# When you don't care for sex anymore...



## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

I've posted in the Sex in Marriage forum a number of times regarding my sex life, in that want a more adventurous sex life while my wife is decidedly more conservative in her tastes. 

Several months back, while we were playing a sexual board game-type game, my wife informed me that the game, which we had played several times in the past and I thought she enjoyed, was the "least arousing thing" she had ever done and told me she never wanted to play it again (this didn't evolve into a shouting much, just that she didn't like it or wanted to play it).

My feeling were crushed. I always knew that she only tried things because I asked her to (when I've brought up the subject of fantasies before, her answer is always "my only fantasy is to be with you").

Now, I was always the LD in our relationship. She had a partial hysterectomy a few years back, and our sexual desire plateaued. But when she confessed to me what she did, my desire to be with her dropped through the floor. We have sex maybe twice a month, max. She always initiates it. I try to enjoy it as much as I can, but I haven't had an orgasm through intercourse in at least two months.

In the past, I've tried to spice up things up through trying new things. I would get rebuffed most of the time, but I didn't take it personally, and I would still enjoy the sex we had. Now I'm not interested in trying anything new, much less vanilla sex on it's own, or even talking to my wife about it. Just not interested in having sex with her anymore.

I know I'm in trouble. I've even caught myself eyeing other women in the gym. What do I do now?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sounds like you just need to discuss things with her. Yet you already state you don't even want to talk to her about it.

Why not leave then?

If you are at the point where you refuse to even discuss how things might get better, throw in the towel.

Or are you waiting for her to read your mind and drag it out of you?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

If you figure out what to do, tell me. I'm not oogling other women, but my level of desire is dropping fast as well.

I was told that the only real reason we have sex is for me, and that she could go months without it. She didn't say it exactly like that, she was more tactful and it came out through a much longer conversation, but that was the jist of it. No sexual fantasies, no real desire, virtually everything we try is because I suggest it, she's told me that most of those things she does, she does because she knows I like it and not for herself, and even some basic things that I do like (such as receiving oral) is like pulling teeth for her to do. 

I haven't even asked for anything outside of vanilla sex in five months, and I'm not sure if she's even noticed. She may have, but isn't mentioning it to me in case it reminds me to ask for it. Our two times a week standard is now dropping and is about 60% of that now. I'm just fed up with talking about it because I know she doesn't want to talk about it. She does talk about it, but I know that while things might improve for a little bit, they will fall back off again in a few months max and then I'll have to have another talk about it. After a while you just say **** it and give up. Besides, what fun is sex when you can't even tell anymore if your spouse even wants it or not. Almost all the time now I'm wondering if she even wants to be there anymore or not, or if she's even getting anything out of it.

A lack of enthusiasm is such a killer. But I don't want to talk about it because I'm tired of talking about it and I know she is too.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> If you figure out what to do, tell me. I'm not oogling other women, but my level of desire is dropping fast as well.
> 
> I was told that the only real reason we have sex is for me, and that she could go months without it. She didn't say it exactly like that, she was more tactful and it came out through a much longer conversation, but that was the jist of it. No sexual fantasies, no real desire, virtually everything we try is because I suggest it, she's told me that most of those things she does, she does because she knows I like it and not for herself, and even some basic things that I do like (such as receiving oral) is like pulling teeth for her to do.
> 
> ...



Did you marry my wife?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> I've posted in the Sex in Marriage forum a number of times regarding my sex life, in that want a more adventurous sex life while my wife is decidedly more conservative in her tastes.
> 
> Several months back, while we were playing a sexual board game-type game, my wife informed me that the game, which we had played several times in the past and I thought she enjoyed, was the "least arousing thing" she had ever done and told me she never wanted to play it again (this didn't evolve into a shouting much, just that she didn't like it or wanted to play it).
> 
> ...



Looking at other women isn't the issue.

Its actually quite healthy and normal. Women do the same thing with guys.....

I am in a similar situation as yourself. I love the fantasies and spice it up sex, but my wifee is very conservative and only vanilla sex and no talking dirty, or games, nope.

Just focus on yourself more and enjoy life.


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

Well, boiling down the common wisdom around here, I think you have a handful of choices, in what I would rate from least to most desirable outcome:

1) Have affairs, with all the baggage and devastation that entails.
2) Say nothing and bottle it up. Let desire die and resentment build on both sides, leaving you ripe for #1 to happen, on your side or hers.
3) Accept what it is. Focus on yourself; include her in the times and activity where your good life overlaps (friends, family, etc.) - the stuff outside of bed. Remain friends. Live your own life.
4) Divorce.  Recognize it's too much to overcome.
5) Have a very frank talk with her, explaining that her lack of desire is killing your soul. Tell her that you are not prepared to live this way forever but will support her in getting to a better place as long as she's willing to put in the leg work (counseling, ruling out medical issues) with you.

I think any strategy will be some shade of one of those options. All of them will hurt. I guess it's up to you now....


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

CuddleBug said:


> Did you marry my wife?


 
Kingsfan...Cuddlebug.

It does seem like we all have the same wife. Sex is for my benifit only. It's like drinking wine alone...Why bother. Whats the fun in that...However, if I drink enough, the lack of interest on her part doesn't matter. I am tired of drinking wine though.

I can relate Dr. Rockstar. I see mysrelf looking at other women a lot more. Just yesterday I was in the looking for a bottle of wine and I started a conversation with a beautiful woman. There was a little spark. Then I walked away.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

What turns your wife on? That is where your head should be. If your primary goal is giving your wife sexual pleasure and intimacy, it really doesn't matter whether you have an orgasm. Getting you to orgasm is her problem to figure out. Your business is pleasing her. So, she's not into a particular board game. Find out what her thing is and get on it. If you're worried about what you want and what you don't want, what you feel and don't feel, who's taking care of your wife? Maybe she needs to slow cook, maybe she'd like to take a walk, talk, cuddle, go dancing, whatever. My wife likes her hair brushed and a massage. The more often I brush her hair, the more often I get sex. Whether you take the long or the short way around the fence, you still end up where you want to be.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

If your wife doesn't care to have sex, what about having sex outside of marriage (with her knowledge and consent)? Surely she would rather other women take care of you freeing her up for more Facebook and television.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

He is the one who is LD in this relationship, and he is the one who doesn't want sex with his wife anymore. So why should he get another woman on the side, now? I'm confused.

