# At a loss as in "how to fix it"



## Agresta1980

Sorry for the long post.... need advice

My husband and I have been married for just over a month. We've been together for almost 4 years. We have a combined family, 4 of my own kids and 4 of his with only 5 still in the home. 

There is so many things in the past of our relationship that just linger at times. Those things have gotten better over time but still rear their ugly head from time to time. 

The things that happen that we are not able to overcome....
He has a nasty habit of when we get into a disagreement he goes from 0-100 almost instantly. It is like a light switch. This happens no matter how I handle the disagreement. A good example is yesterday. 

He was looking at our bank account, he never does this unless he is looking to start nit picking and start a fight. We aren't in the best financial place right now due to some unforeseen circumstances recently. I was at work and he was texting me asking question after question. I felt that he was being abrasive so I called him. I wanted to be sure I wasn't reading the messages incorrectly and wanted to avoid an argument or misunderstanding. 

I called and asked him what he was doing and asked if he was looking for something particular. He got instantly defensive (which is the norm). I just said I called to be sure I wasn't misunderstanding and I felt he was abrasive in his texts, and I answered his questions on the account. He immediately started saying things like he feels he cant ask about the account and I always get an attitude and that he wasn't being abrasive. Then he hung up on me.

When I got home, after a very anxiety ridden drive knowing what I was going home to, I told him I did not want to argue and that I don't believe he was being abrasive (now) in his texts but that's why I called because I wasn't sure and wanted to make sure there was no miscommunication. So instead of getting upset and striking back in text I called. He proceeded to focus in on him feeling like he cant ask questions, he wasn't abrasive or defensive, that I am the one being abrasive and I am lying about something and hes going to find out what it is. **** The start of the "fit"*****

Now that hes in "his reality" theres nothing I can say or do that will help. I know this so I walk away. I went back a few minutes later and calmly told him that I did not want to argue and that if he felt I was abrasive then I apologize. *** I know I wasnt but I do my best to acknowledge his feelings even if they are unfounded****

He went on and on how hes going to get his own account and I have wronged him in this way and that way. Again I tried to tell him I simply called so I wasn't misunderstanding his tone, I told him I will answer any questions he has. I also told him I would be happy to give him the "bill book" so he can see where we are because in his mind I just run around spending all kinds of money when I really pay bills and continuously move money and bills around to pay everything. Nope in "his mind" now we have moved on to how horrible I treat him. 

So I just leave the room and go about the night taking care of the kids, making dinner, laundry and such. He acts like I don't exist..... so I just leave it alone.

Then starts the you did this and that, things I have not done or said. He manipulates what I actually said into whatever works for his anger, he says I did things I never did. and then he tries to blame me for the fictitious things he makes up and uses those as the reason why he is mad. Which he also uses as the reason he starts calling me names, telling me hes sorry he ever met me, I was the worst decision he ever made, and that hes leaving and hes done with the relationship among other mean and nasty things. 

The above example is how every single disagreement goes. It does not matter how I handle it or approach a subject. I am not sure what else to do. I will say it has gotten somewhat better then it used to be but it is not acceptable on any level. 

What do I do?


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## Agresta1980

I should add that this leads to the fact that there is never a solution to anything because the argument twists and turns so out of control I am left wondering what even happened. And the fact that there is never a solution to anything EVER just causes more anxiety and instability.


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## Steve2.0

Go buy and read "when i say no, i feel guilty"

It will help answer his questions and have a more focused conversation without him being able to manipulate you.

Sounds like a pretty tough situation... Either "be a man and own the finances 100% or stay out of it"


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## purplesunsets

Wow. I'm so sorry for your situation! Your story has struck so many chords in me and I feel so incredibly sad for you. It seems like you have to walk on eggshells because of his temper. 

Honestly, if I were in your situation, I would demand he get anger management and work through these issues. He doesn't know how to handle problems in a mature way. His communication and problem solving styles are very defensive, which can eat away at a marriage. It will only get worse and worse until you feel like you can't say anything without it becoming a problem.

