# Need your opinion on what to do next



## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

I am a 33 year old Australian born girl with an Indian background who is married to a 37 year ols Indian guy who has lived in Australia for the last 15 years. I come from the big city of Sydney and he is from a small town in Punjab (north India). We have been together for 12 years, married for 4.5. Overall he has a good personality however we have cultural differences also due to the differences in how we were raised (big city vs small town, India vs Australia, I come from an educated family whereas he does not) which have often caused problems in communication and how we should live our lives (eg he’s not big on dining out, has not in the past understood my need for travel). I deem myself fairly sophisticated and have a western outlook/taste in most things whereas he’s a bit crass with his speech, simple kind of guy who is fairly immersed in Punjabi culture and has no close western friends. His strong qualities are that he is loyal, hands on/action orientated, ambitious and family centric. For the last 3 years, he has wanted a child however at that time we were not financially stable and did not own our house. Now we have all that and have travelled extensively also, so from a practical standpoint we are ready and I am coming around after facing a lot of upset and anger from his end due to not having a child. I also know we are not getting younger. I have wanted a child ideally but with him there exists an issue which holds me back which is something I cannot diagnose. It is an easily-irritable personality which results in quick and loud outbursts and also is quick to calm. If I do something that irritates or upsets him, he has a flare up. Maybe around 1-2 times a week give or take. During these outbursts he can say some very mean things and also sometimes raises divorce as an ultimate solution. I understand he is really pained about not having a child by now and I try and explain that as the mother my level of sacrifice will be higher and he needs to be patient and let me get to the point where I am ready instead of being frustrated, but he doesn’t fully agree with this. He keeps saying he has anxiety however I don’t know if it’s that, a mood disorder, digestive issues, generalised anger issues or something else. He told me his Dad had quite a temper up till around 15 years ago and has mellowed down since. I wouldn’t label him as abusive but he has a strong and direct personality and is not the type of guy who is romantic or pays me compliments or even asks how my day is going. Rather he is the practical hands on partner who will help me through actions, do the dishes and so on. Of the four personality types he is closest to type A (the Director) and I am closest to type B (the Socialiser) as per a marriage counsellor we were saying. So yes we saw a counsellor on and off but didn’t help too much. She did say I have some anxiety so I have been taking a supplement since she told me and feeling much better, anxiety is under control. Also it has helped my marriage because I can control my emotions better. My main issue with him are these outbursts/irritability he has. It sometimes comes out in front of friends in the form of direct speech (like eg he says my full name and gives me a task in an assertive/irritable manner with my friends watching) which is embarrassing for me. I have mentioned for him not to speak to me like that however he forgets and it also seems it’s not within his control. He gave me a solution for the issue saying, he will give me a warning when he’s feeling irritable/ heated and I just need to stop talking or give him some space for a minute or so to calm down. I have implemented this only sometimes because other times I am just too frazzled or upset following an outburst to control myself. He finally said the reason he is the way he is on this is because he has extreme pent up frustration due to not having a child. I suspect it could also be a bit of resentment. But it’s a catch 22 because I’m scared this irritability/anger outbursts will continue whilst I am pregnant and will get me stressed. Also it has reduced my respect/feelings for him so our sex life has taken a bit of a hit. Last night he said has lost his life because of his decision to be with me. We live in a million dollar house, both on high incomes, we have 2 dogs, are healthy and have both sets of parents still around and some great friends. But somehow he repeatedly overlooks all this and says he has nothing. I feel overwhelmed when he says such things. He also mentioned divorce last night and said the reason he said it is because he felt attacked by me talking about his outbursts and posed it as an ultimate solution. This is despite marriage counsellor telling him he should never bring up the D word during an argument. Regarding the first solution he offered, I told him last night I was happy to try harder to implement this “give him some space” once he warns me he is triggered strategy. I then mentioned that I want him to come with me to the doctor/naturopath to get his issue sorted out but he said I making having a child conditional. He didn’t seem keen although we haven’t spoken yet today. Despite the fight last night happening in front his friend which left me embarrassed, I made him a coffee this morning before starting work. He has a strong personality so he never really ever is soft with me. He usually just goes on the offence. He’s not a bad guy, he is nice especially as a friend but just majorly in this behavioural way I’m finding it hard to work with it. I’m embarrassed that after 12 years together we’ve never really had a long peaceful happy time. Our relationship has been consistently been fraught with problems but I feel one of the core reasons is this behavior issue.
Sorry for this super long essay but I just wanted you all to get somewhat of a good picture of what’s been happening. I would appreciate some advice on what to do next. My ideal would be that I stay in this marriage and it is working smoothly filled with love. Not sure if that is a possibility at this stage.
Thanks to everyone in advance and hope you all have a wonderful day.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

congratulations on a very full and fair expiation on both your life ,
It is hard when you live in a different country with different cultures.
I live in France and when people say it must be hard to have to deal with people in a different langue i have all ways said the biggest difference is the culture . and after living here now so long we still have strong culture differences but all so do not fit in at home when we go back to Ireland ,

I expect the same is true now for your husband 
If he went home to Punjab he would not fit in and he would think their life was to far from what he has gotten used to 

It seems to be your curators that are the biggest difference 
husband seems to have anger management issues, which bounce off or impact on your curator

you say it is starting to impact on your sex life , I would expect so 
the big question is can you see your self getting to the point of having children with this man 
you talked about your family and his family are around , 
was the marriage arranged , 
if you were to divorce how will they react , will they put your happiness first 

it is good that he was open enough to go to MC with you and talk to someone about what differences you have 
again the councilor would have to deal with culture differences all so 

look at your self in say 10 years if you stay in this marriage , 
and look all so if you get out and go your own way


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Welcome to TAM @Sunny777 

DO NOT have a child right now. Children do not fix martial problems!

And you have a boatload of problems! Why did you marry someone with such a vastly different outlook on life than your own?

Despite your cultural issues you seem to have found some happy medium. However, his short temper with you 1-2 times per week is NOT ok! Embarrassing you in front of friends is NOT ok! Saying how he wasted his life with you is not ok! Do not have children with him!

In my opinion, you should get him into individual counseling specifically for anger management. It should be a condition of you staying with him. If he does not go, do not stay in this marriage.

Forget about the reasons he has for being this way, it doesn’t matter. You do not want your child grow up with this behavior as the example for how he/she should be. And you should not subject yourself to the rest of your life with this behavior. No one deserves to be treated poorly in this way.

Even if h has high frustration about having a baby, he should deal with that in a kind and gentle manner toward you. Not with anger.

Best of luck to you, I hope he can work with you and get these issues resolved!


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

In a few words, get out of this relationship. Why you're still in it is beyond me. You mention "love" at the end, but as an abstract, something you would like in the relationship. 

You can't force love. You will not find it in this relationship. End it.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

So you dated for 7.5 years before you married. You knew exactly how he was before you married him; knew all about the differences and yet, you married him anyway. Now, here you are complaining. This one is on you.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

Hi everuone




frenchpaddy said:


> congratulations on a very full and fair expiation on both your life ,
> It is hard when you live in a different country with different cultures.
> I live in France and when people say it must be hard to have to deal with people in a different langue i have all ways said the biggest difference is the culture . and after living here now so long we still have strong culture differences but all so do not fit in at home when we go back to Ireland ,
> 
> ...


Hi there frenchpaddy
Thanks so much for reading through my essay and taking the time to respond!
Our marriage was not arranged. I’m a pretty Aussie girl and wouldn’t go for that sort of thing. We met on a dating site.
Can I ask what you mean by “our curators” being different?
Yes he definitely doesn’t fully fit in to the Indian ethos anymore since he’s been out of India for so long, but he’s still fairly Indian. Indeed I’m thinking about all things long term because I’m still young but also conscious of my fertility starting to decrease.
Thanks again and have a great day!


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Wow, you sure must have missed all the red flags BEFORE you married him.

His anger issues and outbursts ARE NOT going to cease because you have his offspring. In fact, they might become worse because HIS child will take a lot of your time away from him.

You really need to evaluate whether you want to remain on this same path with him long term. You are young and very pretty and can do so much better IMHO.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Welcome to TAM @Sunny777
> 
> DO NOT have a child right now. Children do not fix martial problems!
> 
> ...


