# What do you guys talk about?



## stamina

Hi, I started another thread to gather input about sex life after having kids, but I would like to ask you guys for your input on something else if you don't mind.

After a few years being married, what do you guys actually talk about with one another? Do you guys run dry out of topics like me, and how do you cope with it? 

I'm in a very technical job that won't have anything comprehensible for people outside my field so it's hard to talk about that. Being engineers, all of us are introverts so it's not like we generate office drama of interest to take home at the end of the day.


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## ccpowerslave

Politics, the news, travel, entertainment or documentary programs, family, friends, food, books, movies, sports, etc...

You know, you kind of marry someone who you could be best friends with and then talk about that kind of stuff.


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## CharlieParker

Everything and nothing, often at the same time.


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## Evinrude58

Sometimes I take trips with ladies to new places and tons to talk about. Do you and your wife plan trips together? Cook together? Any hobbies together? Church together? If you don’t do anything together, you lose the connection and there’s nothing to talk about. Get it back.


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## stamina

I think this is the part where I probably married the wrong woman. Or shall I say she married the wrong man.
We don't plan trips together because personally I'm a bit of a hermit. We don't cook together but she does occasionally help me pass the odd items here and there. I find difficulties being a team player and just prefer people to stay out of the way so that I can do a good job. A perfectionist mentality, as my conselor says. Hobbies even less so. To be honest I couldn't even remember how we enjoyed each other before. We just enjoyed each others company I guess. Then we used to have sex a lot so now that's missing, it leaves a large gap. In terms of church, she is definitely less enthused compared to me. She's definitely very passive about it. As in she believes there is a God, and that's about it. If I live stream church, it's not like she'll be jumping onto the couch with me.

Yes, trying to find some way to reconnect with her, which is why I'm here. And I'm really running out of ideas. I would wish that our connection time was filled with sex like back in the good old days, but this sounds a bit like a chicken and egg problem.


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## Evinrude58

How old are you and how long married?
Do you love your wife?

I think if you ever really loved her, you can rediscover that. And what the problem with the sex? Give us some details and it’s easier to help.

Hermit, huh?
There’s nowhere you’d like to go?
What do you ENJOY most about life?

There’s a whole world out there that you can share with your wife. There’s bound to be bits that you’d both find fun and exciting to explore.

I Do NOT like to dance. I LOVED taking dance lessons (waltz) with my fiancée. Then again, I was crazy in love with her at the time.

I don’t care for the beach, but I love to fish. I found a beach on the pacific side of Cabo San Lucas where you could catch 200lb Tuna off the beach. I unknowingly chose a resort on the wrong side of the peninsula, but hats another story.

My point is, I think you can discover a way to get the fun back with your wife if you put that engineering mind of yours to work on it (not that you haven’t). 

I’ll think on it if you give us some ideas of things you really enjoy.


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## stamina

Evinrude58 said:


> How old are you and how long married?
> Do you love your wife?
> 
> I think if you ever really loved her, you can rediscover that. And what the problem with the sex? Give us some details and it’s easier to help.


33 yrs, married almost 6 years, kid 3 years old, approaching 4.
Love her heaps. That's why I'm still married to her. She had a kid with me 3 years ago. It was a cesarean birth. Apparently this really kills the libido. Have been in a sexless marriage for the past 3 years. Before the kid, sex was great - plentiful and intense. Now, I've had maybe 3-4 grudging encounters over the last 3 years of my kid being born. That's the short version. I've posted a much more detailed version here if you have time to read it








I have to wonder…


I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena. I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com







Evinrude58 said:


> Hermit, huh?
> There’s nowhere you’d like to go?
> What do you ENJOY most about life?
> 
> There’s a whole world out there that you can share with your wife. There’s bound to be bits that you’d both find fun and exciting to explore.


Huh... To be honest, I don't really know. I've been working myself down to the bone ever since I was 14. Never had much going for me besides work or school. At one stage, I was juggling full time study with 3 part time jobs. Guess I'm living the asian kid life - all work and no play until the day you die. My first time I've ever took time for vacation purposes was to go on a honeymoon with her. Of course, we've had road trips since then. I do enjoy driving so that works well. I also do love fishing much like you. Not that I've actually caught anything, but there's just something very peaceful about it that I enjoy.



Evinrude58 said:


> My point is, I think you can discover a way to get the fun back with your wife if you put that engineering mind of yours to work on it (not that you haven’t).


Yes, I'll admit it, I've been a cheeky boy. I've devised an experiment on her where I get her to do the cooking for the whole month (up till that stage, I did all the cooking, dishes, home maintenance, cleaning, and shared the rest of the chores for her). I have a theory that she's in a cycle of laziness that's bordering on depression and lack of self-worth. If I can jump start her out, then I will create a system of instability where she gets more and more energetic at each cycle.


Evinrude58 said:


> I’ll think on it if you give us some ideas of things you really enjoy.


