# What do you do when your spouse crosses a boundary?



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Me and my new husband had a discussion not long ago about boundaries. In particular about physical contact witb the opposite sex.

I was specific in that ANY contact with a non-family member is unacceptable to me. I accept that others may in certain circumstances initiate contact and in those situations his reaction is what is important to me. He thought I was being way too particular.

Anyhow. We went out last night with a group of friends. There was an old female friend of his with her boyfriend. They have a history; although they have in essence a friendship, they did get drunk once and kiss. I have no problem with them talking and she is a nice girl, however she is quite attention seeking and a huge flirt. I made it clear in our discussion that I am not on board with any contact between them.

When she and her bf were leaving, she spent some time talking with my husband and his friend. She hugged my husband, he hugged her back. He was completely oblivious; he obviously had no thoughts of how I might feel about it.

We had a massive argument about it last night (alcohol fuelled.) This morning I am sat realising that he crossed my boundary and I don't know what to do about it. FWIW he thinks I am being stupid. That his EA happened a year ago and we should be looking forward. He wants to do what he wants to do (ie not have to worry about my thoughts and reactions to such situations.)

I don't feel it is such a violation of a deal-breaking boundary. However it is simpky outside of my comfort zone given his EA. I don't know what to do with this...
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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

come back tonight, and discuss this without the alcohol. Communication is easier and more productive that way.

This one is tough, although he agreed about the boundaries issues, it seemed like he was "caught up in the molement" and made a reciprical gesture with hugging his "old female" friend back as she was leaving. Harmless to him, but not to you.

Because of his recent EA, and you still recovering from that he should understand and respect your triggers. Talk to him again tonight and explain how you are uncomfortible with the situation.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Yes, agree about discussing without the alcohol. I don't drink much anyway but I could feel myself getting very emotional so went to bed. I'd rather look at it today with a "fresh" head.

When he first told me about what happened, it was a situation where she wanted to hug him and he did so back. Then she went in for a kiss. We'd been having an ongoing issue with me wanting him to be more affectionate where he used to turn me down a lot for hugs and kisses so it's a massive trigger for me.
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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Tell him how you feel, like you've posted here, and why you feel that way.

Tell him again what your boundaries are. Tell him if he has a momentary lapse due to a spontaneous situation, you expect him to be understanding of your feelings, not argue with you about how wrong you are to have them.

Tell him he's lucky you took him back after his EA and that if he can't do what he promised to help you to continue to get over it, then you won't be able to get over it, and where will that lead?


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I hear you. The thing is it was literally a couple of weeks ago we discussed it. He knows how I feel. I think in his head anything that is related to his EA and talking about it is to him looking backwards. He says he is just reminded of what a pr!ck he was and he thought we'd moved on.

We talked about this situation happening: in fact HE brought it up. I told him it was not acceptable to me. I find it incredibly sad he just cannot even understand WHY I don't like it. The fact is he knrw I would be upset but did it anyway. Sad.
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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

i completely agree with you tobio on the contact with the opposite sex in a relationship, especially with exes.
i would be worried about his reaction that you were being too particular.

did either of you know she would be there?

did she ambush him with the hug?
if so i would act more on his reaction to the ambush.
did he REALLY hug her back? did he just kind of pat her a couple times with loose arms?

what was his reaction to her trying to kiss him?
kiss her back?
pull away?
turn his head?

i do understand about the triggers with this.
i think you need to act more on his reaction to her actions and try and go on that too.

dont be feel bad about this bothering you even if he did all he could to make it as innocent as possible. you do have the right to that, especially due to the history between the two of you. he should be able to understand your point of view on this situation.

good luck on resolving this this issue.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> i completely agree with you tobio on the contact with the opposite sex in a relationship, especially with exes.
> i would be worried about his reaction that you were being too particular.
> 
> did either of you know she would be there?
> ...


Thanks. I should just clarify the kiss I described was between him and the girl he had an EA with. Not the friend we saw yesterday.

The friend hugged him. He did hug her back. He even says she is very affectionate and that is how she would greet him and say goodbye so he knows to expect that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything between them. I think it is inappropriate particularly given their history but would be anyway.

