# The silent treatment



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Ok, so since yesterday, my H has been giving me the silent treatment. Not like he won't say a word to me, but if I ask him something, he gives short one word answers. I came home from work and he was in a mood. I asked him how his day was, and he said 'terrible'. I tried to ask him more about it and he just blew me off. He walks around sulking and being very quiet. He barely touched my back when I tried to give him a hug before he left for work and just said 'see ya'. I don't think this is all just work related stress because usually if it's that, he'll talk about it.

So...I'm not good at this silent treatment crap. I never know what I did wrong to cause it, if anything. Usually once he gets over it he never tells me what it was about. Do I press him to talk to me? Do I just ignore it and pretend everything is normal and wait for him to snap out if it or talk to me? If I ignore it, it usually prolongs the silent treatment, because I think he does it to get attention. But when I give him the attention, he still won't tell me what's wrong. 

Ugh!!! Any advice?


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## MissMe (Feb 26, 2013)

Just suddenly he goes silent on you? Chances are you did nothing to cause it, perhaps he has a mood disorder?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> Ok, so since yesterday, my H has been giving me the silent treatment. Not like he won't say a word to me, but if I ask him something, he gives short one word answers. I came home from work and he was in a mood. I asked him how his day was, and he said 'terrible'. I tried to ask him more about it and he just blew me off. He walks around sulking and being very quiet. He barely touched my back when I tried to give him a hug before he left for work and just said 'see ya'. I don't think this is all just work related stress because usually if it's that, he'll talk about it.
> 
> So...I'm not good at this silent treatment crap. I never know what I did wrong to cause it, if anything. Usually once he gets over it he never tells me what it was about. Do I press him to talk to me? Do I just ignore it and pretend everything is normal and wait for him to snap out if it or talk to me? If I ignore it, it usually prolongs the silent treatment, because I think he does it to get attention. But when I give him the attention, he still won't tell me what's wrong.
> 
> Ugh!!! Any advice?



ARGH!!!! Tell him to grow the eff up! Silent treatment is so immature and manipulative. When Mr. Pink pouts, I leave the house and ignore him altogether! If he can't find his balls enough to speak up, I'm not chasing his ass around begging for crumbs so I can deal with whatever bug crawled up there!

I take it from your post you have been in the habit of falling victim to his passive manipulations in the past. You therefore have rewarded and reinforced his propensity to do this.

Tell him straight up... You have been sulking and pouting, giving every indication that something is bothering you. I have asked and you have not answered. Either come out with it or knock it off entirely! Then you wait silently. If he still plays the pouting game, then tell him he can sleep on the couch until he's gotten a grip on what ails him.

Boundaries Waking Up, Boundaires! Don't be manipulated.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

He does have Bipolar 2. Historically when this happens it almost always comes back to something I did. Sometimes I never find out. Even if its not about me, it still isn't right for him to carry on like that and make me play guessing games.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Okay so the bipolar isn't helping. But he has to learn to take responsibility for his feeling and his actions. Irrational or not, he owns his feelings. "I was angry and hurt when I couldn't find my jacket and you didn't stop what you were doing to help me look for it." You probably already know that the reply to the above statement needs to be different for a person with bipolar than for a person without bipolar. "I'm sorry you got the message that I didn't care about you. Next time I'll make sure you know that even if I can't stop what I'm doing to help, you will know that I didn't ignore what was happening and that I am not abandoning you." How freaking hard is that?

Also, he may, on some level, understand what he's feeling is on the irrational side so he is keeping it to himself until he has worked through it. In which case, trying to get him to open up is counterproductive to him processing... Especially if you are a fixer. Are you a fixer?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Silent treatment eh? Fine, I'll just invite a whole bunch of mates over and have a good time while you sulk in your room. So bah 

Heh sorry, I've become rather intolerant to BS like this since seperation, nvm me...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Tell him straight up... You have been sulking and pouting, giving every indication that something is bothering you. I have asked and you have not answered. Either come out with it or knock it off entirely! Then you wait silently. If he still plays the pouting game, then tell him he can sleep on the couch until he's gotten a grip on what ails him.


I have no experience dealing with some one who is bipolar in a relationship, but have seen the silent-treatment play out. The simplest way is the above, but with the added trick of leaving to do things. Is he won't interact, flat out tell him that you are going out, and that you will be happy to have him along if he wants to be an adult about it. Until he does, he can stay home.

Then go. The silent treatment loses a lot of power when you are not around to "hear" it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> He does have Bipolar 2. Historically when this happens it almost always comes back to something I did. Sometimes I never find out. Even if its not about me, it still isn't right for him to carry on like that and make me play guessing games.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At this point in your relationship, does it really matter? You know this game. My suggestion would be to tell him that you are over his silent treatment, and then just ignore him.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

The silent treatment a.k.a "stonewalling" is to intentionally try and frustrate you by refusing to work out an issue and get to some sort of resolution when they know that is exactly what you want to do.So you are "stuck" trying to "figure it out" on your own.In your head.Which is impossible for one person to do when the issue involves two people.They know it and it is a form of mental torture.Even if you are the one in the wrong and all you desire to do is apologize and have it acknowledged a "stonewaller" takes delight in refusing to even engage in that type of communication .Because they know you cant be at rest and they enjoy watching you in limbo getting more and more frustrated its how they punish you.

But I agree with the others.Its hard to do because you "care" and it appears they don't...Try to put your mind and focus on other things ..go out and about when he is home as much as you can.He cant "ignore you " when you arent there.So rather than just "ignore him" try to make your presence scarce and be otherwise occupied at home too.

And yes its not right.Stonewalling is a refusal /unwillingness to engage in problem solving to end a conflict.It in a very real way is like being abandoned mentally and emotionally in an attempt though to drive you nuts because YOU seek to resolve it.

((((HUGS)))))


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Point it out, tell him to knock it off, then go on about your business. You know what it is, you know he has a problem, but you can't keep allowing his moods to affect you. Break this codependent behavior by NOT feeding into his drama.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Welcome back Dallas! I missed you!


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> He does have Bipolar 2. Historically when this happens it almost always comes back to something I did. Sometimes I never find out. Even if its not about me, it still isn't right for him to carry on like that and make me play guessing games.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd probably saying something like, "I see you're not really talking to me. Since I have no idea why you're mad, I'll assume it's your own problem. I wish you luck getting it figured out." 

And then I'd go mostly silent myself and watch for a signal that he's over it - not in anger but in a silent respect for a troubled person. Disengaging, so to speak.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Your post made me think of this joke. I am sure your situation is more serious, but I think it is pretty common for women to over think what their men are thinking.

"Her Diary:

Tonight, I thought my husband was acting weird. We had made plans to meet at a bar to have a drink. I was shopping with my friends all day long, so I thought he was upset at the fact that I was a bit late, but he made no comment on it.

Conversation wasn't flowing, so I suggested that we go somewhere quiet so we could talk. He agreed, but he didn't say much. I asked him what was wrong. He said, 'Nothing.' I asked him if it was my fault that he was upset. He said he wasn't upset, that it had nothing to do with me, and not to worry about it.

On the way home, I told him that I loved him. He smiled slightly, and kept driving. I can't explain his behavior. I don't know why he didn't say, 'I love you, too.' When we got home, I felt as if I had lost him completely, as if he wanted nothing to do with me anymore. He just sat there quietly, and watched TV. He continued to seem distant and absent.

Finally, with silence all around us, I decided to go to bed. About 15
minutes later, he came to bed. To my surprise, he responded to my caress, and we made love. But I still felt that he was distracted, and his thoughts were somewhere else. He fell asleep -I cried. I don't know what to do. I'm almost sure that his thoughts are with someone else. My life is a disaster.


His Diary:

My Harley wouldn't start today, but at least I got laid."


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> Your post made me think of this joke. I am sure your situation is more serious, but I think it is pretty common for women to over think what their men are thinking.
> 
> "Her Diary:
> 
> ...


If that's the case and he bothered to write it down in his diary (it WAS on his mind IOW) when she said "whats wrong' why didn't he just say "the Harley wont start "IOW there was something wrong but his "silence" over it instead of just saying whats on his mind so she could move on is inconsiderate especially if she was asking him if it was anything she did.

If my husband came in today by the way and I seemed distant to him ..and he asked whats wrong " and I said "nothing" even though obviously something was wrong he would be wondering in his head too..if he had done something to piss me off .Especially If he said " I love you " and I did not say "I love you too" while I was obviously worried/preoccupied about something.

Or hey how about I'm just in a bad mood sorry I'm not very talkative Im just having one of those days its not you .


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

So last night when I got home, he was still sulking. I tried to get out of him how his annual review was at work and he said "it was really good." But it was pulling teeth to get anymore out of him. While dinner was cooking, I figured I'd just start gabbing at him about work. He started talking too, and I thought well, maybe he's getting over his hissy fit. 

This morning, back to the usual one word sentences. While we were getting dressed for work, I showed him a little bump on my breast (a little bug bite or pimple) and playfully showed him the rest of "the girls". He focused in on the bump and said "yep, that's a bump" and turned away. Normally if he's not mad at me he absolutely would've taken that opportunity to fondle and play (he's such a boob man). Nope. Not today. (And yes, if anyone was wondering, I would've let him...I wasn't just teasing him with the intention of 'look but don't touch'.) He walked right by me and mumbled 'have a good day' without stopping to hug me or anything which he normally does.

So, I'm trying to learn from this this time. Instead of letting it bother me and worry me like it normally would, I'm trying to figure out the right non-codependent reaction. I'm using this as an opportunity to learn and grow as a person and change some of my past enabling behaviors. Not for his sake, but for mine. 

If I say anything at all about his silent treatment, as in asking him what's wrong or saying I'll be here when you decide to get over yourself and tell me what's wrong, I feel like I'm giving in to what he wants. He wants me to notice, he wants me to ask. I feel it's probably best to not even acknowledge it...go on with my normal business, talk to him about my day even if he's not saying much back, etc. This way the ball is in his court - he can either come to me and tell me what's bothering him or he can continue to sulk and build up more resentment because he thinks I don't care about him enough to ask what's wrong. Either way, I can't win in his eyes. 

One thing Uptown said to me before was with someone with BPD (which I think he has), just simply my presence in the room is enough to trigger some sort of twisted reality in his mind about something I supposedly did or said. I don't have to say or do anything...just being present somehow triggers him. I'm guessing that's what's going on this time. He really wants me to play the guessing game. I'm not doing it this time.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Good for you!

I really think the best way to not be sucked into his game is to not be present so he plays alone. Find some reasonable way to avoid being in his company. I don't think games work out well so I would suggest you tell him that you plan to spend as little time with him as possible unless/until he is ready to communicate.

How hurtful this must be to you! You clearly have such a caring nurturing personality and your H is using your own qualities against you. This guy is gonna tear you to pieces if you can't find a way to keep out of his machinations, manipulations and stupid blame games.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

The chastiser of alleged grudge-holding is holding a grudge.

Mad. Hatter.

