# Personal grooming - non pervy!



## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

So that I'm hiding nothing, I'm a codependant, submissive who is married to a Narcissistic woman. As a result she labels me (to everyone) as a control freak!

She's had several what other TAM forum members have deemed emotional affairs, or at the very least relationships where she's been "chased" by other men (online, in pubs/clubs, etc). These EAs/relationships have boosted her ego/self-esteem massively! I also believe that she is now essentially addicted to that ego-boosting feeling!

Anyway, my topic of discussion, and I hope it not to be inappropriate - it certainly isn't my intention.

We've been together since late teenage years and early-on in our relationship I tried to convince my then GF now W to shave her pubic area. She always trimmed the edges, but no more. She was/is particularly concerned with her appearance in general, always shaved underarms, legs, etc - so it was just her pubic-preference that was different to mine!

After months/years of gentle persuasion, I gave up. Sometimes it may get reduced to a landing strip, but normally, the full bush.

Anyway, with timing in keeping with another of my threads "is it cheating" when she changed her circle of friends to a new bunch (largely made up of divorcees, single mothers and those in what can only be described as either open marriages or a very ignorant/blind/also cheating husbands) the pubic preference also changed. From one extreme to the other if you follow!

All of a sudden I was a very happy guy, and I was assured it was for me, it crossed my mind that maybe her new friends had discussed this and she learned that maybe a shaved look was not seen as pervy or fetish-ist thing, but hey, I was happy.

However, it soon became obvious that it wasn't always done for me. It was now her norm and whilst I appreciate she has every right to her own preference (particularly with something so personal), certain things began to bother me.

In particular was the ritual of always been "smooth" before being with her friends. If she was on a night/weekend away with the girls then there was an absolute need to be totally bold - normally a last minute shower and shave!

Even if I politely asked that it me left to grow (like most men I got bored of the one style and was quite happy to see a change every now and again), it would be shaved totally before a night out with the girls. Every now and again she's actually said somethings like "but I had to before such-and-such-a-night", then explain it away as a throw-away comment.

So, I'm wondering, why is it that my wife seems to include the need to groom somewhere that nobody else should see? Is it a normal thing for women to do? I've thought possibly her friends might mock her for not being the same as them or something when sharing bathroom/restroom time.

The way I see it, my wife likes me to shave my chest, but I don't do it before I go out!

Apologies if this thread is inappropriate or if anyone thinks I should have posted it under another of my threads.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

You already know what's right in front of you (so to speak), don't you.

You already know the answer.

Man up now, before she starts coming home from these 'parties' and demanding you to eat her out.


You'll get used to the new, slightly salty taste.


Eventually...



Edit: If you haven't already.


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

Hmm, well put.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

dayone said:


> you already know what's right in front of you (so to speak), don't you.
> 
> You already know the answer.
> 
> ...


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahah.....................................................


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Her new boyfriend likes it smooth down there.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Roller said:


> Apologies if this thread is inappropriate or if anyone thinks I should have posted it under another of my threads.


Nope, not inappropriate at all. Your concerns are spot-on.

I can tell you, I never shaved "down there" until I met my new partner.

My marriage was already falling apart (you can read my thread in my signature line -- blast me or congratulate me, your call. I've been both lambasted and applauded, not looking for affirmation).

Either way, I'm just sayin'...

Women don't just "suddenly start" shaving their twot because of their girlfriends' opinions...

Eyes open, be alert, pay attention...


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Nope, not inappropriate at all. Your concerns are spot-on.
> 
> I can tell you, I never shaved "down there" until I met my new partner.
> 
> ...


....................................................


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Nope, not inappropriate at all. Your concerns are spot-on.
> 
> I can tell you, I never shaved "down there" until I met my new partner.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your feedback, very much appreciated. I thought that maybe she did it initially to fit in, but since then, the timings have been red flags I think.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Oh sheezus Roller....

Did you grow up in a monastery? Why do you think she shaved? Not for you.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Roller said:


> Thanks for your feedback, very much appreciated. *I thought that maybe she did it initially to fit in*, but since then, the timings have been red flags I think.


Ummm... no. Just no.

She's not doing it to "fit in." I've been hanging out with girlfriends for years. Not one of my "girlfriends" has EVER asked to examine my twot to see if it's shaved or unshaved. (Ok, maybe if you're a lesbian, but I'm not and I presume she is not either).

