# Abusive Marriage



## JL39775

This is my first post and I'm needing to vent and maybe get advice. My marriage is so stressful and I want to leave and don't know how. I've been married for 17 years and have a 16 yr old son and 13 yr old daughter and my kids are the reason I'm sticking around. I think my wife is crazy, emotional, bossy, controlling and seems to love conflict. She tells me she doesn't want conflict but she starts trouble all the time. If she doesn't get her way I get in trouble. She constantly tell me what she wants from me and I do my best to swallow my pride when she upsets me and try to make her happy. This seems to work for a few hours then she returns to causing trouble. No matter how much I try and how much I give, it's never enough. She texts me non-stop at work and I respond telling her I'm busy or in a meeting and will talk when I get home and she get so angry. I'm a leader in a youth group and parents are always asking me questions. My wife give me hell if a mom asks me a questions. This youth group takes up 2 hours of my time each week and my wife tells me it take up too much time and I don't spend time with the family. So, I'm resigning to please her. My mother burned herself a few months ago and needed to be near a burn center after she was released from the hospital. I asked my mom to stay at my house since I live close to a burn center as she recovers. After 6 weeks, my mom got tired of hearing my wife fighting with me and talking bad about me to my mom. She would tell my mom how she hates when I talk to moms at the youth group and that it's inappropriate. Then she goes to the grocery store with my mom and hugs a male worker at the store. My mom was shocked that my wife was a hypocrite but stayed quite. My wife continued to trash talk me to my mom and my mom got tired of hearing bad things about me. As a result, my told me that my wife hugged the sales associate. I'm not the jealous type, but I ask my wife how she would feel if I hug a women and she said she would be very angry and would want to know who the woman was. Then I asked her why is it okay for her to hug the guy at the store. She told me it was no big deal and it was different. I'm only mad at the fact that I get yelled at if I talk to women even at a professional level but she's allowed to hug and talk to men. So that evening, my wife started a fight when I was sleeping. I asked her to leave me alone because i didn't want my mom to be uncomfortable and leave. She left the room and went into the kitchen where my mom was getting a midnight snack. My wife started blaming my mom for breaking up our marriage because my mom told me about the hug. My mom stayed quite and tried to mind her own business, then my wife told my mom f#ck you. My mom was upset and they started yelling. To make a long story short my wife cussed out my mom and grabbed her arms where she has burns and a skin graff in front of my kids. I almost called the cop. What's unbelievable is my wife said she didn't cuss my mom out or grabbed her and she is denying everything. My mom will never come back to my house and feels sorry for me and the kids. 

Our sex life is not an issue. My wife wants affection from me and when we have sex she is calm for a few hours then flips out out of the blue. I never know what I did wrong but I believe that she wants attention 24/7 and get mad when I'm busy. 

So, I live near Galveston and my neighborhood was flooded by Hurricane Harvey. My house was inches from flooding but by the grace of God my house did not flood. We evaluated and stayed with friends. While we were at our friends, my wife had no shame and behaved crazy in front of all my friends and their kids. My friends are trying not to take sides but they believe my wife needs help. My wife started fights for no reason, smacked me in the back of the head in front of everyone. My friends daughter was so afraid of my wife that she slept with her parents one night. When we returned home, I when out with my son to help neighbors clean up after the flood. I help for 5 days because and my wife starts fight everyday because she think family should come first and I'm not spending time with her. I agree, but my my house was spared and my neighbors need help. I only helped from 10 AM to 5 PM each day and still spent time at home. Anyway, my hostile marriage has been like this for 17 years. It's getting worse. Probably because I'm telling my wife I can't live like this much longer and I will divorce her if she continues to make me miserable.

My wife hasn't worked in 13 years so I will give my wife money for a lawyer and file for divorce this coming February when I have the money. I want to leave now and get an apartment. But, I'm scared and I don't know if I can pay for two households. I was curious how moving out worked out for someone on this forum. February can't come fast enough.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Your poor Mother. I typically believe in wife before parents but that is not ok at all. 

You need to leave, ASAP. Your wife needs to get a job NOW to help support herself. She may need to move and sell the home to split the equity. Don't do her any more favours. 

Your children need to know it is not ok and will not be tolerated.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Your poor Mother. I typically believe in wife before parents but that is not ok at all.
> 
> You need to leave, ASAP. Your wife needs to get a job NOW to help support herself. She may need to move and sell the home to split the equity. Don't do her any more favours.
> 
> *Your children need to know it is not ok and will not be tolerated*.


^
This, especially the bolded part. Setting the right example for your children should be your first priority.

Also, why would you give her money for a lawyer. As SGC said, don't do her any more favours.


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## Spicy

Go see a lawyer immediately. Get away from this whack job before she kills you or someone in your family.


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## Satya

Your wife sounds like she has a PD.


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## farsidejunky

@Uptown


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## Herschel

Damn, I was about to put out the Uptownsignal. Really, we do that so we can be lazy giving advice.

Dude, read up on Borderline Personality Disorder.


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## cc48kel

I would go talk with a lawyer.. Your kids will thank-you later!! This is not normal and she has something going on. Talk with a lawyer about your situation to see what your options are. Get joint custody and there may only be a few years of alimony.


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## JL39775

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Your poor Mother. I typically believe in wife before parents but that is not ok at all.
> 
> You need to leave, ASAP. Your wife needs to get a job NOW to help support herself. She may need to move and sell the home to split the equity. Don't do her any more favours.
> 
> Your children need to know it is not ok and will not be tolerated.


SlowlyGoingCrazy,

Thanks for the response. I've talked to my kids and told them many time that my wife and I are bad role models and our behavior is unacceptable. I let them know that it's normal for married couple to argue but within reason. I hope my wife and I are not cursing my kids and their future family. I pray they don't have a bad marriage. I try my best to talk to them and give them advice on how to handle situations about jealousy, to support their spouse, to be rational, try to be friendly to their future spouse, don't jump to conclusions and so on and so forth. Too bad my attempts to have a happy marriage has been a big failure. When my wife talks to my kids all she does is complain about me. They are old enough to know that something is wrong with their mom but they still love her and don't say much except mom please stop fighting. They know when I'm 5-10 minutes late from work and my wife starts yelling at me that she is the instigator. They know we might divorce soon and they tell me they think it's better that we divorce than stay together and fight. My kids are hurting more than I.

I like the advice others gave about stop doing her favors. The next time my wife starts a fight, I will remind her it's unacceptable and the kids and I will not toloerate it any longer and I'm out the door. I have enough money to get a retainer for a lawyer for myself. Since I'm not doing her anymore favors, she will have to find a way to get a lawyer. I live in Texas so I don't think she will qualify for alimony. I have no issues paying child support. I'm hoping for joint custody unless she shows an unhealthy relationship with the kids. 

My wife shows no mercy even in front of friends. My wife is now angry at most of our friends because she thinks they are taking my side. They basically told her that they witness her behavior towards me over three days and they think it's unhealthy for my family. As a result, she is in denial and now hates them. My friends are supportive and I do have a place to stay. But with other friend displaced from Hurricane Harvey, now is not a good time to ask for a place to stay. 

