# Things WS did with AP



## badkarma2013

Many of you here know my story...my WW cheated with her Boss...After D-DAY he showed me pics of her doing things with him she had said for 22 years for our Marriage was (her words) SICK and Disgusting..but she did them with him....If you had met my WW before you would stand in disbelief as I and others were.did

I have never gotten a plausible answer from Her or Anyone that Really could give me a reason or cause for her doing these things... im sure things have been posted here in the past , i have maybe missed.

This post is not an Indictment of WWs...Also if you are or were a WW ...it would help me greatly with your input to help me and others try to just wrap my head around this phenomenon.

Many Thanks


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## GusPolinski

badkarma2013 said:


> Many of you here know my story...my WW cheated with her Boss...After D-DAY he showed me pics of her doing things with him she had said for 22 years for our Marriage was (her words) SICK and Disgusting..but she did them with him....If you had met my WW before you would stand in disbelief as I and others were.did
> 
> I have never gotten a plausible answer from Her or Anyone that Really could give me a reason or cause for her doing these things... im sure things have been posted here in the past , i have maybe missed.
> 
> This post is not an Indictment of WWs...Also if you are or were a WW ...it would help me greatly with your input to help me and others try to just wrap my head around this phenomenon.
> 
> Many Thanks


*HE* showed you the pics...?!? Did you ask to see them or was he bragging...?

Not sure I'd have been able to walk away from that w/o beating the sh*t out of him.


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## Clay2013

While I probably would be really upset with him and not sure how I would have dealt with that situation I sure as hell would not stay with her. That to me would be the nail in the coffin. 

Clay


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## badkarma2013

GusPolinski said:


> *HE* showed you the pics...?!? Did you ask to see them or was he bragging...?
> 
> Not sure I'd have been able to walk away from that w/o beating the sh*t out of him.


Lol Gus....I had outed him to his BW and threatened a multi million dollar lawsuit against their company, and got them both Fired....His wife DESTROYED him in the upcoming divorce...he lost everything as well as I.

That was his revenge for me napalming his life...so he napalmed mine.


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## bandit.45

Why are you still with her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Mahike's fWW did the same with her OM. He can explain it better than I can. 

It is a sort of a reverse Madonna Wh0re syndrome with female cheaters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevehowefan

badkarma2013 said:


> Lol Gus....I had outed him to his BW and threatened a multi million dollar lawsuit against their company, and got them both Fired....His wife DESTROYED him in the upcoming divorce...he lost everything as well as I.
> 
> That was his revenge for me napalming his life...so he napalmed mine.


How did you not...

Did he get kicked in...

You're a better man than I am. I don't normally talk crap, but dude, this one of those that I KNOW how I would've reacted. Aino question about it.


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## badkarma2013

bandit.45 said:


> Why are you still with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUO
> 
> 
> Sorry bandit should have made that clear....pulled a hard 180...gathered as much truth as i could stand and filed for D...
> 
> been final for a few months...thx


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## badkarma2013

stevehowefan said:


> How did you not...
> 
> Did he get kicked in...
> 
> You're a better man than I am. I don't normally talk crap, but dude, this one of those that I KNOW how I would've reacted. Aino question about it.


AS I have stated i was in my office...i had a letter opener in my hand...had he pulled this in the parking lot...i would be in prison...no kidding..


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## Clay2013

badkarma2013 said:


> bandit.45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you still with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUO
> 
> 
> Sorry bandit should have made that clear....pulled a hard 180...gathered as much truth as i could stand and filed for D...
> 
> been final for a few months...thx
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you.
Click to expand...


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## GusPolinski

badkarma2013 said:


> Lol Gus....I had outed him to his BW and threatened a multi million dollar lawsuit against their company, and got them both Fired....His wife DESTROYED him in the upcoming divorce...he lost everything *as well as I.*


Explain... How did you make out in the divorce?



badkarma2013 said:


> That was his revenge for me napalming his life...so he napalmed mine.


Well, in that case, I'd have thanked him. (If nothing else, that probably pretty much steeled your resolve w/ regard to divorce, right?)

And *then* I'd have beaten the unholy blue f*ck out of him.


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## badkarma2013

bandit.45 said:


> Mahike's fWW did the same with her OM. He can explain it better than I can.
> 
> It is a sort of a reverse Madonna Wh0re syndrome with female cheaters.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


bandit...could you see if he would talk with me Pvt Msg..thx


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## LongWalk

Did he give you the pictures?

If so, what did you do with them?


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## bandit.45

While she was your wife she was playing a role. She didn't want you to think she was a sexually adventurous trollop. With the OM she could live the fantasy and felt free to be the slvt she truly wanted to be. Just not with you. She had to maintain control on your marriage , so she doled you out just enough vanilla sex to keep you quiet. 

She's a manipulator. The same things that drove her to cheat also drove her to withhold the good sex from you. It's all connected. 

What did she say when she found out you saw the pics ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

*donning flame-proof suit*. I was the person who had an affair. And it did things with my two affair partners that I never did with my ex. But that's more because they weren't on her "allowed list" than anything else. 

On the flip side, I can see how someone would lower their barriers in extramarital sex (with regards to "dirty" or "taboo" acts). They're not worried about being judged by their partner, they are already doing something horribly wrong, so why not explore? Just like a prim and proper housewife won't let her husband go down on her because it's dirty, and she wants him to think of her as wholesome. Well, with an affair partner, that image is out the window before it even started, so...

Sorry, don't mean to trigger anyone. But since you asked for input from both sides...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore

I see that nobody has responded your question, but the answer is yes is pretty common, and it has been discussed many times why it happens, and there are mainly two reasons for what I have read, I am little busy but give me time and I will answer according of what I have read.


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## xakulax

I think there are a lot of factors that contribute to this but the main factor in my opinion is the Madonna–[email protected] complex where one categorizes there partner into two groups: ones they admire emotionally and ones they finds sexually attractive with the latter group one is willing to lower there sexual boundaries and do things they would never do with the former group as they don't see those acts as being respectable with in a marriage.


In essence the person view sex in two ways marital sex/vanilla sex and lustful sex where anything goes people like this are unable or unwilling to have both types of sex with one person.


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## badkarma2013

GusPolinski said:


> Explain... How did you make out in the divorce?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, in that case, I'd have thanked him. (If nothing else, that probably pretty much steeled your resolve w/ regard to divorce, right?)
> And *then* I'd have beaten the unholy blue f*ck out of him.


I knew at that second it was Over...no coming back from that Blow.. she did not fight me on anything...by the time the news of the lawsuit came out and they were fired ..i told her family...everyone ...she had no fight left....The OM wont speak to her...Life is Good


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## GusPolinski

manticore said:


> I see that nobody has responded your question, but the answer is yes is pretty common, and it has been discussed many times why it happens, and there are mainly two reasons for what I have read, I am little busy but give me time and I will answer according of what I have read.


I think you hit the "Submit Reply" button a bit too late...


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## bandit.45

badkarma2013 said:


> bandit...could you see if he would talk with me Pvt Msg..thx


Just PM him. Mahike's a cool dude. He'll talk with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

badkarma2013 said:


> I knew at that second it was Over...no coming back from that Blow.. she did not fight me on anything...by the time the news of the lawsuit came out and they were fired ..i told her family...everyone ...she had no fight left....The OM wont speak to her...Life is Good


Oh, OK. You mentioned that you'd "lost everything", so I wasn't sure what you meant by that. It boils my blood to no end to see a spouse commit infidelity and then make out like a bandit in the subsequent divorce.


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## badkarma2013

manticore said:


> I see that nobody has responded your question, but the answer is yes is pretty common, and it has been discussed many times why it happens, and there are mainly two reasons for what I have read, I am little busy but give me time and I will answer according of what I have read.


There are a Few people i trust here and you are one !

Please answer as best you can as thiis the one chapter i Cannot close....many thanks


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## Turin74

xakulax said:


> I think there are a lot of factors that contribute to this but the main factor in my opinion is the Madonna–[email protected] complex where one categorizes there partner into two groups: ones they admire emotionally and ones they finds sexually attractive with the latter group one is willing to lower there sexual boundaries and do things they would never do with the former group as they don't see those acts as being respectable with in a marriage.
> 
> 
> In essence the person view sex in two ways marital sex/vanilla sex and lustful sex where anything goes people like this are unable or unwilling to have both types of sex with one person.


Our perhaps they take their spouse for granted but seek to attract/keep the OM by any means possible...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## badkarma2013

GusPolinski said:


> Oh, OK. You mentioned that you'd "lost everything", so I wasn't sure what you meant by that. It boils my blood to no end to see a spouse commit infidelity and then make out like a bandit in the subsequent divorce.


Not material goods Gus..Just Life as i knew it.


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## badkarma2013

bandit.45 said:


> Just PM him. Mahike's a cool dude. He'll talk with you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank You Bandit


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## GusPolinski

badkarma2013 said:


> Not material goods Gus..Just Life as i knew it.


Understood. That's certainly bad enough, but it's good to know that you weren't taken to the cleaners to boot.


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## ThePheonix

Dawg you just have to understand that to women, what's sick and disgusting with one guy is hot and heavy with another. That's the way it works. The things you do with your next love may have been sick and disgusting with her previous squeeze. You won't ever figure it out.


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## badkarma2013

Will be offline a while...please any answers will help!

Thanks to all...will try to answer all when i return.


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## Machiavelli

badkarma2013 said:


> Many of you here know my story...my WW cheated with her Boss...After D-DAY he showed me pics of her doing things with him she had said for 22 years for our Marriage was (her words) SICK and Disgusting..but she did them with him....If you had met my WW before you would stand in disbelief as I and others were.did
> 
> I have never gotten a plausible answer from Her or Anyone that Really could give me a reason or cause for her doing these things... im sure things have been posted here in the past , i have maybe missed.





badkarma said:


> I asked my WW right before our divorce..How could you do this and Why.....Her response was...*I had a NEED i didnt know existed and he found it*....MUCH UGLIER at the time but you get the point....i asked WHY didnt you just tell me instead of all THE LIES DECEIT AND BETRYAL .....I didnt want to hurt you...OMFG ...BUT i think she wanted us both.


Five minutes of Alpha trumps five years of Beta. Had you stayed together, she'd still be denying you that same stuff. Women have an inner slvt that other women, AKA "society", try to shame into staying in the closet. When a woman has an affair, she's already outside of society, so has to let the inner slvt run wild, because this is her chance. She can never allow the father of her kids to know that she likes to have her backdoor plowed or a threesome, that's what APs are for. Kinky sex is part and parcel of affairs. It's what's for dinner, if the AP is alpha, and a guy who goes around banging married women looks very alpha to women, they have the urge to serve it up in big portions.


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## arbitrator

*Get your a$$ tested for STD's and get yourself to a lawyers office! You deserve far better! 

My God, badkarma, that is absolutely nasty!*


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## xakulax

Turin74 said:


> Our perhaps they take their spouse for granted but seek to attract/keep the OM by any means possible...
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_




Like I said there are many factors its possible it could be a variation both


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## bandit.45

I think it's a combination of all these things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

PBear said:


> *donning flame-proof suit*. I was the person who had an affair. And it did things with my two affair partners that I never did with my ex. But that's more because they weren't on her "allowed list" than anything else.
> 
> On the flip side, I can see how someone would lower their barriers in extramarital sex (with regards to "dirty" or "taboo" acts). They're not worried about being judged by their partner, they are already doing something horribly wrong, so why not explore? Just like a prim and proper housewife won't let her husband go down on her because it's dirty, and she wants him to think of her as wholesome. Well, with an affair partner, that image is out the window before it even started, so...
> 
> Sorry, don't mean to trigger anyone. But since you asked for input from both sides...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Having been here as long as PBear you saw this a lot in older thread when comments from waywards were more common. This was back in the day when 12 posts were a lot...now a days you see thousands.

I'm wired a little different, in my case I was the crappy husband getting all the dirty stuff (well lets say "taking" all the dirty stuff) while the OM was listening and caring and supportive.

Lets just say back in the day there wasn't much the OM was getting that I wasn't....beside my sloppy seconds.

I regress...the OM did get to listen to her complain about me were as I didn't.


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## Ripper

badkarma2013 said:


> I knew at that second it was Over...no coming back from that Blow.. she did not fight me on anything...by the time the news of the lawsuit came out and they were fired ..i told her family...everyone ...she had no fight left....The OM wont speak to her...Life is Good


Off topic, but had to highlight this.

Like a boss!


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## Horizon

My former WS thinks it's in the distant past. We are under the same roof and I'm doing my own thing, even though she is there as a reminder of what happened.

She thinks we are good for something down the line, that over time our LTR will evolve into something more genuine - her idea of reconciliation. Wrong.

What she did with the AP was apparently not radically outside our experiences but swallowing his seed on multiple occasions was enough for me to be in the same boat as you. Something I was denied. 

And really, who knows what else took place? They never tell the truth. No doubt quite a bit more. But even that doesn't bother me now. It's just the idea that I had been completely replaced - discarded but still needed as the hired help type thing. The safe pair of hands back home.

Who cares why? Even though I'm really curious about human motivation in the end the answer's never going to be satisfactory.


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## the guy

There is nothing satisfactory about this crap.

what they did, were they went, and why they did it.

There is never going to be a satisfactory answer when it come to getting betrayed.


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## xakulax

Horizon said:


> My former WS thinks it's in the distant past. We are under the same roof and I'm doing my own thing, even though she is there as a reminder of what happened.
> 
> She thinks we are good for something down the line, that over time our LTR will evolve into something more genuine - her idea of reconciliation. Wrong.
> 
> What she did with the AP was apparently not radically outside our experiences but swallowing his seed on multiple occasions was enough for me to be in the same boat as you. Something I was denied.
> 
> And really, who knows what else took place? *They never tell the truth. No doubt quite a bit more. *But even that doesn't bother me now. It's just the idea that I had been completely replaced - discarded but still needed as the hired help type thing. The safe pair of hands back home.
> 
> Who cares why? Even though I'm really curious about human motivation in the end the answer's never going to be satisfactory.




I posted this in another thread but it applies here the truth has expiration date in cases like these and it's my personal beliefs that many waywards not all but most Keep some aspects of their affairs with them to the grave the real question however is do they do it because they know it will damage there chances for staying together or to keep it as a fond memory


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## the guy

I think in its most simplest terms (if you can even use simple and infidelity in the same sentence) waywards have 2 lives.... the loving wife and someone they never wanted to be....a cheater!

The life of a wife that doesn't taker it up the butt and the second life of the naughty girl who loves it up the butt.

The trick is finding an old lady that can admit the second life to the husband in her 1st life.LOL

Thats my $0.02


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## the guy

xakulax said:


> I posted this in another thread but it applies here the truth has expiration date in cases like these and it's my personal beliefs that many waywards not all but most Keep some aspects of their affairs with them to the grave the real question however is do they do it because they know it will damage there chances for staying together or to keep it as a fond memory


A girls has to have her secrets

My old lady has told me a lot a sh1t about her second life...I mean a lot...I know I haven't heard it all


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## LongWalk

Women sometimes know they don't want to do certain things and then on another day with another guy they no longer know what they don't want to do.

During hysterical bonding I would think that if anal sex had been forbidden before the affair, WW might not have the courage to say no and she might be wiling because it was contributing to the love bank to get BH to accept her back.


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## the guy

Turin74 said:


> Our perhaps they take their spouse for granted but seek to attract/keep the OM by any means possible...
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


:iagree:
I have read this one also...

After 4 years here at TAM I have read a few thing on this very subject and PBears and Turin74 replies seem to be the common response when it comes to this very subject.


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## xakulax

LongWalk said:


> Women sometimes know they don't want to do certain things and then on another day with another guy they no longer know what they don't want to do.
> 
> During hysterical bonding I would think that if anal sex had been forbidden before the affair, WW might not have the courage to say no and she might be wiling because it was *contributing to the love bank to get BH to accept her back*.




True lust and desperation can be one hell of a motivator for many wayward trying to F there way back to there BS harts.


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## the guy

longwalk said:


> women sometimes know they don't want to do certain things and then on another day with another guy they no longer know what they don't want to do.
> 
> During hysterical bonding i would think that if anal sex had been forbidden before the affair, ww might not have the courage to say no and she might be wiling because it was contributing to the love bank to get bh to accept her back.


well ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!:d


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## the guy

xakulax said:


> True lust and desperation can be one hell of a motivator for many wayward trying to F there way back to there BS harts.


I've read one or two threads were the poor betrayed still wasn't getting laid during the R.

Now that would suck...there is no way I could R with out the HB and the crap I did to WW in the basement.


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## bandit.45

I love nasty basement sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Racer

Well, it may be delusional, but what helps me cope with those ideas. I was her husband. As such, she knew she needed to maintain a certain image to me. So, if she’s ‘given it up’ like that, she would probably have a reasonable fear that for the rest of her life, I’d expect those ‘specials’ every now and again. She didn’t want me to see her “that way”. 

The OM didn’t matter as much. She knew she wasn’t leaving me for him. She knew it couldn’t last. So she didn’t have to worry about setting an expectation she didn’t want to live with ‘forever’.

This is completely based on knowing that somehow, for her, the ‘rules in bed’ changed significantly when she got the title “Mrs.”. Dating was a different story and impression. She dated the OM, and is married to me….. so it is different in her head. Things she did for me before we got married I wouldn’t stand a chance of seeing now or even a glimpse of.


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## bandit.45

And I would say to her "okay then. See ya !"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion

badkarma2013 said:


> Many of you here know my story...my WW cheated with her Boss...After D-DAY he showed me pics of her doing things with him she had said for 22 years for our Marriage was (her words) SICK and Disgusting..but she did them with him....If you had met my WW before you would stand in disbelief as I and others were.did
> 
> I have never gotten a plausible answer from Her or Anyone that Really could give me a reason or cause for her doing these things... im sure things have been posted here in the past , i have maybe missed.
> 
> This post is not an Indictment of WWs...Also if you are or were a WW ...it would help me greatly with your input to help me and others try to just wrap my head around this phenomenon.
> 
> Many Thanks


I can only imagine. It's not even just being cheated on, but not being good enough to do those select sex acts with you that was done with the AP.


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## mahike

I just sent him a PM. Bandit, I required a complete revamp of our sexual limits and we did that in front of our MC.


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## bandit.45

mahike said:


> I just sent him a PM. Bandit, I required a complete revamp of our sexual limits and we did that in front of our MC.


I've always admired you R with her. I could not have done it. No way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mahike

the guy said:


> I've read one or two threads were the poor betrayed still wasn't getting laid during the R.
> 
> Now that would suck...there is no way I could R with out the HB and the crap I did to WW in the basement.


She had an affair and she did not want to have sex with me and wanted to R. I am an fool but not that big of a fool.


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## treyvion

mahike said:


> She had an affair and she did not want to have sex with me and wanted to R. I am an fool but not that big of a fool.


Right, levels of magnatude of being a "fool". When they pose these suggestinos it makes perfect sense to them.


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## mahike

bandit.45 said:


> I've always admired you R with her. I could not have done it. No way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It has been a hard road It took a long time before I could lay it down. She really felt horrible about who she had become and she still talks with me about the amount of pain I have endured. She says Hollywood makes it seem so cool so no big deal. 

I figured we spent about 5k for MC and IC and that was after my insurance picked up a great deal of it.

I am not sure I shared this before but I burned all the pictures, emails and records I had about the PA awhile back. That was a big step for me.

I am a fan of R but the WS really has to work hard or I would have walked


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## the guy

mahike said:


> She had an affair and she did not want to have sex with me and wanted to R. I am an fool but not that big of a fool.


I was just stating my opinion.....
It sounds like I offended you or you took my reply as a direct comment to you.
This is not the case at all, me and Mrs the guy always liked to have sex and we both believe it is the glue that holds *our* marriage together.

At the end of the day all folk have a different way of doing there own thing.

I meant no disrespect


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## the guy

I torched my old ladies call logs.

I still have put my ring on!

Sorry for the thread jack

manhike hit a nerve


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## wranglerman

My ex told me once about the gym membership.

Basically, she put it that I was her husband and she was my wife, her multiple affairs at the gym ranged from one on ones, groups with upto 7 guys, BJs, anal, DP and one in her mouth, I got, missionary once a month if I was lucky while she played little miss porn queen, she said there was always the element of control and the inner desire to be out of control, I couldn't meet her inner desired needs.

Her infidelities meant she was unable to meet my needs also, the need for a faithful wife.


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## the guy

I'm blameshifting my threadjacking on manhike


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## xakulax

wranglerman said:


> My ex told me once about the gym membership.
> 
> Basically, she put it that I was her husband and she was my wife, her multiple affairs *at the gym ranged from one on ones, groups with upto 7 guys, BJs, anal, DP and one in her mouth*, I got, missionary once a month if I was lucky while she played little miss porn queen, she said there was always the element of control and the inner desire to be out of control, I couldn't meet her inner desired needs.
> 
> Her infidelities meant she was unable to meet my needs also, the need for a faithful wife.


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## stevehowefan

wranglerman said:


> My ex told me once about the gym membership.
> 
> *Basically, she put it that I was her husband and she was my wife, her multiple affairs at the gym ranged from one on ones, groups with upto 7 guys, BJs, anal, DP and one in her mouth, I got, missionary once a month if I was lucky while she played little miss porn queen, she said there was always the element of control and the inner desire to be out of control, I couldn't meet her inner desired needs.*
> 
> Her infidelities meant she was unable to meet my needs also, the need for a faithful wife.



That's the most horrible thing I've read on here. Wow.


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## LongWalk

What sort sex a couple in R have is tricky business. RoadScholar does not believe he is getting the crazy slvtty sex that his fWW had with OM. But exactly what the gap cannot really be known. It is his gut feeling. She denied him sex for 5 months of false R, so the restoration of their sex life is not bad.

HardtoDetach always had great sex with his WW. She had sex with him on a cruise before their impending divorce. So she was cheating on OM and eventually this cheating helped to destroy that relationship. So HTD is in a uncertain R. The sex part is good. Her psychological issues were the obstacle to certain R.

I guess the minimum a BS would expect is sex that was as good as the good sex of the past had been.


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## wranglerman

stevehowefan said:


> That's the most horrible thing I've read on here. Wow.


I found peace within over it all, I lost a year of my life coming back from the brink it pushed me to.

I just never figured current W would allow her EA knowing how fked up I was from my first marriage.

lucky me hey, had one WW who was full on PA with multiple partners and the other had an EA with HSex, wonder if I'll ever learn


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## xakulax

Everyone's opinions thus far is further validating my belief on why its just better to walk away and D otherwise you will constantly have to deal with the specter of OM in your head/bedroom telling you nah bro she likes it this way no way in hell am I going threw that much bull [email protected]#$t


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## lenzi

wranglerman said:


> lucky me hey, had one WW who was full on PA with multiple partners and the other had an EA with HSex, wonder if I'll ever learn


You never know what another person may do.

That doesn't mean you need to hide under a rock and never have another relationship.

That much being said..

*Stop marrying them.*


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## bandit.45

wranglerman said:


> I found peace within over it all, I lost a year of my life coming back from the brink it pushed me to.
> 
> I just never figured current W would allow her EA knowing how fked up I was from my first marriage.
> 
> lucky me hey, had one WW who was full on PA with multiple partners and the other had an EA with HSex, wonder if I'll ever learn


Well apparently you didn't learn. LOL! I would have sh!tcanned her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wranglerman

xakulax said:


> Everyone's opinions thus far is further validating my belief on why its just better to walk away and D otherwise you will constantly have to deal with the specter of OM in your head/bedroom telling you nah bro she likes it this way no way in hell am I going threw that much bull [email protected]#$t


Probably why PA is instant "get the fvck out of my life" for me, but I find EAs more emotionally damaging to ones self esteem, but never the less damaging.


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## bandit.45

xakulax said:


> Everyone's opinions thus far is further validating my belief on why its just better to walk away and D otherwise you will constantly have to deal with the specter of OM in your head/bedroom telling you nah bro she likes it this way no way in hell am I going threw that much bull [email protected]#$t


In my opinion D should be the norm. R should only occur when the WS is so mortified and remorseful that they would move heaven and earth, and yes... do whatever they have to do sexually to earn their BS back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

@ wranglerman, you mentioned 2 things that my old lady tottaly denies....the all at once thing
Mrs. the guy stands by being a one at a time girl. All the crap my old lady told me I'm still waiting for the TT about the GB something tells me thats one of those little secret she will take to he grave.

I mean after all the other crap she did with OM's I still think there was at least one time she was a all at once kind of girl.

I mean really...if you have the ball to tell the OM "your friend can watch" don't you guys think it went furture?

I mean if you go to a sex club with your stripper friends...I mean doesn't that say it all?

I mean if you can screw your husband in front of friends, one would think you could screw a punch of guys all at once? I'm just saying


----------



## the guy

@ wranglerman, you mentioned 2 things that my old lady tottaly denies....the all at once thing
Mrs. the guy stands by being a one at a time girl. All the crap my old lady told me I'm still waiting for the TT about the GB something tells me thats one of those little secret she will take to he grave.

I mean after all the other crap she did with OM's I still think there was at least one time she was a all at once kind of girl.

I mean really...if you have the ball to tell the OM "your friend can watch" don't you guys think it went furture?

I mean if you go to a sex club with your stripper friends...I mean doesn't that say it all?

I mean if you can screw your husband in front of friends, one would think you could screw a punch of guys all at once? I'm just saying


----------



## treyvion

wranglerman said:


> My ex told me once about the gym membership.
> 
> Basically, she put it that I was her husband and she was my wife, her multiple affairs at the gym ranged from one on ones, groups with upto 7 guys, BJs, anal, DP and one in her mouth, I got, missionary once a month if I was lucky while she played little miss porn queen, she said there was always the element of control and the inner desire to be out of control, I couldn't meet her inner desired needs.
> 
> Her infidelities meant she was unable to meet my needs also, the need for a faithful wife.


She must've been a powerful compartamentalizer for her to frame the others as worthy for the acts and to keep you in that little tiny box for sex. Must have crushed your self esteem. The stories probably never stopped coming, just when you thought you heard enough there was another.


----------



## the guy

xakulax said:


> Everyone's opinions thus far is further validating my belief on why its just better to walk away and D otherwise you will constantly have to deal with the specter of OM in your head/bedroom telling you nah bro she likes it this way no way in hell am I going threw that much bull [email protected]#$t


but on the other side of the coin....." I have to put up with this small penis...nutless wonder just so I have some one that listens to me.
See in my case it wasn't the sex it was some swinging penis that would listen and support her...hell Mrs. the guy got plenty of sex from me if she liked it or not.

In my head its some sensitive OM being all so sweet while her gets my sloppy seconds.

I guess I'm wired different then most.


Anyway guys... I'm a hell of alot better emotionally now then 20 years ago. Now its about respect and meeting each others needs....and the basement....ya thats one of both our needs.


----------



## xakulax

the guy said:


> but on the other side of the coin....." I have to put up with this small penis...nutless wonder just so I have some one that listens to me.
> See in my case it wasn't the sex it was some swinging penis that would listen and support her...hell Mrs. the guy got plenty of sex from me if she liked it or not.
> 
> In my head its some sensitive OM being all so sweet while her gets my sloppy seconds.
> 
> I guess I'm wired different then most.
> 
> 
> Anyway guys... I'm a hell of alot better emotionally now then 20 years ago. Now its about respect and meeting each others needs....a*nd the basement....ya thats one of both our needs.*




OK what the hell is in that basement chains, whips, ball gag a midget???


----------



## Machiavelli

bandit.45 said:


> In my opinion D should be the norm. R should only occur when the WS is so mortified and remorseful that they would move heaven and earth, and yes... do whatever they have to do sexually to earn their BS back.


All that and kids have to be involved. No kids? ¡Adios muchacha!


----------



## the guy

xakulax said:


> OK what the hell is in that basement chains, whips, ball gag a midget???


My office......a plan table, several racks to store blueprints, and a desk, couch......AND CRAWL SPACE.

Seriously, there was a huge degree of submission from my old lady, but we gave the gear way a long time ago. During our HB period I was in my office trying to keep my business together and figure out what to do with my old lady....so I was in my office alot and Mrs. the guy would come down there and work on saving her @ss from getting thrown out.

Actually sh1t got out of hand and we throw away all the bondage crap when the kids started going to school. Now we use crap laying around the house.

At the end of the day a wayward has to compartalize their two lives.. be it being treated like a wh0re by a husband and finding male companionship that is sensitive/sweet or the other way around. a stampford wife banging a junky.

If you cant get a need met you will find it else were...what makes the good guys different then the bad guys is the bad guys phucking lie about it and decieve the one person that should be meeting that need.


----------



## MattMatt

Racer said:


> Well, it may be delusional, but what helps me cope with those ideas. I was her husband. As such, she knew she needed to maintain a certain image to me. So, if she’s ‘given it up’ like that, she would probably have a reasonable fear that for the rest of her life, I’d expect those ‘specials’ every now and again. She didn’t want me to see her “that way”.
> 
> The OM didn’t matter as much. She knew she wasn’t leaving me for him. She knew it couldn’t last. So she didn’t have to worry about setting an expectation she didn’t want to live with ‘forever’.
> 
> This is completely based on knowing that somehow, for her, the ‘rules in bed’ changed significantly when she got the title “Mrs.”. Dating was a different story and impression. She dated the OM, and is married to me….. so it is different in her head. Things she did for me before we got married I wouldn’t stand a chance of seeing now or even a glimpse of.





> "How are men like carpet tiles?If you lay them properly the first time around, you can walk all over them for the rest of your life"


----------



## the guy

Machiavelli said:


> All that and kids have to be involved. No kids? ¡Adios muchacha!


IDK. with the right belly warmer, even with out kids, it might be worth making some sort of commitment.

But then again you can always get another belly warmer.


----------



## the guy

the guy said:


> IDK. with the right belly warmer, even with out kids, it might be worth making some sort of commitment.
> 
> But then again you can always get another belly warmer.


Man that was so wrong.
I thinks its time to eat dinner


----------



## BURNT KEP

Machiavelli said:


> All that and kids have to be involved. No kids? ¡Adios muchacha!


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

I can't agree more if I did not have kids I would have been gone the second I knew it went physical.


----------



## harrybrown

OP-

did your ex ever tell you why?


----------



## manticore

GusPolinski said:


> I think you hit the "Submit Reply" button a bit too late...


A little bit



badkarma2013 said:


> There are a Few people i trust here and you are one !
> 
> Please answer as best you can as thiis the one chapter i Cannot close....many thanks


thanks for the vote of confidence.

the two main reasons have already been mentioned here but I will answer anyway.

- *the one related to the WW*, the Inner slvt (as machiavelli wrote) or Maddona-wh0re complex, where they Compartmentalize and act as a different person who is having the affair and do whatever the good wife and mom would not do and is not supposed to want to do (after all good women worth of having a family with are not supposed to have sex in the first date, have twisted seXual phantasies or be crazy in bed)

there is a user here on TAM (sorry I don't remeber his user name, I lost all the links I had in my old laptop, but he still posted the clousure of his case last year) whose wife actively looked for affairs in AM and as part of the encounters she put as conditon to swallow the OMs seed (act that she never did for her husband).

I personally think that this Maddona-wh0re complex bahaviour (and many users may disagree with me here) is something that is no exclusive of woman in affairs but is a human trait that persons show once that they destroy social norms, a kind of mentallity *"as if they are already doing something wrong why not do it all the way is not as if it gonna get any worst"* when you already crossed certain boundary (or destroyed certain social norm) there is nothing holding you regarding the boundary you crossed *"affairs, corruption, theft,"* which for me explain how some WW go from 20 years of loyal wife to half docen of OMs in less than a year. 

As example this coduct also appears in OMs, as broken erick's and almostrecovered's OM, they shared and performed they sexual phantasy of being penetrated by strapons with these users WWs but when they (the TAM users) informed the OMW's wives neither of them knew that their POS husbands had this kind of phantasy.

- *the one related with the OM*, competency, in this case is about of having the OM more interested in them than in other potencial of formal partners, meaning that if the OM is single they have to seem more appeling that the single ladies they can get without kids or bagage, and if the OM is married the WW have to give something to mantein the OM hooked in comparation of his wife and this many times implies the sexual acts that the OM's wives are not willing to perform.

there is a FWW in in love shack with the user name "compulsive dancer" she has been very honest about her situation, and she at one point opened a thread about this particular topic *"why WW are prone to do sexual acts that they don't even like"* (something like that) in her case was anal sex, in all her years of marriage she just had anal sex with her husband twice (saying that she did no enjoyed it) and in the 5 months she had the affair she had anal sex around 4 times, shile she never said it directly, reading the thread you could conclude that it was to please the OM, as she exlpained that many times she felt jelousy of her formal GF and wanted to be priority to the OM (even whe she never intended to leave her husband), unfortunatly she deleted that specific thread because it become a circus of insults and negative comments for the triggering topic that the thread touched, you can still see that this subject is metioned in many of her old posts but the main thread was deleted.

but badkarma, you have to understand that even with all this explanation and analysis, those acts she performed are not implication of your person in anyway, what I mean is that it does not reflect that the OM is superior to you or more man than you, is a reflection of the poor judgment of your WW, of all the cases I have read where the WWs pleased the OMs with this kind of acts I don't remember one in which the OM have actually tried to have a relationship with the WW after the DD all of them have throw them like garbage.

the only thing that I don't agree with other users here is that not just alpha types are the one who play this women for fool to have this kind of acts, wimpy crying needy POSOMS (as RDMU POSOM) or friending 101 POSOMS (as "findingmyway") also do it.

To be honest with you anyone can become a cheap player (as weighlifter have said it) with some basic strategies that you come to understand when you began to learn how the mechanics works, anyone can get a married woman doing this kind acts for him, the difference is that we are not POS that will end alone, divorced and despised by everyone around of us, because we use the knowladge to detect red flags, improve our realtionships and prevent any possible threat, not to mess with other people's lives.


----------



## xakulax

harrybrown said:


> OP-
> 
> did your ex ever tell you why?



I'm willing to bet it had something to do with lack of communication that's a typical wayward stand by.


----------



## xakulax

manticore said:


> there is a FWW in in love shack with the user name "compulsive dancer" she has been very honest about her situation, and she at one point opened a thread about this particular topic *"why WW are prone to do sexual acts that they don't even like"* (something like that) in her case was anal sex, in all her years of marriage she just had anal sex with her husband twice (saying that she did no enjoyed it) and in the 5 months she had the affair she had anal sex around 4 times, shile she never said it directly, reading the thread you could conclude that it was to please the OM, as she exlpained that many times she felt jelousy of her formal GF and wanted to be priority to the OM (even whe she never intended to leave her husband), unfortunatly *she deleted that specific thread because it become a circus of insults and negative comments *for the triggering topic that the thread touched, you can still see that this subject is metioned in many of her old posts but the main thread was deleted.




LOL some those negative comments where from me


----------



## russell28

BURNT KEP said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> I can't agree more if I did not have kids I would have been gone the second I knew it went physical.


Kids change everything.. When I told the OM's girlfriend about her loser boyfriend, I made sure I pointed out that they had no children, and weren't married, that she should run like hell and don't look back. You'll never have to see them at an event, or see a reminder in the face of your children.


----------



## ThePheonix

Remember guys, you are often dealing with a being that can give a bear back blow jobs and swallow time and time again but insist her mate wear a rubber for PIV sex. Does that make sense?


----------



## barbados

ThePheonix said:


> Remember guys, you are often dealing with a being that can give a bear back blow jobs and swallow time and time again but insist her mate wear a rubber for PIV sex. Does that make sense?



OUCH ! Pheonix. I hope that is just an example and not something you personally experienced.


----------



## lordmayhem

All the kinky, nasty, porno sex is part of the dynamics of the affair. The secrecy, the planning, the hiding, the anticipation, the excitement, etc, all make the affair sex so hot. So hot, that there are no long any limits. They will shag anywhere, and everywhere they can, and make use of every opportunity. 

Yet when caught, who do you read here?

"They just made out"

:liar:

Anyway, this type of thread pops up every so often. WH's do the same thing. They do things with their OW that they would never do for their wife.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/35927-she-he-did-things-him-her.html


----------



## manticore

manticore said:


> there is a user here on TAM (sorry I don't remeber his user name, I lost all the links I had in my old laptop, but he still posted the clousure of his case last year) whose wife actively looked for affairs in AM and as part of the encounters she put as conditon to swallow the OMs seed (act that she never did for her husband).


I think his user name is forlorn99


----------



## murphy5

I am not doubting the explanation....the AP goes over the moral line in the affair, and after that it is "what the heck, in for a penny, in for a pound".

But it seems if THAT is what the AP wants....the most depraved and filthy sex possible....then it would also seem that if their BS just pushed hard for very kinky sex, that the affair could be prevented. It seems counterintuitive, but from that logic, if your sex is dwindling, and your partner is showing signs of an EA, then the nastiest anal, bdsm, etc just might save the marriage? You knock her mind out of this *****-Madonna thought pattern, and let her see she can be both a loving wife by day, and a **** in the bedroom _with her husband_ by night.

So by that logic, the spouse should demand kinky sex. what am I missing?


----------



## BURNT KEP

russell28 said:


> Kids change everything.. When I told the OM's girlfriend about her loser boyfriend, I made sure I pointed out that they had no children, and weren't married, that she should run like hell and don't look back. You'll never have to see them at an event, or see a reminder in the face of your children.


Or make sure they have enough money to survive. If I had a job I could support two households I would be gone.


----------



## russell28

BURNT KEP said:


> Or make sure they have enough money to survive. If I had a job I could support two households I would be gone.


Another good point.. in this scenario the girlfriend was the bread winner, she probably made 4x what her loser boyfriend was taking in (judging from career/job). Last I checked they were living in different places, he's living with his 84 year old mother now.

I had been with my wife so long, we've done it all.. so I didn't have to deal with any of the 'she wouldn't go there' stuff, but I do have to deal with the fact that she would go there with someone else.


----------



## sirdano

Do I care or want to know. NOPE.

To me it was just sex they had. We had done everything I can think of before she had the affair. So if anything he missed out on something. They only meet twice.


----------



## wranglerman

murphy5 said:


> I am not doubting the explanation....the AP goes over the moral line in the affair, and after that it is "what the heck, in for a penny, in for a pound".
> 
> But it seems if THAT is what the AP wants....the most depraved and filthy sex possible....then it would also seem that if their BS just pushed hard for very kinky sex, that the affair could be prevented. It seems counterintuitive, but from that logic, if your sex is dwindling, and your partner is showing signs of an EA, then the nastiest anal, bdsm, etc just might save the marriage? You knock her mind out of this *****-Madonna thought pattern, and let her see she can be both a loving wife by day, and a **** in the bedroom _with her husband_ by night.
> 
> So by that logic, the spouse should demand kinky sex. what am I missing?


I kind of agree but also know that there is more to it than that.

You are missing the chemical and emotional highs in them, it is almost like falling in love again for those in EAs, they are connecting on some totally secret fantasy level where fluffy bunnies are encouraging their contact, but for some there is the level of physical need to be dominated and to be abused or indeed vise versa.

My ex had zero choice but to talk and own up, after all, she was caught on cctv footage no less than 36 times engaging in carnal acts with other men, if you have ever watched gang bang porn it really was like that, the most horrific thing I actually saw was her swallowing two guys at the same time and the time and date stamp on the video was when she was too sick to be on a long weekend with me and the kids with their god parents.

This is how I dealt with it all, I just let go and see those videos as porn with a stranger who happened to look like my W, I had no idea who she was, now, I couldn't give a fvck.


----------



## badkarma2013

Posted my manticore.....I personally think that this Maddona-wh0re complex bahaviour (and many users may disagree with me here) is something that is no exclusive of woman in affairs but is a human trait that persons show once that they destroy social norms, a kind of mentallity "as if they are already doing something wrong why not do it all the way is not as if it gonna get any worst" when you already crossed certain boundary (or destroyed certain social norm) there is nothing holding you regarding the boundary you crossed "affairs, corruption, theft," which for me explain how some WW go from 20 years of loyal wife to half docen of OMs in less than a year. 


I truly believe this....a dear friend called me last night and this subject came up ( as I am obviously struggling with it)...His words were to me " Its like jumping out of a plane....once you have Jumped it does not matter what you do on the way down...you have already Committed yourself...just enjoy it...and try to land safely ....and live to do it again another day...

To me ...She had already made the decision to jump from the plane ...if you will...and after that all boundaries were Broken....EVEN HER own thoughts and implied beliefs were GONE the second she decided to have the A with her Boss.

I guess i just ..in some weird way I wanted it to be more complex than that...as the aftermath was no less than Scorched Earth for two families...


----------



## convert

wranglerman said:


> I kind of agree but also know that there is more to it than that.
> 
> You are missing the chemical and emotional highs in them, it is almost like falling in love again for those in EAs, they are connecting on some totally secret fantasy level where fluffy bunnies are encouraging their contact, but for some there is the level of physical need to be dominated and to be abused or indeed vise versa.
> 
> My ex had zero choice but to talk and own up, after all, she was caught on cctv footage no less than 36 times engaging in carnal acts with other men, if you have ever watched gang bang porn it really was like that, the most horrific thing I actually saw was her swallowing two guys at the same time and the time and date stamp on the video was when she was too sick to be on a long weekend with me and the kids with their god parents.
> 
> This is how I dealt with it all, I just let go and see those videos as porn with a stranger who happened to look like my W, I had no idea who she was, now, I couldn't give a fvck.



Wranglerman, I remember when you showed her the tape(s) she threw you out of the house.
I can not imagine how i would have handled seeing those tapes
who gave you the footage?
and we probably can assume that they are still out there or not?
good god I hope the kids never see them.
I often wonder what some of these ww look like (i know it does not matter) I know what my ww looks like


----------



## xakulax

badkarma2013 said:


> Posted my manticore.....I personally think that this Maddona-wh0re complex bahaviour (and many users may disagree with me here) is something that is no exclusive of woman in affairs but is a human trait that persons show once that they destroy social norms, a kind of mentallity "as if they are already doing something wrong why not do it all the way is not as if it gonna get any worst" when you already crossed certain boundary (or destroyed certain social norm) there is nothing holding you regarding the boundary you crossed "affairs, corruption, theft," which for me explain how some WW go from 20 years of loyal wife to half docen of OMs in less than a year.
> 
> 
> I truly believe this....a dear friend called me last night and this subject came up ( as I am obviously struggling with it)...His words were to me " Its like jumping out of a plane....once you have Jumped it does not matter what you do on the way down...you have already Committed yourself...just enjoy it...and try to land safely ....and live to do it again another day...
> 
> To me ...She had already made the decision to jump from the plane ...if you will...and after that all boundaries were Broken....EVEN HER own thoughts and implied beliefs were GONE the second she decided to have the A with her Boss.
> 
> I guess i just ..*in some weird way I wanted it to be more complex than that.*..as the aftermath was no less than Scorched Earth for two families...




Sometimes the most seemingly complex problems have simplest answers some people are just trash wrapped in human skin.


