# How to leave my wife?



## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

I've been going back and forth with if I should stay with my wife or not. We've had a lot of issues in the past few years and I truly feel she is only a mother and no longer a wife. We haven't gone out on a date in almost 2 years now, we haven't had sex in 3 months and it's only been a few times this entire year. I made a pro and cons list about the good and bad about our relationship and it was nearly one sided. I think I just don't love her anymore and it's time to move on. 

The difficult part is that she is recovering from Lyme Disease. She's prob 80% better than she has been all summer. We are getting specialized care outside of our insurance so she gets the best care possible. This will not change no matter what. My business is also going thru a major transition over the next month so I can't move out until that is done. 

My thought is to start planning the moving out for mid October and get everything lined up with a new place to live etc. my concern is leaving her if she is still sick. I do still truly care for her but I just decided I can't live the rest of my life with her if I'm beyond unhappy. This has nothing to do with her being sick this has to do with something I've been struggling with for years 

She's unwilling to change or put in any more effort and she refuses to go to councelling. I just can't do this to myself. How should I approach this with her and what can I expect? In a perfect world she will be fully recovered from Lyme when I leave but that may not be the case. Should I plan on sticking around until she is full cured and then find a place to live?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vel (Aug 27, 2016)

If this is an otherwise normal relationship free of abuse, I would tell her your thoughts as soon as possible so she can start emotionally preparing to leave (as you've done all this time). Simply dropping the bomb on her last minute won't be very good.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)




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## Richle (Sep 1, 2016)

I believe in that every person deserves happiness, but also I know that we are people who so much scared of any difficulties. Ask yourself, if you stopped loving your wife when she got sick? Sometimes our mind blocks any feelings because it is such kind of protection from hurt. But in any case honest is important. Talk with her, and ask about her feelings also.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Imagine if you had Lyme Disease and your wife wanted to leave you.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think everyone should read his other active thread.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Lyme affects people differently, but I have chronic Lyme and the symptoms come and go depending on the time of year, stress levels, sleeping patterns, etc. It does not always just go away with the antibiotic treatment. It can however become manageable. 

There are no magic answers to your questions. They're all based on your best decision. You know your wife better than us. There's no point really in wearing kid gloves but you can absolutely amicably part ways if you stay level headed. 

My opinion, best to be honest and declare you are tired of a non-marriage and not having your needs met. You don't fancy a roommate so you've decided to move on. You wish her the best. 

Your other posts are just leading to what you seem unable to do, which is drop the other shoe already.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

In your other thread, just a day or so ago you said you weren't going to leave because you did truly love your W. You seem very confused. Maybe you should take some time to sort that out first.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

There has been a lot going on. My father is really sick and has been in the hospital for 10 days now. My wife hasn't made any effort to help with anything nor go visit him. He had some major complications yesterday and I had to rush home from our weekend away to help him. Nothing from her. He moved closer to us 2 years ago and she's only been there once. 

My brother recently went thru a divorce and his girlfriend has been to see my dad every single day. We had a long talk last night about what is going on with my wife. She suggested going on a double date so I asked my wife and she refused. I understand she is sick but she is still alive and is more than capable of going out to dinner

My brother left his wife because she always said no to everything. He could only have two toys at any given time. Who comes up with this crap? I need someone that I can experience life with not someone that I go about my life and when I come home I get to listen to her complain about everything. I'm 40 years old and feel like I'm married to an 80 year old. My wife has an excuse for everything and often says we are not in our twenties anymore. I don't know about you but I was unaware that life stops after 20
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> There has been a lot going on. My father is really sick and has been in the hospital for 10 days now. My wife hasn't made any effort to help with anything nor go visit him. He had some major complications yesterday and I had to rush home from our weekend away to help him. Nothing from her. He moved closer to us 2 years ago and she's only been there once.


What exactly is wrong with your dad, that landed him in the hospital? I do agree it's odd not to go to his place more than once in two years. That part, I cannot imagine. 

However, considering her recovery from Lyme disease, it is understandable why she has not gone to the hospital to see him. There is more to consider here than *just* the Lyme Disease. Even a common cold can knock her back down... faster than it would you or me. Now, imagine going somewhere with various concentrated contagious illnesses. I understand *that* part.

What kind of help were you wanting from her? Anytime my parents have been ill, in the hospital, and even when my mom passed away, our husbands were not the ones who handled calls and other things. We girls did. And when it comes to my mother-in-law, my husband deals with all of her things. So, I am genuinely curious what you are wanting her to handle. 



> My brother recently went thru a divorce and his girlfriend has been to see my dad every single day. We had a long talk last night about what is going on with my wife. She suggested going on a double date so I asked my wife and she refused. I understand she is sick but she is still alive and is more than capable of going out to dinner.


Did you also mention to your brother's girlfriend that you are wanting your wife to get dolled up when you go out... so she looks good to you? You don't know that she is "more than capable of going out to dinner." You are not her. You have no idea how she is feeling, physically, from one day to the next. And, she may have refused because of how you have presented such things in the past. Did she say why she refused?



> My brother left his wife because she always said no to everything. He could only have two toys at any given time. Who comes up with this crap? I need someone that I can experience life with not someone that I go about my life and when I come home I get to listen to her complain about everything. I'm 40 years old and feel like I'm married to an 80 year old. My wife has an excuse for everything and often says we are not in our twenties anymore. I don't know about you but I was unaware that life stops after 20
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree that your ex-sister-in-law had odd rules, but there may have been a reason for that rule... even if you were unaware of it. If my husband made a habit of trying to buy a lot of things, just to have them, I would likely enact a similar rule. But, you only have your brother's side of the story, not hers, and the whole truth is somewhere in the middle. 


You and your wife are definitely incompatible. You want to go out and show off. She doesn't. That is at the root of your incompatibility. It very well may be best for you to separate. As was stated in your other thread... divorce her. But you need to be open and honest with her about why you are divorcing


*Just a note... you mentioned in your OP that it has been 3 months since you last had sex. I understand the frustration, but you really should have included that the REASON for the lack of sex these last three months is due to her illness (Lyme Disease). You appeared to mention it in passing, as of that little bit of information is insignificant.

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

As for mentioning to my brothers girlfriend about my desire to have my wife wear makeup etc she agreed with ME 1000000%. She said as a woman it is her job to look good for her man. No questions asked. She said a woman should wear makeup when she goes out with her man because that's how she makes him feel special. she said my wife should suck it up throw on some heels and get made up and we need to go out. The fact that we haven't gone out on a date in 2 years is crazy and she said she and my brother will go on dates several times per week not every couple of YEARS. 

She suggested going on a double date and she would basically pick my wife up get her dressed and do her makeup and I would go with my brother and we would meet up at a restaurant. I told her my wife would refuse to go on the date and when I came back to camp I asked her and she did EXACTLY as I said and refused to go on a date.

The reality is my wife no longer wants to experience life and that's fine for her. When we first got married she was awesome. She loved doing things together and going snowmobiling, car shows, shooting, going to martial arts events etc and ever since all she wants to do is watch TV.

I refuse to live the rest of my life like this and I've been going back and forth with this for 2 years now. Has the Lyme complicated things? Sure it has and maybe it's the catalyst to what I'm deciding to do but at the end of the day we just don't want the same things in life. I want to be able to afford a Ferrari and it's in my 5 year plan. She tells me I will never get one no matter what. She wants to kill my ambition and that's not cool. She won't support me in anything.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Well, maybe you should give her a chance to try. Tell her you want to leave. Give her time to change. If you're sitting here and complaining about things to her, and not telling her you are at the end...that you have a plan to leave...then she can't possibly begin to understand where you are at right now. 

Wife, 

I have made a plan to see an attorney and move out by October. I absolutely cannot continue to live this way. I have certain expectations in my life. Some of those expectations are (xyz)...I feel as though you don't even care anymore and I cannot live my life this way. I want to experience life with you. I want to go out and remember why we fell in love. However, this is not happening, and unfortunately, I have started to plan my exit of this marriage. 


If you have not explained to your W that you are on the brink of divorce...then you have not given her the opportunity to change some things. I get that things have been bad for a while. I do. However, people will *SAY* they are telling their spouse what they want...when they are really just giving little hints that they *THINK* their spouse should pick up on. 

Be honest. Be straight forward. Be real. Tell her you want to leave if she can't attempt to participate in the marriage. Tell her you are looking for a place to move. Tell her when you're planning. 

I bet, 1000% she doesn't know you are ready for divorce and she doesn't think things are that bad. Probably because you're complaining to your brother's girlfriend instead of telling your W SPECIFICALLY what you want or you will have to end the marriage. 

I am probably wasting my time, though. Much easier to give up and move on - I suppose.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Well, let's be honest... Not everyone is cut up to be a care giver. I have read several of your posts since you came here. You are miserable in your marriage. You have been very unhappy for a while now. Then 3 months ago or so another huge stressor comes into the mix: your wife's very serious illness. 

It is very serious. It's life changing for everyone involved. You were not even close to being all in in your marriage before this huge curveball Came into the mix. Things will not get better for you, they WILL get worse!

I, like others, suggest your need to have another very honest talk with your wife and tell her your marriage is over. It has been over for quite some time. You are just prolonging the inevitable. I know it's hard to be the bad guy because that is how this is, more than likely, going to pan out.

Be prepared for that and take care of your relationship with your son.

You deserve happiness and so does she. Sadly, neither one of you are happy in you marriage. Pull the plug.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Have you two communicated your unhappiness with the marriage and talked about getting counseling? You owe it to yourself, her, and the marriage to do that first. If that doesn't work then so be it. If you leave, do it honorably. Be up front about your intentions and don't drop any bombs on her.

The fact that you're already getting ducks in a row to leave on the down low is uncool. You owe the person you took vows with more respect than that.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

LucasJackson said:


> Have you two communicated your unhappiness with the marriage and talked about getting counseling? You owe it to yourself, her, and the marriage to do that first. If that doesn't work then so be it. If you leave, do it honorably. Be up front about your intentions and don't drop any bombs on her.
> 
> The fact that you're already getting ducks in a row to leave on the down low is uncool. You owe the person you took vows with more respect than that.


I've tried for over 2 years to get my wife to go to counseling. She REFUSED to go NO MATTER WHAT. I ended up going last year for several months BY MYSELF. Then, any advice I would get and try to apply in our relationship I would get the "is this what your crazy doctor told you to do?" 