Good for you for going on about your day. Self preservation is what you should be doing in light of his sulky funk. Let him wallow in it!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I think you are right, he is DYING for you to ask him whats wrong! lol! DONT! Just go about your normal activities like nothing is going on. :smthumbup:


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

"Sulky Funk" - Love it! :rofl:

My H recently subjected me to 2 weeks of silent treatment, interspersed with the odd sentence or groan. 

I told him if he pulled that stunt again I'd use the opportunity to go on a girls' holiday. 

All the posts here are bang on the money - it's emotional abuse, manipulative, childish, controlling - and can drive you up the proverbial wall. 

Not to be tolerated. Ever. There is a difference between someone needing to calm down after a row, or a bit of space / alone time - but silent treatment is crazy making behaviour! 

Calmly telling your partner you will be doing x, y or z until they are ready to grow up and talk like an adult I found was the best route - then remove yourself so you're not subject to such treatment. It's wrong. You want to be married to an adult, not a child.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Ellie5 said:


> You want to be married to an adult, not a child.


I could not say it better.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> The chastiser of alleged grudge-holding is holding a grudge.


It's funny how that works, isn't it?  

We had been talking on Sunday about going on a little vacation next month with our son. (Horrible timing, because I'm ready to drop the bomb on him soon about divorce.) But my son is really excited about it and keeps asking if we've made plans yet. So...just now I asked my H if he had any opinions on what days we want to be there so I can look up hotel reservations. He's sitting in his recliner playing a game on his iPad. Here's the answer he gave while smugly continuing to stare at his iPad never once looking up: "I don't know. [Long silence] It's too bad we have all weekend to talk about things like that. Now it's a week night and we're tired and worn out. [Another moment of silence] I mean, if _I'm_ going to have to expend any mental energy on this, it's not going to be a weeknight when I should be studying." (He says while he's watching TV and playing on his iPad NOT studying.)

I didn't say another word (except in my mind I had a few choice words for him ). This is SO typical of him. He's obviously mad at me about something and he relishes any chance he can get to make snarky passive aggressive remarks. I'm going to bed now.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Waking up to life;1605667"I don't know. [Long silence said:


> It's too bad we have all weekend to talk about things like that. Now it's a week night and we're tired and worn out. [Another moment of silence] I mean, if _I'm_ going to have to expend any mental energy on this, it's not going to be a weeknight when I should be studying." (He says while he's watching TV and playing on his iPad NOT studying.)


Waking, you have my utmost respect for refraining from taking his stinkin' bait. I had to suck up the exact same stuff from my alcoholic (estranged) husband. Sarcasm. Passive-aggressive head games. Silent treatment. Blame-shifting. Childish behavior. Jeesh! I know you just want to beyotch slap him upside the head.

But you are taking the higher ground. *Good for you*!


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

Maybe a bit of a different perspective here. I am the "silent treatment/stonewaller" in my marriage. I can tell you from experience that I am not trying to evoke a guilt response from my husband, nor am I playing a game to see how much he loves me. Honestly, I will stonewall when I feel cornered. Sometimes if I am angry with my husband I will play out the entire argument in my head before I even say a word to him. I just "know" that he is going to get defensive and turn the tables on me. Then whatever I am upset about will be my fault OR I'll feel guilty dumping something on him that was so minor in his eyes even if it seemed important to me at the time. Either way, I lose, with the added bonus of not feeling like I can talk to my own husband because he will NEVER accept criticism. Instead, I brood. Eventually though the anger feeling fades (no one can keep up being angry 24/7 365) and I'm glad that an argument was avoided and really so is my husband. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it you who was saying on a different thread that you'd given up discussing your problems with your husband because you "just know" how he'll react and you hate putting your feelings out there to be rejected. Isn't it likely your husband is experiencing something similar?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Waking up to life said:


> It's funny how that works, isn't it?
> 
> We had been talking on Sunday about going on a little vacation next month with our son. (Horrible timing, because I'm ready to drop the bomb on him soon about divorce.) But my son is really excited about it and keeps asking if we've made plans yet. So...just now I asked my H if he had any opinions on what days we want to be there so I can look up hotel reservations. He's sitting in his recliner playing a game on his iPad. Here's the answer he gave while smugly continuing to stare at his iPad never once looking up: "I don't know. [Long silence] It's too bad we have all weekend to talk about things like that. Now it's a week night and we're tired and worn out. [Another moment of silence] I mean, if _I'm_ going to have to expend any mental energy on this, it's not going to be a weeknight when I should be studying." (He says while he's watching TV and playing on his iPad NOT studying.)
> 
> I didn't say another word (except in my mind I had a few choice words for him ). This is SO typical of him. He's obviously mad at me about something and he relishes any chance he can get to make snarky passive aggressive remarks. I'm going to bed now.



You did great. That right there is maddening and it takes all kinds of patience to NOT respond to the idiocy. Let him stay in it. Even if it lasts till the end of the week, ignore ignore ignore. He wants to play games? Ok. Show him you can play as long as he can. You can outlast his nonsense. This is almost like an episode of survivor. lol 

I'm rooting for you!!


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Waking up to life said:


> It's funny how that works, isn't it?
> 
> We had been talking on Sunday about going on a little vacation next month with our son. (Horrible timing, because I'm ready to drop the bomb on him soon about divorce.)


You mean threat of divorce or inevitable divorce? Why would you even care about the silent treatment if you're getting unhitched?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

As I said earlier, I'm using this as a learning experience for myself. In the past, I would've let it bother me and I would've played into his games and mind-effs. Now that I see clearly what's going on, I'm curious to see if I change my reaction how this might play out differently. Just a lesson in personal growth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm not nearly so bothered by silent treatment as I used to be. I see it for what it is, consciously or unconsciously, an attempt by a passive agressive person to manipulate and crush me. It's emotional abuse and the best thing is not to play their game e.g. by trying to coax them into interacting with you. 

OP - showing him your "girls" was you playing right into his hands as he wants you to try get his attention just so he can blow you off and make you feel bad! 

I hear what you say about personal growth. The link in my signature will be of iterest if you want to learn how to handle silent treatment differently. It's the first of a series of articles, my personal favourite one being the one about Specific Examples for dealing with silent treatment.


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## ImperfectMomma (May 2, 2012)

It's emotional abuse. Plain and simple. My STBXH would do it to me on occasion but the worst was the day after our anniversary (where he slept all day and then presented me with a note about how he wasn't happy)and he didn't talk to me AT ALL for 2 straight weeks. Yeah, then I found out he had been already having his affair at that time. Not saying by any means that this is your situation, just know that my STBXH apparently liked to be as mean as he could during that time.


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> Now that I see clearly what's going on, I'm curious to see if I change my reaction how this might play out differently. Just a lesson in personal growth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Changing your reaction is empowering. Good for you. I really do feel for you. Are you functioning in other ways, not losing your appetite, feeling anxious? I noticed a positive shift when able to detach emotionally. Not easy when all you're after is resolution.

If he continues to keep you dangling, can you go on holiday with your son on your own? or, if he keeps you hanging on for dates, why not you decide when you're going and tell him?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I got home from work about 30 min before he did (almost never happens). Since it was already dinner time, I asked what he felt like for dinner and gave him a couple of choices. He answers by saying there's "a ton" of food in the fridge getting ready to go bad (chicken breasts and a turkey breast). He insisted we put it in the freezer. I said "all of this?" because I planned to use some of it tomorrow. He says "Yes! Or else let's throw half of our expensive groceries away in the trash!" all dramatically. So I calmly put it in the freezer. He said we "never" eat leftovers so those were getting ready to go bad too. Now...mind you...the two things I offered were leftover homemade soup or a dish involving using some of the chicken that needed to get used. I calmly reminded him that I JUST offered to heat up leftovers, so his "we never eat leftovers" comment wasn't true. 

He fusses around the kitchen literally taking things out of my hand as I was trying to help. So I got out the strawberries and was getting ready to wash them. I set them on the counter and he promptly grabs them and tells me to let him do that. I asked why he had to take over everything I tried to do, to which he said "you're sick. Just go away and let me do this. Just go!" I am sick with a terrible head cold (which is rare for me...I'm hardly ever sick). I just quietly walked away and sat on the couch and thought 'thanks for treating me like sh*t when I feel like sh*t'. 

Now this evening he's being all nicey nice and saying how good dinner was and where did I want to go for dinner on my b-day which is Saturday. Just SNAP - his cold shoulder mode is over (for this evening anyway). I'm going to bed. I don't feel like playing emotional ping pong with him anymore tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

i have been on the receiving end of the silent treatment, and I'm ashamed to say, the giving end. When I was younger my older sister would get in a snit and give me the silent treatment for days until I apologized for whatever it was that I did wrong (even when I didn't know what I was apologizing for - I'd just apologize.) She carried that into her marriage. Her husband told her it made him feel really bad and she just...quit doing it. 

I didn't really do the silent treatment until my marriage. I did this at the beginning of the marriage. I would brood over some perceived wrong and want him to come to me to work it out. That happened a few times and he did come to me. Then, one time he didn't come to see what was wrong. It went on for a few uncomfortable day, and still, he didn't address it. I realized how stupid I was being and stopped doing it.

In looking back, it's a power play. It's a really bad thing to do, but the one giving the silent treatment does retain power if the other person walks on eggshells around them and tries to figure out how to make things better. If there's a problem, the mature thing to do is address it. I think the only way to break the silent treatment is to stop responding to it. Let him wallow in it. Don't feed into it.


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## whynotrightnow12 (Mar 30, 2013)

Hi Waking_Up, 
I have to chime in because your husband's behavior sounds eerily familiar to me. When I was in my twenties, before I was diagnosed with depression and OCD (sometimes I even wonder if I am borderline bipolar) and got treatment for it, that is EXACTLY how I behaved. 
I could not explain why I was angry, or who I was angry with, or why I felt so hopeless and snappy; it felt like I had a big dark raincloud over my head that was suffocating me to the point that it was hard to physically breathe. I was trying to pick fights with anybody that happened to be around me, so I could blame my feelings of despair and anger on them.... 
Then from one second to the next, the cloud was gone and I was back to my normal positive, attentive self. I think you should insist that your husband starts taking meds for his bipolar disorder again or at least talk to him about it. I hope this helps?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

whynotrightnow12 said:


> Hi Waking_Up,
> I have to chime in because your husband's behavior sounds eerily familiar to me. When I was in my twenties, before I was diagnosed with depression and OCD (sometimes I even wonder if I am borderline bipolar) and got treatment for it, that is EXACTLY how I behaved.
> I could not explain why I was angry, or who I was angry with, or why I felt so hopeless and snappy; it felt like I had a big dark raincloud over my head that was suffocating me to the point that it was hard to physically breathe. I was trying to pick fights with anybody that happened to be around me, so I could blame my feelings of despair and anger on them....
> Then from one second to the next, the cloud was gone and I was back to my normal positive, attentive self. I think you should insist that your husband starts taking meds for his bipolar disorder again or at least talk to him about it. I hope this helps?


