# Silent treatment



## Troubledlinda

My story in a nutshell:

Been married for 4 years and have a 3 year old child. I've been receiving the silent treatment from my H on and off since we've been together (we didnt live together until we married so it was easier to handle then as I didnt have to see him everyday) but it got worse after we got married. For the stupidest little thing, he would close off and not engage with me for days. The longest period of silence was last year, it lasted 6 weeks and I thought I would die... There was no word from him at all, no hello, no how are you, no nothing! He even left our room and slept on the couch for 6 weeks for something that I dont even remember.

Now we're on it again and going on ou 3rd week. I'm sad to say that I'm used to it and that I handle it differently than I used to. In the beginning I used to cry and beg for him to tell me what I did wrong, apologize for something I might have done or said to upset him and his answer would be :"if you think hard, you'll understand what you did wrong". Then when he decides that he's ok, he'll start talking to me again as if nothing ever happened; if I tried to talk about the issue, the cycle would start and I would get blamed for causing trouble again...

I can never talk about things that upset me, I cannot share my pains with him, I am afraid of saying things the wrong way and be "punished" again so I keep everything to myself and have very little conversations with him... even on good subjects, if my opinion is different than his, it becomes a problem.

I have no affection from him, not even when we're not on silent treatment... I feel like I dont exist, like he doesnt need me in his life...

Now on week 3 of a long series of silence, I live diffrently... I act as if I dont care. I do my own things, I limit my talks or questions to him, because I know that he will answer cruely and I'll react negatively, which will make it worse. So I try to look happy and take care of our son in normal way... but I'm tired of this, I'm in pain and I don't know what to do to make him see his wrong. Does he even care?

I'm thinking of leaving (I thought of it on the last one but stayed and hoped that things would change) but I'm thinking of my child and am scared.

Please help me


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## PBear

Doesn't sound like much of a marriage, to be honest? Can you get him into counselling with you? I'm thinking I know the answer to that, but...

C


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## Lucianne

Sounds so much like the beginning and many years after of my marriage. My husband is older than me and had been used to controlling everything. He also grew up in a household that I have been told by other family members "perfected the silent treatment". There were times that this was told to me with what I felt like was a sense of pride. I became a SAHM and it became worse because I was dependent on him financially. It affected my children and me....we would go weeks with him only speaking to me if completely necessary and would not tell me what I did wrong. When he decided I had been punished enough he would almost act as if nothing had been wrong and the silent treatment had not even occurred.

Last year, he really pushed me to my limits. I told him I had nothing to lose by leaving him, our family was already in shambles because of this. I told him I knew I was not perfect and had done a lot of things wrong but that I was his wife, the mother of his children and I did deserve respect and if that didn't happen we would have to consider the next step. I had gone back to work and wasn't completely financially dependent on him anymore, I had also made work friends and was generally a happier, more confident person. It has not been easy, but I can sincerely say that we are at a much better place than we were a year ago. I was sure we were headed for divorce but now I think we will make it. I finally, after 18 years of marriage stood up for myself and told him that I deserved better than this.

Things are by no means perfect, but we are both happy and we actually talk now....and when we do, he listens to my side. We had a disagreement last week and my only prayer was please let him see my side of this. The next day I received an apology. Baby steps......I would never have gotten this 5 or even 2 or probably even 1 years ago. 

I feel for you and know how it eats at your self esteem as we try to justify to ourselves that it is normal and things will get better. It is a battle I still fight.


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## that_girl

Emotional abuse is what it is.

Do you want to tolerate it? I couldn't. I'd be done if he didn't want to get help for it. No one should live like that.


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## unbelievable

How's the sex life? It sounds like he's harboring resentment over something.


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## Lucianne

unbelievable said:


> How's the sex life? It sounds like he's harboring resentment over something.



I don't know the situation with this lady but I can honestly say there was a time when I received the silent treatment for 2 weeks because I didn't sweep off the porch on his timetable. Never said a word to me, just stopped responding to me. I cried, begged, asking what was wrong, he would not tell me. I was miserable. After 2 weeks (the porch had been swept off long before) he finally told me he was upset over the porch. I accepted it....and became more depressed because I thought I could not satisfy him. Sex was not the problem. I finally came to accept that is was just who he was and this was how he dealt with situations....and I let him treat me this way. I no longer accept this and it has been a battle but things are slowly getting better. Wish I had found my self worth many years ago.


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## that_girl

Lucianne said:


> I don't know the situation with this lady but I can honestly say there was a time when I received the silent treatment for 2 weeks because I didn't sweep off the porch on his timetable. Never said a word to me, just stopped responding to me. I cried, begged, asking what was wrong, he would not tell me. I was miserable. After 2 weeks (the porch had been swept off long before) he finally told me he was upset over the porch. I accepted it....and became more depressed because I thought I could not satisfy him. Sex was not the problem. I finally came to accept that is was just who he was and this was how he dealt with situations....and I let him treat me this way. I no longer accept this and it has been a battle but things are slowly getting better. Wish I had found my self worth many years ago.



Eff that. I get treated better by strangers.


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## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> Now we're on it again and going on ou 3rd week. I'm sad to say that I'm used to it and that I handle it differently than I used to. In the beginning I used to cry and beg for him to tell me what I did wrong, apologize for something I might have done or said to upset him and his answer would be :"if you think hard, you'll understand what you did wrong".



That sounds a LOT like my wife early in our marriage. Thank goodness she doesn't do that anymore. It would drive me nuts because sometimes I really had no idea what she was upset about. 

Eventually she stopped, I think it was from a combination of reasons. She gained more control in the relationship and over the finances, and I guess felt she didn't need to use the silent treatment anymore.

But how should you deal with it? Immediately, one solution is to simply leave the house, or go away on vacation in extreme circumstances. His silent treatment loses all its power if you are not around to "hear" it. 

I think it also helped when I clearly explained two things to my wife:


"Stop assuming I am you. I am not you. I am a different person so I don't think the same way you do. So I have no way of knowing what is wrong with you unless you tell me". 

"I didn't get married to spend half my life living with a stranger who's ignoring me. If you want to cut me out of your life, let's do it officially".

Now this part disturbs me even more: 



> I have no affection from him, not even when we're not on silent treatment... I feel like I dont exist, like he doesnt need me in his life...


WHAT?? If you have no affection from him even when times are good, isn't that a bigger problem than these silent treatments? Or are you so accustomed to no affection that you think it's "normal" by now? 

I assure you, it isn't.


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## Lucianne

that_girl said:


> Eff that. I get treated better by strangers.



That was the sad part....I did get treated better by strangers. I got respect for giving up my career to stay home with my children, but he would brag on himself by saying that he allowed it. I can say that life is pretty good for us now, but I don't accept the silent treatment in our house. Last time he tried I told him he would have to find somewhere else to stay until he was over it and he would have to explain it to kids.

I really wish I had respected myself more years ago....I thought (and still do) that I was doing what was best for our children. When I realized it was REALLY affecting them (my 10 year old gave me a letter telling me not to let daddy "get to me"...that he (my son) was always there for me) I knew things had to change. Seemed to break hubby's heart when he saw that I was serious and would not tolerate this anymore. Things are not perfect but are getting better (old habits are hard to break).

OP...my best advice to you speaking from experience is to stand up for yourself now! Let him know that things have to change, that you deserve better than this or there will be consequences to his actions. Consequences that he may not think you are capable of. Wish I had had the guts to do it sooner.


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## Uptown

Linda, the behaviors you're describing -- silent treatments lasting six weeks and the absence of love and affection -- is NOT normal behavior. If I had to guess, I would say you may be describing classic traits of narcissism. I therefore suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid opinion on what it is you're dealing with. 

I also suggest that, while you are looking for a good psychologist, you read The Narcissistic Silent Treatment. If that brief description of narcissism rings a bell, I suggest you also read The Three Phases of A Narcissistic Relationship Cycle: Over-Evaluation, Devaluation, Discard - Esteemology and Kathy Batesel's blog at Narcissism: Recognizing, Coping With, and Treating It. Take care, Linda.


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## frusdil

Linda you need to get out now. You are a victim of abuse. Emotional abuse. 

If you think this is good for your children think again. Do you want your daughter growing up to accept being treated this way and ending up in a marriage like that herself? Do you want your son to grow up thinking that it's ok to treat his wife that way? 

I don't think counselling would help in this situation, this is an ingrained behaviour and any benefit would take years to ripple down to his behaviour.

I've been with a man like this. He broke me. I finally crawled away completely gutted and a shell of the woman I was when I met him.

I am now married to a wonderful man who treats me like gold. You can have that too. I wish that for you xo


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## Advocado

Lucianne said:


> T....I thought (and still do) that I was doing what was best for our children. When I realized it was REALLY affecting them (my 10 year old gave me a letter telling me not to let daddy "get to me"...that he (my son) was always there for me) I knew things had to change. .....


This is just heartbreaking, and emphasises that it's important to let children know that silent treatment is not to be tolerated. They do notice and they can be very negatively affected by it. 

Lucianne - you must be so proud of your son. It took courage for him to reach out to you at such a tender age.


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## azteca1986

The Silent Treatment is your husband being Passive aggressive. He lacks the emotional maturity to engage in healthy adult conversations. When he asks you to "if you think hard, you'll understand what you did wrong", he is essentially telling you to read his mind. It's a ludicrous position to put you in.

Read this link and see if some of the behaviour traits are familiar
What is Passive Aggressive Behaviour?

I'm not surprised you have emotionally detached from your husband. His only recourse when he has a problem is to withdraw and blame you. Your husband needs professional help to understand himself and how to deal with the common everyday challenges of married life. It's not healthy for you or your child to continue in this environment as things stand.


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## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> WHAT?? If you have no affection from him even when times are good, isn't that a bigger problem than these silent treatments? Or are you so accustomed to no affection that you think it's "normal" by now?



When we first got married, we had sex on average once a week, then it moved to once a month (if I initiated, sometimes I got turned down or he wouldnt participate. He would just lay there like a doll) so I stopped initiating cause I couldn’t handle the rejection. Many times I tried to talk to him about it, but he doesn’t want to discuss it and sometimes gives me the silent treatment for days for bringing it up. With time it became once every 4 months… in the last 2 years we had sex once (8 months ago). 

No I dont think that this behavior is normal at all and have questionned him about it, wandering if he was getting it somewhere else to which his response was: "trust is the basis of marriage and if you don't trust me we have nothing to do together" but still doesnt give an explanation as to why he has no sexual desire for me... Tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can fix, change, improve it! Sex was never an issue before we got married! I feel worthless, incapable of arousing a man, rejected.... 




When in public, he acts like a loving husband... everyone thinks we are the perfect couple (except my parents who have notived how much I've changed)

He never gets dressed in front of me… locks the bathroom door when he is in there. If I get dressed in the room where he is, he turns the other way so not to see me. I find this so strange and depressing! Other than little pecks on the lips to say hello and goodnight, he hasn’t kissed me in the past 3 years, doesn’t hug, and doesn’t show any signs of affection. The last time he told me he loved me was 3 years ago when I gave birth. If I tell him, he doesn’t respond so I stopped telling him also. Once, when I asked him if he loves me, he answered: ‘I could love you more or I could love you less, it depends on you’…


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## Troubledlinda

frusdil said:


> I've been with a man like this. He broke me. I finally crawled away completely gutted and a shell of the woman I was when I met him.
> 
> I am now married to a wonderful man who treats me like gold. You can have that too. I wish that for you xo


Hello Frusdil, 

Thank you for your response! 
Just quick questions regarding your situation, if you don't mind. 
1) How long did you stay with your ex H and how long did the silent treatment last before you decided to leave? 

2) Do you have children with him? 

Thank you


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## azteca1986

Troubledlinda said:


> Once, when I asked him if he loves me, he answered: ‘I could love you more or I could love you less, it depends on you’…


So, he doesn't even take responsibility for loving you? Hmmm.


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## Cosmos

The Silent Treatment is a classic symptom of emotional abuse, and you might find this link helpful:- Signs of Emotional Abuse | World of Psychology

The longer you're with an abuser the more difficult it is to leave because one becomes enmeshed in their cycle of crazy-making behaviour, but leaving is usually the only option.

In what other ways does your H try to control you? Does he belittle your accomplishments, try to isolate you from family and friends? Does he yell at you and call you names?


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## Cosmos

unbelievable said:


> How's the sex life? It sounds like he's harboring resentment over something.


Abusers are always harbouring resentment over something. The way they feel about themselves and their lives is always the fault of others... This is one of the reasons they abuse.


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## Emerald

Troubledlinda said:


> My story in a nutshell:
> 
> Been married for 4 years and have a 3 year old child. I've been receiving the silent treatment from my H on and off since we've been together (we didnt live together until we married so it was easier to handle then as I didnt have to see him everyday) but it got worse after we got married. For the stupidest little thing, he would close off and not engage with me for days. The longest period of silence was last year, it lasted 6 weeks and I thought I would die... There was no word from him at all, no hello, no how are you, no nothing! He even left our room and slept on the couch for 6 weeks for something that I dont even remember.
> 
> Now we're on it again and going on ou 3rd week. I'm sad to say that I'm used to it and that I handle it differently than I used to. In the beginning I used to cry and beg for him to tell me what I did wrong, apologize for something I might have done or said to upset him and his answer would be :"if you think hard, you'll understand what you did wrong". Then when he decides that he's ok, he'll start talking to me again as if nothing ever happened; if I tried to talk about the issue, the cycle would start and I would get blamed for causing trouble again...
> 
> I can never talk about things that upset me, I cannot share my pains with him, I am afraid of saying things the wrong way and be "punished" again so I keep everything to myself and have very little conversations with him... even on good subjects, if my opinion is different than his, it becomes a problem.
> 
> I have no affection from him, not even when we're not on silent treatment... I feel like I dont exist, like he doesnt need me in his life...
> 
> Now on week 3 of a long series of silence, I live diffrently... I act as if I dont care. I do my own things, I limit my talks or questions to him, because I know that he will answer cruely and I'll react negatively, which will make it worse. So I try to look happy and take care of our son in normal way... but I'm tired of this, I'm in pain and I don't know what to do to make him see his wrong. Does he even care?
> 
> I'm thinking of leaving (I thought of it on the last one but stayed and hoped that things would change) but I'm thinking of my child and am scared.
> 
> Please help me


Does he give your child the silent treatment also?


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## MissFroggie

Troubledlinda said:


> My story in a nutshell:
> 
> Been married for 4 years and have a 3 year old child. *I've been receiving the silent treatment from my H on and off since we've been together* (we didnt live together until we married so it was easier to handle then as I didnt have to see him everyday) but *it got worse after we got married*. For the stupidest little thing, he would close off and not engage with me for days. The longest period of silence was last year, it lasted 6 weeks and I thought I would die... There was no word from him at all, no hello, no how are you, no nothing! He even left our room and slept on the couch *for 6 weeks for something that I dont even remember.*
> 
> Now we're on it again and going on ou 3rd week. I'm sad to say that I'm used to it and that I handle it differently than I used to. In the beginning *I used to cry and beg for him to tell me what I did wrong, apologize for something I might have done or said to upset him *and his answer would be :*"if you think hard, you'll understand what you did wrong"*. Then when he decides that he's ok, *he'll start talking to me again as if nothing ever happened; if I tried to talk about the issue, the cycle would start and I would get blamed for causing trouble again...*
> 
> I can never talk about things that upset me, I cannot share my pains with him, *I am afraid of saying things the wrong way and be "punished" again* so I keep everything to myself and have very little conversations with him... even on good subjects, if my opinion is different than his, it becomes a problem.
> 
> I have no affection from him, not even when we're not on silent treatment... *I feel like I dont exist*, like he doesnt need me in his life...
> 
> Now on week 3 of a long series of silence, I live diffrently... I act as if I dont care. I do my own things, I limit my talks or questions to him, because *I know that he will answer cruely and I'll react negatively*, which will make it worse. So *I try to look happy and take care of our son in normal way*... but I'm tired of this, I'm in pain and I don't know what to do to make him see his wrong. Does he even care?
> 
> I'm thinking of leaving (I thought of it on the last one but stayed and hoped that things would change) but I'm thinking of my child and am scared.
> 
> Please help me


Even the people who have posted that they have had this and their relationships are better have said that they are still battling with this behaviour - it may have improved but it has not been turned around.

There are no two ways to view this - it is ABUSE! You and your child have no life with this controlling sociopath. Some of the links provided by other posters are excellent - try to find time to read them hon. Treating you like this is emotional abuse and whether he actively ignores your child too or not it is emotionally abusive to his child to treat you like this. Your child sees everything, even if you think you can protect them from that, you can't, none of us can.

Discuss this with a domestic abuse specialist and get some support. Know your options and have a plan so you can get out safely. If you stay this will be your battle for the rest of your life - you deserve so much better ... even alone is better than this! I was given advice on communicating with my ex about the silent treatment he was giving me - when I tried it he flew into a rage and beat me. The neighbours heard it through the walls and called the police for me. I don't know how far it would have gone if the police had not turned up. I'm not saying it to scare you, just to warn you to be prepared and safe because sometimes these people will escalate it when confronted. Don't do it alone. Please get out and be safe with your child. Abuse is abuse and it is not your job to fix him, he can do that on his own time and without you having to go through it all too. I hope this isn't too forceful, please know it comes from a fear in reading what you have said because it is so similar to the situation I was in and needed help from police, my letting agency and lots of friends and neighbours to escape it. Your post breaks my heart and I just want you to be safe and get your confidence and sparkle back xx


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## Caribbean Man

Troubledlinda said:


> .
> *The longest period of silence was last year, it lasted 6 weeks and I thought I would die... *


Miss Linda,
The part of your post I highlighted above troubles me.
It troubles me because for SIX weeks this man gave you the silent abuse treatment and I am supposing that you continued begging him, crying , cooking for him , doing his laundry and generally supporting him as a faithful wife does.

The problem I'm seeing here is that your passivity and compliance is enabling him and making him more determined to continue abusing you.
He looks at you and treats you with contempt and it can only get worse.
Notice you are the one coming here, desperately seeking support and help, when it should be him.

I cannot honestly tell you to stay living with this man because the abuse would only get worse. He needs professional help, and the only way he would understand this is if you leave him.
You might also need some form of counselling.
Please seek outside help and,
Take care of yourself and your kids.


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## Fleur de Cactus

Leave him , your husband sounds Narcissist and N do not know or accept they have issues . N always blame others , the biggest issues with N , they dont love , they dont know how , they want others love and attention , but never give love back. Ic does not work , they do not care .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northernlights

Troubledlinda said:


> When in public, he acts like a loving husband... everyone thinks we are the perfect couple (except my parents who have notived how much I've changed)



He does this on purpose because he cares more about appearing to be a good husband/family than being one. My husband is passive aggressive too, and so much of what you've written is familiar. Even down to the not undressing in front of me and not saying "I love you." Gosh, I don't think I've heard that in years. And I've never seen him change clothes. I always thought of that as a weird quirk, but it's probably due to their inability to show vulnerability/weakness.

Get out. He has to want to change, and it's probably not going to happen. I separated from my H earlier this year, and he didn't bat an eye. We're living together again because I am not ready to accept less than 100% custody of the children, but the marriage is over.

Read Codependent No More (or The New Codependency) by Melodie Beattie and this article on the drama triangle The Drama Triangle: The Three Roles of Victimhood - article by Dr. Lynne Namka. Also we have a spouses of passive aggressives support thread down below that I'll dig up a link for in a minute.

Good luck and hugs for all you've been through.


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## MissFroggie

I think it is important for you to know that this is in no way your fault. You have not done anything wrong. You will be told by your H that it is ALL your fault. This is a LIE. Putting up with it is typical because they beat us down so much. Trying to fix it, trying harder to please...all still their fault because you have been reduced to feeling like you have to work harder to be accepted. He is to blame and no-one else. He won't ever take full responsibility for what he is doing so even if he 'tries to change' etc you will always be blamed even if it becomes only 'partially your fault' ... and guess which part of blame he'll keep coming back to? You guessed - it'll always come back to whatever he can blame you for and he'll still shirk responsibility for his actions. RUN!!! x


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## ladybird54

Hi troubledlinda.my name is lynda aswell,are you sure you are not living with my partner,he does exactly the same thing with me,we are seperated again for the third time since we have been together in 6 years,he has moved in the spare room its been 5 weeks now,if you want to reaf my post feel free,but please dont judge us nastily like the replies i have had back,if you want to chat let me know.lynda,


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## 6301

My first wife was a grudge holder. She would get mad and stay that way for days. One day I told her that if she's going to act like that, then take it someplace else. She thought that if she did, I would come after her. She left with a small suitcase. The next day she called me from where she worked and told me she was staying with her girlfriend, that they are having a grand time and she'll come back when I apologize. 

I was a easy going person and didn't go looking to make matters worse and I thought about meeting her and talking. Then I thought about it and realized that if she would only talk rather than get mean and hold grudges she would be at home. 

Her mistake was telling me where she was and when her and her girlfriend came home from work, I was already there and gone, but I left her two more suitcases of clothes and a few dresses for work and a note saying that "if your having such a good time, then stay a lot longer. I think I'll do the same". She called that night and I didn't answer the phone. The following day she called when I got home from work and I didn't answer. Went to bed that night and around two in the morning she came back. Her attitude changed and for a while everything was fine but after 10 years, it ended. Point is. She couldn't handle it when she got the silent treatment. Maybe you should hand him his coat and tell him not to come back until he stops acting like a drone.


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## northernlights

Here's a link to the thread I mentioned: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...live-passive-aggressive-spouse-long-term.html


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## AVR1962

azteca1986 said:


> The Silent Treatment is your husband being Passive aggressive. He lacks the emotional maturity to engage in healthy adult conversations. When he asks you to "if you think hard, you'll understand what you did wrong", he is essentially telling you to read his mind. It's a ludicrous position to put you in.
> 
> Read this link and see if some of the behaviour traits are familiar
> What is Passive Aggressive Behaviour?
> 
> I'm not surprised you have emotionally detached from your husband. His only recourse when he has a problem is to withdraw and blame you. Your husband needs professional help to understand himself and how to deal with the common everyday challenges of married life. It's not healthy for you or your child to continue in this environment as things stand.


This is completely correct. Silence is a controlling tactic used in the passive-aggressive game. I have been with a PA now for 24 years, it does not get better. You become very detached. You learn your opinion means little, that they will do what they want to regardless and you will pay the price ultimately. Yu will be blamed for any and everything. I kept working at it thinking there was something I could do or change. I should have left long long ago.


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## northernlights

AVR1962 said:


> I kept working at it thinking there was something I could do or change. I should have left long long ago.


I've yet to find one spouse of a PA on here who is happy having stayed. It's a really, really hard realization to come to.


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## MissFroggie

Why do you want to make your marriage work? It should not be work, it should be joy, laughter, fun, enjoyment, play, talking ... it should be all things beauteous, but never 'work' xxx


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## azteca1986

MissFroggie said:


> Why do you want to make your marriage work? It should not be work, it should be joy, laughter, fun, enjoyment, play, talking ... it should be all things beauteous, but never 'work' xxx


All marriages require work. 

When I was growing up I was taught that only little boys sulk; men should either spit it out or suck it up. I gave my future wife a more delicate introduction to that concept when she tried to pull the silent treatment on me early on in our relationship. I'm so grateful she changed. The alternative is to have a 'free and frank exchange of views'. It can mean a certain amount of short-term drama, but at least both parties are trying to move from 'where we are now' to someplace better.

I just can't stand PA behaviour; deliberately making yourself a emotional blackhole to suck out another person's spirit.


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## Troubledlinda

Emerald said:


> Does he give your child the silent treatment also?


No, he doesn't give our son the silent treatment, he's actually affectionate with him, which shows me that he is capable of it even if sometimes I wander if he does it to make me jaleous. 

However, when he is angry with me, he comes home later than usual (around 8h30pm when he would normally come home around 7h30pm, which is still a bit late) and our son is already in bed so he doesn't see him sometimes for 3, 4 days (except a few minutes in the AM before he goes off to work)


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## Troubledlinda

Caribbean Man said:


> Miss Linda,
> for SIX weeks this man gave you the silent abuse treatment and I am supposing that you continued begging him, crying , cooking for him , doing his laundry and generally supporting him as a faithful wife does.
> 
> The problem I'm seeing here is that your passivity and compliance is enabling him and making him more determined to continue abusing you.
> He looks at you and treats you with contempt and it can only get worse.
> Notice you are the one coming here, desperately seeking support and help, when it should be him.
> 
> Yes, I did all my "duties" as a wife would do. Sometimes he would eat my food, sometimes not.
> I tried to make conversation with him but he would either mumble something, or respond in a mean tone, which made me stop asking questions... if something was important we would text or email each other.
> 
> Maybe you are right about me being passive or compliant with his behavior but honestly I don't know how else to handle this, guess that's why I'm here to hear from other's experience and or suggestions... this is mind boggling! Sometimes I feel like I'm crazy and feeling like this can't be happening, I feel like I'm overreacting... It is a very very strange feeling!


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## Lucianne

I feel for you so much right now...my heart hurts. I know what you are going through. I can look back through the years and realize that I "taught" my husband that it was okay to treat me this way. I, like you, continued to do my "wifely duties" and take care of him and the kids, then I would go to my room and cry....feeling nothing but contempt for him, and he didn't seem to care. If I'm completely honest I was scared to death. I was home with my kids, had no financial means and did not see a way out. If we had not had kids, I would have been gone years ago.

When I finally stood up to him and told him I had nothing to lose, I wouldn't live this life anymore, something triggered with him. Most days are happy days now, our relationship is better and his relationship with the kids is so much improved. 

I can only say that I wish fear had not consumed me so many years ago. I am so upset that I allowed this to go on for so long. We are kinda in the middle of a disagreement right now but we are handling it so differently, I was not afraid to voice my opinion and he knows I won't accept the silent treatment just because he does not agree with me. After much thought I think I am the one who is being stubborn right now not him! But it feels so good to be able to handle situations like adults and even when we don't agree can go to bed and kiss each other good night and mean it.

Good luck with everything...I dealt with this for about 12 years and wish I had faced it head on long ago.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Lucianne said:


> I feel for you so much right now...my heart hurts. I know what you are going through. I can look back through the years and realize that I "taught" my husband that it was okay to treat me this way. I, like you, continued to do my "wifely duties" and take care of him and the kids, then I would go to my room and cry....feeling nothing but contempt for him, and he didn't seem to care. If I'm completely honest I was scared to death. I was home with my kids, had no financial means and did not see a way out. If we had not had kids, I would have been gone years ago.
> 
> When I finally stood up to him and told him I had nothing to lose, I wouldn't live this life anymore, something triggered with him. Most days are happy days now, our relationship is better and his relationship with the kids is so much improved.
> 
> I can only say that I wish fear had not consumed me so many years ago. I am so upset that I allowed this to go on for so long. We are kinda in the middle of a disagreement right now but we are handling it so differently, I was not afraid to voice my opinion and he knows I won't accept the silent treatment just because he does not agree with me. After much thought I think I am the one who is being stubborn right now not him! But it feels so good to be able to handle situations like adults and even when we don't agree can go to bed and kiss each other good night and mean it.
> 
> Good luck with everything...I dealt with this for about 12 years and wish I had faced it head on long ago.


Lucianne, 

Thank you for your post, which literally brought tears to my eyes. My biggest wish is that my situation turns around for the better like yours... I would give anything for things to be good for us, I wish I could voice my opinions freely, I wish I didn't have to walk on eggshells everyday, I wish I didnt' have a know in my stomach everytime I hear the car in the driveway... I wish, I wish, I wish... 

I'm paralyzed by fear! My head knows that I don't deserve this yet my heart wants to keep trying... like you said, if I didn't have a child, I probably would have left long ago... but I look at my son and it breaks my heart to think of him growing up without his dad around... 

I recently quit my job, to be a stay at home mom. For 2 years H asked me to do so and I finally accepted, thinking it would maybe help make things better for us, but no change. So I am now financially dependent and spend my days at home thinking and thinking and thinking of all my problems.... pffff! what a mess

Feeling depressed and empty all the time, I "filled" myself with food so I've gained a lot of weight but I recently joined the gym and at least I feel a bit better


----------



## Lucianne

We are, and I suspect will continue to be for a long time, a work in progress. Things are by no means perfect, but if you have not lived through it it is hard to understand. Depression came and went for me through the years. I love my family, I didn't always even like my husband...and I suspect he didn't me either. There were times I felt like an obligation to him as the mother of his children. My whole family walked on eggshells at times.

I would always tell my kids "Your daddy is a good man, he just has a lot on his mind". I guess that was me trying to protect them from the truth, which as I found out through a letter from my son, I didn't do a very good job of. 

I think I had to almost hit rock bottom before I could see the truth myself, I was not the pathetic one, he was. I believe we choose to be happy or not, and he seemed to thrive off of the misery. My hope and prayer is that we never go back and that he really is seeing the difference in our family unit simply based on his behaviors being more positive, but there is always that fear. I still do not completely trust him. I had withdrawn so far from him that I struggle sometimes to be open with him. Last year I was sure that we would be separated/divorced by now...it is hard to undo so many years of mistreatment. But for right now, it feels right!

I cannot tell you what to do but I can tell you I understand. I know that feeling of not wanting to hear him come home because you know it will just be more of the same unless....he has decided that it is time to be over. I am crying as I type this now......I am so sorry you are going through this.


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## Troubledlinda

I overheard him tell someone that he was going away on a business trip on tuesday (tomorrow) - Not sure if he said it because I was standing near him, so I could hear. 

At least I'll have peace for a few days but it still hurts because I would think my H would inform me when he's going out of town...


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## CallaLily

Troubledlinda said:


> I overheard him tell someone that he was going away on a business trip on tuesday (tomorrow) - Not sure if he said it because I was standing near him, so I could hear.
> 
> At least I'll have peace for a few days but it still hurts because I would think my H would inform me when he's going out of town...


He should tell you, its called respect, and it seems he has none. Kids or no kids, I wouldn't continue to stay in a emotionally damaging situation.IMO, the longer you stay the more it damages all involved.


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## MissFroggie

He's deliberately disrespecting you and manipulating things to hurt you. He's selfish and controlling and that will never stop. PA partners are impossible to deal with, they'll always find ways to keep you down and control you both physically and emotionally. The emotional control they hold over you is their weapon of choice and hurts so much because it is prolonged and you are made to feel it is all your fault. Get out hon, while he is away might be a good opportunity to get some help.

(Oh and my comment about marriage and work etc - I wasn't meaning there should never be things to work through or that a marriage is always the fairytale, I said it because you don't seem to have ANY happiness or joy here and you deserve a relationship that makes you feel good and encourages you to be more than you are not one that makes you feel depressed and holds you back from things that make you feel good) xx


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## Troubledlinda

Oh! He just sent me a text message saying that he's going on a business trip from tuesday to friday.


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## LonelyinLove

Oh yeah, my spoiled baby of the family husband tried this crap on me....and it stopped the day he had to fish his golf clubs out of the lake...

He left them in the foyer, and wouldn't answer me when I asked him to put them away...so I had to put them somewhere....


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## SaltInWound

azteca1986 said:


> I just can't stand PA behaviour; deliberately making yourself a emotional blackhole to suck out another person's spirit.


That sum it up nicely.


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## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> In the beginning I used to cry and beg for him to tell me what I did wrong, apologize for something I might have done or said to upset him and his answer would be :"if you think hard, you'll understand what you did wrong".


If you decide to leave him, when he calls and asks you why, you can tell him: _"if you think hard, you'll understand what you did wrong_".

This thread is pretty disturbing. For your own mental health, I *strongly* recommend marriage counseling. If he refuses to go, leave the house until he agrees. If he never agrees, then tell him you'll be giving each other the "silent treatment" permanently. 



Troubledlinda said:


> Oh! He just sent me a text message saying that he's going on a business trip from tuesday to friday.


Isn't it cute when the spouse is the last person to be told, like it's an afterthought? (and by text, no less). Oh well... from everything you described here, that's the least of his problems.


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## Troubledlinda

Uptown said:


> I also suggest that, while you are looking for a good psychologist, you read The Narcissistic Silent Treatment. If that brief description of narcissism rings a bell, I suggest you also read The Three Phases of A Narcissistic Relationship Cycle: Over-Evaluation, Devaluation, Discard - Esteemology and Kathy Batesel's blog at Narcissism: Recognizing, Coping With, and Treating It. Take care, Linda.


Hello Uptown and thanks for your repsonse. 

I read the articles you suggested in your post... the truth in them is so scary. I can't believe I neglected the red flags and got myself in this type of relationship... 

I guess it's always been like this, but in smaller doses... I'm embarassed and ashamed to say that my H gave me the silent treatment for 2 days on our honeymoon! HONEYMOON for crying out loud....pffffff 

My goal now is to rebuild my confidence and self-esteem so I can stand firm with my head held high. I don't deserve this! Nobody does!


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## frusdil

Troubledlinda said:


> ...he hasn’t kissed me in the past 3 years, doesn’t hug, and doesn’t show any signs of affection. The last time he told me he loved me was 3 years ago when I gave birth. If I tell him, he doesn’t respond so I stopped telling him also. Once, when I asked him if he loves me, he answered: ‘I could love you more or I could love you less, it depends on you’…


Oh Linda this is just heartbreaking 

Sweetie you need to leave now...for both you and your son's sake. Your son will still have his dad and he will flourish in a normal living environment with you.

The longer you stay, the harder it will be to leave. I'm concerned that if you give your husband the ultimatum he'll call your bluff and follow up with more of the same, further eroding your self esteem, which is already at an all time low.

Please get some urgent counselling just for you, at the very least...


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## Troubledlinda

so, my H left early this morning for his business trip, I was awake but still in bed. After packing and getting ready, he just said: "Ok, I'm leaving, bye-bye" and he left. No kiss, no hug. 

Normally he would give me details of flights and hotel, etc. This time he just gave me the city so I have no idea what time is flight is, what time friday he's flying back.... This really sucks.


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## trey69

Is it possible he is seeing someone else? The silent treatment is damaging enough but to not give you details of his
whereabouts on a outbof town trip, no hug or kiss bye or anything just takes the cake. Enough of this treatment towards you
will only be enough when you say it's enough. How long will he be away for? Maybe have separation papers on the kitchen 
table for him when he gets in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyinLove

Troubledlinda said:


> so, my H left early this morning for his business trip, I was awake but still in bed. After packing and getting ready, he just said: "Ok, I'm leaving, bye-bye" and he left. No kiss, no hug.
> 
> Normally he would give me details of flights and hotel, etc. This time he just gave me the city so I have no idea what time is flight is, what time friday he's flying back.... This really sucks.


Oh that really sucks.....Suppose you had to reach him in an emergency....

Call his secretary and GET the details....and if he gets pi$$ed off...oh well...

Dude is really acting like a baby.


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## RandomDude

I put up with this with my STBXW in the past, eventually I learnt to poke poke poke until she exploded so we could actually fix things. But nowadays if I was to deal with that BS again, I'll just say "FK IT", I've dealt with it long enough.

It's now a dealbreaker


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## Troubledlinda

LonelyinLove said:


> Oh that really sucks.....Suppose you had to reach him in an emergency....
> 
> Dude is really acting like a baby.


I guess I can always contact him via text or call his cell phone...
He was maybe waiting for me to ask or question but I didn't because I'm tired of always being the one running after him. 

Surprise! as I'm writing this message I just got a text saying he's arrived safely and gave me name of hotel.... Now I'm wandring if he's delaying giving me info on purpose to make me wander if he will or not or is it me who's overreacting??? I feel like I'm going crazy.


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## Troubledlinda

trey69 said:


> Is it possible he is seeing someone else? How long will he be away for?
> 
> Maybe have separation papers on the kitchen
> table for him when he gets in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Our sex life is non existent and many times in the past 4 years I tried to talk to him about it, but he doesn’t want to discuss it and sometimes gives me the silent treatment for days for bringing it up. With time it became once every 4 months… in the last 2 years we had sex once (8 months ago). At one point early in our marriage I asked him if he was seeing someone as I couldn't understand how a man could go days and weeks without ever needing sex... I mean, isn't that always on a man's mind? He got angry with me and said that trust was the basis of marriage and if I didn't trust him, then we didn't have anything to do together... but at the same time, he never gave me an explanation to why he has no desires for me (which never happened before marriage).

Reagrding separation papers, I am not yet on that level. I have to think of a plan, get organized and decide if that's what I really want... as silly as this may sound I still hope that things can change for the better, I just have to try everuthing I can before I call it quits... In the meantime I come and vent here.


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## ManOhMan2013

To the original poster: There is hope!
My wife used to give me the silent treatment all the time! When we dated she would do it for weeks. When we first got married she would do it for days on end!! 

The silent treatment is a cruel form of emotional abuse and a means of gaining power. It is selfish and a way to punish the person receiving it. AND IT IS UNACCEPTABLE! 

You should tell your spouse that it is unacceptable and a means of abuse. But do it in a calm way that does not demean him. Perhaps get him a book on it. Seek therapy together.

The good news is, my wife hardly gives me the silent treatment anymore. Honest! She just doesn't do it! Sure, we might not talk for an evening, but that's only both of us staying out of each other's way. But she won't punish me by not talking to me for days on end anymore. I hope it will change for you too.


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## trey69

Here is my suggestion. When dealing with a man child, and he is acting childish. I would ignore his attempts at being passive-aggressive. Go about your business, get some hobbies and turn your attention towards that. If he calls, or texts, to let you know where he is, say ok thanks, and go about your day. Do not bend over backwards or go out of your way to be so available or jump when he says how high. People keep doing things if they are getting something from it, my guess is he knows his behavior upsets you. Don't let it. In the mean time get your ducks in a row on what you think you may need to do. Also get you some books on or read up on the web about dealing with passive-aggressive behavior, theres usually some good tips on that. Basically you would be learning how to detach from another persons behavior. Everyone can benefit from learning to do that with anyone that displays damaging behavior.


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## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> in the last 2 years we had sex once (8 months ago).


I think that and the lack of affection should be the bigger dealbreaker here, even more than the silent treatment. You didn't get married to live with your brother, after all.



> _ At one point early in our marriage I asked him if he was seeing someone as I couldn't understand how a man could go days and weeks without ever needing sex... I mean, isn't that always on a man's mind? He got angry with me and said that trust was the basis of marriage and if I didn't trust him, then we didn't have anything to do together... but at the same time, he never gave me an explanation to why he has no desires for me (which never happened before marriage)._


There are many possibilities other than cheating. How old is he? Unfortunately, one of the top possibilities is that he's gay. 



> _Reagrding separation papers, I am not yet on that level. I have to think of a plan, get organized and decide if that's what I really want... as silly as this may sound I still hope that things can change for the better, I just have to try everuthing I can before I call it quits... In the meantime I come and vent here._


I don't hold out much hope here. But you BOTH need to at least try marriage counseling so you know you did everything you could.