As for being up front I've told my wife more than once that we are at the breaking point in our marriage if things don't change. The response I get in return is "this is who I am and I try my best to make things good." She knows things suck and she knows how unhappy I've been with her. She honestly doesn't care.

As for waiting to tell her we are done yes it is selfish but if I tell her then she will force me out of the house. Until all the changes are done with my business I can't find another place to live unless I move in with my father and I'm not prepared for that.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

As for what's wrong with my dad he has C.O.P.D. which is a NASTY disease. He's had major complications which is why he was admitted into the hospital. I can see that she doesn't want to visit him in the hospital with her immune system being run down but he moved out near us nearly 2 years ago and she's only been to his house 1 time in those two years. My brothers girlfriend is over there 4+ times each week helping with cleaning, groceries, cooking, etc etc etc. My wife hasn't done ANYTHING to help him in all this time and we only live 10 minutes from him. She lives about 20 minutes away.

I mentioned to her just now about helping with my dad and she said it's not her responsbility and she has other things to take care of. I think it just boils down to that she's a selfish person and only really cares about her needs. This goes beyond the Lyme Disease and maybe the Lyme Disease is the straw that breaks the camels back.

There really isn't anything I'm excited about in this marriage and these is nothing I look forward to with it. I don't think our sex life will ever improve esp. now that no sex is the new norm. Before she was sick the past year has pretty much been a total dry spell and cause for fights nearly on a daily basis. Getting back to the campground this morning after rushing home last night to take care of my dad and she doesn't even ask how he's doing and all she's done since I've gotten back is complain complain complain.

I've done what I think has been the right thing and done everything possible (in my eyes) to make things better but there hasn't been any improvement in the past several years. It's time to move on and selfishly I will have to wait another month or so before I can even say anything about it. If she can be selfish then so can't I.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

When2Leave said:


> I've tried for over 2 years to get my wife to go to counseling. She REFUSED to go NO MATTER WHAT. I ended up going last year for several months BY MYSELF. Then, any advice I would get and try to apply in our relationship I would get the "is this what your crazy doctor told you to do?"
> 
> As for being up front I've told my wife more than once that we are at the breaking point in our marriage if things don't change. The response I get in return is "this is who I am and I try my best to make things good." She knows things suck and she knows how unhappy I've been with her. She honestly doesn't care.
> 
> As for waiting to tell her we are done yes it is selfish but if I tell her then she will force me out of the house. Until all the changes are done with my business I can't find another place to live unless I move in with my father and I'm not prepared for that.


Good plan. When she is better and the business transition is done, find a new place to live then move out. 

You have already checked out of the marriage. 

Everything else you post is just trying to convince yourself you made the right move. 

The only thing to consider is whether you want a physical separation with attempt to reconcile or just go straight to divorce.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

When2Leave said:


> I've tried for over 2 years to get my wife to go to counseling. She REFUSED to go NO MATTER WHAT. I ended up going last year for several months BY MYSELF. Then, any advice I would get and try to apply in our relationship I would get the "is this what your crazy doctor told you to do?"
> 
> As for being up front I've told my wife more than once that we are at the breaking point in our marriage if things don't change. The response I get in return is "this is who I am and I try my best to make things good." She knows things suck and she knows how unhappy I've been with her. She honestly doesn't care.
> 
> As for waiting to tell her we are done yes it is selfish but if I tell her then she will force me out of the house. Until all the changes are done with my business I can't find another place to live unless I move in with my father and I'm not prepared for that.


It sounds like you've been up front about it and it also sounds like she doesn't care. I'd say to document your exit strategy so that you don't leave any holes in it and then execute it. That strategy should include the finances, assets, a roof over your head, if there are kids what's to be done about them, and a timeline for everything.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> As for mentioning to my brothers girlfriend about my desire to have my wife wear makeup etc she agreed with ME 1000000%. She said as a woman it is her job to look good for her man. No questions asked. She said a woman should wear makeup when she goes out with her man because that's how she makes him feel special. she said my wife should suck it up throw on some heels and get made up and we need to go out. The fact that we haven't gone out on a date in 2 years is crazy and she said she and my brother will go on dates several times per week not every couple of YEARS.
> 
> She suggested going on a double date and she would basically pick my wife up get her dressed and do her makeup and I would go with my brother and we would meet up at a restaurant. I told her my wife would refuse to go on the date and when I came back to camp I asked her and she did EXACTLY as I said and refused to go on a date.
> 
> ...


No surprise that I disagree with his girlfriend about what your wife should and should not do as far as the makeup and heels are concerned (specific things you listed in the above description). And, I disagree that she should "suck it up". If getting dolled up makes her obviously uncomfortable, why would you even suggest doing it? How could you even consider doing that, knowing she would be uncomfortable the whole time, and tell her to "suck it up because it makes [you] happy"? Are you TRYING to push her further away? If so, that is the perfect way to do it... and increase any resentment she may already feel toward you.

I think it's been 6 or 7 years since my husband and I have actually *gone out* on a date. We do, however, spend a lot of time together, alone... and that is far more important *for us* than dressing up and going out.

As for the rest, if you choose to divorce, then do it. Just make sure she knows the true reasons behind this decision. Really, though, she may be relieved when you tell her. 

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Good plan. When she is better and the business transition is done, find a new place to live then move out.
> 
> You have already checked out of the marriage.
> 
> ...


If I decide to move out I don't want to reconcile. I def. have checked myself out and I don't need to be ashamed of that. Most everything else in my life has been great with the exception of my marriage.

My business is doing so well and I get to help so many people better their lives with it. I'm able to afford things I've always dreamed of and I have more freedom than I've had before because I only have to work about 15 hours per week.

I want to be happy and there are certain things in a relationship I need in order to be happy. They may not mean anything to someone else but to me they are important. I shouldn't have to go without those things if I choose not to.

As I write this my wife texts me from the other room that she loves me. This is the crap that F's with my head. If she loved me then she would be willing to be a wife.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> As for what's wrong with my dad he has C.O.P.D. which is a NASTY disease. He's had major complications which is why he was admitted into the hospital. I can see that she doesn't want to visit him in the hospital with her immune system being run down but he moved out near us nearly 2 years ago and she's only been to his house 1 time in those two years. My brothers girlfriend is over there 4+ times each week helping with cleaning, groceries, cooking, etc etc etc. My wife hasn't done ANYTHING to help him in all this time and we only live 10 minutes from him. She lives about 20 minutes away.
> 
> I mentioned to her just now about helping with my dad and she said it's not her responsbility and she has other things to take care of. I think it just boils down to that she's a selfish person and only really cares about her needs. This goes beyond the Lyme Disease and maybe the Lyme Disease is the straw that breaks the camels back.
> 
> ...


Regarding your dad, I agree. Very weird to not at least go check up on him... even if it is once a week. I assume she never calls, either? That is totally different from the hospital/avoid illness part I was suggesting. COPD is not contagious. Had his illness been something like pneumonia or similar, I could understand her reticence in going to see him at the hospital. 

You said you both are around 40 years of age? Ok, I know *many* women have experienced a ramped up sex drive at our age (41), but not all. Her not going to the doctor DOES throw a monkey wrench into this, but she could be going through the change. The only way she would learn, for certain, what is going on with her drive is if she would go to the doctor. But I don't see that happening. There could be a LOT going on with her but she is scared to find out. Do I think she should "hold you hostage"? Not at all. I think she SHOULD get to the doctor, ASAP, but you can't force her to do it. You CAN, however, tell her how all of this is affecting YOU, and if she asks what she can do... tell her to get these things checked out. If she refuses... you have your answer.

Also, did you suggest maybe your brother and his girlfriend watching your son for the evening, so you can take your wife to dinner? I ask because I saw mention of a double date... but nothing about an offer to take your son so you can have some time alone. What about you and her going to a favorite restaurant and just tell her to dress nicely? Don't make restrictions on how she HAS to dress, just tell her to look nice, appropriate attire for whatever restaurant you choose. Just a couple hours for dinner with no expectations afterward. If she declines this, then you tell her how you are feeling and that something has to change or you guys are not going to make it. 

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

You say no surprise about disagreeing with my brothers girlfriends opinion. That said, I've never seen my brother happier. She goes out of her way to make him happy and make him appreciate her. She does this and he recriprocates in other ways and they both are ultra-happy. It is a one hand washes the other.

As for my wife being uncomfortable that is not the case. I think she is just lazy to be totally honest and just doesn't give a crap about how she looks. She puts zero effort into anything she does lately no matter what it is.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Maricha75 said:


> I think it's been 6 or 7 years since my husband and I have actually *gone out* on a date. We do, however, spend a lot of time together, alone... and that is far more important *for us* than dressing up and going out.
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk



This is where we are completely different. For YOU it's ok to go 6 or 7 years without going out. For me that is INSANE. I can't even fathom that for a minute and to think that's normal. Yet, at the same time you criticize me because I want my wife to wear makeup. Going 6-7 years without going out on a date is more damaging to a relationship than wanting my wife to wear lipstick a few hours per year.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> You say no surprise about disagreeing with my brothers girlfriends opinion. That said, I've never seen my brother happier. She goes out of her way to make him happy and make him appreciate her. She does this and he recriprocates in other ways and they both are ultra-happy. It is a one hand washes the other.
> 
> As for my wife being uncomfortable that is not the case. I think she is just lazy to be totally honest and just doesn't give a crap about how she looks. She puts zero effort into anything she does lately no matter what it is.


Oh, I have no doubt that your brother and his girlfriend are happy. They are on the same page as far as their relationship. Unfortunately, you and your wife are not.

The reason I suggested what I did about her being uncomfortable is because of what you said in one of your other threads. W2L, you stated that she will wear makeup, dress up, wear lingerie when the two of you are intimate... but does not want to do that when out on a date. You also stated that she didn't like the new car you got because it is loud, uncomfortable, and draws attention. These are clues, W2L. It's ok that you don't like that this is how she feels about these things. But they show that she feels very differently about the outside attention than you do. You are definitely mismatched, neither unwilling to budge. There are other things in play, too, as mentioned in your other thread. 

I'm curious what you would say if she decided to wear a nice dress, in a flattering style and color, but wore flat dress shoes or sandals, and chose not to wear makeup... and you went to your favorite restaurant. How would you react? What would you say to her? Would you compliment her on how she looks and leave it at that? Or would you follow it up with, "now, if you would just wear some makeup..."?



