# Scared



## destination-unknown (Apr 27, 2021)

The fact that I am here, is massive. I generally do not talk to others about any problems until they are sufficiently hurtful. I feel that marital issues should be dealt with between whom they exist and only between whom they exist.

I 100% love my wife ridiculously. As a matter of fact, I literally cried myself to sleep last night because of this raw primal desire for her to which was responded with you cant turn me on, and I don't know how to get turned on, so just let it go.

Generally within the past several years, she pulls away from my touch, hugs, wont kiss me further than a peck. 

She's been through depression after loss. I stood with her until I literally couldn't take it anymore.

Let me be very clear, I am not perfect. During her depression of 5 years, I had an emotional affair as a result of the inability on her part to feel anything toward me. We have worked through that in MC, and I believe we now have a great relationship on an emotional level. This for sure causes me to have a deep desire for my wife that I had lost previously.

Yes there are children involved. I do not want to risk anonymity here by going into details.

As a result of her pushing away from me physically, I now find myself wanting to do less and less for her because it just feels like I'm a best friend now. 
I don't do my best friend's laundry, or clean their room. I don't take care of their children, mow their lawn, etc. I don't allow them to not have to work because I am able to afford for them not to. In addition, my DW wants plenty of additional projects done (as most wives do) saying that I should do those projects first. My response was that sex is not a reward system. She even joked that we should have sex more often, since things get done afterwards. I do not know why she cannot bring herself to do so. She certainly enjoys it every time (I make sure).

There are no "I love you" first from her, just in reply.
There are no kisses initiated from her, only received and reciprocated (barely).
No hugs unless I initiate.
This was nothing like when we met 10 years ago.
I just want my wife back and want to feel wanted and desired by her. Currently I do not. I feel irrelevant outside of providing money and doing any an all house chores necessary.

She says it goes back to her childhood sexual experiences that IC brought up and she needs to work through. I asked if she needs to go back to counseling. No. I'm very patient and had many people tell me to walk away previously during her depression. I can't do that if I do not feel I have exhausted every possible avenue. That said, I currently find myself planning departure in my mind, and its fully opposite of what I want. 

No idea where to head with this, but I'm in a ton of emotional pain as a result.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

destination-unknown said:


> *The fact that I am here, is massive. I generally do not talk to others about any problems until they are sufficiently hurtful. I feel that marital issues should be dealt with between whom they exist and only between whom they exist.*


well that is true initially, after a while if nothing gets resolved, you'll need to involved others (like a counsellor) if you want to try to solve the problem (s).


destination-unknown said:


> *I 100% love my wife ridiculously. As a matter of fact, I literally cried myself to sleep last night because of this raw primal desire for he*r


This is so wrong. There's something lacking within yourself to be able to have such heightening feelings. You are putting someone else first before you. You must love yourself first in order to love someone; otherwise is just sick love. An irrational need that overcomes you. 

*


destination-unknown said:



As a result of her pushing away from me physically, I now find myself wanting to do less and less for her because it just feels like I'm a best friend now.
I don't do my best friend's laundry, or clean their room. I don't take care of their children, mow their lawn, etc. I don't allow them to not have to work because I am able to afford for them not to. In addition, my DW wants plenty of additional projects done (as most wives do) saying that I should do those projects first. My response was that sex is not a reward system. She even joked that we should have sex more often, since things get done afterwards. I do not know why she cannot bring herself to do so. She certainly enjoys it every time (I make sure).

Click to expand...

*


destination-unknown said:


> You are being passive aggressive with your conduct seeking sex. That's pathetic, self serving, and your wife knows it; which triggers her resentment and responds by digging her heels even more. You need man up here, either you accept the status quo or you don't and be over it. No in betweens. Why would you want to be with a woman that has no respect for you, doesn't really desires you, and probably doesn't love you. Please, don't quote your insane love for her that makes you cry (what are you a 14 years old with his first puppy love), because love got nothing to do in this equation. It's your continuous acceptance of the status quo that has you where you are now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

If this all started with a long term depression after a loss, the depression has to be addressed before anything else can be fixed. When you are as depressed as she is you feel nothing. It's all numb & scary. You lose the ability to love. It's really not about you but you get stuck with the aftermath.


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## destination-unknown (Apr 27, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> This is so wrong. There's something lacking within yourself to be able to have such heightening feelings. You are putting someone else first before you. You must love yourself first in order to love someone; otherwise is just sick love. An irrational need that overcomes you.


