# Is Spanking Okay?



## Mrs.G

I have been working through my physically abusive childhood with my therapist. She believes that it is the main reason why I choose to remain childfree.
How do the parents on TAM feel about corporal punishment?
In my eyes, a swat on the bum is fine, provided the child is warned beforehand and given a chance to change their behavior.
Jamaican parents often treat their children with the brutality of prison guards. Kicking, punching and strangling is encouraged, as well as use of belts and extension cords. Minor childish mistakes are punished harshly.
I knew this Latino woman who took pride in knocking her kids' heads together and making them shake with fear. *shakes head* How could parents laugh at how badly they hurt their kids?? Seems rather sick to me.
I hate dissecting that aspect of my life...it's very draining and sad. My therapist think it's necessary, though. Talking isn't going to change anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenpearl

Mrs.G

I have been teaching children for nine years. 

For quite a few years, I easily got frustrated when my students didn't do well. When I was frustrated, I would raise my voice, and my voice can be very pretty scary. 

Now I realize it is the teacher's problem. She couldn't control herself and she didn't understand children very well. When you understand that children are not adults, when you understand they can't always meet the standards you set or expected, you become more patient. You just shake your head and teach it again. 

Same thing with parents. A lot of parents are young, they don't know much about child's behavior, they don't understand children. They become frustrated that their children don't meet the standards they set. They yell, they shout, they beat, it only shows that the parents don't know self-control ability! 

For kids, you tell them clearly what they can do and what they can't do, you set boundaries for them. When they are doing things which you don't approve, a harsh look and a harsh voice are enough.


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## Syrum

I know many will disagree with me, but I have studied child development and I have raised one child to almost 18 and one to almost 5. I disagree entirely with fear based punishment for children, I also do not believe in shaming children. I think it's counter productive, and too many parents cross the line between punishment and abuse (no not all). When I see someone strike a child, I often think that they are the ones out of control, and they have let the situation get the better of them. I also think it's easier to strike children then put the effort in required for other discipline.

With my little boy, I have never ever put my hands on him in anger and frustration and I am very proud of that. He is not a perfect child, but he is for the most part very lovable and well behaved.
I am also one who I believe is realistic about my children's behaviour, I know they are not perfect and need to be held accountable when they do something wrong. However I also feel that children are small people, and need to be treated like people and we need to understand that they have complex emotions too, they can have bad days just like us, can be sad, happy, tired, excited etc. we need to understand this when disciplining and not expect more of children then we would ourselves.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

Syrum said:


> I know many will disagree with me, but I have studied child development and I have raised one child to almost 18 and one to almost 5. I disagree entirely with fear based punishment for children, I also do not believe in shaming children. I think it's counter productive, and too many parents cross the line between punishment and abuse (no not all). When I see someone strike a child, I often think that they are the ones out of control, and they have let the situation get the better of them. I also think it's easier to strike children then put the effort in required for other discipline.
> 
> With my little boy, I have never ever put my hands on him in anger and frustration and I am very proud of that. He is not a perfect child, but he is for the most part very lovable and well behaved.
> I am also one who I believe is realistic about my children's behaviour, I know they are not perfect and need to be held accountable when they do something wrong. However I also feel that children are small people, and need to be treated like people and we need to understand that they have complex emotions too, they can have bad days just like us, can be sad, happy, tired, excited etc. we need to understand this when disciplining and not expect more of children then we would ourselves.


i agree with this.
i do think sometimes you just cant seem to get a childs attention for some reason. i feel at times like this if you just pat them on the rear just enough to get their attention so you know they are listening is plenty enough.
i dont think it should be enough to try and inflict any pain to them at all, strictly an attention getter only. i also feel when they get older that time-outs and restricting their use of things they like also do the trick.
i raised 3 girls (all grown now) with very little of even the attention getting pats though they did get their fair share of things taken away for a short time.
i do not think any type of punishment should include pain at all.


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## MGirl

The only time I give my son a swat on the bottom is if he's doing something that endangers himself. Trying to put his finger in a light socket, running into the street, touching the hot stove, etc. When he gets a swat, he knows it's very serious and it gets his attention immediately. All other times, he either gets time-out or toys/privileges removed.


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## Catherine602

MG our backgrounds are similar my parents were from Barbados and believed in corporal punishment. Child abuse was not in their vocabulary. I too have been in therapy to try and deal with an abusive childhood. There are different theories on how to get over an abusive past, a school of thought is that the details should not be discussed. Rather the emotional pain and how to reprogram the thought to a more adaptive response. 

With the guidance of my therapist, I learned to put those memories in a mental file cabinet and locking them away. Sometimes I review them but that is rare now. The theory is that reviewing them and the associated feelings is useless, you can't make any sense of it because it was senseless. However the emotional reactions were real and normal and that is what effects your view of reality. You can google different forms of therapy and see what you think of the various approaches. One size does not fit all I think, dredging up traumatic events seems to injure anew, you can't forget what happened but you can decide to put away the pain with out reliving.it. once is enough. 

As far as kids - I never touch my kids in anger, and use no form of corporal punishment. Since I did not know how to parent with out violence, I read and observed parenting of people with well adjusted kids. I have two well adjusted children and they have had the childhood I should have had. 

That's a victory and the best defense against evil practices. I also told my parents of the affect that their treatment had on me. I told them when I had my kids that I would not allow contact with them unsupervised because I did not trust them. I could have been less blunt. I forgive them because they did what their culture dictated. 

Don't make the decision not to have kids a final one, make it temporary until you feel confident that you have learned what it takes to be a good parent. Hang around people with well adjusted kids who have a parenting style you like. You will gain confidence that you will not do to your children what was done to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lime

Syrum said:


> I know many will disagree with me, but I have studied child development and I have raised one child to almost 18 and one to almost 5. I disagree entirely with fear based punishment for children, I also do not believe in shaming children. I think it's counter productive, and too many parents cross the line between punishment and abuse (no not all). When I see someone strike a child, I often think that they are the ones out of control, and they have let the situation get the better of them. I also think it's easier to strike children then put the effort in required for other discipline.
> 
> With my little boy, I have never ever put my hands on him in anger and frustration and I am very proud of that. He is not a perfect child, but he is for the most part very lovable and well behaved.
> 
> I am also one who I believe is realistic about my children's behaviour, I know they are not perfect and need to be held accountable when they do something wrong. However I also feel that children are small people, and need to be treated like people and we need to understand that they have complex emotions too, they can have bad days just like us, can be sad, happy, tired, excited etc. we need to understand this when disciplining and not expect more of children then we would ourselves.


I agree 100%! I was NEVER spanked as a child, and as a result, I feel like I have a closer relationship with my parents. 

Hitting your kids teaches them that it's ok to hit when they feel angry. Shaming them creates resentment. I'm also a fan of the idea that the punishment should match the misbehavior and try and FIX whatever they messed up. Getting spanked for hitting a baseball through a neighbor's window is kind of pointless in my opinion; apologizing and working odd jobs to pay for the repair costs fixes the problem AND teaches them a lesson.

