# Ultimte Sucker



## disillusioned14

i have been encouraged by a friend to post my story here. 

I'm getting some pressure to reconcile with my wife of 23 years, but I just can't see it.

We dated for 3 years in college- got pregnant just before graduation- got married.

I worked 2 jobs for the first couple of years, she focused on our son and then our son and daughter.

I bought a store from the guy I was working my seocond job with. He wanted to retire. It took us about 5 years to get the house she wanted in the neighborhood she wanted for the kids, but we made it work.

I don't claim to be husband of the year material, but I always tried. I worked hard, spent time with her and the kids and tried to make the best life together that we could with our family. 

Our trouble started near the end of last summer- her younger sister was engaged for her second marriage to a friend of mine. We had set the two of them up and it seemed to work. About 2 weeks before the wedding we had parties planned for the engaged couple. I had a party for my friend at my house- my wife was having a party for her younger sister at another womans house.

My wife was always the "good girl" what a joke. She ended up blowing the guy who showed up at the party. She also arranged for him to be there and used money from our account to pay him. He's a freaking year or two older than our son and both of our kids are in college. 

She got busted because some of the women at the party were disgusted and rumors flew. She tried lying about everything to me.

I caught her lying and it was beyond awful. I moved out and am moving forward with a divorce. she has begged, pleaded promised to have told me everything... she had me believeing that I knew everything and then I find out that while she was preganant with our son, after we were married, she kissed an old boyfriend when she was "visiting" her parents. 

I've read enough to know that kissed could be a lie. It really doesn't matter even though i think that part may be true. I just can't believe that the person I invested my life with could do this and the times she looked me in the eye and lied without blinking have killed our marriage graveyard dead. 

She is begging and pleading, she has tried everything to convince me that she only wants me, she's offered me whatever I want in the bedroom and I'm just not interested any more. It is somehwat confusing to me as I have always been atrracted to her and have definitely been the one to pursue sex in our relationship, now she just isn't appealing. All I can think about is some other d-bags junk in her mouth and the never ending lies.

She has lost a bunch of weight to the point of looking sickly and doesn't leave the house for very much as best as I can tell. She did get a job and works online, I insisted on the job months ago. 

All I want is a fair divorce. I feel completely duped and our marriage is no longer special to me. I never thought this would happen, but I guess that no one does. 

The kids are raised. They support my position and yes they know most of the awful details. 

Am I wrong to not reconcile? It does seem weird to think about dating other women, but I am waiting for the divorce before I start that.

Anyone with experience on how long it will took for their spouse to accept the D process and to stop fighting it every step of the way?


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## Thound

You are not wrong. Me personally I belive til death do you part with the exception of infidelity. IMO you are justified on ending it. I would do just that if I were in your shoes. I cant stand a cheater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

How long ago did you find out about all this?

I think that you go with what you feel you need to do.


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## disillusioned14

Thanks Thound.

Ele- it was the end of last summer when it started- the party. The truth drug out over the next several months. The last thing I found was kissing the ex boyfriend in Feb.


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## alte Dame

There's no reason for you to reconcile this, in my opinion. You deserve to decide your own future and you don't owe her another chance if you don't want it yourself. Your children are grown and support you.

I will add that infidelity is like all human behavior in that it follows recognizable patterns. What that means is that you probably only know the tip of the iceberg. If she did that at a party, then that was unlikely to be just her second experience with unfaithfulness. What it also means is that when a betrayed spouse talks the way you do, then the marriage is really over.

So, I think you should follow your best instincts here and restart your life as a single man.


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## Tobyboy

alte Dame said:


> There's no reason for you to reconcile this, in my opinion. You deserve to decide your own future and you don't owe her another chance if you don't want it yourself. Your children are grown and support you.
> 
> I will add that infidelity is like all human behavior in that it follows recognizable patterns. What that means is that you probably only know the tip of the iceberg. If she did that at a party, then that was unlikely to be just her second experience with unfaithfulness. What it also means is that when a betrayed spouse talks the way you do, then the marriage is really over.
> 
> So, I think you should follow your best instincts here and restart your life as a single man.


Totally agree!!! Who knows how long she's been cheating!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## disillusioned14

Thanks- I thought about the additional cheating part especially since she planned for the guy to be therte although she swears she wasn't planning on actually oing anything with him. 

I think I know everything, but I thought that before and was wrong.

It really doesn't seem to matter to me in some ways because I just can't see my way way back to her. 

Ive read about other people still sleeping with their cheatinf spouse. I guess I'm defective because I just don't find her attractive anymore.


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## Roselyn

Divorce her. She has done more than this before. You have been humiliated enough. You deserve better than remain married to a skanky woman who brought you nothing but shame.


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## Mr.Fisty

You need to do what is best for you and leaves you mentally healthy in the end. She has shown a pattern of improper behavior, and it is most likely imbedded into her nature.

Your top priority is always going to be what is good for your well-being, and being in a marriage with her is not good for you. Everyone has a line in the sand and once crossed, it cannot be uncrossed. She has to live with the consequences of her actions and so does everyone around her. Actions have a rippling effect of those around them.

Good luck on moving on with your life, and take the time to heal. Some cannot appreciate what they have and risk a lot on something meaningless and transient in the scheme of things.


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## The Middleman

In my opinion, you are doing the right thing; I would do the same if I were in your situation. Make sure everyone, including you children, knows why you are divorcing, and don't spare the ugly details. Your kids need to know what their mother has become and is at fault for what happened.


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## 6301

Boils down to this. If you can't be comfortable with her under the same roof then end it. She cheated and has to live with her mistake and there's no reason for you to have to live it too.

Just end it and move on with your life. Your kids understand and if they feel OK with it then get a lawyer and end it.


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## EleGirl

How drunk was she when she did the guy at the party. It seems very odd to me that some woman would suddenly do something like this in front of her friends and family.


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## disillusioned14

Thanks all who have responded.

Ele- that has been discussed. She claims she was drinking heavily, but she has not been a heavy drinker. howevber, she came home after the party- around 130am or so. I was still up and we spoke. She was not wasted drunk.

I just don't feel good about staying in the marriage. It used to be very special to me and now just seems like a cruel joke that I want to end.


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## jim123

Drinking is not an excuse. It does not make you do something you are opposed to.

Just tell her this is what you need to heal.


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## Chas

Every person in a marriage has their own boundaries that are deal breakers. If their spouse goes outside those boundaries and you feel the marriage is broken then you divorce. You don't have to get conformation from others because it is your marriage, your rules.

On the other hand, this forum has seen many infidelities that were much worse and the couple reconciled to live a happy life. Whether that can occur with a WS depends greatly on their perception of what marriage is to them and their understanding of their spouses mentality. Your wives infidelity has caused you to lose all respect for her and you no longer find her attractive do the the mental aspects and that is understandable.

Something I think you should consider is that only you have posted here with one side of the story and it is rare that a poster gives enough information to fully assess the other spouse. Based on what I've seen on the internet it appears that you wife got caught up in the moment and did something crazy that she would not normally do (I suspect others blew him also). It also "appears" she is very remorseful, thus she decided to come clean about kissing the other man.
These two events are grounds for divorce but do not paint a picture of her being a "skanky woman" and I don't believe you should destroy her reputation by exposing her to the world. Certainly she has done some good things in 23 years that would offset the bad she's done. Being divorced should be enough.


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## Openminded

Cheaters often have trouble comprehending their actions have consequences. Tell her you're done and you aren't changing your mind. Keep repeating that. And file ASAP so you can move on.


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## ThePheonix

As said, this wasn't her first rodeo. I've been the guy at the party and can assure you the women that display this type activity in front of an audience, including family and friends, are loose as a goose. Hell Dawg, I'd hate to see what she'd done in private.


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## Wolfman1968

If you feel that you don't want to stay in the marriage after her cheating, don't let anyone talk you into thinking otherwise.

Marriage is hard enough for two people who both want to make it work. It won't work if you don't want to be there.


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## bandit.45

Forgive me for being confused, but was this guy a stripper that your wife hired or just some guy she knew who agreed to be the man-meat for the night? Did she blow him in front of the whole crowd of women? I ask because I wonder how many of the other women did so too.


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## MattMatt

Chas said:


> Every person in a marriage has their own boundaries that are deal breakers. If their spouse goes outside those boundaries and you feel the marriage is broken then you divorce. You don't have to get conformation from others because it is your marriage, your rules.
> 
> On the other hand, this forum has seen many infidelities that were much worse and the couple reconciled to live a happy life. Whether that can occur with a WS depends greatly on their perception of what marriage is to them and their understanding of their spouses mentality. Your wives infidelity has caused you to lose all respect for her and you no longer find her attractive do the the mental aspects and that is understandable.
> 
> Something I think you should consider is that only you have posted here with one side of the story and it is rare that a poster gives enough information to fully assess the other spouse. Based on what I've seen on the internet it appears that you wife got caught up in the moment and did something crazy that she would not normally do (I suspect others blew him also). It also "appears" she is very remorseful, thus she decided to come clean about kissing the other man.
> These two events are grounds for divorce but do not paint a picture of her being a "skanky woman" and I don't believe you should destroy her reputation by exposing her to the world. Certainly she has done some good things in 23 years that would offset the bad she's done. Being divorced should be enough.


Chas, she has already outed herself by committing an act of oral sex on another man before witnesses.
OP, it is your call.

You can't reconcile with her, then why should you.

Might be worth DNA tests on your adult children. To emphasise to her that you cannot trust her and that reconciliation is not possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chas

Matt, I realize it was an open act but I see no need for her husband to go around telling everyone that doesn't know already, she blew a stripper. The information may be just shared between those at the party People screw up and if they're remorseful I don't think it's right for a spouse to try and destroy their life for revenge. They are both still parents to the children, even if they're adults, and if I caught me dad telling the story to everyone I'd kick his a$$. That act should be reserved for the truly bad affairs.


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## honcho

disillusioned14 said:


> i have been encouraged by a friend to post my story here.
> 
> I'm getting some pressure to reconcile with my wife of 23 years, but I just can't see it.
> 
> We dated for 3 years in college- got pregnant just before graduation- got married.
> 
> I worked 2 jobs for the first couple of years, she focused on our son and then our son and daughter.
> 
> I bought a store from the guy I was working my seocond job with. He wanted to retire. It took us about 5 years to get the house she wanted in the neighborhood she wanted for the kids, but we made it work.
> 
> I don't claim to be husband of the year material, but I always tried. I worked hard, spent time with her and the kids and tried to make the best life together that we could with our family.
> 
> Our trouble started near the end of last summer- her younger sister was engaged for her second marriage to a friend of mine. We had set the two of them up and it seemed to work. About 2 weeks before the wedding we had parties planned for the engaged couple. I had a party for my friend at my house- my wife was having a party for her younger sister at another womans house.
> 
> My wife was always the "good girl" what a joke. She ended up blowing the guy who showed up at the party. She also arranged for him to be there and used money from our account to pay him. He's a freaking year or two older than our son and both of our kids are in college.
> 
> She got busted because some of the women at the party were disgusted and rumors flew. She tried lying about everything to me.
> 
> I caught her lying and it was beyond awful. I moved out and am moving forward with a divorce. she has begged, pleaded promised to have told me everything... she had me believeing that I knew everything and then I find out that while she was preganant with our son, after we were married, she kissed an old boyfriend when she was "visiting" her parents.
> 
> I've read enough to know that kissed could be a lie. It really doesn't matter even though i think that part may be true. I just can't believe that the person I invested my life with could do this and the times she looked me in the eye and lied without blinking have killed our marriage graveyard dead.
> 
> She is begging and pleading, she has tried everything to convince me that she only wants me, she's offered me whatever I want in the bedroom and I'm just not interested any more. It is somehwat confusing to me as I have always been atrracted to her and have definitely been the one to pursue sex in our relationship, now she just isn't appealing. All I can think about is some other d-bags junk in her mouth and the never ending lies.
> 
> She has lost a bunch of weight to the point of looking sickly and doesn't leave the house for very much as best as I can tell. She did get a job and works online, I insisted on the job months ago.
> 
> All I want is a fair divorce. I feel completely duped and our marriage is no longer special to me. I never thought this would happen, but I guess that no one does.
> 
> The kids are raised. They support my position and yes they know most of the awful details.
> 
> Am I wrong to not reconcile? It does seem weird to think about dating other women, but I am waiting for the divorce before I start that.
> 
> Anyone with experience on how long it will took for their spouse to accept the D process and to stop fighting it every step of the way?


To answer your question she could very well never accept the D process and fight you every step of the way. It really means little. If you want a divorce you will get it. Divorce court is designed to get you divorced. Divorce lawyers work to get divorce done. She can fight and make it expensive but you will get divorced if you want it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yeswecan

The act she performed is enough in my mind to call an end to the marriage. Yes, I'm sure there was a lot of good times and great things she has done as your W but that night she ended the roll as W. It appears you are not wanting to reconcile and I do not blame you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

I think you need to trust your gut. I'm not surprised she's begging, she threw her life away so she could blow a dude her son's age. She can't have a future with him and her life as she knew it is over. Probably didn't think you'd find out and figured it could be worked out with begging if you did. It's a high price. 

But I understand your thoughts, I suspect I'd feel the same way. If you don't feel like you can move forward then pursue a divorce. You can revisit things later if you want, and there might be value in seeing how fair she is in the divorce. She'll show you who she is.

Remember that there are two distinct issues here: her life with you and her relationship with you and the two are exclusive. Very likely the first is really what's on her mind. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

I think if both of you got counseling and marriage counseling you could save the marriage/family. Many many folks here have gone through much worse and made a better marriage than they had before. Another downside to divorce we have seen here is suicide and suicide attempts. It sounds like your wife is taking this particularly hard.

There are questions though about her personality. Is she a go along to getvalong type? You say she is not a drinker but says she got very drunk that night. Some of these parties have many women blowing and fondling the male stripper. Did she follow others lead?

How did she know how to arrange for a male stripper?

Does she go out drinking with her friends without you?

Has she been to male strip clubs or Vegas with out you?

On the surface it seems odd it she do this without previous experience. OTOH, it seems out of character for her to do something so stupid in front of other people without the other parties egging each other on.

Is the punishment you're meting out deserved considering the relationship you had over the last 23 years? Are there other issues?


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## RWB

The Old... *"Yep, my wife blew the Stripper Dude at the bachelorette party." *

Believe it or not, this kind of sh!t really does go on. Regardless of whether she is a "_career_" cheater, if you have made up your mind to D, stop digging, stop analyzing, stop trying to _"figure it out_". Work on *you* getting better (healing).

If you do attempt to R (seems your still riding the fence), your looking at years of mental gymnastics. BTW, your search for the "_truth_" is really just starting be prepared for uncovering the unbelievable. 

Regardless, D or R, that marriage you have busted your ass for 25 years to build is gone like freight train.


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## GusPolinski

alte Dame said:


> There's no reason for you to reconcile this, in my opinion. You deserve to decide your own future and you don't owe her another chance if you don't want it yourself. Your children are grown and support you.
> 
> *I will add that infidelity is like all human behavior in that it follows recognizable patterns. What that means is that you probably only know the tip of the iceberg. If she did that at a party, then that was unlikely to be just her second experience with unfaithfulness.* What it also means is that when a betrayed spouse talks the way you do, then the marriage is really over.
> 
> So, I think you should follow your best instincts here and restart your life as a single man.


:iagree: x 100

Arranging to have her boytoy (and did I read that correctly... she _paid_ him?) show up at a party w/ other people present for their tryst is pretty brazen, and indicates a pretty high degree of comfort w/ respect to committing infidelity. My read is that she's been doing this for YEARS.

And about this...?



disillusioned14 said:


> ...and then I find out that while she was preganant with our son, after we were married, she kissed an old boyfriend when she was "visiting" her parents.


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## MattMatt

GusPolinski said:


> :iagree: x 100
> 
> Arranging to have her boytoy (and did I read that correctly... she _paid_ him?) show up at a party w/ other people present for their tryst is pretty brazen, and indicates a pretty high degree of comfort w/ respect to committing infidelity. My read is that she's been doing this for YEARS.
> 
> And about this...?


I agree, Gus. However... If that is what she does in front of witnesses, what on EARTH does she do when there are no witnesses? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

MattMatt said:


> I agree, Gus. However... If that is what she does in front of witnesses, what on EARTH does she do when there are no witnesses?


That's kinda the point.


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## MattMatt

GusPolinski said:


> That's kinda the point.


Yes, it certainly is. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kenmoore14217

When we get married we are marrying the most faithful, beautiful confidant in our life, more so than our Mother or Father. Those other guys, yes some of them married slvts or hoes but not us, we married princesses. And then, when we discover that the person we married and entrusted with all of our secrets and personal affairs is "sour", bad fruit, it is indeed devastating and not recoverable. Hope you recover quickly.


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## disillusioned14

Thanks again everyone.

I'll try to answer all the questions.


Yes, my wife hired him. He is a stripper and is almost the same age as our son. She took money in smaller increments out of our checking account to come up with the money needed to pay him. this tells me it was not an accident, she planned this part. 

She claims that everyone was going to help pitch in to cover the cost but no one did. Then the story changed to she thought everyone would want to contribute and no one did. She said she got his name from a friend of a the woman who had the party at her house.

She claims she wasnt the only one to fondle the guy or end up with his **** in her mouth. But shes the only one I am married to. There were 11 women there. My wife claims to have been drinking and got caught up in the party. She claims to be very ashamed now. 

Some of the women left when things got nasty. Unfortunately instead of leaving my wife participated. 

My wife was never one to go out partying without me, there were no Vegas trips or strip club visits, at least none I know of.

Does it seem out of character, yes. Do I think I know everything now, yes. But how can you ever be sure. The lies stretched on for months and she would have never told me anything if i wasn't clued in and pressing her and snooping.

I understand the DNA suggestion for young children when child support may be an issue and appreciate that but my kids are grown. I am struggling to see how that would help any of us at this point. I don't want to send the message to my adult kids that I don't want to be their dad anymore. Does that make sense? Am i missing something there? 

The trust is gone, the specialness that was our marriage is gone, and the attraction I had for here is gone.


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## whatslovegottodowithit?

Another way to answer this may be: What would you counsel your children to do if this happened to them? If you stay, (totally your choice guy) I believe you send the wrong message to your children.


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## Yeswecan

disillusioned14 said:


> Thanks again everyone.
> 
> I'll try to answer all the questions.
> 
> 
> Yes, my wife hired him. He is a stripper and is almost the same age as our son. She took money in smaller increments out of our checking account to come up with the money needed to pay him. this tells me it was not an accident, she planned this part.
> 
> She claims that everyone was going to help pitch in to cover the cost but no one did. Then the story changed to she thought everyone would want to contribute and no one did. She said she got his name from a friend of a the woman who had the party at her house.
> 
> She claims she wasnt the only one to fondle the guy or end up with his **** in her mouth. But shes the only one I am married to. There were 11 women there. My wife claims to have been drinking and got caught up in the party. She claims to be very ashamed now.
> 
> Some of the women left when things got nasty. Unfortunately instead of leaving my wife participated.
> 
> My wife was never one to go out partying without me, there were no Vegas trips or strip club visits, at least none I know of.
> 
> Does it seem out of character, yes. Do I think I know everything now, yes. But how can you ever be sure. *The lies stretched on for months and she would have never told me anything if i wasn't clued in and pressing her and snooping.*
> 
> I understand the DNA suggestion for young children when child support may be an issue and appreciate that but my kids are grown. I am struggling to see how that would help any of us at this point. I don't want to send the message to my adult kids that I don't want to be their dad anymore. Does that make sense? Am i missing something there?
> 
> The trust is gone, the specialness that was our marriage is gone, and the attraction I had for here is gone.


And this is the largest problem of them all. The lies and deception. It was all planned. Including blowing the stripper. You were supposed to non-the-wiser. Simply put...not very conducive to reconciliation.


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## Chaparral

Under the circumstances, few people wouldn't lie when they realized the truth was sure to send their marriage over the cliff.

Sorry for you both and prayers for your family.

Good luck


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## Thound

Not that it matters, bbbuutttt, how many BJs have you ever got from her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J.

It makes no sense to me for her to do this at a party with a *load of other women watching*......unless the guy did it in private with 2/3 of them
You intimate its so out of character and to me that's why it doesn't make sense
Must be more to this ?


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## GusPolinski

I'd like everyone to know how very difficult it's been for me to NOT make a joke involving OP's WW and the title of this thread.


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## x598

> Under the circumstances, few people wouldn't lie when they realized the truth was sure to send their marriage over the cliff.
> 
> Sorry for you both and prayers for your family.
> 
> Good luck


:iagree:

OP...i know and understand the hurt and feeling of betrayal you are feeling. you have every right to divorce if you wish.

now, i am not sticking up for your wife, but i am not going to so quickly and ruthlessly throw her under the bus as many other hurt and frustrated posters will do/have done.

I really think you need to look at your relationship in its totality. you had many years together....it sounds as if this was more of a one night stand kind of thing and not something that was a long drawn on things. I could be wrong. trust your gut on this, just make sure you are doing so with a clear mind and not one jaded from the hurt you currently have.

You painted a wonderful picture of yourself. hard working, loyal, etc etc. but nobody is perfect. read all the threads here where people claimed to have been a good spouse and were blindsided by affairs and so forth. the point is, i would bet something WAS missing from your marriage.

you claim your wife is distraught and withering away. do you have any idea how many broken spouses here would kill to see that? you claim she trickle truthed you and i believe that, but like the other poster pointed out, its natural given the thought that the truth would make matters worse.

please do not misunderstand me for excusing her behavior or advising you to get past it. that's not what i am saying. all i am saying is that now is a serious time to evaluate if your wife really believes deeply that she screwed up royally and will change and be a better person because of it. if that is the case, you need to learn to forgive (not forget) and move past it. 

when we are "wronged" it becomes very easy to get on a podium and pass judgment. ever forget her birthday, or anniversary, or do some other thing that, while trivial to you, was important to her? only to then excuse it as "busy and work" and you are human and forgot? while it isn't as egregious as a blow job.....sometimes little things can have much larger impact than we realize.

its already been said that people have have successfully gone on to a better marriage after much worse events than this. consider yourself lucky it was a momentary lack of judgment (maybe, you need to find that out) and maybe some empathy will save you a lot of pain on the road to come. it might even take you to a better place.

good luck.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Loosing a marriage over two decades for a blowjob and that too with a stripper guy.....

How can she be this much foolish?

But one up vote for giving her another chance as she is very remorseful.


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## convert

Thound said:


> Not that it matters, bbbuutttt, how many BJs have you ever got from her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To some this would matter, especially if the BS never got any. or if she hates giving BJ and only does it with husband on very rare occasions, but she goes down on a stranger in one night after only few minutes of meeting him?

another question(s) that may not matter, but did she do the deed to completion?
did she come home that night and kiss you?


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## MattMatt

Chas said:


> Matt, I realize it was an open act but I see no need for her husband to go around telling everyone that doesn't know already, she blew a stripper. The information may be just shared between those at the party People screw up and if they're remorseful I don't think it's right for a spouse to try and destroy their life for revenge. They are both still parents to the children, even if they're adults, and if I caught me dad telling the story to everyone I'd kick his a$$. That act should be reserved for the truly bad affairs.


So if someone was so broken by their spouse's disgustingly public and humiliating act of infidelity, you'd recommend violence against the betrayed spouse? :wtf: Seriously?

And exactly what would you call a "truly bad affair?"

I'd call arranging to perform an act of oral sex on someone you aren't married to in front of witnesses known to both the WS and the BS a "truly bad affair."


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## MattMatt

disillusioned14 said:


> Thanks again everyone.
> 
> I'll try to answer all the questions.
> 
> 
> Yes, my wife hired him. He is a stripper and is almost the same age as our son. She took money in smaller increments out of our checking account to come up with the money needed to pay him. this tells me it was not an accident, she planned this part.
> 
> She claims that everyone was going to help pitch in to cover the cost but no one did. Then the story changed to she thought everyone would want to contribute and no one did. She said she got his name from a friend of a the woman who had the party at her house.
> 
> She claims she wasnt the only one to fondle the guy or end up with his **** in her mouth. But shes the only one I am married to. There were 11 women there. My wife claims to have been drinking and got caught up in the party. She claims to be very ashamed now.
> 
> Some of the women left when things got nasty. Unfortunately instead of leaving my wife participated.
> 
> My wife was never one to go out partying without me, there were no Vegas trips or strip club visits, at least none I know of.
> 
> Does it seem out of character, yes. Do I think I know everything now, yes. But how can you ever be sure. The lies stretched on for months and she would have never told me anything if i wasn't clued in and pressing her and snooping.
> 
> I understand the DNA suggestion for young children when child support may be an issue and appreciate that but my kids are grown. I am struggling to see how that would help any of us at this point. I don't want to send the message to my adult kids that I don't want to be their dad anymore. Does that make sense? Am i missing something there?
> 
> The trust is gone, the specialness that was our marriage is gone, and the attraction I had for here is gone.


A DNA test checks for paternity but it also does something else.

It sends your wife a message*: "Now see what you did? I can't trust anything you ever said or did throughout our whole marriage! You say this was out of character? But how do I know that? You have spoilt every memory of all the times we spent together. Because now, well, now all I can think of is you planning over a period of months to cheat on me and stealing money from the family account to hire a boy to give a blowjob to."*


----------



## Chas

MattMatt said:


> So if someone was so broken by their spouse's disgustingly public and humiliating act of infidelity, you'd recommend violence against the betrayed spouse? :wtf: Seriously?
> 
> And exactly what would you call a "truly bad affair?"
> 
> I'd call arranging to perform an act of oral sex on someone you aren't married to in front of witnesses known to both the WS and the BS a "truly bad affair."


OK Matt, so I got a little carried away by today's standards by saying I would kick my fathers a$$. But I still stand by the fact that I would not tolerate my father going around telling the world he divorced my mother because she blew a stripper. She's still my mother, for god's sake. Yes, she screwed up and humiliated him and the OP has every right to divorce her and I didn't advise him to do otherwise. What I take issue with is when a spouse does a one time, out of character, thing a lot of posters want to throw then under the bus. I can understand that some posters here have been through terrible infidelities and deserve to be bitter, but sometimes I feel they are projecting a little in their advice.
My definition of a truly bad affair? We have both seen terrible affairs here on this sub and this one falls into the class of lesser affairs. She did a stupid thing at a party, is truly remorseful, has been honest and has thrown away a 23 year marriage. I see no advantage to enacting revenge on her other than to hurt her relationship with their children.
Maybe we can agree to disagree on this one?


----------



## harrybrown

if she planned this for months, and then lied over several months, how do you know she was not practicing on others over the years?

The trust is shattered. It would make you wonder what she was doing today and where she is going tomorrow.

We all have made mistakes. No one is perfect.

It also makes you wonder if she cares about you, or just nice to have around, because you have worked hard to provide for the family and she likes the things that you provide. 

I do hope you find some peace and healing in the future. 

good luck with the D. MOst of those are not fun.


----------



## MattMatt

Chas said:


> OK Matt, so I got a little carried away by today's standards by saying I would kick my fathers a$$. But I still stand by the fact that I would not tolerate my father going around telling the world he divorced my mother because she blew a stripper. She's still my mother, for god's sake. Yes, she screwed up and humiliated him and the OP has every right to divorce her and I didn't advise him to do otherwise. What I take issue with is when a spouse does a one time, out of character, thing a lot of posters want to throw then under the bus. I can understand that some posters here have been through terrible infidelities and deserve to be bitter, but sometimes I feel they are projecting a little in their advice.
> My definition of a truly bad affair? We have both seen terrible affairs here on this sub and this one falls into the class of lesser affairs. She did a stupid thing at a party, is truly remorseful, has been honest and has thrown away a 23 year marriage. I see no advantage to enacting revenge on her other than to hurt her relationship with their children.
> Maybe we can agree to disagree on this one?


