# Domestic abuse - why?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Why do people tolerate it?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Many abusive men isolate their partner. The woman is cut off from friends and family. She’s made to feel guilty for the abuse. She’s scared of being stalked or retribution. Some have no financial means. Put up with it isn’t what they are doing. They’re trying to survive.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Must admit I always find it hard to understand why anyone would stay with a person who is violent for example. Especially when there are children. 
There are plenty to places to go to for help now. 
If a guy hit me once it would be over.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Me too. But I have friends and family near by. A lot of abused women don’t.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

snowbum said:


> Me too. But I have friends and family near by. A lot of abused women don’t.


There are many places women can go to for help. I had no close family nearby when my own marriage ended. Just three teens to care for.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> Must admit I always find it hard to understand why anyone would stay with a person who is violent for example. Especially when there are children.
> There are plenty to places to go to for help now.
> If a guy hit me once it would be over.





snowbum said:


> Me too. But I have friends and family near by. A lot of abused women don’t.





Diana7 said:


> There are many places women can go to for help. I had no close family nearby when my own marriage ended. Just three teens to care for.


Are the resources available in modern countries not good enough?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> Why do people tolerate it?


In some cases, the victim has grown up in a family where abuse was normal, so it seems normal to them.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Laurentium said:


> In some cases, the victim has grown up in a family where abuse was normal, so it seems normal to them.


Yet we are living in the information age no?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> Yet we are living in the information age no?


I'm not sure what you mean.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Laurentium said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.


Even though domestic abuse may seem normal based on what they have seen from their family, we are living in a time where public education, information networks, general consensus and social media all agree that domestic violence is not acceptable.

So like others, I find it very hard to understand.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Generational abuse in this country is very difficult to overcome. People who have grown up with it don’t consider it unusual and they don’t have support to leave when it’s common in their families of origin so many of them just stay. Even if they do manage to leave they are often pulled back in with promises of change that usually don’t last. They always hope things will get better or they just give up and accept that’s how life is. That’s what their children see and so it continues on and on until one of them breaks the chain and gets out. It’s easy to say people should leave — especially easy for people like me who have never experienced it — and a few are strong enough to do that but not most. People die from domestic violence in this country every day. And, sadly, that is likely to continue for a long time.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

It’s not like an abuser just one day, suddenly out of the blue starts hitting you. It starts with “negging,” backhanded compliments to make you self conscious. It happens gradually over time and by the time the violence starts you’re emotionally and mentally broken down to the point where you blame yourself because you’re convinced everything is your fault. When all the marriage problems are on the shoulders of one person and the other is always blameless and superior, abuse is inevitable. It’s why I warn young women away from men who don’t want them to work at all, not just when the kids are little, or men who say things like “you’re my wife, above everything.” No one wants absolute and unaccountable control over another adult for altruistic reasons. When you lose the ability to take care of yourself on your own, you lose the right to have any say in how you’re treated.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It could be one of those things that you can only understand if you are from that side of the fence.

Curious about financial dependence as a reason for tolerance. In my country we have immediate financial support packages for victims. Trying to understand this reason.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> It could be one of those things that you can only understand if you are from that side of the fence.
> 
> Curious about financial dependence as a reason for tolerance. In my country we have immediate financial support packages for victims. Trying to understand this reason.


Again, it’s psychological. They are made to believe they can’t earn money on their own. They’re too stupid, they’re too slow, no one would hire them, by the time the hitting starts they believe that they are unlovable and blessed their abuser will tolerate them. Here in the US there are tons of resources to help battered women, but they’re so cowed and afraid they will just tolerate it because they honestly don’t believe they can escape.


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

Our vantage point is far different that yours. You don’t know one’s inner life, the reasons they stay or why they are afraid to leave.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

And a restraining order never stopped a woman from being killed or raped.

Most woman who are murdered it’s by a ‘loved one’ and a man.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Again, it’s psychological. They are made to believe they can’t earn money on their own. They’re too stupid, they’re too slow, no one would hire them, by the time the hitting starts they believe that they are unlovable and blessed their abuser will tolerate them. Here in the US there are tons of resources to help battered women, but they’re so cowed and afraid they will just tolerate it because they honestly don’t believe they can escape.


How about those who could earn money on their own and/or at least have?

What I also want to know is why they would go back - to the abuser. 
Someone who may punch and kick them while they are crying curled up like a child protecting themselves.



EB123 said:


> Our vantage point is far different that yours. You don’t know one’s inner life, the reasons they stay or why they are afraid to leave.


Yes, help us understand.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> It could be one of those things that you can only understand if you are from that side of the fence.
> 
> Curious about financial dependence as a reason for tolerance. In my country we have immediate financial support packages for victims. Trying to understand this reason.


They don't just hand those resources out, you have to show that you need them. Sometimes that can seem impossibly daunting to someone who is simply trying not to be noticed in order to survive.

And it's not like most serious abuse goes on every single day....there are times that you are able to avoid it or stop it, and those times give you hope that everything is getting better.

Plus, most abusers gaslight everything to their victims, so you can feel like YOU are the one with the problem, and if YOU could just be better/do the "right" things, then abuse wouldn't happen to you. And you can feel like everyone else would agree with your abuser.

