# My wife is emotionally numb, Wants a separation and likes another guy...HELP PLZ



## HangingOntoHope (Aug 28, 2017)

Hello,

I posted this earlier today, but as I was re-reading it, I realized it was not proof read very well at all. I cannot seem to delete the other post...

I want to start this off with this. I am looking for honest help, I am not looking for short answers that do not provide any substance or insight to my current situation.

My Wife and I's 5th year anniversary is on September 8th. One that we have been looking forward to since the day we got married. We have had struggles that most would have called it quits. That moment never arrived until about 2 weeks ago, for us. Bear with me as I do not plan to hide anything and want to lay it all out on the table.

When my wife and I first met, it was a pure lust relationship. I had money, enough to not have to work for roughly 3 years. We met at a mutual friend’s BBQ and slowly hit it off. It is safe to say after a couple weeks she made the advance on me. She was so beautiful, I never thought I had a chance. I responded and we kissed for the first time. A few days later we made love. I was supposed to be leaving the next day to live in a new town and my dog decided to run away as I was loading the last of my things into the U-Haul trailer. I was devastated. I was literally leaving right then. I didn’t know who to call, so I called her. The sadness in her voice made me feel better and she came over again the night. This was the night I knew it was more than just a fling, but that I had feelings for her. I found my dog the next day and moved. 

We talked for hours after I left... If we were not sleeping we were either texting of on the phone for over a week. Falling asleep on the phone and waking up to hear one another breathing. Something I have never done before. I made an excuse to move back, told her that it wasn’t working out with my living situation, but at the end of the day I wanted to pursue this new-found affection. 

I moved back and she immediately moved into my place. Things were great, we spent every waking moment together. We got engaged, earlier than most would prefer, it had only been about 3 months. We decided that we should wait a year to make sure we were not being completely stupid. We did all kinds of things, I broke her out of her shell. I took her to Vegas for her first time, I took her to Napa, Ca for a friend’s wedding. We drove down Silverado Trail and went wine tasting. We did so much, because I wanted her to experience a life outside of Colorado. We had some arguments over the course of this time. Some worse than others. But nothing that we couldn't overcome. Neither one of us really had a real idea of how to talk like mature adults. She was 23, I was 26.

Then the day came when we got married, at first we wanted all these special places and even put a deposit down at one of the nicer hotels in the area. At the end of the day we decided to be married on my Grandmothers 17-acre ranch. It was the best decision we ever made. Everyone sat on Hay Bales during the Fall with the colors changing all around us. We chose White and Royal blue to have our colors stand out against the mountains. This was truly the best day of our life.

We left for our Honeymoon shortly after and had an amazing time. 6 Days and 7 Nights in Playa Del Carmen, Mexico. It was pure bliss. We swam with dolphins, we partied, we spent time together just lying in the room. I will never forget it. Then we got back...

When we got home, money became an issue. I was running out. I realized that my life was no longer about me. It was about my wife and I and I had no way to financially support her in anyway. I started to distance myself from her almost instantly (I didn’t realize this until recently). I told her I need to figure this out, that I must find a way for us not to become homeless before the 2 months of finances we had left ran out. It was the worst thing I could have done when I look back on it today. It took me a while to find a job, after not having a job for 3 years, people had a hard time hiring me. Even though my track record with jobs beforehand was solid. I finally found a job that paid 10/hour and my wife found one as well. We were living paycheck to paycheck but we were surviving, but after I had that moment in life where money was not an issue and the amount of stress it alleviated, I wanted more, I wanted financial security. I felt that as a man, it was my job to make the money and allow her to work if she chose to. I kept looking for ways to become that person I needed to be for her. Without realizing I was pushing her away because I had become emotionally disconnected (not numb, just simply trying to figure it all out). Now the town we lived in doesn't have a lot of room for opportunities to land a successful career without having a degree of some sorts, unless you decided to travel and join the oil rigs. Things were getting worse, she would go out with friends and I would stay home worrying about money.

Some time passed and we decided we needed to rekindle the love and move away, to start a new life. She didn’t want to move, but she moved because she could see how much I was hurting staying where we were. Now mind you, it has always been easy for me to pack up and leave growing up in the military, she has lived here her entire life. Her family and friends all lived there, it is everything she has ever known, and she left for me. We sold everything we couldn't fit into our car and left. We moved to Panama City Florida. We chose this based on a former boss of mine, she used to live here and told us how much she loved it. We realized that the cost of living was actually cheaper than where we currently were. We moved here with no jobs, nowhere to live and we have never even been here before. At this point we had been married for 2 years.

When we got here, we found a man that was willing to rent us his place, I gave him first, second, last month rents plus the security deposit and told him if we did not have jobs in 2 months we would move out and go back home. He was hesitant at first, but I will never forget, he told me "the reason I let you move in, is because I can see the love in both of your eyes, and I have a feeling you will both be just fine". My wife found a job in less than 2 weeks cleaning hotel rooms, I found one about 2 weeks after working for a beer company. My interview went so well that they gave me a relief sales position starting at 36k/year. This was the most money I had ever made with a job other than my construction background when I used to make 23/hour (this was also in California and the cost of living was so high that I could barely pay my bills). We started doing things together again, it was a new place, we wanted to explore. But somehow, it started to go back to the old ways, she wanted to go out, I was tired and wanted to sit at home and relax.

6 months after landing here I realized that I did not care for the company I worked for, I found an opportunity to apply for another company that I felt would be a better fit. I applied, I got the job, my salary jumped another 10k/year. I was still so focused on making more money, to find that financial independence I felt we HAD to have. After a while, I started to notice some things, she was staying out later, not calling as much, the "I didn’t hear my phone ring" when I would call. One night I knew where she was and I went over there unannounced. I made it a very awkward situation knowing there was something. I left, I went home and about an hour later she called me extremely upset that I had done something like that. She told me she was coming back to pack some bags and she was leaving.

When she got there, we fought, then things were revealed. She admitted to being unfaithful with one of the people that was at the house. She admitted that she was unfaithful when we lived in Colorado. She admitted that she had also kissed another guy but that was it. I was devastated, but in the back of my mind, I already knew. I just wanted her to be honest. See, one of biggest problems we have is communication and honesty. I knew I wanted to stay with my wife, but what I did next was also one of the biggest mistakes I could have made. I made it up her to her to fix our marriage, it was her fault, she had to prove herself to me. God I was so stupid. 
Not long after that we adopted our son, her sister’s baby (she was 17 with the maturity level of maybe a 13 year old, the father was 25 and a raging alcoholic that wanted nothing to do with his son). To this day, I do not regret this decision as he is the love of my life and I would do anything for him. Things started to get better, we were a family. Then things started going back to the same old thing, again. She quit her job when we adopted him, we couldn’t afford daycare, but eventually she wanted to go back to work. She got a night time serving job, I worked days. I would get up in the morning, take care of him, get her up to watch him, go to work, get home and she would be leaving. For months, this was our life. She would get off and want to go have a drink to release the stress from the day, she didn’t want to come home because we would both be sleeping and she was not tired. She eventually wanted to quit this job because of this and become a stay at home mom. I had finally found a way to make enough money to make this a reality, but my wife is not a person to just sit at home and do the mom thing. Not everyone is. She wanted to go back to work after about 8 months. We decided whatever she did, it had to be a daytime position and we would introduce our son to daycare. We both figured it was the best thing anyway as we do not know many people out here with kids and we figured the social interaction was going to be good for him.

