# Need a Place to Process



## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

In our mid-late 40’s
Married 25 years.
Kids are out of the house, except our homebody teen girl.
I had an EA that fully ended 6 years ago. (No contact)

So, FF to now. 
We have been doing well. Little upsets here and there but overall solid. Lots of growth.

But I am really not happy with our sex life.

I don’t know exactly why except I feel that there is a lot of weight put on it to make him feel manly and confident instead of him coming to me as manly and confident to have sex.

He puts a lot of the impetus on me, which I will fully admit that I do like him to ask me and talk to me about what he wants or what I want.

I’m a planner and he’s spontaneous.
I’m a talker and he’s a toucher.

We’ve gotten really good at communicating about mostly everything but on this area i feel like it’s off limits for me to have any thing even slightly corrective to say.

I see myself as really open and willing but I also see myself putting him through a lot of hoops sometimes.
It’s stuff that I want him to just do without being told or reminded. (Self care stuff) If he’d remember this stuff and didn’t make me have to remind him I wouldn’t seem so repetitive. It feels like mothering which is a real turn off.

His sense of masculinity seems to come solely from our sex.
He will sometimes afterward say something like, ‘it didn’t really seem like you were into it.’
But not in a way like, was that not fun for you? But in a way that if I wasn’t then he is failing.

The last time he did that I had been having a fantastic time and was just gutted afterwards when he said that like he was so disappointed.

He seems to take pride in how many orgasms I have. I have to work to convince him that sometimes having just one amazing one is totally awesome.

I feel that even though he is a very wonderful lover technically speaking...he is actually out of tune with my emotions during sex.

He also seems very out of touch with his own body. He forgets to eat unless he is starving, and he forgets to take his daily medication unless he’s in pain.
He doesn’t plan ahead for eventualities which then end up feeling like my burden to carry.

I mention this because he doesn’t always know when he wants sex. 
(I mean anytime, all the time, right?)
But I when he is feeling a physical or emotional need for sex he still waits for me to show him a sign of interest.
The only way I know this is because he will suddenly and without warning become very angry and upset with how I haven’t been touching him enough or wanting sex enough.

But he never said anything to me about HIS need.

And I’m not talking about months, if we go a week without sex I miss it.

(We’ve had times once or twice a year where a bunch of crazy stuff has been going on (like 3 funerals this spring) and our time together gets thwarted plus I’ll start my period on the end or get sick so that would put it to 2 weeks...but that is the exception.)

He doesn’t seem to believe that if he just asked for a quickie I would do it just for him. I have told him that. He’d rather wait until I have time and libido for a longer session.
That’s cool. I get that, but I can’t trust that he isn’t going to forget that he was the one who chose to wait and get all bent out of shape because I’m ‘not into him’ enough.

I realize that he had a huge blow to his confidence. He’s reminded me of that many times.
But what do I do to help him?
At what point is it his responsibility to find his own confidence?

I do enjoy sex but lately I don’t like it. 

It feels like I’m in a performance that he’s critiquing whether or not HE is up to par.

It’s so weird and emotionally icky.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Am I blind to something?

I’m tired of feeling so emotionally entangled with his self-care.

Do I just sound like a jerk?
I’ve definitely been lambasted on TAM before for my POV but it usually helps me so here goes....please be kind.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@tigerlily99 have you been to marriage counseling ? If not, I think it's time to find one who also doubles as a sex therapist. These are all issues beyond the pay grade of any of us amateurs.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Lila said:


> These are all issues beyond the pay grade of any of us amateurs.




That made me laugh! 
And also look at the idea that of course our marriage is worth more than free. Thank you for the advice. 

What I’m hoping for in this thread is to narrow down what my problems are and come to a solid place of understanding why I want help because I will need to come up with a good reason for my H to agree to do more work on our marriage.

We are so completely tired of dealing with layers of stuff!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

tigerlily99 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > These are all issues beyond the pay grade of any of us amateurs.
> ...


You've outlined your problems here pretty clearly. Could you read this to him? 

Like I said, take this to a professional. An independent and unbiased third party that will work with you to open up dialogue. Your issues will not sound like an attack coming from a professional.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

> His sense of masculinity seems to come solely from our sex.
> He will sometimes afterward say something like, ‘it didn’t really seem like you were into it.’
> But not in a way like, was that not fun for you? But in a way that if I wasn’t then he is failing.
> 
> The last time he did that I had been having a fantastic time and was just gutted afterwards when he said that like he was so disappointed.


Look, I've never been cheated on, but an affair by my wife would really **** with my head. Even if she claimed it was an emotional affair only ( like that's nothing ), all that would go through my head is, "Why did she need another man? Am I not man enough? <Insert thoughts that might trigger people on here that we'll not mention>.

No surprise that he is insecure about the physical relations between the two of you.

Just my two cents.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Welcome tiger lily! I’m sure if you stick around for a minute, you will get a lot of various responses.

In the meantime, I would invite you to read one of the many threads where a lot of us are bantering about men and women and sex drive. There’s one called “another thread about women’s drive in LTR’s”.

