# What would the AP have to do for you to forgive them?



## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

I understand giving forgiveness to your significant other after they have earned it. I have always played with a thought what would the affair partner have to do to receive forgiveness from me. 

To contemplate forgiveness he would have to write his family and explain to them he had the affair with my wife because he wanted to and not because "I was such a horrible person that when he was nice to my wife she fell for him and he was just caught off guard". He would also need to write a letter of apology to my wife and me for lying to both of us. He would need to write a letter of confession about the affair and get it notarized so I can keep a hold of it for future needs. Then lastly he would need to let me punch him as hard as I can in the face without retaliation. At that point I would contemplate forgiving him.

You might think is a bit harsh. I am not religious and don't have a dogma interfering with my judgement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Well? Obviously none of that would ever ever happen. So to answer your own question, you could never ever forgive the affair partner.

Nor could I.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

What would the AP have to do for you to forgive them?

Hari Kari????

Just kidding...sort of...


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

There will never be forgiveness. I will carry a dark and vile hatred to my grave. **** Him!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Forgiveness is for you. Give it freely. Now, trust....trust is a different story. That mountain is too high to climb.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I understand giving forgiveness to your significant other after they have earned it. I have always played with a thought what would the affair partner have to do to receive forgiveness from me.
> 
> To contemplate forgiveness he would have to write his family and explain to them he had the affair with my wife because he wanted to and not because "I was such a horrible person that when he was nice to my wife she fell for him and he was just caught off guard". He would also need to write a letter of apology to my wife and me for lying to both of us. He would need to write a letter of confession about the affair and get it notarized so I can keep a hold of it for future needs. Then lastly he would need to let me punch him as hard as I can in the face without retaliation. At that point I would contemplate forgiving him.
> 
> ...


Since I don't know him, and have no desire to ever get to know him.. I can never forgive him.. 

I'd prefer a front ball kick to the nuts, then a roundhouse kick to the jaw.. over a punch.. it wouldn't help me forgive, but it'd sure as hell feel good watching his chicklets fly across the room..


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Well? Obviously none of that would ever ever happen. So to answer your own question, you could never ever forgive the affair partner.
> 
> Nor could I.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I have a friend who is in the same religious denomination and his wife after having an affair was asked or required I'm not sure which by the counselor or their bishop to write a letter of apology to the family and to talk to the other man's wife in person apologizing and asking for forgiveness. I'm not sure if this is just the request of the particular counselor or bishop or if it was a set rules for the religion. Because of this I am expecting an apology sometime in the future. 
I don't believe I will because from what I know the other man and his wife are not going to marriage counseling. Apparently she is sweeping everything under a rug. But I don't expect her to act otherwise because he has told her and his family a completely different story than what happened. I believe this was an effort for damage control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

There is no forgiveness--this implies to me some kind of bond with the other person. The best I can do is complete disinterest--not there yet, though.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

never come around never be seen or heard from again

well i guess that would not be forgiveness.

IDK i would not waste my time and energy


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm not sure why I'd need to forgive them? They aren't important enough for me to bother with hating, or even to think about much at all. 

Even the LT EA partner who was (supposedly) a good friend of mine doesn't really get much in the way of headspace from me. I would never trust her again, I don't want to be friends, I don't spend time with her, but mostly what I feel at this point is a sort of vague disappointment that's nearly overwhelmed by apathy.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

This does bring up an interesting discussion. As WOM indicated above, forgiveness is more for your own peace of mind as opposed to providing other people comfort, although people who are close to you will want your forgiveness in order to feel closure.

A BS is hurt many times more by his/her WS than by the actions of the AP - except in cases where the AP is a family member or close friend - yet the BS is more inclined to forgive the person who hurt him/her most while maintain hatred for the AP. On the surface it seems rather odd. However, I think the reason a BS is more inclined to forgive the WS is because the WS will (typically) show regret and seek forgiveness whereas the AP won't. 

In reality, since an AP almost never seeks forgiveness from spouse of his/her affair partner, then the fantasy situations written in the OP will never come to pass. Then, it's all up to the BS to forgive the AP as a sign that he/she will no longer give the AP "power" over their lives.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I promise to forgive all of you guys who want to punch the OM in the face, throat or crotch. You have my blessing!


