# Wife is going to see a male gynecologist...I'm upset..Advice please



## Jack I

I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


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## Amplexor

Jack I said:


> For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


My wife has always seen male OBGYNs. Doesn't bother me a bit. She is actually more comfortable with a male doctor in that department.


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## dblkman

well if nothing inappropriate has happened with this doctor what is the problem? after all your wife is NOT the only female he has examined, that is why he spent years in school to do. Heck if he didn't have any female patients he wouldn't be in practice. Think you may be a bit over the top on this one dude! Unless like I said there has been a history between the two.


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## IrishGirlVA

I have seen both men and women gyno's. I prefer women because they have a nicer bedside manner and know how unpleasant the experience is. Also, I believe women doctors do not need another person in the exam room whereas male doctors do. I don't need a freaking audience. LOL 

In my opinion, the decision between you and your wife should be based on who feels more strongly about it. It sounds like you do and your wife should be more understanding of your feelings. She doesn't need to agree but at least understand. 

Has she given you a legitamate reason for wanting to see a male doctor or is she just being defiant out of spite? If the latter, you have more issues than this one, my friend.


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## bailingout

Jack I said:


> Ladies how do you feel about this?QUOTE]
> 
> No problem for me. I've seen the same male gyno for as long as I can remember and he delivered my child. Plus there is always a nurse in there while he's examining me.
> 
> Don't let it bother you, it's his job, he sees women's uhmmm all day long. It's no biggie.


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## Rayloveshiswife

My wife sees a male gynecologists and says she would not go to a female. As to if it bothers me. I never thought about till now. No, it doesn't. A male doctor also delivered but our kids and tied her tubes too. 

I would just let it go and apalogize to your wife. He is a professional just doing his job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor

My dad's a gynecologist - YouTube


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## jdd

Is there something going on in your relationship that this makes you feel insecure?

Is there some reason to think the doctor would cross professional boundaries? Much of the time a female nurse is present for exams / procedures on women, it's not legally required, but is policy in many offices.


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## COGypsy

A doctor is a doctor. Beyond the world of fetish porn, I can pretty much guarantee you that no woman was ever overcome with lust and seduced by someone spreading her lady bits with a plastic vice and poking around with a bristle brush--I don't care how deft they are!


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## 3Xnocharm

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


Seriously?? No offense, but grow up and get over it.


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## T&T

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


Wow! Maybe she should see a male lawyer instead. :rofl: J/K


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## Blondilocks

I've been examined by male and female doctors. No difference. Also, dated a male gynecologist and (rest assured) he was no better in the sack than other men. Our private parts are just parts to them.


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## pollywog

What? Why should it matter what doctor she sees? I have seen both male and female but prefer a female. The doctors are professionals and see all kinds. Unless there is a something going on with this doctor I doubt you have anything to worry about. You sound a lot like my first husband - jealous over something there is no need to be most likely.


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## John Lee

Female doctors and nurses have examined pretty much every body part I own and I have never found any of it even an iota sexual. The same is likely true for a woman with a male gyno.


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## thunderstruck

My W saw a male gyno earlier in our marriage, and he delivered our two kids. 

Let it go. This is not the place to make your stand. 

If you're 40+ you could get her back by getting violated at your yearly by a female GP.


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## CASE_Sensitive

Is she allowed to have a male masseuse?


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## nogutsnoglory

wow all, nice to see everyone must feel as we do about everything.. Grow up is the advice? 
KInd of natural for a guy to not want a man to have himself a birds eye view of what we feel as special to us only. I can take it or leave it, but if my wife asked or demanded a preference, my answer would be a woman Dr. please. 
Sure he is probably of the 99.9% of good honest gyno's. I think we are not looking at this from his POV. This was not out of the blue and he told her how he felt about it before. Now she out of the blue is going against how he feels and there appears to be no good reason for it, as she was previously (I assume) using a female Dr. He does not like it and it makes him uncomfortable. What is the big deal? She has 2 choices and one makes her husbands skin crawl and she is choosing to do it anyway. 
If you are controlling her in other ways I can understand the rather rude comments, but if this is just a boundary you have that protects your feelings, then she should be able to talk with you at minimum and to a degree show you some respect.
I honestly am fine with a male gyno, I will not stand for my wife to get a massage done by a male. My feelings are a gyno is a Dr. and his job is your health. A masseuse has a job to make you feel good and does it with their hands all over your body. That is a boundary for me. No other male is allowed to pleasure my wife's body but me. Call me whatever you want but my wife understands that I would not like it and respects it.
I think you are justified to tell her how you feel, I would be more worried about what is going on with your marriage that you communicating how it makes you feel seems to mean nothing to her.


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## Blondilocks

thunderstruck said:


> My W saw a male gyno earlier in our marriage, and he delivered our two kids.
> 
> Let it go. This is not the place to make your stand.
> 
> If you're 40+ you could get her back by getting violated at your yearly by a female GP.


Sad to say but 'getting violated' is exactly how a PAP test feels. It doesn't matter if it's conducted by a man or a woman - it's not fun.


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## CH

My doctor is female she grabs my package and feels all around every year (older now a days). My wife doesn't seem to mind.


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## Rayloveshiswife

Guess its about unanamous, you owe her an apology.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badcompany

I never got to have a nurse examine my junk, but the guy looks at vag all day long and could lose his job and license if it went beyond professional so I wouldn't sweat it. I do agree if she is choosing to do so out of spite there is more issues there.


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## Writer

Jack I said:


> I'Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?


It doesn't bother me one way or another. I had both a male gynecologist and a female one. One of them delivered my baby and diagnosed me with preeclampsia while I was pregnant and moderate dysplasia and preformed surgery after I gave birth, and the other one diagnosed me with PCOS. 

I found that the male doctor had a better bedside manner. he took the time to explain things to me. When I asked that means that I have PCOS, she replied flippantly, "you do have multiple cysts on your ovaries."

If by a miracle I do get pregnant again, i would go to the male one again. He is one of the only doctors who are equipped for high risk pregnancies.


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## KanDo

Wow,

I recommend you see a female psychiatrist ;-)

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## COGypsy

All humor aside, the most important thing is to see the best doctor you can. When I was going back and forth between clinics for a cancer scare/surgery last year, my first question when I was scheduling was what the doctor's specialty area was, their faculty rank and how often they were in clinic. To me, I wanted to be sure the person that I saw specialized in what I had--I didn't give a flip if they were the best in the country at anything else at all. I also wanted someone that was experienced and that they were primarily a clinician, not a researcher. Beyond that, they could have been male, female or Barney the dinosaur.


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## southern wife

I've seen a male dr. for many years, pretty much all of my adulthood. It's no big deal; it's his job. I'm just more comfortable with a man down there than another woman........JMO!

If my hubs were upset about a man (dr) digging in my crotch ONE TIME A YEAR, we'd have issues.


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## EleGirl

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


What you should be concerned about is that your wife is seeing the best gynecologist she can find. The gender of that gynecologist does not matter.

Its not a date, it's a medical check up. You are out of line trying to restrict what doctor she sees because it's a male.


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## SimplyAmorous

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


I have seen Male and Female Gyno's and in my opinion, whomever is best "with the Knife" is who gets me in the stirrups.. and I do ask around. ... I had all C-sections and THIS was my biggest concern.. 

In fact..my preferred Male Gyno had a bad bedside manner...but his Reputation for what he did, even saving a friend of mine's life...was tremendous... His personality basically SUCKED.. yet I wanted him for my Sections.. and true to form...they were all a breeze...though he only did 2 of the 6. 

A woman is in that office how many minutes for a visit...it's nothing at all to be concerned about. That's HIS Job. He is not thinking of taking advantage of your wife.


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## hopelessromantic1

I would be shocked if my husband had issue with me seeing a male gyno. Unless I was some kind of nympho who was going to flirt with him while he was down there. Are you just looking to pick a fight, or are you honestly worried that something will happen?


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## thunderstruck

southern wife said:


> If my hubs were upset about a man (dr) digging in my crotch ONE TIME A YEAR, we'd have issues.


Nice. :toast:


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## PBear

How are you going to make sure the female doc isn't a lesbian?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

It might be a problem if he was that cute doc that she tells all her friends about


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## EleGirl

hopelessromantic1 said:


> I would be shocked if my husband had issue with me seeing a male gyno. Unless I was some kind of nympho who was going to flirt with him while he was down there. Are you just looking to pick a fight, or are you honestly worried that something will happen?


Perhaps Jack does not realize how completely anti-sexy an gyno visit is. If there were ever a turn off, that's it.


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## EleGirl

Do gay men get jealous if they boyfriend goes to a male proctologist? :scratchhead:


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## Amplexor

EleGirl said:


> Do gay men get jealous if they boyfriend goes to a male proctologist? :scratchhead:


Only if the protologist has both his hands on the patient's shoulders when he does the exam!


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## Disenchanted

It's funny we (my friends and I) have long joked about being a "freelance gyno" etc.

But in reality, hard as it may be to imagine, if I did that all day long I know I'd get sick of looking at that sh!t. I mean I really feel bad for the wife of a male gyno.

And I can't for the life of me see how any woman could get turned on by that sh!t, OMG.

Probably the safest place in the world for a man's wife to be, how unsexy.


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## T&T

EleGirl said:


> Perhaps Jack does not realize how completely anti-sexy an gyno visit is. If there were ever a turn off, that's it.


About as much fun as a colonoscopy, I would imagine.


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## southern wife

thunderstruck said:


> Nice. :toast:


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## Disenchanted

It's also funny to think of the guy that goes into that field with high hopes, winds up in a low income area taking care of unclean people who don't know what hygiene is or can't see/reach to clean.

YUCK.


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## Writer

The weird thing though is that the wife of my male gynecologist was his patient. 

However, being poked and prodded at, as sexy as it sounds, is anything but. Even if there is a male doctor, usually, there will be a female nurse in the room with him.


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## thunderstruck

...another thread quickly goes flying off the rails.


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## richie33

Advice...get over it.


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## Shiksa

My gyno was at my wedding. In addition to being my doctor, he went to medical school with my dad. I saw him a week later and it was different reminiscing about my wedding while getting a pap smear. good times! No, my H doesn't think it weird. Its a part of being a doctor's family.


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## Amplexor

thunderstruck said:


> ...another thread quickly goes flying off the rails.



Yeah, I know. I'm still trying to get the image of Barney with a speculum out of my head.


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## COGypsy

Amplexor said:


> Yeah, I know. I'm still trying to get the image of Barney with a speculum out of my head.


You're welcome  

I like to think I'm just a little laser beam of sunshine, burning images into the heads of all I meet!


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## mablenc

I've moved around I have had both genders nothing has been different in regards to bedside manner. What you should be is happy that your wife is taking care of her health. I don't understand why you are upset. It's a normal thing. They will take her vitals then he will examine her normally both gender will have a nurse present. it takes only a few minutes. You feel just like a turkey getting prepared for thanksgiving 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Disenchanted

mablenc said:


> You feel just like a turkey getting prepared for thanksgiving
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OMFG there's a visual I could've done without.

How sexy :rofl:


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## mablenc

That's exactly how you feel  I actually apologize to my turkey each year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan

OP, if your wife intentionally went out and found a male ob/gyn just because you told her you wouldn't like that, then there is a problem in your marriage. However, if your wife went out and found the best ob/gyn she could find based on his specialty, education level, board certifications, and reputation with women she knows, then there's a problem in your imagination. 

My current ob/gyn is female. My last one was male. I'm trying to imagine anything less of a turn-on than having that portly, bespectacled, white-headed gentleman perform my pelvic exam while we talk about his grandchildren.....but, frankly, I'm at a loss.


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## staarz21

I have been seen by both male and female. Honestly, there is no difference. You're uncomfortable and the whole experience isn't exactly like he's down there to cop a feel. Paps and pelvic exams are kind of uncomfortable physically. I couldn't imagine your wife getting any sort of pleasure from it, and I seriously doubt after the thousands of vaginas the gyno has seen, that he would even remotely think of it as hot.


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## Red Sonja

Male or female, I don’t care … a good doctor is a good doctor. I just wish those damn speculum didn’t have to be popped open after insertion … effing ouch!! And don’t get me started on those long scraper things they use to collect samples for testing.

Yeah, such an erotic experience … NOT!!


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## waiwera

Wow... this is like something out of the dark ages or the some middle eastern country where the women have no contact with any men other than family.

OP you really need to get a grip here....

You sound weak and insecure.. why are you so insecure?


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## Jack I

waiwera said:


> Wow... this is like something out of the dark ages or the some middle eastern country where the women have no contact with any men other than family.
> 
> OP you really need to get a grip here....
> 
> You sound weak and insecure.. why are you so insecure?


I'm not insecure at all.I'm just not found of the idea.


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## staarz21

Jack I said:


> I'm not insecure at all.I'm just not found of the idea.


What part makes you uneasy? He is a doctor. Is it just that he has a penis? Or do they know each other? Do they speak outside of a professional manner?


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## waiwera

Jack I said:


> I'm not insecure at all.I'm just not found of the idea.


Really...honestly?
That's not what your posts sound like.

What is there 'not to be fond of' about this?

Do you think of it as something sexual? 

There is nothing remotely sexy about having a pap smear (for most women)...quite the opposite in fact.


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## Jack I

staarz21 said:


> What part makes you uneasy? He is a doctor. Is it just that he has a penis? Or do they know each other? Do they speak outside of a professional manner?


No they don't know each other at all.


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## Jack I

waiwera said:


> Really...honestly?
> That's not what your posts sound like.
> 
> What is there 'not to be fond of' about this?
> 
> Do you think of it as something sexual?
> 
> There is nothing remotely sexy about having a pap smear (for most women)...quite the opposite in fact.


I'm not fond of some guy looking at my wife's vagina.And thinking about who knows what while he's doing it..Honestly, what makes a guy choose this as a profession?


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## Prodigal

Jack I said:


> I'm not insecure at all.I'm just not found of the idea.


I don't buy that. Not one minute. 

We are talking about a medical doctor. 

Nope. You are insecure. If you aren't, then tell me why you don't like the idea.


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## Prodigal

Jack I said:


> Honestly, what makes a guy choose this as a profession?


Honestly???? Who the heck do you think was looking at vaginas prior to women being more accepted into medical school???

I had the same gyno for years. Why did he choose the profession? Because he wanted to deliver children into this world. He also practiced medicine, and attended medical school, when far fewer women were practicing.

Get real.


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## T&T

Jack I said:


> I'm not fond of some guy looking at my wife's vagina.And thinking about who knows what while he's doing it..Honestly, what makes a guy choose this as a profession?


Jack, this thinking is very insecure. Good Lord, we're talking about a DOCTOR here, not a bartender. 

FYI, I keep track of my wife's appointments because she hates going to these appointments and I don't blame her. And yes, he's male. Who cares!

I had a female ultrasound tech taking a look at my baggage. It was not a sexy situation. lol


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## A_lady0430

Let me first say a trip to the Gynecologist whether one's doctor is male or female is no picnic. A pap smear is invasive and uncomfortable like crazy! I literally drag myself to an appointment every year keeping in mind that my health is not only important for me but also for the sake of my daughter. 

That being said.......

Chill out there is nothing wrong with your wive seeing a male Gynecologist, Doctors are 100% professionals they way the conduct medical procedures unless this particular doctor has had a history or malpractice suite you have nothing to worry about. You can actually check his records via internet they are public. Just google his name and check him out to put your mind at ease. 


Hope this helps


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## Giro flee

Medical personnel are male and female. You want the most qualified, regardless of gender. Have you been in the hospital lately? Half of the nurses are male, the technician who did my last mammogram was male. I had my last child at a teaching hospital, there were at least twelve people all watching the baby being born, it never crossed my mind to be worried about it.

Maybe you can't imagine looking at female parts without getting turned on, but it truly is the case with people who look at body parts all day long, year after year. These situations just are not sexy, for the staff or patient.


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## chillymorn

I'm not a gyno .......but I'll take a look!


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## lapdog

My wife has seen male obgyn for 26 years of our marriage, I don't see a problem.


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## staarz21

Um. I'm thinking guys don't become gynos to look at hot poon all day. Do you know how many nasty v jays show up in a gyno office? There is a forum somewhere where (unfortunately) interns ans residents are talking some pretty nasty stuff about how gross it is sometimes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

I prefer female doctors, it's just what I'm comfortable with. I figure she has a better idea of how everything feels and isn't going to shove the damn speculum in. 

I do get massages from male therapists and I'm naked under a sheet. My h has no issues with that. 

Males can think what they want about your wife at any time. OBs have seen so many and it's so clinical, plus there's a female staff member in the room. I'm guessing he's thinking "how can I avoid malpractice? What drugs can I prescribe her? Why is my golf swing off? Did I remember to turn off my cell phone?"

And not "my god that is the sexiest cervical mucus I've ever seen."


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## Rugs

Jack, man, a Dr. ??? Are you young or Amish, Muslim,.... or what.

I am only comfortable with male Dr.'s. The reason is, female Dr.'s assume they know "how I feel". I must feel (in their mind) like they do even though I don't. If I tell a male how I feel, they have to believe me because they have no idea how I feel. A female will compare me to herself and may not believe me.

I only have males cut my hair because when a female cuts my hair, I end up having the same haircut she does. 

Make sense??

This is irrational thinking on your part IMO.


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## Runs like Dog

My urologist is a woman.


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## Red Sonja

diwali123 said:


> And not "my god that is the sexiest cervical mucus I've ever seen."


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## manfromlamancha

Jack I said:


> I'm not fond of some guy looking at my wife's vagina.And thinking about who knows what while he's doing it..Honestly, what makes a guy choose this as a profession?


Jack, I really do understand your sentiment here and to be honest, it is a good question to ask. In the UK, we recently had a few male gymnosperm outed for some in appropriate behaviour and I am sure there is a small percentage have engaged in this profession for the wrong reasons. Which is why it is important to check this guy out especially with other female patients (something your wife could do or may already have done). On the other hand, when you go to med school, you pick the area you specialise in based on any combination of number of factors - you may be particularly interested in a certain practice area, you may be particularly good at something, or by far the most popular in addition to the others, your chances of being successful and earning a good living - seeing as half the population is female, not a bad choice of profession. Also you should look at the other side of this, it is kind of involved and not as quick as say, seeing patients as a general practitioner ( and may even be messier - sorry ladies). So, I would go with the general consensus here in that unless you have reason to doubt, I would drop this. In any case you should verify that he has been checked out. Also it is a form of insecurity that many of us males have so don't be too worried about - learn to deal with it and overcome it by securing your relationship with your wife. Good luck!


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## manfromlamancha

manfromlamancha said:


> Jack, I really do understand your sentiment here and to be honest, it is a good question to ask. In the UK, we recently had a few male *gymnosperm* outed for some in appropriate behaviour and I am sure there is a small percentage have engaged in this profession for the wrong reasons. Which is why it is important to check this guy out especially with other female patients (something your wife could do or may already have done). On the other hand, when you go to med school, you pick the area you specialise in based on any combination of number of factors - you may be particularly interested in a certain practice area, you may be particularly good at something, or by far the most popular in addition to the others, your chances of being successful and earning a good living - seeing as half the population is female, not a bad choice of profession. Also you should look at the other side of this, it is kind of involved and not as quick as say, seeing patients as a general practitioner ( and may even be messier - sorry ladies). So, I would go with the general consensus here in that unless you have reason to doubt, I would drop this. In any case you should verify that he has been checked out. Also it is a form of insecurity that many of us males have so don't be too worried about - learn to deal with it and overcome it by securing your relationship with your wife. Good luck!


Sorry that should say "gynos" - damn Freudian auto correct!


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## PBear

manfromlamancha said:


> Jack, I really do understand your sentiment here and to be honest, it is a good question to ask. In the UK, we recently had a few male gymnosperm outed for some in appropriate behaviour and I am sure there is a small percentage have engaged in this profession for the wrong reasons. Which is why it is important to check this guy out especially with other female patients (something your wife could do or may already have done). On the other hand, when you go to med school, you pick the area you specialise in based on any combination of number of factors - you may be particularly interested in a certain practice area, you may be particularly good at something, or by far the most popular in addition to the others, your chances of being successful and earning a good living - seeing as half the population is female, not a bad choice of profession. Also you should look at the other side of this, it is kind of involved and not as quick as say, seeing patients as a general practitioner ( and may even be messier - sorry ladies). So, I would go with the general consensus here in that unless you have reason to doubt, I would drop this. In any case you should verify that he has been checked out. Also it is a form of insecurity that many of us males have so don't be too worried about - learn to deal with it and overcome it by securing your relationship with your wife. Good luck!


There's also been inappropriate behaviour by bankers, plumbers, dentists, baristas... Are you going to investigate every man your wife comes in contact with? At some point, you have to trust your spouse to control her inflamed loins, and keep the goodies safe for you.

C


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## Starstarfish

> Who the heck do you think was looking at vaginas prior to women being more accepted into medical school???


To be fair, before this idea started that somehow only the male-only professionals (aka doctors) should be qualified to look at vaginas, the majority of your female anatomy-related care was taken care by midwives. So - you went from female only-care, to male-only care, to now having a mixture. 

But does she have a similiar say, OP, are you not allowed to have any female nurses, PAs, or doctors looking at "your stuff?" Do you visit a male proctologist to make her feel better?



> I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.


What does "it wasn't going to happen" exactly mean? Were you going to physically prevent her from going? Cancel the health insurance so she couldn't go?


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## krismimo

And trust us there is nothing sexy about being propped up in a cold A** table and you being exposed to anybody talking to you and your lady parts and on top of that you hope nothing is wrong down there. Plus I notice a lot of offices now have a nurse or a woman there to assist with the doctor but I also think they do it as a liability thing. I don't like saying this about people but you sound a tad controlling especially since she is trying to make sure she is healthy.


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## waiwera

chillymorn said:


> I'm not a gyno .......but I'll take a look!


:rofl: 
You're too funny!

This is not porn pu$$y so put away your white coat and stethoscope!

A good percentage will have thrush, bacterial infections, bleeding or otherwise smelly and leaky... the rest will be pregnant or menopausal.

Have you seen a birth and the aftermath?

This is not a glamourous or sexy job IMO!


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## diwali123

Runs like Dog said:


> My urologist is a woman.


My husband's is too. She did a quick exam while I was in the room. I just looked at something else. And then later I was like "look bîtch! I know you think that was the finest flaccid penis you have ever seen in your life and you were trying to turn him on with your talk about testicular varicose veins but let me tell
you something!!! He's mine!!!'"


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## diwali123

waiwera said:


> :rofl:
> You're too funny!
> 
> This is not porn pu$$y so put away your white coat and stethoscope!
> 
> A good percentage will have thrush, bacterial infections, bleeding or otherwise smelly and leaky... the rest will be pregnant or menopausal.
> 
> Have you seen a birth and the aftermath?
> 
> This is not a glamourous or sexy job IMO!


Not to mention odd tattoos and piercings, scars and hair weirdness.


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## 6301

Jack I said:


> I'm not fond of some guy looking at my wife's vagina.And thinking about who knows what while he's doing it..Honestly, what makes a guy choose this as a profession?


 Got news for you dude. He's not looking at your wife's vagina. he looking at a couple hundred dollars for the visit. This guy has seen so many vagina's that one looks the same to him. 

You got any kids? If so have you been there when they were born? Think that's sexy? I've been there and if it wasn't for the fact that it was my kids being born, I would have thought I was watching the movie Alien. It's not sexy and I'm sure your wife isn't real thrilled with some doctor be it man or woman running his/her arm up in her. I'm sure she can think of a couple dozen places she would rather be.


----------



## TikiKeen

Jack, go get your wife's mascara out of her makup drawer. Now open it and look at the applicator, the brushy thing. *That* looks like what will scrape your wife's cervix...to see if she has cancer, or a bacterial infection. It's about _health_ not sex or attraction. Also, a speculum resembles salad tongs. There is nothing remotely sexy about it.

Like a recent poster said, any man can think whatever the he*l he wants about her, any time, any place. You have no control over what any other human thinks. 

In my state, an opposite-sex nurse, PA or MA is required by law to be present for all exams, period. 

Your distrust of your wife is telling, and this isn't about her; it's about your fear.

If my H laid that line on me and tried to ban me from my most trusted health provider, I'd seriously question his self-esteem and possibly his sanity.


----------



## diwali123

TikiKeen said:


> Jack, go get your wife's mascara out of her makup drawer. Now open it and look at the applicator, the brushy thing. *That* looks like what will scrape your wife's cervix...to see if she has cancer, or a bacterial infection. It's about _health_ not sex or attraction. Also, a speculum resembles salad tongs. There is nothing remotely sexy about it.
> 
> Like a recent poster said, any man can think whatever the he*l he wants about her, any time, any place. You have no control over what any other human thinks.
> 
> In my state, an opposite-sex nurse, PA or MA is required by law to be present for all exams, period.
> 
> Your distrust of your wife is telling, and this isn't about her; it's about your fear.
> 
> If my H laid that line on me and tried to ban me from my most trusted health provider, I'd seriously question his self-esteem and possibly his sanity.


"I think she really likes me, she had her legs wide open!!! Don't you think she likes me? I think she's a ****....nurse? Didn't you see that?"


----------



## Catherine602

Jack you would not pick this profession but some men go into it for the same reasons that women select this specialty. The practice is mostly surgical and delivering babies. That's where the money is. 

If male doc's were aroused by looking at veejay's, I am certain the overwhelming majority of these men would find it humiliating to see them all day. 

Men can be honorable, dedicated and professional you know. If the doc has a good rep, than that is what he is.

BTW, there is always a female assistant present in the room. It's risk avoidance and smart. Don't make a big deal of it Jack. Go with her and accompany her into the examination room.


----------



## krismimo

diwali123 said:


> My husband's is too. She did a quick exam while I was in the room. I just looked at something else. And then later I was like "look bîtch! I know you think that was the finest flaccid penis you have ever seen in your life and you were trying to turn him on with your talk about testicular varicose veins but let me tell
> you something!!! He's mine!!!'"


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

You are too funny!


----------



## confusedFather

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this has already been said or not.

It seems to me the real problem is not that she is going to a male gyno but that she doesn't care that it bothers you.


----------



## TikiKeen

Perhaps she does care, but realizes that it's not her actions that are the issue (except in discussion). 

Jack, what have the discussions about this been like? H=For how long have you been bothered _and_ telling her you're jealous? Also, how do you communicate this to her? It's hard to help when all we see are what appear to be over-the-top fear-based jealous reactions.


----------



## Disenchanted

diwali123 said:


> "I think she really likes me, she had her legs wide open!!! Don't you think she likes me? I think she's a ****....nurse? Didn't you see that?"


Lol you remind me of my vasectomy. I have a grumpy old man urologist, but for whatever reason when I went in for the big V there was a nursing class there to observe. OMFG, they're like "you don't mind do you?"

"uhhh uhh uh"

"Really nice job shaving!"

Good thing they loaded me up with drugs first lol.

Surprisingly I didn't get any dates out of the deal.


----------



## Disenchanted

So here's the scariest thing for me.

I've mentioned elsewhere on TAM that I have a crush on my Dr. She's super hot, treated me very well when she learned about my wife's infidelity, and shared the story of her father's infidelity. She also said a bunch of stuff that a Dr. probably shouldn't say, which I won't repeat.

Anyway, she's absolutely gorgeous and I mentioned "well now that I'm 40, scary as it is, do I need to check my prostate?"

Talk about a scary moment. She's like "nah we'll do it when your 50, you're fine".

PHEW!

Man what if I like it?

LOL


----------



## BFGuru

Let me ask you a question...
if you end up with an issue requiring a nurse to use a cathetar multiple times daily on you in order to get you to urinate, or need to see a urologist, will you make sure only male care givers perform this task?

If so, have fun finding the help as most nurses are female. 

Or would you be like most of my young male patients and flip out if a man looks at your precious private parts?

Trust me, I work in healthcare. I work with spinal cord patients, and our job is to make you pee because your body doesn't do it due to the nerve damage. As such, I've seen more penises than a prostitute and more vaginas than Hugh Heffner. Trust me when I say, if it is not commited to me, emotionally and physically, the genitals do NOTHING for me. They are nothing more than a piece of anatomy I have to get to function properly lest the patient die. 

Same goes for gynecologists. They don't get into it for the pvssy. They get into it for the miracle of life. Keeping women's birth canals healthy is part of the package that no one really likes to do, but someone has to do it. 

As a woman, I can tell you female gynecologists are PAINFUL. They have this attitude of "suck it up we all have to deal with it". And they ram their hands up with no pity. Males, however think "well, I wouldn't want something shoved inside me, so I guess I'll be gentle". Their bed side manners are much easier to cope with. 

So, get over yourself. Recognize this is a professional health care provider who could care less about your idea wh0redome. He has a job to do, he takes at least one other nurse in with him for accountability purposes, and you are putting undue stress on your wife for daring try and make sure she is cancer free.


----------



## diwali123

Disenchanted said:


> So here's the scariest thing for me.
> 
> I've mentioned elsewhere on TAM that I have a crush on my Dr. She's super hot, treated me very well when she learned about my wife's infidelity, and shared the story of her father's infidelity. She also said a bunch of stuff that a Dr. probably shouldn't say, which I won't repeat.
> 
> Anyway, she's absolutely gorgeous and I mentioned "well now that I'm 40, scary as it is, do I need to check my prostate?"
> 
> Talk about a scary moment. She's like "nah we'll do it when your 50, you're fine".
> 
> PHEW!
> 
> Man what if I like it?
> 
> LOL


It'll be more comfortable liking it if it's a woman than a man right?


----------



## diwali123

BFGuru said:


> Let me ask you a question...
> if you end up with an issue requiring a nurse to use a cathetar multiple times daily on you in order to get you to urinate, or need to see a urologist, will you make sure only male care givers perform this task?
> 
> If so, have fun finding the help as most nurses are female.
> 
> Or would you be like most of my young male patients and flip out if a man looks at your precious private parts?
> 
> Trust me, I work in healthcare. I work with spinal cord patients, and our job is to make you pee because your body doesn't do it due to the nerve damage. As such, I've seen more penises than a prostitute and more vaginas than Hugh Heffner. Trust me when I say, if it is not commited to me, emotionally and physically, the genitals do NOTHING for me. They are nothing more than a piece of anatomy I have to get to function properly lest the patient die.
> 
> Same goes for gynecologists. They don't get into it for the pvssy. They get into it for the miracle of life. Keeping women's birth canals healthy is part of the package that no one really likes to do, but someone has to do it.
> 
> As a woman, I can tell you female gynecologists are PAINFUL. They have this attitude of "suck it up we all have to deal with it". And they ram their hands up with no pity. Males, however think "well, I wouldn't want something shoved inside me, so I guess I'll be gentle". Their bed side manners are much easier to cope with.
> 
> So, get over yourself. Recognize this is a professional health care provider who could care less about your idea wh0redome. He has a job to do, he takes at least one other nurse in with him for accountability purposes, and you are putting undue stress on your wife for daring try and make sure she is cancer free.


Who is getting fisted by their gynecologist? I keep seeing mention of this. The only time I had a medical person with their whole hand up their I was in labor at seven or was giving birth.


----------



## TikiKeen

My dad and H both say it's not pleasant regardless of who does the exam.

And BFGuru, thank you. My H resisted cathing our kid for a full year until I chewed him out. He chose this, the child did not. 

Oddly, H was the one who sent a routinely inappropriately-dressed F home therapist packing. She had a nasty divorce, and gradually began dressing overtly seductively as the months went on. He asked gently if she'd mind covering her cleavage at work (on the floor wrangling a kid), and she looked insulted, then got sleazier the next few weeks. H said he couldn't be in the house with her any more, and I pulled her from our case. CPS was on our doorstep with a retaliatory claim of neglect within days. She was fired for inappropriate behavior with another family months later, and has since been fired from one more agency. No findings in our case, of course.

*That* is an extreme case of providers gone wrong. Unless OP's wife's OB/GYN is already acting creepy, there isn't a provider problem.


----------



## EleGirl

BFGuru said:


> As a woman, I can tell you female gynecologists are PAINFUL. They have this attitude of "suck it up we all have to deal with it". And they ram their hands up with no pity. Males, however think "well, I wouldn't want something shoved inside me, so I guess I'll be gentle". Their bed side manners are much easier to cope with.


I've been to a lot of gynecologists in my 64 years.. both male and female. Yet I've never once had this experience you are talking about with females docs. Geez


----------



## diwali123

EleGirl said:


> I've been to a lot of gynecologists in my 64 years.. both male and female. Yet I've never once had this experience you are talking about with females docs. Geez


Like I said I'm not sure about the hand thing. I've always had a speculum. I thought that was standard in a pelvic exam.


----------



## P51Geo1980

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


Good God I hope you're a troll!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BFGuru

diwali123 said:


> Who is getting fisted by their gynecologist? I keep seeing mention of this. The only time I had a medical person with their whole hand up their I was in labor at seven or was giving birth.


Every healthy woman exam I've been to, they reach inside to feel for the ovaries. One hand on abdomen, one hand inside. It is the most painful experience of the exam. They are feeling for position and for cysts.



EleGirl said:


> I've been to a lot of gynecologists in my 64 years.. both male and female. Yet I've never once had this experience you are talking about with females docs. Geez


I have as well, though not 64 years worth and I've seen it repeatedly. Actually I've only had one female gynecologist that was gentle. She was a resident, and just starting out, so maybe that's where her bedside manner was different.


----------



## TikiKeen

My first GYN was a male...Dr. Bender. I sh!t you not! He was friends with my parents and I had a crush on his son.

My first (and only) visit to him, his nurse walked me through what would happen, and left so I could change. They both walked in 5 minutes later as he said "Dr. Bender at your cervix!" I spent the whole time silently berating his cute son in my brain for having such a dweeb of a dad.

I began going to Planned Parenthood the next visit.


----------



## golfergirl

BFGuru said:


> Every healthy woman exam I've been to, they reach inside to feel for the ovaries. One hand on abdomen, one hand inside. It is the most painful experience of the exam. They are feeling for position and for cysts.
> 
> 
> 
> I have as well, though not 64 years worth and I've seen it repeatedly. Actually I've only had one female gynecologist that was gentle. She was a resident, and just starting out, so maybe that's where her bedside manner was different.


Yes I get that too. One hand in other hand outside and the feel the ovaries. Just had my yearly - trust me NOT a turn on. Now if OP's wife starts booking weekly physicals, time to worry!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RandomDude

:rofl: @ thread


----------



## PBear

Disenchanted said:


> So here's the scariest thing for me.
> 
> I've mentioned elsewhere on TAM that I have a crush on my Dr. She's super hot, treated me very well when she learned about my wife's infidelity, and shared the story of her father's infidelity. She also said a bunch of stuff that a Dr. probably shouldn't say, which I won't repeat.
> 
> Anyway, she's absolutely gorgeous and I mentioned "well now that I'm 40, scary as it is, do I need to check my prostate?"
> 
> Talk about a scary moment. She's like "nah we'll do it when your 50, you're fine".
> 
> PHEW!
> 
> Man what if I like it?
> 
> LOL


I had an attractive female doc for awhile, and at my GF's urging, I went in for an annual physical at about 43. My GF insisted I get my prostate checked as well, so I had to request that service from my doc. And my GF also had issues with what turned out to be varicose veins on my scrotum, which involved getting felt up by the doc, and then a cute ultrasound therapist doing her business on me the next week. 

Now I've got an unattractive middle eastern male doc... :-(. I miss the good old days! Guess I shouldn't have told the GF I thought I needed to get my sperm count done too... Might have been pushing it. 

C


----------



## RandomDude

Hmmm... a hot nurse checking out my parts, boner danger!


----------



## BFGuru

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm... a hot nurse checking out my parts, boner danger!


Wouldn't be the first time they've had a boner when I was trying to do my job. Trust me, not jumping on for a ride. More disgusting than a limp one in those situations. Just let me do my job, drain your bladder, clean you up and go on my way. This is not a happy endings massage here.


----------



## RandomDude

LOL! :rofl:

I've never been examined in that way (yet), been healthy throughout my life I guess. Don't know if I could control myself though if the lady is hot lol


----------



## larry.gray

badcompany said:


> I never got to have a nurse examine my junk, but the guy looks at vag all day long and could lose his job and license if it went beyond professional so I wouldn't sweat it.


Hmmm, the doc that delivered my second lost his license for a year because he bedded one of his patients.


----------



## cursor

*AW: Wife is going to see a male gynecologist...I'm upset..Advice please*

Murica...


----------



## chillymorn

waiwera said:


> :rofl:
> You're too funny!
> 
> This is not porn pu$$y so put away your white coat and stethoscope!
> 
> A good percentage will have thrush, bacterial infections, bleeding or otherwise smelly and leaky... the rest will be pregnant or menopausal.
> 
> Have you seen a birth and the aftermath?
> 
> This is not a glamourous or sexy job IMO!


like a train wreck I'd still take a look!

morbid curoisoty.

and yes I've see a birth and a c section. Didn't bother me but didn't put me in the mood either.

maybe I would have made a good gyno!


----------



## AVR1962

I've seen both male and female docs, prefer women as they seem to understand the issues females face better than the men. As far as your feelings towards your wife choosing to see a male gyno, my thought is get over it.....there is absolutely NOTHING stimulating or sexual about these exams. Women do not like them or look fwd to them. We choose someone that we feel more comfortable and safe with.


----------



## mablenc

TikiKeen said:


> My first GYN was a male...Dr. Bender. I sh!t you not! He was friends with my parents and I had a crush on his son.
> 
> My first (and only) visit to him, his nurse walked me through what would happen, and left so I could change. They both walked in 5 minutes later as he said *"Dr. Bender at your cervix!"* I spent the whole time silently berating his cute son in my brain for having such a dweeb of a dad.
> 
> I began going to Planned Parenthood the next visit.


:rofl:


----------



## nogutsnoglory

I truly think most people here are taking this somewhere it was not intended. OP correct me if I am wrong but am I right to assume this has nothing to do with a concern of her wanting the Dr. to pleasure her or a fear of the Dr. wanting to get pleasure from doing his job. Others are assuming this and I just think that is people taking it where they want to. 
I am assuming you do not want any other man touching your wife there. Not sexually, professionally, medically. 
This makes him uncomfortable and is a rather simple request. For you all to say well the guy Dr. may be the best Gyno...really? All of a sudden there are no competent and qualified female Gyno's?
Convenient for so many to take this approach. You are all so modern and accepting and righteous. Give me a break.
He asked her to respect his comfort level and she is refusing, why?
That is the question.. Do i think there is a good reason for him to feel the way he does, for me, no, not really. Do I think he has a right to be honest with his wife and let her know of an insecurity he holds and ask her to help him with it and respect his feelings, absoF888ckinglutely. She is not willing to do that and that is the issue here. 
Now maybe his wife has cheated in the past, maybe he had a buddy that was a gyno and he does not like the comments made over a few beers...who knows..
It is an insecurity, something everyone of you has, but you condemn him for it. You condemn him for being honest about it with his wife. You do not condemn her for not caring how he feels. 
Try to be fair in assessing others. She has a right to go to the best Dr. He has a right to ask her to use a female Dr. She has a right to refuse. Don't give me the male Dr. must be the better Dr. I call BS. It is her body and her decision and even he will not argue that point. The question to be asked is why must she choose to make her H uncomfortable. Deal with that as well as why he holds this insecurity. Both are fair to be questioned for their motives.


----------



## MissFroggie

This has to be the funniest thread I've read here! I just hope that if it is a troll thread that the moderators let it continue. Excellent!


----------



## Disenchanted

nogutsnoglory said:


> I truly think most people here .......


I often say, in the Coping with Infidelity section, that the only privacy in a marriage should be when the bathroom door is shut.

I take it back.

Health issues and medical stuff is very personal and I don't think anybody has any right to tell anyone else how they should handle their own health concerns.

Absolutely ludicrous.


----------



## Disenchanted

diwali123 said:


> It'll be more comfortable liking it if it's a woman than a man right?





RandomDude said:


> Hmmm... a hot nurse checking out my parts, boner danger!


This...

I'm absolutely sure that would never happen with some grumpy old bastard, lol.

Did I mention my Dr. is HOT!!

She's also a lesbian


----------



## nogutsnoglory

Disenchanted said:


> I often say, in the Coping with Infidelity section, that the only privacy in a marriage should be when the bathroom door is shut.
> 
> I take it back.
> 
> Health issues and medical stuff is very personal and I don't think anybody has any right to tell anyone else how they should handle their own health concerns.
> 
> Absolutely ludicrous.


so you think her only choice is a male Gyno?
I have to agree, I change my mind. Woman doctors are clearly inferior, so stay out of your wife's business and tell her she should use a male Dr. 
OP what is the argument she is using for needing to see this particular Dr., is there any good reason she has given you? Or is this being done to spite you?


----------



## Starstarfish

> I am assuming you do not want any other man touching your wife there. Not sexually, professionally, medically.


Again, does he follow the same "rules?" Are no women sexually, professionally, or medically allowed to touch him "there?"

Enabling an insecurity isn't dealing with it, it's just rug sweeping. 

I still want to know what "it wasn't going to happen" means.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

Disenchanted said:


> I often say, in the Coping with Infidelity section, that the only privacy in a marriage should be when the bathroom door is shut.
> 
> I take it back.
> 
> Health issues and medical stuff is very personal and I don't think anybody has any right to tell anyone else how they should handle their own health concerns.
> 
> Absolutely ludicrous.


How is his wanting a female Gyno telling her how to handle her medical issues? The only logic here is to say there are no good, qualified female Gyno's. He is not telling her how to handle any medical issue. I am under the assumption that there are both men and woman qualified to treat her, am I wrong to assume this?


----------



## Starstarfish

> This makes him uncomfortable and is a rather simple request. For you all to say well the guy Dr. may be the best Gyno...really? All of a sudden there are no competent and qualified female Gyno's?


We can only guess as we don't know:

- Where they live
- Their finances
- Their insurance situation

So, may he be the best gyno in -their area- that takes -their insurance- maybe. Who knows. It's all just guessing on our part.

And again, does who -he- is comfortable with override who -she- may be comfortable with? Why is his opinion about this more valid?


----------



## gbrad

Personally, I don't ask any questions about when my wife goes to see that doctor. I think she sees a woman, not positive, don't care to know. Would rather not hear about the medical stuff dealing with those parts, not what I want to picture.


----------



## southern wife

thunderstruck said:


> ...another thread quickly goes flying off the rails.


:lol: Geico Commercial Three Little Pigs - Wee Weee Weeee - YouTube


----------



## southern wife

mablenc said:


> I've moved around I have had both genders nothing has been different in regards to bedside manner. What you should be is happy that your wife is taking care of her health. I don't understand why you are upset. It's a normal thing. They will take her vitals then he will examine her normally both gender will have a nurse present. it takes only a few minutes. You feel just like a turkey getting prepared for thanksgiving
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:lol: :lol: :lol: :smthumbup:


----------



## Disenchanted

nogutsnoglory said:


> How is his wanting a female Gyno telling her how to handle her medical issues? The only logic here is to say there are no good, qualified female Gyno's. He is not telling her how to handle any medical issue. I am under the assumption that there are both men and woman qualified to treat her, am I wrong to assume this?


Dude if you or anyone else gets insecure about your SO going to see a phucking Dr. you got much bigger problems then the Dr.


----------



## Disenchanted

gbrad said:


> Personally, I don't ask any questions about when my wife goes to see that doctor. I think she sees a woman, not positive, don't care to know. Would rather not hear about the medical stuff dealing with those parts, not what I want to picture.


Precisely.

I wouldn't tell my wife which feminine products to buy either.

I don't give a hoot about qualifications or anything. My wife needs to get her girl parts checked out? Go for it, I don't even want to hear about it unless she needs my help somehow.

Even then, as few details as possible please.


----------



## KanDo

nogutsnoglory said:


> .....
> ....
> Try to be fair in assessing others. She has a right to go to the best Dr. He has a right to ask her to use a female Dr. She has a right to refuse. ..


She has the right to see the professional of her choice. He can certainly request that she see a female physician. That is not what the OP wrote. He demanded it. No wonder his wife has no interest in accommodating his insecurities! And to top it off, the OP doesn't even understand that his actions are prima facia evidence of his insecurities. 

Sorry. I don't buy any of your justification of the OP.


----------



## Jack I

nogutsnoglory said:


> I am assuming you do not want any other man touching your wife there. Not sexually, professionally, medically.
> This makes him uncomfortable and is a rather simple request.


Exactly.Nobody looks at or touches my wife down there but me.I don't care if he's a doctor or not.And those of you saying doctors don't get aroused,how how would you know?I've heard stories of gynecologists getting erections.


----------



## Jack I

nogutsnoglory said:


> OP what is the argument she is using for needing to see this particular Dr., is there any good reason she has given you? Or is this being done to spite you?


She is claiming that this is the only doctor she could have seen at the particular time that she needs to fit into her schedule.


----------



## Jack I

Starstarfish said:


> .
> 
> I still want to know what "it wasn't going to happen" means.


It simply means that I was not going to allow it.And I would prevent her from going.She said she was going anyway and it's her money she's using using to go.I said yes,but you're going in my car.(We only have one car that we use,which is mine).


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I go to whatever doctor is going to listen to my concerns about my body and take me seriously. Little story for you here:
I was bleeding like crazy from my periods.For weeks at a time I'd bleed like I was on a period...anything from spotting to the heavier stuff.The pain was nearly unbearable.I couldn't walk upright most days.
My doctor at the time (FEMALE) did a d&c on me then demanded I take birth control to "regulate" my hormones.

I didn't trust her judgment and went to a new gyn surgeon. (MALE) immediately diagnosed my pain problem as endometriosis and scheduled me for a endoscopy to see where the excessive bleeding was coming from.Turns out I had a dangerously large uterine fibroid that was about to rupture.
I had emergency surgery bc of it.

Had I listened to the previous doc I might not have gotten to get surgery in time before the darn thing ruptured and I bled out.

Now,not blaming her sex on her poor diagnostic ability but had my husband at the time told me "I don't want you going to that male doctor!" I wouldn't have seen the person who ended up saving my life bc he happened to be a man.

It is your wife's decision where she goes and who she sees for gynecological care. You'll have to find a way to grow up and be ok with that. Don't be paranoid about a male doc.He might be saving her life at some point.


----------



## TikiKeen

You have serious issues, Jack. Prohibiting your wife from seeing any competent medical provider is controlling and borders on abusive, if your control prohibits her from getting adequate care in a timely manner. Prohibiting her from driving is also abusive.You do not trust her to make her own medical decisions; that is extreme.

Either you're one he*l of a troll or you need IC to break your abusive tendencies. She is your wife, not your slave, not your property. This is not modern hoopla, either. This is about having a base level of respect for the woman you vowed to love, honor and cherish.


----------



## TiggyBlue

What if she need surgery down there one day, you going to demand the surgeons female?


----------



## MissFroggie

nogutsnoglory said:


> You are all so modern and accepting and righteous. Give me a break.
> He asked her to respect his comfort level and she is refusing, why?


Because HE is not respecting HER comfort level. He also wasn't trusting her judgement or fidelity. He also disrespects her intellectual capacity to make her own choice for her own medical health.



Jack I said:


> She is claiming that this is the only doctor she could have seen at the particular time that she needs to fit into her schedule.


I think that's a valid reason. I always request a female but if they can't accommodate that at a suitable time then I'll accept a male doctor.



Jack I said:


> It simply means that I was not going to allow it.And I would prevent her from going.She said she was going anyway and it's her money she's using using to go.I said yes,but you're going in my car.(We only have one car that we use,which is mine).


You sound like quite a catch! This is mine, that is mine, the car is mine, your vagina is mine! Have you any idea how many more people will be poking and prodding her down there if she doesn't take care of her health properly? Withholding the use of the car, restricting her from going is abusive. You sound like a childish bully. Your wife is a person, not property. This kind of bs is the same used to justify rape in marriage - her vagina belongs to me attitude...no mate, her vagina is still hers!



Jack I said:


> Exactly.Nobody looks at or touches my wife down there but me.I don't care if he's a doctor or not.And those of you saying doctors don't get aroused,how how would you know?I've heard stories of gynecologists getting erections.


You'd better hurry up and qualify to do her medical checks then. Until then she should see a professional...oh, like she is planning. I've heard stories of women getting raped in taxis too, but you're happy to take the car so she has to get a cab instead.



KanDo said:


> She has the right to see the professional of her choice. He can certainly request that she see a female physician. That is not what the OP wrote. He demanded it. No wonder his wife has no interest in accommodating his insecurities! And to top it off, the OP doesn't even understand that his actions are prima facia evidence of his insecurities.


:iagree:


----------



## staarz21

What about lesbian female gynos? Omg. They might get aroused by looking at your wife!!! -sarcasm. Do you care about that? This is abusive. I feel sorry for your wife
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

A person has the right to direct their own medical care. If my wife told me I could not choose my doc, I would divorce her.

Jack, if you cannot handle your wife being seen or touched by a male medical professional, just divorce her now. Through her life she is going to see dozens of medical professionals, and some of them will be men.

I had to have an ultrasound of my nuts (twice!). Both times the ultrasound tech was female. Had my wife prohibited me having the procedures, my health would have suffered greatly. I've had full-body skin cancer inspections with a female nurse in the room taking notes for the doc. I've had surgery 5 times, and there were female nurses in the room every time. One of the surgeons was female, and is one of the very best in the state.

It is just a fact that your wife will not be able to get normal adequate medical care if you refuse to let her see a male medical provider.


----------



## MissFroggie

The OP also started a thread: "Is it appropriate for me to have sex with my wife while she's sleeping?" His post there reads: "I have wondered about this for a while.How appropriate is this?I've never actually had sex my wife while she was sleeping but I've thought about it at times.Lately I seem to be fantasizing about it more.Has any wife or husband here ever had this experience?If so,what was it like? "

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-me-have-sex-my-wife-while-shes-sleeping.html

He has very little respect for his wife...


----------



## ClimbingTheWalls

I am stunned.

I always try to see a male for such issues. I have found that they are far more gentle and considerate. Pretty much all the females I have had the misfortune to see have been quite rough and unsympathetic.

It is utterly outrageous to refuse to allow someone to see a medical practitioner of their choice. There is absolutely nothing sexy about a vaginal examination. I am sure this has been said before judging by the length of the thread but I have not read it.


----------



## MissFroggie

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> I am stunned.
> 
> I always try to see a male for such issues. I have found that they are far more gentle and considerate. Pretty much all the females I have had the misfortune to see have been quite rough and unsympathetic.
> 
> It is utterly outrageous to refuse to allow someone to see a medical practitioner of their choice. There is absolutely nothing sexy about a vaginal examination. I am sure this has been said before judging by the length of the thread but I have not read it.


You should read it - some of the posts are hilarious!! :lol:


----------



## bbdad

My advice - get over over it. As others have said, you appear to be very insecure based on your reactions. I hope you don't ever have to see a female doctor for anything. I guess you would rather have incomplete care than you see a physician of the opposite sex.

I doubt your wife is getting a thrill out of a gyno exam. I highly doubt the dr is getting a thrill out of giving her a gyno exam.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

Starstarfish said:


> Again, does he follow the same "rules?" Are no women sexually, professionally, or medically allowed to touch him "there?"
> 
> Enabling an insecurity isn't dealing with it, it's just rug sweeping.
> 
> I still want to know what "it wasn't going to happen" means.


if this is a boundary issue for his wife as well then sure. If not, I do not see the point. 
I agree though that "it wasn't going to happen" is a very controlling statement.


----------



## staarz21

Jack I said:


> It simply means that I was not going to allow it.And I would prevent her from going.She said she was going anyway and it's her money she's using using to go.I said yes,but you're going in my car.(We only have one car that we use,which is mine).


Seriously? It's YOUR car? You would prevent your wife from driving to the doctor for a NEEDED female exam? Do you realize how that sounds?


----------



## Jack I

MissFroggie said:


> The OP also started a thread: "Is it appropriate for me to have sex with my wife while she's sleeping?" His post there reads: "I have wondered about this for a while.How appropriate is this?I've never actually had sex my wife while she was sleeping but I've thought about it at times.Lately I seem to be fantasizing about it more.Has any wife or husband here ever had this experience?If so,what was it like? "
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-me-have-sex-my-wife-while-shes-sleeping.html
> 
> He has very little respect for his wife...


Well actually I was talking about ASKING my wife if it was okay to have sex with her while she was sleeping.I've always respected my wife.I never said anything about having sex with her while she was sleeping without her consent.


----------



## MissFroggie

Hang on - everyone check out his other posts!!! He had a lapdance from a stripper, he wants to know if he can have sex with his wife while she is sleeping, he refused to use a condom when she asked him to (while waiting for the pill to kick in), he insists on ejaculating in his wife's mouth even though she didn't want it... I feel very sorry for his wife living with such a selfish man with double standards. You needed to ask if getting a lapdance from a stripper was bad but you won't let your wife see a male doctor????


----------



## Jack I

staarz21 said:


> Seriously? It's YOUR car? You would prevent your wife from driving to the doctor for a NEEDED female exam? Do you realize how that sounds?


When I say It's my car,I just mean it's in my name and I pay the car note.She drives it all the time.I have nothing but the utmost respect for my wife.Some of the posters are getting the wrong idea.Sometimes it would help to look at things from my point of view as no nuts no glory did.


----------



## MissFroggie

Jack I said:


> When I say It's my car,I just mean it's in my name and I pay the car note.She drives it all the time.I have nothing but the utmost respect for my wife.Some of the posters are getting the wrong idea.Sometimes it would help to look at things from my point of view as no nuts no glory did.


One of your previous posts: 

"Random question.I got a lap dance last year from a woman at a strip club.I never told anyone about it.I was wondering,is this considered cheating?What do you guys think?Why or why not?I wondered about it when it happened,and I just watched a television show where a husband gets a lap dance and the wife gets upset.Curious to see what you all think."
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...nd-gets-lap-dance-another-woman-cheating.html

We can see it from your point of view now - you can have a secret lapdance with a stripper for your pleasure, but your wife had better not see a male doctor for her health!


----------



## staarz21

MissFroggie said:


> One of your previous posts:
> 
> "Random question.I got a lap dance last year from a woman at a strip club.I never told anyone about it.I was wondering,is this considered cheating?What do you guys think?Why or why not?I wondered about it when it happened,and I just watched a television show where a husband gets a lap dance and the wife gets upset.Curious to see what you all think."
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...nd-gets-lap-dance-another-woman-cheating.html
> 
> We can see it from your point of view now - you can have a secret lapdance with a stripper for your pleasure, but your wife had better not see a male doctor for her health!



Uh oh, someone got caught. So, it's ok for you to get a lap dance, but your wife can't go to a Dr. that happens to have a penis? Well, well, well...the plot thickens.


----------



## Disenchanted

Why don't you just go along and supervise the Dr.?


----------



## staarz21

Jack I said:


> When I say It's my car,I just mean it's in my name and I pay the car note.She drives it all the time.I have nothing but the utmost respect for my wife.Some of the posters are getting the wrong idea.Sometimes it would help to look at things from my point of view as no nuts no glory did.



The truck we have currently is in both of our names. However, the last truck we had was only in my H's name. He paid the note. I drove the truck. He drove his motorcycle. 

My husband pays the truck note on our current truck too. He would never say anything like that to me...unless he wanted to get thrown out of the house. We have one vehicle to save money since I stay at home with the boys right now. We SHARE that vehicle.


----------



## diwali123

MissFroggie said:


> One of your previous posts:
> 
> "Random question.I got a lap dance last year from a woman at a strip club.I never told anyone about it.I was wondering,is this considered cheating?What do you guys think?Why or why not?I wondered about it when it happened,and I just watched a television show where a husband gets a lap dance and the wife gets upset.Curious to see what you all think."
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...nd-gets-lap-dance-another-woman-cheating.html
> 
> We can see it from your point of view now - you can have a secret lapdance with a stripper for your pleasure, but your wife had better not see a male doctor for her health!


I feel so sorry for his wife.


----------



## staarz21

Jack, If you can explain the lap dance, I'll really try to see your side and look at it form your point of view.


----------



## Writer

Let me see if I have this right. You can go and get a *lap dance for your pleasure*, and it is alright since "no-one" knows about it. Your wife can not get *a pap smear and any other important tests for her health*. You will, also, bar her by *refusing access to your vehicle*.

Can you see what is wrong here? 

If my husband refused me care based upon insecurities and, then, he tried to bar me from that care by being controlling, he would find himself wifeless soon afterward.

I think you need to think to yourself why it is alright for you to go and get a lapdance but it isn't right for her to have a test preformed by a male doctor.


----------



## Starstarfish

> I've heard stories of gynecologists getting erections.


You've heard these stories where? 

I've heard stories of teenage boys getting erections during random times giving speeches in front of class, better cancel school too. Can you honestly say you've been in total control of every boner you've ever had?

So, OP - are you willing to take time off from work so she can have access to the car to get a different time slot? Should she take off from work to go? How much re-arranging of schedules are you willing to do to get a female Dr. appt?


----------



## Disenchanted

Starstarfish said:


> You've heard these stories where?


From the Dr. at the strip club he was at while getting his lap dances, lol.


----------



## diwali123

I worked at a public health clinic that served low income people. We had a woman come in for a Pap smear who was wearing close to a Berka. Her h insisted on being in the exam room with her. 
During the breast exam he asked the nurse if she is a lesbian.


