# Did i make a mistake agreeing to leave her?



## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

Why do i feel i made a mistake/guilty of agreeing to a break up with her a month later, but when it happened, it felt like the right thing to do?

I posted my breakup in the men's and women forum a month ago. I was in a 3 year relationship that was really good probably 80% of the time. But the other 20% was significant in my eyes. We were wrestling with her wanting me to take that final step (move my kids in with her and marry) and me hesitating. I couldn't put my finger on why. It was a gut feeling, but i would doubt those sensations because we did get along and have good times too.... until I figured out why and told her( and a day later she initiated a break up). 

I was feeling her insecurities of control (time spent with my kids, family, and friend) needed to be addressed in counseling (which we had started doing but to fix me and my hesitation, not her). She admitted early in our relationship that she was abandonded via divorce when she was a child and again in her previous marriage(which she jumped to dating me before the divorce papers were signed. And now jumped into the dating pool less than 2 weeks after we broke up.
Her frustrations with me often never came from an understanding place. It was anger, frustration and told me i was making her feel this way, that o was selfish, etc. It eventually turned into her telling me what to do with some of my decisons i would make with kids and family if she felt it got in the way between us, or us and our date nights. I made the mistake to change for her believing she was right, and I ended up making myself unhappy.

She believed our/my issues were not a big enough deal for me to hold off my added commitment. She said i would never find the perfect relationship so i needed to be realistic. She said i was stringing her along and that she felt our relationship was "fake" because it wasnt moving forward to marriage as she liked. That hurt me because i didn't think anything we did was "fake". I loved her.

She initiated the break up saying i can finally have my independence and freedom. I am not proud to admit i was empty enotionally in that moment to "put up a fight" but i also felt a little relieved that the tension and fighting was no more. I feel confused on who broke up with who. I believe its her, she believes its me. In all likelihood, it was mutual.

Ive been spending the last month grieving and it sucks. I am at a point where i am questioning if i did the right thing in agreeing to the breakup. Was she right that something like this was fixable? I second guess my self asking what if i hung in there longer and address in counseling some of her insecurities, and not just mine. I disliked confrontation, but did my best to listen to her and find a resolution. My emotional fortitude is not my strong point. But i try! Yet, she was convinced i was a commitment phobe and would make excuses why i didn't want to marry her because she told me she was ready to say yes. I felt like something was wrong with me. I loved her so much, so why couldnt i overcome my concerns to make that happen? I wished she could understand and support me, but this frustrated her and eventually, gave up (i think this is why she really ended it, not so i can be free).

Its also confusing why she would suggest that the breakup was what i wanted, when she was the one who brought it up and suggested it in the first place. By me agreeing, it was suddenly me who was the dumper, and that she wasn't going to come chasing me or asking me back. I am the bad guy in her and her friend's eyes.

On a side note, she has done this "breakup suggestion" if it was what i wanted a few times before and when i turned it around on her and said i did not want a seperation, but wasnt going to stop her if it was what she wanted, she admitted that she only said it because she thought it was what i wanted. A year ago, the same thing happened when i told her i wasnt ready to move in but wanted the relationship so i could figure out why i was feeling that way. She initiated the breakup 2 weeks later and i came crawlinh back. I could tell she resented me for doing that to her. Also, her insecurities which also involved a weak trust issue with me came roaring back over the last year. It definitely effected our relationship. But in her eyes and she told me, if i proposed, all those particular issues would go away. I didn't agree and said i wanted to work on those things first. I didnt want a second divorce!

I have do miss a lot about the things we did including when our children were together. The relationahip had a lot of great things about it. We had a lot of the same interests, likes, she was very in love with me, affectionate, very sexual. She met a lot of my needs. Actually, i felt she was better at it than I was. And no, i was never abusive physically or emotionally towards her. But i think she always questioned my love for her for a very long time. I believe her past sabotaged so many good things by her sabotaging and believing the worst in things sometimes.

I was scared that her insecurities would last into the marriage and continue to create drama and conflict, particularly when it involved my kids and family. I felt that was unhealthy. But now i question everything.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

All relationships are difficult and are not perfect. You could find a reason to break up with anyone. I always stick with old asking yourself "Is the fcking I'm getting worth the fcking I'm taking?"

It sounds like you're lonely and wanting her companionship. You want your kids to have the companionship of her kids. 

Maybe you should start dating. If you find a woman that is better in every way, you'll know you made the right decision. Give it 12 months. Who knows what will happen, maybe you'll both reuinte or you'll realize the breakup was for the best.

I'm struggling with my relationship too and taking it day by day to see if it's going to last. It weighs heavily on my mind and I hate it. You are lucky that you're single and have a lot of time to yourself. I envy you. Keep glass half full outlook on life. Your situation is good and a lot of people would love to be in your shoes.


