# How Much Detail?



## EI

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Update: 2/11/2015

This thread was was originally posted in June, 2012. Since that time, with communication, compassion, understanding, and forgiveness, my husband and I have now happily reconciled. I have chosen to leave this thread open because others have found our story to be helpful in their own journey towards reconciliation. Please don't read the first post and then leave disparaging comments, without having skimmed through it to see how it ends. Thank you. 

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I've been reading this forum for several months. It's been very helpful but this is a topic that I have yet to find on here. My question is how much information is too much information? My husband and I have been married for 28 years and I had an affair. It went on for 16 months, ending only two weeks ago, when my husband noticed a number on our cell phone bill that I was repeatedly calling and texting. 

To make a long story short, my husband wants to save our marriage and is now becoming the husband that I have needed him to be for the last several years. We are talking more than we have in years... maybe ever. He is addressing my needs in ways that he had virtually ignored. My concern is that he, sometimes, asks for very explicit details of the sexual part of my affair. It's difficult for me to give him these graphic details because I am afraid that they will only haunt him and play over and over in his mind. He says that his imagination is what is torturing him. 

My husband is a good man, a good provider, and a good father, but he gave me very little emotional and physical intimacy throughout most of our marriage and none in the last several years. I went to counseling alone for a few years and he and I had a few sessions together. I got myself in the best physical and emotional shape possible and I tried very hard to make him understand that I was dying inside from the loneliness, isolation, and emptiness. I told him that I could no longer live this way and, still, he made no changes. I desperately wanted to save my marriage. The harder I tried the more he withdrew from me. I told him that I couldn't live that way any longer and that I wasn't going to live my life without passion. Still nothing.

In my loneliness, I reached out to an old love from my teen years. It sounds so stupid and cliche. My AP was divorced, and after talking/texting for a few weeks, we started an affair. I fell head over heels in love.... not just lust or infatuation.... love. The physical intimacy has always been lacking in my relationship with my husband. Well, the physical intimacy with my AP was like nothing I have ever experienced. I had no idea that it could really be that way. I know that that is exactly what my husband fears. So, when he asks for details, just how much detail do I share? He wants to know what we said to one another, where we were, how I felt, how many orgasms I had, how many times we had sex, if he touched me like this, or like that, did he massage my back, my feet, etc. The sad part is that my husband is now trying to be all of the things that he has never been. It feels so forced to me and, honestly, I have no desire for him now. That breaks my heart because I truly don't want to see him hurting this way. 

Before anyone condemns me for my affair, please remember that I was faithful for nearly 27 years, and I begged him to help me save our marriage. I hurt so much, for so long, that I physically ached inside. I used to tell my husband that I was starving, and his response was that he wasn't hungry. Now, he's starving and I can't bear to see him in so much pain, but I am no longer in love with him. Whether I end up with my AP in the long run is beside the point. My husband should not be my second choice, nor should I settle for my second choice. Even if I end up alone, I feel like my husband should have the opportunity to find a love in his life who can give him her whole heart. He says that he has found the "love of his life," and that it's me.

Again, when he asks for graphic details, how do I answer these questions? I have cut off all contact with my AP until my husband and I can sort this out. But, it's killing me inside and my husband knows that. He's trying to help me through my pain, and I know that I should be helping him through his.

Thanks, and I'm sorry this is so long.


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## aug

> *Well, the physical intimacy with my AP was like nothing I have ever experienced. I had no idea that it could really be that way.*


16 month affair is a long time. Are you sure you can give that up? You know, the affair is always a part of you now.

I think your husband wants to find out how much of your lover has now been engrained into you. He'll need the info so that he can decide for himself his future.

Note that his trust in you has disappeared, his actions notwithstanding. It's up to you if you want to reinforce the lack of trust or not.

He's got tough decision to make. And you have to decide for yourself what type of person you are -- or want to be.


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## MattMatt

Are you having counselling as a couple?

Others will be able to advise you as to how to handle it, because people handle things differently. When my wife had an affair I did not want to know any details, but my situation was different, my wife told me that she was going to have an affair before she started so there was no moment of discovery of an on-going affair. 

My best wishes to both of you.


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## warlock07

Well, I stayed ok for 30 years of my life and then killed a couple of people. Now people call me a murderer. Not fair


You paint yourself as a victim. Why did you not divorce?


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## MattMatt

warlock07 said:


> Well, I stayed ok for 30 years of my life and then killed a couple of people. Now people call me a murderer. Not fair
> 
> 
> You paint yourself as a victim. Why did you not divorce?


Actually, if someone was certified as criminally insane when they murdered people, they might not be called a murderer, so perhaps your point is a good one, Warlock?


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## EleGirl

One of the problems with an affair is that the BS is completely cut out of that experience. One of the reasons that BSs ask so many questions is that they want to become part of the experience. Believe it or not, but knowing as much as possible can actually bring you closer.. it's like taking him to see a movie with you that you saw before without him. Now you both have lived through the movie together.

If there is a chance to save your marriage, it will be by you answering his questions. Yes it will hurt him. But eventually the truth will stop his imagination from running wild. 

Yes sometimes he will be hurt and even angry by what you tell him. But you need put it all out there and let the chips fall where they may. Anything less is continued lying.


You really should not look at your AP as a fall back situation. Less than 3% of affairs survive very long. Your affair requires the dynamics of your failing marriage to survive.

I think that the two of you would benefit greatly from reading, discussing and working through a very good series of books. The first is "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harely. The others are linked to in my signature block below for building a passionate marriage.

Has your husband been able to shed any light on why he was so cold to you for so long in the past? This is very important.


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## TBT

Hi EI and welcome.I don't want to condemn you,but I would like to say from your post that it sounds like a lot of it is driven from your guilt because deep down you know what you did was wrong no matter what the circumstances.

You should just move on imo.You said you don't love your H and you're in love with the OM so don't prolong his pain so you can attempt to ease your conscience.So you should just go and be with the OM and in time your H will move on and be happy again.Truthfully it sounds like you're mostly out the door of his life anyway you just need to take the final step.


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## Complexity

I hope this forum will be of help emptyinside, just a word of warning though, expect alot of harsh responses as this section is for the betrayed and your post can illicit very painful memories.

Regarding your question, do not tickle truth, as painful as it will be, he's demanding answers and you should provide them. I can certainly sympathise that your husband was negligent of your pleas for intimacy and his coldness certainly played a part in pushing you to the affair. However and I echo EleGirl's post here, your AP is not your knight in shinning armour, he's a man with questionable morals and indeed if you do decide to leave your husband for him, I'm sure you wouldn't be content with a relationship built on deceit and adultery. It will not survive. They cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.

If a man in 16 months can wipe out 28 years then by all means divorce your husband and abate his torture. However if you're repentant and willing to redeem yourself and lose the cheater label, cut all contact with the other man and give your husband a chance.


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## warlock07

MattMatt said:


> Actually, if someone was certified as criminally insane when they murdered people, they might not be called a murderer, so perhaps your point is a good one, Warlock?


No wonder you see so many temporary insanity pleas these days. And I think they are still a murderer if they are called one or not.


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## EI

Yes, Aug, 16 months is a long time and the affair didn't stop because I wanted it to, it stopped because I got caught. I don't know if I can give him up. I may not have a choice. My AP has never been comfortable with the fact that I am married and has, at times, begged me to stay away from him until I make a decision about my marriage. I'm in love with my AP. Because I was convinced that my husband could not possibly be in love with me, I was able to convince my AP that that was the case, also. But, when my husband called the "unknown" cell number and a man answered, my husband simply said "wrong number" and hung up and then asked me who he was. My AP knew that the caller must have been my husband since it was a man calling from my home number. Now, my AP is convinced that my husband cares more than I have let on and he is consumed with guilt. He will not see me, again, unless the ink is dry on my divorce papers and I am no longer living in the same home as my husband. Then, he still makes no promises because he doesn't like the way our relationship began. He has a very difficult time resisting me when we see one another in person so he has asked me to stay away, for now, and I know that I have to do so until I make a decision (or one is made for me.)

The truth is, even if I am never with my AP again, I don't feel the type of desire for my husband that I used to.... that I need to be able to have a real marriage. I was so in love with my husband, I really was. I put him on a pedestal so high that his lack of desire for me left me feeling terribly deficient. Although he is a very good man, he often tried to make me feel ashamed for expressing my needs. He would say things like, "It's only sex, is it really that important?" His response to my saying that I was starving was that 'he wasn't hungry.' He mastered the art of touch-less lovemaking. We could go for months at a time without any sexual contact and then, when we did have sex, it was just 5 minutes, in the missionary position, on/off.... the end. No kissing, no touching, no foreplay. I never had orgasms with him and he even tried to imply that I was somehow "broken." I knew that I wasn't and I offered to show him how to please me and that seemed to horrify him. He has always been very sexually inhibited. We starting dating in high school and, even then, I had a higher sex drive. We now know that he had low testosterone levels and he is, now, taking T injections. A part of me thinks that since he is all full of Testosterone that he wants to "use" me to satisfy his (new found) needs. I find it ironic since he used to become angry when I would try to talk to him about mine. In the last month or so he had started trying to touch me again. We haven't been intimate in over a year. I told him last year that I was never going to "ask" for sex from him again. I have had enough rejection from him to last a lifetime. He didn't seem to be bothered by it. I moved out of our bedroom. We had become roommates, co-parents, sharing a household.... nothing more. So, with no improvement in the state of our marriage, after 28 years, he wants to act like a sex-crazed teenager. It is difficult for me to understand. He actually started acting this way a few weeks before he learned of my affair. I think that his "new attitude" is what caused his antennae to finally start detecting that things were amiss in our relationship. I'm not sure what he has been thinking for the last year. 

I can maintain no contact with my AP (for now).... but that does not change what I know in my mind and what I feel in my heart. Everything I see, do, hear, feel.... everything is a trigger to a memory with my AP. He may not even resume a relationship with me later, but I don't think that I will ever recover my desire for my husband. But, I don't want to hurt him, either.  He insists that he loves me and wants to work on us. I never imagined that this is the direction my life would take. Our children are young adults and I can not bear the thought of turning their world upside down with a divorce. A divorce would shatter us financially. There are so many details to our story.... details that would explain why ending this marriage seems to be almost impossible. But, our situation is so specific, I fear that if I gave any more information that someone I know would read this story and know it is about me. I wish that I could forget about my AP, be madly in love with my husband and that my family could live happily ever after, but that's a fairy tale and we all know that fairy tales are not real.


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## warlock07

So the OM dumped you ? So do you really want to try to reconcile or just setting up yourself for failure so that you don't look bad before your OM. And from the looks of it, the OM may not take you back. Is that why you are trying for R?

Why wasn't divorce an option?


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## EleGirl

I can truly understand a lot of what you feel. I was married to a man who was fairly HD. In the early years of our relationship we had a great sex life. But after some time he started treating me the way your husband has treated you in the past. The main difference is that mine was cheating as well. The no touch sex is a horrible thing. At some point he also would not allow me to touch him during sex. If I did he would get angry and yell at me. He pulled my hair a few times out of this anger. 

What you have been through with your husband is indeed painful 
There is a possibility that you can recover your marriage and even build a new passion. It would take a lot of work. He would have to make some sincere, permanent changes.


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## EI

Warlock 07, the OM hasn't dumped me. He has asked me not to try to see him until I make a decision and follow through with it. It is my husband who desires to attempt to reconcile. Since D-Day, I have been honest with him about my feelings for the OM. I don't actually think that there is a lot of hope for our marriage now, but my husband is asking me to try. I do love him and I love our family. But, the love I feel for my husband, now, is more of a familial love. There were many good parts of our marriage throughout the years. Like so many "cheaters," I am not trying to rewrite our history or make my husband out to be the bad guy. If anything, I feel the need to protect him. We haven't had an easy time in the last several years. Caregiving for aging parents (who have since passed away,) raising a large family, including a special needs son, financial issues, etc., have all taken their toll on the two of us. I used to feel that he and I were a team. It was us against the world. I always believed that when the kids were grown, the bills were paid, the.....blah, blah, blah, etc.... that he and I would finally have "our time" together, that we would reconnect or even simply "connect." A couple of years ago, I realized that we were not only not on the same page, we weren't even reading the same book. I was talking to a brick wall. My husband didn't look at me, he looked over, under and around but never at me. I didn't choose to stop loving him.... my love just withered and died. But, because of my love for our children, our special needs son, our financial situation, a house that is upside down that we will probably never be able to sell, the fact that I have been a stay-at-home mom for 20 years and would likely have a very hard time finding employment that I could actually support myself with, a divorce seems to be a bit unrealistic. But, as I told my therapist, when you wake up every day and wish that you hadn't, you know that you have to make a change. I had become so depressed that for 3 years I could barley get off of the couch. I took care of our children, the house, the necessities, but mostly I wished to die. I got tired of living that way, I got up, went to therapy, started taking care of myself physically and emotionally and hoped that my husband would see the changes and want to come along for the ride. His lack of desire for me pre-dates my 3 year affair with the couch! In fact, he seemed happier during those years because I didn't ask for anything from him. I felt unworthy. When I wanted things to improve I did not set about to ask my husband to change. I changed me first.


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## BrokenMan

Hello Empty Inside. Just thought I would pop in and give my feelings on this. I think you should just tell your husband the truth. You have said about his pain, and not wanting to see him hurting but in my personal experience it's the lies that have hurt the most. The lies my wife fed to me, the lies she said to others, they are what cleaved my heart in two. 

I truly believe that you should just be honest. You no longer feel love for your husband, you don't want to be in your marriage, and you no longer have desire for him, so instead of stringing him along, tell him. Even after what you have done, your husband still feels like your marriage is worth saving and is putting in so much effort for NO REASON. Please don't continue lying. You've lied to your husband for 16 months.

Oh, and just a quick final thing. You put in your original post that your husband is a good man, a good provider, and a good father, but not up to your standards in the bedroom (explained in your next post that he had low testosterone). The only point you've really made about your AP is that he is everything your husband isn't in bed. Wow, great trade off.

I was a good, attentive husband. I worked hard to earn money to provide for my wife and children. I spent my non-working hours with my family, enjoying their company. My wife and children were my LIFE. My WW's excuse for cheating? I didn't make her feel like part of the family! She said that most men don't spend a lot of time with their families (total rubbish), and that because I was so involved it was like I didn't need her there.


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## NiceGuy_Sam1971

deleted


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## NiceGuy_Sam1971

delete


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## EI

EleGirl, thank you for your thoughtful and kind responses. Thank all of you. If I couldn't handle the, sometimes, harsh words, I wouldn't be here. I'm really trying to do the right thing under the circumstances. At this point, I'm not sure what the right thing is. I need some insight and I think that this board is very helpful. Humans make mistakes... all of us. I can't speak for all cheating spouses, but I do know that we hurt, too. People have affairs for many reasons, but mostly, I assume, it is simply to feel something. For so long, I have been "Empty Inside."


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## warlock07

You will have to give him the complete truth at some point. Better now than later. Give him detail but don't be too graphic.


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## Rihanna

I say share the truth. It is another way to reestablish intimacy with your husband. If you share it all and still don't feel attracted to H then your marriage may be dead. In which case perhaps you divorce & start a new life. Forget the OM. He won't want you either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround

Yes, satisfy his questions. Even schedule time to do it if he wants so you can avoid any meltdowns at inconvenient times.

There are a lot of things that the BS /BP is looking for. Is there something that they could have done differently to have avoided the need for their partner to have an affair? What was the WP getting from the AP.......that the BP might be able to duplicate and so on. 

Yes, I do wonder about the EA that my bf had. I know from looking at the texts that he shared things with her about our sex life. And lack thereof, since he withheld it from me while he was seeing her......and then she had the nerve to use that as a reason for him to dump me and date her.......round and round it goes.

My bf was trying to frame her as "Just a friend" which could have meant that I would be expected to play host and entertain her. Now who the **** wants to do that?

I also think that when the WP answers these questions, they are also forcing themselves to rethink their choices and have an opportunity to understand why they chose to do that. 

since my bf and I are on the verge of getting married, I don't want ex gf's and other female friends appearing, creating situations in which he feels he must be their knight in shining armour or some such. I am glad to have gotten this situation settled before marriage.

I would agree that answering his questions in a factually and emotionally truthful way will help you both whether you both decide to stay together or not.


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## TexasFlyer

1. Do not think you are protecting your husband. This is a joke. You are only protecting yourself and the embarrassment this causes you. Answer ALL OF HIS QUESTIONS! ALL OF THEM. This will help him heal! 

2. YOU left the marriage. It sounds like you are codependent, and that you were expecting him to make you happy when the only person you can control is yourself.

3. Find a different therapist. Find one for BOTH OF YOU to go to. I highly suggest a sex therapist as they will be ready help with a fountain of knowledge regarding how to disclose information. Trickle truths are so painful and sickening, it will literally cause your husband to die inside.

4. If you really think the grass is greener on the other side, you should have tried watering your own lawn. 

You are in the 'Fog' and need to get out. You need to, whether you 'love' your husband or not, get to a sex therapist and work through the underlying issues. To me, and some others, you've made yourself out to be the victim.. That it was tough to be a stay at home mom, that you needed something extra your husband wasn't providing.. It's sad that you couldn't taken up a hobby, a part time job, a something. You chose an affair. Affairs take a lot of energy, time, emotion, support and nuturing. Imagine if you had spent that time and effort on your marriage! Getting the right help. 

I feel for your husband, and I know that you are in a confusing place.. But you will need to answer ALL of his questions, no matter how many times he asks them. You need to both go to counseling, and you need to have NO CONTACT with the other man. 

The victim doesn't put the effort into deceiving her family for 16 mos.. The victim doesn't nuture a relationship with her AP while lying to her family.. Cowgirl up, but on the big girl panties, and do the right thing. Your husband loves you, work on it, and you'll be surprised where you end up.. As for you AP, he's stringing you along, telling you the right words. He's using those phrases to keep you married as that is part of his fantasy. How do you know he is going to be around if you leave for good.. He wanted a married woman, now, not so much because the possibility of you being single is real. There won't be as much excitement for him either knowing that you are doing this with him without the added element of danger and taboo. He played you like a fiddle. You were feeling lonely, lost, victimized.. You're codependent, and he knew exactly what to say to get you in to a relationship. What's the rate of success for relationships started during an affair that continue on through divorce??


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## cpacan

My wife had an affair for 9 months, this is 14 months ago now. We are still struggling with the aftermath of the infidelity.

I can tell you, that the absolut worst things are:

1. The trickle truth where you have to drag everything out of her. She would only reveal what she sensed that I had physical proof of. This is so frustrating. Tell him every f****** detail as much or less graphic that he wants it to be. His imagination will kill probably him otherwise.

2. Not knowing for a fact, that she still loves me. If you don't love him anymore, get the h*** out of there. Show him that much respect. Don't waste his precious time and let him find a new partner that will have him, love him and respect him.
And no, I don't care about financials, kids etc. etc.

You say that you don't know if you will let OM go or not, you better find out, because you won't be able to reconnect with your husbond untill you are free of other relationships...

Don't say that you will stay for your husbonds sake, that will not be in his best interest if you are not there emotionally.

I repeat: Don't waste each others time left.


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## Rmommy22

First of all I will answer the question of how many details to share: All of them. He is the one betrayed and is asking for answers, give him the respect of answering all of his questions and not holding back information. 
This includes your comments about not loving him in the right way anymore. He needs to know all the facts so he can make an informed decision about what he does with his life. If he thinks you are with him in R and you are just stringing him along, you are screwing up his life more than you already have.

Secondly, I just want to say this. Take repsonsibility for your own actions. I do not see in any of your posts where you actually take blame for the A. You and shifting blame to your husband. If things were so bad and he did not want to work on them, you should have looked into divorce or more aggressive therapy...something. Having an A is never the answer. Somehow I do not believe you really see the problem in this. You can not see that YOU made a choice. It no longer counts that you are embarrassed about your choice and the details of what transpired. Be open and honest; and seriously take a step back and look at how you are 100% to blame for the affair. The problems in the marriage can be split, but the A is all on you.


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## mahike

I know I am jumping in late but to hell with your pain. Your choices caused that pain. The pain he is suffering was not his choice but yours.

You should be a 100% focused on helping him through this. Call a MC and get you both in as soon as possible.

The other comment that turns my stomach is he is becoming the husband I always wanted him to be. What about the wife he wanted, one that did not drop her clothes an spread her legs for another man.

Your post is a lot of BS, Grow up and put on the big girl pants. You caused all of this. He did not force you to screw another man.

Now focus on what he needs! Get yourself into IC right away as well because you cheated for almot a 1 1/2 you will call that POS if you do not get yourself out of this fog.

28 years down the tubes because of your selfish act.


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## aug

Simply put, you committed adultery.

What your husband has to decide is what to do about it. It'll most likely take him quite a while to process the adultery, given what you had written about his reactions to the discovery.

You mentioned almost 30 years of marriage -- that makes you in the 50's? Your age, your family financial position, your special needs son, etc, do not really matter if he cant accept the adultery, I would assume.

I think he has a hard decision to make about how he's going to spend the rest of his life.


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## happyman64

EI,

I appreciate your candidness but I truly do not think you are being honest with yourself.

You need to face the facts.

You say you do not want to hurt your husband with the facts and details of the A.

Too late. You already blew up your husbands world, your marriage and your family. You really need to come clean with all of his questions. he needs to hear the blunt truth about your feelings of love for the OM and the details of the sex right down to how many orgasms you had. He deserves the truth! Not what you deem is hurtful. Everything you tell him will hurt.

You said you first improved yourself.

Wow. Getting yourself in shape physically and spiritually and then having an Affair is great self improvement. You see the word "self". It is short for selfish.

So you cheated and then you got caught. You have now lost all rights in your marriage. 

Your husband deserves only two things from you. The truth and closure. You do not decide what version of the truth. You need to be honest with all the answers to his questions. It is up to him to see if he still loves you after all the details. 

You had the choice to do the right thing and Divorce him. Instead you got selfish. You decided to lie and cheat on your marriage. You broke your vows.

So if you still love your husband "familial" my ass you owe it to him to give him the answers. He needs to know who the new and self improved woman is that he is still married to.

And in the end if you are so in love after only "16" thats right 16 months versus 28 years then move out on your own and Divorce.

The hurt has already happened. You have been lying to him for a year and a half. As neglectful as he has been in the marriag you took that neglect to an all time high.

There is no justification that you can say here that denies you from telling him all the truth.

I am glad that you came here. That was a good first step. Now take a few more and come clean. He deserves to hear it from your mouth.

Good Luck and I hope this gives you the courage to do the right thing at this time in your life.

HM64

PS
If your OM was so damn great he would still be married and not being the OM and breaking up your marriage. You two probably deserve each other.


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## Fvstringpicker

EleGirl said:


> One of the problems with an affair is that the BS is completely cut out of that experience. One of the reasons that BSs ask so many questions is that they want to become part of the experience. Believe it or not, but knowing as much as possible can actually bring you closer.. it's like taking him to see a movie with you that you saw before without him. Now you both have lived through the movie together.


Dang Ele, you make it sound almost voyeuristic. Why not just have a three way.  

E.I., sounds like you're basically through with your husband and have been for a long time. Once you hit that low, you're unlikely to ever get the feeling back. You tried to communicate your concerns a long time and he ignored it. At the risk of giving a somewhat cold comparison, a machine needs maintenance. If the operator ignores the maintenance the machine quits working. That's what happened to you. The same thing happened to me with my first wife. I married at 22 and was true blue until I was 36. I went through the same thing you did. One day I gave up and started an affair. In the years that followed, I "slept" with well over 20 women, most were married. When I finally packed up an left, my X wife wanted to reconcile. I had a choice. I could go back to the X knowing she would eventually turn back into a ice burg, or I could find someone who considered me more than just a meal ticket. I chose the latter about 18 years ago. I made the right choice. I think the only reason your old man now has his hat in hand is because he's losing and if you go back, it won't be long before he's up to his old self. Believe me, if its anything like you describe, I understand where you're coming from.


