# Is it Possible



## SailingSoloAgain (Feb 5, 2012)

Has it ever happened that the ILYBINILWY was not about another man?


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## The Count (Aug 14, 2011)

SailingSoloAgain said:


> Has it ever happened that the ILYBINILWY was not about another man?


Possible, but highly unlikely. Women give that despicable little speech when they've lost physical attraction for you, and think the grass is greener with whoever it is that is funding their short term emotional delusions. 

It may not be a physical affair, but when that speech is given, they are giving it serious thought at the very least. By this point you're screwed. 

My advice based on personal experience would be to let them have it, and have the satisfaction of watching their life go to ****e as it invariably will when one bases their major life desicions on a short term fantasy. 

Hurts like hell at the time, endlessly satisfying after six months. Moths and candles my friend, moths and candles.


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## SailingSoloAgain (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks count. I waver back and forth believing it is sincere and she needs to reconnect with herself to not believing it.

She's been out of work for 3 years and told me some months ago she felt like she'd lost her identity and went to a counselor a few times.

I'd really like to get a woman's perspective on this if any read this post.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Woman here... 

I think it's possible to have those feelings and not another man involved. I think it's scary and natural to question the relationship on occasion and I have a few times in our 25+ yrs together... 

I think it's natural to worry about missing that flame, that feeling - that 'in love' feeling... especially if something else in our life may be missing too. When we were younger I had more of a conversation about it ... not really a speech. There wasn't another man involved, but I wasn't feeling that we were working on our relationship and I wanted something more from him/me. I wanted the connection and we had when we first dated. But we had got busy and disconnected. We would put more time into 'us.'

Years later we got lazy/complacent. The last time I mentioned something similar (not the ILYBNILWY) was a stupid threat that someone would want me if he doesn't (he has disconnected from me/us and of course I am to blame). There is no other man... I just wanted his attention and wasn't getting it. I was childish and said someone would want me if he doesn't. 

Not sure if this helps your situation... but there hasn't been another man... just times of my own questioning the relationship. I guess that sounds selfish now that I write it out.


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## nicole2011 (Jun 28, 2011)

Yes, it is possible. Im in that situation right now with my husband but there has been some verbal abuse included. My feelings has changed because of that and no other man is involved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadwithouthim (Dec 8, 2011)

My reply would be conclusive with mamatomany. No other man...
just lost myself in being a mom and wife....no other man ever involved....just a lack of my workaholic husbands attention for many years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

My stbxw claims there is not one else. I have asked her many times, even again this week. She firmly denies there has been and is not one else, not even an interest. However, what I know has interfered with our marriage has been her passion for her career and the next highs. Even her sister assured me there was no one else.

But you know... the good thing is I am slowly starting not to care and finding my own way through this mess, despite the backslides. Moving forward a bit more each day. 

Other man or not, I deserve someone who will love me back, be emotionally honest and authentic, and I am realizing that is not - and has not been - my wife. 

Best way I can put it... I miss and love my wife, but I don't miss and love the woman who left me. They are two very different people.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

@Canguy
I love your line "I miss and love my wife, but I don't miss and love the woman who left me. They are two very different people."

My head knows this, but my heart can't get there yet.


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## madaboutlove (Aug 28, 2011)

My H says there is no one else and so far there is no evidence that there is. He suffered some significant losses in his life, re-evaluating things and decided the marriage (and me) could go. But no other woman, at least not yet, and I got the IYBINILWY speech


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

mamatomany and nicole, I think all people in a LTR will experience that missing feeling of being in love at some point or another, but I am curious since you didn't have OM lined up, did you ever actually utter those words to your H: "I'm not in love with you"?

I think the act of saying ILYBINILWY is altogether a different issue from thinking it, one which corresponds so universally with infidelity.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Lon said:


> mamatomany and nicole, I think all people in a LTR will experience that missing feeling of being in love at some point or another, but I am curious since you didn't have OM lined up, did you ever actually utter those words to your H: "I'm not in love with you"?
> 
> I think the act of saying ILYBINILWY is altogether a different issue from thinking it, one which corresponds so universally with infidelity.