I am so surprised at him. In many other ways he has been really good.
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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

tobio said:


> Thanks. I should just clarify the kiss I described was between him and the girl he had an EA with. Not the friend we saw yesterday.
> 
> The friend hugged him. He did hug her back. He even says she is very affectionate and that is how she would greet him and say goodbye so he knows to expect that.
> 
> ...


now the hard part will be getting him on board with the issue of opposite friends.

knowing how 'affectionate' she is, i agree he should have made some efforts in distancing himself from her.

he does need to have more consideration for you and your feelings on this subject.

he needs to understand how this can affect you and do his part to make you as comfortable as possible in the relationship...
and with you gracing him with your presence


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tobio,
Social contact in a public setting when your wife is present - is normal. Your boundary is so tightly drawn as to almost ensure friction with him. This is going to dilute his perception of what a boundary means to you, him and your marriage. 

There is a big difference - giant difference between: 
1. I "don't like it when you do X" and 
2. I "will not tolerate "X". 

Don't say the latter unless you mean it. And frankly if you really are willing to leave him over "that", I imagine he would question either your sanity or your commitment to him. 





tobio said:


> Me and my new husband had a discussion not long ago about boundaries. In particular about physical contact witb the opposite sex.
> 
> I was specific in that ANY contact with a non-family member is unacceptable to me. I accept that others may in certain circumstances initiate contact and in those situations his reaction is what is important to me. He thought I was being way too particular.
> 
> ...


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Tobio,
> Social contact in a public setting when your wife is present - is normal. Your boundary is so tightly drawn as to almost ensure friction with him. This is going to dilute his perception of what a boundary means to you, him and your marriage.
> 
> There is a big difference - giant difference between:
> ...


I wouldn't leave him over this, no. Being honest I do realise that it is more of an issue with this particular friend because of their history. It's a convoluted story involving her and a number of males in our friendship group. She has a history with both my husband and his friend who she was (is) involved in an EA with but is also good friends with his friend's wife. Husband's female friend is pleasant enough to me but I know she doesn't like me because prior to me and him getting together, he was one of her main sources of self-validating male attention. She can't have that from him now and she doesn't like it. 

I also watched her sat next to her boyfriend flirting with my husband's best friend. I felt uncomfortable with that. And truly I am unsure of if there is still any attraction there between her and my husband... It's not a question I have wanted to ask.

I think given this history I feel comfortable having this boundary around his behaviour with her. He has in the past done some crazily questionable things in public... Things that have made me and our friends present cringe. I do not want him to be her puppet for lavishing physical attention on in order for her to boost her esteem. It's not okay to me.

I will say that I could be more flexible with, say, his friend's wives with some polite hug or cheek.kiss as a greeting or goodbye.
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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

This woman doesn't sound like a nice girl to me. Flirting with the guys in the group right in front of her BF? Hugging your husband like that? Involved in an EA with another guy in the group AND friends with his wife? What a feckin' wh0re! I wouldn't have to think twice before exposing her a$$ to the entire group! You don't need to leave your husband over this; but the wh0re has to go.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Did she attend this outing with a boyfriend or did she come alone?





tobio said:


> I wouldn't leave him over this, no. Being honest I do realise that it is more of an issue with this particular friend because of their history. It's a convoluted story involving her and a number of males in our friendship group. She has a history with both my husband and his friend who she was (is) involved in an EA with but is also good friends with his friend's wife. Husband's female friend is pleasant enough to me but I know she doesn't like me because prior to me and him getting together, he was one of her main sources of self-validating male attention. She can't have that from him now and she doesn't like it.
> 
> I also watched her sat next to her boyfriend flirting with my husband's best friend. I felt uncomfortable with that. And truly I am unsure of if there is still any attraction there between her and my husband... It's not a question I have wanted to ask.
> 
> ...


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

CandieGirl said:


> This woman doesn't sound like a nice girl to me. Flirting with the guys in the group right in front of her BF? Hugging your husband like that? Involved in an EA with another guy in the group AND friends with his wife? What a feckin' wh0re! I wouldn't have to think twice before exposing her a$$ to the entire group! You don't need to leave your husband over this; but the wh0re has to go.


CandieGirl... It's like an open secret. All parties involved know there are feelings between the female friend and my husband's friend, though not sure how much her boyfriend knows.

