# Separated but living together in a lie



## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

My wife of 14+ years and mother of our 4 kids wants to be separated for a few months while living together peacefully, co parenting, working out together, just not being intimate or personal, and be able to go out with friends, date, or do whatever as she is not feeling attracted to me or in love with me. We went thru this same deal this past summer and then she tried to get back into our relationship for the last 4 months but feels trapped and not in love. I was basically given an ultimatum stating either be separated or inevitably have a unhappy wife in an affair. I love my wife and want to work it out, but seems like it is all on her and her feelings. She thinks counseling is worthless as she is checked out. Any suggestions?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

DO NOT ALLOW THIS.

Take your marriage back. Get some gumption and DO NOT ALLOW THIS.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

I hear ya. We have had many discussions about this and it's either this or she moves out. I told her I am not ok with her living with the family and searching for someone else or dating at all, but in the end, it is up to her to whether she complies with it and keeps it a secret or doesn't. How do you give someone space without damaging the relationship?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Let her go.

If she wants to be single, let her go be single.

She wants the comforts of home and family and the single life too.

Unreal. Some people just....wow.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

john1349 said:


> I hear ya. We have had many discussions about this and it's either this or she moves out. I told her I am not ok with her living with the family and searching for someone else or dating at all, but in the end, it is up to her to whether she complies with it and keeps it a secret or doesn't. How do you give someone space without damaging the relationship?


You divorce them.

This won`t damage the relationship because you don`t have a relationship, not one that resembles marriage anyway.

You need to show her that life is going to suck without you.
The best way to do this is to make her be without you.

Tell her since she wants to be single again she should get the hell out yesterday and then make it happen.

It`s your only real option.


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## CSeryllum (Jan 23, 2012)

Sorry to hear this brother, but dealing with a similar situation (without kids) I had to choose to stay in the house unhappily, pretending to be married in front of her friends and everyone...but knowing the entire time that she was interested in dating other people...and that she was cheating on me already...

Don't put yourself through what I've been going through.

Sometimes you just have to let go, and move on...harder than it sounds I know...but it will help minimize the misery you'll have to endure, believe me on that.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

She had friends that had parents that stayed together in separate living quarters in the house in order to raise the kids and keep them somewhat sane and if I tell her to move out or don't agree to any of this that I am just being selfish and only thinking of myself. Her and her friend both decided this past summer to take a break from their marriages and go out and party cuz they both were married at age 19 and never have been out on their own. Her friend is now in another relationship, in the middle of a divorce and has been telling her all the things that suck about it and how the kids are really have a hard time with all of it. She thinks that living together is financially and mentally more stable for all of us, but ultimately would move out if forced to. I don't believe divorce is the cut and dry answer to problems and feel she is deceived now and having been a housewife for the last 12 years, doesn't fully understand what she is up against and will at some point realize the deception she is in. I just don't want to hurt the kids, be the bad guy that kicked mom out, but I won't stand for being married and having her in a relationship with someone else.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

"All of us"

Where do you fit in "all of us"?

Tell her you are completely not ok with any of this b.s.

She wants your permission to cake eat.

Do not give it to her.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Wow. SHE'S the selfish one.

She chose to get married at 19. So...what is her problem? seemed like a good idea then.

her and her friend sound like teenagers still. Yuck.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

you're right, this is not a happy solution for me at all. Somehow she sees it as a good option. I read the divorce busters book by michelle weiner davis and she talks about mid life crisis and walk away spouses and basically says to work on your relationship with the kids, work on yourself, don't talk about the marriage with your spouse and see if your spouse ends up leaving or coming back verses just ending it on the spot.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Oh of COURSE she sees it as a good option. She gets EVERYTHING she wants!

BE A MAN! DO NOT ALLOW THIS! LET HER GO! LET HER TALK TRASH! WHO CARES! Do the 180. KICK HER OUT. She's got issues.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Do the 180. She's living in a fantasy land and you need to hit her hard with sanctions. Getting tough with her may seem counterintuitive, but it is the ONLY wasy you might stand a chance of waking her up from this dreamworld she is in and saving your marriage. Also sounds like she may be having an affair on the side. Check her emails and texts if you can get hold of them.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

she is acting like a teenager who is dating someone, not married to someone. She basically came back the last few months due to everyone in her family saying how messed up she was getting and how she had a kids to think of. I know she is scared about losing me and putting the kids thru hell but doesn't see a way to stay in marriage and keep sanity but doesn't want to live with regret....says if I truly loved her like Christ love us, I would let her leave--emtionally--and see if she misses it and wants to come back rather than pressuring her to try to work it out or make her the bad guy in the eyes of the kids. It's hard to say "get out" after 14 years of marriage, and being committing yourself to "death do us part".


