# Is this something or nothing?



## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Sorry, this is lengthy. I already know what I want and what I’m working towards, but I would like input and advice. Here’s my story.
My wife and I have been married for 11 years with our 12th coming up, and we have one son. We have so much in common that we’ve never had a dull moment, there’s always something for us to do together. While things haven’t always been the best (no marriage or relationship is), I’ve always loved spending time with her. A few years back we had a disagreement about our families, since then I’ve tried to be patient and understanding, but conflicts would arise on occasion leaving me to feel like my thoughts didn’t matter. We’ve both been doormats to everyone else, losing confidence in ourselves and have both spent the last few years in and out of depression. Well, we’re finally getting on top of that, and I had thought (key word there) that these years together were going just fine until a few months ago. 

She lays out this ultimatum of sorts, we need to find ourselves and explore, if we don’t try harder we will lose each other. We start going to our own separate counselors, and I feel like things are moving forward pretty good. We used to sell hand made leather horse tack, and would frequently take short trips out of town together to deliver. One day work got in the way (this happened just before the Ultimatum), and I couldn’t go so she went by herself to deliver the tack to a new customer we met, a nice guy, mid-thirties (about 6 years older than us). He quickly becomes a friend and she continues to this day to talk to him. Well I begin to notice her acting out of the ordinary. It went from us keeping our phones charging in the bathroom each night, to her hiding it in the bed. She would change screens when I got close, she would laugh in the other room, when I came to investigate she would be texting, I would sneak up behind her, see his name, and she would quickly shake it off as nothing or try to switch to her Facebook app mid text. 

I got brave one night and snuck her phone out from under the blankets to check the texts, texts would go from first thing in the morning, to just before she came into the bedroom to bed, with conversations appearing to make no sense with gaps or long periods of time without texts when I already knew there were texts (the conversations present were normal friendly things.) We went out one night to play frisbee in the park across from our house, I had to go in for a drink, but thought on my way back I would play PI and do the sneaky sneak behind her, she was busy watching towards the house and didn’t see me sneak up. I come up behind and she’s texting again (texts always seem innocent but have winky faces). I see part of a picture, nothing strange about it, but when I say hello she jumps and quickly exits the text, she’s very visibly shaken, her hands are shaking trying to show me a picture she just took of herself. At this point I decide to keep a constant eye on her phone so I pair it with my computer. At one point I notice that as I’m reading the texts being sent they are being quickly deleted, even perfectly innocent ones. One text read something like “you’re so flirty and sweet, you’re in my head and I need to know how you feel about me”. She had come into the room so I had to exit, it was probably midnight, she was texting so I asked who it was, it took her a minute to reply with an honest answer, I think its far too late for “friends” to be texting so I say so and ask what they are talking about, she says something I can’t even remember, so I ask to see because this late at night is suspicious to me. She says, “well I just deleted them so I have nothing to show, but don’t worry we’re JUST friends, and I’ve deleted texts because I know you can get jealous and are sensitive so I’m looking out for your feelings.” This continues, even though I asked her not to text so late, she will find an excuse to leave the room and the phone is glued to her side. One night she tells me I love you but I’m not in love with you, and I haven’t been in years and I’m just realizing it. I felt so shocked and hurt and confused as to what had gone wrong. She says we can work on getting back to that point, but watching the phone records (because my computer was disconnected from her phone and I can’t get into her phone), she’s still texting from sunup to sundown with OM. I forgot to add, I told her if there was nothing to hide, I will just ask him to show me the texts or I want to recover the texts, she says "oh so now you don't trust me". Thoughts?


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

I also forgot to add that while we're finding ourselves, I've been friend zoned.


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## Beach123

Uh, she’s involved with this OM! And she plans (or has) to cheat on you.

tell her you’re divorcing her if she doesn’t stop all forms of contacting him NOW!

is he married? If so, contact his wife now!

and if she unwilling to end it - file for divorce immediately - begging someone to be a decent spouse never works well.

If she won’t stop, cut off all her basic luxuries... credit cards, bank accounts etc - pack her a bag and tell her you do not expect to live with any woman that’s spending all her time focused on another man... have her move out immediately.

if you aren’t showing strength with swift and harsh consequences - she will take control - and it won’t be pretty.

protect yourself - she is about to blow up your whole world!


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## Beach123

Get the book “Not Just friends”


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

It's obvious she's started an EA at minimum with the guy, or a guy.

You've got some hard decisions coming my friend.

It's best not to be a doormat here but take a firm stand.


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## Marduk

I see three paths ahead of you:

Path A: "Wife, I've read your texts, and I know what you've been writing. You can be mad at me all you like, but we both know what you've been texting each other. So we can either end this marriage here and now, or this relationship ends here and now." She'll blow her lid, call you controlling, blah blah blah. Even for years, she'll probably bring it out, but she will also probably give in and stay married to you, if only because the other man hasn't yet given her something to cling to.

Path B: "Wife, please come back to this marriage, I'll do anything, I need you and love you!" This will likely result in her running to the other guy even faster. 

Path C: you grab her phone when you have a moment, take a backup, recover all the texts, print them all out, and _then_ confront her. You do the same as A, but with evidence. She'll still flip out, but when it lands one way or the other, it will be cleaner. 

I recommend path C. However, I also recommend you come into it with a mindset that this marriage is over and she is gone, because once you hear "I love you but I'm not in love with you," it means "I want to leave you but I still want you to know I care about you, just in some abstract, non-romantic sense, and not enough to stay around you much longer."


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## hubbyintrubby

Um yes.......this is most definitely something. Something big. I'm very sorry you're going through this.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

I would check the phone but it now has a new passcode to get into it. And one text from the OM to her said they were just friends when she asked about his feelings. I mentioned it could have turned into and EA even if she hadn't meant for it to happen, ya know sometimes people can become infatuated with someone for different reasons. She's firm that she's not cheating and admitted they had exchanged a lot of flirting texts, but he's just a friend. I can't shake the feeling she really is emotionally attached.


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## hubbyintrubby

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> I would check the phone but it now has a new passcode to get into it. And one text from the OM to her said they were just friends when she asked about his feelings. I mentioned it could have turned into and EA even if she hadn't meant for it to happen, ya know sometimes people can become infatuated with someone for different reasons. She's firm that she's not cheating and admitted they had exchanged a lot of flirting texts, but he's just a friend. I can't shake the feeling she really is emotionally attached.


Where there is smoke, there is fire. She's got the lighter.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

It can't be physical either because he lives a few states away. He had traveled to a town a few hours away for personal reasons, which is why she was able to go meet him with the tack he bought from us. She doesn't leave town.


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## sunsetmist

She is Emotionally Attached.. Read about limerance. She is sliding down the slippery slope of infidelity. Ask her to cut all contact. If she refuses, you've got an answer--he means more than you as she has already told you--IYBINILWY....

ACT NOW, FIRMLY.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Sorry to say, not physical as far as you know.

But you don't know all and the trickle truth is a path most caught WS take.

And, she now has the taste of excitment she feels when conversing or meeting with a new man or men.

Not something to be taken lightly.


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## jlg07

If you DO confront her, don't let her tell you that this is NOT an affair -- it certainly is. It is at the very LEAST an Emotional affair, and a very deep one at that.
She IS cheating -- no doubt about it. I hope you kept copies of what she is/was doing from her phone.
She will try to tell everyone (family/friends) that you "just grew apart" or "he wasn't paying attention to me.." type of stuff -- that's called re-writing your marital history. DO NOT let her do that. If you separate, make sure everyone knows it's because she was cheating with this guy.

Does this guy have a wife/gf? You do need to tell them also.


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## Marc878

As of right now you are still Mr Nice Guy. Better wake up or you are in for more and worse.


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## Yeswecan

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> I would check the phone but it now has a new passcode to get into it. And one text from the OM to her said they were just friends when she asked about his feelings. I mentioned it could have turned into and EA even if she hadn't meant for it to happen, ya know sometimes people can become infatuated with someone for different reasons. She's firm that she's not cheating and admitted they had exchanged a lot of flirting texts, but he's just a friend. I can't shake the feeling she really is emotionally attached.


She is in a EA. NO doubt. I love you but not in love with you declaration is the first step. Next it will be what a crappy H you have been. Time is now my friend to get involved with the "just friends" crap sandwich you are being fed. BTW, there is no privacy in marriage. This includes looking at each others phones. Get evidence. Purchase the book, Not Just Friends. Toss the copy on your W lap and demand she reads.


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## hinterdir

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Sorry, this is lengthy. I already know what I want and what I’m working towards, but I would like input and advice. Here’s my story.
> My wife and I have been married for 11 years with our 12th coming up, and we have one son. We have so much in common that we’ve never had a dull moment, there’s always something for us to do together. While things haven’t always been the best (no marriage or relationship is), I’ve always loved spending time with her. A few years back we had a disagreement about our families, since then I’ve tried to be patient and understanding, but conflicts would arise on occasion leaving me to feel like my thoughts didn’t matter. We’ve both been doormats to everyone else, losing confidence in ourselves and have both spent the last few years in and out of depression. Well, we’re finally getting on top of that, and I had thought (key word there) that these years together were going just fine until a few months ago.
> 
> She lays out this ultimatum of sorts, we need to find ourselves and explore, if we don’t try harder we will lose each other. We start going to our own separate counselors, and I feel like things are moving forward pretty good. We used to sell hand made leather horse tack, and would frequently take short trips out of town together to deliver. One day work got in the way (this happened just before the Ultimatum), and I couldn’t go so she went by herself to deliver the tack to a new customer we met, a nice guy, mid-thirties (about 6 years older than us). He quickly becomes a friend and she continues to this day to talk to him. Well I begin to notice her acting out of the ordinary. It went from us keeping our phones charging in the bathroom each night, to her hiding it in the bed. She would change screens when I got close, she would laugh in the other room, when I came to investigate she would be texting, I would sneak up behind her, see his name, and she would quickly shake it off as nothing or try to switch to her Facebook app mid text.
> 
> I got brave one night and snuck her phone out from under the blankets to check the texts, texts would go from first thing in the morning, to just before she came into the bedroom to bed, with conversations appearing to make no sense with gaps or long periods of time without texts when I already knew there were texts (the conversations present were normal friendly things.) We went out one night to play frisbee in the park across from our house, I had to go in for a drink, but thought on my way back I would play PI and do the sneaky sneak behind her, she was busy watching towards the house and didn’t see me sneak up. I come up behind and she’s texting again (texts always seem innocent but have winky faces). I see part of a picture, nothing strange about it, but when I say hello she jumps and quickly exits the text, she’s very visibly shaken, her hands are shaking trying to show me a picture she just took of herself. At this point I decide to keep a constant eye on her phone so I pair it with my computer. At one point I notice that as I’m reading the texts being sent they are being quickly deleted, even perfectly innocent ones. One text read something like “you’re so flirty and sweet, you’re in my head and I need to know how you feel about me”. She had come into the room so I had to exit, it was probably midnight, she was texting so I asked who it was, it took her a minute to reply with an honest answer, I think its far too late for “friends” to be texting so I say so and ask what they are talking about, she says something I can’t even remember, so I ask to see because this late at night is suspicious to me. She says, “well I just deleted them so I have nothing to show, but don’t worry we’re JUST friends, and I’ve deleted texts because I know you can get jealous and are sensitive so I’m looking out for your feelings.” This continues, even though I asked her not to text so late, she will find an excuse to leave the room and the phone is glued to her side. One night she tells me I love you but I’m not in love with you, and I haven’t been in years and I’m just realizing it. I felt so shocked and hurt and confused as to what had gone wrong. She says we can work on getting back to that point, but watching the phone records (because my computer was disconnected from her phone and I can’t get into her phone), she’s still texting from sunup to sundown with OM. I forgot to add, I told her if there was nothing to hide, I will just ask him to show me the texts or I want to recover the texts, she says "oh so now you don't trust me". Thoughts?



Well, everyone has their own boundaries.
Your wife has LOOOOOOOOOOONG AGO passed boundaries that I would accept.
I would have an intervention, so to speak, and she would end all texting, relationships, friendships with this other man....or men. The phones are left setting on the table and out in the open (no texting all day long and keeping it with you) and I get to see everything on her phone at the drop of a hat any time I request it.
I very sternly tell her I 100% consider this inappropriate, out of bounds....an emotional affair, as the husband and on behalf of the MARRIAGE we are each expected to honor and put above ourselves I tell her it is hurting me, hurting our marriage, gives me pain and worry, stress, anxiety and that she drops this friendship and all contact immediately. I do not ACCEPT any of her push back or excuses because they are all meaningless crap to me.
Furthermore she is not to make any business trips by herself as she has proven 100% that she cannot be trusted.
The bottom line is....I just refuse to have this in my life. I refuse to live with the drama and hurt.

Lastly I actually mean it. I mean it to the core of my being. If she doesn't immediately accept it, shows concern, remorse that she is hurting the marriage and acting inappropriately and willingly give up ANOTHER MAN at the request of her husband and become completely transparent then I mean what I say.....I WILL NOT LIVE LIKE THIS AND WILL NOT HAVE IT IN MY LIFE.......I love myself and will not settle for crap.

I 100% divorce her and close my heart and turn my back on her. She becomes dead to me and never even talk to her again (unless the divorce procedures require some minimal business dealings)

So many people on here drives me nuts and I feel like pulling my hair out sometimes listening to or "reading" all the stuff they accept....they are miserable, paranoid, tense, stressed, hurting, full of anxiety and drama.....they fret and worry while their spouse is doing shady stuff or making selfish decisions that hurt their mate but the mate just takes it under some guise of not being "controlling" or trust or freedom or whatever.

PUT A STOP TO IT RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!
Friday May first at 3:50p.m. EST.
Do not go to bed tonight until this is 100% settled and she understands 100% your feelings, that she is hurting the marriage, you will not accept it and she stops it ALL immediately.......OR
you head to a lawyer by early next week and serve her with divorce papers.

I'm dead, freaking serious. Do not accept any of this crap.

Not in love with you?
Cry me a freaking river. That is a load of crap. All people can fall out of love and few feel in love for loooooong marriages.
Does she expect to feel butterflies like when you first started dating....for 30-50 years straight?
Feeling in love all the time isn't a prerequisite for marriage.
All you can do about that is to work at it. Staying "in love" takes a lot of freaking work.
Express love to each other continuously in each others love language.
Stay fit and healthy and try to be attractive, clean and hygienic for each other, dress nice, take pride in your appearance.
Date and court each other forever. Always go out and do things together and try new things and visit new places and surprise each other.
You each have to continually work at it to keep romance alive and not let habits and boredom and routine set in. That still isn't an automatic out for the marriage.