Much appreciated. I like building things. Which is not working out too well as I'm in the generation where home ownership is very far out of reach. My dream (if my investment permits) is to buy a house that would have a workshop. Also large enough for me to build a dedicated closed off kitchen with commercial equipment. I can't say I have any actual hobbies though - most of my interest stem from a need. At one point, I was very passionate about spray painting and got pretty good at it because my friend and I had a few dings on our cars and I wanted to repair them. I like building things because there was a need for a certain something. I like fixing things because something broke. I like cooking because I get hungry. Seriously, what's wrong with me? It's almost like I'm only living because I need to survive. There is nothing I like to do 'just for the hell of it'. I guess sex was the only thing. But then again that also stems from a need - I have a very high sex drive!


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## Evinrude58

I can honestly say I’ve never heard of a c-section affecting libedo. My 3 kids were born that way, and I assure you it didn’t affect mine and in her mid thirties it skyrocketed.

Can you work from home?
I ask because after my divorce and a breakup afterward with a woman I adored, I bought a lot a lake and built myself a cabin. I love the place. It got my mind iff Real estate out away from big cities but close to smaller ones is a way to get that workshop and hone you want.
I have a workshop with A car lift and buy/repair/sell cars on the side. And everything else. 
where there is a will, there’s a way. 

3 years no sex? I say get her to a doctor and have her hormones checked. That’s crazy and I’d divorce over it. It’s just not fair and shows apathy toward You.

You love her. Does she love you? Love you like a husband or a brother?


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## stamina

Evinrude58 said:


> I can honestly say I’ve never heard of a c-section affecting libedo. My 3 kids were born that way, and I assure you it didn’t affect mine and in her mid thirties it skyrocketed.
> 
> Can you work from home?
> I ask because after my divorce and a breakup afterward with a woman I adored, I bought a lot a lake and built myself a cabin. I love the place. It got my mind iff Real estate out away from big cities but close to smaller ones is a way to get that workshop and hone you want.
> I have a workshop with A car lift and buy/repair/sell cars on the side. And everything else.
> where there is a will, there’s a way.
> 
> 3 years no sex? I say get her to a doctor and have her hormones checked. That’s crazy and I’d divorce over it. It’s just not fair and shows apathy toward You.
> 
> You love her. Does she love you? Love you like a husband or a brother?


Okay, maybe she is fooling me. She definitely said C-Section causes it. Along with this excuse and that excuse. She's nearing 40, so I wonder if it was a mistake marrying someone 6 years older than me.

During this pandemic, I've been given the privilege of working from home fulltime, but it won't last forever. To get a place that's affordable, I'd need to move to another state completely, and then securing a job becomes an issue. I'm good at my job, but I don't think anyone sees me as inexpendible to justify a long term remote working arrangement.

I would like to take her to the doctors and get her checked out, but I don't see much willingness on her part to play ball. As far as I can tell, she's happy with the things as they are and honestly I don't think she gives a toss that it's making me miserable. She's asked if I wanted a divorce before which I said no, so I don't think she's hesitant to go there. I suggested supplements that make her increase her libido but she says she doesn't want to take any more chemicals in her body.

As with sex, she relents to it more than wants it, which would be her defense if I complain about lack of sex. It would just be a pointless arguement where she goes "I DO give you sex, YOU just don't want it!!". But how to I do the deed if she's just lying there like a dead fish with a clear expression that she wishes to be anywhere else but being there pinned under me? Apparently that's my problem too for not accepting that as the way things will be.

I guess another way to look at this is:
Am I being too picky about wanting to have sex with someone who wants it too?
I'm I being unreasonable for wanting sex as a two-way thing?


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## Evinrude58

You are not wrong at all for wanting whAt most men have— a woman that wants them sexually. What you’ve been doing for three years isn’t working. Don’t let it turn into 30.
You love her. If she never wants sex with you, and doesn’t want to want sex with you, then it’s not really the kind of love you want, is it?

Things won’t change, honestly.
I loved my ex wife, but I had to divorce her because she was being unfaithful and she WANTED a divorce. I didn’t, but had to file and tell her to leave when I found out she wouldn’t stop. It hurt. It hurt bad for about 2 years. I mention it because staying like you’re doing is going to hurt for more years than it would if you divorced. You’re an engineer. Find yourself a little homebody sex kitten that can’t get enough of you. I assure you, they’re out there.


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## stamina

Thanks. I still prefer to work things out with her. I'd hate to see my kid grow up in a broken family though. But the reality is me suffering and I don't want that either. Situation sucks.


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## Jamieboy

Im going to take a stab at this, which you probably won't like but, I see a lot of similarity in your situation to my own. 

Long story short, she is happy with the situation while you are not, however there is no pressure on her to change, I mean why tf would she. You bring home the bacon, do the house work and cooking. She's got it made, because you have straight out told her you don't want divorce.

Now, my story has a happy ending, but you have to be prepared for it end either way.

The problem is simply, respect for you is non existent. The way I dealt with it is to separate from my wife because I told her that, although I loved her, her actions and behaviour did not make me feel loved and despite me asking, she refused to change.

The separation was grudgingly accepted by her because it upset her cushy world. 9 months of being without me combined with me dating someone else put a rocket up her backside.

We got back together after we had firm and open discussions about what I was prepared to accept. She has been a changed woman ever since. We are partners in all senses, she desires me an initiates 90% of the time.

