# 71 year old man invading our marriage. Sweet? Or Creepy??



## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

So here is the deal. I am 39, my wife is 37. We have two sons, age 1 and 3. My wife met this older couple, Robert (71) and Diane (68), at her job two years ago. They are both retired volunteers at my wife's job. My wife befriended them and became closer and closer friends with them as time went along. So close, that they are now coming over to our house constantly, and being part of every single family event. They baby-sit when we need help, and Robert often builds wooden toys for our sons. Sounds sweet, right?..well..they are, but there is something I just don't like about Robert. Here is a rundown:

-When we are alone in a room, he barely ever makes conversation with me ... often, he will just play with this phone, looking up random things on Google. But, when my wife comes into the room, he instantly lights up and becomes chatty (with her, not me). 

-When sitting down for dinner, he laughs at many jokes...but not the case when I poke innocent fun at my wife. You can hear the crickets chirping when I make any type of joke about my wife. He seems VERY protective of her and will never even crack a smile. (these are innocent jokes, not offensive or rude jokes)

-Before meeting my wife, Robert never texted anybody..he barely even texted his wife. But NOW, he texts MY wife SEVERAL times a day, both morning and night. (I know this because Diane called him out on it one night--he didn't seem to thrilled about that) I don't hack into her phone, but I do see an occasional message when the phone is nearby and it lights up with a new text from Robert. It appears he likes to text her about every boring, random thing that happens with him.

-Despite seeing her multiple times a week, Robert still gives my wife extra long hugs when he comes to our house (both on arrival, and departure)....he often hugs her tight and rubs her back....I sometimes wonder if his hand will ever slip down to her butt??

-One day he came over to do a project when my wife was not present. He built a wood toy box for my sons. When finished, I graciously offered to pick up lunch from his favorite restaurant for his hard work. He wanted nothing to do with it. He left my house immediately after finishing the project (he said he was "dirty" and needed to go home to clean up and go to bed)... if my wife was here that day, I guarantee he would have had a different answer, and probably would have stayed for several hours after finishing the project.

-Me and my wife barely have anytime at all to ourselves, but we do commit to booking private get-aways for ourselves. (2 or 3-day stays at B&B's in beachtowns)...we are lucky to get a week's worth of "alone vacation time" in an entire year, and Robert is FULLY aware of that. Despite being fully aware of that, Robert insisted that me and my wife take a week long vacation with him and Diane to New York (we live in Florida)...I was bothered that he wanted to take away our precious alone time..and even more bothered that my wife considered it. I was the one who had to reject the idea. I would have been a "4th wheel" on that trip.

-Robert likes to give the impression that he is in love with our sons and craves to see them all of the time. But it appears he says that just to have excuses to come over to our house to see my wife. He will "put his time in" by holding our 1 yr old for 15 minutes, but then dedicate the rest of the night by engaging in conversation with my wife. And, back to the joke telling...he laughs at the dumbest jokes my wife can think of. He is like a nervous boy on a first date with a girl, laughing at everything that comes out of the girl's laugh. (the laugh often seems forced and fake). He actually had to go out of town for a month recently, to help his wife, Diane, with her son's family. When he arrived back home from the trip, he made sure to be at work every day to see my wife. He also made sure that my wife was there to pick him up at the airport when he arrived back in town..and then proceeded to treat her to dinner at a restaurant before she drove him home...he went crazy not seeing my wife for a month, and immediately made up for lost time...but as for our sons that he "LOVES SOOO MUCH,"...it took him 8 days before he came over to see them. Interesting.

-He always finds a way to "invade" special events. For example, on Halloween, we had plans to celebrate the night with another couple and trick or treat around our neighborhood together with our kids, and then some drinks afterwards. Robert invited himself over so him and Diane could see our kids in costume. He advised that he would just stay for 10 minutes, and then return back to their own home to give out candy. Yea right! That 10 minutes turned into 3 hours.

-In one of the texts that lit up next to me, I saw a message that started "How is my sweetheart daughter doing today?" ... I was offended on behalf of my wife's mother, who single-handedly raised my wife and her sister until they were 20 years old. As a parent of two boys, I would be offended to hear somebody else refer to my boys as "My sweet son"...I am the one who spent countless and sleepless hours raising those boys. Knowing and befriending somebody for a couple years does not give you the right to call them "DAUGHTER"

-Another interesting fact is that Robert has one daughter, aged 40, who lives near him, but she has virtually dis-owned him. He has no contact with her, unless Robert's ex-wife sends her over to his house to pick up an alimony check....I am always curious of what happened to make his daughter dis-own him? Perhaps he is using my wife as his daughter's replacement? His wife, Diane, has two kids and 3 grandkids. He has no grandkids.

.....I could probably find more things that bother me, but those are the ones off the top of my head. What do you all think? I am just a jealous of a 71-year old that has gained the admiration of my wife? (she happily returns all of his texts...although, I do think he is always the one initiating the texts, and my wife is too polite to not respond to any of them)... Or is this guy a little too deep in our family? I just don't think this behavior is normal, especially the constant texting. God knows that if he was 41 instead of 71, then there would be some serious issues here with that behavior...but where do we make the "cut-off" in that area? 50? 60? 70? Does being an older, retired man over 70 automatically exclude you from "creepy" status??


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Time to tell your wife that there need to be some new boundaries and rules. Then you and she need to begin to enforce them. It will be awkward, and you might completely lose the couple as friends, but if that happens, it sounds like it won't be a great loss for you.

Read my thread about "uninviting" a couple that I had invited for Thanksgiving. If you are getting weird vibes from him, don't ignore your gut. I'm sure the people I uninvited don't like me as much as they used to (if at all) but at least my children aren't being creeped out, and we don't have to make excuses anymore for why we don't want to come over and play (boring) games. We love games, but they only want to play one game all the time. They are a bit pushy, and love to do all the talking, not really interested in us, so the relationship was one sided anyway.

The couple you are talking about must have other friends. Two less (or 4 if you count your children) friends for them won't be the end of the world. If you are their only friends, you might wonder why that is.

Regarding the age cutoff: there is none. Creepy is creepy no matter the age.

Now if they were your adopted grandparents and you felt that way about them, the situation would be different. But the guy is excluding you, and it doesn't matter how old he is, that is not appropriate.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Thank you so much for your reply. Much appreciated! 
Yes, I would be just fine with un-inviting them, but the thing that makes this so tricky is that my wife LOVES them!! She is always so excited and giddy when they come over to our house. She loves to have a beer with Robert and listen to all of his stories from the Navy, and discuss the next project that he can do for us.

And no, they don't really have any friends. Robert was always a hard-ass at work, and never got close to anybody except my wife. They hang out with another couple for dinner about once or twice a month, but other than that, they have nobody else to hang out with here. Diane has her kids and grandkids, but they live in South Dakota and California.
I feel that if I address this issue with my wife, she will be very defensive of Robert and call me anti-social for not wanting to hang out with him and Diane. I feel that if I address this with her, it will almost automatically put her "in the middle" and force her to pick a side. She would likely resent me for quite a while if I put her in that situation. I'm not even sure she would believe everything I wrote about in my initial post. Robert acts like a true saint around my wife--I have seen sides of him that he will probably never let her see. Sometimes, the devil in me hopes he would one day accidentally get caught doing something creepy in my house when he thinks I'm not looking (like a butt tap/pinch), to give me an excuse to kick him out of my house, FOR GOOD!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It does sound "creepy," but I think that there could well be an aura of innocence here as he has injected himself as your W's surrogate father.

This well could have occurred after his own daughter rejected him! I really think that he means well, but is so ensconced in his new internally-perceived, father/grandfather status! Deep-down, I think that he means well, although it does sound rather "creepy!"

To that end, I wouldn't recommend personally coming down on him, but I think that softly conveying to your W your feelings of concern about him would be more than enough!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Yep. Bad news. Danger. Time for you and the wife to have a long conversation. This guy has designs on your wife and not only is he trying to insinuate himself in, he's also trying to push you out.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Yes, sometimes, I think he is trying to push me out. I also thinks he is fully aware that I am not his biggest fan. Lately, I have given him a bit of a cold shoulder during his visits to our house (I am at a point where I can't pretend to be excited with him around). He knows it, but that is not stopping him one bit.