By reading these, you will see what many men say about their sex lives and that would be helpful to you I’m sure.

I’m going to refrain from bashing on your H for now and get more info, but my gut reaction is to want to upside his head. So he’s even bringing mommy emotions out of a stranger on the internet, ha ha! That’s not good or sexy.

Question: was the sex sexier and more balanced at first? (And if you read the thread I pointed you to above you may have a different answer afterwards).


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

AandM said:


> No surprise that he is insecure about the physical relations between the two of you.
> 
> 
> 
> Just my two cents.



Yes exactly. 
I have been aware of this which is why I have given him time to heal. We have also done a lot of work on our marriage and me on my own issues.

My desire is how to encourage him to work on his own issues.
Even if it is all my fault.

I can’t fix it for him.
Can I?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

tigerlily99 said:


> Yes exactly.
> I have been aware of this which is why I have given him time to heal. We have also done a lot of work on our marriage and me on my own issues.
> 
> My desire is how to encourage him to work on his own issues.
> ...


No, but maybe it's gonna be like this now. Affairs change people, you don't get over them you learn to live with them. Which is not to say that you shouldn't communicate and try to work on these things. Reading your post though it seems like maybe in some ways your styles are just different, then through in the aftermath of an affair and that can amplify everything. 

This is just me but I also don't get why every sexual interaction has to be the best you ever had or great for both of you. I mean is every conversation you have like that? What in life works like that? Why would sex be any different. There are times when you have great sex and times when you have nice sex, time when you have fast sex. Just like there are times you go out and have great times, and times that are just a quick bite. However when I read on here it just seems like many people's sex life are not organic at all. 

I agree with the marriage counseling idea though. 

One more thing I will add, if you don't want to feel like his mother, don't mother him. He is a grown adult. I have just seen this too much, when you treat your spouse like a child they eventually become entitled like a child. It's a dynamic that just seems to play out. Let him fail, I mean not if it's going to kill him or affect his health but if there are consequences so be it. Maybe he will learn from that.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OP
Are you able to talk to him? Let him know (nicely) what you want and don't want. 

As far as sex, maybe you can tell him that for a day or for a week, you fantasize about doing whatever he wants without his asking. That that is what *you* want. Make him feel he has permission. 

A lot of men have had it deeply ingrained in them that sex is somehow vaguely abusive to women and that all women want lots of lead in, and to never every pressure women for sex. Its easy for that to be interpreted as never asking women for sex .


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

AandM said:


> Look, I've never been cheated on, but an affair by my wife would really **** with my head. Even if she claimed it was an emotional affair only ( like that's nothing ), all that would go through my head is, "Why did she need another man? Am I not man enough? <Insert thoughts that might trigger people on here that we'll not mention>.
> 
> No surprise that he is insecure about the physical relations between the two of you.
> 
> Just my two cents.


This! I would think that your affair has really shaken his confidence, trust and even feelings toward you. You think that by saying it was an EA (no kissing, touching of any kind), it would be less impactful? Do not underplay the impact of you wanting another man on him.




tigerlily99 said:


> Yes exactly.
> I have been aware of this which is why I have given him time to heal. We have also done a lot of work on our marriage and me on my own issues.
> 
> My desire is how to encourage him to work on his own issues.
> ...



You are going to have to pretty much damn well try. You can help fix it for him by first understanding that this might be because of what you did but more importantly, how it was handled afterwards.

Can you say more about your affair (notice, that I have dropped the E and am calling it what it was)? What happened ? How did it start ? How long ago ? How long did it last ? How did it end ? Did he discover it and if so, how ? What did you do for him just after ? Why did he stay and not bail out then ?

The answers to these questions may hold the key to solving some of your problems now.

Your posts reek of "me me me" without any real attempt to empathise with your husband.


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## Dutchman1 (Mar 30, 2018)

tigerlily99,

After everything that has happened since your first post on 11-21-2015, I'm afraid you still don't understand.
Understand me well, this is not an attack but more a sum of what you wrote yourself.

Several forum members write that, at least in your writing, you have little empathy for your husband. 
It is also constant: me, me, me.
In your thread: Hubby is mad at me, on page 7 you write that you were in the starting blocks to make your affair physical.
You write that your spouse knows this.

You write that you realize what kind of a hole you have cut in his heart. (In 2015)
And what do you do now: You do it again?

So grateful that he stood by you and put his own pain aside:
And what do you do now: You do it again?
(your post 94 from Hubby is mad)

As if it is never enough, never satisfied, always rebelling against your own vows, promises and agreements.
You must also see that the novelty jitters and honeymoon pass by, throw off your blinkers.

You have allowed yourself this tickle twice, your spouse could keep his pants closed.
For him you were and will always be his highschool sweatheart.

You do not understand how insecure your spouse is partly because of you.
So insecure that he enjoys you being home even though he sleeps on the couch after work.
And what do you do now: You do it again?

Your response as I read it is:

I have been aware of this which is why I have given him time to heal.

YOU have given him time to heal ??