Do not be afraid to divorce her. Do not fear anything.
There is NO REASON at at all you have to accept this for even one more day.

Take the initiative right now. YOU are her husband. She has promised all of herself TO YOU.......above all other men on Earth.
You have no obligation to accept her having affection and too much attention and personal time with ANY OTHER MAN (family issues and dad's and brothers of course do not really apply to this)

Be a strong man. Decide to not accept this in your life and marriage and take non-negotiable action immediately. If she chooses this man, her selfishness, her freedom, her rights and all that over honoring your as her husband and getting rid of anything that is hurting the marriage....then DIVORCE HER.

DO NOT SETTLE.


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## TAMAT

NoMore,

You wrote, *One day work got in the way (this happened just before the Ultimatum), and I couldn’t go so she went by herself to deliver the tack to a new customer we met, a nice guy, mid-thirties (about 6 years older than us). He quickly becomes a friend and she continues to this day to talk to him *

This is not uncommon, on here and in my experience OM types work very fast and know how to seduce a woman emotionally. I would suspect your WW is not the only woman this man is grooming for a phyical affair partner so your WW is nothing special to him as she now believes.

You will lose your WW and possibly half or more of your wealth to a man who is going to destroy her life then drop her like garbage, he might stick around long enought to drink all her money if that counts as loyalty.

Your WW is already ready to have sex with him if it hasn't happened, where there is an addiction there is a way.

You need to get the dirt on this OM.


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## VladDracul

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> I forgot to add, I told her if there was nothing to hide, I will just ask him to show me the texts or I want to recover the texts, she says "oh so now you don't trust me". Thoughts?


When an innocent person is accused, they'll give a direct, "not no but hell no". When they try to distance themselves by answering a question with another question and accusing you, they are likely deceitful. Hidding a phone from an SO always indicates deceit. Take it from there Dawg.


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## Tdbo

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> I would check the phone but it now has a new passcode to get into it. And one text from the OM to her said they were just friends when she asked about his feelings. I mentioned it could have turned into and EA even if she hadn't meant for it to happen, ya know sometimes people can become infatuated with someone for different reasons. She's firm that she's not cheating and admitted they had exchanged a lot of flirting texts, but he's just a friend. I can't shake the feeling she really is emotionally attached.


Tell her seeing is believing, give up the passcode.
Tell her she gives it up, or her inaction is proving she is cheating.
Tell her if she leaves the room with that phone, you will assist her in packing, and then you call loverboy and inform him that she is on her way and he can pick her up at the bus station.
If this doesn't appeal to you, anything that shows swift, decisive, take no **** action will suffice.
Study up on the 180. Prepare to implement it.


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## BluesPower

Tdbo said:


> Tell her seeing is believing, give up the passcode.
> Tell her she gives it up, or her inaction is proving she is cheating.
> Tell her if she leaves the room with that phone, you will assist her in packing, and then you call loverboy and inform him that she is on her way and he can pick her up at the bus station.
> If this doesn't appeal to you, anything that shows swift, decisive, take no **** action will suffice.
> Study up on the 180. Prepare to implement it.


No have to disagree here. He should just file for divorce.


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## Tdbo

BluesPower said:


> No have to disagree here. He should just file for divorce.


That's ultimately his call.
I was responding as to how he could get his wife to give up the passcode.
IMO, he already got his answer when she changed the passcode.
If she gives it up, there may be something to work with.
I'll agree with you that if I were in his position, I would lawyer up and go from there.
However, it is still his call and he needs to proceed in a manner that is right for him and his kid.
However, he better do it PDQ.


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## EleGirl

I agree with the others here.

Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It will give you the steps you need to take.

There is however a cavate that I'd like to give. The books talks about Plan A and Plan B. You have been doing Plan A for a long time. You need to start Plan B (which is also called the 180) See the links in my signature block below. You need to be interacting with her according to the 180 (Plan B). 

The idea is to tell her that she has to end all contact with him or the marriage is over. Then start the 180. The idea of the 180 is to take yourself out of her life as much as possible. If she ends contact good, then you two can work on repairing your marriage. If on the other hand, with the 180, you fall out of love with her before she ends this nonsense, file for divorce.

The book gives you more details of things you need to do. For example, because of this going forward, she has to provide you will all of the passwords to all of her online and cell phone accounts. She has to agree that you can checkup on it at anytime. Also, you need to give her the same access to your accounts. Why? Because about 50% of betrayed spouses end up having revenge affairs. Also because she cannot blame you of being controlling if you are 100% transparent to her.

I also agree that you need to get the book "Not Just Friends". You both need to read it.


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## MattMatt

@No-MoreMr.NiceGuy It's perhaps not physical. Yet. It's perhaps not physical, with him, but she has revealed a propensity to cheat so she might have a physical affair with someone in the future. If she hasn't already.


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## sunsetmist

Female here: She is no longer in love with you and is looking for the excitement of new relationship. In her mind right now she has done nothing wrong YET. She does not know about Emotional Affairs and will deny, deny, deny. She really believes this. But she is obsessed. 

How old is your son?

Some of the folks here have given you strong advice. What do you have to lose since she is already 'shopping' for her next guy. Don't debate, or wait, or it will be too late.


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## Tilted 1

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Sorry, this is lengthy. I already know what I want and what I’m working towards, but I would like input and advice. Here’s my story.
> My wife and I have been married for 11 years with our 12th coming up, and we have one son. We have so much in common that we’ve never had a dull moment, there’s always something for us to do together. While things haven’t always been the best (no marriage or relationship is), I’ve always loved spending time with her. A few years back we had a disagreement about our families, since then I’ve tried to be patient and understanding, but conflicts would arise on occasion leaving me to feel like my thoughts didn’t matter. We’ve both been doormats to everyone else, losing confidence in ourselves and have both spent the last few years in and out of depression. Well, we’re finally getting on top of that, and I had thought (key word there) that these years together were going just fine until a few months ago.
> 
> She lays out this ultimatum of sorts, we need to find ourselves and explore, if we don’t try harder we will lose each other. We start going to our own separate counselors, and I feel like things are moving forward pretty good. We used to sell hand made leather horse tack, and would frequently take short trips out of town together to deliver. One day work got in the way (this happened just before the Ultimatum), and I couldn’t go so she went by herself to deliver the tack to a new customer we met, a nice guy, mid-thirties (about 6 years older than us). He quickly becomes a friend and she continues to this day to talk to him. Well I begin to notice her acting out of the ordinary. It went from us keeping our phones charging in the bathroom each night, to her hiding it in the bed. She would change screens when I got close, she would laugh in the other room, when I came to investigate she would be texting, I would sneak up behind her, see his name, and she would quickly shake it off as nothing or try to switch to her Facebook app mid text.
> 
> I got brave one night and snuck her phone out from under the blankets to check the texts, texts would go from first thing in the morning, to just before she came into the bedroom to bed, with conversations appearing to make no sense with gaps or long periods of time without texts when I already knew there were texts (the conversations present were normal friendly things.) We went out one night to play frisbee in the park across from our house, I had to go in for a drink, but thought on my way back I would play PI and do the sneaky sneak behind her, she was busy watching towards the house and didn’t see me sneak up. I come up behind and she’s texting again (texts always seem innocent but have winky faces). I see part of a picture, nothing strange about it, but when I say hello she jumps and quickly exits the text, she’s very visibly shaken, her hands are shaking trying to show me a picture she just took of herself. At this point I decide to keep a constant eye on her phone so I pair it with my computer. At one point I notice that as I’m reading the texts being sent they are being quickly deleted, even perfectly innocent ones. One text read something like “you’re so flirty and sweet, you’re in my head and I need to know how you feel about me”. She had come into the room so I had to exit, it was probably midnight, she was texting so I asked who it was, it took her a minute to reply with an honest answer, I think its far too late for “friends” to be texting so I say so and ask what they are talking about, she says something I can’t even remember, so I ask to see because this late at night is suspicious to me. She says, “well I just deleted them so I have nothing to show, but don’t worry we’re JUST friends, and I’ve deleted texts because I know you can get jealous and are sensitive so I’m looking out for your feelings.” This continues, even though I asked her not to text so late, she will find an excuse to leave the room and the phone is glued to her side. One night she tells me I love you but I’m not in love with you, and I haven’t been in years and I’m just realizing it. I felt so shocked and hurt and confused as to what had gone wrong. She says we can work on getting back to that point, but watching the phone records (because my computer was disconnected from her phone and I can’t get into her phone), she’s still texting from sunup to sundown with OM. I forgot to add, I told her if there was nothing to hide, I will just ask him to show me the texts or I want to recover the texts, she says "oh so now you don't trust me". Thoughts?


Well, you received the ILYBNILWY, and she has her new man on her mind. Nothing you can do. Your in the mud spinning. Call it done! she has no reason to give you something she has "ln Love with Another" you were hanging on by a thread by the way.


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## hinterdir

TAMAT said:


> NoMore,
> 
> You wrote, *One day work got in the way (this happened just before the Ultimatum), and I couldn’t go so she went by herself to deliver the tack to a new customer we met, a nice guy, mid-thirties (about 6 years older than us). He quickly becomes a friend and she continues to this day to talk to him *
> 
> This is not uncommon, on here and in my experience OM types work very fast and know how to seduce a woman emotionally. I would suspect your WW is not the only woman this man is grooming for a phyical affair partner so your WW is nothing special to him as she now believes.
> 
> You will lose your WW and possibly half or more of your wealth to a man who is going to destroy her life then drop her like garbage, he might stick around long enought to drink all her money if that counts as loyalty.
> 
> Your WW is already ready to have sex with him if it hasn't happened, where there is an addiction there is a way.
> 
> You need to get the dirt on this OM.





Tdbo said:


> That's ultimately his call.
> I was responding as to how he could get his wife to give up the passcode.
> IMO, he already got his answer when she changed the passcode.
> If she gives it up, there may be something to work with.
> I'll agree with you that if I were in his position, I would lawyer up and go from there.
> However, it is still his call and he needs to proceed in a manner that is right for him and his kid.
> However, he better do it PDQ.


I do not think any married couple should keep private phones from each other.
Any spouse should be able to see the others phone any time with no issue at all.
A spouse is a fool to accept "private" phones.....you can't see it.....no it is private.
I wouldn't accept that at all. 
Giving up full access to the phone......non-negotiable.
Going no contact with other man.....non-negotiable
No more work deliveries by herself.....non-negotiable.
That is if this is just emotional.
If they've ever touched physically? Divorce, nothing to save, non-negotiable. 

All of this should be settled TONIGHT. 
Either she concedes to all of this tonight or divorce proceedings start Monday......NON-NEGOTIABLE.

You people crack me up that keep phones private from each other.


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## sunsetmist

Should be in the marriage vows. "For better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part with open access to my life."

Oh. I just realized vows don't mean so much to some folks.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy

Once she gave you the ILBINILWY, it’s pretty much over. Sorry to be so blunt. The only way you get her back if you make her pick between you and anyone else. You must be willing to loose it all tho.


----------



## Openminded

Yeah, sounds like she’s ready to move on. Whether her bf has long term interest in her or not is the question. Women don’t usually cheat for just sex. Feelings are involved and often women are willing to leave their marriage to keep those feelings. Unfortunately for them, their AP is likely to only be interested in sex and not a relationship. So guess what happens? Suddenly they decide they’re really in love with their husbands after all and now they want desperately to R because it was all just a big mistake. And their husbands buy it because they want to believe it. Sometimes it does turn out okay but many times it doesn’t.

If I could tell men one thing about women? Never underestimate how manipulative many of us can be. And if we’re at all narcissistic, well, run as fast as you can.


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## Tdbo

hinterdir said:


> I do not think any married couple should keep private phones from each other.
> Any spouse should be able to see the others phone any time with no issue at all.
> A spouse is a fool to accept "private" phones.....you can't see it.....no it is private.
> I wouldn't accept that at all.
> Giving up full access to the phone......non-negotiable.
> Going no contact with other man.....non-negotiable
> No more work deliveries by herself.....non-negotiable.
> That is if this is just emotional.
> If they've ever touched physically? Divorce, nothing to save, non-negotiable.
> 
> All of this should be settled TONIGHT.
> Either she concedes to all of this tonight or divorce proceedings start Monday......NON-NEGOTIABLE.
> 
> You people crack me up that keep phones private from each other


Where did I say that a married couple should keep phones private from each other?
Hell, I 'm the one that said she gives it up or she's packed and on the next bus to ponyboy.
I could walk across the room and pick up my wife's phone without her permission and go through it without reprisal.
I know her password. It is the exact same password she had when we got our first iphones.
Same goes for me. I have nothing to hide.
There have been times where I have commented that she spent too much time on her phone.
She brought it over and made me go through it. RIGHT THEN.
When someone changes their phone password without a valid, verifiable security concern, IMO, they make a statement.
That statement is that they have something to hide. She couldn't have made herself look any more guilty if she tried. She would have looked better giving herself up.
IMO, Monday would be the day for the attorney. Today would be the day she has her bags in hand and out the door.


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## Beach123

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> I would check the phone but it now has a new passcode to get into it. And one text from the OM to her said they were just friends when she asked about his feelings. I mentioned it could have turned into and EA even if she hadn't meant for it to happen, ya know sometimes people can become infatuated with someone for different reasons. She's firm that she's not cheating and admitted they had exchanged a lot of flirting texts, but he's just a friend. I can't shake the feeling she really is emotionally attached.


 Stop thinking she’s not cheating! No one spends this much time communicating with someone when they aren’t overly interested - she is obsessed!

and she is playing you for a fool! 
stop allowing it! 
pack her bag and tell her to “get out now!”


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## faithfulman

YOU KNOW SHE IS CHEATING!

I agree with others who say serve her papers and if she wants to stay in the marriage, she needs to meet certain requirements, like handing over the phone right this moment.

Her excuse about deleting texts "because of you" is so weak it is unbelievable and you know it is total ********.

My preference is that you get her passcode somehow and run the recovery on her phone (shoulda done it before!) and see what's what.

If she is on an iPhone, you may also be able to recover texts and other materials from her iCloud account, which has different login information from her phone's passcode - it will be her email address and a password, and you can also try to see if you can recover backups on her computer if she ever does that.

Also, if you can get into her iCloud, you can monitor and save her texts in real-time without her ever knowing.

But again, YOU KNOW SHE IS CHEATING! Finding this information is more about gaining an upper hand and cutting through her ********.

Finally, it sounds like you are relatively young - in your 20s? and have no kids.

Maybe you don't want to be with this low-grade person for the rest of your life?

Give that some serious thought. People like this will often only bring more and more pain to your life.


