# If you tolerate this...



## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

That old dilemma again. Keep the peace or call it out. 
I'm at home recuperating after an unpleasant operation, self-isolating and pretty miserable.
My wife calls up as she goes out the front door "The cats need feeding."
She doesn't ask if I would feed them, she expresses the assumption that I will.
I call back down from my bed "OK", which is too non-committal obviously. (She wanted me to call down "Yes I'll feed them". I know I should have called down "Can you feed them when you get back?"
But I just said OK, and she calls back up "Hello?")
A bit confused I call down "Yeah hello!!"
"You there?" she calls.
"Of course I'm here!"
"I said the cats need feeding!"
Again I'm stuck for an answer.
She calls up "Can you feed them please" and although that sounds like a question, if I take it as a question I better get ready for 3 or 4 days of noisy emotional distress that nobody can deal with, especially not if they're ill. It will dive deep into how she was over-punished as a kid, she's missed out on her pipe dream of having babies due to leaving it too late, and more. 
So I say of course I'll feed them. 
The thing is we both feed them every day. It's just that right now I'm lying on a bed in discomfort and meant to be self isolating.
And I'm pretty sure she resents that. I'm no malingering, and I'm not saying she's accused me of that, but i can tell she hates the pressure of doing a but more to keep house, cook meals, clean up a bit. 
So we've been civil to each other, mainly for a couple of months now, what with being cooped up at hime due to Covid, and I want cling on that fragile peace for as along as I can. 
And when she alls up that the cats need feeding, as if just stating that should be enough for me to jump to it, I feel hurt and confused, and I know if I say something like "hey Pixie, I'd like it if you asked me rather than just assuming I would do it.." it would set off an avalanche tat would take us weeks to dig out of, if ever.
So the opportunity has gone. I should have not been confused, not been non-committal, just had the gravy to call back down "can you feed them when you get back?"
That would have started an alrighty meltdown too but at least I would have felt authentic.
How to say exactly the best thing at the time? I'm caught by surprise too often.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If you can't communicate to her that you are in so much pain from surgery that you'd appreciate it if she fed the cats (and really, why the **** is she even asking you to do it) because of the **** storm that would ensue, IT IS TIME TO FREE YOURSELF FROM THIS RELATIONSHIP.

Like, yesterday.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

Livvie said:


> If you can't communicate to her that you are in so much pain from surgery that you'd appreciate it if she fed the cats (and really, why the *** is she even asking you to do it) because of the *** storm that would ensue, IT IS TIME TO FREE YOURSELF FROM THIS RELATIONSHIP.
> 
> Like, yesterday.


Probably right. Thing is she DIDN'T ask me - very clever - cos if she had asked my I'd have said no. It was the not offering a choice that kind of confused me, makes me feel foolish.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

matador1958 said:


> Probably right. Thing is she DIDN'T ask me - very clever - cos if she had asked my I'd have said no. It was the not offering a choice that kind of confused me, makes me feel foolish.


This is foolishness... Of course she asked you. If this is HOW YOU communicate, the you may be some of the problem. 

Like @Livvie said, either learn how to communicate, for real not this crap here, or end the relationship. 

For my money, you kind of sound like a doormat if you are used to her doing these things to you. 

You could have said, "I am not doing it, I don't feel well. You can do it or they can ****ing starve as far as I am concerned"...


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

That sounds like way too much to have to think about and navigate after you've just had surgery. Hasn't she ever been down for the count and you picked up the slack? Might be time to remind her about that. Jeez.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> This is foolishness... Of course she asked you. If this is HOW YOU communicate, the you may be some of the problem.
> 
> Like @Livvie said, either learn how to communicate, for real not this crap here, or end the relationship.
> 
> ...


I agree, I am part of the problem, I doormat easily without realising it at the time. The clever thing is she knows I could feed the cats, as I’m meant to keep mobile to prevent DVT, just the way she said it seemed designed to irritate me without sounding too bad. I know her you don’t, I know the games she plays. But yeah it’s up to me, you’re right, I just need to remember at the time it happens.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You’re incapacitated. Why can’t she feed them when she returns (unless she was going to be gone for days). And why didn’t you say you weren’t able to feed them while she was out (if that was the case).

If you’re hoping for her to change, that’s not likely.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think you're self-sabotaging if you are making a thing out of feeding the cats. As long as you can get up out of bed without endangering your operation, you shouldn't have to be told to do your part. Why sabotage the marriage over little things like this. I'm sure she's sick to death of feeling like she has to nag you to do the simplest thing. If your doctor doesn't have you confined to bed, and I imagine she knows if he does or not, then you are not confined to bed, so time to rejoin the living.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

matador1958 said:


> I agree, I am part of the problem, I doormat easily without realising it at the time. The clever thing is she knows I could feed the cats, as I’m meant to keep mobile to prevent DVT, just the way she said it seemed designed to irritate me without sounding too bad. I know her you don’t, I know the games she plays. But yeah it’s up to me, you’re right, I just need to remember at the time it happens.


Listen, of course you know her and we don't. 

But look at what your are writing here, the "Games" she is playing, "Designed to Irritate me", and stuff like this. 

All of this sounds kind of like a passive aggressive nightmare. Maybe from both of you. 

Is this how both of your minds work. 

You know, either say what you mean and mean what you say, or shut the **** up. 

Why do you want to be with someone where you communicate this way...