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

I could probably forgive the AP.......shortly after I watch him burned at the stake
:FIREdevil:


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Rowan said:


> I'm not sure why I'd need to forgive them? *They aren't important enough for me to bother* with hating, or even to think about much at all.
> 
> *Even the LT EA partner who was (supposedly) a good friend of mine doesn't really get much in the way of headspace from me.* I would never trust her again, I don't want to be friends, I don't spend time with her, but mostly what I feel at this point is a sort of vague disappointment that's nearly overwhelmed by apathy.


In a sense, you have forgiven the AP. I think this is healthy, because as indicated in the parts in bold, the AP's no longer affect your life.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

I would forgive him the moment my finger pulled the trigger. I guess it's bad karma to wish bad things on people but I won't shed a tear if I hear of his untimely death you know hit by a train, eaten by a shark, chokes on is own vomit, has a rattlesnake bit him on his d1ck and it takes him 2 weeks to die.
No, I haven't really thought about it.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

What if your WS married their AP, and that person was stuck in your life because you have kids together? 

Just wondering... This happened to me (but I was one of the kids).


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> I could probably forgive the AP.......shortly after I watch him burned at the stake
> :FIREdevil:


C'mon, JA, quit mincing words. How do you REALLY feel....?


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

It can be done...I did it. It wasn't easy. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/63539-my-unusual-journey-ow.html

I just found out yesterday that she drastically changed her life around since she slept with him and especially since that Christmas, has made sure to lead a kinder and more honest life. 

She wears the necklace all the time. 

I am not bragging, most can't do what I did and I don't blame them. It was the hardest thing I ever did...and sometimes I still find myself hating her for a few moments.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I have a friend who is in the same religious denomination and his wife after having an affair was asked or required I'm not sure which by the counselor or their bishop to write a letter of apology to the family and to talk to the other man's wife in person apologizing and asking for forgiveness. I'm not sure if this is just the request of the particular counselor or bishop or if it was a set rules for the religion. Because of this I am expecting an apology sometime in the future.
> I don't believe I will because from what I know the other man and his wife are not going to marriage counseling. Apparently she is sweeping everything under a rug. But I don't expect her to act otherwise because he has told her and his family a completely different story than what happened. I believe this was an effort for damage control.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If someone has to ask you to write an apology, and you do it with a gun to your head, is it really an apology?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Ya I was just gonna say that.. what the heck is it with all this letter writing?

Any fool can write a letter apologizing. It's meaningless.

I really don't see much use in forgiving the AP. I can see a lot of merit in remaining forever vigilant towards them.

Fool me twice.. shame on me.. right?


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> What if your WS married their AP, and that person was stuck in your life because you have kids together?
> 
> Just wondering... This happened to me (but I was one of the kids).


My DD's best friend split her time between her divorced parents. They split when she was a tween because daddy found a younger/prettier "mommy". This was a very wealthy family so daddy tried to appease everyone with cars, houses and money. DD's friend never accepted her new "mommy" and spent years having fun with her with activities like keying her car repeatedly, gluing her Manolos to the close shelf, cutting her clothes, etc. Let's just say the girl's real mother never discouraged her from these activities. 

WS tend to forget important details like their children's mental health.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

lisab0105 said:


> It can be done...I did it. It wasn't easy.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/63539-my-unusual-journey-ow.html
> 
> ...


Pretty impressive, actually, on your part and hers.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Thought I would add;

It is hard enough to try and forgive one person the thought of trying to forgive someone else for the same sin someone who I have no vested interest in , someone who tried to destroy my family and take what I have for no other reason than their own sick pleasure and someone that I never wronged never did anything to deserve this from them.

:2gunsfiring_v1: F*ck No


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I am assuming that the Bishop is a Mormon Bishop, Please remember these leaders have no formal training in MC and or IC they are members in good standing with the church. The letter writing is a standard thing to ask apologize for a sin against another.

I will not ever be able to forgive the AP, why should I? What would be a good reason to even think about it?

I have often thought of ways I would like that POS to suffer and I knew this POS for over 30 years. and he was always a POS


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

Objectively I have no problem with affair partners unless they themselves are married to someone else. 

I think they're bad people doing bad things but someone who enters into a marriage is responsible for his/her actions. They're supposed to know that at some point they'll be tempted. They're supposed to be ready. 

It might be a little easier for me to forgive because I see an OM/OW as someone who has an exceedingly shallow and fragmented understanding of what love is, and they have to live with that. I'm not making a statement with suppressed indignation here, I mean that. In short, the affair in and of itself is their punishment, and something they have to work through later on in life.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

DarkHoly said:


> In short, the affair in and of itself is their punishment, and something they have to work through later on in life.