I say get divorced.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

> Now, I was always the LD in our relationship. She had a partial hysterectomy a few years back, and our sexual desire plateaued. But when she confessed to me what she did, my desire to be with her dropped through the floor.


I'm confused about what she did that caused his already admittedly low drive to drop "through the floor." The hysterectomy? Seems like that would be a health issue outside of her control. :scratchhead:


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Sounds like you just need to discuss things with her. Yet you already state you don't even want to talk to her about it.
> 
> Why not leave then?
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Not only is she still having sex with him, she's the one initiating. There's more than one way to get to Atlanta. If the board game doesn't blow her skirt up, something else still does.


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## just_about_done (Feb 6, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Don't understand why a wife having sex with her husband just to please him makes him so unhappy. Its an act of love. Its certainly more loving than cutting him off.
> 
> Dr R she loves you and that is why she has sex with you. She may feel depressed because of the hysterectomy but she loves you enough to continue to want tint that their wives are having sex to make you happy. Does it help to think of it the way?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Answer to the first part. It makes us unhappy just like an insincere compliment would make most women unhappy. For me, and I'd guess a lot of men, having your wife get excited about having sex with you is the equivalent of compliments from a woman's husband. My wife can tell me she finds me attractive until the cows come home. It means nothing if every time I try to initiate sex she gets that "time to make the donuts" look on her face.


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## just_about_done (Feb 6, 2013)

Is he really the LD one if all the sexual things they do is just her trying to please him? Wouldn't that mean her drive is lower than his? I guess she could be higher drive and just not adventurous.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Find out what her thing is and get on it.


Sometimes this is eaasier said then done. There is another thread on this forum about how hard it is to get some wives (and I'd assume some husbands as well) to discuss their fantassies, or even to admit to what they like and don't like. Honestly, I think some spouses do not put any thought into it, even when directly asked what it is they want/desire/need to enjoy sex or even to want sex. Considering the OP said he is trying to spice up their sex life, I'd also think it's a given he has at least asked what she wants or left the door open for her to mention anything she wants.



Catherine602 said:


> Don't understand why a wife having sex with her husband just to please him makes him so unhappy. Its an act of love. Its certainly more loving than cutting him off.


It is better than being cut off, but that's like saying it's better to be fed cold, lumpy, day-old porridge instead of dog ****.

Imagine if you really wanted a hug from your husband and he gave it to you but you could tell he's got his head turned to watch the TV, and really can't wait for you to be done so that he can go back to what he's doing. Are you really getting from that hug what you want? That's how sex feels for us when you can tell your wife would rather be doing something (or anything) else.

Your husband is hugging you because he loves you, but not because he wants to, and as a result, that connection is gone. It's only a fraction of what it needs to be and really is barely any better than getting a hug from a stranger. You don't want that hug just to be hugged, you want the emotional bond you get from it through a physical act. Ditto for sex for a man.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Don't understand why a wife having sex with her husband just to please him makes him so unhappy. Its an act of love. Its certainly more loving than cutting him off.
> 
> Dr R she loves you and that is why she has sex with you. She may feel depressed because of the hysterectomy but she loves you enough to continue to want tint that their wives are having sex to make you happy. Does it help to think of it the way?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine,
Your point is well taken. I'm sure that for a wife that has little/no desire, just the effort it takes to "force" herself to have sex even though she doesn't want to is tremendous. It is a sign of love and devotion to her husband that she is willing to do something just for him, even though she doesn't want to do it. I will agree that the wife needs to be commended for her efforts. Unfortunately, it is probably not good enough.

But I think Kingsfan's comments are dead on. 

*"It is better than being cut off, but that's like saying it's better to be fed cold, lumpy, day-old porridge instead of dog ****."*

It's not all about the deed itself. It's also about the attitude with which it is done. No matter how good of an actress the wife is, duty sex or sex out of a sense of obligation is almost always detected and that does nothing to help strengthen the emotional bond that a man needs through sex with his wife. 

I have often said (and I believe most men would say) that a female's attractiveness can greatly be enhanced through enthusiasm and having a great attitude toward sex. And in a marriage, expressing your love to your husband through willing and desirable sex is the best way to emotionally connect with him. Going through the motions can actually be worse than doing nothing at all.

When I see a discussion on this topic, I always think about the movie The Breakup with Jennifer Aniston and Vince Vaughn. There is a scene fairly early in the movie where the couple fights over the fact that she wants him to *want* to do the dishes. He offered to do the dishes, but he did so reluctantly and not without her knowing that he really did not want to do them. She wants him to want to do things for her that will endear him to her. He doesn't understand what the problem is. He agreed to do the dishes. He doesn't want to but he will. So why is she upset? The dishes will get done in either scenario, but how they get done and with what attitude is very important to her. Take a look at the scene here.

In the final analysis, I'm not sure that I have the answer. If a woman just does not feel like making love and her desire is just not there, she can't just manufacture the desire. And just going through the motions in a mechanical manner won't really work in the long run. Do you try to "fake it til you make it"? Does the HD partner just simply need to lower his expectations? I don't claim to have the answer.

BTW - This can work in either direction (Male/Female or Female/Male).


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Men complaining about a lack of enthusiasm are not complaining because their wives don't act like porn stars. Anyone who has any level of sexual experience understands that women don't really act like they're on a roller coaster when they're having sex. That's not the complaint.

The complaint is when your wife does what Athol calls "hating you with her vagina." That is entirely different. If you approach sex with your husband with a resentful attitude that communicates that you just want him to get this over with quickly, then you're not really showing your husband love.

You don't have to love anal. You don't have to climax with deafening screams. You don't have to suggest that your single best friend would make up a great threesome. Just act like you want to be there.

For example, suppose that 75% of the time you asked your husband to talk he rolled his eyes, sighed loudly, came over and slumped into a chair, glared at you and said, "Fine. Go ahead." Would that make you feel valued? Would you feel like he enjoyed talking with you? Probably not. And if your husband complained that you just want to turn your living room into the set of The View, where endless gabbing occurs, he would be wrong. You probably don't want him to turn into Oprah and just talk for hours on nothing of consequence. You just want him to make a little time for you and be polite.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't mean to say that the HD person should take what ever they get. i don't think there is any shared experience in life that is approached by two people with exactly the same level of enthusiasm at all times. I really can't see why sex is any different. I act the way I feel, I can't put on an act about something so emotionally charged. It takes a high level of trust and vulnerability for me.
> 
> Should i behave as if I am in lust when I am not in order to please my partner? I suppose I could try if it was really important to him that I be someone I am not. It would eat away at my sense of being loved for me. I would feel as if I were not enough. The way I feel is not important. I just have to pretend to be someone else to make him happy. I am certain I would withdraw if I was required to do that.