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think you're self-sabotaging if you are making a thing out of feeding the cats. As long as you can get up out of bed without endangering your operation, you shouldn't have to be told to do your part. Why sabotage the marriage over little things like this. I'm sure she's sick to death of feeling like she has to nag you to do the simplest thing. If your doctor doesn't have you confined to bed, and I imagine she knows if he does or not, then you are not confined to bed, so time to rejoin the living.


Totally, and believe me I feed those cats more than she does, along most other household stuff, the question I have is why was I knocked off balance by her statement? Probably because I recognized as another sign of her never actually asking me to do anything. Always just presenting me with a need and expecting me to deal with it like I was just jangimgvaroundcwaitingvto be given instructions. And I failed again to respond authentically, why?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

matador1958 said:


> Totally, and believe me I feed those cats more than she does, along most other household stuff, the question I have is why was I knocked off balance by her statement? Probably because I recognized as another sign of her never actually asking me to do anything. Always just presenting me with a need and expecting me to deal with it like I was just jangimgvaroundcwaitingvto be given instructions. And I failed again to respond authentically, why?


I think the question is even more simple... Why do you and her communicate, or rather not communicate, this way. 

That is what I am seeing. I am not even saying it is your or her, but why the dynamic, which is not healthy. 

And not to take anything from the above point which I think is really important... 

But why did she say anything. If you are mobile, and you feed the cats on the regular, why say anything? Is it nagging, is it control, is it habit, what is it and why?


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

matador1958 said:


> That old dilemma again. Keep the peace or call it out.
> I'm at home recuperating after an unpleasant operation, self-isolating and pretty miserable.
> My wife calls up as she goes out the front door "The cats need feeding."
> She doesn't ask if I would feed them, she expresses the assumption that I will.
> ...


If you are supposed to stay in bed to rest what I am assuming is an incision then I would say, I cannot get up, you feed it/them please.
If you are recovering why is she asking you to do physical tasks?

Everyone is responding as if there is some long history and other posts you've made and they all seem familiar with your backstory. I am not. 
If I am recovering from surgery I just say, I need to stay in bed you feed them. I'd probably say "you know I am recovering and need to stay in bed why are you even asking me to get up?"


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

hinterdir said:


> If you are supposed to stay in bed to rest what I am assuming is an incision then I would say, I cannot get up, you feed it/them please.
> If you are recovering why is she asking you to do physical tasks?


I think he said he was supposed to move around so he would not get stiff, or whatever...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Well, if you feel you have a legitimate gripe about her telling instead of asking, then first I suggest you start "doing" spontaneously instead of not doing and putting her in a position to have to remind or tell you. Beat her to it. Before she leaves or has time to assign your chore, tell her, I've already fed the cats this morning, or I took out the trash. Be proactive helping her if you don't want her to nag. What other choice does she have if you don't take responsibility to do these things yourself? 

Once you've made that a habit, then see if that stops the nagging. If no, then you are in a better position (after you've done it without being asked for say 3 months) to sit her down and tell her how much effort you've made to stop the nagging but that it hasn't stopped it. 

As far as why you failed to respond authentically, IMO, it's because you aren't in the right here. You are a grown man, not her child, so if you don't want to be treated like a child (which is a romance killer among other unhealthy things), then you've got to be just as much of a proactive adult at taking care of chores and responsibilities as she is, if you want to be on equal standing. So it's never to late to start. I think she's likely be so pleased for a whole month if you just did things and let her know you were doing them (without expecting a reward or praise -- because again, they're your responsibility too) without having to be instructed or nagged. Don't make a big deal of it, but just beat her to it. By now you know what she wants you to do, so do it before she can bring it up and let her know casually in passing, "Oh, the trash is emptied, the cat's been fed. Have a nice day."


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, if you feel you have a legitimate gripe about her telling instead of asking, then first I suggest you start "doing" spontaneously instead of not doing and putting her in a position to have to remind or tell you. Beat her to it. Before she leaves or has time to assign your chore, tell her, I've already fed the cats this morning, or I took out the trash. Be proactive helping her if you don't want her to nag. What other choice does she have if you don't take responsibility to do these things yourself?
> 
> Once you've made that a habit, then see if that stops the nagging. If no, then you are in a better position (after you've done it without being asked for say 3 months) to sit her down and tell her how much effort you've made to stop the nagging but that it hasn't stopped it.
> 
> As far as why you failed to respond authentically, IMO, it's because you aren't in the right here. You are a grown man, not her child, so if you don't want to be treated like a child (which is a romance killer among other unhealthy things), then you've got to be just as much of a proactive adult at taking care of chores and responsibilities as she is, if you want to be on equal standing. So it's never to late to start. I think she's likely be so pleased for a whole month if you just did things and let her know you were doing them (without expecting a reward or praise -- because again, they're your responsibility too) without having to be instructed or nagged. Don't make a big deal of it, but just beat her to it. By now you know what she wants you to do, so do it before she can bring it up and let her know casually in passing, "Oh, the trash is emptied, the cat's been fed. Have a nice day."


Yeah, but DBTR, isn't that just playing into the non communication thing. 

I don't know about you, but I don't need to be told to take out the trash. If I forget, the sure you can ask, did you forget the trash? 

But trying to preemptively pacifying her, that is kind of a lot to ask of adults????


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

matador1958 said:


> And I failed again to respond authentically, why?


My guess is fear of confrontation. Poorly learned skills during childhood. Passive-aggressive tendencies. Want to be seen as the innocent victim in the scenario. 