I agree. After the anger subsided I realized out of all the people my wife hurt during the affair she hurt herself the most.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

:smthumbup:

I'm just thinking about the karma bus that has been smashing into POS OM recently - with vstbxw at the wheel!

Do I want that to stop - Ever ?

Not for a second - revenge is sweet 

:rofl:

On a serious note I would not wish anything real bad on him but should something happen in his life that I would normally be horror struck by for all other people then I wouldn't bat an eye lid 

Fk him


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

DarkHoly said:


> Objectively I have no problem with affair partners unless they themselves are married to someone else.


:scratchhead:




DarkHoly said:


> I think they're bad people doing bad things but someone who enters into a marriage is responsible for his/her actions. They're supposed to know that at some point they'll be tempted. They're supposed to be ready.


They are both tempted, and as adults both are expected to be ready for that.

I really don't get why it's OK for a single person to act on the temptation of a married person, but it's not OK for a married person to act on the temptation of a single person?

They are both cheating the betrayed spouse out of a healthy marriage. They are both lying by omission. They are both conspiring to sabotage a home, a marriage, and a family.



DarkHoly said:


> It might be a little easier for me to forgive because I see an OM/OW as someone who has an exceedingly shallow and fragmented understanding of what love is, and they have to live with that.


And how does that differ from a married wayward?



DarkHoly said:


> I'm not making a statement with suppressed indignation here, I mean that. In short, the affair in and of itself is their punishment, and something they have to work through later on in life.


Both cheaters have to live with it.

The only difference is the AP gets off the hook, while the wayward has to work through the mess.

To my mind this is akin to a bank robbery with two criminals, but only one gets thrown in prison while the other has run off to mexico.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

I don't get how people forgive their spouses but stay mad at the AP. They both mutually conspired to stab you in the back. I mean what's the difference in their actions? Further, I hold the WS more accountable because they are the one who took the vows. Scum like the AP will always be out there and if wasn't that person it would of been some one else. The WS was 50% responsible for protecting the marriage. I will also never buy into this bull that the WS was somehow tricked or coerced into cheating on the BS they loved by the AP. It's complete rubbish... They knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they threw your marriage under the bus.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't get how people forgive their spouses but stay mad at the AP. They both mutually conspired to stab you in the back. I mean what's the difference in their actions? Further, I hold the WS more accountable because they are the one who took the vows. Scum like the AP will always be out there and if wasn't that person it would of been some one else. The WS was 50% responsible for protecting the marriage. I will also never buy into this bull that the WS was somehow tricked or coerced into cheating on the BS they loved by the AP. It's complete rubbish... They knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they threw your marriage under the bus.


You are vested with the Ws, long term relationship, marriage, kids you just don't have those connections with the AP.

The WS is certainly responsible for their part in the affair maybe more than the AP because they are betraying a vow they made to you.
But you never did anything to the AP to cause them to treat you so poorly.
If you and I have been arguing and I punch you then even though it was wrong to hit you at least there is some kind of reason and explanation.
Unless the WS lied to the AP and they thought the WS was single they can get a break if not they know the WS is married and it is wrong so yeah you deliberately fool around with a married person it gives me a right to hate you to wish all the pain and suffering imaginable on your scum head.


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## standinginthegap (Jan 16, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Forgiveness is for you. Give it freely.


:iagree:
This is so true, un-forgiveness is something that eats away at you on the inside. It hurts you more than the other person, while they are walking around living their life all freely no cares in the world, you on the other hand still have all of the pain, hurt, resentment and whatever else feeling on the inside because you refuse to let go and forgive. This is one of the first steps to healing, forgiveness. Once you do you are able to let go of those feelings attached with the un-forgiveness. Not saying you would forget the events but once you truly forgive the other person you will no longer feel that pain. You will remember but the feelings won't be there.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

+1 to forgiveness. It is such a conscious and amazing thing to learn to let go.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

He would have to take my wife with him.


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## standinginthegap (Jan 16, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't get how people forgive their spouses but stay mad at the AP.


Right, I was more mad at my spouse than anything because he is the one I am married to.

I mean there are some cases where the AP didn't know the WS was married, this is somewhat understandable but doesn't make it alright but I do believe that once the AP was to find out that there is a Mrs or Mr, they should respectfully bow out. 