I think it comes down to, she realised she had a good guy and had gotten lazy. When I was out there I was supirsed at how much attention I got. That changed me because honestly I thought I would leave and be alone for the rest of my days.

I realise I may be projecting, but your story resonates with me. 

Ps I'm an engineer too


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## stamina

Thanks for sharing, Jamieboy. Yes, you're right, it sounds identical to what I'm dealing with and I don't like that one bit, but this situation stands whether I like it or not 
That aside, you may feel like you're projecting, but I'd say the fact that you're an engineer as well suggests that we may share quite a few similarities especially when it comes to our psyche which led us both in that horrible situation - we statistically tend to be introverts with the inherent degree of shyness and passiveness about us that prevents us from taking what we want.

So while I do not like your experience to become my own, I realise that I may be unable to escape from the inevitable. And maybe it really might take losing me to realise what she lost. The scary reality is that she might not feel like she lost much. She was quite independent when I found her, and I can't see how she can't get back to being that again.

Kudos to you for making that move, and I am both very impressed and happy for you that things worked out really well.

I'm really glad I found and joined this forum. Even if I don't get a happy ending, at least sharing a load off my mind and knowing that I'm not alone is significant comfort and solace in itself.


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## frenchpaddy

I am by no way an expert , 
my wife had a C-Section twice so that is out the window , 

does she want to have more kids ?
could be she has her kid and has linked having sex with having kids 

some say if you don't use it you loose interest in it so every extra day makes it harder 

it is like as you have to start all over like you are just new people starting to know each other , 
depends on if she is happy with how things are or if both are willing and both know how you feel on this 

there was a time in our time before we had the first that my wife was not interested in sex 
came from a time she was raped 
she was in love with me , but the sex was another side and she was very happy to farm that side out to any one if i was willing to 
she even offered that she would arrange an escort for my birthday , 
I refused and I think I became a more loving husband out of it all 
WE TALKED ABOUT everything even the things she did not want to talk too much about so it would be just 
sometimes tip the ice a little and let it , 
now thinking back maybe just bringing up the subject was enough to let her think it through 

I think a big thing for my wife was two things linked together one that she know I was not going anywhere 
I never did like some and say if you don't I will or could get it outside 
so knowing that her marriage was safe she still loved me just the sex hart was hard for her 
many positions were out for her still are no open legs 

the second part that was important for her was that I gave her the freedom to do as she wanted 
if she wished too do anything she could if she wanted to sleep with any man she could 
total freedom I even offered her that I would give her a male escort as her birthday is not long after my birthday , 

I gave her an open marriage on one side as I had no intention of ever been with another 
and one of the things that I think helped me was I was coming from nothing I had never had sex with another woman 
maybe if I had experience others before may be I would not have been so ready to put my sex life on hold .

she all so gave me my freedom to have an open relationship ,
but it was something that was for some reason more important for her to be free to do what ever she wanted 
she embraced this freedom never used it but it was important to her to be with me because she wanted to and 
not because she had to every day that she was with me was her choose to be 

that worked for her and now the sex life is more than normal , she still has her freedom , 
i think I happened to find the thing that was important to her , as well as been a better lover 
but I only stumbled on it as I was willing to let her play around if it meant that she could get her sex life back , 
I think I was only doing it for the wrong reasons but it worked , for her , 

I CAN NOT SAY IT WOULD WORK FOR ANYONE and don't know how it would work for others ,


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## stamina

frenchpaddy said:


> I am by no way an expert ,
> my wife had a C-Section twice so that is out the window ,
> 
> does she want to have more kids ?
> could be she has her kid and has linked having sex with having kids
> 
> some say if you don't use it you loose interest in it so every extra day makes it harder
> 
> it is like as you have to start all over like you are just new people starting to know each other ,
> depends on if she is happy with how things are or if both are willing and both know how you feel on this
> 
> there was a time in our time before we had the first that my wife was not interested in sex
> came from a time she was raped
> she was in love with me , but the sex was another side and she was very happy to farm that side out to any one if i was willing to
> she even offered that she would arrange an escort for my birthday ,
> I refused and I think I became a more loving husband out of it all
> WE TALKED ABOUT everything even the things she did not want to talk too much about so it would be just
> sometimes tip the ice a little and let it ,
> now thinking back maybe just bringing up the subject was enough to let her think it through
> 
> I think a big thing for my wife was two things linked together one that she know I was not going anywhere
> I never did like some and say if you don't I will or could get it outside
> so knowing that her marriage was safe she still loved me just the sex hart was hard for her
> many positions were out for her still are no open legs
> 
> the second part that was important for her was that I gave her the freedom to do as she wanted
> if she wished too do anything she could if she wanted to sleep with any man she could
> total freedom I even offered her that I would give her a male escort as her birthday is not long after my birthday ,
> 
> I gave her an open marriage on one side as I had no intention of ever been with another
> and one of the things that I think helped me was I was coming from nothing I had never had sex with another woman
> maybe if I had experience others before may be I would not have been so ready to put my sex life on hold .
> 
> she all so gave me my freedom to have an open relationship ,
> but it was something that was for some reason more important for her to be free to do what ever she wanted
> she embraced this freedom never used it but it was important to her to be with me because she wanted to and
> not because she had to every day that she was with me was her choose to be
> 
> that worked for her and now the sex life is more than normal , she still has her freedom ,
> i think I happened to find the thing that was important to her , as well as been a better lover
> but I only stumbled on it as I was willing to let her play around if it meant that she could get her sex life back ,
> I think I was only doing it for the wrong reasons but it worked , for her ,
> 
> I CAN NOT SAY IT WOULD WORK FOR ANYONE and don't know how it would work for others ,