----------



## Squeakr

badkarma2013 said:


> Posted my manticore.....I personally think that this Maddona-wh0re complex bahaviour (and many users may disagree with me here) is something that is no exclusive of woman in affairs but is a human trait that persons show once that they destroy social norms, a kind of mentallity "as if they are already doing something wrong why not do it all the way is not as if it gonna get any worst" when you already crossed certain boundary (or destroyed certain social norm) there is nothing holding you regarding the boundary you crossed "affairs, corruption, theft," which for me explain how some WW go from 20 years of loyal wife to half docen of OMs in less than a year.
> 
> 
> I truly believe this....a dear friend called me last night and this subject came up ( as I am obviously struggling with it)...His words were to me " Its like jumping out of a plane....once you have Jumped it does not matter what you do on the way down...you have already Committed yourself...just enjoy it...and try to land safely ....and live to do it again another day...
> 
> To me ...She had already made the decision to jump from the plane ...if you will...and after that all boundaries were Broken....EVEN HER own thoughts and implied beliefs were GONE the second she decided to have the A with her Boss.
> 
> I guess i just ..in some weird way I wanted it to be more complex than that...as the aftermath was no less than Scorched Earth for two families...


Except that with most major boundary crossings their is not a very negative social stigma, as they are just that boundaries that you set up, whereas the ideal of social perception between wh0re and model wife/mother is something that isn't necessarily tied to social norms and stigmas but perceptions from others (and they are the ones that create that perception).


----------



## badkarma2013

Squeakr said:


> Except that with most major boundary crossings their is not a very negative social stigma, as they are just that boundaries that you set up, whereas the ideal of social perception between wh0re and model wife/mother is something that isn't necessarily tied to social norms and stigmas but perceptions from others (and they are the ones that create that perception).



Squeakr...you are obviously a learned individual ....pls give me the version of your quote for Dummies...
thx


----------



## Marduk

Holy crap wrangler I'm so sorry.

One thing I learned is that women are very, very contextual.

A pris that won't let her husband touch her will go out with her girlfriends half naked and grind on the dance floor... because of the context of "just having fun."

I try very, very hard now to be aware of the context I put my wife in. At least once a week I try to put her in the "anything goes" context... be that taking her out on a date night somewhere crazy, or a sex shop, or just flat out being goofy or pushing the boundaries in the bedroom.

If I'm not going to put myself out there she's not either. And maybe for some women this bottles them up and the pressure is going to come out somewhere...

NOT saying it's the guy's fault if the women strays... but like I say to my wife occasionally... I want to have an affair with her, but treat her like my mistress, not like my wife and mother of my children.


----------



## FLman

I always believed, even in my early years, if I had a stupid breakup with a GF, I would be done. Love/Relationship is like vase, once broken, no amount of glue will repair it, it will always stay damaged, involve kids and that is heart breaking!


----------



## Squeakr

When one crosses a boundary, that boundary is generally that which they have set for themselves and agreed is how they want to live their lives. It is not necessarily something that society deems as necessary and judges their actions as good or evil based upon them. If you are highly religious you set these boundaries based upon those ideals and teachings and those you have learned from your family and peers. 

Just because in your mind and environment it is accepted doesn't make it immoral or illegal in society. It is just a standard that we live our lives based upon. The ideal of whether one is a wh0re or model wife/mother is not strictly based upon social norms or standards, as other countries where sexual activity is more open and discussed, the societal perceptions aren't the same, so one's perception in this case is what drives their actions and assessments and not whether there is an actual component of right and wrong at play.


----------



## wranglerman

convert said:


> Wranglerman, I remember when you showed her the tape(s) she threw you out of the house.
> I can not imagine how i would have handled seeing those tapes
> who gave you the footage?
> and we probably can assume that they are still out there or not?
> good god I hope the kids never see them.
> I often wonder what some of these ww look like (i know it does not matter) I know what my ww looks like


The footage was given by a girl I knew who was working there as security, her male colleagues watched my ex getting banged weekly for over 6mnths and had their own video library of it in the bottom of the filing cabinet, she unknowingly swapped duty with her co-worker and saw it going on and contacted a colleague to discuss policy on this behavior, bit of an interesting conflict there within the team but once she actually realized it was my W she contacted me about what she had seen but then also presented the guys little porn stash of my W, all I will say on them is that they thought they had saved some live porn to giggle over but they saved me from wasting the rest of my life, bless them, they even used the pan and zoom functions to good effect 

Like I say, truth is so much stranger than fiction!

Really got dropped on my head that day, I was a long time recovering.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I always had an issue processing these types of threads. Unless you and your spouse committed to being virgins prior to marriage AND there are young children involved, I could not imagine reconciling with someone who would give their sexual energy to an AP yet would give you the barest of vanilla sex.

I'm far from experienced from a partner standpoint - I only had 2 partners my entire life - but I made sure that I was sexually compatible with both before maintaining a serious relationship. I can understand a situation where you and your spouse had a rewarding sex life with variety before kids, went the vanilla route and then one spouse cheats and engages in an affair with more variety. As much as it would suck, I can at least understand that two people can get stuck in a rut due to the stress of everyday living. I could see where the fantasy comes into play and a cheater feels free to engage in sex unencumbered with an AP yet feel the crushing weight of reality where the cheater and the BS have to deal with the messy details of real life. 

What I don't understand is when people willingly marry a person who was not sexually compatible with him/her from day one, and that person later has an affair where he/she has a sexual awakening. It would cut me to the core if 1) she could never be uninhibited with me EVER and 2) I was not "man" enough to unlock her sexuality, but she's now willing to do these things for me after an OM broke her in for me.


----------



## manticore

wranglerman said:


> Like I say, truth is so much stranger than fiction!
> 
> Really got dropped on my head that day, I was a long time recovering.



Wow, sometimes is it, and how did she managed all the fall out of that?, I am guessing that after confrontation and divorce the rumor spread as fire with gas, in fact I am amazed that she found someone in her community willing to be her Bf/spouse after that.


----------



## WhiteRaven

manticore said:


> Wow, sometimes is it, and how did she managed all the fall out of that?, I am guessing that after confrontation and divorce the rumor spread as fire with gas, in fact I am amazed that she found someone in her community willing to be her Bf/spouse after that.


Whenever you think you're dumb, someone would come and make you look like an Einstein by showcasing their sheer stupidity. Too many doormats in the 21st century, bro.


----------



## Machiavelli

manticore said:


> To be honest with you *anyone can become a cheap player (as weighlifter have said it) with some basic strategies that you come to understand when you began to learn how the mechanics works, anyone can get a married woman doing this kind acts for him,* the difference is that we are not POS that will end alone, divorced and despised by everyone around of us, because we use the knowladge to detect red flags, improve our realtionships and prevent any possible threat, not to mess with other people's lives.


The whole essence of game is to give relatively unattractive men the understanding of how to say "open sesame." My married female clients get hit on all day, every day, by men of all ages. Who does this with married women? POS, that's who. The successful ones are those who can fake Alpha at the right moment. However, in the OPs case, the POSOM was in a position of authority and in the eyes of the WW, rightly or wrongly, a higher ranking male than the BH. I doubt the WW really had to be "gamed" all that hard.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong

wranglerman said:


> I kind of agree but also know that there is more to it than that.
> 
> You are missing the chemical and emotional highs in them, it is almost like falling in love again for those in EAs, they are connecting on some totally secret fantasy level where fluffy bunnies are encouraging their contact, but for some there is the level of physical need to be dominated and to be abused or indeed vise versa.
> 
> My ex had zero choice but to talk and own up, after all, she was caught on cctv footage no less than 36 times engaging in carnal acts with other men, if you have ever watched gang bang porn it really was like that, the most horrific thing I actually saw was her swallowing two guys at the same time and the time and date stamp on the video was when she was too sick to be on a long weekend with me and the kids with their god parents.
> 
> This is how I dealt with it all, I just let go and see those videos as porn with a stranger who happened to look like my W, I had no idea who she was, now, I couldn't give a fvck.


Where did she work? This is fascinating and sickening to me at the same time. Dude... that is fvcking awful.


----------



## ThePheonix

barbados said:


> OUCH ! Pheonix. I hope that is just an example and not something you personally experienced.


In a manner of speaking, I have experienced it.  I've seen it on this site about somebody's old lady giving BJs in a car but the bigger concern seems to be if they allowed bear back for the PIV event. Back in the day a big percentage of the women I was seeing would give BJ but insist on rubbers for regular sex. Go figure.


----------



## xakulax

ThePheonix said:


> In a manner of speaking, I have experienced it.  I've seen it on this site about somebody's old lady giving BJs in a car but the bigger concern seems to be if they allowed bear back for the PIV event. Back in the day a big percentage of the women I was seeing would give BJ but insist on rubbers for regular sex. Go figure.



That type of logic is the reason why every BS should get tested for std/sti as soon as possible lord knows what they may have


----------



## LongWalk

Engaging in sex has more functions for women than men. Women have sex because they are in love. So if the person making love to them suddenly wants to have anal sex, they will want to know if that is compatible with love. Is his desire for anal sex a sign of disrespect, i.e., he doesn't love me or this is yet another way to express love? There is no right or wrong answer.

If the sex is about being in the heat and completely letting go with a rutting male, then the boundaries will vanish easily.

If the woman is having sex to influence a man to spend money on her or commit to some covert contract, then she may or may not do usual things to earn more points. She will make a calculation based on her reading of the man. Women often make the wrong reading because they get dumped afterwards.

Women do things they don't want to because they are scared and or intimidated.

Women do things because they are curious. Who doesn't.

What people consume in fiction, movies, etc. may also influence them.

As others noted there is relationship with a husband and power balance that involves sex. A wife may not want to alter that to satisfy curiosity. If a threesome with lesbian sex comes up in her mind, with her husband that would be very complicated. With an affair partner it would involve far less risk. If the AP had sex with the OW, it might be not big deal, but if hubby had sex with OW, that might be a real threat.


----------



## lenzi

LongWalk said:


> Engaging in sex has more functions for women than men. Women have sex because they are in love. .


Is that so? The cheating woman described earlier in this thread who gangbanged 7 or more guys with DP in her mouth was in love with all of them?

Who knew!


----------



## barbados

lenzi said:


> Is that so? The cheating woman described earlier in this thread who gangbanged 7 or more guys with DP in her mouth was in love with all of them?
> 
> Who knew!


:rofl:


----------



## LongWalk

lenzi said:


> Is that so? The cheating woman described earlier in this thread who gangbanged 7 or more guys with DP in her mouth was in love with all of them?
> 
> Who knew!


Love is only one of the reasons, Lenzi. But I think you know that


----------



## bandit.45

I dunno...

If I had a WW who wanted to reconcile, but would not have sex with me or do the things with me that she did with her OM? 

She would be gone. Not just "I'm giving you till next week to find a place and move out"....

No. 

Her sh!t would be piled on the lawn and I would board the fvcking house up before I let her back in. Every exterior door would be screwed tight to the jambs with 3" lag screws. The windows would be covered in 3/4" plywood screwed directly to the interior frames. My house would look like I was getting prepped for a hurricane. 

She would be gone....history....finito....


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> Love is only one of the reasons, Lenzi. But I think you know that


All you need is love...

John Lennon said so.


----------



## badmemory

This is just my theory, but I believe many WS's do things with the AP that they don't even normally prefer to do, just because they're so desperate to hang on to them.


----------



## warlock07

badmemory said:


> This is just my theory, but I believe many WS's do things with the AP that they don't even normally prefer to do, just because they're so desperate to hang on to them.


Do you think you will ever get the truth about the threesome ?


----------



## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> I dunno...
> 
> If I had a WW who wanted to reconcile, but would not have sex with me or do the things with me that she did with her OM?
> 
> She would be gone. Not just "I'm giving you till next week to find a place and move out"....
> 
> No.
> 
> Her sh!t would be piled on the lawn and I would board the fvcking house up before I let her back in. Every exterior door would be screwed tight to the jambs with 3" lag screws. The windows would be covered in 3/4" plywood screwed directly to the interior frames. *My house would look like I was getting prepped for a hurricane.*
> 
> She would be gone....history....finito....


*Damn, Bandito! Hurricanes just ain't a real common occurance out there in the great American Southwest! You're prepped, Brother! Sure that you didn't put in some hours down here on the Texas Gulf Coast?*


----------



## badmemory

warlock07 said:


> Do you think you will ever get the truth about the threesome ?


If I was willing to divorce her or demand a poly to get her to admit it, probably. 

What I do know from the POSOM's e-mails is that he didn't touch the other woman, and that my WS only "received" from her - if you get my drift. Not that it matters. 

What does matter is that she's admitted to so much else, that this act itself seems almost trivial compared to their whole body of work.


----------



## Marduk

Plan 9 from OS said:


> ... I could not imagine reconciling with someone who would give their sexual energy to an AP yet would give you the barest of vanilla sex.


It's actually very simple.

Jack and Jill get married. Jill is into Jack and Jack is into Jill. Jack gets a gut, sits on the couch too much, and when he bothers to try to get Jill in the sack, does it the same way every time.

5 years later and Jill still has warm and fuzzy feelings for Jack, but doesn't get the tinglies any more.

Along comes Jim, who's a lot like Jack used to be. Fit, confident, exciting. Jim gives Jill attention, listens to her, compliments her. Jill gets excited when Jim is around and gets even more bored when Jack is around.

Jim and Jill start texting. At first it's innocent flirting, but becomes more and more "sexy" instead of funny.

Jill finds herself thinking about Jim A LOT. One late night, she happens to have time to herself and mentions it to Jim. Jim meets up with her totally innocently and then Jim makes a move...

Jill decides "why should I put up with a boring life with Jack when Jim just gets me and excites me!"

The clothes come off. Not only is Jill excited, but she's also worried to lose Jim's attention, so she is willing to do anything for him... and why not? She's already cheating.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Jack has no idea why Jill is smiling all the time, dressing sexy, getting in shape, and going out all the time...

Jack finally wises up and finds some texts or something. Jill of course denies and trickle truths... so Jack knows something is up.

He's terrified of losing Jill and lets her rug sweep the whole event and blames it all on Jim...

Who leaves the picture, knowing the gig is up.

And Jill settles back for Jack, but has zero "tinglies" for him, and consoles herself to a lifetime of the barest of vanilla sex...

Until Jake comes along, of course.


----------



## arbitrator

*Not really intentionally desiring to threadjack here, but I do know that if my skanky XW poured enough alcohol down her neck, she could get awfully freaky in the bedroom.

But judging by the dialogue/language from the FB texts that she and Lil' Lord Lardass were busy sending to each other, I damned sure wouldn't want to know exactly what transpired between them in their sexual rendevouz's, other than I would sincerely hope that they were largely successful in giving each other the gift that keeps on giving: a megadose of "the clap!"

I mean that its's challenging enough to even ponder about how such a freakshow fata$$ like him could still conceivably try to perform intercourse with a woman of fairly slender means like her!*


----------



## manticore

Machiavelli said:


> The whole essence of game is to give *relatively unattractive men the understanding of how to say "open sesame."* My married female clients get hit on all day, every day, by men of all ages. Who does this with married women? POS, that's who. The successful ones are those who can fake Alpha at the right moment. However, in the OPs case, the POSOM was in a position of authority and in the eyes of the WW, rightly or wrongly, a higher ranking male than the BH. I doubt the WW really had to be "gamed" all that hard.


I do agree with everything you wrote, I knew the dynamics of her XWW's affair were not that of a player looking for vulnerable woman with poor boundaries to be played, (real player don't go and sh*t where they eat and much less with a subordinates under their control leaving evidence everywhere), my point was as sad as is sounds and as you metioned, even those below average can perform the game and acchive having a married woman doing things for them that she don't do for her husband.

I think that what I am trying to say is that is not that the OM is special or superior in any sense to acchive having his XW doing these acts, is the diynamic of the affair (mainly for the 2 reasons we have discussed here) what sets the WW with a different mentality towards the OM which allow these sexual acts to take place with little or zero resistance.


----------



## treyvion

marduk said:


> It's actually very simple.
> 
> Jack and Jill get married. Jill is into Jack and Jack is into Jill. Jack gets a gut, sits on the couch too much, and when he bothers to try to get Jill in the sack, does it the same way every time.
> 
> 5 years later and Jill still has warm and fuzzy feelings for Jack, but doesn't get the tinglies any more.
> 
> Along comes Jim, who's a lot like Jack used to be. Fit, confident, exciting. Jim gives Jill attention, listens to her, compliments her. Jill gets excited when Jim is around and gets even more bored when Jack is around.
> 
> Jim and Jill start texting. At first it's innocent flirting, but becomes more and more "sexy" instead of funny.
> 
> Jill finds herself thinking about Jim A LOT. One late night, she happens to have time to herself and mentions it to Jim. Jim meets up with her totally innocently and then Jim makes a move...
> 
> Jill decides "why should I put up with a boring life with Jack when Jim just gets me and excites me!"
> 
> The clothes come off. Not only is Jill excited, but she's also worried to lose Jim's attention, so she is willing to do anything for him... and why not? She's already cheating.
> 
> Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Jack has no idea why Jill is smiling all the time, dressing sexy, getting in shape, and going out all the time...
> 
> Jack finally wises up and finds some texts or something. Jill of course denies and trickle truths... so Jack knows something is up.
> 
> He's terrified of losing Jill and lets her rug sweep the whole event and blames it all on Jim...
> 
> Who leaves the picture, knowing the gig is up.
> 
> And Jill settles back for Jack, but has zero "tinglies" for him, and consoles herself to a lifetime of the barest of vanilla sex...
> 
> Until Jake comes along, of course.


Jill doesn't realize she's started a cycle of fault finding and looking for better options and it never ends. As soon as the hot hunk she's boning calms and settles down and she can see him often and see that he's human like the rest of us, she will be off seeking the next image that strikes her eye. Jack needs to be glad that he got rid of such a lady, and find one who appreciates a good man like him and wants to treat him well and wants to stay with him.


----------



## manticore

So badkarma, how your wife reacted once that you informed her that the OM betrayed her by exposing their "intimate sessions" destroying any chance of saving the marriage the stability in her life?.


----------



## ThePheonix

Machiavelli said:


> I doubt the WW really had to be "gamed" all that hard.


You've got that right Dawg. Its practically the other way around.


----------



## badkarma2013

manticore said:


> So badkarma, how your wife reacted once that you informed her that the OM betrayed her by exposing their "intimate sessions" destroying any chance of saving the marriage the stability in her life?.



Basically folded like a busted flush...no more Lies .. crying begging screaming shes sorry ...Until i Threatend a multi million lawsuit...got them Fired...then she became a lost soul...The Om was crushed by his D and his job loss...I ruined her with the pics the OM took of her ...Badkarma Indeed...


----------



## lordmayhem

stevehowefan said:


> That's the most horrible thing I've read on here. Wow.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

It sure is. Its even worse than Tover26's story

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33914-lesbian-bi-serial-oh-my.html

His WW was making videos for OM while masturbating in her wedding dress.


----------



## Machiavelli

manticore said:


> I think that what I am trying to say is that is not that the OM is special or superior in any sense to acchive having his XW doing these acts, is the diynamic of the affair (mainly for the 2 reasons we have discussed here) what sets the WW with a different mentality towards the OM which allow these sexual acts to take place with little or zero resistance.


One other important thing that I forgot to mention that is known to experienced womanizers is that a woman's "disgust barrier" to certain sexual acts is more likely to collapse when she is highly aroused. Guess what? Affair sex is highly arousing to women due to the forbidden nature of the act.


----------



## tom67

badkarma2013 said:


> Basically folded like a busted flush...no more Lies .. crying begging screaming shes sorry ...Until i Threatend a multi million lawsuit...got them Fired...then she became a lost soul...The Om was crushed by his D and his job loss...I ruined her with the pics the OM took of her ...Badkarma Indeed...


Yep
What goes around comes around.
And go figure you got her fired and didn't have to pay extra correct?
3putt has to be having a woody somewhere.


----------



## manticore

badkarma2013 said:


> Basically folded like a busted flush...no more Lies .. crying begging screaming shes sorry ...Until i Threatend a multi million lawsuit...got them Fired...then she became a lost soul...The Om was crushed by his D and his job loss...I ruined her with the pics the OM took of her ...Badkarma Indeed...


so the bqstard was not fired yet when he show you the pictures, he was just angry because you ratted him out with his wife, the kind of entitled bqstard who thinks that does not deserve conquequences for sleeping with someone else's wife.

good for you man, good for enforcing Karma of him, If I were you I would go as far as contacting HR of other big comapies in your city to let them know why this guy was fired so that would crush any possibility of him being hired there (as you can see I am sort of vendictive).



badkarma2013 said:


> Basically folded like a busted flush


are you Fan of poker?, I have been playing online for some years with good results (just as hobby and small buys in of 8 bucks or less), this year I have not have as much time as I would have liked to play but still when I have a couple of free hours I play at least one torunament:

mbmanticor 888.com : mtt : 2014 - Perfiles del Jugador


----------



## badkarma2013

tom67 said:


> Yep
> What goes around comes around.
> And go figure you got her fired and didn't have to pay extra correct?
> 3putt has to be having a woody somewhere.



Her and her boss(OM)//lost everything.....What I did after i was shown the pics the OM had taken was nothing short of Revenge on my part..I see that now....

But one must remember ....when you are being overrun,you will not hesitate to call in an airstrike on your own position.

I was being overrun...and did not hesitate one second..


----------



## tom67

badkarma2013 said:


> Her and her boss(OM)//lost everything.....What I did after i was shown the pics the OM had taken was nothing short of Revenge on my part..I see that now....
> 
> But one must remember ....when you are being overrun,you will not hesitate to call in an airstrike on your own position.
> 
> I was being overrun...and did not hesitate one second..


I would have done the same thing.
When you have NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain it's game on.
Life is too short for this bs.
Just curious how long was the affair?


----------



## badkarma2013

tom67 said:


> I would have done the same thing.
> When you have NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain it's game on.
> Life is too short for this bs.
> Just curious how long was the affair?


Tom...I Knew something was going on about 6 months before D-DAY.....He (OM) promoted her to his exec.asst. so they could travel together about 4 before i knew something was really wrong...her story varied..with the lies ...with all the info.I gathered before the D..I would say approx a year..


----------



## badkarma2013

manticore said:


> so the bqstard was not fired yet when he show you the pictures, he was just angry because you ratted him out with his wife, the kind of entitled bqstard who thinks that does not deserve conquequences for sleeping with someone else's wife.
> 
> good for you man, good for enforcing Karma of him, If I were you I would go as far as contacting HR of other big comapies in your city to let them know why this guy was fired so that would crush any possibility of him being hired there (as you can see I am sort of vendictive).
> 
> 
> 
> are you Fan of poker?, I have been playing online for some years with good results (just as hobby and small buys in of 8 bucks or less), this year I have not have as much time as I would have liked to play but still when I have a couple of free hours I play at least one torunament:
> 
> mbmanticor 888.com : mtt : 2014 - Perfiles del Jugador


Yes i am a fan....wish i had the same Game with reading my ex early on as i do playing...


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

badkarma2013 said:


> Her and her boss(OM)//lost everything.....What I did after i was shown the pics the OM had taken was nothing short of Revenge on my part..I see that now....
> 
> But one must remember ....*when you are being overrun,you will not hesitate to call in an airstrike on your own position.*
> 
> I was being overrun...and did not hesitate one second..


When I read this, the first thing that popped into my mind was a scene in the movie Platoon. When their position was being over run a Major(I think?) calls in an air strike on their position.

He ends the call by saying "It's been a lovely fvcking war! Over!"

I know of the hell that you've been through. I can truely relate, believe me.

But I couldn't help but smile when I read how you handled your ex and the OM. Not so much the case of the good guy wins, because no one wins when there's cheating involved. But the good guy coming out on top.

I'll bet that idiot wishes he's have never shown you those pictures of your ex now.


----------



## Dyokemm

"The Om was crushed by his D and his job loss."

The fate every POS who chases another man's W deserves (at a minimum).

It's too bad so many BH's never really make an effort to destroy these dirtbags.

I know if I was a BH and let the POS essentially get off without consequences, and I ever heard that the POS had gone on to do it to some other poor guy, I would feel guilty.

I think a BH should try to rain as much h**l as possible down on a POSOM....that scum should have a permanent mental scar every time he thinks back to the A and its consequences.

Maybe he would think twice before he ever f***ed with another guy's W again.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Is that so? The cheating woman described earlier in this thread who gangbanged 7 or more guys with DP in her mouth was in love with all of them?

Who knew!"

Lenzi,

sometimes your posts make me spit my drink all over my screen.

Great sarcasm.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Every exterior door would be screwed tight to the jambs with 3" lag screws. The windows would be covered in 3/4" plywood screwed directly to the interior frames. My house would look like I was getting prepped for a hurricane."

Bandit,

Sounds like an episode of Doomsday Preppers....but I totally agree with your sentiment.


----------



## Horizon

What a trigger thread.

Reading this made me recall my ex WS's psycho logic when I was asking those first questions after DDay.

"OK, he made you feel good and desired and special and all that sh*t, but why did you have sex with him?"

"I felt I owed it to him"

It took me a while to see that this was a simple act of minimising. It was an auto response - that's the cheaters default after denial is impossible. Minimise the guts out of it. 

But this auto tactic didn't immediately register because I was still in an early shock and anger phase. I was incredulous - all I could do was look at her and try to explain how completely illogical a statement it was; before I erupted for the upteenth time.

What I didn't say until much later was this....

"OK, so you're telling me that this POS made you feel special after such a long period of feeling invisible, and the way you could reward him, was by letting him have sex with you because you felt you owed it to him?"

No comment....

"So you're saying that there was nothing in it for you, you didn't enjoy it, you had no emotional stake in the act with him, no feelings, no sensations of pleasure - nothing. You just let him have his way as a reward for being such a nice bloke. That's what you're saying right?"

I can't remember what she said after that. It doesn't matter now but I know it would have been more smokescreen, more minmising, more gaslighting more whatever.

Being betrayed by your number one confidant on the planet is an immeasurable mind f**k and even to this day remains so.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

"Being betrayed by your number one confidant on the planet is an immeasurable mind f**k and even to this day remains so. "

Never able to "Trust" anyone to the level you were able to do prior to this again has now been taken away from you.


----------



## couple

1. Most, if not all, sexual activities are "sick and disgusting" if you think about them separate from the context of sexual arousal and attraction - even french kissing. Affair sex is often very lustful so barriers are more easily broken down. Sometimes people will do anything if they are horny enough, even things that they might think of as "sick and disgusting" when thinking straight.

2. It's human nature to 'try harder' with a new lover. She might try harder to impress her AP, ensure that he has a good time so he continues to be interested in her.

3. Affairs suspend reality and people can be whoever they want to be as it's all new. Maybe she wants him to see her as a little 'wild'. Likewise, the suspension of reality aspect of affairs can mean that the normal rules and barriers of normal life are also out the window.

4. Her affair partner may have more skill in getting her to submit to various activities or maybe he tries harder to get these things.

One of life's lessons that has horrified me is just how much cheating is done with complete reckless abandon and without holding anything back out of some semblance of respect for the partner. When it's done, it's often done in a very big way.


----------



## Marduk

treyvion said:


> Jill doesn't realize she's started a cycle of fault finding and looking for better options and it never ends. As soon as the hot hunk she's boning calms and settles down and she can see him often and see that he's human like the rest of us, she will be off seeking the next image that strikes her eye. Jack needs to be glad that he got rid of such a lady, and find one who appreciates a good man like him and wants to treat him well and wants to stay with him.


I agree.

The lesson Jill needs to learn is that everyone is replaceable, including her. And she will be replaced by Jack, Jim, Jake, and anyone else that comes along until she learns to both control herself and not to try to settle down with someone she won't be attracted to long-term.

Jack needs to learn to select mates better, and most of all that just being married or in a LTR doesn't mean he can let himself go. The battle is not won; it's merely beginning.


----------



## Marduk

couple said:


> 1. Most, if not all, sexual activities are "sick and disgusting" if you think about them separate from the context of sexual arousal and attraction - even french kissing. Affair sex is often very lustful so barriers are more easily broken down. Sometimes people will do anything if they are horny enough, even things that they might think of as "sick and disgusting" when thinking straight.
> 
> 2. It's human nature to 'try harder' with a new lover. She might try harder to impress her AP, ensure that he has a good time so he continues to be interested in her.
> 
> 3. Affairs suspend reality and people can be whoever they want to be as it's all new. Maybe she wants him to see her as a little 'wild'. Likewise, the suspension of reality aspect of affairs can mean that the normal rules and barriers of normal life are also out the window.
> 
> 4. Her affair partner may have more skill in getting her to submit to various activities or maybe he tries harder to get these things.
> 
> One of life's lessons that has horrified me is just how much cheating is done with complete reckless abandon and without holding anything back out of some semblance of respect for the partner. When it's done, it's often done in a very big way.


Agree 100%, would like to add one element: context.

Ever wonder why the girl you're dating won't let you have sex with her for weeks until you break up with her and she bangs the next guy that comes along?

Ever wonder how women can go from being prim and proper soccer moms to drunken frat girls when they fly to Vegas with their friends that night?

Ever wonder how women that would barely show their ankles at home will put on the skimpiest bikini bottoms and go topless in Mexico?

Context.

I've experimented with this while dating. Be the nice guy and you get the nice girl response. Be the bad boy and you get the bad girl response.

Often from the same girl.

Same thing in marriage.

Be the nice guy and you get the good girl. Inject some bad boy and the panties come off so hard they fly across the room.

Take what you want. Bring home costumes, lingerie, sex toys. Unabashedly grope, feel, strip her down. Tell her your desires. Create a space where she can voice hers. Not a safe place, but a place where the context always includes sex. Pursue her. Instruct her. Be... male.

That's part of how guys who sleep with married chicks get those married girls to do crazy things in the sack.

They create a context where it's clear that it's wanted from them, expected from them, and is OK to give it. More than OK. Desired. Demanded. Not judged. Not forced either, but opened up with a large degree of confidence on the part of the guy.


----------



## lordmayhem

Dyokemm said:


> "The Om was crushed by his D and his job loss."
> 
> The fate every POS who chases another man's W deserves (at a minimum).
> 
> It's too bad so many BH's never really make an effort to destroy these dirtbags.
> 
> I know if I was a BH and let the POS essentially get off without consequences, and I ever heard that the POS had gone on to do it to some other poor guy, I would feel guilty.
> 
> I think a BH should try to rain as much h**l as possible down on a POSOM....that scum should have a permanent mental scar every time he thinks back to the A and its consequences.
> 
> Maybe he would think twice before he ever f***ed with another guy's W again.


A good example of letting the OM get away with it and rugsweeping, is the RDMU thread.


----------



## manticore

lordmayhem said:


> A good example of letting the OM get away with it and rugsweeping, is the RDMU thread.


Just seeing someone mentioning that thread upsets me, I have been one year avoiding everything related to that case. The injustice, the passiveness and blameshift that I see there for me is clear that is a case where many things were rugsweeped.

I mentioned in other thread about some users that I don't understand why is that they are trying reconcilation but at least I know they do it with the eyes wide open and after confronting, exposing assigning blame and finally addressing the problems they had and I know they hold the cards in their situations, but in RDMU's situation his wife is still the one holding the cards and someone just told me by PM, that now she is even throwing the "open marriage" card out there.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

lordmayhem said:


> A good example of letting the OM get away with it and rugsweeping, is the RDMU thread.


If ever I saw the recipe for a far a FWW to become the WW again, it's with this one.

I just hope when(if) he finds out that she's doing it again, he just walks away. He seems like a mild mannered, roll with the punches kind of guy. But I have a feeling that if he has another DDay, he's going to snap, big time.


----------



## convert

manticore said:


> Just seeing someone mentioning that thread upsets me, I have been one year avoiding everything related to that case. The injustice, the passiveness and blameshift that I see there for me is clear that is a case where many things were rugsweeped.
> 
> I mentioned in other thread about some users that I don't understand why is that they are trying reconcilation but at least I know they do it with the eyes wide open and after confronting, exposing assigning blame and finally addressing the problems they had and I know they hold the cards in their situations, but in RDMU's situation his wife is still the one holding the cards and someone just told me by PM, that now she is even throwing the "open marriage" card out there.


Oh man tell me this can't be true.

if it is RDMU has his answer (she is going to do it again)

I so wish RDMU would come back and post. I know he does not want the abuse here. He is already getting enough at home.

manticore if this was supposed to be private you may want to edit your post if so i will edit my post too (let me know)
if true it could have only came from one or two people here unless RDMU is PMing you?

*OK this is not new information
this came from a var in her car before dday where she is talking about it to herself*


----------



## manticore

convert said:


> Oh man tell me this can't be true.
> 
> if it is RDMU has his answer (she is going to do it again)
> 
> I so wish RDMU would come back and post. I know he does not want the abuse here. He is already getting enough at home.
> 
> manticore if this was supposed to be private you may want to edit your post if so i will edit my post too (let me know)
> if true it could have only came from one or two people here unless RDMU is PMing you?
> 
> *OK this is not new information
> this came from a var in her car before dday where she is talking about it to herself*


The PM is not from somebody close to RDMU or weightlifter, is just form another user with whom I discussed briefly the RDMU's case and told me what was being discussed in the newest thread.

Like I wrote here I really have been trying to avoid to read any news or updates about RDMU, because after one post he did around August of last year it was clear to me that he was not going to expose the OM, he was not going to enforce consequences for any part, he was going to rugsweep most of what happened and in a way he was going to take blame for the affair and assign the reamining blame to BOB, depicting his WW as the poor vicitim of a evil manipulator.

there is nothing for me to do there other than silently whising for RDMU's happiness and for BOB's karma buss, but unfortunatly I believe that neither of those things will happen if RDMU continues with the path he have already choosen.


----------



## Nucking Futs

manticore said:


> The PM is not from somebody close to RDMU or weightlifter, is just form another user with whom I discussed briefly the RDMU's case and told me what was being discussed in the newest thread.
> 
> *Like I wrote here I really have been trying to avoid to read any news or updates about RDMU,* because after one post he did around August of last year it was clear to me that he was not going to expose the OM, he was not going to enforce consequences for any part, he was going to rugsweep most of what happened and in a way he was going to take blame for the affair and assign the reamining blame to BOB, depicting his WW as the poor vicitim of a evil manipulator.
> 
> there is nothing for me to do there other than silently whising for RDMU's happiness and for BOB's karma buss, but unfortunatly I believe that neither of those things will happen if RDMU continues with the path he have already choosen.


I feel the same way. As soon as I saw what that thread was about I got out of it and haven't been back in, didn't read any of it.


----------



## badkarma2013

3. Affairs suspend reality and people can be whoever they want to be as it's all new. Maybe she wants him to see her as a little 'wild'. Likewise, the suspension of reality aspect of affairs can mean that the normal rules and barriers of normal life are also out the window.


I truly believe this ....But the things she let him do to her..(verified by 12-15 pics i saw) was beyond comprehension ....and defied logic as per HER OWN WORDS and her refusal to even attempt one of the acts with me as she did OM much less some of the other stuff...Jesus Christ it was like a nightmare i cant stop watching ...


----------



## lovelygirl

bandit.45 said:


> While she was your wife she was playing a role. She didn't want you to think she was a sexually adventurous trollop. With the OM she could live the fantasy and felt free to be the slvt she truly wanted to be. Just not with you. She had to maintain control on your marriage , so she doled you out just enough vanilla sex to keep you quiet.
> 
> She's a manipulator. The same things that drove her to cheat also drove her to withhold the good sex from you. It's all connected.
> 
> What did she say when she found out you saw the pics ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why do women think they'd be consider a **** if let their DH know about their inner and wild sex desires??

Is it because deep down men think women are sl*ts if they behave like that?
Women who think that, must've gotten this reaction from their man. 
Are men this way? 

They want her to be wild but yet again they think she's a sl* if she does with him what she could do with her AP.


----------



## badkarma2013

lovelygirl said:


> Why do women think they'd be consider a **** if let their DH know about their inner and wild sex desires??
> 
> Is it because deep down men think women are sl*ts if they behave like that?
> Women who think that, must've gotten this reaction from their man.
> Are men this way?
> 
> They want her to be wild but yet again they think she's a sl* if she does with him what she could do with her AP.




Hey lovely girl thank you for commenting... It wasnt that in my case i had wanted to try different things for years and her words they were that is SICK AND DISGUSTING,but she did those things and let him (OM) do things to her that defy explaination....BUT SHE DID THEM WITH HIM...


My only question is HOW AND WHY.....I never got a clear answer from her before D....Or any one since..thats my reason for asking...not to judge in any way but to try to understand such HUGE CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR that was a constant for over 22yrs of marriage.

Ive NEVER met a women that could explain it to me....PLs if you can try...AGAIN no judgement just why.


----------



## xakulax

badkarma2013 said:


> 3. Affairs suspend reality and people can be whoever they want to be as it's all new. Maybe she wants him to see her as a little 'wild'. Likewise, the suspension of reality aspect of affairs can mean that the normal rules and barriers of normal life are also out the window.
> 
> 
> I truly believe this ....But the things she let him do to her..(verified by 12-15 pics i saw) was beyond comprehension ....and defied logic as per HER OWN WORDS and her refusal to even attempt one of the acts with me as she did OM much less some of the other stuff...Jesus Christ it was like a nightmare i cant stop watching ...



:iagree::iagree:


This is also the reason why many have unprotected sex with there affair partners knowing the risk they live in their own little world tell realty comes knocking


----------



## lovelygirl

badkarma2013 said:


> Hey lovely girl thank you for commenting... It wasnt that in my case i had wanted to try different things for years and her words they were that is SICK AND DISGUSTING,but she did those things and let him (OM) do things to her that defy explaination....BUT SHE DID THEM WITH HIM...
> 
> 
> My only question is HOW AND WHY.....I never got a clear answer from her before D....Or any one since..thats my reason for asking...not to judge in any way but to try to understand such HUGE CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR that was a constant for over 22yrs of marriage.
> 
> Ive NEVER met a women that could explain it to me....PLs if you can try...AGAIN no judgement just why.


Machiavelli and bandit said it precisely as it is.

When women get married, they suddenly think their job is to be a good lady at home and a good mother. 
All of a sudden they forget they are supposed to be good wives too. For a man, being a good wife, means to be wild in bed (for the most part) but for women (who are now mothers) this is shameful and is something that belongs to the past when they used to be younger, sexier and fresher.
They build this insecurity around them that puts a wall between her and the husband. 

But once they meet another man, they forget about family, husband, home, kids...and they go back to being the young, fresh and sexy ladies they once where BEFORE they got married and had kids. 
AP is something different...something careless, thoughtless...
They can show their wild part because even if they are judged for that..they don't care. After all, AP is one to get wild with. Something they're afraid to show at home where they have the role of a mother and a lady taking care of the house.


----------



## Nucking Futs

lovelygirl said:


> Why do women think they'd be consider a **** if let their DH know about their inner and wild sex desires??
> 
> Is it because deep down men think women are sl*ts if they behave like that?
> Women who think that, must've gotten this reaction from their man.
> Are men this way?
> 
> They want her to be wild but yet again they think she's a sl* if she does with him what she could do with her AP.


Pure blame shifting. It's the mans fault no matter what.


----------



## badkarma2013

lovelygirl said:


> Machiavelli and bandit said it precisely as it is.
> 
> When women get married, they suddenly think their job is to be a good lady at home and a good mother.
> All of a sudden they forget they are supposed to be good wives too. For a man, being a good wife, means to be wild in bed (for the most part) but for women (who are now mothers) this is shameful and is something that belongs to the past when they used to be younger, sexier and fresher.
> They build this insecurity around them that puts a wall between her and the husband.
> 
> But once they meet another man, they forget about family, husband, home, kids...and they go back to being the young, fresh and sexy ladies they once where BEFORE they got married and had kids.
> AP is something different...something careless, thoughtless...
> They can show their wild part because even if they are judged for that..they don't care. After all, AP is one to get wild with. Something they're afraid to show at home where they have the role of a mother and a lady taking care of the house.



I truly appreciate all who commented here and Gave me great advice...

From ALL post on this forum there seems to be a common thread (from the BHs point of view ) WW gets bored,,,not feeling it anymore...has everything she Ever wished for, but still NOT FUC%$&G HAPPY...some OM comes comes tells them some BULLS%$T how pretty they look....compliments them ...finds out a need an fullfills it and they fall for this S*&Tand to keep it going they have uninhibited sex with basically a stranger...who has LIED or BULLS^%TED them for sex...

and risk EVERYTHING...for a LINE.. THIS so common , I sit in disbelief how stupid can one be

I KNOW THIS I WilLL NEVER MARRY AGAIN...

Someone may stay with me or I them...the FIRST sign of ANY CRAP coming down the line ... GOODBYE MOTHERFU%$ER

no one will EVER burn me like this again...

I am not laying all of this this on WWs as a majority of the time the OM is married as well...


THose who do not learn from the past ...ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT...Badkarma 2013....... May 16, 2014


----------



## Machiavelli

Nucking Futs said:


> It's the mans fault no matter what.


Same as it ever was.


----------



## Ripper

badkarma2013 said:


> I KNOW THIS I WilLL NEVER MARRY AGAIN...


You wonder why you thought it was a good idea the first time.


----------



## ThePheonix

Women who cheat have lost romantic interest in their husband. Why should they do any more than they have to. They don't want to screw you in the first place, let alone anything that requires much effort. That's the way it is.


----------



## LongWalk

If you read some of early TAM, you will find WW posting in threads, writing rather honestly about their feelings. They, too, are somewhat mystified by their own attitudes and impulses. Blaming their husbands is something that they are both comfortable and uncomfortable with. The hypocrisy of being a fornicator is apparent to even the most brazen, but some of them are done with their husbands as sexually exciting people. 

Those women don't post on TAM because we're not that kind of forum. That is why Mach is like a guide who can spot WW and explain what they are doing from a scientific perspective.

Let's be completely honest sexuality gets people to do things that are not rational from a Vulcan point of view. People castrate dogs because it makes them more compliant and easier to live with. A dog with intact sexual function will love humans and be loyal but give them 5 minutes and the right smells and all the training and devotion go out the window.

Humans are more complex, but our basic urges are not so different. If we really believed we could overcome sexual instinct, we would not spay or neuter our beloved pets but counsel, preach and beg.


----------



## manticore

ThePheonix said:


> Women who cheat have lost romantic interest in their husband. Why should they do any more than they have to. They don't want to screw you in the first place, let alone anything that requires much effort. That's the way it is.


I am going to sound rude but sorry there are alot of evindence to support the the statement I am about to write.

you are wrong.

first you are implying that when a woman cheats is always for something related with romance or love (the lack of it or the apparence of a stronger feeling related to it), which is a lie, what about serial cheaters or sex addicts?, what about opportunity?, so women can not feel desired for another man while in love with the one they are dating. I think "tears" or "un_amor_perdido" will disagree strongly with you here.

there is a case I once read about a woman who have been having an affair for 18 years, but of those 18 she had been married just 7 (the other 11 she was a single OW), she clearly stated that she loved more her husband than the OM (who was a friend and partner in the law firm of his father), that the OM thing was more something like a fix of a moment to forget the daily rutines but she wanted to end it because she didn't knew what she would do if her husband found a broke the marriage.

another mistake is that you imply is that women who cheats have stopped or don't want to screw their husnbands which is completly wrong, users as "oldsmitten", "theflood", "bashfulbull" and "badblood" *had a pretty active and varied* sexual life (before and during the affair).

Oldsmitten's wife in her thread in MB said that she never stopped loving her husband and never sttoped feeling desire for him, her cheating was because she was in entering in her 40's she was feeling unnactractive and went and banged someone who she knew always was attracted to her (oldsmitten's best friend and she was the agressor BTW), but after some moths and when the thrilled dissapeared and she realized what she was doing, betraying the man she loved and risking it all and is when she tried to stop the affair and the OM began to black mail her, evetually she called the OM's bluff and stopped the affair.

