# Just had enough of the fighting...



## wannabe (Sep 29, 2013)

I'll post my entire story some day. But for now I just feel like telling someone who'll understand, that tonight, I've finally given up. 
I was ready to start the whole ordeal again for the umpteenth time over "the talk" again. We started getting ready for bed, kids were tucked away already. I'd just had a bath and so did she (not together, don't be silly! Lol). So I get into bed and lay there. She gets out of the bath and instead of coming to bed, she goes downstairs and starts catching up on her admin. Still, I waited for her to finish. I think she was waiting for me to fall asleep. An hour goes by and I hear her quietly coming up the stairs. She gets into bed, jumps straight out again and gets out the "no way in hell we're making love socks". I smile with myself. She gets into bed. Covers her whole body with the blankets even though it's cooking hot outside and in. The only thing exposed are her eyes and forehead. 
By now I know that she's just waiting on me to start at "it" again. I'm quickly thinking of new ways to start this topic off tonight. I couldn't think of a new way to start. She's still waiting on me to start. I reach over to switch the bedroom lights off. Lay there for 15 minutes in silence. Gave her a kiss; said goodnight and told her that she wins, , I'm done. I give up. 
She didn't say a word. Looked at me for a few seconds, very confused. Then started staring out into space. I waited for a few more minutes for her to utter something. Nothing came. I got up out of bed, came downstairs for a smoke and some coffee. Then decided I needed to tell someone. I started this thread. 
I just literally looked up now and see that she just put up some more of our wedding day pictures on display. I laughed. She's so quick to try and keep up appearances for the public. It's quite funny actually. I wish I had some more time to tell our whole story. I will. Someday. 
Right now I just feel so relieved and at the same time so incredibly sad too. Before I got out of bed now, she was already fast asleep. Wow! 
Is this what it feels like when you finally give up on trying any longer? So empty. Sad. Emotionless. Alone. Confused. At ease. Content. 
I just looked at the pictures she put up of us and noticed that she used the frame from one of the poems she wrote me before we got married. It was a beautiful poem about love and what she'll do for me and our love and how great full she was to have met me and never taking me for granted, etc. Laugh Out Loud. You couldn't write this sh!t. I decide I'm done trying and she gets rid of a poem she wrote me.Wow. 
PS: SSmall background. I'm 33. She's 35. Together for 13 years. Married for 8 of those. Basically sex starved ever since our wedding day. We have 2 beautiful baby girls. I love my wife; ; my kids; our little family so very much. 
I have no idea what tomorrow holds in store for me; for us. I won't be rejected another day in my life. I won't be lied to any longer. I will never again be made to feel like I'm SO very wrong for wanting to be close with my wife. My wife. Not some random woman I come into contact with daily. My wife. I will never again get secret panic attacks for fear of rejection again for every time I try and be intimate with her. I will never again apologise for wanting to be intimate with my gorgeous wife. I'll never again get mad at my beautiful daughters out of frustration for what their mother rejecting me yet again. I'm so done with it all. 
TAM has surely helped me mature enough and helped bring me to this place I'm at right now. I'm happy I found this forum. Now to see what tomorrow holds for us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Just want to say all the best. I was in that same place almost 4 years ago, standing at the start of a huge black hole that is very scary. Once you get to a certain point there is no going back back it takes massive strength to see it through. 

Only you know what is best for you, all I can say is that it won't be easy but one day it will all be OK again.

My story has ended well, did the hard work and suffered the pain but am now out the other side and in a blissful and compatible relationship. The pain and fear of years of rejection is slowly disappearing, it took a very strong man to help me get past it all and I love him with all I have.

All the very best to you.


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

Do you have a question?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Best of luck to you. I haven't been to this point in marriage but can relate due to other points in my life. Sometimes it is a relief to just accept and start walking away from situations that no longer benefit us.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Holland said:


> Just want to say all the best. I was in that same place almost 4 years ago, standing at the start of a huge black hole that is very scary. Once you get to a certain point there is no going back back it takes massive strength to see it through.
> 
> Only you know what is best for you, all I can say is that it won't be easy but one day it will all be OK again.
> 
> ...


How long has it been? ( Just wondering how quickly the old "armor" of rejection, and pain and anger fades away ).


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Your frustrations really come out in the part of the story you have told.

Sorry you are in this situation. 