Hi beyondrepair
How we ended up together was very strange. I met him on a dating site when I was 21 and had come out of a terrible relationship. We became friends and he soon told me he would lose his ability to stay in Australia as he wasn’t getting enough points to get his PR. I felt really sorry for him and we had a court marriage so I could help him stay in the country. It’s a long story but I had pretty low self esteem and self worth at the time due to the bad relationship I had just come out of. I moved from Sydney to Melbourne to get some freedom and moved in with him and only a few people knew at the time we had had a court marriage. It didn’t mean much for me, I saw us as dating with view to have a proper wedding down the track. I saw his first outburst at around the 1 year mark and I knew something was wrong. I told him to get help but he put it down to work stress. We have been through some really tough times together including severe financial hardship. I guess we were somewhat bound together due to the hard times we had and the history. I kept saying to myself that there must be a reason why we have been brought together, maybe it’s meant to be. Four months before our proper wedding I was nervous about proceeding and I told him I want him to go for anger management. He said he can fix things himself and doesn’t need to go. He now thinks it’s anxiety and I can see that he does not know how to manage stress. Somehow he got away with this irritability and we are now at almost 12 years together and still not fully happily married. 
I need to tell you something really important which I initially didn’t say. The reason we saw a marriage counsellor was because I had something with my coworker back in late 2018. It wasn’t a full fledged affair because we never had sex. We made out a whole bunch though - lasted less than 2 months. This happened approx 8-9 months after our proper wedding because of the behavior issue plus he had no time for me after we got married due to starting new work. He lost it when he found out, understandably. I regret pursuing that avenue and I would never even actually date the guy I had the fling with but it was my coping mechanism for deep unhappiness at the time. I would never do it again. I tried to explain why I did it but he wasn’t really understanding that it was partly due to this behaviour issue. He thought it was other things. Hence we started MC. MC thinks he is the way he is due to being type A Director personality also mixed with potential digestive issues causing irritability and stress. We didn’t go into it very far because it was on and off due to the lockdowns.
I know that we have problems but a lot of my friends also have problems. They just make it work and would call themselves overall happily married. I wish I could make it work but sometimes I think he doesn’t love me very much because of a connection issue due to both cultural differences and also the infidelity. I’m fully aware that sometimes infidelity can damage a marriage forever. After the fling I suffered in the marriage because he wasn’t treating me very well which I completely understand why. For the last year he hasn’t mentioned the fling and tells me he is over it. Perhaps not at a subconscious level though.
He has told me once in the past that his need for a baby is somewhat linked to feeling insecure in the marriage. I’m sure part of him wants to cement the relationship between us through a child but the main part is that he has a huge desire to be a dad. All his friends have kids. Most of my friends don’t yet.
I wonder if this changes your perspective at all.

I will also add that when I said 1/2 a week, I don’t mean a yelling spree each time. I mean more of a short irritable outburst like annoyance but loud.In saying that, yelling and swearing is very easy for him. He swears casually in normal speech and he knows I don’t like it. He yells maybe once every 2nd week.
You are right that I should not have a baby until he makes progress on the behaviour front. Part of me thinks maybe he’s love a girl from India more due to similar culture, and another part of me wonders whether the short and non serious fling I had with no sex has permanently affected this marriage which is why he can’t really be more loving towards me. I’m also conscious of my fertility reducing and not sure how I can convince him to seek professional help. Would it be that I tell him we can start trying after a month ask him to come with me to Dr/naturopath/individual counselling ASAP or once we start trying? I don’t think he can wait past a month to start trying for a baby.
Thanks again for reading all of this and have the patience and kindness to respond.
Have a great day!


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

Diceplayer said:


> So you dated for 7.5 years before you married. You knew exactly how he was before you married him; knew all about the differences and yet, you married him anyway. Now, here you are complaining. This one is on you.


Hi there
Thanks for your unhelpful message. Instead of asking me to clarify, you made some giant assumptions.


Rob_1 said:


> In a few words, get out of this relationship. Why you're still in it is beyond me. You mention "love" at the end, but as an abstract, something you would like in the relationship.
> 
> You can't force love. You will not find it in this relationship. End it.


Hi Rob
Thanks so much for your patience in responding.
If you have some time, do you mind reading my response to Beyondrepair? I have explained a lot of things I couldn’t in my initial post. I want to know if it changes your opinion.
There was love and there still is. After having been together for 12 years it’s more of a care factor that defines the love. The “in love” went awhile back. I do doubt how much he loves me because sometimes I think he would connect better with an Indian girl and also my fling may have permanently affected his feelings for me although he denies this. I think finding relationships where you’re in love after 12 years is a rarity and the love becomes a verb and a choice you make each day, to care for and support each other.
Please let me know any further thoughts you might have.
Thanks


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sunny777 said:


> Hi beyondrepair
> How we ended up together was very strange. I met him on a dating site when I was 21 and had come out of a terrible relationship. We became friends and he soon told me he would lose his ability to stay in Australia as he wasn’t getting enough points to get his PR. I felt really sorry for him and we had a court marriage so I could help him stay in the country. It’s a long story but I had pretty low self esteem and self worth at the time due to the bad relationship I had just come out of. I moved from Sydney to Melbourne to get some freedom and moved in with him and only a few people knew at the time we had had a court marriage. It didn’t mean much for me, I saw us as dating with view to have a proper wedding down the track. I saw his first outburst at around the 1 year mark and I knew something was wrong. I told him to get help but he put it down to work stress. We have been through some really tough times together including severe financial hardship. I guess we were somewhat bound together due to the hard times we had and the history. I kept saying to myself that there must be a reason why we have been brought together, maybe it’s meant to be. Four months before our proper wedding I was nervous about proceeding and I told him I want him to go for anger management. He said he can fix things himself and doesn’t need to go. He now thinks it’s anxiety and I can see that he does not know how to manage stress. Somehow he got away with this irritability and we are now at almost 12 years together and still not fully happily married.
> I need to tell you something really important which I initially didn’t say. The reason we saw a marriage counsellor was because I had something with my coworker back in late 2018. It wasn’t a full fledged affair because we never had sex. We made out a whole bunch though - lasted less than 2 months. This happened approx 8-9 months after our proper wedding because of the behavior issue plus he had no time for me after we got married due to starting new work. He lost it when he found out, understandably. I regret pursuing that avenue and I would never even actually date the guy I had the fling with but it was my coping mechanism for deep unhappiness at the time. I would never do it again. I tried to explain why I did it but he wasn’t really understanding that it was partly due to this behaviour issue. He thought it was other things. Hence we started MC. MC thinks he is the way he is due to being type A Director personality also mixed with potential digestive issues causing irritability and stress. We didn’t go into it very far because it was on and off due to the lockdowns.
> I know that we have problems but a lot of my friends also have problems. They just make it work and would call themselves overall happily married. I wish I could make it work but sometimes I think he doesn’t love me very much because of a connection issue due to both cultural differences and also the infidelity. I’m fully aware that sometimes infidelity can damage a marriage forever. After the fling I suffered in the marriage because he wasn’t treating me very well which I completely understand why. For the last year he hasn’t mentioned the fling and tells me he is over it. Perhaps not at a subconscious level though.
> ...


Thanks for the clarification and extra details.

Does it change my perspective? No.

I understand that your infidelity it’s probably a cause for his behavior, and you can understand emotional outbursts in the time following DDay.

But that should not become a way of life. You are correct that your infidelity may have destroyed your marriage and it will never heal. It could end even now.

I stand by my assertion that you should not allow yourself to be treated with anger as a normal state of marriage. And most certainly do not even _consider_ children until he is healing from this.

In your response you want to consider ‘trying’ if he will start therapy. Please consider if the therapy fails. Do not put yourself in that position.

One thing at a time.

Deal with his anger. Resolve any lingering issues from infidelity. Be happily married. _Then_ bring a vulnerable new life into that happiness. Not before.

Good luck.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

ah_sorandy said:


> Wow, you sure must have missed all the red flags BEFORE you married him.
> 
> His anger issues and outbursts ARE NOT going to cease because you have his offspring. In fact, they might become worse because HIS child will take a lot of your time away from him.
> 
> You really need to evaluate whether you want to remain on this same path with him long term. You are young and very pretty and can do so much better IMHO.