What I don't understand is AP who are fully aware of the marriage and they still proceed, and even if it was the married person who did the going after they allowed it when they said yes or whatever it is that they said.

But ultimately whatever the situation was the WS is the one the BS is married too, so they are the ones who are at fault. You are married to your spouse not the other person.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't get how people forgive their spouses but stay mad at the AP. They both mutually conspired to stab you in the back.


In our case quite simple.

POSOM actively pursued my wife. He smelled blood in the water around our marriage and took advantage of if for his own gain. Sold her on his bull**** lines about his money, his past..... It is a pattern with him as he was at the time married to wife number 3 and it's a solid bet that wives number 2 & 3 had something to do with the demise of the previous marriage. He started it with simple chats and joke exchanges and escalated it every time he felt it was safe. Moving forward with planning a trip to our town which was ca-bashed upon my discovery. My wife understood her accountability in all of this but quite frankly she was duped by a bull**** artist. 

I am by nature and religion a very forgiving person but in this case I refuse to consider forgiveness. This man attacked my marriage for his own personal gain and didn't care who got hurt in the process. *Including my children!* And for that, I refuse to forgive.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The analogy neglects to cover several important factors. For the person who is betrayed, the AP has no agreement, understanding, contract, or perhaps even acquaintence. There is at the end of all things no reason for the AP to have any regard for the betrayed spouse. Why would they? You may say because it's a matter of humand decency but people have varying degrees of thought on what that means or entails. A marriage is an agreement between two people- they have stated both in word and contract that they will, among many other things, be faithful to each other. Someone's spouse has promised to be faithful. A total stranger has promised nothing. 

I think people here need to get past their personal quandaries of what "ought", and come to terms with what is. A guy who rails someone else's wife is a creep to be sure. But unless he resolved at some point in his life to stop being a creep, you can't really be surprised or angry when he tries to take something that doesn't belong to him. It's your spouse you come to trust, love, and expect faithfulness from. 

In short, it's different because you married your spouse, not the affair partner.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> In our case quite simple.
> 
> POSOM actively pursued my wife. He smelled blood in the water around our marriage and took advantage of if for his own gain. Sold her on his bull**** lines about his money, his past..... It is a pattern with him as he was at the time married to wife number 3 and it's a solid bet that wives number 2 & 3 had something to do with the demise of the previous marriage. He started it with simple chats and joke exchanges and escalated it every time he felt it was safe. Moving forward with planning a trip to our town which was ca-bashed upon my discovery. My wife understood her accountability in all of this but quite frankly she was duped by a bull**** artist.
> 
> I am by nature and religion a very forgiving person but in this case I refuse to consider forgiveness. This man attacked my marriage for his own personal gain and didn't care who got hurt in the process. *Including my children!* And for that, I refuse to forgive.


I can respect this.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

For me to forgive the POSOM; let's see:

He'd have to put himself on chearterville.com, to include an apology - then send a link to his family and everyone he knows.

He'd have to send me an apology letter, begging for forgiveness.

After he did that, I'd tell him I'd forgive him if he would take a hand gun and shoot off his testicles.

After he shot off his testicles, I'd visit him in the hospital to tell him I changed my mind.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

The OM in my case was my stepsons "father", sperm donor really.
I never told his wife. It was the only way to make sure he stayed away since he has legal rights to see his son if he wanted. i couldnt imagine having to deal with him every other weekend.

Anyways, he offered to give up ever seeing his son again if I stayed quiet. I blame them both, but I'm not mad at him like I am my wife. She made vows to me, I gave her my life, he didnt owe me anything other than thanks for raising his son.

In a way, my wife got the short end of the stick. She had to see that she risked everything she had, her childrens happiness, her sons well being, all for a complete loser who threw away his son to save his ass. She saw her world fall apart and shes left trying to rebuild it. She knows he is going on like nothing happened. Shes going through all this and for what?


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> In our case quite simple.
> 
> POSOM actively pursued my wife. He smelled blood in the water around our marriage and took advantage of if for his own gain. Sold her on his bull**** lines about his money, his past..... It is a pattern with him as he was at the time married to wife number 3 and it's a solid bet that wives number 2 & 3 had something to do with the demise of the previous marriage. He started it with simple chats and joke exchanges and escalated it every time he felt it was safe. Moving forward with planning a trip to our town which was ca-bashed upon my discovery. My wife understood her accountability in all of this but quite frankly she was duped by a bull**** artist.
> 
> I am by nature and religion a very forgiving person but in this case I refuse to consider forgiveness. This man attacked my marriage for his own personal gain and didn't care who got hurt in the process. *Including my children!* And for that, I refuse to forgive.