What a divine grace. ( sarc)

I fear that nothing will be left of your husband in the long run. 
He won't say it but you can destroy a person like that.
Your reaction will probably be that you are not aware of any harm.

You write that you like to continue conversations with others that have depth, 
unfortunately this does not appear from your writing.

Is this a warning, perhaps a plan to prepare your spouse that he should not be surprised that you are cheating again 
or starting an affair?

Listen, the honeymoon feeling is really not coming back, 
But you can still have a satisfied sexual bond, for you two.
Please understand that your cheating is partly the cause of the current situation.
Your spouse has created a relationship with this and in which he can maintain himself as a man.

You cannot heal it nor can you change it, even with 1000 x IC.
This is what you two have created.

Cheating in a marriage in which one wedded feels happy creates a unbalance.
Your spouse has forgiven, but unfortunately it can never be forgotten.

I have one sugesstion for you; 

If all you have written is true, and I think it is; Let your IC read what you have written here.
My guess is that your IC will be able to guide you, help you so you both can benefit .

I wish you wisdom and a long and happy life in the future.

Dutchman1

No one can ever take your dignity from you, you can only give it away. © Dutchman1 2015


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Plenty of "blame" on both sides. Fixing relationships is not about assigning blame. It is about overcoming obstacles.

Her H is very insecure. He needs to deal with that. Maybe he needs to hit the gym. Maybe he needs to rock it at work. But he needs to do something to build up his self-confidence.

TL needs to be more open and honest. Even if it hurts her H. She needs to explain what he could do (if anything) to make sex better for her. And she needs to communicate @sokillme's point that not every sex session is going to be fireworks and a 21 gun salute. It will be difficult for her to convince her H that she is OK with some sessions being only "meh". Probably more effective to convince him that you might not reach orgasm every time, but you really like getting him off if you indeed feel that way). If you can convince him that getting him off helps you feel powerful, sexy and good at being his wife, you might get him to open his mind that quickies can be "good" for you too.

I agree that professional help would be good to avoid the "I don't believe you really feel that way" based on not believing that anyone actually feels that way. The counsellor can reaffirm that yes, many people actually do feel that way.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

tigerlily99 said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
> Am I blind to something?.


A LOT of what you are saying sounds very similar to conversations my wife and I have. My wife can have ten or more orgasms in a row and we both finish covered in sweat. BUT it took me a LONG time to understand that she is just as happy with just one or sometimes none at all. What is important for my wife is that she feels that I desire her, and very strongly so. She asks that when I initiate, that I do so from a place that my desire levels are a sure thing and that I am able to enjoy her pleasing me regardless of if she responds or not. Sometimes in the heat of the moment, she will let me know that she wants me to focus on her, and I know to that I need to allow her be the one to ask for that as opposed to me insisting on it. 

Much like you, my wife enjoys seeing us work together to take care of our health in regards to diet an exercise. We have found certain types of meals we enjoy together and also play sports together as a family in the evenings. My advice on that topic would be to constantly keep trying new things until you find something that you enjoy TOGETHER that has a positive impact on your health and wellbeing. 

With regards to sex and his ego being tied to your orgasm, try to re-associate that with his ability to share HIS pleasure of being with you and that you will let him know when to just be selfish and enjoy a one-sided moment in the event you just want to make him happy. Likewise let him know that sometimes you need space to enjoy wanting things for yourself as opposed to getting them before you have had the chance to enjoy wanting them. 

So if the two of you have sex and you don't want to feel pressured to perform and as a result you are OK with your husband just enjoying himself... afterwards when he asks if you enjoyed that, be completely honest and say that it means a lot that he did not pressure you to perform orgasmically and that is what you need right now to be able to enjoy sex again. If you enjoy feeling him aroused, do tell him that and perhaps you need more of that. Then when you are in the mood to respond, let him know that you will try not to be shy about it! That he should appreciate 

Hope that helps. I often feel that most people here do not understand my point of view.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

sokillme said:


> No, but maybe it's gonna be like this now. Affairs change people, you don't get over them you learn to live with them. Which is not to say that you shouldn't communicate and try to work on these things. Reading your post though it seems like maybe in some ways your styles are just different, then through in the aftermath of an affair and that can amplify everything.
> 
> This is just me but I also don't get why every sexual interaction has to be the best you ever had or great for both of you. I mean is every conversation you have like that? What in life works like that? Why would sex be any different. There are times when you have great sex and times when you have nice sex, time when you have fast sex. Just like there are times you go out and have great times, and times that are just a quick bite. However when I read on here it just seems like many people's sex life are not organic at all.
> 
> ...


 @sokillme what you said in your first paragraph about affairs changing people is spot on with what I’m wondering, how much of this is permanent change. But also am I allowed to still require things for me own happiness or did I blow that all when I hurt him.

I appreciate you saying that communication should still happen...and for noticing and pointing out that our styles are very different. So true!
The affair certainly has amplified those differences.

As for sexual interactions having to always be amazing, did I give the impression I was asking for that? 
Or were you picking up on my sense that my H wants that?