That's the issue. We don't want you to 'behave as if you were in lust', we want you to be in lust, or at the very least try to get into a lust-state. You don't have to be swinging from a chandelier, but it'd be nice to not have that mental block in the back of our head wondering if our wives even desire us at all. 

And I'm not just talking in the bedroom. Do a little reading, spend some time on it. Other things in the relationship are important, like managing the finances, career development, raising kids, maintaining the house, etc. and it is a generally accepted principal that when it comes to these things, both people in the relationship should at least try to work on those aspects of the relationship, try to figure out what they can do to make the marriage work on those levels. Learn what your kids like and don't like, share the responsibility of managing the house, etc. Sex should be no different, so spend some time and actually try to understand what you want and what will make sex more enjoyable for you, make you get in the mood more, etc. and then relay us that information so we can have something to at least work with, or better yet, work with us to make sex better. 'Behaving' just puts a band-aid on gunshot wound.



Catherine602 said:


> I know this is not popular but I'll say what I feel anyway. I think porn gives an unrealistic portrayal of what women are like sexually. The women are all the same in porn, they are always theatrically turned on in the same way. All women are different, they have likes and dislikes, limitations, distinct personalities. Men lament the lack of enthusiasm on the part of their wives. I wonder if the enthusiasm is evident but not appreciated because it is not like a porn actress.
> 
> Maybe there are unique sexual behaviors that are subtle but discernible. If a man has been conditioned to expect what they see in porn, he is libel to miss it while he is looking for theatrics. Maybe women who are sensitive to the lack of appreciation for who they are, withdraw.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Two points:

A) I think women put more pressure on women then men do.

B) Did you ever consider that it's a good thing porn gives an unrealistic version of women to men?

For me it is, because frankly if all women were like that, there's no way I'd be that interested in women. Porn gives the illusion that women are just horny as hell and need **** more than food. 

Sure, that'd be kind of cool for a little bit, but it'd get old fast in the long-run. I don't want my wife to be like that girl in a porn very often. Once in a while it feels great to be heavily desired, but generally speking most men aren't after 'sex' in a marriage, they are after the emotions behind it. For every moan my wife gives during sex, I want to hear five 'I love you' s. I want that emotional closeness, and I'm not going to get that when she's telling me to **** her hard, or for me to 'lick that *****' or when she says "I need your hard ****" 

Like I said, all that is nice on occassion, because it makes you feel really good to be desired that much, but it's more of an occassional thing. 95% of the time I just want to have her wrap her legs around me and pull me in tighter when we are making love, I want to kiss her on the lips, I want to tell her I love her in the middle of sex, i want her to do the same thing, I want to hold her tight against me if she's on top, I want to kiss every inch of her body and I want to enjoy her caressing every inch of me. That's not porn, nor is that an image I get from porn. That's an image I get from the heart, because that's where my love for my wife resides.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> That's the issue. We don't want you to 'behave as if you were in lust', we want you to be in lust, or at the very least try to get into a lust-state. You don't have to be swinging from a chandelier, but it'd be nice to not have that mental block in the back of our head wondering if our wives even desire us at all.
> 
> And I'm not just talking in the bedroom. Do a little reading, spend some time on it. Other things in the relationship are important, like managing the finances, career development, raising kids, maintaining the house, etc. and it is a generally accepted principal that when it comes to these things, both people in the relationship should at least try to work on those aspects of the relationship, try to figure out what they can do to make the marriage work on those levels. Learn what your kids like and don't like, share the responsibility of managing the house, etc. Sex should be no different, so spend some time and actually try to understand what you want and what will make sex more enjoyable for you, make you get in the mood more, etc. and then relay us that information so we can have something to at least work with, or better yet, work with us to make sex better. 'Behaving' just puts a band-aid on gunshot wound.
> 
> ...


That's so beautiful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

What about your life outside of the bedroom? If its not admittedly as good as it should be that could impact her drive.

Women are also hard-wired differently. Not all but a good number get turned on and full of lust by your helping us get in the mood mentally. A lot of times a partner gets horny, thinks his spouse is right there at the same level he is, ditches foreplay, just starts going for it and wonders why we are LD. Sometimes I feel like we are machines to be on the ready every time our partner is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

wifenumber2 said:


> What about your life outside of the bedroom? If its not admittedly as good as it should be that could impact her drive.
> 
> Women are also hard-wired differently. Not all but a good number get turned on and full of lust by your helping us get in the mood mentally. A lot of times a partner gets horny, thinks his spouse is right there at the same level he is, ditches foreplay, just starts going for it and wonders why we are LD. Sometimes I feel like we are machines to be on the ready every time our partner is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So are you a machine that turns on when your husband is ready? Or are you saying that men look at women as machines that turn on when they are ready?

Some men and women are almost always ready... Something to think about.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

wifenumber2 said:


> What about your life outside of the bedroom? If its not admittedly as good as it should be that could impact her drive.
> 
> Women are also hard-wired differently. Not all but a good number get turned on and full of lust by your helping us get in the mood mentally. A lot of times a partner gets horny, thinks his spouse is right there at the same level he is, ditches foreplay, just starts going for it and wonders why we are LD. Sometimes I feel like we are machines to be on the ready every time our partner is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know about all women, but I know that if the few women I've been with in my life would actually spend 1/100th as much time on trying to figure out what I could do to turn them on or what gets them into the mood as they spend on Pogo or watching Dancing with the Stars, I'd likely be getting laid more often than a brick at a construction site, because I would do virtually whatever it takes to get her into the mood.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> I don't know about all women, but I know that if the few women I've been with in my life would actually spend 1/100th as much time on trying to figure out what I could do to turn them on or what gets them into the mood as they spend on Pogo or watching Dancing with the Stars, I'd likely be getting laid more often than a brick at a construction site, because I would do virtually whatever it takes to get her into the mood.


So they don't or WON'T know what turns them on?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

treyvion said:


> So they don't or WON'T know what turns them on?


They won't take the time (at least not much of it) to actually contemplate what turns them on, talk to a doctor, do some reading, look for ideas, etc. The few things I do get for suggestions, they won't try very often (like maybe once a year, so I'm not sure how something that turns you on can be just a once a year thing).