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## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

I'm no where close to dating. No rebound relationships for me. Its the tougher path for me, especially knowing she is dating and having sex(I am truly struggling with this), while I "work on where i went wrong and improving myself. I worry what if she had legit reasons with me. What of i was a screwup anf lost a really good relationship. I am 45 and not getting any younger. I really do want to.settle down.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I've read your threads. You dodged a bullet with her. She had significant issues, isn't emotionally healthy, and tries to blame it on YOU. You could get back in a relationship with her, but it seems to me that it will be toxic.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

She sounds like a controlling b!tch and you should be glad that your instincts were telling you that the relationship was wrong. We all go through grief and self doubt with a breakup. Marriage is something that should be entered into happily and easily, not because someone is twisting your arm. The relationship was not enhancing your life or you would not have had those niggling doubts.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, you did not make a mistake. 

Stay away from her. She's not what you need.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

If she is out having sex with new dudes two weeks after your breakup I doubt she was deeply in love with you.


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## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

Ive never been in a "controlling" relationship before and she wasnt controlling all the time. Nor did she meet all of the controlling criteria examples, just one in particular. So it's hard for me to nail down for sure if i was in an unhealthy relationship. Or if I'm overreacting? But it sounds like I was in one.

Also, I can't confirm she's getting laid, but its true she's out there on Tinder apparently. And sex is important to her, so thats why I figured she was. I believe that was one of her biggest struggles was feeling alone. When she was alone, she probably felt abandoned even though that was far from reality. But i think it was HER reality she was convinced of. Sometimes i think i failed and could have done better making her feel happy and not abandonded. But other times, i wonder if that would be futile. That its on her, not me regarding that belief and being happy.

Lastly, i think i became co-dependent with her which is why i am also struggling now. It was very obvious she was dependent on me, my dependability and placing her as the #1 priority over my kids. She depended on me for her happiness.

I entered the relationship happy with myself, loving myself and independent. I had not dated for months and was happy anyways. 
But slowly, as i spent more time with her, then my kids and all of us spent most of our time at her place, i unwittingly relied on her. 
I started missing my home sometimes, but she hated when i would go back to my house (which was 5 min away) especially on school nights. But I became comfortable in her home, her friends, and her taking care of me(she was a big pleaser). When we broke up, i lost all of that and who i had become which was dependent on the relationship, i think. I am struggling to get back the healthy and happy guy I was before the relationship.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I can't imagine having sex with anyone for a LOOOONG time if my sweetheart and I were to breakup. I am in love with him and I would have some serious healing to do before I could even entertain the idea of going on a date with someone else.

She hopped into bed with someone else within a couple of weeks of ditching you, and is probably already plotting to get THAT guy to commit to marriage in the near future.

She's not in love with you, certainly not the way you think she is. She has serious abandonment issues and you dodged a bullet.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok, I just went and re-read your very first post. You have some serious self esteem issues and your picker isn't very good.

I would suggest you get intensive counseling for yourself and remain single until you sort out your own issues.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*No! Her insecurities have greatly turned her into a virtual control freak! 

You'd do well to walk away from her controlling personality. From that perspective, she is no good for either you or your family!*


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Good riddens!

Why get married . Its overrated! 50/50 chance of sucess!

Poor odds.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

In reading through your other threads, its clear that she is incapable of being by herself, she HAS to have a man. She easily hops from one to another. She has serious self worth issues, and you should be glad she is gone., off to be someone else's headache now.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

LostinUS said:


> Ive never been in a "controlling" relationship before and she wasnt controlling all the time. Nor did she meet all of the controlling criteria examples, just one in particular. So it's hard for me to nail down for sure if i was in an unhealthy relationship. Or if I'm overreacting? But it sounds like I was in one.
> 
> Also, I can't confirm she's getting laid, but its true she's out there on Tinder apparently. And sex is important to her, so thats why I figured she was. I believe that was one of her biggest struggles was feeling alone. When she was alone, she probably felt abandoned even though that was far from reality. But i think it was HER reality she was convinced of. Sometimes i think i failed and could have done better making her feel happy and not abandonded. But other times, i wonder if that would be futile. That its on her, not me regarding that belief and being happy.
> 
> ...


She is on Tinder looking for hookups. Plain and simple. Dump her. Be grateful you dodged a bullet. No women who cares a shred about you would be on Tinder in a matter of weeks. Run and don't look back. Put your own profile on Tinder. When she learns of your Tinder profile and blows up your phone remind her what is good for the goose is good for the gander. 