No disrespect, but those same tactics did not work on other wives. He did nothing she did not allow. Its a cop out to try to push most of the fault at the POSOM. He deserves some. Show him no mercy, but your wife earned the lion's share.

Unless she was drugged or forced she is the one who allowed the fox in. Saying she was duped is another cop out.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

illwill said:


> No disrespect, but those same tactics did not work on other wives. He did nothing she did not allow. Its a cop out to try to push most of the fault at the POSOM. He deserves some. Show him no mercy, but your wife earned the lion's share.
> 
> Unless she was drugged or forced she is the one who allowed the fox in. Saying she was duped is another cop out.


I have to agree with this.. saying she was weak, vulnerable.. etc.. is almost the same as saying they are stupid. Right after dday, my wife tried the 'It's because I'm stupid' thing, and I told her that she must be pretty smart to deceive me so well for so long, that I'm not stupid, so she can't be all that dumb.. I told her that lots of effort and planning goes into cheating, by both parties.. The whole 'smelled blood around my marriage'.. so every time your in a low point in your marriage, you're going to cheat? Another lame excuse... "oh, he pursued me..." Bull.. I also told my wife that since I can't trust her, if I'm going to R, I'm going to assume she was the aggressor and the one that did all the pursuing.. or at least sent out the 'available' flares..


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> In our case quite simple.
> 
> POSOM actively pursued my wife. He smelled blood in the water around our marriage and took advantage of if for his own gain. Sold her on his bull**** lines about his money, his past..... It is a pattern with him as he was at the time married to wife number 3 and it's a solid bet that wives number 2 & 3 had something to do with the demise of the previous marriage. He started it with simple chats and joke exchanges and escalated it every time he felt it was safe. Moving forward with planning a trip to our town which was ca-bashed upon my discovery. My wife understood her accountability in all of this but quite frankly she was duped by a bull**** artist.
> 
> I am by nature and religion a very forgiving person but in this case I refuse to consider forgiveness. This man attacked my marriage for his own personal gain and didn't care who got hurt in the process. *Including my children!* And for that, I refuse to forgive.


The children part pisses me off too.. thinking that both of them, weren't thinking about the children... just as I'm upset with the OM for attacking my marriage and children, I was more upset with my wife for allowing it, and not keeping us safe. Of course he was going to do what he does, that's how some men work.. She was well aware of that situation, and chose to ignore it and put her own selfish needs and her OM in front of her children and family. She wasn't forced by the OM, he just did was scumbag guys that don't care about if a woman is married or not, or has kids or not does.. gets some on the side. She just did what people that cheat do, call it what you want.. she 'fell for it', was 'duped into it'.. 'tricked'.... I say she 'wanted to go there, and chose to, knowing full well what she was doing'...


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Problem is, this would assume that the suck ass AP wants our forgiveness. They had no qualms about f****g our spouses, do you really think they give a shyte about us forgiving them?

I'd imagine an AP would go brag to their friends about how they could F your spouse and get you to forgive them for it.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> In our case quite simple.
> 
> POSOM actively pursued my wife. He smelled blood in the water around our marriage and took advantage of if for his own gain. Sold her on his bull**** lines about his money, his past..... It is a pattern with him as he was at the time married to wife number 3 and it's a solid bet that wives number 2 & 3 had something to do with the demise of the previous marriage. He started it with simple chats and joke exchanges and escalated it every time he felt it was safe. Moving forward with planning a trip to our town which was ca-bashed upon my discovery. My wife understood her accountability in all of this but quite frankly she was duped by a bull**** artist.
> 
> I am by nature and religion a very forgiving person but in this case I refuse to consider forgiveness. This man attacked my marriage for his own personal gain and didn't care who got hurt in the process. *Including my children!* And for that, I refuse to forgive.


OK, first off before the bashing begins. My wife is fully responsible for her affair. She did not blame the OM. Second, I know it was my wife's choice. She had multiple chances to change her mind and not proceed.