Speaking from experience, she's shaving it because some guy is going to pleasure the daylights out of her in a way you never have... not trying to make you feel bad, just stating what I know to be the truth. I am not blaming you, just saying that new relationships = a whole new parameter of sex and sexual boundaries.

Shaving "down there", especially in the beginning, is a lot of work. Who is "benefitting" from all this "work"?


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> She's not doing it to "fit in."QUOTE]
> 
> Yes she is, she is going to fit in the OM.
> 
> ...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, that is not something we women do. But you very likely knew that already. You just keep hoping you're wrong so that you don't have to do anything. 

You're not wrong.


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Ummm... no. Just no.
> 
> She's not doing it to "fit in." I've been hanging out with girlfriends for years. Not one of my "girlfriends" has EVER asked to examine my twot to see if it's shaved or unshaved. (Ok, maybe if you're a lesbian, but I'm not and I presume she is not either).


Well now, here's the thing. As I mentioned, this all occurred when she started hanging out with new friends. One of those is a full-on sex-addict (from the outside anyway) and is one of her closest friends. 

They share beds when away on girly weekends (other women in the room, but if there's a double bed and someone has to share, it'll always be them). They've arranged a couple of nights away recently - just the two of them based around some excuse for partying and always stay in a double room.

I've never really given their relationship a second thought, other than I think the sex-addict is a bad influence, but hey, what can you do when you start having problems with your partner's friends?!

I've seen a load of txts, etc between them (following weightlifer's advice) but never any evidence of a lesbian relationship. But.....what if my W was tempted and wanted to appear attractive?!

Changes nothing, gay or straight, still the same situation, but I thought I'd share!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Roller said:


> Well now, here's the thing. As I mentioned, this all occurred when she started hanging out with new friends. One of those is a full-on sex-addict (from the outside anyway) and is one of her closest friends.
> 
> They share beds when away on girly weekends (other women in the room, but if there's a double bed and someone has to share, it'll always be them). They've arranged a couple of nights away recently - just the two of them based around some excuse for partying and always stay in a double room.
> 
> ...


If they're getting double rooms at a hotel they are most likely bringing men over from pubs for foursome action.

Your WW knows how to cover her tracks and keep you in check. No worries at all. She might as well not even be married.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Roselyn said:


> I am a woman. Women shave for their man. You know that already.


Or another woman who they are in love with 



Roller said:


> One of those is a full-on sex-addict (from the outside anyway) and is one of her closest friends.
> 
> They share beds when away on girly weekends (other women in the room, but if there's a double bed and someone has to share, it'll always be them).


Ok Roller, this is a horse of a different color.



Roller said:


> They've arranged a couple of nights away recently - *just the two of them based around some excuse *for partying and always stay in a double room.


This is WEIRD. I traveled for YEARS with GFs on girls' weekends... we ALWAYS get TWO queens when we could. And if we're ever in a King together, we're on opposite sides of the bed with all the extra hotel pillows between us.



Roller said:


> I've never really given their relationship a second thought, other than I think the sex-addict is a bad influence, but hey, what can you do when you start having problems with your partner's friends?!


You *should* give this another thought! Red flags are bouncing off the f*cking WALLS!!

Your wife is in love with her lesbian "sex-addict" friend who has convinced her shaving her twot is "hot". Or else, lesbian friend is condoning a "new" relationship between your wife and another man. Who knows? It could go either way.

What are you missing here? Roadrunner to hit you over the head with an "Acme" anvil?!?!

Your question..."what can you do when you start having problems with your partner's friends?!"

You tell her you're divorcing her for her lesbian love affair or affair with another man (after, of course, you've accumulated ALL evidence per weightlifter's advice (fellow TAMer who has seen it all):

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

Grow some b*lls Roller. You're in for a rough ride.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Women don't look at private parts of other women to see if they shave or not. I am a woman. Women shave for their man. You know that already. Your wife is having a physical relationship with a man who prefers her shaved. Sorry for the bad news...


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Roselyn said:


> Women don't look at private parts of other women to see if they shave or not. I am a woman. Women shave for their man. You know that already. Your wife is having a physical relationship with a man who prefers her shaved. Sorry for the bad news...


Couldn't have said this better if I tried. I tried, but it wasn't as good.


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Couldn't have said this better if I tried. I tried, but it wasn't as good.