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## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> There are many possibilities other than cheating. How old is he? Unfortunately, one of the top possibilities is that he's gay.
> QUOTE]
> 
> He is 44. I honestly don't think he is gay. Maybe he's just not attracted to me anymore... Maybe I'm not his type, maybe he didn't marry me for love... but gay?? no, I don't think so.
> 
> As for marriaga counselling, he doesn't need any... he seems to think he has no problems and if only I would "fix" myself and be more kind, our marriage would be so much better. Then again, the word "kind" means different things to different people...


----------



## trey69

Troubledlinda said:


> Theseus said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for marriaga counselling, he doesn't need any... he seems to think he has no problems and if only I would "fix" myself and be more kind, our marriage would be so much better. Then again, the word "kind" means different things to different people...
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the people that I know who have some issues and need serious help usually think they DON'T have any issues and its always the other person that has the issues or needs help. Its very Narcissistic of them. Your husband sounds a but Narcissistic.
> 
> As far as you needing help, you do. If you plan on continuing to live with him then you will need to arm yourself with knowledge of how to deal with people such as your husband, so you will not suffer anymore emotional damage, or at least it will be kept to a minimum. As I mentioned earlier get you some info on passive aggressive behavior and how to deal with it. Learn detachment techniques etc, and possibly learn about Narcissism.
Click to expand...


----------



## Troubledlinda

trey69 said:


> Troubledlinda said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as you needing help, you do. If you plan on continuing to live with him then you will need to arm yourself with knowledge of how to deal with people such as your husband, so you will not suffer anymore emotional damage, or at least it will be kept to a minimum. As I mentioned earlier get you some info on passive aggressive behavior and how to deal with it. Learn detachment techniques etc, and possibly learn about Narcissism.
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Trey69,
> 
> Yes, I have been reading a lot about silent treatment and recently abour narcissim. I've been trying to put in action the suggestions I found on those articles I read and it has helped a bit to understand that I am not crazy and that his behavior is wrong... In early days of our marriage, I was a wreck everytime this happened, I would beg and cry and plead with him... The first time he left our room to sleep on the couch, I was pregnant so the hormonal rollercoaster made it worse... I followed him and slept on the other couch just so we would be in the same room, pathetic!
> 
> Now I "try" to go on my days doing what I need to do and keep my mind busy, knowing that eventually he will come back to "normal". The hard part comes during evenings and weekends when we have to be in the same house and ignore each other.
Click to expand...


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## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> As for marriaga counselling, he doesn't need any... he seems to think he has no problems and if only I would "fix" myself and be more kind, our marriage would be so much better.


That's a very common misconception. Marriage counseling isn't about fixing someone, that's what individual therapy is for. Marriage counseling is about helping the couple develop the skills they need to resolve their conflicts better and figure out ways to live together more happily. 

He might agree to it, if you "sell" MC this way: _"It's obvious that I'm upsetting you and I don't understand why, so you can tell the marriage counselor everything I'm doing wrong, and we'll fix things from there"._

If that doesn't work you might be able to shame him into it this way: _"You've obviously lost attraction for me, so we need to go into counseling to find out if you're gay"._ The real point is to get him there.

If he still won't go, I recommend leaving the home until he agrees to it. How else do you think these things will be resolved? I really doubt these problems will fix themselves.


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## MarriedTex

I recognize that you're not ready. But if you had the strength right now, it would be perfect opportunity to let him come home to an empty house on Friday. Just a note: "Baby and I are safe. I need time to think about our future. Do not try to contact me." Then, let him stew in his own juices for awhile. 

Are there friends you could go stay with for a week or so? Maybe do friends for a week, then go visit family for another week. Could give him nice quiet solitude to think about things.


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## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Our sex life is non existent and many times in the past 4 years I tried to talk to him about it, but he doesn’t want to discuss it and sometimes gives me the silent treatment for days for bringing it up. With time it became once every 4 months… in the last 2 years we had sex once (8 months ago). At one point early in our marriage I asked him if he was seeing someone as I couldn't understand how a man could go days and weeks without ever needing sex... I mean, isn't that always on a man's mind? He got angry with me and said that trust was the basis of marriage and if I didn't trust him, then we didn't have anything to do together... but at the same time, *he never gave me an explanation to why he has no desires for me* (which never happened before marriage).


Oh, one of the favorite passive aggressive tactics........avoid answering a direct question. In this case, he has become angry to intimidate you. And he has turned it around to make himself the victim.......you don't trust him. See how interesting this is? He is the one giving you information on what keeps a marriage healthy (trust), yet communication is of dire importance for a marriage and well, he is silent. And like many passive aggressives, your husband waited until after the wedding to show his true colors.


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## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> Now I "try" to go on my days doing what I need to do and keep my mind busy, knowing that eventually he will come back to "normal". The hard part comes during evenings and weekends when we have to be in the same house and ignore each other.
> 
> 
> 
> See, here is the reality, Linda...the abuse, the silent treatments, the controlling behavior...THAT is your NORMAL. This is a pattern, pay attention and you will see it. IT WONT CHANGE. I was married to a man just like your H. After days of the silent treatment, after an argument and tantrum over nothing, he would just suddenly start talking to me again. No apologies EVER. And I would be so happy that he was, as you said, "back to normal" that I would just move on. It only got worse, and I finally saw the pattern. It wont change. I LEFT. I have not had ONE SINGLE DAY of regret about it either! My ex is still a bitter, hateful old man today.
Click to expand...


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## Fleur de Cactus

U should get out this marriage , u will not get anything beside silent treatment since ur h will never love u , he will never change , he is blaming u for not loving u , it is very toxic situation, please leave !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sparkyjim

It is all about validation...


You are thinking, "If I am worthy of love then this guy will love me the way that I want to be loved."

Um.... NO!

He is not capable of loving you the way that you want. I suspect that he never was, and never will be.

You want to stay and try to find that magic something that will fix this relationship. That's understandable because you have children together and better the poison that you know than the poison that you don't know.

But, basically your man is an emotional self absorbed child - that is his nature - and he will never change.

He might be capable of seeming like he has changed for short periods of time - but no - that is his nature and he will always come back to that because that is who he is.

You will never know if you are worthy of love (my opinion is that you are - you just need to heal yourself from this relationship) as long as you stay in this relationship.

There has been a lot of good advice in this thread. I think you should really consider your exit plan. You are practically living alone anyhow.

You need time on your own to get yourself back together. I hope you find what you need.


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## Fee_

This is horrible. You are in an abusive marriage. Because these behaviors have been tolerated so far, chances are he is not going to change. This is a disgusting environment for you and your child to be in. I would get out now.

Silent abuse â€“ The mind game by Teresa Cooper | No 2 Abuse

Out of the FOG - The Silent Treatment


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## Troubledlinda

Thank you everyone for your support and advice. I will take some time to educate myself more on this topic and learn how to live with such a person and at the same time get my ducks in row for a plan B.


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## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Thank you everyone for your support and advice. I will take some time to educate myself more on this topic and learn how to live with such a person and at the same time get my ducks in row for a plan B.


The only way you can live with a passive aggressive is to emotionally detach.


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## Fee_

SaltInWound said:


> The only way you can live with a passive aggressive is to emotionally detach.


And that's not living.


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## Fee_

3Xnocharm said:


> See, here is the reality, Linda...the abuse, the silent treatments, the controlling behavior...THAT is your NORMAL. This is a pattern, pay attention and you will see it. IT WONT CHANGE. I was married to a man just like your H. After days of the silent treatment, after an argument and tantrum over nothing, he would just suddenly start talking to me again. No apologies EVER. And I would be so happy that he was, as you said, "back to normal" that I would just move on. It only got worse, and I finally saw the pattern. It wont change. I LEFT. I have not had ONE SINGLE DAY of regret about it either! My ex is still a bitter, hateful old man today.


I had an ex (read: EX) like this too Linda. Walking on eggshells all the time, never knowing what would set off his mood swings, coldness, and tantrums. It is an extremely unhealthy and toxic way to live. It's good you're thinking of your options now. Despite your love for him you need to start thinking of yourself and your son. Be strong and wise. Life is too short to spend it in misery.


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## Jellybeans

This is emotional abuse.

I have lived it. Do know: it rarely gets better over time.

Talk to him about how this makes you feel and then do something different. 

You can't make him do anything, but you can change your reaction.

The last time my exH gave me the silent treatment (it was up to weeks-long by then), I moved out. Never went back.

It is one of the most invalidating things ever to have to live through and it is NOT loving behavior.


----------



## Jellybeans

3Xnocharm said:


> I was married to a man just like your H. After days of the silent treatment, after an argument and tantrum over nothing, he would just suddenly start talking to me again. No apologies EVER. And I would be so happy that he was, as you said, "back to normal" that I would just move on. It only got worse, and I finally saw the pattern. It wont change. I LEFT


Had the same experience, 3x.


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## Jellybeans

Troubled, 

What have his relationships been like with other women? (Romantic relationships).


----------



## Troubledlinda

Jellybeans said:


> Troubled,
> 
> What have his relationships been like with other women? (Romantic relationships).


To be honest, he's never really wanted to get into details about his past relationships and talked about them vaguely. I know that he had 2 serious ones but most of them have been "casual" ones. He's always said that the past is not that important... He never really questionned my past either... 

He got married late, a 40.


----------



## Jellybeans

How long have you guys been together? 

I asked you about his exes because I was wondering if he says the relationships ended because of THEM, and accepts not responsibility on his part.

I have BEEN YOU, Linda. I mean, seriously seriously had a major major problem with the silent treatment in my marriage. It sucks. People who have never lived it cannot fathom what it's like. My guess is that he tries to be manipulative in other ways.

My ex did a lot of crap things to me, but nothing hurt me more than when he'd give me the silent treatment. It felt like being a ghost in my own house. There were days I did not even want to come home from work.


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## Fee_

sparkyjim said:


> I think you should really consider your exit plan. You are practically living alone anyhow.


:iagree: So true.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Fee_ said:


> :iagree: So true.


Yes I do feel alone and lonely most of the time, even when he sits right next to me (in good days) 

I feel like I do everything myself, he works 10 - 12 hour days so only he gets home around 8:00PM and when on silent treatment, usually around 8h30 - 9h00PM 

I once asked him if just once a week he could come home early, around 6:00PM so we could at least have dinner as a family and chill all together with our son.... but I think he did it maybe once or twice... Same thing for going to bed, I usually go around 10:00PM but he comes to bed around 12h30, 1:00AM so we hardly ever go to bed at the same time... and again I asked him to make an effort just once or twice a week to go at the same time... or to compromise, we could both go at 11:00PM but noooo, not interested, so yes I am alone.


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## Troubledlinda

3Xnocharm said:


> Troubledlinda said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was married to a man just like your H. After days of the silent treatment, after an argument and tantrum over nothing, he would just suddenly start talking to me again. No apologies EVER. And I would be so happy that he was, as you said, "back to normal" that I would just move on. It only got worse, and I finally saw the pattern. It wont change. I LEFT. I have not had ONE SINGLE DAY of regret about it either! My ex is still a bitter, hateful old man today.
> 
> 
> 
> So true, I have never received an apology from my H for any of the things he has done to me: sleeping on the couch, insulting me (he did once or twice at the beginng of marriage and I told him never to insult me again, which he hasn't) ignoring me for days, depriving me of affection... He once told me that saying sorry was a sign of weakness... When I do apologize for hurting him or whatever (I'm not perfect, I have my share of faults) he says that there is no need for me to sa sorry cause he knows I will do it (the fault) again.
> 
> How was your life after you left? Do you have children together?
Click to expand...


----------



## lynst

If you can't share your feelings with him, he isn't your friend. If there is no friendship in marriage, there is no closeness. (Been livng in that for 22 years, and it never gets easier.) It will chip away at you, and you will end up angry and bitter and will despise him OR you will leave. One person can only take so much. His abuse of you must stop OR he will have repurcussions of the which he will not even see he is the cause of. I just hope you have a personal friend to vent to and share things with so you feel like someone does care when he maybe does not.


----------



## Fee_

Troubledlinda said:


> (I*'m not perfect, I have my share of faults*) he says that there is no need for me to sa sorry cause he knows I will do it (the fault) again.


Love is supposed to love you _in spite of_ your faults, not remind you of them at every moment. This sounds just like my emotionally abusive ex. I was always treading from one foot to the other apologising for the various crimes he was punishing me for - particularly for not being telepathic. They do this to maintain control over you. If you can't read his mind of course you are going to "slip up again". Who is he to judge you anyway? You're a human being not his robot. Abusers hold you to unobtainable standards of perfection but on the flipside can treat you as hideously as they want and never apologise. I can't believe you've put up with this for so long. It's torture.


----------



## Troubledlinda




----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> [0]
> 
> How was your life after you left? Do you have children together?


PEACEFUL!!!! 

And no, no kids together, thank goodness.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Same thing for going to bed, I usually go around 10:00PM but he comes to bed around 12h30, 1:00AM so we hardly ever go to bed at the same time... and again I asked him to make an effort just once or twice a week to go at the same time... or to compromise, we could both go at 11:00PM but noooo, not interested, so yes I am alone.


He does that to avoid sex.....another way a passive aggressive punished their spouse. My stbxh did not even want me looking at him. The only way I can describe life with him was 20+ years of prison. He is so toxic I don't even want to think about him anymore. I wish I would get a permanent case of amnesia.


----------



## sparkyjim

Troubledlinda said:


> 3Xnocharm said:
> 
> 
> 
> He once told me that saying sorry was a sign of weakness...
> 
> 
> 
> Continually saying sorry is a sign of weakness...
> 
> BUT apologizing for hurting someone is a sign of strength. It is a sign that you have empathy and compassion and that you realize your actions have consequences, and that you might sometimes hurt someone.
> 
> And giving forgiveness is also a sign of strength and the whole experience can bring two people closer together.
> 
> You could find this if you were in a relationship with an emotionally healthy man...
Click to expand...


----------



## Advocado

This type of emotional abuse can affect family relationships BIG time.

TroubledLinda - Particularly if you have children, it's very hard to think of leaving in your situation. Often people who have not experienced recurring silent treatment from a partner trivialise it and make jokes saying they wished their partner would give them the silent treatment. If only they knew.... It's hard to shake off the feeling that others will think badly of you for splitting up the family. _After all, it's not like you end up in the hospital battered and bruised_ kind of attitude.

But where children are concerned, it's important to remember that they learn from what they witness growing up. We have to think about whether or not we want them to see giving a partner the silent treatment as a normal and correct way to deal with issues, and whether or not we want them to feel that putting up with silent treatment from a partner is the right and normal thing to do. 

I'm sure that a large part of the reason I put up with silent treatment for over twenty years was because this is what I saw as normal with my parents. Who knows, maybe their parents before them did that too! But it has to stop somewhere. We want our children to be happy but by inadventently "teaching" them that silent treatment is okay, we are potentionally condemning them to unhapiness in their future relationships and marriage.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> This type of emotional abuse can affect family relationships BIG time.
> 
> But where children are concerned, it's important to remember that they learn from what they witness growing up. We have to think about whether or not we want them to see giving a partner the silent treatment as a normal and correct way to deal with issues, and whether or not we want them to feel that putting up with silent treatment from a partner is the right and normal thing to do.
> 
> I'm sure that a large part of the reason I put up with silent treatment for over twenty years was because this is what I saw as normal with my parents. Who knows, maybe their parents before them did that too! But it has to stop somewhere. We want our children to be happy but by inadventently "teaching" them that silent treatment is okay, we are potentionally condemning them to unhapiness in their future relationships and marriage.


Your post makes total sense and I know it is unfair for my son to be exposed to this but what do I tell him when he asks me where is daddy is? And why we are moving and all? 

He's been gone on his trip since tuesday, sent a text to say he got there safely and not a word since then... I mean in 2 days will be one month of silent treatment/limited talk... what in the world is he thinking? I guess I could pick up the phone and call but what do you say to someone who's been ignoring for a month? This is so uncomfortable.


----------



## Troubledlinda

lynst said:


> If you can't share your feelings with him, he isn't your friend. If there is no friendship in marriage, there is no closeness. (Been livng in that for 22 years, and it never gets easier.) It will chip away at you, and you will end up angry and bitter and will despise him OR you will leave.


We are not friends, I choose the things I tell him and the things I'd rather not share with him to avoid conflict. He says I have no conversation (I guess a polite way to say I'm boring) but the thing is everytime we debate on whatever topic (even just for fun) he always wants to be right so why bother discuss anything with someone who doesnt listen to your opinions? 

Sometimes I just agree wth whatever he says just so he doesn't get upset and "punish" me with silence


----------



## Troubledlinda

He's coming back from his trip this afternoon. Feeling a knot in my stomach... Don't know how to "be" when he gets here as I was on siltent treatment when he left and other than a text saying he got there safe, haven't heard from him. 

My son is so excited though! Daddy's coming home... poor thing


----------



## trey69

After he gets in and gets settled I would tell him you need to talk with him. Tell him how you refuse to continue to live with someone who wont talk to you. I wouldn't even try to explain how its abuse to him, how its childish or anything, most people who display PA behavior are not going to listen to that anyway. Just keep it simple, and tell him you are tired of it , and that YOU are gonna make a change. Let him know that you have had enough of his behavior. Seek out a lawyer and find out what you need to do, you don't even have to tell him that just yet. 

As far as your child goes, I'm not sure of his age, but the best thing to do is, if you decide to leave, is to get him into therapy. A professional might be best to help talk with him about things. You can try to explain that sometimes things don't always work out between moms and dads, but also reassure him that he is loved by you both, and this is in no way his fault. it wont be easy, it will hard for all involved, but IMO I think it will be even more hard and more damaging if you stay.


----------



## Advocado

A few options for you to consider -

You could just appear to be content and carefree and casual, like you'd hardly noticed he'd been gone. If it were me and I knew what time he'd be arriving home I'd make sure I was out when he arrived and come home late. I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of thinking I'd been been pining for him, anxious for his return or missing him. Later I'd follow up by telling him matter of factly/in no uncertain terms that if he pulls that stunt again we are finished. However, don't say this if you don't actually mean it. (My hope is that you would mean it because to be treated like this is disprespectful, inhumane ... I could go on.)

Or, have his bags packed on the sidewalk, having changed the locks (however you need to look at the legality of doing this first I would caution). 

Yet another alternative - take a trip away yourself, leaving him a note on the kitchen table. It would be good to give yourself some time away in a different environment to think things through. 

Down the line, if you do decide to split, you tell your son that both you and Daddy love him and will continue to love him but that you couldn't live together anymore as you were so very unhappy together, and it isn't his fault and everything will work out fine.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this chit. Be strong.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Troubledlinda said:


> He's coming back from his trip this afternoon. Feeling a knot in my stomach... Don't know how to "be" when he gets here as I was on siltent treatment when he left and other than a text saying he got there safe, haven't heard from him.
> 
> My son is so excited though! Daddy's coming home... poor thing


Haven't read everything, but I think you need to put your thoughts and feelings in perspective.
You can no longer afford to see yourself as the victim in this situation.
It's time to change that type of dynamic.

I think you owe it to your son.


----------



## turnera

Children should not be brought up in such a situation. You're doing them more harm by staying than by leaving. You're teaching THEM to be like HIM.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> We are not friends, I choose the things I tell him and the things I'd rather not share with him to avoid conflict. He says I have no conversation (I guess a polite way to say I'm boring) but the thing is everytime we debate on whatever topic (even just for fun) he always wants to be right so why bother discuss anything with someone who doesnt listen to your opinions?
> 
> Sometimes I just agree wth whatever he says just so he doesn't get upset and "punish" me with silence


 This is abuse. He is abusing you. You need to get help.


----------



## Troubledlinda

This all sucks... I'm so scared of both staying with him and leaving him... I know it sounds silly but that's just how I feel right now. 

If we do go our separate ways, my wish is that we stay on good terms for our son but with the behavior he has shown me, I doubt that he will want to stay "friends" which makes me sad... not "friends" for my sake but for our son so he feels like dad is around as much as mom is...


----------



## Troubledlinda

So he just arrived home. rang the door bell, as I opened the door, he just said HELLO and walked in, told our son that he missed him and both went to my son's room to play... 

I feel like crying but I know I have to be strong and not show him that his behavior is making me miserable! The weekend is gonna be long!


----------



## turnera

Why does he need to ring the doorbell at his own house?


----------



## DesertRat1978

Reading this thread has been very thought provoking. I am guilty of giving my wife the silent treatment. I do not yell or scream when I am upset with her. I just shut down and ignore her. It usually only lasts a day or so. Our spats are somewhat rare but still I think it would be worth exploring a change in my ways.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Why does he need to ring the doorbell at his own house?


He seems to have misplaced his keys and so everytime he comes home he has to ring the bell... which makes me think that I should have him make a copy.


----------



## CallaLily

I'm sorry you"re going through this, I'm sure it's tough! When you talk with him make sure you tell him it's obvious
he isn't interested in staying married and changing his ways for the sake of his marriage/family. Tell him since he isn't 
willing to work on his passive/ aggressive disrespectful behavior you feel it's best to no longer have your son exposed to
the hurt. I know many people who split and are still civil towards one another for the sake of their children. Hopefully he will 
at least be a decent father and act like he has some sense if you all do split.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Troubledlinda

tyler1978 said:


> Reading this thread has been very thought provoking. I am guilty of giving my wife the silent treatment. I do not yell or scream when I am upset with her. I just shut down and ignore her. It usually only lasts a day or so. Our spats are somewhat rare but still I think it would be worth exploring a change in my ways.


Hello Tyler1978

I'm glad you got to read the thread and see your wrong. I don't know if your wife has ever told you how it makes her feel but I promise you that being on the receiving end is the worst feeling in the world. It makes you feel like you don't exist, that you don't deserve to be aknowledged, that you don't count, you're invisible. It makes the victilm afraid to ever speak her mind to avoir being "punished", it makes you scared and insecure all the time because you never know what you might have said or done to get "punished"... 

I mean my H has been given me the silent treatment for a month just because I contradicted him while picking up a pair of shoes for our son, while we were on holidays. We didnt even fight or raise our voice, I just gave my opinion. He wanted a certain size (which was just the right size) and I wanted to get one size bigger so that he could wear it longer and have the shoes for when school started (he is 3 and grows so fast). To make him happy, I agreed to take the size he wanted but when we came out of the store, I could see he was not happy with me. (needless to say that the shoes don't even fit anymore)

If you love your wife, don't do it. Rather speak your mind, even if it gets loud but don't withdraw from her! It is horribly painfulI wish my H would realize that.


----------



## Troubledlinda

CallaLily said:


> I'm sorry you"re going through this, I'm sure it's tough! When you talk with him make sure you tell him it's obvious
> he isn't interested in staying married and changing his ways for the sake of his marriage/family. Tell him since he isn't
> willing to work on his passive/ aggressive disrespectful behavior you feel it's best to no longer have your son exposed to
> the hurt. I know many people who split and are still civil towards one another for the sake of their children. Hopefully he will
> at least be a decent father and act like he has some sense if you all do split.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wish, if we do end up separating, is that we stay civil towards each other so that my son can have both his parents around and available... but I doubt he would see things this way. I mean, while married, he can go for days without asking about his son so would he really be concerned if we weren't together?


----------



## turnera

To me, him ringing the doorbell is just one more way of exerting power and control over you. Each time you have to open the door, you are at his mercy of what kind of mood he decides to 'bestow' upon you. 

It's a power trip. 

IIWY, from now on, I'd inform him that the door will remain unlocked until he gets new keys and he can let himself in.


----------



## trey69

You shouldn't have to unlock the door. If he has misplaced his keys that's his problem. He can stay locked out until
he gets his keys or a spare. IMO this goes beyond the PA/ Silent treatment behavior. He seems like a man who has 
checked out of the marriage. At least checked out from helping to repair it, because he sure is putting a lot if time and energy
into making sure he stays silent. He also reminds me of a man who may have someone on the side. I'm not saying for sure
he does, but Perhaps his "unsilent treatment" is going somewhere
else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EnjoliWoman

He seems to derive pleasure out of making you hop, be on edge and cater to his whims. He actually sounds very dangerous. 

I was thinking what a wonderful time to not let him in and tell him to find another place to live. I mean, he doesn't have a key to the house and he has clothes and toiletries with him.

I have to say it would have been fantastic to open the door and say "Oh. It's you." and shut it.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> So he just arrived home. rang the door bell, as I opened the door, he just said HELLO and walked in, told our son that he missed him and both went to my son's room to play...
> 
> I feel like crying but I know I have to be strong and not show him that his behavior is making me miserable! The weekend is gonna be long!


He can see that this really bothers you, so you need to put on a game face. Its time for you to detach from his controlling and childish antics. Never let them see you sweat. If he thinks it isnt bothering you, he is going to stop. (for now, any way...)


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> This all sucks... I'm so scared of both staying with him and leaving him... I know it sounds silly but that's just how I feel right now.
> 
> If we do go our separate ways, my wish is that we stay on good terms for our son but with the behavior he has shown me, I doubt that he will want to stay "friends"


Yes, if you separated, he might not ever be friends with you again. 

Oh wait, how would that be any different from now?



Troubledlinda said:


> I mean my H has been given me the silent treatment for a month just because I contradicted him while picking up a pair of shoes for our son, while we were on holidays. We didnt even fight or raise our voice, I just gave my opinion. He wanted a certain size (which was just the right size) and I wanted to get one size bigger so that he could wear it longer and have the shoes for when school started (he is 3 and grows so fast). To make him happy, I agreed to take the size he wanted but when we came out of the store, I could see he was not happy with me.


Good grief!! If that is an accurate account of what happened, then either you are married to a complete sociopath, or he's doing all this on purpose because he wants a divorce. It's possible he wants to divorce you but he's worried about outside appearances so he doesn't want to look like the "bad guy" who left his wife. So his strategy is to keep making you miserable until you initiate the divorce instead. 


Here's one way to test that. Simply ask him: "_do you want a divorce?"_ and suggest marriage counseling.

If he really doesn't want one, then he'll very quickly say "no", and he will agree to at least try marriage counseling. 

If he secretly wants a divorce, then it's likely he will either ignore the question, take a very long time to answer it, or come back with a vague answer or question, like "_that depends on you_", or "_what do you think?_" or "_what do you want_?" He'll also refuse to go to MC.

I don't necessarily recommend divorce, but I recommend MC very strongly, and if he refuses to go, I think you should move out for awhile, and give him your own silent treatment. Take things one step at a time, but take some progressive steps so you can exit from this trap that you're in.


----------



## turnera

Hey, now that he's home, you should grab your purse and keys and say 'thanks for watching our son, I've got errands to run. Be back later!' and leave for a few hours.

And leave before he can say anything.


----------



## frusdil

Troubledlinda said:


> Hello Frusdil,
> 
> Thank you for your response!
> Just quick questions regarding your situation, if you don't mind.
> 1) How long did you stay with your ex H and how long did the silent treatment last before you decided to leave?
> 
> 2) Do you have children with him?
> 
> Thank you


Linda - I'm sorry, I just saw this post.

I was with my ex for 8 years. The first few months were wonderful. I had no idea what I was getting into when I met him. Everything was my fault, he never took responsibility for anything. I'd get the silent treatment over just about anything and it would sometimes last for weeks. 

I just couldn't take it anymore. I turned myself inside out, upside down trying to change myself so that I'd please him. 
Of course, nothing worked, because the problem wasn't me, it was him. I'm no saint, and I'm certainly not perfect but I loved him and my heart was always in the right place.

Thank god we had no children together. I still would have left though, I really believe that. In the end, I crawled away completely broken. It took years for me to recover from that relationship.

One day, when I'd "done my work" so to speak, and had healed completely and moved on, happily single but open to a new relationship I met my wonderful husband. He knows my history and that there are things that I need him to be sensitive to. I was very clear with him from early on what I'd been through and what I wouldn't tolerate and that I'd walk away without hesitation if I got the slightest hint of anything like I'd been through before.

To this day I never have. He's not perfect, nor am I but he's my knight in shining armour. He brought me back to life 

You can have that too Linda but first you've got to get out of this marriage. Life is too short to be this miserable xo


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> To me, him ringing the doorbell is just one more way of exerting power and control over you. Each time you have to open the door, you are at his mercy of what kind of mood he decides to 'bestow' upon you.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> You are right about that. I could be in a good mood and as soon as I open the door and see him looking down (so not to look at me) and mumble a "hello" it changes my mood and makes me feel like ****.


----------



## EleGirl

Actions speak volumns.

Who rings the door bell? Visitors, people who do not live in the house. My take on it is that he's sending you a message without words.. he does not live there (either physically or emotionally).


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Yes, if you separated, he might not ever be friends with you again.
> 
> Oh wait, how would that be any different from now?
> 
> It's possible he wants to divorce you but he's worried about outside appearances so he doesn't want to look like the "bad guy" who left his wife. So his strategy is to keep making you miserable until you initiate the divorce instead.


Yes I thought about that too, that he doesn't want to be the bad guy so he's pushing me till I eventually leave on my own. I even thought that maybe he didn't really want to marry me in the first place but did it for whatever reason other than love. 

I have asked him before why he married me but I don't really remember his answer, I don't even thing he answered. Don't remember. 

Once during an episode of ST I asked him if he still wanted to be with me but he answered with a question back at me: 3what do yo want?" and then proceeded to say that we were living in his appartment and in case of separation, I would be the one leaving. 

I mentionned in an earlier post that I quit my job about 6 months ago to be a stay at home mom, his request of 2 years that I finally gave in to, thinking it would help make our marriage better... oh well. So I have no job... Leaving him would mean going back to my parents for a while.


----------



## Chana

I joined this forum to reply to your thread. I want to reiterate what previous posters have said about the impact this could have on your child.

My father was very much like you describe your husband. It was nothing for him to give the silent treatment to my mother (well, us all, really) for weeks and sometimes months at a time (links previous posters have provided describe him so well, even now). 

I don't want this to sound like I'm avoiding responsibility for my own behaviour but I really wish I hadn't grown up in that environment because it continues to have an impact on my relationships today (I feel so blessed that my husband is enormously patient and loving and willing to work through issues together, but stone-walling/silent treatment was a big problem for me in the early days of our marriage.) 

I know your boy loves his Dad, and your husband loves your son - but the example of home life that he is providing is just so destructive and wrong. It's really not fair on your son. Or you. I'm so sorry you're living this


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I mentionned in an earlier post that I quit my job about 6 months ago to be a stay at home mom, his request of 2 years that I finally gave in to, thinking it would help make our marriage better... oh well. So I have no job... Leaving him would mean going back to my parents for a while.


This move was for control on his part. Leave you completely dependent on him by telling you to quit your job. He made it look like it would be a good thing. It was......for him.


----------



## CallaLily

Troubledlinda said:


> He seems to have misplaced his keys and so everytime he comes home he has to ring the bell... which makes me think that I should have him make a copy.


Thats just odd to me, he misplaces his keys every time he comes home..I'm assuming from a trip? Umm, does he ever find them? Does he say where he found them? No you shouldn't make him a copy. He should keep up with his keys or he can go get himself another copy. I wouldn't keep unlocking the door for him either.


----------



## SaltInWound

CallaLily said:


> Thats just odd to me, he misplaces his keys every time he comes home..I'm assuming from a trip? Umm, does he ever find them? Does he say where he found them? No you shouldn't make him a copy. He should keep up with his keys or he can go get himself another copy. I wouldn't keep unlocking the door for him either.


Don't most people have one set of keys that consist of house, car, etc? If he misplaced his keys and can't get in the house, how is he starting his car to get to the house?


----------



## lenzi

He didn't "lose his key", it's on the same ring as the car key he just took out of the ignition, don't you realize that???

He's manipulating you and you are responding like a puppet attached by strings. Start by disconnecting the doorbell.


----------



## turnera

In the book Why Does He Do That, Inside The Minds Of Angry and Controlling Men, it tells you these men will isolate you from your family and friends, they will get you to quit your job so you lose any other friends and so you can't afford to leave them, they will keep doing things to make you wonder why they are mad at you so you don't have time to stop and think about why YOU should be mad at THEM.


----------



## CallaLily

To the OP, I have been thinking of you since you stated your husband came home yesterday and I was wondering how things were going. Hope you come back to up date us.


----------



## Troubledlinda

You guys make me laugh about this key business... It's just a small point, it's not the main issue. The thing is we have 3 sets of keys for the house (we have a door like hotel rooms, once you're out, you're locked out and need the key to get in). 

I have onse set, my parents have one set (in case we go awya, they have to come in and check on the house blah blah blah) and then H has his set, which he has lost a few months ago (while we were on good terms) so I basically always unlock the door for him on good or bad days. so I don't really think that this is a big deal, what I don't like is the attitude he has when I open up the door.... he looks at the floor so not to look at me... and just mumbles a hello... 

So, I will let him know that I will no longer open the door and he needs to get himself a copy of the key. 

So he has started trying to make small talk with me today after 1 month of silence. He was in town for a meeting and called me to ask if I needed anyting cause he was getting ready to come home.... I almost fell of my chair. 

I did somthing a bit childish but it's ok cause it made me feel good... When he got home, I had suitcases in my bedroom and had clothes on the bed, drawers beig emptied and cleaned (wanted to make him think that I was packing my stuff). I was just cleaning out my closets and packing away old clothes  LOL (sorry, I know it was silly but it made feel good, made me feel like I had regained control)

He went out in the afternoon and didn't say where he was going, I just heard the car as he was driving off... two minutes later he calls me to tell me where he's going?!!?!!

Let's see what happens next


----------



## Troubledlinda

CallaLily said:


> To the OP, I have been thinking of you since you stated your husband came home yesterday and I was wondering how things were going. Hope you come back to up date us.


What is the OP?


----------



## CallaLily

Troubledlinda said:


> What is the OP?


OP= Original Poster


----------



## Jamison

While he is out, get up some self confidence and have a talk with him when he gets back. Its time for the talk. The talk of how you're not in favor of the PA behavior and things need to change. I'm sure its possible he will reassure you how he will change or how sorry he is and may start to talk to you more today, just know his behavior will likely go back to the way it was. He will once again shut down and give you the silent treatment at some point. Just because he may be talking some now doesn't mean a hill of beans at this point. I would also tell him you are looking for a job. Time to establish some independence. Don't just tell him you are looking, really look for a job.

Just out of curiosity, and you may have already said and I missed it, but how are things in the bedroom?


----------



## SaltInWound

turnera said:


> In the book Why Does He Do That, Inside The Minds Of Angry and Controlling Men, it tells you these men will isolate you from your family and friends, they will get you to quit your job so you lose any other friends and so you can't afford to leave them, they will keep doing things to make you wonder why they are mad at you so you don't have time to stop and think about why YOU should be mad at THEM.


Absolutely true in my situation.


----------



## turnera

See? You showed some backbone, and he got scared, and gave you nice. Just shows that you need to stop walking on eggshells. Do some reading on boundaries and consequences.


----------



## lenzi

Troubledlinda said:


> So he has started trying to make small talk with me today after 1 month of silence.
> 
> I did somthing a bit childish but it's ok cause it made me feel good... When he got home, I had suitcases in my bedroom and had clothes on the bed, drawers beig emptied and cleaned (wanted to make him think that I was packing my stuff).


He doesn't talk to you for months at a time, you pretend to be packing your bags and moving out. 

Nice to see a relationship with such open honesty and communication. 



Troubledlinda said:


> Let's see what happens next


With all the childish behavior exhibited on both your parts, might I suggest a game of "Twister"? 

Winner take all.


----------



## Jamison

Troubledlinda said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> He went out in the afternoon and didn't say where he was going, I just heard the car as he was driving off... two minutes later he calls me to tell me where he's going?!!?!!
> 
> Let's see what happens next


So where did he say he was going? He sure seems to have to go a lot. Meetings, out of town etc. If I had a job where I had to go out of town right often I wouldn't want to feel I had to go other places once I got home too. Its odd to me to he tells you where he is going once he is already gone. He seems to tell you things after the fact. 

As far as what happens next, my guess is more of the same thats been going on.


----------



## Troubledlinda

lenzi said:


> He doesn't talk to you for months at a time, you pretend to be packing your bags and moving out.
> 
> Nice to see a relationship with such open honesty and communication.
> 
> 
> 
> With all the childish behavior exhibited on both your parts, might I suggest a game of "Twister"?
> 
> Winner take all.


Hello Lenzi, 

You know you don't need to be mean and nasty in your comments... If people come here, myself anyways, is because I need support and people who can help me understand and relate to what's happening in my world. 

You don't the mental/emotional state of people (still talking for myself) that write here so you don't need to make fun of the reactions we have! Maybe you have all the confidence in the world to speak up to your spouse about the things that bother you, maybe you are not in an abusive marrige, great for you. So please if you read my posts to make fun, please don't anymore. 

Thank you


----------



## turnera

lenzi is trying to point out that your act of pretending to be packing isn't the best way to heal your marriage, if you're wanting to fix it. Better to just be honest. Of course, once you've been beaten down like you have, it's scary to just be honest. Or you feel like it doesn't do any good. I often recommend to REALLY move out, when you have a partner who refuses to 'participate' in the marriage. That way, they have impetus to change and, if they don't, you'll know you aren't really that important to them. Better to know now than 20 years later.


----------



## lenzi

Troubledlinda said:


> Hello Lenzi,
> 
> You know you don't need to be mean and nasty in your comments... If people come here, myself anyways, is because I need support and people who can help me understand and relate to what's happening in my world.


I'm sorry if you took my comments to be mean and nasty.

I just tried to put a humorous spin on things to make a point.

Truth is the two of you are playing silly pointless games with each other, there is no resolution here just because he seems to respond when he thinks you're leaving him.

You guys need some serious help, and I am not talking about with packing up all the clothing or getting keys copied.


----------



## Troubledlinda

lenzi said:


> I'm sorry if you took my comments to be mean and nasty.
> 
> I just tried to put a humorous spin on things to make a point.
> 
> Truth is the two of you are playing silly pointless games with each other, there is no resolution here just because he seems to respond when he thinks you're leaving him.
> 
> You guys need some serious help, and I am not talking about with packing up all the clothing or getting keys copied.


Lenzi 

Sorry if I over-reacted and got all sensitive... just feeling insecure I guess. 

Yes we do have serious problems and to be honest I don't know if we will be able to solve them, they are overwhelming and I feel like we've gone so far apart that coming back to a healthy point will take a lot of work and effort, which I don't know if he is willing to do. (from past experience, he's always said that he doesn't have any problems and if only I could fix my issues, we could have a great marriage)

Where do I start with all this, lack of intimacy, no sex, no affection, no loving words, no trust, no friendship, walking on eggshells, silent treatments, lack of respect.... pffff I don't mean to be negative but that's a lot of stuff to work on and I will never fix it alone, nor should I have to as it took the 2 of us to get to this point....