Yes, it was in a conversation and it was years and many children ago. I think I was re-evaluating things, lonely and when I told him this I don't think it was the end of the conversation ... it was more like I was lost and asking him to help me find my way again. I was worried the passion was gone 'the in love' feeling. I remember sitting on our bed while talking to him about it and we talked and I think we decided I was just going through something. He used to always help me out, help me find my way back to thinking clearly. He was so caring and understanding and help me find my way back. I was trying to think back to that time in our relationship when I said it, so I can be more specific but it all makes me so sad now. I think I was confused on what the "in love with you" meant ... going from an immature giddy feeling to a matured view at the time. We married young.


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## numbergirl (Feb 11, 2012)

mamatomany, I am in agreement. 

I have ILYBINILWY feelings and there is not OM. Its hard to see the good in this hard situation but it can be there, if people truly love one another.


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## sadwithouthim (Dec 8, 2011)

numbergirl said:


> mamatomany, I am in agreement.
> 
> I have ILYBINILWY feelings and there is not OM. Its hard to see the good in this hard situation but it can be there, if people truly love one another.


It just hurts when the love and hope seems to be one-sided.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

sadwithouthim said:


> It just hurts when the love and hope seems to be one-sided.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It sure does.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

numbergirl said:


> mamatomany, I am in agreement.
> 
> I have ILYBINILWY feelings and there is not OM. Its hard to see the good in this hard situation but it can be there, if people truly love one another.


I think sometimes we just _lose_ the feeling one of those _ups/downs_ that happen in a marriage (albeit a huge down for anyone going through it). You work through it and it can be better than it was. It takes both people to work though it. 

It's coming back to me... 
I am thinking it may have been 2001 that I felt like this ... it was before 9/11 and I had a lot going on in my life and I was confused. My older kids thought we were going to divorce then because I would have mysterious appts... I don't remember much about that year, but my kids and I were talking about it and my H says it was the worst year in our marriage. I sought out IC where she ended up trying to put a lot of blame on him and I would defend him (maybe that was her plan). In my head it was a horrible year for me at work... but the family remembers it differently. H was totally devastated that year and it took a few months of us working through things to start coming out of it.


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## SailingSoloAgain (Feb 5, 2012)

Wow. Thank you all for your responses, I really appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts.

Something very unsettling I think I've learned form the responses is that if it's dead, it's dead. It doesn't really matter how it died.

The possibility of resurrection depends entirely on the commitment of those involved. In the case of a third party being involved, you have the added complication of forgiving a serious transgression. But even without that, the chances of a reconciliation do not seem any higher. 

Let me know what you think of my 'theory'.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

SailingSoloAgain said:


> Wow. Thank you all for your responses, I really appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts.
> 
> Something very unsettling I think I've learned form the responses is that if it's dead, it's dead. It doesn't really matter how it died.
> 
> ...


Which part of your theory, dead is dead or the resurrection depends on the commitment of those involved? 

I don't believe dead is dead. Love is a choice. Deciding to allow love is a choice. Now the rest of it w/ taking true commitment on those involved... Oh yeah... nothing can be truer. 

I felt that we were not necessarily going to make it.... After my IC, we added 10 more years. We added three more children great children and some happy times to our lives. Now will we make it past this one, only time will tell and it's up to him this time. I am not "Done" he says he is. I have read and been told that people don't change that much that quickly so we will see... I have hopes that the man I love is somewhere in there. I just hope he isn't taken over by this new person. Don't get me wrong he can change I just want to be part of the change and make them positive changes for us both.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Read my story.

The feeling of "wanting to be married" died in my wife. She's such a pure and simple person, she would take ages to have another man in her life, but damn, she was set on getting divorced.

It took a world-shattering epiphany on my part and a whole lot of self-reflection on her part to realize that, f***** we can't live without each other.