As you can see women just as men can be pricks that have opportunities and let themselves go to enjoy phantasy without taking in consideration nobody else's feelings.


----------



## LongWalk

In agreement with Manticore. There are all sorts of relationships. HardtoDetach was better in bed than OM. His WW wanted something else from the affair than sex.

There is a TED talk about the contradiction between marriage and sexual desire. Part of exciting sex is the mystery of strange. Husband of 7 or 8 years is very known guy.

In the summer time you can go the local baseball diamond and watch amateur baseball teams play. The crowds are mostly family. If some guy strikes out three times and commits the game losing error with his wife watching, does he get laid when they get home? If he steals second and makes it home on a sacrifice fly, his chances will be better, I'll wager. 

He'll probably feel like he deserves to give his wife a good banging. Confidence is an aphrodisiac.


----------



## manticore

badkarma2013 said:


> My only question is HOW AND WHY.....I never got a clear answer from her before D....Or any one since..thats my reason for asking...not to judge in any way but to try to understand such HUGE CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR that was a constant for over 22yrs of marriage.


Badkarma, I think that in your XW case was not really about the maddona-Wh0re complex, sure it helped her to say yes but I think that it was more about pleasing the POSOM, what lead me to believe this is the following:

He knew that your XW didn't performed those acts with you (as he show you spefically those pictures) and he took picture of them (I don't think he took pictures or video of every encounter, just of those who he consideren relevant).

Yout XW at certain point probably told him what she had not do it with you and he probably pushed for those acts, but I don't think those came for free, probably he pushed using his postion offering a promotion and raising her salary, offering traveling with him at the time of the request, so in a way he probably bought his way to reach that point, and of course she can not reaveal such information because it will just damage even more her image and destroy any picnh of "respect" that she thought still remained from you


----------



## badkarma2013

ThePheonix said:


> Women who cheat have lost romantic interest in their husband. Why should they do any more than they have to. They don't want to screw you in the first place, let alone anything that requires much effort. That's the way it is.


Pheonix...I could not Disagree more.........I have read DOZENS of letters that WWS have written to Katie Lersch...a noted expert on affairs

A Vast majority Start off saying I met another at work, gym,yoga class etc...started affair...I LOVED MY HUSBAND...great sex...good life ..I never wanted to leave him nor would I for the OM...and stated they were HAPPY...and could not explain why they acted this way...


The other fact is they showed little or not much REMORSE ...BUT did not have the GODD$%N charater to say ...Ive met someone else...we have a problem...or I JUST LIKE IT...

They just did it....They were only sorry for the aftermath...not the ACT..


----------



## badkarma2013

This is an excert of a letter from a WW..SOUND FAMILIAR TO ANYONE ON HERE?

I might hear a comment like: "I am ashamed that I cheated on my husband. This is the worst mistake I have ever made. I don't know why I did this. It's honestly not like me. I am the type of person who never goes over the speed limit, always tries to do the right thing, and feels physically ill when I lie or do something that I know is wrong. My husband never suspected me of cheating because that's just so outside of my typical behavior pattern. It's also not in my personality to be wild and adventurous when it comes to sex. But that's exactly what happened with the other man. In fact, that was the sole basis of our relationship. I don't particularly even LIKE the other man. But I sure LIKED having sex with him. And I can't get those images out of my head. My husband and I are trying very hard to rescue our marriage. And we have made progress. But when I am intimate with my husband, I can't help but compare it with sex with the other man. And, it's not even close. It's almost as if it's not even the same act. I've spoken with other people in this situation and they all seem to agree with me. The sex is so much better when with the affair partner. Why is this? Part of me thinks that the other man and I just have great chemistry, but another part of me thinks that there is more to it. I'm not going to act on any of this. I'm just wondering why it happens. "

WOW how many of us have been down that road...


----------



## LongWalk

Sex is physical act that some carry out with more grace and vitality. We associate sex and music closely. Some of us have more musical talent than others. That is the way it is. But everybody can get better at sex and perhaps perform passably.

Even if you don't like classical music, you will admit that Hilary Hahn is probably hot in more ways than one.


----------



## Chaparral

badkarma2013 said:


> Her and her boss(OM)//lost everything.....What I did after i was shown the pics the OM had taken was nothing short of Revenge on my part..I see that now....
> 
> But one must remember ....when you are being overrun,you will not hesitate to call in an airstrike on your own position.
> 
> I was being overrun...and did not hesitate one second..


Many here see revenge as a very bad thing. I see it as a preventive measure. How many people will see what happened to two cheaters and think twice before going down the same road. 

There is supposedly a study that says 70-75% of men and women would have an affair if they knew they wouldn't get caught. Its probably true since about half that number do have affairs. Its so common because a huge majority aren't caught, divorce is easy and profitable for many, and their is little shame for many folks.


----------



## Chaparral

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> When I read this, the first thing that popped into my mind was a scene in the movie Platoon. When their position was being over run a Major(I think?) calls in an air strike on their position.
> 
> He ends the call by saying "It's been a lovely fvcking war! Over!"
> 
> I know of the hell that you've been through. I can truely relate, believe me.
> 
> But I couldn't help but smile when I read how you handled your ex and the OM. Not so much the case of the good guy wins, because no one wins when there's cheating involved. But the good guy coming out on top.
> 
> I'll bet that idiot wishes he's have never shown you those pictures of your ex now.


I bet he wishes he had kept his pants on. I bet he wishes he never took a picture. I bet he wishes he was a good guy and not an arrogant a$$hole. I bet he wishes he had his family back. I bet he wishes he was as smart as the man he screwed over.

:moon: Here's to you Posom


----------



## Chaparral

Dyokemm said:


> "The Om was crushed by his D and his job loss."
> 
> The fate every POS who chases another man's W deserves (at a minimum).
> 
> It's too bad so many BH's never really make an effort to destroy these dirtbags.
> 
> I know if I was a BH and let the POS essentially get off without consequences, and I ever heard that the POS had gone on to do it to some other poor guy, I would feel guilty.
> 
> I think a BH should try to rain as much h**l as possible down on a POSOM....that scum should have a permanent mental scar every time he thinks back to the A and its consequences.
> 
> Maybe he would think twice before he ever f***ed with another guy's W again.


I think there is a correlation in the kind of man that doesn't go after the man that raided his family and the kind of man that gets cheated on. I think this acts on wives/girlfriends at an unconscious level. No matter what they say, women like being defended and fought over.

When I had my problem with my supposed future wife, I was fresh out college, liberalized, non violent against the Vietnam war etc.

Not that I was THAT nonviolent if it came to a personal attack but my girl really didn't know that.


----------



## Graywolf2

Chaparral said:


> I think this acts on wives/girlfriends at an unconscious level. No matter what they say, women like being defended and fought over.


:iagree::iagree:

The actions don't have to be physical in that it doesn't have to be a fistfight. It can be that the other person paid some kind of price for messing with your family.

The following example is physical and is from the movie Braveheart. I know my wife and daughter like this part.


_Princess Isabella: This Scottish rebel, Wallace. He fights to avenge a woman?

Nicolette: (taking Isabella's hand.) I nearly forgot. A magistrate wished to capture him, and found he had a secret lover.

(Some soldiers appear and Isabella motions to Nicolette to be quiet until they turn the corner. Nicolette continues in a more conspiratorial voice. Isabella listens attentively.)

Nicolette: So he cut the girl's throat to tempt Wallace to fight, and fight he did. Knowing his passion for his lost love, they next plotted to take him by desecrating the graves of his father and brother, and setting an ambush at the grave of his love. He fought his way through the trap and carried her body to a secret place.

(Isabella leans back against the wall, closing her eyes, wrapped in emotion.)

Nicolette: Now that's love, no?

Isabella: (opens her eyes) Love? I wouldn't know._


----------



## Chaparral

badkarma2013 said:


> Hey lovely girl thank you for commenting... It wasnt that in my case i had wanted to try different things for years and her words they were that is SICK AND DISGUSTING,but she did those things and let him (OM) do things to her that defy explaination....BUT SHE DID THEM WITH HIM...
> 
> 
> My only question is HOW AND WHY.....I never got a clear answer from her before D....Or any one since..thats my reason for asking...not to judge in any way but to try to understand such HUGE CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR that was a constant for over 22yrs of marriage.
> 
> Ive NEVER met a women that could explain it to me....PLs if you can try...AGAIN no judgement just why.


RDMU's wife talks to herself in the car. She went on and on about how he "made" her do stuff that she hated. I doubt she let him know she hated it. 

What I found, I played around until I was in my thirties, that women do what they have to do to keep a man that they want to keep. Then they do things they would never imagine that they would do. Then they get used to it and may or may not like it but do it anyway. It just depends on how committed they are and what they think it will take.


----------



## xakulax

badkarma2013 said:


> This is an excert of a letter from a WW..SOUND FAMILIAR TO ANYONE ON HERE?
> 
> I might hear a comment like: "I am ashamed that I cheated on my husband. This is the worst mistake I have ever made. I don't know why I did this. It's honestly not like me. I am the type of person who never goes over the speed limit, always tries to do the right thing, and feels physically ill when I lie or do something that I know is wrong. My husband never suspected me of cheating because that's just so outside of my typical behavior pattern. It's also not in my personality to be wild and adventurous when it comes to sex. But that's exactly what happened with the other man. In fact, that was the sole basis of our relationship. I don't particularly even LIKE the other man. But I sure LIKED having sex with him. And I can't get those images out of my head. *My husband and I are trying very hard to rescue our marriage. And we have made progress. But when I am intimate with my husband, I can't help but compare it with sex with the other man. And, it's not even close*. It's almost as if it's not even the same act. I've spoken with other people in this situation and they all seem to agree with me. *The sex is so much better when with the affair partner. Why is this? Part of me thinks that the other man and I just have great chemistry, but another part of me thinks that there is more to it. I'm not going to act on any of this. I'm just wondering why it happens*. "
> 
> WOW how many of us have been down that road...




This should be a mandatory reading for any betrayed spouse who is on the fence considering R this is whats rattling around your WS head this is why the sex is not the same and not as frequent this is the truth that most MC try to rug-sweep away.


----------



## Machiavelli

badkarma2013 said:


> It's also not in my personality to be wild and adventurous when it comes to sex. But that's exactly what happened with the other man. In fact, that was the sole basis of our relationship. *I don't particularly even LIKE the other man. But I sure LIKED having sex with him. And I can't get those images out of my head. *


Five minutes of Alpha A$$hole beats fifteen years of devoted Beta. From now on, no matter who's on top of her, she's being fooked by the ghost alpha.



badkarma2013 said:


> My husband and I are trying very hard to rescue our marriage. And we have made progress. But when I am intimate with my husband, I can't help but compare it with sex with the other man. And, it's not even close.


I should really read the whole post before fishing it, but have I mentioned that five minutes of alpha, beats fifteen years of beta?



badkarma2013 said:


> It's almost as if it's not even the same act. *I've spoken with other people in this situation and they all seem to agree with me.* The sex is so much better when with the affair partner.


All her female relatives and friends.



badkarma2013 said:


> Why is this? Part of me thinks that the other man and I just have great chemistry, but another part of me thinks that there is more to it. *I'm not going to act on any of this.* I'm just wondering why it happens. "


At least not until the next guy who knows what the hell he's doing gives me the long eye and a smirk.



badkarma2013 said:


> WOW how many of us have been down that road...


Too many. This is the kind of stuff that preachers should be covering in their premarital counseling.


----------



## Machiavelli

Chaparral said:


> RDMU's wife talks to herself in the car. She went on and on about how he "made" her do stuff that she hated. I doubt she let him know she hated it.
> 
> What I found, I played around until I was in my thirties, that women do what they have to do to keep a man that they want to keep. Then they do things they would never imagine that they would do. Then they get used to it and may or may not like it but do it anyway. It just depends on how committed they are and what they think it will take.


Yeah, and she'd gotten into enough of the "literature" on her new "lifestyle" to know that she was going to "hate" what was up ahead, like being put with women and lent to other doms. She was looking forward to "hating" it until D-Day.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah, and she'd gotten into enough of the "literature" on her new "lifestyle"* to know that she was going to "hate" what was up ahead, like being put with women and lent to other doms. She was looking forward to "hating" it until D-Day.*


The fact that "boob" was already jealous of "clay" made me think that not only had they discussed including other people in their sex acts(starting with at least clay). That she also didn't say no to it. Even used it to toy with boob. Ultimately she would have gave in to what boob and her(secretly) wanted.

If she had not been discovered by her husband, given enough time, I can imagine her being locked in a stocked with a line forming at each end.

I'm only half kidding about this. I feel that she had gotten so addicted to these sexcapades that she needed to do just a little more each time to get the same high as the last. Every time she went a little further, to get that high(remember the butt-plug, the remote control vibrating panties). Just like a junky does.

Eventually doing all the things that one man and one woman could do. They would have then added clay. Then after a while, they would have then added...


----------



## LongWalk

We need an update from RoadScholar.


----------



## Marduk

badkarma2013 said:


> This is an excert of a letter from a WW..SOUND FAMILIAR TO ANYONE ON HERE?
> 
> I might hear a comment like: "I am ashamed that I cheated on my husband. This is the worst mistake I have ever made. I don't know why I did this. It's honestly not like me. I am the type of person who never goes over the speed limit, always tries to do the right thing, and feels physically ill when I lie or do something that I know is wrong. My husband never suspected me of cheating because that's just so outside of my typical behavior pattern. It's also not in my personality to be wild and adventurous when it comes to sex. But that's exactly what happened with the other man. In fact, that was the sole basis of our relationship. I don't particularly even LIKE the other man. But I sure LIKED having sex with him. And I can't get those images out of my head. My husband and I are trying very hard to rescue our marriage. And we have made progress. But when I am intimate with my husband, I can't help but compare it with sex with the other man. And, it's not even close. It's almost as if it's not even the same act. I've spoken with other people in this situation and they all seem to agree with me. The sex is so much better when with the affair partner. Why is this? Part of me thinks that the other man and I just have great chemistry, but another part of me thinks that there is more to it. I'm not going to act on any of this. I'm just wondering why it happens. "
> 
> WOW how many of us have been down that road...


Dude, I know this is very, very hard... but in all likelihood the reason she would do that stuff with him and not with you...

Is that she's more attracted to him than she is to you.

It's not about love. It's not about compassion. It's not about respect, remorse, commitment, betrayal, or any of those things.

It's about crazy sex from a guy she wanted. She wanted to be a knock-down crazy ho with him. And not with you.

Accept that. Move on from that.

And remember, in your next relationship (should you have one) that NO WOMAN MAGICALLY TURNS INTO A CHASTE PRINCESS WHEN YOU PUT A RING ON HER. No woman's body magically stops wanting to ride every hot hung alpha stud she's around when she "falls in wuv." 

Not a one. (that's biologically healthy that is).

We are biological machines hard wired to continue the species.

Use that knowledge how you will. Grow stronger from it. See through the lies, the BS. Sex is sex.


----------



## bandit.45

Let's quit talkin about RDMU. He is a weakling cuckold who wasted his and everyone else's time. 

Tired of seeing all this web space taken up trying to figure out that guy. He's in the past. He's in a hell of his own making.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xakulax

Ok can someone give me a brief summary of this RDMU guy I can't find anything about him


----------



## bandit.45

He's a weakling **** who's wife repeatedly cheats on him in the most abominable ways and he keeps taking her back. Last time he caught her she was sex slave for one of their neighbors. She likes the rough kinky stuff from as many strange men as she can hook up with. But when she's at home with RDMU and the kids she's Gracie Allen. That's all you need to know. 

She's fvcked up and he's even more fvcked up for staying around and tolerating it. Yet here at TAM he actually has a gaggle of followers. He's like a **** Messiah or something. I don't get it. So she wants an open marriage now huh? Not surprised. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70

bandit.45 said:


> He's a weakling **** who's wife repeatedly cheats on him in the most abominable ways and he keeps taking her back. Last time he caught her she was sex slave for one of their neighbors. She likes the rough kinky stuff from as many strange men as she can hook up with. But when she's at home with RDMU and the kids she's Gracie Allen. That's all you need to know.
> 
> She's fvcked up and he's even more fvcked up for staying around and tolerating it. Yet here at TAM he actually has a gaggle of followers. He's like a **** Messiah or something. I don't get it. So she wants an open marriage now huh? Not surprised.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you talking about the guy whose wife had the sex thing in her wedding dress? What does the acronym RDMU stand for? Plus, I thought it was proven that guy was a troll?

ETA: Nevermind, I was thinking of Tover.


----------



## LongWalk

I read RDMU original thread. But that was deleted wasn't it? Weightlifter put something up for him but I didn't read it. Now you say they are in R and she wants an open marriage? Is that hearsay or Weightlifter is telling this for RDMU?

That is mind boggling.

RDMU is a very smart guy. I would not insult him by calling him a cuckold messiah. If he doesn't want to divorce that is his business. Everyone has to make their own choices.

Can you link to the post that says she is demanding an open marriage? Does she want to be with the SM bondage master?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

LongWalk said:


> I read RDMU original thread. But that was deleted wasn't it? Weightlifter put something up for him but I didn't read it. Now you say they are in R and she wants an open marriage? Is that hearsay or Weightlifter is telling this for RDMU?
> 
> That is mind boggling.
> 
> RDMU is a very smart guy. I would not insult him by calling him a cuckold messiah. If he doesn't want to divorce that is his business. Everyone has to make their own choices.
> 
> *Can you link to the post that says she is demanding an open marriage?* Does she want to be with the SM bondage master?


I don't think that she ever said she wanted an open marriage to him, directly.

He had a VAR in her car. She use to talk to herself while driving a lot.

He heard her say(on the VAR) something about wishing she could just have an open marriage.

She was torn between the guy that she wanted to be married to and the guy that she wanted to have kinky sex with.

The reason that many of us start to tweak when this OP's name is mentioned is he had her dead to rights. Was "90%" sure that he would D. If he took her back, it would be as a GF, on probation.

He confronted and never really posted anything in detail after that. He folded like a cheap tent and ran head long into R.

He should have at least filed D and made her sweat it out for a while, before he bowed. What a waste.


----------



## badkarma2013

marduk said:


> Dude, I know this is very, very hard... but in all likelihood the reason she would do that stuff with him and not with you...
> 
> Is that she's more attracted to him than she is to you.
> 
> It's not about love. It's not about compassion. It's not about respect, remorse, commitment, betrayal, or any of those things.
> 
> It's about crazy sex from a guy she wanted. She wanted to be a knock-down crazy ho with him. And not with you.
> 
> Accept that. Move on from that.
> 
> And remember, in your next relationship (should you have one) that NO WOMAN MAGICALLY TURNS INTO A CHASTE PRINCESS WHEN YOU PUT A RING ON HER. No woman's body magically stops wanting to ride every hot hung alpha stud she's around when she "falls in wuv."
> 
> Not a one. (that's biologically healthy that is).
> 
> We are biological machines hard wired to continue the species.
> 
> Use that knowledge how you will. Grow stronger from it. See through the lies, the BS. Sex is sex.


This guy was (OM) 50 lbs over weight ..loud and just a gross MotherFU%^ER...not the best prospect on the block......but he talked a good game and had power BEFORE I HAD THEM FIRED...

It Now is not so much about the sex...IT THE LIES DECEIT AND BETRYAL , we all suffer here...Just GODD%$N tell me ive found someone and im going to LEAVE...FILE FOR D OR F^%K THEIR BRAINS OUT...that i could have handeled BETTER THAN what happened..

I make mid 6 figures...she drove every imported car made...pool..7000 sq foot house trips to europe...you get the point...
wanted for nothing and MAYBE THATS SOME THE PROBLEM...

OUR sex life was good just not that GOOD...

WELL they found their own BADKARMA as we all did.


----------



## LongWalk

Grounder Pounder,

I followed RDMU's thread. I think he did well. He was very savvy. He understood TAM quickly and used it as a think tank so that he could figure out every angle. He went from being the needy to being the giver to the thread followers who became emotionally involved. He had compassion and kept the thread going although he already had control of the situation.

For him the key was immediate total remorse from his wife and he got that. She folded instantly. Her interest in OM was sex.

Have you read the thread Weightlifter started about RDMU?

RDMU did say he was going to destroy Boob's marriage. Don't know if he followed through on that or not.


----------



## Chaparral

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah, and she'd gotten into enough of the "literature" on her new "lifestyle" to know that she was going to "hate" what was up ahead, like being put with women and lent to other doms. She was looking forward to "hating" it until D-Day.


I fully believe she would have/will go down that road. But what she was talking about was things he was already doing to her. She was doing thins she didn't like to get the things she did like. She was talking to herself, I doubt she would lie to herself but it could just be denial I suppose.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

LongWalk said:


> I read RDMU original thread. But that was deleted wasn't it? Weightlifter put something up for him but I didn't read it. Now you say they are in R and she wants an open marriage? Is that hearsay or Weightlifter is telling this for RDMU?
> 
> That is mind boggling.
> 
> RDMU is a very smart guy. I would not insult him by calling him a cuckold messiah. If he doesn't want to divorce that is his business. Everyone has to make their own choices.
> 
> Can you link to the post that says she is demanding an open marriage? Does she want to be with the SM bondage master?


No open marriage, but go read the summary. He has accepted total blame and some of what he agreed to in the summary is, IMO, a total history rewrite.



xakulax said:


> Ok can someone give me a brief summary of this RDMU guy I can't find anything about him


Every summary will be different. Basically, RDMU suspected his wife was cheating, tracked her, he waited a few months as he confronted too early and she cooled it down, hired a PI and eventually busted his wife doing BDSM (50 Shades of Gray) with a guy they had a timeshare with. Then, when weightlifter was ready to post a"summary," both threads were deleted. A few of us believe it was done to prevent "fact" checking. Fact is in quotes because it was RDMU side only, but there are quite a few discrepancy IMO.



Chaparral said:


> But what she was talking about was things he was already doing to her. She was doing thins she didn't like to get the things she did like. She was talking to herself, I doubt she would lie to herself but it could just be denial I suppose.


Thank you. .


----------



## manticore

LongWalk said:


> For him the key was immediate total remorse from his wife and he got that......
> 
> RDMU did say he was going to destroy Boob's marriage. Don't know if he followed through on that or not.


 I think we read differents threads, because precisely the reason why I stopped reading anything related to RDMU almost one year ago, was because his wife keep thinking that BOB was a nice guy, RDMU began to say to other users to stop insisting in exposure and he rugsweep most of what happened even when according to him BOB was targeting another men's wives he was planning doing nothing about it, and in a final act of shame he was trying to imitate bob moves in bed to please his wife


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

manticore said:


> BOB was targeting another men's wives he was planning doing nothing about it, and in a final act of shame he was trying to imitate bob moves in bed to please his wife


I thought I was the only one that remembered that and weighhtlifter's defense. I applaud lifter for all of his help, but that's when I KNEW RDMU was reconciling, he was going to accept all of the blame, he wasn't going to out OM to protect his wife and the cuckold comments were going to start.


----------



## ThePheonix

manticore said:


> so women can not feel desired for another man while in love with the one they are dating.


Of course they can feel an attraction to another man. But I'll stick by what I said that if they have a high romantic interest in the husbands, they won't act on it. If they did, all married women would have boyfriends. When a gal is willing to do something with other guys she thinks would be sick and disgusting with you, it goes a little deeper than her thinking, "I have too much respect for my husband and marriage to be that much of a ho." Take my word for it.


----------



## GusPolinski

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I don't think that she ever said she wanted an open marriage to him, directly.
> 
> He had a VAR in her car. She use to talk to herself while driving a lot.
> 
> He heard her say(on the VAR) something about wishing she could just have an open marriage.
> 
> She was torn between the guy that she wanted to be married to and the guy that she wanted to have kinky sex with.
> 
> The reason that many of us start to tweak when this OP's name is mentioned is he had her dead to rights. Was "90%" sure that he would D. If he took her back, it would be as a GF, on probation.
> 
> He confronted and never really posted anything in detail after that. He folded like a cheap tent and ran head long into R.
> 
> He should have at least filed D and made her sweat it out for a while, before he bowed. What a waste.


I want to say that he heard her say something along the lines of "I don't understand why we can't just have sex w/ other people..." while she was talking to herself in one of the VAR recordings.


----------



## Nucking Futs

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No open marriage, but go read the summary. He has accepted total blame and some of what he agreed to in the summary is, IMO, a total history rewrite.
> 
> Every summary will be different. Basically, RDMU suspected his wife was cheating, tracked her, he waited a few months as he confronted too early and she cooled it down, hired a PI and eventually busted his wife doing BDSM (50 Shades of Gray) with a guy they had a timeshare with. *Then, when weightlifter was ready to post a"summary," both threads were deleted.* A few of us believe it was done to prevent "fact" checking. Fact is in quotes because it was RDMU side only, but there are quite a few discrepancy IMO.
> 
> Thank you. .


I was glad when the threads were deleted. I'd be permabanned by now if they hadn't been. My last ban was 7 days for using the dirty c word to the wrong person.


----------



## Ripper

I checked the thread about this put up in the private section. Rage quit. There are actually people who seem to support his wife.

Women who at like his wife are horrible, men who put up with it are even worse.

You want to have a life after infidelity? Be more like badkarma2013 and nothing like RDMU.


----------



## Squeakr

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> He should have at least filed D and made her sweat it out for a while, before he bowed. What a waste.


The one thing I do know about the RDMU situation is that he couldn't just file for D and let her sweat it for a while. He could have filed separation order and moved out but he can't file for D until he had lived in a separate location from her for 1 year and 1 day then and only then can he file for D. 

Not defending him or his choices just saying that there is no immediate D threat available within his state and when the separation order is filed then from that point forward, they are considered somewhat as single and dating and any new sex with others is not able to be considered in the D proceeding, just that prior to the D. Since he would be living separate from her he would have not control over her actions and if he cared to R then in his case it would never be able to happen, as if he can't keep her in line when sharing a house imagine how it would be when he has no way or rights to track her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

LongWalk said:


> Grounder Pounder,
> 
> I followed RDMU's thread. I think he did well. He was very savvy. He understood TAM quickly and used it as a think tank so that he could figure out every angle. He went from being the needy to being the giver to the thread followers who became emotionally involved. He had compassion and kept the thread going although he already had control of the situation.
> 
> For him the key was immediate total remorse from his wife and he got that. She folded instantly. Her interest in OM was sex.
> 
> *Have you read the thread Weightlifter started about RDMU?*
> 
> RDMU did say he was going to destroy Boob's marriage. Don't know if he followed through on that or not.


Yes, I have. a fellow TAMer PM'd me about it. I think that he may have remembered how worked up I had gotten in the original thread. He asked my opinion about the OP, WS, etc..

I've been trying to stay away from that thread though. As someone mentioned here, there seem to be a lot of posters that are defending RDMU's FWW.

It's no secret how I feel about her and I'm trying not post about it in that thread anymore. I said my piece so no need to bang heads with everyone in there any longer.

As far as I know the OP never outed, or did anything to boob. Some think that he backed down to save face and to avoid damaging his R attempt.

I immediately thought it was due to photos, videos and/or information the boob had of RDMU's wife that stopped him from exposing.

A "You come after me and everyone's going to see what your wife has been doing when we had sex!". If this is the case, I can understand why he'd back down. Visions of all his family and friends getting an anonymous Christmas card - With his wife hog tied, sporting a butt plug and some other mans goo all over her face... I could understand backing down if this were the case.

Though, this would have been one of the MANY reasons I would have D'd and not R'd.


----------



## lordmayhem

:scratchhead:


bandit.45 said:


> Let's quit talkin about RDMU. He is a weakling cuckold who wasted his and everyone else's time.
> 
> Tired of seeing all this web space taken up trying to figure out that guy. He's in the past. He's in a hell of his own making.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree: 

It was a complete waste of time. All he did was talk a good game.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

GusPolinski said:


> I want to say that he heard her say something along the lines of "I don't understand why we can't just have sex w/ other people..." while she was talking to herself in one of the VAR recordings.


That was it. You've got a good memory.

The way that she talked to herself seemed a little unusual to me. I mean, I know plenty of people that talk to them selves, but they do it more to hear what they're thinking, out loud. Usually when trying to work out/through a problem.

She seemed to do it as a regular conversation. A good girl, bad girl thing. Talking herself in to, or out of doing things that she should, or shouldn't do.


----------



## treyvion

bandit.45 said:


> He's a weakling **** who's wife repeatedly cheats on him in the most abominable ways and he keeps taking her back. Last time he caught her she was sex slave for one of their neighbors. She likes the rough kinky stuff from as many strange men as she can hook up with. But when she's at home with RDMU and the kids she's Gracie Allen. That's all you need to know.
> 
> She's fvcked up and he's even more fvcked up for staying around and tolerating it. Yet here at TAM he actually has a gaggle of followers. He's like a **** Messiah or something. I don't get it. So she wants an open marriage now huh? Not surprised.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"**** messiah", so we have one of the most popular cucks on the internet, here on TAM? How do you live through the humiliation of being forced into the **** position? A neighbor? Thats very close to home. He has no idea how freeing and how much dignity and self respect returns after you remove a person who is doing your life bad, out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I immediately thought it was due to photos, videos and/or information the boob had of RDMU's wife that stopped him from exposing.
> 
> A "You come after me and everyone's going to see what your wife has been doing when we had sex!". If this is the case, I can understand why he'd back down. Visions of all his family and friends getting an anonymous Christmas card - With his wife hog tied, sporting a butt plug and some other mans goo all over her face... I could understand backing down if this were the case.
> 
> Though, this would have been one of the MANY reasons I would have D'd and not R'd.


If that was the case, I would have posted the stuff to every internet site and public restroom stall myself, then kicked the skank to the curb. The way it sounds, she would probably like the humiliation.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Squeakr said:


> The one thing I do know about the RDMU situation is that he couldn't just file for D and let her sweat it for a while. He could have filed separation order and moved out but he can't file for D until he had lived in a separate location from her for 1 year and 1 day then and only then can he file for D.
> 
> Not defending him or his choices just saying that there is no immediate D threat available within his state and when the separation order is filed then from that point forward, they are considered somewhat as single and dating and any new sex with others is not able to be considered in the D proceeding, just that prior to the D. *Since he would be living separate from her he would have not control over her actions and if he cared to R then in his case it would never be able to happen, as if he can't keep her in line when sharing a house imagine how it would be when he has no way or rights to track her?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The "If you love something, set it free" quote comes to mind here.

What better way to find out if she is truly remorseful and want's to stay married? He had learned how to spy on her from TAM. He tells her, "We are separating for up to a year. If I even suspect that you have been unfaithful again, when that year is up, we D". I know, I know, it sounds good, but living else where for up to a year would probably tough.

The saddest part is because he wants to be with her so bad and go through so much to keep her - It'll be the very reason that she starts thinking about stepping out again. The curse of the "nice guy". 

I hope he at least looked into a post-nup'.


----------



## Squeakr

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> The "If you love something, set it free" quote comes to mind here.
> 
> What better way to find out if she is truly remorseful and want's to stay married? He had learned how to spy on her from TAM. He tells her, "We are separating for up to a year. If I even suspect that you have been unfaithful again, when that year is up, we D". I know, I know, it sounds good, but living else where for up to a year would probably tough.
> 
> The saddest part is because he wants to be with her so bad and go through so much to keep her - It'll be the very reason that she starts thinking about stepping out again. The curse of the "nice guy".
> 
> I hope he at least looked into a post-nup'.


Agreed on all accounts. Then again she doesn't seem like the type to stop, so living apart is just ending it, and that would leave him in a position to not be able to check up on her "legally". I also don't know his situation but maybe living apart is not financially possible either. A mortgage and apartment rental can be killer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manticore

ThePheonix said:


> Of course they can feel an attraction to another man. But I'll stick by what I said that if they have a high romantic interest in the husbands, they won't act on it. If they did, all married women would have boyfriends. When a gal is willing to do something with other guys she thinks would be sick and disgusting with you, it goes a little deeper than her thinking, "I have too much respect for my husband and marriage to be that much of a ho." Take my word for it.


you have a romantic but innocent notion of love and relationships, that is not bad just innocent.

As I say in other thread I am a romatic at heart and even like to hear stories of people that waited to have their first time with the love of their lives or spouse, but even if a like those kind of stories I am not that kind of person.

I was a womanizer for a while (no, not married women, single women between their 20 -30) during my 20's and I got alot of women to do acts that they said that were digusting or denigrating (not just for them but for their gender in general) and still all with whom I wanted to try them I did it in the end, it was not that hard, I dated them for a while took them to the best night clubs of the city in the VIP zone paying for their and their friends bills, and when I knew they were hooked with me I began to push for the things I wanted, as I told you many resisted in the beginning, But I came with a phrase like *"I don't see myself dating sexual inhibited women I think we are not compatible"* if they still resisted after that then I just stopped contacting them and if they tried to contact me I just said I was bussy or that I already have plans, you know what it worked the 100% of the time, some of them even came with ideas of what to do.

I am sure that if Badkarma at the beginning of his relationship had pushed to have those acts he would have been sucessfully, but you want to know the Irony, we don't do it with women with whom we actually care (not in agressive form at least and yes the classic madonna-wh0re complex), if any of these women I dated had answer me "no I don't want to do it and we should stop seeing each other", I would have not cared 2 cents about it, but if my GF (of 3 years) see me with a hurt face or build resentment for forcing her to do something she does not want I do care, is the same with the OMs, if their flings said no and stop, they don't care they just find another fling, that is why they can push so easily, because they don't care about these women, that is the same reason that for revenge badkarma's OM went a ruined any possiblity of reconcilation for badkarma's wife showing him the pictures, because he just did'nt care about the woman, for him it was just sex all along.

I knew that sharing this story would probably put me in a bad light but I have been trying to said to badkarma in all the thread that what his wife did is nothing related to him, that what the OM did does not make him unique or special or superior to him, is something that anyone can do, the reason he acchived what he did with his XW is because he did not care for her at all so he could push and push because losing her for him was not a problem.


----------



## LongWalk

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> The "If you love something, set it free" quote comes to mind here.
> 
> What better way to find out if she is truly remorseful and want's to stay married? He had learned how to spy on her from TAM. He tells her, "We are separating for up to a year. If I even suspect that you have been unfaithful again, when that year is up, we D". I know, I know, it sounds good, but living else where for up to a year would probably tough.
> 
> The saddest part is because he wants to be with her so bad and go through so much to keep her - It'll be the very reason that she starts thinking about stepping out again. The curse of the "nice guy".
> 
> I hope he at least looked into a post-nup'.


Do you have a link to this decision by RDMU?


----------



## davecarter

manticore said:


> The PM is not from somebody close to RDMU or weightlifter, is just form another user with whom I discussed briefly the RDMU's case and told me what was being discussed in the newest thread.
> 
> Like I wrote here I really have been trying to avoid to read any news or updates about RDMU, because after one post he did around August of last year it was clear to me that he was not going to expose the OM, he was not going to enforce consequences for any part, he was going to rugsweep most of what happened and in a way he was going to take blame for the affair and assign the reamining blame to BOB, depicting his WW as the poor vicitim of a evil manipulator.
> 
> there is nothing for me to do there other than silently whising for RDMU's happiness and for BOB's karma buss, but unfortunatly I believe that neither of those things will happen if RDMU continues with the path he have already choosen.


Manticore - there's not an awful lot of the 'Diary' thread to really explain what happened, post D-Day other than it appears a full, 100% Rug-sweep...er....I mean, Reconciliation has been going on.
WL's thread was basically there to point out:
*The Dangers and Risks Of Sexually Neglecting Your Wife.*

I identify with RDMU's situation because I did exactly the same thing with my wife: 18 months. 0 sex.
And to be honest, before that, sex was pretty 'functional'.
Where my situation differs to his is, my wife and I had a short-fuse situation going on which always led to at least, big stand-up screaming matches to full-on fights.

So, things she did with OM?
She told me in no uncertain terms, he was a lot rougher with her...varied with positions (in particular, certain positions that apparently only really work when the OM is well-hung)...the only stuff I knew she was doing from a BDSM PoV was stuff I also found in her closet when I went over one weekend during our separation: 9" vibrating-c0ck, leather-paddle, grey silk ties, a blindfold, c0ck-rings, PVC-thong, fishnet stockings...blah-blah...

The copy of '50 Shades Of Grey' was usually left on the kitchen-table when I'd return home to see our kids at weekends.
(which she still claims is a _"ridiculously written book...but it triggers off some great ideas"_)


----------



## badkarma2013

........POSTED BY MANTICORE.....I am sure that if Badkarma at the beginning of his relationship had pushed to have those acts he would have been sucessfully, but you want to know the Irony, we don't do it with women with whom we actually care (not in agressive form at least and yes the classic madonna-wh0re complex), if any of these women I dated had answer me "no I don't want to do it and we should stop seeing each other", I would have not cared 2 cents about it, but if my GF (of 3 years) see me with a hurt face or build resentment for forcing her to do something she does not want I do care, is the same with the OMs, if their flings said no and stop, they don't care they just find another fling, that is why they can push so easily, because they don't care about these women, that is the same reason that for revenge badkarma's OM went a ruined any possiblity of reconcilation for badkarma's wife showing him the pictures, because he just did'nt care about the woman, for him it was just sex all along.

I knew that sharing this story would probably put me in a bad light but I have been trying to said to badkarma in all the thread that what his wife did is nothing related to him, that what the OM did does not make him unique or special or superior to him, is something that anyone can do, the reason he acchived what he did with his XW is because he did not care for her at all so he could push and push because losing her for him was not a problem.


MY GOD ...It just came to me THATS IT......I got that much info...waiting to file for D....my EX said in one our calmer moments ...the OM presented these things and her words PUSHED AND PUSHED UNTIL I DID WHAT HE WANTED!

I have a D ex military friend ...who dates...on the second or third date, he will tell the woman hes with...IF THE SEX IS NOT GOOD WE HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP...so we may as well go ahead and get it out of the way!!

I AM AMAZED how many women ...mostly recently Divorced...will do D&*N near anything with him...


If they wont he cuts it off at that monent...because hes not AFRAID of losing THEM......


THANK AGAIN for your insight!


----------



## arbitrator

couple said:


> One of life's lessons that has horrified me is just how much cheating is done with complete reckless abandon and without holding anything back out of some semblance of respect for the partner. When it's done, it's often done in a very big way.


*Let me begin by saying that I am preemptively probably the most naive guy here at TAM!

Educated? Yes, for the most part! 
Common Sense? I'd sure like to think so!
Religious? Proudly, one who will question things ~ but not a total fanatic about it.
Trusting of people? Only until they do something to betray that trust.
Gullible? Unquestionably!

You tell me something, I will take it at face value as the absolute truth unless I have some reason to think that perhaps you're kidding and then I'll probably offer some form of humorous reciprocity and kid back.

Having lived through being blatantly and deceptively cheated on, it never occurred for me to querry my brides as to whether they had been unfaithful in any of their prior relationships. Truth be known, to ask them such a pointed question wood seem to be perhaps the biggest insult in the world! Because there is the assumed mantra there that respectable loving Christian people just do not do that, or would ever entertain doing it!

There are inherent signals within any marital relationship that perhaps things are not going as well as one might believe. Then the romantic contact all but ceases, the caustic comments/remarks come out into full play, and the time spent together starts becoming something of being at an absolute premium.

In retrospect, I have slowly came to see how that worked in envisioning what went on with my rich, skanky XW. ~ she ultimately reached some very large semblance of unattachment, placated that by getting herself ardently involved on FB, a medium that she had never heretofore involved herself with, and hooked up with two men from her past ~ her HS boyfriend, and her deceased husbands best workplace friend.

The flirting and the platitudes between them fastly escalated, memories of their prior "closeness" were rekindled to where in the steps of logical progression, trips were made to these men's domiciles to to some neutral setting to eventually effect the gradualistic physical contact with them, all with out my knowledge while I was being fed a line about her having to make out of town trips to effect her business, when that had never even been a prerequisite before.

She's unattached, get's nothing out of sex with me as her H, summarily misses the excitement of some hopefully horny guy in making a pass at her for her having made some sex-infused flirtation to them.

In her minds eye, the marriage is essentially over! She has "blocked her Hubby out!" She's single again. Off in some out-of-town swanky hotel room in their locale, she becomes the single, liberated, irresponsible woman once again, where the liquor cabinet is broken open, joint drinking leads to emboldened "romantic" touching and feeling, and then the drawers are summarily dropped to the floor for the sheer experience of some aura of romantic sex with him. And in showing that liberation, she works so feverishly in pleasing her new paramour that she'll largely do or participate in anything most sexually imaginable with her new BF to keep his interest in her maximally peaked. Add to the fact that no protection is worn ~ since she's over the hill inasfar as child-bearing is concerned ~ and she can't very well get pregnant in her 50's. 

Besides those intoxicating attributes of what their joint "skin-on-skin" copulation offers, and not caring in the least if her paramour should bother losing his load in her, in her mind's eye, she no longer has a viable husband at home ~ to her, he's little more than the live-in, part-time caretaker of her domestic assets ~ just a "step and fetch it," if you will!

So after a rather nice couple of days of this distant satisfying raunch, she finally returns home, "deceptively" greets her hubby, catches him in the bedroom and beckons him to bed for sex, where he feels like he's got to be feeling that he's got the greatest wife in the world. Except that she's probably doing it for two primary reasons:

1. To deflect any suspicion on the hubby's part for not having had sex with her for any inordinate amount of time, and

2. To get some innate, perhaps warped sense of entitlement to pleasure in having her hubby fool around with her body, knowing that perhaps just mere hours prior, her BF had had her and by doing so, she's deceptively making hubby into some kind of an unknowing cuckold by having him do normal marital things to her, all while she's totally aware that her BF's seed is likely still up in her!

And all of this largely continues to go on until her hubby's market value plummets to absolute zero, at which time, she so caringly suggests a "trial separation" in which to fastly establish the beginning of the end!

Knowing full well for herself as to what the end result is going to be! And then gradually, the separation occurs, and then the legal wheels start rolling ever faster toward oblivion, her final clandestine goal.

IMHO, that's just one man's opinion of how the deceptive mind of a cheating wife works! Or at least the jaded, deceptive mind of my rich, skanky, self-entitled XW!*


----------



## badkarma2013

TO MANTICORE:

I knew that sharing this story would probably put me in a bad light but I have been trying to said to badkarma in all the thread that what his wife did is nothing related to him, that what the OM did does not make him unique or special or superior to him, is something that anyone can do, the reason he acchived what he did with his XW is because he did not care for her at all so he could push and push because losing her for him was not a problem.

THis statement has meant MORE to me as a BH than you can possiably imagine with regard to my healing....

Im learning to place the WEIGHT and the RESPONSIBILITY of this NIGHTMARE where it BELONGS..on HER SHOULDERS NOT MINE....

I will admit that sometimes the things that were shown to me...COME BACK with a VENGEANCE....but they are less frequent than when i first saw them...

And support like Manticore has shown ...Im on the right path...Again many THANKS.


----------



## treyvion

You guys have nailed why a cheating spouse may give an affair partner more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thummper

So, BK, what is your ex up to these days? Has she made efforts to reconcile with you? You say you got them both fired, so how is she faring economically? Did the D cost you a bundle? What about the POSOM, do you know what he's doing? Lots of questions. Best of luck to you in your future. If my wife had done what yours did, divorce would have been immediate and I would never marry again, either. :smthumbup:


----------



## badkarma2013

thummper said:


> So, BK, what is your ex up to these days? Has she made efforts to reconcile with you? You say you got them both fired, so how is she faring economically? Did the D cost you a bundle? What about the POSOM, do you know what he's doing? Lots of questions. Best of luck to you in your future. If my wife had done what yours did, divorce would have been immediate and I would never marry again, either. :smthumbup:


Hey Thumper....As i have stated ...I fuc%$ng napalmed his entire life...His wife KILLED him in his D...to my knowledge ( thru other sources)...He will not SPEAK to my EXW..and has left the area...