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She's a master manipulator.

Bringing CHRIST into this?! :rofl: She wants to date other poeple while she's married and she brings CHRIST into this?

What a scumbag.

She broke the vows, not you. yes it's hard but...do you want to save this marriage or not?

If you are weak and just go along with this, she will lose more respect for you than she already has. And beleive me, she DOES NOT respect you. At all.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

I am 95% sure she isn't having an affair, there is nothing in the family emails but she has lock on cell phone and gmail acct so I don't have access to that stuff. She hasn't been out partying with friends so I see her alot, outside of me being at work, but things are obviously going to be changing quite a bit now that she sprung this on me 2 days ago.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Take it back, man. Take it back and grow a spine.

Or allow this and be miserable while your wife goes out and dates other men.

Wtf. But don't forget to love her like Christ does. :rofl:


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

I brought our vows, the Bible and Christ(grace) into the conversation, she just used Christ's attitude as one that lets us choose if we come to Him and He doesn't force us to love Him or follow Him. I know it messed up.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And of course the family email won't have cheating in there.

No offense, but you're kinda dense.

Her phone and other email have locks on them? Would she let you look? sounds fishy.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

she put locks on her phone in case she loses it so personal info isn't in someone elses hand and to prevent me from seeing what goes on. She would probably let me look at them but that doesn't prevent her from deleting the info prior to me seeing them or deleting them daily after they are sent/received. I am not trying to be "dense" with this, I just don't want to make a rash quick decision that could mess up our family. I realize that is what she is doing, but I would rather the kids and out families see her making the stupid decisions and choosing to leave rather than me being the bad guy. I told her she can take some time to herself to get her thoughts in order and I won't pressure her for sex, but that I am not ok with her dating. Since this just started again, she hasn't been out and if she ends up out on some date that will be the time she lives with me.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Read this:

The Healing Heart: The 180

Do it.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, then you suffer.

Don't be the "bad guy" and don't stand up for yourself. Let her just tromp all over your marriage. Good example for the kids. Don't think they won't notice.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks for info Spudster. That girl--I don't want her to walk all over me, I just want to show the kids that marriage is work and the goal is do everything you can to save the marriage rather than just quitting when times are tough or when you think you are tried enough or too much. We tell them to not to quit in school or sports, but then if we break up the marriage cuz someone doesn't feel in love, what are we showing them? If there is dating/affair stuff happening, then I agree that is the end of the line and you proceed with divorce, I just don't know if we are that point now.


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## CSeryllum (Jan 23, 2012)

my wife put a lock on her phone also....she said the same thing "so nobody accidentally gets into it"...and gave me a story about how she left it at work and went back to get it and someone was going through her phone...so she put a password on it.

While that may have happened..I feel it was also an excuse,s o that she could continue talking/mailing/texting the guy she's seeing, without me being able to snoop into her phone and see...


TRUST ME.....when you do everything you can to be reasonable, and work things out...and it doesn't work because she has already checked out...it's time to think about YOURSELF!

I am going through the same thing right now. It's painful, its hard, it's like walking in the fog unsure of what's real, or what direction to go in....but you gotta do it brother.

Just like my wife, your wife is not honoring her vows...it says "FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE"...she's good when things are "FOR BETTER" but wants to explore other options the instant she feels they are "FOR WORSE"

News flash. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence, and she'll likely realize that many times going down the road she is currently headed. 

YOU on the other need to start thinking about yourself...protect yourself...enjoy yourself...if she doesn't cheat, and decides to work things out, it'll be because she sees the person you are without her (a strong, independent man) and desire to be with you. If she doesn't, then it wasn't meant to be, and you're better off.

I am very sorry for your struggle brother, and I feel your pain. I really do.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Do you think your children would admire you more if they watch her steamroll you out of the relationship - or if they see you stand up to her unacceptable behavior?