She has issues. She seeks attention from men to validate her self-worth. She has a lot of male friends for this attention. She is good-looking as well which helps her. She exudes a vulnerable air which leads a lot of guys to feel protective towards her. She is incredibly tactile and there can be a 'lingering' of the hugs with the guys and she gets closer to the guys by way of personal space than I would like with my husband at times, and in a way with the guys that would be perceived as flirting, ie a hand on the thigh when mentioning someone in a story who's sat next to her, or stroking someone's hair if she notices a new haircut.
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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

MEM, she was with her boyfriend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

tobio said:


> CandieGirl... It's like an open secret. All parties involved know there are feelings between the female friend and my husband's friend, though not sure how much her boyfriend knows.
> 
> She has issues. She seeks attention from men to validate her self-worth. She has a lot of male friends for this attention. She is good-looking as well which helps her. She exudes a vulnerable air which leads a lot of guys to feel protective towards her. She is incredibly tactile and there can be a 'lingering' of the hugs with the guys and she gets closer to the guys by way of personal space than I would like with my husband at times, and in a way with the guys that would be perceived as flirting, ie a hand on the thigh when mentioning someone in a story who's sat next to her, or stroking someone's hair if she notices a new haircut.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know, call me crazy, but I think you'd be doing everyone involved a big favor by blowing this out of the water. An open secret? So people know, they're just afraid of rocking the boat. No one wants to be the one to tell this broad to swing her hole at someone else's hook. I hate women like that.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

tobio said:


> MEM, she was with her boyfriend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


God know my H has issues but one thing I can't fault him on is his ability to see though these kids of girls and put them in their place without being rude but with them looking like and feeling like a fool to all. I wish your man could feel it and act on it. In watching some interactions of people close to me lately, I've come to the conclusion either you're born with it or not, and insisting on appropriate behavior just doesn't last. I've seen some real scum lately who would lose their family, house, car and be financially ruined and still doesn't stop him! Just sad!
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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey tobio---OK---you have whipped the other girl, and we know you don't like her---but that ain't your problem is it!!!!!

Your H., is your problem----he had an EA with her, you let it slide, I have no idea what consequences, you applied, upon finding out about the EA---but obviously they were not harsh enuff

You now have a boundary----he crossed the boundary---SO WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ABOUT IT????---No consequences, no action on your part---he will violate this boundary again, and again----TALK DOES NOT WORK---THERE MUST BE ACTIONABLE CONSEQUENCES

Your beef is with your H., not this chick who flirts with all the guys----you did not take vows with her, you do not share a life with her---F'ing forget her----what are doing in re: your H., continued contact and cheating

WHY HAVE YOU NOT IMPOSED NC, ON HIM----he has an A., with a woman---and he is allowed to be near her by you---that I do not understand----then he hugs and kisses her----and you are asking us what to do----YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO----get in his face and lay out your terms----let him know POINT BLANK-----if he even looks cross-eyed at this woman again---he can begin to prepare to defend a D. action-------YOU CANNOT BE NICE ABOUT THIS----If you want it stopped---then F'ING STOP IT---AND DO NOT BE NICE ABOUT IT.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Tobio, if this is an agreed to boundary between you and your H, then the issue is why he crossed it knowingly, or if perhaps he felt unable to act within it at the time (of course alcohol may be a factor too).

For me, I rarely move in for a hug on female friends (or male friends) however the nice guy in me would not leave someone hanging, plus if someone wants to hug me it makes me feel accepted (and I don't mean in any kind of sexual way).

Maybe your H really isn't fine with such a boundary but agreed to it to appease you (not like that is an acceptable behavior either). Or maybe he just decided that it would have made more of a scene and caused more discomfort to himself, you or present company to dis someone in a friendly social setting.

But one thing I can tell from your posts is that you are unable to see this unemotionally, your fear is really coloring your ability to judge his position objectively. Before anyone can advise you what to do when he crosses your boundary you really need to discuss this with him and come to an understanding on what his thought process was, and start working together on how to make it more effective because even though it sounds like he wants to respect you he doesn't have the skill or knowledge to navigate this one.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Here's the main issue I see:

A boundary is a limit, or a fence if you will, that YOU set around YOURSELF...not someone else. When you get in the business of telling someone else what they can and can not due, then you have crossed the line into being controlling. 

So the way that a boundary works is like this: around you is a little fenced in area (we'll call it "your space") and you decide what you will and will not allow in your space. You also decide who you will and will not allow in your space. As it relates to your husband, he has made certain promises to you about "forsaking all others" and whatnot, but the BOUNDARY you would set up about this issue would be something like this:

"I can not control what you do or do not choose to do. But I do know that I can control myself and what I will allow in my life, and I will not have a person who breaks their promises on a regular basis. I also won't be able to open up and feel vulnerable and intimately share myself (my hopes, dreams, fears, thoughts and feelings) with someone who does not consider how their actions might hurt me. "

So he is completely free to choose to act however he's going to act--you can't put a boundary around HIM. But you can say what kind of people you will let into your life and into your heart, and you can determine for yourself whether you can or can not open up to and be vulnerable with and feel safe with someone who knows that XYZ hurts you and they choose to do it anyway. That effectively is saying, "I choose to do this knowing it will harm you." 