Well, yes but this is what OP is thinking, now


----------



## Chas

But he has no suspicion of her cheating other that the two incidences other than many telling him that a lie is always the tip of the iceberg and she has cheated on him several times. She didn't have to tell him about kissing the other man. What if she decided to come clean, as all cheaters are encouraged to do, and that was the only thing she did in 23 years. Still throw her under the bus?


----------



## MachoMcCoy

I KNEW they blew the strippers. Those AREN'T just staged events with pornstars. 

In case anyone is wondering what this is all about, google "Beeg Video Dancing Bear", turn off your safesearch and get ready for an education.

THEN tell him to get over it. With every one of his friends knowing about it.


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## lifeistooshort

I suspect it never occurred to her that she'd wreck her life over a little BJ and figured you'd never know about. It's a stiff price. Maybe deserved, but still stiff.

Have you considered giving it 6 months to see if you can get something back? If you know yourself and know it won't happen proceed, but if you're unsure it might help.

Make your own decision though, do not let her pressure you because her motives are suspect. It's up to you to decide what you can live with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Chas said:


> But he has no suspicion of her cheating other that the two incidences other than many telling him that a lie is always the tip of the iceberg and she has cheated on him several times. She didn't have to tell him about kissing the other man. What if she decided to come clean, as all cheaters are encouraged to do, and that was the only thing she did in 23 years. Still throw her under the bus?


Oh...I will go one better.

Middle aged mom, twenty ought years of marriage, good husband, nice life, has everything going for her.

Over several months she sneaks money, lies, flirts and kisses this boy probably right after meeting him a week or so before the party, sets him up for the strip show...knowing....

Knowing....

...she would be in a henhouse full of gossiping, chatty, *****y women, let's herself get loose and tipsy, and when he pulls off the thing she's the first to go down on her knees to suck this kid off...

She's been looking forward to this ever since she first laid eyes on him days before the party. 

She knew some women there would be scandalized.

She knew some of the women would flee when they saw her going down on this kid. 

She knew some of these women would talk.

And she knew word would eventually get back to her husband. 

She thought she had her husband pegged. She thought she had him under her thumb. Well...surprise surprise...he went off on her when he found out, shocked her with his rage, and he is now teetering on the edge of divorcing her and she is back peddling like Wiley Coyote on his Acme rocket bicycle, trying desperately not to fly off the cliff. 

This woman knew damn well what she was doing, she knew damn well what she was going to do when he dropped his thong, and she gambled that she could sweet talk her old man into not divorcing her. 

Give me a fvcking break.....


----------



## GusPolinski

lifeistooshort said:


> I suspect it never occurred to her that she'd wreck her life over a little BJ and figured you'd never know about. It's a *stiff* price. Maybe deserved, but still *stiff*.
> 
> Have you considered giving it 6 months to see if you can get something back? If you know yourself and know it won't happen proceed, but if you're unsure it might help.
> 
> Make your own decision though, do not let her pressure you because her motives are suspect. It's up to you to decide what you can live with.


:lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


----------



## morituri

I am of the opinion that the BS personal recovery takes precedent over the marriage. Sometimes that can be achieved while choosing to remain married to a remorseful WS but many times it simply is not possible.

But as with every life altering decision, the person making it must be at peace with it. For this reason, I think it is always a good idea to not make a spur of the moment decision and at least allow some months before making it final.

Lastly, you are not a sucker, but your STBXWW certainly is for having chosen to blow up her marriage for something and someone so worthless that most sane and faithful wives would never even dream of. She has to live with the knowledge that she was the idiot.


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## Roselyn

If my husband attended a bachelor's party and went down on a stripper in front of people and humiliated me, my marriage of 35 years is over. I will not be cheated nor humiliated in this manner. Where is the unlike button for "Chas". I would hit it a hundred times!

To top this scenario, your wife hired this stripper who is the age of your son. She hired this stripper with your own money, stolen money from your bank account. This is sick, truly sick! How could you face the women who were in this party? Did you say that this bachelorette party was for a family member? What kind of family do you have to allow this scenario?

Your wife is beyond shameless; a disgrace to your children and your entire family. Divorce is your saving grace.


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## BobSimmons

disillusioned14 said:


> Thanks again everyone.
> 
> I'll try to answer all the questions.
> 
> 
> Yes, my wife hired him. He is a stripper and is almost the same age as our son. She took money in smaller increments out of our checking account to come up with the money needed to pay him. this tells me it was not an accident, she planned this part.
> 
> She claims that everyone was going to help pitch in to cover the cost but no one did. Then the story changed to she thought everyone would want to contribute and no one did. She said she got his name from a friend of a the woman who had the party at her house.
> 
> She claims she wasnt the only one to fondle the guy or end up with his **** in her mouth. But shes the only one I am married to. There were 11 women there. My wife claims to have been drinking and got caught up in the party. She claims to be very ashamed now.
> 
> Some of the women left when things got nasty. Unfortunately instead of leaving my wife participated.
> 
> My wife was never one to go out partying without me, there were no Vegas trips or strip club visits, at least none I know of.
> 
> Does it seem out of character, yes. Do I think I know everything now, yes. But how can you ever be sure. The lies stretched on for months and she would have never told me anything if i wasn't clued in and pressing her and snooping.
> 
> *I understand the DNA suggestion for young children when child support may be an issue and appreciate that but my kids are grown. I am struggling to see how that would help any of us at this point. I don't want to send the message to my adult kids that I don't want to be their dad anymore.* Does that make sense? Am i missing something there?
> 
> The trust is gone, the specialness that was our marriage is gone, and the attraction I had for here is gone.


Nah you're their dad. For me scratch all that nonsense about DNA'ing the kids. They are your kids, what's going on is between you and your wife.

Go ahead and divorce. In the fullness of time, maybe you might get back together and reconnect, but if you need to do this, by god it's your right, go ahead and do it.

Unfortunately actions have consequences. I get the feeling she's gotten away with a lot in the past. Cheating gets easier the more it happens. Given the alcohol and circumstances she thought what the hell and went and did it.


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## Hardtohandle

I have to agree with the notion of you just don't roll with this whole party thing..

Someone who is the "good girl" just don't all of a sudden do this sort of thing.. 

I think this was just the next step in a bigger chain of events that you were not aware of.

I'm glad and proud you strong enough to do what is right for you.. It took me some time to make this move and really it was because my Ex wife was pushing for it.. But in the end it was the greatest thing ever.. 

I would definitely find out all the facts about divorce in your state.. Make sure you don't have a lawyer that is just going through the motions. Mine did at first and I had to turn him around.. His notion was what can we do to prevent from being raked over the coals. 

Where my idea was how much child support can my Ex wife pay me.. 

Find out the law and do your own negotiations with your wife.. Especially since she is weak and susceptible to poor decision making..

I used my Ex wife guilt against her and it worked out in the end for me..


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## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Oh...I will go one better.
> 
> Middle aged mom, twenty ought years of marriage, good husband, nice life, has everything going for her.
> 
> Over several months she sneaks money, lies, flirts and kisses this boy probably right after meeting him a week or so before the party, sets him up for the strip show...knowing....
> 
> Knowing....
> 
> ...she would be in a henhouse full of gossiping, chatty, *****y women, let's herself get loose and tipsy, and when he pulls off the thing she's the first to go down on her knees to suck this kid off...
> 
> She's been looking forward to this ever since she first laid eyes on him days before the party.
> 
> She knew some women there would be scandalized.
> 
> She knew some of the women would flee when they saw her going down on this kid.
> 
> She knew some of these women would talk.
> 
> And she knew word would eventually get back to her husband.
> 
> She thought she had her husband pegged. She thought she had him under her thumb. Well...surprise surprise...he went off on her when he found out, shocked her with his rage, and he is now teetering on the edge of divorcing her and she is back peddling like Wiley Coyote on his Acme rocket bicycle, trying desperately not to fly off the cliff.
> 
> This woman knew damn well what she was doing, she knew damn well what she was going to do when he dropped his thong, and she gambled that she could sweet talk her old man into not divorcing her.
> 
> Give me a fvcking break.....


:iagree:

So this wasn't, after all, a one time event really, was it?

Deciding what she was going to do... CHECK!
Selecting a boy of about her son's age... CHECK!
Working out how to fund it by stealing money from a family account... CHECK!
Wrecking marriage... CHECK!

Oh. Maybe she didn't mean to check that last box but, gee, maybe it's too late? :scratchhead:


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## bandit.45

Chas said:


> But he has no suspicion of her cheating other that the two incidences other than many telling him that a lie is always the tip of the iceberg and she has cheated on him several times. She didn't have to tell him about kissing the other man. What if she decided to come clean, as all cheaters are encouraged to do, and that was the only thing she did in 23 years. Still throw her under the bus?


Um...sorry Chas....you have it backwards. 

She threw her husband under the bus, along with 20+ years of marriage.


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## ThePheonix

disillusioned14 said:


> Yes, my wife hired him. He is a stripper and is almost the same age as our son. She took money in smaller increments out of our checking account to come up with the money needed to pay him. *this tells me it was not an accident, she planned this part.*


Ya think! Take my word for it my man, this chick knew exactly what she was doing when she put this plan together, executed it right under your nose, while you unknowingly footed the bill. When she got home, I hope you didn't kiss her for throwing a successful bachelorette party 
In the final analysis, the ladies who left were the ones who were were loyal and had integrity. The others who lacked these qualities stayed to eagerly participate in the festivities. Believe me when I say women who blow male strippers are not the most morally upstanding women you're every going to meet. I wonder if little sis participated. Usually the bride-to-be goes first.
What adds insult to injury is, like Tobyboy said, somebody and likely several, have phone videos of your wife and others going down on this guy; and as likely as not, posted on the internet/cloud.


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## morituri

bandit.45 said:


> Um...sorry Chas....you have it backwards.
> 
> She threw her husband under the bus, along with 20+ years of marriage.


Well said bandido.


----------



## lifeistooshort

GusPolinski said:


> :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


Ha ha, yeah, I had a raised Spock eyebrow when I was typing it


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## MattMatt

Yikes. Her son will look at her and think: "My mother was having sex with someone of my age?" 

That probably will not sit well with him.


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## Jasel

GusPolinski said:


> :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


Okay I'm glad it wasn't just me lol.


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## x598

OP the betrayed spouse lynch mob seems to be out in full force. and i too, was betrayed, so i get where it comes from.

but consider a few things.

1. you don't know the details and most likely never will. people can come here and speculate all sorts of things. maybe accurate, maybe not. you have to judge, having known your wife for many years, what her capabilities are. but as you can see here, the injured are always going to assume the worst.

2. there are cheaters that do learn from mistakes and go on to be better people. its not a magical awakening one day. it takes effort and focus. you have to judge if your wife is doing that.

3. your wife needs to do some serious heavy lifting to repair what she has done. while it seems like initially she is remorseful, time will really tell. this also means that you do not get to "beat her over the head" and use this as a weapon for lousy treatment of her if she is doing the appropriate things.

4. get a good MC or maybe even encourage her to come here and read this. what do you have to loose?


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## Thor

Stealing money from the family? That is perhaps an overstatement. My wife and I don't have a budget subject to being accountable to each other below about $200. If she was saving up for a larger expense and pulled out some money each week for a while, it would not be stealing. If she spent $500 on something, yeah we should be talking about it. Idk what a stripper costs but it is probably too much not to save up for. If she truly expected others to chip in, she may have honestly expected to put the money back into the family account.

Secondly, she was referred to the stripper by a 3rd party. Where is the evidence she had any relationship with the stripper or had even met him before the party? Yet people are claiming she had planned on giving a public blow job to someone she already knew!

It seems many women have no plan to step over a line but get drunk and with all the egging on of others they do. The same thing happens at bachelor parties! Guys do things they never planned on.

Someone asked earlier if she finished him. And/or did other women participate?

There is no evidence she has been in other affairs or that this was an ongoing affair. This was one huge mistake she made, and worthy of D if OP can't get past this. But let's not go overboard.


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## GusPolinski

lifeistooshort said:


> Ha ha, yeah, I had a raised Spock eyebrow when I was typing it


Ha ha!


----------



## jim123

Roselyn said:


> If my husband attended a bachelor's party and went down on a stripper in front of people and humiliated me, my marriage of 35 years is over. I will not be cheated nor humiliated in this manner. Where is the unlike button for "Chas". I would hit it a hundred times!
> 
> To top this scenario, your wife hired this stripper who is the age of your son. She hired this stripper with your own money, stolen money from your bank account. This is sick, truly sick! How could you face the women who were in this party? Did you say that this bachelorette party was for a family member? What kind of family do you have to allow this scenario?
> 
> Your wife is beyond shameless; a disgrace to your children and your entire family. Divorce is your saving grace.


This is spot on and the central issue in this case.

She got the name from a friend and knew what they would be doing. She wanted it so bad, she paid for all of it.

I am not sure I could respect her and the only way I could get respect back from all those there was to go D.

Or you can be an inside joke the rest of your M.


----------



## hookares

Disillusioned, you may elect to stay with your cheater if you can find any reason to do it.
BUT, do you really think you can learn to trust her?
My ex ended up cheating on every guy she was with after she dumped me and took the house.


----------



## x598

jim123 said:


> This is spot on and the central issue in this case.
> 
> She got the name from a friend and knew what they would be doing. She wanted it so bad, she paid for all of it.
> 
> I am not sure I could respect her and the only way I could get respect back from all those there was to go D.
> 
> Or you can be an inside joke the rest of your M.


yes, i can see how he would appear to be a joke. if i were the OP....i would request that she humble herself and apologize to each and every person there for her behavior.

i think its a little much to project that other than planning for the stripper to be there, she intended to pay for all of it and had these designs planned ahead of time. a stripper at a bachelor or bachelorette party? like that is something unheard of? come on. goes on all the time. 

i bet the OP may have been to a bachelor party once upon a time and seen a few things.


----------



## GusPolinski

Maybe it's just me, but I'm having trouble believing that alcohol alone could drive any wife and mother to do this. Well... unless, of course, she were already somewhat comfortable w/ idea of committing adultery... and due to having already engaged in it.

In fact... given the most commonly-cited statistics regarding infidelity, I'm left to wonder whether or not the women that left at the onset of inappropriate behavior were among those that have NOT previously cheated and whether or not those that remained are among those that HAVE previously cheated... and whether or not there was any overlap either way.

Hmm... I wonder what the left/stayed breakdown turned out to be percentage-wise.


----------



## jim123

x598 said:


> yes, i can see how he would appear to be a joke. if i were the OP....i would request that she humble herself and apologize to each and every person there for her behavior.
> 
> i think its a little much to project that other than planning for the stripper to be there, she intended to pay for all of it and had these designs planned ahead of time. a stripper at a bachelor or bachelorette party? like that is something unheard of? come on. goes on all the time.
> 
> i bet the OP may have been to a bachelor party once upon a time and seen a few things.


This is not a projection at all. Unfortunately blowing the stripper is increasing popular. In the ones I am familiar with, the bride is the one who finishes after the rest take a turn.


----------



## jim123

GusPolinski said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I'm having trouble believing that alcohol alone could drive any wife and mother to do this. Well... unless, of course, she were already somewhat comfortable w/ idea of committing adultery... and due to having already engaged in it.
> 
> In fact... given the most commonly-cited statistics regarding infidelity, I'm left to wonder whether or not the women that left at the onset of inappropriate behavior were among those that have NOT previously cheated and whether or not those that remained are among those that HAVE previously cheated... and whether or not there was any overlap either way.
> 
> Hmm... I wonder what the left/stayed breakdown turned out to be percentage-wise.


This is almost a what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Somehow this is just good clean fun in the mind of some women. 

I wish there were more men like OP who stands his ground. If more women get a D over these parties, it will end instead of being promoted.


----------



## disillusioned14

Thanks again for the responses.

I'll try to answer some more of the questions.

I have not had a BJ from her in a decade- give or take.

Our chilkdren are in college, I'm helping to cover a lot of it, but they are also invested in their own future with some loans- I would have much rather reduced their future debt burden. So yes, I feel like she stole- not just from me- but from our family.

Did she finish him- she says no. How can I know if that is true? Do I care, not really. Did other other women participate at the party? Yes. We are the only ones getting a divorce that I know of. That has been one of her big points and her family's points. 

I did not mean to make myself out to be perfect. I'm not. I worked too many hours when we were first married trying to get us on our feet financially, but I did always try with my wife and the kids. Was there something missing? If I had to guess I would some excitement maybe?

Do I want to punish her? AT first, hell yes. Now, I just want her to be Ok and us to be divorced. Its not about punishing her at this point. I just can't see myself getting past this and trying again. Maybe if she would have been honest from the get go? But not now. Too many lies, too many times I was told thats all there is to know.

I wrote about the money, yes it bugs me, but not as bad as the rest of it. had the others chipped in, I would still want a divorce. 

Did her sister participate, yes. Did she still get maried, yes. Would I have married her, F-no.

Her sister called me an unforgiving cold hearted pr!ck. I guess maybe I am. I'm not sure that is the case. I think I'm working towards forgiveness for her. But does that mean we have to R? I don't think so and just can't see getting back together with her again.

Did I get a kiss from my wife the night she came home? Yes. Does my stomach still turn with nausea thinking about that? Hell yes. 

Could there have been other cheating? That is certainly possible. She was a stay at home mom so had the time. Do I think it happened? No, I don't. But like I wrote earlier... she fooled me before.

I know some have reconcilled successfully. I just don't think it is for me.


----------



## disillusioned14

I titled this ultimate sucker because that's what I feel like. Not because of what she did. That post dd make me smile, alomst a laugh.

Thanks. I do need some humor in my life.


----------



## jim123

One thing your wife has to look forward to is her sister's next wedding. Something tells me that blowing the stripper somehow tells you how the M will turn out.

The fact they all are ok with it is scary. I would bet they also do this on GNO's as well. What would be the difference.


----------



## GusPolinski

disillusioned14 said:


> Did she finish him- she says no. How can I know if that is true? Do I care, not really. Did other other women participate at the party? Yes. We are the only ones getting a divorce that I know of. That has been one of her big points and her family's points.


Are their husbands aware of what went on?



disillusioned14 said:


> Did her sister participate, yes. Did she still get maried, yes. Would I have married her, F-no.


Oh really? Is her new husband aware of this?



disillusioned14 said:


> Her sister called me an unforgiving cold hearted pr!ck.


Assuming that we're talking about the same sister, I'd have pointed the following out to her...

1) Forgiveness and divorce are *NOT* mutually exclusive.
2) Her mouth would be put to better use servicing stripper c*ck than preaching her bullsh*t to me.

I wonder if everyone in their family has the same entitled cheater mindset.



disillusioned14 said:


> I guess maybe I am. I'm not sure that is the case. I think I'm working towards forgiveness for her. *But does that mean we have to R?* I don't think so and just can't see getting back together with her again.


Nope.



disillusioned14 said:


> Did I get a kiss from my wife the night she came home? Yes. Does my stomach still turn with nausea thinking about that? Hell yes.


Ugh.


----------



## Happilymarried25

I vote to give her another chance. She didn't have sex with him. This wasn't an affair. She didn't steal money from you, it was from a joint account so it's her money too.


----------



## alte Dame

Usually when people say 'follow your heart,' there is a positive implication. It means that you are choosing something potentially happy for yourself.

In your case, OP, following your heart means that you will divorce. She broke your heart in that moment and there does not appear to be any going back for you. Some people are simply like that; when the balance tips, it's over.

So, if you follow your heart, it leads you to a breakup of your marriage, which appears to be a negative thing. And it is, initially, no doubt. But it has to be positive for you eventually, since your heart is telling you that you deserve something better than what you have received from her.

I think you are done with this marriage. I know it is extremely hard to just say it and then do it. That is so understandable. It is momentous. You don't appear to have a choice, though. That is how you are and you don't have to apologize for it, in my opinion.


----------



## GusPolinski

Happilymarried25 said:


> I vote to give her another chance. She didn't have sex with him. This wasn't an affair. She didn't steal money from you, it was from a joint account so it's her money too.


Oral sex is sex, and any money used to fund any sort of sexual encounter w/ another person is rightly viewed as a theft from the marriage.


----------



## disillusioned14

Gus- yes all are aware and other wives also participated, but one swears to have only touched him to keep him away and that she was repulsed. Her husband is standing by her story although others have stated she is flat out lying. 

When the truth finally started to come out they kind of threw each other under the bus by telling what the others did to somehow exhonerate themself??

One of the husbands won't speak to me anymore. He blames the whole thing on my family since we paid for it. Like I had something to do with it.

My sister-in-laws husband- all of the details didn't come out until they had been married, but there was enough smoke to delay it. He's jsutifying it by saying they weren't actually maed yet. Whatever.

One of the women was single- the one who's house was used.


----------



## GusPolinski

disillusioned14 said:


> Gus- yes all are aware and other wives also participated, but one swears to have only touched him to keep him away and that she was repulsed. Her husband is standing by her story although others have stated she is flat out lying.
> 
> When the truth finally started to come out they kind of threw each other under the bus by telling what the others did to somehow exhonerate themself??
> 
> One of the husbands won't speak to me anymore. He blames the whole thing on my family since we paid for it. Like I had something to do with it.
> 
> *My sister-in-laws husband- all of the details didn't come out until they had been married, but there was enough smoke to delay it. He's jsutifying it by saying they weren't actually maed yet.* Whatever.
> 
> One of the women was single- the one who's house was used.


What a f*cking chump.


----------



## disillusioned14

The money came from a joint account but was certainly never intended to be used for something like this. It sure feels like it was stolen to me.

Although, that is not all that I feel like she stole. My family, dignity, trust, etc. All gone.


----------



## Chas

I realize I'm not with the consensus here and I have no desire to conduct an argument on disillusioned14's thread.

Roselyn, I had no business criticizing your post and I apologize for doing so.


----------



## GusPolinski

Chas, I get what you're saying -- that, essentially, while OP is justified in his anger, disgust, and lack of trust in his wife, and would be equally justified in seeking a divorce, he (and, more importantly, his family) would be better served by doing so in as dignified a manner as possible.

I can get behind that. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that I'd agree.


----------



## ThePheonix

disillusioned14 said:


> but one swears to have only touched him to keep him away and that she was repulsed.


That happens. There are likely plenty of phone videos to back it up if its true. Blowing the strippers is as much a part of this as drinking alcohol and eating cake. These women know what goes on and know ahead of time who's going to blow. The ones not interest in watching/participating leave. I'd been disappointed if little sis hadn't of assumed the position. Probably the reason her husband married her anyway is her ability to form a perfect vacuum seal with her lips. 
Disillusioned my man, I think you married a rounder. I don't think she needed instructions from the other girls.


----------



## Roselyn

disillusioned14 said:


> The money came from a joint account but was certainly never intended to be used for something like this. It sure feels like it was stolen to me.
> 
> Although, that is not all that I feel like she stole. My family, dignity, trust, etc. All gone.


Any money earned in the marriage is family money. It is not to be spent needlessly on a stripper to be orally enjoyed by your wife and her skanky friends. It is stolen money from you and your children.

What you feel about loss of family, dignity, trust, pride, respect, and sense of belonging to the community is a fact. The husbands already blamed you, along with your wife, about this horrible event because in their eyes you paid for it. Your wife, her friends, and her sister who participated in this orgy are simply disgusting women. I've never heard of a story such as yours in my 57 years of living that happened in any decent family. You need to regain your dignity by throwing this woman out of your life.

Your concern should be you and your children. You and your children will need to see a family counselor to deal with your feelings. This is extreme humiliation to you and your children. 
I wouldn't be surprised if your children will want to move out of your community.


----------



## Roselyn

disillusioned14 said:


> Our chilkdren are in college, I'm helping to cover a lot of it, but they are also invested in their own future with some loans- I would have much rather reduced their future debt burden. So yes, I feel like she stole- not just from me- but from our family.
> 
> Could there have been other cheating? That is certainly possible. She was a stay at home mom so had the time. Do I think it happened? No, I don't. But like I wrote earlier... she fooled me before.
> 
> I know some have reconcilled successfully. I just don't think it is for me.


Sorry, I missed this post. You don't have enough money to send your children to college, yet your wife spends money to pay to a stripper to be given an oral job by her, her sister, and her friends. This is definitely stealing from the piggy banks of your children.

You said that your children know of the details of this orgy. They must be disgusted. My sincere sympathy to you Dissillusioned 14.


----------



## Dyokemm

" I worked too many hours when we were first married trying to get us on our feet financially, but I did always try with my wife and the kids."

This is one of the bullsh*t excuse and guilt trips that WW's often throw on BH's that really p*sses me off.

Its definitely a 'd*mned if you do, d*amned if you don't" scenario.

Work hard to support your family....you ignored my needs.

Don't put in the long hours to give your family the best....you're a bum and a poor provider who didn't give her what she expected.

We see this lame a** blameshifting a lot on these threads...and the BH's feeling guilty thinking they somehow f*cked up when all they were trying to do was the best for their families.

OP...don't ever feel guilty over doing the best you could to provide a comfortable life and future for your family.

And if your WW ever complains about it, tell her to go to h*ll....that type of self-centered bullsh*t is something NO BH should ever have to put up with.


----------



## G.J.

For the first time on reading a post on this board im struggling from day to day on what I would do in this situation
Oral is nearly as bad as penetrative sex to me only difference is a different opening

BUT its this *group dynamic* aspect that *worry's me *in so much as from prior experience when I use to go out with the guys we would egg each other on for dares etc. (erm not stripper parties) drinking, push ups and most other tame stuff you could think off BUT it was indeed a lot of times fuelled by alcohol, some of the guys would never have had the courage to do things like run naked across the street and back again etc

Yes alcohol is *no excuse* But as i've intimated in this case the *GROUP DYNAMIC* is NOT an intimate sexual act in this case I.M.O..

*I would love a psychiatrists view on group behaviour on these type of parties*
Any studies out there I wonder ?

Its a terrible place to be in so the bottom line will always be if you don't love her then the only viable option is to D
But make sure you want to spend the rest of your life with out her

Its a first for me not to go for The D option on some thing like this

Would insist if I tried to R who he finished in and verify it

ADD
The *money and what people think* of me wouldn't even come into the equation for me to make up my mind if I still wanted to try to make a go of the marriage


----------



## seasalt

By the time they leave Kindergarten most people learn that actions have consequences.

Your wife just learned it a lot later than most.

Good luck and stay strong,

Seasalt


----------



## LongWalk

This male stripper at the party prior to marriage is "modern" equality since men had strippers for the groom's final single blow out.

Your wife has fit a time biologically speaking in which sexual desire goes up to give her a last shot at pregnancy. Consciously she doesn't want another child but liminal signals run her mind. She followed a conventional path to cheat openly and gain immunity from the conequences by involving others. Her ability to reason was trumped by sexual lust.

I think you should let the question of reconciliation go for the time being. Divorce since you want to. After you divorce you can reconsider your wife as a potential partner. Is she going to make the divorce difficult? Use mediation and see if you can avoid conflict.

Maybe she'll want to start dating quickly. If so, that will tell you a lot about her actual desire for you. If you are important, she should go through a period of mourning while staying single. If she shrugs her shoulders and tells herself, I have reputation as promiscuous woman, so I might as well enjoy the benefits, then you know she is not going to be monogamous.


----------



## bandit.45

Happilymarried25 said:


> I vote to give her another chance. She didn't have sex with him. This wasn't an affair. She didn't steal money from you, it was from a joint account so it's her money too.


Like Gus said, oral sex is sex....

If you walked in on a bachelor party and saw your husband licking a stripper's snatch, would you consider it sex?