What do you REALLY want to show them?





john1349 said:


> Thanks for info Spudster. That girl--I don't want her to walk all over me, I just want to show the kids that marriage is work and the goal is do everything you can to save the marriage rather than just quitting when times are tough or when you think you are tried enough or too much. We tell them to not to quit in school or sports, but then if we break up the marriage cuz someone doesn't feel in love, what are we showing them? If there is dating/affair stuff happening, then I agree that is the end of the line and you proceed with divorce, I just don't know if we are that point now.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks CSeryllum. I feel for you too. I am working on myself and going to focus on my kids and working out. I just wish it was easier to come home and not care about what your wife was doing for the day. Our daughter is home with her during the day so I know no one is over or she would tell me. If all the kids were in school it would be easier for her to move out. We don't have any divorces in our families and were raised in Bible believing homes. She is just following her feelings thinking that actions follow feelings, not feelings follow where you put your focus. Can't talk to her about commitment cuz it's too easy to look back and see times when I wasn't "loving" or "nice" which means I wasn't honoring my commitment. I know she is deceived, knows what is right and wrong and hopes she will wake up before it's too late.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

I hear ya Conrad, but the kids don't see her bad behavior and until they do, the only way they would know about it is if I started telling them that mom doesn't love dad anymore and wants to try out other guys. She has said she doesn't feel in love right now with me, but hasn't been having an affair. Unless she were to admit to an affair or attempt to date others while being married living at home, how else do you get the kids to see that something is messed up?


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

> Thanks for info Spudster. That girl--I don't want her to walk all over me, I just want to show the kids that marriage is work and the goal is do everything you can to save the marriage rather than just quitting when times are tough or when you think you are tried enough or too much


Quit the sanctimony. This is your life and your family, and you need to fight for it.

Funny, I don't see anywhere on that 180 page where it talks about giving up on the marriage. The point of the 180 is to help you emotionally disconnect from your wife so that she cannot do you any irreparable harm, and to prepare you for the possibility of a life without her. Your wife has no respect for you because you have been her emotional dartboard, her patsy, her doormat. The 180 will steer you in the other direction.

And as for all the "Jesus is Love" stuff going on here, remember: Jesus is love, but he is aso just. Justice and love are separate items. Jesus loved all sinners and he turned no-one away, except for the religious leaders of his time: the Pharisees and Sadducees. He had nothing but contempt for them, because they knew the Law, the knew right from wrong, and they continued living evil lives. Every time he encountered these men he rebuked them publically, calling them vipers. 

Your wife does not need love right now. She needs justice, because she knows right from wrong and is engaging in horrible sin against you, your children, herself and God.

Now is the time to pray and get tough with her.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

I agree spudster. I have printed off the 180 and will follow it starting today and see where it takes us.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

I am full of sanctimony aren't I. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## Spock (Jan 26, 2012)

You wife is having an affair. 

All her reasoning is just gas lighting to make you question your own sanity, nothing more. She wants to cake eat right under your nose with your full permission.

Get help in verifying the affair in the Coping with Infidelity forum here and nuke the affair. Then you can decide whether you want to R or D. 

No “separation”, clean break! You deserve that.

Get going!


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

I have asked her about the affair, she says no, and really the only time she'd be able to have one is while she is at home with our 5 year old daughter during the day. She is mainly home with me and kids at night. Whether she is having some sort of texting affair or facebook affair is a different story...


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

> I am full of sanctimony aren't I. Thanks for pointing that out.


You're talking to the worst offender on this website. Just read some of my posts! :rofl: 

Being a Christian and walking the Christian road is hard enough without being chained down by moronic, simplistic doctrines that we were taught growing up.

"Love" in my opinion is way overpreached in today's church. In my opinion, the rush to always show love first is sometimes an excuse to be morally lazy. Sometimes tough love is what is needed: a good luvin' 2x4 (figuratively of course) upside your wife's head is what she needs right now. You need to pray that God will expose the full fury and ugliness of her sin to her. Meanwhile, you need to take care of yourself and concentrate on your kids. You cannot control what happens to her.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Oh, almost forgot....

Go to this site and order the book. Read some of the forum posts. 

No More Mr. Nice Guy

There is a good chance you are suffering from Nice Guy syndrome, and maybe this is why your wife is unhappy with you. The posters are all guys, and they can be as crude as Vikings, but they have good hearts and they can help you.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

thanks man


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

By the way, DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE YOU ARE DOING THESE PROGRAMS!!!

Let her see the changes these programs bring about in you, that will create a mystery for her and wives cannot stand not knowing what's going on with their husbands. It might draw her back to you, but that is not a given. Both NMMNG and the 180 are for YOU, not her.


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## rumple9 (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm going thrpough exactly the same thing as OP - I love my partner so much


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

john1349 said:


> It's hard to say "get out" after 14 years of marriage, and being committing yourself to "death do us part".