Either way, the bottom line is I agree with you, I want there to be real life sexual encounters, sometimes great, sometimes quick, sometimes lovey, sometimes intense....whatever. And not critiqued by either of us. Just reporting to each other what we experience in a light hearted observational way. 

And yes, so true, I need to stop acting like a ‘mother’ and let him flounder if he needs to...which usually means get mad. And that is why I don’t because I’m too sensitive to anyone being upset with me. (It’s a wonder I keep posting here. Haha)
But the reminder that’s it’s within MY power to just stop, is really a good one. Thank you.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Welcome tiger lily! I’m sure if you stick around for a minute, you will get a lot of various responses.
> 
> In the meantime, I would invite you to read one of the many threads where a lot of us are bantering about men and women and sex drive. There’s one called “another thread about women’s drive in LTR’s”.
> 
> ...



@faithfulwife thank you for your welcome and response.
I have been reading that very thread, actually, and it’s partly what prompted me to start this one.

I wanted to hear people’s thoughts on my specific situation.

To answer your question,”was the sex sexier and more balanced at first?”
(Im not sure I understand why the answer would be different after reading the thread, but maybe I missed some things) 

No actually I was very shut down sexually in the first 15 years of our marriage. He always initiated and I was VERY responsive desire I had no desire (that I was aware of at the time) unless it was elicited from me by him.

The last 10 have been really fun and good for us (sexually speaking) I was able to deal with some past trauma and learn that sex is not bad and that I’m not bad to actually want it without someone ‘taking it’ from me. (Submerged CSA and religious upbringing, awful combo.)

Sex has been the way that we have stayed connected and it’s kept him feeling more secure when all of the crap hit the fan with my EA (which took place coincidentally or not, at the same time I opened up the Pandora’s box of my dissociated memories.)

The problem I’ve had is that because our sex life has become sort of the holy grail of our relationship and it’s been sort of the last link to his confidence, so let’s not mess with it...it’s become kind of imprisoning for me emotionally.

That’s what I’m trying to process here. 
I’m a very emotional person. I still think I have a a kind of responsive desire, but it’s responsive to how connected I feel to him. 
Then when I feel spontaneous desire there is a safe place to express it.
I can respond to him if he’s into it and I’m not feeling it, or I can wait until I feel it and act on my feelings.

But if I’m feeling disconnected from him because of pressure to build him up emotionally first, or needing to remind him to do basic things all week, I just can’t let go and enjoy sex.

I’m not sure I’ve answered your question at all or just ended up rambling....


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

uhtred said:


> OP
> 
> As far as sex, maybe you can tell him that for a day or for a week, you fantasize about doing whatever he wants without his asking. That that is what *you* want. Make him feel he has permission.



Fabulous idea! I’m going to try this.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Dutchman1 said:


> tigerlily99,
> 
> After everything that has happened since your first post on 11-21-2015, I'm afraid you still don't understand.
> Understand me well, this is not an attack but more a sum of what you wrote yourself.
> ...



@Dutchman1

Thank you for taking the time, not just to read my post here but also to look back at my other threads.

I don’t understand what you are referring to about 

“You have allowed yourself this tickle twice, your spouse could keep his pants closed.
For him you were and will always be his highschool sweatheart.

You do not understand how insecure your spouse is partly because of you.
So insecure that he enjoys you being home even though he sleeps on the couch after work.
And what do you do now: You do it again?”

What are you referring to that I’m doing again?


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> This! I would think that your affair has really shaken his confidence, trust and even feelings toward you. You think that by saying it was an EA (no kissing, touching of any kind), it would be less impactful? Do not underplay the impact of you wanting another man on him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My affair was 6 years ago and the details are in my other threads.
I think you have commented in the past on some of those threads.
(I don’t expect you to remember I just happen to remember your screen name.) 

I’m not 100% sure why H didn’t bail. 
I only call it an EA, not to minimize it, but to identify the kind of affair it was. 
The area that I am weak is emotionally.
I desire a lot of emotional connection/affirmation and that is an area that my H could sort of just get by with the least possible amount of interaction in.

That’s what we learned after the A and he said he was willing to learn as best he could how to connect to AND communicate his emotions.

I agreed to work through my own emotional issues and get some boundaries in place so his heart could be safe with me instead of taken for granted.

And we’ve done those things and we now here.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> Plenty of "blame" on both sides. Fixing relationships is not about assigning blame. It is about overcoming obstacles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



@Holdingontoit
Thank you for your advice. 
I DO need to speak up more even if it will hurt.
I really hate upsetting him in any way.
I am still insecure in the area of people I care about being upset with me.

