# Trying to be more honest with myself



## TerriblyNiceGuy (10 mo ago)

I've been thinking about posting here for quite a while now, and I hope I can get everything out that I need to, so I can hopefully get some advise. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I think am a terrible person for thinking and feeling the way I have been for the past month or so. I haven't been able to shake these feelings and it's honestly freaking me out.

I am in the "nice guy" category. Always have been. My mom has told me I was always very compliant as a kid too. I've always thought that being the nice guy was how I was supposed to be. I've been trying to dig into my past over the last few years to try and figure out why I am the way I am because I am not happy with where I am in my life. I'm 37 and I've been married for 16 years, have 2 kids (12, 5), and have a good career where I am well respected make decent money. 

My marriage at this point has been sexless for just about 6 years now and it's really starting to get to me. I think my wife and I both have played a part in getting to this point but I have always placed most of the blame on myself because that's just what I always do, even if thats not healthy. I always feel like I have to make up for something and that she is on the verge of leaving at my next screw up. I've felt like this for years. 

For my side of things, I do have a problem with porn. It's been a part of my life since the first time my friends and I found Penthouse magazines that an old guy down the street had thrown out in a white trash bag when we were 10ish years old. My dad had a porn problem too. I discovered the image cache files from the sites he visited on the computer. Still not sure how I found those in the first place. I didn't know anything about computers at the time. Obviously as the internet progressed I found my own porn sites and I have stopped here and there over the years but I've never been able to really kick that addiction. I really think I've been damaged, maybe permanently, by porn. I don't think I've ever been able to look at a woman the way I'm supposed to and not constantly be judging how hot she is and wonder if I have a shot with her. My wife has discovered my porn problem several times over the years and it's always been a very emotional whenever that topic has come up. I understand that it hurts her, and I have sought out help in the past for it but because of how much I feel like it hurts her when it comes out again I usually try and lie (stupid, I know) and deny it which probably hurts her even more because she wouldn't bring it up without evidence. I feel shame, and I hate myself for not being able to fully get away from this addiction.

I constantly feel like I am one thing away from her leaving me. Even if it's not porn that breaks the camels back. I feel like it could be anything. She blames me for her low self esteem. I'm not a real affectionate person and she wants more of that from me but I have always wanted that from her and had told her that while we were dating online and I thought that would translate into marriage. We didn't have sex for several months after we got married. She was a virgin and we both are Christians and I think we both were kind of made to believe sex was really bad unless you are married, her more so than me. She would freak out whenever we were just about to have sex and I would back off and tell her it was OK and we could try again another day. At the time I really was ok with that and just wanted to make her feel comfortable with me. I think that was a mistake on my part to not push more but I'm not really sure. Over the years our sex life has never been consistent and she has never been more adventurous and even recently when she told me she doesn't think I like her or am attracted to her she has said as much. And that may just be that she doesn't feel free and confident enough in herself to explore, but it really doesn't matter because our sex life is dead and has been for a long time.

I've never said this out loud to anyone, but I am not emotionally or physically attracted to her anymore. I feel like she has slowly turned me into a male version of herself. Fearful, full of anxiety and worry about every little thing that could ever maybe, possibly go wrong. When we first met, I was carefree and let just about everything roll off my back. Now I'm wrestling back my sanity from being worried about everything all the time. Because of being the nice guy who has a porn problem I always feel like I have to make up for that and can't say no to her, ever. And I don't. I can't remember the last time she suggested anything and I didn't immediately tell her yes. She orders whatever she feels she needs and I feel like I have to ask permission to buy anything. She always can justify whatever she does because she thinks through everything so perfectly and thoughtfully that obviously her idea is the best. She can always always out maneuver me in any argument we may have, which doesn't come often because I don't even try to engage because I have the conversation in my head and I always lose. I hate who I am. I have allowed myself to be pushed into the beta box that I feel keeps getting smaller and smaller. I am so sick of feeling like this and want to break out from where I am but I am afraid because she does NOT like it when I try and take charge of anything she has control over. 

I have felt several times in the past few years that if we didn't have kids I would probably have called it quits already with her. She will not go to counseling to try and fix out problems because she is too prideful and doesn't want anyone knowing our business at all ever. She also thinks I look to other people to help too much. And maybe I do because it's easier but I think there is an equal issue with never wanting any help. 

I have no friends and no outside life at all. We haven't been to church in years either, which I don't like but I'm afraid to go on my own because it might hurt her. I literally have no one to bounce anything off of. My dad passed in 2020, and I never had the relationship with him I always hoped I would. I certainly am not bringing this up with her dad even if he and i have a pretty good relationship.

I cannot shake the feeling of wanting out of this marriage and it makes me feel like a horrible person. I do not want to destroy my kids lives with a divorce but I am really unhappy in my marriage. 

I hope someone can make sense of this post and offer me some advise. My posts tend to be to longer than they probably need to be but I needed to get all this out and it may not be all of it, but I need to try to figure all of this out.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I've been thinking about posting here for quite a while now, and I hope I can get everything out that I need to, so I can hopefully get some advise. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I think am a terrible person for thinking and feeling the way I have been for the past month or so. I haven't been able to shake these feelings and it's honestly freaking me out.


Well you can only do the best you can, given what you know and are capable of at the time, so you would do well to appreciate that and not beat yourself up over being who you are.



> I am in the "nice guy" category. Always have been. My mom has told me I was always very compliant as a kid too. I've always thought that being the nice guy was how I was supposed to be. I've been trying to dig into my past over the last few years to try and figure out why I am the way I am because I am not happy with where I am in my life. I'm 37 and I've been married for 16 years, have 2 kids (12, 5), and have a good career where I am well respected make decent money.


Cool, for the abridged version if you're not happy the only solution for that is stop participating in doing things that don't make you happy.



> My marriage at this point has been sexless for just about 6 years now and it's really starting to get to me. I think my wife and I both have played a part in getting to this point but I have always placed most of the blame on myself because that's just what I always do, even if thats not healthy. I always feel like I have to make up for something and that she is on the verge of leaving at my next screw up. I've felt like this for years.