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> In the book Why Does He Do That, Inside The Minds Of Angry and Controlling Men, it tells you these men will isolate you from your family and friends, they will get you to quit your job so you lose any other friends and so you can't afford to leave them, they will keep doing things to make you wonder why they are mad at you so you don't have time to stop and think about why YOU should be mad at THEM.


He hasn't tried to isolate me from my family and in regards to friends, he says I should go out with them more often and organize play dates for our kids and stuff like that but as for the job situation, it took me 2 years to finally give into quiting and now I have all this free time to think about this mess. :scratchhead:


----------



## CallaLily

It might be a good idea to start looking for a job. It's part of how you can have some control over
your life again. Just wondering, but given the things you listed that's going on, have you ever thought
if maybe he was having an affair?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> ...... Leaving him would mean going back to my parents for a while.


How about getting those suitcases out again and actually going to stay with your parents - at least for a week or two. It will give you (and him) space to think about the relationship and what you want and need for the future. 

And don't be afraid to let people know how he treats you and how it makes you feel. Stop playing along with his acting like everything's fine in front of others. Let you parents, and others know what's happening and allow them to support you. Think yourself lucky you actually have somewhere to go. Plus, maybe if you speak out there is someone whom he respects who can talk to him and make him see sense. 

My biggest fear for you is that now he speaking to you (of sorts) it's easy to let things slide/wishful thinking that things will be okay because you don't wish to contemplate change. This is understandable, but not necessarily the healthy thing to do for the long term. 

So just think, by staying at your parents for a couple of weeks minimum you get to stop walking on eggshells, stop dreading him coming home and ringing the bell ... and the rest.


----------



## 6301

I would call it emotional abuse an I'm not the only one saying that. I agree with Advocado. I would pack and leave and if he calls, I would let him stew for a while. And while your gone, look for a job to keep your mind occupied. It might do you a world of good and I think you deserve it.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I got confused. He's still ignoring me... I have to talk to him, we can't continue this way! It is ridiculous. pfff


----------



## EnjoliWoman

No, don't bother talking to him. If you say anything, IMO it should be "You obviously don't have the communication skills necessary to resolve any conflicts since silence is your solution. IF you do want to talk, I can be reached on my cell. Goodbye." And leave.

I was married to a man who told me I was the problem. I didn't think I was. I was very confused because he said one thing but in my mind it didn't seem right. After I left (which was VERY scary) I finally found out WHY by way of a professional diagnosis. That diagnosis gave me much peace because I finally understood what was wrong with him and I never again felt I was the one who was messed up.

Go to you family, get a job, get back on your feet. TRUST US. So many of us have been there. It's scary and it's hard but you will feel SO peaceful without him. Your confidence WILL come back. It takes time. You will look back on this and wonder why you waited so long.


----------



## turnera

It's going to have to be YOU who changes here, linda. This is all he knows. It's how he controls things, controls you. Until YOU are ready to stop this crazy dance, he'll continue to guilt you and silent you into being subservient and never asking for more.

If he comes home today and is still not talking, pack an overnight bag and say 'hey, since you're not talking to me tonight, I'm gonna head over to Mom's so I can at least have a conversation with someone. Let me know if you decide you want to talk. I'll probably be back tomorrow.'

And rinse and repeat every.single.day, until he finally understands what he'll be getting from you from now on.


----------



## Wise Fairy

To all the people that question the silent treatment and how it affects you. I just came out of a 4 year relationship where he actually ended it over something so trivial but realized that he actually did me a huge favor I am happy that I did not marry this guy not that he asked because he couldn't love and love is unconditional. So if you have any questions just read what I tell you from my heart. I was with a great Narcissist and every day I pray that I will heal from his emotional abuse. 

Ode to the Narcissist just know that: 

That I won’t be there for you emotionally, physically or mentally
That I will charm you at the beginning because I can pretend to be a good guy 
That you will never reach my heart 
That I will never say I love you unless you say it first and then I won’t mean it 
That I won’t do anything that you like to do because it’s all about me
That I won’t understand you or give you what you need 
That you will never ask me what I want 
That I will ignore you when we have a disagreement and will not communicate 
That what you think or feel is not important to me 
That when your father dies I will not be there to support you, you’re on your own
That you will not be able to count on me when times are tough 
That if you don’t like what I do then I will walk away take it or leave it don’t discuss it
That I will obsess over my things and objects 
That I will invite you to mine but the next day I will be happy when you leave 
That I won’t forgive you if you do something that I disagree with 
That I won’t accept or appreciate your food because my mother’s is better and you don’t make it the same way
That I will never communicate with you because you are not worthy of my effort or time 
That I won’t listen or hear your problems because they are no concern of mine 
That I won’t celebrate your birthday only mine and my families are important
That I won’t see your way of doing things because mine is the right way and no other way 
That I won’t share because I just haven’t had to do it with anyone I don’t need anyone 
That I won’t tell you how attractive or beautiful you are because I don’t compliment 
That I will order in a restaurant first because you will always be second or last 
That I will hold grudges if you do anything to offend me and will not talk to you for days or weeks 
That I will alienate you from my family, friends or people because I don’t want you to be social 
That I will never trust you no matter how hard you try to make me see I can 
That I won’t ever fully accept you in my life because keeping you at a distance makes me happy 
That I won’t recognize what you have done for me and will only see what I did for you
That I won’t let you into my heart because my armor is thick and I am strong 
That I will only use you for my own self gain such as self gratification for the moment 
That I will never show you love because I can keep you on your toes and guessing 
That I will take you of the shelf and play with you when I feel bored 
That I will turn things around even when it’s my fault and turn other people against you
That I will never say sorry for my actions even when I am wrong 
That I will be little anyone around me because they don’t know what they are doing 
That I will take advantage of people even though they don’t know I am doing it for self gain
That I will pretend to be a man of God because it makes me look good in their eyes 
That I will know I am right all of the time and will not compromise 
That I will never accept you for who you are because you are not perfect and you need to be 
That I will teach you things and if you don’t follow through I will blame you 
That I will never try to understand you as a person and love you for who you are 
That when I do things with you, you had better know that you are lucky you are in my presence
That I will taunt you after the fact and say that I wanted you to move in with me but not really 
That when I abuse you emotionally I will be happy that I have hurt you because you deserve it
That you will be thankful when I do deeds for you that is how I show love but not really 
That showing deeds allows me to keep a distance from you to show any true feelings 
That giving you no real love will make you feel worthless in the end when I decide to dump you
For someone else that doesn’t know me and I can start all over again with the charade….. 

There is no need to question yourself any further it is what it is.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Troubledlinda said:


> I got confused. He's still ignoring me... I have to talk to him, we can't continue this way! It is ridiculous. pfff


Tell him you can no longer live like this and you want a divorce.
Maybe then he'll " break his silence."


----------



## Troubledlinda

Caribbean Man said:


> Tell him you can no longer live like this and you want a divorce.
> Maybe then he'll " break his silence."


Hello Caribbean Man, 

I'm gonna sound really silly but I have to say that I feel afraid of talking to him. I dread his mean look, his angry tone of voice, him making the silence last longer... I feel sad and ashamed of even writing thi but how can I be afraid of my man, my husband? The man who is supposed to love me and be there for me? Why?

When he comes home, I want to be normal and greet him in a normal way but he get shome with such a face and sits with his back to me and ignores me... it makes me want to leave the room so I chill in our bedroom so not to get hurt by his gestures... it is so twisted, sometimes I feel like I am the one giving him the silent treatment but removing myself... I really feel like I'm going crazy. Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say?


----------



## Troubledlinda

I know most people on thie thread have advised that I separate, divorce and so forth, that he will never change but God it is so hard... it is really scary! I really feel paralyzed by fear... Anybody been done there and done it despite of their fear?


----------



## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> I know most people on thie thread have advised that I separate, divorce and so forth, that he will never change but God it is so hard... it is really scary! I really feel paralyzed by fear... Anybody been done there and done it despite of their fear?


Yes, I did. For me the prospect of staying and spending the rest of my life with someone like that was scarier than leaving. It was like jumping off the edge of a cliff and losing everything I had (including a roof over my head) - but, believe me, I gained so much more.

_"Come to the edge, he said.
We are afraid, they said.
Come to the edge, he said.
They came to the edge,
He pushed them and they flew.
Come to the edge, Life said.
They said: We are afraid.
Come to the edge, Life said.
They came. It pushed them...
And they flew.” 

(Guilliame Apollinaire)_


----------



## Advocado

How do you feel about going to stay with your parents for a while? Heaven knows you need a break. What you say about being "afraid" is heartbreaking. *Please please please - do be good and kind to yourself.*


----------



## turnera

You feel afraid because he has broken your spirit. You need to fill your days with GOOD people who lift you UP, not tear you down. Once you start doing that more, you'll start to see your worth again. Go visit your folks. Have lunch with your friends. Take a class at your community college. Get regular therapy.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> I know most people on thie thread have advised that I separate, divorce and so forth, that he will never change but God it is so hard... it is really scary! I really feel paralyzed by fear... Anybody been done there and done it despite of their fear?


YES. I HAVE. I have actually done this TWICE. This is no way to live. The idea of staying was much more miserable than the thought of getting out. I had become an empty shell of myself. I have not had one single day's regret that I ended either one of those marriages. 

ARE YOU HAPPY? DOES HE CARE WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE HAPPY?


----------



## LonelyinLove

Troubledlinda said:


> I'm gonna sound really silly but I have to say that I feel afraid of talking to him. I dread his mean look, his angry tone of voice, him making the silence last longer... I feel sad and ashamed of even writing thi but how can I be afraid of my man


That's how he controls you.

He gives you a mean look....give the big baby a mean look back..then tell him his face will freeze like that...LOL.

He uses an angry tone....make fun of it.....

He acts like a baby, he gets treated like one.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Troubledlinda said:


> Hello Caribbean Man,
> 
> I'm gonna sound really silly but I have to say that I feel afraid of talking to him. I dread his mean look, his angry tone of voice, him making the silence last longer... I feel sad and ashamed of even writing thi but how can I be afraid of my man, my husband? The man who is supposed to love me and be there for me? Why?
> 
> When he comes home, I want to be normal and greet him in a normal way but he get shome with such a face and sits with his back to me and ignores me... it makes me want to leave the room so I chill in our bedroom so not to get hurt by his gestures... it is so twisted, sometimes I feel like I am the one giving him the silent treatment but removing myself... I really feel like I'm going crazy. Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say?



I think I can understand how you feel.

But the truth is that many women on this website have passed through what you are going through and sometimes even worse.

Here's a thread where some of them stated their experiences.
Maybe you can have a read .

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...64173-why-do-some-women-stay-abusive-men.html

This type of dynamic in your marriage is not unique , and although you may feel unable to fight , and afraid of him, you must think of your son . This environment has poisoned your thinking to an extent , and very soon your husband's poison would infect him.
You feel helpless because your husband wants to make you feel that way. His emotional abuse is conditioning you to continue accepting that type of treatment and worse WILL come.
He gets a high off of it and sooner or later that would not be enough.
He will need to escalate things in order to get his high, and that's where some physical abuse might come in.
His emotional abuse is conditioning your mind to accept more abuse later on.
I will NOT get better on it own, only you can put a stop to it.
Start thinking in terms of an exit strategy.
Get yourself in order and think of yourself , for yourself and for your son.


----------



## Cosmos

LonelyinLove said:


> That's how he controls you.
> 
> He gives you a mean look....give the big baby a mean look back..then tell him his face will freeze like that...LOL.
> 
> He uses an angry tone....make fun of it.....
> 
> He acts like a baby, he gets treated like one.



I agree that one has to stand one's ground with an abuser and try to remain strong, but the trouble is that they then go foraging for other ways to manipulate. They can become as spiteful as a child or as cunning as a fox, depending on their level of intelligence. 

The most dangerous time with an abuser is when they think they've lost control of the 'game.' Their very 'sanity' depends on control, and once it's removed one tends to see the true extent of their sick and damaged minds.


----------



## turnera

LonelyinLove said:


> That's how he controls you.
> 
> He gives you a mean look....give the big baby a mean look back..then tell him his face will freeze like that...LOL.
> 
> He uses an angry tone....make fun of it.....
> 
> He acts like a baby, he gets treated like one.


My DH does this, even if he doesn't realize it. I am SO afraid of getting one of those looks that I've bent over backwards for 30 years to NOT cause him to give me one of those looks. And I am miserable. Because I've been too afraid to leave. Don't be like me. Don't waste your life in an unhappy situation. You only get one life. IF you leave, he can then choose to get help, or to lose you.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Caribbean Man said:


> I think I can understand how you feel.
> 
> But the truth is that many women on this website have passed through what you are going through and sometimes even worse.
> 
> Here's a thread where some of them stated their experiences.
> Maybe you can have a read .
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...64173-why-do-some-women-stay-abusive-men.html
> 
> This type of dynamic in your marriage is not unique , and although you may feel unable to fight , and afraid of him, you must think of your son . This environment has poisoned your thinking to an extent , and very soon your husband's poison would infect him.
> You feel helpless because your husband wants to make you feel that way. His emotional abuse is conditioning you to continue accepting that type of treatment and worse WILL come.
> He gets a high off of it and sooner or later that would not be enough.
> He will need to escalate things in order to get his high, and that's where some physical abuse might come in.
> His emotional abuse is conditioning your mind to accept more abuse later on.
> I will NOT get better on it own, only you can put a stop to it.
> Start thinking in terms of an exit strategy.
> Get yourself in order and think of yourself , for yourself and for your son.


Thank you for the thread, I read it and find it quite interesting. I know my reasons for staying, although my thinking light be wrong, this is just a few of them: 

1) Feelings of guilt towards my son, thinking that he would be happier with mom and dad around like a "normal" family. What do I tell him? Will he forgive me? The "abuse is aimed at me, not at him". He looooves his dad (what child doesn't). 
2) Afraid of making a mistake - finding it hard to accept the situation as abusive - thinking that maybe I'm exaggerating (this is crazy) and thinking that maybe if I change, the situation will change (that's what I've been told for the past 4 years)
3) Afraid of the unknown: what do I do next? Will he be available for our son once we spilt? Will I find love again? Will I be able to be both mom and dad for my son? 
4) Being a Christian, I know that God hates divorce... Will I be punished for it... 

All these run trhough my head day and night... it is absolute torture.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Troubledlinda said:


> I know most people on thie thread have advised that I separate, divorce and so forth, that he will never change but God it is so hard... it is really scary! I really feel paralyzed by fear... Anybody been done there and done it despite of their fear?


Yes, I did. And my ex was also physically abusive although he kept it to areas that didn't show - God forbid anyone think less of him should there be physical proof so he would hit my head with his knuckles causing goose-eggs on my head hidden by my hair, he would shove me often and grab my neck hard enough to make me terrified but not hard enough to leave a bruise and toward the end he spit on me once. 

I was terrified. I planned for a month to leave him. One morning I was going to be late for work and he wanted sex again and I said no. He said he was a handsome guy and he'd get it from someone else if not from me. I'd had enough. I said "OK, go ahead and screw someone else. I'm leaving - I want a divorce." and I left for work. He begged and pleaded that evening and cried crocodile tears but I'd seen them before. But the day came when I got home and he was running late and hadn't left yet... with our daughter. I saw a trash bag full of her clothing in the back of his SUV so I asked her if she wanted McDonald's for dinner, grabbed the clothing and left. 

Here I had a bag packed and secretly stashed but it was upstairs and I didn't dare go up there. I left with nothing. Of course I went back later with a deputy sheriff to get my personal belongings once I had a restraining order; and later with movers to get half of the furniture once I'd secured a home.

It is VERY scary. I went to a battered women's shelter for a month - free counseling as many times as I needed to with someone on staff. It was so helpful! And each day I was away I felt more and more in control of my life and future. I was sick with fear and then I learned it was fear of the uncertainty more than fear of him. So I worked on the things I was unsure about - job, home, daycare and him coming to take daughter from daycare (gave everyone copies of restraining order). 

The more in control I felt of my life the more confident I got. Each day I was stronger and more self-assured. And each day I wondered why I hadn't done this earlier.

All of us who have been there know what it's like and we don't want you to look back two, three, five or 10 years from now and just be leaving and think "Wow I wish I'd done this sooner - I don't know what I was afraid of". Because when I left I wish I'd left a good 7 years sooner.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> 2) Afraid of making a mistake - finding it hard to accept the situation as abusive - thinking that maybe I'm exaggerating (this is crazy) and thinking that maybe if I change, the situation will change (that's what I've been told for the past 4 years)


Have you read Why Does He Do That? yet?


----------



## Jellybeans

Eh. I feel for you. This guy sounds exactly like my ex. So much. Even with the door thing. But mine would POUND on the door (if misplaced his keys) and then Id greet him so happily only to be met with a brush off sometimes and a "hi" mumble and he'd keep it moving. 

Uh, no thanks.

That was one of the reasons I stopped wanting to come home after work Anywhere but home was better.

That is SAD SAD SAD.

He would give me death stares, too. That would unnerve me. Like full-on hatred in his eyes. That isn't love.

I remember my beautiful home, how much I didn't want to leave. We had such a beautiful marriage and home, on the outside. But inside it was another story. 

I always remember him telling me "But you won't have nice things" if I left him............ because the THINGS were the most important thing to him.

I left. I never looked back.

It does NOT get better over time. It usually gets much worse.

The fact that you are raising a child in that environment is no good. Think of the damage it is causing your child. Totally unhealthy home environment.


----------



## turnera

There's a poster over at MB whose husband, at first glance, didn't seem to be abusive - just cheating. But the more she stood up to him, the nastier he got. She didn't believe us when we told her he seemed abusive - because she had been gaslighting herself all these years. Oh, it's not really that bad. ALL men get angry. I pushed him too hard, that's why he yelled. I've been a bad wife. On and on. 

She now sees him for what he is - a user and an abuser who's far uglier than she ever even imagined. Once she stopped playing his game. Like you, she's still young, 30s or 40s, and now is able to make a great life for herself and her 3 kids, without the undercurrent of pain and suffering masking everything they did. 

Kids want their dad. But living with a dad who teaches them to be dysfunctional - we grow up to be just like our parents without realizing it - and mean and hurtful is not what you should want for your son.

Remember this: If you DO move out, there's nothing stopping your H from finally going to therapy and getting help for his dysfunction and thus becoming the husband and father you guys need. 

But it will never happen if you stay in the status quo.


----------



## Caribbean Man

turnera said:


> Kids want their dad. But living with a dad who teaches them to be dysfunctional - we grow up to be just like our parents without realizing it - and mean and hurtful is not what you should want for your son.
> 
> *Remember this: If you DO move out, there's nothing stopping your H from finally going to therapy and getting help for his dysfunction and thus becoming the husband and father you guys need.
> 
> But it will never happen if you stay in the status quo.*


Yes ,yes and YES.

Moving out from the situation will present her with new challenges in the short term, but the immense benefits far outweigh these challenges all around.
It's the only way the force a change in perspective of the situation in her and ultimately , him.

She needs to stop feeling sorry for herself and think of a feasible way forward with her life.


----------



## Jellybeans

Caribbean Man said:


> She needs to stop feeling sorry for herself and think of a feasible way forward with her life.


When she's had enough/gets mad enough, she will leave.

She's not there yet.

The day I left, I somehow found superhuman strength. Nothing in the world could have kept me from leaving that day.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Troubledlinda said:


> Thank you for the thread, I read it and find it quite interesting. I know my reasons for staying, although my thinking light be wrong, this is just a few of them:
> 
> 1) Feelings of guilt towards my son, thinking that he would be happier with mom and dad around like a "normal" family. What do I tell him? Will he forgive me? The "abuse is aimed at me, not at him". He looooves his dad (what child doesn't).
> 
> *Your son is learning how to treat his future wife. For HIS HAPPINESS he must learn better communication skills than what your H is teaching him. My daughter was not physically abused either but emotionally. Any time she crossed him, he made her aware his love is conditional. Your son IS being abused and he will be proud of your strength one day when he has been visiting his Dad, crossed him and gets the silent treatment himself.*
> 
> 2) Afraid of making a mistake - finding it hard to accept the situation as abusive - thinking that maybe I'm exaggerating (this is crazy) and thinking that maybe if I change, the situation will change (that's what I've been told for the past 4 years)
> 
> *No matter how you change/what you do, how you react it won't be enough. the problem is HE won't change. Making a mistake is human. You cannot live being afraid of making mistakes. Mistakes are what help us grow as human beings.*
> 
> 3) Afraid of the unknown: what do I do next? Will he be available for our son once we split? Will I find love again? Will I be able to be both mom and dad for my son?
> 
> *The unknown is scary. This is probably your most logical fear. List them. Fear of being poor? I left a 3400 sq ft house and now live in a 1400 sq ft house and I'm SO much happier! Of being the sole provider? It's all just good motivation.  You will be surprised at how focused and resourceful you become. If you leave do NOT settle for nothing just to avoid his ire. *
> 
> 4) Being a Christian, I know that God hates divorce... Will I be punished for it...
> 
> *If you believe in God why do you think he wants you to suffer? No one LIKES divorce. A minister told me as I questioned the same thing that the vow says "let no man put asunder what God has joined together" - YOU did not rip apart what God joined together - your H did with his constant emotional abuse. God would not approve of how your husband treats you. If there is a God, I think he's more loving and forgiving than that. *
> 
> All these run through my head day and night... it is absolute torture.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Oh, and regarding "Will I find love again" - forget the "again". You've never had it. You serve a purpose in his life which is to make him feel better by making you feel small and to make him look like a good family man. He does not love you.

You will find love and think "OMG! THIS is what I was supposed to have!"


----------



## Troubledlinda

Jellybeans said:


> When she's had enough/gets mad enough, she will leave.
> 
> She's not there yet.
> 
> The day I left, I somehow found superhuman strength. Nothing in the world could have kept me from leaving that day.


Yes, despite of everything that's going on... I am not quite there yet... Have to get prepared. 
I'm sure the day I have enough, I will find the strength to leave.


----------



## Troubledlinda

EnjoliWoman said:


> Oh, and regarding "Will I find love again" - forget the "again". You've never had it. You serve a purpose in his life which is to make him feel better by making you feel small and to make him look like a good family man. He does not love you.
> 
> You will find love and think "OMG! THIS is what I was supposed to have!"


Thank you for the encouraging words.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Troubledlinda said:


> Yes, despite of everything that's going on... I am not quite there yet... Have to get prepared.
> I'm sure the day I have enough, I will find the strength to leave.


Being prepared will help a lot. Things you need to get ready are listed below. Start a box or bag with these things. Put it where your H won't find it but where you can grab it quickly if you need to leave in a hurry. Start getting all of this together bit by bit. If there are things you need to make copies of you can either take a few things when you run errands and make copies or take photos on your phone and store them on a web-based site like photobucket. 


Safety packing list

Identification for yourself and your children
Birth certificates
Social Security cards (or numbers written on paper if you can't find the cards)
Driver's license
Photo identification or passports
Welfare benefits card
Green card

Important papers
Marriage certificate
Divorce papers
Custody orders
Legal protection or restraining orders
Health insurance papers and medical cards
Medical records for all family members
Children's school records
Investment papers/records and account numbers
Work permits
Immigration papers
Rental agreement/lease or house deed
Car title, registration, and insurance information
Records of police reports you have filed or other evidence of abuse

Money and other ways to get by
Cash
Credit cards
ATM card
Checkbook and bankbook (with deposit slips)
Jewelry or small objects you can sell

Keys
House
Car
Safety deposit box or Post Office box

Ways to communicate
Phone calling card*
Cellphone*
Address book
Medications

At least one month's supply for all medicines you and your children are taking
A copy of any prescriptions

Things to help you cope
Pictures
Keepsakes
Children's small toys or books

* Don't share a calling card or cellphone plan with an abuser, because they can be used to find you. And if you already have a shared card or phone plan, try not to use them after you've left.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Yes, despite of everything that's going on... I am not quite there yet... Have to get prepared.
> I'm sure the day I have enough, I will find the strength to leave.


 Then spend this time saving up every penny you can scrape together so you never need to call him for help.


----------



## turnera

EnjoliWoman said:


> Oh, and regarding "Will I find love again" - forget the "again". You've never had it. You serve a purpose in his life which is to make him feel better by making you feel small and to make him look like a good family man. He does not love you.
> 
> You will find love and think "OMG! THIS is what I was supposed to have!"


There are SEVERAL women over at MB who are now at this stage. Found a man who actually treats women with respect, doesn't make them scared or unhappy, communicates with them, treats the kids great...they all say the same thing - this is what it was SUPPOSED to be like!


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> There are SEVERAL women over at MB who are now at this stage. Found a man who actually treats women with respect, doesn't make them scared or unhappy, communicates with them, treats the kids great...they all say the same thing - this is what it was SUPPOSED to be like!


Sorry, what is MB?


----------



## Jellybeans

Marriage Builders


----------



## Jellybeans

I didn't have anything prepared when I left now that I think of it. LOL.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Jellybeans said:


> I didn't have anything prepared when I left now that I think of it. LOL.


I did and forgot it all! Except I had a secret bank account my parents helped with so I could consult an attorney and I had gotten my own cell phone about a month prior. And I had my car and keys.

It wasn't until I went back to pack that I got SS cards, immunization record and a few other things. I never had account numbers for credit cards but I got my 3 free annual credit reports and everything was listed there.


----------



## Troubledlinda

So the day you decide to leave, you just tell your spouse that you're leaving and that's it, you're gone? I know Enjoliwoman talked about preparing a bag and important stuff... sorry, just thinking out loud.


----------



## Openminded

Troubledlinda said:


> I know most people on thie thread have advised that I separate, divorce and so forth, that he will never change but God it is so hard... it is really scary! I really feel paralyzed by fear... Anybody been done there and done it despite of their fear?


I think most of us who decide to end a troubled marriage face the fear of the unknown. I ended a 45 year marriage this summer due to his cheating. And I'm happy. It can be done.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> There are SEVERAL women over at MB who are now at this stage. Found a man who actually treats women with respect, doesn't make them scared or unhappy, communicates with them, treats the kids great...they all say the same thing - this is what it was SUPPOSED to be like!


Yes, I hope to get to that "happy" place but before that I need to get ober this hurdle and find "myself"

My parents have been great with love and support and I feel sad that I got them involved as I can see the sadness this is causing them...


----------



## VFW

Linda,

Your husband is a garden variety Passive Aggressive, you can't get him back to a normal relationship, because he is at his normal .... period. It doesn't matter how nice you are to him. He is the center of his universe and you are required to revolve around him. This is used as a controlling mechanism. To the outside world he looks normal to them, he doesn't yell, shout bad things and appears to be average Joe. This will not change without professional help, mainly because he does not see his behavior as a problem. 

What you need is a plan and the courage to execute the plan. It will not be easy, but you have to respect yourself enough to do this. Repeat after me.....I am a person of value and I deserve to be loved. Say it again, again and yet again. Now for a plan.

1. Consult with an attorney to determine your legal rights. You don't have to do anything, you just need to know your legal position. 

2. You need money, this calls for a job. You have been without a job for 6 months, you will find another. Don't ask him, find job and then inform him this is what you are doing. 

3. Consult with a marriage counselor and set up a plan. 

4. Write out an agenda for a meeting with husband (so emotion doesn't get you off track) and let him know how you feel and how you plan to fix it. Marriage counselling is non-negotiable as he needs someone to identify his passive aggressive behavior as a problem for the relationship. 

5. He will not like this and will initially refuse to go. Make an exit strategy, this may call for you to get assistance from your folks initially. Move son to a safe place and inform him you have consulted with an attorney and intend to file for divorce. Hand him a copy of your temporary visitation policy and that you will be in touch. Things will start to get real serious for him, but you have to stick to your plan once you move.

6. During this separation period, if he wants to reconcile it must be on the condition of attending counseling. Additionally, set the separation as a period of healing over the next 90 days. There should be family days and date nights, that includes intimacy, but no sex initially. Sex should be added along the way with over night visits. 

7. At the end of the 90 days, you should have a better feel if you want to move back in, continue separation or divorce. I know you are concerned with your son, but the only thing that is worse than being from a broken home is living in a broken home.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> Yes, I hope to get to that "happy" place but before that I need to get ober this hurdle and find "myself"
> 
> My parents have been great with love and support and I feel sad that I got them involved as I can see the sadness this is causing them...


I am sure their sadness is that you ended up with a jerk of a man who treats you like crap. They will be there for you when you finally decide to get out.


----------



## Troubledlinda

VFW said:


> Linda,
> 
> Your husband is a garden variety Passive Aggressive, you can't get him back to a normal relationship, because he is at his normal .... period. It doesn't matter how nice you are to him. He is the center of his universe and you are required to revolve around him. This is used as a controlling mechanism. To the outside world he looks normal to them, he doesn't yell, shout bad things and appears to be average Joe. This will not change without professional help, mainly because he does not see his behavior as a problem.
> 
> What you need is a plan and the courage to execute the plan. It will not be easy, but you have to respect yourself enough to do this. Repeat after me.....I am a person of value and I deserve to be loved. Say it again, again and yet again. Now for a plan.
> 
> 1. Consult with an attorney to determine your legal rights. You don't have to do anything, you just need to know your legal position.
> 
> 2. You need money, this calls for a job. You have been without a job for 6 months, you will find another. Don't ask him, find job and then inform him this is what you are doing.
> 
> 3. Consult with a marriage counselor and set up a plan.
> 
> 4. Write out an agenda for a meeting with husband (so emotion doesn't get you off track) and let him know how you feel and how you plan to fix it. Marriage counselling is non-negotiable as he needs someone to identify his passive aggressive behavior as a problem for the relationship.
> 
> 5. He will not like this and will initially refuse to go. Make an exit strategy, this may call for you to get assistance from your folks initially. Move son to a safe place and inform him you have consulted with an attorney and intend to file for divorce. Hand him a copy of your temporary visitation policy and that you will be in touch. Things will start to get real serious for him, but you have to stick to your plan once you move.
> 
> 6. During this separation period, if he wants to reconcile it must be on the condition of attending counseling. Additionally, set the separation as a period of healing over the next 90 days. There should be family days and date nights, that includes intimacy, but no sex initially. Sex should be added along the way with over night visits.
> 
> 7. At the end of the 90 days, you should have a better feel if you want to move back in, continue separation or divorce. I know you are concerned with your son, but the only thing that is worse than being from a broken home is living in a broken home.


Hello, 

We all know that marriage and individual councelling is a must in our situation, however, there is one thing I didn't mention: We live in Africa and to be honest, in our city I have never heard of any therapists so I don't believe this service is available, plus in this small city, where everyone knows everyone, confidentiality does not exist. People going to councelling are viewed as "crazy", I know it is ridiculous....


----------



## Troubledlinda

Openminded said:


> I think most of us who decide to end a troubled marriage face the fear of the unknown. I ended a 45 year marriage this summer due to his cheating. And I'm happy. It can be done.


Wow, you ended 45 years of marriage! This gives me strength


----------



## Openminded

Troubledlinda said:


> Wow, you ended 45 years of marriage! This gives me strength


It definitely can be done. I'm happier than I've been in many years. It was a hard road to get here but I'm glad I got out.


----------



## turnera

Jellybeans said:


> Marriage Builders


 Sorry, got my acronyms wrong. I meant MA, or Marriage Advocates. I don't recommend Marriage Builders to anyone.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> So the day you decide to leave, you just tell your spouse that you're leaving and that's it, you're gone?


That's your female guilt talking. Thinking you have to make it 'all right' with him before you can leave. No matter what he's done to you (and not cared if you were 'all right' with what he did to you).

You don't owe him anything other than "I have to go." You can work anything else out later.


----------



## turnera

If you have no access to therapists, you can write down examples of what you need to see in him. It's up to him to figure out how to get to that point.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Troubledlinda said:


> So the day you decide to leave, you just tell your spouse that you're leaving and that's it, you're gone? I know Enjoliwoman talked about preparing a bag and important stuff... sorry, just thinking out loud.


The day I left I just drove off. I didn't answer my cell phone and about 10 minutes later he disconnected the service since it was in his name. I pulled out the one I had gotten a month earlier and called family and friends to warn them he would be looking for me.

Don't worry about dragging your parents into this. You have a child - you know the love and protective feeling you have for him. Your parents feel the same way about you and would do anything to help. Accept it. You'll have plenty of time to repay their kindness.


----------



## Cosmos

When planning a safe exit, here's a checklist of things to take with you:-


Some form of identification


Birth certificates for you and your children


Passports (including passports for all your children), visas and work permits


Money, bankbooks, cheque book and credit and debit cards


Keys for house, car, and place of work


Cards for payment of Child Benefit and any other welfare benefits you are entitled to


Driving licence (if you have one) and car registration documents, if applicable


Prescribed medication


Copies of documents relating to your housing tenure (for example, mortgage details or lease and rental agreements)


Insurance documents, including national insurance number


Address book


Family photographs, your diary, jewellery, small items of sentimental value


Clothing and toiletries for you and your children


Your children’s favourite small toys

You should also take any documentation relating to the abuse – e.g. police reports, court orders such as injunctions and restraining orders, and copies of medical records if you have them.


----------



## Cosmos

EnjoliWoman said:


> The day I left I just drove off. I didn't answer my cell phone and about 10 minutes later he disconnected the service since it was in his name. I pulled out the one I had gotten a month earlier and called family and friends to warn them he would be looking for me.


Charming, aren't they?  I got a text to say he'd cancelled my car insurance and breakdown cover (both of which he'd insisted on having in his name)! Grrr...


----------



## Jellybeans

EnjoliWoman said:


> I did and forgot it all! Except I had a secret bank account my parents helped with so I could consult an attorney and I had gotten my own cell phone about a month prior. And I had my car and keys.


A secret bank account? Sly Enjoli!


----------



## Wise Fairy

Troubledlinda said:


> Thank you for the thread, I read it and find it quite interesting. I know my reasons for staying, although my thinking light be wrong, this is just a few of them:
> 
> 1) Feelings of guilt towards my son, thinking that he would be happier with mom and dad around like a "normal" family. What do I tell him? Will he forgive me? The "abuse is aimed at me, not at him". He looooves his dad (what child doesn't).
> 
> *]Understandably he would be happier with a happy mom and dad but he is being show alienation through his parents
> Ask yourself this question will he do the same when he is grown
> to his wife or girlfriend?[/COLOR]*:scratchhead:
> 
> [2) Afraid of making a mistake - finding it hard to accept the situation as abusive - thinking that maybe I'm exaggerating (this is crazy) and thinking that maybe if I change, the situation will change (that's what I've been told for the past 4 years)
> Ans: This is called denial refusal to see the situation for what it is[/B]
> 
> 3) Afraid of the unknown: what do I do next? Will he be available for our son once we spilt? Will I find love again? Will I be able to be both mom and dad for my son?
> 
> *Ans: One step at a time here, preparation is the key job, separate private bank account just in case. Love will find you *
> 
> 4) Being a Christian, I know that God hates divorce... Will I be punished for it...
> 
> ]]Ans: No because God does not like us to be punished for abuse, emotional, physical or any kind and God does forgive so we should forgive ourselves and others who trespass against us.
> [/B]
> All these run trhough my head day and night... it is absolute torture.



I have been physically abused twice in my life and now emotionally abused after the 4 year relationship ended 6 wks ago if I can get through this I know you can, and here is the sad thing after counseling I didn't learn about emotional abuse or silent treatment and it was worse. See my post previous on Narcissism. I have two grown children they are happy healthy and well adjusted. Children are resilient. The main thing I want for you is to be able to feel self worth and to be prepared which it sounds that you are not at this point don't delay regardless of whether you stay or go.

If you decide to stay this has to change for your well being and your son's remember he is seeing this behavior and always, always have a back up plan, and be prepared.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Wise Fairy said:


> The main thing I want for you is to be able to feel self worth and to be prepared which it sounds that you are not at this point don't delay regardless of whether you stay or go.
> 
> If you decide to stay this has to change for your well being and your son's remember he is seeing this behavior and always, always have a back up plan, and be prepared.


I can't believe I finally gave in to quiting my job after 2 years of him talking about it... At least having a job during these times of silence, helps to keep my mind occupied, see people, be out of the house... and have money to support myself and my son. Pfff.... I know I can't go back and change what's done but boy I wish I hadn't give in... I thought it would make things between us, thought he would be happier.... oh boy


----------



## Caribbean Man

Jellybeans said:


> When she's had enough/gets mad enough, she will leave.
> 
> She's not there yet.
> 
> The day I left, I somehow found superhuman strength. Nothing in the world could have kept me from leaving that day.


Ok
I fully understand and agree.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Troubledlinda said:


> Hello,
> 
> We all know that marriage and individual councelling is a must in our situation, however, there is one thing I didn't mention: *We live in Africa *and to be honest, in our city I have never heard of any therapists so I don't believe this service is available, plus in this small city, where everyone knows everyone, confidentiality does not exist. People going to councelling are viewed as "crazy", I know it is ridiculous....


Do you have any close relatives nearby who you trust that can help?
Is he an expat working in Africa or are you all Africans?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Cosmos said:


> Charming, aren't they?  I got a text to say he'd cancelled my car insurance and breakdown cover (*both of which he'd insisted on having in his name*)! *Grrr...*


lol,
Hindsight_ is_ 20/20?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> I can't believe I finally gave in to quiting my job after 2 years of him talking about it... At least having a job during these times of silence, helps to keep my mind occupied, see people, be out of the house... and have money to support myself and my son. Pfff.... I know I can't go back and change what's done but boy I wish I hadn't give in... I thought it would make things between us, thought he would be happier.... oh boy


You have learned that you are not going to make him happy no matter what you do. So make yourself happy. Go back out there and get a job, get back among the living. Doing that alone should give you some strength.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Cosmos said:


> Charming, aren't they?  I got a text to say he'd cancelled my car insurance and breakdown cover (both of which he'd insisted on having in his name)! Grrr...


I'm not proud I stooped to his level. He had insisted all of the utilities be in my maiden name because he was/is in a dangerous profession. So a week after I left it dawned on me that he could very well be running heat all day with the windows open just to run up the bill out of spite so I cut off all of the utilities.

I did NOT intend for it to happen on his first weekend of visitation with kiddo; that was an oversight but he assumed it was to be a biotch. Oh well, he went to his mother's house.


----------



## Jellybeans

VFW said:


> Linda,
> 
> Your husband is a garden variety Passive Aggressive, *you can't get him back to a normal relationship, because he is at his normal* .... period. It doesn't matter how nice you are to him. *He is the center of his universe and you are required to revolve around him. This is used as a controlling mechanism.* To the outside world he looks normal to them, he doesn't yell, shout bad things and appears to be average Joe. This will not change without professional help, mainly because *he does not see his behavior as a problem. *


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Troubledlinda

Caribbean Man said:


> Do you have any close relatives nearby who you trust that can help?
> Is he an expat working in Africa or are you all Africans?


We both grew up here and both our families live here but we spent most of our school years overseas. Him in Europe and me in US and Canada. I came back here a few years ago and this is where we met and married. 