THANK YOU. I needed that. You aren't incorrect and I do love myself far more than just about anything other than my children and no one can or ever will take that from me. I luckily know exactly who I am and what I want. We are in the early stages of this which is the time to address it, not once it gets to a point of no return. If I get to a point where I have made up my mind to leave, it's a done deal.

Let me a clarify a bit, normally its no big deal and whatever. I had we thought that after a nice evening, with 3 kids not really fighting, everything went well, we actually ate dinner together (rare) and I'd give it a shot. It's extremely rare that I want sex that badly. (FYI, her sex drive previously was higher than mine) and yes this goes back to childhood experiences/abuse. I'm willing to hang tight and work on it with her as long as I know its actually being worked on. It will not be allowed to be a hall pass over a great period of time.

As far as an ultimatum....we ain't there yet. I left one previously because of lack of sex (3x in a year at 25yrs old....ya, no). I probably should have but never give her the option to work on it together.
I'm not trying to leave my wife, but in the end if I have to for my own well being, I have zero problem doing so....when I get to that point.



D0nnivain said:


> If this all started with a long term depression after a loss, the depression has to be addressed before anything else can be fixed. When you are as depressed as she is you feel nothing. It's all numb & scary. You lose the ability to love. It's really not about you but you get stuck with the aftermath.


This is much closer to it. I wont go into details but her depression recovery is relatively newer. I do not believe she is still depressed. She may still be, but its nowhere close to where she was previously.

I'm also well aware that there are 3 sides to every story. (in this case, his, hers, and the truth (which is usually somewhere in the middle)


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

What do you want out of life? She won’t go to IC to fix her issues? 
If you do to much in a relationship you get taken advantage of. Scale it back. She’s not a helpless invalid.

If you want to live your life as a martyr go ahead but it’s not gonna get you much.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I'm sorry. Childhood abuse is the most terrible thing.

One thing I'd ask is if she is on any meds for depression? Sometimes those can affect sexual functioning. 



destination-unknown said:


> I believe we now have a great relationship on an emotional level.


That seems hard to believe. Is she now saying _"I'm so sorry that I can't give you what you need" _? Because if you had a good emotional relationship, I'd expect her to be expressing great empathy and apology for _your_ situation. 


destination-unknown said:


> My response was that sex is not a reward system. She even joked that we should have sex more often, since things get done afterwards.


This transactional idea of sex is not a good emotional relationship, but could well be an after-effect of her abuse.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

It sounds to me like this lack of affection and desire is a relatively recent thing, and that it wasn't an issue early on, or when you were dating.

If that is the case, this whole narrative about childhood abuse, depression, etc. goes right out the window. 

Your main problem isn't your wife: it is your lack of self-esteem, your willingness to get walked on, and a martyr complex. Have you kept yourself in shape? Do you take care of yourself and your appearance? Do you have friends and connections outside the marriage?

Your wife isn't treating you with respect or consideration. I would have been out the door long ago. There is no reason you have to put up with this, and you need to stop gaslighting yourself by saying "but I love her"!!! Yeah, you love the abstract idea of being in love with a great wife: that isn't your situation my man.

Now divorce is tricky if kids are involved, and it is also much worse for the guy. But there are other avenues available to you. Some options:

1. Sit her ass down and explain to her that you are not happy, that the marriage has turned into a roommate situation, and that you don't want to hear her excuses and justifications.
2. Tell her that this narrative involving depression, abuse, whatever, is a smoke screen to get away with treating you like crap, and getting you to lower your expectations. Many of us, myself included, have had bad experiences, deal with depression from time to time, and still treat our spouses with love and affection.
3. If the conversation goes nowhere, ask her for an open marriage
4. and if that goes nowhere, ignore your roommate wife and start looking for something on the side


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Laurentium said:


> That seems hard to believe. Is she now saying _"I'm so sorry that I can't give you what you need" _? *Because if you had a good emotional relationship, I'd expect her to be expressing great empathy and apology for your situation.*


Oh THANK YOU for posting this -- I think so many people MISS this very point of how a truly caring, reciprocal relationship is supposed to work, even when there is a mismatch of NEEDS (sexual or otherwise)!!


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

How often do you guys currently have sex? 
Was she more affectionate and loving 2 years ago? Or 5+ years ago? 

Clearly it’s not only about sex, because you seem to be feeling like she isn’t pulling her own weight around the house as well as putting in effort into the relationship.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

You can't negotiate genuine desire from another person.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

One thing stands out that may be the missing puzzle piece: you had an emotional affair while she was battling depression and also, ‘you tried to be there until you couldn’t’ and thus emotional affair. So it stands out that you’ve put the blame for the emotional affair on her. Put simply, you bailed when things were hard for her. 