While my personal experience is not as far gone as yours seems to be, I'm afraid that this is the path I am on at the moment. I'm here trying to find out anything I can to reverse the situation.

Good luck to you.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

treyvion said:


> How long has it been? ( Just wondering how quickly the old "armor" of rejection, and pain and anger fades away ).


treyvion it has been a long process and I had some IC along the way. I separated about 4 years ago, spent 12 months trying to get my life in some sort of order and did not date.
Then spent the next 12 months dating casually and having plenty of NSA sex, during this time I did not even realise that I had carried over issues about rejection because I was never rejected at this stage. 
Then I met Mr H and we have been together for 2 years now. It was not till our relationship got really serious that I started to have problems arise from the past, if he were ever too tired I would read this as rejection and then spiral into a bad place. Mind you we are both very HD and have sex daily. But even so I had massive issues from my past. 
Mr H has been amazing, we talk, he listens and understands and I feel safe. He wrote me a letter that I keep next to my bed, it says that he loves me deeply but sometimes is just tired, to let him rest and then he can give me his full attention soon. It helped me get my head straight and know that I am not being rejected but am living in a normal relationship where sometimes people are too tired for sex.

Anyway as I said it has been a slow process and the love and support of a very strong and emotionally intelligent man has changed my life completely.


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## MotoDude (Sep 15, 2010)

I am in the same path, I stay because I thought this is how marriage life is and are. Until I found TAM, it open up my eyes and what I been missing. Once or twice a month aint gonna cut it for me and I'm also tired of asking and no wanting from her...

I will be walking the same path!


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## Baablacksheep (Aug 29, 2013)

Wannabe, so so sorry to hear you are going through this too. Whatever you do don't blame your kids. Trust me man, from my own experience, it makes things worse. Most likely they are 100% innocent and it's not their fault. I learned almost 2 late how to separate the 2 things.

Something's wrong that your wife isn't interested. A woman that age gets more inclined so because her biological clock is starting to tick. Focus on that my friend, they are wired way different then we are. Generally what happens outside the bedroom determines what happens in the bedroom for them.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Your post is very touching. I wish you well and wonderful things to come.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wannabe (Sep 29, 2013)

@ TikiKeen: I have no questions. I've been on so many forums over the years and I've tried it all already. Maybe some new advice will filter through once I post my whole story. But for now, I'm quite content. I feel a calmness now that I haven't felt in years. I just want to enjoy this setting for the moment. Want to show my kids I can be fun again. I've been grumpy and sad for too long.

@ Baablacksheep: I don't blame my wonderful kids. Never for a second. I just know that I've treated them unjustly at times for something they have no control over. 

@ everyone else who commented. Thank you so very much. I don't have much time to reply to each one individually, but will in due course. TAM has been an eye opener of note. Thank you all so very much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jay1365 (May 22, 2013)

Has anyone ever told you you are passive aggressive? You lay there and watch her put on those no sex socks and swaddle herself in the covers, and your only response after 15 minutes is "i give up"? Then post on here exactly what you should be telling her. She is used to "the ordeal". Try being more assertive, and call her out on her avoidance behaviors. Remember the definition of insanity? It applies here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wannabe (Sep 29, 2013)

Lol. This thing didn't simply just happen last night for the first time. It's happened so many times that I literally have lost count. I've read somewhere that in order to make things better, I should keep on trying. Every single day until things started to improve. I've done that. With zero results. I've also used the tactic of giving her space. Hoping she'd come around. This, too, has not bared any fruit. I've tried this 180 everyone goes on about, no results. I've held her at night because that's what she wanted from me, in order for her to again feel close to me. After holding her for a solid month and not trying or saying anything about our situation and still getting nothing from her it seems as if though the reasons are always gna be there. It's been 3 months, going on 4 of sexlessnes this time around. I've just got to the point where I need to take a break from all of this. And it actually just dawned on me last night. I'm so tired of the fighting. I just need a time out. 
I don't think I'm passive aggressive. I'm just tired of this back and forth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

I sent my wife the link to The Sex Starved Marriage. The link below goes to the first chapter which is posted on line. After reading the chapter, my wife ordered the book.

Divorce Busting® - Books on Marriage - First Chapter of Sex-Starved Marriage

We went through the first chapter last night. Afterwords we discussed it. She understands that if it doesn't change, that it is a deal breaker for me, just as my alcoholism was a deal breaker for her. I changed and quit drinking. Now, she is trying to change. It is not easy, but we are working on it.


