# Need some input on coparenting



## wtf2012 (Oct 22, 2012)

So I am not sure I feel about this situation, so I was hoping to get some outside perspective.

My two sons (6 & 7) have both been involved in a outside seasonal (fall and spring) sport for about 2 ~ 3 years. This sport is one I played extensively growing up, so I coach their team(s). This has provided a special bonding experience for me and them. It is currently sign up time, and my youngest isnt sure he wants to play, but my oldest is sure that he wants to play.

My STBXW however is adamant she doesn't want them to play this time, mainly because it is an inconvenience for her Saturdays. I have to admit she has a point that the sporting seasons overlap with the best time to be alive and outside where we live. The time commitment is one night midweek for an hour and one hour on Saturdays sometime between 830 and 330 for about 2 months. 

I am having a hard time deciding whether I should choose this battle or not. I tend to go with what the kids want to do, but I want to make sure my ego isnt getting in the way. Basically I want this to be about the kids and not me. Opinions are appreciated.


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## GettingBetter (Mar 7, 2013)

I think you answered your own question. It's about the kids and what's best for them.
I was in the same situation last two uears. My boys, about the same age as yours, wanted to play T ball and basketball. I helped coach them four times a week. We both had a blast.
XW never showed up for any of their games or practices. Even when my older one made it to the finals.
I havent had a single Saturday off for the last two summers and I do not regret it.
Kids need it...keep doing what is best for them and forget about X.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Can you and the ex switch off Saturdays and practice days so that neither one of you is stuck with the entire burden? If not, you have no business obligating her time.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Explain your current custody arrangement.

If you weren't the coach, do you think she would have such an objection?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

The one who wants to, should. What would happen if his missed those Saturdays she has him? You don't say if that is when a game is or a practice. Would your son eventually say he didn't want to miss the Saturday activity? Does she have other things planned to do since it's nice outside or is she just opposed to the extra time with you? Who has primary legal custody? Does one have final right of refusal for signing kids up for lessons, etc.


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## wtf2012 (Oct 22, 2012)

Some more info:

No current custody schedule. We have a tentative agreement of me 6/14 with alternating weekends. 

Saturdays are games. I can make the practice night on one of my nights. 

She doesn't want him to play mainly because she is selfish. She didn't like always having something planned on Saturdays. If the weather is bad she doesn't wont to go, if the weather is good she would rather do something else. She is not okay with just letting me have him for an hour to take him by myself on her Saturdays because that would make her look like a bad parent and she would still have to plan her Saturdays around his soccer games. In my mind this is what good parents do. 

This kinda goes back to one of the things I hated about our relationship in that she could never commit to any plans due to her fear of missing a better opportunity or her fear that she wouldn't feel good. She battle(d) a chronic psychosomatic disease for a couple years. 

I understand it is kind of drag if it is not your idea of fun, but I think parents are supposed to suck it up sometimes to provide opportunities for their kids.

I ended up talking to the older one again to gauge his interest more. He is definitely interested in playing, said he wanted to play even if I didn't coach (as long as my asst does). I told him that Mommy thought he didn't want to play the last time they talked about it. He said he changed his mind since then, and I let him know that he needs to tell his mother that. Trying to encourage him to a have a voice but don't want to put him in the middle.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

wtf2012 said:


> Some more info:
> 
> No current custody schedule. We have a tentative agreement of me 6/14 with alternating weekends.
> 
> ...


Hm. I agree that is what parents do. Ex stops by her practice often and he comes to all of the meets and takes her to meets (even out of town) the weekends she is with him and of course I go. Sure, it can be inconvenient but I also enjoy watching her do her thing.

Can you come up with a creative trade off? Like... for those two months you keep them all day on Saturday, every Saturday for those two months vs. all weekend every other weekend for those two months? Then it doesn't cut into her day - she can plan stuff. And you get the same # of days... just an idea on a compromise that might appeal to her.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

wtf2012, this is a tough one. On one hand if you're willing to do all of the work to get him to and from practice then she her preference sounds self centered. One the other hand, I think it's terrible for kids to always get what they want.

I like the way you're thinking about it. You're trying to be objective and you have the right end goal. I think your kids are lucky.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If it was me, I would tell her that the kid wants to play and if it means that it upsets your day because she has to show up and take an hour or two away from her thing, then tell her you'll keep the kid with you and she can call you when she gets home and you'll bring him home. 