My wife hates my mom and hates my friends. The way she treats me, I feel she hates me even though she says she loves me. She wants me to choose her over my mom and friends. I don't want to make that choice. It's a sad situation for my wife and I.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Your Mom must be a strong woman for not punching your wife in the face after just hearing the things your wife says about you. I have a son, I don't care if he's 50, any woman speaks like that to me about him I'm gonna .. well go postal 

In a healthy relationship the wife should be put before the Mother and friends. This is not a healthy relationship. They are seeing what is being done to you and want to help. Sounds like you'll have moral support when you leave. That can be priceless.

I feel awful for what you are going through. I think it's a great decision to let her worry about her own lawyer and expenses. She's had years of your support when she's put you through hell. Time for her to see the consequences of her actions.


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## Uptown

JL, I agree with @*Farside* and @*Herschel* that you are describing classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I also agree with @*Satya* that the BPD symptoms might be sufficiently severe as to constitute a full-blown PD -- a determination that only a professional can make. Although you cannot diagnose your W's issues, you should find it easy to spot strong BPD symptoms when they occur. There is nothing nuanced or subtle about them.

Specifically, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, "bossy," easily triggered temper tantrums, verbal and physical abuse, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (hating you) -- are warning signs for BPD.



> My wife hates my mom and hates my friends.


This behavior is called "black-white thinking." Like a young child, a BPDer is too emotionally immature to be able to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate). A BPDer therefore has great difficulty tolerating ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships. 

She therefore will categorize everyone close to her as _all good_ (i.e., "white" or "with me") or _all bad_ (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. This B-W thinking also will be evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." Because a BPDer's close friends eventually will be "split black," it is unusual for a BPDer to have really close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away).



> I feel she hates me even though she says she loves me.


A full-blown narcissist or sociopath would be incapable of loving you. A BPDer, however, is different. Like young children, BPDers are able to love but -- due to their inability to process and handle strong mixed feelings -- they often will "split off" their feelings of love (or hate), putting them entirely out of reach of their conscious minds. This "splitting" is the black-white thinking discussed above. 

Hence, although the love is still there, a BPDer can be completely out of touch with it (at a conscious level) for days or weeks. Moreover, a BPDer loves in the very immature way that a young child is able to love. This type of love falls far short of what is needed to sustain a mature adult relationship like a marriage.



> My wife wants affection from me and when we have sex she is calm for a few hours then flips out out of the blue.


If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly craves intimacy and strong emotions like nearly everyone else does. But she has such a fragile ego and weak self identity that she cannot tolerate intimacy for very long before starting to feel suffocated and controlled by you. She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. This is why the worst fights typically will start right after an intimate evening or in the middle of a great vacation. With BPDer, the very WORST behavior usually occurs immediately after the very BEST of times.



> This seems to work for a few hours then she returns to causing trouble.


Because a BPDer is emotionally unstable, it is impossible to build up a store of good will that you can later draw on during the hard days. As you say, your appeasements and sacrifices "work for a few hours." A BPDer's perception of your intentions is dictated by the intense feeling she is experiencing at this very moment. The result is that your attempts to build up a lasting store of good will and appreciation (for your many sacrifices) is as futile as trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea. It is certain to be washed away by the next tide of intense feelings flooding her mind.



> No matter how much I try and how much I give, it's never enough.


If she is a BPDer, she has such a terrible feeling of emptiness that NOTHING is likely to make her happy for more than a few days. With my BPDer exW, for example, a very expensive gift usually would produce happiness for a few days -- or a week if it cost me several thousand dollars. Then she was right back to "What have you done for me lately?" A BPDer is a bottomless pit of need. Hence, trying to make her "happy" is as pointless as trying to fill up the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun.



> When my wife talks to my kids all she does is complain about me.


If she is a BPDer, she usually views you as "The Perpetrator" and herself as "The Victim." This occurs because BPDers typically have a stunted emotional development that is frozen at about age four -- with the result that they never had an opportunity to develop a strong sense of who they are. To the extent that a BPDer has a sense of self, it is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Because a BPDer keeps a death grip on that false self image, she will seek frequent "validation" of it being true.

During the courtship period, a BPDer will receive that validation from her view of you as the rescuer who has arrived to save her from unhappiness. Because you are "The Rescuer," the implication is that she must be "The Victim" you are so intent on rescuing. 

Following the courtship period -- when her infatuation no longer holds her two fears at bay -- a BPDer will start perceiving of you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune. Regardless of whether you are "The Rescuer" (her perception when splitting you white) or "The Perpetrator" (her perception when splitting you black), you are satisfying her deep need for validation of being "The Victim."



> She would tell my mom how she hates when I talk to moms at the youth group and that it's inappropriate.... She wants me to choose her over my mom and friends.


A BPDer's greatest fear is abandonment. BPDers therefore typically exhibit irrational jealousy over harmless events -- and will attempt to isolate their partners away from all close friends and family members. In that way, she gets you all to herself. She also greatly reduces the chance you will get supportive comments from family or friends -- e.g., "That's the most ridiculous explanation I've ever heard.... why do you tolerate it?"



> So, I'm resigning to please her.


Big mistake. Please listen to @*Slowly*, who advised you that it is _"Time for her to see the consequences of her actions."_ If your W is a BPDer, it is important -- for her welfare as well as your own -- that she be held fully accountable for her own bad decisions and bad behaviors. Like a young child, a BPDer will have an incentive to improve her behavior only if she is allowed to suffer the logical consequences of her actions. Your enabling behavior therefore is harmful because it destroys all opportunities she has to confront her own issues. You are enabling her to behave like a spoiled selfish brat and GET AWAY WITH IT.



> Then she goes to the grocery store with my mom and hugs a male worker at the store.... She told me it was no big deal and it was different.


If she is a BPDer, she likely has one set of rules for herself and another set for you and everyone else. Moreover, because she is unstable, the set of rules she applies to herself will change depending on whatever intense feeling she is experiencing at this very moment.



> I think my wife is crazy.


Perhaps so. But that is NOT what you're describing here. A person who is "crazy" or "psychotic" has lost touch with _physical_ reality -- e.g., believing that the TV news announcer is speaking directly to her personally. In contrast, BPDers typically see physical reality just fine. What is distorted is their perception of your intentions and motivations. This is why full-blown BPD is said to be a "thought disorder."



> She wants attention 24/7 and gets mad when I'm busy.


If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly HATES to be alone. The reason is that, like a very young child, a BPDer has such a weak self identity that she sorely needs to be around a person having a strong self image -- to help center and ground her and to provide her with a stable sense of direction and goals. But when YOU DO EXACTLY THAT -- i.e., provide the grounding and identity she sorely needs -- she will feel like you are controlling and suffocating her. 

The result, as I noted earlier, is that a BPDer will often create fights -- over absolutely nothing at all -- to push you away so as to get breathing space. And this is why -- as you must already realize -- you essentially have a parent/child relationship with this woman, not a husband/wife relationship.



> My wife cussed out my mom and grabbed her arms where she has burns and a skin graff in front of my kids. I almost called the cop.


BPDers have a stunted emotional development. Hence, like a young child, a BPDer is unable to regulate her own emotions. Indeed, this is such a central feature of BPD that a large share of the psychiatric community has been lobbying for over two decades to change its name to "Emotional Regulation Disorder." 

_"Intense, inappropriate anger"_ is one of the nine defining symptoms for BPD. If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that will TRIGGER a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in only ten seconds.