...I remember a conversation he had about his ex-wife. He talked of a moment he was at a social event shortly after their divorce. It was an event in which a mutual friend had invited both of them to attend. During the event, Robert engaged in a conversation with a very close friend of his ex-wife. During the conversation, Robert could sense that his ex-wife was bothered by the fact that her friend was enjoying her talk with him....Robert noticed this, and immediately made a concerted effort to make the conversation last much longer than he had originally anticipated, all in spite of his ex-wife ......after hearing this story, it makes me wonder if he would be the same way with me when noticing my dis-interest in his presence around my wife and family.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

It sounds like this man likes your wife. Most likely harmless. That said, trust your gut on the "creep" thing.

Why doesn't this man's own daughter like him? There is always a story...


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

You need to discuss this with your wife. Be tactful and try and find the right timing.

Have the conversation right after a time where old man and his wife either just over stayed their welcome, etc. Timing is key.

Boundary discussion time.

Non stop texting? Is it daily and throughout the day? That's getting a bit too much. You really need to get boundaries in place.

Any chance you can discuss this with creepy's wife? A jealous wife would be the quickest way to nip this.....

Trust your gut my friend. This guy definitely is way too into your wife. The dismissive behavior with you around is the point you need to assert yourself. I'd kiss your wife in front of him and be super lovey with her. Flirt with her in front of him and talk about "making" another baby, etc. That kinda of alpha stuff, well timed, will sting his brain cells and IT WORKS.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

miketownsend11 said:


> Thank you so much for your reply. Much appreciated!
> Yes, I would be just fine with un-inviting them, but the thing that makes this so tricky is that my wife LOVES them!! She is always so excited and giddy when they come over to our house. She loves to have a beer with Robert and listen to all of his stories from the Navy, and discuss the next project that he can do for us.


There's a glaring reason for him to stick around; he loves the adoring attention your wife gives him. If she has not had a father figure in her life before, then maybe she is enjoying the feeling of having one now.

I can definitely understand why you'd feel off about this, but I don't think it would be wise to make yourself the outsider in the friendship. I do however think that more boundaries have to be set. 

I wouldn't want someone visiting me constantly no matter who it was. Everyone needs their personal space and they are encroaching on yours. Your wife may have no problem with it, but you live in the house too and your feelings matter. I think you should talk to her about only seeing them once a week at most. Tell her that you need space and you feel crowded at home, and that you want to spend a majority of your time with just you, her and the kids. I think that's very normal. I wouldn't make it about them in particular, or say derogatory stuff about them.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

He strikes me as a Billie Goat. An aged, well past his prime narcissistic player. I would work to discretly approach his daughter to discuss how she viewed her father. 

As to the charity work angle, I have found there are two types of people who stay involved in charity work, Saints and demons. which is he? 

The first qualification of an individual to a married person is are they a friend of the marriage. He is not a friend of the marriage. The question is how toxic is he. Dig deep into his history.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Also read F-102 post on EAs http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/41508-emotional-affairs-sob-story.html and see how many of his points apply. I know he is 71 and your wife will never bed him but for him at this point it maybe a need tp control and influence a women. Just another ego trip for him at the expense of your marriage.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

Hi Mike.

Something similar happened to my marriage and it wasn't fun at all. My wife and I belong to the local nature society, and we're very active as a couple with nature photography spring, summer, fall. 

We were in our late 40s, we met and became pretty good friends with a couple late 60s retired, he was active and a leader in the society, We had meals at their place and had done a quite a bit of day hiking together all over the province, mostly with the husband. His wife was nice, she passed away maybe 2 years into our friendship, old guy now is a widower.

Then my wife became a birder, I have no interest, but I'm fine it's a hobby for her. This old guy now 70 was a great birder. So this evolved into nature society trips I wasn't interested in attending but they would attend. I wanted to trust my wife (Christ the guy is 70 and I thought a friend). Just to set the stage, the reason I'm here at TAM is my wife has had lousy boundaries at times and used to be an embarassing, hurtful flirt.

Then this evolved into society birding they would be in the same car with several other cars. Then the two of them went on a birding trip for the day together alone. Great, I now had to worry about my wife going birding with a 70 yr old guy. What a pain in the ass, not good for the ego either. I'm pissed now at my wife, given our history she knew this should have been a no-no and did it anyway. This old guy called my wife wanting to go on another trip alone with her.

I shut down the friendship shortly after that one and only trip they were alone together. I was unexpectedly home from work in the afternoon (forgot something), just going to leave the house for work again when this old guy rings the doorbell, knowing I was at the office and my wife was home that day. Me: "What's up". Him very sheepishly says "What are you doing here this time of day?" What I should have said, but didn't "No, WTF are you doing here this time of day?" hard to say that a 70 yr old.

Ended a friendship right there. We rarely spoke to him again after that day, wife got the message from me this friendship ends and it did. He passed away a year ago, neither of us attended his funeral. He phoned me when he was terminal wanted to give me one of his really expensive field guides, told him no don't want it, suggested he donate it to the society.

The whole mess created stress for our already rocky marriage and was bloody ridiculous to boot. You don't know quite how to act towards an old coot who seems to be coming on to your wife.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He may be 71 but inside he still thinks of himself as the 18 year old boy he once was. So, yes, he would love nothing more than to make a move on your wife if he thought it would work. He knows the odds of that are slim-to-none so he's getting a thrill from all those long hugs. Your wife probably thinks his attention is innocent (because he's 70 and should be "beyond all that"). But it's not innocent. Your wife fuels his fantasies. He's hoping you won't notice and decide to start ****-blocking him at some point. He thinks he's got a great thing going and he doesn't want you messing it up. You're his rival. Never forget that.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

Have I missed something? Why dont you just go straight to him instead of trying to go through your wife or his?

"Hey Creepy, I notice you seem to have all the time in the world for my wife but dont seem to have two words to say to me, is there a problem?"

Call him out.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Mike,

Sounds to me like your wife got this "friendship" going, and she needs to stop it. It sounds bizarre and it is obvious this man has a thing for your wife because his wife is not being this obsessive and making excuses to be around your wife all the time.

The problem is that your wife does not either recognize, accept what is going on, or SHE LIKE THE ATTENTION , REGARDLESS OF HIS AGE. 
Do not assume he is harmless and unable to have his "equipment " work or want to.

If this is invasive enough for you to post it here, you better have a come to Jesus discussion with your wife and tell her this is going to stop.

Just my opinion.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

To me, this sounds like a surrogate father/daughter relationship for both of them. It's filling a need for both. But, since they are not actually father/daughter, there need to be some boundaries put in place.

It also sounds to me like he doesn't like you, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's because he's trying to get at your wife inappropriately. He might just not like you, as evidenced by him not laughing at your jabs at your wife at the dinner table, which may seem "innocent" to you, but they might not be. I've been the subject of "innocent" jokes by a husband who was actually very unkind, but made excuses for it, saying "Oh I'm only kidding." I'd consider that behavior of yours because maybe he has a point in not laughing.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. 

However, he is right thing, you should be extraordinarily careful about teasing your wife. Few women like that. Sarcasm, for example is a relationship killer. Sarcasm is an insult wrapped with humor. Never use sarcasm with a woman or a young person.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

JJG said:


> Have I missed something? Why dont you just go straight to him instead of trying to go through your wife or his?
> 
> "Hey Creepy, I notice you seem to have all the time in the world for my wife but dont seem to have two words to say to me, is there a problem?"
> 
> Call him out.


I like this advice. He likely see sees it as weakness that you haven't confronted him because what he's doing is so glaringly obvious. 

Even if his intentions were more of a father thing you are her hb and should be respected. 

He's probably thinking that if he was you he would've already kicked his arse and wonders why you don't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> To me, this sounds like a surrogate father/daughter relationship for both of them. It's filling a need for both. But, since they are not actually father/daughter, there need to be some boundaries put in place.
> 
> It also sounds to me like he doesn't like you, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's because he's trying to get at your wife inappropriately. He might just not like you, as evidenced by him not laughing at your jabs at your wife at the dinner table, which may seem "innocent" to you, but they might not be. I've been the subject of "innocent" jokes by a husband who was actually very unkind, but made excuses for it, saying "Oh I'm only kidding." I'd consider that behavior of yours because maybe he has a point in not laughing.


Good point. You think the jokes are funny but maybe they're just rude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sun Catcher (Dec 6, 2013)

Do be careful.... Shut this down NOW!