Frankly, it all comes down to effort. I think it was you that used the term 'LazyD' and that seems to be the truth in my case.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> They won't take the time (at least not much of it) to actually contemplate what turns them on, talk to a doctor, do some reading, look for ideas, etc. The few things I do get for suggestions, they won't try very often (like maybe once a year, so I'm not sure how something that turns you on can be just a once a year thing).
> 
> Frankly, it all comes down to effort. I think it was you that used the term 'LazyD' and that seems to be the truth in my case.


The 5 senses:

Taste, Touch, Smell, Sight, Sound

It's always fun for us HD's when they are "always on" at least for us.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

treyvion said:


> The 5 senses:
> 
> Taste, Touch, Smell, Sight, Sound
> 
> It's always fun for us HD's when they are "always on" at least for us.


It's not fun when they are on and your spouses aren't.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said: "They won't take the time (at least not much of it) to actually contemplate what turns them on, talk to a doctor, do some reading, look for ideas, etc. The few things I do get for suggestions, they won't try very often (like maybe once a year, so I'm not sure how something that turns you on can be just a once a year thing).

Frankly, it all comes down to effort. I think it was you that used the term 'LazyD' and that seems to be the truth in my case."


OK, I know this might not make any difference, she might not put in the effort ever, but.......WHY would you or any man just let this slide?

Just to keep the peace?

Is keeping the peace now going to be a good thing if you end up getting a divorce later?

What I'm proposing is to bring this topic up and keep bringing it up, DAILY if necessary, until your spouse knows they are facing a divorce if it isn't dealt with.

Look, I'm very uppity. I don't fear conflict and I will deliberately provoke conflict if necessary rather than let anything slide. The REASON I am like this is because I have already been divorced once. I know how painful it is and I know how much I would like to avoid another one. I would much rather cause a fight over anything that is a potential marriage killer (like lack of sex) than keep the peace.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> It's not fun when they are on and your spouses aren't.


No it's not. When I'm on quality of life across the board is better, motivation is better, my senses are better, my memory and vision is better. I don't really see a downside unless I'm trying to get in all the ladies pants and getting into trouble. Responsibilities get taken care of.

Perhaps they "forgot" what it feels like.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

I haven't read the OP's previous posts, but I wonder what the relationship used to be like. Was she more adventurous at some point in time and that has faded? There is a point where she played the game, had you thinking that she enjoyed it, and now tells you she never did enjoy it and won't do it again. Is she being manipulative here or was she being dishonest to have gone along and acted like she enjoyed it. Was she always totally vanilla with sex and have you pressured her to step outside her zone? At the end of the day we're missing a lot of communication at the least. After that it sounds like we're missing a willingness to compromise and understand that loving your partner is about providing for his/her needs.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> kingsfan said: "They won't take the time (at least not much of it) to actually contemplate what turns them on, talk to a doctor, do some reading, look for ideas, etc. The few things I do get for suggestions, they won't try very often (like maybe once a year, so I'm not sure how something that turns you on can be just a once a year thing).
> 
> Frankly, it all comes down to effort. I think it was you that used the term 'LazyD' and that seems to be the truth in my case."
> 
> ...


This is where reality supersedes message board reality for a moment.

I know Faithful Wife you will say that I shouldn't stay, that there is no excuse, etc. And I know you mean that with all sincerity, and know you mean well.

And ideally, you may even be correct.

I want to give some background on the situation. Firstly, my situation isn't as bad as others; it's just not up to the level I want. I'm not saying that to justify anything, rather to give a better picture. Frequency is about 2x every 10 days or so, with my ideal frequency being 2x a week, and on occasion more frequently. So frequency is lower than I'd like, but not by much and quite honestly it doesn't bother me.

Where my issue is is variety and effort.

I don't put up with it to keep the peace. Actually when I talk to my fiancee, it's fine. We have worked hard to open up the line of communication on sex and while it's not terrific, we can discuss sex and anything about sex, including positions, desires, etc. 

However I can tell she finds it uneasy to discuss sex, or rather, uneasy to discuss sex when the conversation is about me getting something new, or more of something. She says she feels like she's letting me down and also gets uncomfortable. Yet she also doesn't want to have sex much at all. She's told me before that as far as her sex drive goes, she could go months without and it not bother her. She does like the closeness though and does want me to be happy so we do have sex at the frequency I stated above.

But it is just sex. Not that regular, or vanilla, sex is bad; it's just that some variety and intensity would be nice. But for those to occur, I have to remind her that things are falling off. Then the lingerie comes out, a BJ or two will happen, a different position or two, and it's all good for a few months. Then it falls back off again and the cycle repeats.

After a while you just get tired of the circle. You feel like a dog chasing its tail and like you're the only one trying. And honestly, when you're the only one trying, it kills a lot of the desire for it. 

Which comes back to my second point, effort.

If my fiancee was like this after having tried going to the doctor, after having looked up ideas, tried to work with me to see what she likes, if she had really put an honest effort into it with me, then it wouldn't bother me as much. Sure, I might still be disappointed, but not to the same level or in the same way. 

And I said 'with me' for a reason. She has claimed to have done a lot of that stuff to kick start her libido with past long-term relationships, but not with me. And though I have tried to convince her to try again with me, she won't. She says that it didn't work then, so it won't work now. I don't agree, but that road has been discussed repeatedly with no change. After hearing what so many women here say about how they are treated outside the bedroom impacting on what goes on in it, I'd have thought she'd try again, considering I know I'm a better person to her than her past lovers have been by a country mile, but she won't. 

So discussing it every day isn't really even appealing to me at this point. Frankly, discussing something every day to me just sounds like a polite way to say I should hound her into giving me more sex. I refuse to do that. I want her to want it. I want her to want me. I don't want her having sex with me because she feels like she has to, and if that's my problem, well then it is my problem and right now, I'm quite content to live with it. I've pretty much just given up on pushing for an exciting sex life. It takes two people to want that and I know she doesn't. Or at least doesn't enough to put the effort in to get it.

And I won't divorce her (we aren't married technically but we basically are, I can go more into that if you'd like). Outside the bedroom we have very few issues, nothing major. The only problem is the sex. And yes I know that's been said before around here but for me that is the case. The only place in this world we have a problem is is in the bedroom.

Could I leave and find someone better in the bedroom? Very likely. Finding someone who shows some level of actual desire for me (I mean ripping my clothes off, 'needing me', etc.) would be a step up. However, am I going to find someone better in all the other areas of my life? Very doubtful. 

