# ‘Once a cheater, always a cheater’? New infidelity study says yes



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Bear in mind, I do not write for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution or own any part of them or anything, but I am actively interested in infidelity and studying it, and this study was recently released by the Center for Marital and Family Studies at the University of Denver: 

Once a cheater, always a cheater? New science study says yes

Here's the abstract if you want to buy the study: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-017-1018-1

In scientific terms: "Findings from logistic regressions showed that those who reported engaging in extra-dyadic sexual involvement in the first relationship were three times more likely to report engaging in extra-dyadic sexual involvement in their next relationship compared to those who did not report engaging in extra-dyadic sexual involvement in the first relationship. Similarly, compared to those who reported that their first-relationship partners did not engage in extra-dyadic sexual involvement, those who knew that their partners in the first relationships had engaged in extra-dyadic sexual involvement were twice as likely to report the same behavior from their next relationship partners."

In layman's terms: "Those who were unfaithful in their first relationship were three times as likely to also be unfaithful in their second/next relationship. Also, those who said their partner was unfaithful in their first relationship were twice as like to also say that their partner in their second/next relationship was unfaithful."

So it seems, from observation, that if you cheated in the past, there's triple the chance you'll cheat again next time around...cuz you're broke and you didn't fix it! 

Likewise, if you picked a cheater in there past, there's double the chance you'll pick a cheater again...your picker is broke!

I thought TAM might find this article interesting. So what thinkest thou? Agree? Disagree? Or is it all just filagree?


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

I don't think it's the fact that someone is broken as to why they cheat again but rather they crave that thrill they get when they are actively doing something they know is wrong and getting away with it.
Maybe that's the broken part of their personality trait.
Personally I think if you've crossed that line once you are more willing to do so again as you know how easy it is to cross that line. 
Having said that I do think there are people out there that do learn from cheating and do not do it again.
I think it's more likely though if you cheat once you have more of a chance of doing it again.
That adrenaline rush can be very addictive .


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Thank you for posting this, it has confirmed what I have always observed in real life.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Going by RL observation and adding in what I have seen said on forums, it seems the research is fairly accurate.

I have always been fascinated by human behavior and love reading research and stats. The strange side effect is that it makes me feel...lonely. This is my 2nd marriage, we were AP's, different religions, raised in very different socio-economic situations, on and on. According to the stats, we shouldn't be able to be friends, much less be happily married for 14 years. It's lonely to be the oddball. Wonderful, too, though. It's just hard to find people who "get it", ya know?


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Going by RL observation and adding in what I have seen said on forums, it seems the research is fairly accurate.
> 
> I have always been fascinated by human behavior and love reading research and stats. The strange side effect is that it makes me feel...lonely. This is my 2nd marriage, we were AP's, different religions, raised in very different socio-economic situations, on and on. According to the stats, we shouldn't be able to be friends, much less be happily married for 14 years. It's lonely to be the oddball. Wonderful, too, though. It's just hard to find people who "get it", ya know?


If this scientific study is absolute certainty - and it isn't - then you might not get cheated on for another x years. Just sayin'...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> Bear in mind, I do not write for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution or own any part of them or anything, but I am actively interested in infidelity and studying it, and this study was recently released by the Center for Marital and Family Studies at the University of Denver:
> 
> Once a cheater, always a cheater? New science study says yes
> 
> ...


Did they really need a study to tell us this? It's in their nature.


> "The takeaway for us is that we all need to pay attention to our romantic pasts in order to make better choices for our future (or current) relationships,"


Duh...



> Also, those who said their partner was unfaithful in their first relationship were twice as like to also say that their partner in their second/next relationship was unfaithful.


Dysfunction attracts dysfunction and I have been on these threads long enough to see that many of the people who get cheated on are dysfunctional. Their reaction to it especially the ones who are the type to wan to save at any cost say that they are codependent. Codependent people attract those who can take advantage of them.

It's why IC is so necessary.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> I don't think it's the fact that someone is broken as to why they cheat again but rather they crave that thrill they get when they are actively doing something they know is wrong and getting away with it.
> Maybe that's the broken part of their personality trait.
> Personally I think if you've crossed that line once you are more willing to do so again as you know how easy it is to cross that line.
> Having said that I do think there are people out there that do learn from cheating and do not do it again.
> ...