You are also misunderstanding the level of SHAME you feel for causing the abuse, or putting up with the abuse...that can be exhausting and our human minds will create almost any other story to relieve ourselves of feeling ashamed.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> They don't just hand those resources out, you have to show that you need them. Sometimes that can seem impossibly daunting to someone who is simply trying not to be noticed in order to survive.
> 
> And it's not like most serious abuse goes on every single day....there are times that you are able to avoid it or stop it, and those times give you hope that everything is getting better.
> 
> ...


How about those who seek help, get help, and after help is provided, they go straight back to their partner. It's important that they all get help, just feels like a massive waste of effort in some cases.

Also, I can learn to sympathise, but I am struggling to respect some of the victims.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> How about those who seek help, get help, and after help is provided, they go straight back to their partner. It's important that they all get help, just feels like a massive waste of effort in some cases.
> 
> Also, I can learn to sympathise, but I am struggling to respect some of the victims.


That was never MY situation with my first husband, so I could only guess at why. Plus I've never known any instance where someone goes through the difficult work of getting charitable help to break away, and then goes back to their abuser. I've seen people call the police, have them arrested, and then bail them out and go back...and yes, that's very hard to watch...but to even take the position that people are supposed to make choices that I "respect" sounds like MY view is superior, and that just is not true for me. 

My choices, my relationships, my LIFE are SO very personal to me and my individual situation that it's simply impossible for anyone else to be expected to understand or "respect" everything I've done in order to do what's right FOR ME. 

So maybe what you are really struggling with is allowing people who you cannot understand the SPACE to live their lives the way that is best for them, in a way that is not right for you. 

You should try to UNDERSTAND them more than "respect" them.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> How about those who could earn money on their own and/or at least have?
> 
> What I also want to know is why they would go back - to the abuser.
> Someone who may punch and kick them while they are crying curled up like a child protecting themselves.


Because they don’t believe they can survive on their own. Any accomplishments they have belong to their husband. Their minds are under the abusers control. They believe they deserve the abuse.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

You have to look at it as a much more broad picture if you are trying to really wrap your head around why someone would stay in a situation, or even go back to it once they got out.

There are some people that can drink in a healthy and responsible way. There are some people that are complete alcoholics. There are some that are alcoholics and fought against that unhealthy behavior and won their battle. And there are some that fought, won, but slipped after years of sobriety and went right back to where they were. And there are some that never tried for sobriety at all and die through alcohol killing their body slowly. 

You could say the above about any bad habit or unhealthy situation, overeating, being a diabetic and doing something about it, smoking, overspending money and getting yourself into debt, and domestic abuse situations. 

In any of those situations, there are a great many resources for the people that want to get out of a bad lifestyle and make permanent change. The only way those resources get used, is if the person can make that ultimate decision to change it.

The thing is, there are a great many personalities in the world, and a vast difference in the levels of coping skills that a person learned as a child that then carried over in their adult lives. 

Some personalities become natural bullies; their lack of ego, their insecurities. their hangups become the fire that creates an abuser. Some personalities become natural victims; their lack of ego, their insecurities, their hangups become the fire that creates a victim. 

In most cases, it boils down to genetics, which I feel plays a huge part with innate personality traits, and then environmental effects which play a large role in the teaching of coping skills and development of an awareness of your surroundings.

It is very hard to watch someone struggle through these problems. As someone with close ties to family members, and friends and through community work with domestic abuse victims, I have asked the same questions as you over the years. Why do they go back, why do they stay. It's hard to watch. And then years later, when I learned that my own relationship was not as healthy as I had thought, I had to ask the same of my own self. It's not as easy as you think when you are on the outside looking in, or on the Inside Looking Out.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Inside_Looking_Out said:


> You have to look at it as a much more broad picture if you are trying to really wrap your head around why someone would stay in a situation, or even go back to it once they got out.
> 
> There are some people that can drink in a healthy and responsible way. There are some people that are complete alcoholics. There are some that are alcoholics and fought against that unhealthy behavior and won their battle. And there are some that fought, won, but slipped after years of sobriety and went right back to where they were. And there are some that never tried for sobriety at all and die through alcohol killing their body slowly.
> 
> ...


Aye, I used to smoke and was an alcoholic in my younger years. You need to want to help yourself or no one can help you.

It's the wanting to help themselves part I guess I don't get, smoking/alcoholism there is pleasure in the addiction, but putting up with violence when you get home?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> That was never MY situation with my first husband, so I could only guess at why. Plus I've never known any instance where someone goes through the difficult work of getting charitable help to break away, and then goes back to their abuser. I've seen people call the police, have them arrested, and then bail them out and go back...and yes, that's very hard to watch...but to even take the position that people are supposed to make choices that I "respect" sounds like MY view is superior, and that just is not true for me.
> 
> My choices, my relationships, my LIFE are SO very personal to me and my individual situation that it's simply impossible for anyone else to be expected to understand or "respect" everything I've done in order to do what's right FOR ME.
> 
> ...


I guess for random strangers I stopped caring. I acknowledged it's difficult to understand, but past experiences helping have resulted in it's 'not my business unless you want to make it my business' kinda thing. 

I shouldn't have brought up "respect" in this, it's irrelevant and unimportant in most cases. Only relevant in the case of a spouse/potential spouse I guess.


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

Leaving an abusive relationship isn’t as easy as most people may believe.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Are the resources available in modern countries not good enough?