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## hinterdir

Tdbo said:


> Where did I say that a married couple should keep phones private from each other?
> Hell, I 'm the one that said she gives it up or she's packed and on the next bus to ponyboy.
> I could walk across the room and pick up my wife's phone without her permission and go through it without reprisal.
> I know her password. It is the exact same password she had when we got our first iphones.
> Same goes for me. I have nothing to hide.
> There have been times where I have commented that she spent too much time on her phone.
> She brought it over and made me go through it. RIGHT THEN.
> When someone changes their phone password without a valid, verifiable security concern, IMO, they make a statement.
> That statement is that they have something to hide. She couldn't have made herself look any more guilty if she tried. She would have looked better giving herself up.
> IMO, Monday would be the day for the attorney. Today would be the day she has her bags in hand and out the door.


Eh,
I wasn't really challenging you...I just used your mention of her and passwords to springboard into the overall encompassing theme of how so many stories on these boards involve one spouse keeping their phone a secret and they are on it all the time, texting endlessly and the other spouse couldn't even get on it if they want to and to them that just seems normal. I read one the other day where the guy is sure his wife is cheating and holds onto the I cannot let anyone see my phone because it has client work info on there and it is confidential. The guy acts as if "oh well, nothing I can do". Well if he starts trying to get account numbers and asset figures and stuff then you can pull the reins in but him seeing all of her texts, pictures and history should be non-negotiable and her refusing should be all the proof he needs and he should divorce. I think he is still fumbling around though acting all weak and that leaving that woman is too much for him. 

So many married couples treat their phone as if it is sacred ground and for their spouse to see it or have any idea of what is going on there is just shocking to them.
Back to this guy and his case....like I've already said, her becoming 100% transparent with everything on her phone should be non-negotiable or divorce.

This entire concept of spouses living this private phone world that their mate isn't allowed to ever know about or see and they live that out like it is fine ist UNGLAUBLICH und ich verstehe es nicht.


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## OutofRetirement

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> A few years back we had a disagreement about our families, since then I’ve tried to be patient and understanding, but conflicts would arise on occasion leaving me to feel like my thoughts didn’t matter. We’ve both been doormats to everyone else


Can you elaborate?



No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> She lays out this ultimatum of sorts, we need to find ourselves and explore, if we don’t try harder we will lose each other.


Explore what? Find yourselves? You live in the house across from the park, right? What are you both supposedly trying to find? What was the ultimatum? To find yourselves? What does that even mean? Can you elaborate a little.



No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> “you’re so flirty and sweet, you’re in my head and I need to know how you feel about me”.


That doesn't mean she didn't have sex. Usually ILYBINILWY occurs after being "in love" with someone else happens. Usually sex is involved. I would wonder if she knew this guy before her trip. I also know that men will travel and pay money for sex, especially some good exciting strange, and affair partners have been known to have some good wild sex. Outside the routine of marriage sex, they feel they can get their freak on, and step outside their normal limits.

Did you ever hear of a truly platonic friend text all day and all night and hide it and delete? Did your wife ever text someone that much ever in her whole life before now? Did she do it with you during courting even? Let's face it, no one is spending that much time unless they have sexual urges pushing them.

Your timeline does not add up. She would not be ILYBINILWY just after meeting him without sex. Maybe she had some flirtiness leading up to that trip in the messaging and they did something on the trip, and now she was asking him how he feels about her, after the fact. Meaning she knows he wants sex, but she wants to know does he lover her, too. To be sure, it's theoretically possible, but not usual, not likely. You have some missing jigsaw pieces as to what led up to the ILYBINILWY and ultimatum and so-called "friend zoning" in a 12-year marriage.


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## OutofRetirement

Go on Chicago's post and read his first entry and see how many similarities there are. Then read the whole thing, that's your future.


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## Beach123

What’s the update? What action are YOU taking OP - to take charge of the mess your wife has laid at your feet?


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## [email protected]

Nomore, I agree with Faithfulman. File on her.


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## Buffer

Brother, you have to stop enabling her in this EA or A. Take stock, she has pulled away, given you the I love you but... You should have no trust with her now. Texting at midnight, deleting texts, photos. Na no trust here, Assume the worst, believe nothing, check everything. She is already sorting out what silverware to grab.
Cease all joint accounts now, close the joint checking account, cancel all joint credit cards. If she has a separate cc or checking leave that. Once done then inform her that any joint debt needs to be addressed. She may ask why? Because you have left the marriage.
Legal advice is a must, you need to know your rights as well as her responsibilities.
Eat healthy, drink water, if you can exercise even if it is just a walk around the block, so to clear your mind. She will gaslight you, try to manipulate you, deny, deny, deny.
She will call you names, telling you how untrusting you have become, even re write the marriage to back up her claims.
To move forward she can either provide her phone to a data recovery service so you can see all deleted texts and deleted photos, or you file D. No begging or bartering here.
Start the 180 when you confront her about the financials and take it from there.
The adage when there is smoke, there is fire 🔥 I see fire here. You love, want her but you cannot bring her back being Mr Nice Guy. To save your marriage you have to be willing to loos it. Dis engage from her, short conversations only. No pick me dance here! She will choose the OM.
One day at a time
Buffer


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## aine

She’s in the middle of an emotional affair, an AFFAIR!
you must take action. Get the evidence off her phone.
go see a lawyer, get papers, blow up her world. Find out if OM is married, tell his wife.
Tell your family and her family, she’s in an affair and you are planning divorce.
leave the papers in the dining room and tell her you have had enough of being disrespected and friend zoned and will give her what she wants.
in the meantime start getting fit, nice haircut, new clothes, go out more without her and show her you are moving on, doing the 180 on her.
REMEMBER you have to be prepared to lose this marriage to save it, providing it’s worth saving.


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## MattMatt

ILVBINILWY can happen in a marriage. But it is perfectly possible to have a good, loving relationship under such circumstances.

But *not *if one spouse is having a physical or emotional affair with someone else.

Too many times the affair begins and then the loyal and lied to cheated upon spouse gets the ILYBINILWY speech, which under those circumstances is a load of hooey.

In a relationship there is a Bank of Love and each spouse puts their Love Currency into the bank and their spouse can draw on the Bank of Love.

Unfortunately the cheating spouse clones their loyal spouse's ATM card and gives it to their AP and the loyal partner finds there are insufficient love funds for them to make a withdrawal. 

It's fraud on the loyal spouse and needs to be stopped.


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## Robert22205

Here's a couple of thoughts to reply to your wife:

1 - People with nothing to hide - hide nothing.

2 - Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Your wife's secret texting and her statement that she's not in love with you - is a big fail on her part. Now she must do whatever you need to restore trust.

3 - As her spouse all those texts and emotional energy spent on the OM - should have been directed to you.


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## Robert22205

You can not over react to her texting. Your wife thinks she's in love with the OM and she's addicted to texting and will not be able to stop contact easily or on her own. You are going to have to rock her world to pull her out of her fog.

Texting is absolutely a serious threat to your marriage. 

Studies show that texting is addictive. Studies show that texting triggers the same parts of the brain as face to face conversation - and triggers the same kind of 'feel good' response/high as cocaine.


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## Robert22205

Do not do the "Pick Me Dance" or cry or beg (or respond to their outrage & counter attacks). It doesn’t work (just the opposite). Experience shows that you’ll be viewed as ‘weak’. In their current state of mind, weakness is interpreted as a free pass to continue the affair. And she is having an emotional affair that is a slippery slope towards sex.

Do not respond to the attempt to blame shift or claim an invasion of privacy or controlling her. She can pick her own friends - just not another man. Every marriage has issues but she is 100% responsible for her decision to cope by turning to the OM.

It's unfair for her to compare you to the OM. A spouse (and marriage life in general), can never compete with the emotional excitement of an AP, the high from the AP’s compliments, feeling young again, and the false mental image of the ‘perfect’ fantasy lover/partner created by your spouse. The OM has all the excitement of a new car vs a 11 yo family van (that's you).

In order for her to take you seriously, she has to believe you will divorce her (bluff if necessary) rather than tolerate her relationship with the OM. 

1 - She must go 100% NC. Why? because every time she texts or even sees him on the street her feelings re-ignite for him. 

NC is the consequence she brought on herself for allowing herself to get involved and sending inappropriate texts with the OM. 

2 - She must provide full transparency with her phone. Why? because she's been deceitful by deleting texts that would make you jealous. If the texts would make you jealous - then they are inappropriate!

3 - This is very emotional. If you have difficulty verbalizing your thoughts to her , then write them down.


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## Robert22205

I suggest you both read the book: "Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass

It's an easy read that based on research of couples that experienced infidelity (and how it happened).
"Good" people have affairs and it's important to learn from the mistakes of others. 

This books identifies certain behaviors/friendships that place the marriage at a high risk for infidelity.

After reading this book, your wife will have a difficult time defending her secret texting, deleting texts because she thinks/knows they're inappropriate - and allowing herself in a situation where she's basically comparing you to another man or allowing herself to have an obsessive emotional connection with another man.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Thanks for the advice everyone. I apologize, I was out of town over the weekend and was unable to answer. As of now I have implemented some of the 180 techniques, she thinks she has the upper hand however. Says we need to build up from being friends, in my own marriage, in my own house. All sex has been cutoff, which isn't a game breaker, sure I love sex and the chance to connect with my spouse but its not like I can't wait. What is frustrating about it is I did absolutely nothing to earn it, in fact it should be me blocking her from sex. OM is confirmed just a friend, form texts that I've seen, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still locked out of the phone. I have looked for numerous ways to get into the phone or even restore onto her old phone, but sms backup doesn't see anything in the google drive even though there is a backup there. What gets me is that despite being put into the "friend zone" by her OM, her texting hasn't changed with him in the slightest, other than she no longer texts after about 9 with him (I have access to the phone records). She even told me the other day before I left for the weekend, that he isn't going anywhere. 

I'm in a strange spot here guys. On the one hand, I am a deeply compassionate and empathetic person, this carries into my role as husband. Sure I have been cut off from her emotionally due to many of my own issues (obviously not fair to her), but I believe unlike some here, that she deserves a friend. On the other, I feel like I've been clearly told she won't drop contact. I'm not a jerk or controlling in anyway, so part of me thinks she's wanting me to cross that line as if to taunt me, bring me it to be ambushed? I have deep insomnia now, I sleep a couple of hours each night and awake wondering how I can see the conversation going on, and wondering why she hasn't given me the details I want to know. What do you guys think?


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## BigbadBootyDaddy

Your Commitment Doesn’t Trump Her Entitlement. Simple as that.
She has no respect for you.


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## OutofRetirement

“you’re so flirty and sweet, you’re in my head and I need to know how you feel about me”. 

The Ostrich Method doesn't work. Stick your head out of the sand. This is not how a friend talks to another friend.


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## Openminded

He’s more than a friend. He knows it. She knows it. You need to accept it.


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## TDSC60

Is OM married? What do you know about him? Do you have his contact info?

Normally I would not recommend contacting the OM. But in your case, I think I would send him a message and ask if he is in love with your wife. you need to shake things up a bit. You are in a state of limbo because of her and her obsession with him. No marriage, no future, just waiting on her to act. Your marriage is dead at this point. Her love has been transferred to him and you are left with nothing but a room mate. Tell your wife that you want her to be happy so you will file for divorce then she can go to him.

She is choosing him over you, your marriage and your family.

Have some self respect. You are getting no respect from her.


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## Gabriel

No opposite sex friends in a marriage, especially ones that are new. Hard stop, no way. She can go find some girlfriends.

She has a serious crush on this guy, big time. She is smitten and would leave you for him tomorrow if he was interested. Sounds like he likes talking to her and maybe appreciates the ego-boost, but isn't interested in her romantically, or actually has some morals about messing with a married woman.

Cut it off, or end the marriage. This "friendship" and your marriage CANNOT co-exist.


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## OutofRetirement

Your wife is chasing another man.

Most men cannot not run fast enough to get away from a woman chasing them.

I am guessing that your wife will catch him soon if she hasn't caught him already. He was already being "flirty and sweet" when you found that message. It is obvious enough just from that one message about him being in her head that she wants him.


----------



## BluesPower

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. I apologize, I was out of town over the weekend and was unable to answer. As of now I have implemented some of the 180 techniques, she thinks she has the upper hand however. Says we need to build up from being friends, in my own marriage, in my own house. All sex has been cutoff, which isn't a game breaker, sure I love sex and the chance to connect with my spouse but its not like I can't wait. What is frustrating about it is I did absolutely nothing to earn it, in fact it should be me blocking her from sex. OM is confirmed just a friend, form texts that I've seen, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still locked out of the phone. I have looked for numerous ways to get into the phone or even restore onto her old phone, but sms backup doesn't see anything in the google drive even though there is a backup there. What gets me is that despite being put into the "friend zone" by her OM, her texting hasn't changed with him in the slightest, other than she no longer texts after about 9 with him (I have access to the phone records). She even told me the other day before I left for the weekend, that he isn't going anywhere.
> 
> I'm in a strange spot here guys. On the one hand, I am a deeply compassionate and empathetic person, this carries into my role as husband. Sure I have been cut off from her emotionally due to many of my own issues (obviously not fair to her), but I believe unlike some here, that she deserves a friend. On the other, I feel like I've been clearly told she won't drop contact. I'm not a jerk or controlling in anyway, so part of me thinks she's wanting me to cross that line as if to taunt me, bring me it to be ambushed? I have deep insomnia now, I sleep a couple of hours each night and awake wondering how I can see the conversation going on, and wondering why she hasn't given me the details I want to know. What do you guys think?


What do we think? Really? 

You know what everyone, or most think. YOUR WIFE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR and you are allowing it. 

Further, I completely disagree that they have not had sex, please. And she cut you off???

Are you for really OK with all of this. You are compasisonate... WTF?

Look man, you need to file for divorce ASAP. Call a lawyer now, they all need work right now. 

You are being lied to, and you are falling for it. 

Please wake up...


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## Marc878

You should read “ No More Mr Nice Guy” again. You’re in strong denial of what’s going on and keeping yourself firmly in limbo.


----------



## Kamstel2

What would it take her to do for you to say that THAT is the last straw and file?

good luck
Stay strong
And no matter what you do, make sure you are always able to look at yourself in the mirror.