For a lot of these people there is no line. They just pretend there is in certain company.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I am not at all surprised by this. That's why I could never be interested in a man who had cheated before. It's amazing how many people marry someone who has cheated on their ex with them, and then are surprised when they do it to them. Duh.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

becareful2 said:


> If this scientific study is absolute certainty - and it isn't - then you might not get cheated on for another x years. Just sayin'...


Statistically, I'd be the one cheating.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> I don't think it's the fact that someone is broken as to why they cheat again but rather they crave that thrill they get when they are actively doing something they know is wrong and getting away with it.
> Maybe that's the broken part of their personality trait.
> Personally I think if you've crossed that line once you are more willing to do so again as you know how easy it is to cross that line.
> Having said that I do think there are people out there that do learn from cheating and do not do it again.
> ...


I think its more about someone's character and integrity as to whether they cheat.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Affaircare said:


> So it seems, from observation, that if you cheated in the past, there's triple the chance you'll cheat again next time around...cuz you're broke and you didn't fix it!


My ex-wife (we were each others firsts; virginity, marriage, child and divorce) who cheated on me once, has according to our daughter cheated on her 2nd husband as well.



Affaircare said:


> Likewise, if you picked a cheater in there past, there's double the chance you'll pick a cheater again...your picker is broke!


As far as I am aware I have never been cheated on by any of my other sexual partners.


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## itsontherocks (Sep 7, 2015)

I would also concur with the study. People who cheat in life usually just don't limit it in their love life, but in all aspects of their life. I could never understand sticking with a person who's cheated on you. The trust, loyalty and respect are gone.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

The underlying cause of a persons decision to cheat does not disappear because they got caught. Oftentimes the cause is within them. Sometimes the cause is within their mate. I've known a number of women who cheated on one husband but not the next. Just like brains, looks, athletic ability, et cetera, some people inherently have more integrity and emotional strength than others. C'est la vi.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Personal said:


> My ex-wife (we were each others firsts; virginity, marriage, child and divorce) who cheated on me once, has according to our daughter cheated on her 2nd husband as well.


I found out from my daughters, independently, that my exH is physically abusive to his wife and they're both cheating. Most of me doesn't care. A part of me :rofl: .


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Great, now even grad students are creating click bait.

Not a shocking conclusion. Though I got to say mailing someone a questionnaire every few months over 5 years asking them whether they are cheating and cheated again isn't likely to ascertain the most honest answers from known liars that you are attempting to measure their level of repeated dishonesty. 

My guess {another article about the study gave some of the numbers - I didn't buy the study} is the numbers break down something like this:

{I'm also not a statistician}:

484 Test subjects (329 women, 155 men - some married and some not)




Kayla Knopp said:


> Those who admitted to having sexual relations outside their relationship were three and a half times more likely to do so in their next relationship as well, Knopp explained to The Huffington Post in an email.
> 
> “This means that of those people who said they had sex with someone else in their first relationship, about 45 percent said they also had outside sexual contact with someone in their next relationship,” Knopp said.


Had to think about what she was saying but it appears to me what she's saying is IF 50% or 242 of the 484 people that responded to her survey question cards over the 5 years of the study said they cheated in relationship #1, then 45% of the persons such persons also indicated they cheated in a subsequent relationship. Then she compared that to the group of 242 respondent who didn't indicate cheating in relationship #1 and only about 13% of them cheated in relationship #2. 45% is about 3.5 times more than 13%, hence the conclusion that they were 3.5 times more likely to cheat. Sounds HUGELY disproportionate, doesn't it, but that really only means 109 of the 242 initial cheaters in relationship #1 cheated again AND 133 {A MAJORITY} DID NOT. That's hardly the "always" found in the title of the study.

That's actually fairly shocking considered these are NOT all married individuals and it's a grad student's mailed questionnaire survey. There's probably a lot of respondant's that presumed their S.O. was simply checking up on them {just kidding}; but, seriously, people taking this study dishonestly will seemingly to me be most likely indicate twice they never cheated and others will, for sport, indicate twice they DID cheat ~ skewing the results of such a small sample size tremendously towards a substantial groups of "I always fill out the card saying I didn't cheat and I always fill out the cards saying "I do cheat ~ all the time' and/or "I'm not afraid to admit it". 