There seems to be a lot of support services.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EB123 said:


> Leaving an abusive relationship isn’t as easy as most people may believe.


It can be. It just takes determination and a strong desire to protect your children.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Because they don’t believe they can survive on their own. Any accomplishments they have belong to their husband. Their minds are under the abusers control. They believe they deserve the abuse.


I can only pity and nothing else.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> I can only pity and nothing else.


Yeah it’s a bad situation. We need a society that doesn’t accept people being treated that way. Beating your wife or children should be shameful.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah it’s a bad situation. We need a society that doesn’t accept people being treated that way. *Beating your wife or children should be shameful.*


It should be punished.


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

Be married to a highly ranked law enforcement officer- in a small town- and ask yourself why people tolerate it. You guys make leaving sound so easy- Ha! Everyone’s situation is different. There is no one size fits all. If you don’t understand and as you stated stopped caring for random strangers, don’t post this on here and victim blame the ones that don’t feel safe enough or have enough resources to leave their abusers.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Why do people tolerate it?


I read a study about this that looked at oxytocin levels in abuse victims. Oxytocin is the hormone that bonds people. It's also often called the amnesia hormone. 

For example, when a woman gives birth, her brain is flooded with oxytocin. The works to bond her to her new baby. It also helps her deal with the awful pain of birth. The oxytocin numbs her memory of the pain. It's often said that were it no for oxytocin, no woman would ever have a second child.

The more good interactions a couple has with each other, the more love making they do, the more oxytocin is flooding their brains and gives them that 'in love' feeling. This also leads some couples who is in love to seemingly being blind to what assholes the other really is. The oxytocin helps them emphasize the good and forget/gloss over the bad.

In a family setting, the more family members treat each other well, again the more oxytocin they all produce and the more bonded the family members feel.

So, what does all that have to do with abuse? Remember that oxytocin floods a woman's brain when she's in pain from childbirth. It's a protection mechanism that the body uses. When there is abuse, oxytocin does the same in response... it floods the brain to help self-protect the person. But this also serves to bond them to their abuser. And the amnesia side effects of oxytocin help the abused person gloss over the pain of the abuse. 

A child growing up in an abusive home develop over reactive oxytocin production. Their body is on high alert to help them deal with the abuse... to minimize the abuse for survival purposes. People who grow up like this end up with over responsive oxytocin production system.

Then that child grows up and gets into a relationship. Over time their partner/spouse slowly becomes more and more abusive. All the while, their oxytocin levels are kept high in response. They are high on oxytocin. It's confusing to them because on the on hand they know something very bad is going on. On the other hand, they are so high on oxytocin that they cannot really feel the emotional pain caused by the abuse.

Studies have been done taking oxytocin level readings on people. What they found in that kids who grow up in abusive homes over produce oxytocin. And anytime something bad happens, their oxytocin levels skyrocket. It's a hyper reaction to the stress of being abused. And it traps the victim and strongly bonds them to their abuser.

Have you ever talked to a victim of abuse who on the one hand can tell you pretty clearly that abuse that is going on; and on the other hand, their eyes seem glossed over as they talk about their love for thier abuser? That's oxytocin talking.

This is why the best solution to end the cycle of violence is to remove the victim from the abusive situation and keep them apart from the abuser for some period of time. Once the oxytocin response cycle to their abuser is broken, they can "see the forest for the trees". At that point they don't remember the 'love" and only remember the pain of the abuse. They cycle is broken.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

How they were raised. 
Child growing up with emotional/physical abuse by those who “love” them will look for same when they mature. 
lt’s what they associate as love.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anastasia6 said:


> And a restraining order never stopped a woman from being killed or raped.
> 
> Most woman who are murdered it’s by a ‘loved one’ and a man.


Yep, like that one young lady who was shot in the head point blank by her ex while she was out walking with her young baby.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EB123 said:


> Be married to a highly ranked law enforcement officer- in a small town- and ask yourself why people tolerate it. You guys make leaving sound so easy- Ha! Everyone’s situation is different. There is no one size fits all. If you don’t understand and as you stated stopped caring for random strangers, don’t post this on here and victim blame the ones that don’t feel safe enough or have enough resources to leave their abusers.


I was in an abusive relationship with a man who was "highly respected" in the community. What I learned is that there are things that I could.

I'm assuming you are talking about yourself here. What are the things you have down to try to get out of this situation?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah it’s a bad situation. We need a society that doesn’t accept people being treated that way. Beating your wife or children should be shameful.


It is.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EB123 said:


> Be married to a highly ranked law enforcement officer- in a small town- and ask yourself why people tolerate it. You guys make leaving sound so easy- Ha! Everyone’s situation is different. There is no one size fits all. If you don’t understand and as you stated stopped caring for random strangers, *don’t post this on here and victim blame the ones that don’t feel safe enough or have enough resources to leave their abusers.*


All the more reason to post this so myself and others can find understanding.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> It should be punished.


It is. If the one being abused will press charges.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> It is. If the one being abused will press charges.


Sometimes it's prosecuted. Others not. It's actually not all that easy because often there is not much evidence. Abuse is paid more attention to now, but it's still hard to prove.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> I read a study about this that looked at oxytocin levels in abuse victims. Oxytocin is the hormone that bonds people. It's also often called the amnesia hormone.
> 
> For example, when a woman gives birth, her brain is flooded with oxytocin. The works to bond her to her new baby. It also helps her deal with the awful pain of birth. The oxytocin numbs her memory of the pain. It's often said that were it no for oxytocin, no woman would ever have a second child.
> 
> ...