The result is that a BPDer usually needs intensive therapy to learn how to regulate her own emotions, how to self sooth, how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts"; how to trust others; how to be "mindful" (i.e., to remain in the room instead of escaping in daydreams to the past or future); how to perceive "object constancy" (i.e., to see that your personality is essentially unchanged day to day); and how to avoid black-white thinking by learning to tolerate strong mixed feelings, uncertainties, ambiguities, and the other gray areas of interpersonal relationships.



> My hostile marriage has been like this for 17 years. It's getting worse.


BPDers typically become increasingly abusive over time because their abandonment fear and engulfment fear will grow. As the years go by, the BPDer increasingly fears abandonment as she sees her body aging and sees her partner building stronger personal boundaries to protect his sanity. At the same time, she likely will become increasingly resentful of your inability to make her happy (an impossible task).



> I'm telling my wife I can't live like this much longer and I will divorce her if she continues to make me miserable.


As noted earlier, a BPDer's greatest fear is abandonment. Hence, if your W is a BPDer, her behavior likely will get extremely nasty very quickly if she believes you are serious about divorcing her. My BPDer exW, for example, called the police and had me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. When I got out of jail 3 days later, I learned that she had obtained a restraining order that barred me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce in my State).



> JL.


If you really have been living with a BPDer for 17 years, it is not surprising that you feel like you may be "going Postal" or a bit crazy. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater crazy-making effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths. 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners feel like they might be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning. 



> I was curious how moving out worked out for someone on this forum. February can't come fast enough.


Moving out was one of the best things I have ever done. But, as I said above, I did not choose to do it. Instead, I was handcuffed and removed by the police. If your W is a BPDer, you likely will be surprised how quickly you start feeling like your old self.

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, verbal abuse, and temper tantrums.

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her.

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, JL.


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## Thor

You can't just tell your kids not to have a relationship like your marriage, you have to demonstrate to them it is unacceptable by actually doing something. In your case I think divorce is the right answer.

Realize that your kids will have the same kinds of relationships they experience at home. They will grow up to either be abusive or be victims of abuse. But, if you leave the marriage it will demonstrate to them that it is not ok to be in an abusive relationship.

Aside from that, you do not deserve to be in such a marriage as you are. You deserve not to be abused.

You do need to talk to a lawyer before you do anything else. There may be important steps to protect your assets and your custody of the children. When it comes to legal stuff, you can sink your own ship right from the start by doing something which seems logical or inconsequential. So do talk to a lawyer. Most will give a free 15-30 minute consultation where you can get basic questions answered. This is how they entice new clients, so take advantage of it. If you like the lawyer, hire him. If not, try out another.

Divorce is not a picnic for the kids, but they are better off having one parent whose home is healthy and safe rather than being full time in a crazy home like yours is now. The option which is not possible is you being married and having a healthy happy home for your kids. So don't get hung up on divorce being less than ideal. You can't have ideal.


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## GuyInColorado

Time to start sticking up for yourself. Go retain that attorney today and take command of this situation. Have the divorce papers drawn up and serve them to her next she goes postal. You can always stop the divorce later on, but I don't see that happening. You tell her you've put up with her toxic behavior far too long and the kids cannot be around this. You have to be miserable. This is no way to live. You can fix it, just divorce this woman ASAP. You'll find a better partner soon, you won't be alone for long.

I divorced a miserable woman with two kids under 5 years old almost 2 years ago and I have ZERO regrets! Tomorrow is not guaranteed, so live it up and make yourself happy.


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## arbitrator

*She wants a lawyer, then she pays for her own damned lawyer!

You've been through enough hell as it is without succumbing to those demands!*


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## Taxman

Sir, you know and your mom knows that your wife is mentally ill. You need to protect yourself in case this woman escalates. Asking for a divorce would likely result in an assault. Keep a Voice activated recorder in your shirt pocket at all times. This is in case she hurts herself and attempts to have you arrested for domestic violence. (My BF's ex, took a pair of panty hose, put three oranges down the leg, and hit herself sufficiently to bruise. Too bad for her as BF knew his STBX and her family. He had set up cams throughout the house and caught her prep and bruising. The judge charged her with perjury. The judge removed her from the home and instituted an RO.) See an attorney today, and get her out of your house.


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## Ghost Rider

My BPD radar also went off the charts when I read the OP. It sounds so much like my unfortunate marriage.


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## Diana7

Its sad that you have stayed for so long as her appalling behavior will have damaged the children as well. Soon they will be old enough to live with you full time if they choose, but in the meantime fight for full custody. I have no idea why you chose to marry her or have children with an abuser, but now is the time to act. 
Do what has been suggested and put hidden cameras and recording equipment around. Keep a detailed account of all of her abuse, threats, and violence. Go and see a lawyer and get advice. Once you start the divorce process her behavior will get worse and she will almost certainly try and turn the children against you and will probably make accusations against you. Fortunately, you have many people who can give evidence again her, who have seen how she acts.


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## Ghost Rider

I had also meant to advise the OP to go see the bpdfamily.com website. You may find good advice there but at the very least you will find out that you're not alone in dealing with this craziness. That website was for me a drink of water in the desert.


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## Silver Traveler

Hi, JL39775. Your story sounds very familiar. My first wife probably had Boarderline Personality, though she was never formally diagnosed. When she died after we had been married for eighteen years, I couldn't have even told you what my favorite color was.

To be fair, I grew up in a dysfunctional home and married her because she treated me the way my dad and brother did. I would have had problems in any relationship.

The single biggest thing I did to help myself was get involved in Codependents Anonymous. It helped me to re-establish my "self," to recognize and start holding boundaries, and to learn what healthy relationships look like.


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## SunCMars

Yikes.

I live with this women. She visits me sometimes. She is a smaller, less outrageous version of your wife.
Her visits....are not as often, lately..
When that women is not here, things are pretty good, well, somewhat OK. The eye of the hurricane.

You see, she is now old and running out of gas. That is all I dare to tell.

My eyes keep looking at the wall. Can I make it over the top?

Can I make it over the top with a fishing rod and tackle box? One in each hand.


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## JL39775

Uptown said:


> JL, I agree with @*Farside* and @*Herschel* that you are describing classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I also agree with @*Satya* that the BPD symptoms might be sufficiently severe as to constitute a full-blown PD -- a determination that only a professional can make. Although you cannot diagnose your W's issues, you should find it easy to spot strong BPD symptoms when they occur. There is nothing nuanced or subtle about them.
> 
> Specifically, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, "bossy," easily triggered temper tantrums, verbal and physical abuse, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (hating you) -- are warning signs for BPD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife hates my mom and hates my friends.
> 
> 
> 
> This behavior is called "black-white thinking." Like a young child, a BPDer is too emotionally immature to be able to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate). A BPDer therefore has great difficulty tolerating ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships.
> 
> She therefore will categorize everyone close to her as _all good_ (i.e., "white" or "with me") or _all bad_ (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. This B-W thinking also will be evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." Because a BPDer's close friends eventually will be "split black," it is unusual for a BPDer to have really close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel she hates me even though she says she loves me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A full-blown narcissist or sociopath would be incapable of loving you. A BPDer, however, is different. Like young children, BPDers are able to love but -- due to their inability to process and handle strong mixed feelings -- they often will "split off" their feelings of love (or hate), putting them entirely out of reach of their conscious minds. This "splitting" is the black-white thinking discussed above.
> 
> Hence, although the love is still there, a BPDer can be completely out of touch with it (at a conscious level) for days or weeks. Moreover, a BPDer loves in the very immature way that a young child is able to love. This type of love falls far short of what is needed to sustain a mature adult relationship like a marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife wants affection from me and when we have sex she is calm for a few hours then flips out out of the blue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly craves intimacy and strong emotions like nearly everyone else does. But she has such a fragile ego and weak self identity that she cannot tolerate intimacy for very long before starting to feel suffocated and controlled by you. She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. This is why the worst fights typically will start right after an intimate evening or in the middle of a great vacation. With BPDer, the very WORST behavior usually occurs immediately after the very BEST of times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This seems to work for a few hours then she returns to causing trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because a BPDer is emotionally unstable, it is impossible to build up a store of good will that you can later draw on during the hard days. As you say, your appeasements and sacrifices "work for a few hours." A BPDer's perception of your intentions is dictated by the intense feeling she is experiencing at this very moment. The result is that your attempts to build up a lasting store of good will and appreciation (for your many sacrifices) is as futile as trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea. It is certain to be washed away by the next tide of intense feelings flooding her mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how much I try and how much I give, it's never enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If she is a BPDer, she has such a terrible feeling of emptiness that NOTHING is likely to make her happy for more than a few days. With my BPDer exW, for example, a very expensive gift usually would produce happiness for a few days -- or a week if it cost me several thousand dollars. Then she was right back to "What have you done for me lately?" A BPDer is a bottomless pit of need. Hence, trying to make her "happy" is as pointless as trying to fill up the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When my wife talks to my kids all she does is complain about me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If she is a BPDer, she usually views you as "The Perpetrator" and herself as "The Victim." This occurs because BPDers typically have a stunted emotional development that is frozen at about age four -- with the result that they never had an opportunity to develop a strong sense of who they are. To the extent that a BPDer has a sense of self, it is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Because a BPDer keeps a death grip on that false self image, she will seek frequent "validation" of it being true.
> 
> During the courtship period, a BPDer will receive that validation from her view of you as the rescuer who has arrived to save her from unhappiness. Because you are "The Rescuer," the implication is that she must be "The Victim" you are so intent on rescuing.
> 
> Following the courtship period -- when her infatuation no longer holds her two fears at bay -- a BPDer will start perceiving of you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune. Regardless of whether you are "The Rescuer" (her perception when splitting you white) or "The Perpetrator" (her perception when splitting you black), you are satisfying her deep need for validation of being "The Victim."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She would tell my mom how she hates when I talk to moms at the youth group and that it's inappropriate.... She wants me to choose her over my mom and friends.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A BPDer's greatest fear is abandonment. BPDers therefore typically exhibit irrational jealousy over harmless events -- and will attempt to isolate their partners away from all close friends and family members. In that way, she gets you all to herself. She also greatly reduces the chance you will get supportive comments from family or friends -- e.g., "That's the most ridiculous explanation I've ever heard.... why do you tolerate it?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I'm resigning to please her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Big mistake. Please listen to @*Slowly*, who advised you that it is _"Time for her to see the consequences of her actions."_ If your W is a BPDer, it is important -- for her welfare as well as your own -- that she be held fully accountable for her own bad decisions and bad behaviors. Like a young child, a BPDer will have an incentive to improve her behavior only if she is allowed to suffer the logical consequences of her actions. Your enabling behavior therefore is harmful because it destroys all opportunities she has to confront her own issues. You are enabling her to behave like a spoiled selfish brat and GET AWAY WITH IT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then she goes to the grocery store with my mom and hugs a male worker at the store.... She told me it was no big deal and it was different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If she is a BPDer, she likely has one set of rules for herself and another set for you and everyone else. Moreover, because she is unstable, the set of rules she applies to herself will change depending on whatever intense feeling she is experiencing at this very moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think my wife is crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps so. But that is NOT what you're describing here. A person who is "crazy" or "psychotic" has lost touch with _physical_ reality -- e.g., believing that the TV news announcer is speaking directly to her personally. In contrast, BPDers typically see physical reality just fine. What is distorted is their perception of your intentions and motivations. This is why full-blown BPD is said to be a "thought disorder."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She wants attention 24/7 and gets mad when I'm busy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly HATES to be alone. The reason is that, like a very young child, a BPDer has such a weak self identity that she sorely needs to be around a person having a strong self image -- to help center and ground her and to provide her with a stable sense of direction and goals. But when YOU DO EXACTLY THAT -- i.e., provide the grounding and identity she sorely needs -- she will feel like you are controlling and suffocating her.
> 
> The result, as I noted earlier, is that a BPDer will often create fights -- over absolutely nothing at all -- to push you away so as to get breathing space. And this is why -- as you must already realize -- you essentially have a parent/child relationship with this woman, not a husband/wife relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife cussed out my mom and grabbed her arms where she has burns and a skin graff in front of my kids. I almost called the cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BPDers have a stunted emotional development. Hence, like a young child, a BPDer is unable to regulate her own emotions. Indeed, this is such a central feature of BPD that a large share of the psychiatric community has been lobbying for over two decades to change its name to "Emotional Regulation Disorder."
> 
> _"Intense, inappropriate anger"_ is one of the nine defining symptoms for BPD. If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that will TRIGGER a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in only ten seconds.
> 
> The result is that a BPDer usually needs intensive therapy to learn how to regulate her own emotions, how to self sooth, how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts"; how to trust others; how to be "mindful" (i.e., to remain in the room instead of escaping in daydreams to the past or future); how to perceive "object constancy" (i.e., to see that your personality is essentially unchanged day to day); and how to avoid black-white thinking by learning to tolerate strong mixed feelings, uncertainties, ambiguities, and the other gray areas of interpersonal relationships.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My hostile marriage has been like this for 17 years. It's getting worse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BPDers typically become increasingly abusive over time because their abandonment fear and engulfment fear will grow. As the years go by, the BPDer increasingly fears abandonment as she sees her body aging and sees her partner building stronger personal boundaries to protect his sanity. At the same time, she likely will become increasingly resentful of your inability to make her happy (an impossible task).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling my wife I can't live like this much longer and I will divorce her if she continues to make me miserable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As noted earlier, a BPDer's greatest fear is abandonment. Hence, if your W is a BPDer, her behavior likely will get extremely nasty very quickly if she believes you are serious about divorcing her. My BPDer exW, for example, called the police and had me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. When I got out of jail 3 days later, I learned that she had obtained a restraining order that barred me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce in my State).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you really have been living with a BPDer for 17 years, it is not surprising that you feel like you may be "going Postal" or a bit crazy. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater crazy-making effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths.
> 
> This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners feel like they might be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.
> 
> Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was curious how moving out worked out for someone on this forum. February can't come fast enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Moving out was one of the best things I have ever done. But, as I said above, I did not choose to do it. Instead, I was handcuffed and removed by the police. If your W is a BPDer, you likely will be surprised how quickly you start feeling like your old self.
> 
> I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.
> 
> Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, verbal abuse, and temper tantrums.
> 
> Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her.
> 
> I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, JL.
Click to expand...