I do think it's ok to push/pull/swat a hand away if the kid is doing something that could be harmful, since sometimes those actions can be the fastest/most effective things to stop dangerous behaviors.


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## Mrs.G

Hey Catherine. I agree with not dredging up trauma.
I chose to marry a childfree man, so that children would not be an issue. We have scheduled his vasectomy. There are other reasons unrelated to my childhood. 
Swats to get the child's attention is fine. Anything worse than that is not.
Ever got the dutch pot cover on the head, Catherine? LOL West Indian parents are PSYCHO. I find that joking about it helps.
The head knocking mother beat her daughter with a belt, because she caught her little girl masturbating more than once. Children touch themselves-it is natural curiosity about their bodies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sisters359

I have three really nice kids-well-behaved and welcome everywhere they go. I have never touched one of them as a form of discipline. When children are too young to keep themselves safe, you make the environment safe (child-proofing). As they get older, you start loosening up on some restrictions, slowly. Holding firm is the most significant part, b/c they will always, always, always push for more freedom. This can be a 6 year old who wants to cross the street by herself or the teen who thinks he should not have a curfew. 

Honeslty, most parents just don't seem to realize that action is necessary. My kids learned very early that I would MOVE to stop them--take away toys they used inappropriately, pick them up and take them to a time out if they were out of control, etc. Kids ignore yelling and threats; they respect action. But action does not mean hitting, ever. 

The moment anyone resorts to using size and strength to exert their influence, they have lost respect and gained fear. Fear is only effective as long as you are around. It does not teach a child (or another adult) anything about you and your values; it teaches them to fear you, nothing more. They will make poor choices when on their own. 

I am so sorry to hear about these common practices in your childhood(s). May God help you heal.


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## Runs like Dog

I used to wish my parents would hit me. At least it would be attention. It's one of the reasons I was so bad as a kid.

Has anyone ever gone to Freudian analysis? It's frickin weird. You sit in a room with an analyst who says NOTHING. Not a word. For the whole 55 minute hour. Now imagine if that was your childhood.


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## greenpearl

Runs like Dog said:


> I used to wish my parents would hit me. At least it would be attention. It's one of the reasons I was so bad as a kid.
> 
> Has anyone ever gone to Freudian analysis? It's frickin weird. You sit in a room with an analyst who says NOTHING. Not a word. For the whole 55 minute hour. Now imagine if that was your childhood.


Imagine if a father tells the daughter: you are just a burden on me; If not were you, my life would be good now; When you are married, you are like water poured on the ground! 

Now this daughter has been giving them money ever since she left home, she is giving them more money than his sons! 


A lot of parents are frustrated about their own situation, they themselves are not well adjusted, they take it out on their children. They blame their children. 

Being a parent is not just providing food, clothes, and a shelter. You have to provide love and teaching! 

Love and encouragement to children is like water and sunshine to plants!


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## F-102

One guy asked me how I discipline my kid, and I was speechless: I had no answer.
I never had to "discipline" my kid-she is very well behaved and no trouble at all. I never hit her (okay, once on the hand when she was little), but I look at how I'm raising her compared to how I was brought up. 
My mother would always hit, belittle, ridicule and always, ALWAYS, threaten violence. If I had a nickel for every time she told me: "if you(insert infraction here), your ass has had it!", I'd be rich. Her medium of choice was the belt or the wooden spoon.
Dad would never hit, but shame, ridicule and the guilt trip were his things. So, naturally, I never learned what it was to experience life, I was only made to "fear the consequences".

I resent them to this day for it-and they could never seem to understand why their kids were such "animals".

So, I saw that their methods, to put it mildly, SUCKED, and saw how they raised my little brother (he was spoiled rotten and very hard to handle-again, they just couldn't understand why), and took it as what NOT to do.

And, 11 years of praise, encouragement and not going berserk when she screws up, no hitting or threats of violence or ridicule later, I still have a very well behaved, polite, straight-A student for a daughter.

Gee, I wonder why?


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## Catherine602

Mrs.G said:


> Hey Catherine. I agree with not dredging up trauma.
> I chose to marry a childfree man, so that children would not be an issue. We have scheduled his vasectomy. There are other reasons unrelated to my childhood.
> Swats to get the child's attention is fine. Anything worse than that is not.
> Ever got the dutch pot cover on the head, Catherine? LOL West Indian parents are PSYCHO. I find that joking about it helps.
> The head knocking mother beat her daughter with a belt, because she caught her little girl masturbating more than once. Children touch themselves-it is natural curiosity about their bodies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Do you mean the heavy pot used to make stew chicken!! Mercy. My mother beat us for minor infractions that any child would make. Once my sister and drifted away from the window she watched us out of when we played outside. 

She beat us both for that - how confusing - an innocent error - any normal parent would come out and find the child and remind to stay in view. Not my mother, she waited and surprised us. Nice huh. 

I forgave a long time ago because it released me and made me feel a great deal of compassion and love for my mother. The abuse in her childhood was extreme and she knew no better. 

I read your other post about your wedding plans or should i say your mothers plans. She seems jealous of you and wants to live your life. Does she like the spot light on herself? 

The fact that so many of your family side with your mother show the depth of the pathology. I feel sorry they are a hostage to such a woman. Avenge yourself by living well and being happy. 

Your financial straits are temporary. We had very little money when we married, we were both in school, but we had goals. It took awhile but we are comfortable now. 

One thing my parents gave me was the immigrant mentality - never allow defeat, when one door closes, don't beat your hands bloody on it, find the open door. I have a self confidence in my abilities that seems strange given that I was so beaten down in my childhood. I am certain you, like me, have that resiliency too. :toast:


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## Mrs.G

Yes, the stew chicken pot. Needed glasses soon after.
My mother was horribly abused as well. She talks about it all the time and says how awful it was to be a child. Poor woman...sometimes I feel so bad for her.
She is very jealous and resentful of me, especially the relationship I have with my dad. He's a sweet, quiet man emasculated by my mother.
The financial situation has improved slightly...we have extra cash to go out on dates or little getaways. We are planning a trip to see my in laws. As a way to thank them for being supportive, we are allowing my mother in law to plan an anniversary dinner for us. His family took our elopement in stride. They sent cards and money...such pleasant surprises.
We have an amazingly solid marriage; dealing with my crazy family has been a necessary evil. We do what we can to keep our special connection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greeneyeddolphin

I spank my children in certain, limited circumstances. Mainly when nothing else has worked (time out, loss of privileges, natural consequences, etc.), or in a situation where I feel the pain of a spanking is less hurtful than the pain they will get from whatever they're going to do but I know they will remember the spanking. For example, if they were going to touch a hot stove (when they were littler), I might spank because I know a few swats to their bottom will hurt much less than a third degree burn to their hand, and I also know they will remember that I spanked them when they went to touch the stove and therefore will not touch it again. 