However, previous cheating is certainly a risk factor to consider and it is consistent with the religious beliefs ~~ That when you deny/reject God's plans for us and live life for yourself, that you will just continue on that path of destruction and ever-increasing immorality and consequences.

Here's another scientific study about how the brain adapts to lying that might tell a little more of the story about how "the people of the lie" continue down the path of dishonesty, cheating, entitlement, and selfishness in more of a neuroscience manner: 

The Brain Adapts to Dishonesty




The Brain Adapts to Dishonest Abstract said:


> Dishonesty is an integral part of our social world, influencing domains ranging from finance and politics to personal relationships. Anecdotally, digressions from a moral code are often described as a series of small breaches that grow over time. Here we provide empirical evidence for a gradual escalation of self-serving dishonesty and reveal a neural mechanism supporting it. Behaviorally, we show that the extent to which participants engage in self-serving dishonesty increases with repetition. Using functional MRI, we show that signal reduction in the amygdala is sensitive to the history of dishonest behavior, consistent with adaptation. Critically, the extent of reduced amygdala sensitivity to dishonesty on a present decision relative to the previous one predicts the magnitude of escalation of self-serving dishonesty on the next decision. The findings uncover a biological mechanism that supports a 'slippery slope': what begins as small acts of dishonesty can escalate into larger transgressions.



Kayla Knopp's study is more of a tiny macro-infidelity study whereas the neuroscience study gets more into the micro-infidelity issue of dishonesty, leading to more and more dishonesty and, eventually, things like infidelity. It shows how the brain can take a normal everyday loving spouse in a ho-hum marriage and over the course of several weeks and months, starting with the smallest of mistruths followed by ever expanding lies thereafter become a complete full fledged wayward monster and, if they don't repent or learn any lessons, Knopps shows us they'll be more likely to just do it again and probably again take it even further the 2nd, 3rd and 4th time. Kind of explains why the divorce and infidelity rates of second marriages are so astronomical {makes sense where 2 lying cheaters are involved and cheating seemingly worked for them the first time around}.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

It's like everything in life,the first time is the hardest.After that it gets easier.
If you murder someone when you are eighteen,serve twenty years then spend the next forty years working with homeless people,drug addicts even famine victims it doesn't change the fact that you will always be a murderer.
It's the same with cheating and you don't need a forty page report to explain it.
If you have the propensity to cheat,the opportunity,and you think you will get away with it then you are more likely to cheat than someone without the opportunity.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I think its more about someone's character and integrity as to whether they cheat.




Yes and i think someone who cheats has a huge character flaw that loves the thrill of it.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

sokillme said:


> For a lot of these people there is no line. They just pretend there is in certain company.




Lol.
Yes they have a line...you mean to tell me someone who sticks their &*#% in someone doesn't know they are doing wrong and have crossed a line. Of course they know and of course they know there is a line. They choose or convince themselves it means nothing or is immaterial in order to move forward with the cheating. They use excuses and in some cases even make up excuses to make themselves feel better and allow themselves to go over whatever infidelity line their relationship has and feel that rush of doing it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> Bear in mind, I do not write for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution or own any part of them or anything, but I am actively interested in infidelity and studying it, and this study was recently released by the Center for Marital and Family Studies at the University of Denver:
> 
> Once a cheater, always a cheater? New science study says yes
> 
> ...


*And that's my entire premise in staying single ~ severely burned twice by deceptive unfaithfulness ~ and totally fearful of it coming to occur yet a third time!

And while, just about like most everyone else, I earnestly yearn for the presence of a faithful, married unrequited love, I simply cannot fathom the gut-wrenching prospects of yet another doomed third marriage due to infidelity, or for that matter, any other reason!*


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I can only speak for myself...the scenario once a cheater always a cheater does not apply.


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## Rocket Skates76 (Jun 24, 2017)

You open and walk through a door once, you leave it partially open. It becomes easier to walk thru next time and so on and so forth....
Addicts understand the damage they are inflicting upon themselves and others...but human nature and history are mighty hard to checkmate.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@Affaircare - my question would be what* kind* of affair? Did they step out with multiple APs or an LTA Vs. ONS or EA..my view is the worse the transgression the more damaged the person - so I would be curious to see what types of affairs they are talking about. In my view multiple APs or a LTA that goes on for years does not leave much in its wake to rebuild on. People may stay together but what do they have really?


