# My wifes toxic friend is going to cause our divorce!



## peace

Hi everyone,
I will make this short and simple. My wife of nine years has a friend whom I have never trusted because she has a miserable marriage. My wife will defend her and hide things from me that has to do with her. I just found out that she has separated from her husband. This is why my wife has changed in the past two month. I found out from an outside friend, whenever her cell phone rings and it is her friend she will either walk outside to talk her or make her answers short and simple. 

Yesterday, I over heard her talking to her friend when she did know I was inside the house. Her friend was telling her about her weekend and my wife said to her that she had to come up with a plan for next weekend. What I gathered from that is that she has to come up with a plan to go out with her friend. So what I did, I walked in the room and she turned red and changed the conversation. When she hanged up I asked her if everything was ok, her replied was yes! why. 

I simply looked at her and saw a cloud of lies in her face. She is going to get a rude awaking, we have an eight year old daughter and nine years of marriage. I have been more than patient in the past two month and have accepted her three apologies for coming home at 4 and 6 am twice without even a phone call. I am at the end of the rope, I have done nothing wrong do deserve this from her. She has lied to me in the past and that has always been a problem in me trusting her. At this point I do not look forward to weekends because I feel that something will trigger for her to come up with an excuse to go out. 

I need to be firm and assertive here because I do not want to say the wrong thing that will make me the bad guy. Our daughter has also seen a change in my wife, pretty scary! So what do I say when she comes up with a reason to go out. I told her the last time that I will not tolerate this anymore and that she needs to be honest with me. I can not keep living day by day not knowing what will come next. Thank you in advance everyone!


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## Dedicated2Her

Couple of things: 

Yes. Going out until that time is totally unacceptable. Has she told you what they are doing all night? Going out to bars? This is a big red flag, but it could be that they are sitting at her friends house talking girl stuff. I know, hard to believe. But, crazy as it is, it turned out to be true with my wife. I did the GPS, keylogger, etc. Next time she does ask her this: "What would you like me to tell our daughter when she asks where you are at 3am?" 
My wife and I established a boundry. No staying out past the kids bedtime unless previously agreed upon by both of us. This goes for both. 

Secondly, you are on the roller coaster right now. That is why it is so important to focus on YOU and your daughter. Stop trying to read her actions. She is in a fog. Don't join in with her. 

Lastly, Get to counseling.


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## LuckyCharmH

you are the Man of the house at this point since conversation from both sides didnt work. 
tell her she is not welcomed home after 10pm. 
and demand that she cuts her relation with that woman. 
record the days she comes late. have evidance such as credit card used at 3am and 2am in case things get worse and go to court. 
find out where does she go
there is no excuse for a married woman with kids to stay with friends without her husband after 10pm. 
if she does that often then she is trying to find an affair.


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## peace

I am in the roller coaster for sure. I have done all the that I could do to stay sane. However, after devoting all my time to my family which I thought it was great, my wife has become selfish. I have never given her any reason to do this, I respect her and I always include her in anything I do. I have never hidden anything from her ever. I just want to put a stop to it verbally in a manner where I get my point across. I can not let this continue like this it is causing me to not function at work. So when that time comes that she approaches me and tells me, btw, I am going to my friends for drinks out of the blue... What do I tell her right then in there to stop her cold.


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## Hicks

peace said:


> What do I tell her right then in there to stop her cold.


Nothing. You can't negotiate your way out of this.
In advance you tell her that going out and having this friend must end or you will be throwing her out, filing for divorce, ending our marriage or whatever words you want to use. Then, follow through with it such as by changing the locks, withdrawing financial support, or speaking to an attorney.

Basically, let her know there will be a consequence, let her make the choice, and then make the consequence reality if she makes the choice you do not want her to make.


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## peace

You know what makes this so difficult, when you are in love with someone and because of know reason her selfishness has destroid everything we had. My daughter is the only one that has kept me in sink. If it was`nt for her this marriage would be in a divorce court already. In the nine years of marriage, I have been loyal, do more than expected around the house and she knows it. I am even Mr. Mom, I take my daughter to school everyday, participate in all her activities and parties and help her with her homework everyday. Basically, she will get a rude awaking because I can not tolerate this abusive behavier anymore.


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## Dedicated2Her

Peace----it's the same stuff. My wife became extremely selfish during our intial stages of all our crap. You are in this for the long haul. Everyone has a different way of dealing with this. You have to find yours based upon what your particular relationship needs. Once I found out my wife was being completely honest with me, (took alot of snooping) I backed off completely. She said she needed space. Well, here you go. Trust me, get into counseling. She has to work through some of her own issues, and you cannot do it for her. Gradually, my wife is starting to take more ownership in the household stuff. She even is kind of fun to be around now. Does that mean intimacy is coming back? Who knows. But, it takes time once you progress into the anger stage. 

Big thing is this. All women are different. Looking for different things. You have to be the protector of your family. Find out where she is. Find out what you need to be in order for your sanity and to help her through this. Trust me. She will regret her actions one day down the road. Don't regret yours. You are not responsible "for" her. You are responsible "to" her. Take care of you and your daughter. Your wife is on a roller coaster herself. Do not join her at least in front of her.


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## peace

Dedicated2Her said:


> Peace----it's the same stuff. My wife became extremely selfish during our intial stages of all our crap. You are in this for the long haul. Everyone has a different way of dealing with this. You have to find yours based upon what your particular relationship needs. Once I found out my wife was being completely honest with me, (took alot of snooping) I backed off completely. She said she needed space. Well, here you go. Trust me, get into counseling. She has to work through some of her own issues, and you cannot do it for her. Gradually, my wife is starting to take more ownership in the household stuff. She even is kind of fun to be around now. Does that mean intimacy is coming back? Who knows. But, it takes time once you progress into the anger stage.
> 
> Big thing is this. All women are different. Looking for different things. You have to be the protector of your family. Find out where she is. Find out what you need to be in order for your sanity and to help her through this. Trust me. She will regret her actions one day down the road. Don't regret yours. You are not responsible "for" her. You are responsible "to" her. Take care of you and your daughter. Your wife is on a roller coaster herself. Do not join her at least in front of her.


I hear you big time and thank you! It is tough not knowing if you are coming or going. I know she is a roller coaster herself, but man I am too because I carry my heart on my shoulders and being pushed against the wall is not easy. I just need to focus and yes wrry only about my daughter for now. How people let themselfs get caught up in other peoples drama beats the hell out of me.


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## turnera

You can't control her. All you can control is what YOU do in response to her. The best way I've seen husbands like you get back in the drivers seat is to say 'What you are doing is unacceptable and I won't stay married to a woman who wants to be single. I will help you pack your bags, and DD8 stays here. If you don't want to leave, you will STOP being friends with this woman, or I will file for divorce and 100% custody.'


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## Dedicated2Her

"but man I am too because I carry my heart on my shoulders and being pushed against the wall is not easy"

I'm an extrovert myself and an "open book" as my therapist says. This is not the time to be an open book. Your wife needs to think there is strength in you that she never knew was there. Some women need you to kick them out. Some women just need to see calm, consistent actions on a daily basis. Fortunately, mine needs consistency. ( I think) I can't tell you the amount of times I lost it in the first month in front of her. It actually hurt the process. Cowboy up. Grow a "set". Be able to stand before God and say, "I did everything I could to save my marriage." You do that. It doesn't matter what she does.

Oh yes. The separated chick. Why is she separated? Bottom line: Any relationship that encourages your wife to spend time away from her daughter overnight at this stage is NOT a good one! Sure she can use her to vent (which she needs), but not overnight outside of the home.


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## peace

turnera said:


> You can't control her. All you can control is what YOU do in response to her. The best way I've seen husbands like you get back in the drivers seat is to say 'What you are doing is unacceptable and I won't stay married to a woman who wants to be single. I will help you pack your bags, and DD8 stays here. If you don't want to leave, you will STOP being friends with this woman, or I will file for divorce and 100% custody.'


Thank you for the input. I needed something like this. I will practice this message because it is the honest truth. 

What does DD8 stand for?


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## peace

Dedicated2Her said:


> "but man I am too because I carry my heart on my shoulders and being pushed against the wall is not easy"
> 
> I'm an extrovert myself and an "open book" as my therapist says. This is not the time to be an open book. Your wife needs to think there is strength in you that she never knew was there. Some women need you to kick them out. Some women just need to see calm, consistent actions on a daily basis. Fortunately, mine needs consistency. ( I think) I can't tell you the amount of times I lost it in the first month in front of her. It actually hurt the process. Cowboy up. Grow a "set". Be able to stand before God and say, "I did everything I could to save my marriage." You do that. It doesn't matter what she does.
> 
> Oh yes. The separated chick. Why is she separated? Bottom line: Any relationship that encourages your wife to spend time away from her daughter overnight at this stage is NOT a good one! Sure she can use her to vent (which she needs), but not overnight outside of the home.


Very True,
No reason to stay over night to comfort a looser.


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## turnera

DD8 = eight year old dear daughter


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## Dedicated2Her

Peace----Just be very weary about speaking in regards to the separated girl. My wife has become best friends with a divorced girl with no kids. I thought she was a bad influence. Come to find out that the girl's husband had a PA and refused to stop so they could go to counseling. She had to divorce him. The girl has actually been very supportive of our marriage and is surprised that I have been willing to work so hard. Sometimes, things are not as they seem. Just be very aware.


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## Figuring it out

peace said:


> Thank you for the input. I needed something like this. I will practice this message because it is the honest truth.
> 
> What does DD8 stand for?



DD8 stands for Dear Daughter aged 8.


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## Figuring it out

Peace - so sorry that this is happening to you. She's being selfish. Did she always act this way?

Maybe it's a mid-life crisis type of thing. Did she hit a big milestone birthday? Did she lose a loved-one close to her? How was your relationship before she started drifting away?

I know you can't help her through her issues, she has to do that alone. But knowing where the root of them originated could be beneficial. 

Her selfishness may have nothing at all to do with you or your daughter. She may need some time to realize that the grass is not always greener and she has a great family at home.

Best of luck.


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## the guy

turnure is right on, you need to tell exactly that.

I'm in the tough love group, so be firm and most likely she will call you pluff, so be prepared to pack her things.

When I started packing my W things I used the suitcase and some trash bags, once they are sitting on the floor let her know that you will be right back and go down to a market and get some boxes. Take your time and let her stew over the site of all her stuff on the floor. In my case when I returned with the boxes she was on the phone canceling her date. I continued to back until she called her friend again and explained the sitch in detail explain that she needed to work on her marraige.

Be warned there is a very good chance that she will be gone and the the suitcase and trash bags will be gone. This will at least give some peace as you pack up the rest of her things and take them to her friends house. At this point you will need to bring a witness, just incase.

One way or another you need to make a strong point on what you will and will not tolorate living in the maritial home while she leaves with that "friend". 

You have several option if her belonging can't go over to her friends, there are her parents, storage, or even your garage.

Distance your self and no matter how much you want to call or pick up her call refrain from that. The point is making her believe that you are confident in moving on with out her, you are gaining your self respect back from 2 months of direspect, and you are stronger then ever before, believing that she has made the choice to leave and except that.

As much as you want to beg, cry, and plead do not. Its not attractive to chicks. Stay away from her as much as you..giving her the taste of what thing to come will be like.

I can only hope she see the seriousness in your actions and desides to end all contact with this vampire who is sucking up your marraige and hurting a family before she picks up those bags and walk out for ... what she thinks is the weekend, and what you know as the rest of her life.

Be strong this may last awhile it may end in that moment. take the gamble you are losing already, pushing her along will only make her realize the consequences for her behavior sooner.

This is just my $0.02 but the bottom line is stopping all contact with that vampire of a friend.

Heres one more thing-go with her.


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## peace

Thank you so much for the advice so far. Her friend is not giving her good advice at all because if my own wife delays to get home to be in the phone with her is because she is not a good influence. When any of my friends call me I have nothing to hide from her plain and simple. Her friend would not even come to our house because my wife knows that I know about all her dirty laundry. She has put this marriage at risk and I am going to do what I have read in this thread. I am hurting everyday about this situtation because it will come to and end due to her selfishness.


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## the guy

Keep in mind you still have a few days to take a more gentler approach. What ever you do do not play the "packing" card until the last minute. The reason I say this is you want the biggest impact you can get.

I forgot did you aready let her know that you over heard her plans for this weekend?

Stay calm and just act indiferent, do some dejunking around the house, maybe even the master closet.

Call up the bank & credit cards and be prepared to canel if this thing heads south. you may want to freeze them until you get closer to Friday. Just tell her there was some fruad and things will be froozen until next week. It may be a good idea to take her car in for some work on Friday. 

All this is so controling, stay with the plan and work the plan. Set your boundries and let her deside if she wants to break up the family.

I get a little crazy sometimes, tring to controll her by messing with her car is silly, but please protect your self financialy, now!


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## Catherine602

What she is doing putting this adult woman ahead of her husband and a child that depends on her. The woman is probably envious of your wife's relationship and wants to manipulate your wife to be as miserable as she is. 

Your fight is not with your wife but with this woman. The woman must be neutralized in your wife's mind. Please forgive me for asking but, is this woman bi and is it possible that she could be seducing your wife? Even if this is not the case, it is almost like your wife is having an affair and maybe you should follow the guidelines to handle affairs. 

I would also become more cold and distant with her. Stop all show of solicitude she does not deserve you devotion right now and she has got to feel what it will be like without your support. Don't resist her having this girl for a friend but all her on shirking her responsibilities. 

Start going out yourself buy new clothes exercise. Do anything you can to disengage and change your appearance and attitude. treat her in an offhand way. I don't know if this is right but I have a feeling if she thought you were in search of more compatible company, she may come to her senses. Maybe others will weigh in on this strategy. 

There must be a strategy to make her see how foolish she is to be manipulated away from her own husband and child!! Do you think appealing to her common sense in a non-confrotational way or appealing to her sense of duty to her child and her vow to love her husband or to her basic intelligence for detecting that she is destroying her family over this toxic woman.


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> What she is doing putting this adult woman ahead of her husband and a child that depends on her. The woman is probably envious of your wife's relationship and wants to manipulate your wife to be as miserable as she is.


Yes! This friend is envious of her without a doubt. I told her that ten years ago when I met her for the first time. You can spot a miserable person the minute they open their mouth and the way they look at you. She is envious because of many reasons, the first is that we are great family with no drama. She has only heard and seen how great we get alone compared to her marriage. She is proud to have this control over my wife. I know she has control because I could never say anything about her. Misery loves Company and my wife has taken a bight out of that already. I will hold my grounds and write everything I need to practice my speech. God bless me and my daughter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SHARKY

peace said:


> Yes! This friend is envious of her without a doubt. I told her that ten years ago when I met her for the first time. You can spot a miserable person the minute they open their mouth and the way they look at you. She is envious because of many reasons, the first is that we are great family with no drama. She has only heard and seen how great we get alone compared to her marriage. She is proud to have this control over my wife. I know she has control because I could never say anything about her. Misery loves Company and my wife has taken a bight out of that already. I will hold my grounds and write everything I need to practice my speech. God bless me and my daughter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Peace I feel your pain! Real good men are hard to find. Men who take action for their family at whatever cost. From what I have gathered you are stuck with what to say to not antagonize her in any way. That is great because you do not need to tell her that she has done this and has done that. That will only put more fuel in her fire, you need to firm and tell her like it is. When this takes place be calm and let her know in WE terms. Show her that you are for real, be assertive at all times and do not let her disrespect you. If she gets loud tell her that the only way you can talk to her is as an adult conversation. Be strong my friend true men are hare hard to find. She will run into a brick wall when she realizes that you are not around anymore when your daughter ask about you all the time. Believe in Karma. God bless you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

I like what Cats saying go out and make your self look better do it know before the week end. This will get her wondering, what would you think if you came home and your spouse was cleaning out the closet, butting things in the garage, wearing nice cloths, new hair cut, some nice cologn, a big smile on there face and BAMB, Friday rolles around and there packing all your stuff up before you leave your family for the weekend.

The sooner you get her second quessing her discisions in that you won't be around any more and the possibility of her loosing the stability and security of what she has taken for granted for two months will blow her mind.


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## Atholk

Um... 4am and 6am twice?

You're 100% sure she isn't cheating on you on those nights?


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## the guy

Of course she was cheating, cheating him out of a healthy marriage, who cares if it was some guy or a vampire of a friend, he needs to set his boundries by putting up the wall that will prevent him from continuously getting hurt and stop any additional pain that this sitch. will cause.

Cheating is relative, be it with a roll in the hay, online,hobbies,gambling,friends, he is being cheated out of a healthy marraige and in order to repair this marraige that one negitive influence must be removed so the repairs can take hold. 
For many just getting to the point of knowing there is a problem is most of the battle. 

I would think that if my spouse packed up all my stuff and wanted me to leave.... well they may think I have a problem, but hopefully she sees that it is her that is making the bad discisions. 

Thats the hard part, most think they aren't doing nothing wrong until they are alone living out of a dispair. Wondering were their life went and why they have collected so many dogs.


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## peace

the guy said:


> Of course she was cheating, cheating him out of a healthy marriage, who cares if it was some guy or a vampire of a friend, he needs to set his boundries by putting up the wall that will prevent him from continuously getting hurt and stop any additional pain that this sitch. will cause.
> 
> Cheating is relative, be it with a roll in the hay, online,hobbies,gambling,friends, he is being cheated out of a healthy marraige and in order to repair this marraige that one negitive influence must be removed so the repairs can take hold.
> For many just getting to the point of knowing there is a problem is most of the battle.
> 
> I would think that if my spouse packed up all my stuff and wanted me to leave.... well they may think I have a problem, but hopefully she sees that it is her that is making the bad discisions.
> 
> Thats the hard part, most think they aren't doing nothing wrong until they are alone living out of a dispair. Wondering were their life went and why they have collected so many dogs.


