# for you, my dear



## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

I’m just a shadow of my former life, all I wanted was to be your wife.

Hoping you would come to me, with all of your wants, desires and manly needs.

How very rarely these times came, sometimes I feel like I am just a game

Just something to be played with and then back on the shelf I go.

When will you need me again? I never know.

I stay and wait and hope and pray that you will wake up and need me today.

Months go by and you never do, my needs never matter to you.

I know I’m not perfect and never can be, but there was a time when you were perfect for me.

Where are those days when we were so in love? No one could break us, even when push came to shove!

I lay down at night and sometimes dream of you, and all the wonderful things we use to do.

How I miss you dear husband and all that you were, how we got here seems such a blur.

No talking or kissing or pats of affection. I’ve had all I can take of this constant rejection.

You have broken the woman that was so proud of you, her wonderful husband no other compared to.

Your job is your wife now, the televison is your kids. Do you ever recall the fun things we did?

Once a great man but now bitter and mean, you could have had it all, anything and everything.

How can I stay? Why shouldn’t I leave? You hold the power, you have the key.

But still you do nothing, am I not worthy of your touch? You had so many chances but never did much.

I feel like your hostage, you car title, your deed. When will you realize I too have needs?

You think I’m stranded and can never leave, but one day dear husband maybe you will understand. 

I only needed for you to be a man…


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## Accipiter777 (Jul 22, 2011)

*wow


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Send it to him.


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Send it to him.


I agree. But if he is anything like my husband it wont make a difference. I can talk till I'm blue in the face and nothing changes.

I feel for you.


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

1971 said:


> I agree. But if he is anything like my husband it wont make a difference. I can talk till I'm blue in the face and nothing changes.
> 
> I feel for you.


I'm sorry you and I are in the same boat. Maybe, in time, we can paddle our way upstream.

He will change for a week or two then it's back to the same behaviors. Just when it starts to get better, it's gone.

So sending it wouldn't make a difference and tbh it would only cause him to give me scraps of attention for a few days. I'm done with feeling like a stray dog begging for a handout.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

At least he changes for a week or two. I'd settle for that and explain away the regression into the old self somehow.

Substitute genders and that's basically me right there. But you got It right, drop all expectations and things become much easier.


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## Eöl (Feb 13, 2013)

Hello Fire N Ice, beautiful words, congrats. 

If you allow me to give you some advice, I would recommend you to "scare the crap out of him". Men sometimes don't snap into it. He might need to be shaken to start seriously thinking about reconquering you. You really need to go nuke on him.


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## free2bboshay (Jun 5, 2013)

Oh Fire N Ice. you said it all and so very well. 
I read this an cried, It was like someone finally saw how I feel and put it in words.

We have been on the silent treatment here for 2 days, I think I would rather have the screaming. 

Its such a hollow feeling like its inside and its growing and there is no room for it to grow. The pain is intense. 

I feel for you, I wish I could give you a hug, I need one too and I bet you could use one as well.

Some day it will be our turn, some day it wont hurt so much....

At least that's my prayer.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

how long have you been married? do you have kids? what is the reason/incentive to stay in such a hollow, ungiving, marriage? You sound vibrant, caring, loving. He sounds like a zombie. What in it for you, except old memories of the good times that used to be?


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

I wanted to respond with a poem too
But it seems too hard
Is that okay if
I only skip a line?

Your pain is obvious
No need to be a genius
But one things is clear
And in your mind you need to bear

It sounds like you say
He should make you happy, today
Well, Mrs. fire and ice
This is your mistake, twice

He might be a bad husband
Or a good one, I don't know
But your happiness
Has to come from inside, and grow

But instead, you wait for him to touch
To tell you nice things
Will you wait forever?
Or sink into despair?

I can bet you that if
My wife would read your poem
She would find herself cry and say
This is me, this is the story of my life

The problem is 
She will not tell
The other side of the story
She will think it's boring

But she also wants love
And touch
But did she ever realize
How her action push me away so much?

She yells, calls name
And hardly being affectionate
Yet thinks that I am the one
Who is not being lovingly intimate

Well, I don't know you, or your husband
But one thing is clear
Stop this 
It's what you need to hear

Don't make your happiness depends on him
And when you will be a happy person
Guess what
He might want to join you
Too.

[Or not]


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

I’m so glad I found this forum. Only I wish I had found it sooner!!!

John117- I don’t think you would really be happy just settling. I’ve had 6 years of it, it just gets tougher. No fun being reeled in only to be cast out time and time again.

Eol- Not sure if I can scare him or not but I willing to give it one heck of a shot! Got any ideas that will work?