Uptown,


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## JL39775

Diana7 said:


> Its sad that you have stayed for so long as her appalling behavior will have damaged the children as well. Soon they will be old enough to live with you full time if they choose, but in the meantime fight for full custody. I have no idea why you chose to marry her or have children with an abuser, but now is the time to act.
> Do what has been suggested and put hidden cameras and recording equipment around. Keep a detailed account of all of her abuse, threats, and violence. Go and see a lawyer and get advice. Once you start the divorce process her behavior will get worse and she will almost certainly try and turn the children against you and will probably make accusations against you. Fortunately, you have many people who can give evidence again her, who have seen how she acts.


I didn't want to marry her but we got pregnant and I didn't like the thought of not being part of my son's life everyday so I married her. We had a daughter a few years later. Staying for the kids was a bad idea. They suffered enough and I should have left. The toxic house is also my fault for sticking around too long.


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## Uptown

> I believe my wife has BPD. She lost her oldest sister to cancer when she was young, then her parents divorced.


JL, if your W is a BPDer (i.e., is on the upper third of the spectrum), the death of her sister and the divorce certainly did not help the situation. Those events, however, likely did not cause her to have strong BPD traits. Because a BPDer's emotional development typically is frozen at age 3 or 4, the current view is that it likely is caused by a combination of genetics plus a childhood trauma occurring before age 5. Importantly, this is a theory, not a proven fact. Nobody has yet proven to a certainty what it is that causes strong BPD symptoms.



> Her dad was an alcoholic and would physically abuse my wife's mom and brothers. My wife never told me that she was abused but she witnessed family members get abused then watch cops beating the crap out of her dad and taking him to jail often.


Well, if she does exhibit strong BPD traits, you already have a good idea which side of her family she likely got the problem from. Significantly, a recent large-scale American study found that 70% of full-blown BPDers report they had been abandoned or abused in childhood. Although most abused children do not develop full-blown BPD, such abuse nonetheless greatly increases their risk for doing so.



> My wife would go to counseling on her own to work on her abandonment issues but she is in denial and stop going.


If she is a high functioning BPDer as you suspect, it is extremely unlikely she will be willing to remain in therapy long enough -- and work hard enough -- to make a real difference in her behavior. To succeed in therapy (i.e., to acquire the missing emotional skills I mentioned above), she must have sufficient self awareness and ego strength. It is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have both. I've not seen any supported figures but my guess is that less than 1% of HF BPDers have both of those attributes.



> I stopped marriage counseling because I worked so hard on doing what the counselor coached us on but my wife didn't try.


Good decision. Although MCs usually are well trained to teach improved communication, a BPDer's problems go far beyond the lack of simple communication skills. 



> She always told me she wasn't ready to do what we were taught.


If she is a BPDer, she likely spoke the truth. She was far too immature to be able to take advantage of the communication skills taught by MCs. Until the missing emotional skills are acquired -- which requires years of therapy -- you are married to a woman with the emotional development of a young child, no matter how well you communicate with her.



> I felt I was wasting time going to the weekly session.


Like you, I took my exW to three different MCs and found it to be a total waste of time. Indeed, I also paid for my exW to have weekly therapy sessions -- for 15 years -- with six different psychologists. Sadly, she lacked the self awareness and ego strength to benefit from all of that expensive therapy. The result is that it did not make a dent in her bad behavior. Not one dent.



> I thought about asking her to make an appointment with a counselor and I would go with her to support her but I'm ready to give up. I don't know what to do.


 JL, I offer several suggestions: *First*, if you decide to go ahead with your plans to separate this February, I suggest you read _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_. If your W is a BPDer, a divorce will get very nasty very quickly. It also would be prudent to start carrying a VAR in your pocket when you're around her to record her outbursts, particularly those done in front of your children.

*Second*, start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com, which offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The one that likely will be most helpful is the _"Co-Parenting after the Split"_ board. If your W is a BPDer, she likely will become so vindictive that she will engage in parental alienation, trying to turn your children against you. Indeed, you've already witnessed her doing exactly that. It almost certainly will get much worse when you walk out.

*Third*, while you're at BPDfamily, read the articles: Doing What's Best for the Kids and Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD and Leaving a Partner with BPD. At other websites, I recommend these online articles: Fathers Divorcing, and High Risk Parenting, and Pain of Breaking Up, and Divorcing a Narcissist.

*Fourth,* for tips on how to establish and enforce strong personal boundaries, I recommend an online blog by a psychiatric nurse. It provides 20 tips to nurses on how they can best deal with obstinate BPDer patients. It is located at BPD on the Behavioral Unit. If you think you have it bad, remember that those psychiatric nurses have to deal with many BPDers for hours every work day.

*Fifth*, read an explanation of how we excessive caregivers get to be this way during our childhood. If you've been married to a BPDer for 17 years, you almost certainly are an excessive caregiver like me. The best explanation of how we got to be this way (that I've found) is Shari Schreiber's article, Do You Love to be Needed? Schreiber argues that, due to childhood dynamics with parents, our desire to be _needed _(for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be _loved_ (for the men we already are).

*Sixth*, if you believe your W has strong BPD traits, do not try to persuade her of that. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, let her therapist decide what to tell her. With high functioning BPDers, therapists usually are loath to tell them the name of their disordered behavior pattern.

*Finally*, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Indeed, since you posted yesterday afternoon, your thread has alrea


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## Fishnbuddy

This woman needs some medication she is too jealous of you and controlling don't let it happen stand up for yourself do what you want to do


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## Herschel

Simply put, this is a life long situation that she isn't likely to get help for, noris help really capable of "curing" her. You will always have to manage her and you have to determine if the rest of your life is worth it.


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## JL39775

What an evening I had last night. My friend called and ask if I could help him move furniture damaged from the flood water out of his house. Usually, my wife would complain that I care about friends more than family but she wasnt bothered that I helped our friend. I didn't get home until 8 PM and to my surprise it was peaceful in my house. Around 9:30 PM I went to my bedroom to lay down and go to sleep. My wife decide she wanted to watch tv in the bedroom which she never does. I asked if she could let me sleep and watch tv in the living room and she refused. So I got up and went into the den to watch tv since I wasn't going to get sleep. After an hour she came to me and said I could sleep in the bedroom now. After I laid down my wife was putting some t-shirts in one of my drawers and she noticed that a lot of t-shirts I received from all my races were gone. She asked me where the t-shirts went and I told her that I took them to Goodwill because I never wore them and they took up a lot of space in the drawer. She asked me when I got rid of them and I told her about two months ago. She didn't believe me since she just noticed. She kept questioning me and refused to believe it's been two months since I got rid of them. I asked her why is it bothering her. They are t-shirt I don't wear and there is no reason to get mad at me because I got rid of them. She kept pushing the issue and started arguing. I reminded her that I told her that I took the shirt to Goodwill the day i took them. I asked if she remembered asking me about the Goodwill tax receipt she found on the counter 2 months ago. What amazed me is her eyes lit up like she remembered then she went into a rage. I think she remembered and didn't want to admit that she was wrong. I can't understand why anyone can behave like this. My personality to be fair, give everyone the benefit of the doubt and treat others as they treat me. The problem I have is if someone [email protected] with me, I will be easy on them the first time but when they continue, I fight back harder. I was patient with my wife and she didn't stop when I asked her stop starting a fight several time. As a result, I verbally attacked her. I told her I wasn't going to take her abuse anymore. I said some ugly things that definitely didn't help the situation. Basically, I told her I'm going to see a lawyer, and after putting up with her abuse I no longer care if she has nothing after we divorce. I reminded her that she is going to lose her house, her health care, her easy life of staying home and not doing much. I told her that I'm glad she doesn't have income I wasn't going to give her money for her lawyer and I will try my best to get full custody of the kids. I also told her that for 17 years I put up with her abuse and I don't feel bad that I'm going to kick her to the curb. I know my behavior wasn't helping the situation but she makes me so mad. All she does is throw everything back at me saying it my fault we have problems. The weekend is here and I'm not looking forward to being at home


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## JL39775

Herschel said:


> Simply put, this is a life long situation that she isn't likely to get help for, noris help really capable of "curing" her. You will always have to manage her and you have to determine if the rest of your life is worth it.