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## Janna (Nov 6, 2013)

I want to give you some hope and perspective. We've gone through many periods of this- except that I was the one jumping out of bed! Please don't give up on your wife. This can be a very complicated issue and I'm sure she just wants to avoid.avoid.avoid. Encourage her to find a solution together. Search for books, help etc. 

I can assure you that this is VERY common!! My poor husband can testify. He has also done his fair share of listening and working too.

Good luck! It's worth the effort!!


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## wannabe (Sep 29, 2013)

Thanks for your reply Janna...

The thing is this, I try and try and kept on trying to talk to her so that we/she/I could figure out why she is avoiding being intimate with me. I get so frustrated with her coz I'll be asking question after question; rephrasing questions a 100 times and all I get back from her are blank stares; sad eyes; loud annoyed sighs; silence. Anyone of the above are her answers to all my questions.
I havent initiated in such a long time but what I have been doing is trying to get to the bottom of why I'm being turned down all the time. She confuses me trying to get to the bottom of all this as me trying to get laid. When I tell her that I havent initiated in ages she gets annoyed and asks what was last night then all about. She confuses the two. Cant see one from the other.
I've suggested divorce so many times. She wont have it. I've suggested separation. She wont have that either.

Her outlook on sex seems to be that the more I refrain from pursuing her, the more I love her. The more I try and make love to her, the more I dont love her.
Seems twisted but that's the feeling I get because as soon as I stop pursuing her, she warms up and things seem good on the surface. She's more loving. Warmer. More inviting. Generally better to be around. 
As soon as we've done the above for a few months and I think that the I've done enough to break down the walls, when I initiate then, it just gets ugly so fast.
I can quite literally feel her pulling away even while we're kissing at that moment. Feels like I'm always "pulling her toward me", trying to keep it going. When I get brave enough to try and actually initiate something her response is almost always something along the lines of "but we were doing so great and now you've gone and messed it up again". She doesnt really say that but the argument that develops afterward seems to suggest it. 
Seems like she doesnt associate love with sex but rather the opposite.

Anyway, to get back to what you've said Janna: I'm not giving up on her. I'm just giving up on the talks I try to have with her for the moment. In a month or so I might again be up to trying to get to the bottom of whats going on with her but for now, I'm happy simply being content with our situation.
Just like one of the poster's mentioned somewhere in this thread about the definition of insanity... I guess this is my "trying something different".

This is just so confusing.

PS: I know for a fact that she isnt and has not cheated on me.
PPS: TAM has really been one of the few, if not the only forum I've been to, that has really helped me maybe see things from a different point of view... Not that, I think, there was/is anything wrong with my point of view.
I think she/us/me could do with some counseling. Her: to get past her view of sex; us to help us get closer and open with each other again and me so that I can learn to trust her again and let my guard down if/when things get better.
She wont hear of any counseling right now, or maybe she would. I dont know. I cant tell. When I bring it up (in one of our many talks) I get the blank stares again. I cant read blank stares.:scratchhead: But it seems like she's hurt by the fact that I could even suggest it.

I think what's going on is that she thinks that she is right; I think that I am right and actually, we both might be wrong.
I dont know.

Lets see what happens when I return from this hiatus...


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't know that you can feel sex within a marriage is wrong. Isn't that the whole point? If you wanted a roommate you would have a roommate. If you wanted an adopted family member that was off -limits sexually you could have that as well.

No counseling, no separation, no divorce. These are not acceptable to her. All that is acceptable to her is a sexless marriage. She gets to dictate the perameters of the relationship.


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## wannabe (Sep 29, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I don't know that you can feel sex within a marriage is wrong. Isn't that the whole point? If you wanted a roommate you would have a roommate. If you wanted an adopted family member that was off -limits sexually you could have that as well.
> 
> No counseling, no separation, no divorce. These are not acceptable to her. All that is acceptable to her is a sexless marriage. She gets to dictate the perameters of the relationship.


And this is what frustrates me to the point of no return. 
I only ever suggested divorce or separation out of desperation. Or to try to get her to understand just how hurt I really am. I think that when she dismisses my divorce and separation remarks, it's her way of telling me that she is still vested in the marriage???:scratchhead:


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

She likely has things just the way she wants them. I don't really understand what makes a person turn celebate. It doesn't make sense to me, why a person would choose for that part of their life to be over. Its a nice part of life. It feels good. That's why we get married. Its what makes us different than friends. I don't understand it. 