Can you see the difference? And the consequence is not always "I am going to leave you" because if you do that, it's just a threat to get your way. Nope, be more real. YOU made a promise to him too, and if you are constantly threatening the relationship you're the one who's causing the instability! So honor the promises you made to him--make it clear you will make the marriage stable on your side--but that in order for you to be open and transparent with you, you need to feel safe first, and you will just NOT feel safe if he keeps reacting to the attention-seeking of other females. Maybe the first consequence is one night of having to not be close to him or something. But if the goal of the marriage is two individuals who are mature and equal, who CHOOSE to be together and intimate on every level....then he will WANT you to feel safe to do so and he can make choices to reach that goal! 

So can you see the difference? A boundary is not you setting up rules for him. A boundary is YOU setting a fence around yourself and deciding what you will and will not let in to have access to the treasure that you are.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I explained my boundary to him clearly and specifically. I understand it is for me. However I can clearly see that I am so hurt that he blatantly disregarded that it would hurt me. He does not have the argument that he didn't know or understand.

His reasoning is that at the time he simply didn't think about it. He said had I said when we got to the pub and saw her there, that I didn't want him to hug her then he wouldn't have. But otherwise it simply wasn't there.

I suppose it's not just that he did that, but that he did that knowing full well how I would feel. That is what hurts me. It was a recurring theme during counselling after his EA that he "didn't think" how something would look. 

I don't WANT to be his thought police. I am fully on board with being clear about my feelings on stuff and from ghere leaving it to him as to what he does. But it is like he is placing the onus back on my shoulders. Saying stuff like he "can't remember" me explaining a boundary or he needs me to remind him. I don't WANT to control him. I don't want that responsibility! But wtf is the point of explaining I have boundaries in the first place if this is how much consideration he has for them, ie none?

And I am left still with not knowing what consequence fits this. I can't think of something appropriate?
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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

The consequence has already happened: your trust and respect have diminished. You need no further action except to keep maintaining your boundary.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

No? I'm still thinking about it Lon. I honestly feel that whilst what you say is spot-on, with my husband... Well it's not something tangible for him. 

When we were talking last night he reminded me of an incident a while ago involving this female friend. We were out one night in town again as part of a large group. She used to smoke, and my husband does. She asked him if he had a light, he was carrying beers back from the bar. He said yeah, but my light's in my pocket.

Now I can't remember whether he said she could get it or she asked or even if she juat did it off her own back, but I then watched as she reached into one of his jeans front pocket and got his lighter out.

I remember being pretty open-mouthed. We had a massive argument about it. I remember him saying then that it really didn't bother him for her to do that, that's "just what she's like."

Remembering this has made me really angry. I am sat here thinking of the many instances now he has either demnstrated poor boundaries on his own part or disrespected mine. What irks me is even with clear communication he is still disrespecting my boundaries. Or as he says he just doesn't think about them.

*throws hands up in air in frustration*
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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

maybe when he does stuff like this, go over and give a little kick to his nutz. i bet he starts to 'remember' then.

he really seems to have no consideration for you at all, especially when you are with him. god knows what might happen if he is around her and youre NOT there.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Wow, I'm sorry but your boundaries are beyond western societal norms. A hug between friends is normal behavior. Your reaction to it is not. If she is such a big flirt and causes you discomfort, then you guys should not socialize with her. But your reaction to a hug in the presence of her boy friend and you is WAY over the top. You might want to look into why you feel this is an issue for you.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

tobio said:


> CandieGirl... It's like an open secret. All parties involved know there are feelings between the female friend and my husband's friend, though not sure how much her boyfriend knows.
> 
> She has issues. She seeks attention from men to validate her self-worth. She has a lot of male friends for this attention. She is good-looking as well which helps her. She exudes a vulnerable air which leads a lot of guys to feel protective towards her. She is incredibly tactile and there can be a 'lingering' of the hugs with the guys and she gets closer to the guys by way of personal space than I would like with my husband at times, and in a way with the guys that would be perceived as flirting, ie a hand on the thigh when mentioning someone in a story who's sat next to her, or stroking someone's hair if she notices a new haircut.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh HELL NO!


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Oh HELL NO!