You don't have to actually contact anyone Tinder if you aren't ready. Its just to let her know you can move on quickly too and she can drop the pretense she ever actually loved you.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Oh dang, I remember your threads. You are and it feels worse because you have self esteem issues. You need to do things on your own and with your kids. There are all types of family outing groups, sports events and heck, Judo is cheap and widely available take up a martial art with the kids. Get out of your own head space and enjoy ending it with this woman because even if she is really only 10% as bad you claim, the bad is enough to run away from.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

I hate to say this, but usually the first guy dated after a bad breakup is called, "the rebound guy"..and I think that's what you were. Since she's already on social media looking for someone else, it doesn't sound like this woman wants to be alone so the next guy will get the anger left after her divorce also.

Stay far away from her..very far.


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## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

I wish i didn't have self doubts regarding if breaking up was the right thing to do. Did i overreact? BCuz i believed her blowups and arguments were not healthy. She didnt think so. She thought it was normal.
This is f-up'd to ask cuz it may seem obvious to you, but what is normal in a relationship when conflict or arguments arise? I wasnt happy in my relationship because of how she addressed things and the things we argued over. Was i too sensitive?

Its hard for you guys to know without seeing us in action. She never had put downs or name calling, but it was blaming and if i tried to have a counter argument, i was insensitive because that's how she felt and i cant tell her that her belief that i was being intentionally insensitive or selfish was incorrect. So over time, i resolved the conflict by taking the blame and responsibility. I wound up feeling guilty and wrong 99% of the time, even if i disagreed, knew i wasnt at fault and would defend myself. 

Things like putting the seat down, or not being ready on a date night, where to go eat, were low key, and i am fine with. I think those are normal in a relationship. It was the bigger elephant in the room, not making her my #1 priority over my kids, needing commitment to marry that was difficult. Not calling her promptly enough. Jealousy.
Becoming inpatient with me to propose to her carried into much of our time. And because i wasnt proposing, she called our relationship fake. That i was stringing her along. This created all sorts of conflict.

She was comfortable in conflict seeking, i was not. I was too nice and never felt jealous when she would do similar things i did.
She fought a lot with her ex husband. Name calling, throwing things at each other. I was the total opposite. She never name called or threw ****, but she did not shy away from conflict. I just wish it came from a more calmer and respectful place. She was so mad and i wished she would talk with me first before getting so pissed. I was already in a defensive mode or wanting to avoid it all together. Or again.... was i too sensitive?? Dont get me wrong, eventually i started to push back and made decisions for me or my kids that could be deemed selfish and i wish i handled that differently.

Also, i now believe she has an anxious- seeking behavior, where she needs someone in her life.They say people like this are susceptible to cheating. And my ex did ask about my thoughts on what if she kissed another woman. I was suprised and told her, if i was even ok with it, that it needs to be transparent and honest. She had a close friend who i suspected was the one she referred to, cuz I'm 99% sure she is bi.
She never brought it up again, but i think she fooled around with her BEFORE she brought it up. They had a girls night out a few days before that revelation to me, so it made me wonder if there was a connection. 
To me honesty and trust are important. If she fooled around, letting go would be soooooo much easier. Thats a deal breaker cuz my ex wf cheated on me and was dishonest. Wish i would have asked my exgf point blank, so I'll never know for sure.


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## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

Thank you for listening and advice. My closest friend and my sister have listened to way to much from me and i dont want to tire them out and push them away. Which is why I'm here.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

You maybe better off. Truth is you weren't committed in the way she wanted, and that maybe a good thing. I know I expect my man to be committed to me above all others as I am to him. I'm sure our relationship would be classified as unhealthy and codependent. Of course we are going on 24 years and we are both fairly happy so I don't care what anyone thinks. I'm an alpha loud controlling female who charges hell if you mess with me or mine.

What's the point. I'm happy. He's happy. But I dated a man before this one who obviously chose his mom and her opinion over me. Said he wanted to marry me but couldn't hardly tell her we were dating. This did trigger lots of angst and problems in our relationship and I felt he was stringing me along. I'd break up with him and date others and he'd freak out. I'd come back. But in the end I walked away because he didn't want me enough. He drove me to the mall and said I'll buy you a ring right now and call my parents. Like that's how I want it. I wanted him to love me enough to do that without threats of leaving. I wanted to be number one not this is the least committed I can be and then when that wasn't enough go farther screw that. Five months later married to my husband after five weeks of dating. Cause he's my kind of screwed up. He's willing and wants to be with me and willing to do just about anything for me. 

I'm more sane now. And I'm glad I didn't marry the other 13 who asked.

While people can tell what normal is or isn't and what sane is or isn't. Only you can figure out what's going to make you happy. It sounds like you couldn't make her happy. And that's ok she needs someone who can commit in a way you can't. Move on don't string her along.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LostinUS said:


> Why do i feel i made a mistake/guilty of agreeing to a break up with her a month later, but when it happened, it felt like the right thing to do?
> 
> I posted my breakup in the men's and women forum a month ago. I was in a 3 year relationship that was really good probably 80% of the time. But the other 20% was significant in my eyes. We were wrestling with her wanting me to take that final step (move my kids in with her and marry) and me hesitating. I couldn't put my finger on why. It was a gut feeling, but i would doubt those sensations because we did get along and have good times too.... until I figured out why and told her( and a day later she initiated a break up).
> 
> ...


