# Yet another post...looking for advice/strategy



## Texansfan (May 8, 2015)

I know I'll sound like a broken record on this site but I'm having similar problems in my marriage and am looking for quick advice on how to approach the situation this weekend. I'll try to be brief. Married for 10, known her for 15 years. Have 2 young children. Just started running the MAP (about a month). I'm making more of an effort to improve us and have been trying to initiate more with my wife and I either get an uncomfortable look, she ignores my advances hoping I won't persist, or she avoids the situation by falling asleep, etc. She also really hasn't done anything for me or anything to improve our relationship...seems like it's been all me. I see two schools of thought on strategy but not sure which is the right approach. She senses something is bothering me and asked me the last couple days but I've been avoiding by saying I'm fine (just being short) cause I really don't know what strategy would be more effective to implement. Saying I'm fine when I'm not is probably the worst thing however. 

Scenario 1: Confront and communicate with my wife about it and explain that I feel like I'm the only one making an effort to improve things and I won't accept it. Upside to confronting is communication between the 2 of us and also appearing dominant (alpha), and that I won't sit back and let it happen. Downside is she may push away further, I don't want to appear needy and that I'm pressuring her into sex, etc.

Scenario 2: Just let it go, act like I don't care and continue to work on running the MAP (and maybe 180), and see where it goes. Upside to this is not pressuring her. Downside is I feel like I'm being a chump by not confronting the situation and being a man. It's very hard to act like nothing is wrong when I'm angry and frustrated inside. Downside is we're also not having sex...I'm trying to increase the frequency because based on MMSLP I'm guessing higher frequency promotes higher frequency.

Anybody know which approach is best right now or does it depend. Would appreciate any advice.

Thanks


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## Texansfan (May 8, 2015)

Anybody have a comment? Was hoping to hear back.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tex,
You got to give more information. 

Did you ever have a strong physical connection? If so, when did it start to fade? 

How often do you initiate? How often does it happen?

And then a baseline:
Does your wife actively want to spend time with you? 
Does she like when you touch/hug her or is that something she associates with you wanting sex?
Are you two still playful/happy with each other? 

She's either not real happy in the bedroom or out of the bedroom, and you ought to have a sense of that. 






Texansfan said:


> Anybody have a comment? Was hoping to hear back.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

2 young children tells me straight off the bat that your wife has probably fallen into the Mommy Trap. Being so totally focused on the kids she has completely forgotten that she once was a hot sexy GF who was totally attracted to her BF and couldn't wait to get married.

Assuming you haven't been a d!ck, and assuming she doesn't have an aversion to sex, what you have left is a distant relationship that is no longer passionate.

I think the worst thing you could do right now is to fight abut sex and instead focus on couple time, exciting couple time, laughing couple time and time out of the house away from the kids.


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## Texansfan (May 8, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> 2 young children tells me straight off the bat that your wife has probably fallen into the Mommy Trap. Being so totally focused on the kids she has completely forgotten that she once was a hot sexy GF who was totally attracted to her BF and couldn't wait to get married.
> 
> Assuming you haven't been a d!ck, and assuming she doesn't have an aversion to sex, what you have left is a distant relationship that is no longer passionate.
> 
> I think the worst thing you could do right now is to fight abut sex and instead focus on couple time, exciting couple time, laughing couple time and time out of the house away from the kids.


You are probably right on this Anon. I think our relationship is distant and definitely without passion. And now it's most likely due to the kids and both of us working full time jobs. However, she has always been a LD person for many of the years we've been together, even before kids. I was stupid because I tolerated it. I should have addressed it many years ago (I mean really address it...not half ass like i did many times) Stretches of 2 months without sex were common but never longer than 3 months. I think handling it based on your recommendation is the right move right now...but I do tend to screw up sometimes and get angry because of the frustration. And this sets us back a bit.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm sorry, I'm being an idiot....what is MAP?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Without kids - before kids - going 2 months without sex was common. 

That makes the odds of resolving this low. 

Because I don't believe this is really about sex. It's about being honest with yourself and each other. A non existent sex life is simply a casualty of that lack of honesty. 

And just to be 100% clear on this. I'm not suggesting that either of you is lying to the other. You might not be. 

But whatever your issues are - and they are big - have been avoided for a long, long time. 





