# I would like some input please



## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

Alright, to try to keep this short and to the point. Here's the situation:

H & I were separated for almost three years, started the divorce process but never finalized it.

Before we separated H was having an EA (not sure if it was a PA, he's admitted the EA part) with his ex-wife. I tried to deal, the bomb fell, I packed up and moved out with our DSes. 

Our separation was complicated to say the least. We were on/off/hot/cold with each other the entire time. Yes, there were several times during the separation where we were intimate with each other. See? Complicated.  (never admitted to being the brightest crayon in the box.) We also never discussed if we were "okay" with the other person dating during this period of separation.

Earlier this year, H started to REALLY talk about moving back (he had moved out of state within 6 months of our separation - and he talked about moving back 2-6 months out of a year for three years, it seemed), and I was thrilled. Fast forward to July of this year, and he's back in the state.

Well, we agreed to move back in together and really work on things. We both have our issues but we are trying to make this marriage work.

One of my major faults before we split was lying. So, I confessed to my H about dating a co-worker for a short time. (I felt like I had cheated on my H, even though at that time we were separated and in the process of getting the divorce through - this was before it was put on "pause" indefinitely.) H said he had already suspected as such and had already forgiven me for it.

Here's the kicker, while looking at the text messages on his phone, I saw where he had been dating this woman and they didn't end it until AFTER he moved up here.

I did ask him if he had ever dated anyone while he was down there, and said he tried (this was done in a way to "air out the dirty laundry" and to rekindle our lost openness with each other over everything), but he never really had a relationship. And this woman in the texts has always been referred to by him as "my friend [name]."

I hated bringing up everything right before he made a business trip - but it was either before or after.

He acted like it was no big deal. He had been talking about selling his old cell phone, and "all of a sudden" he had to take it with him.

And here's something that made me ponder, my oldest DS just said this morning "I hope daddy doesn't find someone else to love while he's in [city]."
I responded "Why? Did daddy love someone else when you went down there last?" (oldest DS spent spring break with H out of state)
DS, fairly quickly and almost an edge to his voice "No, no! Don't tell daddy I said that, okay?"
"Okay."

I get it, it happened. There's nothing I can change that would undo it. My whole point is, why can't he tell me that he was dating her? (Yes, I suspected he was dating her... I may not be a genius, but I'm not stupid either.) We were apart, legally separated. All we were doing was talking about reconciliation. It hadn't happened yet. I want him to be honest with me like I was with him.

No, he has not contacted her since we moved back in together.

The night we had this little "hear-to-heart" talk where I confessed my wrongdoings, he said something along the lines of "let's leave what happened in the past in the past. wipe the slate clean and start fresh." -- and that's when he got quiet and mentioned taking his old cell phone (with all the text messages on it) with him.

I guess my big thing is I would like input. Has anyone gotten back together with their spouse after a separation or divorce? If you dated other people during the time you were apart, did you admit to the other person that you did so? Did you hide it? If you hid it, why? Or did you just NOT talk about it at all? If so, why?

I'm just trying to understand his reasoning, and why he would lie. (H-E-double hockey sticks, I kept trying to make it work when he had his EA with his ex RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.)

Sorry, this ended up being longer than I intended. I guess I just need some closure on the subject that H didn't give the other night.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

It can't work if he wants to rug sweep.

It can't work if the dishonesty on both your parts isn't overcome.

Yes, you can wipe the slate clean, but rugsweeping is not the way to do it.

Consider the possibility that he doesn't want to come clean to avoid burning bridges with the other woman. If this is the case you will experience a false reconciliation.


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

Is it wrong of me to hope that guilt will "eat him alive" while he's gone and he'll tell me when he comes back?

I agree that rugsweeping everything will make things worse. I'd swept my wrongdoing for about 2 years, and felt guilty over it. Sometimes I still do, but I feel better now that I told H.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

zyx12321xyz said:


> Is it wrong of me to hope that guilt will "eat him alive" while he's gone and he'll tell me when he comes back?


It's not wrong to hope, but I doubt this will happen. If you were starting over and airing out dirty laundry, he had the opportunity to say something and he didn't. That in and of itself is a big red flag. How are you supposed to start this relationship over, if he is not participating in making it work? 

