# An almost sexless marriage



## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

This will be my first post. I've needed advice, thoughts, suggestions etc. on my situation for months. Warning it is a long post AND I'm on my mobile so sometimes it miss types my words or changes my words. 

Background: I am 34. My husband is 43. We've been together for 13 years. We have four children. During the early part of our marriage I was a stay at home mom. Subsequently, for the past 5 years our roles reversed and he's the stay at home dad. (I don't know if any of that will matter but I thought I would throw that out there). 

So during the early part of our marriage he was like a bunny wanting sex all the time. In the beginning I was fine with that but was never really thrilled because apparently he is very vanilla and apparently I am not. With him it was always missionary. Never anything new and no foreplay. When I got pregnant and my libido nose dived. I never instigated sex but would give it to him and pretend for him. Now I know that sounds harsh to "pretend" to enjoy it but I just wasn't interested and I didn't want to hurt his feelings. 

When I wasn't pregnant I often didn't want sex because I didn't want to get pregnant. He refused to wear condoms and even if I talked him into wearing one by the end of our sex session he would no longer be wearing one. So I stayed away from sex so as not to get pregnant. At 29 and after four children AND tired of always having to worry about what time of the month it was as to whether or not it was safe to have sex, I got my tubes tied. 

So I hit 30 and all of a sudden I can have as much sex as I want. But I still really didn't want sex. And after he and I had an argument about him not getting enough sex and me coming to the conclusion that he was right. Well I took matters into my own hands. I started to think about why I didn't want sex and I realized that I just wasn't turned on. See my husband has great stamina but is absolutely terrible at foreplay. As in there is no foreplay. And this is even after I asked for more (well any would do). So I prepare myself by reading sexy erotica which totally turns me on. Now mind you I don't imagine other men when I read erotica. I just find it stimulating and gets me in the mood. 

So yeah, I now realize that we aren't really compatible sexually. I like a bit of kink and well...it took me a while just to convince him to try doggy style. I like experimenting and trying new things. I do this in everything in life from beer to food and would love to include sex in that too but I have resigned myself to vanilla sex. 

Ok so after all that we are down to what the "problem" is...now that I want more sex he has decided he doesn't want sex. At first I was just a little frustrated because I was deliberately getting myself in the mood only to be frustrated by not getting any. Apparently the epiphany that I can no longer get pregnant plus deliberately attempting to increase my libido really worked and now I want sex. I want sex at least every other day, but every three days would be fine too. But now all of a sudden for the past year or two I might get sex once a week if I'm lucky and once every two weeks normally. And if I am really unlucky then once in a month. 

So I really couldn't understand how he could go from wanting sex every other day to barely wanting anything. So after months of this i found out that he has been looking up porn sites once a day and jacking off while I'm at work. So I absolutely get no sex during the week at all. He will claim he's too tired or his back hurts or any number of ailments. 

And there is nothing more awesome than asking for sex or deliberately wearing something sexy and being turned down. When confronted he says "it's not you honey. It is me." Apparently he doesn't feel like he's in shape and not sexy. Though I call bull on that because he is in decent shape. Yeah is been more muscular but he's also been fatter than he is now and I've always been attracted to him. I told him so. 

I have some decisions I have to make. Apparently I'm not going to be getting sex any anymore but I still want it so I've decided to chose a nice collection of toys. But of course when I mentioned to him I might get some so that he doesn't open my boxes and get a surprise, he tells me that doesn't want me to get any toys. 

This whole subject upsets me. It's been almost two years of having sex 1-4 times a month. Oh and I swear he waits till I'm on my period to want sex where I have to say no. And then asks for a BJ when I won't have sex during my period. But yet when he doesn't want sex he doesn't do anything to help me out. 

Sometimes I think it is a control thing. Like when I don't want sex he won't take no for an answer. And when I do want sex he decides he doesn't. Apparently jacking off every single day at home is better than waiting and having sex with me.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

No human being can compete with the variety, the idealized content, and the manufactured looks of porn. As long as he orients his sexuality around pixels you won't compete well for his attention. I think porn can be a marginal issue, but in this case he is choosing it over you which is the problem. 

Maybe when he was younger, he had the stamina to do both you and the computer but age and familiarity are catching up with him.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I just made a comment on another wifes post who said just about what you said, that her husband was choosing to jack off to porn over having sex with her. I don't understand it maybe because I'm a women. There is nothing you can do about the situation. I'm sure you have talked to him about it. Maybe it's porn, maybe it's control maybe he is just getting older and his desire has gone down. Enjoy the sex you do have with him and take care of yourself the rest of the time.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your sex drive changed. Why is it difficult for you to imagine that his might as well? You now see how positively awful it feels to want sex and be regularly turned away, but isn't that exactly how you treated him for quite a few years? 
At 43, what appears to be a lack of interest on his part may more likely be a performance problem. He is obviously still very much interested in sex if he's getting himself off and looking at porn. Neither of those activities requires obtaining and sustaining a decent erection. Having sex with his wife certainly would. He could get a BJ without being firm enough to take care of actual intercourse in a way you would find satisfactory, which could explain why he asks for them. See if you can get him to a doc. There's probably a medical fix for his malfunction.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Wow you too really derailed this marriage.

You didn't want sex which frustrated him and he turned to porn
Now you want sex and he has checked out and round we go.

Are you willing to fix this? Is he?

You both clearly have some communication issues that need to be addressed. 

So far as the sex goes you may never be on the same page with him. However, in a good marriage with good communication you should be able to compromise on some things so long as it's not pushed outside of comfort zones. So you could ask him to different positions but probably too much to stick your fingers in a give a prostrate massage. Only way you'll know is to communicate, only way to do that is get some help. Are you both willing to do that?


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> Your sex drive changed. Why is it difficult for you to imagine that his might as well? You now see how positively awful it feels to want sex and be regularly turned away, but isn't that exactly how you treated him for quite a few years?
> At 43, what appears to be a lack of interest on his part may more likely be a performance problem. He is obviously still very much interested in sex if he's getting himself off and looking at porn. Neither of those activities requires obtaining and sustaining a decent erection. Having sex with his wife certainly would. He could get a BJ without being firm enough to take care of actual intercourse in a way you would find satisfactory, which could explain why he asks for them. See if you can get him to a doc. There's probably a medical fix for his malfunction.


Well yes I did reject him during ovulation time for quite a few years but mainly because of lack of protection. He knew the reason and yet still chose not to wear condoms which in turn prevented sex during certain times of the month. He could easily have prevented the majority of my rejection. Of which I left him know why so it wasn't like I kept him in the dark. 