Texansfan said:


> You are probably right on this Anon. I think our relationship is distant and definitely without passion. And now it's most likely due to the kids and both of us working full time jobs. However, she has always been a LD person for many of the years we've been together, even before kids. I was stupid because I tolerated it. I should have addressed it many years ago (I mean really address it...not half ass like i did many times) Stretches of 2 months without sex were common but never longer than 3 months. I think handling it based on your recommendation is the right move right now...but I do tend to screw up sometimes and get angry because of the frustration. And this sets us back a bit.


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## Texansfan (May 8, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Without kids - before kids - going 2 months without sex was common.
> 
> That makes the odds of resolving this low.
> 
> ...


Mem, can I ask you to elaborate, dishonest about what?...how we really feel about each other or something else? That has been my concern and I asked her repeatedly (now more than I have done in the past) to be open and honest about what is going on inside her head but she is not a very good communicator. We have recently started seeing an MC but I can tell she is uncomfortable going and talking. 

During the week is crazy for both of us with work and running around with kids. I don't use this as an excuse but it could be legit for her...she does say it's part of the reason and she does seem exhausted. 

Why do you say that resolving this is low? Just curious. I ask this because sometimes I think is it really worth it for me to put all this effort in if things won't get better. It's exhausting. It seems that I'm putting all the effort in and thinking about it while she is doing little to work on it.

Thx.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

Tell us more details about how/when you try to initiate sex. 
How often do you initiate? Has your frequency of initiation changed? How often does she accept or reject? Has her frequency of rejection changed?

Paint the scene of a typical initiation - what time of day? what has been going on before hand? what (exactly) do you say and do? what (exactly) does she say and do? how do you react to what she says/does?

When you DO have sex, does she enjoy it? And how do you know?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tex,

Does your wife actively want to spend time with you? 
Does she like when you touch/hug her or is that something she associates with you wanting sex?
Are you two still playful/happy with each other? 

She's either not real happy in the bedroom or out of the bedroom, and you ought to have a sense of that.[/QUOTE]


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Tex I hate to tell you this my man but barring some physical cause like low level hormones, etc., its a lost cause. For every example you show me of a woman or man that regained the lost desire for their spouse, I'll show you an example of someone winning $100 million+ in the lotto. Some folks are like flares that burn a relatively long time. Others are like bottle rockets that are spectacular for a short time and quickly burn out.
Its like the great Dr. Sigmund Freud said to a patient when she asked if he knew of a cure for her nymphomania. He said, "Yes, get married".


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Without kids - before kids - going 2 months without sex was common.
> 
> That makes the odds of resolving this low.


I would throw the honesty flag only if the LD in question was asked point blank about her rationale for lack of intimacy and she put up a smokescreen. 

After all my wife is honest when she proclaims "people our age don't have sex ". She really believes it. 

If you two had the talk and she owns up to it that's one thing, but if she dodges the issue time after time it's quite another.

The odds are low as MEM wisely said, so I would continue with professional intervention before even thinking of DIY tools.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

She's always been LD, you said. It's extremely unlikely that this will change. Which leads to ...

Scenario 3: Divorce.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

If you don't talk about it nothing will get solved. How about Scenario 3 Talk to her about it in a nice way. I love you, I want to be closer to you I want us to have sex more often because I love making love to you and it makes me feel closer to you which makes our marriage happier. That doesn't put pressure on her but gets across the point that you want more sex with her.

I'm not sure it will work but she senses something is going on and I think you should talk to her about it and as a women I would respond more if my husband said this to me instead of being demanding about the topic.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

What the group is saying about being honest is accepting what she is saying through words and deeds. She is saying to "I am not interested in sex," and you are interpreting that as "if I change, trying a different tactic, run a MAP or whatever, then maybe she'll change her mind." It's a maddening path.

She is being clear. What you are not being clear about with her is how you feel. You're dancing around her, as if her vagina is the sun, and you are in orbit around it. I think you'd be better off telling her: "Babe, you are being clear with me about not wanting sex, that doesn't really work for me. So, if I'm doing something that is alienating you or you have an ideas on what we can do to change these dynamic, I'm willing to change. But if you feel this is a permanent situation, then I'm going to have to reconsider my options. I'm not willing to be celibate for the rest of my life."


