# Husband avoids the tough stuff



## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

Before I share my problems, I would like to say a big thank you to everyone here. My marriage became such a struggle around 2 years ago and on an search for answers, I came across this site. I read nearly everything I could that I thought would help. It did. We hit another big bump a year ago which resulted in H and me attending a counsellor, separate and together. In the last 6 months, we have both tried really hard and life was looking good with a far better connection between us. But a few recent events seem to have put us back quite a bit.

H works away and last time he was home, when I got home from work, he announced that were were cooking dinner for 4 friends that night. I asked "what are you cooking" since he had been home all day. He expected me to go shopping with him for the food, help to cook and tidy up while he entertained them. This lack of consideration and being taken for granted has been an on going theme with varying degrees for most of our marriage. I said that since he organised it he shouldn't expect me to help so much when I have been out and he was home all day. It got into a bit of an argument with me trying to explain how I felt but he said I was over reacting. Anyway, H leaves and gives me the silent treatment. The next day I told him not to do that to me again and he agreed.

H is home now and it has happened twice in 2 weeks. Slightly different situations but had the same result. The first time I ignored him and carried on. He started talking the next day. This recent time is different especially from me. He refused to talk and went outside. When I asked him what was wrong (I thought it was about emptying and filling the dishwasher) he said it wasn't but wouldn't say. And that was it. When he came in to use the toilet he walked past me as if I was invisible. This time I have withdrawn from him as I feel really hurt. I feel as if all the hard work is gone. It wasn't real. I have been really upset this time and only spoken about to him about kids, home, etc. I know this isn't the best way to deal with this but I finding it hard to be close to him.

I couldn't sleep one night and decided to write to a completely honest email to him about how I feel that he has done this again after promising not to, broken trust, etc. I have never done this before but it helped me to write it all down without interuption, denial and anger. At the end I asked him what we could do, talk, counsellor, etc I didn't send it until the following day. I thought this might be the best way to communicate as H shuts down and withdraws when anything difficult needs to be dealt with and I didn't want him to feel pressured and put on the spot. When that happens, he looks like a deer in the headlights and totally closes off. I didn't want that to happen.

It has been 3 days now and all he said was "it wasn't about the dishwasher and I didnt ignore you" and walked away. That's been it apart from the basics. I haven't brought it up as I hoped he would take the lead without feeling pushed into it and given some space. 

H is going back to work on Monday for nearly 5 weeks and this really needs to be dealt with so we can learn and move on but it looks like I will have to be the one, again, to be the grown up and take responsibility for it to happen.

I would really appreciate any advice in dealing with this situation. How do I get him to talk and face up to what happened? Boundries and consequences seem to be what I am struggling with although I have really improved over the last 8 years, just maybe not enough. I know my withdrawal hasn't helped but this time I have found it hard to keep going as normal. 

I didn't want to make this too long so please ask if more info would help.

We have been married 22 years with 2 teenage girls.
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Yes,

As a former passive aggressive, asking him what's wrong is just fuelling the fire. Except your fuelling it with uranium and not just coal. 

This is exactly what he wants you to do. He used the silent treatment to force you to submit, and justify his anger. This is classic passive aggressive techniques. And the "nothing's wrong!" Response is also a common tool in our tickle trunk of weapons. 

Yes. Weapons. These actions are a type of punishment towards you. You slighted us, and we will make you feel bad now. And in a few days when we feel you had enough, we will act like nothing happened at all. 

This kind of shat is the worst. You start thinking that maybe the way your feeling is all in your head, and your the one to blame. Maybe if I do this....or that....things will get better. Eventually though...if this continues...you'll start to go crazy in your mind. Trying to guess what reaction you will create and how to tiptoe around him. 


Trust me. It's not you. It's all him. And his emotionally stunted way he learned to deal with conflict at an early age. 

How do you deal? Good question. Let me tell you. 

DO NOT GIVE IN! Never give in to his moods. Never ask what's wrong. Never try to find a reason. You go about the rest of your day like its the best day in the world. Emotionally separate yourself from his interaction. Act like his mood doesn't affect you at all. You need to take away that common reaction he's expecting. Every time you give in its just justification to him that his behaviour is working. If you take that away, he no longer has his power of emotional blackmail. And his weapons become useless.
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Read this...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...gresive-emotional-unavailable-husbands-4.html

I think I'm on page 4 and onwards. It's different pages on different devices, though. 

Here's my first post there.....