I've both been that person with uncontrollable anger and been with someone who is like that. From your perspective, it's very frustrating and quite scary (even if you know he won't hurt you, it still causes your cortisol to spike, which is not good for anyone on a regular basis). I had anger issues that came to a head in my marriage. I worked through it with CBT, meditation, and yoga. It's possible to go from a very toxic style of communicating and problem solving to quite healthy, but the person needs to be willing to do the hard work. And it certainly was a lot of work, probably over a year of slip ups and falling back into old habits. It helped that my ex DID NOT ENGAGE AT ALL! This was his style, and although it's not healthy either, it helps with anger issues.

So, yeah. I would say, tell him he has a problem and it's not acceptable. He needs to work through this. And keep doing what you're doing....but disengage just a bit more. Don't respond at all. Stay quiet until you can see he's calm. The calmer you are, the more obvious his anger becomes to him (if he is even SLIGHTLY self-aware).


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## Yeswecan

Your H needs anger management classes. You both need to handle the bills together. Then nothing is left to question. And, work is a horrible place for either to text about things like bills. In short, text back, busy and will talk when I get home.


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## Agresta1980

Thank you for the replies.

I have put my foot down on several occasions and told him enough is enough. And he concedes and says that he is wrong for calling me names and saying harmful things. But it does not change.

He believes EVERYTHING is my fault. 

I have offered to hand the bills and accounts over and let him handle them. He wont take them..... because then what would he argue about? He would find something but this is a "thing" for him

I have disengaged, completely at times. That does not help. He actually will continue to keep pushing and pushing himself into a rage. I have approached differently from calm and collected to angry and mad along with everything in between.

He refuses counseling, because we cant afford it, but when we could he refused completely. 

He manipulates and he does it well. I have only recently had the light bulb go on for me of how he maneuvers everything. 

I am just at a loss.


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## chillymorn69

Divide the bills fairly and have seperate accounts. Have a budget meeting/ discission every month to make sure your both keeping up with bills.

As for his attitude or personality disorder don't take any bullshat. When hes acting that way just say listen your being unreasonable if you can't calm down and be reasonable then I'm thinking we should just part ways I don't want to spend the rest of my life or the next 10 mins with you when you act this way! 

I'm not someone you can bully! So whats it going to be are you going to respect me and act reasonable or we calling it quits?

Don't answer think about what I said we can talk about it after it sets in because I am at my breaking point!


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## Uptown

Agresta, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., verbal abuse, lack of impulse control, instability, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, controlling demands, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your H exhibits a full-blown disorder (only a professional can determine that). Rather, I'm suggesting that you may be seeing moderate to strong traits of BPD.



> He from 0-100 almost instantly. It is like a light switch.


I note that _"Intense, inappropriate anger"_ is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. If your H is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong and persistent traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. 

Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. It occurs so quickly that, as you say, it seems like he has flipped a switch in his mind.



> It does not matter how I handle it or approach a subject.


Agresta, that is to be expected if he is a BPDer. Because his anger can be triggered so quickly, it does not matter how you "approach a subject." Moreover, catching a BPDer in a calm quiet mood does not help at all when you are seeking a rational discussion of any sensitive issue. You have only 10 seconds before he erupts in a temper tantrum. There are not many issues that a couple can resolve in 10 seconds.



> Then starts the you did this and that, things I have not done or said.


If he is a narcissist or sociopath, he is lying in an effort to manipulate you. If he is a BPDer, however, he likely believes most of the outrageous allegations coming out of his mouth. And five hours or five days later, when he's claiming the exact opposite, he likely will believe that nonsense too. 

Like that of a young child, a BPDer's perception of your intentions and motivations is heavily dictated by whatever intense feeling he is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT. The abused spouses of BPDers call this thought distortion -- which is seen in nearly every argument -- "rewriting history."



> He starts calling me names, telling me hes sorry he ever met me, I was the worst decision he ever made.


Agresta, you are describing the all-or-nothing (dichotomous) thinking that BPDers and young children rely on. If your H were a narcissist or sociopath, he would be incapable of loving you. If he is a BPDer, however, he very likely loves you intensely -- albeit in the immature way that a young child is able to love. 

As noted above, a BPDer is able to flip -- in only ten seconds -- from Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (devaluing you). And, five hours later, he can flip back again just as quickly. These rapid flips arise from "black-white thinking." Like a young child, a BPDer is so emotionally immature that he is unable to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate). 