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## Marc878

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> OM is confirmed just a friend, form texts that I've seen, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still locked out of the phone.
> 
> *Nope, you haven’t confirmed a thing. I’m sure your wife’s told you this. Read what you’ve posted below*
> 
> I have looked for numerous ways to get into the phone or even restore onto her old phone, but sms backup doesn't see anything in the google drive even though there is a backup there. What gets me is that despite being put into the "friend zone" by her OM, her texting hasn't changed with him in the slightest, other than she no longer texts after about 9 with him (I have access to the phone records). She even told me the other day before I left for the weekend, that he isn't going anywhere.
> 
> *Were just friends is the biggest lie told.*
> 
> I'm in a strange spot here guys. On the one hand, I am a deeply compassionate and empathetic person, this carries into my role as husband. Sure I have been cut off from her emotionally due to many of my own issues (obviously not fair to her), but I believe unlike some here, that she deserves a friend. On the other, I feel like I've been clearly told she won't drop contact. I'm not a jerk or controlling in anyway, so part of me thinks she's wanting me to cross that line as if to taunt me, bring me it to be ambushed? I have deep insomnia now, I sleep a couple of hours each night and awake wondering how I can see the conversation going on, and wondering why she hasn't given me the details I want to know. What do you guys think?


It’s not strange but pretty typical. You just don’t want to believe it.


----------



## colingrant

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. I apologize, I was out of town over the weekend and was unable to answer. As of now I have implemented some of the 180 techniques,* she thinks she has the upper hand* however. *Says we need to build up from being friends, in my own marriage, in my own house.* All sex has been cutoff, which isn't a game breaker, sure I love sex and the chance to connect with my spouse but its not like I can't wait. What is frustrating about it is I did absolutely nothing to earn it, in fact it should be me blocking her from sex. OM is confirmed just a friend, form texts that I've seen, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still locked out of the phone. I have looked for numerous ways to get into the phone or even restore onto her old phone, but sms backup doesn't see anything in the google drive even though there is a backup there. What gets me is that despite being put into the "friend zone" by her OM, her texting hasn't changed with him in the slightest, other than she no longer texts after about 9 with him (I have access to the phone records). She even told me the other day before I left for the weekend, that he isn't going anywhere.
> 
> I'm in a strange spot here guys. On the one hand, I am a deeply compassionate and empathetic person, this carries into my role as husband. Sure I have been cut off from her emotionally due to many of my own issues (obviously not fair to her), but I believe unlike some here, that she deserves a friend. On the other, *I feel like I've been clearly told she won't drop contact.* I'm not a jerk or controlling in anyway, *so part of me thinks she's wanting me to cross that line as if to taunt me*, bring me it to be ambushed? I have deep insomnia now, I sleep a couple of hours each night and awake wondering how I can see the conversation going on, and wondering why she hasn't given me the details I want to know. What do you guys think?


She is in control. If you don't successfully establish and convey that *you *set the terms, you'll always be responding to her terms and not her responding to yours. Huge difference.


----------



## Marduk

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. I apologize, I was out of town over the weekend and was unable to answer. As of now I have implemented some of the 180 techniques, she thinks she has the upper hand however. Says we need to build up from being friends, in my own marriage, in my own house. All sex has been cutoff, which isn't a game breaker, sure I love sex and the chance to connect with my spouse but its not like I can't wait. What is frustrating about it is I did absolutely nothing to earn it, in fact it should be me blocking her from sex. OM is confirmed just a friend, form texts that I've seen, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still locked out of the phone. I have looked for numerous ways to get into the phone or even restore onto her old phone, but sms backup doesn't see anything in the google drive even though there is a backup there. What gets me is that despite being put into the "friend zone" by her OM, her texting hasn't changed with him in the slightest, other than she no longer texts after about 9 with him (I have access to the phone records). She even told me the other day before I left for the weekend, that he isn't going anywhere.
> 
> I'm in a strange spot here guys. On the one hand, I am a deeply compassionate and empathetic person, this carries into my role as husband. Sure I have been cut off from her emotionally due to many of my own issues (obviously not fair to her), but I believe unlike some here, that she deserves a friend. On the other, I feel like I've been clearly told she won't drop contact. I'm not a jerk or controlling in anyway, so part of me thinks she's wanting me to cross that line as if to taunt me, bring me it to be ambushed? I have deep insomnia now, I sleep a couple of hours each night and awake wondering how I can see the conversation going on, and wondering why she hasn't given me the details I want to know. What do you guys think?


I think that she has you snowed over here.

Her story simply does not compute, and you may think you have the upper hand here, but you don't. The fact that 'he isn't going anywhere' even though your marriage is falling apart tells me everything I need to know.

Start the divorce/separation process. Start acting single. This is far worse than it was last week.


----------



## [email protected]

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. I apologize, I was out of town over the weekend and was unable to answer. As of now I have implemented some of the 180 techniques, she thinks she has the upper hand however. Says we need to build up from being friends, in my own marriage, in my own house. All sex has been cutoff, which isn't a game breaker, sure I love sex and the chance to connect with my spouse but its not like I can't wait. What is frustrating about it is I did absolutely nothing to earn it, in fact it should be me blocking her from sex. OM is confirmed just a friend, form texts that I've seen, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still locked out of the phone. I have looked for numerous ways to get into the phone or even restore onto her old phone, but sms backup doesn't see anything in the google drive even though there is a backup there. What gets me is that despite being put into the "friend zone" by her OM, her texting hasn't changed with him in the slightest, other than she no longer texts after about 9 with him (I have access to the phone records). She even told me the other day before I left for the weekend, that he isn't going anywhere.
> 
> I'm in a strange spot here guys. On the one hand, I am a deeply compassionate and empathetic person, this carries into my role as husband. Sure I have been cut off from her emotionally due to many of my own issues (obviously not fair to her), but I believe unlike some here, that she deserves a friend. On the other, I feel like I've been clearly told she won't drop contact. I'm not a jerk or controlling in anyway, so part of me thinks she's wanting me to cross that line as if to taunt me, bring me it to be ambushed? I have deep insomnia now, I sleep a couple of hours each night and awake wondering how I can see the conversation going on, and wondering why she hasn't given me the details I want to know. What do you guys think?


Good God, Nomore!! You are actually putting up with this crap! You sound like you are rug sweeping! File Now!! Get some backbone!


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## Beach123

This is one situation where you throw your compassionate side out the door and understand fully well she IS THE ENEMY!
She has every intention ruin of destroying your life! Stop being so nice! Protect yourself and kids (if you have them).

do not respond to anything she says except with yes or no answers!

she wants your approval to screw other men - do not be nice about her being messed up!

just divorce her. She isn’t going to change!


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## TDSC60

She is giving him all the time and attention that should be going into your marriage. And telling you she is doing it to Protect you? BS!
She is monkey branching. Making sure she has a firm grip on the next branch (OM) before she lets go of the one she has(you).

Doesn't sound like there is much to save and she is giving you just enough to keep you around......for now. Until she is sure the man she wants is willing to take her.


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## TDSC60

Were the hell did the edit button go??????


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Here is the deal. Take her ****ing phone. Find someone to crack it. Time to grow a pair and take action. She is running the table on you.

Next....EXPOSURE!...POSOMs wife, your family and close friends. She is your enemy right now. I know it is hard to grasp this concept, but time to get real and scorch her world. Blow it up! Ask her to leave. Lastly....180!

Be a man.


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## She'sStillGotIt

TDSC60 said:


> Were the hell did the edit button go??????


LOL. Tap on the 3 small verticall dots on the top right side of your post and choose "edit."


----------



## Buffer

She needs to know where you are at. Tell her in plain English that her actions are leading you to seek legal advice for a formal
separation. Text the OM, tell him his actions toward your wife is unacceptable and is to cease forth with. 
You don’t need her permission. Let her friends and family know she is having at a minimum an EA. 
Buffer


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## Evinrude58

When a woman says They’re not in love with you anymore, my e Perrin day has been that the only possible avenue is to move on, ignoring the horror/pain that inevitably comes with it, and such that will likely last a year, not pass fully for at least a couple after no contact.
Realize that it’s not you she’s texting daylight to dark, it’s him. Yes on her mind, not you. She is no longer your wife. Make it that way AFTER a lengthy discussion with your attorney.

I’m sorry. I say that knowing the pain you’re going through.

going to counseling, no contact with OM, etc etc. the fact is (from my experience) is that once a woman falls out of love with a man, it never comes back. The only people that will tell you it can are people that have something to gain By your efforts.

One person can’t save a marriage.  It’s clear she’s only with you now for the security you provide. 
May advice: End it and find another woman to love. Once humptyfalls, its pointless to try to put it back together.


----------



## Mr. Nail

coming to this late but this is the bit that is bothering me.
She tells you you are just a friend.
She tells you he is just a friend.
Now you know where you stand.


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## Emerging Buddhist

She might as well have asked you for a divorce because making you an option pretty much does that anyway...


----------



## Evinrude58

Buffer said:


> She needs to know where you are at. Tell her in plain English that her actions are leading you to seek legal advice for a formal
> separation. Text the OM, tell him his actions toward your wife is unacceptable and is to cease forth with.
> You don’t need her permission. Let her friends and family know she is having at a minimum an EA.
> Buffer


i agree in principal, but I think he needs to get an exit plan without her knowledge. Tipping her off he’s going to see an attorney isn’t wise.
He needs to get a plan in place and start carrying it out. Undoubtedly she either has already, or is about to start working on her own exit strategy.


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## TDSC60

She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL. Tap on the 3 small verticall dots on the top right side of your post and choose "edit."


 Got it. Thanks.


----------



## Tobeknown

I'm jumping in a little late on this thread but I'll give you my opinion on the matter as a woman who's H of 14 years cheated on me throughout the marriage and adamantly denied it.

You cannot control what she does at all. She will cheat if that's what she has her mind set to do. You can drive yourself mad checking texts, asking for passwords, chasing her behavior down this rabbit hole but she's clearly having an EA that will probably lead to more. 

If it were me, again in this awful place, I'd consult an attorney, the best one in your county and get your ducks in a row now and then put up a large guard around your heart. Get very cold emotionally so she knows that you know what's going on and don't back down from what you know, no matter how she diminishes her actions. Don't do your usual loving things such as telling her how beautiful she is. Don't beg for her affection for her to be honest with you because she isn't. She's lying and she's found that thing that she thinks is exciting now. 

There is nothing wrong with you, unless you were abusive and totally inattentive, I think she would have done this to you sooner or later. Don't beat yourself up and blame yourself for her actions. She's fallen for the "grass is greener" but greener grass often has more manure. They are not "just friends" and you know this in your gut so start trusting your instincts and not her word anymore.

I'm so sorry. Nothing hurts like betrayal. But it hurts worse if you allow yourself to be treated like a fool. Don't beg for someone that doesn't choose you. Ever.


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## almetcalf

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> All sex has been cutoff, which isn't a game breaker, sure I love sex and the chance to connect with my spouse but its not like I can't wait. What is frustrating about it is I did absolutely nothing to earn it, in fact it should be me blocking her from sex.
> OM is confirmed just a friend, form texts that I've seen.......................................... that she deserves a friend. .................. What do you guys think?


 I think you need to change your name from No-MoreMr.NiceGuy to I'maDoorMatForMyWife!

30 something guy texting your wife is not "just a friend". Maybe that's all he can be right now, but given the chance they are going to be very "close" friends! Quit being such an idiot about this. Lot's of us much older are telling you exactly how it is. Nobody writes this to a "just" friend!! “you’re so flirty and sweet, you’re in my head and I need to know how you feel about me” You REALLY think that's just a friend!?!?

She cut off all sex? Sorry, marriage over, grow a set and move on. You have nothing but frustration ahead of you. (Of course, I haven't heard her side of the story. I mean, maybe you have a low sex drive and she is frustrated, maybe you're crappy in bed and she is frustrated, maybe she needs more romance, maybe you're a grump all the time, maybe you're just too namby-pamby for her, I don't know, we are just hearing one side of the story. Regardless, she is looking to move on.)


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## Evinrude58

It’s a pretty classic cheater thing to cut the husband off. It would be cheating on her lover to screw her hysband!
Plus, she doesn’t want it with her husband because she’s not in love with him anymore


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## Chaparral

Is he on Facebook, Instagram, Tumbler etc? Is he married? If not where did you get that info? 
Get both books listed in my signature below. The primer is not a manual, it’s about the relationship.
Just because you have proof of friendship from the texts, doesn’t mean there not using one of many cheater apps. 
180 all the way at this point. 
Children?
Horse folks seem to have a lot of infidelity problems.


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## VladDracul

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Says we need to build up from being friends, in my own marriage, in my own house. All sex has been cutoff


The honeymoon is over my man and I think you know it. The chick has lost romantic interest in you and it cannot be "built up from being friends". Whether she even knows it or not, she stringing you along until she's comfortable pulling the eject lever. If it were me in your shoes, I'd tell her she needs to make other arrangements; that "friends" just ain't gonna cut it. I ain't never settled for less than the full chick and I never will. 
I want you to think back over the years of the guys you've known that was "willing to wait" on a chick only to discover somebody else was f-ing them. If I had a dollar for every one I knew, I could pay for a months worth of groceries.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

I haven't been on here in some time, but reviewing, I've gotten some excellent advice thank you all who took interest. UPDATE: I was asked to leave a couple of weeks ago so I obliged because I honestly didn't want to be home anyway, has nothing to do with taking a weak position, I needed some space myself and didn't want to be home. After a week I was asked to come home where I've slept on the couch. Lots of things have transpired since my last posting. I did some digging and tons of research about what is happening and why. I couldn't get into the phone as much as I tried so I waited that out, she got relaxed with me home so I swiped it from my kid while he was playing on it and synced it back up with my computer so I have text access now. Installed keylogger on the computer and got access to her side of the phone records, we have Fi so I had to have her access to see the logs. Downloaded the logs and counted out all the messages everyday from April when they started texting instead of facebook, to now.

Some days were almost 300 texts in a day, sometimes not ending until 2am. I was able to go back a couple weeks, up until the weekend I came home, everything before that was deleted. She swore no more deleting of texts when I came back home, no more hiding anything, which has been two weeks and the texts and phone records matched. Until Thursday...I was keeping an eye on the texts while playing with my son, an inappropriate text came up but I was afraid to open it in case she got smart and wondered why her texts were showing read when she hadn't read them.

Lost my opportunity because when I checked the next morning it showed 46 missing text messages. So I asked her if she had been keeping with our agreement of not deleting texts anymore, to which she said she hadn't been. Ok so now I'm livid and I know something is up so I pressed the matter saying if nothing was wrong with her "just a friend", then prove it to me, show me the deleted texts. I see her telling the "friend", he wants to see our deleted texts. Nothing goes on for a few close to a hour, then she texts back and admits to being in an EA, and lays out the reasons why (I haven't been happy, haven't been there emotionally, have been continuously depressed. On my side of it, yes I haven't been myself which is why Im going to counseling. 

