# First Divorce Review in 2 days could use advice



## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

Hello TAM, It's been a long time! Over the last 6 months things have been great. I met a woman (4 years my junior, instead of 15+ haha) and we have a healthy and fun relationship.
As for my EX, things have been very congenial between the two of us. However, in 2 days I have a feeling that's gonna change.

We have our first review coming up since our divorce back in 2012 and I'm not sure what to expect. She would be on the phone for this review since she leaves in Minnesota while the kids and I are still in Houston. I'll be at the OAG office discussing child support and insurance amounts.

There's a couple of things I want changed and I feel they are reasonable:
1. Child support is finally set to the state standard. She low-balled me during mediation and I fought with her to bring it up, but ultimately it was never at the state standard at mediation.Plus, she just started a new job at the time so the amount she was/is sending me is much lower than what the state recommends. I'm estimating she's paying $250-300 dollars a month less than the standard now. And since my mortgage has increased due to local property taxes, etc by an extra $200+ a month and kids who are about to enter their teen years, I feel it's best to ask now.

2. Summer visitations. She requested 60 days in the summer for the decree which I agreed to since she lived so far away. Turns out that's practically the kids' entire summer vacation and she just bought a home so she has no intentions on coming back to live close to the kids. I would like it reset to the state's standard of 42 days so I can spend some vacation time with my kids.

That's it for changes. Is this unreasonable? I feel it's fair to tell her before the review, but now I'm not so sure. Do I wait till the review to tell her my intentions, or tell her the day before? 

Either way she'll be angry and I'd prefer to say or explain it in a way so she could understand why and not be so pissed. But I know better. So any suggestions on how to handle a review?


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

Hmm I don't know a lot about visitation (wasn't an issue in my divorce) but my lawyer always told me to frame all requests in response to facts. 

For the first one I would just crunch the numbers and literally show her an excel spreadsheet. No emotional arguments, "I feel", "I need" etc. 

On the second issue, for example, you could say "Since you will have the kids on several family holidays over the summer, including Memorial Day and 4th of July I would like an additional xyz days to offset the difference."

I would wait until the review. The element of surprise and a fair and balanced argument should work in your favor.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Ask yourself this. If she had the kids and you paid child support, do you think there's a snowballs chance in hell you'd get out of paying at least the minimum by the state?

You don't even have to go to court for that, just walk into the family support office and ask for a modification. Those people love seeing involved dads because they deal with selfish crack wh*res all day.

The summer thing you agreed to, so you'll have to work with her on that. I'd discuss and agree on it first before you bring up child support as you're going to piss her off at that point. Might even want to talk to the family support office in your county first, see if you'd get a modification, and then not even bring it up to her on the phone.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Both requests sound pretty reasonable. In my state, we wait 18 months to review support. At that time, you just bring in the figures and there you go.
The visitation is a bit more difficult since that hasn't really changed. It will be more difficult for mom to enforce the existing order as the kids get older and have summer jobs, etc. Could you ask for one week vacation time during her summer visitation?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

As far as the money goes, you should request it, no question.

Regarding the vacation, what do your kids want?

If they spend that long period of time with her what will they do?

Do they have sports interests?


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

Hey everyone. Appreciate your responses.
So yeah, the financial thing is a no brainer and I'm determined to get that.
I haven't spoken with the kids but that's a great suggestion and I'll talk to them tonight. They do sports with me during the school year and when they see their mom for the summer, she'll sign them up for a week long class for soccer or the zoo. But most of the time they just hang out at her place. 

So I definitely want to adjust the summer so they're with me for a week or two more. I like to travel and I would love to show them so many things the world has to offer. Weekends during the school year with the kids are great, but doesn't afford me lots of travel, unless you're talking about the travel channel. haha
And I'll definitely keep the emotional part out of it. Strictly business and financial. I appreciate everyone here taking the time to chime in and offer their advice. I'd buy you guys a cold one if you're ever in H-town.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Houstondad said:


> Hey everyone. Appreciate your responses.
> So yeah, the financial thing is a no brainer and I'm determined to get that.
> I haven't spoken with the kids but that's a great suggestion and I'll talk to them tonight. They do sports with me during the school year and when they see their mom for the summer, she'll sign them up for a week long class for soccer or the zoo. But most of the time they just hang out at her place.
> 
> ...


*HD: Is your court of jurisdiction in (Harris County)Texas? If so, is it in a family, county, or district court setting?*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hi HoustonDad, I was wonder how you are doing these days. Sounds like things are going pretty well.

If she has not asked before the hearing, wait for the hearing. For all you know she has some big bomb she'll lower on you for the hearing as well.

The changes that you are requesting make sense. There is no reason why she should not be paying the state guidelines. So ask for what the state says you should be getting. It can always be negotiated, but do not ask for less to start with.

Your request for splitting the summers more equitably makes sense as well. You need that time with your children.. some time that is not you just getting the kids off to school, doing homework, etc.

I hope it all goes well.