I imagine shes comfortable with things the way they are? She doesn't want to be single. She doesn't want to have to put herself out there. What you have now works for her and she doesn't wish for anything to change.


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## wannabe (Sep 29, 2013)

I wish I had even just an answer to 1 question. I dont. I dont know what else to do anymore. I've given this new approach a month before I decide what my next step is doing to be or to see if she does something.

I'm just so tired of all the fighting!

PS: I just remembered now that I actually turned her down a few times before we were married. I did it because I got the feeling that our relationship was only about sex (I know... I was such a girl lol). Anyway, when I did it, I spoke to her about it first and told her my concerns. Asked her if we could abstain from sex for just a month so that we could "find" each other again. Before this, we were having sex a few times a day.
The first day was tough on the both of us. She also helped and agreed that it would be a good experiment. Day 2 was even tougher. Day 3 we both gave in and we had sex.
Then we tried the experiment again. She made advances and I turned them down (All in the name of the experiment). I wasn't angry with her. She wasn't angry with me. We still talked and laughed and was happy. Then, I think at around the 1 week mark she serious'd up and point blank told me that if I wasnt meeting her sexual needs that she'd be forced to go find it somewhere else.
WOW...
How that tables have turned.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

When they start acting like this you might as well circle the wagons and go see a divorce attorney. She's not emotionally invested in you, she sees you as a material provider and a figurehead leader of the family. 

I'll never understand partners, my wife included, who have no desire to satisfy and please the person with whom they chose to spend the rest of their life. It's fvcked up and selfish. 



wannabe said:


> Thanks for your reply Janna...
> 
> The thing is this, I try and try and kept on trying to talk to her so that we/she/I could figure out why she is avoiding being intimate with me. I get so frustrated with her coz I'll be asking question after question; rephrasing questions a 100 times and all I get back from her are blank stares; sad eyes; loud annoyed sighs; silence. Anyone of the above are her answers to all my questions.
> I havent initiated in such a long time but what I have been doing is trying to get to the bottom of why I'm being turned down all the time. She confuses me trying to get to the bottom of all this as me trying to get laid. When I tell her that I havent initiated in ages she gets annoyed and asks what was last night then all about. She confuses the two. Cant see one from the other.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I'll add that my wife always falls asleep during the talk and then accuses me of picking a bad time (at night after the kids are asleep) to talk about our issues. Makes me want to put my fist through a wall. 



jd08 said:


> When they start acting like this you might as well circle the wagons and go see a divorce attorney. She's not emotionally invested in you, she sees you as a material provider and a figurehead leader of the family.
> 
> I'll never understand partners, my wife included, who have no desire to satisfy and please the person with whom they chose to spend the rest of their life. It's fvcked up and selfish.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whathappenedtome (Nov 4, 2013)

Not suggesting you should do this, but I actually stopped initiating. I said to my self that if she was just going to say no, then I would just not start. For me, we have actually had a LOT more sex since I did that. But again, not sure that's for everyone.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

wannabe said:


> it's her way of telling me that she is still vested in the marriage???:scratchhead:


 She has a hell of a way showing how she's vested in the marriage.

Look friend, she reads you like a cheap dime store novel and for some reason, you let her. She doesn't want a divorce, separation wont give you one solid reason why she's frigid and the reason? she knows that you will frown, get frustrated, hang a long face and after you get it out of your system, try, try, try again and when she put's on her cool socks that lets you know that tonight ain't the night and neither is tomorrow or next week or next month, she knows that you'll do nothing about it and the cycle continues

It's high time you break the cycle and give her a real clear, loud warning shot across the bow. 

First. if you have a spare room, move her stuff in there along with her "no sex socks" and tell her that her new room is ready. Also, take those wedding pictures down off the wall and put them on top of her bed in THE OTHER ROOM along with your wedding ring. If you don't have a spare room, hand her sheets, blanket, pillow, and her "no sex socks" and point to the couch and let her know that if she is that cold, unfeeling and uncaring then the marital bed is off limits to her until she gets her cold, frigid ass in gear and start acting like a wife should act because all your doing is spinning your wheels and no doubt she's getting her kicks controlling you with the lack of intimacy in your marriage. And put the pictures and ring on the couch.