The purpose is for the kid to have an activity that he can enjoy and parents that support it.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

6301 said:


> If it was me, I would tell her that the kid wants to play and if it means that it upsets your day because she has to show up and take an hour or two away from her thing, then tell her you'll keep the kid with you and she can call you when she gets home and you'll bring him home.
> 
> The purpose is for the kid to have an activity that he can enjoy and parents that support it.


IMO this is the adversarial trap. The actual purpose is to raise healthy, happy, capable, productive, well adjusted adults. Maybe you're correct in what he should do. But it's too easy to lose focus of the real goal when flexing parental muscles against the other parent. It's not about her and wtf2012's parenting partnership or power plays. By the way I'm not assuming you think otherwise 6301. Just pointing out my thoughts on the phrasing.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Your child is already in the middle. When he speaks with Mom (who doesn't want him to play) he says he doesn't want to play. When he speaks with you (who does want him to play) he says he changed his mind. This kids wants to make both parents happy and its going to backfire on both of you. Stop telling him to talk to mom, this is something you two need to figure out. And I assure you, you will get nowhere telling mom she's not acting the way a "good parent" ought to, regardless of whether you are correct.


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## wtf2012 (Oct 22, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Your child is already in the middle. When he speaks with Mom (who doesn't want him to play) he says he doesn't want to play. When he speaks with you (who does want him to play) he says he changed his mind. This kids wants to make both parents happy and its going to backfire on both of you. Stop telling him to talk to mom, this is something you two need to figure out. And I assure you, you will get nowhere telling mom she's not acting the way a "good parent" ought to, regardless of whether you are correct.


I see your point, and it is one of the things I am very afraid of putting him in the middle. 

However, inevitably I think with parents who do not live together, the kids will have to be in the middle to some degree. He will have a relationship with her and he will have a relationship with me. This experience has shown me that while most people "want to put the kids first" and "keep the kids out of the middle" there are lots of people who are just way too selfish to be able to pull it off.

If my ex could compromise and work with me in good faith, it would be better for my kids. Unfortunately, I cannot control her, nor do I want to. I just want her to grow up. However, I can do my best to minimize how much the kids are in the middle. 

I know as we get to a new normal, I will be more comfortable and decisive to be a better advocate for my children. Right now I am still trying to get my bearings. 

But I think you are right about him wanting to please both of us. Any tips on how to parent a child who is a people pleaser? I really don't want him to feel pressured to make it better.


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## wtf2012 (Oct 22, 2012)

2galsmom said:


> Why did you say that? Do you want her speaking for you and summarizing your thoughts? Wouldn't you consider it manipulation if the shoe was on the other foot?
> 
> Why couldn't you just have said, "Son, always speak up and speak honestly and never be afraid to tell the truth. Do not answer to please people if it goes against your true feelings. Do you want to continue with the sport you in? This is not about me or your mother, what do you want? To win and be a champion you are the one who has to commit mentally and physically. Do not be afraid of me or your mother and tell us both what you want and get used to doing that the rest of your life."
> 
> ...


I don't think I was being manipulative at all. They had a conversation about his sport that I was not privy to. I had a few conversations about this sport with him without my ex around. Then my ex and I had a conversation where we had heard two entirely different things about his desires. We both got two different stories from him. 

So I had a conversation with him asking if he really wanted to play, because his mother had told me that he told her he didn't want to play. I was very careful to try and gauge his interest without putting my desires into the discussion. 

In the end I left it with him. I told him that if he wanted to play, he needed to talk to his mother to let her know that he changed his mind and he does want to play.

I also left it with my ex telling her that he told me he wanted to play. I requested that she have another conversation with him. 

I did want I think I could to encourage him to have a voice with her and me, because ultimately the kids are my priority.

Now what I think will happen is that he will forget to have a conversation with her, because he is very forgetful. She will not have a conversation with him, because she feels like she knows her kids way better than me, and WTH should she listen to me, and she is her own priority. We will miss registration and they won't play. Maybe he is upset, maybe not. In 20 years he will ask me why he quit playing.

I did what I thought was appropriate, and I now I am letting go of it.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Good idea letting go. Bottom line, if she doesn't want to give up her time with them to participate, you can't make her. As they grow older they may resent it OR they may appreciate the other things they do as a family on those days.


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## TooNice (Nov 26, 2013)

I think you had a very healthy approach. You are willing to be involved in this activity, and made it clear to her and to them that you would be supportive and there. I don't think it was wrong to say that you were led to believe that your older son didn't want to play. If you said what you stated in a conversational tone, it would be no different than if you were talking about a conversation you had with his mom if you were still married. It showed him that you were communicating. 