When she KNEW i had seen the pics of her...She crumbled...i ruined her with them to her family and friends...

I heard she left that field she was in..NO F-ing KIDDING...and went back into real estate in a mid sized city about 75 miles from me.

she got a fair cash settlement in the D and i got a RESTRAINING ORDER...We have not spoken since the D...

Why the F*&K would I ..RIGHT?

Thanks for asking.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

LongWalk said:


> Do you have a link to this decision by RDMU?


If your asking about his decision to R, it was posted in his original thread, that's long since been deleted. He never gave us much insight as to how, or why he decided to attempt R. They have a child, so I would imagine that had a lot to do with it.

The rest of my post is basically from what many of use suggested he do, if he were to attempt R. Tell her he is filing for D. She has until the first court date to win him back. The ball would be in her court after that. She would have to swim, or sink by her own actions. He seemed to have embraced this idea until the confrontation.

We'll never know if she had it in her to "win" him back through her own actions. I think he was worried that if he gave here to lose a reign, she'd blow it. Now he gets to play warden for who knows how long. I hope she is worth it.


----------



## manticore

so I am guessing that you have no kids together.

in that regard cutting all communication with your XWW is one of the best ways to move on and detach completely, probably one of the reasons many BS have so hard time moving on is that they have to see or hear about their XWW even if they really don't want to, shich slows down the whole process.


----------



## bandit.45

badkarma2013 said:


> Hey Thumper....As i have stated ...I fuc%$ng napalmed his entire life...His wife KILLED him in his D...to my knowledge ( thru other sources)...He will not SPEAK to my EXW..and has left the area...
> 
> When she KNEW i had seen the pics of her...She crumbled...i ruined her with them to her family and friends...
> 
> I heard she left that field she was in..NO F-ing KIDDING...and went back into real estate in a mid sized city about 75 miles from me.
> 
> she got a fair cash settlement in the D and i got a RESTRAINING ORDER...We have not spoken since the D...
> 
> Why the F*&K would I ..RIGHT?
> 
> Thanks for asking.


So did she beg you not to D? 

Did she seek R during the divorce?

Or did she just run away in shame?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badkarma2013

manticore said:


> you have no kids together?


Hey Man...She had One son...I DID NOT ADOPT.


----------



## badkarma2013

bandit.45 said:


> So did she beg you not to D?
> 
> Did she seek R during the divorce?
> 
> Or did she just run away in shame?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The best way i can call it now....When she found out I saw the pics and had them on a flash drive (DUMBA*S OM LEFT THAT with me and said something for you to look at THATS WHO YOUR WIFE REALLY IS) ...SHE CRASHED and burned.....WHO SHE REALLY WAS WAS THERE IN LIVING COLOR....

BEFORE....LIED AND BEGGED UP to that point...The home is in my name only...I told her to leave or i would make sure everybody she had even a passing acquaintance WOULD SEE THEM...she left and I showed them anyway..

By the way...i gave his wifes D ATTY. copies and THAT SEALED 
THAT BAST$#DS FATE...

Again BADKARMA indeed.......

MY lawsuit got both of them fired and that was that ...


----------



## Chaparral

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Yes, I have. a fellow TAMer PM'd me about it. I think that he may have remembered how worked up I had gotten in the original thread. He asked my opinion about the OP, WS, etc..
> 
> I've been trying to stay away from that thread though. As someone mentioned here, there seem to be a lot of posters that are defending RDMU's FWW.
> 
> It's no secret how I feel about her and I'm trying not post about it in that thread anymore. I said my piece so no need to bang heads with everyone in there any longer.
> 
> As far as I know the OP never outed, or did anything to boob. Some think that he backed down to save face and to avoid damaging his R attempt.
> 
> I immediately thought it was due to photos, videos and/or information the boob had of RDMU's wife that stopped him from exposing.
> 
> A "You come after me and everyone's going to see what your wife has been doing when we had sex!". If this is the case, I can understand why he'd back down. Visions of all his family and friends getting an anonymous Christmas card - With his wife hog tied, sporting a butt plug and some other mans goo all over her face... I could understand backing down if this were the case.
> 
> Though, this would have been one of the MANY reasons I would have D'd and not R'd.


If my memory is correct, boob has been put on cheaterville. The wife was informed I think but I don't think she did anything with the info.


----------



## badkarma2013

Chaparral said:


> If my memory is correct, boob has been put on cheaterville. The wife was informed I think but I don't think she did anything with the info.



I SHOWED THEM MYSELF....I wanted EVERYONE to know WHAT SHE WAS and that there would be NO COMING BACK!

By showing the family (hers and mine)...I could tell the TRUTH and left Damaged but still STANDING...That in and of itself DID MORE DAMAGE THAN ANYTHING I COULD EVEN REMOTELY THOUGHT OF....


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

davecarter said:


> *The Dangers and Risks Of Sexually Neglecting Your Wife.*


See and this is why I left the other thread and this will be my last post on this subject. 

This is why people think he is a ****. I can't go in the orignal threads, get the posts where he tried, cajoled, asked, begged, attempted light BDSM, and his wife still stopped giving him sex. Sorry, that's not neglect, that's rejection in my book. Yes, at some point people just accept no. Go read the debate threads, when women say I am in pain, you BETTER wait until she is healthy. I've seen it derail threads and male posters get slapped around for suggesting anything different. Yet, RDMU is neglectful for following this unwritten rule.

Yes, I know we will disagree and that's fine, I'm am not calling you or anyone wrong. Heck, I am not going to sit here and say my recollection is the best and I am the only one that is right.

I'm putting out my memory of that thread and that is it for me.


----------



## xakulax

It never seizes to amaze me how stupid some WS can be why would anyone with half of an amoebas thought in there mind take pictures of there affair :scratchhead: badkarma2013 not only was your x a sh#ty human being but also full-fledged moron.


----------



## aug

badkarma2013 said:


> Hey Man...She had One son...I DID NOT ADOPT.



Was she a single mother? If so, what reason did she give for being a single mother? Was she married once to her son's father?


----------



## sidney2718

lovelygirl said:


> Why do women think they'd be consider a **** if let their DH know about their inner and wild sex desires??
> 
> Is it because deep down men think women are sl*ts if they behave like that?
> Women who think that, must've gotten this reaction from their man.
> Are men this way?
> 
> They want her to be wild but yet again they think she's a sl* if she does with him what she could do with her AP.


Yup. Many guys ARE that way.


----------



## sidney2718

Chaparral said:


> Many here see revenge as a very bad thing. I see it as a preventive measure. How many people will see what happened to two cheaters and think twice before going down the same road.


Very few. The jails are filled with folks who knew what might happen and that didn't stop them for a minute. 

We humans are very strange folks. And one of our most strange things is that we are very bad at evaluating the results of our actions.


----------



## sidney2718

badkarma2013 said:


> This guy was (OM) 50 lbs over weight ..loud and just a gross MotherFU%^ER...not the best prospect on the block......but he talked a good game and had power BEFORE I HAD THEM FIRED...
> 
> It Now is not so much about the sex...IT THE LIES DECEIT AND BETRYAL , we all suffer here...Just GODD%$N tell me ive found someone and im going to LEAVE...FILE FOR D OR F^%K THEIR BRAINS OUT...that i could have handeled BETTER THAN what happened..
> 
> I make mid 6 figures...she drove every imported car made...pool..7000 sq foot house trips to europe...you get the point...
> wanted for nothing and MAYBE THATS SOME THE PROBLEM...
> 
> OUR sex life was good just not that GOOD...
> 
> WELL they found their own BADKARMA as we all did.


Did you take care of her emotional needs as well? Women are not men and very often do not view sex as being separate from other needs.


----------



## tom67

sidney2718 said:


> Did you take care of her emotional needs as well? Women are not men and very often do not view sex as being separate from other needs.


Sidney she was banging her boss and doing things with him and refused to with badkarma.:scratchhead::scratchhead:


----------



## lordmayhem

xakulax said:


> It never seizes to amaze me how stupid some WS can be why would anyone with half of an amoebas thought in there mind take pictures of there affair :scratchhead: badkarma2013 not only was your x a sh#ty human being but also full-fledged moron.


That blows my mind as well. It's one thing for a married or committed couple to photograph their sexual escapades (to each their own), but to document their cheating? Its crazy. Yet we see this all the time.


----------



## bandit.45

sidney2718 said:


> Did you take care of her emotional needs as well? Women are not men and very often do not view sex as being separate from other needs.


Explain to me how sex acts such as anal, BDSM, deepthroating, rough sex, and the like are meeting a woman 's emotional needs? 

See you have it backwards: She was into the OM for the sex and because she got off on her boss desiring her. OP was her emotional anchor... Her plan B... Her safe landing pad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

sidney2718 said:


> Did you take care of her emotional needs as well? Women are not men and very often do not view sex as being separate from other needs.


Sounds like cheaterspeak to me. That's like the number one excuse for affairs. Frankly, I'm sick of the "needy" excuse. Its almost as if you're implying that women are emotionally needy, and if they aren't waited on hand and foot, they'll cheat.

His XW, for 22 years, told him that stuff he like was sick and disgusting, yet she gave it freely and easily to the OM. She neglected his sexual needs but gave everything to the OM. This is typical for women and men in affairs. Cheating men will do things for their OW that they would never do for their BW. The dopamine high they get from their affair means very little things are off limits. 

And that's the most hurtful things about affairs as a BS, that your WS would do all the things that they refused to do with you, neglecting your needs, but going all out for the OM/OW.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Explain to me how sex acts such as anal, BDSM, deepthroating, rough sex, and the like are meeting a woman 's emotional needs?
> 
> See you have it backwards: She was into the OM for the sex and because she got off on her boss desiring her. OP was her emotional anchor... Her plan B... Her safe landing pad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:
Things That Make You Go Hmmmm.... - YouTube


----------



## sidney2718

tom67 said:


> Sidney she was banging her boss and doing things with him and refused to with badkarma.:scratchhead::scratchhead:


I understand all that. The post by badkarma to which I responded listed all the material things he did for her but didn't talk at all about the emotional ones. Hence my question.


----------



## sidney2718

bandit.45 said:


> Explain to me how sex acts such as anal, BDSM, deepthroating, rough sex, and the like are meeting a woman 's emotional needs?
> 
> See you have it backwards: She was into the OM for the sex and because she got off on her boss desiring her. OP was her emotional anchor... Her plan B... Her safe landing pad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand that. But you miss the point. You even said it in the quote above. "...she got off on her boss desiring her." That's an emotional need.

And though I agree that badkarma was her safe landing pad, women's needs are often not the same as men's needs.


----------



## sidney2718

lordmayhem said:


> Sounds like cheaterspeak to me. That's like the number one excuse for affairs. Frankly, I'm sick of the "needy" excuse. Its almost as if you're implying that women are emotionally needy, and if they aren't waited on hand and foot, they'll cheat.
> 
> His XW, for 22 years, told him that stuff he like was sick and disgusting, yet she gave it freely and easily to the OM. She neglected his sexual needs but gave everything to the OM. This is typical for women and men in affairs. Cheating men will do things for their OW that they would never do for their BW. The dopamine high they get from their affair means very little things are off limits.
> 
> And that's the most hurtful things about affairs as a BS, that your WS would do all the things that they refused to do with you, neglecting your needs, but going all out for the OM/OW.


No need to rehash the story. I made no excuses for the wife. None. The points you raise about "sick and disgusting" have all been dealt with on this thread and other threads as well. Those posts ought to be re-read. In fact, they ought to be mandatory reading for every teen-ager.

The point here is to alert others walking down the same path that badkarma walked that they are missing something. Yes, there are some perfectly evil women out there in the world. There are also many men who don't understand women.

We've all read the stories of the guy who worked three jobs and was never home except to sleep. He was trying to provide his wife and family with material things that money could buy. What he did not provide were good-morning kisses and hugs.

And no, I am NOT defending cheating wives. But I do try to understand their mind-set.

By the way, does it bother anyone that there are almost no women posting in this section of the thread? That should provide a clue.

Anyway, badkarma's story is a sad one and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.


----------



## GusPolinski

sidney2718 said:


> I understand that. But you miss the point. You even said it in the quote above. "...she got off on her boss desiring her." That's an emotional need.
> 
> And though I agree that badkarma was her safe landing pad, women's needs are often not the same as men's needs.


LOL. Aside from giving his wife his explicit approval to f*ck her boss, how could he have actually met this specific need?


----------



## xakulax

sidney2718 said:


> I understand that. But you miss the point. You even said it in the quote above. "...she got off on her boss desiring her." That's an emotional need.
> 
> And though I agree that badkarma was her safe landing pad, *women's needs are often not the same as men's needs*.



This is true badkarma2013 needed a wife who was compassionate, loving,caring, attentive and loyal where his wife want to be treated like cheap french [email protected] her needs where meet what about his sidney2718


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> What he did not provide were good-morning kisses and hugs.


 Funny, I've read threads were this occurred and the wife still cheated. Then it wasn't enough affection. Then it wasn't the correct affection. Sorry, "emotional needs" is a caveat in some affair cases IMO. No, not all, but women should maker a list and compare notes. I hear the comment and then wait for the 5 million different reasons a man doesn't get it right.


> By the way, does it bother anyone that there are almost no women posting in this section of the thread?


 Nope.



> That should provide a clue.


Sure, but your clue will not be the same as mine male or female.


----------



## wranglerman

bandit.45 said:


> Explain to me how sex acts such as anal, BDSM, deepthroating, rough sex, and the like are meeting a woman 's emotional needs?


The whole sexual act or any part of the above list can fulfil an emotional need, you are focusing solely on the act and not the connection between the two people involved.

I've known women who wouldn't give BJs to one guy they dated but did to subsequent guys, same with anal, although anal can often depend on how well hung the guys are too 

Sex can fulfil emotional needs.


----------



## bandit.45

Well emotions aren't a good word. Let's call them drives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Regret214

bandit.45 said:


> Well emotions aren't a good word. Let's call them drives.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Why? It doesn't suit your argument after being proven wrong? I mean if that's how the world works we may just as well refer to Jesus as Mohammed. I mean a prophet is a prophet, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

Regret214 said:


> Why? It doesn't suit your argument after being proven wrong? I mean if that's how the world works we may just as well refer to Jesus as Mohammed. I mean a prophet is a prophet, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Regret214

LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


>


Gotta love the white teeth.


----------



## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> Gotta love the white teeth.


Ha, yeah. And the blue eyes, straight hair, relatively caucasian skin tone...


----------



## Horizon

tom67 said:


> Gotta love the white teeth.


Jesus!


----------



## bandit.45

Regret214 said:


> Why? It doesn't suit your argument after being proven wrong? I mean if that's how the world works we may just as well refer to Jesus as Mohammed. I mean a prophet is a prophet, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I'm not a cheater so I guess I wouldn't really know. I guess you're right.

Please enlighten me. I would especially like to understand where the demotions got the betrayed spouse go when the betrayer is having nasty monkey sex with their affair partner. Do all feelings and emotions for the betrayed spouses get pushed to the back of he shelf or deemed irrelevant?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelygirl

GusPolinski said:


>


hmmm..Sexy Jesus!


----------



## Squeakr

I think a good question was pondered here regarding women responding in this thread. As a BH I know that I feel betrayed when I find that the WW did things she wouldn't do with me no matter how much asking, pleading, or begging/ bargaining occurred. For the women that were betrayed do they feel the same way, or do they possibly feel relieved that they weren't subjected to some of the acts that may be considered vile or filthy that were done with the AP or is it a mixture of the two??? It just seems that we have this image (and are told such) that of we loved our wives we wouldn't subject them to such actions as it can be considered disrespectful, vile, and degrading?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## arbitrator

Squeakr said:


> I think a good question was pondered here regarding women responding in this thread. As a BH I know that I feel betrayed when I find that the WW did things she wouldn't do with me no matter how much asking, pleading, or begging/ bargaining occurred. For the women that were betrayed do they feel the same way, or do they possibly feel relieved that they weren't subjected to some of the acts that may be considered vile or filthy that were done with the AP or is it a mixture of the two??? It just seems that we have this image (and are told such) that of we loved our wives we wouldn't subject them to such actions as it can be considered disrespectful, vile, and degrading?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*I'm rather positive that there is a number of WW who absolutely love doing those "bad girl" things with their AP, that they would have never considered doing with their H, because they feel so very "checked-out" of the marriage. 

This "bad girl" mantra of theirs is going to greatly reinforce this newfound relationship of theirs, letting that AP know that, for as long as she feels a viable connection with her, for as long as he caters to her emotional needs, that she's absolutely willing to blow his doors off sexually in doing a host of kinky, desirable acts in order to show her gratitude!

But only up until the time that he stops catering to those needs of hers, or starts ignoring her altogether. Then treating him in much the same way that she did her BH, she can put herself back out there on the market to find herself yet another attentive male with a hardened appendage that she would relish in sexually turning his world upside down, greatly provided that he was willing to pay the price that she demands!*


----------



## russell28

Squeakr said:


> I think a good question was pondered here regarding women responding in this thread. As a BH I know that I feel betrayed when I find that the WW did things she wouldn't do with me no matter how much asking, pleading, or begging/ bargaining occurred. For the women that were betrayed do they feel the same way, or do they possibly feel relieved that they weren't subjected to some of the acts that may be considered vile or filthy that were done with the AP or is it a mixture of the two??? It just seems that we have this image (and are told such) that of we loved our wives we wouldn't subject them to such actions as it can be considered disrespectful, vile, and degrading?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I read stuff like this, I think "no wonder this guy never got anal sex.. if he's using begging, pleading and bargaining as foreplay".... The AP isn't begging for it.. The AP just goes for it, and she's like 'ooooh'! So yea, don't beg for x or y... slowly build up to it. I know this isn't the sex forum, but it had to be said.


----------



## LongWalk

Do women see sex as something that men have to pay for either with money/things or love/emotion or service/loyalty?

If the exchange already has defined acts and rewards, why would a woman suddenly improve the sex if it might backfire and reduce her position of advantage in the exchange.

Note: having children has been largely removed from the exchange by birth control. So men have in some sense lost negotiating power, for once a women in times past had 4 or 5 kids her ability to move on to a new man sunk. Fewer men want to take on the burden of another's children. One or two is one thing 5 or 6 is too much of an outlay.

Also, it seems from TAM threads that whenever a wife turned 37 hits the gym hard and really starts looking better, her sex ranking has gone up and she may want more. Husband is just happy with her new look but fails to up his sex ranking or in other ways adjust the exchange = marital friction/maybe infidelity.

A fWW may be willing to do things she wouldn't do before to safe the marriage, i.e, her product on the exchange has fallen in value, so she must pay more.

After Dday some WW still refuse to have sex. They have left the exchange.

As with all transactions the person who wants the deal more is at a disadvantage in the negotiation.

The is a thread now (Baxter) whose OP was dumped by his WW after Dday. She married OM who used her to pay off his debt and then left her after 5 years. She now wants Baxter back. They have two sons, which explains why he still has some contact with her. She is economically in relatively bad shape. Obviously, if he were to reconcile, she would have have whatever type of sex he wanted.


----------



## Squeakr

russell28 said:


> When I read stuff like this, I think "no wonder this guy never got anal sex.. if he's using begging, pleading and bargaining as foreplay".... The AP isn't begging for it.. The AP just goes for it, and she's like 'ooooh'! So yea, don't beg for x or y... slowly build up to it. I know this isn't the sex forum, but it had to be said.


Nice way to characterize and belittle based upon a few sentences. Bet you are a great judge of character as well aren't you? Just because I used those terms doesn't mean that is what happened and that it was the foreplay or it never happened (sometimes it just didn't happen as much as would like to be). Not all BHs are the shrews that we are perceived to be on TAM. Also not all APs just automatically tried the action and got it either. Some were shot down just like the BS and others the WS took control and just gave it out freely as they wanted it, some more than the AP wanted it. It was just a general questions aimed at the BW and how they felt and yet it somehow came down to the BH being a cuckold yet again.


----------



## russell28

Squeakr said:


> Nice way to characterize and belittle based upon a few sentences. Bet you are a great judge of character as well aren't you? Just because I used those terms doesn't mean that is what happened and that it was the foreplay or it never happened (sometimes it just didn't happen as much as would like to be). Not all BHs are the shrews that we are perceived to be on TAM. Also not all APs just automatically tried the action and got it either. Some were shot down just like the BS and others the WS took control and just gave it out freely as they wanted it, some more than the AP wanted it. It was just a general questions aimed at the BW and how they felt and yet it somehow came down to the BH being a cuckold yet again.


I wasn't speaking to you directly, just in general terms.. when I hear of men begging and pleading for anal sex, and negotiating. Sorry if you took it as a personal attack, it was more of an observation. I wasn't trying to belittle anyone, I'm not sure how my observations did that.. 

I thought you were speaking in general terms, sorry if it came across as insulting.


----------



## Regret214

I can honestly respond to the thread from the opposite end of the spectrum. The xOM got less than I've ever given Dig. See, not all affairs are about the dirty part. For me it was purely selfish. I got my satisfaction by escaping. If I was hooked on heroin, my deception would've been the same. It was about the fix and not whether it was snorted, shot up or smoked.

Not every affair is like 50 Shades.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

russell28 said:


> I wasn't speaking to you directly, just in general terms.. when I hear of men begging and pleading for anal sex, and negotiating. Sorry if you took it as a personal attack, it was more of an observation. I wasn't trying to belittle anyone, I'm not sure how my observations did that..
> 
> I thought you were speaking in general terms, sorry if it came across as insulting.


No problem, I was trying to speak in generalizations as well. It did strike a nerve and sensitive spot though, as before the A, we are talking years before (but I still think she had checked out at that point), some would probably characterize what I did as pleading, begging, and I admit it was negotiating ("come on baby it is my birthday" and "well if I help you with this spread sheet for your class, she's a teacher, what is my reward" sort of things). When I come on here and see people saying things like that person is cuckold, beta, KISA, etc it does insult and hurt as I am not that anymore, but looking back can see where I fit the pattern but was really just trying to be the good husband and father and please the family and wife like all male role models are supposed to be, think leave it to beaver and father knows best type of scenarios.

Also in my case, I am told, but will never be able to verify, the AP never got anything I never had gotten in the past, he just was given it more freely than I ever was. Seems to be more the norm for them and something akin to a treat or reward for me.


----------



## Regret214

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Would he agree with your assessment? I'm just curious because, as this thread denotes, people rarely see eye to eye even when we agree.


I think he would agree now. Two years ago probably not due to his trust being taken away by my actions. He and I have done so much work on each other and our marriage that we're back in sync now. And being out of sync was totally my fault. We delude ourselves during affairs that as Dig puts it, we're like George Costanza: It isn't a lie if you believe it. Sadly, that is how I was for 5 years.


----------



## russell28

Squeakr said:


> No problem, I was trying to speak in generalizations as well. It did strike a nerve and sensitive spot though, as before the A, we are talking years before (but I still think she had checked out at that point), some would probably characterize what I did as pleading, begging, and I admit it was negotiating ("come on baby it is my birthday" and "well if I help you with this spread sheet for your class, she's a teacher, what is my reward" sort of things). When I come on here and see people saying things like that person is cuckold, beta, KISA, etc it does insult and hurt as I am not that anymore, but looking back can see where I fit the pattern but was really just trying to be the good husband and father and please the family and wife like all male role models are supposed to be, think leave it to beaver and father knows best type of scenarios.


I totally understand... when you're not getting the whole story, you're so confused and fighting for your life, that you're grasping at straws trying to figure out what to do.. but how can you know what to do if you're not aware of the real situation? You're brain is trying to process things that don't make sense, and it's trying to find solutions based on half the facts, so I know exactly where you're coming from. You have to wait for the birthday or whatever to hopefully get some intimacy from your wife because you've been starved and craving it while she's going about her business as usual.. getting dolled up for her date with her boyfriend. Meanwhile you're scratching your head trying to figure out how to re-ignite your love life. You have no idea that you're in a competition and losing the game.. you don't even know you're playing a game. Pleading is just the way your mind is trying to get control of something that it has no control over, and also not enough information to really gain control over. It's so confusing and so demoralizing to be treated in such a cold fashion and not understand why. It's soul crushing, so I totally understand your pain and don't want you to think I'm belittling you in any way.


----------



## alexm

bandit.45 said:


> In my opinion D should be the norm. R should only occur when the WS is so mortified and remorseful that they would move heaven and earth, and yes... do whatever they have to do sexually to earn their BS back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Apologies, this is going back several pages...

Totally disagree about the sex part of this comment. Then the innocent partner is simply using the wayward and vice versa. Sex is now being used as a bargaining chip, for both parties, and sex in marriage shouldn't be about that, like ever. It's unlikely to create a healthy sexual attitude later on down the line, and resentment can build up. It's not honest, loving, caring sex. It has become a "see? I do value you!" kind of thing.

As for the rest of the reply, I don't think I could bring myself to R regardless of how much remorse my partner showed. To me, marriage is a zero tolerance thing when it comes to that.

Cheating on your partner is not tantamount to murdering somebody, but you certainly don't forgive a murderer if they show remorse and have "only" done it once. Ironically enough, the excuse for each are generally the same. "I was in a dark place" "It'll never happen again" "I just lost it". etc. We all know that cheating on your spouse is pretty much the worst thing one can do in a marriage.

I'm of the (seemingly) small % of folks here who wouldn't R after that, under any circumstances.


----------



## davecarter

russell28 said:


> When I read stuff like this, I think "no wonder this guy never got anal sex.. if he's using begging, pleading and bargaining as foreplay".... The AP isn't begging for it.. The AP just goes for it, and she's like 'ooooh'! So yea, don't beg for x or y... slowly build up to it. I know this isn't the sex forum, but it had to be said.


Correct.

I doubt, in the first throes of the affair, the perps don't go for it all in one go...it's a gradual pushing of boundaries and limits from one party.
And if the OM/OW (usually OM) doesn't get it at first....he keeps pushing until he does...hence, *'Things WS did with AP'.*


----------



## aug

badkarma2013 said:


> Many of you here know my story...my WW cheated with her Boss...After D-DAY he showed me pics of her doing things with him she had said for *22 years for our Marriage* was (her words) SICK and Disgusting..but she did them with him....If you had met my WW before you would stand in disbelief as I and others were.did





badkarma2013 said:


> Hey Man...She had One son...I DID NOT ADOPT.



I still dont understand this. You were married for 22 years with her. Yet she had a son which you did not adopt.

Was she a single mother when you met her? How old was her son then? Why was she a single mother? Was parenting her son during marriage awkward?


----------



## bandit.45

Regret214 said:


> I think he would agree now. Two years ago probably not due to his trust being taken away by my actions. He and I have done so much work on each other and our marriage that we're back in sync now. And being out of sync was totally my fault. We delude ourselves during affairs that as Dig puts it, we're like George Costanza: It isn't a lie if you believe it. Sadly, that is how I was for 5 years.


Dig is a cool guy. I like him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## arbitrator

davecarter said:


> Correct.
> 
> I doubt, in the first throes of the affair, the perps don't go for it all in one go...it's a gradual pushing of boundaries and limits from one party.
> And if the OM/OW (usually OM) doesn't get it at first....he keeps pushing until he does...hence, *'Things WS did with AP'.*


*Please don't think for one minute that the WS doesn't push for the cheating to start through overt flirting, sexual overtures, and pushing of the marital boundaries of their own accord. This is chiefly done to fill the void(no pun intended) when she has resolutely lost respect for and has summarily distanced herself from her BH; and she's now gotten her internal dopamine fix, enabling herself both psychologically, and physiologically, for some brand new and strange romantic action away from the homefront! More especially since her BH is no longer meeting her emotional needs and she's largely trolling around looking for some available man who can, regardless of whether they are an Adonis or not!

And that's just something that she'll likely never ever seek again from her legitimate spouse regardless of his wealth, stature, or good looks!*


----------



## badkarma2013

aug said:


> I still dont understand this. You were married for 22 years with her. Yet she had a son which you did not adopt.
> 
> Was she a single mother when you met her? How old was her son then? Why was she a single mother? Was parenting her son during marriage awkward?


Hey AUG....she had child very young out of wedlock...childs Dad came into picture after we met ...started paying support and did not want me to adopt...child ..man now..was 2 1/2 when we met....

No i loved him as my own....as a side note...even though i HAVE encouraged him to do so...he will not communicate with his mom except by text after D.


----------



## bandit.45

badkarma2013 said:


> Hey AUG....she had child very young out of wedlock...childs Dad came into picture after we met ...started paying support and did not want me to adopt...child ..man now..was 2 1/2 when we met....
> 
> No i loved him as my own....as a side note...even though i HAVE encouraged him to do so...he will not communicate with his mom except by text after D.


Make sure you maintain a close relationship. Even though he is grown , he still needs you in his life regardless of what his mom did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badkarma2013

sidney2718 said:


> I understand that. But you miss the point. You even said it in the quote above. "...she got off on her boss desiring her." That's an emotional need.
> 
> And though I agree that badkarma was her safe landing pad, women's needs are often not the same as men's needs.


Good question sydney2718...yes...i thought we connected on all levels...we had dates...i encouraged her to finish her school and find work..(.Thats where she met OM)..

WE did not need money...but it was something she wanted to do...

Sydney...every thread here about a WW...was about her LIKING the compliments,praises ...etc that the OM gave them..ALOT OF WW here said their marriage was HAPPY when the A started and after their are caught..CANNOT give a good reason why they did it.

Whatever the reason ...there is NON EXCUSE for an AFFAIR...

I could have said my sexual needs were being met and im going to bang my assistant ....Thats no excuse...

Im not agreeing with this..BUT if NONE of her emotional needs were being met ...There are NO EXCUSES for what she did to 2 families...NONE and thats for any WS.


----------



## bandit.45

We are always saying that affairs and cheating are based on fantasy. Therefore, does it follow that the emotions are fantasy also? Not "real" but " fake emotions"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badkarma2013

bandit.45 said:


> Make sure you maintain a close relationship. Even though he is grown , he still needs you in his life regardless of what his mom did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes i do...much closer after D...he knows what his mom did..( i did not disclose any details)..but with the loss of both of their jobs and her moving...hes no fool..

BUT word did travel and i showed the pics to both parents..


----------



## bandit.45

badkarma2013 said:


> Yes i do...much closer after D...he knows what his mom did..( i did not disclose any details)..but with the loss of both of their jobs and her moving...hes no fool..
> 
> BUT word did travel and i showed the pics to both parents..


Brutal. I wonder how she liked the emotions your exposure brought? Horror , fear , embarrassment, confusion.... That's what I call emotional feeding. It just wasn't the menu she wanted to dine from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badkarma2013

russell28 said:


> I totally understand... when you're not getting the whole story, you're so confused and fighting for your life, that you're grasping at straws trying to figure out what to do.. but how can you know what to do if you're not aware of the real situation? You're brain is trying to process things that don't make sense, and it's trying to find solutions based on half the facts, so I know exactly where you're coming from. You have to wait for the birthday or whatever to hopefully get some intimacy from your wife because you've been starved and craving it while she's going about her business as usual.. getting dolled up for her date with her boyfriend. Meanwhile you're scratching your head trying to figure out how to re-ignite your love life. You have no idea that you're in a competition and losing the game.. you don't even know you're playing a game. Pleading is just the way your mind is trying to get control of something that it has no control over, and also not enough information to really gain control over. It's so confusing and so demoralizing to be treated in such a cold fashion and not understand why. It's soul crushing, so I totally understand your pain and don't want you to think I'm belittling you in any way.



Russell28...could not agree more...I KNEW something was off months before D-DAY...DOZENS and DOZENS of red flags...
but i had them same GODD%*N thought process that many BHs have..."Your wife might Have an A, BUT MINE NEVER WOULD....

How Naive ..

I was was losing a WAR I did not know I was fighting...

It was ..as you stated a SOUL CRUSHING experiance..

These days ..after dating a few times ..If ANY crap starts coming down the pike..ITs GOODBYE MOTHERF*&KER


This has made me hard and cynical..i was not before...

and im afraid this sh*t will be with me all of my days.













I was losing a WAR i did not even know i was fighting..


----------



## badkarma2013

bandit.45 said:


> Brutal. I wonder how she liked the emotions your exposure brought? Horror , fear , embarrassment, confusion.... That's what I call emotional feeding. It just wasn't the menu she wanted to dine from.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



When she knew i had the pics and had showed them to family...TOTAL AND UTTER DESTRUCTION......
Complete Collapse ....

She and the OM had brought the War to me ..

I will quote a CAPT. during the Vietnam War..." I had to BURN DOWN the village to save it...Pretty much my sentiments at that point..


----------



## bandit.45

badkarma2013 said:


> When she knew i had the pics and had showed them to family...TOTAL AND UTTER DESTRUCTION......
> Complete Collapse ....
> 
> She and the OM had brought the War to me ..
> 
> I will quote a CAPT. during the Vietnam War..." I had to BURN DOWN the village to save it...Pretty much my sentiments at that point..


You didn't just burn it. You nuked it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

By the way y'all....I don't hate women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper

bandit.45 said:


> By the way y'all....I don't hate women.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Didn't believe it for a minute. When you know what "shaming tactics" are, you can't help but laugh when you see someone try to employ them.


----------



## badkarma2013

By the way, does it bother anyone that there are almost no women posting in this section of the thread? That should provide a clue...BY sydney 2718


No it dosent...they see far to much of theselves HERE..

and most of us HATE the TRUTH when its directed at us personally.


----------



## bandit.45

I think some female posters get uncomfortable with a bunch of men talking harshly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## russell28

bandit.45 said:


> We are always saying that affairs and cheating are based on fantasy. Therefore, does it follow that the emotions are fantasy also? Not "real" but " fake emotions"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Emotions are emotions, but are they based in fact or fantasy. For example.. I might find a woman in a movie so attractive, during the movie I will have feelings for her. Those feelings are fantasy because they are based on something that's fake, made-up, like an affair. A Bullcrap script of lies they tell each other. A world with no bills or children, no responsibilities, just a few hours a day, some sweet texts and a roll in the hay. Just like in a romance novel.

Emotions that are based in reality, are ones where you love and cherish someone that's been an important part of your life, that you know truths about, you share bills and children and responsibilities. It's not a movie or a book. It is your happy ending if you make it so.. it's all in your head.

So you can get the chemical reaction off of reality, or off of self induced bull crap.. the *choice *is yours.

You might want a reality with that fantasy partner, but if you do.. take it out of the shadows, and bring it into the light. Make it real, don't hide it and be ashamed of it. Show it off, tell the world about your OM/W.. how much you love them. Why sneak? Shout it from the rooftops.. you're so in love.


----------



## Ripper

This dose of "redpill" philosophy has been provided by: Reality.


----------



## bandit.45

All I'm saying I guess is that the motivation to cheat is split between feeding the ego and fulfilling lust. Lust is a motivator that people rarely acknowledge when it comes to affairs. I think LMJ's ex's affair had little to do with emotional feeding, and more to do with her ego and pure lust for another man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Regret214

bandit.45 said:


> Dig is a cool guy. I like him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



He told me to be nicer to you because you were okay. Basically, stop taking everything personal. That can be difficult here at times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badkarma2013

Regret214 said:


> He told me to be nicer to you because you were okay. Basically, stop taking everything personal. That can be difficult here at times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




REgret214.....I would consider it a favor to hear your story...NOT to judge..by any means..im always curious to hear a womens view..especially on the subject of infidelity.. 

I never got closure from my EXWW...as to the WHY..

And you best believe me, mine was nightmarish from D-DAY to D.


I have a measure of respect for you here.


----------



## Regret214

badkarma2013 said:


> REgret214.....I would consider it a favor to hear your story...NOT to judge..by any means..im always curious to hear a womens view..especially on the subject of infidelity..
> 
> I never got closure from my EXWW...as to the WHY..
> 
> And you best believe me, mine was nightmarish from D-DAY to D.
> 
> 
> I have a measure of respect for you here.


I'm just getting home and tonight is Dig's night off. Click on my name and look for my threads as well as SomedayDig. Our story is in those threads as well as the first hundred or so pages of the Reconciliation thread by B1. I will link them later if you need or answer whatever I can here or in any of your threads.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badkarma2013

Regret214 said:


> I'm just getting home and tonight is Dig's night off. Click on my name and look for my threads as well as SomedayDig. Our story is in those threads as well as the first hundred or so pages of the Reconciliation thread by B1. I will link them later if you need or answer whatever I can here or in any of your threads.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Thank you for your kindness in responding..


----------



## pidge70

Regret214 said:


> I'm just getting home and tonight is Dig's night off. Click on my name and look for my threads as well as SomedayDig. Our story is in those threads as well as the first hundred or so pages of the Reconciliation thread by B1. I will link them later if you need or answer whatever I can here or in any of your threads.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Slight threadjack; Could you tell Dig that pidge and Joe said hi?


----------



## badkarma2013

Regret214 said:


> I'm just getting home and tonight is Dig's night off. Click on my name and look for my threads as well as SomedayDig. Our story is in those threads as well as the first hundred or so pages of the Reconciliation thread by B1. I will link them later if you need or answer whatever I can here or in any of your threads.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Just finished your destruction 1-2-3 threads .....my god 

Five years is a lot of lies and deceit...how did Dig come to grips with it and WHY? That is SO MUCH to overcome..


----------



## Machiavelli

GusPolinski said:


> Ha, yeah. And the blue eyes, straight hair, relatively caucasian skin tone...


Definitely Ashkenazi with a very high euro genetic load.


----------



## jb02157

GusPolinski said:


> And *then* I'd have beaten the unholy blue f*ck out of him.


That's GREAT!


----------



## Regret214

badkarma2013 said:


> Just finished your destruction 1-2-3 threads .....my god
> 
> Five years is a lot of lies and deceit...how did Dig come to grips with it and WHY? That is SO MUCH to overcome..


It was horrible and shame I live with often when I look in the mirror. As for Dig look up his "The Story of Dig". He wrote so well in that with such openness, it humbled me to the core. I can apologize every day for the rest of my life and it will never be enough. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regret214

pidge70 said:


> Slight threadjack; Could you tell Dig that pidge and Joe said hi?


I did and he said hello. I really wish he could post right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

badkarma2013 said:


> Just finished your destruction 1-2-3 threads .....my god
> 
> Five years is a lot of lies and deceit...how did Dig come to grips with it and WHY? That is SO MUCH to overcome..


From what I gathered, it was how dig is wired. He is a very take charge guy. He was really mad but not destroyed. He chose to take back his marriage very proactively.

He strikes me as a powerful character. Not that men who D are weak.

Dig did what he wanted and pulled his marriage and fww out of the mud.

He is one of the guys I admire on this sight. Not for his choice to R but because of how he did it and his character.


----------



## sidney2718

GusPolinski said:


> LOL. Aside from giving his wife his explicit approval to f*ck her boss, how could he have actually met this specific need?


Now now. We have badkarma's view of what his wife's needs were, not her view. I'm not doubting him, but I daresay her view would be different.



xakulax said:


> This is true badkarma2013 needed a wife who was compassionate, loving,caring, attentive and loyal where his wife want to be treated like cheap french [email protected] her needs where meet what about his sidney2718


We all need such a wife. But that's not badkarma's problem. His problem is that he and his wife were on different pages of the same book of marriage, or, quite likely, reading different books. That happens.

I still maintain (and there is lots of evidence here on TAM for it) that most wandering spouses had reasons for wandering other than wanting to be a cheap French [email protected] And by the way, are the cheap French ones better than the others?


----------



## sidney2718

Squeakr said:


> I think a good question was pondered here regarding women responding in this thread. As a BH I know that I feel betrayed when I find that the WW did things she wouldn't do with me no matter how much asking, pleading, or begging/ bargaining occurred. For the women that were betrayed do they feel the same way, or do they possibly feel relieved that they weren't subjected to some of the acts that may be considered vile or filthy that were done with the AP or is it a mixture of the two??? It just seems that we have this image (and are told such) that of we loved our wives we wouldn't subject them to such actions as it can be considered disrespectful, vile, and degrading?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that actions that might be considered disrespectful, vile, and degrading varies not only from person to person, but from time to time.

As some of you may recall, good ol' Sidney is ancient. When he was a kid, sex was the subject of much legal regulation. Most anything other than the so-called "missionary position" was considered obscene and subject to criminal penalties. Back then a loving married couple who enjoyed having the woman on top might have been arrested for their trouble.

Of course, very few arrests were actually made, but that's not the point. The laws reflected the feelings of the population at large at that time.

Today, bending your wife over the arm of a sofa is often considered fun and not bestiality.

My point? Men and women are more different than we can easily imagine. And among men there are many differences. Same for women. So it is VERY easy to miss contact and get things wrong, especially while "courting", if I may use an ancient word.

I can assure you from my own experience that some good, decent women enjoy rough s*x at times. And others despise it. And still others won't even discuss s*x with their husbands. The three secrets to a good marriage that is often overlooked are communication, communication, and communication. And sometimes that may not be enough.

It is not necessary to think that a cheating woman is devilspawn, a martian, or crazy.


----------



## Regret214

ConanHub said:


> From what I gathered, it was how dig is wired. He is a very take charge guy. He was really mad but not destroyed. He chose to take back his marriage very proactively.
> 
> He strikes me as a powerful character. Not that men who D are weak.
> 
> Dig did what he wanted and pulled his marriage and fww out of the mud.
> 
> He is one of the guys I admire on this sight. Not for his choice to R but because of how he did it and his character.



All I can say, is yes. To all of this. I'm so sorry I hurt him. I don't deserve this second chance, but I promised him that I would never let him down again. He is the strongest man I've ever met. And I'm not being biased either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## davecarter

bandit.45 said:


> You didn't just burn it. You nuked it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did the same thing to my wife (and marriage).
Albeit, _after _being a pathetic, doormat-cuckold for 5 months.

Eventually I decided to _"take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It was the only way to be sure"_


----------



## sidney2718

Squeakr said:


> No problem, I was trying to speak in generalizations as well. It did strike a nerve and sensitive spot though, as before the A, we are talking years before (but I still think she had checked out at that point), some would probably characterize what I did as pleading, begging, and I admit it was negotiating ("come on baby it is my birthday" and "well if I help you with this spread sheet for your class, she's a teacher, what is my reward" sort of things). When I come on here and see people saying things like that person is cuckold, beta, KISA, etc it does insult and hurt as I am not that anymore, but looking back can see where I fit the pattern but was really just trying to be the good husband and father and please the family and wife like all male role models are supposed to be, think leave it to beaver and father knows best type of scenarios.
> 
> Also in my case, I am told, but will never be able to verify, the AP never got anything I never had gotten in the past, he just was given it more freely than I ever was. Seems to be more the norm for them and something akin to a treat or reward for me.


My experience and what I've observed among family members and close friends over the years is that each couple establishes a dynamic of some sort. When that dynamic changes, one of the partners sometimes suspects infidelity. It tingles the "spidey senses".

The dynamic shifts a bit over time. Sex may become less frequent, more time may be spent apart, whatever.

A cheating spouse also establishes a dynamic with their AP. It is often a very different dynamic and can at times be seen by the WS as a "better" dynamics. Often it is a worse dynamic and the affair ends.