My father was teaching a class at his local church, a couple in their early fifties attended (my father was late 70). Well, a friendship developed and every time i called my Mom she was telling me "the Smith's" were over again. Then they went on holiday to Europe together all Of them. They sat together at church every Sunday. My mother said she was uncomfortable about this relationship, but said also, how the lady laughed at all his jokes (she had heard them millions of times). She said it was good for his ego. Well, mom became ill and couldn't travel so the couple and my father began traveling together. Every time I spoke with my father all he talked about was how wonderful Mrs. Smith was. 

Want the end of the story? My father walked out on my ill mother (she was showing very beginning signs of dementia) when they were both 80. OPOSW was only in her mid 50's. She dumped her age appropriate husband for a man that was her fathers age. 

Don't think the "nice old man" doesn't have designs on your wife and there are obviously women who don't mind grandpa types.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

It's creepy.

Time for some boundaries, and you may wind up needing to eject this guy from your lives altogether.


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## ksrasra (Oct 7, 2015)

Does his daughter have kids? Id be careful around your kids til you know. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Please stop p*ssyfooting around.

Sit your wife down and let her know that you think this guy is a two-faced creep. Tell her that he's putting on an act for her specifically but you see him in a totally different light when she's not there.

Let her know that he is not welcome in your house anymore and then ... call him up and tell him the same thing.

Bad manners? Perhaps, but so what. It's your house. It's your wife. It's your life.


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Yep, shut it down. And like Sun Catcher says don't underestimate him or your wife because of the age factor. She may be attracted to him for a variety of reasons not obvious to you. Heck, Sean Connery is 85 and I bet he can still turn plenty of pretty heads!


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

And just because he's 71 doesn't mean he has no sex drive.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

There are many people who come here who have allowed some situation go gain prominence in their marriage. Wife has a female friend, wife starts running marathons, wife starts a painting class and becomes friends with the instructor... Then there is endless speculation about whether it's a sexual affair... The speculation about the affair or sexual side of it is not important. There is something sitting in your marriage that does not belong in your marriage. It's a destructive force... Somethign coming between the bond you have with your wife. 

Somehow the guy slowly allows this and then recongizes it will be difficult to shut it down. So he comes here asking if it's ok. I usually find that somewhat funny becuase he is describing a situation that is clearly not OK with him, then gets many people to tell him that it's not OK, and it's THEN he tells everyone why he can't do anything about it.

The point of this is you need to cut this marital cancer out. Tell your wife to choose and don't allow her need of a friendship with an old man to be more imporant than her need to be married to you.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Yes, I think it is clear that I need to address the situation in a non-passive manner. My wife's birthday is Monday. Perhaps I will let him enjoy the moment with us, and then contact him soon thereafter to express my concerns, mainly with the constant texting. I will try to do so before Valentines Day, otherwise, this guy will probably buy my wife 500 flowers and make me look like a shmuck. The funny/sad thing is...if I surprised her with a bouquet of flowers at her desk, with no tag on it to indicate who it came from, she would probably think it was from Robert instead of me.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Point taken, Hicks. It just felt good to get reassurance from non-biased strangers who have no ties to anybody that I know.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

oh... I noticed a couple comments about the joking/jabs at my wife. I can assure you that I say nothing offensive. To be honest, she probably pokes more fun at me than I do her. (and she would openly admit that)


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Make sure you show her a good time on her birthday.

I do think it's worth asking why you makes jokes about your wife? Is this something you guys do to each other? Is it possible your wife doesn't like these "jokes"?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

miketownsend11 said:


> oh... I noticed a couple comments about the joking/jabs at my wife. I can assure you that I say nothing offensive. To be honest, she probably pokes more fun at me than I do her. (and she would openly admit that)


Ok, I asked the question before I saw this response. I guess it's ok if it's a dynamic you guys have.....but it is easy to envision a scenario where you think it's kidding and she secretly thinks it's mean.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

@miketownsend11

1) Why are you guys even hanging out with grandpa and grandma anyway? Find some couples friends you're own age?

2) A lot of old men are super creepy. Hopefully you're wife takes in jest and is just humoring him because she pities him.

3) If your wife has ANY intention of ever actually pursuing cheating on you with a 71 yo then, trust me, you don't want her anyway.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Yes, I have a whole day planned for her on Saturday. She will love it!!
...yes, we joke/job each other on a daily basis. A typical jab would be that she snored louder than me last night....pretty innocent, especially when said in front of people that you see multiple times a week.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Oh, yes, we have plenty of friends our age...but these same-aged friends also have plenty of other things going on in their lives...Robert and Diane do not, so they obsess their lives around us.

...No, I don't think even for a second that my wife has a romantic interest in him. As for his mind, I don't know what's going on up there.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

miketownsend11 said:


> express my concerns, mainly with the constant texting.


'Expressing your concerns' can come across as whiny or weak. Tell him you arent happy with his behavior and then have him explain himself. 

If you are the one doing all of the talking in the conversation then you have already lost.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

miketownsend11 said:


> Yes, I think it is clear that I need to address the situation in a non-passive manner. My wife's birthday is Monday. Perhaps I will let him enjoy the moment with us, and then contact him soon thereafter to express my concerns, mainly with the constant texting. I will try to do so before Valentines Day, otherwise, this guy will probably buy my wife 500 flowers and make me look like a shmuck. The funny/sad thing is...if I surprised her with a bouquet of flowers at her desk, with no tag on it to indicate who it came from, she would probably think it was from Robert instead of me.


Why wait? Make your wife's birthday special with just the two of you.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What you have to realize is that this is not going to go smooth. There is no logic. You have a guy who has one person's desires in mind: HIS OWN. He does not care about your kids, your marraige, what is right, what is wrong. He cares about the fun he has in the relationship with your wife. Talking to him to me is not worth your time. 

Your wife also gets alot of out the relationship and won't give it up easily. You have to think about whether your wife will choose you and your marriage or would she choose to divorce you in order to maintin this friendship? If you are not sure you should not ask her to choose.

The really only solution to this is she chooses between this friendship and marriage. There are many reasons I say this, but this is the net. The reason is if you allow some form of a relationship you are setting yourself up to be the daddy or cop that is constantly monitoring... and sets them up with the excitement of "rebelling" against daddy. 

I would tell your wife that you are giving her a special gift for her birthday and that is a marriage. And a marriage inclludes one man and one woman and zero intruders. You are giving 100% of yourself to her and want 100% of her and that it's impossible to have 100% of her with Boob in the picture. 

You will get many justifications from her and Boob about why this is all ok and great and on the up and up but you cannot even involve yourself in entertaining their rationalizations. You are the wall that has one response, which is you want a marriage, this is not a marraige, and if she wants a marriage she needs to make a choice.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

He is invading your privacy. Have a long calm talk with your wife and cut him out. 

People like this will never change and become more of an irritant.

The sooner the better. 

It's your family, your life, period.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Interesting situation.

My feeling is that the 71 year old guy has a combination of a crush on your wife and fatherly feelings toward her. He is most likely filling the void that exists because his own daughter does not get along with him for whatever reason. 

I don't think that he is trying to steal your wife and have you kicked out. He just likes your wife's company and wants to keep things at this level without going further. He probably connects better with your wife than with his wife who may have gotten mentally old while he hasn't. 

From your perspective, this is irritating, so I think you should work on your wife rather than on him. Tell your wife that you don't like this and you should have her slowly make it clear that she does not welcome him anymore. She can stop responding to texts and not be so nice and accommodating towards him. He will get the message and restrict his actions. I think you should do that as step 1 rather than confronting him.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

MikeTownsend,

This post creeps me out because this is similar to the incident which triggered my recovering my marriage.

My W was seeing this 85 year old widower guy every week and would engage in quite the conversation for hours, I like you thought what could be the harm? 

Then my W would drive him home. 

Than my W would talk about his apartment and his fish tanks etc.

Then the OM was making thing for my W and other in my family, crappy craft junk, which I destroyed.

Then my W started taking him places.

In the mean while I was reading on a marriage website. My W said some of the things to me that cheaters say about the person they cheat with or intend to cheat with, to make it seem OK to their husband. I could not sleep for days. 

I put a complete end to it at that time, my W did not resist.

After cutting this off the OM went into a profound depression.

When the OM was dying my W asked if she could visit him I said only if I went along and made my statement.

We did go to the funeral, in my case to size up his family in case my W confesses to something physical. 