To an unwell person that is a double betrayal. 

Tell us more about the emotional affair and what your wife needed back then? 

Did you go to see a counsellor or have some therapy as a carer for a person suffering from depression? I understand how difficult it is to support a person who is unwell, it can be a shock when marriage and life throws curveballs at us like death, grief, illness. These situations are always temporary and there are wonderful supports for partners struggling - support groups, doctors and the like. 

So moving forward, you are having feelings and you love her so much. This is a good thing, it’s human. One person has to go first, right? And these feelings don’t seem forced, so I am really happy to hear that she’s finally getting what she needs from you - hold tight though, the wall may still be up. As I said, life is actually long, not short, so time really does change the flow. 

Unless she’s actually saying she wants to leave you, it may be that she’s still hurt in some way. This all takes time. I wish you both well, and I hope she opens up soon and feels that love from you and you can both move forward.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

destination-unknown said:


> Let me be very clear, I am not perfect. During her depression of 5 years, *I had an emotional affair as a result of the inability on her part *to feel anything toward me.


Nope. You cheated because you chose to. Own it. The rest of your post I can understand, but not that.

Living with someone with depression will suck the life out of you. They take and take and take, it's a very self indulgent illness. What is she doing about getting well? Is she seeing a doctor? On medication?

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. If she won't help herself, you can't help her. Sometimes you have to save yourself - and the children.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If you are determined to stay in the marriage and I would just suggest you keep acting like a partner although that does not mean that she can stop work. But I don't think you should go on strike just because you aren't getting sex. Currently you are in a legal partnership.. why start acting passive aggressive and let it get even uglier than it is now and deteriorate. If that is truly your mindset you should just get out. 

If you're determined to stay, be a supportive partner and maybe set yourself a time limit how long you're willing to wait and only wait if she is actively working on her depression with therapy or whatever it takes. 

Laurintium mentioned that meds can make sexual feelings lesson, but there are also some meds for depression that can actually be a sexual stimulant although I wouldn't think that was a good idea before she works through her problems and comes around naturally. No matter that you went through marriage counseling it is my opinion that people never really get over cheating so that is certainly slowing down this whole process.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Also, ‘I don’t take care of their children’ is concerning - you have children together?

Please keep parenting and view them as ‘our children’.


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## destination-unknown (Apr 27, 2021)

At the risk of giving too much if this is ever found.

Early relationship - perfect obviously.
She smoked, I didnt. She kicked it. I came home one night and she said I want to stop this and I'm going to need your help. Great, lets do it, and she did.
2 years in, we both knew we were staying together and decided we wanted children together. (She had one from prev relationship which turned physically abusive)
- several miscarries here
3.5 years - DS born (my first) - death of child @ 3 days old (I had an extremely great friend who helped me through this mentally, he has since passed as well)
4.5 years - DD born
5 yrs - we Wed
- 2-3 years later I started to question things since something seemed off and my wife had changed significantly, but she was also very reassuring during this time and I assumed it was related to having a new(er) child.
5.5-6 yrs - Somewhere in here is where emotional affair came in without me really realizing it. (coworker/friend for about 3-4mo), I ended it and cut off all contact with that individual, she left the workplace. I am not deflecting blame here. This one is 100% on me. I cant change what happened, but own it, learn and grow from it. To my knowledge, we've moved past this.
6.5-8yrs - MC for us and IC for her. I have now found out that this apparently brought up sexual abuse during her childhood back to the surface which is something she needs to work through.
8-10 years - Lost her mother (extensive cancer battle)....but our relationship progressively getting better, unintentionally had another DS 7months ago and seems to have gone backwards somehow.


Now to some prev questions.



Girl_power said:


> How often do you guys currently have sex?


Originally, several times a week. Over time, 1-2x weekly. Currently, 1x a month at best. It's not really about frequency for me, but the desire to feel wanted by my wife. With a LO, I expect it to be a lot less frequent. Once every several weeks is not IMO over the top.




Luckylucky said:


> One thing stands out that may be the missing puzzle piece: you had an emotional affair while she was battling depression and also, ‘you tried to be there until you couldn’t’ and thus emotional affair. So it stands out that you’ve put the blame for the emotional affair on her. Put simply, you bailed when things were hard for her.
> 
> To an unwell person that is a double betrayal.
> 
> ...