Thank you both, genuinely appreciated. THANK YOU.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

The Beta is strong with one. Seriously though she is shaving for another man. And these so called girlie nights out weekends away could and probably do involve another man. 

As for her girlfriends, supposedly coming along you can bet your bottom dollar even if they are there they are covering for her.

VAR her car and a room in the house you believe she talks in GPS her car, and go through her phone bill. 

The truth is staring you right in the face.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

How do you know what type of room her and her sex addict friend get during their getaways? Have you seen the bill? Because she may be telling you they have separate beds but who knows?

I agree with the others- she's shaving for some guy. Or her and sex addict friend troll for guys while out, sex-addict friend reccomends a full shave before the night out, before bringing ONSs back to the room. Separate couples or all together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*



In particular was the ritual of always been "smooth" before being with her friends. If she was on a night/weekend away with the girls then there was an absolute need to be totally bold - normally a last minute shower and shave!

Click to expand...

* :wtf: 

Seriously?

That made me shudder.

That's... bad. Very bad indeed.

Non-pervy? Oh, dear me, no. This is pervy. Very pervy indeed.

You should see a solicitor ASAP.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

This is taking a pervy twist, eh?

Might as well treat that spurious, specious, twaticus with the respect it deserves. Mark those goosebumbs with your signature, and keep it in isolation.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to figure out that shaved pubic areas are almost always being fastidiously groomed for someone else's prurient pleasure.

If you don't believe me, my rich skanky XW will be happy to supply you with a confirmation!


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

how on earth does she explain to you why she has to shave before going out? i can see hopping in the shower to shave her legs or armpits if they need it and they'll be showing but her snatch? um, no.


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## Deni (Oct 23, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deni (Oct 23, 2014)

Deni said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/
> Ok maybe I don't go out much but I don't remember GNO when girls show each others V. It was never my priority to shave when I went out with girls. Unless its " action is suspected" (that being said expected) women don't pay much attention to it minutes before they leave the house. That being said, cheating aside , she wasn't willing to do that for you during your entire marriage (even though you nicely asked) but suddenly she would do it for other girls? what does that tell you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

Deni said:


> Deni said:
> 
> 
> > _Posted via Mobile Device_[/
> ...


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm want so hard to be supportive of you in your situation, roller, but it's like trying to support a wet noodle.

Mate, c'mon! Get  Get :soapbox: Get :2gunsfiring_v1:

Something. ANYTHING. 


Harsh analogy, but it seems to me that she's 'ladyscaping' before she goes out to GET.LAID, because to her it symbolizes removing the pu$$y from her life. Scraping him off and flushing him away, so she can go out and f*ck around without guilt or care. 

Because she knows that the pu$$y will just reappear. Over and over again. Like her pubic hair, she knows her pu$$y will always be there, no matter how many times she gets rid of it/him.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Roller, I just realized your story from your other thread now that I'm on my iPad. 

Her shaving is not good at all, no if and or butts about it. Whatever she has going on, and whoever she is doing it with, she is cheating on you. Her shaving is just red flag number 1,001.

How can you keep putting up with this? You deserve to be happy, And to be with someone who will make you happy. Don't settle for anything less.


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Her shaving is not good at all, no if and or butts about it. Whatever she has going on, and whoever she is doing it with, she is cheating on you. Her shaving is just red flag number 1,001.


My ex wife shaved all the time but she was doing it for a matter of personal grooming. My wife now shaved at times but always left a pouch around the main part of the Va-jay-jay. First time I saw her completely bald!!! Well I found out realy quick it was being used by AP to dry rub him self in between her legs. The dry rub part I still don't belive but what ever
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Inject some habanero pepper juice into the nozzle of her shaving cream.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Ok, others have already shown you the possible red flags of an affair. What have you done about it so far?

It's time for action, and that means putting your foot down. GNO's and girly vacations where you are not invited should not be happening. If she wanted that life, then she should not be married. Time for you to establish boundaries. And please, don't be afraid of being controlling. Its not controlling to protect your marriage. If she isn't in an affair, then she's extremely ripe for one. 

She has all these toxic friends who are not a friend of your marriage. Thing is, cheaters will not give up their toxic friends until busted on D-Day. Before that, she will play the "controlling" card. That's a standard cheater tactic, because they don't like you interfering with their affair.