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

UPDATE:
Hey friendly TAM posters. So we had the review today. I learned it was only for CS and Insurance. I'll have to set up a separate meeting to discuss visitation.
So, the clerk/mediator had my ex on the phone and we crunched some numbers. I learned she has a new job in her company and that her CS would be going up considerably compared to the less than standard I had been receiving. Then the stalling and low-balling began.

I was shocked to learn from the clerk that aside from state taxes that are taken from her check that my EX could also "deduct" travel expenses from her GROSS before the 25% for CS is calculated from her NET. I was pissed to say the least because it was her choice to move away, not because of her job or any thing like that. It's like I and the state is supporting her to live far away from our kids!

An attorney in the office told me that as long as she travels down to see them or flies them up, that she is entitled to deduct that from her gross pay. Unfortunately, I nor my EX was prepared with submitting numbers because neither one of us was aware of this. So she came up with a travel expense # that seemed too high to me so I countered with what I thought was right (which was less than her amount). My EX then suggested 20% instead of the standard 25% and I said no.

So I ended up having to reschedule next week so my EX can send them the travel expenses from last year so they can deduct it from her gross. Un-frickin-real. It's just so disappointing because I've been shorted all these years and I'm just asking for the standard. I'm seeking what's right and fair. Nothing more, nothing less. And she is still trying to find ways to lower it. She's only hurting her kids by doing this as if her living far away isn't hurtful enough. 
Has anyone ever heard of travel being deducted to lower CS?
Sigh....vent over...


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

EX just called me 5 minutes ago to ask why I seemed mad in our review today. Should have never answered the phone. But like a dumb ass, I did.

I played it cool and just said that there's nothing fun about divorce and that it brought up old memories from our first mediation. 

She went on to brag (in a slightly subtle way) on the amount of airfare travel costs over the last few years and that it appears it's more than she anticipated. In other words, she gets to pay even less CS than what she had thought. I could tell from the excitement in her voice and it just made me feel like a fool. I've never bitten my tongue as hard as I did and just told her that we'll discuss everything when we wrap up the review next week. 

I wanted to tell her she's a cheap ass and refuses to take full responsibility in paying/supporting our kids. That her father is still financially supporting her air travel among other things, but I have no hard evidence to prove this. That she will do anything to lessen her responsibility financially in CS while she makes another visit to her local liquor store. That it makes me sick that she's so excited to find a ****ed up loophole that allows her to shrink her CS because she has decided to live far away. No guarantees on if my venting is over anytime soon. I want to beat the hell out of my punching bag. I want to scream out loud. I am on the verge of crying even. Just shocked and angry. That despite going into today's review with no intentions of backing down, it was the state of Texas who let me down with it's travel loophole.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

HD

My Ex doesn't even see one of our kids.. 
When she left I paid her child support and the kids lived with me and never left.. She took the check gleefully and never said *"Look, the kids live with you. Just keep it or let me write you a check back. That is only fair"*

I had to take her to court to stop payments.. I wasn't even asking for child support.. The judge offered me support.

She started paying me 208 a month and now it was raised to 1350 a month starting March.. I was happy getting 208 and extremely excited about getting 1350 because it's better than the 700 a month I paid her for doing absolutely NOTHING.. 

Look anger is good, it means you are moving on.. 

Lessons learned, next time go to a lawyer and get some info before going to mediation. Maybe then you would have known this and took the 20% CS and the travel sh!t would have not been brought up.. But in the end its the law and no one is looking to screw you over.. Try to remember these things are in place because back in the day many deadbeat dads didn't pay sh!t.. My dad was on of those guys.. 

But in the end karma bites everyone on the a$$.. 

Look my Ex was told find a full time job.. She didn't.. She brings home 1800 a month maybe part time and she has to pay me 1350 out of it.. Mind you my income has no play on CS and I will be hopefully making over 200k a year in the near future.. Whereas my EX wife at the age of 50 will have to work and pay me child support until she is 62 or 63.. My mom started collecting her social security check at 62.. 

This sh!t all fvcks them in the end. Just have some patience.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Houstondad, I'm sorry. Dealing with my own deadbeat ex and it just burns.
Since she is out of state (her choice), and you have primary custody could you suggest that rather than reducing her monthly support to you because of travel, that the two of you agree to split the travel in proportion to your respective incomes? That would keep your monthly payments higher and still keep the bulk of the obligation on her.
How often does she fly them to her state?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Three things I noticed from your post. One, you don't have a lawyer. Two, you're begging and pleading when realistically you hold all the cards and she has virtually no leverage over you. Three, you don't have a lawyer.

Guess what, you're in family court. You think her father is paying for her tickets? Ask for financial disclosure, make her show you her bank deposits. Unless he gave her hundreds of dollars in cash you're going to see checks to her account (which you can argue is unreported income) or she won't be able to provide receipts for the airfare. End of story.

Moral: When you save money on lawyers, you steal money from yourself.

You're going to a gun fight with a spit-ball


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I agree with COGuy regarding an attorney. Especially since they are very young right now. You have lots of time to recoup the expense.

As to the travel, consider some things that influenced that and counter. Did she book it last minute? Did she take direct flights? Does she drive a gas hog if she drove? 