Exactly she has cheated me from what I thought it was a great relationship. I dress good everyday, look good and smell good always have. I am in great shape and look and feel great. So with that said I am proud of myself, thank god for that. I have kept her intrigued with a few things because I get home half an hour later than the norm just because. I changed my gym hours to the evenings that has her on pins and needles because the gym is coed and more people are there in the evenings. I just can't get over how selfish a person could be knowing that the outcome will not be good in the end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You teach people how to treat you.

If you accept her bad behavior, she will continue it.

If you're not ready to kick her out today, there is another route you can take that may or may not work. It's called Plan A at marriagebuilders, I don't know what affaircare calls it at her website, but it basically means you learn how you Love Bust her (how you make her unhappy), and you STOP those bad behaviors. It's hard work to change those habits, but it's worth doing (for yourself as well as her). At MB, you can print out the LB questionnaires, and both of you can fill them out.

Once you've done that for a month at least (it takes that long to change a habit), then get the Emotional Needs questionnaire, and you both fill one out. It will tell you what her most important ENs are. YOU need to be the ONE person filling those needs. Right now, her GIRLFRIEND is meeting at least one, if not more, of those ENs. You need to show your wife that YOU can do it better. That she can be happier with YOU. 

Are you willing to do that? It's hard work, but worth it. You should be doing it anyway, to be the best husband you can be.


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## Izabella

Hicks said:


> Nothing. You can't negotiate your way out of this.
> In advance you tell her that going out and having this friend must end or you will be throwing her out, filing for divorce, ending our marriage or whatever words you want to use. Then, follow through with it such as by changing the locks, withdrawing financial support, or speaking to an attorney.
> 
> Basically, let her know there will be a consequence, let her make the choice, and then make the consequence reality if she makes the choice you do not want her to make.



please forgive me if this was already said,i didnt get a chance to read all replies as i dont have much time right now,but i agree with Hicks in a way.
but i would say something such as
"you know how i feel about your friend and why,im having trust issues due to your lies and hiding tghings from me and staying out to 4 in the morning is disrepectful to me and our marriage.
im asking you to limit your friendship with your friend and to stop going to bars/clubs as it leads to trouble and something married people should do together,not apart.
im unhappy the way things have been in our marriage the past couple months and im asking you to help me in fixing it and to stop the behavior that is hurting me.i been respectful and loving to you in our marriage and if you ask me to stop a behavior that was hurting,i would.
if you refuse to stop the behaviors that our hurting me and our marriage,i will take that as our marriage is not important to you and maybe we should seek a therpist or a separation were you would be the one staying somewere since you are the one not willing to work on us,as i refuse to be in a marriage were im being disrespected and were trust is an issue.

be firm and mean it if you say it though,be ready to follow through of letting her go.
give her a couple days to think about what you told her before the weekend comes,see what she does.

i wish you both the best


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## MrK

Wives partying all night at meat markets is (unbelievably) a controvertial issue. Maybe not on a site like this where everyone automatically thinks there is infidelity going on. But in the outside world, you'd be considered controling and paranoid for you having a problem with your wife wanting a little fun out with her friend at night. You need proof that it is not innocent. A good PI may cost a few hundred dolars, but I GUARANTEE he will witness some pretty unacceptable behavior on her part. Probably VERY unaceptable behavior. It will be expensive, but it will be all written up in a nice report with details and pictures. Maybe names. You wil only need him for one night.

I can GUARANEE it. What could she be doing that's innocent until 4 AM? You need proof. Accusations without it will make you look pretty pathetic to most people. I've been there. I know.


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## the guy

MrK makes a great point and I'm a big believer in having evidence, it worked for me in confronting my W.

This weekend my a big oppertunity to gather the evidence and then give her the choice to stop hanging with that vampire or work on the marraige.

The PI has worked great for others, other options are voice activated recorders in her car, or having a trusted friend or associate follow her.

Again MrK is so correct, if she does leave she WILL make you look like the bad guy.


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## peace

the guy said:


> MrK makes a great point and I'm a big believer in having evidence, it worked for me in confronting my W.
> 
> This weekend my a big oppertunity to gather the evidence and then give her the choice to stop hanging with that vampire or work on the marraige.
> 
> The PI has worked great for others, other options are voice activated recorders in her car, or having a trusted friend or associate follow her.
> 
> Again MrK is so correct, if she does leave she WILL make you look like the bad guy.


I have read all these post and have gathered a world of information. I have been assertive and patient because I do not want to the bad guy. However, I will let her know in a very calm manner how it will be or else. I am ready but yet nervous at the same time. I want to also make sure that my daughter is not around to hear anything. My daughter comes first and in the future if divorce were the case she will find out who checked out in this marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

peace said:


> I have read all these post and have gathered a world of information. I have been assertive and patient because I do not want to the bad guy. However, I will let her know in a very calm manner how it will be or else. I am ready but yet nervous at the same time. I want to also make sure that my daughter is not around to hear anything. My daughter comes first and in the future if divorce were the case she will find out who checked out in this marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The more you assert yourself the lower your nervousness will be. She is going to push back big time but keep a firm stance don't back down because that is what she expects of you. She try all the tricks to intimidate you to make you back down.

You don't want to seem like the bad!!! Someone has to be bad to get this woman your wife in line. Every one is different but I am very opinionated and I learn from debating and sometimes being provocative and defiant. My husband does not let me get away with my shenanigans. You know how that makes me feel - safe - safe because there is a strong sensible man at the helm of the family ship. 

I could handle my kids on my own but it would be very bad for them and me. I need his boundaries and him. I tell you this because no matter how strong a personality a woman has she wants to know that her man will not let her get away with walking all over him. 

The stronger the personality the more the woman wants to be rained in. We may complain but most woman like the self assured man. It's a gross generalization but the dynamic is their in one form or another.

When you get nervous push it away you know that you are right, kick some butt, be badder than she is, that will impress her and get you the respect that you are due. It will take time persistence and consistency. Especially when she resist the strongest, she will probably object strenuously. 

Read some of the post for inspiration and know in your heat that she is wrong and needs you to get control. Now, get ta' whippen' peace.


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## the guy

CAt- that is some awsome perspective you shared, and I thank you.

The point I wanted to focus on was the sh*t will hit the fan, most likly on Fri. when or if she tells you she leaving for the week end. Make sure you don't get sucked in to the "rewriting history" thing. Stay on point, she will want to say how bad things are or how unhappy she has been for a long time. She will then go to the "blame game" were it all your fault she is behaving that way. Do not fall for it. the line in the sand is going to be drawn and no matter what other BS she throws out there the simple and only issue at that specific poit is her discision to stay or leave.

I read some were that its bad to tell what her consequences will be, but I still like the idea of packing her stuff up infront of her


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> The more you assert yourself the lower your nervousness will be. She is going to push back big time but keep a firm stance don't back down because that is what she expects of you. She try all the tricks to intimidate you to make you back down.
> 
> You don't want to seem like the bad!!! Someone has to be bad to get this woman your wife in line. Every one is different but I am very opinionated and I learn from debating and sometimes being provocative and defiant. My husband does not let me get away with my shenanigans. You know how that makes me feel - safe - safe because there is a strong sensible man at the helm of the family ship.
> 
> I could handle my kids on my own but it would be very bad for them and me. I need his boundaries and him. I tell you this because no matter how strong a personality a woman has she wants to know that her man will not let her get away with walking all over him.
> 
> The stronger the personality the more the woman wants to be rained in. We may complain but most woman like the self assured man. It's a gross generalization but the dynamic is their in one form or another.
> 
> When you get nervous push it away you know that you are right, kick some butt, be badder than she is, that will impress her and get you the respect that you are due. It will take time persistence and consistency. Especially when she resist the strongest, she will probably object strenuously.
> 
> Read some of the post for inspiration and know in your heat that she is wrong and needs you to get control. Now, get ta' whippen' peace.


Cat, you made some great points there and I thank you for that. I have always been a leader in whatever I do, she knows that and I have always been straight forward with her. She will see the strong man that she married. I will not bring up the past for any reason, she has nothing in her side to make me the bad guy. Even though I know she will through it out there for her sake. I will be strong and firm and cool, if she tries to provoke me I will let her know that this is and will be an adult conversation and to respect me. She will the dark side in me, I just need to get my words out dead on track to make her see how things will be moving forward. Thank god for my Black Berry, I don't have to use our home computer to get on here. Again Cat thank you very much sweetie!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

the guy said:


> CAt- that is some awsome perspective you shared, and I thank you.
> 
> The point I wanted to focus on was the sh*t will hit the fan, most likly on Fri. when or if she tells you she leaving for the week end. Make sure you don't get sucked in to the "rewriting history" thing. Stay on point, she will want to say how bad things are or how unhappy she has been for a long time. She will then go to the "blame game" were it all your fault she is behaving that way. Do not fall for it. the line in the sand is going to be drawn and no matter what other BS she throws out there the simple and only issue at that specific poit is her discision to stay or leave.
> 
> I read some were that its bad to tell what her consequences will be, but I still like the idea of packing her stuff up infront of her


Guy, depending how it goes I will tell her that I will help her pack her bags. 

BTW, I am 40 and she is 35
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SHARKY

peace said:


> Guy, depending how it goes I will tell her that I will help her pack her bags.
> 
> BTW, I am 40 and she is 35
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Peace she is no teenager by any stretch. She needs to grow up and smell the coffee. I'm with Cat on her post, dead on. We need to get you a good starting point, when the moment comes up. You need to be ready with that first fresh start to get your point across. I don't have one right now, but I know many here do! Let's see what will be the best starting point for you to get you motivated to say the right things. Good luck bro! And yes it is great to have the ability to write via mobile. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Yes! I need a good starting point for sure, something that can get me started in the right direction. She might feel guilty about the end of the marriage and is acting childishly and selfishly hoping to make me so upset that I will seek the divorce first.


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## the guy

I think the best starting point with reqards to confronting her about this weekend is starting off with letting her know that you love her, even saying it again. Then bring up the marriage and how important it is, and repeating the fact that it is important to the whole family. Then you can say something down the lines of "you do not want to control her so it is her discision to do what she thinks is best with regard to your love, the marriage, and the family".

Let her respond and she will just go and blah blah blah, it realy won't matter what she says then this would be the time to explain your boundries and what you will not tolorate. As she responds, and let her finish, you can repeat the whole thing over again.

I suggest writing it down... not really worring about what her replies are, just the words that you want to say ....and that may need to be repeated. You seem like the kind of guy that can handle him self, it just that emotion can get the best of us.

I hope she makes the right discision, but there is no guarantee, and before this confrontation. Hopefully you have come to terms with the out come if she decides baddly.

I also suggest you stay away from any threat that you may want to throw at her. If any thing give her a hug and let her know that you will miss her. Most likely she will think its just for the weekend, little does she know it will be the rest of her life.

I guess she will soon figure it out when you help her pack not only for the weekend but the rest of her life. She most likely will not want help b/c of the certain types of clothes she will be wearing, If you know what I mean.

I hope the statement is big enough and she makes the right choice.


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## turnera

That's a great plan. Be calm, loving, but FIRM. Explain that she can do whatever she wants, but you hope she will choose the family. Because, if she doesn't, you will have to choose to no longer be married to her.


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## peace

the guy said:


> I think the best starting point with reqards to confronting her about this weekend is starting off with letting her know that you love her, even saying it again. Then bring up the marriage and how important it is, and repeating the fact that it is important to the whole family. Then you can say something down the lines of "you do not want to control her so it is her discision to do what she thinks is best with regard to your love, the marriage, and the family".
> 
> Let her respond and she will just go and blah blah blah, it realy won't matter what she says then this would be the time to explain your boundries and what you will not tolorate. As she responds, and let her finish, you can repeat the whole thing over again.
> 
> I suggest writing it down... not really worring about what her replies are, just the words that you want to say ....and that may need to be repeated. You seem like the kind of guy that can handle him self, it just that emotion can get the best of us.
> 
> I hope she makes the right discision, but there is no guarantee, and before this confrontation. Hopefully you have come to terms with the out come if she decides baddly.
> 
> I also suggest you stay away from any threat that you may want to throw at her. If any thing give her a hug and let her know that you will miss her. Most likely she will think its just for the weekend, little does she know it will be the rest of her life.
> 
> I guess she will soon figure it out when you help her pack not only for the weekend but the rest of her life. She most likely will not want help b/c of the certain types of clothes she will be wearing, If you know what I mean.
> 
> I hope the statement is big enough and she makes the right choice.


Guy thank you so much for such great advice. Your thoughts are inspiring to say the least. Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

turnera said:


> That's a great plan. Be calm, loving, but FIRM. Explain that she can do whatever she wants, but you hope she will choose the family. Because, if she doesn't, you will have to choose to no longer be married to her.


Turnera exactly ! I will write these down and practice. 
Thank you so much!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

In our nine years of marriage we have never fought enough to lead to what could happen in one conversation. She hates confrentation and has never seen me confront her in the way that I will. By confronting her and telling her the things that have been said here by The Guy, Turnera and others. Will she be shocked or the least surprised! I hope she has decided to do the right thing and not continue the road of distruction. However, I am getting ready by just the advice given here. I can`t thank you all enough! Please keep it coming it is just fueling my ego.


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## Catherine602

She will be shocked peace and her reaction will probably be "how dare he" since she has been getting away with it so long. As a feisty woman myself here is what I think. 

She may take you up on your offer to leave as a face saving act. I doubt if she will accept your boundaries at first blush. The she will probably try to bargain or bluster her way back in, maybe she will use the entitlement argument she has a right to do bla bla. 

She can certainly do as she pleases but not as long as she remains your wife. If she misses you and sees how life following this miserable woman like a loss cat will be, she may come to her senses. Depending upon the type of person she is, she may not come back to you. 

If she does not come back it will not be because she does not love you but because she has too much pride. If she comes back do every thing you can so that she does not feel like she lost. 

She actually won, she gets to live a good life with a man who loves her as apposed to an existence sharing the bitterness and anger of her friend. Let her be left to that as her future without you. She'll get the message.

If she stays with you be prepared for constant testing. It will require all of those leadership take charge skills you have developed in your work life. it will look


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> She will be shocked peace and her reaction will probably be "how dare he" since she has been getting away with it so long. As a feisty woman myself here is what I think.
> 
> She may take you up on your offer to leave as a face saving act. I doubt if she will accept your boundaries at first blush. The she will probably try to bargain or bluster her way back in, maybe she will use the entitlement argument she has a right to do bla bla.
> 
> She can certainly do as she pleases but not as long as she remains your wife. If she misses you and sees how life following this miserable woman like a loss cat will be, she may come to her senses. Depending upon the type of person she is, she may not come back to you.
> 
> If she does not come back it will not be because she does not love you but because she has too much pride. If she comes back do every thing you can so that she does not feel like she lost.
> 
> She actually won, she gets to live a good life with a man who loves her as apposed to an existence sharing the bitterness and anger of her friend. Let her be left to that as her future without you. She'll get the message.
> 
> If she stays with you be prepared for constant testing. It will require all of those leadership take charge skills you have developed in your work life. it will look


Thank you Cat!
Well put, I read it over and over and I am taking notes.I would have in my wildest dreams think that I would be put in this drama. What a life test for sure at age 40.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Life test....interesting, I think I failed the TF (toxic friend) test 13 years ago (7 years married). See I just walked away, I let my W spiral downward by not standing up and say "no, I will not tolorate the behavior". In fact I did it with a smile on my face, knowing I would no longer need to give her attention. 

In stead I left her to her own devises and just took what I wanted (sex) and left her fend for her self in a loveless marraige. This TF would watch my kid while she slept around, and when the TF moved away my W continued on what TF taught her or let her experience. 
What I mean is once my W got used to cheating... when TF moved away it just became natural.

So thirteen years have gone by and I just dismissed my W and focused on my career. Well 20 men later I decided to make that change and focus on making my life better. So out of 19-1/2 years of marraige 13 of them were so unhealthy.

The odd thing is she didn't put up a fight, simular to what Cat is talking about, but I just think after such a long time with a unhealth marriage we both were wanting a change.

I think 13 years ago, if I made my stand, I have to agree with Cat... I would have had a much tougher fight. I think my point is.. don't be miserable for another 10 years. Take that stand that I didn't and now regret so much. 

P,
Thanks for letting me vent and I think you will be all right even if she bails she will be back. Just dont let her back on Monday. Toxic friend are like bad fumes, they will soon drift away. Its the guy that she meets, there the one's that are hard to get rid of.


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## peace

the guy said:


> Life test....interesting, I think I failed the TF (toxic friend) test 13 years ago (7 years married). See I just walked away, I let my W spiral downward by not standing up and say "no, I will not tolorate the behavior". In fact I did it with a smile on my face, knowing I would no longer need to give her attention.
> 
> In stead I left her to her own devises and just took what I wanted (sex) and left her fend for her self in a loveless marraige. This TF would watch my kid while she slept around, and when the TF moved away my W continued on what TF taught her or let her experience.
> What I mean is once my W got used to cheating... when TF moved away it just became natural.
> 
> So thirteen years have gone by and I just dismissed my W and focused on my career. Well 20 men later I decided to make that change and focus on making my life better. So out of 19-1/2 years of marraige 13 of them were so unhealthy.
> 
> The odd thing is she didn't put up a fight, simular to what Cat is talking about, but I just think after such a long time with a unhealth marriage we both were wanting a change.
> 
> I think 13 years ago, if I made my stand, I have to agree with Cat... I would have had a much tougher fight. I think my point is.. don't be miserable for another 10 years. Take that stand that I didn't and now regret so much.
> 
> P,
> Thanks for letting me vent and I think you will be all right even if she bails she will be back. Just dont let her back on Monday. Toxic friend are like bad fumes, they will soon drift away. Its the guy that she meets, there the one's that are hard to get rid of.


Wow Guy! What a story my friend. No wonder you speak from the heart. I hear you bro, I won't spend another ten years like this. No way no how, thank you for your story it really brings things into perspective. Thank you for following my thread, it meens a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Your welcome and yes when I come up on a thread and I see ..I mean read about a simular sitch. that I have been through, I like to get a little involved.