If it's that important to you that you know, tell him. 

Personally, if he isn't talking to her anymore and you are officially back together, what he did while you guys broke up really isn't your business. I'm sorry if that sounds rude. There was a whole thread about this in the coping with infidelity section. Everyone feels different on this subject. I don't see how it can bring anything but misery to know what happened, but that's just me. You obviously feel different. 

But if you must know and it's important to you, express to him this is a firm boundary for you that you need to know everything. Otherwise this isn't going to work.


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> It's not wrong to hope, but I doubt this will happen. If you were starting over and airing out dirty laundry, he had the opportunity to say something and he didn't. That in and of itself is a big red flag. How are you supposed to start this relationship over, if he is not participating in making it work?


We used to have a HUGE problem before we separated about keeping secrets with each other. I don't want that again.



staarz21 said:


> Personally, if he isn't talking to her anymore and you are officially back together, what he did while you guys broke up really isn't your business. I'm sorry if that sounds rude. There was a whole thread about this in the coping with infidelity section. Everyone feels different on this subject. I don't see how it can bring anything but misery to know what happened, but that's just me. You obviously feel different.


I realize its none of my business, and I DON'T want details on whatever went on, I just want the truth from him. I won't hold it against him. It happened while we were apart. A simple "yes I did date other people while we were separated" would suffice. I wouldn't ask for specifics. It, basically, all comes down to closure for me.

I will look for that thread you mentioned. Would you be so kind as to link to it, if you can find it again?

Part of me is afraid that its not going to work out - its failed once, what's to say it won't happen again?


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

zyx12321xyz said:


> I guess my big thing is I would like input. Has anyone gotten back together with their spouse after a separation or divorce? If you dated other people during the time you were apart, did you admit to the other person that you did so? Did you hide it? If you hid it, why? Or did you just NOT talk about it at all? If so, why?


This is the main point/question of my whole spill. I'm bumping my own thread in hopes that someone will answer some of the questions for me.

I do appreciate the input I've already gotten, and would greatly welcome more.


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

Ducktapetherapy said:


> Personally, Because of the varying issues here, I don't see how this will all work without some counseling. Have you looked into counseling?


I have started trying to find out information about counseling in my area. I know there are options out there, and I am looking. My best friend actually suggested that option as well this morning.

I remember trying to try counseling before a few times... this will be an interesting topic to bring up with H. I will wait until he's back home. It just doesn't seem like the topic of conversation you bring up over the phone.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

What's the point of getting back together if the reasons for being apart have not changed.


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

Q tip said:


> What's the point of getting back together if the reasons for being apart have not changed.


H never really hid much from me while we were together before. He never lied to me. I was the liar in the relationship. If anything, the roles have been reversed. The reason for our separation was never mentioned, so please don't assume to know. All I said was "the bomb dropped."

All I want are answers to the questions at the end of my original post, the ones I posted above, and will quote now:


> I guess my big thing is I would like input. Has anyone gotten back together with their spouse after a separation or divorce? If you dated other people during the time you were apart, did you admit to the other person that you did so? Did you hide it? If you hid it, why? Or did you just NOT talk about it at all? If so, why?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

It sounds to me like you are OPEN to hear the raw truth and won't hold it against him.. the fact you were separate for 3 straight years, on the rocks, people get lonely, it's human nature ...you don't seem to expect perfection from him.. plus you haven't been forthcoming with the truth yourself -so you have said.... if anything....he ought to feel MORE COMFORTABLE opening up to you.. it's not like you have a halo on your head here... *you've both made mistakes*... 

BUT.. and this is a Big BUT... if one has not lived and breathed a life of transparency with one another, this is not going to come easy.. it may be something you both need to get counseling for.. to open up to *this degree* before one another.... if you intend to give this another go... 

Does it really matter what other people did, how they handled it.. if it's something YOU WANT TO KNOW.. this is not going to change.. Reading so many marital stories here ...on how people feel about sexual pasts, honestly, transparency.. WOW.. the differences in each individual is striking.. some can not accept the dishonesty, the hiding it.. while if they were just HONEST ... it could be dealt with and overcome.. whereas another could NEVER handle hearing the truth and would rather NEVER know.. or they'd never look at their partner the same again...the truth would destroy them! So they nail the doors shut and never try to open again.. 