She wanted to break up with you, but didn't have the guts to do it. By pretending that you wanted the break up, she was able to get the break up she wanted, but to blame you for it!

Manipulative people like that are a nightmare in a relationship. You are best out of it, to be honest.


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## Barth (Aug 9, 2017)

> she is dating and having sex(I am truly struggling with this)

She moved on and you should too, unless you want an open relationship.


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## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

Went to the gym yesterday and I ran into my exgf. Yup.
We made eye contact and she had a sad frown. I smiled and she did the same and i said hello. I know you are thinking i should have kept walking. It was at this moment that i either screwed up or not.

We talked about how our families were doing after the storm, and then I told her I've been wanting to tell her some things (I needed to get off my chest) for awhile now. She started to cry so i asked if she wanted to talk somewhere private or not talk at all. We went to my car and spoke for nearly 3 hrs.
I apologized to her for my selfish behaviors and lack of communication, and I also told her my reasons for not being happy and that i felt she was trying to control me and pull me away from my kids and family. I also brought up the kissing a girl question she brought up amd how it triggered feelings of when my ez wf cheated on me.

She couldn't remember the conversation, but said it was just a low key curious question. She said she never kissed anyone or cheated.
She agreed she has responsibilities in what went wrong in the relationship. But she also brought up all the things i had done that were problems in her eyes. Which were several. 
She also brought up my exwf and how the dog we got will always be connected with my ex (my daughter got her dog while staying with her mom this summer, which i was ok with). She said i had no boundaries and let my kids, exwf and family walk all over me. That i never say no. She continued to bring up my ex, so i asked if she thought i still had feelings for my exwf, and she said yes! I explained that I used to harbor anger and resentment towards my ex until about year 2 of my divorce. And i forgave my ex for the infidelity and abandoning us (shes a depressed woman). Forgiveness was a blessing for me!
She also said that she broke up with me and the final straw was me telling her i didn't want to go on a short vacation with her, because i worried we would end up fighting like the trip we took a couple days prior. She said that she felt i abandonded her, which is her big trigger.

She also told me she was upset i didn't check on her during the storm (we live near Houston) and how everyone including her exhusband checked on her.
I brought up that i texted her once prior and once during the storm checking on her and her kids and each time she said they were fine.

On a side note: she said the first text i sent her prior to the storm, which was the first communication between us, she was in a store and she broke down crying and hyperventilating when she saw it was me.

Anyways, i felt pretty guilty hearing all the things I've ****ed up including after our breakup. She also stated she doesnt trust me because this is the 2nd time i left her. I clarified with her that she broke up with me, so how could i have abandonded her. And she also admitted she had trust issues with me when i said i wasnt ready yet to move in. There was also some resentment there. No wonder its been a rough year since then.

A lot more was said because we talked for 3 hrs.

I felt more frustrated and guilty about myself, post breakup and how she said i wasn't around. I mentioned in my early posts i wanted to be there, to protect her. She responds that action speaks louder than words. But i felt the breakup and the advice to stay NC, dictated that?
Yet, i was the one who initiated two texts checking on her and she was the one to breakup. She never reached out to me. Ever. So again, it seems to be alot of my fault.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

LostinUS said:


> Went to the gym yesterday and I ran into my exgf. Yup.
> We made eye contact and she had a sad frown. I smiled and she did the same and i said hello. I know you are thinking i should have kept walking. It was at this moment that i either screwed up or not.
> 
> We talked about how our families were doing after the storm, and then I told her I've been wanting to tell her some things (I needed to get off my chest) for awhile now. She started to cry so i asked if she wanted to talk somewhere private or not talk at all. We went to my car and spoke for nearly 3 hrs.
> ...


At this point you knew how this entire conversation would go with her and how it would be all your fault yet you jumped at the chance to have it so you could feel guilty all over again. 

I find it ironic she can still find more fault after breakup. The two of you broke up, that means she didn't want you in her life yet she wants you to worry about her and contact her to make sure she is ok. She's just playing games with you. Finally recognize the bullet you dodged with her and file this relationship away once and for all.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you should have kept walking.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And, yes, she 100% intended for you to feel guilty. 