And here we are, I am sorry for the extremely long introduction before I got to the actual problem at hand, but I felt it necessary to lay some background information to receive honest advice. If you have noticed other than the admission to the unfaithfulness, I have not put much blame on my wife for anything in our past. It is not that there is nothing there (there is quite a bit actually, some of it which may be part of the reason I just kept keeping that emotional distance), but that is in the past, and I have realized things about myself in the last month that helped push her into those decisions she made (this by no means make what she did right, it simply says if I had done things different, she would have never been in the situation in the first place).

If you ask my wife, she will tell you I am an amazing husband and an amazing father, I get up in the mornings and feed our son, get him ready, take him to daycare all so she can sleep in a little bit longer, we go to work, I get back in time to pick him up from daycare due to the flexibility of my job, I get his snacks, I make most dinners and I help her clean the house. 
About a month ago, we got into an argument and she decided she wanted to leave. She left and stayed at a friend’s house for 2 days. It was at this moment that I realized I was not giving her what she needed most. Affection, quality time, words of affirmation. I loved her, and she knew that, but she hasn’t felt that in years. I showed her I loved her by doing all the things I just mentioned, thinking I do these things whereas most men do not. She came back, and I cried to her, told her I saw something in myself I didn’t like, things I wanted to change. That I was so focused on money, that I forgot there were essential things you needed that I was not providing. We decided to go to counseling. He gave us a couple books of which I have read (5 languages of love and His Needs Her Needs). But other than that, he did nothing else that helped us. For about 3 weeks, things were like they used to be (during this time I read 5 languages of love) …. Then once again, things started to slip back into the same routine. She noticed it, and I noticed it. It had become such an easy habit that it was extremely easy to revert to those ways. This devastated her, it made me hopeful. I realized in a short amount of time that it was slipping back, I wanted to break the old habits and replace them with the ones she needs to FEEL loved. To her, I just gave up. She wanted to leave again. She needed space, she needed time to think. (this was a week ago, yesterday)

The first 2 days she asked for space I was unable to do so. I knew in the back of my mind that it was what I needed to do, but I couldn’t. Over the course of us being together 6 years, I have fallen in love with her more and she has fallen out of love with me. The first day I wrote her a letter. It said that a month ago, I saw something in myself that I did not like, something I wanted to change. I used a picture as a metaphor for our relationship, that it had become dark, and that it wasn’t until she left I could see come color, it said that it wasn’t until that I noticed things slipping back that I was able to see more colors to the picture of our life. It was not a good choice. It had zero impact, she had become emotionally numb. The second day I put up a facebook post expressing that I do not do the things I need to do. It was selfish, it was highly unnecessary and all it did was push her further away (I deleted it after only a few hours, but enough had seen it to make the wrong impact on her).The week went by and I am crushed, she doesn’t want to come home because she doesn’t want to see me. She was gone until late hours, and I was here taking care of our son. She told me last Friday that she was going to stay at a friend’s house and have a girls’ night. I had a bad feeling, I knew she was talking to another guy, but at the same time I really didn’t think anything of it, I knew where he lived, I knew they worked together, but I also knew that he is a 37-year-old pothead that shucks oysters for a living. 
A couple weeks prior to this I downloaded a tracking app on my phone because someone tried to steal mine when I was at one of my accounts, I wanted to be able to use my wife’s phone to track mine in the event this ever happened again. With my job, my phone is my lifeline. Losing it, losing my contacts and being unable to talk to my accounts and place orders would devastate my ability to do my job. That Saturday morning, I opened the app to see if she stayed where she said she was going to stay…..she was at this guy’s house. I was crushed, I couldn’t believe it. I didn’t want to believe it, I drove over there…our car was parked in his driveway. I didn’t go to the door, I simply drove back home. I called her mom (her mom went through a similar situation with my wifes father years and years ago, she was the same person that was on my end of the stick), crying, told her I really don’t think she slept with him but still couldn’t believe that she stayed at another guy’s house. We talked for 2 hours. My wife texted me at 10am the next morning telling me she was ok and she would be back home later. She called me twice while I was still talking with her mom and I called her back within a few minutes. She gave me this elaborate story of how she stayed up at her friend’s house and had to take a backway home because of a train that passes through this area regularly. I knew this was not the case. She is emotionally numb to me but I couldn’t leave things left unsaid. If I was going to truly become a better person, I couldn’t have something like this weigh in the back my head if I ever wanted to move forward. 