----------



## Starstarfish

Also maybe we could wrap up some other loose threads here OP:

- How's it going after your wife lost 200 lbs?
- Is your MIL still living with you?
- Are you still fighting about condoms, withdrawal, and circumcision?
- Any more lap dances?


----------



## mablenc

Well it's normal for you to get the doctor with the available appointments. Many obgyn doctors are booked solid due them them giving prenatal care.

So you get whatever they have available. Just throwing this info out there.


----------



## mablenc

diwali123 said:


> I worked at a public health clinic that served low income people. We had a woman come in for a Pap smear who was wearing close to a Berka. Her h insisted on being in the exam room with her.
> During the breast exam he asked the nurse if she is a lesbian.


:rofl: my dad actually threw a fit when I heard I was going to go. I was just married and needed birthcontrol. He called my husband and told him he had no reason to "take a new car to the mechanic" I was mortified and mad as hell. Last time I told my mother anything.


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## kbhg

There is no difference between male and female gyno. However, if you are not comfortable about it, your wife should be more understanding because this is not a big deal. There are choices that she can make to make you feel better. Meanwhile, there are many good female gynos out there. I know wife can fight for themselves but not for things like this.


----------



## Jellybeans

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?


I would think that you were really controlling and trying to dictate who my gynecologist is.


----------



## staarz21

kbhg said:


> There is no difference between male and female gyno. However, if you are not comfortable about it, your wife should be more understanding because this is not a big deal. There are choices that she can make to make you feel better. Meanwhile, there are many good female gynos out there. I know wife can fight for themselves but not for things like this.


I'm confused by this. Wives can't fight for what? Healthcare?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TikiKeen

staarz, I fight for dessert.


----------



## Starstarfish

I think the crazy thing is - even if this is (and let's be honest, it likely is) a troll thread, it's the comments by other people in response to it that are really the scariest sometimes.


----------



## diwali123

mablenc said:


> :rofl: my dad actually threw a fit when I heard I was going to go. I was just married and needed birthcontrol. He called my husband and told him he had no reason to "take a new car to the mechanic" I was mortified and mad as hell. Last time I told my mother anything.


What? That's crazy! You should get exams whether you need birth control, are having sex or not. What a weirdo! 
What did your husband say?


----------



## MissFroggie

Disenchanted said:


> From the Dr. at the strip club he was at while getting his lap dances, lol.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## diwali123

A funny aside: 
One day the clinic was really busy and that same nurse told the female dr she had to leave to go get her Pap smear. The dr said she would just do it there if she wanted. She said cool. 

Ten minutes later we hear the dr scream and run out of the exam room. The nurse had put a little plastic lizard in her vagina with the tail hanging out.


----------



## Jack I

Writer said:


> Let me see if I have this right. You can go and get a *lap dance for your pleasure*, and it is alright since "no-one" knows about it. Your wife can not get a pap smear and any other *important tests for her health*. You will, also, bar her by *refusing access to your vehicle*.
> 
> 
> I think you need to think to yourself why it is alright for you to go and get a lapdance but it isn't right for her to have a test preformed by a male doctor.


Alright.First off I never said at any point that it was okay for me to get a lap dance.I said in that thread that I felt guilty about the lap dance.I was disappointed about it and was wondering how she would feel if she found out.But I understand you're not going to go through that entire thread,so just so you know I never said it was alright for me to get the lap dance.


----------



## MissFroggie

kbhg said:


> There is no difference between male and female gyno. However, if you are not comfortable about it, your wife should be more understanding because this is not a big deal. There are choices that she can make to make you feel better. Meanwhile, there are many good female gynos out there. I know wife can fight for themselves but not for things like this.


This is the only one who has an appointment available at a time she can go.


----------



## staarz21

Jack I said:


> Alright.First off I never said at any point that it was okay for me to get a lap dance.I said in that thread that I felt guilty about the lap dance.I was disappointed about it and was wondering how she would feel if she found out.But I understand you're not going to go through that entire thread,so just so you know I never said it was alright for me to get the lap dance.


But you did it anyway regardless of your wife's feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kbhg

staarz21 said:


> I'm confused by this. Wives can't fight for what? Healthcare?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I mean wives can have their own opinions for themselves and not let husbands dominate them. However, it doesn't hurt if she change her gynecologist to female so that her husband can feel better. There are good female gynecologist out there so why she insisted go to a male one. There are alternative choices that wives can make to compromise with husbands as husbands can do the same too. And those alternative choices can have the same outcome without having to have a fight.


----------



## TiggyBlue

diwali123 said:


> A funny aside:
> One day the clinic was really busy and that same nurse told the female dr she had to leave to go get her Pap smear. The dr said she would just do it there if she wanted. She said cool.
> 
> Ten minutes later we hear the dr scream and run out of the exam room. The nurse had put a little plastic lizard in her vagina with the tail hanging out.


Had a friend who was quickly getting ready for the gyno and sprayed a deodorant on her neither region before she left, got to the gyno and he said 'this is the most effort anyone's ever made', looked down and realized she accidentally picked up her glitter spray instead. Bless her she was mortified.


----------



## Writer

Jack I said:


> Alright.First off I never said at any point that it was okay for me to get a lap dance.I said in that thread that I felt guilty about the lap dance.I was disappointed about it and was wondering how she would feel if she found out.But I understand you're not going to go through that entire thread,so just so you know I never said it was alright for me to get the lap dance.


Jack, you still went to get a lap dance, regardless of your wife's feelings at the time. My question still remains. Why is it alright for you to go get a lap dance for your pleasure and your wife can't go to a male gyno for a pap smear?


----------



## Jack I

staarz21 said:


> But you did it anyway regardless of your wife's feelings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I felt guilty afterwards.There were even times after that when I was invited to strip clubs and I didn't go because of my guilt.But here,she's not even respecting my opinion on not wanting her to see a male gynecologist.If you want to compare the two situations,then that is the difference.Maybe I would start to feel different if she was respecting my views and my right to ask that she see a female doctor,but she isn't.She didn't consider at all trying to see if she could get a female.Thats my point.She was very dismissive of my objection to her seeing a male gynecologist.


----------



## mablenc

diwali123 said:


> What? That's crazy! You should get exams whether you need birth control, are having sex or not. What a weirdo!
> What did your husband say?


He told him he wasn't having that discussion with him because it's private and because he respects me. First week of marriage. 
My dad is obviously very ignorant about womans health issues.



diwali123 said:


> A funny aside:
> One day the clinic was really busy and that same nurse told the female dr she had to leave to go get her Pap smear. The dr said she would just do it there if she wanted. She said cool.
> 
> Ten minutes later we hear the dr scream and run out of the exam room. The nurse had put a little plastic lizard in her vagina with the tail hanging out.


:rofl:


----------



## mablenc

Jack I said:


> And I felt guilty afterwards.There were even times after that when I was invited to strip clubs and I didn't go because of my guilt.But here,she's not even respecting my opinion on not wanting her to see a male gynecologist.If you want to compare the two situations,then that is the difference.Maybe I would start to feel different if she was respecting my views and my right to ask that she say a female doctor,but she isn't.She didn't consider at all trying to see if she could get a female.Thats my point.She was very dismissive of my objection to her seeing a male gynecologist.


It's because you are being unreasonable. Quite frankly I would do the same. It's also quite disrespectful of you to think your wife is seeing a male dr on purpose. Don't you trust here? I'm also betting it will take her months to see a female doctor.


----------



## Jack I

kbhg said:


> it doesn't hurt if she change her gynecologist to female so that her husband can feel better.


Exatcly.Thats my point,she never even considered changing the doctor after I voiced my opinion about it.


----------



## diwali123

TiggyBlue said:


> Had a friend who was quickly getting ready for the gyno and sprayed a deodorant on her neither region before she left, got to the gyno and he said 'this is the most effort anyone's ever made', looked down and realized she accidentally picked up her glitter spray instead. Bless her she was mortified.


I've heard that one before...only the dr said "looks like a party".


----------



## TiggyBlue

Jack I said:


> And I felt guilty afterwards.There were even times after that when I was invited to strip clubs and I didn't go because of my guilt.But here,she's not even respecting my opinion on not wanting her to see a male gynecologist.If you want to compare the two situations,then that is the difference.Maybe I would start to feel different if she was respecting my views and my right to ask that she see a female doctor,but she isn't.She didn't consider at all trying to see if she could get a female.Thats my point.She was very dismissive of my objection to her seeing a male gynecologist.


From your other posts it doesn't look like you make much effort earning her respect.


----------



## diwali123

Jack I said:


> Exatcly.Thats my point,she never even considered changing the doctor after I voiced my opinion about it.


Because you are being ridiculous. If my husband did that I would ignore him, sorry. There are certain things he doesn't have the right to ask of me and that's one of them. 
Just like if he told me I needed to wear turtlenecks because men might think about my breasts, or I needed to not speak to male coworkers, or I had to cover my hair all the time or wear a full body swim suit in the pool.


----------



## staarz21

You have to give respect to get respect. Just sayin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## antechomai

From the guy exam side:
My Ex was in the medical world for a while and once said, "for a man exam, get a guy." Longer fingers get around the whole prostate during the check looking for what ever weirdness might be present. 
We were a very technical couple.


----------



## Vega

Jack,

You wrote in an earlier thread that your wife had an abortion. Did she have the abortion by a male or female doctor?


----------



## Jack I

Vega said:


> Jack,
> 
> You wrote in an earlier thread that your wife had an abortion. Did she have the abortion by a male or female doctor?


Actually I don't even know.


----------



## julianne

I haven't read the thread but I just wanted to add this. 

My husband sees female patients all day, and I am pretty certain he is not lusting after them 

He explained it with a car analogy. He and his fellow male colleagues think of it this way: Pretend they are car mechanics, and they see toyotas, fords, etc. every day. Nothing exciting about that. Same old cars and he has to work on them. On rare occasion a Ferrari comes in but it's still just a car. 

I assure you, you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## Holland

How can a man be that insecure to think that his wife seeing a male medical professional is a concern?


----------



## motherofone

I saw a male gyno for the first time last year. Honestly best doctor I've seen yet. Medically professional, kind and courteous and gentle. For whatever reason the female gyno's I've seen forget ladyparts can be sensitive and sticking an ice cold medical tool up there makes me royally unhappy. Fwiw I would take a good Dr. Over a gender specific Dr. For anything.


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

Jack I,

I am so sorry about all of the criticism you've received on this discussion. Your feelings are very normal and it is very obvious you love your wife deeply. Many husbands are not comfortable with their wives going to male gynecologists so you are certainly not the only one who feels this way. I am sure you would appreciate the feelings that Brandon , a husband shared about his feelings about his wife going to a male gynecologist. Fortunately, his wife only goes to a female gynecologist now. Do not pay attention to the critical comments you’ve gotten. You are certainly not controlling if you are okay with your wife seeing a female gynecologist. There are plenty of female nurse practitioners, doctors, and midwives that could do intimate exams on your wife. 

Most of the people who have criticized you would probably support you if you were upset about your next door neighbor who was male watching your wife taking a shower. Many people have fallen to the cultural blind spot that doctors can do anything and that we must accept anything they do in the name of medicine even if it is wrong. Because something is done in the name of health doesn't make it blindly acceptable. No amount of training and professional standards change the fact that male doctors have no business examining and seeing private parts of women they are not married to. It is ridiculous about how people think that it is different in medical settings. Doctors are not morally above other people. 

I encourage you to not give up on your wife. You should explain to your wife about how much you love her and that you desire to be the only man to touch and see her private parts. There is a special bond between spouses when they choose to let each other be the only person of the opposite sex to see and touch each other’s private parts. It is ridiculous about how many people believe the myth that male gynecologists never lust after women they examine intimately. It is normal for any healthy man to get aroused by seeing a woman naked. There are plenty of newspaper articles about how male doctors have sexually abused patients. Many male doctors would not go that far, but there is no way they can stay pure in mind 100% of the time when they examine women’s private parts. You should show your wife this article, Why Women Should Avoid Male Doctors For Intimate Female Health Issues  I also encourage you to ask your wife how she would feel if you went to a female urologist for intimate male examination. 

This is obviously not the best forum for you to get support. I encourage you to look into joining the How Husbands Feel About Male Gynecologists. This is a great support group. Many husbands in this group have been traumatized by their wives going to a male gynecologists. Fortunately, some husbands were able to convince their wives to not go to a male gynecologist anymore. You certainly will get a lot of support in this group. 

I am the founder of Medical Patient Modesty, a non-profit organization that works to advocate for patient modesty. Male gynecologists are not the only type of doctors you have to be concerned about. Are you aware that if your wife had surgery on her hand or other body parts that have nothing to do with genitals that she could be stripped naked in operating room? Some hospitals have a ridiculous policy that you have to remove your underwear for all surgeries (even if no genitals are involved). It is easy for your wishes for an all same gender team to be ignored once you are under anesthesia. Feel free to contact us at Medical Patient Modesty and I will try my best to help you. I would be glad to try my best to help your wife to understand why it is important to not go to a male gynecologist and your feelings. 

Misty


----------



## Adelais

Before I was M to my husband I dated a pediatrician. He told me once that he had to see an obese girl who smelled terrible. He was actually repulsed by her.

Another time he told me he had a really pretty teenager whose mother brought her in for her first gyconological exam. He said that she was veeeeery pretty.

I realized that he was not looking at these children with impartial eyes. He lusted after that teenaged girl. I broke up with him.

It is a lie that all Dr.'s look at their patients objectively and not sexually. Maybe most do, but not all.

I now see only heterosexual female Dr.s for anything having to do with my female organs.


----------



## PBear

Jack I said:


> And I felt guilty afterwards.There were even times after that when I was invited to strip clubs and I didn't go because of my guilt.But here,she's not even respecting my opinion on not wanting her to see a male gynecologist.If you want to compare the two situations,then that is the difference.Maybe I would start to feel different if she was respecting my views and my right to ask that she see a female doctor,but she isn't.She didn't consider at all trying to see if she could get a female.Thats my point.She was very dismissive of my objection to her seeing a male gynecologist.


So this all would have been fine if your wife would have gone to her male doctor without talking to you about it first. Just like (I suspect) you got a lap dance without getting her approval first.

She probably would have told you that a lap dance was fine, as long as it was a guy stripper...

Sorry dude. Your hypocrisy is overwhelming everything you say. A lap dance is a WHOLE lot more sexual than a gyno appointment, with no redeeming benefits. Purely selfish on your part.

C


----------



## RandomDude

If I wasn't seperated now would be a good time for roleplay!


----------



## Vega

Vega said:


> Jack,
> 
> You wrote in an earlier thread that your wife had an abortion. Did she have the abortion by a male or female doctor?





Jack I said:


> Actually I don't even know.


Interesting. 

From what you wrote in your other posts, it appears that your wife had the abortion about a year after you two were married. So it's not like she had it before she met you, and simply told you she had one, and that was the end of the conversation.

Yet back then, it never even_occurred_ to you that a male doctor could have performed the procedure. Also, there may have been several other male assistants in the room while the procedure was being performed. 

My point is, that you probably didn't even think about it back then because _it didn't matter_. If it didn't matter enough to think about it back then, then why would a _lesser procedure _matter NOW?

Vega


----------



## Starstarfish

Actually, no PBear, she should have gone to the gyno without telling him, but then felt really guilty about it afterwards.


----------



## Jellybeans

Holland said:


> How can a man be that insecure to think that his wife seeing a male medical professional is a concern?


Because he has serious issues.


----------



## Created2Write

Jack I said:


> Exactly.Nobody looks at or touches my wife down there but me.I don't care if he's a doctor or not.And those of you saying doctors don't get aroused,how how would you know?I've heard stories of gynecologists getting erections.


Ok, I recently changed hospitals due to my husband's insurance and when it came time to get my primary Dr. I asked for a woman. I'm more comfortable with women and always have been. But there were none available. I've had two PAPs with this guy, DH in the room both times. _Not_ because he has to be there, but because I hate going to the hospital by myself. I try not to go alone. 

But, sometimes it can't be helped. I had urinary issues and had to see a urologist. THAT was almost as bad as a PAP. Ick. But there was a woman in the room with us to assist the urologist. 

Sure, sometimes crazy things happen between doctors and their patients. But trying to keep your wife away from a male doctor is not going to solve that issue for you. She is not your possession. I get you don't like the idea of another man being down there, but _it's not your body_. You should be more concerned for her health than a 20 minute procedure that is going to be uncomfortable and painful for her. 

If my husband acted this way I wouldn't stay with him.


----------



## Created2Write

Jack I said:


> It simply means that I was not going to allow it.And I would prevent her from going.She said she was going anyway and it's her money she's using using to go.I said yes,but you're going in my car.(We only have one car that we use,which is mine).


...You ARE kidding? If my DH spoke to me like that I'd be gone before he knew what happened. This is _horrible_ behavior. It's jealous and possessive and highly immature and unwarranted.


----------



## Created2Write

diwali123 said:


> A funny aside:
> One day the clinic was really busy and that same nurse told the female dr she had to leave to go get her Pap smear. The dr said she would just do it there if she wanted. She said cool.
> 
> Ten minutes later we hear the dr scream and run out of the exam room. The nurse had put a little plastic lizard in her vagina with the tail hanging out.


ROFLOL!!

Awesome! Made my day!


----------



## Created2Write

TiggyBlue said:


> Had a friend who was quickly getting ready for the gyno and sprayed a deodorant on her neither region before she left, got to the gyno and he said 'this is the most effort anyone's ever made', looked down and realized she accidentally picked up her glitter spray instead. Bless her she was mortified.


OMG!! You guys are making me crack up in the middle of work!!


----------



## Created2Write

Jack I said:


> And I felt guilty afterwards.There were even times after that when I was invited to strip clubs and I didn't go because of my guilt.But here,she's not even respecting my opinion on not wanting her to see a male gynecologist.If you want to compare the two situations,then that is the difference.Maybe I would start to feel different if she was respecting my views and my right to ask that she see a female doctor,but she isn't.She didn't consider at all trying to see if she could get a female.Thats my point.She was very dismissive of my objection to her seeing a male gynecologist.


You have a right to ask her to change to a female gyno, you're right. And she has a right to say no. Just because you're her husband doesn't mean she's wrong for seeing a male doctor. Because she's NOT.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I don't like the lizard story....now I am creeped out.


----------



## Vega

Created2Write said:


> You have a right to ask her to change to a female gyno, you're right. And she has a right to say no. Just because you're her husband doesn't mean she's wrong for seeing a male doctor. Because she's NOT.


The key word in this quote is the word "ask". You have the right to ASK your g/f to change. You don't have the right to threaten, coerce or otherwise try to manipulate and _control_ her into doing something that SHE has a *right* to do.


----------



## Created2Write

Vega said:


> The key word in is quote is the word "ask". You have the right to ASK your g/f to change. You don't have the right to threaten, coerce or otherwise try to manipulate and _control_ her into doing something that SHE has a *right* to do.


Yup. Exactly. Who she sees for her medical procedures on her own body is her choice. Sometimes, as has been said, the gynos don't have a lot of availability. Depending on her age and physical condition, it may be dangerous to postpone the appointment until a female is available, especially as a lot of women likely ask for females. 

If my husband went into a medical appointment regarding his genitals and the doctor was a female, I would have no issue. My only concern would be that he left with a good report so that we can keep having sex. His health is of, after all, the utmost importance.


----------



## BFGuru

You must have had an affair at one point. This just reeks of transference. Your complete lack of trust and respect for your wife's health is disturbing on so many levels.

You, as one without a vagina, or cervix or uterus or ovaries that could get cancer and KILL, have no right to dictate who she seeks out to ensure she does not die. Just as she has no right to dictate who you choose to do your health checks.

By barring her access to your vehicle you have just crossed over from domineering control freak to abusive alienation and frankly, I would be high tailing it out of town if you were my husband at that point. 

You show no respect for your wife's health. Since when did this become about YOU and YOUR FEELINGS? Wait...it isn't. It is about her and her health.

Who was she that you cheated on your wife with? Was she in health care? Is that why you are so insistent that this appointment is improper?


----------



## Jellybeans

BFGuru said:


> Your complete lack of trust and respect for your wife's health is disturbing on so many levels.
> 
> 
> Who was she that you cheated on your wife with? Was she in health care? Is that why you are so insistent that this appointment is improper?


Agreed. It's almost like borderline reeking of an abuser who wants to shut his woman up to the world and never let her outside.


----------



## Vega

Created2Write said:


> If my husband went into a medical appointment regarding his genitals and the doctor was a female, I would have no issue. My only concern would be that he left with a good report so that we can keep having sex. His health is of, after all, the utmost importance.


Actually, that's a good point, C2W! I wonder if the OP's wife would have an 'issue' with _him_ going to a _female_ doctor for an exam "down there"? 

If she wouldn't then OP has no case...

Vega


----------



## EleGirl

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't like the lizard story....now I am creeped out.


At least it was not a live lizard!!!


----------



## Jellybeans

I can't even see the correlation between going to a strip club/getting a lapdance with going to check on your vaginal/woman health at a gynecologist.

The fact that your mind even goes there is freakin weird to me. 

And saying she can't go in your car... wow. "We only have one car... and it's MINE."

I just read all your other thread titles and it seems you guys have a lot going on in your marriage. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/search.php?searchid=12926642&pp=25


----------



## EleGirl

Jellybeans said:


> Agreed. It's almost like borderline reeking of an abuser who wants to shut his woman up to the world and never let her outside.


He has shown other tendencies of being controlling and some boarder line cheating...

The lap dance.

Refusing to use a condom when she was not on birth control.

Then there was the no deleted, infamous anal sex thread, in which he stated that if she continued to not want anal sex he would have to go to use a prostitute because he could not live this life without that experience. Now this might have just been a guy talking trash, but I don't know what to think.


----------



## hopelessromantic1

Jack I said:


> It simply means that I was not going to allow it.And I would prevent her from going.She said she was going anyway and it's her money she's using using to go.I said yes,but you're going in my car.(We only have one car that we use,which is mine).


A$$hole alert! I would divorce my husband so fast his head would spin if he tried to control me this way. Quite obviously he does not think she is any kind of equal to him. Sad, I feel sorry for her.


----------



## Vega

EleGirl said:


> He has shown other tendencies of being controlling and some boarder line cheating...
> 
> The lap dance.
> 
> Refusing to use a condom when she was not on birth control.
> 
> Then there was the no deleted, infamous anal sex thread, in which he stated that if she continued to not want anal sex he would have to go to use a prostitute because he could not live this life without that experience. Now this might have just been a guy talking trash, but I don't know what to think.


I agree with everything here, Ele. I'm also beginning to think that his wife's abortion wasn't exactly HER idea...


----------



## Created2Write

Vega said:


> Actually, that's a good point, C2W! I wonder if the OP's wife would have an 'issue' with _him_ going to a _female_ doctor for an exam "down there"?
> 
> If she wouldn't then OP has no case...
> 
> Vega


I mean, if he's going to be so paranoid about whether or not the doctor is going to behave appropriately, he would have just asked to go along instead of demand she try and get a different doctor. But since he's not asking if he can go, I doubt this has anything to do with the doctor being professional. Regardless, his concern should be for his wife's health. He talks about respecting her and we're all taking this out of proportion, but NOT ONCE has he said anything about her health or being concerned FOR HER.

But then, he has a history of not giving a crap about his wife at all. So I shouldn't be surprised.


----------



## TikiKeen

> The nurse had put a little plastic lizard in her vagina with the tail hanging out.


A rubber snake would have been better (latex allergies aside).

OP, there's one way to give yourself that big A experience you want, and I imagine your wife might be, in her mind, using the colloquial phrase to tell you to do it.


----------



## diwali123

TikiKeen said:


> A rubber snake would have been better (latex allergies aside).
> 
> OP, there's one way to give yourself that big A experience you want, and I imagine your wife might be, in her mind, using the colloquial phrase to tell you to do it.


These people had an ongoing practical joke thing. It was a lot of fun. I'm talking costumes, acting, the whole nine.


----------



## Vega

EleGirl said:


> At least it was not a live lizard!!!


  :rofl: :lol:

OHhhh, Ele. Yer *KILLIN'*' me over here! Wait a sec...I'm gettin' a _visual_...

V


----------



## RandomDude




----------



## Faithful Wife

Oh my...I thought it WAS a real lizard!

Ok, much better. Phew!


----------



## EleGirl

RandomDude said:


>


:rofl::rofl:


----------



## diwali123

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh my...I thought it WAS a real lizard!
> 
> Ok, much better. Phew!


OMG no!!! That's not right. I would be very disturbed.


----------



## TikiKeen

geckos change their colors...*shudder*

I kind of hope we hear a news story one day about a wife running down the street for hours yelling "I'm going to the gynecologist and you can't stop meeeee! Then I'm getting a lap dance from a buff dude! Woohoo!"


----------



## Wild Mustang

Love the lounging lizard story...

OP, please realize how controlling you are with your wife's body. It is hers, not yours.


----------



## EleGirl

If my husband had told me that I could not use OUR car to go to a doctor's appointment. My response would be to go out and buy me a new car... with all the cash we had.

Then after my doc's appointment, I'd drive MY new car to an attorney and file for divorce.

Just a thought there... and yes it you her car as well. It's marital property. Does not matter whose name is on the car.


----------



## Disenchanted

EleGirl said:


> Just a though there... and yes it you her car as well. It's marital property. Does not matter whose name is on the car.


Yep, this is 100% true.

Doesn't seem like OP knows what "marriage" means.

But, it makes for a hilarious thread.

OP, your wife is eventually going to smarten up to your ways. You need help buddy.


----------



## Vega

EleGirl said:


> If my husband had told me that I could not use OUR car to go to a doctor's appointment. My response would be to go out and buy me a new car... with all the cash we had.
> 
> Then after my doc's appointment, I'd drive MY new car to an attorney and file for divorce.
> 
> Just a though there... and yes it you her car as well. It's marital property. Does not matter whose name is on the car.


:allhail:


_(*Whispers to Ele*--Pssst! Ele! He probably thinks it's "HIS" car even though they're married_...)


----------



## TikiKeen

Op, if your wife insists you have a vasectomy, will you be getting one? And will a female doctor be performing the procedure?

Fair is fair.


----------



## MissFroggie

EleGirl said:


> If my husband had told me that I could not use OUR car to go to a doctor's appointment. My response would be to go out and buy me a new car... with all the cash we had.
> 
> Then after my doc's appointment, I'd drive MY new car to an attorney and file for divorce.
> 
> Just a thought there... and yes it you her car as well. It's marital property. Does not matter whose name is on the car.


I agree, I'd also end up with the house too after showing them his threads on here! He'd be lucky to keep his job and friends after reading all he has posted. :rofl:


----------



## BuddyL33

*Re: Re: Wife is going to see a male gynecologist...I'm upset..Advice please*



Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


It's a doctor. They are there to do a job. You're making a big fuss about nothing. Why doesn't she have a right to choose a physician she wants? I don't just like any doctor digging around in and on my junk. I want someone I trust isn't going to screw it up. If somethings wrong with it I want the best doctor to fix it, man or woman. Don't you want your wife's goods in tip top shape? Clearly she trusts this doctor to let him work on her. 

Tl;dr You're over reacting big time. It's about health not sex.


----------



## Thor

I bet the problem is not his worry about the Dr. getting aroused, he is worried about his wife becoming aroused.


----------



## Catherine602

TikiKeen said:


> geckos change their colors...*shudder*
> 
> I kind of hope we hear a news story one day about a wife running down the street for hours yelling "I'm going to the gynecologist and you can't stop meeeee! Then I'm getting a lap dance from a buff dude! Woohoo!"


A flesh-colored gecko..... :circle:


----------



## NextTimeAround

This is a thread and yet it's gone to 15 pages.

This is the western world and this type of topic is done and dusted. I would never contemplate having a relationship who thought this way and hopefully other women will have the same resolve.


----------



## HangingOnHope

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


I've seen both genders over the years. My primary concern, as well as my husbands primary concern, was always focused on who was the best doctor for the job. (OB care/childbirth, general health, surgery, etc).

I happen to think choosing a doctor is a very personal decision and particularly this type of doctor. After giving your opinion and discussing, ultimately I think you have to just support her choice in this. Anything else would really be a violation, imo


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

Jack I,

I tried to post in response to your comments the other day, but they were not approved. I think it was probably due to the fact I posted some links to web sites for you to go to. Please look at your inbox for private messages. I provided you with important web sites you can go to for support. 

I am so sorry about all of the criticism you've received on this discussion. Your feelings are very normal and it is very obvious you love your wife deeply. Many husbands are not comfortable with their wives going to male gynecologists. Do not pay attention to the critical comments you’ve gotten. You are certainly not controlling if you are okay with your wife seeing a female gynecologist. There are plenty of female nurse practitioners, doctors, and midwives that could do intimate exams on your wife. 

Most of the people who have criticized you would probably support you if you were upset about your next door neighbor who was male watching your wife taking a shower. Many people have fallen to the cultural blind spot that doctors can do anything and that we must accept anything they do in the name of medicine even if it is wrong. *Because something is done in the name of health doesn't make it blindly acceptable.* No amount of training and professional standards change the fact that male doctors have no business examining and seeing private parts of women they are not married to. It is ridiculous about how people think that it is different in medical settings. Doctors are not morally above other people. 

I encourage you to not give up on your wife. You should explain to your wife about how much you love her and that you desire to be the only man to touch and see her private parts. There is a special bond between spouses when they choose to let each other be the only person of the opposite sex to see and touch each other’s private parts. It is ridiculous about how many people believe the myth that male gynecologists never lust after women they examine intimately. It is normal for any healthy man to get aroused by seeing a woman naked. There are plenty of newspaper articles about how male doctors have sexually abused patients. Many male doctors would not go that far, but there is no way they can stay pure in mind 100% of the time when they examine women’s private parts. You should show your wife this article, Why Women Should Avoid Male Doctors For Intimate Female Health Issues (Why Women Should Avoid Male Doctors For Intimate Female Health Issues?). I also encourage you to ask your wife how she would feel if you went to a female urologist for intimate male examination. 

This is obviously not the best forum for you to get support. I encourage you to look into joining the How Husbands Feel About Male Gynecologists (Yahoo! Groups). This is a great support group. Many husbands in this group have been traumatized by their wives going to a male gynecologists. Fortunately, some husbands were able to convince their wives to not go to a male gynecologist anymore. You certainly will get a lot of support in this group. 

I am the founder of Medical Patient Modesty, a non-profit organization that works to advocate for patient modesty. Male gynecologists are not the only type of doctors you have to be concerned about. Are you aware that if your wife had surgery on her hand or other body parts that have nothing to do with genitals that she could be stripped naked in operating room? Some hospitals have a ridiculous policy that you have to remove your underwear for all surgeries (even if no genitals are involved). It is easy for your wishes for an all same gender team to be ignored once you are under anesthesia. Feel free to contact us at Medical Patient Modesty and I will try my best to help you. I would be glad to try my best to help your wife to understand why it is important to not go to a male gynecologist and your feelings. 

Misty


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

Jack I,

I tried to post in response to your comments the other day, but they were not approved. I think it was probably due to the fact I posted some links to web sites for you to go to. Please look at your inbox for private messages. I provided you with important web sites you can go to for support. 

I am so sorry about all of the criticism you've received on this discussion. Your feelings are very normal and it is very obvious you love your wife deeply. Many husbands are not comfortable with their wives going to male gynecologists. Do not pay attention to the critical comments you’ve gotten. You are certainly not controlling if you are okay with your wife seeing a female gynecologist. There are plenty of female nurse practitioners, doctors, and midwives that could do intimate exams on your wife. 

Most of the people who have criticized you would probably support you if you were upset about your next door neighbor who was male watching your wife taking a shower. Many people have fallen to the cultural blind spot that doctors can do anything and that we must accept anything they do in the name of medicine even if it is wrong. *Because something is done in the name of health doesn't make it blindly acceptable.* No amount of training and professional standards change the fact that male doctors have no business examining and seeing private parts of women they are not married to. It is ridiculous about how people think that it is different in medical settings. Doctors are not morally above other people. 

I encourage you to not give up on your wife. You should explain to your wife about how much you love her and that you desire to be the only man to touch and see her private parts. There is a special bond between spouses when they choose to let each other be the only person of the opposite sex to see and touch each other’s private parts. It is ridiculous about how many people believe the myth that male gynecologists never lust after women they examine intimately. It is normal for any healthy man to get aroused by seeing a woman naked. There are plenty of newspaper articles about how male doctors have sexually abused patients. Many male doctors would not go that far, but there is no way they can stay pure in mind 100% of the time when they examine women’s private parts. You should show your wife this article, Why Women Should Avoid Male Doctors For Intimate Female Health Issues (*You can google for this article or see it in your private message*). I also encourage you to ask your wife how she would feel if you went to a female urologist for intimate male examination. 

This is obviously not the best forum for you to get support. I encourage you to look into joining the How Husbands Feel About Male Gynecologists (*Check your private message for the link*). This is a great support group. Many husbands in this group have been traumatized by their wives going to a male gynecologists. Fortunately, some husbands were able to convince their wives to not go to a male gynecologist anymore. You certainly will get a lot of support in this group. 

I am the founder of Medical Patient Modesty, a non-profit organization that works to advocate for patient modesty. Male gynecologists are not the only type of doctors you have to be concerned about. Are you aware that if your wife had surgery on her hand or other body parts that have nothing to do with genitals that she could be stripped naked in operating room? Some hospitals have a ridiculous policy that you have to remove your underwear for all surgeries (even if no genitals are involved). It is easy for your wishes for an all same gender team to be ignored once you are under anesthesia. Feel free to contact us at Medical Patient Modesty and I will try my best to help you. I would be glad to try my best to help your wife to understand why it is important to not go to a male gynecologist and your feelings. 

Misty


----------



## Thor

Misty, you would be horrified to know about the nudity invovled in treatments I've undergone for the last 15+ years for a botched hernia surgery.

Lots of female docs, nurses, PAs, ultrasound techs (2 of those) have had to look at, inject, image, cut, stitch, and examine my man bits.

Not once did I think there was an issue of modesty. Not even the time I was spread eagle on the operating room table as they prepped me for one of the numerous surgeries I've had.

What a silly notion modesty is when receiving legitimate medical treatments.


----------



## Maneo

You were born in the wrong century Misty?


----------



## Disenchanted

Bring out the slugs! Suck the demons from the blood!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## diwali123

Misty, do you wear a Berka? Because if not you are in danger of men lusting after you.


----------



## HangingOnHope

Medical Patient Modesty said:


> Jack I,
> 
> I tried to post in response to your comments the other day, but they were not approved. I think it was probably due to the fact I posted some links to web sites for you to go to. Please look at your inbox for private messages. I provided you with important web sites you can go to for support.
> 
> I am so sorry about all of the criticism you've received on this discussion. Your feelings are very normal and it is very obvious you love your wife deeply. Many husbands are not comfortable with their wives going to male gynecologists. Do not pay attention to the critical comments you’ve gotten. You are certainly not controlling if you are okay with your wife seeing a female gynecologist. There are plenty of female nurse practitioners, doctors, and midwives that could do intimate exams on your wife.
> 
> Most of the people who have criticized you would probably support you if you were upset about your next door neighbor who was male watching your wife taking a shower. Many people have fallen to the cultural blind spot that doctors can do anything and that we must accept anything they do in the name of medicine even if it is wrong. *Because something is done in the name of health doesn't make it blindly acceptable.* No amount of training and professional standards change the fact that male doctors have no business examining and seeing private parts of women they are not married to. It is ridiculous about how people think that it is different in medical settings. Doctors are not morally above other people.
> 
> I encourage you to not give up on your wife. You should explain to your wife about how much you love her and that you desire to be the only man to touch and see her private parts. There is a special bond between spouses when they choose to let each other be the only person of the opposite sex to see and touch each other’s private parts. It is ridiculous about how many people believe the myth that male gynecologists never lust after women they examine intimately. It is normal for any healthy man to get aroused by seeing a woman naked. There are plenty of newspaper articles about how male doctors have sexually abused patients. Many male doctors would not go that far, but there is no way they can stay pure in mind 100% of the time when they examine women’s private parts. You should show your wife this article, Why Women Should Avoid Male Doctors For Intimate Female Health Issues (*You can google for this article or see it in your private message*). I also encourage you to ask your wife how she would feel if you went to a female urologist for intimate male examination.
> 
> This is obviously not the best forum for you to get support. I encourage you to look into joining the How Husbands Feel About Male Gynecologists (*Check your private message for the link*). This is a great support group. Many husbands in this group have been traumatized by their wives going to a male gynecologists. Fortunately, some husbands were able to convince their wives to not go to a male gynecologist anymore. You certainly will get a lot of support in this group.
> 
> I am the founder of Medical Patient Modesty, a non-profit organization that works to advocate for patient modesty. Male gynecologists are not the only type of doctors you have to be concerned about. Are you aware that if your wife had surgery on her hand or other body parts that have nothing to do with genitals that she could be stripped naked in operating room? Some hospitals have a ridiculous policy that you have to remove your underwear for all surgeries (even if no genitals are involved). It is easy for your wishes for an all same gender team to be ignored once you are under anesthesia. Feel free to contact us at Medical Patient Modesty and I will try my best to help you. I would be glad to try my best to help your wife to understand why it is important to not go to a male gynecologist and your feelings.
> 
> Misty


Doctors don't necessarily broadcast their sexual orientation. But lets say one knew that about the doctor. If the male gyn is gay, is it then okay to see him for your gyn needs? If the female gyn is likewise gay, is it then forbidden to see her for your needs? Just curious. :scratchhead:


----------



## EleGirl

Medical Patient Modesty said:


> Jack I,
> 
> I tried to post in response to your comments the other day, but they were not approved. I think it was probably due to the fact I posted some links to web sites for you to go to. Please look at your inbox for private messages. I provided you with important web sites you can go to for support.
> 
> I am so sorry about all of the criticism you've received on this discussion. Your feelings are very normal and it is very obvious you love your wife deeply. Many husbands are not comfortable with their wives going to male gynecologists. Do not pay attention to the critical comments you’ve gotten. You are certainly not controlling if you are okay with your wife seeing a female gynecologist. There are plenty of female nurse practitioners, doctors, and midwives that could do intimate exams on your wife.
> 
> Most of the people who have criticized you would probably support you if you were upset about your next door neighbor who was male watching your wife taking a shower. Many people have fallen to the cultural blind spot that doctors can do anything and that we must accept anything they do in the name of medicine even if it is wrong. *Because something is done in the name of health doesn't make it blindly acceptable.* No amount of training and professional standards change the fact that male doctors have no business examining and seeing private parts of women they are not married to. It is ridiculous about how people think that it is different in medical settings. Doctors are not morally above other people.
> 
> I encourage you to not give up on your wife. You should explain to your wife about how much you love her and that you desire to be the only man to touch and see her private parts. There is a special bond between spouses when they choose to let each other be the only person of the opposite sex to see and touch each other’s private parts. It is ridiculous about how many people believe the myth that male gynecologists never lust after women they examine intimately. It is normal for any healthy man to get aroused by seeing a woman naked. There are plenty of newspaper articles about how male doctors have sexually abused patients. Many male doctors would not go that far, but there is no way they can stay pure in mind 100% of the time when they examine women’s private parts. You should show your wife this article, Why Women Should Avoid Male Doctors For Intimate Female Health Issues (*You can google for this article or see it in your private message*). I also encourage you to ask your wife how she would feel if you went to a female urologist for intimate male examination.
> 
> This is obviously not the best forum for you to get support. I encourage you to look into joining the How Husbands Feel About Male Gynecologists (*Check your private message for the link*). This is a great support group. Many husbands in this group have been traumatized by their wives going to a male gynecologists. Fortunately, some husbands were able to convince their wives to not go to a male gynecologist anymore. You certainly will get a lot of support in this group.
> 
> I am the founder of Medical Patient Modesty, a non-profit organization that works to advocate for patient modesty. Male gynecologists are not the only type of doctors you have to be concerned about. Are you aware that if your wife had surgery on her hand or other body parts that have nothing to do with genitals that she could be stripped naked in operating room? Some hospitals have a ridiculous policy that you have to remove your underwear for all surgeries (even if no genitals are involved). It is easy for your wishes for an all same gender team to be ignored once you are under anesthesia. Feel free to contact us at Medical Patient Modesty and I will try my best to help you. I would be glad to try my best to help your wife to understand why it is important to not go to a male gynecologist and your feelings.
> 
> Misty


Sounds like a post that could have been written by the Taliban. They also restrict women from seeing male doctors.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Medical Patient Modesty said:


> Jack I,
> 
> I tried to post in response to your comments the other day, but they were not approved. I think it was probably due to the fact I posted some links to web sites for you to go to. Please look at your inbox for private messages. I provided you with important web sites you can go to for support.
> 
> I am so sorry about all of the criticism you've received on this discussion. Your feelings are very normal and it is very obvious you love your wife deeply. Many husbands are not comfortable with their wives going to male gynecologists. Do not pay attention to the critical comments you’ve gotten. You are certainly not controlling if you are okay with your wife seeing a female gynecologist. There are plenty of female nurse practitioners, doctors, and midwives that could do intimate exams on your wife.
> 
> Most of the people who have criticized you would probably support you if you were upset about your next door neighbor who was male watching your wife taking a shower. Many people have fallen to the cultural blind spot that doctors can do anything and that we must accept anything they do in the name of medicine even if it is wrong. *Because something is done in the name of health doesn't make it blindly acceptable.* No amount of training and professional standards change the fact that male doctors have no business examining and seeing private parts of women they are not married to. It is ridiculous about how people think that it is different in medical settings. Doctors are not morally above other people.
> 
> I encourage you to not give up on your wife. You should explain to your wife about how much you love her and that you desire to be the only man to touch and see her private parts. There is a special bond between spouses when they choose to let each other be the only person of the opposite sex to see and touch each other’s private parts. It is ridiculous about how many people believe the myth that male gynecologists never lust after women they examine intimately. It is normal for any healthy man to get aroused by seeing a woman naked. There are plenty of newspaper articles about how male doctors have sexually abused patients. Many male doctors would not go that far, but there is no way they can stay pure in mind 100% of the time when they examine women’s private parts. You should show your wife this article, Why Women Should Avoid Male Doctors For Intimate Female Health Issues (*You can google for this article or see it in your private message*). I also encourage you to ask your wife how she would feel if you went to a female urologist for intimate male examination.
> 
> This is obviously not the best forum for you to get support. I encourage you to look into joining the How Husbands Feel About Male Gynecologists (*Check your private message for the link*). This is a great support group. Many husbands in this group have been traumatized by their wives going to a male gynecologists. Fortunately, some husbands were able to convince their wives to not go to a male gynecologist anymore. You certainly will get a lot of support in this group.
> 
> I am the founder of Medical Patient Modesty, a non-profit organization that works to advocate for patient modesty. Male gynecologists are not the only type of doctors you have to be concerned about. Are you aware that if your wife had surgery on her hand or other body parts that have nothing to do with genitals that she could be stripped naked in operating room? Some hospitals have a ridiculous policy that you have to remove your underwear for all surgeries (even if no genitals are involved). It is easy for your wishes for an all same gender team to be ignored once you are under anesthesia. Feel free to contact us at Medical Patient Modesty and I will try my best to help you. I would be glad to try my best to help your wife to understand why it is important to not go to a male gynecologist and your feelings.
> 
> Misty


Do you have a clue about sterile environments?

This post is as laughable as the OP.


----------



## diwali123

LonelyinLove said:


> Do you have a clue about sterile environments?
> 
> This post is as laughable as the OP.


I'm not sure if it's an urban legend type thing but I have heard that in the old days med students did do pelvic exams on unconscious women without consent. 

I highly doubt that they still do that. 

Although I'm having surgery in December. Should I put in one of these?
View attachment 10594


I think that medical staff should be sensitive to the requests, cultural and religious backgrounds of patients. Many people who were sexually abused don't want to be touched by the opposite sex at all. 

If an individual chooses to not have the opposite sex see them or touch them, I think they should be allowed to request that. 

However unless you are in a marriage where you went into it in a certain religion that prohibits OS medical staff, a spouse doesn't have right to insist this. 

Some Orthodox Jews aren't even ok with shaking hands with someone of the OS. 

Misty I get what you are saying in terms of the patient's rights. But I don't believe spouses have the right to ask that of their spouses, especially when they themselves are out getting lap dances and ok with their wife getting an
abortion. Seems very odd.


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

LonelyinLove said:


> Do you have a clue about sterile environments?
> 
> This post is as laughable as the OP.


LonelyinLove,

I am actually very aware of the myth that removing patients’ underwear helps to maintain a sterile environment. I have done a lot of research about the sterility of operating rooms. Not having an underwear does not help to maintain a sterile environment at all. Fortunately, some hospitals allow patients to wear underwear for certain surgeries that do not involve their genitals today. There are certainly surgeries that require underwear to be removed. It is important for a patient to wear 100% cotton underwear. I am not able to post links here, but I am going to send you a private message with links so you can do research. 

The operating room is not as sterile as the medical profession claims it to be. The truth is if no underwear really helped to maintain a sterile environment, then doctors and nurses should not wear underwear either. Medical professionals often carry more germs than the patient because they take so many restroom breaks and they interact with many patients without changing their scrubs. It is impossible to keep everything 100% sterile. Most of the infections that happen as a result of surgeries are due to medical professionals not washing their hands and bringing germs in the operating room. 

Here are some very important sources that I got:


*3.1.1 Patient personal clothing 
A recent editorial from Canada11noted no increase in infection rates in patients undergoing day-case cataract removal when the patients remained fully dressed to enter the theatre, including their ordinary shoes. *

*Brown12 describes the ritual of making patients coming to the operating theatre remove their underwear as the “most illogical of rituals”. It is still practised in many surgical units and should be stopped for the good reason that it causes embarrassment to the patient and serves no useful purpose.*

*Behaviour and Rituals in the Operating Theatre - Orthoteers *(you can copy and paste this in Google and it will bring up the article)
Misty


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

diwali123 said:


> I'm not sure if it's an urban legend type thing but I have heard that in the old days med students did do pelvic exams on unconscious women without consent.
> 
> I highly doubt that they still do that.
> 
> Although I'm having surgery in December. Should I put in one of these?
> View attachment 10594
> 
> 
> I think that medical staff should be sensitive to the requests, cultural and religious backgrounds of patients. Many people who were sexually abused don't want to be touched by the opposite sex at all.
> 
> If an individual chooses to not have the opposite sex see them or touch them, I think they should be allowed to request that.
> 
> However unless you are in a marriage where you went into it in a certain religion that prohibits OS medical staff, a spouse doesn't have right to insist this.
> 
> Some Orthodox Jews aren't even ok with shaking hands with someone of the OS.
> 
> Misty I get what you are saying in terms of the patient's rights. But I don't believe spouses have the right to ask that of their spouses, especially when they themselves are out getting lap dances and ok with their wife getting an
> abortion. Seems very odd.



I disagree with you about spouses. But I certainly think it is hypocritical for a man to do immoral things and then expect his wife to follow strong moral standards. I am very against abortion too. If you look at the About Us page on Medical Patient Modesty's web site, you will notice that we make it clear that we do not support abortion. 

Some medical facilities have cut down on non-consensual pelvic exams on women by medical students. But some medical facilities still do this horrible practice. You should put on your surgical consent form in writing that pelvic exams may not be done on you.

What kind of surgery are you having? If you are having a non-gynecological surgery, there is no reason for a pelvic exam to be done on you.

You can type this on Google: patientmodesty.org/nonconsensualexams.aspx and you will see some information about pelvic exams. 

Misty


----------



## Entropy3000

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


It does not bother me. However, I think if you have a problem with it you should have veto power.

So to me the issues is less about the male doctor and more about her not caring how you feel. 

I have not read this thread yet. I think if my wife had a problem with me seeing a female doctor I would comply. Indeed it is different for women.


----------



## Entropy3000

CASE_Sensitive said:


> Is she allowed to have a male masseuse?


Oh that would be hell no from me BTW.


----------



## Entropy3000

diwali123 said:


> I'm not sure if it's an urban legend type thing but I have heard that in the old days med students did do pelvic exams on unconscious women without consent.
> 
> I highly doubt that they still do that.
> 
> Although I'm having surgery in December. Should I put in one of these?
> View attachment 10594
> 
> 
> I think that medical staff should be sensitive to the requests, cultural and religious backgrounds of patients. Many people who were sexually abused don't want to be touched by the opposite sex at all.
> 
> If an individual chooses to not have the opposite sex see them or touch them, I think they should be allowed to request that.
> 
> However unless you are in a marriage where you went into it in a certain religion that prohibits OS medical staff, a spouse doesn't have right to insist this.
> 
> Some Orthodox Jews aren't even ok with shaking hands with someone of the OS.
> 
> Misty I get what you are saying in terms of the patient's rights. But I don't believe spouses have the right to ask that of their spouses, especially when they themselves are out getting lap dances and ok with their wife getting an
> abortion. Seems very odd.


In the old days, women went to doctors for hysteria treatment where the doctor masturbated them to orgasm. Husband's did not mind then ... LOL. Wives did not either. There was a time when some women at least did really enjoy having a cute young doctor. I wonder why that was?

BTW doctors are human too. Yeah yeah they see a lot of female bodies. But they are still men. 

So if your wife is hot ... rest assured any medical staff who sees her will enjoy the show.

Then there was the time that I had to see Dr Hotz ... She was quite lovely.

And while we can claim that to the medical staff it is just another body ... to the patient it is not just another person unless they go to the doctors often. So when someone strips down for a good looking medical staff person it is what it is. Again this has never been a problem for me. But let's get real. And indeed I will be told to get over myself and indeed there is friendly behavior BUT, when I get my blood pressure taken or when I have to remove my shirt for "the staff" I get some nove smiles. I am sure I am imaginging things.

Also consider that at least with some doctors and I say some they will have good looking female patients undress even when this is really not required more than with others. YMMV.

Barbi Benton at the Doctors Office.

Then there is this : Modesty FWEO


----------



## Entropy3000

MissFroggie said:


> Hang on - everyone check out his other posts!!! He had a lapdance from a stripper, he wants to know if he can have sex with his wife while she is sleeping, he refused to use a condom when she asked him to (while waiting for the pill to kick in), he insists on ejaculating in his wife's mouth even though she didn't want it... I feel very sorry for his wife living with such a selfish man with double standards. You needed to ask if getting a lapdance from a stripper was bad but you won't let your wife see a male doctor????


He just likes to open threads about sexual topics and topics that get folks fired up. It seems to work.


----------



## BFGuru

Where I respect a patient's right to request one gender or another, even still it is not blindly doing xyz in the name of medicine. Sometimes there is no other help. So where I work little granny refuses a male toileting her, as do the three other grannies on George's patient list. In my hall, the nurse I work with has a a few male patient who refuses to allow a man to cath him lest he catch the gay. We are short staffed, and I have my hands full with my specialty, the only other people who do my job that night are male. I am the only female working that night, so now, to accomidate not only the patients *I* have that prefer females including a few old ladies in addition to the OMG I'm gonna catch the gay men...now I have to add to my patient load to take on their non specialty patients when they are not trained to help any of the patients I work with. 

No. No. No. No. I will not put an entire population of patients at a safety risk because you insist on refusing assistance from a male who is fully capable of doing his job professionally. People need to recognize those that would eyeball you for their jollys are by far the minority, and the rest of us, are trying to get a job done, and just get to our lunch break. 

Will we try? Sure, but I'm tired of patients pitching fits when we just don't have the man power (pun intended) to accomidate those requests. And if it's the spouse insisting...no. I do not accomodate those requests. Not until I get the patient alone and ask the PATIENT what they want. Just because you wear the ring does not mean you are dealing with what your spouse is dealing with. It is their body, their nerve endings, their emotions that are dredging through this experience, and ultimately, it is their comfort, NOT yours that is catered to. And if you make a scene, or upset my patient in anyway...you will be removed from the facility.


----------



## MissFroggie

The paranoia is amazing on here. She is not going to be unconscious. She is not going to have a team of medical professionals with unwashed hands giving her numerous pelvic exams and then going for a quickie in the bathroom. She is not feeling uncomfortable or intimidated or violated by the procedure and doctor she has chosen. She is not making a big deal out of it at all. There are no females available when she requires the appointment and she is happy with that. Her husband is not discussing it with her, he is demanding she change things and refusing to allow her the use of 'HIS' car. He is bullying and berating her without cause. He is being abusive in refusing to allow her to leave the house and refusing to allow her medical treatment that is necessary for her to maintain her health. Meanwhile he is also considering having sex with her while she sleeps (he claims he would ask her consent for this...but in order for there to be consent it is required EVERY time, which is impossible if she is asleep), pushed her into an abortion, is going out and getting lap dances from strippers...etc etc etc.... I absolutely agree that a spouse has the right to talk to their partner about intimate health examinations and share their concerns, but forcing someone to change what they are comfortable with or keeping them from leaving the house so they can not go for medical treatment is illegal and abusive. 

We don't have her side of this but what the OP has said himself shows him to be an abuser and a cheat. Some women prefer a male doctor to carry out this procedure as they can be more gentle and sensitive, some will see a male because they have availability at the right time to suit them, some will choose them because they have the reputation for being the best and have come on recommendation. It is up to the woman getting it done to decide and forcing her to change that or preventing her from going is wrong. Perhaps he is just wanting to use this as his newest excuse for his cheating!


----------



## Yolandi

This thread is crazy. I'm happy that all the women seem to be standing up for the wife. 

OP, you seem very controlling. These types of exams are not a happy time in a woman's life. I (we) just want it to be over as quickly as possible. It's been stated before on this thread, so I am certainly not saying anything new, but perhaps it can't be stated enough to you.

I defer to my husband's wishes on many things, but this is something I would definitely take a stand on. I 100% believe you are in the wrong here. 

Have you considered a compromise? Maybe you could go with her to the exam? Hold her hand and see for yourself what a pain it can be to be a woman sometimes.


----------



## MissFroggie

Yolandi said:


> This thread is crazy. I'm happy that all the women seem to be standing up for the wife.
> 
> OP, you seem very controlling. These types of exams are not a happy time in a woman's life. I (we) just want it to be over as quickly as possible. It's been stated before on this thread, so I am certainly not saying anything new, but perhaps it can't be stated enough to you.
> 
> I defer to my husband's wishes on many things, but this is something I would definitely take a stand on. I 100% believe you are in the wrong here.
> 
> Have you considered a compromise? Maybe you could go with her to the exam? Hold her hand and see for yourself what a pain it can be to be a woman sometimes.


He has made it clear there is to be no compromise. He will even go as far as to prevent her from being able to go by restricting her use of their car. It's a terrible way to treat someone you profess to love and care about.


----------



## TikiKeen

I have a solution: have the wife get reiki done! She can stay fully clothed and be healed completely by just sending out good vibes!

:rofl: :smthumbup:


----------



## MissFroggie

TikiKeen said:


> I have a solution: have the wife get reiki done! She can stay fully clothed and be healed completely by just sending out good vibes!
> 
> :rofl: :smthumbup:


Or she could use homeopathic remedies where the smaller the amount of the 'active ingredient' the more powerful the result! I'm currently on the 'highest' dose of all sorts of homeopathic remedies as I am not taking them at all! I'm a medical genius!  xx


----------



## TikiKeen

I used to use homeopathy...then I got divorced and realized I was sick and tired for a reason: 190lbs of ex.


----------



## treyvion

TikiKeen said:


> I used to use homeopathy...then I got divorced and realized I was sick and tired for a reason: 190lbs of ex.


Your not exaggerating?


----------



## mablenc

Wow Misty just set us back hundreds of years, is quiet dangerous too. With your agenda people can die, by not getting the treatments they need. You should reconsider what you are saying. I a woman goes to the hospital and is in labor she could die if she is requesting and waiting for only female staff. If there are no female obgyn accepting new patients and a woman doesn't go for her exams, she could be growing cancer to a higher stage. You have the right to your opinion but you need to look into the consequences of what you are advocating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

MissFroggie said:


> Or she could use homeopathic remedies where the smaller the amount of the 'active ingredient' the more powerful the result! I'm currently on the 'highest' dose of all sorts of homeopathic remedies as I am not taking them at all! I'm a medical genius!  xx


Sounds like homeopathic means placebo.


----------



## MissFroggie

EleGirl said:


> Sounds like homeopathic means placebo.


Exactly hon  It was in response to the post joking that she could 'think' herself well.


----------



## TikiKeen

treyvion...yes. The stress of living with him made me sick and also kept my immune system lowered.


----------



## Disenchanted

TikiKeen said:


> I used to use homeopathy...then I got divorced and realized I was sick and tired for a reason: 190lbs of ex.


Lol I like to say I lost 180 lbs in the divorce, 60 of which were mine.


----------



## LVF

What's exactly your problem? If it doesn't bother your wife, then all is fine. 
Women can encounter male doctors at any moment. I have always had female gynaecologists, but once I went to do a very "private" exam with internal ultrasounds, etc. and it was a man (no women working in that department). It's normal for them... the same way not everybody has the stomach to deal with operations and autopsies, not everybody could be a gynaecologist. They are professionals.