I think it matters most what sort of person YOU ARE...and what you personally NEED from him.. ..to give this another go...moving on with a fresh start..both of you realizing you both screwed up.. but bound to get it right this time around.. 

Communicate, communicate, communicate, if he can't give you what you need in this...or refuses to... it would be best to just move on without him..



> *zyx12321xyz said*:* We used to have a HUGE problem before we separated about keeping secrets with each other. I don't want that again.*


 this may sound a little radical to those who very much appreciate their privacy or have their secrets ...but this will shed some light on how Transparency works..what I call a "willing /giving transparency".. it DOESN'T expect perfection.. but it does expect honesty. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...parency-what-means-our-marraige-what-you.html

This was very good read too...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/articles/993-sex-lies-secrets-secrecy-destroying-your-marriage.html


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

zyx12321xyz said:


> H never really hid much from me while we were together before. He never lied to me. I was the liar in the relationship. If anything, the roles have been reversed. The reason for our separation was never mentioned, so please don't assume to know. All I said was "the bomb dropped."
> 
> All I want are answers to the questions at the end of my original post, the ones I posted above, and will quote now:


I would require total open honesty and transparency. Then decide if I could live with it. I would go very slowly on this. Very cautiously. It your life and a major decision.

My question is still valid. If nothing's changed... Why get back together.


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## Westwind (May 20, 2013)

Tell the truth to him always. At least that is under your control. Try and get him to do the same, about his being unfaithful.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Input? Okay. Sounds like way too much drama to me. Get together. Cheat. Lie. Screw around with someone else. Screw around with each other. Get back together. Break up.

More like an episode from "Dallas" than a marriage, IMO. Lying? No way. No how. Period. That shoots a marriage in the foot quicker than anything.

Seriously.


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## Westwind (May 20, 2013)

He has to be causing you stress, and that could bring on medical problems because of the hit to your immune system from this stress. He is also going to cause stress induced medical problems for himself. For more information see book, The Longevity Project, by Howard Friedman. He will start having serious medical problems around age 50 because he is divorced. A divorced woman; however, does much better.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Sorry OP I am just getting back to you. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/220882-question-men.html

That thread is extremely long. It has varying opinions regarding knowing information of past experience. While the situation is FAR different from yours, you can still read opinions of the posters. 

Either way, you will feel however YOU feel about it. No one is going to change your mind - unless YOU want to change it. 

Whether I believe knowing information is good or not is irrelevant. You want to know, you asked him flat out, he lied. 

What are you going to do about that? It seems as though things really haven't changed all that much at all.


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

Wow, this thread exploded overnight while I was offline! Thank you everyone.



SimplyAmorous said:


> It sounds to me like you are OPEN to hear the raw truth and won't hold it against him.. the fact you were separate for 3 straight years, on the rocks, people get lonely, it's human nature ...you don't seem to expect perfection from him.. plus you haven't been forthcoming with the truth yourself -so you have said.... if anything....he ought to feel MORE COMFORTABLE opening up to you.. it's not like you have a halo on your head here... *you've both made mistakes*...


I have decided to tell H the truth, that I snooped and looked at the text messages on his old phone, that I already knew, I've already forgiven him for having the relationships with these women, but what hurts right now is that he lied to me about it. Neither of us were/are/or will be perfect.

I'm currently reading a book called Avoiding the greener grass syndrome. It discusses, from the POV of the one who had the affair, ways to avoid that as well as ways to grow from it. I'm also re-reading The Love Dare in hopes that maybe we, together, can give it another go. (I tried doing it by myself before the separation, failed; he tried it after the separation, failed. Hoping, if we can do it together, it will hurt and open up what we have both walled up.)

***links are to the amazon product pages***



SimplyAmorous said:


> I think it matters most what sort of person YOU ARE...and what you personally NEED from him.. ..to give this another go...moving on with a fresh start..both of you realizing you both screwed up.. but bound to get it right this time around..
> 
> Communicate, communicate, communicate, if he can't give you what you need in this...or refuses to... it would be best to just move on without him..