He therefore has great difficulty tolerating ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships. His subconscious solves this problem by placing the conflicting feeling (e.g., love) far out of reach of his conscious mind. In this way, he only has to deal with one strong feeling at a time.

The result is that he will categorize everyone close to him as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And he will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action.

Importantly, if he is a BPDer, this behavior does NOT imply he does not love you. Rather, it implies he is too immature to handle strong conflicting feelings simultaneously. You will see this same all-or-nothing behavior in a four year old who adores Mommy while she's bringing out the toys but, in a few seconds, will flip to hating Mommy when she takes one toy away.



> What do I do?


If you determine you're seeing strong BPD traits, an important issue is how long this has been going on. At issue, then, would be whether you're seeing a temporary flareup of BPD traits or, instead, a persistent problem. With regard to that important distinction, I note that BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet exhibits BPD traits to some degree -- and to varying degrees at various stages of life. 

During early childhood, for example, we all behave like BPDers 24/7. And many of us start behaving that way again, for several years, when our hormones are raging during the teens. These "flareups" of BPD traits to strong levels can occur again -- for a year or two -- whenever there is a strong hormone change, as can occur during perimenopause or following a severe head injury. 

Yet, when strong BPD traits are a _persistent_ lifetime problem, they do not disappear for years at a time. Instead, they typically start showing themselves very strongly at puberty and will entirely disappear only during the intense infatuation period, which typically lasts 4 to 6 months. The traits disappear during that courtship period because the BPDer's infatuation convinces him that he has met the nearly perfect woman who has arrived to save him from unhappiness. 

In this way, the infatuation holds his two fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. Of course, those fears quickly return when the infatuation start evaporating -- at which time his partner will start triggering those fears and seeing the resulting anger. 

I therefore recommend that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and the kids are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if most seem to apply strongly to your H's behavior.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells and raises questions, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Agresta.


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## Laurentium

Agresta1980 said:


> What do I do?


After reading your description, I am pretty sure you won't solve this with a book, an "anger management" class, a different way of managing finances, or a few tips from an online forum. 

It's going to be either counseling or splitting up, in the end, is my guess. You might be able to use the ultimatum of splitting up to get him into counseling.


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## Agresta1980

Update:

Last night after I arrived home and my husband arrived. He was acting as though everything was ok. I was cooking dinner and getting on of our girls settled down from soccer practice. I stated to him in a calm and even tone, things are not ok and I would like to talk after dinner.

I sat down after dinner and began the conversation with "we have got to come to some resolutions and changes here together or we need to make the decision to part ways now." I further went on to tell him that I cannot continue to live this way.

I let him go on and on about how I did not do this or that, or I didn't handle something correctly. I let him go on and on and only spoke up when he was going down a road of "his reality" to correct and clarify. I sat back and owned my faults (even the ones perceived), I stated how I felt and what I would be wiling to do to be more aware of my tone and how I say things. 

I do not necessary think I did anything wrong but I will own I can be abrasive at times without any real intention. I am a very straight to the point and matter of fact person. And I realize that by being that way I can be intimidating to approach and talk to. I have never had an issue owning who I am. I make a conscience effort to control my tone and how I come across on a DAILY basis.

After he was done rehashing things several times over, I stated my feelings and how his actions and words affect me. His response was ok. I realized he cannot and will not own his behavior and verbalize what he is willing to do to change it, because hes not willing to. 

I told him that open communication was a must..... trigger the "switch"

He went on and on about how he has to process things and he cant just converse like I do and he has to think about it. So I again stated that I felt there was not open communication. ****Enter name calling and threats and the same old crap as always****

I got up and walked away and told him when hes ready to continue the reasonable conversation to come get me. 

The last thing I said before I walked out of the room was that I find it very unreasonable of him that the conversation went completely fine when it revolved around his opinion of my wrong doings but went south the moment it came time for him to own his wrong doings. 

UPTOWN: I very much feel that you are correct to an extent, I believe this is a combination of BPD and Narcissism. In reading (and I have done a lot lately) I have found he meets many traits on both.

CHILLY: I believe in traditional marriage, I will not separate bills and other things. We are either all in or all out. I believe in communication and our lives being one. I will not feel like a roommate in a marriage. But you are right the only option here is putting my foot down.