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

Well ts... as you know I had a very brief affair... not a ons in the traditional definition but a ons in terms of length. That was 34 years ago.

You and I have talked at length about my infidelity and you were so helpful to my john.

I do agree with you that I think situations matter and affairs certainly vary.. which is why I answered the way I did above. I am only responsible for my own actions ... no one else.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Well ts... as you know I had a very brief affair... not a ons in the traditional definition but a ons in terms of length. That was 34 years ago.
> 
> You and I have talked at length about my infidelity and you were so helpful to my john.
> 
> I do agree with you that I think situations matter and affairs certainly vary.. which is why I answered the way I did above. I am only responsible for my own actions ... no one else.


MrsJA - you know I dont look at all affairs the same - YES all are bad but some transgressions cross some serious boundaries - A ONS IS di8fferent from an affair that carries on for years IMO.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

the odds are somewhat against me.

in my past three LTR, two were cheaters and one was borderline. that means (implied by the study) that my picker is broken. 
however I am now five years into my current LTR (4.2 years married) and it's the best relationship i've ever had easily with no cheating.
this current wife has no history of cheating.
the previous cheaters had cheated or shown signs of cheating well before five years.

so, did my picker get fixed, do i have cheating in my future, or did i just get lucky? i think lucky.


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## dawnabon (Mar 11, 2017)

I see this with my STBX - not just with cheating but generalized sneakiness and dishonesty. It's become an ingrained part of his personality. 

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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I can only speak for myself...the scenario once a cheater always a cheater does not apply.


My Husband cheated (and I am unsure if he cheated since, he says he did not )


He says it is possible for people to grow up and be more mature :biggrinangelA:


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

From my experience.....yes.
They do until they fix themselves. 
GO FIX YOURSELF!!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> From my experience.....yes.
> They do until they fix themselves.
> GO FIX YOURSELF!!


QFT that is key - the Ws needs to do serious work on themselves in most cases esp. tghose who had a LTA or multiple APs before R can be considered..too big a risk.


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

Say extra-dyadic 10 times fast. 

Ugh, so how does one permanently fix a broken picker? Would duct-tape help?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> Lol.
> Yes they have a line...you mean to tell me someone who sticks their &*#% in someone doesn't know they are doing wrong and have crossed a line. Of course they know and of course they know there is a line. They choose or convince themselves it means nothing or is immaterial in order to move forward with the cheating. They use excuses and in some cases even make up excuses to make themselves feel better and allow themselves to go over whatever infidelity line their relationship has and feel that rush of doing it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think that have to convince themselves anything. I think they think they are entitled to get whatever the want and have the idea that you only live once. I don't think they even feel guilt. They see life like a game were they are player 1, everyone else is there for their amusement. They know it's wrong in a way that you know crossing a busy highway full of cars going 100 miles an hour is wrong. It may hurt you, but you don't think, this is morally wrong. There is no moral implications to you. See this is what a lot of people don't get about these types of people. I mean the ones who can post on message boards looking for advice about their affair, those types. They don't feel guilt or empathy they only feel bad about getting caught. They don't even feel love for the affair partner they are pining away for, what they feel is infatuation and only that because of the way the affair partner makes them feel about themselves. After they get caught their sorrow is that people think of them differently not that they did a terrible thing to someone. We are just a bunch of NPCs to them.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Well ts... as you know I had a very brief affair... not a ons in the traditional definition but a ons in terms of length. That was 34 years ago.
> 
> You and I have talked at length about my infidelity and you were so helpful to my john.
> 
> I do agree with you that I think situations matter and affairs certainly vary.. which is why I answered the way I did above. I am only responsible for my own actions ... no one else.


What thread was that on? I would like to read it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jorgegene said:


> the odds are somewhat against me.
> 
> in my past three LTR, two were cheaters and one was borderline. that means (implied by the study) that my picker is broken.
> however I am now five years into my current LTR (4.2 years married) and it's the best relationship i've ever had easily with no cheating.
> ...