This does make sense and probably has some truth to it as far as my H's up and down behavior. He did actually start taking his medication again on his own a few weeks ago (had been off since last July). I had encouraged him to see a psych to see if there is something newer/better with less side effects rather than trying to self medicate since he's only taking 1/2 of the originally prescribed dose. IMO he seems almost worse since he started it again. I have been his advocate/nurse/cheerleader for him getting proper mental health care for so many years...I'm not doing it anymore. He can take or not take whatever medication he wants. I stand by my advice for him to see a psychiatrist, and that's all I have to say to him about it. He's not taking his mental health issue seriously and he refuses to acknowledge its impact on me and our son.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I gave my wife the silent treatment on New Years eve... shes all asking me "What did I do?"

Hmm lets think hard , what could it be??????... hint a sexless marriage.

Well anyhow that night she kissed me and we had sex.

I'm not bipolar. needing meds...its calculated.

I'm thinking of another dose of silence since we haven't had sex since.

Silence for a man=sexual witholding for a woman

We know what hits you hard.
Two can play the "withholding" game.

and if she told me to get over it... I'd make it last longer.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Silence for a man=sexual witholding for a woman


Maybe in your case but how do you explain a man who uses the silent treatment and it has nothing to do with sex but just to avoid working on an issue SHE has with him?Or a woman who gives the man the silent treatment because hes not doing or is doing something that he wont change?Or better yet a woman that gives the man the silent treatment because HE witholds sex?

Women aren't the only ones who can be tortured with the silent treatment.And men aren't the only ones that can be manipulated by a woman withholding sex.But also usually if you aren't even SPEAKING to the person you probably also aren't having sex with them either.

But even if so..My husband would NOT be happy if we kept having sex but I refused to speak a word to him outside of bed or barely acknowledged his existance and I refused to tell him what my problem was or why I wouldn't speak to him.He would be hurt and confused regardless if we were having sex he might even start to resent having sex with me.Because verbal communication is a HUGE part of intimacy you can't have true intimacy without it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Maybe in your case but how do you explain a man who uses the silent treatment and it has nothing to do with sex but just to avoid working on an issue SHE has with him?Or a woman who gives the man the silent treatment because hes not doing or is doing something that he wont change?Or better yet a woman that gives the man the silent treatment because HE witholds sex?
> 
> Women aren't the only ones who can be tortured with the silent treatment.And men aren't the only ones that can be manipulated by a woman withholding sex.But also usually if you aren't even SPEAKING to the person you probably also aren't having sex with them either.
> 
> But even if so..My husband would NOT be happy if we kept having sex but I refused to speak a word to him outside of bed or barely acknowledged his existance and I refused to tell him what my problem was or why I wouldn't speak to him.He would be hurt and confused regardless if we were having sex he might even start to resent having sex with me.Because verbal communication is a HUGE part of intimacy you can't have true intimacy without it.


*So is sex*


Silence has a bigger effect on a woman than a man

Lack of sex has a bigger effect on a man than a woman.

Yet women have no guilt evidently until later when they cause a sexless marriage. Judging from the latest batch or "reformed" wives.

Men at least end the silent treatment in a finite time frame because WE know how it HURTS you and the last thing we want to do is hurt our wife.

Sexless wives have none of that. They don't care one iota. They are usually totally obtuse to the concept....until one day hopefully they realize what they have been doing to their own husbands.

The hurt all you women feel from getting the silent treatment "starts" to approach the pain of a man not getting regular sex from his own wife.

Now multiply that by years and see how you'd feel.... then you are closer to how it feels to a husband to live in a sexless marriage.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"....and if she told me to get over it... I'd make it last longer."


Wow. Not a marriage, a show down. Why stay? Sounds so depressing.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> So is sex


*I never said it wasn't*

My point was a man would be just as perplexed worried preoccupied if his wife suddenly stopped speaking to him ..would not tell him what was wrong regardless if she "had sex" with him in their usual pattern.Having sex would not make up for it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> "....and if she told me to get over it... I'd make it last longer."
> 
> 
> Wow. Not a marriage, a show down. Why stay? Sounds so depressing.



You start to lose patience and understanding after 3 1/2 years.... and you have to have some control over a difficult situation.

Why stay? Because I believe one day my wife will see the light. I really do.
I don't let my wife tell me how to feel.

Silence or withholding doing stuff around the house or being absent are our only weapons.

I use them sparingly when I feel like it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> *I never said it wasn't*
> 
> My point was a man would be just as perplexed worried preoccupied if his wife suddenly stopped speaking to him ..would not tell him what was wrong regardless if she "had sex" with him in their usual pattern.Having sex would not make up for it.


You'd be surprised some men would PREFER that very scenario.

Hmm...

Choice A: Good regular sexlife... quiet wife

vs.

Choice B: Verbally engaging wife with a sexless marriage

"I choose A Alex!"

SEx vs talking.. thats a close one for a man.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Men at least end the silent treatment in a finite time frame because WE know how it HURTS you and the last thing we want to do is hurt our wife.


This is a HUGE assumption about "men".



> The hurt all you women feel from getting the silent treatment "starts" to approach the pain of a man not getting regular sex from his own wife.
> 
> Now multiply that by years and see how you'd feel.... then you are closer to how it feels to a husband to live in a sexless marriage.


The first part is another HUGE assumption including many women are devastated because their husbands sexually refuse them.I have known many women who have spent years CRYING because their husband seems uninterested and for years on end..they get angry ...they think something is terribly wrong with THEM..they are "undesirable' period..they think about divorce and some do...they go "numb" all of it.

Not to mention many who "incorporate" USE the silent treatment its a pattern..their MO to control and YES hurt on purpose to punish.The silent treatment is USED by men and women so is sexual refusal..For various reasons.And it can be chronic and long term.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Choice A: Good regular sex life... quiet wife


We aren't talking about a "quiet" wife (or person )we are talking about STONEWALLING (the silent TREATMENT).Its INDIFFERENCE we are talking about not "quietness".And it can DESTROY your relationhsip.Its an "abusive" tactic.

Maybe you would be happy with a wife who seemed disgusted that you were in the same room with her deliberatley ignoring you when you spoke to her like you didn't exist but for having sex but I dare say most wouldn't.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> We aren't talking about a "quiet" wife (or person )we are talking about STONEWALLING (the silent TREATMENT).Its INDIFFERENCE we are talking about not "quietness".And it can DESTROY your relationhsip.Its an "abusive" tactic.
> 
> Maybe you would be happy with a wife who seemed disgusted that you were in the same room with her deliberatley ignoring you when you spoke to her like you didn't exist but for having sex but I dare say most wouldn't.


Still a hard decision.. remember you are talking about no sex.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> SEx vs talking.. thats a close one for a man.


No its "sex present" but being ignored otherwise as a means of punishment /control on an ongoing basis would eventually affect a "mans" desire to even be sexual with her.

I'm not referring to a "quiet" woman.Or sex "verses" talking..you are...Stonewalling is vindictive.

As well as most I dare say men or women would never CHOOSE between "talking verses sex".

That's like the question if you had two children both drowning and you only could choose one which one would you "prefer" saving.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "....and if she told me to get over it... I'd make it last longer."
> 
> 
> Wow. Not a marriage, a show down. *Why stay?* Sounds so depressing.


Because he's her best option. He's already said that a couple months ago.

FTR, T2FIO, some of us women are more about the sex than the talking. For me, withholding sex = withholding sex, silent treatment = silent treatment. THere is no "cut and dry" in this scenario. 

I am guessing your plan, T2FIO, hasn't worked yet... even with the bone she threw you a couple months ago.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Still a hard decision.. remember you are talking about no sex.


No YOU are talking about "no sex" verses " no talking".

I'm talking about the "silent treatment" (stonewalling).On a chronic basis .You brought up "silence to a man=sexual witholding to a woman..And saying sexual witholding for a man doesn't even compare to the silent treatment..and men would rather have sex and "no talking" if they had to choose and on and on ..

Having said that I KNOW women that have husbands that like to talk and talk and talk but don't seem interested in sex and they want him to SHUT up and TOUCH HER..Those women according to you should be in hogs heaven.And they aren't they are hurt and frustrated and feel "ignored" no matter how many hours he holds a conversation .

But again we are talking about witholding communication as a means to control /punish and or "torture" the person because they are normally not so quiet and its obvious "something is wrong".


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

[QUOTEFor me, withholding sex = withholding sex, silent treatment = silent treatment. THere is no "cut and dry" in this scenario. 
][/QUOTE]

Exactly they are both equally wrong ..but two different "methods" to hurt someone.That is of course if the intention IS to control /"get back at" etc..

Not every time you don't feel like talking its to "punish"/manipulate same with sex.

But the whole idea that has been introduced now isnt even the topic..that "men" would choose a mute who never turned him down for sex if he had to choose between "sex and talking" and "women" would choose a chatter box talkative eunich if she had to choose is ridiculous.I give human beings male and female more consideration than being that "simple".


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

If it is the classic silent treatment then it helps to cheerfully tell them you know exactly what they are up to and it isn't going to work. Then do whatever makes you be cheerful instead of being pulled into their vortex.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

[QUOTEFTR, T2FIO, some of us women are more about the sex than the talking. For me, withholding sex = withholding sex, silent treatment = silent treatment. THere is no "cut and dry" in this scenario. ][/QUOTE]

I would go further..most male and female would feel the relationship was incomplete or something was "wrong" if either one was being "witheld" chronically and especially to be vindictive or "punish".

The point I was making with that "sex lacking talking lacking" as in to "punish or control" ..I asked my husband..If we were having sex our routine way everything O.K there ..but "suddenly" I wouldn't speak to you and you asked "whats wrong" and all I said was "nothing"..And sex went on as usual but I continued to ignore you /not speak to you but with short answers..not laugh at your jokes..not say "I love you" back when you said it..Never told you things about my "life" my "world" never asked you about yours just basically like you weren't there unless it was for sex would you be happy and content and feel like our relationship was in good shape because we were having sex ?He said no.He actually said "that would be WEIRD".And he would have a constant feeling something was "wrong".


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> If it is the classic silent treatment then it helps to cheerfully tell them you know exactly what they are up to and it isn't going to work. Then do whatever makes you be cheerful instead of being pulled into their vortex.


Vortex...:iagree:


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> Vortex...:iagree:


I prefer to call it a black hole.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"Silence or withholding doing stuff around the house or being absent are our only weapons."

This is never true, for any couple. Your ability to walk away from the marriage is your only weapon. This applies to both spouses, and is always in play.

Stonewalling is one way to measure the higher likelihood that a couple will divorce. If any spouse thinks stonewalling is a good weapon to use, they are literally setting themselves up for a divorce.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I'm not sure if Trying2figureitout is just venting about his marriage or if he's projecting his marital dynamic (silent treatment for men = sex withholding for women) onto mine. At any rate, IF my H is unhappy about something, whether it be our sex life or something I did or didn't do, I CAN'T FRICKING READ HIS MIND!! If he told me about an issue and I refused to acknowledge it and he went into silent treatment mode, I could see that. But if everything's moving along fairly normally and suddenly for no APPARENT reason I'm getting the cold shoulder, that's manipulative and destructive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> I prefer to call it a black hole.