----------



## mablenc

They (The OP and misty) make it sound like the medical community is full of perverts who take advantage of their patients. They fail to recognize is that there are laws that protect patients. There is always a nurse in the exam. That it's standard routine care. That just because they are males, it doent men all famales give them a boner. Many men take a while to see their wife in a sexual manner after Child birth. These doctors see that in almost a daily basis. What about their commitment to their spouse or significant other? 

This is beyond rediculous.


----------



## Jack I

MissFroggie said:


> He has made it clear there is to be no compromise. He will even go as far as to prevent her from being able to go by restricting her use of their car. It's a terrible way to treat someone you profess to love and care about.


A lot of people in this thread are acting like this is the first time they have ever heard of a husband prohibiting his wife from doing something he doesn't approve of.I'd say it's fairly common.Also just because a husband prohibits his wife from doing something,it doesn't mean he doesn't respect her.


----------



## Jack I

hopelessromantic1 said:


> A$$hole alert! I would divorce my husband so fast his head would spin if he tried to control me this way. Quite obviously he does not think she is any kind of equal to him. Sad, I feel sorry for her.


Again,just because you ask your wife not to do something doesn't mean that you don't respect the marriage and you don't see her as being equal.It's not controlling,it's something I'm just not comfortable with.


----------



## EleGirl

Jack I said:


> A lot of people in this thread are acting like this is the first time they have ever heard of a husband prohibiting his wife from doing something he doesn't approve of.I'd say it's fairly common.Also just because a husband prohibits his wife from doing something,it doesn't mean he doesn't respect her.


Do you agree that she has the right to prohibit your from seeing a doctor and other doing other things.

The truth is that a no spouse has the right to prohibit the other from doing anything. They can tell the spouse that they disagree with something. But that's all they can do.


----------



## EleGirl

Jack I said:


> Again,just because you ask your wife not to do something doesn't mean that you don't respect the marriage and you don't see her as being equal.It's not controlling,it's something I'm just not comfortable with.


You have told her that you are not comfortable with her going to a male gynecologist. You have the right to tell her how you feel. 

You do not have the right to deny her the use of a car that is your and her only means of transportation. This is you denying her the right to seek out the medical care that she needs.


----------



## BFGuru

EleGirl said:


> You have told her that you are not comfortable with her going to a male gynecologist. You have the right to tell her how you feel.
> 
> You do not have the right to deny her the use of a car that is your and her only means of transportation. This is you denying her the right to seek out the medical care that she needs.


Like times one thousand. 

Jack can you not come out of your circle of self importance and realize that yes...yes...you are being insensitive by refusing her access to healthcare. Or are you too self centered to realize this is not about you?


----------



## Jack I

Yolandi said:


> I defer to my husband's wishes on many things, but this is something I would definitely take a stand on. I 100% believe you are in the wrong here.
> 
> Have you considered a compromise? Maybe you could go with her to the exam? Hold her hand and see for yourself what a pain it can be to be a woman sometimes.


Honestly,I haven't really considered a compromise here.But your post brings me to something else.I have prohibited my wife from doing certain things in the past.But I budged.I compromised.I've been a decent husband for most of our marriage,and I've provided her with certain things,waited on her while she recovered from weight loss surgery,supported her while she was laid off,etc.I feel like she should be the one to compromise here since I have compromised in the past.


----------



## couple

Plenty of women choose not to go to male gynecologists simply because they are less comfortable with a man looking at them naked and feel more vulnerable in these activities with a man than with a woman.

While some might not make the same choice, I think that few people would say it's unreasonable for a woman to choose a female over a male. So why do we say that it's so unreasonable for a man to be uncomfortable with his wife being looked at by a male and being in a vulnerable position with a male (even if we can assume that all activities will be safe and ethical)?

I totally get that it's ultimately her choice and it's her body, etc but making him sound unreasonable and neurotic for feeling this way is not fair.


----------



## Jack I

couple said:


> While some might not make the same choice, I think that few people would say it's unreasonable for a woman to choose a female over a male. So why do we say that it's so unreasonable for a man to be uncomfortable with his wife being looked at by a male and being in a vulnerable position with a male (even if we can assume that all activities will be safe and ethical)?
> 
> I totally get that it's ultimately her choice and it's her body, etc but making him sound unreasonable and neurotic for feeling this way is not fair.


Exactly.I think I said earlier in the thread that no way am I the only guy who has an issue with this.And you make a great point about people not considering it unreasonable for a woman to prefer a female gynecologist to a male,so in turn,it must be reasonable or a man to prefer his wife see a female gynecologist.


----------



## TikiKeen

> I've been a decent husband for most of our marriage,and I've provided her with certain things,waited on her while she recovered from weight loss surgery,supported her while she was laid off,etc.I feel like she should be the one to compromise here since I have compromised in the past.


I *know* you're not comparing your marital duty to care for your spouse after surgery to limiting her medical provider options, right? And that was a compromise? And supporting her during & after a layoff? Again, that's what a spouse does: build up and support the other spouse, reassuring them that they will be employed/feel better/feel personally successful again.

The fact you see these things as a compromise rather than as a duty shows me that marriage is the All About Jack Show and she's just an audience member.

When one of us has a major illness here, the other one would stop the Earth if that's what it took to care for the ill spouse. We might later complain about the inconvenience a little in a selfish way, but we would never regret it.


----------



## DeusEx

Prank Calls Funny I'm Your Wife's Gynecologist - YouTube


----------



## tennisstar

I cannot imagine being married to a man like this. It sounds like Jack thinks he owns his wife like a piece of property.

I usually go to a female gyn but last time, my doctor was in surgery so I saw a man rather than go back or wait for hours. No difference...

I have had male and female masseuses and trainers. Only one time did I have an issue, and that was years ago when I was single. My husband and I both have the same male trainer now. I was more interested in the location and time for training than whether it was a male or female. 

What concerns me the mist if that you say you'll forbid her from going. That is beyond controlling. I think you have some issues and I feel sorry for your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Vega

Jack I said:


> A lot of people in this thread are acting like this is the first time they have ever heard of a husband prohibiting his wife from doing something he doesn't approve of.I'd say it's fairly common.Also just because a husband prohibits his wife from doing something,it doesn't mean he doesn't respect her.
> .


No, Jack. They're not acting like this is the first time they ever heard of a husband prohibiting his wife from doing something he doesn't approve of. Their surprise at your attitude is how archaic and _uncommon_ it is these days, unless you live in a place like Saudi Arabia. Women used to be subjected to "obeying" their husbands. But this has been steadily changing. Women are no longer under that subjection, and it seems that MOST men agree that they shouldn't be. 



> Again,just because you ask your wife not to do something doesn't mean that you don't respect the marriage and you don't see her as being equal.It's not controlling,it's something I'm just not comfortable with.


Jack, you're not "asking" your wife not to do something; you are trying to FORCE her not to do it. You're trying to force her not to do something that she has the RIGHT to do. And yes, you ARE trying to control her. 



> I've been a decent husband for most of our marriage,and I've provided her with certain things,waited on her while she recovered from weight loss surgery,supported her while she was laid off,etc.I feel like she should be the one to compromise here since I have compromised in the past.


From the other posts you've written, I would HARDLY refer to you as a "decent" husband. You seem to be one of 'those' men who believes that if you do something FOR your spouse that your spouse now "OWES" you. Just because you nursed her through her weight loss surgery does NOT mean that she gives up her RIGHTS in other areas. If you nursed her through surgery thinking that she now 'owes' you, then you didn't nurse her with _love_...

You'll probably get some support on this forum, Jack. But you can't take that _minimal_ support as "proof" that what you're doing is 'reasonable'. As you can see, MOST people are against your oppressive attitudes towards your wife and your marriage. 

Maybe it's time for you to bring your attitudes into 2013 *a.d.* instead of trying to force your wife to live in 2013 *b.c*.

Vega


----------



## EleGirl

couple said:


> Plenty of women choose not to go to male gynecologists simply because they are less comfortable with a man looking at them naked and feel more vulnerable in these activities with a man than with a woman.
> 
> While some might not make the same choice, I think that few people would say it's unreasonable for a woman to choose a female over a male. So why do we say that it's so unreasonable for a man to be uncomfortable with his wife being looked at by a male and being in a vulnerable position with a male (even if we can assume that all activities will be safe and ethical)?
> 
> I totally get that it's ultimately her choice and it's her body, etc but making him sound unreasonable and neurotic for feeling this way is not fair.


There were no female doctors available for his wife to see. This is a large part of the issue here.

Plus, it's up to her, not him if she is uncomfortable with a male.


----------



## ExiledBayStater

diwali123 said:


> Some Orthodox Jews aren't even ok with shaking hands with someone of the OS.


Even they are generally okay with women seeing male doctors, and there is certainly no religious prohibition against it. A handshake might be off limits but a teeth cleaning or pelvic exam is just business. Intent matters.


----------



## weightlifter

LOL do you realize how bored that male gyno is seeing your wifes cooter?

My wife has had male gynos. Yawn.


----------



## Disenchanted

Jack I said:


> husband prohibits his wife from doing something,it doesn't mean he doesn't respect her.


oxymoron


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> oxymoron


Not at all. The fact that it comes to this means she disrespects him. Basically one should not prohibit their spouse. If a spouse is unwilling to consider your feelings, they really are not a good spouse and they are not worth investing in. If i had a problem with my wife having male doctors I would expect her to respect that. It IS possible that I could have an issue with one of her doctors for any number of reasons.

This has nothing to do with this particualr topic per se. The bottomline if keeping a doctor is more important thsn your spouse then get real. You really are not into the whole marriage thing.

What I take exception to is how quick folks just love to jump on some husband for how he feels. He has every right to feel anyway he wants about this. It does not bother me that my wife has male doctors. But if it did I would expect her to respect that. I do doctors as different from personal trainers and massage therapists and tattoo artists and so on. Mostly. But as I pointed out earlier, doctors are no above having sexual feelings. It varies from doctor to doctor. I am pointing out the other side of things. I do that. I find some of the responses to him as absurd as his stance on the male doctor.

But in all seriouslness why are we so fast to think that a woman is not qulified to be a doctor. Why is it assumed a man is better at examining a womans parts. Ye I have heard stories about female doctors not being a sympathetic. But that makes me laugh. basically they feel more comfortable having a guy look at them than a woman. Whatever. I just suggest that there are plebty of qlified woman out there and there is no great reason for a wife to insists on a guy just because she is more comfortable having a guy do her exams. LOL. I guess all in all I would ratrher have a woman examine my junk. So I get it. But I do not have to get into the stirrups either.

To be sure though there is great controversy on the number and frquency of these pelvic exams. No doubt that this is not a lot of fun for these guys all the time, but to claim that a doctor is above having sexual thoughts is absurd. Especially a young doctor with a great looking woman. Agreed it is has less novelty. 

I get a kick though about people who claim this same thing for massage therapsits and tattoo artists who do clit piercings. They are professional!!!! LOL. Right.

I am saying much of this tongue in cheeek ... but also to balance some of this out as well. Gosh some women just want to do what they want to do and get upset if a man questions them at all. How dare he!!


----------



## Disenchanted

Entropy3000 said:


> Not at all. The fact that it comes to this means she disrespects him. basically one should not prohibit their spouse. If a spouse is unwilling to consider your feelings, they really are not a good spouse and they are not worth investing in.
> 
> This has nothing to do with this particualr topic per se. The bottomline if keeping a doctor is more important thsn your spouse then get real. You really are not into the whole marriage thing.


Riiiiggghhhhttt

Cause personal medical concerns are up for comittee review


----------



## diwali123

For the record I am not prolife. I just think it's an odd combination of values when someone thinks it's ok to get a lap dance, for his wife to get an abortion and not even know if the dr was male or female and then say she isn't allowed to go to a male OB/GYN.


----------



## Starstarfish

> If a spouse is unwilling to consider your feelings, they really are not a good spouse and they are not worth investing in. If i had a problem with my wife having male doctors I would expect her to respect that.


So considering someone else's feelings means, if the two of you disagree your spouse should "respect your feelings" by doing whatever is it you want. Anything less than that means they are a bad spouse, and you should divorce them. 



> I feel like she should be the one to compromise here since I have compromised in the past.





> Gosh some women just want to do what they want to do and get upset if a man questions them at all. How dare he!!


Not at all. But the OP has contributed to the situation. He participated in the decision that he and his wife share only one car, which reduces when she is available and has transportation to do things like doctor's appointments. But wants to imagine that's not a restriction on when and whom might be available. 

How about get her a second car, OP, then she can go appointments at more times? But you want to control her access to go (you have only one car and its YOUR car), and then get mad she can only make an appointment when the transportation you are willing to give her is available.


----------



## Vega

Entropy3000 said:


> Not at all. The fact that it comes to this means she disrespects him. Basically one should not prohibit their spouse. If a spouse is unwilling to consider your feelings, they really are not a good spouse and they are not worth investing in.


Well, I guess the OP isn't a "good spouse" because HE is not willing to consider HER feelings on the issue. 

The OP's wife owns her own body. As the 'owner', SHE has the ultimate 'say' over it. If the OP doesn't like it, he gets to express his feelings...but not to the point of trying to CONTROL her if she doesn't agree with his feelings! 

How about if the OP's wife tells him that he MUST shave his head because SHE finds hair to be 'sexy' and that every other woman will get too turned on if they see him with a full head of hair? How about if the OP's wife prohibits him from leaving the house until he complies? And if the OP doesn't wish to shave his head, he's being 'disrespectful' to his wife's "feelings". 



> What I take exception to is how quick folks just love to jump on some husband for how he feels. He has every right to feel anyway he wants about this.


People are not necessarily debating how he "feels"; they're debating what he's _doing_ about how he feels. He's trying to FORCE his wife to live her life as HE wants her to live her life. He doesn't want to "allow" her to live her life as SHE wants to live her life. He's threatened to prevent her from using a marital asset (the car) to get to her appointment. Sorry, but she has the RIGHT to see any doctor--male or female--that she wants. She's not "wrong" for seeing a male doctor. The OP either gets to accept her choice for herself, or he gets to _leave_. Trying to control her is NOT an option. 



> But as I pointed out earlier, doctors are not above having sexual feelings. It varies from doctor to doctor.


And women are not above having sexual feelings for a man who has a full head of hair, so all men should shave their heads... 

C'mon, LOL! We can talk about these sensationalized _exceptions_ till we're blue in the face! Let's not make exceptions 'the rule'. Most doctors are professional in what they do. 



> ...there is no great reason for a wife to insists on a guy just because she is more comfortable having a guy do her exams


. 

And there's no great reason for a husband to insist on a female FOR HIS WIFE just because HE is more comfortable having a woman doing HIS WIFE'S EXAMS. 



> ... to claim that a doctor is above having sexual thoughts is absurd.


To claim that ALL MALE DOCTORS ALWAYS sexualize a woman during a ob/gyn exam is also absurd. 



> Gosh some women just want to do what they want to do and get upset if a man questions them at all. How dare he!


OP is not "questioning"; he's CONTROLLING. THAT'S the difference.


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

Jack I said:


> Exactly.I think I said earlier in the thread that no way am I the only guy who has an issue with this.And you make a great point about people not considering it unreasonable for a woman to prefer a female gynecologist to a male,so in turn,it must be reasonable or a man to prefer his wife see a female gynecologist.


You really need to join the How Husbands Feel About Male Gynecologists group where many men feel the same way as you do. You will get a lot of support there. I sent you a Private Message. Did you get it?


Misty


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

mablenc said:


> They (The OP and misty) make it sound like the medical community is full of perverts who take advantage of their patients. They fail to recognize is that there are laws that protect patients. There is always a nurse in the exam. That it's standard routine care. That just because they are males, it doent men all famales give them a boner. Many men take a while to see their wife in a sexual manner after Child birth. These doctors see that in almost a daily basis. What about their commitment to their spouse or significant other?
> 
> This is beyond rediculous.


There are actually some good doctors and nurses. In fact, I have interacted with some doctors and nurses who think patient modesty is important. You should consider purchasing "Women and Doctors" By Dr. John Smith, a former male gynecologist. You can find that book on Amazon.com. He shares in his book that men should not be gynecologists. He shared about how his colleagues would look and admire women's breasts when they were under anesthesia and how they made sexual comments about their female patients. 

My cousin who is a nurse admires the research I've done. She confirmed that urinary catheters were standard procedures for many surgeries even though they were not necessary. Some hospitals have worked hard to cut down unnecessary urinary catheterizations because of the terrible complications that can result. Many nurses just use urinary catheters for their own convenience because they do not want to have to clean urine or help patients to go to bathroom. 

I encourage you to do a search on Google for sexual abuse by male doctors and you will find many articles. Many trustworthy male gynecologists have sexually abused patients. Are you familiar with the case of Dr. Levy who secretly took pictures of his female patients' private parts with a pen camera for many years? He was well respected in his community. A nurse certainly did prevent him from abusing those patients.

*Here's an article that I wrote about how chaperones (nurses) do not really protect patients:*

Many people falsely assume that patients will be protected from sexual abuse and wrongdoing by a doctor if a nurse or medical assistant is present. *But is this really true? *

Many doctors especially male will have a nurse or assistant present for intimate exams such as breast, pelvic exams, and pap smears. The chaperone is the doctor's employee so she looks out for him and she will often defend him even when he does something wrong. Keep in mind that the nurse or assistant is there to "protect" the doctor and is rarely on the patient's side. There have been cases where female patients felt the male doctor went too far, but the nurse or assistant felt he was simply doing thorough examinations. One lady who was very upset that a male doctor did a rectal exam and a pap smear without her consent talked to the nurse who was present about her concerns. The nurse defended the doctor by saying that he did very thorough exams. Based on some research, male doctors tend to take longer than female doctors on breast and pelvic examinations. There was one case where everything happened so quickly that took the nurse off guard and she was not able to report what happened until the female patient left.

There are times a nurse or assistant may know that the doctor is doing something wrong, but she may be afraid to expose his criminal activities for fear of being fired or facing discrimination in the workplace. 

Even in cases where a state medical board mandates a chaperone as a result of a doctor’s sexual misconduct, the chaperone is not directed to intervene if misconduct occurs, but only to observe and report to the medical board. This is not good because sexual abuse should be prevented in the first place. 

Nearly half of all doctors sanctioned for sexual misconduct still practice. Even doctors who lose their licenses for sexual misconduct can often get them reinstated after a year or two.

It's hard to collect the evidence to support one's suspicions, and without evidence victims feel powerless. It usually takes many years for a male doctor to be arrested for wrongdoing. For example, Dr. Levy secretly took pictures of his patients for a long time before he was arrested. He was a very popular OB/GYN who delivered many babies and helped a lot of women with female health problems. Think how these patients are further violated by having their nude images being viewed by teams of police personnel. 

*Important Facts About Chaperones To Keep in Mind: *

1.) A nurse / assistant cannot help to chaperone a doctor's mind. She cannot control his lustful thoughts as he does intimate examinations on women. The male doctor could be enjoying the exam as though he were looking at pornography or a strip show, and then fantasizing about it later on after he leaves work. It is very normal for men to be aroused by seeing naked women and a male doctor is no different. No amount of training can take the "man" out of a male doctor. No matter how professional the male doctor is, there is no chance that he could stay pure in his mind 100 percent of the time. Look at all of the sexual misconduct cases involving male OB/GYNs in the news. 

2.) A nurse / assistant rarely will advocate for your wishes.

3.) A nurse / assistant rarely helps to prevent sexual abuse. Abuse usually happens so quickly. 

4.) Doctors are able to get away with more unnecessary invasive exams if a nurse or assistant is present without getting in trouble. Why would the presence of a nurse make acceptable any exam that bears no relevance to the patient's presenting concern? Here are two examples to consider: 1.) Breast and external genital exams performed by an endocrinologist on a woman presenting for suspected Hyperaldosteronism would be inappropriate with or without the presence of a nurse. 2.) Breast exam performed by a doctor on a lady who has jaw pain. 

*The best way for women to prevent sexual abuse by doctors is to only go to a female doctor for intimate women's health issues and to not let a male doctor see any parts of her body that are covered by a 2 piece bathing suit. *


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

mablenc said:


> They (The OP and misty) make it sound like the medical community is full of perverts who take advantage of their patients. They fail to recognize is that there are laws that protect patients. There is always a nurse in the exam. That it's standard routine care. That just because they are males, it doent men all famales give them a boner. Many men take a while to see their wife in a sexual manner after Child birth. These doctors see that in almost a daily basis. What about their commitment to their spouse or significant other?
> 
> This is beyond rediculous.


There are actually some good doctors and nurses. In fact, I have interacted with some doctors and nurses who think patient modesty is important. You should consider purchasing "Women and Doctors" By Dr. John Smith, a former male gynecologist. You can find that book on Amazon.com. He shares in his book that men should not be gynecologists. He shared about how his colleagues would look and admire women's breasts when they were under anesthesia and how they made sexual comments about their female patients. 

My cousin who is a nurse admires the research I've done. She confirmed that urinary catheters were standard procedures for many surgeries even though they were not necessary. Some hospitals have worked hard to cut down unnecessary urinary catheterizations because of the terrible complications that can result. Many nurses just use urinary catheters for their own convenience because they do not want to have to clean urine or help patients to go to bathroom. 

I encourage you to do a search on Google for sexual abuse by male doctors and you will find many articles. Many trustworthy male gynecologists have sexually abused patients. Are you familiar with the case of Dr. Levy who secretly took pictures of his female patients' private parts with a pen camera for many years? He was well respected in his community. A nurse certainly did prevent him from abusing those patients.

xx


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

mablenc said:


> They (The OP and misty) make it sound like the medical community is full of perverts who take advantage of their patients. They fail to recognize is that there are laws that protect patients. There is always a nurse in the exam. That it's standard routine care. That just because they are males, it doent men all famales give them a boner. Many men take a while to see their wife in a sexual manner after Child birth. These doctors see that in almost a daily basis. What about their commitment to their spouse or significant other?
> 
> This is beyond rediculous.


There are actually some good doctors and nurses. In fact, I have interacted with some doctors and nurses who think patient modesty is important. You should consider purchasing "Women and Doctors" By Dr. John Smith, a former male gynecologist. You can find that book on Amazon. He shares in his book that men should not be gynecologists. He shared about how his colleagues would look and admire women's breasts when they were under anesthesia and how they made sexual comments about their female patients. 

My cousin who is a nurse admires the research I've done. She confirmed that urinary catheters were standard procedures for many surgeries even though they were not necessary. Some hospitals have worked hard to cut down unnecessary urinary catheterizations because of the terrible complications that can result. Many nurses just use urinary catheters for their own convenience because they do not want to have to clean urine or help patients to go to bathroom. 

I encourage you to do a search on Google for sexual abuse by male doctors and you will find many articles. Many trustworthy male gynecologists have sexually abused patients. Are you familiar with the case of Dr. Levy who secretly took pictures of his female patients' private parts with a pen camera for many years? He was well respected in his community. A nurse certainly did prevent him from abusing those patients.


----------



## Medical Patient Modesty

mablenc said:


> They (The OP and misty) make it sound like the medical community is full of perverts who take advantage of their patients. They fail to recognize is that there are laws that protect patients. There is always a nurse in the exam. That it's standard routine care. That just because they are males, it doent men all famales give them a boner. Many men take a while to see their wife in a sexual manner after Child birth. These doctors see that in almost a daily basis. What about their commitment to their spouse or significant other?
> 
> This is beyond rediculous.


*Here's an article that I wrote about how chaperones (nurses) do not really protect patients:*

Many people falsely assume that patients will be protected from sexual abuse and wrongdoing by a doctor if a nurse or medical assistant is present. *But is this really true? *

Many doctors especially male will have a nurse or assistant present for intimate exams such as breast, pelvic exams, and pap smears. The chaperone is the doctor's employee so she looks out for him and she will often defend him even when he does something wrong. Keep in mind that the nurse or assistant is there to "protect" the doctor and is rarely on the patient's side. There have been cases where female patients felt the male doctor went too far, but the nurse or assistant felt he was simply doing thorough examinations. One lady who was very upset that a male doctor did a rectal exam and a pap smear without her consent talked to the nurse who was present about her concerns. The nurse defended the doctor by saying that he did very thorough exams. Based on some research, male doctors tend to take longer than female doctors on breast and pelvic examinations. There was one case where everything happened so quickly that took the nurse off guard and she was not able to report what happened until the female patient left.

There are times a nurse or assistant may know that the doctor is doing something wrong, but she may be afraid to expose his criminal activities for fear of being fired or facing discrimination in the workplace. 

Even in cases where a state medical board mandates a chaperone as a result of a doctor’s sexual misconduct, the chaperone is not directed to intervene if misconduct occurs, but only to observe and report to the medical board. This is not good because sexual abuse should be prevented in the first place. 

Nearly half of all doctors sanctioned for sexual misconduct still practice. Even doctors who lose their licenses for sexual misconduct can often get them reinstated after a year or two.

It's hard to collect the evidence to support one's suspicions, and without evidence victims feel powerless. It usually takes many years for a male doctor to be arrested for wrongdoing. For example, Dr. Levy secretly took pictures of his patients for a long time before he was arrested. He was a very popular OB/GYN who delivered many babies and helped a lot of women with female health problems. Think how these patients are further violated by having their nude images being viewed by teams of police personnel. 

*Important Facts About Chaperones To Keep in Mind: *

1.) A nurse / assistant cannot help to chaperone a doctor's mind. She cannot control his lustful thoughts as he does intimate examinations on women. The male doctor could be enjoying the exam as though he were looking at pornography or a strip show, and then fantasizing about it later on after he leaves work. It is very normal for men to be aroused by seeing naked women and a male doctor is no different. No amount of training can take the "man" out of a male doctor. No matter how professional the male doctor is, there is no chance that he could stay pure in his mind 100 percent of the time. Look at all of the sexual misconduct cases involving male OB/GYNs in the news. 

2.) A nurse / assistant rarely will advocate for your wishes.

3.) A nurse / assistant rarely helps to prevent sexual abuse. Abuse usually happens so quickly. 

4.) Doctors are able to get away with more unnecessary invasive exams if a nurse or assistant is present without getting in trouble. Why would the presence of a nurse make acceptable any exam that bears no relevance to the patient's presenting concern? Here are two examples to consider: 1.) Breast and external genital exams performed by an endocrinologist on a woman presenting for suspected Hyperaldosteronism would be inappropriate with or without the presence of a nurse. 2.) Breast exam performed by a doctor on a lady who has jaw pain. 

*The best way for women to prevent sexual abuse by doctors is to only go to a female doctor for intimate women's health issues and to not let a male doctor see any parts of her body that are covered by a 2 piece bathing suit. *


----------



## mablenc

Medical Patient Modesty said:


> There are actually some good doctors and nurses. In fact, I have interacted with some doctors and nurses who think patient modesty is important. You should consider purchasing "Women and Doctors" By Dr. John Smith, a former male gynecologist. You can find that book on Amazon. He shares in his book that men should not be gynecologists. He shared about how his colleagues would look and admire women's breasts when they were under anesthesia and how they made sexual comments about their female patients.
> 
> My cousin who is a nurse admires the research I've done. She confirmed that urinary catheters were standard procedures for many surgeries even though they were not necessary. Some hospitals have worked hard to cut down unnecessary urinary catheterizations because of the terrible complications that can result. Many nurses just use urinary catheters for their own convenience because they do not want to have to clean urine or help patients to go to bathroom.
> 
> I encourage you to do a search on Google for sexual abuse by male doctors and you will find many articles. Many trustworthy male gynecologists have sexually abused patients. Are you familiar with the case of Dr. Levy who secretly took pictures of his female patients' private parts with a pen camera for many years? He was well respected in his community. A nurse certainly did prevent him from abusing those patients.


I saw your website and you ask for donations, may I ask why you do and what's it used for. With all due respect it seems you are scaring people into seeking care. I do understand there are unprofessional people just like in any field but, you can't go generalizing the way you do. It is irresponsible to do this. I have no interest in buying books that only promote paranoia to the general public based on isolated cases.

ETA- would you care to share your citation for your articles? There seems to be a lot of generalizing. I would like to see where theses claims come from. If you add your credentials as well that would be even better.


----------



## LonelyinLove

mablenc said:


> I saw your website and you ask for donations, may I ask why you do and what's it used for. With all due respect it seems you are scaring people into seeking care. I do understand there are unprofessional people just like in any field but, you can't go generalizing the way you do. It is irresponsible to do this. I have no interest in buying books that only promote paranoia to the general public based on isolated cases.
> 
> ETA- would you care to share your citation for your articles? There seems to be a lot of generalizing. I would like to see where theses claims come from. If you add your credentials as well that would be even better.


I checked out the website too. What a crock of BS.

I was an RN on an L&D floor and later a med/surg floor. The steaming pile this site promotes borders on criminal. 

It assumes most male docs are on the prowl, Foley caths are used for nurse convenience, and a Vag exam post-birth is not necessary.

Absolutely moronic. And dangerous.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

LonelyinLove said:


> I checked out the website too. What a crock of BS.
> 
> I was an RN on an L&D floor and later a med/surg floor. The steaming pile this site promotes borders on criminal.
> 
> It assumes most male docs are on the prowl, Foley caths are used for nurse convenience, and a Vag exam post-birth is not necessary.
> 
> Absolutely moronic. And dangerous.


I sent it to my Uncle-in-law who is an OB/Gyn and he was curious how long she has been a physician. He's been for 32 years, delivered thousands of babies and performed thousands of surgeries. He said the website is absurd and any doctor who adheres to these "suggestions" should get their license revoked.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I sent it to my Uncle-in-law who is an OB/Gyn and he was curious how long she has been a physician.


Well, I guess it depends...is she a Board Certified MD or DO, or does she practice voodoo, etc.....

A doctor by any other name may not be a VALID, Board Certified, State Licensed medical doctor.


----------



## diwali123

I get the feeling that someone needs to go to counseling to deal with the abuse that happened to them instead of going on a mission that assumes all men are predators. 
People are abused by their parents, teachers, coaches and pastors. Does that mean we should sex segregate the world? 
And what about abusers who abuse people of the same sex?


----------



## Disenchanted

This thread is phenomanaly awesome!!!!

I'm gonna try this on my next wife.

"No you can't go through any grocery line if the cashier is male"


----------



## Vega

Disenchanted said:


> "No you can't go through any grocery line if the cashier is male"


:rofl: :lol:

And yet, the sad part is, that I'm sure SOME men 'out there' have actually used that 'line' before...


----------



## diwali123

Vega said:


> :rofl: :lol:
> 
> And yet, the sad part is, that I'm sure SOME men 'out there' have actually used that 'line' before...


It's a slippery slope into "you can't be seen in public at all because other men will have pornographic thoughts about you."


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

My husband wants to know if male dentists are also off limits. Her mouth would be hanging wide open afterall.


----------



## Disenchanted

I actually think male dentists are far more dangerous then gynos.


----------



## Vega

Yes. I'm sure that the next step would be to perform pelvic exams through her ears...


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Disenchanted said:


> I actually think male dentists are far more dangerous then gynos.


One guy does not a pattern make.


----------



## Disenchanted

Therealbrighteyes said:


> One guy does not a pattern make.


Absolutely.

Personally I would have no problem with my GF, wife or daughter going to a male medical provider of their choice.

I got nuthin' against dentists.


----------



## TikiKeen

Can we ban Medical Patient Modesty for not offering her own certs (she did write articles, she said), for promoting dangerous medicine with no ethics (and no license), for advertising on the board and for promoting a non-peer-reviewed book from 1992?

That has got to be some of the most insane spam I've ever seen.


----------



## diwali123

TikiKeen said:


> Can we ban Medical Patient Modesty for not offering her own certs (she did write articles, she said), for promoting dangerous medicine with no ethics (and no license), for advertising on the board and for promoting a non-peer-reviewed book from 1992?
> 
> That has got to be some of the most insane spam I've ever seen.


You can report her if you want. I read that site and it's crazy town over there. 

When I was in the ER a few weeks ago I had these heart monitor things all over my chest and torso. When it was time to go to the room one of the techs asked if I minded if he took them off. 
All I could think was I just wanted to get up to a room and out of the ER. And if he got a stiffy looking at my breasts while I was about to die and coughing in his face then I just added a little bit of sunshine to the world. 
What do I care? Lol. My husband was right there. He didn't jump up and scream that no one but him could see me. Thank god or Id have to have him get a psych exam.


----------



## Vega

Disenchanted said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Personally I would have no problem with my GF, wife or daughter going to a male medical provider of their choice.


Disenchanted, if I showed my exh. you wrote here, he would have told me, "Disenchanted obviously DOESN'T CARE about his GF, wife or daughter!" 

I seriously DOUBT that exh would have told you that to your _face_...:rofl:


----------



## Disenchanted

diwali123 said:


> one of the techs asked if I minded


That does it, I'm changing jobs


----------



## Lyris

If my husband tried to prohibit me from doing anything, I would leave him. I'm not his property, I'm not under his control in any way. 

And I don't think I need to respect his feelings either, if they are so manifestly unreasonable, disrespectful and delusional. 

Fortunately my husband wouldn't even consider trying to forbid me from doing anything I thought was the right thing to do. He knows me and respects my judgement. He could also give two flying f*cks about men possibly viewing me in a sexual way. How does that affect him anyway?


----------



## mablenc

If this is the case podiatrist are the worse! Foot fetish 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

Lyris said:


> *If my husband tried to prohibit me from doing anything, I would leave him. I'm not his property, I'm not under his control in any way.
> 
> And I don't think I need to respect his feelings either, if they are so manifestly unreasonable, disrespectful and delusional. *
> 
> Fortunately my husband wouldn't even consider trying to forbid me from doing anything I thought was the right thing to do. He knows me and respects my judgement. He could also give two flying f*cks about men possibly viewing me in a sexual way. How does that affect him anyway?


This one really takes the prize.

See, I have been wanting to purchase a high end vehicle for almost a year now, a Range Rover SUV, not that we need a new vehicle, I just like how the Range looks.
I don't think I'm being irrational and we can afford it.

But my dear wife doesn't think it's a good idea, in fact she expressly forbids me to purchase it.
And I respect her feelings and opinions, and no, they are aren't irrational .
In fact , I think that it would be disrespectful of me to label any of her opinions as " irrational " simply because I see things differently to her. Whether or not something can be deemed irrational is highly subjective, and dependent on one's vantage point.
None of my wife's opinions are irrational even when she's wrong. She has every right to feel how she feels, she is MY WIFE,she puts up with all of my idiosyncrasies , so why can't I put up with her nuanced views too?

In our marriage we have what is called a Joint Policy Of Agreement which basically means that I am not allowed to do anything my wife isn't comfortable with or which she isn't fully enthusiastic about. The same applies to her, I could tell my wife that I'm not comfortable with X, Y, or Z and she respect that. The basis for our relation is respect, and interdependence , not autarchical independence.
Maybe that's why I married her, in the first place.

Six years ago I wanted to invest $300K in special type of mutual fund an invest company that had decades of performance down here was offering.
She wasn't comfortable with it, her gut instinct told her no. IMO there was no rational reason not to Invest in that company , I could have dismissed her feelings and thought that she was being " irrational " and " emotional", however I decided to respect her feelings.
In 2008, one year after , that company collapsed when global financial markets collapsed.
I would have lost our money if I had not listened to my " irrational " wife.

The more I read threads like these on TAM..,
The more I love and cherish my wife.

BTW, Both her dentist and her OBGYN are female, her choice.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Caribbean Man said:


> This one really takes the prize.


Did you miss this part?

"if they are so manifestly unreasonable, disrespectful and delusional. "

My hubs and I have the same relationship as you and your wife, but...

if he ever interferred with my healthcare providers, I'd kick his butt. 

But I know he would never, ever treat me like this.

Based on most of the posts I've read of yours, you and the OP are light years apart in the husband department.

You're a good one, the OP, well, the evidence speaks for itself.

Unless he's a troll....


----------



## Caribbean Man

LonelyinLove said:


> Did you miss this part?
> 
> "if they are so manifestly unreasonable, disrespectful and delusional. "
> 
> My hubs and I have the same relationship as you and your wife, but...
> 
> if he ever interferred with my healthcare providers, I'd kick his butt.
> 
> But I know he would never, ever treat me like this.
> 
> Based on most of the posts I've read of yours, you and the OP are light years apart in the husband department.
> 
> You're a good one, the OP, well, the evidence speaks for itself.
> 
> Unless he's a troll....


None of my wife's feelings are irrational in my eyes.
She MY WIFE, and she puts up with MY idiosyncrasies.It's manifestly unreasonable, disrespectful and delusional for me to think that her thoughts on _any_ issue that is bothering her about me is IRRATIONAL.

She is MY WIFE, for God's sake.
I don't speak of my wife or even_ think_ of her like that.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Caribbean Man said:


> None of my wife's feelings are irrational in my eyes.
> She MY WIFE, and she puts up with MY idiosyncrasies.It's manifestly unreasonable, disrespectful and delusional for me to think that her thoughts on _any_ issue that is bothering her about me is IRRATIONAL.
> 
> She is MY WIFE, for God's sake.
> I don't speak of my wife or even_ think_ of her like that.


Exactly.

The OP, however, is disrespectful, controlling, manipulative, and frankly, hypocritical.

Her feelings are unimportant to him. He wants HIS way, regardless of her feelings (he's not the one getting a pap smear, she is). Of course, he can get a lap dance over her objections.

He doesn't treat his wife like you treat yours. 

That is why you are seeing responses like the one you took umbrage with. The OP doesn't deserve consideration from his wife because he offers none.

Actually, the only thing he deserves is served.


----------



## Caribbean Man

LonelyinLove said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The OP, however, is disrespectful, controlling, manipulative, and frankly, hypocritical.
> 
> Her feelings are unimportant to him. He wants HIS way, regardless of her feelings (he's not the one getting a pap smear, she is). Of course, he can get a lap dance over her objections.
> 
> He doesn't treat his wife like you treat yours.
> 
> That is why you are seeing responses like the one you took umbrage with. The OP doesn't deserve consideration from his wife because he offers none.
> 
> Actually, the only thing he deserves is served.


And you are saying that Lyris statement about her divorcing her husband if he " forbids " her from doing anything is justified?

Exactly how does the OP's hypocrisy justify her saying _that_ about her husband?
I find that shocking.

Would I be justified if adopted the same dismissive stance to my wife's opinion about that Range Rover because the of the OP's attitude to his wife?


----------



## Starstarfish

The more I read or re-read Misty's posts, all I'm imagining is that episode of Family Guy where Peter's vision of his proctology exam and the reality are way off. 

CM you can't try and place a dynamic on a situation that isn't there. You can't surmise that the relationship you have and your Joint Policy Of Agreement would work for the OP. Because it quite clearly doesn't - it isn't a case of what's good for the goose is what's good for the gander. He wants his wife to follow your idea wherein she considers his feelings, (with others implying she's a bad wife because she doesn't) but he doesn't need to consider hers. He wants to be able to physically prevent her from going to the doctor by removing access to the family vehicle, because of possible sexuality while he himself visits strip clubs and get lap dances. 

What is his responsibility if any to follow suit? To consider her feelings and desires? There's no "joint policy" when one person doesn't participate, that's not a relationship, that's a dictatorship. 



> And you are saying that Lyris statement about her divorcing her husband if he " forbids " her from doing anything is justified?


Justified to whom? Every person is able to determine their boundaries and what is acceptable to them. To Lyris, apparently that behavior would be a dealbreaker. You and your wife have your own dynamic, CM, but that doesn't mean other people's feelings about how they wouldn't like that "veto" power doesn't make their feelings "unjustified." Whom does she need to justify that thought to? 

It's a simple thought - if Lyris' husband engaged in the same behaviors as the OP, she indicated she would divorce him.

Why is that shocking? People say it all the time on all kinds of threads all over TAM. "I'd never put up with that." "I'd show him the door." "I'd file the papers today."

Why in this instance is that thought so shocking?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Starstarfish said:


> The more I read or re-read Misty's posts, all I'm imagining is that episode of Family Guy where Peter's vision of his proctology exam and the reality are way off.
> 
> *CM you can't try and place a dynamic on a situation that isn't there. You can't surmise that the relationship you have and your Joint Policy Of Agreement would work for the OP.* Because it quite clearly doesn't - it isn't a case of what's good for the goose is what's good for the gander. He wants his wife to follow your idea wherein she considers his feelings, (with others implying she's a bad wife because she doesn't) but he doesn't need to consider hers. He wants to be able to physically prevent her from going to the doctor by removing access to the family vehicle, because of possible sexuality while he himself visits strip clubs and get lap dances.
> 
> What is his responsibility if any to follow suit? To consider her feelings and desires? There's no "joint policy" when one person doesn't participate, that's not a relationship, that's a dictatorship.
> 
> 
> 
> Justified to whom? Every person is able to determine their boundaries and what is acceptable to them. To Lyris, apparently that behavior would be a dealbreaker. You and your wife have your own dynamic, CM, but that doesn't mean other people's feelings about how they wouldn't like that "veto" power doesn't make their feelings "unjustified." Whom does she need to justify that thought to?
> 
> It's a simple thought - if Lyris' husband engaged in the same behaviors as the OP, she indicated she would divorce him.
> 
> Why is that shocking? People say it all the time on all kinds of threads all over TAM. "I'd never put up with that." "I'd show him the door." "I'd file the papers today."
> 
> Why in this instance is that thought so shocking?


Sorry Star,

But as far as I know, that joint policy of agreement "dynamic" is a fundamental principle of all marriages whether traditional or egalitarian.
I'm not trying to apply a " dynamic " that's not there , I'm simply stating a basic rule in life.

" _Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you._."

If you want your husband to pay attention to your feelings and emotions and not be judgemental about it, or threaten to pack up and leave , no matter how insecure you fear you may look, then you should at least respect him and know that sometimes there may be things he too would do or request that makes him look and feel insecure.

Threatening to leave is downright immature.

Discussing it and working it out is what works for us.

But if your husband threatening to leave you for things he deems you are being " irrational" about, works for _your _marriage, then maybe you're right.

Everything is relative.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I would consider my husband FEELINGS.. we would sit down and talk it out... I would do my best to put his mind at ease in every way possible...presenting my case, if HE had concerns with a male OBGYN..(never a problem here though)...

I tend to agree with *CM's attitude* in this (without taking the rest of this thread into consideration or what has been said about the OP, haven't been following at all )...just baffled this thread is still raging strong - so I tuned in. 

If you want a HIT thread...ask the silliest question imaginable..and you'll have a winner!


----------



## Starstarfish

> " Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.."


Okay, but again - that's quite clearly not what the OP does. 

And again, for myself and perhaps other women posting here, our feelings that this would be a dealbreaker has nothing to do with not considering feelings or not wanting to discuss things in a "mature" manner. But physically preventing you from doing things, and starting to rationalize preventing your access to the family car isn't a disagreement, that's a stepping stone to abuse. When a partner starts using physical intimidation and geographic restraint to impose their ideas, the entire dynamic of the situation has changed. 

He isn't requesting that she does something, there is no dialogue. He's already made his decision and expressed the lengths to which he's willing to go to impose that decision. 
And to some posters myself included, those lengths would be beyond my measure of what I'd feel comfortable with. 

I mean, that behavior wouldn't be acceptable about say - what type of bread she wants to buy at the grocery store. "Well then, I'm just not going to let you go until I get what I want!" Why does the nature of the topic being debated suddenly make that behavior more acceptable? And further, seemingly place the onus for the situation on the wife for not being considerate?


----------



## diwali123

Disenchanted said:


> That does it, I'm changing jobs


You can see much better looking women who are skinny online for free while you work in a much higher paying job. 
And they won't give you pneumonia. Just saying.


----------



## mablenc

TikiKeen said:


> Can we ban Medical Patient Modesty for not offering her own certs (she did write articles, she said), for promoting dangerous medicine with no ethics (and no license), for advertising on the board and for promoting a non-peer-reviewed book from 1992?
> 
> That has got to be some of the most insane spam I've ever seen.


I don't think is really an article, it's a written statement on her own website. No sources, but according to her they are "facts". She also says her "nurse" cousin admires her work. I'm guessing everyone else sees what we see. Oh the the book she recomends sells for .01 in amazon and has five reviews.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

Starstarfish said:


> Okay, but again - that's quite clearly not what the OP does.
> 
> And again, for myself and perhaps other women posting here, our feelings that this would be a dealbreaker has nothing to do with not considering feelings or not wanting to discuss things in a "mature" manner. But physically preventing you from doing things, and starting to rationalize preventing your access to the family car isn't a disagreement, that's a stepping stone to abuse. When a partner starts using physical intimidation and geographic restraint to impose their ideas, the entire dynamic of the situation has changed.
> 
> He isn't requesting that she does something, there is no dialogue. He's already made his decision and expressed the lengths to which he's willing to go to impose that decision.
> And to some posters myself included, those lengths would be beyond my measure of what I'd feel comfortable with.
> 
> I mean, that behavior wouldn't be acceptable about say - what type of bread she wants to buy at the grocery store. "Well then, I'm just not going to let you go until I get what I want!" Why does the nature of the topic being debated suddenly make that behavior more acceptable? And further, seemingly place the onus for the situation on the wife for not being considerate?


Lemme tell you something ,

Eary in our marriage I worked with one of our leading fashion and interior designer at her fashion house.
There are things my wife allowed to me to do without even questioning or asking openly showing insecurity.
She was strong where half of the women on this thread would have gotten jealous and left.

I used to manage models and at fashion meets / productions, I managed the dressing rooms and the models etc.
In case you didn't know , at the back of the changing room is gender neutral and models are mostly topless, no time for bras.
I told them what to wear and the order of appearance out on the ramp.
That was part of my job, I was paid handsomely for it.
How would you feel if your husband had a job like that, with 18 , 19 and 20 year old girls walking around , with their titties swinging all around?
How would you feel if you told him that you were uncomfortable with his job , and his response to you was that you were being
" irrational" and you should " get over it or get out of my life ?"

Hope you get my point.
I am not justifying the OP's actions, I'm simply stating that something is very wrong in someone stating thet their husband cannot object or forbid them to do anything , else they would divorce.
Are you saying that that is a healthy marriage dynamic?

The principle is what I'm talking about here.

I finally quit that job because temptation was all around, after parties, [email protected] must-attend-parties , social events and ridiculous work hours. Sometimes we worked on projects for the entire night, and we had to *sleep* over at the designer's mansion. Read in between the lines... It wasn't marriage friendly , and I saw an opportunity to start my own business.
My wife silently breathed a sigh of relief, and I still don't think she was being "irrational."

Marriage is a lot of give and take.


----------



## diwali123

Caribbean Man said:


> Lemme tell you something ,
> 
> Eary in our marriage I worked with one of our leading fashion and interior designer at her fashion house.
> There are things my wife allowed to me to do without even questioning or asking openly showing insecurity.
> She was strong where half of the women on this thread would have gotten jealous and left.
> 
> I used to manage models and at fashion meets / productions, I managed the dressing rooms and the models etc.
> In case you didn't know , at the back of the changing room is gender neutral and models are mostly topless, no time for bras.
> I told them what to wear and the order of appearance out on the ramp.
> That was part of my job, I was paid handsomely for it.
> How would you feel if your husband had a job like that, with 18 , 19 and 20 year old girls walking around , with their titties swinging all around?
> How would you feel if you told him that you were uncomfortable with his job , and his response to you was that you were being
> " irrational" and you should " get over it or get out of my life ?"
> 
> Hope you get my point.
> I am not justifying the OP's actions, I'm simply stating that something is very wrong in someone stating thet their husband cannot object or forbid them to do anything , else they would divorce.
> Are you saying that that is a healthy marriage dynamic?
> 
> The principle is what I'm talking about here.
> 
> I finally quit that job because temptation was all around, after parties, [email protected] must-attend-parties , social events and ridiculous work hours. Sometimes we worked on projects for the entire night, and we had to *sleep* over at the designer's mansion. Read in between the lines... It wasn't marriage friendly , and I saw an opportunity to start my own business.
> My wife silently breathed a sigh of relief, and I still don't think she was being "irrational."
> 
> Marriage is a lot of give and take.


But your wife didn't throw a fit and say "no way!" And threaten to take the car so you couldn't go to work. 
I don't think Id mind my h seeing models topless because he likes women who actually have boobs.  we actually went to a strip club and he was like "where are the boobs?" Lol. Lots of tiny skinny women. 

But what you describe is social situations, not a clinical medical situation. As far as I know OB/GYNs don't go to ****tail parties with their patients and spend the night with them.


----------



## mablenc

Caribbean Man said:


> Lemme tell you something ,
> 
> Eary in our marriage I worked with one of our leading fashion and interior designer at her fashion house.
> There are things my wife allowed to me to do without even questioning or asking openly showing insecurity.
> She was strong where half of the women on this thread would have gotten jealous and left.
> 
> I used to manage models and at fashion meets / productions, I managed the dressing rooms and the models etc.
> In case you didn't know , at the back of the changing room is gender neutral and models are mostly topless, no time for bras.
> I told them what to wear and the order of appearance out on the ramp.
> That was part of my job, I was paid handsomely for it.
> How would you feel if your husband had a job like that, with 18 , 19 and 20 year old girls walking around , with their titties swinging all around?
> How would you feel if you told him that you were uncomfortable with his job , and his response to you was that you were being
> " irrational" and you should " get over it or get out of my life ?"
> 
> Hope you get my point.
> I am not justifying the OP's actions, I'm simply stating that something is very wrong in someone stating thet their husband cannot object or forbid them to do anything , else they would divorce.
> Are you saying that that is a healthy marriage dynamic?
> 
> The principle is what I'm talking about here.
> 
> I finally quit that job because temptation was all around, after parties, [email protected] must-attend-parties , social events and ridiculous work hours. Sometimes we worked on projects for the entire night, and we had to *sleep* over at the designer's mansion. Read in between the lines... It wasn't marriage friendly , and I saw an opportunity to start my own business.
> My wife silently breathed a sigh of relief, and I still don't think she was being "irrational."
> 
> Marriage is a lot of give and take.


You know I always agree and respect you, so with all due respect I disagree with you here. This is a once a year visit regarding her health. Yours was a career choice, you did this on a daily basis and I'm assuming enjoyed your job. This is a check up and it is about 4 minutes checking and scraping your lady parts. It's an insult to her for him to feel threaten by this visit. It means he doesn't trust her and he thinks all doctors are perverts. 

By the way when I said you enjoyed your job, I'm not talking about you enjoying the boobies in the dress room.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Disenchanted

OMG these two issues are so completely unrelated.

A major purchase effects households finances, has a large impact on both people. Assuming finances are shared.

There is absolutely ZERO impact to the couple on health decisions that an individual makes for themselves.


----------



## Caribbean Man

mablenc said:


> You know I always agree and respect you, so with all due respect I disagree with you here. This is a once a year visit regarding her health. Yours was a career choice, you did this on a daily basis and I'm assuming enjoyed your job. This is a check up and it is about 4 minutes checking and scraping your lady parts. It's an insult to her for him to feel threaten by this visit. It means he doesn't trust her and he thinks all doctors are perverts.
> 
> By the way when I said you enjoyed your job, I'm not talking about you enjoying the boobies in the dress room.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is what I just posted:

_".*.I am not justifying the OP's actions, I'm simply stating that something is very wrong in someone stating that their husband cannot object or forbid them to do anything , else they would divorce.*
Are you saying that that is a healthy marriage dynamic?.."_

If your husband said that about you , how would you honestly react?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> OMG these two issues are so completely unrelated.
> 
> A major purchase effects households finances, has a large impact on both people. Assuming finances are shared.
> 
> There is absolutely ZERO impact to the couple on health decisions that an individual makes for themselves.


My wife and I have separate accounts .

But she's my wife and even though I could afford it, if she objects I listen to her. 
She always has my best interest at heart, that's why I listen to her and always value her opinion.

I think that's called respect.


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> My wife and I have separate accounts .
> 
> But she's my wife and even though I could afford it, if she objects I listen to her.
> She always has my best interest at heart, that's why I listen to her and always value her opinion.
> 
> I think that's called respect.


I don't know, maybe I am weird. I would just never question my partner's health care decisions, it's about the most personal thing there is.

Of course I would listen to my wife's concerns on any topic, but I would never marry one who wouldn't "allow" me to see the doctor of my choice. That would be one very screwed up wife.


----------



## turnera

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


You're kidding, right?


----------



## TikiKeen

CM left off this one caveat, from the MB site itself, on the POJA page:

"But there is are exceptions to this policy: If the health or safety of a spouse is at risk, it should not be followed. For example, if physical abuse takes place in marriage, it should be reported to authorities by the abused spouse even though the offending spouse would not agree. Exposing infidelity is another example of an exception because the emotional health of a betrayed spouse is at risk by keeping it to him or herself. Some spouses try to use this policy to keep the other spouse from having any normal contact with the outside world. Marriage should provide a safe and healthy enviroment for both spouses. So if you feel that your health or safety is at risk by following this policy, you should not follow it."

So yeah, in this case the POJA is not an option because the H is abusive. If you fail to see that, you need an education on the dynamics of spousal abuse, which I'm sure plenty of survivors on the board would be happy to teach, with links to respected and peer-reviewed organizations.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> I don't know, maybe I am weird. I would just never question my partner's health care decisions, it's about the most personal thing there is.
> 
> Of course I would listen to my wife's concerns on any topic, but I would never marry one who wouldn't "allow" me to see the doctor of my choice. That would be one very screwed up wife.


Dude,
I've never " questioned " my wife's health care options.

She comes to me and ask: "_ Hun , what do you think?_"
That's what a healthy marriage looks like and how it operates, IMO.

Funny thing is , she usually handles all of that healthcare stuff for both of us, health insurance providers and all.I have no time to bother with that stuff. I just tell her to go ahead , just double check to make sure. If anything happens that she cannot handle , call me.

But we must be a " weird" couple, we always seek each other's opinion on anything we do.


----------



## Disenchanted

Well that's all good with me. 

That being said I do not believe that marriage is a _contract of ownership_ and "allowing" or "prohibiting" are any part of any healthy relationship, whatsoever. No question, the concept itself is absolutely ludicrous to me.


----------



## mablenc

Caribbean Man said:


> This is what I just posted:
> 
> _".*.I am not justifying the OP's actions, I'm simply stating that something is very wrong in someone stating that their husband cannot object or forbid them to do anything , else they would divorce.*
> Are you saying that that is a healthy marriage dynamic?.."_
> 
> If your husband said that about you , how would you honestly react?


If I were prohibited from seeing a male doctor for something as important as a pap smear it would indicate to me, that something is very wrong in my marriage. I grew up in the this type of atmosphere as I mentioned in earlier post. Therefor, I made sure to find a spouse that can respect me. My husband has never questioned me in any similar way. When he has brought up his concerns, they do weight heavily on my decisions. However, as he has stated many times it's my choice. He has also told me that if I ever have to make a decision that impacts the family that he knows that I will make the best decision and will have his full support.


----------



## Caribbean Man

TikiKeen said:


> CM left off this one caveat, from the MB site itself, on the POJA page:
> 
> "But there is are exceptions to this policy: If the health or safety of a spouse is at risk, it should not be followed. For example, if physical abuse takes place in marriage, it should be reported to authorities by the abused spouse even though the offending spouse would not agree. Exposing infidelity is another example of an exception because the emotional health of a betrayed spouse is at risk by keeping it to him or herself. Some spouses try to use this policy to keep the other spouse from having any normal contact with the outside world. Marriage should provide a safe and healthy enviroment for both spouses. So if you feel that your health or safety is at risk by following this policy, you should not follow it."
> 
> So yeah, in this case the POJA is not an option because the H is abusive. If you fail to see that, you need an education on the dynamics of spousal abuse, which I'm sure plenty of survivors on the board would be happy to teach, with links to respected and peer-reviewed organizations.



This is what I posted in reference to the OP's statement.

Please read:

"..*I am not justifying the OP's actions, I'm simply stating that something is very wrong in someone stating thet their husband cannot object or forbid them to do anything , else they would divorce.*
Are you saying that that is a healthy marriage dynamic?"


----------



## Caribbean Man

mablenc said:


> When he has brought up his concerns, they do weight heavily on my decisions.


And this^^^ is the point I'm making.
Taking each other's concerns into consideration, not dismissing them as 
" irrational."


----------



## turnera

Caribbean Man said:


> This is what I just posted:
> 
> _".*.I am not justifying the OP's actions, I'm simply stating that something is very wrong in someone stating that their husband cannot object or forbid them to do anything , else they would divorce.*
> Are you saying that that is a healthy marriage dynamic?.."_
> 
> If your husband said that about you , how would you honestly react?


To be fair, though, from how Jack posts, it's clear he feels in charge of their marriage AND of her. THAT is not a healthy marriage dynamic, either.


----------



## Disenchanted

There's a HUGE difference between "taking into consideration" and "forbid".


----------



## Caribbean Man

turnera said:


> To be fair, though, from how Jack posts, it's clear he feels in charge of their marriage AND of her. THAT is not a healthy marriage dynamic, either.


And I fully agree.
But I was referencing Lyris's categoric statement about if her husband objected to _anything_ she wanted to do, she would divorce.

That cannot be a healthy dynamic.


----------



## TikiKeen

Turnera summed it up well. OP is (a)fake, or (b)disturbed. I'd lay it on the line with an H like that too. Just after I filed for D. mable made clear what is the dynamic she and her H have, and it's worlds away from OP.