He might have a performance problem. ??? Maybe? How would I know how to figure out if he does or not? Sex is at least 30 minutes unless it is a BJ. He will pause at around the 30 minute mark to prevent Oing to drag sex out to an hour. Personally don't think he needs to do that but he will. I've told him he doesn't have to try and last so long but he'll do it anyway. ???? Well anyways that is what occurs when I do finally get sex.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Wow you too really derailed this marriage.
> 
> You didn't want sex which frustrated him and he turned to porn
> Now you want sex and he has checked out and round we go.
> ...


No he turned to porn two years after I got my libido to where his was. 

Hum. I should have explained more. Even during the times where I turned him down he still got Plenty of sex. It's just that my libido was shot and I really didn't want any. But gave amyways. Just not around ovulation. He definitely got plenty more than he gives me now. I felt bad that he always wanted sex and I felt like it was a chore to suffer through so I worked on what turns me on. He wanted sex like every day or every other day and I just didn't. So I worked on ME. Analyzing why I did or didn't want sex. In the end I got to where he was. He was happy with the increased sex. And I was happy that we were finally on the same page. But then last year sex just dropped off. At first I did think anything of it. But when it didn't pick back up I was at a loss but chocked it up to life's roller coaster. Stress whatever. But sex is further and further away. Longer and longer between. And then I find out that the reason he doesn't want any anymore is because he takes care of himself during the day. So every single day he Os and I do not. 

Trying to talk to him about it is just uncomfortable. Apparently he gets horny in the middle of the day when I'm not there so he takes care of it himself and so doesn't want any later on. Of course the problem is that he gets to O every day but well not me. And I can't come home in the middle of the day for a quicky because of the commute. 

Oh and he didn't turn to porn because I wouldn't give him any...he turned to porn supposedly because he gets horny in the middle the day and since I'm not there porn it is.


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

I've been through a lot of this myself (in reverse), so I can fully understand what you're saying. But I feel you're misreading it:

* A guy will want sex when he's not getting it, and not want it when he gets it!
* Women want sex at the start of a relationship, n lose interest within 2-3 yrs
* Women peak in their 30s, so it's normal to climax more, want sex more then
* A guy will prefer porn to sex if the latter seems like unenjoyable hard work
* There's no logic to why a woman (less often, a man) goes off wanting sex
* Trying to understand WHY is therefore pointless
* When you want sex, just tell him firmly to 'get into bed'. It's your right.
* Agree that 'duty sex' is far less/no fun, but at least it's something.
* My partner hated doggie style, then grew to love it. 
* I think it's a great position for a male too, very dominant...
* Try watching 'couples porn' together. Porn is great foreplay.
* Don't feel guilty about your toys or needing to masturbate.
* I'm often masturbating my partner, either with toys I bought her or hands.


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

Also: what's the problem with 'period sex'? It's horny, exciting (specially for the woman)... provided the man learns to treat it just as 'red lube'... and it's not painful for her. We're often doing it ...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think if you are determined to see him as the only one with a problem then you are probably not going to solve this with him. In that case, you would be better off splitting up if you've decided you can't live this way any longer.

If you're interested in solving this with him, then you must recognize that there is shared responsibility for your situation. Each of you probably feels a bit like a victim in some way.

It is easy to say, "well, he's just addicted to p-rn." that may be true, or it might just be convenient because it relieves you of any responsibility to look deeper.

What might looking deeper entail? Well, one idea is to maybe examine what exactly he is looking at on the screen that has him so interested. Is he really as vanilla as you think? You might be surprised.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

brownmale said:


> Also: what's the problem with 'period sex'? It's horny, exciting (specially for the woman)... provided the man learns to treat it just as 'red lube'... and it's not painful for her. We're often doing it ...


I personally wouldn't care. But would rather prepare the bed first if we did that. I am not sure if he cares though. Time for a conversation with hubby


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> I think if you are determined to see him as the only one with a problem then you are probably not going to solve this with him. In that case, you would be better off splitting up if you've decided you can't live this way any longer.
> 
> If you're interested in solving this with him, then you must recognize that there is shared responsibility for your situation. Each of you probably feels a bit like a victim in some way.
> 
> ...


well the vast majority of his searches are younger females but that's any guy really. One time I found that he looked at shemales but that was just once and that might have been just for curiosity. I surely hope that is the reason because I can't help him there. 

I'm not sure if he can be considered addicted to porn when looks at it just once a day to get off. ?????


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

peacem said:


> People use a lot of excuses for abusing porn - being horny in the middle of the day is pretty lame if he is not having sex with you in the evening. What would he do if he was at work??! In a healthy relationship they would fantasize about what they will do to their partner when the kids are in bed...later.
> 
> Don't give up your sex toys, that's a control issue. He is wanting to watch porn, but you are not allowed to use toys?! No wonder you are annoyed. I think him quitting the porn and you being consistent in agreeing to regular sex may bring back some trust between you both. But it takes time. We are seven months into a similar journey and its a lot better but still not entirely there. It is really important that neither of you do the blame game, sit down and talk, tell each other what your needs and tastes are (they change all the time) and agree to be considerate to each other. Go back to basics. Trust does not come back over night but hopefully it will eventually and you will be stronger for it.
> 
> There may be some ED issues, it is very common with heavy porn users who turn down actual sex.


Thank you.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Ladyred, you pretended to enjoy sex for his benefit. Maybe he figured out that you were pretending or maybe he didn't. Then your libido increased and maybe your enjoyment was more authentic and he realized that you were 'faking it' previously. Many/most guys would have issues with a woman who fakes it. That could be part if the problem.


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

Agreed, the blame game can get terrible when sex is bad.

Frankly, I too found condoms very unenjoyable and bereft of pleasure! It made me feel as if I was kissing across a glove!

My partner took to some female contraception (not the pill, but IUDs) and that took away the I-might-get-pregnant tension...



ladyred said:


> Well yes I did reject him during ovulation time for quite a few years but mainly because of lack of protection. He knew the reason and yet still chose not to wear condoms which in turn prevented sex during certain times of the month. He could easily have prevented the majority of my rejection. Of which I left him know why so it wasn't like I kept him in the dark. .


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

VermisciousKnid said:


> Ladyred, you pretended to enjoy sex for his benefit. Maybe he figured out that you were pretending or maybe he didn't. Then your libido increased and maybe your enjoyment was more authentic and he realized that you were 'faking it' previously. Many/most guys would have issues with a woman who fakes it. That could be part if the problem.


It could be but I surely hope not because I can't fix faking it in the past. 

Much of the reason I used to fake it was because me having one orgasm wasn't good enough for him. He wanted me to have many every time we had sex. Sometimes I was up for that but sometimes I wasn't. 

I was often really tired back then. We had young children and I would often be up and down all night with them. Sleep was precious and I always felt tired. I would have been happy with a quicky but I knew that sex with him always turned in to an hour and sometimes more affair. And back then I just wasn't able to keep up as I was lucky if I had 4 hrs of uninterrupted sleep. Taking an hour to hour and a half from my four hours of potentially uninterrupted sleep each night was wearing me down and I started faking the multiple orgasms just to be able to go to sleep quicker. When the kids got older and could sleep through the night I didn't fake as much. 

