# Very Curious



## Marische (Apr 30, 2016)

Why men cheat on their wives? _Emotional disconnection? Bad sex? Wife unattractive? What's the real reason men cheat? Did you ever cheat in your wife? Why? For how long? Did you ever though about leaving your wife to stay with your lover?_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

The answer is all of those, one of those, or any combination of them. As with anything in life, everybody's motivations are different.

I would venture a guess and say that the #1 reason anybody cheats is due to lack of self esteem, either chronically, or just at that point in their lives. Maybe the marriage isn't going so well, or your partner just isn't meeting your needs. Having an affair is a quick fix, whereas communication and working on the marriage is "hard". People often take the easy route in life, unfortunately.

Also, affairs are rarely about sex, and only sex. It's about all the things that come with it - interest in you, something new and exciting, the feelings one has when they meet somebody they have an interest in and vice versa, etc. Basically, everything that the beginning of your relationship with your spouse once was.

The closest I ever came to infidelity was during my first marriage, I had a one-sided EA with a friend of ours. She was also a co-worker of mine, which made contact with her very regular and often. At that time, I had no idea what an EA was (thanks, TAM!), and I can honestly say I never put the moves on her, nor insinuated that I had any interest in her, in that way. But I looked forward to seeing her, spending time with her, etc. I'd almost get excited at times, just like when you meet somebody new that you want to date. Oddly enough, I didn't have sexual fantasies about her, either. I think I viewed her as more than that. I didn't want to have sex with her, I wanted to be with her, be around her, spend time with her. I have no doubt that, had we known each other under different circumstances at that time, we would have been a great couple.

I say "one-sided", but I believe very strongly that she also felt the same way. A few months after my ex wife and I split up, she and I were talking a lot, and started spending time with each other, but nothing ever came of it. I think we were friends for too long and by that time, it would have been awkward. It WAS awkward. There was this air of tension when we hung out, almost like one of us was waiting for the other to make the first move, but both deathly afraid that we would ruin a friendship if we were wrong. But I'm positive the feelings were mutual.

Both of us were married to narcissistic jerks who cheated on us, and our marriages ended similarly (and within a few months of each other, too). We had a million things in common (music, upbringing, fathers died when we were young, love of animals, and too much more to list without me sounding too wistful...). I don't view her as "the one that got away" at all, but rather as "the one who wasn't meant to be".

And that's how people like this should be, if anything. Not AP's, not homewreckers. But some people can't help themselves and go for it if the opportunity arises, justifying their behaviour based on how their spouse treats them.


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## Marische (Apr 30, 2016)

alexm said:


> Also, affairs are rarely about sex, and only sex. It's about all the things that come with it - interest in you, something new and exciting, the feelings one has when they meet somebody they have an interest in and vice versa, etc. Basically, everything that the beginning of your relationship with your spouse once was.



Very interesting point of view.:nerd:


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ask a dozen wayward husbands and you'll get (at least) a dozen different answers.


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## Marische (Apr 30, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Ask a dozen wayward husbands and you'll get (at least) a dozen different answers.



:surprise: What's opinion on the subject? >0


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Marische said:


> :surprise: What's opinion on the subject? >0


The old saying goes "women cheat for love, men cheat for sex".

I think that's probably a pretty good general rule, though there will obviously be exceptions on both sides.

And if you're asking whether or not I've ever cheated on my wife, then no, I have not.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

My opinion from the stance as to why men cheat it is because they are cowards. When I asked myH why he cheated on me he said that he didn't feel the spark anymore, it all felt too routine. I then asked why he didn't talk to me about it instead of the avenue he took and he said he was scared.
I think when it comes to some issues (not all and by no means am I saying all men) men are scared to talk to their wives.
I think women cheat for an emotional connection they feel is lacking.
I think what @GusPolinski said is right there are probably many different reasons why spouses cheat but this is why mine did.



Sent from my iPhone


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

citygirl4344 said:


> My opinion from the stance as to why men cheat it is because they are cowards. When I asked myH why he cheated on me he said that he didn't feel the spark anymore, it all felt too routine. I then asked why he didn't talk to me about it instead of the avenue he took and he said he was scared.
> I think when it comes to some issues (not all and by no means am I saying all men) men are scared to talk to their wives.
> I think women cheat for an emotional connection they feel is lacking.
> I think what @GusPolinski said is right there are probably many different reasons why spouses cheat but this is why mine did.
> Sent from my iPhone


Right, so it sounds like he was cheating for an emotional connection.

I honestly don't think there are any differences between why men and women cheat. Either will do it for the same reason(s), and none are exclusive to either gender.