I'm sorry it has taken six years for it to get to you. Given your marital relationship, her leaving you would actually set you free while letting you not take any action to afford yourself release.



> For my side of things, I do have a problem with porn. It's been a part of my life since the first time my friends and I found Penthouse magazines that an old guy down the street had thrown out in a white trash bag when we were 10ish years old. My dad had a porn problem too. I discovered the image cache files from the sites he visited on the computer. Still not sure how I found those in the first place. I didn't know anything about computers at the time. Obviously as the internet progressed I found my own porn sites and I have stopped here and there over the years but I've never been able to really kick that addiction. I really think I've been damaged, maybe permanently, by porn. I don't think I've ever been able to look at a woman the way I'm supposed to and not constantly be judging how hot she is and wonder if I have a shot with her. My wife has discovered my porn problem several times over the years and it's always been a very emotional whenever that topic has come up. I understand that it hurts her, and I have sought out help in the past for it but because of how much I feel like it hurts her when it comes out again I usually try and lie (stupid, I know) and deny it which probably hurts her even more because she wouldn't bring it up without evidence. I feel shame, and I hate myself for not being able to fully get away from this addiction.


If porn is holding you back from dumping your wife and seeking others to share sex with, then give it a rest. Otherwise tell your wife to get over herself, and that you'll look at it and or masturbate however you like.



> I constantly feel like I am one thing away from her leaving me. Even if it's not porn that breaks the camels back. I feel like it could be anything. She blames me for her low self esteem. I'm not a real affectionate person and she wants more of that from me but I have always wanted that from her and had told her that while we were dating online and I thought that would translate into marriage. We didn't have sex for several months after we got married. She was a virgin and we both are Christians and I think we both were kind of made to believe sex was really bad unless you are married, her more so than me. She would freak out whenever we were just about to have sex and I would back off and tell her it was OK and we could try again another day. At the time I really was ok with that and just wanted to make her feel comfortable with me. I think that was a mistake on my part to not push more but I'm not really sure. Over the years our sex life has never been consistent and she has never been more adventurous and even recently when she told me she doesn't think I like her or am attracted to her she has said as much. And that may just be that she doesn't feel free and confident enough in herself to explore, but it really doesn't matter because our sex life is dead and has been for a long time.


Well at least she's been consistent, I'm sorry you settled for it.



> I've never said this out loud to anyone, but I am not emotionally or physically attracted to her anymore. I feel like she has slowly turned me into a male version of herself. Fearful, full of anxiety and worry about every little thing that could ever maybe, possibly go wrong. When we first met, I was carefree and let just about everything roll off my back. Now I'm wrestling back my sanity from being worried about everything all the time. Because of being the nice guy who has a porn problem I always feel like I have to make up for that and can't say no to her, ever. And I don't. I can't remember the last time she suggested anything and I didn't immediately tell her yes. She orders whatever she feels she needs and I feel like I have to ask permission to buy anything. She always can justify whatever she does because she thinks through everything so perfectly and thoughtfully that obviously her idea is the best. She can always always out maneuver me in any argument we may have, which doesn't come often because I don't even try to engage because I have the conversation in my head and I always lose. I hate who I am. I have allowed myself to be pushed into the beta box that I feel keeps getting smaller and smaller. I am so sick of feeling like this and want to break out from where I am but I am afraid because she does NOT like it when I try and take charge of anything she has control over.


Your wife treats you the way she does. because you let her treat you that way. That said if you don't like her then do yourself and her the favour of ending your marriage.



> I have felt several times in the past few years that if we didn't have kids I would probably have called it quits already with her. She will not go to counseling to try and fix out problems because she is too prideful and doesn't want anyone knowing our business at all ever. She also thinks I look to other people to help too much. And maybe I do because it's easier but I think there is an equal issue with never wanting any help.


That feeling ought to be enough to see you act on this, and call an end to this. Seriously your wife has no desire to share a sexual relationship with you, which is why she doesn't want to fix this, since to her this is not a problem.



> I have no friends and no outside life at all. We haven't been to church in years either, which I don't like but I'm afraid to go on my own because it might hurt her. I literally have no one to bounce anything off of. My dad passed in 2020, and I never had the relationship with him I always hoped I would. I certainly am not bringing this up with her dad even if he and i have a pretty good relationship.


Do you fear you can't make friends outside? Since even if you do, taking those steps and putting yourself out there can help you a lot. You are not alone in your experience, so I am sure that you can connect with other people in a positive way.

And yes I concur, it's probably not a good idea to tell another man his daughter is a frigid shrew.



> I cannot shake the feeling of wanting out of this marriage and it makes me feel like a horrible person. I do not want to destroy my kids lives with a divorce but I am really unhappy in my marriage.


I suspect this is part of an argument you tell yourself, for justifying your volunteering for more misery. At the end of the day though if you choose to paint yourself into a corner of I won't end my marriage, well you will get exactly what you have already been getting all along.



> I hope someone can make sense of this post and offer me some advise. My posts tend to be to longer than they probably need to be but I needed to get all this out and it may not be all of it, but I need to try to figure all of this out.


The thing is no one can save you from yourself and the decisions you make, we can't magic your wife into someone who wants to share a sex life with you. You can pray, do handstand and twist yourself into a pretzel all you like, yet that will not resolve this.

Sometimes the simple answer to facing a sexless sexual relationship like yours that let's face it won't be fixed, is to let them go and seek a sexual connection with others. Which requires actual action that you drive yourself, otherwise your musings on this are a waste of time (which becomes less as you get older and older).


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Since you understand that you are a Nice Guy, I will assume that you have read and reread Glover's book No More Mr. Nice Guy. If you have then you should understand the concept behind the code words "Get a Life."

It is very clear that you need to Get a Life. 

Let me tell you about how I became a more integrated man and my Get a Life program. I started doing endurance events. I started gradually. First I trained for a 5K run. There are lots of couch to 5 K training programs. Find one and start it. My suggestion is to incorporate your training with one or all of your children. From 5K's to moved to 10K's and then half marathons. I also started bicycling and did 20 mile, then 40 mile, then 100 mile or "century" club rides. I actually did a double century (2 day, 200 mile ride with my oldest son). We actually trained for it together.