But I’m learning.
Forums like these help me to pull together my thoughts and my plan before the discussion 
Otherwise I tend to back down and back off and not stick to what I’m wanting,
Which makes me look wishy-washy and like I’m always changing my mind. When really I’m just wimping out and taking the blame in order to keep the peace.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

badsanta said:


> A LOT of what you are saying sounds very similar to conversations my wife and I have. My wife can have ten or more orgasms in a row and we both finish covered in sweat. BUT it took me a LONG time to understand that she is just as happy with just one or sometimes none at all. What is important for my wife is that she feels that I desire her, and very strongly so. She asks that when I initiate, that I do so from a place that my desire levels are a sure thing and that I am able to enjoy her pleasing me regardless of if she responds or not. Sometimes in the heat of the moment, she will let me know that she wants me to focus on her, and I know to that I need to allow her be the one to ask for that as opposed to me insisting on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you for your observations and input.
I often really enjoy your ideas and anecdotes from your discoveries with and about your wife.

I liked how you worded the part about being allowed the space to want something before he’s giving it. That is very key to my sexuality. I love to anticipate it and imagine it and flirt with it before it’s ever actually happening.

My H is very analytical, which is great, if only I could write a computer script for him with “if this, then that” kind of precision. He would be in seventh heaven! (For anyone who thinks this is a terrible thing to say, you don’t know my husband.)

Ive often wondered how you keep such an open and curious attitude in your own sex life, @badsanta, I think in this way you might be a little bit like my H except, as far as I know, you’re not dealing with the insecurity of your W having cheated on you. I really wish that wasn’t a part of our story. 

But it is, and from the input I’m getting here the effects of it are here to stay. So my desire is to learn to meet my H where he is and also be honest with what my needs and desires are.

It’s a tightrope to me because on one hand a lot of what he’s dealing is my fault...but if I’m not honest we will grow apart.

Balance is key.

Thank you again for your advice. I got a lot of good ideas out of that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

tigerlily99 said:


> @sokillme what you said in your first paragraph about affairs changing people is spot on with what I’m wondering, how much of this is permanent change. But also am I allowed to still require things for me own happiness or did I blow that all when I hurt him.


Let me put it to you this way, if you and that man who you were having an affair with chopped off your husbands leg below the knee. Afterwards when you saw him bleeding out in agony on the floor you suddenly understood what you did, chased the guy away went no contact. Then you bandaged his leg helped him get a prosthetic and generally helped him heal. Now lets say you used to love taking brisk walks with him, but not you can go as fast anymore. In the context of what I just wrote you tell me? This is exactly what infidelity especially if you stay married to the one who did it to you is like for most. So you are going to have to decided. That being said I personally wouldn't want someone to stay with me out of guilt. 



tigerlily99 said:


> I appreciate you saying that communication should still happen...and for noticing and pointing out that our styles are very different. So true!
> The affair certainly has amplified those differences.
> 
> As for sexual interactions having to always be amazing, did I give the impression I was asking for that?
> Or were you picking up on my sense that my H wants that?


Nope that comment was made more because I personally believe discussions about sex on here are never discussed in away the acknowledges how organic it is. It's always with the expectations of blowing your doors off sex, or porn star sex. It's rarely talked about as a form on intimacy. I don't think porn star or blow your doors off sex is very realistic in a long term relationship, occasionally yes, but if that is your only definition of what good sex is in the end most will be disappointing. 

I guess their is the rare couple that have this every time but even that is not a good strategy for sexual intimacy long term as in my mind because you are both going to get old and eventually are going to end up hurting yourself. Besides if it's always great then that just becomes normal. Again I think good sex is about intimacy, it's about closeness, and of course it's about orgasm. But I think one of those three at various times is enough assuming you are having sex regularly (say 3 times a week). Thing is lots of women need a lot of time to get to orgasm. OK well if you have to wait until you have a lot of time to be the only time you have sex that's going to be difficult with how busy everyone is today. Lots of men because of porn and just the advent of photography in general, are attracted to an unrealistic level of beauty. Again if you need that level of beauty to get horny you are going to have a hard time getting off with your wife who is an honest to goodness real women who ages and even beautiful isn't going to live up to those standards. 

This is why I rarely participate in the sex talks much on here, because I don't relate to them. I had a very small number of sex partners, have never had a one night stand nor ever will, like I said sex is about intimacy with me and always has been. It's about closeness and vulnerability, and bonding, and of course orgasm. I am sure that is very foreign if you have had a lot of sex partners. It's hard for it to be that way if this is something you have done it many people. If there is no uniqueness about it. That is also not to criticize those who have, to each his own. It's just to explain my comment. 



tigerlily99 said:


> Either way, the bottom line is I agree with you, I want there to be real life sexual encounters, sometimes great, sometimes quick, sometimes lovey, sometimes intense....whatever. And not critiqued by either of us. Just reporting to each other what we experience in a light hearted observational way.


Have you ever said that? How are you talking about this stuff? Again I hate to keep harping on this but you did have an affair so for your husband that other man is always going to be in the room with you while you have sex. It's just inevitable, even if it's just in his subconscious he is probably competing with that man every time. Unfortunately that is infidelity. Maybe try to gently ask him about this. Maybe talking about it will help him. Everything I just wrote above is why I would never try to R. Intimacy and specialness which for me is what sex is all about would be gone. I don't want to be competing for my own wife even if it's in my head. I believe it's just too hard and steals too much joy from the marriage. But your husband has been willing to deal with all of that to be with you. So again, thinking about your question in the first quote above in that context, you tell me. 



tigerlily99 said:


> And yes, so true, I need to stop acting like a ‘mother’ and let him flounder if he needs to...which usually means get mad. And that is why I don’t because I’m too sensitive to anyone being upset with me. (It’s a wonder I keep posting here. Haha)
> But the reminder that’s it’s within MY power to just stop, is really a good one. Thank you.