----------



## bandit.45

Chas said:


> I realize I'm not with the consensus here and I have no desire to conduct an argument on disillusioned14's thread.
> 
> Roselyn, I had no business criticizing your post and I apologize for doing so.


Chas you just keep on defending those ladies from us Neanderthals...you Knight in Shining Armor you.... 

Careful, you will have all these TAM ladies swooning for ya.


----------



## where_are_we

My husband participated in a bachelor party group thing like this before we married. It was two strippers (actually hookers with a body guard) they had sex with each other in front of all the men. All the men did body shots off the girls, then they offered themselves to them for sex, for an additional price. I'm told only one guy took up the sex offer. My hubby swears he only did the shot, but his mouth was all over her.

I was holy pissed when I found out 2 years later. I still married him and now divorcing because of sex hook up sites and prostitution. I should have known then the kind of man he was.

I don't blame you for divorcing her. I'm sorry you are here. Keep in mind, this is only what you know about. She will never admit to more.


----------



## barbados

Dyokemm said:


> " I worked too many hours when we were first married trying to get us on our feet financially, but I did always try with my wife and the kids."
> 
> This is one of the bullsh*t excuse and guilt trips that WW's often throw on BH's that really p*sses me off.
> 
> Its definitely a 'd*mned if you do, d*amned if you don't" scenario.
> 
> *Work hard to support your family....you ignored my needs.*
> 
> Don't put in the long hours to give your family the best....you're a bum and a poor provider who didn't give her what she expected.
> 
> We see this lame a** blameshifting a lot on these threads...and the BH's feeling guilty thinking they somehow f*cked up when all they were trying to do was the best for their families.
> 
> OP...don't ever feel guilty over doing the best you could to provide a comfortable life and future for your family.
> 
> And if your WW ever complains about it, tell her to go to h*ll....that type of self-centered bullsh*t is something NO BH should ever have to put up with.


and she ignored his needs by not giving her own H a BJ in a decade, but had no problen blowing a skanky male stripper.

PUKE !


----------



## MattMatt

barbados said:


> and she ignored his needs by not giving her own H a BJ in a decade, but had no problen blowing a skanky male stripper.
> 
> PUKE !


Perhaps because she would only blow a skanky male stripper and not the father of her children?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper

disillusioned14 said:


> I have not had a BJ from her in a decade- give or take.
> 
> I worked too many hours when we were first married trying to get us on our feet financially, but I did always try with my wife and the kids.


If you are like most people, you probably didn't like working your entire youth away. Your hard work gave her the *luxury* of getting to sit around as a SAHM and watch the kids grow. Apparently she appreciated this so little, she couldn't be bothered to give you a hummer once and awhile.



disillusioned14 said:


> Did her sister participate, yes. Did she still get maried, yes. Would I have married her, F-no.
> 
> Her sister called me an unforgiving cold hearted pr!ck.


Sisters huh? What are the odds that two such wonderful ladies would come from the same background? Also, your new brother-in-law is a complete patsy.



disillusioned14 said:


> Did I get a kiss from my wife the night she came home? Yes. Does my stomach still turn with nausea thinking about that? Hell yes.












My opinion, this isn't her first rodeo. I would just head for the exit. Too much here to try and get past. She has been using and disrespecting you for too long. This recent slap in the face just woke you up to see the full extent of it. Hopefully you can divorce without having to pay alimony to this emotional and materialistic vampire.


----------



## Yeswecan

Happilymarried25 said:


> I vote to give her another chance. She didn't have sex with him. This wasn't an affair. She didn't steal money from you, it was from a joint account so it's her money too.


It is sex HM25. This did even work for Bill Clinton. If you walked in on your H using his tongue in the nether regions of a female stripper what would think it is? Simply sampling the buffet?


----------



## Chaparral

Years ago I went to many bachelor parties with strippers at them. I purposely didn't have a party like that and would only go to a neighborhood bar, LOL. My friends were apologetic for such a boring party, lol.

However, strippers/hos used to be very common and I assume still are. Now the ladies have caught up. There is plenty of proof of this on the internet.

While I think this is wrong, I don't think in this case breaking up a family and looking down the road at the repercussions of family gatherings, holidays, birthdays and grandchildren will be worth falling on ones sword.

Kids will always gravitate towards their mother, the one left out will be dad.

Assuming this is the only reason for dumping your wife I think you are making as big a mistake as your wife did. Statistically, 80% of the couples that divorce over infidelity regret that decision and wish they had worked it out. In your case, the level of infidelity is about as low as you can go and still be defined as infidelity.

My main point is that though your wife did do you wrong, you are the one that's going to be doing the most suffering in the long run and most likely be alienated from your kids and grand kids lives.


----------



## Yeswecan

disillusioned14 said:


> The money came from a joint account but was certainly never intended to be used for something like this. It sure feels like it was stolen to me.
> 
> Although, that is not all that I feel like she stole. My family, dignity, trust, etc. All gone.


She, in a sense, committed a secondary betrayal with taking money without your knowledge and agreement for what the money was to be spent on. Very calculating she was in this entire ordeal.


----------



## Doyle

Just wondered how many women stayed and how many left.

Also are the other husbands all staying with their wives.

Are the other wives still in contact with your wife.

Also* IF[/B you stay with your wife ( I know you say not) the toxic sister will have to be dumped, does she realise that.*


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Does she go out on a lot of GNO's?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Doyle said:


> Just wondered how many women stayed and how many left.
> 
> Also are the other husbands all staying with their wives.
> 
> Are the other wives still in contact with your wife.
> 
> *Also IF[/B you stay with your wife ( I know you say not) the toxic sister will have to be dumped, does she realise that.*


*

Considering who it was that set this whole thing up and paid for it, I'd say the wife is the toxic sister. Little sis participated but wife instigated.*


----------



## Ripper

Chaparral said:


> While I think this is wrong, I don't think in this case breaking up a family and looking down the road at the repercussions of family gatherings, holidays, birthdays and grandchildren will be worth falling on ones sword.
> 
> Kids will always gravitate towards their mother, the one left out will be dad.
> 
> Assuming this is the only reason for dumping your wife I think you are making as big a mistake as your wife did. Statistically, 80% of the couples that divorce over infidelity regret that decision and wish they had worked it out. In your case, the level of infidelity is about as low as you can go and still be defined as infidelity.
> 
> My main point is that though your wife did do you wrong, you are the one that's going to be doing the most suffering in the long run and most likely be alienated from your kids and grand kids lives.


What the fvck is this?!


----------



## bandit.45

Chaparral said:


> Years ago I went to many bachelor parties with strippers at them. I purposely didn't have a party like that and would only go to a neighborhood bar, LOL. My friends were apologetic for such a boring party, lol.
> 
> However, strippers/hos used to be very common and I assume still are. Now the ladies have caught up. There is plenty of proof of this on the internet.
> 
> While I think this is wrong, I don't think in this case breaking up a family and looking down the road at the repercussions of family gatherings, holidays, birthdays and grandchildren will be worth falling on ones sword.
> 
> Kids will always gravitate towards their mother, the one left out will be dad.
> 
> Assuming this is the only reason for dumping your wife I think you are making as big a mistake as your wife did. Statistically, 80% of the couples that divorce over infidelity regret that decision and wish they had worked it out. In your case, the level of infidelity is about as low as you can go and still be defined as infidelity.
> 
> My main point is that though your wife did do you wrong, you are the one that's going to be doing the most suffering in the long run and most likely be alienated from your kids and grand kids lives.


He needs to go,lick some stripper puss then. Even the field.


----------



## MarriedTex

barbados said:


> and she ignored his needs by not giving her own H a BJ in a decade, but had no problen blowing a skanky male stripper.
> 
> PUKE !


I agree wholeheartedly with this. If BJ was part of her regular menu with husband, you could almost buy the "we were tipsy, partying" line. Clearly, she didn't think of her husband enough to do regularly for him. But will do it for the hunky stripper who's getting paid. This is the double-standard that would infuriate me.

On a side note, I wonder what it would be like to get paid to get a BJ from multiple women. Anything in the sex trade is degrading, of course. But I could stand that type of humiliation for a night or two, at least. :lol:


----------



## bandit.45

If he chooses to stay, then I think a flight to Vegas and a one night pass to the Bunny Ranch is in order.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> He needs to go,lick some stripper puss then. Even the field.


Ugh. He might as well spend an hour licking toilet seats in a truck stop restroom.

Insert barf emoji here.


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> Ugh. He might as well spend an hour licking toilet seats in a truck stop restroom.
> 
> Insert barf emoji here.


The human digestive tract is pretty resilient. He just needs to make sure she has no warts.


----------



## Yeswecan

GusPolinski said:


> Ugh. He might as well spend an hour licking toilet seats in a truck stop restroom.
> 
> Insert barf emoji here.


I just lost my lunch.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> The human digestive tract is pretty resilient. He just needs to make sure she has no warts.


----------



## ConanHub

Sorry dude. You're perfectly fine divorcing her. Tell your detractors to kiss your wife after she let another man shove it in her mouth or they can shut up.

If my wife even made out with another, we would be through. Some men don't have as big a problem getting kissed by a wife with the taste of another man's penis on her tongue. I am not one of them and neither are you apparently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

I am seeing what she did as most likely a spur of the moment event fueled by alcohol and peer pressure. This doesn't seem like a premeditated bj, or that there is any evidence of other infidelities. To me this reads as one of those ONS where the cheater failed to stop the progression of events.

This is probably the most survivable type of infidelity. There was no emotional entanglement involved, no web of lies to facilitate an ongoing affair, no gas-lighting during the affair. I would be most hopeful for a successful R in this kind of situation compared to other affairs.

Having said that, I would D. A bj exceeds my limits, and the kiss after coming home I don't think I would ever get over. The marriage will never be the same after an infidelity. There are issues of alimony and pensions which are huge if staying together, and I would protect my future with a D.

I support OP in whichever path he chooses. Either way is justified. A D can always be followed by getting back together later.


----------



## ConanHub

disillusioned14 said:


> Thanks again for the responses.
> 
> I'll try to answer some more of the questions.
> 
> I have not had a BJ from her in a decade- give or take.
> 
> Our chilkdren are in college, I'm helping to cover a lot of it, but they are also invested in their own future with some loans- I would have much rather reduced their future debt burden. So yes, I feel like she stole- not just from me- but from our family.
> 
> Did she finish him- she says no. How can I know if that is true? Do I care, not really. Did other other women participate at the party? Yes. We are the only ones getting a divorce that I know of. That has been one of her big points and her family's points.
> 
> I did not mean to make myself out to be perfect. I'm not. I worked too many hours when we were first married trying to get us on our feet financially, but I did always try with my wife and the kids. Was there something missing? If I had to guess I would some excitement maybe?
> 
> Do I want to punish her? AT first, hell yes. Now, I just want her to be Ok and us to be divorced. Its not about punishing her at this point. I just can't see myself getting past this and trying again. Maybe if she would have been honest from the get go? But not now. Too many lies, too many times I was told thats all there is to know.
> 
> I wrote about the money, yes it bugs me, but not as bad as the rest of it. had the others chipped in, I would still want a divorce.
> 
> Did her sister participate, yes. Did she still get maried, yes. Would I have married her, F-no.
> 
> Her sister called me an unforgiving cold hearted pr!ck. I guess maybe I am. I'm not sure that is the case. I think I'm working towards forgiveness for her. But does that mean we have to R? I don't think so and just can't see getting back together with her again.
> 
> Did I get a kiss from my wife the night she came home? Yes. Does my stomach still turn with nausea thinking about that? Hell yes.
> 
> Could there have been other cheating? That is certainly possible. She was a stay at home mom so had the time. Do I think it happened? No, I don't. But like I wrote earlier... she fooled me before.
> 
> I know some have reconcilled successfully. I just don't think it is for me.


Ask your SIL how much her husband enjoyed tasting another man in her mouth. Talk about brazenly slvtty behavior. I'm shocked that no other husbands are divorcing over this. Is there something in the water where you live?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## x598

what you guys are now saying is an RA.

there have been many people talking here about that in the past and the consensus is to take the high road and don't do it. and i would have agreed previously.

This thread, and others have made me re-think this position.

after being here a while, and seeing many BS's talk about the post Dday behavior of the WS...its readily apparent WS just simply don't get the magnitude of the pain and damage they casuse, even the remorseful ones.

i have had friends that went through infedility, and having never experienced it myself, was casual about the impact it had on them and could not relate to how deeply it affected them.

Then my Dday came...and suddenly i got it....how crushing, humiliating and utterly destructive it really is. to a WS, that has never been cheated on, there has to be an even higher level of disconnect as the selfishness that was in play for them to cheat in the first place, doesn't just go away.

The point is, only once you have that cold act heaped on you does anyone ever really come to know the pain and suffering that is created by it.

So I am now wondering if an RA is a useful and more productive tool to shock a WS spouse into the reality of what they have done, end the fog, and show them exactly what they have created and maybe then be humbled, empathetic and even more so stop the cheating cycle in their present or future relationships as they have experienced what it feels like.


----------



## GusPolinski

Thor said:


> I am seeing what she did as most likely a spur of the moment event fueled by alcohol and peer pressure. This doesn't seem like a premeditated bj, or that there is any evidence of other infidelities. To me this reads as one of those ONS where the cheater failed to stop the progression of events.
> 
> *This is probably the most survivable type of infidelity.* There was no emotional entanglement involved, no web of lies to facilitate an ongoing affair, no gas-lighting during the affair. I would be most hopeful for a successful R in this kind of situation compared to other affairs.
> 
> Having said that, I would D. A bj exceeds my limits, and the kiss after coming home I don't think I would ever get over. The marriage will never be the same after an infidelity. There are issues of alimony and pensions which are huge if staying together, and I would protect my future with a D.
> 
> I support OP in whichever path he chooses. Either way is justified. A D can always be followed by getting back together later.


Eh... I'm not so sure about that. After all, the somewhat public nature of the transgression surely heaps a bit more sh*t on top of the pile.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if some of the other BHs -- perhaps feeling that their thoughts w/ respect to divorcing their own wives (which they've thus far been able to suppress) have been validated by OP's decision to divorce -- don't wind up divorcing as well.

At the very least, there will probably be at least a few revenge affairs that go down (LOLOLOL) as a result of this debacle. And think about it... each of the BHs (almost typed BJs :rofl: ) knows who did and didn't suck off the stripper.

The next few months should be pretty interesting for this particular social circle.


----------



## barbados

MarriedTex said:


> I agree wholeheartedly with this. If BJ was part of her regular menu with husband, you could almost buy the "we were tipsy, partying" line. *Clearly, she didn't think of her husband enough to do regularly for him.* But will do it for the hunky stripper who's getting paid. This is the double-standard that would infuriate me.


:iagree:

This shows EXACTLY how little she repects her husband :

1) That she did it for another guy and not her H.
2) She set up the whole thing
3) Had NO problem cuckolding her H in front of other people.

and like others have already said, I can't believe this was her first rodeo.


----------



## CH

Thor said:


> To me this reads as one of those ONS where the cheater failed to stop the progression of events.
> 
> This is probably the most survivable type of infidelity.


Depends if there is a video/picture of it out there.....

The age of the smart phone.....

I don't care how many times it's told, NO PICS, NO VIDS. When the juice is flowing and the party gets wild, the phones always come out, especially when it gets raunchy.

Most will delete the photos/vids when they wake up with that huge hangover but there's always that one that keeps it for nostalgia....The thought of someone accidentally seeing my wife blowing someone on the net one day....No thanks.

BTW, the wife hired the stripper by hiding withdrawals over a period of time....That alone IMO doesn't count as a oops moment. She picked him out because she found him HOT and SEXY and then she HIRED HIM for the party. An oops moment is, I didn't know there was going to be a stripper and it just happened.


----------



## honcho

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... I'm not so sure about that. After all, the somewhat public nature of the transgression surely heaps a bit more sh*t on top of the pile.


Well she has gotten the need for exposure out of the way....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBDad

This woman disgusts me. Her values and judgement shows me this is not her first time. There is no remorse just regret she was finally caught. She raised the level of excitement and thought all her friends would join in. Well, her best friends ran out of the place when the party changed. The remaining ones are just as toxic. 

Next the b!tch and move on. She made her choice and so should you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

honcho said:


> Well she has gotten the need for exposure out of the way....


LOL. Word.

It's worth noting, though, that exposure -- usually -- can be somewhat controlled.


----------



## PBDad

CH said:


> Depends if there is a video/picture of it out there.....
> 
> The age of the smart phone.....
> 
> I don't care how many times it's told, NO PICS, NO VIDS. When the juice is flowing and the party gets wild, the phones always come out, especially when it gets raunchy.
> 
> Most will delete the photos/vids when they wake up with that huge hangover but there's always that one that keeps it for nostalgia....The thought of someone accidentally seeing my wife blowing someone on the net one day....No thanks.
> 
> BTW, the wife hired the stripper by hiding withdrawals over a period of time....That alone IMO doesn't count as a oops moment. She picked him out because she found him HOT and SEXY and then she HIRED HIM for the party. An oops moment is, I didn't know there was going to be a stripper and it just happened.


There are no oops moments. You remove yourself from the situation or participate. No oops. It's called judgement, integrity, values and vows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

Doyle said:


> Also* IF[/B you stay with your wife ( I know you say not) the toxic sister will have to be dumped, does she realise that.*


*

That's a little like saying if the wife brought coke to the party, she now need to dump the sister who snorted it for being a bad influence. Let me tell you something. Back in the day I've done a party or two. The women who participate in giving the BJ and fondling are more than willing participates and position themselves accordingly. The stripper knows who they can approach and who to back off from. What you see on the videos are pretty much the way it goes down. (no pun intended) The person doing the hiring choreography's the program. Unless she's a idiot, she knew exactly what what was going to happen.*


----------



## drifting on

Disillusioned14

Whether you decide to divorce or reconcile I support what the OP decides to do with their life. In your case you are leaning towards divorce, as you have stated this is something you can't move past. From what you have posted this entire night has been a question mark and it appears all the attendees have been less then truthful. Coming home to you and then kissing you is the biggest show of disrespect in my opinion. She has no respect for you whatsoever, no matter what comments she says. I am sorry that you are here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Disillusioned

Can I make one suggestion to you?

While you go through the divorce process (which your reasoning is sound by the way) ask your wife to do the following:

1. Get a good IC (shrink) for her to figure out why she chose to do the following:

A. Steal the money over time.
B. Have sex with a stranger. Have sex with a stranger in front of friends and family.
C. Embarrass you so badly.
D. Embarrass herself so badly.
E. Risk your marriage for no return whatsoever.
F. Disrespect you so badly not just by having public sex with a stranger but by lying continuously to you over a period of months (trickle truth).

Google the term trickle truth.
Then read it to her. Because while the oral sex is bad, it is the trickle truth that undermines all feelings of love and trust for that person.

Now some might say it will be a waste of time since you are divorcing her.

But when you have kids together you will have contact with her since you will be coparenting and involved with each other for years to come.

Maybe the counseling will make her a better person than she has been in the past.

Just some food for thought.

HM


----------



## Graywolf2

disillusioned14 said:


> I have always been attracted to her and have definitely been the one to pursue sex in our relationship, now she just isn't appealing.
> 
> All I can think about is some other d-bags junk in her mouth and the never ending lies. I just don't feel good about staying in the marriage. It used to be very special to me and now just seems like a cruel joke that I want to end.


There are reasons to R and to D but this is the bottom line. As long as the above is true all the rest doesn’t matter. Get a divorce and work on your new life.



disillusioned14 said:


> Did other women participate at the party? Yes. We are the only ones getting a divorce that I know of. That has been one of her big points and her family's points. *Her sister called me an unforgiving cold hearted prick*.


Her sister’s reaction is so visceral because your actions (moving out, divorce) are a public statement that her husband shouldn’t have married her. Your SIL and her husband will hate you because you are making them both look bad.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

happyman64 said:


> 1. Get a good IC (shrink) for her to figure out why she chose to do the following:
> 
> A. Steal the money over time.
> B. Have sex with a stranger. Have sex with a stranger in front of friends and family.
> C. Embarrass you so badly.
> D. Embarrass herself so badly.
> E. Risk your marriage for no return whatsoever.
> F. Disrespect you so badly not just by having public sex with a stranger but by lying continuously to you over a period of months (trickle truth).


You forgot to add her kids to this list. If this were me, it would be all about what they are going through.


----------



## ConanHub

She definitely needs her head examined, by someone other than a stripper that is...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan

Graywolf2 said:


> Her sister’s reaction is so visceral because your actions (moving out, divorce) are a public statement that her husband shouldn’t have married her. Your SIL and her husband will hate you because you are making them both look bad.


I guess then both the SIL and her H will just need to "get over it". And who really cares? The family is no longer after the D is served. SIL H can spend his days wondering why he just let it go.


----------



## leon1

I think your mind is made up , you need to start divorce proceedings .Is she still friends with all the women who threw each other under the bus to try safe themselves .When the sister had words with you calling you heartless i hope you told her what a cheating ***** she is .


----------



## Doyle

Just to clear something up, when I called the little sister toxic 
I was referring to her calling the the husband out on his actions and defending her sister's part in all this.
Not shifting the blame for what happened on the night


----------



## Dogbert

Your SIL was probably another slvt that svcked the stripper's cvck. You know the old saying "birds of a feather".

This is SIL second marriage. Makes you wonder how her first marriage ended considering she has no qualms about svcking other men's cvcks while in a committed relationship.


----------



## bandit.45

Don't worry about that nasty SIL of yours. Don't worry about your kids turning on you to defend their mom. All that stuff is usually transitory. The kids may be mad for a while, but after a few years pass the anxiety will diminish and the truth will remain. Their mom blew up the family. 

At the end of the day you will be the one looking in the mirror every morning, and the face staring back at you will be the face of integrity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Clay2013

Nothing like being betrayed and them humiliated by a unremorseful person. My heart goes out for you. Get out of this marriage you clearly deserve better. Marraige take two people to make it work. She is clearly not in it. Its so heart breaking to know everyone around you knows and you had to find out last. 

I hope you move on and take care of yourself. 

Clay


----------



## Dogbert

bandit.45 said:


> Don't worry about your kids turning on you to defend their mom. All that stuff is usually transitory. The kids may be mad for a while, but after a few years pass the anxiety will diminish and the truth will remain. Their mom blew up the family._Posted via Mobile Device_


I think his kids are behind him. This from his first post on this thread.



disillusioned14 said:


> The kids are raised. They support my position and yes they know most of the awful details.


----------



## ConanHub

Dogbert said:


> I think his kids are behind him. This from his first post on this thread.


Yup. Kids are in dad's corner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelyblue

MattMatt said:


> Yikes. Her son will look at her and think: "My mother was having sex with someone of my age?"
> 
> That probably will not sit well with him.


No kid now matter what age wants to think about their parents getting it on..yuck

And his mother is blowing a stripper his own age..double yuck.

When I was out drinking I never ever thought hmm I want to blow this strange man/stripper.

Did she use a condom while blowing this strange stripper? My bet is no so he needs to get tested.


----------



## Dogbert

To paraphase Nick Fury's comment to Captain America's swearing in "Avengers: Age of Ultron:
*
"And you kiss your sons with that mouth?"*


----------



## MattMatt

lovelyblue said:


> No kid now matter what age wants to think about their parents getting it on..yuck
> 
> And his mother is blowing a stripper his own age..double yuck.
> 
> When I was out drinking I never ever thought hmm I want to blow this strange man/stripper.
> 
> Did she use a condom while blowing this strange stripper? My bet is no so he needs to get tested.


I once made a female colleague hyperventilate quite badly. Her mother visited our office and I said: "Wow! You mom is hot!"

Apparently my mentioning after her attack that I was a year older than her mother didn't help any.


----------



## lovelyblue

A. Steal the money over time.
B. Have sex with a stranger. Have sex with a stranger in front of friends and family.
C. Embarrass you so badly.
D. Embarrass herself so badly.
E. Risk your marriage for no return whatsoever.
F. Disrespect you so badly not just by having public sex with a stranger but by lying continuously to you over a period of months (trickle truth).

G. She paid for it.-(BY using family money)
H. She probably didn't use a condom.


----------



## ThePheonix

Dogbert said:


> This is SIL second marriage. Makes you wonder how her first marriage ended considering she has no qualms about svcking other men's cvcks while in a committed relationship.


You can bet she know her way around male genitalia. Maybe why the new husband's willing to look the other way.


----------



## lovelyblue

MattMatt said:


> I once made a female colleague hyperventilate quite badly. Her mother visited our office and I said: "Wow! You mom is hot!"
> 
> Apparently my mentioning after her attack that I was a year older than her mother didn't help any.


Ugh I hate when people would tell me they think my parents are attractive.


----------



## Dogbert

ThePheonix said:


> You can bet she know her way around male genitalia. Maybe why the new husband's willing to look the other way.


True, but he may have also done the deed himself behind his new bride's back.


----------



## lovelyblue

Dogbert said:


> True, but he may have also done the deed himself behind his new bride's back.


Or he watched her do it and got off on it.

Seriously normal woman drunk or sober just go down on strange male strippers.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> I am seeing what she did as most likely a spur of the moment event fueled by alcohol and peer pressure. This doesn't seem like a premeditated bj, or that there is any evidence of other infidelities.


Sorry, we will disagree on this point here is why:


CH said:


> BTW, the wife hired the stripper by hiding withdrawals over a period of time....That alone IMO doesn't count as a oops moment. She picked him out because she found him HOT and SEXY and then she HIRED HIM for the party. An oops moment is, I didn't know there was going to be a stripper and it just happened.





ThePheonix said:


> The person doing the hiring choreography's the program. Unless she's a idiot, she knew exactly what what was going to happen.


Yes.

Also, as a guy who worked security for various "parties," it is VERY RARE for sex acts to not be negotiated before hand. So, while she may not have planned to participate (no, I do not believe this for a second), she knew sex acts were going to occur IMO.


----------



## disillusioned14

I have read all of the responses and appreciate the time folks have taken to respond. My head is just too far down the path of D. I just can't see staying with her any more. This is not a rash decision, its taken months to get where I am.

My kids do suport me and I havedone my best to make sure thy still speak to their mom. They were quite upset with her and no they don't come back home as much as they used to. Someone guessed that part and it is correct. I think they are both embarassed as it is not a secret.

My wife still talks to her sister. The group kind of fell apart as this drug on with most trying to blame others. It seems that my wife was cut out from most of them. I'm not sure if that all her doing, theirs or a combination.

There are no other divorces resulting from this that I know of, at least not yet anyway. 

Did they use a condom? I never thought to ask, just assumed no. Still, even if the answer is yes, it doesn't change my mind. Would he change the condom between women? I doubt it.

I don't want to pucnish her. But I also don't want to punish me anymore either.

I never thought I'd be in this position. I think that is why I feel like such an idiot. I didn't see it coming at all. 

Thanks all, I'm sticking a fork in the marriage and going to try to start over. I know some have suggested dating her aftyerward, but I can't see that either. I'm not attracted to her anymore and have no idea how I'd ever get that back as I'm not interested in her again. It's hard to explain, but it's like all the lies and betrayal just killed the love and pride I had for her and our marriage.

I know what I need to do and am pulling the trigger. I will speak to both kids first so they hear it from me.


Thanks again


----------



## ConanHub

Peace bro. Take care of yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Dogbert said:


> True, but he may have also done the deed himself behind his new bride's back.