For the first time in my life I confronted her in a way that she didn’t feel like I was attacking her. I caught her in the lie, I told her that our son had opened the app on my phone and I saw where she was to soften the argument, but I am sure she knows that this was not the case. She told me the app was wrong, that she was not there…. I told her I saw the car. Now, I really thought she was going to get extremely upset and literally leave again right then, but what happened next caught me off guard as much as it caught her off guard that I didn’t freak out when I knew where she was. She started shaking and tears welled up in her eyes. True tears, not fake, not pity, genuine tears. I know my wife, I know what is what. I thought they had had sex, she took her sunglasses off and looked me in the face and told me they did not have sex, that she went back to his place because they were drinking and she did not want to drive home. She told me she slept on the couch.
I kept my cool, I let her talk, I did not interrupt her. She told me she still loves me but is in no way in love with me. That in her mind our relationship is done. She doesn’t want a divorce but she doesn’t want to be in our relationship either. She told me that I am an amazing person, better than anyone she had ever dated in her life, but there were things I did not do that has pushed her away. For the first time in a long time we just talked but everything was still distanced, she kept telling me she didn’t love me anymore and it breaks her heart because she doesn’t want to hurt my feelings. Not much else was said that day. She stayed at home but mainly stayed in the room. 
On Sunday, she had a meeting at work she had to go to. But during the day before she had to leave we talked again, we just sat outside with our feet in our son’s kiddie pool and just talked. Not about us, but just had conversation. At some points the relationship would come up again but then we would change the subject. It was nice. Once the time came for her to get ready to leave, she told me she was going to stay out afterwards, but wouldn’t be home to late because she had to be at work the next morning. She was out late, but I gave her the distance she asked for, I didn’t call, I didn’t text. She texted me around 8:30pm telling me she was going to stay out a little later and she would call me when she was leaving. I fell asleep and I did not hear my phone ring. She called me 8 times, with each time getting angrier and angrier thinking I was ignoring her phone calls. She got home and realized I was asleep and woke me up. She told me she was so mad that she was ready to fight (in my mind, this started to tell me that she still has feelings for me, if she was that upset and wanted to fight, but telling me she was completely and utterly done, there would be no reason for her to be upset and want to argue, please correct me if I am thinking more into this then I should). We went outside and we started to talk. 
She opened up about the past Friday night. And you could see that she didn’t want to. She didn’t know how to be completely honest with me (this has been a big problem for a long time). But she did, she admitted that she has feelings for this other guy, that they ended up kissing that Friday night and that they touched each other, but reassured me that she did not have any type of intercourse and that she really did sleep on the couch. She admitted that she liked it, that she was getting something from him that she has not gotten from me in an extremely long time. She admitted that it scared her, because the past times she was unfaithful it was a drunken night of stupidity and regret followed after. But this time for her it was different. I kept my calm, I let her talk it out. Then she stopped and looked at me. She said “you really do love me, don’t you?”. I told her it has never been a question that I loved her, but that I was showing her my love in all the wrong ways. (I was not speaking her love language). She couldn’t comprehend how I was managing to stay cool and actually talk to her without judgement. She repeated this several times over. We really talked, and I mean talked until 4 in the morning. She told me she had planned to talk to this other guy the next day to lay everything out there. To see where he stood on this whole thing. She also said she tried to have that talk with him that night before she came home but he dismissed it saying they weren’t going to talk about it that night. We decided enough was said and that we should really go to bed, we both had work in a few hours. I couldn’t sleep, I picked up the other book our counselor had given us (His Needs Her Needs) and I read the entire thing. I flipped corners and highlighted certain areas that directly related to us. She ended up calling out of work and I left to go handle my day. I ended up calling my accounts and took their orders over the phone telling them I was taking a personal day. I did have some errands I had to run so I took care of those. I found this website, I found some free help calls and started talking to random people to obtain more advice. I expected when I got home she would be gone. She was still here. I asked to talk to her, I wanted to talk to her about the book before she talked to this other guy. She said in a minute, during that time I realized I was going to do the same thing again, not give her the space she said she needed. I decided to not talk to her about the book and I started writing this post. 
She came out after about 30 minutes and asked me what I wanted to talk about. I told her it was not important and that I wanted to give her the space she wanted. She said she came out to talk, so we might as well talk. She told me that she texted the other guy to see when he would be available to talk but he blew her off, said he was busy and that they could talk tomorrow (as I proof read this I just found out that he left without telling her anything and that they couldn’t talk until this Friday). We talked about so many things, she told me again that she is not in love with me but in a way, I still have a hold on her. That she still sees me as an amazing person that has done so many things right, but that even when I’m saying the things she wants to hear, she doesn’t have any feelings about them, that she still feels the same way. That she is still emotionally numb to the entire situation. I expressed to her that I understood that and I thanked her (I had thanked her the night prior as well and she couldn’t figure out why, I told her I was thanking her for her honesty, and that is all I have ever wanted). You could see in her eyes that she was taken back by the comment. She still couldn’t figure out why I was thanking her when she has just admitted that she kissed another guy, has feelings for another guy and is telling me she no longer loves me.
After a couple hours, she asked if I would go down to the bar and have a couple drinks with her before it was time to pick our son up from daycare (this is the first time she has asked me to do something with her in over 2 weeks). I gladly accepted the invitation, we talked more, about random things, not the problems we were going through. At one point she mentioned that when her mom comes down it would be nice to see if she could watch our son for a few days so that we could go up to Nashville and see something new, then mentioned that it would probably be too expensive. I told her, that if there was a way to work things out, that I thought that was a fantastic idea and we would worry about the money later (this is not me in the past, I am always worried about money, having credit cards paid off, having money in savings for emergencies, telling her we couldn’t do something because we really didn’t have the money even if we did). Her own comment caught her off guard. And she looked at me and said “you know until right now, I haven’t even thought about the other guy all day”. When it was time to pick up our son we had to go to the grocery store, he had nothing for breakfast in the morning and there were things I needed to grab anyway. I told her I would take them back to the house and I would go so she could spend some alone time with him without me being there (giving her the space she said she needs). She liked the idea, but after we picked up him, she said to just go to the store anyway. When we got back (around 6:30pm, we started talking around 2:00pm), she said she still wanted to talk some more. We put the groceries away and got our son settled with a snack and a movie and we went outside. We talked until almost midnight (please know our house is kid proof and we kept the curtains open in order to keep an eye on him). We would talk and then play some songs and sing along and dance in the chairs. I couldn’t help but smile at her when she would sing, I know she could see it, but I couldn’t help it. Part of me thought I wasn’t giving the space she was needing, but when she would look at me, it didn’t seem to bother her. We have not talked like this since the first days of us being together. There were times when she would talk about him and talk about other things, and even though I didn’t really want to hear it, I kind of did. I appreciated the honesty, I appreciated that for the first time in a long time she was confiding in me, even if it was about someone else. We went to bed (she went to bed I slept on the couch). I woke up this morning and decided to finish this post, she left just a few minutes ago, and it was the simple goodbye and out the door. I do not know if she will be home late tonight, I know that she plans to talk to this other guy, and yesterday she told me that depending on his response, she was not sure if that if he said he wanted to pursue it that she would say no (again as I am proof reading this, I just found out that he said he couldn’t do it today but they could talk on Friday). I also do not think she planned on having the day she had yesterday with me.
I am lost, I am confused, I need help. Do the last couple days say anything, or is she just trying to make me feel better. Is there something there that she is seeing but is fighting the temptation tooth and nail? Any help, any advice, would be greatly appreciated. Please help me find a way to show her that I love her, to find a way to break the wall she has put up so high. What is next? What if she talks to him and wants to pursue the other guy, do I sit and wait and let her figure things out? Do I start to move on and try to heal? If she chooses me, and wants to work it out, how do I prevent myself from slipping back into the past…


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

You need to read up on the 180. What you describe is the classic cake eater. Let her go.
You deserve better. Also, read No More Mr Nice Guy


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

OP,

What was you life like when you were growing up?