Read above, there's a lot of pain here, none of which is anyone's fault really. Best analogy I have is that we were handed a sh*t sandwich and were told we had to eat it. The intention was not ever to place blame to her for affair. I can see how that came across initially. My apologies for not making it clear.



frusdil said:


> Nope. You cheated because you chose to. Own it. The rest of your post I can understand, but not that.
> 
> Living with someone with depression will suck the life out of you. They take and take and take, it's a very self indulgent illness. What is she doing about getting well? Is she seeing a doctor? On medication?
> 
> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. If she won't help herself, you can't help her. Sometimes you have to save yourself - and the children.


I was there and we've had that ultimatum previously. She got the help, and is no longer depressed AFAIK, and I can spot it a lot easier and quicker now. I was picking up as she continually did less and less and less to the point I didn't know why she was in our home.




DownByTheRiver said:


> If you are determined to stay in the marriage and I would just suggest you keep acting like a partner although that does not mean that she can stop work. But I don't think you should go on strike just because you aren't getting sex. Currently you are in a legal partnership.. why start acting passive aggressive and let it get even uglier than it is now and deteriorate. If that is truly your mindset you should just get out.
> 
> If you're determined to stay, be a supportive partner and maybe set yourself a time limit how long you're willing to wait and only wait if she is actively working on her depression with therapy or whatever it takes.
> 
> Laurintium mentioned that meds can make sexual feelings lesson, but there are also some meds for depression that can actually be a sexual stimulant although I wouldn't think that was a good idea before she works through her problems and comes around naturally. No matter that you went through marriage counseling it is my opinion that people never really get over cheating so that is certainly slowing down this whole process.


I don't want to stop doing for my wife. At some point however, anyone will stop giving is there is no give-back. Currently I have not stopped doing anything. We sort of fell into normal gender roles, but I have no problem doing any and/or all house chores here and there to help out.




Luckylucky said:


> Also, ‘I don’t take care of their children’ is concerning - you have children together?
> 
> Please keep parenting and view them as ‘our children’.


I dont take care of my friends' children was the premise here. I absolutely love, adore, and take care of our (mine and my wife's) children.


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## destination-unknown (Apr 27, 2021)

Manner1067 said:


> It sounds to me like this lack of affection and desire is a relatively recent thing, and that it wasn't an issue early on, or when you were dating. -- *correct*
> 
> Your main problem isn't your wife: it is your lack of self-esteem, your willingness to get walked on, and a martyr complex. *-- or my patience is excessive to the the point of a fault, but you could be right.*
> Have you kept yourself in shape? - *round is a shape right? (jk, I'm fairly tall, 165lb with a swimmers body)*
> ...


My apologies as I missed yours in the previous post.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

destination-unknown said:


> There are no "I love you" first from her, just in reply.
> There are no kisses initiated from her, only received and reciprocated (barely).
> No hugs unless I initiate.


Granted, her depression could have something to do with ^^this^^ but it sounds to me like she's fallen out of love with you. Does she have other friends and/or family members with whom she interacts? Do those relationships seem better than the one you two currently have?



destination-unknown said:


> She says it goes back to her childhood sexual experiences that IC brought up and she needs to work through. I asked if she needs to go back to counseling. No.


If she wants to work through her childhood issues, she needs to give IC another try. If she's unwilling to do so, then it could be the issues aren't as troubling as she says. Could she be using this as an excuse to remain distant from you?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Losing a child, newborn or not, is a gigantic loss that will change you forever. It was a bad period for her too because piled onto that was you having the emotional affair. It's a likely avenue that led her to lose respect for you. You were happy go lucky enough to have interest in another woman after the loss of your baby. Likely, that was the very last thing on her mind. I realize everyone deals with grief different ways, but for a mother, that grief is acute and she would resent if she perceived she was the only one that affected by it. 

On top of that, the childhood abuse. 

Honestly, she can't focus on you right now. Depression is overwhelming. She probably has trouble even making a grocery list. She has herself to try to live with and manage and her mental health. The best thing you can do is support and stay out of her way, essentially, and let her breathe and no pressure. But again, you have a right to a life too, so you should set some sort of time limit in your mind after which you would have to move on if this looks like something that's not going to change sometime for the better and if she is no longer trying to work through it with a psychologist. 

And honestly, there are a lot of people out there with mental health problems who are resistant to medical treatment, and I have to say, if she's one of those who doesn't believe in taking antidepressants, my time limit would be pretty short. They have to want to help themselves. I know the severely depressed are not thinking clearly and are often just avoiding thinking at all. Been there. But it's a box she has to fight her way out of by cooperating with treatment.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

destination-unknown said:


> 3.5 years - DS born (my first) - death of child @ 3 days old


Oh, man, I am so sorry. This is huge, and could be a big contributing factor to your problems.


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