Hi there ah_sorandy
I hope you are doing really well. Thanks so much for having the patience and kindness to respond.
I saw the red flags. I asked him to take action. He took half actions (watching YT videos on how to manage stress and anger) but didn’t seem professional help perhaps due to sti


ah_sorandy said:


> Wow, you sure must have missed all the red flags BEFORE you married him.
> 
> His anger issues and outbursts ARE NOT going to cease because you have his offspring. In fact, they might become worse because HIS child will take a lot of your time away from him.
> 
> You really need to evaluate whether you want to remain on this same path with him long term. You are young and very pretty and can do so much better IMHO.


Hi ah_sorandy
Hope you are really well. Thanks so much for having the patience and kindness to read and respond.
My response to Beyondrepair provides a lot of context and insight if you wouldn’t mind taking a look. I agree I cannot bank on things changing after baby and then my baby will have to witness it and will not understand what a healthy loving relationship looks like and this can cause issues when they are older and looking for love themselves.
Thanks so much for saying I am young and pretty. But I’m conscious of my fertility declining and don’t want to go through IVF because I have a friend who has gone through it and would not recommend it to her worst enemy apparently. Also I don’t even know if I will be able to find someone suitable for me long-term if I get divorced because I know a lot of people that are still single after getting divorced and also I know a few people that found someone after mini mini years. I’m not getting any younger and I feel like the pool of potential people I could be was long-term we would use as a grow older. Again I’m not saying that I want to settle and tolerate what’s happening but I’m wondering if there’s a way I can be negotiate him getting professional help and us trying for a baby. Of course I sometimes doubt if he loves me deeply due to what has happened in the past and perhaps our cultural differences causing some connection issues. Sometimes I think he might have mild ADHD because he struggles to look into my eyes each time we speak, also gets distracted easily and I want him to get tested for that also.
Divorce would be a hard thing because we have a house and pets together and my parents absolutelh love him. We just sold another property we had so should get the cash in a few months. Problem is property prices are starting to decline in the next few years so ideally I wouldn’t want to sell the house we live in until 2024. I guess it’s silly talking about property considering the other issues.
I have seriously considered divorce in the past and he has as well. At one point he actually printed out the papers and wanted me to fill them out and sign. Somehow we always end up coming back and talking through things.
Thanks again for your help and advice


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

If you get divorced, would your husband be deported? What affect would having a baby be on his residency? 

You got together so he could stay in your country. In the US, that constitutes immigration fraud. He likes to treat you as a servant in front of friends. This guy is not a good candidate for marriage to you. Maybe, he will make an Indian girl a good husband.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

But but... do you love him?


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Thanks for the clarification and extra details.
> 
> Does it change my perspective? No.
> 
> ...


Hi beyondrepair

Thanks so much. Everything you have said makes sense. It’s just so hard to negotiate this with him because he’s so desperate for a child. I can most certainly try. Since Sunday when we had the fight, we haven’t spoken about our marriage as yet. We are just exchanging one line statements and staying apart a bit to avoid conflict. I plan to speak to him by friday.

If he says to me, ok I’ll seek professional help for my anger issues only once we start trying (because he thinks we will never start trying), should I then call it quits?
Best case scenario would be that he agrees and we book in appointments for him next week. Realistically though I suspect he will not be up for it because he’s lost that “soft corner” for me which would make him acquiesce more easily. 
I can only try my best. If he doesn’t agree and our next steps will be to initiate divorce, it will be really hard. Not only due to our property and financial investments but also because my Dad has lung cancer and I’d hate to give him bad news because he loves my husband. I can just do my best and rest is up to the Supreme right.
Thanks so much again


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sunny777 said:


> Hi beyondrepair
> 
> Thanks so much. Everything you have said makes sense. It’s just so hard to negotiate this with him because he’s so desperate for a child. I can most certainly try. Since Sunday when we had the fight, we haven’t spoken about our marriage as yet. We are just exchanging one line statements and staying apart a bit to avoid conflict. I plan to speak to him by friday.
> 
> ...


I am not an advocate for divorce, I think people and marriages are worth a lot of effort to make things right.

In your situation though, you should not compromise on this point. You absolutely can NOT have a child brought into a home with anger issues. Please guard your future baby’s life and emotional stability!

Therefore if he will not work with you to make a happy marriage _first_, then you should not stay. Nothing about divorce is easy; it’s a terrible thing for everyone. But the life you are having now is also not good and adding a baby to that will only make things harder.

You don’t want to be 10 or 20 years from now and be unhappy with a troubled child and an abusive husband (assuming he will escalate at some point). Do the hard work now to prevent that future.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> If you get divorced, would your husband be deported? What affect would having a baby be on his residency?
> 
> You got together so he could stay in your country. In the US, that constitutes immigration fraud. He likes to treat you as a servant in front of friends. This guy is not a good candidate for marriage to you. Maybe, he will make an Indian girl a good husband.


Hi Blondilocks

Thanks so much for your response.
Let me clarify a few things for you.
It is not immigration fraud because I willingly out of friendship and care had a court marriage with him to help him acquire his permanent residency. He got his Australian citizenship around 5 years ago. Also let me clarify that he doesn’t quite treat me like that in front of friends. I mean he also massages my feet, serves me food and kisses me in front of friends. It’s just sometimes when he asks me to do something or help him, he’s too direct. He also sometimes fights with me in front if his friends and I hate that.
I am aware some men in India are mysoginistic however he is not one of those. He frequently cleans, gets groceries, does dishes and cooks once in awhile. He understands I am Aussie and has even told me that his mentality has changed a lot as well since he moved here. Back in India he frequently supports his mum especially when she had surgery. He has a great relationship with his sister who was the pampered one in the family. I guess my comment about the Indian girl was that he would probably connect better with one due to cultural similarities.

thanks again for your response.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I am not an advocate for divorce, I think people and marriages are worth a lot of effort to make things right.
> 
> In your situation though, you should not compromise on this point. You absolutely can NOT have a child brought into a home with anger issues. Please guard your future baby’s life and emotional stability!
> 
> ...


Dear BeyondRepair
Thanks for your response again. I really appreciate you knocking some sense into me because sometimes I feel lost as to what next steps I should take. Previously I used to engage my parents however that is not really an option anymore as I don’t want to give them more stress.
I have a different question for you. What percentage of people have you seen who get divorced and find another marriage partner within 2 years of their divorce? One of my best friends is 45 and has never been married and cannot find a boyfriend, she has been engaged in the past. We are very different but I am worried I will never find someone and I know how lonely she is and she tells me how awful it is not having anyone there and how terrible her experience on dating apps have been. Somehow I don’t think my situation is worse than hers.
I will discuss getting help with him and will hold off trying for a baby until healing has been done.
Thanks again


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

We still don't know if you really love your husband... you said you married him because he could stay in Australia. But did you love him or you just felt sorry for him and you married him? Your description of your husband sounds a bit "matter of fact"...


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> But but... do you love him?


I do love him but I’m not in love with him.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> We still don't know if you really love your husband... you said you married him because he could stay in Australia. But did you love him or you just felt sorry for him and you married him? Your description of your husband sounds a bit "matter of fact"...


I think you hit something there. I don’t actually remember being in love but I do remember many happy times in the beginning. I love him in that I care for him and want to see him happy…


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@Sunny777 I read all of your replies to the forums members and mine. Having said that, I think that it's really up to you how you want to live your life. But, so far even with your very concise explanations, to me (that's me, based on your responses) what I'm reading is basically, justifications. Justifications, to continue in a relationship where although there might be some friendship and care, it seems that it's not what you really want, but are settling due to your perceived justifications, to the situation, friends, family.

You might stay and have kids with him, but will you be truly really happy in it? will you wake up in the mornings next to him and look at him and smile, or it will give you more thoughts of was I right by choosing to stay?

If you are asking these questions, then something is not right. Let's not even talk about love, but compatibility, It seems that you two are really not compatible in various fronts, such as culture, temperament, outlook in life, etc., You can love someone, but if there's not compatibility, then you're setting yourself for failure or a life of regrets. That's my take. It really is up to you what you are willing to put up with and compromise.