How was your relationship with your parents? Siblings? Grandparents?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Every time things get stressful this girl looks for someone else. Why don't you see that and why don't you deserve more? More... like a partner who sticks with you when the going gets tough. You're very codependent on this girl, that's not good. You should love yourself enough not to have to share your wife. 

https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy

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## HangingOntoHope (Aug 28, 2017)

Part of me knows I am better than this, that I should move on. But I also see the massive amount of good in her. And I have seen the massive changes in her over the last 2 years.  @ReturntoZero
I cannot say I had the best childhood, but I have no where come close to having the worst either. My mom was there, we were fed, we had christmas, we always had a roof over our head, but she wasn't there emotionally. There are too many nights I remember her getting drunk and talking on the phone for hours on end. I had zero structure, at 12 I could play outside to 3am if I wanted to. My dad was never a dad, he paid child support, but as far as teaching me anything about the real world, or being a man. He was there but never really there. My stepfather was ok at first, until my brothers were born, then I took the backseat to everything and I no longer mattered. I learned more from other peoples family about how to be a person than I learned from my own home. I know my parents love me, but I dont think they ever fully understood how to teach me the simple things in life.


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## RideofmyLife (Dec 18, 2015)

OP, where is your anger? You're sitting back and just letting her decide whether you'll be plan B while she courts plan A with your permission??. Shake up her world. Make her see what she's going to lose. I doubt you'll do it, but you need to file for divorce. You can always stop the process if you start seeing true remorse. Right now, I don't even see regret! You can't save your marriage unless you're willing to lose it. And you can't "nice" her back. It never works. Women respect strong confident men with healthy boundaries, and you ain't it!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

So, you're not going to be like your dad... you're going to be a White Knight... you're going to sacrifice yourself to rescue her. 

Here's a hint, you can't fix her, only she can do that. You can only fix you. 

https://www.henrymakow.com/2015/10/white-knight-syndrome.html

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## HangingOntoHope (Aug 28, 2017)

I am no white knight by any means, and I am not a pushover. Our entire relationship and even now, I still hold my ground. But when I was not the nice guy things slipped back. I have never tried a more sensitive approach to this relationship. 

And you are right, I do not want to be like my dad. I do not want my son growing up hearing nothing but fighting whenever you went home to visit. Hearing words spouted with such hatred and disgust in just the other room. I do not want him to see hammers and skil saws flying through the living room because he is upset. and I dont want him to see someone breaking dishes because someone ate the last can of tuna.


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

She caught feelings for a guy that was exciting and will not be there for her. Let her fall bc he has already replaced her. Stupid woman


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Then start thinking about how you're going to give your son a stable life with at least one responsible parent. 

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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Look you didn't do anything to make her cheat. That was her own decision to go outside the marriage multiple times, to find some one else. So don't put that on yourself. 

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## HangingOntoHope (Aug 28, 2017)

Do all of you honestly think there is no hope for this situation? That no matter what I do this is going to become the same outcome over and over again? I do want to point out that I already notice this other guy is avoiding the conversation she wants to have. She thinks he just busy and has things to do (he is a pothead that shucks oysters, he spends most nights just sitting at his house getting stoned, she told me this a long time ago when she was first hired and barely knew the guy). I am a guy at the end of the day. He is avoiding a conversation he does not want to have, she doesn't see that because she is blinded. But in the event that she notices it, realizes her mistake, and says she wants to work it out. Do I still walk away? Is that the moment I lay ground rules? Do you think it is just a matter of time before this all happens again? I know this is a very what if situation, but I have to play possibilities out to be prepared for what comes next. I really do love my wife, more than I have loved anyone else. But she also knows that if she chooses to pursue a relationship with the other guy, that that is the moment I walk away and stop trying. I have told her to figure it out, to talk to him, but that is honestly me being understanding of the situation but the end game remains the same. I will not allow her to stay in our house with our son and come and go when she pleases to see another guy.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

One broken wheel makes for a bumpy wagon ride.
One broken wheel makes the wagon go in circles.

Two broken wheels makes the wagon very hard to pull.
Two broken wheels stops the wagon in its tracks.

And the mule lays down, refusing to pull any more.

Your wife's wheel is broken completely.
Your wheel needs grease and is way out of alignment.

The mule that is pulling your marriage cart has given up. His back is hurting.

Your' one wheel is not sufficient to maintain forward motion.

You need to have your priorities re-aligned.

Your marriage cart needs to be scrapped out.

Divorce her, take the child with you.
Never look back.

As time passes, her wheel will sink further and further in the muck.
Until it rots completely away.

Think about it. She replaced you [or wants to] with an under-employed drug addict. He got his piece of ass from her. It must not have been very good. He too is ghosting her.
Wow, she can pick them.

Oh, sorry, so can you :-{


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

OP, I don't know if it matters to you in the reconciliation process but I am a 100% sure she slept with this guy. It sounds like she is into him more than he is into her. She was just an easy lay for him and she thinks he might be future Mr. Right. Again, you may not care because you are determined to get back together with her but all that falling in love stuff is the talk of two people who are _involved_. Grown people of the opposite sex who are not family don't ordinarily have platonic sleepovers. It rarely happens. Keep in mind, I said I am 100% sure. These kind of events follow a certain pattern.

This giving of space that you think is a good idea is not. You need to get her to make a decision to leave or to stay. You know why she can't tell if she loves you or not? It is — and understand this is just my opinion based on my experience — because you are not manly enough to put your foot down and demand a decision NOW. Demand doesn’t mean rough but it does mean resolute, firm, insistent.

All those ‘beautiful’ moments you two had singing and dancing sound like a friend relationship. Kind of like how the cheerleader might complain to the nerd about her jock boyfriend but she is not interested in him. Although he may take her offloading her emotions on him as interest. He is sadly mistaken. But I digress.

Women feel safe with men they know have balls. Even the bad ones. That why you’ll hear some of them complain about those bad men but yet they are so reluctant to leave them. The wishy-washy stuff just isn’t the right approach to this, I think. Calm and firm, strong and silent, I think that’s the way to go. What does that mean in practical terms? Let’s see if my short attention span can make this post elaborate.

Let her know you are not waiting. You are already taking counsel from legal professionals (scary!) to see what your options are. Detach. You know why she got angry when she saw you didn’t return her calls. Because it showed that you didn’t need her. You could cast her off without a thought. She secretly found that sexy. Needy men make a woman dry down there (wink wink) faster than a towel made of sackcloth. Don’t let yourself slip into the pity cycle. Get up and do your job, be a good dad, exercise (God, it helps), and as best you can get a social thing going on; doesn’t have to be outrageous every-other-weekend-drunkfest. Just someone to shoot the air with.

Well, that’s the limit of the attention span. I am sure there are things I miss. Maybe another poster can supplement for me. Godspeed, OP.