He sucked the stripper's Johnson? Wow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

bandit.45 said:


> He sucked the stripper's Johnson? Wow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What's good for the goose......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

OP your feelings towards her are completely correct and justified. Good luck to you. Pop in now and then and let us know how the divorce is proceeding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

disillusioned14 said:


> I have read all of the responses and appreciate the time folks have taken to respond. My head is just too far down the path of D. I just can't see staying with her any more. This is not a rash decision, its taken months to get where I am.
> 
> My kids do suport me and I havedone my best to make sure thy still speak to their mom. They were quite upset with her and no they don't come back home as much as they used to. Someone guessed that part and it is correct. I think they are both embarassed as it is not a secret.
> 
> My wife still talks to her sister. The group kind of fell apart as this drug on with most trying to blame others. It seems that my wife was cut out from most of them. I'm not sure if that all her doing, theirs or a combination.
> 
> There are no other divorces resulting from this that I know of, at least not yet anyway.
> 
> Did they use a condom? I never thought to ask, just assumed no. Still, even if the answer is yes, it doesn't change my mind. Would he change the condom between women? I doubt it.
> 
> I don't want to pucnish her. But I also don't want to punish me anymore either.
> 
> I never thought I'd be in this position. I think that is why I feel like such an idiot. I didn't see it coming at all.
> 
> Thanks all, I'm sticking a fork in the marriage and going to try to start over. I know some have suggested dating her aftyerward, but I can't see that either. I'm not attracted to her anymore and have no idea how I'd ever get that back as I'm not interested in her again. It's hard to explain, but it's like all the lies and betrayal just killed the love and pride I had for her and our marriage.
> 
> I know what I need to do and am pulling the trigger. I will speak to both kids first so they hear it from me.
> 
> 
> Thanks again



There is no shame in choosing divorce just as there is no shame in choosing to reconcile. Each person has their limits and their deal breaker boundaries. Your STBXWW has lived with a mindset that has allowed her to falsely believe that her infidelities are inconsequential and harmless to the marriage. A totally opposite mindset than yours.

A final note. I've read recent stories of men who have married more than one unfaithful woman. To avoid becoming a statistic and getting seriously involved with a another woman who has the same problems as your STBXWW when it comes to impulse control with men, I would advise that you seek IC (individual counseling) to find out what are the attractors that make you gravitate towards this type of woman. The last thing you need in the future is a repeat of the past.


----------



## lifeistooshort

MattMatt said:


> I once made a female colleague hyperventilate quite badly. Her mother visited our office and I said: "Wow! You mom is hot!"
> 
> Apparently my mentioning after her attack that I was a year older than her mother didn't help any.


When my hb's daughter was about 21 she had her second bf, who was the roommate of her first. First bf dumped her so she went outv with the roommate to get back at him. Husband LOVED this guy, he was working in an internship for ESPN.

One day daughter told me that she wasn't happy with him and felt like she was settling. I told her that she should never settle, she was young, beautiful and in pharmacy school (well on the track at the time). Then I told her that she should find someone who excited her like her dad excited me because it wasn't going to get better. I think she was weirded out by that but she took my advice. 

She brought him to our wedding and managed to keep him out of the pictures (plans like her dad)) and dumped him after that. She did meet a guy who excited her after that and today she's a pharmacist and married to said guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Divinely Favored

[


----------



## Dyokemm

"So I am now wondering if an RA is a useful and more productive tool to shock a WS spouse into the reality of what they have done, end the fog, and show them exactly what they have created and maybe then be humbled, empathetic and even more so stop the cheating cycle in their present or future relationships as they have experienced what it feels like."

I don't think I would ever consider staying with a cheater....I kicked my LTgf to the curb instantly when I caught her.

But I do know if I was in this situation in the future and did decide to R, I would definitely have an RA and tell her about it right away for this EXACT reason.


----------



## lifeistooshort

OP, you sound quite emotionally healthy despite what happened. You're not mean or vindictive, you know what you can't live with. No need to be nasty, your wife is paying for what she's done. 

Besides, based on what you said about always having to initiate and not having had a BJ in 10 years combined with her going out of her way to arrange sex acts with a stripper tells me she's not that into you anyway. This tells me that for her it's more about the lifestyle you provide vs a relationship with you. 

You deserve better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Divinely Favored

GREAT!!!! I just saw on the news the HPV virus has been linked to throat and oral cancer especially in 20 and 30 year olds what is most prevalent currently. She thought oral on a skank bag stripper was safe!!!!! I would bet that kid has screwed soo many i bet he carries HPV. She needs to make regular dentist visits. That FUTURE pharyngitis may actually be throat cancer.

Great another way the POS cheating spouses may have already signed their BS death warrants. They kill more than the marriage.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

disillusioned14 said:


> Ive read about other people still sleeping with their cheatinf spouse. I guess I'm defective because I just don't find her attractive anymore.


Yeah, I never got that either. That's the last thing I'd want to do.



disillusioned14 said:


> Thanks- I thought about the additional cheating part especially since she planned for the guy to be therte although she swears she wasn't planning on actually oing anything with him.


I doubt that. If he was recommended or refered to her by someone then it's possible that she knew it would happen. There are strippers that are known to allow and do certain things/offer certain services and she might have hired him specifically for that.



disillusioned14 said:


> Her sister called me an unforgiving cold hearted pr!ck. I guess maybe I am. I'm not sure that is the case.


Well off course she'd say that, she's on your sister's side. It could also be that since she behaved the same way as your wife did, her marriage might be determined by the outcome of yours. If you divorce, whose to say a light bulb won't go off in her husband's head and that he too thinks 'that s### she did wasn't cool' and also divorce her. Her opinion shouldn't matter to you.

Her and your wife's objective is to have you stay married, they'll use begging, pleading, insults, guilt and any other form of manipulation to have that happen.



disillusioned14 said:


> I think I'm working towards forgiveness for her. But does that mean we have to R? I don't think so and just can't see getting back together with her again.


Forgiveness does not mean staying in the marriage. You have a good attitude over this, you're not being vindictive or unreasonable in the path you've chosen, don't let anyone make you feel otherwise.

Take care of yourself, and work on your healing and your life moving forward.


----------



## toonaive

Be very very careful what you way to any of the inlaws. Like everybody here I will remind you that blood is thicker than water, and no matter what anybody says about being on your side. Fight any urge to give any information to them at all times. In the end, they will only be out for themselves.


----------



## Yeswecan

disillusioned14 said:


> I have read all of the responses and appreciate the time folks have taken to respond. My head is just too far down the path of D. I just can't see staying with her any more. This is not a rash decision, its taken months to get where I am. *For this I do not blame you. Everyone has their limits. *
> 
> My kids do suport me and I havedone my best to make sure thy still speak to their mom. *Great to did this.* They were quite upset with her and no they don't come back home as much as they used to. Someone guessed that part and it is correct. I think they are both embarassed as it is not a secret.*I would be embarrassed as well. *
> 
> My wife still talks to her sister. The group kind of fell apart as this drug on with most trying to blame others. It seems that my wife was cut out from most of them. I'm not sure if that all her doing, theirs or a combination. *They made their bed as it were. *
> 
> There are no other divorces resulting from this that I know of, at least not yet anyway. *You just might kick start other H into rethinking the entire incident and finding it all very inappropriate and betrayed. Whatever the case...you stood behind your morals and respect for yourself. *
> 
> Did they use a condom? I never thought to ask, just assumed no. Still, even if the answer is yes, it doesn't change my mind. Would he change the condom between women? I doubt it.
> 
> I don't want to pucnish her. But I also don't want to punish me anymore either.
> 
> I never thought I'd be in this position. I think that is why I feel like such an idiot. I didn't see it coming at all.* Well sir, in a majority of cases trustworthy and faithful are attributes many enjoy/expect in their spouse. You are no different and should not feel like an idiot. In fact, you are quite smart in pressing for the truth, standing up on your moral grounds and finding a resolve that satisfies you. *
> 
> Thanks all, I'm sticking a fork in the marriage and going to try to start over. I know some have suggested dating her aftyerward, but I can't see that either. I'm not attracted to her anymore and have no idea how I'd ever get that back as I'm not interested in her again. It's hard to explain, but it's like all the lies and betrayal just killed the love and pride I had for her and our marriage. *Yes, what once was will never be again. *
> 
> I know what I need to do and am pulling the trigger. I will speak to both kids first so they hear it from me.
> 
> 
> Thanks again


Please come back to vent and keep in touch. We are all pulling for you!


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

G.J. said:


> For the first time on reading a post on this board im struggling from day to day on what I would do in this situation
> Oral is nearly as bad as penetrative sex to me only difference is a different opening
> 
> BUT its this *group dynamic* aspect that *worry's me *in so much as from prior experience when I use to go out with the guys we would egg each other on for dares etc. (erm not stripper parties) drinking, push ups and most other tame stuff you could think off BUT it was indeed a lot of times fuelled by alcohol, some of the guys would never have had the courage to do things like run naked across the street and back again etc
> 
> Yes alcohol is *no excuse* But as i've intimated in this case the *GROUP DYNAMIC* is NOT an intimate sexual act in this case I.M.O..
> 
> *I would love a psychiatrists view on group behaviour on these type of parties*
> Any studies out there I wonder ?
> 
> Its a terrible place to be in so the bottom line will always be if you don't love her then the only viable option is to D
> But make sure you want to spend the rest of your life with out her
> 
> Its a first for me not to go for The D option on some thing like this
> 
> Would insist if I tried to R who he finished in and verify it
> 
> ADD
> The *money and what people think* of me wouldn't even come into the equation for me to make up my mind if I still wanted to try to make a go of the marriage


There is a psychological phenomenon about how an individual's values can completely change when being part of a mob.

https://healthpsychologyconsultancy.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/the-psychology-of-the-mob-mentality/

So it's quite possible that the WW in this thread is NOT a serial cheater and that she was caught up in the morals of the crowd. It doesn't mean that I assume she's been true to the marriage between the time she was caught kissing an ex BF to the stripper incident, but it's quite possible that she is telling the truth. Given that the OP stated that she did not have a pattern of GNO's or GF trips to Vegas, etc... She might be telling the truth. 

Assumptions can bite you in the ass later.

Haven't read past this point, so if someone already showed links and discussed the psychology of a crowd, then apologies for repeating it.


----------



## Yeswecan

Plan 9 from OS said:


> There is a psychological phenomenon about how an individual's values can completely change when being part of a mob.
> 
> https://healthpsychologyconsultancy.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/the-psychology-of-the-mob-mentality/
> 
> So it's quite possible that the WW in this thread is NOT a serial cheater and that she was caught up in the morals of the crowd. It doesn't mean that I assume she's been true to the marriage between the time she was caught kissing an ex BF to the stripper incident, but it's quite possible that she is telling the truth. Given that the OP stated that she did not have a pattern of GNO's or GF trips to Vegas, etc... She might be telling the truth.
> 
> Assumptions can bite you in the ass later.
> 
> Haven't read past this point, so if someone already showed links and discussed the psychology of a crowd, then apologies for repeating it.


Serial cheater or not...the deed was done. Truth or not...the deed was done. Never mind the taking of money behind OP back to pay for the extravaganza.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Chas said:


> What I take issue with is when a spouse does a one time, out of character, thing a lot of posters want to throw then under the bus.


Like the old saying goes... "Build 1,000 bridges and suck one d!ck, you're not a bridge builder, you're a a d!ck sucker."

While typically applied to guys, I'd say it's perfectly valid for cheating wives too. Unfair or not, that's how people know her now.

No woman up and loses her mind after 23 years and decides to blow a guy at a party. Especially a stripper of all people. His d!ck probably has more STDs on it than a bowl of alphabet soup. 

She orchestrated the whole thing. This was premeditated. She's a seasoned veteran cheater. You can bet the house on that.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

BetrayedDad said:


> Like the old saying goes... "Build 1,000 bridges and suck one d!ck, you're not a bridge builder, you're a a d!ck sucker."


I would love to think that actually IS an old saying. Priceless.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

BetrayedDad said:


> No woman up and loses her mind after 23 years and decides to blow a guy at a party. Especially a stripper of all people.


Not sure I agree with that. 



BetrayedDad said:


> She orchestrated the whole thing. This was premeditated. She orchestrated the whole thing. This was premeditated. She's a seasoned veteran cheater. You can bet the house on that.


If she is so seasoned at getting men to present their stiff wankers to her, why plan this? Why not just go to the clubs, round up a group of young guys and lead them to the parking lot or men's room? Maybe after 23 years she DID just need some nice young hard body to fondle. She saw this as an opportunity to live a little fantasy. Thought maybe her husband would understand. Maybe hit the roof, but ultimately understand.

Maybe she didn't plan to blow him. I realize you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube (pun intended), but he may be blowing up the marriage for the wrong reason. 

Yes, I can see blowing the stripper then coming home and kissing him being divorce worthy. As long as that is the reason. Not because she is a serial cheater.


----------



## ThePheonix

Some of this, mob psychology, caught up in the moment, and other excuses for her behavior would carry a little more weight, but not enough weight, if she hadn't of set the whole thing up. The person organizing the mob cannot claim, "I just got caught up in it. Remember to that those that are part of the mob, chose to be part of the mob.
And like Lifestooshort said,
_"Besides, based on what you said about always having to initiate and not having had a BJ in 10 years combined with her going out of her way to arrange sex acts with a stripper tells me she's not that into you anyway. This tells me that for her it's more about the lifestyle you provide vs a relationship with you." 
_
Women that are into their husbands don't go around blowing strippers. Those are the women left the party early. 
Anyway you cut it, it takes audacity to publicly perform BJ in front of camera laden friends and relatives. Women like this have less respect for their husbands than women having affairs. At least there's some semblance and expectation of privacy.
He's right divorcing her. She has nothing for him anyway.


----------



## Yeswecan

MachoMcCoy said:


> Not sure I agree with that.
> 
> 
> 
> If she is so seasoned at getting men to present their stiff wankers to her, why plan this? *Point taken.* Why not just go to the clubs, round up a group of young guys and lead them to the parking lot or men's room? Maybe after 23 years she DID just need some nice young hard body to fondle. *Well after 21 years I still fondle my W. I don't go fondle a 18 yo just because she has a nice body.* She saw this as an opportunity to live a little fantasy. *Should have remained a fantasy.* Thought maybe her husband would understand. Maybe hit the roof, but ultimately understand. *Wrong on all counts. *
> 
> Maybe she didn't plan to blow him. *Did or didn't, the deed was done.* I realize you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube (pun intended), but he may be blowing up the marriage for the wrong reason. *I don't think so. Personally I would be done with my marriage if my W did the same. I can assure you my W would be done with me if I was working over the carpet of a female stripper.*
> 
> Yes, I can see blowing the stripper then coming home and kissing him being divorce worthy. *Sir, it also entailed lies and stealing of money to fund the stripper. * As long as that is the reason. Not because she is a serial cheater.


----------



## lifeistooshort

ThePheonix said:


> Some of this, mob psychology, caught up in the moment, and other excuses for her behavior would carry a little more weight, but not enough weight, if she hadn't of set the whole thing up. The person organizing the mob cannot claim, "I just got caught up in it. Remember to that those that are part of the mob, chose to be part of the mob.
> And like Lifestooshort said,
> _"Besides, based on what you said about always having to initiate and not having had a BJ in 10 years combined with her going out of her way to arrange sex acts with a stripper tells me she's not that into you anyway. This tells me that for her it's more about the lifestyle you provide vs a relationship with you."
> _
> Women that are into their husbands don't go around blowing strippers. Those are the women left the party early.
> Anyway you cut it, it takes audacity to publicly perform BJ in front of camera laden friends and relatives. Women like this have less respect for their husbands than women having affairs. At least there's some semblance and expectation of privacy.
> He's right divorcing her. She has nothing for him anyway.


Generally true, though at worst they're blowing their husbands too. Women who don't like giving BJ's aren't blowing anyone. That supports that she's not into him. 

In my view she didn't realize it would come to this. Thought it would be a secret but figured at worst he'd be upset but wouldn't ditch 23 years over it. Honesty I don't think his attraction to her is a concern of hers since she's not into him anyway. Giving up the lifestyle of a married woman, especially if she hasn't workd, is huge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

ThePheonix said:


> Some of this, mob psychology, caught up in the moment, and other excuses for her behavior would carry a little more weight, but not enough weight, if she hadn't of set the whole thing up. The person organizing the mob cannot claim, "I just got caught up in it. Remember to that those that are part of the mob, chose to be part of the mob.
> And like Lifestooshort said,
> _"Besides, based on what you said about always having to initiate and not having had a BJ in 10 years combined with her going out of her way to arrange sex acts with a stripper tells me she's not that into you anyway. This tells me that for her it's more about the lifestyle you provide vs a relationship with you."
> _
> Women that are into their husbands don't go around blowing strippers. Those are the women left the party early.
> Anyway you cut it, it takes audacity to publicly perform BJ in front of camera laden friends and relatives. Women like this have less respect for their husbands than women having affairs. At least there's some semblance and expectation of privacy.
> He's right divorcing her. She has nothing for him anyway.


All I'm saying is it's a possibility. I'm not here to tell the OP what to do - just wanted to mention that there is a chance that something like this played a role in her blowing the guy. Was it premeditated on her part or was it unplanned? No idea. OP would know best since he knows his wife better than we do.


----------



## Yeswecan

Plan 9 from OS said:


> All I'm saying is it's a possibility. I'm not here to tell the OP what to do - just wanted to mention that there is a chance that something like this played a role in her blowing the guy. *Was it premeditated on her part or was it unplanned? * No idea. OP would know best since he knows his wife better than we do.


It makes very little difference. The act was done. This is the same as saying, "It just happened." It does not fly.


----------



## harrybrown

Sorry you are going thru this mess she created.

Hope you do find healing someday.

D is not easy, but sometimes it is worth it.

I have never seen an easy D, but I do hope you survive the D and find happiness in the future.

I do hope you do something for yourself. Time to start looking out for you.


----------



## TheGoodGuy

PBDad said:


> There are no oops moments. You remove yourself from the situation or participate. No oops. It's called *judgement, integrity, values and vows*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


QFT!!!!


----------



## Graywolf2

lifeistooshort said:


> Generally true, though at worst they're blowing their husbands too. Women who don't like giving BJ's aren't blowing anyone. *That supports that she's not into him. *


Plus she was offering the OP all the sex he could handle if he didn’t divorce her. She understood how much he wanted it during marriage and was holding back.



lifeistooshort said:


> In my view she didn't realize it would come to this. Thought it would be a secret but figured at worst he'd be upset but wouldn't ditch 23 years over it.
> 
> Giving up the lifestyle of a married woman, especially if she hasn't workd, is huge.


:iagree:


----------



## Yeswecan

Ripper said:


> get out of this without alimony.


At this point, I do not believe it matters much to the OP. The entire lot involved the OP is the only one with moral character IMO. The entire family on the W side appear to be toxic to the M.


----------



## bandit.45

Yeswecan said:


> At this point, I do not believe it matters much to the OP. The entire lot involved the OP is the only one with moral character. The entire family on the W side appear to be toxic to the M.


But she lost her.marriage, her children's respect, and whatever halfway good reputation she had. In this case, the Karma 9 Iron smacked her right between the eyes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carmen ohio

disillusioned14 said:


> I have read all of the responses and appreciate the time folks have taken to respond. My head is just too far down the path of D. I just can't see staying with her any more. This is not a rash decision, its taken months to get where I am.
> 
> My kids do suport me and I havedone my best to make sure thy still speak to their mom. They were quite upset with her and no they don't come back home as much as they used to. Someone guessed that part and it is correct. I think they are both embarassed as it is not a secret.
> 
> My wife still talks to her sister. The group kind of fell apart as this drug on with most trying to blame others. It seems that my wife was cut out from most of them. I'm not sure if that all her doing, theirs or a combination.
> 
> There are no other divorces resulting from this that I know of, at least not yet anyway.
> 
> Did they use a condom? I never thought to ask, just assumed no. Still, even if the answer is yes, it doesn't change my mind. Would he change the condom between women? I doubt it.
> 
> I don't want to pucnish her. But I also don't want to punish me anymore either.
> 
> I never thought I'd be in this position. I think that is why I feel like such an idiot. I didn't see it coming at all.
> 
> Thanks all, I'm sticking a fork in the marriage and going to try to start over. I know some have suggested dating her aftyerward, but I can't see that either. I'm not attracted to her anymore and have no idea how I'd ever get that back as I'm not interested in her again. It's hard to explain, but it's like all the lies and betrayal just killed the love and pride I had for her and our marriage.
> 
> I know what I need to do and am pulling the trigger. I will speak to both kids first so they hear it from me.
> 
> Thanks again


Dear disillusioned14,

Like most posters here, I respect your decision to divorce and sympathize with your reasons for it.

But a word of warning -- given how much your WW has resisted divorce and the level of opposition you have experienced from her family and friends, you should expect her to become completely unhinged and adversarial once you file. She'll likely try to keep the house, get more than half of your financial assets, collect maximum alimony and seek a giant chunk of your pension/401K. In order to accomplish this, once the gloves come off, expect her to say anything and everything that she thinks will help her achieve her goals -- truth being no prerequisite.

So do yourself a favor and hire the best divorce attorney you can afford and prepare yourself mentally for a really nasty couple of years while the divorce is being contested.

Sorry that you find yourself in this situation and wishing you the best possible outcome.


----------



## bandit.45

Good advice Carmen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## honcho

carmen ohio said:


> Dear disillusioned14,
> 
> Like most posters here, I respect your decision to divorce and sympathize with your reasons for it.
> 
> But a word of warning -- given how much your WW has resisted divorce and the level of opposition you have experienced from her family and friends, you should expect her to become completely unhinged and adversarial once you file. She'll likely try to keep the house, get more than half of your financial assets, collect maximum alimony and seek a giant chunk of your pension/401K. In order to accomplish this, once the gloves come off, expect her to say anything and everything that she thinks will help her achieve her goals -- truth being no prerequisite.
> 
> So do yourself a favor and hire the best divorce attorney you can afford and prepare yourself mentally for a really nasty couple of years while the divorce is being contested.
> 
> Sorry that you find yourself in this situation and wishing you the best possible outcome.


This of course is true and comes to the million dollar question. Once a lawyer tells him what the divorce will cost in assets etc will he rethink this marriage. This is the dilemma in long term marriages. It's not like he will keep everything because she gave a bj.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

honcho said:


> Once a lawyer tells him what the divorce will cost in assets etc will he rethink this marriage.


I don't think she should be kicked to the curb with nothing. He should be prepared to anny up some of the assets and maybe some temporary alimony. If you consider the fact that he's got to keep her up if he keeps her, it ain't so bad. 
But you're right. Many men change their decision to leave when the estimated bill is presented. I've always said that especially in America, a persons perception, and actions are based on economics. Folks oftentimes will sacrifice their rights, happiness, self respect and dignity for their financial interest.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Folks oftentimes will sacrifice their rights, happiness, self respect and dignity for their financial interest."

I agree...many do.

And then many of them spend the rest of their lives despising themselves....that or go off and decide to match their partner's sh*tty choices and become scummy POS cheaters themselves.

How many threads have we seen on TAM where a BH finds out the POSOM was a BS himself before.

These guys decided to stay with their WW's and crapped all over their own pride and dignity....and then let their low self-esteem and brokenness turn them into the thing they despise the most.

Personally, I will never understand putting a price tag on your own dignity.

I guess it's why I always loved that Tony Montana quote from Scarface where he tells Sosa that he only came into this world with two things....his b*alls and his word, and he doesn't break either of them for anyone.

Personally, I would pay ANY price to be able to continue looking myself in the mirror every day without self-loathing.

I can always make more money.....I never get my pride back if I p*ss it away.


----------



## Dyokemm

And btw....I'm NOT referring to all BH's who reconcile....I'm talking about those that stay simply because of the financial costs of ridding themselves of a worthless traitor.


----------



## carmen ohio

honcho said:


> This of course is true and comes to the million dollar question. Once a lawyer tells him what the divorce will cost in assets etc will he rethink this marriage. This is the dilemma in long term marriages. It's not like he will keep everything because she gave a bj.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just to be clear, I was not suggesting that the OP reconsider his decision based on the financial and emotional cost of a divorce.

Rather, I was warning him to be prepared in case his seemingly penitent wife turned vindictive once he filed. It happens often.


----------



## Roselyn

Better to divorce and move on with your life than live with a wife who you have no respect for. If finances are reasons to remain in marriage, man that is purgatory on Earth. In addition, your community knows what she had done. This is a huge embarrassment for you. It's shameful what she had done. 

Notice how your children don't want to come home. Social media is rapid in the college age group. They are shamed; hence, they're avoiding coming home. Your wife did a number on you and your children.


----------



## ThePheonix

Knew an old boy, sheriff's deputy, whose wife ditched him for a neighbor and got stuck with giving up a good part of his assets and some temporary alimony. A year or so later he was saying its now the first time in his life he could afford a "new" Ranger bass boat. Before she hit the road, all the goodies was for her and all he did was work two jobs to see his money pissed away on new cars, clothes, shoes, furniture, beauty shops and a boob job, etc,


----------



## Amplexor

Thread Jack Cleaned Up.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Amplexor said:


> Thread Jack Cleaned Up.


LOL. Something told me not to respond to the derail, for once I listened.


----------



## just got it 55

carmen ohio said:


> Just to be clear, I was not suggesting that the OP reconsider his decision based on the financial and emotional cost of a divorce.
> 
> Rather, I was warning him to be prepared in case his seemingly penitent wife turned vindictive once he filed. It happens often.


"More probable than not"

IMO she will go nuclear count on it 

55


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Amplexor said:


> Thread Jack Cleaned Up.


Sorry if I hijacked the thread. I would like to have the texts back to start a thread then. I do not think this is politics, it is about psychology. And I really believe the harsh advice/comments to OP were out of place in relation to the facts untill this moment know. And that is something quite common in the logic of many Tammers.

We are talking about a marriage with kids here, so that is unresponsible in my eyes to advice extreme measures in relation to the facts.


----------



## GusPolinski

See_Listen_Love said:


> Sorry if I hijacked the thread. I would like to have the texts back to start a thread then. I do not think this is politics, it is about psychology. And I really believe the harsh advice/comments to OP were out of place in relation to the facts untill this moment know. And that is something quite common in the logic of many Tammers.
> 
> We are talking about a marriage with kids here, so that is unresponsible in my eyes to advice extreme measures in relation to the facts.


FWIW, the kids are grown.


----------



## azteca1986

GusPolinski said:


> FWIW, the kids are grown.


Yep. Old enough to make their own decisions and currently they're voting with their feet.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

I know, but what example do they get? I cannot wrap my head around the white hat/black hat scheme like in the old cowboy movies (hope this passes as a metafore). Are they later going to live a white dream only to divorce when they think they are in a relation to a black hat person, who is not the saint they were expecting?

I cannot comprehend the way of thinking here, am I supposed to believe the posters here are all saints who happened to marry a devil in disguise?

It is not my experience in life. People are all sinners if I am allowed to say that. Not seeing it from yourself is very much standard. Including myself.


----------



## morituri

See_Listen_Love,

Here's the thing. Forgiveness and Reconciliation are not Siamese twins joined at the hip. Many reconciliations after an affair, never achieve forgiveness and are trapped in an unhealthy dynamic that poisons the marriage and the people in and around it.

I divorced my wife not because I could not forgive her for her affair nor because I no longer loved her, but because at the time it was necessary for me to do so in order to emotionally and psychologically heal myself. And in doing so, I was able to forgive her, in time, and free myself from the anger and bitterness that would have poisoned my life and those I hold dear to me.


----------



## azteca1986

See_Listen_Love said:


> I cannot comprehend the way of thinking here, am I supposed to believe the posters here are all saints who happened to marry a devil in disguise?


Have you ever been a parent? Expected behaviour and conduct becomes black and white when you do. No room for shades of grey. "Do this, don't do that".

You're trying to paint this situation as if it's some complex moral conundrum. It's not. Marriage also comes with rules. One of which, though probably not discussed is - Do not give or receive blow jobs from third parties for the duration of the marriage. Expecting your wife to not get on her knees and blow some kid young enough o be her son is not some impossibly high standard worthy of sainthood.