Fat lot a good a wife and partner is when she treats you like $h!t on her shoe and for some reason you let her.

Hate to say this but you built this monster and have lost control and she's now running you in circles unless you stop playing her game and let her know that her game is over and she's walking on real thin ice. You don't have to shout or scream, just let her know that this is the way it's going to be if she wants to continue acting like she is. YOUR THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. We can give you all the advice in the world but it's you that has to put the hammer down and make the changes. Stop talking and start doing.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

wannabe said:


> I'll post my entire story some day. But for now I just feel like telling someone who'll understand, that tonight, I've finally given up.
> I was ready to start the whole ordeal again for the umpteenth time over "the talk" again. We started getting ready for bed, kids were tucked away already. I'd just had a bath and so did she (not together, don't be silly! Lol). So I get into bed and lay there. She gets out of the bath and instead of coming to bed, she goes downstairs and starts catching up on her admin. Still, I waited for her to finish. I think she was waiting for me to fall asleep. An hour goes by and I hear her quietly coming up the stairs. She gets into bed, jumps straight out again and gets out the "no way in hell we're making love socks". I smile with myself. She gets into bed. Covers her whole body with the blankets even though it's cooking hot outside and in. The only thing exposed are her eyes and forehead.
> By now I know that she's just waiting on me to start at "it" again. I'm quickly thinking of new ways to start this topic off tonight. I couldn't think of a new way to start. She's still waiting on me to start. I reach over to switch the bedroom lights off. Lay there for 15 minutes in silence. Gave her a kiss; said goodnight and told her that she wins, , I'm done. I give up.
> She didn't say a word. Looked at me for a few seconds, very confused. Then started staring out into space. I waited for a few more minutes for her to utter something. Nothing came. I got up out of bed, came downstairs for a smoke and some coffee. Then decided I needed to tell someone. I started this thread.
> ...



I want to wish you all the best as well my friend and that you are not alone.

Your situation is very similar to mine, just no kids and married for 13+ years, minimal sex since we got married, etc.

The trick is to start doing things for yourself, go out more, socialize, meet new people, hobbies, all the things you did before you married her.

As for the sex issue, some women are just low sex drive. This is due to how they were raised, insecure, had a bad ex bf, some abuse they never told you about, perhaps need to get in shape and covers herself up from feet to neck and in bed, and there isn't anything you can do about this. You cannot fix her. She has to want to grow and change and take care of your needs as a loving wife.

Some ladies only want sex in the marriage on their terms. So when she is in the mood, you have to be as well. But when you are in the mood, maybe later, tomorrow okay?, its too late, have a headache, something on tv, good book, going out with friends, etc, etc, etc.

I honestly think some ladies get very comfy being married and even though they love you, its what they want in the end.

What I'm still trying to understand, the sex before you got married was good, yes? After you got married, now its not so good or enough? That should never happen. Makes me wonder, why get married in the first place? Just date.

You've done the talks and you know what? Talk is cheap.....because it never really accomplishes much. It makes you feel better and get it out of your system, but that's about it. Now actions speak louder than words. Have great sex with your wife, often, neither of you reject each other and both initiate, that's the glue the keeps the marriage happy and healthy. Little sex, there isn't much glue and more of a friends with benefits situation, not good.

If your wife likes certain types of sex, toys, dress up?, and she is more passive, then you must be the aggressor most of the time. But then she usually turns you down and you feel rejected, and after a while, really stop, right? Why some ladies play these games with their hubbies is beyond me. It's almost like reverse logic. She wants what she doesn't have and doesn't want what she does have?!

See, most men, sex is critical for our mental the physical health, and yes, that means we "need" sex and often. The ladies love sex too but also the romance, and emotional aspect just as much. You can't kill the sex just because she isn't in the mood, nor can you kill the romance and emotional aspect because you aren't in the mood for that.

I'm sure she is a really good woman, just not in the sexual part of the marriage?

Guys at the shop and even the water deliver guy, tell me how they have great sex and they're married, kids, 40+ years old. The million dollar question is how to truly know if someone will be low sex drive or not. Granted, I got married young and was naive, part of the problem.