Tamat


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

MikeTownsend,

Frankly the OM in your case just sounds like an old player who has adapted to old age.

The OM in my case was a retired doctor and a rather entitled person.

What I suspect about your OM is that his daughter dislikes him because he cheated on her Mother and typically children never forgive the cheating spouse.

The texting is entirely inappropriate.

Tamat


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Wow, Tamat sounds very similar. Only difference would be that Robert's wife is still alive (she ALSO has an enfatuation with my wife, but not quite to the extent that Robert does). I always figured that one day I would be in a situation where I had to deal with some sort of "circumstance" regarding another man that had a crush on my wife, I just never figured it would be a guy that was 34 years older than her!


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

...I was actually talking to my mother in law this morning. She said "Ah, Robert is so sweet. He sent me a text yesterday to thank me for sharing my daughter."

...and I thought to myself...I never received a text that thanked me for sharing my wife?!?!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

miketownsend11 said:


> Oh, yes, we have plenty of friends our age...but these same-aged friends also have plenty of other things going on in their lives...Robert and Diane do not, so they obsess their lives around us.
> 
> ...No, I don't think even for a second that my wife has a romantic interest in him. As for his mind, I don't know what's going on up there.


My advice is you and the wife should dump the friendship. Why complicate this?

Obviously it bothers you so why continue to hang out with them? It has become a problem.

Find some other age appropriate people to hang out with. This is more trouble than its worth.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

miketownsend11 said:


> ...I was actually talking to my mother in law this morning. She said "Ah, Robert is so sweet. He sent me a text yesterday to thank me for sharing my daughter."
> 
> ...and I thought to myself...I never received a text that thanked me for sharing my wife?!?!



I still feel that Robert is getting fatherly and not romantic towards your wife, and that also looks like he is getting possessive and sees you as a competitor to her affections. This sounds silly but very plausible. He does not want you to disappear, but he wants to spend non romantic time with her. Your MIL is no threat, he was just building bridges.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> My advice is you and the wife should dump the friendship. Why complicate this?
> 
> Obviously it bothers you so why continue to hang out with them? It has become a problem.
> 
> Find some other age appropriate people to hang out with. This is more trouble than its worth.


Yes, I this is the right way, but I think it should be done gradually and carefully.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Openminded is right, in my opinion. People his age don't feel old and out of the game. (When you get there, you will understand.)

I would tell him directly to get lost. He's trying to replace you and I doubt that his W appreciates it either.

You're your W's husband. You have every right and reason to take him aside and tell him that he has crossed too many lines and that you don't want him coming around anymore. If he takes it to your W, stand your ground.

He's definitely a creep, and a dangerous one, imo.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

miketownsend11 said:


> ...I was actually talking to my mother in law this morning. She said "Ah, Robert is so sweet. He sent me a text yesterday to thank me for sharing my daughter."
> 
> 
> 
> ...and I thought to myself...I never received a text that thanked me for sharing my wife?!?!



I think the biggest problem you have is you "think to yourself" but don't actually say or do anything about it. It comes off as whiny and cowardly. If you want to keep what you've got you're going to have to find your stones and stand up for yourself. Start c*ckblocking.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

miketownsend11 said:


> Yes, I think it is clear that I need to address the situation in a non-passive manner.* My wife's birthday is Monday. Perhaps I will let him enjoy the moment with us, and then contact him soon thereafter* to express my concerns, mainly with the constant texting. I will try to do so before Valentines Day, otherwise, this guy will probably buy my wife 500 flowers and make me look like a shmuck. The funny/sad thing is...if I surprised her with a bouquet of flowers at her desk, with no tag on it to indicate who it came from, she would probably think it was from Robert instead of me.


Why let him ruin one more day, especially this special day? I don't know how many times I've read BS's say, "I'll confront after (fill in the blank.)" Then they wait until the next event is over and the next. They just don't want to confront because they are uncomfortable afraid of confrontation.

If you are going to cut him out, there is no need to wait. Make an appointment to meet him, and tell him before our wife's birthday.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Also, don't let his age fool you. He is using his age as a guise, thinking that you would never suspect him of anything bad "because he is a 70 year old man." He knows he is pushing you out, that you are not amused with him, that he has one up on you, and that you are letting him get away with it.

Forget how old he is. He is a man, you are a man, and your wife is the coveted prize. Do you think he would turn down your wife for anything (sexual) if she offered it to him? Of course he wouldn't. He would dump his old wife in a second and replace her with your wife if she were willing.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Don't overthink this.

It is not normal. It is not healthy. He has a laser point focus on your wife. He is not a friend of your marriage. He is not adding to the value of your marriage. He is successfully worming his way into your marriage.

Who the heck cares why he is like this........make it end immediately. Show leadership to end this thorn sticking into your marriage.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I agree with @IMFarAboveRubies on why wait to confront. So many BHs put off confrontation to their families peril. I'm sensing fear and weakness in you. It is time to man the F up. To you, your wife is your middle age partner you've had many times. To this old dude, she is a freaking Goddess that he'll move heaven and earth to get a taste of. 

I don't know how many threads I've read of woman in affairs with men WAY older than them. You're thinking like a man. Because you wouldn't be interested in a woman way older than you, you think a woman thinks the same way. This guy can come across as cultured and sophisticated. Why do you think the one of the most common affair partners is a woman's boss.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

JJG said:


> "Hey Creepy, I notice you seem to have all the time in the world for my wife but dont seem to have two words to say to me, is there a problem?"
> 
> Call him out.


I agree. No need to be rude, just straight to the point.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

miketownsend11 said:


> Yes, I think it is clear that I need to address the situation in a non-passive manner. My wife's birthday is Monday. Perhaps I will let him enjoy the moment with us, and then contact him soon thereafter to express my concerns, mainly with the constant texting. I will try to do so before Valentines Day, otherwise, this guy will probably buy my wife 500 flowers and make me look like a shmuck. *The funny/sad thing is...if I surprised her with a bouquet of flowers at her desk, with no tag on it to indicate who it came from, she would probably think it was from Robert instead of me.*


I'm gonna shift gears for a second here...

Do you not buy flowers for your wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

He is a creep. Don't underestimate him or your wife.

I have seen unreal affairs take place between quite old AP's and relatively young WS's.

Stop being a nice guy about this.

Mrs. Conan gets attention from men all the time at gyms.

Some of them much older. All inappropriate towards a married woman.

I am stone cold and no nonsense with them. They are men. They are stupid enough to think her ring doesn't mean anything, until they see me.

Mark your territory and go at this creep directly. Don't ask your wife. Also, romance the hell out of your wife. Don't ask her permission for that either. Just do it.

Start letting a little hell enter your eyes when you look at him. Stop letting this moron impose himself on YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR WIFE!!!

Let him know you have malice for him.

He is treating you like a weak bytch.

Stop letting him.

Your family can't be friends with this guy.

He developed this character his whole life and you will be a little freaked out when you find out his history.

Defend your family. If your wife doesn't like it, too bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> I'm gonna shift gears for a second here...
> 
> Do you not buy flowers for your wife?


Not every guy bothers. This year I bought my own xmas presents from DH and the kids so I didn't end up being the only person with nothing to open (which sux btw).


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

The universal thought I have since joining TAM almost a year ago is that when it's bad enough you start searching the web and join TAM asking for advice on why something seems whacked in your relationship you are already in deep doo doo.

OP, this is one of these "time to man up" moments. Seems you are afraid to be frank and honest with your wife. She probably will start thinking you are being nonsensical at first but you're going to be better off in the end once this is nipped.

You are not at the point of telling Granpa Creepy to get the hell out of your life, but you need to tell your wife all the points you've listed here.

Only you know her and how she responds. Does she accept long explanation and reasoning or is she one of those needs it in small doses to accept?

I personally think the non stop text is concerning. That's private conversation and based on your posts, it's way too frequent for a married woman to be doing. Bad enough he snubs your presence, but he's also getting her attention 1:1. Does your wife tell you when he texts? Have you ever taken a peek at what is being exchanged?

Curious if Grandpa Creepy's wife see's any of this? 

Your hand is forced now if you want to fix this. Trust your gut.



straightshooter said:


> Mike,
> 
> If this is invasive enough for you to post it here, you better have a come to Jesus discussion with your wife and tell her this is going to stop.
> 
> Just my opinion.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You don't talk about Roberts relationship with his own wife. What's that like? 