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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> This is where we are completely different. For YOU it's ok to go 6 or 7 years without going out. For me that is INSANE. I can't even fathom that for a minute and to think that's normal. Yet, at the same time you criticize me because I want my wife to wear makeup. Going 6-7 years without going out on a date is more damaging to a relationship than wanting my wife to wear lipstick a few hours per year.


No. You missed my point entirely. I said we don't GO OUT ON DATES. But we DO spend a lot of quality time together. It would be damaging if we didn't spend time together. 

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

It would prob. be the same as if we went to that same restaurant and I wore a beat up t-shirt, shorts, and old sneakers. Would prob. have the same effect. The dress would be a start and better than yoga pants that she wears all the time. I would be happy we were actually going on a date but disappointed that again she put in no effort.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

This is a picture of my wife dressed up from a few years ago. SHE IS INSANELY HOTT!!!! CRAZY HOTT!!!!! Why can't I ever get her to look like this ever again??? 

Why is it so bad that I desire her to look this way a few times per year so we can go out and I can show her off to the world???


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> It would prob. be the same as if we went to that same restaurant and I wore a beat up t-shirt, shorts, and old sneakers. Would prob. have the same effect. The dress would be a start and better than yoga pants that she wears all the time. I would be happy we were actually going on a date but disappointed that again she put in no effort.


Sad. And that is what you would convey to her... Not good enough. And she likely can feel this already, so doesn't see a point in trying. You already don't listen, have even admitted to tuning her out when she talks about how she feels about things, whether an ailment or just a general "I am not comfortable with this". So, why bother when she knows any little effort will be met with "it's not enough, I want more"?

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Maricha75 said:


> Sad. And that is what you would convey to her... Not good enough. And she likely can feel this already, so doesn't see a point in trying. You already don't listen, have even admitted to tuning her out when she talks about how she feels about things, whether an ailment or just a general "I am not comfortable with this". So, why bother when she knows any little effort will be met with "it's not enough, I want more"?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


See ABOVE. I want her to look like that AGAIN.... She got dressed up like this often and we would go out often with her dressed like this and me in a shirt and tie etc. Why is it so bad that I want her to do this again????


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> This is a picture of my wife dressed up from a few years ago. SHE IS INSANELY HOTT!!!! CRAZY HOTT!!!!! Why can't I ever get her to look like this ever again???
> 
> Why is it so bad that I desire her to look this way a few times per year so we can go out and I can show her off to the world???


Try a side-by-side comparison. And, what if she chose a dress that was a little longer, both shoulders covered, and not clingy? Would you still think her choice of dress was attractive, if it was flattering and accented her looks? Or would it HAVE to be this style to be acceptable to you? 

*Note* I am NOT slamming anyone who chooses this style of clothing. If you are comfortable wearing it, by all means, wear it. But I am trying to figure out exactly when it will be "good enough"/acceptable dress for W2L wife, nothing more.



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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> See ABOVE. I want her to look like that AGAIN.... She got dressed up like this often and we would go out often with her dressed like this and me in a shirt and tie etc. Why is it so bad that I want her to do this again????


IF you go out, what does she normally wear? I am curious about her current choice of attire for special occasions, etc.

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

She has long Maxi dresses as well that she looks awesome in. Doesn't have to be short just something she looks great in.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Maricha75 said:


> IF you go out, what does she normally wear? I am curious about her current choice of attire for special occasions, etc.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


We haven't gone out in 2 years so her normal attire is a sweat shirt and yoga pants or sweat pants and flip flops. I DESTEST flip-flops by the way but don't say anything.

You could take the hottest woman not he planet and put her in flip flops and she drops 70%. They make me cringe.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> We haven't gone out in 2 years so her normal attire is a sweat shirt and yoga pants or sweat pants and flip flops. I DESTEST flip-flops by the way but don't say anything.
> 
> You could take the hottest woman not he planet and put her in flip flops and she drops 70%. They make me cringe.


So, when she wears flip-flops, she loses 70% of her attractiveness?

:wtf: Seriously? :surprise:

I am wondering if your complaints about your wife are more about *you *than they are about *her*? :scratchhead:


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> We haven't gone out in 2 years so her normal attire is a sweat shirt and yoga pants or sweat pants and flip flops. I DESTEST flip-flops by the way but don't say anything.
> 
> You could take the hottest woman not he planet and put her in flip flops and she drops 70%. They make me cringe.


I don't mind them, but they are definitely not for dressing up. I wasn't specifically talking about going out. By special occasions, I also was including weddings, birthdays, and other occasions where one would wear something dressy. Even church. But, I do agree about wearing something other than sweats all the time.

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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

FWIW I completely understand OP. My 2nd X loved that I dressed up and dolled up when we went out anywhere. I knew he loved this and because I loved him, I got all laquered up for him. I did it for him! 

We gave our relationship a try a couple of months ago, and even though I don't normally get all dolled up, I most certainly did when we got back together. I went shopping and bought new clothes that flattered my figure and I knew would be and eye catcher for him. It worked of course because I know him and wanted to please him. It's part of loving and giving your partner what he desires. That, to me, was not changing me; but filling my partner's needs. 

OP's wife isn't doing that for whatever reason and that is very sad indeed. It would be selfish of her to not please her partner on something he has flat out Made it clear HE needs. Her lack of care for fulfilling such a simple need is very telling of where she is regarding this relationship. 

He is not asking for an outrageous change. He simply wants to see her dolled up for him a couple of times a week. How is that wanting to change her? She is stubborn and self sabotaging this relationship for a reason she is the only one that knows or needs to figure out.

I'm sorry OP will be seen as the bad guy for leaving due to her very true illness now. Unfortunately, too much damage was done to this marriage before the illness came into their lives. There is probably no way this relationship can survive her illness. IMO, it is selfish to ask OP to wait this out. He hasn't stepped out of the marriage to get his needs met. He has tried to convey just how unhappy he has been for a while. Her life changing illness is not going to help him make her want to fill his needs. She will see him as being selfish for leaving her at this time in her life, but who is really the selfish one in this relationship?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> I don't mind them, but they are definitely not for dressing up. I wasn't specifically talking about going out. By special occasions, I also was including weddings, birthdays, and other occasions where one would wear something dressy. Even church. But, I do agree about wearing something other than sweats all the time.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Wearing sweats al lthe time, yoga pants, flip-flops.

There's something wrong with this picture.

Sounds to me like someone who is depressed or who has a fear of her body being seen?

This is worrying.

And all OP is interested in is "How to leave my wife?"


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

When2Leave said:


> As for mentioning to my brothers girlfriend about my desire to have my wife wear makeup etc she agreed with ME 1000000%. She said as a woman it is her job to look good for her man. No questions asked. She said a woman should wear makeup when she goes out with her man because that's how she makes him feel special. she said my wife should suck it up throw on some heels and get made up and we need to go out.


LOL how long has your brother and his gf been dating? I get the impression not as long as you and your wife have been married. And, are they younger than you and your wife? Lastly, does she have lymes disease like your wife?

One more for you. Did you indeed delete your OLD profile and tell your wife you did?
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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Wearing sweats al lthe time, yoga pants, flip-flops.
> 
> There's something wrong with this picture.
> 
> ...


That, and how to get her to wear makeup when she has no interest in it. But, if you read his other threads, you see there is a lot more going on than what he WANTS her to do. He doesn't NEED her to get all dolled up to show off to everyone, he WANTS it. And it's getting ridiculous reading so many saying he NEEDS it.

He also has an old girlfriend on Facebook. A woman he has stated that his wife has said she does not like. But, it's ok that he has this "insanely beautiful" woman as his friend, though his wife doesn't like her.

But, of course, this has NOTHING to do with the problems they are having. Nope. It's all because of her and "blah, blah, blah" (OP words, not mine).



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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> So, when she wears flip-flops, she loses 70% of her attractiveness?
> 
> :wtf: Seriously? :surprise:
> 
> I am wondering if your complaints about your wife are more about *you *than they are about *her*? :scratchhead:


LOL Mattmatt! 

Great pictures, but I think OP's wife wears flip flops that are NOT that flattering to her attire or even her feet and naked toes.:wink2:

I loved the first picture of just the feet fully laquered up (she most certainly needs a retouch though...big grin) If his wife doesn't even want to make her face up a couple of times a week, do you think she bothers having her toes looking as nice as the ones on your picture?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> LOL Mattmatt!
> 
> Great pictures, but I think OP's wife wears flip flops that are NOT that flattering to her attire or even her feet and naked toes.:wink2:
> 
> I loved the first picture of just the feet fully laquered up. If his wife doesn't even want to make her face up a couple of times a week, do you think she bothers having her toes looking as nice as the ones on your picture?


He already stated elsewhere that she will do it when it is JUST the two of them. Why no one acknowledges this is beyond me. 

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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I did read about her doing it for just them two. He also stated that she tried to comply with his needs, but that only lasts for about a week. They have not been intimate for weeks now. His needs are not being met by Her. They haven't been met consistently for a couple of years now. 

The guy is not perfect, the FB female friend his wife doesn't like is one thing we know that he needs to acknowledge that he doesn't put Her needs and concerns first either. I suspect that she has plenty of complains about him that will show him in a different light. 

Unfortunately, we don't have her side of the story, but he is pretty much done with this marriage. His life is his and he wants out. I can respect that because I am not emotionally invested in him. I don't think his wife is either for whatever reason. Depression may indeed be the case, but she refuses professional help to fix the funk she was in before Lyme disease came to light. 

It's sad that a 15 year marriage with a little boy in the mix ends; but 
OP's needs, feelings, and desires are very real to him and they are also very important too.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> I did read about her doing it for just them two. He also stated that she tried to comply with his needs, but that only lasts for about a week. They have not been intimate for weeks now. His needs are not being met by Her. They haven't been met consistently for a couple of years now.
> 
> The guy is not perfect, the FB female friend his wife doesn't like is one thing we know that he needs to acknowledge that he doesn't put Her needs and concerns first either. I suspect that she has plenty of complains about him that will show him in a different light.
> 
> ...


They have not been intimate for weeks because she has been SICK. But I agree, she should be meeting his needs, otherwise. The actual needs, not just the things he wants. And, yes, it would be great if we had her side of this, too. He checked out long ago, even before she got the Lyme diagnosis. I just hope that, in his next relationship, he makes sure she knows she MUST paint herself up to look beautiful in his eyes and that she MUST be willing to be shown off to the world... Otherwise, she will not be good enough. 