She's an amazing person outside the bedroom. Even getting involved with a 'normal' person I would consider a significant downgrade from her outside the bedroom, so it's not something I'd consider.

Another thing to factor in is that my fiancee was raped as a teenager. She had a rough childhood and was put into a foster home and was raped by the 'dad' figure there. She still has triggers from it. It's hard for her, and I get that. There's something’s I can't do to her (like give her oral) to this day from that experience, and it happened 26 years ago. After that experience, she went down a bad road for about six or seven years, and ended up in relationship after relationship of men just using her and in some cases being abusive, mostly emotionally, but also physically. 

So to her sex long ago became something that wasn't pleasurable to her. She feels that I am the only person she's been with that actually loves her. The only man she's been with that wants to be with her in a romantic way, not just in an 'I need to get laid' way. It took her a long time to understand that.

I didn't know her past until well after we had started dating. Knowing what I was in for sexually, I likely wouldn't have dated her if I had known. But where I am now, there's no way I'd leave her. 

And for the record Faithful Wife, I am divorced myself once. So is she, and so did her parents. I know where you are coming from; I just don't share your point of view, at least not in my particular case. And like us all, all of our relationships are unique and require different treatment, so I'm doing what I feel is best right now. Could that change down the road? Possibly. Maybe I'll change my mind regarding divorce in a year, or in 10 years, or in 40 years. Who knows. But for now, I am doing the best that I know how to do.

Thank you for your advice and for your concern. Though I may not always take your advice, I do appreciate it and I do consider it with great interest, so please, continue to share.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What I am reading is a man who loves his fiance and who is not that HD. You are maybe, I dunno, slightly less than "regular D" but not quite LD. (Obviously there is a wide range of difference even in one person's level of D, based on many things, but I'm thinking you are just at the top level of LD). You wish she wanted it a bit more, but you aren't going to leave and you know it. To me, there is nothing wrong with that. Honestly. Since you are likely at the high end of LD, you probably won't end up miserable forever, like a very HD person would be. So there is no reason to break up. No reason to keep bringing it up. I get ya.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Which by the way, kingsfan...I made a point sort of like this (in the above post) in the ladies lounge, called The Women of TAM. It might be a few pages in.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> What I am reading is a man who loves his fiance and who is not that HD. You are maybe, I dunno, slightly less than "regular D" but not quite LD. (Obviously there is a wide range of difference even in one person's level of D, based on many things, but I'm thinking you are just at the top level of LD). You wish she wanted it a bit more, but you aren't going to leave and you know it. To me, there is nothing wrong with that. Honestly. Since you are likely at the high end of LD, you probably won't end up miserable forever, like a very HD person would be. So there is no reason to break up. No reason to keep bringing it up. I get ya.


It's funny. It's only the last couple of months that'd I'd call myself LD. or maybe AD (average desire). Prior to that I'd have gladly taken it 4-5 times a week, though my minimum was 2x a week. I was constantly amped up, and could get going on a moments notice.

Not so now. I think it's a combination of stress in my life (work, kids and lack of money) and just getting to a '**** it' mentality regarding sex that I've almost driven myself LD.

I think eventually I'll care about it a lot more, but right now I just don't. I just seem to have checked out of my sex life.

We recently went 10 days without sex, and I tell you I'd have been vibrating after 3-4 days without. Now it's like 'whatever'. 

When your partner doesn't want it, after a while I guess you don't either. Just took me 20 years, a failed marriage and a new relationship to get there.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I hear ya. I'm finally slowing down, too. It is actually a relief to me in some ways, as when I was extremely HD and wasn't gettin' any, it made me want to FREAK OUT a lot, and I behaved in truly crazy ways.

Now that I'm more in that AD range (maybe still high for a woman, though), I feel so much more settled and happy in my life, and no freak outs if a little time passes between events.

One thing though that I would never, ever live without, is the amazing quality of sex I have with my H. He has pretty much spoiled me for life, so I'm glad he plans on keeping me, as I'm not sure I'd ever find that again. Good sex, sure, but probably not this.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't mean to say that the HD person should take what ever they get. i don't think there is any shared experience in life that is approached by two people with exactly the same level of enthusiasm at all times. I really can't see why sex is any different. I act the way I feel, I can't put on an act about something so emotionally charged. It takes a high level of trust and vulnerability for me.


Just as it takes a high level of trust and vulnerability for a man to entrust his entire sexual life to one woman indefinitely. 



> Should i behave as if I am in lust when I am not in order to please my partner?


Should a husband pretend he's not in lust when he is just to please his partner? 



> I suppose I could try if it was really important to him that I be someone I am not. It would eat away at my sense of being loved for me.


This is exactly what men feel when it's clear their wives are only having sex with him out of a sense of duty. Men and women both want to be loved and desired for who they are. I've had sex once in my life with my husband when it was clear he didn't want to be having sex with me. It was the single most depressing feeling I have ever had. The sex was empty. There was no emotion. With each kiss, each movement, I could physically feel the lack of enthusiasm. He might as well have said, "I wish I wasn't doing this" over and over. I felt that there must be something wrong with me...that I must have become totally undesirable over night. Now, it wasn't really that. He was just tired. But the experience sure left a negative mark.

I thank God it was only one time. I can not imagine the emotional and physical toll that would take on someone if they dealt with it each time they had sex with their spouse. 



> I would feel as if I were not enough. The way I feel is not important. I just have to pretend to be someone else to make him happy. I am certain I would withdraw if I was required to do that.


This works the same way with a husband who can tell that his wife doesn't want to have sex with him. After a while of having sex with someone who would rather be doing anything else, I would think you'd get to a place of, "Why the hell do I keep doing this?" But, of course, they keep doing it because they desire their wife...that intimacy that can not be replaced or duplicated. 



> I know this is not popular but I'll say what I feel anyway. I think porn gives an unrealistic portrayal of what women are like sexually. The women are all the same in porn, they are always theatrically turned on in the same way. All women are different, they have likes and dislikes, limitations, distinct personalities. Men lament the lack of enthusiasm on the part of their wives. I wonder if the enthusiasm is evident but not appreciated because it is not like a porn actress.