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## mahike

Fvstringpicker said:


> Dang Ele, you make it sound almost voyeuristic. Why not just have a three way.
> 
> E.I., sounds like you're basically through with your husband and have been for a long time. Once you hit that low, you're unlikely to ever get the feeling back. You tried to communicate your concerns a long time and he ignored it. At the risk of giving a somewhat cold comparison, a machine needs maintenance. If the operator ignores the maintenance the machine quits working. That's what happened to you. The same thing happened to me with my first wife. I married at 22 and was true blue until I was 36. I went through the same thing you did. One day I gave up and started an affair. In the years that followed, I "slept" with well over 20 women, most were married. When I finally packed up an left, my X wife wanted to reconcile. I had a choice. I could go back to the X knowing she would eventually turn back into a ice burg, or I could find someone who considered me more than just a meal ticket. I chose the latter about 18 years ago. I made the right choice. I think the only reason your old man now has his hat in hand is because he's losing and if you go back, it won't be long before he's up to his old self. Believe me, if its anything like you describe, I understand where you're coming from.


Wow advice from a POS AP that puts all the blame on his wife, Nice


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## cpacan

Fvstringpicker said:


> I think the only reason your old man now has his hat in hand is because he's losing and if you go back, it won't be long before he's up to his old self. Believe me, if its anything like you describe, I understand where you're coming from.


Wtf...? If anything like you describe, you talk with your husbond and change together! You don't cheat. If this is not an option, you move on and divorce. Plain and simple.

If it's true that husbond will turn back into his old self, then OP will also turn back into a cheater - once a cheater or...?


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## Fvstringpicker

mahike said:


> Wow advice from a POS AP that puts all the blame on his wife, Nice


Like it or not mahike, if my X wife would have gave it up a little more often, ( the marriage was virtually absence of sex), not constantly bitc*** about not having this and that, treat my family like they were dirt, not refused MC, I may not have taken the low road. 

1. Am I a POS, as you put it, for going down that road. Yes I am. 

2. Am I like a monkey that don't turn loose of one limb before he has his hands on another. Yes. 

3. Am I the kind that's not going to play second fiddle. Yes. 

4. Do I believe that a spouse can drive the other to cheat. Well of course. 

But I also know it would have been better to just get a divorce and get out. It was a bad choice and a weakness that got the better of me. I have made many bad choices and have many weaknesses. I'm not proud of myself, but you guys always want the details. How well did my limited details make you feel about me? 

Just for the record, I now have a wonderful, loving, caring wife that thinks I hung the moon and I've been on the wagon a number of years (and don't intend to fall off.)


----------



## mahike

As far as being C&S keep it up and good for you, I really mean that. You cannot blame shift A's she needs to either take the blame and fix it or get out.

She cannot straddle that fence and many WS want too, blame shift and or take the A deeper


----------



## Fvstringpicker

cpacan said:


> Wtf...? If anything like you describe, you talk with your husbond and change together!


According to her, she'd been talking for years. He simply refused to listen and/or didn't want to change. True, like my situation in a minor sense, she took the low road having an affair. You can see she's more than likely in love with the other man. I'll stand by my belief that he won't change and if they reconcile, it'll be business as usual in short order. ( except now he'll have her affair to deal with which will make him even more chilly)


----------



## PBear

I had two brief affairs at the end of my marriage of 17 years. My wife never found out about either of them, but among other things, they forced me to realize that our marriage was broken beyond repair, even prior to the affairs. So I initiated the separation, even though the affairs were over.

If you're going to commit to trying to rebuild your marriage, I'd advise you to commit 100%, and not hold back anything from your husband that he feels he needs to deal with your affair. I do suspect you're holding back not just because you don't want to hurt him, but because you don't want to continue to be reminded about what you've done. So you're as concerned about protecting yourself and your image as you are about protecting him. If you want him to heal, you can't do that.

I wish you and your husband good luck in rebuilding. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hookares

Empty, after your being in an 16 month affair, do you really think
your husband will ever be able to trust you?
Not only what you say, but where you have spent your time when not around him?
Stopping the affair merely because you got caught says more about what you think of your husband than anything else.
You will ALWAYS like knowing that he is a good provider, but the ache will still remain for whatever you were getting from your AP.
Let your husband move on.


----------



## cpacan

Fvstringpicker said:


> According to her, she'd been talking for years. He simply refused to listen and/or didn't want to change.


Speak up in clear terms, if it doesn't work, get out. Affair isn't justified.



Fvstringpicker said:


> You can see she's more than likely in love with the other man.


Yes, so she must sort out her feelings and decide whether she want's to love or be in-love, and if she can restore love with her husbond. If she chooses in-love with her lover, then leave. Affair isn't justified.



Fvstringpicker said:


> I'll stand by my belief that he won't change and if they reconcile, it'll be business as usual in short order. ( except now he'll have her affair to deal with which will make him even more chilly)


Agree. So she must commit to work on marriage with her husbond or decide to leave. Resuming affair isn't justified.

OP must soulsearch and decide if the marriage is worth the tremendous effort that she will have to put into it with her husbond, and not be with him out of pitty. Everybody want to feel loved including her husbond, that's not for WS only.


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## NextTimeAround

hookares said:


> Empty, after your being in an 16 month affair, do you really think
> your husband will ever be able to trust you?
> Not only what you say, but where you have spent your time when not around him?
> Stopping the affair merely because you got caught says more about what you think of your husband than anything else.
> You will ALWAYS like knowing that he is a good provider, but the ache will still remain for whatever you were getting from your AP.
> Let your husband move on.



I always try to imagine the logistics of an affair. How do you arrange time to see each other? What do you tell your spouse? Do you get the feeling after awhile that they know but don't want to deal with it?


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## MattMatt

> A part of me thinks that since he is all full of Testosterone that he wants to "use" me to satisfy his (new found) needs.


_Just like you were using your lover, then, hmmm?_

And you said you have not re-invented the history of your marriage? 

I suspect that you might have done this, but, you see, when people re-invent in this way, they do not realise they are doing it.

Tricky stuff, the fog of infidelity.


----------



## oregonmom

From the sounds of your posts, you aren't sure if you want to be with your AP or your H. You have to figure that out soon. It is not fair to your H to keep him hanging on if you are really in love with your AP.

Once you figure that out is when you move into the details. If you are going to leave your H, telling him details will just pour salt in the wounds. If you want to stay with your H, you need to answer whatever he asks. Believe me, he is imagining porn star sex multiple times a day, and the truth is (I'm assuming here) not as bad as that. Be respectful with your answers but tell him the truth. You completely betrayed him, and he deserves the answers to what he wants to know.


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## Acabado

Empty Inside, I'd never trust my feelings at this point. 16 mo affiar, the most fullfilling sex ever, being dumped by your AP (you can name it in other way if you can).. You are now in a huge withdrawal (a cople of weeks with NC is nothing) with can only subside with time of NC and refusing to relive a minute at minute the ''romance'' in your head. It all boils down to a internal decision nad commit it it. Get rid of every trigger, mementoes, cards, songs, etc. Once your brain chemistry readjust itself you'd think more clearly, with some perspective, without putting all those filters.


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## WorkOnIt

I'm too disgusted to even make a reply. 
People who try and justify make me sick.


----------



## Zanna

It seems you are trading your loving H (who is clearly not the perfect spouse but who among us is?) of many years with all your shared history and memories for good sex.

As for being in love with your AP, classic fog speak. Since when is love based on dishonesty? And what is so special about an affair born of ugliness and built on a foundation of lies and deceit. Wonderful people don't get involved with married people regardless of the tale of woe you spun for your AP. In the same way, emotionally mature people do not get involved with felons or drug addicts. Your morals should stay consistent regardless of circumstances. Emotionally mature people also know that before you start dating, you seek a divorce. There is no good or rational excuse for stabbing the father of your children in the back.

And cheaters often re-write the history of their marriages to justify the cheating or at the very least they magnify the problems and portray themselves as the victims. You stole your H's choices for 16 months. You let him live a lie. You are not the victim, he is. He is the ONLY victim in this situation. You acted poorly, selfishly and with gross entitlement. 

I suggest you start Googling affairs and see what the chances of your so-called relationship with the kind of man that would date a married woman has of becoming a real relationship. What you had with your AP was all sunshine and lollypops and was probably made more exciting by the stench of betrayal and getting away with something naughty.

Be honest with your H. Own your poor choices and remember the chances of you regretting giving up all the good things you share with your husband for those very fleeting "in love" feelings that only last 1-2 years are great.

_Love is not a feeling. Many, many people possessing a feeling of love and even acting in response to that feeling act in all manner of unloving and destructive ways. It is not only possible but necessary for a loving person to avoid acting on feelings of love. I may meet a woman who strongly attracts me, whom I feel like loving, but because it would be destructive to my marriage to have an affair, I will say vocally or in the silence of my heart, "I feel like loving you, but I am not going to". My feelings of love may be unbounded, but my capacity to be loving is limited. I therefore must choose the person on whom to focus my capacity to love, toward whom to direct my will to love.

True love is not a feeling by which we are overwhelmed. It is a committed, thoughtful decision. Genuine love implies commitment and the exercise of wisdom. When we are concerned for someone's spiritual growth, we know that a lack of commitment is likely to be harmful and that commitment to that person is probably necessary for us to manifest our concern effectively.

Genuine love is volitional rather than emotional. The person who truly loves does so because of a decision to love. This person has made a commitment to be loving whether or not the loving feeling is present. If it is, so much the better; but if it isn't, the commitment to love, the will to love, still stands and is still exercised.

The common tendency to confuse love with feelings of love allows people all manner of self-deception. It is clear that there may be a self-serving quality in this tendency to confuse love with the feeling of love; it is easy and not at all unpleasant to find evidence of love in one's feelings. It may be difficult and painful to search for evidence of love in one's actions. But because true love is an act of will that often transcends ephemeral feelings of love, it is correct to say, "Love is as love does"._


----------



## Hunger

Well said Zanna. Inspiring post. Thank you.


----------



## EI

Hey Guys,

I have been reading every single comment and will respond to a lot of what has been addressed later this evening when I have more time. I knew when I posted this thread that I would not be on the receiving end of your sympathy or approval. That is not what I came here looking for. I am genuinely trying to do my part of sorting out this painful situation. There is so much more to my story than I could share in just a few short posts. The one thing that I want to make clear is that I have been being honest with my husband.... about everything, including my feelings for the OM. I am not holding back facts or feelings, but I was concerned with just how graphic the details needed to be. I am not trying to make myself the victim. I was sharing my story and telling you all how I came to be in a situation that I never thought that I would be in. I was a faithful wife for 27 years. I did talk to my husband.... again and again. He wasn't listening. It is very easy to say that the finances aren't important, the kids aren't important, our handicapped son isn't important; that I should have just gotten a divorce. But, you know, the finances are important, the children are important and our special needs son is important. I know that the natural response to that is that I should have thought about that before I had an affair. I did and I do think about that. Again, there is more, but our situation made a divorce nearly impossible. Someone suggested that, perhaps, my spouse knew of my affair and was simply looking the other way. My therapist insisted that he must know. I said I didn't think so. I know, now, that he wasn't just looking the other way.... he wasn't looking at me at all. That has been a part of our problem for many years. Someone here said that I should have put all of the energy that I put into my affair into my marriage. I did.... for 27 years. I WAS watering my husband's garden, but by his own admission, he had built a water-proof dam and he wouldn't let me in. I don't think that it is realistic to believe that someone can be virtually "alone" in a marriage. This has never been just about sex. My husband was emotionally distant. When I tried to get closer physically (which should be a normal healthy part of marriage) he became even more distant. My parents are, now, deceased, the kids are grown (but a couple are still at home attending school) and I had no partner, no lover, no friend.... nothing. The loneliness was so consuming. He didn't talk to me, look at me, spend time with me. We had no common interests.... he went from being a bit of an introvert, with a sense of humor, to being completely withdrawn, distant, silent, cold and when pushed for more of a relationship he became passive-aggressive and began to try to make me feel ashamed for expressing my needs. Actually, he tried to make me feel ashamed for having needs. I have mentioned that he is a good provider and some of you have suggested that that is why I stay with him. Well, he is a good provider, but due to the size of our family, a large mortgage, medical bills, insurance, etc.... we are very, very tight financially.... more than I am comfortable admitting. I say this because I want it to be clear that I am not staying because I would lose financially if we divorced. Our family, as a whole, would suffer a greater financial hardship if we did, so that has left me conflicted. 

I am a very emotional person. I was so lonely and isolated that it is difficult to find the words to describe my pain. I craved being touched, held, looked at (not through.) One day in March last year, I begged my husband to make love to me, I was crying.... hoping that he would hold me and make me feel like a woman who was cherished, desired and loved. He said, "Why would I want to have sex with you.... look at you, you're crying," but there was always some excuse. I said, "forget it, I'll never ask again," then he dropped his clothes, sat on the side of the bed and said "C'mon." I no longer wanted him to touch me, but he insisted. I said "no," but still he insisted. I didn't want him to feel the same sting of rejection that I knew all too well. We had sex, it was not good, I have told him this. After that, I was finished. I told him that as well. I told him that when I could get a job, when our youngest graduated, when I could get our financial house in order that I was leaving. But, I said that, under the circumstances, it would take a couple of years. I told him that I would not pass up an opportunity for love if it came my way. NOTHING CHANGED.... he just became more distant. I decided to water my own garden and I did. 

In an interesting twist this morning, my husband Googled "How to deal with my wife's affair." He went to a link about "details." He ended up on THIS thread. He read it, knew it was us and I found him in tears. We talked..... we're still talking, we may even be reconnecting. I truly hope so. Yes, only I chose to have an affair, but he played a very large part in the breakdown of our marriage. For some reason, his dam has broken and every emotion that he ever suppressed in flooding in now. He said that he began to "feel" a few weeks before he discovered my affair. I think that is why he began "noticing" me and that things weren't as they should be. 

Thanks for all of your feedback.... whether it is what I want to hear or not. I really want to get through this and I want the best possible outcome for everyone. I want the hurting to stop and the healing to begin for all of us. <3


----------



## Zanna

Fog talk. Justifications. Affairs are wrong and are not a solution to M problems. Ever.

Here's the solution to marriage problems or feeling lonely in your M or whatever you say that YOUR issues were:

1. Fix the problem
2. Live with the problem
3. Divorce the problem

BUT DON'T justify your H's shortcomings and claim it was a reason for your affair. You had an affair because you handled a problem within your M poorly with little regard for anyone but yourself. If it was truly unworkable and you were that unhappy you should have filed for divorce. End of story.

You only made the problem worse now by adding on the extra layer of betrayal.

Your H owns his part in the M problems but he does NOT own your decision for the A. That's all on you.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

*He said, "Why would I want to have sex with you.... look at you, your crying," *

For 27 years you put up with this shabby treatment? As far as I concerned, he got what's coming to him.


----------



## WorkOnIt

Fvstringpicker said:


> *He said, "Why would I want to have sex with you.... look at you, your crying," *
> 
> For 27 years you put up with this shabby treatment? As far as I concerned, he got what's coming to him.


You're a typical DOUCHE sir.


----------



## Acabado

Beyond what may happen with your marriage at the end you need to commit to end officially the affair for good, for ever, give up the idea of a possible happy ending and totally abandon all this romantizing the uglyness.

Send OM a finnal NC letter, aproved by your husband, there are templates out there. Then relinquish the affair tools and be transparent with the comunication devices and acountable for your whereabouts.


----------



## slater

To me the truth is somewhere in the middle. I am a BS so I will never condone your choice but it is clear that you fell into a trap so many others do. You probably didn't want to. But you are here now. You clearly f'ed up- bad. You need to understand that you made a bad choice- there were better options to deal with your situation. You also need to realize that the love you have for your AP is a mirage, a fantasy. 

If you love your husband at all you MUST do the following ASAP;
- End all contact with AP
- Send a NC letter
- Agree to and attend MC
- Answer every question
- Come to terms with your choices and take responsibility for all consequences
- Have and show total remorse
- Realize your feelings for AP were a fantasy

If you can't or won't do these then you must pursue D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Zanna said:


> It seems you are trading your loving H (who is clearly not the perfect spouse but who among us is?) of many years with all your shared history and memories for good sex.
> 
> As for being in love with your AP, classic fog speak. Since when is love based on dishonesty? And what is so special about an affair born of ugliness and built on a foundation of lies and deceit. Wonderful people don't get involved with married people regardless of the tale of woe you spun for your AP. In the same way, emotionally mature people do not get involved with felons or drug addicts. Your morals should stay consistent regardless of circumstances. Emotionally mature people also know that before you start dating, you seek a divorce. There is no good or rational excuse for stabbing the father of your children in the back.
> 
> And cheaters often re-write the history of their marriages to justify the cheating or at the very least they magnify the problems and portray themselves as the victims. You stole your H's choices for 16 months. You let him live a lie. You are not the victim, he is. He is the ONLY victim in this situation. You acted poorly, selfishly and with gross entitlement.
> 
> I suggest you start Googling affairs and see what the chances of your so-called relationship with the kind of man that would date a married woman has of becoming a real relationship. What you had with your AP was all sunshine and lollypops and was probably made more exciting by the stench of betrayal and getting away with something naughty.
> 
> Be honest with your H. Own your poor choices and remember the chances of you regretting giving up all the good things you share with your husband for those very fleeting "in love" feelings that only last 1-2 years are great.
> 
> _Love is not a feeling. Many, many people possessing a feeling of love and even acting in response to that feeling act in all manner of unloving and destructive ways. It is not only possible but necessary for a loving person to avoid acting on feelings of love. I may meet a woman who strongly attracts me, whom I feel like loving, but because it would be destructive to my marriage to have an affair, I will say vocally or in the silence of my heart, "I feel like loving you, but I am not going to". My feelings of love may be unbounded, but my capacity to be loving is limited. I therefore must choose the person on whom to focus my capacity to love, toward whom to direct my will to love.
> 
> True love is not a feeling by which we are overwhelmed. It is a committed, thoughtful decision. Genuine love implies commitment and the exercise of wisdom. When we are concerned for someone's spiritual growth, we know that a lack of commitment is likely to be harmful and that commitment to that person is probably necessary for us to manifest our concern effectively.
> 
> Genuine love is volitional rather than emotional. The person who truly loves does so because of a decision to love. This person has made a commitment to be loving whether or not the loving feeling is present. If it is, so much the better; but if it isn't, the commitment to love, the will to love, still stands and is still exercised.
> 
> The common tendency to confuse love with feelings of love allows people all manner of self-deception. It is clear that there may be a self-serving quality in this tendency to confuse love with the feeling of love; it is easy and not at all unpleasant to find evidence of love in one's feelings. It may be difficult and painful to search for evidence of love in one's actions. But because true love is an act of will that often transcends ephemeral feelings of love, it is correct to say, "Love is as love does"._


:iagree:


----------



## MattMatt

Any idea what will happen to the children if you leave your husband for your AP?

Who will get them?


----------



## cabin fever

Fvstringpicker said:


> *He said, "Why would I want to have sex with you.... look at you, your crying," *
> 
> For 27 years you put up with this shabby treatment? As far as I concerned, he got what's coming to him.


That is the most phucked up thing I have read on here!


I don't give a rats azz what he did, he didn't rip her heart out, and chit on it for 16 friggin months. 


A ONS I could see, but she cheated for 16 months! Divorce the guy, and let him move on. Holy chit I feel for your husband. Cheating becuase you think your marriage is bad, is the cowards way out! There is NEVER a good time to get divorced, but its ALWAYS the better thing to do!

To answer your OP's question. 
I say tell him anything, and everything he asks. No matter what it is. If he asks you to compare **** sizes, get a tape measure out, and get to measuring. 

Being cheated on is BY FAR the worst emotional, and physical pain I have ever experienced. What ever you think your husband is going through............MULTIPLY it by 100!


----------



## warlock07

Wow...With her perfect explanations and rationalizations, no wonder she convinced herself to cheat.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

WorkOnIt said:


> You're a typical DOUCHE sir.


Why don't you explain what you mean? Some of you guys believe one spouse, with impunity, is suppose to be able to treat the other like crap, making them feel inadequate, undesirable, ignored, and taken for granted. Sorry, I don't follow that philosophy. As far as I'm concerned, that's betrayal in and of itself. Is treating your wife like doesn't exist, making her feel unwanted and unloved, year end and year out, really better than her laying down with someone to prove to herself that she's not undesirable? Is that treatment loving and honoring your spouse. If her story is on the up and up, this cat broke his vows to her long before she broke hers to him. I said before, having an affair is not the best way to deal with it. But face it, that's the choice many will make. Like electricity, people normally take the path of least resistance. I'll say it again. A persons who knowingly treats their spouse like crap deserves what they get. Call me a douche, but call me a fair one.


----------



## MattMatt

This is starting to remind me of a punchline of an old joke:

..."So you see, officer, none of this is my fault..."


----------



## MattMatt

Fvstringpicker said:


> Why don't you explain what you mean? Some of you guys believe one spouse, with impunity, is suppose to be able to treat the other like crap, making them feel inadequate, undesirable, ignored, and taken for granted. Sorry, I don't follow that philosophy. As far as I'm concerned, that's betrayal in and of itself. Is treating your wife like doesn't exist, making her feel unwanted and unloved, year end and year out, really better than her laying down with someone to prove to herself that she's not undesirable? Is that treatment loving and honoring your spouse. If her story is on the up and up, this cat broke his vows to her long before she broke hers to him. I said before, having an affair is not the best way to deal with it. But face it, that's the choice many will make. Like electricity, people normally take the path of least resistance. I'll say it again. A persons who knowingly treats their spouse like crap deserves what they get. Call me a douche, but call me a fair one.


God save them from the Fog!


----------



## TBT

The OP's husband is working on changing himself after he found out his marriage might be toast and imo she could have provoked the same change long ago if she had of forcefully put divorce on the table,but she never did.


----------



## MattMatt

TBT said:


> The OP's husband is working on changing himself after he found out his marriage might be toast and imo she could have provoked the same change long ago if she had of forcefully put divorce on the table,but she never did.


Unless, of course, it all suited her purpose at that time?

Good provider, kids, including a sick one to look after.

But now? Perhaps hubby was looking sort of redundant? No longer required?

So... why rock the boat? Oh, look! Land! Let's leap out of the boat and make for the shore. Perhaps the shore turned out to be a mirage? So it's back aboard the Good Ship Marriage! Well, leastways until the next landfall...


----------



## Shaggy

I hear lots of justifications from the OP, but no remorse. She has even said she leave her husband if Iit didn't cost her too much money, or make her look bad for leaving him financially ruined for the rest of his life. She's even keeping the AP on standby so she can jump ship as soon as she gets happy with the idea. Oh, and then there is the therapist who knew about the cheating and supported it by suggesting the husband knew and approved.

So everyone wins here except the husband who is left alone, financially ruined, and emotionally destroyed. Well maybe if the OP works it right she can convince the children just how awful he is and they'll dump him too.

The OP is so deep in the fog of affair and self justification it's sickening. She doesn't want to go into details because she doesnt want to betray her honorable OM. He must be really honorable to cheat with a married woman, yep, what a great nice guy he must be. A real catch he is.

This is so horrible for the husband.

All this so the OP could get laid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TBT

MattMatt said:


> So it's back aboard the Good Ship Marriage! Well, leastways until the next landfall...


LOL.No,I think this is more about clearing her conscience as she reflects back on 28 years of marriage.I'm sure she has a moral compass she's trying to reconcile,but that unfortunately is to the continued detriment to her husband.She doesn't love him any more,so quit hurting him with hope.


----------



## MattMatt

Shaggy said:


> I hear lots of justifications from the OP, but no remorse. She has even said she leave her husband if Iit didn't cost her too much money, or make her look bad for leaving him financially ruined for the rest of his life. She's even keeping the AP on standby so she can jump ship as soon as she gets happy with the idea. Oh, and then there is the therapist who knew about the cheating and supported it by suggesting the husband knew and approved.
> 
> So everyone wins here except the husband who is left alone, financially ruined, and emotionally destroyed. Well maybe if the OP works it right she can convince the children just how awful he is and they'll dump him too.
> 
> The OP is so deep in the fog of affair and self justification it's sickening. She doesn't want to go into details because she doesnt want to betray her honorable OM. He must be really honorable to cheat with a married woman, yep, what a great nice guy he must be. A real catch he is.
> 
> This is so horrible for the husband.
> 
> All this so the OP could get laid.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The post seemed somewhat passive-aggressive, too. "I cheated. But my husband, HE made me do it!"

And you are right, the lack of remorse was worrying. Also, it's fine for her to use the AP for sex but it is wrong, she implies, for her husband to want to use her for sex.