Thanks. That is ... quite a unique experience you have there. One kid is enough for both of us. We used to enjoy sex a lot. I mean, A LOT. And we were using condoms so for us, sex was clearly for pleasure. Then came the kid, and suddenly she said sex was only to get a kid, and afterwards, it's pointless. Broke my heart and I wanted to kill myself right there.


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## frenchpaddy

just goes to show everyone is unique , everyone has a different story , 
and what they say about men and women is crap there is no 
men will run at the first obstacle and that woman are x + y + z 

we are all different and two make it worse you and I would be different with different women 
we bring out something different in the people we are with , 

when your wife said sex was only to get a kid, and afterwards, it's pointless 
that is hard and if that was me I think I would be saying and doing what 
*Jamieboy did and advise *


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## In Absentia

stamina said:


> She was quite independent when I found her, and I can't see how she can't get back to being that again.


Same as my wife. We did separate like Jamieboy did, but nothing came from it. My wife is a fiercely independent woman and she didn't fall for that "trick". That said, we got back together because of the kids, but all I got was duty sex. During separation, she detached from me. So, a cautionary tale.


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## Jamieboy

In Absentia said:


> Same as my wife. We did separate like Jamieboy did, but nothing came from it. My wife is a fiercely independent woman and she didn't fall for that "trick". That said, we got back together because of the kids, but all I got was duty sex. During separation, she detached from me. So, a cautionary tale.


The "trick" as you describe it is an unpleasant judgment on what was a very sad situation for me. I didn't want to separate but I was determined not have my future life terms dictated to me. 

I took control of my life and was prepared for life beyond my marriage. Reconciliation was on my terms and im happy more for my children than myself. 

Reconcile or not life was going to be better. That's the choice that ultimately needs to be made. It's not nice, it was hell, but I know it was the right thing for my self worth.

There was no trick, just an acceptance that life as I knew it was not working for me and change came at a price I was willing to pay.

I needed more and was prepared to go through the hard work and pain to make my life the way I needed it to be.

To the OP, make a choice and then back it, no judgement either way, but don't be paralysed by fear. You owe to yourself and your child to be a good role model, a competent man.

What advice would you give to someone else in your situation? 

There are lots of view points here, soak them up and then use that to inform your decision, safe in the knowledge you have analysed the problem and come up with the optimal solution for you.


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## In Absentia

Jamieboy said:


> The "trick" as you describe it is an unpleasant judgment on what was a very sad situation for me. I didn't want to separate but I was determined not have my future life terms dictated to me.


I apologise. I did put it in inverted commas. I was projecting. My wife did see it as a "trick" and she told me I was blackmailing her. It was a very bad time in my life.


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## Personal

stamina said:


> Situation sucks.


Yep!

That said unless you address your no oral sex, no this, no that sex approach. You will find yourself in the same miserable situation over time no matter who you pick. Since make no mistake, if you suck as a sexual partner, most women won't keep coming back for more of the same drudgery over the long haul.


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## frenchpaddy

Jamieboy said:


> The "trick" as you describe it is an unpleasant judgment on what was a very sad situation for me. I didn't want to separate but I was determined not have my future life terms dictated to me.
> 
> I took control of my life and was prepared for life beyond my marriage. Reconciliation was on my terms and im happy more for my children than myself.
> 
> Reconcile or not life was going to be better. That's the choice that ultimately needs to be made. It's not nice, it was hell, but I know it was the right thing for my self worth.
> 
> There was no trick, just an acceptance that life as I knew it was not working for me and change came at a price I was willing to pay.
> 
> I needed more and was prepared to go through the hard work and pain to make my life the way I needed it to be.
> 
> To the OP, make a choice and then back it, no judgement either way, but don't be paralysed by fear. You owe to yourself and your child to be a good role model, a competent man.
> 
> What advice would you give to someone else in your situation?
> 
> There are lots of view points here, soak them up and then use that to inform your decision, safe in the knowledge you have analysed the problem and come up with the optimal solution for you.


 what I see is that you put your relationship first , you did not care what the family thought or the other mothers of 7 down the street , you put the relationship up for a rethink and let each think of where it was going , 

*In Absentia *wife might have looked on it as a trick blackmail but she still got to think of what life was going to be like just she was happy to lie back and take one for the sake of it a bit like as if she was an escort ,
did they go back together before they should have, Everyone's timeline is different, and some people may need more time than others. "To force reconciliation or reunification before the necessary work has been done is setting a couple up for either further separation or divorce ,You'll know when you know. If a separation is working in favor of reconciliation 
On the other hand, signs that a marriage is headed for divorce usually include an unwillingness to work on the issues that led to the separation.