This has been going on for thousands of years and nobody has come up with a simple cause and effect answer yet. We is all differunt.


----------



## ConanHub

Regret214 said:


> All I can say, is yes. To all of this. I'm so sorry I hurt him. I don't deserve this second chance, but I promised him that I would never let him down again. He is the strongest man I've ever met. And I'm not being biased either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dig got banned soon after I joined TAM. Would have liked to interact with him. He would certainly have some insight that could be helpful to OP. Hope you two are having a good time.


----------



## sidney2718

badkarma2013 said:


> Good question sydney2718...yes...i thought we connected on all levels...we had dates...i encouraged her to finish her school and find work..(.Thats where she met OM)..
> 
> WE did not need money...but it was something she wanted to do...
> 
> Sydney...every thread here about a WW...was about her LIKING the compliments,praises ...etc that the OM gave them..ALOT OF WW here said their marriage was HAPPY when the A started and after their are caught..CANNOT give a good reason why they did it.
> 
> Whatever the reason ...there is NON EXCUSE for an AFFAIR...
> 
> I could have said my sexual needs were being met and im going to bang my assistant ....Thats no excuse...
> 
> Im not agreeing with this..BUT if NONE of her emotional needs were being met ...There are NO EXCUSES for what she did to 2 families...NONE and thats for any WS.


I fully understand and agree. I was not excusing the affair, any affair. It is fully on the wandering spouse. But I do insist that affairs *rarely* occur in a vacuum. Some of the time even the WS can't explain it.


----------



## pidge70

Regret214 said:


> I did and he said hello. I really wish he could post right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lots of us do. He is sorely missed.


----------



## bandit.45

Let's not forget that BSs who choose to divorce their waywards are strong too. I think it's how you go about divorcing them that shows your character.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sidney2718

badkarma2013 said:


> When she knew i had the pics and had showed them to family...TOTAL AND UTTER DESTRUCTION......
> Complete Collapse ....
> 
> She and the OM had brought the War to me ..
> 
> I will quote a CAPT. during the Vietnam War..." I had to BURN DOWN the village to save it...Pretty much my sentiments at that point..


Did your now exW ever even try to explain what happened?


----------



## GusPolinski

sidney2718 said:


> Did your now exW ever even try to explain what happened?


So... hard... to... avoid... joke...


----------



## sidney2718

badkarma2013 said:


> By the way, does it bother anyone that there are almost no women posting in this section of the thread? That should provide a clue...BY sydney 2718
> 
> 
> No it dosent...they see far to much of theselves HERE..
> 
> and most of us HATE the TRUTH when its directed at us personally.


I rather suspect that they feel that the group here is a bunch of disgruntled male misogynists who aren't interested in what women think.


----------



## bandit.45

sidney2718 said:


> I rather suspect that they feel that the group here is a bunch of disgruntled male misogynists who aren't interested in what women think.


Hey quit talking about me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## soccermom2three

badkarma2013 said:


> By the way, does it bother anyone that there are almost no women posting in this section of the thread? That should provide a clue...BY sydney 2718
> 
> 
> No it dosent...they see far to much of theselves HERE..
> 
> and most of us HATE the TRUTH when its directed at us personally.


What clue are you seeing? What truth are you talking about? What is it that you need the women here to post about?


----------



## bandit.45

Uh oh. You stepped in it now BK.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## arbitrator

soccermom2three said:


> What clue are you seeing? What truth are you talking about? What is it that you need the women here to post about?


*In a word, simply "concurrence!"*


----------



## russell28

ConanHub said:


> From what I gathered, it was how dig is wired. He is a very take charge guy. He was really mad but not destroyed. He chose to take back his marriage very proactively.
> 
> He strikes me as a powerful character. Not that men who D are weak.
> 
> Dig did what he wanted and pulled his marriage and fww out of the mud.
> 
> He is one of the guys I admire on this sight. Not for his choice to R but because of how he did it and his character.


I came to this site a mess, lost and confused.. my life was torn apart, and Dig helped me so much those first few days.. and then a month later when the TT hit, he was there for me again.. it was on Fathers day, a holiday.. and he took the time to help me out and I'll forever be grateful to him for that. Any time I needed the guy, he was there helping a total stranger.


----------



## Regret214

That's Dig Russell. It's just how he is. It's those same qualities that are dominant in him preparing for police academy. He's always trying to help people in trouble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## soccermom2three

arbitrator said:


> *In a word, simply "concurrence!"*


Oh, that's all! Then I concur! I do think there is a tendency for a women in an affair to shed her good girl image for the OM.

I'm neither a BS or a WS so I didn't feel like I had anything to add to this thread. Also, the thread's subject seems to be about WW not WH. I guess you never really see a BW wife posting about the sex acts her husband did with the OW and how he never would do those things with her. I think BW's wives are more hurt by other things, like if her husband called the OW pet names and he never had pet names for the BS OR he bought gifts or spent money on the OW that he would never spend on his wife.


----------



## badkarma2013

soccermom2three said:


> Oh, that's all! Then I concur! I do think there is a tendency for a women in an affair to shed her good girl image for the OM.
> 
> I'm neither a BS or a WS so I didn't feel like I had anything to add to this thread. Also, the thread's subject seems to be about WW not WH. I guess you never really see a BW wife posting about the sex acts her husband did with the OW and how he never would do those things with her. I think BW's wives are more hurt by other things, like if her husband called the OW pet names and he never had pet names for the BS OR he bought gifts or spent money on the OW that he would never spend on his wife.


Thank You Soccermom....Thats why I posted the thread to begin with...I again believe its truly a GeNDER thing...

Men can never forget that his wife let another man inside of her.. and did things with the OM that was ALWAYS denied to the BH...im sorry to be so blunt...It forever plays in our head.


I agree women want to know if the WH loved them and had a strong emotional connection with the OW...:iagree:


----------



## ThePheonix

Here's the way it is guys. The gal, like most, was always attracted to the sexy rebellious bad boy. But having more than her share of being slammed dunked by the very men she feels are so exciting, she decide she could do better with the nice beta type guy. She wants commitment, marriage, children, a home, security and constantly rewarded by her man for all she offers. Who better provides that than Betaman. But when she has all that , she discovers she is still not happy. What's worse she becomes bored. She discovers that living with a guy who constantly gives is no fun. Its like going to Vegas and always winning every game. 
She begins to lose interest in sex. After a while she will often do anything to avoid physical contact with Betaman. Sex is a job and not a very rewarding one. She will oftentimes react by not wanting to be touched, feeling ill, nauseous, the proverbial headaches, stiffening up, etc. She may tolerate "duty sex" to preserve the peace but anything beyond a quick missionary encounter is insufferable. Hence, certain acts are "sick and disgusting". 
She begins to think about the exciting bad boys she use to know and gets that tingly sensation. It makes her feel the way she use to feel before she took the easy road of the beta guy. 
So guys, its not that she finds certain sexual acts sick and disgusting. She just finds them sick and disgusting with you.


----------



## badkarma2013

soccermom2three said:


> What clue are you seeing? What truth are you talking about? What is it that you need the women here to post about?


that was posted by sydney2718


----------



## badkarma2013

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the way it is guys. The gal, like most, was always attracted to the sexy rebellious bad boy. But having more than her share of being slammed dunked by the very men she feels are so exciting, she decide she could do better with the nice beta type guy. She wants commitment, marriage, children, a home, security and constantly rewarded by her man for all she offers. Who better provides that than Betaman. But when she has all that , she discovers she is still not happy. What's worse she becomes bored. She discovers that living with a guy who constantly gives is no fun. Its like going to Vegas and always winning every game.
> She begins to lose interest in sex. After a while she will often do anything to avoid physical contact with Betaman. Sex is a job and not a very rewarding one. She will oftentimes react by not wanting to be touched, feeling ill, nauseous, the proverbial headaches, stiffening up, etc. She may tolerate "duty sex" to preserve the peace but anything beyond a quick missionary encounter is insufferable. Hence, certain acts are "sick and disgusting".
> She begins to think about the exciting bad boys she use to know and gets that tingly sensation. It makes her feel the way she use to feel before she took the easy road of the beta guy.
> So guys, its not that she finds certain sexual acts sick and disgusting. She just finds them sick and disgusting with you.




I don like what you are saying...but i can find nothing to say you are wrong..

The pheonix...if this is the case and there must be alot of them in marriage...WHAT IS ONE TO DO...your description could happen to anyone of us (MEN) who are/were married..

You had obviously looked at and stuided this...WHY WOULD A MAN MARRY?? because every man is subject to have this happen to him...

Answers..pls


----------



## Regret214

Good God.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manticore

ThePheonix said:


> So guys, its not that she finds certain sexual acts sick and disgusting. She just finds them sick and disgusting with you.


Is your theory against what I am, not against you (I am telling you this because even I see how I always seem to respond against what you write, but is this specific topic)

If this were true then I have not had those girls/women doing those acts that they called disgusting that I proposed back then, Is about pushig boundaries and manipulation, as easy as that. Back then most of them said no then I pushed, if they said no again then I threatened with ending the relationship (once that I saw that they were emotionally attached to me) of course this process took some time since the first proposal to the culmination, it was not as if I just metioned it 2 times and "boom magic".

what I can concede is that probably beta guys are not going to push for those acts (even if they also have to possibility to achieve them) because they don't want to risk of losing or harming their relationship.

other thing that proves your theory wrong, is that if these OM are bad boys alphas that get what they want from women sexually speaking, why is that many of them never shared or pushed their own wives to have those acts with them? (as I said before there are many OMW that learned from BH's their kinky husbands pahtasies or acts as Sado, 3some with hookers, toys, strapon).


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the way it is guys. The gal, like most, was always attracted to the sexy rebellious bad boy. But having more than her share of being slammed dunked by the very men she feels are so exciting, she decide she could do better with the nice beta type guy. She wants commitment, marriage, children, a home, security and constantly rewarded by her man for all she offers. Who better provides that than Betaman. But when she has all that , she discovers she is still not happy. What's worse she becomes bored. She discovers that living with a guy who constantly gives is no fun. Its like going to Vegas and always winning every game.
> She begins to lose interest in sex. After a while she will often do anything to avoid physical contact with Betaman. Sex is a job and not a very rewarding one. She will oftentimes react by not wanting to be touched, feeling ill, nauseous, the proverbial headaches, stiffening up, etc. She may tolerate "duty sex" to preserve the peace but anything beyond a quick missionary encounter is insufferable. Hence, certain acts are "sick and disgusting".
> She begins to think about the exciting bad boys she use to know and gets that tingly sensation. It makes her feel the way she use to feel before she took the easy road of the beta guy.
> So guys, its not that she finds certain sexual acts sick and disgusting. She just finds them sick and disgusting with you.


I don't think your scenario above explains every case where a WS has erotic sex with an AP while the BS received boring duty sex. The most plausible explanation for the majority of cases is this: Familiarity breeds contempt. That's human nature where the longer you know someone, the more "real" that person becomes - hence you know ALL the flaws of your spouse. A new person, OTOH, is - wait for it - NEW. It's exciting, it's that opportunity to go on a magical journey of discovery with a new lover. I think in most cases, that's what it's all about - newness coupled with the freedom from not being tethered to real life issues shared with a spouse.

I'm sure that there are a number of people where bad boy loving women marry stable nice men and then ultimately cheat with a bad boy. I don't think it explains the majority of cases, though. IMHO, the majority of marriages start off on a more equal footing as opposed to your scenario where one person stoops down to the level of beta male (or female).


----------



## Machiavelli

It's generally recognized that while most men are attracted to most women, most women are not attracted to most men. That means there will be a certain number of women who, if they desire to marry, will have to settle down with men for whom they aren't viscerally hot and juicy. If the Pareto Principle, or worse, is in effect, that's a huge disparity.


----------



## ThePheonix

manticore said:


> Back then most of them said no then I pushed, if they said no again then I threatened with ending the relationship (once that I saw that they were emotionally attached to me) of course this process took some time since the first proposal to the culmination, it was not as if I just metioned it 2 times and "boom magic".


You just verified what I'm saying Dawg. In the example I used, the gal doesn't care and is not going to do what the husband wants no matter if he threatens the relationship. Most likely she would welcome him saying adios. At this point she's in it only for the security and to get her ducks in a row. Her romantic interest is dead. 




Plan 9 from OS said:


> I don't think your scenario above explains every case where a WS has erotic sex with an AP while the BS received boring duty sex. The most plausible explanation for the majority of cases is this: Familiarity breeds contempt. That's human nature where the longer you know someone, the more "real" that person becomes - hence you know ALL the flaws of your spouse. A new person, OTOH, is - wait for it - NEW. It's exciting, it's that opportunity to go on a magical journey of discovery with a new lover. I think in most cases, that's what it's all about - newness coupled with the freedom from not being tethered to real life issues shared with a spouse.


Nothing can explain each and every case. Its not the flaws of the spouse. You can probably find more flaws among husbands who wives don't cheat than you can among men married to cheaters. Neither do I think familiarity, per se, is the culprit. Wives who don't cheat are familiar with their husbands.
I'll submit this. Certain guys go along to get along. They do not stand up for themselves and constantly reward their wives no matter how she treats them. They a weak and needy my man and she sees them as weak and needy. The wife is not challenged to keep her end of the marriage in tact. She always wins, and is rewarded for simply showing up. The "Beta" guy gladly accepts full responsibility for keeping her contented and becomes the whipping boy if she ever gets her drawers in a wad. They accept without consequence, whatever crumbs she throws them. Respect goes and boredom sets in. A woman's sexual attraction to her mate is directly proportional to her respect for him.
Like I said in my above post, a guy that always doles out rewards no matter what is like her going to Vegas and winning every hand she plays. Maybe fun at first, but how long before she'd want to change her situation to one presenting a little more challenge.


----------



## davecarter

manticore said:


> Is your theory against what I am, not against you (I am telling you this because even I see how I always seem to respond against what you write, but is this specific topic)
> 
> 1 - If this were true then I have not had those girls/women doing those acts that they called disgusting that I proposed back then, Is about pushing boundaries and manipulation, as easy as that. Back then most of them said no then I pushed, if they said no again then I threatened with ending the relationship (once that I saw that they were emotionally attached to me) of course this process took some time since the first proposal to the culmination, it was not as if I just metioned it 2 times and "boom magic".
> 
> 2 - what I can concede is that probably beta guys are not going to push for those acts (even if they also have to possibility to achieve them) because they don't want to risk of losing or harming their relationship.
> 
> 3 - other thing that proves your theory wrong, is that if these OM are bad boys alphas that get what they want from women sexually speaking, why is that many of them never shared or pushed their own wives to have those acts with them? (as I said before there are many OMW that learned from BH's their kinky husbands pahtasies or acts as Sado, 3some with hookers, toys, strapon).


Very good points. And all are spot-on, IMO.

1 - We can scour this forum and find many instances (_some more 'infamous' than others, if you know what I mean_) and apply this logic directly.

2 - Ditto, above.

3 - My theory on this one? OMs who don't do this stuff with their own wives - they got their own 'Madonna-Wh0re Complex' going on with them too.
Let's imagine, the worst-morals, serial-cheating-Player OM going, married, maybe his wife is either too frigid, boring, kooky, whatever to do all this stuff - and therefore he too, has the inability to maintain sexual arousal within his own committed relationship. so he takes out his frustrations on other men's wives?
Would explain a lot about serial-cheating OMs and why they target married women for sex and gradually push them to do BDSM / anal / threesomes / whatever.


_Note: I only apply this to married OMs. _


----------



## arbitrator

*If men can be classified as either alpha or beta, I certainly think that it is a plausible theory that women can, as well. 

If a woman is summarily not getting her emotional needs met by her spouse, then in order to get those needs met, she can come-on to some other desirable alpha, or even a beta male, either through her own flirtaceous overtures or sexual entendre/innuendo to get what it is that she wants.

She knows going in that if she offers sex to him, that it should be richly reciprocated with him attempting to meet those emotional needs of hers; a quid pro quo, so to speak.

Logically speaking, the kinkier and more outlandish the sexual repertoire that she engages in with him, she theorizes that it, in essence, will greatly enhance her ability to receive even more emotional support from him.

Since the WS has effectively detached both emotionally and sexually from her marital partner, and seldom did nothing more with them other than the obligatory vanilla sex of missionary, and that the WS's heart wasn't really into doing in the first place; with their affair partner, it is all so very new ~ as hope now springs eternal ~ and makes her more than willing to inject herself into the more kinkier elements of sex, such as bondage, S&M, anal, group, et. al. that her marital partner probably never found to be remotely palatable in the first place!

Bottom line ~ women can be alpha just as much as men. And if paired with a beta H who is not adequately serving her emotional needs at home, she will biologically seek out an alpha, or in the absence of locating a desirable one, may even roll the dice on another beta male who might just acquiese to her unmet emotional needs!*


----------



## love=pain

Guess I will add my thoughts

First men doing things with the AP they don't do with their SO might be more of them fulfilling some fantasy or feeding that sexual appetite that isn't getting fulfilled at home, maybe they have too much respect(never the right word when talking about a cheater but for the lack of a better word) or feel asking their SO for something off the normal sexual menu is undignified.

For a woman with their AP yeah there may be some of the same thing (fulfilling a fantasy) but sex is mostly a male dominated act and I think many times the woman doesn't want to disappoint their new friend by saying no. While the sex act they are preforming may not be their cup of tea they don't want the AP to go away.

Similar to a lonely child who finds a "bad" friend, that friend may bully them a little, push their boundaries to get them to do things out of character i.e. stealing, destroying property etc. but that lonely child will keep coming back to that "bad" friend going along with whatever because they fill some hole(no matter how twisted) in that child.


Then again cheating seems very out of character for most people whose stories are on this board (the BS are usually shocked to find out) why be that surprised when the out of character behavior spills into the bedroom.

Just a thought.


----------



## badkarma2013

love=pain said:


> Guess I will add my thoughts
> 
> First men doing things with the AP they don't do with their SO might be more of them fulfilling some fantasy or feeding that sexual appetite that isn't getting fulfilled at home, maybe they have too much respect(never the right word when talking about a cheater but for the lack of a better word) or feel asking their SO for something off the normal sexual menu is undignified.
> 
> For a woman with their AP yeah there may be some of the same thing (fulfilling a fantasy) but sex is mostly a male dominated act and I think many times the woman doesn't want to disappoint their new friend by saying no. While the sex act they are preforming may not be their cup of tea they don't want the AP to go away.
> 
> Similar to a lonely child who finds a "bad" friend, that friend may bully them a little, push their boundaries to get them to do things out of character i.e. stealing, destroying property etc. but that lonely child will keep coming back to that "bad" friend going along with whatever because they fill some hole(no matter how twisted) in that child.
> 
> 
> Then again cheating seems very out of character for most people whose stories are on this board (the BS are usually shocked to find out) why be that surprised when the out of character behavior spills into the bedroom.
> 
> Just a thought.




I could not agree more...Thanks


----------



## Marduk

Machiavelli said:


> It's generally recognized that while most men are attracted to most women, most women are not attracted to most men. That means there will be a certain number of women who, if they desire to marry, will have to settle down with men for whom they aren't viscerally hot and juicy. If the Pareto Principle, or worse, is in effect, that's a huge disparity.


I would agree, and add to it by saying that this seems to flip in mid 30s to mid 40s.

At that point, I've discovered that most women are attracted to most men in their same age group, and most men aren't.


----------



## convert

Regret214 said:


> That's Dig Russell. It's just how he is. It's those same qualities that are dominant in him preparing for police academy. He's always trying to help people in trouble.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Regret, may I ask why Dig got banned? did he get perma banned?


----------



## arbitrator

marduk said:


> I would agree, and add to it by saying that this seems to flip in *mid 30s to mid 40s.*
> 
> At that point, I've discovered that most women are attracted to most men in their same age group, and most men aren't.


*Actually, marduk, I really think that you could justify extending that high-end age group upward from the mid-40's on through the 50's!*


----------



## GusPolinski

Generally speaking, I'd think that the majority of husbands would be willing to do pretty much whatever their wives asked of them in the bedroom. The line for most is probably drawn at things like MMF threesomes (or, honestly, any sex involving another male), swinging, any BDSM that goes beyond a light spanking, or anything involving "waste" material. So, for most BWs, I'd think that this wouldn't really be a concern.

As far as wives go (and, again, I'm speaking very generally), I'd think that this, more often than not, wouldn't be the case, as it seems that -- in most monogamous hetero relationships -- it's the female that is driving what will and won't go down in the bedroom. So, _for BHs, this is *almost always* a very real and valid concern_.

Ladies (or fellas), if I'm wrong, feel free to put me in my place.


----------



## Regret214

convert said:


> Regret, may I ask why Dig got banned? did he get perma banned?


Dig has a group of friends that used to be in Social. When he initially got permabanned, they set up a website where they could still chat about stuff. When a large contingent of users here got mods to reverse the permaban due to it being a misunderstanding by ChrisH, they closed down the other site. Well, because some people simply must have drama in their lives, a former member of the other site made comments in Social about it causing a huge uproar from other users. After a while and a few short term bans of users, mods told everyone that if they talked about it again, they would get a permaban. Well, someone said something and nothing happened to that person despite the warning. Of course, in typical Dig fashion, he called them out on it. He got his permaban immediately.

In the end, I honestly think it was a good thing for him because this place could trigger him pretty badly while he tried to help people. However, in the end, it was sticking up for friends in the Social section that got him banned.


----------



## convert

when i hit the like button i do not mean i liked that he got banned it means i like that he helped people and yes the triggers can be bad sometimes.

My wwife hates this site for that reason (triggers)


----------



## Regret214

ConanHub said:


> Dig got banned soon after I joined TAM. Would have liked to interact with him. He would certainly have some insight that could be helpful to OP. Hope you two are having a good time.


I agree that he would definitely be able to give insight to the OP. As for having a good time, I can only say that we enjoyed his favorite 4 meat pizza followed by a couple vodka and Monsters followed by...well...things I did *not* ever do with the xOM!


----------



## Regret214

convert said:


> when i hit the like button i do not mean i liked that he got banned it means i like that he helped people and yes the triggers can be bad sometimes.
> 
> My wife hates this site for that reason (triggers)


Near the beginning of TAM AD (After Dig), he was able to handle the triggers a little better he said. I'd watch him sit at his laptop, take a deep breath and then the keyboard would begin clicking very rapidly. I think that deep breath was letting it (his hurt) go. Knowing that HE was okay and that it was simply time to help another person in pain.


----------



## GusPolinski

I never interacted w/ Dig, and have read only a few of his posts, but I'd like to buy that guy a beer. Hell, maybe two.


----------



## GusPolinski

Regret214 said:


> I agree that he would definitely be able to give insight to the OP. As for having a good time, I can only say that we enjoyed his favorite 4 meat pizza followed by a couple vodka and Monsters followed by...well...things I did *not* ever do with the xOM!


Ha ha! Yes! Go Regret!

ETA: Regret, your sig has inspired me to adopt one of my own. You will likely recognize it.


----------



## Regret214

My signature here is actually tatooed length wise from my neck to my mid back. It means something deep to both Dig and myself and is a constant reminder of reality.

OP, I wish there was something more I could say to help you with your struggle, however even if there was it is only your heart that can heal itself. That takes time regardless of divorce or reconciliation.


----------



## arbitrator

GusPolinski said:


> I never interacted w/ Dig, and have read only a few of his posts, but I'd like to buy that guy a beer. Hell, maybe two.


*Regret: Dig is a good TAM friend of mine! Please pass my very best on to him and assure him that he's missed here; but hopefully will be back among us soon!*


----------



## Regret214

arbitrator said:


> *Regret: Dig is a good TAM friend of mine! Please pass my very best on to him and assure him that he's missed here; but hopefully will be back among us soon!*


I remember him commenting about you since he came to TAM. I don't know to what extent you two talked, but I will certainly pass along your words to him. As for coming back, I don't think they will ever let him return even if he was put on triple-double super high probation. LOL. He wouldn't be content unless he were unfiltered.


----------



## GusPolinski

Regret214 said:


> I remember him commenting about you since he came to TAM. I don't know to what extent you two talked, but I will certainly pass along your words to him. As for coming back, I don't think they will ever let him return even if he was put on *triple-double super high probation*. LOL. He wouldn't be content unless he were unfiltered.


Ha!

Double Secret Probation!


----------



## Marduk

GusPolinski said:


> Generally speaking, I'd think that the majority of husbands would be willing to do pretty much whatever their wives asked of them in the bedroom. The line for most is probably drawn at things like MMF threesomes (or, honestly, any sex involving another male), swinging, any BDSM that goes beyond a light spanking, or anything involving "waste" material. So, for most BWs, I'd think that this wouldn't really be a concern.
> 
> As far as wives go (and, again, I'm speaking very generally), I'd think that this, more often than not, wouldn't be the case, as it seems that -- in most monogamous hetero relationships -- it's the female that is driving what will and won't go down in the bedroom. So, _for BHs, this is *almost always* a very real and valid concern_.
> 
> Ladies (or fellas), if I'm wrong, feel free to put me in my place.


I'd say that differently.

I think it's generally up to the female to say what _won't_ happen, and up to the male to say what _will_.

From the age of 15 I've been amazed what you can get simply by asking for it... or just trying to take it.


----------



## GusPolinski

marduk said:


> I'd say that differently.
> 
> I think it's generally up to the female to say what _won't_ happen, and up to the male to say what _will_.
> 
> From the age of 15 I've been amazed what you can get simply by asking for it... or just trying to take it.


Perhaps, but there is almost always going to be a cut-off point. (And hey, if not, that's great! :smthumbup So, in that respect, what absolutely won't happen is still up to the female. 

Any pushing beyond that... Well, get ready for handcuffs. And not the good kind.


----------



## Machiavelli

marduk said:


> I would agree, and add to it by saying that this seems to flip in mid 30s to mid 40s.
> 
> At that point, I've discovered that most women are attracted to most men in their same age group, and most men aren't.





arbitrator said:


> *Actually, marduk, I really think that you could justify extending that high-end age group upward from the mid-40's on through the 50's!*


You guys are absolutely correct in that the dynamic switches over when so many women "hit the wall" at or near age 40. This is something that has been recognized and commented on by observers of the human condition for centuries.

Another interesting thing is that a lot of guys who got a big jolt of T in early puberty (jocks) are fat asses by age 30 and a lot of high school nobodies come into their own, physically and financially, in their 20's. Those who get a confidence boost and start getting c0cky increase the pool percentage of higher ranked men. This is another reason for the eternal older man with younger women dynamic.


----------



## Machiavelli

GusPolinski said:


> Perhaps, but there is almost always going to be a cut-off point. (And hey, if not, that's great! :smthumbup So, in that respect, what absolutely won't happen is still up to the female.
> 
> Any pushing beyond that... Well, get ready for handcuffs. And not the good kind.


It all depends. You know the three rules of sexual aggression for males, don't you?


----------



## Regret214

GusPolinski said:


> Ha!
> 
> Double Secret Probation!


I didn't want to fully plagiarize (sp).


----------



## GusPolinski

Machiavelli said:


> It all depends. You know the three rules of sexual aggression for males, don't you?


Uhhh... what? Clearly I do not.


----------



## Regret214

Machiavelli said:


> It all depends. You know the three rules of sexual aggression for males, don't you?


Just to be silly and add a bit of levity, I must state that a lot of times when you show up in a thread, I can't help but to hear the 'Imperial March' theme from Star Wars ring in my head.


----------



## sidney2718

I had written:



> Originally Posted by sidney2718
> I rather suspect that they feel that the group here is a bunch of disgruntled male misogynists who aren't interested in what women think.





bandit.45 said:


> Hey quit talking about me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And me. I'm posting here too...


----------



## Regret214

GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... what? Clearly I do not.


Wait for it...wait for it....


----------



## Machiavelli

Machiavelli said:


> It all depends. You know the three rules of sexual aggression for males, don't you?





GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... what? Clearly I do not.


#1 Be Handsome.
#2 Be Attractive.
#3 Don't be unattractive.


----------



## sidney2718

badkarma2013 said:


> I don like what you are saying...but i can find nothing to say you are wrong..
> 
> The pheonix...if this is the case and there must be alot of them in marriage...WHAT IS ONE TO DO...your description could happen to anyone of us (MEN) who are/were married..
> 
> You had obviously looked at and stuided this...WHY WOULD A MAN MARRY?? because every man is subject to have this happen to him...
> 
> Answers..pls


I think men marry for sex. They also marry for companionship and because they want a family. And very few ever expect to cheat or to be cheated on.


----------



## Machiavelli

Regret214 said:


> Just to be silly and add a bit of levity, I must state that a lot of times when you show up in a thread, I can't help but to hear the 'Imperial March' theme from Star Wars ring in my head.


Vader? Seriously? That guy only had a 100 IQ tops. And no impulse control.


----------



## GusPolinski

Machiavelli said:


> #1 Be Handsome.
> #2 Be Attractive.
> #3 Don't be unattractive.


Oh man... That's a relief. Whew! Seriously, I had no idea what you were about to pull out of your hat.

Well played, good sir.


----------



## Regret214

Machiavelli said:


> Vader? Seriously? That guy only had a 100 IQ tops. And no impulse control.


For once, it's about the muse and not the man! It's that dreaded overtone that when it came out of the surround sound speakers in 1976 it made you sit still in your cinema seat because you knew nothing good could come in the next scene!


----------



## GusPolinski

Regret214 said:


> Just to be silly and add a bit of levity, I must state that a lot of times when you show up in a thread, I can't help but to hear the 'Imperial March' theme from Star Wars ring in my head.


Mach's posts are always a delight to read. He cuts to the chase and doesn't f*ck around w/ things like extraneous words.


----------



## Marduk

GusPolinski said:


> Perhaps, but there is almost always going to be a cut-off point. (And hey, if not, that's great! :smthumbup So, in that respect, what absolutely won't happen is still up to the female.
> 
> Any pushing beyond that... Well, get ready for handcuffs. And not the good kind.


Always listen to a "No."

Always listen to a "Stop!"

Always respect firm boundaries.

However what she says no to on Monday can be a "Maybe..." on Wednesday and a "OK" on Friday and "Yes, please" on Sunday.

Lots of times I'll just start doing something without asking. If she says "No" I stop. If she resists, I stop.

But I've been told by many women there's nothing more of a turnoff than a guy being tentative or asking permission.

There's also her cycle to consider. What my wife is eager to do on sexyfunplaytime week isn't fun for her at other times.


----------



## Machiavelli

Regret214 said:


> For once, it's about the muse and not the man! It's that dreaded overtone that when it came out of the surround sound speakers in 1976 it made you sit still in your cinema seat because you knew nothing good could come in the next scene!


And he was tall and dark... Two out of three ain't bad, right?


----------



## Regret214

GusPolinski said:


> Mach's posts are always a delight to read. He cuts to the chase and doesn't f*ck around w/ things like extraneous words.


He and I have had our share of scientific debate here. I can see where some need his version and I see where some it may not be what they need. I believe Machiavelli was one of the first responders to post on my initial thread here in April 2012.


----------



## Regret214

Machiavelli said:


> And he was tall and dark... Two out of three ain't bad, right?


So you're saying he screwed up #3 on the list aren't ya?! :rofl:


----------



## Machiavelli

Regret214 said:


> So you're saying he screwed up #3 on the list aren't ya?! :rofl:


touché


----------



## sidney2718

Regret214 said:


> For once, it's about the muse and not the man! It's that dreaded overtone that when it came out of the surround sound speakers in 1976 it made you sit still in your cinema seat because you knew nothing good could come in the next scene!


You've got that right. If only I could hear the mood music in my life I'd have avoided countless bad situations and the like.

But I guess you only hear mood music in the movies (and on TV).


----------



## Nucking Futs

Machiavelli said:


> #1 Be Handsome.
> #2 Be Attractive.
> #3 Don't be unattractive.


This is full of truthiness.

Sexual Harassment and You on Vimeo


----------



## Regret214

sidney2718 said:


> You've got that right. If only I could hear the mood music in my life I'd have avoided countless bad situations and the like.
> 
> But I guess you only hear mood music in the movies (and on TV).


Dig is really good with music and movies. I'm only good with movies. He said once the exact thing you said - "If only I could hear the mood music". Shortly after Dday, we took a drive for a date night. He played 2 songs for me, both of them by one of his favorite bands 'Lamb of God'. Really heavy stuff that I don't particularly care for but I listened. I remember the names of those songs as if this just happened yesterday. One was called "Descending" and the other was "Walk With Me in Hell". Since he is so big into music, I listened and read the words because he printed them out for me to read along. It was such a tremendous impact.

About a month later he gave me 2 more songs with the lyrics. One was "Someday" from the August Rush soundtrack and the other was "Dig" by 'Incubus'.

That's when his hope began. Music has always been a big part of his life. As a matter of fact, he just sang karaoke a couple weeks ago in a bar that we had never been to. He literally brought people to their feet singing "Black" by 'Pearl Jam'.

If I could steal your thought (and his), it would be find a piece of music that fits you and listen to it. Be comforted in your own way by it. Make it yours.


----------



## Machiavelli

Regret214 said:


> He and I have had our share of scientific debate here. I can see where some need his version and I see where some it may not be what they need.


True and I bet it continues. I aim for center of mass, meaning that what I say is probably going to be useful for most of the guys who wash up here, but there will always be millions of women who don't fall into that middle 80%; so, my advice might not work so well for the guys who are with them. And you're here to point that out.



Regret214 said:


> I believe Machiavelli was one of the first responders to post on my initial thread here in April 2012.


Went back to look and you are correct: third reply. It's interesting to scroll through that thread and see a lot of poster's handles that we haven't seen in a while.


----------



## Machiavelli

Nucking Futs said:


> This is full of truthiness.
> 
> Sexual Harassment and You on Vimeo


Thanks for posting that. As Seinfeld used to say, "It's funny, because it's true."


----------



## GusPolinski

Pearl Jam ROOOOOCKS!!! Given all of the cassettes and CDs that I wore out "back in the day", I'd swear that "Ten" was the freaking soundtrack for my teen and young adult years. "Black" especially is super intense.

And they just announced the US leg of their 2014 tour!


----------



## bandit.45

Bunny Ranch!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## convert

Machiavelli said:


> Thanks for posting that. As Seinfeld used to say, "It's funny, because it's true."


Thanks I loved that


----------



## Squeakr

GusPolinski said:


> Pearl Jam ROOOOOCKS!!! Given all of the cassettes and CDs that I wore out "back in the day", I'd swear that "Ten" was the freaking soundtrack for my teen and young adult years. "Black" especially is super intense.
> 
> And they just announced the US leg of their 2014 tour!


How many times do you have to play a CD to wear it out???

PJ is great but was always more partial to Alice in Chains and Soundgarden myself.


----------



## GusPolinski

Squeakr said:


> How many times do you have to play a CD to wear it out???


A LOT. :smthumbup:



Squeakr said:


> PJ is great but was always more partial to Alice in Chains and Soundgarden myself.


Great bands! Musically speaking, I tend to be sort of stuck in the 90's.


----------



## Healer

Machiavelli said:


> Five minutes of Alpha trumps five years of Beta. Had you stayed together, she'd still be denying you that same stuff. Women have an inner slvt that other women, AKA "society", try to shame into staying in the closet. When a woman has an affair, she's already outside of society, so has to let the inner slvt run wild, because this is her chance. She can never allow the father of her kids to know that she likes to have her backdoor plowed or a threesome, that's what APs are for. Kinky sex is part and parcel of affairs. It's what's for dinner, if the AP is alpha, and a guy who goes around banging married women looks very alpha to women, they have the urge to serve it up in big portions.


I really need to hose off after reading that (because it's disgusting, and it's true).


----------



## ConanHub

Healer said:


> I really need to hose off after reading that (because it's disgusting, and it's true).


:lol::rofl::lol::rofl::smthumbup:


----------



## Healer

Machiavelli said:


> All that and kids have to be involved. No kids? ¡Adios muchacha!


I have kids AND my stbxww was willing to do anything sexually to keep me from divorcing her. I count myself to be very lucky that a PA is a deal breaker for me, period. I honestly believe if I would've chosen to R and stayed with her, it would've been the death of me. She knew it was a dealbreaker too - but when I asked her to R, when I said "I'll fight for us", it gave her a glimmer of hope. And after 10 weeks of false R, I took that glimmer of hope, beat it to death with a hammer and filed for D. I took my life back, and I took my balls back.


----------



## wranglerman

Healer said:


> I took my balls back.


How tight was the lid of the jam jar she kept them in?


----------



## badkarma2013

sidney2718 said:


> I think men marry for sex. They also marry for companionship and because they want a family. And very few ever expect to cheat or to be cheated on.




BINGO....Sidney2718....after reading and re reading many article s and threads and with things that happened to me in my marriage..... 

That about sums it up..Simplistic BUT TRUE...


----------



## bandit.45

badkarma2013 said:


> BINGO....Sidney2718....after reading and re reading many article s and threads and with things that happened to me in my marriage.....
> 
> That about sums it up..Simplistic BUT TRUE...


So you were sort of too busy sh!tcanning her and nuking her life that you never thought to sit down and ask her what spurred her to be such a hose queen?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

Healer said:


> I have kids AND my stbxww was willing to do anything sexually to keep me from divorcing her. I count myself to be very lucky that a PA is a deal breaker for me, period. I honestly believe if I would've chosen to R and stayed with her, it would've been the death of me. She knew it was a dealbreaker too - but when I asked her to R, when I said "I'll fight for us", it gave her a glimmer of hope. And after 10 weeks of false R, I took that glimmer of hope, beat it to death with a hammer and filed for D. I took my life back, and I took my balls back.


Yeah, somehow finding out she's still getting drilled by the OM (false R) just kills the whole sexual appetite, no matter what tasty morsels are on the menu.

Here's to younger women and older whiskey.


----------



## Wolf9

Regret214 said:


> I remember him commenting about you since he came to TAM. I don't know to what extent you two talked, but I will certainly pass along your words to him. As for coming back, I don't think they will ever let him return even if he was put on triple-double super high probation. LOL. He wouldn't be content unless he were unfiltered.


I was just reading some of his threads recently, Please pass along information that I want to discuss nagging question of how to avoid feeling of going back in time from another interesting perspective-

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51574-big-bang-theory-infidelity.html


----------



## Marduk

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah, somehow finding out she's still getting drilled by the OM (false R) just kills the whole sexual appetite, no matter what tasty morsels are on the menu.
> 
> Here's to younger women and older whiskey.


I recommend the older whiskey poured over the younger woman.


----------



## treyvion

Wolf9 said:


> I was just reading some of his threads recently, Please pass along information that I want to discuss nagging question of how to avoid feeling of going back in time from another interesting perspective-
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51574-big-bang-theory-infidelity.html


I like Digs big "bang" theory. In a way you can model the likelihood to cheat and the correct conditions for long enough make it potential even in someone who knows they wont cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hurtin_Still

marduk said:


> I recommend the older whiskey poured over the younger woman.


.....does any of that include the use of a lit match?


----------



## ConanHub

Hurtin_Still said:


> .....does any of that include the use of a lit match?


Your idea of a hot woman???

Just trying to make light but I guess you're Hurtin_Still.


----------



## Healer

wranglerman said:


> How tight was the lid of the jam jar she kept them in?


Hermetically sealed.


----------



## sidney2718

treyvion said:


> I like Digs big "bang" theory. In a way you can model the likelihood to cheat and the correct conditions for long enough make it potential even in someone who knows they wont cheat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like it too. But my understanding of it is probably different than most. I think that Dig was talking about the fact that at some point in time an affair starts. That point is usually well before any intimate sex is involved. Call it the the time at which intimate sex is going to happen.

The betrayed spouse asks why? The wandering spouse doesn't know. There is no going back in time to just before that "affair point" was reached. That's what's like what Dig called the "Planck time".

So the WS knows that there was a point at which sex was not a certainty and then there was a point where it was a certainty and what happened in between those is almost always unknown to anybody.

Just my two cents.


----------



## treyvion

sidney2718 said:


> I like it too. But my understanding of it is probably different than most. I think that Dig was talking about the fact that at some point in time an affair starts. That point is usually well before any intimate sex is involved. Call it the the time at which intimate sex is going to happen.


That point in time could've started on a GNO, when she realizes many of her friends are cheaters, and she kept going and never said a word. Over time, she gets swayed to indulging because "what he don't know won't hurt him".



sidney2718 said:


> The betrayed spouse asks why? The wandering spouse doesn't know. There is no going back in time to just before that "affair point" was reached. That's what's like what Dig called the "Planck time".


They make a decision, and they know they are going to cheat. Then they do cheat. After one time, they may be scared and feeling paranoid like the spouse knows something, but they will indulge a second and third time, realizing that they are getting away with it. Over time they will grow this second life to god like proportions.



sidney2718 said:


> So the WS knows that there was a point at which sex was not a certainty and then there was a point where it was a certainty and what happened in between those is almost always unknown to anybody.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Agree. We're all overanylizing it, but it helps us to understand what's really going on. That everything could've been PERFECT for years, and the spouse gets curious.


----------



## Hurtin_Still

*Re: Re: Things WS did with AP*



ConanHub said:


> Your idea of a hot woman???
> 
> Just trying to make light but I guess you're Hurtin_Still.


.....I suppose you could put it that way ...in the right situation.

.....actually ...to be honest ....my idea of a super hot woman ...is one that says, "I love you" ...and does ....and then exchanges "I Do's" with you .....and keeps all the promises that precede them.

.....I like to keep it simple.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Hope I haven't missed something as I post this. But if music can give a BS hope, imagine what divorce could do for them. make that hope into a positive reality.....


----------



## sidney2718

treyvion said:


> That point in time could've started on a GNO, when she realizes many of her friends are cheaters, and she kept going and never said a word. Over time, she gets swayed to indulging because "what he don't know won't hurt him".


While I agree with most of what you wrote, I don't think that many WS decide to cheat before having someone to cheat with. I think that the atmosphere around a GNO might well make meeting someone easier, I don't think that alone guarantees an affair.



> They make a decision, and they know they are going to cheat. Then they do cheat. After one time, they may be scared and feeling paranoid like the spouse knows something, but they will indulge a second and third time, realizing that they are getting away with it. Over time they will grow this second life to god like proportions.


Oh yes. I was talking about the moment the WS first KNEW that they were going physical. I say physical because, unlike an EA, that's a definite act that can't "just happen".



> We're all overanylizing it, but it helps us to understand what's really going on. That everything could've been PERFECT for years, and the spouse gets curious.


Yes, we are over analyzing it, but I do think it helps explain why so many WS's can't say exactly how it happened, what made that meeting different than the others, and so on.


----------



## Regret214

nuclearnightmare said:


> Hope I haven't missed something as I post this. But if music can give a BS hope, imagine what divorce could do for them. make that hope into a positive reality.....


What might work for one does not work for another. Imagine what TAM would be like if some people understood that. That would be apositive reality.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badkarma2013

They make a decision, and they know they are going to cheat. Then they do cheat. After one time, they may be scared and feeling paranoid like the spouse knows something, but they will indulge a second and third time, realizing that they are getting away with it. Over time they will grow this second life to god like proportions.


Oh yes. I was talking about the moment the WS first KNEW that they were going physical. I say physical because, unlike an EA, that's a definite act that can't "just happen".



Yes, we are over analyzing it, but I do think it helps explain why so many WS's can't say exactly how it happened, what made that meeting different than the others, and so on.