Yeah, right, sure...


----------



## MattMatt

TBT said:


> LOL.No,I think this is more about clearing her conscience as she reflects back on 28 years of marriage.I'm sure she has a moral compass she's trying to reconcile,but that unfortunately is to the continued detriment to her husband.She doesn't love him any more,so quit hurting him with hope.


Well, TBT, I thought so, too. But from re-reading what she wrote, I wonder if she is so deep in the fog that she has -unconsciously- re-invented and re-written the history of their marriage, in part or in full?


----------



## TBT

Sorry,I just don't see anyone being in the fog for 16 months.


----------



## MattMatt

TBT said:


> Sorry,I just don't see anyone being in the fog for 16 months.


Other people have had WS who have been in the fog 3 years or even longer.

Remember, the fog makes them feel _gooood_. So, a week? A month? A year? Longer? If they can get away with it, why not?


----------



## TBT

MattMatt said:


> Other people have had WS who have been in the fog 3 years or even longer.
> 
> Remember, the fog makes them feel _gooood_. So, a week? A month? A year? Longer? If they can get away with it, why not?


Maybe it's just me and the in your face harsh realities I've faced over the course of my life.While I can accept the fog to a degree early in fidelity,imo the longer the affair goes on,the more the fog becomes a catchall that allows the betrayer to minimize their responsibility.I mean even with the greatest love of my life I never walked around in dreamland for 16 months.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

Shaggy said:


> She has even said she leave her husband if Iit didn't cost her too much money, or make her look bad for leaving him financially ruined for the rest of his life.


You've got to consider that if she divorced, she'd end up stuck with all the kids while he got by with a few hundred a month in child support. One of my students recently got a divorce. Her old man move across the U.S. and hasnt paid dime one in child support. Like anything else, you have to look out for your own azz. That's what she was doing. She already said he was a cheapskate. 



MattMatt said:


> Remember, the fog makes them feel _gooood_. So, a week? A month? A year? Longer? If they can get away with it, why not?


Reckon her old man was in a fog for 27 years when he was thinking, "I'll treat her like crap and keep her near the bottom of the totem pole. She ain't gonna do nothing about it."


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## MattMatt

IF he treated her like crap for 27 years.

Blameshifting, re-writing of history. It happens.


----------



## Acabado

There are waywards who fully rewrite and demonize their betrayed ones to justify themselves to a point reality become unrecognizable. I can't see eny betrayed here which doesn't take their story with a grain of salt.
There are also waywards who have endured horrible marriages. It's not that excuse a sh!it, but explains why they doesn't love their BSs or show little to no empathy for them, which is perfectly understandable, let's face it.


----------



## MattMatt

TBT said:


> Maybe it's just me and the in your face harsh realities I've faced over the course of my life.While I can accept the fog to a degree early in fidelity,imo the longer the affair goes on,the more the fog becomes a catchall that allows the betrayer to minimize their responsibility.I mean even with the greatest love of my life I never walked around in dreamland for 16 months.


Her husband had a hormone problem so he could not have much, if any, sex. 

AP and CS were, to use an old English rural expression, "_*at it like a rat up a pump*_" so yes, the fog could last that long, or even longer.


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## TBT

Ah well Matt,I guess we can agree to disagree about the duration.Besides I thought only The Shadow had the "power to cloud men's minds" Jk


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## Fvstringpicker

MattMatt said:


> Her husband had a hormone problem so he could not have much, if any, sex


She said "So, with no improvement in the state of our marriage, after 28 years, he wants to act like a sex-crazed teenager."

So much for the hormone problem. Also, why do you assume she's in a fog, re-writing history. Just because she had an affair doesn't mean what she is telling us in not the truth.


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## Phenix70

So because you won't divorce due to $$ & your almost grown kids, you're prepared to continue to stay married to a man who has shown you no love for almost 30 years & whom you profess no love for?
You do not love him, there is no reason to stay married to him except that you know no other way to live. 
To me, this is why this sounds 100% like you have a Martyr Complex. 
This life you have been leading is the one you feel most comfortable in, no matter how crappy a marriage you've had.
The fear of shedding your role of martyr is what is holding you back from divorcing, not your kids, not your finances.
There are people who have left their marriages with only the clothes on their backs in order to get away, so your excuses for no divorce are just that, excuses.


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## it is what it is

I am throwing myself out to the wolves with Empty Inside so she does not feel so alone. Her story is almost my story, I feel for her. sh*t happens folks, that’s life whether you want to admit it or not, and I can guarantee a lot more people have been in her shoes but will not admit on here. I was in an affair for almost 2 years with a married man before my husband caught me, we did counseling (individual and as a couple after the fact), we were married for 17 years before I started the affair and put up with rejection for years, I married him because he was a “good guy” - great provider, good husband, and awesome father. But he never met my sexual desires/needs the entire marriage, even the counselor pointed that out, our libidos were off since the beginning, he was LD, I was HD, he is an introvert, I am an extrovert, I enjoy lots of fun play, I even attempted to give him a BJ in the car before going in to have dinner one night at a restaurant since we had a sitter and without kids, but he declined. WTF? Seriously? I tolerated it for years, tried talking about it, etc. He did not like me being an initiator or being aggressive, so I would shower before bed as a “hint”, but lay there after he came to bed(with no shower after working all day) waiting for him to make a move, after 30 minutes of nothing, I would get up and leave the room pissed off. I am a woman and crave an emotional and physical connection, body warmth, passionate sex and to feel/be desired. And, I found it elsewhere and have no regrets. Life is too short for that crap, I felt something I thought I would never get to experience in life, to love someone like I have never loved before. Sure, we had the “fog” for a while but it faded some over the 2 years while still seeing each other, but we were still experiencing the most awesome lovemaking either of us had ever experienced towards the end of our relationship after getting caught. I have not seen my AP in a year and half and my heart still misses him and hurts so bad for him, I think of him every day. I miss him terribly and have cried more than I have ever cried over someone and never thought at the age of 42 that I would go through that type of emotion over someone.

A year and half later, I am still living with my husband in the same house for the kids. We are separated, but living together, sleep in different rooms, but get along as room mates wonderfully. I still cook and we have dinner every night as a family at the kitchen table, I still clean the house and pay the bills and also work 30 hours per week, we never fight, never have, part of lack of communication problem, neither of us likes conflict. No sex with husband for almost 3 years. Pretty sure he does not have anyone else, but wish he would find someone. I have no desire for him after having what I had, even if I can’t have it again with my AP. Husband and I have not talked about our relationship issues in a year and a half, he never asked for details, but expressed he wanted to work it out, that he forgave me, and when he married me it was for life. Well, no sh*t Sherlock, not many of us marry thinking it is going to be temporary, but I can’t go through life with no physical/intimate/emotional connection. Sorry. I will admit that I changed, we grew apart and I need more than what he can give me, and that I am a chicken sh*t for flat out not admitting that to him because I was afraid of hurting his feelings, but instead hurt him in a way I never intended. Yes, I am the selfish evil bi*tch. I think he could live the rest of his life without sex and us living the way we do, which is how it was before my affair, except now I sleep in another room instead of 2 feet from him in the bed resenting him all night. I have no idea what we are going to do at this point. Effed up.

Sorry for the hijack, best of luck to you Empty Inside, I know what you are going through and it sucks.


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## Fvstringpicker

IIWII, it goes down like you describe a lot. There may be better ways of handling it, but how many always handle things the better way. Sometimes people try to get a little relief from what may be an intolerable situation without grossly altering their lives and the lives of those around them. Its human nature.


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## happyman64

It,

I am very sad for you after reading your post.

I am sad because you took the easy way out by having an affair and other than great sex you ended up with nothing gained in your life.

I am sad that you threw away your marriage and family for nothing.

I am sad that you are stuck in a marriage without love or intimacy.

I am sad that you did not have the courage to Divorce your husband before you had an affair.

I am sad that you still do not have the courage to Divorce your husband.

And lastly, I am sad that you do not see a solution in your future that will bring you personal happiness.

What good is having dinner as a family if you are living in separate rooms. What kind of marriage are you and your husband showing your children.

Again, you are brave posting and throwing yourself out to the wolves. But all of us BS's do seek happiness not just for us but our spouses as well.

It does not sound like your Affair brought you any happiness, maybe physical and emotional pleasure. If it did bring you happiness you would not be separated, living with your husband in limbo.

Sadly,

Hm64


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## Numb in Ohio

I think you only need to worry about how much detail to tell him if you are willing to give up your AP and stay married to you H. 

The way you are sounding, you are wanting to be with the OM anyway, so why don't you just get divorced and take your chances..... unless now you're worried the OM won't want you either, and you would accept staying unhappily with your H rather than being alone with no one? Sad thinking!!


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## Shaggy

The women cheaters here offer each other a shoulder to cry on and justification for cheating is such garbage, a man is expected to stay faithful to his wife even after she gets I'd and the sex totally ends. If he doesn't stay true and with the kids he is called a louse, a looser, a deadbeat etc.

The women on here with their poor stories about how many years they were faithful, but just simply has no choice but to cheat. Total and complete spew. 

If your married life was so bad then divorce. Instead you took the cowards way and cheated. It cost YOU nothing and you got the sex you so badly wanted. All it cost your husband is a whole in his soul and constant torment of mind movies of you cheating with you AP.

These cowardly and dispicable choices paid for with the torment of your husband, buts it's OK because you got the sex you so craved.

You know I'm against revenge affairs, but in these cases I could make an exception. This guy sacrificed his youth and worked hard, and your payback is this. What a lovely gift.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## betamale

Empty Inside says that her affair "ended" when she got caught 2 weeks ago. But her affair has not ended and it wont. She cheated for more than a year but didn't divorce her husband because he's a good provider. 

She doesn't regret anything, so she'll go back to cheating but wont divorce her husband unless he files first.


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## moxy

You need to figure out whether you want your cheating boyfriend or your husband. Think about it for a long time without factoring "love" into the equation. What do you want in A Partner. Who gives you that? What do you want to give to A Partner. Who can you give that to? Once you decide whether you want one or the other (and I suggest doing it soon before your husband realizes what a colossal mistake it is to stay with his cheating wife who doesn't care about him at all and just wants to justify her behavior and minimize the damage to keep her options open -- in case you didn't know, that's what's coming through in your post), commit and break it off entirely with the one you don't want. 27 years of faithfulness still doesn't justify cheating; if you were unhappy, you should have divorced first and hooked up second.

In my opinion, you should divorce your husband and go run off to your affair partner. Your husband deserves someone better than you, someone who can love him and who won't cheat on him or stay with him only because he brings home the bacon. You, on the other hand, don't seem to give a darn about what you've put him through and are only concerned with how much you can preserve of your own pleasure.

Edit: OK. I was being harsh and hadn't read the rest of the thread; still feel that way, but here's another angle. -- It doesn't sound like you want to be with your husband and it sounds like maybe you guys can't even meet each others' needs, so maybe you should just consider divorcing him. There's a simple phrase for that -- irreconcilable differences. If you both want different things, you're mismatched. Maybe your affair is what gave you the courage to seek an exit from your marriage, so take it. But, go get some therapy because you've made some deliberately deceitful and disgusting choices and you need some help to become a person who isn't going to be a repeat offender; then maybe you'll find the love you're looking for with someone else.


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## Jibril

Empty Inside said:


> *Before anyone condemns me for doing what I did, please remember that I was faithful for nearly 27 years and I begged him to help me save our marriage*.


You don't want anyone to judge and condemn you, while at the same time admitting that you had an affair and you may very well continue your relationship with your affair partner if your marriage goes south?

Yeah... _no_.

Affairs are cowardly and selfish acts. Period. If you were really hurting as badly as you say, you should have gotten a divorce. No ifs, ands or buts. You should have broken it off. 

You're playing the pity card here. Oh, woe is me. My marriage was on the rocks, and I did the only thing that made sense - betraying my spouse and marital vows and have an affair with another man. Instead of, y'know, breaking the marriage off properly.

My advice is this - stop stringing your husband along. Just *stop it*. You admit you don't feel any love for him. You've been unsatisfied for a long time. Fine. We get it. You've only beaten us over the head with this fact the _entire topic_. If you have no desire to reconcile, break it off. If you have no feelings for your huband, stop being a _coward_ and divorce him. What's wrong? You can betray your marital vows and destroy your marriage in secret, but you don't have the stones to do it legitimately?


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## Will_Kane

The emotional and financial needs of your special needs son are yours and your husband's to share. Now and always.

You have good sex and an emotional connection with the other man. But he doesn't have to get up every day and do the hard work your husband has to in meeting the needs of raising a large family, including the emotional and financial needs of a special needs son. Other man is divorced, has minimal responsibilities for anyone but himself, is able to devote almost all attention to you. You the same for him, you can escape to him and leave behind your troubles while you do.

It's not a level playing field between other man and your husband.

I can see why you would want to keep the affair going and not get divorced.

Do you think your relationship with the other man would be the way you believe it is if the other man had to face the emotional and financial pain that you and your husband had to face together?


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## iheartlife

Will_Kane, you need to start getting paid for your insightful posts. Your aim is true.


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## morituri

You, as well as it_is_what_is, are so sure of yourselves that a divorce is not forth coming. I wonder how the two of you will feel if you're both proven wrong.


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## Shaggy

Maybe before you run off into the sunset with your glorious AP, you can get your husband a much younger, much prettier, much better wife to take your place. 

The thing is - I bet you won't like to see him cheating on you with her. Not one bit. And that makes you both a cheater and a hypocrite.


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## Fvstringpicker

Since I'm playing the devils advocate, a quick question for ya'll.

Suppose Empty and IIAII, instead of resorting to an affair to alleviate their problem , would have divorced their husbands, busted up the family, left most of the responsibility for kids, dumped the mortgage and all other expenses in their now ex husbands lap (to the point of his financial ruin ) while they paid minimal child support, moved into a swank apartment, and started dating. Would that be a better solution and a lesser transgression?


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## morituri

Fvstringpicker said:


> Since I'm playing the devils advocate, a quick question for ya'll.
> 
> Suppose Empty and IIAII, instead of resorting to an affair to alleviate their problem , would have divorced their husbands, busted up the family, left most of the responsibility for kids, dumped the mortgage and all other expenses in their now ex husbands lap (to the point of his financial ruin ) while they paid minimal child support, moved into a swank apartment, and started dating. Would that be a better solution and a lesser transgression?


Yes.

All that can still happen but now with the extra emotional/psychological damage added to not just the husbands but to their children who will know why their parents divorced. Marital betrayal not irreconcilable differences.


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## Will_Kane

Fv, if you're asking, could they have made other bad choices that arguably were worse, like deserting their families and their responsibilities, the answer is "yes", they could have made choices that arguably were worse.

I've even read stories in the news about wives who had their husbands murdered instead of divorcing them. I probably would choose my wife having an affair over her having me murdered - but it doesn't mean having an affair was not a bad choice.

There are many bad choices. That fact that they chose one bad way of handling it and not another does not change the fact that they made a bad choice.


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## TBT

I don't see seeking divorce when you feel you're faced with insurmountable obstacles in your marriage as any type of transgression,and who's to say financial and child obligations can't be met as divorced couples do it all the time.


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## Fvstringpicker

Will_Kane said:


> There are many bad choices. That fact that they chose one bad way of handling it and not another does not change the fact that they made a bad choice.


Among the options, I'm just wondering where affairs fall. We know murder is a worse choice. Is divorce always a better choice than an affair? Perhaps. Perhaps not. If the husband didn't care if the wife found a lover, and it happens, divorce may be a worse solution. All husbands are not devastated by such action. The situation I proposed, where the wife leaves the children and improves their lifestyle is usually done by the man.


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## MattMatt

Fvstringpicker said:


> She said "So, with no improvement in the state of our marriage, after 28 years, he wants to act like a sex-crazed teenager."
> 
> So much for the hormone problem. Also, why do you assume she's in a fog, re-writing history. Just because she had an affair doesn't mean what she is telling us in not the truth.


But she said the hormone problem had been fixed by medical intervention...


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## morituri

Fvstringpicker,

Why didn't these two HD wives, EI and IIWII, have the courage to ask their husbands to allow them to have a lover on the side before they chose to cheat on them? Only the most dense of husbands would not see such a request as an extremely serious marital issue needing to be addressed promptly.


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## MattMatt

It Is What It is... your husband refused to have sex in a *public* car park?

NO? Really? Now why on EARTH would someone decline to have sex in a *public* car park? Where they might be seen by people they know, people they didn't know, restaurant staff, security staff, the police, children? 

Nope. You can't think of a reason? Oh. OK. Then I guess everything_ is_ your husband's fault, then? :scratchhead:


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## MattMatt

And THIS is how a UK-based cheaters dating site promotes itself to women who want affairs!

*"Maybe you are a bored housewife looking for a bit on the side"*

That's it, ladies! Does that describe your situation? "a bored housewife looking for a bit on the side?"

Well, what hubby doesn't know can't hurt him, right? Right? No? Surely not?

It also promotes itself as being free for women to join.


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## Zanna

it is what it is said:


> I am throwing myself out to the wolves with Empty Inside so she does not feel so alone. Her story is almost my story, I feel for her. sh*t happens folks, that’s life whether you want to admit it or not, and I can guarantee a lot more people have been in her shoes but will not admit on here. I was in an affair for almost 2 years with a married man before my husband caught me, we did counseling (individual and as a couple after the fact), we were married for 17 years before I started the affair and put up with rejection for years, I married him because he was a “good guy” - great provider, good husband, and awesome father. But he never met my sexual desires/needs the entire marriage, even the counselor pointed that out, our libidos were off since the beginning, he was LD, I was HD, he is an introvert, I am an extrovert, I enjoy lots of fun play, I even attempted to give him a BJ in the car before going in to have dinner one night at a restaurant since we had a sitter and without kids, but he declined. WTF? Seriously? I tolerated it for years, tried talking about it, etc. He did not like me being an initiator or being aggressive, so I would shower before bed as a “hint”, but lay there after he came to bed(with no shower after working all day) waiting for him to make a move, after 30 minutes of nothing, I would get up and leave the room pissed off. I am a woman and crave an emotional and physical connection, body warmth, passionate sex and to feel/be desired. And, I found it elsewhere and have no regrets. Life is too short for that crap, I felt something I thought I would never get to experience in life, to love someone like I have never loved before. Sure, we had the “fog” for a while but it faded some over the 2 years while still seeing each other, but we were still experiencing the most awesome lovemaking either of us had ever experienced towards the end of our relationship after getting caught. I have not seen my AP in a year and half and my heart still misses him and hurts so bad for him, I think of him every day. I miss him terribly and have cried more than I have ever cried over someone and never thought at the age of 42 that I would go through that type of emotion over someone.
> 
> A year and half later, I am still living with my husband in the same house for the kids. We are separated, but living together, sleep in different rooms, but get along as room mates wonderfully. I still cook and we have dinner every night as a family at the kitchen table, I still clean the house and pay the bills and also work 30 hours per week, we never fight, never have, part of lack of communication problem, neither of us likes conflict. No sex with husband for almost 3 years. Pretty sure he does not have anyone else, but wish he would find someone. I have no desire for him after having what I had, even if I can’t have it again with my AP. Husband and I have not talked about our relationship issues in a year and a half, he never asked for details, but expressed he wanted to work it out, that he forgave me, and when he married me it was for life. Well, no sh*t Sherlock, not many of us marry thinking it is going to be temporary, but I can’t go through life with no physical/intimate/emotional connection. Sorry. I will admit that I changed, we grew apart and I need more than what he can give me, and that I am a chicken sh*t for flat out not admitting that to him because I was afraid of hurting his feelings, but instead hurt him in a way I never intended. Yes, I am the selfish evil bi*tch. I think he could live the rest of his life without sex and us living the way we do, which is how it was before my affair, except now I sleep in another room instead of 2 feet from him in the bed resenting him all night. I have no idea what we are going to do at this point. Effed up.
> 
> Sorry for the hijack, best of luck to you Empty Inside, I know what you are going through and it sucks.


Are you serious?

I was in an unhappy marriage too. My H did not respect me or my opinions. He decided it was the 50's and he should make all the financial decisions because he had the MBA. He was rude and disrespectful. Angry all the time and drank too much.

Despite being in my late 30's, I still got hit on by men in their 20's who told me I was sexy. I recall once I even had a very attractive, very toned 29 year old man tell me that he loved older women and that I could call him anytime. For any reason. 

I guess since I was so unhappy, I should have taken these men up on their offers.

But I didn't because even though I didn't care much for my H at the time, he is still the father of my children. And I actually pictured my children's faces and what it would mean to lose their respect if I was ever to get caught. Also, because no matter what he did, I have to have a relationship with the father of my children for the rest of their lives and that was not worth damaging over a sleazy affair.

Well, my H had an affair, instead of dealing with my unhappiness or listening to me when I tried to tell him I was unhappy.

Does that mean I should have a revenge affair now? Because clearly I was so very wronged so I must be justified in chucking my morals and my integrity because I'm so UNHAPPY and angry.


----------



## cpacan

morituri said:


> Fvstringpicker,
> 
> Why didn't these two HD wives, EI and IIWII, have the courage to ask their husbands to allow them to have a lover on the side before they chose to cheat on them? Only the most dense of husbands would not see such a request as an extremely serious marital issue needing to be addressed promptly.


Yes, yes, YES...! Thank you Mori, for repeating this and pointing out the difference in the abuse from both sides.

The claimed "emotional abuse" from the husbonds was out in the open do be dealt with, and the WS had their choice to do something about it. While the WS kept their abuse as a secret to their spouses, so that they didn't get to choose whether they wished to live like this or not. BIG difference.

So OP and It... deal with your situations, you didn't care enough to give your husbonds this option. Get out and get a life for your selves and your families.

Oh, and to elaborate on the opening post again; tell your husbond every detail unless he explicitly refuses to hear about it. Again, don't deny him his right to make an informed decission.


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## Zanna

Even my H doesn't use the fact that I rejected him sexually for years, to excuse his affair. Oh sure, he did at first but he started to realize what a horrible mistake he had made and how he UNFAIRLY blamed me for all the problems in the M, instead of looking at how he contributed to his own rejection by the way he treated me.

I like how a friend of a friend that's a divorce lawyer used to put it -- Cinderella rarely marries the Big Bad Wolf. And Prince Charming rarely marries the Wicked Witch of the West.

Meaning both YOU and your husband contributed to the marriage problems pre-A, despite your victim mentality, and even if you were Cinderella married to the Big Bad Wolf, was anyone forcing you to stay married to him? Um....no.


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## morituri

Fvstringpicker,

It appears that these two women have chosen to complicate their lives and are unwilling to do the needed sacrifices to lead successful, separate lives as divorced women. They have grown too comfortable with their lifestyles, financed in large part by their husbands, and they don't want to find themselves working their tails off just like their husbands have been doing all these years.*

Both EI and IIWII have stressed that they don't want to divorce because of the financially devastating impact it would have on their families but what would happen if their husbands died? What then?


*Pew Research Center, entitled "The Rise of Wives," found that men are still the primary breadwinner in 78% of the couples.


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## NextTimeAround

Fvstringpicker said:


> Why don't you explain what you mean? Some of you guys believe one spouse, with impunity, is suppose to be able to treat the other like crap, making them feel inadequate, undesirable, ignored, and taken for granted. Sorry, I don't follow that philosophy. As far as I'm concerned, that's betrayal in and of itself. *Is treating your wife like doesn't exist, making her feel unwanted and unloved, year end and year out, really better than her laying down with someone to prove to herself that she's not undesirable?* Is that treatment loving and honoring your spouse. If her story is on the up and up, this cat broke his vows to her long before she broke hers to him. I said before, having an affair is not the best way to deal with it. But face it, that's the choice many will make. Like electricity, people normally take the path of least resistance. I'll say it again. A persons who knowingly treats their spouse like crap deserves what they get. Call me a douche, but call me a fair one.


At least, if she had told her husband upfront that she was going to have sex with another man and spend valuable time with him....away from the family, the husband could have made an informed decision whether to stay or go.

Having an affair takes away the ability to make important decisions under full knowledge.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Fvstringpicker said:


> Since I'm playing the devils advocate, a quick question for ya'll.
> 
> Suppose Empty and IIAII, instead of resorting to an affair to alleviate their problem , would have divorced their husbands, busted up the family, left most of the responsibility for kids, dumped the mortgage and all other expenses in their now ex husbands lap (to the point of his financial ruin )* while they paid minimal child support, moved into a swank apartment, and started dating. *Would that be a better solution and a lesser transgression?


those two women must have assumed that that likelihood was very low......or else they would have gotten the divorce.