But in those early days of low libido and exhaustion I would fake the extras he insisted I had before he would O. Sometimes I would fake them all and sometimes just a portion of them. 

Geeze I type that out and that sounds so strange. why would anyone complain about multiple orgasms. Well I'm not. I think they are awesomely great. But sex was strictly VIP no extra touching. It's hard for me to have multiple orgasms that way. It is one of the reasons I love doggie style because of clitoral stimulus that I could give myself. And I had to practically beg for that to be part of sex as he didn't think he'd like that. But now we almost always finish that way.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

So, 34 and together for 13 years. 4 kids by 29 means the first one came what - no later than 24? Libido was **** from 24 to what 31? 32? 

You are reaping what you sowed, it is half your problem so apologize for the near decade of relentless ****iness and ask for a reset where you both work together. 




ladyred said:


> When I got pregnant and my libido nose dived. I never instigated sex but would give it to him and pretend for him. Now I know that sounds harsh to "pretend" to enjoy it but I just wasn't interested and I didn't want to hurt his feelings.
> 
> When I wasn't pregnant I often didn't want sex because I didn't want to get pregnant. He refused to wear condoms and even if I talked him into wearing one by the end of our sex session he would no longer be wearing one. So I stayed away from sex so as not to get pregnant. At 29 and after four children AND tired of always having to worry about what time of the month it was as to whether or not it was safe to have sex, I got my tubes tied.
> 
> So I hit 30 and all of a sudden I can have as much sex as I want. But I still really didn't want sex. And after he and I had an argument about him not getting enough sex and me coming to the conclusion that he was right.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

ladyred said:


> well the vast majority of his searches are younger females but that's any guy really. One time I found that he looked at shemales but that was just once and that might have been just for curiosity. I surely hope that is the reason because I can't help him there.
> 
> I'm not sure if he can be considered addicted to porn when looks at it just once a day to get off. ?????


I wouldn't call that an addiction, personally, but I'm no expert.

Look for patterns. OK, the women are young, but what are they doing? Are they wearing anything? Is there a situation they seem to be in?

Unless you are seeing a pattern, I would not assume that one random image here or there is indicative of an interest. Sometimes you might just be like, "WTF is _that?_"

The point is that this is a great way to get insight into what actually turns your husband on.

Many men, for whatever reason, are sometimes ashamed to do things with their wives that they actually find hot.

That could be one of your husband's issues. You could both benefit by drawing him out gently if that is the case.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

brownmale said:


> Agreed, the blame game can get terrible when sex is bad.
> 
> Frankly, I too found condoms very unenjoyable and bereft of pleasure! It made me feel as if I was kissing across a glove!
> 
> My partner took to some female contraception (not the pill, but IUDs) and that took away the I-might-get-pregnant tension...


Yeah. Many of the options out there were not good for breastfeeding mothers. One of the IUDs we looked at was copper and non-hormonal but it wasn't covered by our insurance. I'm not going to go in to all the different reasons for our choices of BC because really we had many different reasons. Suffice it to say he was aware of the choices and reasoning behind them.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

anonmd said:


> So, 34 and together for 13 years. 4 kids by 29 means the first one came what - no later than 24? Libido was **** from 24 to what 31? 32?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh I already apologized for the times I didn't want any. and it obviously was not relentless NOs for sex since we do have four kids (and 3MCs). 

It's just that once we couldn't make babies anymore sex life should have gotten better. Not worse.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Keep in mind that a good guy can be "aware of the choices and the reasoning behind them" and commit to gutting it out at the time because doing otherwise would be kinda douchy . But that doesn't mean he's happy about the situation and a lot of resentment can build up over a decade. 

On the other hand the mysteriously disappearing condom thing is pretty douchy in itself!! So I by no means have a handle on how good a guy your guy is really...


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

Two ideas for you - you both seem to have physical & emotional needs that are not being met and most likely they are very different ie your needs are not his needs and vice versa. Talk it through so you can figure out how you can each do a better job meeting the other's needs. Second, to appeal to his primal male horny streak, try sexting him in the middle of the day when you think he's using porn and jerking off. Become part of the action. I bet it will turn you on to do it while you're at work and it might just get him to see you in a different light. You could even try phone sex depending on how much privacy you have at work. Do this right and you'll be ripping each other's clothes off when you get home from work.


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## Pleaser44 (May 5, 2015)

I would be happy to get sex ONCE a month. It's May, and I have not had sex this year. . . . . Yup, that's what I said. My husband is experiencing ID., I feel that it IS me, but councellor tries to convince me it isn't me. He also started with the porn sites, etc. I've offered to watch them with him (as much as I dislike it - maybe soft porn would be ok with me, dunno), but this makes him feel uncomfortable. We went and bought me a toy, but it's the INTIMACY that I miss. The touching, cuddling. My toy (Bob = battery operated boyfriend) can't touch me etc.
I'm still working on this in marriage coucelling. Good luck, and if you figure it out, P L E A S E tell me what helped you. Your not alone


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

ladyred,

I think the problem was that he used to just do things his way and was able to convince himself that he was a fabulous lover.

Then you suddenly have needs and this strips away the illusion that he was perfect as it was.

Now, he has a chance of not doing the "right" things (which he didn't think used to be a problem).

He's decided that if just doing what he's always done isn't good enough, he'll just take his ball and go home. This is incredibly immature. 

You're going to have to shock him out of this crap. Tell him that if you two don't figure this out, you may have to start looking elsewhere (or whatever would have the needed effect.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

ladyred said:


> No he turned to porn two years after I got my libido to where his was.
> 
> Hum. I should have explained more. Even during the times where I turned him down he still got Plenty of sex. It's just that my libido was shot and I really didn't want any. But gave amyways. Just not around ovulation. He definitely got plenty more than he gives me now. I felt bad that he always wanted sex and I felt like it was a chore to suffer through so I worked on what turns me on. He wanted sex like every day or every other day and I just didn't. So I worked on ME. Analyzing why I did or didn't want sex. In the end I got to where he was. He was happy with the increased sex. And I was happy that we were finally on the same page. But then last year sex just dropped off. At first I did think anything of it. But when it didn't pick back up I was at a loss but chocked it up to life's roller coaster. Stress whatever. But sex is further and further away. Longer and longer between. And then I find out that the reason he doesn't want any anymore is because he takes care of himself during the day. So every single day he Os and I do not.
> 
> ...