I may not always be right and there are many different perspective... I just count on other fine folks here on TAM to balance out my mind set with offer other opinions. 

Generaly I see most replies standing behind the tough love approach (my favorite group) versus the sit back and give her space and time group.

Again thank you for not ignoring my last post, Something tells me that she will hate your guts for a few but when its all said and done she will realize you were only protecting your family.

The last time I replied this much was when this guy had a party girl for a W and the tough love thing wasn't working out so well so he got a PI and when his chick saw the evidence and had no choice but to admit her affair, she made the right choice and went back to working on the marriage.

I won't tell you to stay strong, you sound strong enough, I'll just say don't give up on yourself or your family.


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## turnera

My take is, we aren't 'hard' enough in our dealings with people. We are conditioned to shut up, accept things we don't want to, and fear to make waves. What happens then is that people who need a stronger partner (like your wife) start losing respect for you, even hating you, for not being strong enough. And look what she gravitated to: a strong partner.

She NEEDS you to stand up for your marriage - in a LOVING way.


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## Catherine602

T i think boys are has thought to be repectful of women, which is certainly what should be. But they are not told how to be respectful and be a "man" in a relationship at the same time. In the past, i think fathers spoke their son's about reponsibilty and instilled in them the second level of respect, how to manage their their family as a leader so that they can take care of the responsibilties of the family. Somehow this second tier of male behavior advice has been dropped in our culture. I don't want to blame feminism per say but, the concepts may have been distorted such that men may feel guilty in asserting any authority in a relationship. 

However, I think that can be overcome by fathers talking to their sons about what it takes for a successful long-term relationship and explaining what may happen if they don't balance good with assertiveness. In addition young men should start the way they mean to go, speak with a potential partner about what kind of relationship they desire and consider it a deal breaker if the women does not want the same thing. When they get married they sould be prepared to meet the challenges of the relationship. This is for good men who are committed and responsible not weak irresponsible men who could not lead a parade of clowns. 

I may have it wrong because I am naturally sibmissive in my home and could not have had a relationship with a too nice guy. I probably would have felt so unsafe that I would have gone into career mode and bossed him around to manage the family. I would be unhappy in a situation like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

the guy said:


> Your welcome and yes when I come up on a thread and I see ..I mean read about a simular sitch. that I have been through, I like to get a little involved.
> 
> I may not always be right and there are many different perspective... I just count on other fine folks here on TAM to balance out my mind set with offer other opinions.
> 
> Generaly I see most replies standing behind the tough love approach (my favorite group) versus the sit back and give her space and time group.
> 
> Again thank you for not ignoring my last post, Something tells me that she will hate your guts for a few but when its all said and done she will realize you were only protecting your family.
> 
> The last time I replied this much was when this guy had a party girl for a W and the tough love thing wasn't working out so well so he got a PI and when his chick saw the evidence and had no choice but to admit her affair, she made the right choice and went back to working on the marriage.
> 
> I won't tell you to stay strong, you sound strong enough, I'll just say don't give up on yourself or your family.


I will never ignore what you write to me because you say it with your heart. Just the fact that you take the time to write is important to me and I commend you for that. I feel so much stronger today knowing that I have people like you to help me thru some difficult times. Again, Thank you


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> T i think boys are has thought to be repectful of women, which is certainly what should be. But they are not told how to be respectful and be a "man" in a relationship at the same time. In the past, i think fathers spoke their son's about reponsibilty and instilled in them the second level of respect, how to manage their their family as a leader so that they can take care of the responsibilties of the family. Somehow this second tier of male behavior advice has been dropped in our culture. I don't want to blame feminism per say but, the concepts may have been distorted such that men may feel guilty in asserting any authority in a relationship.
> 
> However, I think that can be overcome by fathers talking to their sons about what it takes for a successful long-term relationship and explaining what may happen if they don't balance good with assertiveness. In addition young men should start the way they mean to go, speak with a potential partner about what kind of relationship they desire and consider it a deal breaker if the women does not want the same thing. When they get married they sould be prepared to meet the challenges of the relationship. This is for good men who are committed and responsible not weak irresponsible men who could not lead a parade of clowns.
> 
> I may have it wrong because I am naturally sibmissive in my home and could not have had a relationship with a too nice guy. I probably would have felt so unsafe that I would have gone into career mode and bossed him around to manage the family. I would be unhappy in a situation like that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well put Cat,
My father taught me well. I am a man that stands tall, and has control to take care of any issues that come up in my home. She knows that, and she is aware that I am strong and that I have always been there to make sure that we are safe. I tackle everything right away and fix it. I have always shown her that I am in control and would do anything to make things right. I have always made her feal safe in our marriage especially emmotionally and sexually.


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## peace

turnera said:


> My take is, we aren't 'hard' enough in our dealings with people. We are conditioned to shut up, accept things we don't want to, and fear to make waves. What happens then is that people who need a stronger partner (like your wife) start losing respect for you, even hating you, for not being strong enough. And look what she gravitated to: a strong partner.
> 
> She NEEDS you to stand up for your marriage - in a LOVING way.




Turnera,
I will stand up. I have been trying to cope with the issues to safe a marriage from a divorce. That is why I came on here tro vent and get such great advice from you and others alike. I am not one to let things get away without a fight and that is why I needed all the advice on here to get me on track. I have always been a leader since grade school and thru my career and this is just one other big test in my life. Thank you so much for your input always.


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## the guy

Well my friend the weekend is getting close and closer. Has she asked...or shall I say has she told about her plans with the TF?


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## peace

the guy said:


> Well my friend the weekend is getting close and closer. Has she asked...or shall I say has she told about her plans with the TF?


Guy,
She has not brought up anything about any plans for the weekend so far. I hope she reflects and sees that the beast is waiting for her departure. I will be waiting calm and patient, I will be assertive but yet firm. She will get the speech of a lifetime I have it written down already and have read it over and over so that I wont have to use a telepromter. Check your private message in a few minutes.


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## the guy

I hope she does deside to cancel her weekend, and I hope she see her TF as a vampire and I pray that she has not fallen for someone else while out with TF. 

Have you thought about looking into the possobilty of her starting an affair. Have you looked into her facebook, emails, cell phone, 

Even if she stays home you still have alot of work cut out in ending any bad influences that are effecting you marriage. Remember you may even be one of them so don't foget to look at your self and see what you can do better and what kind of reward your wife will recieve if she does stay home this weekend.


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## turnera

That's a good point. It's a safe bet that her friend is helping her find a 'better' man. Check her phone records, and her computer, to see if anyone new is contacting her.


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## peace

turnera said:


> That's a good point. It's a safe bet that her friend is helping her find a 'better' man. Check her phone records, and her computer, to see if anyone new is contacting her.


We both have company phones so we don't have access to track each other. Facebook is clean, no harm there. She told me tonight that we had a birthday party to go to on Saturday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

P, 
I take it the weekend is off and the both of you will be going to the b-day party, or is TF still involved?


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## peace

the guy said:


> P,
> I take it the weekend is off and the both of you will be going to the b-day party, or is TF still involved?


Guy, it has been quite at home this week. I have not seen or heard her on the phone, not even texting. She might have an Angel telling her that their will be consequences if she decides to keep making wrong choices. I will say this though, it is tough beeing in the house thinking about this situation. It is stressfull especially when we have a child that notices any change.


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## 8yearscheating

ARe you going to the party and if not, why not?


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## peace

8yearscheating said:


> ARe you going to the party and if not, why not?


Yes I am going to the party.


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## peace

It is very hard to deal with a spouse who does not communicate well. Therefore, it has been very difficult for me to get answers and concerns from my wife. She admits that I am not the one at fault, but does not know the reason for her actions. I asked that in order for us to have peace in out home we need to come clean and let the bugs out. I asked her that we need to see a MC together and and she says that a MC is not for her. 

So with that said, it is very difficult after 10 years with someone to shut down and not be honest with their partner. This has made me very hurt inside because I can`t get straight answers from her. I feel as if the walls at home are caving in on me for no reason. How can I approach a person who does not like to be put against the wall. I have tried to be assertive in every way possible and I never antoganize her either. However, I am loosing my mind not knowing the truth of her behavier. 

If she knows that she is the one with the problem and does not tell me more than I need to know. Then why live erveryday knowing you are damaging your marriage by not being honest. I am going to go back into my cave until she decides to to be honest with me and tell me what she wants. I have been very patient and at the same time hurt by all the drama. It is so hard to know that you are being lied to over something because of her not being honest.


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## turnera

Why don't you send her what you just wrote?


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## SHARKY

peace said:


> It is very hard to deal with a spouse who does not communicate well. Therefore, it has been very difficult for me to get answers and concerns from my wife. She admits that I am not the one at fault, but does not know the reason for her actions. I asked that in order for us to have peace in out home we need to come clean and let the bugs out. I asked her that we need to see a MC together and and she says that a MC is not for her.
> 
> So with that said, it is very difficult after 10 years with someone to shut down and not be honest with their partner. This has made me very hurt inside because I can`t get straight answers from her. I feel as if the walls at home are caving in on me for no reason. How can I approach a person who does not like to be put against the wall. I have tried to be assertive in every way possible and I never antoganize her either. However, I am loosing my mind not knowing the truth of her behavier.
> 
> If she knows that she is the one with the problem and does not tell me more than I need to know. Then why live erveryday knowing you are damaging your marriage by not being honest. I am going to go back into my cave until she decides to to be honest with me and tell me what she wants. I have been very patient and at the same time hurt by all the drama. It is so hard to know that you are being lied to over something because of her not being honest.



Peace, I hear you! I know what you are going through my friend. This is something that women and men alike do in a relationship and think that by staying quit and ignoring the problem that the other person will not be affected. The real problem is it could be too late by the time she sees the true colors. I hope she realizes this before it too late because you seem to be a family person who wants nothing better than a happy family.


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## michzz

peace said:


> I asked that in order for us to have peace in out home we need to come clean and let the bugs out. I asked her that we need to see a MC together and and she says that a MC is not for her.


In a nutshell: she does not respect you or want to be honest with you. A marriage counselor would root out the truth with you.

You should not have asked her permission to do this. Line in sand moment.

Insist!

And if she refuses? Out the door with her.


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## turnera

Yep.


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## SHARKY

If she is not honest with him , she will not be honest in the meeting.
She will and is probably regreting everything, she has issues that are that are not fair to you and your daughter. She better wake up and get her act together while she is still with you.


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## peace

SHARKY said:


> If she is not honest with him , she will not be honest in the meeting.
> She will and is probably regreting everything, she has issues that are that are not fair to you and your daughter. She better wake up and get her act together while she is still with you.


I will not bring up anything else related to her unless its to end this marriage. The ball has been in her court for two month now and I am not going to keep giving in to her faults. She has to grow up and see that I have been here trying to keep the spirits up in our home. I will continue to be kind and not allow her to provoke me. This weekend will be the real test being Valentines weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dedicated2Her

The fact that she will not open herself up and attend MC says a ton. You have your work cut out for you---peace.


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## peace

Dedicated2Her said:


> The fact that she will not open herself up and attend MC says a ton. You have your work cut out for you---peace.


She is going to want to see everything the day I have to tell her its over. Its a shame that it will come to that. However, I thru it out there for to chew and decided to go south with it. By then it will probably be too late because I have done step by step tp fix something I did not damage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK

For gods sake encourage her to go out one last time. Have the PI ready. You will be viewed as a sniveling fool who couldn't handle a little freedom for his wife if you don't. ONE NIGHT and a PI will be worth EVERY PENNY of the few hundred dollars you pay him. GUARANTEED!! You'll save that a hundred times over in the divorce proceedings.


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## peace

MrK said:


> For gods sake encourage her to go out one last time. Have the PI ready. You will be viewed as a sniveling fool who couldn't handle a little freedom for his wife if you don't. ONE NIGHT and a PI will be worth EVERY PENNY of the few hundred dollars you pay him. GUARANTEED!! You'll save that a hundred times over in the divorce proceedings.


I already have someone contacted and given all her information, it is one phone call away.


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## sinnister

I know this is a sad situation but I'm glad you're gathering evidence to set yourself up to at least come away with self respect if it comes to a divorce.


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## peace

This week has been very quite, no signs of her toxic friend. We have disconnected totally now with communication. I do not call her during work or text her, she will only text me to tell me that my inlaw has picked up our daughter from school. The lack of communication with her is terrible and I have tried to make her talk and rebound. I need to set my boundaries because I am fealing kind of stressed out with this whole thing. I do not know where this will end but for now it looks like she has issues besides her toxic friend. 

Maybe the fact that she has stayed home for the past three weeks and not making any excuses to go out has her in pins and needles. I think she is afraid to go out again knowing that their will consequences to follow. In all my life I never thought that this would be happening to me. I have given my heart and soul to my marriage and family without any hesitation. The idea of seperation or divorce scares me just because of my daughter right now.


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## turnera

Divorce isn't the end of the world. Half of all marriages end in divorce, and single parents are extremely common. And kids adapt. As long as one of you isn't dysfunctional, the kids will be ok.

So put that aside for now. 

She's trying to bully you into backing down. If you let this happen, you WILL end up divorced. Just wait her out. Focus on fixing yourself. Print out the LB and EN questionnaires at MB and ask her to fill them out. Tell her she'll enjoy telling you what you do wrong, lol. Then LEARN what she's unhappy about (LBs and missed ENs), and focus the next couple months on fixing YOUR side of the marriage.


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## the guy

I think you need to ask her out for a date before someone else does.
I mean she has stayed home so I think its time to throw her a bone and hand a peace offering. 
She may refuse she may not. Deffinetly offer her the things turnera suggested. 
I think your right about the pins and neddles thing. She may be in withdrawls, so approach her, ask her out, and see what happens.
If she turns you down then leave it alone, walk away knowing that you tried and don't let it get you down. 
Take the kids out in stead, I bet when she hears about that she'll get on board real quick, that comes from my experience.
Do you think there is another man that may be influenceing her even though the TGF has drifted away a bit?
If there is someone that she has connected with it could be a big wall that keeps her from reconnecting with you. It sound like she may have taken it deep underground, IDK.
I'd quitely look into that posability.


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## peace

the guy said:


> I think you need to ask her out for a date before someone else does.
> I mean she has stayed home so I think its time to throw her a bone and hand a peace offering.
> She may refuse she may not. Deffinetly offer her the things turnera suggested.
> I think your right about the pins and neddles thing. She may be in withdrawls, so approach her, ask her out, and see what happens.
> If she turns you down then leave it alone, walk away knowing that you tried and don't let it get you down.
> Take the kids out in stead, I bet when she hears about that she'll get on board real quick, that comes from my experience.
> Do you think there is another man that may be influenceing her even though the TGF has drifted away a bit?
> If there is someone that she has connected with it could be a big wall that keeps her from reconnecting with you. It sound like she may have taken it deep underground, IDK.
> I'd quitely look into that posability.


Guy I asked her dinner and a movie for Saturday and she said yes. How do I go about it now I feel weird! Incredible how weird I feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Treat her like you treated her when you were dating.


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## peace

turnera said:


> Treat her like you treated her when you were dating.


I will, I am going to act as if nothing has happened. I just hope that I don't get burned for this later. I hope this is the start of something positive and not a let's pretend we are happy. I will say this I am going to feel weird holding her hand again. What type of conversations should I engage in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020

Peace,
Shared positive experiences are powerful. They strengthen the bond between you. So - conversation and activity should follow that theme. If I ever got to a place where things were a bit strained with my W I would do some "activity" with her where we could talk. Walk the dogs, go to this outdoor shopping complex near us with all these fountains. That way we can do the "light banter" people watch - but silences aren't awkward because you are walking/watching/shopping etc.

YOU do NOT talk about the relationship - about her friend or anything difficult or controversial. If she brings something up like "I am not going to see my friend as much as I know you don't like her" you can just say "Thank you for putting our marriage first". Thats it. No long response. No big discussion. No anger. No fear. Just a simple thanks. At the end of a good/great experience - with her - give her a hug and a smile and something light like "that was fun" and thats it. 

If she wants to talk about how she feels - let her. Listen. You can ask some questions if they will help you understand. On your side - stay away from negative talk about the past. Keep it really short and positive. You can say you are glad things are moving in a good direction. 

Show no doubt about her intentions. Do not question her motives. Worst case she is pretending. Possible case - she starts out pretending and things go well and she realizes she really wants to be with you. 



peace said:


> I will, I am going to act as if nothing has happened. I just hope that I don't get burned for this later. I hope this is the start of something positive and not a let's pretend we are happy. I will say this I am going to feel weird holding her hand again. What type of conversations should I engage in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aalina387

since conversation from both sides didnt work.you are the Man of the house at this point tell her she is not welcomed home after 10pm.


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## peace

aalina387 said:


> since conversation from both sides didnt work.you are the Man of the house at this point tell her she is not welcomed home after 10pm.



Aalina,

I will have a heart to heart talk about wanting to stay together or splitup. If the choice is to stay, then we have a lot of catching up to do to help build our marriage where we both feel more connected to each other. This heart to heart is only if things fall back to square one after our date.


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## peace

MEM11363 said:


> Peace,
> Shared positive experiences are powerful. They strengthen the bond between you. So - conversation and activity should follow that theme. If I ever got to a place where things were a bit strained with my W I would do some "activity" with her where we could talk. Walk the dogs, go to this outdoor shopping complex near us with all these fountains. That way we can do the "light banter" people watch - but silences aren't awkward because you are walking/watching/shopping etc.
> 
> YOU do NOT talk about the relationship - about her friend or anything difficult or controversial. If she brings something up like "I am not going to see my friend as much as I know you don't like her" you can just say "Thank you for putting our marriage first". Thats it. No long response. No big discussion. No anger. No fear. Just a simple thanks. At the end of a good/great experience - with her - give her a hug and a smile and something light like "that was fun" and thats it.
> 
> If she wants to talk about how she feels - let her. Listen. You can ask some questions if they will help you understand. On your side - stay away from negative talk about the past. Keep it really short and positive. You can say you are glad things are moving in a good direction.
> 
> Show no doubt about her intentions. Do not question her motives. Worst case she is pretending. Possible case - she starts out pretending and things go well and she realizes she really wants to be with you.