Early in our marriage, I talked to our wedding "witnesses - an older couple" to ask for advise and help, but when we finally all met to discuss our issues, he said that he was happy and that everything was fine other than small issues here and there like every couple has and pretty much made me keep quiet. I looked like a fool, there I was looking for help while my H pretended that everything was just fine... 

At least I have all the emails I wrote to him when things were bad and when I was on the silent treatment, to tell him how I was feeling. Sometimes he wrote back and sometimes he did't...


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> 4) Being a Christian, I know that God hates divorce... Will I be punished for it...



I don't think anyone here is suggesting that you divorce your husband right off the bat. Maybe you don't have to divorce him at all. You took a vow to marry someone, not to live with them. Just move out for awhile so you can get your bearings. 




Troubledlinda said:


> We live in Africa and to be honest, in our city I have never heard of any therapists so I don't believe this service is available, plus in this small city, where everyone knows everyone, confidentiality does not exist. People going to councelling are viewed as "crazy", I know it is ridiculous....


Are you African? Or are you just living there? If you are from another country, that could even work out in your favor. Maybe it's time to take the kids and go visit your parents for awhile. Locally, there might be someone else to go to; a Church minister, for example. 

If you are not African, then maybe this is one reason for his silent treatments. He knows its harder for you to leave him while in a foreign country. 

If it's really not possible to get any kind of counseling, then you may have to handle this whole thing on your own. But that's not possible unless you and your H at least get a dialog going. My wife and I were able to figure it out on our own but we talked, and she had stopped her silent treatments by then. Maybe if you leave, then he will be willing to talk on the phone. But don't come back until he can acknowledge that the problem is not just you, it's him also, and he is willing to work on it.


----------



## Wise Fairy

It sounds like right now he has you right where he wants to have you, I am glad that you have family there, it must be hard for them to witness this. 

My relationship ended 6 wks ago, the emotional abuse I suffered was horrific even at the beginning of the relationship he would take off if I said the slightest thing to upset him then he came back I accepted that behavior over and over again he did it I was stupid to not see it was emotional abuse, after physical abuse in my past you would think I would recognize it but I didn't it was so suttle, you are smart because you are seeing what is really happening here. I too have been in safe houses so I now know about preparedness as I wasn't prepared when those things happened to me. Yes it is so very sad especially when children are involved, it's just me now, but day by day getting stronger, I am out of work, middleaged, family all in England but my friends have helped to get me through and my belief in God to know that he has a much better plan for me and that's why he hasn't brought us back together this last time. 

Have you left before? If so what was the outcome?

I haven't heard of texting and emailing each other when you actually live together that is an awful way to communicate. 

I think prepare first then have the talk with him make copies of all important documents take them to your family that's what you can do now just in case. 

And it may not be you that end's this as you are not ready it could actually be him when you least expect it. Try to get a job but get copies of all your documents first because he may not want you to have a job, at least if things blow up you have your paperwork. I know it must be harder for you being in a different country and being able to see a counselor so I hope we can help give you our experience and insight learn what you can. 

I won't put the emphasis on leaving but will state again preparedness from my own experience.


----------



## turnera

Did your old job love you? Could you ask them for a job back?


----------



## turnera

IIRC, the Bible lets you leave in cases of abuse.


----------



## zeezack

My wife is doing the same thing to me. She has shut down before, but this time its been going on for 5 weeks. She told me on August 13th that she wants to get a divorce. Usually she would talk on the phone for a few minutes and then she stopped picking up her phone all together. She is now in China (she is Chinese) on a holiday with her family for a month. I've tried to console her about trying to fix the marriage and how I want to correct things my end to spend more time with her, reduce my working hours and take control of my working life. I can tell she is reading some of my emails, but she is not replying. I am about to go out of my mind because I really care for her and want to try and make things work - but her silence is driving me crazy. I am unsure of her intentions in October when she comes back. If she was just really really angry, is overwhelmed with her new job or what.


----------



## Troubledlinda

zeezack said:


> My wife is doing the same thing to me. She has shut down before, but this time its been going on for 5 weeks. She told me on August 13th that she wants to get a divorce. Usually she would talk on the phone for a few minutes and then she stopped picking up her phone all together. She is now in China (she is Chinese) on a holiday with her family for a month. I've tried to console her about trying to fix the marriage and how I want to correct things my end to spend more time with her, reduce my working hours and take control of my working life. I can tell she is reading some of my emails, but she is not replying. I am about to go out of my mind because I really care for her and want to try and make things work - but her silence is driving me crazy. I am unsure of her intentions in October when she comes back. If she was just really really angry, is overwhelmed with her new job or what.


Hello Zeezack, 

Sorry to hear that your wife is giving you the ST. I know it sucks as I've been on it now for the 5th week (in a row) and it sure feels like crap. I'm sure you miss her like crazy and wish she would just come back and be happy ever after... The good thing with her being away is that it gives you some time for yourself. My case is different because I see him everyday and sleep next to him everynight but it feels like he's not even there because he totally ignores me... almost as if he doesn't see me, I don't exist... 

I would say, stop trying to make contact with her and stop pleading. Let her do her thing and wait for her return... I feel that when you run after them, they get more power but when you start "neglecting" their behavior, they wander why you're acting different than what they normally see in your behavior and maybe that's when they reach out to you... 

What happened before she left? did you have a fight? Did she say why she wanted a divorce? 

Good luck


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> IIRC, the Bible lets you leave in cases of abuse.


What is IIRC? 
Do you have any biblical references on abuse/divorce? 
I didn't know that, I thought divorce was only allowed in case of adultery (women adultery)


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus;4343602)
Are you African? Or are you just living there? If you are from another country said:


> We both grew up here in Africa and both our families live here but we spent most of our school years overseas. Him in Europe and me in US and Canada. I came back here a few years ago and this is where we met and married.
> 
> Early in our marriage, I talked to our wedding "witnesses - an older couple" to ask for advise and help, but when we finally all met to discuss our issues, he said that he was happy and that everything was fine other than small issues here and there like every couple has and pretty much made me keep quiet. I looked like a fool, there I was looking for help while my H pretended that everything was just fine...


----------



## turnera

IIRC = if I recall correctly

I don't know where it is, I'm just repeating what many others have said.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> pretty much made me keep quiet.


How does that happen?


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> How does that happen?


I guess I kept quiet on my own  but before they arrived, he told me not to say too much and of course being afraid of him, I obeyed like a good girl so he did most of the talking.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> IIRC = if I recall correctly
> 
> I don't know where it is, I'm just repeating what many others have said.


 thank you. I will google it


----------



## Troubledlinda

Day 31 of silence! But what is he thinking? This is just crazzzzzzy!


----------



## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> What is IIRC?
> Do you have any biblical references on abuse/divorce?
> I didn't know that, I thought divorce was only allowed in case of adultery (women adultery)


Are you prepared to tolerate abuse on religious grounds? I very much doubt that your marriage vows included you allowing your H to abuse you...

_"God’s covenantal design for marriage is broken by abuse, and Scripture does not mandate that an abused wife must remain married to an abuser; therefore, the body of Christ is called to model God’s compassion toward abused women through effective strategies designed to meet the needs of women who are trying to escape abusive relationships."_ http://www.mendingthesoul.org/2011/06/a-biblical-response-

Day 31 of no speaks? What do I think he's thinking? That he can treat you with utter disrespect and control your emotions.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Thank you for the link. I will check it out. 
I know this is crazy...


----------



## turnera

meh, I'm kind of a stubborn person. If my H tried that, I'd take it on as a challenge. I'd start carrying on a LOT of activity all around him, without saying a single word to him. He wants to act like a spoiled baby? Fine. Watch me have the time of my life, right in front of him, WITHOUT HIM. My friends would be hanging out at the house every day, I'd be inviting the kids' friends and their parents over every day they'll come, I'd be bringing in all manner of construction workers to fix things he never got around to (and paying them with his credit card), I'd be rearranging the house to the way I like it, I'd keep the tv remote in my pocket at all times and watch ONLY what I like, every chance I got (HGTV marathon!), and I'd be cooking brussel sprouts every night and 'forgetting' to leave out another plate.

He wants to be invisible? Bring it on, baby!


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> meh, I'm kind of a stubborn person. If my H tried that, I'd take it on as a challenge. I'd start carrying on a LOT of activity all around him, without saying a single word to him. He wants to act like a spoiled baby? Fine. Watch me have the time of my life, right in front of him, WITHOUT HIM. My friends would be hanging out at the house every day, I'd be inviting the kids' friends and their parents over every day they'll come, I'd be bringing in all manner of construction workers to fix things he never got around to (and paying them with his credit card), I'd be rearranging the house to the way I like it, I'd keep the tv remote in my pocket at all times and watch ONLY what I like, every chance I got (HGTV marathon!), and I'd be cooking brussel sprouts every night and 'forgetting' to leave out another plate.
> 
> He wants to be invisible? Bring it on, baby!


Yeah I know, I've tried that a few times but it doesn't seem to be working... it feels like a silent battle of who is stronger. He is the champ at silence, I can't pretend to be happy and do all these things with unhappiness on my mind. it sucks! I feel like crying! 

He gets home later and later too without ever telling me when he'll be home. it is almost 9:00PM now and he is still not home and I have no idea if he is still at the office, meetings??? I have no clue and I hate it! My son asks me evrynight if he can wait up for daddy but I don't know how long he can wait since I don't know when daddy will be home... pffff

I'm really starting to believe that this man doesn't love me... Why did he marry me???


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Yeah I know, I've tried that a few times but it doesn't seem to be working... it feels like a silent battle of who is stronger.


So? Are you telling us you're just a weak little child? I doubt it.

If you're stuck with him for the time being, take back your power. Invite your friends over; tell them to bring their musical instruments. Stop acting like a doormat.


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## turnera

I thought you were going to tell him to get his key replaced. What happened with that?


----------



## Cosmos

Sorry, OP, this will only go on as long as you let it. It's time to either take action or accept that this is going to be your lot in life. You can't change your H, but you CAN change yourself. Time to wipe away those tears (which will only serve to make him feel even more powerful) and get tough...


----------



## Troubledlinda

Yes, Yes and Yes I need to be stronger and stop this c°°°p!!! and NO I don't deserve this!!!!! 

Still in the process of getting prepared! In the meantime yes I need to have fun and move on with my life! No I am not a failure even if my marriage is one... and yes my son will be ok! Other people have done it, I can do it too! No this is not love... 

Ok, I will eventually get it. bear with me people, please


----------



## Advocado

turnera said:


> meh, I'm kind of a stubborn person. If my H tried that, I'd take it on as a challenge. I'd start carrying on a LOT of activity all around him, without saying a single word to him. He wants to act like a spoiled baby? Fine. Watch me have the time of my life, right in front of him, WITHOUT HIM. My friends would be hanging out at the house every day, I'd be inviting the kids' friends and their parents over every day they'll come, I'd be bringing in all manner of construction workers to fix things he never got around to (and paying them with his credit card), I'd be rearranging the house to the way I like it,* I'd keep the tv remote in my pocket at all times and watch ONLY what I like,* every chance I got (HGTV marathon!), and I'd be cooking brussel sprouts every night and 'forgetting' to leave out another plate.
> 
> He wants to be invisible? Bring it on, baby!


Fantastic post Turnera. I LOVEthis, and the bit about the remote cracked me up. :smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## Troubledlinda

Right now I am busy educating myself on emotional abuse, although, everyone on here has identified his behavior as abuse, I have to be 100% convinced of that too... so I am reading a lot about it.


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## turnera

Did you get Why Does He Do That? It is the bible of abuse books.


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## turnera

Something to remember about the typical abuser is that HE doesn't know he's abusing you. He's just using coping skills he learned in childhood that worked for him then; it's all he knows. To him, he's just doing what's normal. So if you were to tell him he was abusive, he'd think you were crazy. That's why it does no good to negotiate with one. All you can do is change YOUR actions, YOUR choices, so that you are protected. Doing what I suggested might work because it's a very visual, tactile, real-life consequence for giving you the silent treatment. Suddenly, what he's been doing because it worked (cowed you into submission)...no longer works. Suddenly, he would have to either change his tactics, or come up for air. Once he does that, he just may realize that life up in the real world with you is better than this fake thing he's been creating out of his fear and need to control you.


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## turnera

:rofl:


Troubledlinda said:


> Right now I am busy educating myself on emotional abuse, although, everyone on here has identified his behavior as abuse, I have to be 100% convinced of that too... so I am reading a lot about it.


 Actually, you don't have to be convinced he is abusive. All you need to be convinced of is that you don't DESERVE to be manipulated and hurt and made to feel inferior.

THAT, you can change by taking back your power. And he can't do a damn thing about it.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Did you get Why Does He Do That? It is the bible of abuse books.


I've ordered the book online and waiting to receive it, as it is not to be found in any of the bookstores here but in the meantime I've found a few passages from the book on different websites.


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## Advocado

When I eventually wised up after many years of intermittent silent treatment, I pretended to be happy. But you know what, after a time I realised I wasn't pretending any more. I waivered between being happier and happy by doing stuff that made me feel good. Don't just aim to pretend to be happy. Take back your life and be happy.

And please don't underestimate the long term effect on your son of this silent treatment. Already he is puzzled and anxious about when he will next see his Dad what with him coming home late or at irregular times. And your H knows he can get to you through the child in this way. All part of this awful game of silence. 

So I'm asking once again - how do you feel about going to stay with your folks for a couple weeks. What's stopping you Linda? Please help us to understand.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> :rofl:
> Actually, you don't have to be convinced he is abusive. All you need to be convinced of is that you don't DESERVE to be manipulated and hurt and made to feel inferior.
> 
> THAT, you can change by taking back your power. And he can't do a damn thing about it.


Your little laughing smily at the top of your post just cracked me up... are you making fun of me? LOL :rofl:


----------



## steve_in_FL

Troubledlinda said:


> When we first got married, we had sex on average once a week, then it moved to once a month (if I initiated, sometimes I got turned down or he wouldnt participate. He would just lay there like a doll) so I stopped initiating cause I couldn’t handle the rejection. Many times I tried to talk to him about it, but he doesn’t want to discuss it and sometimes gives me the silent treatment for days for bringing it up. With time it became once every 4 months… in the last 2 years we had sex once (8 months ago).
> 
> No I dont think that this behavior is normal at all and have questionned him about it, wandering if he was getting it somewhere else to which his response was: "trust is the basis of marriage and if you don't trust me we have nothing to do together" but still doesnt give an explanation as to why he has no sexual desire for me... Tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can fix, change, improve it! Sex was never an issue before we got married! I feel worthless, incapable of arousing a man, rejected....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When in public, he acts like a loving husband... everyone thinks we are the perfect couple (except my parents who have notived how much I've changed)
> 
> He never gets dressed in front of me… locks the bathroom door when he is in there. If I get dressed in the room where he is, he turns the other way so not to see me. I find this so strange and depressing! Other than little pecks on the lips to say hello and goodnight, he hasn’t kissed me in the past 3 years, doesn’t hug, and doesn’t show any signs of affection. The last time he told me he loved me was 3 years ago when I gave birth. If I tell him, he doesn’t respond so I stopped telling him also. Once, when I asked him if he loves me, he answered: ‘I could love you more or I could love you less, it depends on you’…


Linda my wife NEVER reaches out to me for sex. Most women are the passive ones when it comes to that issue. So at least you tried,right? I hope he resolves HIS issues with himself. Careful, you might be wearing a burka soon.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> When I eventually wised up after many years of intermittent silent treatment, I pretended to be happy. But you know what, after a time I realised I wasn't pretending any more. I waivered between being happier and happy by doing stuff that made me feel good. Don't just aim to pretend to be happy. Take back your life and be happy.
> 
> And please don't underestimate the long term effect on your son of this silent treatment. Already he is puzzled and anxious about when he will next see his Dad what with him coming home late or at irregular times. And your H knows he can get to you through the child in this way. All part of this awful game of silence.
> 
> So I'm asking once again - how do you feel about going to stay with your folks for a couple weeks. What's stopping you Linda? Please help us to understand.


Sorry I don't remember if you separated/divorced or stayed with your spouse but changed your attiude to being happy... can you please refresh my memory. 

My parents are out of town at the moment and will be back soon, so while they are away, I am in the process of getting "ready"... remember I don't have a job and living here is not like living in the US or othe places where you can get temp jobs or part-time until you get something permanent... Job market here is pretty tough and the interview process and all that jazz is lengthy (not making excuses, but just explaining the situation so you can better understand where I stand) 

As silly as this may sound, I am afraid of him... everyday I say to myself that I will talk to him when he gets home and of course when he does evenutally get home, I just freeze. It's unbelievable. I kow you guys must probably think I'm crazy... 

Yes, the coming home at different imes everyday is done on purpose to push my buttons, maybe he's waiting for a reaction from me but I give him none... and yes he does use our son to get to me...


----------



## Wise Fairy

TL, 
I just hate the way you are being treated, 31 days and counting OMG! Get that paperwork in order everything together while you have the chance so important. 

Read all you can on emotional abuse see my write up about Narcissism. You tube has some great videos and one doctor writer on there is Sam Vaknin he has a ton of videos worth watching if you really need to hear it and the symptoms.
:lol:

Basically if you know something is wrong and your gut is telling you it is then you know what is right.


----------



## Troubledlinda

steve_in_FL said:


> Linda my wife NEVER reaches out to me for sex. Most women are the passive ones when it comes to that issue. So at least you tried,right? I hope he resolves HIS issues with himself. Careful, you might be wearing a burka soon.


You know I really don't understand this no sex thing... It's just too much for me! I've never seen it or heard of it before... I want sex and I get turned down every single time... He even called me selfish once because I wanted sex and he didn't... What the F°°°k

After being turned down so many times, I don't really want it anymore anyways... well, at least not with him as I don't find him that attractive anymore after all the pain he has caused me...


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Your little laughing smily at the top of your post just cracked me up... are you making fun of me? LOL :rofl:


 OMG, I'm so sorry. You may not believe me, but I don't know how that got there. I must have pushed the button for the smiley by mistake. I meant no disrespect.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> As silly as this may sound, I am afraid of him... everyday I say to myself that I will talk to him when he gets home and of course when he does evenutally get home, I just freeze. It's unbelievable. I kow you guys must probably think I'm crazy...


My mom was afraid of my dad for years. Once she finally got fed up with being treated like sh!t and told him she was filing for divorce, suddenly the nasty mean blowhard turned into a sniveling, blubbering crybaby. It was the most pathetic thing I have ever witnessed. As if she hadnt already lost respect for him. If this happens to you, no matter how hard he cries, DONT fall for it! If you do, the crybaby will turn back into the ogre.


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## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> OMG, I'm so sorry. You may not believe me, but I don't know how that got there. I must have pushed the button for the smiley by mistake. I meant no disrespect.


Oh, don't worry. I didn't take it bad... Just found it funny for some reason.


----------



## Troubledlinda

3Xnocharm said:


> My mom was afraid of my dad for years. Once she finally got fed up with being treated like sh!t and told him she was filing for divorce, suddenly the nasty mean blowhard turned into a sniveling, blubbering crybaby. It was the most pathetic thing I have ever witnessed. As if she hadnt already lost respect for him. If this happens to you, no matter how hard he cries, DONT fall for it! If you do, the crybaby will turn back into the ogre.


You know what, I don't actually think he would cry or stop me from leaving... 

Last year, after a long silent treatment episode, I told him that I didn't think things would work out and maybe we should split up (to be honest, I was just really looking for a reaction) and he said fine, if that's what you want go ahead, leave. I was living here before we got married so if spliting is what you want, take your stuff and leave. 

So crybaby... hmmmm, I don't think so


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## turnera

Many men have so much pride that they WILL let you walk out, rather than show weakness. OTOH, maybe he just felt you're so weak you were just bluffing. 

Which you were.


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## Troubledlinda

So, I sent him a text about an hour ago (he's at work) saying: "we need to talk". Not 100% sure of what I will tell him but at least this way I won't freeze like an idiot when I see him... and I will actually have to say something.... Of course he didn't respond to my text, but that doesn't surprise me at all... 

So what do I tell him? Guess I just want to tell him that I don't want to live like this anymore and if he has any suggestions as to how we can fix things, I'm open to it... if on the other hand he wants to continue cutting me out of his life the way he's doing, let's go ahead and do it officialy so we can both be free... How does that sound?


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## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> You know what, I don't actually think he would cry or stop me from leaving...
> 
> Last year, after a long silent treatment episode, I told him that I didn't think things would work out and maybe we should split up (to be honest, I was just really looking for a reaction) and he said fine, if that's what you want go ahead, leave. I was living here before we got married so if spliting is what you want, take your stuff and leave.
> 
> So crybaby... hmmmm, I don't think so


When my ex-abuser saw me packing, he said he was going out and would be back in 2 hours and that I should be gone by then. I think he thought I was bluffing, too (I was very ill at the time - having ended up in emergency the day before with respiratory problems), until he came home to an empty house. Then the furious texting and phoning began. I calmly told him that I wouldn't be responding to him again, which I didn't. It didn't stop him from trying to track me down for just on 2 years, though.

If you say that you're leaving, OP, you must follow through. If you don't, the abuse will escalate very quickly.


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## Troubledlinda

I know, I know... re-reading my post and I know what you guys are gonna say: "You're giving him control of the situation and he has the choice to suggest fixing or officially cut off"... pffffff. What the F.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> So, I sent him a text about an hour ago (he's at work) saying: "we need to talk". Not 100% sure of what I will tell him but at least this way I won't freeze like an idiot when I see him... and I will actually have to say something.... Of course he didn't respond to my text, but that doesn't surprise me at all...
> 
> So what do I tell him? Guess I just want to tell him that I don't want to live like this anymore and if he has any suggestions as to how we can fix things, I'm open to it... if on the other hand he wants to continue cutting me out of his life the way he's doing, let's go ahead and do it officialy so we can both be free... How does that sound?


Yeah, dont give him a choice. Tell him that you are not dealing with this any more, and will be moving forward with filing for divorce. And then DO IT. You can always stop the process if by some miracle he sees the light and changes.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Cosmos said:


> When my ex-abuser saw me packing, he said he was going out and would be back in 2 hours and that I should be gone by then. I think he thought I was bluffing, too (I was very ill at the time - having ended up in emergency the day before with respiratory problems), until he came home to an empty house. Then the furious texting and phoning began. I calmly told him that I wouldn't be responding to him again, which I didn't. It didn't stop him from trying to track me down for just on 2 years, though.
> 
> If you say that you're leaving, OP, you must follow through. If you don't, the abuse will escalate very quickly.


I don't want to say that I'm leaving until I am 100% sure of my decision, but at the same time I have to let him know that I no longer want to live like this... 

I want love, respect, friendship, sex, intimacy, fun, laughter, affection... none of which I get from him, not even when we are "good"

He never hugs me, never kisses me, never tells me he loves me and when I ask he can't even answer straight... I'm so drained... never compliments me but knows how to compliment others...


----------



## turnera

You can say "We are living in a loveless marriage and I'm at my wit's end. I can't continue this way. If you don't care enough about me to even try to meet my needs, our marriage is just going to die. I'm not moving out today, I'm not ready yet, but I just want you to know that if nothing changes, you're going to come home one day to an empty house."

Say that and just walk away.


----------



## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> I want love, respect, friendship, sex, intimacy, fun, laughter, affection... none of which I get from him, not even when we are "good"


You can only have those things with a normal, healthy person. Abusers are neither of those things.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> You can say "We are living in a loveless marriage and I'm at my wit's end. I can't continue this way. If you don't care enough about me to even try to meet my needs, our marriage is just going to die. I'm not moving out today, I'm not ready yet, but I just want you to know that if nothing changes, you're going to come home one day to an empty house."
> 
> Say that and just walk away.


Sounds good, thanks. 
I can already feel the knot in my stomach... I can already see the mean look and the ugly expression on his face.


----------



## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> Sounds good, thanks.
> I can already feel the knot in my stomach... I can already see the mean look and the ugly expression on his face.


But just remember, Linda, that look and that expression is there for that very reason; to intimidate you. Do some meditation, if necessary, to calm yourself down before speaking to him, and when you do speak to him focus on a point between his eyes - completely ignoring the look and expression. When you've said your piece, calmly walk away.


----------



## KAM1959

From what your saying I would concur it doesn't sound like much of a marriage. It how the saying goes you damned if you do and damned if you don't. However, what is important to acknowledge is what you are living is know as "mental abuse". What he is playing is mind games and exercising power. In a very small way you gave it to him because you got emotional over things. Now he will exercise that power when the opportunity arises. That is not health for you and, believe it or not, it's worse on him. This is because in the end he will be the one to suffer! 
 My greater concern in the situation you are describing is when or has "physical abuse" begin/began. When it comes to power games they take many forms. First, mental as you described. Second, is the denial of intimacy and sex. Third, is the physical abuse. In short, any abuse is a matter of power and most often the one exercising the power that is painful is one with great personal problems deep inside themselves. If he does not confront his demons now, admit there is a problem things will only get worse for both of you. 
Thus, this is what I see from what you have written. Now there are times when I get "silent" with my wife as a result of a dispute or a topic that I would not like to discuss or hear about (such as her work because she always talks about work) but I do this because I do not want to say anything that I will regret later for many reasons. This is far different than what you are describing. I don't really know what to tell you to do, simply that you should take care of yourself and your child first. He is a grown man and he will eventually have to deal with the consequences of his behavior: sooner hopefully rather than later!


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Sounds good, thanks.
> I can already feel the knot in my stomach... I can already see the mean look and the ugly expression on his face.


 Don't look at him when you say it. In fact, look away. And then walk away. We call it a 'drive-by comment.' Doesn't give them time to say anything back (not that he would, lol), gives them time to think.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Yes, will let you all know how it goes!


----------



## AVR1962

Troubledlinda said:


> Our sex life is non existent and many times in the past 4 years I tried to talk to him about it, but he doesn’t want to discuss it and sometimes gives me the silent treatment for days for bringing it up. With time it became once every 4 months… in the last 2 years we had sex once (8 months ago). At one point early in our marriage I asked him if he was seeing someone as I couldn't understand how a man could go days and weeks without ever needing sex... I mean, isn't that always on a man's mind? He got angry with me and said that trust was the basis of marriage and if I didn't trust him, then we didn't have anything to do together... but at the same time, he never gave me an explanation to why he has no desires for me (which never happened before marriage).
> 
> Reagrding separation papers, I am not yet on that level. I have to think of a plan, get organized and decide if that's what I really want... as silly as this may sound I still hope that things can change for the better, I just have to try everuthing I can before I call it quits... In the meantime I come and vent here.


Lady, you just wrote my history. My counselors have said my husband is passive-aggressive, that he established his sex life with fantasy rather than real women as he had a fear (more than likely rejection) which developed into a porn addiction and infatuations with other women. I am not ugly by all means but I also am not a playboy center-fold either. I used to go to him basically begging for crumbs of affection as our whole marriage has been without but finally I too said enough is enough and like you I quit going to him at all. It's been 3 1/2 years now since I stopped seeking him and in that time we have probably had sex maybe 5 times. The times we have done it I did so just to make him happy but I was pretty grossed out by it.


----------



## Troubledlinda

AVR1962 said:


> Lady, you just wrote my history. My counselors have said my husband is passive-aggressive, that he established his sex life with fantasy rather than real women as he had a fear (more than likely rejection) which developed into a porn addiction and infatuations with other women. I am not ugly by all means but I also am not a playboy center-fold either. I used to go to him basically begging for crumbs of affection as our whole marriage has been without but finally I too said enough is enough and like you I quit going to him at all. It's been 3 1/2 years now since I stopped seeking him and in that time we have probably had sex maybe 5 times. The times we have done it I did so just to make him happy but I was pretty grossed out by it.


Does he give you the silent treatment as well?


----------



## Troubledlinda

OK, he's home! 9h15 yesterday, 6h35 tonight... 
Deep breath.... waiting to put child in bed and then let's do it!


----------



## turnera

He may not bring it up, probably won't. So you're just going to have to go up to him and say it. Even if he pretends he's not listening, SAY IT ANYWAY. Wait a second to see if he responds, probably won't. Then walk away. He's been warned.


----------



## lenzi

Troubledlinda said:


> You know what, I don't actually think he would cry or stop me from leaving...
> 
> Last year, after a long silent treatment episode, I told him that I didn't think things would work out and maybe we should split up (to be honest, I was just really looking for a reaction) and he said fine, if that's what you want go ahead, leave. I was living here before we got married so if spliting is what you want, take your stuff and leave.
> 
> So crybaby... hmmmm, I don't think so


You have a 3 year old child, and you are the primary caregiver? Good chance that in a divorce you would be awarded sole occupancy of the marital residence because the court won't want to see the child be relocated. 

Also, your husband may have known you were just 'testing him' or at least suspected as much since it's totally out of your typical weak character to really do something like that, or he may just have blown off the idea because he didn't want to deal with the real possibility of divorce.

If you want things to change, file for divorce and request sole custody and sole occupancy of the marital home for as long as your child has not yet reached the age of majority.

Bet you get a stronger reaction than you did when you simply mentioned it.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> He may not bring it up, probably won't. So you're just going to have to go up to him and say it. Even if he pretends he's not listening, SAY IT ANYWAY. Wait a second to see if he responds, probably won't. Then walk away. He's been warned.


Pffff, just had the talk! Did not go well! Ended up fighting... 

All I said was: "Look, I wanted to tell you, as you've noticed, things aren't going well between us and I am tired of it. I am not happy with the indiference, the seilence and the disrespect..."

He stopped me and said: "before you start complaining about how you're not happy, look at yourself in the mirror and check out your behavior"

"Really? my behavior? and what exactly is it that makes you unhappy? Tell me? I want to know" 
Of course he didn't say, so I continued to say that I could tell him all the things he does that make me unhappy... 

I said: "stop acting like the nice guy when you're out to show everyone that you're so nice and then come home and treat me like I don't exist" 

He then said I was crazy :scratchhead:
and told me to go ahead and write a list all the things I blame him for so he can make photocopies and go show the world what a bad guy he is??? 

Then he said: "make your decision"

"This is your chance to express yourself, to say what is upseting you, to tell me the things you don't like... speak... you're a grown man, speak" but he kept saying "go look at your self in the mirror, go look at that face in the mirror, it doesn't make me want to go towards you"... 


And then it was just back and forth until I got up and left the room!


----------



## turnera

So...you never got around to telling him that you were going to leave him?


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> So...you never got around to telling him that you were going to leave him?


I just said let's end it... and that I have the same rights he does to live in this place (I got that right the day we got married) so if he is so miserable with me that he has to ignore me for weeks, he doesn't have to live here anymore. 

I got off track when he interrupted me...


----------



## Troubledlinda

lenzi said:


> You have a 3 year old child, and you are the primary caregiver? Good chance that in a divorce you would be awarded sole occupancy of the marital residence because the court won't want to see the child be relocated.
> 
> Also, your husband may have known you were just 'testing him' or at least suspected as much since it's totally out of your typical weak character to really do something like that, or he may just have blown off the idea because he didn't want to deal with the real possibility of divorce.
> 
> If you want things to change, file for divorce and request sole custody and sole occupancy of the marital home for as long as your child has not yet reached the age of majority.
> 
> Bet you get a stronger reaction than you did when you simply mentioned it.


Honestly, I don't think I want to live here anymore. I know it would be best for my son as this is the only home he knows but nah... If I eventually do leave, I want a freash start in a fresh home, free of memories... 

As of custody, remember, I don't have a job and we're in Africa. The law is different.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I guess, after this, the silence will last longer...


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> Pffff, just had the talk! Did not go well! Ended up fighting...
> 
> All I said was: "Look, I wanted to tell you, as you've noticed, things aren't going well between us and I am tired of it. I am not happy with the indiference, the seilence and the disrespect..."
> 
> He stopped me and said: "before you start complaining about how you're not happy, look at yourself in the mirror and check out your behavior"
> 
> "Really? my behavior? and what exactly is it that makes you unhappy? Tell me? I want to know"
> Of course he didn't say, so I continued to say that I could tell him all the things he does that make me unhappy...
> 
> I said: "stop acting like the nice guy when you're out to show everyone that you're so nice and then come home and treat me like I don't exist"
> 
> He then said I was crazy :scratchhead:
> and told me to go ahead and write a list all the things I blame him for so he can make photocopies and go show the world what a bad guy he is???
> 
> Then he said: "make your decision"
> 
> "This is your chance to express yourself, to say what is upseting you, to tell me the things you don't like... speak... you're a grown man, speak" but he kept saying "go look at your self in the mirror, go look at that face in the mirror, it doesn't make me want to go towards you"...
> 
> 
> And then it was just back and forth until I got up and left the room!


He is a child. You are not going to be able to have a real, adult discussion with him about this, obviously.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I am so angry right now, my body is shaking! I just scream! fudge, my marriage is over.... OMG


----------



## Troubledlinda

My poor baby boy! I feel so sorry for him!!! OMG


----------



## turnera

linda, he will be happier living in a non-dysfunctional home. And who knows, if you start standing up for yourself, your husband just may realize you're finally serious, and start making changes.

You did good.


----------



## Advocado

This is the scary part. This is where you have to dredge up all your strength and be strong. *You absolutely need to have a resolute and positive attitude. * or you will end up right back at square one. 

Keep repeating the following to yourself - over and over again, especially at times when you feel fearful, tearful and/or weak - 



*[*]Everyday I am growing stronger and wiser and I can overcome seemingly overwhelming or scary obstacles.
[*]I am worthy and my son and I deserve happiness and respect. 
[*]I am brave and I do what it takes to get me through difficult times.*


Say this to yourself several times every morning on waking and several times last thing at night. When you feel lost during the day, repeat it then too. If you can't sleep at night repeat it then as well. 

By doing the above I believe you will be able to drum it into your own head that you do indeed have the strength and wisdom to deal with your situation and come out the other end with peace of mind and happiness.

PLEASE PLEASE, even if you feel sceptical, please start doing the above and keep it up. What have you got to lose. Just do it PLEASE.


----------



## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> All I said was: "Look, I wanted to tell you, as you've noticed, things aren't going well between us and I am tired of it. I am not happy with the indiference, the seilence and the disrespect..."
> 
> He stopped me and said: "before you start complaining about how you're not happy, look at yourself in the mirror and check out your behavior"


Typical abusive behaviour. Turning the tables before you had a chance to finish what you were saying by creating a smoke screen to divert the attention back to what is 'wrong with you!

I don't know whereabouts you are in Africa, Linda, but I lived in South Africa for 28 years and worked in the legal profession for much of that time. Although it is patriarchal society, the law does protect women and children when it comes to divorce.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> He stopped me and said: "before you start complaining about how you're not happy, look at yourself in the mirror and check out your behavior"
> 
> "Really? my behavior? and what exactly is it that makes you unhappy? Tell me? I want to know"
> Of course he didn't say, so I continued to say that I could tell him all the things he does that make me unhappy...


Have you ever played poker, Linda? What your husband is doing is called a bluff. The cards he's holding in his hands are worthless, so he's pretending like he's winning and knows what he's doing. If he had a real complaint about your behavior, he would have told you by now. He's got nothing.





> He then said I was crazy :scratchhead:
> and told me to go ahead and write a list all the things I blame him for so he can make photocopies and go show the world what a bad guy he is???


You could have told him: "I don't have to write a list, I've already written it all down". Then give him the link to this forum discussion, so he can read it all for himself, and share it with all his friends if he wants! 

I suggested this once before, but I am even more certain now. It sounds very strongly like he doesn't want to be married to you anymore, but isn't man enough to come out and say he wants a divorce, so he's pushing your buttons until you explode and demand one. He wants *YOU* to look like the crazy one and be the "bad guy" in any divorce. I hate to sound pessimistic, and I hope I am wrong, but that's what it looks like from here. 




> Then he said: "make your decision"


Then you should have said: "if it's my decision, then I decide that we go to marriage counseling" (or maybe go see the older couple you said you both spoke to before). 




Troubledlinda said:


> I am so angry right now, my body is shaking! I just scream! fudge, my marriage is over.... OMG



Linda, I think you are jumping ahead a few too many steps, your marriage isn't necessarily over. What you needed was a game changer, and it sounds like you got one. Maybe. If you move out, then you've changed the game for certain. But even moving out doesn't necessarily mean the end of the marriage. Eventually he might regret his behavior, he might apologize, he might agree to go to some kind of marriage counseling. Heck he might finally tell you what these mysterious things you do that bother him so much. Who knows? 

But whatever happens, keep in mind that it's likely his goal is to drive you crazy and make you upset. The more you get upset, the more he "wins". Try to be calm and take this one step at a time.


----------



## Troubledlinda

3Xnocharm said:


> You are not going to be able to have a real, adult discussion with him about this, obviously.


This is the thing that bothers me, if things aren't going well and we are not able to talk about the problems, how in the world are we supposed to fix them? We all have issues, I'm not perfect, but God knows I want to improve and change the things on my part that contribute to the bad situation.... How am i supposed to do that when my H says he's not happy with me but wwon't tell me why? It is so frustrating!


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> This is the scary part. This is where you have to dredge up all your strength and be strong. *You absolutely need to have a resolute and positive attitude. * or you will end up right back at square one.
> 
> Keep repeating the following to yourself - over and over again, especially at times when you feel fearful, tearful and/or weak -
> 
> 
> 
> *[*]Everyday I am growing stronger and wiser and I can overcome seemingly overwhelming or scary obstacles.
> [*]I am worthy and my son and I deserve happiness and respect.
> [*]I am brave and I do what it takes to get me through difficult times.*
> 
> Thank you, I will do it. It can't hurt
> 
> 
> Say this to yourself several times every morning on waking and several times last thing at night. When you feel lost during the day, repeat it then too. If you can't sleep at night repeat it then as well.
> 
> By doing the above I believe you will be able to drum it into your own head that you do indeed have the strength and wisdom to deal with your situation and come out the other end with peace of mind and happiness.
> 
> PLEASE PLEASE, even if you feel sceptical, please start doing the above and keep it up. What have you got to lose. Just do it PLEASE.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Cosmos said:


> Typical abusive behaviour. Turning the tables before you had a chance to finish what you were saying by creating a smoke screen to divert the attention back to what is 'wrong with you!
> 
> I don't know whereabouts you are in Africa, Linda, but I lived in South Africa for 28 years and worked in the legal profession for much of that time. Although it is patriarchal society, the law does protect women and children when it comes to divorce.



He does this everytime we have an argument. Can't see what he is doing to hurt but is quick to tell me to look at myself and my behavior. Well, does he excpect me to be all nice and loving when he can't even say a hello and acknowledge my existence? 

Cool, I actually spent 8 years in Johannesburg during my teenage years but we live in central africa now.


----------



## AVR1962

Troubledlinda said:


> Does he give you the silent treatment as well?


Oh yeah, and it doesn't even have to be over something I have said. It is like I am supposed to be this mind reader and know what he is thinking. If it doesn't please him he pouts and is silent. I am always the one to go to him to find out he is thinking.