I hope that was "closure" (something I don't actually believe in) for you so that now you can move on and rebuild your life without obsessing over your relationship with her.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

LostinUS said:


> I told her I've been wanting to tell her some things (I needed to get off my chest) for awhile now. She started to cry so i asked if she wanted to talk somewhere private or not talk at all. We went to my car and spoke for nearly 3 hrs.
> I apologized to her for my selfish behaviors and lack of communication, and I also told her my reasons for not being happy and that i felt she was trying to control me and pull me away from my kids and family. I also brought up the kissing a girl question she brought up amd how it triggered feelings of when my ez wf cheated on me.


Wait.

_*You* apologized?_



> She agreed she has responsibilities in what went wrong in the relationship. But she also brought up all the things i had done that were problems in her eyes. Which were several.
> She also brought up my exwf and how the dog we got will always be connected with my ex (my daughter got her dog while staying with her mom this summer, which i was ok with).


Again, wait.

She has a problem with your daughter's dog because it's vaguely associated with your ex-wife?

What kind of sociopath would want to get rid of your kid's dog over this?



> She said i had no boundaries and let my kids, exwf and family walk all over me. That i never say no.


That may or may not be true. You seem to have tolerated a lot from this woman and go on to say that you forgive your ex for her wrongs, blaming her depression. Do you think it's true? Is it possible you're seeking out broken women?



> She also said that she broke up with me and the final straw was me telling her i didn't want to go on a short vacation with her, because i worried we would end up fighting like the trip we took a couple days prior. She said that she felt i abandonded her, which is her big trigger.


$10 says she's been in therapy in the past, was told all about abandonment and borderline personality disorder, and learned how to play this card like an expert.



> She also told me she was upset i didn't check on her during the storm (we live near Houston) and how everyone including her exhusband checked on her.
> I brought up that i texted her once prior and once during the storm checking on her and her kids and each time she said they were fine.


She was the one who proposed the breakup. Sure, checking on her would be mighty nice of you, but she's not entitled to it. It sounds more like she's surprised that you weren't a total doormat after all and wants you to feel bad about it.



> On a side note: she said the first text i sent her prior to the storm, which was the first communication between us, she was in a store and she broke down crying and hyperventilating when she saw it was me.


 Is it a manipulative guilt trip or is it a severe emotional disorder? We may never know.



> She also stated she doesnt trust me because this is the 2nd time i left her.


Lovely. 

If I were in your shoes, I'd delete her number. Someday, when she reaches out, you can simply reply "Who is this?"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LostinUS said:


> Went to the gym yesterday and I ran into my exgf. Yup.
> We made eye contact and she had a sad frown. I smiled and she did the same and i said hello. I know you are thinking i should have kept walking. It was at this moment that i either screwed up or not.
> 
> We talked about how our families were doing after the storm, and then I told her I've been wanting to tell her some things (I needed to get off my chest) for awhile now. She started to cry so i asked if she wanted to talk somewhere private or not talk at all. We went to my car and spoke for nearly 3 hrs.
> ...


She claimed you didn't check on her during the storm, but then admitted that you did check up on her and it made her hyperventilate.

So, why did she feel the need to lie to you?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@LostinUS, you sure do a lot of talking.

When will you learn to listen and open your eyes?


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## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

I am starting to regret talking to her at all. It began with me wanting to tell her the things i held back on. But then by the end of the conversation, i was telling her i wanted to give it one last try.
We ended up meeting AGAIN yesterday, and it lasted 3 hrs again. She had unanswered questions. The temptation was too great for me.

I shared how i felt we may have had a lot of miscommunication and that i had behavioral patterns in the relationship that I've repeated before that i want to change. I keep screwing up relationships so i dont want to keep doing the wrong thibgs. 

She brought up things that i screwed up on and things she felt were unhealthy:
- my friendly relationship with my ex inlaws 
-belief that my agreeing to allow 2 pets that my kids brought home after spending the last 2 summers with their mom was my way of staying emotionally connected with my exwf.
-not going on the vacation trip with her was abandonment. That was the nail in the coffin for her.
- there were several other things she brought up.
I answered all of these. Some, such as the pets, i thought was crazy and that i have zero attachments or thoughts about my ex. Others i apologized for what i did and hurting her.
She also 
I brought up her question of kissing another woman and she said she never kissed anyone. Just a light hearted question. I told her it was a big trigger for me since my exwf cheated. So, she did say she was sorry for that. It was the first and only apology from her during our 6hr conversations.
I brought up when she would come across as controlling. As she explained herself, she opened up and said that during many of those times, she was lonely and missed me. She would have just liked for me to be next to her and comforting her. I told her that saying it this way was non confrontational for me and i was more empathetic and not defensive. This is what I've been needibg to hear. And these are the conversations i needes to have when we were together. But she doesnt believe she is controlling. She gets teary eyed and says she's not and is not a bad person. I told her that's how it was coming across to me.

She asked how this time would be different than the last time we broke up. I told her, we never discussed BOTH of our issues: my fear to move in, my avoidance and her trust and resentment, control, which snowballed during the last year. 