I think the idea of a picker being broken is to simplistic. It is also about the subtle signals people give out. I believe some people whose so called picker being broken really means that they display social signals that they are the type of person who will put up with the nonsense that these types of cheating people dish out. It is also kind of weeding out process. Someone whose "picker is not broken", my read some shady action from a person they are dating and that will be enough for them to end it right then and there. Where someone whose "picker is broken" will think, "wow we can solve this together" or "they need me", or ever worse "maybe it's me, this is the only type of person who would want to be with me". Not saying this is you or it's everyone but I think it is a common pattern. 

I have grown to believe this is really like a symbiotic relationship like any other in nature. It's what accounts for the people who stay with people who treat them so bad. You see this dichotomy with a certain type of man particularly, and maybe because I am a man I notice it more. (women have one to but that one is talked about a lot more, the abused wife syndrome). To see it in men just go to SI in the just found out section then find a post by a man that has over 10 pages. Now read what they guy posts. Inevitably he will be the worst kind of codependent you can find. He will be paralyzed with fear and willing to put up with way worst then a healthy human being would. A healthy person would have a more likely chance at strangling their WS then making excuses for them, they would have been long gone because of that. That is the thing, this is not a picker being broken its a very unhealthy self image, with a very serious lack of self preservation. Those kinds of traits are really quite attractive to an abuser. It's a symbiotic relationship. That is were the work needs to be done. Why were you willing and feel it acceptable to be treated so badly. Why didn't you stand up for yourself. It really is just the continuation of the school yard bully dynamic. Standing up to a bully is like a right of passage in lots of peoples lives. Once you do it once you rarely get bullied again at least not in the same way. These people have still not done that yet.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So, no hope of redemption, then?

And yes, I know that cheaters will, likely, cheat again. But even so...


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I don't think that have to convince themselves anything. I think they think they are entitled to get whatever the want and have the idea that you only live once. I don't think they even feel guilt. They see life like a game were they are player 1, everyone else is there for their amusement. They know it's wrong in a way that you know crossing a busy highway full of cars going 100 miles an hour is wrong. It may hurt you, but you don't think, this is morally wrong. There is no moral implications to you. See this is what a lot of people don't get about these types of people. I mean the ones who can post on message boards looking for advice about their affair, those types. They don't feel guilt or empathy they only feel bad about getting caught. They don't even feel love for the affair partner they are pining away for, what they feel is infatuation and only that because of the way the affair partner makes them feel about themselves. After they get caught their sorrow is that people think of them differently not that they did a terrible thing to someone. We are just a bunch of NPCs to them.




Perhaps
But I have to believe that everyone had some degree of morality in them that allows
Them to know they are doing wrong.
Perhaps it's idealistic but I can't have such a jaded view.



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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> So, no hope of redemption, then?
> 
> And yes, I know that cheaters will, likely, cheat again. But even so...


*For the most part, I believe that the vast majority of them, just like my unrepentant RSXW, will! 

But by the very same token, I firmly believe that there are some rather noted exceptions to that rule! There are some ladies and gentlemen who have somehow overcame their once sordid actions and have gone on to embrace full contrition, reconciliation and success!

And for that, I heartily commend them!*


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> Perhaps
> But I have to believe that everyone had some degree of morality in them that allows
> Them to know they are doing wrong.
> Perhaps it's idealistic but I can't have such a jaded view.
> ...


How old are you? I never said everyone, I am talking about the really bad ones.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I think the idea of a picker being broken is to simplistic. It is also about the subtle signals people give out. I believe some people whose so called picker being broken really means that they display social signals that they are the type of person who will put up with the nonsense that these types of cheating people dish out. It is also kind of weeding out process. Someone whose "picker is not broken", my read some shady action from a person they are dating and that will be enough for them to end it right then and there. Where someone whose "picker is broken" will think, "wow we can solve this together" or "they need me", or ever worse "maybe it's me, this is the only type of person who would want to be with me". Not saying this is you or it's everyone but I think it is a common pattern.
> 
> I have grown to believe this is really like a symbiotic relationship like any other in nature. It's what accounts for the people who stay with people who treat them so bad. You see this dichotomy with a certain type of man particularly, and maybe because I am a man I notice it more. (women have one to but that one is talked about a lot more, the abused wife syndrome). To see it in men just go to SI in the just found out section then find a post by a man that has over 10 pages. Now read what they guy posts. Inevitably he will be the worst kind of codependent you can find. He will be paralyzed with fear and willing to put up with way worst then a healthy human being would. A healthy person would have a more likely chance at strangling their WS then making excuses for them, they would have been long gone because of that. That is the thing, this is not a picker being broken its a very unhealthy self image, with a very serious lack of self preservation. Those kinds of traits are really quite attractive to an abuser. It's a symbiotic relationship. That is were the work needs to be done. Why were you willing and feel it acceptable to be treated so badly. Why didn't you stand up for yourself. It really is just the continuation of the school yard bully dynamic. Standing up to a bully is like a right of passage in lots of peoples lives. Once you do it once you rarely get bullied again at least not in the same way. These people have still not done that yet.