Feeling that spark again doesn't have anything to do with sex. It's that feeling of having somebody being interested in you again, paying attention to you, etc.

Yes, your husband was a coward, and took the easiest route possible, rather than communicate with you about how to get that spark back.

But women do this too. This isn't a gender-specific reason for infidelity.

One must be careful to not scapegoat an entire gender for faults each one shares. Here on TAM (as well as IRL), there are far too many people of either gender who blame the opposite sex for this, that or the other thing that may have happened to them (perhaps more than once). There are man-haters and women-haters out there, and that's unfair. It makes about as much sense as being racist. There are s***y people out there, and there are awesome people out there. But it's human nature to stereotype and scapegoat when bad things happen. "Most men are this" "Most women are that". Nah. Maybe just the ones you've come across.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

alexm said:


> Right, so it sounds like he was cheating for an emotional connection.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmm touché 
I'm just saying what happened in my case, from perspective. And for him it did end up being physical not emotional. He wanted some variance in routine. But that's not the issue at hand really.

Like I said I there are a number of different reasons why people..both men and women cheat. It seems in a lot of the cases I've seen around me it was emotional for the woman and the man it had more to do with sex itself.
But again there is no right or wrong answer here.

Just my opinion.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

GusPolinski said:


> The old saying goes "women cheat for love, men cheat for sex".
> 
> I think that's probably a pretty good general rule, though there will obviously be exceptions on both sides.


I respectfully disagree, Gus (even though you point out there are exceptions).

Sex - whether via infidelity, or with your spouse, girlfriend or some girl you picked up at a bar - is intrinsically about one's feelings first, even if one doesn't quite realize it, or admit it.

These feelings can be love, or they can be loneliness, a need to boost one's self-esteem, the urge to be desired, or even an ego-driven need to make a conquest. The reasons people have sex vary from person to person, and from moment to moment.

Unless someone is devoid of emotion (ie. a sociopath), there's a mental motivation to have sex in the first place.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Men leave because they are not happy. How they leave is a different question. Some have affairs emotional or physical. Some get wrapped up in their kids or their hobbies. Some walk away. 

When you are in that situation and someone tells you that no one else is responsible for your happiness, and that it all comes from inside. It makes the man feel very alone and worthless. It does not encourage working on the relationship. It encourages taking a very long walk.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

citygirl4344 said:


> Hmm touché
> I'm just saying what happened in my case, from perspective. And for him it did end up being physical not emotional. He wanted some variance in routine. But that's not the issue at hand really.
> 
> Like I said I there are a number of different reasons why people..both men and women cheat. It seems in a lot of the cases I've seen around me it was emotional for the woman and the man it had more to do with sex itself.
> ...


I get what you're saying. My ex wife also cheated on me, so I know what it feels like, too. And when all was said and done, her motivations were similar, if not the same, as your husbands. Needed to feel that spark again, blah blah blah.

What needs to be said is that men give and receive love/intimacy via sex. Typically women do in other ways. It doesn't make sense to many women, and it certainly makes us men look like we're only interested in one thing, but it's really not the case. Well, it is... but not for the reasons many think.

I want to have sex with my wife every day, but not just for the physical gratification. That certainly plays a part, but if that's the only motivation I may have on one particular day, I have no interest in having sex with her, I'll take care of the physical urge in other ways. In other words, if I'm horny but I'm PO'd at her, I don't want to have sex with her.

From her previous POV, I (and other men) are all about the sex, and just the physical aspect of it. It took years for me to reassure her that I have no interest in simply using her for that purpose. The reality is that this is how I feel the closest to my wife, and there are many many benefits to sex with her, other than just getting off.

So I get that it's easy to think that men only want sex, especially when it's via infidelity, but I assure you, it's more than that, and it's really no different than what women's motivations are.

I'd also like to point out that many betrayed spouses prefer to think of the affair as physical only, as that lessens the emotional impact for them. It's one thing to have sex with somebody you don't have an emotional connection to ("It meant nothing, it was just sex"), it's quite another to think that your spouse shared anything intimate with the OM/OW. It hurts less and it makes us feel better. Unfortunately, that's not the case. There's always an emotional component to it, even if two AP's only ever meet in a hotel room, have sex, and go home.

For various reasons, there are a lot of people out there who see sex as just sex (even with one's spouse). My wife was (or maybe still is) one of those people. They disconnect emotional or intimate feelings from the physical. That's usually from one's experiences. For the first several years of our relationship, sex with my wife was like having sex with a porn star (not that I ever complained!) But there was a noticeable lack of intimacy on her part. It's hard to describe. Her preference at that time, as she told me, was to get pounded. When we had sex, she wanted to be f*****, and not gently, and she'd verbally say so during. Honestly, it was pretty awesome. Over time though, it started to feel not quite right, I guess? Although she more than took care of me, and I certainly didn't feel used, there was a severe lack of emotion and intimacy in this area. It felt like she was doing it for me, like it was a show. Like "this is what men want, right?".