I think you should sit your wife down and have a serious chat about boundaries. Age has no meaning here. Inappropriate is inappropriate.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

I'm curious as your post assumes he says "don't like it" and his wife says "ok I agree".

But in reading his reply he's already loathing the fact that he thinks W is attached to the guy and if she's trading texts and a lot of interaction then she probably does have some kind of bond form.

But what would your input be to him if she does not agree? 

I do agree first step is talk to the wife. But I also think when it gets to this point where boundaries got pushed too far that there is going to be some bumps in the road as the "friendship" will get ruined in his wifes eyes.

Odds are his wife will say he's "just an old man and friend" so OP gets put in the no-win stance. I think that's where most of the discussion about being frank and nipping comes from. Otherwise he leads Grandpa Creepy to make this a debate for discussion and even worse if OP goes about it too meagrely, then GP gets to make the husband look weak and insecure. Do you also see how as a man the OP get's pinned down?



intheory said:


> mike,
> 
> As you can see, there is pretty much a consensus here that, in some way, this is "off" behavior.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sun Catcher (Dec 6, 2013)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Why let him ruin one more day, especially this special day? I don't know how many times I've read BS's say, "I'll confront after (fill in the blank.)" Then they wait until the next event is over and the next. They just don't want to confront because they are uncomfortable afraid of confrontation.
> 
> If you are going to cut him out, there is no need to wait. Make an appointment to meet him, and tell him before our wife's birthday.



WOW, I had missed that. Thanks IMFAR. YEAH, why are you going to wait for him to ruin one more important day? Start fresh, clean the slate, this birthday should be all about your WIFE and celebrated with HER FAMILY; HUSBAND and CHILDREN. 

OP you are being very foolish if you wait one more day.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Is George a good loking 71 year old or does he look old?


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

I think the point where us men feel an OM needs direct confront is when a wife sees no harm and continues contact. Sometimes it takes a whack of a ruler on the hand to get people to wake up that the problem needs to be addressed.

The handling and timing of these kinds of issues are important. Ideally OP could wait until he sees Grandpa send a text and say to his wife, "babe don't you think he goes to a lot of effort to contact you" as a lead in to the conversation. But if his wife dismisses him outright he basically can't negotiate he then needs to escalate.

In an ideal world, spouses always listen to concerns and heed the advice. My guess is she should have already picked up on the fact that Grandpa puts lots of efforts into being around so she either likes the attention or is totally oblivious to what the guy is doing. 

But I do think you can't totally discount that sometimes a hard confront is necessary because spouses will deny attraction and get defensive. If they are solid eventually they look back and realize why their spouse mate guarded.



intheory said:


> I think the wife should stop all contact with 71 y.o. guy, like, yesterday. And that's all there is to it.
> 
> She's a grown up girl. If her husband (we'll assume she loves her husband) says, "this guy creeps me out, and I'll tell you why; [cites numerous examples]"
> 
> ...


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Is George a good loking 71 year old or does he look old?


I think his name is Robert.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> I think his name is Robert.


Oh right. 
George is actually my boss!!!


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

intheory said:


> I think the wife should stop all contact with 71 y.o. guy, like, yesterday. And that's all there is to it.
> 
> She's a grown up girl. If her husband (we'll assume she loves her husband) says, "this guy creeps me out, and I'll tell you why; [cites numerous examples]"
> 
> ...


If only that were true:

Robert? He harmless
He's just an old man
He loves the kids
The kids love him
Perhaps his sense of humour is different to yours?
He's in his seventies! You're not threatened by him are you?
I think he's just lonely
You think he and I would.. that's sick!
He's married!
You do trust me don't you?
I'm sure he wouldn't do anything inappropriate
I never knew my father and it's nice to have Robert around

I'l stop now because I'm sure you've got the idea. The problem is that Op's wife gets something from this relationship and she'll try every angle to try to hold on to it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

miketownsend11 said:


> So here is the deal. I am 39, my wife is 37. We have two sons, age 1 and 3. My wife met this older couple, Robert (71) and Diane (68), at her job two years ago. They are both retired volunteers at my wife's job. My wife befriended them and became closer and closer friends with them as time went along. So close, that they are now coming over to our house constantly, and being part of every single family event. They baby-sit when we need help, and Robert often builds wooden toys for our sons. Sounds sweet, right?..well..they are, but there is something I just don't like about Robert. Here is a rundown:
> 
> -When we are alone in a room, he barely ever makes conversation with me ... often, he will just play with this phone, looking up random things on Google. But, when my wife comes into the room, he instantly lights up and becomes chatty (with her, not me).
> 
> ...


He has fallen in love with your wife. 

The fact that your wife plays up to this is INCREDIBLY disrespectful to you and his wife. 

This needs to be stopped. NOW!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Oh right.
> George is actually my boss!!!


:lol:


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

azteca1986 said:


> If only that were true:
> 
> Robert? He harmless
> He's just an old man
> ...


Yep! Time to give the old coot the boot!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *It does sound "creepy," but I think that there could well be an aura of innocence here as he has injected himself as your W's surrogate father.
> 
> This well could have occurred after his own daughter rejected him! I really think that he means well, but is so ensconced in his new internally-perceived, father/grandfather status! Deep-down, I think that he means well, although it does sound rather "creepy!"
> 
> ...


What is one common reason for adult daughters to cut off their fathers?

When they cheated on their mother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

intheory said:


> @jdawg2015
> 
> You make a really good case. I mean, I agree with everything you wrote.
> 
> ...


What you're describing is the best outcome for a situation like this.

It is obvious that is not going to happen here. If the wife had a clue and solid boundaries, she would have put the kabosh on the goat a while back.

The OP exhibits "nice guy" tendencies as well and his wife is probably use to dismissing him on many levels.

She probably isn't even conscious of her behavior. We train others how to treat us.

OP needs to summon his inner barbarian and take matters in hand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> What is one common reason for adult daughters to cut off their fathers?
> 
> When they cheated on their mother.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or abused them as minors.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

intheory said:


> Yes, that's a problem. That's the real problem. "Robert" just happened to bring it to light.
> 
> When you are married, you don't get to have arbitrary, feel-good emotional relationships with the opposite sex. Unless you both agree to that dynamic and are comfortable with the consequences.


:iagree:

The real problem here isn't Robert... it's your WIFE. Her boundaries are quite fuzzy on this issue. The fact that she doesn't see this as a problem at all (not considering OP's feelings) is the real problem.

I suspect that she will be very reluctant to give up this relationship and will spin it back on OP as his own "insecurities, unreasonable behavior, jealousy", etc.

Be prepared for this, OP.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Or abused them as minors.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, s**t!

It might even be that the wife is not his target. Maybe the children are his target?

OP, please run his name against sex offender lists ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

intheory, this issue is how I ended up coming to TAM and eventually breaking up with my fiancé. She just could not see how texting other men day or night, including after midnight as something that was a big deal.

So, I ended up having a confront with one of the clowns and it worked. The problem in my case was my fiancé seemed to not get the idea that heading towards marriage meant that some of those guys had to go as they clearly had wanted for YEARS to be her bf. It was the fact I had to convince her to do it that bugged me just like you. In OPs case it's one dude and if done right could help them get boundaries in place before a more dangerous suitor could come along. In my case my fiancé has sh|t boundaries and it basically was like you said, I was having to convince her to see things and it bugged me non stop. One dude and specific case is a lot easier to hit head on then then a general alignment on OSF.

Make sense?



intheory said:


> @jdawg2015
> 
> You make a really good case. I mean, I agree with everything you wrote.
> 
> ...


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

OP this is a very likely scenario.

How do you prepare? If she calls you controlling or jealous you say, "dear I know when things have crossed a line, do you notice how much effort Grandpa puts into you? I'm protecting our marriage and the friendship has gone beyond what I can accept"

Then list the examples. Mention how he dismisses you. 

Hopefully by that point it sinks in heavily at this point that you mean business.

With the right time, you need to tell her that "the friendship with them is just not something you fell comfortable with and you'd like her to stop the texting and all the interaction with them"

Once you've done that she knows where you stand.

Now, you have to decide if she pushes the issue. You want the friendship ended and contact stopped, or do you just want things cut back. Personally I think it should be a cut entirely. But you need to tell her. And be firm, stoic, yet don't yell or get emotional in any way. Look her right in the eyes.



happy as a clam said:


> :iagree:
> 
> The real problem here isn't Robert... it's your WIFE. Her boundaries are quite fuzzy on this issue. The fact that she doesn't see this as a problem at all (not considering OP's feelings) is the real problem.
> 
> ...