There is an old joke about some guys trying to unblock a sewer and they are passing buckets of **** to one another to clear the blockage.There is one man standing there just looking at they others working and an engineer asks him why he's not helping.
He says "I don't take **** from anyone"
Be that guy,don't take any ****.
From anyone.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

sokillme said:


> How old are you? I never said everyone, I am talking about the really bad ones.




How old am i? What does that really have to do with it.
Because I feel like everyone even cheaters have to have some sort of morals where they can distinguish right from wrong that puts into question my age?
I'm 37.
Have lived through an affair with two small children.



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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> How old am i? What does that really have to do with it.
> Because I feel like everyone even cheaters have to have some sort of morals where they can distinguish right from wrong that puts into question my age?
> I'm 37.
> Have lived through an affair with two small children.
> ...


If you are not cynical after that you must have been the nicest person ever! Like Melanie Wilkes nice.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

sokillme said:


> If you are not cynical after that you must have been the nicest person ever! Like Melanie Wilkes nice.




As in Gone with the wind Melanie. Although your mention of her is impressive , Comparing me to someone very innocent and unaware of anything happening around her is a bit of an insult. 
Not with standing we can agree to disagree on this point.



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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

sokillme said:


> I think the idea of a picker being broken is to simplistic. It is also about the subtle signals people give out. I believe some people whose so called picker being broken really means that they display social signals that they are the type of person who will put up with the nonsense that these types of cheating people dish out. It is also kind of weeding out process. Someone whose "picker is not broken", my read some shady action from a person they are dating and that will be enough for them to end it right then and there. Where someone whose "picker is broken" will think, "wow we can solve this together" or "they need me", or ever worse "maybe it's me, this is the only type of person who would want to be with me". Not saying this is you or it's everyone but I think it is a common pattern.
> 
> I have grown to believe this is really like a symbiotic relationship like any other in nature. It's what accounts for the people who stay with people who treat them so bad. You see this dichotomy with a certain type of man particularly, and maybe because I am a man I notice it more. (women have one to but that one is talked about a lot more, the abused wife syndrome). To see it in men just go to SI in the just found out section then find a post by a man that has over 10 pages. Now read what they guy posts. Inevitably he will be the worst kind of codependent you can find. He will be paralyzed with fear and willing to put up with way worst then a healthy human being would. A healthy person would have a more likely chance at strangling their WS then making excuses for them, they would have been long gone because of that. That is the thing, this is not a picker being broken its a very unhealthy self image, with a very serious lack of self preservation. Those kinds of traits are really quite attractive to an abuser. It's a symbiotic relationship. That is were the work needs to be done. Why were you willing and feel it acceptable to be treated so badly. Why didn't you stand up for yourself. It really is just the continuation of the school yard bully dynamic. Standing up to a bully is like a right of passage in lots of peoples lives. Once you do it once you rarely get bullied again at least not in the same way. These people have still not done that yet.


Reads as though you are placing blame on the betrayed for not a)standing up for themselves and/or b) bringing the situation on themselves. Both are hooey. Also there are abusive relationships that do not involve infidelity, and non-abusive relationships that do. So I don't believe I agree with your analysis.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Pluto2 said:


> Reads as though you are placing blame on the betrayed for not a)standing up for themselves and/or b) bringing the situation on themselves. Both are hooey. Also there are abusive relationships that do not involve infidelity, and non-abusive relationships that do. So I don't believe I agree with your analysis.