I cant help but feel responsible for triggering her abandonment the last time we broke up which resulted in all this underlying resentment and lack of trust that continued during the last year resulting in the controlling behaviors. I feel responsible!









She stated if we worked on things and it worked out, she's concerned how her kids and teenage daughter will view her. She doesn't want to appear a fool or weak to her family and friends.

She admitted she jumped in the dating pool soon after. She said she hasnt dated, but there were a couple of guys pursuing her. She said something to the effect that she needs to weigh her options. She asked if her dating was a deal breaker for me. I said we were not dating anymore, so i cant stop her, even though it hurts, but feel she should be actively working on possible reconciliation during this time too. She is still unsure about it. She said she wants to be with me, but worries too much damage is done. And especially how her kids will view her. She asked wouldnt it be easier for us to just start over with someone else? I said we had a lot of good things that were unique in our relationship and that its worth fighting for of we can resolve our issues. It would be worth it. She saod she desperately tried to tell me those things before we broke up, but i wouldnt listen. She's right, i wouldnt listen because i was unhappy dwelling on the negative which was the nagging and controlling behaviors. 

Before we parted ways, i gave her a hug and she suddenly kissed me, which i wasn't expecting. Not sure what to make of that. 

I got home and wondered what the hell did i just do? My doubts about myself a few days ago turned into me making concessions and apologizing. And i, nor she haven't mentioned what she is willing to do to reconcile. 

It may be because she is now stringing me along with no intention of reconciling. I'm afraid i gave her more power in this breakup dynamic. I did not handle getting back together the right way. I worry she is setting me up to really hurt me because she is still mad that i didnt go on the vacation trip with her and she had to go alone. I know there is resentment from her because she is only looking at the negatives about me. I wish i could do the same as it would help me move on from her. But i feel ots unhealthy to view people that way and harbor resentment and anger when the truth is really good and bad.

She always says she is not a bad person. But i am wondering if she is taking advantage of my moment of weakness to get attention from me (and others), and get pay back. I know that's an extreme way of thinking, but i cant rule it out. 

I believe the next time I talk to her, i turn the tables on her. Does she want to give it one last try or not. If she still doesnt know, what do i say or do?

I want to ask her What did she feels she did wrong in our relationship? How would she fix it? 
I am working on my boundaries and values. Is she on board with them? Or are they dealbreakers for her?
I need to know now if she's going to put any effort towards us. Its not right i sit in limbo while she weighs her options dating others.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

LostinUS said:


> She had unanswered questions.


**** her stupid questions.

Sorry, that just kind of slipped out. I mean, "OK, how did that go?"



> I shared how i felt we may have had a lot of miscommunication and that i had behavioral patterns in the relationship that I've repeated before that i want to change. I keep screwing up relationships so i dont want to keep doing the wrong thibgs.


Here, the unhealthiest behavior might have been not dumping her first.



> I brought up when she would come across as controlling. As she explained herself, she opened up and said that during many of those times, she was lonely and missed me. She would have just liked for me to be next to her and comforting her.


I'm sure it feels nice that she rephrased it in a way that makes it sound less crazy, but I'll bet the dogs aren't as needy as she is. Am I right?



> She asked how this time would be different than the last time we broke up. I told her, we never discussed BOTH of our issues: my fear to move in, my avoidance and her trust and resentment, control, which snowballed during the last year.


It doesn't sound like she's admitted that she needs to change any of her problem behaviors, including stirring up a bunch of drama and wasting your time and energy by staging this breakup, so what is your goal in entertaining a discussion of giving her another chance? Devouring six hours of your life here is likely just another way for her to assert control.



> I cant help but feel responsible for triggering her abandonment the last time we broke up which resulted in all this underlying resentment and lack of trust that continued during the last year resulting in the controlling behaviors. I feel responsible!


She is 100% responsible for her feelings and actions. It was entirely her fault that she screamed and threw things in her previous marriage. Now she starts crazy fights when you go on trips so you didn't want to go on a trip. 

Why would you? It's her choice to be a miserable travel companion, isn't it?



> She stated if we worked on things and it worked out, she's concerned how her kids and teenage daughter will view her. She doesn't want to appear a fool or weak to her family and friends.


This is a setup. Instead of allowing you to learn and grow, she's trying to frame the situation as one in which you lost the prize and must be even more submissive to win it. She'll feel entitled to stoke her crazy-fires twice as hot if you put yourself into this situation again.



> She's right, i wouldnt listen because i was unhappy dwelling on the negative which was the nagging and controlling behaviors.


Which she still refuses to take seriously.



> Before we parted ways, i gave her a hug and she suddenly kissed me, which i wasn't expecting. Not sure what to make of that.