Again, thank you for your insight......After D-DAY...and thru my D....and for months afterward...I asked Many WWs ( better than 15 -19) <emailed and text them....NOT one could give me a concrete REASON... for cheating....NOT ONE.....

I never got an answer as to why and Really how it progressed to PA...In my case.

About half of the WWs i commuicated with...said their marriages were relatively HAPPY...and the fallout from their affair was HELL...(many getting D..about 70%)...they said they felt Horriable and extremely GUILTY for what they did to their BHs....BUT NOT SO MUCH THE ACTUAL AFFAIR.....

Again with no good reason..IMO


----------



## jim123

badkarma2013 said:


> They make a decision, and they know they are going to cheat. Then they do cheat. After one time, they may be scared and feeling paranoid like the spouse knows something, but they will indulge a second and third time, realizing that they are getting away with it. Over time they will grow this second life to god like proportions.
> 
> 
> Oh yes. I was talking about the moment the WS first KNEW that they were going physical. I say physical because, unlike an EA, that's a definite act that can't "just happen".
> 
> You stats are consistent with what I see. If the WW does not go to IC, they will never know.
> 
> Yes, we are over analyzing it, but I do think it helps explain why so many WS's can't say exactly how it happened, what made that meeting different than the others, and so on.
> 
> Again, thank you for your insight......After D-DAY...and thru my D....and for months afterward...I asked Many WWs ( better than 15 -19) <emailed and text them....NOT one could give me a concrete REASON... for cheating....NOT ONE.....
> 
> I never got an answer as to why and Really how it progressed to PA...In my case.
> 
> About half of the WWs i commuicated with...said their marriages were relatively HAPPY...and the fallout from their affair was HELL...(many getting D..about 70%)...they said they felt Horriable and extremely GUILTY for what they did to their BHs....BUT NOT SO MUCH THE ACTUAL AFFAIR.....
> 
> Again with no good reason..IMO


----------



## Ripper

Regret214 said:


> What might work for one does not work for another. Imagine what TAM would be like if some people understood that. That would be apositive reality.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Never met anyone who regretted divorcing a wayward spouse. Seen numerous examples of people who regret trying to reconcile, some as long as twenty years later. That is why I always suggest divorce in these instances. 

Situation changes when children are involved or the wayward is holding you hostage to the tune of half or more of your assets. Then it becomes a cost to benefit ratio. The betrayed spouse's emotional/mental well-being against that of their children and/or financial standing. 

Here is a thought experiment: If you could file an at fault divorce for infidelity where the wayward had to walk away with nothing (no assets, alimony, child custody, etc) how many cases of reconciliation would you see?


----------



## Squeakr

Ripper said:


> Never met anyone who regretted divorcing a wayward spouse. Seen numerous examples of people who regret trying to reconcile, some as long as twenty years later. That is why I always suggest divorce in these instances.
> 
> Situation changes when children are involved or the wayward is holding you hostage to the tune of half or more of your assets. Then it becomes a cost to benefit ratio. The betrayed spouse's emotional/mental well-being against that of their children and/or financial standing.
> 
> Here is a thought experiment: If you could file an at fault divorce for infidelity where the wayward had to walk away with nothing (no assets, alimony, child custody, etc) how many cases of reconciliation would you see?


These aren't really fair statements of finding. I bet that if you asked those same people the majority would say that they wished they would have never married the WS in the first place so by that same logic it would be a good reason and argument against anyone ever getting married (the few times it seems that someone would have a hard time answering against marriage is when kids were the result of the marriage and if it never occurred then the kids wouldn't exist either). 

As to the thought provoking experiment, you would also have to ponder if everyone knew that this outcome is what happens with cases of filing for infidelity being allowed, would there be less infidelity occurring or attempted? (When the cost of being caught is so great would fewer take the leap and attempt it, as it stands now the stigma is very little and the punishment is even less generally, so where is the real deterrent here as the WS generally knows they are only going to lose half of everything and suffer no social stigma or punishments. )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper

Squeakr said:


> These aren't really fair statements of finding. I bet that if you asked those same people the majority would say that they wished they would have never married the WS in the first place so by that same logic it would be a good reason and argument against anyone ever getting married (the few times it seems that someone would have a hard time answering against marriage is when kids were the result of the marriage and if it never occurred then the kids wouldn't exist either).
> 
> *You have went somewhere with this, that despite my best attempts, I can't follow. My point was, the number of "successful" reconciliations (where both spouses are happy) are dismally low. It seems reckless to me to be a cheerleader for reconciliation when so very few succeed. Those that do are beyond fortunate. (If that is the word to use for anyone affected by infidelity) *
> 
> As to the thought provoking experiment, you would also have to ponder if everyone knew that this outcome is what happens with cases of filing for infidelity being allowed, would there be less infidelity occurring or attempted? (When the cost of being caught is so great would fewer take the leap and attempt it, as it stands now the stigma is very little and the punishment is even less generally, so where is the real deterrent here as the WS generally knows they are only going to lose half of everything and suffer no social stigma or punishments. )
> 
> *It would never go away all together, but you would see a noticeable drop in occurrences.*


----------



## Squeakr

I am saying that of those that you have met that never regretted divorcing a WS (even those after long R attempts), I can bet pretty close to the same number of those people would say that they also regret ever marrying the WS (unless kids resulted from the marriage).

This would then say that M is a hard thing to recommend either (especially when you figure that they say 50% of all Marriages end in D, I bet close to that same 50% wish they never would have married in the first place).


----------



## DTO

ThePheonix said:


> Dawg you just have to understand that to women, what's sick and disgusting with one guy is hot and heavy with another. That's the way it works.


Totally agree. The OP might have been the "safe guy" who was chosen for marriage because he was warm, respectable, secure, etc. The AP, OTOH, is relatively powerful (her boss), makes better $ (at least more than her), and so on.

Personally, I would not care much what anybody I was with did before or after me. If a lady said "no, but I don't do that with anybody" I would not feel any better about it. If she said "OMG you are the first guy I've ever let do that to me" I would not feel like a stud or conqueror.


----------



## Regret214

Ripper said:


> Never met anyone who regretted divorcing a wayward spouse.
> 
> *I'm sure you haven't. However, don't think for a moment that divorce is going to be the end of the hurt/pain. This board is littered with proof of that. Look at some of the posters who have been here for years and can do nothing but tell everyone to divorce because it's the only way to solve infidelity. That's because it "worked" for them. Which is kind of suspect as they continue to post here at TAM and makes one wonder.*
> 
> Seen numerous examples of people who regret trying to reconcile, some as long as twenty years later. That is why I always suggest divorce in these instances.


Well, I'm glad that you don't hold any position of power except in your own mind. I suggest not really a lot of people listen to you and it pi$$es you off to see quite a few people who come to TAM actually reconcile as they're not taking your suggestion.


----------



## treyvion

Regret214 said:


> Well, I'm glad that you don't hold any position of power except in your own mind. I suggest not really a lot of people listen to you and it pi$$es you off to see quite a few people who come to TAM actually reconcile as they're not taking your suggestion.


Im not sure I agree. Ive been on TAM and similar sites since 2007. Most of the reconciliatoons with a wayward spouse fails. Its an extremely painful proposition. For it to work the cheater has to extract the cheating in themself out by the roots. Tons of habits, behaviors and interests have to change and its painful. Most people arent going to let it go. The ones that do, let it go because they are no lomger allowed onto that path. We get a small handful of stories were the cheater gets dumped or put in harms way by the affair partner and drops the cheating lifestyle in attempt to come home remorsefully. Many even when caught will maimtain their lies and start a new affair. Its why dumping a cheater usually is a good practice. They will learn they cannot do that to you. Later on after life has punished them and cleansed them you may allow them back as they have changed. But they have to finish the path they were on or let it go by their choice. It usually takes years and alot of bad experiences. I still believe in love, but we have to rrspect tge psychology and dynamics of affairs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

badkarma2013 said:


> They make a decision, and they know they are going to cheat. Then they do cheat. After one time, they may be scared and feeling paranoid like the spouse knows something, but they will indulge a second and third time, realizing that they are getting away with it. Over time they will grow this second life to god like proportions.
> 
> 
> Oh yes. I was talking about the moment the WS first KNEW that they were going physical. I say physical because, unlike an EA, that's a definite act that can't "just happen".
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, we are over analyzing it, but I do think it helps explain why so many WS's can't say exactly how it happened, what made that meeting different than the others, and so on.
> 
> Again, thank you for your insight......After D-DAY...and thru my D....and for months afterward...I asked Many WWs ( better than 15 -19) <emailed and text them....NOT one could give me a concrete REASON... for cheating....NOT ONE.....
> 
> I never got an answer as to why and Really how it progressed to PA...In my case.
> 
> About half of the WWs i commuicated with...said their marriages were relatively HAPPY...and the fallout from their affair was HELL...(many getting D..about 70%)...they said they felt Horriable and extremely GUILTY for what they did to their BHs....BUT NOT SO MUCH THE ACTUAL AFFAIR.....
> 
> Again with no good reason..IMO


Good info. I wonder how the story wouldve looked getting the feedback from several hundred waywards. My question to them is if it was good at home.... And the sex was good and their spouse still secy to them.... What the hell did they gain out of cheating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## arbitrator

treyvion said:


> Good info. I wonder how the story wouldve looked getting the feedback from several hundred waywards. My question to them is if it was good at home.... And the sex was good and their spouse still secy to them.... *What the hell did they gain out of cheating?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Only the self-entitled "right" of getting to see exactly what some brand new "strange" feels like.

And preeminently, while largely possessing the very same physical attributes/components of most other people, to them at least, it probably feels like something from right out of Fifty Shades of Grey. And will continue to do so up until "the new" is worn out of it, or the AP becomes psychologically uninteresting to them ~ leading them in yet another quest for yet a newer version of strange, that might make that jaded, self-entitled heart of theirs palpitate even more than ever before!*


----------



## wranglerman

Ripper said:


> Never met anyone who regretted divorcing a wayward spouse. Seen numerous examples of people who regret trying to reconcile


Where you favor D over R is that it is an almost instant end to the potential suffering, not really the end, only the beginning of the end, to folk like you it is like a maths equation BS + WS = uncertain pain and over an open time frame. BS + D = end of that chapter and start again without the hurt and pain, it is sort of circumventing the dealing with the situation plan, usually favored by those that are not all that invested in their M in the first place or the A crossed the deal breaking line in the sand.

Rs fail for a multitude of reasons, significant reasons being that it was a false R and the WS was still fooling around and typically it was only after a given period(normally around the 2yr mark) the BS has either had enough of the self imposed torture of attempting to trust their WS or because they unknowingly allowed a slow progressed 180 and actually grew away from their WS and stopped investing in the relationship from DDay on leading to the end of the relationship.

I would also think that a great many folk have a different idea of what their deal breakers are, PA is instant fvck off, and she knows I'm a one strike guy as far as EAs go now so, therefore it also comes down to how forgivable the crimes are? 

I do get fed up with the "straight to D and collect $200" crowd, especially when they just do not ask enough questions to form that conclusion, there will often be little or no background questioning before the whole "get a lawyer and kick them out" scentences pop up.


----------



## Nucking Futs

wranglerman said:


> Where you favor D over R is that it is an almost instant end to the potential suffering, not really the end, only the beginning of the end, to folk like you it is like a maths equation BS + WS = uncertain pain and over an open time frame. BS + D = end of that chapter and start again without the hurt and pain, it is sort of circumventing the dealing with the situation plan, usually favored by those that are not all that invested in their M in the first place or the A crossed the deal breaking line in the sand.
> 
> Rs fail for a multitude of reasons, significant reasons being that it was a false R and the WS was still fooling around and typically it was only after a given period(normally around the 2yr mark) the BS has either had enough of the self imposed torture of attempting to trust their WS or because they unknowingly allowed a slow progressed 180 and actually grew away from their WS and stopped investing in the relationship from DDay on leading to the end of the relationship.
> 
> I would also think that a great many folk have a different idea of what their deal breakers are, PA is instant fvck off, and she knows I'm a one strike guy as far as EAs go now so, therefore it also comes down to how forgivable the crimes are?
> 
> I do get fed up with the "straight to D and collect $200" crowd, especially when they just do not ask enough questions to form that conclusion,* there will often be little or no background questioning before the whole "get a lawyer and kick them out" scentences pop up.*


Don't think that every instance of that advice being given is intended to end the relationship. I tell BS' all the time to file and have the cheater served as a bucket of cold water in the face that the behavior is unacceptable. I've said it over and over and I'll keep saying it, the initial steps to ending the marriage or breaking up the affair for reconciliation are the same.


----------



## wranglerman

Nucking Futs said:


> Don't think that every instance of that advice being given is intended to end the relationship. I tell BS' all the time to file and have the cheater served as a bucket of cold water in the face that the behavior is unacceptable. I've said it over and over and I'll keep saying it, the initial steps to ending the marriage or breaking up the affair for reconciliation are the same.


Don't get me wrong, I am a paid up member of the tough love crowd, and I do tend to agree with the notion of having them served and done so publicly along with global exposure as a means of humiliating them into waking up to reality, but there are a few who put "infidelity" and "out of my life forever" into the same scentence all the time and they mean it.

The saying here is "In order to save your M, you have to risk losing your M".

Both exposure and filing for D will put the M at risk, but unless there has been deal breaker lines crossed then it can be saved.


----------



## jim123

wranglerman said:


> Where you favor D over R is that it is an almost instant end to the potential suffering, not really the end, only the beginning of the end, to folk like you it is like a maths equation BS + WS = uncertain pain and over an open time frame. BS + D = end of that chapter and start again without the hurt and pain, it is sort of circumventing the dealing with the situation plan, usually favored by those that are not all that invested in their M in the first place or the A crossed the deal breaking line in the sand.
> 
> Rs fail for a multitude of reasons, significant reasons being that it was a false R and the WS was still fooling around and typically it was only after a given period(normally around the 2yr mark) the BS has either had enough of the self imposed torture of attempting to trust their WS or because they unknowingly allowed a slow progressed 180 and actually grew away from their WS and stopped investing in the relationship from DDay on leading to the end of the relationship.
> 
> I would also think that a great many folk have a different idea of what their deal breakers are, PA is instant fvck off, and she knows I'm a one strike guy as far as EAs go now so, therefore it also comes down to how forgivable the crimes are?
> 
> I do get fed up with the "straight to D and collect $200" crowd, especially when they just do not ask enough questions to form that conclusion, there will often be little or no background questioning before the whole "get a lawyer and kick them out" scentences pop up.


It is the most effective way to get to the heart of the matter for both of you. There are no questions to ask and none that matter. The sooner that the BS gets to what is real, the better the decision.

Take control of your life.


----------



## treyvion

arbitrator said:


> *Only the self-entitled "right" of getting to see exactly what some brand new "strange" feels like.
> 
> And preeminently, while largely possessing the very same physical attributes/components of most other people, to them at least, it probably feels like something from right out of Fifty Shades of Grey. And will continue to do so up until "the new" is worn out of it, or the AP becomes psychologically uninteresting to them ~ leading them in yet another quest for a newer version that might lead that jaded, self-entitled heart of theirs to palpitate even more than before!*


This is truth. Constantly seeking a stronger "in love" hit. What if over time they realize "new" is bull****? They may do it for bragging rights to the single and cheating friends. Or they may just be an overly negative fault finder who is going to be sick of anyone over time. Thing about it is you dont have to deal wi th whatever it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper

Regret214 said:


> I suggest not really a lot of people listen to you


About as many as listen to a "reformed wayward". Maybe we are both wasting our time.

Look, if we met in reality I imagine it would be like tying two cats tails together and throwing them over a tree branch. We aren't likely to agree on anything, including each others existence. 

Lets agree to disagree and keep the sniping and personal attacks out of the forum.


----------



## Regret214

Ripper said:


> About as many as listen to a "reformed wayward". Maybe we are both wasting our time.


Actually, this is where time in the trenches of TAM actually means something. I've been active here for two years and have helped countless members with advice. It's probably because I try to give advice on a case by case basis instead of using blanket suggestions.

That said...I'm pretty much finished here anyways. The newer crowd of TAM is not conducive to healing any longer. It just seems like the only helping hand as of late is "nuke em!"

Which is tragic and in no honest way is coping with infidelity.

See you later TAM. It was a good experience for Dig and me. Thanks to those people who cared enough to hang with us and support us. Without you, I honestly don't know if we would've made it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

Ripper said:


> About as many as listen to a "reformed wayward". Maybe we are both wasting our time.
> 
> Look, if we met in reality I imagine it would be like tying two cats tails together and throwing them over a tree branch. We aren't likely to agree on anything, including each others existence.
> *
> Lets agree to disagree and keep the sniping and personal attacks out of the forum.*


This has my vote.


----------



## larry.gray

Regret214 said:


> Well, I'm glad that you don't hold any position of power except in your own mind. I suggest not really a lot of people listen to you and it pi$$es you off to see quite a few people who come to TAM actually reconcile as they're not taking your suggestion.


I don't want to pee on the parade of those that do reconcile. I'm happy for those that do, including you and dig, the Adams, EI and B1.... great for you. But don't for a moment think you're the majority. Far more often D-day starts the path to divorce than it does result in reconciliation.


----------



## jim123

Ripper said:


> About as many as listen to a "reformed wayward". Maybe we are both wasting our time.
> 
> Look, if we met in reality I imagine it would be like tying two cats tails together and throwing them over a tree branch. We aren't likely to agree on anything, including each others existence.
> 
> Lets agree to disagree and keep the sniping and personal attacks out of the forum.


Actually I learned more from the WW as I already knew what it felt like to be a BS.


----------



## danger_mouse

Shame but true, better to just divorce and spend your time single and banging anything with a pulse, why reconcile with a woman who is going to scrutinize your ball sack looking for a blondie when she's a brunette 

Hit em' and quit em' :smthumbup:


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## Ripper




----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Regret214 said:


> Actually, this is where time in the trenches of TAM actually means something. I've been active here for two years and have helped countless members with advice. It's probably because I try to give advice on a case by case basis instead of using blanket suggestions.
> 
> That said...I'm pretty much finished here anyways. The newer crowd of TAM is not conducive to healing any longer. It just seems like the only helping hand as of late is "nuke em!"
> 
> Which is tragic and in no honest way is coping with infidelity.
> 
> See you later TAM. It was a good experience for Dig and me. Thanks to those people who cared enough to hang with us and support us. Without you, I honestly don't know if we would've made it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There's a lot more to this site than sitting here on CWI. Many people could benefit from your experience in fixing a marriage. Not all your efforts have to towards problems with infidelity. Try the Gen Relationship forum.


----------



## badkarma2013

Regret214 said:


> Actually, this is where time in the trenches of TAM actually means something. I've been active here for two years and have helped countless members with advice. It's probably because I try to give advice on a case by case basis instead of using blanket suggestions.
> 
> That said...I'm pretty much finished here anyways. The newer crowd of TAM is not conducive to healing any longer. It just seems like the only helping hand as of late is "nuke em!"
> 
> Which is tragic and in no honest way is coping with infidelity.
> 
> See you later TAM. It was a good experience for Dig and me. Thanks to those people who cared enough to hang with us and support us. Without you, I honestly don't know if we would've made it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I rarely agreed with you but you are ONE WHO MADE IT..

I have the upmost respect for you And Dig....

My case was different and so tragically painful i had to nuke it to save myself...i could not go for years trying to R when i did nothing to deserve this...

YOU WILL BE MISSED...


----------



## davecarter

larry.gray said:


> ...Far more often D-day starts the path to divorce than it does result in reconciliation...


...for me, thank f*ck for that.


----------



## badkarma2013

larry.gray said:


> I don't want to pee on the parade of those that do reconcile. I'm happy for those that do, including you and dig, the Adams, EI and B1.... great for you. But don't for a moment think you're the majority. Far more often D-day starts the path to divorce than it does result in reconciliation.




Again..Im speaking from the BHs point of view and stats. from that perspective......75%-80% of bhs file for D..another 8-10% end in D in 3-5 years...

Reconciliation seems like a losing bet for BHs....


----------



## sidney2718

treyvion said:


> Im not sure I agree. Ive been on TAM and similar sites since 2007. Most of the reconciliatoons with a wayward spouse fails. Its an extremely painful proposition. For it to work the cheater has to extract the cheating in themself out by the roots. Tons of habits, behaviors and interests have to change and its painful. Most people arent going to let it go. The ones that do, let it go because they are no lomger allowed onto that path. We get a small handful of stories were the cheater gets dumped or put in harms way by the affair partner and drops the cheating lifestyle in attempt to come home remorsefully. Many even when caught will maimtain their lies and start a new affair. Its why dumping a cheater usually is a good practice. They will learn they cannot do that to you. Later on after life has punished them and cleansed them you may allow them back as they have changed. But they have to finish the path they were on or let it go by their choice. It usually takes years and alot of bad experiences. I still believe in love, but we have to rrspect tge psychology and dynamics of affairs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I may be wrong but I think that more folks who reconcile stay together than folks who divorce and then try to reconcile. In any event the number of successes is low.


----------



## sidney2718

Nucking Futs said:


> Don't think that every instance of that advice being given is intended to end the relationship. I tell BS' all the time to file and have the cheater served as a bucket of cold water in the face that the behavior is unacceptable. I've said it over and over and I'll keep saying it, the initial steps to ending the marriage or breaking up the affair for reconciliation are the same.


I think I agree with this. The affair has to stop and the WS's attention focused on the BS and the marriage. Hitting the WS with papers is certainly one way to do that, especially when nothing else works.

Many of the successful reconciliations stories we've had on TAM have come about because the WS was immediately remorseful and cooperated fully. If that isn't the case, things get difficult right away and serving papers can be helpful.


----------



## sidney2718

wranglerman said:


> Don't get me wrong, I am a paid up member of the tough love crowd, and I do tend to agree with the notion of having them served and done so publicly along with global exposure as a means of humiliating them into waking up to reality, but there are a few who put "infidelity" and "out of my life forever" into the same scentence all the time and they mean it.
> 
> The saying here is "In order to save your M, you have to risk losing your M".
> 
> Both exposure and filing for D will put the M at risk, but unless there has been deal breaker lines crossed then it can be saved.


Sure, but deal breakers are one person's rules. Sometimes the situation is a bit more complex and the rule forces a person to do something that they really do not want to do.


----------



## sidney2718

badkarma2013 said:


> Again..Im speaking from the BHs point of view and stats. from that perspective......75%-80% of bhs file for D..another 8-10% end in D in 3-5 years...
> 
> Reconciliation seems like a losing bet for BHs....


Seems to be. But for BW's, reconciliation seems to be the choice taken.

I wonder why that is... :scratchhead:


----------



## xakulax

sidney2718 said:


> Seems to be. But for BW's, reconciliation seems to be the choice taken.
> 
> I wonder why that is... :scratchhead:



I think there are various possibilities for this She could be judging him by his ability to raise his children and provide for the family financially social and cultural norms the old cliche stand by your man concept As well as the general belief that this is what all men do the boys will be boy mentality all of which are outside influences that encourage forgiveness from betrayed wife.


----------



## xakulax

sidney2718 said:


> Sure, but deal breakers are one person's rules. Sometimes the situation is a bit more complex and the rule forces a person to do something that they really do not want to do.






By definition a deal breaker is the catch that a particular individual cannot overlook and ultimately outweighs any redeeming quality the individual may possess no matter how complex the situation the dealbreaker is literally just that a point in which one cannot overlook the actions of the other


----------



## xakulax

badkarma2013 said:


> Again..Im speaking from the BHs point of view and stats. from that perspective......75%-80% of bhs file for D..another 8-10% end in D in 3-5 years...
> 
> Reconciliation seems like a losing bet for BHs....




According to the latest statistics is a losing bet for both parties


Percent of marriages where one or both spouses admit to infidelity, either physical or emotional	41 %


Percent of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had 57 %


Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had 54 %


*Percentage of marriages that last after an affair has been admitted to or discovered 31 %*


Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity on business trips	35%


Average length of an affair 2 years


http://www.statisticbrain.com/infidelity-statistics/


----------



## nuclearnightmare

sidney2718 said:


> Seems to be. But for BW's, reconciliation seems to be the choice taken.
> 
> I wonder why that is... :scratchhead:


The fairest answer is because women care more about transcendence - maintaining the love and support of communities and families. Men care more about independence - maintaining the dignity and integrity of the individual.

IMO many of the tough trials of marriage should just be endured to keep the marriage and family intact. Abuse crosses the line however -- the dignity if the abused spouse is too compromised. IMO same goes for infidelity, in most cases. So on that I think women have something to learn from men (often in life it is the other way around). Leave the cheating spouse.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

sidney2718 said:


> Seems to be. But for BW's, reconciliation seems to be the choice taken.
> 
> I wonder why that is... :scratchhead:


The fairest answer is because women care more about transcendence - maintaining the love and support of communities and families. Men care more about independence - maintaining the dignity and integrity of the individual.

IMO many of the tough trials of marriage should just be endured to keep the marriage and family intact. Abuse crosses the line however -- the dignity if the abused spouse is too compromised. IMO same goes for infidelity, in most cases. So on that I think women have something to learn from men (often in life it is the other way around). Leave the cheating spouse.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

sidney2718 said:


> Seems to be. But for BW's, reconciliation seems to be the choice taken.
> 
> I wonder why that is... :scratchhead:


----------



## Squeakr

sidney2718 said:


> Seems to be. But for BW's, reconciliation seems to be the choice taken.
> 
> I wonder why that is... :scratchhead:


It could also be the differences in the way women and men are wired within their relationships towards love and sex. With men generally seeing sex as an action and love something not totally and wholly related to the act,such as there is have sex and making love, and the two arent always mutually related so men can generally have sex without love but women aren't the opposite and generally need to feel the love first to engage and not the act fully (keep in mind I said within relationships). 

I think me. See it as they are replaced as they feel that their spouse wouldn't just have sex for the action, and me will claim it was only for the action and women feel this could be true. My take on a of this and why it is such. It is also a major ego blow to a guy to feel that he has been replaced in such an easy and non-chalant manor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xakulax

Squeakr said:


> It could also be the differences in the way women and men are wired within their relationships towards love and sex. With men generally seeing sex as an action and love something not totally and wholly related to the act,such as there is have sex and making love, and the two arent always mutually related so men can generally have sex without love but women aren't the opposite and generally need to feel the love first to engage and not the act fully (keep in mind I said within relationships).
> 
> I think me. See it as they are replaced as they feel that their spouse wouldn't just have sex for the action, and me will claim it was only for the action and women feel this could be true. My take on a of this and why it is such. It is also a major ego blow to a guy to feel that he has been replaced in such an easy and non-chalant manor.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I think its a major ego and self respect blow male or female for the betrayed spouse the difference between the two is how society views them a BW is expected to forgive there WH and maintain the family unit and stand by there man at the cost of there dignity, integrity and self respect.Society view of BH is the complete opposite men are expected to leave their WW support their children and start afresh it can be inferred then that society and cultural norms plays a major factor in a BS thinking for it this society they are judge.


----------



## love=pain

IMO both paths divorce and reconciliation show the strength and weakness of the BS.


For a BS that stays it show their strength of heart the ability to forgive and the belief that things will get better

For those that D the strength to walk into the unknown and change your life, the confidence to know it will be better without the WS for you and your kids if you have any.

The strengths of one tend to be the weakness of the other

No path is right for everyone so no choice is the wrong choice, if it doesn't work for you then fine I understand I feel differently then you.
If circumstances were different then I may have chosen the other path, I don't know I only know what was in front of me when I made my decision.

Arguing with anyone over who is right or wrong is ridiculous infidelity is not a one size fits all kind of thing.


----------



## Squeakr

xakulax said:


> I think its a major ego and self respect blow male or female for the betrayed spouse the difference between the two is how society views them a BW is expected to forgive there WH and maintain the family unit and stand by there man at the cost of there dignity, integrity and self respect.Society view of BH is the complete opposite men are expected to leave their WW support their children and start afresh it can be inferred then that society and cultural norms plays a major factor in a BS thinking for it this society they are judge.


I agree that used to be the norm, as is still for the most part true. But with more single mothers, women in the work force, and higher power executives that are women, the societal norms have definitely changed. Women aren't viewed as much as easy and sleazy when they are more sexually liberated. With the change in society and the norms that were once forced through religion being less prominent, infidelity is not viewed as negatively as thy once were and much more accepted (if not revered i. Some senses). These are not Hawthorne days anymore that is for sure. The expectations of whom should and shouldn't stay and accept infidelity have greatly changed as well. I don't think it is great progress but that is me I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

love=pain said:


> Arguing with anyone over who is right or wrong is ridiculous infidelity is not a one size fits all kind of thing.


I don't know for my WW (and lots of others on here), she seemed to be a one size fits all option. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xakulax

Squeakr said:


> I agree that used to be the norm, as is still for the most part true. But with more single mothers, women in the work force, and higher power executives that are women, the societal norms have definitely changed. Women aren't viewed as much as easy and sleazy when they are more sexually liberated. With the change in society and the norms that were once forced through religion being less prominent,* infidelity is not viewed as negatively as thy once were and much more accepted *(if not revered i. Some senses). These are not Hawthorne days anymore that is for sure. The expectations of whom should and shouldn't stay and accept infidelity have greatly changed as well. I don't think it is great progress but that is me I guess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




This is a bet off topic but has any ever ask themselves why is it infidelity in are Society accepted more then swinging which is an open and transparent way of recreational sex without the deceit and lies.



PS:Great post Squeakr


----------



## Squeakr

xakulax said:


> This is a bet off topic but has any ever ask themselves why is it infidelity in are Society accepted more then swinging which is an open and transparent way of recreational sex without the deceit and lies.
> 
> 
> 
> PS:Great post Squeakr


Thanks. 

As to your question, I think ( and this is my opinion) that swinging is not as accepted as it is nothing more than sex and gratification of the people just as an open marriage isn't accepted. People still seem to have the ideal that relationships are strictly monogomous. With infidelity, it still is not accepted but it is not viewed as negatively as it once was by many (wrong again in my opinion), but with infidelity, when it is discovered someone always sees the person as being punished in some sort, if not monetarily then through public humiliation and loss of access to their children. People always come out with justifications and excuses regarding the infidelity so a public shame also exists. With the others there are no shame as all parties are aware and in agreement, so it is thought by many as anti-family and twisted and the ideal is why even get married if you don't want to be committed to one individual.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sidney2718

xakulax said:


> By definition a deal breaker is the catch that a particular individual cannot overlook and ultimately outweighs any redeeming quality the individual may possess no matter how complex the situation the dealbreaker is literally just that a point in which one cannot overlook the actions of the other


I don't agree with this. A dealbreaker, as we use the term, is a boundary set out early in the marriage. Breaking the boundary then triggers a reaction.

However, in the meantime 20 years of good marriage might have elapsed. The WS might have proven to be an excellent partner, good parent, and to have helped the BS weather many major problems.

Why does a 20 year old boundary have to automatically kick in? Isn't one allowed to at least think about reconciliation?


----------



## sidney2718

nuclearnightmare said:


> The fairest answer is because women care more about transcendence - maintaining the love and support of communities and families. Men care more about independence - maintaining the dignity and integrity of the individual.
> 
> IMO many of the tough trials of marriage should just be endured to keep the marriage and family intact. Abuse crosses the line however -- the dignity if the abused spouse is too compromised. IMO same goes for infidelity, in most cases. So on that I think women have something to learn from men (often in life it is the other way around). Leave the cheating spouse.


According to the data just posted by Xakulax, there is about one chance in three of the couple dealing with infidelity staying together long term. Given the divorce rate for marriage in general those are not bad odds.

Perhaps women are right and a more nuanced reaction after more thought is called for?


----------



## Squeakr

sidney2718 said:


> I don't agree with this. A dealbreaker, as we use the term, is a boundary set out early in the marriage. Breaking the boundary then triggers a reaction.
> 
> However, in the meantime 20 years of good marriage might have elapsed. The WS might have proven to be an excellent partner, good parent, and to have helped the BS weather many major problems.
> 
> Why does a 20 year old boundary have to automatically kick in? Isn't one allowed to at least think about reconciliation?


That's up to the person wrong'd to decide, hence the deal breaker. Reconciliation like trust when broken is not something that is automatically granted or given. 

Should we apply the same logic to other actions? We should excuse the first DUI as the person has been driving for 20 years and safely without an infraction so we should just issue a warning in this situation? How about stealing, never stole before so give the first one a pass? Same things with violence, it is the first time they ever struck their spouse so just warn them to not do it again?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## larry.gray

sidney2718 said:


> According to the data just posted by Xakulax, there is about one chance in three of the couple dealing with infidelity staying together long term. Given the divorce rate for marriage in general those are not bad odds.
> 
> Perhaps women are right and a more nuanced reaction after more thought is called for?


Those are not independent stats. Many divorces revolve around infidelity.


----------



## sidney2718

Squeakr said:


> That's up to the person wrong'd to decide, hence the deal breaker. Reconciliation like trust when broken is not something that is automatically granted or given.


I agree, but that's not my point. There are many things that break trust, from not taking care of promised chores to hidden drinking problems that don't come out for years.

What I was talking about were unbreakable boundaries set years before. Enforcing them automatically means ignoring the (possibly) many years of marriage that have taken place since the boundaries are set. I'm not saying that those boundaries should be ignored. I AM saying that they need to be seriously thought about when infidelity happens.



> Should we apply the same logic to other actions? We should excuse the first DUI as the person has been driving for 20 years and safely without an infraction so we should just issue a warning in this situation? How about stealing, never stole before so give the first one a pass? Same things with violence, it is the first time they ever struck their spouse so just warn them to not do it again?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But, but, we do just that in many cases. First offenses are often basically forgiven or treated more lightly than repeat offensives. Some offenses that are treated as misdemeanors such as driving without a license is one that particularly grates on me. But there it is.


----------



## xakulax

*Re: Re: Things WS did with AP*



sidney2718 said:


> According to the data just posted by Xakulax, there is about one chance in three of the couple dealing with infidelity staying together long term. Given the divorce rate for marriage in general those are not bad odds.
> 
> Perhaps women are right and a more nuanced reaction after more thought is called for?



Or maybe men are just unwilling to stay with someone who made them an option while there WS were a priority to them no one likes being supplant.


----------



## Squeakr

sidney2718 said:


> I agree, but that's not my point. There are many things that break trust, from not taking care of promised chores to hidden drinking problems that don't come out for years.
> 
> What I was talking about were unbreakable boundaries set years before. Enforcing them automatically means ignoring the (possibly) many years of marriage that have taken place since the boundaries are set. I'm not saying that those boundaries should be ignored. I AM saying that they need to be seriously thought about when infidelity happens.


Doesn't matter trust breaking through a deal breaker is just that. If your deal breaker was them being an alcoholic then I would recommend the same thing about kicking them to the curb if it is a deal breaker for you. Doesn't matter if it is infidelity, violence, alcoholism, or just plane immaturity and stupidity, it it is your deal breaker it is the line you have drawn and no matter how many years shouldn't matter (as the way I see it you are betrayed even worse when many faithful years existed prior. 



> But, but, we do just that in many cases. First offenses are often basically forgiven or treated more lightly than repeat offensives. Some offenses that are treated as misdemeanors such as driving without a license is one that particularly grates on me. But there it is.


Yes, we give them more lenient sentences but we don't let them off, especially if it is a deal breaker, such as grand theft, weapons charges, or homicide, the first one isn't less enforced and just forgiven from years of good behavior. Should we then give veterans and retired social servants special laws and punishment guidelines due to their years of dedicated service as well?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badkarma2013

sidney2718 said:


> I agree, but that's not my point. There are many things that break trust, from not taking care of promised chores to hidden drinking problems that don't come out for years.
> 
> What I was talking about were unbreakable boundaries set years before. Enforcing them automatically means ignoring the (possibly) many years of marriage that have taken place since the boundaries are set. I'm not saying that those boundaries should be ignored. I AM saying that they need to be seriously thought about when infidelity happens.
> 
> 
> 
> But, but, we do just that in many cases. First offenses are often basically forgiven or treated more lightly than repeat offensives. Some offenses that are treated as misdemeanors such as driving without a license is one that particularly grates on me. But there it is.



Infidelity in my case was the COMPLETE and UTTER DESTRUCTION o f two families .....

MY EXWW ( from months of investigating and pics i saw had sex at least 50 times with OM in a 18 month period.....EVERY ONE on those offences was a DEAth sentence to 2 families...and 2 marriages

so to think she is going to have her little FUC%FEST and 
come home and me accept it.....She did not know me or did not care..

As I have said ...you can make me all the SH*t sandwiches you want to...it does not mean im going to EAT them...

Do not confuse Forgiveness with Reconciliation..For They Are NOT the Same Thing.


----------



## ThePheonix

badkarma2013 said:


> Do not confuse Forgiveness with Reconciliation..For They Are NOT the Same Thing.


Why reconcile? Forgive and get rid of seem a better option.


----------



## manticore

ThePheonix said:


> You just verified what I'm saying Dawg. In the example I used, the gal doesn't care and is not going to do what the husband wants no matter if he threatens the relationship. Most likely she would welcome him saying adios. At this point she's in it only for the security and to get her ducks in a row. Her romantic interest is dead.


Nop, not at all, I am not supporting your theory at all, let me put in your words your theory:



ThePheonix said:


> Of course they can feel an attraction to another man. *But I'll stick by what I said that if they have a high romantic interest in the husbands, they won't act on it.* If they did, all married women would have boyfriends.


I gave you alot of examples of how this is a lie and you just ignore all of them, so I will put them again, read the threads and refute my theory not just answer *in what you think or you believe*:

threads of women with high romantic interest in their husbands and a sexual active life (with their husbands) that cheated but for the high romantic interest in their husband confesed inmediatly to try to save their relationship:

- un_amor_perdido
- Tears

women with high romantic interest in their husbands that never pretended to leave them , had a good sexual life with them and just cake ate for opportunity (a flaw pretty common in men):

- Forevergrateful
- Regret214
- ChangingMe
- Mrs_Mathias

Once the affair revealed they didn't think 2 seconds with who their loyalty was, they revealed all the information needed to the BHs to utterly destroy the OMs (with exception of Mrs_Mathias that lied about the number of encounters).

*If you get these 6 users to accept that their story is a lie and they didn't love their husbands as they said then I will accept your theory (the problem is that many of her husbands post here and have corroborated all)*

let me say that I know of other cases just like these (like sophie or Oldsmitted's wife) but in other forums like love shack and MB.

there are other subjects you metioned that i will address later


----------



## badkarma2013

manticore said:


> Nop, not at all, I am not supporting your theory at all, let me put in your words your theory:
> 
> 
> 
> I gave you alot of examples of how this is a lie and you just ignore all of them, so I will put them again, read the threads and refute my theory not just answer *in what you think or you believe*:
> 
> threads of women with high romantic interest in their husbands and a sexual active life (with their husbands) that cheated but for the high romantic interest in their husband confesed inmediatly to try to save their relationship:
> 
> - un_amor_perdido
> - Tears
> 
> women with high romantic interest in their husbands that never pretended to leave them , had a good sexual life with them and just cake ate for opportunity (a flaw pretty common in men):
> 
> - Forevergrateful
> - Regret214
> - ChangingMe
> - Mrs_Mathias
> 
> Once the affair revealed they didn't think 2 seconds with who their loyalty was, they revealed all the information needed to the BHs to utterly destroy the OMs (with exception of Mrs_Mathias that lied about the number of encounters).
> 
> *If you get these 6 users to accept that their story is a lie and they didn't love their husbands as they said then I will accept your theory (the problem is that many of her husbands post here and have corroborated all)*
> 
> let me say that I know of other cases just like these (like sophie or Oldsmitted's wife) but in other forums like love shack and MB.
> 
> there are other subjects you metioned that i will address later




I agree....As I have posted ...I personally talked to and e-mailed approx-15 WWs as well as talked to my EXWW before D...MOst said they were HAPPY in their marriages...BUT NOT one gave me and VALID reason for cheating...Justifications ,yes...but none had a solid reason...

Manticore...I TRULY think thats what affects most MEN here so strongly and hits us so hard...WE were doing everything we think is right ...had a good sex life..They wanted for nothing and this happens to us ...and THEY CANNOT OR WILL SAY WHY...REALLY WHY and we are left lost...


If im wrong pls comment ....

The worst is we will never know...

The worst is that most said they felt horriably guilty and felt pain for what their BHs were going through ...BUT NOT SO MUCH FOR THE A...only the fallout...


----------



## sidney2718

badkarma2013 said:


> I agree....As I have posted ...I personally talked to and e-mailed approx-15 WWs as well as talked to my EXWW before D...MOst said they were HAPPY in their marriages...BUT NOT one gave me and VALID reason for cheating...Justifications ,yes...but none had a solid reason...


I agree with you. My only quibble would be that what you call justifications may have seemed like a valid reason to them.

I've found that "valid reason" for many women means one thing while for many men it means something else.

Not that this changes anything. All it does is point up something we already know, which is that communication between men and women is often bad.



> Manticore...I TRULY think thats what affects most MEN here so strongly and hits us so hard...WE were doing everything we think is right ...had a good sex life..They wanted for nothing and this happens to us ...and THEY CANNOT OR WILL SAY WHY...REALLY WHY and we are left lost..


I agree again, but again I will note that a good sex life may not be the primary reason a woman marries. Their goals and men's goals may in the end be the same, but the priorities often differ greatly.



> If im wrong pls comment ....
> 
> The worst is we will never know...
> 
> The worst is that most said they felt horriably guilty and felt pain for what their BHs were going through ...BUT NOT SO MUCH FOR THE A...only the fallout...


My feeling is that the affair itself is of lesser importance to the wife, while their husband's pain is much more important.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

sidney2718 said:


> According to the data just posted by Xakulax, there is about one chance in three of the couple dealing with infidelity staying together long term. Given the divorce rate for marriage in general those are not bad odds.
> 
> Perhaps women are right and a more nuanced reaction after more thought is called for?


I could see that as a valid POV as well, although I lean in the opposite direction per my post. But I am wondering how many of the BW that do stick with their WH end up regreting it later on.


----------



## xakulax

nuclearnightmare said:


> I could see that as a valid POV as well, although I lean in the opposite direction per my post. But *I am wondering how many of the BW that do stick with their WH end up regreting it later on*.




I also wonder how many BS who reconcile regret it later or how many will even admit it themselves.


----------



## sidney2718

xakulax said:


> I also wonder how many BS who reconcile regret it later or how many will even admit it themselves.


I believe that the data you posted said "long term successful", whatever "long term" means.


----------



## xakulax

sidney2718 said:


> I believe that the data you posted said "long term successful", whatever "long term" means.




31% is still awfully low in my opinion but on a more depressing note 

Percentage of marriages that end in divorce in America: 53% 

Percentage of marriages where one or both spouses admit to infidelity, either physical or emotional: 41%


Clearly there must be something fundamentally wrong with are society


----------



## sidney2718

xakulax said:


> 31% is still awfully low in my opinion but on a more depressing note
> 
> Percentage of marriages that end in divorce in America: 53%
> 
> Percentage of marriages where one or both spouses admit to infidelity, either physical or emotional: 41%
> 
> 
> Clearly there must be something fundamentally wrong with are society


Quite possibly. It seems to be based on things that are not true, such as universal human monogamy.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

xakulax said:


> Clearly there must be something fundamentally wrong with are society


Yeah, the countries statistical research.


----------



## phoenix_

badkarma2013 said:


> Lol Gus....I had outed him to his BW and threatened a multi million dollar lawsuit against their company, and got them both Fired....His wife DESTROYED him in the upcoming divorce...he lost everything as well as I.
> 
> That was his revenge for me napalming his life...so he napalmed mine.