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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

OP, you know that you're superficial (and I agree) but I also think that you want these things as a form of validation. Think about it... you drive a flashy and loud sports car and you want the matching trophy wife to show off. 

Ask yourself what is it that you're trying to prove? Is this an ego or external validation issue?

I understand wanting to be with someone who understands what dressing properly for the occasion entails. I don't understand this obsession of yours to 'own' the hottest woman in the room. 

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Maricha75 said:


> They have not been intimate for weeks because she has been SICK. But I agree, she should be meeting his needs, otherwise. The actual needs, not just the things he wants. And, yes, it would be great if we had her side of this, too. He checked out long ago, even before she got the Lyme diagnosis. I just hope that, in his next relationship, he makes sure she knows she MUST paint herself up to look beautiful in his eyes and that she MUST be willing to be shown off to the world... Otherwise, she will not be good enough.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


The sex issue has been going on for over 2 years now not just the past 3 months. She doesn't meet any of my needs. I'm miserable in this relationship. Maybe the makeup thing is a NEED and not a WANT. Who cares which one it is. It's important to me.

As I've said many times that I'm not perfect by any means but I can PROMISE I do more than most men out there with relation to being a husband and a father.

In order to look beautiful you're right she MUST put an effort in. Besides right now my being out of shape I'm ALWAYS in great shape. I workout 6+ times per week and make that a priority. It's a benefit she gets to enjoy as well as I do. Her friends comment (not now because I'm at my worst) to her how lucky she is that her husband is so healthy and has all muscle.

If I can put work into making myself look good and I spend 8-10+ hours PER WEEK doing this she can spend 20 minutes a week putting on makeup.

Also, as far as wearing makeup and lingerie for me well, that more or less hasn't happened ALL YEAR. WELL BEFORE THE LYME DISEASE.

I can't help it if my timing sucks and you don't agree with me but I don't deserve to live in a prison either.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Lila said:


> OP, you know that you're superficial (and I agree) but I also think that you want these things as a form of validation. Think about it... you drive a flashy and loud sports car and you want the matching trophy wife to show off.
> 
> Ask yourself what is it that you're trying to prove? Is this an ego or external validation issue?
> 
> ...


What does it matter? I enjoy beauty and a beautiful woman. So what if I like things that are beautiful. Why do I drive a flashy sports car? Because it makes ME happy nothing more nothing less. I love cars and appreciate their beauty. I work hard, make sacrifices and can afford to buy 3 cars. Doesn't make me a bad person.

I want my wife to get dolled up and go out because it makes ME happy. My wife is beautiful and no matter what happens I will always say that. However, she's very very plain. I'm OK with that most of the time but on a rare occasion she should dress up and look like an absolute knockout. 

You all act like I expect this to happen every single day. We are talking a few times a YEAR!!!! NOT WEEK- YEAR!!! WTF


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lila said:


> OP, you know that you're superficial (and I agree) but I also think that you want these things as a form of validation. Think about it... you drive a flashy and loud sports car and you want the matching trophy wife to show off.












Ever since I noticed Snoop drives with a chandelier in his car, I've always wanted one!


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Bibi1031 said:


> LOL Mattmatt!
> 
> Great pictures, but I think OP's wife wears flip flops that are NOT that flattering to her attire or even her feet and naked toes.:wink2:
> 
> I loved the first picture of just the feet fully laquered up (*she most certainly needs a retouch though*...big grin) If his wife doesn't even want to make her face up a couple of times a week, do you think she bothers having her toes looking as nice as the ones on your picture?


I wonder how many men noticed this? I just saw painted toenails but to me feet are strictly utilitarian.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

When2Leave said:


> As I write this my wife texts me from the other room that she loves me.


Do spouses really text each other in the house? Really??

You all must live in large houses. Get a smaller one. More intimacy.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> The sex issue has been going on for over 2 years now not just the past 3 months. She doesn't meet any of my needs. I'm miserable in this relationship. Maybe the makeup thing is a NEED and not a WANT. Who cares which one it is. It's important to me.
> 
> As I've said many times that I'm not perfect by any means but I can PROMISE I do more than most men out there with relation to being a husband and a father.
> 
> ...


No one is saying you deserve to live in a prison. As far as your timing... is there ever a good time to make the decision to end your marriage? 

So, you're now out of shape? What happened? How long have you been out of shape? And how MUCH out of shape are you? Be honest, don't try to downplay it. You put it out there.

You working out to try to get back into shape is for your health. It isn't the same as her painting herself because you WANT her to do it. If she was working out to improve her health, that would be in the same category as your working out. 

Her wearing makeup because you WANT her to is the same as you wearing the clothes you mentioned in your other thread because she WANTS you to. Neither is needed, but is a preference... a want. 

Now, as for things pretty much halting before the Lyme dx, I agree that should not have happened. But, you gave a little more insight, too... As I said in your other thread... tip of the iceberg. We're getting trickle truth from you, here. Hmmm...

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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Do spouses really text each other in the house? Really??
> 
> You all must live in large houses. Get a smaller one. More intimacy.


Sometimes. I text my husband if we don't want the kids to know what we're talking about... or if we don't want to yell across the house... Sometimes, I will text "I love you" to him, when he is in the living room and I am in the bedroom. And we live in a smaller 3 bedroom apartment. 

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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Talk to her before you meet a woman who will take advantage of your vulnerability and you end up cheating!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> What does it matter? I enjoy beauty and a beautiful woman. So what if I like things that are beautiful. Why do I drive a flashy sports car? Because it makes ME happy nothing more nothing less. I love cars and appreciate their beauty. I work hard, make sacrifices and can afford to buy 3 cars. Doesn't make me a bad person.
> 
> I want my wife to get dolled up and go out because it makes ME happy. My wife is beautiful and no matter what happens I will always say that. However, she's very very plain. I'm OK with that most of the time but on a rare occasion she should dress up and look like an absolute knockout.
> 
> You all act like I expect this to happen every single day. We are talking a few times a YEAR!!!! NOT WEEK- YEAR!!! WTF


There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking beautiful things and beautiful women. You acknowledge that these make YOU happy. But, do you REALLY know what makes her happy? Have you asked her EXACTLY WHAT makes HER happy? You talk about your needs not being met, and I don't dispute that. None of us do. But, do you KNOW that you are meeting HER needs? Or do you ASSUME you are because of the things you do? It could be just as simple as you THINK you are meeting her needs, but really are not, so she is resentful. 

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

aston said:


> Talk to her before you meet a woman who will take advantage of your vulnerability and you end up cheating!


I'm not worried about that. I won't cheat on her. If I do decide to move out then I will start dating. If I move out then we will be over with no chance to get back together.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

As for being out of shape I'm in the worst shape I've been in over 5 years. To most people I prob. look fine but to me I feel disgusting. This happened because of all the stress with the Lyme Disease and my wife begging me to be home all the time. On top of that I have an injury that isn't healing preventing me from doing a lot of things. 

That said, it will take me 3 weeks to be back in good shape and 6-8 weeks to be where I want to be again.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Maricha75 said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking beautiful things and beautiful women. You acknowledge that these make YOU happy. But, do you REALLY know what makes her happy? Have you asked her EXACTLY WHAT makes HER happy? You talk about your needs not being met, and I don't dispute that. None of us do. But, do you KNOW that you are meeting HER needs? Or do you ASSUME you are because of the things you do? It could be just as simple as you THINK you are meeting her needs, but really are not, so she is resentful.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


What makes her happy? HONESTLY??? It's doing absolutely NOTHING. She admitted she just wants to be able to relax and watch TV.

I hate TV and watch 2 hours a week. I enjoy Naked and Afraid and Tyrant and that's all I watch. She watches crap like Big Brother and cooking shows which I can't stand. 

I do a TON with my son and I enjoy that. I'm not looking for a single lifestyle as I love being a family. I would say the best years of my life were when we first got married and the first few years after my son was born. Things were challenging for sure but they were also great.

If I could fix the problems within my marriage and get my needs met I would never leave. But, after fighting for this for years now I know that's not going to happen. I don't know what's up with my wife as she won't communicate it. Whenever we have a conversation it turns into a fight because she reads into everything. No matter what I say it gets turned around on me.

If she would go to counseling I know for a fact that we could fix our marriage. I would make changes and so would she and we would be quickly back in love with all the passion we once had. But, I can't make her do anything to fix this and I'm sick of shovelling Shiznit against the tide.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

As for how I look. Here is a pic of me of how I should look and I don't look like that now. I can get it back but I work hard to stay healthy. A simple compliment every now and again about all my hard work would go a long way but that also doesn't happen. Well, from her anyways other women would give me compliments which would only piss my wife off.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> I wonder how many men noticed this? I just saw painted toenails but to me feet are strictly utilitarian.


My X would have noticed the painted toe nails for sure. You are right about the retouch part though. Most women would notice that instead of just painted toenails because "details" like that are really important to most of us. If my toenails needed a much needed retouch like the ones pictured, I would probably have them polish free until I could get them redone at the nail salon.:smile2:


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

You know it takes years to get an actual Lyme's disease diagnosis in most cases...

As a medical professional, the first thing we are taught is HAI (well one of the first things) and how to identify it and stop it from spreading.

HAI is hospital acquired infection. Lyme's is an immune disease. Imagine visiting a sick relative in a hospital and acquiring staphylococcus or C difficile...or worse meningitis...on top of the Lyme's disease.

Lyme's disease suppresses the immune system...getting something like staph or strep with an already suppressed immune system can be devastating and quite possibly fatal.

Depending on what your father has medically...it may be a communicable disease to an immune suppressed patient. If it's not but he has a communicable disease he doesn't know about (common cold or flu as an asymptomatic patient - not everyone present symptoms or better yet enterovirus that is asymptomatic) it can still be communicable to her as an immune suppressed patient.

As an MS patient myself who works with both the public and has children in public school I'm at high risk of contracting a hell of a lot.

There was whooping cough outbreaks here in town along with enterovirus (gastroenteritis causing strain). One of my kids ended up with the enterovirus for three weeks. You can imagine how scary it is to have to be at risk all the time (luckily, didn't get it or whooping cough for that matter).