In all honesty, of course we can live without each other. None of us believe in being "soul mates", but I personally showed her so much affection/love that she had no way out of it. I sometimes felt sorry for myself and her. I was obsessed with showing her love and she had absolutely no way of escaping it.

I didn't beg or ask her for anything. I simply filled her surroundings with signs of my love. She couldn't just ignore me anymore. She couldn't get angry because who the hell wants to reject kindness/affection (if they're normal).

Yes it's possible for someone to check-out of the marriage without having an affair, but unfortunately it's rare and the fact that it's rare makes it hard to justify making all the sacrifices needed to bring them back. You have to love them unconditionally (without expecting anything in return) and that's exactly what I had to do before she came back to earth and took pride in her marriage.


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## SailingSoloAgain (Feb 5, 2012)

Well I was really down in the dumps this morning. I started reading another 'fix your marriage' book and it was only about 20 pages in that it got into the seriousness and reasons behind ILYBNILWY (98% of the time according to Athol Kay). I started thinking bad thoughts, thinking her needing time on her own to think things through was a line of BS. I started looking for a PI.

She is out of town for a week at beach resort with a GF that owns a condo there. She's gone a number of times and I've trusted her completely. They're both photographers and they go on these picture taking safaris and come back a million pics. However, you can imagine how my imagination is running away with me this time. 

We went to MC last Tuesday and went out for coffee afterwards. I told her I knew she needed time and that I wouldn't bother her while she was away. I had written a speech about how I am sorry to the core of my being, for every bit of pain and unhappiness I've ever caused her. That I know we can't go back to where we were, but I'm confident that working together we can move forward to a new, more rewarding, supportive relationship that will last the rest of our lives. 

Knowing I wouldn't see her again till after V day, I gave her a a V day card saying 'Let's fall in love all over Again', and wrote some lengthy heartfelt things in it also. I wrote 'do not open till v day' on the envelope. 

I mentioned in another thread that Thursday I received a card in the mail from her, also saying do not open till V day. I am usually pretty good about doing that, I don't open birthday cards till my birthday, stuff like that. This morning my insecurity overwhelmed me and I opened it. Here's what it said:

Honey, first thank you for trying, for the incredible effort and deep thought you're putting into not only our marriage but into yourself. The other night having coffee with you was so nice.The simple things like that are what make the difference. I saw a light in your eyes I hadn't seen for so long!

This whole process has been so hard on both of us but I couldn't see any other way - You just wouldn't 'wake up'.

I truly don't know what the future will hold for us, but I know it will be better. I know you truly love me - and I know you love me enough to give me the time to heal from the hurt I allowed to build inside me. I'm praying so hard about this, praying for guidance and praying that God will help me do the right thing. I am thinking about you all day - every day. Also I know that that being apart this day will make us treasure more the days we are together.
Happy valentines day honey
Your wife
X

First, we aren't religious. Me none at all, she was somewhat when we met but has 'lapsed' for lack of a better term. When she left, she moved back in with her parents. They are what I would consider very religious southern baptists. In one of our get togethers she mentioned they had spent an evening discussing what her religion thinks of the situation. I didn't ask any details of that conversation.

While I find this note very encouraging, I am dying to text her and ask her to call. Other than the cards, we've had no communication of any kind for 5 days. First to confess I opened the card early,and so I can tell her that I love her, which may be overkill since I've written her some pretty heart-rending love letters since she's left. And that as hypocritical as it may be, I also am praying for her and our marriage.

Any thoughts on the advisability of texting, or any on her note?


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

SailingSoloAgain said:


> Well I was really down in the dumps this morning. I started reading another 'fix your marriage' book and it was only about 20 pages in that it got into the seriousness and reasons behind ILYBNILWY (98% of the time according to Athol Kay). I started thinking bad thoughts, thinking her needing time on her own to think things through was a line of BS. I started looking for a PI.
> 
> She is out of town for a week at beach resort with a GF that owns a condo there. She's gone a number of times and I've trusted her completely. They're both photographers and they go on these picture taking safaris and come back a million pics. However, you can imagine how my imagination is running away with me this time.
> 
> ...