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Personally I think you have to look at how hot the sex was before marriage or before kids. That's where the bar is set because that's when a couple is the most attracted to each other, at the beginning of the relationship. I think it's really rare for the sex to get beyond that bar. From your posts it doesn't sound like the sex was that great and she's also LD. You can only change you, you can't change her, only she can. You need to find out if she's willing.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Saw you post in another thread that you suspect infidelity, why?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How did she get pregnant with such low frequency?

How is the MAP working?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm sorry, I'm being an idiot....what is MAP?


It's from No More Mr. Nice Guy. 

My understanding is that it's plan or map that a guy create to stop being Nice Guys, get more sex, etc.

Here is a link to something on it:

My MAP in review- Feedback welcome - Married Man Sex Life Forum


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Two basic approaches. 

Rekindle the passion

1. Work on improving your relationship. See her as a whole person. 

2. Try to create situations to rekindle her passion. Women are contextual which can be hard for men to understand. Try to schedule a weekend or night alone. 

3. Look at what is stressing in her life. 

Discussion at the right time. 

1. Imagine someone calls you in June offering to sell you a snow-blower that can work on the spot, and calls, and calls. He' annoying, but if he calls at the right time, in the midst of a 12 inch snow in Dec you may be interested. Stop bothering her about sex. See if there is something she wants, such as to go over her parents on a Friday night and then cancel and explain that you are just not in the mood (you wish you were, it's not her fault, you are just not in the mood). Place your sex life in the context of your overall relationship, otherwise she says, sorry, it's not you, it's me, you wouldn't want me to pretend to be interested, now that we have gotten over that, let's discuss this $40,000 kitchen renovation. 

2. Work on your physical appearance. Go out and be more independent. Be more distant, less predictable

3. You want to have your sex discussion at a time and place where she wants to address overall problems in the marriage. 
The approach that does not work

1. Keep bothering her.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Hit the gym. Kick butt at work. Be the most attractive you there is.

Then do what is advised above. Be honest. Do your MAP / 180.

If she isn't willing to work on the sex (and many people who were LD before kids are not - which is why some posters correctly point out that the odds of ANYTHING working are low), then you have a difficult choice to make.

There is no magic wand. Stop focusing on her. She is taking care of her. You take care of you. I know you wanted a "we take care of each other" marriage, but she has made it clear that is not the marriage you are in. See if she is willing to rethink once you show her what it means for her after you buy into her view of marriage.


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## Texansfan (May 8, 2015)

I know where you are going with this Chaparral. Yes, I did have a test to ensure they are mine. They are....whew. Frequency was lower but not nonexistent. Probably more luck than anything that she got pregnant from the times we did it.


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## Texansfan (May 8, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Saw you post in another thread that you suspect infidelity, why?


It's a long story but bottom line is it is possible it happened or is happening but I have no concrete evidence. I know that would be a game changer in this thread if it is true but I'm going with the fact that it did not happen as I continue to monitor. Obviously, if it did happen, my questions in my OP are pointless given I would know the reasons why she is acting the way she is right now. But for now I'm goin with the approach that her underlying reasons for low intimacy, not putting in much effort, etc. is NOT due to an affair. Of course you may see my naive arse eventually in the CWI thread but I hope not.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Texansfan said:


> It's a long story but bottom line is it is possible it happened or is happening but I have no concrete evidence. I know that would be a game changer in this thread if it is true but I'm going with the fact that it did not happen as I continue to monitor. Obviously, if it did happen, my questions in my OP are pointless given I would know the reasons why she is acting the way she is right now. But for now I'm goin with the approach that her underlying reasons for low intimacy, not putting in much effort, etc. is NOT due to an affair. Of course you may see my naive arse eventually in the CWI thread but I hope not.



Woah, slow down there bub.

Didn't you say above that your wife has NEVER had a very strong sex drive? That you two never had sex very frequently?

Just so I'm clear...
You DO romance your wife often, right? 
You DO flirt with her through out the day, right? 
You do frequently say nice things to her and compliment her, right? 
You do frequently give her nonsexual affection, right? 
You DO spend lots of 1:1 time with her talking about things other than kids, home and work, right?
You do make moves to seduce her, right? You woo her and court her, right?
When you get down to initiating, it is with a bit of sexual confidence, right? 
When you two do have sex, she orgasms most every time, right?

Don't go looking for a red herring. If your wife has no sex drive and never has had a sex drive what makes you think she's boinking another man? This makes no sense at all.


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