# Let this be a lesson



## PlantMan (Mar 28, 2013)

A week ago, I came on here concerning my wife's EA and a vacation to the other man's city. Due to the amount of feedback I received indicating that everyone felt she for sure had physical contact, we agreed to rush through a Polygraph test at a major expense. 

The results came in today and I am happy to report that she was indeed telling the truth. There was no physical contact with anyone on her trip. While the test did not indicate this part, she did tell me that the conversations beyond a normal friendship ended months ago and remained that way.

While I am still devastated by the lies and disrespect, I can now move forward with our relationship. We actually just had our first Counselor appointment yesterday and it started off great. Now we are just on the path of rebuilding trust, which will not be an easy thing to do, but at least we are both ready and willing to put in the work. 

I want to give a big thanks to those who provided me with wisdom to get me in the right direction. But, for those who wanted to lambast me and accuse me of being walked all over, shame on you.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Congratulations PlantMan!

You can begin your road to Recovery on firmer ground, which is better than most people. For many, there is that lingering doubt. 

Now the hard part begins, that she maintains NC, transparent, and does not try to sweep this under the rug and tell you to get over it already. The true test of Reconciliation is that she continues the heavy lifting until you have recovered, however long that takes.

I sincerely hope that you will be one of the success stories here.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

"Polygraphy has little evidence to support its use.[11][12][13] Despite claims of 90% validity by polygraph advocates,[14] the National Research Council has found no evidence of effectiveness.[12] The utility among sex offenders is also poor[15] with insufficient evidence to support accuracy or improved outcomes in this population"


```
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph#Validity
```


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

tulsy said:


> "Polygraphy has little evidence to support its use.[11][12][13] Despite claims of 90% validity by polygraph advocates,[14] the National Research Council has found no evidence of effectiveness.[12] The utility among sex offenders is also poor[15] with insufficient evidence to support accuracy or improved outcomes in this population"
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Don't *derail* his thread about the validity of polygraphs especially if you haven't taken one yourself. His thread is about recovery and the polygraph is helping him get there.


----------



## PlantMan (Mar 28, 2013)

I had a very tough night on Sunday and broke down. This was the first time since the discovery that I allowed my emotions to swell beyond comprehension. At my request, my wife left me alone for the night so I could do some serious soul searching and to really think about what my future could be both inside and outside of this marriage. 

I woke up so clear headed and determined to reclaim the love of my life. When my wife came clean a month ago, she told me that it took her to see the reality of losing everything to finally realize what she had. On Sunday night, I went through this exact feeling and now I am ready to fight for what is mine.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm glad that you are now on a path to reconciling your marriage. That is a good outcome & one that you wanted.

I want to say, though, that the lesson you are teaching here for me is that there are always outliers to what is otherwise a pretty predictable pattern. That is the human condition. Human behavior is very similar in similar situations. Just a fact of biology. There are always exceptions to the norms, but even those exceptions fall within recognizable categories.

I remember your story & I think it's fair to say that your outcome is exceptional. People shouldn't have berated you, if that's what happened, but saying that her story was improbable was, by the numbers, quite true.


----------



## PlantMan (Mar 28, 2013)

tulsy said:


> "Polygraphy has little evidence to support its use.[11][12][13] Despite claims of 90% validity by polygraph advocates,[14] the National Research Council has found no evidence of effectiveness.[12] The utility among sex offenders is also poor[15] with insufficient evidence to support accuracy or improved outcomes in this population"
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


I am no longer looking into negatives. We have both made mistakes in our lives and now it is time to reclaim our love and move on. 

I will not be one to drown in a sea of "What if's." I spent the last month coming back up for air and all it did was make it more painful.


----------



## PlantMan (Mar 28, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I'm glad that you are now on a path to reconciling your marriage. That is a good outcome & one that you wanted.
> 
> I want to say, though, that the lesson you are teaching here for me is that there are always outliers to what is otherwise a pretty predictable pattern. That is the human condition. Human behavior is very similar in similar situations. Just a fact of biology. There are always exceptions to the norms, but even those exceptions fall within recognizable categories.
> 
> I remember your story & I think it's fair to say that your outcome is exceptional. People shouldn't have berated you, if that's what happened, but saying that her story was improbable was, by the numbers, quite true.