----------



## snap

Fvstringpicker said:


> IIWII, it goes down like you describe a lot. There may be better ways of handling it, but how many always handle things the better way. Sometimes people try to get a little relief from what may be an intolerable situation without grossly altering their lives and the lives of those around them. Its human nature.


I have a better theory. Some people are weak pieces of sh*t, and some others aren't.


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## Fvstringpicker

So the consensus is that divorce is always preferable to having an affair?


----------



## cpacan

Fvstringpicker said:


> So the consensus is that divorce is always preferable to having an affair?


No. Talk things out. Clear communication. Be honest. These are preferable to both divorce and having an affair.

Why do you have such a hard time accepting that there are alternatives to being selfish and disrespectfull to your spouse?


----------



## morituri

In my book divorce IS preferable than an affair.

These two women put so much emphasis on the allegedly bad behavior of their husbands but at the very least it can be said that their husbands did not hide their allegedly appalling behavior towards them like they did when they chose to take on an OM and have a long term affair. They were presented with two honorable options, stay or leave but instead they chose a third and cowardly action, infidelity. Not only that, they still want to enjoy the best of both worlds at their husband's and families expense.

Tens of thousands of men and women per day divorce their spouses for reasons that have nothing to do with infidelity. For the vast majority it is not an easy decision and they face hard financial hardships in the beginning of their new lives as divorced people. Yet unlike these two women, they realize that staying in a bad marriage is much worse no matter how financially comfortable it would be for them and their children.


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## Rmommy22

Divorce is not the first solution...but it is a solution to actually having an A. If you can not create some communication and stand up about what you think is wrong in the marriage how is an affair supposed to help that?
Being a selfish inconsiderate jerk who tears apart a family because they want to get their rocks off is not a viable solution. It is a pathetic excuse. If you 'have to have' the attention from someone else to amke yourself feel better there are more issues within yourself that need to be addressed than just marital problems. Those should be handeled and brought to light before you choose to have an A. If you can not get to that point, then yes divorce is a MUCH better option than cheating.


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## snap

Having an affair is like pissing into other person's coffee. Whatever issues you have, it doesn't solve them.

Affair is not an alternative to divorce or anything else, because it does not address the actual problem. It's the king of passive aggressive behaviors encountered in families.


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## Shaggy

NextTimeAround said:


> At least, if she had told her husband upfront that she was going to have sex with another man and spend valuable time with him....away from the family, the husband could have made an informed decision whether to stay or go.
> 
> Having an affair takes away the ability to make important decisions under full knowledge.


Yes. Exactly.

Both of these woman chose deceit. The husband didn't have the option of rejecting them for being cheaters. They deliberately betrayed the marriage vows and they defrauded the husband by letting him think the marriage was still valid when it was not.

when they cheated - they ended the marriage, but they remained taking the resources provided by the husband and marriage while returning nothing to the agreement.


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## Caribbean Man

Zanna said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> I was in an unhappy marriage too. My H did not respect me or my opinions. He decided it was the 50's and he should make all the financial decisions because he had the MBA. He was rude and disrespectful. Angry all the time and drank too much.
> 
> Despite being in my late 30's, I still got hit on by men in their 20's who told me I was sexy. I recall once I even had a very attractive, very toned 29 year old man tell me that he loved older women and that I could call him anytime. For any reason.
> 
> I guess since I was so unhappy, I should have taken these men up on their offers.
> 
> *But I didn't because even though I didn't care much for my H at the time, he is still the father of my children. And I actually pictured my children's faces and what it would mean to lose their respect if I was ever to get caught. *Also, because no matter what he did, I have to have a relationship with the father of my children for the rest of their lives and that was not worth damaging over a sleazy affair.
> 
> Well, my H had an affair, instead of dealing with my unhappiness or listening to me when I tried to tell him I was unhappy.
> 
> Does that mean I should have a revenge affair now? Because clearly I was so very wronged so I must be justified in chucking my morals and my integrity because I'm so UNHAPPY and angry.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I guess there are no more like you. They just don't make them like that anymore....
Like I posted on another thread this morning,based on the way my mother carried about herself during marriage and even after her divorce,I was able to choose a wife,who has made me a better man and continue daily to do so...
There MUST be a set standard for future generations.
A lot of people just not thinking,they simply reacting..So whilst the adults fight the children suffer.And long after the parents die,their children live on to continue where the parents left off.
Wrecking more lives
Congratulations Zanna!


----------



## it is what it is

> You, as well as it_is_what_is, are so sure of yourselves that a divorce is not forth coming. I wonder how the two of you will feel if you're both proven wrong.



I never said I was so sure a divorce wasn’t coming, quite honestly I almost expect divorce papers to show up eventually.



> It Is What It is... your husband refused to have sex in a public car park?
> 
> NO? Really? Now why on EARTH would someone decline to have sex in a public car park? Where they might be seen by people they know, people they didn't know, restaurant staff, security staff, the police, children?
> 
> Nope. You can't think of a reason? Oh. OK. Then I guess everything is your husband's fault, then?


Oh, whatever, Mr Prude, it’s not like it was going to be in the front parking spot of the restaurant, we were out for a few hours with NO kids, I was trying to be spontaneous and fun and please him on our “date”(may have even been our anniversary) wanting nothing in return… as we were at a red light waiting to pull into the parking lot, I slid next to him and started rubbing him while suggesting before we go in that we park in the back corner and have a little fun before going in. You apparently have no sense of adventure either. I guess I assumed all men would love their wife to do something like that. My bad.



> It appears that these two women have chosen to complicate their lives and are unwilling to do the needed sacrifices to lead successful, separate lives as divorced women. They have grown too comfortable with their lifestyles, financed in large part by their husbands, and they don't want to find themselves working their tails off just like their husbands have been doing all these years.*
> 
> Both EI and IIWII have stressed that they don't want to divorce because of the financially devastating impact it would have on their families but what would happen if their husbands died? What then?


First, let me repeat myself in admitting that I chose to do what I did and make no excuse for it. I have not denied that I was in the wrong and I made that post knowing I was going to be judged harshly, this is afterall TAM. I have been lurking for months. 

I do not recall stressing anything about being financially devasted if we divorced, I am a simple “no frills” kinda woman, I am not a bored housewife, I do not shop at the mall and rack up credit cards to make myself happy, I am very conservative, I am “low maintenance”, I exercise and keep up with myself mentally and physically and not on anti depressants or anxiety meds like half the women in America, and look pretty damn good for my age. I have my own bank account and my own credit cards and pay for “my things” with my own money. I am independent and would have no fear moving on with my life.

So, yes, I chose to complicate my life. I admit to being comfortable in my lifestyle, which is not lavish by any means, but it is a stable environment with routine which kids need. I work 30 hours per week and do the majority of the house work and take care of the kids. I am a very independent woman and would have no problem divorcing.

Did you ever consider him being the one afraid to start the divorce process? He has it made just as well as I do if you are looking at it like that. I cook, clean, shop, take care of the kids, pay the bills, etc. etc. He comes home, eats dinner, and assumes the position on the couch. I am sure he is very much afraid what it will do to him financially if we divorced, and who would take care of him. He is probably at a stage in his life where he is afraid he will not be able to find anyone else, he has let himself go a bit, over weight, does not excercise, not very out going.

As far as the kids – all three of my kids are very happy, well rounded kids, all A honor roll middle school students, they are not abused, they are not being raised in an environment where physical or emotional abuse is taking place , no drugs, no smoking, etc. Sure, they obviously are not seeing open affection taking place between their parents, how many _really_ do? But do not pull the “look what you are doing to your children” crap. I can assure you’s that the kids will be the first priority in any decisions we make and that they will never be made to think it is their fault, they will be reminded that their Dad and I brought them into this world together for a reason and we wouldn’t want it any other way. 

As I mentioned, it happened, it was my fault and it was wrong. From here on out “it is what it is” and how we handle it. At the moment, we are doing the best we can under the circumstances. 

I am not looking for answers from anyone, I made the post since I could relate to Empty Inside. You people can chew me up and spit me out and leave me for the dogs all you want if it makes you feel better.


----------



## morituri

it is what it is said:


> I am not looking for answers from anyone, I made the post since I could relate to Empty Inside.


You may not be looking for answers but are you naive enough to believe that your comments, as well as EI, would not elicit comments from us? and more so when you place the blame on your husbands for having cheated on them? C'mon. 



> You people can chew me up and spit me out and leave me for the dogs all you want if it makes you feel better.


Now you flatter yourself too much if you truly believe this. :rofl:


----------



## cpacan

it is what it is said:


> As I mentioned, it happened, it was my fault and it was wrong. From here on out “it is what it is” and how we handle it. At the moment, we are doing the best we can under the circumstances.
> 
> I am not looking for answers from anyone, I made the post since I could relate to Empty Inside. You people can chew me up and spit me out and leave me for the dogs all you want if it makes you feel better.


One part of me feels satisfied with your post because you absolutely clarifies that you are totally aware of your actions, you clearly know what you are doing and make no excuses this time.

But then another part of me feels very sad. Is this just what it is?? Screw around, have it your way - no regrets, deception, lies...? Is that your understanding of a close relationship with another human being?

Is cheating simply your answer to marital as well as personal challenges? I am afraid I just don't get your easygoing attitude on this.


----------



## morituri

it is what it is said:


> But do not pull the “look what you are doing to your children” crap


No worries, we wouldn't dare feel sympathy for your children who believe that their mother is incapable of stabbing their father in the back in such fashion.


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## Phenix70

Oh lord, save me from sanctimonious people like ITWIS. You madam are pathetic & ridiculous, you do not have a marriage, you have the illusion of one. I saw plenty of open affection between my parents when I was growing up. Maybe you didn't & that's why in your mind you were able to go forsake your vows. Where was the concern for your children when you were screwing the OM? Did you really think that by doing that you were somehow a better role model? Please, get over yourself, you selfish shrew. It's women like you who give the rest of us a bad name.


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## Almostrecovered

unfortunately using a bold font won't help get thru to her either


----------



## TorontoBoyWest

morituri said:


> In my book divorce IS preferable than an affair.
> 
> These two women put so much emphasis on the allegedly bad behavior of their husbands but at the very least it can be said that their husbands did not hide their allegedly appalling behavior towards them like they did when they chose to take on an OM and have a long term affair. They were presented with two honorable options, stay or leave but instead they chose a third and cowardly action, infidelity. Not only that, they still want to enjoy the best of both worlds at their husband's and families expense.
> 
> Tens of thousands of men and women per day divorce their spouses for reasons that have nothing to do with infidelity. For the vast majority it is not an easy decision and they face hard financial hardships in the beginning of their new lives as divorced people. Yet unlike these two women, they realize that staying in a bad marriage is much worse no matter how financially comfortable it would be for them and their children.



As usual Mori drops a truth bomb.

Cheating on your spouse is a cowardly act. There is no justification. There is no "But I was faithful for 27 years! Doesn't that count for something???"

EI... you hated what was your life. You tried your best. You did everything you could, or so you say, to save your marriage.

You should have left. Dropped the D application on the table. Said enough was enough.

You took the cowards way out. And there is nothing that justifies that. There are couples in far worse financial and familial situations then you.

Divorce is not the end of the world. You pick up, brush yourself off, learn from your mistakes and do the best you can. Saying that it is impossible to D is a cop out. A shameful one to hide selfish acts.

You didnt ruin a marriage EI... that was more then likely already dead. You ruined yourself.

When you finally get out of the justifying fog, you will realize that. All of your beliefs of what type of person you are?

When the fog is gone... you will realize that person is gone too.

And that is the real shame of all this.


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## iheartlife

it is what it is said:


> Did you ever consider him being the one afraid to start the divorce process? He has it made just as well as I do if you are looking at it like that. I cook, clean, shop, take care of the kids, pay the bills, etc. etc. He comes home, eats dinner, and assumes the position on the couch. I am sure he is very much afraid what it will do to him financially if we divorced, and who would take care of him. He is probably at a stage in his life where he is afraid he will not be able to find anyone else, he has let himself go a bit, over weight, does not excercise, not very out going.


Oh, so now HE'S the coward for not divorcing you! :rofl: That one deserves a standing ovation.

You are right, he doesn't sound like a prize, the way _you_ describe him. But FYI, you have that bit about pure cowardice utterly backwards.

Affairs are all about keeping all the control and choices in your corner. Be sure and lie to your spouse--don't ever tell them the truth--because that would unfortunately open their eyes to the fact that they have options other than being married to a woman who exposes them to STDs.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

*"I found it elsewhere and have no regrets. Life is too short for that crap"*


No, life is too short to live a lie.

Could there be anything more insulting to a BS than
the WW or WH telling them "it is what it is"?

God, I HATE that stupid cliche.

It IS what YOU make/made of it.

No need to tell us who the real coward is… it's quite apparent.


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## morituri

What I find ludicrous about 'it is what it is' comments about how well her children's lives have turned out, is how much their lives would have been devastated to learn what she had done. More so if their father had chosen to divorce her for her marital betrayal. The destruction of their lives would be entirely upon her shoulders.


----------



## Caribbean Man

This one is for all the guys who have been there.

Too Late,Too Soon - John Secada.

Jon Secada - Too Late, Too Soon (Legendado-BR) - YouTube

Stay strong fellers, some people will NEVER understand.


----------



## Shaggy

When someone posts "I admit what I did/am still doing is wrong, but I doing it". It's is so full of double talk. 

If you actually knew it to be wrong : you would stop doing it and feel guit and remorse.

The fact that they don't stop, thru don't feel guilt, the have no remorse proves they don't actually accept that it is wrong. They know others find it wrongs but they personally feel its completely ok for them. They are really just bothered by other peoples judgement and not the wrongness of their actions.

So pease stop saying you know it's wrong. You are lying when you say that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StandingInQuicksand

Fvstringpicker said:


> Among the options, I'm just wondering where affairs fall. We know murder is a worse choice. Is divorce always a better choice than an affair? Perhaps. Perhaps not. If the husband didn't care if the wife found a lover, and it happens, divorce may be a worse solution. All husbands are not devastated by such action. The situation I proposed, where the wife leaves the children and improves their lifestyle is usually done by the man.


I'd prefer being murdered to being cheated on again. Especially in the way that I was. Seriously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Yeah Gods! I am a prude? Yeah, whatever!:rofl:

it is what it is seems to think that because her husband did not want to have sex in a public car park, that this somehow gave her a free pass to cheat on him and her family.


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## MattMatt

StandingInQuicksand said:


> I'd prefer being murdered to being cheated on again. Especially in the way that I was. Seriously.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


StandingInQuicksand, they really do not understand how much pain is caused when the one they love cheats on them.

Oh, yeah, they say they do. They think they do. But not really.


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## WorkOnIt

Amen Matt.

This whole thread makes me feel very ill.


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## akashNil

Empty Inside said:


> I've been reading this forum for several months. It's been very helpful but this is a topic that I have yet to find on here. My question is how much information is too much information? My husband and I have been married for 28 years and I had an affair. It went on for 16 months and ended two weeks ago when my husband noticed a number on my cell phone bill that I was calling and texting a lot with.
> 
> To make a long story short, my husband wants to save our marriage and is now becoming the husband that I have needed him to be for the last several years. We are talking more than we have in years... maybe ever. He is addressing my needs in ways that he had virtually ignored. My concern is that he, sometimes, asks for very explicit details of the sexual part of my affair. It's difficult for me to give him these graphic details because I am afraid that they will only haunt him and play over and over in his mind. He says that his imagination is what is torturing him. My husband is a good man, a good provider, and a good father, but he gave me very little emotional and physical intimacy throughout most of our marriage and none in the last several years. I went to counseling alone for a few years and he and I had a few sessions together. I got myself in the best physical and emotional shape possible and I tried very hard to make him understand that I was dying inside from the loneliness, isolation and emptiness. I told him that I could no longer live this way and, still, he made no changes. I desperately wanted to save my marriage. The harder I tried the more he withdrew from me. I told him that I couldn't live that way any longer and that I wasn't going to live my life without passion. Still nothing. In my loneliness, I reached out to an old love from my teen years. It sounds so stupid and cliche. My AP was divorced and after talking/texting for a few weeks we started an affair. I fell head over heels in love.... not just lust or infatuation.... love. The physical intimacy has always been lacking in my relationship with my husband. Well, the physical intimacy with my AP was like nothing I have ever experienced. I had no idea that it could really be that way. I know that that is exactly what my husband fears. So, when he asks for details, just how much detail do I share. He wants to know what we said to one another, where we were, what I felt, how many orgasms I had, how many times did we have sex, did he touch me like this or like that, did me massage my back, my feet. The sad part is that my husband is now trying to be all of the things that he has never been. It feels so forced to me and, honestly, I have no desire for him now. That breaks my heart because I truly don't want to see him hurting this way. Before anyone condemns me for doing what I did, please remember that I was faithful for nearly 27 years and I begged him to help me save our marriage. I hurt so much, for so long, that I physically ached inside. I used to tell my husband that I was starving and his response was that he wasn't hungry. Now, he's starving and I can't bear to see him in so much pain, but I am no longer in love with him. Whether I will end up with my AP in the long run is beside the point. My husband should not be my second choice, nor should I settle for my second choice. Even if I end up alone, I feel like my husband should have the opportunity to find a love in his life who can give her whole heart to him. He says that he has found the "love of his life" and it's me. Again, when he asks for graphic details, how do I answer those questions? BTW, I have cut off all contact with my AP until my husband and I can sort this out. But, it is killing me inside and my husband knows that. He is trying to help me through my pain and I know that I should be helping him through his.
> 
> Thanks, and I'm sorry this is so long.


There appears to be some honesty in your story. However, cheating is not an answer.

1. Your OM also must be around or above 50. If he doesn't have his own woman, that says a lot about him. You will probably not love him if you knew how he spent his 30 years.Or would you if only sex is that important?

2.You had best of both the worlds. A loving, caring husband and a sex God (OM). You wanted it to continue forever, but the OM has other plans. Was the phone call really a mistake? He KNOWS how sexually starved you are, and how you will go to any length to get that from him. So he is not so nice person as you suggest. He will just wait until you can't take it (the distance from him) more and leave your poor Husband.

3. He was your old love from your teen years - so your husband might be suspecting that the affair might be actually longer than 16 months.

4. You are around 50 - the clock is ticking. Did you ever think that Your husband, however boring he might be, will be with you and support you in your 60's and 70's and thereafter... Whereas the OM will soon look for another available Sex partner?

This entire story is very sad. 30 years of marriage, love and trust - All shattered in a few months. The poor fellow's remaining life will be spent in searching for details of your .... activities with the OM. His imagination or the facts - Either will kill him before his days are over.

I can understand what he is going through.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

StandingInQuicksand said:


> I'd prefer being murdered to being cheated on again. Especially in the way that I was. Seriously.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It sounds like you base too much of your own self worth on the actions of other people. And people are really fickle. Folks cheating and lying often has nothing to do with the people they cheat and lie to. Cheating spouses, abusive spouse, drunks and dope heads can be replaced in short order. Being dead, on this earth, is a little more permanent. Like anything, there are degrees of severity. Is cheating in an affair any worse than cheating with finances, misleading your spouse in other ways, or doing a host of other bad things. Depends on how you look at it.


----------



## akashNil

Zanna said:


> It seems you are trading your loving H (who is clearly not the perfect spouse but who among us is?) of many years with all your shared history and memories for good sex.
> 
> As for being in love with your AP, classic fog speak. Since when is love based on dishonesty? And what is so special about an affair born of ugliness and built on a foundation of lies and deceit. Wonderful people don't get involved with married people regardless of the tale of woe you spun for your AP. In the same way, emotionally mature people do not get involved with felons or drug addicts. Your morals should stay consistent regardless of circumstances. Emotionally mature people also know that before you start dating, you seek a divorce. There is no good or rational excuse for stabbing the father of your children in the back.
> 
> And cheaters often re-write the history of their marriages to justify the cheating or at the very least they magnify the problems and portray themselves as the victims. You stole your H's choices for 16 months. You let him live a lie. You are not the victim, he is. He is the ONLY victim in this situation. You acted poorly, selfishly and with gross entitlement.
> 
> I suggest you start Googling affairs and see what the chances of your so-called relationship with the kind of man that would date a married woman has of becoming a real relationship. What you had with your AP was all sunshine and lollypops and was probably made more exciting by the stench of betrayal and getting away with something naughty.
> 
> Be honest with your H. Own your poor choices and remember the chances of you regretting giving up all the good things you share with your husband for those very fleeting "in love" feelings that only last 1-2 years are great.
> 
> _Love is not a feeling. Many, many people possessing a feeling of love and even acting in response to that feeling act in all manner of unloving and destructive ways. It is not only possible but necessary for a loving person to avoid acting on feelings of love. I may meet a woman who strongly attracts me, whom I feel like loving, but because it would be destructive to my marriage to have an affair, I will say vocally or in the silence of my heart, "I feel like loving you, but I am not going to". My feelings of love may be unbounded, but my capacity to be loving is limited. I therefore must choose the person on whom to focus my capacity to love, toward whom to direct my will to love.
> 
> True love is not a feeling by which we are overwhelmed. It is a committed, thoughtful decision. Genuine love implies commitment and the exercise of wisdom. When we are concerned for someone's spiritual growth, we know that a lack of commitment is likely to be harmful and that commitment to that person is probably necessary for us to manifest our concern effectively.
> 
> Genuine love is volitional rather than emotional. The person who truly loves does so because of a decision to love. This person has made a commitment to be loving whether or not the loving feeling is present. If it is, so much the better; but if it isn't, the commitment to love, the will to love, still stands and is still exercised.
> 
> The common tendency to confuse love with feelings of love allows people all manner of self-deception. It is clear that there may be a self-serving quality in this tendency to confuse love with the feeling of love; it is easy and not at all unpleasant to find evidence of love in one's feelings. It may be difficult and painful to search for evidence of love in one's actions. But because true love is an act of will that often transcends ephemeral feelings of love, it is correct to say, "Love is as love does"._


Joining TAM is more than its worth due to posts like this.
Thanks Zanna.


----------



## MattMatt

Fvstringpicker said:


> It sounds like you base too much of your own self worth on the actions of other people. And people are really fickle. Folks cheating and lying often has nothing to do with the people they cheat and lie to. Cheating spouses, abusive spouse, drunks and dope heads can be replaced in short order. Being dead, on this earth, is a little more permanent. Like anything, there are degrees of severity. Is cheating in an affair any worse than cheating with finances, misleading your spouse in other ways, or doing a host of other bad things. Depends on how you look at it.


You simply do not understand.


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## snap

Fvstringpicker said:


> It sounds like you base too much of your own self worth on the actions of other people. And people are really fickle. Folks cheating and lying often has nothing to do with the people they cheat and lie to. Cheating spouses, abusive spouse, drunks and dope heads can be replaced in short order. Being dead, on this earth, is a little more permanent. Like anything, there are degrees of severity. Is cheating in an affair any worse than cheating with finances, misleading your spouse in other ways, or doing a host of other bad things. Depends on how you look at it.


I am quite a rational person, and never understood suicidal people.

Now that I was cheated on, I do.

It's not about looking this way or that way. You don't analyze when it is done upon you, you simply want to rip your own heart out, just to have the pain stop.


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## Fvstringpicker

MattMatt said:


> You simply do not understand.


MM we live in a world where people will shoot each other down for little or no reason. I don't know if your a Christian or even believe in Jesus Christ. His own people betrayed him in a manner that would make a cheating spouse look like a kid shooting marbles. Kids kill their own parents to expedite their inheritance. When you really think about it, a cheating spouse, as bad as it is, is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. If my spouse cheated and I knew about it, sure it would hurt and be a gross disappointment. But it wouldn't rise to a level to make me think death is a better alternative. There are other alternatives out there that are far more appealing. Like many are telling these two women that if they didn't like the way they were treated, they should have divorced. The same holds true of their husbands. If they don't like their wives behavior, replace them. Being a man means engaging with the world as it really is. And its often a rough and unfair place. Damned if I would sit around singing the blues as to why it happened. The bitc* would be history and I'd find a replacement.