And its time to install the computer monitoring software/keylogger on the computer. See the investigative thread for details.

From the tone of your posts, you seem to be very passive when it comes to her and she always gets what she wants. Otherwise she would not be disrespecting you and your marriage with all these GNO's and girly vacations. 

You have become only the provider/roommate to her. You know in your gut whats going on. I know I would never tolerate the sh!t that you're putting up with. Oh hell no!


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

commonsenseisn't said:


> Inject some habanero pepper juice into the nozzle of her shaving cream.


Haha, love it!:lol:


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

Guys I'm conscious that this thread is morphing into my other one "is it cheating", so I'm not replying to everyone's response to avoid confusion.

I may have made a mistake to start this as a separate thread, but thought that the topic was different enough for it to make more sense this way.

Basically I was asking whether it's normal for a woman to prepare bits of her that other men shouldn't see before going out/away with girly friends. 

I know that I've worded that last sentence in such a way that the obvious answer is "erm.....hell, no!" but I was thinking specifically about how "up for it women" may well discuss/compare/contrast as part of a drunken night out. Particularly so with, what is at least a very common British practice among women, of going to the bathroom (we'd call it the toilets!!) together - I'm not sure how common this is in other countries.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> Ok, others have already shown you the *possible red flags of an affair.*


Ditto,

I'll add when my FWW started cheating on me she began to groom the privates very close... sometimes completely clean. *She always had some excuse,* like bikini season, grey hair, or she wanted to surprise me. I remember thinking in 25 years she had never shaved, not once, anywhere near that close, if at all... hmmm?

It seemed like she would do this maybe once every few months or so, but not consistently and always a little different. What I didn't know was this was always a day or two before she would meet up with her AP. After DD, I asked her was this true. She admitted it was, all about trying to impress and be sexy.

Pretty common in reality... Just another page from the *Cheater's Scripted Handbook.*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Roller said:


> Guys I'm conscious that this thread is morphing into my other one "is it cheating", so I'm not replying to everyone's response to avoid confusion.
> 
> I may have made a mistake to start this as a separate thread, but thought that the topic was different enough for it to make more sense this way.
> 
> ...


They go to the toilet together, but not into the same stalls. There's no way they would flash their shaved pudenda at each other.

You must put a stop to this.

You need to get tested for STDs/HIV ASAP as goodness knows what she might have been up to.


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## Meli33 (Oct 16, 2014)

*Re: Re: Personal grooming - non pervy!*



Roller said:


> Guys I'm conscious that this thread is morphing into my other one "is it cheating", so I'm not replying to everyone's response to avoid confusion.
> 
> I may have made a mistake to start this as a separate thread, but thought that the topic was different enough for it to make more sense this way.
> 
> ...


Yes, my girlfriends and i always go to the toilets together. It's just so we can talk or my single girlfriends can talk about the men they are meeting and also to reapply our makeup etc.

No, i do not "groom" myself when i go out with the girls as i am married (and not trying to pick up). I wax when it needs to be done but also cause my hubby likes it too...


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Wow. 

Roller, are you sticking around for the smoking gun? 

What's it gonna take for you? How much is too much? What is your breaking point? How many red flags does it take?

You can't really be so naïve. You must know she's up to shenanigans.


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## Meli33 (Oct 16, 2014)

*Re: Re: Personal grooming - non pervy!*



tulsy said:


> Wow.
> 
> Roller, are you sticking around for the smoking gun?
> 
> ...


I agree with tulsy. Are you going to live the next 5, 10, 15 years like this. Questioning what you already know the answer to. 

YOLO......


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## Deni (Oct 23, 2014)

Roller said:


> Guys I'm conscious that this thread is morphing into my other one "is it cheating", so I'm not replying to everyone's response to avoid confusion.
> 
> I may have made a mistake to start this as a separate thread, but thought that the topic was different enough for it to make more sense this way.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deni (Oct 23, 2014)

Roller said:


> Guys I'm conscious that this thread is morphing into my other one "is it cheating", so I'm not replying to everyone's response to avoid confusion.
> 
> I may have made a mistake to start this as a separate thread, but thought that the topic was different enough for it to make more sense this way.
> 
> ...


I have lived in 2 different countries so I have gone to bathroom and toilets with girls but I don't ever remember being flashed with any V no matter how much we drank. That's just me though. 
I do understand why you are asking but based on your other thread her personal grooming is the least of your worry. I really feel for you and wish you all the luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks guys.