MEM,

I will do all the above, I will not bring up anything related to the past. I will not ruin the date with such poor taste, I want to reunite. I will hold her hand look into her eyes and see her reactions toards me. Is their a point where I should say through it all I love you, or just leave I love you out completely. Man this is hard for me, I had set my boundaries and now I have to ease up and try to see if she communicates with me. What will she be wanting from me, after nine years it of mariiage I feel like I dont even know her.


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## MEM2020

You do not say "ILY" until she says it. I don't care if it takes a full year. And if you ever say "through it all I love you" you are basically telling her she gets to do whatever she wants to you - and you will "take it". So NEVER say "through it all I loved you". 

You don't talk about YOUR feelings. YOUR desire to stay together. Love. Jealousy. Nothing. You just be calm, cool and playful. Fun to be with. If she isn't coming on to you hard within a month I will be surprised. And likely if it reaches that point you should start to move on. 





peace said:


> MEM,
> 
> I will do all the above, I will not bring up anything related to the past. I will not ruin the date with such poor taste, I want to reunite. I will hold her hand look into her eyes and see her reactions toards me. Is their a point where I should say through it all I love you, or just leave I love you out completely. Man this is hard for me, I had set my boundaries and now I have to ease up and try to see if she communicates with me. What will she be wanting from me, after nine years it of mariiage I feel like I dont even know her.


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## the guy

You can do it, Stay in control, no matter how much you want to say something snide or sarcastic do not let it out.
You are heading in the right direction, stay focused and after nine years there are some great memories, in addition bring up the fact that you are looking for a bright future with her.

Just stay positive with your conversation no matter if its about a awsome vacation you took so many years ago, or what it will be like to retire with her and even mention watching the kid grow up and things of that nature. Really any thing that will shine a light on happier times. 

Don't be affraid to thank her for the date and acknowledge the things you are thankful for. If you do love her tell her. Show her all the reasons why she married you, Date night is not the time to think about if your going to get bit in the ass for dating your wife, it's just a date enjoy it.

Don't forget the compliments.... her shoes , hair, and even her scent.


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## MEM2020

Sorry - have to disagree with most of this. 

Do NOT say ILY - unless she says it first. Huge mistake for you to be "chasing" her that way at this point. 

As for compliments - a quick - "you look nice" is enough. Do NOT give her lots of compliments. The reason she is treating you badly is you are being too nice. Stop it. 




the guy said:


> You can do it, Stay in control, no matter how much you want to say something snide or sarcastic do not let it out.
> You are heading in the right direction, stay focused and after nine years there are some great memories, in addition bring up the fact that you are looking for a bright future with her.
> 
> Just stay positive with your conversation no matter if its about a awsome vacation you took so many years ago, or what it will be like to retire with her and even mention watching the kid grow up and things of that nature. Really any thing that will shine a light on happier times.
> 
> Don't be affraid to thank her for the date and acknowledge the things you are thankful for. If you do love her tell her. Show her all the reasons why she married you, Date night is not the time to think about if your going to get bit in the ass for dating your wife, it's just a date enjoy it.
> 
> Don't forget the compliments.... her shoes , hair, and even her scent.


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## peace

MEM11363 said:


> Sorry - have to disagree with most of this.
> 
> Do NOT say ILY - unless she says it first. Huge mistake for you to be "chasing" her that way at this point.
> 
> As for compliments - a quick - "you look nice" is enough. Do NOT give her lots of compliments. The reason she is treating you badly is you are being too nice. Stop it.


She has treated me badly, she checked out and now I am the one that asked her out. Today, I called her to ask her a simple question and the way she answers the phone is as if I was a stranger. I wonder if asking her out was the right thing to do, I don`t want to show her that I am needy. I love her, however, I can not fall into a trap again. I do not want to get mixed emotions from her again this will only make me upset and end all communication for good.


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## peace

the guy said:


> You can do it, Stay in control, no matter how much you want to say something snide or sarcastic do not let it out.
> You are heading in the right direction, stay focused and after nine years there are some great memories, in addition bring up the fact that you are looking for a bright future with her.
> 
> Just stay positive with your conversation no matter if its about a awsome vacation you took so many years ago, or what it will be like to retire with her and even mention watching the kid grow up and things of that nature. Really any thing that will shine a light on happier times.
> 
> Don't be affraid to thank her for the date and acknowledge the things you are thankful for. If you do love her tell her. Show her all the reasons why she married you, Date night is not the time to think about if your going to get bit in the ass for dating your wife, it's just a date enjoy it.
> 
> Don't forget the compliments.... her shoes , hair, and even her scent.


Hi Guy,
Thank you as usual, I have to be careful in the way I approach everything here.


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## the guy

MEM has some valide points, but its just a date, one night to go out and enjoy each other company.
I quess its a balance peace has to make.

I mean if my DS was still contacting OM I would whole heartedly agree, but since my W has come back and it is confirmed through my own investigation that my W is commited to the marriage, I have to recipricate her commitment with some plesent behavior on my part.
I think its kind of wierd to put up a wall that will prevent the both of you from having an enjoyable time, its just a date!


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## MEM2020

The Guy,
There is no wall. If she wants to say ILY she can. He can say it back. And you said the magic word below "reciprocate". When she is nice - he is nice back. But the more he initiates the less respect she has for him. Simple - brutal truth of this dynamic he is in. 

I agree when things are "healthy" it doesn't need to work this way. But he/she are far from healthy. 




the guy said:


> MEM has some valide points, but its just a date, one night to go out and enjoy each other company.
> I quess its a balance peace has to make.
> 
> I mean if my DS was still contacting OM I would whole heartedly agree, but since my W has come back and it is confirmed through my own investigation that my W is commited to the marriage, I have to recipricate her commitment with some plesent behavior on my part.
> I think its kind of wierd to put up a wall that will prevent the both of you from having an enjoyable time, its just a date!


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## MEM2020

Send her a text and cancel the date. Tell her this isn't a good time for a date. And then STOP reaching out to her completely. Going on a date with someone who is totally cold to you is a very bad idea. It will end badly. 




peace said:


> She has treated me badly, she checked out and now I am the one that asked her out. Today, I called her to ask her a simple question and the way she answers the phone is as if I was a stranger. I wonder if asking her out was the right thing to do, I don`t want to show her that I am needy. I love her, however, I can not fall into a trap again. I do not want to get mixed emotions from her again this will only make me upset and end all communication for good.


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## peace

MEM11363 said:


> Send her a text and cancel the date. Tell her this isn't a good time for a date. And then STOP reaching out to her completely. Going on a date with someone who is totally cold to you is a very bad idea. It will end badly.


Agree! I wont text her though, I stay away form texting things that need to be said in person. This will set back everything again. However, it is not a healthy relationship right now. God is watching over me, I know it! I have been the best I can be always as a husband and father and I am mad now. Enough is enough!


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## turnera

Just start being honest. Don't cancel the date. Go out as if you are new to each other. Act as though you aren't married, ask her about herself, what her dreams are, if she's accomplished them...show her you can be who she wants, but also show her that you can also live without her if she's not going to be interested.


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## Powerbane

:iagree:

I agree with Turnera.

Start being honest. 

Go on the date. Be causal. I know it's hard - it feels awkward. 

I felt that way when I reconnected with my wife too. 

After a while the awkwardness goes away.


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## peace

Thank you for all the support! I am emmotioanally drained right now, I carry my heart on my shoulders and it is killing me. I was doing great until now. I am loosing my mind over this marriage that I have worked so hard for to keep it going. As an ahtelete I have always been very competitive and for some reason I have let myself down on this one. I need to bounce back and amke myself strong for my daughters sake. Just got back from lunch and did not eat anything. I need to get myself ready for a triathlon in two month and I have no strength to continue my workout routines.


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## HowardDuck

Peace, I have been following your thread and it is the reason I found this site in the first place (toxic friend causing divorce). 

I am in a similar situation, but further advanced than yours. You can read through my situation when you're done reading my advice.

I can say you are at a point in your frustration that I wish I could turn back time to and do something to head off the train wreck that is happening to me right now.

My wife sent up flares over the last few months, that I allowed to fizzle into the cold snow outside.... Had I listened and paid attention to the seriousness of those "flares" I would have recognized that her going out with this toxic friend was taking away precious time that we could have spent TOGETHER instead. I should never have let her go out so many times without me.

I have been married 11 years and have allowed myself to assume that everything was "ok" when in fact it was anything BUT ok. 

Now I have a hole to dig out of, but I have the luxury of a week away from her to think about everything....from what to do when she gets home, to making damn sure this never happens again!

Take your wife on the date! Be honest with her. Let her know how much you miss being with her and you want to be the one she thinks of going out with on weekends! With the TF out of the picture, she is longing for someone (you) to raise her spirits and show her a good time!

Good luck peace. I'm rooting for you!


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## peace

HowardDuck said:


> Peace, I have been following your thread and it is the reason I found this site in the first place (toxic friend causing divorce).
> 
> I am in a similar situation, but further advanced than yours. You can read through my situation when you're done reading my advice.
> 
> I can say you are at a point in your frustration that I wish I could turn back time to and do something to head off the train wreck that is happening to me right now.
> 
> My wife sent up flares over the last few months, that I allowed to fizzle into the cold snow outside.... Had I listened and paid attention to the seriousness of those "flares" I would have recognized that her going out with this toxic friend was taking away precious time that we could have spent TOGETHER instead. I should never have let her go out so many times without me.
> 
> I have been married 11 years and have allowed myself to assume that everything was "ok" when in fact it was anything BUT ok.
> 
> Now I have a hole to dig out of, but I have the luxury of a week away from her to think about everything....from what to do when she gets home, to making damn sure this never happens again!
> 
> Take your wife on the date! Be honest with her. Let her know how much you miss being with her and you want to be the one she thinks of going out with on weekends! With the TF out of the picture, she is longing for someone (you) to raise her spirits and show her a good time!
> 
> Good luck peace. I'm rooting for you!


Thank you so much for the kind words, it is a hard battle. I am trying my very best to continue on with the date. If she was person that can carry and adult conversation this would have been resolved a long time ago. Again thank you and good luck to you too..


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## peace

peace said:


> Thank you so much for the kind words, it is a hard battle. I am trying my very best to continue on with the date. If she was person that can carry and adult conversation this would have been resolved a long time ago. Again thank you and good luck to you too..


Well I just asked her if we were going out in our date and she said no. So o went ahead and told just about everything oi needed to say about whayt has been happening. She acted as if she has checked out but would not admit it. This marriaghe has no hope and repair. I will see an attorney next week and proceed whayt needs to be done. I do not want to leave the house though what do I do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Powerbane

Don't leave the house. Pure and simple. You can still save this if you want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Powerbane said:


> Don't leave the house. Pure and simple. You can still save this if you want to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not leaving the house that is for sure. I am not at fault for anything, if she is the one with issue. I told her that the only way to safe this marriage is a MC. She refuses to go and so now I will go back to setting my boundaries. I deserve better in my life and she is really going to get a rude awaking. I am so pissed off right now, I'm here having dinner by myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Powerbane

Next time she goes out - either go with her or go start packing her bags and Leave them at the door. 

Actually. That's bad advice. 

If you have not been to Marriage Builders - get over there and learn learn learn. 

The forums have a lot of vets that wield some heavy 2 x 4's too. 

The biggest thing is to not give up on yourself or her. Not at this stage anyway. 

Get yourself educated on next steps and then work your plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

peace said:


> I am not leaving the house that is for sure. I am not at fault for anything, if she is the one with issue. I told her that the only way to safe this marriage is a MC. She refuses to go and so now I will go back to setting my boundaries. I deserve better in my life and she is really going to get a rude awaking. I am so pissed off right now, I'm here having dinner by myself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In my opinion, what ever you do, don't leave your house. Why should you be punished, you didn't do anything. Separate in house. You can cary on as if you were not together. Get your own room move your stuff, stop all interaction with her except where it comes to your child. 

Don't fight, don't be baited into conflict just agree with her it useless to engage in conflict get you nowhere, be very nice and calm, completely disengage. It will be difficult but this is a break and a chance for you to begin to heal. You will not be subjected to slow torture any more. Hang it there, you are doing the right thing. 

Go to lawyer, Make sure to secure finances any evidence etc. Make agreement when you will have your child on your own with no wiffy.


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> In my opinion, what ever you do, don't leave your house. Why should you be punished, you didn't do anything. Separate in house. You can cary on as if you were not together. Get your own room move your stuff, stop all interaction with her except where it comes to your child.
> 
> Don't fight, don't be baited into conflict just agree with her it useless to engage in conflict get you nowhere, be very nice and calm, completely disengage. It will be difficult but this is a break and a chance for you to begin to heal. You will not be subjected to slow torture any more. Hang it there, you are doing the right thing.
> 
> Go to lawyer, Make sure to secure finances any evidence etc. Make agreement when you will have your child on your own with no wiffy.


Thank you again so much. I will not give up what I built with my sweat and years .She has not gotten out anymore but she has issues that keep her from making this marriage to where it was. I don't know her anymore and I stay in our bedroom she needs to find another room in the house. I have lost a lot of sleep over this and I have given up. I do not want to continue with someone that can not come clean. I consider myself handsome and very clean and deserve better. I just finished having dinner and I am taking the time to respond to you great people. I just need strength to keep myself sane.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Offer to help her pack her bags.


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## peace

turnera said:


> Offer to help her pack her bags.


That will be the next step to tell her its over and to pack her bags. What happens with my daughter will the fight. I don't even want to even think about it now. I have every right to stay in my house being the man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HowardDuck

Peace - we have some parallels as far as lack of communication with our significant others. I can see exactly where you are coming from. 

Try this one on for size:

I'm not sure what your home looks like inside or if there are any pictures on the walls of your family but I have an idea that may help....

Valentines Day is Monday. Why not go through your wedding album and pull out all the pictures you can find of you and her together that day. From the pre-wedding through the wedding (I especially like the shots of placing rings on each others fingers) and the post wedding celebrations.... Then dig out some pictures of your daughter's birth. From the ultrasounds to the last "pregnant beyond belief" shot of your wife to the hospital room, to the first pictures of your daughter in your arms, and in your wife's. Go to your local florist tomorrow and buy a dozen roses. Hit Hallmark for the most meaningful V-Day card you've ever purchased (not a sappy been-though-hard-times one, pick a positive one with a promise of a future together). Get the big Mylar balloon filled with helium too. Heart shaped with "I Love You" on it.

Place all these things on your freshly-cleaned off kitchen table. Place the pictures in order around the flowers, kind of a recap of your life together thus far. Tell her you love her and you miss the closeness you once had. You can handle it from there....

I've been reading almost non-stop on marriage builders and the single most important article (to me) was this one: The Most Important Emotional Needs

And there they are spot-on with the "Love Bank" approach which you can read here: The Love Bank

Don't give up just yet. Educate yourself. Once you've educated yourself, you stand a far better chance of reaching her... Let her know you are here seeking help. Invite her in. Can't hurt!


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## peace

HowardDuck said:


> Peace - we have some parallels as far as lack of communication with our significant others. I can see exactly where you are coming from.
> 
> Try this one on for size:
> 
> I'm not sure what your home looks like inside or if there are any pictures on the walls of your family but I have an idea that may help....
> 
> Valentines Day is Monday. Why not go through your wedding album and pull out all the pictures you can find of you and her together that day. From the pre-wedding through the wedding (I especially like the shots of placing rings on each others fingers) and the post wedding celebrations.... Then dig out some pictures of your daughter's birth. From the ultrasounds to the last "pregnant beyond belief" shot of your wife to the hospital room, to the first pictures of your daughter in your arms, and in your wife's. Go to your local florist tomorrow and buy a dozen roses. Hit Hallmark for the most meaningful V-Day card you've ever purchased (not a sappy been-though-hard-times one, pick a positive one with a promise of a future together). Get the big Mylar balloon filled with helium too. Heart shaped with "I Love You" on it.
> 
> Place all these things on your freshly-cleaned off kitchen table. Place the pictures in order around the flowers, kind of a recap of your life together thus far. Tell her you love her and you miss the closeness you once had. You can handle it from there....
> 
> I've been reading almost non-stop on marriage builders and the single most important article (to me) was this one: The Most Important Emotional Needs
> 
> And there they are spot-on with the "Love Bank" approach which you can read here: The Love Bank
> 
> Don't give up just yet. Educate yourself. Once you've educated yourself, you stand a far better chance of reaching her... Let her know you are here seeking help. Invite her in. Can't hurt!


I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write all this. I did this once and it got me no where. It is over between her and I and it is time for to start my healing process. I just want to be happy and it won't be with her. She will realise this once we are over. I have been a true husband and father and I do not have any regrets other than waisting ten years of my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HowardDuck

Bummer.

Even through every step of a divorce, there is always the STOP button... So even though you are fed up, down and out right now doesn't mean it's completely over.

It's not over until the judge signs the divorce decree.

Here... Have a beer. It's on me!


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## HowardDuck

Oh and I was gonna say just because it didn't work then doesn't mean it won't work now...

Just sayin'


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## peace

HowardDuck said:


> Oh and I was gonna say just because it didn't work then doesn't mean it won't work now...
> 
> Just sayin'


Thanks for the beer. I am lost and tired of all that has happened I spent to many days and hours thinking about my marriage. I never checked out on my marriage and feel as if I have failed. I will rebound snd move forward, I deserve so much better in life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SHARKY

peace said:


> Thanks for the beer. I am lost and tired of all that has happened I spent to many days and hours thinking about my marriage. I never checked out on my marriage and feel as if I have failed. I will rebound snd move forward, I deserve so much better in life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Peace I have been keeping up with this post. You really have a wife with issues that she can't be honest about. You have been a man with many patience to keep your sanity. Now it is time to worry only about yourself and daughter. You seem to be a person withj many qualities and do not let yuor spouse put you down. Do what is right ignore the hell out of her and kill her with kindness. Forget she even exist! Loose all contact with her she does not deserve you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

I am really sad but at the same time releived. I told her all that I needed to say to her and I told her that this marriage was over because she can not be honest with me and that I did not deserve her abusive mental treatment with me. She was totally shocked but acted as if it didnt sink in. I need to be myself again and worry about my daughter only. This has drained me to the point of no return. What should I do around the house now, the ball is in her court again and what should I avoid and espect from her now. I do not want any confrentation with her. I need my space now more than ever.