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## In Absentia

frenchpaddy said:


> *In Absentia *wife might have looked on it as a trick blackmail but she still got to think of what life was going to be like just she was happy to lie back and take one for the sake of it a bit like as if she was an escort ,
> did they go back together before they should have, Everyone's timeline is different, and some people may need more time than others. "To force reconciliation or reunification before the necessary work has been done is setting a couple up for either further separation or divorce ,You'll know when you know. If a separation is working in favor of reconciliation
> On the other hand, signs that a marriage is headed for divorce usually include an unwillingness to work on the issues that led to the separation.


I was only trying to warn the OP that some behaviours can backfire and to be careful.


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## frenchpaddy

In Absentia said:


> I was only trying to warn the OP that some behaviours can backfire and to be careful.


yes i understand that and not trying to be a know all on this , just often others see things we don't see and often others don't know all the game play , 
i just feel it is good to debate all things in an open way with open mind


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## In Absentia

frenchpaddy said:


> yes i understand that and not trying to be a know all on this , just often others see things we don't see and often others don't know all the game play ,
> i just feel it is good to debate all things in an open way with open mind


Absolutely!


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## Jamieboy

In Absentia said:


> I apologise. I did put it in inverted commas. I was projecting. My wife did see it as a "trick" and she told me I was blackmailing her. It was a very bad time in my life.


Its ok dude, sensitive subject for me, im sorry it didn't turn out for you the way it did for me. I dont know your story, but im willing to bet that if nothing else your sense of self worth and empowerment took an uplift.


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## In Absentia

Jamieboy said:


> Its ok dude, sensitive subject for me, im sorry it didn't turn out for you the way it did for me. I dont know your story, but im willing to bet that if nothing else your sense of self worth and empowerment took an uplift.


well, it's a very long story. Let's just say my nightmare is over... not what I wanted, but I look forward to my new life. And it's definitively a sensitive subject for me too. I'm glad it worked for you.


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## Divinely Favored

Evinrude58 said:


> I can honestly say I’ve never heard of a c-section affecting libedo. My 3 kids were born that way, and I assure you it didn’t affect mine and in her mid thirties it skyrocketed.
> 
> Can you work from home?
> I ask because after my divorce and a breakup afterward with a woman I adored, I bought a lot a lake and built myself a cabin. I love the place. It got my mind iff Real estate out away from big cities but close to smaller ones is a way to get that workshop and hone you want.
> I have a workshop with A car lift and buy/repair/sell cars on the side. And everything else.
> where there is a will, there’s a way.
> 
> 3 years no sex? I say get her to a doctor and have her hormones checked. That’s crazy and I’d divorce over it. It’s just not fair and shows apathy toward You.
> 
> You love her. Does she love you? Love you like a husband or a brother?


EXACTLY! C-sections do not kill labido. You doing everything probably hurt her attraction to her maid hubby. Read No More Mr Nice Guy (online download)and Married Man Sex Life Primer to start.


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## romantic_dreamer

stamina said:


> Hi, I started another thread to gather input about sex life after having kids, but I would like to ask you guys for your input on something else if you don't mind.
> 
> After a few years being married, what do you guys actually talk about with one another? Do you guys run dry out of topics like me, and how do you cope with it?
> 
> I'm in a very technical job that won't have anything comprehensible for people outside my field so it's hard to talk about that. Being engineers, all of us are introverts so it's not like we generate office drama of interest to take home at the end of the day.


We talk about everything. We never get bored with each other.


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## ccpowerslave

It sounds like your wife latched herself to a provider and not a lover. I already recommended a couple of books to you in your other thread. They will point you at “No More Mr. Nice Guy” by Glover. Read the other two first.

I have to say though that based on your other thread about connecting with discussions, to me it’s weird to want to be with a woman I couldn’t talk to.

Trying to fill the awkwardness with just sex seems like it would never work unless you’re both super HD which clearly isn’t the case at least for her.


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## Rowan

OP, if you and your wife don't talk and don't do much of anything together, it's possible that she's just entirely emotionally disconnected from you.

It is not at all uncommon for women to need a close emotional connection in order to feel sexual with their long-term partner. If her non-sexual emotional needs go unmet for too long, she loses interest in the sexual connection with her husband. In a similar way, if a man's sexual needs go unmet for too long, he loses interest in the emotional connection with his wife.

Most men get their primary emotional need met through having sex with their partner. Which is probably why you seem to think that just having lots more sex will make your marriage happy again. The problem is, that most women do not get their emotional needs met through having sex. More sex will make you feel close to your wife and happy in your marriage. More sex will most probably not make your wife feel close to you and make her happy in your marriage. Because her emotional needs are different from yours. A relationship based on doing nothing much together besides shagging, as yours seems to have been in the beginning, isn't one that's likely to be very happy for both partners over the long term - because not everyone's needs are being met. 

And that's okay. It's perfectly normal for men and women to have different needs from a relationship. But, it does mean that to have a happy long-term marriage, you two are going to have to figure out ways to meet _both_ of your emotional needs - not just your need for sex. .