With that out of the way, I think the other man is a complete piece of sh##. He was a person in authority over her (teacher). He was a very experienced womanizer. He targeted her in class, not outside of the classroom. He plotted a plan to get her to his apartment. He took advantage of her knowing she was a married woman. I think there are players out there that know how to take advantage of vulnerable people. It was a game to him. He went for the score and won. I think he took pleasure in taking another man's wife. Back to the original disclaimer. My wife knew what she was doing (although she was very naive at the time). She could have stopped. My wife and I have lived with 30 years of consequences. He was hitting on other students the next semester.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I think if I had successfully moved on and once I was happy, forgiveness would come naturally. I find holding grudges to be very draining, so I don't.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> I think if I had successfully moved on and once I was happy, forgiveness would come naturally. I find holding grudges to be very draining, so I don't.


"Sometimes we must choose between what is Right and what is Easy." ~Dumbledore

we don't hold grudges because it is easy we hold grudges because it is right!
_This comment was meant to be humorous._


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I'll forgive the AP after I chock the life out of him.
For threatening my family,threats to rape my wife and taunting me with text and
calls for a year and a half.
Although I did ruin his life pretty much....it felt good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Why would you want or need to forgive the affair partner?


The only instance I can think of would be if they ended up with your spouse and there were kids involved. I know I have a different take on this than most, but I think hatred, grudges, etc. take up far too much energy than they are worth. 

I could use my ex as an example... He didn't cheat, but he was abusive. I could hate him for the after-effects that I still deal with - fear, trust, PTSD... but how will that help me? 

Just let it go. Live YOUR life, and feel lucky yours doesn't have to be enmeshed with someone that didn't deserve you any longer.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't get how people forgive their spouses but stay mad at the AP. They both mutually conspired to stab you in the back. I mean what's the difference in their actions? Further, I hold the WS more accountable because they are the one who took the vows. Scum like the AP will always be out there and if wasn't that person it would of been some one else. The WS was 50% responsible for protecting the marriage. I will also never buy into this bull that the WS was somehow tricked or coerced into cheating on the BS they loved by the AP. It's complete rubbish... They knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they threw your marriage under the bus.


Forgive me if I didn't scroll down far enough and someone already said this, but the reason you can forgive the WS first is because you are giving the WS a chance to redeem themselves with remorse, effort, love, etc, whereas the AP is just gone - your vision of the AP stays exactly where it was when the A happened.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Thanks, it's something I didn't consider and I had to deal with my x1 marrying the AP. x1 and I do have children together. What I found was that I did not have to forgive him. What I did within the marriage made no difference to her having about a two year long affair with him. He wasn't the first.
> 
> In any case, it was more important to be civil. Forgiveness wasn't needed. Setting aside acting on feelings of revenge is not forgiving the person. It's a separate choice from forgiving them. How often do you get angry and think you'd like to make the boss pay for something they said or did. Well, most of us don't act on that. If we can't let go of the anger, we have to get away from them and find another job. It really has nothing to do with forgiving them.
> 
> ...


I think this is a personal thing. For me, I cannot be civil until I can let go, and for me, that means forgive. I wear my emotions on my sleeve, so to speak. If I don't care for you, you know because I ignore you. I don't waste my breath or time on you. But if you are going to be living with my child with any type of frequency, I would need to know that you are a decent person. 

Many will argue that any decent woman would not sleep with a MM/W. I think life and people are more complicated and messed up than that... My stepmom was my dad's AP, and she is a good person in my book.


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

Self castration live on you-tube at the minimum. My heart is dark now there can be no forgiveness. I hope he dies.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I can forgive! But it would come with a formidable price! 

He would have to walk way down into the valley and into my presence and personally ask me for that forgiveness. But before I could render that forgiveness, I would want all of my questions fully and totally answered! And in the absence of that, there would be absolutely no forgiveness rendered to him!

Which would have, no doubt, been the likely result anyway!*


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *I can forgive! But it would come with a formidable price!
> 
> He would have to walk way down into the valley and into my presence and personally ask me for that forgiveness. But before I could render that forgiveness, I would want all of my questions fully and totally answered! And in the absence of that, there would be absolutely no forgiveness rendered to him!
> 
> Which would have, no doubt, been the likely result anyway!*


I can understand this type of thinking... I often have an innate need to understand different perspectives and motivations for the things people do. I think if I could ask why, letting go would be much easier.

The influence of an outside party on your child is one of (if not the most) the crappiest parts of splitting up that I can think of. I never wanted anyone else to mother my child... I have some views on my ex's GF, but they are more that she is on disability and not a driven motivated person. An enabler. I am opposite. As long as she is good to my son, I think my actions will show him a better way to live. That good things come to those that work for them.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Forgiveness is for you.


