober up’ before driving home. I am 37, she is 35 and there are no kids, and I have been wanting kids for 7 years now (as soon as I met her I knew I wanted kids with her). This behavior of going out all the time has only started in the last couple years. She was not like this when we met and got married. Every time I try to talk to her about it we end up fighting, no matter how I bring it up to her. What should I do? Should I be ok with her going out with someone she cheated on me with (they only kissed, but to me that is cheating)?


Brother, what is a 35 year old married woman doing hitting a club and coming home to you @ 4:00 AM? You are 37 and trust me, having kids later in life does not get easier. Stop wasting your precious life. Yes you chose poorly with this woman. More than likely she will keep doing it and end up in a bar as a "cougar" hunting young men. When I was younger and bar hopping these cougars were plan B, C, D and F. 

Do yourself a favor and file for divorce. She is not going to change. She is not marriage material let alone mother material. Dump swiftly and decisively and make sure to get a good lawyer so she doesn't take your life savings with her. 

Let her live the single life. By the time she gets this lifestyle out of her system she will be an old hag with a drinking problem. Move on and find yourself a real wife and mother to your future offspring. Good luck buddy!


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I have never hooked up with anyone at a bar or club. That was my mom's only rule to dating and I listened :rofl:

But in marriage, I think it's a huge red flag if a spouse wants to go clubbing almost every weekend...if at all.


----------