Here's a wild idea. Both of you should of signed a prenuptial agreement, saying, if either of you lose you interest in sex, then you can divorce on those grounds and the low sex drive spouse gets the door. Bet that would of stopped the low sex issue......having great and fun sex with your wife is a simple loving thing to do, not complicated, nor do you needs to read many books, etc. This isn't rocket science.

I wish you the best brother.


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## Antman (Oct 19, 2013)

If I were you it would go something like this:
Get a sitter for the kids for a night.
Use the opportunity to ask her if she's having any problems.
If she says no, this is your opportunity to go to action.
I'd be telling her that beds are designed for sleeping and fvcking - and you're getting neither of these things whilst she's in the bed, which is why you're moving her to the couch.
Once she's been on the couch for a few days/weeks it would be worth pointing out to her that there's very little point in being married anymore.
At this point something HAS to happen. Call her out on her bull****.
I had a girlfriend many years ago who threatened to leave every time she didn't get her own way. Eventually I said "fine, go" and that's when she told me how much she needed me etc. etc. but by then I was OVER the whole thing. In hindsight, I should've called her out on it MUCH sooner. Much happier without that in my life.
There's only so much a person can bear and it seems that you've reached your limit.
Best of luck.


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## McMuffin (Dec 17, 2012)

This is my relationship right now. I've reached a point where I have to choose to accept all the excuses or walk away. I am so torn right now. I wish you the best of luck my friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

And for the third time in as many threads, the answer is marital warfare. Or, stirring up the hornet's nest.

Marital warfare is simply not putting up with ANY of your partner's imperfections and to call him/her up on such. Do what you must for yourself and your kids. Do not turn it into a daytime talk show scream fest, obviously, just make sure the partner understands that you're fed up.

Obviously it's not a mature reaction, but many people here are well past that. The whole point is to shake your partner off their comfort zone. 

Sex is to a great extent the make-up that allows one to cover minor imperfections of their partner and ignore them. When the sex goes away so does the tolerance of said imperfections. Simple.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

wannabe said:


> Her outlook on sex seems to be that the more I refrain from pursuing her, the more I love her. The more I try and make love to her, the more I dont love her.
> Seems twisted but that's the feeling I get because as soon as I stop pursuing her, she warms up and things seem good on the surface. She's more loving. Warmer. More inviting. Generally better to be around.
> As soon as we've done the above for a few months and I think that the I've done enough to break down the walls, when I initiate then, it just gets ugly so fast.
> I can quite literally feel her pulling away even while we're kissing at that moment. Feels like I'm always "pulling her toward me", trying to keep it going. When I get brave enough to try and actually initiate something her response is almost always something along the lines of "but we were doing so great and now you've gone and messed it up again". She doesnt really say that but the argument that develops afterward seems to suggest it.
> ...


Since your current plan is not working, let me suggest the following:

Align your actions with your words.

My guess is that you don't pursue, but continue to do all of the nice, wonderful things that you are supposed to do to show your wife that you love her. That is, you continue to meet her needs while she refuses (and in fact actively avoids) meeting your needs. 

Your problem is that you are sending a mixed message, and she is deciding to listen to the message that she wants to here. You tell her how unhappy you are, but you then act like everything is fine (and that you approve of her actions). So she appears to have decided to listen to your message that everything is fine.

So again, you need to align your actions with your words. That does not mean being a jerk. Rather, it means doing less for her and taking care of you. Less cuddling. No initiating any contact. Being there less for her. Treating her more like a roommate and less like a wife. You would not drop everything to run to the store for your roommate, but you would agree to grab something if you were already going. 

You should also take care of your own needs and not expect her to do it. That means taking care of your own happiness. Pick up an old (or new) hobby. Watch the shows you want to in a different room. Go out with friends. Be happy and show her that you are happy with your life. 

If you take this approach, you also have to be honest when she asks you what is going on. Don't pout or whine about sex. And absolutely don't pull the passive aggressive everything is fine honey crap. Rather, be clear that since she is not willing to meet your needs, you need to focus on yourself more and rebalance the level of effort for both sides. That means you have less time and interest in meeting her needs. Again, be calm, respectful and pleasant. No need to be a jerk. Rather, these are the new facts and you are adjusting.

