# EA to the next level



## driven2112 (Sep 28, 2011)

Here is my story: Married for 10 years, together for 16, with a 13 year old daughter living with us. My wife and I have had our ups and downs throughout. Our fights were always minimally dealt with ( a large part due to my giving in to prevent further argument). Our fights also consisted of us not speaking for a period of a few days, and then, gradually, we came back to speaking terms, and were 'happy' again. Our last fight, however, was not like that, and our non-communication lasted a couple of weeks, until D-day, when she asked me what our 'plan' was for separation. This naturally floored me, and I began to explain that we both needed to work on this marriage for it to succeed, and that if it has come to this, then MC had to become a part of it. She said that this was of no use, and that I could not change my ways regardless of any type of therapy. In our conversation that evening, I happened to ask whether there was someone else involved (expecting a resounding "no"). She came out with, "I'm talking to someone". I broke down in tears and cried like a baby just then, and an unbelievable numbness hit me. She was having an EA.
Looking back on it now, I should have caught the warning signs (long shopping trips, visits to friends' homes, lateness from work, etc.).
I then took residence in our spare room (I could no longer sleep in the matrimonial bed), while she spent various nights at friends' homes, coming home early in the morning to get our daughter ready for school.
Over the next few days, the cycle of emotions took its toll on me. I went from anger to sadness to regret, and basically ran the gamut of feelings. Throughout our various conversations since then, I still stated that I was committed to this marriage, and was willing to work things out with help from a MC. I always got the same response- that I cannot change, and that I was weak to give in to her when arguments arose; and that she is not happy and has not been for some time.
Now, her friends have gone away on holiday for a week, and have invited her to stay at the vacant house, and that is what she has planned. I have good reason to believe that the EA will be taken to the next level. I am having a real hard time with this, and don't quite know how to deal with this appropriately. I probably have left out many details, as my state of mind is not what it should be. I just cannot fathom the thought of someone else confiding with, never mind touching her.
In weighing all of these observations, I am of the opinion that this EA had been going on for a while , and that our last fight was an excuse for her to keep it going while feeling less guilty about it. She says the affair has nothing to do with it, and that the OM just happened to be there when she needed someone to talk to. Why not her family (father and sisters who were close to her)? 
Any advice or clarification requests are very welcome.


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## FB Widow (Sep 29, 2011)

If she is spending nights out chances are it has progressed already, but it is in its early stage by the sound of it. Talk to her family and friends and guilt her into telling you everything.

Be forceful, tell her she's living in a dream and it is all going to come crashing down once she's awake. 

At least you deserve that after 16 years and a child together.

If you do get through there's probably a good chance she'll wake up.

That is just my opinion, sorry if it makes things more painful for you...


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Find out if OM is married or in relationship. If so, out it to his wife or SO. Also, out it to her parents or someone she would listen to. If that does not work, then just let her go. You can't force someone to love you. In her case, she already has checked out of M. You just have to contact lawyer to proceed D.

Who knows she may come back to you once she realizes the M is indeed ending. Since it seems she always had her ways in dealing with you, she may still think she is in control. Once she knows she lost her control by your being proactive with D, that may wake her up facing the real consequences of breaking up the M and hurting her kid.

Remember M is maintained by two people. No matter how much you want to keep it intact, if she doesn't want it, then there's not much you can do. Just accept the reality and go with the flow. Whether she comes back or not is upto her, and you cannot force it.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

driven2112 said:


> Here is my story: Married for 10 years, together for 16, with a 13 year old daughter living with us. My wife and I have had our ups and downs throughout. Our fights were always minimally dealt with ( a large part due to my giving in to prevent further argument). Our fights also consisted of us not speaking for a period of a few days, and then, gradually, we came back to speaking terms, and were 'happy' again. Our last fight, however, was not like that, and our non-communication lasted a couple of weeks, until D-day, when she asked me what our 'plan' was for separation. This naturally floored me, and I began to explain that we both needed to work on this marriage for it to succeed, and that if it has come to this, then MC had to become a part of it. She said that this was of no use, and that I could not change my ways regardless of any type of therapy. In our conversation that evening, I happened to ask whether there was someone else involved (expecting a resounding "no"). She came out with, "I'm talking to someone". I broke down in tears and cried like a baby just then, and an unbelievable numbness hit me. She was having an EA.
> Looking back on it now, I should have caught the warning signs (long shopping trips, visits to friends' homes, lateness from work, etc.).
> I then took residence in our spare room (I could no longer sleep in the matrimonial bed), while she spent various nights at friends' homes, coming home early in the morning to get our daughter ready for school.
> Over the next few days, the cycle of emotions took its toll on me. I went from anger to sadness to regret, and basically ran the gamut of feelings. Throughout our various conversations since then, I still stated that I was committed to this marriage, and was willing to work things out with help from a MC. I always got the same response- that I cannot change, and that I was weak to give in to her when arguments arose; and that she is not happy and has not been for some time.
> ...