For what it's worth, it sounds like you both get on each others nerves, don't like each other, and complain about petty crap like this rather than hitting the nail on the head and having authentic, adult conversations.

JMO.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

She is more clever and you lay down too easily. I have this image in my mind of those dogs you walk up to and they bow down and roll over in fear. You started out your message with your fear of her wrath..... It’s the tool she will use from now until your dead. That is unless you change the dynamics of course.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> She is more clever and you lay down too easily. I have this image in my mind of those dogs you walk up to and they bow down and roll over in fear. You started out your message with your fear of her wrath..... It’s the tool she will use from now until your dead. That is unless you change the dynamics of course.


I don't disagree, but... If this is really what is happening, why stay in the relationship? 

What is really the point?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I’m sorry but you sound super annoying. Get up and feed the cats because you said you would. It’s good for you to walk around after surgery. If you don’t want to feed the cats, tell her you can’t do it because you don’t feel well. 

I don’t understand the problem. The way she asked/told you is not a big deal. You seem super super sensitive. You have way too much time on your hands if these are your issues... the way she asks questions.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Yeah, but DBTR, isn't that just playing into the non communication thing.
> 
> I don't know about you, but I don't need to be told to take out the trash. If I forget, the sure you can ask, did you forget the trash?
> 
> But trying to preemptively pacifying her, that is kind of a lot to ask of adults????


She just wants to verify that something will get done, it’s really not a big deal.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

hinterdir said:


> If you are supposed to stay in bed to rest what I am assuming is an incision then I would say, I cannot get up, you feed it/them please.
> If you are recovering why is she asking you to do physical tasks?
> 
> Everyone is responding as if there is some long history and other posts you've made and they all seem familiar with your backstory. I am not.
> If I am recovering from surgery I just say, I need to stay in bed you feed them. I'd probably say "you know I am recovering and need to stay in bed why are you even asking me to get up?"


You have to move around after surgery. Staying in bed is the worst thing you can do.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, if you feel you have a legitimate gripe about her telling instead of asking, then first I suggest you start "doing" spontaneously instead of not doing and putting her in a position to have to remind or tell you. Beat her to it. Before she leaves or has time to assign your chore, tell her, I've already fed the cats this morning, or I took out the trash. Be proactive helping her if you don't want her to nag. What other choice does she have if you don't take responsibility to do these things yourself?
> 
> Once you've made that a habit, then see if that stops the nagging. If no, then you are in a better position (after you've done it without being asked for say 3 months) to sit her down and tell her how much effort you've made to stop the nagging but that it hasn't stopped it.
> 
> As far as why you failed to respond authentically, IMO, it's because you aren't in the right here. You are a grown man, not her child, so if you don't want to be treated like a child (which is a romance killer among other unhealthy things), then you've got to be just as much of a proactive adult at taking care of chores and responsibilities as she is, if you want to be on equal standing. So it's never to late to start. I think she's likely be so pleased for a whole month if you just did things and let her know you were doing them (without expecting a reward or praise -- because again, they're your responsibility too) without having to be instructed or nagged. Don't make a big deal of it, but just beat her to it. By now you know what she wants you to do, so do it before she can bring it up and let her know casually in passing, "Oh, the trash is emptied, the cat's been fed. Have a nice day."


In fact I am more proactive than her with chores and responsibilities, way more, but that’s not the point. And when I’ve done it all she finds one thing I didn’t do, yet. I think go for appeasement because I’m scared of the sheer trauma of splitting up. She’s very controlling with everyone and the only way she’s going to be happy is with somone who’s really Uber- controlling, and that’s not me. Telling me something needs doing is her passive aggressive way of asking.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> She just wants to verify that something will get done, it’s really not a big deal.


I think you are over simplifying it. 

It would not be particularly cool with me if I always take out the trash and you tell me too or ask me too. Women call that controlling.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

matador1958 said:


> In fact I am more proactive than her with chores and responsibilities, way more, but that’s not the point. And when I’ve done it all she finds one thing I didn’t do, yet. I think go for appeasement because I’m scared of the sheer trauma of splitting up. She’s very controlling with everyone and the only way she’s going to be happy is with somone who’s really Uber- controlling, and that’s not me. Telling me something needs doing is her passive aggressive way of asking.


How long have you been married? Kids involved?

It's often said here, "you teach people how to treat you". So if you want to change the dynamic, you will have to change yourself, and then not let her be "Uber-controlling" with you anymore. 

Oh, and telling you something needs done is not her passive aggressive way of asking. It is her way of telling. Passive aggressive would be setting the cat food out for you to find with a note "I'm hungry - the cat" stuck to it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

matador1958 said:


> Telling me something needs doing is her passive aggressive way of asking.


Ok so let’s say this is true... what’s wrong with it? Can’t you just take it as a questions and respond appropriately. After all you can’t change how other people think and speak.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I think you are over simplifying it.
> 
> It would not be particularly cool with me if I always take out the trash and you tell me too or ask me too. Women call that controlling.


This is super interesting to me because I never thought in a million years this was a big deal. I personally think it’s our way to make sure it gets done or something. Like we always have a checklist in our head, and it’s like ok the trash isn’t out yet... honey your doing the trash right? Ok check.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Never mind. Take what I say with a grain of salt because I’m pretty sure I’m on the spectrum. Because I get this all the time and it still doesn’t make sense to me.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> Yeah, but DBTR, isn't that just playing into the non communication thing.
> 
> I don't know about you, but I don't need to be told to take out the trash. If I forget, the sure you can ask, did you forget the trash?
> 
> But trying to preemptively pacifying her, that is kind of a lot to ask of adults????