I am just saying that not every relationship is black and white. I was accused of ignoring the obvious when her story made complete sense. While this is still very disheartening she claimed from the beginning that she had no idea that she was even truly into an EA until it was on pen and paper for her to see. Her sexting portion left has fast as it came and she was more embarrassed for herself even allowing it to ever get to that point. It pains me quite a bit that she did not see the devastation this could pose on our marriage. But what is done, is done.


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

It was expensive but worth the cost to know that she didn't lie. As you said, what's done is done. Look to the future. alte Dame said it all. She was the outlier - very unusual. 

Trust the results. Set boundaries for each of you. Good luck.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The lesson leared is have her take that poly, to erase most of your doubts so you can move on.


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Plantman, I am so glad that you can now move forward. While many on TAM (probably including me) stated our opinions that there was a physical aspect and urged you to look for more I am happy to say that I (we) were wrong. Thankfully you chose to use a polygraph to put those fears to rest and I hope you both can move forward to a true reconciliation and a long happy marriage.


----------



## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Plantman,

I'm glad you got the results you did and I hope things move forward positively.


If I remember correctly you gave your wife the green light to go to a foreign country by herself even after you knew of inappropriate communications between her and the OM who lived in said country....

If you haven't done so yet you really need to get "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Glover and MMSL by Athol Kay. Athol Kay also has a blog/forum that would be very helpful for you to read.

Good Luck.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

tulsy said:


> "Polygraphy has little evidence to support its use.[11][12][13] Despite claims of 90% validity by polygraph advocates,[14] the National Research Council has found no evidence of effectiveness.[12] The utility among sex offenders is also poor[15] with insufficient evidence to support accuracy or improved outcomes in this population"
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


*Not always best to cite wikpedia either since anyone with a keyboard can contribute without having any expertise or background*



lordmayhem said:


> Don't *derail* his thread about the validity of polygraphs especially if you haven't taken one yourself. His thread is about recovery and the polygraph is helping him get there.


*:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:*


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I suggest you do His Needs Her Needs together. Do the boundary setting. You both need major work on boundaries. She should not have gone on the trip and you should not have been ok with her going. Boundary failure for both of you.

You should not be ok with her interactions with other men that led to her affair. She should have boundaries that prevent this from happening again.

Learn from this.

Boundaries aside HNHN is about meeting each others needs. It does not prevent infidelity but it can lower the risks.


----------



## PlantMan (Mar 28, 2013)

Letting her go on that trip was a huge mistake. I mean like Earth shattering mistake. 

Boundaries have already been established and while it is still early in reconciliation, things have already changed. It seems her events have even made an impact on certain co-workers as none of them plan on going out after work again. I think it made them all realize how quickly things can escalate and get out of control.

Both our business and her side job contain quite a bit of solo social interacting and networking, it will be a tough pill to swallow for the coming months. My views on infidelity has always been that the majority of cases come on by complete accident. You simply have to avoid scenarios that put you into the dangerous position of making the ultimate mistake. I think she now heeds my past advise on this. 

We have all been there. Married or not, we have all been attracted to another person and may have developed a crush a time or two. For me the difference between a crush and an affair are simply allowing yourself to be alone with that person whether it be physical or emotional. Once you have crossed that boundary, you have put yourself in a dangerous scenario whether you meant to or not. I myself have had a crush on a past co-worker but I got over it by not allowing myself to even have the options to allow the chemical/biological side take over. I think she is finally realizing how quickly things can get out of hand and she now respects my thoughts on this.


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

PlantMan said:


> A week ago, I came on here concerning my wife's EA and a vacation to the other man's city. Due to the amount of feedback I received indicating that everyone felt she for sure had physical contact, we agreed to rush through a Polygraph test at a major expense.
> 
> The results came in today and I am happy to report that she was indeed telling the truth. There was no physical contact with anyone on her trip. While the test did not indicate this part, she did tell me that the conversations beyond a normal friendship ended months ago and remained that way.
> 
> ...


It's called tough love. No one who comes here gets "lambasted" out of spite, there are many different kinds of support here, ranging from the lightly/softly team to the 2x4 team..all with your best interests at heart..to find the truth. You've got it now. Congratulations


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Forgive me if I am wrong, but was the original thread....