How much is too much - God only knows, I sure as hell don't! 

Am I sticking around for the smoking gun - Yes I suppose that I am. That gun being undeniable, proven PA I suppose. At the moment that's the only thing that I think will make me say enough is enough.

Problem is, this has been going on for years - like 8+ years. I see the red flags you guys are pointing out to me, but, and it might be denial, I'm not sure that anything physical is going on. I'm convinced things have gone on (kissing and maybe a bit more), but nothing provable.

I know that, if I were of sound mind, then this is enough, but right now, I need the proof and undeniable proof at that.

Frankly I'm amazed that one of her friends hasn't seen enough to say "stop, that's too far". She is FANTASTICLY GOOD at hiding it if something is going on!


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> I'm not sure how common this is in other countries.


I'm sure, like every betrayed or cheating spouse, if you keep asking you'll find one person to support your position.

Unless you or your wife lived, practiced and were fully immersed in that country's culture the commonality doesn't matter.

Stop trying to find excuses, either accept the codependency or do something to change the situation.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Roller said:


> Frankly I'm amazed that one of her friends hasn't seen enough to say "stop, that's too far".


In business they are called "yes men." I bet you never asked her WHY she changed friends. Now, you answered that Question.


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## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Dude this the thing!!! If your wife out off no were starts to groom down there it's most Likely for some one els. If your wife starts grooming her vajaja right before she goes out with her girl friends it's probably in hopes off having a big orgie with some guy with a 10# package and all off her girl friends. 


Dude you are looking for excuses to justify her behavior rather then admitting the truth. 

If you really want me to say what you want to hear then 

She is just grooming for you and the there is nothing to worry about 

Is that what you want to hear?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> They go to the toilet together, but not into the same stalls. There's no way they would flash their shaved pudenda at each other.


Dammit thanks for ruining my fantasy. This is what I always imagined what went on in the Ladies Room.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_So, I'm wondering, why is it that my wife seems to include the need to groom somewhere that nobody else should see?
_

-I think someone else is seeing it and that's why she's doing it..IMO of course.

_Is it a normal thing for women to do? _

I personally never did this.

_I've thought possibly her friends might mock her for not being the same as them or something when sharing bathroom/restroom time._

I never really had gf's who cared about my bush being trimmed or shaved.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_I thought that maybe she did it initially to fit in, _

What kind of gf's does you wife have if she needs to shave her vag-vag to fit it?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> They go to the toilet together, but not into the same stalls. There's no way they would flash their shaved pudenda at each other.
> .


Pudenda?


:rofl:


You've been reading too much Umberto Eco.


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

lovelyblue said:


> _I thought that maybe she did it initially to fit in, _
> 
> What kind of gf's does you wife have if she needs to shave her vag-vag to fit it?


Ones that have only one (or two if you include partying) thing on their minds! A night out with that lot is all about how much attention they get, it's the difference between a "great" night and a "it was dead" night.

When I do VERY occasionally go out with my friends or work colleagues, it's all about banter and having a laugh at eachother's expense, etc. With them (her friends), it's about getting very drunk, being very loud and drawing attention to themselves - that way they "appear to be a good laugh". That draws male attention and the night is often centered around that male attention.

Either putting the guy down for trying (if he's ugly) or getting all girly/giggly/flirty if the guy is good looking. It winds me up because they are happy enough to call a guy all sorts of names (such as a perv or drooler) if he's not "good enough" for them, but a "fit" guy could do exactly the same and be a hero!!

It's like being back in school - hence I mean "those" kinds of friends!!


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

If nothing else this thread taught me many new any exciting euphemisms for the cooch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Roller,
I have read your initial post on both threads and it all boils down to how you define cheating. Like driving. When you check the tire pressure, check the fluids, add gasoline, wash and wax, adjust the mirrors and the seat, crank it up, put it in gear and actually start moving. Is the driving the act of actually moving or does any of the preliminary stuff count? You have proof and knowledge of your wife doing most, if not all, of the "preliminary stuff" so do you need a picture of her behind the wheel going down the highway? I am sorry man but there is no reason to wax up the ride if you're not going to ride.