I don’t think this is about pacifying. It is about doing his part around the house


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

matador1958 said:


> In fact I am more proactive than her with chores and responsibilities, way more, but that’s not the point. And when I’ve done it all she finds one thing I didn’t do, yet. I think go for appeasement because I’m scared of the sheer trauma of splitting up. She’s very controlling with everyone and the only way she’s going to be happy is with somone who’s really Uber- controlling, and that’s not me. Telling me something needs doing is her passive aggressive way of asking.


So if you're more proactive, how does she even have anything to tell you needs to be done? I'm not by any means saying YOU need to do it all, of course, but I mean, you both know the cats need to be fed. I assume you have a once or twice a day schedule, so why can't you just get a one-time agreement about which feeding each of you do? And then do it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Why are you with her — other than habit?


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So if you're more proactive, how does she even have anything to tell you needs to be done? I'm not by any means saying YOU need to do it all, of course, but I mean, you both know the cats need to be fed. I assume you have a once or twice a day schedule, so why can't you just get a one-time agreement about which feeding each of you do? And then do it.


Very good question. Answer: she is very opposed to be “the one who does x”, in the way of housework, and besides that she’s out or away a hell of a lot and I generally do everything other than cook delicious meals and ironing her clothes. Having said that I do feel she might be persuaded.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

matador1958 said:


> I think go for appeasement because I’m scared of the sheer trauma of splitting up.


Sad. Just sad. If you haven't noticed, your wife doesn't respect you. Women don't respect men who play their hand out of fear rather than strength. Again, this is just plain ole' sad.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

matador1958 said:


> Very good question. Answer: she is very opposed to be “the one who does x”, in the way of housework, and besides that she’s out or away a hell of a lot and I generally do everything other than cook delicious meals and ironing her clothes. Having said that I do feel she might be persuaded.


Well, if she's gone a lot and she's worrying about whether stuff gets done, you need to be more reassuring and vocal and let her know what you're going to do and that you've done it, I guess. Just try to beat her to it. She's dressing to leave, say, I'll feed the cat this morning and go to the store. After you feed the cat, tell her Just fed the cat. She sounds like she doesn't think she can trust you to do it on your own. And because your first post was making excuses why you're in bed, etc., she may have a point. Anyway, this is something you can fix, so start getting a step ahead of her and vocalizing your intent and what you did.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

There was a complaint the other day from a guy saying there would be things that happened or things he did (or didn't do) by accident, by mistake, or unintentionally, but his wife always accuses him of lying and doing things intentionally just to annoy her or to get on her nerves. He hated that she always accused him. He said it made him feel like she was calling him a jerk. The problem, little did he know, was that he's a very thoughtless and inconsiderate person. Even in the most obvious types of situations, he would fail to do the kinds of thoughtful things the average person would do. By now, his wife is so fed up that she can't even fathom that he ISN'T doing (or not doing) these things on purpose. I could just imagine her thinking "SURELY, a person would do this" or "Surely, a person would not do that." She gets no consideration, so she understandably feels he deliberately does (or not do) these things and would accuse him or call him a liar when he tried to explain what actually happened. 

Do you get where I'm going with this?

Your wife communicates the way she communicates, but that doesn't mean she communicates the way she does just to annoy you. You get annoyed by it, but your annoyance wasn't her goal. There's no "design to irritate" you in mind. If you think about this and not rack your brain trying to figure out how to respond, you'll have fewer occasions of irritation, rather than blame her for your annoyance.

That whole scene was just the most ridiculous thing, especially when you consider that she could have had the cats fed in a lot less time than that exchange took. You tell us we don't know her, which was your way of saying some of the assessments or solutions that were offered didn't apply or wouldn't work. But what you don't get is that your wife is not your mother, yet you've acted like she was all these years. You've come to dread her reactions when you should have nipped that in the bud when it first began or at least by the second or third time. You don't appreciate the way she veils her commands as requests and then makes sure you answer the way she wants as if you are her child. I get that. But you've taken it and tried to adjust your responses to prevent her wrath. And now you don't know what to say and are afraid to respond genuinely.

As a result, you are as much at fault for your own annoyance and these insane exchanges as she is. I don't know how you can, at this late date, change this dynamic without causing animosity, but I suggest you do something before the two of you drive each other insane for real. You want to know how to be authentic? You sit your wife down and be authentic. Tell her how you feel. Let her know what you really don't like, and suggest how she could pose questions and requests differently. But, by no means, should you accuse her of deliberately trying to annoy you.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I agree with @DownByTheRiver

Also, your Turing her Into mean mommy and your the child. And that is a terrible dynamic to be in. 

I too would be resentful if I feel like you are taking advantage of the situation with your procedure. And when we are resentful sometimes our tone may not be nice and sometimes we are purposely not nice in our speech. This beats strangling you which is what she probably wants to do.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, if she's gone a lot and she's worrying about whether stuff gets done, you need to be more reassuring and vocal and let her know what you're going to do and that you've done it, I guess. Just try to beat her to it. She's dressing to leave, say, I'll feed the cat this morning and go to the store. After you feed the cat, tell her Just fed the cat. She sounds like she doesn't think she can trust you to do it on your own. And because your first post was making excuses why you're in bed, etc., she may have a point. Anyway, this is something you can fix, so start getting a step ahead of her and vocalizing your intent and what you did.