I spent time in the gym working out and loosing weight.

Another part of my Get a Life was to restart some sports I gave up early in my marriage. They included mountain climbing, backpacking and hiking. My wife wanted nothing to do with these, which was fine and her loss. Instead I did some with my kids. Still another activity I gave up early in my marriage was shooting sports. I got back into target shooting and hand loading, as well as hunting. 

All of this changed how I looked in that I lost a lot of weight. It also impacted my confidence. I was much more confident and proud of my accomplishments. Nothing like finishing a 15K race as first in my age class to give you some pride and make your wife look at you a lot differently. 

In short she was seeing that I was changing and leaving her behind. She saw that I was doing things and becoming closer to our children in ways that she just couldn't. It changed how she viewed me and it provided me with new friends, new pride and self-confidence that was not related to anything my wife said or valued, along with a sense of accomplishment. She started to see me as a "man" who could be independent of her.

Your post screams to me that you need to log off your computer and work on Getting a Life.

Good luck.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Why not see a therapist for yourself, to work on things you can change about yourself?

What do you get, if anything, from being passive, if you are? How does that keep you stuck where you are, if it does?

Regardless of how you got here, here you are. And you can start choosing differently, learn to do the things that improve the quality of your life and relationships, and do them.

Work on becoming the best version of you. Other things will start to become clearer, change in response to you changing, and/or become easier to act on.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The advantage you have is you clearly recognize the problem. You have molded your entire existence around your wife which is a terrible idea. Don’t get me wrong… porn isn’t a great idea but don’t let her convince you that it has turned you into a broken person. That is just another control weapon she has in her tool kit. You really need to get some balls and stop giving a phuck what everyone else thinks. If you aren’t willing to live your best life then that’s on you. While your wife might have a big part in this the truth is that you arrived at this place by your own doing.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

First thing to do is get back to church. Join a men's group there and make friends.
Ok so she may not like it but so what? As Christians it's what we are supposed to do. You will get help and support and guidance there. Hopefully some help to stop the porn as well. 

Make going to MC a condition of you staying in the marriage. If she won't go get some good therapy for yourself, preferably with a Christian counselor.
Take up a sport or hobby for your own well-being.


----------



## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I really think I've been damaged, maybe permanently, by porn. I don't think I've ever been able to look at a woman the way I'm supposed to and not constantly be judging how hot she is


This is really quite a statement here. I personally don't have issue with a partner using some porn on occasion, but the part that concerns me most is that you don't think you can look at a woman the way you're supposed to.



TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> She blames me for her low self esteem. I'm not a real affectionate person and she wants more of that from me but I have always wanted that from her and had told her that while we were dating online and I thought that would translate into marriage. We didn't have sex for several months after we got married. She was a virgin and we both are Christians and I think we both were kind of made to believe sex was really bad unless you are married, her more so than me. She would freak out whenever we were just about to have sex and I would back off and tell her it was OK and we could try again another day. At the time I really was ok with that and just wanted to make her feel comfortable with me. I think that was a mistake on my part to not push more but I'm not really sure. Over the years our sex life has never been consistent and she has never been more adventurous and even recently when she told me she doesn't think I like her or am attracted to her she has said as much. And that may just be that she doesn't feel free and confident enough in herself to explore, but it really doesn't matter because our sex life is dead and has been for a long time.



How much of your porn use could be adding to how your wife feels here? I'm not trying to make you feel guilty, but when I read both things together, it reads like you don't help your wife in feeling sexy. Most women have to feel it to want to to have sex. In some way, whether it's flirting, attraction or connection. Are you giving that?

So you say you are a nice guy because outside of this, you do as your wife asks, you feel like a beta. And you probably are. But you are objectifying other women and wondering why your wife has low self esteem. I understand she was a virgin before you married and then hasn't really enjoyed or valued sex since, but I haven't read how you helped your wife to grow sexually with you, to feel confident and secure with you that sex isn't the taboo subject she thought.

So now you do everything else your wife wishes because of your guilt, and personally I do feel based on what you've written that you have to own some of that.

If there is no way back for you now, the right thing to do is to end it and move on, but I wholly encourage you to deal with your porn addiction and how you view women before entering another relationship.


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I feel like she has slowly turned me into a male version of herself. Fearful, full of anxiety and worry about every little thing that could ever maybe, possibly go wrong


Lots of great thoughts from other posters that I won’t repeat, but this quite struck me.

Stop letting her (or anyone) tell you who you are. Grow a backbone, stand up and lead your marriage. Being passive, timid, ‘nice guy’, etc isn’t going to work. You’ll be right where you are wondering what happened to your life.

Work on your marriage, work on yourself first.

A TAM quote I read that stuck with me is this: “If you want your wife to be interested in you, then be interesting“. Ouch.

So get a life, be a man, go to church, lead your marriage. All great advice.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Just to add, start praying together daily.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

You are not "permanently damaged" by porn, not even by your wife. At any point you choose to, you can become different. You can become the man God intended you to be. This is a guarantee from His Holy Word, the bible. It is not in any way my opinion. It is HIS opinion.

The only opinion about you which matters at all, in this temporal life, or in the eternal life to come, is GOD'S opinion. Not your wife's, not some book author, not even yours. Although, from my observation of myself, over the last 38 years since He found me .... when I am HIS man, my opinion of myself is the best it can be.

When you meet God, He is not going to ask your wife. In fact, according to His word, the bible, He will tell your wife that HE did not make you to be what she wanted, that He made you according to HIS plan and that what she thinks about you is completely irrelevant to Him. If you needed any changing, HE would have done it.

Concentrate on HIS plan and aligning yourself with being HIS man.



TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> She blames me for her low self esteem.


Again....I'm not speaking to your wife.....but if I were, I would tell her the same thing I just told you..... that God is not going to ask you. You are not to blame for her low self-esteem. And, likewise unto you, she can find self-esteem in God's esteem.



TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I feel shame, and I hate myself for not being able to fully get away from this addiction.