Finally continuing with "your happiness", there are plenty of other things in life that you don't need him for, where you can find some happiness. You need that to be a well rounded person anyway. Is it possible that looking for people to bring you happiness is what caused you to have an affair in the first place? I am not telling you you shouldn't always strive for happiness in your marriage or work to fix these issues, what I am saying is have some other things that can bring you joy so the struggle in your relationship doesn't seem desperate. If you are stronger and happier in general you will probably make clearer, stronger and healthier decisions. You can address these issues from a greater point of strength.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

@sokillme

You are right, a lot of us talk about sex like it’s just banging, it’s not special or intimate.

I do apologize for myself. I am aware that’s how it sounds. That’s not how I mean it, but I’m aware of the sound of it.

Part of this is because in the past on TAM, more than one person has come in and said they don’t agree with me when I have talked about the emotions and intimacy during sex. When I get too mushy, people start saying I’m off on a tangent they don’t understand.

So I just stick to the slap stick. I don’t know how else to do this because it’s just not something I know how to defend when someone says “well I love sex and everything you are saying but none of that weird emotional stuff is part of it for me”. I don’t even know how to respond to that.

I actually asked @Personal something about this yesterday.

Sorry for thread jack!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> @sokillme
> 
> You are right, a lot of us talk about sex like it’s just banging, it’s not special or intimate.
> 
> ...


No need to apologize, it's just that it doesn't sound to appealing to me. I mean here is how I honestly feel about that. I think it it was really just about banging and nothing else, then I think it would just be more practical to pay for it. That way there is a guarantee there is no feelings involved and you get what you pay for. Just a straight up business transaction, because this is what we are talking about transnational sex, payed in orgasm.

I think though if that is the way you feel about it then you are really losing out on the best part and no wonder it gets boring and tiresome. That also goes for all the articles that that have been linked recently. Lots and lots of people don't understand the intimacy component in sex because it has been severely undervalued if not forgotten in a highly sexual culture. But if all it is about is getting great orgasms (which I am highly for) then no wonder people lose their attractions, there are only so many positions. Orgasm, even great ones are pretty similar, so then it has to come down to the excitement of someone new. 

What is missed is the specialty, the intimacy, the dialog, the celebration of love, the vulnerability, the closeness, THAT is what gives it it's glue. 

By the way that can mean crazy kinky spontaneous sex, but being vulnerable and having someone being vulnerable enough to do that with you is also part of the glue. If that is kind of your MO and you do that with everyone it's kind of like a pickup game. Meh..

So many people have no concept of this, and that is why there is so much problems with sex in marriage. IMHO.

Besides that since when do you letting other people calling you out stop you from speaking your mind? That's disappointing. I think you would say how can you get good advice if you are not being authentic. Plus your AUTHENTIC VOICE is important on here. 

OK I also apologize for my thread jack.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > @sokillme
> ...


All good points, and that’s why I do also enjoy hearing from the people who are more physical driven and not emotional driven about sex. It’s fascinating. It’s not my experience and I don’t know how common each type of drive (physical versus emotional) is common among people. It seems there’s kind of a scale for this, a scale of its own not necessarily related to drive/desire. But I don’t know.

Hope you don’t mind our thread drift OP.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

tigerlily99 said:


> Thank you for your observations and input.
> I often really enjoy your ideas and anecdotes from your discoveries with and about your wife.
> 
> I liked how you worded the part about being allowed the space to want something before he’s giving it. That is very key to my sexuality. I love to anticipate it and imagine it and flirt with it before it’s ever actually happening.
> ...


I have not read all your other threads or posts, but I would not beat yourself up over an emotional affair. If you are open and honest with your husband about everything, your EA can serve as a model for self development. Don't compare your husband to the other person, but instead focus on your own faults that caused the EA and ask your husband to help you with those things in the event you still struggle with them. 

In the event your EA was the result of feeling isolated or needing something new, a good idea is that you might want to ask your husband to help support you in a hobby that gives you an outlet to digest your emotions, explore something positive/new and feel good about things. This works great if it is something you enjoy sharing the results with your husband. For me I have a hobby that gets me outdoors and exercising, and it also lends itself to a few paid gigs here and there to assist at local sporting events.