I really disagree with this, Matador. If anything, you need to turn the tables on her and do the exact same things she does. Again, I'm saying you are not her child, but she treats you like one, and you keep letting her. Mothers leave instructions for their kids as they run out the door. Mothers remind their kids to do their chores or tell them to do things after they are already done. Mothers ask "Did you hear me?" when they know full well the kid heard them. This crap is demeaning. And you need to put a stop to it, rather than trying to appease her or trying to beat her to the punch of her demands. You've already been told women don't respect wimpy men. That's why you're going through this. Sit her down like I suggested and set her straight.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I’m not a fan of staying in a dysfunctional marriage. I did that far longer than I should have. Fear kept me where I was. I finally divorced late in life. My only regret? That I didn’t get out decades before.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If he sets her straight but doesn't change his behavior, it's the cats that will suffer.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

There is a lot going on here. First off.. is her saying the cats need to be fed really a big deal? Is her intent to be a jerk? Or is this just how she talks. I talk like this, and it is not meant to be rude. 

If this is just how she talks, then you need to take it with a grain of salt and let it go. But if you think she is purposely saying these things just to be rude to you, you need to figure out why. Is it because she thinks your lazy? Is it because she doesn't like you? Is it because she is trying to desrespect you? To me honest if I thought my SO was doing something on purpose to make me mad I would need to know why, and what I did to deserve such treatment. I personally don't know how you can be married to someone and not need to know these answers. 
Then I winder, do you not want to know these answers because you don't care? You don't want confrontation, you just want "peace" which to me means you just want to be left alone.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If he sets her straight but doesn't change his behavior, it's the cats that will suffer.


HAHAHAHA
Probably true!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

You’ve been given some good insights. Including potentially why you do this.

So all I have to offer is how my husband communicates with me as a suggested starting point. I’m guilty of occasionally stating ‘Such and such needs doing..’. Which is my way of asking, ahem, telling. His response has been along the lines of, ‘Why are you telling me/ okay so what are you going to do about it?’ Message instantly received by me. I’ll reframe to ask him, or make a light-hearted response. Sometimes he’ll say, ‘No worries, I’ll take care of it’ but depends on the situation, and prefers that I ask.

I could imagine saying, ‘the cats need to be fed’ and him responding, ‘go on, then’. My personal response would be to either laugh and do it myself. Or ask ‘can you please..’

I don’t know if this is helpful at all.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

heartsbeating said:


> You’ve been given some good insights. Including potentially why you do this.
> 
> So all I have to offer is how my husband communicates with me as a suggested starting point. I’m guilty of occasionally stating ‘Such and such needs doing..’. Which is my way of asking, ahem, telling. His response has been along the lines of, ‘Why are you telling me/ okay so what are you going to do about it?’ Message instantly received by me. I’ll reframe to ask him, or make a light-hearted response. Sometimes he’ll say, ‘No worries, I’ll take care of it’ but depends on the situation, and prefers that I ask.
> 
> ...


Thanks that is how I wish it was. I can’t imagine my wife responding the way you describe though. And I have replied the way you describe your hubby doing. Still, I agree with you and wish I had the wit at the time rather than later. Maybe when I’m better.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

If I were recovering from surgery and my husband called out that the dogs need to be fed, my response would be "So feed them". Seriously, lol.

That said, pouring some food into a bowl for the cats (or dogs) is hardly an arduous task, even for someone recovering from surgery.

OP you need to toughen up - either say you'll do it later or, that you can't and can she please do it.

It really is that simple.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hinterdir said:


> If you are supposed to stay in bed to rest what I am assuming is an incision then I would say, I cannot get up, you feed it/them please.
> If you are recovering why is she asking you to do physical tasks?
> 
> Everyone is responding as if there is some long history and other posts you've made and they all seem familiar with your backstory. I am not.
> If I am recovering from surgery I just say, I need to stay in bed you feed them. I'd probably say "you know I am recovering and need to stay in bed why are you even asking me to get up?"


He's not bed ridden or on complete bed rest.



matador1958 said:


> I agree, I am part of the problem, I doormat easily without realising it at the time.* The clever thing is she knows I could feed the cats, as I’m meant to keep mobile to prevent DVT*, just the way she said it seemed designed to irritate me without sounding too bad. I know her you don’t, I know the games she plays. But yeah it’s up to me, you’re right, I just need to remember at the time it happens.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

matador1958 said:


> Very good question. Answer: she is very opposed to be “the one who does x”, in the way of housework, and besides that she’s out or away a hell of a lot and I generally do everything other than cook delicious meals and ironing her clothes. Having said that I do feel she might be persuaded.


Where does she go? Does she have a job? 
Do you have a job?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> This is foolishness... Of course she asked you. If this is HOW YOU communicate, the you may be some of the problem.
> 
> Like @Livvie said, either learn how to communicate, for real not this crap here, or end the relationship.
> 
> ...


But if he is that poorly, recuperating from surgery, maybe it's a question that shouldn't have been asked?

"Don't worry about the cats, dear! I've just fed them" is what my wife would have said under similar circumstances and it's what I would have said, too.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Where does she go? Does she have a job?
> Do you have a job?