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## lordmayhem

Zanna said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> I was in an unhappy marriage too. My H did not respect me or my opinions. He decided it was the 50's and he should make all the financial decisions because he had the MBA. He was rude and disrespectful. Angry all the time and drank too much.
> 
> Despite being in my late 30's, I still got hit on by men in their 20's who told me I was sexy. I recall once I even had a very attractive, very toned 29 year old man tell me that he loved older women and that I could call him anytime. For any reason.
> 
> I guess since I was so unhappy, I should have taken these men up on their offers.
> 
> But I didn't because even though I didn't care much for my H at the time, he is still the father of my children. And I actually pictured my children's faces and what it would mean to lose their respect if I was ever to get caught. Also, because no matter what he did, I have to have a relationship with the father of my children for the rest of their lives and that was not worth damaging over a sleazy affair.
> 
> Well, my H had an affair, instead of dealing with my unhappiness or listening to me when I tried to tell him I was unhappy.
> 
> Does that mean I should have a revenge affair now? Because clearly I was so very wronged so I must be justified in chucking my morals and my integrity because I'm so UNHAPPY and angry.


:iagree:

You, my dear lady, brought a tear to my eye. Bravo! I feel the same way.


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## warlock07

> He comes home, eats dinner, and assumes the position on the couch. I am sure he is very much afraid what it will do to him financially if we divorced, and who would take care of him. He is probably at a stage in his life where he is afraid he will not be able to find anyone else, he has let himself go a bit, over weight, does not excercise, not very out going.


Anyone notice this part of the post. Lots of explanation here. She thinks she is better than him and doing him a favor.


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## snap

Fvstringpicker, I think we all agree that dying is bad, mmkay? You miss the point. Being cheated on is draining, haunting, humiliating experience that you can't cast away just because you realize it's "not the end of the world".

It's not a kind of problem which benefits from logical reasoning.. you can argue pros and contras, plan your actions, you can fully realize you are a good catch in the eyes of many other women, and yes, it hurt Jesus more (but to be fair he was a God). Well, none of that helps.


----------



## Rmommy22

Fvstringpicker said:


> Like many are telling these two women that if they didn't like the way they were treated, they should have divorced. The same holds true of their husbands. If they don't like their wives behavior, replace them. Being a man means engaging with the world as it really is. And its often a rough and unfair place. Damned if I would sit around singing the blues as to why it happened. The bitc* would be history and I'd find a replacement.


Really??? Yet you are the one who posted that because your wife was 'frigid' you went out and cheated with over 20 women...Obviously you didn't like you wife's 'behavior' but instead of leaving her you decided to cheat. Then you grew enough balls to leave. 
Just amazed at the contradictions here!:scratchhead:


----------



## aug

morituri said:


> Both EI and IIWII have stressed that they don't want to divorce because of the financially devastating impact it would have on their families but what would happen if their husbands died? What then?



Life insurance, life insurance.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

Rmommy22 said:


> ..Obviously you didn't like you wife's 'behavior' but instead of leaving her you decided to cheat. Then you grew enough balls to leave.
> :scratchhead:


That's pretty much the long and the short of it. That was a long time ago and like a lot of things you learn a lot. That said, I may be a little presumptive on how I believe a person should just "move on and write it off as experience". Thusfar, to my knowledge, I haven't had a spouse cheat on me. So I'm really saying what I think I'd do and how I'd feel. I admit the reality could be different. However, I'd hope I would take my own advice.


----------



## cabin fever

Fvstringpicker said:


> That's pretty much the long and the short of it.
> 
> *Hmm, a cheater, saying its ok to cheat, if your in a bad relationship. this makes sense now. *
> 
> 
> I haven't had a spouse cheat on me.
> 
> *You must have stayed at a holiday inn express then, since you seem to know it all. *


As dumb as i find your comments, I still hope you never have to experience your heart being ripped out by the one person you thought would never do it to you.


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## MattMatt

Is it me or is there a whiff of entitlement here?

_"I did X for Y period of years, therefore I have earned the right to cheat on my husband and to cheat on my children."_


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## TorontoBoyWest

MattMatt said:


> Is it me or is there a whiff of entitlement here?
> 
> _"I did X for Y period of years, therefore I have earned the right to cheat on my husband and to cheat on my children."_


I also read alot of "oh well. It's his fault that I am here anyways. I might say that I accept the responsibility of my actions. But really, that is all window dressing. And let's be honest, I couldnt get a job that I am DESERVING of... so why bother? I'll just string hubby along for awhile"


----------



## Zanna

Fvstringpicker said:


> That's pretty much the long and the short of it. That was a long time ago and like a lot of things you learn a lot. That said, I may be a little presumptive on how I believe a person should just "move on and write it off as experience". Thusfar, to my knowledge, I haven't had a spouse cheat on me. So I'm really saying what I think I'd do and how I'd feel. I admit the reality could be different. However, I'd hope I would take my own advice.


So you're an ex adulterer defending adultery? Shocking.


And yes, until you have been the one cheated on, it's hard to really know how it feels.

It's like those people who don't have kids but say that they get what it's like to have kids because they have dogs. :slap:


----------



## MattMatt

Zanna said:


> So you're an ex adulterer defending adultery? Shocking.
> 
> 
> And yes, until you have been the one cheated on, it's hard to really know how it feels.
> 
> It's like those people who don't have kids but say that they get what it's like to have kids because they have dogs. :slap:


Most cheated spouses do not want to kill themselves. But they do either wish they were dead or they wish they could die. Just to stop the pain.

Your heart feels like it is dead, so what would be so wrong with the rest of your body following it? After all, that would stop the pain of the betrayal.


----------



## Zanna

MattMatt said:


> Most cheated spouses do not want to kill themselves. But they do either wish they were dead or they wish they could die. Just to stop the pain.
> 
> Your heart feels like it is dead, so what would be so wrong with the rest of your body following it? After all, that would stop the pain of the betrayal.


Exactly and this feeling seems pretty common among the betrayed.

I have NEVER been suicidal but in the days and weeks following D-day, for the first time in my life I really GOT what it must feel like to be suicidal because I wanted to escape the pain so badly. And you can't and that's frustrating and horrifying at the same time.

I would have never attempted suicide but there were a couple days during which, if someone would have broken into my home and threatened to shoot me, I'm not quite sure I would have cared all that much. Crazy? Yes. But until you've been there, you have NO IDEA.


----------



## MattMatt

But there is nothing the OP can do about the pain her husband is going through. Absolutely nothing. Especially not with an: "I was entitled" attitude. That could really be rubbing his face in it.


----------



## WorkOnIt

Zanna said:


> Exactly and this feeling seems pretty common among the betrayed.
> 
> I have NEVER been suicidal but in the days and weeks following D-day, for the first time in my life I really GOT what it must feel like to be suicidal because I wanted to escape the pain so badly. And you can't and that's frustrating and horrifying at the same time.
> 
> I would have never attempted suicide but there were a couple days during which, if someone would have broken into my home and threatened to shoot me, I'm not quite sure I would have cared all that much. Crazy? Yes. But until you've been there, you have NO IDEA.


Although not suicidal, I saw my spouse holding a steak knife awhile ago, and recall thinking to myself "Could you please just quickly stab me in the chest because it would probably hurt less, and be over quicker" ...

This was before I realized I could live with or without her, depending on whether she was truly remorseful and out of the fog, or not.


----------



## MattMatt

WorkOnIt said:


> Although not suicidal, I saw my spouse holding a steak knife awhile ago, and recall thinking to myself "Could you please just quickly stab me in the chest because it would probably hurt less, and be over quicker" ...
> 
> This was before I realized I could live with or without her, depending on whether she was truly remorseful and out of the fog, or not.


Oh, God! Oh, F**k! That sent a shiver down my spine. That's brought something back from nearly 15 years ago. But in my case, it was a vegetable knife she was holding, I seem to recall. 

I hadn't thought of that in all that time. Whew. Damn.

Feeling better now. Triggering over...


----------



## Fvstringpicker

cabin fever said:


> As dumb as i find your comments, I still hope you never have to experience your heart being ripped out by the one person you thought would never do it to you.


I appreciate it. Bear in mind I didn't say I've never been cheated on. I said I have not knowingly been cheated on. Hey, ignorance my be bliss as they say.



Zanna said:


> So you're an ex adulterer defending adultery? Shocking.


I'm really not defending the act. I'm defending these two women, who in my opinion, may have certain pressure they gave into. It's like murder. Sometimes its first degree; sometimes its second, third, man slaughter etc. Their situation seems a little different than a woman who withholds love an affection from her husband while banging the rugby team. 
If you've ever work in the judicial system you may think adultery is not on the top of the list when seeing things spouses do to each other. An example is a recent case here where a woman found her husband sexually abusing her 4 y/o son (his step son--while taking a bath together while she was out and came back unexpectedly ) I believe she may be willing to trade places with many on here who's husband is running around with a co-worker.

.


----------



## bandit.45

Empty Inside said:


> For so long, I have been "Empty Inside."


Hopefully you will soon be homeless too. 

I read your husband's thread and I recommended that he send you packing and file for divorce. 

Nothing your husband did or didn't do warrants the utter humiliation, emasculation, pain and heartache you have inflicted on him with your amoral choices. 

Nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fvstringpicker

bandit.45 said:


> I read your husband's thread and I recommended that he send you packing and file for divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Which thread is his? I'd like to read it and get a better feel for both sides of the story. I have a theory though that seems to prove out. Behave in a manner that makes your woman think you feel she's unwanted and undesirable and watch her prove you wrong. People oftem get more/less than warranted.


----------



## bandit.45

Fvstringpicker said:


> Which thread is his? I'd like to read it and get a better feel for both sides of the story. I have a theory though that seems to prove out. Behave in a manner that makes your woman think you feel she's unwanted and undesirable and watch her prove you wrong.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48667-wifes-affair-how-move-forward.html#post824230


----------



## morituri

*http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48667-wifes-affair-how-move-forward.html#post824189*


----------



## bandit.45

Fvstringpicker said:


> Which thread is his? I'd like to read it and get a better feel for both sides of the story. I have a theory though that seems to prove out. Behave in a manner that makes your woman think you feel she's unwanted and undesirable and watch her prove you wrong. People oftem get more/less than warranted.


Theories are nice, but I don't give a sh*t what he did to make her feel unloved or unwanted. Okay, he's emotionally stunted and lousy in the sack. You could level that against half the males in existence. 

What she did in return is 10x worse. 

He didn't rip her sense of her womanhood away from her the way she did him in such a blatant and disgusting manner.


----------



## bandit.45

I think its charming how the OP has got half of you manipulated into feeling sorry for her.


----------



## Almostrecovered

half? maybe one or two


----------



## bandit.45

Almostrecovered said:


> half? maybe one or two


Okay "some".... Mr. Beancounter.


----------



## Almostrecovered

no problem Mr. Hyperbole


----------



## bandit.45

Almostrecovered said:


> no problem Mr. Hyperbole


:rofl:


----------



## Zanna

Fvstringpicker said:


> I'm really not defending the act. I'm defending these two women, who in my opinion, may have certain pressure they gave into. It's like murder. Sometimes its first degree; sometimes its second, third, man slaughter etc. Their situation seems a little different than a woman who withholds love an affection from her husband while banging the rugby team.
> If you've ever work in the judicial system you may think adultery is not on the top of the list when seeing things spouses do to each other. An example is a recent case here where a woman found her husband sexually abusing her 4 y/o son (his step son--while taking a bath together while she was out and came back unexpectedly ) I believe she may be willing to trade places with many on here who's husband is running around with a co-worker.


So exactly what are you condoning or "defending" then?

It seems like you're saying, "Oh, you poor thing. I understand exactly why you cheated on your neglectful, horrible husband. You had every right to cheat because he was just so awful. You go, Girl!"

And obviously there is always someone out there in more pain. Does that negate anyone else's pain BECAUSE somebody else has it worse? Please.

I'm sure you blamed your cheating all on your wife too and I'm sure you were forced into cheating by her neglect. 

And what the hell is first degree cheating? BJ's in the back of a pick-up? Cheating is cheating. There are no degrees. Good grief. :banghead:


----------



## morituri

bandit.45 said:


> Theories are nice, but I don't give a sh*t what he did to make her feel unloved or unwanted. Okay, he's emotionally stunted and lousy in the sack. You could level that against half the males in existence.
> 
> What she did in return is 10x worse.
> 
> He didn't rip her sense of her womanhood away from her the way she did him in such a blatant and disgusting manner.


I agree except it was not 10x times worse but 1000x times worse. 

Now if they get divorced, and she wants to be completely honest with any man she is interested in having a relationship with, she's going to have to reveal to him how she cheated on her husband and how it ended their marriage. That should be something for her to look forward to and something that any man she falls for will love to know about her.


----------



## Zanna

morituri said:


> I agree except it was not 10x times worse but 1000x times worse.
> 
> Now if they get divorced, and she wants to be completely honest with any man she is interested in having a relationship with, she's going to have to reveal to him how she cheated on her husband and how it ended their marriage. That should be something for her to look forward to and something that any man she falls for will love to know about her.



Oh, but I'm sure she'll find the kind of man who will feel "oh so sorry for her" and buy her pathetic poor me story. Until she cheats on him when the going gets tough and she feels "empty inside" again.


----------



## morituri

I agree Zanna because as PT Barnum is often allegedly quoted as saying "There's a sucker born every minute".


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Hopefully you will soon be homeless too.
> 
> I read your husband's thread and I recommended that he send you packing and file for divorce.
> 
> Nothing your husband did or didn't do warrants the utter humiliation, emasculation, pain and heartache you have inflicted on him with your amoral choices.
> 
> Nothing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Which is his thread? I wonder how HE remembers the last 27 years?


----------



## AngryandUsed

morituri said:


> I agree except it was not 10x times worse but 1000x times worse.
> 
> Now if they get divorced, and she wants to be completely honest with any man she is interested in having a relationship with, she's going to have to reveal to him how she cheated on her husband and how it ended their marriage. That should be something for her to look forward to and something that any man she falls for will love to know about her.


Mori, what will happen if he was also less attentive than her AP or present H?


----------



## bandit.45

MattMatt said:


> Which is his thread? I wonder how HE remembers the last 27 years?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48667-wifes-affair-how-move-forward.html#post824230


----------



## Shaggy

Her husband is now taking T treatments, he's getting much more sexual, and he is more engaged emotionally. He is seriously increasing what he can offer to a woman. The OP should realize this, and realize that many women are going to see him a great opportunity and make a play for him 
.

She thinks she is the drivers seat of choosing between her OM, who doesn't want to give her a commitment or full relationship, and a husband who has no other options than her.

Reality is, she can go back to a looser who can't get his own real full relationship full time with a woman. Instead he needs to take what he can get with another mans wife.

Meanwhile, her husband is raising his sex rank and quite possibly will soon realize he can find a better partner, younger, and more attractive than her.

OP needs to change her game plan to reflect that she isn't in strong position, but in fact is in a very weak one,where she looses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EI

You guys are enjoying this very much. To make this a little easier for you, you might want to consider moving over to my husband's thread, now, where I will be posting a new response.


----------



## mahike

No one is enjoying this. Most on her are hurting BS. A number of people are trying or have R with their WS. The problem here is you are blame shifing and making excuses.

I am sure your husband has problems that would need to be address in any R with you.

You have to take the first steps an take responsability for what you have done. You made the choice to cheat not him. Do not throw it on him and you should be very remorseful for what you have done to him.

If you want to fix your marriage all of the first steps are on your shoulders.


----------



## aug

Empty Inside said:


> You guys are enjoying this very much. To make this a little easier for you, you might want to consider moving over to my husband's thread, now, where I will be posting a new response.


I doubt it's enjoyment.

We're all at different stages of experience, knowledge and maturity. There are lessons to learn from all this. Maybe from your experience you could impart wisdom onto your kids and others?


----------



## bandit.45

Empty,

I didn't enjoy what I said as much as you seemed to enjoy telling us how well the OM banged you. Who's more insensitive?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

We are not enjoying it. What I do see is posters pointing out that while you have gone currently NC, you haven't truly ended the affair. You would still be cheating, even after Dday if the OM hadnt turned you away. You've, informed hubby you don't love him, feel nothing during sex, and the OM is so so much better than him. Honestly there is nothing redeeming for you in what you posted.

The answers have been pretty nice considering.

But you really do need to look at the OM for what he is. Good guys never, ever, not even once, cheat with married women. They wouldn't accept being the bit on the side. They would only accept a real relationship. So It speaks volumes about the character of the OM.

As for your husband. He's actively improving himself. He thinks it's to save the marriage, but soon he will realize that it's also for him.

You know the T treatments that a firing up his sex drive? Well they are also giving him more energy, spunk, and spine. They make a man feel confident and alive. On the hunt.

Right now he's hunting you, but be very careful because you current attitude will drive him away, and he now has the spine and drive to move away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NextTimeAround

As I said before, the biggest problem with affairs, IMO, is that the BS is operating under false premises.

My sister believes that he exH had an affair with his mistress for about 6 years before he asked for a divorce. They bought property together. She believes that he paid for her nursing degree. I wonder how many times he told his wife /my sister and his daughters, I'm sorry, we can't afford that.

and the timing of their moving house, while in the same metropolitan area, over the state line.......into a state that's less favorable to custodial parents.


----------



## BigLiam

Can you clarify your reasons for not simply divorcing vs cheating? I do not understand why you felt the need to abuse your husband just because you were not satisfied, when divorce is such an a=easy and honorable option? Please explain. Thanks.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

Zanna said:


> I'm sure you blamed your cheating all on your wife too and I'm sure you were forced into cheating by her neglect.
> 
> And what the hell is first degree cheating? BJ's in the back of a pick-up? Cheating is cheating. There are no degrees. Good grief. :banghead:


First, cheating can never be justified. But lets be honest. Many poster have ask the question, "well if ya'll are not intimate its like roommates, why be married? When a spouse is neglectful and cold it makes it easier to step across that line.

Second, compare it to sealing. All stealing is stealing right? But is a caretaker embezzling $10,000 from a 89 year old the same as stealing 5 gallons of gas out of someones shed. Well, maybe if its your gas they stole. But fortunately, the judicial systems sees it a little different.


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48667-wifes-affair-how-move-forward.html#post824230


Now, either what EI said is true, or she is a master manipulator who was able to control her clueless spouse to feed a "pity me, pity poor me" vibe.

After all with so many children, it reminds me of an old story of as couple who split up 20 years previously, yet had ten children. When asked how this could be she said: "He keeps coming back to apologise."

I raise this because any relationship as bad as the one outlined here should have had zero children, right? Or am I being naive?


----------



## MattMatt

BigLiam said:


> Can you clarify your reasons for not simply divorcing vs cheating? I do not understand why you felt the need to abuse your husband just because you were not satisfied, when divorce is such an a=easy and honorable option? Please explain. Thanks.


But this way the husband funded his own cuckolding!

So perhaps there was a sense of revenge amongst the entitlement?


----------



## NextTimeAround

MattMatt said:


> Now, either what EI said is true, or she is a master manipulator who was able to control her clueless spouse to feed a "pity me, pity poor me" vibe.
> 
> After all with so many children, it reminds me of an old story of as couple who split up 20 years previously, yet had ten children. When asked how this could be she said: "He keeps coming back to apologise."
> 
> *I raise this because any relationship as bad as the one outlined here should have had zero children, right? Or am I being naive?*


Or maybe one or two. Otherwise, single women who have a lot of children, have a lot of baby daddies.


----------



## Zanna

Fvstringpicker said:


> First, cheating can never be justified. But lets be honest. Many poster have ask the question, "well if ya'll are not intimate its like roommates, why be married? When a spouse is neglectful and cold it makes it easier to step across that line.
> 
> Second, compare it to sealing. All stealing is stealing right? But is a caretaker embezzling $10,000 from a 89 year old the same as stealing 5 gallons of gas out of someones shed. Well, maybe if its your gas they stole. But fortunately, the judicial systems sees it a little different.


She had an 18 MONTH AFFAIR. Hardly comparable to stealing a little gas from a shed.


And if you're living like roommates, again, IT'S CALLED A DIVORCE.


----------



## lordmayhem

Empty Inside, what do you want to do now? Do you want to Reconcile (R) with your betrayed husband, or do you want to continue your affair and divorce?


----------



## MattMatt

Why do I ask about children in divorce?

Because I have three friends who were cheated on. One who was left with two very young children when he husband's affair was exposed and he left with the AP. And another who was left pregnant with twins when he husband suddenly left her for her best friend. And one whose husband was working away who fell for a work colleague and just bailed on her and her son.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

lordmayhem said:


> Empty Inside, what do you want to do now? Do you want to Reconcile (R) with your betrayed husband, or do you want to continue your affair and divorce?


She wants to post here and play the victim card.

Pathetic, really.


----------



## Vanguard

Empty Inside, you debase yourself in justifying yourself. I am truly, honestly disgusted. 

That being said I would concur with the vast majority of what has been said here- be honest with him. You aren't thinking about him, you're thinking about you. Don't cushion the truth in any way. He deserves to know exactly what you are. So tell him. 

But know this- your passions will fade, your body will age, and your new relationship is doomed to die; because it was born out of sin. It is the fruition of your pursuit of something fleeting which will not, cannot fulfill. When you are 70 years old are you going to look back and smile at yourself for the choice you've made? Even as early as your 50's, what will you want? Will you still want your passionate new lover, or will you long for the true man who loved you, provided for you and your children? 

This world told you a lie and you swallowed every bit of it. 

The only other thing I can say is congratulations: you have the option of walking away from responsibility, accountability, family and true love. And all you're getting is some guilt. 

God has exacted from you much, much less than what you have incurred.


----------



## bandit.45

Amen.


----------



## river rat

Wow. I've been away for awhile, so I just saw your thread. You've certainly gotten a lot of attention here. Just to put in my 2 cents: you must decide if you wish to reconcile. If you cannot commit to that, there is no reason to give your husband the details. Many here, and apparently many counselors, advise to give whatever details are requested. In your case, that's sure to increase his pain, which is already substantial. Unless you can throw yourself heart and soul into healing your marriage, there's really no point in giving the details. If you can't do this, please move on, and let him try to heal himself.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

bandit.45 said:


> Amen.


Now pass the gravy!... I mean divorce papers....


----------



## Fvstringpicker

I'm just curious if anybody here thinks they should reconcile. If you read both her and her husbands post, it's obvious that, regardless what they claim, they don't love each other. She is at least honest in that fact. If you read her husbands post, in conjunction with hers, she is and was far from number one his book or a priority in his lfe. My guess is he lost interest in her long ago; Hence, his lack of interest in intimacy. (talk about her using him as an excuse for an affair. How about using low T as an excuse for him not wanting to make love to her?) I think the only reason he's showing interest now is because he's losing/lost her. And men don't like to lose. It like my uncle J.P. said, "That boy of mine wouldn't even pet his damn dog. Now all he does is cry and whine because somebody sole it."


----------



## Acabado

Why did you restarted the affair after the MC sessions?
Did you ever had the intention to stop?
Did you really stopped contact at any moment?
Do you think ther's a way in earth you can difuse the huge amount of anger you feel towards your husband?
Would you feel capable (or willingly) to give a chance to your husband in bed now he has a normal libido?


----------



## iheartlife

Fvstringpicker said:


> I'm just curious if anybody here thinks they should reconcile. If you read both her and her husbands post, it's obvious that, regardless what they claim, they don't love each other. She is at least honest in that fact. If you read her husbands post, in conjunction with hers, she is and was far from number one his book or a priority in his lfe. My guess is he lost interest in her long ago; Hence, his lack of interest in intimacy. (talk about her using him as an excuse for an affair. How about using low T as an excuse for him not wanting to make love to her?) I think the only reason he's showing interest now is because he's losing/lost her. And men don't like to lose. It like my uncle J.P. said, "That boy of mine wouldn't even pet his damn dog. Now all he does is cry and whine because somebody sole it."


I'm basically posting similar things in the other thread. Why is either one of them trying to R? She wants R more than he does, evidently; he wants us to persuade him why he should bother with R. She doesn't love him--so why does she want R? "Can't afford a divorce" isn't exactly unique a reason, but it does lack something in the romance department.

Someday you are going to compile all the sayings of your grandpa, uncle, and sundry relatives into a book that will be an NY Times bestseller. Wisdom of the Hollers, or something like that. I mean that affectionately, even though I don't always agree with you.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

"Wisdom of the Hollers"? I like that. Thanks, Ma chère.