I honestly cant imagine a woman being THIS ridiculous and being accepted by the other women in the group. I wouldnt tolerate another woman putting her hand on my H's thigh for even one second, NO WAY(totally disrespectful from someone who is supposed to be in a group of 'friends'). And why on earth would your H have trouble seeing why this would bother you? It would bother me even BEFORE my H had his EA let alone AFTER!. Your H doesnt understand b/c he doesnt want to...?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

tobio said:


> No? I'm still thinking about it Lon. I honestly feel that whilst what you say is spot-on, with my husband... Well it's not something tangible for him.
> 
> When we were talking last night he reminded me of an incident a while ago involving this female friend. We were out one night in town again as part of a large group. She used to smoke, and my husband does. She asked him if he had a light, he was carrying beers back from the bar. He said yeah, but my light's in my pocket.
> 
> ...


OMG!!! She reached in his pants???? Right there in front of you??? I would have told HER to back off. Wow, Tobio you are way too nice. I am pretty mello most times but on NO day is some chick reaching into my H's pants for ANYTHING, EVER! I am so sorry youre going thru this. My H has boundary issues as well so I understand your frustration. My H is learning to put up the walls so to speak(IC). Maybe some IC for your H to learn why he needs so much attention from these other women?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> OMG!!! She reached in his pants???? Right there in front of you??? I would have told HER to back off. Wow, Tobio you are way too nice. I am pretty mello most times but on NO day is some chick reaching into my H's pants for ANYTHING, EVER! I am so sorry youre going thru this. My H has boundary issues as well so I understand your frustration. My H is learning to put up the walls so to speak(IC). Maybe some IC for your H to learn why he needs so much attention from these other women?


Told her to back off? Don't you mean rammed your fist down her throat? She'd be picking her teeth out of her arsehole for a week...sorry. Bad mood today.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Told her to back off? Don't you mean rammed your fist down her throat? She'd be picking her teeth out of her arsehole for a week...sorry. Bad mood today.


Whatever it took. Seriously. This would NOT have happened in my presence. NO touching. I dont share my toys!!!!


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I can only imagine seeing someone do this, then my striding over, all 5'11" of me, and grabbing her by the ear, twisting it, and steering her OUT.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> I can only imagine seeing someone do this, then my striding over, all 5'11" of me, and grabbing her by the ear, twisting it, and steering her OUT.


well I'm 5'2 and I would do whatever it took to stop that little party.
Seriously, what a brazen b*tch. You DONT touch another womans H like THAT, EVER! And HE allowed it! Holy Moly.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

did he do and allow this stuff when you were dating?

if yes, that should have been a red flag then.
if no, then it shows he CAN control the situation and he is now ALLOWING it.

this whole thing is more than ridiculous and disrespectful.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

tobio said:


> No? I'm still thinking about it Lon. I honestly feel that whilst what you say is spot-on, with my husband... Well it's not something tangible for him.
> 
> When we were talking last night he reminded me of an incident a while ago involving this female friend. We were out one night in town again as part of a large group. She used to smoke, and my husband does. She asked him if he had a light, he was carrying beers back from the bar. He said yeah, but my light's in my pocket.
> 
> ...


This is the same woman he hugged back the other day? You are right to feel uncomfortable and to treat her as a threat to the marriage - there are lots of maybes, but either way her presence is dissolving your trust and bond with your H.

You need to ask your H to cut her out of your lives. Stop going to social gatherings if she is going to be there, when you host these gatherings make sure she is not invited, and unwelcome. Make it obvious to your friends your dislike for her behavior around your H, make this about her but in private show your H that this is what you will do to anyone he has innappropriate interactions with. Don't worry about being a villain, most others in your circle of friends will actually respect you protecting your marriage.

If your H is reluctant about any of this tell him how much it hurts when he chooses this insignificant woman over the W he chose to make his W, express your emotion to him constantly because as soon as you stop he goes about being insensitive.

be persistent and I suspect it will get easier over time to guard your marital boundaries. Good luck, I know its no easy task but I also know first hand from the way my ex W burned through friends that you can cut people out and life still goes on.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

How many times had I heard how ridiculous "I" was being because I wasnt comfortable with my wife being close friends with several of her ex's. How some of her girlfriends husbands would stand behind my wife and wrap their arms around her unlike a "Friendly" hug...

I call bullsh!t on all that. Fkers want to play, do it without me.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

If you don't want him having any contact with her, why did you go out with her and her boyfriend? I'm assuming you had a choice in the matter.


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