# Attachment anxiety destroying my marriage



## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

So, my marriage has been on the rocks for several years now, after what I at least felt to be a long and happy relationship/marriage. It started when I lost my job and my dad in a relatively short time frame, and then completely cratered after the birth of my son about a year later and my becoming a SAHD.

While I posted the question a while ago regarding becoming less 'needy' and more emotionally independent/self-reliant/self-contained, today something I've known for a while finally clicked - all of that is a result of my having an anxious attachment style. 

My wife, on the other hand, has an avoidant attachment style. She is the opposite of 'needy.' She is fiercely independent, not needing or, at least, wanting to need anyone else in life. She spends a lot of her life trying to get *away* from other people, and she definitely gets easily overwhelmed by 'needy' people like myself. She's exhausted and frustrated by me, and I feel totally anxious and disconnected from her (she may feel disconnected, too, but being disconnected doesn't bother her like it bothers me). 

She has said, repeatedly, that she loves me, but finds me incredibly difficult to be with. So she goes off to be independent, which in turn increases my own anxiety, and round and round we go.

And I have to admit, I hate how I am being with her, I hate how the anxiety eats at me every day, and I hate how my anxious attachment style impacts all of my relationships. 

I realize that IC is certainly needed. I was in IC for a while last year, but I don't feel like I made much progress on that front. Are there any strategies or resources anyone can recommend for trying to repair that sort of marriage?

I'm trying to get to finishing His Needs Her Needs (I have a couple of parenting books I need to read right now as well), and my wife even indicated that she would be willing to do the 'Needs' worksheet together, but the idea of spending 15 hours a week with an anxious attachment style person is really not appealing to her (not to mention, she feels that she already has her plate incredibly full trying to maintain her position as primary breadwinner and being a good mom). At least, not until I can stop reacting from my anxiety. She would really like me to get my relationship anxiety under control better so she can feel more comfortable 'opening up'.

Right now, she said her needs would be met if I would just put my arm around her more and ask her to tell me about her day and her life. And then to listen, without getting anxious and making it all about me or our relationship. 

Given that, does anyone have any insights into this sort of problem?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I have heard that 15 hours a week number a few times. I have not read the book.

I have to say that 15 hours a week for a spouse seems pretty easy to me. There are 168 hours per week. That's less than 9% of the available hours in a week in order to maintain a marriage.

It just seems incredible to me that anyone could consider that to be too much.

Another way of looking at it. Sleep for 8 hours a night, and work for 60 hours a week, leaves 52 hours a week. Of that 52 hours it just seems to me it should be possible to spend 15 hours with a spouse without a problem. And most people who claim they can't find the time claim they don't sleep 8 hours a night, and only a few claim they work more than 60 hours a week.

It's a matter of prioritizing. During that 52 hours what else has more importance? Every hour it is someone else?

I just don't buy it.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Dazedconfuzed said:


> Right now, she said her needs would be met if I would just put my arm around her more and ask her to tell me about her day and her life. And then to listen, without getting anxious and making it all about me or our relationship.
> 
> Given that, does anyone have any insights into this sort of problem?


I don't have any experience with attachment anxiety and I admit my style is more similar to your wife's. I've had to give up some real close female friends because I felt they were just too needy. Likewise I adore cats and refrain from other pets because they're so much more independent. I can't stand it when my partner gets all needy and wants to be held and sweet talked. Even if satisfying his needs at that point would only take about 10mins of my time, I'm worried that if I respond positively he'll do it more often. Ugh. 

What I'm not understanding is why is what you've written above so difficult for you to do? Why do you have a hard time just holding her and listening instead of bringing the focus on you?


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

I feel for you. I had this setup with my ex. She was far into an avoidant style whereas I was anxious like you. She complained of how needy I was and many of her behaviors just exacerbated that anxiety in me. (No one else I've dated has found me needy, so I'm guessing the style match was closer.) Likewise I drove her insane by wanting to talk to her or see her. Having such a mismatch of attachment styles is not good. It can be very damaging to the person with the anxious attachment style. I'm not sure it's ultimately workable. How do you compromise with such extremes, even if both people are actually willing? It's more likely that the avoidant person will just decide that the anxious person has unreasonable needs, not that it's a shared issue that both need to address.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It sounds like it would help if she would first meet your need for security and reassurance, and then you meet her need for a hug and asking about her day. 