The whole world is a scary, potentially devastating fatal gauntlet when you are a high risk, immuno-suppressed patient.

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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

When2Leave said:


> As for what's wrong with my dad he has C.O.P.D. which is a NASTY disease. He's had major complications which is why he was admitted into the hospital. I can see that she doesn't want to visit him in the hospital with her immune system being run down but he moved out near us nearly 2 years ago and she's only been to his house 1 time in those two years. My brothers girlfriend is over there 4+ times each week helping with cleaning, groceries, cooking, etc etc etc. My wife hasn't done ANYTHING to help him in all this time and we only live 10 minutes from him. She lives about 20 minutes away.
> 
> I mentioned to her just now about helping with my dad and she said it's not her responsbility and she has other things to take care of. I think it just boils down to that she's a selfish person and only really cares about her needs. This goes beyond the Lyme Disease and maybe the Lyme Disease is the straw that breaks the camels back.
> 
> ...


Your brother's girlfriend is your brother's girlfriend. Some people can't handle both their disease and watching someone else suffer from disease.

Your wife is ill with an immune compromising disease. COPD patients pick up a lot of respiratory infections without even knowing they have it. My MIL had COPD and was constantly sick from respiratory infections. They pass from person to person quite easily.

She is, at your words, 80% recovered. If she gets an infection that 80% can quickly degrade to 0% in a blink of an eye.

Being on antibiotics also suppresses gut immunity, over all immunity and much more. Continuous antibiotic use can set a person up for antibiotic resistant infections.

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

When she first started getting sick a few of our friends that had or have Lyme messaged us and said it sounded like that's what she had. When going thru the ER's and Primary care and Infectious Disease unit we couldn't get a diagnosis. Her primary gave her antibiotics when we fought with her to give it to her but then wouldn't continue them when she ran out. We found a Lyme Specialist who confirmed she has Lyme. He's been great and has her on several herbs along with antibiotics.

My dad has COPD so she has no way of catching that.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

lucy999 said:


> LOL how long has your brother and his gf been dating? I get the impression not as long as you and your wife have been married. And, are they younger than you and your wife? Lastly, does she have lymes disease like your wife?
> 
> One more for you. Did you indeed delete your OLD profile and tell your wife you did?
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


OP you must have missed my questions because I don't see your answers. So I am posting this again.



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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Maricha75 said:


> No one is saying you deserve to live in a prison. As far as your timing... is there ever a good time to make the decision to end your marriage?
> 
> So, you're now out of shape? What happened? How long have you been out of shape? And how MUCH out of shape are you? Be honest, don't try to downplay it. You put it out there.
> 
> ...



Great points and boy can I agree. We are seeing glimpses of OP's life and most certainly not all of it. The reality however is that he is pretty much done with the marriage. The love is not there according to him. He truly believes this and his feelings are very valid. That comes across regardless of the tip of the iceberg "thingie" or trickle truth. 

I honestly think the war on this marriage is lost. Why fight another battle to save a very dead marriage in W2L's eyes?

They are maneuvering through midlife and it sure looks like they both are at a crossroads. I also think there is a little history being rewritten here as well. Feelings, needs, and wants are being blurred due to things being magnified at midlife. This time in any person's life can be extremely difficult to get through successfully and with their relationships intact. Many LTR do not survive this storm, they sadly become a casualty of it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> What makes her happy? HONESTLY??? It's doing absolutely NOTHING. She admitted she just wants to be able to relax and watch TV.
> 
> I hate TV and watch 2 hours a week. I enjoy Naked and Afraid and Tyrant and that's all I watch. She watches crap like Big Brother and cooking shows which I can't stand.
> 
> ...


You cannot make that guarantee. There is no certainty. Likely? Probably. Definitely? No.

And, your answer showed that you don't truly know what YOU can do to make her happy... yet, you expect her to make you happy. You say you are tired of a one-sided marriage. She may be saying the same thing.

Also, it's telling that you share pictures of each of you, showing how you both *used to* look... but nothing current. You are not obligated, but it is telling.

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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bibi1031 said:


> LOL Mattmatt!
> 
> Great pictures, but I think OP's wife wears flip flops that are NOT that flattering to her attire or even her feet and naked toes.:wink2:
> 
> I loved the first picture of just the feet fully laquered up (she most certainly needs a retouch though...big grin) If his wife doesn't even want to make her face up a couple of times a week, do you think she bothers having her toes looking as nice as the ones on your picture?


Then he needs to buy those type of flip-flops for her!


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

When2Leave said:


> When she first started getting sick a few of our friends that had or have Lyme messaged us and said it sounded like that's what she had. When going thru the ER's and Primary care and Infectious Disease unit we couldn't get a diagnosis. Her primary gave her antibiotics when we fought with her to give it to her but then wouldn't continue them when she ran out. We found a Lyme Specialist who confirmed she has Lyme. He's been great and has her on several herbs along with antibiotics.
> 
> My dad has COPD so she has no way of catching that.


Of course you can't catch COPD. It's primarily a smokers disease.

However, if he has no symptoms of infections but has one (aka lung infection which COPD can mask or hide) and she gets it. Bye bye 80% recovery.

Like I said people with disease sometimes have difficulties seeing others with a disease suffer. It's scares them. Have you asked her why she doesn't see him?

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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

When2Leave said:


> What does it matter? I enjoy beauty and a beautiful woman. So what if I like things that are beautiful. Why do I drive a flashy sports car? Because it makes ME happy nothing more nothing less. I love cars and appreciate their beauty. I work hard, make sacrifices and can afford to buy 3 cars. Doesn't make me a bad person.
> 
> I want my wife to get dolled up and go out because it makes ME happy. My wife is beautiful and no matter what happens I will always say that. However, she's very very plain. I'm OK with that most of the time but on a rare occasion she should dress up and look like an absolute knockout.
> 
> You all act like I expect this to happen every single day. We are talking a few times a YEAR!!!! NOT WEEK- YEAR!!! WTF


 Okay, drill down. WHY does it make you happy? You've said your wife wears the lingerie and makeup FOR YOU in the privacy of your room. Why does it make you happy to see her made up FOR OTHERS? 

You made it to the big time and now you want everyone to know. I get it. It's like the Jefferson's sitcom song "Moving on up'. 



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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Ever since I noticed Snoop drives with a chandelier in his car, I've always wanted one!


I was thinking more in line with Housewives of Atlanta or Basketball Wives. 

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Maricha75- My brother and his girlfriend have been together for 3 years now. I'm trying to ask my wife what makes her happy and her first response was "Not feeling like poop" so I responded "besides being sick" and her response was "no stress." That's all I could get out of her. 

She can't even answer a simple question.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Lila said:


> Okay, drill down. WHY does it make you happy? You've said your wife wears the lingerie and makeup FOR YOU in the privacy of your room. Why does it make you happy to see her made up FOR OTHERS?
> 
> You made it to the big time and now you want everyone to know. I get it. It's like the Jefferson's sitcom song "Moving on up'.
> 
> ...


I should have said that she USED TO wear makeup and lingerie for me in private. She doesn't do that anymore and hasn't for nearly a year now. 

What about it makes me happy? Everything about it. For whatever reason when I started having an interest in girls I always liked the girls that wore the shiny shoes and had makeup on. There was something that drew me to them.

My first real crush was with this girl Jilian and she had the most amazing lips. She wore the best lipstick and that was my first real attraction. Since her a girls lips are the first thing that I notice. The better the color the better.

I was brought up looking at magazines of women and they all had makeup on. I grew attracted to that look since I started puberty and I have ever since.

When my wife gets dressed up it makes my heart pound. I look at her in such a different way. She becomes very sexual and it's a thrill. Going out with her dressed up increases the anxiousness of what's to come. It's like unwrapping that most incredible present on Christmas Day.

I look at it as foreplay. Staring at her wondering what she's thinking, wondering what's going to happen later on and the longer it goes the longer I can't control myself. It's a tease in a great way. I'm very visual as most guys are. I'm prob. a lot more than most.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

In her own words, yes, watching TV is what makes her happy.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

When2Leave said:


> When my wife gets dressed up it makes my heart pound. I look at her in such a different way. She becomes very sexual and it's a thrill. Going out with her dressed up increases the anxiousness of what's to come. It's like unwrapping that most incredible present on Christmas Day.
> 
> *I look at it as foreplay.* Staring at her wondering what she's thinking, wondering what's going to happen later on and the longer it goes the longer I can't control myself. It's a tease in a great way. I'm very visual as most guys are. I'm prob. a lot more than most.


Well this answers a lot. You see her getting all dolled up as 'foreplay' and 'things to come'. She probably knows this and doesn't want to lead you to believe sex is on the table. In other words, she doesn't want to give you the impression that she wants to have sex with you. 

It's unfortunate but she's learned to associate dressing up with the expectations for sex. Maybe she'd be more willing to dress up and go out on dates if she didn't feel this way. I don't see a way to dissassociate the two less than going on dates and asking for nothing in return. Would you be open to doing that? 


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

When2Leave said:


> Maricha75- My brother and his girlfriend have been together for 3 years now. I'm trying to ask my wife what makes her happy and her first response was "Not feeling like poop" so I responded "besides being sick" and her response was "no stress." That's all I could get out of her.
> 
> She can't even answer a simple question.


First, I'm of the mind set that when people have a problem it is our responsibility as the person with the problem to seek the solution. We are obligated to ourselves to either see a doctor when sick, a psychologist or therapist when we have mental or emotional problems. Etc.

OBLIGATED to ourselves. When one refuses to seek that help it is wrong. It does a disservice to ourselves and is a show of lack of self respect.

On that note: WE are responsible for our own happiness. Our partner may be a variable to that happiness (either adding to or taking away from).

If they take away from we are obligated to set our personal boundaries and limitations (particularly in the beginning phases of relationships) and remind of those boundaries and limitations. We are not entitled to excuses for what we desire or want...what we want and desire are not necessarily needs.

I usually weigh out pros and cons as well with cold hard logic. What do I want? Do I want a partner who is my equal (intellectually, emotionally, psychologically) or do I want a partner that wears a suit and tie every day...what is a need and what is a desire/want?

My boundaries and limitations are i can't have a partner that is "dumber than a bag of rocks" intellectually. Who can't have a logical, well worded conversation and doesn't stimulate my intellect and logic. Does he have to wear a suit and tie every day... Nope.

(Luckily for me the husband has an IQ of 187... Mine is 137 and he hates dressing up as do I).