She does lunch with friends, coffee with friends, yoga, meditation, mindful self compassion, picnics on our allotment with her friends, flower arranging and sometimes proof reading and writing, which she is very good at bringing in 20% of our household income. She used to go out clubbing and to gigs before the lockdown. With me sometimes. You know when an individual exchange is not just that but represents a whole attitude? OK I was triggered,,I know it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> But if he is that poorly, recuperating from surgery, maybe it's a question that shouldn't have been asked?
> 
> "Don't worry about the cats, dear! I've just fed them" is what my wife would have said under similar circumstances and it's what I would have said, too.


Something tells me he wasn't worried about the cats at all.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

matador1958 said:


> She does lunch with friends, coffee with friends, yoga, meditation, mindful self compassion, picnics on our allotment with her friends, flower arranging and sometimes proof reading and writing, which she is very good at bringing in 20% of our household income. She used to go out clubbing and to gigs before the lockdown. With me sometimes. You know when an individual exchange is not just that but represents a whole attitude? OK I was triggered,,I know it.


I your area no longer on COVID19 shutdown?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

matador1958 said:


> She does lunch with friends, coffee with friends, yoga, meditation, mindful self compassion, picnics on our allotment with her friends, flower arranging and sometimes proof reading and writing, which she is very good at bringing in 20% of our household income. She used to go out clubbing and to gigs before the lockdown. With me sometimes. You know when an individual exchange is not just that but represents a whole attitude? OK I was triggered,,I know it.


Hmmm. So you bring in 80% of the household income and do most of the chores while she mostly plays and goes clubbing which occasionally includes you?

Interesting relationship you have going here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

matador1958 said:


> OK I was triggered,,I know it.


A couple goes to a marriage counselor. The man is talking, telling the couselor what he thinks the problems are that they need to address. Suddenly the wife blurts out "BUT HE NEVER PUTS THE TOP BACK ON THE TOOTHPASTE!!!!" With that shocking revelation, the counselor calms her down and then tells the couple. "I did not realize your marriage this far gone. Clearly there is nothing i can do to help you. You two just need to file for divorce."

What's the moral of that story? That when they start complaining about the little nonsense stuff, it means that the relationship is probably completely broken. It's not the tooth paste. It's that in her eyes his very existence is an annoyance. This can be fixed and the marriage recovered, but only if both are willing to work to build the relationship from the bottom up.

From what you are saying here, this is what your situation sounds like. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her asking you to feed the cat. And yea, it was basically her asking you because you could have just told her that you would not do it. She is not your boss. But you seem to find just about everything about her annoying. And I'll bet she feels the same about you.

So why are you staying married to someone who is basically using you to support her so that she can life a life of fun and leisure? You putting up with his is on you.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Where does she go? Does she have a job?
> Do you have a job?





matador1958 said:


> She does lunch with friends, coffee with friends, yoga, meditation, mindful self compassion, picnics on our allotment with her friends, flower arranging and sometimes proof reading and writing, which she is very good at bringing in 20% of our household income. She used to go out clubbing and to gigs before the lockdown. With me sometimes. You know when an individual exchange is not just that but represents a whole attitude? OK I was triggered,,I know it.


If you are with someone who likes to go out clubbing (acting single...drinking, men on the prowl, dancing, single people looking to meet) while in a relationship I'd say you have picked poorly, she is not the good girlfriend/wife type and you are in for a life of misery and heartache.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

matador1958 said:


> Thanks that is how I wish it was. I can’t imagine my wife responding the way you describe though. And I have replied the way you describe your hubby doing. Still, I agree with you and wish I had the wit at the time rather than later. Maybe when I’m better.


Well, thanks to your thread I caught myself earlier... said, 'Well, you need to let the dogs back in if they start barking.' Then realizing, said straight after, 'Could you please let the dogs back in if they start barking?' He laughed and appreciated the re-framing.

I hope you can follow some of the suggestions made in this thread, for your own benefit. It sounds like there may be more to the dynamic between you in terms of shared responsibilities and lifestyles.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> A couple goes to a marriage counselor. The man is talking, telling the couselor what he thinks the problems are that they need to address. Suddenly the wife blurts out "BUT HE NEVER PUTS THE TOP BACK ON THE TOOTHPASTE!!!!" With that shocking revelation, the counselor calms her down and then tells the couple. "I did not realize your marriage this far gone. Clearly there is nothing i can do to help you. You two just need to file for divorce."
> 
> What's the moral of that story? That when they start complaining about the little nonsense stuff, it means that the relationship is probably completely broken. It's not the tooth paste. It's that in her eyes his very existence is an annoyance. This can be fixed and the marriage recovered, but only if both are willing to work to build the relationship from the bottom up.


This is GOLD.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

i hate it when people try to get you to do something without actually asking you.

I once had a (male) coworker who would ask, "NTA, would you like some coffee?" I learned that saying yes, would only end with, "why don't you make some." to that question, I learned to say no and let him move on to the next (female) co worker in the office.

My mother has indirect ways of supplying "advice", usually outdated and useless. I was once telling her that in finding a new oncologist, I need to send a candidate the letters that I had already received when I was on the NHS. My mother just had to say "Do you think it would be a good idea to make photocopies of each letter and that way, you still have a copy for yourself." Why is my mother giving me advice ...... _in that oh so helpful way_ ...... that was suitable if only we were living in the 1970s.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@matador1958 

I suggest stepping back and working on yourself.

You are coming off as too weak and compliant and your relationship is severely lopsided.

Complaining to your wife or trying to discuss it with her will more than likely not work or even make it worse.

There is a dynamic I have witnessed often about men and women though there are always exceptions so I hope no one gets ruffled feathers.

There is often a weird dynamic between men and women where men can become too accommodating and too laid back.