Some folks have a ministry called "Every Man's Battle" ..... this is true for me, too. I must constantly reject ideas and thoughts which are misplaced. This becomes much, much harder when I recognize that my wife really doesn't want sex with me. She does it, as a matter of "duty", but it is unfulfilling and unsatisfying emotionally. But, then, porn won't satisfy what I need, either.

I once heard sin defined as "...trying to get your needs met in a way that won't meet your needs....".


----------



## TerriblyNiceGuy (10 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Lots of great thoughts from other posters that I won’t repeat, but this quite struck me.
> 
> Stop letting her (or anyone) tell you who you are. Grow a backbone, stand up and lead your marriage. Being passive, timid, ‘nice guy’, etc isn’t going to work. You’ll be right where you are wondering what happened to your life.
> 
> ...


This hits hard, but with the reading and soul searching I have been doing recently, this is more and more the conclusion I am coming to. And as much as I have been trying to pin down the reasons why I have become the way that I am, I don't think that knowing those small details really matters because they are in the past and I can't change anything that has happened. I can only make changes now to more towards a better future, and if she doesn't want to follow me (not that I am going to leave her behind on purpose, she has to make her choices too) then I can cross that bridge when I get there. I do want to be more interesting to be around so there is work to do in that area too.

Growing a backbone and leading is honestly a little scary for me because I hate to fail, or make decisions that people are upset with but being that way is the reason I am where I am so something has to give.


----------



## TerriblyNiceGuy (10 mo ago)

TJW said:


> You are not "permanently damaged" by porn, not even by your wife. At any point you choose to, you can become different. You can become the man God intended you to be. This is a guarantee from His Holy Word, the bible. It is not in any way my opinion. It is HIS opinion.


I hope to be able to be on the other side of porn and really see this is true. 



> Some folks have a ministry called "Every Man's Battle" ..... this is true for me, too. I must constantly reject ideas and thoughts which are misplaced. This becomes much, much harder when I recognize that my wife really doesn't want sex with me. She does it, as a matter of "duty", but it is unfulfilling and unsatisfying emotionally. But, then, porn won't satisfy what I need, either.


I have gone through that book and the lessons there have helped some but I have not be vigilant enough for a long time with "bouncing my eyes." I have always kept the women that I do interact with in my life at a clear distance to make sure I don't fall into any situations I will later regret, but more recently that has been more difficult. I have been wanting to be more flirty with other women because it's exciting and my marriage isnt at all exciting, and like I've said, I have thoughts about potentially leaving so that doesn't help either. No lines have been crossed. I still "have no game" so I've never actually acted on taking steps that direction but it's closer than Ive been before and I know I would be playing with fire if I did.


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> This hits hard, but with the reading and soul searching I have been doing recently, this is more and more the conclusion I am coming to. And as much as I have been trying to pin down the reasons why I have become the way that I am, I don't think that knowing those small details really matters because they are in the past and I can't change anything that has happened. I can only make changes now to more towards a better future, and if she doesn't want to follow me (not that I am going to leave her behind on purpose, she has to make her choices too) then I can cross that bridge when I get there. I do want to be more interesting to be around so there is work to do in that area too.
> 
> Growing a backbone and leading is honestly a little scary for me because I hate to fail, or make decisions that people are upset with but being that way is the reason I am where I am so something has to give.


Exactly the right attitude. Bravo.

And it is scary for sure to change like this for sure. But it’s necessary. At the very least you will feel better about yourself. At the best, your marriage will blossom into something wonderful.

Learn, study, read, ask questions, and make a plan of how to move forward. Then execute one step at a time, and reevaluate all over again. And never look back.

When I did this, I was extra careful about how every change affected my wife. We even went to MC so I that had extra confidence that things were going ok with her. But changing me into something better… not optional.

Sidenote: Wife loved every change and continues to love more and more as I evolve to a better man.

Best of luck to you!


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You allowed yourself to become this way. The first step to resolving your issues is for you to take your life back by taking personal responsibility for yourself and not blaming how you are on someone else. Yes, your wife influences and impacts you, but you are the one who chooses. Where you are is a result of your choices.

First thing, get back on track with the Lord immediately. Open your Bible and read at least a chapter per day. Spend time in prayer daily. That would be the first thing I would focus on. One thing at a time.

If you want to go to church, go. Ask you wife to go with you. If she doesn't want to go or even if she gets upset, go anyway. You have to break out of trying to please your wife and step into taking personal responsibility for your life and into pleasing God.

To get off porn, get this program: How to Quit Porn... for Good

Stop thinking about leaving your wife and start taking personal responsibility for yourself. Once you get your head back on straight and are living authentically, it will radically change the dynamic in your marriage, then you can start thinking about how to either resolve the problems with your wife or to leave. But if you leave now, nothing will have changed and you will end up in another bad relationship or marriage. The place and time to stop that from happening is now.

The book No More Mr. Nice Guy does an excellent job of explaining what the problem is, but his solution is ridiculous and will only create new problems.


----------



## TerriblyNiceGuy (10 mo ago)

MarmiteC said:


> This is really quite a statement here. I personally don't have issue with a partner using some porn on occasion, but the part that concerns me most is that you don't think you can look at a woman the way you're supposed to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When we first got married, I would send her messages, and make sexy comments to her some but those types of playful things aren't a strong suit for me, and after our sex life really never got started at the beginning I just stopped after a while. Honestly, at this point, as terrible as it sounds to even say it, I'm just not physically attracted to her. And the emotional connection isnt there either. I will own my part in all of this ( I deleted the porn stuff from my phone today as a start) but she has never owned her part. She has always placed the blame on me. And on the her side, she doesn't make me feel like she likes me at all either. Maybe that shouldn't matter as much to me but it does. I have always wanted a woman to look at me with adoration, and love and she never has given me that. Even earlier on in our marriage. She is cold and harsh most of the time. She is like this with our oldest son also. She is much more affectionate with our youngest, Probably because he is more physical (likes to sit right next to you or partly on you etc.) I will also add in that she hates most of the things I like. I can't think of a single thing that was something I liked that she has come to like over the years and she has flat out called several things I enjoy watching evil. Anime, and movies. I don't even watch anime anymore because of that, and I hardly watch movies either, and don't bother asking her to watch them with me because I know she will just fall asleep or start scrolling through instagram. Anyways, I do have some pent up resentment towards her that is not helping all of this. As a Christian its been blasted into my head that pre-marital sex (failed that) and divorce (on the edge of that) are basically the two worst things you could ever do, and here I am about to fail.