....his wife and her friends had met 3 men from another country on a GNO, she offered OM her phone number and began an EA with sexting with one of them. She then proceeded to plan a trip to the guys home country, ended up going alone, and then lied about spending time with the guy in his home country?

OP, regardless, I sincerely hope you do find happiness.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

PlantMan -

I just want to say one last thing -

Nobody thinks this is black and white. I know you don't think so, certainly, when it is your own relationship with all its ups and downs and gradations of gray.

What you get here is a group of people volunteering their time to help other people on a subject that they know, often painfully, a lot about. The collective wisdom often sounds alarmist and extreme to the newbie, but 99.99% of the time, it is not. Sadly, 99.99% of the time it is on the money.

And that is the point. Human behavior is in the main predictable. There is always a norm. We are all glad that your W got her act together soon enough to stop herself from adding herself to that norm when it comes to cheating.

It is also good that you listened to the voices here. You have some closure now and she has her wake-up call. You will still have to deal with what she did, almost all of which was out of bounds for a marriage. I am like the others who are happy for you that you got some reassuring news.

Best of luck to you!


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

PlantMan said:


> Letting her go on that trip was a huge mistake. I mean like Earth shattering mistake.
> 
> Boundaries have already been established and while it is still early in reconciliation, things have already changed.  It seems her events have even made an impact on certain co-workers as none of them plan on going out after work again. I think it made them all realize how quickly things can escalate and get out of control.
> 
> ...


You need to avoid risky situations but affairs are not accidents. They come from bad choices. Indeed affairs do happen even if they are not the intent.

I question the solo socializing. What exactly does that entail? She is alone with men? Where and in what context?


----------



## PlantMan (Mar 28, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> You need to avoid risky situations but affairs are not accidents. Theyu come from bad choices. Indeed affairs do happen even if they are not the intent.
> 
> I question the solo socializing. What exactly does that entail? She is alone with men? Where and in what context?


We are both salespeople for our own business. It is what it is. It is more so on my end. But we do meet clients at bars and restaurants. Her side job is very social but in a controlled environment. She is a server at a very upscale restaurant inside an MLB Stadium. She deals with rich people, quite of few who travel. This is why I have never liked her going out after work. I have been out with her many times and it usually just a bunch of middle aged women *****ing about their job all night. But that was obviously not the case on a particular night. 

Luckily with the way their schedule is structured I know when she is off and what train she is taking home. I can also turn on a TV and physically see my wife working. Kinda crazy.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

tulsy said:


> "Polygraphy has little evidence to support its use.[11][12][13] Despite claims of 90% validity by polygraph advocates,[14] the National Research Council has found no evidence of effectiveness.[12] The utility among sex offenders is also poor[15] with insufficient evidence to support accuracy or improved outcomes in this population"
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


And that's why the FBI and CIA don't use them on their agents and officers.....oh, wait...


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> And that's why the FBI and CIA don't use them on their agents and officers.....oh, wait...


... and lawyers and high profile company executives, many places where trust is a must.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

tulsy said:


> "Polygraphy has little evidence to support its use.[11][12][13] Despite claims of 90% validity by polygraph advocates,[14] the National Research Council has found no evidence of effectiveness.[12] The utility among sex offenders is also poor[15] with insufficient evidence to support accuracy or improved outcomes in this population"
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Don't you get an F if you use wikipedia as a source in college. Police forces and the FBI use them on their own agents, no?


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Be vigilant plantman.

An EA is worse than a drunken one night stand.

While I'm happy it wasn't physical, she still cheated on you.

You better demand complete transparency and lie detectors are 
easy to beat if you research how. 

Good Luck


----------



## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> You need to avoid risky situations but affairs are not accidents. They come from bad choices.


:iagree::iagree:
I hate when people say I made a "mistake", it was a "mistake".. A mistake is getting or doing something wrong by accident. An affair IS A CHOICE. Say it how it really is "I made a bad decision or choice". I believe it's a question of character as well. You say you've been in situations and you distanced yourself. She was in a situation and let it go to the next level. I hope everything works out for you, if you love her it's worth a try. You need to follow your heart, just use your head too! Good luck!