You might explain to her that if she meets your needs first, it will actually mean less work for her. Because you will calm down and relax quicker, which ultimately frees up more of her time.


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> I have heard that 15 hours a week number a few times. I have not read the book.
> 
> I have to say that 15 hours a week for a spouse seems pretty easy to me. There are 168 hours per week. That's less than 9% of the available hours in a week in order to maintain a marriage.
> 
> ...


Well, I wouldn't have believed it myself, until I had a kid.

Three days a week, my wife gets home from work around 5:30-6:00. We have dinner and a short amount of family time until 7:30-8:00, when we start the bedtime routine for our son. Bedtime can take up to 2 hours (usually around 1.5 hours) as my son has, since the day he was born, a really hard time going to sleep.

By the time he is asleep, my wife has usually fallen asleep with him (if she puts him to bed), or she is in bed going to sleep herself (if I put him to sleep). And I still have to go downstairs to clean up from dinner and get the house ready for the next day. 

Two days a week, I get home from my office around 7:30, meaning I have just enough time to find something to eat real quick and then put my son to bed (since I havent seen him all day, that's a good way to be productive and spend a little time with him). 

We are more able to do things on the weekend (and sometimes Friday night, if my wife drinks caffeine so she can stay up past her bedtime, but that's unusual, and it usually leaves her really tired the next day), but weekends are often the only time we can go do things as a family, and the only time my wife has to take care of things for herself as well (not to mention, the household needs don't stop on weekends, so I still need to do a lot of work on weekends, too). 

We have started having lunch together once every week or two, which is a great, if short, way to catch up with each other. Honestly, we have a lot of conversations via text, lol.

Money has been *very* tight in the past few years, so it's difficult to just throw money at a problem to make it go away (which was the go-to solution when we both had high-paying corporate jobs and no kids, lol).


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

soulpotato said:


> I feel for you. I had this setup with my ex. She was far into an avoidant style whereas I was anxious like you. She complained of how needy I was and many of her behaviors just exacerbated that anxiety in me. (No one else I've dated has found me needy, so I'm guessing the style match was closer.) Likewise I drove her insane by wanting to talk to her or see her. Having such a mismatch of attachment styles is not good. It can be very damaging to the person with the anxious attachment style. I'm not sure it's ultimately workable. How do you compromise with such extremes, even if both people are actually willing? It's more likely that the avoidant person will just decide that the anxious person has unreasonable needs, not that it's a shared issue that both need to address.


We made it work - and quite well, I would say - for almost 15 years. 

Then life got very stressful, we had a kid, and we both changed a lot, and what seemed to work really well suddenly went completely south.


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

Keke24 said:


> Even if satisfying his needs at that point would only take about 10mins of my time, I'm worried that if I respond positively he'll do it more often. Ugh.


I'm sure my wife could relate to this, lol.



> What I'm not understanding is why is what you've written above so difficult for you to do? Why do you have a hard time just holding her and listening instead of bringing the focus on you?


It's probably not that hard.

What makes it hard?

Fear, resentment, hurt, mistrust. I'm working on letting that stuff go, not just so I can do things for my wife, but so I can be someone who isn't ruled by his fear, resentment, hurt, and mistrust.

What makes it particularly hard, in this case at least, is I feel like I'm wired to want to 'protect and provide', so it's easy for me to feel like something missing in that area is a failure on my part. So if my wife is complaining about her job and how she wishes we could afford to have her do something more rewarding, it's hard for me to not feel like I'm failing her. If she is concerned about or wants something more regarding our living situation, it's hard for me to not take that personally, as I feel like I'm not always able to help her achieve her goals. 

Or, as in the recent conversation I detailed more in my other thread, when she talks about doing something she really wants to do, I usually hear "...so I will be even more unavailable to spend with you."