It's not blame, but I do think it explains the dynamic.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> As in Gone with the wind Melanie. Although your mention of her is impressive , Comparing me to someone very innocent and unaware of anything happening around her is a bit of an insult.
> Not with standing we can agree to disagree on this point.
> 
> 
> ...


I see her as determined to see the good in everyone. My perception for at least the movie is that she knew she just refused to think of people that way. It was just a joke anyway. More cynicism from yours truly.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

itsontherocks said:


> I would also concur with the study. People who cheat in life usually just don't limit it in their love life, but in all aspects of their life. I could never understand sticking with a person who's cheated on you. The trust, loyalty and respect are gone.


Wow, thats a characteristic I hadn't considered. Playing loose with the rules elsewhere in their character and life. That seems to make sense. 

Good call.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I see her as determined to see the good in everyone. My perception for at least the movie is that she knew she just refused to think of people that way. It was just a joke anyway. More cynicism from yours truly.




Hmm the book paints a different portrait.
In any case I have broad shoulders lol




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## mcdetroit586 (Mar 5, 2017)

citygirl4344 said:


> How old am i? What does that really have to do with it.
> Because I feel like everyone even cheaters have to have some sort of morals where they can distinguish right from wrong that puts into question my age?
> I'm 37.
> Have lived through an affair with two small children.
> ...


Funny, I read what you typed and had to check to see if I wrote this. I'm also 37, lived through at least one affair, two small children here. Sad thing for me is that I have a small question in the back of my head wondering if my first child is even mine now. He doesn't look much like me, my second child looks exactly like me. I'm 99% he is mine, but the affair makes me wonder.... It's the only one I caught her in, but looking back I feel there were at few more. At least a few one night stands.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I think some old sayings have their basis in proven fact. "The first time is the hardest." comes to mind.
Once someone crosses the boundaries the second time is easier (and quicker).


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mcdetroit586 said:


> Funny, I read what you typed and had to check to see if I wrote this. I'm also 37, lived through at least one affair, two small children here. Sad thing for me is that I have a small question in the back of my head wondering if my first child is even mine now. He doesn't look much like me, my second child looks exactly like me. I'm 99% he is mine, but the affair makes me wonder.... It's the only one I caught her in, but looking back I feel there were at few more. At least a few one night stands.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Since cheating is a character issue and you carry your character with you throughout life I would say cheating again is an almost certainty


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I am not at all surprised by this. That's why I could never be interested in a man who had cheated before. It's amazing how many people marry someone who has cheated on their ex with them, and then are surprised when they do it to them. Duh.


^This. If they do it with you, they'll do it to you.

I couldn't live with what I'd done if I cheated...I can't bear the thought of ever hurting my husband. I think cheaters must die a little on the inside every time they lie to their spouse...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

frusdil said:


> ^This. If they do it with you, they'll do it to you.
> 
> I think cheaters must die a little on the inside every time they lie to their spouse...


No they don't... because they don't have your scruples. They are cheaters.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

mcdetroit586 said:


> Funny, I read what you typed and had to check to see if I wrote this. I'm also 37, lived through at least one affair, two small children here. Sad thing for me is that I have a small question in the back of my head wondering if my first child is even mine now. He doesn't look much like me, my second child looks exactly like me. I'm 99% he is mine, but the affair makes me wonder.... It's the only one I caught her in, but looking back I feel there were at few more. At least a few one night stands.




Unfortunately it's a script that is repeated here a lot. 
Just out of curiosity are you still with her?


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## dawnabon (Mar 11, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> No they don't... because they don't have your scruples. They are cheaters.


I think mine felt terrible the first time. He confessed. But he did it again. And lying to me became much less problematic to him. He lies like he breathes and then is hurt when I don't trust him. 

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## colinda (Jul 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Did they really need a study to tell us this? It's in their nature.
> 
> 
> Duh...
> ...








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## smokefire05 (Aug 24, 2017)

Picker is broken? I think some people ignore signs of infidelity in their relationships and some people do not. The ones that dont ignore the red flags and uncover the truth are eveore watchful for the red flags of infidelity in their next relationship. That could explain why some betrayed exprience infidelity in their next relationship not that their picker is broke but their bullsht detector is dead on.


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

So there is a scientific study that backs up what rappers like Dr Dre have been saying for decades....

You can't make a Ho a Housewife.


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