Ok but you still didn't answer. Are you willing to fix this, is he? Are you both willing to go to counseling. You have lots to fix here


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> You can get yourself in the mood for sex now can't you. You couldn't before for years. That would piss me off frankly and I would not feel very motivated to show more effort than originally shown. That's all I'm saying


I can NOW. My husband is the only one I've ever been with. I might have kissed two people before him. I really never thought constructively about why I wasn't interested in sex in the beginning. So no it doesn't surprise me that I didn't get myself in the mood. I was tired. And it really never occurred to me to see if I could increase my libido. Looking back I wish I could go back and slap myself or sit myself down and have a nice long chat. But unfortunately hind sight is 20/20. 

There were many times I wished I had a higher sex drive but life was busy for us both. I actually never even realized it was a problem until he brought up that he wanted more sex. By this point I started to think and self evaluate. I mean it's not like I made a conscious decision to not want sex. Once I thought about it and decided I would try and give more... I Figured out what turned me on and pretty much fantasized from there. 

So yeah I want sex now. And yeah apparently he prefers his hand now. You might think it is just desserts but personally I just want him to make up his mind. Either he wants sex with me or he doesn't. And if he doesn't then what is the point in personal grooming to make sure I look good in bed for him. Shaving is time consuming and sucks. If no one will be seeing my business then I will stop. I will invest in toys that make ME happy. Because obviously he is good without it. As it stands right now he gets to jack off and yet he doesn't want me to get anything to help get me get o on my own. I would rather have sex than use the toys so I'd rather not even get toys but I will if that's my only option. 

And you know, if he actually really had a low libido I would accept it and happily take care of my needs when I had them. But to find out that he's been jacking off during the day for who knows how long and claiming all sorts of different excuses as to why he didn't want sex that night. Well that sucks. I have absolutely NEVER done that to him. I will say it again IF I thought he truly had lost his sex drive I would accept it. I know I would have because that is what I did last year when all this started. I mean sure I was disappointed but I could accept it. 

I have never really checked up on him in the past but I was on his phone to look up something many months back and when I started typing in the www part a porn site filled in. At first I thought yay he's horny I'll get some tonight but no. 

The next day I checked to see if he'd looked at stuff again. Because maybe he really was as tired as he said. And again yes he'd looked at porn and no I didn't get sex. Over and over I looked. Sick, too tired, not in the mood, only likes morning sex, blah blah blah. The only time I got sex was if he had been too busy that day to jack off. It was at that point I started getting upset.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Ok but you still didn't answer. Are you willing to fix this, is he? Are you both willing to go to counseling. You have lots to fix here


Yes I am. And I believe he will too. I asked him to stop watching porn for a certain amount of time (we haven't discussed yet how long). He has agreed. If he's not satisfied and wants to start jacking off again after a period of time then he can. And I'll figure how to be happy like he is. 

He may be willing to go to counseling. In the past I wou have said no he would not be willing but he seems more open to talking to someone else about it than he was in the past.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

You are starting to come around, still a little reluctant but starting. 




ladyred said:


> I can NOW. My husband is the only one I've ever been with. I might have kissed two people before him. I really never thought constructively about why I wasn't interested in sex in the beginning. So no it doesn't surprise me that I didn't get myself in the mood. I was tired. And it really never occurred to me to see if I could increase my libido. Looking back I wish I could go back and slap myself or sit myself down and have a nice long chat. But unfortunately hind sight is 20/20.
> 
> There were many times I wished I had a higher sex drive but life was busy for us both. I actually never even realized it was a problem until he brought up that he wanted more sex. By this point I started to think and self evaluate. I mean it's not like I made a conscious decision to not want sex. Once I thought about it and decided I would try and give more... I Figured out what turned me on and pretty much fantasized from there.
> 
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ladyred...What did your husband say when you asked him to stop the porn for a bit of time?

Also what does he say when you tell him you need more foreplay? Is he just clueless about what foreplay means?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ladyred said:


> Background: I am 34. My husband is 43. We've been together for 13 years. We have four children. During the early part of our marriage I was a stay at home mom. Subsequently, for the past 5 years our roles reversed and he's the stay at home dad. (I don't know if any of that will matter but I thought I would throw that out there).


Why is he now the SAHD and not working? Is he doing all the things that are expected from a stay at home mom… like taking the major role with the children, cleaning house, shopping, cooking, etc.?



ladyred said:


> So during the early part of our marriage he was like a bunny wanting sex all the time. In the beginning I was fine with that but was never really thrilled because apparently he is very vanilla and apparently I am not. With him it was always missionary. Never anything new and no foreplay. When I got pregnant and my libido nose dived. I never instigated sex but would give it to him and pretend for him. Now I know that sounds harsh to "pretend" to enjoy it but I just wasn't interested and I didn't want to hurt his feelings.


You say that there was no foreplay. Did you orgasms very often or at all? How long were these sexual encounters usually? (I’m trying to get more of an idea of the quality of the sex for you.)


ladyred said:


> Well yes I did reject him during ovulation time for quite a few years but mainly because of lack of protection. He knew the reason and yet still chose not to wear condoms which in turn prevented sex during certain times of the month. He could easily have prevented the majority of my rejection. Of which I left him know why so it wasn't like I kept him in the dark.


Had you tired birth control pills, etc? I'm just curious because you did not mention it.

It sounds to me like he wanted to make the decision on whether or not you got pregnant. This is of course totally unacceptable. Under the circumstances I think you were very justified in not wanting sex when he was clearly trying to get you pregnant when you did not want to get pregnant: 
1)	He made sure that sex was as unenjoyable for you as he possibly could while still getting sex for himself. 
2)	He was trying to force you into a pregnancy. 

Both of these things are unacceptable. They are actually a form of emotional abuse.
I think that you need to heat this: few women today would tolerate a marriage in which their husband refused to do things like foreplay. Why would any woman want to be emotionally hurt like that on an almost daily basis? You really need to ask yourself why you put up with this. Maybe you were too young and naïve to know better?

My guess on why the sex dropped off after you got your tubes tied is twofold. He sees sex leading to babies and he wanted to pregnant. Since you can no longer get pregnant it's harder for him to justify sex. 

Another thing that I would guess is that he does not like the idea of you being sexual. He likes having sex. But now you being sexual. You getting your tubes tied means that you want sex just to have sex. This is a guy who does not believe that you should enjoy sex... he will not engage in foreplay or giving you pleasure. I had a brother-in-law who was like this. He was very clear to her that women do not enjoy sex. Has your husband ever voiced that kind of opinion?



ladyred said:


> He might have a performance problem. ??? Maybe? How would I know how to figure out if he does or not? Sex is at least 30 minutes unless it is a BJ. He will pause at around the 30 minute mark to prevent Oing to drag sex out to an hour. Personally don't think he needs to do that but he will. I've told him he doesn't have to try and last so long but he'll do it anyway. ???? Well anyways that is what occurs when I do finally get sex.


To find out if he as low T or other physical problems he needs to see a doctor and get some tests run.
Does he get morning wood? If he does it’s highly unlikely he’s low T.
What is most likely the problem is that you got your tubes tied? That took away his ability to use sex to control you. So now he’s using the lack of sex to control and punish you. 