> *Have you ever talked to a victim of abuse who on the one hand can tell you pretty clearly that abuse that is going on; and on the other hand, their eyes seem glossed over as they talk about their love for thier abuser? That's oxytocin talking.*


Yes, this in particular, I also wish to understand.



> This is why the best solution to end the cycle of violence is to remove the victim from the abusive situation and keep them apart from the abuser for some period of time. Once the oxytocin response cycle to their abuser is broken, they can "see the forest for the trees". At that point they don't remember the 'love" and only remember the pain of the abuse. They cycle is broken.


Guessing 5 months wouldn't be long enough?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Sometimes it's prosecuted. Others not. It's actually not all that easy because often there is not much evidence. Abuse is paid more attention to now, but it's still hard to prove.


It seems prevalent during COVID lockdowns which brought a lot of attention to it too.


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

RandomDude said:


> All the more reason to post this so myself and others can find understanding.


You can post whatever you like, I just don’t like the feeling of blaming the victim. Why is it always the question-why don’t they leave? Why do they tolerate it? 
Why not ask why they get treated this way? What can be done to help? Why not ask why the abuser doesn’t leave? No one ever asks that do they? It’s always the victim.
Just don’t put it squarely on the victims’ shoulders. They have enough to deal with. Do they need to read into it that they are the ones at fault for staying. Again, the circumstances are different for every person and no one size fits all. Don’t believe a victim of the abuse has a simple option to just up and leave. Don’t fool yourself. There are so many things that ruin an abused person’s outlook. It takes time for them to figure it out and then they have to get up the courage to make that change. 
All I’m trying to say is- Don’t judge them. Support them. Leaving is easy when writing about it on a forum. It’s a whole other ballgame when it’s implemented in real life.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Aye, I used to smoke and was an alcoholic in my younger years. You need to want to help yourself or no one can help you.
> 
> It's the wanting to help themselves part I guess I don't get, smoking/alcoholism there is pleasure in the addiction, but putting up with violence when you get home?


Because even abusive relationships often have good parts too. And in an abusive relationship where the abuser knows what they are doing so to speak, they understand how to manipulate and make the good parts really really good and the bad, awful in a way that manipulates the emotions and mental state of the victim in a state of confusion and instability and even to the point of confusing their perception of reality.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EB123 said:


> Why not ask why they get treated this way?


Because regardless of why they get treated that way, there is only one solution - find ways to remove themselves from the situation.



> What can be done to help?


Yes, we should ask more of this.



> Why not ask why the abuser doesn’t leave? No one ever asks that do they? It’s always the victim.
> Just don’t put it squarely on the victims’ shoulders. They have enough to deal with. Do they need to read into it that they are the ones at fault for staying. Again, the circumstances are different for every person and no one size fits all. Don’t believe a victim of the abuse has a simple option to just up and leave. Don’t fool yourself. There are so many things that ruin an abused person’s outlook. It takes time for them to figure it out and then they have to get up the courage to make that change.
> All I’m trying to say is- Don’t judge them. Support them. Leaving is easy when writing about it on a forum. It’s a whole other ballgame when it’s implemented in real life.


True, I guess I should have more empathy too looking back at my ex's mum who was completely dependent on her husband hence she could not escape. 
He didn't hit her, but he controlled her socially, financially, and was abusive just not physically. My ex was the one who protected her mum, and hence was always tied to her family because of how the family would fall apart without her.

That's one case I know personally which I can understand I guess.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If you’re concerned about the woman you’re seeing possibly going back to her abusive boyfriend — yes, she may but after five months away it’s less likely than if the breakup were much more recent. However, sounds like he’s still her ideal physically so there’s that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sometimes it's prosecuted. Others not. It's actually not all that easy because often there is not much evidence. Abuse is paid more attention to now, but it's still hard to prove.


Unless there are injuries.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Unless there are injuries.


A lot of abusers are very good at moderating their abuse to the point of stopping just short of serious enough injury to be taken seriously by the police.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> A lot of abusers are very good at moderating their abuse to the point of stopping just short of serious enough injury to be taken seriously by the police.


And often the fear of injury is more terrifying than actually being injured...so that your brain reacts as if you've been hit, from simply the threat of it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And the fear that he’ll come after her when he gets out of jail. Many women stay because they know how much at risk they — and their children — are if they leave. Some will kill to keep what they consider their property. It happens frequently enough to be a major concern to someone thinking about leaving. They’re betting staying is less risky than leaving and having him track them down. But they aren’t always correct.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

When people DO report it, many cases are dismissed. Even accounting for false accusations. In one city, between 2015 and 2020 the percentage and number of dismissed cases has increased, meaning more and more cases are being reported, and more and more dismissed. When restraining orders are granted they offer very little actual protection. All the offender has to do is make themselves enough of a nuisance to endanger the victim's job, and they are without resources. Leaving very often doesn't solve the issue. Sometimes people think nobody will believe them. Or they don't have enough proof. Or they have been so isolated from their friends and extended family that they don't have anyone to tell. My grandmother was a victim of domestic violence. She tried to leave a few times after he hit my mom and her siblings. They had no money and no place to stay, so they went to a family member's house, but he promised to change, she believed him, and she said to me in later years, it wasn't done to divorce. She was afraid of damaging her children's childhood by divorcing, which was crazy because he hit their kids, but he had her convinced that they needed him. Some of that is generational, but some...I don't know. In her weird way, she loved him even though he was an a$$. He sort of mellowed in his old age, stopped drinking as much, and by the time I was born you would never have known he did that as a younger man. He was a good grandad for the most part. Very few people are obvious monsters - many abusers have charm, charisma. He was tall, handsome, funny as a young man. He loved making people laugh. I can see why she loved him when she was young. I just can't really see why stayed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Yes, this in particular, I also wish to understand.
> 
> 
> Guessing 5 months wouldn't be long enough?