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> What is one common reason for adult daughters to cut off their fathers?
> 
> When they cheated on their mother.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Matt: For what it's worth, I cannot even begin to argue with that rationale!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Oh, s**t!
> 
> It might even be that the wife is not his target. Maybe the children are his target?
> 
> ...


This may sound like a stretch ^ but I was thinking the same thing.
This guy sounds like he very well could be only trying to win favor with the wife to get time with the children. 

OP , check him out ASAP . If he has a past history it should be very easy to get rid of him for good.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

RobertTownsend,

BTW one of the other similarities to the 85 year old guy who was involved with my W is the involvement of family and the establishment of secondary relationships to cement his position in your family. 

You mention that your mother in law thinks this guy is really great, the OM in my case also made craft crap for my mother in law and my W got to know his daughters, and I still have to endure their stopping and talking with my W on occasion. 

The thing about an old player is that they know instinctively how to create conflict in an existing relationship, they make themselves look better by doing more than you do, and will run you down in conversation when they get the chance. They will also gather allies to the cause of their own goodness. 

Just curious what was the OMs profession?

Tamat


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

azteca1986 said:


> If only that were true:
> 
> Robert? He harmless
> He's just an old man
> ...


Those are exactly some of the responses I got from wife when there was an old guy orbiting around her. I ended our friendship with him (post #12).


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

His text to her mother is beyond creepy. You need to drive this couple out your life. The question is how without serious blow back.
I drove my wxWW Fbuddy out of my divorce by doing a background search using an on-line company. They provided former address,
Neighbors at former addresses, extended family members with address, arrest and conviction history, judgements against them. The cost was maybe 120.00. It was limited in the sense it provided only info available on line but that was all I needed. 

While after the initial DDay I went 180, the ex tried to justified the adultery with what a great guy he was. My response was to shrug and say really? That's not what Sharon Jones and her room mate say about him. They were neighbors 10 years ago when they lived in ?!!!!. I remember his email to the ex wanting to know who the hell I thought I was. My response was a guy who wanted to know who else had their fingers in my divorce, then stated by the way one or two of his neighbors when he lived at Yyyy 15 years ago say nice things about the family but not him. Third time was the charm. After my EX tried to bring the subject again I asked her how Nancy and Fred (his children were doing) with my ex shacking up in his house when the family was out. That was it, he broke and ran. All bluff based on accurate info from key logger and a background search. (PS they thought I had hired a PI and had pixs)


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

JohnA said:


> His text to her mother is beyond creepy. You need to drive this couple out your life.


:iagree:

Robert is a predator. Of whom or what (wife? kids? breaking up relationships? living vicariously through others?) is still unclear. Either way, he is a parasite sucking off of your marriage.

Drive this vermin out of your life. Period. End.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

miketownsend11 said:


> ...I was actually talking to my mother in law this morning. She said "Ah, Robert is so sweet. He sent me a text yesterday to thank me for sharing my daughter."
> 
> ...and I thought to myself...I never received a text that thanked me for sharing my wife?!?!


THIS is where you should absolutely become furious.

He's peeing in your territory and loving it.

Definitely get in touch with his daughter and employ the "divide and conquer" strategy (as he has done the same to you)

Dig up his dirty laundry and amass a good amount of it.

Then dig into his marriage and find out what his wife resents about him. Those are the things you should make jokes about during dinner, not your wife.

If your wife gets defensive, tell her you and Robert have a wonderful relationship and he doesn't mind it. 

Get on his wife's good side and make comments or moves that make Robert and your wife uncomfortable.

Play the game. It's good entertainment and also good for your bond with your wife. 

As hicks said, your wife will ultimately have to choose between her marriage and this old couple. You can't make that choice for her, but you can definitely establish your stance on the matter. Either directly or indirectly. Given the situation, I can understand why you'd be hesitant to do it directly.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

Mike:

This is a case of do what I say not what I did. I'm a typical nice guy, don't like confrontations. 

The old guy orbiting my wife I considered a good friend. And telling him he was acting like a creep and the friendship is over (however you want to phrase that) was going to be liking kicking the family dog. Also, I was raised to respect my elders, I had close relationships with grandparents and older uncles and aunts, there was a lot of respect in my family for older family members.

This guy was a widower, was very sympathetic and a friend to everyone. I'd be the only one in our nature society of 200 people who would have a problem with this guy everybody liked him, so what's wrong with me maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion? And if I do confront him, he then maybe whines to everyone in the nature society we belong to that I'm paranoid, picking on a 70 yr old widower, feel threatened by a 70 yr old what kind of wimp am I, etc.

So anyway, lots of built in excuses not to do anything, or not to talk to him. So I handled it by talking to my wife about it: this is a problem in our marriage we need to fix this, or we're in trouble. My wife heard the message, friendship was ended. As a result, we're still really active in our nature society the membership didn't choose sides or have a field day gossiping, this old guy passed away a yr later, so no ongoing drama.

It worked out but I think it was not the best way to do it. It was my job as husband to talk to him and sort him out. This could have been an ongoing trouble spot in our marriage until I talked to him, or my wife may have been reluctant to end our friendship. Setting the old guy straight could have made me and my wife outcasts in our nature society, so what, my marriage is more important. 

So it's some woulda coulda shoulda advice from me, it's easy for me to say, but my advice is try to sort this out directly with this guy.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

It is more then choosing between him and the old couple. It is about Robert creating a toxic environment in the marriage. It is about him creating resentments and feelings on "unmeant needs". It is about creating the habit of taking things underground. All of which creates in the mind os the spouse the willingness to entertain the idea and the reality of adultery. Bottom line: if not Robert the a another co-worker or the guy down the street.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Lets be clear, this 71 year old is man and he is courting your wife. He does not have your best interest in mind. If he did, he would have be-friended you and as a good friend and mentor he would have given you advice on how to be a better husband to your wife. What this guy is doing isn't creepy it is predatory. But, you knew this already otherwise you would not be here with this concern (and just listen to what everyone and I mean everyone here has said). 

Let him know if he wants to be part of the life of your family, it is you that he need to befriend and not your wife. I suspect, if done the correct way (not rude, but blunt and to the point) and if you had your wife backing you up (she should be on this issue, otherwise she too has issues), I suspect he would disappear to look for more prey elsewhere.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

SnowToArmPits said:


> Mike:
> 
> This is a case of do what I say not what I did. I'm a typical nice guy, don't like confrontations.
> 
> ...


I think you did the right thing by solving the issue with minimum fuss. You could have confronted him and been all macho but to what end? Use macho-ness when needed. Why use a sledge hammer to kill a fly? You achieved your goal.

I have a thread on this somewhere, my wife was being called every evening on her commute drive back by another male coworker. She herself mentioned his name a few times and I began to see a trend. I checked up cell phone records and saw 30 minute calls every evening on the way back. My wife never hid anything, she was open about it. I posted about here and many told me to confront him. But I felt I should talk to my wife first as I have more control there than with that guy. I did and she agreed and the calls stopped. I have been checking the records off and on and there are no calls. Going to him and fighting would not have yielded this result and would have make her situation at work uncomfortable.

I think the OP should talk to his wife like you and I did.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

How did this creep get your MIL's phone number to text her? That is crossing the line plain as day. First your wife and now he's sucking up to your MIL. Tell your wife that's it. He has inserted himself into your family too far and the friendship is over. Your wife is not to ask him to do projects for your family (WTH). He and his wife need to find friends their own age. Put your foot down before you have to pull it out.

Tell your wife no more bringing home strays from her job.


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## person123 (Jan 12, 2016)

"Why wait? Make your wife's birthday special with just the two of you"

THIS.

Cancel any other plans you have, and take your wife on a date.

I think the point about protecting your children is a good one. I would use that as the excuse to cut Robert off, rather than coming off as paranoid and insecure by saying you think this guy is going to have an affair with your wife.

Alternatively, just tell your wife you've had a falling out with Robert and that you want to stop spending time with them is OK too. Maybe you can have a falling out with him when you tell him he's not coming to celebrate your wife's birthday.


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## person123 (Jan 12, 2016)

Here's an idea, why not invite his ex-wife and daughter over for dinner next time Robert comes?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

synthetic said:


> THIS is where you should absolutely become furious.
> 
> He's peeing in your territory and loving it.
> 
> ...