My point? Everyone has desires and wants but rarely ever really appreciates what they need (not saying you don't). We really don't evaluate desire and want against need efficiently.

I find it... interesting by the way that you keep comparing the brother and his girlfriend to your relationship with the wife. Logic dictates (from this whole thread) this (at least my logic seems to be veering toward this particularly interesting conclusion)...

You want a healthy wife, you compare her to the boyfriend's girlfriend because she is disease free. You didn't sign up for this "sick wife act" (oh but you did, vows and all right). Why me? Why do I have to end up with the sick wife (sic partner). Why does everyone else get what they want? Why does it come easier for others? What did I do to deserve this...why can't she just suck it up and be what she used to be? Why do *I* have to be the one to have to deal with this sh##? It's not fair...

Did I not warn you of caregiver burn out in your other thread? That is what you are experiencing, massive caregiver burn out.

She needs to go to counselling for both her illness and her marriage. You need to go to counselling for both caregiver burn out and your marriage.

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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

@When2Leave are you deliberately being obtuse? did you delete your OLD profile and did you tell your wife? With each post of yours, I think you've got someone else in mind. You're constantly comparing.

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

lucy999 said:


> @When2Leave are you deliberately being obtuse? did you delete your OLD profile and did you tell your wife? With each post of yours, I think you've got someone else in mind. You're constantly comparing.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Yes, I'm comparing how unhappy I am and how happy I could be in the right situation. This is why I'm making this change.

I did not delete the account. Why bother if I'm moving out in the next month or so? I'm going to need it. I told my wife how it's important that when she's better that we go out and live life and she just doesn't care. I told her it's a need of mine and her response was "sure thing." 

I don't care what anyone on here thinks of me because you don't know me. All I know is that I'm extremely unhappy with my current situation. Is the Lyme Disease causing added stress and resentment? It sure is. I can admit that. If our relationship was good or even decent before all this happened I'm sure I wouldn't be on here but unfortunately before all this happened I was ready to throw in the towel. Then, all this happened so I stuck around but now I just don't ever see this being a healthy relationship.

At the end of the day people change and people out grow people. My best friend since 1st grade is on a different path than mine and now we almost never talk. We've been friends for 35 years but we've moved on.

I want to experience life and go out and have fun and see the world. She wants to lay in bed and watch TV. I didn't sign up for that and that's not what I want for my life. I don't mind it once in a while but also once in a while I need to go out and enjoy my life. In years past she always used money as an excuse for not doing things. I would mention going on a vacation so she would tell me to instead buy a new snowmobile. At the time I thought it was pretty cool but in retrospect it was just her way of getting out of being a wife.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"I mentioned to her just now about helping with my dad and she said it's not her responsbility and she has other things to take care of. I think it just boils down to that she's a selfish person"

Who is being selfish? You only work 15 hours a week so get your own ass over there and take care of your own father. Your wife is busy taking care of your son.

"Why is it so bad that I desire her to look this way a few times per year so we can go out and I can show her off to the world???"

So you can show her off? Is she your show pony? Maybe she got tired of you treating her like she's an escort for hire. If she doesn't want to go on dates with you, I suspect it's because of the way she is treated on those dates. She is avoiding the dates so she can avoid the treatment. 

Do this woman a favor and divorce her. BTW, when your recently divorced brother marries his girlfriend of 3 years, don't expect her to continue to play Florence F'n Nightingale because she'll then have that ring on her finger.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> "I mentioned to her just now about helping with my dad and she said it's not her responsbility and she has other things to take care of. I think it just boils down to that she's a selfish person"
> 
> Who is being selfish? You only work 15 hours a week so get your own ass over there and take care of your own father. Your wife is busy taking care of your son.
> 
> ...


SHE HAD THE LAST 3 MONTHS OFF OF WORK MY FRIEND. And, I took 100% care of our son in the past 3 month. You know everything.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> SHE HAD THE LAST 3 MONTHS OFF OF WORK MY FRIEND. And, I took 100% care of our son in the past 3 month. You know everything.


She had the last three months off because SHE WAS F'N SICK!!! FFS!! 

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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I only know what you post. If you don't like the responses to your posts, look to your own behavior.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

maricha75 said:


> she had the last three months off because she was f'n sick!!! Ffs!!
> 
> Sent from my samsung-sm-g930a using tapatalk


w r o n g ! ! ! !

Because she is a teacher.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

When2Leave said:


> maricha75 said:
> 
> 
> > she had the last three months off because she was f'n sick!!! Ffs!!
> ...


But she has been sick the last 3 months.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

When2Leave said:


> w r o n g ! ! ! !
> 
> Because she is a teacher.


Odd. You said she has been sick the last three months. No mention of her profession anywhere. But it explains here attitude. If you act like the children she teaches, she will treat you like them.

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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Let's not bother him with the little, petty details. We might ruin his justification rant to leave his slovenly, lazy, uncaring and selfish wife. Wonder if there is a replacement waiting in the wings?


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Let's not bother him with the little, petty details. We might ruin his justification rant to leave his slovenly, lazy, uncaring and selfish wife. Wonder if there is a replacement waiting in the wings?


Logic dictates there indeed is.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Livvie said:


> I think everyone should read his other active thread.


If you say things like that, please put in a link/refence


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OP you do realize that at some point it will be inappropriate for your partner to wear things in public like the pic you posted, don't you? What 60 year old woman, for example, could wear that without other people looking and instead of thinking how hot she is, thinking it's sad she can't accept her age? Because someday you will be 60, 70, 80. And your partner may be older than 30 or 40.

I think she just outgrew the skimpy skin tight clothes naturally as she got older (and had a child). 

If my teen boys saw me wearing a dress like that they would be embarrassed purely because of the skimpy and tight nature of it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > I think everyone should read his other active thread.
> ...


I don't know how to accomplish that on my phone.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

When2Leave said:


> This is a picture of my wife dressed up from a few years ago. SHE IS INSANELY HOTT!!!! CRAZY HOTT!!!!! Why can't I ever get her to look like this ever again???
> 
> Why is it so bad that I desire her to look this way a few times per year so we can go out and I can show her off to the world???


Oh and just for perspective (and maybe a LOL).....I have a dress almost identical to the one you posted above. I haven't worn it in a couple of years. A LOT has happened in those 2 years. I showed my husband your thread and he jokingly (not so jokingly) said "when are you going to wear that dress for me again". With a big fat smile on my face, I responded "when you stop being a d!ck". 

Just thought to toss out my experience. Maybe your wife is feeling the same way.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

spotthedeaddog said:


> If you say things like that, please put in a link/refence





Livvie said:


> I don't know how to accomplish that on my phone.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/showthread.php?t=347393

Done.

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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Thanks!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

WOW, things get ugly very fast. 

Your feelings are real, but feelings are finicky and they come and go. Add midlife magnification to this mix and you have a sure recipe for a crisis. One you are bordering on diving into head first and there is nothing but rock hard dirt at the bottom to cushion your fall. 

If there is no physical other woman in your life right now, there surely is a fantasy of one in your foggy midlife brain!

You are rewriting your marital history because at midlife we tend to look back on what we missed rather than the good things we have accomplished. It's a period where depression sets in and we do things to feel better.

The cars, the working out, the wanting more sex and wanting to feel the exhilaration of yesteryear when it comes to our sexuality is all part of that emotional roller coaster we are thrown on at midlife. 

You need male mentors that have successfully maneuvered through midlife and came across the other side with great insight on how YOU can successfully get through it too. You need professional help as well. That includes a doctor and most certainly a therapist that specializes in people going through midlife. 

Please don't be a cliche. Seek help instead of throwing away your relationships. What the heck is your rush? You won't die tomorrow. Time is on your side. Your poor wife is NOT as lucky.

Get into counseling and find some mentors you can bounce off your issues with. You are miserable and that is a given. It just seems that your blame for your misery is really misplaced. 

You are demonizing your wife in your mind in order to leave her. I may be wrong, but it's not my life on the line; it's yours! Take time to figure all this out. You are not getting your needs met. Well, being single again will not get your needs met soon either. Relationships take time. Spend a little more in the one you already have and seek professional help yesterday!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

We are each obligated to bring the best we can to our marriage. Even though we each have our own challenges, shortcomings, fears, etc, we still are obligated to do what we can to be the best spouse we can.

Your wife is failing to take on this obligation to you and to the marriage. You are not required to sacrifice your life to her illness, especially because that illness is not the main problem but rather a convenient excuse she is using.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Thor said:


> We are each obligated to bring the best we can to our marriage. Even though we each have our own challenges, shortcomings, fears, etc, we still are obligated to do what we can to be the best spouse we can.
> 
> Your wife is failing to take on this obligation to you and to the marriage. You are not required to sacrifice your life to her illness, especially because that illness is not the main problem but rather a convenient excuse she is using.


Wow, someone that is actually on my side. I don't understand why everyone is jumping down my throat here.

It's funny because when I first came to this site everyone told me to read His Needs Her Needs so I did. In that book it says it's PERFECTLY NORMAL for a man to desire his wife to look good. So, I come back here and say this is an emotional need that I need and I get people JUMPING DOWN MY THROAT. These are people that haven't read the book mind you.

I never said I was perfect and I just had a long talk with my wife. I found out the things that she's frustrated about and they are all valid. I'm willing to make these changes to make her more comfortable and less stressed. She says she understands my needs as well. Not sure what this means though.

If I could flip a switch and fix everything I would. I wish she would go to counseling with me but she refuses. I understand what she's going thru being sick and how frustrating it is for her.

I've never been so stressed out in all my life. With the health issues of my wife and father (both going on at the same time) as well as moving my business and dealing with major stress on how to pay for everything and having to be out of my current location at the end of this month. Then, not being able to workout as I would like and dealing with an injury everything is compounding.

I'm clearly emotional now and easily frazzled. I understand that many here won't agree with my NEEDS because they are not YOURS. I'm sure there are things that you like that I would think are crazy and stupid.

Because YOU don't agree with what's important to ME doesn't give you the right to belittle my needs and/or wants.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I wanted to read the entire thread before I responded. Your wife looked hot in that dress. Is her body still in the same great shape, or has she let that go too?

But what more do you REALLY want beside the cosmetic changes???