Even better!.. But how about a dying sun gradually sucking in a planet and slowly burning it to death?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I'm not sure if Trying2figureitout is just venting about his marriage or if he's projecting his marital dynamic (silent treatment for men = sex withholding for women) onto mine. At any rate, IF my H is unhappy about something, whether it be our sex life or something I did or didn't do, I CAN'T FRICKING READ HIS MIND!! If he told me about an issue and I refused to acknowledge it and he went into silent treatment mode, I could see that. But if everything's moving along fairly normally and suddenly for no APPARENT reason I'm getting the cold shoulder, that's manipulative and destructive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly.

How about If you have the complaint say "you lied again" and they refuse to talk about it "stonewalling"(silent treatment)..?Like "I'm not speaking to you until you get off that topic".?That is "avoidance of conflict resolution ".How about if YOU DO something wrong and you know it? And you apologize ?But for indefinate amount of time they still refuse to speak to you ?(that is PUNISHMENT vindictiveness)..

Not "speaking" to someone for an extended amount of time that you LIVE with that you "normally" speak to and is your "intimate" partner is torturous.And if that is their "MO" to control or punish you then it wears on you.Of course it depends on what it is.Sometimes we need a "cool down period" if its really really bad.But lets break it down."you forgot to get milk again?"....Oh Im sorry ...(no word for 5 days)..Thats PUNISMENT and control.

Its bad enough if its a friend.and of course it depends on what its for..


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

...and the manipulation continues...Yesterday before I left for work I attempted to give him a hug and said "love ya" as per our normal (not pissed at me) routine goes. He stood there stiff as a statue and put in hand on my back in a feeble effort to participate in the hug. He didn't say a word...no I love you, no have a good day, nothing. He followed me to the door to see if the cat wanted to come in. I said "bye!" as I went out. He said nothing...just shut the door behind me. 

Today is my birthday. He bought me a nice gift and a card as he always does. This time, the card he chose was very juvenile...VERY unlike the cards he usually gets, which are normally the syrupy "To the Love of My Life" kind of cards. Indside he just signed his name. No "I love you" like he always has written in the past. 

As I'm getting dressed to go out to eat, he walks by and grabs my butt and then stands there and flicks my breast with his finger repeatedly like he's trying to annoy me. I just stood there and gave him a "really?" look. 

I had a therapy appointment yesterday (unbeknownst to him). That was the best birthday present to myself. It was nice to have someone validate my feelings for a change.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> Even better!.. But how about a dying sun gradually sucking in a planet and slowly burning it to death?


That would work too. So, you can either slowly burn, or slowly be pulled apart in a gazillion directions. The silent treatment feels like a combination. It is like being bound and gagged, trapped in your own thoughts.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Waking up to life said:


> As I'm getting dressed to go out to eat, he walks by and grabs my butt and then stands there and flicks my breast with his finger repeatedly like he's trying to annoy me. I just stood there and gave him a "really?" look.


I truly admire your restraint. I couldn't have stood there allowing my H to flick my breast more than once. His "flicker finger" would have been twisted off!


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

waking up to life said:


> today is my birthday.


happy birthday!


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> ....He stood there stiff as a statue and put in hand on my back in a feeble effort to participate in the hug. He didn't say a word...no I love you, no have a good day, nothing.
> 
> Today is my birthday.
> 
> ...


So he gets you a gift and a card but doesn't write the usual "I love you" ?

This is childish. It does hurt, of course. 

However, I think you're doing the best thing by being "breezy" (as much as you humanly can) and nonchalant - the less he sees his behaviour *affecting* you, the less power he has to manipulate you with its use.

See through it.

If he can see it has little to no effect (and you can remind him how childish he's being), eventually he'll give up.

As soon as I got to a point whereby I genuinely started to care less when my H gave me the silent treatment, he would eventually came round - it IS hard, because we do care, but by being the emotionally mature one in this equation actually means you have the upper hand, not him. 

Let him show himself up for being such a twit. You're better than that.


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

And Happy Birthday to you too! :butterfly:


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Ellie5 said:


> So he gets you a gift and a card but doesn't write the usual "I love you" ?
> 
> This is childish. It does hurt, of course.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

You can in fact choose to make yourself happy and not be entirely reliant on an immature control hungry spouse for your happiness.


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks Advocado. 

If we have a controlling spouse, it can serve as a reminder that in reality they are actually, very insecure.

It's hard to not *react*, yet in keeping your cool and ploughing ahead with your own life, ultimately maintains your dignity.

There's so much more integrity in adopting this attitude, as opposed to ever being a giver of ST.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Because he's her best option. He's already said that a couple months ago.
> 
> FTR, T2FIO, some of us women are more about the sex than the talking. For me, withholding sex = withholding sex, silent treatment = silent treatment. THere is no "cut and dry" in this scenario.
> 
> I am guessing your plan, T2FIO, hasn't worked yet... even with the bone she threw you a couple months ago.


Its hard to tell... guess I'll know once we roll into a regular sex life. Until then not quite. Part of it is me.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

*QUIT THREAD-JACKING Waking Up To Life's thread*​

*This is directed at EVERYONE who is NOT helping Waking Up to Life!​*


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> So, I'm trying to learn from this this time. Instead of letting it bother me and worry me like it normally would, I'm trying to figure out the right non-codependent reaction. I'm using this as an opportunity to learn and grow as a person and change some of my past enabling behaviors. Not for his sake, but for mine.


 Good job, WUTL! If I haven't already recommended the books for you, read "Who's Pulling Your Strings" by Harriet Braiker as it TEACHES YOU how to DEAL WITH MANIPULATIVE behavior. Also try "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie which you should use like a WORKBOOK. Actually ANSWER all the questions at the end of each chapter. Very illuminating and helps you SEE YOUR OWN problems that need to be fixed to avoid future unhealthy relationships.



> If I say anything at all about his silent treatment, as in asking him what's wrong or saying I'll be here when you decide to get over yourself and tell me what's wrong, I feel like I'm giving in to what he wants.


 Your *assessment of this is correct! *He WANTS you to beg for his attention, to beg his forgiveness, to NEED the king's 'indulgence'. Blech!



> He wants me to notice, he wants me to ask. I feel it's probably best to not even acknowledge it...go on with my normal business, talk to him about my day even if he's not saying much back, etc. This way the ball is in his court - he can either come to me and tell me what's bothering him or he can continue to sulk and build up more resentment because he thinks I don't care about him enough to ask what's wrong.


 Oooh, THAT'S where you got it wrong! By continuing to chat with him like everything is 'normal' WHEN YOU BOTH KNOW IT ISN'T, you have 

let him believe that ignoring you is 'normal' behavior that YOU will accept and just wait out patiently (picture a puppy sitting 'at attention' on the floor looking up at the treat he is holding 3 feet above it's head....it's sitting there patiently, hopefully, waiting for him to drop that treat....disgusting, isn't it?)
you have abrogated your feelings of being an adult to him; whether or not YOU feel happy, accepted, adult is in HIS hands!



> Either way, I can't win in his eyes.


 HIS view is distorted, what about YOUR eyes? What about your son's eyes? THESE are MUCH MORE important and you KNOW it....keep your focus!



> He really wants me to play the guessing game. I'm not doing it this time.


 Since you have already decided to divorce him, the SOLE FOCUS of your efforts should be to do that which is in the best interest of your son and yourself (now AND in the future). Your STBXH's interests should NOT enter into the equation.

The non-codependent answer to 'the silent treatment' is TO IGNORE IT. 

Continuing to act as if everything is normal does not work (see above). 

Begging to know what you said/did does not work (he WANTS to punish you).

Ignoring the behavior will make it end. *People engage in behavior THAT WORKS.* They drop behavior that doesn't work. In the past, your engagement in begging for info, trying to placate just kept him going....he wanted to punish you and he has SEEN that this works...so he's kept it up for weeks, year after year.

Call him on it. State straight-forwardly, *"I know that you are trying to manipulate me by ignoring me. It will no longer work. I refuse to participate when you treat me like this. If you have a problem with me and you refuse to address it with me, I can't fix it. 

You can continue to be angry with me; *I* can't control YOUR feelings. YOU can't control MINE, either."* Then walk away! Do not ARGUE, do not even DISCUSS it. Let him absorb it if he wills, or dismiss it, or get angry. Until he's ready to behave LIKE AN ADULT not a spoiled child, he wastes NO MORE of YOUR time.

Go on about your business and IGNORE him. NOT because it's tit-for-tat (you ignore ME, so I'm ignoring YOU nyah, nyah, nyah), but BECAUSE interacting with him in a normal manner makes YOU feel hurt because he purposely ignores you, gives you the self-satisfied smugness, is overtly HURTFUL. So, YOU CHOOSE to disengage from such hurtful behavior UNTIL SUCH TIME as he snaps out of it and treats you like an adult treats other people.

If giving him a hug at the door is NORMAL, BUT it makes YOU feel HURT/SLIGHTED/PAINED when he doesn't hug back...then STOP hugging him at the door. HE can re-institute it when HE quits sulking. If asking about his day makes you feel like shyt because he IGNORES YOU or makes you feel STUPID for inquiring....then STOP asking about his day. HE can re-institute inquiring about each other's day when HE quits sulking. When HE is ready to interact with others like an adult, HE can SIGNAL that by......(wait for it)........ACTING LIKE AN ADULT!

He is acting like a child with a temper tantrum, yet he KNOWS *how* to act correctly (he engages in adult behavior quite frequently, doesn't he)...it's not like he is socially retarded. He is CHOOSING to be overtly hurtful. He is CHOOSING to act badly. He will CHOOSE to act adult again at some point. Until then, he CHOOSES to be ignored by people he treats badly. That's called 'having a consequence'. Needless to say, there shouldn't be any sex (who has sex with a child?) Go on about your day, about your business, about your life. Continue to be strong for you and your son. Practice the behaviors that fill you with peace, contentment, self-respect, self-love.

Since your STBXH does NOT want to talk about the vacation, have you considered going on it without him...just you and your son? I know your son dislikes his father's treatment of him; would it be a happier, healthier vacation if it's just the two of you? You and your son are about to move on WITHOUT your STBXH...is the vacation one last "hurrah" as a family? If so, is it likely to be a 'good' memory that your son will have of it, or a 'bad' memory?

BELATED HAPPY BIRTHDAY!​*​*Glad to hear the therapy session 
was a WONDERFUL birthday gift to yourself.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

This man flips back and forth with such randomness it would have made my former self feel like I was going crazy. Today he says he's sick...I've been sick with a head cold all week and there's no faking it - you can tell by how stuffy I sound. Well as usual he always says he's sick when I am. But he doesn't sound sick except his occasional dramatic dry coughs. I offered to heat up some soup. He said he was too tired to make anything to eat. I said again that I was offering to heat up soup for him. He declined and went to lay down. 10 minutes later he's back up, wanders into our son's room and yells at him about something random. He says again he's hungry so I again offer to make some soup. I get out a can of soup which he grabs out of my hand and says "I'll make it. Just go. I can't deal with you being all cold to me today." (Can we say...PROJECTION??) 