I hope you still kicked his face in after that


----------



## xakulax

sidney2718 said:


> Quite possibly. It seems to be based on things that are not true, such as universal human monogamy.




I agree I don't believe everyone is built for monogamy I believe social cultural norms try to force us to believer this that human are monogamous by nature but the truth is we are not; some can adapt to that life style and other cant


----------



## lordmayhem

xakulax said:


> I agree I don't believe everyone is built for monogamy I believe social cultural norms try to force us to believer this that human are monogamous by nature but the truth is we are not; some can adapt to that life style and other cant


Monogamy based on marriage is a choice. *That's what separates us from animals*. As human beings, we have conscious will, we can think. We are the only species that can consciously control our number of offspring. 

When you marry, you consciously make the decision to be monogamous, that's what vows are for. However, some people can't repress their animal instincts.


----------



## Dyokemm

"I also wonder how many BS who reconcile regret it later or how many will even admit it themselves."

Yeah.

My maternal grandparents remained married for the rest of my grandmother's life...almost 50 years after her A's (which included a love child my grandfather then raised).

Growing up, I could never understand why my grandfather always seemed to be angry with her...the slightest thing set him off. 

I just always chalked it up to him having a hot temper.

Then a couple years ago, the whole mess got revealed to the entire family because of a nasty spat between my mom and aunt (lovechild) over taking care of my grandfather after my grandmother passed.

It was shocking and eye-opening for me...suddenly I understood a lot of the things that had always puzzled me as a kid.

I think my grandfather should have divorced rather than have agreed to live that life for nearly half a century.

But technically you could call them a long term 'reconciled' M based on the fact they never divorced.


----------



## Squeakr

Dyokemm said:


> But technically you could call them a long term 'reconciled' M based on the fact they never divorced.


Or you could just call them a long term marriage or LTR, as they might never have actually reconciled and like lots from that period just lived as man and wife, but not really a couple, which is what reconciliation is about. Lots of BS stick around for the kids and never really live again as married couple and we wouldn't say they reconciled.


----------



## jorgegene

xakulax said:


> I agree I don't believe everyone is built for monogamy I believe social cultural norms try to force us to believer this that human are monogamous by nature but the truth is we are not; some can adapt to that life style and other cant


I agree with your proposition that some people are not built for monogamy

A lot of people who shouldn't get married do.

main reason not to get married:

1. too immature, self centered, don't really even know what love is.

Lot's of these people get married when they should not have and there are a lot of them out there.

I held off getting married till late in life. I think (hope) I did the right thing.


----------



## Squeakr

jorgegene said:


> I agree with your proposition that some people are not built for monogamy
> 
> A lot of people who shouldn't get married do.
> 
> main reason not to get married:
> 
> 1. too immature, self centered, *don't really even know wha*t love is.


Does anyone ever really know what love is? WE all seem to have this notion, but no one can really describe it until they have been in it, and then even when that feeling repeats, how do we not know it is just infatuation. Lots of WS will say it was true love they harbored for the AP, but in the end it turns out to mainly be infatuation.


----------



## treyvion

Squeakr said:


> Does anyone ever really know what love is? WE all seem to have this notion, but no one can really describe it until they have been in it, and then even when that feeling repeats, how do we not know it is just infatuation. Lots of WS will say it was true love they harbored for the AP, but in the end it turns out to mainly be infatuation.


Back in the days when man only lived to be 30 or 40 years old, "love" probably was an intense passion and infatuation after conjucation with someone they admired.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Back in the days when man only lived to be 30 or 40 years old, "love" probably was an intense passion and infatuation after conjucation with someone they admired."

It is true that average life span was only in the 40's as late as 1900.

But that is a very misleading statistic if you don't understand what it means.

Most adults lived into their 60's at least.

The reason the average was so low was because of MASSIVE infant mortality rate when compared to today as well as things like much higher death in childbirth for women (in fact, until relatively recently in history, women had a much lower average life span than men...but modern medicine has virtually eliminated childbirth deaths of mothers so that now women live on average 4 to 5 years longer than men).

So, the concept of 'love' as opposed to simple infatuation would have the same meaning in the past as it does today.

In fact, the writings and philosophy of the era prove that they were also aware of the great difference between the two.

I know we have a tendency today to think that infidelity (and other socially disapproved actions) is much worse today than in the past, but the historical record does not bear this out.

Today we are just more AWARE of these acts thanks to modern communication techniques, media, etc.

It was much less likely to be discovered (and therefore acknowledged/discussed) in the past.

A perfect example is the website we are currently on...in the past the vast majority of BSs on this site would have never have been able to catch their spouses cheating at all, and if they did manage to catch them, we other posters would be unlikely to ever hear about the adultery.

And since people do not walk around wearing signs saying, "I got cheated on", the fact is we would all be walking around blissfully unaware of how common infidelity actually is with humans.


----------



## wranglerman

Zanne said:


> Badkarma2013, I will share my story with you, but it doesn’t mean it is typical. I think there are many reasons for infidelity and so the answer to your question will vary.
> 
> In my marriage, we were high school sweethearts who married young. He was my first, but it didn’t take long for me to realize that I enjoyed sex. Being young, we did it all the time, every chance we could. And we did experiment.
> 
> Then the kids came along… five kiddos in nine years. Like so many stories here on TAM, my husband was a frustrated and neglected spouse in the bedroom. I nursed all five babies and we always had at least one child in bed with us. That’s when he started sleeping on the couch more often than not.
> 
> Fast forward to the kids growing up and leaving home and now our marriage is in shambles. In my eyes, his treatment of me over the years and his attitude about sex (I felt used) pushed me away. Because of stories I have read here, I can see he probably thought differently. Also, by no means was I the perfect wife. Funny thing is, we both still had needs, and we just took care of them ourselves.
> 
> The fact remains, somewhere in our 30 years together (25 years married), I lost all attraction for him and respect as well. There is a certain amount of vulnerability and trust needed in a relationship to try new things; in the bedroom, as well as in the way we treat each other. Trust was utterly gone in our relationship – both sides.
> 
> Leading up to the time before my affair, the amount of sex with my husband picked up quite a bit. He was quite pleased with the change. But I had to be drunk before I could do anything. Afterward, I couldn’t stand how I felt about myself because he wasn’t treating me any different outside of the bedroom; we were just using each other for sex.
> 
> I met my OM approximately a year ago, here on TAM. By that time, sex with my husband had been on hold for eight months after I told him that I didn't want to be married anymore. Our marriage was definitely in crisis. Oh.... he was making an effort in some ways, but still not understanding my needs. But the OM and I talked every day, all day, texts and emails and phone calls. And guess what? He wasn’t happy at home either. So can you imagine what we talked about?
> 
> By the time we met in person for the first time, we were more than ready to take it physical. We had already been sexting a month into the relationship. No, we didn’t do anything more than my husband and I….at least in the beginning. But the longer we knew each other and talked about our desires, yes, we ended up doing all sorts of things that I have never done with my husband.
> 
> So, to answer your question, Badkarma2013, I did all these things with the OM because I trusted him and I loved him. I felt like we were in a true relationship (except for our pesky spouses). The biggest problem we ever faced was the reality of our relationship. Otherwise, compatibility wise, we were great together. Of course, if I was uncomfortable doing something, I would not do it. But we talked about everything first. Heck, I even offered to do things – some things that my husband always wanted me to do, but for some reason I couldn’t give to him – I did those things for the OM.
> 
> In my opinion, there is an emotional need that needs to be met; however, the desire to perform these physical acts needs to be there as well. I was not drunk or drugged when I was with the OM. I remember reflecting how refreshing it was to be in a “normal” relationship with someone where we could express our love for each other without the heavy weight of years of resentments and mistrust marring the experience.
> 
> My husband knows about most of the things I have done, but not the kinky stuff. He stopped asking and he also wasn't aware that I continued to see the OM for several more months. Ironically, he was most upset that I kissed the OM during intercourse, something we stopped doing years ago. Again, the emotional connection just wasn't there.
> 
> This is my story, Badkarma2013. In no way does it mean any part of it was the same for your WW. But perhaps there are patterns and similarities for any love affair. I am genuinely sorry for the pain you went through and for the circumstances leading up to your divorce. I hope you find the answers you are seeking.


Breath taking honesty, and unfortunately a very common theme.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## manticore

sure Zanne, I want to see how your OM reacts if you expose him to his wife as you said you would do, and then you will see how your special connection dissapears in 2 seconds, later he will tell you that all was about sex and finally you will receive a NC letter, if I remember correctly OM's kids are grown up and even graduating from high shool, so they are no kids that need their daddy, so why he have not left his wife for you? (you don't actually need to explain me I am sure that he came with a sh*t of a story).

then after that happens you will prove me right as I have been saying, the only thing you need is to push when the relationship is fresh and women are in the dopamine stage (whatever affair or normal relationship) if a man set his kinkys acts from the beginning of the realtionship as a must to continue such relationship, most women will concede the acts, and that include affair relationships.

As example I will put myself again, in my actual relationship (the only stable and long term realtionship I have had) I never pushed for those acts (as Anal, facial, determined toys) unlike with other women, I am sure that if I come now after 3 years of relationship agressively pushing for those acts as I did with the other women before, I will crash with a monumental wall, the stage of the relationship where I could came with "what was needed to continue the realtionship" already passed, for those women in my past I set as requisite the kinky sex to continue our relationship, for my GF I never did such thing, If I come now with "you let me have kinky porn sex with you or I end the relationship" she will not see it as a the other women did (as something that I need to have a relationship), she will interprete in as abuse or extortion, and I can easily see how can drive her to resent me and feeling used (as it obvious at this point that I can have a relationship without doing those acts).

(just to clarify, we have a "kinky" healthy sexual life, is just that not to the point of acting as porn stars)


----------



## xakulax

Zanne said:


> Badkarma2013, I will share my story with you, but it doesn’t mean it is typical. I think there are many reasons for infidelity and so the answer to your question will vary.
> 
> In my marriage, we were high school sweethearts who married young. He was my first, but it didn’t take long for me to realize that I enjoyed sex. Being young, we did it all the time, every chance we could. And we did experiment.
> 
> Then the kids came along… five kiddos in nine years. Like so many stories here on TAM, my husband was a frustrated and neglected spouse in the bedroom. I nursed all five babies and we always had at least one child in bed with us. That’s when he started sleeping on the couch more often than not.
> 
> Fast forward to the kids growing up and leaving home and now our marriage is in shambles. In my eyes, his treatment of me over the years and his attitude about sex (I felt used) pushed me away. Because of stories I have read here, I can see he probably thought differently. Also, by no means was I the perfect wife. Funny thing is, we both still had needs, and we just took care of them ourselves.
> 
> The fact remains, somewhere in our 30 years together (25 years married), I lost all attraction for him and respect as well. There is a certain amount of vulnerability and trust needed in a relationship to try new things; in the bedroom, as well as in the way we treat each other. Trust was utterly gone in our relationship – both sides.
> 
> Leading up to the time before my affair, the amount of sex with my husband picked up quite a bit. He was quite pleased with the change. But I had to be drunk before I could do anything. Afterward, I couldn’t stand how I felt about myself because he wasn’t treating me any different outside of the bedroom; we were just using each other for sex.
> 
> *I met my OM approximately a year ago, here on TAM*. By that time, sex with my husband had been on hold for eight months after I told him that I didn't want to be married anymore. Our marriage was definitely in crisis. Oh.... he was making an effort in some ways, but still not understanding my needs. But the OM and I talked every day, all day, texts and emails and phone calls. And guess what? He wasn’t happy at home either. So can you imagine what we talked about?
> 
> By the time we met in person for the first time, we were more than ready to take it physical. We had already been sexting a month into the relationship. No, we didn’t do anything more than my husband and I….at least in the beginning. But the longer we knew each other and talked about our desires, yes, we ended up doing all sorts of things that I have never done with my husband.
> 
> So, to answer your question, Badkarma2013, I did all these things with the OM because I trusted him and I loved him. I felt like we were in a true relationship (except for our pesky spouses). The biggest problem we ever faced was the reality of our relationship. Otherwise, compatibility wise, we were great together. Of course, if I was uncomfortable doing something, I would not do it. But we talked about everything first. Heck, I even offered to do things – some things that my husband always wanted me to do, but for some reason I couldn’t give to him – I did those things for the OM.
> 
> In my opinion, there is an emotional need that needs to be met; however, the desire to perform these physical acts needs to be there as well. I was not drunk or drugged when I was with the OM. I remember reflecting how refreshing it was to be in a “normal” relationship with someone where we could express our love for each other without the heavy weight of years of resentments and mistrust marring the experience.
> 
> My husband knows about most of the things I have done, but not the kinky stuff. He stopped asking and he also wasn't aware that I continued to see the OM for several more months. Ironically, he was most upset that I kissed the OM during intercourse, something we stopped doing years ago. Again, the emotional connection just wasn't there.
> 
> This is my story, Badkarma2013. In no way does it mean any part of it was the same for your WW. But perhaps there are patterns and similarities for any love affair. I am genuinely sorry for the pain you went through and for the circumstances leading up to your divorce. I hope you find the answers you are seeking.





I thought the goal here was to prevent affairs :slap:



Thanks you for sharing story with us zanne


----------



## TheFlood117

xakulax said:


> I thought the goal here was to prevent affairs :slap:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks you for sharing story with us zanne


Nah, having your penis or vajayjay feel good trumps everything and anything for cheaters. Anything. And everything. Hence, my opinion on why men and women cheat. 


Back on topic, my ex WW did not do anything with OM she hadn't done with me, so she say's... I mean, how can I really know right?? I mean she sucked his little pecker, so... Yeah. 


Obviously, I divorced her immediately. For a man, that sort of physical imitate betrayal just can't be overcame. 

Just my opinion tho.


----------



## tom67

TheFlood117 said:


> Nah, having your penis or vajayjay feel good trumps everything and anything for cheaters. Anything. And everything. Hence, my opinion on why men and women cheat.
> 
> 
> Back on topic, my ex WW did not do anything with OM she hadn't done with me, so she say's... I mean, how can I really know right?? I mean she sucked his little pecker, so... Yeah.
> 
> 
> Obviously, I divorced her immediately. For a man, that sort of physical imitate betrayal just can't be overcame.
> 
> Just my opinion tho.


And Flood if I remember the way you found out she was playing with your kid outside and you saw that picture on her phone WTF.


----------



## TheFlood117

tom67 said:


> And Flood if I remember the way you found out she was playing with your kid outside and you saw that picture on her phone WTF.


Actually it was late at night, a couple day's before I posted my original thread and stuff. Terrible. I don't really remember it, but I had a pint class with some beer in it, and I squeezed the glass so hard that it broke, I had to lie to her about my hand cause I cut it up pretty bad. Terrible. I was so angry, I thought about doing things to her and the OM. Glad I didn't. Wow. Thank God for my amazing support from my crew, mom (initially she was the only one I told) and the people here at TAM. Angry, quite isn't the right word. The last time I was that angry was when I was bouncing at a club, and one of the idiot "tough guys" got grabby with a waitress I was seeing, and kinda pushed her when she told him to lay the fvck off. I put that dude almost into a coma. Big guy to, bout 6'3"ish 250, used to play NFL football, thought he was tough. He wasn't. 

That was the last time I felt the rage I did. I'm so glad I didn't do anything. So glad. Finding out and seeing this type of thing is terrible. That's why I really, really advise guys here to maybe think before you really ask for all the little nasty details. And maybe have a very, very close friend or attorney listen to VARs. It's pretty rough stuff. 

I'm much better now. I'm not really that angry anymore. I really wasn't after I got the divorce rolling and got her out. 

The anger is something that I really, really struggled with. I think for men, it's just something that's right on the edge you can't control. I can't explain it, but it's almost encompassing and so raw.


----------



## the guy

xakulax said:


> I thought the goal here was to prevent affairs :slap:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks you for sharing story with us zanne


hOW PHUCKED UP IS THAT


----------



## aug

Zanne said:


> *I met my OM approximately a year ago, here on TAM.* By that time, sex with my husband had been on hold for eight months after I told him that I didn't want to be married anymore. Our marriage was definitely in crisis. Oh.... he was making an effort in some ways, but still not understanding my needs. But the OM and I talked every day, all day, texts and emails and phone calls. And guess what? He wasn’t happy at home either. So can you imagine what we talked about?
> 
> By the time we met in person for the first time, we were more than ready to take it physical. We had already been sexting a month into the relationship. No, we didn’t do anything more than my husband and I….at least in the beginning. But the longer we knew each other and talked about our desires, yes, we ended up doing all sorts of things that I have never done with my husband.



So, who's the OM of Zanne?

Shine the light under the rock.


----------



## wranglerman

xakulax said:


> I thought the goal here was to prevent affairs :slap:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks you for sharing story with us zanne


That is the goal of this section, the sexual help section is a minefield of opportunity if you were/are predatory. In there you will find a ton of Ws biatching about how hubby won't do X,Y&Z, how she needs attention from him in the most intimate ways, I suppose a few carefully worded PMs that are suggestive but not OTT couuld open a few doors or legs for that matter 

Social spot is another good one where you could glean some action if you so desired.

Never mind.

I do agree with TF as far as anger goes.


----------



## murphy5

Zanne said:


> Badkarma2013, I will share my story with you, but it doesn’t mean it is typical. I think there are many reasons for infidelity and so the answer to your question will vary.
> 
> In my marriage, we were high school sweethearts who married young. He was my first, but it didn’t take long for me to realize that I enjoyed sex. Being young, we did it all the time, every chance we could. And we did experiment.
> 
> Then the kids came along… five kiddos in nine years. Like so many stories here on TAM, my husband was a frustrated and neglected spouse in the bedroom. I nursed all five babies and we always had at least one child in bed with us. That’s when he started sleeping on the couch more often than not.
> 
> Fast forward to the kids growing up and leaving home and now our marriage is in shambles. In my eyes, his treatment of me over the years and his attitude about sex (I felt used) pushed me away. Because of stories I have read here, I can see he probably thought differently. Also, by no means was I the perfect wife. Funny thing is, we both still had needs, and we just took care of them ourselves.
> 
> The fact remains, somewhere in our 30 years together (25 years married), I lost all attraction for him and respect as well. There is a certain amount of vulnerability and trust needed in a relationship to try new things; in the bedroom, as well as in the way we treat each other. Trust was utterly gone in our relationship – both sides.
> 
> Leading up to the time before my affair, the amount of sex with my husband picked up quite a bit. He was quite pleased with the change. But I had to be drunk before I could do anything. Afterward, I couldn’t stand how I felt about myself because he wasn’t treating me any different outside of the bedroom; we were just using each other for sex.
> 
> I met my OM approximately a year ago, here on TAM. By that time, sex with my husband had been on hold for eight months after I told him that I didn't want to be married anymore. Our marriage was definitely in crisis. Oh.... he was making an effort in some ways, but still not understanding my needs. But the OM and I talked every day, all day, texts and emails and phone calls. And guess what? He wasn’t happy at home either. So can you imagine what we talked about?
> 
> By the time we met in person for the first time, we were more than ready to take it physical. We had already been sexting a month into the relationship. No, we didn’t do anything more than my husband and I….at least in the beginning. But the longer we knew each other and talked about our desires, yes, we ended up doing all sorts of things that I have never done with my husband.
> 
> So, to answer your question, Badkarma2013,* I did all these things with the OM because I trusted him and I loved him. I felt like we were in a true relationship *(except for our pesky spouses). The biggest problem we ever faced was the reality of our relationship. Otherwise, compatibility wise, we were great together. Of course, if I was uncomfortable doing something, I would not do it. But we talked about everything first. Heck, I even offered to do things – some things that my husband always wanted me to do, but for some reason I couldn’t give to him – I did those things for the OM.
> 
> In my opinion, there is an emotional need that needs to be met; however, the desire to perform these physical acts needs to be there as well. I was not drunk or drugged when I was with the OM. I remember reflecting how refreshing it was to be in a “normal” relationship with someone where we could express our love for each other without the heavy weight of years of resentments and mistrust marring the experience.
> 
> My husband knows about most of the things I have done, but not the kinky stuff. He stopped asking and he also wasn't aware that I continued to see the OM for several more months. Ironically, he was most upset that I kissed the OM during intercourse, something we stopped doing years ago. Again, the emotional connection just wasn't there.
> 
> This is my story, Badkarma2013. In no way does it mean any part of it was the same for your WW. But perhaps there are patterns and similarities for any love affair. I am genuinely sorry for the pain you went through and for the circumstances leading up to your divorce. I hope you find the answers you are seeking.


I would assume this to be a fairly typical reason it happens. One spouse is not getting "attention" at home, finds it outside the marriage, and that opens up a floodgate of pent up emotions and fantasies. And "attention" can take many forms, like not kissing enough, not cuddling enough (a popular current topic), and on and on.

Thanks for sharing your story Zane, it was eye opening.
And a warning to us married people, if you hear a "small" complaint...you should really check it out, see what the complaint really means, and if there is some small thing you can change in YOUR behavior to make things smooth again


----------



## Squeakr

murphy5 said:


> I would assume this to be a fairly typical reason it happens. One spouse is not getting "attention" at home, finds it outside the marriage, and that opens up a floodgate of pent up emotions and fantasies. And "attention" can take many forms, like not kissing enough, not cuddling enough (a popular current topic), and on and on.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your story Zane, it was eye opening.
> And a warning to us married people, if you hear a "small" complaint...you should really check it out, see what the complaint really means, and if there is some small thing you can change in YOUR behavior to make things smooth again


But your assumptions seem to predicate upon the BS truly being the responsible party, as per the WS. Usually at the point that one is "complaining" like this they have already checked out of the marriage. 

I see the problem as the WS feels that they are the only one wronged and that their behaviors are not contributory to the marriage demise. They feel the need to complain to get their needs met, when they may have been ignoring the needs of the other for extended times. Let's face it that the male usually doesn't complain much when he feels that the female is being taxed as much as he is and that complaining will do no good and instead just suck it up to get through this period. Women however are generally told they shouldn't settle so they will vocalize it and get the support of their friends that tell them they deserve better. At this point, without professional intervention, the issues, no matter how great or small, will not get resolved.

I have seen this within my own marriage where my "complaints" were pushed to the back and considered only my issues. However when she had "complaints" then they were our issues and she could point to everything I had done wrong to justify. She still fails to see that from the day after our marriage she was still having deep relationships with her exes and giving them more attention, respect, and honor than giving me (I only learned this since d-day, as that is when I found the hidden phone records and emails bashing me and everything within our union). 

When I point this out, although I admit I have issues. However, I don't believe they led to or contributed to the demise of the marriage, as we never really had a marriage from day one just a legal union. She becomes defensive and tries to still blame me. I feel that she was never really committed to the marriage (as she has said to others behind my back and written in secret to others and herself) that she only married me to keep from embarrassing me. She somehow thinks that this is the way a good marriage should start and was giving me all that I deserved from the beginning? I say we never had a marriage to demise, so I will take no responsibility for its failure. How can one consider it a marriage when one party never respects the other party from the time they said I do, and continued to sneak around and do things behind the others back for years after.


----------



## MrHappyHat

Ripper said:


> Here is a thought experiment: If you could file an at fault divorce for infidelity where the wayward had to walk away with nothing (no assets, alimony, child custody, etc) how many cases of reconciliation would you see?



Hah hah, If it happened to me? I think I'll go back to my nerd roots and deliver a quote from StarCraft:

"*Nuclear Launch Detected!*"


----------



## Dyokemm

"I thought the goal here was to prevent affairs"

Yeah...this POS was a real predator troll looking for A's with unhappy women.

Zanne was actually the SECOND TAM female he did this with...only PMed them...never posted or sought advice, though that's the bs story he fed Zanne (and I'm assuming the other TAM woman).

I think Zanne still has a hard time truly believing that POS was a predator looking to seduce her into an A, but I believe (if I remember right) she did finally cut contact and reveal his username to the mods so POS won't be able to troll here anymore...he's probably off to some other board now that his hunting grounds here are gone.

But other than that, she has protected this POS's identity from both her BH and the other TAM members who would have outed him instantly and put an end to his shenanigans.


----------



## TimeHeals

Zanne said:


> I will share my story with you ..., it is typical [but I like to think I am special]
> 
> I enjoyed sex. [see how unique I am?]
> 
> 
> I met my OM approximately a year ago, here on TAM. . The biggest problem we ever faced was ... reality. [still have a problem with that one]
> 
> I remember reflecting how refreshing it was to be ... [ an adultress].
> 
> .



Fixed it for you.


----------



## xakulax

Zanne said:


> You make a good point, Manticore. However, three years is hardly a long term relationship, which is what I am in. I believe there is a difference.
> 
> My husband and I have been in a relationship since we were sixteen years old - that is, I have been with my partner for two thirds of my life!
> 
> While we have our problems, our entire marriage was not sexless nor did we have vanilla sex throughout the twenty five years we have been married.
> 
> So, if the early relationship dopamine wore off....let's say in the five years we dated before marriage, why would my husband and I experiment in our bedroom at all?
> 
> Certainly our marriage took a hit when the kids were young. But we had trips away, anniversaries, etc. when we spent special time together. I can remember going to a fantasy store with him to pick out fun toys. So we both had a healthy drive and curiosity, but life just....got in the way.
> 
> So many times when my husband would beg for this or that in the bedroom I would think, "If I give in now, he's going to want that all the time." Seriously! Yes, sex was used as leverage in our relationship.
> 
> If I could go back and change one thing about our marriage, it would be our attitude toward sex - I was the gatekeeper and he was the resentful pouty husband, never getting his way.And yet, I felt like he didn't understand me - and how much was on my plate! I was overwhelmed and he didn't seem to care. He just wanted more, more, more.
> 
> Whereas, being with an affair partner is technically no strings attached (or so I thought until I got too emotionally involved).
> 
> Manticore, my point about LTR's is that my husband never stopped asking for me to do certain things which I ended up doing with the OM (and I didn't mind denying him) and that is because we were in a LTR. There's a level of security and confidence in that commitment - from both sides. Which is why he was so destroyed when I cheated on him. He seriously never saw it coming.






I'm sorry but shouldn't that level of security and confidence with your spouse make it easier to do those things within the marriage


----------



## xakulax

Zanne said:


> *Mmmmmm.......I think you're confused, Xakulax. Madonna [email protected] complex is something else.*
> 
> Regarding your last comment, yes, that was my point....I did feel free to explore kinky things with my H, but when he's not my favorite person because of issues outside of the bedroom, it's not happening.
> 
> I stand by my first post in this thread in which I stated how important it was for my emotional needs to be met.
> 
> Perhaps OM played me, but he nailed it with the emotional side of things and he was rewarded with the physical.




Thank you for the clarification I was mistaken..



If I my ask why not simply end the marriage and move on if the marriage was dysfunctional as you say why not simply leave what keep you with him?


----------



## TimeHeals

Zanne said:


> Perhaps OM played me, but he nailed it with the emotional side of things and he was rewarded with the physical.



I am having a hard time wrappng my head around that.

"Played" would imply there was some kind of swindle involved.

But you clearly express: external validation = rewarded by sex.

In fact, you describe your marriage before your affair in similiar terms; you didn't like supplying sex when it wasn't being paid for by the appropriate external validation currency (a,k,a, you stroke my ego, and I'll stroke whatever you want).


You clearly got what you wanted and even seem to relish it now (the word choice "refreshing, for example', like drinking cold water on a hot day when you are thirsty--deprived of ego kibbles; ego stroke starvation--ohs nos!).

i'd worry if i were your spouse. No ego kibbles -> cheating. What happens if this 'need' sucks your spouse dry, and he just doesn't have it in him to supply you with a constant stream of ego strokes?

Also... kind of makes you wonder what his life is like. Is he just there to stroke your ego, and if he fails, no sex, plus you get to screw somebody else? How exactly do these exchanges work?


----------



## manticore

Zanne said:


> Perhaps OM played me, but he nailed it with the emotional side of things and he was rewarded with the physical.


the truth (and I am not trying to be cruel), is that to play you was not that hard, from the first time you posted in MB it was clear that you were resentful and you still wanted to someone the "fill your needs (whatever physical or emotional)" (and that someone could not be yout husband for whom you clearly stated you lack of attraction and your resent), that is why your case in particular anger me so much.

The scum bag that contacted you knew from the beginning what he was doing and how to reach his destination, I am going to be honest with you I have never read you full saga, I began to read just MB and the last posts these weeks, but that is all, but I can almost tell you how your interactions began, he contacted you telling you a BS story about how he also was in a loveless marriage or maybe he went as far as to say that his wife had some kind of affair, he began to contact you periodically to see if you were alright and how were you doing and if you needed someone to talk, when constnt communications began, he began to say how many things you both had in common and how he could not help but to think about you all the time and how the best of his day was reading your messages and well the rest is story.

Your POS is my top 10 of the lowest man that I can remember in threads, because he came to a place of healing where he have read many times how to identify the signs of women that are set to cheat, he used this information to approach you, while you both share the same fault in the destructions of your own marriages you were from the beginning entitled and sort of delusional but he is the vile perpretator that have read how destructive is for a person being betrayed is, how betrayed spouses even if they divorce spend years with the pain, insecurity, mind movies, anger inside them how they change and world view is changed forever and how kids lives are marked forever also, and still he went and put in motion the A because you were an easy target.

In terms of being a POS what he did is not different of those men that find that a women with whom they talk (a neighbor, coworker, FB friend) cheats on her husband, so they also want their part of the cake because after all if she cheats with other men she can also cheat with them, but what make it much worst is that unlike many unaware POS that have never read threads of Betrayed Spouses he knew from the beginning the destruction that he would cause to the innocent parts involved (kids, BSs).

POS if you for any reason read this post there is a special place on hell for people like you (and I am not even religious).


----------



## treyvion

manticore said:


> the truth (and I am not trying to be cruel), is that to play you was not that hard, from the first time you posted in MB it was clear that you were resentful and you still wanted to someone the "fill your needs (whatever physical or emotional)" (and that someone could not be yout husband for whom you clearly stated you lack of attraction and your resent), that is why your case in particular anger me so much.
> 
> The scum bag that contacted you knew from the beginning what he was doing and how to reach his destination, I am going to be honest with you I have never read you full saga, I began to read just MB and the last posts these weeks, but that is all, but I can almost tell you how your interactions began, he contacted you telling you a BS story about how he also was in a loveless marriage or maybe he went as far as to say that his wife had some kind of affair, he began to contact you periodically to see if you were alright and how were you doing and if you needed someone to talk, when constnt communications began, he began to say how many things you both had in common and how he could not help but to think about you all the time and how the best of his day was reading your messages and well the rest is story.
> 
> Your POS is my top 10 of the lowest man that I can remember in threads, because he came to a place of healing where he have read many times how to identify the signs of women that are set to cheat, he used this information to approach you, while you both share the same fault in the destructions of your own marriages you were from the beginning entitled and sort of delusional but he is the vile perpretator that have read how destructive is for a person being betrayed is, how betrayed spouses even if they divorce spend years with the pain, insecurity, mind movies, anger inside them how they change and world view is changed forever and how kids lives are marked forever also, and still he went and put in motion the A because you were an easy target.
> 
> In terms of being a POS what he did is not different of those men that find that a women with whom they talk (a neighbor, coworker, FB friend) cheats on her husband, so they also want their part of the cake because after all if she cheats with other men she can also cheat with them, but what make it much worst is that unlike many unaware POS that have never read threads of Betrayed Spouses he knew from the beginning the destruction that he would case to the innocent parts involved (kids, BSs).
> 
> POS if you for any reason read this post there is a special place on hell for people like you (and I am not even religious).


After reading the story, I felt she could have quelched some of the pain and miscommunication between her and her husband and committed the sex acts with him. I can only imagine the pain and devistation.


----------



## TimeHeals

manticore said:


> that someone could not be yout husband .


It's hard to fake interest in hearing the same story you've already heard (and 100 others like it) the 12th time you've heard it.

She 'needed' somebody who didn't know her or her annoying habits to tell her how amazing everything she does is and to at least pretend everything she is worried about is terribly important 

She even met her OM here. She could be trolling for OM2 right now, and if you "play your cards right", sprinkle a few compliments, agree with her, hit 'like' on all of her posts, well... ABARA CADABARA and "Open Sesame!" Tell ME how interesting I am, and sex follows. 

She gave you a recipe for opening the secret cave which is denied to all those who do not adore her properly.

That's the vibe I am getting. My narc detector is going off.


----------



## ThePheonix

manticore said:


> I gave you alot of examples of how this is a lie and you just ignore all of them, so I will put them again, read the threads and refute my theory not just answer *in what you think or you believe
> *


*

Dang my man, you think I could give a wrong opinion without being accused of posting a lie? But anyway, here you go:

"I was still struggling in my relationship with X to open back up and find a connection between us that was more than roommates/parenting."

"I resented my BS." 

"My engagement at home was at an all-time low, and I had shut down communication between us."

"Stay and be miserable."

" I just wanted to escape. "



For some reason I just cannot comprehend the wives had the requisite "high romantic interest" I'm talking about. 

Oh, I removed any names that might reveal the source. 

I recommend you read some other post by WW and see what I talking about when they describe their marriage was at an all time low. Better yet, read some by the BH where they describe the wife becoming an iceburg hence the reason they suspected some foul play.*


----------



## Ripper

Zanne said:


> I stand by my first post in this thread in which I stated how important it was for my emotional needs to be met.
> 
> Perhaps OM played me, but he nailed it with the emotional side of things and he was rewarded with the physical.


----------



## aug

Zanne said:


> My point was, if I _was_ being played by OM, then he got what he wanted. I didn't reward him with anything. I felt that I was in a real relationship and that's what you do.
> 
> You're twisting my words a bit with the supplying sex for reward angle, but honestly it's not an unusual situation to feel zero desire for your spouse because your feelings are hurt or they have pissed you off.
> 
> Also, I don't need my ego stroked. I only want respect and kindness, like most people. And I realize it goes both ways. *My husband felt disrespected too. But he resorted to ways which only served to push me further away. Calling me names and threatening me didn't exactly make me feel like I was being loved, honored, or cherished as his wife.*
> 
> I'm not talking about anything new here. Just two people who never learned how to deal with conflict properly. It's difficult once the walls go up.
> 
> I gave up...and gave in to temptation. He did not. That's how our story ends.



But you having an affair is your way of giving your husband respect and kindness.

The Golden Rule does not apply to you, it seems.


----------



## wranglerman

Zanne said:


> my point about LTR's is that my husband never stopped asking for me to do certain things which I ended up doing with the OM (and I didn't mind denying him) and that is because we were in a LTR. There's a level of security and confidence in that commitment - from both sides. Which is why he was so destroyed when I cheated on him. He seriously never saw it coming.


This paragraph has really struck a chord with me, in understanding how a LTR such as a marriage can become stale over time if not tended to, much like a garden in some sense I suppose.

It is difficult to understand, not knowing your particular circumstances, but I can relate to it from my own marriages.

The highs of the A brought out the kinkier side of you, the comfort of your LTR gave you your security blanket, please do not think I am knocking or mocking you, I have read a few posts here with scorn and anger at WSs who voice their opinions and tell their side of things, something a lot of BSs find hard to read, I don't see how cheating made things better but I do see how you succumbed to being an affair participant. 

You made a bad choice there in betraying your spouse, but I certainly understand that any relationship is a two way street and requires both parties to step up, and this is possibly why a lot of BSs get shirty, they can actually see and relate to the possible flaws and causes of their own WSs willingness to become an AP, whether it be an EA or PA, it really is more about meeting needs than sheer narcissistic tendencies in so many As and it shows in your story how your BS was not meeting your needs and you became vulnerable to advances from outside interests.

I am fascinated by your openness here, and also admire you for sticking out the jibs and ribs from the anger brigade.

I hope you are making an effort now to meet your BSs needs and that he has some greater understanding of where it all went wrong?


----------



## TimeHeals

Zanne said:


> M I didn't reward him with anything. I felt that I was in a real relationship and that's what you do.
> 
> You're twisting my words


Ahem.. "Reward" was your word choice. You implied you "rewarded" him with sex. I didn't "twist that meaning" one nanometer. You have a problem with honesty, I am failry certain.

Go back and read what you wrote. No twisting is required. Some bull**** filtering is though 

Got your number, I think.


----------



## arbitrator

*In cheating, all that the WS is doing is just covertly "substituting relationships," doing largely the same things with their AP that they were doing, or did do with their committed marital partner. 

And to perpetuate that illicit relationship of theirs with their new AP, keeping them in the fold and in their heart, they'll often do sexual as well as non-sexual things that they would deem as being unimaginable with their mate!*


----------



## jld

I appreciate your honesty and openness, Zanne. Thanks for being willing to open yourself to criticism in order to help us understand your side of things.

Why does your husband want to stay together?


----------



## Forest

Zanne said:


> The fact remains, somewhere in our 30 years together (25 years married), I lost all attraction for him and respect as well. There is a certain amount of vulnerability and trust needed in a relationship to try new things; in the bedroom, as well as in the way we treat each other. Trust was utterly gone in our relationship – both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> .


This the stage in a marriage where you can make either a responsible and honorable decision (work on marriage or end it) or commit an irresponsible and unjust act.

Could this be where our true character is revealed?


----------



## xakulax

All this talk about needs being meet but know one ask whether she was meeting her husbands needs did she tell him what her "needs" where or did she like many WS expect her spouse to become level 9 Telepathy and just know.... 




I posted this in a another thread and I feel It applies here


It's *the golden ticket mentality* you have a dysfunctional marriage your spouse is abusive verbally or physically your needs are not being met emotionally or physically no need to divorce you have a golden ticket/self prescribed excuse to cheat rather than address to problems in the marriage or leave. One major aspect of cheaters we seen thus far is conflict avoidance why bother working hard on the marriage when lying on your back is easier and when caught you have a golden ticket excuse.




This is the reason why I'm suspicious of any wayward who talks about problems before the affair in their marriages I'm sorry but you have a voice if there's something wrong in the marriage fix it if it doesn't want to be fix you move on it is literally that simple.


----------



## hambone

arbitrator said:


> *In cheating, all that the WS is doing is just covertly "substituting relationships," doing largely the same things with their AP that they were doing, or did do with their committed marital partner.
> 
> And to perpetuate that illicit relationship of theirs with their new AP, keeping them in the fold and in their heart, they'll often do sexual as well as non-sexual things that they would deem as being unimaginable with their mate!*


So, they think they have to keep it interesting in order to keep the affair going? Sounds like a desperate person.


----------



## aug

hambone said:


> So, they think they have to keep it interesting in order to keep the affair going? Sounds like a desperate person.



Or, just an excuse for pure lust.

She wanted to destroy the marriage and did not care how she did that. Still doesnt.


----------



## Squeakr

xakulax said:


> All this talk about needs being meet but know one ask whether she was meeting her husbands needs did she tell him what her "needs" where or did she like many WS expect her spouse to become level 9 Telepathy and just know....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I posted this in a another thread and I feel It applies here
> 
> 
> It's *the golden ticket mentality* you have a dysfunctional marriage your spouse is abusive verbally or physically your needs are not being met emotionally or physically no need to divorce you have a golden ticket/self prescribed excuse to cheat rather than address to problems in the marriage or leave. One major aspect of cheaters we seen thus far is conflict avoidance why bother working hard on the marriage when lying on your back is easier and when caught you have a golden ticket excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the reason why I'm suspicious of any wayward who talks about problems before the affair in their marriages I'm sorry but you have a voice if there's something wrong in the marriage fix it if it doesn't want to be fix you move on it is literally that simple.


I like your theory and somewhat think the same. The issue I have is that the final paragraph is the one where the WS seems to rewrite the marital history. I have heard and seen it numerous times, where the WS will discuss issues with anyone and everyone but the BS, then blame the BS for not being receptive to their complaints and taking them seriously. Some will even say that they said they would do x if y didn't change, yet the BS doesn't ever feel they were told or warned of the issues and unhappiness (yet the WS will point to all their supporters that they did tell and say they all knew you just didn't want to here it). 

It gets to the point that the BS starts to accept that maybe they weren't listening and heeding the warning and thus accept the responsibility for the issues. The WS just can't see that the BS was happy and content and didn't see things as awfully as the WS and they begins to wonder if it was that bad and they had their head in the sand the whole time??


----------



## rrrbbbttt

"Of course he takes no blame for my affair."

He has no responsibility for the affair that is all on you. From what you stated he was a terrible husband who you should have divorced prior to having an affair.

Even though you were monogamous during your affair you changed your integrity by submitting yourself to an affair without breaking from your husband


----------



## arbitrator

Zanne said:


> *In my case, I would never dream of having sex with my husband and OM during the same time frame. I can't even fathom the idea.*


*I'm awfully glad to hear you say that, Zanne! 

It's just way too bad that my rich, skanky, XW adhered to that mantra! How it literally just ripped my heart out when I uncovered the sordid evidence of it!*



Hambone said:


> So, they think they have to keep it interesting in order to keep the affair going? *Sounds like a desperate person.*


*Either a desperate person, or simply one so egotistical that they just did not care!*


----------



## xakulax

Squeakr said:


> I like your theory and somewhat think the same. The issue I have is that the final paragraph is the one where the WS seems to rewrite the marital history. I have heard and seen it numerous times, where the WS will discuss issues with anyone and everyone but the BS, then blame the BS for not being receptive to their complaints and taking them seriously. Some will even say that they said they would do x if y didn't change, yet the BS doesn't ever feel they were told or warned of the issues and unhappiness (yet the WS will point to all their supporters that they did tell and say they all knew you just didn't want to here it).
> 
> It gets to the point that the BS starts to accept that maybe they weren't listening and heeding the warning and thus accept the responsibility for the issues. The WS just can't see that the BS was happy and content and didn't see things as awfully as the WS and they begins to wonder if it was that bad and they had their head in the sand the whole time??




One cannot solve a problem if one is unaware there is problem to begin with


----------



## TheBaxter

I read Zanne's thread in the other forum. Boy she sure does remind me of my ex wife. Full of justifications and entitlement. My ex wife was very reserved sexually. I don't know for sure but I'm sure she did things for her OM/second husband that she never did for me. She was so in love with the man. He was her soulmate. He met her every emotional need. He was perfect. He married her and five years later dumped her after he got her to assume all his debts. Now her perfect man, perfect lover, who saved her from the evil bad guy (me) is nowhere to be found, and she is over a hundred grand in debts. 

Me? I picked myself up, got myself in shape, took back my life and now I split my time, money and affections with several women , all who are younger, slimmer, prettier and much better in bed than my ex. My ex gained weight and is now a bloated caricature of the woman she used to be. She wants me to get back together with her. No way. I hope Zanne's husband survives and enjoys the same good fortune and healthy sex life as I am enjoying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

OM always got more than the BS. He replaced the BS from his/her own life. Sex? Doesn't even count anymore for me.


----------



## xakulax

TheBaxter said:


> I read Zanne's thread in the other forum. Boy she sure does remind me of my wife. Full of justifications and entitlement. My wife was very reserved sexually. I don't know for sure but I'm sure she did things for her OM/second husband that she never did for me. She was so in love with the man. He was her soulmate. He met her every emotional need. He was perfect. He married her and five years later dumped her after he got her to assume all his debts. Now her perfect man, perfect lover, who saved her from the evil bad guy (me) is nowhere to be found, and she is over a hundred grand in debts.
> 
> Me? I picked myself up, got myself in shape, took back my life and now I split my time, money and affections with several women , all who are younger, slimmer, prettier and much better in bed than my ex. My ex gained weight and is now a bloated caricature of the woman she used to be. *She wants me to get back together with her. No way.* I hope Zanne's husband survives and enjoys the same good fortune and healthy sex life as I am enjoying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




:rofl::rofl:


They all ways want to come back


----------



## WhiteRaven

xakulax said:


> :rofl::rofl:
> 
> 
> They all ways want to come back


Coz they aren't done hurting us. They'll never be done hurting us. Why do As stop after the BS detaches? Coz they can't humiliate us anymore. They can't get their high from our misery, pain, tears. 