I do, however, strongly feel that the only appropriate spanking is one done with a hand only: no spoons, belts, wooden paddles, etc. I also do not believe it should leave lasting marks. A red butt immediately after, ok. A red butt an hour later, no. A bruise the next day or a week later, no way. I also feel it should not be done for every little infraction, either. Done that way, not only is it not an appropriate way to punish, but I think eventually the child becomes "numb" to it...they no longer see it as "Mom really wants to get a point across because this is serious so I better learn from it!" and ends up just being as "oh, Mom's gonna beat my ass again...ok, let's get it done." 

I also believe it needs to be limited to the butt. No face slaps, punching, pushing, arm yanking, stuff like that.


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## Mrs.G

Spanking is fine, abuse is not.
The parents who spank on this thread sound very reasonable. 
I am learning to look at my experiences with the eyes of a compassionate adult, not the wounded child I was.
I feel awful for my mother, as she is a sick person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

MGirl said:


> The only time I give my son a swat on the bottom is if he's doing something that endangers himself. Trying to put his finger in a light socket, running into the street, touching the hot stove, etc. When he gets a swat, he knows it's very serious and it gets his attention immediately. All other times, he either gets time-out or toys/privileges removed.


 Yep.

I got spanked ONCE. And I still remember it like it's yesterday. I spanked my DD20 ONCE. Never needed to after that. She knew it was an option and I would use it. That's all it took. The rest of the time I used logic. And time outs.


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## SimplyAmorous

I have been spanked as a child, my husband was spanked, I have spanked. None of us have needed therepy, suffer from trauma, my kids do not fear me (well maybe sometimes -ha ha), they know they can pretty much say ANYTHING to me, I did not feel my parents abused me, nor does my husband. His dad used to threaten the belt , I don't think he ever used it though, and let me tell you, he was one of the kindest men In this world, his family even took ME in before I was even engaged to their son. I lived with them for a few years before we married. 

And not to go on bragging here, but it seems it is in order to "defend" that my children are well adjusted somehow. They do not cause trouble in school-ever, I have had MANY MANY compliments on my kids over the years from teachers, people in church, you name it. They get good grades, hang around with good kids. Many are christian kids who definitely were spanked -more than mine even. 

Even strangers- Often when we go out to eat... we are a family of 8, our littlest is 4, when others see us enter a restaurant , they probably think "OH Lord, dont let them sit by us -look at all those kids!" --but pretty near every time, some older couple comes over to us before they leave or has been smiling across our table watching us & gives us a compliment on how well behaved our children are. When it doesn't happen, we make a comment to ourselves cause that is rarer. I will admit our last little boy is the biggest handful so far and those comments are coming a little less these days. 

I just don't see this as an all 'black & white" issue, anything in life that is meant for a purpose can BE ABUSED in the hands of a misguided person. Even something as good as Breastfeeding can be abused. I was once on a Parenting site where this MOM was still Breastfeeing her child at age 6 !!! And other Moms were defending this ? Really! Is this not abusive, is this healthy? 


I have personally used it (examples) -if one of my young children reached for a hot burner on the stove, or was tempted to run out on the road after a ball. For me, I want to give an IMMEDIATE ALERTED response to something that could put there life in danger, or someone elses. Safety is my motto. Spanking can give that. This is not abuse in MY OPIONION. And along with this spanking -I will do my best to speak their language why they can NOT do these things again.

When they can be reasoned with, I am all for taking anything they absolutely LOVE away from them -this speaks volumes to get them to mind you. I once watched Dr Phil where literally the parents kept removing things from this kids's room because he would not listen, eventually he was the only thing left in the room. It was quite a severe situation but interesting. 

I am a FIRM one on having consequences for my children, I want them to grow up responsible and NOT need to run to Mom & dad for help with $$, or crying they got themselves in trouble. I am for many forms of discipline. If I had a child who was REALLY out of control, I might even send them to "Boot camp", but that is just me. I don't think I need to worry about this cause I am doing my job at home.


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## turnera

Same here. The only thing spanking my daughter did was prove to her that she controls her own actions - and consequences. I am now her best friend and the worst thing she's ever done is skip school one day the last month of high school - and she asked me permission to do that! And felt guilty!


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## Mom6547

Mrs.G said:


> I have been working through my physically abusive childhood with my therapist. She believes that it is the main reason why I choose to remain childfree.
> How do the parents on TAM feel about corporal punishment?


At best, among the very least effective tools in the discipline arsenal. It is aimed at momentary obedience and fails in the goal of teaching life long lessons. It tends to distract the child from the underlying lesson at hand, the moral or problem solving skill to be taught and replaces it with fear, anger, resentment and the feeling of victimization.

There are FAR more effective techniques and tools to use to achieve true discipline, the goal being SELF discipline than punishment of any kind, particularly corporal.




> In my eyes, a swat on the bum is fine, provided the child is warned beforehand and given a chance to change their behavior.


In my opinion, you have already lost the battle by aiming so low as to seek only behavior not learning, not understanding or ability to reason right from wrong for themselves.




> I hate dissecting that aspect of my life...it's very draining and sad. My therapist think it's necessary, though. Talking isn't going to change anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



It might wind up changing how you feel about your past and thus your understanding of your future. I am not a big fan of spanking as you can guess from above. But most of what is argued against is not to the main point. My father spanked all of us. The worst that could be said about him in this is that he was misguided. It was one small mistake in a sea of love, caring, guidance, time... and did I mention love? Was spanking a big deal? No. I trusted him. He believed he was doing right. 

But he admitted to me in later years that he felt that that was the least important thing he ever did to instill character and morals into his children. And I agree with him 2,000%!


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## unbelievable

I believe there are few absolutes. Reasonable corporal punishment may be appropriate for some kids in certain situations. I've raised three and although they knew I could and would spank them, I almost never had to and whatever punishment I carried out was done in love and not while I was upset. For my eldest daughter, a stern look or quick lecture was enough to solve any behavior issue she ever had. My son did not respond to lectures, warnings, stern looks, threats, and a spanking was just nothing to him. What got his attention was "time out". It just killed him to have to sit inactive for any length of time. I guess the point is all kids are different and a parent needs to know what works for their particular kid. Whatever is used, I think it should be consistently applied, it should be appropriate for the level of misconduct, it should be carried out swiftly, never in anger, and once the punishment has been given, the kid gets the assurance that he/she is still loved, they have paid for their mistake, and they now have a clean slate. I also think if one punishes bad behavior, they should be even more eager to reward good behavior. The positive incentives worked better on my kids than the punishments, but every kid needs to be tightened up every now and then. Consistency is key, IMO.


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## Mom6547

I swear to... I don't even know what since I don't believe in God, that every parent in the world should read this book.