CM, it appears you're just being antagonistic. ETA: you're picking and choosing which parts of posts you want, and disregarding the context in which those statements are said.


----------



## diwali123

Here's a question: would you be ok with spouse getting a massage from the OS? What about a gay member of SS?


----------



## Disenchanted

I wonder how long this silly thread will continue.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> Well that's all good with me.
> 
> That being said I do not believe that marriage is a _contract of ownership_ and "allowing" or "prohibiting" are any part of any healthy relationship, whatsoever. No question, the concept itself is absolutely ludicrous to me.


Are you saying that if I decide to have sex with one of my employees , my wife has no legal recourse, and has no right to feel offended?


----------



## Caribbean Man

TikiKeen said:


> Turnera summed it up well. OP is (a)fake, or (b)disturbed. I'd lay it on the line with an H like that too. Just after I filed for D. mable made clear what is the dynamic she and her H have, and it's worlds away from OP.
> 
> CM, it appears you're just being antagonistic. ETA: you're picking and choosing which parts of posts you want, and disregarding the context in which those statements are said.


No.
You are being antagonistic towards me , cherry picking and projecting.
I clearly stated that I didn't support what the OP was doing, more that FIVE times in the last ten minutes.
And I also said it clearly in response to your post.


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> Are you saying that if I decide to have sex with one of my employees , my wife has no legal recourse, and has no right to feel offended?


I'm not going to argue against a non sequitur


----------



## Caribbean Man

diwali123 said:


> Here's a question: would you be ok with spouse getting a massage from the OS? What about a gay member of SS?



You must be joking.

My wife has gotten massages from a PROFESSIONAL masseuse .
What does it matter if he's gay?

There are rules that guide what a masseuse is supposed to do and if she feels violated I have legal recourse.

What's you point?


----------



## TikiKeen

This board needs the link to "your logical fallacy" sticky-posted at the top of every section. 

CM, do what you want, but please stop acting like there's something wrong with others pointing out when you do it. Sure, you said it was wrong five times...just after you cherry-picked at least two other posters' stuff. This isn't the only thread either. Hypotheticals...sheesh.

So...where's Jack?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> I'm not going to argue against a non sequitur


ad hominem?


----------



## mablenc

Caribbean Man said:


> And this^^^ is the point I'm making.
> Taking each other's concerns into consideration, not dismissing them as
> " irrational."


Maybe I didn't make it clear. If I were forbidden to see a male doctor I would still go. My health comes first and I have a child to care for so, my health comes first. Anything reasonable I will consider, what the OP is asking is not reasonable.


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> ad hominem?


When a man presents himself and his opinion, asks for and gets a response, up or down, it is not ad hominem.

Dude actively prevented his wife from going to her doctor after she carefully and thoughfully weighed his input and decided that his judgement was off.

I agree with her.


----------



## Caribbean Man

TikiKeen said:


> This board needs the link to "your logical fallacy" sticky-posted at the top of every section.
> 
> CM, do what you want, but please stop acting like there's something wrong with others pointing out when you do it. Sure, you said it was wrong five times...just after you cherry-picked at least two other posters' stuff. This isn't the only thread either. Hypotheticals...sheesh.
> 
> So...where's Jack?



Sorry, but I don't quite get why it's ok for you to misrepresent what I said and it's not ok for me to point that out?

lol,
You really _do_ believe what you put in your signature?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> Dude actively prevented his wife from going to her doctor after she carefully and thoughfully weighed his input and decided that his judgement was off.
> 
> I agree with her.


And I'm saying that I too, fully agree with her.
So what are we disagreeing about?


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> And I'm saying that I too, fully agree with her.
> So what are we disagreeing about?


I think we are disagreeing about whether a spouse _owns_ his/her partner.

"Forbid" and "allow" _are not part of a marriage._


----------



## mablenc

Caribbean Man said:


> And I'm saying that I too, fully agree with her.
> So what are we disagreeing about?


Ok, *blocking the aim from posters* break it up, he's with us


----------



## Caribbean Man

mablenc said:


> Maybe I didn't make it clear. If I were forbidden to see a male doctor I would still go. My health comes first and I have a child to care for so, my health comes first. Anything reasonable I will consider, what the OP is asking is not reasonable.


And maybe you not getting what I objected to in this thread.

I'm objecting to the idea that someone would think that their husband, or even wife cannot object to them doing anything.

I categorically state the OP is wrong just like I categorically state that Lyris is wrong, if that's her attitude towards her husband.
Two wrongs cannot make a right.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> I think we are disagreeing about whether a spouse _owns_ his/her partner.
> 
> "Forbid" and "allow" _are not part of a marriage._


Dude,
There are wives on this thread that FORBIDS their husbands from looking at porn.

Are they wrong?


----------



## Philat

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


I'm a little behind the curve here, but FWIW my wife has almost always seen a male OB-GYN. No problem on my end.


----------



## turnera

Jack I said:


> Again,just because* you ask your wife* not to do something doesn't mean that you don't respect the marriage and you don't see her as being equal.It's not controlling,it's something I'm just not comfortable with.


Um, didn't you FORBID her to do something?

Big difference, Jack.


----------



## turnera

Jack I said:


> We only have one car that we use,which is mine.


And she has only one vagina, which is hers. 

Should she remove it from your use, too, if she feels like it?


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> Dude,
> There are wives on this thread that FORBIDS their husbands from looking at porn.
> 
> Are they wrong?


No, the marital contract forbids it. Depending on the understanding of the vows. It's an _agreement._


----------



## Disenchanted

turnera said:


> And she has only one vagina, which is hers.
> 
> Should she remove it from your use, too, if she feels like it?


Love this.


----------



## diwali123

turnera said:


> And she has only one vagina, which is hers.
> 
> Should she remove it from your use, too, if she feels like it?


In reading the medical modesty site, what strikes me is how many people believe that a human being looking at something somehow has some magical power to change what they are looking at. Even more so they believe that another person's thoughts are so incredibly powerful that they have an impact on what they are thinking about. 

I don't know what I'm trying to say; it just seems like very childish thinking.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> No, the marital contract forbids it. Depending on the understanding of the vows. It's an _agreement._


The marital contract does _not _forbid porn. I've never seen that.

But if a wife hates porn for whatever reason, as " illogical" as she may seem, she has every right to forbid or protest or block or whatever it takes to get him to pay attention to her concerns about porn.
A husband is supposed to respect his wife's feeling on any issue. doesn't matter if he thinks he has a right to view porn or whatever.
They should discuss it like adults.The same applies to every single part of marriage.

Same thing can be said of stripclubs , or any decision the husband takes which she has not been consulted on and which she does not support.


----------



## Disenchanted

Some folks consider strip clubs and porn etc as infidelity. I'm not one to argue with what they agree on.

Perhaps they could put in the vows "and no male doctors for childbirth, pelvic exams, no male nurses either, until death do you part".

Again, non sequitur.


----------



## TikiKeen

CM, thanks for the insult. I appreciate it.

ETA: It's telling that I (and others) took issue with the content of your posting, and (again, with me) you went straight to insults. That's unbecoming.

Again, where's Jack?


----------



## LonelyinLove

TikiKeen said:


> CM, thanks for the insult. I appreciate it.
> 
> ETA: It's telling that I (and others) took issue with the content of your posting, and (again, with me) you went straight to insults. That's unbecoming.
> 
> Again, where's Jack?


Jack's conversing with Misty on what color burka he should get for his wife....


----------



## diwali123

LonelyinLove said:


> Jack's conversing with Misty on what color burka he should get for his wife....


We all need to be protected from "THE MALE GAZE".....


----------



## mablenc

LonelyinLove said:


> Jack's conversing with Misty on what color burka he should get for his wife....


Actually it should be black, you can't trust colors on a female they are a bad influence.


----------



## diwali123

mablenc said:


> Actually it should be black, you can't trust colors on a female they are a bad influence.


But black is sexy.


----------



## mablenc

diwali123 said:


> But black is sexy.


Darn, vomit green maybe?


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

LonelyinLove said:


> Jack's conversing with Misty on what color burka he should get for his wife....


Burka? More like chastity belt that can only be unlocked by a female non-lesbian physician.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> Some folks consider strip clubs and porn etc as infidelity. I'm not one to argue with what they agree on.
> 
> Perhaps they could put in the vows "and no male doctors for childbirth, pelvic exams, no male nurses either, until death do you part".
> 
> Again, non sequitur.


Well Disenchated.,
Lets reason this out like men.
Forget the sideshow.

If some folks consider porn and stripclubs cheating, wouldn't a joint policy agreement help them work through their differences?

Instead of one person saying I see nothing wrong with X,Y,Z, and the other person saying they consider X,Y,Z to be cheating, in this case X, Y Z being strip clubs and porn, they would simply refer to the Joint policy?

What do you think?


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> Well Disenchated.,
> Lets reason this out like men.
> Forget the sideshow.
> 
> If some folks consider porn and stripclubs cheating, wouldn't a joint policy agreement help them work through their differences?
> 
> Instead of one person saying I see nothing wrong with X,Y,Z, and the other person saying they consider X,Y,Z to be cheating, in this case X, Y Z being strip clubs and porn, they would simply refer to the Joint policy?
> 
> What do you think?


I suppose that would be reasonable, sure. However, it would be foolish to marry someone with a porn or strip club addiction if you consider it to be infidelity. These are the things we should learn about each other before getting married.

So in the case of OP I suppose if his wife knew he was a misogynistic over bearing controlling Neanderthal when she married him, then I suppose he is in the right.

I take particular issue with the concept of _ownership_. Marriage is not _ownership_.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> I suppose that would be reasonable, sure. However, it would be foolish to marry someone with a porn or strip club addiction if you consider it to be infidelity. These are the things we should learn about each other before getting married.
> 
> So in the case of OP I suppose if his wife knew he was a misogynistic over bearing controlling Neanderthal when she married him, then I suppose he is in the right.
> 
> I take particular issue with the concept of _ownership_. Marriage is not _ownership_.



I understand what you are trying to say, but hear me out.

If there is a joint policy agreement , in a normal , healthy marriage ,doesn't that give both parties a veto power?


----------



## turnera

Sure. Unless the one who 'owns' the car refuses to let the other use it if she doesn't do what HE wants.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I referring to a HEALTHY marriage,where is not an imbalance of power. Not the OP's marriage.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Caribbean Man said:


> If there is a joint policy agreement , in a normal , healthy marriage ,doesn't that give both parties a veto power?


BINGO.

You think the OP has a normal, healthy marriage?

I'd like to say to you, because you are one of my favorite posters here...STOP comparing yourself and your marriage to the OP.

Apples and oranges...

People are responding to the OP and venting about that situation.


----------



## TikiKeen

Aside, for a story:

A Medieval knight was leaving his estate to go to battle, a battle his kingdom was sure to lose, with many casualties. The night before he was to leave, knowing he faced almost certain death, he fastened a chastity belt upon his wife, to assure that no one else would 'have her' while he was gone. His wife reluctantly agreed at his insistence, knowing that daily life is more difficult while wearing one, and knowing that if he died, she would forever be wearing it and never be able to remarry.

He gave the key to his best friend, who was staying behind to guard the nearby village.

The next morning, as he rode down the tree-lined path of their castle estate, his friend ran behind him, shouting "You gave me the wrong key!"

Moral: Possession is not the ultimate protection.


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> I understand what you are trying to say, but hear me out.
> 
> If there is a joint policy agreement , in a normal , healthy marriage ,doesn't that give both parties a veto power?


yep.

key word here -- *agreement*.


----------



## Caribbean Man

LonelyinLove said:


> BINGO.
> 
> You think the OP has a normal, healthy marriage?
> 
> I'd like to say to you, because you are one of my favorite posters here...STOP comparing yourself and your marriage to the OP.
> 
> Apples and oranges...
> 
> People are responding to the OP and venting about that situation.


And I'm saying to you, I'm not comparing myself to the op.
Neither do I have the need to vent.

I'm just trying to point this thread in a certain direction.

Why are people so afraid to discuss the concept of Joint policy and how it's supposed to work?
Because if there _was_ a proper balance of power in the OP's relationship, this issue as well as others wouldn't be a problem.

Therein lies the problem


----------



## turnera

Caribbean Man said:


> Because if there _was_ a proper balance of power in the OP's relationship, this issue as well as others wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Therein lies the problem


Very true. I'd like to hear more about how their relationship works day to day.


----------



## TikiKeen

Good luck with that, Turnera. He's not back from the chastity belt shop yet. It's right next to the car shop, where he's probably getting a finger reader placed on the car so she can't use it.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> yep.
> 
> key word here -- *agreement*.


veto power
Web definitions
*A veto *– Latin for "I forbid" – is the power to unilaterally stop an official action. 
Veto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*veto*
ˈviːtəʊ/Submit
noun
*1*.
a constitutional right to reject a decision or proposal made by a lawmaking body.
"neither state was given a veto over amendments to the Act"
synonyms:	rejection, vetoing, dismissal, denial, declination, turndown; More
antonyms:	approval, OK
any ban or prohibition.
"his veto on our drinking after the meal was annoying"

verb
*verb: veto*; 3rd person present: vetoes; past tense: vetoed; past participle: vetoed; gerund or present participle: vetoing
1.
exercise a veto against (a decision or proposal).
"the president vetoed the bill"
synonyms:	reject, turn down, throw out, dismiss, say ‘no’ to, rule against, overrule, rule out, quash; More
............................................................................................


My wife didn't agree that I should enter into a business importing textiles from China ,with a woman she thought was " too friendly" for her comfort.
The woman was older than me, much more experienced in that business, and had the connections.

She tried to forbid me, because of how she felt about that woman. I didn't listen to her at first. All I saw was the opportunity to make lots of money, for both of us.
Back then I didn't know anything about " Joint Policy ."

What woke me up was when she called my wife on the phone and dissed her. When I reached hope my wife was in tears.
Nobody , absolutely nobody disses my wife.

I call that woman , cussed her and the day she was born and there ended that " business opportunity"

A husband or wife can forbid, even though they cannot force their partner to stop doing something.


----------



## Disenchanted

What does JPA stand for?


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> What does JPA stand for?


Java Persistence API.

Oh wait. Context matters.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> What does JPA stand for?


Its JPOA

It's Joint Policy Of Agreement.

It simply means that either partner does nothing which the other partner is is either opposed to or isn't fully enthusiastic about.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> veto power
> Web definitions
> *A veto *– Latin for "I forbid" – is the power to unilaterally stop an official action.
> Veto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *veto*
> ˈviːtəʊ/Submit
> noun
> *1*.
> a constitutional right to reject a decision or proposal made by a lawmaking body.
> "neither state was given a veto over amendments to the Act"
> synonyms:	rejection, vetoing, dismissal, denial, declination, turndown; More
> antonyms:	approval, OK
> any ban or prohibition.
> "his veto on our drinking after the meal was annoying"
> 
> verb
> *verb: veto*; 3rd person present: vetoes; past tense: vetoed; past participle: vetoed; gerund or present participle: vetoing
> 1.
> exercise a veto against (a decision or proposal).
> "the president vetoed the bill"
> synonyms:	reject, turn down, throw out, dismiss, say ‘no’ to, rule against, overrule, rule out, quash; More
> ............................................................................................
> 
> 
> My wife didn't agree that I should enter into a business importing textiles from China ,with a woman she thought was " too friendly" for her comfort.
> The woman was older than me, much more experienced in that business, and had the connections.
> 
> She tried to forbid me, because of how she felt about that woman. I didn't listen to her at first. All I saw was the opportunity to make lots of money, for both of us.
> Back then I didn't know anything about " Joint Policy ."
> 
> What woke me up was when she called my wife on the phone and dissed her. When I reached hope my wife was in tears.
> Nobody , absolutely nobody disses my wife.
> 
> I call that woman , cussed her and the day she was born and there ended that " business opportunity"
> 
> A husband or wife can forbid, even though they cannot force their partner to stop doing something.


My wife and I generally follow POJA. So we each have veto power.

Policy OF Joint Agreement. Swicth the letters around and it is the same thing.


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> Its JPOA
> 
> It's Joint Policy Of *Agreement.*


----------



## Caribbean Man

Don't worry,
Took me some time to grasp this concept too.

In fact, early in our marriage it was heading for the rocks.
Lucky for us , our good friend was an excellent marriage counsellor.
The rest is history.


----------



## Disenchanted

Lol this conversatoin is hilarious.

If I agree to give my spouse veto power then we are in agreement.

If she just decides to one day up and control my personal decisions that is a different animal altogether.


----------



## Entropy3000

TikiKeen said:


> Good luck with that, Turnera. He's not back from the chastity belt shop yet. It's right next to the car shop, where he's probably getting a finger reader placed on the car so she can't use it.


In a good marriage I do not think we are just free to do what ever we want in a vaccuum from the partnership that is marriage. 

I do not see his request that she get a female doctor as controlling at all. In fact I see her NOT respecting his request to be disresepctful of his feeling sn and in its own way controlling.

Just my opinion but I think too many spouses are worried about power and independence. I think if you need this level of independence you should be single.

I think seeing this male doctor is actually a power game she is playing.

This is not something that is important to me with my wife but if it was I would not accept it. I then have a choice. IF having a male doctor was more important to her than I was then I know I am with the wrong woman. She could feel the same way.

So I suggest he tell his wife this is not acceptable to him. She can choose to ignore him. Then he knows she is really not into this marriage thing. I suggest that this is just a symptom in their marriage of bigger issues. Probably both ways.


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> Lol this conversatoin is hilarious.
> 
> If I agree to give my spouse veto power then we are in agreement.
> 
> If she just decides to one day up and control my personal decisions that is a different animal altogether.


Well, before you do the knee jerk I repspectfully suggest you actually look into the concept. Perhaps your login name says it all. LOL. You really have to have a postive attitude for POJA to work. Nothing works if you do not want it to.

The idea is that you work things out. Do you feel all of your personal decisions are not her concern? Really?

What we do effects our spouse. In general I could care less about many of the "prersonal" decisions my wife makes. But many of those decisions I do care about. Where do you draw the line? If there is a personal decision I make or my wife makes it is all on the table to discuss. Basically one has to be a complete @$$hole to dismiss their spouse on these types of things. Think about it. Something matters to your spouse and you don't care. WTF over. One should be about meeting your spouses needs. IF you feel you are being taken advantage of ... leave the marriage because they are not for you.

Sorry, I confess I am losing my patience here on TAM with those who are unwilling to alter to their spouse. Those who care more about their personal freedoms than loving their partner. If you have to treat your spouse as an advisary then indeed they are not your spouse.

There is way too much pain here on TAM over what should be a very simple thing. The guy does not like his wife seeing a male doctor who does her pelvic exams. Ok fine. Not my issue BUT why is this such a problem for folks. Get a life people. If this is really too big of an inconvenience for his wife, she is probably not worth trusting or keeping anyway because she is being way too petty. She may be standing her ground for some other reason. He does not want some other guy in her cooch. So what? This does not make him a bad guy. It does make her a not so good wife if she does it anyway. YMMV.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Entropy3000 said:


> In a good marriage I do not think we are just free to do what ever we want in a vaccuum from the partnership that is marriage.
> 
> I do not see his request that she get a female doctor as controlling at all. In fact I see her NOT respecting his request to be disresepctful of his feeling sn and in its own way controlling.
> 
> Just my opinion but I think too many spouses are worried about power and independence. I think if you need this level of independence you should be single.
> 
> I think seeing this male doctor is actually a power game she is playing.
> 
> This is not something that is important to me with my wife but if it was I would not accept it. I then have a choice. IF having a male doctor was more important to her than I was then I know I am with the wrong woman. She could feel the same way.
> 
> So I suggest he tell his wife this is not acceptable to him. She can choose to ignore him. Then he knows she is really not into this marriage thing. I suggest that this is just a symptom in their marriage of bigger issues. Probably both ways.


Clearly you have not read any of his other posts. The one were he said he would rent a hooker if his wife doesn't have anal sex with him or one where he asked for tips on how he could have sex with her while she is sleeping. You're right though, she should be single.


----------



## Faithful Wife

We use the POJA and I really love using it. But it can't be used at all unless the spouse's both agree to use it equally.


----------



## turnera

Entropy3000 said:


> I think seeing this male doctor is actually a power game she is playing.


That's a stretch and something we know absolutely nothing about from out here to make such a claim. In fact, I'd list the other way, as he has admitted he has forbidden her to do OTHER things as well.


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> yep.
> 
> key word here -- *agreement*.


Right. He did not agree for her to have a male doctor. If you read up on POJA you will find that this is how it is used.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> Lol this conversatoin is hilarious.
> 
> If I agree to give my spouse veto power then we are in agreement.
> 
> If she just decides to one day up and control my personal decisions that is a different animal altogether.


Would you knowingly marry a schizophrenic woman?
I think not.
Can a person's mental condition deteriorate over time?
Yes.
In that case you should encourage your wife, if you love her to seek medical attention.
The dynamics of the marriage has obviously been altered.


----------



## turnera

Entropy3000 said:


> The guy does not like his wife seeing a male doctor who does her pelvic exams. Ok fine. Not my issue BUT why is this such a problem for folks. Get a life people. If this is really too big of an inconvenience for his wife, she is probably not worth trusting or keeping anyway because she is being way too petty.


If this was the ONLY thing he had said, I could see your point. But he clearly isn't this innocent, loving, giving person who cares only for her and her best interests. Read the rest of his posts.


----------



## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> We use the POJA and I really love using it. But it can't be used at all unless the spouse's both agree to use it equally.


Yes, in fact just the attitude is what is important. Caring about your spouses input and behaving like a partner.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Faithful Wife said:


> We use the POJA and I really love using it. * But it can't be used at all unless the spouse's both agree to use it equally.*


Correct.


----------



## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> If this was the ONLY thing he had said, I could see your point. But he clearly isn't this innocent, loving, giving person who cares only for her and her best interests. Read the rest of his posts.


Ok. I can go there. I am ONLY addressing this thread.

But I see your point. He may very well be a total jerk.

She may choose to stand her ground on this because of the bigger picture. If so then maybe they should not be together at all.


----------



## Disenchanted

Entropy3000 said:


> Right. He did not agree for her to have a male doctor. If you read up on POJA you will find that this is how it is used.


irrelevant, they don't have a POJA


----------



## TikiKeen

Indeed, Disenchanted.

They have DAISNAID (Do As I Say, Not As I Do).


----------



## Disenchanted

Entropy3000 said:


> Perhaps your login name says it all. LOL.


Well now I'm convinced, lol.


----------



## Entropy3000

TikiKeen said:


> Indeed, Disenchanted.
> 
> They have DAISNAID (Do As I Say, Not As I Do).


I think if you have a spouse like this you need to RUN.

Respectfully Undo the Nonesense.

This is not a marriage if it is like that. But I see all too often here people who are unwilling to try anything that cramps their style. Perhaps they have just given up. I get that. 

If you have to be in a power struggle with your spouse you have already lost. We all go through issues and have to have a way to do conflict resolution. But some folks just do not want to be married..


----------



## Faithful Wife

I would do nearly anything my H asked me, including not seeing a male doc and wearing a burka and a chastity belt. We'd make the burka and chastity belt into a hot sex game (and I can think of a few ways I would "restrain" him in clothing and leather as well). On the doc thing, if he asked me not to see a male, he would have some good reason for it or he wouldn't ask. But I am saying these things already knowing him, knowing he isn't a pyscho with double standards, and knowing that his only goal is keeping me all to himself.


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> Well now I'm convinced, lol.


Maybe a InItForTheHaul. Or ILoveMyWifey.

I am true to form with my name.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Entropy...I think the only reason people are disagreeing about POJA in this case (the OP) is that this husband seems totally off base on soooo many things.


----------



## TikiKeen

Entropy, I was referring to OP, not you, not me and not any other poster.


----------



## diwali123

Entropy3000 said:


> Maybe a InItForTheHaul. Or ILoveMyWifey.
> 
> I am true to form with my name.


Dis do you love your wittle wifey?


----------



## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> I would do nearly anything my H asked me, including not seeing a male doc and wearing a burka and a chastity belt. We'd make the burka and chastity belt into a hot sex game (and I can think of a few ways I would "restrain" him in clothing and leather as well). *On the doc thing, if he asked me not to see a male, he would have some good reason for it or he wouldn't ask. But I am saying these things already knowing him, knowing he isn't a pyscho with double standards, and knowing that his only goal is keeping me all to himself.*


You know you joke but it amazes me that so many folks on TAM see the least little things as going to a burka. The black and white view.

Like not seeing a male doctor is like living in Saudi Arabia. 

But you hit the nail on the head. What is in red is the assumption. This is why IF this is such a big deal there are way bigger issues. This should be a very simple thing. If it is not then wow. There are bigger issues.


----------



## Entropy3000

diwali123 said:


> Dis do you love your wittle wifey?


Most of the time. I loved her twice last night.

Once for tomorrow and one just for today.


----------



## Entropy3000

TikiKeen said:


> Entropy, I was referring to OP, not you, not me and not any other poster.


Yup. With some folks you have to read their other threads to get the bigger picture. I am going to pass on that this time. I get that there are bigger issues here.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Entropy said: "Like not seeing a male doctor is like living is Saudi Arabia."

I think this is only feeling that way on this thread due to this H's other severe types of controlling behavior...which do, in fact, sort of sound like a Saudia Arabia type mind set (meaning only the OP has that mind set, not others.)


----------



## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> Entropy said: "Like not seeing a male doctor is like living is Saudi Arabia."
> 
> I think this is only feeling that way on this thread due to this H's other severe types of controlling behavior...which do, in fact, sort of sound like a Saudia Arabia type mind set (meaning only the OP has that mind set, not others.)


He has not made a lot of friends here.


----------



## Disenchanted

I think POJA concept is fantastic. I even think OP should institute it.

But I also think if he decides to do that, his wife should divorce his ass as quickly as possible. He is an abuser plain and simple.

And who cares about my moniker or my story or whatever, all irrelevant.


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> I think POJA concept is fantastic. I even think OP should institute it.
> 
> But I also think if he decides to do that, his wife should divorce his ass as quickly as possible. He is an abuser plain and simple.
> 
> And who cares about my moniker or my story or whatever, all irrelevant.


I am changing my name to DivorceTheirAss.


----------



## Disenchanted

You can't have a valid POJA with a lunatic.


----------



## TikiKeen

I plan on spending my afternoon mentally high-fiving Dis.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

It really comes down to this, the OP doesn't view women as anything other than sex objects therefore he assumes all men feels as he does, including medical professionals. That is exactly the reason why women in Saudi Arabia are forced to wear the garb that they do. 

The responses here make it difficult for me to keep my flu symptoms at bay. I'll step out of this conversation now.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> Like not seeing a male doctor is like living in Saudi Arabia.
> 
> .


The majority of OBGYN in our country are young female doctors.

Our country is about one third Muslim.

By the year 2015 there would be more female than male OBGYN in the USA .
In fact the abundance of male in the OBGYN practice exists primarily because women were _prevented_ from becoming doctors in the past.
So much for equality.
haha..


I sense a lot of people here have power struggle issues.

IMO, whenever that type of dynamic develops in a marriage , it doesn't matter if the man or woman is right or wrong. In fact, it becomes irrelevant .
The marriage is heading for the rocks.


----------



## diwali123

Disenchanted said:


> You can't have a valid POJA with a lunatic.


I learned that rather quickly with my ex. That concept is from the marriage builders site. I tried so hard to make that work with him but it was just impossible.


----------



## Created2Write

Thor said:


> Misty, you would be horrified to know about the nudity invovled in treatments I've undergone for the last 15+ years for a botched hernia surgery.
> 
> Lots of female docs, nurses, PAs, ultrasound techs (2 of those) have had to look at, inject, image, cut, stitch, and examine my man bits.
> 
> Not once did I think there was an issue of modesty. Not even the time I was spread eagle on the operating room table as they prepped me for one of the numerous surgeries I've had.
> 
> What a silly notion modesty is when receiving legitimate medical treatments.


Yup. This right here. ^

When I was going into boot camp, I had to have _so many_ physical exams, none of them modest. I had my breasts handled by a few different people, both civilian and military, both male and female, and I had a PAP. I've had many PAPs since then, by male and female doctors. 

I prefer females because I've had better experiences with them as far as gentleness goes, but I currently have a male doctor. He's been nice so far. And no females were available. I'm not going to risk my personal health for "modesty".


----------



## Disenchanted

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I'll step out of this conversation now.


Hold that door please.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> The majority of OBGYN in our country are young female doctors.
> 
> Our country is about one third Muslim.
> 
> By the year 2015 there would be more female than male OBGYN in the USA .
> In fact the abundance of male in the OBGYN practice exists primarily because women were _prevented_ from becoming doctors in the past.
> So much for equality.
> haha..
> 
> 
> I sense a lot of people here have power struggles.
> 
> IMO, whenever that type of dynamic develops in a marriage , it doesn't matter if the man or woman is right or wrong. In fact, it becomes irrelevant .
> The marriage is heading for the rocks.


Excellent post. I agree with all of this. Nice summation really.

There should be plenty of qualified female doctors around and in growing numbers. 

-------

I know it is a tangent but it still amazes me that the male doctors of the time, a hundred years ago, used to masturbate women for hysteria.


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> You can't have a valid POJA with a lunatic.


If you live with a lunatic your deserve eberything you get.


----------



## Created2Write

Jack I said:


> A lot of people in this thread are acting like this is the first time they have ever heard of a husband prohibiting his wife from doing something he doesn't approve of.I'd say it's fairly common.Also just because a husband prohibits his wife from doing something,it doesn't mean he doesn't respect her.


Just by using the word "prohibit" you're disrespecting her. You're implying, if not outright stating, that she is beneath you and has no say. That you're also prohibiting her from getting a medical procedure done is beyond disrespectful; it borders on abusive, dude. 

You do realize that there are nurses in the room during the procedure, right? And that's regardless if the GYNO is a male or female. Your wife is not going to be alone with the GYNO, so why on earth would you object to her getting a necessary medical exam?


----------



## diwali123

Entropy3000 said:


> Excellent post. I agree with all of this. Nice summation really.
> 
> There should be plenty of qualified female doctors around and in growing numbers.
> 
> -------
> 
> I know it is a tangent but it still amazes me that the male doctors of the time, a hundred years ago, used to masturbate women for hysteria.


It amazes me too. That area tends to be a favorite subject of erotica in my head but there's no way I have ever been or would be turned on by any pelvic exam experience IRL. Just no.


----------



## diwali123

Entropy3000 said:


> If you live with a lunatic your deserve eberything you get.


In my case he turned into one.


----------



## Created2Write

Vega said:


> No, Jack. They're not acting like this is the first time they ever heard of a husband prohibiting his wife from doing something he doesn't approve of. Their surprise at your attitude is how archaic and _uncommon_ it is these days, unless you live in a place like Saudi Arabia. Women used to be subjected to "obeying" their husbands. But this has been steadily changing. Women are no longer under that subjection, and it seems that MOST men agree that they shouldn't be.
> 
> 
> 
> Jack, you're not "asking" your wife not to do something; you are trying to FORCE her not to do it. You're trying to force her not to do something that she has the RIGHT to do. And yes, you ARE trying to control her.
> 
> 
> 
> From the other posts you've written, I would HARDLY refer to you as a "decent" husband. You seem to be one of 'those' men who believes that if you do something FOR your spouse that your spouse now "OWES" you. Just because you nursed her through her weight loss surgery does NOT mean that she gives up her RIGHTS in other areas. If you nursed her through surgery thinking that she now 'owes' you, then you didn't nurse her with _love_...
> 
> You'll probably get some support on this forum, Jack. But you can't take that _minimal_ support as "proof" that what you're doing is 'reasonable'. As you can see, MOST people are against your oppressive attitudes towards your wife and your marriage.
> 
> Maybe it's time for you to bring your attitudes into 2013 *a.d.* instead of trying to force your wife to live in 2013 *b.c*.
> 
> Vega


QFT!!


----------



## Faithful Wife

diwali said: "...but there's no way I have ever been or would be turned on by any pelvic exam experience IRL."

But these were women who had no self-awareness of what an O even was. It wasn't a matter of being turned on. It was a matter of "Oh, doc says I need this treatment...wow, what WAS that! That felt great! I'm going back next week!"

At the time I am sure (some or most of) these women separated the idea of sex completely from this "procedure".


----------



## Disenchanted

Entropy3000 said:


> If you live with a lunatic your deserve eberything you get.


HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Now you're actually blaming the victim for the abuser's behavior.

Classic!


----------



## Entropy3000

diwali123 said:


> In my case he turned into one.


Right. So there really is not marriage at that point.


----------



## MEM2020

Jack,
The bolded statement below is the crux of the matter. Best way to create an aggressive response is to BE aggressive and controlling. And that's exactly what you did. If you want empathy and cooperation you need to acknowledge vulnerability. In this case: 

I know he's a doctor, still the idea of another man seeing and touching you down there feels bad. It would be an act of kindness if you could find a female gyno you feel good about seeing. 

*I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.*




Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


----------



## Jellybeans

diwali123 said:


> there's no way I have ever been or would be turned on by any pelvic exam experience IRL. Just no.


Right?! Who the f would be turned on by the totally uncomfortable and soul-exposing thing that is a pelvic exam. Yuck.


----------



## diwali123

Faithful Wife said:


> diwali said: "...but there's no way I have ever been or would be turned on by any pelvic exam experience IRL."
> 
> But these were women who had no self-awareness of what an O even was. It wasn't a matter of being turned on. It was a matter of "Oh, doc says I need this treatment...wow, what WAS that! That felt great! I'm going back next week!"
> 
> At the time I am sure (some or most of) these women separated the idea of sex completely from this "procedure".


Hmmm...I would try to explain what I meant but it's probably TMI on a site with men here.


----------



## Created2Write

Medical Patient Modesty said:


> *Here's an article that I wrote about how chaperones (nurses) do not really protect patients:*
> 
> Many people falsely assume that patients will be protected from sexual abuse and wrongdoing by a doctor if a nurse or medical assistant is present. *But is this really true? *
> 
> Many doctors especially male will have a nurse or assistant present for intimate exams such as breast, pelvic exams, and pap smears. The chaperone is the doctor's employee so she looks out for him and she will often defend him even when he does something wrong. Keep in mind that the nurse or assistant is there to "protect" the doctor and is rarely on the patient's side. There have been cases where female patients felt the male doctor went too far, but the nurse or assistant felt he was simply doing thorough examinations. One lady who was very upset that a male doctor did a rectal exam and a pap smear without her consent talked to the nurse who was present about her concerns. The nurse defended the doctor by saying that he did very thorough exams. Based on some research, male doctors tend to take longer than female doctors on breast and pelvic examinations. There was one case where everything happened so quickly that took the nurse off guard and she was not able to report what happened until the female patient left.
> 
> There are times a nurse or assistant may know that the doctor is doing something wrong, but she may be afraid to expose his criminal activities for fear of being fired or facing discrimination in the workplace.
> 
> Even in cases where a state medical board mandates a chaperone as a result of a doctor’s sexual misconduct, the chaperone is not directed to intervene if misconduct occurs, but only to observe and report to the medical board. This is not good because sexual abuse should be prevented in the first place.
> 
> Nearly half of all doctors sanctioned for sexual misconduct still practice. Even doctors who lose their licenses for sexual misconduct can often get them reinstated after a year or two.
> 
> It's hard to collect the evidence to support one's suspicions, and without evidence victims feel powerless. It usually takes many years for a male doctor to be arrested for wrongdoing. For example, Dr. Levy secretly took pictures of his patients for a long time before he was arrested. He was a very popular OB/GYN who delivered many babies and helped a lot of women with female health problems. Think how these patients are further violated by having their nude images being viewed by teams of police personnel.
> 
> *Important Facts About Chaperones To Keep in Mind: *
> 
> 1.) A nurse / assistant cannot help to chaperone a doctor's mind. She cannot control his lustful thoughts as he does intimate examinations on women. The male doctor could be enjoying the exam as though he were looking at pornography or a strip show, and then fantasizing about it later on after he leaves work. It is very normal for men to be aroused by seeing naked women and a male doctor is no different. No amount of training can take the "man" out of a male doctor. No matter how professional the male doctor is, there is no chance that he could stay pure in his mind 100 percent of the time. Look at all of the sexual misconduct cases involving male OB/GYNs in the news.
> 
> 2.) A nurse / assistant rarely will advocate for your wishes.
> 
> 3.) A nurse / assistant rarely helps to prevent sexual abuse. Abuse usually happens so quickly.
> 
> 4.) Doctors are able to get away with more unnecessary invasive exams if a nurse or assistant is present without getting in trouble. Why would the presence of a nurse make acceptable any exam that bears no relevance to the patient's presenting concern? Here are two examples to consider: 1.) Breast and external genital exams performed by an endocrinologist on a woman presenting for suspected Hyperaldosteronism would be inappropriate with or without the presence of a nurse. 2.) Breast exam performed by a doctor on a lady who has jaw pain.
> 
> *The best way for women to prevent sexual abuse by doctors is to only go to a female doctor for intimate women's health issues and to not let a male doctor see any parts of her body that are covered by a 2 piece bathing suit. *


So, essentially, women need to live their lives in fear of male doctors because they "might" behave inappropriately? You know what, I bleed during and after every PAP. If a male doctor gets his giggles out of performing a medical procedure by sticking his fingers up my vagina and pressing on my pelvis, and then taking a plastic alligator and opening my vagina up so he can insert his tools and make me bleed, then he's welcome to fantasize about that later.  

Your faith in the human race is, clearly, lacking Misty.


----------



## diwali123

Faithful Wife said:


> diwali said: "...but there's no way I have ever been or would be turned on by any pelvic exam experience IRL."
> 
> But these were women who had no self-awareness of what an O even was. It wasn't a matter of being turned on. It was a matter of "Oh, doc says I need this treatment...wow, what WAS that! That felt great! I'm going back next week!"
> 
> At the time I am sure (some or most of) these women separated the idea of sex completely from this "procedure".


Trying...nope no way to say it. Lol.


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Now you're actually blaming the victim for the abuser's behavior.
> 
> Classic!


Oh yes I am. We are accountable for ourselves. If we stay in an abusive relationship it is our fault and our fault alone that we stay. 

We see this all the time with battered wives syndrome. At this level it is a very serious matter. Indeed the husband should be put down BUT it is up to the victim in this case to get out of the realtionship. Not always easy but indeed yes. I have seen way too much of this. And yes I have put a .357 in someones face over this very thing so don't think I have no compassion. But no one can help these victims if they will not help themselves.

Yes, I blame anyone who stands in front of a train who chooses to let it hit them.

It is one thing to work out marital issues, but IF there is truly abuse then the victim needs to take control of themselves and do this.

We see this on TAM again and again and again. We are not children. If we alow ourselves to be disrespected we have to look in the mirror and hold ourselves accountable and not be lost in self pity.

So you bet I blame the victim here. If the wife or hsuband is abusive then be an adult and do something about it ... or shut up.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I'm not doubting you, diwali...was just saying that for THOSE women back in the day, it likely wasn't a matter of being "turned on" or not.


----------



## Disenchanted

Doesn't seem like sound advice to be giving to the abuser.

Too bad the wife didn't find this site instead.


----------



## Entropy3000

I stand by my advice on this thread. If he has a problem with her having a male doctor then he should tell her he has this problem and she should respect that.

Other threads are other threads. You guys say he is abusive then fine. But there is nothing abusive about this one thing. 

If he has concerne about everything she does then she needs to get her big girl panties and do something about it.


----------



## diwali123

POJAWAL

Policy of joint agreement with a lunatic:

I can't believe you did that.

But you said you agreed with it 

No I didn't

Don't you remember when we were at blahblahblah and you said so and so? 

Nope. Well if I did say that, what I really meant was this. 

Are you insane?


----------



## Created2Write

Disenchanted said:


> There's a HUGE difference between "taking into consideration" and "forbid".


Yup. Precisely. 

CM, what you're talking about is the communication of one's feelings..."Honey, I'm really not comfortable with you seeing a male GYNO. I know it probably sounds nuts, but would you mind changing to a female?" That's communicating one's concerns and feelings with respect and, for me, would make me far more inclined to agree with my husband. 

The OP has NOT done that. He has forbidden(as in refused, isn't allowing it and going so far as to deny her access to necessary transportation) that she go to this appointment. If my husband took away my car and locked me in the house just so I didn't see a male GYNO, you bet I'd divorce him. That is not respectful or concern for her, it's utter selfishness.


----------



## Starstarfish

> But there is nothing abusive about this one thing.


So you honestly feel that suddenly deciding its your right to deny your wife access to the car as a way to enforce certain behavior isn't abusive?


----------



## Created2Write

Caribbean Man said:


> And I fully agree.
> But I was referencing Lyris's categoric statement about if her husband objected to _anything_ she wanted to do, she would divorce.
> 
> That cannot be a healthy dynamic.


That's not what she said, actually. She said if her husband "forbade" her from doing something she would divorce, and I agree with her. No one has the right to "forbid" their spouse to do anything. Only those seeking to control their spouse would ever try and forbid them from doing something. And control is NOT healthy marriage dynamic. 

Objecting is very different than forbidding.


----------



## Created2Write

TikiKeen said:


> Turnera summed it up well. OP is (a)fake, or (b)disturbed. I'd lay it on the line with an H like that too. Just after I filed for D. mable made clear what is the dynamic she and her H have, and it's worlds away from OP.
> 
> CM, it appears you're just being antagonistic. ETA: you're picking and choosing which parts of posts you want, and disregarding the context in which those statements are said.


Yup. Changing what people said in their posts to mean something other than what was said.


----------



## Disenchanted

Entropy3000 said:


> she should respect that


AH the true colors are coming out now.

Maybe he should have brought it up with her before they got married.

She's probably been seeing male gynos her whole life.

What precludes him from respecting that? misogynism?


----------



## Created2Write

Caribbean Man said:


> The marital contract does _not _forbid porn. I've never seen that.
> 
> But if a wife hates porn for whatever reason, as " illogical" as she may seem, she has every right to forbid or protest or block or whatever it takes to get him to pay attention to her concerns about porn.
> A husband is supposed to respect his wife's feeling on any issue. doesn't matter if he thinks he has a right to view porn or whatever.
> They should discuss it like adults.The same applies to every single part of marriage.
> 
> Same thing can be said of stripclubs , or any decision the husband takes which she has not been consulted on and which she does not support.


Apples and oranges. Many people believe porn to be a breach of the marital vows "forsake all others". Many do not. Based on what was communicated before marriage between the couple, porn absolutely can be a breach in the marital contract. 

Regardless, though, no one has the right to forbid their spouse to do anything. I can communicate my feelings, my concerns, my boundaries, and he can choose whether or not to respect them. I do not have the right to do "whatever it takes" to keep my husband in the boundaries I have set. It's called "free will" and it trumps personal boundaries.


----------



## Created2Write

This is astonishing to me. A grown man has a hissy fit over his own damn insecurity with his wife seeing a male medical professional to maintain her health, going so far as to _forbid_ her and _deny her access to the transportation she would have used to go_, and *she's* the disrespectful party? 

More and more I'm realizing how lucky I am that my husband isn't like the men here...


----------



## hopelessromantic1

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## mablenc

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not doubting you, diwali...was just saying that for THOSE women back in the day, it likely wasn't a matter of being "turned on" or not.


Which women? Why the asumtions? Women have been orgasming since they were physically able to. Also in what world and which women would say a pelvic exam felt "good or nice"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Created2Write

Let me add this: if the OPs objection was to a specific male doctor who'd made him uncomfortable with certain comments or things in the past, I would understand a bit more why he would be so upset. If my husband wasn't comfortable with my doctor over certain things he did or said, I would respect his feelings and change doctors because he would have very legitimate concerns.

But _any_ male doctor? Especially when there were no females available? Insecurity.


----------



## Created2Write

Double post.


----------



## turnera

Disenchanted said:


> AH the true colors are coming out now.
> 
> Maybe he should have brought it up with her before they got married.
> 
> She's probably been seeing male gynos her whole life.
> 
> What precludes him from respecting that? misogynism?


What has changed, according to Jack, is that she has lost 200 pounds. I suspect he now sees her as someone who he's afraid might find someone better or else who might be seen as an attractive woman now that she's so much thinner.


----------



## Entropy3000

diwali123 said:


> POJAWAL
> 
> Policy of joint agreement with a lunatic:
> 
> I can't believe you did that.
> 
> But you said you agreed with it
> 
> No I didn't
> 
> Don't you remember when we were at blahblahblah and you said so and so?
> 
> Nope. Well if I did say that, what I really meant was this.
> 
> Are you insane?


POJA will not work with a lunatic. Marriage will not work with a lunatic.

POJA assumes that the marriage is workable at all.

Simple logic here.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Created2Write said:


> Regardless, though, no one has the right to forbid their spouse to do anything. *I can communicate my feelings, my concerns, my boundaries, and he can choose whether or not to respect them. I do not have the right to do "whatever it takes" to keep my husband in the boundaries I have set. It's called "free will" and it trumps personal boundaries.*


My goodness....

You actually _believe _what you just posted?


----------



## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> What has changed, according to Jack, is that she has lost 200 pounds. I suspect he now sees her as someone who he's afraid might find someone better or else who might be seen as an attractive woman now that she's so much thinner.


I bet the doctor does now.


----------



## diwali123

mablenc said:


> Which women? Why the asumtions? Women have been orgasming since they were physically able to. Also in what world and which women would say a pelvic exam felt "good or nice"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The ones who got treated for hysteria. You are familiar with that bit of history? 

There are indeed women who orgasm during exams....but there are women who O during child birth. Or claim to. But I doubt it's because they are attracted to their care giver.


----------



## Created2Write

Caribbean Man said:


> My goodness....
> 
> You actually _believe _what you just posted?


Yes, I believe in free will. I also believe in consequences. My husband can choose to respect my boundaries or not, and I have no right to force him one way or the other. 

But that doesn't mean I put up with it if he doesn't respect my boundaries. If my husband disrespected my boundaries and went to strip club and watched porn, I'd leave him. If this issue is really that important to the OP, then he should leave his wife. They're clearly not on the same page. But he has absolutely NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to force her to do what she wants.

Do you advocate force? Do you believe in free will CM? Entropy3000?


----------



## mablenc

diwali123 said:


> The ones who got treated for hysteria. You are familiar with that bit of history?
> 
> There are indeed women who orgasm during exams....but there are women who O during child birth. Or claim to. But I doubt it's because they are attracted to their care giver.


That was not a pelvic exam that was manual masturbation :rofl: however, it kept the peace. The men would have not issue sending their spouse. 

Back to the subject, I really wish Jack would go with his wife to the appointment and see for himself what really goes on and how this is plan ridiculous.


----------



## mablenc

diwali123 said:


> The ones who got treated for hysteria. You are familiar with that bit of history?
> 
> There are indeed women who orgasm during exams....*but there are women who O during child birth*. Or claim to. But I doubt it's because they are attracted to their care giver.


Maybe they should not be having children then, that takes this to a whole new level.


----------



## TikiKeen

Oh good grief.

It would be ironic if Jack's wife left him, then he kept going to the strip club, and discovered that she'd become a dancer.


----------



## TikiKeen

Oh good grief.

It would be ironic if Jack's wife left him, then he kept going to the strip club, and discovered that she'd become a dancer.


----------



## Created2Write

And CM, it would be great if you could _be respectful_ of the other posters here and their beliefs, instead of insulting them by asking if they "actually believe what they just posted". If you're going to advocate respect you should probably give it, fyi.


----------



## diwali123

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334789/Women-orgasms-giving-birth.html


----------



## Entropy3000

diwali123 said:


> It amazes me too. That area tends to be a favorite subject of erotica in my head but there's no way I have ever been or would be turned on by any pelvic exam experience IRL. Just no.


I am not suggesting a pelvic exam is erotic for any woman. I will take your word for it that it is not and that many women do not like it at all. 

My wife told me a story of before we were married when she had to use Navy doctors where she was having a pelvic exam and they brought in all the new coprman to watch. Like 15 newbie guys looking up her cooch. The Navy takes care of its own. Not a whole lot of respect for Navy wives BTW from some folks.

But I digress. No indeed I am suggesting that the treatment for hysteria of manullay masturbating women to orgasm was not the same as a typical pelvic exam. Not sure how anyone could assume that. Indeed this is how vibrators got their start. Doctors found this hard work woman after woman after woman. Some of them had to come back in fairly often.

I can only speculate that some of the male doctors enjoyed this with at least some of their patients. To assume not seems naive. To assume that some of the ladies did not enjoy being masturbated by the young doctor is absurd to me. If someone wants to believe that then great.

My point is that just because someone says it is up to the woman to decide what was approproaite or not ... one has to consider that many women thought this was very appropriate albeit a long time ago. It just amazes me that this was all ok back then.

There is no way you can sell me on the idea that the ladies back then did not like these treatments.

------

So all this aside I do not think the issue with any of this is that the husband thinks the wife enjoys her exam. It is more about the doctor. Now we do not have to agree with this but it seems plausible to me. 

I think we should only trust those in the medical field so far. We are very much at their mercy AND there are abuses all of the time. I should not even have to point this out.

Having to climb up into the stirrups is not likely great fun for most women. I have no idea what percentage of these doctors abuse their privs. Like most things in life it is probably way more than we might imagine. Father Kelly .... what are you doing with that alter boy? Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absoultely.

All this said I am still not going to ask my wife to change her doctors.


----------



## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> diwali said: "...but there's no way I have ever been or would be turned on by any pelvic exam experience IRL."
> 
> But these were women who had no self-awareness of what an O even was. It wasn't a matter of being turned on. It was a matter of "Oh, doc says I need this treatment...wow, what WAS that! That felt great! I'm going back next week!"
> 
> At the time I am sure (some or most of) these women separated the idea of sex completely from this "procedure".


Many of these women separated the idea of sex and orgasms at all. Talk about a dark period.

But vibrators came out of all of this.


----------



## Entropy3000

Jellybeans said:


> Right?! Who the f would be turned on by the totally uncomfortable and soul-exposing thing that is a pelvic exam. Yuck.


Some perverted doctors.


----------



## Entropy3000

diwali123 said:


> Hmmm...I would try to explain what I meant but it's probably TMI on a site with men here.


This should be between you and your doctor.


----------



## mablenc

Entropy3000 said:


> Many of these women separated the idea of sex and orgasms at all. Talk about a dark period.
> 
> But vibrators came out of all of this.


according to wikipeida 

The world's oldest known dildo is a siltstone 20-centimeter phallus from the Upper Palaeolithic period 30,000 years ago that was found in Hohle Fels Cave near Ulm, Germany.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Created2Write said:


> And CM, it would be great if you could _be respectful_ of the other posters here and their beliefs, instead of insulting them by asking if they "actually believe what they just posted". If you're going to advocate respect you should probably give it, fyi.


Its a pity I didn't feel insulted when you told me to " grow a pair " and that I had no right posting on that PUA thread last week...

Now you feel insulted that I ask you if you actually believe what you posted...

Funny how that works eh?
Does it work like that for you in real life?


----------



## turnera

I will say that, after working directly with doctors for the past couple years, they don't even SEE a male or female when they're treating someone. They see a subject and a medical issue or a procedure to be done. Of course there will be the fringe, but typically, they're just thinking about what it is SUPPOSED to look like and seeing if it does.


----------



## diwali123

More like me and my husband.


----------



## Entropy3000

Starstarfish said:


> So you honestly feel that suddenly deciding its your right to deny your wife access to the car as a way to enforce certain behavior isn't abusive?


I honestly think that this one issue all by itself is not abusive at all.

Because it is not.

No where have I addressed anything else. I have stated that this may be part of a bigger problem.

Is this clear enough?

Sorry folks, to spoil the bashing party. Get real. This one issue is not the problem.


----------



## TikiKeen

October is domestic violence awareness month. Get educated. *Stop blaming the victims.* From what I've read, that directly goes against both the nature and rules of support of this board.

Here is a little information about blaming the victim, since one poster (and many folks IRL) seems hell-bent on making sure OP's wife (and, by proxy, all other survivors who stay past some unspoken arbitrary departure date) is blamed for OP's admitted abuse.

First

Second

It extends to male sexual abuse, to give perspective on how far-reaching is victim-blaming.

The American Judges Association also addresses it with their members.

In other words, stop it. It adds to the mental and emotional injuries suffered by victims. No one should ever be able to show up on a marriage support board, admit to outright abusive behavior (not allowing a spouse to drive when that spouse has no medical reason preventing driving from happening) and be supported. No one.


----------



## Created2Write

Caribbean Man said:


> Its a pity I didn't feel insulted when you told me to " grow a pair " and that I had no right posting on that PUA thread last week...


I never told you to grow a pair, nor did I say that you had no right to post in a thread. I completely disagreed with your opinion, and I disagreed very strongly, as did others. But I didn't insult you. Even other posters could see that you were taking things personally when they weren't meant to be.



> Now you feel insulted that I ask you if you actually believe what you posted...


Yeah I do...because it was insulting. I haven't insulted you, so I don't see why you feel the need to insult me.



> Funny how that works eh?
> Does it work like that for you in real life?


Guess that's a no on the respect then, eh? That's too bad. I used to really respect your opinion and posts here, even if we disagreed. I don't know why you've been on the defensive so much lately, but it makes me sad. You've been one of my favorite posters here for a long time.


----------



## TikiKeen

Entropy, it is abuse. In my time as a medical advocate, I've seen too many cases of abusive spouses resenting their wives for 'getting sick' and preventing them access to medical care. What you flat-out support is abusive, and there is no denying it. It's not a matter of perspective; it's documented abuse in many court decisions. What part of "it's wrong" is so difficult to grasp? Just because the abuse doesn't leave physical injuries does not mean that it's not abuse.

Source.


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> AH the true colors are coming out now.
> 
> Maybe he should have brought it up with her before they got married.
> 
> She's probably been seeing male gynos her whole life.
> 
> What precludes him from respecting that? misogynism?


No not at all. Not this. Some things are brought up before marriage. But boundaries in marriage have to adapt.

It is disengenuous to think that two people get married at say 23 and do not have to adapt in their 40s. Things change. People are often exceedingly idealistic and naive early on in a marriage. In other things they learn to go with the flow.

Marriages evolve. 

Who really ares if she has been seeing male gynos her whole life. 

Misoginism. Really? How absurd. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

You cannot be for real.


----------



## Entropy3000

mablenc said:


> That was not a pelvic exam that was manual masturbation :rofl: however, it kept the peace. The men would have not issue sending their spouse.
> 
> Back to the subject, I really wish Jack would go with his wife to the appointment and see for himself what really goes on and how this is plan ridiculous.


Will manual masturbation in this manner be covered under Obamacare?


----------



## TikiKeen

Here is a specific mention of refusing access to transportation, as well as a very thorough review of abuser warning signs.


----------



## Created2Write

Entropy3000 said:


> No not at all. Not this. Some things are brought up before marriage. But boundaries in marriage have to adapt.
> 
> It is disengenuous to think that two people get married at say 23 and do not have to adapt in their 40s. Things change. People are often exceedingly idealistic and naive early on in a marriage. In other things they learn to go with the flow.
> 
> Marriages evolve.
> 
> Who really ares if she has been seeing male gynos her whole life.
> 
> Misoginism. Really? How absurd. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> You cannot be for real.


So, in your opinion, do marriages evolve into one spouse dictating to the other what they will and will not do?


----------



## Entropy3000

TikiKeen said:


> Oh good grief.
> 
> It would be ironic if Jack's wife left him, then he kept going to the strip club, and discovered that she'd become a dancer.


Then everyone could see her cooch.

No I think a wife's cooch should only be touched by :

1) medical staff
2) massage therapist
3) tattoo / piercing artist
4) beautician / hair stylist
5) close friends
6) FB and TAM friends
7) yoga / tantric instructor
8) personal trainers

Oh and maybe her husband. maybe not.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Created2Write said:


> I never told you to grow a pair, nor did I say that you had no right to post in a thread. I completely disagreed with your opinion, and I disagreed very strongly, as did others. But I didn't insult you. Even other posters could see that you were taking things personally when they weren't meant to be.


Ok, 

I have the exact post and I could easily post it here.
But here's what, I have no desire to get into any personal arguments with you.

If you feel insulted by me asking if you are sure of what you posted, then I'll be the bigger man and simply apologize.

I'm sorry you felt that way , I just wanted for you to clarify your statement.

I think it may be best that we avoid commenting or responding to each other's post , if there is not any civility, or if one is prepared to take insult to a difference of opinion/ question. Many people disagree with me and I have never taken it personally. I have never told anyone on this forum that they have no business being on a thread or commenting on a topic, or that they should grow up or " man up."

I respect you as a poster too much to tell you anything like that no matter how much I disagree with your post.
I have never even told you anything remotely close to that.
I have always supported you on your threads and personal issues.

I continue to wish you the best.


----------



## Disenchanted

Created2Write said:


> So, in your opinion, do marriages evolve into one spouse dictating to the other what they will and will not do?


No seems to think that marriages evolve into the wives respecting what the husbands want but not vice-versa.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> No seems to think that marriages evolve into the wives respecting what the husbands want but not vice-versa.


I don't think I anybody except the OP said or even implied that.