First yay, hopes alive!! So happy for you. Time away seems to be doing great things for the two of you. 

Maybe you want to wait until V-day and then maybe text her... This way you have 2 solid days to come up with something to say. If you absolutely have to text her ... don't mention the card ... but wish her a good trip and many opportunities for beautiful photos or something or relaxing/enjoyable time w/ her GF. Of course I say that and my H is nowhere ready to come home or try to get help. 

I know it's pre-mature but I am happy for you hide the [email protected] book you were reading now!


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## nicole2011 (Jun 28, 2011)

Lon said:


> mamatomany and nicole, I think all people in a LTR will experience that missing feeling of being in love at some point or another, but I am curious since you didn't have OM lined up, did you ever actually utter those words to your H: "I'm not in love with you"?
> 
> I think the act of saying ILYBINILWY is altogether a different issue from thinking it, one which corresponds so universally with infidelity.


I never told him that. I told him my feelings had changed for him. It has been 4 months since I moved to my moms. I'm in the exact same spot as I was 4 months ago. Still undecided what I want to do. I dont miss him. We go out to dinner and it feels like friends. I dont see how its so easy for ppl to get a divorce. I don't want to hurt him plus not knowing what the future holds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

nicole2011 said:


> I never told him that. I told him my feelings had changed for him. It has been 4 months since I moved to my moms. I'm in the exact same spot as I was 4 months ago. Still undecided what I want to do. I dont miss him. We go out to dinner and it feels like friends. I dont see how its so easy for ppl to get a divorce. I don't want to hurt him plus not knowing what the future holds.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This sounds a lot like my current situation and my stbx's viewpoint. For me though, I think my own feelings have also changed to the extent that if my stbx did have a sudden change of heart, I'm really not sure I'd want her back at this point....and the longer it goes on, the less likely it will be IMHO. Even if we do at some point decide to give it another go, I think the relationship would have to be completely rebuilt and different....on both sides.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

worrieddad said:


> This sounds a lot like my current situation and my stbx's viewpoint. For me though, I think my own feelings have also changed to the extent that if my stbx did have a sudden change of heart, I'm really not sure I'd want her back at this point....and the longer it goes on, the less likely it will be IMHO. Even if we do at some point decide to give it another go, I think the relationship would have to be completely rebuilt and different....on both sides.


Both my H and I have played apart in our separation. We tried in house but his activities that he would not give (seemed deceptive but may be innocent) and feelings, treatment toward me were worse. I immediately sought IC, reading self-help books, trying... giving him space whatever he wanted ... he shifted out leaving w/o any agreements and I distrust him more than ever just because of his actions that seemed deceptive. HOWEVER I would still like to work on the marriage (he has little to no hope - but refuses to get help) I KNOW that it would never be the same but I have invested almost 3 decades in our relationship and it's time for a change and I would LOVE it if he wanted to REBUILD the marriage. 

It will never be the same because he left me and the kids and acted in a way that is _so out of character for him_... my security, trust, and everything has been tested. I have never been at such a personal low (and my kids ... don't even get me going on all the kids emotions I am constantly having to soothe our babies and our big kids). 

But I have read some great stories on here. I have read about infidelities, walkaways, addiction and other horrible things marriages have to deal with... and there are happy R stories. I think if two people want to get past something it's possible (not easy). I am not sure how long I can hold out... some days I think until the end of the month, end of the school year, but I don't really know. I know friends want me to move on if he won't make a solid step forward... time will tell. 

I don't think there's anything wrong w/ rebuilding a relationship... I hope it would make it stronger it sounds like many on here have done just that. 

Yes, today I woke up ready for anything...later this afternoon I may be ready to give up again.


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## SailingSoloAgain (Feb 5, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> First yay, hopes alive!! So happy for you. Time away seems to be doing great things for the two of you.
> 
> Maybe you want to wait until V-day and then maybe text her... This way you have 2 solid days to come up with something to say. If you absolutely have to text her ... don't mention the card ... but wish her a good trip and many opportunities for beautiful photos or something or relaxing/enjoyable time w/ her GF. Of course I say that and my H is nowhere ready to come home or try to get help.
> 
> I know it's pre-mature but I am happy for you hide the [email protected] book you were reading now!