I was s true passive aggressive. A lot of people use that term, but when you finally meet crazy....man! We totally know how to screw with your mind. We keep you guessing with our subtle put downs. 

We make you so pissed off. Except we are experts at it. You don't even know if you "should" be pissed off. Your gut says "this is insane". 

But, Then we turn sweet and Ilovey. and you think everything is great. That is, until you do something that makes us mad, then we get evil. 

We Keep you on the knife blade, because we never tell you what's wrong. Your supposed to guess. Except you can't. Because we never let on with our words that we are slighted. Only are actions. Except our words contradict our actions. Which totally screws with yourind even more. And we don't let up until we reach that point where if we go farther, we have to admit we are angry. Then we turn lovey again. 

And soon, your mind is messed up. Your confused. You know this isn't right. But maybe it's all in your head. So you end up on Prozac. But that doesn't even work, because we are masters at fu(king with your mind. Prozac is no match for our special Kung fu craziness. 

Yes. That was me. I had a come to Jesus moment. Turned my life around. Found out why I did those things. Understood my craziness. Saw it for what it was. And changed. 

Passive aggressive people won't change. Not unless they are dangling from Thier own precipice. And have Thier own come to Jesus moment. They won't listen to your reason, and won't admit Thier craziness. They will be scared shatless of facing those demons unless they are forced to. 

Sorry for the depressing words. That's probably not the advise you want to hear. But it's the way it is.
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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

Alphaomega that describes him and me to a t. He is like a deer in the headlights when you confront him.

The counsellor told him to grow up and realise his responsibilities. He was shocked but seemed to acknowledge it. She also told him that he was a black and white thinker. I have read a bit about this. After his session with her, that's when things started to improve. Could the recent events be caused by me dropping my "guard" ? 

Our eldest daughter gives the silent treatment but it usually only lasts 1-2 hours and then back to normal. I seem to deal with her different to H. They are either enemies having a stand off or best of buddies, which is what they are just now.

I read that thread a while back but will re read. I also bought the book Living with a PA, I think its called, will need to go through that again. H grew up, eldest of 3, with a passive father and a controlling and domineering mother who would hit him or throw things at him. Now he doesn't contact her much but when he does it's like listening to a child. It does make me sad for him which is probably where my weakness is.

He leaves for work tomorrow and nothing has been mentioned about my email, etc. Should I bring it up before he goes or just leave it for him to figure out himself?
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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Let it go. 

Work on yourself. Read up all those things that make you stronger.


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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

I have always been quite a strong person. The one everyone came to in a crisis, I just knew, and still do, what to do and make things better. This is a whole new ball game. I find it really hard when I am seen and made to feel like its all my fault and when H looks at me as if he is a puppy I have just kicked and goes into ultra pleasing mode, it gets my insides churning.
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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It sounds like he sees you as the dominant partner in the relationship. He relies on your support. When he does not get it, he is hurt.

You want support, too. But you are unlikely to get it before you give it.

Instead of writing him a letter about your feelings, go to him and ask about his with empathy. Warmly, kindly, say, "You seem hurt. You expected me to help you with dinner. When I did not respond affirmatively, you were hurt. Would you like to talk about it?"

If you can draw him out, he should feel safe and not resort to the silent treatment. He does that to protect himself.

I am not saying he should be this way. It is really a pain for you, no doubt. But he may have a limited capacity for leadership. As a follower, though, he may be quite good.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I agree with JLD that it sounds like he may need this kind of thing.

I was involved with a man like this. He would treat me unfairly and then need this kind of stuff, even when he treated me unfairly in the first place. No matter how awful, angry, or mistreated I felt as a result of his behavior, his feelings came first, I had to stuff mine and cater to his childish reactions FIRST.

I understood this about him and knew it was the only way to solve conflict with him. Even though I loved him very much, I could not do it. I started having heart palpitations and trouble sleeping due to having to stuff down his unkind, unfair, undeserved treatment.

Just something to think about. Some women can handle a dynamic like this, some can't.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Livvie said:


> I agree with JLD that it sounds like he may need this kind of thing.
> 
> I was involved with a man like this. He would treat me unfairly and then need this kind of stuff, even when he treated me unfairly in the first place. No matter how awful, angry, or mistreated I felt as a result of his behavior, his feelings came first, I had to stuff mine and cater to his childish reactions FIRST.
> 
> ...


That's kind of sad, livvie

I was a terrible person before I "fixed" myself. I thought I was awesome but deep down I was not very kind. 