I'm not putting up with this forever. I've been waiting until my 13 year old finishes high school. Unfortunately, as hard as I tried to wait until the kids move out, I'm starting to realize that I can't.


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## 3Xnocharm

JL said:


> I'm not putting up with this forever. I've been waiting until my 13 year old finishes high school. Unfortunately, as hard as I tried to wait until the kids move out, I'm starting to realize that I can't.


So you finally lost your sh!t on her, good for you. DO NOT WAIT, get this started now. As far as custody goes, talk with your kids. If your youngest is 13, they are well old enough to have a say in where they want to live. From what you described, I would bet they would want as little to do with their mother as possible. Just watch your back until you are able to be away from her... I dont trust her not to hurt you.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Plan something fun for you and the kids to get out of the house for a while. 

Remember that it takes two to fight. If she starts up, walk away. Leave. Go do something fun

I went and stayed at hotels sometimes just to avoid it. Can't fight with you if you aren't there. 

But do leave soon. You'll feel such a weight off you when you do.


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## GuyInColorado

Hell yeah! You're mad now. You're sticking up for yourself! You're no longer scared of the future or the unknown. Because you know anything is better than your current life.

Take the kid and stay with a family member or a good friend over the weekend. Hit up the attorney on Monday. It's ACTION time! She will be a wreck this weekend if you do this.


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## JL39775

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Plan something fun for you and the kids to get out of the house for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember that it takes two to fight. If she starts up, walk away. Leave. Go do something fun
> 
> 
> 
> I went and stayed at hotels sometimes just to avoid it. Can't fight with you if you aren't there.
> 
> 
> 
> But do leave soon. You'll feel such a weight off you when you do.




Friday, my wife and I fought again. I didn't tolerate the fight and told her I'm leaving to get away and have some drinks with my friends. She didn't want me to go and try to block me. I eventually got away and I met up with some friends. The whole evening my wife blew up my phone with text messages. I didn't read them but I saw a lot of cussing as I glanced at them as the notification came through. My friends noticed my phone blowing up but they understand my wife has issues. Around 9 PM my wife shows up and my friends wives took my wife to a separate room and talked. I'm not sure what was discussed but I think they try to play everything off and have a normal conversation about life in general. After a while, my wife left. However, she came back at midnight screaming that I need to come home. I was on my way out before she arrived so I gathered my belongings and headed home. I got home and she started fighting. I told her to leave me alone and I went to bed. She let me sleep without any incident. So, the next morning I woke up and decided that I want a peaceful weekend so I started massaging her back and legs. One thing led to another and we got intimate. After we finished I whispered in her ear, "let try our best to be nice to each other." Her attitude changed for the better and we got intimate two more times that day. This seems to be a temporary fix to her attitude. So, Saturday was peaceful. Sunday wasn't too bad. At times she would want to talk and try to open wounds. If I asked her not to cause trouble, her face would get so angry and she would explode. I asked her to please not be angry and calm down. I told her I'm not mad at her and I don't want to fight. She resisted and tried to manipulate me and yelled saying she wasn't going to our friend son's Confirmation we had planned to attend at church. I reminded her that she wants to do everything as a family so why are the rules changing. I told her to please get ready and go. After some time, she decided to go. 

She didn't want me to to hang out with friends Friday. I ignored her and told her I'm not putting up with her attitude and I will leave whenever she starts fighting. I think she tried hard to be nice to me this weekend because she knows there are consequences like when I left Friday evening after we fought


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Honestly I think you need to stop having sex with her. Your giving her the impression that she can treat you however she wants and a little sex will fix things right up. Stop, prove you're serious about leaving. 

Also be very careful about her blocking the door. Someone very close to me had that situation happen, he eventually pushed her away from the door and she filed assault charges. The case went nowhere but cost him a lot and she used it against him in the custody battle. 

Keep a VAR on you at all times


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## Uptown

JL, thanks for giving us an update. I agree with all the other respondents that, if your W is a BPDer as you believe, you are at risk of being hurt or arrested as long as you remain with her. Because a BPDer's greatest fear is abandonment, you have no idea what she is capable of doing when she realizes you are serious about leaving her. My exW, for example, did things (e.g., having me arrested) that I never would have imagined she was capable of doing. 

This is why *Slowly* and I have encouraged you to carry a VAR in your pocket when you are interacting with her -- so as to record her outbursts. It also would be prudent to immediately consult with an attorney to determine whether your moving out will appear to be "abandonment of the family" when you fight for custody in family court. You may be advised to take your two children with you when you move out. Of course, the sooner you move out, the safer you will be.


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## turnera

Don't believe she has forgotten your 'threat' of the other day. It's probably driving her every move now - her certainty that you will abandon her and ruin her. You'd better keep a VAR on you at all times and I would suggest installing some cameras in your home for when she tries to have you arrested for violence. My husband owns an electronics company in Houston, if you want, I can hook you up with him.


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## JL39775

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Honestly I think you need to stop having sex with her. Your giving her the impression that she can treat you however she wants and a little sex will fix things right up. Stop, prove you're serious about leaving.
> 
> 
> 
> Also be very careful about her blocking the door. Someone very close to me had that situation happen, he eventually pushed her away from the door and she filed assault charges. The case went nowhere but cost him a lot and she used it against him in the custody battle.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep a VAR on you at all times




Anyone recommend a good VAR app for the iPhone?


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## JL39775

It's been five days and my wife has been peaceful. I'm not sure how she is doing it but I'm glad that We're not stressed out and the kids don't have to put up with my wife and I arguing. I know she's on medication but I don't think she has been taking them consistently in the past. Maybe she has lately and they are kicking in. Only time will tell. In the past, I told her that I don't love her. Since we've been peaceful, yesterday, she asked if I love her and I told her it will take time before I can answer. I've given her the same answer in the past which always resulted in a fight. However, yesterday was different. She had a disappointed look on her face but stayed quite. Let's see how long this last. I know my wife and she has a short fuse. I'm going to enjoy this while I can.


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## cma62

Sorry you are dealing with this in your marriage. 
You will walk on eggshells the rest of your marriage if you stay

You will always have to be the adult....as your wife's emotional maturity is on a child like level.

No amount of reasoning will ever be enough to explain and get through to her.