Wow, really sorry man, worst feeling in the world.

Do you know who OM is? Is he married? If so, blow up the affair asap by talking with his wife, calmy, directly and as politely as possible. This may help your W to snap out of the fog of her affair, as the mystery and fantasy will be taken out of the picture, and OM will be focusing on saving his own a**, just as your wife will be doing (hopefully).

If she hasn't consummated with OM already, she will soon (as you suspect...your gut is probably right).

If OM is not married (or committed), then freeze your wife out immediately. Tell her you won't be in an open marriage. Do the 180 and start planning your life without her, because she is checked out.

Don't be mean or get angry, don't pursue her, beg or plead, just focus on improving yourself and deal with her as if she is a business client, polite, indifferent and with a purpose. If she says she wants a divorce, agree with her. Seriously.

Get proof, have someone drive by the vacant house she'll be staying at, see if there are other cars or anything going on that's obviously out of the ordinary (or do it yourself, carefully). Check your cell bills for his number, and how far back it goes.

Decide where your boundaries are NOW, and put them in place and make her aware what lines have been crossed, and which may be soon, and the consequences of those actions...and then follow through. She will not respect you if you take this and impose no consequences for her actions.

And what about her takling to YOU about her problems? She is not connected to you right now, and only by disconnecting yourself will she be able to see a picture of what she's lost.

Good luck...


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## driven2112 (Sep 28, 2011)

Few clarifications: don't know who OM is or if he is married (will do a phone bill check), I have told her family as I am close with them, she says it's over as far as she is concerned, regarding the marriage, she has no idea of future plans as to the logistics of the separation/divorce. Has no clue where she will live, where all her things will go,etc. As a matter of fact, I don't know where I'll go either, probably to one of her sisters and my best friend bro-in-law, with my daughter and two dogs. Nobody can really move out now, as our finances do not make it convenient.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You need to use reverse psychology, if you really wanna keep her---so what you tell her is

It's fine, just go ahead and go, you the daughter, and the dogs will do just fine w/out her---and also tell her do not come running back to you when the A. fails---of which 97% do fail

Also from your description of her time away from you this thing went physical a long time ago


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Who is the main bread winner? Is the 13 yr old your biological daughter? Does she know her mom is moving out? Is she leaving the daughter with you? How are your finances? Is this the 1st M for both of you? Other than the fights and OM, is there some fundamental issue that might have driven your W to leave her M?

I don't mean to be intrusive, but I just want to know what your situation is, also what her motivation and thought process are.


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## driven2112 (Sep 28, 2011)

I am the main breadwinner, Our 13 year old is our biological daughter and she has not been told that mom is moving out, we just told her that we plan on selling the house, and figuring out the logistics involved in going our separate ways, and that whatever happens, she will be cared for by both of us. Our finances are not good-big mtg, credit card debt, paycheck to paycheck, etc. It is the first marriage for her and the 2nd for me. The fights stem from a lack of communication between us both, which is something that I told her that I am willing to work on. She claims that all she wants is to be happy like her parents were for 50+ years, but doesn't seem to want to work for it. I will admit that I am far from perfect, but it takes two people who are willing to make a marriage work.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

The reason I asked about finances is that I have been noticing alot of coupes are having martial disputes stemming from conflicts and disatisfaction over finance issues. Especially, women tend to feel justified trying to get out of M, solely because of the financial issues and nothing else. Of course, she would make up other excuses as well, but...

At any rate, she seems very proud and stubborn. Also, she seems selfish and immature. It must have been difficult for you to compensate for her shortcomings all these years. 