She told me about some of their inappropriate conversations, to which she still refers to them as "joking". TBH Im glad she told me, but it doesn't change the fact that there is so much left that I don't know about. So I'm trying to just be patient and wait it out and see what happens. I'm still activly monitering the texts.


----------



## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

In reply to some posters, no he doesn't have a family he's single, I've facebook stalked, and reviewed facebook messenger, nothing of any importance there.


----------



## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Tobeknown said:


> I'm jumping in a little late on this thread but I'll give you my opinion on the matter as a woman who's H of 14 years cheated on me throughout the marriage and adamantly denied it.
> 
> You cannot control what she does at all. She will cheat if that's what she has her mind set to do. You can drive yourself mad checking texts, asking for passwords, chasing her behavior down this rabbit hole but she's clearly having an EA that will probably lead to more.
> 
> If it were me, again in this awful place, I'd consult an attorney, the best one in your county and get your ducks in a row now and then put up a large guard around your heart. Get very cold emotionally so she knows that you know what's going on and don't back down from what you know, no matter how she diminishes her actions. Don't do your usual loving things such as telling her how beautiful she is. Don't beg for her affection for her to be honest with you because she isn't. She's lying and she's found that thing that she thinks is exciting now.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with you, unless you were abusive and totally inattentive, I think she would have done this to you sooner or later. Don't beat yourself up and blame yourself for her actions. She's fallen for the "grass is greener" but greener grass often has more manure. They are not "just friends" and you know this in your gut so start trusting your instincts and not her word anymore.
> 
> I'm so sorry. Nothing hurts like betrayal. But it hurts worse if you allow yourself to be treated like a fool. Don't beg for someone that doesn't choose you. Ever.


Thanks, I found this very helpful and insightful. I'm considering my options. I did start the 180 after her admission, asked her to leave for awhile so I feel like I have the upper hand. As much as I love her and want to trust her, I won't stop monitoring until I'm satisfied the EA is really no more. They continue to talk regardless of my feelings, but no missing texts and texts don't seem inappropriate in anyway besides the occasional "he said this," and complaining about me, but hasn't been much and TBH the conversations seem pretty one sided.


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## Beach123

Why do you want to stay in any home when she is blatantly disrespecting you?

this isn’t your wife - this is an evil cheater! Treat her as such! Make HER move now! Make sure you expose the OM and your wife to everyone you know!

quit making it easy for her to cheat and treat you terribly.

file for divorce ASAP!


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## jlg07

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Thanks, I found this very helpful and insightful. I'm considering my options. I did start the 180 after her admission, asked her to leave for awhile so I feel like I have the upper hand. As much as I love her and want to trust her, I won't stop monitoring until I'm satisfied the EA is really no more. They continue to talk regardless of my feelings, but no missing texts and texts don't seem inappropriate in anyway besides the occasional "he said this," and complaining about me, but hasn't been much and TBH the conversations seem pretty one sided.


Here's the thing -- the EA IS STILL going on. They are STILL communicating. It has to be a hard NO CONTACT AT ALL EVER, or the affair will continue. Her blaming YOU is BS. Yes you may have had issues in the marriage, but SHE is the one who cheated. If she didn't like it, she should have divorced you, not cheated.


----------



## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

jlg07 said:


> Here's the thing -- the EA IS STILL going on. They are STILL communicating. It has to be a hard NO CONTACT AT ALL EVER, or the affair will continue. Her blaming YOU is BS. Yes you may have had issues in the marriage, but SHE is the one who cheated. If she didn't like it, she should have divorced you, not cheated.


I agree, I do need to put the fist down and force NC. I have never been in this situation but from researching and reading the posts here I've been able to recognize how a cheater, even an emotional cheater acts. It's been typical blame shifting, deny, trickle truth the whole nine yards.


----------



## Evinrude58

Here’s the sad thing: the way the mind works, what she has been involved in is 100% as deadly to the marriage as full-on slapping nasties. You may feel better that they haven’t had sex YET, that you know of. Emotionally, your wife has been banging him for some time now. That’s why she can’t stop. She’s addicted to the idea of him.

I hope you are a rare bird who comes out of this with a wife that actually loves her husband. I don’t even look for ivory-billed woodpeckers anymore.
But I do indeed wish you the best.


----------



## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Beach123 said:


> Why do you want to stay in any home when she is blatantly disrespecting you?
> 
> this isn’t your wife - this is an evil cheater! Treat her as such! Make HER move now! Make sure you expose the OM and your wife to everyone you know!
> 
> quit making it easy for her to cheat and treat you terribly.
> 
> file for divorce ASAP!


I won't file, YET, although I'm taking precautions and getting VAR, and will continue monitoring texts and facebook. She has expressed remorse, now I get to see her prove it. I'm not a man to run away at the first sign of trouble, as much as an EA is cheating in my book, I had some to contribute to that so I want to give the benefit of the doubt without jumping to thinking the worst. Physical hasn't happened I know that for sure, texts even confirm that much when she says "we haven't even been physical", thats what she said to him, and its what she kept trying to say to me until she was able to admit she had the EA and admit it was cheating. This whole time I think I've been made out to be the bad guy, when she's equally at fault and has refused to admit it to herself.


----------



## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Evinrude58 said:


> Here’s the sad thing: the way the mind works, what she has been involved in is 100% as deadly to the marriage as full-on slapping nasties. You may feel better that they haven’t had sex YET, that you know of. Emotionally, your wife has been banging him for some time now. That’s why she can’t stop. She’s addicted to the idea of him.
> 
> I hope you are a rare bird who comes out of this with a wife that actually loves her husband. I don’t even look for ivory-billed woodpeckers anymore.
> But I do indeed wish you the best.


 I agree with that assessment, and she did actually admit to "emotionally banging him" but not in quite in those terms. I hope I come out of it too, I feel a strange mixture of emotion, I feel good that I'm coming out of the cloud I've been in thanks to my counselor and opening up to my wife, and yet alternatively scared ****less at what happens next.


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## TDSC60

If you truly love her you want her to be happy, right? She is not happy married to you. She has told you as much. Why are you waiting on her to make a decision? It seems to me that she is considering settling for you but truly wants to explore her feelings for OM. Do you really want to be in a marriage that is not a real choice but something she sees as a best option....for now? You do know if he was local they would be hooking up at every opportunity right. Especially since OM is single. What has he got to lose if he strings her along until he can meet in person?

Tell her you love her and just want her to be happy. If that means she needs to go to her OM to be happy then you will file for a legal separation until you can get a divorce finalized. She can pack her bags and go to him if that's what will make her happy..


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## Buffer

Brother, she won’t have sex with you because she will be cheating on her AP/OM.
AP ask for this to creat dominance in the relationship. Also WW some times will instigate no sex policy for the BS, as she wants to be a one partner wife, not two at a time.
Buffer


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## manwithnoname

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> I won't file, YET, although I'm taking precautions and getting VAR, and will continue monitoring texts and facebook. She has expressed remorse, now I get to see her prove it. I'm not a man to run away at the first sign of trouble, as much as an EA is cheating in my book, I had some to contribute to that so I want to give the benefit of the doubt without jumping to thinking the worst. *Physical hasn't happened I know that for sure, texts even confirm that much when she says "we haven't even been physical"*, thats what she said to him, and its what she kept trying to say to me until she was able to admit she had the EA and admit it was cheating. This whole time I think I've been made out to be the bad guy, when she's equally at fault and has refused to admit it to herself.


It's quite possible these texts were purposely sent for your benefit.


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## Robert22205

As long as she thinks you won't (for any reason) divorce her, the flirting will continue.

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Your wife's behavior is a big fail. He behavior is not only disrespectful - but it's cruel to you.

If she refuses to make you feel safe (100% NC) then you have to decide to suck it up for the rest of your life or divorce her.

Your wife is on a slippery slope. She basically has to chose her marriage vs the OM. Since she's sexualized the friendship (sexually oriented texts), the consequence is that they can no longer be just friends. She must go 100% NC.

Anything less and each subsequent contact with the OM (even seeing him driving down the street) keeps the EA alive in her head - and keeps her on the slippery slope to adultery (and you feeling unsafe).

At a minimum she (and you) should read the book: Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass

It's based on research of couples that experienced infidelity and identifies behavior that exposed the marriage to a high risk of cheating.


----------



## lucy999

She needs to be the one sleeping on the couch, not you. Kick her out of the bedroom today and reclaim that space. And she had the audacity to ask you to leave the house? And you did??!! I know you're back home but man. Don't ever do that again. A court of law could view that as abandonment.

She's already broken the rules for this so-called reconciliation--she deleted texts. It's more like wreckonciliation. She's still carrying on with her EA right in front of your face. She's got some balls.

How does it feel being The Marriage Police? Checking the phone logs, installing a key logger. How long do you plan on doing this? It's a thankless job. Ask me how I know.

You, sir, are doing this all wrong. I wish you luck. You're going to need it.


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## PieceOfSky

The astonishing thing is if you are able to get her to end contact with this guy, or if he loses interest, what you are left with is someone who is unhappy, not in love with you, not attracted to you, and prefers staying married because of fear of leaving and having to find her way through life awhile on her own.

At least that’s been my experience for the last decade or so.

I suspect it feels different being with someone who goes all in wanting to recover and rebuild and cherish and find joy together, vs. being with someone struggling to tolerate your existence and role in her life because she lacks confidence she can do better than even that ****ty situation. But, honestly I can’t even remember the former feeling; it’s been only the latter for over a decade. And it’s a dynamic process that feeds on itself — I couldn’t unfreeze my heart towards her if I tried at this point, unless there was a now-unimaginable change in her towards me. It’s not called living. It’s just waiting to die.

But, I did end her EA. (Point is: not much of a victory in the big picture. And it’s shadow hangs over me every day, I think of it every day, because the real damage it illuminated is still here.)

Imagine missing out on a year of your life with someone that fuels your spirit rather than drains it. Imagine missing out on five or ten or twenty. That is what you potentially trade, when you choose to stay with someone ambivalent or worse about your existence in her life.


What’s so great about her that she deserves you to sacrifice your life-limited time, when she cannot even offer you honesty let alone love and admiration?


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## Marc878

Sounds like you’re going to have to learn the hard way. The important thing is that you learn from it.


----------



## Tdbo

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> I won't file, YET, although I'm taking precautions and getting VAR, and will continue monitoring texts and facebook. She has expressed remorse, now I get to see her prove it. I'm not a man to run away at the first sign of trouble, as much as an EA is cheating in my book, I had some to contribute to that so I want to give the benefit of the doubt without jumping to thinking the worst. Physical hasn't happened I know that for sure, texts even confirm that much when she says "we haven't even been physical", thats what she said to him, and its what she kept trying to say to me until she was able to admit she had the EA and admit it was cheating. This whole time I think I've been made out to be the bad guy, when she's equally at fault and has refused to admit it to herself.


That's the problem.
She knows you won't file.
She finds solace in that. It empowers her.
OM is the exciting new plaything.
You are "Plan B," the unexciting but solid safety net.
She likes the dynamics of playing two guys to feed her ego.
What to do?* Blow up her little world!*
Tell her that you understand that the unbridled powers of the universe have conspired to pull her and loverboy together.
Say "Wife, I want the best for you and it is the OM. I will fully assist the two of you in achieving true love."
Get some nice boxes and trash bags and have them staged at home. (Don't be cheap, get the HD ones.)
Start packing her crap up. Put it all next to the door.
Do your homework on loverboy. Get wife in the room. Call up his cell, put him on speaker. Tell him all the crap about the unbridled powers of the universe, etc and add "I'm bringing her to you, where do I drop off her and her S**t?" He will probably freak, maybe even bail right then.
If loverboy has a wife, call her up.Put her on speaker right then. Present the evidence (which you will have already have documented.) Offer to meet her in a public place to share your evidence. You can discuss how to undermine, embarrass and humiliate them when you meet.
If your wife isn't a blubbering mess by that point begging to stay, etc, load her and her crap in a truck (which you will happen to have handy if you don't already own one) and drop her and her stuff off at loverboy's abode.
Use social media to your advantage. Express your sorrow that you and your wife are no longer together* due to the fact that you cannot stand her boyfriend.* Send to friends, family , enemies, the local butcher, basically everyone who has a device. Heap humiliation on thick. Break her.
Arranged to have her served with divorce paperwork the next day. By this time, loverboy will either want out of Dodge, or he will have already bailed. Her "Plan B" has launched "Plan Bye-Bye," so she is in danger of losing you. She probably does not have a "Plan C." At that point, you will most likely have her attention. She has never seen this side of you, she will not know that to think. For all intents and purposes, she will probably be broken and want to R.
If she wants R, tell her that she has until the time that the divorce is final, and the onus is on her to convince you of that. You are now in control to make your demands. She can either walk the talk and fix (through IC) the malfunctions that led to this debacle, or she's toast.
You have to be willing to take control and lose our marriage if there is a chance of saving it. Shock and awe is the best tool to accomplish that.


----------



## Openminded

Women don’t like weak men and have no respect for them. We won’t all take advantage of men who are weak but cheaters 100% will walk all over you and she has. Why not?

She doesn’t want a divorce but neither does she want to give up her side piece. Don’t bet it isn’t physical just because she put that in a text. You’ll never know for sure but assume it was. Cheaters are very creative.

Until you wake up and take charge she’ll continue to drive the bus.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Openminded said:


> Women don’t like weak men and have no respect for them. We won’t all take advantage of men who are weak but cheaters 100% will walk all over you and she has. Why not?
> 
> She doesn’t want a divorce but neither does she want to give up her side piece. Don’t bet it isn’t physical just because she put that in a text. You’ll never know for sure but assume it was. Cheaters are very creative.
> 
> Until you wake up and take charge she’ll continue to drive the bus.


You are quite right about the text thing though, I wasn't thinking super straight last night when I got back on TAM, and I know that because after I had casually asked if she had deleted any more texts a few days ago (even though I already knew the amount and the time stamps for the deleted texts), she texted OM and said "he thinks I'm still deleting texts" , and "I came clean and told him what we were talking about so now he knows," and the best one "we're just friends." BUT, she continues to send him pictures that aren't shared with me. She says they have never been sexual in nature, but honestly the eyes say more than a nude picture would, you can tell the excitement in it. So I know she has fed me bits and pieces to keep me happy and complacent, but its not gonna work. Until R is taken fully serious on her part (which she's trying to solve the problems not the symptoms, so I'll give her time for that), and I'm given access to all of it from her unprompted, I know that everything she says is a lie.This definitely isn't innocent until proven guilty, its guilty until proven innocent and that means I will have every single last detail until I'm sufficiently satisfied. I have enacted the 180 and she has been moved to a family members house until I see some truth telling backed up with evidence.