Free2- I know the silent treatment all too well and I’ve also heard the screaming. I’ll take the silent if given the choice. I don’t deal well with loud outbursts. Those send me into somewhat of a fight or flight response and I head for the hills. I don’t mind talking or discussing anything, as long as it isn’t too aggressive. ((Hugs back to you)) Your right, we will have our turn, we just have to figure out how to make that happen.

IsGirl3-We have been married 20 years. My reasons for still being here probably aren’t great ones but I will own them nonetheless. The main reason is I still love him. We have kids that I would hate to uproot and he is a decent father to them. And the kicker, I brought on myself. I’ve been a SAHM for most of the marriage. Mutual agreement, but I wish now that I had made a different choice. So now I am stuck, financially dependent, for the time being. I’m working hard to change that. I have contributed though. I had a decent inheritance that was used by us both.

Joshb- Thanks for the poem back!  You are correct on making my own happiness. For the most part I have. This just seems this one problem I can’t either solve, agree to disagree, ignore….whatever one chooses to do when a problem arises… The name calling part of your poem struck me. (Not because my H calls me names, he doesn’t.) I hate name calling! It’s completely unnecessary. I will however call out a behavior… if the shoe fits.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

A relapse into normalcy is a sign that he's capable of acting normally. A lot of us can't even say that. It gives you a point to work from.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

There's a reason. There always is. You may not be able to get to it and get him to fix it though. I'm sorry for you. It's too bad.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I have no idea if this will provide any help or understanding. I found it and thought I would give it a try. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/45051-path-sexlessness.html


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## Eöl (Feb 13, 2013)

Fire n ice, 

I do have ideas, actually I was the numb one once. My girl got bored of my unhappy a** and one day she started flirting with an ex. 

She told me everything about it, even asked me if she could go see him (she was pregnant by the way...) 

A few days later she asked me if it was ok to have an affair with the guy.....................................

Obviously I went berzerk and did everything in my power to get her off the path she was following. I finally managed to, but it was a close one....... 

Now things improved a lot between us, we are much closer, although we almost broke up. 

A relationship has its ups and downs. Things can change, although a drastic change is needed here. Your husband has to snap out of his sleep and you have to find a strategy to touch him where it hurts. You know him better than anyone, use his weaknesses !


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Hurting doesn't help in some cases. You know him best. Sometimes it will drive him deeper into his denial. I think you have to know what type of person he is on the inside. How he grew up. What is important to him. What are his hangups about sex and women. What are the things that give him a sense of self-respect and awareness of his masculinity. 

These things are so deep, it seems best to have a counselor of some sort do the work. To get him there, he has to understand that it is a major problem. Sometimes people get so caught up in themselves they can't see the forest for the trees. 

He should be checked by his doctors and made aware that it is to find out what the problem is with his desire for life and happiness. Sometimes it's a mommy complex and you end up being placed in the same thoughts as his mother. He wouldn't want to have sex with his mother, but he still loves her. That would be frustrating. I don't know what it is. 

I know I would have his testosterone levels checked and if he is around 300 or less, he should seriously talk to a doctor about increasing that number. Also, he needs to be checked for depression and anxiety. Yeah, it's funny that I would write that when you are the one that is suffering. Truthfully, if he wasn't suffering in some way, he would be having sex or at least wanting it. 

It's not normal or healthy to live without sex.


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks for the great advice ya’ll. 

John117- It’s very likely your right that he isn’t capable of acting normal. I’ve thought this before myself. Sometimes his total mood seems forced or faked. Strange.

2ntnuf-Will read that asap. Thanks for the link.
Eol- I’m glad things have improved for you. It’s good to hear success stories. It gives me hope.

I don’t think I could ever ask for the green light for an affair. That would just make me feel worse about myself even considering it. I have to admit a few years ago I did say in anger that if he didn’t want me, that someone else would. It didn’t make much of an impact.

The only two things that would hurt him, I would have to be pretty low to actually do to him. One is to spend his $, a lot of it. He is all about a dollar…lol and the second one is to make him look bad to friends and family. 

As far as his back ground, he didn’t have the best family. His dad was cruel and manipulating, his mother had her own psychological issues. All while being raised in a strict religious house hold, it probably has done a number on him.

It’s just crazy, most days he is p***** off and moody, then he has days like today. He was kind and helpful….the guy he was when we were dating. Bedtime comes and nothing, absolutely nothing. Makes me want to pull my hair out!


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## Eöl (Feb 13, 2013)

Hey Fire n Ice, 

You say bedtime comes and nothing happens. Do you try to take the lead ?