1) Kids - She seems to not mind leaving her daughter behind, which means the persuasion based on how much it would hurt the kid would not work for her. 
2) Finances - The current finances are bad, which means she thinks she got nothing to lose. Also, she thinks she can always ask for help from her parents, maybe? This makes her reckless. Is OM rich? Is that a part of her motivation?
3) Influences thru her parents and peers - Do the in-laws know about this? How is your relationship with them? Will they help talking to her? 
4) OM - You must find out as much as possible about OM. You can contact the OM's SO if there is any, or OM himself if necessary. If he is a job, informing the company's HR department may put some pressure, but it all depends on the company.
5) Investigative Tools - You must start using technologies to monitor your W's activities. Tapping house phones, monitoring cell records, putting VAR in various places you feel workable, in-person surveilance, etc... In your case, she already admitted the ongoing A, so your goal is not about revealing A but figuring out what exactly is going on in terms of their schedules, plans, the extent of their physical relationship and commitment, etc...
6) Lawer - Since she made it clear that she plans to move out, it's time for you to contact lawyer for consultation at least, if not to file for D yet. Even if you don't file D yet, you should at least know the legal options and the likely outcome of D.
7) Your interaction with your W - You have an option. You can apply what's called Plan A, which is to win her back by being nice to her and show her the best of "you", or apply what's called "180", which is showing indifference to her. With 180, you not only show that you can do without W but also train yourself ready for singlehood after D. It's hard to predict how your WW will respond to either approach. At any rate, you must have some kind of consistent action plan.


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## driven2112 (Sep 28, 2011)

I think finances have a lot to do with this, as she has become rather materialistic in the last while, which she wasn't before. Her Mother passed away a year ago, and I will give her the benefit of the doubt in her dealing with that tragedy. Her father is not wealthy and cannot support her. W and her father spoke after d-day (at my request), but she failed to mention OM. I told him my side of the story after and included OM. He thinks she is wrong, but she is very stubborn and will not listen even to him. As far as the surveillance and monitoring, I don't have the resources or the time to carry on with this, and I have tried the 180, but not consistently enough, although I will keep trying. I just want to figure out how to get the thoughts WW and OM together out of my mind. I am going crazy, but I guess I have to learn to let go.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Well, if you already made a peace with the fact that she is leaving you and your kid, then I really don't have much advice to give you, other than contacting the lawyer to expedite the D. That way, at least you can move on faster. Nothing hurts more than being stuck in limbo state. 

Also, while seeking D, she will find out that she is expected to pay child support. She will learn that there will be some consequences for walking out of M like that. Frankly, I am not sure this will be enough of wakeup call to pull her back to you. But, who knows?

Does she say she has absolutely no feeling left for you? What about her daughter? Why is she so insensitive to her daughter? They do not get along well? Has the daughter been acting out from teenage rebellion? Or, she never had a strong maternal instinct?

If you have already given up on your W, then you must proceed with D immediately, and try detaching asap. Do not hang on to the memory of the good old days. Those days are gone, and that woman you once loved is dead now. Detach, detach, detach ! Try visualizing only the negative things about your W; that way, you feel easier to demonize your W to make yourself feel better detaching, and this is exactly what your WW must have been doing as well!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Her moving out says she is still incontact with the OM , please do not allow yourself to be fooled by this action or let her imply that she is moving out for other reasons. Your daughter is old enough to be told the truth , chose your words carefully let her know you are not going anywhere.. Your wife is leaving to carry on the affair , hard experience tells us this is what many waywards do . Find the OM's wife and let her know what has happened.

If your wife does move out file for legal separation , go dark , gain full custody for your child and ensure your wife pays you child care. I am not suggesting a divorce however your wife I believe is following a script to continue the affair, have visitations home to cake eat and play happy families. She can't have both worlds. Let her know that while you want her in your life , you don't need her futhermore you don't want her at any cost.

Your marriage can be still saved , communicate with her calmy , paint a bleak picture of her option too move out. In the meantime look at yourself , change those parts she sees as unattractive. Stand up , be confident and show strength of character.

A flag for you, a mother rarely abandons her family unless she has something or someone in the wings , from what I have seen many times elsewhere your wife is preparing for life with the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

I am so sorry. This is an awful place to be and believe me I know. I was there.

At the moment you are only a barrier to her happiness. 

I suspect the shutters have come down on her eyes? 
I suspect she is incredibly selfish.
I suspect you can not believe this is your wife..