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## HangingOntoHope (Aug 28, 2017)

Here is another thought. Next Tuesday I leave town for work. Not supposed to come back until Friday night. Should I give her a taste of her own medicine? Should I not come back for the weekend and let her feel what I do day in and day out for her and our son? Do you think that it would open her eyes and make her appreciate everything I actually do?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

If you allow her to use you as a back up plan, she'll always try again. This is a marriage, it's not a place for games. Not a place put each other through hell. Not a place to explore feelings for others. Not a place for three. It's either in or out. 

Think about how brooken she is. She's looking for love from a pothead nothing, over her loving working husband and father of her son. It's that the kind of woman you want as a partner? 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

There may be hope for this situation.

There is NO HOPE if you don't fix you first.

Many of us have walked this road.

I even have friends here who can't understand why I'm still married.

But... they will not deny that I fixed ME first.

My wife amuses, entertains, and sometimes enlightens me. We endured a 3 year separation.

Right now.. you can't buy a clue. And, that's why you're so stressed out.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Your wife is a serial cheat and is wholly incapable of fidelity.

File for divorce, let her go (read up on and implement the 180), and move on with your life.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Here's what a friend sent me in the middle of the storm:

*********************

I think you are doing right now which is second guessing yourself. Yes you could wait as I could but wait for what? I don't know what she will do either. My dad forced my mom to choose between him and me and she choose him. Of course he is toxic and that's not what this is about. This is about respect for an authority figure. Kids can have a say in what happens but the ultimate decision lies with the adults. There is no other healthy way to do that. They are kids and are not supposed to be in control of your marriage. That's crazy.

You are getting her anger because in her eyes you are safer. Or because you aren't letting her call the shots. Just don't get sucked into a fight with her. That's the worst thing you can do. Disengage. Make her own her anger which is really about her kids she doesn't see it yet. If you refuse to let her dump on you she may figure that out. Make her own it. 

On fitness tests men really enjoy the banter? Serious question. Wouldn't you rather have your wife be nice?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

FWIW... my wife was not unfaithful that I know of.

At this point, I really wouldn't care.

She wouldn't dare cheat on "this version" of me... the new improved version.

If she did... she's gone.

You need to internalize this sort of confidence... and live it.

It's called leadership.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

HangingOntoHope said:


> Here is another thought. Next Tuesday I leave town for work. Not supposed to come back until Friday night. Should I give her a taste of her own medicine? Should I not come back for the weekend and let her feel what I do day in and day out for her and our son? Do you think that it would open her eyes and make her appreciate everything I actually do?


Do not play games.

But, I would imagine you are "eminently available" to her.

Pull back on that.

Leave Tuesday and go dark.

See what happens and report back.

DO NOT RESPOND TO HER.

I'll wager she can't last 24-36 hours without some contact.

Let us know.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

She's repeatedly told you she's attached to you, but not in love with you and she's on OM #4 in total. Are you ok with an open marriage? If not, just file for the divorce and coparent amicably.


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## Louise McCann (Jul 23, 2017)

I replied to your previous thread. Along the lines of what others here have said - disengage, focus on yourself, become alpha, stop giving her attention, show her (or pretend) you do not care. Do not allow yourself to be a pushover. Show her you don't need her and she will start to doubt herself and everything. You may need to start ignoring her too. Please don't contact her unless for the important things. She will come crawling back to you.

No more Mr Nice Guy.


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## Louise McCann (Jul 23, 2017)

In all honesty, you sound like a great responsible man who is husband & father material, with a heart of gold. She on the other hand sounds like a joke - a messed up child who backstabs the one person who's been there for her no matter what, by ****ing anything that moves. Worst part is she lies about it and blames YOU. I am a b*tch myself in many ways but the last thing I would do is blame someone else for my horrible behaviour. 

You are a catch and she is a sad pityful person. Her sleeping around while having a child at home says a lot about her character. Enough to want a divorce.


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## HangingOntoHope (Aug 28, 2017)

I feel like I may have given myself to much credit in the original post (we can chalk this up that I am still too emotionally attached and can't see the greater picture if that is how it comes across). we have fought a lot in our past, only recently have either of us been making changes. In the past, we would go out and have some drinks and she would come home and tell me that she is unhappy, that she doesn't feel loved (this has happened a lot). I would always dismiss the argument with you are just drunk, I don't want to talk about these things when we are not sober. That if she felt this way in the morning to tell me again and we would talk about it. But recently she told me that when she woke up those next mornings she felt the same way, but the way I dismissed her feelings the night prior made her shut down even more. Last night we talked some more and I told her that I was Plan B in this situation right now, and she started to cry. I can tell it truly breaks her heart that she put herself in this situation, but she can't believe after 5 years of being married and being together for 6 that I just now realize how much I didn't do in the relationship. I read the book 5 languages of love, and it points out key ways a person needs to feel loved (Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Gifts, Physical Touch, Acts of Service). I do all of those other things, and thats great (Acts of Service and Physical Touch (foot rubs, back rubs, running my fingers through her hair as we watch a show) being the main ones). But I ignored the thing she craved most (Words of Affirmation and Quality Time). She always planned the date nights, she always found the babysitter. She would think of things to go do (before and after the adoption). I do not condone the actions she has taken, in the past or recently. And she is fully aware that if she pursues something with this guy, that it will be the end of our marriage. But for once in the lifetime of our relationship, I actually looked back and saw things about myself that I do not like. I hate that I have never planned a date night. I hate that I stopped talking to her and just enjoyed a conversation. So at the end of the day, I still have a huge part into why our marriage started to fail in the first place.


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## HangingOntoHope (Aug 28, 2017)

In the original post I mentioned that we started to see a counselor but we didn't think he really cared enough about the situation. This is when I had that reflection on myself of the things I had done (or not done for that matter) to help build a healthy marriage. I planned a date night for the first time in I don't know how long. I even found the babysitter (at first I...once again asked her to and caught myself and told her dont worry about it, I will find it). I planned an amazing evening.

I took her to dinner, I dressed up in jeans, cowboy boots, white button up, red tie and a grey vest. I had her drop our son off at the baby sitter and when she left I hid roses around the house with the first one laying on the coffee table. Each rose had a thing about her I loved, and then a clue to find the next rose (mostly short poems). There was 6 roses total (1 for each year we have been together). The other 6 from the dozen I bought I spread the pedals around the house and lit a dozen candles. 

The look in her eyes when she opened the door is one I will never forget, she just sat down and cried. She hugged me before she even picked up the first rose and whispered in my ear "this is all I have ever wanted, and this is the nicest thing anyone has ever done for me in my life". 