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

PlantMan said:


> I had a very tough night on Sunday and broke down. This was the first time since the discovery that I allowed my emotions to swell beyond comprehension. At my request, my wife left me alone for the night so I could do some serious soul searching and to really think about what my future could be both inside and outside of this marriage.
> 
> I woke up so clear headed and determined to reclaim the love of my life. When my wife came clean a month ago, she told me that it took her to see the reality of losing everything to finally realize what she had. On Sunday night, I went through this exact feeling and now I am ready to fight for what is mine.


So it's been determined there was a better chance than not there was no sex. But the fact she wanted him is concerning.

I hope you kids work things out, I really do.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok sales is your jobs. There needs to be a strict and clear separation of job and social life.

There is taking about work and your product, and there is tslking about emotions, relationships, and would you like to get a drink and have sex.


----------



## frank29 (Aug 22, 2012)

So pleased for you both don't look back just be very glad that you can move forward and enjoy your relationship all the very best for the future


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

PlantMan said:


> My views on infidelity has always been that the majority of cases come on by complete accident. You simply have to avoid scenarios that put you into the dangerous position of making the ultimate mistake.
> 
> For me the difference between a crush and an affair are simply allowing yourself to be alone with that person whether it be physical or emotional. Once you have crossed that boundary, you have put yourself in a dangerous scenario whether you meant to or not.


:iagree:
This is exactly the scenario that led to my (now, not then) wife's affair with her boss. They worked closely together on a project, he wasn't one of the office a**holes, but he WAS (and still is, I'm sure) a PREDATOR in sheep's clothing. And she was in a vulnerable time in her life; he saw it, swooped in and took full advantage of it.

We will never allow ourselves to be put in that kind of situation ever, whether work or social functions. Not because we aren't strong, but because we are smarter. Why put yourself in a situation at all, if it's at all avoidable?


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Glad to hear your story has a good ending


----------



## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> he WAS (and still is, I'm sure) a PREDATOR in sheep's clothing. And she was in a vulnerable time in her life; he saw it, swooped in and took full advantage of it.
> 
> We will never allow ourselves to be put in that kind of situation ever, whether work or social functions. Not because we aren't strong, but because we are smarter. Why put yourself in a situation at all, if it's at all avoidable?


Be careful how you choose to rationalize your wifes choice to be with another man. I'm only saying this because I too did the blameshifting (that's what it's called), my so called best friend was a snake and I'm sure he could manipulate with the best of them? Because of this I told myself that I pushed her away and he manipulated her and he took advantage of her. I basically made her a victim. Years later a situation happened that caused me to get into therapy and thus reliving the "nightmare". 

The fact is, he may be a "PREDATOR in sheeps clothing", but she still made the choice to have an affair with him. She didn't make a mistake, she may have made a bad decision, or a poor choice...but unless there was force involved, no one twisted her arm. Accept those facts so you don't have regrets years later. Yes there are people who can justify or rationalize an affair and move on.. I thought I could but it finally got to me.
Good luck!


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

S4E said:


> Be careful how you choose to rationalize your wifes choice to be with another man. I'm only saying this because I too did the blameshifting (that's what it's called), my so called best friend was a snake and I'm sure he could manipulate with the best of them? Because of this I told myself that I pushed her away and he manipulated her and he took advantage of her. I basically made her a victim. Years later a situation happened that caused me to get into therapy and thus reliving the "nightmare".
> 
> The fact is, he may be a "PREDATOR in sheeps clothing", but she still made the choice to have an affair with him. She didn't make a mistake, she may have made a bad decision, or a poor choice...but unless there was force involved, no one twisted her arm. Accept those facts so you don't have regrets years later. Yes there are people who can justify or rationalize an affair and move on.. I thought I could but it finally got to me.
> Good luck!


Thanks for the point and it's a good one. I'm just pointing out, from the 30,000 foot view, how HE acted towards her. She screwed up, she admits it, is ashamed and embarrassed etc etc. But the point being, just don't put yourself in those situations if it's at all possible to avoid it. 

OP, she works with rich folks who fly in from elsewhere... I'd watch her on TV too if I were you. Trust but verify...


----------