Look up the flights and come up with a median price for a flight with a connection booked well in advance. Print those off to have as evidence of the figures. If she drives, argue gas prices have decreased or her choice of vehicle and use the average federal price per mile and see which favors you.

And of course figure out the number of trips based on the custody arrangement and do the math. Does she live with a guy? I seem to recall she was with someone but it wasn't a solid relationship - just wondering if his income has a bearing on her support. Can you get compensation in arrears? It doesn't hurt to drop the figure in the court's "ear". Figure out the minimum, the shortage and multiply by the time and point out that she has already shortchanged the kids by $X thousand dollars. Will it have any bearing? No. But it might just influence the mediator to sway the figures a bit to your side of things regarding travel costs.

And like COGuy said, if you know someone else paid for her trips, drop that nugget, too.

Sorry you are struggling with this, HD. I know you are doing your best. In my state, the parent who moves bears the burden of transportation and can't deduct it from C.S.

PS - the other reason for the attorney - there may be some case law where exceptions to the transportation thing have been ruled on in the other direction. It's worth doing an internet search.


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

I am going to inquire with a new lawyer. I just thought that this was going to be a piece of cake asking for the minimum and then the state does her a favor with the travel expense deduction. 
My original lawyer who handled my case wanted it to be done and over with so I'm going with someone who will take care of me.

Looks like Texas has that option for travel expenses. What I'm wondering and hope the lawyer could answer is:
1. Can a parent still deduct travel expenses from their gross pay even if they relocated on their own personal accord and not because of their job?

It looks like her deduction is going to save her $80 a month. But I wouldn't want to share the cost of flying the kids 4x a year as an alternative. Especially if she's spending over $5000.

And I would like a review of her receipts and bank accounts. If I'm right and she's receiving monetary gifts from her father, it might work in my favor. I do know he gave her over 7 grand as a downpayment for her house that she purchased up in Minnesota. 

I like the other advice you guys have. Definitely going to consider using it. I've got nothing to lose by trying.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I've never heard of deducting travel costs from gross pay before calculating child support. I guess I learned something new here today.

In some cases I can see it, but in your case it's nonsense. She's been a piece of work this whole time.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Don't go for the minimum if you can get more. It's not greedy, it's fair. If the standard calculation allows you more, go for it. Besides, you don't know how the pendulum will swing on the travel expense. The kids deserve it.

I don't know if the parents helping will hurt you or help. She can argue she couldn't afford those trips because of paying support, etc. but that the grandparents wanted to see the kids. Could become a sob story.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Houstondad said:


> And I would like a review of her receipts and bank accounts. If I'm right and she's receiving monetary gifts from her father, it might work in my favor. I do know he gave her over 7 grand as a downpayment for her house that she purchased up in Minnesota.


Get a lawyer, a shark one that charges a lot. The odds that you personally can pull that off in a court without screwing it up is slim to none. A shark will go after her with a vengeance. If she's getting regular gifts from family a good lawyer will work to treat it as income. Even the discussion of that will provoke fear, uncertainty, and doubt, which should help you in settlement negotiations.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

A court may consider other factors to determine if applying the guidelines would be unjust or inappropriate in a particular case. Those factors include:
•the child's age and needs;
•the parent's ability to contribute to the child's support;
•any financial resources available for the child support;
•the Obligee's (person receiving child support) net resources and earning potential;
•child care expenses;
•whether either party has actual physical custody of another child;
•the amount of alimony or spousal maintenance;
•the child's educational expenses;
•employee benefits such as housing or a company car;
•health insurance and uninsured medical expenses for the child;
•extraordinary educational, healthcare or other expenses of the child;
•*travel expenses incurred to exercise visitation;*
•positive or negative cash flow from real or personal property, and assets like businesses or investments;
•any other reason consistent with the best interest of the child,
• taking into consideration the circumstances of the parents.

Texas Family Code, Section 154.123.


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

Hey everyone,
I agree Elegirl that despite it being a factor (i found it online too Sammy64), it should be nonsense in my case because she left the kids.

And in case some of you don't know, the kids grandfather (her dad) lives 15 minutes from me while my mom is 20 minutes away. We have aunts and uncles here in the Houston area. So it's the kids' mom who left the family.

By the way, she left a message on my phone tonight. Says she doesn't want to meet next week anymore. Feels her and I were rushed into this review and would rather wait for our " 3 year review" (which is in June)to discuss things. Unreal. I don't want to wait that long to discuss CS and visitation. Also, what if I am awarded an increase in CS in March. Would there be retroactive payments to January?

I've got red flags. Could be
1. Just delaying an increase in CS payments.
2. Getting either her ducks in a row or a lawyer to challenge me at the 3 yr review. Possibly get the kids.

I definitely don't trust her and her wanting to cancel next week's meeting is fishy.

As for her getting the kids, unless she moves back down here I just don't see her getting the kids. Any decent judge who is looking out for the best interests of the kids would keep them with a stable parent who is surrounded by family....I would assume.


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