In short, it's been hard for me to remain neutral and impersonal in my listening, even though I know that is what most women say they want.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

WilliamM said:


> I have heard that 15 hours a week number a few times. I have not read the book.
> 
> I have to say that 15 hours a week for a spouse seems pretty easy to me. There are 168 hours per week. That's less than 9% of the available hours in a week in order to maintain a marriage.
> 
> ...


Not all couples have the same work schedule. Plus kids. It can get a little difficult depending on circumstances.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Dazedconfuzed said:


> Fear, resentment, hurt, mistrust. I'm working on letting that stuff go, not just so I can do things for my wife, but so I can be someone who isn't ruled by his fear, resentment, hurt, and mistrust.


Where are those feelings stemming from? Past relationships?


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

Keke24 said:


> Where are those feelings stemming from? Past relationships?


I don't think so. Most of those feelings began when my marriage started to collapse, and I believe my natural inclination toward an anxious attachment style exacerbated the problem.

Things between my wife and I have been often cold and strained and tense in recent years, and that has led to a fear-based withdrawal on my part.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Dazedconfuzed said:


> I don't think so. Most of those feelings began when my marriage started to collapse, and I believe my natural inclination toward an anxious attachment style exacerbated the problem.
> 
> Things between my wife and I have been often cold and strained and tense in recent years, and that has led to a fear-based withdrawal on my part.


So is the "attachment anxiety" something that you've figured out with a counselor? Or a self-diagnosis? I ask because I had a brief look at your other thread and some of your posts suggests both you and your wife are aware of your issues. She's on one end, you're on the other however the onus has been placed squarely on your shoulders to address "your problem". If she's on one end, then clearly she has a problem too. Unfortunately the nature of "her problem" is such that she ends up being the one who holds the most power. "Your problem" leaves you scared to end the relationship yet without the threat of leaving, there's not much motivation for a person who doesn't think they have a problem to change.

Quite the limbo going on here.

Where's the middle ground? Why does she have zero interest in working towards a solution? Have you had any marriage counselling? How do you plan to deal with your attachment anxiety? Do you have the capacity to implement the 180?


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

For those unfamiliar with the attachment model, here is a copy pasta from Wikipedia (it's not a great description, but it definitely gets the idea across):



> *Secure*
> Securely attached people tend to agree with the following statements: "It is relatively easy for me to become emotionally close to others. I am comfortable depending on others and having others depend on me. I don't worry about being alone or others not accepting me." This style of attachment usually results from a history of warm and responsive interactions with their attachments. Securely attached people tend to have positive views of themselves and their attachments. They also tend to have positive views of their relationships. Often they report greater satisfaction and adjustment in their relationships than people with other attachment styles. Securely attached people feel comfortable both with intimacy and with independence. Many seek to balance intimacy and independence in their relationship.
> 
> Secure attachment and adaptive functioning are promoted by a caregiver who is emotionally available and appropriately responsive to his or her child's attachment behavior, as well as capable of regulating both his or her positive and negative emotions.
> ...


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

Keke24 said:


> So is the "attachment anxiety" something that you've figured out with a counselor? Or a self-diagnosis?


Mostly self-diagnosis. 

Given my childhood and history, I don't know how I could have avoided developing an insecure/anxious attachment style (unless I went avoidant, I guess), lol. And I definitely see myself in the model. 



> If she's on one end, then clearly she has a problem too.


Undoubtedly. I can only focus on me, though.



> "Your problem" leaves you scared to end the relationship yet without the threat of leaving, there's not much motivation for a person who doesn't think they have a problem to change.


Well, I make her life hell on an ongoing basis, so I wouldn't say she has no motivation, lol.



> Why does she have zero interest in working towards a solution?


She doesn't have zero interest. In fact, she would say is trying as best she can _in ways that work best for her_. A lot of how I approach finding a solution does not work for her.