For some no. My take on it that the more they ruminate over the 'love' that they lost, the longer it takes. There can be almost an addiction to the roller coaster. Some where I read it explained as "I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all."


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> Why do people tolerate it?


Often, as in about half the time, physical abuse is reciprocated. Meaning both partners are doing it.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Will leave this comment here to come back to tomorrow. I find it hard to talk about my physically abusive relationship when I was 18-21. Will explain why I kept taking him back and why I finally got the courage to stay away.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

EB123 said:


> You can post whatever you like, I just don’t like the feeling of blaming the victim. Why is it always the question-why don’t they leave? Why do they tolerate it?
> Why not ask why they get treated this way? What can be done to help? Why not ask why the abuser doesn’t leave? No one ever asks that do they? It’s always the victim.
> Just don’t put it squarely on the victims’ shoulders. They have enough to deal with. Do they need to read into it that they are the ones at fault for staying. Again, the circumstances are different for every person and no one size fits all. Don’t believe a victim of the abuse has a simple option to just up and leave. Don’t fool yourself. There are so many things that ruin an abused person’s outlook. It takes time for them to figure it out and then they have to get up the courage to make that change.
> All I’m trying to say is- Don’t judge them. Support them. Leaving is easy when writing about it on a forum. It’s a whole other ballgame when it’s implemented in real life.


Blaming the victim is inaccurate and unhelpful, even harmful when it impacts a real life person.

At the same time, seeking to understand what thought processes, emotional traps and circumstances, and what biological forces can lead one to stay in harms way is a useful endeavor. And can be done with good intentions, a caring heart.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Lookup “Trauma bond”.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Openminded said:


> If you’re concerned about the woman you’re seeing possibly going back to her abusive boyfriend — yes, she may but after five months away it’s less likely than if the breakup were much more recent. However, sounds like he’s still her ideal physically so there’s that.


Hopefully he isn't possessive, if so may end up in the crossfire. Self defence is illegal in my country so I may have to do what I have to do, big fella gotta be muzzled somehow, just so much drama for a woman. Meh will see.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> Will leave this comment here to come back to tomorrow. I find it hard to talk about my physically abusive relationship when I was 18-21. Will explain why I kept taking him back and why I finally got the courage to stay away.


😯


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

joannacroc said:


> When people DO report it, many cases are dismissed. Even accounting for false accusations. In one city, between 2015 and 2020 the percentage and number of dismissed cases has increased, meaning more and more cases are being reported, and more and more dismissed. When restraining orders are granted they offer very little actual protection. All the offender has to do is make themselves enough of a nuisance to endanger the victim's job, and they are without resources. Leaving very often doesn't solve the issue. Sometimes people think nobody will believe them. Or they don't have enough proof. Or they have been so isolated from their friends and extended family that they don't have anyone to tell. My grandmother was a victim of domestic violence. She tried to leave a few times after he hit my mom and her siblings. They had no money and no place to stay, so they went to a family member's house, but he promised to change, she believed him, and she said to me in later years, it wasn't done to divorce. She was afraid of damaging her children's childhood by divorcing, which was crazy because he hit their kids, but he had her convinced that they needed him. Some of that is generational, but some...I don't know. In her weird way, she loved him even though he was an a$$. He sort of mellowed in his old age, stopped drinking as much, and by the time I was born you would never have known he did that as a younger man. He was a good grandad for the most part. Very few people are obvious monsters - many abusers have charm, charisma. He was tall, handsome, funny as a young man. He loved making people laugh. I can see why she loved him when she was young. I just can't really see why stayed.


Damn, in my family we dont have that, I'm lucky we are all graced with chivalric men and independent women, among my people though in general there's a culture of alcoholism and yes, lots of violence too. I hate it but it just frustrates me how people get away with it when their victims keep going back or staying.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> For some no. My take on it that the more they ruminate over the 'love' that they lost, the longer it takes. There can be almost an addiction to the roller coaster. Some where I read it explained as "I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all."


😖


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

A lot of people aren't going to believe me when I say this, but I've known some women who stay in these situations because they like it. This couple I used to know from the old neighborhood, her BF was abusive. One day he was abusive to her while she was driving and it caused an accident. Since the guy was a criminal, he basically left her at the scene. She never pressed any charges against him and from what I hear, she still tries to get with him years later. She liked being with a mean criminal. You try treating that girl right and she will walk all over you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Openminded said:


> And the fear that he’ll come after her when he gets out of jail. Many women stay because they know how much at risk they — and their children — are if they leave. Some will kill to keep what they consider their property. It happens frequently enough to be a major concern to someone thinking about leaving. They’re betting staying is less risky than leaving and having him track them down. But they aren’t always correct.