Later he was trying to study and he jumped down everyone's throat for any perceived interruption, including yelling at the cat for coughing. My son came in from outside to get something and his cousin was with him. My H apparently jumped all over my son when he came in and said "so I guess you're telling me my quiet study time is over??" God I seriously wanted to throat punch him. Now after dinner he's still whining about being sick but he's trying to act all nicey nice, chatting about stuff and saying how good dinner was. All I can think is "so did you get rid of the animal that crawled up your butt and died?" Ugh...at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel for me...I hope the timing works out financially for me so that I can start the divorce process within the next month. He doesn't have a clue what's getting ready to hit him (not that I haven't given him ample opportunities to get his head out of his ass).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> All I can think is "so did you get rid of the animal that crawled up your butt and died?"


I would have come out and asked him. 

So, you offered him soup, 3 TIMES. That's you, GIVING. Once is enough. Did he at any point offer to make it for you?

IGNORE him. Walk into another room if necessary. I know it's not easy but try not to allow this kind of behaviour to take up thinking time in your brain - it's petty. Accusing you of being cold towards him is unnecessary and wrong, and probably a stab at riling you. Don't let it. Don't allow him to pull your strings.

Be cool as a cucumber and let him get on with it.

Your H sounds just like mine  you're not alone sweetie. Like a big baby that needs attention. We don't reward bad behaviour.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Great job on the no throat-punching!!!!



> I offered to heat up some soup. He said he was too tired to make anything to eat. I said again that I was offering to heat up soup for him. He declined THAT should have been the end of it! It's like you're BEGGING him to ALLOW you to take care of him, to PROVE what a good wife you are. NOT picking on you, just pointing out behavior you want to change for the future. YOU OFFERED, HE DECLINED...END OF STORY. Anything he wants for THAT mealtime (only) is ON HIM. and went to lay down. 10 minutes later he's back up, wanders into our son's room and yells at him about something random. He says again he's hungry so I again offer to make some soup.





> Now after dinner he's still whining about being sick but he's trying to act all nicey nice, chatting about stuff and saying how good dinner was.


 He should STILL be on 'ignore' because he has not knocked-off the 'silent treatment' sulking. He can chat all he likes, it doesn't require a response.



> I hope the timing works out financially for me so that I can start the divorce process within the next month.


 Have you been for an initial consultation to a divorce attorney? (they're usually free or low-cost) IF NOT, then you need to do so. You need to know what your legal rights are w/regard to moving out of the house or forcing H to, or staying there in an in-house 180 until the divorce is final or the house is sold or whatever. Also, have you looked into counseling for your son? He's going to need it at some point. Even though his academics are STELLAR, there's a LOT of emotional abuse of him that's going to need to be spoken of and dealt with! 

YOU TWO can get there WUTL! It can SEEM overwhelming, but it's VERY do-able...step by step! As soon as you no longer live with H and his emotional abuse daily, YOU WILL BEGIN TO FEEL BETTER IMMEDIATELY! You will be shocked to find out that you've been living with stress/depression at a low (but constant) level for YEARS. You won't realize it until you suddenly notice it's absence!


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Ahhhh just wait until you divorce this whiny, needy, narcissistic man-baby. It will be like the world has been lifted from your shoulders! Your son will feel it too - my daughter blossomed once she didn't have to keep quiet for fear of upsetting his Lordship


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## whynotrightnow12 (Mar 30, 2013)

OMG!!!! Just reading about how he behaves makes me emotionally drained....can't imagine having to live through it!!!! Please consider going on vacation with your son alone...in fact you can come visit me and stay at my condo that is currently not rented. You can go to the beach and enjoy the beautiful ocean view and listen to the waves, so relaxing, it was 88 degrees here last week. I'll take you to get a massage too!!! You seriously need a few relaxing days WITHOUT HUBBY!!!


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## SalvageMyMarriage (Apr 6, 2013)

I supposed he doesn't do this very often?

Try talking to him again. Say you are willing to share his problems and problem solve with him. If he is not willing to share, then let him know that you will always be there for him if he wants to tell you anything. After that, then just ignore his silent treatment and get along with your life as per normal.

At least, you did your part to show that you care.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> He doesn't have a clue what's getting ready to hit him (not that I haven't given him ample opportunities to get his head out of his ass).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Pardon me for saying so but this sounds an awful lot like gloating. Just reading this makes me sad. The fact that he's content with the status quo enough to be blindsided and the fact that you appear to relish the fact. Like a divorce is a big "serves you right". I see that you both have fallen into highly dysfunctional patterns and that it's easier to be angry than to deal with the issues at hand and continue to be vulnerable. If you must proceed with the divorce, I implore you, please do not do it out of anger or navigate the process with anger either. Divorce should begin a process of healing, not becoming yet another thing to beat each other over the head with.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Fledgling said:


> Pardon me for saying so but this sounds an awful lot like gloating. Just reading this makes me sad. The fact that he's content with the status quo enough to be blindsided and the fact that you appear to relish the fact. Like a divorce is a big "serves you right". I see that you both have fallen into highly dysfunctional patterns and that it's easier to be angry than to deal with the issues at hand and continue to be vulnerable. If you must proceed with the divorce, I implore you, please do not do it out of anger or navigate the process with anger either. Divorce should begin a process of healing, not becoming yet another thing to beat each other over the head with.


She isnt gloating, she is fed up! As much as she has said to him, he KNOWS its coming, he is just in absolute denial to the point where he has blocked it out. Thats how he is with EVERYTHING. As much effort as she has put into letting him know how she feels, and counseling and everything, he is STILL going to be totally floored when she presents him with divorce. I totally feel her and am surprised she ISNT gloating and dancing for joy.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Fledgling said:


> Pardon me for saying so but this sounds an awful lot like gloating. Just reading this makes me sad. The fact that he's content with the status quo enough to be blindsided and the fact that you appear to relish the fact. Like a divorce is a big "serves you right". I see that you both have fallen into highly dysfunctional patterns and that it's easier to be angry than to deal with the issues at hand and continue to be vulnerable. If you must proceed with the divorce, I implore you, please do not do it out of anger or navigate the process with anger either. Divorce should begin a process of healing, not becoming yet another thing to beat each other over the head with.


Well if you read some of my other threads, such as http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/65793-waking-up-lifes-update.html, or http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/66520-when-leave.html, or http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...tional-death-grip-me-making-me-depressed.html, you'd see that I have absolutely agonized over this decision for many months. I have read many books, I've attended dozens of IC sessions, I've tried talking to my H on several occasions. No one knows more than I do how much sleep I have lost, how much crying I've done, how much second guessing I've done about this. I don't relish the fact that this is going to hurt him tremendously. In fact, that's the reason I've hesitated so long. I assure you and anyone else who might question my heartfelt motivations, I have absolutely no joy or sense of satisfaction in deciding to divorce him. It is the most painful decision I've ever had to make.


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## MeditMike80 (Dec 29, 2012)

I handle the silent treatment two ways:

1. If she tells me she's not going to talk to me, I tell her not to make promises she can't keep. This usually gets one of those "I want to laugh but I'm pissed off at you" smirks on her face and we usually end up discussing the issue.

2. If no warning is issued and she gives me the silent treatment, I act like I don't care. This usually bugs her and she'll ask me if I care that she's not talking to me and I say "not really." She'll then usually carry on for a while longer but then decides to discuss the issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Ellie5 said:


> I would have come out and asked him.
> 
> So, you offered him soup, 3 TIMES. That's you, GIVING. Once is enough. Did he at any point offer to make it for you?
> 
> Your H sounds just like mine  you're not alone sweetie. Like a big baby that needs attention. We don't reward bad behaviour.


^Those were the thoughts I had about that scene. When you repeated yourself, you were crossing a line into what he may perceive as controlling behavior. In his mind, this gives him reason to justify his behavior. 

I probably would have cracked up at his boo-hooing over the cat's hairball, and if he got mad, well... he was already mad. One of us might as well enjoy it.


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## whynotrightnow12 (Mar 30, 2013)

"Later he was trying to study and he jumped down everyone's throat for any perceived interruption, including yelling at the cat for coughing."

So, every time I thought of this yesterday, I started to giggle.... Sorry, I know this is a very serious issue for you, but the mental image of your 320 lb. husband yelling at a tiny pvssycat for coughing is just hilarious :rofl:

Is he still giving you the silent treatment?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

whynotrightnow12 said:


> "Later he was trying to study and he jumped down everyone's throat for any perceived interruption, including yelling at the cat for coughing."
> 
> So, every time I thought of this yesterday, I started to giggle.... Sorry, I know this is a very serious issue for you, but the mental image of your 320 lb. husband yelling at a tiny pvssycat for coughing is just hilarious :rofl:
> 
> Is he still giving you the silent treatment?


I know, it all sounds very childish. But when he yelled at the cat, he went over and tried to pick her up by the scruff of her neck to put her outside and she kinda screamed like it hurt her and ran away. That made me mad. I told him I would take care of the cat and that it was not necessary to handle her like that. 

Is he still giving me the silent treatment? No. Now he's flipped back the other way trying to be attentive and act like nothing happened. He's still physically very cold - doesn't try to hug me goodbye in the mornings and so on. This morning I was in the middle of blow drying my hair and he's trying to talk over the blowdrier asking me to look at a spot on his head. I said "hold on, please, I'm right in the middle of drying my hair". He acted all like a scolded puppy and said "I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to bug you. I didn't mean I wanted you to stop drying your hair this minute. Sorry." Like WAY over apologizing, again I think trying to make me feel like I jumped down his innocent little throat. I feel like I'm married to a 6th grader sometimes.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Waking up to life said:


> But when he yelled at the cat, he went over and tried to pick her up by the scruff of her neck to put her outside and she kinda screamed like it hurt her and ran away. That made me mad. I told him I would take care of the cat and that it was not necessary to handle her like that.


I was married to an a$$hole many years ago who picked up my beloved cat and threw him down HARD on the floor. I was leaving the scum anyway, but that hastened my departure.

Waking, you must have the patience of Job. The finger-flicking incident would have had me b!tch slapping him, but to handle an innocent animal roughly .... Children and animals and the people who handle them inappropriately ... don't get me started!


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Does anyone ever feel sorry for their pathetic passive aggressive spouse when they are acting out? And is it better to feel sorry for them than to feel angry I wonder.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Advocado said:


> Does anyone ever feel sorry for their pathetic passive aggressive spouse when they are acting out? And is it better to feel sorry for them than to feel angry I wonder.


Yes to both questions, once I understood what those ways of acting out meant. 

It boils down to the fact that they have severely low self esteem issues. When he would act out, I would become a range of emotions from frustrated to enraged, trying desperately for him to resolve issues....issues that would further damage his already crippled self esteem. Somewhere in the mix I am sure I used negative words , causing him to feel the need to punish me more. Not excusing him or even completely blaming him. Just stating that how we both reacted toward each other caused this relationship to be what it is today......an ICU patient on life support. 

I no longer get angry. I don't have the desire or energy. By changing me, I am finding that he is more receptive. I don't expect a miracle, but having him speak to me about his deep feelings about us, rather than go back into silent treatment, was a breakthrough.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Many thanks SIW for your take on this. 