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## Beach123

Well.... you are just a sitting duck 

she’s taking aim at you - and you are just sitting there waiting and watching - not DOING a thing to protect yourself/your future.

that part is only on you!


----------



## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Beach123 said:


> Well.... you are just a sitting duck
> 
> she’s taking aim at you - and you are just sitting there waiting and watching - not DOING a thing to protect yourself/your future.
> 
> that part is only on you!


What do you mean by that? I'm looking at lawyers, we've agreed on separation and I made her leave my house. Well thanks for everyone's honesty and help I appreciate it. When i first posted I was an absolute mental/emotional wreck and now I'm taking charge of my life. Thanks


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## Marc878

Separate your finances. Close out any shared credit cards. Etc. 

Pronto!!!!!


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

We are best friends and have agreed we always will be. As far as the finances go, we share a business and as far as I'm concerned it will continue that way. Marriage is important but ultimately I have to remember why we were married in the first place and that was because we were best friends. I will consult with the attorney about separating things financially, but know that I will make sure my friend is safe and secure before I do anything, and the business is a joint venture and will likely remain that way because neither of us can afford to buy the other out. This whole thing has been very civil. Yes we've argued and each have placed blame but I'm trying to remember that I contributed my % to this marriage and in all honesty, what is put in is taken out. I haven't been there so what she is doing now is a symptom of the bigger problem. I don't know who will agree with me on that, but it doesn't really matter. I have come to my senses on the matter at hand, she isn't in love with me. She keeps saying she want's to "date" and try again to work on us, but as long as OM is in the picture as a friend, doesn't matter if he was a customer of ours or not, nothing can move forward. So if she chooses to keep OM in her life, I will likely file once things are sorted out financially and I'll learn to co-parent. Makes me ill to think about but now that I've had time to sort myself out, I'm much more confident with what will need to be done.


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## sokillme

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> We are best friends and have agreed we always will be. As far as the finances go, we share a business and as far as I'm concerned it will continue that way. Marriage is important but ultimately I have to remember why we were married in the first place and that was because we were best friends. I will consult with the attorney about separating things financially, but know that I will make sure my friend is safe and secure before I do anything, and the business is a joint venture and will likely remain that way because neither of us can afford to buy the other out. This whole thing has been very civil. Yes we've argued and each have placed blame but I'm trying to remember that I contributed my % to this marriage and in all honesty, what is put in is taken out. I haven't been there so what she is doing now is a symptom of the bigger problem. I don't know who will agree with me on that, but it doesn't really matter. I have come to my senses on the matter at hand, she isn't in love with me. She keeps saying she want's to "date" and try again to work on us, but as long as OM is in the picture as a friend, doesn't matter if he was a customer of ours or not, nothing can move forward. So if she chooses to keep OM in her life, I will likely file once things are sorted out financially and I'll learn to co-parent. Makes me ill to think about but now that I've had time to sort myself out, I'm much more confident with what will need to be done.


This is the best you can do for a best friend huh? Let's see how your "best friend" treats you when the divorce is finalized. 

Expect to have a lot of heartache in your life.


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## jlg07

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> This whole thing has been very civil. Yes we've argued and each have placed blame but I'm trying to remember that I contributed my % to this marriage and in all honesty


You have to understand -- HER DECIDING to CHEAT is ON HER 100%. You have 0% to that. UNDERSTAND THIS. You may have contributed to issues in your marriage, but SHE decided to cheat. If things were that bad she should have divorced you, but she did NOT. She decided to CHEAT instead. She is NOT the person you thought she was.


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## Tdbo

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> We are best friends and have agreed we always will be. As far as the finances go, we share a business and as far as I'm concerned it will continue that way. Marriage is important but ultimately I have to remember why we were married in the first place and that was because we were best friends. I will consult with the attorney about separating things financially, but know that I will make sure my friend is safe and secure before I do anything, and the business is a joint venture and will likely remain that way because neither of us can afford to buy the other out. This whole thing has been very civil. Yes we've argued and each have placed blame but I'm trying to remember that I contributed my % to this marriage and in all honesty, what is put in is taken out. I haven't been there so what she is doing now is a symptom of the bigger problem. I don't know who will agree with me on that, but it doesn't really matter. I have come to my senses on the matter at hand, she isn't in love with me. She keeps saying she want's to "date" and try again to work on us, but as long as OM is in the picture as a friend, doesn't matter if he was a customer of ours or not, nothing can move forward. So if she chooses to keep OM in her life, I will likely file once things are sorted out financially and I'll learn to co-parent. Makes me ill to think about but now that I've had time to sort myself out, I'm much more confident with what will need to be done.


She was your "Best friend."
She forfeited that status when she betrayed you with another man.
"She keeps saying that she wants to date and try again to work on us." The only reason she says that is for her. It makes her feel better. She has opened up your marriage and turned it into a competition *because she can*. Forget the noise coming out of her mouth and watch her actions. If she truly felt any remorse and was sincere, the OM would be gone, and she would own it, and be doing the work to fix herself and her wrong.
I understand that you will be owning a business together for at least the near future, so civility is needed. Use the time to work on yourself and come out of it a better person. She may see the changes, and want you back. However, don't take her up on her offer. Go find a good woman who truly wants to be with you. Don't settle.
You were responsible for 50% of your marriage. If she found that substandard, it was her responsibility to work to make it better, and to give you the option to do the same or break up. Cheating is 100% on her, and is more indicative of her morality and personal defects, than your proficiency as a husband.
The good news is that you are coming to the realization of what you have to do. I know it's not easy, but don't make it harder on yourself by thinking that she is your "Best friend." That ship has sailed. She's now your "Best enemy."


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## Buffer

File now, have her served at her family’s place. Let her know you are serious and won’t wait until she is ready for you or turned the relationship physical. 
Yes she was your best friend and business partner. But she has closed that friendship and desolved that partnership.
I can’t understand why she gets to call all of the shots in the formation of the friendship, withholding affection and now calls the shots in ending the marriage. Yep she did move out, but that’s is. 
Brother you need to get angry at her, him and the situation. 
Buffer


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

jlg07 said:


> You have to understand -- HER DECIDING to CHEAT is ON HER 100%. You have 0% to that. UNDERSTAND THIS. You may have contributed to issues in your marriage, but SHE decided to cheat. If things were that bad she should have divorced you, but she did NOT. She decided to CHEAT instead. She is NOT the person you thought she was.


I agree it was her decision. I have been reading that EA's can sneak up on someone without them even realizing it. I hope y'all understand that I'm trying to understand whats going on and find myself. I don't have the experience most of you have. I'm pretty low right now. Thanks for the help guys and girls


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Buffer said:


> File now, have her served at her family’s place. Let her know you are serious and won’t wait until she is ready for you or turned the relationship physical.
> Yes she was your best friend and business partner. But she has closed that friendship and desolved that partnership.
> I can’t understand why she gets to call all of the shots in the formation of the friendship, withholding affection and now calls the shots in ending the marriage. Yep she did move out, but that’s is.
> Brother you need to get angry at her, him and the situation.
> Buffer


Dude I am getting real angry. As I write this I'm arguing with her and once again she's being defensive. I can tell she's withholding. My goal is to have a lawyer by end of week and get this all straightened out.


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## sokillme

Dude once they get the way your wife is you need to see her like the zombies in the walking dead. She may look like you wife but all she is to you is dangerous. There is no going back, she got bit and what was once there is gone.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

sokillme said:


> Dude once they get the way your wife is you need to see her like the zombies in the walking dead. She may look like you wife but all she is to you is dangerous. There is no going back, she got bit and what was once there is gone.


I can't help but agree which really sucks. I have more to share but I'll wait until tomorrow when I can think.


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## Beach123

You’d be way better off if you would take that offer of getting back together off her table. 
she thinks you’ll hang around while she dates her OM. 
a best friend doesn’t do this to their best friend.

You would be MUCH better off if you understand fully well she betrayed you and is now the enemy - not your friend!
YOU can parent on your own! It’s no longer your responsibility to consult her while parenting. She will parent her own way and you will parent the way it works for you. You no longer need to have her agree with you!


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## TDSC60

So after mini confrontation, she immediately texts the OM to tell him what was said between you and your wife. When she texted that "we are just friends" was she telling him that you and her are "just friends"? Was she assuring him that your marriage is only a friendship and not romantic and not a committed relationship (on her part)?

She is making sure OM knows what is going on while she continues to lie and hide things from you. OM and her relationship with him is the focus of her life. Can you see the texts that OM sends? Is he giving her advice on how to handle you?

It really does not matter if the pictures she sends to him are nudes or not, she wants to make sure he sees her all the time to keep him interested. Or maybe he is asking for pictures and she is happy to do what he wants.

This is not a marriage. This is not even a friendship. No one would treat a friend like she is treating you. I am afraid the only thing holding your wife back from going to him could be the business you share.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy

I would like to stress that wandering partners/spouses like to rewrite the history of their relationships for others. It is a defense mechanism that assists in justifying their cheating.

Get ready for this.


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## Marc878

Definition of friend = loyal, honest and trustworthy


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## Buffer

How you doing?


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Buffer said:


> How you doing?


I went off the deep end and had to leave town for awhile. Took some time off work, just trying to level my emotions out. She asked for divorce (for now) whatever the hell that means. Just trying to breath and figure this out.


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## syhoybenden

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> She asked for divorce (for now)


 He who hesitates is lost!

Take her up on it.

You will not only be calling her bluff, but you will be letting her know where you stand.

Do it! Before it gets cold.


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## Beach123

When you are no longer someone’s priority - stop handing them all YOUR power.


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## Tdbo

syhoybenden said:


> He who hesitates is lost!
> 
> Take her up on it.
> 
> You will not only be calling her bluff, but you will be letting her know where you stand.
> 
> Do it! Before it gets cold.


This. Have her served hard and ruthless.
She probably will be stunned because she thought that you didn't have it in you.
Besides, if she is all in the fog for studmuffin, you might be able to carve out a better deal for yourself.


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## [email protected]

Tdbo is right. Have her served ASAP.


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## Kamstel2

Set up meeting with a lawyer immediately 

you will thank yourself for MANY, MANY reasons if you have her served!

the sooner you do it, the more amicable the divorce, the better outcome for you, and the quicker your healing!!!

to put it simply,
JUST DO IT!!!!


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Guys thanks. What are the benefits of this legally? I don't want it 😭 I don't want to appear weak here guys but I'm in a tailspin and this is killing me inside.


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## Affaircare

@No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

It sounds like part of what you're dealing with is accepting that your marriage has come to an end, and that the person you had thought of as your best friend, is no longer a friend at all, much less a "best friend." Now I'm not saying that you and your STBXW have to be contentious, but rather that the very course of divorce is usually HER (and her legal team) looking out for HER BEST INTERESTS...and YOU (and your legal team) looking out for YOUR BEST INTERESTS. It is possible to have a civil divorce, but usually you both have to accept that the marriage is over, and both look at the laws in your state and then agree to divide things according to how the laws would divide things rather than "what I think I'm owed." *I'll just say that those who cheat are not too good at thinking beyond what they think they are owed.* 

So you ask what the benefits are of filing first? I can think of several!


You can take your time selecting a lawyer, rather than having to scramble to find a lawyer to meet with you and file a Response within 30 days of being served.
You have time to mentally and emotionally prepare for divorce.
You have the first choice of which court will hear your case. Depending on where you live, having your case heard in one courthouse over another could be a significant advantage. For example, if your spouse moved to another county, he or she could file in that county once they meet the residency requirement.
You are in control of the timeframes.
As the petitioner, you get the first argument at trial.
By initiating the divorce process, you have the opportunity to start protecting community assets.
It prevents possible stalling by the other party.
Now although you have had plenty of time to prepare for accepting that you are heading for divorce, that your heart is still fighting it. I get that--I do. You married for life and intended to see it through, and you never even considered that your spouse would commit adultery. Well... I am sorry to say "Here you are." The worst has happened. You spouse was unfaithful and would rather give the green grass on the other side of the fence a try, rather than being the kind of woman who honors her promises. That's all 100% on her (no matter WHAT she says to you or HOW she tries to blame you). 

The very best, WISEST thing you can do is to begin to accept that you are going to be a divorced man. Either it will be on her terms, at her speed...or it can be on your terms, at your speed even though you never really thought you'd be here. Accept it, and begin to pull up your big boy pants and protect yourself. Knowledge is power, so read the divorce laws for your state: Divorce Laws By State | MaritalLaws Find out if you will need to pay alimony or child support by pluggin in real numbers. Let go of the hope that she'll come to her senses. Let go of the hope that a judge will "make her go to counseling to fix this" or even that a judge will see how selfish and mean and hurtful she was and "set things right" by yelling at her or not giving her alimony. To a judge, this is a business transaction, and people are allowed to be wrong and mean (it's not a crime to be a jerk!). 

So arm yourself with knowledge and stop avoiding it. You are going to be a divorced man. You don't need to be an ass and try to rip her off and break things just so she doesn't get them. You can be fair and kind as you divorce. BUT... you do need to know what IS fair! You do need to know what is realistic! I would recommend separating all finances today: taking half the joint account and opening a new personal account. Put your direct deposit into your new personal account. Stop paying for her affair. 

Then I'd recommend filing first, because you can present a divorce petition that is BY THE BOOK according to the law, and look like a reasonable and fair guy. Then if she counters with incomprehensible demands (like alimony when she isn't due any) or if she sold some major marital asset, she looks like the nutty one not you. In addition, if you file with a reasonable petition and she agrees because she's wanting to be single quickly--boom you're done with the least amount of acrimony possible.


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## Openminded

Yes, it’s been obvious from the beginning that you were waiting around for her to end it so things could go back to normal. When men do that (and you’re not the only here who has), women see them as weak and have zero respect for them. Your wife may or may not think something will work with him but sounds like she wants to try. If, or when, that fails she’ll likely be back to try again with you.

What you need to be doing is working on you. Focus on figuring out why you are willing to put up with the **** she dishes out. Walk away. Maybe things will change with her at some point or maybe they won’t. But you need to take charge of your life for a change.


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## sokillme

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Guys thanks. What are the benefits of this legally? I don't want it 😭 I don't want to appear weak here guys but I'm in a tailspin and this is killing me inside.


Dude why don't you get mad already. You are repeatedly getting punched, punch back already! (I mean that figuratively)

You are too nice. See my other post about this. STOP IT.

She is not coming back and she is not going to change, even if she did she is not the girl you once thought you had. She is just some asshole you have the misfortune of wasting time on.