The children are deeply damaged by not being taken out of the abusive situation. Many will end up abusing or being abused because of it. 
Even if we don't leave for ourselves, leave for them. No one else will protect them.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> A lot of people aren't going to believe me when I say this, but I've known some women who stay in these situations because they like it. This couple I used to know from the old neighborhood, her BF was abusive. One day he was abusive to her while she was driving and it caused an accident. Since the guy was a criminal, he basically left her at the scene. She never pressed any charges against him and from what I hear, she still tries to get with him years later. She liked being with a mean criminal. You try treating that girl right and she will walk all over you.


Yes some women are hooked on the bad boys, something I would assume won't be the case for women 25+ but you know, it happens.

Crims get fans in jail after all


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EB123 said:


> You can post whatever you like, I just don’t like the feeling of blaming the victim. Why is it always the question-why don’t they leave? Why do they tolerate it?
> Why not ask why they get treated this way? What can be done to help? Why not ask why the abuser doesn’t leave? No one ever asks that do they? It’s always the victim.
> Just don’t put it squarely on the victims’ shoulders. They have enough to deal with. Do they need to read into it that they are the ones at fault for staying. Again, the circumstances are different for every person and no one size fits all. Don’t believe a victim of the abuse has a simple option to just up and leave. Don’t fool yourself. There are so many things that ruin an abused person’s outlook. It takes time for them to figure it out and then they have to get up the courage to make that change.
> All I’m trying to say is- Don’t judge them. Support them. Leaving is easy when writing about it on a forum. It’s a whole other ballgame when it’s implemented in real life.


The abuser isn't going to leave. They can't abuse without a victim though.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Why do people tolerate it?


Because leaving or standing up to it can sometimes be fatal. For the children too.

It’s usually a slow and gradual process, so the victim is broken down and isolated over a period of time.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

There's many reasons why a dv victim either stays or goes back. It's not as simple as "just leave" or "there's plenty of support out there" (there isn't really), not in the form of ongoing anyway.

At the higher socio economic end of the scale you have prominent, powerful men, "pillars of the community", no one would believe their victim. At the mid range you have law enforcement, who rally around to protect the abuser in a LOT of cases. And at the lower range you have victims who often haven't even completed high school, they got pregnant young, often either never worked or a menial entry level job.

These abusers are smart and cunning. They isolate their victims from friends and family, and often the outside world by taking their phones away, their car keys. They have to account for every minute of their time to their abuser. They are broken down until they become completely dependent on them.

For anyone who blames the victim, shame on you.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

frusdil said:


> There's many reasons why a dv victim either stays or goes back. It's not as simple as "just leave" or "there's plenty of support out there" (there isn't really), not in the form of ongoing anyway.
> 
> At the higher socio economic end of the scale you have prominent, powerful men, "pillars of the community", no one would believe their victim. At the mid range you have law enforcement, who rally around to protect the abuser in a LOT of cases. And at the lower range you have victims who often haven't even completed high school, they got pregnant young, often either never worked or a menial entry level job.
> 
> ...


Agreed. It's cold and very cruel to dismiss abuse victims as bad mothers or selfish because they won't "just leave."


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> The children are deeply damaged by not being taken out of the abusive situation. Many will end up abusing or being abused because of it.
> Even if we don't leave for ourselves, leave for them. No one else will protect them.


It would be hard to protect your child if you were dead.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> It could be one of those things that you can only understand if you are from that side of the fence.
> 
> Curious about financial dependence as a reason for tolerance. In my country we have immediate financial support packages for victims. Trying to understand this reason.


There are no reasons other than abuse is what they want or they find it more tolerable than the alternative. I've recently been witness to a woman who is too lazy to raise her kids on her own so she took him back. After she went through the whole social service thing and got free and clear. She let him move in to the place the government is paying for to get her away from him. 

What I really don't understand is why people are so wrapped up in the concept of abuser and victim. Why is it so scary and uncomfortable to acknowledge both people bear some responsibility 99% of the time?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Why do people tolerate it?


many years ago I was dragged into an experance with a couple that used me as their safe card when he would have too much drink on him and abuse his wife in more than one way 
at the time I looked into all types of information to help the woman see that she needed to take herself and her kids away from him ,
some of the information said that the victims often seek out a more powerfull man moch the same way as a little in a bdsm relationship seeks out a dom ,
a very worring fact was to learn that on av the victim runs away 7 times before they stay gone.
the couple I was used by as their safety net sold their homes and bought a house in a wooded area where they lived cut off from the rest of the world , 
i saw this as an effort by them both to hide from the outside world, as time went on I saw them less when I went out shopping and now can't say if they still live in the area or not even though the house was only 3 miles from me at the other side of a small town .
I got dragged into something that I did not expect , and I had to save my self from it as I had become so much of a friend of them that at one time I whould have given my life to save him from himself


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

gaius said:


> There are no reasons other than abuse is what they want or they find it more tolerable than the alternative. I've recently been witness to a woman who is too lazy to raise her kids on her own so she took him back. After she went through the whole social service thing and got free and clear. She let him move in to the place the government is paying for to get her away from him.