There is a popular saying regarding BPD 's....." I hate you, don't leave me"

It seems from your last post your W is exhibiting this very behaviour. I think you have to abandon the mindset of " if I'm nice to her she will come around".....if only it were that simple.

Menopause can exacerbate BPD symptoms and traits.....so if you decide to stay, be prepared.

Enjoy the peace while you can and use this time to plan and execute what you want for your future, because as you know, it's only a matter of time before she blows again


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## 3Xnocharm

JL39775 said:


> It's been five days and my wife has been peaceful. I'm not sure how she is doing it but I'm glad that We're not stressed out and the kids don't have to put up with my wife and I arguing. I know she's on medication but I don't think she has been taking them consistently in the past. Maybe she has lately and they are kicking in. Only time will tell. In the past, I told her that I don't love her. Since we've been peaceful, yesterday, she asked if I love her and I told her it will take time before I can answer. I've given her the same answer in the past which always resulted in a fight. However, yesterday was different. She had a disappointed look on her face but stayed quite. Let's see how long this last. I know my wife and she has a short fuse. I'm going to enjoy this while I can.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is a cycle. You are in the down time right now. Brace yourself because the crazy is coming back.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

never get comfortable in the peace times. It always comes back. 

Continue with your plan to leave and do not let her trick you into thinking anything has changed. 

She has not changed. Enjoy the quiet but be prepared for the storm. Don't waste any of this time putting your plan of leaving aside


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## JL39775

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> never get comfortable in the peace times. It always comes back.
> 
> 
> 
> Continue with your plan to leave and do not let her trick you into thinking anything has changed.
> 
> 
> 
> She has not changed. Enjoy the quiet but be prepared for the storm. Don't waste any of this time putting your plan of leaving aside




I'm not putting my guard down. I still plan to move forward and divorce. 


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## She'sStillGotIt

JL39775 said:


> My wife hasn't worked in 13 years so I will give my wife money for a lawyer and file for divorce this coming February when I have the money. I want to leave now and get an apartment. But, I'm scared and I don't know if I can pay for two households. I was curious how moving out worked out for someone on this forum. February can't come fast enough.


Why isn't she *working*? Your kids are old enough to have part time jobs of their own, so it's not like she needs to be home. You need to get her back out in the world working again ASAP or you're going to be stuck paying alimony.

Does she think you're just going to support her for the rest of her life whether you're married or not? She's delusional if she thinks that's the case.

Part of your master plan should be a J-O-B for the Missus.


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## JL39775

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Why isn't she *working*? Your kids are old enough to have part time jobs of their own, so it's not like she needs to be home. You need to get her back out in the world working again ASAP or you're going to be stuck paying alimony.
> 
> Does she think you're just going to support her for the rest of her life whether you're married or not? She's delusional if she thinks that's the case.
> 
> Part of your master plan should be a J-O-B for the Missus.




For years she told me she wants to go back to work but never took the initiative. She got fired from her last two jobs probably because she not good at completing tasks. At home she is all over the place and never finish anything she started. Dishes take hours...paying bills takes days. I do both in less than 30 minutes. I recently fired her from paying bills because I got calls at work about missed payments. We have the money to pay the bills, she is just not capable of paying them on time. I can't understand why it's hard for her since we have auto pay through my credit union.

Trust me, I want her to find a J-O-B. I've told her to go to school, get some training and go back to work so she can feel good about herself. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it. That's how I feel about my wife. 

I live in Texas so I don't thing she will get alimony since she can work. I think she will get $2400 per month in child support which is not much considering our lifestyle. She will have to work or the kids will want to stay with me.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Do pick up a VAR. Anyone know Texas recording laws? It may be essential come custody time. 

She's bad now, I'm afraid you have a long road ahead when you leave and have to deal with court and custody and visits. Leaving is the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship. I would suggest having the police there when you take your stuff. Get important paperwork out, rent a storage unit now to begin removing important things before the bomb goes off. Tell your family and close friends and use their help. They want to help you, let them. 

The sooner you start, the better. The longer she thinks she can manipulate you into staying the worse it will be in the end.


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## aine

JL39775 said:


> Friday, my wife and I fought again. I didn't tolerate the fight and told her I'm leaving to get away and have some drinks with my friends. She didn't want me to go and try to block me. I eventually got away and I met up with some friends. The whole evening my wife blew up my phone with text messages. I didn't read them but I saw a lot of cussing as I glanced at them as the notification came through. My friends noticed my phone blowing up but they understand my wife has issues. Around 9 PM my wife shows up and my friends wives took my wife to a separate room and talked. I'm not sure what was discussed but I think they try to play everything off and have a normal conversation about life in general. After a while, my wife left. However, she came back at midnight screaming that I need to come home. I was on my way out before she arrived so I gathered my belongings and headed home. I got home and she started fighting. I told her to leave me alone and I went to bed. She let me sleep without any incident. So, the next morning I woke up and decided that I want a peaceful weekend so I started massaging her back and legs. One thing led to another and we got intimate. After we finished I whispered in her ear, "let try our best to be nice to each other." Her attitude changed for the better and we got intimate two more times that day. This seems to be a temporary fix to her attitude. So, Saturday was peaceful. Sunday wasn't too bad. At times she would want to talk and try to open wounds. If I asked her not to cause trouble, her face would get so angry and she would explode. I asked her to please not be angry and calm down. I told her I'm not mad at her and I don't want to fight. She resisted and tried to manipulate me and yelled saying she wasn't going to our friend son's Confirmation we had planned to attend at church. I reminded her that she wants to do everything as a family so why are the rules changing. I told her to please get ready and go. After some time, she decided to go.
> 
> She didn't want me to to hang out with friends Friday. I ignored her and told her I'm not putting up with her attitude and I will leave whenever she starts fighting. I think she tried hard to be nice to me this weekend because she knows there are consequences like when I left Friday evening after we fought
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



As a matter of interest what are your fights about exactly? On the face of it your story appears that she is being abusive to you but when I look again I wonder whether you are mistreating her. She raises an issue and your fob her off or shut her down, many men do this and is causes their wives to be frustrated and then become very exasperated until eventually there is an explosive row ( I know, my marriage is like this). 

What role do you play in this whole process? When someone has genuine concerns or matters to dicuss, you do not simply say, I am not tolerating it and going out. That is a passive aggressive move and one which will cause the death of your marriage.
Many men cannot take a lot of emotion from a woman (women are emotional creatures) and go away as they need time to think. Instead of shutting her down or fobbing her off would it not be better to say she has a point and let us discuss this tommorrow, this evening, etc.


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## aine

JL39775 said:


> It's been five days and my wife has been peaceful. I'm not sure how she is doing it but I'm glad that We're not stressed out and the kids don't have to put up with my wife and I arguing. I know she's on medication but I don't think she has been taking them consistently in the past. Maybe she has lately and they are kicking in. Only time will tell. In the past, I told her that I don't love her. Since we've been peaceful, yesterday, she asked if I love her and I told her it will take time before I can answer. I've given her the same answer in the past which always resulted in a fight. However, yesterday was different. She had a disappointed look on her face but stayed quite. Let's see how long this last. I know my wife and she has a short fuse. I'm going to enjoy this while I can.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 To tell a wife you don't love her is the same for her to tell you she doesn't respect you. It is soul destroying, you don't sound like the victim at all and sound incredibly callous tbh. It's like you are throwing hurtful **** at her to test her response, in other words baiting her, who does that to their spouse, a narcissist perhaps, you are definitely not the victim, you pretend to be.