It was not long after that when things started to slip back into the same old routine. We had 2 solid weeks where things started looking up. You could see the happiness in her face. We both knew everything I was doing was completely over the top and that it couldn't last forever. But I think in her mind, it slowed down to fast, and felt like the old us to quick. Which turned into the situation I am facing now.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

HangingOntoHope said:


> In the original post I mentioned that we started to see a counselor but we didn't think he really cared enough about the situation. This is when I had that reflection on myself of the things I had done (or not done for that matter) to help build a healthy marriage. I planned a date night for the first time in I don't know how long. I even found the babysitter (at first I...once again asked her to and caught myself and told her dont worry about it, I will find it). I planned an amazing evening.
> 
> I took her to dinner, I dressed up in jeans, cowboy boots, white button up, red tie and a grey vest. I had her drop our son off at the baby sitter and when she left I hid roses around the house with the first one laying on the coffee table. Each rose had a thing about her I loved, and then a clue to find the next rose (mostly short poems). There was 6 roses total (1 for each year we have been together). The other 6 from the dozen I bought I spread the pedals around the house and lit a dozen candles.
> 
> ...


You do realize that one person cannot be responsible for the emotional response of another? Life doesn't work that way.


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## HangingOntoHope (Aug 28, 2017)

I do, but one person can be responsible for the emotional needs of another. At the end of the day, isn't that what a marriage comes down to? Meeting the emotional needs of your significant other in ways that may not come naturally to you. I am reverting to a lot of books and posts and advice from the last week. But one thing I have read multiple times that was somewhat similar to my situation, was that if you want to rebuild the marriage. The first thing you have to do is find a way to express your love in a way that they feel that love. Like the title of this thread. My wife is emotionally numb, she is becoming hardened not just to our relationship, but life itself. She has never had a decent relationship in her past (I have heard the horror stories from her friends and family of these other guys). She is on the brink of depression. I may be blind, but I can see that. Just because I have done some things right, doesn't make up for the things I ignored completely, especially when it is those said things that she needed the most. Does that make sense?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

...and what about her part in all of this? 

Is that all dismissed because you didn't read her right? Why can't you admit she did her part to make this mess too. 

Look, marriage is a learning experience, a journey of maturity for both individuals. Two mature individuals willing to work together. 

Stop taking all the blame. You are responsible for being a good man, husband, father, leader, lover, and partner. Not her happiness! You shouldn't have to constantly give her pleasure. She should get pleasure from you as that person. Does that make sense? 


"No one is ready for marriage. Marriage makes you ready for marriage" - David Snarch


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

ReturntoZero said:


> FWIW... my wife was not unfaithful that I know of.
> 
> At this point, I really wouldn't care.
> 
> ...


Stop

Stop

Just stop

Please. Stop.

Who are you trying to convince here?

She has told you she no longer loves you.

She told you she was physical with the guy in this thread (yeah - two grown adults just stopping at kissing. I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I need to sell)

She's connected to you - yeah, as the father of her kid, as a paycheck, for a place to sleep when OM can't have her over. Nothing more

You can proverbial beat your chest to show everyone what a caveman you are all you want.

Thing is, she's already cheated on you (or this new improved version of you).

That's a fact.The problem is, facts are true whether you believe them or not.

Why not stop this crazy train? Start your divorce. Be the best father you can be?


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

OP you are not seeing what we are seeing. Have you read up on the 180 or "No More Mr Nice Guy"? If not, do so now and stop with the Love Languages and such. There are two problems in your marriage right now. One is the fact that your wife has chosen another man over you. (W T F!!!!) The other is that you are attempting to "nice" her back.

You're both broken in different ways. As an analogy, you are working on the motor to improve performance while she has completely effed the drive train. Both would have to be fixed for this marriage to work. You cannot fix her issues. Fix yours independent of her because what you are doing right now is not going to work.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You are not a white knight, but everything you type and say is reinforced Nice Guy White knight. Your wife comes home drunk making demands and it is your fault you didn't listen. One person can be responsible for the needs of emotional needs of another. You read a book that shows you thing you did right, but you made mistakes and now you are the worst guy ever. She freely talks about the OM and you just take it. You just rewrote your OP because it didn't make you look bad enough. She parties and then gets made when you show up to check on your wife and you accept the blame. She repeatedly asks for space, cheats and YOU take her back. All of this after your wife is on her 4th OM because of your mistakes.



Even with major mistakes, if your spouse is on their fourth OM you are a pushover and you do not stand up for yourself.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

HangingOntoHope,

Your wife is a serial cheater. She lies to your face minimizing what she does . Then blames you for it. If you actually believe she is not hooking up with these guys you are deluded. You diddle long enough and she is going to get pregnant from one of her lovers and present herself at your door. Is that the life you want to lead? Raising another mans child after you have been warned? Get rid of her as fast as you can. Dump her and fast.


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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

HangingOntoHope said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am lost, I am confused, I need help. Do the last couple days say anything, or is she just trying to make me feel better. Is there something there that she is seeing but is fighting the temptation tooth and nail? Any help, any advice, would be greatly appreciated. Please help me find a way to show her that I love her, to find a way to break the wall she has put up so high. What is next? What if she talks to him and wants to pursue the other guy, do I sit and wait and let her figure things out? Do I start to move on and try to heal? If she chooses me, and wants to work it out, how do I prevent myself from slipping back into the past…


The only way to break the wall and show her that you love her is to show her that you love yourself enough not to let her walk all over you and treat you like you're a fool. She's being extremely manipulative whether she means it or not. She is. 

Talking about this guy, telling you like you're her best friend "maybe I will leave him maybe I won't... but I know you're just gonna sit there like a dog waiting". That's basically what she's telling you. She has no respect for you and never will unless you do a 180. 

You need some individual counselling and you guys need some serious counselling if you want to stay together. If the first counsellor didn't work then go find another one, however you'd also both need to go for individual counselling, her to figure out why she needs to cheat on you and you to find out why you are willing to let her walk all over you and say nothing. My guess is she won't go for counselling.


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## HangingOntoHope (Aug 28, 2017)

Keenwa said:


> The only way to break the wall and show her that you love her is to show her that you love yourself enough not to let her walk all over you and treat you like you're a fool. She's being extremely manipulative whether she means it or not. She is.
> 
> Talking about this guy, telling you like you're her best friend "maybe I will leave him maybe I won't... but I know you're just gonna sit there like a dog waiting". That's basically what she's telling you. She has no respect for you and never will unless you do a 180.
> 
> You need some individual counselling and you guys need some serious counselling if you want to stay together. If the first counsellor didn't work then go find another one, however you'd also both need to go for individual counselling, her to figure out why she needs to cheat on you and you to find out why you are willing to let her walk all over you and say nothing. My guess is she won't go for counselling.