This eventually causes some form of unease or discomfort or even insecurity in their women and regardless of what might be bothering them, the women in these situations start **** testing, disrespecting and/or pushing boundaries with their men.

I've experienced it throughout my marriage and I see it happening with both my sons and I've seen it in multiple relationships with friends.

Setting up things right when this happens does not include rational conversations with your wife. It takes calmly reestablishing your agency.

I'll give you a very recent example from my marriage.

I am not considered weak or a pushover at all IRL. I'm the kind of guy that criminals avoid and anyone looking for conflict gives me a wide birth because I'll probably step on them. 

I'm also extremely generous and loving towards my wife. I am constantly considering her and her wants and needs in every day life. I wait on her, cook for her and I'm always bringing her little gifts and treats.

I recently noticed her behavior getting a little stinky towards me about my desire to go to the gym. She works out differently than me and has her own schedule so we don't always click on our days and routines.

She was showing annoyance and displeasure with me going to simply take care of myself.

She was also whining about a lot more and generally being unpleasant for no good reason.

I had been responding to her as I usually did by being considerate of her feelings and trying to accommodate until I caught on that she was **** testing me.

I do not believe for a second that it is intentional on her part. It appears to be some form of instinct. I don't believe most of this behavior is thought out but it does come out as taking a husband for granted, walking on him and disrespecting him.

I corrected it once I saw it happening by telling her I was going to the gym. I told her like it was as simple as going to the restroom and I was calm. I knew, based on her previous behavior, that she was going to show displeasure and disagree with my decision to do something for myself. I didn't ask her if she wanted to go or consider her input in any way about my decision to do something for myself.

When she frowned at me and started complaining, I didn't get upset or even argue. I stayed calm and even smiled because I realized that I needed to stop basing my decisions on her attitude or emotions. I needed to do things for myself and not let her attitude ruffle me at all.

You know what? She needed that to. After she saw that I was unperturbed, unswayed and still calmly loving her despite her behavior, she almost immediately started behaving better and I could see she was more at peace.

I don't know exactly why this dynamic happens but it does a lot.

I have a friend that has been bending over backwards trying to make his wife happy and the more he capitulated, the more shrewish and disrespectful she became.

At one point, she ordered him to go out and sleep in their RV. I told him to not only refuse but to stand up to her and sleep in his own bed and to tell her she was more than welcome to sleep somewhere else.

He did as I instructed and, what do you know, she almost immediately became more peaceful and respectful of him.

This isn't every woman of course but there seem to be a lot of them and it appears to be instinctive rather than intentional.

My advice to you is to calmly start doing somethings for yourself, stop doing most of the chores, you should be going out to play without her like she is doing.

There are probably some books that could help give you some tips but I have never needed them in this situation.

@farsidejunky might have some resources to help you with your situation.

Hoping the best for you and your marriage.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Livvie said:


> If you can't communicate to her that you are in so much pain from surgery that you'd appreciate it if she fed the cats (and really, why the *** is she even asking you to do it) because of the *** storm that would ensue, IT IS TIME TO FREE YOURSELF FROM THIS RELATIONSHIP.
> 
> Like, yesterday.


The only problem with this approach is that he will likely experience the exact same thing in his next relationship.

OP, why are you afraid of your wife?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

matador1958 said:


> Totally, and believe me I feed those cats more than she does, along most other household stuff, the question I have is why was I knocked off balance by her statement? Probably because I recognized as another sign of her never actually asking me to do anything. Always just presenting me with a need and expecting me to deal with it like I was just jangimgvaroundcwaitingvto be given instructions. And I failed again to respond authentically, why?


You were knocked off balance because you know you should have stood up for yourself, but you didn't.

This causes you to lose respect and love for yourself. 

How did you feel about YOU when you didn't do what you know you should have done?

Then, you turn that anger and apply it to her...where it is misplaced. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

StarFires said:


> I really disagree with this, Matador. If anything, you need to turn the tables on her and do the exact same things she does. Again, I'm saying you are not her child, but she treats you like one, and you keep letting her. Mothers leave instructions for their kids as they run out the door. Mothers remind their kids to do their chores or tell them to do things after they are already done. Mothers ask "Did you hear me?" when they know full well the kid heard them. This crap is demeaning. And you need to put a stop to it, rather than trying to appease her or trying to beat her to the punch of her demands. You've already been told women don't respect wimpy men. That's why you're going through this. Sit her down like I suggested and set her straight.


Soak this in, OP.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

I would recommend that you get a copy of Athol Kay's book, The Married Man Sex Life Primer. In it he writes how to do exactly what ConanHub is telling you. Put it into practice and get your balls back.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> @matador1958
> 
> I suggest stepping back and working on yourself.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I completely agree and I have found that to be the case with me and her. Although only for a short while. I have to be consistent. I genuinely want to be considerate, and also whenever she's upset (fundamentally about being barren) she starts complaining to me viciously about every time she has perceived the slightest inconsiderateness or slight or fault in me over the years, and the more I fail to rise to the bait the more distressed she gets - it's quite frightening actually, so although she does react how you describe, there's more going on with her - PTSD and a narcisstic personality. Also with me - years of verbal and emotional abuse has taken it's toll on me and I don't react the best way - too often either freezing or withdrawing or getting confused. But thanks for your advice, becasue it chimes with what I've read and what others have said and with what I've seen myself, so it's encouraging.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> The only problem with this approach is that he will likely experience the exact same thing in his next relationship.
> 
> OP, why are you afraid of your wife?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