Manipulation tactic.



> It may be because she is now stringing me along with no intention of reconciling. I'm afraid i gave her more power in this breakup dynamic....She always says she is not a bad person. But i am wondering if she is taking advantage of my moment of weakness to get attention from me (and others), and get pay back. I know that's an extreme way of thinking, but i cant rule it out....Its not right i sit in limbo while she weighs her options dating others.


That's not extreme. That's you being honest with yourself that you finally smell a rat.

Why do you want there to be a power balance at all? You don't have children together. It can simply be over and done.

You're sitting in limbo by choice. She will string you along until you are dead and gone if you want. Alternately, you can go date others. Some other poor sod can worry about whether or not she's a bad person.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OMG.

This woman is doing a psychological number on you. I cringe and feel slightly nauseous when reading about it, because I see shades of myself...I had a relationship with a toxic man after my divorce. Her explaining her FEELINGS behind her toxic, 100% UNHEALTHY behaviors and actions do not make them okay. I repeat.... her hurt feelings do not negate the fact that her actions and responses are unhealthy and toxic. Period. Read that over and over.


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## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

Why is this so hard for me to realize she is a toxic individual? I hear everyone's responses here and i listen and it makes sense on a logical level. But my heart keeps screwing things up. After a year of hearing its all my fault, i slowly start to believe it. I am beating myself up. But meeting her and seeing that even with me accepting responsibility and apologizing, that she can't do the same for her part. Not even close. She either believes she did nothing wrong, or she knows but doesn't want me to catch on. And that's BS.

I realized my dumbass was the only one taking responsibility. Apologizing and saying how i can change to be a better person. She said one comment, i know i played a role in the problems too". If we talk again, i want to know how she will change, what did she do wrong, and her accepting responsibility. 

Also, i feel a fool for not sounding like a "player" when she asked if i was dating other girls. I responded that I'm focusing on myself and not into it right now. Then later she drops the 2 guy prospects. I almost feel like telling her that i changed my mind and its time to jump back in. But now it would sound immature and responding to what she is doing. 

If she is unwilling to change or work on her issues, I'm going to officially move on because it is definitive that she is incapable of change. I'm kinda planning on it because the bulk of 6hrs has been about what i did wrong.

So how do i get is to talk again for me to bring up my unanswered questions. Do i give it a couple days? Invite her with me to my counseling session tomorrow? Wait for her to respond?


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## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

Livvie said:


> OMG.
> 
> This woman is doing a psychological number on you. I cringe and feel slightly nauseous when reading about it, because I see shades of myself...I had a relationship with a toxic man after my divorce. Her explaining her FEELINGS behind her toxic, 100% UNHEALTHY behaviors and actions do not make them okay. I repeat.... her hurt feelings do not negate the fact that her actions and responses are unhealthy and toxic. Period. Read that over and over.


Are you saying that even beneath the anger and control is that it's still TOXIC? It seems that saying how you feel in a more calmer and loving way wouldn't be toxic. Or are you saying that its not how it's said, but what is the intent or purpose?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The Waiting Game:


You are waiting for her to Blink. To say Sorry. 
She is waiting for you to Slink. Lower, to say you are sorry, a Sorry prospect of a man.
..........................................................................................................................................

When all does not go as planned:

She is very astute. She watches your feet.
When one of your feet gets out the door....the Sorry hook grabs your ankle; pulls your foot into her 'concerned' State of Affairs.

Then comes the saddened eyes, maybe a small tear, then a shy kiss, her left hand gently rubbing your crotch.

Sorry's are OK. When the Lead Actress Ad-Libs, goes off-script.

Sorry's must be reinforced by Action and Remittance. The Learning Curve on a Level Headed Plane.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

LostinUS said:


> Are you saying that even beneath the anger and control is that it's still TOXIC? It seems that saying how you feel in a more calmer and loving way wouldn't be toxic. Or are you saying that its not how it's said, but what is the intent or purpose?


You can absolutely be abused with a loving, patient smile.

I know it sounds better when she rephrases it, but irrational neediness is a form of toxic control, too. These are the people who expect you to compromise your education, career, parental relationships, friendships, all because they claim they "need".

Look at the pattern.

She needs you to get rid of your little girl's dog.

She needs you to prioritize her over your little girl.

She needs you to travel with her even though she needs to make you miserable while you're there.

She needs you to engage in a breakup kabuki drama with her even though she needs you to continue checking on her even while she needs to start talking to other men.

She needs six hours of your undivided attention to put on her theater of victimization over the last couple of days. You could have watched _Gone With the Wind_ instead, they only needed four for Scarlett O'Hara's.

"I'm lonely. I miss you. Be next to me. Comfort me."

It sounds sweet and manageable in isolation, but the pattern reveals something darker. 