I am sorry to tell you , but this is the her you are going to see for some time. I also think she may already have at least fooled around. This level of delusion is hard to combat. 

Let her go as fast as possible. Read the Letting Go thread. She has told you she DOES NOT WANT YOU. I am so sorry your here. DO NOT beg and plead. Be confident. Start building a life for you and your 13 year old. 

Be careful with telling your kid. 13 is a tough age. She should explain herself and she should tell that she has met a new friend.

_Dear Wife
.
I wish you well and hope that you find peace and the love you are looking for.

I have confidence that you will find your way, but sad that I can not be part of your life any more etc etc. 

love you_.

Do not tell her about this site. It is for you. Your safe place.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

First cut off her access to money. Stop joint credit cards and end joint bank accounts. 

Next put VARs in her car and hire a PI. I know it is expensive, so is divorce. Find the OM. 

Realize that she is gas lighting and blame shifting everytime she tells you the marriage is bad. She is deep in her affair and is justifying her actions.

Also, realize the affair is exactly why she us leaving. The nights out most certainly enable and involve contacting and being with the OM.

Do not believe one word she says. Not one. Like a drug addict she will say and do anything to see the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## driven2112 (Sep 28, 2011)

So much to ponder...Thanks to everyone for your intelligent and thoughtful comments and advice. I plan on moving forward and "manning up", my daughter needs me more than ever.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

At the moment she is going to want and do the opposite of what you want and will be expecting you to act a certain way. You need to throw a huge monkey wrench in her thought process to confusing her and make her doubt herself.

DO NOT fight her over a divorce, tell yourself you want it more than her. Find out what you need to do to file for one and do it. Filing for a divorce is nothing but it will show her you are serious and not going to wait around on her. The nicer you are to her, the more she will resent you so don’t feel bad about acting like a jerk, she cheated so you are justified plus is shows you standing up for yourself. You have to slap her in the face with the reality of not having you in her life. 

Also find out who the OM is and if he’s in a relationship tell his SO.

This is where you find your anger and let it motivate you to get away from her. The only way she’ll come back is if she thinks you will leave her for good and will do alright without her. You can’t tell her that, she has to see it in your actions.

Don’t listen to anything she says, she’s in an irrational state so it would be pointless to take her for her word. Make a game plan and tell her how things are going down and if she doesn’t like it then tough.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm so sorry, this must be very devastating.
I'm surprised to hear that she has no plans for what she is going to do next? Yes, she has told people marriage is over, but her actions don't say that. (she has no idea where she is going, etc). You have the reins on this one.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Sorry to hear this too...

But keep up your strength as you seem to be for your daughters sake. Your wife seems to be long checked out if her family/friends have no influence at all on her. 

And I know it's painful to think about, but you're better off without her. She is no longer that beautiful bride you married that day. What's inside her is now cold and generic. You deserve better. And your daughter deserves to see you happy.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

This all a script that many here at TAM have heard before. It has everythinh to do with the OM. So do not believe for one minute if she was alone in all this she would continue to act this way.

So the best thing to do is make this afffair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible.

Do the foot work to find OM and expose it to his side of things.
Help her pack not only her cloths but everything.

Start right now on showing her the reality of things to come.

Its sound odd but pushing her away will bring her back. Once she sees the reality of it all she will second guess her choices. That is why it so important to act now.

Waiting and stalling will only empower her. Showing her confidence and calmness and quick action on your part will make her think twice.

Once she truely believes that you will not share her with another man and she faces the consequences of what will come if she continues, this will make her think about reality and get her that much closer out of the fantasy she is in.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Something that you won't want to see is that there is* not that high a chance that you can bust her out of the fog*. It may take months, it may never happen. You need to prepare you and your daughter for a life without her. Be strong for your daughter. She needs you. She really does. Don't think you have to never show tears or never show how devastated you are though. It is good for her to see that this is a really, really big deal. I will also help validate her feelings because she may bottle them up. My 13 year old daughter did.


You need to dump reality on her fast though for any chance at all.
In my case even her telling the kids did not snap her out of the fog. Ironically me going "ho hum do whatever you like" 7 months later and _meaning and feeling it_ has made her look at her situation. Too late for me and the kids though.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

As for your daughter, since she is already 13, there is no reason for you to protect her from knowing what is going on. In a case like this, open and honest communication with your daughter is what I would recommend. That way, she will come thru with healthier mindset than being lied to by minimizing or distorting the reality of what is going on.