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## turnera

What you need to do is do some hard thinking and make a list of what the perfect wife would look like. Then look at that list and see how her actions would affect you; in other words, if your perfect wife admires you, what would that look like in real life? A wife who doesn't make fun of you to friends? 

Put that down on your second list: do not make fun of me to friends.

Keep doing this til you have a second list (numbered), of real actions (or lack of action). This list will be your boundary list. That means that you yourself have a set of 'boundaries,' barriers, lines that should not be crossed. 

To correlate with that list, make a third list of ACTIONS you will take - YOU, not HER - if those llines are crossed. "If my wife makes a joke about me at a party we are at, I will pull her aside and tell her that she has insulted me and I am leaving the party and going home. She can get her own way home."

Those ACTIONS are your true boundaries - the things YOU do if she harms you.

Keep this list near and dear. Share with her if you want, if you think she's open to even caring about you. Hell, even if she's not, she needs to see in writing what she is doing to you. Show her.

Then start 'living' that list. Memorize it. Look for events that cross those lines you have figured out; consult your third list to see what YOU are now supposed to do; and FOLLOW those orders. 

If you continue to do this, you will start to build your own self esteem back up, your self respect. The more you do it, (1) the easier it is to walk away from a woman who disrespects you and (2) the more attractive you'll look to her. 

Sad, but true.

But you need it at this point.


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## peace

Tunera I understand what you are tryting to say. However, I need to be on my own now and worry about getting myself sane again so I can be the better parent. I am not moving out of my home and plan to stay because I did not check out. What I am concerned about is that I do not want her to provoke me in a confrentation. I have said all that I needed to say and she needs to realize that she has to fix her issues and be honest with herself first. 

In order for me to get back into this marriage she needs to make a complete 180 and stick to it. But first we need to see a MC councelor like I told her when I said it was over. I told her that the only way I would be here for you is if we see a MC, she refused and that is when I told her it was over. Reason, she refuses to talk and come clean with me and she has had all the opportunities too. My mother in law and I are very close and she is ashamed of what her daughter has done to this mattiage and wants to tell her but I stopped her from getting involved for now. What do I need to do around the house in order to be myself for now on is what worries me.


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## SHARKY

Peace,
Be yourself and be kind! you will always kill them with that. Join the gym, you seem to be athelitic from what I have read. I guess many others here will chime in as well. I feel for you, men like you do not come around in every corner. God bless you and your daughter.


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## turnera

I didn't tell you to move out. I told you to know what you will accept in her behavior (the confrontations you describe) and have a PLAN for what you will do when she acts out.

She needs to see strength, integrity and consistency from you. Waywards are like dogs; they have to see the consequences of their actions to learn to stop doing them!

Why are you stopping her mother from talking to her? She NEEDS to hear from her mom that she has shamed her.

What do you need to do around the house...that's what I was trying to explain. You decide what you can and can't live with from her, and when she steps over the line (does the harmful act), then YOU act accordingly. If she raises her voice in front of your child, you pick up the child and leave the room; the house; the city, if you have to. She has to see the consequences of her actions.


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## SHARKY

turnera said:


> I didn't tell you to move out. I told you to know what you will accept in her behavior (the confrontations you describe) and have a PLAN for what you will do when she acts out.
> 
> She needs to see strength, integrity and consistency from you. Waywards are like dogs; they have to see the consequences of their actions to learn to stop doing them!
> 
> Why are you stopping her mother from talking to her? She NEEDS to hear from her mom that she has shamed her.
> 
> What do you need to do around the house...that's what I was trying to explain. You decide what you can and can't live with from her, and when she steps over the line (does the harmful act), then YOU act accordingly. If she raises her voice in front of your child, you pick up the child and leave the room; the house; the city, if you have to. She has to see the consequences of her actions.


Yes Peace, be strong and hold your grounds I have learned a lot from this forum.


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## peace

turnera said:


> I didn't tell you to move out. I told you to know what you will accept in her behavior (the confrontations you describe) and have a PLAN for what you will do when she acts out.
> 
> She needs to see strength, integrity and consistency from you. Waywards are like dogs; they have to see the consequences of their actions to learn to stop doing them!
> 
> Why are you stopping her mother from talking to her? She NEEDS to hear from her mom that she has shamed her.
> 
> What do you need to do around the house...that's what I was trying to explain. You decide what you can and can't live with from her, and when she steps over the line (does the harmful act), then YOU act accordingly. If she raises her voice in front of your child, you pick up the child and leave the room; the house; the city, if you have to. She has to see the consequences of her actions.


I get it now Tunera. 
Please be advised that it is taking a little more time than normal for me to read and understand right now. The reason why I do not want my mother in law to talk to her now is because she will know that I have this bond with her and that will make me look like a coward. My mother in law instead is going to tell her that she wants to talk to me in private to ask me what is going in our realtionship. This will be something that comes from the inlaw and not me. This morning she raised her voice to my daughter when she was getting ready for school, she was trying to provoke me and I stayed quite.

I have to be now very careful because she will try to provoke me into an argurement. I will be ready and tell her to be polite or their is no conversation. It will be a very difficult situation living like this but I can`t and wont`t leave. It is as much my home as it is hers and I have put every nickle and sweat into it for me to let it go. If she has checked out why does`nt she leave and live her life like a free bird. She has expected to have me the rock at home and do as she pleases. Well it came to and end and now she is will see the my other side that she has never seen before.


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## turnera

Here's a fun little quiz to find out if you can improve your boundaries:
How Good Are Your Personal Boundaries?- Beliefnet.com

Do look up some material about boundaries and learn. The best book is Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend, that will help you learn to protect yourself and your family from poor treatment or selfishness.


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## Catherine602

peace said:


> I get it now Tunera.
> Please be advised that it is taking a little more time than normal for me to read and understand right now. The reason why I do not want my mother in law to talk to her now is because she will know that I have this bond with her and that will make me look like a coward. My mother in law instead is going to tell her that she wants to talk to me in private to ask me what is going in our realtionship. This will be something that comes from the inlaw and not me. This morning she raised her voice to my daughter when she was getting ready for school, she was trying to provoke me and I stayed quite.
> 
> I have to be now very careful because she will try to provoke me into an argurement. I will be ready and tell her to be polite or their is no conversation. It will be a very difficult situation living like this but I can`t and wont`t leave. It is as much my home as it is hers and I have put every nickle and sweat into it for me to let it go. If she has checked out why does`nt she leave and live her life like a free bird. She has expected to have me the rock at home and do as she pleases. Well it came to and end and now she is will see the my other side that she has never seen before.


Peace it is easy since you are in the house for her to use you as before as a domestic drudge, baby sitter and cook. I am not saying don't help out as an adult sharing a home and parent but hash out an agreement as to exclusive time with your daughter and live as separate of life from your wife as possible. 

She can go out when she does not have primary duties with your daughter. Act as if you have moved out. Write up an agreement as to how and where you will be involved. Try to avoid her in the house. You can even take over a portion of the house which is out of bounds for her. 

Sounds strange but you do not want to make things easy for her to have your as a whipping boy. Fight for your space and time only do it calmly, strongly and consistently.


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> Peace it is easy since you are in the house for her to use you as before as a domestic drudge, baby sitter and cook. I am not saying don't help out as an adult sharing a home and parent but hash out an agreement as to exclusive time with your daughter and live as separate of life from your wife as possible.
> 
> She can go out when she does not have primary duties with your daughter. Act as if you have moved out. Write up an agreement as to how and where you will be involved. Try to avoid her in the house. You can even take over a portion of the house which is out of bounds for her.
> 
> Sounds strange but you do not want to make things easy for her to have your as a whipping boy. Fight for your space and time only do it calmly, strongly and consistently.




Cat thank you for such great advice. My house is big enough for me to have my own space. I just want my space, is it possible that feel hate for right now. I have never felt this before, I have so much anger that I have hate inside of me. I do not even want her to approach or get near me. Thank god for all you people on here. You all have given me so much advice and I am so thankful for that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

SHARKY said:


> Yes Peace, be strong and hold your grounds I have learned a lot from this forum.


She can not force me out of my own house correct. Just because she is a women correct even though she is the one who checked out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Do you have a therapist, a counselor, you can go to? This would be a good time to do so. They will be a BIG help.


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## peace

turnera said:


> Do you have a therapist, a counselor, you can go to? This would be a good time to do so. They will be a BIG help.[/QUOTE
> 
> Tunera,
> I was going to do this today start calling to make an appointment. Who should I go see for therapy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Well, I always recommend looking for a true psychologist. They are much more likely to have gone through more training than anyone else and give you proper advice and help.


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## Catherine602

peace said:


> Cat thank you for such great advice. My house is big enough for me to have my own space. I just want my space, is it possible that feel hate for right now. I have never felt this before, I have so much anger that I have hate inside of me. I do not even want her to approach or get near me. Thank god for all you people on here. You all have given me so much advice and I am so thankful for that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't be disappointed in yourself for feeling hate. If you were indifference it would mean your did not care. You have a good heart so of course your emotions and strong. 

I am glad you can get your own space. Do you like music? what type? We juts got an Altec 775 speaker for the iPod, its on Amazon for $118. It makes an amazing sound for so small a speaker. Sometimes my husband and I just crank it up and listen to Jazz or Opera a favorite of ours. It really makes you float and calms the soul, depending on the music. Don't do Eminem.


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## Conrad

Peace,

She can force you out if she lies to the police/judge, etc.


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## peace

turnera said:


> Well, I always recommend looking for a true psychologist. They are much more likely to have gone through more training than anyone else and give you proper advice and help.


A Psychologist is what I have in mind. I just found two with high regards. I will call both and see who can schedule me first. Who should I pick a man or women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> Don't be disappointed in yourself for feeling hate. If you were indifference it would mean your did not care. You have a good heart so of course your emotions and strong.
> 
> I am glad you can get your own space. Do you like music? what type? We juts got an Altec 775 speaker for the iPod, its on Amazon for $118. It makes an amazing sound for so small a speaker. Sometimes my husband and I just crank it up and listen to Jazz or Opera a favorite of ours. It really makes you float and calms the soul, depending on the music. Don't do Eminem.


Cat of course I love music. No Eminem for sure. Lol, I just need all the support from you all. I trust you guys more than anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Conrad said:


> Peace,
> 
> She can force you out if she lies to the police/judge, etc.


That is why I have such a great bond with her mom. She is aware of everything that has been going on. She even told me today to tell her daughter to move out. She is ashamed to have a daughter that has turned against her husband and daughter. I have a brother who is a big time lawyer and I will open up to him as well. I did not want my family to know about my drama just yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Here is the what she is doing today. She has text me four times to ask me if I was going to my weekly Softball game today, then she asked me at what time was the game, finally she asked me if I was going home first before going to the game. I answered back saying yes I have a game and NO I am not going home first. What is she trying to do to me! Is she fishing to see what I am doing or trying to get a responce from me.


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## turnera

Sounds to me like she has a guy coming over, and she wants to make sure you're going to be gone.


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## turnera

If I were you, I'd cancel the game and show up unannounced, about half an hour after your game is supposed to start.


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## peace

turnera said:


> If I were you, I'd cancel the game and show up unannounced, about half an hour after your game is supposed to start.


No she has my daughter with her. She can`t take the fact that I am ignoring her. She is use to me coming home before going to any outing first. She has been texting me all day to see if she gets my replies. She needs to grow up and face reality, she is denial right now and I will not give in unless we see a MC together.


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## Catherine602

peace said:


> No she has my daughter with her. She can`t take the fact that I am ignoring her. She is use to me coming home before going to any outing first. She has been texting me all day to see if she gets my replies. She needs to grow up and face reality, she is denial right now and I will not give in unless we see a MC together.


Would you consider a no contact clause in your informal separation agreement except if it has to do with your daughter. She should not need to know where your are, you are separated- in-house. 

Can you make an agreement as to childcare duties, chores in the shared domicile and that's it?. You agree to stay out of each others way. If you need to write it out than do so even if its notes to yourself that your tell her verbally.

She is trying to have her normal life while not doing anything for you. Careful don't let it happen. Remember the fable "Brer Rabbit and the ********" - you start getting tangled up with her and you'll get stuck fast.


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> Would you consider a no contact clause in your informal separation agreement except if it has to do with your daughter. She should not need to know where your are, you are separated- in-house.
> 
> Can you make an agreement as to childcare duties, chores in the shared domicile and that's it?. You agree to stay out of each others way. If you need to write it out than do so even if its notes to yourself that your tell her verbally.
> 
> She is trying to have her normal life while not doing anything for you. Careful don't let it happen. Remember the fable "Brer Rabbit and the ********" - you start getting tangled up with her and you'll get stuck fast.


I told her to not contact me unless it has to do with our daughter. She is in denial from what I told her, it has not hit her yet. I will not fall in a trap again. I need to be strong so I can function everyday. I hope I can stay on top of my game to be able to make the right decisions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SHARKY

You need to stay calm and at ease. I am in the same boat you are in my friend. Focus on your daughter and yourself, your wife will realize that she had a home a loving husband and a beautiful daughter and one day it all went away. Sometimes, it takes action for people to wake up and see how good they had it, some take advantage of the fact that people like you have family values and divorce is not an option. From what I have read in this thread, I`m sure that you do not come from a broken home, if you do then you did all you could to prevent this from happening. Good luck and stay with your boundaries, it is the only respect you will ever achieve.


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## peace

SHARKY said:


> You need to stay calm and at ease. I am in the same boat you are in my friend. Focus on your daughter and yourself, your wife will realize that she had a home a loving husband and a beautiful daughter and one day it all went away. Sometimes, it takes action for people to wake up and see how good they had it, some take advantage of the fact that people like you have family values and divorce is not an option. From what I have read in this thread, I`m sure that you do not come from a broken home, if you do then you did all you could to prevent this from happening. Good luck and stay with your boundaries, it is the only respect you will ever achieve.




Thank you very much for your advice and I am sorry that you are going thru much of the same. It is very difficult to cope with this situation, I will try my best to stay focus.


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## peace

I am seeing a Psychologist for the first time in my life this coming Tuesday. I am nervous but confidant at the same time. I am seeing a women Psychologist, because I want to see a womens perspective on my issues. What should I espect out of this?


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## turnera

She'll ask you what your problem is, and let you guide the focus of the hour. If you want to get advice on your wife, she'll help you with that. If you worry about depression, she'll offer help with that. If you want to find out why you turned into a guy who lets his wife walk all over him, lol, well, she'll probably have to dig a little deeper into your past and childhood to help you figure it out before she can offer help in that area.


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## peace

turnera said:


> She'll ask you what your problem is, and let you guide the focus of the hour. If you want to get advice on your wife, she'll help you with that. If you worry about depression, she'll offer help with that. If you want to find out why you turned into a guy who lets his wife walk all over him, lol, well, she'll probably have to dig a little deeper into your past and childhood to help you figure it out before she can offer help in that area.


Tunera, lol indeed! However, I have put a stop to it and to her that I was done. I will not make any decisions about my marriage while my head is not thinking correctly. In order for me to move forward I need to have my head straight without any distractions. With that said, it is easier said than done. I need the smoke to clear a little so I can determine my next step. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Today has been a stressful day because she has no leg to stand on and fishing at anything. I am dealing with an in mature brat that thinks that she has done nothing wrong. She has not realized how much damage she has done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK

2 things about the psychologist:

1- If you two don't hit it off pretty quickly, change the psychologist. You'll waste a lot of if you two aren't both firing on all cylinders together.

2 - Don't be afraid if she recommends meds. They help take the edge off so you can concentrate better. And prescription sleeping pills probably saved my life. Definitely my career anyhow.


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## Catherine602

peace said:


> Today has been a stressful day because she has no leg to stand on and fishing at anything. I am dealing with an in mature brat that thinks that she has done nothing wrong. She has not realized how much damage she has done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How would you deal with a 2 year-old? Set boundaries and stick to them. Ignore tantrums. You can't put her in time out but you can absent yourself. I know you want o interact with your child. Can you take her into your part of the house and read with her or look at TV. Set up a routine help her with homework, it has to be in your part of the house,

Can you give more details about what she is doing? maybe someone can give a suggestion. She will up the ante during this period, she is searching for the key to your changes so she can manipulate you. Make sure she does not find this site. She is trying to get back in control so expect it. Be prepared to not engage her. She will run out of steam if you remain calm, stick to your word and protect your boundaries.


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## turnera

The great book The Dance Of Anger talks about "Change Back!" behavior - when you pull your Giving away from a User, they try everything under the sun to make you change back to the way you were - the way they liked it. Just be prepared for it, and you can deflect it with dignity.


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> How would you deal with a 2 year-old? Set boundaries and stick to them. Ignore tantrums. You can't put her in time out but you can absent yourself. I know you want o interact with your child. Can you take her into your part of the house and read with her or look at TV. Set up a routine help her with homework, it has to be in your part of the house,
> 
> Can you give more details about what she is doing? maybe someone can give a suggestion. She will up the ante during this period, she is searching for the key to your changes so she can manipulate you. Make sure she does not find this site. She is trying to get back in control so expect it. Be prepared to not engage her. She will run out of steam if you remain calm, stick to your word and protect your boundaries.