Just read your last post. If you are not "in love" with him then, you are living a lie, a make believe relationship. that's settling. That's throwing away you happiness,


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It's been eleven years since he threw his first tantrum and he hasn't changed one bit. Here is a clue: he isn't going to because he doesn't want to. Thinking a baby will fix his personality flaws is absolutely, mind-blowingly stupid. Do you want to have *this* guy's child?


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> It's been eleven years since he threw his first tantrum and he hasn't changed one bit. Here is a clue: he isn't going to because he doesn't want to. Thinking a baby will fix his personality flaws is absolutely, mind-blowingly stupid. Do you want to have *this* guy's child?


I agree with what you are saying. It is stupid to think a baby will fix things and I actually don’t think a baby can fix things.
I guess I’m more trying to understand how I can navigate the next steps.
Of course this behaviour flaw in him has made me extremely reluctant/hesitant. He has so much going for him otherwise.
Thanks again for your response.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sunny777 said:


> I do love him but I’m not in love with him.


Well, that's your answer. I wouldn't have a child with a man I'm not in love with.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It will hurt no matter when you pull the plug. Just remember - you aren't getting any younger.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Well, that's your answer. I wouldn't have a child with a man I'm not in love with.


You bet your bippy you wouldn't.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> @Sunny777 I read all of your replies to the forums members and mine. Having said that, I think that it's really up to you how you want to live your life. But, so far even with your very concise explanations, to me (that's me, based on your responses) what I'm reading is basically, justifications. Justifications, to continue in a relationship where although there might be some friendship and care, it seems that it's not what you really want, but are settling due to your perceived justifications, to the situation, friends, family.
> 
> You might stay and have kids with him, but will you be truly really happy in it? will you wake up in the mornings next to him and look at him and smile, or it will give you more thoughts of was I right by choosing to stay?
> 
> ...


Hi Rob

Thanks for your reply. There is a lot of truth to what you are saying but I have a few things to say.
The first thing is, there is a lot going for him which I need in a partner. He is driven, ambitious, energetic, financially successful with a big vision, jovial and playful when he’s in a good mood, and great around the house. I guess these qualities, along with my fertility declining is keeping me here. Of course I would have preferred someone more sophisticated and intellectual, but is anyone really 100% what others want? So I overlook some things. But I cannot overlook this behavioural issue. 
Regarding love, I believe love is a verb and a choice you make each day. The infatuation stage generally only lasts 1-2 years and then reality kicks in once the hormones calm down. My mum and dad been together over 50 years. They’re not in love but love each other so much and cannot live without each other. They are a successful couple, They care for each other deeply and want to see each other happy. I just don’t know if being in love is possible when you’ve been together 12 years? There might be moments of the infatuation but it can’t be a permanent state surely? I have another friend who’s been with her husband 18 years and isn’t in love but loves her hubby.

I don’t know if I’m just disillusioned completely with my thoughts.
Thanks again


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> You bet your bippy you wouldn't.


Yes, I'm not changing sex and I'm too old, anyway...


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Sunny777

I think you are good room mates , you are a little too polite and he is the other way ,
you don't love him ,you are happy to have him around ,
you have put off having a child because something inside you is telling you this man is not the man for you

You saw his best when he needed you most after the first year you started to see the real him ,
But we see it here too often that when marriage and children puts the most strain on a couple and if there is any cracks the house can start to fall,

he might think he will be a complete man if he is a father he might even have his mother looking for grandchildren , I have no idea if you divorce him if he can stay in oz ? You might have responded to this all ready , but does he know where he stands on that one , as he might want a child to give him the points he needs if he was to divorce you after ,


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I married someone outside my culture. I live in the US because of him. I speak English because of him. 

We are very different, but he has never disrespected me. There are basic unspoken rules in a relationship. Yelling, embarrassing a spouse or threatening divorce are unacceptable to me.

There's no way I could stay married to someone who treats me like that. You're not even in love with him! And you want to bring a child into your dysfunctional mess? 

What do you do for a living? Can you live on your own?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Sunny777 said:


> Regarding love, I believe love is a verb and a choice you make each day. The infatuation stage generally only lasts 1-2 years and then reality kicks in once the hormones calm down.


You are correct with the above assumption, nonetheless, the key ingredient which I already mentioned and which it seems you are willing to ignore is compatibility; which from everything you said, you two are not really compatible. yes, you can live your life with another person where there is not "being in love", but two incompatible persons living together, all it does is to create an existence of clashes in the daily routine, living a forced, but (if) amenable coexistence, but never being truly happy, and that nagging feeling in your head, day after day.




Sunny777 said:


> he first thing is, there is a lot going for him which I need in a partner. He is driven, ambitious, energetic, financially successful with a big vision, jovial and playful when he’s in a good mood, and great around the house. *I guess these qualities, along with my fertility declining is keeping me here*.


Again, these are justifications to stay. And if you read what you wrote they all mesh with financial success, nothing more. Typical, a lot of women want that. And if you want to stay is your call, no one else. it's like males fantasies, wanting to marry that gorgeous, voluptuous, pinup model that fill all the physical requirements for a male fantasy. Once married and the daily routine rears its ugly head, and that pinup model wanting to change you, ask for you to give her more and more, and her body odor doesn't even mesh with you anymore, and you don't even want sex with her anymore, but you stay because you feel stuck , don't want give away the prized doll (bragging rights to society) so you stay, but every day that passes you don't like yourself for staying, you question everything, just like you are questioning now.

All those nice qualities that you mentioned about him, you can have them with another man to whom you are truly attracted, and wouldn't think of if he's right or wrong for you because you know that he's right for you. And you wouldn't be apprehensive about having children with him. 

I am by not means trying to persuade you to end your relationship, but to give you insights from my point of view, as to what's a better way to live your live. In one hand your husband, in another hand the possibilities of you having it all with another man. it's a balance in which you must be judge and jury. It's a balance that only you can tilt one way or another, and live with the consequences of it. 
You choose.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

pastasauce79 said:


> I married someone outside my culture. I live in the US because of him. I speak English because of him.
> 
> We are very different, but he has never disrespected me. There are basic unspoken rules in a relationship. Yelling, embarrassing a spouse or threatening divorce are unacceptable to me.
> 
> ...


Hi there pastasauce

Hope you are well and having a great day.
I’m not sure if you have read my other responses. There was infidelity on my end which I think has added to the way he behaves sometimes. Let me clarify what actually happens. Once something triggers him, he gets exasperated and then gets irritable or angry. I can see quite clearly that it is not within his control.
Regarding love, I love him but not in love (ie the passionate first few years). We have been together 12 years. If you do a quick google search, you will see that according to psychologists, “in love” generally only lasts 1-2 years. Then it becomes love which is companionship and care. Again there may be rare cases where the passionate first few years stretch out longer but I personally don’t know anyone who has been in a super long relationship and is still in love with their partner. They instead love them deeply, want to see them happy, and care for them. 
regarding having a baby, I know the behavior issue has to be addressed first. I’m just trying to understand how to navigate steps.
Thanks again


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

pastasauce79 said:


> I married someone outside my culture. I live in the US because of him. I speak English because of him.
> 
> We are very different, but he has never disrespected me. There are basic unspoken rules in a relationship. Yelling, embarrassing a spouse or threatening divorce are unacceptable to me.
> 
> ...


Oh sorry last one, I am a senior finance professional and can live quite comfortably by myself. We also have multiple financial investments together which would split 50/50 in the event of a divorce.

thanks


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Sunny777 said:


> I do love him but I’m not in love with him.


Then you shouldn't be married to him. You are a good friend at best, not a wife. Please, please don't get pregnant with him. This is not the kind of relationship where you want to throw a child into.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> Sunny777
> 
> I think you are good room mates , you are a little too polite and he is the other way ,
> you don't love him ,you are happy to have him around ,
> ...


Hi frenchpaddy
Thanks for your response. I feel I do love him but I don’t have the passionate love for him. I want to see him happy and I care about him. What you said about me putting off kids could be possible. I mean I wanted a lot of things like house, travel before kids which I have now done. 