🤦‍♂️



> What I really don't understand is why people are so wrapped up in the concept of abuser and victim.* Why is it so scary and uncomfortable to acknowledge both people bear some responsibility 99% of the time?*


Agreed, but again, doing so is victim blaming, and we aren't allowed to do that.

However, I have seen cases where women are so powerless they literally can not do anything though, so I would say 60% of the time.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

frenchpaddy said:


> many years ago I was dragged into an experance with a couple that used me as their safe card when he would have too much drink on him and abuse his wife in more than one way
> at the time I looked into all types of information to help the woman see that she needed to take herself and her kids away from him ,
> *some of the information said that the victims often seek out a more powerfull man moch the same way as a little in a bdsm relationship seeks out a dom ,*
> a very worring fact was to learn that on av the victim runs away 7 times before they stay gone.


Well, sh-t.



> the couple I was used by as their safety net sold their homes and bought a house in a wooded area where they lived cut off from the rest of the world ,
> i saw this as an effort by them both to hide from the outside world, as time went on I saw them less when I went out shopping and now can't say if they still live in the area or not even though the house was only 3 miles from me at the other side of a small town .
> I got dragged into something that I did not expect , and I had to save my self from it as I had become so much of a friend of them that at one time I whould have given my life to save him from himself


Good thing you cut them off, can't help those who won't help themselves.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Well, sh-t.
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing you cut them off, can't help those who won't help themselves.


well have the experance of it up close I can now say that there is a lot of crap printed about this if one wants to look it up the wife questioned herself and blamed herself like as if she had been born to be abused, 
I could never understand why she went so far to make me feel it was I that was making it up ,there was even the time she told me she bumped into a post outside in the dark when she had a black eye , 

they had two kids 8 and 11 years old and she told me she needed to stay with him untill the kids had done uni , as he had a very good job taking in 4 times her wage , 
he would not drink for a week or even 2 and then take off work early buy 2 bottles of whiskey and drink the first pick up the kids from school, ( with a 500cc honda - in France it is law that if a mother or father came to pick up their kids and the school thought they were drinking that the services must be called but this never happened as mother was fund raiser of the school) 
I went too the police and was told to go home and tell your friend not to come to their door when he beats her they see it so often and the wife calls them out when the fight is on and the next day drops all charges . 
and the only thing in law is if a person beats their other half that person must go to a doctor and have the dr willing to state she had bruses ,


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Agreed. It's cold and very cruel to dismiss abuse victims as bad mothers or selfish because they won't "just leave."


As a mother we must protect our children at all costs. If we won't do it for ourselves then do it for them.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It would be hard to protect your child if you were dead.


If you leave early on as soon as there is any violence you won't be dead. Why people have children with a violent abuser I have no idea.


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## Antiqueteenager1 (7 mo ago)

I am going to court due to my husband violating the pfa order I had placed on him. He came to our home where he was not supposed to and that was a violation, he's been in jail 6 days and the hearing will be to either let him out or back in. I read all of the previous posts and I can honestly say my thoughts are very mixed as to stay the course and follow through with divorce or stay married and alive. I'm not good with the unknown but I'm going to have to live with watching my back. I have myself and my granddaughter to protect here . No family, some friends but they seem to be distancing themselves right now. The laws here are not set up correctly for domestic violence. It's sad but true. Wish me luck and I'll post the outcome later today 🙏


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Antiqueteenager1 said:


> I am going to court due to my husband violating the pfa order I had placed on him. He came to our home where he was not supposed to and that was a violation, he's been in jail 6 days and the hearing will be to either let him out or back in. *I read all of the previous posts and I can honestly say my thoughts are very mixed as to stay the course and follow through with divorce or stay married and alive. I'm not good with the unknown but I'm going to have to live with watching my back. I have myself and my granddaughter to protect here *. No family, some friends but they seem to be distancing themselves right now. The laws here are not set up correctly for domestic violence. It's sad but true. Wish me luck and I'll post the outcome later today 🙏


You know your situation best, do what you have to do 🙏


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Antiqueteenager1 said:


> I am going to court due to my husband violating the pfa order I had placed on him. He came to our home where he was not supposed to and that was a violation, he's been in jail 6 days and the hearing will be to either let him out or back in. I read all of the previous posts and I can honestly say my thoughts are very mixed as to stay the course and follow through with divorce or stay married and alive. I'm not good with the unknown but I'm going to have to live with watching my back. I have myself and my granddaughter to protect here . No family, some friends but they seem to be distancing themselves right now. The laws here are not set up correctly for domestic violence. It's sad but true. Wish me luck and I'll post the outcome later today 🙏


The distancing from others is normal, and you’ll find many people will side with him.

You see, this happens too during the abuse too. The few people that get a glimpse of what the abuser is really like, also understand the danger of challenging such a person. The other people who don’t see the bad side are usually charmed. Because these people are the ultimate charmers. And usually charm unsettled and unstable types, because they often come in handy as a tool to use to further break down the victim. You know how it goes. The drug-addled tough guy, the histrionic flirty lady who can turn bunny boiler in a flash. The abuser always has a few ‘scary’ friends around. The victim usually has a few people to be scared of if she dares leave! Make no mistake, it is mammoth, tremendously dangerous to leave.