I did end up texting her, wishing her a great trip. 

No reply ever came. I got crazy as I'm prone to do, wrote a drastic email with deadlines, accusations and ultimatums. Had the foresight to save as draft and think it over. This morning I was so relieved that I didn't send it. Felt like someone that tried to shoot themselves in the head and missed. Why do I do these stupid things?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

proudwidaddy said:


> @Canguy
> I love your line "I miss and love my wife, but I don't miss and love the woman who left me. They are two very different people."
> 
> My head knows this, but my heart can't get there yet.


I'm left wondering if they ARE the same person.


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## SailingSoloAgain (Feb 5, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> ...and I would LOVE it if he wanted to REBUILD the marriage.
> 
> It will never be the same because he left me and the kids and acted in a way that is _so out of character for him_... my security, trust, and everything has been tested. I have never been at such a personal low (and my kids ... don't even get me going on all the kids emotions I am constantly having to soothe our babies and our big kids).
> 
> ...


Mama, me and I'm sure many others on here wish you all the best, and continued strength. Not having any, I can't imagine how much children multiply the agony of these situations. While dealing your own issues, you manage to dole out very sage advice.

Yes, there are reconciliation stories here. The disconcerting thing about them is that the number of threads there are dwarfed by the number of threads on other topics.

I hope your day and night is filled with hope and strength.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

SailingSoloAgain said:


> I did end up texting her, wishing her a great trip.
> 
> No reply ever came. I got crazy as I'm prone to do, wrote a drastic email with deadlines, accusations and ultimatums. Had the foresight to save as draft and think it over. This morning I was so relieved that I didn't send it. Felt like someone that tried to shoot themselves in the head and missed. Why do I do these stupid things?


Glad you didn't send it. Remember if we have hopes to ever R we must use our head over our heart (most of the time) and rise above/be the better person (blah, blah, blah). If you kept it, file it somewhere so you can go back and reflect on what you were thinking on at that time.

I have been trying to give myself deadlines rather than him (something I can control). My example, I will not re-evaluate until Mar 1st, too much is going on and we both need time. 

Love the analogy and glad you didn't send. You two are making more progress just focus on that... work on yourself and hope she misses you while she is gone.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

SailingSoloAgain said:


> Mama, me and I'm sure many others on here wish you all the best, and continued strength. Not having any, I can't imagine how much children multiply the agony of these situations. While dealing your own issues, you manage to dole out very sage advice.
> 
> Yes, there are reconciliation stories here. The disconcerting thing about them is that the number of threads there are dwarfed by the number of threads on other topics.
> 
> I hope your day and night is filled with hope and strength.


Thank you, it's very kind of you to say. We are here to prop each other up and offer advice. I think I have read most threads in the last two or three months, I try to read those that I need at the time... happy, research (how did you handle it), and some I keep up with less. 

I think you have reason to have hope. She should have at least responded with a ty though... it would have been the nice thing to do.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I said it to my ex several years before I left him, and had known it for years before then. The problem was, it wasn't really true (I don't know when that thought occurred to me, however). I didn't love him--I loved the life we had created for our children. His issues had caused me to lose all affection for him, but I was just loathe to separate b/c of the kids. 

Sometimes I wish I had separated earlier--because I fear that my kids have learned that "marriage is loveless." But, you can only make the best decision given the information and conditions you have at the time.


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## cabbage65 (Feb 14, 2012)

Though very sad it's nice to have company with you guys in a very tough place. H has finally decided divorce is the solution after I insisted on an answer. i knew he checked out a long time ago but i always hoped, you know? i had to insist on an answer because he'd been saying he needed to move out again (we were separated a year ago) and i can't live in limbo any longer. it's too hard emotionally and physically. but it's so damned disappointing that this is his answer. i got the ily speech, and he even went beyond that, saying he never loved me. but there's no evidence of an affair and he denies it vehemently. i'm convinced then he's in fantasyland, that life will be so much better without me. i still can't believe it. we're married 20 years with a preteen son. it's so sad and makes me angry too, because he's had one foot out the door emotionally our whole marriage and now HE decides to leave? hearing his decision felt like the death of someone who has had a terminal illness for many many years. someone said it must be a relief to get an answer after so long, but it's certainly not.