Cat you bring up great points as usual. I do the homework with my daughter and I take her dance classes too. I spend a lot time with her, get her ready in the morning to go to school prepare her lunch and so on. I guess Mr.Mom will fit my roll too. The wife has been trying to provoke me saying that I must have someone else for me making my decision. I put a stop to it by saying, Listen! Their is no third party involved in this marriage, the only problem is here right now you and I. Do not disrespect me accusing me of having someone else. She backed of real quick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

turnera said:


> The great book The Dance Of Anger talks about "Change Back!" behavior - when you pull your Giving away from a User, they try everything under the sun to make you change back to the way you were - the way they liked it. Just be prepared for it, and you can deflect it with dignity.


I may loose some sleep. However, I will not loose my dignity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

peace said:


> Cat you bring up great points as usual. I do the homework with my daughter and I take her dance classes too. I spend a lot time with her, get her ready in the morning to go to school prepare her lunch and so on. I guess Mr.Mom will fit my roll too. The wife has been trying to provoke me saying that I must have someone else for me making my decision. I put a stop to it by saying, Listen! Their is no third party involved in this marriage, the only problem is here right now you and I. Do not disrespect me accusing me of having someone else. She backed of real quick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


. 

What a nerve - total disrespect. Even if you are trying help your the one executing it successfully. She underestimates you and that is in your favor, you can keep her off balance by doing what she thinks you are not capable of. 

My opinion, you gave the perfect answer in response to the cheating thing. You didn't explain your self but said right on point. ) she is looking for an opening you know what to expect from her so don't stress. She done't know what to expect from you. You are doing great.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> .
> 
> What a nerve - total disrespect. Even if you are trying help your the one executing it successfully. She underestimates you and that is in your favor, you can keep her off balance by doing what she thinks you are not capable of.
> 
> My opinion, you gave the perfect answer in response to the cheating thing. You didn't explain your self but said right on point. ) she is looking for an opening you know what to expect from her so don't stress. She done't know what to expect from you. You are doing great.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Cat you are good,you hit it right to point. She is trying for that opening and has failed every time. I do not trust her actions because I can not get her to act like an adult. I am dealing with a brat. She will keep trying to antagonize me and I will be ready. How far will she go before she breaks. I will not bend for any reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have you told her that? That she's acting like a selfish 12 year old?


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## peace

MrK said:


> 2 things about the psychologist:
> 
> 1- If you two don't hit it off pretty quickly, change the psychologist. You'll waste a lot of if you two aren't both firing on all cylinders together.
> 
> 2 - Don't be afraid if she recommends meds. They help take the edge off so you can concentrate better. And prescription sleeping pills probably saved my life. Definitely my career anyhow.


Thanks for the advice. Today I'm having down day, is this normal. I am feeling a little depressed, maybe due to so much at hand. I need to stay strong but I must admit it is taking a toll in me. Even though I maintain busy, I can't take my mind away from all of this. I ask myself why and hit some high points and then reality hits. I have a great support cast in my private life and in this forum to give me strength. Again thank you for all the advice in this thread it has kept me going with great strength. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

It is normal to have wide swings when your facing her betrayal and disloyalty. Strongly suggest a book call NOT "Just Friends" by Glass.


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## turnera

Have you looked into what I suggested earlier about taking a hard look at your marriage, the LBs, the ENs, whether you're pulling an even load...?


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## peace

turnera said:


> Have you looked into what I suggested earlier about taking a hard look at your marriage, the LBs, the ENs, whether you're pulling an even load...?




Hi Tunera,

LBs, ENs
What do they stand for?


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## turnera

A Love Buster is what YOU do that annoys your spouse. My DH's biggest LBs are leaving dirty Q-tips lying around the house, dropping his clothes all over the house, not repairing things around the house that break down, hording stuff all over the house, and being negative all.the.time. See, it could be anything. Whatever she says is an LB that you do, is valid - to HER. If you have her fill out the LB questionnaire from marriagebuilders.com, you will know what YOU do that bothers her, so you can stop them.

If you don't stop the LBs, a LOT of resentment builds up, trust dies, love fades - no matter how hard you try to woo her or make her happy. Gotta stop the LBs first.

Emotional Needs are different for each person. Another questionnaire from MB will tell you what her top 5 ENs are so that you can make sure YOU are the ONLY person meeting those top 5 ENs. If YOU don't meet them...she will find SOMEONE who will. Because they are important to her, and she will not be happy unless they are met.

If you read the book His Needs Her Needs it will explain it all. 

If you're not doing even this basic amount of work on your marriage, you can't expect her to be into you.


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## peace

turnera said:


> A Love Buster is what YOU do that annoys your spouse. My DH's biggest LBs are leaving dirty Q-tips lying around the house, dropping his clothes all over the house, not repairing things around the house that break down, hording stuff all over the house, and being negative all.the.time. See, it could be anything. Whatever she says is an LB that you do, is valid - to HER. If you have her fill out the LB questionnaire from marriagebuilders.com, you will know what YOU do that bothers her, so you can stop them.
> 
> If you don't stop the LBs, a LOT of resentment builds up, trust dies, love fades - no matter how hard you try to woo her or make her happy. Gotta stop the LBs first.
> 
> Emotional Needs are different for each person. Another questionnaire from MB will tell you what her top 5 ENs are so that you can make sure YOU are the ONLY person meeting those top 5 ENs. If YOU don't meet them...she will find SOMEONE who will. Because they are important to her, and she will not be happy unless they are met.
> 
> If you read the book His Needs Her Needs it will explain it all.
> 
> If you're not doing even this basic amount of work on your marriage, you can't expect her to be into you.


Tunera I get it now...
Well I do most of the dishes and laundry. I close the opens drawers she leaves open and pick up her pajamas of the floor. I also am the one to leave not only our bed but I taught my daughter to do her bed as well. I fix everything that breaks around the house. I do more than the share duties and have given her all the love needed to keep a healthy sex drive. I open the car door for her all the time and wait for her to sit down before I do in a restaurant. I tell her she looks great even when she doesnt. I take out the trash, cut our lawn and maintain the pool and jacuzzi clean. I also fix the cars, oil changes, brakes, etc. And last when something is broken I fix it right then in there. I look like Vin Diesel and do all those things!!!


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## turnera

I think we've had this discussion before. 

You are talking about what YOU think is important to her.

Do you KNOW what IS important to her?

That's what the questionnaires are for.

If she couldn't care less that you do dishes and laundry, the only thing you've accomplished is making yourself look like a doormat, to be despised.

And frankly, if she is such a lazy, selfish slob...why are you even fighting for this marriage? She obviously doesn't love you, and married you - or stayed married - for a sugar daddy.


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## peace

turnera said:


> I think we've had this discussion before.
> 
> You are talking about what YOU think is important to her.
> 
> Do you KNOW what IS important to her?
> 
> That's what the questionnaires are for.
> 
> If she couldn't care less that you do dishes and laundry, the only thing you've accomplished is making yourself look like a doormat, to be despised.
> 
> And frankly, if she is such a lazy, selfish slob...why are you even fighting for this marriage? She obviously doesn't love you, and married you - or stayed married - for a sugar daddy.


I kick myself in the a-- for that myself. I stopped that two months ago either pick up or move on. I did put a stop to it, I was brought up diffrent my parents do everything together. I was raised that way. I only do my things now!


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## 8yearscheating

Key point. What are HER lbs and ens. From her not what you think they are. You could be doing all of those things and one serious love buster or one very important emotional need is missed and everything you do doesn't matter
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

8yearscheating said:


> Key point. What are HER lbs and ens. From her not what you think they are. You could be doing all of those things and one serious love buster or one very important emotional need is missed and everything you do doesn't matter
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her emotional needs were always met. I made sure of that, I was always pleasing her in every way. She admits to that always did. That is why I am so flabergasted inside....


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## 8yearscheating

Just be aware. If she is in a fog you will be painted with black brush in her responses. There will be some truth though
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

IMO, she lost respect for you because you become her daddy, her nanny, her maid...anything but the strong man she would be attracted to.


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## peace

turnera said:


> IMO, she lost respect for you because you become her daddy, her nanny, her maid...anything but the strong man she would be attracted to.


If this would have been after the first year of marriage I would have accept that. But after almost nine years I don't think so. I have never shown any weakness in our marriage. She has made wrong choices and now is too late, their are circumstances for all she has done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## peace

8yearscheating said:


> Just be aware. If she is in a fog you will be painted with black brush in her responses. There will be some truth though
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ofcourse she is in a fog and the truth will come out. She has tried to provoke me this week with silly messages until I put a stop to it. I will not allow any contact with her unless she comes clean. I will not take "I don't know" for an answer anymore. I have hate for her now and a lot of resentment that I don't think that it will go away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

I had to go back and Reread your thread. From what I read, she is not being honest about her late nights out but has actually NOT told you anything and appears to have stopped that behavior. Am I correct in assuming you have no other proof than a couple of late nights out? I agree that those nights and her behavior are huge red flags. Have you done any investigating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

8yearscheating said:


> I had to go back and Reread your thread. From what I read, she is not being honest about her late nights out but has actually NOT told you anything and appears to have stopped that behavior. Am I correct in assuming you have no other proof than a couple of late nights out? I agree that those nights and her behavior are huge red flags. Have you done any investigating?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly, that is how it all started. I am ready with a PI in case she decides to go out at night again. What sucks is that I live in a no fault state.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK

A hankerin' for late night partying with strange men probably wouldn't do you much good in a "fault state" (?:scratchhead. All you need the PI for is to prove that these nights out are NOT innocent. A desire to party with the boys instead of spending quality time with her family is WAY inappropriate. (Not to mention the good night face-suck when the bar closes).


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## peace

It has been a week since I had the last one on one conversation with her and told her that this marriage could not continue unless she came clean with me. I told her that a MC was the only way that I would encounter in a any conversation and that she needed to be truthfull to herself and me out of respect. She has not tried to come to me and address anything for that matter. I see that she has been drinking what could be anti dep pills. Since I told her everything I needed to tell her I decided that their was nothing left for me to do but to ignore her and live my life in home far away. She has not gone out anymore but their could be a chance that she does. 

Since now we are not talking to each other and I basically told her that this marriage is over. What should I do if she tells me tonight or tomorrow night that she is going out. I already told her that if she decides to continue to go out, then she needed to get her stuff and move out. I know it is easier said than done, I am dealing with a person who is not capable of having a normal set down and understand the damage already done. I feel that I have no more bullets in my chamber left, I have tried everything with her and she does not have the guts to come clean with me. If she would have told me or given me a hint about something I would have at least either done something about it right away or moved on.


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## major misfit

If you have set that boundary, and she goes out anyway, pack her a bag and have it by the door when she comes back. Tell her to find somewhere else to stay, and she can pick the rest of her things up at another time. Make sure you include her toiletries and necessary items. That way she can't use it as an excuse. 

I don't think you're entirely out of bullets yet, but she seems to be dodging them all. Time for the big guns, unfortunately. I'm so sorry it has come down to this.


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## peace

major misfit said:


> If you have set that boundary, and she goes out anyway, pack her a bag and have it by the door when she comes back. Tell her to find somewhere else to stay, and she can pick the rest of her things up at another time. Make sure you include her toiletries and necessary items. That way she can't use it as an excuse.
> 
> I don't think you're entirely out of bullets yet, but she seems to be dodging them all. Time for the big guns, unfortunately. I'm so sorry it has come down to this.


Can I legally do this, can she use this as domestic abuse. I am afraid that she can make false allegations with the police. I would have to have my daughter out of the house so she can`t see non of this taking place. I can`t beleive it has gotten to this point, that I am even talking or writing about this. I am having shortness of breathe as I writing this right now. I am going to the clinic to get my pressure taken and to see a doctor right now. Why am I feeling this way knowing that I have done nothing wrong.


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## Catherine602

peace said:


> Exactly, that is how it all started. I am ready with a PI in case she decides to go out at night again. What sucks is that I live in a no fault state.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right that cheating is no longer grounds for divorce but it does have a profound effect on the judge in areas where he/she can exercise descretion. Those areas are property settlement and monetary agreements. The judge uses descrestion and not law to divide up the assets although 50:50 is the goal. Added to that equation is mitigating factors, that are weighed by the judge. 

Judges frown on cheaters, and men or women who abandon their family physically or emotionally. I think the PI is an excellent idea. Also, knowing what she is up to will help you to see the light and never be disrespected by her again. 

Did you write that you looked like Vin Diesel?? 

http://teenymanolo.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/VinDiesel.jpg

All I can say is... I am speechless. :corkysm60:


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## major misfit

Domestic abuse? Unless there's something somewhere that I don't know about, that doesn't fall under the "abuse" category. You told her that if she goes out again, she needs to get her things and leave. You're going to have to enforce that. And packing her bags for her if she won't pack them herself is going to be the only way. She wants to act like a single person? Let her live like one. 

I'm so sorry that this is affecting you so profoundly. I can very well understand why, though. It's frightening.


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## Catherine602

Actually you do have leverage, it's mostly psychological in nature with a component of real risk to her stability. You have to think carefully about what you are willing to tolerate to avoid the consequences of parting. Only don't let her know where your level of tolerance is, that's where the psychology comes in, she does not know if and when you will drop the hammer.


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## turnera

major misfit said:


> If you have set that boundary, and she goes out anyway, pack her a bag and have it by the door when she comes back. Tell her to find somewhere else to stay, and she can pick the rest of her things up at another time. Make sure you include her toiletries and necessary items. That way she can't use it as an excuse.
> 
> I don't think you're entirely out of bullets yet, but she seems to be dodging them all. Time for the big guns, unfortunately. I'm so sorry it has come down to this.


 Exactly what I was going to say. 

You set a boundary. You HAVE to abide by it. 

If you don't send her packing, she'll start bringing guys _home_, because she's lost all respect for you.


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## peace

Catherine602 said:


> You are right that cheating is no longer grounds for divorce but it does have a profound effect on the judge in areas where he/she can exercise descretion. Those areas are property settlement and monetary agreements. The judge uses descrestion and not law to divide up the assets although 50:50 is the goal. Added to that equation is mitigating factors, that are weighed by the judge.
> 
> Judges frown on cheaters, and men or women who abandon their family physically or emotionally. I think the PI is an excellent idea. Also, knowing what she is up to will help you to see the light and never be disrespected by her again.
> 
> Did you write that you looked like Vin Diesel??
> 
> http://teenymanolo.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/VinDiesel.jpg
> 
> All I can say is... I am speechless. :corkysm60:


Thank you Cat! Yes, I did write about people telling me that I look like Vin Diesel, only I am a little taller.


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## 8yearscheating

Who is her closest relative? If it's her parents or sister, tell her you will call them to come get her. That way your not throwing her out on the street. Emphasize the duration of it is up to her decisions. If she wants to open up and work on the marriage you'll welcome her back. If not, you will contact a lawyer and work out a separation agreement for 50% of all of the mortgage, home expenses and child care/insurance. You will not be responsible for her car payments/insurance, apartment or anything else and the kid will stay in the stable home enviroment. You should talk with a lawyer before this happens to be prepared. Don't shove it in her face though - including contacting the lawyer. Wait until it happens. I would also advise you get the PI on board now and have him start investigating. He may be able to find some proof even if she doesn't go out and it would help your legal standing if you have to go before the courts for a legal separation. Last but not least, if you can gain access to her phone and are sure she isn't using a prepaid from a big box, you can install software that will send all texts in and out and emails to your email address (preferrably one she doesn't know about). You can also get higher level software that will give you location and even allow you to listen in. This may be a good task forthe PI to monitor for you.


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## turnera

Put it in writing, so any potential issue with cops or whatever you have evidence that you told her not to go.

IN that letter, tell her you love her and you want her to choose the marriage over her own 'single' fun. But that you deserve more than a part-time wife.


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## turnera

And don't forget to be taking a good hard look at your marriage. If you're not working to make it WORTH her time to stay, why should she?


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## 8yearscheating

Last but not least, install a stealth keyboard logger on the home pc and any work computer she has.


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## peace

turnera said:


> Exactly what I was going to say.
> 
> You set a boundary. You HAVE to abide by it.
> 
> If you don't send her packing, she'll start bringing guys _home_, because she's lost all respect for you.



Agree Tunera,
What if she refuses and gives me a hard time. I do not want her to provoke me for her to call 911 on me. I do not trust her a bit who knows what she has been told by her toxic friends who have had their spouses thrown in jail for false allegations. I have a serious problem in my hand with her attitude.


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## turnera

Why don't YOU call 911?


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## major misfit

You can call your PD's non emergency number, and ask that an officer be present when your wife arrives. If she happens to show before an officer gets there, and there is even a *hint* that she's about to nut out on you, call 911 first.


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## peace

8yearscheating said:


> Who is her closest relative? If it's her parents or sister, tell her you will call them to come get her. That way your not throwing her out on the street. Emphasize the duration of it is up to her decisions. If she wants to open up and work on the marriage you'll welcome her back. If not, you will contact a lawyer and work out a separation agreement for 50% of all of the mortgage, home expenses and child care/insurance.  You will not be responsible for her car payments/insurance, apartment or anything else and the kid will stay in the stable home enviroment. You should talk with a lawyer before this happens to be prepared. Don't shove it in her face though - including contacting the lawyer. Wait until it happens. I would also advise you get the PI on board now and have him start investigating. He may be able to find some proof even if she doesn't go out and it would help your legal standing if you have to go before the courts for a legal separation. Last but not least, if you can gain access to her phone and are sure she isn't using a prepaid from a big box, you can install software that will send all texts in and out and emails to your email address (preferrably one she doesn't know about). You can also get higher level software that will give you location and even allow you to listen in. This may be a good task forthe PI to monitor for you.


Her mother is the one that knows about everything that is going on. She herself told me to throw her out when and if she decides to go out again. So what do I say, that I will call your mother to come pick uo your stuff?


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## peace

Just came back from the clinic. They hooked up the EKG and I checked ok. I was diagnosed with Anxiety, the doctor prescribed a pill which I fear to take because I am working out a lot to get myself ready for a cross country event.


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## SHARKY

I`m glad you checked out ok. Listen do what is right for you and your situation. We all can give advice, but ultimately you are living it. All I can say is that do what your heart tells you and don`t look back. Stay strong and look at the good things and not the bad, good luck with your therapy on Tuesday. That will help you find some strength in your situation that you did not think about.