My counselor says that this should not be happening and says that our relationship is unbalanced. He says that when we are upset at our spouse (men or women) we each should converse this to the spouse it a way that they can understand the offense without being angry. Counselor says that husband expects me to treat him the way his family did growing up. He is the only boy and had been in a burn accident as a young boy and the family dotted on him like he was some kind of god.

Here's an example of what happened not long ago. We were headed to the port for a cruise, husband made a real bad choice in traffic and we nearly got hit by another car. We all exclaimed. I said, "that was stupid." Rather than saying, 'yeah, I don't know what I was thinking' or 'I didn't know that car was so close' or asking if everyone was alright he choice to ignore me the whole cruise. Of course I was the one that went to him to talk and what was his response? "How would you feel if I told you that something you did was stupid, stupid is not a very kind word. I use the word stupid all the time. I asked my counselor if the word was that uncommon or if that should have been his response and he said that my thinking was on target and husband's is not. He does not want to take ownership for his actions.

Another time we had to be at a destination at a certain time and we had to catch a flight in order to get to this destination. Husband tells me what time we have to be at the check out gate, I never questioned it. We get there and the gate had closed 8 minutes prior. We found out that if we were checking in luggage we had to be there 15 minutes earlier and husband had not known this. What did he do? He turns to me and says, 'If you would not be so insistent on getting things done at home before we leave we would have been here on time." I was shocked, this had nothing to do with me or what I had been doing at home. He was all mad and now we're in a bind because we still have to get to our destination by a certain time. Does he help out? No! I am making calls to friends to call travel agents. I finally found an agent that could get us on the next flight. Cost us more than planned but we made it. He stayed out of the planning.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Have you ever played poker, Linda? What your husband is doing is called a bluff. The cards he's holding in his hands are worthless, so he's pretending like he's winning and knows what he's doing. If he had a real complaint about your behavior, he would have told you by now. He's got nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could have told him: "I don't have to write a list, I've already written it all down". Then give him the link to this forum discussion, so he can read it all for himself, and share it with all his friends if he wants!
> 
> I suggested this once before, but I am even more certain now. It sounds very strongly like he doesn't want to be married to you anymore, but isn't man enough to come out and say he wants a divorce, so he's pushing your buttons until you explode and demand one. He wants *YOU* to look like the crazy one and be the "bad guy" in any divorce. I hate to sound pessimistic, and I hope I am wrong, but that's what it looks like from here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you should have said: "if it's my decision, then I decide that we go to marriage counseling" (or maybe go see the older couple you said you both spoke to before).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linda, I think you are jumping ahead a few too many steps, your marriage isn't necessarily over. What you needed was a game changer, and it sounds like you got one. Maybe. If you move out, then you've changed the game for certain. But even moving out doesn't necessarily mean the end of the marriage. Eventually he might regret his behavior, he might apologize, he might agree to go to some kind of marriage counseling. Heck he might finally tell you what these mysterious things you do that bother him so much. Who knows?
> 
> But whatever happens, keep in mind that it's likely his goal is to drive you crazy and make you upset. The more you get upset, the more he "wins". Try to be calm and take this one step at a time.


I guess now is the time to do what people have suggested on here about doing things that make me happy and try to make this situation as bearable as possible until I'm ready for the next step. In the meantime of course, look for a job, get ready mentally and emotionally. 

Normally, after an argument like yesterday, he would sleep on the couch but I'm surprised he came to bed (around 2:00 AM)


----------



## AVR1962

Troubledlinda said:


> This is the thing that bothers me, if things aren't going well and we are not able to talk about the problems, how in the world are we supposed to fix them? We all have issues, I'm not perfect, but God knows I want to improve and change the things on my part that contribute to the bad situation.... How am i supposed to do that when my H says he's not happy with me but won't tell me why? It is so frustrating!


Does your husband also change any answers he might have? Like if you ask him why he did something and he gives you an answer, if you were then to ask him a week later the same question would his answer be the same? My husband always has a different answer so you never really get to know him, nothing is concrete as far as his brain (thinking).


----------



## AVR1962

Troubledlinda said:


> He does this everytime we have an argument. Can't see what he is doing to hurt but is quick to tell me to look at myself and my behavior. Well, does he excpect me to be all nice and loving when he can't even say a hello and acknowledge my existence?
> 
> Cool, I actually spent 8 years in Johannesburg during my teenage years but we live in central africa now.


You are asking if he expects you to be nice and loving? Yes! I think in his eyes he can disrespect you as he can not see his own actions but yet he does expect you to treat him well. Have you ever heard of deflecting? This is when we cannot see our own behavior and instead of owning it we blame others and when people do this it is not conscience. It is really how they see it.

Are you with the government, stationed in Africa?


----------



## Troubledlinda

AVR1962 said:


> Oh yeah, and it doesn't even have to be over something I have said. It is like I am supposed to be this mind reader and know what he is thinking. If it doesn't please him he pouts and is silent. I am always the one to go to him to find out he is thinking.
> 
> My counselor says that this should not be happening and says that our relationship is unbalanced. He says that when we are upset at our spouse (men or women) we each should converse this to the spouse it a way that they can understand the offense without being angry. Counselor says that husband expects me to treat him the way his family did growing up. He is the only boy and had been in a burn accident as a young boy and the family dotted on him like he was some kind of god.
> 
> Here's an example of what happened not long ago. We were headed to the port for a cruise, husband made a real bad choice in traffic and we nearly got hit by another car. We all exclaimed. I said, "that was stupid." Rather than saying, 'yeah, I don't know what I was thinking' or 'I didn't know that car was so close' or asking if everyone was alright he choice to ignore me the whole cruise. Of course I was the one that went to him to talk and what was his response? "How would you feel if I told you that something you did was stupid, stupid is not a very kind word. I use the word stupid all the time. I asked my counselor if the word was that uncommon or if that should have been his response and he said that my thinking was on target and husband's is not. He does not want to take ownership for his actions.
> 
> Another time we had to be at a destination at a certain time and we had to catch a flight in order to get to this destination. Husband tells me what time we have to be at the check out gate, I never questioned it. We get there and the gate had closed 8 minutes prior. We found out that if we were checking in luggage we had to be there 15 minutes earlier and husband had not known this. What did he do? He turns to me and says, 'If you would not be so insistent on getting things done at home before we leave we would have been here on time." I was shocked, this had nothing to do with me or what I had been doing at home. He was all mad and now we're in a bind because we still have to get to our destination by a certain time. Does he help out? No! I am making calls to friends to call travel agents. I finally found an agent that could get us on the next flight. Cost us more than planned but we made it. He stayed out of the planning.


This sounds so familiar. I am also to blame for everything even the mistakes or bad judgments he makes... Oh well. What can we do?


----------



## AVR1962

Troubledlinda said:


> This sounds so familiar. I am also to blame for everything even the mistakes or bad judgments he makes... Oh well. What can we do?


Awareness on our part is #1!! I have had to disconnect from my husband's 'tantrums' as I call them....his pouts. I see him as the child in his family's home being the little brother who felt sorry for himself and I have a feeling he is expecting me to catering to his "poor me' like his sisters did when he lived at home. This is actually something he and I have talked about and he says he thinks I am correct so he can identify with his own behavior.

I have had my husband read on passive-aggressive behavior and he again can identify with it as well and for a long time even after he read he would say, "I still do not think I am passive-aggressive.' After this situation with the cruise I think he finally identified and he started reading a book to help the passive-aggressive. I think it has helped.

If the person cannot identify with their own behavior and the trouble it is causing then you are the one that has to change your ways, your reaction, your approach if you are going to live with it. You have the option to stay and continue the life you have lived....or you walk away entirely.


----------



## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> Normally, after an argument like yesterday, he would sleep on the couch but I'm surprised he came to bed (around 2:00 AM)


Again, typical abusive behaviour. He felt that he'd scored big time by turning the conversation you had with him round on you, so was able to relax the 'punishment' a little because he felt in control! Grrrr...


----------



## Troubledlinda

AVR1962 said:


> I have had my husband read on passive-aggressive behavior and he again can identify with it as well and for a long time even after he read he would say, "I still do not think I am passive-aggressive.' After this situation with the cruise I think he finally identified and he started reading a book to help the passive-aggressive. I think it has helped.
> 
> If the person cannot identify with their own behavior and the trouble it is causing then you are the one that has to change your ways, your reaction, your approach if you are going to live with it. You have the option to stay and continue the life you have lived....or you walk away entirely.


Lucky you, at least he tries to read about and understand his behavior, even if he doesn't agree with it yet, at least he's open to at least reading... Mine has no problem (in his mind), for him I am the problem... he keeps telling me to be "kind" but then again when you ask him what he means by "kind" he doesn't say... "don't you know what being kind means?"
I don't see myself as a mean cruel person, I am affectionate, loving, yes I am my faults but when you ask me to be kind, I really don't know what you want...


----------



## Troubledlinda

Cosmos said:


> Again, typical abusive behaviour. He felt that he'd scored big time by turning the conversation you had with him round on you, so was able to relax the 'punishment' a little because he felt in control! Grrrr...


Sorry, I meant in the past, previous arguments and previous silent treatments, he would sleep on the couch... these past 5 weeks he's been at the other end of our bed.... 

I just thought that last night, he would have gone back to his old habit... 

Te punishment is still there... he turns the other way now when I ask a question and gives me one word answers. not that I'm trying to make conversation, but there wre things that need to be asked and said.... I kind of feel sorry for him to be honest... I really don't know what he's thinking and feeling or what happened to him in life...


----------



## Troubledlinda

A thought just crossed my mind, what if I was the abuser and he the victim? I know it sounds a bit complicated to understand but what if I was really the one giving him the silent treatment and him, just reacting to it? He seems to be going about his business without looking upset, he comes and goes as he wants... What if I really was the bad guy that he says I am? and not realizing it? Ths is all so complicated...


----------



## northernlights

Troubledlinda said:


> A thought just crossed my mind, what if I was the abuser and he the victim? I know it sounds a bit complicated to understand but what if I was really the one giving him the silent treatment and him, just reacting to it? He seems to be going about his business without looking upset, he comes and goes as he wants... What if I really was the bad guy that he says I am? and not realizing it? Ths is all so complicated...


I understand this feeling, I feel this way too sometimes. But the thing is, that just pretending that everything is fine and dandy when it's not is not healthy behavior. Your marriage is miserable, it makes you miserable, and trying to talk about it has gotten you nowhere. You're at the point where you have to save yourself, so to speak.

This is the phase that's pushing me closer to divorce than any other, I think. I'm in a very similar situation to you, married to an extremely passive-aggressive, extremely immature and self-centered man. He doesn't give me the silent treatment per se, but he engages with me in conversation so infrequently, I think maybe our entire marriage has been one great big silent treatment. I can't even recall the number of times I've tried to have an important conversation with him about relationship stuff, the kids, or something serious to me (like that lump in my breast 2 years ago), and he'll just look at me without responding, fall asleep in the middle, or walk out of the room while I'm talking.

Anyway, I was going to say that when your marriage is putting you into a position where you have to choose between faking every interaction so that it feels like you're still being a good person, or turning you into a person you don't recognize or like, most people agree its time to go. 

In my case, I'm waiting for as long as I can, because my kids are still very small and I don't want them in their father's unsupervised custody. His parenting skills are horrid, he's unfair in how he hands out "discipline," and I don't want the kids exposed to it. I hate to think that this phase can drag out for years, but I think it's possible.


----------



## Troubledlinda

northernlights said:


> I understand this feeling, I feel this way too sometimes. But the thing is, that just pretending that everything is fine and dandy when it's not is not healthy behavior. Your marriage is miserable, it makes you miserable, and trying to talk about it has gotten you nowhere. You're at the point where you have to save yourself, so to speak.
> 
> This is the phase that's pushing me closer to divorce than any other, I think. I'm in a very similar situation to you, married to an extremely passive-aggressive, extremely immature and self-centered man. He doesn't give me the silent treatment per se, but he engages with me in conversation so infrequently, I think maybe our entire marriage has been one great big silent treatment. I can't even recall the number of times I've tried to have an important conversation with him about relationship stuff, the kids, or something serious to me (like that lump in my breast 2 years ago), and he'll just look at me without responding, fall asleep in the middle, or walk out of the room while I'm talking.
> 
> Anyway, I was going to say that when your marriage is putting you into a position where you have to choose between faking every interaction so that it feels like you're still being a good person, or turning you into a person you don't recognize or like, most people agree its time to go.
> 
> In my case, I'm waiting for as long as I can, because my kids are still very small and I don't want them in their father's unsupervised custody. His parenting skills are horrid, he's unfair in how he hands out "discipline," and I don't want the kids exposed to it. I hate to think that this phase can drag out for years, but I think it's possible.


Yeah I know, I have a 3 year old son as well and the thought of not being with him all the time (as he would spend time with his dad as well, in case we do split) just makes me miserable and gives me the stength to put my own misery aside... I know it is wrong as my son is witnessing this behavior and this is what makes this whole thing so hard... "What is the right thing to do" is the question I've been asking myself for the past year or so... This tears me apart.... 

If it weren't for him, I'm sure I would have left a long time ago and probably even moved to another country to forget about this bad episode of my life... 

This is not new, I remember on our honeymoon, he gave me the ST for something so stupid! on honeymoon!!!! 
He was rubbing/washing my back in the shower (which was sunburnt) and although I asked him to be gentle, he rubbed really hard and said: "ouch, you're hurting me". Guess he didn't like my tone so he ignored me for two days...

This is to say that it started way back!


----------



## northernlights

I know, it's all so obvious in retrospect. I had to beg for sex on my wedding night, and on the honeymoon. You know that never leads anywhere good...


----------



## CallaLily

Your son being in this unhealthy situation should be all the more reason you get out of the situation. He is learning this is
how people should treat each other. Silent Treatments are usually learned behaviors, your husband likely learned it from 
someone in his family and now your son is too, it's just a cycle that needs to be broke. When you are truly tired of it all and 
believe you and your son deserve better then you will make the move to move on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## northernlights

The problem with leaving so you don't model a bad marriage is that Linda's husband is still going to be her son's father, and he's still going to model silent treatment behavior. Likely as her son gets older, he'll be the target of his dad's silent treatment.

At this point, it's a matter of choose your less-than-ideal situation. Limiting time and possibly damaging the relationship with the boy's dad? Modeling a bad marriage and decreasing your chances of finding a fulfilling one? Forcing a child to bear the pain of a divorce (and they WILL find it painful) or suffering yourself?

No good choices. It sucks.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Normally, after an argument like yesterday, he would sleep on the couch but I'm surprised he came to bed (around 2:00 AM)


 That's because you shook him up by confronting him and now he is 1% less confident that he is in control. If you continue on this path of no longer taking his shyte, he will continue to change. My IC told me 'if you stop propping him up by being the one to do all the work, he'll have two choices - either fall over on his face, or stand up and be a better partner.'


----------



## turnera

AVR1962 said:


> Does your husband also change any answers he might have? Like if you ask him why he did something and he gives you an answer, if you were then to ask him a week later the same question would his answer be the same? My husband always has a different answer so you never really get to know him, nothing is concrete as far as his brain (thinking).


 In the book Why Does He Do That?, it explains that they always change things up so that you can never be certain that you can 'fix' things. If he tells you you're bad because your hair is long, and you cut it to please him, he'll either tell you he never said that (and now your hair is short so you're bad) or that you misunderstood him and still got it wrong. Keeps you guessing, keeps you nervous, makes you doubt yourself, so you can never be happy and confident - just the way he wants it. That way, HE is in control, always.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> This is the thing that bothers me, if things aren't going well and we are not able to talk about the problems, how in the world are we supposed to fix them? We all have issues, I'm not perfect, but God knows I want to improve and change the things on my part that contribute to the bad situation.... How am i supposed to do that when my H says he's not happy with me but wwon't tell me why? It is so frustrating!


That's why you need MC. Most likely, you'll reach the point I did, where you say 'either you go to MC or I'm divorcing you.' I'd been ASKING him to go for 20 years and he not only refused, but he pretended I'd never said a word. We couldn't even discuss it, he would tune me out. But when I'd finally had enough, and said I'm leaving if you don't go to therapy, he IMMEDIATELY said ok, I'll go. I will say, though, that I've always known he wants to be married to me, and I'm not sure you have that.


----------



## Troubledlinda

northernlights said:


> The problem with leaving so you don't model a bad marriage is that Linda's husband is still going to be her son's father, and he's still going to model silent treatment behavior. Likely as her son gets older, he'll be the target of his dad's silent treatment.
> 
> At this point, it's a matter of choose your less-than-ideal situation. Limiting time and possibly damaging the relationship with the boy's dad? Modeling a bad marriage and decreasing your chances of finding a fulfilling one? Forcing a child to bear the pain of a divorce (and they WILL find it painful) or suffering yourself?
> 
> No good choices. It sucks.


Exactly, all these situations suck...


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> That's why you need MC. Most likely, you'll reach the point I did, where you say 'either you go to MC or I'm divorcing you.' I'd been ASKING him to go for 20 years and he not only refused, but he pretended I'd never said a word. We couldn't even discuss it, he would tune me out. But when I'd finally had enough, and said I'm leaving if you don't go to therapy, he IMMEDIATELY said ok, I'll go. I will say, though, that I've always known he wants to be married to me, and I'm not sure you have that.


I don't think that would make him budge... I guess he's ok with me leaving (maybe even happy)


----------



## Troubledlinda

northernlights said:


> The problem with leaving so you don't model a bad marriage is that Linda's husband is still going to be her son's father, and he's still going to model silent treatment behavior. Likely as her son gets older, he'll be the target of his dad's silent treatment.
> 
> No good choices. It sucks.


Exactly, he will always be his father and hopefully always be involved in his life so he (son) will see this behavior, whether it is directed at me or somebody else...


----------



## turnera

A lot of men ARE willing to lose everything rather than admit fault. 

You only get one life, linda. Is it your lot in life to spend it miserable? Or should you take a chance and be brave and effect changes? If he's not willing to change with you, well, at least you'll be happy anyway. And trust me, there are millions of men out there who will NOT be abusive like him, who will love and respect you. And maybe even give your son a great role model.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Exactly, he will always be his father and hopefully always be involved in his life so he (son) will see this behavior, whether it is directed at me or somebody else...


 OTOH, if you separate and you make YOUR home warm and inviting and FULL OF LOVE, when he visits his dad he will SEE the difference, and choose love.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> A thought just crossed my mind, what if I was the abuser and he the victim? I know it sounds a bit complicated to understand but what if I was really the one giving him the silent treatment and him, just reacting to it? He seems to be going about his business without looking upset, he comes and goes as he wants... What if I really was the bad guy that he says I am? and not realizing it? Ths is all so complicated...


I always try to consider that. When people discuss their marital problem on this TAM web site, we usually get only one side of the story, and of course it always sounds like the one writing to the forum is always the "good guy" and their spouse is the "bad guy". So, yes, it's possible that you are really a horrible ogre and your husband is an innocent victim.

However, if you really were the abuser and he the victim, then he could tell you that, couldn't he? I'm sure you're not perfect. *But if you were such a horrible person then he could at least tell you what you are doing wrong.* Keep that in mind.


----------



## CallaLily

If your husband doesn't give your son the silent treatment but just you then once again all the more reason to go. Your son can still have a decent relationship with his dad, if you all split. It doesn't mean you should continue to stay and subject yourself to more abuse. You should be able to go out in the world and find someone who treats you better, doesn't shut down and abuse you by not talking to you. If you stay you will never have that opportunity. Your son however, will likely still have a decent relationship with his dad, unless there were to come a time if your husband started to give
him the silent treatment too. Hopefully that will never happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## northernlights

Theseus said:


> I always try to consider that. When people discuss their marital problem on this TAM web site, we usually get only one side of the story, and of course it always sounds like the one writing to the forum is always the "good guy" and their spouse is the "bad guy". So, yes, it's possible that you are really a horrible ogre and your husband is an innocent victim.
> 
> However, if you really were the abuser and he the victim, then he could tell you that, couldn't he? I'm sure you're not perfect. *But if you were such a horrible person then he could at least tell you what you are doing wrong.* Keep that in mind.



Or the MC would be able to point out the true dynamic. 

I had a moment of realization when our MC told me I have really great communication skills. I had so internalized the message that it takes two, and if I just changed myself and tried harder, I could make us better.

It takes two alright. Two willing partners. If I don't have that, it doesn't matter a bit how good my communication skills are.


----------



## Troubledlinda

CallaLily said:


> If your husband doesn't give your son the silent treatment but just you then once again all the more reason to go. Your son can still have a decent relationship with his dad, if you all split. It doesn't mean you should continue to stay and subject yourself to more abuse. You should be able to go out in the world and find someone who treats you better, doesn't shut down and abuse you by not talking to you. If you stay you will never have that opportunity. Your son however, will likely still have a decent relationship with his dad, unless there were to come a time if your husband started to give
> him the silent treatment too. Hopefully that will never happen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for that comment, that is very true... His dad will always be his dad no matter what and they love each other so I doubt that H would want to harm him in any ways (unless he really doesn't find his behavior harmfull and does it naturally even to our boy, at some point)

He does do things sometimes (regarding our son) but I think that is just aimed at me, because he knows how sensitive I am when it comes to our child (what mother isn't)?

For example, during our last vacation. I asked him to give son his bath (he's really never done i before... that's always been my "job" and when I've asked him in the past he would always say that he doesn't know how to (excuse so I would do it myself). So when he was finished, I said thank you, you did a great job (I was really sincere) and he responded: "ok, that's what I was afraid of, now you're going to ask me to do it all the time"...


----------



## Troubledlinda

I am tired of all this... it's been on my mind for I don't know how long... I've spent most of the past four years trying to make things work, thinking, wandering what I could do to make him happy... 

I am lucky to say that I grew up with loving parents (they had their share of problems, which my mom talks about now to help me out I guess). Growing up, I never witnessed fights or ST or abuse of any kind, they did a good job at keeping it between them without affecting us (kids) and so that's the image I have of marriage and what it should be... to this day, they are great friends and I really envy them... I feel sad, that things are turning out this way for me (I know I'm not alone and that a lot people on here are suffering)


----------



## trey69

IMO, a good father is one who is good to his child's mother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> I am tired of all this... it's been on my mind for I don't know how long... I've spent most of the past four years trying to make things work, thinking, wandering what I could do to make him happy...


Linda, this isn't about you, hon, it's about him. It takes 2 people to make a relationship work, and you can't make things work with an abuser. 

Abusers are never happy. The only 'joy' they get is the feeling of power they get from controlling and hurting others.


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## testr72

silent treatment is nothing but emotional abuse. my wife did this in the beginning of our marriage.
i was so fed up i threatened to leave , i expressed my feelings , which you have to do, and explained how silent treatment kills relationships. i emailed her links to sites from therapists explaining what silent treatment does.
you have to talk to him and if he doesnt change or learn to express his feelings toward you in a differenet way then you have leave this abusive relationship.
if you stay you will end up feeling worthless, it will destroy you


----------



## Cosmos

OP, here's another interesting link for you:- The Silent Treatment Emotional Abuse in Relationships/ marriage - how to cope.

In particular:- 
_
"Some victims have noted their abuser becomes notably happier the more worn down and miserable they become. In order to cope, the victim must appreciate that a silent treatment abuser thrives on observing the negative effect they have on their target. Therefore it is necessary to stop “feeding” their desire for control and power.

This means NOT giving them the satisfaction of seeing the negative emotional affects of their immature behaviour. They can derive a great sense of self importance and triumph if you get irate, annoyed, upset, capitulate/apologise, weep or plead with them to talk to you. Starve them of these rewards for their unjust behaviour and they will likely eventually tire of engaging in the silent treatment and revert more quickly than usual to their normal demeanour._"

Also worthy is note is:-
_
"*Important* – If the silent treatment is from a partner who is verbally abusive or physically abusive, rather than acting on the suggestions given here, get help from a professional experienced in such matters. Also get professional advice before acting on these strategies if you believe your partner may gravitate from silence abuse to physical or verbal abuse, even if they have not done this in the past."_


----------



## turnera

Exactly. Which is why I said if he's going to be silent, LET him be invisible. Bring your friends over, bring your kids' friends over, bring instruments over, watch your favorite shows. How do you teach a bully to stop bullying? By removing the victim.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Cosmos said:


> OP, here's another interesting link for you:- The Silent Treatment Emotional Abuse in Relationships/ marriage - how to cope.
> 
> In particular:-
> _
> "Some victims have noted their abuser becomes notably happier the more worn down and miserable they become. In order to cope, the victim must appreciate that a silent treatment abuser thrives on observing the negative effect they have on their target. Therefore it is necessary to stop “feeding” their desire for control and power.
> 
> This means NOT giving them the satisfaction of seeing the negative emotional affects of their immature behaviour. They can derive a great sense of self importance and triumph if you get irate, annoyed, upset, capitulate/apologise, weep or plead with them to talk to you. Starve them of these rewards for their unjust behaviour and they will likely eventually tire of engaging in the silent treatment and revert more quickly than usual to their normal demeanour._"
> 
> Also worthy is note is:-
> _
> "*Important* – If the silent treatment is from a partner who is verbally abusive or physically abusive, rather than acting on the suggestions given here, get help from a professional experienced in such matters. Also get professional advice before acting on these strategies if you believe your partner may gravitate from silence abuse to physical or verbal abuse, even if they have not done this in the past."_


Thank you. I will check out the website. So, my mission now is to get happy and enjoy life without him... and stop making him the center of my world! hmmm, ok! One step at a time, I can do it... After all, I did have a life before I met him


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Exactly. Which is why I said if he's going to be silent, LET him be invisible. Bring your friends over, bring your kids' friends over, bring instruments over, watch your favorite shows. How do you teach a bully to stop bullying? By removing the victim.


Yeah, my son has enough instruments to start a band... will have to stock up on batteries and have those little musicians over  

Feeling positive this evening, prayers, going out with a friend and, body balance class did me good  even though we are still in complete silence here


----------



## turnera

You go, girl!


----------



## Troubledlinda

Cosmos said:


> OP, here's another interesting link for you:- The Silent Treatment Emotional Abuse in Relationships/ marriage - how to cope.
> 
> In particular:-
> _
> "Some victims have noted their abuser becomes notably happier the more worn down and miserable they become. In order to cope, the victim must appreciate that a silent treatment abuser thrives on observing the negative effect they have on their target. Therefore it is necessary to stop “feeding” their desire for control and power.
> 
> This means NOT giving them the satisfaction of seeing the negative emotional affects of their immature behaviour. They can derive a great sense of self importance and triumph if you get irate, annoyed, upset, capitulate/apologise, weep or plead with them to talk to you. Starve them of these rewards for their unjust behaviour and they will likely eventually tire of engaging in the silent treatment and revert more quickly than usual to their normal demeanour._"
> 
> Also worthy is note is:-
> _
> "*Important* – If the silent treatment is from a partner who is verbally abusive or physically abusive, rather than acting on the suggestions given here, get help from a professional experienced in such matters. Also get professional advice before acting on these strategies if you believe your partner may gravitate from silence abuse to physical or verbal abuse, even if they have not done this in the past."_


Oh yeah, now I remember reading this. I even posted on there and they recommanded I come to this forum  ! great webiste :smthumbup:


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> Sorry I don't remember if you separated/divorced or stayed with your spouse but changed your attiude to being happy... can you please refresh my memory.
> 
> My parents are out of town at the moment and will be back soon, so while they are away, I am in the process of *getting "ready"*....


We are still together but we now live by time limited cooling off periods rather than indefinite silent treatment when there is conflict. He struggled with making the change but he has tried real hard, for which I have to give him credit. (Breaking the habit of a life time, learned from childhood is not easy.) And I have made it plain that I WILL NEVER go back to the way it used to be. 

I now know that quite simply the main reason he gave me the silent treatment over and over was because I let him get away with it. When asked he has admitted that life is better now that we don't engage in everlasting silences over "nothing". 

Linda - It's important you continue with getting ready, and please continue to fortify yourself with the positive affirmations (I am worthy etc.)


----------



## turnera

My IC told me to get PostIt notes and put the affirmations on my bathroom mirror, and repeat them to myself every morning and every night, out loud.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> My IC told me to get PostIt notes and put the affirmations on my bathroom mirror, and repeat them to myself every morning and every night, out loud.


Good idea! I should put some up for him as well: "I will talk to my wife, I will be a good husband, I will love and respect my wife...." LOL


----------



## Troubledlinda

When daddy is home, my son is attached to him and only comes to me when he needs something: eat, drink, pee, sleep, bath, etc... the rest of the time he just hangs with dad and sometimes doesn't obey me... really frustrating and daddy loves it! It feels like I have no authority over him when dad is around.


----------



## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> When daddy is home, my son is attached to him and only comes to me when he needs something: eat, drink, pee, sleep, bath, etc... the rest of the time he just hangs with dad and sometimes doesn't obey me... really frustrating and daddy loves it! It feels like I have no authority over him when dad is around.


Yep, there'll be more of that as your son gets older. Besides disobeying his mother, your H is teaching that little guy, right now, how to treat women when he's a man...


----------



## turnera

You'll have to nip the disobeying in the bud. Be calm, yet firm. If he disobeys you, calmly take him away from his dad, take him to his time-out corner and tell him to sit there for 3 minutes (for his years of age); when the 3 minutes are up, go to him, get down on his level, and say "I want you to apologize for ____" (whatever he did) and when he does, you hug him and tell him you love him. (This is from Supernanny. Works every time.)


----------



## Troubledlinda

Cosmos said:


> Yep, there'll be more of that as your son gets older. Besides disobeying his mother, your H is teaching that little guy, right now, how to treat women when he's a man...


----------



## Troubledlinda

So, since we had that "talk/fight" on friday, he hasn't eaten my food... What is he trying to tell me? anyone?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> So, since we had that "talk/fight" on friday, he hasn't eaten my food... What is he trying to tell me? anyone?


He is just being a jerk, plain and simple. Seems to be his MO. Just another thing to try and have control over you about.


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## turnera

You stood up to him about the silent treatment so he had to find a new way to control you and make you doubt yourself. Typical abusive jerk.

Ignore him. When my daughter was young and wouldn't eat my food, I 
would shrug and say 'ok, guess you're gonna be hungry by tomorrow, cos I'm not making anything else. Pass the potatoes, husband.'

Bullies can't be bullies if the victim doesn't participate.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I can hear him in the kitchen, looking for something to eat... he just wont touch what I cooked. This is really draining, I have a headache.


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## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> I can hear him in the kitchen, looking for something to eat... he just wont touch what I cooked. This is really draining, I have a headache.


You really really need to take a stronger approach about all this. You need a game face for when he does these things. You need to be creative on things to say and do when he does these things. You can TEACH him that his petty acts don't work on you any more. But YOU have to be willing to step up. 

Look at it as a competition. Each time he pulls something, pull something back. You hear him rummaging for food, go in there and say 'by the way, I rechecked our budget and I figured that since you're not eating my cooking any more, we're going to save a good $100 (converted) a month. Thanks for helping us save money!' and smile at him and leave the room.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> I can hear him in the kitchen, looking for something to eat... he just wont touch what I cooked. This is really draining, I have a headache.


He's trying to get under your skin, and apparently it's working.

The best thing would be for you to get away from the house. His silent treatment loses all its power if no one is around to "hear" it.


----------



## turnera

Theseus said:


> His silent treatment loses all its power if no one is around to "hear" it.


 Yep.

toddler throwing a funny tantrum - YouTube


----------



## Blondilocks

Has he had himself a key to the house made, yet? If not, next time he decides to come home whenever it suits him, don't open the door.
Seriously, he can't expect you to be at his beck & call and then turn around and act like you don't exist.

As for not eating your cooking, good! All the more for you and the little one. He won't starve so don't even think about it. It is his choice after-all.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> He's trying to get under your skin, and apparently it's working.
> 
> The best thing would be for you to get away from the house. His silent treatment loses all its power if no one is around to "hear" it.


I did stay out of the house most of the weekend... but the hard part is when he is home.

I feel like when come back home, he doubles the dose, to "punish" for leaving. (just a feeling, maybe I read him wrong)


----------



## turnera

Let him try. As soon as he ramps it up to physical, call the cops and have him removed.


----------



## turnera

linda, I'm telling you this because I lived it. I used to describe to people how he would 'punish' me for going to visit my mom. Once my dad and his wife asked me to go to their beach house and help on the construction; he refused. When I got back, he had tried to renovate the garage by himself and a beam fell on him. I got told for 20 years after that that it was MY fault that he got hurt because I was selfish and went 'gallivanting around' by myself all the time.

For 30 years, I put up with this bullshyte. I'm too old for it now. I refuse to put up with it when I know it's utter bullshyte. 

You are going to HAVE to call him out - fight fire with fire - when he does these things, to get him to stop. You don't deserve to feel this bad about life, to hate yourself, to be so unhappy. And it truly IS in your control. You just have to brave yourself to start taking the steps we describe. HE WILL CHANGE once you do, because he has no choice - you will no longer be on your knees begging him to forgive you.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Let him try. As soon as he ramps it up to physical, call the cops and have him removed.


He doesn't get physical, he never has. He just pulls stuff like this no eating your food business... and acting like I am not there...


----------



## turnera

And, as I keep saying...LET HIM!

If your child threw a tantrum and demanded that you pay attention to him...would you? Of course not. Come on, you're smarter than this.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> linda, I'm telling you this because I lived it. I used to describe to people how he would 'punish' me for going to visit my mom. Once my dad and his wife asked me to go to their beach house and help on the construction; he refused. When I got back, he had tried to renovate the garage by himself and a beam fell on him. I got told for 20 years after that that it was MY fault that he got hurt because I was selfish and went 'gallivanting around' by myself all the time.
> 
> For 30 years, I put up with this bullshyte. I'm too old for it now. I refuse to put up with it when I know it's utter bullshyte.
> 
> You are going to HAVE to call him out - fight fire with fire - when he does these things, to get him to stop. You don't deserve to feel this bad about life, to hate yourself, to be so unhappy. And it truly IS in your control. You just have to brave yourself to start taking the steps we describe. HE WILL CHANGE once you do, because he has no choice - you will no longer be on your knees begging him to forgive you.


Sorry to ask, I'm sure i've read it before but I don't remember: "are you still with your spouse or did you separate/divorce?"


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> And, as I keep saying...LET HIM!
> 
> If your child threw a tantrum and demanded that you pay attention to him...would you? Of course not. Come on, you're smarter than this.


Oh I am letting him... I'm not running after him. I just asked him if he was gonna eat and when he said no, I put the food away and went away.. I didn't beg or ask why he didn't want to eat... I know he is doing it on purspose, tomorrow I won't cook, he can eat what he didn't eat today...


----------



## turnera

I am still with him and hating it every day. Unfortunately, he racked up $100,000 in debt, partially in my name, and I'm not prepared to declare bankruptcy and all it entails, so I'm trying to pay down the debt so I can afford to move out. Once I reach that point, I will have the leverage to say I'm done unless you change. I HAVE told him I will be leaving if he doesn't change, and he HAS started going to therapy with me because of it. He's changed somewhat.

But the biggest change has been in ME. Three years ago, I was afraid to say I wanted to leave the house for a few hours by myself. Once I finally started doing that (it was scary!) all sorts of doors started opening for me. I'm finding my voice. Don't be like me. Don't wait 35 years of misery and multiple suicide attempts. Do the right thing for your son.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> I am still with him and hating it every day. Unfortunately, he racked up $100,000 in debt, partially in my name, and I'm not prepared to declare bankruptcy and all it entails, so I'm trying to pay down the debt so I can afford to move out. Once I reach that point, I will have the leverage to say I'm done unless you change. I HAVE told him I will be leaving if he doesn't change, and he HAS started going to therapy with me because of it. He's changed somewhat.
> 
> But the biggest change has been in ME. Three years ago, I was afraid to say I wanted to leave the house for a few hours by myself. Once I finally started doing that (it was scary!) all sorts of doors started opening for me. I'm finding my voice. Don't be like me. Don't wait 35 years of misery and multiple suicide attempts. Do the right thing for your son.


And you have children?


----------



## Wise Fairy

TL and everyone I hate that we have all gone through this torment, the silent treatment is the worst. My 4 years of the emotional abuse was worse than anything I have experienced they know just how to make you feel worthless, sad part is though I didn't see it until the end when I evaluated my relationship. 

He said the reason for the breakup was that I talked to people, I thought that was crazy and why didn't I get mad at him instead I listed to all of his crappy reasons and it wasn't until I left that I realized how he had abused me emotionally over the years. All the leaving and walking out the door then coming back 1 week later I should of told him to take a hike. He always had a way of making it my fault even when we split he said to take a good look at myself just like yours said to you TL. 

I didn't feel like this before I met him I was confident, happy was my middle name, I knew who I was, I liked myself now I feel just a shell of myself and so weak inside. 

I am trying to get better day by day but do go on that roller coaster ride of feeling not bad about myself just the lack of confidence I once had has gone, to the point where I am a bit of a hermit but I am pushing myself to get out. 

Turnera was it you who said about the hair thing I had to laugh a bit because that's exactly what they do and say bad things, in my instance my hair is strawberry blonde and he always said you know it's the same as an orangutan I am like wtf. Then the last comment to me on his couch was you don't have any grey hair. This was the same day he dumped me, I realized he was comparing me to himself and his mother that both have grey hair and I am sure he was sad because his hair turned grey early he always and still thinks his hair is brown and it's not and he thinks his eyes are hazel and they are blue lol! so I knew we saw things differently. 

So there is no pleasing them unfortunately, I was kind, loving, trustworthy, cooked did all the loving things I could to please that man but nothing was good enough. 

I had 4 years with the EA and some of you have had so much longer like Tunera, I just send my love and hugs to you because I feel for you so much, and I should be thankful that I am out, even if I do miss him. 

They are N and I didn't even know about this while I was with him, it's like the light bulb went off and I am a reasonably intelligent woman. 

I do feel alone but I have good friends that are slowly coming back into my life and they have shared their stories too because some of the ones that were married are no longer together so life doesn't surprise me anymore and I don't have that many expectations anymore only will try to find some for myself. 

The real sad thing is that they actually thing they are having normal behavior an responses, but I know it's learned behavior from other people in their lives, in my case it was definitely from his business like mother and absent father that had no voice. 

Just very sad, I hope I don't become a crazy cat lady though lol! 

Peace to all


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> And you have children?


 We have a 23 year old daughter, who is amazing.

I used to say I was staying til she graduated high school. Then the money issues started, and I got to the point where I was willing to start taking charge of my life. 

DD23 has told me, though, that she wishes I would have left him long ago, as living with him has caused her a lot of issues.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

turnera said:


> We have a 23 year old daughter, who is amazing.
> 
> I used to say I was staying til she graduated high school. Then the money issues started, and I got to the point where I was willing to start taking charge of my life.
> 
> DD23 has told me, though, that she wishes I would have left him long ago, as living with him has caused her a lot of issues.