----------



## bandit.45

For God's sake somebody shoot this dying horse! 

This story ranks right up there with some of the most pathetic cheating stories on TAM!


----------



## Fvstringpicker

bandit.45 said:


> For God's sake somebody shoot this dying horse!
> 
> This story ranks right up there with some of the most pathetic cheating stories on TAM!


I thought it was intriguing the way some folks wanted her to stand there a slit her throat.


----------



## TBT

Fvstringpicker said:


> I'm just curious if anybody here thinks they should reconcile. If you read both her and her husbands post, it's obvious that, regardless what they claim, they don't love each other. She is at least honest in that fact. If you read her husbands post, in conjunction with hers, she is and was far from number one his book or a priority in his lfe. My guess is he lost interest in her long ago; Hence, his lack of interest in intimacy. (talk about her using him as an excuse for an affair. How about using low T as an excuse for him not wanting to make love to her?) I think the only reason he's showing interest now is because he's losing/lost her. And men don't like to lose. It like my uncle J.P. said, "That boy of mine wouldn't even pet his damn dog. Now all he does is cry and whine because somebody sole it."


Personally what I got from the OP was that while she really didn't want to work on it,she has a conscience and places some value on the previous years of her marriage even though she no longer loves her H.I suggested she D instead of letting her H feel there was hope,where there really was none.


----------



## bandit.45

Fvstringpicker said:


> I thought it was intriguing the way some folks wanted her to stand there a slit her throat.


By horse I meant the marriage not her. Quit twisting my words banjo boy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> By horse I meant the marriage not her. Quit twisting my words banjo boy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Was that twisting your word, or blameshifting, bandit?


----------



## Fvstringpicker

bandit.45 said:


> Quit twisting my words banjo boy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for reminding me about banjo boy Bandit. Hey, check out my new avatar. Can you post mp3 files on here? I'd like for ya'll to hear a little something I put together on the ole five string. It's called "Cheaters Breakdown". Ya'll like the hard drive of Bluegrass don't you?


----------



## cantthinkstraight

Empty Inside said:


> *You guys are enjoying this very much. * To make this a little easier for you, you might want to consider moving over to my husband's thread, now, where I will be posting a new response.


Oh, please.

Hasn't your pity party run out of steam yet?

Your perception that anyone here revels in your sick self-confidence 
and emotional issues really just shines the light on the fact that you KNOW what you are doing is immoral.

Truth stings a wee bit, doesn't it?


----------



## hehasmyheart

I've been married for 17 years, and have been having an online/phone emotional affair for 3 years.

My marriage should have been over long ago. Some of the same issues you've mentioned, but also that he spends every dime and also has tens of thousands of credit debt on top of that. I make half the money, but he controls all of it.

My husband could never keep up with my sex drive, once a month was fine with him. I've lost 60 pounds since I've been having the EA, mostly because now I can only talk to him from work since my husband has everything being spyed on, so I go without eating and use my lunchtime. (I work alone at night, so I have privacy here).

After 6 months of my EA, I told him about it. THEN, he decided (or so he said) that he would change. Nobody changes the core of who they are. He's selfish...end of story.

How are people so shocked when someone has an affair? Just like anything else, it takes work to keep it good. Otherwise, it's not a "union" anyway, it's one person thinking of themselves while the other person goes along for the ride.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

hehasmyheart said:


> I've been married for 17 years, and have been having an online/phone emotional affair for 3 years.
> 
> My marriage should have been over long ago. Some of the same issues you've mentioned, but also that he spends every dime and also has tens of thousands of credit debt on top of that. I make half the money, but he controls all of it.
> 
> My husband could never keep up with my sex drive, once a month was fine with him. I've lost 60 pounds since I've been having the EA, mostly because now I can only talk to him from work since my husband has everything being spyed on, so I go without eating and use my lunchtime. (I work alone at night, so I have privacy here).
> 
> After 6 months of my EA, I told him about it. THEN, he decided (or so he said) that he would change. Nobody changes the core of who they are. He's selfish...end of story.
> 
> How are people so shocked when someone has an affair? Just like anything else, it takes work to keep it good. Otherwise, it's not a "union" anyway, it's one person thinking of themselves while the other person goes along for the ride.


Then why don't you be a real woman and divorce, not justify an affair? If you can support yourself, why not leave? Or do you just enjoy the sneaking around? 

You're the one in the affair, and you call HIM selfish? Please.


----------



## MEM2020

I don't care what anyone else says. Taking the post below at face value, I don't blame the OP at all. You cannot emotionally abuse your partner the way her H did and then claim surprise that your spouse got their desperate need for physical love met elsewhere. 

You can blame them. Call them names for not divorcing you first. Claim that they should have ignored the impact of a divorce on a special needs kid. 

But you cannot claim surprise. It simply isn't honest to do so. 

This isn't the case of a silently suffering spouse - who didn't tell her partner what she needed. Quite the opposite. 

As for any claims that he deserved the truth - WHAT truth. That she felt rejected and miserable. He knew that. That she was reaching the breaking point? He knew that also. That she might put the child first and stay in the non-sexual part of the marriage. 

In these cases - I am not able to muster more sympathy for the BS than the WS. 



Empty Inside said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I have been reading every single comment and will respond to a lot of what has been addressed later this evening when I have more time. I knew when I posted this thread that I would not be on the receiving end of your sympathy or approval. That is not what I came here looking for. I am genuinely trying to do my part of sorting out this painful situation. There is so much more to my story than I could share in just a few short posts. The one thing that I want to make clear is that I have been being honest with my husband.... about everything, including my feelings for the OM. I am not holding back facts or feelings, but I was concerned with just how graphic the details needed to be. I am not trying to make myself the victim. I was sharing my story and telling you all how I came to be in a situation that I never thought that I would be in. I was a faithful wife for 27 years. I did talk to my husband.... again and again. He wasn't listening. It is very easy to say that the finances aren't important, the kids aren't important, our handicapped son isn't important; that I should have just gotten a divorce. But, you know, the finances are important, the children are important and our special needs son is important. I know that the natural response to that is that I should have thought about that before I had an affair. I did and I do think about that. Again, there is more, but our situation made a divorce nearly impossible. Someone suggested that, perhaps, my spouse knew of my affair and was simply looking the other way. My therapist insisted that he must know. I said I didn't think so. I know, now, that he wasn't just looking the other way.... he wasn't looking at me at all. That has been a part of our problem for many years. Someone here said that I should have put all of the energy that I put into my affair into my marriage. I did.... for 27 years. I WAS watering my husband's garden, but by his own admission, he had built a water-proof dam and he wouldn't let me in. I don't think that it is realistic to believe that someone can be virtually "alone" in a marriage. This has never been just about sex. My husband was emotionally distant. When I tried to get closer physically (which should be a normal healthy part of marriage) he became even more distant. My parents are, now, deceased, the kids are grown (but a couple are still at home attending school) and I had no partner, no lover, no friend.... nothing. The loneliness was so consuming. He didn't talk to me, look at me, spend time with me. We had no common interests.... he went from being a bit of an introvert, with a sense of humor, to being completely withdrawn, distant, silent, cold and when pushed for more of a relationship he became passive-aggressive and began to try to make me feel ashamed for expressing my needs. Actually, he tried to make me feel ashamed for having needs. I have mentioned that he is a good provider and some of you have suggested that that is why I stay with him. Well, he is a good provider, but due to the size of our family, a large mortgage, medical bills, insurance, etc.... we are very, very tight financially.... more than I am comfortable admitting. I say this because I want it to be clear that I am not staying because I would lose financially if we divorced. Our family, as a whole, would suffer a greater financial hardship if we did, so that has left me conflicted.
> 
> I am a very emotional person. I was so lonely and isolated that it is difficult to find the words to describe my pain. I craved being touched, held, looked at (not through.) One day in March last year, I begged my husband to make love to me, I was crying.... hoping that he would hold me and make me feel like a woman who was cherished, desired and loved. He said, "Why would I want to have sex with you.... look at you, you're crying," but there was always some excuse. I said, "forget it, I'll never ask again," then he dropped his clothes, sat on the side of the bed and said "C'mon." I no longer wanted him to touch me, but he insisted. I said "no," but still he insisted. I didn't want him to feel the same sting of rejection that I knew all too well. We had sex, it was not good, I have told him this. After that, I was finished. I told him that as well. I told him that when I could get a job, when our youngest graduated, when I could get our financial house in order that I was leaving. But, I said that, under the circumstances, it would take a couple of years. I told him that I would not pass up an opportunity for love if it came my way. NOTHING CHANGED.... he just became more distant. I decided to water my own garden and I did.
> 
> In an interesting twist this morning, my husband Googled "How to deal with my wife's affair." He went to a link about "details." He ended up on THIS thread. He read it, knew it was us and I found him in tears. We talked..... we're still talking, we may even be reconnecting. I truly hope so. Yes, only I chose to have an affair, but he played a very large part in the breakdown of our marriage. For some reason, his dam has broken and every emotion that he ever suppressed in flooding in now. He said that he began to "feel" a few weeks before he discovered my affair. I think that is why he began "noticing" me and that things weren't as they should be.
> 
> Thanks for all of your feedback.... whether it is what I want to hear or not. I really want to get through this and I want the best possible outcome for everyone. I want the hurting to stop and the healing to begin for all of us. <3


----------



## spudster

MEM11363 said:


> I don't care what anyone else says. Taking the post below at face value, I don't blame the OP at all. You cannot emotionally abuse your partner the way her H did and then claim surprise that your spouse got their desperate need for physical love met elsewhere.
> 
> You can blame them. Call them names for not divorcing you first. Claim that they should have ignored the impact of a divorce on a special needs kid.
> 
> But you cannot claim surprise. It simply isn't honest to do so.
> 
> This isn't the case of a silently suffering spouse - who didn't tell her partner what she needed. Quite the opposite.
> 
> As for any claims that he deserved the truth - WHAT truth. That she felt rejected and miserable. He knew that. That she was reaching the breaking point? He knew that also. That she might put the child first and stay in the non-sexual part of the marriage.
> 
> In these cases - I am not able to muster more sympathy for the BS than the WS.


Still, it's no excuse.


----------



## arbitrator

Complexity said:


> I hope this forum will be of help emptyinside, just a word of warning though, expect alot of harsh responses as this section is for the betrayed and your post can illicit very painful memories.
> 
> Regarding your question, do not tickle truth, as painful as it will be, he's demanding answers and you should provide them. I can certainly sympathise that your husband was negligent of your pleas for intimacy and his coldness certainly played a part in pushing you to the affair. However and I echo EleGirl's post here, your AP is not your knight in shinning armour, he's a man with questionable morals and indeed if you do decide to leave your husband for him, I'm sure you wouldn't be content with a relationship built on deceit and adultery. It will not survive. They cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.
> 
> If a man in 16 months can wipe out 28 years then by all means divorce your husband and abate his torture. However if you're repentant and willing to redeem yourself and lose the cheater label, cut all contact with the other man and give your husband a chance.


If you truly believe in your heart that your relationship with your husband can be salvaged, then it's richly up to you to make the effort in doing so. An awful lot of water has already run underneath the bridge of your marriage.

Although your husband may well have provided the impetus in your straying from the marriage, you were the one who, in essence, crossed the border over into "Cheaterland." You held it in secrecy from him for such a long time. So you are not only guilty of both the adulterous EA and PA acts, but also of covert deception toward your husband.

If your husband demands the lurid details of what went on between you and the OM and when it occurred, then for as long as you honestly want to salvage this relationship, you have the duty to tell him in excruciatingly accurate detail those accounts, no matter how hurtful either of you perceive them to be. It may reach a point that either he will have had enough and will summarily vacate the process, or the pain from relating it to him may be far more than you can bear and cause you to flee the situation for good. In any case, I would highly recommend that this be done in the presence of a third party marriage counselor who can offer themselves in an intermediary role in relating this potential trauma.

It's greatly like a raw military recruit at "boot camp." He is brought in, summarily broken down, and then brought back to life in a reassuring way.

It's a huge price to have to pay for the both of you, but it needs both of your consents to actually work. The true question is, "are the long range ramifications and results worth the concerted efforts on both of your parts to save what you once had, and might hopefully have again in the future?"

Only the two of you can answer that! I truly wish you well!


----------



## EI

Hey Guys, I haven't posted on this thread since June 14th. I only posted on it for 3 days. Since that time, Hubby & I have been "sharing" his thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48667-wifes-affair-how-move-forward.html

There have been a lot of wonderful updates since that time. So, rather than to comment, here, if you want an update then please go there and follow our story. I think you'll find the answers to any of your questions and concerns. Thanks for taking the time to comment.


----------



## Jonathanedgar

EI said:


> Yes, Aug, 16 months is a long time and the affair didn't stop because I wanted it to, it stopped because I got caught. I don't know if I can give him up. I may not have a choice. My AP has never been comfortable with the fact that I am married and has, at times, begged me to stay away from him until I make a decision about my marriage. I'm in love with my AP. Because I was convinced that my husband could not possibly be in love with me, I was able to convince my AP that that was the case, also. But, when my husband called the "unknown" cell number and a man answered, my husband simply said "wrong number" and hung up and then asked me who he was. My AP knew that the caller must have been my husband since it was a man calling from my home number. Now, my AP is convinced that my husband cares more than I have let on and he is consumed with guilt. He will not see me, again, unless the ink is dry on my divorce papers and I am no longer living in the same home as my husband. Then, he still makes no promises because he doesn't like the way our relationship began. He has a very difficult time resisting me when we see one another in person so he has asked me to stay away, for now, and I know that I have to do so until I make a decision (or one is made for me.)
> 
> The truth is, even if I am never with my AP again, I don't feel the type of desire for my husband that I used to.... that I need to be able to have a real marriage. I was so in love with my husband, I really was. I put him on a pedestal so high that his lack of desire for me left me feeling terribly deficient. Although he is a very good man, he often tried to make me feel ashamed for expressing my needs. He would say things like, "It's only sex, is it really that important?" His response to my saying that I was starving was that 'he wasn't hungry.' He mastered the art of touch-less lovemaking. We could go for months at a time without any sexual contact and then, when we did have sex, it was just 5 minutes, in the missionary position, on/off.... the end. No kissing, no touching, no foreplay. I never had orgasms with him and he even tried to imply that I was somehow "broken." I knew that I wasn't and I offered to show him how to please me and that seemed to horrify him. He has always been very sexually inhibited. We starting dating in high school and, even then, I had a higher sex drive. We now know that he had low testosterone levels and he is, now, taking T injections. A part of me thinks that since he is all full of Testosterone that he wants to "use" me to satisfy his (new found) needs. I find it ironic since he used to become angry when I would try to talk to him about mine. In the last month or so he had started trying to touch me again. We haven't been intimate in over a year. I told him last year that I was never going to "ask" for sex from him again. I have had enough rejection from him to last a lifetime. He didn't seem to be bothered by it. I moved out of our bedroom. We had become roommates, co-parents, sharing a household.... nothing more. So, with no improvement in the state of our marriage, after 28 years, he wants to act like a sex-crazed teenager. It is difficult for me to understand. He actually started acting this way a few weeks before he learned of my affair. I think that his "new attitude" is what caused his antennae to finally start detecting that things were amiss in our relationship. I'm not sure what he has been thinking for the last year.
> 
> I can maintain no contact with my AP (for now).... but that does not change what I know in my mind and what I feel in my heart. Everything I see, do, hear, feel.... everything is a trigger to a memory with my AP. He may not even resume a relationship with me later, but I don't think that I will ever recover my desire for my husband. But, I don't want to hurt him, either. He insists that he loves me and wants to work on us. I never imagined that this is the direction my life would take. Our children are young adults and I can not bear the thought of turning their world upside down with a divorce. A divorce would shatter us financially. There are so many details to our story.... details that would explain why ending this marriage seems to be almost impossible. But, our situation is so specific, I fear that if I gave any more information that someone I know would read this story and know it is about me. I wish that I could forget about my AP, be madly in love with my husband and that my family could live happily ever after, but that's a fairy tale and we all know that fairy tales are not real.


Love??? jajajajjaja.. lust more like it... How can you truly love someone you have never lived with.. Boy things are just going south these days with all this love the guys that only serves himself what he needs and doesn't have any other commitment nor responsability to me when he goes home attitude. You should be ashamed of yourself. You made a commitment to him and your family. Now you owe it to him to explain, answer his questions and repent and hope the man that has provided to you and your kids for the past 27 years forgives you. God if people weren't so darn selfish things would be different in this world. Good luck!!!! FYI, I would much rather think of my partners needs and DIE knowing that I did my best and gave it my best shot and that my needs were never met then going off and betraying her trust because I wanted to get involved with some person that is willing to give up 27 years for some lust and passion.


----------



## TBT

Jonathanedgar,this is an old thread.EI has owned her crap and her and her husband,B1 are a long time down the reconciliation path.The following thread will explain their journey.The thread itself is a positive place where so many others attempting the same path share openly about their struggles and triumphs along the way.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html


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## bfree

Wow, I remember this thread. EI this just shows how truly far you and B1 have come. I'm almost in awe.....almost.


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## EI

TBT & bfree, thank you, very much.


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## MattMatt

Jonathanedgar said:


> Love??? jajajajjaja.. lust more like it... How can you truly love someone you have never lived with.. Boy things are just going south these days with all this love the guys that only serves himself what he needs and doesn't have any other commitment nor responsability to me when he goes home attitude. You should be ashamed of yourself. You made a commitment to him and your family. Now you owe it to him to explain, answer his questions and repent and hope the man that has provided to you and your kids for the past 27 years forgives you. God if people weren't so darn selfish things would be different in this world. Good luck!!!! FYI, I would much rather think of my partners needs and DIE knowing that I did my best and gave it my best shot and that my needs were never met then going off and betraying her trust because I wanted to get involved with some person that is willing to give up 27 years for some lust and passion.


She did. Next time, check the dates and other comments in a long thread. OK?


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## jim123

Hey,not so fast here, I would like to point out that EI was wrong in her post.

Fairy tales are real!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

bfree said:


> Wow, I remember this thread. EI this just shows how truly far you and B1 have come. I'm almost in awe.....almost.


Ha Bfree! I was thinking the same thing as you.

You are right on the money...

How awesome to read an old thread that has a happy,,, I won't say ending because their story is far from over....

HM


----------



## bfree

You know reading this thread has brought back a lot of memories. I'm sure they probably aren't exactly pleasant ones for EI and B1. But it occurs to me that as great as EI has been and as well as she has handled herself....B1 kicked AZZ!!!

I'd love to find his first thread because as much pain as he was in and as confused and hurt as he was I honestly don't think I've seen any man deal with this difficult situation quite as well as he did. And he's still handling it like a champ. Just amazing.


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## happyman64

You guys would probably not be "liking" my comment if you saw the happy ending joke I made.

I erased it in good taste..


----------



## EI

Thank you, guys. I'm a bit overwhelmed. These comments are such a far cry from the comments I received on this thread 15 months ago. When I logged on today and saw that it had been resurrected, I actually felt sick. I had a feeling that it wasn't going to be anything positive. To be honest, on more than one occasion, I've thought about deleting it. Re-reading it is such a surreal experience for me. I know I wrote it, but I don't even feel like I know that person, anymore. B1 and I are in such a different place, now. A much, much better place! But, you guys already know that. Maybe I will delete it someday, but for now I think I'll leave it right here. If nothing else, it's proof that with true remorse, honesty, communication, compassion, humility, patience, and a willingness to forgive and to be forgiven that miracles can happen and that maybe, just maybe, fairytales do exist. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot, one more thing....... sex, lots and lots of good sex. And, the best part is that I don't even have to ask for it, anymore. I just love the way that B1 looks at me through his new Testosterone colored glasses!  Well, this started off kind of sentimental and sappy..... What a difference 451 days makes! 

Thank you ALL for being a part of our journey. I truly do not believe that we would have come this far without you.


----------



## EI

bfree said:


> You know reading this thread has brought back a lot of memories. I'm sure they probably aren't exactly pleasant ones for EI and B1. But it occurs to me that as great as EI has been and as well as she has handled herself....B1 kicked AZZ!!!
> 
> I'd love to find his first thread because as much pain as he was in and as confused and hurt as he was I honestly don't think I've seen any man deal with this difficult situation quite as well as he did. And he's still handling it like a champ. Just amazing.


B1 is, without a doubt, the strongest, most amazing, most loving, most forgiving, most incredible man that I have ever known. I wish that you all could truly know him the way I do. Our reconciliation isn't about either one of us saying "the right words." The damage to our marriage was too great to be repaired with words alone. In his weakness, he found his strength. He loved me the most when I was the least worthy of his love. He picked me up and breathed new life into our relationship. He didn't do it the TC (Tam correct) way. He did it his way. I could go on and on...... but I already have. 

Do you guys remember that I had held a grudge because we spent our 25th anniversary at the Bass Pro Shop in Gatlinburg, TN, instead of zip lining like I had planned?  Well, last week he surprised me. He took a few days off and made reservations for us to zip line. It was on my bucket list. So, last Friday we did it. It was awesome..... Next up..... Sky diving! :smthumbup:


----------



## the guy

This ain't the same place it was 3 yrs ago!


----------



## tdwal

EI said:


> B1 is, without a doubt, the strongest, most amazing, most loving, most forgiving, most incredible man that I have ever known. I wish that you all could truly know him the way I do. Our reconciliation isn't about either one of us saying "the right words." The damage to our marriage was too great to be repaired with words alone. In his weakness, he found his strength. He loved me the most when I was the least worthy of his love. He picked me up and breathed new life into our relationship. He didn't do it the TC (Tam correct) way. He did it his way. I could go on and on...... but I already have.
> 
> Do you guys remember that I had held a grudge because we spent our 25th anniversary at the Bass Pro Shop in Gatlinburg, TN, instead of zip lining like I had planned?  Well, last week he surprised me. He took a few days off and made reservations for us to zip line. It was on my bucket list. So, last Friday we did it. It was awesome..... Next up..... Sky diving! :smthumbup:


OMG sky diving?


----------



## happyman64

If you want a real thrill go skydiving at night...

But you are not the same person that you were when you first came here.

So don't delete the original thread.

Leave it as a testament to coming clean, being honest with yourself as well as your partner and a lot of hard [email protected] work.

You both should be very proud of yourselves.

Now another 28 years to go!


----------



## EI

happyman64 said:


> If you want a real thrill go skydiving at night...
> 
> But you are not the same person that you were when you first came here.
> 
> So don't delete the original thread.
> 
> Leave it as a testament to coming clean, being honest with yourself as well as your partner and a lot of hard [email protected] work.
> 
> You both should be very proud of yourselves.
> 
> Now another 28 years to go!


It was 29 years on June 23rd. Next year on the weekend of our 30th anniversary, B1 and I are going to renew our wedding vows. On Valentine's Day, this year, (actually, the day before because he couldn't wait)  B1 got down on one knee and proposed to me, complete with a brand new wedding ring. It's called a Past, Present and Future ring. Our daughter, our son-in-law, our grandson, and our sons and their girlfriends will be the only ones attending. We want it to be very private, intimate and special. I didn't "need" the new ring. B1 would be the first one to tell you that I am not, nor have I ever been high maintenance when it comes to "things." "Things" have never been of that much importance to me. People, relationships, time..... that's what I value. The new ring was important to him..... So, that makes it special to me. The proposal was priceless. We got married very young. He was still 19 and I had just turned 20. There was never really a proper proposal.... until now! 

Skydiving at night??? That sounds very exciting. I'll add that to the list. Now, I just have to find a bull named Fu Manchu!


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## EI

tdwal said:


> Go all out and do a Halo jump, that will get the adrenalin going.
> 
> halojumper dot com


Yeah, I looked that up. I might have to work my way up to THAT one. I'm fearless, but I'm not completely insane..... Yet!


----------



## TBT

Looking back at my first post on here,I'm glad you never heeded my advice.You did good EI!! I'm so happy to see where you both are now.