Her top needs from you as a partner are likely intimate conversation and non-sexual affection. Your top need from her is probably sex. So, spend time alone together doing date-like things that meet _both_ of your needs. Spend quality time together, go do something fun, have a quiet dinner out together, play games together, make plans for the future together, talk about your hopes and dreams, take a cooking or dance class together, hold hands while you go for a walk and just enjoy each others' company, make love. _Date_ each other. Consistently, several times a week.

Check out "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley if you're interested in learning more.


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## D0nnivain

I can't imagine running out of things to talk about. Current events alone should fill any conversation. The various milestones your child is experiencing plus your hopes, dreams & plans for the kid are all endless subjects. 

I'm glad you made this thread & want to work on your marriage because from what you posted , it seems like your wife is just somebody who lives in your house. She used to give you sex. Now she gave you a child. If she would just give you sex again, you'd be happy as a clam, not talking to her, not caring about her, not interacting with her & being your hermit self who occasionally gets laid. And you wonder why she's not putting out. 

Having a child changes a woman's body. Nearing 40 changes her body. Having a c-section leaves a scar. You are her younger husband who doesn't talk to her or hang out with her. You certainly don't romance her. As a result she feels ugly & that is why she's not interested in sex with you. You think she's lazy & you "tricked" her into cooking for a month. Granted if you previously did all the cooking it's time for her fair share but your methodology leaves a lot to be desired. 

She doesn't need a doctor. She needs a loving husband. Reach her on her level. Try dating her again. Even if you can't go out due to a combo of Covid / lockdowns & having a kid / needing a babysitter, have a candlelight dinner at home after the kid goes to sleep. Take walks together. Give her a massage. Play board games or cards together. Watch TV together. Ask her what she thinks about various things & really listen to her answers. As you break the ice & warm her back up to you, offer a shopping spree for new clothes that flatter her changing shape & surprise her with some lingerie. Start being a team player & lift her up rather than making her feel like she's nothing more than the lady who lives in your house who you expect to service you sexually on your schedule


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## stamina

Rowan said:


> OP, if you and your wife don't talk and don't do much of anything together, it's possible that she's just entirely emotionally disconnected from you.
> 
> It is not at all uncommon for women to need a close emotional connection in order to feel sexual with their long-term partner. If her non-sexual emotional needs go unmet for too long, she loses interest in the sexual connection with her husband. In a similar way, if a man's sexual needs go unmet for too long, he loses interest in the emotional connection with his wife.
> 
> Most men get their primary emotional need met through having sex with their partner. Which is probably why you seem to think that just having lots more sex will make your marriage happy again. The problem is, that most women do not get their emotional needs met through having sex. More sex will make you feel close to your wife and happy in your marriage. More sex will most probably not make your wife feel close to you and make her happy in your marriage. Because her emotional needs are different from yours. A relationship based on doing nothing much together besides shagging, as yours seems to have been in the beginning, isn't one that's likely to be very happy for both partners over the long term - because not everyone's needs are being met.
> 
> And that's okay. It's perfectly normal for men and women to have different needs from a relationship. But, it does mean that to have a happy long-term marriage, you two are going to have to figure out ways to meet _both_ of your emotional needs - not just your need for sex. .
> 
> Her top needs from you as a partner are likely intimate conversation and non-sexual affection. Your top need from her is probably sex. So, spend time alone together doing date-like things that meet _both_ of your needs. Spend quality time together, go do something fun, have a quiet dinner out together, play games together, make plans for the future together, talk about your hopes and dreams, take a cooking or dance class together, hold hands while you go for a walk and just enjoy each others' company, make love. _Date_ each other. Consistently, several times a week.
> 
> Check out "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley if you're interested in learning more.


Hit the nail right on the head. Can't believe I almost missed this reply. Thank you so much. I'll definitely look into that book.

In terms of fulfilling her emotional needs and the suggestions you've listed, we've definitely done (actually most of) that, and pre-lockdown, quite regularly. But that was AFTER I realised there was a problem and started trying to paddle the boat back to the right direction so the damage definitely was done. I still do those things (we have a game we enjoy playing with each other and we like to compete with one another) and it has been a while, but the uncertainty is whether my actions are making an impact. Sometimes it feels like it isn't. Are there telltale signs I can look for as feedback that I'm on the right track at least?


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## Luckylucky

You actually have a lot to talk about. ‘I don’t have hobbies’, but all those things you mentioned here are interesting, your life, the things you tried but didn’t pursue - all of this is the story of you. 

You can be Bill Gates or you can be the person that works at the cafe and makes coffee. The person that makes coffee can talk about the smells, the lonely man that comes every morning, the grumpy woman who is beautiful but ugly in the way she treats the man who makes the coffee. How stale the cakes look by the end of the day. The staff member who always calls in sick on a Monday. How nice the floor cleaner smells. 

Try talking to eachother about eachother? My husband used to be very quiet because he thought he was boring compared to me. But I can listen to him talk about anything and it’s fascinating to me.