Turnera, filing bankruptcy to leave my second husband (the one with all the issues we are discussing here) was one of the toughest but most worth it decisions I have made with my life. My credit has been rebuilt and I no longer have the a$$hole in my life. WORTH IT!!!!!


----------



## Troubledlinda

Wise Fairy said:


> Turnera was it you who said about the hair thing I had to laugh a bit because that's exactly what they do and say bad things, in my instance my hair is strawberry blonde and he always said you know it's the same as an orangutan I am like wtf. Then the last comment to me on his couch was you don't have any grey hair.


This is funny! He makes comments about my hair too. I've pretty much had long hair since I was a child (I think I cut it twice in my life, other than trims of course, one time to "please" him). I don't usually wear it down cause it gets in my face and becomes annoying but I know it looks nice down and everytime I do wear it down I get loads of compliments (I guess people find it different)... well H doesn't like it down and doesn't like it long! He told me once that the pieces of hair hanging on both sides of my face, make me look like a dog (as it looks like I have dog ears hanging on my sides)... he makes it sound like a joke and would get upset if I didn't find it funny but then again if I try to make similar jokes about him, I get punished with ST!


----------



## Troubledlinda

H looks the other way when I get dressed, and has no interest in my body but doesn't want me to show it either... "your pants are too tight, your skirt is too shirt, your top is showing too much cleavage, walk in front of me cause those guys are checking your a¤¤." What is that all about????


----------



## Troubledlinda

Wise Fairy said:


> The real sad thing is that they actually thing they are having normal behavior an responses, but I know it's learned behavior from other people in their lives, in my case it was definitely from his business like mother and absent father that had no voice.


Are you saying that they find their behavior normal and don't realize that they are hurting people? This is the only way they know how to deal/handle whatever situation that upset them? I'm a bit confused...


----------



## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> So, since we had that "talk/fight" on friday, he hasn't eaten my food... What is he trying to tell me? anyone?


He's telling you "How dare you stand up for yourself. I'm going to turn up the heat until you melt!"



Troubledlinda said:


> Are you saying that they find their behavior normal and don't realize that they are hurting people? This is the only way they know how to deal/handle whatever situation that upset them? I'm a bit confused...


They believe that the whole world is out to get them and that everything that happens to them is the fault of others. They feel totally justified in hurting others... An abuser lacks the capacity to look at themselves...



Troubledlinda said:


> H looks the other way when I get dressed, and has no interest in my body but doesn't want me to show it either... "your pants are too tight, your skirt is too shirt, your top is showing too much cleavage, walk in front of me cause those guys are checking your a¤¤." What is that all about????


It is designed to make you feel bad about yourself.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Cosmos said:


> He's telling you "How dare you stand up for yourself. I'm going to turn up the heat until you melt!"


 the same way this morning when he left without a word and I said: "byyye, have a nice day"... didn't even look at me, just walked out almost banging the door! What in the world... this really baffles me.


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## Troubledlinda

It really hurts because I am still emotionally attached to him, I do love him despite all this... I mean everyone gets into marriage hoping for a happy ending and the thought of my marriage failing is really really painful.... but at the same time I find this behavior so ridiculous that I want to laugh.


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## Troubledlinda

Cosmos said:


> He's telling you "How dare you stand up for yourself. I'm going to turn up the heat until you melt!"


So the more I stand up for myself the more of this I'm gonna get? So what must I do then? This is a lose - lose situation then.


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## Cosmos

Troubledlinda said:


> It really hurts because I am still emotionally attached to him, I do love him despite all this... I mean everyone gets into marriage hoping for a happy ending and the thought of my marriage failing is really really painful.... but at the same time I find this behavior so ridiculous that I want to laugh.


It isn't unusual for victims to love their abusers. Even people who have been kidnapped and abused can form a 'love' bond with their abuser... It is a survival technique and is called 'Stockholm Syndrome," and you can read about it here: Stockholm Syndrome: The Psychological Mystery of Loving an Abuser, Page 1


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## turnera

> H looks the other way when I get dressed, and has no interest in my body but doesn't want me to show it either... "your pants are too tight, your skirt is too shirt, your top is showing too much cleavage, walk in front of me cause those guys are checking your a¤¤." What is that all about????


When you read Why Does He Do That? you will understand. It is 100% about control. You aren't a wife to him, a woman. YOU ARE A POSSESSION.


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## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> So the more I stand up for myself the more of this I'm gonna get? So what must I do then? This is a lose - lose situation then.


One of three things will happen. He will either dig in his heels and ramp up the pressure to put you back in your place - maybe even bringing violence into the situation - or he will realize that you're NOT going back to the doormat you were and he'll end up adjusting himself to the new you. The third option is that, as you get more confident in yourself, learn to love yourself, you'll realize you don't have to put up with this shyte because there are millions of men out there who ARE NOT ABUSIVE and who WILL give you the marriage you dreamed about and you'll take your son and leave him and go find a good man.


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## turnera

Cosmos said:


> It isn't unusual for victims to love their abusers. Even people who have been kidnapped and abused can form a 'love' bond with their abuser... It is a survival technique and is called 'Stockholm Syndrome," and you can read about it here: Stockholm Syndrome: The Psychological Mystery of Loving an Abuser, Page 1


 The worse he treats you, the more you 'love' him because the more you need - worship - his approval. This isn't love, linda. It's desperation. A therapist will help you understand this.


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## turnera

What are you doing to find a job?


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## Cosmos

> Originally Posted by Troubledlinda View Post
> So the more I stand up for myself the more of this I'm gonna get? So what must I do then? This is a lose - lose situation then.


Linda, life with an abuser is always a lose / lose situation. The only way you can win is by leaving.

Rather than focusing on what makes him tick and ways to appease him, rather put all your energies into finding a way to leave him and start a happier, healthier life. Where there's a will, there's always a way...


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## turnera

And it's always possible that, once you leave, he will hit his rock bottom and come out determined to make it up to you.

But he will NEVER realize that with you there, continuing to take it. He has no reason to.


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## Troubledlinda

Things haven't changed a bit here, I could say they've gone worse... So I booked myself a plane ticket and will go on a little trip to europe to get a breath of fresh air!


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## turnera

Good for you.


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## Theseus

Be strong, and please keep us updated if anything changes.


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## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Be strong, and please keep us updated if anything changes.


Yes, will keep you posted. I'm only leaving in about a week...
I guess I'm starting to get used to this silence... I feel like I'm alone with my son (In a way I guess I am)... it's really a strange feeling. Have never experienced anything like this in life before (not that I've been married before) and never heard of anyone completaly ignoring their spouse for 47 days, while living under the same roof and sleeping in the same bed... (Until I came tp this forum and read all your comments on the ST)


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## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Good for you.


Baby steps


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## turnera

That's how you learn, linda. You'll be fine.


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## Troubledlinda

Most articles and forums I read on the silent treatment talk about how to deal with silent treatments that last 2, 3, 4 days to maybe 1week. I don't often read about ST that last up to 55 days like I'm on right now. 55 days! Should I consider this a "separation" although we live in the same house? 

He's gone out of town for a conference for 5 days so I get to "breath" and the day after he comes back I go to Europe for a week....


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## Caribbean Man

Troubledlinda said:


> Most articles and forums I read on the silent treatment talk about how to deal with silent treatments that last 2, 3, 4 days to maybe 1week. I don't often read about ST that last up to 55 days like I'm on right now. 55 days! Should I consider this a "separation" although we live in the same house?
> 
> He's gone out of town for a conference for 5 days so I get to "breath" and the day after he comes back I go to Europe for a week....


Yes, his behaviour is indeed a bit odd, even though it's abusive.
Maybe whilst you are back in Europe you might be able to have a little peace of mind and a fresh perspective on things?

Will you be taking your son with you?

Best wishes on your holiday trip!


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## CallaLily

Linda, I really hope you are able to get out of this situation soon for good, you deserve better!


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## testr72

Troubledlinda said:


> Most articles and forums I read on the silent treatment talk about how to deal with silent treatments that last 2, 3, 4 days to maybe 1week. I don't often read about ST that last up to 55 days like I'm on right now. 55 days! Should I consider this a "separation" although we live in the same house?
> 
> He's gone out of town for a conference for 5 days so I get to "breath" and the day after he comes back I go to Europe for a week....


55 days of silent treatment is nothing but abuse. This is a sick man, he needs psycho therapy.
Leave this man now and save yourself. Think about your child, is this how you want him growing up?

My wife would give me silent treatment for up to 5 days so I know how you feel. It was tearing me apart inside, slowly eating me away. It is abusive and controlling behavior.

I threatened to leave if this would not stop. Now she doesnt do this anymore so as you can see theres hope if you stand your ground and set the limit.


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## turnera

You realize, right, that if you stay, your son will grow up to do the exact same thing he is doing, to HIS wife? 

There is no reason to be married at this point, no matter how much you 'love' him. You are complicit in the harm, at this point.


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## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> There is no reason to be married at this point, no matter how much you 'love' him. You are complicit in the harm, at this point.


I guess you are right... I don't even think that we could ever go back to being "normal"... it's just gone too far to ever be "normal" again... Maybe he feels the same way, that's why he's not making an effort.... 

Oh he did talk to me this AM before leaving for his out of town trip... He asked me for a small lock for his suitcase at 5:30AM :sleeping:

I'll be gone nest week and wont make any contact while I'm away. My son will be staying with my folks so I won't need to be calling him for news.


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## Troubledlinda

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes, his behaviour is indeed a bit odd, even though it's abusive.
> Maybe whilst you are back in Europe you might be able to have a little peace of mind and a fresh perspective on things?
> 
> Will you be taking your son with you?
> 
> Best wishes on your holiday trip!


Leaving my son with my parents. Need the time alone to think straight.... On my return, we'll have to have a talk... Maybe call a "family meeting" and inform them of what has been going on.


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## crisis1008

My husband used to give me the silent treatment quite frequently. The longest stent was a period of silent treatment lasting three weeks. It was agony. I too cried and begged for him to tell me what I had done wrong so I could make it right. His response would always be "The fact that you don't know it was is scary. You really have issues." It would kill me. I would beg him over and over to love me. I was nothing for him to look me in the eyes and tell me that he wanted to knock my teeth in. I saw therapists on my own for several years. Each one would tell me that I was being seriously abused. They would tell me that it was not ethical for them to tell me to leave my husband, but informed me that I needed to re-evaluate my situation. 

After 10 years of dealing with many forms of abuse by my husband, I finally snapped and left him. We were separated for 10 months and he went to therapy on his own for 8 of them. Initially, I did not believe him when he said that he had changed. He was verbally taking responsibility for the things he had done to me. He admitted to everything and said that it has been very hard to hear and accept that he is an abusive husband, but that he now recognized it. Inevitably, I moved back home. The first couple of months were great, but some things were subtly reverting back to the way they used to be. My husband is very cunning and was laying the ground work. All of a sudden he would begin talking about the things that happened in the past, but minimizing them and saying things like "We both made some mistakes." He has completely recanted many things he said to get me to come back home. He has been trying to convince me for the last three plus years that what he says happened is reality. Because of how abrasive he can be, in most cases I will not correct him. I just let it slide until a horrible argument erupts because I feel the need to stand up for myself, at which time I remind him of the truth of our past. It typically ends in my begging for forgiveness and telling him I did not mean it. But, I did. Some days are good, some days are bad. I do know however, that he does know the truth. I can say that the separation did do some good. He now knows that I will leave and that the next time may be the last. My being gone for 10 months was a real shock to him.

I really hope you can somehow find some happiness in your marriage or get out. You should at least be seeking help from a professional.


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## Troubledlinda

crisis1008 said:


> My husband used to give me the silent treatment quite frequently. The longest stent was a period of silent treatment lasting three weeks. It was agony. I too cried and begged for him to tell me what I had done wrong so I could make it right. His response would always be "The fact that you don't know it was is scary. You really have issues." It would kill me. I would beg him over and over to love me. I was nothing for him to look me in the eyes and tell me that he wanted to knock my teeth in. I saw therapists on my own for several years. Each one would tell me that I was being seriously abused. They would tell me that it was not ethical for them to tell me to leave my husband, but informed me that I needed to re-evaluate my situation.
> 
> After 10 years of dealing with many forms of abuse by my husband, I finally snapped and left him. We were separated for 10 months and he went to therapy on his own for 8 of them. Initially, I did not believe him when he said that he had changed. He was verbally taking responsibility for the things he had done to me. He admitted to everything and said that it has been very hard to hear and accept that he is an abusive husband, but that he now recognized it. Inevitably, I moved back home. The first couple of months were great, but some things were subtly reverting back to the way they used to be. My husband is very cunning and was laying the ground work. All of a sudden he would begin talking about the things that happened in the past, but minimizing them and saying things like "We both made some mistakes." He has completely recanted many things he said to get me to come back home. He has been trying to convince me for the last three plus years that what he says happened is reality. Because of how abrasive he can be, in most cases I will not correct him. I just let it slide until a horrible argument erupts because I feel the need to stand up for myself, at which time I remind him of the truth of our past. It typically ends in my begging for forgiveness and telling him I did not mean it. But, I did. Some days are good, some days are bad. I do know however, that he does know the truth. I can say that the separation did do some good. He now knows that I will leave and that the next time may be the last. My being gone for 10 months was a real shock to him.
> 
> I really hope you can somehow find some happiness in your marriage or get out. You should at least be seeking help from a professional.


Thanks for sharing your story. 
I really do feel like I'm the crazy one sometimes, thinking that: "He can't be that cruel", "I'm overreacting", "I'm the one maybe giving him the ST"... all crazy thoughts go through my head. 

To be honest, in the past four years, I have thought of leaving him but have always set a "next time he does this" or "I'll wait till after the holidays" or "let's give it one last try" and I'm still here and this time it's been 55 days... the ST started with 1 day at a time and over the years, the periods of silence have been gradually extended. 

You're lucky your husband agreed to seek help and came back to be with you. Honestly, I do't think mine would either see a therapist (he's told me time and time again that he has no issues and if I want this marriage to work I better go seek help for myself) nor would he come after me... I'm sure he would let me go without a fight (I might be wrong but that's the feeling I get), which you would think would make me wander why I'm trying to be with someone who wouldn't fight for me... I know, it sounds silly. 

I wish I could get in his head and take a look at what he's thinking and try to understand why he's doing this... 

I have my ups and downs and as the days go by I realize that something drastic needs to happen for a change to occur...


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## Jellybeans

Troubledlinda said:


> Most articles and forums I read on the silent treatment talk about how to deal with silent treatments that last 2, 3, 4 days to maybe 1week. I don't often read about ST that last up to 55 days like I'm on right now. 55 days! Should I consider this a "separation" although we live in the same house?


Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. In my situation, each silent treatment would get longer.

It is emotionally abusive. It's also a very unhealthy relationship dynamic.


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## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> You're lucky your husband agreed to seek help and came back to be with you. Honestly, I do't think mine would either see a therapist (he's told me time and time again that he has no issues and if I want this marriage to work I better go seek help for myself) nor would he come after me... I'm sure he would let me go without a fight (I might be wrong but that's the feeling I get), which you would think would make me wander why I'm trying to be with someone who wouldn't fight for me... I know, it sounds silly.


Actually Linda, she ISNT lucky, because it was a false front. All it took was her going back to him for him to slide right back into the same behavior. She never should have gone back. They are liars and fakers, and the sooner both you and Crisis accept it, the sooner you can get out and move on to a real life without manipulation. Its a pattern, and you can be stuck there forever in that misery with every "what if" and "next time." Trust me, I KNOW!


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## Ellie5

Troubledlinda (and anyone else subjected to ST) - so feel for you and your situation, must be incredibly difficult for you. We always still care so much to have things made right because we know the man they could be. 

My H gave me the ST for 2 weeks and it was hell. Now the most time is about a day. Not being the audience helps, I told him if he ever pulled that stunt again I'd use it as an opportunity to go on holiday or stay with the folks. I really hope you have a chance to breathe and get the perspective you need whilst away (and anything else you need) to move forward, whichever route that is.


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## turnera

In other words, Ellie used the strength and control she's had all along. And it worked. He treated her badly, and he got a consequence. Same thing you could be doing.


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## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> In other words, Ellie used the strength and control she's had all along. And it worked. He treated her badly, and he got a consequence. Same thing you could be doing.


Let's see what this little trip does, even though one week is pretty short and probably nothing for someone who is able to ignore me for almost 2 months while in the same house and same bed...


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## crisis1008

Trust me, Linda. He wants you to believe that he would not come after you. If you knew what I know, you would pray he doesn't. My husband did not willing go to therapy with me. He said the exact same things your husband has said to you. He went with me to my therapist before I left him because my therapist requested to meet him and he said he wanted to meet this quack. my husband said that he would not come after me. Instead, he followed just about my every move. He hounded me like crazy.

Linda, I am not sure I made the right choice in going back to my husband. I do love him very much as sick as that may seem to some. However, since I have gone back to him I have been called horrific names, been minimized, been given the silent treatment, been talked over frequently, words constantly twisted, no help in the house, giving husband more money than I should, and convinced to give-up the idea of having children. But, I get sex on national holidays and he smiles like a cute little boy when he wants me to bake cookies or something, so I guess that makes it all okay. I hope you get the sarcasm in this post, Linda. It is not all good. As a matter of fact, the only things that have really changed for the better is, he doesn't call me names as often as he used to.


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## crisis1008

Oh and he does not constantly tell me to get out, because he fears I may not return. If I do not return, than what will others think of him. I believe that is what it all boils down to in the end. How do the other members of our society view him. Screw what his wife thinks.


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## Troubledlinda

crisis1008 said:


> Trust me, Linda. He wants you to believe that he would not come after you. If you knew what I know, you would pray he doesn't. My husband did not willing go to therapy with me. He said the exact same things your husband has said to you. He went with me to my therapist before I left him because my therapist requested to meet him and he said he wanted to meet this quack. my husband said that he would not come after me. Instead, he followed just about my every move. He hounded me like crazy.
> 
> Linda, I am not sure I made the right choice in going back to my husband. I do love him very much as sick as that may seem to some. However, since I have gone back to him I have been called horrific names, been minimized, been given the silent treatment, been talked over frequently, words constantly twisted, no help in the house, giving husband more money than I should, and convinced to give-up the idea of having children. But, I get sex on national holidays and he smiles like a cute little boy when he wants me to bake cookies or something, so I guess that makes it all okay. I hope you get the sarcasm in this post, Linda. It is not all good. As a matter of fact, the only things that have really changed for the better is, he doesn't call me names as often as he used to.


Ok I guess I didn't get this from your first post. I thought that things were better for you... 

You mention giving up the idea of having children... I did too. We have a 3 year old son and had agreed (when we got married) that we would have 3 and close together (like 18 to 24 months apart) so they could grow up together but talking about having the second one has lead to many many disagreements and silent treatments (a bit hard to make a baby when we have sex once in a blue moon).... once he even said :"you can't even take care of one and now you want a 2nd one"? I dont know where he got the impression that I couldn't handle one, since I do everything and he does almost nothing to help with our son.... Oh well.


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## Ellie5

Linda are you frightened of him? or frightened of his reactions and responses? I was like that for a while with my H (often when there's conflict he's useless with communication so would shut down or shut himself out) so you stay calm and quiet to keep the peace - but it doesn't always work - (you feel yourself shrivelling inside having your self-esteem trampled out of you). 

I ended up looking him straight in the eye, blood boiling, and told him I could see straight through him. It's a huge lack of emotional maturity on their part. 

Is there another room you could sleep in whilst you are in the same house? Detaching (or doing your best to) will help your sanity. Ignoring you for 2 months while in the same house - no wonder you feel crazy - that's undoubtedly taken a great big bashing to your self-confidence. I would have stopped cooking, cleaning, doing ANYTHING for the miserable toad if he kept that up. He's feeding on your fear. 

One way I dealt with my H when he trotted out the ST was to treat him like a child - literally see him as a child - you're the adult. You also don't need him. We're with our partners because we want to be, not because we need them. And you certainly don't need him. I told myself I needed to stop caring so much, fake it 'til you make it - focus ALL your energies all you and your child, without one guilty bone about bit. Notice when you start feeling down and how often he's in your head, piling on the negatives.

You're so much better than this.


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## Ellie5

Crisis I hear you! Put downs, put downs! That's their insecurity speaking.


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## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda are you frightened of him? or frightened of his reactions and responses? I was like that for a while with my H (often when there's conflict he's useless with communication so would shut down or shut himself out) so you stay calm and quiet to keep the peace - but it doesn't always work - (you feel yourself shrivelling inside having your self-esteem trampled out of you).
> 
> I ended up looking him straight in the eye, blood boiling, and told him I could see straight through him. It's a huge lack of emotional maturity on their part.
> 
> Is there another room you could sleep in whilst you are in the same house? Detaching (or doing your best to) will help your sanity. Ignoring you for 2 months while in the same house - no wonder you feel crazy - that's undoubtedly taken a great big bashing to your self-confidence. I would have stopped cooking, cleaning, doing ANYTHING for the miserable toad if he kept that up. He's feeding on your fear.
> 
> One way I dealt with my H when he trotted out the ST was to treat him like a child - literally see him as a child - you're the adult. You also don't need him. We're with our partners because we want to be, not because we need them. And you certainly don't need him. I told myself I needed to stop caring so much, fake it 'til you make it - focus ALL your energies all you and your child, without one guilty bone about bit. Notice when you start feeling down and how often he's in your head, piling on the negatives.
> 
> You're so much better than this.


Yes, Ellie5, I am afraid of him and his reactions... I walk on eggshells all the time and make sure not to say anything to upset him. I basically have to accept everything he does even when I don't agree just to avoid upsetting him.... There is never any compromise on his part.

I do still cook and clean and all that jazz, guess I'm trying to be "blameless". When he gets home he helps himself. If I'm in the living room when he gets in, he'll eat in the kitchen... If I'm in the bedroom he'll chill in the living room... 

I thought of sleeping in my son's room but then what example would I be giving him? "Mommy is sleeping with me... why?"

I guess I am slowly detaching from him... It hurst but not as much as it used to... the part that saddens me the most about leaving is that my son will be growing up with separate parents (I know that being in an abusive environment is not healthy for him but he doesn't understand that....) he wants dad and he wants mom.... and that breaks my heart. 

For me? yes I will miss him, yes I will think of him... yes I love him but I won't miss this treatment... i wont miss the ST, I wont miss the lack of affection....


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## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Troubledlinda (and anyone else subjected to ST) - so feel for you and your situation, must be incredibly difficult for you. We always still care so much to have things made right because we know the man they could be.
> 
> My H gave me the ST for 2 weeks and it was hell. Now the most time is about a day. Not being the audience helps, I told him if he ever pulled that stunt again I'd use it as an opportunity to go on holiday or stay with the folks. I really hope you have a chance to breathe and get the perspective you need whilst away (and anything else you need) to move forward, whichever route that is.


Do you have children? How long have you been married? 
So he went from giving 2 weeks of ST to a day at a time of ST? Just by telling him that you would take this opportunity to go on holiday or stay with folks? What other tactics did you use? 

This sounds like a success story


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## Ellie5

Linda do you think he would physically hurt you?

I tested my fear of my husband's response by confronting him. I tried every single darn way of getting through to him until I finally realized my happiness and emotional health needed to be at the top of the list (we don't have kids).

You sound like you've had all of your own stuffing kicked out of you - and he's slowly chipped away any confidence you may have had.

Why try to be blameless? who cares? you're looking after a man who treats you like dirt. He knows he can get away with it because you're allowing it by doing nothing about it. If you're still taking care of his meals and laundry, you're caring for him - how is he caring for you? Come out and ask him how he's caring for you.

I ache for you because I totally understand this (not to the extent he's taken it, but I do understand).

Take a big, hard, look at your own fear and confront it. What is the worst that could happen by standing up to him a bit more often? Keep upsetting him, let him get angry, let him stomp, slam doors, meanwhile you stay calm - just don't put up with it! It's really hard to pretend it doesn't bother you but the type of men who deal out this rubbish are insecure, emotionally immature little boys.

Make decisions for yourself - you can trade his behavior and tell him exactly what you're doing - "if you continue with x, y and z, it's not worth my own time to be doing x, y or z for you". One phrase I've often used with my own H is "if you don't like it, TOUGH" - if they're going to act like children, they get treated like children. End of.

I could never love a man who didn't talk to me for 2 months. What is it about him that you love him for? can you clarify that for yourself?

Linda I wish you loved yourself more. I so hope that when you are away you muster the strength to find a hell of a lot more regard for your own well-being and happiness. 

Please keep writing and letting us know about your progress. Care less about him, more about YOU.


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## crisis1008

Oh, God the eggshells. I still walk on eggshells from time to time. What has made things a little better for me is that I talk back more. I used to just beg my husband to please not call me names, please don't hurt me. Now I try to stand up for myself and tell him that I am not going to allow him to call me names. It does not always work, but sometimes he does shut up altogether now. It sounds wrong, but I try to point out his flaws now in response to his pointing out mine. Which is one of the reasons he says he is giving me the silent treatment now. You should read the thread I just posted today. It is quite comical.

I have been with my husband since I was 19, and am now 34. I always wanted a baby of my own and this was supposed to be the plan. There is a long story behind this as I believe he has tried to prevent me from having a baby (he claims otherwise). I raised both of his daughters from the time they were 14 and almost 5. Their mothers were not exactly around for many years. Neither of his daughters amounted to much of anything so last year my husband began crying as he finally told me that he did not think he could go through raising another child. He said that if he had it to do all over again, he would have never had any children. What could I do? I certainly would never force the man that I love to have a baby with me. It would only result in his resenting me and the baby. I agreed to not have children. It hurts everyday that I agreed to this. I can't really take it back now. Although I have never told either of them, I have secret resentments toward him and the youngest stepdaughter because of this. I did not want my family to hate my husband so I lied to everyone and told them that I was physically unable to carry children due to a medical condition I have. Now, I am even afraid to try anymore as I am very close to that age group where it becomes dangerous for the mother and baby, and the odds of the baby having down-syndrome will have increased. I do feel like this was stolen from me. Although, to be fair, I could have refused to go along with it in the end. Not that most of my years hadn't already been stolen. He refused to have sex with me even when we went on clomid to try to get pregnant in the past. What a waste of expensive hormones and horrible cramps.

I do see a few differences in our husbands though, Linda. My husband does not care if I see him changing, he does not leave the room if I am in it (unless he is mad at me or giving me the silent treatment), and while some say in a sick way my husband does love me.

I hate to say this Linda, and I know its gonna sting, but I don't see your husband as having any love for you. He appears to actually have some sort of hatred toward you. I know that this may be the pot calling the kettle black, but I think your husband is very sick. I want more for you and your children. I have never told anybody to do this, but I really want you to leave him and start anew. Your son probably knows more than you think and will completely understand as he gets older. My youngest stepdaughter came to me when she was 12 and told me that she wanted me to leave her daddy. I was shocked. She told me that she did not want to lose me as her mommy, but that she did not want her daddy to be mean to me any more.


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## Ellie5

Linda don't get me wrong, we still have issues (his inability to be social with my family for starters).

I told him very matter-of-factly that I saw straight through it. 

Eg it went something like this:

"I see straight through what you're doing. Look it up if you need to - it's called Silent Treatment. This is a form of emotional abuse and I will not tolerate it. I am your wife and will not accept this behaviour from a man who is supposed to love me. If you choose to continue to treat me this way I will use that as an opportunity to spend more time with my own friends and family and may even go away without telling you. I'm not your slave, nurse, housekeeper or slave".

Then walk into another room. Keep your dignity but you MUST stand by what you say and follow through. Be COLD. DISTANT. Full of self-respect. You don't have to be nasty but don't give anything away. Make him wonder what you're thinking.

Look him in the eye when you tell him. I became pretty non-chalant (on the outside) to his behaviour and went away for a weekend.

You ARE the bigger person here. 

I know if / when it's about to come on as he'll take himself off to the bedroom in the evening if we've had a falling out - burrowing himself in a cave. I don't do ANYTHING. Don't ask questions, don't seek him out, don't ask if he's hungry. Just carry on with your usual business - like you're breezy and don't care. If he leaves for work in the morning without saying goodbye don't bat an eyelid. Ignore it.

Put it this way - what if you suddenly found a new hobby that took up more of your time? whether that's indoors or outdoors, just get on with it so there's less attention on him and more on you doing something that makes you happy.

Don't wait for him to change or make you happy - show him a change in you however and he'll notice. Get busy girl.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda do you think he would physically hurt you?
> 
> I tested my fear of my husband's response by confronting him. I tried every single darn way of getting through to him until I finally realized my happiness and emotional health needed to be at the top of the list (we don't have kids).
> 
> You sound like you've had all of your own stuffing kicked out of you - and he's slowly chipped away any confidence you may have had.
> 
> Why try to be blameless? who cares? you're looking after a man who treats you like dirt. He knows he can get away with it because you're allowing it by doing nothing about it. If you're still taking care of his meals and laundry, you're caring for him - how is he caring for you? Come out and ask him how he's caring for you.
> 
> I ache for you because I totally understand this (not to the extent he's taken it, but I do understand).
> 
> Take a big, hard, look at your own fear and confront it. What is the worst that could happen by standing up to him a bit more often? Keep upsetting him, let him get angry, let him stomp, slam doors, meanwhile you stay calm - just don't put up with it! It's really hard to pretend it doesn't bother you but the type of men who deal out this rubbish are insecure, emotionally immature little boys.
> 
> Make decisions for yourself - you can trade his behavior and tell him exactly what you're doing - "if you continue with x, y and z, it's not worth my own time to be doing x, y or z for you". One phrase I've often used with my own H is "if you don't like it, TOUGH" - if they're going to act like children, they get treated like children. End of.
> 
> I could never love a man who didn't talk to me for 2 months. What is it about him that you love him for? can you clarify that for yourself?
> 
> Linda I wish you loved yourself more. I so hope that when you are away you muster the strength to find a hell of a lot more regard for your own well-being and happiness.
> 
> Please keep writing and letting us know about your progress. Care less about him, more about YOU.


Honestly, I don't think he would physically hurt me. 
I'm crying as I'm reading your post (guess I needed to hear it)... I know this is all wrong and I feel stupid for allowing it to happen... If this was happening to a friend or sister, I would tell them to leave... Why am I allowing it? Why am I letting this man rip me apart from the inside out? I feel so insecure, so low, so unable to pack and get out and move on with my life.... 

My fears:
- What will I tell my son for breaking his family? 
- What if I end up alone?
- Is this really abuse? 
- What if he changes and then I regret leaving him?
- What will people think? 
- I feel like I failed
- Will I be able to take care of my son on my own?
- who will I use as male role models for him? 

OMG this is so hard....


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda don't get me wrong, we still have issues (his inability to be social with my family for starters).
> 
> 
> Put it this way - what if you suddenly found a new hobby that took up more of your time? whether that's indoors or outdoors, just get on with it so there's less attention on him and more on you doing something that makes you happy.
> 
> Don't wait for him to change or make you happy - show him a change in you however and he'll notice. Get busy girl.


I joined a fitness class about a month ago and go to it every morning... makes me feel good!


----------



## Troubledlinda

crisis1008 said:


> I hate to say this Linda, and I know its gonna sting, but I don't see your husband as having any love for you. He appears to actually have some sort of hatred toward you. I know that this may be the pot calling the kettle black, but I think your husband is very sick. .


I think you are right, I don't think he loves me... he never says he does anyways an when away he never says he misses me... once I asked him if he loved and his response was: 
"I could love you more or I could love you less, it all depens on you". I will never forget this line! Every time I think of it, it chocks me like it did the day he said it...


----------



## Troubledlinda

What if I sent him links to some of the articles I read on ST? Just so he knows that I figured out his game?


----------



## crisis1008

1. What will you tell your son if you don't break up this family. You know, you are responsible for keeping your son in a healthy environment.

2. I had the same fear, but despite my baggage there were plenty of men knocking on my door when I left my husband. I promise you, this will not occur. Although, you will need some alone time when you finally separate from him in order to clear your head and deal with the residual affects of being the victim of abuse.

3. YES, THIS IS REALLY ABUSE! I know, I had a hard time saying it to. I continually asked myself if he could be right. Was I just imagining the whole thing or exaggerating all of the events that had taken place? No, it was all real! 

4. I worried about the same thing, which is why I ended up going back. I may have made a huge mistake, and know for certain that I would have been happier had I allowed to divorce to become finalized.

5. Despite what your husband might tell you (mine told me that all of my friends and family agreed with him and were lying to me because I was an overly emotional person), they will respect you and will be there to help you through it all. My friends and family were. And, while they will be disappointed if you go back to him, they will understand and support you.

6. According to Albert Einstein, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. In this sense, you have tried everything, and are failing right now. It is time to change your actions so you can truly get different results.

7. A parent always finds a way. My mother was a single mother of two daughters and no education. My sister and I never went hungry. There is also help out there for you. You will find work and will be able to support your son. You can also negotiate the custody and child support situation in court.

8. Your father and the next man you fall in love with.

When I left, it all of a sudden and very unexpectedly became very easy.


----------



## Troubledlinda

crisis1008 said:


> 1. What will you tell your son if you don't break up this family. You know, you are responsible for keeping your son in a healthy environment.
> 
> 2. I had the same fear, but despite my baggage there were plenty of men knocking on my door when I left my husband. I promise you, this will not occur. Although, you will need some alone time when you finally separate from him in order to clear your head and deal with the residual affects of being the victim of abuse.
> 
> 3. YES, THIS IS REALLY ABUSE! I know, I had a hard time saying it to. I continually asked myself if he could be right. Was I just imagining the whole thing or exaggerating all of the events that had taken place? No, it was all real!
> 
> 4. I worried about the same thing, which is why I ended up going back. I may have made a huge mistake, and know for certain that I would have been happier had I allowed to divorce to become finalized.
> 
> 5. Despite what your husband might tell you (mine told me that all of my friends and family agreed with him and were lying to me because I was an overly emotional person), they will respect you and will be there to help you through it all. My friends and family were. And, while they will be disappointed if you go back to him, they will understand and support you.
> 
> 6. According to Albert Einstein, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. In this sense, you have tried everything, and are failing right now. It is time to change your actions so you can truly get different results.
> 
> 7. A parent always finds a way. My mother was a single mother of two daughters and no education. My sister and I never went hungry. There is also help out there for you. You will find work and will be able to support your son. You can also negotiate the custody and child support situation in court.
> 
> 8. Your father and the next man you fall in love with.
> 
> When I left, it all of a sudden and very unexpectedly became very easy.


Thank you for helping me understand all this


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Honestly, I don't think he would physically hurt me.


Then why do you need to walk on eggshells?


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> - What will I tell my son for breaking his family?


I took you from an environment that was going to damage you for life. I saved you from a lifetime of misery. You can see your dad when he comes to visit you; that's more time than he spent with you now.


Troubledlinda said:


> - What if I end up alone?


Is that all you are worth? The only thing you care about is having a man next to you in bed? Are you not a vibrant, intelligent, VALUABLE HUMAN BEING who is more than just defined as having a man next to her? Besides, YOU are a good person. Do you have any idea how many men are out there looking for a woman who won't cheat, won't abuse THEM, and will treat them well? Millions


Troubledlinda said:


> - Is this really abuse?


Every single one of us - all who have been in the exact same spot and KNOW more than you because we've already been through it - are telling you: yes, IT IS ABUSE.


Troubledlinda said:


> - What if he changes and then I regret leaving him?


If he changes, he will see that HE screwed up, and he will come back begging you to forgive him. If he doesn't change, then you escaped a life of hell.


Troubledlinda said:


> - What will people think?


Why on earth do you care what people think? Do you want your SON to live HIS life worried about what people think? Of course not. So why are you less worthy than him?


Troubledlinda said:


> - I feel like I failed


Failing is staying and continuing to be abused and teaching your son to be an abuser. THAT is the ultimate failure - teaching your son to hurt a woman like his dad.


Troubledlinda said:


> - Will I be able to take care of my son on my own?


Of course you will. 


Troubledlinda said:


> - who will I use as male role models for him?


Parents, siblings, uncles, friends, new husband, Big Brother if you have to - plenty of men out there who can teach him to be a GOOD, godly man who respects women.


----------



## Ellie5

Darn it just wrote a big response and lost it before posting!

100% agree with Tunera and Crisis.

Sorry I made you cry! (lots of hugs).

Great you are exercising (healthy body, healthy mind).

Eleanor Roosevelt "no one has the ability to make you feel inferior without your consent". (love coming back to this one if someone *gets* to me).

Don't bother sending him any ST links - Tell him. Why fanny around hiding behind an email?

Who cares what he thinks or feels. He's abused you and continues to abuse you. That's weakness. Insecurity. Emotional immaturity.

Be INDIFFERENT. You don't care. Fake that until it starts to happen.

The less space he takes in your head and your heart the more space you free up to focus on Linda. Imagine he's your lodger and treat him accordingly. No chit chat, no questions, no dancing to his tunes, or trying to be nice. Pull way, way, back. You have nothing to prove to him. If he doesn't love you, well what a coward, if he can't come out with it pity his weakness and move on.

You're hurting and it's crap. It's taken me a year to take action of my own and get my family over to the house because my H never bothers going to see them any more (I was always fearful of asking them over for fear of his reaction, since marriage a total lack of effort with them) - last w/e my nephew had his first b/day party and he hasn't even met him (of course H didn't want to come with me either). So I blurted out that it was about time we had people over and they'd be invited whether he liked it or not - calling his bluff - after all what can he do about it? it's his house but it's also my home and I have every right. I'm so fed up with this just wish I'd taken action sooner - and that's what most of your replies on here are trying to convey - don't cower in a corner wishing your life away.

I know it's easy to say this but aim to take the emotion out of it. Get practical now. Plan ahead. Do. Go out. He's not the centre of your world, your son and you are. That's a good thing.

You haven't broken up a family. He's done that all by himself. You leaving is you saving a family (you and your son).

I wouldn't be thinking ahead about being with someone else. Be strong on your own first. There's a big huge well of strength inside you, you just don't know it.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> My fears:
> - What will I tell my son for breaking his family?


You didn't break the family, your husband already did. 

He's already walked away from the marriage and separated from you. The only difference from most people is that he's still in the same house. He might already consider you both divorced in his own mind. 



> _- Is this really abuse? _


He is intentionally upsetting you, so yes, it is abuse. 



> _- What if he changes and then I regret leaving him?_


You can't leave him, because he already left you long ago. And if he changes, that's fantastic, but that's a very long process before you know if it's only a superficial change to "trick" you into coming back. Honestly, how long through silent treatments do you want to wait for that to happen? Anyway, if you stay, then he certainly isn't going to change. 



> _- What will people think? _


Ahh.. but that's *HIS* fear too!