Over the last few years, there has been a noticeable uptick in that area, though. Perhaps because she's slowly come around to sex not just being purely physical. Or more likely, because she's realized that maybe that's not what I (or all men) want. Maybe she was just so used to doing things that she assumed men like in bed, or acted the way she thought we all want. She's more intimate these days, and less verbal, and I actually appreciate sex with her more. The physical aspect was better before, but now there's more of a connection with us during sex, and things are quite balanced at the moment, which is good IMO.

Hell, I've made assumptions about women and sex before, too. I was always under the impression that the longer a man can last, the better he was in bed. We're talking 10, 15, 20 minutes of pumping away. Stamina and staying power is masculine! Look how much I care about your pleasure! Turns out that my wife, in addition to not wanting me to pump away at for 10 minutes, also takes it personally if I don't get off in a certain amount of time. It turns her on to know that I'm so turned on by her that I don't last "forever". Hell, there have been times when I've finished in a minute or less (I always take care of her first, however) that she's clearly turned on by my excitement.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

alexm said:


> I respectfully disagree, Gus (even though you point out there are exceptions).
> 
> Sex - whether via infidelity, or with your spouse, girlfriend or some girl you picked up at a bar - is intrinsically about one's feelings first, even if one doesn't quite realize it, or admit it.
> 
> ...


Semantics.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

alexm said:


> I get what you're saying. My ex wife also cheated on me, so I know what it feels like, too. And when all was said and done, her motivations were similar, if not the same, as your husbands. Needed to feel that spark again, blah blah blah.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmm that is really interesting. I get what you are saying. I think though that there are other ways to have an intimate connection with your spouse. 

Even the act of communicating deeply about a subject for example. That gives a deeper connection over all and then adds to the intimacy you feel during sex. Everything is connected.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

GusPolinski said:


> Semantics.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In the grand scheme of things, yes. It doesn't really matter why somebody cheats.

But for the purposes of this thread, and the OP's original question, it's not semantics. I truly feel that people don't cheat (or even have sex, period, with their spouse, an AP or a stranger) simply for the sake of having sex. There's a whole host of motivating factors out there to have sex, and everybody has at least one when they do, IMO.

The physical aspect, the orgasm etc. certainly is present, and it may actually be the primary reason for somebody to have sex, but there will always be another reason attached, even if one doesn't quite see it. Loneliness, self-esteem or an ego boost are probably the most common. Just the need to be with somebody, period. That kind of thing.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

alexm said:


> In the grand scheme of things, yes. It doesn't really matter why somebody cheats.
> 
> But for the purposes of this thread, and the OP's original question, it's not semantics. I truly feel that people don't cheat (or even have sex, period, with their spouse, an AP or a stranger) simply for the sake of having sex. There's a whole host of motivating factors out there to have sex, and everybody has at least one when they do, IMO.
> 
> The physical aspect, the orgasm etc. certainly is present, and it may actually be the primary reason for somebody to have sex, but there will always be another reason attached, even if one doesn't quite see it. Loneliness, self-esteem or an ego boost are probably the most common. Just the need to be with somebody, period. That kind of thing.


You're missing the point.

When we do the things that we enjoy doing, it's because we enjoy the way that doing them makes us feel -- either WHILE doing them or afterward.

If sex were a purely mechanical function performed solely for the act of procreation then there would likely be far less of it. But it's not. There are tons of emotions tied to it, some more complex than others.

So take a guy (or gal) that cheats "just for sex". We accept that explanation on the surface, but we also understand that "just sex" is never _really_ "just sex".

Still, the phrase itself is accurate enough (and our collective understanding of it is complete enough) that it stands up to scrutiny.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> Men leave because they are not happy. How they leave is a different question. Some have affairs emotional or physical. Some get wrapped up in their kids or their hobbies. Some walk away.
> 
> When you are in that situation and someone tells you that no one else is responsible for your happiness, and that it all comes from inside. It makes the man feel very alone and worthless. It does not encourage working on the relationship. It encourages taking a very long walk.


Exactly - I'm very unhappy in my marriage, but have no desire to cheat. I devote my time to my kids and my business. No desire to walk away either - can't do that to the kids.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think people cheat because there is something important to them that they are not getting from their partner. Sex, respect, love, novelty, romance, adventure whatever.