:iagree:

besides, wtf does she care about whether i forgive her or not?

i just know that i can't be a healthy, happy and loving person if i harbor feelings of hate or ill will towards her. life is too short for that.


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

The thought of forgiving the cowardly POS who implemented an ambush on my family, and who jeopardized everything to which I've dedicated my life, doesn't even register in my universe.

To the contrary, I look forward to death and hell, where I'll relish my role as his chief tormenter for all eternity.

Unless the opportunity arises sooner . . .


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

JustGrinding said:


> The thought of forgiving the cowardly POS who implemented an ambush on my family, and who jeopardized everything to which I've dedicated my life, doesn't even register in my universe.
> 
> To the contrary, *I look forward to death and hell,* where I'll relish my role as his chief tormenter for all eternity.
> 
> Unless the opportunity arises sooner . . .


*Trust me, Just! You don't want any part of Hell! That's where your AP and XW likely wants you; to be there to help keep them company! Well to Hell with them!

As a Christian, you can forgive like the "Good Book" prescribes! But you damn sure never want to forget what they did to you!*


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> I think if I had successfully moved on and once I was happy, forgiveness would come naturally. I find holding grudges to be very draining, so I don't.


Oh I don't hold a grudge against the OM in my situation. I just know he doesn't give a crap about getting forgiveness from me. And I don't care to give it to him even if he wanted it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I feel greatly like you about the "out-of-town" OMen. But I feel 20 times worse toward my skanky XW ~ primarily because the evidence overwhelmingly showed that she was the one who led both of them on ~ and eventually into the bedroom!

And all while I was still married to her and sleeping in the same bed at home with her!*


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *I feel greatly like you about the "out-of-town" OMen. But I feel 20 times worse toward my skanky XW ~ primarily because the evidence overwhelmingly showed that she was the one who led both of them on ~ and eventually into the bedroom!
> 
> And all while I was still married to her and sleeping in the same bed at home with her!*




I was able to get ahold of their internet conversations. He was the main instigator on all accounts. My wife was afraid I would be the one to have an affair. And would warned me what she would do if I did. Me thinks she protested too much.
Part of me still hates her for what she did. Sadly I am more upset at myself for not seeing this part of her sooner. I believed her words rather than her example.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Forgiveness??? Not sure I have it in me for the OW. She knew he was married, knew he had children and yet would cry about not wanting to be his secret friend anymore???WTH did she want? To be invited to BBQ at our house? Make a bigger fool out of me? anyway as I was saying.

Forgiveness would be wasted on such a narcissistic freak like her. I doubt that she could even fathom the reality of what she did to me my h, our marriage, and family, and her self (how can the AP have any self respect?) unless karma finds her or the next married man she gets with has a wife who shows up at her door. Lucky for her I love my freedom and being with my children more than I want to throat punch her.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

yeah_right said:


> What would the AP have to do for you to forgive them?
> 
> Hari Kari????
> 
> Just kidding...sort of...


That would be a good place to start.

However there is no reason to forgive the OM/OW. No need to.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> A BS is hurt many times more by his/her WS than by the actions of the AP - except in cases where the AP is a family member or close friend - yet the BS is more inclined to forgive the person who hurt him/her most while maintain hatred for the AP. On the surface it seems rather odd. However, I think the reason a BS is more inclined to forgive the WS is because the WS will (typically) show regret and seek forgiveness whereas the AP won't.


Baloney.

The BS forgives the WS because the BS was not looking to end the marriage.

There is no reason for the BS to forgive the AP. So all of the hate gets placed on the AP.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> In a sense, you have forgiven the AP. I think this is healthy, because as indicated in the parts in bold, the AP's no longer affect your life.


This does not indicate forgiveness.

It indicates only that the BS ignores seeking revenge because it will only result in doing jail time or sued in civil court for the laws protect the AP from being punished.

So the BS has to let go getting justice. Though they are willing to keep putting gas in the karma bus. The BS knows as the rest of us that the karma bus can not be counted on.

So the BS resigns himself to be happy with NC with the AP.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Pepper123 said:


> What if your WS married their AP, and that person was stuck in your life because you have kids together?
> 
> Just wondering... This happened to me (but I was one of the kids).