Amazon.com: Discipline for Life : Getting it Right with Children (9781887069069): Madelyn Swift: Books


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## turnera

unbelievable said:


> I believe there are few absolutes. Reasonable corporal punishment may be appropriate for some kids in certain situations. I've raised three and although they knew I could and would spank them, I almost never had to and whatever punishment I carried out was done in love and not while I was upset. For my eldest daughter, a stern look or quick lecture was enough to solve any behavior issue she ever had. My son did not respond to lectures, warnings, stern looks, threats, and a spanking was just nothing to him. What got his attention was "time out". It just killed him to have to sit inactive for any length of time. I guess the point is all kids are different and a parent needs to know what works for their particular kid. Whatever is used, I think it should be consistently applied, it should be appropriate for the level of misconduct, it should be carried out swiftly, never in anger, and once the punishment has been given, the kid gets the assurance that he/she is still loved, they have paid for their mistake, and they now have a clean slate. I also think if one punishes bad behavior, they should be even more eager to reward good behavior. The positive incentives worked better on my kids than the punishments, but every kid needs to be tightened up every now and then. Consistency is key, IMO.


 Yep.


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## Mrs.G

Parents surely make mistakes. What matters is how those mistakes are acknowleged and corrected.
An occasional spanking is fine, within reason. However, we were BEATEN, not spanked. Kicking and punching, as well as the use of heavy objects is against the law. I was obedient, but also terrified and depressed. By the time I was 12, I knew I would distance myself from my mother as soon as I could rise to the challenge.
I am not a mother, so I can only communicate what I believe through a limited perspective. All children need boundaries and consequences for their behavior. They need to be taught how to be responsible. Beating them mercilessly accomplishes nothing.
Love is not supposed to leave bruises or cause self hate. 
I no longer hate my mother, but I cannot allow her negative influence in my life. I don't want it around my marriage. 
If a mother beats her children and abuses them verbally, she is setting herself up for a lonely old age. I can forgive, but I'll never forget.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog

These kids nowadays, they call 911 for the slightest thing.


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## unbelievable

My teenage son threatened to call 911 once. I told him to go ahead but to tell them to send the crime scene truck. He wisely reconsidered.


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## marksaysay

Spanking is a necessary part of good child rearing. I'm not advocating it's overuse, but at times it is best.


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## unbelievable

I honestly think that if you teach them the rules of the game early (that you're in charge and they aren't), you should have few problems later. We (the police) get called cause 8 year old Johnny won't go to bed or won't go to school or whatever. It usually turns out that the figure(s) posing as parents thought it was ok or cute to let their little 2-3 year old call the shots and it wasn't so cute at age 8. 
As far as 911 threats, there's no law against disciplining one's child. In Tennessee (and probably most other states) it's not illegal to spank one. You can't be ridiculous about it but the courts understand the difference between discipline and abuse. Your kid slams his bedroom door, take it off it's hinges. Sticks earphones in and turns up his music while you're talking to him, he loses his Ipod.
You have to feed them, give them adequate medical treatment, adequate clothing, a roof, and an education. The law doesn't require that you provide TVs, stereos, cars, computers, game systems, cell phones. They want cool stuff and I want good behavior. If I get what I want they can have what they want.


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## turnera

Mrs.G said:


> If a mother beats her children and abuses them verbally, she is setting herself up for a lonely old age. I can forgive, but I'll never forget.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spanking a child who chooses to disobey despite warnings is NOT the same thing as abusing and beating.


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## DepressedHusband

Mrs.G said:


> I have been working through my physically abusive childhood with my therapist. She believes that it is the main reason why I choose to remain childfree.
> How do the parents on TAM feel about corporal punishment?
> In my eyes, a swat on the bum is fine, provided the child is warned beforehand and given a chance to change their behavior.
> Jamaican parents often treat their children with the brutality of prison guards. Kicking, punching and strangling is encouraged, as well as use of belts and extension cords. Minor childish mistakes are punished harshly.
> I knew this Latino woman who took pride in knocking her kids' heads together and making them shake with fear. *shakes head* How could parents laugh at how badly they hurt their kids?? Seems rather sick to me.
> I hate dissecting that aspect of my life...it's very draining and sad. My therapist think it's necessary, though. Talking isn't going to change anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I gie my son a pat on the ass once in a while, but I limit it to that. Ocassionally he gets the ear lobe grab if he is being obtuse and that seems to focus his attention. 

However all children are different and you have to pay attention to work works best with each child and being willing to try different things. 

Biggest thing is that a pat on the butt goes a long way and often cuts the drama right out of any situation. Boy more likely to need this type of remedy then girls. 

Thats not a freeride to beat the **** out of your kids though. one smack with a pre run up count down from 1 to 3 is usually sufficient cupped hand on the butt to emphasis the sound and minimize the sting. 


anymore my son has only had a few whacks on the butt but the first one out of diaper got his attention and he took notice of that 1,2,3 count and has since started to get it together by 2. 

We did try timeouts, they just didn't work with him. He got the butt smack though.


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## Pandakiss

i think there is a time for a good pop in the mouth, and a few times, ima get the belt...depends..

my oldest is my size and almost my height..i cant just swat her, but i dont hit her anymore..she is to big,and if her father hit her that just seems wrong, so i yell and take away her things...

my litte ones...a different strory...one of the girls iss very sensitive, and i just have to look like i mean business, and she breaks down and cries...so i dont touch her...this diva, she laughs,and fake cries...

but they had to disobey a lot to get it...yes my momma beat the crap out of me when i was commin up...i think i needed it...dosent bother me...hell my mom would still swing on me up until i was 23/24....i would just walk away, but she still had it in her...

its funny now....but i think it really depends on the kid...what kind of person they are...w do talks, corner, early bed time, charecter buiding housework...

husband got whooped, his mom stopped when he was 11/12/13..somewhere in there...she dosent hit her younger kids at home...and they are off tha damn chain..lol

i think some kids are just good kids, and some kids are always pushing to see what they can get away with..

and what is up with kids thinking they will call the police on you for knocking some sense into them??? i would not have dared to call on my mom..husband said he would havenot eeven thought to call cps..lol..now as we look back..its not a big deal..we were f-ups, and rebelious, and thought we knew it all..we knew the way the world works...

we didnt have a clue...but my mom was in charge, and she let me know it...if she let me run over her i would have lost all respect for her, and i dont think i would have depended on her to care for me..

its like...how can you take charge of a situation out in the world, and keep us safe, if you can stand up to a child and tell her to show respect, respect for her, her rules. her household, and respect for myself..

idk..maybe thats just twisted...but there always has to be a leader..someone in charge...if you bow down and let the kids run over..they will not know how to be "in charge". and chasos will ensue, and nobody is respecting anyone..


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## Mrs.G

turnera said:


> Spanking a child who chooses to disobey despite warnings is NOT the same thing as abusing and beating.


I said that. I said "spanking is okay. Abuse is not."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs.G

Runs like Dog said:


> These kids nowadays, they call 911 for the slightest thing.