----------



## hopelessromantic1

Wow, there are some seriously asinine things being said on this thread. Disrespect, Ego, flat out rudeness. Sad that people can't debate without telling others they're being "absurd" and asking if they're kidding when they say things. Some folks are so defensive, you'd think they were being (or maybe have been?) accused of the same behaviors themselves. 
Look up Misogyny in the dictionary...this man fits the bill. He's admitted to denigrating things he's done to his wife, as well as being mentally abusive. I absolutely agree that marriages must evolve, but what we're talking about here is a broken relationship, of which you will never hear the entire story or the entire truth, so stop taking it so personally and stepping all over other people's opinions and feelings to be "right." There's no right here, only a sad man who will probably end up divorced for his complete inability to treat another human being with the respect and love it takes to keep a marriage going.


----------



## turnera

Can we please get back on topic so the OP will come back?


----------



## Entropy3000

mablenc said:


> according to wikipeida
> 
> The world's oldest known dildo is a siltstone 20-centimeter phallus from the Upper Palaeolithic period 30,000 years ago that was found in Hohle Fels Cave near Ulm, Germany.


These were dildoes. I think the innovation was the vibrating. 

Now the rabbit came out a little later.

Though on Ancient Aliens they do talk about probing AND that stone carving does look like a rabbit vibrator.

I love history.

But if nothing else personal vibrators helped many women with ... "hysteria". I think you can still purchase these archaic tools. 

I think there is a statue of a woman on a sybian on Easter Island. But I may have my facts wrong.


----------



## turnera

To be fair, a lot of the other threads (a lot!) he has started are about him caring about her and wanting her to want him more and stuff like that. He's not a complete jerk. I just think he is misguided on what it means to be married.


----------



## Cletus

Of course a man has a right to tell his wife to which doctor she can go for her exams.

He just shouldn't be surprised if one day we read about is untimely death in the obituaries.


----------



## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> I will say that, after working directly with doctors for the past couple years, they don't even SEE a male or female when they're treating someone. They see a subject and a medical issue or a procedure to be done. Of course there will be the fringe, but typically, they're just thinking about what it is SUPPOSED to look like and seeing if it does.


I will take your word for it but do you really know what is going on in their minds?

Hey I can listen to a hot looking architect but she is still hot. I can hear what she says and be very professional and do my job just fine.


----------



## Entropy3000

TikiKeen said:


> October is domestic violence awareness month. Get educated. *Stop blaming the victims.* From what I've read, that directly goes against both the nature and rules of support of this board.
> 
> Here is a little information about blaming the victim, since one poster (and many folks IRL) seems hell-bent on making sure OP's wife (and, by proxy, all other survivors who stay past some unspoken arbitrary departure date) is blamed for OP's admitted abuse.
> 
> First
> 
> Second
> 
> It extends to male sexual abuse, to give perspective on how far-reaching is victim-blaming.
> 
> The American Judges Association also addresses it with their members.
> 
> In other words, stop it. It adds to the mental and emotional injuries suffered by victims. No one should ever be able to show up on a marriage support board, admit to outright abusive behavior (not allowing a spouse to drive when that spouse has no medical reason preventing driving from happening) and be supported. No one.


I know way too much about this topic. And have taken positive actions in my life.

Indeed though I will reiterate that people in abusive relationships need to leave those relationships. The abuse is not their fault but them staying in the relationship is.

Sorry folks this is tough love. IF you really want to help victims of abuse you actually do what you can to help them get out of those situations.

And asking your wife to not go to a male gyno is not abusive. It mocks those women who are in truly abusive relationships.


----------



## Caribbean Man

turnera said:


> To be fair, a lot of the other threads (a lot!) he has started are about him caring about her and wanting her to want him more and stuff like that. He's not a complete jerk. I just think he is misguided on what it means to be married.



lol,

The only thread I remember from this guy was one in which he went to a stripclub and had a lapdance.
If I remember correctly I think my response was that if my wife found out I did that, she would throw , pot , kettle and even the treadmill behind my sorry a$$ , while I running away trying to escape her wrath.


----------



## Entropy3000

TikiKeen said:


> Entropy, it is abuse. In my time as a medical advocate, I've seen too many cases of abusive spouses resenting their wives for 'getting sick' and preventing them access to medical care. What you flat-out support is abusive, and there is no denying it. It's not a matter of perspective; it's documented abuse in many court decisions. What part of "it's wrong" is so difficult to grasp? Just because the abuse doesn't leave physical injuries does not mean that it's not abuse.
> 
> Source.


We will have to agree to disagree. It is not abusive to ask your spouse to have a female doctor. 

This thread was about a male gyno doctor. This is what I am addressing. Indeed there is no reason in this modern world for a women in a country like the US to be unable to find a female doctor. 

There is nothing abusive about this at all.

No where did I suggest any other type of doctor or ny other procedure. Is this so hard to grasp. Too often folks with their own agendas like to bait and switch things.

No indeed on this topic by itself there is nothing wrong with a husband expecting his wife to use a female to do her pelvic exams. 

I have said nothing about anyone else. This is not vague.


Why all the disrepsect for women here? Why do folks in 2013 not trust a female doctor? Why are they seen as less qualified? I think those that insist that only a male doctor is qualified have the real issues. If anything I think a woman might have better knowledge of being ... a woman. No?


----------



## Cletus

Entropy3000 said:


> And asking your wife to not go to a male gyno is not abusive. It mocks those women who are in truly abusive relationships.


Abusive? By itself, no, though it depends on the larger context in which it's embedded.

Disrespectful? By my definition, monstrously so. YMMV.


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't think I anybody except the OP said or even implied that.





Entropy3000 said:


> If he has a problem with her having a male doctor then he should tell her he has this problem and she should respect that.


What precludes him from respecting her choice in healthcare providers?


----------



## hopelessromantic1

it IS however, abusive to "not allow" your wife to drive "your" car to go to the doctor because she is not seeing the doctor of your choosing. 
I personally care enough about my husbands opinion and wishes that I would see a female if it made him feel better, but then again, my husband is not a jerk. My husband would never tell me it was "not going to happen" and mean that he would forcibly disallow her to do it. Maybe this guy's problem is that he is clueless about how to speak to his wife in order to gain the respect he believes he deserves from her.


----------



## TikiKeen

Exactly, hopelessromanitc1. That was my point.

Entropy, in the links I provided, controlling the process of her medical care was included. 

It's not a matter of agreeing to disagree. You're simply wrong about whether controlling her medical and transportation access is abusive or not. And of course victims should leave, and friends should help them to do so. 

It's 2013: why must she use the doctor he wants, for a medical procedure? I dread the thought of her having emergency surgery; will he wait for a female surgeon to be called in if the on-call surgeon is male? That's a completely unrealistic expectation from anyone.


----------



## Entropy3000

Created2Write said:


> So, in your opinion, do marriages evolve into one spouse dictating to the other what they will and will not do?


You know I have posted a few thousand times. A good percentage have been tongue in cheek. But if you have read any of my straight forward posts you will find that all I preach is teamwork and partnership.

So I have no idea where this comment comes from.

Try reading His Needs her Needs for one. It does not have all the answers but it will give you a real clue of where I come from.

Consider that I have been married for a long time. I have two great-grandchildren. We still have an active sex life and we have been through a lot.

So compare that resume with many on here who are in failed relationships and then tell me I am wrong. I can actually speak from success and anot utter failure.

Marriage is a partnership. It has to consist of two adults. Yes I said two. If someone says three then they can go F themselves. We are all accountable as being adults. We do not need to throw the victim card around or any of the rest of the excuses for not having self respect. You have to respect yourself before you can anyone else.

But you go right ahead and find where I say abusive behavior is correct. But before you do, ask yourself why you would ever ask me if I think that one way relationships are good. WTF does that come from.

I am sorry you guys do not like the OP and feel he is abusive. He may very well be. But him not wanting his wife to have a male gyno is not one of them. 

If his marriage was on good ground he could ask his wife to do this and she would. So the fact she will ot says that one or both of them have a problem. 

But some folks get really freaking carried away with trying to be activists and every guy on TAM looks like a bad guy. Even those who love their wives and treat them with respect.

I am not defending this guy and his relationship. But I am defending a guy ion a good marriage who is not ok with a male gyno for his wife. It does not even have to make sense. Because in a loving relationship it does not matter. 

I get that folks think that this is consitent with abusive behavior. But guess what it is also consistent with non abusive behavior. 

It is very likely that he posts this stuff on here just to watch this type of risdiculous exchange. Or he is a woman who wants to push the agenda. Who knows what the truth is.

But seriously does anyone want to challenge that during a marriage a couple does not discuss and evolve and deal with issues? Really? If so and you are in a failed relationship guess what? This is a big reason why you failed. Not everything in a marriage can be dealt with up front though I think you should do as much as possible. How many young men getting married even would consider such a thing?


No sorry things come up in marriage and boundaries are constantly reevaluated. If you think that it is one sidedd then stop playing victim and get out.


----------



## hopelessromantic1

You're absolutely right in saying that not WANTING his wife to not see a male gyno is NOT abusive. But CONTROLLING her by taking away the vehicle and saying "it's not going to happen" IS ABUSIVE. Those are abusive actions.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cletus said:


> Abusive? By itself, no, though it depends on the larger context in which it's embedded.
> 
> Disrespectful? By my definition, monstrously so. YMMV.


And as I have repeatedly said ... on its own.

Everything in life is dealt with in context.

If I asked my wife to do this it would not be disrespectful. So my mielage does vary.

I guess some men have nothing in the love bank if this is an issue. If something so trivial matters then basically you do not have a relationship.

If a husband has to be overly concerned about this hurting his marriage there is no marriage.


----------



## Cletus

Entropy3000 said:


> If his marriage was on good ground he could ask his wife to do this and she would. So the fact she will ot says that one or both of them have a problem.


If his marriage was good his wife would explain to him that her choice of doctor is personal and he would accept that. 

At least, that's an equally defensible alternative viewpoint. In a good marriage, they would negotiate a mutually acceptable solution, but that's just my viewpoint.

If the best doctor is town in a male, like my brother-in-law who also happens to be an OB-GYN in Mississippi, I would want my wife getting the best medical care, gender of the doctor be damned.


----------



## Entropy3000

Disenchanted said:


> What precludes him from respecting her choice in healthcare providers?


We have no specific information on this from him.

So excuse me while I have to fall back to a successful marriage. Mine. We have had our challenges but I can speak from experience here.

In fact my wife and I will indeed be selecting our healthcare choices for this year in November. We do this together. Because it effects us both. We have the same primary care doctor. We have the same dentist. I have never had an issue with her gyno.

But the decisions will be based on our joint agreement. We just do not have problems in this area.

But to answer your question. Either spouse has the right to request anything of their spouse. If this is done properly the marriage is better for it. If either one of them are jerks then the marriage will fail.

So I do not see an issue with your question? Are they not married?

I can onl get the inference that many of you guys have had issues with your spouses in these things.

I understand you guys take issue with this OP taking into his other actions.

But really why are you gusy so up in arms about tbis topic? Or is it just about this guy?

Tell me it is just about this guy and I get it. But if it about husbands in general then I do not get the issues here. Unless people are in their own power struggles with their spouse and are impacted by that.

I tend to assume that those looking for advice on TAM are looking for healthy marriage advice.


----------



## Entropy3000

hopelessromantic1 said:


> it IS however, abusive to "not allow" your wife to drive "your" car to go to the doctor because she is not seeing the doctor of your choosing.
> I personally care enough about my husbands opinion and wishes that I would see a female if it made him feel better, but then again, my husband is not a jerk. My husband would never tell me it was "not going to happen" and mean that he would forcibly disallow her to do it. Maybe this guy's problem is that he is clueless about how to speak to his wife in order to gain the respect he believes he deserves from her.


I see that the issue for many of you is his feeble attempt at control.

I personally would not take that road.

I would never suggest to him he do that at all. 

I suggest that if they cannot sit down as mature adults and work this out that the marriage itself is broken and they need to decide whether to fix it or move on.

This rhetoric may have been used to incite discussion on here. Hot buttons. He got it.

I can only think of one time in 37 years I told my wife straight out what I would and would not allow. It was an emergency and she concurred with my decision anyway. This was that she stay clear of a violent man. As it turned out the police did get there in time. But the reason I told her this was that it was for her safety and I had already decided that if he touched her I was taking him out. So yes I can be controlling when pushed to the extreme.

I had a step daughter whose abusive husband would remove the sparkplug wires in here car to keep her from leaving. So tell me about it. Those guys are the scum of the earth. So I would never defend them.


----------



## Cletus

Entropy3000 said:


> But really why are you gusy so up in arms about tbis topic? Or is it just about this guy?


There seems to be general agreement that one spouse does not have the moral authority to take away the free agency of the other as long as the other is not violating the marital contract. So the issue hinges on whether or not seeing a doctor of your choosing is such a violation.

The consensus seems to think it is not, and that the spouse who believes that they have this right is acting in a controlling if not downright abusive manner.


----------



## Entropy3000

TikiKeen said:


> Exactly, hopelessromanitc1. That was my point.
> 
> Entropy, in the links I provided, controlling the process of her medical care was included.
> 
> It's not a matter of agreeing to disagree. *You're simply wrong* about whether controlling her medical and transportation access is abusive or not. And of course victims should leave, and friends should help them to do so.
> 
> It's 2013: why must she use the doctor he wants, for a medical procedure? I dread the thought of her having emergency surgery; will he wait for a female surgeon to be called in if the on-call surgeon is male? That's a completely unrealistic expectation from anyone.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I love this. 

You are simply wrong. I know way more about this stuff than I wish I did. So you are talking to someone who has more than a clue about this.

I am telling you that you are wrong in stating that a husband who does not want his wife to have a male doctor is abusive. That is absurd.


----------



## TikiKeen

Anecdote:
My H didn't tell me for two months that he didn't like my gyno until she became rude and barely communicative with him while I was in recovery from my hysto. Had he told me sooner, I gladly would have changed doctors for one who respected the patients' families and spouses. I would have done it because he was directly slighted, and because he gave me a specific reason why he disliked her.

Then again, I'd be gravely concerned if a poster cam here and said his wife refused to see a male gyno at his insistence and order, too.


----------



## Disenchanted

Entropy3000 said:


> We have no specific information on this from him......


I call BS. There is no universe where language like this is acceptable in a mature healthy marriage, in invalidates every single post that comes after it and makes a mockery of all of us for even entertaining this guy's question, from his very first post:



Jack I said:


> I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.


Now if you think like that about your wife (much less talk like that) then you and I sir, will never agree on what a healthy marriage is.

Car restrictions or not, force used or not, this man is a misogynist and his wife is not a dog to be trained.


----------



## Created2Write

Entropy3000 said:


> You know I have posted a few thousand times. A good percentage has been tongue in cheek. But if you have read any of my staight forward posts you will find that all I preach is teamwork and partnership.
> 
> So I have no idea where this comment comes from.


The OP said he would not allow her to go to her appointment, thereby dictating what she could not do. You said marriage evolves as time goes on, and I was asking if you think that includes either husbands or wives dictating what their spouse will or will not do.



> Try reading His Needs her Needs for one. It does not have all the answer but it will give you a real clue of where I come from.[/i]
> 
> I have read _His Needs, Her Needs_. It was a great book, about respect and seeing things from our souses perspective. I have no issue with that whatsoever and, in fact, said so earlier in the thread. The OP has every right to feel as he does, even if I think he's being immature and whiny. However, he has no right to dictate to his wife what she will and will not do.
> 
> You seem to see the OP as asking his wife to change from a male to female GYNO, and if that had been what took place, I would agree with you. But he hasn't done that. He's dictated to her what she will not do, and gone so far as to physically force her to do what he wants.
> 
> You don't see this as abusive?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Consider that I have been married for a long time. I have two great grandchildren. We still have an active sex life and have been through a lot.
> 
> So compare that resume with many on here who are in failed relationships and then tell me I am wrong. I can actually speak from success and anot utter failure.
> 
> 
> 
> So, because you've had a successful marriage you must be right about this? Hardly.
> 
> Again, if the situation was that a husband was uncomfortable with his wife seeing a male GYNO and respectfully asking her to change, I would agree with you. But, again, that's not what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marriage is a partnership. It has to consist of two adults. Yes I said two. If someone says three then they can go F themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTH? Who said a marriage consists of three? Marriage _is_ a partnership, you're absolutely correct. However, a partnership requires respect and trust, two things the OP has not demonstrated toward his wife in this situation. He has no right to dictate to her which GYNO she will see. Moreover, he has no right at all to keep her from getting to a necessary medical procedure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are all accountable as being adults. We do not need to through the victim card around or any of the rest of the excuses for not having self respect. You have to respect yourself before you can anyone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, no argument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you go right ahead and find wherer I say abusive behavior is correct. But before you do, ask yourself why you would ever ask me if I think that one way relationships are good. WTF does that come from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The confusion lies in that you don't see the OP as being wrong at all in this situation, which is something I can not agree with. He did not respectfully communicate his feelings to his wife, he didn't ask her if she would change to a female GYNO, he _demanded_ it, and when she didn't give in, he kept the use of the car from her.
> 
> Tell me, do you think it's right for a either spouse to _demand_ anything of the other? Or to keep the car away from them when they need that car? This isn't abusive behavior to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry you guys do not like the OP and feel he is abusive. He may very well be. But him not wanting his wife to have a male gyno is not one of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, not wanting her to have a male GYNO isn't abusive. But demanding that she have a female GYNO, forbidding her to go to the appointment until she gets a female GYNO, and taking away her use of the car _are_ abusive. Or do you not agree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If his marriage was on good ground he could ask his wife to do this and she would. So the fact she will ot says that one or both of them have a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But some folks get really freaking carried away with trying to be activists and every guy on TAM looks like a bad guy. Even those who love their wives and treat them with respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, please look at this guy's opening post and tell me that he was being respectful by demanding she get a male GYNO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not defending this guy and his relationship. But I am defending a guy ion a good marriage who is not ok with a male gyno for his wife. It does not even have to make sense. Because in a loving relationship it does not matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no issue with a guy asking his wife to get a female GYNO. But demanding it crosses the line. It's disrespectful. Denying her access to the car to get to the appointment crosses the line into abuse. Legally, she may be able to press charges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I get that folks think that this is consitent with abusive behavior. But guess what it is also consistent with non abusive behavior.
> 
> It is very likely that he posts this stuff on here just to watch this type of risdiculous exchange. Or he is a woman who wants to push the agenda. Who knows what the truth is.
> 
> But seriously does anyone want to challenge that during a marriage a couple does not discuss and evolve and deal with issues? Really? If so and you are in a failed relationship guess what? This is a big reason why you failed. Not everything in a marriage can be dealt with up front though I think you should do as much as possible. How many young men getting married even would consider such a thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, this kind of thing isn't something you can talk about beforehand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No sorry things come up in marriage and boundaries are constantly reevaluated. If you think that it is one sidedd then stop playing victim and get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I normally don't see this much hostility in your posts, Entropy. I'm not sure why you're so hostile. But I doubt anyone here would disagree with what you've said in the context of a husband being, truly, respectful. But the OP has not been.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vega

Even if he *respectfully* asked her to change, she _still_ _respectfully_ has the right NOT to change! It doesn’t mean she’s being _*DIS*_ respectful if she doesn’t. 

Vega


----------



## diwali123

Things I have learned from this thread: 

1. Never fight a land war in Asia 
2.


----------



## Vega

Entropy3000 said:


> I think for me this might become the path where they can start making all of their choices.


And making their own choices that MOSTLY impact themselves is 'wrong' because....?

Not ALL decisions in a marriage are "marital" or "joint" decisions.

I think one of the keys to a successful marriage is having the WISDOM to know *when* a decision is "joint" and *when *it's NOT.


----------



## Cletus

Entropy3000 said:


> If the local gyno is also the horse doctor then there you go. I think it interrsting that folks put so little faith in a woman's capability of being one of them thar female doctors. LOL. I have more respect for a woman's capabilities It seems than many. It is time we stopped thinking that a woman cannot be the best at this.


I have great faith in women doctors. That is SO not what this is about.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cletus said:


> There seems to be general agreement that one spouse does not have the moral authority to take away the free agency of the other as long as the other is not violating the marital contract. So the issue hinges on whether or not seeing a doctor of your choosing is such a violation.
> 
> The consensus seems to think it is not, and that the spouse who believes that they have this right is acting in a controlling if not downright abusive manner.


There is a TAMthink on this on this one thread. In no way does that infer anything anywhere else. 

I am going to completely disagree with this TAMthink.

I am going to say that such things are fair game in a marriage that shouldbe decided together. In no way can I assume that what constitutes a concensus of the minds on this thread is in anyway associated with a heathy successful marriage. I respect peoples opinions but they are just that and have to ve viewed in the context of where they are coming from.

Just getting a group of folks who agree on any of these threads does not mean there is a healthy marriage choice being made.

So few folks seem familiar with any type of conflict resolution or working together. I keep hearing about spouses making their own personal decisions about things and not about working together and that is just plain sad. I honestly have compassion for folks who live that way.


----------



## Lyris

Entropy you know my situation generally. I am also in a sucessful marriage, a relationship that has lasted for 23 years and one in which both my husband and I are very happy.

And yet if he started to forbid me from doing things, restrict me from using a car, or doing any kind of controlling of my behaviour I would leave. I won't live in such a situation.

If my husband had a problem with something that was my decision to make about my personal health, I would listen to his concern and then I may or may not change my actions. If, as n the case of the OP, if his sole issue was that he didn't want me seeing a male gynecologist because he may view me sexually, I would not consider that to be a reasonable objection and I would not let his opinion affect my decision.


----------



## Cletus

Entropy3000 said:


> There is a TAMthink on this on this one thread. In no way does that infer anything anywhere else.
> 
> I am going to completely disagree with this TAMthink.


As is your right.

Your vote counts for every bit as much as everyone else's here - no more and no less.


----------



## ExiledBayStater

Entropy3000 said:


> I am going to say that such things are fair game in a marriage that shouldbe decided together. In no way can I assume that what constitutes a concensus of the minds on this thread is in anyway associated with a heathy successful marriage. I respect peoples opinions but they are just that and have to ve viewed in the context of where they are coming from.


If the wife asked for advice, people might tell her that she should try to see if she can accommodate his preference without compromising her care.

But the wife isn't asking. The husband is posting and asking for advice. He's being advised that his anxieties are not based in reality, and to get over it. I can't think of better advice for the husband.


----------



## Vega

Entropy3000 said:


> You just like to argue and have your way. I am speaking straight up on this and you can choose to do what ever you like.
> 
> I am actually a real person, with a real marriage who deals with real problems and conflicts. I am not divorced, I am not trolling the relationship sites, I have no agenda here here other than to discuss marriage. I am not jaded by my past failed relationships.
> 
> I am not sure whwere you live frankly but it must be Venus or France.
> 
> Like I said I can speak from a positive marriage experience. I long term one. YMMV.


Entropy, I'd like to remind you that being in a long term marriage doesn't necessarily mean that it's a HEALTHY and MATURE marriage. _Longevity_ of a marriage is NOT the end all, be all. 

There are PLENTY of long term marriages that are very, very sick. 

Vega


----------



## Entropy3000

Vega said:


> And making their own choices that MOSTLY impact themselves is 'wrong' because....?
> 
> Not ALL decisions in a marriage are "marital" or "joint" decisions.
> 
> I think one of the keys to a successful marriage is having the WISDOM to know *when* a decision is "joint" and *when *it's NOT.


Because marriage is a partnership.

If yours is not I am truly sorry.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Vega said:


> And making their own choices that MOSTLY impact themselves is 'wrong' because....?
> 
> Not ALL decisions in a marriage are "marital" or "joint" decisions.
> 
> I think one of the keys to a successful marriage is having the WISDOM to know *when* a decision is "joint" and *when *it's NOT.


What qualifies as an issue that needs a joint decision by you and your husband and what does not?
Forget the OP in this case , I would like to hear in your marriage what you think is not necessary for a joint decision and what will upset you if you found out that your husband did, without first getting your explicit agreement on it.


----------



## Vega

Entropy3000 said:


> Because marriage is a partnership.
> 
> If yours is not I am truly sorry.


Yes, marriage IS a partnership. But the partners are still _individuals_, each with their own likes, dislikes, tastes, opinions, beliefs, choices, etc. They each bring their own _individuality_ into the partnership. 

I don't need to include my partner in EVERY decision I make. There's a point where my partner needs to TRUST MY JUDGMENT about *myself*. 

If he doesn't, he married the wrong woman!

Vega


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> If I asked my wife to make a change to a female doctor and made it clear that it was important to me and she discounted that then I would know where I stand. I would not request such a thing unless it was truly important to me. if she felt having this doctor was more important to her than her hsuband then there you go. Not much of a marriage.


and it's simple as that.
My wife is NOT an irrational person , and I am not.

If she made a request or even demanded something that I'm tempted to think is irrational then my first default setting is :

" _my wife is not an irrational person, so this must really be important to her._."

If my default setting is , " i_f she doesn't back down I'm looking for a divorce _" then that's it. The marriage has very deep , serious problems IMO.


----------



## Vega

Lyris said:


> Not all decisions in my (successful, long lasting) marriage are joint. Most, but not all. If a decision doesn't affect the other party in a real, tangible way and doesn't concern children, then there is no vote. Opinions are offered and considered, but there is no veto power in my marriage.


Now THAT'S what I call a person with _WISDOM_! :smthumbup:

Regarding this thread, the OP's wife's decision does NOT affect HIM in a tangible way. HE doesn't have to climb into the stirrups for the exam. HE doesn't have to disrobe. HE doesn't have any instruments probing his 'private parts'. And I'm sure there are other numerous tangible things I haven't mentioned. 

The only way it 'affects' him is _inside his own head_. 

And for me, that wouldn't be "good enough" for me to NOT see a male ob/gyn.

Vega


----------



## COGypsy

Entropy3000 said:


> If I asked my wife to make a change to a female doctor and made it clear that it was important to me and she discounted that then I would know where I stand. I would not request such a thing unless it was truly important to me. if she felt having this doctor was more important to her than her hsuband then there you go. Not much of a marriage.


I would hope however that it would be a topic for discussion. If you're the kind of patient that throws a dart at your insurance provider list to pick a specialist then sure, make your decision based on their gender. I know that personally, if I'm picking a doc for specialty care, then I've read their patient surveys, talked to their clinic staff and to their colleagues about who would be best for the care I need. I would hope that my husband would be more concerned with my having care that was a bit more than "just fine" than he is about whether the doc has a penis or not.

If my husband was more concerned that another guy might see my hoo-hah than with the quality of my care, yes--there would definitely be a problem in my marriage.


----------



## Abc123wife

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


Frankly, I cannot even imagine my husband giving this a second thought. Why are you concerned? A visit to the ob/gyn is as far away from sexually exciting as anything I can even think of. I would feel very controlled if my H wanted to dictate what ob/gyn I saw.


----------



## Entropy3000

Vega said:


> Entropy, I'd like to remind you that being in a long term marriage doesn't necessarily mean that it's a HEALTHY and MATURE marriage. _Longevity_ of a marriage is NOT the end all, be all.
> 
> There are PLENTY of long term marriages that are very, very sick.
> 
> Vega


There is a reason they do not reuse airplane parts from a a plane crash.

But I am speaking from a long term marraige and you can judge as you like. I am NOT giving you a view however from someone who has recently divorced or is in a contentious marriage. 

I can tell you that my wife and I do not seem to have these arguments that tear TAM up.


----------



## Entropy3000

COGypsy said:


> I would hope however that it would be a topic for discussion. If you're the kind of patient that throws a dart at your insurance provider list to pick a specialist then sure, make your decision based on their gender. I know that personally, if I'm picking a doc for specialty care, then I've read their patient surveys, talked to their clinic staff and to their colleagues about who would be best for the care I need. I would hope that my husband would be more concerned with my having care that was a bit more than "just fine" than he is about whether the doc has a penis or not.
> 
> If my husband was more concerned that another guy might see my hoo-hah than with the quality of my care, yes--there would definitely be a problem in my marriage.


Yes, I have repeatedly stated that there is discussion. It just gets old repeating this in every post. This should not be a foregn concept for folks but it seems to be today for some reason.

I am also saying that sometimes we do things for oir spouses. Just becuase it matters to them. It could be a doctor or it could be something else. Coose your battles and your prioroties. There are times in marriage that we do things just for our spouse. No logic ay all. The fact that it matters to them is what counts. This must work both ways.


----------



## Caribbean Man

My wife can make ANY request of me and i can do the same of her.
I'm sorry but i have never considered my wife as irrational.
I've never asked her to for anal sex or anything that she considers degrading or is afraid to try sexually.
Doesn't matter what anybody else thinks about it, what matters is what_ she_ thinks.
I will NEVER try to convince to even try those things because I respect her wishes.
But I'm sure that I can convince her, because she trusts me implicitly.
But I respect her, so I won't do it, unless she explicitly asks for it.

We put each other first, full stop.

If there's a disagreement, we discuss it, if no resolution , then we can give it a rest or one of us agree to back down this time.

Whenever there is a fight for power it is not a good sign for a marriage, especially when one partner feels disenfranchised.

If I see my wife in a disagreement with some other persons I will ALWAYS take her side publicly. Doesn't matter if she's wrong, she's my wife. When we get home we'll discuss things.
Again, she's my wife and I'm her husband.
That's the type of dynamic that exists in our marriage


----------



## GTdad

Abc123wife said:


> Frankly, I cannot even imagine my husband giving this a second thought. Why are you concerned? A visit to the ob/gyn is as far away from sexually exciting as anything I can even think of. I would feel very controlled if my H wanted to dictate what ob/gyn I saw.


I'm a fairly jealous man, and my wife has had the same male ob/gyn for over 25 years. Never even occurred to me to have a problem with him.

Until now. Boy oh boy is he in for it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Vega said:


> Entropy, the issue at hand is NOT that he is "asking" his wife to do/not do something; he's DEMANDING and when she doesn't agree with him, he's trying to CONTROL her.
> 
> Don't you see the difference?


Sigh.

I will state again:

1) I am not defending the OP and the way he is handling this. I disagree with him

2) I would ask my wife to do this if it mattered to me. We would discuss but I know she would do this for me because she loves me and in genernal we think of each other.

I see a difference between 1 and 2.

But hey if I have not been clear enough then I will not be clear enough ever. I have some other things to do. I am sure the OP will gain great insight form tis thrread and do the right thing.

Have a nice evening.


----------



## Abc123wife

couple said:


> Plenty of women choose not to go to male gynecologists simply because they are less comfortable with a man looking at them naked and feel more vulnerable in these activities with a man than with a woman.
> 
> While some might not make the same choice, I think that few people would say it's unreasonable for a woman to choose a female over a male. So why do we say that it's so unreasonable for a man to be uncomfortable with his wife being looked at by a male and being in a vulnerable position with a male (even if we can assume that all activities will be safe and ethical)?
> 
> I totally get that it's ultimately her choice and it's her body, etc but making him sound unreasonable and neurotic for feeling this way is not fair.


So now with this reasoning, part of the interview of a potential female ob/gyn for his wife will need to include questions about her sexual orientation. Right? Don't want to have some person desiring his wife laying on that table with legs up in the stirrups! 

Next, what happens if his wife is in labor and the dr on call at the time is male? Just because his wife selects a female dr does not guarantee that will be the dr available for delivery. You take whoever you get at that time, male or female!


----------



## Cletus

GTdad said:


> I'm a fairly jealous man, and my wife has had the same male ob/gyn for over 25 years. Never even occurred to me to have a problem with him.
> 
> Until now. Boy oh boy is he in for it.


Looks like George Clooney, does he? That bastard...


----------



## GTdad

I agree with Ent in principle: if I feel strongly enough about something, I'll certainly exercise a veto: "No, you're not going to sell the children to Gypsies. No, you're not going to set fire to the house. No, you're not going to have a Mazola Corn orgy with the local PD." Extreme examples, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

As it happens, though, the gender of my wife's treating physician doesn't make the list.


----------



## Caribbean Man

GTdad;5171041[B said:


> *I agree with Ent in principle: if I feel strongly enough about something, I'll certainly exercise a veto: *[/B]"No, you're not going to sell the children to Gypsies. No, you're not going to set fire to the house. No, you're not going to have a Mazola Corn orgy with the local PD." Extreme examples, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.
> 
> As it happens, though, the gender of my wife's treating physician doesn't make the list.


And I think the principle is so easy that it's alomst laughable.

My wife doesn't have to ask me which doctor she should see, because that's is not and never has been an issue. She chooses her doctors and she prefers females because she feels more comfortable doing so for whatever reason.

However , my wife cannot simply jump on a jet plane and head to Hedonism resorts in Jamaica for the weekend and expect me not to have absolutely anything to say.
That's downright disrespectful.

That's the kind of life you live when you're single, not married.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> In answer to your question about the alleged cheating husband, no that is not reason, in my mind, to unilaterally demand that he alter his behavior. I think persuasion would be apropos.


Dis,
You are still missing l the point.
There are times in a marriage when a partner has every right to make demands.
These can be agreed on by both partners in a JPOA before marriage.
An affair, whether emotional or physical is one of those times, a partner can make demands.


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> These can be agreed on by both partners in a JPOA before marriage


This ends the argument between us my friend. 

If the couple agrees to a JOPA then everything is copacetic. I have no dog in this fight with you.

Of course that is a hypothetical that is not relevant to this thread.

Technically, when one of the partners breaks a wedding vow (marital agreement) it is reason to end the marriage.

Some people might be better suited to micromanage to a greater degree, to each their own.

Never can any person rightly demand that someone else fulfill their wishes, they can only offer consequences for a betrayal.

ETA once again, _marriage is not ownership_


----------



## Abc123wife

Caribbean Man said:


> Oh that's simple.
> 
> Do you think that it's acceptable for a wife who's suspicious of her husband's new female " friend " at work, for whatever reason, to make demands on him that he stop having lunch with her and unilaterally dictate his relationship with his new " friend?"
> 
> Therein lies your answer.


Ok, so using your analogy, what proportion of affair these days start between coworkers? What proportion of women have affairs with their ob/gyn? Answer those 2 questions and you will see how ridiculous your analogy is.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Only a man would look at a gyno visit as some sort of sexual thing. I have never, ever gotten a lady boner being in stirrups and shockingly my male ob/gyn doesn't use his penis instead of a speculum either, nor is he anything but totally professional.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Abc123wife said:


> Ok, so using your analogy, what proportion of affair these days start between coworkers? What proportion of women have affairs with their ob/gyn? Answer those 2 questions and you will see how ridiculous your analogy is.




I was referring to a SPECIFIC question which disenchanted posted, and he answered, and we both agreed.

Again, my statement has absolutely nothing to do with the OP whose actions I have already CLEARLY STATED, MULTIPLE TIMES ON THIS THREAD, I DO NOT AGREE WITH 

I have no issue to rant about , i have no experience with power struggles in my marriage that " triggers " me.
I don't need to vent, but if you do then I fully understand.

My analogy wasn't referring to the OP's action.
See how ridiculous _your _ post is?


----------



## janefw

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


I don't see a male GYN right now, but I have in the past. IDC what the gender of my GYN or OB has been, and it hasn't bothered my husband either, in fact when I was pregnant I had a fantastic male OB who took me through a troublesome pregnancy and a C-section. He was awesome. 

I work with both female and male GYN's and they are just doctors, like any other doctor. They haven't undertaken 12 or 13 years of study so that they can turned on by women's genitals. They can do that for free with their wife/gf, or they can go and look at porn or hire a prostitutes - all of which is INCREDIBLY cheaper and less hassle than getting a medical degree. 

Seriously, think about what you're saying. Ask yourself whether, if your wife had cancer and the best oncologist was male, would you make a fuss about him treating her? If you answer yes to that, then you have some serious problems. Basically, you are putting an unfounded (and rather sick) suspicion before the health of your wife, and good for her that she won't let you do that.


----------



## janefw

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Only a man would look at a gyno visit as some sort of sexual thing. I have never, ever gotten a lady boner being in stirrups and shockingly my male ob/gyn doesn't use his penis instead of a speculum either, nor is he anything but totally professional.


Yeah. There's nothing less of a turn-on (speaking for myself obviously) than being poked and prodded by a person wearing latex gloves while spread-eagled in a very uncomfortable manner. :/


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

janefw said:


> Yeah. There's nothing less of a turn-on (speaking for myself obviously) than being poked and prodded by a person wearing latex gloves while spread-eagled in a very uncomfortable manner. :/


You mean that ISN'T foreplay?!


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> T
> 
> Never can any person rightly demand that someone else fulfill their wishes, they can only offer consequences for a betrayal.
> 
> ETA once again, _marriage is not ownership_


 A marriage does not imply ownership, but if you promised to only have sex with your partner, then that partner owns that part of you.
If you promised to only love your partner romantically, then they own your love. It belongs to your partner.
Yes?

And consequences are implicit in a demand. If there are no consequences, a demand has no weight.


----------



## janefw

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You mean that ISN'T foreplay?!


----------



## Created2Write

I still don't think a spouse has the right to "demand" anything of the other, especially if the issue doesn't actually effect the person complaining or their children. They can make respectful requests, and the other can choose to alter their choices or not. But a woman is not wrong for seeing a male GYNO.


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> A marriage does not imply ownership, but if you promised to only have sex with your partner, then that partner owns that part of you.
> If you promised to only love your partner romantically, then they own your love. It belongs to your partner.
> Yes?


This is semantics but I would say no. If it is ownership then it is only really a consensual lease agreement that can be revoked by the actual owner at any time. But then, don't they say that possession is 9/10th of the law? So no, it is never really ownership. It's an agreement.



Caribbean Man said:


> And consequences are implicit in a demand. If there are no consequences, a demand has no weight.


Absolutely, which brings us back around to the theme of the thread. When the consequences are abuse I am against it.

Dude doesn't want his lady splaying herself out in front of whoever and she wants to, his recourse is divorce or reason, not abuse.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Disenchanted said:


> This is semantics but I would say no. If it is ownership then it is only really a consensual lease agreement that can be revoked by the actual owner at any time. But then, don't they say that possession is 9/10th of the law? So no, it is never really ownership. It's an agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely, which brings us back around to the theme of the thread. When the consequences are abuse I am against it.
> 
> Dude doesn't want his lady splaying herself out in front of whoever and she wants to, his recourse is divorce or reason, not abuse.


I think we have already established that OP is wrong.

If my wife decides to have sex with another man and I decide to divorce her and she begs me not to but I still go through with that divorce and then she decides to accuse me of abuse.

Is that abuse?

And if a husband says that he will divorce his wife if she's opposed to anything he does,or tries to " forbid" him to do anything.
Would you consider that abuse?


----------



## Disenchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> I think we have already established that OP is wrong.
> 
> If my wife decides to have sex with another man and I decide to divorce her and she begs me not to but I still go through with that divorce and then she decides to accuse me of abuse.
> 
> Is that abuse?


obviously no



Caribbean Man said:


> And if a husband says that he will divorce his wife if she's opposed to anything he does,or tries to " forbid" him to do anything.
> Would you consider that abuse?


no divorce is not abuse

a·buse (-byz)
tr.v. a·bused, a·bus·ing, a·bus·es
1. To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
2. To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
3. To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
4. To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> I think we have already established that OP is wrong.
> 
> If my wife decides to have sex with another man and I decide to divorce her and she begs me not to but I still go through with that divorce and then she decides to accuse me of abuse.
> 
> Is that abuse?


No, it's not. Every married person has the *RIGHT* to divorce their spouse. 

However, every married person does NOT have the "right" to unilaterally decide that they want to have sex with others, when they already agreed NOT TO, on the day they got married. 

The cheating would be 'abusive'.

Vega


----------



## Maneo

This seemingly never ending thread seems to me to have two themes running side by side.

First is the issue of a female having a male ob-gyn or in broader terms mixed gender patient and health care professional. The majority seem to say "get over it" or some variation. The argument that male doctors lust after female patients quickly can be deflated. I think few will disagree that among all the medical profession there will be unfortunate sporadic incidents of improper behavior but to use those largely isolated incidents to castigate the entire male medical population is, I think most would agree, an irrational leap of logic.

At the same time most who have weighed in on this one, would agree there may be some among the entire population who feel uncomfortable being examined by a health worker of the opposite sex and should have the opportunity to seek medical care with professionals in a setting of most comfort for the patient. This is not to embrace the extreme views of that group advocating absolutely no cross gender health care and a host of other prohibitions. Reasonableness again, on the whole, seems to prevail in the opinions expressed in the thread.

This takes us to the second theme. The OP appears to be one of those uncomfortable with opposite gender doctor-patient encounters. Specifically, his wife seeing a male ob-gyn. Here the issue is not objection that he may have these feelings but that, based on his own posts, he is insisting - not asking - that his wife change her ob-gyn to a female. And the battle lines were quickly drawn and value laden terms like respect and consideration or the lack thereof have been tossed about. 

It seems to me it is the way the OP described his insistence that his wife not see the male doctor that has been the point of contention. There are, no doubt about it, relationships where one spouse - traditionally the man - dictates and the other spouse - traditionally the woman - obeys. Many take umbrage at this scenario while others find the wife in the described situation unfeeling towards her husband. Seems to me those who take the side of the wife argue that while consideration and compromise and respect for one another are important, the fact that the husband demanded his wife change is the tipping point in their view. 

If a relationship is indeed one of equality, fairness and mutual respect, when there are differences of opinion, sometimes the preferences of spouse A prevail; sometimes the preferences of spouse B prevail; sometimes a compromise position of of both spouses is found and followed.

I think if one starts with the assumption that a relationship should be one of give and take, compromise and equality, then there is reason to find fault in the behavior of the husband.

If one starts with the assumption that a relationship should be one where the husband and wife may act with dignity to one another but that the husband's wishes, even if expressed as demands, should be acceded to, at least in areas concerning the wife's interactions with men, then there is reason to find fault in the behavior of the woman.

I think it safe to say from the responses in this thread, the majority opinion is in favor of the wife on both themes. And put my vote with the majority.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Vega said:


> No, it's not. Every married person has the *RIGHT* to divorce their spouse.
> 
> Not too sure about that. There are grounds for divorce. I don't think that everyone has a right to divorce for any reason they deem fit. If a person has the right to divorce , for any reason then marriage makes no sense.
> 
> However, every married person does NOT have the "right" to unilaterally decide that they want to have sex with others, when they already agreed NOT TO, on the day they got married.
> 
> I can agree to this, my reason being that if you promised your love , affection and sex to a person then that person has a right to be the only person you give affection and sex to. They OWn that part of you, because you promised it to them and them only.
> 
> The cheating would be 'abusive'.
> 
> In that case, yes, cheating would be abusive, because abuse in relationship is described as treatment metered out to a partner below the norm , which humiliates that person. Whether by accident or on purpose.
> 
> My point however, is that a partner objecting to something their partner is doing or wants to do does not automatically equate abuse.
> Both parties are supposed to have veto power in a marriage and no one partner should outright dismiss his / her partner's concerns .
> Agreed?
> 
> 
> Vega


----------



## Jack I

turnera said:


> To be fair, a lot of the other threads (a lot!) he has started are about him caring about her and wanting her to want him more and stuff like that. He's not a complete jerk. I just think he is misguided on what it means to be married.



Thanks.And I have to take issue with all the people painting me as an abusive husband.I wouldn't define not letting her use the car as abuse.My wife knows how good I have been to her,the sacrifices I have made.As I said earlier,I waited on her while she recovered from weight loss surgery,supported her while she was laid off,allowed her nieces and nephews to move in with at various times when I was against it.There are a lot of things I could have made a big deal about.Believe me,she is thankful.I don't think my wife would describe me as abusive.I'm supportive
a lot of the time.But she knows how I feel about this and didn't really care that much,and my thought at the time was well you're going my car,that I pay the car note on and you're not considering my feelings.


----------



## mablenc

Jack I said:


> Thanks.And I have to take issue with all the people painting me as an abusive husband.I wouldn't define not letting her use the car as abuse.My wife knows how good I have been to her,the sacrifices I have made.As I said earlier,I waited on her while she recovered from weight loss surgery,supported her while she was laid off,allowed her nieces and nephews to move in with at various times when I was against it.There are a lot of things I could have made a big deal about.Believe me,she is thankful.I don't think my wife would describe me as abusive.I'm supportive
> a lot of the time.But she knows how I feel about this and didn't really care that much,and my thought at the time was well you're going my car,that I pay the car note on and you're not considering my feelings.


Go with her, really you will see you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MissFroggie

Jack I said:


> ...*I have to take issue with all the people painting me as an abusive husband.I wouldn't define not letting her use the car as abuse.*My wife knows how good I have been to her,the sacrifices I have made.As I said earlier,I waited on her while she recovered from weight loss surgery,supported her while she was laid off,allowed her nieces and nephews to move in with at various times when I was against it.There are a lot of things I could have made a big deal about.Believe me,she is thankful.I don't think my wife would describe me as abusive.I'm supportive
> a lot of the time.But she knows how I feel about this and didn't really care that much,and my thought at the time was well you're going my car,that I pay the car note on and you're not considering my feelings.


1. Just because you do not recognise your behaviour as abusive, does not change whether it is or is not.

2. Your wife COULD NOT get an appointment with a female doctor.

3. You then refused her transportation to get medical treatment essential to her health and thereby directly risking her life.

4. If your wife required an ambulance would you turn away paramedics based on gender? If it is acceptable for her to have medical help by a male professional when no female is available why is this any different?

5. If a partner is not comfortable with their partner's decisions they have the right to talk to them about it and ask them to change out of respect for them. They do not have the right to lock them up. The consequence for not compromising when it is a deal-breaker is divorce. Abusing that partner is not acceptable - EVER!

6. Your other posts ARE relevant as they demonstrate your lack of respect for your wife and your hypocrisy in how you treat her. They reinforce the fact that this is not a one-off and is in fact a pattern of abuse that has been going on for quite some time.

7. We ONLY have your version of things to go on and EVEN then we can tell this is abusive...I bet if she was on here we'd be hearing MUCH worse! This is only the things you admit to...and you can't even see them as abusive. I expect what we are hearing is the tip of an iceberg. 

8. Thought I'd add this again for all those criticising the wife for not being sensitive to his insecurities - SHE COULD NOT GET A FEMALE DOCTOR FOR THE MEDICAL CHECK! This is vastly different from seeing a male to deliberately spite him or disrespect him in any way!


----------



## Abc123wife

Caribbean Man said:


> I was referring to a SPECIFIC question which disenchanted posted, and he answered, and we both agreed.
> 
> Again, my statement has absolutely nothing to do with the OP whose actions I have already CLEARLY STATED, MULTIPLE TIMES ON THIS THREAD, I DO NOT AGREE WITH
> 
> I have no issue to rant about , i have no experience with power struggles in my marriage that " triggers " me.
> I don't need to vent, but if you do then I fully understand.
> 
> My analogy wasn't referring to the OP's action.
> See how ridiculous _your _ post is?


Ok sorry for the confusion I had with your post in a thread where the question involved whether a husband had a right to demand that his wife not go to a male ob/gyn.

I guess I missed when the discussion turned to whether a wife had the right to demand that her possibly cheating husband not go to lunch with her male coworker. Didn't realize you meant to be no connection between the discussions (although in the same thread). Silly me!


----------



## LonelyinLove

OMG, this thread really blew up. 

At one time in my life, I was an RN on an L&D floor. Worked with both male and female OB/Gyn's.

I would not go to a female unless I had no other choice. Overall, they had less compassion, shorter fuses, and larger egos than the males. The one time I actually used one, I hurt for days afterward.

I have no idea how my hubs feels about my male OBGyn and frankly, I don't intend to ask. 

He sees a female DO for his Gen Practice issues. 

This has got to be one of the craziest posts ever compounded by spam from a loon (Miss Patient Modesty).


----------



## pidge70

I'm sure I read somewhere on here someone asking what if the female doc is a lesbian? Would that doctor not also possibly be ogling his wife's goodies? 

Also, to get respect you must be able to give respect. Based on this thread and his others, OP does not seem to show his wife much respect. To me, he comes across as a hypocrite.

FWIW, I go to a female GYN although I have went to males in the past. I prefer females as they have smaller hands......:smthumbup:


----------



## diwali123

Jack I said:


> Thanks.And I have to take issue with all the people painting me as an abusive husband.I wouldn't define not letting her use the car as abuse.My wife knows how good I have been to her,the sacrifices I have made.As I said earlier,I waited on her while she recovered from weight loss surgery,supported her while she was laid off,allowed her nieces and nephews to move in with at various times when I was against it.There are a lot of things I could have made a big deal about.Believe me,she is thankful.I don't think my wife would describe me as abusive.I'm supportive
> a lot of the time.But she knows how I feel about this and didn't really care that much,and my thought at the time was well you're going my car,that I pay the car note on and you're not considering my feelings.


Jack how do you rationalize you getting a lap dance, wanting to hire a hooker with not letting your wife go to a male doctor?


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man, 

I'm sorry, but my 'puter isn't working so well right now, so I've had to piece-meal your other quoted post to me. I'll try to do my best to respond, and hopefully y'all can follow along. What I first wrote is in black. CM's thoughts are in red, and my response to him is in blue: 

No, it's not. Every married person has the RIGHT to divorce their spouse. 

Not too sure about that. There are grounds for divorce. I don't think that everyone has a right to divorce for any reason they deem fit. If a person has the right to divorce , for any reason then marriage makes no sense.

Actually, people in all 50 states can now obtain a no-fault divorce. A no fault divorce can be granted on grounds such as irretrievable breakdown of the marriage, irreconcilable differences, incompatibility, or after a period of separation, depending on the state. So, yes, people _can_ divorce for "any reason" they deem fit. The courts are not into preventing anyone from leaving a marriage that they obviously don't wish to be in. 

However, every married person does NOT have the "right" to unilaterally decide that they want to have sex with others, when they already agreed NOT TO, on the day they got married. 

I can agree to this, my reason being that if you promised your love , affection and sex to a person then that person has a right to be the only person you give affection and sex to. They OWn that part of you, because you promised it to them and them only.

I don't agree that your partner "owns" ANY part of you, including your love and affection. If I decide at any point during the marriage that I no longer wish to _give_ my love and affection to my spouse, I may do so via a divorce or annulment, citing "irreconcilable differences" as the 'grounds'. 

The cheating would be 'abusive'.

In that case, yes, cheating would be abusive, because abuse in relationship is described as treatment metered out to a partner below the norm , which humiliates that person. Whether by accident or on purpose.

My point however, is that a partner objecting to something their partner is doing or wants to do does not automatically equate abuse. Agreed. Absolutely. 
Both parties are supposed to have veto power in a marriage and no one partner should outright dismiss his / her partner's concerns .
Agreed?

While I agree that both spouses have 'veto power', I don't agree that they can abuse that power. My spouse does not get to 'veto' what color lipstick I want to wear if *I* like it. He doesn't have to like it, but he doesn't get to insist that I not wear it just because HE doesn't like it. If my spouse loves chocolate ice cream, I certainly don't have 'veto power' over his choice of ice cream! 

On the other hand, if my spouse wants to spend ALL of our _joint funds _on a brand new car that only HE likes, you BET that I will 'veto' that, lol!


----------



## Caribbean Man

pidge70 said:


> FWIW, I go to a female GYN although I have went to males in the past. I prefer females as they have smaller hands......:smthumbup:


Funny eough,
My wife and a couple other women I know say the exact , same thing. It's something I've heard women talk about in hushed tones .
Women's hands are smaller and they tend to be more gentle.
Mind you, my wife has never been to a male OBGYN, because she's not comfortable with the idea.
In any event, my wife visits a clinic that's exclusive to females, doctors , counsellors etc.

In our country there's an entirely different approach to OBGYN and women's health care issues. There are health institutions dedicated to only women's issues and the medical staff is made up mostly of women.

However the best OBGYN are those who have been in the practice for decades, and they are men,just a few old men. But the vast majority of OBGYN are young , female doctors .
BTW, our healthcare is totally free and 100% state funded.


----------



## krismimo

Did the original Op even respond yet? LOL


----------



## Caribbean Man

Vega said:


> On the other hand, if my spouse wants to spend ALL of our _joint funds _on a brand new car that only HE likes, you BET that I will 'veto' that, lol! [/COLOR]


See this is where JOINT AGREEMENT comes in, and this is where I disagree.

My wife and I have SEPARATE accounts , I would love to get that Range Rover with MY money.
But she doesn't like the idea, so I won't.
Even though it's my money, technically it's her's too.If , God Forbids ,something drastic should happen to her, or us tomorrow,or even our extended family and her money nor insurance cannot cover everything. then it's my responsibility to use that money to help her/ us / our respective families in the time of need.
That is how we live.
So even though we have separate accounts she still has veto power over 
* my * money and vice versa.

And yes, she sometimes tells me " _that shirt doesn't look good hun, take it off._." and I sometimes humbly oblige. I don't make a fuss about it. 
She's my best fashion critic, she wants me to look good.
I tell her the same sometimes, and many times I've convinced her, sometimes she keeps it on anyway.

What I'm simply saying , and what I've consistently said in this thread is that when power struggles start in a relationship, it's downhill from there.

And when I got married the idea of divorce, whether " no fault" or not , 
Just never entered into my head. I don't see myself as having a " right" to divorce my wife for any whimsical reason. 

IMO, that could never be a healthy relationship dynamic.
It would be like living with th sword of Damocles over your head.

I think people should first try to work out their problems.
Marriage is work.

A marriage with the imminent thread of divorce for anything, is not a happy marriage IMO.


----------



## turnera

mablenc said:


> Go with her, really you will see you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 HELL yes! Go with her, see how 'attentive' this man is to your wife's body as a sex machine.


----------



## MissFroggie

MissFroggie said:


> 1. Just because you do not recognise your behaviour as abusive, does not change whether it is or is not.
> 
> 2. Your wife COULD NOT get an appointment with a female doctor.
> 
> 3. You then refused her transportation to get medical treatment essential to her health and thereby directly risking her life.
> 
> 4. If your wife required an ambulance would you turn away paramedics based on gender? If it is acceptable for her to have medical help by a male professional when no female is available why is this any different?
> 
> 5. If a partner is not comfortable with their partner's decisions they have the right to talk to them about it and ask them to change out of respect for them. They do not have the right to lock them up. The consequence for not compromising when it is a deal-breaker is divorce. Abusing that partner is not acceptable - EVER!
> 
> 6. Your other posts ARE relevant as they demonstrate your lack of respect for your wife and your hypocrisy in how you treat her. They reinforce the fact that this is not a one-off and is in fact a pattern of abuse that has been going on for quite some time.
> 
> 7. We ONLY have your version of things to go on and EVEN then we can tell this is abusive...I bet if she was on here we'd be hearing MUCH worse! This is only the things you admit to...and you can't even see them as abusive. I expect what we are hearing is the tip of an iceberg.
> 
> 8. Thought I'd add this again for all those criticising the wife for not being sensitive to his insecurities - SHE COULD NOT GET A FEMALE DOCTOR FOR THE MEDICAL CHECK! This is vastly different from seeing a male to deliberately spite him or disrespect him in any way!





turnera said:


> HELL yes! Go with her, see how 'attentive' this man is to your wife's body as a sex machine.


I should have added:
9. He is refusing to go with her as he'd rather just stamp his feet and shout that


Jack I said:


> ...*it wasn't going to happen*...


----------



## turnera

Jack I said:


> But she knows how I feel about this and didn't really care that much,and my thought at the time was well you're going my car,that I pay the car note on and you're not considering my feelings.


Now this is where you are just plain wrong, Jack. First, I get that you feel uncomfortable having another man looking at your wife's vagina. But you really have NO idea what you are talking about. By the time this doctor sees your wife's vagina, he has most likely seen anywhere from 5,000 to 50,000 other vaginas. Trust me, he is NOT getting off on your wife's body. And SHE is doing nothing but wishing it was over.

And second, the fact that you feel entitled to say 'my car, you're not taking it to do something I don't want' is NOT in the spirit of marriage. A marriage is a joint agreement in that you BOTH must be treated with the same amount of respect. Just because she doesn't do what YOU want gives you no right to deny her the access that she, as a MARRIAGE PARTNER, has rights to, to the FAMILY CAR. After all, assets are FAMILY assets.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Jack I said:


> Honestly,I haven't really considered a compromise here.But your post brings me to something else.I have prohibited my wife from doing certain things in the past.But I budged.I compromised.I've been a decent husband for most of our marriage,and I've provided her with certain things,waited on her while she recovered from weight loss surgery,supported her while she was laid off,etc.I feel like she should be the one to compromise here since I have compromised in the past.


You PROHIBITED her?? Sick, truly sick. I cannot believe this thread is still going. 

There IS NO compromise here! This is HER BODY, HER HEALTH, HER DECISION. This has NOTHING to do with you. The fact that you have an issue with a male MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL looking at her lady parts shows the degree of control you possess/think you possess over your wife. Sorry but I find it disgusting.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Caribbean Man said:


> Funny eough,
> BTW, our healthcare is totally free and 100% state funded.




And the State gets their funds from where, exactly......

Nothing is "free".

Total thread jack, I know...


----------



## Caribbean Man

LonelyinLove said:


> And the State gets their funds from where, exactly......
> 
> Nothing is "free".
> 
> Total thread jack, I know...


Oh that's simpke.

Population size- approx 1.5 million.
Approx state revenue - $100 Billion / annum.
Have a look at Norway , our system is a replica of it.