I believe I will create a list of things I need from him, and explain why (and hope that it doesn't come across the wrong way). I will also encourage him to make his own list for me.

I'm honestly afraid to be without him. I do love him, I have never *stopped* loving him. I did dislike him A WHOLE LOT while we were separated, but I never hated him.

I would LOVE to discuss all this with him NOW... but he is out of state... and, I believe, that this situation needs to be discussed in person. NOT over the phone, text, or skype.



Q tip said:


> I would require total open honesty and transparency. Then decide if I could live with it. I would go very slowly on this. Very cautiously. It your life and a major decision.
> 
> My question is still valid. If nothing's changed... Why get back together.


Alright, I side-stepped. The answer is I believed things HAD changed, and didn't discover differently until we had been back living together for a month...



Westwind said:


> Tell the truth to him always. At least that is under your control. Try and get him to do the same, about his being unfaithful.


I will read, and re-read, SA's post about Transparency and Honesty. I will be honest with him. Truth, even though it can hurts, is always the best.



Westwind said:


> He has to be causing you stress, and that could bring on medical problems because of the hit to your immune system from this stress. He is also going to cause stress induced medical problems for himself. For more information see book, The Longevity Project, by Howard Friedman. He will start having serious medical problems around age 50 because he is divorced. A divorced woman; however, does much better.


Yes, right now I'm stressed. I had our youngest DS 6-months before our separation. I am a small person anyways... I gained only 30lbs during pregnancy, and lost 40lbs within those 6 months. To get back up to the weight I was before my last pregnancy I STILL need to gain about 10lbs. (When I am stressed, I don't eat. Which is VERY bad because I'm hypoglycemic and anemic.) I do make myself eat, but it ends up being just enough to get me to the next meal time. Think of very small snacks throughout the day.

What I find interesting is “how great minds think alike.”  I was talking with my best friend about this only this morning and she mentioned how he's going to end up giving himself an ulcer. (She is, also, reminding me to eat.)



Prodigal said:


> Input? Okay. Sounds like way too much drama to me. Get together. Cheat. Lie. Screw around with someone else. Screw around with each other. Get back together. Break up.
> 
> More like an episode from "Dallas" than a marriage, IMO. Lying? No way. No how. Period. That shoots a marriage in the foot quicker than anything.
> 
> Seriously.


Yes, I have drama in my life – I believe everyone does to some extent. Officially, we haven't broken up since H moved back here. We were apart for 3 years, to blame and hold against him what he did while we were separated would be the same as doing it to myself. Neither of us are innocent, nor perfect.

Our intimate encounters with each other during our separation could almost be attributed to a mutual loneliness, longing for what was, and to “scratch an itch.” Needless to say that they were confusing, afterwards, for both of us.

I have never watched “Dallas,” nor am I sure I've ever heard of it. 

Again, trying to get rid of the lying.



staarz21 said:


> Sorry OP I am just getting back to you.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/220882-question-men.html
> 
> ...


Again, I am going to tell him the truth, of how I found out, and that I have forgiven him for having those relationships. I will apologize for looking at the texts. Because I “freeze up” talking during confrontation and stress, I have typed up what I want to say to him. (He knows this about me.) 

I don't believe my mindset will be persuaded by what other people have done, I am curious as to how other people handled it.

To lay myself out here, raw, I will say that I am deeply afraid of our marriage failing – for good. I do believe we can get past this. I will spend today researching possible options for marriage counseling, and speak to H about that when he gets home (again, not something I want to talk about over the phone). We are both lacking in communicating with each other, and I want that to change.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I agree that you and he need to have a frank, completely honest discussion about everything. You may need a series of discussions. If you can't do it on your own, seeing an MC together may help you to work through this and open up to each other...also in framing the questions so you can get answers to what you need to know. 

My spouse and I are reconciled/reconciling for about a year now after his infidelity. We have both had to do a lot of work to heal from this as a couple. 