I think this _can_ be part of it. I don't agree with porn use myself and neither does my husband. But, to be perfectly honest, I think that there are far too many women in this world who simply don't understand male sexuality. They villainize it...they feel that they should be accepted and loved and cherished whether they want to have sex or not, but yet completely ignore the fact that to many men sex _is_ the ultimate expression of love. (And vice versa for the woman who are HD with LD husbands.) Could porn effect it? Sure. But I think most people can tell the difference between a woman who doesn't like sex and really, truly, isn't enthusiastic, and a woman who "orgasms" every three minutes. 



> Maybe there are unique sexual behaviors that are subtle but discernible. If her partner is conditioned by porn to expect a response that does not fit her unique personality then he will be disappointed. Maybe women who are sensitive to the lack of appreciation for who they are, withdraw.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't agree with this, I'm afraid. I've met too many women who only viewed sex as a "take it or leave it" aspect of marriage. Women who thought sex wasn't important, and moreover, _shouldn't_ be important if the couple truly loves each other. 

I say, if they truly love each other, they will desire each other sexually. Otherwise, they only have friendship, and marriage is meant to be much, much more.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

I so listen to all this and it just makes me wonder why on earth would another person in our life keep treating the situlation like this.Its over and over.I wish my Wife would just come out and say Hey, this is how I am and how its going to be for ever.I get so tired of the talks and the bitterness between us and only about this subject.Will it very be resolved. I think I could except it all if I knew that it is what it is.But because she never has given me a reason for it being this way I always feel it will change.Sex is always rationed out,Like you could wear it out.I mean really a women that makes love and leaves her top on.Then says hurry up.And I have to wait a week to do this again.No wonder I am always horny,Its like going to disneyland and getting to ride one ride and go home until next week.Why do we always feel there is hope there.And the thing that really PO's me is that there is nothing you can do to show them want it does to you.There's nothing you can remove from them to make them want to change.I like the saying don't reward them for bad behavior.But I am a nice guy and its hard to be a ass**** to her for very long.I am not like this at all but at times I wish there was some kind of punishment to her for being like this.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"I am not like this at all but at times I wish there was some kind of punishment to her for being like this."

Her punishment is the same as yours.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> "I am not like this at all but at times I wish there was some kind of punishment to her for being like this."
> 
> Her punishment is the same as yours.


Ya hey, I get it. wrong thing to say and feel I know.Just wish after all these yrs. we could get pass this whole thing.Really its been forever long. This war has been going on for 3 decades and I am a nice guy who just wants some loven on a regular basis.I want Receational Sex.I want to be able to count on it happening.And for her to give a sh8t about it.like it or not.There's is just no effort to make it better.And she does not care.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> PLEASE STOP. I'm hyperventilating in a public place and people are staring at me. : >
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not very nice...


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Not very nice...


I think Catherine meant that as a compliment to kingsfan's romantic post. Kings, I don't know how you stand it. Do you still intend to marry your fiancé? It is a terrible shame that she cannot make you feel loved in the way that you deserve.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

In my mind, hyperventilating occurs when someone laughs too hard, and I didn't find anything funny about kings post. I apologize if I misunderstood.


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## just_about_done (Feb 6, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> Should a husband pretend he's not in lust when he is just to please his partner?


I'm really starting to like you C2W. This made me realize it's not JUST the rejection. It's also that my wife (too often) acts like I'm wrong to want to have sex with her. 

I honestly think if I could pretend to not have a sex drive, my wife would be the happiest person on the planet.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "I am not like this at all but at times I wish there was some kind of punishment to her for being like this."
> 
> Her punishment is the same as yours.


That's like saying the warden and a prisoner are being punished the same because they are both in prison, yet one has the keys to release the other whenever they want, while the prisoner is completely dependent on the warden for everything.



lovesherman said:


> I think Catherine meant that as a compliment to kingsfan's romantic post. Kings, I don't know how you stand it. Do you still intend to marry your fiancé? It is a terrible shame that she cannot make you feel loved in the way that you deserve.


Yeah, still going to get married. Long story, I posted about it in another thread. Basically, we are married already, just not in the eyes of the law I guess. But we have the house, kids, etc. so it's basically like a marriage. We are even common-law now, so I believe even in the law we are the equivalent. 

Even if we didn't marry I can't see myself leaving her. I know it gets said around here a lot, but outside the bedroom we are truly great together 98% of the time. Very, very few problems, plenty of good times, and the only real stressors we have aside from sex is short-term issues like money, which will be going away in about a year when she's done doing some upgrading and gets a big raise that will nearly double her salary.

I'm not giving up what I have with her outside of the bedroom for a chance at an upgrade in it. Could that change? I guess, we never know what life brings, but I don't see it. For once I'm with someone I can see myself growing old with and actually being happy. I'll continue to work on upgrading things in the bedroom, and have made it well known that things can't fall way off or that will be grounds for me leaving -I was married to someone who used sex as currency once already, I am NOT doing that again.



Catherine602 said:


> It was a joke. Kingfan's description was so erotic it turned me on. Sorry it was not clear.
> 
> The guy aught to write romance novels, he is that good.


Maybe I should just submit my sexual desires to my fiancee in writing :smthumbup:


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

just_about_done said:


> I'm really starting to like you C2W. This made me realize it's not JUST the rejection. It's also that my wife (too often) acts like I'm wrong to want to have sex with her.
> 
> I honestly think if I could pretend to not have a sex drive, my wife would be the happiest person on the planet.


Exactly. I've said this many times here, because for some who aren't HD it can be difficult to understand why sex is so important, or specifically, why a wife giving her husband sex when she doesn't want it just isn't enough. LD people usually see that as a sign of love, but HD people say it's not enough. And the reason it really isn't enough is because, for HD people, it's not merely the act of sex they desire. It's the intimacy, the love, the closeness that comes with sex and can't be duplicated through any other action of intimacy...it's the desire to be desired. For a LD, I think, the act of sex is separated from intimacy so they assume that just giving up sex when they're not in the mood will be enough. But that kind of action, while definitely loving and selfless, doesn't reflect a burning desire to be with their spouse, and HD people _do_ sense that. 

So it isn't just the sex, or the rejection. It's the lack of feeling desired when you desire your spouse more than anything, and then wonder why they don't desire you in return.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Kingsfan said: "That's like saying the warden and a prisoner are being punished the same because they are both in prison, yet one has the keys to release the other whenever they want, while the prisoner is completely dependent on the warden for everything."

Don't miss my actual point, though. What he said was "I am not like this at all but at times I wish there was some kind of punishment to her for being like this."