I drove my wife to Prozac I was so bad...so I understand how you became physically "unwell" under those conditions
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Yes,

You need to talk kindly and very non accusatory to him is you don't want him to shut down. Like your talking to a 6 year old. 

This isn't a fix. He needs to do that himself.
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

He most likely will not answer your email if it's been a while since he got it. Looking at myself, I would have worried about it for days...trying to avoid a "serious" talk like that. 

The longer you leave it, the less likely he will respond. But if you leave it alone...he will think his avoidance and silence "worked"

Bring it up to him but gently and kindly Before or after his trip. Just don't sweep it under the table. 

Or you can have the same topic conversation later without bringing up the email. Doesn't matter. What matters is that you don't let it slide. This topic is important to you 

Btw. Is your sexual relationship with him good? I ask because of the "adoration" factor some PAs have. He's still like any other man in that factor, but if it's lacking...its just another notch in his tool of resentment inside him he'll use as a "weapon" later.
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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

alphaomega said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with JLD that it sounds like he may need this kind of thing.
> ...


Not to threadjack, but thank you for this!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

OP

Has this been happening for a big chunk of the 22 years you two were together? Or is this behaviour something that just started to get worse in the last few years?
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

A therapist telling the PA husband to grow up is the worst advise. That's like telling my eight year old to grow up. Both don't know "how", although one of them could get there with some therapy, while one has to let it come naturally in ten more years.
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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

I thinks H sees me as the more dominate partner. Been independent since 18, house, car, job, etc and then just carried on when I got married especially the day to day stuff. Big decisions we made together. Even now. H has worked away since he was 16. 

Sometimes it takes an argument to get him to open and be honest about how he feels. I push him for an answer, no nastiness but I'm firm, H cracks and then we get somewhere and have a calm honest chat. Doesn't happen to often. 

Sex has always been good. 3-5 times a week. Rough patches could be nothing for 1-2 weeks. On both sides.

I wasnt in his counselling sessions, for him to grow up was his words to me.
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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

Before he left today I said the we needed to talk when he came home. He agreed and didn't look as shocked or "little boyish" as I thought he would be.

BTW.. What do you think of this conversation we had today? We are getting security screens on our windows.

H - " once the other quote come in, which I think will be dearer, can you organise to get it done for me coming home?"

Me -" I can organise for it to be done once you are home since you have spoken to the people and know what needs to be done. It's not like it's a present for you?"

10 mins later he says " can you organise it for once I'm home" 
Me " yes ok"
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

That conversation isn't a display of his passive aggressive. PAs can handle anything as long as it's not directed at thier personality or "flaws" 

That's just talking about some screens. 

Don't confuse his silent outbursts with him wanting you to take care of all the domestic chores and organizing. I think that's just him with a habit of relying upon you to take care of everything
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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

How do I stop him relying on me so much especially when he is home and start to be an equal partner? I have tried so hard over the years for him to become "the man of the house". H is not able to maintain it for long and then seems to resent me when I take over. Is he really angry with me or himself?

At times, the kids will walk past H to ask me a simple question. He askes them why they didn't ask him. They don't really know but it upsets him. I have told him to keep talking to us and let us know he is there, not keep quiet. Make us need him.

What really puzzles me is he has a really good responsible job which takes him overseas a lot and he does it well but can't seem to do it take charge with anything at home. BTW.. the security screens were my idea as usual.
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## Kj80 (Nov 10, 2015)

I don't want to make this seem less important than it is but why did you guys have a fight over something so petty? I mean asking your wife to go to the shops and help out with dinner isn't that mean? There has to be more to the story if your this upset? I think you really need someone to tell you how silly this sounds. And I completely understand sometimes we lose our ways and us women have different mindsets to men he might not even realise (by the sounds of it) that he was "ignoring" you. Sometimes I can over exaggerate and think my husband is angry at me all because he didn't answer a question how I expected him to lol. It's all in my head. And half the time I don't even believe him when he says he's not angry until he says it how I thought he would say it and it makes me laugh because I sounded so stupid lol. I haven't read other replies but maybe when you're less upset you can re-read this and see it for what I see, maybe not. But all couples have silly little tiffs and they don't seem so important once the fire burns out lol. Hope you's work it out. I know how hard it is to live without your husband at home my hubby used to work away as well. And sometimes that would even cause arguments just because I missed him and felt distant.