I agree. Children are far too empowered.
We NEVER called professionals, even though we should have. Come on...bleeding bite marks for not doing a chore fast enough? A pot to the head just because your daughter asked for a certain hairstyle?
Not normal or necessary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mentallydrained

greenpearl said:


> Mrs.G
> 
> I have been teaching children for nine years.
> 
> For quite a few years, I easily got frustrated when my students didn't do well. When I was frustrated, I would raise my voice, and my voice can be very pretty scary.
> 
> Now I realize it is the teacher's problem. She couldn't control herself and she didn't understand children very well. When you understand that children are not adults, when you understand they can't always meet the standards you set or expected, you become more patient. You just shake your head and teach it again.
> 
> Same thing with parents. A lot of parents are young, they don't know much about child's behavior, they don't understand children. They become frustrated that their children don't meet the standards they set. They yell, they shout, they beat, it only shows that the parents don't know self-control ability!
> 
> For kids, you tell them clearly what they can do and what they can't do, you set boundaries for them. When they are doing things which you don't approve, a harsh look and a harsh voice are enough.


I so agree with this!!!:iagree: I DO have a 7yr old girl. My up brining including yelling, stern voice, 'the look' and spanking. It was just me and my older brother and there were several times we were spanked. Sometimes with a belt, sometimes, on bare bottoms.

Back then, spanking was allowed in school. I hated the days they would send those damn notes home for parents to sign your child was allowed to be spanked if warrented. My dad signed those so willingly! I never considered us 'beaten'. I look back and often think it taught us much respect.

Dad has been gone 11yrs now. Both my brother and I have found out through counseling this up bringing has a major affect now on us with our own relationships and kids. He has a son.

I see in my daughter how SHE reacts just the way I do, and it comes from how I react, they way my dad always did. Sadly, when my H disciplines her, he is a lot like my dad as well and he wants to spank. He goes a bit into name calling like baby...drama queen...spoiled brat...and whenI see him getting so short to where I sense he's on edge of loosing it...I always try to interven with a difuser. I get worried and see in her, me when I was that age with my dad. I feared my dad. Literally, feared him. Never could talk to him. Open up to him. I don't want my DD feeling that way.

I want her to respect, not fear. I am trying to learn better techniques. Better control of my voice. I feel I'm relearning at the age of 7, to discipline all over. Not that I ever truly learned, but you understand. I hope.


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## turnera

We had some friends who had a son, and the son wasn't as 'manly' as the dad wanted. So when he was around 5, the dad started calliing him a girl's name. And putting him in one sport after another. The further they went, the less athletic the boy became, and the more the father put him down. And on and on. I tried to explain what he was doing, but he wasn't interested. That kid's in prison now.


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## mentallydrained

Mrs.G said:


> I agree. Children are far too empowered.
> We NEVER called professionals, even though we should have. Come on...bleeding bite marks for not doing a chore fast enough? A pot to the head just because your daughter asked for a certain hairstyle?
> Not normal or necessary.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have been at the grocery, where a child is completely out of controll and the parent you could tell was trying to 'quietly yet sternly' get them to calm down. Obviously they threatend spanking when they were to get home as the child yelled full force "You can't spank or hit me cuz ill get you put in jail!!"


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## mentallydrained

Mrs.G said:


> I said that. I said "spanking is okay. Abuse is not."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree difference between discipline spank and abuse. However, I have learned via counseling, the spanks I got in conjunction with the stern/yelling, left me to fear as well. It is a fine line.

But also agree with previous posters...I praise the Nanny! The techniques she uses to get kids to sleep in there beds on own...worked for us. Very emotionally painful and at time seemed like forever but honestly, took 3 maybe 4 days and tada!!


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## Mrs.G

turnera said:


> We had some friends who had a son, and the son wasn't as 'manly' as the dad wanted. So when he was around 5, the dad started calliing him a girl's name. And putting him in one sport after another. The further they went, the less athletic the boy became, and the more the father put him down. And on and on. I tried to explain what he was doing, but he wasn't interested. That kid's in prison now.


*shakes head* I don't know what some parents are thinking. These are the same morons who constantly beat up (not spank) their children, and then wonder why the kid has emotional problems or stays away in adulthood.
I am well aware of the difference between discipline and abuse. What you described with your daughter is NOT abuse. I believe a will timed smack on the ass is necessary at times. 
As I continue to reiterate, I was beaten, not spanked. I highly doubt that you would ever strangle or bite your daughter, nor would you kick her or tell her that she will be a hore when she grows up.
I have attempted to confront my mother with her actions. She vacilitates between denial and blaming me. LOL What a hot mess!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Yeah. I'm sure you know she will likely never acknowledge it. Best to move on.


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## magnoliagal

I have 3 very well behaved children (ages 10, 8 and 5). I've never hit them and never plan to. It takes more work and creativity to discipline without spanking but it can be done.


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## jimrich

Mrs.Gre:


> Talking isn't going to change anything.


It changed a lot for me! But talking is just the beginning. Then comes the grief work: RAGE, SORROW, FEAR AND MORE R A G E !!!! It took me about 6 years to vent some of my deep RAGE over the horrible way we were brutally raised!


> She believes that it is the main reason why I choose to remain childfree.


I have no kids. I just don't want to put a child through a sh*tty life like I had!


> How do the parents on TAM feel about corporal punishment?


I'm not a parent BUT I KNOW it's insane!


> In my eyes, a swat on the bum is fine, provided the child is warned beforehand and given a chance to change their behavior.


IMO, even a swat is still an insane act by someone lucky enough to have a helpless victim to take out their IMPULSIVE ANGER on! It's revenge pure and simple! Adults rarely SWAT other adults! Why? - IT'S DANGEROUS! Not so with a defenseless child! ONLY COWARDS SWAT a defenseless child!


> Jamaican parents often treat their children with the brutality of prison guards. Kicking, punching and strangling is encouraged, as well as use of belts and extension cords. Minor childish mistakes are punished harshly.


And only because THEY CAN!


> I knew this Latino woman who took pride in knocking her kids' heads together and making them shake with fear. *shakes head* How could parents laugh at how badly they hurt their kids??


It's easy when you are SICK and there is nothing stopping you!


> Seems rather sick to me.


3 CHEERS!


> I hate dissecting that aspect of my life...it's very draining and sad. My therapist think it's necessary, though. Talking isn't going to change anything.


I'd say it is necessary if you are to face and HEAL all those old, buried wounds. It may take several years BUT it's worth it, IMO.