The way I see it is that this single incident (not that it was the work of a moment) proved that OP and his stbxw have radically different values when it comes to:

1. The importance of the marriage itself
2. The regard he holds his wife. 
3. Committing sex acts on strangers in public

He's not ending his marriage because it was "just a blow job". She planned this. Executed it. In front of witnesses. Then lied about it for months afterward. They simply have divergent views and values that make remaining in the marriage untenable.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

morituri said:


> See_Listen_Love,
> 
> Here's the thing. Forgiveness and Reconciliation are not Siamese twins joined at the hip. Many reconciliations after an affair, never achieve forgiveness and are trapped in an unhealthy dynamic that poisons the marriage and the people in and around it.
> 
> I divorced my wife not because I could not forgive her for her affair nor because I no longer loved her, but because at the time it was necessary for me to do so in order to emotionally and psychologically heal myself. And in doing so, I was able to forgive her, in time, and free myself from the anger and bitterness that would have poisoned my life and those I hold dear to me.


I understand and respect this, but in the case of OP I do not see an EA/PA. It is hardly to see as a ONS, based on what OP knows now, because it was a quite open event with multiple acquintances and her sister present. There are no other red flags mentioned, so it is a GNO experience as far as the WW is concerned. She lied afterwards because of damage control, en faces serious concequences as a result. I guess she understands now she did wrong and disrespectful to OP.

Well, I leave it at this, I am afraid OP has made up his mind.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

azteca1986 said:


> Have you ever been a parent? Expected behaviour and conduct becomes black and white when you do. No room for shades of grey. "Do this, don't do that".


This is the QED of my point. 

I am a parent yes. Struggling to be a good dad, and accepting relativity as a basic principle.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

See_Listen_Love said:


> I understand and respect this, but in the case of OP I do not see an EA/PA. It is hardly to see as a ONS, based on what OP knows now, because it was a quite open event with multiple acquintances and her sister present. There are no other red flags mentioned





disillusioned14 said:


> She has begged, pleaded promised to have told me everything... she had me believeing that I knew everything and then I find out that while she was preganant with our son, after we were married, she kissed an old boyfriend when she was "visiting" her parents.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Yes, many many years ago and unrelated. So no red flag in my opinion to the present. That she is a party girl with loose boundaries, or was, is clear.

Listen if you want to burn people at stake, be my guest.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

See_Listen_Love said:


> Yes, many many years ago and unrelated. So no red flag in my opinion to the present. That she is a party girl with loose boundaries, or was, is clear.
> 
> Listen if you want to burn people at stake, be my guest.


:slap:Ooof, silly me. Off course it's unrelated. I mean why would a married woman kissing an ex boyfriend many many years ago be a red flag. Whoever suggested past behaviour being a _possible_ indicator of future behaviour was clearly a nutcase.

It's certainly nothing to be upset over and a definitely not indicative of poor boundaries and inappropriate behaviour. I'm sure it probably happened spontaneously with no forethought beforehand.

*disillusioned14* can't see himself staying married to his wife after her behaviour, I think that's understandable. This is the result of her choices and actions so I don't see how that qualifies as burning people at the stake.


----------



## azteca1986

See_Listen_Love said:


> I understand and respect this, but in the case of OP I do not see an EA/PA. *It is hardly to see as a ONS*, based on what OP knows now, because it was a quite open event with multiple acquintances and her sister present. There are no other red flags mentioned, so it is a GNO experience as far as the WW is concerned.


Yeah, if she'd fvcked some random dude in an alleyway, at least she would have got something out of it.

This didn't just happen. She planned it. She paid to blow this guy with friends and family looking on. And for what? what did she get in return for permanently changing the way her husband would look at her?


See_Listen_Love said:


> This is the QED of my point.
> 
> I am a parent yes. Struggling to be a good dad, and accepting relativity as a basic principle.


I don't understand the QED. Care to explain?

Take road safety. We have to deal in absolutes. Always follow these instructions when preparing to cross the road. It's black and white. In a marriage fidelity is black and white. You don't get to suspend it, just because you're not feeling it this morning. 

With our children's safety there are no shades of grey. Performing a public sex act is not a shade of grey either, whether it's once or twenty times.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Explain, again? Really?

Useless to do a lot of trouble typing a serious explanation if it will get deleted, isn't it. Because people are a bit sensitive to reality imho.


----------



## azteca1986

If it's a serious explanation, it wouldn't get deleted would it?


----------



## See_Listen_Love

azteca1986 said:


> If it's a serious explanation, it wouldn't get deleted would it?


What I wrote was dead serious. You must imagine that every society has its taboos, and if you touch them you get burnt. So I got burnt. I have more than once entered a serious discussion where I use only logic and facts, but if people get a feeling where you are going they stop thinking, because they do not want to conclude to the 'unthinkable'.

I really cannot contribute more than that. If you want to check your line of thought you have to find resources about logic, best the ancient Greeks, because their thinking is still widely used as basis for Western philosophy.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Wow this thread has really become complicated!

Here is the simplicity of it all:

WW was a bit of a party girl in the past and gave OP a warning of things to come when she kissed an ex!

WW saw forthcoming bachelorette party as an opportunity to use their funds to hire a hot young bod or two and for the women attending to have their way with these fine young specimens! Standard party girl stuff I would say.

WW thought that the bonds of sisterhood would hold strong and that what happens in the party stays in the party.

WW thoroughly enjoys servicing a young stripper and doesn't think much of it, even if he is the age of her kids - standard party girl stuff.

WW finds that it does get out and is "surprised" that OP was disgusted that she kissed him with those very same lips after blowing the said stripper.

WW is now facing the consequences (that every party girl must run the risk of eventually facing).

See - very simple!


----------



## Locke.Stratos

See_Listen_Love said:


> What I wrote was dead serious. You must imagine that every society has its taboos, and if you touch them you get burnt. So I got burnt. I have more than once entered a serious discussion where I use only logic and facts, but if people get a feeling where you are going they stop thinking, because they do not want to conclude to the 'unthinkable'.
> 
> I really cannot contribute more than that. If you want to check your line of thought you have to find resources about logic, best the ancient Greeks, because their thinking is still widely used as basis for Western philosophy.


Well your logic and "facts" aren't universal. Our logic only appears true when it is within the bounds of our knowledge, the information availabe and known to us and our understanding of it.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Even someone from Belgium can be right sometimes. There is a STRONG "Divorce him/her" for just about all issues on this forum. This is not black and white. It is not an automatic divorceable offense. 

It's just such an UNFORTUNATE infidelity to get caught at.


----------



## GusPolinski

MachoMcCoy said:


> Even someone from Belgium can be right sometimes. There is a STRONG "Divorce him/her" for just about all issues on this forum. *This is not black and white. It is not an automatic divorceable offense.*
> 
> It's just such an UNFORTUNATE infidelity to get caught at.


Maybe not for you, maybe not for SLL, and maybe not for whoever else, but it would appear to be for OP.

And, given the circumstances surrounding this specific incident of infidelity, that's pretty easy to understand.


----------



## Yeswecan

MachoMcCoy said:


> Even someone from Belgium can be right sometimes. There is a STRONG "Divorce him/her" for just about all issues on this forum. *This is not black and white. It is not an automatic divorceable offense. *
> 
> It's just such an UNFORTUNATE infidelity to get caught at.


In my world it is. Nothing unfortunate about it. Decisive.


----------



## G.J.

manfromlamancha said:


> Wow this thread has really become complicated!
> 
> Here is the simplicity of it all:
> 
> WW was a bit of a party girl in the past and gave OP a warning of things to come when she kissed an ex!
> 
> WW saw forthcoming bachelorette party as an opportunity to use their funds to hire a hot young bod or two and for the women attending to have their way with these fine young specimens! Standard party girl stuff I would say.
> 
> WW thought that the bonds of sisterhood would hold strong and that what happens in the party stays in the party.
> 
> WW thoroughly enjoys servicing a young stripper and doesn't think much of it, even if he is the age of her kids - standard party girl stuff.
> 
> WW finds that it does get out and is "surprised" that OP was disgusted that she kissed him with those very same lips after blowing the said stripper.
> 
> WW is now facing the consequences (that every party girl must run the risk of eventually facing).
> 
> See - very simple!


That's certainly ONE VIEW of simplicity....how I wish life was simple


----------



## G.J.

MachoMcCoy said:


> *Even someone from Belgium can be right sometimes.* There is a STRONG "Divorce him/her" for just about all issues on this forum. *This is not black and white*. It is not an automatic divorceable offense.
> 
> It's just such an UNFORTUNATE infidelity to get caught at.


Agree with the bolded part


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Locke.Stratos said:


> Well your logic and "facts" aren't universal. Our logic only appears true when it is within the bounds of our knowledge, the information availabe and known to us and our understanding of it.


Completely agreeing, that is why I believe in relativity.
Yet, the best you can do is use your facts and logic, just like a lawyer or the prosecution build their cases. It is not necessarily true what they make of it, neither is ours. We are all handicapped in our thinking seen from a higher level.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Besides logic and fact I personnaly think love is more important, but then the love the other like you love yourself type of love. Unknown in many societies though.


----------



## Ripper

Well, I've seen just about every manipulation tactic in the book thrown at OP in this thread. 

We have people trying to minimize his wife's actions, throwing out "think about the children" (who are grown adults and agree with him btw), using fear tactics (a.k.a you will be all alone while the kids are with mom), and now some kind of bizarre moral relativity.

What I see is a guy that has busted his ass, worked two jobs at one point to get this woman the lifestyle she desired, overlooked one instance of infidelity and has went a decade without a blow job. What the hell kind of relationship are you people seeing that would be worth saving from his perspective?


----------



## Thor

See_Listen_Love said:


> I understand and respect this, but in the case of OP I do not see an EA/PA. It is hardly to see as a ONS, based on what OP knows now, because it was a quite open event with multiple acquintances and her sister present. There are no other red flags mentioned, so it is a GNO experience as far as the WW is concerned. She lied afterwards because of damage control, en faces serious concequences as a result. I guess she understands now she did wrong and disrespectful to OP.
> 
> Well, I leave it at this, I am afraid OP has made up his mind.


I agree with your read on it being a onetime GNO experience she tried to cover up. This is the least bad kind of PA. If both are dedicated to the R process I think the chances of success are high. I would support anyone who wanted to R.

For me, this would be unrepairable in my marriage. I understand OP's decision to D.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Hmm, I am luckily never been really cheating, but there have been some near misses. Let's say it's not my merit that I did not cheat.

So when my wife would stray like OP's wife I really would have no moral reason to feel any better than her and act like OP is doing. It would be my shame if I did, and I wonder if OP is such a saint that he can do this. 

Well this is weekend, I leave it now.


----------



## GusPolinski

See_Listen_Love said:


> Besides logic and fact I personnaly think love is more important, but then the love the other like you love yourself type of love. Unknown in many societies though.


That's a fair assessment.

Another would be one that includes the fact that OP's WW's love for her husband didn't stop her from willingly taking another man's c*ck into her mouth. And a stripper, no less. Classy.

Additionally, her love for her husband doesn't appear to have been so absolute that she was willing to perform this same act for him.

But hey... I guess the lack of practice turned out not to be such a huge barrier for her.


----------



## GusPolinski

See_Listen_Love said:


> Hmm, I am luckily never been really cheating, but there have been some near misses. Let's say it's not my merit that I did not cheat.
> 
> So when my wife would stray like OP's wife I really would have no moral reason to feel any better than her and act like OP is doing. It would be my shame if I did, and I wonder if OP is such a saint that he can do this.
> 
> Well this is weekend, I leave it now.


IOW, the fact that you haven't _technically_ cheated hasn't been for a lack of effort on your part. :lol: :rofl:

If nothing else, it's good to know where we stand.


----------



## Yeswecan

Ripper said:


> Well, I've seen just about every manipulation tactic in the book thrown at OP in this thread.
> 
> We have people trying to minimize his wife's actions, throwing out "think about the children" (who are grown adults and agree with him btw), using fear tactics (a.k.a you will be all alone while the kids are with mom), and now some kind of bizarre moral relativity.
> 
> What I see is a guy that has busted his ass, worked two jobs at one point to get this woman the lifestyle she desired, overlooked one instance of infidelity and has went a decade without a blow job. What the hell kind of relationship are you people seeing that would be worth saving from his perspective?


Amen brother.


----------



## Chaparral

Ripper said:


> Well, I've seen just about every manipulation tactic in the book thrown at OP in this thread.
> 
> We have people trying to minimize his wife's actions, throwing out "think about the children" (who are grown adults and agree with him btw), using fear tactics (a.k.a you will be all alone while the kids are with mom), and now some kind of bizarre moral relativity.
> 
> What I see is a guy that has busted his ass, worked two jobs at one point to get this woman the lifestyle she desired, overlooked one instance of infidelity and has went a decade without a blow job. What the hell kind of relationship are you people seeing that would be worth saving from his perspective?


I don't think anyone has suggested OP doesn't have the moral right to divorce over her BJ. It is irritating to see people make assumptions about her actions that the op has not provided. For example there was no evidence from the op about her intentions to give a bj before it actually happened. Yet posters are stating this was obviously planned in advance.

Anyway, compared to the thousands of cases of infidelity we've seen here and the multitude of reconciliations that have taken place, this example seems to be the least offensive case of infidelity I have seen. Others may agree since they are piling on and exaggerating what actually has been posted as happening.

Everyone has a right to divorce, for any reason. It just looks to me like there may be more to this but maybe not. I'm really glad I haven't ran into this problem personally. The fallout is from her actions is killer. Family and friends blown apart is a lifetime long consequence. That the kids are grown has zero effect on that.


----------



## Yeswecan

See_Listen_Love said:


> Hmm, I am luckily never been really cheating, but there have been some near misses. Let's say it's not my merit that I did not cheat.
> 
> So when my wife would stray like OP's wife I really would have no moral reason to feel any better than her and act like OP is doing. It would be my shame if I did, and I wonder if OP is such a saint that he can do this.
> 
> Well this is weekend, I leave it now.


The OP may not me a saint but he understands in life there are two things they cannot take from him. His good name and education. He has moral backbone. I support his decision 100%.


----------



## Yeswecan

Chaparral said:


> Everyone has a right to divorce, for any reason.


Never a truer statement. This nonsense that OP should simply overlook this act of infidelity is ridiculas. Never mind the cover up, taking of money and lies.


----------



## MarriedTex

Amplexor said:


> Thread Jack Cleaned Up.


Hey Amp, Now that we're on Page 15, is it time to get the broom out again?


----------



## carmen ohio

IMO, some of the posters who are urging the OP to give his WW a second chance are overlooking (1) how the OP feels about that she has done and (2) the question he has asked:



disillusioned14 said:


> . . . I'm getting some pressure to reconcile with my wife of 23 years, but *I just can't see it* . . .
> 
> She ended up blowing the guy who showed up at the party. She also arranged for him to be there and used money from our account to pay him. He's a freaking year or two older than our son and both of our kids are in college . . .
> 
> She tried lying about everything to me . . .
> 
> I caught her lying and *it was beyond awful* . . . she had me believeing that I knew everything and then I find out that while she was preganant with our son, after we were married, she kissed an old boyfriend when she was "visiting" her parents.
> 
> I've read enough to know that kissed could be a lie . . . I just can't believe that the person I invested my life with could do this and *the times she looked me in the eye and lied without blinking have killed our marriage graveyard dead. *
> 
> She is begging and pleading, she has tried everything to convince me that she only wants me, she's offered me whatever I want in the bedroom and *I'm just not interested any more.* It is somehwat confusing to me as I have always been atrracted to her and have definitely been the one to pursue sex in our relationship, *now she just isn't appealing. All I can think about is some other d-bags junk in her mouth and the never ending lies* . . .
> 
> All I want is a fair divorce. * I feel completely duped and our marriage is no longer special to me* . . .
> 
> 
> *Am I wrong to not reconcile?* . . .


It's quite clear from what the OP has said that he is extremely troubled by his WW's infidelity and her subsequent dishonesty. This is how he feels about it. The fact that others may not feel as strongly seems to me to be irrelevant.

The OP asks if it is wrong for him _"not to reconcile."_ I don't believe anybody on this thread would say _"yes."_ Hence, the fact that others would choose to reconcile is also irrelevant.

But there's another matter that the pro-reconciliation posters seem to be overlooking: 



> Anyone with experience on how long it will took for their spouse to accept the D process and to stop *fighting it every step of the way*?


IMO, being genuinely remorseful for having wronged someone means accepting the wronged party's decisions about how to deal with the wrong and how to attempt to heal from it. If I destroyed someone's property, apologized, but then attempted to avoid making restitution, one might reasonably conclude that my apology was less than sincere and likely merely an attempt to avoid taking responsibility for my actions.

That, it seems to me, is what is going on here and, I am guessing, this is playing at least a part in the OP's decision not to reconcile.

IMO, not only is this his right, given all of the facts as the OP has presented them, it seems like a reasonable decision.


----------



## sidney2718

manfromlamancha said:


> Wow this thread has really become complicated!
> 
> Here is the simplicity of it all:
> 
> WW was a bit of a party girl in the past and gave OP a warning of things to come when she kissed an ex!
> 
> WW saw forthcoming bachelorette party as an opportunity to use their funds to hire a hot young bod or two and for the women attending to have their way with these fine young specimens! Standard party girl stuff I would say.
> 
> WW thought that the bonds of sisterhood would hold strong and that what happens in the party stays in the party.
> 
> WW thoroughly enjoys servicing a young stripper and doesn't think much of it, even if he is the age of her kids - standard party girl stuff.
> 
> WW finds that it does get out and is "surprised" that OP was disgusted that she kissed him with those very same lips after blowing the said stripper.
> 
> WW is now facing the consequences (that every party girl must run the risk of eventually facing).
> 
> See - very simple!


It is very simple, but possibly not accurate.

There are some questions. First, how common is the rowdy bachelorette party in the area in which the OP lives. Second, I believe it was stated that several ladies participated in the oral part of the entertainment. That leads me to think that this sort of thing is not as strange or uncommon as we might think. Certainly rowdy bachelor parties are common everywhere.

As for "stealing money", etc., that seems to be to be off base. The wife was to run a party for the bride-to-be at another woman's house. The money was for the party. This was planned to be part of the party.

Which brings me to the third thing: whose idea was it to invite the men to the party? Who else knew that they were coming? I strongly doubt that the wife thought it all up by herself and sprang it on an unsuspecting group.

I strongly suspect that the party became very exuberant and the generally rowdy atmosphere helped everybody who took part.

Please note that I am not saying that the OP should not divorce. What I AM saying that he should not act in haste lest he repent at leisure.


----------



## Yeswecan

sidney2718 said:


> It is very simple, but possibly not accurate.
> 
> There are some questions. First, how common is the rowdy bachelorette party in the area in which the OP lives. Second, I believe it was stated that several ladies participated in the oral part of the entertainment. That leads me to think that this sort of thing is not as strange or uncommon as we might think. Certainly rowdy bachelor parties are common everywhere.
> 
> As for "stealing money", etc., that seems to be to be off base. The wife was to run a party for the bride-to-be at another woman's house. The money was for the party. This was planned to be part of the party.
> 
> Which brings me to the third thing: whose idea was it to invite the men to the party? Who else knew that they were coming? I strongly doubt that the wife thought it all up by herself and sprang it on an unsuspecting group.
> 
> I strongly suspect that the party became very exuberant and the generally rowdy atmosphere helped everybody who took part.
> 
> Please note that I am not saying that the OP should not divorce. What I AM saying that he should not act in haste lest he repent at leisure.


And if said OP went to a bacherlor party and dinned on the female stripper of the evening and went home kissing his W upon the return what reaction would said W have? I can assure you I would be dead where I stand. 

I really do not get why there is even a discussion about it. The OP has his deal killer. Sucking off a stripper is his deal breaker. Does not matter how, when and why. That simple.


----------



## LongWalk

OP's decision is perfectly understandable. SLL's point, as I perceive it, is that this gross moral failing may over time diminish in importance to society, leaving the OP to end up divorced but unable to completely detach because love is not rational and can surge up again. In which case, perhaps quitting the cheater is not so neat a break. 

I think Thor wrote something about GNO. In fact, this WW believed that the institution of a last bash sanctioned extra marital sex. She was mistaken.

Will his WW become an a sad promiscuous woman, estranged from her flesh and blood, a harlot unwelcome at family gatherings?


----------



## GusPolinski

LongWalk said:


> I think Thor wrote something about GNO. In fact, this WW believed that the institution of a last bash sanctioned extra marital sex.


Personally, I take issue with this sentiment. After all, most folks commit to exclusivity -- both emotionally AND physically -- long before the question is popped.



LongWalk said:


> Will his WW become an a sad promiscuous woman, estranged from her flesh and blood, a harlot unwelcome at family gatherings?



Hopefully not.


----------



## lifeistooshort

The problem with reconciling in this case is that it would be a business arrangement. She's not that into him but needs him to pay bills. I suspect he's known this for a long time, but they had kids and he was attracted to her.

Now the kids are grown and thanks to her little games he really doesn't want her. One could make the argument, if she'd held up her end, that he made a promise. But she didn't, she went and had her fun, so why should he continue to live in a business arrangement of it isn't what he wants? She'd probably give up some sex, at least for a while, but he doesn't want it. She should've considered her lifestyle before her dalliance, but it likely never occurred to her he'd pull the plug. That's her problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

See_Listen_Love said:


> Hmm, I am luckily never been really cheating, but there have been some near misses. Let's say it's not my merit that I did not cheat.
> 
> So when my wife would stray like OP's wife I really would have no moral reason to feel any better than her and act like OP is doing. It would be my shame if I did, and I wonder if OP is such a saint that he can do this.
> 
> Well this is weekend, I leave it now.


You are a strange egg. If you are ok with kissing your wife right after she had a hired "gun" in her mouth then just say it. Most think it sucks! Pun intended.

Also. I'm not perfect but I never cheated. That is a deal breaker for me and wouldn't do it to anyone.

Do you have comprehension issues?

You are trying to make it sound like OP is in the wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan

lifeistooshort said:


> The problem with reconciling in this case is that it would be a business arrangement. She's not that into him but needs him to pay bills. I suspect he's known this for a long time, but they had kids and he was attracted to her.
> 
> Now the kids are grown and thanks to her little games he really doesn't want her. One could make the argument, if she'd held up her end, that he made a promise. But she didn't, she went and had her fun, so why should he continue to live in a business arrangement of it isn't what he wants? She'd probably give up some sex, at least for a while, but he doesn't want it. She should've considered her lifestyle before her dalliance, but it likely never occurred to her he'd pull the plug. That's her problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The thing in this thread that keeps echoing is the "acceptance" of these things happen at these "kinds" of parties. As such the OP should consider his options before a rash decision. Because...well...it happens at these kinds of parties. I can say it does not in my world. If this happened to me I would have D papers written up so fast the ink would not be even dry the day it is served.


----------



## morituri

sidney2718 said:


> As for "stealing money", etc., that seems to be to be off base. The wife was to run a party for the bride-to-be at another woman's house. The money was for the party. This was planned to be part of the party


sidney,

So called "male strippers" are for the most part, male prostitutes and the people who hire them know this full well. This is not the case, for the most part, with female strippers who perform a strip tease and dance seductively but never allow the male audience to lick their genitals nor give them PIV sex.

The money is community property and she had a moral obligation to be open and honest by asking her husband if she could use the money to help hire a "male stripper". As far as we know, she didn't do it, so that would qualify it as stealing. And even if she did, I suspect that the OP would have been very reluctant, like most husbands, in going along and sanctioning that request. Especially in light of what "male strippers" truly are, prostitutes.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Yeswecan said:


> The thing in this thread that keeps echoing is the "acceptance" of these things happen at these "kinds" of parties. As such the OP should consider his options before a rash decision.  Because...well...it happens at these kinds of parties. I can say it does not in my world. If this happened to me I would have D papers written up so fast the ink would not be even dry the day it is served.


Yeah, not in my world either. I was actually discussing this with my hb yesterday and he said they'd likely been drifting apart and this gave him the boost he needed to end things. He felt like a guy who was really in love with his wife might be able to forgive her, but one who he's been growing apart from and who hasn't given him a bj in years? Not so much. 

When I mentioned the coming home and kissing him he flinched and looked disgusted.

This stuff doesn't just happen, and if it does there's no reason plan such parties.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manfromlamancha

sidney2718 said:


> It is very simple, but possibly not accurate.
> 
> There are some questions. First, how common is the rowdy bachelorette party in the area in which the OP lives. Second, I believe it was stated that several ladies participated in the oral part of the entertainment. That leads me to think that this sort of thing is not as strange or uncommon as we might think. Certainly rowdy bachelor parties are common everywhere.
> 
> As for "stealing money", etc., that seems to be to be off base. The wife was to run a party for the bride-to-be at another woman's house. The money was for the party. This was planned to be part of the party.
> 
> Which brings me to the third thing: whose idea was it to invite the men to the party? Who else knew that they were coming? I strongly doubt that the wife thought it all up by herself and sprang it on an unsuspecting group.
> 
> I strongly suspect that the party became very exuberant and the generally rowdy atmosphere helped everybody who took part.
> 
> Please note that I am not saying that the OP should not divorce. What I AM saying that he should not act in haste lest he repent at leisure.



Do not agree that it is inaccurate.


I am not saying that these things do not happen. They probably are quite common. And many ladies may have been in on it. Heck it may even be the norm for this to happen.

However ...

It is also the norm for divorces to take place when husbands find out. 

Sure they could try reconciliation where they work on whatever issues she might have that compels her to take a strippers d!ck into her mouth but quite understandable if he doesn't want to. 

Especially since she believed that all would have been well if she only got away with it.

And I didn't say that she stole the money - just used family funds to pay for her piece of ****! Sure and for the other ladies' benefit too - still not good. 

Why not say to all of them, since we all would like to suck on ****'s at this party (else it will be no fun) lets all pool our money in to pay for this.

And then also suggest to the husbands that since this is what they were planning to do, perhaps the menfolk should go ahead and organise getting lap dances to equal the score - you know since it is commonly accepted that this sort of thing happens at bachelorette parties.

Jeez!!!!

Seems pretty black and white to me - what is the benefit of him reconciling at this stage - with someone who doesn't love or respect him and only wants him for the paycheck! And is a confirmed "normal" party girl.


----------



## carmen ohio

sidney2718 said:


> It is very simple, but possibly not accurate.
> 
> There are some questions. First, *how common is the rowdy bachelorette party in the area in which the OP lives.* Second, I believe it was stated that several ladies participated in the oral part of the entertainment. That leads me to think that *this sort of thing is not as strange or uncommon as we might think.* Certainly rowdy bachelor parties are common everywhere.
> 
> As for "stealing money", etc., that seems to be to be off base. The wife was to run a party for the bride-to-be at another woman's house. *The money was for the party.* This was planned to be part of the party.
> 
> Which brings me to the third thing: whose idea was it to invite the men to the party? Who else knew that they were coming? *I strongly doubt that the wife thought it all up by herself* and sprang it on an unsuspecting group.
> 
> *I strongly suspect that the party became very exuberant and the generally rowdy atmosphere helped everybody who took part.*
> 
> Please note that I am not saying that the OP should not divorce. What I AM saying that *he should not act in haste* lest he repent at leisure.


Sydney, let's apply your _'logic'_ to our marriages. If you or I arranged our brother's bachelor party, shelled out money for a stripper and got a beejay, what do you think our wives would do if we told them:

1) Bachelor parties around these parts are usually _'rowdy,'_

2) Guys get beejays all the time at bachelor parties,

3) The money I spent was just for the stripper to show up, the beejay was free so it's not like I spent our family money on it,

4) It wasn't just my idea, other guys thought it a good idea to hire a stripper,

5) I just got carried away in the moment when the party got _'exuberant.'_

Would your wife would give you a one-time free pass? I know mine wouldn't, nor would I expect her to.