This. Is. Gold.

Do this. Exactly like synth has spelled out. Or else rue the day.

OP... Are you even still involved in this thread?! I've noticed you haven't been back in awhile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

person123 said:


> Here's an idea, why not invite his ex-wife and daughter over for dinner next time Robert comes?


You have a wonderful mind and my admiration!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> How did this creep get your MIL's phone number to text her? That is crossing the line plain as day. First your wife and now he's sucking up to your MIL. Tell your wife that's it. He has inserted himself into your family too far and the friendship is over. Your wife is not to ask him to do projects for your family (WTH). He and his wife need to find friends their own age. Put your foot down before you have to pull it out.
> 
> Tell your wife no more bringing home strays from her job.


Say it Sister!!

Couldn't agree more!!

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

First off, thank you so much for all of your input. I never would have imagined that I would receive this much feedback. This is an amazing site!

To respond to a couple questions:

-Yes, Robert's wife is fully aware of his actions. She seems to kiss his butt when she is around him. She seems very frail and open to any type of behavior he wishes. In her previous marriage, she was apparently the victim of a lot of mental abuse for 15+ years...not sure if that has anything to do with how she is now.

-Robert is aware of my mother in law's phone number because she is over at the house often..and so is he..so they have met in person on several occasions and get along very well (he is always sweet as can be around her, presumably because he knows that my wife has a very strong attachment to her).

-Yes, I do buy flowers for my wife, but not consistently

-No, Robert does not have any grandkids. He has one daughter, who virtually dis-owned him.

-Robert is retired Navy (20+ yrs) and retired sheriff's office crime scene analyst


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

He is very probably a serial cheater and worse.

Check him out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

So I did some research and was able to find out Robert's daughter's name...and I found her on Facebook... I am so tempted to message her and see if I can dig up any dirt on him. I feel like I need more "evidence" to convince my wife that unfriending him might be the best thing for us. Do you guys think that contacting his daughter is going overboard? Or justified?

...I must mention another reason why they have attached themselves to our family.

Our second son was born 3 months premature and had to stay at the hospital for a little over 3 months. He went through several emergency procedures and operations, and provided us many scares, but thankfully, he is very healthy today. During that time, my wife basically lived at the hospital (she had a room at a neighboring Ronald McDonald House)...as for me, I went back and forth between home and work. I still had to pay the bills and tend to our older son, so I could only spend so much time at the hospital, which is where Robert and Diane came into play. My wife wanted our son to have company at least 12 hours a day...and on days where she nor I could do that, she invited Robert and Diane over to the hospital to hold him and be near him. Diane would visit our son twice a week..usually, Robert accompanied her once a week. This went on for several weeks until we were able to take our son home. THAT is when the storm of texts became excessive. Prior to my son's birth, the texts were minimal. But post-birth, they started coming more and more. As you can imagine, they were normally texts about how our son was doing in the beginning...and I assumed that once our son was home and was finally 100% healthy, that the barrage of texts would slow down...but they didn't...in fact, they increased. 

This event, more than anything, has likely created that feeling of attachment to our family. My wife is eternally grateful for the time they spent at the hospital with our son (I am thankful, too, but don't think it excuses creepy behavior)

....so, yes, that's another reason why this situation is tricky for me.


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

Just because the majority of the responders think this relationship is wrong doesn't make it so.

You're giving information at your pace and it's one sided at best.

Your wife invited them into your lives and it seems they were there for her to the tune of twelve hours a day at a time she need their help the most. How can you now accuse them of creepy behavior? He makes wooden toys for your children. Gets along with your mother-in-law. They have no grandchildren of their own and I think that's where the attraction is, especially with the one they attended to in the hospital.

In my opinion you're the problem. Think twice before you come off as a douche. Figure out what is truly best for your family and use their obvious care for them to an advantage.

Just sayin',

Seasalt


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Just have a chat with your wife about how you noticed that Robert is crushing hard on her, and you want to decide, as a couple, how to deal with it. Find out what she thinks.

She's going to disbelieve you, because she won't have noticed anything but a nice, generous, guy. As you said, she treats him like the father she wishes she had.

What you need to do is point out that he does not view her like a daughter.

His hugs are too touchy feely.

He doesn't treat you like a son-in-law. When she's not around, you are rejected.

He doesn't treat your children like his grandchildren. When she's not around, they are mostly rejected. He's really just using them as excuses to come around her, and the toys he makes for them are to impress her, not them.

He texts excessively and frivolously.

He's not kind. He's "nice." He wants something in return.

So treat your wife with respect, tell her what you've noticed, and suggest brainstorming ways to let him down easy.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

miketownsend11 said:


> -No, Robert does not have any grandkids. He has one daughter, who virtually dis-owned him.
> 
> -Robert is retired Navy (20+ yrs) and retired sheriff's office crime scene analyst


Then he has learned about psych ops. He's employing it on your family.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Robert is a predator. Of whom or what (wife? kids? breaking up relationships? living vicariously through others?) is still unclear. Either way, he is a parasite sucking off of your marriage.
> 
> Drive this vermin out of your life. Period. End.


Come on, happy, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think!>


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

miketownsend11 said:


> ...I must mention another reason why they have attached themselves to our family.
> 
> Our second son was born 3 months premature and had to stay at the hospital for a little over 3 months. He went through several emergency procedures and operations, and provided us many scares, but thankfully, he is very healthy today. During that time, my wife basically lived at the hospital (she had a room at a neighboring Ronald McDonald House)...as for me, I went back and forth between home and work. I still had to pay the bills and tend to our older son, so I could only spend so much time at the hospital, which is where Robert and Diane came into play. My wife wanted our son to have company at least 12 hours a day...and on days where she nor I could do that, she invited Robert and Diane over to the hospital to hold him and be near him. Diane would visit our son twice a week..usually, Robert accompanied her once a week. This went on for several weeks until we were able to take our son home. THAT is when the storm of texts became excessive. Prior to my son's birth, the texts were minimal. But post-birth, they started coming more and more. As you can imagine, they were normally texts about how our son was doing in the beginning...and I assumed that once our son was home and was finally 100% healthy, that the barrage of texts would slow down...but they didn't...in fact, they increased.
> 
> ...


Based on this part of the story, I was going to advise you to treat him like family and have a heart-to-heart with him telling him how you feel in order to give him a second chance.

But I advise against that and here's why:

He already gives you the creeps, he has been excluding you, forming an alliance with the women and children, which is incredibly inappropriate in many ways. He will try to explain his actions and apologize to stay in their lives if he is a manipulator or a pedophile, and you will then tell yourself that you were imagining things and let him stay in your lives until more damage is done.

He is not family. He doesn't get any more chances. He already blew all his chances.

My backstory in this area: we were friends with a couple and they had a daughter. We thought we knew them well...for a few years! He was a leader at our church. My husband moved away from home for work, so the man stepped up to spend "man time" with our son, biking with him, hiking, camping, etc. He gave our son birthday gifts that we wouldn't have given him: a crappy old computer that had some stupid games on it. A few books to read that were not the type we were encouraging him to read. Not "bad" books, just books that we didn't want him to read (yet). We homeschool and were providing our son with quality juvenile literature (G.A. Henty, RM Ballentyne, Robert Lewis Stevenson, Sir Walter Scott, etc. along with other excellent books), while the man was giving him the latest modern juvenile novels, written at elementary grade level reading.

He was telling our son that we were too strict and old fashioned, and he was drawing our son to him, and away from us. We talked with the guy, and laid out some boundaries. No gifts without our prior permission, do not violate our values or introduce new things to our son that we haven't introduced. (Rap music, for example.) He claimed to have Asperger's and apologized profusely. We even told him that his behaviors were mirroring some things pedophiles do so he should learn better boundaries, since we believed he had Asperger's. 

Within 6 months, we found out that he was a pedophile and liked little boys and had shown our son X rated movies, his personal masturbation toy, had cracked our son's back on his bed and had taken him camping....to a nudist camp!!! I wish that man is smashed by a bus on his way to work, and that the bus backs up and runs over him again.

Don't make the mistake not trusting your gut like we did.

Get the old goat out of your family's lives.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Quick technical correction: Robert and Diane were not spending 12 hours a day at the hospital...they were there for about 2 to 3 hours, once or twice a week...the remainder of the time was accounted for by my wife (mostly) and me and my mother in law. Sorry for any confusion.