Enough with the feeling sad get angry. Now is not the time to wallow. You can do that later once you are less vulnerable. You are going to look back on this and be mad you were not more assertive. Trust me and everyone else who came on here and wasn't. They all say it. 

Protect yourself, live up to your name here!

All she is now is a zombie coming to bite your head off, she just looks like your wife.


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## Buffer

Well treating her as your best friend didn’t work. Stuff the friendship, she in her mind has left you, moved in with her AP and have the children calling him dad. She has AP as one happy family, with you a weekend dad! 
Please stop trying to set her up with him. She is not taking your years of marriage or friendship into account; Isolate all funds until the business is sorted legally. All business and marriage debt have to be split evenly. She can have generous visitation for the children but no more that 50-50. I am unsure of the children’s ages but no they can’t move with stbxww interstate to live with AP. Get a shark of a lawyer. Nice didn’t work. 
One day at a time
Buffer


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## MattMatt

It is all on her. Remember the movie when the pod people came and murdered their human prey and took over their life?

That's the situation you are in. Your wife is dead, killed by the creature that replaced her.


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## Evinrude58

Filing now, when she is wanted to do anything to be free of you (and that’s how it is, sorry. Very sorry). Is the only chance you have of getting at least a reasonably fair divorce. If you do not do this, you will regret it for years.

you do not have an option. Again, you do not have an option.., Let that sink in. It’s either divorce now, and have a chance, or divorce after her lawyer has had time tI educate her on how to set you up for countless falls that the court will be more than happy to crush you with.

and whether it means anything or not, state that the reason is infidelity.

I have been where you are. Time is not your friend here. You should have already seen a lawyer. You’re gonna drag your feet. She won’t drag hers.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Well we're doing it, will sign next week sometime. Honestly, most of this week has been torturous, but I got a little bit of revenge and now I'm feeling ok with it. I've been treated badly and lied to for long enough. The crazy thing is, this came out of left field for my STBEX she wasn't this kind of vindictive lying gaslighting person. I'm sure it had a lot to do with the OM but I can't help but think something else is amiss. Either way I'm starting to feel free and I thank you all so much. I didn't want to hear what you had to say about divorce, because of how emotionally low I was. I'm glad I am ok, and I will look forward to the signing.


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## Beach123

What is the revenge looking like?
What kind of deal did you get in the divorce papers?


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Well I let loose his exploits to a large portion of people to make him feel ashamed and scared to face people. It worked, and he's running around paranoid about everything. I haven't gotten to the divorce papers yet, we're remaining civil as friends and trying to work it out equally. I actually come out ahead here I think knowing that I'm not stooping to the level they have. I've had a few more (its your fault) types of things but I have learned to bat those away and place the blame on the choice made. It all kind of came really quickly, today actually. I just finally felt at peace.


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## Buffer

Remember take care of you and the children. They are the innocent parties from your STBX actions. 
Both her and OM’s conscious decisions and actions, that has led to the demise of your family, business and life. Again in with anger out with a slow breath to remain in control. Hope you get to keep the children close to your location and not interstate to move in with STBX and OM.
One day at a time
Respect ✊ 
Buffer


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## TDSC60

If your gut says she is still hiding something, she probably is. But that is not your problem much longer. 

I can't remember if someone else has said this before but when she cut you off sexually that was her being faithful to her new lover. When that happens, they have usually had sex or at least a physical encounter. 

Be at peace with yourself now. You gave it your all to save a marriage that she no longer wanted.

Live your life now. It will take some time to become indifferent toward her, but that is your goal going forward.

I would be cautious in the future. It is not uncommon for wayward wives, once they actually go to OM, to see that they screwed up and try to come back to you months or even a year or so after they leave and divorce their husband. The greener grass on the other side begins to turn brown. If that happens, try to remember how she lied, cheated, and blamed you.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

TDSC60 said:


> If your gut says she is still hiding something, she probably is. But that is not your problem much longer.
> 
> I can't remember if someone else has said this before but when she cut you off sexually that was her being faithful to her new lover. When that happens, they have usually had sex or at least a physical encounter.
> 
> Be at peace with yourself now. You gave it your all to save a marriage that she no longer wanted.
> 
> Live your life now. It will take some time to become indifferent toward her, but that is your goal going forward.
> 
> I would be cautious in the future. It is not uncommon for wayward wives, once they actually go to OM, to see that they screwed up and try to come back to you months or even a year or so after they leave and divorce their husband. The greener grass on the other side begins to turn brown. If that happens, try to remember how she lied, cheated, and blamed you.


 They definitely are still hiding things, I actually caught them having phone sex. I asked if he had sent her pictures or if she had sent pictures but I already knew the answer to that. She said no of course until I let her know what I knew. It's disgusting. He's ruined a family. I have thought about writing to his local newspaper about his exploits so his entire town will know. They haven't had sex, she keeps saying she's not trying to rush into anything but from the looks of what I've see she's lying there too. 

My parents were actually seperated and divorced once and have been remarried and happy for a long time now. Not saying I'd let her in, but I'm betting you are 100% correct in that she will see how she messed up.


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## TDSC60

Don't worry about writing to a local paper. They would not publish it anyway.

She will continue to lie because she has no love or respect for you now. All her focus is on him and the fantasy life she envisions.

One other note. HE did not ruin your family. Your wife did. You said he is single, YOUR WIFE is not. She is the one that should have been faithful. He probably made inappropriate advances, but she was the one to accept those and embrace them.

Let her go. The best revenge is to live well now that you are free.


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## Openminded

No, _your wife_ ruined a family. Focus on her and not on him.


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## Marduk

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> I have been reading that EA's can sneak up on someone without them even realizing it.


No, they don’t.

The minute she started hiding/deleting things was the minute she knew it was inappropriate.


----------



## Marduk

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> They definitely are still hiding things, I actually caught them having phone sex. I asked if he had sent her pictures or if she had sent pictures but I already knew the answer to that. She said no of course until I let her know what I knew. It's disgusting. He's ruined a family. I have thought about writing to his local newspaper about his exploits so his entire town will know. They haven't had sex, she keeps saying she's not trying to rush into anything but from the looks of what I've see she's lying there too.
> 
> My parents were actually seperated and divorced once and have been remarried and happy for a long time now. Not saying I'd let her in, but I'm betting you are 100% correct in that she will see how she messed up.


Here’s my read.

She’s been banging him in her head for so long that she thinks they have a ‘real’ relationship.

She’ll go bang him for real very soon, if she hasn’t done so already. He’ll use her infatuation, hormones, and frankly desperation to get whatever wild and kinky things he wants from her.

And then a few weeks out when it becomes work, he’ll dump her. He knows what he’s doing, and probably has a few married women on the go.

And then, when her horniness is satiated, or she gets dumped, she’ll start the “I don’t know what I was thinking, I made a mistake” game. Which only seems to happen after they get their rocks off and reality sets in.

I could be wrong. But just be ready for it.


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## ABHale

Believe what you see, this is your stbx true self.

Glad to hear you are doing better. Keep working on yourself.

I love the idea of doing an editorial in his local paper. 😂😂😂😂

Hit his social media accounts as well. Let them know how he went after a married woman. Ruin his life as he ruined yours. What’s the saying “All is fair in love and war”. Burn him.


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## Evinrude58

It takes a huge amount of strength to file and start moving forward after this happens. Nobody that hasn’t been through it knows how it makes you feel.
Only when you start moving ahead as you’re doing will the pain let up even a little. Good luck. Very sorry this happened, but happy for you that you aren’t wallowing in it and staying down.
You WiLL be glad you started the process one day. Your wife as you know her is gone forever. But you’ll be free to find another. Warning: there are a LOT of the type of women your wife is out there. Be careful you stay clear of them.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

She asked me for couples counseling 🤦‍♂️


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## Marduk

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> She asked me for couples counseling 🤦‍♂️


My response would be "We're not a couple any more. Do you mean you and your boyfriend need counselling?"

Do not play into this. If you do go, go grudgingly, and you pick the MC and you set the agenda.


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## Robert22205

Exposing the OM and your wife for inappropriate sexting (or more) seems to have a negative impact on their affair.

It sounds like she's becoming aware that the OM is loosing interest in her now that it's getting real. It got real for him when you showed zero tolerance and the OM learned she's about to become single. 

Her reality is the OM does not love her nor has any long term interest in her.


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## Robert22205

The OM may be dumping your wife.

However, do not allow yourself to be her Plan B.

Suggesting couples counseling is her way of blaming you for her decision to cheat (EA OR PA). 

Remember, her decision to cheat is 100% on her. Nobody forced her to cheat. She always had other options, but she chose to cheat. 

Couples counseling is not appropriate because it's purpose is to repair a marriage. The standard therapy model tends to 'share' the blame (which is not appropriate at this time). She unilaterally destroyed your marriage. 

Before you can consider rebuilding a new marriage (or couples counseling), she has to identify why she chose to cheat (why she lacks the core values to chose another option) - and to fix herself. Otherwise, she's not a safe partner and is high risk to repeat.


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## Robert22205

Do not grant her the gift of a second chance immediately. Take your time (I’m talking months) to decide whether to D or R. In the interim, she needs to believe you’re serious ready to divorce her (bluff if necessary), observe her actions (not promises) to rebuild trust and to make herself a safe partner.

What can SHE do now:

1) a written plan on how to rebuild your relationship including the steps she will take to make you feel loved. 

2) documenting the ways she will make you feel safe in the relationship

3) telling the truth on if she misses the AP, whether she enjoys him more than you, if she still thinks he is a good guy and desires to be with him. If she can’t convince you that she feels none of these things for him then you might as well move on.

4) make you feel desired. If it were me I would tell her she needs to initiate new intimacy with you in ways she did NOT have with him. She needs to be creative and also make you feel like you’re the only man she’d want to do these things with; and that she’s comfortable sharing them with you and only you for the rest of her life.

5) I’d want letters. Lots of them. Describing what you staying means to her. Describing how you must have felt when you learned she was cheating. Why she loves you. Why (other than love) she wants to be with you vs the OM. What she wants for your future together. I’d ask for a letter every two days. If she wants you in her life she’d do it.

6) Id actually want to be flirted with. As if she courting me for the first time. You said the old M is dead so if she wants a new one she needs to show that desire.

7) provide a timeline of her affair showing when, where, what happened, what she was thinking during and afterward each contact (text or face to face) with him - (subject to a polygraph). A timeline is for her benefit and assists her in fixing herself. It reduces her romantic tryst into a selfish deceitful act of betrayal. It also provides you with ‘what’ you are forgiving.


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## Beach123

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> She asked me for couples counseling 🤦‍♂️


mans you are allowed to say no! If it would help - it would be worth considering... but she hasn’t shown effort to repair the damage she caused.

some people like staying married AND having someone on the side... seems like this is what she intends for YOU to agree to.

tell her NO. Why talk to her at all? It’s all manipulation. She can talk to her attorney.


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## Evinrude58

Ask her why you’d want to do that? I wouldn’t. You laced all the blame for screwing another dude on YOU????

if you accept the poop sandwich you’re being fed..... you need to get away from this woman and find some strength to break free from a cheater.
Your wife is not done cheating by a long shot and the way she simply tells you to your face it’s your fault, she’s perfectly ok with doing it again. 
Move on.


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## nekonamida

It sounds like she's realizing he may not be as much of a prince charming as she thought now that his reputation is going down in flames. You might be Plan B.

It's up to you but don't stop the divorce unless you have the truth from her, continued honesty, transparency including access to her phone, and her full commitment to do whatever it takes to make this up to you. With out it, it's not worth it.


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## Beach123

MIGHT be plan B? He’s been plan B this whole time!


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## Kamstel2

Tell her you will CONSIDER Mc after she by takes a polygraph!


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## shortbus

DON'T EVEN CONSIDER IT! THIS IS ONLY MUSTARD FOR YOUR **** SANDWICH!
See, now doesn't that taste better?


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## Buffer

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> She asked me for couples counseling 🤦‍♂️


What is she asking this for? She called all of the shots in this situation. Had control, moved the chess pieces on the board. Yet now after signing want MC? 
If you agree, please get one who is experienced in infidelity, not one that enables the growth of feelings, exploring the blah, blah blah.


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## Affaircare

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> She asked me for couples counseling 🤦‍♂️


"STBXW, 

After you've gone to Individual Counseling and have dealt with the issues within yourself that allowed you to justify committing adultery and destroying our family, and after you have lived a trustworthy life for a year, demonstrating with your actions (not your worthless promises) that you CAN and WILL honor your vows to me and protect me from your personal flaws... at that time I will consider couples counseling and the answer may still be 'no' because why would I waste my valuable fidelity on someone who blames me for their own lack of character? Come see me after a year of flawless faithfulness."


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## [email protected]

Nomore, DO NOT go to couples counseling unless mandated by court. I have said in other post that many counselors are incompetent, even dangerous. Many have their own problems and attempt to ameliorate them through the counseling process. If you want to see a bunch of nut cases, go to a conference where there are a lot of MSW's. Some of the others have gotten their degrees online, and done maybe 1200 "anything" hours to qualify.


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## TDSC60

Counseling is a waste of time and money as long as she continues to communicate with OM. Plus I agree with [email protected], the odds of getting a good counselor are extremely low.

After all she has done to you, this request sounds suspiciously like a delaying tactic by her.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> She asked me for couples counseling 🤦‍♂️


No no and hell no! Not yet! She needs to get into IC and start fixing herself first. after a couple of months, see how she is acting towards you, then consider going to MC.

Sir, watch her actions not her words.


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## MattMatt

@No-MoreMr.NiceGuy I am a strong advocate for buying and installing good, high quality smoke detectors for both domestic and commercial properties. In fact, I need to get some spare batteries later today. 

However, if the house is already burning down rushing off to the shops/stores to buy a smoke detector would be an exercise in futility.

As would having couple's counselling under your circumstances, because if one spouse is a cheater couple's counselling would be like buying a smoke detector for a blazing building. Too little, too late.


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## Beach123

Instead of her suggesting MC - how about she stop all the behavior/actions that caused all the crap in your marriage? How about instead that she start showing you evidence she isn’t doing any of those things anymore?
Ahhhh, but she won’t because she isn’t!


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## Chaparral

So you outed him to some of his acquaintances and now she wants counseling. Hmmmmm


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

NO MORE MR NICE GUY. UNDERSTAND? THIS ONE IS FOR YOU


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## Kamstel2

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> NO MORE MR NICE GUY. UNDERSTAND? THIS ONE IS FOR YOU



when I was going through this Hell, I was playing it all the time, and I was screaming along with it!!!


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## sokillme

Crickets and ghost. You will have a much better life in the long run. Go find a real best friend who doesn't stab you in the heart and then tell you you need to go get counseling about it.