It is completely absurd to wish there was some sort of punishment on his wife because she doesn't want to have sex with him.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Kingsfan said: "That's like saying the warden and a prisoner are being punished the same because they are both in prison, yet one has the keys to release the other whenever they want, while the prisoner is completely dependent on the warden for everything."
> 
> Don't miss my actual point, though. What he said was "I am not like this at all but at times I wish there was some kind of punishment to her for being like this."
> 
> *It is completely absurd to wish there was some sort of punishment on his wife because she doesn't want to have sex with him*.


With this, I agree. If you get to the point you actually want to punish someone, your resentment is to deep. Let her go.


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## H-J (Oct 3, 2013)

Convection said:


> Well, boiling down the common wisdom around here, I think you have a handful of choices, in what I would rate from least to most desirable outcome:
> 
> 1) Have affairs, with all the baggage and devastation that entails.
> 2) Say nothing and bottle it up. Let desire die and resentment build on both sides, leaving you ripe for #1 to happen, on your side or hers.
> ...


Hi

I came over to this thread because Dr Rockstar responded to a post I submitted to the Sex for Marriage site and I could pick up a lot of frustration in him when I wrote about my struggle to want to engage in sex(due to sexual childhood trauma) . 

I wanted to read more about his situation and also to see what other men feel. I'm glad I did, because it helps to highlight how serious and important sex is to so many men - in a very valid, profound way. I think that, thanks to society's jokes about men always thinking about sex, it's easy for the nicest of women to roll their eyes and minimise the importance of this aspect of life for men, and to believe it's nothing more than some selfish, shallow obsession.

Here is a view from a woman who really struggles with sex, through no fault of her own.

I totally agree with Convection's 5-point advice. But I think that if there is a natural, complete sexual incompatibility in a marriage and both parties are truly comfortable staying the way they are, the wisest step may be to call it a day, and to put "partner who wants outstanding sex too" at the very top of your checklist next time round. Not because you're shallow and selfish - but because this is an immensely sincere and absolutely valid need, and it's deeply important to you; and since men and women are (tragically) wired completely differently in this way, for many women it just simply isn't that important.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I often wonder, does my wife not want sex, or does she just not want sex with me? Hmmm.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Thound said:


> I often wonder, does my wife not want sex, or does she just not want sex with me? Hmmm.


I do not buy the conventional wisdom of "not with you" after a certain age. The issue is a self-fulfilling prophecy before that certain age, and if the LD partner desires sex with someone else they'll walk or have an affair, they won't roll down the shutters and close up shop.


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## H-J (Oct 3, 2013)

I'd like to pose a question for the men on this site who feel very unhappy about their wives' lack of interest in sex. (Please bear in mind that I understand your need is absolutely natural and hard-wired, and very, very important to you) - have you asked your wife whether something happened in her past that triggers her lack of interest? If she says yes and explains something about sexual abuse, would you (or have you already) commit to helping her as much as possible? Would you voluntarily, on your own steam, in your own time, Google the subject and read up on it as much as you can? Would you go to the book shop and buy books on the subject? Would you go into threads started by women who are desperately unhappy and frightened by sex, and try to learn as much as you can about how they feel?

I am not at all saying you wouldn't or haven't done this, but my sense, in reading this site, is that most of you are at a point where you're very, very angry and bitter, and see your only option to be complaining. I couldn't help wondering whether any of you had ever done anything on your own steam to learn more...? Would you be prepared to become an expert on the topic of childhood sexual abuse? Because 10 to 1, this is why your wife is so indifferent to sex...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Been there done that. Her response was and I quote "I don't have to, I'm the girl" unquote.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

H-J said:


> I'd like to pose a question for the men on this site who feel very unhappy about their wives' lack of interest in sex. (Please bear in mind that I understand your need is absolutely natural and hard-wired, and very, very important to you) - have you asked your wife whether something happened in her past that triggers her lack of interest? If she says yes and explains something about sexual abuse, would you (or have you already) commit to helping her as much as possible? Would you voluntarily, on your own steam, in your own time, Google the subject and read up on it as much as you can? Would you go to the book shop and buy books on the subject? Would you go into threads started by women who are desperately unhappy and frightened by sex, and try to learn as much as you can about how they feel?
> 
> I am not at all saying you wouldn't or haven't done this, but my sense, in reading this site, is that most of you are at a point where you're very, very angry and bitter, and see your only option to be complaining. I couldn't help wondering whether any of you had ever done anything on your own steam to learn more...? Would you be prepared to become an expert on the topic of childhood sexual abuse? Because 10 to 1, this is why your wife is so indifferent to sex...


For me, yes, I did this, as much as I could. Or let me say, as much as my fiancee wants.

She has difficulty dealing with the rape she endured, and while she does she a concillor/therapist, and has for many years, it's still an issue she has difficulty with sharing the emotional burnden of.

Not that I blame her.

I do try to be supportive as best I can, and I do think in general I am pretty good in that regard. But that 'support' can only be done to a point. At some point, your inate sexual needs do come up. You have to balance that support and your needs. I know my fiancee at times could go a long time without sex. Now if I wanted to be truly supportive, I'd accept that and go through months of no sex. However, that would leave me quite unhappy. 

So while I don't demand sex, I have made it clear that sex is a must in our relationship for me to be happy.

I'd walk to the end of the earth for my fiancee, or for any other women that was in my life if for some reason we ever seperated. But to me, that needs to be recipricated, and when you have two individuals at opposition ends of a spectrum -in this case sex- it's virtually impossible to be 100 per cent supportive both ways. Either one is fully supportive of the other -at the expense of their own happiness- or a balance is achieved that makes both happy, or at least reasonably happy.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> Been there done that. Her response was and I quote "I don't have to, I'm the girl" unquote.


My first wife did that sort of. If i wanted to discuss sex it was about 30 seconds of discussion - mostly her stating she didn't want sex 'because'- and thena fter that she'd tell me to 'go find someone else then because I'm not having more sex.'

So in the end, I did go find someone else.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

H-J said:


> ... have you asked your wife whether something happened in her past that triggers her lack of interest?


I did that. Most of the men who report being in low frequency marriages on this site have also done it.



> If she says yes and explains something about sexual abuse, would you (or have you already) commit to helping her as much as possible? Would you voluntarily, on your own steam, in your own time, Google the subject and read up on it as much as you can? Would you go to the book shop and buy books on the subject? Would you go into threads started by women who are desperately unhappy and frightened by sex, and try to learn as much as you can about how they feel?