He became an Aussie citizen 5 years ago so no issues there. I honestly feel like if this behavioural issue could be fixed, we could be in a really happy space. There is so much good in this marriage. He is very jovial when he is happy. He thinks he has anxiety but I think it might be a mood disorder or ADHD because he sometimes doesn’t look at me in the eyes, struggles to concentrate and gets easily distracted. I also feel I contributed through my infidelity. Maybe it is game over. I will try and see if he is willing to get professional help for this issue and take it from there depending on that.

thanks again for your insights, I will think more about them.
Sunny


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Then you shouldn't be married to him. You are a good friend at best, not a wife. Please, please don't get pregnant with him. This is not the kind of relationship where you want to throw a child into.


Hi BigDaddy
What is the difference between being in love and loving?
I googled it and says Being in love is the passionate fireworks that on average last 1-2 years and then fizzles out to become love. Hence I said I’m no longer in love. I have had moments of infatuation here and there but I think that stopped awhile back. I love him in that I deeply care for him, want to see him happy and want him around. Also I am still physically attracted to him.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

Sunny777 said:


> Hi BigDaddy
> What is the difference between being in love and loving?
> I googled it and says Being in love is the passionate fireworks that on average last 1-2 years and then fizzles out to become love. Hence I said I’m no longer in love. I have had moments of infatuation here and there but I think that stopped awhile back. I love him in that I deeply care for him, want to see him happy and want him around. Also I am still physically attracted to him.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Sunny777 said:


> Hi everuone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the word I meant was carator , he been a grumpy sod , and you very much more diplomat , and may be at times let him away with too much , and not addressing the issues in time where they have a more long lasting affect on you and your relationship ,

you have settled for a man that is in a way childish , and is a control freak , but you talked about you having something for a coworker , I would say the marriage was over at this stage , the fact that you fell for a type of fellow that you would not go for if you were looking for someone , To me there is no difference in if you had feelings for another guy or if you had wild sex with him , the fact your feelings had to say moved is stretching it a bit , because I think you did not have feelings for your husband , 

I think he is holding your affair against you and went to MC not to heal himself but thinking it would whip you into shape , and that he who is never wrong would have support 

do you want him when he has a child to have one of his moments and he could even use you history against you , 

you seem to be using every reason you can come up with to stay in this house sharing arrangement marriage , you say you want to keep the house until 2024 well even if you go for a divorce it will take that long any way 

you all so are using you age and reproductive possibility to stay in this with him , 
Even your dads love for him when you know well you father and mother want you to be in a happy relationship and their grand-children or child to grow up in a happy union 

you are giving him all the power to hold you at ransom in this marriage 


BeyondRepair007 said:


> Thanks for the clarification and extra details.
> 
> Does it change my perspective? No.
> 
> ...


this is a very good response


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Sunny777 said:


> Hi frenchpaddy
> Thanks for your response. I feel I do love him but I don’t have the passionate love for him. I want to see him happy and I care about him. What you said about me putting off kids could be possible. I mean I wanted a lot of things like house, travel before kids which I have now done.
> 
> He became an Aussie citizen 5 years ago so no issues there. I honestly feel like if this behavioural issue could be fixed, we could be in a really happy space. There is so much good in this marriage. He is very jovial when he is happy. He thinks he has anxiety but I think it might be a mood disorder or ADHD because he sometimes doesn’t look at me in the eyes, struggles to concentrate and gets easily distracted. I also feel I contributed through my infidelity. Maybe it is game over. I will try and see if he is willing to get professional help for this issue and take it from there depending on that.
> ...


LETS JUST SAY FRIDAY you ask him to get help , he starts to go to meeting then he tells you sorry I can't keep up the meeting because of xyz, or if he goes to his meeting at what time will you think it is safe to think about making a baby , if he started going will he demand you jump into bed and we get the baby factory oiled up


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Sunny777 said:


> Hi BigDaddy
> What is the difference between being in love and loving?
> I googled it and says Being in love is the passionate fireworks that on average last 1-2 years and then fizzles out to become love. Hence I said I’m no longer in love. I have had moments of infatuation here and there but I think that stopped awhile back. I love him in that I deeply care for him, want to see him happy and want him around.


When a wife, or any spouse, says I love you but I'm not in love with you it always means you've lost more than just that initial spark. It means you've lost what makes a marriage a marriage and the relationship has changed to a friendship and roommate arrangement. You can love and deeply care for a sibling, a parent, a relative or friend, but your spouse is the person you are supposed to be IN love with. It is different. ILYBINILWY is usually the famous last words before a spouse leaves the marriage or cheats. Bringing a child into this is such a bad idea. Your marriage is in a weakened state at best and adding the stress of a child will not make anything better.

BTW, I've been married 32 years and we are both definitely still in love with each other.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> When a wife, or any spouse, says I love you but I'm not in love with you it always means you've lost more than just that initial spark. It means you've lost what makes a marriage a marriage and the relationship has changed to a friendship and roommate arrangement. You can love and deeply care for a sibling, a parent, a relative or friend, but your spouse is the person you are supposed to be IN love with. It is different. ILYBINILWY is usually the famous last words before a spouse leaves the marriage or cheats. Bringing a child into this is such a bad idea. Your marriage is in a weakened state at best and adding the stress of a child will not make anything better.
> 
> BTW, I've been married 32 years and we are both definitely still in love with each other.


agree with that and add in the fact you had an affair that I don't know if it was fully addressed , 
some thing tells me you are seeing him at his best now , and it will come back to hurt both you ,


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Sunny777 said:


> Again there may be rare cases where the passionate first few years stretch out longer but I personally don’t know anyone who has been in a super long relationship and is still in love with their partner.


20 years in love and counting. 

You like to type a lot of excuses.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> When a wife, or any spouse, says I love you but I'm not in love with you it always means you've lost more than just that initial spark. It means you've lost what makes a marriage a marriage and the relationship has changed to a friendship and roommate arrangement. You can love and deeply care for a sibling, a parent, a relative or friend, but your spouse is the person you are supposed to be IN love with. It is different. ILYBINILWY is usually the famous last words before a spouse leaves the marriage or cheats. Bringing a child into this is such a bad idea. Your marriage is in a weakened state at best and adding the stress of a child will not make anything better.
> 
> BTW, I've been married 32 years and we are both definitely still in love with each other.





BigDaddyNY said:


> When a wife, or any spouse, says I love you but I'm not in love with you it always means you've lost more than just that initial spark. It means you've lost what makes a marriage a marriage and the relationship has changed to a friendship and roommate arrangement. You can love and deeply care for a sibling, a parent, a relative or friend, but your spouse is the person you are supposed to be IN love with. It is different. ILYBINILWY is usually the famous last words before a spouse leaves the marriage or cheats. Bringing a child into this is such a bad idea. Your marriage is in a weakened state at best and adding the stress of a child will not make anything better.
> 
> BTW, I've been married 32 years and we are both definitely still in love with each other.


Wow, 32 years and in love. You are really in an ideal space. To be honest though, what you have is quite rare. I have some friends that have been married for over 10 years and I do not think they are in love with their spouses however they most certainly love them. A lot of people can have happy marriages without exactly being in love for that long. They could really love their spouse and love spending time with them. Finding a love like yours could take a lifetime for people. I don’t see him as a sibling or roommate, When things are good I enjoy spending time with him and am physically attracted to him. For the last year, as our marriage has gotten better overall, I find very few other men attractive. We were in Europe for 4 weeks in June and I remember checking out only 2 guys in the whole trip! I actually surprised myself haha. On good days we share kisses throughout the day and I like when he cuddles me on the sofa. Maybe these feelings are not enough.
I agree regarding weakened state. We are not ready to have a child yet. I would love, as first priority, if his behaviour could get sorted, because I know my feelings would increase


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

pastasauce79 said:


> I married someone outside my culture. I live in the US because of him. I speak English because of him.
> 
> We are very different, but he has never disrespected me. There are basic unspoken rules in a relationship. Yelling, embarrassing a spouse or threatening divorce are unacceptable to me.
> 
> ...