About 20% of all marriages are sexless or near sexless. Men and women chose to make their marriages sexless at about the same rate. What you are going through is not unusual at all. The most common reason for a person to make their marriage sexless (and near sexless) is that they are harboring anger and resentment at their spouse. I’m talking about this being in the 80% range. Most spouses who make a marriage sexless are not low drive. They are using a passive aggressive technique (withholding sex) to express their anger and even punish their spouse. Here is a very interesting book on the topic.

Why Men Stop Having Sex: Men, the Phenomenon of Sexless Relationships, and What You Can Do About It

When men do this kind of thing and they still have a good libido they turn to either porn or cheating. He’s getting his sexual needs met elsewhere. He does not want you to have sex, much less enjoyable sex. He can no longer force you to get pregnant but buy golly he make sure you don’t get that sex you want.

When a guy uses porn like this it becomes a huge problem because porn and masturbation is much less work than sex with a live woman. He can have all the sex he wants and only think about himself. And Mrs. Hand never complains that she needs an orgasm too and wants foreplay. The porn queens are the same… they want nothing from him (except a bit of money).

Your Brain on Porn

There is a 6 part video lecture.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

brownmale said:


> I've been through a lot of this myself (in reverse), so I can fully understand what you're saying. But I feel you're misreading it:
> 
> * A guy will want sex when he's not getting it, and not want it when he gets it!


:scratchhead: Can you clarify? Are you saying that if a man has a partner who wants sex as much as he does, then he will not want sex with her? 


brownmale said:


> * Women want sex at the start of a relationship, n lose interest within 2-3 yrs


This I not true for all women. It’s true for a small percentage of women. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/236514-women-whats-your-sex-drive-like.html


brownmale said:


> * Women peak in their 30s, so it's normal to climax more, want sex more then
> 
> * A guy will prefer porn to sex if the latter seems like unenjoyable hard work


What would be “unenjoyable hard work”?


brownmale said:


> * There's no logic to why a woman (less often, a man) goes off wanting sex


Men and women chose to make their marriages sexless at about the same rate. Women just don’t talk as much about it openly because we are told lies like the one about all men wanting sex all the time. So we torture ourselves, putting the blame on ourselves.



brownmale said:


> * Trying to understand WHY is therefore pointless


It’s not useless at all. It just takes some hard work with the spouse and time.


brownmale said:


> * When you want sex, just tell him firmly to 'get into bed'. It's your right.


Yea like that will work.


brownmale said:


> * Agree that 'duty sex' is far less/no fun, but at least it's something.


I wonder what the OP feels about receiving duty sex. I would not want it.


brownmale said:


> * Try watching 'couples porn' together. Porn is great foreplay.


He does not want sex with his while. This would mean that he would have to have sex with his wife.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ladyred said:


> well the vast majority of his searches are younger females but that's any guy really. One time I found that he looked at shemales but that was just once and that might have been just for curiosity. I surely hope that is the reason because I can't help him there.
> 
> I'm not sure if he can be considered addicted to porn when looks at it just once a day to get off. ?????


Whether he's addicted or not might not be the issue. The basic problem is that he's choosing to use porn instead of working with you to fix this and instead of having sex with you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> You can get yourself in the mood for sex now can't you. You couldn't before for years. That would piss me off frankly and I would not feel very motivated to show more effort than originally shown. That's all I'm saying


You just have missed some things in her posts.

She had trouble getting into the mood for sex because he refuses to do normal things like foreplay, sensual touching, etc. during sex. 

He only allowed one position, missionary are most of their marriage.

When they had sex it was nothing but PIV and totally on his terms. She even had to have the number of orgasms that HE insisted she have. She was not even allowed to decide how many she wanted to have. It seems that he had to have 100% control over their sex.

He insisted on sex even when that meant that she, already exhausted, would not get only 2.5-3 hours of sleep at night.

Now I’m rather surprised that she kept having sex with him because that’s a very lousy sex life to be honest.

Despite a lousy sex life, she went out and figured out ways to get herself more interested in sex. Geez, I’d think that men would think it was great that a woman would do this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ladyred,

Can you clarify.. 

You said that your husband will not do any foreplay, will not do any sexual touching during sex, so sex was only PIV mission until you got him to try doggy.

If that's right, then he only 'allowed' PIV orgasms.

Are you aware that only about 25% of women can orgasm from PIV? And even those who can, can only do it occasionally. 

I think that it would really help you and your husband to go to a marriage counselor who is also a sex therapists. There is so much going on and so many possibilities of what the issues are that I think that you two need the help of someone who is very experienced in helping couples get their sex life on track.

Plus, if you tell the sex therapist what you have told us here about things like no foreplay, no touching during sex, only PIV orgasms allowed for you, your husband insisting that you had to have however orgasms he felt you should have... the therapist can help to educate your husband on some things about sex.

ETA: 

I agree that you are going to have to take responsibility for your part in all this. But think very clearly about what your part really is.

And keep in mind that your husband is going to have to own up to his part in this. He is a huge part of the problem and needs to recognize what he did, admit it and apologize. 

If either of you cannot do that, the marriage will not be fixed.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Despite a lousy sex life, she went out and figured out ways to get herself more interested in sex. Geez, I’d think that men would think it was great that a woman would do this.


We are all shaped by our personal experiences. Since we are only getting one side of the story, the female side in this case we have to imagine what the other side is. 

So, in my case and my experience, from my point of view our sex life has sucked from a freq. Perspective for >10 years. At any given time max 1 per week, more often 1 or 2 per month and occasionally there were 3 or more month gaps. 

Now, up until the last couple of years if you had asked my wife what she thought of our sex life you would pretty much get the posters general attitude minus most of the qualitative complaints because on the rare occasion we would connect it was GOOD

In other words, she was often tired, hates her job etch. But still you know, there were times we had sex every week. Even when we didn't I usually said yes at least 1 or 2 times a month because you know, that's important!

You have a unique ability to impute evil intent on the part of men (some) that is just foreign to me, never enters my mind until you post. You could be right, I could be right, or maybe the truth is a bit in the middle.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Despite a lousy sex life, she went out and figured out ways to get herself more interested in sex. Geez, I’d think that men would think it was great that a woman would do this.


I agree, I think she did the best she could. Then, when she discovered it was a problem for him, she took positive steps to make it better. He's the problem.

I'm not sure why some of the guys have been hitting her past behavior so hard. After all the things he did wrong, she STILL had sex with him.