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

Eöl said:


> Hey Fire n Ice,
> 
> You say bedtime comes and nothing happens. Do you try to take the lead ?


I’ve tried, although not as frequently these days. Up until about a year ago I attempted a couple of times a week consistently. Thinking that was too often, I slowed that down to once a week, still no response. I then reduced it even further to once a month over time. That’s about where I am at now.

It’s tough now to even try, even though I still do (just in case). It seems almost awkward at times, especially knowing I will have about a 90% failure rate. What’s next? Do I stop trying altogether? Up the offers to 3-4 times a week? 

I’ve tried initiating in the mornings, in different rooms of the house, sleeping nude or in new lingerie, jumping his bones, offering anything he might want to try. I’m not opposed to much. But tbh, I have no idea what he is into sexually. He hasn’t taken the lead in so long it’s like a guessing game, and he sure wont clue me in. :scratchhead:

He does like affection but he just doesn’t respond to sexual affection. If that makes any sense???

He also likes date nights and doing things together, which we do often.


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## Eöl (Feb 13, 2013)

Wow. I wish my girl would do all those attempts for me ;D

I think you should try talking to him about what arouses him sexually. If he let's you in, maybe that could help at least understand why it doesn't work so well. 
Does he have erection issues ? or a frustration that could block his desire ?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Health Problems including but not limited to:

Testosterone levels: These will affect desire, feelings of masculinity, confidence, drive to accomplish things, level of energy

Heart health, sleep apnia, blood pressure, physical condition, depression and their medications: These will affect desire for sex, happiness, confidence, etc.

These will cause anything that is said to him that normally would be just sloughed off to be taken seriously and affect him further, driving any desire deeper into hiding for fear of, whatever.


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

Eöl said:


> Wow. I wish my girl would do all those attempts for me ;D
> 
> I think you should try talking to him about what arouses him sexually. If he let's you in, maybe that could help at least understand why it doesn't work so well.
> Does he have erection issues ? or a frustration that could block his desire ?


When I've asked him what he likes, he will say he likes it all. Or he likes whatever I like. Or even better yet, instead of answering, he will ask the same question back to me. Just ways of answering without really answering at all. So I'm left wondering wth does he want from me?

As far as frustrations-that list could be a mile long. Very little used to bother him. He was easy going and a very loveable person. Everyone we knew liked him. Females would brag about what a wonderful husband he was. And he really was a great husband. Over the past few years, every little thing makes him mad. 

What is odd though, he says I don't make him mad. It's not what I'm doing that p***** him off. Like it is everyone else in the entire world, except me. Which I don't believe is entirely true. Surely he has to get at least a little aggravated with me at some point?


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Health Problems including but not limited to:
> 
> Testosterone levels: These will affect desire, feelings of masculinity, confidence, drive to accomplish things, level of energy
> 
> ...


I've mentioned T levels to him, offered to make an appointment and go with him. He doesn't like doctors, is his excuse. He does like his dentist though. He never misses those appointments. He isn't on any meds currently. 

He was tested for sleep apnea several years ago. He was fine then. Tests were all good.

He has put on about 20 pounds over the last few months but is still far from fat. My worry there is diabetes runs in his family. I've checked his sugar levels several times and they run from normal-mildly elevated after a large meal.

I'm no doctor though and wish he would go for a full physical.

Depression? I have no clue about. I can only hope his mother's issues weren't passed on to him.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm thinking T levels and mild depression. The thing is, if he won't go to a doctor, you won't know. I bet that's it, though. 

You're right, he needs a full physical. 

Depression will stop him from going to the doctor or any desire. If you can get those things ruled out, you can start to find out what is wrong and be able to make an informed decision. 

Seems like counseling might be in order just to get him to agree that he, like all of us, needs a physical once in a while. Maybe you could start with a call to some therapists and see if they have any ideas about trying to get him there for an evaluation?


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## Rod (Jun 19, 2013)

Sadly enough I recently had my wife leave me for alot of similiar reasons you mention here. Now I find myself devastated and heart broken. I would do anything to change all this but I cannot see a reconcilation in our future. It is my fault she left and now she is hardened. I miss her so much but there is nothing I can do. He needs to wake up before it's too late!!!


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## sadwife2012 (Aug 19, 2012)

You've summed up my situation. I don't know what to suggest.


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

Rod said:


> Sadly enough I recently had my wife leave me for alot of similiar reasons you mention here. Now I find myself devastated and heart broken. I would do anything to change all this but I cannot see a reconcilation in our future. It is my fault she left and now she is hardened. I miss her so much but there is nothing I can do. He needs to wake up before it's too late!!!