Wow 20 years. So what does being in love mean to you? Let me see how it compares with my situation.
I wouldn’t say I’m giving excuses, I’m trying to give people an accurate view of my experience which is so hard over text in a forum.
The thing is, in my case, the issue is not having the passionate fireworks. The issue is his behavioural issue. If that gets solved, I have a feeling that overall my feelings will be stronger for him. It’s just a theory, but I’d rather test it out than have regrets about not trying.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> agree with that and add in the fact you had an affair that I don't know if it was fully addressed ,
> some thing tells me you are seeing him at his best now , and it will come back to hurt both you ,


You might be intuitive.
I will see if he agrees to get professional help. I think I would see his best if he agrees and the issue can be sorted. Maybe he has ADHD in which case a number of treatments would have to be used together.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Sunny777 said:


> So what does being in love mean to you?


No cheating. No disrespect. Cheating is a form of abuse btw. 

Being in love is different for everyone. I'm in love with someone who meets my emotional needs. 

Fireworks? Yeah, sometimes the fireworks are still there. Do i need fireworks all the time to feel in love? No. I'm boring. I need calmness and peace to feel in love. 

What do you need to feel in love?


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Sunny777 said:


> The issue is his behavioural issue. If that gets solved, I have a feeling that overall my feelings will be stronger for him.


Waiting so many years to address this is crazy to me. The first time my husband is disrespectful to me and I'm out. 

Of course you can't feel love for someone who throws a temper tantrum twice a week. At the same time, you have allowed him to do that so he's gonna keep doing it because it works in his favor! 

What happens if you walk away when he's having a tantrum?


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

pastasauce79 said:


> No cheating. No disrespect. Cheating is a form of abuse btw.
> 
> Being in love is different for everyone. I'm in love with someone who meets my emotional needs.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for your response.
I don’t know if you read my other responses. The infidelity that occurred was from my end, not from his. I was a very different person back then and in a seriously unhappy place. How I feel about him is really different now.
I do not think all my emotional needs are being met. Some are but not all. He is a provider personality, typical hard working guy but not the best with emotions. MC I saw said having a deep emotional connection with a man is very rare and not realistic. She was based in Gottman approach - like, trust and respect.
I know he has respect for me because I see it, the behaviour issue seems something out of his control (like prodding someone until they react, also a stress management issue) The direct speech in front of my friends is a consequence of his behavioural issue rather than a lack of respect. He think he has anxiety but I think it could be either generalised anger or ADHD.
For me in love means fireworks, infatuation. I had that with my ex and he was a complete and utter tool. He was just super physically attractive. Where I’m at right now is I have no interest in other men, I enjoy spending time with him on good days and love cuddling on the couch etc. I am also physically attracted to him. He is a jovial, energetic guy who is extroverted and loves to laugh. I find these qualities attractive.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

pastasauce79 said:


> Waiting so many years to address this is crazy to me. The first time my husband is disrespectful to me and I'm out.
> 
> Of course you can't feel love for someone who throws a temper tantrum twice a week. At the same time, you have allowed him to do that so he's gonna keep doing it because it works in his favor!
> 
> What happens if you walk away when he's having a tantrum?


Hi pastasauce

Please read my earlier long responses. This issue was brought up during our relationship.
“the first time my husband is disrespectful to me” What about if your husband isn’t exactly disrespectful but struggles with stress management and has irritability or anger issues due to an undiagnosed disorder or childhood trauma? Would you really get divorced then and there rather than trying to understand what’s going on or help?
You are right in saying that the tantrum has also been allowed also. He offered me a solution for it which I mentioned in my earlier comments. It’s not a bad solution but just not long term.
We were told to walk away by MC which he himself says to calm down. He will say leave me alone, or stop talking or go away in order to calm down. He learnt this technique from MC. Usually in 5 mins he’s back to calm.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Sunny777 said:


> Thanks again for your response.
> I don’t know if you read my other responses. The infidelity that occurred was from my end, not from his. I was a very different person back then and in a seriously unhappy place. How I feel about him is really different now.
> I do not think all my emotional needs are being met. Some are but not all. He is a provider personality, typical hard working guy but not the best with emotions. MC I saw said having a deep emotional connection with a man is very rare and not realistic. She was based in Gottman approach - like, trust and respect.
> I know he has respect for me because I see it, the behaviour issue seems something out of his control (like prodding someone until they react, also a stress management issue) The direct speech in front of my friends is a consequence of his behavioural issue rather than a lack of respect. He think he has anxiety but I think it could be either generalised anger or ADHD.
> For me in love means fireworks, infatuation. I had that with my ex and he was a complefe and utter tool. He was just super physically attractive. Where I’m at right now is I have no interest in other men, I enjoy spending time with him on good days and love cuddling on the couch etc. I am also physically attracted to him. He is a jovial, energetic guy who is extroverted and loves to laugh. I find these qualities attractive.


You were the abuser in that case, cheating. I think that is what @pastasauce79 was talking about.

Think about this. You cheated in the first year of being married. That is supposed to be the best time in your marriage yet you were making out and probably getting groped by a coworker for months. I bet you also talked about how bad your husband is.

Your MC is a fool if they are telling you a deep emotional connection is not realistic. That is nonsense and sounds more like excusing your lack of love for your husband. It also sound like an excuses commonly used to have an affair. 

You are full of excuses for him too. Saying his behavior issues are out of his control is nonsense.

Your marriage extremely weak and getting pregnant at this time is probably the worst decision you could make as it throws an innocent child into this disaster of a relationship.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

what I don't like is he seems to be a Dr Gentle and Mr Hyde 

Reminds me of a person I know years ago 
Paul was like you described YOUR HUSBAND we would call to Paul's house he was there with his wife massaging her feet been the perfect husband , then he would for the smallest reason turn on his wife , treat her like crap , we often hoped the ground would open, then it would pass, and he would be all over the wife again like we were not there , his wife told me once when Paul was asleep that she will stay with him till the youngest child was through collage , 

she all so said she lived with paul for 7 years then married him and 3 years later the first child came along , Paul called into the hospital and he had become a different person , from that day she never know when he would flip to his MR Hyde , for the 3 years I know Paul it used to be some times be once a week , some times it was every two weeks , 

it came to a head when we called one night and his wife had dark glasses on and told us before we asked she had bumped into the gate post ,


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sunny777 said:


> Dear BeyondRepair
> Thanks for your response again. I really appreciate you knocking some sense into me because sometimes I feel lost as to what next steps I should take. Previously I used to engage my parents however that is not really an option anymore as I don’t want to give them more stress.
> I have a different question for you. What percentage of people have you seen who get divorced and find another marriage partner within 2 years of their divorce? One of my best friends is 45 and has never been married and cannot find a boyfriend, she has been engaged in the past. We are very different but I am worried I will never find someone and I know how lonely she is and she tells me how awful it is not having anyone there and how terrible her experience on dating apps have been. Somehow I don’t think my situation is worse than hers.
> I will discuss getting help with him and will hold off trying for a baby until healing has been done.
> Thanks again


@Sunny777 I'm not the right person to answer this question about statistics, but I will say this.

Don't make decisions based on what happens 'after', or based on someone else's life. Decide for yourself if this marriage is for you and then act on it. The success or failure rate of post-divorce relationships is not relevant to that decision.

I will also add that your life is exactly what you will accept. In this case you accepted far less than you wanted or expected for yourself and now here we are. Don't do that in the future, whether it's with your husband or without him.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You were the abuser in that case, cheating. I think that is what @pastasauce79 was talking about.
> 
> Think about this. You cheated in the first year of being married. That is supposed to be the best time in your marriage yet you were making out and probably getting groped by a coworker for months. I bet you also talked about how bad your husband is.
> 
> ...