I have not made efforts to make her feel sexy in a very long time. We are basically room mates right now. I know it's a problem but our communication about anything serious always ends with her crying and super emotional about it and me freezing and not saying anything, which of course, makes everything worse. 

Honestly at this point I am willing to work on myself and encourage her to join me to see if we can make a connection again. I see pretty clearly now that I've been more of a beta male than i really ever wanted to realize or admit to, but that alone is probably causing me a lot of my problems. I am still torn on whether I want to be in this marriage still or not if I am being completely honest, but I feel like I have to try to make things better at least for myself and see what happens.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I've been thinking about posting here for quite a while now, and I hope I can get everything out that I need to, so I can hopefully get some advise. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I think am a terrible person for thinking and feeling the way I have been for the past month or so. I haven't been able to shake these feelings and it's honestly freaking me out.
> 
> I am in the "nice guy" category. Always have been. My mom has told me I was always very compliant as a kid too. I've always thought that being the nice guy was how I was supposed to be. I've been trying to dig into my past over the last few years to try and figure out why I am the way I am because I am not happy with where I am in my life. I'm 37 and I've been married for 16 years, have 2 kids (12, 5), and have a good career where I am well respected make decent money.
> 
> ...


Your problem is porn addiction and it has destroyed your marriage. I feel bad for the kids because my dad had porn in the house and it certainly had a negative influence on me. You can't expect a woman to be 100% invested when your hobby is looking at other women and jacking off to them on a regular basis.


----------



## TerriblyNiceGuy (10 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> You allowed yourself to become this way. The first step to resolving your issues is for you to take your life back by taking personal responsibility for yourself and not blaming how you are on someone else. Yes, your wife influences and impacts you, but you are the one who chooses. Where you are is a result of your choices.
> 
> First thing, get back on track with the Lord immediately. Open your Bible and read at least a chapter per day. Spend time in prayer daily. That would be the first thing I would focus on. One thing at a time.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link. I will take a look at that for sure.



> Stop thinking about leaving your wife and start taking personal responsibility for yourself. Once you get your head back on straight and are living authentically, it will radically change the dynamic in your marriage, then you can start thinking about how to either resolve the problems with your wife or to leave. But if you leave now, nothing will have changed and you will end up in another bad relationship or marriage. The place and time to stop that from happening is now.
> 
> The book No More Mr. Nice Guy does an excellent job of explaining what the problem is, but his solution is ridiculous and will only create new problems.


My mind is honestly a mess right now. I feel like I have to keep moving forward even if I have built up resentment for where I am right now. And you are right, I have to take more personal responsibility for myself and start reading my Bible more and praying more. Ive never been consistent with either of those things.

I did get a book on audible called No More Christian Mr Nice Guy but have not listened to it yet. Do you know if that book comes to the same conclusions?


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> Thank you for the link. I will take a look at that for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're welcome. I hope you find it helpful. Our church was using that program. It looks like a very solid program.

I haven't heard of the book, No More Christian Nice Guy, but just looked it up and it sounds like what I'm saying you need to do. Stop trying to be nice and start being a man of honor and integrity. I don't know if your wife has given up hope, but it sure sounds like it. It also sounds like she's been trying to fill in for your lack of initiative. I know you say when you try to do something, she gets upset, but it could be that you have been so unreliable that she doesn't trust you. This can lead to her overcompensation, which further damages the relationship. The way you two relate to each other is unhealthy. It takes one person to change and the whole relationship changes, for better or for worse. Be the change for good.

Speaking of trust, I think, once you finish No More Christian Nice Guy, that you listen to What Makes Love Last, by John Gottman. I've just started listening to it and think you would find it enlightening regarding your marriage.


----------



## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> When we first got married, I would send her messages, and make sexy comments to her some but those types of playful things aren't a strong suit for me, and after our sex life really never got started at the beginning I just stopped after a while. Honestly, at this point, as terrible as it sounds to even say it, I'm just not physically attracted to her. And the emotional connection isnt there either. I will own my part in all of this ( I deleted the porn stuff from my phone today as a start) but she has never owned her part. She has always placed the blame on me. And on the her side, she doesn't make me feel like she likes me at all either. Maybe that shouldn't matter as much to me but it does. I have always wanted a woman to look at me with adoration, and love and she never has given me that. Even earlier on in our marriage. She is cold and harsh most of the time. She is like this with our oldest son also. She is much more affectionate with our youngest, Probably because he is more physical (likes to sit right next to you or partly on you etc.) I will also add in that she hates most of the things I like. I can't think of a single thing that was something I liked that she has come to like over the years and she has flat out called several things I enjoy watching evil. Anime, and movies. I don't even watch anime anymore because of that, and I hardly watch movies either, and don't bother asking her to watch them with me because I know she will just fall asleep or start scrolling through instagram. Anyways, I do have some pent up resentment towards her that is not helping all of this. As a Christian its been blasted into my head that pre-marital sex (failed that) and divorce (on the edge of that) are basically the two worst things you could ever do, and here I am about to fail.
> 
> I have not made efforts to make her feel sexy in a very long time. We are basically room mates right now. I know it's a problem but our communication about anything serious always ends with her crying and super emotional about it and me freezing and not saying anything, which of course, makes everything worse.
> 
> Honestly at this point I am willing to work on myself and encourage her to join me to see if we can make a connection again. I see pretty clearly now that I've been more of a beta male than i really ever wanted to realize or admit to, but that alone is probably causing me a lot of my problems. I am still torn on whether I want to be in this marriage still or not if I am being completely honest, but I feel like I have to try to make things better at least for myself and see what happens.