BTW, the OP is not acting in haste. This all transpired last year and he took the trouble to post here in order to get others' opinions, asking, _"Am I wrong to not reconcile?"_

People should stop treating the OP like a child. He knows what he's doing and his decision is well within the range of normal responses to what his WW did.


----------



## morituri

carmen ohio said:


> The money I spent was just for the stripper to show up, the beejay was free so it's not like I spent our family money on it,


I strongly disagree.

If that money used to *secretly* hire the "male stripper" came from the wages you and/or your spouse received from work, then it is stealing. 

If the sexual roles were reversed, would a working wife be happy if her SAHH, *without her approval*, used that money she worked hard for, to hire a female prostitute for a bachelor party? Of course she wouldn't, and she would be right:

1. Because it would imply that her husband would be helping to create an environment where infidelity would be fostered and which could involve him breaking his marital vows.

2. Because that money belonged to BOTH and any questionable purchases need to be talked about by BOTH spouses and agreed to BEFORE the purchases are made.

Disillusion's WW not only stole from the family funds but from her husband's love bank as well.


----------



## GusPolinski

sidney2718 said:


> It is very simple, but possibly not accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> There are some questions. First, how common is the rowdy bachelorette party in the area in which the OP lives. Second, I believe it was stated that several ladies participated in the oral part of the entertainment. That leads me to think that this sort of thing is not as strange or uncommon as we might think. Certainly rowdy bachelor parties are common everywhere.


And precisely why should any of this matter? Everyone else does it so it doesn't matter? What a load of amoral crap.





sidney2718 said:


> As for "stealing money", etc., that seems to be to be off base. The wife was to run a party for the bride-to-be at another woman's house. The money was for the party. This was planned to be part of the party.


If OP were OK with the money having been spent in such a fashion, I'd agree with you. But he clearly isn't. And let's not forget that she hid that she'd arranged for this -- along w/ the somewhat methodical way in which she chose to do it -- from her husband.



sidney2718 said:


> Which brings me to the third thing: whose idea was it to invite the men to the party? Who else knew that they were coming? I strongly doubt that the wife thought it all up by herself and sprang it on an unsuspecting group.


OP has stated this his wife arranged and paid for the event. It would therefore stand to reason that she arranged for the evening's "entertainment". And this is made all the more plausible by the fact that she paid for it.



sidney2718 said:


> I strongly suspect that the party became very exuberant and the generally rowdy atmosphere helped everybody who took part.



That's a cold comfort to the betrayed.


----------



## LongWalk

Everyone is in agreement pretty much. Oral sex in front of others at a raunchy party celebrating a woman's life long commitment to monogamy is itself fornication.

One could go further to say that the women who did not leave but watched the entertainment also betrayed their spouses.

OP's decision to end his marriage is completely logical and rational.

It is possible — and I am not putting a percentage on it — that OP's wife may now love her husband since she is losing him. She may even wish passionately to perform oral sex on him, but he is done. 

So it goes. Shamwow played online games with his WW while separated. He still had an emotional attachment but he never allowed sex to occur again.


----------



## Thor

Yeswecan said:


> The thing in this thread that keeps echoing is the "acceptance" of these things happen at these "kinds" of parties. As such the OP should consider his options before a rash decision. Because...well...it happens at these kinds of parties. I can say it does not in my world. If this happened to me I would have D papers written up so fast the ink would not be even dry the day it is served.


I'm not hearing that it should be accepted because these things happen at these parties. What I am hearing is that this situation is not the typical affair. Nor is there evidence of multiple GNO transgressions. This appears to be a one-off event. All put together it is probably the most survivable type of sexual infidelity, but only if both spouses are determined to make R work.

If OP were saying he is uncertain or confused, I would be advising to make no decision just yet. But, OP is clear this is a deal breaker for him. He is fully justified in that position, and fully justified in moving quickly to D.


----------



## ThePheonix

See_Listen_Love said:


> Hmm, I am luckily never been really cheating, but there have been some near misses. Let's say it's not my merit that I did not cheat.
> 
> So when my wife would stray like OP's wife I really would have no moral reason to feel any better than her and act like OP is doing.


You may as well admit it my man, neither you or your wife are really that crazy about each other.




Yeswecan said:


> Sucking off a stripper is his deal breaker. Does not matter how, when and why. That simple.


Don't be so hasty to judge. The women participating were women of taste. And the stripper tasted a lot like chicken, or canned whipped topping actually..


----------



## morituri

The wellbeing of the BS takes precedence over marital recovery. Some can't recover while being married and some can. The OP is of the "can't" camp. No shame in that just as there is no shame if he was of the other camp.


----------



## where_are_we

morituri said:


> sidney,
> 
> So called "male strippers" are for the most part, male prostitutes and the people who hire them know this full well. This is not the case, for the most part, with female strippers who perform a strip tease and dance seductively but never allow the male audience to lick their genitals nor give them PIV sex..


Actually, my husband has attended a party where there were two female strippers. There was genital licking included in the price after the girls had sex with each other. THEN, for an additional cost the men could have full on sex, and some did.

So I would add that so called female strippers are for the most part, prostitutes.


----------



## italianjob

While it's true the act in itself is of minor relevance compared to many other stories we've seen, I don't think this betrayal was really that "minor" after all. 
The story as it's been told show a heartlessness and a coldness in preparing and perpetrating the deed that would make me choose the same route of the OP.
While it's true that Emotional attachement makes it hard to come back and reconcile for the couple, I don't know how you can recover your respect for a spouse behaving like OP's wife. It would be impossible for me, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## Dogbert

This one is moving too fast for any cheating wife to ravage his junk.


----------



## carmen ohio

morituri said:


> I strongly disagree.
> 
> If that money used to *secretly* hire the "male stripper" came from the wages you and/or your spouse received from work, then it is stealing.
> 
> If the sexual roles were reversed, would a working wife be happy if her SAHH, *without her approval*, used that money she worked hard for, to hire a female prostitute for a bachelor party? Of course she wouldn't, and she would be right:
> 
> 1. Because it would imply that her husband would be helping to create an environment where infidelity would be fostered and which could involve him breaking his marital vows.
> 
> 2. Because that money belonged to BOTH and any questionable purchases need to be talked about by BOTH spouses and agreed to BEFORE the purchases are made.
> 
> Disillusion's WW not only stole from the family funds but from her husband's love bank as well.


Not sure why you're disagreeing, morituri.

I think we're saying the same thing -- that there's no excuse for her spending family money to hire a male stripper and then give him a beejay.


----------



## morituri

carmen ohio said:


> Not sure why you're disagreeing, morituri.
> 
> I think we're saying the same thing -- that there's no excuse for her spending family money to hire a male stripper and then give him a beejay.


I stand corrected. I see now that you were being facetious with sidney's comment, and logic, as applied to OP's situation.

But with regards to those that say that her taking the marital money to hire the male prostitute without asking her husband first, wasn't stealing, I definitely and vehemently disagree.


----------



## ThePheonix

Dogbert said:


> This one is moving too fast for any cheating wife to ravage his junk.



They'd think that's a jaw dropping performance.


----------



## lifeistooshort

morituri said:


> I stand corrected. I see now that you were being facetious with sidney's comment, and logic, as applied to OP's situation.
> 
> But with regards to those that say that her taking the marital money to hire the male prostitute without asking her husband first, wasn't stealing, I definitely and vehemently disagree.



I disagree, I don't think this falls under stealing. First, let me point out that if you read my posts you'll see that I think what she did is disgusting and he's well within his rights to get rid of her. 

But "stealing" implies she took what wasn't hers to take. It's marital money and thus is hers to take. The issue is what she did with it and how she hid it..... if she'd spend it to get her hair done we wouldn't be having this conversation. Depending on what kind of understanding they have with regards to discretionary funds she can take money out, just as he can. 

The issue here is that she used it set up a nasty party where she could have her fun. The money really is a secondary issue, though it supports that she planned the whole thing. Would he feel differently if the others had paid? His wife still would've sucked another man. 

Inappropriate and trashy? Yes. Divorce worthy? Yes. Stealing? No.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

Im pretty sure if she's simply taken the money and paid the entertainment, without becoming part of the entertainment, we'd never heard from our man Disillusioned.


----------



## Nucking Futs

I agree, using marital funds for this was not stealing. However, it was *using marital assets on her lover* so in the divorce what she spent on that party should be deducted from her half.

There's an actual legal phrase for the part in bold but unfortunately during the night my tiny little brain fell out one of my pores and I haven't found it yet.


----------



## morituri

Nucking Futs said:


> I agree, using marital funds for this was not stealing. However, it was *using marital assets on her lover* so in the divorce what she spent on that party should be deducted from her half.
> 
> There's an actual legal phrase for the part in bold but unfortunately during the night my tiny little brain fell out one of my pores and I haven't found it yet.


It is called *marital asset dissipation* and if the OP lives in "at fault" divorce State, it may help him in his divorce. He needs to talk to a divorce attorney about this.

Her misusing the money to secretly hire a male stripper may not be stealing in legal terms, but in moral and ethical terms, it definitely is.


----------



## lifeistooshort

morituri said:


> It is called *marital asset dissipation* and if the OP lives in "at fault" divorce State, it may help him in his divorce. He needs to talk to a divorce attorney about this.
> 
> Her misusing the money to secretly hire a male stripper may not be stealing in legal terms, but in moral and ethical terms, it definitely is.



Well the court certainly can factor that into the judgement, the attorney will help him. 

I agree that it's shady and from a moral perspective he should get it back. 

Based on his tone I doubt he cares, sounds like he just wants out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

I think there are dealbreakers and then just things that add insult to injury.

The bj was the deal breaker. The paying for it just adds to the pile of hurt, outrage, and indignation for OP.

I believe it is perfectly understandable to be done when you feel you are done. It is OP's life, not the life of the people urging him to reconcile. I very much sympathize with him. I am like him in this regard and can understand.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

alte Dame said:


> The bj was the deal breaker. The paying for it just adds to the pile of hurt, outrage, and indignation for OP.


I think the kiss pushed him over the edge. I know it seems minor to some, but really? 7 months after infidelity, you find out your spouse kissed an ex on a family visit. Sorry, for me, it would throw every visit into question over that 20 year period. Irrational? Maybe, but it is new to him in the midst of an already awkward "do I really know my wife" situation.


----------



## sidney2718

Yeswecan said:


> The thing in this thread that keeps echoing is the "acceptance" of these things happen at these "kinds" of parties. As such the OP should consider his options before a rash decision. Because...well...it happens at these kinds of parties. I can say it does not in my world. If this happened to me I would have D papers written up so fast the ink would not be even dry the day it is served.


Can't disagree. What bothers me is that this route is so simple I have to ask "why is the OP here?". I think he came here for validation of his desire to divorce, which means he's got some questions left in his mind.

I think that it is our job to offer support and advice. I've seen threads here in which the OP regretted the fast decision to divorce. I'd not blame the OP if he did divorce but I'd like him to be sure of his decision in his own mind.


----------



## sidney2718

carmen ohio said:


> Sydney, let's apply your _'logic'_ to our marriages. If you or I arranged our brother's bachelor party, shelled out money for a stripper and got a beejay, what do you think our wives would do if we told them:
> 
> 1) Bachelor parties around these parts are usually _'rowdy,'_
> 
> 2) Guys get beejays all the time at bachelor parties,
> 
> 3) The money I spent was just for the stripper to show up, the beejay was free so it's not like I spent our family money on it,
> 
> 4) It wasn't just my idea, other guys thought it a good idea to hire a stripper,
> 
> 5) I just got carried away in the moment when the party got _'exuberant.'_
> 
> Would your wife would give you a one-time free pass? I know mine wouldn't, nor would I expect her to.
> 
> BTW, the OP is not acting in haste. This all transpired last year and he took the trouble to post here in order to get others' opinions, asking, _"Am I wrong to not reconcile?"_


Which indicates to me that he's not at all certain that getting divorced is the right thing to do.



> People should stop treating the OP like a child. He knows what he's doing and his decision is well within the range of normal responses to what his WW did.


I might also add that in my time I've known of a fair number of bachelor parties in which strippers were involved and "things happened". I've even heard of this happening in bachelorette parties as well, but much less often. That's why I asked about what usually went on the the OP's area of the country. Things do vary.


----------



## sidney2718

GusPolinski said:


> And precisely why should any of this matter? Everyone else does it so it doesn't matter? What a load of amoral crap.


That seems to be the OP's view. I will note that the OP did not report that any real number of guests left the party in disgust. They all seemed to be quite happy with things.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

sidney2718 said:


> I will note that the OP did not report that any real number of guests left the party in disgust.


Define real? 



> She got busted because *some* of the women at the party were disgusted and rumors flew.





disillusioned14 said:


> Thanks again everyone.
> *There were 11 women there. *
> 
> *Some of the women left when things got nasty.* Unfortunately instead of leaving my wife participated.


Some, out of the eleven, left.


----------



## GusPolinski

sidney2718 said:


> That seems to be the OP's view. I will note that the OP did not report that any real number of guests left the party in disgust. They all seemed to be quite happy with things.


IIRC, OP mentioned that quite a few left once things started getting inappropriate.

And as for "happy"? LOL... do you actually think it was one of the wives that let the stripper tickle her tonsils that spilled the beans?


----------



## May1968

I suspect that the wives who spilled the beans may have also felt that such actions could have been deal breakers for them and thus they told.


----------



## bfree

May1968 said:


> I suspect that the wives who spilled the beans may have also felt that such actions could have been deal breakers for them and thus they told.


You mean they actually had morals and character. I agree.


----------



## ThePheonix

Besides, there's a big spread between watching the show and participating in it. I suspect some did more than tell. They likely showed it to their old man et.al. on their cell phone screens.
Old Disillusioned now understands why the folks around town were looking at him funny the past several months.
Most regretted words of a rowdy wife, "hold my drink and watch this girlfriend".


----------



## May1968

Nothing like being humiliated, if he divorces his wife he can regain some dignity much quicker.


----------



## May1968

Since most betrayals are in the shadows and not known to others;
many betrayed spouses debate as to how much exposure of their partners infidelity they should make, realizing that if they decide to reconcile such exposure will make it that much harder to resume a normal life.

In this case the exposure is already out there.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Nothing like being humiliated, if he divorces his wife he can regain some dignity much quicker."

I find it bewildering and sad that BS's feel this way.

A BS never has anything to be humiliated about concerning their WS's crappy choices.

The only humiliation a BS has is if they rugsweep the A and desperately accept any of WS's blameshifting or demands for R....and this is entirely a self-inflicted wound.


----------



## morituri

May1968 said:


> Nothing like being humiliated, if he divorces his wife he can regain some dignity much quicker.


Either way, it isn't an issue of dignity nor being humiliated, it is about healing. Sometimes the healing gets hindered by the continuation of the marriage.


----------



## LongWalk

Of course the BS is very likely humiliated. Perhaps he should not. Divorce is certainly a means of distancing oneself from a spouse's flagrant public misbehavior.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

ConanHub said:


> You are a strange egg. If you are ok with kissing your wife right after she had a hired "gun" in her mouth then just say it. Most think it sucks! Pun intended.
> 
> Also. I'm not perfect but I never cheated. That is a deal breaker for me and wouldn't do it to anyone.
> 
> Do you have comprehension issues?
> 
> You are trying to make it sound like OP is in the wrong.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, your insults are a bit much for me. I'll try to disregard them. Every word I say is honestly mentioned. Why not leave the cynism behind and talk honest.

I have seen many people in many cases judge hard on items and in the first instance they are in the same situation....they choose very selfish and very bad for themselves.

So that is why try to make people aware of the imho incorrect assumption there is the difference of people who are saints and who are sinners. We all are the same one.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

ThePheonix said:


> You may as well admit it my man, neither you or your wife are really that crazy about each other.


In contrary, we are one of the one in ten that stay in love even after so many years.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Mr Disillusioned - yoo hoo, Mr Disillusioned - are you still there? They're making this complicated again!

Seriously, hope you are well, coping and taking care of yourself.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

It is quit simple, OP was only checking if he was right in his decision, and about everybody voted for divorce, so it ended well in about everybodies eyes.


----------



## Yeswecan

See_Listen_Love said:


> It is quit simple, OP was only checking if he was right in his decision, and about everybody voted for divorce, so it ended well in about everybodies eyes.


Did it end well in everyone's eyes? We cannot make that assumption. Ending well would probably mean forgiving, forgetting, growing from it and moving on as a married couple. However, some action taken by a few spouses preclude any chance of forgiving, forgetting, growing from it and moving on as a married couple. Or as we know it, deal breaker. Sometimes people need to stand by their moral fiber and foundation. This is one of those times.


----------



## Roselyn

Disullusioned14: Any updates?


----------



## disillusioned14

Thanks to all who have posted. I took a break from TAM for a while.

I followed thru with a call to both kids and have started the process of D. It will not be cheap, but will be money well spent. 

I also called the wife and told her what I was doing. She got very quiet and cried. She has been texting emailing calling and coming to see me promising everything I wanted while we were married and begging for another chance. Her family has also offered to repay me the money she spent on the kid. I refused. It's not really about the money. Thats just another insult on the pile from my end and her family is not wealthy.

Her sister came to see me. She went ape **** nuclear on me. Said I was trying to ruin her sister, embarass her, etc. She said I should be standing by my wife not throwing stones and called me a prick. 

I told her that if she ever spoke to me that way again I was going to ask her husband if he got a kiss that night like I did and how that made him feel. I almost used the suggestion earlier about what she could use her mouth for instead of *****ing at me. Now I kind of wish I had.

Her family is concerned as is she. She's never been on her own and she is very worried about that part. Was she not into me as suggested by some posters. I'd have to yes, but it took me a while to come to that conclusion. I guess I'm slow.

Were we drifting apart? Not from my end, at least not until this came to light.

I received a PM suggesting a polygraph. I asked her if she'd take one to back up her claims she agreed instantly and asked when we could go. I think I know it all now, but who knows. Even with what I do know, assuming that is it, I still want out. A lie detctor test cant fix that.

How common are these types of parties where we live. I never heard of something like this before, but there must be a market or there wouldn't be a guy to hire for it.


----------



## ConanHub

See_Listen_Love said:


> Well, your insults are a bit much for me. I'll try to disregard them. Every word I say is honestly mentioned. Why not leave the cynism behind and talk honest.
> 
> I have seen many people in many cases judge hard on items and in the first instance they are in the same situation....they choose very selfish and very bad for themselves.
> 
> So that is why try to make people aware of the imho incorrect assumption there is the difference of people who are saints and who are sinners. We all are the same one.


Not insulting you at all. Just reading you back your own advice.

As for seeing what people are capable of, I have seen most of it by age ten. Negligent homicide, rape, kidnap, extortion, abuse, prostitution, torture, betrayal and infidelity.

I know what I am capable of and cheating on my wife isn't in my repertoire.

We aren't all the same. The bastards from my childhood are pathetic human beings who deserve capital punishment. I am nothing like them. You have empty philosophy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Disillusioned,

Your thread caused a bit controversy. I think you have thought things over and have made a decision that is good for you. Your wife's reaction shows that she has got the message. 

You can tell your wife that you'd like an amicable divorce. Try to work out a fair settlement to avoid enriching a couple of lawyers. Treat your wife with some compassion. She has ruined her life. No point in rubbing it in.

You can always ask out to before the divorce becomes final to see whether her remorse makes her more acceptable as a partner. You don't have to discuss your feelings with others.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Well done for coming to the decision you did - it cannot have been easy.

This kind of party does exist and yes, there is a market for these stripping studs. However, the women who "relax their boundaries" at these parties fall into three groups - single and free, married or in relationships but are not into their husbands and should be single and free, and those that have their husbands permission and/or swingers (smallest percentage).

I guess one of the results you would need is to get the truth from her and by this, I do not mean about what she did at the party but also the simple fact that she was (and probably hasn't been) into you for some time (for whatever reason). And this probably made it easier for her to "relax" her boundaries. 

Is she is brave enough to face this and admit it, it will make moving on for you both that much easier.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

disillusioned14 said:


> How common are these types of parties where we live. I never heard of something like this before, but there must be a market or there wouldn't be a guy to hire for it.


Go to a site called "beeg.com". Type "CFNM" in the search box, turn off your safe search, hit "enter". Prepare for an education.

I used to wonder if these were staged or not. Thanks to your thread, I now know.

Next project for you: Find out which gal got the facial. That's the big climax, pun intended.


----------



## farsidejunky

I think her sisters reaction is telling. What a piece of work. 

Does your STBX see it the same way? Or is the toxicity from her sister carrying over?

Either way, you are clearly doing what you must. 

The only thing I would encourage at this point is to be fair to her in the divorce. She knows she screwed up. 

Best of luck, brother.


----------



## G.J.

disillusioned14 said:


> I received a PM suggesting a polygraph. I asked her if she'd take one to back up her claims she agreed instantly and asked when we could go. I think I know it all now, but who knows. Even with what I do know, assuming that is it, I still want out. A lie detctor test cant fix that.
> 
> How common are these types of parties where we live. I never heard of something like this before, but there must be a market or there wouldn't be a guy to hire for it.


Poly would be a waste of money if your not remotely interested either now or possibly in the future to see if R is a possibility.

Her sex drive to you could be low because she simply has a low sex drive as some women have but after watching some of the vids linked by one 
of the above posters the herd mentality does seem prevalent in these type of pathetic gatherings and peer pressure and encouragement would have played a big part
*YES ITS NO EXCUSE AT ALL*...but its a strong possibility to explain the why

She sounds very remorseful so R in the future may work

If you decide to go ahead it will cost you around £400 in the U.K.BUT contact the police and try to see who they can recommend as a *good result relies on the examiner*

Get her family to cough up the money


----------



## G.J.

just an add

Women in general aren't as sexual visually as men and need a lot more time spent on courting and foreplay which doesn't always mean touching but the lead 
up to even getting into any type of contact

How many times over the last few years have you prepared an evening for her where you got her in a relaxed mood and really tried to prep her 
into a mind set that would induce closeness

No blame on you here its just that with almost all women if you get them into a relaxed state and engage there minds everything else just flows

As they are not so much visual creatures I would imagine in her head what she did is wrong but not D wrong as they put a load more emphasis on
intimacy and this wasn't a private loving emotional encounter

Bottom line is it was *totally unacceptable* what she did But this is one case where I would look a bit deeper as the act in my head is some thing I 
may be able to understand and live with....never forgive...but live with


----------



## Yeswecan

G.J. said:


> Bottom line is it was *totally unacceptable* what she did But this is one case where I would look a bit deeper as the act in my head is some thing I may be able to understand and live with....never forgive...but live with


I think the OP looked deep enough. This act is something that I would never live with. The OP will not either. When one lowers their standards what else are you willing to "live" with?


----------



## G.J.

Yeswecan said:


> I think the OP looked deep enough. This act is something that I would never live with. The OP will not either. When one lowers their standards what else are you willing to "live" with?


Every one is different and will make a decision based on their own well being

The OP has asked about a poly which to me seems to give a suggestion that he may still be thinking to pursue a different option albeit one he 
doesn't yet know

As far as 'standards' (sounds like some thing from weights and measures) I would love to live in a world where every thing was black and white 
and the morals of everyone reflected my own but as I don't, occasionally i have to compromise


----------



## drifting on

I consider myself to be a very forgiving person. My MC won't agree with that as I am intense when I care deeply about an issue. In this case I myself could not get past this. I could not accept this single act of a bad choice. This act would likely be overlooked because of the setting in which it occurred by people with poor boundaries. The atmosphere in which it is performed and arriving home to the BS and kissing him. In my opinion this has to be close to disrespecting a man as you can get.

To do this with your family surrounding you, friends looking on and she accepts him in her mouth. She won't do this for her husband but will for a stripper. Then completes the act of total disrespect by coming home to kiss her husband. For all that have said she is not into her husband, I would do the polygraph. Unlike OP who has much more class then I, I would take the families money, even if it caused them a hardship. I would then pay for the polygraph with it to ask questions on what and why her intent was to disrespect OP in such a manner. Never mind about whether she had previous affairs. As I said this is what I would have done. 

I could never get past this, and I have respect for the OP to even consider whether he is doing what's right. The only advice I have for the OP is, do as you feel necessary. If you can't get past this then kudos to you for knowing that. Neither choice you as OP has to make is easy, and anyone who doesn't support you I would say one sentence. This is a choice I never should have had to make, but I have decided, and it's divorce. Good luck to you OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

MachoMcCoy said:


> Next project for you: Find out which gal got the facial. That's the big climax, pun intended.


:iagree:

Doubtless one of the women got a facial.


----------



## G.J.

Thor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Doubtless one of the women got a facial.


Was it Larry Curly Or Mo


----------



## Yeswecan

G.J. said:


> Every one is different and will make a decision based on their own well being
> 
> The OP has asked about a poly which to me seems to give a suggestion that he may still be thinking to pursue a different option albeit one he
> doesn't yet know
> 
> As far as 'standards' (sounds like some thing from weights and measures) I would love to live in a world where every thing was black and white
> and the morals of everyone reflected my own but as I don't, occasionally i have to compromise


Let's replace 'standards' with say 'morals'. For me, it is black and white for many things. If you cross the line(sucking OM member) it is clear cut(black and white). Truth be told, if I advised my W I was playing on the stripper's carpet at a bachelor party I can assure my bags would be packed for me post haste. Some things I'm not going to compromise on.


----------



## G.J.

Yeswecan said:


> Let's replace 'standards' with say 'morals'. For me, it is black and white for many things. If you cross the line(sucking OM member) it is clear cut(black and white). Truth be told, if I advised my W I was playing on the stripper's carpet at a bachelor party I can assure my bags would be packed for me post haste. Some things I'm not going to compromise on.


There we go that's you
No argument from me

as I said


> Every one is different and will make a decision based on their own well being


----------



## GusPolinski

disillusioned14 said:


> Thanks to all who have posted. I took a break from TAM for a while.
> 
> I followed thru with a call to both kids and have started the process of D. It will not be cheap, but will be money well spent.
> 
> I also called the wife and told her what I was doing. She got very quiet and cried. She has been texting emailing calling and coming to see me promising everything I wanted while we were married and begging for another chance. Her family has also offered to repay me the money she spent on the kid. I refused. It's not really about the money. Thats just another insult on the pile from my end and her family is not wealthy.
> 
> Her sister came to see me. She went ape **** nuclear on me. Said I was trying to ruin her sister, embarass her, etc. She said I should be standing by my wife not throwing stones and called me a prick.
> 
> I told her that if she ever spoke to me that way again I was going to ask her husband if he got a kiss that night like I did and how that made him feel. I almost used the suggestion earlier about what she could use her mouth for instead of *****ing at me. Now I kind of wish I had.
> 
> Her family is concerned as is she. She's never been on her own and she is very worried about that part. Was she not into me as suggested by some posters. I'd have to yes, but it took me a while to come to that conclusion. I guess I'm slow.
> 
> Were we drifting apart? Not from my end, at least not until this came to light.
> 
> I received a PM suggesting a polygraph. I asked her if she'd take one to back up her claims she agreed instantly and asked when we could go. I think I know it all now, but who knows. Even with what I do know, assuming that is it, I still want out. A lie detctor test cant fix that.
> 
> How common are these types of parties where we live. I never heard of something like this before, but there must be a market or there wouldn't be a guy to hire for it.