There’s a very famous book with a very famous chapter: Anna Karenina. Critics and readers are divided on a particular chapter where a man called Levin goes into great detail about the fields and the work the peasants are doing over several days. Some people recommend skipping the chapter altogether, some people think it’s the greatest chapter of the book.

It’s an epic tale about an illicit affair… yet some of us found more art in the chapter about fields and grass and workers. And others didn’t.

You sell yourself too short, way too short. Just start talking about you, and talk about her and really get to know eachother.


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## gaius

Observing who she is, what her daily routine and experiences are. What she finds interesting. Should give you an idea of what to talk about. 

For example, I was watching my wife open a bottle of wine one day. Noticing the foil was breaking into chunks, I asked her if any of it had ever fell into the bottle. And that spurred a whole conversation on strategy to deal with that. 

Not everyone would find that interesting, but it was something she had thought about and did. Plus brownie points for having the same thought and being observant.


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## Rus47

stamina said:


> Hi, I started another thread to gather input about sex life after having kids, but I would like to ask you guys for your input on something else if you don't mind.
> 
> After a few years being married, what do you guys actually talk about with one another? Do you guys run dry out of topics like me, and how do you cope with it?
> 
> I'm in a very technical job that won't have anything comprehensible for people outside my field so it's hard to talk about that. Being engineers, all of us are introverts so it's not like we generate office drama of interest to take home at the end of the day.


Wife and I are BFF. We talk about *everything*. What we are going to cook for dinner, when and where we are going out to eat. Where are we going next when the plague allows. What is going on with friends we know. I don't work anymore but when I did it was also in a technical field, so we talked about the project currently on my desk, was able to explain it well enough that she understood the concepts and we talked about that. We DID have plenty of office drama and wife n I talked about that. These days we talk a lot about how kids n grandkids are getting along, and about the plague affecting friends and family. Look at old photos and talk about the good times we have enjoyed together. Talk about how blessed we are to still have one another, many of our acquaintances and relatives have lost their spouses.

Really not enough space to write down all we talk about. We talk about *everything*


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## Julie's Husband

I doubt that the cesarean caused lack of libido unless her ovaries were removed or damaged. She could possibly be in menopause, but I'm inclined to agree with Rowan.

From my experience I think you can work on it.

I was a very shy nerd type. Started a rocket club in high school instead of learning how to relate to women. I never learned to flirt and felt I should not "bother" women. No touch. 

Eventually they came after me. Couldn't let a man be "free", I guess. It really blew my mind. They just wanted casual sex so I still didn't learn to flirt or socialize. If I lost Julie at this point I'd be back at square one with learning to initiate an intimate relationship. 

I worked on a XEROX engineering campus for the first 10 years of our marriage with the folks that designed everything that became MacIntosh and Windows. Every machine we had was a prototype.

Julie and I didn't talk computers, but we found plenty to talk about, as Rus47 says. We have an interest in what happens in each other's lives when we are apart during the day, the latest news, her endless "honey do" list, what our daughter was up to with friends, neighbors and school when she was living with us and growing up and now the dog, going to the beach, the garden, logistics of household chores and planning meals and endless other things.

Since menopause Julie is no longer able to have intercourse. We have not had intercourse for almost 25 years. We had a long dry spell in intimacy. Then I was diagnosed with prostate cancer and would be in danger of becoming impotent. We had a couple of incredible conversations and began a new intimacy. I all of a sudden began talking "dirty", something I'd been too straight laced to do before. It always gets girlish giggles and a warm reaction from her.

So we've been through a lot and survived because we BOTH cared.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

stamina said:


> I think this is the part where I probably married the wrong woman. Or shall I say she married the wrong man.
> We don't plan trips together because personally I'm a bit of a hermit. We don't cook together but she does occasionally help me pass the odd items here and there. I find difficulties being a team player and just prefer people to stay out of the way so that I can do a good job. A perfectionist mentality, as my conselor says. Hobbies even less so. To be honest I couldn't even remember how we enjoyed each other before. We just enjoyed each others company I guess. Then we used to have sex a lot so now that's missing, it leaves a large gap. In terms of church, she is definitely less enthused compared to me. She's definitely very passive about it. As in she believes there is a God, and that's about it. If I live stream church, it's not like she'll be jumping onto the couch with me.
> 
> Yes, trying to find some way to reconnect with her, which is why I'm here. And I'm really running out of ideas. I would wish that our connection time was filled with sex like back in the good old days, but this sounds a bit like a chicken and egg problem.


There's no reason you and W can't have a good, frequent, and fulfilling sex life together. Why do you think you can't?


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## jonty30

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> There's no reason you and W can't have a good, frequent, and fulfilling sex life together. Why do you think you can't?


Some people are too different, but the fog of sex can hide this until you fall into routine sex.


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## jonty30

stamina said:


> Hi, I started another thread to gather input about sex life after having kids, but I would like to ask you guys for your input on something else if you don't mind.
> 
> After a few years being married, what do you guys actually talk about with one another? Do you guys run dry out of topics like me, and how do you cope with it?
> 
> I'm in a very technical job that won't have anything comprehensible for people outside my field so it's hard to talk about that. Being engineers, all of us are introverts so it's not like we generate office drama of interest to take home at the end of the day.