At the moment your spouse consistently brings out the worse in you, it's time to reconsider the relationship. It appears your relationship is way past that, let's see:

1. you are not attracted to her
2. she's not attracted to you
3. she has never looked at you with adoration, meaning she never will
4. She is cold and harsh most of the time, which means you bring out the worst in her as well
5. You two don't enjoy time with each other
6. YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE AN INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP

You are just a baby still and have a lot more life to live. Sometimes it takes a bad relationship to understand what a good one is. I know that was the case for me. I'm usually not guy who says get divorced, but damn....all signs point that way. In fact, I don't know how you made it this far (probably for the kids which is a terrible excuse)


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

The relationship doesn't exist apart from the people in it. If two dysfunctional people leave the relationship, they will take their dysfunction into a new relationship, unless they resolve their issues, which is rare. 

If you grow and move out of your dysfunction, your wife will change how she relates to you as well. At first, it may be much worse, but often a spouse will begin to adapt healthier strategies when their spouse takes the lead. The marriage is bad due to how you two are relating to each other. I recommend that you work on yourself, learn to set boundaries, and become a healthier partner. See where that takes you. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> The relationship doesn't exist apart from the people in it. If two dysfunctional people leave the relationship, they will take their dysfunction into a new relationship, unless they resolve their issues, which is rare.
> 
> If you grow and move out of your dysfunction, your wife will change how she relates to you as well. At first, it may be much worse, but often a spouse will begin to adapt healthier strategies when their spouse takes the lead. The marriage is bad due to how you two are relating to each other. I recommend that you work on yourself, learn to set boundaries, and become a healthier partner. See where that takes you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


And this OP is exactly why I suggest having a MC on speed dial. When you become less broken and she is trying to catch up…that might not go well. Have someone for her to help her understand and adjust.


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I am in the "nice guy" category.


I recommend "no more mr nice guy" as a general read for nice guys.



> For my side of things, I do have a problem with porn.


"nice guys" are often addicts. It's about shame.



> She would freak out whenever we were just about to have sex and I would back off and tell her it was OK


Sounds like she also has "issues"



> I always feel like I have to make up for that and can't say no to her, ever.


What would happen if you did?



> She will not go to counseling to try and fix out problems because she is too prideful


Yeah, she too has a big shame issue



> I have no friends and no outside life at all.


Start with that. Fix that.



> We haven't been to church in years either, which I don't like but I'm afraid to go on my own because it might hurt her.


Boo hoo.



> I do not want to destroy my kids lives with a divorce but I am really unhappy in my marriage


Then keep divorce as a last resort. DO some other things first.



> My posts tend to be to longer than they probably need to be


It wasn't too bad, actually! I've seen worse. But yeah, learn to think clearly.


----------



## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I feel like she has slowly turned me into a male version of herself. Fearful, full of anxiety and worry about every little thing that could ever maybe, possibly go wrong.


It's called blame shifting. You're dumping the blame on her when in reality it's your own inability to to have a strong, confident, assertive personality that has made you the man you are now. YOU LET your wife dictate to you whatever, you ALLOWED it. As time passed by, you saw what was happening, but you didn't have the fortitude nor the balls to do anything about it. I doubt that you will become an alpha male, but at least you should try Marriage counseling (MC), and Individual counseling (IC). Start by reading Glober's "Not More Mr. Nice Guy".


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Until you recognize and resolve your own issues that got you to this place, you will not find a healthy relationship. You will keep repeating the same old dysfunctional lines and behaviors. Your wife will too. The first step is to stop blaming her. You said that you can't even stand up for yourself. That's not on her. That is squarely on your own shoulders, no matter what she does. Let her own her feelings while you own yours. It's okay for her to be angry at you, whether or not it is appropriate. Of course, I'm not recommending that you do something rude. I'm recommending that you stand in integrity as an adult and own your life. It's going to take a while before you are able to determine what that is and how it looks. Take it one step at a time. Don't be angry with her. Don't be angry with yourself either. You worked together to destroy your marriage. Let's see if you can get to a place where you're ready to build your marriage together.

I'm interested in the book you are reading, No More Christian Nice Guy. It sounds like it covers similar material to No More Mr. Nice Guy, but with a better approach to resolution.

Once you get a footing on yourself, you should be able to start working to repair your side of the dysfunction in your marriage. Putting everything on your wife, which is what it appears you are doing, is only going to deepen your wife's distrust in you and make you feel worse as a person, because you are relinquishing control of your life. The only one who you should give control of your life to is the Lord God. Marriage is about unity, not control. Actually, so is Christianity. God wants you to be in unity with him.


----------



## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> When we first got married, I would send her messages, and make sexy comments to her some but those types of playful things aren't a strong suit for me, and after our sex life really never got started at the beginning I just stopped after a while. Honestly, at this point, as terrible as it sounds to even say it, I'm just not physically attracted to her. And the emotional connection isnt there either. I will own my part in all of this ( I deleted the porn stuff from my phone today as a start) but she has never owned her part. She has always placed the blame on me. And on the her side, she doesn't make me feel like she likes me at all either. Maybe that shouldn't matter as much to me but it does. I have always wanted a woman to look at me with adoration, and love and she never has given me that. Even earlier on in our marriage. She is cold and harsh most of the time. She is like this with our oldest son also. She is much more affectionate with our youngest, Probably because he is more physical (likes to sit right next to you or partly on you etc.) I will also add in that she hates most of the things I like. I can't think of a single thing that was something I liked that she has come to like over the years and she has flat out called several things I enjoy watching evil. Anime, and movies. I don't even watch anime anymore because of that, and I hardly watch movies either, and don't bother asking her to watch them with me because I know she will just fall asleep or start scrolling through instagram. Anyways, I do have some pent up resentment towards her that is not helping all of this. As a Christian its been blasted into my head that pre-marital sex (failed that) and divorce (on the edge of that) are basically the two worst things you could ever do, and here I am about to fail.
> 
> I have not made efforts to make her feel sexy in a very long time. We are basically room mates right now. I know it's a problem but our communication about anything serious always ends with her crying and super emotional about it and me freezing and not saying anything, which of course, makes everything worse.
> 
> Honestly at this point I am willing to work on myself and encourage her to join me to see if we can make a connection again. I see pretty clearly now that I've been more of a beta male than i really ever wanted to realize or admit to, but that alone is probably causing me a lot of my problems. I am still torn on whether I want to be in this marriage still or not if I am being completely honest, but I feel like I have to try to make things better at least for myself and see what happens.