This approach has a couple of benefits that might be useful:

1) It more clearly demonstrates what you do bring to her life by taking those things away;
2) It helps you realize that you control your happiness. You work on you and quit trying to manipulate her;
3) It gives her some space. It may well be that you are smoothering her (look at the Thermostat thread for more on this); and
4) It reduces resentment in you. You reduce your effort to more closely match hers.

Now, all this assumes that you are generally working to meet her needs and that she won't think she is better off without you. Of course, if that is the case, finding that out sooner rather than later is a good thing.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

All that is well except for the Free Get Out Of Sex Card for the next few months by virtue of being pregnant. Remember, there is a chance she may see the light, and if she does not, divorce court may look more favorably if he can document he did all this expected father stuff rather than pout for a year.


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## wannabe (Sep 29, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Since your current plan is not working, let me suggest the following:
> 
> Align your actions with your words.
> 
> ...


Some very very good points you make. For the record, I haven't whined about sex in a long time. It was just too emasculating. I've also never begged for sex. What I have been doing is, instead of whining about how we dont have sex, is (probably) whine about why she is so cold and indifferent toward me. After doing what I've been doing for so long, I need to retrain myself into being this "new guy" that I want to be.
For starters, I'll be getting my old guitar out of storage this weekend and start playing some again. My car also hasnt been polished and waxed in a while. I'll do that this weekend too. Taking the kids to the park Saturday morning. Gna have some drinks with the guys Saturday evening (Haven't done that in years). I run in the mornings (around 4am) so I'm quite fit but I think I'll look into getting a gym membership too.

And yes, I generally do try and keep her happy. It's just the way I was was raised. (My dad did/does everything for my mom and they're very happy.) I never could have imagined it would turn out to be a bad thing in my marriage or that my wife would use it against me (so to speak) :scratchhead:

I'm trying my best to stick to my new plan now.
Thanks for writing TAG!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

wannabe said:


> Some very very good points you make. For the record, I haven't whined about sex in a long time. It was just too emasculating. I've also never begged for sex. What I have been doing is, instead of whining about how we dont have sex, is (probably) whine about why she is so cold and indifferent toward me. After doing what I've been doing for so long, I need to retrain myself into being this "new guy" that I want to be.


Stop all whining of any kind. It hurts you and your relationship.



> For starters, I'll be getting my old guitar out of storage this weekend and start playing some again. My car also hasnt been polished and waxed in a while. I'll do that this weekend too. Taking the kids to the park Saturday morning. Gna have some drinks with the guys Saturday evening (Haven't done that in years). I run in the mornings (around 4am) so I'm quite fit but I think I'll look into getting a gym membership too.


All good things. 



> And yes, I generally do try and keep her happy. It's just the way I was was raised. (My dad did/does everything for my mom and they're very happy.) I never could have imagined it would turn out to be a bad thing in my marriage or that my wife would use it against me (so to speak) :scratchhead:


It is human nature to take things for granted. Does not make your wife a bad person, but does make her human. So you need to stop doing some of that stuff.



> I'm trying my best to stick to my new plan now.
> Thanks for writing TAG!


Hopefully, your actions will cause your wife to approach you about what is going on. If she voices concerns about your reasons, ask her to complete the His Needs/Her Needs worksheet (easy to find on the interwebs). A great resource for you two to work smarter together.


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## wannabe (Sep 29, 2013)

Lets first see how this goes before I start blazing through the interwebz trying to find His Needs/Her Needs worksheet. I find myself having to almost force myself to look happy. This shows me that I've been unhappy (and showing it) for so long that my body language and facial expressions doesnt know anything else. I also find myself wanting to bring up this issues with her but then force myself not to. Usually I do this by calmly walking out of the house or room we're in and just taking a "breather".
It's tough. I havent "whined" about anything this entire week. This is mostly due to the fact that I am working the graveyard shift this week so we dont sleep together. Once I'm done with this shift it's gna be tough to refrain from bringing it up when we're in bed at night. (Thats usually when I bring it up - Coz in my twisted mind, night times are when we should, at least, be having sex as a young married couple.:scratchhead: )

PS: While I wouldn't mind "putting her out" of the marital bed, I dont see myself ever doing this. I just have to find a way around trying to talk to her while in bed.
I still need to work on that strategy. But the way I see it, this whole exercise is completely new to me so it's gna require me to learn these skills fast.

#WishMeLuck


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## wannabe (Sep 29, 2013)

Update over here...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/160697-initiating-talk-21.html#post10572514


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