You might be surprised to hear this but the infidelity was 4 years ago. There was no sex involved because that was where I drew the line. Four years is a long time. A lot of healing has happened since then. My feelings now and what they were back then due to him never having time for me (starting a new job) and the behavioural issue, are vastly apart. I used to be easily attracted to other men because I was in such a bad space. These days, I struggle to check out other guys on the street. Besides that, I have grown up. This relationship started when I was 21. In my 20s I was a frivolous, immature person with low self confidence who didn’t think things through. Now I am 33 and I have grown. Also, I understand your point about cheating within a year of marriage. But please remember we were already living together for around 6 years by the time we got married so it didn’t feel that different. I did have higher expectations though which weren’t being met. MC we saw was actually quite good, she is a revered psychologist and family counsellor who uses the Gottman approach. MC understood why I had the fling and has seen several couples recover from infidelity. She said I need to stop allowing the fling as a justification for his behaviour issue. We were just not able to see her consistently due to the lockdowns, but she did help. She made we realise we have different personalities, because her husband apparently has the same personality (type A - Director). She identified my mild anxiety which is now in control. She taught us about “flooding” and we do implement her strategies somewhat even now. The thing she did not help with is getting whatever he has under control. As I said before, she thought he has stress management issue combined with digestive issues (causing emotional instability). As we were going to embark on a treatment for that, lockdowns and things came in the way. But at one point, he was ready. He was ready to see the counsellor, ready to fix things. Most of friends who are married agreed with her that it is very rare to find a deep emotional connection with a man, certainly a good emotional connection is needed, but she was talking about a deep one. She said that’s why you have other things in your life like friends and family because you cannot get everything just from one person. I wonder if you just got lucky finding someone you have a deep emotional connection with. I have thought about this and it is not something I need, what I need is a good emotional connection, physical attraction, similar values and lifestyles, financial strength, and generally peaceful behavior. I have most of these things but I don’t have the last thing in my current relationship. Our emotional connection is probably average not great. But that’s why I would want to try and fix the last thing because it would positively impact our emotional connection as well. I do not want to get divorced. In the past when I was really unhappy, I could easily imagine divorce and at one point event fantasised about my life without him. Now those thoughts do not enter my head because the stability in the relationship has increased and his behaviour overall has improved. I do agree a child currently is not the right idea. However I certainly would not call this a disaster of a relationship. It’s very easy to get judged online because people have their own projections and limited understanding of the situation.

I also want to clarify that when I said 1/2 per week, I mean he responds to something I say in a loud reactive way which is an overreaction to what I am saying. He gets easily irritated at times. Actual yelling on something probably happens every other week or every 3 weeks
I do suspect that his love for me may have changed after the infidelity.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> @Sunny777 I'm not the right person to answer this question about statistics, but I will say this.
> 
> Don't make decisions based on what happens 'after', or based on someone else's life. Decide for yourself if this marriage is for you and then act on it. The success or failure rate of post-divorce relationships is not relevant to that decision.
> 
> I will also add that your life is exactly what you will accept. In this case you accepted far less than you wanted or expected for yourself and now here we are. Don't do that in the future, whether it's with your husband or without him.


Thank you for your solid advice. You’ve given me the best advice so far on this forum.
Have a great day!


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> what I don't like is he seems to be a Dr Gentle and Mr Hyde
> 
> Reminds me of a person I know years ago
> Paul was like you described YOUR HUSBAND we would call to Paul's house he was there with his wife massaging her feet been the perfect husband , then he would for the smallest reason turn on his wife , treat her like crap , we often hoped the ground would open, then it would pass, and he would be all over the wife again like we were not there , his wife told me once when Paul was asleep that she will stay with him till the youngest child was through collage ,
> ...


Hey frenchpaddy
How do I explain to you that is honestly not what is going on. We have an equal partnership. I do not allow myself to be dominated by men. I have however allowed myself to be yelled at or get irritated with easily at where I have to be careful how I word things with him. All our big decisions have been joint decisions. He can be amazing to me behind closed doors also. We share a lot of fun moments. He is not an abuser and this has been confirmed by MC. He does have a soft heart but a problem with his irritability/tolerance levels at times. Eg. I get his car scratched, he says nothing, not mad at all. But he will fight with me on what photos of us to put up on facebook.
the problem is that his reactions are overreactions sometimes. They are not proportionate to the event. But how do I say this. Tomorrow if we have a child, he will be the one changing most of the diapers and encouraging me to get a massage. I know him well enough to be able to say that. I don’t know if I’m making sense


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> @Sunny777 I'm not the right person to answer this question about statistics, but I will say this.
> 
> Don't make decisions based on what happens 'after', or based on someone else's life. Decide for yourself if this marriage is for you and then act on it. The success or failure rate of post-divorce relationships is not relevant to that decision.
> 
> I will also add that your life is exactly what you will accept. In this case you accepted far less than you wanted or expected for yourself and now here we are. Don't do that in the future, whether it's with your husband or without him.


One last thing. I agree initially I accepted far less. But since then we have both grown quite a bit. But today I can say that if he didn’t have the behavioural issue, we would be in a pretty good space. We have pretty similar values and lifestyles. I’ve naturally become more of a homebody (getting old I think) but we still regularly go out for dinner. He’s not huge on the fine dine space like I am, but I’m ok going out to a fancy place once a month and doing twice a week dinners locally. Yes he doesn’t meet my intellectual needs, but I keep thinking no one gets 100%. We went to Europe for 4 weeks in June and both had fun. He says he enjoys travelling but didn’t understand my need for it before having a child when I tried to explain to him the bucket list concept. But he said he would like to go travelling once or twice a year going forward and that suits me fine. I deeply value his loyalty despite my infidelity. I think in today’s day and age, loyalty is becoming rarer and infidelity becoming normalised. I know my relationship is far from perfect, but I will definitely not accept less going forward. I love this way of thinking.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

What I now see is that you are trying to find reasons to stay, reasons that would make sense to you to say, OK these are good reasons, I'm staying and will have children with him.

In life nothing is guaranteed for no one.
We make choices and if they turn out to not be good choices for us, we either change the situation to remedy those bad choices, or stay and accept that you're staying with the good and bad and that's that. There is no magical potion, nor instant I wish, I wish...just what we have in front of us, and what we do with it.


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> What I now see is that you are trying to find reasons to stay, reasons that would make sense to you to say, OK these are good reasons, I'm staying and will have children with him.
> 
> In life nothing is guaranteed for no one.
> We make choices and if they turn out to not be good choices for us, we either change the situation to remedy those bad choices, or stay and accept that you're staying with the good and bad and that's that. There is no magical potion, nor instant I wish, I wish...just what we have in front of us, and what we do with it.


Hi Rob. Thanks again for your response. I want to see how beautiful life would be if he didn’t have this behavioural issue. My failing was not asserting this earlier and only making some weak attempts. If I do not assert to him one last time that it is imperitave he gets some help and that I’m happy to come along, I may have regrets if I leave thinking I didn’t try hard enough. Now whether he will be up for it or not, I cannot force him. If he says no because he’s had enough, I do not think I can stay because I would be worried about bringing a child into this. Hence I will have to leave.
If he says he’s willing to get help, then we may have a chance. In terms of getting divorced, from a societal and financial perspective, there shouldn’t be much of a problem. In the past I have seriously considered divorcing, when I was really unhappy. The only issue now is that my Dad was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer in December however his tumours have reduced by 70%. I have consciously not spoken about my marriage with him because I don’t want him to take on additional stress. He thinks he got cancer due to stress. Breaking the news to him would be super hard because my sister is divorced also. I’m worried the stress from the news would cause his cancer to come back or get worse.

Also, seeing MC was also to get resolution for behavioural issue. However MC thought something medical was going on. She wanted him to see someone and we were about to. Lockdowns really got in the way and then we ended up not pursuing it due to life getting busy (which is an excuse for deprioritising it)


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Sunny777 said:


> Hi Rob. Thanks again for your response. I want to see how beautiful life would be if he didn’t have this behavioural issue. My failing was not asserting this earlier and only making some weak attempts. If I do not assert to him one last time that it is imperitave he gets some help and that I’m happy to come along, I may have regrets if I leave thinking I didn’t try hard enough. Now whether he will be up for it or not, I cannot force him. If he says no because he’s had enough, I do not think I can stay because I would be worried about bringing a child into this. Hence I will have to leave.
> If he says he’s willing to get help, then we may have a chance. In terms of getting divorced, from a societal and financial perspective, there shouldn’t be much of a problem. In the past I have seriously considered divorcing, when I was really unhappy. The only issue now is that my Dad was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer in December however his tumours have reduced by 70%. I have consciously not spoken about my marriage with him because I don’t want him to take on additional stress. He thinks he got cancer due to stress. Breaking the news to him would be super hard because my sister is divorced also. I’m worried the stress from the news would cause his cancer to come back or get worse.
> 
> Also, seeing MC was also to get resolution for behavioural issue. However MC thought something medical was going on. She wanted him to see someone and we were about to. Lockdowns really got in the way and then we ended up not pursuing it due to life getting busy (which is an excuse for deprioritising it)