Sometimes what is desired is completely unreasonable. Real women do not behave like porn stars - that is a acting for a fantasy. Real men are not brain surgeon, rocket scientist, martial arts experts, and certainly not sexy vampires who get sparkly in sunlight. 

Novelty is maybe the worst - you can't be "new" when you have been with someone for many years - anyone really desiring novelty shouldn't be in a long term relationship.

Along with the unreasonable expectations though are completely reasonable ones: Have you taken your spouse on a romantic date? Spent an evening giving them the most fantastic sex you can? Shown affection and love consistently? Or have you let your marriage turn into an endless series of chores?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> Men leave because they are not happy. How they leave is a different question. Some have affairs emotional or physical. Some get wrapped up in their kids or their hobbies. Some walk away.
> 
> When you are in that situation and someone tells you that no one else is responsible for your happiness, and that it all comes from inside. It makes the man feel very alone and worthless. It does not encourage working on the relationship. It encourages taking a very long walk.


I am not a man, but THIS!! This is how I feel right now...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

CatJayBird said:


> I am not a man, but THIS!! This is how I feel right now...


Is this not what both genders do, though? I can't see how this is a 'man-only' thing.

That's the only issue I have with any parts of this thread - that it seems as though many people think men and women cheat "differently" or for different reasons.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

I see no reason that there would be a difference, though I would suspect there would be more emotional reasons for the female than the man.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

simple
people cheat because they are selfish and lack sympathy.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Lack of sufficient mental development = inability to make sound decisions and to empathize = "needing" more = selfishness.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

While I didn't go "all the way" I went far enough to call it cheating. I did it because I was tired of our marriage and didn't care anymore. Selfish. I had finally decided that I would be happy and if my wife didn't care about me then why should I care about her. 

The kids prevented me from getting a divorce. Ultimately I realized my error, saw things for me to change, and hoped for the best that she would fulfill my needs as well. 

And there was cowardice. I'm glad that I was a coward, though, as a divorce paper summons on her desk would not have fixed anything but just sent us to opposite corners.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Tortdog said:


> While I didn't go "all the way" I went far enough to call it cheating. I did it because I was tired of our marriage and didn't care anymore. Selfish. I had finally decided that I would be happy and if my wife didn't care about me then why should I care about her.
> 
> The kids prevented me from getting a divorce. Ultimately I realized my error, saw things for me to change, and hoped for the best that she would fulfill my needs as well.
> 
> And there was cowardice. I'm glad that I was a coward, though, as a divorce paper summons on her desk would not have fixed anything but just sent us to opposite corners.


I get what you were feeling - as stated, I've never cheated nor do I plan to cheat, but I'm tired of the marriage and don't care anymore. Like you, thinking of the kids prevents me from proceeding with a divorce, and also like you, cowardice is a factor. Filing for divorce will just inflame things with the kids in the middle - I don't trust her not to say what an a-hole Daddy is to the kids if we get divorced. She's mentally a pre-teen, so all this would do is get a woman with a middle school maturity riled up, and I don't want the kids to see that.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

ChargingCharlie said:


> I get what you were feeling - as stated, I've never cheated nor do I plan to cheat, but I'm tired of the marriage and don't care anymore.


Honestly, I am torn. 99% of me wishes that I had never ventured out to understand what I was missing. But having "tested the waters" I discovered that there are better ways and that not all women are happy with sex a few times per year. 

But the pain that brings to someone you love... Just can't say it's ever worth it. However, nothing changed until the issue was forced and we both made changes. She would say the change was all me, but I have seen clear changes by her. 

Chicken or the egg.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

But if you are unhappy and disconnected and don't have any kids who aren't adults???
That is where I am. But I'm not a cheater (any more). I need too much in the way of emotional connection to be interested in FWB / fling / Quickie with deception. Now if there was a legitimate opportunity for a real relationship that would be another story. 
50 down 22 to go.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> But if you are unhappy and disconnected and don't have any kids who aren't adults???
> That is where I am. But I'm not a cheater (any more). I need too much in the way of emotional connection to be interested in FWB / fling / Quickie with deception. Now if there was a legitimate opportunity for a real relationship that would be another story.
> 50 down 22 to go.


Then I think know you fix it together or move on, honestly.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Marische said:


> Did you ever cheat in your wife?


Never even thought about cheating on my W. It is just not in me to do something as destructive as infidelity.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Tortdog said:


> Honestly, I am torn. 99% of me wishes that I had never ventured out to understand what I was missing. But having "tested the waters" I discovered that there are better ways and that not all women are happy with sex a few times per year.
> 
> But the pain that brings to someone you love... Just can't say it's ever worth it. However, nothing changed until the issue was forced and we both made changes. She would say the change was all me, but I have seen clear changes by her.
> 
> Chicken or the egg.