Well done on making the first step, and that is a decision to do different. 

I do hear there are many other factors here at play. I am not religious myself so I can't comment on your faith or the impact of any future decision on it, however I am not a believer of staying with someone who makes you unhappy. A partner should naturally make you want to be the best version of yourself. It is not failing to admit it doesn't and cannot work. 

Good Luck for the future


----------



## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> The book No More Mr. Nice Guy does an excellent job of explaining what the problem is, but his solution is ridiculous and will only create new problems.


What do you mean by that @Cynthia ? I'm working through Glover's book right now and have my own thoughts about its pros and cons. I'd be interested to hear what you see as the problem with it.


----------



## TerriblyNiceGuy (10 mo ago)

I just wanted to say that I feel different/better after posting all of this. It's been pent up inside of me for a long time. Also, it may seem like i hate my wife after what I have posted, but I do love her. The deepest parts of my want to make my marriage work, which is why I'm posting here in the first place. I was expecting to really get flamed for how I feel, and I have been surprised by the support and tough advise I have been given.





Rob_1 said:


> It's called blame shifting. You're dumping the blame on her when in reality it's your own inability to to have a strong, confident, assertive personality that has made you the man you are now. YOU LET your wife dictate to you whatever, you ALLOWED it. As time passed by, you saw what was happening, but you didn't have the fortitude nor the balls to do anything about it. I doubt that you will become an alpha male, but at least you should try Marriage counseling (MC), and Individual counseling (IC). Start by reading Glober's "Not More Mr. Nice Guy".


I may be blaming her a lot here. Maybe too much, but I have never been 100% open an honest on how I feel to anyone about my marriage even when I did IC for about 6 months last year. I have always held back a little of how I am feeling out of shame, and guilt for even having the thoughts that I have in my head. I really needed to at least vent it all out, whether I am right in that thinking or not. I do agree that MC is a good idea for us, and I hope that as I start to change things for myself she will be willing to go.



Cynthia said:


> Until you recognize and resolve your own issues that got you to this place, you will not find a healthy relationship. You will keep repeating the same old dysfunctional lines and behaviors. Your wife will too. The first step is to stop blaming her. You said that you can't even stand up for yourself. That's not on her. That is squarely on your own shoulders, no matter what she does. Let her own her feelings while you own yours. It's okay for her to be angry at you, whether or not it is appropriate. Of course, I'm not recommending that you do something rude. I'm recommending that you stand in integrity as an adult and own your life. It's going to take a while before you are able to determine what that is and how it looks. Take it one step at a time. Don't be angry with her. Don't be angry with yourself either. You worked together to destroy your marriage. Let's see if you can get to a place where you're ready to build your marriage together.
> 
> I'm interested in the book you are reading, No More Christian Nice Guy. It sounds like it covers similar material to No More Mr. Nice Guy, but with a better approach to resolution.
> 
> Once you get a footing on yourself, you should be able to start working to repair your side of the dysfunction in your marriage. Putting everything on your wife, which is what it appears you are doing, is only going to deepen your wife's distrust in you and make you feel worse as a person, because you are relinquishing control of your life. The only one who you should give control of your life to is the Lord God. Marriage is about unity, not control. Actually, so is Christianity. God wants you to be in unity with him.


I clearly see a path going forward, and I know that this will be a process. I don't know why it wasn't very clear to me before. No matter what happens in the future, I have to work on myself or this current marriage will end and I will bring my brokenness with me and the next one would be doomed to fail also. I do have hope that things can get better for my wife and I both. I was attracted to her emotionally and physically in the past and I do believe that God can restore relationships even if they appear dead and not worth trying for.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Your problem is porn addiction and it has destroyed your marriage. I feel bad for the kids because my dad had porn in the house and it certainly had a negative influence on me. You can't expect a woman to be 100% invested when your hobby is looking at other women and jacking off to them on a regular basis.


My dad too. Never respected him much after I found his porn stash.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I just wanted to say that I feel different/better after posting all of this. It's been pent up inside of me for a long time. Also, it may seem like i hate my wife after what I have posted, but I do love her. The deepest parts of my want to make my marriage work, which is why I'm posting here in the first place. I was expecting to really get flamed for how I feel, and I have been surprised by the support and tough advise I have been given.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you start putting God first, getting back to church, joining a men's group, praying together etc, then things will slowly improve. You need Christians male influence and support.
God can work miracles if you do your part.
Its about letting him work in you, being open to Him changing you.


----------



## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> but I have never been 100% open an honest on how I feel to anyone about my marriage even when I did IC for about 6 months last year. I have always held back a little of how I am feeling out of shame, and guilt for even having the thoughts that I have in my head.


FYI. I sort of gathered that through your OP. I said to myself, here we have a man that can't even be truthful to himself. This is one of the gauges I have to predict if an OP would come back to post again or not. Normally OPs that are so cowardly as to lie to themself once they read the truth about themself from anonymous online posters, they just stop. They cannot have the guts to confront who they are when told; consequently they disappear and no more posts from them.

You in the other hand, had the fortitude and the strength to admit to yourself what your failings are, and come back here to explain better and to gather more input for help. This tells me that you are right now taking the necessary steps to better yourself and your marriage. One, if not the most important step for you to take toward your relationship is communication, communication, and again communication with your partner. You must communicate, clearly and precisely what you mean with not margin for misunderstandings. 