Some of you asked about my father in law. He lives 2.5 hours away. We see him once every two months...and my wife calls him every Sunday morning via Facetime for about an hour. She has a pretty healthy relationship with her father. He annoys her at times with occasional preaching, but for the most part, their conversations are always pleasant with each other....so I wouldn't say she was replacing a Dad that she never had.

Robert has no grandkids. Diane has 2 grandkids through previous marriage.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Based on this part of the story, I was going to advise you to treat him like family and have a heart-to-heart with him telling him how you feel in order to give him a second chance.
> 
> But I advise against that and here's why:


IMFarAboveRubies, I hope it helps to say I'm so sorry that happened to your family.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

It would be a good idea to talk to your father in law and employ his help in this.

He's going to be on your side no matter how nice and kind Robert is, because he has a vested interest in remaining "the man" of his family (which includes your wife and your mother in law).

Chances are, he has more wisdom and braveness in dealing with a 71 year old than you.

Just convey the message that he's practically being replaced by Robert in the eyes of his grand kids (your children), your wife and your mother-in-law even if they won't admit it.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Maybe I'm overly cynical but I would be less worried about his intentions towards your wife, and more about his intentions towards your kids. It could be he identified her as their primary protector and has gained her trust in an attempt to get closer to them. At best, it's disrespectful of him towards you to act this way to you in front of your wife and kids and doesn't send a very good message to your children. Talk to your wife. Most women value their kids' safety above any other considerations.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

They were there for you and your wife at a tough time, so in exchange they get to occupy your marriage forever?

There is no way out of this that does not ruffle feathers. You just need to decide what a marriage is to you and as the husband ensure that is what your marriage is.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

IMFarAboveRubies,

Not to thread jack too much, but is your son OK, that's really scary. Is the guy in jail?

Tamat


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

I have only this to add . Never trust your young children to another man or teenager even if they are relatives . I was molested by my own brother . That is a hard lesson to learn . 

That man had helped when you needed him . Yes . Thank him . And that's it . He cant infiltrate your family . It will confuse your children .


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

TAMAT said:


> IMFarAboveRubies,
> 
> Not to thread jack too much, but is your son OK, that's really scary. Is the guy in jail?
> 
> Tamat



Yup . Your son alright ?
What does it mean " break your son's back " ?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

MikeTownsend,

How did you know this couple before they got involved with your son?

The military and police background gives me pause, those are two male dominated job environments where seducing women is part of the fraternity. I think this is changing, but OM would have been around during the thick of it in the 1970s and 1980s.

The medical connection is an similarity as well, my W met the OM at a weekly medical procedure she had to take someone to.

Tamat


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

SnowToArmPits said:


> IMFarAboveRubies, I hope it helps to say I'm so sorry that happened to your family.


Thanks. What makes me sick is that he made sure to not "technically" break the law, so the DA's (in 3 counties...where he did all the activities) decided to not prosecute him. So he's still out there, looking for unsuspecting mothers who need "help" with their juvenile sons. I don't want him to molest a boy, in order to be caught and go to jail, only because of the damage to the boy, so I just hope he will be hit by a bus, since he rides his bike to work. 

He even taught our son how to install an operating system on our computer so he could get around our parental control program. He helped him open up his own secret email so that he could email people without our knowledge. Our son is 20 now and he realizes that the man wasn't his friend, but a sicko who wanted to molest him. It didn't get that far, and my son was not physically sexually violated, although the images he saw in the movies (not just male-female sex, but rape, male-male, and other stuff) left images in his brain, I'm sure. Besides the fact that the man planted and watered seeds of rebellion in our son that caused a lot of pain for us and for our son for many years. Our son is still paying the price for his rebellion, but he's getting his life together and coming home every chance he can to spend time with his dad, sisters and I. He especially loves to spend time with his dad.

Sorry for the threadjack OP, but I know a lot about the topic of a male "friend" who causes division in the family. 

Always trust your gut and don't believe anyone's excuses for their weird behavior. Put your family above anyone's feeling.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

While it appears unlikely that a physical affair would ever take place, would there be any value in identifying this as an "emotional affair" in which your wife is involved?

Others here are better suited to identify the characteristics of an emotional affair. But if it's a relationship that erodes the time and commitment to the core marriage, this may be an avenue to explore.

I'm not very knowledgeable on this topic, but that's what came to mind first for me.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

tripad said:


> Yup . Your son alright ?
> What does it mean " break your son's back " ?


 "Cracked" our son's back. He was growing really fast and had lots of back pain. The man kept saying our son needed to go to the Dr. but I knew our son was just having growing pains. The man even had me wondering if I was a neglectful mother for not taking him to the Dr. A year later I saw stretch marks on my son's spine where it had grown so fast. His back is fine now and he is 6'3". The man was just using my son's growing pains as an excuse so my son would allow him to violate his boundaries (touch him, be over him on the bed from behind, etc.) I only learned all the back cracking _*after*_ the fact when I learned about everything else. One of the detectives I talked to after I found out about everything said that all the things he did were typical for a pedophile, and he was an opportunistic but stupid predator. He had underestimated the closeness of our family and thought he would never tell his sisters. He told his sister, his sister told us. BAM! The man was publicly outed by us, and paid a big price for what he did, unfortunately he did not go to jail.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Why did Roberts frist marriage end? Why did your wife's furry marriage end?


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

tripad said:


> I have only this to add . Never trust your young children to another man or teenager even if they are relatives . I was molested by my own brother . That is a hard lesson to learn .
> 
> That man had helped when you needed him . Yes . Thank him . And that's it . He cant infiltrate your family . It will confuse your children .


Your own brother? Wow!


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

I have no idea why Robert's marriage ended. I have never heard him talk about his ex-wife or daughter. To say I'm curious is an understatement.

My wife and I have no previous marriages.

Diane, Robert's wife, suffered from mental abuse in her previous marriage.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Through further investigation, I learned that Robert's daughter is employed at a popular theme park. I think I will bring up the idea of going to that theme park next time Robert is at the house....."Hey, Robert, care to join us??"


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Ok, time to take a break from focusing on Robert...I will now focus on my wife for the next 24 hours!
We have the whole day alone together on Saturday, as I treat the Birthday girl to a day of fun-filled activities..including a professional massage, brewery tour, fancy dinner, and a play...and then all the sex we can handle until we pass out.


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## miketownsend11 (Apr 27, 2015)

Yea...I certainly will play it safe regarding my kids...but from what I can see, he doesn't show a lot of interest or envy in children, overall. He has more interest in the older people...they are the ones that can listen to his never-ending Navy stories and look at all of the woodwork pictures that he shows off..and tell him how amazing he is.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

After her birthday put your foot down and let Robert find a new hobby. Tell him to get a damn dog or something.

Perfect timing.

I'd make sure he knew it was me that ended it as well.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

miketownsend11 said:


> So here is the deal. I am 39, my wife is 37. We have two sons, age 1 and 3. My wife met this older couple, Robert (71) and Diane (68), at her job two years ago. They are both retired volunteers at my wife's job. My wife befriended them and became closer and closer friends with them as time went along. So close, that they are now coming over to our house constantly, and being part of every single family event. They baby-sit when we need help, and Robert often builds wooden toys for our sons. Sounds sweet, right?..well..they are, but there is something I just don't like about Robert. Here is a rundown:
> 
> -When we are alone in a room, he barely ever makes conversation with me ... often, he will just play with this phone, looking up random things on Google. But, when my wife comes into the room, he instantly lights up and becomes chatty (with her, not me).
> 
> ...


Does your wife have a good relationship with her father?


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

miketownsend11 said:


> Quick technical correction: Robert and Diane were not spending 12 hours a day at the hospital...they were there for about 2 to 3 hours, once or twice a week...the remainder of the time was accounted for by my wife (mostly) and me and my mother in law. Sorry for any confusion.
> 
> Some of you asked about my father in law. He lives 2.5 hours away. We see him once every two months...and my wife calls him every Sunday morning via Facetime for about an hour. She has a pretty healthy relationship with her father. He annoys her at times with occasional preaching, but for the most part, their conversations are always pleasant with each other....so I wouldn't say she was replacing a Dad that she never had.
> 
> Robert has no grandkids. Diane has 2 grandkids through previous marriage.


Missed this! Are her parents divorced?


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