He went for a hour and required her to have X number of orgasms because that's whet HE needed to feel like he was good in bed. He never cared about her needs. Now that he knows she has needs, he doesn't want to play.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

So your solution is what, tell him he is a jerk? Good luck with that :smthumbup:



Buddy400 said:


> I agree, I think she did the best she could. Then, when she discovered it was a problem for him, she took positive steps to make it better. He's the problem.
> 
> I'm not sure why some of the guys have been hitting her past behavior so hard. After all the things he did wrong, she STILL had sex with him.
> 
> He went for a hour and required her to have X number of orgasms because that's whet HE needed to feel like he was good in bed. He never cared about her needs. Now that he knows she has needs, he doesn't want to play.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

anonmd said:


> We are all shaped by our personal experiences. Since we are only getting one side of the story, the female side in this case we have to imagine what the other side is.
> 
> So, in my case and my experience, from my point of view our sex life has sucked from a freq. Perspective for >10 years. At any given time max 1 per week, more often 1 or 2 per month and occasionally there were 3 or more month gaps.
> 
> ...


When I see something that is very wrong I will talk about it … whether the person is a man or a woman. 

I had thought that her husband was “evil” I would have suggested that she leave him post haste. I would not have suggested that she find a good MC/Sex-therapist to fix their marriage and sex life.

Keep in mind that almost every man who posted on this thread has imputed “evil intent” on the part of the OP. Almost every man ignored that her husband has significant fault in the state of their sex life. She came here for support and instead was harshly attacked.

Few of the men had any problem with her husband’s 13 years of VERY selfish behavior related to sex: refusing foreplay or any sensual/sexual touch during sex; his demanding that she have the number of orgasms that he determined were needed; his HUGE deceit of sneakily taking off the condom during sex (him ignoring that she did not want to get pregnant); and more recently his using porn & masturbation daily and withholding sex with her most of the time. I find that pretty disturbing.

Identifying the contributing problems is the first step for fixing their marriage. He husband is not blameless. His issues need to be addressed as well as hers.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Lots of resentment in this picture.

Again, you created this dynamic together. Expecting him to just come to you without owning your role in how you got here will likely backfire.

As yourself if it is more important to solve the problem and fix your relationship or to blame him.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Wow, I've been on this board for years now, but I'm still stunned by the way a bunch of men can waltz in here and blame the woman for everything. Sigh... Thank God Elegirl and FaithfulWife came in to help.

My take is that at the root, you guys have a communication issue. It sounds like you just can't get through to each other. Will your H try counseling?


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

It sounds like your husband is a lousy and selfish lover. I think this is the case in many sexless marriages. The woman feels like why bother when he won't listen to what she needs and he just takes what he wants. Is there any way he will go to a sex therapist?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Unfortunately I don't think that the OP is coming back.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

It's such a treat to see a post about sexless marriage then find out that 1-4 times a month is this post's definition of sexless !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Unfortunately I don't think that the OP is coming back.


I hope she does, but I understand if she doesn't.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

anonmd said:


> We are all shaped by our personal experiences. Since we are only getting one side of the story, the female side in this case we have to imagine what the other side is.
> 
> So, in my case and my experience, from my point of view our sex life has sucked from a freq. Perspective for >10 years. At any given time max 1 per week, more often 1 or 2 per month and occasionally there were 3 or more month gaps.
> 
> ...



Great, so next time a guy comes in b!tching about either not enough sex or boring vanilla sex you'll consider what her side must be? Or you'll simply assume, like most of the guys here, that she's not living up to her end of the marriage and he should demand boundaries or divorce her?

I've never, ever seen any men on this site try to speculate on what her side might be when a guy comes in here complaining about his sex life.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Great, so next time a guy comes in b!tching about either not enough sex or boring vanilla sex you'll consider what her side must be? Or you'll simply assume, like most of the guys here, that she's not living up to her end of the marriage and he should demand boundaries or divorce her?
> 
> I've never, ever seen any men on this site try to speculate on what her side might be when a guy comes in here complaining about his sex life.


WTF!!

EVERY time a guy comes here with that complaint there is an immediate chorus of what her needs are that he must be ignoring. Fair enough.

How about a balanced view of life. 

OR, just stick with if a guy complains about lack of sex then surely it is all his fault, and if a women complains of lack of sex then surely it's the guys fault.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Oh, the irony.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> He could have low self esteem - that happens with porn and he's expressed some things that might point to this.
> 
> If he has low self esteem - which it seems might - that's a lot tougher because your desire creates additional pressure. Reassurances will help a lot - remember porn has gigantic guys pounding away forever and women screaming with lust and desire - a meek vanilla guy could end up feeling very inadequate if he thinks you are interested in him performing that way. Who knows.
> 
> Good luck


I'm thinking maybe this. He's said some things recently that lead me to believe he is feel self conscious.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> ladyred...What did your husband say when you asked him to stop the porn for a bit of time?
> 
> Also what does he say when you tell him you need more foreplay? Is he just clueless about what foreplay means?


On the porn he said "we'll see". Meaning that I asked him to stop for a while because I felt like it was negatively impacting our sex life. 

So far it has worked. Already there has been an improvement. Whether that continues I don't know. 

As far as foreplay goes when I complain I get a temporary increase in foreplay. But it never lasts more than 30 seconds to a minute.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Why is he now the SAHD and not working? Is he doing all the things that are expected from a stay at home mom? like taking the major role with the children, cleaning house, shopping, cooking, etc.?
> 
> You say that there was no foreplay. Did you orgasms very often or at all? How long were these sexual encounters usually? (I?m trying to get more of an idea of the quality of the sex for you.)
> 
> ...


Yes there was a definite increase in his libido when he knew I could get pregnant. 

As far as the no foreplay thing I thought for quite a while that was just the way most men were. I still think that is the way most men are. How much foreplay do men give their wives? Cause when I beg for foreplay I might get attention on one breast before PIV. 

It was almost always missionary and yeah there is never any clitoris stimulus unless I get him to do doggie style so I can do that myself. 

I have however been more direct about what I want in the past few years. I am unsure currently if that has had any impact on anything or not. 

He is not one that believes women shouldn't get pleasure from sex he just doesn't do anything to increase or help get things going.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> MarriedGuy221 said:
> 
> 
> > You can get yourself in the mood for sex now can't you. You couldn't before for years. That would piss me off frankly and I would not feel very motivated to show more effort than originally shown. That's all I'm saying
> ...


Yes thank you. This is what I thought I was trying to get across.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> ladyred,
> 
> Can you clarify..
> 
> ...


Yes


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

anonmd said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Despite a lousy sex life, she went out and figured out ways to get herself more interested in sex. Geez, I?d think that men would think it was great that a woman would do this.
> ...


Yes exactly. You only see my side. my husband is not a terrible person he has his pluses and minuses just as I do. We have had our ups and downs. It is often hard for someone to see their own part in what is going on. I hope to be able to see my part to work on but no one is perfect.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> You might also be able to see that many men are posting what they think the SPOUSE is thinking, not what THEY are thinking.
> 
> Your opinions and my opinions about the other spouses actions are a small part of it. INSIGHT into what the spouse MIGHT be thinking can be FAR more valuable -- assuming the poster actually wants to communicate with them.