If you decide to move forward w/ a poly (not sure why you would at this point), be sure to throw in a question or two about this...



disillusioned14 said:


> I caught her lying and it was beyond awful. I moved out and am moving forward with a divorce. she has begged, pleaded promised to have told me everything... she had me believeing that I knew everything and then I find out that *while she was preganant with our son, after we were married, she kissed an old boyfriend when she was "visiting" her parents.*


----------



## disillusioned14

I do not intend to seek a polygraph. I mentioned it to her really to see how she would respond. I have no interest in reconcilling with her so it would be a waste of money and time. If I was going this route, my questions would be long.

Really, assuming I know everything, and I think I do, I still want a divorce. 

I don't want a business relationship or to lower my standards in acceptance to maintain a marriage. I am not perfect, but I really did try and I never cheated on my wife No EA, no PA. I don't believe I did anything to deserve this and just cannot accept what happened. Maybe if she had been competely honest from the get go we could have made it. But every time a new lie was uncovered it was like a reset back to square one. She just couldn't understand the need to be completely honest. 

Now this is what I need to complete healing and move on with my life. It's not about punishing or embarrassing her or trying to screw her over in the divorce. I just want it to be done now.


I know that she didn't legally steal from me, but it sure feels like theft money, dignity, self esteem, marriage, family, all of it. I don't see how a spouse who cherrished their marriage and spouse could do this or something like it. 

She swears this is it. I think she bored with life and was not that in to me. she keeps trying to talk counseling and reconcilling and polygraphs. Its me that is not interested. 

I am hopeful that somehwere I can find a woman who is as in to me as I am her and I know that is not my wife. I just do not see any chance to reconcile and am not interested. 

The whole thing does seem out of character for her and I do think she got caught up in the moment, but I deserved better and she certainly set herself up for something like this weather she meant for it to happen or not. I'll stop by for update from time to time.

Thanks again to all who responded.


----------



## harrybrown

Yes, it will be expensive.

I do hope you find some peace and happiness in the future.

I did prepare the D paperwork for my son. I got the information from the state. I am not an attorney, just a dad.

They had no kids and very little of assets, just debts that she had incurred. 

I helped pay for her training to become a CNA. She met a guy at work. She told him the office was having a bowling party. He decided to check that out. When he got there, there were only two people there, her and the other guy. She was sitting on his lap. "she was just trying to make him jealous".

My son ended up with the bills. She got the car that she wrecked. But he did not end up with any payments to her, and he received his freedom. 

He played on the line in high school football. He now has a college degree. He is still single. 

Anyway, I do hope you can find peace and happiness. But if you can work together on the D, you can save some money by using mediation.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Forgive me since I've not read thru your thread in awhile, but the gist of this is that you received lukewarm at best sex from your wife the last several years (or most the marriage?), sex was generally fairly vanilla with no oral, anal, bondage, etc... Then she gets caught blowing the male stripper and NOW wants to throw herself at you with reckless abandon and will promise the world to you sexually? Was this unprompted on her part or did you mention that your sex life sucked but she had no problems acting more exotic with a stranger? It seems kind of odd how transactional her family seems to be. OR, do you come across as transaction minded in your wife's and in-laws eyes?


----------



## Yeswecan

Good luck sir. I hope you find peace.


----------



## disillusioned14

plan- 

I am trying to be transactional with my wife now. I'm trying to do so compassionately, but that is tough because she takes the slightest kindness out of context.

Can't say that I've ever been in to bondage, so I never pursued that. Did I mention to her that she could have stayed home and sucked my ****? Absolutely. Did I express my disgust that she would pay to suck his **** while refusing to do so for me? Absolutley. 

Was this wrong on my part to say? Are you suggesting that it wouldn't have happened if I would have demanded more from her in the bedroom? 

My biggest complaint sexually would have been frequency, not vanilla. I can't say that it only ever felt like duty sex on her part but maybe she fooled me there to.


----------



## bandit.45

disillusioned14 said:


> The whole thing does seem out of character for her and I do think she got caught up in the moment, but I deserved better and she certainly set herself up for something like this weather she meant for it to happen or not.


I will tell you what I think...

Had she not been ratted out, and had this stayed quiet, I believe she would have got a taste for it and started pursuing other men behind your back. I think she could very easily have started down the road of becoming a full-blown cougar. 

I think you are doing the right thing. Move on. 

What I hope does not happen, for your sake, is that she turns into a full blown slvt, throwing her legs up for your friends and guys you know in the community. We have seen that happen here on TAM before, and it is heartbreaking for a BH who is trying to rebuild his life and move on. I hope that does not happen, but prepare yourself for the possibility. If her stank sister is as bad as she has presented herself, I would bet she is already making a list of men she wants to set your WW up with...probably before the D is even final.


----------



## ConanHub

I think it was perfect reasoning to ask her why she didn't stay home and blow you but went through all the trouble to hire a kid and suck his junk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Steve1000

disillusioned14 said:


> plan-
> Did I mention to her that she could have stayed home and sucked my ****? Absolutely. Did I express my disgust that she would pay to suck his **** while refusing to do so for me? Absolutley.


This point, although it may seem petty to some, is imo, the biggest reason to avoid trying to reconcile. Withholding it (bj) for you for years, but offering it freely to someone else would be a mental road block that would be impossible to get over.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Steve1000 said:


> This point, although it may seem petty to some, is imo, the biggest reason to avoid trying to reconcile. Withholding it (bj) for you for years, but offering it freely to someone else would be a mental road block that would be impossible to get over.


It's not petty at all. It supports the idea that she's not that into him but is into the lifestyle he provides and her status as a wife. He can do better.

She's probably still digesting that it's come to this. It never occurred to her that her good time would wreck her life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

lifeistooshort said:


> It's not petty at all. It supports the idea that she's not that into him but is into the lifestyle he provides and her status as a wife. He can do better.
> 
> She's probably still digesting that it's come to this. It never occurred to her that her good time would wreck her life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Clearly

55


----------



## terrence4159

What did she say when you confronted her on why she didn't give you a bj the last ten years but was more than willing to suck down a stripper? 

I'm late to the party but good for you for following your heart and gut in divorcing her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

terrence4159 said:


> What did she say when you confronted her on why she didn't give you a bj the last ten years but was more than willing to suck down a stripper?


Seriously, just how much of a kick in the balls, teeth, and ego would that be for any of us men?

And she wants forgiveness.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

disillusioned14 said:


> The whole thing does seem out of character for her and *I do think she got caught up in the moment,* but I deserved better and she certainly set herself up for something like this *weather she meant for it to happen or not.* I'll stop by for update from time to time.


I think you wrote that she sought the stripper out. Needed to hire one anyway and someone recommended him to her. Didn't she actually meet this guy before the party to see if he was who she was going to hire?

If she called him, then met him, then hired him, then paid him...

Then the BJ happening was not a surprise to her. Him either.

Sorry, buy this looks pretty premeditated to me. I believe that she went there that night with the expectation of something happening. like this.

She may not have been all in at the beginning, but once a few of the other women started playing a tune on the ole meat whistle, she saw her chance and took it. This was more than just getting caught up in the moment.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I think you wrote that she sought the stripper out. Needed to hire one anyway and someone recommended him to her. Didn't she actually meet this guy before the party to see if he was who she was going to hire?
> 
> If she called him, then met him, then hired him, then paid him...
> 
> Then the BJ happening was not a surprise to her. Him either.
> 
> Sorry, buy this looks pretty premeditated to me. I believe that she went there that night with the expectation of something happening. like this.
> 
> She may not have been all in at the beginning, but once a few of the other women started playing a tune on the ole meat whistle, she saw her chance and took it. This was more than just getting caught up in the moment.


No nononononooooooooooooo..........
LOL.
This can of worms was already raised, asked, answered, addressed and caused a ton of friction.


----------



## ConanHub

LOL! Meat whistle......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Well, I don't know how well this stupid woman is known in the community, but for her to croak her marriage in such a cheap, lurid fashion will make her an outcast in many circles. She may lose a lot of good friends and influence's due to this, and gain alot of bad ones.


----------



## morituri

As fellows BH, please let us allow dis to grieve the end of his marriage.


----------



## bandit.45

All affairs are stupid, but for someone to end her marriage in such a spectacularly stupid fashion pisses me off to no end.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No nononononooooooooooooo..........
> LOL.
> This can of worms was already raised, asked, answered, addressed and caused a ton of friction.


Yes I realized that, but the OP continues to post phrases like "I do think she got caught up in the moment" and "weather she meant for it to happen or not".

I understand he may just trying so soften the blow, but to me, it's denial of excepting the distinct possibility that this sexual contact occurred as a result of prior planning.

She may not have know what she was going to do at the party, but she went there with the expectation of doing something.

Add "mob rule" and "group mentality" and screw tomorrow, I'm only interested in right now.

Someone sent me a video about a year ago. They film male stripper parties. They hire a number of women to have actual sex with the men, on camera. The rest of the women are paid about $50 and are just there to make the setting look as real a possible. Sometimes one of the extras gets carried away in the moment and joins in on the sex action.

Well, in this video, one of the "extras" did just that. She performed oral sex on a stripper. He gave the money shot on her face, then walked out of view of the camera. When the women stood up, she looked right into the camera. Then it hit her...

Within 5 seconds she's crying. As she's wiping the, you know, off her face, you can see an engagement ring and a wedding band on her ring finger. Also covered in, you know. The little blurb that was underneath said that she confessed to her husband, of 6 months, knowing I'm sure that he would eventually see the clip.

This would be a woman that got caught up in the moment.


----------



## Be smart

Good decision by divorcing her.

She has no respect for you:
1. giving BJ in front of her friends (and yours)
2. lying to your face 
3. sticking with her sister
4. sticking with her "some of her friends" after the fiasco

Belive me,this is not just one time thing,she did have AFFAIRS and you will never find about them.
It is so easy for her to arange all,then go to her knees and do the act in front of the crowd.
After all she came to YOUR house and kissed you.

Good luck with your life my friend,yo will find another mate who will be worth


----------



## carmen ohio

See_Listen_Love said:


> . . . So that is why try to make people aware of the imho incorrect assumption there is the difference of people who are saints and who are sinners. We all are the same one.


What a silly statement. Should we canonize sinners and condemn saints?

Society could not function if it did not distinguish between those who do right and those who do wrong. Likewise, individuals must make judgments about who they can trust, on whom they can depend and with whom it is safe to associate. Those who judge poorly either don't live long or live miserable lives.

I hear a lot of people saying things like this, claiming it's wrong to be 'judgmental.' But I've yet to meet a parent -- even a lying, cheating, thieving parent -- who didn't care if his children grew up to be liars, cheats and thieves.

If you were honest, S_L_L, I expect you would admit to feeling the same.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Yes I realized that, but the OP continues to post phrases like "I do think she got caught up in the moment" and "weather she meant for it to happen or not".
> 
> I understand he may just trying so soften the blow, but to me, it's denial of excepting the distinct possibility that this sexual contact occurred as a result of prior planning.
> She may not have know what she was going to do at the party, but she went there with the expectation of doing something.
> 
> Add "mob rule" and "group mentality" and screw tomorrow, I'm only interested in right now.
> 
> Someone sent me a video about a year ago. They film male stripper parties. They hire a number of women to have actual sex with the men, on camera. The rest of the women are paid about $50 and are just there to make the setting look as real a possible. Sometimes one of the extras gets carried away in the moment and joins in on the sex action.
> 
> Well, in this video, one of the "extras" did just that. She performed oral sex on a stripper. He gave the money shot on her face, then walked out of view of the camera. When the women stood up, she looked right into the camera. Then it hit her...
> 
> Within 5 seconds she's crying. As she's wiping the, you know, off her face, you can see an engagement ring and a wedding band on her ring finger. Also covered in, you know. The little blurb that was underneath said that she confessed to her husband, of 6 months, knowing I'm sure that he would eventually see the clip.
> 
> This would be a woman that got caught up in the moment.


LOL, I know, It was a joke. 

Heck, a similar porn scenario was raised earlier.

I'm saying don't anger the "but people have come back from worse" and "being selfish" posters who were irritated at this type of conjecture.


----------



## Whip Morgan

I saw that video, without the blurb. Assumed it was fake, as those types of videos are. Perhaps she was a good actress, as I know there is an audience of people who get off on that type of porn. But, perhaps it was real. Curious about that backstory. 

Real or fake, those women all cheer on. In OP's case, some women left in disgust. Good for them...Sad for the spouses of those who didnt. And OP of course.

OP, I'd say divorce is what will save your sanity and emotional wellbeing in the long run, but I'm sorry that you're here.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

carmen ohio said:


> What a silly statement. Should we canonize sinners and condemn saints?
> 
> Society could not function if it did not distinguish between those who do right and those who do wrong. Likewise, individuals must make judgments about who they can trust, on whom they can depend and with whom it is safe to associate. Those who judge poorly either don't live long or live miserable lives.
> 
> I hear a lot of people saying things like this, claiming it's wrong to be 'judgmental.' But I've yet to meet a parent -- even a lying, cheating, thieving parent -- who didn't care if his children grew up to be liars, cheats and thieves.
> 
> If you were honest, S_L_L, I expect you would admit to feeling the same.


I am completely honest.

I attribute the black and white thinking to the need of justification for posters here. I am stunned by the lack of insight in humanity and oneself.

edit- 

Listen, that is just my observation. I do not mind people see it different. I come from a culture where 'American-like' means a dramatic, exaggerated response to situations. It is like this in most northern Europe countries. Earlier posts indicate some posters think of 'Black and White thinking' as a positive thing, maybe its the North American culture.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Whip Morgan said:


> I saw that video, without the blurb. Assumed it was fake, as those types of videos are. Perhaps she was a good actress, as I know there is an audience of people who get off on that type of porn. But, perhaps it was real. Curious about that backstory.
> 
> Real or fake, those women all cheer on. In OP's case, some women left in disgust. Good for them...Sad for the spouses of those who didnt. And OP of course.
> 
> OP, I'd say divorce is what will save your sanity and emotional wellbeing in the long run, but I'm sorry that you're here.


Yes, I know, many, or most of these vid's are staged. But they have to fill the place with women and most of the women at the bigger clubs aren't being paid to do things with the dancers.

I've seen a few that look to be "real". They look like they took place in a local legion hall and the like. Most of the women don't look to be trampy. Then when the strippers go from table to table, I'm amazed that I see wedding rings on some of the women that grabbing, jerking and humming the dancers.

My ex went to a bachelorette party at a near by hall. This was in the mid 80's, but even then I knew these male stripper deals got out of control sometimes. I told my ex if you cross the line and I hear about, you'll come home one day and I'll be gone.

When she got home she told me that she realized why I had warned her before she left. Most of the single women there did get physical with the dancers. She said that a few of the not single women did as well. About a month later I found out that one of the "not single's" fiance found out what his betrothed had done at the party. He did what I had warned I would do. He took a day off from work, packed all his things and moved out of their apartment before she got home from work. When anyone asked him why they broke up he would answer "She blows strippers.".


----------



## LongWalk

carmen ohio said:


> What a silly statement. Should we canonize sinners and condemn saints?
> 
> Society could not function if it did not distinguish between those who do right and those who do wrong. Likewise, individuals must make judgments about who they can trust, on whom they can depend and with whom it is safe to associate. Those who judge poorly either don't live long or live miserable lives.
> 
> I hear a lot of people saying things like this, claiming it's wrong to be 'judgmental.' But I've yet to meet a parent -- even a lying, cheating, thieving parent -- who didn't care if his children grew up to be liars, cheats and thieves.
> 
> If you were honest, S_L_L, I expect you would admit to feeling the same.


i don't think SLL is dishonest. That is an over simplification. I am living in Europe and while there are cultural differences regarding honesty, integrity and fidelity across the continent, I suppose the same is true of the US.

In the Washington Post there was recently an article How to break free from monogamy without destroying marriage that is "non-judgmental" about the decline of traditional morality, which the journalist discovers is an anachronism of our agricultural past.

You can read exactly this sort of article in Europe. Everywhere man is being reinvented by progressive thinkers. Bruce Jenner is transgender. At one time people did not accept people who thought they were born in the wrong body. Today he is a docudrama celebrity. Who is good and who is bad is still a matter for the mob of gossiping villagers.

TAM stands for traditional values but even TAM accepts divorce, but when I was child and teen in the 60s and 70s divorce was in the process of becoming acceptable. People back then could not imagine that we could shrug our shoulders over wedding vows at such a rate. The idea that Jackie Kennedy could remarry was slightly scandalous – how could the widow of the president accept another man? She was a holy national icon. So in defense of SLL, I would say that morality is changing. To only say that it is weakening is too simplistic, too black and white.

That said it wouldn't surprize me at all that many hip people, while accepting moral flexibility for others, don't want an open marriage. They want the security of monogamy. Heck, even cheaters often do, for themselves but not their spouses.

I just read that Tiger Woods played his worst round of golf ever. His career crashed when he was outed as serial adulterer. Society and media attacked and shamed him as a public example. It is a wonder that he has survived. Who Tiger Woods sleeps with and cheats on is unending lesson that no one really controls their own sex life. Our sex lives are controlled by family law and public scrutiny.

Tiger Woods enjoy rehabilitation by mating with Lindsey Vonn and settling for monogamy. His kids were close to her. Elin approved of Lindsey and then they broke up, probably because he is a serial cheater. This could be a reason that he has slid further down.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

See_Listen_Love said:


> I am completely honest.
> 
> I attribute the black and white thinking to the need of justification for posters here. I am stunned by the lack of insight in humanity and oneself.


Insight? Humanity? Oneself? Some of your posts, in this thread, are ironically just as exaggerated and as black and white as many of the posters you are critiquing, but you do not see it that way. 
Your post is very ironic.


----------



## Hoosier

OP, I haven't read all your thread but enough to know our situations are very similar, except i am nearly 4 years a head of you, 30 years of marriage, in my case, when confronted about questionable texts, she packed two suitcases walked 5 blocks and moved in with OM,.

I felt like the stupidest man on earth, I tried for a year to process what happened, my life changed so much. For you, you must know that time is what you need to process, and decide what YOU want. In my case I divorced quickly, knowing that being divorced didn't mean I couldn't be with her if that's what I wanted, same for you.
Yesterday would of been our 34 anniversary, I thought "happy anniversary J". Celebrating a good time for a while, my three daughters, and granddaughter that came from it. Not missing her at all as she is now. You will get there too... Good luck


----------



## ThePheonix

LongWalk said:


> Everywhere man is being reinvented by progressive thinkers. Bruce Jenner is transgender.


:lol::lol::lol:

You live in a world where people fawn all over the Kardashians, (whose main talent is breathing air) and drive their cars into each other and into ditches texting messages no more important that what they ate for lunch.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Insight? Humanity? Oneself? Some of your posts, in this thread, are ironically just as exaggerated and as black and white as many of the posters you are critiquing, but you do not see it that way.
> Your post is very ironic.


I reviewed my posts, I get that I believe in relativity, the being able to be a sinner and a saint as roles for about everybody, etc. etc.

I plea for not divorcing yet, it is an extreme measure to something less then a ONS as far as the facts are known. Many stories on TAM show reconciliation from much worse affairs.

Insight in human nature, sin and forgiving can be found in the writings of Bonhoeffer. To name only one.


----------



## jld

See_Listen_Love said:


> I reviewed my posts, I get that I believe in relativity, the being able to be a sinner and a saint as roles for about everybody, etc. etc.
> 
> *I plea for not divorcing yet*, it is an extreme measure to something less then a ONS as far as the facts are known. Many stories on TAM show reconciliation from much worse affairs.
> 
> Insight in human nature, sin and forgiving can be found in the writings of Bonhoeffer. To name only one.


I like the way this was worded.


----------



## turnera

disillusioned14 said:


> she keeps trying to talk counseling and reconciling and polygraphs.


Just to do a good thing, the next time she 'talks' counseling, tell her to go ahead and do it. For everyone's sakes.

And I get that infidelity is your hill to die on. For some it is, for some it isn't. The only thing I would suggest is that you hold off filing for divorce. I always suggest the people never make huge decisions without waiting a good long while for you to sort out all your feelings.


----------



## cpacan

If the image of his wife with a strippers tool in her mouth is OPs dealbreaker, why do some of you insist that he change his mind?

For the record, I'm from the liberal cold northern Europe, and I wouldn't enjoy that vision either.


----------



## azteca1986

cpacan said:


> If the image of his wife with a strippers tool in her mouth is OPs dealbreaker, why do some of you insist that he change his mind?


Indeed. One man's "At least it wasn't a ONS" is another's "It was a publicly performed sex act in front of family, friends and neighbours". At least there's a chance that a ONS might be discrete. Not the case here; she chose to be part of the 'entertainment'.


----------



## turnera

I'm not trying to change his mind. I'm just saying wait until your emotions aren't running your decisions. I've seen a lot of people change a lot of minds on here.


----------



## Nucking Futs

turnera said:


> I'm not trying to change his mind. I'm just saying wait until your emotions aren't running your decisions. I've seen a lot of people change a lot of minds on here.


There's no reason to delay filing if that's what he wants to do. It's a process, not an event.


----------



## Jasel

Agreed. If he files this week its not like he'll be divorced a day later.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

turnera said:


> I'm not trying to change his mind. I'm just saying wait until your emotions aren't running your decisions..


LOL. If his emotions haven't calmed down in nearly 10 months, it is time to go.


----------



## italianjob

turnera said:


> I'm not trying to change his mind. I'm just saying wait until your emotions aren't running your decisions. I've seen a lot of people change a lot of minds on here.


You ARE trying to change his mind. The events that led to this are several months old, there's no point in waiting if filing is what he wants to do...


----------



## italianjob

bandit.45 said:


> All affairs are stupid, but for someone to end her marriage in such a spectacularly stupid fashion pisses me off to no end.


I'm with bandit on this one, I think the stupidity and the mindlessness of this one make this story worse and less forgivable than others, not better...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

See_Listen_Love said:


> I reviewed my posts, I get that I believe in relativity, the being able to be a sinner and a saint as roles for about everybody, etc. etc.


None of this negates what I stated..
Your take on sin is black and white.
Your assertion of less than a ONS is black and white.
Your take on "divorce is extreme" is black and white.

Still this about him so, I'll disengage with your points and misconstrued attempts at religious relativity.

Disillusioned14, take what you know and do what you feel is right.
Also, I'm going to point out something interesting. On this board we get the common refrain and variant of "wait until your emotions calm down."

I agree 100% in certain circumstances.. Go back through this thread, other threads as well, to see how many people say "wait" with no set time frame.

What I find sadly funny is, no matter how much time has passed, it is almost ALWAYS longer than whatever you waited.

For some, reconciliation has become dogma.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
Please bear with me as I wax somewhat philosophical. 23 years...........that is a long time. Besides the kiss, during that time, has your wife shown any other signs of infidelity? The accumulation of years does tend to put an insulator on M sometimes. It often dulls otherwise keen senses and allows feelings to become buried that are still there especially when both parties do not put sufficient effort into keeping the feelings alive. You obviously care very deeply for your wife. If you did not, this would not have hurt you with the depth that it obviously has.

In many instances here the WS shows a continuing predisposition to betrayal. They are obviously more concerned with their own gratification than with anything else including children and family. I may be wrong but I do not feel this is the case in this instance. I am not advocating what your wife has done because it is reprehensible, inexcusable, unforgivable, abominable, horrendous, horrific and loathsome. In this instance however I would say it is, above all the rest, monumentally stupid.

Think about it for a moment. If your wife wanted to cheat on you she picked the worst possible way in which to carry out her desire. She found the stripper, paid for him and then cheated on you with him at a party, in front of her sister and presumably many other family members and friends, with no concern for secrecy and seemingly no thought of the next minute. This does not sound like an act of premeditated betrayal but more like a very stupid, drunken mistake.......very stupid. It sounds like someone caught up in the moment, quite drunk and seemingly now very remorseful.

Obviously I do not know your entire story and all of the nuances involved so I can only speak to what I have gleaned here from your posts. However, I do not feel that you are forgiving betrayal, although it is but rather that you have to forgive stupid. There is a difference in that I feel, in this instance, your W is truly sorry for her misdeeds and the fact that she realized how badly she failed is what drove her to the lies and deceit that followed......more stupidity. I do know however, that starving oneself is very difficult to do. Not so difficult though if there are traumatic psychological elements suppressing appetite. I believe your word was "sickly" and I believe that she is very sick over her actions.

I am not suggesting that you R with your W nor am I suggesting D. Those are decisions that only you can make for your own reasons. All I am suggesting is that you reflect over the last 23 years and consider if there is merit in them and of what value it is. A kiss almost 23 years ago and a single oral encounter during a drunken party does not constitute a serial cheater. It surely is indicative of immaturity and even stupidity but it does not represent a woman hell-bent on pursuing men or even a single man for the purpose of an affair. I am not attempting to make light of this incident because I find it disgusting in every way but I also believe that it should be viewed pragmatically. And I feel her willingness, even insistence, to undergo therapy and counseling to ensure this incident is never repeated is worthy of noting. This is not the behavior of one looking to cheat again.

She has placed you in a very difficult position but I do believe it was not with malicious intent. Sadly, she allowed stupidity and alcohol to rule the day and I believe she is sick over it. However, what I believe is irrelevant. I posit this for your consideration, not mine. Whatever your decision, I wish you good fortune in life.


----------



## LongWalk

ThePheonix said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> You live in a world where people fawn all over the Kardashians, (whose main talent is breathing air) and drive their cars into each other and into ditches texting messages no more important that what they ate for lunch.


You live in that world, too. I don't own a TV and I have never watched an episode of their reality TV show. However, from the print media I know that they are mega celebrities and Bruce Jenner is one of them. After all, treating your makeover into woman a PR exercise is a form of ego trip.

There are many strange things going on in relationships and reproduction. It is part of the consumer mentality. If one is not happy, the boundaries can be pushed. It is odd that one can rent a womb. Single women can get IVF. Prostitution may be illegal but many related commercial activities are okay.

Male strippers are did not exist 50 years ago.

Aren't there even restaurant chains that feature nearly naked women? There certainly are barbershops in which all the staff are attractive young women.

There is no reason for OP to accept his wife's vulgarity. Divorce is certainly a reasonable response. After divorce, should he discover that she is remorseful and a better person, he should not deny himself the possibility of reconciliation if he desires it.


----------



## ThePheonix

True LW. Human sexuality is got to be the area most open to exploitation and the development of neurotic beliefs and behavior.


----------



## May1968

As Philly said, he has waited about 10 months before he finally is close to making a decision. This isn't like a spur of the moment decision, he waited for emotions to die down and they didn't. As said above, even if he files now he doesn't have to go through with it. But if he really feels he can't stay with her he may need to get the divorce clock started.


----------



## Dyokemm

"I plea for not divorcing yet,"

I cannot figure out why OP keeps getting hammered over the head for choosing what HE wants.

Rarely do I see this on TAM....its more of an SI specialty.

Personally, MY view and belief would be to D every traitorous spouse ever....but I bite my tongue and offer the best advice for a successful R when the BS says they want to R.

When I tell people to take a tough stand and file, its because I think a no-nonsense and tough stand offer the best chance for real R rather than bullsh*t rugsweeping.

I offer advice on how to hold the WS accountable and give the best shot at fixing the M.

Even though my personal thoughts may be 'dump the POS, you deserve better'....I DO NOT give this advice if the BS says they want R.

And I think most of the toughest posters here do the same....they do not keep harping on a BS to D even if they don't want it....they simply advise to take a tough and dignified stand to ensure the BS isn't being led into a false R.

Why is it that so many pro-R people seem to be incapable of just accepting that a BS says they want D for certain?

Why the constant haranguing? 

Let OP alone....its his choice....ITS HIS LIFE.


----------



## drifting on

I have advised posters to give some time before a life changing decision is decided. I don't give a time limit each time but I have advised some to wait at least six months. I myself, for my case, waited six months. OP has waited several months, and come to TAM for knowledge. Knowledge to apply to his decision, to his situation. It is unfortunate that he has been given this choice, and he is fighting a family that had opportunity to stop this encounter. 