My parents 'punished' us so severly that I wanted to commit suicide at about 6-7 - just couldn't think of a painless way to do it, LOL. 
Re all those who subsribe to beatings and hitting. All such abuse ever taught me was to fear my abusers and do my thing behind their filthy backs - nothing about right and wrong or good and bad. We were taught to do whatever it takes NOT to be hurt by our abusive parents and when they or any other authority was not looking - DO WHATEVER THE HELL WE FELT LIKE!!!! My older brother got into crime and spend several yrs in prison for ARMED ROBBERY! We were not taught right/wrong, good/bad just avoid punishment and get away with anything! When our abusive parents were not there to SCARE us, we simply went CRAZY!!!! Our very ignorant and STUPID parents believed they had extremely well disciplined, obedient and GOOD kids - LOL, little did they know or even care just how sick and twisted THEY - NOT US - had made their 'PREFECT' kids! We looked good to their pathetic faces and turned almost pure evil when their STUPID backs were turned!!! So much for the unbelievable ignorance of corporal punishment!
To defend some of you who want to (stupidly) cling to spankings, etc. Most kids, even us, want ATTENTION (love) and will even settle for NEGATIVE attention rather than suffer NO attention at all. Neglect is the highest form of ABUSE to a child. A spanking or even a BEATING is more welcome to many kids (not me!) than to be ignored and left without attention (love) so many kids will tell you they enjoyed or were willing to tolerate a few little 'licks' rather than be ignored (unloved) by their parents. Many even equate being hit with getting "love" and long for 'hits' in adulthood (google: "spanking" and marvel at all the adults BEGGING FOR IT!!!) to satisfy their early training to put hitting and love TOGETHER as a reward. 
I have no problem with those who want to be hit or believe that hitting is LOVE so long as it's not hurting some innocent child who is not in a position to ask for or accept such VIOLENCE under the pretense that it's LOVE. If you NEED to hit your kids and tell your self the LIE that it's love (it's really self gratification) go for it - just don't let me see you do it. And if your kids are happy that being hit is genuine love, bless them. I wish them and their kids well - LOL! To each his own!


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## Runs like Dog

The older I get the more I just want to sweep all the little kids up in my arms and hug them.


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## Mom6547

magnoliagal said:


> I have 3 very well behaved children (ages 10, 8 and 5). I've never hit them and never plan to. It takes more work and creativity to discipline without spanking but it can be done.


Not really. Not if you use investment discipline. As the kids grow, you wind up using LESS. This is grand.


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## turnera

Yep. One time my DH asked our daughter (about 17 at the time) why she never did anything to get grounded like all her friends seemed to do. She just shrugged and said 'Why would I do something that I know is going to land me in trouble? That's dumb'


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## jimrich

greenpearl


> I have been teaching children for nine years.
> For quite a few years, I easily got frustrated when my students didn't do well. When I was frustrated, I would raise my voice, and my voice can be very pretty scary.


I remember teachers like you. Their voice was a little frightening at first but once us kids realized they didn't mean it, we ran all over them!


> Now I realize it is the teacher's problem. She couldn't control herself and she didn't understand children very well.


Because she had FORGOTTEN her own childhood!


> When you understand that children are not adults, when you understand they can't always meet the standards you set or expected, you become more patient. You just shake your head and teach it again. Same thing with parents. A lot of parents are young, they don't know much about child's behavior, they don't understand children.
> 
> 
> 
> They would if only they could remember their own childhood and the things that worked for or against them as a child.
> 
> 
> 
> They become frustrated that their children don't meet the standards they set. They yell, they shout, they beat, it only shows that the parents don't know self-control ability!
> 
> 
> 
> Or how to relate to and HELP a child. They would if only they could put them self in their child's shoes and remember their own childhood. Our parents often told us how PERFECT they were as kids compared to how IMPERFECT we are! Somehow I always knew my parents were in DENIAL about that!
> 
> 
> 
> For kids, you tell them clearly what they can do and what they can't do, you set boundaries for them. When they are doing things which you don't approve, a harsh look and a harsh voice are enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL, I'd say you need a little more than that and if a parent doesn't know what else, they need to read books or take parenting classes or whatever to LEARN what to do! I'm glad you were NOT a "spanker"!!! :smthumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Mom6547

turnera said:


> Yep. One time my DH asked our daughter (about 17 at the time) why she never did anything to get grounded like all her friends seemed to do. She just shrugged and said 'Why would I do something that I know is going to land me in trouble? That's dumb'


Nice!


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## jimrich

I love this post and greatly respect you Syrum! :smthumbup:

Syrum


> I disagree entirely with fear based punishment for children, I also do not believe in shaming children.


In my childhood home, SHAMING was my parents other major control tool !  When we were not being terrorized we were being SHAMED right down to ZERO. Now I can see that our parents were Shame Based them selves and just did what they knew how to do - SHAME, BLAME AND BEAT!


> I think it's counter productive, and too many parents cross the line between punishment and abuse (no not all).


Just wondering... exactly what is or where is the "line" between punishment and abuse? Who knows where it is? Does the hitter know? The victim? A witness? When is a little old swat abuse? When is a belting not abuse? Has a parent crossed the "line" after 2 hits, 10 hits, 15 hits? What is the standard?


> I also think it's easier to strike children then put the effort in required for other discipline.


Easier and a lot more FUN for the hitter to strike a child!


> With my little boy, I have never ever put my hands on him in anger and frustration and I am very proud of that. He is not a perfect child, but he is for the most part very lovable and well behaved.


Kids are not supposed to be "perfect" - they are a work in progress and will never be perfect - good enough maybe, but not PERFECT. LOL, but what is "perfection"? Are adults ever "perfect"? Isn't "perfect" just whatever satisfies us or someone else? 


> I am also one who I believe is realistic about my children's behaviour, I know they are not perfect and need to be held accountable when they do something wrong. However I also feel that children are small people, and need to be treated like people and we need to understand that they have complex emotions too, they can have bad days just like us, can be sad, happy, tired, excited etc. we need to understand this when disciplining and not expect more of children then we would ourselves.


I love this post!!! :smthumbup: :smthumbup:


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## jimrich

Catherine602


> With the guidance of my therapist, I learned to put those memories in a mental file cabinet and locking them away.


I learned that memories and their associated feelings have to be vented in some safe and harmless way to discharge and hopefully end their effects and impact on me & others. I also learned that 'locking them' away just keeps them alive inside of me and they'll come popping out when least expected or wanted if not healed and discharged. 



> Sometimes I review them but that is rare now.


I review mine just to make sure the pain and force of the feelings is less or gone altogether.



> I think, dredging up traumatic events seems to injure anew, you can't forget what happened but you can decide to put away the pain with out reliving.it. once is enough.


In my experience, dredging up is all about resolution and healing. I may feel temporarily injured anew but I learned how to vent and heal the feelings so I am less and less "injured" each time. I am almost clear of the injuries now.

GREAT POST!!!! :smthumbup:


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## jimrich

Runs like Dog


> I used to wish my parents would hit me. At least it would be attention. It's one of the reasons I was so bad as a kid.


I believe that happened to my brother. I was "well behaved" out of fear of our dad but my brother didn't seem that afraid of him so my bro took more risks and also was BEATEN more! I guess my bro preferred pain & humiliation over indifference & neglect! I was happy with NEGLECT! 



> Has anyone ever gone to Freudian analysis? It's frickin weird. You sit in a room with an analyst who says NOTHING. Not a word. For the whole 55 minute hour. Now imagine if that was your childhood.


LOL, that's why I like support groups - there is some kind of feedback even if they discourage cross-talk. Just hearing other's stories and solutions is beneficial, IMO!