Yes I wanted opinions, thoughts, personal experiences, etc. I wasn't really planning to get into the gritty details of our sex life. For some reason people are assuming I rejected all of his advances but that isn't the case. There was only one time frame where I did because we had three children under the age of five (and 2 miscarriages In between two and three) and I could barely make it from day to day.


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

soccermom2three said:


> It sounds like your husband is a lousy and selfish lover. I think this is the case in many sexless marriages. The woman feels like why bother when he won't listen to what she needs and he just takes what he wants. Is there any way he will go to a sex therapist?


Well this was definitely part of my thought process as I often (in the beginning) tried to let him know what I liked and didn't like. Sometimes it stuck. Like the doggie style. He knows that I love to finish that way. Where as in the beginning he didn't want to do it because he didn't think he'd like it so it took me about 6 months of mentioning I wanted to try it that way before we did. Then another month or two before he'd do it again. But now it is part of 75% of our sex at least at the end. He refused to go down on me for at least the first 9-10 years of our marriage. He said it was nasty. But I guess he figured out it was nasty with his first wife because he has actually done it for me about four or five times in the last few years. So small steps.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ladyred said:


> As far as the no foreplay thing I thought for quite a while that was just the way most men were. I still think that is the way most men are. How much foreplay do men give their wives? Cause when I beg for foreplay I might get attention on one breast before PIV.


Both men and women can be good or can be crappy lovers.

So there are some men who understand good foreplay, and some men who don't. Just as there are men who want foreplay who have wives who don't want it.

This is not something that is easily changed, but you will definitely have to be more assertive than you have been so far. "Mentioning" what you want is not going to be effective. You will have to give more specific direction and then get him to do it NOW or the next time you make love, don't wait around and hope he remembers to do it.

This will be hard and you'll likely have to get kind of bossy about it.

But maybe he will like that?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

anonmd said:


> WTF!!
> 
> EVERY time a guy comes here with that complaint there is an immediate chorus of what her needs are that he must be ignoring. Fair enough.
> 
> ...


Not one woman has said that it's all the guys fault is his wife does not want sex. 

Instead we do give a balanced view. Find out what the problem is. HN/HN is a good way to go about that. The book is not about the woman's needs only. It's about his needs to. The two people are supposed to read the book together and (gasp) actually talk, communicate and explore their needs. It's a MUTUAL thing. 

But apparently the idea that a couple can solve their own problems together with some guidance is against some rule that some (not all) men have.



anonmd said:


> and if a women complains of lack of sex then surely it's the guys fault.


You seem to be missing the fine points here.

The OP and her husband both contributed to their issues. But there are some things that he did that are not good at all. Most of the men here completely ignored them. And the men jumped all over the OP as though her husband had been perfect and she had all of the fault.

If a man refuses his wife foreplay always, makes very sex encounter 1-1.5 hours of pounding away but she gets little to nothing out of it, then he insists that she have some number of organisms that he makes up... how is this ok? How do you not see that this kind of sex life is emotionally hurtful .. very hurtful?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Lol you TAM ladies really crack me up! You personalize every post and use it to bash men. You aren't very good at listening though.
> 
> Many times a poster needs insight into what their spouse is saying, not a bunch of people to take their side and shout "evil spouse! You have been so mistreated! Waaaa waaaaaa!" But that's what you seem to enjoy.
> 
> ...


I guess you missed the post where one of the men on here posted that he filled in the 'rest of the story' based on his own personal trauma. 

Yes she can use input on what her husband might be thinking. Most of it was not presented as what he might be thinking. It was presented as she was a horrible woman.

There are a lot types of input that are helpful to a person. Yes hearing what her husband might be thinking is only one of them. Some support to tell her other aspects that people see, to include support for her is also helpful.

I have yet to see one thread on TAM in which a man came here to talk about his sexless/near-sexless marriage in which the men posting give any thought to what his wife might be thinking and going through. Generally if a female perspective is give, the poster giving it is shouted out of the thread. 

So please spear us this holier than thou nonsense.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ladyred said:


> Yes there was a definite increase in his libido when he knew I could get pregnant.
> 
> As far as the no foreplay thing I thought for quite a while that was just the way most men were. I still think that is the way most men are. How much foreplay do men give their wives? Cause when I beg for foreplay I might get attention on one breast before PIV.
> 
> It was almost always missionary and yeah there is never any clitoris stimulus unless I get him to do doggie style so I can do that myself.


Most women are not built in a way that they can have an orgasm from PIV. The clitoris just does not get enough stimulation from PIV. PIV is great. Would not want sex without it. But for most women that is just not where orgasms come from.

There are some women who do not want a lot of foreplay. What some have told me is that they get too sensitive and cannot take the touch. 

But most women need more than PIV. Most want more than PIV. I think that most men like it too. For one thing foreplay is not a one sided thing. There is a lot that a woman can do for the guy in foreplay as well. It's called 'play' for a reason. I wonder if there are any good videos or porn that are focused just on the foreplay. Watching that might help you.

Another thing that might help is for you to show your husband how he can benefit from foreplay. Watch some videos/porn. Then tell him to lay back and that you are going to just drive him nuts. See if he would do that.

Maybe he'll like it enough to reciprocate. 



ladyred said:


> I have however been more direct about what I want in the past few years. I am unsure currently if that has had any impact on anything or not.
> 
> He is not one that believes women shouldn't get pleasure from sex he just doesn't do anything to increase or help get things going.


Either he's completely ignorant on what women need sexually or he does not care. 

If he's always watched porn, that might be where he's getting the idea of no foreplay, banging for hours, and that you should be having some number of organisms. 

Maybe you could find some softer porn or erotic porn for the two of you to watch together.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Not one woman has said that it's all the guys fault is his wife does not want sex.
> 
> Instead we do give a balanced view. Find out what the problem is. HN/HN is a good way to go about that. The book is not about the woman's needs only. It's about his needs to. The two people are supposed to read the book together and (gasp) actually talk, communicate and explore their needs. It's a MUTUAL thing.


Not much time to respond at the moment, I'm not ignoring the rest of your post . 

So what is Harley's solution / approach for the women to take AFTER the guy's likely primary need (Sex) has been minimized and ignored for 5 or 10 years and he has shut down? Maybe I missed it, maybe I need to read the book again, or maybe it wasn't there. 

He is very good at explaining to men that her primary needs are likely everything BUT sex, likely top three amongst the list of quality time, intimate conversation, quality parenting and financial support (how am I doing, this is from memory). 

He does a good job of explaining to her that his primary needs are likely amongst the group of Sex, recreational companionship, domestic support etc. 