Family could have stopped his WW, family could have said anything to make her at least hesitate. OP has written of no such family member saying anything at the party. What about friends? Did they pull his WW to the side to say what are you doing? Watching family and friends leave when this started wasn't enough of a thought of, this might be a bad idea? Do you think it only took a couple of seconds for these people to leave? Don't you think they went to their friends and family to give a hug and say goodbye? When these people left the situation would have calmed and your caught in the moment left deflated. 

I'm sure OP has examined this event, analyzed what the family members have shared. OP doesn't appear to have made a quick hardly thought out decision. His own sister in law is calling him a pr-ck because of his decision. So is this sister in law upset at the people who left? Are they 
b-tches for leaving and not participating? Where was her mom? Did she attend? Did the mother in law attend? We don't know if they were there, if they participated, if they left, or if they are even alive. But what if they were? What do you think now? Still caught up in the moment? I think looking across the room and seeing your mom would make you wipe your mouth real quick. 

There are so many facts we don't have, but the OP does. OP has received advice, and stated his decision. I have stated numerous times I don't advocate divorce or reconciliation but what the OP decides is given my support. OP has enough of the facts to make his decision. It's something he has staed he can't get past. Why would you say, wait a minute, are you sure you've thought of everything? OP was asked to value his 23 year marriage, don't you think his wife should have? Don't you think maybe before sneaking money out of accounts was enough to wake up and value the marriage? Don't you think people leaving because this began wasn't enough to value 23 years? Don't you think before you open your mouth, family shouldn't have said to value 23 years? Quite frankly I'm stunned that OP was asked to consider 23 years for an act that was so very disrespectful, so despicable, yet so mind boggingly stupid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on

Dyokemm said:


> "I plea for not divorcing yet,"
> 
> I cannot figure out why OP keeps getting hammered over the head for choosing what HE wants.
> 
> Rarely do I see this on TAM....its more of an SI specialty.
> 
> Personally, MY view and belief would be to D every traitorous spouse ever....but I bite my tongue and offer the best advice for a successful R when the BS says they want to R.
> 
> When I tell people to take a tough stand and file, its because I think a no-nonsense and tough stand offer the best chance for real R rather than bullsh*t rugsweeping.
> 
> I offer advice on how to hold the WS accountable and give the best shot at fixing the M.
> 
> Even though my personal thoughts may be 'dump the POS, you deserve better'....I DO NOT give this advice if the BS says they want R.
> 
> And I think most of the toughest posters here do the same....they do not keep harping on a BS to D even if they don't want it....they simply advise to take a tough and dignified stand to ensure the BS isn't being led into a false R.
> 
> Why is it that so many pro-R people seem to be incapable of just accepting that a BS says they want D for certain?
> 
> Why the constant haranguing?
> 
> Let OP alone....its his choice....ITS HIS LIFE.



Dyokemm

I have chosen to reconcile, and if you knew my story, well it may change your above statement. You are absolutely correct in my opinion of your post and I wish I could put a super "like" on it. I wrote the same and posted just after you. Well said!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm

Well said drifting on.

It is what OP said he KNOWS is best for him.

THAT should be enough for everyone to stop criticizing the choice he is making for his own life....even if they would handle it very differently.


----------



## ConanHub

turnera said:


> I'm not trying to change his mind. I'm just saying wait until your emotions aren't running your decisions. I've seen a lot of people change a lot of minds on here.


He actually already did wait and totally think this through. He took way more time than I ever would have.

He came here because he had a lot of detractors of his decision to D and he thought he would get input if his well thought out decision to D was in error. It wasn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

In the end the whys are no longer important.

He has decided he does not want to spend the rest of his life shackled to an idiot. 'Nuff said....

Here is hoping he heals and finds a new woman with some fvcking brains.


----------



## synthetic

> Even though my personal thoughts may be 'dump the POS, you deserve better'....I DO NOT give this advice if the BS says they want R.


I actually give THIS very specific advice if the BS says they want R


----------



## Satya

OP, all I wish to add is that you should not let her or her parents guilt you about her being on her own. 

She's a grown arse woman. If she can't be alone, then she's certainly not ready for a relationship. Clearly demonstrated. 

Being independent gives us perspective on life, on what a partner brings to the table, and the appreciation of such. Being provided for brings comfort, but we respect much less because of the lack of understanding, and finally we fear when the meal ticket is in danger of departing. 

It could be the most valuable lesson for her future you ever teach her. Learning to be on her own.


----------



## Gonecrazy

I can't believe people actually think OP should not consider divorce!

OP, i'm really sorry to hear about your situation, it's a terrible disgusting thing for a man to have to find out about his wife. 

If what you said is true, you are nothing more than to pay packet to your wife. She hasn't given you a BJ in 10 years. You stayed with a woman who hasnt given you a BJ in 10 years. When she gets caught out, she offers to do anything for you in bed! Which obviously means she knows she's been shortchanging you big time and she doesn't want to lose that big fat paycheck and security that you bring her!

You're a good man who works hard for his family. And you deserve better and what your wife is giving you. I think that you should either divorce her, or start playing her for the fool in thinking that she has a chance of keeping you. If you are going to play her, make sure she sucks you like there's no tomorrow and that her sucking you is gonna make things better. Then turf her when you're ready. After all, you are owed 10 years worth of bj's, I'd be cashing in!

As for the sister in law. I would tell her I would be willing to apologise to her, if she would be willing to watch me lick another woman's vag!na, and then kiss me with my newly wet lips. if not, F OFF


----------



## May1968

Per Gonecrazy "She hasn't given you a BJ in 10 years. You stayed with a woman who hasnt given you a BJ in 10 years. When she gets caught out, she offers to do anything for you in bed! Which obviously means she knows she's been shortchanging you big time and she doesn't want to lose that big fat paycheck and security that you bring her!"

Good point, never thought about that she knew she was short changing BP


----------



## bandit.45

We hold these truths to be self evident...that not all men are blown equally....

She sucketh not, so he payeth not...


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> We hold these truths to be self evident...that not all men are blown equally....
> 
> She sucketh not, so he payeth not...


You ain't right!>


----------



## workindad

bandit.45 said:


> We hold these truths to be self evident...that not all men are blown equally....
> 
> She sucketh not, so he payeth not...


You should write up fortunes for fortune cookies. This would be hoot!


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## Alphamale718

Break out bro! Don't feel guilty for upholding your values and the commitment that you've had for your relationship! She sucked **** on a whim in front of others or to the point that someone knew instantly... What else has happened that you or anyone else doesn't know about. Your better then me cause I would be questioning everything even down to the kids would get Maury tested.. Stay strong!!


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## Jeffery

Hello disillusioned14 How are things going for you< any updates

Have you stared the D process? 
What has your stbxww reaction? has she become angry and vengeful or is she still showing some remorse?

What about the rest of the family?

Infidelity is long in my past, love and life are good but i still have a twinge of pain from time to time,but i now have a good wife and life and the feeling goes away quickly and i have peace knowing i did the right thing for me. I hope that someday you can find peace in your heart.


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## weightlifter

this one was ripe for more discoveries.


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## Marc878

At the end of the day it's what the BH thinks that counts. Her, her family and even he kids don't get a vote.


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## TDSC60

The nature of this board is to give advice from folks who have "been there, done that, got the T-shirt". Not all situations are the same, so stories and advice will not be the same. Some folks are very good with the written word and some (like me) are not.

Some can submit advice without sounding pushy, some cannot. In the end, it is Disillusioned's call. But honestly, if my wife comes home and give me a big kiss "hello" after sucking off another guy and I found out, I would react the same as Disillusioned.

Disillusioned - if you are still out there - can you manage an update on your situation? We would all like to know how you are doing.


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## Marc878

disillusioned14 said:


> Thanks Thound.
> 
> Ele- it was the end of last summer when it started- the party. The truth drug out over the next several months. The last thing I found was kissing the ex boyfriend in Feb.


Doesn't look like a rash decision to me. He's thought about this for awhile. Sounds like the kids are gone and he doesn't want to waste life on something he'll never get over. 

I suspect he's looking back at what he's had and thinking it wasn't that great so why stay and spend years on something when deep in his thoughts it has little chance to work.

Smart move from my perspective. You can't get wasted time back.


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## BrokenLady

I've been a maid of honor 3 times & a bridesmaid 7 times. I've NEVER even heard of a friend of a friend of a friend who has been to a bachelorette party anything like that! NEVER!!! Is this a USA thing? I'm English. I can't even imagine my friends & family attending this kind of 'party'. It's so shocking!

It was the 'thing' to pay strippers for birthday parties etc particularly at work (down the pub) for 18 or 21 year old men & women by much older men. Everyone I've ever known who has had to suffer through the 'ordeal' of humiliation (having to sit on a chair in front of everyone to have a vanilla stripper go down to their undies) has HATED it & found it really embarrassing!! 

This post has been an education for me! I've never known anyone like it, let alone participate sexually. 

When we got married we wanted to do something different for our bachelor & bachelorette 'parties'. My H camped at a music festival with friends & I spent a week in Amsterdam with a few very close friends & family. As women we didn't even talk to men (except bar men etc) NOTHING sexual went on. I've never understood the 'last fling' of FREEDOM before the prison of M. That's so antiquated!!

My H hates the idea of strippers. Even at a music festival some guys managed to find a woman to pay to have sex with my H!! (in private, in the field) Close friends were disgusted & it turned into a drama. My H declined but the idea that a couple of men could be so DISRESPECTFUL to even think of the idea permanently broke friendships forever. 

The whole idea of what happened at the bachelorette party that the OPs wife attended is so SHOCKING. There must be a huge cultural difference for some members not to be horrified. I asked my H what he would do in the OPs position & his response was "That can't be real. It's a porn myth. No-one would really do that in front of friends & family!". 

To those talking about 'getting carried away', mob mentality, drunkenness etc. you live in a different world to me! As you can guess, I would of been one of the first out the door when the stripper took his undies off!! If the OP is like me I can fully understand just needing to get away from this whole experience. How can he look at his W the same way ever again? As my H said "it's like a porn myth", could male members say they could see their wives as anything other than 'less' by participating? I couldn't of married my H if he had done the equivalent. I can wrap my head around an affair. This whole situation is beyond my comprehension. 

The OP has gone. 
Can I ask how many members have ever attended an event like this? Did they participate? Could they understand if their partner did? Do they know people who take it lightly? (what culture are you from?) Does the strip club culture in the USA (people take their lunch break from work at strip clubs & say the 'wings' (food) are good!!!) make this less shocking? Are their women who are ok with their partners getting lap dances? Is it 'innocent fun'?

I'm just interested. I equate strippers (who take it all off) with prostitution. Do others?


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## Dyokemm

BrokenLady,

I only know of one lady who ever was at a party like this....so I don't think it is even common over here in the States.

But I guess based on this fact, one can only say it does rarely happen.

One of my closest female friends was at a party for one of her best college friends that turned bad like that.....she called her sister to come get her when it started to get wild.

In the 45 min she waited to get picked up, she said it got out of control.

She said the worst offenders were actually the older MARRIED women.....carrying on much as OP's WW and her friends did....AND disappearing into the back bedrooms and the bathroom behind closed doors for what she could only imagine was full on sex with one of the three strippers at the party AND the bartender that had been hired.

She did say that most of the women did NOT involve themselves in this activity....but they did cheer on those who did.

My friend was shocked...and apparently so was the bachelorette (who my friend says did not do anything), as my friend told me that some of the wildest women were her older cousins and even an aunt.

I have no idea of any fallout....even my friend doesn't because she really only knew the bachelorette, and not her family, and she was always too embarrassed to ask her if that night had any ramifications for her relatives and family friends.


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## phillybeffandswiss

The term bachelorette party is almost as common as bridal shower. Have to disagree with your assessment that it is rare. Now, the sex acts may be rare, but I've known quite a few who have hired strippers to counter their husband's bachelor party.


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## Roselyn

I'm around college age young people as I teach at the university level. Many are marrying during college years or just after. Bridal showers are often attended by their mothers, friends, and female relatives. Bachelorette parties may invite only female friends. In these occasions, I have not heard of any attendees mentioning male strippers. Oftentimes, they have fun teasing the bride with the "risque loungerie" when they gave their gifts.

As for my bachelorette party & my sister's many moons ago in the U.S., just female friends were invited. No male strippers and no alcohol in our gatherings. The attendees had plenty of jokes about men and the lingerie presents. There were lots of laughs at these gatherings.

The story in this post, is beyond the pale. This is truly shocking. Women do oral sex with a male stripper, in front of an audience? What kind of company does his wife keep? The OP, should divorce this shameless wife of his. If she does this in public, what would she do with other men in private?


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## Dyokemm

phillybeffandswiss said:


> The term bachelorette party is almost as common as bridal shower. Have to disagree with your assessment that it is rare. Now, the sex acts may be rare, but I've known quite a few who have hired strippers to counter their husband's bachelor party.


I agree.

I meant that this was the only female friend that has ever told me about sex at a bachelorette party.

Having strippers are not that uncommon.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Dyokemm said:


> I agree.
> 
> I meant that this was the only female friend that has ever told me about sex at a bachelorette party.
> 
> Having strippers are not that uncommon.


Yes and it is your social grooming that has you believing sex is rare for women at these things. Strippers and alcohol lead to bad things at bachelor and bachelorette parties. Women don't brag about it like men do.


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## Dyokemm

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes and it is your social grooming that has you believing sex is rare for women at these things. Strippers and alcohol lead to bad things at bachelor and bachelorette parties. Women don't brag about it like men do.


I get your point....but actually don't think sex with the strippers happens much at either bachelor or bachelorette parties.

I have never been to one where it happened, or even had any male friends or acquaintances whose parties I did not attend where it was reported to happen.

Lap dances?....yeah.....and I know some people consider that cheating and bad enough.

But it's not sex.

And as I said....only one woman I know said she had seen it.

Now I know this is anecdotal, and there is always the chance of non-reporting (maybe more so with the women than men, because I agree with you that men would be more likely to brag).....but that said, the vast majority of my friends, relatives, and co-workers are married.

And only one instance?.....well, in my personal circle that would work out to less than 1% of the people I know.

I know plenty of people who have had their M's effected by infidelity.....just not at these parties.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Dyokemm said:


> I get your point....but actually don't think sex with the strippers happens much at either bachelor or bachelorette parties.
> 
> I have never been to one where it happened, or even had any male friends or acquaintances whose parties I did not attend where it was reported to happen.
> 
> Lap dances?....yeah.....and I know some people consider that cheating and bad enough.
> 
> But it's not sex.
> 
> And as I said....only one woman I know said she had seen it.
> 
> Now I know this is anecdotal, and there is always the chance of non-reporting (maybe more so with the women than men, because I agree with you that men would be more likely to brag).....but that said, the vast majority of my friends, relatives, and co-workers are married.
> 
> And only one instance?.....well, in my personal circle that would work out to less than 1% of the people I know.
> 
> I know plenty of people who have had their M's effected by infidelity.....just not at these parties.


There are quite a few on this board and I know of a few, not friends, who have had sexual and sex happen at respective pre-wedding parties. )nce upon a time I was a bouncer/security for private parties like these and shenanigans occur much more than you think. We will disagree as I do not think it is often, but it Osn't rare.


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## naiveonedave

phillybeffandswiss said:


> There are quite a few on this board and I know of a few, not friends, who have had sexual and sex happen at respective pre-wedding parties. )nce upon a time I was a bouncer/security for private parties like these and shenanigans occur much more than you think. We will disagree as I do not think it is often, but it Osn't rare.


I agree. I was surprised by some of the bachelor parties I have been to....


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## bandit.45

Someone earlier brought up a good point. A "bachelorette party" is a very different animal from a "bridal shower". 

I think that some female guests go to a bachelorette party erroneously thinking it is going to be just a nice mile bridal shower with tea and crumpets, and then they get the shock of their lives to find out they have walked into a porn shoot. 

I would go out on a limb to say that most women would go to a shower thinking it will be a fairly safe and benign gathering. That's why all those women left the party when the stripper's banana sling came off.

This was an out and out bachelorette party. The bride to be and the women who planned it organised it for a very specific purpose. I have a hard time believing that the OP's wife innocently got herself in over her head and that this was a one off occurrence where she got drunk and allowed herself to get carried away. There was a culpability here, born from past experience. This was not her first time pushing the boundaries of her marriage. 

The OP's STBXW would not have even agreed to participate in this kind of party unless she felt totally comfortable doing so.


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## lostmyreligion

I slung beer in peeler bars for a long time in my twenties in BC, Can. At the time there were no rules for the girls on stage. Full nudity, girl on girl, object insertion (I haven't been able to drink a Coors Lite ever since watching Miss Harley Davidson sit on one with her "exit" and make it disappear). 

There was one rule however that was strictly enforced because it meant losing the bar's liquor license with just one infraction. That was that there was to be absolutely no physical contact whatsoever between the women on stage and the customers.

I watched a guy walk into one of these bars, and as he was walking past the stage, reach up and touch the heel of the performer's pump, which was all that she had for clothing left on and which she had swung out off the stage in his direction. Two gorillas immediately appeared and bum's rushed him headfirst out the door.

One of my closest friends was charged with sexual assault on his stag night when the girl on stage covered her hoo haa with whip cream sitting with her legs spread 2 feet from his face. She gestured for him to come and get it and he was so drunk he dove in face first. It took him years to get the charge expunged.

No guy I've ever known has had to hire strippers for the stag parties.
We just went on pub crawls and watched the entertainment (usually during gaps in the conversation) that was provided. 

This was true for the women as well, though they would have to plan the party around a 'lady's night' at some club that was featuring male strippers. I bounced for a while in one of these establishments, and when we had live entertainment come in, ALL of the male staff were expected to wear shorts, cuffs and a bow tie.

I looked freaking absurd. 

Huge double standard. The performers would have it hanging right in the face of some woman and if she touched it, meh, no big deal They would grind naked between a woman's spread (but clothed) legs sitting on the edge of the bar while she grabbed his butt. 

That said, never once saw a performer get a hand job or sucked off or have any kind of sex with the women. 

I did get my a$$ grabbed in my shorts from behind by my best friend's drunk mother one night. Truly not what you would ever expect from such a conservative Leave it to Beaver housewife. When she realized it was me, she was terribly embarrassed. Said she just got caught up in the excitement.

Never mentioned it to my buddy or anyone else in their family, but only because she was so horribly embarrassed. I knew her very well and honestly felt that it was a one-off and not some weird attraction to me personally. 

Wigged the holy crap out of me though.

I think OP's wife arranged the show knowing full well and in fact planning that she was going to get bawdy. Because it was in a private residence with friends, she mistakenly thought that the Vegas Rule (What happens in...) applied.


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## bandit.45

lostmyreligion said:


> I did get my a$$ grabbed in my shorts from behind by my best friend's drunk mother one night. Truly not what you would ever expect from such a conservative Leave it to Beaver housewife. When she realized it was me, she was terribly embarrassed. Said she just got caught up in the excitement.
> 
> Never mentioned it to my buddy or anyone else in their family, but only because she was so horribly embarrassed. I knew her very well and honestly felt that it was a one-off and not some weird attraction to me personally.
> 
> Wigged the holy crap out of me though.
> 
> I think OP's wife arranged the show knowing full well and in fact planning that she was going to get bawdy. Because it was in a private residence with friends, she mistakenly thought that the Vegas Rule (What happens in...) applied.


LOL! When I was eighteen I was a groomsman for one of my buddies at his wedding. I was still in high school and my buddy had knocked up his girlfriend and because they were Catholic they had to get married. Anyways, at the reception my buddy's aunt got wasted...totally fvcked up. As we were all leaving the reception, giving hugs to everyone, the aunt grabbed me tight and gave me a huge kiss right on the mouth. A deep, long, three or four second kiss.

This lady was in her forties, a mother of four, and when all the people saw what she did everything went dead silent. I mean you could have heard flies fvcking, it was that quiet. Now...I was the only white boy in a crowd of Latinos. Even though I had not instigated this, I knew I was a few moments way from getting my butt creamed by her husband and his compadres. I just stood there waiting for the beating when the other groomsmen grabbed me and threw me in a car and got me out of there. I felt like the President getting rushed to the limo by the secret service. We sped away laughing and asking each other "What the fvck!!???":surprise:

Needless to say that family never invited me to anymore weddings.


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## phillybeffandswiss

The one and only bachelor party I went to was at a house, like the OP, which involved hired strippers. I worked with a friend who used strippers that handled private parties at houses. The company had party buses which were used for bachelor and bachelorette parties. Even without intercourse, there was enough going on that wives and husbands would consider it cheating and infidelity IMO. I'm not disagreeing with your encounters, just saying your experience is far different than mine.


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## LongWalk

BrokenLady said:


> I've been a maid of honor 3 times & a bridesmaid 7 times. I've NEVER even heard of a friend of a friend of a friend who has been to a bachelorette party anything like that! NEVER!!! Is this a USA thing? I'm English. I can't even imagine my friends & family attending this kind of 'party'. It's so shocking!


Partly is a class thing. The more education and money people have, the less likely they are to act rashly in public. The US also has the so-called Spring Break when tens of thousands of college students travel to Florida to get drunk and nearly naked on the beach. The commercialization has made the stripping, wet T-shirts, etc. a new cultural institution.

So this has become more common.

The OP's wife bought into the notion that if it were culturally sanctioned she could do this. Turned out that her husband did not buy it.

It is tragic that her whole life went down the tubes. But as another poster noted, it probably put their whole life in a different context. If she had been a better partner and this was a complete aberration, a moment of madness, perhaps he would have over looked it.

As Bandit's experience demonstrates the liminal mind shifts at certain ages. So there is a biological selfish gene hazard for women who are close to the end of fertility.


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## workindad

lostmyreligion said:


> I slung beer in peeler bars for a long time in my twenties in BC, Can. At the time there were no rules for the girls on stage. Full nudity, girl on girl, object insertion (I haven't been able to drink a Coors Lite ever since watching Miss Harley Davidson sit on one with her "exit" and make it disappear).



Now that's a talented gal.

Hope the bottle or can was empty, If not...seems like a waste of a perfectly good beer. 

>>


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## BrokenLady

Oh my goodness! Please tell me it was a bottle & NOT a can or keg?!?!? :surprise:


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## manfromlamancha

Might we ever hear from OP (disillusioned) again ???


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## Truthseeker1

@disillusioned14 any updates?


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## GusPolinski

Pretty sure OP is long gone, folks.


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## Truthseeker1

GusPolinski said:


> Pretty sure OP is long gone, folks.


I wonder if once @disillusioned14 cooled off a bit and decided to R and is ashamed to come back and tell everyone that is what he chose to do.


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## bandit.45

Cool....let's make fun of him behind his back....:grin2:


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## Truthseeker1

bandit.45 said:


> Cool....let's make fun of him behind his back....:grin2:


LOL my money is on that he decided to R...and does not want to come back to TAM and tell us that...


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## GusPolinski

Truthseeker1 said:


> LOL my money is on that he decided to R...and does not want to come back to TAM and tell us that...


Given the overall tone to many of his posts, I'd be pretty surprised by that.


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## Truthseeker1

GusPolinski said:


> Given the overall tone to many of his posts, I'd be pretty surprised by that.


Perhaps he cooled off and had a change of heart or had some fun with a stripper of his own and decided to R..>


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## Chuck71

This wasn't a bachelor party but a guy friend from HS just returned from military action. He wanted to get married and her folks finally agreed... he was 22, she was 18 but very family oriented. We took him out, drank a bit. We did not drink heavily until we got back to my 1st love's mother's place. 1st love came in from working 2nds.... told me to come to bed when everyone was passed out. To say how long ago this was.... a few of us had just seen Motley Crue in concert (1990).

We all were plastered. Being it was my, what I thought someday, future MiL's place, I was partly responsible to make sure no one drove and all were passed out before I curled up with 1st love. Must have been 3AM.... I climbed into bed, cuddled, smooth warm body.... got a bit frisky. Her hand on my guy part, my hand inside her gal part. Wasn't sure at first but... this was a larger vagina than what I was used to. Well..... it was her mother.

1st love..... no clue why.... went to sleep in her little brother's bedroom (where MiL was any other night). Her mom... said nothing about being in 1st love's bedroom to me when she went in for bed. Shocked was an understatement. She screamed, I screamed....thank God I did not unload any "ice cream."

Everything was resolved that night.....for the most part. Small remarks did come up for several months. I do not know if a man is capable of schitting all over himself while ejaculating at the same time but.... if this had went on another few minutes... I would have found out.


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## farsidejunky

chuck71 said:


> this wasn't a bachelor party but a guy friend from hs just returned from military action. He wanted to get married and her folks finally agreed... He was 22, she was 18 but very family oriented. We took him out, drank a bit. We did not drink heavily until we got back to my 1st love's mother's place. 1st love came in from working 2nds.... Told me to come to bed when everyone was passed out. To say how long ago this was.... A few of us had just seen motley crue in concert (1990).
> 
> We all were plastered. Being it was my, what i thought someday, future mil's place, i was partly responsible to make sure no one drove and all were passed out before i curled up with 1st love. Must have been 3am.... I climbed into bed, cuddled, smooth warm body.... Got a bit frisky. Her hand on my guy part, my hand inside her gal part. Wasn't sure at first but... This was a larger vagina than what i was used to. Well..... It was her mother.
> 
> 1st love..... No clue why.... Went to sleep in her little brother's bedroom (where mil was any other night). Her mom... Said nothing about being in 1st love's bedroom to me when she went in for bed. Shocked was an understatement. She screamed, i screamed....thank god i did not unload any "ice cream."
> 
> everything was resolved that night.....for the most part. Small remarks did come up for several months. I do not know if a man is capable of schitting all over himself while ejaculating at the same time but.... If this had went on another few minutes... I would have found out.


rofl


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## Truthseeker1

Chuck71 said:


> This wasn't a bachelor party but a guy friend from HS just returned from military action. He wanted to get married and her folks finally agreed... he was 22, she was 18 but very family oriented. We took him out, drank a bit. We did not drink heavily until we got back to my 1st love's mother's place. 1st love came in from working 2nds.... told me to come to bed when everyone was passed out. To say how long ago this was.... a few of us had just seen Motley Crue in concert (1990).
> 
> We all were plastered. Being it was my, what I thought someday, future MiL's place, I was partly responsible to make sure no one drove and all were passed out before I curled up with 1st love. Must have been 3AM.... I climbed into bed, cuddled, smooth warm body.... got a bit frisky. Her hand on my guy part, my hand inside her gal part. Wasn't sure at first but... this was a larger vagina than what I was used to. Well..... it was her mother.
> 
> 1st love..... no clue why.... went to sleep in her little brother's bedroom (where MiL was any other night). Her mom... said nothing about being in 1st love's bedroom to me when she went in for bed. Shocked was an understatement. She screamed, I screamed....thank God I did not unload any "ice cream."
> 
> Everything was resolved that night.....for the most part. Small remarks did come up for several months. I do not know if a man is capable of schitting all over himself while ejaculating at the same time but.... if this had went on another few minutes... I would have found out.


You got some interesting stories...lol


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## Chuck71

Ripper said:


> *Well, I've seen just about every manipulation tactic in the book thrown at OP in this thread. *
> 
> We have people trying to minimize his wife's actions, throwing out "think about the children" (who are grown adults and agree with him btw), using fear tactics (a.k.a you will be all alone while the kids are with mom), and now some kind of bizarre moral relativity.
> 
> What I see is a guy that has busted his ass, worked two jobs at one point to get this woman the lifestyle she desired, overlooked one instance of infidelity and has went a decade without a blow job. What the hell kind of relationship are you people seeing that would be worth saving from his perspective?


oh yeahhhhh try this one then

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...94-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker-146.html


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