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## Mom6547

jimrich said:


> GREAT POST!!!! :smthumbup:


Jim, I am curious as heck to read what you are writing. But the quote fail makes it nearly impossible. I wonder if others are having the same issue. 

This forum has built in quoting. When you click the quote button you will see something like 



jimrich said:


> SOme text by jimrich...


To quote inline, just add "[/quote]" after whatever you are quoting and then "


> " again before the start of the next quoted text. If you have any exposure to html, it is similar to "<P> </P>" structure, but obviously we cannot use html in a web forum!
> 
> Thought you would want to know.


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## incognitoman

> Jim, I am curious as heck to read what you are writing. But the quote fail makes it nearly impossible. I wonder if others are having the same issue.


:lol::iagree:


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## jimrich

atruckersgirl


> I spank my children in certain, limited circumstances. For example, if they were going to touch a hot stove (when they were littler), I might spank because I know a few swats to their bottom will hurt much less than a third degree burn to their hand, and I also know they will remember that I spanked them when they went to touch the stove and therefore will not touch it again.


LOL, until you are not around to hurt & stop them! Then they touch the stove just to see what all the fuss was about! I wonder if there isn't a better & less frightening way to teach a kid something besides making your kids afraid of you - instead of the stove?


> I do, however, strongly feel that the only appropriate spanking is one done with a hand only: no spoons, belts, wooden paddles, etc.


LOL, my dad's 'hand' was at least as dangerous as any belt, spoon or whatever!


> I also do not believe it should leave lasting marks. A red butt immediately after, ok.


Hmmm I wonder what a Doctor might say about that?


> A red butt an hour later, no. A bruise the next day or a week later, no way. I also feel it should not be done for every little infraction, either.


LOL, how about NOT AT ALL!


> Done that way, not only is it not an appropriate way to punish, but I think eventually the child becomes "numb" to it...they no longer see it as "Mom really wants to get a point across because this is serious so I better learn from it!" and ends up just being as "oh, Mom's gonna beat my ass again...ok, let's get it done."


For me it was "Mom really wants to get her point across because SHE is serious so I better WATCH OUT FOR HER!" It never had anything to do with my behavior but all about her behavior!


> I also believe it needs to be limited to the butt. No face slaps, punching, pushing, arm yanking, stuff like that.


LOL, Like the butt is a way better target than anything else? When your purpose is to INFLICT PAIN, why be limited to just the butt?


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## turnera

Why were you terrified of him? Did he turn into a mean monster when he did it, or did he calmly and logically turn you over his knee? Mind did the latter, and I have to say I couldn't blame him - I deserved it. But I never did anything to deserve it again. Spanking worked.

Look, I get that you had an abusive childhood. But not all children who get spanked did. I spanked my daughter once, on vacation, because she was being a brat and not going out to the lessons we had paid for. She KNEW it, she knew she'd get in trouble, and she simply didn't want to go, so she decided to have a power struggle. She was 10, I think; she'll be 21 in September. Since then, I grounded her ONCE, because she left a place she was supposed to be at (safety issue). Aside from that, she simply decided there was no point doing things that had punishments attached; to her, it was illogical to do so. 

Terrified of me? I can't get her to shut up! She tells everyone I'm her best friend. She calls me every single day, at work, and I have to tell her after 30 or 60 minutes that I have to get off the phone and get some work done! She tells me that her friends don't understand why she wants to do things with her parents, and if they can't get it, that's their problem.

I'm sorry you had a bad time of it, but it sounds like you'd be better off getting counseling help than trying to convince everyone else of your logic. I wish you well.


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## bunnybear

I think it's not ok. I respect other parents that spank their kids as a form of discipline as long as it's not in a violent way ie. bleeding/bruising. I would never wanna spank my kids though as I have other options to discipline them and so far it works


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## jimrich

unbelievable said:


> My teenage son threatened to call 911 once. I told him to go ahead but to tell them to send the crime scene truck. He wisely reconsidered.


LOL, they didn't have 911 when I was a kid but I sure would have used it A LOT! :rofl:
Your kids only call 911 because you have somehow FAILED them along the way! 

I thank god that todays kids have at least some kind of protection and help that we never had!


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## jimrich

unbelievable


> I honestly think that if you teach them the rules of the game early (that you're in charge and they aren't)


Well I always knew they were in charge but they never taught me to know when I needed to be in charge, how to use my own intelligence, how to make a decision without dreadful fear of them, how to be independent and accountable, and many other times when they weren't around to think for me, scare me and keep me from being appropriately in charge!


> It usually turns out that the figure(s) posing as parents thought it was ok or cute to let their little 2-3 year old call the shots and it wasn't so cute at age 8.


Why didn't the parents KNOW the difference? Did you ever tell the parents to get an education - in parenting? :scratchhead: 


> As far as 911 threats, there's no law against disciplining one's child. In Tennessee (and probably most other states) it's not illegal to spank one.


I'm sorry to hear that!


> You can't be ridiculous about it but the courts understand the difference between discipline and abuse.


LOL I'd like to read about the court's "understanding"!


> Your kid slams his bedroom door, take it off it's hinges. Sticks earphones in and turns up his music while you're talking to him, he loses his Ipod.


Then you need to figure out where you are going wrong and HELP your kid do better!


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## Runs like Dog

jimrich said:


> Has anyone ever gone to Freudian analysis? It's frickin weird. You sit in a room with an analyst who says NOTHING. Not a word. For the whole 55 minute hour. Now imagine if that was your childhood.


Yes, I used a woman who was a Freudian. She wore knee length skirts, no stockings and did not shave her legs. I thought it was bunk.


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## jimrich

> Jim, I am curious as heck to read what you are writing. But the quote fail makes it nearly impossible.


Mom: thanks for the tip. I wondered how you were doing it. 



> I wonder if others are having the same issue.


Hmmmmmm? :scratchhead: 



> To quote inline, just add "/quote" after whatever you are quoting and then "quote" again before the start of the next quoted text. If you have any exposure to html, it is similar to "<P> </P>" structure, but obviously we cannot use html in a web forum!
> Thought you would want to know.


 I will use that!  I really enjoy both the depth and information in your posts and responses! :smthumbup:


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## jimrich

Mrs.G


> I agree. Children are far too empowered.


LOL, in my day, kids had NO power; now they have TOO MUCH power:smthumbup:....LOL, where will it all end? :scratchhead:


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## jimrich

turnera said:


> Why were you terrified of him? Did he turn into a mean monster when he did it, or did he calmly and logically turn you over his knee? Mind did the latter, and I have to say I couldn't blame him - I deserved it. But I never did anything to deserve it again. Spanking worked.
> 
> Look, I get that you had an abusive childhood. But not all children who get spanked did. I spanked my daughter once, on vacation, because she was being a brat and not going out to the lessons we had paid for. She KNEW it, she knew she'd get in trouble, and she simply didn't want to go, so she decided to have a power struggle. She was 10, I think; she'll be 21 in September. Since then, I grounded her ONCE, because she left a place she was supposed to be at (safety issue). Aside from that, she simply decided there was no point doing things that had punishments attached; to her, it was illogical to do so.
> 
> Terrified of me? I can't get her to shut up! She tells everyone I'm her best friend. She calls me every single day, at work, and I have to tell her after 30 or 60 minutes that I have to get off the phone and get some work done! She tells me that her friends don't understand why she wants to do things with her parents, and if they can't get it, that's their problem.
> 
> I'm sorry you had a bad time of it, but it sounds like you'd be better off getting counseling help than trying to convince everyone else of your logic. I wish you well.