So when the guy complains of no sex it certainly makes sense to explain to the oblivious fool that she has all these other needs and if you would only dedicate your life to addressing at least her top 3 and yes, take this survey together because it will identify her top 3 and show sex at #5 or 7 or 9 or 10 so address the top 3 or 4 and surely she will come around. 

That's a plan of action, it might actually work. It also might not because you've ignored her primary needs and she might have switched off and be unreachable by now, yes? 

What is the plan for the women, say his top needs are Sex #1, recreational companionship #2 and domestic support. So what's the plan if now after 5 or 10 years you actually want sex but he isn't playing along. 

Do you think arranging for more domestic bliss and joining a co-ed softball league is going to switch it back on? I doubt it. You can't really address his primary need because he is not playing ball, #2 and #3 may have not been all that important to him either. SO WHAT'S THE PLAN? 

As step 1 some of the men were trying to get the OP to understand the source of the issue and acknowledge it without excuses. We know the female libido drops for all sorts of reasons, those reasons are immaterial to her current problem. We also tend to be direct on this subject and say things like "well what did you expect?"

Other men are equally direct but largely stuck on bitter and resentful. 

Only after acknowledgement can progress be made. You know, it's like when the guy comes here, you ask some questions and his first three responses are "Yes but, no matter what I do there is no sex", "Yes but, I did the dishes and she turned me down for a month" etc. etc. 

For the record, I think this guy is no prize and yes - I acknowledge lot's of things he has done are probably very hurtful. She has to reach him first though...


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Yes she can use input on what her husband might be thinking. Most of it was not presented as what he might be thinking. It was presented as she was a horrible woman.
> 
> There are a lot types of input that are helpful to a person. Yes hearing what her husband might be thinking is only one of them. Some support to tell her other aspects that people see, to include support for her is also helpful.
> 
> ...


Evidently the way the men tend to present things is problematic. So perhaps a direct quote from His Needs, Her Needs will go down a little easier. On page 50 of the kindle edition in the chapter after Dr. Harley has informed the men of a long laundry list of things they are probably doing wrong and / or more likely are misinformed about he provides this gem of information directed to the wives:



> *Why Men Feel Cheated*
> 
> When a man chooses a wife, he promises to remain faithful to her for life. This means he believes his wife will be his only sexual partner "until death do us part." He makes this commitment because he trusts her to be as sexually interested in him as he is in her. He trusts her to be available to him whenever he has a need for sex, just as she trusts him to meet her emotional needs.
> 
> Unfortunately, in many marriages, the man finds that putting his trust in this women has turned into one of the biggest mistakes of his life. He has agreed to limit his sexual experience to a wife who is unwilling to meet that vital need. He finds himself up the proverbial creek without a paddle. If his religious or moral convictions are strong, he may try to make the best of it. Some husbands tough it out, but many cannot. They find sex elsewhere.


From the book of Harley. Very often abbreviated to "What did you expect?" Because men tend to look for the problem (wife wants sex now X years in but didn't up to now) and offer solutions, or in this case the source of the problem (the up to now part did damage). 

It would be better to spell it all out. On the other hand, the instantaneous response in shorthand by a bunch of men might also have some value in making the woman realize maybe she didn't know everything she thought she knew.:scratchhead:


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Lila said:


> Could you point out where the OP said she stopped meeting her husband's sexual needs?


Absolutely:



> When I got pregnant and my libido nose dived. I never instigated sex but would give it to him and pretend for him. Now I know that sounds harsh to "pretend" to enjoy it but I just wasn't interested and I didn't want to hurt his feelings.
> 
> When I wasn't pregnant I often didn't want sex because I didn't want to get pregnant. *He refused to wear condoms and even if I talked him into wearing one by the end of our sex session he would no longer be wearing one.* So I stayed away from sex so as not to get pregnant.


The bold part is of course horrendous douche-bag behavior on his part.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Related of course to what the OP state was the problem:



> Ok so after all that we are down to *what the problem* is...now that I want more sex he has decided he doesn't want sex. At first I was just a little frustrated because I was deliberately getting myself in the mood only to be frustrated by not getting any.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

It brings to mind some dialogue from the 1986 movie Top Gun which the ladies would not understand , but basically he needs to first be convinced to re-engage. 

Only after the give a damn meter comes off the bottom peg can the other issues be addressed, and that would be well after.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

And there it is, it's his fault.

:rofl:

But he's not asking how to solve it. 

Too bad he isn't even slightly more defensible .


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rock on, Lila!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> H
> 
> 
> Selective vision. Condom use DID NOT prevent her from having sex. How about the pill? Diaphragm? IUD?
> ...


Lack of condom use and her husband's total disregard for her requests protect her from pregnancy was the problem. 

She explained that she was nursing a baby. She could not take certain chemical/hormonal birth control. There was some issue with IUDs. She said that her husband was aware of what was going on and was part of the decisions.

Some women have a very hard time with birth control methods. Bottom line is that she does not owe anyone on this site her medical history. She can decide what birth control she is willing to use. They all have risks. so it's her choice.

Since her husband was putting her at risk for pregnancy she has the right to not have sex. She set a boundary and enforced it. Then she got her tubes tied so that there were no issues.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

I agree with Lila on this - the OP doesn't need to express remorse about this. And while I do agree that taking off a condom when his W expressly doesn't want to get pregnant is indeed a douchey thing to do... Well, you can't unring a bell and expecting *his* apologies for past deeds is likely to be as unproductive.

I agree with MG, moving forward to solution should be the focus. But blame needs to be removed from the equation. Particularly since there is enough on both sides that, like algebra, they cancel out. 

This is about opening a dialogue starting from some kind of common ground.

Does your H like to cuddle? Can you simply start by sitting near him quietly? Give him a backrub without expectation? Hold his hand?

Loving sex is born of intimacy. I would start building intimacy back... it will take time if you two have been out of synch for years. Meantime, I suggest discreet use of toys to take away urgency.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Wife doesn't have the right not to have sex. That's abandoning the marriage. I suppose you think it would be ok for a husband to stop all communication with his wife?


The wife shouldn't deny sex. The H shouldn't deny sex. Also, the husband doesn't have the right to risk impregnating his wife if she doesn't want it. The rest of your example is just hyperbole, so I will ignore it as irrelevant.

I agree with Lila, my opinion is this is past ascribing blame. There is plenty to go around from both here. 

Do you have a suggestion for a *solution* moving forward?


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

OP. Your husband is a selfish jerk. 

You deserve someone who loves and desires you and cares about your sexual satisfaction. 

Nothing will change unless you make it clear that you won't stick around if he doesn't step up, make a real effort and go to counselling.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I deleted the thread jack posts. From here on out only address the OP directly.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Finish cleaning it up. Remove your posts that refer to posts that are gone. They are argumentative and inappropriate.


You missed a few. Let me take care of that for you.


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