----------



## EI

bfree said:


> You know reading this thread has brought back a lot of memories. I'm sure they probably aren't exactly pleasant ones for EI and B1. But it occurs to me that as great as EI has been and as well as she has handled herself....B1 kicked AZZ!!!
> 
> *I'd love to find his first thread because as much pain as he was in and as confused and hurt as he was I honestly don't think I've seen any man deal with this difficult situation quite as well as he did. And he's still handling it like a champ. Just amazing.*


It's hard to read. But, here's the link.... Just please don't anyone comment on that thread. I really don't want to resurrect it and cause any painful triggers for B1. I hate reading posts from the first month or two, but like this thread, if nothing else, it serves as an example of hope..... I hope! 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48667-wifes-affair-how-move-forward.html#post824189


----------



## EI

TBT said:


> Looking back at my first post on here,I'm glad you never heeded my advice.You did good EI!! I'm so happy to see where you both are now.


Thank you, TBT. I read that post earlier today. You were actually much kinder than most.  But, given the circumstances, at the time, I understand the harsh tone of many, if not most, of those responses, now. I do think there are some TAMers who are unnecessarily cruel and condescending. There were many comments and accusations that bore no semblance of truth. I was in such a defeated state that I didn't even have it in me to challenge them, at the time. The fact that B1 often came to my rescue was just one of the many reasons that falling in love with him, all over again, was such an easy thing to do.


----------



## Mr Blunt

EI

If it will help you and B1 then delete the threads. However, I have read these threads and *I think they are some of the best on TAM to offer help and hope.*

You and B1 were so honest that I sometimes squinted my eyes when reading some of your comments. That blunt truth coupled with the resurrection of your relationship and marriage is OUTSTANDING!!! You gave us THE GOOD, THE BAD, and THE UGLY and then you give such hope as you and B1 are a HUGE positive to this TAM place. We here at TAM can use all the positive we can get because the negative is not in short supply

I will say one more thing. EI you are a gifted writer! I do not know how you were able to articulate so well in those first few months. When I was in the first few months of R I forgot the alphabet all I did was moan and scribble!


----------



## oregonmom

I was one of those people that came down hard on you EI and I have felt bad for it ever since. I have wanted to apologize, but also didn't want to bring up any bad memories for you so I have held back. I suppose this is my opportunity 

You are a good woman and I am so happy to see you and B1 doing well. You offer great advice and support to so many and I'm glad you have stuck around to do so. All the best to the both of you!! You are great inspirations :smthumbup:


----------



## EI

Originally posted 9/5/2013



EI said:


> B1 is, without a doubt, the strongest, most amazing, most loving, most forgiving, most incredible man that I have ever known. I wish that you all could truly know him the way I do. Our reconciliation isn't about either one of us saying "the right words." The damage to our marriage was too great to be repaired with words alone. In his weakness, he found his strength. He loved me the most when I was the least worthy of his love. He picked me up and breathed new life into our relationship. He didn't do it the TC (Tam correct) way. He did it his way. I could go on and on...... but I already have.
> 
> Do you guys remember that I had held a grudge because we spent our 25th anniversary at the Bass Pro Shop in Gatlinburg, TN, instead of zip lining like I had planned?  Well, last week he surprised me. He took a few days off and made reservations for us to zip line. It was on my bucket list. So, last Friday we did it. It was awesome..... *Next up..... Sky diving! *:smthumbup:



At the request of bfree, wazza, and a few others, I asked Deejo to reinstate my original thread.


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## ConanHub

So COOL!!:smthumbup:


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I only read the first page, and congrats on how far the two of you have gone. I am glad the both of you fixed the underlying issues. People sometimes need to look at the cause of the problems, before dealing with the outcome. As long as the cause is address, the chances of the outcome occurring again is slim to none. Wish you the best.


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## GusPolinski

Just realized that EI started this thread on 6/12/12, which was D-Day #1 for me.


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## RWB

EI said:


> ... What a difference 451 days makes!


Agree, 2012 days of difference for me.


----------



## sidney2718

EI: Thank you for having this thread reinstated. I read only a little bit of it when I first joined.

It has been said before, you are a brave and strong woman and your husband is remarkable. 

And as has also been said, you are a gifted writer. I have no doubt that you could turn your story into a best seller and all you'd have to do is change some names and dates.

I wish you and your family the best of everything.


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## bfree

Wow, looking back it's even more amazing where you both are considering where you both were. I am in even more awe than I was before. Much respect.

And just let me say this. EI, you were a feisty one weren't you? lol


----------



## EI

GusPolinski said:


> Just realized that EI started this thread on 6/12/12, which was D-Day #1 for me.


----------



## Maricha75

Smiling again said:


> then why would you resurrect this thread 3 years later?


She said why she resurrected it... :scratchhead:



EI said:


> At the request of bfree, wazza, and a few others, I asked Deejo to reinstate my original thread.


----------



## jim123

wish that I could forget about my AP, be madly in love with my husband and that my family could live happily ever after, but that's a fairy tale and we all know that fairy tales are not real. 

I love this line. Yep they are real. What a story.


----------



## KingwoodKev

I know this thread was started over two years ago but how did you go from "I'm not in love with him anymore" to where you are today? Did you magically fall back in love with him or was he plan B?


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## EI

Smiling again said:


> then why would you resurrect this thread 3 years later?



I, actually, just deleted this thread last year. Since then, several long-time TAMers have referred certain newbies, who were seeking reconciliation, to the thread, only to find that the old links were no longer active.

My original post in this thread was just 2 1/2 weeks after D-Day. My marriage to B1 was in a complete state of gutted chaos. We were two extremely hurt and broken individuals. Beginning with this thread, then merging into B1's original thread, and finally into B1's _Reconciliation_ thread, is the story, told in real time, of the first two years of our reconciliation. 

We never sugar coated, or glossed over the tremendous amount of time, patience, humility, love, and commitment, that was required, on both of our parts, to make this R happen. We had good days and we had bad days. We each had times when we thought we just couldn't hang on another day. B1 battled mind movies, triggers, and his overwhelming desire to know every single detail. After working through my initial feelings of defensiveness and anger, I battled feelings of worthlessness, self-loathing, emotional fatigue, and the inability to forgive myself. What seemed to carry us through those darkest days, was that we both felt an incredible amount of compassion and mercy towards one another. That, along with the amazing group of TAMers, who were mostly on the R thread, who lifted us up and carried us through, when we didn't have the strength to carry ourselves, proved to be a blessing beyond measure for B1 and me. 

I didn't resurrect this thread for B1 or myself, (we know the story ) I did it because I have been asked, on more than one occasion, by several TAMers, who were instrumental in our reconciliation. I think it's the least I can do.


----------



## bfree

Thank you for resurrecting this thread. You and B1 posted detailed and honestly about what you were feeling and the events of your ongoing reconciliation. Reading this thread along with B1's original thread and the epic reconciliation thread demonstrates in real time how both a WS and a BS think. It's an amazing journey and a wonderful glimpse at two broken people simultaneously lifting themselves and each other up and putting back together the pieces of a shattered marriage. What an incredible adventure and it's not over yet. Reminds me of "grow old with me, the best is yet to be." .


----------



## bfree

Btw, I especially love reading the responses of some of the greatest and most veteran TAM'ers. Bandit really laid into you from the getgo but I think he was secretly cheering you on from the start.


----------



## EI

KingwoodKev said:


> I know this thread was started over two years ago but how did you go from "I'm not in love with him anymore" to where you are today? Did you magically fall back in love with him or was he plan B?



A few weeks after D-Day, B1 asked me, "Was I just going to be your plan B, your fall back plan if things didn't work out with the OM?" And, I honestly answered, "By the time I turned to the OM, you were no longer a part of my plan, at all." You see, B1 was the only plan A that I'd ever had in my entire life. He was my husband and I was madly and passionately in love with him. But, I never truly felt like he loved me back with quite the same intensity. I always told myself that "one day" our time would come. But, as the years went by, he grew more, and more, withdrawn, and more, and more, distant. At first only from me, but eventually even from our children. I fought valiantly for our marriage. In fact, I waged an all out war. But, the more determined I became to "save our marriage," the more distant, hostile, and eventually cruel he became. 

Eventually, my love gave way to bitterness, then resentment, then anger, and finally detachment. One day, I realized that there was absolutely not one single thing on Earth that I could possibly do to ever make him love me back, and I was done. I felt no more bitterness, no more resentment, no more heartache over the years of unmet expectations, no more anger, just nothing. I was completely _Empty Inside_ (EI.) I told him in no uncertain terms that I was finished, but that it would take another couple of years before we could divorce because of our children and our financial situation. I also told him that I would not wait for love if an opportunity came my way. We even sat the kids down and told them that we would be divorcing in another couple of years, when our youngest son graduated from high school, among other things. 

After that, B1 went on about his life as if it was any other day. A short time later, with no love remaining in my heart for him, I began having an affair. And though, I was completely convinced, at the time, that I had quickly fallen in love with the OM, when I look back, now, I believe that my affair was like tiny little drops of water for someone who was literally dying of thirst. Of course I fell in love with the way the A made me feel. But, I always knew that with the OM, that I would be settling. Anyone other than B1 would have been a plan B, or settling for me, but I didn't think I would ever be loved by B1 the way a woman needs to be loved. So, settling was the most I could ever hope for. And, I did develop genuine feelings for the OM. I could not have had an LTA, had I not. 

I didn't have an affair, and then fall out of love with my husband. I fell out of love with my husband, and then I had an affair. You asked if I just _magically_ fell in love with my husband, again? No, I did not. I didn't think that I could ever fall in love with him, again. And, after D-Day, all of the resentment, bitterness, and anger, that I thought I had moved beyond, came rushing back to the surface. B1 was hurting and angry, and I was defensive, defiant, and angry. But, we had to function, we had to survive, and we had to co-exist, in our home, together, for the forseeable future. We HAD to find a way, and we HAD to help one another. So, we both started digging deep, communicating, comforting one another, holding one another, helping one another through the disaster that we had both created. During this time, a B1 began to emerge that I had never seen before. A stronger, more confident, more emotional, more loving, more sexual, more determined, and more motivated B1 than I had ever known existed. I remember saying to him one day, "You're gonna make someone a great husband, someday." Then, I got pissed, and said "Like Hell you are, you're gonna make me a great husband." And, so it began!


----------



## EI

bfree said:


> Wow, looking back it's even more amazing where you both are considering where you both were. I am in even more awe than I was before. Much respect.
> 
> And just let me say this. EI, you were a feisty one weren't you? lol


_'Were feisty?'_ 

I've never been accused of _not_ being feisty, bfree! I can't imagine that's ever gonna happen!


----------



## GusPolinski

To anyone that's paid attention to the ongoing, collective dialogue that B1 and EI have contributed to TAM over the course of the past 2 1/2+ years, it's pretty clear that EI's xOM was never any better than a Plan B to her. B1 had been her Plan A (in fact, her _only_ "Plan") for over 3 decades and, once they committed themselves to the reconciliation of their marriage, he became more than that... her Plan A++. "Brave New World" indeed.

As I mentioned earlier, EI started this thread on what was my D-Day #1. To be more specific, the latter portion of page 4 -- in addition to the entirety of pages 5 and 6 -- unfolded just as I was dealt a series of blows that very nearly broke me.

And, somehow, it makes me feel better to know that, as I began to struggle w/ the most intensely searing pain that I've ever experienced in my life, these two fine folks were beginning to find one another -- and their love for each other -- all over again.

B1/EI... cheers to you both.


----------



## KingwoodKev

EI said:


> A few weeks after D-Day, B1 asked me, "Was I just going to be your plan B, your fall back plan if things didn't work out with the OM?" And, I honestly answered, "By the time I turned to the OM, you were no longer a part of my plan, at all." You see, B1 was the only plan A that I'd ever had in my entire life. He was my husband and I was madly and passionately in love with him. But, I never truly felt like he loved me back with quite the same intensity. I always told myself that "one day" our time would come. But, as the years went by, he grew more, and more, withdrawn, and more, and more, distant. At first only from me, but eventually even from our children. I fought valiantly for our marriage. In fact, I waged an all out war. But, the more determined I became to "save our marriage," the more distant, hostile, and eventually cruel he became.
> 
> Eventually, my love gave way to bitterness, then resentment, then anger, and finally detachment. One day, I realized that there was absolutely not one single thing on Earth that I could possibly do to ever make him love me back, and I was done. I felt no more bitterness, no more resentment, no more heartache over the years of unmet expectations, no more anger, just nothing. I was completely _Empty Inside_ (EI.) I told him in no uncertain terms that I was finished, but that it would take another couple of years before we could divorce because of our children and our financial situation. I also told him that I would not wait for love if an opportunity came my way. We even sat the kids down and told them that we would be divorcing in another couple of years, when our youngest son graduated from high school, among other things.
> 
> After that, B1 went on about his life as if it was any other day. A short time later, with no love remaining in my heart for him, I began having an affair. And though, I was completely convinced, at the time, that I had quickly fallen in love with the OM, when I look back, now, I believe that my affair was like tiny little drops of water for someone who was literally dying of thirst. Of course I fell in love with the way the A made me feel. But, I always knew that with the OM, that I would be settling. Anyone other than B1 would have been a plan B, or settling for me, but I didn't think I would ever be loved by B1 the way a woman needs to be loved. So, settling was the most I could ever hope for. And, I did develop genuine feelings for the OM. I could not have had an LTA, had I not.
> 
> I didn't have an affair, and then fall out of love with my husband. I fell out of love with my husband, and then I had an affair. You asked if I just _magically_ fell in love with my husband, again? No, I did not. I didn't think that I could ever fall in love with him, again. And, after D-Day, all of the resentment, bitterness, and anger, that I thought I had moved beyond, came rushing back to the surface. B1 was hurting and angry, and I was defensive, defiant, and angry. But, we had to function, we had to survive, and we had to co-exist, in our home, together, for the forseeable future. We HAD to find a way, and we HAD to help one another. So, we both started digging deep, communicating, comforting one another, holding one another, helping one another through the disaster that we had both created. During this time, a B1 began to emerge that I had never seen before. A stronger, more confident, more emotional, more loving, more sexual, more determined, and more motivated B1 than I had ever known existed. I remember saying to him one day, "You're gonna make someone a great husband, someday." Then, I got pissed, and said "Like Hell you are, you're gonna make me a great husband." And, so it began!


Awesome summary. Thank you.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I think that the posters who originally attacked you, did not take your pain and neglect into consideration. In order for people to deal with situations on an easier basis, they simplify everything to black and white. To certain posters, you were a remorseless cheater, and B1, the victim. Granted every case is different. Every situation needs to be analyze and carefully dissected. In some cases, it is the bs who commits the more egregious acts. In other cases, the WS could just be highly narcissistic. People who can only identify with a certain prospective, will not take the other side into consideration. It is the us versus them mentality.


----------



## sammy3

bfree said:


> Thank you for resurrecting this thread. You and B1 posted detailed and honestly about what you were feeling and the events of your ongoing reconciliation. Reading this thread along with B1's original thread and the epic reconciliation thread demonstrates in real time how both a WS and a BS think. It's an amazing journey and a wonderful glimpse at two broken people simultaneously lifting themselves and each other up and putting back together the pieces of a shattered marriage. What an incredible adventure and it's not over yet. Reminds me of "grow old with me, the best is yet to be." .[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> I read the first post and only now see what brought you both to where it all started. You had such problems within the marriage you only had one way to go... it couldn't get worst, it had only one way to go...it could only get better, even as you say, even if it were ending...
> 
> This is where I am a firm believer that infidelity can help repair a troubled marriage, make it even better, but impossible to repair a good marriage, to make it even better...
> 
> I've yet to come across a successful R story from a happy long term marriage that suffered from infidelity late into the marriage...
> 
> ~sammy


----------



## sidney2718

bfree said:


> Wow, looking back it's even more amazing where you both are considering where you both were. I am in even more awe than I was before. Much respect.
> 
> And just let me say this. EI, you were a feisty one weren't you? lol


I think she still is feisty...


----------



## sidney2718

EI said:


> I didn't have an affair, and then fall out of love with my husband. I fell out of love with my husband, and then I had an affair. You asked if I just _magically_ fell in love with my husband, again? No, I did not. I didn't think that I could ever fall in love with him, again. And, after D-Day, all of the resentment, bitterness, and anger, that I thought I had moved beyond, came rushing back to the surface. B1 was hurting and angry, and I was defensive, defiant, and angry. But, we had to function, we had to survive, and we had to co-exist, in our home, together, for the forseeable future. We HAD to find a way, and we HAD to help one another. So, we both started digging deep, communicating, comforting one another, holding one another, helping one another through the disaster that we had both created. During this time, a B1 began to emerge that I had never seen before. A stronger, more confident, more emotional, more loving, more sexual, more determined, and more motivated B1 than I had ever known existed. I remember saying to him one day, "You're gonna make someone a great husband, someday." Then, I got pissed, and said "Like Hell you are, you're gonna make me a great husband." And, so it began!


People here often ask how affairs start and how reconciliation can ever work. This excerpt from EI lays it all out as it happened for her.

And keeping it in mind should warn us all about jumping to conclusions when a new poster comes here.

Thanks EI.


----------



## sidney2718

GusPolinski said:


> To anyone that's paid attention to the ongoing, collective dialogue that B1 and EI have contributed to TAM over the course of the past 2 1/2+ years, it's pretty clear that EI's xOM was never any better than a Plan B to her. B1 had been her Plan A (in fact, her _only_ "Plan") for over 3 decades and, once they committed themselves to the reconciliation of their marriage, he became more than that... her Plan A++. "Brave New World" indeed.


I more than agree. I applaud, I cheer, I shout to the heavens. We need to stop with the Plan A Plan B nonsense. We need to stop with the Alpha males and the Beta males. We need to stop with the "once a cheater always a cheater". We need to use our brains and our hearts and treat each case as unique involving unique people.

Thank you Gus.


----------



## sidney2718

sammy3 said:


> bfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for resurrecting this thread. You and B1 posted detailed and honestly about what you were feeling and the events of your ongoing reconciliation. Reading this thread along with B1's original thread and the epic reconciliation thread demonstrates in real time how both a WS and a BS think. It's an amazing journey and a wonderful glimpse at two broken people simultaneously lifting themselves and each other up and putting back together the pieces of a shattered marriage. What an incredible adventure and it's not over yet. Reminds me of "grow old with me, the best is yet to be." .
> 
> 
> 
> I read the first post and only now see what brought you both to where it all started. You had such problems within the marriage you only had one way to go... it couldn't get worst, it had only one way to go...it could only get better, even as you say, even if it were ending...
> 
> This is where I am a firm believer that infidelity can help repair a troubled marriage, make it even better, but impossible to repair a good marriage, to make it even better...
> 
> I've yet to come across a successful R story from a happy long term marriage that suffered from infidelity late into the marriage...
> 
> ~sammy
Click to expand...

I agree with you. In fact I think that one of the things that saved EI and B1 was the fact that they could not afford to divorce right away. With that off the table they were forced to take steps to fix things.

With more money, they might be divorced today.


----------



## GusPolinski

sidney2718 said:


> I more than agree. I applaud, I cheer, I shout to the heavens. We need to stop with the Plan A Plan B nonsense. We need to stop with the Alpha males and the Beta males.


Eh... in many cases, the alpha/beta and/or Plan A/Plan B principles _do_ apply. That wasn't the case here, though.



sidney2718 said:


> We need to stop with the "once a cheater always a cheater".


Except where it applies.



sidney2718 said:


> We need to use our brains and our hearts and treat each case as unique involving unique people.


Agreed!



sidney2718 said:


> Thank you Gus.


----------



## MountainRunner

sidney2718 said:


> ... *We need to stop with the Alpha males and the Beta males*. We need to stop with the "once a cheater always a cheater". We need to use our brains and our hearts and treat each case as unique involving unique people.
> 
> Thank you Gus.


Indeed. Every time I see a member reply with the canned response "You need to read the MMSLP because you're beta..." I want to unload. That site and book is the biggest load of horse**** I've ever come across. Nothing but a bunch of **** swinging, misogynistic horse****. I'm as "Alpha" as they come but I'm not afraid to show/display my feelings toward a woman. And as a man who "cries" and a man who isn't afraid to talk about how I feel, I have *NEVER* had a problem finding a woman who wants to be with me in a relationship. In fact, that has been my problem. My wife even says that I am too "Alpha" in many instances.


----------



## MountainRunner

sammy3 said:


> I've yet to come across a successful R story from a happy long term marriage that suffered from infidelity late into the marriage...
> 
> ~sammy


You're gonna see another success story here. Just watch.


----------



## GusPolinski

MountainRunner said:


> Indeed. Every time I see a member reply with the canned response "You need to read the MMSLP because you're beta..." I want to unload. That site and book is the biggest load of horse**** I've ever come across. Nothing but a bunch of **** swinging, misogynistic horse****. I'm as "Alpha" as they come but I'm not afraid to show/display my feelings toward a woman. And as a man who "cries" and a man who isn't afraid to talk about how I feel, I have *NEVER* had a problem finding a woman who wants to be with me in a relationship. In fact, that has been my problem. My wife even says that I am too "Alpha" in many instances.


No offense, but the alpha/beta remarks are usually intended for _betrayed_ husbands, and not _wayward_ husbands.

And, as I said above, they _sometimes_ apply.


----------



## MountainRunner

GusPolinski said:


> No offense, but the alpha/beta remarks are usually intended for _betrayed_ husbands, and not _wayward_ husbands.
> 
> And, as I said above, they _sometimes_ apply.


None taken, but I initially was over at MMSL forum before here and like here, when I initially posted my issues.

Both here and MMSL, when I mentioned that I "pleaded" with my wife about our sex life or lack thereof, I was met with crap like "Real men don't plead/beg..."...Just a bunch of crap. I halfway expected some of the "alpha" to start spouting garbage like "Go out and buy a Harley Davidson".

Betrayed or wayward...men have feelings...at least those of us who are connected with them do. IMO, you can check the d**k swinging at the door.


----------



## GusPolinski

MountainRunner said:


> None taken, but I initially was over at MMSL forum before here and like here, when I initially posted my issues.
> 
> Both here and MMSL, when I mentioned that I "pleaded" with my wife about our sex life or lack thereof, I was met with crap like "Real men don't plead/beg..."...Just a bunch of crap. I halfway expected some of the "alpha" to start spouting garbage like "Go out and buy a Harley Davidson".
> 
> Betrayed or wayward...men have feelings...at least those of us who are connected with them do. IMO, you can check the d**k swinging at the door.


Standard disclaimer -- 

"Take what applies and leave the rest."


----------



## bfree

GusPolinski said:


> Standard disclaimer --
> 
> "Take what applies and leave the rest."


THAT IS what B1 did and thank God he did. There is no magic bullet. There is no cookie cutter advice. We can only do our best. Ultimately it is up to each individual to decide how to proceed.


----------



## jim123

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... in a great many cases, the alpha/beta and/or Plan A/Plan B principles _do_ apply. That wasn't the case here, though.
> 
> You are correct Gus, they often apply. A BH needs to see if it does as it is very different if you try and R.
> 
> In all cases the BH needs to work on himself to be a stronger better person. You need to control your life.
> 
> Except where it applies.
> 
> Good MC/IC's will tell you it is true. That is why the WS needs to get the why's. If the same conditions happen the WS will cheat again. The WS needs to be sure the same conditions happen again.
> 
> Agreed!


----------



## EI

GusPolinski said:


> Standard disclaimer --
> 
> "Take what applies and leave the rest."





bfree said:


> THAT IS what B1 did and thank God he did. There is no magic bullet. There is no cookie cutter advice. We can only do our best. Ultimately it is up to each individual to decide how to proceed.


Amen!

I would have settled for so much less, but B1 gave me everything I had ever hoped for in our marriage, and so much more than I ever dreamed possible. He's it for me. He wasn't just the best choice, he was, is, and always will be, the only choice. I wouldn't trade a single obstacle that we're facing, if it meant that I wouldn't be sharing my life with him. If anyone has read any of my posts, I think that it should come through, loud and clear, that all I have ever wanted, needed, and had to have in this life, was B1. I don't care, nor do I make apologies to the people who say that you have to learn to be happy, alone, before you can be happy with anyone else. NO........ maybe that's true for others, but not for me. Without his love, I crumble. I know that. I really do know that. He is my anchor. I make waves, but he keeps me grounded. We balance each other out. Together, we are exponentially greater than we are when we're apart.