Or "Why do I need counseling I didn't lie and cheat and betray everything I said I stood for, not to mention the person I supposedly love and the "hopefully" father of my children, no that was you." then go find a real best friend who doesn't stab you in the heart and then tell you you need to go get counseling about it.

Go outside and get some dog **** and put it in a paper bag and keep it on your bed. That will provide you with more happiness then your wife will at this point.


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## Thevengfulone

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> Sorry, this is lengthy. I already know what I want and what I’m working towards, but I would like input and advice. Here’s my story.
> My wife and I have been married for 11 years with our 12th coming up, and we have one son. We have so much in common that we’ve never had a dull moment, there’s always something for us to do together. While things haven’t always been the best (no marriage or relationship is), I’ve always loved spending time with her. A few years back we had a disagreement about our families, since then I’ve tried to be patient and understanding, but conflicts would arise on occasion leaving me to feel like my thoughts didn’t matter. We’ve both been doormats to everyone else, losing confidence in ourselves and have both spent the last few years in and out of depression. Well, we’re finally getting on top of that, and I had thought (key word there) that these years together were going just fine until a few months ago.
> 
> She lays out this ultimatum of sorts, we need to find ourselves and explore, if we don’t try harder we will lose each other. We start going to our own separate counselors, and I feel like things are moving forward pretty good. We used to sell hand made leather horse tack, and would frequently take short trips out of town together to deliver. One day work got in the way (this happened just before the Ultimatum), and I couldn’t go so she went by herself to deliver the tack to a new customer we met, a nice guy, mid-thirties (about 6 years older than us). He quickly becomes a friend and she continues to this day to talk to him. Well I begin to notice her acting out of the ordinary. It went from us keeping our phones charging in the bathroom each night, to her hiding it in the bed. She would change screens when I got close, she would laugh in the other room, when I came to investigate she would be texting, I would sneak up behind her, see his name, and she would quickly shake it off as nothing or try to switch to her Facebook app mid text.
> 
> I got brave one night and snuck her phone out from under the blankets to check the texts, texts would go from first thing in the morning, to just before she came into the bedroom to bed, with conversations appearing to make no sense with gaps or long periods of time without texts when I already knew there were texts (the conversations present were normal friendly things.) We went out one night to play frisbee in the park across from our house, I had to go in for a drink, but thought on my way back I would play PI and do the sneaky sneak behind her, she was busy watching towards the house and didn’t see me sneak up. I come up behind and she’s texting again (texts always seem innocent but have winky faces). I see part of a picture, nothing strange about it, but when I say hello she jumps and quickly exits the text, she’s very visibly shaken, her hands are shaking trying to show me a picture she just took of herself. At this point I decide to keep a constant eye on her phone so I pair it with my computer. At one point I notice that as I’m reading the texts being sent they are being quickly deleted, even perfectly innocent ones. One text read something like “you’re so flirty and sweet, you’re in my head and I need to know how you feel about me”. She had come into the room so I had to exit, it was probably midnight, she was texting so I asked who it was, it took her a minute to reply with an honest answer, I think its far too late for “friends” to be texting so I say so and ask what they are talking about, she says something I can’t even remember, so I ask to see because this late at night is suspicious to me. She says, “well I just deleted them so I have nothing to show, but don’t worry we’re JUST friends, and I’ve deleted texts because I know you can get jealous and are sensitive so I’m looking out for your feelings.” This continues, even though I asked her not to text so late, she will find an excuse to leave the room and the phone is glued to her side. One night she tells me I love you but I’m not in love with you, and I haven’t been in years and I’m just realizing it. I felt so shocked and hurt and confused as to what had gone wrong. She says we can work on getting back to that point, but watching the phone records (because my computer was disconnected from her phone and I can’t get into her phone), she’s still texting from sunup to sundown with OM. I forgot to add, I told her if there was nothing to hide, I will just ask him to show me the texts or I want to recover the texts, she says "oh so now you don't trust me". Thoughts?


I've deleted the text because I know you can get jealous, and sensitive you are. Thank god she's looking out for your feelings. Did she ever think that you wouldn't get jealous if she wasn't texting another guy all day long? The one time you can't go on a trip with her, and she does this to you. Makes you wonder just what happened on that delivery trip? She is going to hook up with this guy, and no matter what you say or do. She will find a way to do it. You have this guy address from doing business with him. get a GPS on her car tell her you need some time alone. Then see if she heads down to his place. Drive down there and get pics of her car at his house. Get a lawyer she's going to leave you , might just as well beat her to it. Pack her stuff change the locks have the papers ready. Tell her he can have you! Don't listen to anything she has to say, she's gonna dump it all on you!


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## Buffer

How RU doing?
Buffer


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Thanks for checking in. Thinks went South for me and had a bit of a break down. Stayed off tech for awhile, been a couple weeks at least. Took a week off of work to reset, and have been on my own for quite sometime. I've been getting mixed signals from her. Her family found out and cracked down hard on her for what she did, reached out to me with their full support. I lied about some of my original story to protect my identity, so it's not quite as it seems but pretty much accurate none the less. Man isn't older, he's not even 21 yet, lives with parents. What bothers me the worst is knowing word for word what was said for over a month, it's shocking. I won't divulge anything as of yet until I know how this plays out. I'm giving my all because I owe it to myself to find what makes me happiest. I spent a few nights in a protected facility to be safe from myself. Been an emotional rollercoaster. Before anyone says anything, I'm in a negative emotional state and I don't need anymore negativity, you can ask questions if you'd like but let's keep it lighthearted. Thanks for looking out. I'll post more as this develops.


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## syhoybenden

Is he at least 18? Was he at least 18 when they started up? Just how in hell did they meet?


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## Lostinthought61

i am truly sorry you find yourself in this state MMNG, now is not the time to be thinking about anything or anyone else right now but yourself, healing one self is the most important thing you can do. Please make sure she has no contact with you in this state.


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## BluesPower

Lostinthought61 said:


> i am truly sorry you find yourself in this state MMNG, now is not the time to be thinking about anything or anyone else right now but yourself, healing one self is the most important thing you can do. Please make sure she has no contact with you in this state.


What he needs to do is have no contact with her, EVER. 

You have filed for divorce, Right?


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## phillybeffandswiss

See how you are treating the posters? That’s how you treat your wife. You checked your self in for your own protection and you are showing more anger towards us, than your wife. Take a deep breath and realize your wife’s actions led you to this point.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Yeah he's over 18. No anger toward you guys and gals, just trying to figure out where I'm at. I have the summer off due to my job so I'm doing some small side work and relaxing as much as possible, doing some work on the house and yard. It's been a great way to vent.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

She went NC with him and has been working on herself. In the mean time, still doing counseling to get myself figured out.


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## paboy

You may not be able to process this at this point. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It does get better. I presume you are on antidepressants. Exercise. Burn off all that excess energy. The endorphin release gives a natural healing balm, and the physical development becomes a nice eye candy.

Looking after yourself is your prime goal at this point.

Do this for you. Put yourself first. It will be your best course of action at this point.


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## Beach123

Now that you know she is capable of this and it IS who she is... do you plan to stay or divorce her?


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## OutofRetirement

Maybe you and her can adopt him.

Did his mommy and daddy find out he's been a bad boy?


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## OutofRetirement

I don't believe "no contact" is possible on the first try in an emotional affair.


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## Welsh15

I would run hard away from this toxic woman


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## Chaparral

It sounds like your wife is about fifteen years older than him. That’s extremely out of line. No wonder her family jumped on her. Your wife needs mental care. Is she getting it? Are you still separated? It’s hard to advise you not knowing what is true in your thread.
Did you get the two books linked to below?
Does he actually live a long distance away? Did she actually go to see him? What’s real?


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## TDSC60

WOW! The revelation that the OM is just a kid took me back. My brother was married with 2 kids when his wife (33 yr old) started acting like yours did at home. She moved out, he kept the kids. He eventually found out that she was being physical with the 19 yr old son of a coworker. They divorced and she had a string of lovers who were all 10-15 years younger than her. 

Since your STBXW changed immediately after her first in person meeting with this guy you can be sure some heavy flirting went on or possibly some physical contact happened during that meeting. Not sex, but he made a pass and she accepted. Either way she friend zoned you almost immediately. If she is anything like my X sister-in-law, she will do it again if another young man shows any interest in her.

She eventually asked for divorce to explore her new relationship, so give her what she wants. Don't bet your future on a "maybe she changed" or "suddenly she woke up". It sounds more like she got caught and her fantasy man dumped her and she does not like the life she is now left with without your support. Plus, her family is coming down on her and supporting you. Family pressure can make a huge difference in how she acts. Not necessarily how she truly feels. Rolling the dice expecting her to change into a faithful spouse is not worth the risk. 

Good for you for seeking individual counselling. Figure out what you want.


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## DownByTheRiver

Sorry to hear. Well, you can't assume they are sleeping together. In fact, it sounds like he's wondering where all the flirting is going, if anywhere, on that post. But yes, I agree with other it's an emotional affair at least. Guess it's time to do a joint counseling session and get it all out in the open. All her talk about exploring may mean just that....she may feel she missed out on it as some people who marry young to. Wish you the best. Keep us posted.

P.S. Ordinarily I'd be upset with you for snooping, but in this instance, it seems you had reason enough. But if you can't get back to a place of trust, it's over.


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

Chaparral said:


> It sounds like your wife is about fifteen years older than him. That’s extremely out of line. No wonder her family jumped on her. Your wife needs mental care. Is she getting it? Are you still separated? It’s hard to advise you not knowing what is true in your thread.
> Did you get the two books linked to below?
> Does he actually live a long distance away? Did she actually go to see him? What’s real?


The only thing of substance that wasn't true was his age, the amount of children (we have two) and our business (we raise and breed hunting dogs). I was afraid she might wonder onto this sight and find me posting, I'm sure others feel the same at the start. He IS from several states away. No physical contact has ever been had because he came with his parents to meet her, and she hasn't left the state and from the snooping I know he hasn't left his state either, I am not snooping anymore, its for the best considering my mental health at the moment. I actually got his parents involved (very christian people), his parents were outraged and told me they would never accept her into their family and they were so angry with what he did to my family. Yes I snooped, and I snooped well, I'm talking facebook, instagram, texts messages, email, google photos, phone records you name it. Anyway, it's definitely an emotional affair, she admitted to such which is why I kicked her out and she hasn't returned. We are currently seeing a counselor together, if anything it will help me understand what the hell happened in our relationship and how we can improve individually. It's been going pretty good, I feel my moods lifting finally. No I'm not on anything for depression, though I do take a mood stabilizer as of the time I spent in the center. Anyhow, thanks for the continued support. I assume some on here did the forgive thing and are living happily with their spouses again? I just want to exhaust all my options before I go divorcing, I'm a one time sort of guy and I'd like to keep it that way if at all possible.


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## Kamstel2

Is she in therapy????

you need to take ALL social media away from her, permanently

I suggest that you find the dumbest of dumb phones and give it to her! No more phones that can connect to internet!

I’m afraid that you are in for a very long and painful road!!! If this is what you want, then I wish you luck. 

Keep a very close eye on her. Since you breed hunting dogs, I assume that you know all about training. that is what you are going to have to do. Keep the ***** on a very short leash!!!!! ANY misbehavior on her part will result in harsh reinforcement (divorce)!!!! Make sure she knows this and understands that even the slightest issue will result in divorce!!!!

Stay strong!!!


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## ABHale

The only thing I am have a problem with is the fact the OM is a kid. Bad enough that she had an affair, but with a kid?!?!?!?!


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## No-MoreMr.NiceGuy

He's 20, so an adult, but I couldn't agree more.


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## SunCMars

ABHale said:


> The only thing I am have a problem with is the fact the OM is a kid. Bad enough that she had an affair, but with a kid?!?!?!?!


Why a kid, why one wet behind the ears? 

He will be one that will do whatever he is told, and he will be _manageable._

He will be easy to control.
And, he will adore her, make her feel like a queen, with him as her man-servant. 
As long as she delivers up to him.... sex.

Likely, she had an unpleasant time in high school. 
And this kid will allow her to rewrite that era.

Or....
When young and still in school, she passed up many opportunities to have sex with boys and young men, and now she wants to make up for it.

When this kid (or another one, later on) wises up and realizes he is 'mostly' her fantasy, he will leave, he will dump her.
Or, when this young man starts to question her thoughts and ways, she will dump him.

This wife hates her present life and wants a redo.


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## SunCMars

Having sex with a very young person is much easier. 
They are usually easy lovers, and not yet critics.

Critical thinking arises from cuts and scratches and burns, and certainly from cruelty.

Most young men and women are still innocent and pliable.

Until...

Until they are not.


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## Buffer

Not going off topic, but I had a navy mate who’s wife (mid 30’s) took up with her 17year old sons friend, whilst we were deployed. Just saying, it happen.
Buffer


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## SunCMars

Sex with the young is mostly physical sex. 
And hot and rapid passion.

No deep thoughts, just _wham-bam_, lets do it again... and again.

In the case of an older lover, male or female, with one much younger.....the older literally feasts on the younger's flesh.
Feasts with their eyes and hands....and lips, you get the picture.

The younger one, just wants to get hot and to get off.
'Foreplay' is the art, the part of being mature.

That play starts with glances, innuendos, come-ons, kisses and nibbling.... and, you get the picture.

'No play' is often the bailiwick of the young-at-play.
A kiss, a touch, stick-it-in and pump away.

Or, 'this was' the play.
No more, this, less more.

Porn has taught the young the ropes and the sinews.
And, how to sin, anew.

Yep.

_The Typist-_


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## SunCMars

No-MoreMr.NiceGuy said:


> He's 20, so an adult, but I couldn't agree more.


TBH, I have met some men this age whose kock age was leaps and bounds and twitches ahead of their clock age.


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## Chaparral

You need to read the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. If you need to work on yourself this will definitely let you know.
What is your wife saying? Does she even want to stay married? Is shy trying hard, half assed, not at all?


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## [email protected]

I don't think there's any chance for R here.


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## paboy

You remaining in your situation causes emotional damage. 
You need to get out of infidelity. You ought to start the divorce train rolling. See a lawyer, and have her served. What happens after that gets you out of infidelity. Either she wants to reconcile, and you withdraw the divorce, or she does not, and you divorce. 
This is the quickest way out of infidelity. Remaining in the situation and hoping that some thing triggers her to make the change, or as you state, until you have exhausted your options,is a form of a 'pick me dance', which most WS find unattractive, and has very little success.
The quicker you start the D train, the quicker you find happiness one way or the other.


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