Well, too bad for them.


----------



## manticore

Zanne said:


> I'm one of those people who publicly frowned on affairs, but I was tempted. I actually didn't think I would have the guts to go through with it. That's why my H was so stunned... he heard me talk about other people in affairs and I knew how wrong and destructive it was.
> 
> I can remember the exact point I basically said, "F--- it." I knew that I was playing with fire. I made a decision. I didn't just fall into an affair.
> 
> 
> Again, this is my situation as a person in a 20+ year relationship. The OM was only my second sexual partner. I'm sure there are many variations depending on people's past, amount of partners, and their view about sex, etc.


Zanne, like I told you I have read your MB thread. what I am seeing here does not match what I remember really happened

if I remeber correctly (hope I am not mistaking cases because I read it sometime ago), before this OM from TAM, you fooled around with a friend of your husband and also there was another OM involved at least emotionally before the TAM guy, so this was not something that suddendly happened, you were actively looking to find someone else while married.

Now, I would have no problems believing your speech if I were ignorant the facts of the thread of MB, I remember that your husband actually found about you and his friend and you had a glance of the devastation that creates, your husband rug sweeped the whole thing, but tell me that and this point it were not clear that you had to divorce?

instead you insisted in neglecting the realtionship with your husband and you found a new OM, if you had divorced him the first time he caught you when it was obvious to you still pretended to look for someone else, then your family will not be suffering the consequences of the devastation the affairs created, now instead you became the sexual toy of a POS OM that preys in marriage pages, destroyed emitonaly your husband as you probably will never understand, and even damaged your kids ( as I rember some of them found texts and images of your "communications" during all these horrible situation)


----------



## Dyokemm

"Also... kind of makes you wonder what his life is like. Is he just there to stroke your ego, and if he fails, no sex, plus you get to screw somebody else? How exactly do these exchanges work?"

In fairness to Zanne, she has been posting here for a long time and from what she has shared it is a simple truth that her BH has some major issues too....though he in NO WAY deserved what she did to him.

The entire M is very dysfunctional at this point, and was undoubtedly made irrecoverably so by Zanne's A. 

That is a guilt/burden she will have to carry for the rest of her life. Her M was probably fixable until she blew it up.

At this point, I think the separation and D they are moving towards is for the best.


----------



## TimeHeals

manticore said:


> before this OM from TAM, you fooled around with a friend of your husband and also there


Serial cheater?

Let me fake being surprised by that


----------



## Dyokemm

"Now, I would have no problems believing your speech if I were ignorant the facts of the thread of MB, I remember that your husband actually found about you and his friend and you had a glance of the devastation that creates, your husband rug sweeped the whole thing, but tell me that and this point it were not clear that you had to divorce?"

This is an excellent point, and one I think Zanne really needs to reflect on in trying to become a better person in the future.

She did indeed already know the devastation cheating would bring to her BH and family.

Zanne was never very detailed on how far the friend situation went...I do not think it involved sex from what I recall (at least not PIV) but it and the other EA(s?) did bring a lot of hurt into her family home and M.

And even Zanne admits, afte BH found out, he DID try to make some of the changes she wanted...there was some effort.

But knowing this, she still went on to drop a nuclear bomb on her M/family by engaging in a full blown A with the predator POS.

I give her credit though for continuing to post, knowing she would take lumps, and slowly trying to work her way back to being a better person.

At times it has seemed like pulling teeth to advise her on getting out of the 'fog' and wayward thinking, but she has started to realize what POS is and the damage she has done to many people's lives.

POS on the other hand?

That f***ing worm is still in hiding, and unfortunately she has still basically protected him. (other than giving his username to mods so he couldn't do this to a THIRD woman on TAM).

She has not made a disclosure/apology to his clueless BW, and will not even give POS's name to her BH so he could expose the scumbag for what he is.


----------



## xakulax

TimeHeals said:


> Serial cheater?
> 
> Let me fake being surprised by that


----------



## manticore

Dyokemm said:


> (other than giving his username to mods so he couldn't do this to a THIRD woman on TAM).


I didn't know about this, and the other female user have not come foward giving the username of the bastard?

also how was it known that it was a second woman, if zanne revealed it I hope that she contacted it to let her know tha she is being played


----------



## Ripper

TheBaxter said:


> I read Zanne's thread in the other forum.


Tried myself. Had to go to Mission Oriented Protective Posture 4. Still almost didn't make it back.


----------



## Nucking Futs

TimeHeals said:


> Serial cheater?
> 
> Let me fake being surprised by that


----------



## hambone

Zanne said:


> In my case, I would never dream of having sex with my husband and OM during the same time frame. I can't even fathom the idea. It would be like having sex with a stranger, and I'm not into ONS's either..


I had a friend who's wife had an affair and eventually left him...

He wanted to reconcile but she did not.

He told me that their love life improved while she was having the affair. To, for lack of a better word, cover the affair.. she increased the frequency that they were having sex.


----------



## xakulax

hambone said:


> I had a friend who's wife had an affair and eventually left him...
> 
> He wanted to reconcile but she did not.
> 
> He told me that their love life improved while she was having the affair. To, for lack of a better word, cover the affair.. she increased the frequency that they were having sex.




Wow this guy was so stave for sex from his wife he was willing to take OM sloppy seconds


----------



## 3putt

xakulax said:


> Wow this guy was so stave for sex from his wife he was willing to take OM sloppy seconds


I took it to mean that he found out about all this after the fact.

At least I hope that's how it was meant.


----------



## hambone

xakulax said:


> Wow this guy was so stave for sex from his wife he was willing to take OM sloppy seconds


He didn't know about the affair when she ramped up their love life. 

Once he became aware of her affair, their love life ended. She left him.


----------



## xakulax

hambone said:


> He didn't know about the affair when she ramped up their love life.
> 
> Once he became aware of her affair, their love life ended. She left him.



Oh OK for a minute there I thought this guy was another repressed male cuckold I can only imaged his anger when he found out her sudden interest in intimacy was nothing more than a subterfuge to maintain her affair.


----------



## sidney2718

Zanne said:


> I stand by my first post in this thread in which I stated how important it was for my emotional needs to be met.
> 
> Perhaps OM played me, but he nailed it with the emotional side of things and he was rewarded with the physical.


BINGO! For many men it is the physical side that is the first thing. If that goes well, the emotional side then becomes important to them.

And here in a capsule we have the explanation for a large number of infidelities. Woman finds a man who can reach her emotions, or man finds a woman who will give him sex.


----------



## sidney2718

hambone said:


> So, they think they have to keep it interesting in order to keep the affair going? Sounds like a desperate person.


Don't you think that a marriage works the same way? You have to keep it interesting too.


----------



## hambone

sidney2718 said:


> Don't you think that a marriage works the same way? You have to keep it interesting too.


I agree. The WS could have kept it interesting with their spouse.


Which brings us back to the question of why WS does things with the AP that they were unwilling to do with their spouse.


----------



## xakulax

sidney2718 said:


> BINGO! For many men it is the physical side that is the first thing. If that goes well, the emotional side then becomes important to them.
> 
> And here in a capsule we have the explanation for a large number of infidelities. Woman finds a man who can reach her emotions, or man finds a woman who will give him sex.



True but you're missing one important fact how many of these wives or husbands express clearly what there needs are in the relationship one cannot address a problem if one is not aware of a problem in the first place You cannot use my needs aren't being met as a pretext for cheating..



Maybe it's just me but I always made sure if there's anything wrong in my relationships I made it clear and talk about it openly to resolve the issue But then again I tend to date women who are more mature and have no problems expressing clearly if something is wrong.



If you do not make it clear what your needs are if you do not stress the importance of those needs how do you expect someone to address them like I said earlier men and women are not level 9 telepathy Its real simple you either fight for your marriage or be mature enough to let it go.


----------



## xakulax

hambone said:


> I agree. The WS could have kept it interesting with their spouse.
> 
> 
> Which brings us back to the question of why WS does things with the AP that they were unwilling to do with their spouse.




Simple the affair partner makes it clear what he wants sexually from the start the wayward not wanting to lose the interest of the AP does this sexual requests in order to maintain the relationship men who make it clear early in relationship what they want tend to get it especially an affair after all the AP has nothing to lose he can move on to another woman where the WS may not find another OM/scumbag who meets her "needs" 


PS: Needs not being meet = golden ticket


----------



## xakulax

Zanne said:


> Sorry, not even close. The scenario you describe sounds like a bad Lifetime movie. Bummer for the people involved if it's true.



Maybe not for you zanne but it does indeed happen



PS: aren't all Lifetime movies bad


----------



## bandit.45

This thread has jumped the shark. It's supposed to be about all the naughty acts of the WS. Instead we have a rehash of Zanne's ongoing epic miniseries carried over from her other thread. Tell me, after the Fonz takes off his water skis and wipes the water of his leather jacket, does some married chick with 5 kids give him a BJ behind the boat house?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I wonder how many of these situations are better explained by a WS no longer being willing to do certain acts with the BS (like they used to) but doing them with a new AP. This seems to be a more common situation than a WS never doing a certain act with the BS but doing it freely with the AP.


----------



## lordmayhem

xakulax said:


> True but you're missing one important fact how many of these wives or husbands express clearly what there needs are in the relationship one cannot address a problem if one is not aware of a problem in the first place You cannot use my needs aren't being met as a pretext for cheating..
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I always made sure if there's anything wrong in my relationships I made it clear and talk about it openly to resolve the issue But then again I tend to date women who are more mature and have no problems expressing clearly if something is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> If you do not make it clear what your needs are if you do not stress the importance of those needs how do you expect someone to address them like I said earlier men and women are not level 9 telepathy Its real simple you either fight for your marriage or be mature enough to let it go.


:iagree:

How many times have we read about a BH here who finds out his WW is having an affair, only to be told that her needs weren't being met, and it was news to the BH? Plenty. Then the BH says she never told him anything.

Fact: Many men don't recognize HINTS, they recognize words thru communication.


----------



## hambone

xakulax said:


> Simple the affair partner makes it clear what he wants sexually from the start the wayward not wanting to lose the interest of the AP does this sexual requests in order to maintain the relationship men who make it clear early in relationship what they want tend to get it especially an affair after all the AP has nothing to lose he can move on to another woman where the WS may not find another OM/scumbag who meets her "needs"
> 
> 
> PS: Needs not being meet = golden ticket


I think it has more to do with the WS not feeling comfortable with spouse. Spouse isn't meeting her needs... there's tension in the relationship. They are or have drifted away from each other. 

The AP is making her feel all warm and fuzzy.. She's on that dopamine high.


----------



## lordmayhem

hambone said:


> I think it has more to do with the WS not feeling comfortable with spouse. Spouse isn't meeting her needs... there's tension in the relationship. They are or have drifted away from each other.
> 
> The AP is making her feel all warm and fuzzy.. She's on that dopamine high.


:iagree:

Yup. And it's total hypocracy.

Ask any BS if their WS was meeting their needs? Yet who were the ones who cheated? I'm pretty sure that I wasn't exactly getting my needs met, yet I didn't cheat. And that's true for just about any BS here.


----------



## jld

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Yup. And it's total hypocracy.
> 
> Ask any BS if their WS was meeting their needs? Yet who were the ones who cheated? I'm pretty sure that I wasn't exactly getting my needs met, yet I didn't cheat. And that's true for just about any BS here.


You are right: cheating is not fair. It is wrong. And it always hurts somebody.


----------



## the guy

I don't want to know what waywards think...hell if they were thinking at all they wouldn't be so deceiving.

Seriously...don't generalize by using the word "all"



Back to topic.

I sometimes think of what my wayward wouldn't do with her POS. I mean they could never go out in public or go on real dates, meet family, BBQ with real friends, or have an honest relationship.


----------



## hambone

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Yup. And it's total hypocracy.
> 
> Ask any BS if their WS was meeting their needs? Yet who were the ones who cheated? I'm pretty sure that I wasn't exactly getting my needs met, yet I didn't cheat. And that's true for just about any BS here.


I don't have a problem with that.

Neither one was meeting the other's needs. IE.. "They drifted apart".

I was addressing the question of why WS do things with AP they wouldn't do with spouse.

IF you had had the affair, you might have done things for the AP... like bring flowers, compliment her appearance. etc. etc. that you weren't doing with your spouse.


----------



## jld

hambone said:


> IF you had had the affair, you might have done things for the AP... like bring flowers, compliment her appearance. etc. etc. that you weren't doing with your spouse.


Thought-provoking, but probably hard to hear, ham.


----------



## hambone

jld said:


> Thought-provoking, but probably hard to hear, ham.


Bringing flowers, complimenting her appearance, dining at nice restaurants, just being attentive... 

All that stuff is what's giving her that warm and fuzzy feeling.


----------



## wranglerman

hambone said:


> Bringing flowers, complimenting her appearance, dining at nice restaurants, just being attentive...
> 
> All that stuff is what's giving her that warm and fuzzy feeling.


And that s why date night is so important, no stress, no kids, nothing but each others company.

Date night is the night to talk and connect, and not to mention numerous sex acts on the bonnet of my pick-up that would make a hooker blush 

We use the term "meeting needs", how true, but how can you meet the needs of a person who already checked out? How can you do more? Give more? Than you realisticaly have time, effort and emmotional empathy for? Not saying you won't try, but relationships are like jobs in the service industry, happy clients keep coming back, or they go off and find another restaurant to eat at.


----------



## hambone

wranglerman said:


> And that s why date night is so important, no stress, no kids, nothing but each others company.
> 
> Date night is the night to talk and connect, and not to mention numerous sex acts on the bonnet of my pick-up that would make a hooker blush
> 
> We use the term "meeting needs", how true, but how can you meet the needs of a person who already checked out? How can you do more? Give more? Than you realisticaly have time, effort and emmotional empathy for? Not saying you won't try, but relationships are like jobs in the service industry, happy clients keep coming back, or they go off and find another restaurant to eat at.


The most important thing you can do.. for your kids... is keep your marriage strong.

Don't let yourselves drift apart. 

Make time for each other and keep connected.. IMO, sex is a key part of staying connected.

My wife was a SAHM... In order to make sure that she had enough energy at the end of the day.. I got her a maid two half days a week. And, the kids went to mothers day out a couple of days a week... But, we were older when we had our children. Like 36 and 39.


----------



## TimeHeals

The problem with all this pontificating is that it's human nature to begin to take things for granted; we habituate to good things very quickly.

Depending on externals (once you've met the basic material needs like food, water, shelter, teasonable safety, and compassionate interaction) is a treadmil. If you depend on externalities to make you "happy", then you are going to be stuck on that treadmill looking for the next thing that will make you happy .

You're fooling yourself if you think you can simply nice yourself into a great marriage or that date night is going to prevent a spouse who is dependent on externalities from becoming unhappy. If they can't self-sooth, if they can't find satisfaction in being in service to others sometimes, and if they can't just experience quiet satisfaction in knowing that they are doing their best, then they will eventually suck you dry too if you let them because the bar will keep needing to be raised.

And using "unhappiness" as an excuse for lack of empathy (or even covert or overt antipathy) and cheating makes as much sense as saying, I was feeling glum, so I figured spending the house-payment money on a barrel of tequilla and a hooker was the way to go.

i don't understand making excuses for bad behavior; yours, mine, or the behavior of others. Seems like a good way to set yourself up for making a never-ending string of bad judgements, IMO.

Here's a universal truth: we will all be unhappy at some time. If your marriage hinges on one partner always being happy, it's doomed already, and if your partner thinks you are responsible for making them happy, you have a rough road ahead.


----------



## hambone

TimeHeals said:


> The problem with all this pontificating is that it's human nature to begin to take things for granted; we habituate to good things very quickly.
> 
> Depending on externals (once you've met the basic material needs like food, water, shelter, teasonable safety, and compassionate interaction) is a treadmil. If you depend on externalities to make you "happy", then you are going to be stuck on that treadmill looking for the next thing that will make you happy .
> 
> You're fooling yourself if you think you can simply nice yourself into a great marriage or that date night is going to prevent a spouse who is dependent on externalities from becoming unhappy. If they can't self-sooth, if they can't find satisfaction in being in service to others sometimes, and if they can't just experience quiet satisfaction in knowing that they are doing their best, then they will eventually suck you dry too if you let them because the bar will keep needing to be raised.
> 
> And using "unhappiness" as an excuse for lack of empathy (or even covert or overt antipathy) and cheating makes as much sense as saying, I was feeling glum, so I figured spending the house-payment money on a barrel of tequilla and a hooker was the way to go.
> 
> i don't understand making excuses for bad behavior; yours, mine, or the behavior of others. Seems like a good way to set yourself up for making a never-ending string of bad judgements, IMO.
> 
> Here's a universal truth: we will all be unhappy at some time. If your marriage hinges on one partner always being happy, it's doomed already, and if your partner thinks you are responsible for making them happy, you have a rough road ahead.


One of the keys to a happy marriage is that you married for the right reason... That is, you love that person and want to make them happy.

Too many people get married for other reasons. Such as, what they can get out of a marriage... What their spouse will do for them.

So, you court your spouse... you go out of your way to impress them. to please them, to do special things for them because you want them to like you... you want them to marry you so (if you're a guy) the wife will cook, clean, have sex, bring in extra income... look exceeding well on your arm... impress you friends with her beauty.. what ever. 

YOU are not being yourself... I wrote that last paragraph from the male perspective but women do it as well, maybe more so than men.

Once you are married... and they are yours, you can relax.. you know, be your self. Well, you aren't' the same guy... What you did to convince her to marry you was always work... but now that you're married... you do all that stuff you used to do to impress her.. you get lazy... Life get's in the way. 

And, once you have kids... life really gets in the way. 


On the other hand, when you truly love someone... and you marry them for what you can do for them.. as in, "I want to make you the happiest girl in the world!" you treat her like a queen because you love her... not because you want to marry her for what she can do for you.. AND, the object of your affection feels the same way about you... 

Man, you have really got something then...

IMO, way too many people settle...


----------



## sidney2718

xakulax said:


> True but you're missing one important fact how many of these wives or husbands express clearly what there needs are in the relationship one cannot address a problem if one is not aware of a problem in the first place You cannot use my needs aren't being met as a pretext for cheating..
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I always made sure if there's anything wrong in my relationships I made it clear and talk about it openly to resolve the issue But then again I tend to date women who are more mature and have no problems expressing clearly if something is wrong.
> 
> If you do not make it clear what your needs are if you do not stress the importance of those needs how do you expect someone to address them like I said earlier men and women are not level 9 telepathy Its real simple you either fight for your marriage or be mature enough to let it go.


I seriously think that many spouses DO try to communicate their needs but are either not taken seriously or their spouse is in denial. There are subjects some spouses simply won't discuss. That's a problem that alpha males sometimes have.

And divorce is sometimes not an option. The most common case is the wife with no independent means and no way to pay a lawyer. Another case is that of children who will now live in a broken home. And there are other cases too.

Sadly, life isn't always simple. In fact, it is almost never simple.


----------



## sidney2718

lordmayhem said:


> :
> 
> Fact: Many men don't recognize HINTS, they recognize words thru communication.


I agree. But men also have to realize that women, especially when talking about difficult subjects, tend to be oblique. They do that because to do otherwise gets them called "pushy" and "demanding".

How many men have heard their wives shout: "Listen here, sh*thead. You suck in bed. Always the same thing. BJ, PIV, and then roll over and go to sleep. Has it ever occurred to you that I'd like to get off too? Or are you as dumb as a rock?"

I'd guess that there is more often a hint which the man takes for a request for longer and better activity to which he replies: "Listen beotch, I work hard all day and need my sleep. Take your complaints and stuff them."

I'd expect that would be the alpha man's response, wouldn't you?


----------



## sidney2718

hambone said:


> The most important thing you can do.. for your kids... is keep your marriage strong.
> 
> Don't let yourselves drift apart.
> 
> Make time for each other and keep connected.. IMO, sex is a key part of staying connected.
> 
> My wife was a SAHM... In order to make sure that she had enough energy at the end of the day.. I got her a maid two half days a week. And, the kids went to mothers day out a couple of days a week... But, we were older when we had our children. Like 36 and 39.


Great advice. I'd only add that not only is sex important, so are flowers, hugs, and really listening.


----------



## xakulax

sidney2718 said:


> *I seriously think that many spouses DO try to communicate their needs but are either not taken seriously or their spouse is in denial*. There are subjects some spouses simply won't discuss. That's a problem that alpha males sometimes have.
> 
> And divorce is sometimes not an option. The most common case is the wife with no independent means and no way to pay a lawyer. Another case is that of children who will now live in a broken home. And there are other cases too.
> 
> Sadly, life isn't always simple. In fact, it is almost never simple.

















Shore like I said If you do not make it clear what your needs are if you do not stress the importance of those needs how do you expect someone to address it and yes divorce is always an option


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## xakulax

sidney2718 said:


> I agree. But men also have to realize that women, especially when talking about difficult subjects, tend to be oblique. They do that because to do otherwise gets them called "pushy" and "demanding".
> 
> How many men have heard their wives shout: "Listen here, sh*thead. You suck in bed. Always the same thing. BJ, PIV, and then roll over and go to sleep. Has it ever occurred to you that I'd like to get off too? Or are you as dumb as a rock?"
> 
> I'd guess that there is more often a hint which the man takes for a request for longer and better activity to which he replies: "Listen beotch, I work hard all day and need my sleep. Take your complaints and stuff them."
> 
> I'd expect that would be the alpha man's response, wouldn't you?



Hay I like woman who are pushy and demanding it lets me know she invested in the relationship and will speak up and fight for it quiet and demure usually = drama and bull s#$t.


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## russell28

sidney2718 said:


> I agree. But men also have to realize that women, especially when talking about difficult subjects, tend to be oblique. They do that because to do otherwise gets them called "pushy" and "demanding".
> 
> How many men have heard their wives shout: "Listen here, sh*thead. You suck in bed. Always the same thing. BJ, PIV, and then roll over and go to sleep. Has it ever occurred to you that I'd like to get off too? Or are you as dumb as a rock?"
> 
> I'd guess that there is more often a hint which the man takes for a request for longer and better activity to which he replies: "Listen beotch, I work hard all day and need my sleep. Take your complaints and stuff them."
> 
> I'd expect that would be the alpha man's response, wouldn't you?


How about the wife in this scenario realize that if she was a porn star, she'd be able to take charge and change it up, if he's happy with routine and she wants variety, perhaps instead of hoping he can read her mind, and eventually going to another man since he's incapable of reading her lack of signals and lack of words.. she should initiate what she wants say "hey honey, you know what i'd love, wheel me around like a wheel barrow with a collar and leash and I'll bark like a dog.. most guys would be like 'sure okay, sounds good'... Instead of going to some other guy to do that, and not letting the husband know she's really into the kink. She may also be flirting with guys at work and her husband is less sexy because he's just a been there done that a thousand times, not because he's any less sexy or capable than they are. He's just not new and shiny and different. Eventually the AP will do bj, missionary, doggy, then roll over and go home to his wife.


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## hambone

sidney2718 said:


> I agree. But men also have to realize that women, especially when talking about difficult subjects, tend to be oblique. They do that because to do otherwise gets them called "pushy" and "demanding".
> 
> How many men have heard their wives shout: "Listen here, sh*thead. You suck in bed. Always the same thing. BJ, PIV, and then roll over and go to sleep. Has it ever occurred to you that I'd like to get off too? Or are you as dumb as a rock?"
> 
> I'd guess that there is more often a hint which the man takes for a request for longer and better activity to which he replies: "Listen beotch, I work hard all day and need my sleep. Take your complaints and stuff them."
> 
> I'd expect that would be the alpha man's response, wouldn't you?


There's a happy medium in there..

My wife knows that subtle hints just don't work with me..

I am not offended by straight talk. She knows how to get her point across to me without getting all up in my face and demanding that I do something..

I love my wife and am more than happy to give her what ever she needs.

That said, it is not fair to gripe and moan about stuff you didn't specify.


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## xakulax

hambone said:


> There's a happy medium in there..
> 
> My wife knows that subtle hints just don't work with me..
> 
> I am not offended by straight talk. She knows how to get her point across to me without getting all up in my face and demanding that I do something..
> 
> I love my wife and am more than happy to give her what ever she needs.
> 
> That said, it is not fair to gripe and moan about stuff you didn't specify.



:iagree:


The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results


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## TimeHeals

hambone said:


> you love that person and want to make them happy.
> .


I would argue that is exactly the wrong reason to marry, and I would argue that is not love, nor is it terribly mature. It's nice to do things for others, but if you pair up with somebody who makes it your job to make them happy (e.g. there is something missing in them. They aren't capable of just being happy without constant external input), then your ego just screwed you royally by making it all about what you can do to "make somebody happy".

You don't have superpowers. You're just a human like everybody else.

On top of that, I am fairly certain you will do things that your spouse doesn't care for very much Could be a bunch of things. Maybe you watch football, like working on cars, and forget to clip your toenails for months at a time?

Also, even healthy, resilient, well-adjusted people who are interpedendent (as opposed to codependent or narcissistic), are still going to be unhappy sometimes, and sometimes they may even experience deep grief. You have no control over that. I can't imagine anything more wrongheaded than thinking it's your job to cheer somebody up when they are grieving the death of a child or sibling or parent, for example.

If you marry somebody who expects you to make them happy, you screwed yourself by being egotistical enough to think you could make somebody happy. They have to have basic character, mindfulness and resilience without you, or your married life is going to suck.

I can absolutely guarantee that you do not have it within your power to "make somebody happy" on a sustained basis.


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## hambone

TimeHeals said:


> I would argue that is exactly the wrong reason to marry, and I would argue that is not love, nor is it terribly mature. It's nice to do things for others, but if you pair up with somebody who makes it your job to make them happy (e.g. there is something missing in them. They aren't capable of just being happy without constant external input), then your ego just screwed you royally by making it all about what you can do to "make somebody happy".
> 
> You don't have superpowers. You're just a human like everybody else.
> 
> On top of that, I am fairly certain you will do things that your spouse doesn't care for very much Could be a bunch of things. Maybe you watch football, like working on cars, and forget to clip your toenails for months at a time?
> 
> Also, even healthy, resilient, well-adjusted people who are interpedendent (as opposed to codependent or narcissistic), are still going to be unhappy sometimes, and sometimes they may even experience deep grief. You have no control over that. I can't imagine anything more wrongheaded than thinking it's your job to cheer somebody up when they are grieving the death of a child or sibling or parent, for example.
> 
> If you marry somebody who expects you to make them happy, you screwed yourself by being egotistical enough to think you could make somebody happy. They have to have basic character, mindfulness and resilience without you, or your married life is going to suck.
> 
> I can absolutely guarantee that you do not have it within your power to "make somebody happy" on a sustained basis.


Being in love is the only reason you should ever marry. When you are in love... you want to do things to please your spouse. You don't have to work at it every day.. It gives you great pleasure seeing your spouse happy.

Your perspective is that it allows your spouse to take advantage of you... And you are correct.

What you have to do is properly assess if your spouse is in love with you.. When the love is mutual... you are focused on meeting her needs... and she is focused on meeting your needs... what could be more blissful that that?

The alternative is having to work at your marriage every day.. Doing things that don't really come natural to you.. things that you really would just rather not do..

Then, she misses doing something for you which allows you to justify not doing something for her... It becomes a downward spiral of keeping score. You certainly don't want to be putting more into the marriage than you are getting out of it now do you!

Marriage is not work when you love each other.

It's only work when you don't love each other.


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## TimeHeals

hambone said:


> Your perspective is that it allows your spouse to take advantage of you....



It is? I had no idea that was my perspective 

I thought my perspective is that 'love' isn't all about one's ego, and that marriage involves all kinds of emotional states (life does, really), and that describing "love" as "wanting to make somebody happy" is making it about your ego, and it sounds helplessly naive, and among other things... heavily discounts important things like healthy copng skills and character 

I figure most of the people who get divorced thought that the fact that they loved the person they married was enough, and they were all wrong


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## arbitrator

hambone said:


> There's a happy medium in there..
> 
> My wife knows that subtle hints just don't work with me..
> 
> *I am not offended by straight talk. She knows how to get her point across to me without getting all up in my face and demanding that I do something..*
> 
> I love my wife and am more than happy to give her what ever she needs.
> 
> That said, it is not fair to gripe and moan about stuff you didn't specify.


*Verily, Ham! As my old man always intoned, "you can always draw more flies with honey than you can with vinegar."

Unless, of course, we'd pee'd him off enough to kick our ever-loving a$$!
*


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## hambone

arbitrator said:


> *Verily, Ham! As my old man always intoned, "you can always draw more flies with honey than you can with vinegar."
> 
> Unless, of course, we'd pee'd him off enough to kick our ever-loving a$$!
> *


That is my wife's philosophy exactly... I've heard her say that a million times...'You can get more with honey than with vinegar".


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## hambone

TimeHeals said:


> It is? I had no idea that was my perspective
> 
> I thought my perspective is that 'love' isn't all about one's ego, and that marriage involves all kinds of emotional states (life does, really), and that describing "love" as "wanting to make somebody happy" is making it about your ego, and it sounds helplessly naive, and among other things... heavily discounts important things like healthy copng skills and character
> 
> I figure most of the people who get divorced thought that the fact that they loved the person they married was enough, and they were all wrong


LOL... the hopelessly naive part is people thinking they are in love when they are just in like.. Most people don't seem know what true love is. 

You kinda of missed my point. I was comparing getting married for what your spouse will do for you... as opposed to being blissfully in love and wanting to do for your spouse. 

When you aren't in love, just acting like you are in love.. having to work at it every day is terribly taxing... and tiring and impossible to maintain over the long haul.

When you are hard down in love... being married is not work. It's easy and extremely satisfying. 

I've been in both situations.


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## nuclearnightmare

I do think that cheating is very reliable evidence that the WS does NOT love the BS. Which is why I think trying to R is usually a waste of time.


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## sidney2718

hambone said:


> There's a happy medium in there..
> 
> My wife knows that subtle hints just don't work with me..
> 
> I am not offended by straight talk. She knows how to get her point across to me without getting all up in my face and demanding that I do something..
> 
> I love my wife and am more than happy to give her what ever she needs.
> 
> That said, it is not fair to gripe and moan about stuff you didn't specify.


I agree. The problem isn't with one side or the other. An amazing number of married folks don't really know how to communicate with their spouses. Just reading their stories tells you that..


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## lordmayhem

sidney2718 said:


> I seriously think that many spouses DO try to communicate their needs but are either not taken seriously or their spouse is in denial. There are subjects some spouses simply won't discuss. That's a problem that alpha males sometimes have.
> 
> And divorce is sometimes not an option. The most common case is the wife with no independent means and no way to pay a lawyer. Another case is that of children who will now live in a broken home. And there are other cases too.
> 
> Sadly, life isn't always simple. In fact, it is almost never simple.


Divorce is not an option, so cheating is. 

:bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag:


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## treyvion

sidney2718 said:


> I agree. The problem isn't with one side or the other. An amazing number of married folks don't really know how to communicate with their spouses. Just reading their stories tells you that..


No they do. Actions speak volumes. I guess they think the spouse will stand in even after being betrayed badly and not feel their relationship has been devalued.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## azteca1986

sidney2718 said:


> And divorce is sometimes not an option. The most common case is the wife with no independent means and no way to pay a lawyer. * Another case is that of children who will now live in a broken home.* And there are other cases too.
> 
> Sadly, life isn't always simple. In fact, it is almost never simple.


Ahh yes. Cheating for the sake of the children. What better way to endorse a person's Mum/Dad of the Year credentials.


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## Horizon

And the obvious bit - WS follows familiar pattern as analysed here but continues to lie about what happened. Says all the right things - or so she thought.

It was nothing
It was just sex
It was all fantasy
You can't believe all you read in those e-mails
You are interpreting it your way - putting your spin on it
You should have come to me and let me explain
I now know what i could have lost
He meant nothing to me
I tried to tell you but you wouldn't listen
I want to work on us
I can guarantee you it will never happen again
I want to rediscover that intimacy with you
I want us to do it together....

(actual quotes)

Nothing happened, nothing was resolved - just blame shifted and minimised the f**k out of it. Wasn't even a false recon back then - just some dopey idea in my head; a title, a label to give to zero. Look at the actions, always look at the actions.


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## Forest

TimeHeals said:


> She 'needed' somebody who didn't know her or her annoying habits to tell her how amazing everything she does is and to at least pretend everything she is worried about is terribly important
> 
> She even met her OM here. She could be trolling for OM2 right now, and if you "play your cards right", sprinkle a few compliments, agree with her, hit 'like' on all of her posts, well... ABARA CADABARA and "Open Sesame!" Tell ME how interesting I am, and sex follows.
> 
> She gave you a recipe for opening the secret cave which is denied to all those who do not adore her properly.


On the subject of "things WS did with AP" I'll bet this a effing universal.

The wayward is desperate for that attention and those compliments that seem to have waned. Surely, there's a variety of reasons for that -- all the way from complacency by the BS to the WS slowly becoming someone who doesn't really deserve the attention and compliments because his/her behavior is overbearing or hateful.

Now, lets have the AP enter the picture. Ah, the office, with its best behaviour by all, perfect makeup and snappy clothes. "Why can't my spouse be always perfect like this?"

"You like my outfit? Tell me more, more!" Why sure, nothing difficult in that. I can get some action at lunch. No kids to watch, no one to have to cohabit with and see when he needs a shave or her hair is flat and tangled.

No Strings. No Commitment at all, just sex? Yes, you do look nice, bet you've been hitting the gym, eh?

Shallow? Worse. Has all the depth of Huck Finn's raft.


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## lordmayhem

Forest said:


> On the subject of "things WS did with AP" I'll bet this a effing universal.
> 
> The wayward is desperate for that attention and those compliments that seem to have waned. Surely, there's a variety of reasons for that -- all the way from complacency by the BS to the WS slowly becoming someone who doesn't really deserve the attention and compliments because his/her behavior is overbearing or hateful.
> 
> Now, lets have the AP enter the picture. Ah, the office, with its best behaviour by all, perfect makeup and snappy clothes. "Why can't my spouse be always perfect like this?"
> 
> "You like my outfit? Tell me more, more!" Why sure, nothing difficult in that. I can get some action at lunch. No kids to watch, no one to have to cohabit with and see when he needs a shave or her hair is flat and tangled.
> 
> No Strings. No Commitment at all, just sex? Yes, you do look nice, bet you've been hitting the gym, eh?
> 
> Shallow? Worse. Has all the depth of Huck Finn's raft.


I would say that's true in some cases. But there are also other instances where the BS does give the attention that the WS wanted. I know I did. However, the thing is, its taken for granted. The old "You're supposed to say that, you're my husband". 

Therefore, the attention from the BS is largely ignored or taken for granted. Yet, when the OM/OW says the same exact things....it's music to their ears. This applies not only to infidelity, but to other situations in marriage as well. A husband can tell his wife one thing, she won't believe it or do it, but if her friends say it....well, it must be true.

Whoever said "flattery will get you nowhere" was an idiot. It gets you everywhere.


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## arbitrator

lordmayhem said:


> *I would say that's true in some cases. But there are also other instances where the BS does give the attention that the WS wanted. I know I did. However, the thing is, its taken for granted. The old "You're supposed to say that, you're my husband".
> 
> Therefore, the attention from the BS is largely ignored or taken for granted. Yet, when the OM/OW says the same exact things....it's music to their ears. This applies not only to infidelity, but to other situations in marriage as well. A husband can tell his wife one thing, she won't believe it or do it, but if her friends say it....well, it must be true.
> 
> Whoever said "flattery will get you nowhere" was an idiot. It gets you everywhere.*


*Ka-Ching!*


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## hambone

arbitrator said:


> *Ka-Ching!*


I have always believed that you can make someone like you... you can't make someone love you... It just happens.


So, when the BS says those things... to the WS who is no longer in love with them... it just doesn't have any effect.

When OM/OW says the same thing... and the WS hears them... it just amps up the dopamine!


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## treyvion

hambone said:


> I have always believed that you can make someone like you... you can't make someone love you... It just happens.
> 
> 
> So, when the BS says those things... to the WS who is no longer in love with them... it just doesn't have any effect.
> 
> When OM/OW says the same thing... and the WS hears them... it just amps up the dopamine!


What is love? A dreamy infatuation where you want to take up for someone?


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## treyvion

lordmayhem said:


> I would say that's true in some cases. But there are also other instances where the BS does give the attention that the WS wanted. I know I did. However, the thing is, its taken for granted. The old "You're supposed to say that, you're my husband".
> 
> Therefore, the attention from the BS is largely ignored or taken for granted. Yet, when the OM/OW says the same exact things....it's music to their ears. This applies not only to infidelity, but to other situations in marriage as well. A husband can tell his wife one thing, she won't believe it or do it, but if her friends say it....well, it must be true.
> 
> Whoever said "flattery will get you nowhere" was an idiot. It gets you everywhere.


It works for OM but not BH because they are "attracted" to the OM. "Attraction" can be as simple as the appropriate clothing and correct swagger on a body type they like.


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## xakulax

treyvion said:


> *What is love?* A dreamy infatuation where you want to take up for someone?



*Biological basis of love and lust *



*Serotonin* effects of being infatuated have a similar chemical appearance to obsessive-compulsive disorder; which could explain why people experiencing infatuation cannot think of anyone else.


*Oxycontin* bonding molecule (hormone): high levels correlate with strong pair-bonding. 


*Vasopressin *monogamy molecule (hormone) responsible for creating intense loving memories during passionate situations.


*Endorphin *calming natural pain killer levels increase in response to touch, pleasing visual stimulus (as a smile), or after having positive thoughts. thought to be the main attachment chemical in longterm relationships.

*DHEA *most abundant hormone increases sex drive and influences who one finds attractive.


*Testosterone *- masculinization hormone (high testosterone-laden males tend to bond with high estrogen-laden females) *levels drop in men who are involved in long-term monogamous *relationships. functions as the main sex drive hormone for both men and women. 


*Estrogen* - feminization hormone (high estrogen-laden females tend to bond with high testosterone-laden males)


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## LongWalk

Or as Sandfly put it "love is chemicals masquerading as choice."

Or something like that.

There are circumstances in which I can sympathize with the cheater. If a narcissistic and manipulative spouse has belittled and denigrated their spouse, so that they are so down trodden that they lose themselves, an affair can be the exit.

Hard to feel sorry for a BS who is a nasty bully.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## treyvion

xakulax said:


> *Biological basis of love and lust *
> 
> 
> 
> *Serotonin* effects of being infatuated have a similar chemical appearance to obsessive-compulsive disorder; which could explain why people experiencing infatuation cannot think of anyone else.
> 
> 
> *Oxycontin* bonding molecule (hormone): high levels correlate with strong pair-bonding.
> 
> 
> *Vasopressin *monogamy molecule (hormone) responsible for creating intense loving memories during passionate situations.
> 
> 
> *Endorphin *calming natural pain killer levels increase in response to touch, pleasing visual stimulus (as a smile), or after having positive thoughts. thought to be the main attachment chemical in longterm relationships.
> 
> *DHEA *most abundant hormone increases sex drive and influences who one finds attractive.
> 
> 
> *Testosterone *- masculinization hormone (high testosterone-laden males tend to bond with high estrogen-laden females) *levels drop in men who are involved in long-term monogamous *relationships. functions as the main sex drive hormone for both men and women.
> 
> 
> *Estrogen* - feminization hormone (high estrogen-laden females tend to bond with high testosterone-laden males)


Which illustrates how important it is to drive a high level of lust within your partner. It may be more important than acts of service even for keeping them.


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## Healer

lordmayhem said:


> Whoever said "flattery will get you nowhere" was an idiot. It gets you everywhere.


Unless of course you're the LS.


----------



## mahike

Something my wife said to me one day and then the look of horror on her face.

you know you would like him you have a great deal in common.

That was the worst thing a WS could ever say


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## xakulax

mahike said:


> Something my wife said to me one day and then the look of horror on her face.
> 
> you know you would like him you have a great deal in common.
> 
> That was the worst thing a WS could ever say




So she cheated on you with someone who reminds her of you 


Cheater logic :scratchhead:


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## arbitrator

xakulax said:


> *So she cheated on you with someone who reminds her of you!
> 
> 
> Cheater logic* :scratchhead:


*Oh, that logic just greatly follows the good old line of "that as long as the the OM is either built just like the BH, or has a personality like him; and reminds the WW of such, then she feels that the BH won't even mind, in the absolute least, when the OM is off literally banging her brains out!"*


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## Squeakr

I was told that we had a lot in common and were a lot alike.

Really????? SMH!!! SO if we were so alike, then why would you leave me to hook up with the same person essentially when you weren't happy with what you currently have??? Makes absolutely no sense. They literally had nothing on me but were so much better than me. LOL Makes perfect sense now.


----------



## hambone

arbitrator said:


> *Oh, that logic just greatly follows the good old line of "that as long as the the OM is either built just like the BH, or has a personality like him; and reminds the WW of such, then she feels that the BH won't even mind, in the absolute least, when the OM is off literally banging her brains out!"*


That's some stupid logic.


----------



## Forest

lordmayhem said:


> I would say that's true in some cases. But there are also other instances where the BS does give the attention that the WS wanted. I know I did. However, the thing is, its taken for granted. The old "You're supposed to say that, you're my husband".
> 
> Therefore, the attention from the BS is largely ignored or taken for granted. Yet, when the OM/OW says the same exact things....it's music to their ears. This applies not only to infidelity, but to other situations in marriage as well. A husband can tell his wife one thing, she won't believe it or do it, but if her friends say it....well, it must be true.
> 
> Whoever said "flattery will get you nowhere" was an idiot. It gets you everywhere.


Excellent, excellent observation. Couldn't be more right about the flattery. That is one thing that just drives me into a fiery rampage. A BS can do just about everything right, yet still get trampled over just because some buttery tongued weasel spits out some compliments.

For a BS who is there putting in the heavy work to be forsaken for a few cheap compliments is just so inequitable.:rant:


----------



## sidney2718

xakulax said:


> So she cheated on you with someone who reminds her of you
> 
> 
> Cheater logic :scratchhead:


Very common. That's the look and feel of someone she loves.


----------



## sidney2718

Squeakr said:


> I was told that we had a lot in common and were a lot alike.
> 
> Really????? SMH!!! SO if we were so alike, then why would you leave me to hook up with the same person essentially when you weren't happy with what you currently have??? Makes absolutely no sense. They literally had nothing on me but were so much better than me. LOL Makes perfect sense now.


It does make a kind of twisted sense. I know of a case where the WW married the OM that looked like her husband. She ended up divorcing him for some of the same reasons she divorced her first husband.


----------



## treyvion

treyvion said:


> "**** messiah", so we have one of the most popular cucks on the internet, here on TAM? How do you live through the humiliation of being forced into the **** position? A neighbor? Thats very close to home. He has no idea how freeing and how much dignity and self respect returns after you remove a person who is doing your life bad, out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good words.


----------