Hmm - yes that does make sense. I hadn’t factored low self esteem into the equation but I can definitely see where you are coming from.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Advacado, I never felt sorry for mine. He made his choices.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

So...my H flips the light switch and all the sudden is more cheerful and chatty and such. I was sitting in bed reading and he was trying to chat with me and be conversational. I responded but not a lot, mainly because I was trying to read. He asks, "What's wrong? Not talking to me? Are you mad at me?" I said I was trying to read...then I said "I don't know what to say...you seemed to be pretty mad at me last week, so I don't know." He got pissy with me. Said he just doesn't know why I'm being this way to him. I have him examples of why I said he seemed mad at me last week. He said "there you go again holding grudges against me. That's all you can do is hold grudges about every little thing." I asked then was he denying that he was mad at me? He wouldn't deny it or confirm it. But then he said he's just so tired of me being so cold and unaffectionate. He complained that I haven't said I love you for 2 months. I said I had, but in the quick way like when you're leaving for work or hanging up the phone. He said it doesn't count, and he's not going to ever say it to me until I can say it to him and REALLY mean it. I didn't say a word. Honestly I my mind was blank. I felt like I just got mind-eff'd. His silent treatment was MY fault. Then he ended it by saying that I just wasted an hour of our time (it was really more like 30 min) that he could've been studying. 

Now he's being all nice and sweet and cheerful. Like nothing ever happened. He hugged me for a long time when I got home from work yesterday. I'm so emotionally numb from all of this back and forth crap with no resolution or even acknowledgement of the issues.


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## PrettyHappyOverall (Apr 19, 2013)

I have to admit, I am amazed at how bratty and spoiled some of the people here are. You have a guy who is telling you EVERY day he loves you, and is tired of getting the stereotypical quick out-the-door "I love you too", and you're WHINING about it?!?! Apparently you expect a marriage to be bliss from beginning to end. You don't seem to want to acknowledge that HE has issues with some things you do, yet you are angry because he "won't" acknowledge yours?
You've read books, gone to meetings, held midnight vigils, sacrificed chickens to nameless gods and they all tell you to leave him. You are EXACTLY what is wrong with this country. You are a lazy, spoiled kid who made a promise and now wants to renege on it instead of working to make the situation better. Not once have you mentioned a single good quality about him, not once. I wonder what he would have to say about you? Probably that he loves you and you are the best thing that ever happened to him.
You are in here positing all this personal crap to complete strangers, yet you wouldn't say ONE WORD of what you say in here to him, which would quite likely solve the problem. I sadly devoted a chunk of time I can never get back reading through the complaints you have about that EVIL guy, and you do exactly what everyone else does: You highlight the story from YOUR perspective and never, not once say a bad thing about yourself or a good thing about him; you make it out that you're married to Frankenstein on steroids. That is the typical me-me-me behavior endemic to this country. These things you complain about are so minor that it is incomprehensible to me. Every story, EVERY ONE has at least two sides. 
The day you leave him is the luckiest day of his life. I don't even know him from a hole in the wall and I already know he's too good for you. YOU'RE the one quitting and breaking a promise, not him.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

PrettyHappyOverall said:


> I have to admit, I am amazed at how bratty and spoiled some of the people here are. You have a guy who is telling you EVERY day he loves you, and is tired of getting the stereotypical quick out-the-door "I love you too", and you're WHINING about it?!?! Apparently you expect a marriage to be bliss from beginning to end. You don't seem to want to acknowledge that HE has issues with some things you do, yet you are angry because he "won't" acknowledge yours?
> You've read books, gone to meetings, held midnight vigils, sacrificed chickens to nameless gods and they all tell you to leave him. You are EXACTLY what is wrong with this country. You are a lazy, spoiled kid who made a promise and now wants to renege on it instead of working to make the situation better. Not once have you mentioned a single good quality about him, not once. I wonder what he would have to say about you? Probably that he loves you and you are the best thing that ever happened to him.
> You are in here positing all this personal crap to complete strangers, yet you wouldn't say ONE WORD of what you say in here to him, which would quite likely solve the problem. I sadly devoted a chunk of time I can never get back reading through the complaints you have about that EVIL guy, and you do exactly what everyone else does: You highlight the story from YOUR perspective and never, not once say a bad thing about yourself or a good thing about him; you make it out that you're married to Frankenstein on steroids. That is the typical me-me-me behavior endemic to this country. These things you complain about are so minor that it is incomprehensible to me. Every story, EVERY ONE has at least two sides.
> The day you leave him is the luckiest day of his life. I don't even know him from a hole in the wall and I already know he's too good for you. YOU'RE the one quitting and breaking a promise, not him.


WOW. You must be just like him, bi-polar and everything, if you are unable to see how manipulative his behavior towards her is. :scratchhead:


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

PrettyHappyOverall said:


> I have to admit, I am amazed at how bratty and spoiled some of the people here are. You have a guy who is telling you EVERY day he loves you,
> 
> *I don't remember saying that he tells me he loves me every day. He doesn't. *
> 
> ...


*Ok. Thanks for your input and welcome to the forum. That was one hell of a first post to make. *


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## whynotrightnow12 (Mar 30, 2013)

Wow, it seems like your husband has found the forum, Waking_Up!


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

WUTL, I just cut and pasted your posts, and if you're not ready to be in the hot seat, don't read this, because it's going to be a loving and respectful confrontation of the way you're helping to create the situation you are in. (Which I do not think is hopeless, by the way.) My comments will be inserted in bold.



Waking up to life said:


> So last night when I got home, he was still sulking. I tried to get out of him how his annual review was at work and he said "it was really good." But it was pulling teeth to get anymore out of him. While dinner was cooking, I figured I'd just start gabbing at him about work. He started talking too, and I thought well, maybe he's getting over his hissy fit. *You say he was still sulking, but you also say he was talking enough that you thought he was getting over his sulkiness. I think you may be projecting a lot on him. I'll show you why below.*
> 
> This morning, back to the usual one word sentences. While we were getting dressed for work, I showed him a little bump on my breast (a little bug bite or pimple) and playfully showed him the rest of "the girls". *Rug sweeping?*He focused in on the bump and said "yep, that's a bump" and turned away. Normally if he's not mad at me *Have you considered that maybe sometimes he does this when he's NOT mad but you assume that he is because he's not meeting your expectations of how he should react? Again, I will comment more on this below.*he absolutely would've taken that opportunity to fondle and play (he's such a boob man). Nope. Not today. (And yes, if anyone was wondering, I would've let him...I wasn't just teasing him with the intention of 'look but don't touch'.) He walked right by me and mumbled 'have a good day' without stopping to hug me or anything which he normally does.
> 
> ...





Waking up to life said:


> It's funny how that works, isn't it?
> 
> We had been talking on Sunday about going on a little vacation next month with our son. (Horrible timing, because I'm ready to drop the bomb on him soon about divorce.) But my son is really excited about it and keeps asking if we've made plans yet. So...just now I asked my H if he had any opinions on what days we want to be there so I can look up hotel reservations. He's sitting in his recliner playing a game on his iPad. Here's the answer he gave while smugly continuing to stare at his iPad never once looking up: "I don't know. [Long silence] It's too bad we have all weekend to talk about things like that. Now it's a week night and we're tired and worn out. [Another moment of silence] I mean, if _I'm_ going to have to expend any mental energy on this, it's not going to be a weeknight when I should be studying." (He says while he's watching TV and playing on his iPad NOT studying.) *You are seeing that he's treating you the way he thinks you treat him. Yes, it's baloney, but it's ok for him to not want to talk. If the weekend is past, say, "Ok, then I'll decide for us if you'd rather not think about it," or if you have an upcoming weekend, say, "Cool. I'll have some ideas ready so we can make our decisions on Saturday." STOP MAKING HIM WRONG ALL THE TIME! *
> 
> I didn't say another word (except in my mind I had a few choice words for him ). This is SO typical of him. He's obviously mad at me about something and he relishes any chance he can get to make snarky passive aggressive remarks. I'm going to bed now. *You jump into anger very easily. You choose what to think and how to perceive his remarks. You *could* choose to think, "Wow, he must feel stressed out if doesn't recognize that he's talking about needing to study and being too tired to talk, but is playing games." This might lead you to say something NICE back to him, or rub his shoulders for a couple of minutes. The point is, what YOU think determines your response. If you learn to see things differently, the entire dynamic of your relationship will change. Right now, you both are SOOO butthurt over every little thing that you've got a "War of the Roses" thing going on. Get over yourself if you want him to get over himself. *





Waking up to life said:


> I got home from work about 30 min before he did (almost never happens). Since it was already dinner time, I asked what he felt like for dinner and gave him a couple of choices. He answers by saying there's "a ton" of food in the fridge getting ready to go bad (chicken breasts and a turkey breast). He insisted we put it in the freezer. I said "all of this?" because I planned to use some of it tomorrow. *This is an example of what you both do to each other. Instead of him just letting you do what you were going to, he feels he has to come in and exert himself. Instead of letting him have that influence, you THINK it's a challenge to you and so you put up obstacles by questioning him. If you THOUGHT "Oh, he must be trying to get attention and praise" and responded with "I'm glad you're thinking like that. Since I was going to use some of the chicken tomorrow, I'd like to keep that out, but freezing the rest sounds like a great idea" you would have had an entirely different experience. But instead.... *He says "Yes! Or else let's throw half of our expensive groceries away in the trash!" all dramatically. *He gets defensive.*So I calmly put it in the freezer. *And you take over what he was doing instead of letting him achieve what he set out to do.*He said we "never" eat leftovers so those were getting ready to go bad too. *His thought patterns are just as convoluted as yours. Instead of seeing himself as someone who just intruded on your plans, he now sees you as the intruder who is in his way, so he tries to make you feel bad. *Now...mind you...the two things I offered were leftover homemade soup or a dish involving using some of the chicken that needed to get used. I calmly reminded him that I JUST offered to heat up leftovers, so his "we never eat leftovers" comment wasn't true. *And voila! Tit for tat. You get defensive right back. Now you're both unhappy.*
> 
> He fusses around the kitchen literally taking things out of my hand as I was trying to help. *He's feeling a need to reassert himself. He's a man, after all. *So I got out the strawberries and was getting ready to wash them. I set them on the counter and he promptly grabs them and tells me to let him do that. *More control issue behavior.* I asked why he had to take over everything I tried to do, to which he said "you're sick. Just go away and let me do this. Just go!" I am sick with a terrible head cold (which is rare for me...I'm hardly ever sick). I just quietly walked away and sat on the couch and thought 'thanks for treating me like sh*t when I feel like sh*t'. *I wonder what would have happened if you said, "That's thoughtful of you. Thank you for giving me a break" in a sincere tone of voice when you walked away, even if you didn't completely mean it. *
> 
> ...