Rod,
Care to share why you were this way and how long before she left you? Do you have your story posted here so I might read it? 

I'm sorry she left. I can also understand why, too. For me, I just feel so unloved, unimportant, taken for granted and sometimes unattractive. There's a whole range of emotions, from mourning the loss (almost like a death) to numbness to out right anger. Maybe someday, if you have changed, she might see those changes. TBH, if I leave I wont ever consider coming back. That's just me though.


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## Eöl (Feb 13, 2013)

Fire n Ice, please never lose faith in yourself. You are worthy of being loved / desired no matter what happens. Take care of yourself. Work out, buy clothes etc... Take time for yourself, and try to be as attractive as possible. Compliments will come from everyone except him most likely but at least you may regain some self assurance.

That said, I really believe he is being elusive when you ask him what turns him on. There HAS to be something... but he beats around the bush. Is he ashamed of what he likes ? is he just not comfortable speaking about it with you ? Or is he just numb for some reason ?
If my girl was in your shoes, she would put the world upside down until she would get solid answers. Maybe some of his close friends know things you don't ? That can be a lead, but it might be awkward to ask them, depending on what relationship you share. You can always check on his computer or phone and see if something comes up. I already did that a few times, I know it's not ethical, but it helped me avoid terrible situations in the past. 

Hope it helps in any possible manner


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

When I feel disrespected and humiliated, I tend to close off. Do you think that is what he is doing?

I've felt belittled many times, when I think I've been misunderstood. 

When I feel guilt and shame, I tend to have less desire for the good things in life. Could this be something that is in his life?

When I feel abandoned, I need encouragement and affirmation that I am not alone. Sometimes I need this from more than just the people closest to me. 

I feel sad, because I really like when couples find solutions to their problems and return to a loving, committed, fulfilling relationship.


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> When I feel disrespected and humiliated, I tend to close off. Do you think that is what he is doing?
> 
> I've felt belittled many times, when I think I've been misunderstood.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure if he feels any of those things, because he doesn't share much, except the abandonment-issues with his father.

I've noticed so many changes in him it's almost like living with a stranger sometimes. It's not just his changing attitude towards sex, his entire attitude towards everything is different.

Like he seems to enjoy the idea of others misfortune, is another change that bothers me.

I'm not sure if I am wording that correctly but he was in a store recently and ran into a woman he use to work with. She was with her husband and grandson and apparently both of their debit cards had been declined. The couple had to pay for their purchase with change. He comes out of the store with a smirk, and giggles the whole way through telling me the story. After I saw the couple, it was obvious they didn't have a lot of money. I failed to see the humor in trying to buy an ice cream for a child and having to dig for coins to do so. 

The point with this is, the old him, would have quietly passed the man a few bucks to pay for the purchase and not thought it was funny someone was poor.

I don't think I misread the situation because there have been other instances of this behavior from him recently. I just don't understand how he can be the way he is now, when he was never like this before. 

It's just tough trying to get a feel for where his mind is at times. Trying to guess his mood and trying to not do anything that will set him off is wearing me down.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Fire-N-Ice said:


> I'm not sure if he feels any of those things, because he doesn't share much, except the abandonment-issues with his father.
> 
> I believe you feel confused because you desire clarity in communication so that you have a better understanding of how to meet his needs. Is that about right?
> 
> ...


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

2ntnuf "I believe you feel confused because you desire clarity in communication so that you have a better understanding of how to meet his needs. Is that about right?"

Yes! Because no matter how hard I try, what angle I go at things, nothing I'm doing is right. And I don't know it's "wrong" until it comes out months or even years later. By then it's too far removed to even try and correct so it's back to square one.

"It sounds to me like you are embarrassed because you value empathy in your life to be able to be intimately connected to your spouse. When he doesn't show empathy toward others whom he does not know, you become afraid to open up and tell him what is bothering you, because if he is that harsh with someone he doesn't know, he may be even more so with you. Am I understanding what you are saying"

Partially correct. I do value empathy. I'm always a cheerleader for the underdog. Thing is, he used to be too. It's strange seeing him act so p***** off at the world that he feels the need to laugh at 
those less fortunate than he is. 

His latest quest is to get a co-worker fired. It's true the guy isn't the best employee but his job performance has no effect on my H's job at all. I guess I'm upset that he spends so much energy on this co-worker but doesn't on his own family.

I'm not afraid to tell him what's bothering me. I've made to make it a point to tell him. He knows, I'm sure of that.