And yes, you MUST work a path for you to become a secure, assertive, and strong man that can handle any problem coming his way with aplomb and serenity. This will helps toward your future whatever that might be, with your wife or not. 
Don't ask for divine help and intervention if you are not going to help yourself first. Like the saying "God helps those that help themselves". Good luck.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> FYI. I sort of gathered that through your OP. I said to myself, here we have a man that can't even be truthful to himself. This is one of the gauges I have to predict if an OP would come back to post again or not. Normally OPs that are so cowardly as to lie to themself once they read the truth about themself from anonymous online posters, they just stop. They cannot have the guts to confront who they are when told; consequently they disappear and no more posts from them.
> 
> You in the other hand, had the fortitude and the strength to admit to yourself what your failings are, and come back here to explain better and to gather more input for help. This tells me that you are right now taking the necessary steps to better yourself and your marriage. One, if not the most important step for you to take toward your relationship is communication, communication, and again communication with your partner. You must communicate, clearly and precisely what you mean with not margin for misunderstandings.
> 
> ...


Sometimes do you think that God waits till we have given up on what WE can do?


----------



## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Sometimes do you think that God waits till we have given up on what WE can do?


Diana: who cares, I don't believe in a god, so your point is mute to me. You go ahead with your believes, but please, stop proselytizing. 

I understand that OP is religious to a point, but in the real world if he doesn't helps himself, he is setting himself up for failure.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rob_1 said:


> Diana: who cares, I don't believe in a god, so your point is mute to me. You go ahead with your believes, but please, stop proselytizing.
> 
> I understand that OP is religious to a point, but in the real world if he doesn't helps himself, he is setting himself up for failure.


I got you confused with another poster who is a Christian. The poster is a Christian. 
God helps those who help themselves isn't in the Bible anyway.


----------



## thatgirl1999 (12 mo ago)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I've been thinking about posting here for quite a while now, and I hope I can get everything out that I need to, so I can hopefully get some advise. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I think am a terrible person for thinking and feeling the way I have been for the past month or so. I haven't been able to shake these feelings and it's honestly freaking me out.
> 
> I am in the "nice guy" category. Always have been. My mom has told me I was always very compliant as a kid too. I've always thought that being the nice guy was how I was supposed to be. I've been trying to dig into my past over the last few years to try and figure out why I am the way I am because I am not happy with where I am in my life. I'm 37 and I've been married for 16 years, have 2 kids (12, 5), and have a good career where I am well respected make decent money.
> 
> ...


Your happiness matters. Im kind of in the same boat you are. Take some time to think about what you really want and need and then go from there.


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

It's ok to be honest w/ yourself, but when on the internet be sure to exaggerate your stature to the rest of us.


----------



## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> I've been thinking about posting here for quite a while now, and I hope I can get everything out that I need to, so I can hopefully get some advise. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I think am a terrible person for thinking and feeling the way I have been for the past month or so. I haven't been able to shake these feelings and it's honestly freaking me out.
> 
> I am in the "nice guy" category. Always have been. My mom has told me I was always very compliant as a kid too. I've always thought that being the nice guy was how I was supposed to be. I've been trying to dig into my past over the last few years to try and figure out why I am the way I am because I am not happy with where I am in my life. I'm 37 and I've been married for 16 years, have 2 kids (12, 5), and have a good career where I am well respected make decent money.
> 
> ...


Stop wining stop porn, game your wife, stop being a beta. Story goes beta bucks alphas buck, exchange a b with a f. Grow a pair.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

davebrubeck1 said:


> What do you mean by that @Cynthia ? I'm working through Glover's book right now and have my own thoughts about its pros and cons. I'd be interested to hear what you see as the problem with it.


It's been years since I read it, but what I took away from it was that his so called solution was to focus entirely on himself without any regard for a partner. It was basically advice to check out of the relationship emotionally and sexually and be entirely self centered, which is bad advice. Yes, it's important to take responsibility for oneself and to learn about yourself, but not to the exclusion of those you are close to and responsible to, especially one's spouse.


----------



## davebrubeck1 (Dec 2, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> It's been years since I read it, but what I took away from it was that his so called solution was to focus entirely on himself without any regard for a partner. It was basically advice to check out of the relationship emotionally and sexually and be entirely self centered, which is bad advice. Yes, it's important to take responsibility for oneself and to learn about yourself, but not to the exclusion of those you are close to and responsible to, especially one's spouse.


I don't see the book that way. It is about putting one's needs first. But the idea is that only when you know how to take care of your own needs can you give freely to others, without expecting anything in return.
I can see that it may be tempting to interpret the book as a green light to check out of the responsibilities of a relationship. That wouldn't be a good idea. So, thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

And, another one down, another one bites the dust.......

Seriously, I don't need to read the comments. Pull the plug, it's over. There is no fixing this. Save the life you have left and get out. I don't feel I need to explain myself. Do NOT waste thousands in therapy, think for another 5yrs, just go.


----------



## TerriblyNiceGuy (10 mo ago)

Just wanted to post a small update. I still don't have a lot of hope for my marriage long term but that thought still freaks me out because I don't want to ruin my kids lives. I am working on getting away from my porn addiction as a first step. Got connected with a group to go through the Conquer series online that was suggested to me. It's really messing with me and I need to get a clear head before I can really make a decision on anything else.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> Just wanted to post a small update. I still don't have a lot of hope for my marriage long term but that thought still freaks me out because I don't want to ruin my kids lives. I am working on getting away from my porn addiction as a first step. Got connected with a group to go through the Conquer series online that was suggested to me. It's really messing with me and I need to get a clear head before I can really make a decision on anything else.


The men's pastor says that most men drop out of the Conquer group. Don't be one of them. Be serious and stick to the program. Porn will continue to kick your butt if you don't get it out of your life. You cannot control the addiction. Addiction will control you, if you don't entirely cut it out of your life.


----------



## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

TerriblyNiceGuy said:


> It's really messing with me and I need to get a clear head before I can really make a decision on anything else.



Can you explain why you said this?
You are who you are at the moment and he is not a totally bad guy. I am sure the program that you are in can be started with small steps. You have gone this far and i am sure you can hang around a bit more. 

Did you read about the fitness test in this forum?


----------



## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

OP, as long as you don't gain enough confidence in yourself, as long as you don't become a secure, self respecting individual you can't fix much. How can you fix anything if you can't fix yourself? Seriously, think about.


----------