Waking up to life said:


> ...and the manipulation continues...Yesterday before I left for work I attempted to give him a hug and said "love ya" as per our normal (not pissed at me) routine goes. *You went to bed mad and now you're acting lovey dovey. He's thinking "SNAP - her cold shoulder mode is over (for now, anyway)." Does this sound familiar from oh, about one paragraph ago? *He stood there stiff as a statue and put in hand on my back in a feeble effort to participate in the hug. He didn't say a word...no I love you, no have a good day, nothing. He followed me to the door to see if the cat wanted to come in. I said "bye!" as I went out. *Did you tell him you love him in any NON-ROUTINE way? *He said nothing...just shut the door behind me.
> 
> Today is my birthday. He bought me a nice gift and a card as he always does. This time, the card he chose was very juvenile...VERY unlike the cards he usually gets, which are normally the syrupy "To the Love of My Life" kind of cards. Indside he just signed his name. No "I love you" like he always has written in the past. *How often does he complain that he feels like he can't ever do well enough to please you? He got you a card. He took the time to go to the store and pick something out even though he's not real thrilled with you these days, either. But instead of focusing on that, you'll criticize him. How do you suppose this helps your marriage?*
> 
> ...





Waking up to life said:


> This man flips back and forth with such randomness it would have made my former self feel like I was going crazy. Today he says he's sick...I've been sick with a head cold all week and there's no faking it - you can tell by how stuffy I sound. Well as usual he always says he's sick when I am. But he doesn't sound sick except his occasional dramatic dry coughs. I offered to heat up some soup. He said he was too tired to make anything to eat. *That enmeshment is REALLY highlighted here. You offer to heat up soup, and he thinks of it as himself making soup. You both need to stop doing each other's thinking and actions for a while and instead, step back and watch and learn.*I said again that I was offering to heat up soup for him. He declined and went to lay down. 10 minutes later he's back up, wanders into our son's room and yells at him about something random. He says again he's hungry so I again offer to make some soup. I get out a can of soup which he grabs out of my hand and says "I'll make it. Just go. I can't deal with you being all cold to me today." (Can we say...PROJECTION??) *Yep... from both of you! *
> 
> Later he was trying to study and he jumped down everyone's throat for any perceived interruption, including yelling at the cat for coughing. *When you are THIS tied up in each other's identity, it's normal and healthy to rebel against it sometimes. That's what you saw your husband do when he sees these things as interruptions.*My son came in from outside to get something and his cousin was with him. My H apparently jumped all over my son when he came in and said "so I guess you're telling me my quiet study time is over??" *And again, he responds just like you did after the strawberries. Throws up his arms, feels like a victim, and walks away.*God I seriously wanted to throat punch him. Now after dinner he's still whining about being sick but he's trying to act all nicey nice, chatting about stuff and saying how good dinner was. All I can think is "so did you get rid of the animal that crawled up your butt and died?" *What thoughts were you having? What kind of kind thoughts could you have had instead? What would have happened if you'd focused on a kind thought like, "He's certainly being nice! He wants me to know that he feels bad about his outburst earlier?" *Ugh...at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel for me...I hope the timing works out financially for me so that I can start the divorce process within the next month. He doesn't have a clue what's getting ready to hit him (not that I haven't given him ample opportunities to get his head out of his ass). *Go ahead. Up the ante some more. Since pouting and criticizing and blaming haven't "fixed" him... show the worthless piece of crap that he'll pay for not giving you what you've wanted all along. Not that he ever understood these problems any better than you have, or you'd have fixed them by now, right? *
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Waking up to life said:


> I know, it all sounds very childish. But when he yelled at the cat, he went over and tried to pick her up by the scruff of her neck to put her outside and she kinda screamed like it hurt her and ran away. That made me mad. I told him I would take care of the cat and that it was not necessary to handle her like that. *Again, deciding HOW each other should do things instead of just letting each of you be yourselves.*
> 
> Is he still giving me the silent treatment? No. Now he's flipped back the other way trying to be attentive and act like nothing happened. *This mirrors your behavior - going to bed, then being loving in the morning, or trying to make soup for him after thinking how he's faking sick. *He's still physically very cold - doesn't try to hug me goodbye in the mornings and so on. This morning I was in the middle of blow drying my hair and he's trying to talk over the blowdrier asking me to look at a spot on his head. *Look at this bump on my tit!*I said "hold on, please, I'm right in the middle of drying my hair". *You went on with nothing more than a brief verbal acknowledgment, the same way he responded when you showed him your bump, and you resent that he felt hurt the way you did.*He acted all like a scolded puppy and said "I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to bug you. I didn't mean I wanted you to stop drying your hair this minute. Sorry." Like WAY over apologizing, again I think trying to make me feel like I jumped down his innocent little throat. I feel like I'm married to a 6th grader sometimes.





Waking up to life said:


> So...my H flips the light switch and all the sudden is more cheerful and chatty and such. I was sitting in bed reading and he was trying to chat with me and be conversational. I responded but not a lot, mainly because I was trying to read. *This correlates to the iPad game. You *could* have paid attention to your husband, but a book was more important, just like his games were when you wanted to talk about vacation.*He asks, "What's wrong? Not talking to me? Are you mad at me?" I said I was trying to read...then I said "I don't know what to say...you seemed to be pretty mad at me last week, so I don't know." He got pissy with me. Said he just doesn't know why I'm being this way to him. I have him examples of why I said he seemed mad at me last week. He said "there you go again holding grudges against me. That's all you can do is hold grudges about every little thing."* He's right. You do.* I asked then was he denying that he was mad at me? He wouldn't deny it or confirm it. But then he said he's just so tired of me being so cold and unaffectionate. *He has the same complaints you do because you BOTH do the SAME things to each other! *He complained that I haven't said I love you for 2 months. I said I had, but in the quick way like when you're leaving for work or hanging up the phone. He said it doesn't count, and he's not going to ever say it to me until I can say it to him and REALLY mean it. *More tit-for-tat scorekeeping.*I didn't say a word. Honestly I my mind was blank. I felt like I just got mind-eff'd. His silent treatment was MY fault. *Just as you blame him for yours?*Then he ended it by saying that I just wasted an hour of our time (it was really more like 30 min) that he could've been studying.
> 
> Now he's being all nice and sweet and cheerful. Like nothing ever happened. He hugged me for a long time when I got home from work yesterday. I'm so emotionally numb from all of this back and forth crap with no resolution or even acknowledgement of the issues.


*I encourage you to sweep your own doorstep before complaining about the dirt on his. If you STOP engaging in these patterns, your relationship will blossom, but I don't think you can even see how you're doing the same thing to him and that he's just as miserable as you are! Your well-being, his, and your SON'S well-being are at stake here, and divorce may be a convenient, temporary answer, but I do hope you'll stop letting yourself think about divorce and instead, focus on being a supportive, loving, KIND wife who supports her husband instead of breaking him down at every turn. I'm picking up a lot of clues that he'll respond very, very well to that. Yes, it will take a few months to get on track, but it's not nearly as hard as it seems. You must consciously decide to NEVER criticize or blame and to replace it with receptiveness. 

You both could use some codependency work.*


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## PrettyHappyOverall (Apr 19, 2013)

Pretty much what I said, just in nicer words.
If you want to come here to kibbitz with the bra-burners, go ahead, but all you are looking for is justification for quitting.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

You can zip your fly back up, PrettyHappyOverall, you've proven you've got one....big-frickin-whoop!

Your PROJECTIONS of YOUR OWN unhappiness are just plain SAD.

Your GENERALIZATIONS about women are just plain stupid.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> KathyBatesel:
> divorce may be a convenient *What in the WORLD is CONVENIENT about divorce? The no money? The major decisions with no backup? The lack of daily emotional support (okay, she's there ALREADY in THIS marriage!)?* temporary answer *It's a PERMANENT SOLUTION to an untenable situation. It's not changing her HAIR COLOR! It's ridding her life (and her son's life) of a DAILY TOXIC INFLUENCE! *but I do hope you'll stop letting yourself think about divorce and instead, focus on being a supportive, loving, KIND wife who supports her husband * but gets NOTHING back FROM HIM in the way of support because....why? Because he's SICK? Because he's SICK and won't get treated? Because he's sick and won't get treated and it's easier (path of least resistance) for him to pick on HER and their SON because hurting THEM makes him feel temporarily better about his own crappily LOW SELF ESTEEM?
> 
> We would NEVER suggest that she allow him to PHYSICALLY PUNCH her in the face regularly because it helps him feel temporarily BETTER about his low self esteem, but we're going to suggest she let herself AND THEIR SON be EMOTIONALLY PUNCHED on a regular basis because THAT helps him feel temporarily better?* instead of breaking him down at every turn. I'm picking up a lot of clues that he'll respond very, very well to that. *You can only expect a person to pull the MAJORITY of the weight in a relationship for short periods of time. If the other spouse is UNWILLING or UNABLE to pull half the load over LONG PERIODS of time, then you do NOT have a partnership! When ONE PERSON has EVERYTHING THEIR WAY the VAST majority of the time and the other person has to CONSTANTLY give in, make the sacrifices, "be the bigger person", "suck it up", take one for the gipper....then what you have is a parent/child or a lord/vassal relationship not a two-equal-partners relationship.*
> ...



She has DONE HER DUE DILIGENCE to try to save this marriage: talking, books, counseling, more talking, more books, more therapy...HE IS UNWILLING TO talk, read, attend therapy, OR admit that HE bears any of the responsibility for what is wrong in this marriage. SHE CANNOT fix it HERSELF! Can't do it. We ALL know it takes TWO to make a marriage work. TWO people! And there is only ONE in THIS "MARRIAGE" making an effort to improve this situation.

And let us NOT forget their son!


That would be the son in HIGH SCHOOL (full well OLD ENOUGH to recognize crappy unacceptable behavior when he SEES it!)
That would be the son who HIDES in his room.
That would be the son who avoids contact with his father as much as possible.
That would be the son who buries himself in academics to avoid dealing with life at his house.
That would be the son who is embarrassed/afraid/ashamed to invite friends over to his house because WHO KNOWS what kind of crazy-making behavior dad has chosen for TODAY!
Waking Up To Life: Your son only gets ONE childhood. He's had more than enough of the crazy-making. Help him have some peace, joy, love in his home BEFORE he has to leave for college and START HIS OWN FAMILY! And, please insist that he see a counselor in the near future so he can work on any self-esteem issues living in this pressure-cooker of crazy has erroneously made him create. Have him talk to someone so he can see that HE is NOT the reason his father picks on him constantly. He is NOT the reason for tension/dissention/upheaval in the house. He is GREAT just the way he is and all this other crap is EXTERNAL to him!

Hang in there, WUTL! We KNOW the last few months have been hard on you...hell, the last couple DECADES have been hard. But, you've got your WONDERFUL SON out of this marriage and you need to concentrate on THAT and keeping him and yourself healthy! If your h does NOT want to acknowledge/deal with his problems, then YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM. It's like trying to get a drunk to see that s/he has a problem when they don't want to deal with it. It's futile.