Anyway, regarding sex. Your husband wants to please you. Use that to your advantage! Have him read some psychology books on sexuality in long term relationships. "Passionate Marriage" by David Schnarch is a good one. Let him be the one to make some new discoveries in that book about how relationships work, and then take that as an opportunity to give him the feedback he needs to have some eureka moments of "if this, then that" of ways to help you each better love and care for one another. One interesting thing that book discusses is the dynamics of couples maintaining eye contact during orgasms. A lot of couples can't do that and it can be very revealing about one's sexuality to discuss why that is challenging. A discussion like this takes the focus off of an orgasm to ask the question if you are able to pay attention to everything going on around you when it happens. There is also a great deal of other fascinating stuff in that book. If your husband is of the analytical nature, he should enjoy it. In the meantime you can focus your efforts on making his discoveries towards improving intimacy very rewarding for him by just being open and honest about ideas you find helpful and improve your general wellbeing sexually in the marriage. 

If you go about it this way, he gets to take ownership for discovering the ideas that make your marriage better. He gets the bragging rights. That boosts his self confidence, and allows it to happen without you having to nag him about being more confident. 

If there is one thing I have learned in marriage, it is that you should not point out the faults in your partner and ask them to change. It is better to point out your own faults and ask your spouse for help. Be open that your are struggling with intimacy on an emotional level and that you would want it to be better. Ask your husband if he can help you by reading and point out anything that seems helpful for the two of you to discuss. DO NOT buy him the book or he may perceive that as an attack on his sexuality!!!! Simply suggest it, and allow him to pick a different one if he chooses to do so. If he buys a book on how to give a woman mind blowing orgasms, just be patient and hopeful that _something_ good may come of it while suggesting that he ALSO try to read more about the psychology of sexuality in addition to all that exciting technique for combining the two. 

Regards, 
Badsanta 


https://www.amazon.com/Passionate-Marriage-Intimacy-Committed-Relationships/dp/0393334279/


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

I have had a few talks with my H since I began this thread.
The first one I told him that I sensed that a lot of his need for confidence was coming from his expectations on our intimacy.
That this was making me feel confused and sad and I wanted to figure out together how to change that dynamic.

He was actually so much less challenged or upset by this than I expected.

(He has, in the past several years, been very upset with any attempts to discuss potential changes to our love life.) 

Anyway when we got a chance to talk about it. (I had emailed him the above) he admitted that he too hasn’t been feeling happy with our sex life.
That was actually a relief to me because I was afraid I was stirring up trouble in an area that he was perfectly satisfied with.

I asked him what exactly he was feeling unhappy about and he said it was mostly him.

He said hasn’t been able to shut down his mind to stress and outside issues (work stuff, our teenage girl in the next room, our dumb dog barking, etc.)
He’s also dealing with stamina issues.

So he said that he isn’t actually putting it on me to to make him feel confident through sex, he’s just feeling bummed with himself because of his shortcomings during sex. 

This was an ah ha moment for me because I think I was picking up how he was feeling about himself and thought he was feeling it toward me. 

I’m glad he was willing to talk about this with me. It made a huge difference in how I was feeling.

The input here is always helpful to gather my thoughts before a discussion like this.

I always feel instantly closer to him when he shares how he is really truly feeling.
The fact that he’s been feeling bad and trying to discern what his next plan of action is was very encouraging.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

badsanta said:


> If there is one thing I have learned in marriage, it is that you should not point out the faults in your partner and ask them to change. It is better to point out your own faults and ask your spouse for help. Be open that your are struggling with intimacy on an emotional level and that you would want it to be better. Ask your husband if he can help you by reading and point out anything that seems helpful for the two of you to discuss. DO NOT buy him the book or he may perceive that as an attack on his sexuality!!!!




Thank you for this great advice!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I am going to agree with others and say the affair has caused this. 

Men for the most part see their wife’s cheating as her choosing another man over him. That he has never been good enough for her. That she settled for him. The list goes on. 

When a husband truly loves his wife she has the ability to make him great or destroy him.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ABHale said:


> When a husband truly loves his wife she has the ability to make him great or destroy him.


Yes & no. If a man loves his wife and fails at becoming great in life, can he blame his wife for lack of support? 

@ABHale your comment here places a tremendous emotional burden on the OP. It is not her responsibility to make him great nor does she have the power to destroy him. If she does have this ability, then this is a symptom that the relationship is codependent. 

Now she does hold the power to help make the relationship great or destroy it. When two people are willing to work together on building or rebuilding a relationship, it is not about how hard you fall down as a couple, but more so about how you help each other get back up. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

tigerlily99 said:


> I have had a few talks with my H since I began this thread.
> The first one I told him that I sensed that a lot of his need for confidence was coming from his expectations on our intimacy.
> That this was making me feel confused and sad and I wanted to figure out together how to change that dynamic.
> 
> ...


You know, this actually sounds great... 

Look the stamina issue can be fixed, have him get a script for paxil and take one the morning of. (there are others that do this as well)

While I have never had issues with stamina, I have had LOTS of issues with taking TOO long to get there, hours in fact. Some woman don't want that. So I have had to go the other way, trying to get there faster, sounds great but it is not. Your partner just gets too tired, and if you don't finish then they are disappointed. 

So there are lots of ways to deal with this, you just have to deal with it...


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

badsanta said:


> It is not her responsibility to make him great nor does she have the power to destroy him. If she does have this ability, then this is a symptom that the relationship is codependent.
> 
> 
> 
> Now she does hold the power to help make the relationship great or destroy it. When two people are willing to work together on building or rebuilding a relationship, it is not about how hard you fall down as a couple, but more so about how you help each other get back up.