We are both a bit conflict avoidant. However, avoiding conflict, heated or emotional discussions or rug-sweeping if your goal is to reconcile after infidelity is impossible. The conversations will be painful, they may be rage inducing but hopefully they will also be healing. They were for me. 

There is no way I would have bothered trying to reconcile with my spouse had he and I not had a series of really difficult clearings of the air. It just can't be done IMO.

I had to know that he UNDERSTOOD everything. I also needed to hear, see and most importantly BELIEVE his remorse. That couldn't be achieved without talking about it.

Don't let fear of loss of the marriage prevent you from doing what it takes and demanding your husband does what it takes to make it healthy. Fear and silence won't help things to change and will only keep them the way they were prior to and during his A and that's not a marriage worth holding onto.


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

Miss Taken said:


> I agree that you and he need to have a frank, completely honest discussion about everything. You may need a series of discussions. If you can't do it on your own, seeing an MC together may help you to work through this and open up to each other...also in framing the questions so you can get answers to what you need to know.
> 
> My spouse and I are reconciled/reconciling for about a year now after his infidelity. We have both had to do a lot of work to heal from this as a couple.
> 
> ...


I can, and so can everyone else, speculate the reason(s) why he swept the truth under the rug. I will bring up what I did (looking at his text messages), and simply state that - honestly - I'm hurt worse by his lies than him having a relationship with someone else.

I don't like conflict, I freeze up, but I find it easier to write down my thoughts and read them aloud to him that to try to say it all from my heart. Yes, that works well in starting the conversation but it's not a end-all because there will be things that he may say that I cannot account for.

I will try getting in contact with a MC today, and, also, bring up that with H when he gets back.

I will not keep silent about this. As much as I fear our marriage failing, I fear us "falling into old habits" worse.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Yeah most people, myself include have a harder time digesting the lies than the actual betrayal. 

I think writing things down is fine. I do it myself sometimes. Glad to hear you're willing to tackle this head on. It is hard but worth it.


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## zyx12321xyz (Sep 18, 2014)

Update: I talked to H after he got back from his trip. Oh my, that was a long week/day to deal with everything. The Saturday that he got back was probably one of the longest in my life.
I waited until the boys went to bed, and then we talked. I never did write out what I wanted to say, but I managed to get through it.
There were 3 different women I saw that he had texted during the time he lived out of state/we were separated. I brought them all up by name. #1 - he said she was crazy, and there was never really anything between them #2 - he admitted to trying to date her (funny how this was only remembered AFTER I mentioned her by name), and "nothing ever came of it." #3 - the "friend" mentioned in my original post, he blatantly denied anything between the two of them. As for certain messages I brought up "I don't know how those got on my phone." _right..._ 
I TOLD him I looked at them on his old cell phone... he claims they were on the SD card I borrowed from his tablet... (I didn't feel like correcting him that night, but I did later - when he asked me to delete the backup I had made of his SD card off my computer.) He also claimed he WANTED me to look at them because he didn't know how to bring it up. :banghead: The thought that ran through my head _I gave you the PERFECT chance to bring it up whenever I brought up what *I* had done..._
I just don't understand him. He's a hypocrite. He says he "hates liars" yet he has no problem telling his boss lies... Like *I* filled out an application for him in [this state], when all I did was send him the link.
My H is a dumb***, but I love the dumb***. I despise drama, yet my life seems to be full of it.
We aren't going through any counseling, honestly I never brought it up.
We are going through the Love Dare together, and I hope that will open him up and just *tell me the truth*.


Is is sad that I find some small degree of "glee" in the fact that he blocked "friend" on Skype?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Denial... It's not just a river in Africa.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

zyx12321xyz said:


> I guess my big thing is I would like input. Has anyone gotten back together with their spouse after a separation or divorce? If you dated other people during the time you were apart, did you admit to the other person that you did so? Did you hide it? If you hid it, why? Or did you just NOT talk about it at all? If so, why?


You mentioned that being open was important to you. So ask for that in this fresh start. I know you're afraid of the marriage failing for good but I think you need to figure out what you are willing to accept in your relationship. Once you both establish boundaries there won't be so much drama. Otherwise you'll just both go around in circles trying to figure each other out.

See if he feels the same about what a fresh start means.


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