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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

The argument about tea was probably silly. But I had been out all day, he was home and had invited people over for dinner without mentioning anything to me. Expected me to go shopping, cook and tidy while he entertained them. It was about him taking me for granted. Then when I pulled him up for it, he was the one who stopped talking - silent treatment.

I told him not to do that to me again he agreed. H broke his promise and did it again, twice. Both because I questioned him for his actions. Just when I thought things were going along on the right track, it feels like nothing really has changed and I don't want to go back there. I think that is why I am feeling hurt and upset.
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

flipflops said:


> Are you my husband? Oh wait, you wouldn't admit you had a problem because it's ALWAYS the fault of someone else. This is one of the main reasons I'm filing soon. I can't do it anymore. I have felt all those emotions you've posted and been on medication because I'm "mental" (in his mind). This treatment feels worse than when he cheated.


Wow. A double punch to the gut. So sorry about that. It must feel like hell. 

You are mental. He drove you there. You can't try to understand the logic in a PA. We have none. It's whatever whim of emotion we decide to show you that day...whatever emotion will hurt you the most but that's just safe enough for us so we don't have to admit we are angry. 

Kung fu crazy!
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Don't get me started, dear. I was messed up

If you do, I require a 26oz of Crown Royal and 8 hours of your time. 😛
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Ask away. I think in this post it may be relevant to the OPs own husband
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

flipflops said:


> OK, why do our kids walk past us or ask us a question right in front of them when they question is about them?
> 
> Can you rephrase this question. I don't fully understand it.
> 
> ...


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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

H will also ask me stuff about the kids. "Do they like/want/go..............?"

My answer "ASK THEM" 

I have an appointment next week with the counsellor we have seen before. Hoping it will help.
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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

How did you say..."ask them?"

Was it gentle? Or with a tone of "well, ask them stupid!!!"

That last one would cause all kinds of trouble very passively and subtly
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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

Usually I would just say "I don't know, ask them" as gentle as possible. But sometimes it might sound harsh out of sheer frustration. I understand if it was about stuff that happens when he is away but " Do they want to come to the shop?" or "What would they like for tea" I can't answer that.
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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> How did you say..."ask them?"
> 
> Was it gentle? Or with a tone of "well, ask them stupid!!!"
> 
> ...


depending on the level of sensitivity of the person being told to asked, it may not matter HOW its worded or delivered. any suggestion that can be interpreted as "you could have figured this out yourself" can become the next fuel for the PA engine. 

the only effective way i know of dealing with someone who is passive aggressive is to tell them that i am emotionally distancing myself from them because it seems that something is wrong, i dont know what it is or even if there really is anything wrong, and since you say everything is fine, im going to go do my own thing. i use that response for passive aggressive jabs that dont make any sense as well as for silent treatment. sometimes i get caught up in the passive aggressive thing too, and my wife will use the same responses to snap me out of it. 

it seems that once someone KNOWS that their own silence WILL cause their spouse to pull away and live their own merry life, the lack of communication carries scary consequences. 

strangely enough, stating, out loud, a deliberate reaction to percieved PA behavior seems to obliterate it. and it makes sense. the person being passive aggressive has to then prove that they are not, but nobody has THAT much ability to "act", so they either have to genuinely drop the issue that bothers them, or talk about it. 

because if they continue the silent treatment and subtle jabs, they will see their spouse drift away, so they lose two things: control and security. the only way to maintain either would be to engage directly. which is exactly what NEEDS to happen in order to develop healthy communication habits. 

if its NOT passive aggressive behavior that is being called out, the natural response is active aggression. people get mad when they are accused of something they aren't doing. which might cause a fight, but as far as i can tell, aggressive communication is better than NO, or deliberately confusing, communication. at least things get resolved eventually.


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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

So really I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.
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## getting it wrong (Nov 5, 2015)

I went to see my counsellor last week. I like her and can be open and honest. She helps me to understand everything. Anyway, she was quite shocked at how insecure H is. I knew he was like this but not to the extent she said he was. It shocked me as he travels overseas a lot, work, etc all by himself with no problems. She said it was because he knew that life but struggles to know what to do within a family. I never saw it that way. I told her I was tired being the "only responsible adult" and that my health was suffering.

H is still away and phones everyday but I am finding it hard. We chat but it feels disconnected and tense and is only lasting about 5 mins. Its hard to solve anything when he isn't here and I don't like really bringing it up when he needs to focus on his job but probably something I should. 

I have made an appointment with the counsellor for both of us for when he comes home to carry on what we started.
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