So things are better for you now? Did it take you realizing what you did to effect the change (meaning was the issue forced when you had your affair)?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I've gone far enough off topic. The OP asked why men Cheat because it doesn't make any sense to her. And a thinking rational (out of the fog) person would see that quickly. But then you get people with no hope, and a whole culture of cheating, and walking away and justification, to help them stay in the fog. And before you know it you are doing stupid things and hurting people. Some 20 years ago the marriage self help section featured a new book about cheating, that basically said that every woman needs an affair. Today there is "scientific evidence" that humans can't live monogamously. All of this providing ready excuses for the weak. I've made enough mistake. But not cheating is not the same as staying faithful.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

ChargingCharlie said:


> So things are better for you now? Did it take you realizing what you did to effect the change (meaning was the issue forced when you had your affair)?


What it forced were a couple of things. I came to the conclusion that I would rather go without sex than be without her. So deciding to stay became easier. 

On the second, she started telling me how I had treated her in the past and I saw gaps in myself that I recognized for the first time. In the past I felt that she was to blame thus justified my action to post on a computer, or to disregard her view, etc. As opposed to debating who is wrong I just started to make unilateral changes. Then I saw changes in her. 

Now there will come a time I believe when I need to see changes from her that she does not recognize. That will be when it gets hard.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Tortdog said:


> What it forced were a couple of things. I came to the conclusion that I would rather go without sex than be without her. So deciding to stay became easier.
> 
> On the second, she started telling me how I had treated her in the past and I saw gaps in myself that I recognized for the first time. In the past I felt that she was to blame thus justified my action to post on a computer, or to disregard her view, etc. As opposed to debating who is wrong I just started to make unilateral changes. Then I saw changes in her.
> 
> Now there will come a time I believe when I need to see changes from her that she does not recognize. That will be when it gets hard.


Very interesting - in my case, as awful as this sounds, I feel like I can do without her. That said, I know that I have issues that need to be resolved (mainly communication). For example, last night we were driving somewhere with the kids in the back watching a DVD and she dropped some cuss words about other drivers - told her to watch her mouth with the kids in the back, and her response was something along the lines that she didn't care as they'll learn from her how to use those words. I was furious, but bit my tongue as I didn't want to start a major blow up, especially as we were headed somewhere with the kids (not saying this is the correct way to handle this, it's just the way that I handle it).

Also believe that you can't ask someone to change if you don't change yourself - I want my wife to grow up and quit nagging me to death, but I also know that I need to open up more, which is easier said than done for me. Problem with this is that her attitude is that she's the way that she is, and if I don't like it, too bad. She acts like a 12 year old, and is proud of it, and if I don't like it, that's tough.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

That, @ChargingCharlie, is much like my wife. She likes the way that she is and doesn't want to change. But I have seen some changes. 

Just last night I decided that I was going to make her climax. She was reading a book and I told her that her climax the night before was not strong enough (she told me) and that I was going to fix that right now. She made clear that she had no interest. She later told me it was likely because she took 2 Zolofts the night before so couldn't get there. When I mentioned this morning that I spent the evening (couldn't sleep) researching the affect of Zoloft on sexual function and that I was looking at something to help she told me to stop thinking about sex and go to the SMART program to fix my sex addiction. 

That's an aside but quite honestly I do not believe I alphabet any form of a sex addiction and there is nothing wrong with a husband trying to make sure his wife has a full climax and sex 3 to 4 times a month hardly qualifies as "too much" I think know in any clinical book. 

Sigh...


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Tortdog said:


> That, @ChargingCharlie, is much like my wife. She likes the way that she is and doesn't want to change. But I have seen some changes.
> 
> Just last night I decided that I was going to make her climax. She was reading a book and I told her that her climax the night before was not strong enough (she told me) and that I was going to fix that right now. She made clear that she had no interest. She later told me it was likely because she took 2 Zolofts the night before so couldn't get there. When I mentioned this morning that I spent the evening (couldn't sleep) researching the affect of Zoloft on sexual function and that I was looking at something to help she told me to stop thinking about sex and go to the SMART program to fix my sex addiction.
> 
> ...


Yep, you're a sex addict for sure :scratchhead: I'm betting that you're several times a month is a chore to her as well. We've had sex five times in over five years, so I'm an addict as well. 

It's good that you've seen some changes - hope that I can say the same.


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

CatJayBird said:


> I am not a man, but THIS!! This is how I feel right now...




I think man or woman can feel like this.


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