NC with the WS and the AP for life.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Nothing because I would hold my spouse 100% responsible.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> In our case quite simple.
> 
> POSOM actively pursued my wife. He smelled blood in the water around our marriage and took advantage of if for his own gain. Sold her on his bull**** lines about his money, his past..... It is a pattern with him as he was at the time married to wife number 3 and it's a solid bet that wives number 2 & 3 had something to do with the demise of the previous marriage. He started it with simple chats and joke exchanges and escalated it every time he felt it was safe. Moving forward with planning a trip to our town which was ca-bashed upon my discovery. My wife understood her accountability in all of this but quite frankly she was duped by a bull**** artist.
> 
> I am by nature and religion a very forgiving person but in this case I refuse to consider forgiveness. This man attacked my marriage for his own personal gain and didn't care who got hurt in the process. *Including my children!* And for that, I refuse to forgive.


I don't know the situation, but it really seems like you are giving far, far too much blame to the AP and much too little to your wife. I'm sure it is easier that way, but I don't think it is realistic.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't get how people forgive their spouses but stay mad at the AP. They both mutually conspired to stab you in the back. I mean what's the difference in their actions? Further, I hold the WS more accountable because they are the one who took the vows. Scum like the AP will always be out there and if wasn't that person it would of been some one else. The WS was 50% responsible for protecting the marriage. I will also never buy into this bull that the WS was somehow tricked or coerced into cheating on the BS they loved by the AP. It's complete rubbish... They knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they threw your marriage under the bus.


100% agree.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Stand stock still while I terminate with extreme prejudice.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

love=pain said:


> You are vested with the Ws, long term relationship, marriage, kids you just don't have those connections with the AP.
> 
> The WS is certainly responsible for their part in the affair maybe more than the AP because they are betraying a vow they made to you.
> But you never did anything to the AP to cause them to treat you so poorly.
> ...


By this logic the WS should be held much more culpable because the WS does know you and they made the VOW to you. The AP didn't know you so there isn't an emotional connection. The emotional connection will cause more pain to the BS.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't see the point of forgiving for the following reasons:

1. The person that you forgive may not even care that you do.
2. What is supposed to happen after you forgive someone. Does that mean that you and your partner can continue to hang out with that person? Does that mean that I always have to be nice to that person because I have forgiven him /her?
3. Does that mean I have to include them in my social life?
4. What if the forgiven person never invites me to anything? Would that be my fault?


I think it is better to move on with one's life and not worry about forgiving, whether to forgive and what it should / might look like going forward.

No Contact when possible is the best way forward. And minimal contact after that.

Although there is nothing wrong with revenge, IMO, as long as it doesn't land you in jail.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> I don't know the situation, but it really seems like you are giving far, far too much blame to the AP and much too little to your wife. I'm sure it is easier that way, but I don't think it is realistic.


A fair statement as has been pointed out earlier in this thread. But a lot of it is that the pain inflicted by my wife is all but forgotten as her EA happened over 7 years ago. She in return has moved passed her hurt of my previous poor behaviors as we completed a very successful reconciliation. The process is covered in my thread that is stickied in the Reconciliation Forum if you wish to "know the situation".

Anyone who knows the story also knows I made all the text book mistakes of the BS. With time we both figured it out.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> A fair statement as has been pointed out earlier in this thread. But a lot of it is that the pain inflicted by my wife is all but forgotten as her EA happened over 7 years ago. She in return has moved passed her hurt of my previous poor behaviors as we completed a very successful reconciliation. The process is covered in my thread that is stickied in the Reconciliation Forum if you wish to "know the situation".
> 
> Anyone who knows the story also knows I made all the text book mistakes of the BS. With time we both figured it out.


Thank you for the explanation, it makes sense. I will check out the reconciliation thread as we'll.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> I don't know the situation, but it really seems like you are giving far, far too much blame to the AP and much too little to your wife. I'm sure it is easier that way, but I don't think it is realistic.


Topsy,

You are trying to put rational thinking on infidelity. After being serially cheated on for years on end... All I can say is it never will make rational sense. 

BTW, ever get to have a conversation with the AP, it might just change your whom is to blame thinking.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Re: What would the AP have to do for you to forgive them?*



theroad said:


> NC with the WS and the AP for life.


I guess I should feel lucky that my mom is a bigger person than that, as the family get togethers wouldn't be the same without her. Luckily she doesn't feel a need to punish her kids and grandkids for my dad's choices. It'd be her loss if she did.

Every few years all 20 or so of us stay in one big house together. .. including my dad and his wife (former Ap), my mom, and her new husband. 

Maybe it helps that they are both happier now. Plus, it was 15+ yrs ago


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