As I understand all so the last thing you want is for you father to find out that you cheated on the guy your father loves ,
If you talk about divorce your secret will come out in the wash, 

YOU are making your husband look so good now , that you are starting to make us wish it was he that was here , and we could advise him how to get away from you ,

which is it because if it is just that he can for some reason raise his voice only once or twice a month , 
he is bringing in money that you two have built up proprietary and you can travel , you have friends living the high life, 
and it was you that cheated , 

I find when a person comes here and makes a post painting their partner to be one thing and from then on posts that he is not so bad and it is them that is the bad one , 
that the sex life is all most gone , I am not trying to rub your nose in it , but someone has to turn the tables on you a bit and show you it from his side 
john goes to work everyday he is a good worker does his job in 12 years he has built his life up in a new country , 
he meets a Sheila , that takes pity on him when she was in bits after her last relationship went to bits ,
Both lived together as husband and wife to keep him from getting his ass kicked out in the first 7 years he proved himself to the Sheila and they had a second wedding , a church wedding because before then it was just a state marriage , just something to have a paper , but this showed John that he was doing things right building a life with the woman that tuck him in and gave him a chance ,
but just 9 months later the Sheila is wound up in an affair with a coworker , his world pulled from under him and she is still going to the same work place ,  SEX life has taken a tole and now he can't even talk to her they come in at evening he in his ball she in hers both waiting for the other to make the first move , he is an alpha male WITH his balls cut out but a bossier woman that had an affair behind his back , he has lost trust in her , 

but because of his age he does not want to loose all he has built up with her over the last 12 years , 

you see there is more than one way to look at this
he could see you as wanting different things and his ideal world ideal woman is slipping away , she once before had an affair and what is to say she has not again, she is from a different world , he sold out his up bringing to be with her his family is telling him that she is not like us , and he is wanting to prove to them that he has made a better life in OZ with his wife and his child , 

so MC never worked was an extra expense a wast of money when if she has stopped loving her fancy boy at work and we are back on the right then why spend money on things I can fix myself ,we sold a house have money in the bank now and spent a bit taking my Ozzie wife on a trip to Europe hoping to get her to want to start a family , but she is still on the pill and now sex has all most stopped, I feel crushed castrated and cheated on ,

not easy to read but you have to look on it from his side to , 
two very different people trying to make their dream life but two different dreams one has to loose for the other to win 

you are putting your backs to the wall now , it has come to the time he has wanted a child he has waited 12 years the anger of not building a family coupled with your affair is taking its tole , and you don't know if you want this guy to be the father of your child after 12 years ,

IF you have to ask the answer is all ways no


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

@Sunny777

1. Your husband is not perfect.
2. You are not perfect.
3. No marriage is perfect.
4. Nobody is perfect.

It is EASY to judge others, however.

In your words:

_"For the last 3 years, he has wanted a child however at that time we were not financially stable and did not own our house. Now we have all that and have travelled extensively also, so from a practical standpoint we are ready and I am coming around after facing a lot of upset and anger from his end due to not having a child. I also know we are not getting younger. I have wanted a child ideally but with him there exists an issue which holds me back which is something I cannot diagnose. It is an easily-irritable personality which results in quick and loud outbursts and also is quick to calm. If I do something that irritates or upsets him, he has a flare up. Maybe around 1-2 times a week give or take. During these outbursts he can say some very mean things and also sometimes raises divorce as an ultimate solution. I understand he is really pained about not having a child by now and I try and explain that as the mother my level of sacrifice will be higher and he needs to be patient and let me get to the point where I am ready instead of being frustrated, but he doesn’t fully agree with this. He keeps saying he has anxiety however I don’t know if it’s that, a mood disorder, digestive issues, generalised anger issues or something else."_

Allow me.

I understand that your husband has a temper but he have relationship-worthy qualities as well: You have admitted that your husband is woman-friendly. You also have admitted to have had regular outings with him.

Some of your complaints are valid *but* your husband also have feelings, needs, and expectations from you as his wife, right?

Your husband have had to come to terms with your infidelity in 1st year of your marriage (you have admitted this in a post), and you continued to refuse to have children with him for one reason after another in subsequent years. You seem to have created a long list of "requirements for HIM to meet" for you to consider having children with him in the course of your relationship. You desired a comfortable lifestyle with a beautiful house and various amenities [before] you would consider having children with your husband. Now that these needs are met, you have complaints about your husband's attitude in the present. Your husband have started to *resent* you for denying him Fatherhood in marriage. This much is apparent in his outbursts lately. You have further admitted that you do NOT love your husband.

So WHAT EXACTLY is LEFT in your marriage to salvage in view of your revelations?

_-----_

I am sharing my story with you to give you some perspective. I am *not* Mr. Perfect personality-wise, and I (was) *not* a millionaire when I married my wife. She have had 'expectations' from me (some are met, and some are to be met). This did NOT stop her from fulfilling her wifely responsibilities. She felt strongly about having a child in 3rd year of OUR marriage. My daughter has brought much JOY in OUR lives, and have *helped strengthen* my marriage by extension.

Becoming parents can be GOOD for a marriage.









Kids Can Be Good for Marriage, Really


Yes, having children will change your marriage, but you can trust that God designed your marriage to grow and deepen through that change.




www.focusonthefamily.com





My socioeconomic status have also shifted over time. My wife have a decent job while I strive for self-development.

I have every reason to love, honor and cherish my wife, and I feel 100% motivated to make things better for my family unit. She have carried her relationship with me in ways FEW woman can.

-----

You have FAILED as a wife while chasing perfection and Disney romance in your marriage. 

Your husband [is] *frustrated *with you no doubt. 

Sorry about your father's health-related problems. But you are making this the basis to string your husband along. 

Have you told your husband that you do not love him? How about you PLAN to part ways with your husband in amicable fashion?


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## Sunny777 (6 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> @Sunny777
> 
> 1. Your husband is not perfect.
> 2. You are not perfect.
> ...


Hi,
Sorry I appreciate your response and will send a longer one shortly but I just want to clarify that I do indeed love him. I find him physically attractive and do not feel attractions for other men. I just don’t have the passion anymore. Of course I don’t know if what I feel is enough. I care for him and want to see him happy but certainly not at the cost of my happiness.
Will post a longer one in a bit, thanks


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Ok it’s clear he’s asking for a divorce and has also asked you to sign papers… do you talk him out of it every time? The guy is repeatedly telling you he wants a divorce. He wants out!


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

for now your still on his not talking so I am not talking ,
you are thinking along the way to go is put down your foot and make him admit that he needs to go to treatment , if he responds with getting hot he has lost the debate, so then he through s his toys out with the D word , you then back off or to came the moment both come round to getting a little help ,

the help starts until he can drop it and go back to asking for a baby to fix the relationship ,
be a first one for me to add in another set of responsibilities and hope it makes it better ,

This is no different to the ones that ask if they agree to start swinging and have an open relationship that it will fix a bad relationship,

there are differences but they are not so much culture but more wanting different lifestyles,

It’s ok you can vent all you like. Getting it out in the open to dissect is the first step.you are afraid to vent because you don't have the same way in reacting , if you start he will drop the D word and it is how it went before and after the affair , but the big difference with the affair was he had a game over card to hold against you If you keep it in a bottle for too long it will just drag your soul down. I would imagine it is a confusing thing to have undivided attention one day and an sparks the next. It’s really not fair. I’m the type of person that plays things out immediately when I don’t like something ... I suggest you do the same. Be polite but assertive and direct. People get treated the way they allow themselves to be treated.
while you say you will stand up to him , I think you are wounded , he has a childish idea that a baby is all it takes to make his life full , 
but what if the child is not the perfect child , if the child needs extra care, or has a handicap, are both ready for the chances that when you have a child it is a child for life , you can't hand it back if it is not the one you wanted , 

no marriage is perfect , we all come together , some of us get to have more baggage than others and some handle it differently 

Some people are just moody...actually, we all are, but some of us contain it better or hide it better.

Have you ever asked him what he needs from you when he is feeling moody? Maybe he would just like you to be quiet with him and not discuss anything


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