I wouldn`t have a problem with it.

She`s already told you she wants out.
Why chain her there...let her go.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

john1349 said:


> I hear ya Conrad, but the kids don't see her bad behavior and until they do, the only way they would know about it is if I started telling them that mom doesn't love dad anymore and wants to try out other guys. She has said she doesn't feel in love right now with me, but hasn't been having an affair. Unless she were to admit to an affair or attempt to date others while being married living at home, how else do you get the kids to see that something is messed up?


So you would let her do that to prove your case to the kids?

John... trust me on this.

Kids take quite a bit "on" in a relationship. But, the idea that you would stand idly by while she walks out/on you?

Just so you wouldn't have to do something difficult?

When the reason she's doing this is because her "friend" complained how difficult it is to do while moved out?

C'mon.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

I appreciate all the advice and info. That's why I went on this website is to see what others have done in my situation and what worked/didn't work and to get some other opinions. Did the 180 program last 2 days and spent quality time the kids and had a good weekend. I know I can't let her run over me or start some affair while a part of this family. I will see how she responds to the 180 and what choices she makes now and move on one way or the other. 

Thanks again.


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

If she isn't having a full affair yet----she's thinking about it/planning one.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

I agree that an affair in going thru her head. She asked me if I would be happier to hear my wife was cheating on me or if I would rather be separated with her moving out and dating someone? She said that would be the inevitable outcome if we kept living like we are living now. In her mind, living together but apart, allows us to take care of the kids, keep them from having their worlds tipped upside down and give her the space to see if there is anything that could be done on her end to jolt her either back into the marriage or completely out.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

john1349 said:


> I agree that an affair in going thru her head. She asked me if I would be happier to hear my wife was cheating on me or if I would rather be separated with her moving out and dating someone? She said that would be the inevitable outcome if we kept living like we are living now. In her mind, living together but apart, allows us to take care of the kids, keep them from having their worlds tipped upside down and give her the space to see if there is anything that could be done on her end to jolt her either back into the marriage or completely out.


That's total bullshix on her part.

She's merely hoping you'll finance her leaving you.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

john1349 said:


> I hear ya Conrad, but the kids don't see her bad behavior and until they do, the only way they would know about it is if I started telling them that mom doesn't love dad anymore and wants to try out other guys. She has said she doesn't feel in love right now with me, but hasn't been having an affair. Unless she were to admit to an affair or attempt to date others while being married living at home, how else do you get the kids to see that something is messed up?


Sorry, but you are being willfully blind. Your kids know a lot more than you give them credit for. They may not know the details, but they know something is not right. Do you think they don't overhear the conversations you two have together, or her conversations on the telephone with her friends planning their nights out? What about conversations between your family members, or their friends or cousins asking questions because of stuff they heard their parents talking about? My three kids never hear the stuff I want them to, but always manage to catch the stuff I don't want them to hear. I would bet large sums of money that yours are the same.

And when they get older, they will put that information into perspective as they learn about how men and women interact. They will also incorporate what you taught them, through both word and action. So ask yourself if you want to teach your daughter that this is how she should treat her husband, or how she should let her husband treat her? Because if you put up with this, that is what you are doing.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

john1349 said:


> Thanks for info Spudster. That girl--I don't want her to walk all over me, I just want to show the kids that marriage is work and the goal is do everything you can to save the marriage rather than just quitting when times are tough or when you think you are tried enough or too much. We tell them to not to quit in school or sports, but then if we break up the marriage cuz someone doesn't feel in love, what are we showing them? If there is dating/affair stuff happening, then I agree that is the end of the line and you proceed with divorce, I just don't know if we are that point now.


What do you think she did on those four months away? She hung out with her friends, right? The one who is getting divorced for cheating on her husband, right? Do you think she just played solataire while that was happening?

One person does not make a marriage. It takes two. Your wife is not interested in the job right now, and there is nothing you can do to make her want it. You need to look out for yourself, because she plainly is not looking out for you. Doing the 180 is about that. It has the benefit of sometimes helping the marriage, but that is not the real purpose. The purpose is to emotionally detach and put yourself in a position to look out for you and the kids.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

so knowing where she is at now, do I do the 180 while she is living there or do I say she should move out and do the 180?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

john1349 said:


> so knowing where she is at now, do I do the 180 while she is living there or do I say she should move out and do the 180?


Tell her you are not ok with her dating while living with you.

If she initiates that behavior, she should move out.


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## john1349 (Jan 28, 2012)

sounds good. Thanks for the insight.


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