Your kids are lucky to have you looking out for them and being such an active part of their lives.


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## wtf2012 (Oct 22, 2012)

Need some more perspective.

Divorce will be final soon. Coparenting time is agreed, and it is not a standard 50/50 or every other disney dad weekend..more like something in between with her more time. I felt that kids going for more than 5 days without the other parent was not in their best interest at this stage in their life.

But...STBXW is not the easiest to coparent with. It seems lately she has been trying to intentionally sabotage any plans I make. I am not sure it is intentional but it sure feels that way. I think she is taking out some pent up resentment (possibly subconscious) about her role in the relationship in the past (SAHM, not financially independent, not financially savvy) and her prospects for the future (two "underwater basket weaving" type degrees with little hope of gainful employment). Whereas I am kicking ass and taking names in my career and growing incredibly fast in my parenting abilities.

So for the question: 

Since I know a 50/50 week on week off pick the kids up at school and never see her is preferable for my sanity and boundaries, in general if this isn't the best option for kids or a possibility for whatever reason,why kind of tactics have you found to work for a coparent who is routinely late for pickups, no shows on their nights due to work coming up or just likes to make you wait?

More specifically, I have the option to enroll the kids in extra summer camp weeks to put more of the burden of being a grown up parent on her, but I don't want to because I want that time with my kids. Keeping them extra (which is completely kosher by the parenting agreement) necessitates meeting her in person and depending on her to meet when she says she will. Not only do I want the time with my kids, but it will also save me some money (a not insignificant amount). 

Your shared experiences are greatly appreciated.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

It sounds as if you are setting up custody arrangements that will provoke and foster confrontation with your ex, and you know it, but you are going to do it anyway. 
Do what's best for the kids, but bite your tongue during drop offs. Chastising her in front of the kids is demeaning and they will see it. Is there a financial penalty in the custody agreement for tardiness, sometimes that helps.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I don't know if this will help or not but this is the approach I used early on that turned our co-parenting issues around. So take from it what you will.

My x left me for another guy who quickly dumped her after. So needless to say we did not get along. Custody exchanges were done outside, I wouldn't look or speak to her and she did the same back. At every opportunity she tried to undermind my parenting. This came from the fact that she knew I filed for full custody but in Colorado you will only get joint. I wanted to work toward a better parenting arrangement but she was still angry and fought me on every turn. We could agree on nothing.

So finally one day I told my girls to go inside the house and pulled her aside. I told her that she has known me for a long time, since we were 14 years old. I told her I loved my daughters more than I hated her and what she did. I told her that it was in their best interest to work together and make them our priority. I told her the alternative would be we could fight forever which you know I would do till the day I die for my kiddos. She knew I was right but said nothing and left. Week later when she showed up again to drop off I smiled, looked at her, invited her in the house for the exchange.

Fast forward 3 years later and we go to our kids events and sit together, talk and occasionally laugh. We talk about all things related to our kids and make decisions together. Of all my divorced friends I can honestly say I have the best relationship with my x of any of them. Don't get me wrong. I still think she is a horrible person...but I love my kids more than I hate her so I am pleasant and work with her. Hope some of this helps


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Choose the summer activity that benefits the kids, not your schedule or her parenting. 

Choose your battles - you can't control her tardiness more than by asking her to be prompt as it's only polite and considerate but do not mention that in front of the kids. 

And lastly, teach the kids by example that punctuality is important for a number of reasons. So when they are with YOU, emphasize your values - as they get old they may just prod Mom to hurry up so they can stick to the exchange time.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

:iagree:
Punctuality is one of my pet peeves and it is definitely something I have consistently taught my kids. Now that they are teens they practice it as well, and notice when others do not. It is a sign of respect and they appreciate that completely.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

A few times I complained after I picked up kiddo, once because we had plans to go straight to a friend's house for dinner and I didn't like being late and I had told them 6:15pm as our meeting time was 6:00pm. She got quiet and I felt awful because I realized that she felt it was directed to HER but she could not control when her Dad got her there. I apologized and told her it wasn't her fault and that I would talk to her Dad. I did ask him on a number of occasions to be on time, then he started using his elderly mother as an excuse saying she "needed something" before they left. Well how about ask her 30 minutes BEFORE leaving instead of on the way out the door?

Regardless, I had to let it go. I never mentioned it to her again except to make a point when WE went somewhere to comment on being on time and emphasize that we don't want to be late, it's rude, etc. Now that a year or two has passed, ex is becoming more punctual and I suspect kiddo has her stuff ready and loaded and is now asking Dad "are you ready?"


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