----------



## Jack I

turnera said:


> And second, the fact that you feel entitled to say 'my car, you're not taking it to do something I don't want' is NOT in the spirit of marriage. A marriage is a joint agreement in that you BOTH must be treated with the same amount of respect. Just because she doesn't do what YOU want gives you no right to deny her the access that she, as a MARRIAGE PARTNER, has rights to, to the FAMILY CAR. After all, assets are FAMILY assets.


She does get the same amount of respect.The car issue was just one instance of me perhaps not being the best husband.My point earlier was there have been times where I stopped her from doing things that I wasn't crazy about.But I later compromised.So I'm saying so she should be able to consider my opinion on this.I see the car issue as sort of an isolated incident.


----------



## turnera

Really? What other things, exactly, have you 'stopped' her from doing?


----------



## Jack I

turnera said:


> Really? What other things, exactly, have you 'stopped' her from doing?


Well for example she has a friend/co-worker that she's known for years.This friend knew everything about our marriage.From what we ate when we went out to dinner,to the rough patches,to the arguments,even certain things about our sex life.I wasn't comfortable with her knowing so much.At one point she was suggesting to my wife that she get a divorce.It was really awkward because twice a week I would pick them both up from work at the same time,and take her home as well before I drove my wife home.She would come over for dinner and everything.It just felt uncomfortable having a woman around who was advocating that my wife divorce me.Anyway I told my wife that her friend was no longer welcome in our home.But after boiling it over I understood that this was her friend for over 15 years,and I said she could come over again.And she still comes over to this day.


----------



## turnera

What else?


----------



## Jack I

turnera said:


> What else?


Another time she wanted to go back to school to finish her degree.My original position was going back to school would give her less time to spend with me and make her even more tired.I held my position for a while,and she said she was going to school regardless of what I said,but she didn't go. Again I compromised and eventually and allowed her to go back to school.She's not in school right now only because we can't afford it.But again there have times when I compromised.These aren't things that an abusive husband does.


----------



## turnera

Uh huh.

Because you 'allowed' her to do this or that.

You still don't get it.

And if you don't try really hard pretty soon, you'll be left scratching your head and wondering why she divorced you.


----------



## hopelessromantic1

turnera said:


> Uh huh.
> 
> Because you 'allowed' her to do this or that.
> 
> You still don't get it.
> 
> And if you don't try really hard pretty soon, you'll be left scratching your head and wondering why she divorced you.


He just doesn't get it! "Allowed?" What are they, Amish? Are they a strict old fashioned Christian home where the husband holds the Bible and decides what's best for the family?


----------



## Jack I

turnera said:


> Uh huh.
> 
> Because you 'allowed' her to do this or that.
> 
> You still don't get it.
> 
> And if you don't try really hard pretty soon, you'll be left scratching your head and wondering why she divorced you.


No I get it.Trust me,I have the utmost respect for her.And we're not divorcing,that was just something her friend was advocating.


----------



## turnera

YOU think you're not divorcing. Trust me, she'll get to it.

And, no, you DON'T get it. No one gave you the right to allow or disallow ANYTHING your wife does. Not even God.


----------



## Jack I

turnera said:


> And she has only one vagina, which is hers.
> 
> Should she remove it from your use, too, if she feels like it?


Haha.She's done so before,as I've discussed in other threads.


----------



## weightlifter

Jack I said:


> Haha.She's done so before,as I've discussed in other threads.


LOL different subject.
That I and many here know all to well.

LOL you made my hour laughing at that one.


----------



## Created2Write

Jack, I think you genuinely care about your wife. But you argue with others way too much. You come here for help, and when people try to offer it, you keep trying to defend yourself. Guess what? You've made some pretty horrible mistakes as a husband. You've supported your wife when she couldn't have managed without assistance, but it sounds like you feel resentment toward her for those things. Husbands vow to look after their wives when they're sick. You don't get a husband-of-the-year award just for looking after her when she's sick. 

Please consider this question: why do you need to control her?


----------



## hopelessromantic1

Created2Write said:


> Jack, I think you genuinely care about your wife. But you argue with others way too much. You come here for help, and when people try to offer it, you keep trying to defend yourself. Guess what? You've made some pretty horrible mistakes as a husband. You've supported your wife when she couldn't have managed without assistance, but it sounds like you feel resentment toward her for those things. Husbands vow to look after their wives when they're sick. You don't get a husband-of-the-year award just for looking after her when she's sick.


:iagree: My husband is guilty of this too....he is not a nurturer by nature, and has been a bit lousy for a couple of years. Now that he's "trying" he wants a sucker every time he does something good. When you marry someone, you're telling them that's what you WANT to do for the rest of your life, that's what the other person DESERVES. You don't get a bozo button for being a good spouse just because you used to suck. LOL...but I agree Jack, I think you care for your wife, I just worry that your idea of how to care for another person is a little skewed from the norm. Maybe some sensitivity training would do you some good. I think if you tried to look at things from her perspective, or learned how to try to do that, you'd get far!


----------



## Jack I

Created2Write said:


> Jack, I think you genuinely care about your wife. But you argue with others way too much. You come here for help, and when people try to offer it, you keep trying to defend yourself. Guess what? You've made some pretty horrible mistakes as a husband. You've supported your wife when she couldn't have managed without assistance, but it sounds like you feel resentment toward her for those things. Husbands vow to look after their wives when they're sick. You don't get a husband-of-the-year award just for looking after her when she's sick.
> 
> Please consider this question: why do you need to control her?


I don't.I just feel that marriage is a give and take situation.I also feel that if I can consider her feelings on certain issues than she should be able to do the same thing for me.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Jack I said:


> I don't.I just feel that marriage is a give and take situation.I also feel tha*t if I can consider her feelings on certain issues *than she should be able to do the same thing for me.


The point you seem to be missing here is that the SEX OF HER DR IS NOT AN ISSUE. Stop trying to make it one, and stop punishing her for it.


----------



## COGypsy

Jack I said:


> I don't.I just feel that marriage is a give and take situation.I also feel that if I can consider her feelings on certain issues than she should be able to do the same thing for me.


The thing is, when you talk about "allowing" and "forbidding", that has absolutely nothing to do with a "give and take situation". That is just taking, taking, taking.


----------



## skype

As others have told you, Jack, a gyno visit is not a sexual encounter. It is simply a doctor doing his job. No reason for you to fear anything.


----------



## TikiKeen

hopelessromantic1 said:


> You don't get a bozo button for being a good spouse just because you used to suck.


So much this. Consistency over time matters.


----------



## Disenchanted

Jack I said:


> I just feel that marriage is a give and take situation


By the language that you use (and you know, maybe this is just a language issue) like "let her" and "allowed her" and "told her it wasn't happening", it sounds like you think marriage _is_ a give and take arrangement.

She gives and you take.


----------



## Created2Write

Jack I said:


> I don't.I just feel that marriage is a give and take situation.I also feel that if I can consider her feelings on certain issues than she should be able to do the same thing for me.


You're right, marriage is a give and take. But, Jack, you _aren't_ giving. In trying to get her to stop hanging out with her friend, you didn't _ask_ her to stop seeing the friend, you just ordered her. That's not being respectful. If her friend made you uncomfortable, this is an example of how you should have handled that: "Babe, I know that you and x have been friends for a very long time, but I'm really uncomfortable with how much she's told about us. Do you think you could limit some of the details you tell her? If not, perhaps it would be best if she not be around me. It's very awkward for me. She's encouraging you to divorce me, and I'm not comfortable with that."

Then there's actual _conversation_ about the issue instead of you just demanding you get your way. Because, even though you gave in later, it's _still_ a bad situation because your feelings weren't actually discussed and considered. 

Do you see my point?


----------



## turnera

Jack I said:


> I don't.I just feel that marriage is a give and take situation.I also feel that if I can consider her feelings on certain issues than she should be able to do the same thing for me.


It's fine to FEEL that way. The problem is when you EXPECT her to feel that way. That's not fair, and it's not conducive to a marriage where BOTH of you are getting what you want. 

Why do you think her friend spent so much time urging her to leave you?

Because (1) her friend SAW a lot of the things we're trying to warn you about and/or (2) your wife is TELLING her that she's not happy with you being this way.

Have you ever heard of a walkaway wife? It's a fairly common occurrence, the wife accepts the 'stronger' male's ways, occupies herself with raising the kids, tries to keep the love burning, but eventually his 'stronger' ways (I know what's best, etc.) reduce that love to just embers...and then she gives up and leaves.

It's great that you love her and want her. But until you can stop focusing on what SHE is doing, and pay more attention to what YOU are doing and how she's experiencing it, you are unlikely to get what you want.


----------



## turnera

Created2Write said:


> Because, even though you gave in later, it's _still_ a bad situation because her feelings weren't actually discussed and considered.


This is called a Love Buster.



> Since we don't feel what others feel, we tend to minimize the negative effects we have on others, and consider our thoughtlessness to be benign. An angry outburst is regarded by some as a creative expression. Disrespect is viewed as helping the other spouse gain proper perspective. And a demand is nothing more than encouraging a spouse to do what he or she should have done all along. None of these is seen as one spouse gaining at the other's expense, because the spouse who is inflicting the pain does not feel the pain. But whenever one spouse is the cause of the other's unhappiness, one thing's for sure -- Love Bank withdrawals are taking place.
> 
> I call all the ways that spouses are inconsiderate of each other's feelings Love Busters because that what they do -- they destroy the love that a husband and wife have for each other.
> 
> I've found that the most common Love Busters in marriage fall into six categories: Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgments, Angry Outbursts, Annoying Habits, Independent Behavior and Dishonesty
> 
> The first three of these Love Busters are instinctive, yet thoughtless, ways to try to get what you want from each other. When a request doesn't work, a spouse will often revert to a demand ("I don't care how you feel -- do it or else!"). If that doesn't get the job done, a spouse will try disrespectful judgments ("If you had any sense, and were not so lazy and selfish, you would do it"). And then, when all of that fails, an angry outburst often represents the last ditch effort ("I'll see to it that you regret not having done it").
> 
> Of course, demands, disrespect and anger don't really get the job done. You generally don't do things for your spouse because of these Love Busters, you do them out of care and consideration. If your spouse is demanding, disrespectful and angry, you tend to be less caring and considerate, leading you to do less for your spouse. Instead of giving your spouse what he or she needs, demands, disrespect and anger cause you to resist. I want you to have what you need in your marriage, but demands, disrespect and anger will not get it for you. They will prevent you from having what you want if you revert to these destructive instincts.
> 
> But when you indulge in these three Love Busters, you do more than fail to get what you need -- you also destroy the love your spouse has for you. All of these instincts, and the habits they help create, cause your spouse to be unhappy, and that causes Love Bank withdrawals.
> 
> The fourth Love Buster, Annoying Habits, is behavior that is repeated without much thought that bothers your spouse. Marriage is a partnership of incredibly close quarters, where just about anything you or your spouse does is almost sure to affect the other. If you want to stay in love with each other, your habits, even the innocent ones, should make Love Bank deposits, not withdrawals.
> 
> The fifth Love Buster is Independent Behavior, the conduct of one spouse that ignores the feelings and interests of the other spouse. If your decisions are made as if your spouse doesn't even exist, you will find yourself running roughshod over your spouse's feelings and your Love Bank account. Since it's usually scheduled and requires some thought to execute, the simplest way to overcome it is to take it off your schedule. And if you follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, Independent Behavior will never find itself on your schedule in the first place.
> 
> Finally, the sixth Love Buster, Dishonesty, causes massive Love Bank withdrawals whenever it's discovered. And spouses usually discover each other's dishonesty because of their emotional closeness to each other. If you or your spouse have a tendency to lie or distort the truth, chase that bad habit out of your marriage before it ruins everything.


Love Busters


----------



## LadyAsia

I don't get why you're so worried (I didn't read the whole thread, sorry!). He's a gynecologist, a professional, he won't be checking you're wife out. Plus these check ups are made to preserve the dignity of the patient as much as possible. I think you're wife sees your demand as unreasonable because there really is no reason for you to be worried. That's why she doesn't want to give into it. It's not because she doesn't love you or compromise on important issues, but this is a non-issue to her, as it really should be.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?



?? What is this, Afghanistan??










Not so long ago there were ONLY male gynaecologists....


----------



## MissFroggie

Jack I said:


> Well for example she has a friend/co-worker that she's known for years.This friend knew everything about our marriage.From what we ate when we went out to dinner,to the rough patches,to the arguments,even certain things about our sex life.I wasn't comfortable with her knowing so much.At one point she was suggesting to my wife that she get a divorce.It was really awkward because twice a week I would pick them both up from work at the same time,and take her home as well before I drove my wife home.She would come over for dinner and everything.It just felt uncomfortable having a woman around who was advocating that my wife divorce me.Anyway I told my wife that her friend was no longer welcome in our home.But after boiling it over I understood that this was her friend for over 15 years,and I said she could come over again.And she still comes over to this day.


Good friend ... looks like the wife has some support after all 



Jack I said:


> Another time she wanted to go back to school to finish her degree.My original position was *going back to school would give her less time to spend with me* and make her even more tired.I held my position for a while,and she said she was going to school regardless of what I said,but she didn't go. Again I compromised and eventually and allowed her to go back to school.She's not in school right now only because we can't afford it.But again there have times when I compromised.These aren't things that an abusive husband does.


Your selfishness knows no bounds lol



turnera said:


> Uh huh.
> 
> Because you 'allowed' her to do this or that.
> 
> You still don't get it.
> 
> And if you don't try really hard pretty soon, you'll be left scratching your head and wondering why she divorced you.


With the hookers and strippers I expect it will be something else he's scratching lol.



turnera said:


> It's fine to FEEL that way. The problem is when you EXPECT her to feel that way. That's not fair, and it's not conducive to a marriage where BOTH of you are getting what you want.
> 
> Why do you think her friend spent so much time urging her to leave you?
> 
> Because (1) her friend SAW a lot of the things we're trying to warn you about and/or (2) your wife is TELLING her that she's not happy with you being this way.
> 
> Have you ever heard of a walkaway wife? It's a fairly common occurrence, the wife accepts the 'stronger' male's ways, occupies herself with raising the kids, tries to keep the love burning, but eventually his 'stronger' ways (I know what's best, etc.) reduce that love to just embers...and then she gives up and leaves.
> 
> It's great that you love her and want her. But until you can *stop focusing on what SHE is doing, and pay more attention to what YOU are doing and how she's experiencing it,* you are unlikely to get what you want.


Spot on! I think this guy might be beyond help though, he is set in his ways and knows everything, is always right and doesn't care about his wife. He THINKS he cares, but his actions do not reflect that. He has confused ownership with love, they do not come hand in hand.


----------



## Coach8

I don't care if my wife goes to male or female gyno. Unless she's wanting to get a check up every other week, I don't think you have anything to worry about.


----------



## TeaLeaves4

CM said: 
"Not too sure about that. There are grounds for divorce. I don't think that everyone has a right to divorce for any reason they deem fit. If a person has the right to divorce , for any reason then marriage makes no sense."

Who decides whose reason is good enough? Or whose version of events is the truth? I believe we all have the right to divorce when a situation becomes intolerable to us. I will not give someone else the power to decide my fate like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## amanthatcares

hello,

i have had this issue affect me as well. my wife wanted a male doctor, and ever since i found out what the exams are it bothered me. i had to tell her the way i felt about it, it drove me almost insane thinking about my wife being seen in such an intimate fashion by another man, and she was pregnant, so i knew there would be multiple exams. when i talked to her, she agreed to switch to a female for me. we both care about each others feelings, and just as i do my best not to do anything that would hurt her feelings or make her feel jealous, she does the same for me. i dont understand why a woman would not be willing to switch doctors if it bothered her husband that much. it is completely normal to have these feelings. i have to take the side of the op. if my wife were unwilling, i would probably leave,and find someone a little more understanding.:iagree:


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## SunnyT

What if your wife's female doctor were gay? 

I guess that wouldn't matter since she (wife) isn't there for sex. Oh wait.....


----------



## Maneo

amanthatcares said:


> hello,
> 
> i have had this issue affect me as well. my wife wanted a male doctor, and ever since i found out what the exams are it bothered me. i had to tell her the way i felt about it, it drove me almost insane thinking about my wife being seen in such an intimate fashion by another man, and she was pregnant, so i knew there would be multiple exams. when i talked to her, she agreed to switch to a female for me. we both care about each others feelings, and just as i do my best not to do anything that would hurt her feelings or make her feel jealous, she does the same for me. i dont understand why a woman would not be willing to switch doctors if it bothered her husband that much. it is completely normal to have these feelings. i have to take the side of the op. if my wife were unwilling, i would probably leave,and find someone a little more understanding.:iagree:


Your wife is caring and understanding. I have to disagree with your statement that having the feelings you have is completely normal. Others in this thread have iterated the many reasons such feelings are neither rational nor to be considered the norm. And to have the feelings so strongly that you act on them and your wife goes along with your desires puts you even further from the norm.


----------



## 6301

amanthatcares said:


> hello,
> 
> i have had this issue affect me as well. my wife wanted a male doctor, and ever since i found out what the exams are it bothered me. i had to tell her the way i felt about it, it drove me almost insane thinking about my wife being seen in such an intimate fashion by another man, and she was pregnant, so i knew there would be multiple exams. when i talked to her, she agreed to switch to a female for me. we both care about each others feelings, and just as i do my best not to do anything that would hurt her feelings or make her feel jealous, she does the same for me. i dont understand why a woman would not be willing to switch doctors if it bothered her husband that much. it is completely normal to have these feelings. i have to take the side of the op. if my wife were unwilling, i would probably leave,and find someone a little more understanding.:iagree:


 Seriously, it's because people like you can't see the forest from the trees. 

Do you really think that is a turn on for your wife and the doctor? 

What if there was no female doctor when your wife goes in to labor except for the dreaded slobbering dirt under his fingernails male doctor just dying to get a freebie sneak peek at your wife's jewels. God God the erection he must be having seeing a woman whose been in labor for 10, 12, 15 hours and just wants this to be over with, no make up, hair a mess, sweaty, uncomfortable and her idiot husband tell her to hold on for another 2 hours until a female doctor can be found. Not to mention that she just might $h!t on the table in front of him from all the pushing. 

I've been in the delivery room twice when my kids were born and the only thing the doctor wants to do is deliver your kid so he can go back home after being woke up in the middle of the night. I didn't care what he saw. My wife and I were only thinking of our child being born and there was nothing sexual about it. Grow up dude and act like a man for once!


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## mablenc

I think missy is back with another name.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MissFroggie

amanthatcares said:


> hello,
> 
> i have had this issue affect me as well. my wife wanted a male doctor, and ever since i found out what the exams are it bothered me. i had to tell her the way i felt about it, it drove me almost insane thinking about my wife being seen in such an intimate fashion by another man, and she was pregnant, so i knew there would be multiple exams. when i talked to her, she agreed to switch to a female for me. we both care about each others feelings, and just as i do my best not to do anything that would hurt her feelings or make her feel jealous, she does the same for me. i dont understand why a woman would not be willing to switch doctors if it bothered her husband that much. it is completely normal to have these feelings. i have to take the side of the op. if my wife were unwilling, i would probably leave,and find someone a little more understanding.:iagree:


Maybe you should read the whole thread. They didn't discuss it, he told her what to do. She can't change drs because there isn't a female one available. He is an abusive, controlling, cheating partner who is preventing his wife from getting essential medical treatment by preventing her from using the car to get to the appointment....while he thinks hiring hookers for anal and hanging out with strippers and getting lap dances is fine. You on the other hand discussed it with your wife and she was both willing and ABLE to change to a female dr...would you have refused to allow her treatment if a female was not available?


----------



## amanthatcares

of coarse if my wifes life was on the line i would not care who it was that treated her, but i cant think of very many situations where a pelvic exam meant the differance between immediate life and death...and as for some of the other comments, i am sure thatit is normal to feel the way i do. in fact, male gynecologist didnt even come along until recent times, before the 1800's 99% of babies were delivered by female midwife. and even when doctors began pelvic exams it was considered to be to risque for many women, but in our day morality means nothing to many, and nothing makes anyone blush anymore


----------



## amanthatcares

6301 said:


> Seriously, it's because people like you can't see the forest from the trees.
> 
> Do you really think that is a turn on for your wife and the doctor?
> 
> What if there was no female doctor when your wife goes in to labor except for the dreaded slobbering dirt under his fingernails male doctor just dying to get a freebie sneak peek at your wife's jewels. God God the erection he must be having seeing a woman whose been in labor for 10, 12, 15 hours and just wants this to be over with, no make up, hair a mess, sweaty, uncomfortable and her idiot husband tell her to hold on for another 2 hours until a female doctor can be found. Not to mention that she just might $h!t on the table in front of him from all the pushing.
> 
> I've been in the delivery room twice when my kids were born and the only thing the doctor wants to do is deliver your kid so he can go back home after being woke up in the middle of the night. I didn't care what he saw. My wife and I were only thinking of our child being born and there was nothing sexual about it. Grow up dude and act like a man for once!


sorry, but i disagree with you. i have been there four times myself. and since when is allowing another man to see and touch your wife naked a sign of maturity or manhood? also, i would point out, anytime the pants come off, there is always something sexual about it, there is no way around it. granted it is not the same as other times, but the element is still there. i would also mention that for most of the pregnany, your wife will not be in labor and look as you described above. in fact my wife didnt really begin to show until about 4-5 months. just because it is a pregnancy does not diminish the need for privacy and dignity, in fact we should all the more seek to protect(her dignity) as she is most vulneraable at that time than at other times. so, i disagree with you.


----------



## BFGuru

amanthatcares said:


> of coarse if my wifes life was on the line i would not care who it was that treated her, but i cant think of very many situations where a pelvic exam meant the differance between immediate life and death...and as for some of the other comments, i am sure thatit is normal to feel the way i do. in fact, male gynecologist didnt even come along until recent times, before the 1800's 99% of babies were delivered by female midwife. and even when doctors began pelvic exams it was considered to be to risque for many women, but in our day morality means nothing to many, and nothing makes anyone blush anymore


So, you are saying that because I clean the stool off of my male bed bound patients perineum, including genitals because they are laying when they stool, that I have no morals? Excuse me, but just because I don't blush cleaning him does not mean anything other than, I do not wish him to get a gaping sore from skin break down that will get infected, and cause sepsis which will kill if untreated. 

The idea that examining and treating the genitalia region is immoral is probably one of the most asinine things someone can assume. Trust me, I do not get my jollies bathing an incapacitated male. I do not get my jollies cathetarizing either gender. It simply must be done. Regardless of if there is a male present to do it for me or not. 

Stop assigning sin to that which it is not. Some things are necessary. Others are sexual. Learn the difference between the two.


----------



## mablenc

My mother is currently seeing the only urologist in the city, he's male. She was talking about how nice and concerned he is and how she feels that he cares for her. I thought about all the nonsense in this thread. She so grateful that he is taking good care of her. I think that that's what really matters. She feels he listens to her and is respectful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## amanthatcares

BFGuru said:


> So, you are saying that because I clean the stool off of my male bed bound patients perineum, including genitals because they are laying when they stool, that I have no morals? Excuse me, but just because I don't blush cleaning him does not mean anything other than, I do not wish him to get a gaping sore from skin break down that will get infected, and cause sepsis which will kill if untreated.
> 
> The idea that examining and treating the genitalia region is immoral is probably one of the most asinine things someone can assume. Trust me, I do not get my jollies bathing an incapacitated male. I do not get my jollies cathetarizing either gender. It simply must be done. Regardless of if there is a male present to do it for me or not.
> 
> Stop assigning sin to that which it is not. Some things are necessary. Others are sexual. Learn the difference between the two.


well, for one, men and women are wired differantly, and view the genitles, differantly. ifor one would not allow a male to bathe my wife, no matter how noble it may seem. it would be inappropriate, and i disagree with cross-gender intimate care, (pending some life-threatening event of coarse)


there is a website that lends support to people that suffer from these kinds of issues, where they feel that their dignity has been unfairly and unduly compromised, or are simply having a difficult time dealing with the feelings asociated with this type of traumatic experience:

Medical Patient Modesty

to the OP, i doubt you will get any empathetic people here on this forum, please check out the link above they are pretty good at helping people sort their feelings out, and no one will condemn you there for the way you feel.


----------



## 6301

mablenc said:


> My mother is currently seeing the only urologist in the city, he's male. She was talking about how nice and concerned he is and how she feels that he cares for her. I thought about all the nonsense in this thread. She so grateful that he is taking good care of her. I think that that's what really matters. She feels he listens to her and is respectful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Trouble is some guys think that the next thing she'll be doing is dying her hair, getting a new wardrobe, losing weight and getting a bikini wax. It's a doctor. Doctors tell people to drop their pants to get a shot in the ass. If I was sick and hurting I wouldn't care if I had to drop trou in the parking lot for a shot that will relieve me of the pain.


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## Unique Username

wow


actually the first gynecologist was a male


regardless of gender, the best doctor you can afford, and that you are comfortable discussing everything with - is the best choice.

Often, women only see a gynecologist once a year and cram all the ills of the past year into that visit, Competence and rapport with his/her patient is the most important. 

And, frankly yes one visit can mean life or death. Cervical cancer is undetectable without a pap smear. Breast cancer can be caught very early with excellent chances for survival. Early detection is REALLY important. 

I personally prefer female rather than a male gynecologist.
But I have had both - there is nothing sexual or erotic about a physical exam. Most male gynecologists have the female assistant remain in the room.

OP attitude about gender of his wife's doctor is Neanderthal in thinking. You need to check your control issues and personal hang-ups Dude. You are barking down the path to unhappiness for your wife (and kids if and when you have them)


----------



## turnera

amanthatcares said:


> sorry, but i disagree with you. i have been there four times myself. and since when is allowing another man to see and touch your wife naked a sign of maturity?


Since it means being an ADULT and realizing this doctor is doing his JOB and he looks at thousands of female body parts and sees just that - a JOB. To not be able to see the difference IS immature.

Are you even aware that he doesn't look at A NAKED BODY? She wears a gown, she wears a blanket from the waist down to her knees, and for maybe ONE MINUTE, the nurse pulls the blanket up to uncover about a 3-square-inch of skin for the doctor to palpate inside the cavity to feel for lumps. Then he's done and she is once again covered up and she sits back up. Always with a female nurse in the room.

Voila! There is the mystery of the female exam in a basket.


----------



## temperance

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


Jack, I used to only visit female gyn, two years ago 2 male gyn saved my life! I was in pain for whole five years going through different gyns and couldn't find out what's wrong with me. Finally I got referred to this male gyn, years of experience and very professional, he found out what was wrong but even he couldn't fix me, so he referred me to another gyn who is also a male, harvard graduated, he assemble a team of experts to fix me up! 

Let her pick a doctor she feels competent and trust to take care of her health, regardless of gender. Gyn have trained to do their job Well. I know how you feel, ask me how I feel about my husband seeing a female family doctor check his balls while there are thousands of other male doctors who can do the same job... but ultimately is the competence and who we trust to take care of our health that's important.


----------



## temperance

Jack I said:


> I'm not fond of some guy looking at my wife's vagina.And thinking about who knows what while he's doing it..Honestly, what makes a guy choose this as a profession?


This is such an interesting threat you started Jack! I know some guys who choose the profession because they saw their mother, sisters or close relatives suffers or die due to some woman's aliment like cancer, child birth complications, mood swings, depression due to hormones, pain, etc. These men go into the profession to truly help, which also make them very good doctors because they are dedicated, and have the 'hero' mindset, if they cannot save their mom, they save somebody else mom. There are young guys however going into this profession because they 'thought' they can see woman's ***** all day... I tell you... these guys couldn't last in the program and drop out without getting pass the first year. 

There are also guys I know going in for money... child birth is one of the most lucrative practice... fortunate and unfortunate!


----------



## Blonde

My husband has expressed the same objections as you, Jack I (in fact he looked over my shoulder at what I was reading and said so again). And he didn't want me going back to school, reading certain books, having certain friends, etc...



MissFroggie said:


> One of your previous posts:
> 
> "Random question.I got a lap dance last year from a woman at a strip club.I never told anyone about it.I was wondering,is this considered cheating?What do you guys think?Why or why not?I wondered about it when it happened,and I just watched a television show where a husband gets a lap dance and the wife gets upset.Curious to see what you all think."
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...nd-gets-lap-dance-another-woman-cheating.html
> 
> We can see it from your point of view now - you can have a secret lapdance with a stripper for your pleasure, but your wife had better not see a male doctor for her health!


Jack I what you are doing is called projection. You are projecting your attitudes onto your wife. You will have a lap dance with someone of the opposite gender--> feed your lust behind your wife's back. So you assume your wife is going to do it.

The more you feed your own lusts with lap dances, anal porn, prostitutes, etc, the more suspicious (and controlling) you will be of your wife and her relationships and aspirations.

I hope for her sake that she has good friends and support and stops allowing you to project your issues onto her and control her life.


----------



## Blonde

I have had a couple traumatic experiences with male gynecologists who exploited the access during a season when I was being evaluated and had gyn surgery at age 23. Wish I knew how to stand up for myself better back then...

But I have had good ones who delivered some of my children, as well as some good midwives who delivered others of my children.

Nowadays, my husband just has to put up with my freedom to choose my health care providers and use the family car to get there. I do not allow him to control those decisions nor my decisions about my schooling, books I read, nor friends I have. My activities are benign; I do nothing which I need to be ashamed of.


----------



## janefw

amanthatcares said:


> of coarse if my wifes life was on the line i would not care who it was that treated her, but i cant think of very many situations where a pelvic exam meant the differance between immediate life and death...and as for some of the other comments, i am sure thatit is normal to feel the way i do. in fact, male gynecologist didnt even come along until recent times, before the 1800's 99% of babies were delivered by female midwife. and even when doctors began pelvic exams it was considered to be to risque for many women, but in our day morality means nothing to many, and nothing makes anyone blush anymore


Uh, does the word 'cancer' mean anything to you? An exam can mean the difference between life and death. 

And, no it's normal - and you're wrong. For a long time, men ruled the medical profession. So, it's not new to have male OB/GYNS

It's stupid to equate the gender of a doctor with morality.


----------



## MissFroggie

janefw said:


> amanthatcares said:
> 
> 
> 
> of coarse if my wifes life was on the line i would not care who it was that treated her, but i cant think of very many situations where a pelvic exam meant the differance between immediate life and death...and as for some of the other comments, i am sure thatit is normal to feel the way i do. in fact, male gynecologist didnt even come along until recent times, *before the 1800's *99% of babies were delivered by female midwife. and even when doctors began pelvic exams it was considered to be to risque for many women, but in our day morality means nothing to many, and nothing makes anyone blush anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> janefw said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, does the word 'cancer' mean anything to you? An exam can mean the difference between life and death.
> 
> And, no it's normal - and you're wrong. For a long time, men ruled the medical profession. So, it's not new to have male OB/GYNS
> 
> It's stupid to equate the gender of a doctor with morality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :iagree: I can't help but also mention that before the 1800's a lot of women (and babies) died too - there have been many medical advances and to equate medical rationale with pre-1800's is a more than a bit daft. The major facts here are that OP has not 'discussed' this with his wife, his wife CAN NOT get a female expert and he has double standards and is projecting his own issues of disrespect and improper conduct onto his innocent wife. Maybe I am wrong and amanthatcares would like to revert to pre-1800's medicine...he could burn his wife at the stake as a witch too if she dared to disagree with him lol
Click to expand...


----------



## reef3314

What's the problem? I would actually prefer my wife to see a male gyno. Not to start a gender war here but I am more confident with a male doing that type of job. I admit I'm a little sexist, but, I will also argue women are much better than men in a lot of areas too. Either way, you're over-reacting my friend. 
Think of this. 99% of the women who go there have some kind of issue down there. The majority of those are elderly and not kept up. I personally would never become a gyno bc I don't think I'd ever look at my wife the same. If there's a guy in that position, he is not doing it for the thrills.


----------



## Created2Write

amanthatcares said:


> of coarse if my wifes life was on the line i would not care who it was that treated her, but i cant think of very many situations where a pelvic exam meant the differance between immediate life and death...and as for some of the other comments, i am sure thatit is normal to feel the way i do. in fact, male gynecologist didnt even come along until recent times, before the 1800's 99% of babies were delivered by female midwife. and even when doctors began pelvic exams it was considered to be to risque for many women, but in our day morality means nothing to many, and nothing makes anyone blush anymore


Dude, there is nothing risque about a pelvic exam. And, by the way, there are other exams that require the female to be naked down below. 

I had the Mirena IUD for a while, and had issue after issue after issue with it. These issues can cause death, and each time I went into the doctor to have it checked out, it was a male doctor. I've also had issues with urinary tract infections, that can cause kidney infections, which can be very dangerous, and each time I went in to the emergency room, and followed up with a Urologist, it was a male doctor. 

None of these exams were fun or sexy.


----------



## Created2Write

turnera said:


> Since it means being an ADULT and realizing this doctor is doing his JOB and he looks at thousands of female body parts and sees just that - a JOB. To not be able to see the difference IS immature.
> 
> Are you even aware that he doesn't look at A NAKED BODY? She wears a gown, she wears a blanket from the waist down to her knees, and for maybe ONE MINUTE, the nurse pulls the blanket up to uncover about a 3-square-inch of skin for the doctor to palpate inside the cavity to feel for lumps. Then he's done and she is once again covered up and she sits back up. Always with a female nurse in the room.
> 
> Voila! There is the mystery of the female exam in a basket.


Exactly. The pelvic exams I've had were less than a minute long. The Urologist who examined my urinary tract(by sticking two fingers into my urethra, right below my clitoris) took less than a minute as well. And in both there were female nurses right there. 

Oh, and the actual exam rooms? The most unsexy places in the world. They're freezing cold, I'm in the most unflattering robe with a pattern that looks like something that would be sewn on a quilt, sitting on exam tables that look like they're going to be comfy but are anything but, and by the time he comes in I'm in a horrible mood cause he kept me waiting forever. 

Guys who are worried/uncomfortable about this need to examine themselves and get over their insecurity.


----------



## Onmyway

As a male that is currently in nursing school, I can say that there is nothing sexy at all about the medical field.

People just need to get over the male/female sexism for doctors/nurses.

My old GP was a woman, and it didn't bother me in the slightest, why should it, I'm there for health reasons, not a hookup, and she was there doing her job, not a hookup. 

My wife's ob/gyn was a male, and I could bet that he wasn't there for hookups either.


----------



## amanthatcares

well, not everyone is comfortable with a male, i happen to be one that does think it is inappropriate contact, and just as we have male/female restrooms for a reason, it is not unreasonable to desire the same when it comes to medical treatment. these exams have not been going on long at all in the overall scheme of things, and if something was considered wrong long ago, it should still be wrong today in spite of technological advances.
i didnt really come to debate, only to make the op aware that other men feel the same as he does.
i have pretty much always felt that way, and there are plenty of others that feel this way too.
you are of coarse welcome to your own opinion.

i would also add, that it has nothing to do with insecurity, or maturity. it is a matter of your conscience(at least i speak for myself)


----------



## turnera

amanthatcares said:


> well, not everyone is comfortable with a male, i happen to be one that does think it is inappropriate contact


You have got to be kidding.

Inappropriate CONTACT?

I feel sorry for the woman in your life.


----------



## Cletus

So now that we've uncovered the secrets of the female pelvic exam, we should probably do the same for prostate exams, in all fairness.

Just a little levity for your day.

November Sweeps Prostacular - The Colbert Report - 2013-14-11 - Video Clip | Comedy Central


----------



## Theseus

amanthatcares said:


> well, not everyone is comfortable with a male, i happen to be one that does think it is inappropriate contact,


Unfortunately, your attitude is still prevalent in places like Afghanistan, where male doctors can't examine women (and there are almost no female doctors). 

Interestingly, I feel exactly the opposite. In the military, when I had to get a prostate exam, I deliberately sought out a female doctor to do it, because I didn't want a man touching me there!


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## Starstarfish

I wish I could like your post more than once, Cletus,


----------



## BFGuru

Once upon a time it was considered appropriate for a male doctor to hand rub or vibrate a woman to orgasm to reduce cases of "hysteria". Just because it was or was not taboo back then does not matter one bit to what is considered appropriate today. We aren't telling you to treat your wife's "hyteria" with a trained professional. We are suggesting that these viewpoints are archaic and prevent both patients from getting treatment they may need and from professionals getting their jobs done.


----------



## amanthatcares

who said anything about not getting the care that is needed? do you think that a female ob/gyn is somehow inferior to a male ob/gyn?

let me ask, if your wife was about to head into the men's room by mistake, would you not immediately call out and say, "honey, that's the men's room! ladies room is over there.."
or would you let them go ahead and walk into men with their pants down in the men's room? or vice-versa for your husband/boyfriend?


----------



## skype

amanthatcares said:


> let me ask, if your wife was about to head into the men's room by mistake, would you not immediately call out and say, "honey, that's the men's room! ladies room is over there.."
> or would you let them go ahead and walk into men with their pants down in the men's room? or vice-versa for your husband/boyfriend?


Why do you think that going to the men's room is analogous to a doctor's appointment?


----------



## mablenc

amanthatcares said:


> who said anything about not getting the care that is needed? do you think that a female ob/gyn is somehow inferior to a male ob/gyn?
> 
> let me ask, if your wife was about to head into the men's room by mistake, would you not immediately call out and say, "honey, that's the men's room! ladies room is over there.."
> or would you let them go ahead and walk into men with their pants down in the men's room? or vice-versa for your husband/boyfriend?


Please, that would be an error, we are talking about a medical procedure. But following your example, should we have segregated bathrooms for homosexuals? Of course not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

amanthatcares said:


> if your wife was about to head into the men's room by mistake, would you not immediately call out and say, "honey, that's the men's room! ladies room is over there.." or would you let them go ahead and walk into men with their pants down in the men's room? or vice-versa for your husband/boyfriend?


I'd probably sit there and wait for her to figure it out, and have a big ol' laugh with her about it when she got out. What's gonna happen? Is she gonna go to Hell or something because she dared to be in a room with males who might have seen her underwear?

Oh, I know. You think the instant those men see her in their 'territory' they're gonna jump her and rape her, cos, you know, men have no self control.


----------



## turnera

mablenc said:


> Please, that would be an error, we are talking about a medical procedure. But following your example, should we have segregated bathrooms for homosexuals? Of course not.


Last week's Glee was an excellent show about that.


----------



## MissFroggie

amanthatcares said:


> *who said anything about not getting the care that is needed?* do you think that a female ob/gyn is somehow inferior to a male ob/gyn?
> 
> let me ask, if your wife was about to head into the men's room by mistake, would you not immediately call out and say, "honey, that's the men's room! ladies room is over there.."
> or would you let them go ahead and walk into men with their pants down in the men's room? or vice-versa for your husband/boyfriend?


I think you'll find the OP did...his wife CANNOT get an appointment with a female doctor, which is why she is seeing a male one and refusing to cancel it. The choice he has given her is no choice at all, he is actively preventing her from getting medical treatment...meanwhile he is receiving lapdances from strippers behind his wife's back, wanting to hire hookers for anal and all sorts. Maybe you should take a look through the rest of the thread, it will help you see what we were discussing (and it certainly wasn't the competency of male vs female doctors).


----------



## amanthatcares

ok, so the issue was that a male is all there was..

my contention is that the male should not be an ob/gyn in the first place, i dont think it is proper for men to be involved in these kinds of exams, in the first place.

however, it is what it is i guess, and as i said before if my wife's life was on the line of coarse i would not care who saved her aslong as shewas saved..

someone mention the ol' cervical cancer, well, once again, there is no reason that a woman couldnt do the pap smear in the first place, there is no 'immeadiate threat', and usually it is done in a routine office visit, not in an ER, so there is no drama there.

someone else mentioned the urologist, now actually i can respect that mo0re than the male gynecologist because the urologist actually sees both men and women patients, but the male gynecologist has choosen a field where he ONLY sees female patients....(second place, if it is ok for the doctor him/her self to be descriminate of gender, then why not the patient?)


----------



## turnera

amanthatcares said:


> the urologist actually sees both men and women patients, but the male gynecologist has choosen a field where he ONLY sees female patients....(second place, if it is ok for the doctor him/her self to be descriminate of gender, then why not the patient?)


Ah, and NOW we get to the truth.

You, being a horny male, assume that any OTHER male must make his decisions based on being a horny male, too. So any male gyno CHOSE to be a gyno just so he could be a perv and look at women's private parts.

That's what this is all about, isn't it? You think that since YOU seek out sex 24/7 any doctor is looking to get off on treating a female.

blech


----------



## amanthatcares

if we could remove everybodys words in their comments except for the adjectives, i think we could see a better picture of what we really think. what are your adjectives but your true feelings?


----------



## mablenc

turnera said:


> Last week's Glee was an excellent show about that.


I'll have to check it out 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelyblue

You know she's probably has been seeing a male gyno since she was 18.

I have a male doctor that I've been seeing since I was in HS I feel comfortable with him.


----------



## lovelyblue

So I guess male dentist are a no go to?


----------



## Created2Write

amanthatcares said:


> ok, so the issue was that a male is all there was..
> 
> my contention is that the male should not be an ob/gyn in the first place, i dont think it is proper for men to be involved in these kinds of exams, in the first place.


Many of these men have gone into this field because the women they love have experienced issues relating to women's health, and they want to help others by understanding women's physical issues. And you think this is improper? I think it's honorable.

Thank God we live in a country where people can choose the career they want.



> however, it is what it is i guess, and as i said before if my wife's life was on the line of coarse i would not care who saved her aslong as shewas saved..


But you'd be thinking of how "inappropriate" it is? 



> someone mention the ol' cervical cancer, well, once again, there is no reason that a woman couldnt do the pap smear in the first place, there is no 'immeadiate threat', and usually it is done in a routine office visit, not in an ER, so there is no drama there.


There are hundreds of reasons women have PAPs and pelvic exams, and yes, many of them are done in ER's. Every time I went in to the ER because of a bladder infection while I had my IUD, they did a PAP. Why? Vagina isn't related to a urinary infection, right? Perhaps not, but it was related to the IUD, and any time there's pain with an IUD there's cause for worry. It could be an infection which, untreated, could cause death. 

I also had two when I enlisted, one before I arrived at basic and one after. Why? I already had one, why would I need another? _Precaution_. Personally, I could care less if I see a male or female, as long as they're qualified to assess what they see. I don't think men or women are better or worse at anything they do, nor do I think it's inappropriate for one human to help another human. 



> someone else mentioned the urologist, now actually i can respect that mo0re than the male gynecologist because the urologist actually sees both men and women patients, but the male gynecologist has choosen a field where he ONLY sees female patients....(second place, if it is ok for the doctor him/her self to be descriminate of gender, then why not the patient?)


So as long as the doctor is seeing both male and female patients, there's no issue, but when a man decides that he wants to help women, suddenly he's a perv? That makes absolutely no sense. If something is inappropriate, it should be inappropriate for everyone. And it's not discrimination to be drawn to help a certain group of people. 

This is the most backwards thing I have ever heard anyone say.


----------



## 6301

I'm waiting to see some guy post here about his wife seeing a male gynecologist. The guy gets bent out of shape because the doctor is a male, then she informs him that that following week she has to go see a Proctologist whose also a male. Guy will be dying a thousand deaths.


----------



## I Notice The Details

Wow, is this really a serious question? How old are you?

Sounds like insecurity to me. The gender of a doctor doesn't matter to me or my wife.


----------



## amanthatcares

noone has given any advantages to having a male obgyn over a female, but only bashing to those of us that have issues with male doctors examining females.

if a female poster had said"male gynecologists make me uncomfortable" or "they creep me out", almost unanimously everyone returns "thats understandable" orsimilar, but if it is a husband that has the issue, then he is just an insecure jerk and control freak. how lopsided.:scratchhead:


----------



## turnera

No, just the rest of the community seeing that you are placing unrealistic claims on what is NOT a sexual encounter.


----------



## MissFroggie

amanthatcares said:


> *noone has given any advantages to having a male obgyn over a female*, but only bashing to those of us that have issues with male doctors examining females.
> 
> if a female poster had said"male gynecologists make me uncomfortable" or "they creep me out", almost unanimously everyone returns "thats understandable" orsimilar, but if it is a husband that has the issue, then he is just an insecure jerk and control freak. how lopsided.:scratchhead:


I'd say the advantage in this particular situation is pretty obvious - the only obgyn available is male.


----------



## BFGuru

amanthatcares said:


> noone has given any advantages to having a male obgyn over a female, but only bashing to those of us that have issues with male doctors examining females.
> 
> if a female poster had said"male gynecologists make me uncomfortable" or "they creep me out", almost unanimously everyone returns "thats understandable" orsimilar, but if it is a husband that has the issue, then he is just an insecure jerk and control freak. how lopsided.:scratchhead:


Really? Did you not read this thread? Plenty have given reasons why they prefer males to females. I personally have been physically hurt by females who seem to have a "suck it up, we all have to deal with it" attitude when the reality is I was in pain non stop. It was the male who finally looked at me and said "intercourse should not be painful". It wasn't that he was being a pervert. He stated it factually. HE was the first to take me seriously. HE was the one who did no ram his instruments inside my already aching female parts. HE was the one who diagnosed me. Not the countless females I had been to before. They all told me it was in my head and to have a glass of wine before sex...because that really worked...NOT. 

The fact is, if it is the male who has more expertise in the area, then by all means he is who will be taking care of me. 

Not to mention the female OBGYN I had before him almost killed me by ignoring hyperemises that should have had me hospitalized long before I sought him out. 

You go with who is most qualified within your insurance. Who treats you like a human instead of a lab rat. If the husband is that uncomfortable, he is more than welcome to attend with his wife. Women bring someone with them for morale support often during these exams. But refusing to let her go entirely, is uncalled for.

Secondly to address your lopsided comment...It is not HIS body. It is HERS. She has every right to decide who she is and is not comfortable with. He can have his preference, but he has no right to dictate where she seeks medical care, because, again...NOT HIS BODY. Just like it is not his wife's decision who he sees as a proctologist or urologist. It is not her body, and he retains the rights to decide where he seeks treatment.


----------



## Created2Write

Yup. I agree with the above post. And I maintain that insecurity is what fuels any man or woman to dictate who their spouse will or won't see in the medical field. There's nothing immoral about a male OB/GYN. Nothing.


----------



## LonelyinLove

amanthatcares said:


> noone has given any advantages to having a male obgyn over a female, but only bashing to those of us that have issues with male doctors examining females.
> 
> if a female poster had said"male gynecologists make me uncomfortable" or "they creep me out", almost unanimously everyone returns "thats understandable" orsimilar, but if it is a husband that has the issue, then he is just an insecure jerk and control freak. how lopsided.:scratchhead:


When it's his feet in the stirrups and a cold speculum is spreading his vaginal walls he can have a say.

I'm a former L&D nurse, and I believe,.....no, I know, it is more important for the woman to be comfortable with her ObGyn then her husband's immaturity and insecurity over who is providing a medical exam.

This isn't freaking Saudi Arabia.


----------



## amanthatcares

Is it ok for a woman to willfully do something against her husbands wishes when it comes to her privates?

its wrong because she agreed to be exclusive to her husband in the wedding vows, which i know means nothing to many that are here. you might as well say it is cheating when she knows that it is that offensive to her husband and does it anyway, when there are plenty of female ob/gyns around. 
no where in the wedding VOWS did she promise anything to be loyal to a male gynecologist, in fact the vows state that you will "prefer your husband to all others", and the husband agrees to "prefer the wife to all others"
when i got married, i didnt want anyone going in to my wife, and she didnt want anyone going in to me. we respect our VOWS.
if you are a Christian, i would also point out this verse:
1CO 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
1CO 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

i know those verse mean nothing to you unless you are a Christian.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Unless the husband is an ObGyn, this is apples and oranges.

In the time Jesus was on earth, there were no female physicians.

St. Luke ring a bell?

And yes, I am a Christian.

I believe the Bible has a few verses regarding how a man treats his wife too. 

Medical treatment is not sexual and it's not relational, it's clinical.

A woman's "privates" look just like every other females on the planet. It's not like she has something unique.

And this entire argument is pathetic.


----------



## turnera

amanthatcares said:


> I know those verses mean nothing to you unless you are a Christian.


I'm a Christian, but I don't let text written 2000 years ago by MEN, when women had no rights, dictate what I should believe and live by now.


----------



## sinnister

amanthatcares said:


> Is it ok for a woman to willfully do something against her husbands wishes when it comes to her privates?
> 
> its wrong because she agreed to be exclusive to her husband in the wedding vows, which i know means nothing to many that are here. you might as well say it is cheating when she knows that it is that offensive to her husband and does it anyway, when there are plenty of female ob/gyns around.
> no where in the wedding VOWS did she promise anything to be loyal to a male gynecologist, in fact the vows state that you will "prefer your husband to all others", and the husband agrees to "prefer the wife to all others"
> when i got married, i didnt want anyone going in to my wife, and she didnt want anyone going in to me. we respect our VOWS.
> if you are a Christian, i would also point out this verse:
> 1CO 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
> 1CO 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
> 
> i know those verse mean nothing to you unless you are a Christian.


I'm "Christian" but more specifically a catholic.

So these verses mean nothing to me.

Getting your wifes sweet honey pot looked over by an OBGYN is just that. If it's a male you can be sure he has no interest in the not so wonderful things he's looking for in the checkup.

Likewise for a female urologist who may be checking out your appendages.

And I really get bent out of shape when people hide behind scripture. It's clear those verses have zero to do with going to see a dr.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Oh, and PS...I believe Jesus was called the Great Physician...I guess He should have restricted Healing to men.


----------



## BFGuru

Oh good lord, Jesus healed the woman with the issue of blood. The woman who grabbed onto him because her vagina would Not. Stop. Bleeding. 

I suppose he is immoral now and is no longer a candidate for the messiah of christianity because he is a sexual pervert for daring care about a woman's private parts.


----------



## Vega

amanthatcares said:


> Is it ok for a woman to willfully do something against her husbands wishes when it comes to her privates?


Wow. You certainly DO know how to generalize, dontcha?!



> its wrong because she agreed to be exclusive to her husband in the wedding vows, *which i know means nothing to many that are here*.


So, because some people(men AND women) have a _different_ viewpoint than yours, you feel the need to insult them? 

By the way, each spouse agreed to be SEXUALLY exclusive toward each other. A woman having a pap smear is FAR from being "sexual". 



> you might as well say it is cheating when she knows that it is that offensive to her husband and does it anyway, when there are plenty of female ob/gyns around.


Now, I've seen the definition of 'cheating' s-t-t-r-r-r-e-t-c-h-e-d before, but never to THIS degree, lol! :rofl: 



> no where in the wedding VOWS did she promise anything to be loyal to a male gynecologist, in fact the vows state that you will "prefer your husband to all others", and the husband agrees to "prefer the wife to all others"


In my wedding vows I promised to "forsake all others". That means to "give up" the possibility of being sexual with someone else as long _as I'm married to my husband_. Having an OB/GYN exam is NOT being "sexual" with someone other than my husband. 



> if you are a Christian, i would also point out this verse:
> 1CO 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
> 1CO 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.


Oh brother, here we go. When you're losing an argument, pull out the "God card"! There are probably _many_ different ways these verses can be interpreted. So who says that YOUR way is the "right" way? 

The issue behind the issue is about control. The OP does not have a right to try and control his spouse. If he doesn't like what she's doing, he gets to state his feelings...WITHOUT using deceitful manipulative tactics. 

The bottom line is that _she_ has the RIGHT to choose WHO is going to perform the exam, male or female, whether she's married or not. _SHE_ is the owner of her own body, and the owner ALWAYS has the EXCLUSIVE CONTROL over what they own. That's part of the very definition of 'ownership'. 

By the way, the next time you want to quote a bible verse, please don't take it out of context to use to support your cause. It simply won't fly.

Vega


----------



## Starstarfish

> 1CO 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
> 1CO 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.


We do realize that those passages are talking about the sexual component of a marriage and not "holding out" on your spouse in regards to sex yes? We aren't talking about -literally- giving your spouse power over your body in regards to anything and everything genital related. 

I mean hell, with the line of thinking that doing anything your spouse doesn't approve of that involving genitals is cheating, maybe I better ask my husband if he approves of what tampon brand I buy. I wouldn't want to do anything with my private parts without consulting him.


----------



## Feeling-Lonely

"Also, I believe women doctors do not need another person in the exam room whereas male doctors do. I don't need a freaking audience. LOL "

Seriously? Male docs are required by law to have someone else in the room? I have never heard of that anywhere else in the world. Seems a bit ridiculous, professionals are professionals, I have had both men and women as GYN and have no preference, I would go with a doc who has more experience.


----------



## Vega

Starstarfish said:


> I mean hell, with the line of thinking that doing anything your spouse doesn't approve of that involving genitals is cheating, maybe I better ask my husband if he approves of what tampon brand I buy. I wouldn't want to do anything with my private parts without consulting him.


Perhaps your husband wouldn't "approve" of your use of tampons AT ALL, because after all...they're 'invading' HIS "territory"...

:rofl:


----------



## mablenc

amanthatcares said:


> Is it ok for a woman to willfully do something against her husbands wishes when it comes to her privates? *Yes if her health is a concern, cancer is no joke*
> 
> its wrong because she agreed to be exclusive to her husband in the wedding vows, which i know means nothing to many that are here.
> 
> *She's getting an exam not banging the guy, give me a break. I don't understand why you think it's sexual. * you might as well say it is cheating when she knows that it is that offensive to her husband and does it anyway, when there are plenty of female ob/gyns around. *If her husband really loved her, he would encourage her to do what's best for her health *
> 
> 
> no where in the wedding VOWS did she promise anything to be loyal to a male gynecologist, in fact the vows state that you will "prefer your husband to all others", and the husband agrees to "prefer the wife to all others"
> *Emotional black mail, this is a health matter. *
> 
> when i got married, i didnt want anyone going in to my wife, and she didnt want anyone going in to me. we respect our VOWS.
> if you are a Christian, i would also point out this verse:
> 1CO 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
> 1CO 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
> 
> i know those verse mean nothing to you unless you are a Christian.



*So if you get a prostrate exam, it should be by a male. What if you enjoy it? Does that make you gay? Should she worry?*


----------



## mablenc

By the way, Misty, you don't have to make up other user names. We know you have no credentials anyway.


----------



## LonelyinLove

mablenc said:


> By the way, Misty, you don't have to make up other user names. We know you have no credentials anyway.


That was Misty?

LOL.


----------



## amanthatcares

i seriously doubt that St. Luke was doing pelvic exams, and the pap smear wast invented until 1930's, so no one has been doing them that long either. Mid-wives attended to female needs.

as for the woman with an issue of blood, it says she spent all her living on physicians, and was never the better for it. Jesus is God incarnate, He can heal with a word or a thought.

As for the verse i cited, im sure that it means what it says, and it works both ways for a husband or wife. why should anyone intentionally do something to offend the other party, that is what i was getting at. if you do it on purpose, it has the same effect on a man as though you cheated on him, because he does feel cheated and humiliated by his wife because she would go over him like that, when there was no need of it.


----------



## amanthatcares

one more thought,

i know a lot of people that seem to have irrational fears, and they are fears i do not possess myself. should i upbraid someone for their fear, just because i dont understand what the issue is? whether it is panic attacks, agoraphobia, or similar, it all seems very real to them. i have personally been up late many a night to try and ease and support them. the issue over the male gynecologist is no differant. you think it should be no big deal, but to someone else it is a big deal.


----------



## Vega

amanthatcares said:


> why should anyone intentionally do something to offend the other party, that is what i was getting at.


What would be "offensive" to ONE person may not be to another. Also, people can abuse being "offended" just as easily as anything else. 

Just because someone says they "feel offended" doesn't mean that *I'm* being _offensive_. There's a lot to be said for perception. 



> If you do it on purpose, it has the same effect on a man as though you cheated on him, because he does feel cheated and humiliated by his wife because she would go over him like that, when there was no need of it


Wow. Just. Wow...

If you're going to compare EVERY ALLEGED "OFFENSE" to "cheating", I'd say that you have some serious problems with making sound judgments. You're also speaking as if you're speaking for ALL men, which *I* take offense to! I know for a FACT that ALL men do not "feel"--or THINK--as YOU seem to feel or think!

It's amazing to what extend a person such as yourself would try and _manipulate_and _twist the truth _in order to get your way.


----------



## turnera

I understand you feel that a couple should come to an agreement. I agree. Unless it's an issue that is so personal that the other doesn't have grounds to 'demand' something. This is one of those cases. 

Not to mention that if you take this attitude with your wife, it can be a MAJOR Love Buster, to the point that she may feel you've burned your bridges and she will do what makes HER happy instead of trying to please you all the time.


----------



## I Notice The Details

This thread is just ridiculous. Jealousy and insecurity are not good traits to excel in. Just my opinion. 

PS: My urologist and doctor are both female, so they both see my "equipment". My wife doesn't think twice about this for even one second.


----------



## Vega

amanthatcares said:


> one more thought,
> 
> i know a lot of people that seem to have irrational fears, and they are fears i do not possess myself. should i upbraid someone for their fear, just because i dont understand what the issue is? whether it is panic attacks, agoraphobia, or similar, it all seems very real to them. i have personally been up late many a night to try and ease and support them. the issue over the male gynecologist is no differant. you think it should be no big deal, but to someone else it is a big deal.