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## Meli33 (Oct 16, 2014)

*Re: Re: Personal grooming - non pervy!*



Roller said:


> Ones that have only one (or two if you include partying) thing on their minds! A night out with that lot is all about how much attention they get, it's the difference between a "great" night and a "it was dead" night.
> 
> When I do VERY occasionally go out with my friends or work colleagues, it's all about banter and having a laugh at eachother's expense, etc. With them (her friends), it's about getting very drunk, being very loud and drawing attention to themselves - that way they "appear to be a good laugh". That draws male attention and the night is often centered around that male attention.
> 
> ...


Jeez...... i remember acting like this in my early 20's... now... i wouldn't even dream of acting so immature. 

'Getting really drunk and then really loud' classy......


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

Meli33 said:


> Jeez...... i remember acting like this in my early 20's... now... i wouldn't even dream of acting so immature.
> 
> 'Getting really drunk and then really loud' classy......


Yep, same here, stopped being like that years ago, and I'd even go so far as to say that I'm still embarrassed about it!!

I grew up, she didn't. I try not to judge people in general, but if I were to, then I'd agree with your comments......real classy


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

NoChoice said:


> Roller,
> I have read your initial post on both threads and it all boils down to how you define cheating. Like driving. When you check the tire pressure, check the fluids, add gasoline, wash and wax, adjust the mirrors and the seat, crank it up, put it in gear and actually start moving. Is the driving the act of actually moving or does any of the preliminary stuff count? You have proof and knowledge of your wife doing most, if not all, of the "preliminary stuff" so do you need a picture of her behind the wheel going down the highway? I am sorry man but there is no reason to wax up the ride if you're not going to ride.


Great analogy. That said, there is such a thing as "show cars" - those cars prepared purely for the purpose of people looking at and admiring them. The owners enjoy the positive feedback and attention they get.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Sigh...

This is just one more piece of evidence, among many more obvious ones, that's she's cheating. Surely you didn't think we would frame it any differently.


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## DoveEnigma13 (Oct 31, 2013)

There are way too many red flags here.

If it hasn't gotten to her having sex with someone else (doubtful, it's probably happened) and you want to save your marriage, she's going to have to kick those toxic friends to the curb. It could be possible she's going bare from friends advice, but her friends advice after that is how great a black mans rooster feels, and how Hispanic men eat poontang like nobody else on the planet etc. They will turn her into a whoore on their level. It will happen if it hasn't already.

Man up. Kick her to the curb. Be the man another woman will shave bare for.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Pudenda?
> 
> 
> :rofl:
> ...


Hey! Help me, here, Bandit! I was just looking for a word that wouldn't get banned!:rofl:

Umberto Eco? Didn't he play for Athletic Madrid?:scratchhead:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Hey! Help me, here, Bandit! I was just looking for a word that wouldn't get banned!:rofl:
> 
> Umberto Eco? Didn't he play for Athletic Madrid?:scratchhead:


:rofl:

He's an Italian writer... He likes to use that word.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Roller said:


> Great analogy. That said, there is such a thing as "show cars" - those cars prepared purely for the purpose of people looking at and admiring them. The owners enjoy the positive feedback and attention they get.


Um....no. 

It's to making the dining experience more enjoyable.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh, dear.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Roller, you have been conditioned to accept violations of your boundaries to a severe degree. It's brutal to watch. We are all here sticking the key in the ignition trying to get your indentity/boundary engine started and we are getting a frump frump frump, then nothing. Then the next person says, "Here, let me try." frump frump.. nothing... on and on

There is a part missing in this engine, or fuel in the tank... oh wait... ANGER FUEL! "Hey you are violating me on so many levels... get the he!l out.

Boundaries : Psychological Boundaries | Healthy Boundaries

Glassman Psychological Services, LLC - The Importance of Boundaries

4 Secrets for Setting Rock-Solid Boundaries | World of Psychology

She is RAPING the safety of your body everytime she hooks up with someone. Cheating can be deadly. If I were in your shoes and had not decided to leave I would be making her take an STD test every time she came back home. She gaslights you, minimizes you, emasculates you, violates your loyalty, disrespects you deeply, etc etc... Find your anger... How can we help you find your anger?