On top of that, she feels pulled in many directions. She is trying to manage and grow her career (which stresses her out enormously) as she is currently (and may always be) the breadwinner. She is trying to learn all she can about how to be a better mother and more effectively deal with the issues raised by our son. She is trying to find ways to improve her health. And she is also wanting to improve herself and our marriage. 



> Have you had any marriage counselling?


We spent a few months in marriage counseling, then life got in the way for the last month or two. Which actually may be good, because we have an appointment again tomorrow, and I feel like I am more organized in my thinking going back in.



> How do you plan to deal with your attachment anxiety?


Don't know, exactly. Working on improving myself, improving my self-esteem, improving my resilience, getting stronger, being more emotionally independent, etc.



> Do you have the capacity to implement the 180?


I don't know how well the 180 would work on someone who has an avoidant attachment style. You can't 'out-independent' someone like that, lol. 

And I feel like I pretty much withdrew most 'intimacy' from our relationship a while back (I think I have become more 'fearful avoidant'), and it did nothing but further increase the disconnectedness between us (from my standpoint). She has felt like things are as good as can be expected given the circumstances, except for all my personal issues. 

Though if I were fully healthy and independent, who knows, maybe the 180 would actually work. Or, it would be unnecessary. My wife *wants*, more than anything, for me to be more fully healthy and independent in our marriage and in my life. She wants to see me to set my sights on something more than just working on our marriage. If I got to the point that I could authentically run a real 180, my wife would probably feel more relieved than anything.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Dazedconfuzed said:


> I don't know how well the 180 would work on someone who has an avoidant attachment style. You can't 'out-independent' someone like that, lol.
> 
> And I feel like I pretty much withdrew most 'intimacy' from our relationship a while back (I think I have become more 'fearful avoidant'), and it did nothing but further increase the disconnectedness between us (from my standpoint). She has felt like things are as good as can be expected given the circumstances, except for all my personal issues.
> 
> Though if I were fully healthy and independent, who knows, maybe the 180 would actually work. Or, it would be unnecessary. My wife *wants*, more than anything, for me to be more fully healthy and independent in our marriage and in my life. She wants to see me to set my sights on something more than just working on our marriage. If I got to the point that I could authentically run a real 180, my wife would probably feel more relieved than anything.


The 180 is not for her though, it's for you. Not to "out-independent" her but rather to get you to learn to be more independent.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Sometimes I am amazed how many posters psycho analyze their marriages and personalities and use acronyms that they assume we know what they mean. We got through 44 years of marriage by just loving each other and keep each other and our marriage above all else. When monogamy became an issue, we did away with it. When my wife came out as bisexual, we found a girlfriend we could share. We can argue and a minute later resume our conversation. I do not know if it is healthy to break your marriage and spouse down into little defined pieces to the point that you lose the big picture. My wife has a lot of issues coming from an alcoholic abusive father who beat her, sometimes severely.

I love her and I see her and not the psychological labels describing her. I love her and that is all that matters. When she came out as bi, I did not even blink. I was OK with it and she found a way to deal with it it so that she did not have to date women behind my back. My wife did not even call herself bisexual until she was 63. We did not label our marriage as a poly triad. It was just our life. We focused on considering the need and wants of each other in all things we do that affects the other. We were able to communicate and fix whatever was wrong. Although my marriage has been better than I ever dreamed it could me, we had our ups and downs, but instead of trying to find the labels, we simply fixed the problem.

I do wish you good luck. Marriage does not have to be so hard. No one should be unhappily married as many are these days. Since I am not familiar with all of the acronyms you listed or know if your opinion of what they are is correct, I cannot really address that part of your post. Just love each other or get divorced.


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

Vinnydee said:


> I do not know if it is healthy to break your marriage and spouse down into little defined pieces to the point that you lose the big picture. My wife has a lot of issues coming from an alcoholic abusive father who beat her, sometimes severely.


I can see this, to a point. But if you are struggling, and have no idea *why* you are struggling or what to do about it, sometimes it's helpful to try to identify what the actual struggle is about.