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## JL39775

aine said:


> To tell a wife you don't love her is the same for her to tell you she doesn't respect you. It is soul destroying, you don't sound like the victim at all and sound incredibly callous tbh. It's like you are throwing hurtful **** at her to test her response, in other words baiting her, who does that to their spouse, a narcissist perhaps, you are definitely not the victim, you pretend to be.




Aine,

I hear you and understand what you’re saying. I never loved her from the start. When we are in a heated argument that keeps going for weeks, it’s hard for me to contain myself when she asks me if I love her. In those moments, the truth comes out. Maybe I’m mean for being truthful. I’m far from perfect and when someone is attacking me I usually have a bigger bite. I know that doesn’t help the situation.

On another note, it has been almost 2 weeks since we fought. However, this morning my wife was taking jabs at me. She said she talked to my mom yesterday. My mom told her she is praying for us and told her that she asked me to try to save the marriage. My wife asked me if it is true that my mom asked me to save the marriage. I don’t know if my response was mean, but I asked my wife that she should trust people and not question my mom’s integrity. My mom has no reason to lie. Then, my wife started asking me why I don’t respond to her text bombing I get while at work. I reminder her that I do response with “I’m in a meeting” or “I’m busy and will talk when I get home.” She blew up and started fighting. Her argument is I have time to respond to emails regarding the youth group I’m leading. I told her that I respond to emails while I’m commuting 45 minutes on the bus to work and home so it doesn’t interfere with my time I spend at home with the family. It didn’t make a difference. Good thing I had to run off to work and the fight was short lived. Hopefully, she’ll cool down before I get home.


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## 3Xnocharm

What exactly is it you are waiting for to divorce this woman?


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## Camper292000

Step back. Breathe. Get your head straight. Lot of emotions and lot of responding with emotions. Can you take a break for a few days maybe take the kids on a trip for the weekend or just you? 

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## JL39775

3Xnocharm said:


> What exactly is it you are waiting for to divorce this woman?




Divorce sounds financially horrible. I may be making up excuses, but I feel I need to save money so I can divorce and support two households during and after the divorce. My plan is to file and separate this coming February. I know I will pay child support after the divorce. I’m sure the court will make me pay more during the separation.

By the way, I came home yesterday and my wife didn’t continue the fight we had yesterday morning.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

There's never a good time to divorce. You'll be waiting forever if you try. 

Is she looking for a job yet? If you'll have to sell the home after divorce, start getting it ready now. Fix anything that needs it. Repaint, etc. 

Figure out how much support you will have to give her and make yourself a budget with what you have left over.


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## 3Xnocharm

JL39775 said:


> Divorce sounds financially horrible. I may be making up excuses, but I feel I need to save money so I can divorce and support two households during and after the divorce. My plan is to file and separate this coming February. I know I will pay child support after the divorce. I’m sure the court will make me pay more during the separation.
> 
> By the way, I came home yesterday and my wife didn’t continue the fight we had yesterday morning.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is she physically incapable of working?? If not then she will need to get a job and support herself, maintaining two households is not your responsibility. If she is just choosing not to work, then the court isnt going to just hand her your paycheck, she will likely get support for a certain length of time, then she is on her own. (aside from child support, anyway)


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## Thor

JL39775 said:


> Divorce sounds financially horrible. I may be making up excuses, but I feel I need to save money so I can divorce and support two households during and after the divorce. My plan is to file and separate this coming February. I know I will pay child support after the divorce. I’m sure the court will make me pay more during the separation.


Please please PLEASE talk to a qualified attorney where you live. You NEED good real information to make your decisions.

My experience and observations is that your thoughts on the finances is completely wrong. The more you have, the less you'll end up with after the divorce. Or, to be more precise, the more you have the more you'll have to give away.

You can always give her more money than the court requires.

The more you have, the more the lawyers are going to want to take, too.

The best time to get divorced is when you're already broke. No kidding. I think you're setting yourself up for a really bad outcome.


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## JL39775

Yesterday was my wedding anniversary. It’s hard to have an anniversary come up when you are heading for divorce. But, I took the high road and wanted to be nice since it’s been peaceful for two weeks. So, for three days I asked my wife we can go get dinner without the kids. I was trying to be nice considering how I feel about my wife. For two days she kept herself busy getting nothing done so we didn’t have dinner together. I stayed home Monday so I could take her out for lunch. We had a drink, lunch and a normal conversation. Then she started the interrogation. I ask if we can have a conversation without her questioning my involvement outside the house. She was pissed at me because last Saturday I volunteered at a conservation project to clean up a beach. When I got home at noon, my wife was still in bed. I told her that my participation at the beach cleanup didn’t interfere with our family time since she was asleep the whole time I was gone. I mention in my previous post that I lead a youth group. I’ve been embarrassed to mention that I’m a Scoutmaster for the Boy Scouts because I’m ashamed that I’m suppose to set a good example and my marriage is falling apart. Her main insecurities is that moms of my Boy Scouts are always asking me questions because they want they sons to be successful. Questions are as simple as what time do we meet for the beach clean up or camping trip. Others question may be about the tasks I delegate to adult leaders. I had several women committee members. My wife can’t stand the fact that I have to interact with them even on a professional level. So, her lack of support and attacks about the women got me pissed at lunch and I politely asked her if she could please stop starting trouble in a restaurant. I stayed silent as she continued. I was humiliated because three gentleman at the next table went silent and was hearing all this nonsense. So, I didn’t know what to do about our anniversary. I usually buy flowers but I didn’t. I bought her a card and basically wrote passage like:

I would love to grow old with you but...we fight at the time and I don’t know when we will have the next out bust

I would love to grow old with you because I love you...but there are days when I ask myself if I actually do or whether love is even enough to see us through. 

I would love to grow old with you...but you never consider my feeling, I’ll retreat inside my shell and cry endlessly in private, you’ll apologise and on and on it will go.

What an anniversary my wife had mixed emotions about the card then started a fight.

I’m probably a jerk for giving her the card. She complained about no flowers and I asked her what did she give me...nothing but a headache.

Thanks for hearing my rant.


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## 3Xnocharm

You seriously need to stop coddling her, and hoping she is going to change, because she isnt. Just move forward already.


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## RandomThoughts

Just my quick $0.02 for anyone reading this. I came up on this thread because I'm dealing with something similar. However, diagnosing psych disorders, especially online is dangerous. Reading the replies, I thought for sure I was in the same situation that my wife has BPD. However, doing a google search, there's sites that have tests online (yea I get they're not scientific) but they don't exactly match the criteria listed in this thread. So be careful and google around before coming to a conclusion.


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## JL39775

RandomThoughts said:


> Just my quick $0.02 for anyone reading this. I came up on this thread because I'm dealing with something similar. However, diagnosing psych disorders, especially online is dangerous. Reading the replies, I thought for sure I was in the same situation that my wife has BPD. However, doing a google search, there's sites that have tests online (yea I get they're not scientific) but they don't exactly match the criteria listed in this thread. So be careful and google around before coming to a conclusion.




I’m not sure what my wife has. But I’m sure she’s crazy. At least when it comes to me.


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