LAUREN: I agree, I believe we are at a severe cross road here. Sadly.

Thank you for the responses, it helps tremendously to just know I can vent and talk, gives me the strength to handle the problem. Finally.


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## BarbedFenceRider

You need to look up negative cycles. They are common and take some training to get the communication correctly to advert them. Maybe a counselor can help you establish a mediated session and then deal with the negative cycles you guys are ending up in....


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## Betrayedone

Your relationship is heading down a bad path......with him leading the way. Unless he gets his head straight and decides this is where he wants to be you two have no chance of success. How was he the 4 years you were together?


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## aine

Record him with your smart phone the next few times. Then attempt to sit and talk with him again. YOu will then have the evidence of what he is saying, etc. He needs to be confronted with the reality of what he is doing to you.

If he is unwilling to sort himself out, (suggest counselling or therapy) then tell him you cannot nor will not continue to be married to him.

I would also suggest you consider listening to podcasts on Love and Respect by Dr Emerson Eggeriches (find them online). The problem is some men cannot handle strong women and feel that they are being talked down to (my H is one of them). I am a very open and sometimes abrupt person, no beating around the bush for me. My H comes from a culture where respect is very important so that approach doesn't work. Men need respect, I think that might be his issue but he is not sure how to verbalize it so he is nit picking and trying to find fault.


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## personofinterest

It's always good to clean up your own side of the street. It is good you are willing to look at yourself.

That said, it is not your job to manage him. It is not your job to twist into a pretzel to tiptoe across his particular magic communication tightrope. It is not on you to discover his every unknowable trigger and avoid them like walking on eggshells.

It's just not.

You do everything you can to control YOU. The rest is on him. Period.

I'd tell him you are NOT going to sit down and discuss this. You love him, this is hurting you, and you are making an appointment on X day for marriage counseling. He has 2 chances to attend with you. On the third strike, you are separating.

I lived like this for nearly 2 decades. You CANNOT magically become a "good enough" person to change him. He is controlling, angry, manipulative, and gaslighting. When/if he starts the cycle, leave the room. Do not explain, clarify or coddle. Leave. If he follows you around to "talk," take your kids and go to McDonalds or the park or somewhere for an hour or so. If he starts in when you come back, pack you and your kids a bag and stay the night at a hotel.

Do not engage.


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## KungFuJoe

Ultimately, you know the guy better than any of us do. You sound rational and logical so I would suggest using your gut...do you think the guy can change or is this who he is? Has he always been this way or is it just since the financial hardship?

If he has always been like this...

...maybe not what you want to hear, but I have to first say...how difficult would it be to leave him? I'm not saying relationships can't be fixed (my marriage certainly didn't start out smelling like roses) but your situation sounds REALLY bad.

If one were to ask me what is the KEY to a good relationship...it's being able to communicate and the ability to express your thoughts and feelings to your partner and feel like they understand you. All other things (finances, sex, etc) can be overcome if you have this ONE thing.

But it sounds like you don't have that one thing...and in my opinion, that will make things extremely difficult.

I've seen too many relationships where the couple can't stand each other but they stick together because of kids, or fear of being alone, or because it just becomes their norm....and they are miserable. Absolutely miserable.

If this is something new...then it does sound like being newly married along with financial struggles is putting severe stress on the guy. If he's a man who thinks he's responsible for the financial security of a household, this could be hitting him especially hard. I would focus on that with him...maybe try to discuss this aspect with him and make him understand that just because he's a man, doesn't mean he has to shoulder the entire financial burden mentally. You guys are a team and you'll get through this together but you won't if he shuts you out of ever discussion. I would also strongly suggest couples therapy...sometimes it's hard for a man to talk to his wife about things like this because a man isn't supposed to scared or fearful...he's just supposed to get things done and if he can't, he's a failure. It's a bull**** way of thinking, but hey...that's what society teaches us. A third person would be extremely helpful in this situation because he'll tell the therapist things he would never say to your face.


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## arbitrator

* @Agresta1980 ~ Either your H graciously agrees to submit to marriage counseling with you, and anger management counseling on his own, or you need to get out of this relationship immediately!

No spouse should ever treat their partner the way that you've been treated! Period!*


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