Tunera:


> it sounds like you'd be better off getting counseling help than trying to convince everyone else of your logic.


Counseling? help? = why???
I am sure nothing I write in here will ever convince you of my "logic" [whatever that is] and you are not going to convince me of yours, BUT... 
our shared opinions just might help some of those who come here to find answers and/or hope. I wish you well and thanks for sharing.


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## jimrich

bunnybear


> think it's not ok. I would never wanna spank my kids though as I have other options to discipline them and so far it works


Bunny, please share some of your "options to discipline" and describe for us exactly what you mean by "it works".


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## turnera

jimrich said:


> Tunera:
> 
> Counseling? help? = why???
> I am sure nothing I write in here will ever convince you of my "logic" [whatever that is] and you are not going to convince me of yours, BUT...
> our shared opinions just might help some of those who come here to find answers and/or hope. I wish you well and thanks for sharing.


 Why? Because it's obvious in what you post that you had horrific parents who brutalized you. You don't just get over that without good therapy. And you seem to be on a mission to convince every poster that spanking is wrong, and yet many posters here are telling that spanking was quite appropriate and even helpful.


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## Mrs.G

turnera said:


> Why? Because it's obvious in what you post that you had horrific parents who brutalized you. You don't just get over that without good therapy. And you seem to be on a mission to convince every poster that spanking is wrong, and yet many posters here are telling that spanking was quite appropriate and even helpful.


:iagree::iagree: I tried to get over it without therapy. I held in all of my anger and sadness at being abused. It worked, until someone very close to me died. I began to cut myself and attempt suicide. I wouldn't have dreamt about going to my parents with my internal pain; I was too scared of them. The doctors told me that I had to tell my parents how I really felt or else I would never get better. A psychiatric nurse helped me get out of my parents home, when she saw that the way my mother treated me was causing the depression. 

Spanking and abuse are not the same. Calming giving some smacks on the bum is fine and sometimes needed. Jim, you and I were not "spanked". We were abused; there is a big difference. Swats on the butt for continued misbehaviour after warnings is *discipline*. 

_Abuse _is giving a concussion because your daughter did not wash the dishes fast enough...kicking your child because they did not locate an item or strangling your kid because they lied. It is also not allowing your children to experience a normal life; I was not allowed to visit my friends, have sleepovers or go to dances.My mother listened in on any call I made and harassed my friends for information. She chased boys away by telling them bad things about me or insulting them. My curfew was 12:30 until I was,but my brothers had none. Abuse is also treating the child unfairly because of their gender; daughters should not be made to slave after the males in their families. It sends the wrong message. With abuse, the punishment is often too harsh for the crime and it is about scaring the child, rather than correcting them. 

I am glad that I have the ability to be rational about spanking, even though I was beaten the way prisoners are. :smthumbup: 

No kids for me either; I am too shell shocked. I wrote in my journal today that I feel like a war vet; all damaged and torn up inside from being sexually, physically and emotionally abused. I have compassion for my mother, but I still stay away because I need to protect myself from dangerous demons who seek to destroy my happiness.


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## Runs like Dog

Kudos to jimrich for recognizing the struggle not to become the abusive monster he was pretty much programmed to mature into. Most little kids who are steadily viciously abused turn out to beat the hell out of their own, turn to drugs, stripping, hooking, violent crime or homicide. I've met people who've killed their own parents for less.


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## Mrs.G

jimrich said:


> greenpearl
> I remember teachers like you. Their voice was a little frightening at first but once us kids realized they didn't mean it, we ran all over them!
> 
> Because she had FORGOTTEN her own childhood!
> 
> 
> 
> When you understand that children are not adults, when you understand they can't always meet the standards you set or expected, you become more patient. You just shake your head and teach it again. Same thing with parents. A lot of parents are young, they don't know much about child's behavior, they don't understand children.
> 
> 
> 
> They would if only they could remember their own childhood and the things that worked for or against them as a child.
> 
> Or how to relate to and HELP a child. They would if only they could put them self in their child's shoes and remember their own childhood. Our parents often told us how PERFECT they were as kids compared to how IMPERFECT we are! Somehow I always knew my parents were in DENIAL about that!
> 
> LOL, I'd say you need a little more than that and if a parent doesn't know what else, they need to read books or take parenting classes or whatever to LEARN what to do! I'm glad you were NOT a "spanker"!!! :smthumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, Jim...how does a non parent know anything about raising kids? :rofl::rofl: You cannot know what that is like until you do it yourself. A lot of parents do very well with their kids, despite not reading books or going to a parenting course. *Parents are not always right, but non parents don't have a CLUE. * I have a lot of respect for those that choose the most thankless job in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Mrs.G

Runs like Dog said:


> Kudos to jimrich for recognizing the struggle not to become the abusive monster he was pretty much programmed to mature into. *Most little kids who are steadily viciously abused turn out to beat the hell out of their own,* turn to drugs, stripping, hooking, violent crime or homicide. I've met people who've killed their own parents for less.


That is reason I will remain childfree. A bad temper, an abusive childhood and parenthood do NOT mix. 

I have struggled with being a pothead and I admit that the main thing pot does for me is help me forget. It's very seductive. 

Stripping and hooking? Eh....no thanks. I went through a promiscuous phase, because I wanted to gain more experience after being sheltered too much. I had my first passionate kiss at 17, while most of my peers had at least 3 sexual partners by that time. 

Remember the Menendez brothers? I couldn't read the details of that case until I was 25, because I understood their rage a bit too much.


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## Mom6547

Mrs.G said:


> Spanking and abuse are not the same. Calming giving some smacks on the bum is fine and sometimes needed. Jim, you and I were not "spanked". We were abused; there is a big difference. Swats on the butt for continued misbehaviour after warnings is *discipline*.
> 
> 
> The problem I have with the spanking is abuse thing is that it distracts the conversation from where is should be... what is GOOD discipline. What is effective, teaches the right lessons, does the most for the kid. A punishment system, whether it is spanking or not, is not the best. And why would anyone seek to do anything but the best for their children?


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## turnera

Because some people are lazy and just look at kids as possessions, and not a responsibility...

DD20 and I had a long talk last night about the financial system, and she was saying why can't all the banks just help out small businesses? I said, yeah, it would be great, but a bank's JOB is to make money for the bank's owners, and NOT to be a community supporter. If they can do both, great, but you can't MAKE them care. Just like you can't make some people care how their kids turn out.


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