I've laid it out in simple terms. Like I need A, B, & C from you. If I don't receive A, B or C , it makes me feel like ________. Is there anything else you need from me? Not in those exact terms but similar format. 

Usually at that point, I get " no baby, everything your doing is great". But he doesn't improve things from his end.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

When he speaks to you he seems to give you the respect you desire with his words. I'm guessing you feel disrespected, though, because he doesn't follow through with actions. It must make you feel sad and confused because you feel unimportant to him, proven by his lack of action. You need to trust him to be able to openly show him the love that you feel inside. You need to feel a oneness in thought with the man you love.

I believe his need for respect is not being met by his superiors or coworkers(people he values) and he is fighting the only way he knows to regain respect from his coworkers and within himself. He values respect and doesn't get it in a manner that causes him to feel like the man he knows he is or can be. 

I wonder what his age is and what his life experiences are that contribute to this? Does he believe that he should be much further along in life than he is? Have his coworkers shown jealousy of his station in life? Do they tell him he got there in a less than honorable way and try to prove to everyone that their statements are true? Does he believe that he has worked hard all his life and is not recognized for his accomplishments? It sounds like there is a power struggle of some sort going on. Do you think that might be the case?


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## Fire-N-Ice (Jun 16, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> When he speaks to you he seems to give you the respect you desire with his words. I'm guessing you feel disrespected, though, because he doesn't follow through with actions. It must make you feel sad and confused because you feel unimportant to him, proven by his lack of action. You need to trust him to be able to openly show him the love that you feel inside. You need to feel a oneness in thought with the man you love.
> 
> I believe his need for respect is not being met by his superiors or coworkers(people he values) and he is fighting the only way he knows to regain respect from his coworkers and within himself. He values respect and doesn't get it in a manner that causes him to feel like the man he knows he is or can be.
> 
> I wonder what his age is and what his life experiences are that contribute to this? Does he believe that he should be much further along in life than he is? Have his coworkers shown jealousy of his station in life? Do they tell him he got there in a less than honorable way and try to prove to everyone that their statements are true? Does he believe that he has worked hard all his life and is not recognized for his accomplishments? It sounds like there is a power struggle of some sort going on. Do you think that might be the case?


Wow! Are you sure you don't know my H IRL? :smthumbup:

Your right that he does speak to me with respect, always has. It's his inaction that makes his words carry very little weight with me. It's hard to believe his words when he does little else to show them to be true. 

How do you become one again when the other person doesn't let you in? I've kept myself open to him for so long, only to be ignored time and time again. Sometimes I actually feel myself closing off from him. I suppose it is a form of self protection.

I believe you couldn't be more correct on the respect at work aspect. He always wants to be right and 99% he is. He wants everyone to do things the right way. The reality is that will never happen. 

He is putting himself out there for anything that needs to be done, so of course some people are going to take advantage. Why does he volunteer if he is just going to be mad that they accepted his offer? He has people calling almost daily for help at work, even other supervisors. Then gets angry that they are too stupid to know certain things. He never shows his anger to those callers, instead I get the benefit of that.

H is in late his late 30's. As far as thinking he should be farther along in life, YES! By now he should be living in a mansion, driving a Porsche, and won the lottery-twice! 

I think he doesn't see how much he really does have, compared to others our age. Sure there are some who have more, but many others have much less. H can be a "keep up with the Jones'" type sometimes. Me? Not so much, as long as the house / cars are functioning and clean. 

H has also mentioned buying me a new car several times over the past few months. I have a perfectly good car I am happy with. I probably screwed up by declining the car but I don't need to be bought....I just want a little damn attention.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Fire-N-Ice said:


> Wow! Are you sure you don't know my H IRL? :smthumbup:
> 
> Your right that he does speak to me with respect, always has. It's his inaction that makes his words carry very little weight with me. It's hard to believe his words when he does little else to show them to be true.
> 
> ...




LOL No, I do not know you or your husband. As you can see, he does love you. He wants the best for you. He is so caught up in his life that he cannot see the forest for the trees. He's got you there for him, waiting to fulfill his needs. If he only had some reasonable needs that he would verbalize, right?

He needs help to find out what is going on with his priorities. He needs help to figure out what he is doing that is not getting his needs met. He needs help to know if he is expecting way too much or just not saying or doing the right things to garner the respect he deserves. I'm thinking he needs to learn better ways of communicating his needs at all levels of life. 

He seems to be giving away secrets that he has learned over the years. He needs to fix his communication issues post haste. He is headed down a dark alley if he doesn't. 

Good luck. I hope you can get him to talk to someone. It will make his life more satisfying and yours too.


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