"Move into my house. Buy me a ring. Neglect your daughter. NOW."

She does not care if she burns down the rest of your life, even takes away your child's pet, as long as she is in control of you. If you assert your identity as a human being who has your own needs and a life outside of her needs, you're "abandoning" her.

None of this sounds OK.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

LostinUS said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > OMG.
> ...


Indeed saying how you feel in a calmer way is better. The delivery doesn't change that !!it's still toxic!!! That her feelings, needs, wishes, are toxic, and incredibly UNHEALTHY. If I sat you down and calmly told you how I was poisoning a family member, but serving it to them in gourmet food, while also providing them with a loving interaction from me, it does not change that what I'm doing is.... heinous.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

LostinUS said:


> Why is this so hard for me to realize she is a toxic individual? I hear everyone's responses here and i listen and it makes sense on a logical level. But my heart keeps screwing things up. After a year of hearing its all my fault, i slowly start to believe it. I am beating myself up. But meeting her and seeing that even with me accepting responsibility and apologizing, that she can't do the same for her part. Not even close. She either believes she did nothing wrong, or she knows but doesn't want me to catch on. And that's BS.
> 
> I realized my dumbass was the only one taking responsibility. Apologizing and saying how i can change to be a better person. She said one comment, i know i played a role in the problems too". If we talk again, i want to know how she will change, what did she do wrong, and her accepting responsibility.
> 
> ...


You must accept you will never get answers to the unanswered questions and quit trying to come up with new and creative ways to ask her or engage her. She wants it all your fault, nothing will change that and had you done things different it would have been all your fault and in the same position as you are today. 

Once you finally allow yourself to detach from her you not care one bit the whole fault thing. She wants to blame you for her decisions, who cares. That's the attitude you need to take. If she called you up right now said it was all her fault it would change nothing. You are not in a relationship any longer and she wanted out.


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## LostinUS (Jul 28, 2012)

Is there anyway i can handle this going forward that allows me to not look like the sucker i ended up being these last 2 days?
I'm not sure how to proceed. I ended up looking desperate and accepting much of the blame(which enabled her bs even more). I basically told her its not a deal breaker dating others. How do i save face? I know some of you would say not to give a f***, but i don't want to go out with a wimper.
I want to tell her she did not take any responsibility for her toxic feelings and behaviors. And I'm not selling out what is important to me to make her happy. She's responsible for that. It just won't work.
I hate being a schmuck about the deal breaker dating thing. I wish i had lied and told her i have prospects too. She feels she got the best of me, again, at my expense. How do i rectify that?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

LostinUS said:


> Is there anyway i can handle this going forward that allows me to not look like the sucker i ended up being these last 2 days?
> I'm not sure how to proceed. I ended up looking desperate and accepting much of the blame(which enabled her bs even more). I basically told her its not a deal breaker dating others. How do i save face? I know some of you would say not to give a f***, but i don't want to go out with a wimper.
> I want to tell her she did not take any responsibility for her toxic feelings and behaviors. And I'm not selling out what is important to me to make her happy. She's responsible for that. It just won't work.
> I hate being a schmuck about the deal breaker dating thing. I wish i had lied and told her i have prospects too. She feels she got the best of me, again, at my expense. How do i rectify that?


I don't think you can say anything to rectify the dynamic, except.... just cut contact!

You aren't going to be able to make her see or acknowledge her dysfunction. Futile.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I agree. Just back off. She's really good at manipulation. She pulls the strings and makes you dance. The key is for you to STOP TALKING. You're not going to get her to accept blame. You're not going to come out ahead. It just gets more and more ridiculous every time you talk with her. So stop. Move on. Again.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

They're right. She wants control. Deny it by ignoring her.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LostinUS said:


> So how do i get is to talk again for me to bring up my unanswered questions. Do i give it a couple days? Invite her with me to my counseling session tomorrow? Wait for her to respond?


NO NO NO NO!!

You have GOT to LET... THIS.... GO!!

None of it matters as to the why this or that happened or the who said what or didnt say the other. The fact of the matter is she was WRONG for you. And life has done you a big damn favor and taken her away, so trust it and just LET IT GO! Yes you have some work to do on yourself, you need to find out WHY you are so damn insistent on taking the blame for everything and why you cant let go of a toxic person and how NOT to repeat this in the future. 

Dont talk to her anymore. PERIOD.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Lost, I agree with @*Mister* that the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, temper tantrums, controlling attitude, strong fear of abandonment, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as irrational jealousy and temper tantrums.

I therefore suggest that you take a quick look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join* Mister* and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Lost.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

If she was seeing other dudes within 2 weeks of your 3-year relationship coming to an end, then she probably wasn't that into you anyway, and likely wanted marriage, etc primarily for the security.

IOW, you made the right choice.

Onward and upward.


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