----------



## jim123

EI said:


> Amen!
> 
> I would have settled for so much less, but B1 gave me everything I had ever hoped for in our marriage, and so much more than I ever dreamed possible. He's it for me. He wasn't just the best choice, he was, is, and always will be, the only choice. I wouldn't trade a single obstacle that we're facing, if it meant that I wouldn't be sharing my life with him. If anyone has read any of my posts, I think that it should come through, loud and clear, that all I have ever wanted, needed, and had to have in this life, was B1. I don't care, nor do I make apologies to the people who say that you have to learn to be happy, alone, before you can be happy with anyone else. NO........ maybe that's true for others, but not for me. Without his love, I crumble. I know that. I really do know that. He is my anchor. I make waves, but he keeps me grounded. We balance each other out. Together, we are exponentially greater than we are when we're apart.


I do not agree you would have settled for less. You got what you deserve because you would not settle for less.

Your honesty is what got you to where you are now. You and B1 are the playbook. Both put everything on the line. You did not jump to R, you ended in R.

You and B1 made your marriage great. You make each other great.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano

sidney2718 said:


> I more than agree. I applaud, I cheer, I shout to the heavens. We need to stop with the Plan A Plan B nonsense. We need to stop with the Alpha males and the Beta males. We need to stop with the "once a cheater always a cheater". We need to use our brains and our hearts and treat each case as unique involving unique people.
> 
> Thank you Gus.


Just saying that this is beautiful and needs to be TAM philosophy.


----------



## jim123

sidney2718 said:


> I more than agree. I applaud, I cheer, I shout to the heavens. We need to stop with the Plan A Plan B nonsense. We need to stop with the Alpha males and the Beta males. We need to stop with the "once a cheater always a cheater". We need to use our brains and our hearts and treat each case as unique involving unique people.
> 
> Thank you Gus.


Interesting that this story starts with EI can no longer be a Plan B. She was unloved and unsupported.

Interesting that a big part of the solution was B1 become more Alpha. We need to adjust what we think Alpha is.

Plan A and Plan B is not nonsense. We should never advise anyone back into a bad M nor convince them to live a life without love.

We need to help people become strong so they make the best choice for themselves. Just like EI and B1 did. They did not rush to R. They dealt with things then decided R.

This is not easy and there are no shortcuts.


----------



## ifweonly

"It Is What It is... your husband refused to have sex in a public car park?

NO? Really? Now why on EARTH would someone decline to have sex in a public car park? Where they might be seen by people they know, people they didn't know, restaurant staff, security staff, the police, children? 

Nope. You can't think of a reason? Oh. OK. Then I guess everything is your husband's fault, then?" 

Oh, whatever, Mr Prude, it’s not like it was going to be in the front parking spot of the restaurant, we were out for a few hours with NO kids, I was trying to be spontaneous and fun and please him on our “date”(may have even been our anniversary) wanting nothing in return… as we were at a red light waiting to pull into the parking lot, I slid next to him and started rubbing him while suggesting before we go in that we park in the back corner and have a little fun before going in. You apparently have no sense of adventure either. I guess I assumed all men would love their wife to do something like that. My bad.

Oh --- what adventure --- I do not know if all me would love their wife to do something like that but I would love for my wife to give it a go!!!!:lol:


----------



## EI

ifweonly said:


> "It Is What It is... your husband refused to have sex in a public car park?
> 
> NO? Really? Now why on EARTH would someone decline to have sex in a public car park? Where they might be seen by people they know, people they didn't know, restaurant staff, security staff, the police, children?
> 
> Nope. You can't think of a reason? Oh. OK. Then I guess everything is your husband's fault, then?"
> 
> Oh, whatever, Mr Prude, it’s not like it was going to be in the front parking spot of the restaurant, we were out for a few hours with NO kids, I was trying to be spontaneous and fun and please him on our “date”(may have even been our anniversary) wanting nothing in return… as we were at a red light waiting to pull into the parking lot, I slid next to him and started rubbing him while suggesting before we go in that we park in the back corner and have a little fun before going in. You apparently have no sense of adventure either. I guess I assumed all men would love their wife to do something like that. My bad.
> 
> Oh --- what adventure --- I do not know if all me would love their wife to do something like that but I would love for my wife to give it a go!!!!:lol:


I'm not stating my opinion on the above post, but I do want to make note, since the quotation feature was not used, that that was not my post that was being quoted. It was from another very short term poster early on in this thread.


----------



## EI

I appreciate all of the supportive comments that you all have been leaving since I revived this thread. I was a bit concerned that it might stir up a hornet's nest. 

Contrary to what some have suggested, in other threads, over the last couple of years, I don't enjoy the TAM drama. Real life is dramatic enough. 

If anyone is so inclined, please say a little prayer for B1. He has an appt. with his PCP on Tuesday, and his BP has not really gone down. I'm worried about him. I know he is too, but he's hesitant to admit it.


----------



## imjustwatching

This thread is to painful to read


----------



## sammy3

sidney2718 said:


> I agree with you. In fact I think that one of the things that saved EI and B1 was the fact that they could not afford to divorce right away. With that off the table they were forced to take steps to fix things.
> 
> With more money, they might be divorced today.



I'm not sure $ has a lot to do with it. IT might have made living apart easier, or options, but D, it's really a serious step to take, and with more $, more to untangle and more to lose and change. I know of a few friends that $ is of no issue and haven't walked away but are still fighting to save a long term marriage. 


I'm happy for E and for Mrs.John Adams, both had problems earlier on in the marriages. Infidelity in one case 30 yrs ago, and it took 30 yrs (((what a shame))of that white elephant living in that marriage, and finally now, they have come to a real place of happiness... and in the other, don't know how many yrs, of a wife hungry for affections, but hopefully hubby has seen the light and now the rest 30 yrs can live out with the person who has always just wanted them. It's just too bad it took what it took for hubby to see he was starving his spouse after years of her crying to him. There is a lot of forgiveness on both sides that gotta be met too. 

I was just so naive really until I HAD to join TAM, I really couldn't comprehend people living in marriages that were unhappy, had to be "worked at" sexless, mundane, alcohol issue, anger issues, I-L issues, children issues, etc..as I always said. "If that is what marriage is, I want nothing to do with it. Why would anyone ever stay? Better yet, why would anyone ever marry to live like that?"

My neighbor and I use to talk often about how lucky we were, we never felt like we had to "work' at our marriages... I'm not sure about hers now after learning so much from TAM, but I do know, mine wasn't work... we meshed well, we were on the same page for 28 yrs... it was an easy marriage... 

I really wish E well and hope it turns out she and hubby reunite as growing older is easier with someone than alone as I have been watching my parent age. It's a very frightening thing to watch when one see people well into their 70's, 80's alone, cant hear, stokes, dementia... trying to get thur the world... 
We all hope to age gracefully, and healthily and strong, but sadly, most of us haven't taken care of ourselves as we should of to age that way. 

I'm trying to not let infidelity rob me anymore of life that it already has and become the stronger of me that I can. Infidelity no matter which route it puts us on, is a life changing event... its a a part of our journey, our personal life. If you imagine a time-line of your own personal life...It's another part of what you experienced, not who yo are. 

~sammy


----------



## sammy3

MountainRunner said:


> You're gonna see another success story here. Just watch.


Yes, a success story finally for E , but for years she's been starving for his affection... was that a happy marriage?

If it was, I'm glad I didn't have that kind of marriage... 

~sammy


----------



## bfree

sammy3 said:


> Yes, a success story finally for E , but for years she's been starving for his affection... was that a happy marriage?
> 
> If it was, I'm glad I didn't have that kind of marriage...
> 
> ~sammy


If you read the entire story covered by several threads and thousands of posts (a daunting task for sure) you'll see that there were many underlying issues during their marriage pre affair. But they did and do truly love each other even if that love might have been smothered with other issues. The lesson here is to listen to your partner and to live life with your eyes wide open. Take nothing for granted because life is short and it is what you make it. So make it a good one.


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## manfromlamancha

Lets not go overboard here and completely dismiss the recommendations TAMMERS give BS's. Just because they are repetitive doesn't make them invalid.

EI started out with not really wanting a reconciliation - she was very much in love with her AP and had "the best sex she had ever had" - this was a difficult one to recover from. I would have said it was a goner at that point. She was not in love with B1 anymore - not at all and missed her AP terribly.

However, somewhere along the way, some magic happened (that I cannot even begin to understand) that is unique to B1 and EI and by no means commonplace. And they came back to an even stronger marriage. So the standard rules may not apply here, but don't expect this to be the case with the vast majority of cases that come to this forum.

Criticising TAM methods is not the way to achieve results and I still believe that the majority of the cases here merit the "TAM approach".


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## imjustwatching

manfromlamancha said:


> However, somewhere along the way, some magic happened (that I cannot even begin to understand)
> 
> .


Yeah right magic 
here is the facts my friend :
-the OM didn't want a serious relation with her and her special need kids
-her kids already hate the OM , don't you think they will hate her too if she left to be with him ?


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## GusPolinski

imjustwatching said:


> Yeah right magic
> here is the facts my friend :
> -the OM didn't want a serious relation with her and her special need kids
> -her kids already hate the OM , don't you think they will hate her too if she left to be with him ?


You should probably commit to a steady regimen of (a) more reading and (b) less typing.


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## naiveonedave

sidney2718 said:


> We need to stop with the Plan A Plan B nonsense. We need to stop with the Alpha males and the Beta males. We need to stop with the "once a cheater always a cheater". We need to use our brains and our hearts and treat each case as unique involving unique people.


Nah - they just need context. There are no totally Alpha nor totally Beta males. Pretty much everyone has some of each and the distinction is useful, but not in every situation.

Some with Plan A and Plan B. If you have a WAW, you are clearly plan B and probably should act appropriately. If your W has a ONS or an escalating EA/PA, she probably doesn't know which guy she wants, which is not necessarily a plan A or B situation. Useful distinctions, IMO. Just not absolutes


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## jim123

EI said:


> I appreciate all of the supportive comments that you all have been leaving since I revived this thread. I was a bit concerned that it might stir up a hornet's nest.
> 
> Contrary to what some have suggested, in other threads, over the last couple of years, I don't enjoy the TAM drama. Real life is dramatic enough.
> 
> If anyone is so inclined, please say a little prayer for B1. He has an appt. with his PCP on Tuesday, and his BP has not really gone down. I'm worried about him. I know he is too, but he's hesitant to admit it.


He is so strong and so loved, he will be fine. My best wishes.


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## jim123

manfromlamancha said:


> Lets not go overboard here and completely dismiss the recommendations TAMMERS give BS's. Just because they are repetitive doesn't make them invalid.
> 
> EI started out with not really wanting a reconciliation - she was very much in love with her AP and had "the best sex she had ever had" - this was a difficult one to recover from. I would have said it was a goner at that point. She was not in love with B1 anymore - not at all and missed her AP terribly.
> 
> However, somewhere along the way, some magic happened (that I cannot even begin to understand) that is unique to B1 and EI and by no means commonplace. And they came back to an even stronger marriage. So the standard rules may not apply here, but don't expect this to be the case with the vast majority of cases that come to this forum.
> 
> Criticising TAM methods is not the way to achieve results and I still believe that the majority of the cases here merit the "TAM approach".


Actually B1 did what we recommend. The object is to get control. Work on yourself and move forward. B1 is such a strong man that he did it without having to throw EI out, demean her or file D. 

He just worked on him and became a man she loved and did not want to let go.

Everything we propose works just like B1 did, few can pull it off.

OM was only a way out of a dire situation. Once that ended, so did OM.


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## jim123

GusPolinski said:


> You should probably commit to a steady regimen of (a) more reading and (b) less typing.


Gus,

Best quote of the year do far. Do not forget with more reading there is also a need for comprehension.

This is one great story that anyone with even the smallest of hearts can not root for these two.

I recommend a trip to the wizard for someone who needs a brain (to comprehend), a heart (to have compassion) and the courage (to forgive). The scarecrow, the tin man and the lion will understand.

Hats off to EI and B1. My thoughts and prayers to you both.


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## to much drama

Hi EI,

It took me forever to catch up. Then I find out that the last time was 2012. I had so much to tell/ask/offer.

Has B1 been on here?

I see since 2012 things are still going good for the both of you.
Does he still have flash backs? still gets upset? Things keep popping in his head that upsets him. Places you both go sometimes trigger things? Has it all slowed down and stopped?

CR


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## sammy3

bfree said:


> If you read the entire story covered by several threads and thousands of posts (a daunting task for sure) you'll see that there were many underlying issues during their marriage pre affair. But they did and do truly love each other even if that love might have been smothered with other issues. The lesson here is to listen to your partner and to live life with your eyes wide open. Take nothing for granted because life is short and it is what you make it. So make it a good one.


Couldnt agree with you more! And even doing having and thinking, believing you are doing all...after a life time together, it still can fall apart... 

~~sammy


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## bfree

sammy3 said:


> Couldnt agree with you more! And even doing having and thinking, believing you are doing all...after a life time together, it still can fall apart...
> 
> ~~sammy


Yes it can. Especially if both people aren't pulling together.


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## larry.gray

I'll offer a thread suggestion EI.

You're going to get people reading the the original post without noting the date and commenting based only on that. I'd suggest you put a little header on the first post something like this:

*******
UPDATE
I'm leaving this thread here because others have found it's useful. This post was made a long time ago, and my husband and I have long since reconciled. Please read to the end before commenting. Attacking me for who I was then and am not today will not be taken well.
********


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## GusPolinski

larry.gray said:


> I'll offer a thread suggestion EI.
> 
> You're going to get people reading the the original post without noting the date and commenting based only on that. I'd suggest you put a little header on the first post something like this:
> 
> *******
> UPDATE
> I'm leaving this thread here because others have found it's useful. This post was made a long time ago, and my husband and I have long since reconciled. Please read to the end before commenting. Attacking me for who I was then and am not today will not be taken well.
> ********


Seconded! In fact, I find myself somewhat appreciative toward OPs that take this approach in particularly long threads. Not that this one is long at all.


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## bfree

larry.gray said:


> I'll offer a thread suggestion EI.
> 
> You're going to get people reading the the original post without noting the date and commenting based only on that. I'd suggest you put a little header on the first post something like this:
> 
> *******
> UPDATE
> I'm leaving this thread here because others have found it's useful. This post was made a long time ago, and my husband and I have long since reconciled. Please read to the end before commenting. Attacking me for who I was then and am not today will not be taken well.
> ********


Way to ruin the ending of a good story!


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## EI

larry.gray said:


> I'll offer a thread suggestion EI.
> 
> You're going to get people reading the the original post without noting the date and commenting based only on that. I'd suggest you put a little header on the first post something like this:
> 
> *******
> UPDATE
> I'm leaving this thread here because others have found it's useful. This post was made a long time ago, and my husband and I have long since reconciled. Please read to the end before commenting. Attacking me for who I was then and am not today will not be taken well.
> ********


Thank you for the great idea! Done!


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## EI

GusPolinski said:


> Seconded! In fact, I find myself somewhat appreciative toward OPs that take this approach in particularly long threads. Not that this one is long at all.


Hey, have ya seen the R thread?


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## GusPolinski

EI said:


> Hey, have ya seen the R thread?


LOL... you mean the "tl;dr" thread? :rofl:

I remember wanting to read it, but the sheer size of the thread turned me away from it.


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## ConanHub

GusPolinski said:


> LOL... you mean the "tl;dr" thread? :rofl:
> 
> I remember wanting to read it, but the sheer size of the thread turned me away from it.


Oh come on! Who hasn't got a couple of months to spare? 

Some good info in that thread. Wish it was cataloged.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

ConanHub said:


> Oh come on! Who hasn't got a couple of months to spare?
> 
> Some good info in that thread. Wish it was cataloged.


Oh I agree but HOLY SH*T it's huge. Plus there are tons of people contributing at different points, and it's tough to keep up w/ all of the narratives contained within.


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## ConanHub

GusPolinski said:


> Oh I agree but HOLY SH*T it's huge. Plus there are tons of people contributing at different points, and it's tough to keep up w/ all of the narratives contained within.


I actually did spend a month at one point reading that thread. Glutton for punishment here!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

GusPolinski said:


> Oh I agree but HOLY SH*T it's huge. Plus there are tons of people contributing at different points, and it's tough to keep up w/ all of the narratives contained within.


Maybe but it's a damned good read. I go back and read it once in a while. It's uplifting to see where people were and where they ended up. I think it should be required reading for anyone who wants to post in CWI. It certainly would weed out the hit and runners.


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## Mr Blunt

*That thread is HUGE but you can just read the B1 and EI posts so you do not have to read for days. There are a lot of good posts on that thread besides B1 and EI but for the sake of avoiding reading until you need stronger glasses, you can just read about the person who started the thread, B1.

In addition, B1 and EI are so open and honest and very good writers*


*PS... As a added benefit it is important to know that B1 and EI are doing GREAT and comming up on THREE YEARS of R*


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## EI

The good news is that B1's blood pressure has come down a little. The bad news is that it's not nearly enough. I was concerned that his doctor would put him back in the hospital, but she just changed his medication, again. I hate this so much. I hate seeing him feel this way. It breaks my heart. When you don't feel well for an extended period of time, you can begin to feel depressed and discouraged. He's trying so hard to feel better and to not let this bring him down. 

We have so many things going on right now that we can't put on the back burner because we don't have a choice. I can fix a lot of things, but I can't fix his health, and I can't fix what we're going through. There are no quick fixes to any of it. 

If things weren't difficult enough, we had our taxes filed on Monday. As of last year, we were still able to claim three of our children as dependents. Even though our special needs son is 25, we we're still able to claim him on our taxes because I am his legal guardian and he does not earn an income. But, now, that he has moved into his own home, we are no longer able to claim him as a dependent. 

But, to my absolute shock and horror, we were not able to claim our two youngest sons, either. They are 22 and 19, and both still live at home. We feed, clothe, and shelter them, pay for their car insurance, cell phones, medical bills, and prescriptions. But, apparently, they both earned "too much money" to be claimed as dependents. I can assure you that we didn't see any of their money. Our youngest son works part time and goes to college. His employer is paying for his education. Our 22 y/o son is working full-time. 

For the last couple of years, I've had our CPA figure the difference, on the boys returns, between us claiming them, or allowing them to claim themselves. Being able to claim them as dependents, made a huge difference for B1 and me. We would claim them on our taxes, but we always gave them the difference. This time, we didn't have the option. Therefore, they got substantial returns, and B1 and I got hit with a huge tax bill. And, we had to pay over $200 to get that great news! 

I'll bet I know what you're thinking. And, I think the same way. The "boys" need to be paying for, at least, some of their own expenses. I think they should at least be paying for their car insurance and their cell phones. I, also, think that "the difference" on their tax returns should be coming back to B1 and me. That small difference doesn't even come close to making up for what it cost us on our tax bill. 

B1 doesn't have the heart to take "their money," and that can really frustrate me, at times. But, a few years ago, I asked B1 to step up and take the leadership role in our family, and he has. And, one thing I know, is that you cannot ask someone to do a job, and then complain about the way they do it, or try to micro-manage them every step of the way. So, I'm trying to step back and trust that he's got this. 

Life is challenging for everyone, not just for those in R. It's challenging, even for those who have never experienced infidelity. So, I think there may be some value in sharing what it can look like at various stages in the R journey. A successful R does not mean that life is all sunshine and roses, all of the time. How many people do you know whose life is like that, every singe day? I, personally, don't know anyone who hasn't faced challenges and obstacles at some point in their lives. But, I honestly believe, that no matter what challenges life may bring, it is much sweeter and more rewarding when you are sharing it with someone you love, and who loves you back. Knowing that B1 and I are facing our future, together; the good, the bad, and the mundane, gives me comfort, joy, peace and hope. Come what may, as long as I have B1 by my side, I will be blissfully content.


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## drifting on

EI

Still sending prayers and thoughts your way. I hope you and B1 have a little calm in your near future. Stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jim123

EI said:


> The good news is that B1's blood pressure has come down a little. The bad news is that it's not nearly enough. I was concerned that his doctor would put him back in the hospital, but she just changed his medication, again. I hate this so much. I hate seeing him feel this way. It breaks my heart. When you don't feel well for an extended period of time, you can begin to feel depressed and discouraged. He's trying so hard to feel better and to not let this bring him down.
> 
> We have so many things going on right now that we can't put on the back burner because we don't have a choice. I can fix a lot of things, but I can't fix his health, and I can't fix what we're going through. There are no quick fixes to any of it.
> 
> If things weren't difficult enough, we filed our taxes filed on Monday. As of last year, we were still able to claim three of our children as dependents. Even though our special needs son is 25, we we're still able to claim him on our taxes because I am his legal guardian and he does not earn an income. But, now, that he has moved into his own home, we are no longer able to claim him as a dependent.
> 
> But, to my absolute shock and horror, we were not able to claim our two youngest sons, either. They are 22 and 19, and both still live at home. We feed, clothe, and shelter them, pay for their car insurance, cell phones, medical bills, and prescriptions. But, apparently, they both earned "too much money" to be claimed as dependents. I can assure you that we didn't see any of their money. Our youngest son works part time and goes to college. His employer is paying for his education. Our 22 y/o son is working full-time.
> 
> For the last couple of years, I've had our CPA figure the difference, on the boys returns, between us claiming them, or allowing them to claim themselves. Being able to claim them as dependents, made a huge difference for B1 and me. We would claim them on our taxes, but we always gave them the difference. This time, we didn't have the option. Therefore, they got substantial returns, and B1 and I got hit with a huge tax bill. And, we had to pay over $200 to get that great news!
> 
> I'll bet I know what you're thinking. And, I think the same way. The "boys" need to be paying for, at least, some of their own expenses. I think they should at least be paying for their car insurance and their cell phones. I, also, think that "the difference" on their tax returns should be coming back to B1 and me. That small difference doesn't even come close to making up for what it cost us on our tax bill.
> 
> B1 doesn't have the heart to take "their money," and that can really frustrate me, at times. But, a few years ago, I asked B1 to step up and take the leadership role in our family, and he has. And, one thing I know, is that you cannot ask someone to do a job, and then complain about the way they do it, or try to micro-manage them every step of the way. So, I'm trying to step back and trust that he's got this.
> 
> Life is challenging for everyone, not just for those in R. It's challenging, even for those who have never experienced infidelity. So, I think there may be some value in sharing what it can look like at various stages in the R journey. A successful R does not mean that life is all sunshine and roses, all of the time. How many people do you know whose life is like that, every singe day? I, personally, don't know anyone who hasn't faced challenges and obstacles at some point in their lives. But, I honestly believe, that no matter what challenges life may bring, it is much sweeter and more rewarding when you are sharing it with someone you love, and who loves you back. Knowing that B1 and I are facing our future, together; the good, the bad, and the mundane, gives me comfort, joy, peace and hope. Come what may, as long as I have B1 by my side, I will be blissfully content.


Glad to hear about B1. Sorry for your troubles. I know you guys as a team are unbeatable.


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## farsidejunky

Thanks for putting it back up, EI. 
I have said it before: you and B1 are the bench mark for reconciliation on TAM. The story needs to be read.


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## Mr Blunt

> BY EI
> Life is challenging for everyone, not just for those in R. It's challenging, even for those who have never experienced infidelity. So, I think there may be some value in sharing what it can look like at various stages in the R journey. A successful R does not mean that life is all sunshine and roses, all of the time. How many people do you know whose life is like that, every singe day? I, personally, don't know anyone who hasn't faced challenges and obstacles at some point in their lives. But, I honestly believe, that no matter what challenges life may bring, it is much sweeter and more rewarding when you are sharing it with someone you love, and who loves you back. Knowing that B1 and I are facing our future, together; the good, the bad, and the mundane, gives me comfort, joy, peace and hope. Come what may, as long as I have B1 by my side, I will be blissfully content.






> *A successful R does not mean that life is all sunshine and roses, all of the time.*


I just got back today from the hospital as my wife had to have a kidney biopsy; doctor said blood tests show something irregular. We will get the results in the near future. We have a successful R and there was no sunshine today. Just wanted you to know that I share in your health challenge for your spouse.

However, I know that I do not have the challenges that you and B1 have and your post above is very encouraging not just for people that are in R but for all people that face other challenges. I know that you and B1 have been knocked to the floor many times due to others issues but you get back up and come here in pain, with stress, and give us encouragement and hope. You and B1 are the Rocky and Rocketta of TAM!


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## Jasel

Wow. You've come along way. This thread started like 6 months before I came here. Who doesn't love a happy ending:smthumbup:


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