> We focused on considering the need and wants of each other in all things we do that affects the other. We were able to communicate and fix whatever was wrong. Although my marriage has been better than I ever dreamed it could me, we had our ups and downs, but instead of trying to find the labels, we simply fixed the problem.


Sounds like my wife and I. Until we started encountering problems that were beyond our ability to fix (both personal, and in our marriage), given the toolsets and knowledge we had up until that point. 



> I do wish you good luck.


Thank you.



> Marriage does not have to be so hard.


Neither does life. But sometimes it occurs like it is, despite our beliefs to the contrary.



> Just love each other or get divorced.


Getting divorced does not guarantee a disappearance of problems. While it may alleviate one set of problems, it can also create a whole new set of problems (and it's arguable which set of problems is worse).

And there is the old adage, "No matter where you go, there you are." It's funny how some problems seem to persist regardless of how many changes we make to our circumstances.


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

Keke24 said:


> The 180 is not for her though, it's for you.


Yeah, I get that. 

Right now, I'm detached as a result of, for lack of a better term, being 'fearful avoidant.' Becoming detached in a fully healthy way would do everyone a lot of good. 

I'm going to have to revisit MMSL here soon.

Funny story - I got a copy of MMSL a few years ago. My wife read it before I even had a chance to. She came back with it and said, "Listen to this guy and follow his advice. I want to be with *that* guy!" lol...


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Dazedconfuzed said:


> We made it work - and quite well, I would say - for almost 15 years.
> 
> Then life got very stressful, we had a kid, and we both changed a lot, and what seemed to work really well suddenly went completely south.


My ex and I were together for 10 years, but stress just adds to the pressure and challenge for both people. It seems to catch up at that point. You may not know how far back her feelings go about your attachment style as she was perhaps better able to deal with the mismatch previously.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Dazedconfuzed said:


> Yeah, I get that.
> 
> Right now, I'm detached as a result of, for lack of a better term, being 'fearful avoidant.' Becoming detached in a fully healthy way would do everyone a lot of good.
> 
> ...


Could you ask her what specific things he recommended really spoke to her?

You might also want to ask her what her ideal man would be like. Or just give her a particular situation, like dinner the other night, and ask her how she would have liked for you to handle it.

And then listen without getting defensive.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

If I am not mistaken you are now a SAHD - you need to find a job - any job - pronto!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> If I am not mistaken you are now a SAHD - you need to find a job - any job - pronto!


He works for an elderly man, helping him with his accounts.


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

soulpotato said:


> My ex and I were together for 10 years, but stress just adds to the pressure and challenge for both people. It seems to catch up at that point. You may not know how far back her feelings go about your attachment style as she was perhaps better able to deal with the mismatch previously.


Wow. Yep, that sounds familiar. And a bit unsettling. 

Especially your last sentence - while I was enjoying my 'dream marriage' and thinking everything was great for all those years, she felt like she was working her a$$ off to accommodate me and my 'issues.' She built up a lot of resentment over the years, though she (of course) never talked about it, and I had no idea until everything broke loose all at once. We had a couple of major sticking points, of course, but I didn't realize that the problem went much deeper than just those obvious conflicts.


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## Dazedconfuzed (Mar 20, 2017)

manfromlamancha said:


> If I am not mistaken you are now a SAHD - you need to find a job - any job - pronto!


Well, not *any* job, of course (at least from her standpoint), since I currently have *a* job (just not a full-time career) but yeah - that is quickly becoming a top priority now. And taking care of everything household-related isn't exactly a slacker life, but I'm hoping to make enough money to be able to hire outside help to cover some of those responsibilities.

For me, *any* job might be the ticket, as I definitely need to start making myself more scarce and building up my own separate life. I figure my working full-time will definitely increase the amount of conflict in our home (unless I pull off a career miracle and take over the breadwinner position) because honestly, there is no way I'm going to be able to keep taking care of the family at the level I do now and also work full-time - it just can't be done. So I'm bracing myself for that, but I gotta start focusing on my individual life for a while. Plus, if I make myself more scarce, there will be less opportunities for us to get into conflict, lol. At least that is my hope...


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