I don't know if you can repair this deficit. Not everybody is willing. 
However, one reason why couples fall out of the ability to communicate is because one one of them is not matching the other in terms of growth. 
One partner is much more adventurous in their willing to try and learn new things, but the other doesn't have the mental energy to try and keep up.
It's hard to talk about new things when one partner has nothing new for too long.


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## Benbutton

Last night we spoke about how much the patriots sucked and my tantrums during the game. The apocalypse is upon us.


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## Livvie

Sounds like she wants you as stable provider partner but isn't into you as a husband, at all. 

Also sounds like she has a history of being lazy.

If I were you I'd be considering divorce, so you can go a build a life without her.


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## aaarghdub

Good conversation with curiosity either leads to great experiences, connection and memories. Lackluster conversation without curiosity results in verbal masturbation, no joint experiences and reduced connection. 

Short version: we talk about family, work, her friends, what she read on Facebook or the news, ideas/dreams she has but not how to make them a reality.

Long version: My wife and I used to love road trips because we would talk about a lot of stuff especially future plans. Fast forward 15 years and two kids later and she only prefers to talk about family, work, Facebook or the news. So TBH I have to seek engaging conversation elsewhere. We only go out with her friends and their spouses never mine. With her small bubble, it’s hard for her to relate to a lot of people, especially those she just met. 

I’m a voracious consumer of information and want to know a lot about everything and teach myself a lot. When she started her own mental health practice I threw myself into it and taught myself whatever was need to get it running. She loved how we could talk about her business but eventually showed zero interest in my parts of it so I gave up. She took for granted that I will do my homework to have an engaging conversation but she never has reciprocated. Hence the business went under. So after that I lost interest in her future plans because she’s always disappear when the work starts and I’ve done nearly all the heavy lifting in planning, problem solving and execution. 

My wife is intimacy avoidant so we don’t talk about anything intimate just around it. Anything potentially critical or even honest feedback she considers an attack. With her ADHD, when I bring up stuff it turns into a one-sided conversation which is typical. But also after almost 20 years together, she shows very little curiosity about me or my passions or anything unless she’s getting something out of it. ZERO. The other facet is with the ADHD she is “consistently inconsistent” in that I can’t take her at her word so today’s “we need to do this” is often replaced with something else after I’ve done the homework or vested in it for a sequel to the original conversation. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Justsurviving85

stamina said:


> Okay, maybe she is fooling me. She definitely said C-Section causes it. Along with this excuse and that excuse. She's nearing 40, so I wonder if it was a mistake marrying someone 6 years older than me.
> 
> During this pandemic, I've been given the privilege of working from home fulltime, but it won't last forever. To get a place that's affordable, I'd need to move to another state completely, and then securing a job becomes an issue. I'm good at my job, but I don't think anyone sees me as inexpendible to justify a long term remote working arrangement.
> 
> I would like to take her to the doctors and get her checked out, but I don't see much willingness on her part to play ball. As far as I can tell, she's happy with the things as they are and honestly I don't think she gives a toss that it's making me miserable. She's asked if I wanted a divorce before which I said no, so I don't think she's hesitant to go there. I suggested supplements that make her increase her libido but she says she doesn't want to take any more chemicals in her body.
> 
> As with sex, she relents to it more than wants it, which would be her defense if I complain about lack of sex. It would just be a pointless arguement where she goes "I DO give you sex, YOU just don't want it!!". But how to I do the deed if she's just lying there like a dead fish with a clear expression that she wishes to be anywhere else but being there pinned under me? Apparently that's my problem too for not accepting that as the way things will be.
> 
> I guess another way to look at this is:
> Am I being too picky about wanting to have sex with someone who wants it too?
> I'm I being unreasonable for wanting sex as a two-way thing?


I know I’m late to the conversation but if not too late I want to possibly brighten your outlook. You said your wife is nearing 40. Many women including my wife hits high gear for sex in their early and mid 40’s. We married at age 20 and from around age 25 until she was just over 40 I would say our sex life was ABOVE average for a married couple. The first 4 or 5 years were good sex wise but she was very conservative and grew up in a family where the word SEX was rarely if ever used. 
once she turned 40 and up until around age 50 I would say our sex life was FAR ABOVE average. It was because of me but instead she had somewhat suddenly become much more interested and finally to the point she didn’t mind initiating sex. Then it went on to she didn’t mind waking me up and 2:00 a.m or 3:00 a.m . I never complained at all 😂. I do remember once and once only thinking please just let me sleep. I leave for work at 4:30 a.m. so I have another 2 hours to sleep if you will go back to sleep 😳😂. That though didn’t linger in my mind


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## thunderchad

Bottom line is your wife finds you boring and unattractive. If she didn't, she'd be jumping your bones all the time. Work on yourself. Get in shape, dress better, do fun things. Take her on dates at least once a week. If you were a woman would you want to have sex with a boring hermit? It sounds harsh but you need a reality check. Women don't want to have sex with good Ole reliable Bob. They want to have sex with the fun, cocky Chad. If you work on yourself and become the fun, attractive MAN she wants and she still won't sleep with you then you give her the FM or FU speech.


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