This 1000% is the very slight, but incredibly consequential distinction that my H and I are deliberately working on.

We both became aware of our unhealthy emotional entanglement with each other (codependency) through the EA. 

I really DO know that what I did sucks.
I know that I don’t deserve his love and devotion after breaking his heart to smithereens.
But he chose to stay and he is not a person who would ever stay out of guilt or manipulation.
He’d rather be single then stay with me for stupid reasons.
He sees something in me that is valuable to him and he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. 
As I do with him.

He chose me and I chose him we both see this next half of our marriage as a whole new relationship.

A relationship that is NOT me feeling like I have to prop him up regardless of what he is doing for himself.
A relationship where my happiness is not dependent on his actions or moods.
A relationships where we both are separate entities who come together out of choice, not because we are in servitude to the marriage.

This, unfortunately, was the opposite of what our marriage used to be.
And while I will never consider the EA a good thing, the choices we made afterward were strong and intentional.

So the thread I started is more about asking for insight from others who have learned to finesse the little frustrating areas of communication within a healthy relationship as we’re learning to NOT be so codependent.

What does health look like?
What does being separate but together look like?
What is normal in a healthy relationship? 

Stuff like that. 

In this case specifically, what does a healthy sex life look like emotionally? Of course it’ll be different for different people.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

tigerlily99 said:


> What does health look like?


A psychology book might suggest the concept of differentiation. This is the ability to be very close while at the same time maintaining two very independent personalities. Together is better than apart, but being apart is still enjoyable and sometimes necessary. 

I personally would work with your husband on the idea of how each of you can find ways to enjoy and support each other's personal space within the marriage. 



> What does being separate but together look like?


That gets into the above but takes it a step further in which when you spend time apart, it is something that serves to bring you back together. One book I read uses a reference of a hug as an example. If a couple hugs with their feet standing right on top of one another, it can be out of balance and there is an urge to push away. If a couple stands apart and then leans towards each other to hug, the distance pushes them together and the hug serve to help them keep standing up as opposed to falling down. 

So how does that work in real life? Imagine enjoying some personal space doing something you love to do. Something great happens and then...(wait for it)... you want to run to your husband and share that with him. Same for your husband. Imagine after spending time apart that the two of you can't wait to catch up and share everything with each other that happened while you were apart. 




> What is normal in a healthy relationship?
> 
> Stuff like that.


That is for you and your husband to decide. Generally speaking the earmarks of a healthy relationship are those that embrace failure with a sense of humor, show gratitude for discussing difficult topics and being vulnerable, and view each others mistakes as an opportunity to learn and grow. 




> In this case specifically, what does a healthy sex life look like emotionally? Of course it’ll be different for different people.


I have had my own struggles with intimacy in my own marriage so I probably do not serve as a model. What is most important to me in this regard is that my wife and I know where our problems are and we work together to help each other as opposed to second guessing ourselves and hurting each other. We each have a list of things we need from each other in order for things to be mutually pleasurable. Communicating those things and finding areas where things naturally fit together is where it always seems to be challenging yet the most rewarding.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> Plenty of "blame" on both sides. Fixing relationships is not about assigning blame. It is about overcoming obstacles.
> 
> Her H is very insecure. He needs to deal with that. Maybe he needs to hit the gym. Maybe he needs to rock it at work. But he needs to do something to build up his self-confidence.
> 
> ...


The bolded


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

badsanta said:


> Yes & no. If a man loves his wife and fails at becoming great in life, can he blame his wife for lack of support?
> 
> @ABHale your comment here places a tremendous emotional burden on the OP. It is not her responsibility to make him great nor does she have the power to destroy him. If she does have this ability, then this is a symptom that the relationship is codependent.
> 
> ...


In regards to being faithful or not Badsanta. 

Yes a man will work his ass off to support a loving and faithful wife. 

Just look at how it destroys a man when she is not. 

Not saying that a wife has to work at it. All it takes is supporting one another for both to thrive.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

tigerlily99 said:


> This 1000% is the very slight, but incredibly consequential distinction that my H and I are deliberately working on.
> 
> We both became aware of our unhealthy emotional entanglement with each other (codependency) through the EA.
> 
> ...


Ok, I understand where you are coming from. 

Are you 100% sure he is being honest with you about his feelings and what he is thinking in regards to his stamina issue? 

I know for a fact that I have resentment issues with my wife for things that have gone on over the years. They will hit me out of the blue and that puts a end to anything going on intimately at the time. 

Could his problem be the same thing?

Hope the two of you work it out TL.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

tigerlily99 said:


> In this case specifically, what does a healthy sex life look like emotionally? Of course it’ll be different for different people.


For us it is being conscious about each other and understanding that we are different. Recognizing our differences and doing the best
we can to validate each other in them. I do not expect her to become like me and she doesn't expect me to become like her. The effort
we put into giving that to each other is true validation in itself.


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