If the abuser abides by the law and doesn’t physically harm the person that leaves them, the psychological abuse and retaliation that follows can be just as detrimental to a persons mental and financial health. The consequences can be devastating to a mother with children to look after. And often, the ptsd and depression usually hits much later anyway, once the victim is actually physically distant from the abuser. A delayed shock, if you will.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Antiqueteenager1 said:


> I am going to court due to my husband violating the pfa order I had placed on him. He came to our home where he was not supposed to and that was a violation, he's been in jail 6 days and the hearing will be to either let him out or back in. I read all of the previous posts and I can honestly say my thoughts are very mixed as to stay the course and follow through with divorce or stay married and alive. I'm not good with the unknown but I'm going to have to live with watching my back. I have myself and my granddaughter to protect here . No family, some friends but they seem to be distancing themselves right now. The laws here are not set up correctly for domestic violence. It's sad but true. Wish me luck and I'll post the outcome later today 🙏


Well done for doing the right thing for yourself and your granddaughter.


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## Antiqueteenager1 (7 mo ago)

He was sentenced to an additional 6 months probation and 100$ fine. Also court ordered psychological evaluation that has to be handed to his probation officer afterwards. 

It was nerve-wracking being in the courtroom. 
He did get a bit mouthy with the judge but the judge didn't give him another chance to being mouthy. He did ask the judge how he'd feel if he was spit on? The judge then said to me " Mrs x you ser how things escalate? I yes yes I do and I did not intentionally spit on him ,spit was flying out of my mouth bcz I was angry.

I hope he learned from his time in jail ( 6 days) that next time will be 1 - 2 yrs.
I do have a plan in place in case he would come here again.
Bear mace is waiting for him and my grand and I will be out the back door,into the car and to the police station. 

Ty all for replying it does help to know you are here to listen and advice.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Antiqueteenager1 said:


> He was sentenced to an additional 6 months probation and 100$ fine. Also court ordered psychological evaluation that has to be handed to his probation officer afterwards.
> 
> It was nerve-wracking being in the courtroom.
> He did get a bit mouthy with the judge but the judge didn't give him another chance to being mouthy. He did ask the judge how he'd feel if he was spit on? The judge then said to me " Mrs x you ser how things escalate? I yes yes I do and I did not intentionally spit on him ,spit was flying out of my mouth bcz I was angry.
> ...


Are you not able to move? Start anew? How dangerous is he exactly?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> If you leave early on as soon as there is any violence you won't be dead. Why people have children with a violent abuser I have no idea.


They often don't have a choice. Rape is a big part of dv.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

frusdil said:


> They often don't have a choice. Rape is a big part of dv.


People with no idea what domestic violence really is (and thank goodness they don’t, I wish no one did) have NO clue about any of this. They have no concept of how broken down mentally someone is and make sweeping, insensitive statements. Perhaps not deliberately, but cruel all the same.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> People with no idea what domestic violence really is (and thank goodness they don’t, I wish no one did) have NO clue about any of this. They have no concept of how broken down mentally someone is and make sweeping, insensitive statements. Perhaps not deliberately, but cruel all the same.


Yes, some have very simplistic views on it, it just doesn't work that way.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TexasMom1216 said:


> People with no idea what domestic violence really is (and thank goodness they don’t, I wish no one did) have NO clue about any of this. They have no concept of how broken down mentally someone is and make sweeping, insensitive statements. Perhaps not deliberately, but cruel all the same.





frusdil said:


> Yes, some have very simplistic views on it, it just doesn't work that way.


The stories of domestic abuse victims are very broad, I don't think it's possible to make absolute conclusions. In some cases though, it is valid.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> The stories of domestic abuse victims are very broad, I don't think it's possible to make absolute conclusions. In some cases though, it is valid.


Absolutely. That's why simplistic views just don't work on such a broad, complicated subject.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

frusdil said:


> Absolutely. That's why simplistic views just don't work on such a broad, complicated subject.


I also think that some people see a specific case of DV and then assume many or all cases are like that one. Like the girl and her abusive BF I mentioned before, she went on to marry dude after he did that to her. When he went to prison for unrelated things, she was still sending him money. She only stopped when she found out he had some other girl on the side. She was fine with him beating her up but drew the line at other women. I really think that's just the sort of guy she wants.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Yet we are living in the information age no?


Right. Which is handy for the abusers too. I mean this thread alone is the perfect handbook for an abuser to take notes and educate himself. Isn’t it?


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

DownButNotOut said:


> Often, as in about half the time, physical abuse is reciprocated. Meaning both partners are doing it.


This is true.

It is commonly assumed that the husband is doing it. Few seem to realize that the wife can be equally irritating and counter-abusive in some households. The wife is more likely to call the cops and pretend to be innocent as well, just to teach her husband a lesson (no guarantees though; some men are not afraid of cops and spending time in jail - these are the men to FEAR to be honest). Both partners can be too self-centered and egotistical to compromise and sort out their 'problems' in sensible ways. I am sure that the Police have many stories to tell _*but*_ society does not wants to hear them, or the press is not interested.

My social circle is BIG, and I have seen things, and heard stories.

I do feel sorry for legitimate victims (men and women).


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## kimduhan (Feb 19, 2019)

Its a big problem.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

From what is shared with someone I know now who is working at the courts, I'm also starting to gain an understanding of domestic violence victims, how the system just fails them. Seeing such 'justice' no wonder victims fear speaking out or escaping.


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