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Prodigal said:


> I wanted to read the entire thread before I responded. Your wife looked hot in that dress. Is her body still in the same great shape, or has she let that go too?
> 
> But what more do you REALLY want beside the cosmetic changes???


My wife still looks AMAZING. Actually, since getting Lyme she's lost a ton of weight. Once she's better and gets back to working out she'll look better than ever.

She hasn't let herself go. She tends to gain weight over the winter but then loses it in the spring. I'm hoping she keeps it off this year.

I honestly just want to have an actual relationship with her. We never do anything together at all. She doesn't want to do anything really besides watching TV.

She agreed that when she's better she will start doing things together again. We used to go to car shows, RV shows, home show etc. and always had fun with that. She is willing to start that back up.

She also agreed to going out on dates including simple ones where we just get a quick meal but just the two of us. That's a huge plus.

Our sex lives have taken a major hit over the past 2 years and she said she agrees that needs to be a priority again.

In return she wants me getting a life insurance policy, starting a new retirement account, and college fund for our son. She wants to feel comfortable financially and wants us saving more money. I agree with this.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

When2Leave said:


> Because YOU don't agree with what's important to ME doesn't give you the right to belittle my needs and/or wants.


I don't mean to be disparaging, but everyone has a right to their opinions here, as long as they are within forum parameters.

If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like you're both willing to make some changes, and you are still very attracted to your wife. Maybe it's just time for you both to push a 'reset' button, and give it some time. If in 3 to 6 months, things are not improving, then maybe consider leaving. It just seems like you both want to try, and still love each other. Her disease might have placed a lot of stress on you both. Praying things get better, either way.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

When2Leave said:


> My wife still looks AMAZING. Actually, since getting Lyme she's lost a ton of weight. Once she's better and gets back to working out she'll look better than ever.
> 
> She hasn't let herself go. She tends to gain weight over the winter but then loses it in the spring. I'm hoping she keeps it off this year.
> 
> ...


So this really was never just about makeup. 

But you are leaving before the winter, right?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

I am the main one W2L complained about "jumping down [his] throat". For the record, I was not saying that it is WRONG, nor ABNORMAL, for a man to desire his wife to look good. The only part I argued is regarding the necessity of *specific* things. 

Your wife understands your needs. You had a long talk and are both willing to work on meeting those needs. But, while doing this, you need to be patient. She may not go back to getting all dolled up. One step at a time. But, you need to decide if that is a deal breaker for you.

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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

When2Leave said:


> Wow, someone that is actually on my side. I don't understand why everyone is jumping down my throat here.
> 
> 
> *Not at all. Your needs are indeed very valid. Your emotions are as well. I'm just worried about how your emotions are driving your decisions and that is clearly a wrong way to go. You feel like crap and you want this to stop. You are on overload W2L. You have been for quite some time. The thing is that you need to get your emotions in check. That is why a visit to your doctor will help. Read about Andropause. It is real and it is a stage man goes through (it's the female version of menopause). It's like puberty, we ALL go through it. Some of us have a difficult teenage time and do some real crazy things and some of us cruise through it like nothing. Some get stuck in it and never grow up.*
> ...


Nobody here wants a LTM to end. It is a marriage forum after all. The fact that you came here wanting to leave your marriage is going to have some very emotionally charged responses. At least you have thick skin and have been here for some time. Emotional roller coaster and all, you are still posting and you are still communicating with your wife. Today's talk with her went well. Don't give up and don't let her go back to old habits of not being honest and understanding of your needs and wants. It is a two way street though, and you need to do the same for her.

Thank you for the update on you and your wife's talk!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> If you say things like that, please put in a link/refence


Here is a link to his profile, listing his threads:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/search.php?searchid=63945066


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## Richle (Sep 1, 2016)

When2Leave said:


> Maricha75- My brother and his girlfriend have been together for 3 years now. I'm trying to ask my wife what makes her happy and her first response was "Not feeling like poop" so I responded "besides being sick" and her response was "no stress." That's all I could get out of her.
> 
> She can't even answer a simple question.


Just imagine how changed her life after disease. Every day to understand that you are not the same like before. It can take years, YEARS! to accept it. And inability to answer simple question is the smallest disadvantage. And as I understand your relationship now, she never shared her feelings about sickness. She needs support. But if you’re absolutely sure you can’t give it to her, it’s really more honest to leave her.


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## emmasmith (Aug 11, 2016)

Your wife refuses to go counseling. So you both should try some relationship therapy exercise by some couples therapist, *even on Skype* they can solve your problem easily.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Please have the decency to delete your wife's pic.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

When2Leave said:


> Wow, someone that is actually on my side. I don't understand why everyone is jumping down my throat here.
> 
> It's funny because when I first came to this site everyone told me to read His Needs Her Needs so I did. *In that book it says it's PERFECTLY NORMAL for a man to desire his wife to look good. * So, I come back here and say this is an emotional need that I need and I get people JUMPING DOWN MY THROAT. These are people that haven't read the book mind you.
> 
> ...


Ok, this is a emotionally charged issue

It IS perfectly normal for a man to desire his wife to look good, as men are visual creatures and they like to show their wives off. However, it is not perfectly normal to consider dumping your wife over something like this, there has got to be more to you than that?

YOU are emotional and easily frazzled, not a good time to make major life decisions such as leaving your wife. Maybe you are using your wife as a scapegoat in dealing with all the issues when many of them have nothing to do with her at all. Maybe you feel she is unavailable to help you and give you emotional support so you are angry subconsciously and resentful of her. Tell her this.

Believe me, you walk away, it will not magically make all your problems go away, they will continue or be replaced with another set of problems plus all the emotions associated with a divorce, etc.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

When2Leave said:


> When my wife gets dressed up it makes my heart pound. I look at her in such a different way. She becomes very sexual and it's a thrill. Going out with her dressed up increases the anxiousness of what's to come. It's like unwrapping that most incredible present on Christmas Day.


You're not asking for the moon, here. In fact, I would venture to say there are probably a lot of women who would LOVE their husbands to look at them this way and have *this *amount of passion for them and all they had to do was put on a dress, a pair of heels, and some makeup. Because there are plenty of women who DO do this and their husbands don't even notice.

I disagree with most and don't think you're out of bounds for asking that your wife put in just a little effort to please you every once in a while. I'm basing my post solely on THIS thread and haven't read all the history of other threads here. I'm just answering based on* this *particular thread.

I dress up for my husband occasionally - privately at home as well as going out. Last summer, we went into the city to see a Broadway play and there's a very stylish but short summer dress I have with criss-cross lacing up the back and he loves that dress. He wanted me to wear it with my black suede knee-hi high-heeled boots and even though heeled sandals or high heels were more appropriate for the season, I wore the outfit exactly as he requested. A year later, I'm *STILL* hearing from him how beautiful I looked for him that night.

Jeez, it was so little effort for such a big reward. 

As I said, you're not asking her to scale Mt. Everest for God's sakes.

JMHO.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You're not asking for the moon, here. In fact, I would venture to say there are probably a lot of women who would LOVE their husbands to look at them this way and have *this *amount of passion for them and all they had to do was put on a dress, a pair of heels, and some makeup. Because there are plenty of women who DO do this and their husbands don't even notice.
> 
> I disagree with most and don't think you're out of bounds for asking that your wife put in just a little effort to please you every once in a while. I'm basing my post solely on THIS thread and haven't read all the history of other threads here. I'm just answering based on* this *particular thread.
> 
> ...


EXACTLY. A small sacrifice to make your partner happy. I think the issue is there are so many feminists now that don't believe women need to play the toll as a woman. It's why we have men that have no testosterone any longer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

When2Leave said:


> My wife still looks AMAZING. Actually, since getting Lyme she's lost a ton of weight. Once she's better and gets back to working out she'll look better than ever.
> 
> She hasn't let herself go. She tends to gain weight over the winter but then loses it in the spring. I'm hoping she keeps it off this year.
> 
> ...


OP you felt she did not answer your question about what makes her happy.

Seems to me she did and you listened but heard little.

Stress young man.Address that first.Her security seems to be threatened.Work with her to help both of your emotional and financial safety.Slowly the holes in your story are being filled.

This situation is not about sex or how she looks.Those are symptoms not the cause.

Address each concern by priority and life will return to the way it was when you were both happy.

55


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> Do spouses really text each other in the house? Really??
> 
> You all must live in large houses. Get a smaller one. More intimacy.


Yup. Especially after they've just fought. :|


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

While I get what OP wants is a small ask. Let me give you perspective from someone with a chronic condition with no cure and what it's like on a daily basis.

The massive amounts of fatigue is a killer of everything: motivation to get dressed, put on make up, get up, do anything. That's just the fatigue. Then there is the chronic pain. Rolling over in bed can hurt. A soft touch (even from yourself, say like touching your own face) can hurt. A hug, a step...

That's an even bigger demotivating and dehumanizing feeling. The feeling of uselessness...

Secondary depression comes into play (always co morbid with chronic illnesses and is called disease induced depression).

Think of Lyme's disease as a flu on massive amounts of steroids. It's like a super flu. I'll be honest with you and say I'd rather my MS then the Lyme's disease your wife is dealing with...and MS has no cure.

I don't understand why she wouldn't want to seek counselling. Why not? There's nothing wrong with it, is it societal stigma? A bad experience? Some deep seated inner demon she isn't ready to face or doesn't want to?

I think starting there, why she is so adamant about refusing to see a counselor or therapist. Get to the bottom of that. Make up/clothing is not the biggest problem to be honest. It's the complete refusal to see a counselor that would concern me the most in OP shoes.

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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

CantePe said:


> While I get what OP wants is a small ask. Let me give you perspective from someone with a chronic condition with no cure and what it's like on a daily basis.
> 
> The massive amounts of fatigue is a killer of everything: motivation to get dressed, put on make up, get up, do anything. That's just the fatigue. Then there is the chronic pain. Rolling over in bed can hurt. A soft touch (even from yourself, say like touching your own face) can hurt. A hug, a step...
> 
> ...


Her dad actually had MS and passed away last year so I know what you're going thru. It's a very difficult disease for sure.

She is a very private person which is why she says she won't go to counseling. I think in her mind going to talk to someone is admitting there is something wrong with her. I explain all the time that's not the case.

As far as her concerns are we are actually going to sit down tonight and map out our 5 year plan. This includes everything that needs to happen personally and financially during that time. 