PS: Why the "F" if you look like Vin Diesel and have so many great qualities are you worried about!!!!!!!!


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## peace

Just came back from the gym. All I can say is that I feel so much better to get out and do things that make me feel good about myself. I will not let myself go down anymore. Tomorrow I have a plan and Sunday as well no more looking back or waiting for my selfish wife to come out of her cave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Good for you!


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## peace

turnera said:


> Good for you!


Thank you Tunera, she is trying to provoke me today. She can't see me going to the gym and be happy while ignoring her. She asked for it, I did not plan this mess. Never a dull moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

peace said:


> Just came back from the gym. All I can say is that I feel so much better to get out and do things that make me feel good about myself. I will not let myself go down anymore. Tomorrow I have a plan and Sunday as well no more looking back or waiting for my selfish wife to come out of her cave.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The gender neutral term for "man up" is GROW UP.

Good job Peace.


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## peace

The weekend is over and our marriage as well. I can`t see myself waisting my time trying to convince myself that she will come around. If she wanted to work on this marriage she would have the very least try to have a conversation with me about what has taken place. Instead she is avoiding her wrong doing and would not man up to it. 

I can not continue living a farce of a marriage because she is not being truthful to herself or me fore that matter. It is not fair for me or my daughter who will be the one hurting the most. It is not that I have givin up or feel that I have failed, is the fact that I can not continue living a lie. Tomorrow is my first visit to a Psychologists, I need to write all the things down to be able to remember everything.


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## major misfit

Peace...I'm so sorry that it came to this. I so wish she had woken up and realized that she had a good husband and wonderful child worth fighting for. 

So glad you're seeing a T, I hope you can find some real peace. I wish you the best.


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## peace

major misfit said:


> Peace...I'm so sorry that it came to this. I so wish she had woken up and realized that she had a good husband and wonderful child worth fighting for.
> 
> So glad you're seeing a T, I hope you can find some real peace. I wish you the best.


Thank you MM,

It is very hard to accept the fact that I have tried everything to save this marriage knowing that I was not at fault. However, she is in denial and thinks that I will be here forever just because we have a house and a daughter together. This has only been three month in the happening but I can`t see myself lasting years of torture for the sake of what.

I have read so many threads here where people have been in the marriage for years and years to then end in divorce. I do not want that for me or my daughter. I am very confused and hurt to think that I am totally committed to saving a marriage that was great to have to end it not knowing why. She owes me that, I need to know why so I can have my peace.

I do not know her anymore or I can ever trust her again. I can not see myself waisting years of my life when I have so much to offer. I am not perfect, but sure do try my hardest to do the right things to have a peaceful marriage. That is why I am so hurt inside, the fact that she won`t man up to me and tell me the truth. I need to gather my thoughts in how to live my life knowing that this marriage was not failed by me.


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## turnera

So, you're willing to give up half your time with your daughter? That's what will happen; she'll get at least 50% custody.

Remind me what you have done since this started. And what she has done.


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## peace

turnera said:


> So, you're willing to give up half your time with your daughter? That's what will happen; she'll get at least 50% custody.
> 
> Remind me what you have done since this started. And what she has done.


Tunera I have had several sit downs with her for her to open up and tell me what is going on. She has refused to open up and tell me what is going. I told that she needs to be truthful to herself and me for our marriage to work. If someone wants a marriage to work they will make it work no matter what, especially with me. 

I have given her every option to come clean without antagonizing her for that matter. She checked out thinking that their will be no consequences to follow. It is hard to come home and act as if nothing is wrong because my daughter catches everything, she is seeing us in seperate places without each other.

I never wanted to come to this, I love my family and can`t begin to imagine what would it be like to be apart 50% of the time from my daughter who is so close to me. I can say that by even writing this right now I have tears coming down, because I have given all my soul to try to save this the best way I can.

Last: I told her that in order for this to work and regain the trust, we need to see a MC together. She refused!


----------



## SHARKY

peace said:


> Tunera I have had several sit downs with her for her to open up and tell me what is going on. She has refused to open up and tell me what is going. I told that she needs to be truthful to herself and me for our marriage to work. If someone wants a marriage to work they will make it work no matter what, especially with me.
> 
> I have given her every option to come clean with antagonizing for that matter. She checked out thinking that I their are no consequences. It is hard to come home and act as if nothing is wrong because my daughter catches everything, she is seeing us in seperate places without each other.
> 
> I never wanted to come to this, I love my family and can`t begin to imagine what would it be like to be apart 50% of the time from my daughter who is so close to me. I can say that by even writing this right now I have tears coming down, because I have given all my soul to try to save this the best way I can.
> 
> Last: I told her that in order for this to work and regain the trust, we need to see a MC together. She refused!



From what I have gathered here peace, a few years from now if not sooner, she will regret everything that she has done. Knowing that she never gave the marriage a chance, she is going to run into a brick wall and will never bounce back. I`m sure others will say the same!


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## peace

SHARKY said:


> From what I have gathered here peace, a few years from now if not sooner, she will regret everything that she has done. Knowing that she never gave the marriage a chance, she is going to run into a brick wall and will never bounce back. I`m sure others will say the same!


That will be her problem then. I will witness that when it comes, she made her bed and now she has to sleep in it for the rest of her life. I have so many people on my side giving me so much support everyday. This sight and the people around me have made me realize what a great man I am. I will not let myself down for something that is out of my control. I am in control of myself and that to me is important.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Powerbane

You are great and don't forget it. 

Keep your strength but also know how far you can stretch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Powerbane said:


> You are great and don't forget it.
> 
> Keep your strength but also know how far you can stretch.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Powerbane thank you so much for those words of encouragement. It means a lot to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Just a little insight to what she has been trying to do. She sends me text messages in the morning asking how did it go with my daughter taking her to school. Then an hour later, are you going to the gym today, then two hours later are you taking our daughter to dance classes tonight, my reply, dont I always. Her reply, I know I just wanted to go to the grocery store while you two were there, is their anything you need at the grocery store. She does this all day to then get home and be in her cave. She is so imature and so childish to say the least. That is why I told her that she needs to stop texting me with so much trivial stuff. Why is she doing by all of this?

PS: Today is my first visit to therapy by myself, wish me luck!


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## major misfit

I don't know what game she's running on you, but I DO wish you luck in therapy today! Good luck!


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## WhereAmI

peace said:


> Just a little insight to what she has been trying to do. She sends me text messages in the morning asking how did it go with my daughter taking her to school. Then an hour later, are you going to the gym today, then two hours later are you taking our daughter to dance classes tonight, my reply, dont I always. Her reply, I know I just wanted to go to the grocery store while you two were there, is their anything you need at the grocery store. She does this all day to then get home and be in her cave. She is so imature and so childish to say the least. *That is why I told her that she needs to stop texting me with so much trivial stuff.* Why is she doing by all of this?
> 
> PS: Today is my first visit to therapy by myself, wish me luck!


Remember that the only person you can control is you. You've asked her to stop texting you with trivial stuff. If she doesn't stop, simply stop responding. She's worried about what you're doing, allow her to worry!


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## turnera

She's trying 'change back!' behavior (as described in the wonderful book The Dance Of Anger) to get you to go back to the way you were, the way she liked you.


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## peace

WhereAmI said:


> Remember that the only person you can control is you. You've asked her to stop texting you with trivial stuff. If she doesn't stop, simply stop responding. She's worried about what you're doing, allow her to worry!



Exactly! She is intrigued because I am in control of myself and moving on. I will not fall into her trap, she has caused this mess and now she has to live with it. She will live with regret all her life because I will move on knowing I did everything to save this marriage and she did not. It is my turn to be happy without her in my life.


----------



## peace

turnera said:


> She's trying 'change back!' behavior (as described in the wonderful book The Dance Of Anger) to get you to go back to the way you were, the way she liked you.



Yes she is and I will not come back to the way I was. Too much has happened without reason. She will have a lot of time to reflect on what she did and she will be reminded everyday when I am not around anymore.


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## peace

Just came back from my fist therapy by myself. All I can say that we hit it off from the get go. I was able to say everything without having to worry about anything. she told me to stay put because I have done nothing wrong. Stay within my boundaries without being rude. I have so much strength and will power to move on with myself right now. I will never regret what happens in my marriage because I can say that I have tried everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SHARKY

peace said:


> Just came back from my fist therapy by myself. All I can say that we hit it off from the get go. I was able to say everything without having to worry about anything. she told me to stay put because I have done nothing wrong. Stay within my boundaries without being rude. I have so much strength and will power to move on with myself right now. I will never regret what happens in my marriage because I can say that I have tried everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Good for you,
Sure makes you feel great I bet, sometimes we need a partial person to hear us out. I am glad it worked for you because it does not work for everyone. Are you going again?


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## peace

SHARKY said:


> Good for you,
> Sure makes you feel great I bet, sometimes we need a partial person to hear us out. I am glad it worked for you because it does not work for everyone. Are you going again?



I am going again to ask a few things I left out. In the meantime, I am moving on to find a final solution that will benefit me and my daughter. I do not think after all that has happened that I can ever trust her again, not to mention feel the same for her again. I do not want to be in this delima for too long because it will send negative vibes to my daughter.


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## peace

I feel so good about myself now that I am the one now that does not want this marriage to work. I know it may seem a bit to soon, however, I have played it over and over and I don't think that I could ever trust her again. I have gained all my lost confidence back and now she is running into that brick wall. I guess my cup got full enough to accept the fact that I am with the wrong partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## peace

I had my second therapy session yesterday. It went really well for the most part. I could never trust her again, she has scared me for life to the point of no return. The only thing that scares me is to be apart from my daughter 50/50. I broke down and cried like a little kid facing the fact that I can not continue living a farce of a marriage with someone who does not appreciate me.

I am not just a dad I am Mr. Mom and I can not see myself one day without my daughter by my side. This will cause me serious therapy help because I will not know how to cope with that. I never thought that this will come to this, however, life has so many obsticles and this is one that I was not ready for. It is so hard everyday to be with my daughter and her not knowing what her daddy is going thru for her kills me.


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## turnera

Do you know for sure it will be 50/50? Can you push for more?


----------



## peace

turnera said:


> Do you know for sure it will be 50/50? Can you push for more?


Tunera I am going to push for what I can. However, the mother always has more rights in these situations. I am sane because of my daughter, no matter what I do to keep my mind off this, my daughter jumps in and sets me back. What a roller coaster ride I am riding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SHARKY

peace said:


> Tunera I am going to push for what I can. However, the mother always has more rights in these situations. I am sane because of my daughter, no matter what I do to keep my mind off this, my daughter jumps in and sets me back. What a roller coaster ride I am riding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




You no why, because you have a bond with your daughter unlike other parents. You love your daughter so much it hurts. You are the only person that knows, because you and only you have that connection with your daughter. Hang in there, you will always shine because god looks over people like you.


----------



## peace

SHARKY said:


> You no why, because you have a bond with your daughter unlike other parents. You love your daughter so much it hurts. You are the only person that knows, because you and only you have that connection with your daughter. Hang in there, you will always shine because god looks over people like you.


Exactly! You could not have said it best. Only I can see that because I am the one to be in this predicament.


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## peace

Can someone explain this for me please. Today out of all days I get a text at noon from the wife saying this, "what color do you want to paint the house" this text blew my head away so fast that I had to pull over and think. My reply was to be assertive, any color will be better than what is on there right now. Her reply, do you have a color in mind. My reply, no I do not, I have not had the time to think about this. Her reply, can we meet after work to choose the color. My reply, tonight our daughter has dance classes and I do not want to be late. Her reply, Ok we will do it tomorrow then.

Now! What is all that about, she wants a connection with me just like that. You see what I am dealing with here, someone who does not want to take responsibility for everything that has happened. She really needs help to find herself and be truthful in order for this to work. She has me all confused, this roller coaster ride is really draining me. What does she want to do here, is this a way for her to see if I reply to her and if I am polite. Is she fishing to catch my attention for her to feel safe. She wants a reaction from me, good or bad. I really do not know anymore. Totally confused right now!


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## F-102

Tell her black, or purple with pink polka dots.


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## peace

F-102 said:


> Tell her black, or purple with pink polka dots.


I did tell her this though and not in a text because I do not want any trivial stuff in writing. I told her that if this was the most important thing for her at this point in time. Her reply was that I had wanted to change the color myself, I then told her "YES" that was over six month ago.


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## SHARKY

You know Peace, I do not know what she is thinking, it looks like she has her head and priorities all screwed up. I think you need to evaluate your intrest and set your boundaries, so she can understand that you are to be respected as such. Your daughter and you deserve better. I`m sorry to say this, she could be my wifes twin, spoiled B------s who does not appreciate her family.


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## peace

I have set my boundaries, however, I feel bitter and mad about this situation. I will not take legal action until I get myself out of my bitterness. Because I am mad and bitter making decisions could be done without thinking properly. I want to be at peace first for me to seek the final outcome. At this point forgiveness is not an option for me as much as it hurts I need to move on with my life in order for me to be happy.

PS: I do not want to even have a last sit down with her for a discussion.


----------



## sinnister

Sorry it's coming to this but I'm glad your rational enough to realize how you're feeling. And let it be known that your are completely entitled to that bitterness and resentment. I cringe at the thought of trying to make a marriage work when the other party clearly has no desire or respect for it. It's all about accountability. She is accountable for her part in this. You are completely justified in everything you've done and how you've handled this IMO.


----------



## peace

sinnister said:


> Sorry it's coming to this but I'm glad your rational enough to realize how you're feeling. And let it be known that your are completely entitled to that bitterness and resentment. I cringe at the thought of trying to make a marriage work when the other party clearly has no desire or respect for it. It's all about accountability. She is accountable for her part in this. You are completely justified in everything you've done and how you've handled this IMO.



Thank you Sinnister,
It is hard when you love someone and find yourself alone in a marriage. I found to believe that the more the days pass the more bitterness I get. It is hard for me to do what my therapist told me, she said that if the W does not set down and discuss the why and the why nots in what has been going on, for me to then ask her what is she going to do and put her against the wall. I do not even know how to approach this, maybe is fear knowing that this is over for real. I just do not want to be needy to someone who is not in the same page as me.


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## typewittyusernamehere

Bitterness is poison, my friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Powerbane

Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. 

I'm really hoping you can get past some of this. Sounds like your Giver is tired of giving and your Taker is clamoring for attention. 

Are you getting enough alone time with your wife or can you?

I started taking my wife out on little mini dates - coffee, run to Walgreens or Walmart. Just me and her. It was awkward at first but it does get better the more you do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

typewittyusernamehere said:


> Bitterness is poison, my friend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I know I have witness it, continuing to hope for the best from someone who consistently gives you the worst is a set-up for more pain and disillusionment. Because I fear her reaction! I have been through this before and it hasn’t helped, so why bother? In this case, there needs to be a clear second look at what it means to resolve conflict in our marriage, how to have a “good fight,” as it were, that really bring things to resolution. I know the emotional distance will just continue to grow if I do not bring out the cards. How will I do this, I do not know yet because I have a wall set up around me and the hurt is beyond repair.


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## peace

Powerbane said:


> Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.
> 
> I'm really hoping you can get past some of this. Sounds like your Giver is tired of giving and your Taker is clamoring for attention.
> 
> Are you getting enough alone time with your wife or can you?
> 
> I started taking my wife out on little mini dates - coffee, run to Walgreens or Walmart. Just me and her. It was awkward at first but it does get better the more you do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I am very tired in this relationship, and her living in denial. She does not want to admit that it’s happening. She needs to make some significant changes is most content to deny the existence of any real issues. She is really living in denial, as if it’s not really happening, or it’s not that bad, or things will get better in time. But living in denial doesn’t fix things; it only causes the marriage to deteriorate to the point where I just do not feel anything anymore to spill my heart out.


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## Conrad

And the more you try to convince her, plead, and beg, the worse it will get.


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## peace

Conrad said:


> And the more you try to convince her, plead, and beg, the worse it will get.



I never did none of this, because I know how that works. My conversations with her have been about her being honest with herself first, so she can be honest with me. I deserve that from her at least. It is the only thing I need for my peace of mind.


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## Powerbane

Unfortunately, you cannot change anyone but yourself. You can influence them by your own changes. Listen to Conrad 

Check out the Man Up Stickies in the Mens Section.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Powerbane said:


> Unfortunately, you cannot change anyone but yourself. You can influence them by your own changes. Listen to Conrad
> 
> Check out the Man Up Stickies in the Mens Section.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Powerbone I am very active, thank god! I go to the gym, play in a league always busy. I do not sit around or hide in a cave.


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## Powerbane

Thats some good news! I fricken neutered myself unknowingly for a few years. I'm working hard on full recovery and wife is appreciative (even if only subconciously from her perspective). 

Sorry for threadjack - I hope she will wake up at some point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Powerbane said:


> Thats some good news! I fricken neutered myself unknowingly for a few years. I'm working hard on full recovery and wife is appreciative (even if only subconciously from her perspective).
> 
> Sorry for threadjack - I hope she will wake up at some point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Powerbone, no worries about hijacking here. By the time she wakes up, she will be without a husband. Another big factor is that she has always lied about many things, not only to me but to her own family. I could never trust her again, she would have to go to a therapist for her issues and I for trusting her again. A liar will always be a liar, and three years from now I will be in the same situation with her again.


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## typewittyusernamehere

peace said:


> I know I have witness it, continuing to hope for the best from someone who consistently gives you the worst is a set-up for more pain and disillusionment. Because I fear her reaction! I have been through this before and it hasn’t helped, so why bother? In this case, there needs to be a clear second look at what it means to resolve conflict in our marriage, how to have a “good fight,” as it were, that really bring things to resolution. I know the emotional distance will just continue to grow if I do not bring out the cards. How will I do this, I do not know yet because I have a wall set up around me and the hurt is beyond repair.