IF and I mean IF, we find a way to work it out, is online counseling any good? The counselors here are not very good in my opinion. I have called countless counselors just to never recieve a call back. The one that did just made the comments of "you guys seem to be doing what you need to do to get back on track". I didn't go to a counselor for reassurance of what we are currently trying. I need ideas, I want a game plan. I want homework for both of us. I cannot seem to find the right person in this area to accomplish that.

For my wife....right now, there is no way she will be willing to go to a counselor again. I have told her in the past that it wouldn't be a bad idea for her to get individual counseling so she can release some inner demons that she wants to suppress so badly. But in the end, she has never made a serious attempt in trying to do so. 

For everything else, I know that I am a pushover at the moment. But I do want you all to know I value your opinions, and they do mean a lot to me, even if I tend to disagree or even defend my actions at this time. The "D*ck me" didn't work. I only listen to her talk about this other guy, because at least she is finally being honest about something. She isn't trying to hide it and cover it up. Yea...she didn't come clean, I gave her her chance. But in the past that would have led to a massive argument and again nothing would have been solved. I am not writing this here at this moment to defend my actions but to simply show I am trying a different approach I have never tried before. But please continue to comment and call me blind, I honestly want to hear it. It makes me reflect and look at things and all of this is definitely helping me cope with the scenario at hand. I have out of town meetings next week and I plan on picking up Mr. Nice Guy and reading it while I am away. If there are other books that may help me gain a better understanding of myself. At the end, I do not feel I have done everything I could have done to make this a stronger marriage, and I am not fully ready to give up yet. But the time has come where a decision is going to be made one way or another. Either we both decide to make the drastic changes to our lives to make this relationship honest and loyal and start from a clean slate that cannot dwell on the past. Or she will choose this guy and she will remember how much of a hard ass I can truly become. And she will learn first hand that there literally is so much 1 man can take before he has to move on. That is hard, it will be hard. She has been in my life for the last 6 years. I am only 32 years old...but I will find a way to move forward. Why I am here, is to gain insight, to gain knowledge. Because, if this doesn't work out. I want to be the person I am proud of in the future. I want to instill my knowledge into my son so he never has to learn things the hard way such as I did. I have told many people this, so I will tell you all as well. My son doesn't have to be my blood in order for me to love him. But what I can do is teach him to be a man and teach him from my own past mistakes.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

HangingOntoHope said:


> I feel like I may have given myself to much credit in the original post (we can chalk this up that I am still too emotionally attached and can't see the greater picture if that is how it comes across). we have fought a lot in our past, only recently have either of us been making changes. In the past, we would go out and have some drinks and she would come home and tell me that she is unhappy, that she doesn't feel loved (this has happened a lot). I would always dismiss the argument with you are just drunk, I don't want to talk about these things when we are not sober. That if she felt this way in the morning to tell me again and we would talk about it. But recently she told me that when she woke up those next mornings she felt the same way, but the way I dismissed her feelings the night prior made her shut down even more. Last night we talked some more and I told her that I was Plan B in this situation right now, and she started to cry. I can tell it truly breaks her heart that she put herself in this situation, but she can't believe after 5 years of being married and being together for 6 that I just now realize how much I didn't do in the relationship. I read the book 5 languages of love, and it points out key ways a person needs to feel loved (Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Gifts, Physical Touch, Acts of Service). I do all of those other things, and thats great (Acts of Service and Physical Touch (foot rubs, back rubs, running my fingers through her hair as we watch a show) being the main ones). But I ignored the thing she craved most (Words of Affirmation and Quality Time). She always planned the date nights, she always found the babysitter. She would think of things to go do (before and after the adoption). I do not condone the actions she has taken, in the past or recently. And she is fully aware that if she pursues something with this guy, that it will be the end of our marriage. But for once in the lifetime of our relationship, I actually looked back and saw things about myself that I do not like. I hate that I have never planned a date night. I hate that I stopped talking to her and just enjoyed a conversation. So at the end of the day, I still have a huge part into why our marriage started to fail in the first place.


I'm gonna tell you what was told to me once upon a time by an experienced friend. He said "Once it starts, it never gets better". I didn't want to believe him. I felt that I wasn't a good enough husband, that if I fixed myself, the "love" that she had for me all those years would return (since in my mind, once you love someone, you always love them). NOPE. That's not how it works. When a woman falls out of love with a man (she HAS fallen out of love with you, make no mistake), it's NEVER coming back. You have really got to listen to people with experience if you expect to learn from their mistakes.

The ONLY chance you have of ever having your wife back is to file for divorce and break all possible ties with her and act like she has a disease you don't want to catch. Date other women and treat her as if she were dead. Then, and only then, will there be a possibility that she sees your true value and wants you back. I personally think from reading your story that you've got to divorce her and move on. She will continue to cheat on you no matter what. I'm sorry, sir. This is what you need to hear. I know it's not what you want. I know how much this hurts. I KNOW. It is what it is. The quicker you divorce her, the quicker you will develop a new life and learn to be happy again.
So sorry. Such is life.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

HangingOntoHope said:


> IF and I mean IF, we find a way to work it out, is online counseling any good? The counselors here are not very good in my opinion. I have called countless counselors just to never recieve a call back. The one that did just made the comments of "you guys seem to be doing what you need to do to get back on track". I didn't go to a counselor for reassurance of what we are currently trying. I need ideas, I want a game plan. I want homework for both of us. I cannot seem to find the right person in this area to accomplish that.
> 
> For my wife....right now, there is no way she will be willing to go to a counselor again. I have told her in the past that it wouldn't be a bad idea for her to get individual counseling so she can release some inner demons that she wants to suppress so badly. But in the end, she has never made a serious attempt in trying to do so.
> 
> For everything else, I know that I am a pushover at the moment. But I do want you all to know I value your opinions, and they do mean a lot to me, even if I tend to disagree or even defend my actions at this time. The "D*ck me" didn't work. I only listen to her talk about this other guy, because at least she is finally being honest about something. She isn't trying to hide it and cover it up. Yea...she didn't come clean, I gave her her chance. But in the past that would have led to a massive argument and again nothing would have been solved. I am not writing this here at this moment to defend my actions but to simply show I am trying a different approach I have never tried before. But please continue to comment and call me blind, I honestly want to hear it. It makes me reflect and look at things and all of this is definitely helping me cope with the scenario at hand. I have out of town meetings next week and I plan on picking up Mr. Nice Guy and reading it while I am away. If there are other books that may help me gain a better understanding of myself. At the end, I do not feel I have done everything I could have done to make this a stronger marriage, and I am not fully ready to give up yet. But the time has come where a decision is going to be made one way or another. Either we both decide to make the drastic changes to our lives to make this relationship honest and loyal and start from a clean slate that cannot dwell on the past. Or she will choose this guy and she will remember how much of a hard ass I can truly become. And she will learn first hand that there literally is so much 1 man can take before he has to move on. That is hard, it will be hard. She has been in my life for the last 6 years. I am only 32 years old...but I will find a way to move forward. Why I am here, is to gain insight, to gain knowledge. *Because, if this doesn't work out. I want to be the person I am proud of in the future.* I want to instill my knowledge into my son so he never has to learn things the hard way such as I did. I have told many people this, so I will tell you all as well. My son doesn't have to be my blood in order for me to love him. But what I can do is teach him to be a man and teach him from my own past mistakes.