That's a very good question. So I've thought about it. I've coe to the view that 'm not scared of her. I'm scared of hurting her. I don't want to be the bad guy. I think that's not healthy for me. This was not how my previous relationship went at all, that was good and fun. I didn't marry that one because I felt it was too soon after my divorcing my first wife ( I was stronger than I guess!) Perhaps there's somehting about commitment that makes some partners of either se think they can get away with anything, like the own their partner.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

matador1958 said:


> That's a very good question. So I've thought about it. I've coe to the view that 'm not scared of her. I'm scared of hurting her. I don't want to be the bad guy. I think that's not healthy for me. This was not how my previous relationship went at all, that was good and fun. I didn't marry that one because I felt it was too soon after my divorcing my first wife ( I was stronger than I guess!) Perhaps there's somehting about commitment that makes some partners of either se think they can get away with anything, like the own their partner.


On an instinctual level, she knows you will back down...and she is using it against you. And the worst part about is that it leads to her further losing respect for you. 

Let that soak in. Your "doing something for her" is sabotaging her respect for you. You are enabling it to happen. 

You need to start using boundary statements.

1. "I'm not okay with x." Yelling, screaming, manipulation, whatever it is. You have a right to peace. She needs to be told so in a short, concise manner. 

2. "I'm sorry you feel that way." Use it when she demeans you or gives an opinion of you that you know to be untrue. 

3. "I see it differently." Use it when she falsely characterizes your words or actions.

4. "Are you done?" Use it when you feel like you are about to have to repeat 1-3. Then walk away. 

5. "You do what you feel you have to do. I will do the same." Use this for any sort of threats. 

When you use these statements, they must be done in a calm, dispassionate manner. What she is trying to do is provoke an emotional reaction from you. Don't allow it. 

The true beauty in them is that they allow you to simultaneously communicate a boundary AND avoid engagement.

Lastly, you need to dig in to why you chose her in therapy, as well as why you didn't choose the previous one. Your reasoning sounds suspect to me. Some of us (myself included) seek out relationships that are challenging based on our upbringing, and we dismiss the ones that are easy because we feel something must be wrong, or we don't deserve it. Even if that is not the case for you, it is worth unpacking. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

Thanks that’s helpful. Or at least it will he sometimes. One of her Biggest Gripes about me is that I don’t get upset. She will literally persist in her misery and anger until I break down in despair. I’m not going to do that any more, you have encouraged me to be more prompt in setting the boundaries rather than sticking up for myself in whatever she’s accusing me of. In fact she was so frustrated in my lack of rage and tears that she yelled that I’m autistic and pressured me to get assessed. Then when this reknown expert reported that I wasn’t, my wife ranted against her and demanded I agree. If a child threw a strop like her you’d send her to her bedroom without supper or TV, but she’s legally an equal adult. She is also an incredibly talented and interesting woman who I care deeply about.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You do realize that if you did have children with her it’s very likely your relationship would be even worse, right? You are the typical Nice Guy and she’s the typical person who marries a Nice Guy and then runs all over him because he allows it. People like that feel that having a ring on their finger entitles them to say and do whatever they choose to their spouse. A few change but most don’t.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Ever consider that possibly she could be the one on the spectrum? Rage is a clue.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

matador1958 said:


> Thanks that’s helpful. Or at least it will he sometimes. One of her Biggest Gripes about me is that I don’t get upset. She will literally persist in her misery and anger until I break down in despair. I’m not going to do that any more, you have encouraged me to be more prompt in setting the boundaries rather than sticking up for myself in whatever she’s accusing me of. In fact she was so frustrated in my lack of rage and tears that she yelled that I’m autistic and pressured me to get assessed. Then when this reknown expert reported that I wasn’t, my wife ranted against her and demanded I agree. If a child threw a strop like her you’d send her to her bedroom without supper or TV, but she’s legally an equal adult. She is also an incredibly talented and interesting woman who I care deeply about.


"I will not remain in a relationship with someone who intentionally attempts to provoke my anger. On this, you have a choice whether to take action to build our relationship...or destroy it."

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Let me also add this:

You had damn well better mean it. Never...ever...ever play brinkmanship unless you are willing to go over the brink. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> My guess is fear of confrontation. Poorly learned skills during childhood. Passive-aggressive tendencies. Want to be seen as the innocent victim in the scenario.
> 
> 
> JMO.


You're absolutely right about this. But the moment you're not passive-aggressive, most people can't handle it, and you're labeled all of these crazy things...it's sad really.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Openminded said:


> Ever consider that possibly she could be the one on the spectrum? Rage is a clue.


That had crossed my mind, too.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

You have to stand up for yourself. I was a nice guy and my wife pushed and pushed, got angry and loud. One day it flipped a switch in me. I have told her in the past, "The louder you talk at me the less i listen" and "When you can speak in a civil tone we can talk" and walk away. She is not that way now, i have changed myself in what i tolerate.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

GC1234 said:


> You're absolutely right about this. But the moment you're not passive-aggressive, most people can't handle it, and you're labeled all of these crazy things...it's sad really.


Only if you replace passive-aggressive with active-aggressive.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Only if you replace passive-aggressive with active-aggressive.


AKA being assertive? I meant when a person is assertive, but sure, same difference.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

GC1234 said:


> AKA being assertive? I meant when a person is assertive, but sure, same difference.


Aggressive is not the same as assertive.


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