If I have an 'irrational fear' of flying in an airplane, I'm not going to insist that my _SPOUSE_ not fly. 

It's one thing to let your fears control YOU. It's another matter to let YOUR fears control SOMEONE ELSE who doesn't have those fears.


----------



## I Notice The Details

Vega said:


> If I have an 'irrational fear' of flying in an airplane, I'm not going to insist that my _SPOUSE_ not fly.
> 
> It's one thing to let your fears control YOU. It's another matter to let YOUR fears control SOMEONE ELSE who doesn't have those fears.


:iagree: Great analogy!


----------



## LonelyinLove

Vega said:


> What would be "offensive" to ONE person may not be to another. Also, people can abuse being "offended" just as easily as anything else.
> 
> Just because someone says they "feel offended" doesn't mean that *I'm* being _offensive_. There's a lot to be said for perception.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just. Wow...
> 
> If you're going to compare EVERY ALLEGED "OFFENSE" to "cheating", I'd say that you have some serious problems with making sound judgments. You're also speaking as if you're speaking for ALL men, which *I* take offense to! I know for a FACT that ALL men do not "feel"--or THINK--as YOU seem to feel or think!
> 
> It's amazing to what extend a person such as yourself would try and _manipulate_and _twist the truth _in order to get your way.


Laughable isn't it?

I committed adultery by getting a Pap smear....

BRAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

I guess that means the Hubs is a cheater too since he had a foley inserted by a female nurse....

Oh the humanity....


----------



## LonelyinLove

amanthatcares said:


> i seriously doubt that St. Luke was doing pelvic exams, and the pap smear wast invented until 1930's, so no one has been doing them that long either. Mid-wives attended to female needs.
> 
> as for the woman with an issue of blood, it says she spent all her living on physicians, and was never the better for it. Jesus is God incarnate, He can heal with a word or a thought.
> 
> As for the verse i cited, im sure that it means what it says, and it works both ways for a husband or wife. why should anyone intentionally do something to offend the other party, that is what i was getting at. if you do it on purpose, it has the same effect on a man as though you cheated on him, because he does feel cheated and humiliated by his wife because she would go over him like that, when there was no need of it.


You don't know what Luke was doing. 

The only reason a mature, secure man would feel cheated on if his wife received a pelvic exam from a male doctor is his own insecurity and/or desire to dominate his wife.

If he cares about her, he will honor HER wishes to be comfortable with her medical professionals. 

That, or he's a controlling a$$.


----------



## SunnyT

OP is just a hypocrite blow-hard anyway. 

To gripe about someone seeing his wife's hooha when he goes out of his way to see other women's hoohas.... the whole argument is moot.


----------



## Starstarfish

Just to comment, which I realize is kind of a side-bar and a threadjack, but - America is unique that 23 states don't have "nurse midwife" credential recognition programs. In short, the medical profession and insurance companies are a part of the whole "why aren't female practitioners recognized as qualified as male practitioners in regards to female healthcare." 

Above and beyond the question of personal choice and patient preference, there's a whole other side to what medical professionals are available to treat what depending on where you live. Indeed, sometimes someone's primary concern isn't "who would I prefer" but "who can I afford because my insurance will only allow me to see choice X, Y, or Z." Healthcare, especially in the US, is a dark, twisted overlap of personal and financial concerns. Let's not pretend otherwise. 

And if you have to add on, we only have one car so my availability to make appointments is limited, but my husband is offended by the reality that limits my choices, it becomes a whole different ballgame.


----------



## mablenc

amanthatcares said:


> one more thought,
> 
> i know a lot of people that seem to have irrational fears, and they are fears i do not possess myself. should i upbraid someone for their fear, just because i dont understand what the issue is? whether it is panic attacks, agoraphobia, or similar, it all seems very real to them. i have personally been up late many a night to try and ease and support them. the issue over the male gynecologist is no differant. you think it should be no big deal, but to someone else it is a big deal.


Therapy helps with irrational fears.


----------



## CharlieParker

I Notice The Details said:


> This thread is just ridiculous. Jealousy and insecurity are not good traits to excel in. Just my opinion.
> 
> PS: My urologist and doctor are both female, so they both see my "equipment". My wife doesn't think twice about this for even one second.


A. This thread is now one month old, happy birthday!!!

B. My wife and I see the same GP who is pretty smokin' hot (and actually dresses inappropriately IMO) but wife has no trouble with me dropping trow for her.


----------



## southern wife

Dropping trow :lol:


----------



## Cletus

amanthatcares said:


> Is it ok for a woman to willfully do something against her husbands wishes when it comes to her privates?


Yes.

Next question.


----------



## sinnister

amanthatcares said:


> one more thought,
> 
> i know a lot of people that seem to have irrational fears, and they are fears i do not possess myself. should i upbraid someone for their fear, just because i dont understand what the issue is? whether it is panic attacks, agoraphobia, or similar, it all seems very real to them. i have personally been up late many a night to try and ease and support them. the issue over the male gynecologist is no differant. you think it should be no big deal, but to someone else it is a big deal.


Agreed. Nobody should fault somebody for having a genuine fear of something. 

But I'm afraid that's not the issue. The issue here is control. That's a whole other ball of wax.


----------



## MissFroggie

amanthatcares said:


> Is it ok for a woman to willfully do something against her husbands wishes when it comes to her privates? *You are accepting they are her privates then? And in answer to your question - yes. My question - have you even read the whole thread?*
> 
> its wrong because she agreed to be exclusive to her husband in the wedding vows, which i know means nothing to many that are here. you might as well say it is cheating when she knows that it is that offensive to her husband and does it anyway, when there are plenty of female ob/gyns around. *She can only get an appointment with a man not a woman, so there are NOT plenty of ob/gyns around in this case. It is also not cheating and if it was there would be plenty of us saying it here, to say otherwise shows you have not read much on TAM*
> 
> no where in the wedding VOWS did she promise anything to be loyal to a male gynecologist, in fact the vows state that you will "prefer your husband to all others", and the husband agrees to "prefer the wife to all others"*Can we also look at his vows to her then? I doubt he made vows to frequent strip clubs and get lap dances or hire hookers for anal or any of the other things he has come out with?*
> 
> when i got married, i didnt want anyone going in to my wife, and she didnt want anyone going in to me. we respect our VOWS.
> if you are a Christian, i would also point out this verse:
> 1CO 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
> 1CO 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.*I think it is clear 'Christian values' mean very little to the OP and quoting Bible verses out of context and trying to make this into a religious debate is nonsense.*
> 
> i know those verse mean nothing to you unless you are a Christian.*Correct - your quotes are useless as the OP is clearly not a religious man.*





Vega said:


> Perhaps your husband wouldn't "approve" of your use of tampons AT ALL, because after all...they're 'invading' HIS "territory"...
> 
> :rofl: *I'm shocked you'd even consider using tampons at all, you might find them sexually stimulating and start neglecting your husband's needs in the hope of a period when you'd be able to enjoy your tampon experiences. Nothing should ever be put there and I'm going to tell your husband. :rofl: *Tampons, the newest sex crazy* Aaaarrrrgggghhhh :rofl:*





amanthatcares said:


> one more thought,
> 
> i know a lot of people that seem to have irrational fears, and they are fears i do not possess myself. should i upbraid someone for their fear, just because i dont understand what the issue is? whether it is panic attacks, agoraphobia, or similar, it all seems very real to them. i have personally been up late many a night to try and ease and support them. the issue over the male gynecologist is no differant. you think it should be no big deal, but to someone else it is a big deal.*They are called irrational fears because they are exactly that - irrational. His fear is that his wife is going to run off with the dr or suddenly be over-stimulated and be unable to control herself from tearing his clothes off and seducing him there and then...while having a smear test...seriously??? Well, you are right about one thing - it IS irrational!*


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I know two doctors, neither gynecologists, but they both view the body the way a mechanic views a car.

And I've yet to meet a woman who likes going to gyno... whether male or female. lol

OP... would you enjoy a female doc you feel no attraction toward, putting you up in stirrups so she can stick devices and swabs up your butt? Not something to be jealous about.


----------



## Created2Write

amanthatcares said:


> Is it ok for a woman to willfully do something against her husbands wishes when it comes to her privates?
> 
> its wrong because she agreed to be exclusive to her husband in the wedding vows, which i know means nothing to many that are here. you might as well say it is cheating when she knows that it is that offensive to her husband and does it anyway, when there are plenty of female ob/gyns around.
> no where in the wedding VOWS did she promise anything to be loyal to a male gynecologist, in fact the vows state that you will "prefer your husband to all others", and the husband agrees to "prefer the wife to all others"
> when i got married, i didnt want anyone going in to my wife, and she didnt want anyone going in to me. we respect our VOWS.
> if you are a Christian, i would also point out this verse:
> 1CO 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
> 1CO 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
> 
> i know those verse mean nothing to you unless you are a Christian.


Oh please. So now it's cheating for a woman to see a male gynocologist? 

I _am_ a Christian and have never, once, heard anyone use those verses to apply to medical situations. Ever. 

You're grasping at straws at this point, dude.

Or chick.


----------



## I Notice The Details

CharlieParker said:


> A. This thread is now one month old, happy birthday!!!
> 
> B. My wife and I see the same GP who is pretty smokin' hot (and actually dresses inappropriately IMO) but wife has no trouble with me dropping trow for her.


:rofl:....but Charlie, what if that female GP saw you with a "pipe". Would your wife be jealous then? Isn't she over protective about your erections? :rofl::rofl:


----------



## MissFroggie

I Notice The Details said:


> :rofl:....but Charlie, what if that female GP saw you with a "pipe". Would your wife be jealous then? Isn't she over protective about your erections? :rofl::rofl:


Well that changes things completely. If the OP's wife gets an erection during the examination he has serious reason to be concerned. It would be no laughing matter.


----------



## Abc123wife

LonelyinLove said:


> Laughable isn't it?
> 
> I committed adultery by getting a Pap smear....
> 
> BRAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I guess that means the Hubs is a cheater too since he had a foley inserted by a female nurse....
> 
> Oh the humanity....


I guess this makes me a serial cheater since I had far more than just Pap smears with male doctors! And my transgressions went on for years. I had 4 children delivered by male ob docs who specialized in high risk pregnancies. That was after 3 miscarriages. I went to the best high risk obs I could find. Their gender was not my concern, it was their experience and skills with high risk pregnancies that both my husband and I cared the most about!


----------



## amanthatcares

your wrong about it being a 'control' issue

my wife does many other things that i do not seek to control.

the issue is does the wife repsect her husband, the way she desires her husband to respect her?

many of your attitudes are appalling. many of you said, "yes. it is ok for a woman to deliberately do something she know violates her husbands will, therby doing violence to the extent the husband can trust his wife. if she is capable of that kind of disrespect, she is capable of taking it to the next level.

likewise i agree the op is probably not religious, many of you claim to be however, so it is fine to use verses to support what you believe, either way.

give me verses that support what you believe, give me verses that say it is fine for:
1. a woman to be undressed in front of another man
or
2. a woman to violate the respect of her husband.

give me any other source besides your own opinion that it is fine to let a male do these exams, and that no harm could possibly come from it. prove to me that the field of ob/gyn has no higher incident of foul play (regarding men)than other professions. prove it with data, statistics, whatever you can find, and then maybe i will conceed your points.


----------



## lenzi

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I know two doctors, neither gynecologists, but they both view the body the way a mechanic views a car.


Maybe _your_ body.

They're doctors, but first, they're men. 

Enough said.


----------



## AnnieAsh

Yes because there is nothing sexier than taking a swab and scraping a woman's cervix or ooh watching her push a baby out. 

Hiring prostitutes to have anal sex or getting lap dances : a-ok! A woman using a male gyn for her reproductive health: bad! Immoral! Evil!


----------



## WyshIknew

Well I have some sympathy for the OP.

I've seen the films and it is very scary. 

First the gynaecologist undresses the woman and gradually his touches become more overt and sexual while he examines her.

The next thing she is overcome with passion and he has his wicked way with her.

I think it was a documentary or something.


----------



## I Notice The Details

WyshIknew said:


> The next thing she is overcome with passion and he has his wicked way with her.
> 
> I think it was a documentary or something.


Wysh....isn't that standard procedure? :rofl:

I can't believe someone is actually upset about this enough to post this thread. It is 2013! Come on people. :scratchhead:


----------



## ginger-snap

*Re: Re: Wife is going to see a male gynecologist...I'm upset..Advice please*



amanthatcares said:


> give me any other source besides your own opinion that it is fine to let a male do these exams


How about medical schools around the world? Or the medical licensing boards of nearly every country in the world that allow men to be ob/gyns? Or hospitals that hire them (never heard about there being higher malpractice insurance premiums for male ob/gyns). Or insurance companies that pay them? Or the lack of any scientific studies about the appropriateness of a male ob/gyn?

Or do you only recognize whatever specific translation of the Christian bible you recognize as "correct" as a "source" of what is or isn't proper for all activities in life? Are there verses about posting on internet forums?


----------



## sinnister

amanthatcares said:


> your wrong about it being a 'control' issue
> 
> my wife does many other things that i do not seek to control.
> 
> the issue is does the wife repsect her husband, the way she desires her husband to respect her?
> 
> many of your attitudes are appalling. many of you said, "yes. it is ok for a woman to deliberately do something she know violates her husbands will, therby doing violence to the extent the husband can trust his wife. if she is capable of that kind of disrespect, she is capable of taking it to the next level.
> 
> likewise i agree the op is probably not religious, many of you claim to be however, so it is fine to use verses to support what you believe, either way.
> 
> give me verses that support what you believe, give me verses that say it is fine for:
> 1. a woman to be undressed in front of another man
> or
> 2. a woman to violate the respect of her husband.
> 
> give me any other source besides your own opinion that it is fine to let a male do these exams, and that no harm could possibly come from it. prove to me that the field of ob/gyn has no higher incident of foul play (regarding men)than other professions. prove it with data, statistics, whatever you can find, and then maybe i will conceed your points.


God had more important instructions for us than to fill our heads with trivial things about who should and shouldn't see people naked.


----------



## maryshome8

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


As a nurse I think you are being 190% unreasonable. You are putting a sexual activity and a medical exam in the same category. He is a doctor, not a date. 

Put your jealousy aside or you can set a timer on your marriage. If you have an objection to a choice your wife makes...have a good reason. This one is controlling and frankly, childish.


----------



## maryshome8

Jack I said:


> Exactly.Nobody looks at or touches my wife down there but me.I don't care if he's a doctor or not.And those of you saying doctors don't get aroused,how how would you know?I've heard stories of gynecologists getting erections.



They are a load of crap. I work for a large group of them, mostly men, I go in all day and watch the exams. I see everything. I can assure you, there is nothing sexual about it.

We even have Muslim patients. As long as their husbands are present, even their husbands are ok with the exams. You cannot find a more conservative female-ownership culture than that.

What is more important to you? Her catering to an unreasonable hangup or your wife getting seen by the most highly qualified medical professional of her choosing that could catch something important? 

If you love your wife, you'll select the later.


----------



## LonelyinLove

amanthatcares said:


> your wrong about it being a 'control' issue
> 
> my wife does many other things that i do not seek to control.
> 
> the issue is does the wife repsect her husband, the way she desires her husband to respect her?
> 
> many of your attitudes are appalling. many of you said, "yes. it is ok for a woman to deliberately do something she know violates her husbands will, therby doing violence to the extent the husband can trust his wife. if she is capable of that kind of disrespect, she is capable of taking it to the next level.
> 
> likewise i agree the op is probably not religious, many of you claim to be however, so it is fine to use verses to support what you believe, either way.
> 
> give me verses that support what you believe, give me verses that say it is fine for:
> 1. a woman to be undressed in front of another man
> or
> 2. a woman to violate the respect of her husband.
> 
> give me any other source besides your own opinion that it is fine to let a male do these exams, and that no harm could possibly come from it. prove to me that the field of ob/gyn has no higher incident of foul play (regarding men)than other professions. prove it with data, statistics, whatever you can find, and then maybe i will conceed your points.


I don't give a rip if you concede to my points or not, and I suspect any scriptures presented you would twist the context anyway.

BTW, do you allow your wife to wear slacks or is she always skirted, with no makeup and her hair in a bun?


----------



## MissFroggie

amanthatcares said:


> your wrong about it being a 'control' issue
> 
> my wife does many other things that i do not seek to control.
> 
> the issue is does the wife repsect her husband, the way she desires her husband to respect her?
> 
> many of your attitudes are appalling. many of you said, "yes. it is ok for a woman to deliberately do something she know violates her husbands will, therby doing violence to the extent the husband can trust his wife. if she is capable of that kind of disrespect, she is capable of taking it to the next level.
> 
> likewise i agree the op is probably not religious, many of you claim to be however, so it is fine to use verses to support what you believe, either way.
> 
> give me verses that support what you believe, give me verses that say it is fine for:
> 1. a woman to be undressed in front of another man
> or
> 2. a woman to violate the respect of her husband.
> 
> give me any other source besides your own opinion that it is fine to let a male do these exams, and that no harm could possibly come from it. prove to me that the field of ob/gyn has no higher incident of foul play (regarding men)than other professions. prove it with data, statistics, whatever you can find, and then maybe i will conceed your points.


Thank you for your post - you seem to be on a 'roll' with a capital 'T'  The OP said his wife could not get an appointment with a female. It is nice to see that you'd rather she dies of cancer than gets help - it puts your choice of name into perspective - is your surname "AboutHimself"? just checking, cos I think I've met you before, or just some like you perhaps? Absolutely agree with you though, let the wife die and get a new one, I think the Bible says you might be allowed to take a new wife if yours is dead, so good option when you are not happy? Maybe I'm wrong on that Biblically speaking, but I'm sure you could find suitable quotes to back this up if you look hard enough...ha ha look hard enough, no pun intended 



WyshIknew said:


> Well I have some sympathy for the OP.
> 
> I've seen the films and it is very scary.
> 
> First the gynaecologist undresses the woman and gradually his touches become more overt and sexual while he examines her.
> 
> The next thing she is overcome with passion and he has his wicked way with her.
> 
> I think it was a documentary or something.


I think I might have been in that film - yes, it was a documentary 



LonelyinLove said:


> I don't give a rip if you concede to my points or not, and I suspect any scriptures presented you would twist the context anyway.
> 
> BTW, do you allow your wife to wear slacks or is she always skirted, with no makeup and her hair in a bun?


Of course he doesn't - wow, guys can get erections any time and any where, so she is kept in her cage at home ready for his use...rightly so. Fancy being female...damn women can't be trusted at all. The biggest problem with this is anyone who might have seen her BEFORE marriage - what if they think of her at all??? I mean, seriously, they might get a bit of an erection just at the thought. Maybe we should lock up our daughters from an early age and keep them in darkness. Solution perhaps??? 

I really want to know if penises have minds of their own and we are going to really deal with this issue perhaps we should just lop them off at birth? Sorry, going to have to stop posting....someone might be getting a slight penile reaction and I might have to be stoned to death....cos that's in the Bible too.....aaarrrrrgggghhhh *running for cover*


----------



## WyshIknew

:lol:


2nd best post of the day.


----------



## Unique Username

What if, after you've made such a big stink that she FINALLY sees a Female OB/GYN and she is lesbian and gets a lady boner?


----------



## pailrider

When we get married learn trust in the relationship, if the husband or wife is hurt by the opposite gender carrying out intimate exams, the partners should respect the other view,live together in harmony with longevity!


----------



## Maneo

pailrider said:


> When we get married learn trust in the relationship, if the husband or wife is hurt by the opposite gender carrying out intimate exams, the partners should respect the other view,live together in harmony with longevity!


wait, where is the trust of husband in his wife that her being examined by a male doctor has no sexual meaning? where is the ability of the doubting husband to work with his wife to find a compromise like accompanying his wife into the exam. Is trust only a one way street?

Is the only way to live together "in harmony" is for the wife to always concede to the wishes of the husband? Is respect only a one way street? What about the husband showing respect for his wife to see the doctor of her choice and trust her in that decision?


----------



## I Notice The Details

Unique Username said:


> What if, after you've made such a big stink that she FINALLY sees a Female OB/GYN and she is lesbian and gets a lady boner?


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Cletus

amanthatcares said:


> your wrong about it being a 'control' issue


Says you.



> give me any other source besides your own opinion that it is fine to let a male do these exams, and that no harm could possibly come from it. prove to me that the field of ob/gyn has no higher incident of foul play (regarding men)than other professions. prove it with data, statistics, whatever you can find, and then maybe i will conceed your points.


He with the thesis has to provide the supporting data. You're of the opinion that male OB/GYNs are sexually offending their patients at higher rates than the women.

You do the homework. You find the data that supports your claim that shows, adjusted for representation within the community, men are using their position to assault women in stirrups. Leave out anecdotal stories and find us peer reviewed journal articles or actual aggregated police reports.

I actually wouldn't be surprised to find such a study exists, even given the low rate of offense in a highly regulated industry. Personally, I still wouldn't be of the opinion that I would be justified in telling my wife to not go to a male doctor, but at least you'd be on a solid platform for your argument.


----------



## Created2Write

LonelyinLove said:


> I don't give a rip if you concede to my points or not, and I suspect any scriptures presented you would twist the context anyway.
> 
> BTW, do you allow your wife to wear slacks or is she always skirted, with no makeup and her hair in a bun?


Yup. 

And does he give his wife kisses when she's on her period? Because that's an abomination, according to the Bible.


----------



## Created2Write

Also, "amanthatcares", since you're the one maintaining that it is always immoral for a man, who has gone through years and years of college and training to get where he's at, to examine a woman to ensure that she's healthy and has no signs of cancer, it is up to you to show us where the Bible says that male physicians can't examine women. 

Oh, and by the way, taking verses that apply to marriage and sex out of context doesn't count.


----------



## sinnister

And you can't use the arousal answer as a reason.

I get steel wood eating a great peice of steak. Doesn't mean I'm going to start bangin it...or maybe......


----------



## Unique Username

I don't think there were any physicians back in the time the bible was written

and the first physicians - and OB/GYNs were men, period

remember when women weren't even allowed to go to College


----------



## pailrider

Maneo said:


> wait, where is the trust of husband in his wife that her being examined by a male doctor has no sexual meaning? where is the ability of the doubting husband to work with his wife to find a compromise like accompanying his wife into the exam. Is trust only a one way street?
> 
> Is the only way to live together "in harmony" is for the wife to always concede to the wishes of the husband? Is respect only a one way street? What about the husband showing respect for his wife to see the doctor of her choice and trust her in that decision?


Isn't that what I said.? live in mutual harmony.. BTW how many male doctors are in court for sexual abuse of women, visa versa.

Every day I receive a court case, perhaps you should carry out your oun research into this subject. I'm afraid its a one way street with men being the offender. Here is today's link.
Doctor lied about having sex with three patients, inquiry hears - Independent.ie


----------



## Jack I

WyshIknew said:


> Well I have some sympathy for the OP.
> 
> I've seen the films and it is very scary.
> 
> First the gynaecologist undresses the woman and gradually his touches become more overt and sexual while he examines her.
> 
> The next thing she is overcome with passion and he has his wicked way with her.
> 
> I think it was a documentary or something.


My concern was not her being overcome with passion.My concern was with the doctor,not my wife.


----------



## mablenc

Jack I said:


> My concern was not her being overcome with passion.My concern was with the doctor,not my wife.


Even better, if your wife loves you, and feels respected she will not stray from you. No matter how many men persue her, she will remain loyal to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Jack I said:


> My concern was not her being overcome with passion.My concern was with the doctor,not my wife.


And?

So?

What do you envision happening? Do you think he's going to get a step stool and jump up on the table and screw her?

Or are you afraid he's going to take a look at her vagina and melt? These doctors see you once a year, if that often. Twenty patients a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year...you think he'll even remember her FACE, let alone her vagina?

I respect your fears, but PLEASE listen to us - they are 99.9999% unfounded.


----------



## Created2Write

Jack I said:


> My concern was not her being overcome with passion.My concern was with the doctor,not my wife.


What about the doctor? What was your concern, exactly?


----------



## Cletus

Jack I said:


> My concern was not her being overcome with passion.My concern was with the doctor,not my wife.


I'm sure your wife has a gorgeous vagina. Her cervix is probably without equal in the western hemisphere. No doubt she has labia that could launch a thousand ships.

'Taint (snicker) nothin' the doc hasn't seen a few tens of thousands of times before, and resisted with the will of a greek demigod.


----------



## ladybird

I have always had a male ob gyn. Male Drs have delivered all of my babies. 

Really what is the big deal?


----------



## Jack I

Created2Write said:


> What about the doctor? What was your concern, exactly?


I didn't like the idea of another man seeing my wife's vagina.I didn't know a lot about gynecologists,and the idea of that just made me uneasy.


----------



## Maneo

Some people have a concern about anyone seeing their body or their spouse's body. Some, like Jack apparently, confine that concern to men seeing their wife's body in any context. 

I think it is safe to say the majority of people may acknowledge someone may have those concerns but would say such concerns are irrational and unfounded when it comes to medical professionals. 

People may have any number of fears and concerns that have little basis in fact but there you go.

I think the crux of this thread had to do with the fact that Jack, the OP, not only has this distrust of any male medical professional seeing his wife, and strongly, emphatically, wants her to cease her desire to see a male OB-GYN. And this turns the issue into one of relationships and whose will prevails. And then we go down the trail of trust and control and on and on.

I don't share the view that doctors or any other medical professional gets some sexual pleasure seeing a naked body but I understand and acknowledge some people like Jack may harbor those feelings. When he wants to impose his will on the actions of others, even and perhaps particularly his wife, I take issue. 

Some have rallied to Jack's defense arguing that it is a show of disrespect on his wife's part not to accede to his demands. I would counter it is a show of disrespect on Jack's part to insist his adult wife, who prefers to see the doctor of her choice, bow to his will.

No doubt there are couples where both share this aversion of the opposite gender seeing their or their spouse's naked bodies. Let them happily be ostriches with their heads in the sand.

There may be couples where one spouse has this aversion to opposite gender docs and the other spouse shrugs and, though not agreeing, goes along with the antiquated preference to see only same gender docs rather than stand his or her ground.

Then we have the spouse like Jack's wife, who feels it is her decision whom she sees for her medical needs. Jack's initial query asked for advice. The advice, dear Jack, is set aside your irrational, childish fears, and respect your wife as a thinking adult and take her out to dinner after her appointment with her male doctor so she can tell you how healthy she is and how wise you are.


----------



## Created2Write

Jack I said:


> I didn't like the idea of another man seeing my wife's vagina.I didn't know a lot about gynecologists,and the idea of that just made me uneasy.


Context is everything though, Jack. I would understand your concern if the context was applicable but, and I hope you really listen when I say this, _it isn't._ Gynecologists are professional people. They go through years and years and years of school and training to better understand the issues women face, only to spend the rest of their careers doing an entirely unglamorous, but entirely necessary, job. Ensuring that your wife is healthy requires a professional to examine her vagina and cervix. 

You don't like the idea of a man looking at your wife's vagina. Okay. Fair enough. But there's a difference between not liking something, and getting hung up on it. You're hung up on something you shouldn't be. Even if your wife saw a female gynecologist, what if that woman were a lesbian? What if your wife seeing a male gynecologist meant the difference between finding cancer in time to treat it and not? What if she were to develop a major issue and the specialist they sent her to was a male? Or a lesbian? 

Do you see what I'm saying? 

Moreover, your response to your wife was entirely out of line. You are potentially threatening her female health; you're acting in the opposite of love and concern. 

Your wife's vagina is, first and foremost, _hers_. If you're concerned about her seeing a male doctor, then tell her. But understand that who she sees for her own physical health is _her_ choice. Trying to force her to do what you want is abusive behavior, whether you intend it to be or not. I know you want her to respect your feelings and concerns, but respect isn't given blindly...it's earned. If you want her to take your concerns seriously, you need to take hers seriously.


----------



## RandomDude

What if the Gyno dude looked like this? lol


----------



## pailrider

I Notice The Details said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl:


Is that possible a female with bonner, Q is a female doctor able to pump testoserone in blood, I think not. Hence men in court daily for abuse! Do some research


----------



## pailrider

RandomDude said:


> What if the Gyno dude looked like this? lol


Checking for a response to penetration I assume, what do you think.


----------



## pailrider

Created2Write said:


> Context is everything though, Jack. I would understand your concern if the context was applicable but, and I hope you really listen when I say this, _it isn't._ Gynecologists are professional people. They go through years and years and years of school and training to better understand the issues women face, only to spend the rest of their careers doing an entirely unglamorous, but entirely necessary, job. Ensuring that your wife is healthy requires a professional to examine her vagina and cervix.
> 
> You don't like the idea of a man looking at your wife's vagina. Okay. Fair enough. But there's a difference between not liking something, and getting hung up on it. You're hung up on something you shouldn't be. Even if your wife saw a female gynecologist, what if that woman were a lesbian? What if your wife seeing a male gynecologist meant the difference between finding cancer in time to treat it and not? What if she were to develop a major issue and the specialist they sent her to was a male? Or a lesbian?
> 
> Do you see what I'm saying?
> 
> Moreover, your response to your wife was entirely out of line. You are potentially threatening her female health; you're acting in the opposite of love and concern.
> 
> Your wife's vagina is, first and foremost, _hers_. If you're concerned about her seeing a male doctor, then tell her. But understand that who she sees for her own physical health is _her_ choice. Trying to force her to do what you want is abusive behavior, whether you intend it to be or not. I know you want her to respect your feelings and concerns, but respect isn't given blindly...it's earned. If you want her to take your concerns seriously, you need to take hers seriously.


Simple answer - ask to see a feamle sorted imo.


----------



## MissFroggie




----------



## GTdad

I don't know if this has come up yet, but as I get older and have to get ... um ... prostate exams from time to time, a female doc with small hands sounds better and better. My guy brings new meaning to "ham-fisted".


----------



## treyvion

GTdad said:


> I don't know if this has come up yet, but as I get older and have to get ... um ... prostate exams from time to time, a female doc with small hands sounds better and better. My guy brings new meaning to "ham-fisted".


Prostate exam is just a finger? Or more?


----------



## Cletus

treyvion said:


> Prostate exam is just a finger? Or more?


Depends on your copay.


----------



## treyvion

Cletus said:


> Depends on your copay.


Well I want as little as possible, lol.


----------



## BradWesley

pailrider said:


> Is that possible a female with bonner, Q is a female doctor able to pump testoserone in blood, I think not. Hence men in court daily for abuse! Do some research


You really need to turn on your sarcasm detection meter


----------



## Created2Write

pailrider said:


> Simple answer - ask to see a feamle sorted imo.


You can ask to see a female until you're blue in the face. If none are available, there simply aren't any other options. 

I wanted a female primary physician, but there were only men available to take on new patients. So, I see a man as my primary physician. 

I asked for a female gynecologist, but there were only men available to see me. And I wasn't about to wait months and months and months, prolonging an experience I just want to get over with as soon as possible, just to see a woman who has had the exact same schooling and training as the male.


----------



## pailrider

BradWesley said:


> You really need to turn on your sarcasm detection meter


Friend sarcasm' is reality in many cases. Perhaps this link will help highlight it.
Právo: Convicted doctor Barták masterminding murders from prison | Prague Monitor


----------



## pailrider

Created2Write said:


> You can ask to see a female until you're blue in the face. If none are available, there simply aren't any other options.
> 
> I wanted a female primary physician, but there were only men available to take on new patients. So, I see a man as my primary physician.
> 
> I asked for a female gynecologist, but there were only men available to see me. And I wasn't about to wait months and months and months, prolonging an experience I just want to get over with as soon as possible, just to see a woman who has had the exact same schooling and training as the male.


Obviously your decision to see a man for that reason, ever wondered why so many men take up that type of work for money. 

Regarding training do you really believe training can stop a man from being a man with healthy sexual desires. As a man I can say no' impossible, medical training cant turn off testosterone and sex drive, if it did the world would stop,sounds like you have
no gender choice, which is strange when more women are going into gynecology, right now. Personally as a man hate my wife seeing a man for intimate exams, especially after extensive research into the medical profession - good luck its your body, only you and your partner to keep happy.


----------



## mablenc

pailrider said:


> Obviously your decision to see a man for that reason, ever wondered why so many men take up that type of work for money.
> 
> *Regarding training do you really believe training can stop a man from being a man with healthy sexual desires.* As a man I can say no' impossible, medical training cant turn off testosterone and sex drive, if it did the world would stop,sounds like you have
> no gender choice, which is strange when more women are going into gynecology, right now. Personally as a man hate my wife seeing a man for intimate exams, e*specially after extensive research into the medical profession* - good luck its your body, only you and your partner to keep happy.


Do you get horny with every female you see? Do only fat people work as chefs? 

Misty is this you under another user?


----------



## MissFroggie

pailrider said:


> Obviously your decision to see a man for that reason, *ever wondered why so many men take up that type of work for money. *


I think you answered your own question. The answer is *FOR MONEY.*




pailrider said:


> *Regarding training do you really believe training can stop a man from being a man with healthy sexual desires.* As a man I can say no' impossible, medical training cant turn off testosterone and sex drive, if it did the world would stop,sounds like you have
> no gender choice, which is strange when more women are going into gynecology, right now. Personally as a man hate my wife seeing a man for intimate exams, especially after extensive research into the medical profession - good luck its your body, only you and your partner to keep happy.


I actually DO think that training can do that - looking at vaginas all day long and seeing all that goes wrong down there, seeing babies born and complications...I think it could do a lot of damage to a man's sexual appetite.


----------



## Maneo

All those who advocate for same gender doctors, particularly for females, get suddenly quiet when the issue of being examined by same gender docs who are lesbian or homosexual is raised. If the primary assumption of these "any viewing of genitalia is sexual" crowd is valid then surely there must be concern that examination of a woman by a lesbian OB-GYN carries the same libidinous risks. So should we be asking the sexual preference of our health care providers?

The core assumption here seems to be that any viewing of the genital area by someone of the opposite gender (setting aside the homosexual argument mentioned above) is automatically a sexually charged situation. Further, that the men who become OB-GYNs have a compelling desire to get into that line of work to get paid for looking at female privates and getting aroused. What clever boys!

If you reject that core assumption, which I would posit most rational, knowledgable, 21st century adults do reject, then this whole objection to the little lady seeing a male doctor falls apart. But no amount of logical reasoning, documentary evidence, and legal and professional codes of conduct seem to sway this dedicated group who steadfastly hold to the premise that any look at the female coochie (and heaven forbid! touching it!) is an instant erection maker for the guys and an automatic violation of the that female. Then it is time to fold the tents and let them have their corner of a fantasy world shared with those who still believe the earth is flat, the moon landings were all faked, there should be no intermixing of the races, and Elvis still lives.

However, I do draw the line when these same deluded believers try to impose their irrational beliefs on others by trying to control which doctor wives, daughters, sisters and other women can see for their medical care based solely on the gender of that doctor. If I could I would drive that poor besieged wife of the paranoid "no other man is going to see my wife's vagina" husband to the doc of her choice, male or female, and uphold her right to choose the doctor of her choice to tend to her medical needs.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?



*I have had both male and female does not matter *.


----------



## amanthatcares

the thinking on here is a result of the looseness we inherited from the 60's-70's

i think it does matter if the wife is unwilling to conceed on a mattter with a simple solution.

we keep hearing that only a male is available. that is interesting, because it looks like only 30% of obgyn is male. also, i maintain that the male should not be ob/gyn in the first place. its not that hard to find a female, really.

there may be gay/lesbian doctors, but again that is only 1% of population or less, and most docs my wife has seen has been married, so thats out too.

maybe they dont think anything other than professional thoughts, i highly doubt it, but maybe some of the older ones i suppose it is possible. this field does have the highest rate of incidents reported for males, but almost nill for female.

looks like we wont agree, but that is ok.


----------



## Oldfaithful

I'm new and I don't have time to read the whole thing but seems like this could be said about lots of professions. In all professions there will be lots more men reported for "incidents".


----------



## RandomDude

> this field does have the highest rate of incidents reported for males, but almost nill for female.


And many of those could be pulling the 'rape card'


----------



## BFGuru

amanthatcares said:


> the thinking on here is a result of the looseness we inherited from the 60's-70's
> 
> i think it does matter if the wife is unwilling to conceed on a mattter with a simple solution.
> 
> we keep hearing that only a male is available. that is interesting, because it looks like only 30% of obgyn is male. also, i maintain that the male should not be ob/gyn in the first place. its not that hard to find a female, really.
> 
> there may be gay/lesbian doctors, but again that is only 1% of population or less, and most docs my wife has seen has been married, so thats out too.
> 
> maybe they dont think anything other than professional thoughts, i highly doubt it, but maybe some of the older ones i suppose it is possible. this field does have the highest rate of incidents reported for males, but almost nill for female.
> 
> looks like we wont agree, but that is ok.


Actually no it's not o.k. and i find myself getting angry at every comment you make regarding sexual immorality of a professional. You refuse to acknowledge ANY professional on this site who's job demands they work with patients of the opposite gender and their genitals. I find it offensive that anyone would dare suggest I am getting my jollies working with my patients. Quite frankly, you've seen one, you've seen them all. Yours are no more impressive than another's. Yes, I bathe the. Yes I catheterize them and there are days they must be made to stool mechanically. How dare you suggest or "doubt" to quote you that anything we professionals do is anything but appropriate. If I don't do my job, my patients can die. Just like if a gynecologist doesn't do their job their patients can die.

Your statistics are bogus. A simple google search brings up approximately 30% of men have engaged in homosexual sex, or identifies with finding attraction in the same gender, and 13% of females. This statistic would match any profession OBGYN included. According to the American Physicians of Obstetrics and Gynecology 9% of medical school graduates that choose OBGYN are female. NINE. So... do some real research. Recognize that yes, indeed, there are definitely times ONLY a male is available. Stop pulling statistics out of thin air. It cheapens a real debate when you have to lie to prove your point. 

And for the love of all that is holy stop insulting those of us who work in healthcare insinuating we are sexual deviants for caring about the health of ALL the organs of our patients. Genitourinary organs included.


----------



## Cletus

amanthatcares said:


> looks like we wont agree, but that is ok.


True, dat. Just like I'll never agree that the world is flat, the black man is inferior, or quantum mechanics and relativity are copacetic at the Planck distance.

Some ideas get relegated to the dust bin of history for good reason.


----------



## pailrider

mablenc said:


> Do you get horny with every female you see? Do only fat people work as chefs?
> 
> Misty is this you under another user?


Let me try and help you understand, firstly my only username is palerider, I fight for the rights of women to receive gender choice for intimate exams, is that a bad thing.

Do I get horny with every female, yes if she puts ky gel in intimate area and strokes, the equivalent to penetration.

Do only fat people work as chefs, depends on their biological make up, one sure thing nothing can change a man from being one' pumping testosterone through blood. Medical training wont help changes, please see link.
Psychiatrist lied about sex with patients, inquiry told - Independent.ie


----------



## pailrider

Maneo said:


> All those who advocate for same gender doctors, particularly for females, get suddenly quiet when the issue of being examined by same gender docs who are lesbian or homosexual is raised. If the primary assumption of these "any viewing of genitalia is sexual" crowd is valid then surely there must be concern that examination of a woman by a lesbian OB-GYN carries the same libidinous risks. So should we be asking the sexual preference of our health care providers?
> 
> The core assumption here seems to be that any viewing of the genital area by someone of the opposite gender (setting aside the homosexual argument mentioned above) is automatically a sexually charged situation. Further, that the men who become OB-GYNs have a compelling desire to get into that line of work to get paid for looking at female privates and getting aroused. What clever boys!
> 
> If you reject that core assumption, which I would posit most rational, knowledgable, 21st century adults do reject, then this whole objection to the little lady seeing a male doctor falls apart. But no amount of logical reasoning, documentary evidence, and legal and professional codes of conduct seem to sway this dedicated group who steadfastly hold to the premise that any look at the female coochie (and heaven forbid! touching it!) is an instant erection maker for the guys and an automatic violation of the that female. Then it is time to fold the tents and let them have their corner of a fantasy world shared with those who still believe the earth is flat, the moon landings were all faked, there should be no intermixing of the races, and Elvis still lives.
> 
> However, I do draw the line when these same deluded believers try to impose their irrational beliefs on others by trying to control which doctor wives, daughters, sisters and other women can see for their medical care based solely on the gender of that doctor. If I could I would drive that poor besieged wife of the paranoid "no other man is going to see my wife's vagina" husband to the doc of her choice, male or female, and uphold her right to choose the doctor of her choice to tend to her medical needs.


Completely wrong typical argument IMO. Sounding a little brainwashed IMO, can I help you understand?


----------



## BradWesley

It's good to see that the shallow and insecure people, who also suffer from the "Me Tarzan, you Jane" syndrome are alive and well!


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Tarzan here. Anyone seen Jane?


----------



## mablenc

Signing up as three different users to make a point with no credentials or at the very least any credible source can't make you change anyone's mind. This is moving towards a "who are you going to believe me or your own eyes" situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BradWesley

CouldItBeSo said:


> Tarzan here. Anyone seen Jane?


According to some here, she's having a threesome with her male gynecologist and his nurse.


----------



## Starstarfish

> we keep hearing that only a male is available. that is interesting, because it looks like only 30% of obgyn is male. also, i maintain that the male should not be ob/gyn in the first place. its not that hard to find a female, really.


Uh, no, we keep hearing that only a male was available -in this situation- for the OP's wife -when she was able to go- because they only have -one car- and there seemed to be limited interest on the part of the OP to give solutions to this problem. Indeed, it seems he uses restricted access to the car as a way to curtail his wife's behavior as a regular threat. 

And where's this 30% statistic come from? Do we have a link? And just because you personally feel there should be no male OB/GYN that doesn't just make them disappear. It doesn't change who is available in a local area, or who insurance will cover, or any other factors.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

I don't know about you guys but as a male I'd rather go to female doctor than to a male doctor.


----------



## pailrider

CouldItBeSo said:


> I don't know about you guys but as a male I'd rather go to female doctor than to a male doctor.


One sure thing, the female doc has no high testosterone level, to drive her. However if your partner asked you to see a man, would'nt you oblige, to keep her happy.


----------



## Cletus

pailrider said:


> One sure thing, the female doc has no high testosterone level, to drive her. However if your partner asked you to see a man, would'nt you oblige, to keep her happy.


No.

I'd tell he she's my doctor, it's a professional doctor-patient relationship, and she'll just have to suck it up. No hyperbole.


----------



## mablenc

pailrider said:


> One sure thing, the female doc has no high testosterone level, to drive her. However if your partner asked you to see a man, would'nt you oblige, to keep her happy.


So women are not capable of sexual desire because they have low testosterone?  So female doctors are not the perverts just male doctors that are OBGYN? 

I think its time to stop feeding this craziness.


----------



## turnera

pailrider said:


> One sure thing, the female doc has no high testosterone level, to drive her. However if your partner asked you to see a man, would'nt you oblige, to keep her happy.


No. I'd see the doctor I was most comfortable with.


----------



## MissFroggie

Hands off my pu55y!!!!!


----------



## MissFroggie

Is it unethical to take my female cat to a male vet? How about my male cat, can he be seen by a female vet? I think I may have corrupted my cats


----------



## CouldItBeSo

MissFroggie said:


> Is it unethical to take my female cat to a male vet? How about my male cat, can he be seen by a female vet? I think I may have corrupted my cats


I think either way is OK, just try to calm down your pu55y by petting it now and then if it gets too wild.


----------



## MissFroggie

CouldItBeSo said:


> I think either way is OK, just try to calm down your pu55y by petting it now and then if it gets too wild.


Plenty of stroking and I bought lots of toys too...purrr purrrr


----------



## Starstarfish

Ladies, you've been given the ultimate free pass for LD behavior of all time - you just have low T, and therefore no drive to be sexual. 

Finally!


----------



## pailrider

mablenc said:


> So women are not capable of sexual desire because they have low testosterone? So female doctors are not the perverts just male doctors that are OBGYN?
> 
> I think its time to stop feeding this craziness.


The problem is, you want to hear that it is ok and gender doesn't matter. Proof is in the pudding, 100's of male doctors have been charged with abuse, I cant find any information about
female doctors in court, for abusing men. Perhaps you can find a news link and post it here.??

Draw your oun conclusion.


----------



## mablenc

pailrider said:


> The problem is, you want to hear that it is ok and gender doesn't matter. Proof is in the pudding, 100's of male doctors have been charged with abuse, I cant find any information about
> female doctors in court, for abusing men. Perhaps you can find a news link and post it here.??
> 
> Draw your oun conclusion.


Show me facts not long stretched theories
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pailrider

Starstarfish said:


> Ladies, you've been given the ultimate free pass for LD behavior of all time - you just have low T, and therefore no drive to be sexual.
> 
> Finally!


Perhaps you can find a news link, show female doctors in court for abuse of men, post it here, or perhaps you believe women can become errect. Question why are so many men in court?

Has medical training turned off male drive, speaking as a man NO.!!


----------



## pailrider

turnera said:


> No. I'd see the doctor I was most comfortable with.


You would'nt consider the feelings of your partner if it upsets him, knowing what an initmate exam includes?

Do you consider your partnership will have longevity?


----------



## mablenc

My life was saved my a male obgyn, I'm greatful to be alive thanks to these medical professionals. I doubt he had an erection while treating me. I'm stepping out of this thread, it's an insult to women and the medical profession as a whole.

OP, good luck

Misty and all her personalities, good luck to you too, IC does help in resolving these kinds of issues. Plus you have say on who treats you, just like everyone else. The danger is in pushing an dangerous agenda with frivolous ideas that can lead a person to prospone important life saving treatment and screenings.


----------



## whathappenedtome

I find it odd that anyone would have a problem with this. I want my wife to have the best doctor who makes her the most comfortable. She's the one who can best determine that. 

But I guess everyone is different and comes from a different perspective. I would trust an ob/gyn over just about anyone else with my wife. He has seen more women than anyone could ever imagine, which in my mind would make him less susceptible to any funny business with my wife.


----------



## pailrider

mablenc said:


> Show me facts not long stretched theories
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Probabl be banned from posting if I posted hundreds of abuse cases, so you will have to believe my honesty, here is a sample!

Testimony Begins In Doctor's Sexual Assault Trial - Courant.com

Victims say better laws needed to protect public from medical professionals convicted of sex crimes

Not good reading but, there are hundreds if not thousands similar.


----------



## pailrider

MissFroggie said:


> Is it unethical to take my female cat to a male vet? How about my male cat, can he be seen by a female vet? I think I may have corrupted my cats


Reality please, not fantasy!


----------



## GTdad

pailrider said:


> Probabl be banned from posting if I posted hundreds of abuse cases, so you will have to believe my honesty, here is a sample!
> 
> Testimony Begins In Doctor's Sexual Assault Trial - Courant.com
> 
> Victims say better laws needed to protect public from medical professionals convicted of sex crimes
> 
> Not good reading but, there are hundreds if not thousands similar.


If we want to go down that road, I can equally justify why our kids should never have opposite-sex teachers or our spouses opposite-sex coworkers.


----------



## MissFroggie

I think you'll find that the *vast* majority of the prison population (UK) is male - see page 5.

This is not relating to gynecologists, but from this data are we to assume that men should never be put in a position of trust at all ever?? Male teachers should be banned, male accountants - banned, male taxi drivers - banned, etc etc? 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...MqfEk6pJKE2rqLrXlLM5oYg&bvm=bv.57155469,d.ZG4


----------



## MissFroggie

pailrider said:


> Perhaps you can find a news link, show female doctors in court for abuse of men, post it here, or perhaps you believe women can become errect. Question why are so many men in court?
> 
> *Has medical training turned off male drive, speaking as a man NO.!!*


So you HAVE medical training? Just checking because otherwise your position as a man doesn't count - it is men with medical training you are talking about, not just any guy...


----------



## Cletus

pailrider said:


> Probabl be banned from posting if I posted hundreds of abuse cases, so you will have to believe my honesty, here is a sample!
> 
> Testimony Begins In Doctor's Sexual Assault Trial - Courant.com
> 
> Victims say better laws needed to protect public from medical professionals convicted of sex crimes
> 
> Not good reading but, there are hundreds if not thousands similar.


35000 people die in auto accidents every year. Do you recommend people not drive? Because this is more or less the argument you're presenting - avoid something because there is a small but nonzero risk of offense. 

Abuse is abuse, and should be dealt with and punished as it is discovered. The AMA has an opinion on chaperones during pelvic, breast, and rectal exams - Opinion 8.21 - Use of Chaperones During Physical Exams. If you have concerns over your doctor, make sure he uses a chaperone. 

I'm not so naive to believe that abuse never happens. Nor am I so paranoid nor unrealistic to believe that it happens at anything more than a woefully small fringe of all doctors. 

If your doctor abuses you, have his license revoked. If he doesn't, and the vast majority do not, then there's no problem.


----------



## MissFroggie

pailrider said:


> Probabl be banned from posting if I posted hundreds of abuse cases, so you will have to believe my honesty, here is a sample!
> 
> Testimony Begins In Doctor's Sexual Assault Trial - Courant.com
> 
> Victims say better laws needed to protect public from medical professionals convicted of sex crimes
> 
> Not good reading but, there are hundreds if not thousands similar.


These are specific cases not STATISTICS. 

statistics
stəˈtɪstɪks/
noun 
noun: statistics

"The practice or science of collecting and analysing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample."

You can find cases relating to just about anything - wow, I even read an article talking about a man arrested for having intimate relations with his CAR - doesn't mean every man is doing that (I hope lol). Statistics (see definition above - I added that just in case you didn't know) are entirely different and have some relevance in certain situations, eg this situation.



pailrider said:


> Reality please, not fantasy!


Funny, your posts seem less realistic than mine IMO. That's okay though - I just LMAO so now I don't need to worry about having to see gynecologists at all


----------



## BradWesley

Must be a real b!tch going through life with serious insecurity issues


----------



## BFGuru

pailrider said:


> The problem is, you want to hear that it is ok and gender doesn't matter. Proof is in the pudding, 100's of male doctors have been charged with abuse, I cant find any information about
> female doctors in court, for abusing men. Perhaps you can find a news link and post it here.??
> 
> Draw your oun conclusion.


100s out of how many? That is not a ratio or even a legitimate statistic. Thanks again for ignoring the actual research I presented. 

And...what man in his right mind would EVER admit, let alone press charges over a female health care provider being sexually inappropriate with him? His friends would laugh him out of town if he complained. So, immediately your "statistics" are skewed because you are comparing two different populations. I bet sexual inappropriateness happens on all fronts. Male to female, vice versa nad same sex. Heck, I've even had patients be inappropriate with me, but I don't report them. I simply remind them that it is inappropriate. Should I stop working because heaven forbid the guy I'm catheterizing asks me about my boobs? No. I am a professional, with a job to do. I do that job and go on my way. Because, again...we don't run and masturbate after every naked person we see.


----------



## GTdad

BFGuru said:


> Should I stop working because heaven forbid the guy I'm catheterizing asks me about my boobs? No.


We could, however, seriously question why a guy would want to startle or annoy the person doing the catheterizing ...


----------



## pailrider

GTdad said:


> If we want to go down that road, I can equally justify why our kids should never have opposite-sex teachers or our spouses opposite-sex coworkers.


How does that compare with an intimate exam, cant see any connection?


----------



## GTdad

pailrider said:


> How does that compare with an intimate exam, cant see any connection?


I'd say that, based on a number of incidents I could cite regarding teachers of both sexes having inappropriate relationships (i.e., sexually assaulting) their students, intimate exams are irrelevant to this sort of thing happening.


----------



## pailrider

Cletus said:


> 35000 people die in auto accidents every year. Do you recommend people not drive? Because this is more or less the argument you're presenting - avoid something because there is a small but nonzero risk of offense.
> 
> Abuse is abuse, and should be dealt with and punished as it is discovered. The AMA has an opinion on chaperones during pelvic, breast, and rectal exams - Opinion 8.21 - Use of Chaperones During Physical Exams. If you have concerns over your doctor, make sure he uses a chaperone.
> 
> I'm not so naive to believe that abuse never happens. Nor am I so paranoid nor unrealistic to believe that it happens at anything more than a woefully small fringe of all doctors.
> 
> If your doctor abuses you, have his license revoked. If he doesn't, and the vast majority do not, then there's no problem.


I can find you a link that says after abuse they can remain treating opposite gender. Car accidents and emergencies are exception to the rule, I speak of gender choice being offered, unfortunately it isn't. Who is in control in high position of the medical profession man or women ,there lays the answer IMO.

Chaperone changes nothing, the assitant is there primerily to cover the doctors back from abuse claim and exam is carried out the same with cross gender.

Anything more than a woefully small fringe of all doctors taking advantage of a situation, how many female are guilty, post a media link to news, I would like to read it. IMO you will not find any! Please prove me wrong.....


----------



## pailrider

MissFroggie said:


> So you HAVE medical training? Just checking because otherwise your position as a man doesn't count - it is men with medical training you are talking about, not just any guy...


I suggest you set up a google search if you think I don't count, its all out there. Not just any guy, as stated medical training cant change a man, as man I can assure you, believe or not.

Bottom line, if you are comfortable with gender choice, fine for you.


----------



## pailrider

GTdad said:


> I'd say that, based on a number of incidents I could cite regarding teachers of both sexes having inappropriate relationships (i.e., sexually assaulting) their students, intimate exams are irrelevant to this sort of thing happening.


The point is, the guy that created this thread is upset by lack of
gender choice, I agree with him, women wont want to appear doing anything intimately wrong, expect others to agree with them, a natural response, no one wants other to consider they did something wrong.... If you get my drift.

Men in control in high position, why hasn't gender choice being offered for regular intimate exams, why would a red blooded male decide to take up this type of work, those are the question some guys ask themselves, Good luck.


----------



## Cletus

pailrider said:


> Anything more than a woefully small fringe of all doctors taking advantage of a situation, how many female are guilty, post a media link to news, I would like to read it. IMO you will not find any! Please prove me wrong.....


No doubt the incidence of abuse from female gynecologists is lower than that of men. To argue otherwise would be foolish.

It is still not the point. A woman has the right to her own free agency regarding her health care provider. Just like it's fine for me to climb in the car and go to work every morning. If you're not comfortable with that but she is, perhaps you're married to the wrong woman. Or perhaps you just won't always get your way.

If you're one of those who attempts to reduce all risk in life to zero, then I'm sure you would make a different choice.


----------



## pailrider

Cletus said:


> No doubt the incidence of abuse from female gynecologists is lower than that of men. To argue otherwise would be foolish.
> 
> It is still not the point. A woman has the right to her own free agency regarding her health care provider. Just like it's fine for me to climb in the car and go to work every morning. If you're not comfortable with that but she is, perhaps you're married to the wrong woman. Or perhaps you just won't always get your way.
> 
> If you're one of those who attempts to reduce all risk in life to zero, then I'm sure you would make a different choice.


Man or Women have to live in harmony for longevity, if my wife said, it hurts the fact you see a female for a rectul exam, I would make sure I respected her view, will have mutual respect, emergencies excepted. 

We have a mutual agreement which helps with happiness in the relationship.

Surely that is the whole point of being married, keep each other happy!


----------



## BradWesley

pailrider said:


> Man or Women have to live in harmony for longevity, if my wife said, it hurts the fact you see a female for a rectul exam, I would make sure I respected her view, will have mutual respect, emergencies excepted.
> 
> We have a mutual agreement which helps with happiness in the relationship.
> 
> Surely that is the whole point of being married, keep each other happy!


The whole point of a marriage is to keep each other happy - ROTFLMFAO.

You have no concept of what a marriage involves!!!!!!!


----------



## lenzi

pailrider said:


> Men in control in high position, why hasn't gender choice being offered for regular intimate exams, why would a red blooded male decide to take up this type of work, those are the question some guys ask themselves, Good luck.


I never wondered why a proctologist chose that type of work.

Although now you got me thinking.

What kind of person, men or woman wants to look at a bunch of A$$holes all day?


----------



## BostonBruins32

umm..is this really a topic?


----------



## Created2Write

pailrider said:


> Obviously your decision to see a man for that reason, ever wondered why so many men take up that type of work for money.


Honestly, I could care less _why_ a man chooses to be a gynecologist. The job isn't glamorous, it isn't fun or sexy, and I would be willing to be my life's savings that the men who go into it for perverted reasons don't last very long at all. I'm not any more suspicious of a man who becomes a gynecologist than I am a lesbian who becomes a gynecologist. I assume they choose that profession because they want to help women.



> Regarding training do you really believe training can stop a man from being a man with healthy sexual desires. As a man I can say no' impossible, medical training cant turn off testosterone and sex drive, if it did the world would stop


Since when did being a doctor require the "turning off" of sexual desire? You do know that doctors get married and have active sexual lives, right? Or do you think that the only naked vaginas they see are the ones they see at work? 



> ,sounds like you have
> no gender choice, which is strange when more women are going into gynecology, right now. Personally as a man hate my wife seeing a man for intimate exams, especially after extensive research into the medical profession - good luck its your body, only you and your partner to keep happy.


It's not strange at all, actually. Men and women go through the same amount of education and training to become gynecologists, so why should I care if the gynecologist I see is a man or woman? What I don't get is why so many men are so insecure over the physician their wives choose to see. Grow a pair and get over yourself. 