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## driven2112 (Sep 28, 2011)

I am working on the 180, and have to be civil with her as we both have to live under the same roof for the time being. I have mentioned to her that she needs to start getting her sh*t together and start dealing with getting the house in order (ie. removing all the clutter and accumulated things lying around, so that the house can look decent for real estate viewings). As it turns out, for about the past week, all that was done was a clean up of the spare room (for me to sleep in), and she picked up a few cardboard packing boxes, which are still in her vehicle. Now, I don't expect her to do all the work, but the majority of items in our house are things she purchased or accumulated. As for "my" things, it's basically a clean up of articles in the garage and basement, which shouldn't take me very long to get in order. Bottom line is, I don't think she wants to face the reality of this, and it overwhelms her, hence, she avoids it. 
I am working on finding out who OM is. This detective work is really cathartic, and, dare I say, Fun. I have a few "leads", and am slowly following up on them. 
Thanks to all again for your support and suggestions.


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## driven2112 (Sep 28, 2011)

It's been a few days, and I've tried to keep cool, be nice, etc. It seems like everything I say gets turned around, and WW gets extremely rude and offensive. It's like she's trying to pick a fight. I am not begging her to come back to me, as I am quite sure that it's over, but it's just that it seems she's picking fights to maybe make it easier to go to OM. Financially, it is impossible for us to physically separate right now, but I know she wants to leave and stay with her 'friends'. When I mention the EA (PA), she gets offended, and today stated that "Maybe I'll get lucky tonight". Now she is throwing it in my face. We are slowly getting the ball rolling in terms of getting the house ready and figuring out finances, but it is getting increasingly difficult to be in the same room with her. I know I need to let go, but I still get those images in my head of WW and OM together, and it doesn't make me feel very good. Sorry if I am all over the map, but I am not in a good place right now.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Remember, as long as the marriage looks like crap she can justify her cheaating. So ignore it, ignore it all. Wish her luck and enforce the fact that what she is doing is her choice and that if thats the life she want then wish her well.
No matter how painful it is, by you being "supportive" ....no matter how fake it is, it will make you out to be a good man and it will reinforce the fact that the marriage is over and you are moving forward with out her.

I strongly suggest that you wish her the best, smile and show her how confident you are that she no longer has control over you. I'm telling you ...even though it totaly sucks, you showing how emotionally indifferent you are to her comments and the fact that you want her to move on and have a happy life...no matter how unhealthy it is, it will make your W realize that she has lost you completely...even if your still living together, it doesn't matter. In fact it better, that way every day she can see haow "happy" you are for her.

In short the more positive and and happy you are for her, in turn will make her realize the sad truth that she has lost you. This may make her think twice about her choices. Make sence?

So next time she pushes a botton let her know you don't feel like engaging her right now. and when she make those snide remarks, wish her the best of luck...all with a smile on your face!!!!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Driven---its time to up the ante

Monday go to the bank---take all marital monies, and put them in an acct---with your name only on it

Cancel all credit cards, cept those with your name on them

Stop talking with her---just speak if it's necessary to living

Tell her to prepare to leave the home, as you are allowing it to go to a short sale, so you can get out from under

tell her if necessary bankruptcy will be filed

Tell her you have moved on, and as of monday you consider yourself legally seperated from her---therefore---she is as of now responsible for paying one-half of everything---utilities, credit cards, car payment, medical/home/auto insurance, mortgage---food, clothes, she is responsible for her own, you will take care of daughter, and dogs

SHE WANTS TO BE A BIG SHOT ON HER OWN---ACCOMADATE HER---and do not put up with any of her foul mouth

Have a VAR, working so you can record everything going on in the house to protect yourself

She needs a good kick in the butt---give it to her on monday

Another thing you can do---tomorrow, set aside a few hours, and go to the computer, hit google, then hit your state, FAMILY CODES---read every single code---you will know everything there is to know about the workings of your states, divorce/custody/property laws---IT WILL SAVE YOU A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY IN LEGAL CONSULTATION FEES----FOR THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT AN ATTY DOES, WHEN HE NEEDS TO CHECK OUT THE LAW


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## Tommo (Oct 1, 2011)

It seems that everyone makes their own trouble. One cheats...the other has feet of clay.

Been there...


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