Once again, my instinct tells me he simply doesn't want to be married to you anymore, so he is playing this game of trying to drive you crazy until you file for divorce. Then he can claim to everyone else to be the "good guy" whose wife left him. He can claim whatever he wants, but just tell your friends and family the truth and let them decide who is at fault.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Then why do you need to walk on eggshells?


Not afraid that he gets physical with me (because I really don't think he would dare... but then again I didn't think he was capable of ignoring his wife for 2 months, so who knows) 

Even when things are good, I walk on eggshells to avoid saying something wrong or using a "bad" tone of voice (yes even a "wrong" tone of voice can set him off)... Not afraid that he would hit me, but afraid that I would be "punished" with ST so to keep the peace, I avoid talking about sensitive issues... Even the smallest things.

One time we got into an argument (while we were eating) and I got so angry at him, that I pointed my fork at him (yeah I know, I know... maybe not a good thing, but I was really angry and it was the first time I ever did something like that...)... well, he told his mom that I almost stabbed him with a fork :scratchhead: (sorry, had to share this)


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Once again, my instinct tells me he simply doesn't want to be married to you anymore, so he is playing this game of trying to drive you crazy until you file for divorce. Then he can claim to everyone else to be the "good guy" whose wife left him. He can claim whatever he wants, but just tell your friends and family the truth and let them decide who is at fault.


I thought of this many times and since a long time ago when I started noticing this strange behavior... but who wants to admit that? 

Every year he takes me on a "romantic" getaway (just the 2 of us) making me feel like he wants to be alone with me (even thoough there is no sex on these getaways)... what do you think of that?


----------



## turnera

You never have sex?


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Even when things are good, I walk on eggshells to avoid saying something wrong or using a "bad" tone of voice (yes even a "wrong" tone of voice can set him off)... Not afraid that he would hit me, but afraid that I would be "punished" with ST so to keep the peace, I avoid talking about sensitive issues... Even the smallest things.


Well, you know this isn't working, don't you?

SO STOP DOING IT!

Make a choice to NOT 'avoid saying something' - just once this week. Ok? Just one time. You will be AMAZED at how good it makes you feel. 

The reason you can't see a way out of this is that every time you keep your mouth shut so as not to upset him, you hate yourself a little.bit.more. You keep hating yourself for every move you make, eventually you just HATE YOURSELF.

You need therapy to get past this.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> You never have sex?


Twice in the last two years... 
As soon as we got married, it gradually started going down... 
I never use the common excuses: "I have a headache, I'm tired, the kids, etc...." I initiate, he's not interested.  Not even when are away on vacation or on special occasion (birthday, anniversary, Christmas, New years.... ) and of course it is classified under "sensitive issues" so everytime I've tried to discuss it, it's never gotten anywhere... No hugs or kisses, other than small pecks to say hello, bye, etc.... I'm laughing at myself as I'm writing this beacuse it is so ridiculous... (I had mors sex in my single life)


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## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Make a choice to NOT 'avoid saying something' - just once this week. Ok? Just one time. You will be AMAZED at how good it makes you feel.
> 
> You need therapy to get past this.


He's not around this week. He's gone to a conference for a week and I leave the day after he gets home. He left yesterday AM and has made no contact (so I assume he got there safely)


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## turnera

Great! Spend this week getting a life! Go out and DO something that you will enjoy. Then send him a text letting him know what you did and how much you enjoyed it.

Take back your power.


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## Ellie5

So, he left yesterday morning and hasn't even bothered contacting you?

I wouldn't contact him AT ALL, ignore him and like Tunera says, get your power back. Would you usually contact him to see if he's ok?

Where's his concern for your well-being?

Linda this is so unbelievably cruel I am stunned tbh. He takes you away for a *romantic* getaway and there's no sex?

Life is too short to be miserable like this. 

So, what are you packing for your trip and have you treated yourself to something new and fun?


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## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Twice in the last two years...
> As soon as we got married, it gradually started going down...
> I never use the common excuses: "I have a headache, I'm tired, the kids, etc...." I initiate, he's not interested.  Not even when are away on vacation or on special occasion (birthday, anniversary, Christmas, New years.... ) and of course it is classified under "sensitive issues" so everytime I've tried to discuss it, it's never gotten anywhere... No hugs or kisses, other than small pecks to say hello, bye, etc.... I'm laughing at myself as I'm writing this beacuse it is so ridiculous... (I had mors sex in my single life)


Passive aggressive people have been known to use sex as a weapon. Refusing someone sexually is just as emotionally damaging as the silent treatment.


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## turnera

linda, try to take a step back and look at this marriage. What, exactly, are you getting out of it? Aside from having a man living in your house?


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> So, he left yesterday morning and hasn't even bothered contacting you?
> 
> I wouldn't contact him AT ALL, ignore him and like Tunera says, get your power back. Would you usually contact him to see if he's ok?
> 
> Linda this is so unbelievably cruel I am stunned tbh. He takes you away for a *romantic* getaway and there's no sex?


No, he hasn't contacted me at all... no calls, no text, no emails just to say that he's ok and see how we are doing. nothing. (I didn't think he would because that's just how he is when he's giving me the ST but I guess a part of me was hoping he would). I am not contacting him, even though his boy was asking for him last night and wanted to talk to him.... (at least ask about your son!!! call him, even if it means having to hear my voice for a second). The first thing we do when one of us travels, is to always let the other person know that we arrived safely but hey... 

Yes, "romantic" getaways with no sex! :scratchhead:


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> linda, try to take a step back and look at this marriage. What, exactly, are you getting out of it? Aside from having a man living in your house?


Yes I know, it makes no sense... I told him 2 weeks ago when I tried to have a talk with him, that we are not a couple, we are worse than roommates, cause I actually had fun with my old roommates! We do nothing that couples do so, please, we are out at social events, stop acting like the loving and affectionate husband, treat me like you do home.... that's when he told me to write him a list of all his flaws so he can make photocopies and send to all out friends so they can see what a bad person he is... 

This is the talk that made the silence more "silent"


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Passive aggressive people have been known to use sex as a weapon. Refusing someone sexually is just as emotionally damaging as the silent treatment.


When it first started happening, I thought to myself that there was a real serious problem with me... I've always known that 99% of men need and want sex regularly and I couldn't even get my hubby aroused... (this was not a problem when we were dating - he was happy then that I was "adventurous") 
Now I understand that I am not the problem...


----------



## turnera

Maybe he's in the closet and mad at you for being the only one who might figure it out.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Maybe he's in the closet and mad at you for being the only one who might figure it out.


Noooo, he's not in the closet. he likes girls... just not THIS girl


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Noooo, he's not in the closet. he likes girls... just not THIS girl


You might be surprised to learn that he doesn't like any girl....meaning he doesn't respect them and no matter who he is with, he would eventually act this way. He is broken and no relationship will be successful until he seeks help.


----------



## turnera

Agreed. Abuse/control is just all he knows. So the only person who can change your life, linda, is you.


----------



## Troubledlinda

:iagree:


SaltInWound said:


> You might be surprised to learn that he doesn't like any girl....meaning he doesn't respect them and no matter who he is with, he would eventually act this way. He is broken and no relationship will be successful until he seeks help.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Agreed. Abuse/control is just all he knows. So the only person who can change your life, linda, is you.


:iagree:
I'm working on it....


----------



## crisis1008

My husband stopped wanting to have sex with me about a year into out marriage. It seemed to happen suddenly. He never wanted to talk about it and would get very angry at me for bringing it up. He even went so far as to tell me with a look and tone of disgust that all I cared about was d**k. That one reduced me to my knees, as I felt like he was calling me a shallow wh*r*. Since then, he has angrily blurted out that he has a hard time getting an erection. He hates me for making him talk about it. He has been on the little blue pill ever since, but the sex never came back to our marriage and he masturbates frequently, if not daily. He does not want me, but wants porn.

I am so sorry you have you have to deal with this too. I know you feel lonely. I too am also getting the silent treatment. Day three and counting.

I know the idea of leaving is not easy. Most people here know that it is easier said than done. I know that I should probably leave my husband again and for good, but I have not reached that point yet. I was afraid of this when I reconciled with him. When I left before, I had reached a breaking point. I had snapped. My husband was giving me the silent treatment again, when I had decided to call him and ask him if he needed anything from Walgreens. It was all a ruse. I just wanted to hear his voice and see if he would talk to me. Well he talked to me alright. He screamed at me not allowing me to even get a word in to defend myself as I sat in my car in the Walgreens parking lot crying uncontrollably as I choked on the tears streaming down my face and into my nose and mouth. When he finally hung up on me, I looked up to see so many people staring at me as they slowly walked past my car. Right then I snapped. Right at that very moment. I decided to look at the length of the phone call under my cell phone options. That phone call lasted 18 minutes and some odd seconds. I had been screamed at for over 18 minutes straight.

The next day was Father's day, which started off with my husband still not speaking to me. I decided to let the day play as normal for my in-laws and the children. So, I went to find my husband a generic gift from the local Harley shop, when he called out of the blue. He told me very matter-of-factly, almost like it was a simple business matter, that he just wanted to let me know that he was ready to drop it. I very hesitantly said "Okay.", as I knew he needed to drop it because he had to put on the act that our marriage was perfect because the entire family was coming over for dinner. When he hung up he told me that he loved me and I very coldly repeated the same words, which meant nothing to me anymore. 

The next morning he called me while on my drive to work and asked me what was wrong and I told him that I was leaving him in one month's time and wanted a divorce. He tried everything from that moment to be the best husband possible, but it was too late. My heart was cold and empty. I did leave him in one month's time.

After ten years of knowing I should leave him and considering it, it was finally that easy.


----------



## SaltInWound

crisis1008 said:


> My husband stopped wanting to have sex with me about a year into out marriage. It seemed to happen suddenly. He never wanted to talk about it and would get very angry at me for bringing it up. He even went so far as to tell me with a look and tone of disgust that all I cared about was d**k. That one reduced me to my knees, as I felt like he was calling me a shallow wh*r*. Since then, he has angrily blurted out that he has a hard time getting an erection. He hates me for making him talk about it. He has been on the little blue pill ever since, but the sex never came back to our marriage and he masturbates frequently, if not daily. He does not want me, but wants porn.
> 
> I am so sorry you have you have to deal with this too. I know you feel lonely. I too am also getting the silent treatment. Day three and counting.


Intimacy issues tend to cause sexual problems, so they seek out porn and masturbation and lash out at us because we need physical contact.


----------



## Troubledlinda

crisis1008 said:


> .
> The next morning he called me while on my drive to work and asked me what was wrong and I told him that I was leaving him in one month's time and wanted a divorce. He tried everything from that moment to be the best husband possible, but it was too late. My heart was cold and empty. I did leave him in one month's time.


You gave him a month notice. wow! what did you do during that one month? How was your interaction with him? 

Are thes men that do this kind of things, all made the same way? They seem to follow a pattern... 

With the lack of sex, I thought he was seeing someone and asked him (this is was in the first year of marriage) and replied by saying that trust was an important part of a relationship and if I didn't trust him, then we had nothing to do together... so, obviously I never brought it up again!


----------



## crisis1008

I was very callous about everything. I went through the motions of daily life... cooking and cleaning and taking care of his teenage daughter. I really did try to allow myself to feel emotion and reconnect with him, but couldn't. He tried everything. He even went so far as to take me to buy new living room furniture. I did not want to go, but thought I should be trying to save our marriage. We even slept in the same bed. The trouble was he now disgusted me and I was more than irate with the way that I had been treated for so many years. I literally felt hatred for him. The night before I left he begged me to stay, but in the morning I asked him to leave so I could pack my things and he did. I got all that I needed and left. While my heart hurts now thinking about it all, it did not then.

Linda, I cannot explain what finally came over me. Being cruel is not in my nature at all. I am the type of person who has a hard time with confrontation, as I fear hurting or angering people. It was almost like I went into survival-mode.


----------



## Troubledlinda

crisis1008 said:


> Linda, I cannot explain what finally came over me. Being cruel is not in my nature at all. I am the type of person who has a hard time with confrontation, as I fear hurting or angering people. It was almost like I went into survival-mode.


Yeah, I am the same way... If I can avoid conflict, I will. I hate confrontation.... I guess this character trait is what got me so deep in this situation... accepting everything to avoid a fight! 

Do you think you will leave him again? It seems like the decision is somewhat "easier" when you don't have children together... But then again we do love these men and live on hope that one day the light bulb will be on in their head and they will see their wrong.... (I know I sound dillusional)


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> Yeah, I am the same way... If I can avoid conflict, I will. I hate confrontation.... I guess this character trait is what got me so deep in this situation... accepting everything to avoid a fight!
> 
> Do you think you will leave him again? It seems like the decision is somewhat "easier" when you don't have children together... But then again *we do love these men and live on hope that one day the light bulb will be on in their head and they will see their wrong.... *(I know I sound dillusional)


It isnt going to happen. There IS no light bulb moment. Crisis's husband is a perfect example, he faked making things right and sucked her back in, then when right back to BEING HIMSELF. He is never going to actually change, your's is never going to change, and the both of you need to leave them. I KNOW, because I was married to the same man as both of you! I LEFT. I have never had a single moment of regret for leaving him! I DID mourn the loss of my marriage, which is natural, but I never have mourned him not being in my life.


----------



## Troubledlinda

3Xnocharm said:


> It isnt going to happen. There IS no light bulb moment. Crisis's husband is a perfect example, he faked making things right and sucked her back in, then when right back to BEING HIMSELF. He is never going to actually change, your's is never going to change, and the both of you need to leave them. I KNOW, because I was married to the same man as both of you! I LEFT. I have never had a single moment of regret for leaving him! I DID mourn the loss of my marriage, which is natural, but I never have mourned him not being in my life.


Yes, you're right... I'll eventually get to that point. Was the decision easy for you to make? what was the breaking point for you? Did you remarry? do you have children... Sorry for the questions, I know I read your posts earlier on when I first posted but I don't remember...


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> Yes, you're right... I'll eventually get to that point. Was the decision easy for you to make? what was the breaking point for you? Did you remarry? do you have children... Sorry for the questions, I know I read your posts earlier on when I first posted but I don't remember...


My breaking point was a road trip we took, and he had a screaming fit at me while I was driving. Insulting me, cursing, and then he said something horrible to me that was about my daughter (who was in the back)...and I snapped right then. I knew right at that exact moment that I was done. I knew that after a day or so he would go back to normal like nothing happened, just like he always did after a blow up or a silent treatment, and I was right. He tried, and I didnt respond. It was never the same and I left in less than a year's time after that.


----------



## Ellie5

What is it with these bl****y men?!

Linda I have to say, your H sounds like a BULLY. Do you feel claustrophobic living with him? he's controlling you, manipulating you, not *allowing* you to discuss issues that are pressing, he doesn't call when he's away (how hurtful to not even want to speak to his own son).

What would be your own breaking point for you to leave him? He sounds utterly miserable (I thought my H was bad!). It's our wedding anniversary today and we didn't bother with cards or gifts, after this w/e and his lack of support, things are a bit strained between us but at least we're talking. We're only a few years in to our marriage. His sexual appetite is still very much there but I'm turned off when there's no emotional connection.

Get it right out of your head that you are, or ever were, the *problem*. He has totally eroded all your self confidence and esteem. 

Is it a relief to be in your house with just you and your son? what's the air like?! Are you dancing around the lounge and singing loudly to your favourite tunes? (sounds like he likes you to shut up and be the good little wife when he's around). I wouldn't last 5 minutes with him.

All these PA / ST hubbies seem to have a running theme - change once married. If I'm honest I noticed the beginnings of this the moment we got engaged. Less effort in many areas. Our marriage has been up and down like a yoyo.


----------



## turnera

If you read the book Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men, you'll see that they consider getting the girl to be a task, something to win. It's not about love, though they may confuse their intense feelings for love. It's about coming out on top, in every single instance. So, yeah, once they 'have' you, your appeal is gone. Then you become just another possession.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> What is it with these bl****y men?!
> 
> Linda I have to say, your H sounds like a BULLY. Do you feel claustrophobic living with him? he's controlling you, manipulating you, not *allowing* you to discuss issues that are pressing, he doesn't call when he's away (how hurtful to not even want to speak to his own son).
> 
> What would be your own breaking point for you to leave him? He sounds utterly miserable (I thought my H was bad!). It's our wedding anniversary today and we didn't bother with cards or gifts, after this w/e and his lack of support, things are a bit strained between us but at least we're talking. We're only a few years in to our marriage. His sexual appetite is still very much there but I'm turned off when there's no emotional connection.
> 
> Get it right out of your head that you are, or ever were, the *problem*. He has totally eroded all your self confidence and esteem.
> 
> Is it a relief to be in your house with just you and your son? what's the air like?! Are you dancing around the lounge and singing loudly to your favourite tunes? (sounds like he likes you to shut up and be the good little wife when he's around). I wouldn't last 5 minutes with him.


Yes, it really hurts that he's not trying to talk to his son... and he knows how I feel about that cause he's done it before when I was on punishment. When he gets back I'm sure he'll be all over him telling him how much he missed him....

To be honest, I feel free and more relaxed... I do feel a bit lonely (but I feel lonely when he's around too anyways and we're not talking)... I don't have the knot in my stomach when I hear his car pulling in the driveway (it's a strange feeling, I want him to come home but as soon as his car pulls in, I get a knot in my stomach... what is that all about?) 

My break point? To be honest, I'm not sure... am thinking hard on this one... Last time I was on ST for 6 weeks I thought to myself that next time this happens, I'm out... well that next time is now and I'm still here... (he stopped talking to me on august 15th, we were on holiday and flew back without talking to each other...) 

I think one day I'm gonna write a book on this... it just baffles me!


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> the knot in my stomach when I hear his car pulling in the driveway (it's a strange feeling, I want him to come home but as soon as his car pulls in, I get a knot in my stomach... what is that all about?)


It's about being an abuse victim. 

We all have it. Mine used to question me when he got home about what I did, as in, how lazy was I. So when I'd hear him pull up, I'd jump off the couch, or turn the tv off, or hide the computer, and pretend to be cleaning - just to avoid the 'what did YOU get done today?' query. Even today, it's a really strong pull to keep doing that.


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## turnera

If you're not ready to move out, at LEAST start living a great life in your home as if he is not there. Start having friends over. Start going out to lunch or dinner dates with friends. Take some classes and have a blast. Join a rummy club. Start enjoying your life as though you were single, which you practically are. Let him pay for it.


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## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> If you're not ready to move out, at LEAST start living a great life in your home as if he is not there. Start having friends over. Start going out to lunch or dinner dates with friends. Take some classes and have a blast. Join a rummy club. Start enjoying your life as though you were single, which you practically are. Let him pay for it.


Yes, that's what I've started doing: living as if I was alone. I see my friends for lunch (dinner I'm mostly home as I have to watch my son)... I go to church every sunday... I take my boy to play dates and birthday parties, I go to the gym... I can't say that I enjoy the "alone" activities yet but eventually I will get used to it. I don't have a lot of "single" friends so finding people to do things with (especially on weekends when everyone is on family time) is a bit hard but I'll find a way... I'll have no choice. I am not yet "ready" to move out so this is the strategy for now... (using this for preparation, as well, for when I do feel ready to bounce out of here)


----------



## turnera

Remember that, when he is home, YOU don't have to stay home at night to watch your son. That's what his dad is for.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I feel alright actually when he's away... I don't spend my day thinking of how the evening will be when he gets home... I don't catch myself thinking of him all the time... I'm making tiny progress... yeahhhh!!!!


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Remember that, when he is home, YOU don't have to stay home at night to watch your son. That's what his dad is for.


True! by the time he gets home son's already in bed anyways so we can cross each other at the door....


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> If you read the book Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men, you'll see that they consider getting the girl to be a task, something to win. It's not about love, though they may confuse their intense feelings for love. It's about coming out on top, in every single instance. So, yeah, once they 'have' you, your appeal is gone. Then you become just another possession.


I ordered the book so should be getting it soon. Does he just explain why these men do that or does it also explain how to deal/solve/work on these issues? Does it give practical advice on how to cope and fix?


----------



## turnera

Yes, he shows you what to do.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Yes, he shows you what to do.


Great!


----------



## Troubledlinda

Has anyone read the book: "emotionally abused women"? 
Is it good?


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Has anyone read the book: "emotionally abused women"?
> Is it good?


I have not heard of that one.
Read "Living With the Passive Aggressive Man" by Wetzler. 
Excellent book. It makes it so clear what they are thinking and why. It also made me realize how hopeless it is to try to be in a relationship with one. They don't change. The most important thing to understand is the angry withdrawn person you see at home is the real him. They are not normal people. Normal people mostly have good days and once in a while are angry or don't want to talk. With the PA, they are always angry and have spurts of normal behavior, but for them, it isn't normal behavior.....they are faking it. They are actors. 

I think of this song when I think of my stbx pa narcissist.
Madonna - Take A Bow - YouTube


----------



## Troubledlinda

4 days of absolute silence from "my out of town" husband... how cruel can one be? If he doesn't love me, fine... I can live with that! But his son???? Doesn't he care enough about his son to call and say hello and ask how he's doing??? come on!!!


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> 4 days of absolute silence from "my out of town" husband... how cruel can one be? If he doesn't love me, fine... I can live with that! But his son???? Doesn't he care enough about his son to call and say hello and ask how he's doing??? come on!!!


Be prepared for the possibility that when you divorce, he won't have anything to do with his son. He is showing you who he is.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> 4 days of absolute silence from "my out of town" husband... how cruel can one be? If he doesn't love me, fine... I can live with that! But his son???? Doesn't he care enough about his son to call and say hello and ask how he's doing??? come on!!!


linda, this is EXACTLY why you need to move out. If your son isn't living in the same house as his dad, it's easier to grow up thinking that maybe dad loves me but it's just a lot of trouble to see me. But if he's living with his dad and his dad does this to him, your son is growing up to believe HE IS UNLOVABLE.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Be prepared for the possibility that when you divorce, he won't have anything to do with his son. He is showing you who he is.


How unfair is this for his son? This is where my guilt kicks in, in regards to my son...


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> linda, this is EXACTLY why you need to move out. If your son isn't living in the same house as his dad, it's easier to grow up thinking that maybe dad loves me but it's just a lot of trouble to see me. But if he's living with his dad and his dad does this to him, your son is growing up to believe HE IS UNLOVABLE.


This is horrible! Punish me if you want, don't punish your boy! He has nothing to do with our problems....


----------



## turnera

linda, YOU are in control of whether your son is party to this, not your husband. Your decision to stay with him and not hold him accountable, YOUR weakness or need to be with a man, or whatever it is, is what is harming your son at this point.


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## Ellie5

Linda I'm so sorry you're having to deal with not only your own hurt, but now your son's. Can you stay with a friend or relative? When is he due home?

Like Tunera says, you are in control. Make some moves of your own. Please don't wait for him to change. I really feel for you Linda, how about using this time to devise a plan? Be the captain of your own ship.


----------



## SaltInWound

Sweetie, there is something you need to understand. This is NOT "our" problems. This is not even YOUR problem. This is your husband's problem. This is who he is. he doesn't care about anyone but himself and now it is hurting your son. 

Understand from my own experience........even if your son says nothing to you about how he feels, he is taking inventory and it is slowly emotionally destroying him. Your son needs the chance to live with a good man who knows how to treat children so that he feels worthy. He also needs a good example of how to treat his mother and future girlfriends, wives, and people in general.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Yes, Yes and Yes to all of your comments and suggestions! Nobody deserves this kind of treatment! It will eventually sink in...

I was thinking of calling him and passing the phone to my son so he can speak to his dad... is that bad?


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda I'm so sorry you're having to deal with not only your own hurt, but now your son's. Can you stay with a friend or relative? When is he due home?
> 
> Like Tunera says, you are in control. Make some moves of your own. Please don't wait for him to change. I really feel for you Linda, how about using this time to devise a plan? Be the captain of your own ship.


He's coming home on monday night, I'm leaving on tuesday evening... planning on making no contact with him while I'm away. My boy will be staying with my parents so there wont be a need to call H. 

This is getting really out of hand and out of proportion... And in all this, I still don't know what the fuss is about.


----------



## Troubledlinda

My question is this: 
Does the person giving the ST also suffering from it? Is he suffering from not engaging with me or is he feeling "normal" about it?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Troubledlinda said:


> My question is this:
> Does the person giving the ST also suffering from it? Is he suffering from not engaging with me or is he feeling "normal" about it?


NO.

The person who is giving the silent treatment feels a sense of superiority over their " victim."
That's one of the reason it is called abuse.

Abuse is considered any form of treatment metered out to someone , other than what they're accustomed to , with the sole purpose of attacking / humiliating them.

He draws strength from seeing you suffer like this , because he's wired badly.


----------



## Advocado

I suspect he is the type to cut off his nose to spite his face. However, regardless of whether or not he is suffering you need to get yourself and your son away from this intolerable and unwarranted abuse. 

Please know and accept that it's not going to be easy to make the life changing decisions, but in time you can come out the other end smiling and knowing you did the right thing for you and your child. You ARE strong; so be strong. 

PS: How's it going with the positive affirmations (see below). Did you give them a try and are you still doing them. They're *VERY *important - they can strengthen you mentally in these difficult times. 



Advocado said:


> This is the scary part. This is where you have to dredge up all your strength and be strong. *You absolutely need to have a resolute and positive attitude. * or you will end up right back at square one.
> 
> Keep repeating the following to yourself - over and over again, especially at times when you feel fearful, tearful and/or weak -
> 
> 
> 
> *[*]Everyday I am growing stronger and wiser and I can overcome seemingly overwhelming or scary obstacles.
> [*]I am worthy and my son and I deserve happiness and respect.
> [*]I am brave and I do what it takes to get me through difficult times.*
> 
> 
> Say this to yourself several times every morning on waking and several times last thing at night. When you feel lost during the day, repeat it then too. If you can't sleep at night repeat it then as well.
> 
> By doing the above I believe you will be able to drum it into your own head that you do indeed have the strength and wisdom to deal with your situation and come out the other end with peace of mind and happiness.
> 
> PLEASE PLEASE, even if you feel sceptical, please start doing the above and keep it up. What have you got to lose. Just do it PLEASE.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Caribbean Man said:


> NO.
> 
> The person who is giving the silent treatment feels a sense of superiority over their " victim."
> That's one of the reason it is called abuse.
> 
> Abuse is considered any form of treatment metered out to someone , other than what they're accustomed to , with the sole purpose of attacking / humiliating them.
> 
> He draws strength from seeing you suffer like this , because he's wired badly.


You must be right. I thought he might be sad not talking to his wife... I thought he might want to but doesn't know how to break the ice... But noooo, that doesn't maKe sense.... If he wanted to talk to me, it's not that hard...


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> I suspect he is the type to cut off his nose to spite his face. However, regardless of whether or not he is suffering you need to get yourself and your son away from this intolerable and unwarranted abuse.
> 
> Please know and accept that it's not going to be easy to make the life changing decisions, but in time you can come out the other end smiling and knowing you did the right thing for you and your child. You ARE strong; so be strong.
> 
> PS: How's it going with the positive affirmations (see below). Did you give them a try and are you still doing them. They're *VERY *important - they can strengthen you mentally in these difficult times.


Yes Advocado,

I do repeat to myself the positive affirmations. I even recorded something on my phone so I can listen over and over... I guess I do feel ok some days and other days it just all comes rushing back in my head and makes it spin.... wandering how this could be happening. My head knows what to do but my heart is saying something different...


----------



## Ellie5

Linda, please ask yourself what you mean by "heart" - once you've lost your respect for this man it will be easier to let go of him, and reclaim whatever feeling you have for him.

And then give that heart of yours back to yourself and your son.

I LOVE Advocado's affirmations.

Like Caribbean man says, he draws his strength from your suffering - so take away suffering, and you take away his power. Even if you don't feel better, SHOW him that you're not suffering. 

Does he know you are going away? 

If this were happening to a friend, what advice would you give her?

I think you're missing the most important part of this story - and that's YOU. By staying with him you're not really loving yourself. You'll become even weaker and he'll feed on that until you've lost all sense of self-respect and dignity.

Who cares what he thinks or feels? 

Redirect your focus and energy. Can you recognize you've probably lost a lot of energy from simply worrying and ruminating over him? 

Now tell us about your fabulous trip


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda, please ask yourself what you mean by "heart" - once you've lost your respect for this man it will be easier to let go of him, and reclaim whatever feeling you have for him.
> 
> And then give that heart of yours back to yourself and your son.
> 
> I LOVE Advocado's affirmations.
> 
> Like Caribbean man says, he draws his strength from your suffering - so take away suffering, and you take away his power. Even if you don't feel better, SHOW him that you're not suffering.
> 
> Does he know you are going away?
> 
> If this were happening to a friend, what advice would you give her?
> 
> I think you're missing the most important part of this story - and that's YOU. By staying with him you're not really loving yourself. You'll become even weaker and he'll feed on that until you've lost all sense of self-respect and dignity.
> 
> Who cares what he thinks or feels?
> 
> Redirect your focus and energy. Can you recognize you've probably lost a lot of energy from simply worrying and ruminating over him?
> 
> Now tell us about your fabulous trip


Yes I did inform him I was going away for a week. He didn't really respond, he just said "ok"

Although he is away, my boy and I came to spend the weekend with my folks... needed to feel some love and sense of "belonging"... I don't cry anymore (done too much of that already, I feel like I have no more tears) I feel drained and tired... it's starting to show on my face! 

Looking forward to being away for a few days, I will miss my son terribly but God knows how much I need to "breathe"... I feel like I'm gonna snap... I have to think of the next steps to take before I break down...


----------



## Ellie5

Linda that's really great you stayed with your family, could you move some things in before you go on your trip so that when you get back you've got a loving environment to return to before going to the marital home?

Drained and tired is very understandable. Choose to not be drained and tired and you'll start recovering your strength back. Little by little.

When he gets back (night before you go right?), I wouldn't even say good bye when you go (even if you're dying inside and you want to *reach out* to him), just keep communication with him to the bare minimum - let him PRIZE information out of you if necessary but don't give anything away voluntarily (he might think you're bluffing).

When my H gave me the silent treatment for those 2 weeks with grunts in between I told him I needed my own space and was going to spend time with my family for a weekend - he seemed ruffled but said he didn't care - (which hurt very deeply). When I got back however, there were empty crisp packets left out, (he'd been comfort eating) he actually felt abandoned - (he later worked out I'd do exactly the same if he kept up with this abuse). Ie, I didn't spend the time fretting over him but taking matters into my own hands (and yes it was painful, I thought of him the entire w/e and cried a lot).

That aside, when you do go, please don't waste the time hoping that you being away will suddenly transform him into Mr Nice Guy. It won't. It might shock him and it might buck him up - but please don't invest in that possibility and get your hopes up.

This is time for you to think about what YOU want for you and your son.

We are often more lonely in a miserable marriage than by ourselves and single.

Get smart and get to know your legal rights.

If you need to snap, snap, if you need to break down, break down. Go through it all. You have a support network here but also your family. Resources are there for you.

Sending you big hugs.


----------



## SaltInWound

My stbx does and did punish himself when he punished me and I know it bothered him.

Stbxh is obese, so he obviously likes to eat. I remember several times when he was in the middle of a ST, he would refuse to eat a meal I had cooked. Back then I did not know how to handle a ST, so of course, I practically begged him to eat. He is a severe PA and narcissist, so he takes things to the extreme. He wasn't the type to make himself a sandwich or cook something else. He actually starved himself. However, instead of allowing himself to feel hunger, he indulged in his favorite past time form of escapism......sleep. Clever. So while he punished himself, he found a way to alleviate those negative feelings.


----------



## SaltInWound

Ellie5 said:


> That aside, when you do go, please don't waste the time hoping that you being away will suddenly *transform him into Mr Nice Guy*. It won't.


Mr. Nice Guy actually isn't nice at all.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I received a 4 letter email from H this morning: 

"Hello, how is (son's name)?"

I haven't replied...


----------



## Ellie5

Linda - whatever you do - don't reply!!!!!!!!

How pathetic is an email. Minimum effort, minimum words. Given you haven't made contact with him - now he's starting to wonder (keep turning those tables woman!).

You can tell your son that Daddy says hello and sends his love but quite frankly, your H does not deserve a reply from you.

It's doubly cruel given he doesn't even ask how you are - and how many days is it now? He can't even say your name.

I'd find this INSULTING (if I could find a better word I'd use it).

If he wants to know how his son is - LET HIM RING YOU! if he does, don't say ONE WORD to him, pass the phone to your son.

Treat this man the way he treats you. BLANK HIM. Period.

This will take away all his supposed power. You don't give a sh** about him or what he wants or feels. This may sound harsh, but let's count the days of ST shall we?

He needs to make some fast and imploring moves to even make you consider talking to him.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda - whatever you do - don't reply!!!!!!!!
> 
> How pathetic is an email. Minimum effort, minimum words. Given you haven't made contact with him - now he's starting to wonder (keep turning those tables woman!).
> 
> You can tell your son that Daddy says hello and sends his love but quite frankly, your H does not deserve a reply from you.
> 
> It's doubly cruel given he doesn't even ask how you are - and how many days is it now? He can't even say your name.
> 
> I'd find this INSULTING (if I could find a better word I'd use it).
> 
> If he wants to know how his son is - LET HIM RING YOU! if he does, don't say ONE WORD to him, pass the phone to your son.
> 
> Treat this man the way he treats you. BLANK HIM. Period.
> 
> This will take away all his supposed power. You don't give a sh** about him or what he wants or feels. This may sound harsh, but let's count the days of ST shall we?
> 
> He needs to make some fast and imploring moves to even make you consider talking to him.


When I first got the email, my first reaction was: oh let me dial his number and put my son on the phone so he can speak to his daddy (I wanted to do this more for son than for H)... then I thought no ways, that's just too easy... So I didn't do it and I don't think I will... 

Yeah, no consideration for me... as you say, he can't even call me by my name... a simple hello, as if.... whatever!


----------



## Ellie5

Good Linda - I'm really pleased you paused and thought about it.

Responding to him, more or less immediately would have = desperate for his attention (however bleak and indirectly his contact with you was for your son).

All your son needs to be aware of is that his father made contact to tell him he loves him etc. Unless he picks up the phone himself to do this your son still received the information and is (relatively) unaffected.

Let him seethe and wonder why you haven't said "how high" when he's asked you to jump.

You have already taken back some of your own power. Own that.

Now how does that feel? Good I hope. You've now put him in a position whereby he has to wonder why you haven't responded for a change (when you've spent, ooh two months waiting for a response from him).

If it causes a sh** storm when he's home, be as COOL AS A CUCUMBER and let him stomp and pout if need be. Your best revenge is NOT TO REACT. Keep yourself as a dignified, in control, unaffected, detached yet strong woman in your own home, non chalant to his desires (fake it 'til you make it). IGNORE him. You only respond to people worth responding to.

Your lack of contact to him should make him realize that the penny is dropping for you.

Remind yourself that ST is abuse. 

Stay strong and keep us posted. He's back tomorrow right? be busy with other things when he's home - do you even need to be there? and could you stay with your folks before you take your own trip? he doesn't deserve any explanation from you, whatsoever.

Please, I'm sure you're tempted and may well be later, just leave it and forget he even emailed. 

And don't go giving him (in a weak moment) any brownie points for asking after his son - a measly 4 word email - I'm hoping you're stacking this all up in order for you to have a very clear and (maybe even dated) account of his treatment towards you.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Good Linda - I'm really pleased you paused and thought about it.
> 
> Responding to him, more or less immediately would have = desperate for his attention (however bleak and indirectly his contact with you was for your son).
> 
> All your son needs to be aware of is that his father made contact to tell him he loves him etc. Unless he picks up the phone himself to do this your son still received the information and is (relatively) unaffected.
> 
> Let him seethe and wonder why you haven't said "how high" when he's asked you to jump.
> 
> You have already taken back some of your own power. Own that.
> 
> 
> Now how does that feel? Good I hope. You've now put him in a position whereby he has to wonder why you haven't responded for a change (when you've spent, ooh two months waiting for a response from him).
> 
> If it causes a sh** storm when he's home, be as COOL AS A CUCUMBER and let him stomp and pout if need be. Your best revenge is NOT TO REACT. Keep yourself as a dignified, in control, unaffected, detached yet strong woman in your own home, non chalant to his desires (fake it 'til you make it). IGNORE him. You only respond to people worth responding to.
> 
> Your lack of contact to him should make him realize that the penny is dropping for you.
> 
> I don't even think he realized that I didn't respond... I don't think he's sweating it...
> Remind yourself that ST is abuse.
> 
> Stay strong and keep us posted. He's back tomorrow right? be busy with other things when he's home - do you even need to be there? and could you stay with your folks before you take your own trip? he doesn't deserve any explanation from you, whatsoever.
> 
> Please, I'm sure you're tempted and may well be later, just leave it and forget he even emailed.
> 
> And don't go giving him (in a weak moment) any brownie points for asking after his son - a measly 4 word email - I'm hoping you're stacking this all up in order for you to have a very clear and (maybe even dated) account of his treatment towards you.


OK I resisted the urge! Didn't contact him at all  I don't think he cares but that's his problem... At least I didn't give in even though at one point I got scared, thinking: "he's gonna get mad if I don't respond" then I kicked that thought out of my head...

Yes, he's coming back late tomorrow night, I will be sure to be busy... and go to bed somewhat early so I wont be tempted to try and make conversation with him...


----------



## Ellie5

Linda - brilliant.

I'm so pleased for you that you're aware of your thoughts and were able to dismiss your fears. If he gets mad when he gets back, let him. Walk into another room if you have to. Ignore it. Don't ENGAGE with him.

If you really feel a need to speak, keep it brief "if you choose to speak to me, be respectful or I'm walking out of the room" - and then leave it at that - follow this through (zip up your lips and give nothing away!).

Whether or not he cares should no longer be your concern.

Self-preservation and you putting YOU first is the priority here (and of course your son).

I just so feel for you as I know these feelings, the fears, anxiety, questioning, going crazy, questioning yourself, doubting yourself, fearful of their behavior. It's NUTS.

He's blown it. You're worth more. Get out your big guns and make yourself proud of who you are.

Please don't ruminate on whether or not he cares. That horse has bolted.

You deserve a loving man who respects you and cares about you. I'd rather be alone than with someone so hell bent on making you miserable.

I hope you get a good night's sleep too!


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda - brilliant.
> 
> I'm so pleased for you that you're aware of your thoughts and were able to dismiss your fears. If he gets mad when he gets back, let him. Walk into another room if you have to. Ignore it. Don't ENGAGE with him.
> 
> If you really feel a need to speak, keep it brief "if you choose to speak to me, be respectful or I'm walking out of the room" - and then leave it at that - follow this through (zip up your lips and give nothing away!).
> 
> Whether or not he cares should no longer be your concern.
> 
> Self-preservation and you putting YOU first is the priority here (and of course your son).
> 
> 
> 
> I just so feel for you as I know these feelings, the fears, anxiety, questioning, going crazy, questioning yourself, doubting yourself, fearful of their behavior. It's NUTS.
> 
> He's blown it. You're worth more. Get out your big guns and make yourself proud of who you are.
> 
> Please don't ruminate on whether or not he cares. That horse has bolted.
> 
> You deserve a loving man who respects you and cares about you. I'd rather be alone than with someone so hell bent on making you miserable.
> 
> I hope you get a good night's sleep too!