Your 20yo self made a choice based on a 20yo's knowledge and experience in life (yes, we'll all stop here and have a good snicker since we've ALL been there and done that!). You are NO LONGER that 20yo! If this relationship has not GROWN in a healthy way, if it no longer meets YOUR needs in a healthy way, nor your son's need for a healthy family environment with good role models, then it is TIME to move on! Other people (your h, your FOO, his FOO, your friends, neighbors, co-workers, fellow church members, religious affiliates, political associates, virtual friends/enemies/frenimies on the internet) do not have to AGREE with you. We can each judge you in our own little minds (right/wrong/indifferent) as that is OUR right, and you CAN IGNORE US...as THAT is YOUR right!

You know how much you have taken and how much more you can/can't take.

You know how much your son has taken and how much more he should/shouldn't take. When he hides out and can't enjoy living in his own home, it's time to cut EVERYONE'S losses!

As an adult, you'll do what you believe is BEST for YOURSELF and for YOUR SON (just as you have his whole life) to live happy healthy productive lives. Your h will do what HE believes is BEST for HIMSELF to live a happy healthy productive life. And you may AGREE to DISAGREE if those lives are NOT lived in the same house in the same manner.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> [/B]
> She has DONE HER DUE DILIGENCE to try to save this marriage: talking, books, counseling, more talking, more books, more therapy...HE IS UNWILLING TO talk, read, attend therapy, OR admit that HE bears any of the responsibility for what is wrong in this marriage. SHE CANNOT fix it HERSELF! Can't do it. We ALL know it takes TWO to make a marriage work. TWO people! And there is only ONE in THIS "MARRIAGE" making an effort to improve this situation.


If she has read the books, talked, attended counseling, etc. then why is she still engaging in these behaviors? 

She may have gained the knowledge, but "knowing" what's right and doing it are two different things. I still smoke cigarettes, and I've known for a long time that they're unhealthy. Should I blame them since I have learned how bad they are, or should I change what I do if I want to stay healthy? 

I understand that she's unhappy. I realize she has been agonizing over her decision. I understand that he's not participating in the things she'd like him to. I understand that there's a child in the equation who is getting hurt (and who will get hurt by divorce, too.) 

And I can see very clearly that she's contributing to the problem. I am not attacking WUTL. There's no need to jump to her defense. It sounds like you are relating strongly to what she's going through, and I get it.... sometimes it feels like no matter what you do, things don't change. 

Is that the case here? I really don't think it is. I do not see WUTL and her husband as being incompatible. If anything, they have the opposite problem. Their compatibility is high on most things - so much so that they have forgotten how to tell the difference between the "I" and the "we."

Despite their difficulties, I see how she is continuing to invest in her husband and is entirely focused on his well being. And I know from experience that reading, counseling, etc. don't work magic and they don't fix problems in a month or two that took YEARS to build up, but most of us get impatient when we don't see ENOUGH change fast ENOUGH. All I'm saying is that she can't very well complain and demonize him when she is doing the same exact things.



> What in the WORLD is CONVENIENT about divorce? *What is convenient about divorce is that is provides the promise of a quick solution compared to repairing the marriage, but yes, it's temporary. She will likely bring her same ingrained behaviors into her next relationship.*The no money? The major decisions with no backup? The lack of daily emotional support (okay, she's there ALREADY in THIS marriage!)? It's a PERMANENT SOLUTION to an untenable situation. It's not changing her HAIR COLOR! It's ridding her life (and her son's life) of a DAILY TOXIC INFLUENCE!
> 
> *Not really, because her behaviors are part of that toxicity. Like it or not, it's very clear that she is doing the same toxic behaviors she's complaining about. *
> 
> ...


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## PrettyHappyOverall (Apr 19, 2013)

And you've proven you DON'T have one.
Now that we've all been gender-identified, explain to me why quitting a marriage is her best option. You've heard one side of a story, and already labeled her husband as "The Biggest Loser". Typical modern-day reaction, you'd believe the moon is yellow cheese if someone put it in a thread.. I bet if you asked hubby what he thought of the marriage, he'd have his complaints too, but she's not here to hear about that, she's here to get justification. Sorry, I'm not jumping in that boat without seeing if it really has a bottom.
I haven't heard one good thing about hubby, not one, so it is obvious she wants to give up, but needs a bunch of strangers to coo and coddle her and tell her she's perfect. My wife is bipolar, and it's been pretty rough sometimes, but I not only made a vow to stay with her, I also know she loves me and that no one is perfect. I'm sure she has her complaints about me.
Here's what to do: Leave your husband, go out and find another guy. It's what you want to do, so don't worry about him or the kid or any of that stuff. Of course, you will eventually find that the new guy has things about him you can't stand, but hey, you'll feel empowered for a while.


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## PrettyHappyOverall (Apr 19, 2013)

And thanks, Kathy, you hit the nail on the head. That is why only women should be politicians; they can put things in a nicer frame. Guys (we established I am one) can only put things bluntly. I'm not out to hurt the girl's feelings, just tired of hearing the same whining and whiner support.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

I think that Kathy made a valid point above that if it was easy for the husband to change things and fix things why hasn't WUTL figured it out herself? What she has "figured out" is that only her husband can change things. Kathy also pointed out that they use the same behaviours on one another (bump on boob/spot on head, video games/reading book when the spouse wants attention, the "I love you" tug of war) Kathy is also right in saying alot of times that we know what to do but don't do it.

If WUTL truly believes that divorce is the best option for her, she may be right BUT she hasn't acknowledged the negative traits in herself that she will carry to the next relationship. I know that she is just venting here about wanting to "punch him in the throat" but can you imagine if a man on this board posted such thoughts? I know alot of women would read that as an abusive thought pattern from a male board member and advise the wife to run far and fast away.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I concur with your point, *KathyBatesel*, that WUTL *is* contributing to the disfunction in the relationship. She has acknowledged this as well by saying 'I don't want to keep behaving the same way' and 'I did this and that, what can I do differently/better in the future', etc.

My biggest bone of contention would be that your stance seems to be that because SHE has read books, had therapy, talked ,etc. she should be ALL BETTER now. She *IS* better than she was, but she isn't PERFECT; she's never going to be and nobody (including her) expects that. What the hell is HE bringing to the table OTHER THAN his usual disfunction? NOTHING. He isn't even TRYING to get better, at least you've got to give WUTL props for MAKING AN EFFORT!

She should not have to be PERFECT or even SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER than him to want OUT of this sick disfunctional relationship that is adversely affecting herself and their son.

I've read ALL of WUTL's threads and I don't recall a SINGLE TIME where she has intimated that she

is finished with growing/progressing herself
believes she is ALL BETTER NOW and would be a perfectly heatlhy mate for some other man
is even LOOKING for another man.
All *I'VE* read is a woman trying very hard to extricate herself and their teen-aged son from a warped, unhappy existence which is doing her NO GOOD and STUNTING his formative years. Their son HIDES IN HIS ROOM. He has friends, but REFUSES to invite them over to his house. How is living like *that* good for him?

She seems HEALTHY ENOUGH TO ME (I do not PRETEND to be a shrink/therapist/doctor) to decide if/when she's had ENOUGH for herself and their SON.

*WUTL:* I'm not positive, but I BELIEVE I've recommended BOTH:
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie and
Who's Pulling Your Strings by Harriet Braiker

If not, I apologize. You NEED to read them BOTH (in that order). You will gain GREAT insight to yourself and your own problems in the first one, and you'll recognize your h in the second one and HOW to disengage from manipulation (because if/when you decide to leave him, you WILL still have to engage with him with regards to your son.)


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## PrettyHappyOverall (Apr 19, 2013)

Again, you have only her side of things. You don't know what he has or hasn't tried as far as changing. I know myself I don't broadcast to my wife when I am trying to change a certain behavior, that's just how a lot of guys are.
I am sure a lot of things are being left out; my wife does the exact same thing when talking about problems. Too many people have the tendency to make the "other" person out to be totally wrong, even to the point where their tone of voice changes to a mocking one when they repeat what someone else said. Things also get exaggerated by people with this tendency.
Too many people go rushing to the court for a divorce too easily, and too many people throw out the term "abuse" too easily. Marriage used to be for life; you only split up if someone was cheating or beating. Maybe I'm too old-fashioned for the way people are nowadays.


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## PrettyHappyOverall (Apr 19, 2013)

For the record, my wife gives me the silent treatment a minimum of every 3 days, to the point of not even answering a question, and being ignored is one of my biggest pet peeves. You don't see me racing for the divorce lawyer, or complaining on a message board. It isn't abuse, it is just her. She has a thousand other qualities that make up for it, and if I ditched her and got someone else I'd find something about that person as well. That is just how it is.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

PrettyHappyOverall said:


> For the record, my wife gives me the silent treatment a minimum of every 3 days, to the point of not even answering a question, and being ignored is one of my biggest pet peeves.


So your wife digs the dagger into one of your biggest pet peeves. That doesn't sound fair to me. And this is coming from a female. 



PrettyHappyOverall said:


> You don't see me ... complaining on a message board.


Well, you DID bring it up ... on a message board. And you did say it was one of your biggest pet peeves. Not exactly blatantly complaining, but nonetheless, you are letting us know that it bugs you.




PrettyHappyOverall said:


> It isn't abuse, it is just her. She has a thousand other qualities that make up for it, and if I ditched her and got someone else I'd find something about that person as well. That is just how it is.


I'm happy to hear you can cope with the silent treatment. There are lots of folks on TAM who are complaining about this, and they consider it abuse. If you don't, that's okay. And you are right, if you ditched her and hooked up with someone else, they would have their own load of garbage you would contend with. As they would with you.

I'm glad you can deal with someone who gives you the silent treatment so often. I'm just curious as to why you don't think her way of coping with issues/problems is not a form of abuse. Hey, if you can live with it, fine.

Lots of people here have major issues with it. I just wonder how good her compensating qualities could be, if she gives you the cold shoulder "a minimum" of every three days. Yikes!


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I concur with your point, *KathyBatesel*, that WUTL *is* contributing to the disfunction in the relationship. She has acknowledged this as well by saying 'I don't want to keep behaving the same way' and 'I did this and that, what can I do differently/better in the future', etc.
> 
> *I don't think I've ever said otherwise...?*
> 
> ...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

PrettyHappyOverall said:


> For the record, my wife gives me the silent treatment a minimum of every 3 days, to the point of not even answering a question, and being ignored is one of my biggest pet peeves. You don't see me racing for the divorce lawyer, or complaining on a message board. It isn't abuse, it is just her. She has a thousand other qualities that make up for it, and if I ditched her and got someone else I'd find something about that person as well. That is just how it is.


Just because YOU have a high tolerance for bullsh!t does NOT mean that everyone else does or should! Maybe you dont mind someone mistreating you because, well, "thats just her". That is YOUR issue. WUTL has hit her bullsh!t limit, after years of dealing with unhappiness, and she has every right to do what she feels is best for her, and her mental and emotional well being. 

What is lacking within YOU that makes you feel that you dont deserve better treatment? What gives YOU the right to think that everyone else should live their life the way YOU do? Fact is, you ARE on a message board, so there must be some kind of problem that prompted you to seek out a place like this. Wallow in your own misery, but dont expect others to do the same.


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