The thing you will regret the most 5 years from now is allowing yourself to be so dependent on another person that you let them cheat on you and treat you like crap, and still beg them to stay with you. I know, I did it.
You can turn into the greatest man that ever lived and show her that man----- she's still in love with another dude and it won't make a damn bit of difference.
I wish I weren't right.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I gave you the link to NMMNG in my first post. Here it is again. 

https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

anchorwatch said:


> I gave you the link to NMMNG in my first post. Here it is again.
> 
> https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


What you CAN work on is your personal attractiveness, both physical and emotional.

Physical at the gym.

Emotional at the IC - and on this board.

Here's an example OP...

Motorcyclist roaring down the street. Pulls up at a house, knocks on the door. A young lovely answers. Biker speaks. "I've come to take the most beautiful woman in the world away and make her deliriously happy"

Young lovely responds... "What do you mean? What's your angle?"

****************************************

Same motorcyclist roaring down the same street - flying by - riding with purpose. Same young lovely shouts out.. "Hey, where are you going?" Biker - over his shoulder responds... "I'm going to rescue the most beautiful woman in the world..."

WAIT!!!!! - as she starts chasing the bike with the other half dozen women in his wake.


Moral of the story...

The man with the plan is attractive.

The supine simpering "acts of service" guy ends up like this


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## Louise McCann (Jul 23, 2017)

Sorry but you come across as still very blinded to what is going on here. You need to WAKE UP. She has absolutely zero respect for you. Not trying to sound sexist but I believe women are biologically inclined to being more monogamous than men. For your "wife" & mother of your child to stray away from you like that, coming from a woman, is proof she no longer loves you or values the marriage. She is DONE. You need to be too. She may not have divorced you on paper yet but trust me her heart already has long ago!

Stop blaming yourself too! Even if you were a neglectful spouse who never fulfilled the duties of a husband, it was NO EXCUSE for her behaviour. For example I roll my eyes at a stranger, who then stabs me with a knife. Would you say I am partly to blame because I rudely rolled my eyes? No! You are in no way accountable for her actions.

Even if you did find a way to save the marriage... this is a 5 year marriage which is still very early. How do you expect things will look like in another 5 years? If you were able to accept her so easily and forgive her disgusting behaviour, she will think she can get away with it again! 

You think you are at fault because that's what she wants you to believe! She is gaslighting you. It's so easy to point the finger at you instead of saying "Yes I am a selfish ho who can't keep my legs closed because I don't give a **** about you."

I understand that you love your wife unconditionally and want to honour the vows you took. That is admirable and shows how much love you have to offer. Your wife is a fool for letting you go. However, do you want your son growing up thinking that he can be treated like that by women? That his dignity is less important than his woman's itch in her panties and that he should wait while other men take turns with her? 

Stop harping on the past and the "good" in her. She has made it pretty obvious that she has checked out of the marriage. Counselling won't help when she has both feet out the door. You need to treat this marriage as over as indicated by her. Respect her wishes which will surprise her. Give her what she wants, space freedom and act like you couldn't care less. Being nice does nothing when she isn't committed. The only way you may have a chance in saving your marriage (against the general consensus here) is to do the 180. Do itttt. Whatever the outcome you will be pleasantly surprised  the longer you wait the greater the damage and emotional turmoil you will have to endure. Start now! I feel for you and hope you will see the light soon enough.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

HangingOntoHope said:


> Here is another thought. Next Tuesday I leave town for work. Not supposed to come back until Friday night. Should I give her a taste of her own medicine? Should I not come back for the weekend and let her feel what I do day in and day out for her and our son? Do you think that it would open her eyes and make her appreciate everything I actually do?


Open her eyes? Sure.

Appreciate everything that you do? Sure. She already does.

Surely.

Surely you don't think she loves you...truly loves you?

She does not have deep feelings for you. 

You are a only a good friend that, well, soon has to 'get it', and leave.

Yes, be gone all weekend. Monday too, go dark.

It will not win her back, make her realize what she is losing. She is way ahead of you.

Ghost her for you.

Oh, and do it for me! I love fireworks.


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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

HangingOntoHope said:


> IF and I mean IF, we find a way to work it out, is online counseling any good? The counselors here are not very good in my opinion. I have called countless counselors just to never recieve a call back. The one that did just made the comments of "you guys seem to be doing what you need to do to get back on track". I didn't go to a counselor for reassurance of what we are currently trying. I need ideas, I want a game plan. I want homework for both of us. I cannot seem to find the right person in this area to accomplish that.
> 
> For my wife....right now, there is no way she will be willing to go to a counselor again. I have told her in the past that it wouldn't be a bad idea for her to get individual counseling so she can release some inner demons that she wants to suppress so badly. But in the end, she has never made a serious attempt in trying to do so.


Hey there, yeah I'd say then find a really good counsellor for yourself, you will get so much clarity by seeing someone on your own. I would imagine you could have a good counselling session trough Skype if you can't find someone local. 

I have found there are 2 types of counsellors, there are the ones who listen like a friend and talk to you, and listen and then there are the ones who really dig into your problems and while the sessions might be very emotional you actually feel like you're getting somewhere. Look into Somatic counselling. I worked with a woman who was fantastic. 

I think if you can get some support in what you're going through you will find it much easier to see clearly with regards to your wife, and you're right it's a colossal waste of time to go for counselling with her if she's not into it. Don't waste your money. 

If you're stuck for a counsellor send me a pm and I can give you the name of someone I worked with who likely could do Skype sessions with you. 

There are many ineffective counsellors out there who take your money and really accomplish nothing.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

You're not going to make any progress at all if you are currently in infidelity. In fact what you are doing will hurt. 

You need to absolutely confirm there is no boyfriend in the picture.


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## 71bgol (Nov 30, 2013)

If she doesn't realize her mistakes and isn't working to fix them, get out now! You will regret this later when you are seeing things more clearly. 

#1 rule. If she is blaming you, she will not change. Please, please file.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

71bgol said:


> If she doesn't realize her mistakes and isn't working to fix them, get out now! You will regret this later when you are seeing things more clearly.
> 
> #1 rule. If she is blaming you, she will not change. Please, please file.


He's posting in the reconciliation forum. This one will take awhile.


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