It seems like you have been hurt so much, that you are done, but it also seems that there is still some hope, and that you actually want things to work out, deep down. I could be totally wrong, but I get hints of it. It seems that the whole "what color do we paint the house" thing is her trying to just side step this last "incident" forget it all happened, and just move on. Maybe if you make a step in the direction of separation/divorce, it will let her know that, no, you cannot just forget about it anymore, and if she doesn't get help/counseling, you will proceed to the next step. Maybe she needs to see that you're not effin around anymore. I could be way off at this suggestion, but sometimes people need a true "eye opener" to realize that they are hurting their SO's, and that a change needs to be made......


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## peace

typewittyusernamehere said:


> It seems like you have been hurt so much, that you are done, but it also seems that there is still some hope, and that you actually want things to work out, deep down. I could be totally wrong, but I get hints of it. It seems that the whole "what color do we paint the house" thing is her trying to just side step this last "incident" forget it all happened, and just move on. Maybe if you make a step in the direction of separation/divorce, it will let her know that, no, you cannot just forget about it anymore, and if she doesn't get help/counseling, you will proceed to the next step. Maybe she needs to see that you're not effin around anymore. I could be way off at this suggestion, but sometimes people need a true "eye opener" to realize that they are hurting their SO's, and that a change needs to be made......


Exactly my friend the only thing is that I do not trust her anymore. I will have a very difficult time coping with what has happened. I am sorting out all my options to move forward with the divorce. I am just waiting to get myself in control to gather and do all the right things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

I finally asked my wife what was she going to do about this situation.
Her reply: What situation

my: The situation with us

her: Their is nothing and their has been nothing between you and I

my: So you could not be honest with me, and tell me up front

her: I am telling you now I have nothing left in this marriage

my: All this time that I have reached out to get a responce and you just ignored the matter at hand. Are daughter is seeing that we are not the same and it is not fair to her to live like this. Are you ok living like this knowing their is nothing left for the sake of what.

her: We don`t fight or argue so she does not see anything wrong

my: really, because we dont argue or fight does not meen that an eight year old can not see what is going on between us.

her:she stayed quite 

my: so we need to be honest with our daughter and move forward with the divorce

her: ok, but it doesnt have to be tomorrow and she left

Now what is left to do? I am speechless!


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## SadSamIAm

What is left to do?

Cancel all joint bank accounts, credit cards, etc.

That should get her attention!

Put together a Separation Agreement for her to sign detailing custody, child support amounts, living arrangements, etc. Make an appointment with a date and time when you will get together to discuss and possibly both sign the agreement.

Then look for an apartment for you or her (whatever is decided) and separate.

If you actually do these things (not just talk), then she will see that she has to do something .... or let it happen.


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## typewittyusernamehere

I am sorry to read this, but maybe she thinks your bluffing. Also, the "it doesnt have to be tomorrow" is very selfish, why should your feelings be put on hold? I agree with SadSam, doing these things will make have to face things, and make a decision.


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## turnera

File for full custody and then let her backtrack from that point.


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## typewittyusernamehere

turnera said:


> File for full custody and then let her backtrack from that point.



Why do you keep going back to the custody thing? I don't think I read that she was a bad mother. If both parents are good parents, then they should get equal time. As hard as it is to lose half your time with your child, it is still in the CHILD'S best interest to have equal time with both parents....


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## turnera

I think a parent who gives up on a marriage when children are involved, without being willing to at least TRY to fix it and give the kids a whole home, IS a bad parent. A selfish one. JMHO


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## typewittyusernamehere

turnera said:


> I think a parent who gives up on a marriage when children are involved, without being willing to at least TRY to fix it and give the kids a whole home, IS a bad parent. A selfish one. JMHO


I concur, that was my ex. However, it is detrimental to a child's rearing to have both parents equally involved. Unless of course the parent is a drug addict, abuser, etc.....


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## turnera

Just because he would go for full custody doesn't mean he'd get it; she'd just have to show why she deserves half.


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## typewittyusernamehere

turnera said:


> Just because he would go for full custody doesn't mean he'd get it; she'd just have to show why she deserves half.


&& it's a good way to turn a possible amicable break into a bitter nasty divorce


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## peace

typewittyusernamehere said:


> I am sorry to read this, but maybe she thinks your bluffing. Also, the "it doesnt have to be tomorrow" is very selfish, why should your feelings be put on hold? I agree with SadSam, doing these things will make have to face things, and make a decision.



She might think that I am bluffing. However, the truth will be handed to her for her to see that I was not bluffing. She will regret and live with her guilt knowing that she did not do one thing to save this marriage. It is sad that my child and I have had to deal with her detachment for no reason.


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## peace

typewittyusernamehere said:


> && it's a good way to turn a possible amicable break into a bitter nasty divorce


The last thing on my mind is a nasty break up as much as I hate what she has put us through. I have lost so much sleep and time trying to cope with all of this. I do not want to put my daughter in the middle and freak her out. My only problem in all of this is that I did not ever plan to have my daughter 50/50 when she was born. My plans were as any parent, having her in my home until she either went away to college or gets married. I never in my dreams think that this was going to be part of the plan. That is what hurts me the most, knowing that I have to share the only person I love the most.


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## typewittyusernamehere

peace said:


> The last thing on my mind is a nasty break up as much as I hate what she has put us through. I have lost so much sleep and time trying to cope with all of this. I do not want to put my daughter in the middle and freak her out. My only problem in all of this is that I did not ever plan to have my daughter 50/50 when she was born. My plans were as any parent, having her in my home until she either went away to college or gets married. I never in my dreams think that this was going to be part of the plan. That is what hurts me the most, knowing that I have to share the only person I love the most.


I can not say enough, I know how you feel. I'm so sorry you are going through this.....


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## peace

typewittyusernamehere said:


> I can not say enough, I know how you feel. I'm so sorry you are going through this.....



I can begin to imagine about my seperation from my daughter on a daily basis. This is what is making me ill, I will need special therapy just for this. I can`t stop thinking about this, I put her to sleep every night. She always calls me in the middle of the night to come to her bed in her sleep, I run and cuddle until she falls asleep. We say our prayers as well every night before going to bed. This is going to be a big impact on her and I can not do anything about it.


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## 8yearscheating

Stay the course, you will not be cut off from her. If your determined to D find a lawyer now. He can settle you mind about waht the options are. You'll always be her dad.


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## Powerbane

Does your wife explicitly know that you are feeling this way?

I'm getting the feeling that she doesn't. Does she?

Regardless, you've lost hope. I'm sorry to hear that. Get yourself a counselor and get some work done with yourself first.

8yrs is right - you won't be cut off from your daughter - but you will not be with her as much as you want. 

Has your wife stopped hanging with toxic friend as much?


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## peace

8yearscheating said:


> Stay the course, you will not be cut off from her. If your determined to D find a lawyer now. He can settle you mind about waht the options are. You'll always be her dad.


I have that covered already, my brother has a law firm. I know all my rights as how all this works out. Its the emotions that have me all screwed up.


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## peace

Powerbane said:


> Does your wife explicitly know that you are feeling this way?
> 
> I'm getting the feeling that she doesn't. Does she?
> 
> Regardless, you've lost hope. I'm sorry to hear that. Get yourself a counselor and get some work done with yourself first.
> 
> 8yrs is right - you won't be cut off from your daughter - but you will not be with her as much as you want.
> 
> Has your wife stopped hanging with toxic friend as much?


I have been seeing a therapist, it is that I have lost hope. The problem will always be trust, yesterday was a long day. She asked me again about painting the house after we had the conversation on the divorce. I asked her why do you want to paint the house now especially with me. Her reply was that she wants to get along for our childs sake. So I said, that is fine however, our child is not seeing harmony even though we do not fight. Again I asked her, Divorce is what you want correct? she did not reply to that, her reply was we need to figure out stuff. If she is wishy washy on this now, it is really going to make me mad, because I am not here to play games. I told her that we need to talk wtihout any further delay.


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## peace

Powerbane said:


> Has your wife stopped hanging with toxic friend as much?



She sees her at work everyday, I do not know if she hangs out after hours too. She has not done the all night thing anymore, but I`m sure she is will soon.


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## Dedicated2Her

"She has not done the all night thing anymore, but I`m sure she is will soon."

Peace, I'm going to be totally frank here. I think you have an opportunity to save your marriage. You have made changes in your life and are in the process of becoming a better person. By looking at her responses, she is starting to second guess herself. You want her to change right now. Not possible. But, you can look at this as an opportunity to develop your manhood and, regardless of what she does, be who you have the potential to be whether that be for her or for someone else. I just encourage you to not give up. Stay in the fight for a little while longer. Give it some time. Sometimes when you are in the battle, you can't see the big picture. What do you want your life to look like in 10 years? If you want your daughter to have the home you always wanted, it is so worth it to see if things can change over the next 6 months-9 months. 

I'm telling you that my wife is completely different than she was a year ago. I'm dealing with a ton of the same issues you have. However, fortunately for me, my wife is going to therapy. I am seeing things change slowly. Stay with it. You never know what tomorrow could bring. Your family could develop a big time appreciation for you and that includes your wife.


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## peace

Dedicated2Her said:


> "She has not done the all night thing anymore, but I`m sure she is will soon."
> 
> Peace, I'm going to be totally frank here. I think you have an opportunity to save your marriage. You have made changes in your life and are in the process of becoming a better person. By looking at her responses, she is starting to second guess herself. You want her to change right now. Not possible. But, you can look at this as an opportunity to develop your manhood and, regardless of what she does, be who you have the potential to be whether that be for her or for someone else. I just encourage you to not give up. Stay in the fight for a little while longer. Give it some time. Sometimes when you are in the battle, you can't see the big picture. What do you want your life to look like in 10 years? If you want your daughter to have the home you always wanted, it is so worth it to see if things can change over the next 6 months-9 months.
> 
> I'm telling you that my wife is completely different than she was a year ago. I'm dealing with a ton of the same issues you have. However, fortunately for me, my wife is going to therapy. I am seeing things change slowly. Stay with it. You never know what tomorrow could bring. Your family could develop a big time appreciation for you and that includes your wife.


Thank you for your input,
However, I have a lot of resentment and trust issues at hand. I can`t cope with the fact that she has done so much harm to me. If I deserved it, for being a prick and many other things. I would have to put up or shut up and try to make things work. Instead, she has not shown that she cares for me for that matter. I truly believe that it takes two to make things work in a marriage, both have to be in the same page for a marriage to work. In my case, my wife has always had issues regarding telling me the truth about things. I do not know really what she wants anymore because I can not get a straight answer from her. She is accountable for all she has put me through abd she will regret it one day.


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## Dedicated2Her

I'm sure she will regret it. All I am saying is that YOU have resentment and YOU can't cope. Stay in therapy and take care of the things you can. I'm just curious as to why 6-9 months of therapy for yourself and dedicated effort absolutely, positively won't pay off. Forgiveness is an absolute necessity for you to be able to be happy and move forward in life and possibly to your next relationship. Just trying to help, bro. I hope you work it out in the best way for the good of you both.

I just don't want YOU to regret it. This will affect the rest of your life, and it will have an effect on your daughter. Cope with your resentment BEFORE filing for divorce. It will help keep things in perspective and easier for everyone involved if, in fact, that is what ends up happening.


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## turnera

You know, you have said 'she will regret it one day' at least 20 times in this thread. Yet here you are. 

Make a decision and stick with it.


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## peace

turnera said:


> You know, you have said 'she will regret it one day' at least 20 times in this thread. Yet here you are.
> 
> Make a decision and stick with it.


Yes, I have to repeat it! because she has been selfish and disrespectful. I have been sticking to my plan, this has been the toughest thing I have ever had to deal with. I am filing next week!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Dedicated2Her said:


> I'm sure she will regret it. All I am saying is that YOU have resentment and YOU can't cope. Stay in therapy and take care of the things you can. I'm just curious as to why 6-9 months of therapy for yourself and dedicated effort absolutely, positively won't pay off. Forgiveness is an absolute necessity for you to be able to be happy and move forward in life and possibly to your next relationship. Just trying to help, bro. I hope you work it out in the best way for the good of you both.
> 
> I just don't want YOU to regret it. This will affect the rest of your life, and it will have an effect on your daughter. Cope with your resentment BEFORE filing for divorce. It will help keep things in perspective and easier for everyone involved if, in fact, that is what ends up happening.


I can't thank you enough for your support. It has and will be a tough decision to make, however, I have to do what is right. I can't see myself in this situation three years from now. I have done more than what any spouse would do to save a marriage. However, her being the problem and does not want to be part of solution makes me go ahead and move on. I have forgiven her many times in the past already, and it got me no where.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## typewittyusernamehere

I am agree with what Dedicated2Her is saying, and it is totally understandable to be going back and forth with emotions about a decisions like divorce, it's not like it's a small decision to make, it's one of the biggest decisions you will ever make. &&& you can say whatever you want, how many times you want, and still "be here" make sure it's what you want.


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## 8yearscheating

Your decision. I stuck with it even though it A lasted 20 years. I know all about the trust issue. Lay out to her precisely what you need to even try. You might be very surprised. Worth a shot. If you make it like my wife and I are, you be very glad you did
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

typewittyusernamehere said:


> I am agree with what Dedicated2Her is saying, and it is totally understandable to be going back and forth with emotions about a decisions like divorce, it's not like it's a small decision to make, it's one of the biggest decisions you will ever make. &&& you can say whatever you want, how many times you want, and still "be here" make sure it's what you want.


You are right about it being the biggest decision I will ever make, this was something I did not want. However, my wife pushed me too far and has left me with no other choice.


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## peace

8yearscheating said:


> Your decision. I stuck with it even though it A lasted 20 years. I know all about the trust issue. Lay out to her precisely what you need to even try. You might be very surprised. Worth a shot. If you make it like my wife and I are, you be very glad you did
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I laid out everything to her, she knows how I feel and what I stand for. I told her a month ago that we must seek a MC in order for us to re-connect. She refused, I took that as a way for her to drift away from what really is going on. She does not want to be to blame here and her actions show that.


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## Conrad

peace said:


> I laid out everything to her, she knows how I feel and what I stand for. I told her a month ago that we must seek a MC in order for us to re-connect. She refused, I took that as a way for her to drift away from what really is going on. She does not want to be to blame here and her actions show that.


Man up.

Make the appointment. Tell her when it is.

If she doesn't show, you go alone.


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## peace

Conrad said:


> Man up.
> 
> Make the appointment. Tell her when it is.
> 
> If she doesn't show, you go alone.


I have been going alone!


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## Conrad

peace said:


> I have been going alone!


Important to schedule a joint counseling session anyway.


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## F-102

Of course, if you schedule joint sessions, and she refuses to go, you can have that held against her.


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## peace

F-102 said:


> Of course, if you schedule joint sessions, and she refuses to go, you can have that held against her.


Exactly! She has refused, so I went on my own anyway for my therapy to get a grip with myself.


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## golfergirl

peace said:


> Exactly! She has refused, so I went on my own anyway for my therapy to get a grip with myself.


Late to the game but I just want to bring forth a couple statements. You seem to place all the blame on her. Well from fresh eyes it seems like she had a few late nights with a work buddy but doesn't do it anymore. How often did she go? How long since last time she did this? It may have been innocent girl talk and time got away - it bothered you - she quit. I don't go out at night but I've had 6 hour coffee visits with girlfriends because we were having such fun. The conversation was funny and light and witty and time got away. I'm a nuturer and I don't like being away from my kids like you - she may not be wired that way. Lots of dads think nothing of golfing, hunting whatever for extended periods of time - away from family. People are different - wouldn't work for me or you but fine for them. I understand she isn't opening up - but a fresh perspective is she thinks things are fixed - she quit doing what you didn't like so she wonders why things don't get back to normal. The rest of the talk is her saving face and thinking she's calling your bluff. While everyone has different deal breakers, your reaction to what happened is a little extreme in my opinion. Unless I missed a page and an affair was discovered. Take care just slow down - nothing has to be decided in a day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

golfergirl said:


> Late to the game but I just want to bring forth a couple statements. You seem to place all the blame on her. Well from fresh eyes it seems like she had a few late nights with a work buddy but doesn't do it anymore. How often did she go? How long since last time she did this? It may have been innocent girl talk and time got away - it bothered you - she quit. I don't go out at night but I've had 6 hour coffee visits with girlfriends because we were having such fun. The conversation was funny and light and witty and time got away. I'm a nuturer and I don't like being away from my kids like you - she may not be wired that way. Lots of dads think nothing of golfing, hunting whatever for extended periods of time - away from family. People are different - wouldn't work for me or you but fine for them. I understand she isn't opening up - but a fresh perspective is she thinks things are fixed - she quit doing what you didn't like so she wonders why things don't get back to normal. The rest of the talk is her saving face and thinking she's calling your bluff. While everyone has different deal breakers, your reaction to what happened is a little extreme in my opinion. Unless I missed a page and an affair was discovered. Take care just slow down - nothing has to be decided in a day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



That being said, I'm an avoider too. I don't like a lot of fight or confrontation - if point is valid, I change behavior and go on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Great point, one I've been thinking but couldn't verbalize. All I hear from you is how she has to pay.

What is SHE thinking?


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## peace

She went out last night and came back at five this morning. She has been selfish all this time and it was a matter of time befoe she would pull another one. That is why she does not want to seek a MC with me. She wants her cake and eat it as well. I'm filing this week without any further delay. If she wanted to come around she would have given an effort, I have been very patient and assertive with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peace

Is it normal to feel down and hard to swallow even though I have done all I could to prevent a divorce. I feel very weird today knowing that I have to do what I never thought I would be facing. Gathering all the house papers and all the stuff that I have to bring to start the process has really made me week. I wished this did not lead to this, however, she has given up without a fight. I spoke to her father and sister today and they are really sad and hurt that their daughter/sister has done this without being up-front with me. They both hugged me and told me that I have been a great husband and father. I did not want to cry but I did, we are all very close and this is really causing more grief. It will be tough going to co parenting classes and sending my daughter to therapy. I am out of words right now, I would have loved trying to get us into therapy to try to fix this only if she was upto it.


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