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## SailingSoloAgain (Feb 5, 2012)

I got a text first thing this AM - "I love you and I'm not going to give up on us"
Texted back and forth a couple times but no conversation. We're going to talk tomorrow, I'll keep it light. So after a good morning on v day followed by a horrible night with my imagination having a field day, I'm again very hopeful.
Back again to the top of the rollercoaster...


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## SailingSoloAgain (Feb 5, 2012)

Update: She called, we talked, all very positive, very pro marriage, and very loving. She wanted to get together tonight. I have previous plans I can't break (a meetup group I organized that's having first get together tonight, mentioned in another thread). She asked if she could go "so that the other women there know that you're married". Big thanks to Athol Kay for some of his strategy suggestions. She also asked if it would be OK to "bring her toothbrush", a reference to a poorly timed email from me a couple weeks ago.

So she's coming over, we're going out, I'll be alpha male-ing the bejeezus out of a sizable group of people, and she's bringing her toothbrush.

I'm as happy as can be but no dummy so I'm at defcon 4 for now. 

It could be time to move my yammering over to the 'reconciliation stories' topic, we need a higher thread count there.


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## proudwidaddy (Dec 26, 2011)

@Sailing I'm so happy for you. I talked with my stbxw today and she basically attacked me for being the victim out of this, even though she initiated the divorce. Trying to justify everything. I don't even know who she is anymore. Oh well, I guess I just have to tell myself it will be her loss.


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

I got the ILYBNILWY speech years ago. Same thing but it was worded “I just don’t feel towards you like a wife should feel towards a husband.”

No EA’s or PA’s. 100% certain.

My wife had become a Stay at Home Mom to our son. Turns out she actually was suffering from depression. Later diagnosed with possible PTSD. Her regular doctor recommended she see someone, she did, and was prescribed anti-depressants. I honestly can’t remember if I got the speech before or after the meds. Sex life disappeared, at her direct request. She had gained weight, she cut her hair off, it was an ugly, dark time.

We did see a MC during that time. We saw him several times together, then he asked to see just her. She went to a couple of sessions. She made the comment in the car on evening, after I picked her up after a session with the counselor “Even the counselor thinks I’ve got another man.”

I did the usual stuff, ran around like an idiot, looked around every corner looking for the boogey man. It finally dawned on me one night, after coming home and wife got off the phone with one of her good friends.

“What the hell? When do all these people think I would have time for another man? I don’t anyone, much less another man.” Still remember that talk.

Friend of mine, whom I was really close to then, offered to check things out. He did. Nothing.

She never used the computer, not even email. (I’m an IT guy, I know. This was also more than 10 years ago. Facebook and other social media was pretty much non-existent.) She didn’t have a cell phone, I checked home phone records. Both neighbors were friends of mine, I would have known if someone came over while I was working….hell they came over to see who it was when a buddy from out of town visited and we left his car in the driveway.

After being dense for a long time, turns out the majority of the issue was her being a stay at home Mom. She had always worked full time outside of the home before. I pushed her to get a job. She did. It gradually got better, and after a year or so it was worlds better. That was part of my problem. I was comparing our relationship now to the worst time of all. The only thing I would say is lacking right now is frequency of sex and affection…and after just a few weeks of working on myself and not FOCUSING on her, that too has improved.

So it’s not always. There are exceptions. But coming from someone who went through it, I can’t say an affair wouldn’t have been easier than going through depression of a spouse.

When your spouse has an affair, at least you have someone to “focus blame” on. When there is no one else, and your spouse doesn’t want to be close to you, I think that can make it even harder.

Just my take.


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