No one has said anything about the chance that their wives could see a lesbian if they go to a female gynecologist. Why is that, I wonder? The lesbians could have the exact same sexual desires the man does. Lesbians could also probably get away with touching your wife inappropriately simply because she's a woman. Yet, when a woman chooses to see a male warnings are tossed out all over the place and for what? 

I'm so glad my husband is a real man who isn't effected by such petty, unimportant crap.


----------



## lenzi

Created2Write said:


> You do know that doctors get married and have active sexual lives, right? Or do you think that the only naked vaginas they see are the ones they see at work?


How can they see a vagina that isn't naked?


----------



## Created2Write

amanthatcares said:


> the thinking on here is a result of the looseness we inherited from the 60's-70's
> 
> i think it does matter if the wife is unwilling to conceed on a mattter with a simple solution.
> 
> we keep hearing that only a male is available. that is interesting, because it looks like only 30% of obgyn is male. also, i maintain that the male should not be ob/gyn in the first place. its not that hard to find a female, really.


There are a lot of women who aren't comfortable seeing a male doctor/gynecologist. If they all ask for females, it absolutely _can_ be very hard to find a female that's available. Hospitals do not come with an unlimited amount of gynecologists, and based on the many number of reasons a woman would need to see one, it's not unreasonable at all to say that a female is unavailable. 



> there may be gay/lesbian doctors, but again that is only 1% of population or less, and most docs my wife has seen has been married, so thats out too.


Would you feel insecure if you knew that the female gynecologist your wife went to was a lesbian?



> maybe they dont think anything other than professional thoughts, i highly doubt it, but maybe some of the older ones i suppose it is possible. this field does have the highest rate of incidents reported for males, but almost nill for female.
> 
> looks like we wont agree, but that is ok.


I will never accept that a husband has unilateral say over what doctor I do or do not get to visit. Nor will I ever accept the idea that, because a man has a penis, he's suddenly immoral for wanting to help women and caring about the issues they face. The idea is so foreign to me, I can't even grasp it. 

Are women immoral for becoming doctors for men's health?


----------



## lenzi

Created2Write said:


> Nor will I ever accept the idea that, because a man has a penis, he's suddenly immoral for wanting to help women and caring about the issues they face.


Most people who become doctors choose to do so because it pays good money and the associated social status. Not because of moral issues or because they care so much about women's issues. And it sure beats picking up garbage cans from people's houses and emptying them into a big truck in the middle of the winter!


----------



## Created2Write

pailrider said:


> One sure thing, the female doc has no high testosterone level, to drive her. However if your partner asked you to see a man, would'nt you oblige, to keep her happy.


So now we're arguing that women would be less tempted than men because women don't have as much testosterone?


Really?


----------



## Created2Write

pailrider said:


> Has medical training turned off male drive, speaking as a man NO.!!


Wait, this would imply that you've been through 10+ years of medical training. Unless you have, then there's no basis to this statement whatsoever.


----------



## Created2Write

lenzi said:


> Most people who become doctors choose to do so because it pays good money and the associated social status. Not because of moral issues or because they care so much about women's issues. And it sure beats picking up garbage cans from people's houses and emptying them into a big truck in the middle of the winter!


Personally, I have more respect for professionals in the health care system than to assume they're only in it for money and social status.


----------



## norajane

pailrider said:


> Men in control in high position, why hasn't gender choice being offered for regular intimate exams, why would a red blooded male decide to take up this type of work, those are the question some guys ask themselves, Good luck.


Is it really so hard to understand that a man would want to help bring new babies into the world? All gynecologists are also trained obstetricians, which is why it's called ob/gyn. It's not all about them lusting after your wife's vagina. 

I guess you never watched The Cosby Show, huh?


----------



## MissFroggie

lenzi said:


> I never wondered why a proctologist chose that type of work.
> 
> Although now you got me thinking.
> 
> *What kind of person, men or woman wants to look at a bunch of A$$holes all day?*


We are answering him...maybe us lol


----------



## Maneo

Methinks those who keep tossing out silliness like casting doubt on the motives for any man who enters the field of gynecology or making broad generalizations about all men going into lust mode upon seeing a woman's privates are just tossing these idiotic messages out for the fun of watching others get apoplectic and respond in force to such lunacy.

Fortunately the majority of us live in the adult world of the 21st century including most (though not all!) policy makers and community leaders and reject these simplistic and out dated ideas.

So I think we should all stop letting these Neanderthal knuckle dragging notions bother us and take pity on the poor misbegotten souls who might actually believe any of this nonsense.


----------



## LonelyinLove

pailrider said:


> You would'nt consider the feelings of your partner if it upsets him, knowing what an initmate exam includes?
> 
> Do you consider your partnership will have longevity?


If my partner was that insecure and immature, I'd be looking for a new one.

Not only was my own OBGyn male, but I worked with him too.

My hubs never thought a thing about it, because there was nothing to think about.

This conversation is beyond absurd.


----------



## LonelyinLove

pailrider said:


> The point is, the guy that created this thread is upset by lack of
> gender choice, I agree with him, women wont want to appear doing anything intimately wrong, expect others to agree with them, a natural response, no one wants other to consider they did something wrong.... If you get my drift.
> 
> Men in control in high position, why hasn't gender choice being offered for regular intimate exams, why would a red blooded male decide to take up this type of work, those are the question some guys ask themselves, Good luck.


The guy that created this thread has other issues....You might want to research a little.


----------



## BFGuru

pailrider said:


> why would a red blooded male decide to take up this type of work, those are the question some guys ask themselves, Good luck.


Do we really have to explain this to you? seriously? 

Any redblooded male who chooses this profession gets into it for a gammut of reasons that are not sexual in any nature. For starts, just because a baby comes through the vagina does not mean child birth is sexual. Actually watching their children born turns many a father off from sexual relations with their partners. Childbirth is messy, slimy, filled with disgusting body fluids, but when that newborn gasps it's first breath and cries its first cry, there is magic in the air. Handing that baby off to it's parents is something phenominal. To be there when life takes its first breath is just...wonderful. This is why anyone normally gets into OBGYN. Pap smears are a neccessary evil that many have to grapple with. we don't like doing them (I say we because at one point I considred midwifery and had the same mental conversation in my head). Many times the patients are dirty and I can tell you many a story of OBGYNs who ran from the room to vomit. But they suck it up and deal because SOMEONE has to do the exam and it falls under the guidlines of "women's health". They recognize that someone has to be responsible for the health of females and since they are already doing the work via childbirth, why not continue the work in the clinic with preventative care. 

The second group of people that get into OBGYN have family members or loved ones who have suffered greatly with reproductive health issues, be it infertility, or cancer or endometriosis. Again, not anything to do with the act of "getting an orgasm for myself" and everything to do with helping people experience the miracle of life. Or to survive devastation of things like cancer. 

It is an egomaniac and ignorant individual who refuses to educate themselves out of the ignorance that insists that anyone going into this field be it male or female do so out of lust. The statistics I have provided (that are easily found on the first page of a google search) show the male to female ratio of OBGYNs fares in massive favor of men being the likely care provider. They can't all be ignorant pissant hormone penis heads. And if you truly believe they all are, then you sir are not safe to be around women in any venue.


----------



## RandomDude

lol I'm just surprised this thread has reached 52 pages! Can't take it seriously ne more...

Just to rub it in however, my STBX and I back in our good days did roleplay a few "medical scenarios" 

So she must have had orgasms getting examined by her gynos considering she had them with my 'exams' correct? I had no idea!


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Ah, now I see you're only talking about red blooded males. All this fuss does not apply to us royal men whose blood is blue.


----------



## pailrider

LonelyinLove said:


> If my partner was that insecure and immature, I'd be looking for a new one.
> 
> Not only was my own OBGyn male, but I worked with him too.
> 
> My hubs never thought a thing about it, because there was nothing to think about.
> 
> This conversation is beyond absurd.


What can I say...DYOR!!!

Principal in suicide bid after sex claims - Crime & Courts | IOL News | IOL.co.za


----------



## pailrider

LonelyinLove said:


> The guy that created this thread has other issues....You might want to research a little.


How much research do you need? I can supply or simply DYOR..

Jailed: Family doctor who deceived female patients into posing for indecent photos | UK | News | Daily Express


----------



## pailrider

BFGuru said:


> Do we really have to explain this to you? seriously?
> 
> Any redblooded male who chooses this profession gets into it for a gammut of reasons that are not sexual in any nature. For starts, just because a baby comes through the vagina does not mean child birth is sexual. Actually watching their children born turns many a father off from sexual relations with their partners. Childbirth is messy, slimy, filled with disgusting body fluids, but when that newborn gasps it's first breath and cries its first cry, there is magic in the air. Handing that baby off to it's parents is something phenominal. To be there when life takes its first breath is just...wonderful. This is why anyone normally gets into OBGYN. Pap smears are a neccessary evil that many have to grapple with. we don't like doing them (I say we because at one point I considred midwifery and had the same mental conversation in my head). Many times the patients are dirty and I can tell you many a story of OBGYNs who ran from the room to vomit. But they suck it up and deal because SOMEONE has to do the exam and it falls under the guidlines of "women's health". They recognize that someone has to be responsible for the health of females and since they are already doing the work via childbirth, why not continue the work in the clinic with preventative care.
> 
> The second group of people that get into OBGYN have family members or loved ones who have suffered greatly with reproductive health issues, be it infertility, or cancer or endometriosis. Again, not anything to do with the act of "getting an orgasm for myself" and everything to do with helping people experience the miracle of life. Or to survive devastation of things like cancer.
> 
> It is an egomaniac and ignorant individual who refuses to educate themselves out of the ignorance that insists that anyone going into this field be it male or female do so out of lust. The statistics I have provided (that are easily found on the first page of a google search) show the male to female ratio of OBGYNs fares in massive favor of men being the likely care provider. They can't all be ignorant pissant hormone penis heads. And if you truly believe they all are, then you sir are not safe to be around women in any venue.


Far to much txt to answer, in brief, its not all about child birth, gender choice is what is needed IMO or at least the offer of it, simple! So you believe medical training can change a mans biological makeup, sorry impossible, obviously up to you, who enters your intimate area's, in my our case, we want gender choice for us both. Very simple request in 2014 IMHO.

UK jails SA doctor for sex abuse - Crime & Courts | IOL News | IOL.co.za


----------



## pailrider

Maneo said:


> Methinks those who keep tossing out silliness like casting doubt on the motives for any man who enters the field of gynecology or making broad generalizations about all men going into lust mode upon seeing a woman's privates are just tossing these idiotic messages out for the fun of watching others get apoplectic and respond in force to such lunacy.
> 
> Fortunately the majority of us live in the adult world of the 21st century including most (though not all!) policy makers and community leaders and reject these simplistic and out dated ideas.
> 
> So I think we should all stop letting these Neanderthal knuckle dragging notions bother us and take pity on the poor misbegotten souls who might actually believe any of this nonsense.


*Friend this is the real adult world..*

The rogue GPs who fought a ban, only to be struck off again - Telegraph


----------



## MattMatt

Jack I said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife before.She's going to see a male gynecologist this week.I told her I didn't like it and that it wasn't going to happen.She pretty much said it's her money and she's gonna go regardless.Ladies how do you feel about this?How many of you see male gynecologists?For the men whose wives see male gynecologists,how do you feel about it?


I recently had a female doctor who had to put her hand up my bottom. She was a good doctor so neither I or my wife cared.

So, your point is you'd rather your wife was seen by a less competent female gynaecologist, rather than by a very competent male gynaecologist? Really?:scratchhead:


----------



## pailrider

CouldItBeSo said:


> Ah, now I see you're only talking about red blooded males. All this fuss does not apply to us royal men whose blood is blue.


Isn't a red blooded man on earth to procreate, blue blood needs transfusion imo!.


----------



## Camarillo Brillo

MattMatt said:


> I recently had a female doctor who had to *put her hand up my bottom*. She was a good doctor so neither I or my wife cared.
> 
> So, your point is you'd rather your wife was seen by a less competent female gynaecologist, rather than by a very competent male gynaecologist? Really?:scratchhead:


The whole damn hand?? 
 

Here in the States the Docs generally just use one finger. Yikes.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

With this same logic, wives of male gynecologists could deny their husbands from examining any female patients...
























Wait, that won't work! :rofl:


----------



## pailrider

CouldItBeSo said:


> With this same logic, wives of male gynecologists could deny their husbands from examining any female patients...
> 
> 
> Friend if you research some wife are against it, not sure If I can find a link to that, you will have to trust my word.
> 
> Cant say I blame them, thousands of medical jobs without choosing female intimate areas IMHO! Ever wondered why, strange job for a bloke IMO!
> 
> God luck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, that won't work! :rofl:


----------



## MaBi123

I'm always more comfortable with female doctors, but my fiance feels the same was as the OP. He doesn't even want me going to a male dentist.

He says the reason is that most guys are perverts and he doesn't want me alone in the room with them. I don't really agree, but it doesn't matter to me what doctor I go to so I go along with it to make him happy.

OP: You need to identify the reason you feel upset and talk to your wife about it. Do you have a legitimate concern about this particular doctor, or would you feel the same way about any male doc? Is it just a simple jealousy/possessiveness thing (no man should touch my wife but me) or is there something else going on?


----------



## turnera

pailrider said:


> How much research do you need? I can supply or simply DYOR..


they will still never add up to anywhere near the millions of safe, sane exams that are carried out. For every case you dredge up, we could counter with 50,000 exams that went just fine.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

I guess male obstetricians and all the other personnel that help during child birth are a no go too then?


----------



## pailrider

turnera said:


> they will still never add up to anywhere near the millions of safe, sane exams that are carried out. For every case you dredge up, we could counter with 50,000 exams that went just fine.


From your quote, its absolutely fine that abuse goes on, because it wont happen to you, are you sure!


----------



## pailrider

CouldItBeSo said:


> I guess male obstetricians and all the other personnel that help during child birth are a no go too then?


Good or not, isn't the issue, I refer to gender choice and the lack of it


----------



## RandomDude

> I'm always more comfortable with female doctors, but my fiance feels the same was as the OP. *He doesn't even want me going to a male dentist.*


!!!


----------



## TiggyBlue

MaBi123 said:


> He doesn't even want me going to a male dentist.


I think he may have the wrong idea of what a oral exam is


----------



## RandomDude

TiggyBlue said:


> I think he may have the wrong idea of what a oral exam is


:rofl:


----------



## MissFroggie

TiggyBlue said:


> I think he may have the wrong idea of what a oral exam is


Hilarious!!!  :rofl:


----------



## MissFroggie

pailrider said:


> From your quote, its absolutely fine that abuse goes on, because it wont happen to you, are you sure!


She didn't say anything of the sort and I find this reaction (along with many of your reactions) quite absurd.

If you are going to live your life in fear and do everything you possibly can to avoid abuse you'd have to become some kind of hermit...but then you'd be vulnerable because you'd be alone...darn, can't win! Abuse can happen anywhere, any time, to anyone. If you want to start looking at individual incidents rather than statistics you can find incidents to prevent you from being able to do anything ever. You can't go out because people have been attacked outside, you can't stay home because people have been attacked in their own homes, better not send the kids to school because children have been abused by teachers, can't go to church because people have been abused there too, playgroups, coffee mornings, school, work, home, pubs, clubs, prayer meetings, synagogues, mosques, parks etc etc etc....there is NO situation where you can't find a newspaper article describing a terrible incident that happened. The trouble is you are using individual incidents rather than statistical probabilities and you're saying it is _likely_ to happen when that is not the case and is not backed statistically.

Have you even read the entire thread? The points you are making are not even relevant to the situation we are all discussing anyway. The OP said his wife can not get an appointment with a female...so he has prevented her from being able to get important medical treatment...meanwhile he doesn't know if the dr who carried out the abortion he pushed her into was male or female, gets lap dances in strip clubs, hires hookers for anal and thinks all this is fine....

You are quite right that the OP's wife is a likely candidate for abuse though, she is already in what many of us would consider an abusive relationship anyway.


----------



## moxy

There's nothing wrong with seeing a male gynecologist for a professionally regulated medical appointment. It's not an intimate experience.

What's at the root of the objection?


----------



## amanthatcares

how is the exam not an intimate experience? even the doctors themselves admit that this is an intimate exam. woman is lying on back in a comprimising position, with no clothing from the waist down, and many times no clothe at all except for a paper gown. the doctor puts one of their body parts into your body, it is a very explicit exam. i think it is a quite reasonable position to opt for a female for this exam. i think the objection from a husband or boyfriend is obvious, and reasonable. of course something like this would make any normal person with a conscience jealous. 

if this is not intimate, where do you draw the line?


----------



## amanthatcares

actually many girlfriends and wives of medical students have indicated such a concern in other forums, as well as nursing students. we are not silly. my wife has even told me she couldnt handle it if i were to do that kind of work


----------



## CouldItBeSo

amanthatcares said:


> how is the exam not an intimate experience? even the doctors themselves admit that this is an intimate exam. woman is lying on back in a comprimising position, with no clothing from the waist down, and many times no clothe at all except for a paper gown. the doctor puts one of their body parts into your body, it is a very explicit exam. i think it is a quite reasonable position to opt for a female for this exam. i think the objection from a husband or boyfriend is obvious, and reasonable. of course something like this would make any normal person with a conscience jealous.
> 
> if this is not intimate, where do you draw the line?


I went to a doctor just a few days ago. The doctor was a woman. But no worries, there was a nurse present all the time... a female nurse. Should I have requested a male doctor and a male nurse? I wonder what their husbands think when they treat male patients. They must be overwhelmed with jealousy. 

Same thing when I went to a dentist; a female dentist and a female dental assistant.

At the gym I go to there is female janitor and I haven't seen any of the guys complaining when she's cleaning in the locker room.


----------



## Maneo

amanthatcares said:


> how is the exam not an intimate experience? even the doctors themselves admit that this is an intimate exam. woman is lying on back in a comprimising position, with no clothing from the waist down, and many times no clothe at all except for a paper gown. the doctor puts one of their body parts into your body, it is a very explicit exam. i think it is a quite reasonable position to opt for a female for this exam. i think the objection from a husband or boyfriend is obvious, and reasonable. of course something like this would make any normal person with a conscience jealous.
> 
> if this is not intimate, where do you draw the line?


Medical examinations are intimate but not in a sexual way. This is a distinction you seem unwilling or incapable of making.


----------



## Created2Write

amanthatcares said:


> how is the exam not an intimate experience? even the doctors themselves admit that this is an intimate exam. woman is lying on back in a comprimising position, with no clothing from the waist down, and many times no clothe at all except for a paper gown. the doctor puts one of their body parts into your body, it is a very explicit exam. i think it is a quite reasonable position to opt for a female for this exam. i think the objection from a husband or boyfriend is obvious, and reasonable. of course something like this would make any normal person with a conscience jealous.
> 
> if this is not intimate, where do you draw the line?


Me: "Honey, are you jealous that I have a male doctor?"

Husband: "No..."

Me: "Would you be jealous if I saw a male gynecologist?"

Husband: "No way."

Me: "Do you think it's normal or reasonable for a guy to be jealous over those things?"

Husbandlaughing) "Definitely not!"

Me: "Do you think it's right or reasonable for a guy to forbid his wife/girlfriend to see a male gynecologist?"

Husband: "Definitely not. If they're jealous over that, than the guys have issues they need to sort out."

Me: "Do you think a gynecological exam is an intimate experience?"

Husband: "Wtf? No way! Not at all."


I love my husband. He went on to ask me if I would be jealous if he had to get a physical with a female doctor, and I said definitely not. I would prefer he see a woman, as she would be more likely to appreciate the beauty in his loins and be gentle. I don't want same male doctor getting jealous and being rough.


----------



## amanthatcares

if you tell a lie big enough, and long enough, everyone will believe it, the bigger the lie, the more likely it is to believe.

brainwashing is easy


----------



## lenzi

amanthatcares said:


> if you tell a lie big enough, and long enough, everyone will believe it, the bigger the lie, the more likely it is to believe.
> 
> brainwashing is easy


No, everyone will not believe it. 

Please leave me out of your generalizations.

You'll be that much closer to being right.

Not that much closer but hey every little bit helps.



Created2Write said:


> I would prefer he see a woman, as she would be more likely to appreciate the beauty in his loins and be gentle. I don't want same male doctor getting jealous and being rough.


I laughed out loud.

The female doctor will be more gentle..because.. wait for it.. here it comes..

The "beauty in his loins"

HAHAHAHAHAA

And a male doctor will be rough because he'll be...jealous!

"We will show this perfect pair of testes what THIS doctor thinks of them! Nurse hand me my reflex hammer!"










Still laughing..

This thread is getting wackier by the day


----------



## sinnister

amanthatcares said:


> if you tell a lie big enough, and long enough, everyone will believe it, the bigger the lie, the more likely it is to believe.
> 
> brainwashing is easy


This is the cyberworld so I forgive you. If you new me in person you would never...ever think that anybody or anything could influence me.


----------



## BFGuru

pailrider said:


> Far to much txt to answer, in brief, its not all about child birth, gender choice is what is needed IMO or at least the offer of it, simple! So you believe medical training can change a mans biological makeup, sorry impossible, obviously up to you, who enters your intimate area's, in my our case, we want gender choice for us both. Very simple request in 2014 IMHO.
> 
> UK jails SA doctor for sex abuse - Crime & Courts | IOL News | IOL.co.za


So lets add lazy to your characteristics too. 

You...YOU can have gender choice. If you wife wants gender choice so be it. However you do not get to choose for her and she does not get to choose for you. It is about respect for each other's health. 

Secondly, it is not all about child birth and had you not been too lazy to read a few short paragraphs (because I can assure you I read far longer texts than that) you would have seen that I addressed that.

Thirdly, how many doctors do you work with? How many nurses, and how many healthcare providers? Because I can assure you, the doctors, nurses and aides I WORK with do not view their patients as a piece of sexual meat. Do we joke around or even discuss sexuality off the clock? Sure. However, that is indeed turned off when in a patient's room. And we never discuss our patients genetalia. Humans are complex creatures. And frankly none of us would want to be treated that way, so we will not treat our patients that way. 

However, I suspect you do not know a single health care professional personally, so you will continue to remain in ignorance. Perpetuating fearmongering seems to be your best tactic.


----------



## amanthatcares

i think what the health care workers forget, is that unlike them, we do not work around that enviroment all the time. a dcotor may have gone to school for 12 years to get used to the idea of nudity, but the patient and their loved ones have not gotten used to the idea at all. as a patient, we do not go through some de-sensitizing process to get ready for undressing in front of a stranger.

if it is no big deal, then why all the fuss about the recent TSA screening tactics? people were really upset over that. why all the websites dealing with this very isssue? why all the all-female obgyn clinics if it is not an isssue? why are we complaining if it is not an issue?

any forum you enter where male ob/gyn or similar is the topic, the thread will go on and on with thousands of comments. clearly, there is more to it than the health care provider cares to admit. 

the men of 50 years ago did not complain because there was no internet, no videos, and no attending the ob/gyn appointment. men were not even allowed into the delivery room, or any other loved one for that matter. but now they are, and now we know, and now we dont like what we have seen. what else can we say? the modesty of the situation can be improved by leaps and bounds with little effort, but why the unwillingness? why jump to the easy way out by name calling and so on?


----------



## pailrider

Created2Write said:


> Me: "Honey, are you jealous that I have a male doctor?"
> 
> Husband: "No..."
> 
> Me: "Would you be jealous if I saw a male gynecologist?"
> 
> Husband: "No way."
> 
> Me: "Do you think it's normal or reasonable for a guy to be jealous over those things?"
> 
> Husbandlaughing) "Definitely not!"
> 
> Me: "Do you think it's right or reasonable for a guy to forbid his wife/girlfriend to see a male gynecologist?"
> 
> Husband: "Definitely not. If they're jealous over that, than the guys have issues they need to sort out."
> 
> Me: "Do you think a gynecological exam is an intimate experience?"
> 
> Husband: "Wtf? No way! Not at all."
> 
> 
> I love my husband. He went on to ask me if I would be jealous if he had to get a physical with a female doctor, and I said definitely not. I would prefer he see a woman, as she would be more likely to appreciate the beauty in his loins and be gentle. I don't want same male doctor getting jealous and being rough.


Hahaha nice joke LMCSO.


----------



## pailrider

amanthatcares said:


> if you tell a lie big enough, and long enough, everyone will believe it, the bigger the lie, the more likely it is to believe.
> 
> brainwashing is easy


Docs expert at it....the lie is out, don't fight it, female gyn's taking over, why? demand for intimate exams.


----------



## amanthatcares

i also find it interesting that its "ok" for the insurance company to dictate to you what doctor you can see, but somehow it is wrong for the husband to have any say in the matter when it comes to his wifes genitles. 

no doubt someone will say the insurance is fine to dictate because they pay the bill, but the husband normally pays the bill also(co-pays, deductables, premiums, prescriptions, ad infinitum)


----------



## pailrider

BFGuru said:


> So lets add lazy to your characteristics too.
> 
> You...YOU can have gender choice. If you wife wants gender choice so be it. However you do not get to choose for her and she does not get to choose for you. It is about respect for each other's health.
> 
> Secondly, it is not all about child birth and had you not been too lazy to read a few short paragraphs (because I can assure you I read far longer texts than that) you would have seen that I addressed that.
> 
> Thirdly, how many doctors do you work with? How many nurses, and how many healthcare providers? Because I can assure you, the doctors, nurses and aides I WORK with do not view their patients as a piece of sexual meat. Do we joke around or even discuss sexuality off the clock? Sure. However, that is indeed turned off when in a patient's room. And we never discuss our patients genetalia. Humans are complex creatures. And frankly none of us would want to be treated that way, so we will not treat our patients that way.
> 
> However, I suspect you do not know a single health care professional personally, so you will continue to remain in ignorance. Perpetuating fearmongering seems to be your best tactic.


Sorry friend its difficult to read repeated txt using the same buzz words, call me lazy if you wish.

Quote you can have gender choice, yes we live together in harmony not as a separate entity.

Secondly to much txt sorry...

Thirdly now to the point...so you are saying medical training removes a mans desire when penetrating another womens sexual organ lol, problem there how do you know how men tick, women have no idea. I know and have spoke with numerous medics through my long life, my research into this subject is extensive, comments backed by news, can you back yours, not just using oun opinion, very doubtful IMO, give it a go post some kind of proof of your last reply, give me something official to read. Now let me quote a Doctor in charge of male trainee doctors, Quote the first hundred patient vaginal exam, you only feel your oun body, erection arousal testosterone blast, here is the truth. Male Doctors Words.

Quote scare tactics lol, why choose to ignore hundreds of male doctors in court for sex abuse of women, try a google search. 

If you save info it will eventually total thousands of court cases,
Scaremonger no reality well documented.....

Finally, how did doctors treat Female Hysteria 45 years ago, please answer for me!


----------



## lenzi

pailrider said:


> Thirdly now to the point...so you are saying medical training removes a mans desire when penetrating another womens sexual organ lol, problem there how do you know how men tick
> 
> Now let me quote a Doctor in charge of male trainee doctors, Quote the first hundred patient vaginal exam, you only feel your oun body, erection arousal testosterone blast, here is the truth. Male Doctors Words.


Great. Now I'm paranoid that my proctologist is gay.

I'm canceling next week's colonoscopy


----------



## pailrider

amanthatcares said:


> i think what the health care workers forget, is that unlike them, we do not work around that enviroment all the time. a dcotor may have gone to school for 12 years to get used to the idea of nudity, but the patient and their loved ones have not gotten used to the idea at all. as a patient, we do not go through some de-sensitizing process to get ready for undressing in front of a stranger.
> 
> if it is no big deal, then why all the fuss about the recent TSA screening tactics? people were really upset over that. why all the websites dealing with this very isssue? why all the all-female obgyn clinics if it is not an isssue? why are we complaining if it is not an issue?
> 
> any forum you enter where male ob/gyn or similar is the topic, the thread will go on and on with thousands of comments. clearly, there is more to it than the health care provider cares to admit.
> 
> the men of 50 years ago did not complain because there was no internet, no videos, and no attending the ob/gyn appointment. men were not even allowed into the delivery room, or any other loved one for that matter. but now they are, and now we know, and now we dont like what we have seen. what else can we say? the modesty of the situation can be improved by leaps and bounds with little effort, but why the unwillingness? why jump to the easy way out by name calling and so on?


I totally agree with your post, well written explaining the modern world, we are no longer in the dark, thanks to the internet.

Friend a simple answer women aren't qualified to answer IMHO, being opposite gender how do they know what goes through a mans body and mind, one thing for sure men have convinced women they aren't sexually aroused, not quite sure how they managed to do that, except that peeps in power can easily brainwash the public.

Of course gender choice is up to the person, but in my case I agree with the person who created the thread, one day in the future cross gender intimate exam will be frowned down on.

Example, how women used to be treated for hysteria, the doctor would bring them to manual orgasm, as a cure, this is well documented (not words)....(documented words)...


----------



## pailrider

turnera said:


> they will still never add up to anywhere near the millions of safe, sane exams that are carried out. For every case you dredge up, we could counter with 50,000 exams that went just fine.


Of course we all believe it will never happen to us, hello it can and does....


----------



## pailrider

lenzi said:


> Great. Now I'm paranoid that my proctologist is gay.
> 
> I'm canceling next week's colonoscopy


Unable to answer that, I suspect gay includes testosterone drive, think I know your point.

Women are different to men, that's how the world spins, man chases women to procreate, as in all the animal kingdom.

This includes male doctors, they are part of the procreation train.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

pailrider said:


> Women are different to men, that's how the world spins, man chases women to procreate, as in all the animal kingdom.


Actually female spiders eat their males. End of "chase" if you will.


----------



## pailrider

CouldItBeSo said:


> Actually female spiders eat their males. End of "chase" if you will.


I've been eaten many time lol, but I survived and fight on for human rights, which gender choice is IMHO.


----------



## pidge70

CouldItBeSo said:


> Actually female spiders eat their males. End of "chase" if you will.


Not to mention, the female praying mantis will bite off the head of her mate while copulating. Speeds up sperm delivery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CouldItBeSo

More comparison to nature. Males hunt for food AKA "provide" while females stay at home right? Wrong. Female lions do all the hunting and killing for the food while the male lions, the "animal kings" lay under trees because they are too fat and lazy to catch any moderately fast animals.


----------



## LonelyinLove

amanthatcares said:


> how is the exam not an intimate experience? even the doctors themselves admit that this is an intimate exam. woman is lying on back in a comprimising position, with no clothing from the waist down, and many times no clothe at all except for a paper gown. the doctor puts one of their body parts into your body, it is a very explicit exam. i think it is a quite reasonable position to opt for a female for this exam. i think the objection from a husband or boyfriend is obvious, and reasonable. of course something like this would make any normal person with a conscience jealous.
> 
> if this is not intimate, where do you draw the line?


Recently I was on my back with nothing on but a hospital gown and the doc had one of his parts inside of me.

I had open heart surgery. He literally had his hand inside my heart. 

The surgeon was male. I didn't opt for another surgeon because he was the best. Period.

I guess my hubs should have been jealous.

Instead he was grateful.

Only a pompous, immature a$$ of a man would be jealous of a clinician.


----------



## Jack I

Created2Write said:


> I asked for a female gynecologist
> 
> Why was it important that you see a female gynecologist?It seems that your admitting saying that you wanted to see a female doctor might confirm my concerns to a degree.


----------



## Jack I

Created2Write said:


> I asked for a female gynecologist


Why was it important that you see a female gynecologist?It seems that your admitting saying that you wanted to see a female doctor might confirm my concerns to a degree.


----------



## MissFroggie

amanthatcares said:


> if you tell a lie big enough, and long enough, everyone will believe it, the bigger the lie, the more likely it is to believe.
> 
> brainwashing is easy


Is that why you call yourself 'amanthatcares'? I'm starting to believe it because I've heard it so much....oh no, sorry, I am mistaken...nah...still don't believe it at all....I don't believe it....I do believe you are not a new poster though and have just made a new account to back yourself up lol :rofl:


----------



## MissFroggie

I think this may be where we have got to with this thread...









Not that we're down to their level or being beaten with experience - but they won't listen and never will...and if in doubt they'll create another account to say the same nonsense over and over lol. If I have ten accounts I can back all myselves up lol


----------



## I Notice The Details

MissFroggie said:


> I think this may be where we have got to with this thread...
> 
> View attachment 12810
> 
> 
> Not that we're down to their level or being beaten with experience - but they won't listen and never will...and if in doubt they'll create another account to say the same nonsense over and over lol. If I have ten accounts I can back all myselves up lol


:iagree: This argument is ridiculous and it just keeps going....55 pages????? WOW!


----------



## pailrider

I Notice The Details said:


> :iagree: This argument is ridiculous and it just keeps going....55 pages????? WOW!


So ridiculous that you fuel it lol. More to the point 55 forums on the subject, close some peoples hearts!

People can fooled some of the time-but....!!!


----------



## pailrider

MissFroggie said:


> Is that why you call yourself 'amanthatcares'? I'm starting to believe it because I've heard it so much....oh no, sorry, I am mistaken...nah...still don't believe it at all....I don't believe it....I do believe you are not a new poster though and have just made a new account to back yourself up lol :rofl:




MissFroggie was you looking in a mirror when writing. Because the opposite argument has been thrown at women for years, usually by the old boys club.


----------



## pailrider

CouldItBeSo said:


> Actually female spiders eat their males. End of "chase" if you will.


Do you believe a spider is part of the animal kingdom, or are saying women are cannibals lol.


----------



## RandomDude

This thread just keeps putting the same word in my head...

ROLEPLAY ROLEPLAY ROLEPLAY

lol

Shame I no longer have a wife to play with, and have a divorce to bloody settle first before anything else, BAH!


----------



## pailrider

RandomDude said:


> This thread just keeps putting the same word in my head...
> 
> ROLEPLAY ROLEPLAY ROLEPLAY
> 
> lol
> 
> Shame I no longer have a wife to play with, and have a divorce to bloody settle first before anything else, BAH!


Sorry to hear that' good luck' beware of baggage. On another subject, an update on the JS case in the UK.

Jimmy Savile hospital doctor accused of raping child on ward - Mirror Online


----------



## CouldItBeSo

pailrider said:


> Do you believe a spider is part of the animal kingdom, or are saying women are cannibals lol.


Of course spiders are part of the Animalia kingdom, what do you think they are if not animals? :scratchhead:


----------



## Created2Write

amanthatcares said:


> if you tell a lie big enough, and long enough, everyone will believe it, the bigger the lie, the more likely it is to believe.
> 
> brainwashing is easy


So you think we're all lying?


----------



## Created2Write

lenzi said:


> I laughed out loud.
> 
> The female doctor will be more gentle..because.. wait for it.. here it comes..
> 
> The "beauty in his loins"
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAA
> 
> And a male doctor will be rough because he'll be...jealous!
> 
> "We will show this perfect pair of testes what THIS doctor thinks of them! Nurse hand me my reflex hammer!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still laughing..
> 
> This thread is getting wackier by the day


You think a wife loving her husband's penis is "wacky"?

Guess I'm wacky then. Cause I do love his penis. I do find his junk beautiful, and I enjoyed that beauty last night. Every beautiful inch.


----------



## Created2Write

pailrider said:


> Hahaha nice joke LMCSO.


It's no joke. That was, honest to God, the conversation we had. And it really is, honest to God, how I feel about my husband seeing a female doctor.


----------



## Created2Write

Jack I said:


> Why was it important that you see a female gynecologist?It seems that your admitting saying that you wanted to see a female doctor might confirm my concerns to a degree.


I asked for a female because the male gynecologists I've been to have been rather rough. The females I've seen were more gentle, so my experience has been opposite to some here. But it had absolutely nothing to do with morals, or me being uncomfortable with a man. 

I also have my husband come with me each time, whether I see a male or female. I don't like being put through painful exams without my husband there to hold my hand. 

So, no, I'm not confirming your concerns at all. I just prefer to be put through the least amount of pain. And if a male gynecologist were to turn out to be more gentle than the female I've seen before, I'd go to him each time.


----------



## Microwavelove

I will admit that I skipped a lot of the responses in this thread, but I see a male gynecologist and for the most part always have. I can't speak for all women, but for me and every woman I know, going to the gyn has always been a pretty sucky, uncomfortable experience no matter who the doctor is. There is nothing remotely sexual about it, and as a wife, I would be pretty annoyed that my husband would make demands over such a personal experience.


----------



## lenzi

Created2Write said:


> You think a wife loving her husband's penis is "wacky"?
> 
> Guess I'm wacky then. Cause I do love his penis. I do find his junk beautiful, and I enjoyed that beauty last night. Every beautiful inch.


Nope, it wasn't about how you feel about your husband's package.

Your statement to the effect of a female doctor will be more gentle with your husband's genitals because of "the beauty of his loins", whereas a male doctor will be rough because of jealousy, is not only wacky, it's completely out of the park. The other poster thought it was a joke, and when he said it, I sort of nodded because THAT made sense but you just confirmed that you were completely serious. It boggles the mind.


----------



## pailrider

Created2Write said:


> It's no joke. That was, honest to God, the conversation we had. And it really is, honest to God, how I feel about my husband seeing a female doctor.


One sure thing, if he sees a female doctor it would be very rare for him to be sexually abuse, but visa vera a different story.

Of course it would never happen to a female, would it lol, check the news flow.

Queensland Psychiatrist accused of having Sex with his Weak Patient | TopNews New Zealand


----------



## pailrider

Created2Write said:


> You think a wife loving her husband's penis is "wacky"?
> 
> Guess I'm wacky then. Cause I do love his penis. I do find his junk beautiful, and I enjoyed that beauty last night. Every beautiful inch.


So do others including medics... the difference, on a plate for some.

Michael Salmon Operation Yewtree arrest: Doctor was once praised by Princess Diana for work with disabled children - Mirror Online

No need to worry it will never happen - will it lol.


----------



## pailrider

Created2Write said:


> I asked for a female because the male gynecologists I've been to have been rather rough. The females I've seen were more gentle, so my experience has been opposite to some here. But it had absolutely nothing to do with morals, or me being uncomfortable with a man.
> 
> I also have my husband come with me each time, whether I see a male or female. I don't like being put through painful exams without my husband there to hold my hand.
> 
> So, no, I'm not confirming your concerns at all. I just prefer to be put through the least amount of pain. And if a male gynecologist were to turn out to be more gentle than the female I've seen before, I'd go to him each time.



A male doctor should be gentle, part of his biologic make up, procreation is the game, spread seed when possible, look for new challenges, sex drive driven by testosterone, erection, scent, penetration, all the elements of a sexual encounter.

The bottom line-what kind of man chooses a daily job enterring female sex organ, for money, pervert perhaps. While women are happy to give up their dignity to male docs, they will oblige.

Obviously up to the individual, but this thread talks of a man against their partner seeing another man for intimate exam, when a female is available, personally I back him, repeat a women will never understand, unless she grows testicles lol.

Really have no idea, accept the lie that there is nothing sexual lol lol lol. Perhaps some enjoy, the reason for back lash to guys that care. Maybe a couldn't care attitude would suite some!


----------



## pailrider

CouldItBeSo said:


> Of course spiders are part of the Animalia kingdom, what do you think they are if not animals? :scratchhead:


I studied a spider today, didn't notice meat and two veg!!!!!

Another male spider tried to touch his lady, he killed it. 

Silver back ape, another tried to examine his wifes lol, don't be fooled that he eats veg, he's extremely strong territorial and will kill..


----------



## CouldItBeSo

pailrider said:


> I studied a spider today, didn't notice meat and two veg!!!!!
> 
> Another male spider tried to touch his lady, he killed it.
> 
> Silver back ape, another tried to examine his wifes lol, don't be fooled that he eats veg, he's extremely strong territorial and will kill..


Is this supposed to prove spiders are not animals?


----------



## MissFroggie

I killed a spider today - it scared the living daylights out of me while watching I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here!!! I did immediately apologise to it's squished remains...


----------



## Created2Write

lenzi said:


> Nope, it wasn't about how you feel about your husband's package.
> 
> Your statement to the effect of a female doctor will be more gentle with your husband's genitals because of "the beauty of his loins", whereas a male doctor will be rough because of jealousy, is not only wacky, it's completely out of the park. The other poster thought it was a joke, and when he said it, I sort of nodded because THAT made sense but you just confirmed that you were completely serious. It boggles the mind.


It was mostly tongue in cheek, actually. I don't _actually_ think all women will automatically be gentle because of the size of his package, anymore than male gynecologists will automatically be gentle because women have vaginas.


----------



## Created2Write

pailrider said:


> One sure thing, if he sees a female doctor it would be very rare for him to be sexually abuse, but visa vera a different story.
> 
> Of course it would never happen to a female, would it lol, check the news flow.
> 
> Queensland Psychiatrist accused of having Sex with his Weak Patient | TopNews New Zealand


I don't live my life in paranoia. My husband is a highly attractive man. He's been hit on, asked out, and flirted with for the entire duration of our relationship. Sometimes with me standing right next to him. I've been glared at, flipped off, cursed at...and all because I'm the woman whose hand he's holding. 

_Could_ he decide to just up and leave me for one of these women? Sure. He has free well. Do I obsess over what _could_ happen? Nope. I trust my husband. Just like I trust medical professionals, and I will continue to trust them both until/if I'm given a reason not to. 

I have never had any experience at a hospital/doctors office that wasn't completely professional. _Could_ I have a negative experience? Sure. And if it ever happens, I'll deal with it then. But I'm not going to make my choices around what _might_ happen.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

MissFroggie said:


> I killed a spider today - it scared the living daylights out of me while watching I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here!!! I did immediately apologise to it's squished remains...


I kill all spiders I see in my apartment. I just hate spiders even though they are beneficial. Some say it will bring you eight years of bad luck so I probably have my whole life worth of bad luck. Though when I was a kid I caught a special looking spider alive that had some green/red pattern in its rear and we brought it to the university biology department in a glass container and it happened to be a totally new never seen species. I don't know why I told all this since I hate spiders.


----------



## lenzi

Created2Write said:


> It's no joke. That was, honest to God, the conversation we had. And it really is, honest to God, how I feel about my husband seeing a female doctor.





Created2Write said:


> It was mostly tongue in cheek, actually. I don't _actually_ think all women will automatically be gentle because of the size of his package, anymore than male gynecologists will automatically be gentle because women have vaginas.


Please make up your mind. 

:scratchhead:


----------



## Created2Write

You gonna follow me around all over the forum picking apart my posts?


----------



## lenzi

Only if there's something about them that I feel the need to respond to, such as the one I am responding to.


----------



## pailrider

CouldItBeSo said:


> Is this supposed to prove spiders are not animals?


Whatever, but in the animal kingdom a male will kill, to protect his mate from interference from the opposite gender. Humans have been known to do the same, haven't you read the news lol.


----------



## pailrider

Created2Write said:


> It's no joke. That was, honest to God, the conversation we had. And it really is, honest to God, how I feel about my husband seeing a female doctor.


Oh' does his female doctor get an erection, honestly...does your male doctor? would you know? Are you bothered? Ever considered a man knows what others are thinking, do you believe there are hundred in court for sexual abuse of women, which is documented, will it ever happen to you, would it bother you, what if he was taking pictures with mini camera or using drugs, as some do? visiting ladies of the night, watching under age p--n, this has been happening according news links I read.

Will you ever accept any of the available information, my guess NO and why, it cant happen to you, can it...


----------



## Cletus

pailrider said:


> Will you ever accept any of the available information, my guess NO and why, it cant happen to you, can it...


Please, by all means, give us some useful information. Not anecdotes. I want numbers. I want to know how many of the millions of gynecological exams performed every year involve untoward behavior.

In short, I want to know if I'm more likely to be killed by an asteroid than I am to have my wife victimized by a male OB/GYN.

You've pretty much proven you believe the risk is higher. I think we all agree. What you seem utterly incapable of understanding here is that most of us find the likelihood of the being so victimized so low that it doesn't rate a blip on our personal radar. 

It is a well studied phenomenon that people are very bad at assessing personal risk. Without some numbers to back up your anecdotes, you're guilty of exactly the same sin.


----------



## Created2Write

Cletus said:


> Please, by all means, give us some useful information. Not anecdotes. I want numbers. I want to know how many of the millions of gynecological exams performed every year involve untoward behavior.
> 
> In short, I want to know if I'm more likely to be killed by an asteroid than I am to have my wife victimized by a male OB/GYN.
> 
> You've pretty much proven you believe the risk is higher. I think we all agree. What you seem utterly incapable of understanding here is that most of us find the likelihood of the being so victimized so low that it doesn't rate a blip on our personal radar.
> 
> It is a well studied phenomenon that people are very bad at assessing personal risk. Without some numbers to back up your anecdotes, you're guilty of exactly the same sin.


Exactly. 

They say you're more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the airport, than be in an actual plane crash. Does that mean I'm going to stop driving my car? Hardly. 

If a couple wants to make a personal decision about whether or not they want to see medical professionals of the opposite sex, that is their call. But they have absolutely no right to judge others for not making the same choice. To me, a medical professional is just that, _a professional_.


----------



## pailrider

Cletus said:


> Please, by all means, give us some useful information. Not anecdotes. I want numbers. I want to know how many of the millions of gynecological exams performed every year involve untoward behavior.
> 
> In short, I want to know if I'm more likely to be killed by an asteroid than I am to have my wife victimized by a male OB/GYN.
> 
> You've pretty much proven you believe the risk is higher. I think we all agree. What you seem utterly incapable of understanding here is that most of us find the likelihood of the being so victimized so low that it doesn't rate a blip on our personal radar.
> 
> It is a well studied phenomenon that people are very bad at assessing personal risk. Without some numbers to back up your anecdotes, you're guilty of exactly the same sin.


People always believe it will never happen to them....Hello!

LOL you need statistics, says it all, why put yourself at risk when alternatives are available, hey ho' some will never learn until, someone says -- I told you so....


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## pailrider

Created2Write said:


> Exactly.
> 
> They say you're more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the airport, than be in an actual plane crash. Does that mean I'm going to stop driving my car? Hardly.
> 
> If a couple wants to make a personal decision about whether or not they want to see medical professionals of the opposite sex, that is their call. But they have absolutely no right to judge others for not making the same choice. To me, a medical professional is just that, _a professional_.


Ah the big difference would you know, unless it came to someones attention. Agreed personal choice, why risk!

Of course there is nothing to worry about professional doctors their sex drive was removed by medical training lol Hello!

Below is one of thousands...

Wootton Bassett doctor who used spycam watch to film intimate examinations is banned from profession | Mail Online


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## lenzi




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## I Notice The Details

Lenzi....you hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## pailrider

I Notice The Details said:


> Lenzi....you hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sorry friend I hit the nail on the head.... of course this never happens lol, does it....

Sex abuse medic struck off register « This Is Jersey

40 More People Come Forward in Doctor Rape Case | FOX8.com

Of course' these news links are false, or are they...

Fitness to practise hearing for Altrincham doctor (From Messenger Newspapers)

Thousand like this, my nail is bigger than yours imo!


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## MissFroggie

CouldItBeSo said:


> I kill all spiders I see in my apartment. I just hate spiders even though they are beneficial. Some say *it will bring you eight years of bad luck* so I probably have my whole life worth of bad luck. Though when I was a kid I caught a special looking spider alive that had some green/red pattern in its rear and we brought it to the university biology department in a glass container and it happened to be a totally new never seen species. I don't know why I told all this since I hate spiders.


Ah, my whole life explained in one unexpected sentence...I'm not sure I'll be alive to see the bad luck run out so I'd better just brace myself for it...and keep killing the scary little runners since I'm already cursed until 2235


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## lenzi

MissFroggie said:


> Ah, my whole life explained in one unexpected sentence...I'm not sure I'll be alive to see the bad luck run out so I'd better just brace myself for it...and keep killing the scary little runners since I'm already cursed until 2235


Spiders are good for the environment.

They eat bugs. 

Most spiders are harmless to humans.


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## MissFroggie

pailrider said:


> Whatever, but in the animal kingdom a male will kill, to protect his mate from interference from the opposite gender. Humans have been known to do the same, haven't you read the news lol.


Yeah yeah and it happens the other way around too - haven't you seen the well-known documentaries 'Fatal Attraction' and 'Misery' .... there are LOADS more too!!! Aaaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!! :rofl:



pailrider said:


> *People always believe it will never happen to them*....Hello!
> 
> LOL you need statistics, says it all, why put yourself at risk when alternatives are available, hey ho' some will never learn until, someone says -- I told you so....


Since you disagree with this because you clearly DO think it WILL happen, isn't this a contradiction to say people ALWAYS think the opposite? Or was I misunderstanding - perhaps the key word in the sentence was not 'always' but the word 'people'?? Are you human or was that why the whole being part of the animal kingdom came into this? This is getting creeeeeepy...and kinda cool....let me guess what kind of animal you are...a raccoon perhaps? That'd be pretty cool! But, alas, too cute. What about some kind of monkey - ah, no, I've heard they do not use computers, only typewriters...I got it honey, a badger perhaps? Oops, slight typo...I meant 'honey badger'? They are soooo cute...hang on a sec...think I just found a documentary with you in it? Is this you??? Is it??? Is it???? Pleeeeeeaaaasssseee tell me! You totally rock if it _is_ you...you don't never go messin' with no honey badger y'all...or this is what you'll get....aaaarrrrggggghhhhhh

The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (original narration by Randall) - YouTube



pailrider said:


> Wake up call, mind I'm flogging a dead horse showing you real life situations..


I can't find a documentary about a honey badger flogging a dead horse...shame


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## MissFroggie

I am beginning to agree with Pailrider - he is at last getting it through my head how to work things out in this world of technology and quotes and without any statistics at all, I can use these articles to improve all of our lives and keep us safe and happy.

First up, I'm getting rid of the dishwasher first thing in the morning (if I survive that long)...

Woman dies in freak dishwasher accident | Mail Online

...but apparently ALL white goods are dangerous:

Man fell to his death in freak accident as he lowered a fridge out of a block of flats using a rope | Mail Online

So...you're right Pailrider...hospitals are dangerous...no thanks to an MRI scan...I'm never even going to chum a mate to the hospital either...

Boy, 6, Killed in Freak MRI Accident - ABC News

I'm NEVER going to Florida - it's too dangerous!

Florida, Florida, Florida | Freaky Florida: 15 Weird News Stories for the 500th Anniversary of the State’s Discovery | TIME.com

No more pruning roses either...who do you get to help you with this one???? Not medical professionals obviously since we already know they're all a bunch of perverted weirdos...then again, I'd like to know _where_ exactly she was growing her roses???? 

Woman gets slug stuck in vagina from thefreaky.net

Then again, being a man can be just as dangerous...

Testicle Eating Fish Warning from thefreaky.net

Buildings ARE dangerous - keep well away from them ALL!

â€˜Fryscraperâ€™ melts cars from thefreaky.net

I'm not sure which is more dangerous here, pubs or EATING...yeah, let's go with eating...STOP IT AT ONCE!!!! It's a very real risk!

http://browse.feedreader.com/c/The_...Bizarre_Stories_Odd_News_The_Freaky/515316407

And I'll finish with some relationship/dating advice for all you ladies out there - STOP HOLDING IT IN!!! This news article PROVES that ALL men MUST be turned on by farting!

Man turned on by farts from thefreaky.net

Be safe everyone and please please listen to me - this is serious and if you don't do exactly as I advise it will be on your head and I'll shout, "I told you so, ner ner nah ner ner!"


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## Created2Write

No one has said that it "never" happens, pailrider. If you want to live your life in fear and paranoia, then fine. But, by that logic, you should never let your spouse leave the house and mingle with the opposite sex under any circumstances whatsoever. Moreover, you should chain yourself into your house as well, lest some random woman smile at you and you're overcome with your sexual urges and ravage her in the alley way. You know, since none of us has any sexual control.


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## MissFroggie

Hey bestie, Pailrider - is this a video of a relative of yours? Let me know what you think of my posts tonight, but only after you've watched all of this video of your relative  Enjoy! 

Badgers | 10 Hours - YouTube


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## pailrider

MissFroggie said:


> I am beginning to agree with Pailrider - he is at last getting it through my head how to work things out in this world of technology and quotes and without any statistics at all, I can use these articles to improve all of our lives and keep us safe and happy.
> 
> First up, I'm getting rid of the dishwasher first thing in the morning (if I survive that long)...
> 
> Woman dies in freak dishwasher accident | Mail Online
> 
> ...but apparently ALL white goods are dangerous:
> 
> Man fell to his death in freak accident as he lowered a fridge out of a block of flats using a rope | Mail Online
> 
> So...you're right Pailrider...hospitals are dangerous...no thanks to an MRI scan...I'm never even going to chum a mate to the hospital either...
> 
> Boy, 6, Killed in Freak MRI Accident - ABC News
> 
> I'm NEVER going to Florida - it's too dangerous!
> 
> Florida, Florida, Florida | Freaky Florida: 15 Weird News Stories for the 500th Anniversary of the State’s Discovery | TIME.com
> 
> No more pruning roses either...who do you get to help you with this one???? Not medical professionals obviously since we already know they're all a bunch of perverted weirdos...then again, I'd like to know _where_ exactly she was growing her roses????
> 
> Woman gets slug stuck in vagina from thefreaky.net
> 
> Then again, being a man can be just as dangerous...
> 
> Testicle Eating Fish Warning from thefreaky.net
> 
> Buildings ARE dangerous - keep well away from them ALL!
> 
> â€˜Fryscraperâ€™ melts cars from thefreaky.net
> 
> I'm not sure which is more dangerous here, pubs or EATING...yeah, let's go with eating...STOP IT AT ONCE!!!! It's a very real risk!
> 
> Man dies in pub eating contest from thefreaky.net
> 
> And I'll finish with some relationship/dating advice for all you ladies out there - STOP HOLDING IT IN!!! This news article PROVES that ALL men MUST be turned on by farting!
> 
> Man turned on by farts from thefreaky.net
> 
> Be safe everyone and please please listen to me - this is serious and if you don't do exactly as I advise it will be on your head and I'll shout, "I told you so, ner ner nah ner ner!"



Don't worry it will never happen to you,,,will it.

Never acknowledge others were abused, just in case its an admission of guilt on oun behalf, in other words, been there and done it, cant accept women had a sexual abuse problem, from the medical profession, blind brainwashed and freaky helloooo!!


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## Created2Write

I'm no longer following pailrider. His posts make no sense at all.


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## skype

Created2Write said:


> I'm no longer following pailrider. His posts make no sense at all.


+1. Do you think that he meant his username to be palerider? Every time I see one of his posts I think of a pail perched on a horse.


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## I Notice The Details

Created2Write said:


> I'm no longer following pailrider. His posts make no sense at all.


:iagree:


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## lenzi

Yet people keep posting to, and bumping this useless thread.

If people stopped responding, guess what would happen?

_*Do not write below this line! For office use ONLY..*_
__________________________________________________


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## Created2Write

The thread is entertaining. I'll let it die when it ceases to be so.


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## Cletus

Created2Write said:


> The thread is entertaining. I'll let it die when it ceases to be so.


You'll let it die when all of the men in the conversation tell you to let it die, and no sooner.


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## amanthatcares

the thought of some kind of abuse didnt even factor into the way i feel about the male gynecologist. i just think it looks bad, that it is inappropriate, and possibly unethical for a man to do these exams. i dont really have to have a reason, other than i dont like it, and i think its wrong. we can talk about facts and figures, but as i have seen on other forums that will not matter.

pretty sure the whole idea that woman should even have these exams so frequently was propagated by organizations like planned parenthood(which i completely abhore), that stand to benifit the most from such a transaction.

i also think that these exams introduce our young women to sex at an earlier age than was previous times and i think the proof is in the pudding, as we now have an extremely high rate of teenage pregnancy here in the US. how do exams equate to earlier sex? because of the modesty that is lost during such an exam.

the first thing God made after the fall in the garden was *clothes.*


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## Created2Write

Cletus said:


> You'll let it die when all of the men in the conversation tell you to let it die, and no sooner.



You're right. I stepped out of line. I should have asked permission to post after lenzi. I am, after all, only a woman. I don't have any say as to whether or not I can post. It might, after all, be inappropriate. I wouldn't want my husband to get jealous.


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## Created2Write

Right...because Adam and Eve being clothed in the Garden thousands of years ago is definitely a parallel to gynecological exams performed by experiences, education medical professionals.


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## lenzi




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## Created2Write

You do realize I was kidding, right? rofl


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## lenzi

Created2Write said:


> You do realize I was kidding, right? rofl


No I thought you were suddenly completely and utterly submissive to a bunch of strangers on the internet and you have agreed to do our bidding.

I was just in the middle of typing out your next set of orders.

It was going to be my favorite post of the day. 

Never mind


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## I Notice The Details

lenzi said:


>


I love this sign!!!!!!!!!


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## larry.gray

Created2Write said:


> If you want to live your life in fear and paranoia, then fine. But, by that logic, you should never let your spouse leave the house and mingle with the opposite sex under any circumstances whatsoever. Moreover, you should chain yourself into your house as well, lest some random woman smile at you and you're overcome with your sexual urges and ravage her in the alley way. You know, since none of us has any sexual control.


That sounds an awful lot like Saudi Arabia. You just forgot the cover you woman from head to toe whenever she goes out.


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