She is willing to put in the work and so aren't I. If she is more open minded and so aren't I there is no reason to get this relationship back on track and back to being great. The Lyme Disease couldn't have come at a worse time. We were arguing quite a bit and then this came along and complicated things even further.

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise to some degree to make us take a step back and take a birds eye view of everything. We need to make it thru September and hopefully things will improve afterwards.

We had a talk about the sex issue and she admitted it isn't because she physically can't do it. The issue is because of the antibiotics she's had nearly chronic yeast infections. She's on a prescription Pro-biotic which doesn't seem to working good enough. We have a follow up with her doctor on Friday so hopefully we can get some answers.

I need to be more understanding of her needs and what she's going thru during this time. 

We discussed her weight training in the past and she always refused to do it. I brought it up today when she's better and she said she's open to the idea when she's healthy. She said since she's lost all this weight on Lyme Disease she said it would be nice to get toned up as well.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

When2Leave said:


> Her dad actually had MS and passed away last year so I know what you're going thru. It's a very difficult disease for sure.
> 
> She is a very private person which is why she says she won't go to counseling. I think in her mind going to talk to someone is admitting there is something wrong with her. I explain all the time that's not the case.
> 
> ...


That young man is what they call a very good start

55


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

just got it 55 said:


> OP you felt she did not answer your question about what makes her happy.
> 
> Seems to me she did and you listened but heard little.
> 
> 55


This was after MUCH PRYING and work to get a real answer.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

When2Leave said:


> This was after MUCH PRYING and work to get a real answer.


In some ways your wife is like mine

Serious illness
Very private
Refuses counseling
Prefers tv and online games

These are all related. You need to work through this slowly and methodically if you want to understand her 

You can do this . After 24 years i finally got my wife to go to IC 

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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

When2Leave said:


> I'm not worried about that. I won't cheat on her. If I do decide to move out then I will start dating. If I move out then we will be over with no chance to get back together.


Not saying you will, everyone goes in with good intentions and never assume you won't when you're already emotionally vulnerable.
You have to realize that when you're in a great place, you're also emotionally strong and basically a fortress. 
Once there 's doubt (among other things), that fortress becomes less and less of a fortress...


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Quick trick for yeast infection however, she must be comfortable with herself to do this, plain yoghurt. Yeah you guessed it put it there.

Female MS patients actually go through a lot of yeast infection and UTI (I've been lucky that I'm not one that does).

The plain yoghurt works for UTI as well. If she has gut problems (I have dysfunctional gallbladder syndrome) or the herks are really making her nauseated try eating pineapple chunks (bromaline helps digestion and stops stomach problems).

I'm sorry you two are struggling with her illness. Antibiotics suck the life out of ones immune system and gut (kills off good bacteria with the bad, causing lots of issues).

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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

As for counselling and being a private person. I'm an introvert to the core. I'm very private as well however, she should at least try it once before saying no. Perhaps finding a female counselor, one she is comfortable with or even a social worker and start with her illness first then work her way around to other personal issues.

Or even find a support group. Depression anonymous has many chapters all over the globe. Don't have to speak at all, just listen to others. Even start with an MS support group (her dad passed, I'm assuming of complications of MS?) Or a Lyme's disease support group. Start with that then move forward at a comfortable pace?

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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

CantePe said:


> Quick trick for yeast infection however, she must be comfortable with herself to do this, plain yoghurt. Yeah you guessed it put it there.
> 
> Female MS patients actually go through a lot of yeast infection and UTI (I've been lucky that I'm not one that does).
> 
> ...


Kefir is also good. Pair the yogurt or Kefir with bananas. They are pre-biotic, meaning they help nourish the probiotics in the gut & intestines.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

spinsterdurga said:


> Why are you blaming feminists for he fact that some men no longer have testosterone?
> 
> Why do you care so much about what a bunch of strangers on the internet think of you?


Because men are constantly being told that they have to make their wives happy and that women need more respect and to be listen to, so they try not to be the stereotypical Football Husband, and try to measure up to the reports in all the media and what they think (and many wives say they think) a man should be. Which is influenced by feminism.

And it would do good for most men to get a real information about what feminism is selling people - because some of it is pure ****e. Much of it isn't, but some of it is from truly damaged individuals - EG: In one modern feminism class in a nearby university, they were asked to design some buildings.
Some failed the assignment because they had angles and rather functional "square office block" buildings. The "correct answer" had malls and shops and lots of "feminine curves" because feminism wasn't about the "patriarchal interests of men and square lines" but were about soothing curves, natural places gardens/trees, and places were women could spend time being themselves without the stress and ambitions put on them by patriarchal businesses"


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

just got it 55 said:


> That young man is what they call a very good start
> 
> 55


Sadly, this
"I need to be more understanding of her needs and what she's going thru during this time. "

actually translates to
"I want you to enable me and stop bugging me about it"
but is put in "nicer, more polite and socially acceptable" terminology.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Maricha75 said:


> Odd. You said she has been sick the last three months. No mention of her profession anywhere. But it explains here attitude. If you act like the children she teaches, she will treat you like them.


Actually, most teachers treat all their family (siblings included) like children, including using their "classroom voice".

the annoying part is humans adapt easily to familiar roles, so it tends to result in positive reinforcement for both parties.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

When2Leave said:


> We haven't gone out on a date in almost 2 years now, we haven't had sex in 3 months and it's only been a few times this entire year.


How to leave your wife? Most people usually walk out the front or side door unless you have a garage. That works too.

When to leave? ASAP, she's has decided to stop meeting your needs so feel free to nullify your marriage contract.

For better or worse, only applies when both parties are making an effort. She's checked out, therefore so should you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> How to leave your wife? Most people usually walk out the front or side door unless you have a garage. That works too.
> 
> When to leave? ASAP, she's has decided to stop meeting your needs so feel free to nullify your marriage contract.
> 
> For better or worse, only applies when both parties are making an effort. She's checked out, therefore so should you.


She's checked out? Checked out of what, exactly? :scratchhead:

She is probably doing her best.

But you know something? If our best isn't good enough, is that always our fault?

An extreme example: 

WOMAN A: "I do wish my husband would run a mile in four minutes."
WOMAN B: "How well does he do?"
WOMAN A: "He can run a mile in 11 minutes."
WOMAN B: "That sounds pretty good, actually."
WOMAN A: "Yes, but he blames his lack of ability on the fact he has an artificial leg. But I know he could run a four minute mile if he'd just try harder!"
WOMAN B: "Why... you... %$£&ing %$£"??! issed: "

Sometimes the demands of a spouse might seem unreasonable to an outsider.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She is probably doing her best.


Sex 3-4 times a year is not her best. It's not ANYONES best.

Come on now....


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Actually, most teachers treat all their family (siblings included) like children, including using their "classroom voice".
> 
> the annoying part is humans adapt easily to familiar roles, so it tends to result in positive reinforcement for both parties.


Oh Pleeeze! That is sooooooo wrong. 



OP, is your wife still working? How is that going for her?


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

We decided we are gong to work on things to make the necessary improvements. THIS IS A GREAT THING.

we had a long talk about both of our needs last night and she understands what my needs are and why they are important to me and vice versa.

My needs: (when she is better of course)

sex 2-3 times per week (she said she agrees this will keep things exciting and she will do other things while she is recovering)
She's going to workout with me (again when she's better)
She agrees to at least 2 dates per month (Mostly just dinner/movie dates with no less than 5 overnights per year)
She agrees to make more of an effort in dressing nicer for me and wearing makeup. 
She agrees to be more open with communication and not get defensive whenever we have a discussion
she agrees to go out more frequently as a family and go to car shows etc

Her Needs:

She wants more help around the house with the cleaning etc.
She wants more financial stability and for me to start a new retirement account and life insurance for me
She wants a new house next spring
She wants to connect more on an emotional level
She wants to have more physical intimacy - not always leading up to sex


So, if all goes according to plan things should start improving. Our #1 goal is to get her healthy again.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

That's a good start with the communication, but the proof will be in the pudding. 

In other words, give it time. See if both you and she follow through on your individual promises. Have monthly goals and progress reports. Hold each other accountable. It's going to take both of you making consistent progress and sweeping each of your porches for this to work. It won't be easy and issues won't rectify themself because you had one good heart-to-heart. Don't let your thoughts and hopes get carried away with reality. Stay grounded and focused. One does not change a lifestyle, diet and exercise, and lose 50lbs in a day.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Satya said:


> That's a good start with the communication, but the proof will be in the pudding.
> 
> In other words, give it time. See if both you and she follow through on your individual promises. Have monthly goals and progress reports. Hold each other accountable. It's going to take both of you making consistent progress and sweeping each of your porches for this to work. It won't be easy and issues won't rectify themself because you had one good heart-to-heart. Don't let your thoughts and hopes get carried away with reality. Stay grounded and focused. One does not change a lifestyle, diet and exercise, and lose 50lbs in a day.


Agreed. Also, don't buy a house until you are sure that things are working out. That could be a very big bad decision otherwise.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Sex 3-4 times a year is not her best. It's not ANYONES best.
> 
> Come on now....


It might be *her* best.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> It might be *her* best.


Its not *her* best.



When2Leave said:


> sex 2-3 times per week (she said she agrees this will keep things exciting and she will do other things while she is recovering)


*Clearly.*


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> My brothers girlfriend is over there 4+ times each week helping with cleaning, groceries, cooking, etc etc etc. My wife hasn't done ANYTHING to help him in all this time and we only live 10 minutes from him. She lives about 20 minutes away.


Didn't you say previously you make all kinds of money and part of the reason you want your wife to dress up is to hobknob with other rich people?

Why aren't you and your brother getting your father some help and paying for it? Wouldn't they be easier and way less stressful for everyone?

Do you go over and spend hours each week cleaning and getting groceries for her folks, if not why not? 

Why do you have more sympathy for your father's illness, which I'll guess was caused by smoking, than your wife and her illness? Your father is ill and needs everyone to help her with everything but you just want to know why your wife can't suck it up and put on lipstick. Seems kind of a big gap there between what you feel about them.


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## mariemount12 (Jun 12, 2016)

I stopped reading this whole thread once OP said "I want to own a Ferrari. It's in my 5 year plan".
I think you should divorce your wife, you sound like an immature loser lol. Let her move on and find a real man and who takes care of his wife and children and has more important goals in life.
My husband's 5 year goals would include setting up an RESP for our daughter's education and taking her to DisneyLand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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