Take this from someone who used to be in your shoes... I never got angry about ANYTHING and if I did it would take me days to get angry. I began watching those around me who had healthier anger responses and moved in that direction. They got angry for me first, then I got angry for myself. Now it's your turn.... tap Day One's anger, he is on top of this one.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

even if she's sharing a toilet with a friend, who gives a good godd*mn if there is some slight visible stubble? no one not touching it cares what it looks like. 
now ask her right out who she is shaving it for. if she says her friends she's either a liar or overly insecure about her appearance. 
my guess is someone is touching it and it's not one of her friends.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

cool12 said:


> even if she's sharing a toilet with a friend, who gives a good godd*mn if there is some slight visible stubble? no one not touching it cares what it looks like.
> now ask her right out who she is shaving it for. if she says her friends she's either a liar or overly insecure about her appearance.
> my guess is someone is touching it and it's not one of her friends.



:iagree: I like direct.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Roller said:


> Ones that have only one (or two if you include partying) thing on their minds! A night out with that lot is all about how much attention they get, it's the difference between a "great" night and a "it was dead" night.
> 
> When I do VERY occasionally go out with my friends or work colleagues, it's all about banter and having a laugh at eachother's expense, etc. With them (her friends), it's about getting very drunk, being very loud and drawing attention to themselves - that way they "appear to be a good laugh". That draws male attention and the night is often centered around that male attention.
> 
> ...


Roller...this entire post looks like HS to me. Further, married people I know do not go all flirty, shave the vixen, call guys names. 

It appears there are zero boundaries here.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Roller said:


> Guys I'm conscious that this thread is morphing into my other one "is it cheating", so I'm not replying to everyone's response to avoid confusion.
> 
> I may have made a mistake to start this as a separate thread, but thought that the topic was different enough for it to make more sense this way.
> 
> ...


No Roller...You're searching...PLEADING...PRAYING for any way that your wife isn't cheating on you....and you're not finding it.

You are in denial. You know the truth. You know what the situation is...but you keep denying it.

Not to be funny....don't think this....feel it from your gut...what is going on...how can you love her with what she's doing to you?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> :rofl:
> 
> He's an Italian writer... He likes to use that word.


And a very good one, too. The Name of the Rose. Must read that again, one day.

Back on topic, Roller... _please_...

Consult with a solicitor to protect your legal position


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Roller, this might need to got to Private.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

You cannot negotiate with reality Hon... but that is one stage to acceptance that you have a WW and you need to do something about it.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Not being nasty at all, but the real question isn't "if", it's "why do you take it like a true doormat?", sorry.

Whether it's her and her hyper-sexual friend together, or together with a 3rd person, or doubles, it is just right there in fron of your nose.

And they're all "great at hiding it", right up until that mistake where they get caught. You're paying attention, sort of, but not giving it any due diligence, and it will come out, sooner or later.

What will you do, then?
My bet is you will continue to take it. Good luck to you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2xloser said:


> Not being nasty at all, but the real question isn't "if", it's "why do you take it like a true doormat?", sorry.
> 
> Whether it's her and her hyper-sexual friend together, or together with a 3rd person, or doubles, it is just right there in fron of your nose.
> 
> ...


It's an unconscious psychological technique for dealing with stuff. It's called Cognitive dissonance, AKA "White Water Rafting on de Nile".


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Roller said:


> Great analogy. That said, there is such a thing as "show cars" - those cars prepared purely for the purpose of people looking at and admiring them. The owners enjoy the positive feedback and attention they get.


But Roller, most, if not all, show cars had the horse snot driven out of them before someone decided to restore them to their original beauty. Are you going to be the restorer? That's cool if you're into it.


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> Roller...this entire post looks like HS to me. Further, married people I know do not go all flirty, shave the vixen, call guys names.
> 
> It appears there are zero boundaries here.


Thanks, I'm pretty up to speed on the acronyms now, but HS?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Roller said:


> Thanks, I'm pretty up to speed on the acronyms now, but HS?


Horse... Poop?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Roller you are in the UK pm Matt I'm sure he is more than willing to help you in any way he can.
Bottom line is this is no way to live.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

HS=High School

And while I'm mostly staying out of your threads let me just throw this in:










And this:


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks, noted.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

Roller how are you doing?

I hope you're getting out of this situation-(with ur ww).I think that you deserve so much more for yourself.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Have a strategy

Make a plan

Stand up for yourself. Consequences are being steamrolled and picking up some nasty STDs eventually. Some can't be cured.

Read up on MMSLP. Now. Reject skanks.

GET OFF THE TRACKS!!!!


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