I would probably do a good deal of it, yes. However, as kinsfan wrote, we must recognize that we can't solve our spouses' problems for them. We have to support them in their work to help themselves.



> I am not at all saying you wouldn't or haven't done this, but my sense, in reading this site, is that most of you are at a point where you're very, very angry and bitter, and see your only option to be complaining. I couldn't help wondering whether any of you had ever done anything on your own steam to learn more...? Would you be prepared to become an expert on the topic of childhood sexual abuse? Because 10 to 1, this is why your wife is so indifferent to sex...


You haven't spent much time on this site, so I'll break down the typical sexless marriage thread. Usually, the husband is the HD spouse who posts that his wife always refuses sex. The reasons the wife gives for withholding sex is that she is stressed and/or busy. The husband then ramps up his help around the house until he is doing most, or all, of the housework. And that doesn't help the issue of frequency.

Of course, none of the typical thread involves past abuse. Your experience is through abuse. That is your filter. The old saying is that, when you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I think you perceive that abuse is far more prevalent an issue in marriage than it really is.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Not a difficult answer in my case. Between her upbringing in a Central Asia semi theocracy, BPD, and high stakes consulting work it is a miracle she still has functioning body parts...


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Of course, none of the typical thread involves past abuse. Your experience is through abuse. That is your filter. The old saying is that, when you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I think you perceive that abuse is far more prevalent an issue in marriage than it really is.


:iagree:


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> For me, yes, I did this, as much as I could. Or let me say, as much as my fiancee wants.
> 
> She has difficulty dealing with the rape she endured, and while she does she a concillor/therapist, and has for many years, it's still an issue she has difficulty with sharing the emotional burnden of.
> 
> ...


Kingsfan, nice to see you here !
My heart goes out to both your fiance and you.
An SA 'victim' can spend their whole lives trying to get over it. Get a different counsellor. Been there, done that. It's not that there is this emotional burden ..... it makes me angry to read that. 
Nope. It is more that one just ACCEPTS it's part of who they are. So what. Everyone is unique. Take it out of the closet, spread some daylight on it, and put it where it belongs. The puzzle piece that makes one whole. Tucking it away in your pocket out of shame. I get riled hearing counsellors still do this. Sigh. Hugs to you both.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

deejov said:


> Kingsfan, nice to see you here !
> My heart goes out to both your fiance and you.
> An SA 'victim' can spend their whole lives trying to get over it. Get a different counsellor. Been there, done that. It's not that there is this emotional burden ..... it makes me angry to read that.
> Nope. It is more that one just ACCEPTS it's part of who they are. So what. Everyone is unique. Take it out of the closet, spread some daylight on it, and put it where it belongs. The puzzle piece that makes one whole. Tucking it away in your pocket out of shame. I get riled hearing counsellors still do this. Sigh. Hugs to you both.


Hey deejov, nice to see you too!

Regarding teh counsellor, she's seen them off and on for the 26 years it has been since the SA occurred, and several different ones in different provinces as well. 

I think she's just reached a point in life where she's comfortable with how she's dealing with that past trauma and isn't inclined to face the emotional awkwardness she'd experience if she were to delve into again. But to overcome her wounds that inhibit our sex life, she'll have to do just that.

The ball is in her court, she just has no desire to get it. I don't blame her, I can only imagine how hard it is to actually face that sort of past trauma, especially after reaching a point in life where you feel like you can handle it in your own way. But if we are to ever see a permamently strong sex life, she will have to do that I feel. I don't expect to ever see it though.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Kingsfan, hear you on that. I handled it just fine myself. If you don't even know what "happy" truly feels like, the carrot doesn't exist \ no motivation to shoot for more.
You are in the position of saying just what I said.... coming from you it means more than from a counsellor anyways.

Another theory regarding sex... as long as your partner is hiding part of themselves from you, your emotional bond is superficial. Sex is often the doorway to truly deep emotional connection. If you are hiding part of your core being... it is very difficult to engage in bonding sex and still keep your "secrets" intact.

It's a deeply rooted lack of acceptance. If your partner really knew how you felt about yourself, they would not love you, want you.
Your partner is the LAST person you want to find out that you are damaged, cray cray, used and destroyed, and not worthy of genuine love.

It's a HUGE internal lie. But it's real to the person living it. 
Unless their partner or someone else significant, has the guts to challenge it and replace those lies with the truth.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

How would you challenge it?


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## real deep love (Feb 8, 2013)

That's infidelity knocking at the door of your marriage. Getting "Mr. Divorce" exited!. you just have to talk with her. find a way to make her understand what she is making you go through and may be the consequences of it. improving sexual communication between you and your wife is the best solution. Good luck:smthumbup:


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

H-J said:


> I'd like to pose a question for the men on this site who feel very unhappy about their wives' lack of interest in sex. (Please bear in mind that I understand your need is absolutely natural and hard-wired, and very, very important to you) - have you asked your wife whether something happened in her past that triggers her lack of interest? If she says yes and explains something about sexual abuse, would you (or have you already) commit to helping her as much as possible? Would you voluntarily, on your own steam, in your own time, Google the subject and read up on it as much as you can? Would you go to the book shop and buy books on the subject? Would you go into threads started by women who are desperately unhappy and frightened by sex, and try to learn as much as you can about how they feel?
> 
> I am not at all saying you wouldn't or haven't done this, but my sense, in reading this site, is that most of you are at a point where you're very, very angry and bitter, and see your only option to be complaining. I couldn't help wondering whether any of you had ever done anything on your own steam to learn more...? Would you be prepared to become an expert on the topic of childhood sexual abuse? Because 10 to 1, this is why your wife is so indifferent to sex...


I would absolutely put the effort into it. She is the most important person on the planet to me, why wouldn't I put the effort in. That is the exact same attitude I expect from her as well. 

As it is my wife has several medical conditions that I have done all of the research on, she has done none of it. She completely relies on me to remember what medicine she needs to take. I go to all of her doctors appontments with her to make sure I stay up to date with what is going on with her. Not at one single appointment has she ever asked the doctor for help on her lack of interest in our sex life/ marriage (they are tied together to me).

I do this because as I told her when I asked her to marry me. "I want to make your life better". I have done so, many times over.

She is in my opinion, one of the women who do not see the connection between love and sex for most men in committed relationships. She has said that men only want sex. She often tells or daughters that men will do or say anything to get in their pants. She never follows up about what it should be like when they do find the right guy. I will make sure I fix that when the time is right.


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