Thank you. I'm actually reading through your threads... I, myself, had tought of the option of "living under the same roof but living separate lives" but I find it really hard... I grew up in a house where my parents have always been close friends, doing things together, sharing everything, loving each other like I've rarely seen... Now that we've grown, they've shared some of the struggles they had in the early days of their marriage and how they overcame them (to help us see that although marriage is difficult, there's always solution)... In 42 years of marriage, I've never seen my parents fight (I'm sure they did, in private) so for me the example I have of what a marriage/family life should "look" like is soooooo far from what I'm experiencing and I struggle with this terribly because I really do want to "make it right" and I want to slap him over the head and say: "look, we can make it, if we could just communicate and chose to love each other unconditionally. I'm not perfect, but I'm willing to work on my issues so WE can be better together, but you got to meet me half-way"

Ooooh how I wish!


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I received a 4 letter email from H this morning:
> 
> "Hello, how is (son's name)?"
> 
> I haven't replied...


I agree with Ellie. Don't respond. He has done his pa jab at you by treating you no better than a babysitter he found in a newspaper ad. This message had nothing to do with checking on his son. He only wrote it because he wants to see how quickly you will respond, and secondly, to see how you will react. If you had responded with anger (which is what he is hoping for), then he could turn himself into the victim (cue violin music) and say "See, this is why I did not check in before now. Because I knew you were going to attack me. All I wanted was to see how my son was doing." 

Think about this........your husband did not say "Tell him I said hi I love him and give him a hug from me." He doesn't view his son as someone to interact with. If so, he could have called. Your son is 3 and old enough to recognize dad's voice on the phone. Old enough to talk. Your husband only asked how he was in a message. There was an agenda to the message. So, be the messenger. Tell him dad asked about him and nothing more. Don't sugar coat it and tell him dad loves you very much, blah blah. That is not what dad said. The impression your son has of his father should come from the effort his father makes, not things you told him you think your husband should have said. Don't give your husband more credit than he deserves. It will only cause you more trouble down the road. If he is old enough to ask why daddy hasn't called, don't make excuses. Tell him you don't know. Your son will eventually see him for the man he is. Age 5-6 was when mine started noticing something was off. By 7 there was no denying it. At age 21, the relationship is toast at the hands of dad.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> I agree with Ellie. Don't respond. He has done his pa jab at you by treating you no better than a babysitter he found in a newspaper ad. This message had nothing to do with checking on his son. He only wrote it because he wants to see how quickly you will respond, and secondly, to see how you will react. If you had responded with anger (which is what he is hoping for), then he could turn himself into the victim (cue violin music) and say "See, this is why I did not check in before now. Because I knew you were going to attack me. All I wanted was to see how my son was doing."


:iagree: 

I wander how he interpruted my silence... just curiosity.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I wander how he interpruted my silence... just curiosity.


Most likely he laughing at the fact that you think you can beat him at his own game. If he were to be gone longer, my guess for his next move would be to wait a few days and then send you an e-mail saying "I have not heard from you. Are you ok?". Even then, you shouldn't give in. It is a test. I fell for it once and approached cautiously.....and that was all it took.......me responding. The manipulation immediately started before the back and forth messaging was complete.


----------



## turnera

He thinks you are pathetic and uninformed.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> He thinks you are pathetic and uninformed.


Yes, you're probably right... and I guess that's his problem.


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> OK I resisted the urge! Didn't contact him at all  I don't think he cares but that's his problem... At least I didn't give in even though at one point I got scared, thinking: "he's gonna get mad if I don't respond" then I kicked that thought out of my head...
> 
> Yes, he's coming back late tomorrow night, I will be sure to be busy... and go to bed somewhat early so I wont be tempted to try and make conversation with him...


It's great to know you are thinking ahead in this way - anticipating possible problems and scenarios and how you'll react to them. If you should find yourself fighting the urge to go say something to him and/or feel conflicted/guilty, try bringing to mind a mantra to stop yourself in your tracks - maybe something like 

“I am right to only make conversation with people who treat me and my son right.” Repeat this to yourself any time you feel the urge to open your mouth.​
You've come a long way Linda and are to be congratulated on your progress thus far. :smthumbup: Keep being strong.


----------



## Ellie5

Just to echo Advocado's words - keep being strong - we're all rooting for you Linda.

Let us know how you get on with his return....... far more importantly, however, how you're doing with your trip  you deserve this time to look after and be kind to yourself.

Whether or not a new found strength from within you gives him the lightning shot he needs I'm hoping will be irrelevant - once you've had time to be by yourself and think about what it means for you to be happy.

Thinking of you.


----------



## Jellybeans

Troubledlinda said:


> When we first got married, we had sex on average once a week, then it moved to once a month (if I initiated, sometimes I got turned down or he wouldnt participate. He would just lay there like a doll) so I stopped initiating cause I couldn’t handle the rejection. Many times I tried to talk to him about it, but he doesn’t want to discuss it and sometimes gives me the silent treatment for days for bringing it up. With time it became once every 4 months… in the last 2 years we had sex once (8 months ago).


This isn't a loving marriage. (Obviously).
He won't sleep with you, won't talk to you, and is mean.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> “I am right to only make conversation with people who treat me and my son right.” Repeat this to yourself any time you feel the urge to open your mouth.​
> You've come a long way Linda and are to be congratulated on your progress thus far. :smthumbup: Keep being strong.


Thank you for that... I will keep it in my head and say it to myself when the need arises (the problem with me not making conversation with him, makes me feel like I'm also as guilty as he is at giving the ST... I know it is a bit twisted but that's what it feels like"

Yes, I'm making baby steps  and I do feel a tiny bit stronger...


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Just to echo Advocado's words - keep being strong - we're all rooting for you Linda.
> 
> Let us know how you get on with his return....... far more importantly, however, how you're doing with your trip  you deserve this time to look after and be kind to yourself.
> 
> Whether or not a new found strength from within you gives him the lightning shot he needs I'm hoping will be irrelevant - once you've had time to be by yourself and think about what it means for you to be happy.
> 
> Thinking of you.


To be honest, I have mixed feelings about this trip. 
I'm excited because going away is always exciting. I'm a bit anxious and sad about leaving my son. I am bit happy to have some time for myself. I am a bit nervous as I don't know what he thinks about me going on this trip... Bottom line is I am going and hopefully I'll feel good about it... 

Feeling the knot in my stomach.... he's gonna get home in about 2 hours...


----------



## Troubledlinda

Jellybeans said:


> This isn't a loving marriage. (Obviously).
> He won't sleep with you, won't talk to you, and is mean.


Yeah, we lack of the things needed for a marriage and those "things" are pretty basic... that makes me really sad...


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> me not making conversation with him, makes me feel like I'm also as guilty as he is


Not even close. And you know it. It's your niceness kicking in, and it's that same niceness that he depends on to keep you controlled.

Prove him wrong. Protect your son from him.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Not even close. And you know it. It's your niceness kicking in, and it's that same niceness that he depends on to keep you controlled.
> 
> Prove him wrong. Protect your son from him.


This all feels so wrong... At least I'm not crying anymore, which for me means progress... I'm trying to look at it from an outsider's perspective... the killer is when son asks about dad and talks about how strong dad is and how he wants to be just like dad and dad this and dad that.... and I feel like I'm gonna rob him of that (I know just my thoughts.... but they still work on me)


----------



## Troubledlinda

Just got a text message on my phone: 

"good evening. I just left the airport"

I didn't respond! Oh the knot in my belly


----------



## turnera

Go out for a walk or to a store, if you have to get away. Keep your car keys in your pocket, or money for transportation. You can do this!


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Go out for a walk or to a store, if you have to get away. Keep your car keys in your pocket, or money for transportation. You can do this!


Ok I couldn't leave the house cause my son is sleeping (it's almost 10:00PM here ) but I'm ok... He came in and just said "Hello, is son sleeping?" I just responded "hello, yes he's sleeping" (No sh$$t he's sleeping! did he really think he was gonna wait up for him?)

So I guess we just picked up where we left off before he left on tuesday... unbelievable!!!


----------



## turnera

linda, I think you think that he thinks about you more than he really does. I'm going to guess this is how he likes life, not having to 'spend' time or thought on you, and you matter about as much as the sofa in the living room.


----------



## Ellie5

turnera said:


> linda, I think you think that he thinks about you more than he really does. I'm going to guess this is how he likes life, not having to 'spend' time or thought on you, and you matter about as much as the sofa in the living room.


:iagree:

Linda, as tough as this sounds, Tunera is right.

Get out before you lose sight of yourself completely.


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> ... (the problem with me not making conversation with him, makes me feel like I'm also as guilty as he is at giving the ST... I know it is a bit twisted but that's what it feels like"
> 
> Yes, I'm making baby steps  and I do feel a tiny bit stronger...


I agree with Turnera - you feeling guilty plays right into his hands!

There is no need for you to feel guilty because you know you are the one who has repeatedly tried to resolve things, the one repeatedly trying to be reasonable, the one repeatedly trying work things out, the one repeatedly trying to find out what went wrong, and why, the one repeatedly begging, pleading for the silences to end ...... 

There is NO NEED FOR YOU TO FEEL GUILTY ABOUT NOT INITIATING CONVERSATION WITH A PERSON WHO HAS EMOTIONALLY ABUSED YOU FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS ON END.

So, please don't let unwarranted feeling of guilt stop you from sticking to your plans.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> So, please don't let unwarranted feeling of guilt stop you from sticking to your plans.


I wont change my plans... still leaving tonight... I reminded him this morning. 

"I'm leaving tonight, son will be staying with mom" he just replied "ok" and left for work... He won't be back by the time I leave so I guess his "OK" is all I got... oh well, what can one do!? 

Although it sucks, I have no choice but to get away for now anyways. (Maybe I'll feel happier once I get going and actually get there but for now it sucks and hurts)


----------



## Fleur de Cactus

Just go . Leave the narcissist . It wiill take time to heal . U will b happy without him . Good luck .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ellie5

Linda of course it hurts, it's horrid, he's horrid. The one person who's supposed to care for you isn't there. It's stomach churning, appetite suppressing, head messing, anxiety producing, just nasty.

You can't change him but you CAN change yourself (not for him, but for you). This change starts with the way you treat yourself.

I wouldn't have bothered reminding him. You don't need to be nasty but you don't need to be polite either. Why? Just go. Treat him like a stranger.

Would you want to stay in the house and have your H leave or would you prefer to live elsewhere with your son?

The situation you are in right now is toxic and extremely unhealthy for your mental and emotional health. 

How about staying with your family for love and support when you get back so you have some proper breathing space and time to get all your ducks in a row? then you can pave the way for your future not dependent on this abusive man.

With a child I would imagine you would be given the house and he would move out - have you looked into the law regarding this where you are? I think you might also be surprised at what your rights are - we have the Citizens Advice Bureau here in the UK which is a free service - do you have something similar out there?


----------



## SaltInWound

Linda, the reality is he won't miss you or your son in the way you will miss your husband and your son. Your husband is a narcissist. They feed off of people's misery. He only needs you around for your misery. And he needs your son around....someone who idolizes him, so that it can be used against you. That is what he will miss. And when he realizes he won't get that from you or your son anymore, he will easily move onto his next victims. Understand that this kind of people will eventually go after their own children. My stbx completely turned on our son and alienated him. 

This thread will give you a glimpse into a future for you and your son if you stay. It only gets worse. It is no way to live. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...live-passive-aggressive-spouse-long-term.html


----------



## Troubledlinda

So he sent me a text around noon just asking what time I would be leaving for the airport... I responded I'd'be leaving around 5:00pm. Around 4:[email protected] He sends me another text saying "I'm on my way home to say goodbye". So when he got home I was in the shower then getting ready... Before leaving he asked about son's'program and my itinarary so I vaguely told him... Then he asked me to sit down so we could talk for a minute...the conversation would be too long to type on my phone but I'm not sure what to make of it... He was basically saying that things are going downhill between us and of course my (Linda's') behavior has contributed a great deal from him being distant with me and blah blah blah... That I say horrible things to him that force him to shut down... 

Bottom line is we have to use this time apart to decide if we still want together or not... His biggest regret would be for our son as he loves him so very much and would hate to hurt him with all this... 

I told him that for us to remain together we both have some work to do until we recognize our faults and change, it will never work and I dont want to live like this anymore... 

Not sure what his point was in the conversation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> So he sent me a text around noon just asking what time I would be leaving for the airport... I responded I'd'be leaving around 5:00pm. Around 4:[email protected] He sends me another text saying "I'm on my way home to say goodbye". So when he got home I was in the shower then getting ready... Before leaving he asked about son's'program and my itinarary so I vaguely told him... Then he asked me to sit down so we could talk for a minute...the conversation would be too long to type on my phone but I'm not sure what to make of it... He was basically saying that things are going downhill between us and of course my (Linda's') behavior has contributed a great deal from him being distant with me and blah blah blah... That I say horrible things to him that force him to shut down...
> 
> Bottom line is we have to use this time apart to decide if we still want together or not... His biggest regret would be for our son as he loves him so very much and would hate to hurt him with all this...
> 
> I told him that for us to remain together we both have some work to do until we recognize our faults and change, it will never work and I dont want to live like this anymore...
> 
> Not sure what his point was in the conversation?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh thats awesome...blameshifting at its finest! Sheesh. His point of this conversation was to let you know that "he" has the upper hand here, and everything bad is your fault. He isnt going to change a damn thing, he has made that clear.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Troubledlinda said:


> Then he asked me to sit down so we could talk for a minute...
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I get it...he doesn't like it when the Silent Treatment is used right back on him....

Good job Linda, keep it up!


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Not sure what his point was in the conversation?


That's easy.

You were about to leave on an INDEPENDENT trip where you weren't hanging on his every word (or lack of), where you wouldn't be pining away for him, where you might actually (ghasp!) ENJOY YOURSELF without him and realize you CAN be happy away from him.

So he had to regain his control over you by putting the fear of God in you, to ruin your week, to rope you back in and make you obsess about pleasing him...so he won't leave you.

He blamed you for everything and then said 'we' need to think if we should be together; psychologically speaking, he was grooming you. 

And you surprised him by AGREEING with him.

Just watch; you're gonna get all kinds of texts or calls from him this week, if he doesn't even show up where you are.


----------



## turnera

I almost married a narcissist, who was in college while I was in high school. At one point, after a year of dating, he told me "I don't think you're mature enough for me. You've got a lot of work to do. I'm gonna have to reassess this relationship in 6 more months to see if I still want to be with you."

Of course, idiot me, I wept and begged and promised him everything, if he would only just keep me. 

Gag me.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> So he sent me a text around noon just asking what time I would be leaving for the airport... I responded I'd'be leaving around 5:00pm. Around 4:[email protected] He sends me another text saying "I'm on my way home to say goodbye". So when he got home I was in the shower then getting ready... Before leaving he asked about son's'program and my itinarary so I vaguely told him... Then he asked me to sit down so we could talk for a minute...the conversation would be too long to type on my phone but I'm not sure what to make of it... He was basically saying that things are going downhill between us and of course my (Linda's') behavior has contributed a great deal from him being distant with me and blah blah blah... That I say horrible things to him that force him to shut down...
> 
> Bottom line is we have to use this time apart to decide if we still want together or not... His biggest regret would be for our son as he loves him so very much and would hate to hurt him with all this...
> 
> I told him that for us to remain together we both have some work to do until we recognize our faults and change, it will never work and I dont want to live like this anymore...
> 
> Not sure what his point was in the conversation?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dance puppet, dance.

Did you notice how he is using your son as a chess piece?


----------



## Ellie5

Linda it's all about control.

You're now off for a week so where does this leave his control? he has no audience for ST.

He gets a big dig in before you leave about splitting up - I mean, really, now? just before you're about to go off and enjoy yourself? that's timely given he's had 2 months. Two months in the same house - er, hello?

I hope you see through this, ignore any contact he may make whilst you're away. Make him run through burning hoops once you're home before taking your next step.

I hear what you're saying about not wanting to be the bad guy yourself (eye for an eye and all that), but all the while you respond to him when he seeks contact you're playing into his hands.

Be unavailable for a change.


----------



## turnera

While you're there, get this book and read it. I think it will help give you some perspective; you can get it most anywhere.

The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships: Harriet Lerner: 9780060741044: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## Troubledlinda

About to take off! Paris, here I come !!! 
Thanks everyone for all your supportive comments!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> When I first got the email, my first reaction was: oh let me dial his number and put my son on the phone so he can speak to his daddy (I wanted to do this more for son than for H)... then I thought no ways, that's just too easy... So I didn't do it and I don't think I will...
> 
> Yeah, no consideration for me... as you say, he can't even call me by my name... a simple hello, as if.... whatever!



To Linda & everyone,

I have to break ranks a bit because I dislike the direction the advice in this thread is going. I know you all well-mean well, but everything is geared toward getting the upper hand, getting control, playing games where you "win" by doing the 180 and acting like you don't care, etc.

But it's an *ACT*. Just because the husband behaves like a jerk, doesn't mean that Linda should do the same. There is another way to "win" other than beating him at his own game, and that's playing a different game altogether. Linda, you can still be honest with him, without groveling.

As for the email, I would have replied to it by saying: "if you want to know how your son is doing, call him yourself". 




Troubledlinda said:


> He was basically saying that things are going downhill between us and of course my (Linda's') behavior has contributed a great deal from him being distant with me and blah blah blah... That I say horrible things to him that force him to shut down...


You could have simply asked him what "horrible things" was he referring to? Remind him that any relationship will fail if one partner decides to stop speaking for two months, and won't even tell anyone what the problem is! 




> _Not sure what his point was in the conversation?_


Since you don't give us many details of the conversation, that's difficult to say. The cynic in me says he is trying to lay the groundwork for divorce. But at least he talked which is a good start.

Good luck on your trip!


----------



## turnera

Theseus, I'll assume you've never been the victim of long-term mental abuse.


----------



## northernlights

Linda, enjoy Paris!!


----------



## Theseus

turnera said:


> Theseus, I'll assume you've never been the victim of long-term mental abuse.



If you disagree with me then please tell us how and why. It's that simple. I *REALLY* don't appreciate you making guesses about my personal life. It's not helpful, and also hijacks the thread. Not to mention it's none of your business.

So now I am curious about why you think it is useful for the OP to try to beat her husband at his own game of ignoring each other. Even if the OP "wins" here, what does she win exactly? Is the focus on saving the marriage or revenge against a lout of a husband? She certainly shouldn't reward his behavior, but she also doesn't have to stoop to his level either. 

This sounds like the lines from the Taylor Swift song "Story of Us": 
"..._This is looking like a contest,
Of who can act like they care less,
But I liked it better when you were on my side.
The battle's in your hands now,
But I would lay my armor down
If you said you'd rather love than fight.
So many things that you wished I knew,
But the story of us might be ending soon.

Now I'm standing alone in a crowded room and we're not speaking,
And I'm dying to know is it killing you like it's killing me, yeah?
I don't know what to say, since the twist of fate when it all broke down,
And the story of us looks a lot like a tragedy now, now, now._."
TAYLOR SWIFT LYRICS - The Story Of Us

As you can see, it didn't turn out too well in the song, either.


----------



## turnera

Glad to. First, I assume what I assume because if you'd ever been the victim, you would understand that (1) she isn't strong enough to 'just talk to him,' because of the years of abuse and (2) 'just talking to him' doesn't work with an abuser. I guarantee she has 'talked to him' thousands of times. If you had been a victim of abuse, you'd be understanding this. Instead, you just see a man being ... what? Treated poorly?

When a woman has been mentally abused, she loses all sense of self, all self esteem, all belief that she is capable of making rational, CORRECT decisions. That's what mental abuse does - it removes your belief in yourself. Imagine yourself having to duke it out with a 300-lb linebacker - do you believe you would win a fight? No, you don't. You have NO faith that you could deal with this person and come out alive, or not in the ER. 

That's what a woman feels like when having to deal with a husband who has been torturing her to the extent that this man has. Every month of her marriage has been filled with wondering what she did wrong, wondering what she needs to change to finally make him happy, hating herself for not being good enough to keep him from giving her the silent treatment.

To ask a woman in that position to 'just tell him the truth' is like asking you to look at the linebacker and say 'I bet you can't break my bones.' You may believe you may have a CHANCE at coming out alive, but deep down you are terrified.

And if you'd been dealing with that linebacker and his crazy attacks on you for years, you would no longer believe you have any chance of coming out alive. 

There IS no 'just talking to him' in this situation. Maybe her mother could just talk to him, or her brother in law, but her? Kind of hard to expect her to be able to.

Your logic is sound, when it doesn't involve abuse. Because it DOES involve abuse, it not only won't work, it will result in her getting hurt even more.

And this doesn't even address the fact that HIS way of dealing is to manipulate and control and, therefore, 'just talking to him' gives him the opportunity to use her niceness AT her, to gain more control.


----------



## Theseus

turnera said:


> Glad to. First, I assume what I assume because if you'd ever been the victim, you would understand that (1) she isn't strong enough to 'just talk to him,' because of the years of abuse and (2) 'just talking to him' doesn't work with an abuser.


Then you *totally* misunderstood me. If she doesn't want to talk to him, then she shouldn't talk to him. Simple! What I dislike is all the calls of "be strong, resist the urge talk to him, pretend like you don't care", because it's a childish act, like who can hold their breath the longest. This isn't a game for someone to win. 



> _ I guarantee she has 'talked to him' thousands of times. If you had been a victim of abuse, you'd be understanding this. Instead, you just see a man being ... what? Treated poorly?_


 What????? Where the hell do you get that from? On the contrary, I think the OP has treated her husband too well! If you bother to look through this thread you will see I've been quite consistent about that.


----------



## Ellie5

Theseus I hear you, really I do. In an ideal world what you're saying makes perfect sense.

Yet, how can you reason with someone who hasn't spoken to you for two months? It's emotional abuse - that is not something you can easily *respond* to.

Encouraging Linda to take back her control is for her own sanity, not to fight fire with fire, but in order that she can start to build her self-esteem back up and not depend on this man.

The general essence of this thread I see, is people posting words of encouragement and support to a woman who has been abused. 

When these men behave like children, how else do we treat them? An emotionally mature adult has the ability to discuss problems, not spend months pouting and sulking. 

The fact is - here she is - finally taking an independent stance and going away to enjoy herself for a mere week - he chooses this moment to speak? 

I believe you'll be in a far stronger position to comment when you have been the direct recipient of someone who has subjected you to Silent Treatment. I have. Linda has. The women within this thread have. I agree with Tunera, your logic is sound when it doesn't involve abuse.


----------



## Theseus

Ellie5 said:


> I believe you'll be in a far stronger position to comment when you have been the direct recipient of someone who has subjected you to Silent Treatment. I have. Linda has. The women within this thread have.



*AND I HAVE AS WELL*. It almost cost me my marriage as a matter of fact. How could you know this? Well, I discussed it in some detail on the very first page of this thread! 

Go to this link right here:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...sion/117433-silent-treatment.html#post4126153

Sheesh!


----------



## Ellie5

Not looking for a fight Theseus.

We are all entitled to our views. I'm sorry about your marriage.


----------



## Ellie5

PS, sorry I missed your post admittedly - having read it however, I still agree with the majority of posters on this thread. The poor woman needs a break!


----------



## turnera

His Needs Her Needs is an amazing book about how to have a happy, healthy, respectful marriage. Widely recognized. Its author, Dr. Harley, states that he doesn't want people who are being abused to use his material - being respectful, turning the other cheek, etc. - or to teach it to their spouse, because an abuser will take the information or actions and turn them around and further harm the victim.


----------



## Theseus

Ellie5 said:


> We are all entitled to our views. I'm sorry about your marriage.


Don't be. Today my marriage is in the strongest place it's ever been.



Ellie5 said:


> PS, sorry I missed your post admittedly - having read it however, I still agree with the majority of posters on this thread. The poor woman needs a break!


I never argued with that. In fact, I'm happy the OP is getting away for awhile. I said in my original comment that the silent treatment loses all its power when no one is around to "hear" it.


----------



## Ellie5

Theseus said:


> I said in my original comment that the silent treatment loses all its power when no one is around to "hear" it.


Absolutely. And let's hope Linda is having a blast!


----------



## Troubledlinda

Hello everyone! 

Wow! I'm reading through your posts and can feel some tension here, ouch. 

I'm doing ok and feeling "relaxed"... H hasn't tried to contact me at all today and didn't even respond to this text I sent saying that I arrived salefy... I know he's having dinner at my parents right now, visiting them and son... curious to hear about that. 

I'm still trying to figure out the point of him trying to have that conversation with me just before leaving, when time was limited and mind was all over the place, thinking of a thousand things at the same time... and now the ST continues...


----------



## turnera

linda, no offense, but I don't think you're particularly dumb. So why do you STILL need to figure out his meaning? Do you not believe us?


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> linda, no offense, but I don't think you're particularly dumb. So why do you STILL need to figure out his meaning? Do you not believe us?


I do believe and no I'm not dumb.... but believing doesn't mean you can't try to figure it out, to try to understand the reasoning behind the actions... For my own sanity I feel like I need to understand... I don't know if this makes sense... I know those books and articles will help me, at least to some extent.


----------



## Jellybeans

It's normal to want to understand... but at a base level, I can tell you, 100%... why does he do it? The reason why he does it is very simple: because he wants to.

And once you realize that he chooses freely to treat you in this way, to stonewall you, to ignore you, to cause you pain by blanking you and pretending as if you are not there and gets pleasure from punishing you through his silence (remember, this way, he feels he has the upper hand)--once you can see that he does it of his own free will and volition and that he does it PURPOSELY and WILFULLY, then whatever mystery he has is going to start to crack. (The mystery of you trying to understand why).

I used to beat myself up a lot about trying to figure out the WHY and then I realized, it wasn't about me. It was about him. 

People who cannot give their partner the basic decency of human interactions/speaking to them/ treating them as a human being that they love, do not have much empathy, Linda. 

Once you can start to see that about him, it is going to make your skin crawl and feel disgusted.


----------



## Ellie5

Linda I'm sorry but texting him has done nothing but made you feel more miserable - did you expect him to respond? 

Please go have a good time!


----------



## Blondilocks

"when time was limited and mind was all over the place, thinking of a thousand things at the same time."

This is the point. He really didn't want to have a conversation so he picked this time to get in his digs and throw you off balance.

It's very possible even he doesn't know the whys and hows of his mental processes. It isn't important for you to understand the whys and hows as they may be unknowable. What is important is for you to recognize that you cannot continue to live this way and teach your son that this is acceptable behavior. Think of your son.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> I do believe and no I'm not dumb.... but believing doesn't mean you can't try to figure it out, to try to understand the reasoning behind the actions... For my own sanity I feel like I need to understand... I don't know if this makes sense... I know those books and articles will help me, at least to some extent.


Linda, you could have read a 100 online articles by now about abusive men, and understood what you're dealing with.

This is YOUR choice.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Linda, you could have read a 100 online articles by now about abusive men, and understood what you're dealing with.
> 
> This is YOUR choice.


Thank you Turnera, I am educating myself on the topic both by reading articles on the internet and learning from the experience of everybody who shared on this site about being treated the same way I have been treated... This is all new to me and yes I know that I am the one who dictates the treatment I will accept or not from others but this is not something you just read about and figure out and make decisions just like that... I wish it was that simple.


----------



## turnera

Surely you've read enough by now, then, to understand that your husband does NOT have your best interests at heart. That he makes choices to make HIM feel better, that there is NOTHING to understand about why he called a family meeting other than to make HIM feel better by putting the fear back in you. You keep talking about him like he CARES about you, and why would a caring husband DO this? Come on, you know better by now. You are in a war.


----------



## Advocado

It took me a long long time to realise I had to change and stop "playing" the silent treatment victim game dictated to me by others. 

It took a long time to develop the strength and resolve to change my usual responses which did nothing but earn me more silent treatment. 

And once I did start to change it took alot of strength to stop myself reverting to my previous self defeating ways. 

I wish I had had people to encourage, enlighten and support me to be strong and I believe Linda can lead a much happier existence once she develops and fully utilises her innate hidden strength.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> It took me a long long time to realise I had to change and stop "playing" the silent treatment victim game dictated to me by others.
> 
> It took a long time to develop the strength and resolve to change my usual responses which did nothing but earn me more silent treatment.
> 
> And once I did start to change it took alot of strength to stop myself reverting to my previous self defeating ways.
> 
> I wish I had had people to encourage, enlighten and support me to be strong and I believe Linda can lead a much happier existence once she develops and fully utilises her innate hidden strength.


Advocado, 

From memory, I don't remember if you left your spouse or if the silent treament stopped because of how you've changed your reactions to it, or MC? Sorry, could you please just refresh my memory? 

Thanks


----------



## Advocado

Advocado said:


> We are still together but we now live by time limited cooling off periods rather than indefinite silent treatment when there is conflict. He struggled with making the change but he has tried real hard, for which I have to give him credit. (Breaking the habit of a life time, learned from childhood is not easy.) And I have made it plain that I WILL NEVER go back to the way it used to be.
> 
> I now know that quite simply the main reason he gave me the silent treatment over and over was because I let him get away with it. When asked he has admitted that life is better now that we don't engage in everlasting silences over "nothing".
> 
> Linda - It's important you continue with getting ready, and please continue to fortify yourself with the positive affirmations (I am worthy etc.)


_eventually _we had some MC, but I had started to make changes before MC. From what you say your H is much more challenging than mine where silent abuse is concerned, which is why I must encourage u to be strong.


Linda - hope you got my PM


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado;
Linda - hope you got my PM[/QUOTE said:


> Yes I did and I responded but it seems like my message got lost somewhere... did you receive?


----------



## bailingout

Linda, I have been reading this thread and am very sorry for your situation.

There is no answer to the question you seek. Why? does he do this. 

Stop looking for it or you will drive yourself completely nuts.

Please do one of 2 things....
Stop thinking about your H and enjoy your trip to the best of your ability, make it the most amazing thing you've ever experienced. You can deal with your H when you get home. Other than your son, disconnect from everything but your trip.

OR--if you must keep connecting to the computer

Research everything you can about the 180 and detaching with love. It's your only hope my friend, but you can get yourself through this regardless of what happens with him.

Peace and good luck.


----------



## Ellie5

Hey Linda, hope you're enjoying your trip.

I think the process of letting go will begin when YOU stop caring for him. 

I'm hoping you haven't tried to reach out with further texts or contact. 

It's hard to accept when a partner has stopped caring/feeling for you but we have to move on, cry, grieve, do whatever we need to do and know that even all the hurt we go through is temporary.

I read a lovely quote yesterday that went something along the lines of "New beginnings are often disguised as painful endings". Just a thought.


----------



## Openminded

People do what they do because they can. We obviously can't change who they are. But we can decide if we want to continue to put up with their behavior. And we have to accept we will never understand them.


----------



## Advocado

Regarding him phoning to speak to your son when son is with grandparents but not when son is home with you - how galling that his only interest is to be seen to be all good in other peoples eyes - keeping up appearances but no regard for your feelings! 

So can I take it that your parents know he never contacts you/his son when he is away from home. If yes, does he know they know?


----------



## turnera

Excellent point, Advocado; never even caught that. He pretends to her parents to be SuperDad. Linda, have you told your parents what he does to you? Maybe it's time.


----------



## SaltInWound

Advocado said:


> Regarding him phoning to speak to your son when son is with grandparents but not when son is home with you - *how galling that his only interest is to be seen to be all good in other peoples eyes* - keeping up appearances but no regard for your feelings!
> 
> So can I take it that your parents know he never contacts you/his son when he is away from home. If yes, does he know they know?


narcissist. He got a double shot of self esteem with same action having positive and negative response. People think he is a great dad for checking on his kid, and at the same time, linda finds out about it, knowing he never does the same with her, and that makes her upset (at least that is the response he is hoping for).


----------



## SaltInWound

turnera said:


> Excellent point, Advocado; never even caught that. He pretends to her parents to be SuperDad. Linda, have you told your parents what he does to you? Maybe it's time.


I agree. They should know.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Hey Linda, hope you're enjoying your trip.
> 
> I'm hoping you haven't tried to reach out with further texts or contact.


Hi Ellie, 

No, I have not contacted him other than the first text I sent to say I arrived safely... and he has not made contact either. 

As Theseus had mentionned before, I am starting to believe that he really doesn't want to be with me but doesn't have the courage to say it... He would be happier if I just left so he can be the victim and me the bad guy.... 

I am feeling ok and relaxed....


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> Regarding him phoning to speak to your son when son is with grandparents but not when son is home with you - how galling that his only interest is to be seen to be all good in other peoples eyes - keeping up appearances but no regard for your feelings!
> 
> So can I take it that your parents know he never contacts you/his son when he is away from home. If yes, does he know they know?


Exactly, I find this really cruel.... 

My parents know me very well and noticed early on that I had changed and was "trying to look happy" and at the beginning I blamed it on my pregnancy and when baby was born, I blamed it on baby blues and making excuses all the time... But last year, when on ST for 6 weeks, I broke and told them what was going on so they know everything... 

So now, everytime he calls or visits, my mom is quick to let me know... they find it so very strange how nice he can be around them and what I report to them about his behavior at home...


----------



## Jellybeans

Troubledlinda said:


> So now, everytime he calls or visits, my mom is quick to let me know... they find it so very strange how nice he can be around them and what I report to them about his behavior at home...


This is what abusers do. It's actually very common. It's textbook Abusers 101.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> I agree. They should know.


They know of his behavior at home... we just haven't described it as "emotional abuse"


----------



## Jellybeans

Did you leave him yet? Where is this story at now?


----------



## *LittleDeer*

He is definitely abusive. It's emotional abuse. 

My ex BF did this to me amongst other things. It's very crushing. 

I would suggest counselling for you to help you move on. 

Good luck.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Jellybeans said:


> Did you leave him yet? Where is this story at now?


Have not left him... I just went on a little trip for a week... 
Before leaving, we agreed to take this week to think if we really want to continue together or break up...


----------



## marshmallow

Thinking of you, Troubledlinda! I believe you deserve better than this.


----------



## Ellie5

Hey Linda, 

So, the cherry on the cake is that he's also a coward as well as an abuser - are you secretly hoping he'll pull through and want to make a go of things? I think it's natural to want the security a marriage can offer, the arms of a loving man etc etc, but he's proved to you over agonizing, yes AGONIZING months, he not only lacks any regard for your feelings, hopes and desires, but he doesn't have the balls to end it.

I still think you're giving this man too much credit - "we're using this week to decide if we still want to be together" - really? why do you want to be with him?

What has he done to earn your love over the past few months? he's not trying at all. Snake like behaviour playing the good guy when you're not around.

Do you have a plan when you return? and have you looked in to your rights?


----------



## Ellie5

PS. Out of interest Linda, exactly how many times has he subjected you to ST? over the course of your relationship since you met?

I'm struggling to understand how you got through last year's 6 weeks without there being consequences for him back then.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> They know of his behavior at home... we just haven't described it as "emotional abuse"


 Isn't it about time you did?


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Have not left him... I just went on a little trip for a week...
> Before leaving, we agreed to take this week to think if we really want to continue together or break up...


Just to clarify...

You two didn't 'agree' to think if you want to stay together. He MANIPULATED you 2 or 3 hours before you went away for a week by WARNING you that you might lose him, so that you would spend the week in misery, worried about him leaving you.

Unfortunately for him, you're getting educated on the abuse he's dishing out, and didn't (I hope!) leave for the airport in tears after begging him not to leave you, like he expected you to do. He's probably worrying more than YOU are at this point.


----------



## SaltInWound

turnera said:


> Just to clarify...
> 
> You two didn't 'agree' to think if you want to stay together. He MANIPULATED you 2 or 3 hours before you went away for a week by WARNING you that you might lose him, so that you would spend the week in misery, worried about him leaving you.


Yes, yes, and yes. He is sitting back not giving any of this a second thought. In his mind, there is nothing to think about. He has told you how it is going to be. His way or the highway. End of story.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Hey Linda,
> 
> So, the cherry on the cake is that he's also a coward as well as an abuser - are you secretly hoping he'll pull through and want to make a go of things? I think it's natural to want the security a marriage can offer, the arms of a loving man etc etc, but he's proved to you over agonizing, yes AGONIZING months, he not only lacks any regard for your feelings, hopes and desires, but he doesn't have the balls to end it.
> 
> I still think you're giving this man too much credit - "we're using this week to decide if we still want to be together" - really? why do you want to be with him?
> 
> What has he done to earn your love over the past few months? he's not trying at all. Snake like behaviour playing the good guy when you're not around.
> 
> Do you have a plan when you return? and have you looked in to your rights?


I think you are right... all of you are right... Yes, I am holding on to the thoughts and the memories of us... and as you say, it's natural to want the security a marriage can offer, the arms of a loving man etc etc even though I don't get that from him.

I find it very hard to let go, accept that my marriage is a failure, that I will have to be alone for some time... that my son will askk for his daddy... It is really so hard.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> PS. Out of interest Linda, exactly how many times has he subjected you to ST? over the course of your relationship since you met?
> 
> I'm struggling to understand how you got through last year's 6 weeks without there being consequences for him back then.


To be honest, I have lost count... it started pretty much as soon as we got married (next month will be our 4th anniversary) Some have lasted a day or two, some have lasted a few days, last year wa the longest (6 weeks) for the first time I thought of leaving... there was no consequence for his ST... After I wrote him a long email about how I felt about his ST, it took about another week before he spoke to me... 

I feel really dumb right now... for allowing this over and over...


----------



## Jellybeans

Ellie--the thing is, even if there were "consequences" this guy is a narcissist and emotionally abusive. They do not care. That is what the bottom line is. So even if she told him, Look I am tired of this BULL and this is the last time it happens, he would keep doing it. He is not going to change unless HE WANTS TO.

And the thing with abusers is that they don't see anything wrong with what they are doing. 

They simply DO NOT CARE.


----------



## Jellybeans

Troubledlinda said:


> After I wrote him a long email about how I felt about his ST, it took about another week before he spoke to me...



It gets worse over time. Promise.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> I feel really dumb right now... for allowing this over and over...


Just shows you are growing and improving, Linda. Women don't dream as little girls about finding a nice jerk to bring them to tears every other week. They think that men are going to treat them right. It usually takes many years of abuse - and blaming YOURSELF - before it starts occurring to you that HE may actually not BE nice. Don't beat yourself up. 

The key thing to remember is that you don't HAVE to be someone's victim. You don't have to settle for crumbs and crying and not getting love and affection. There are millions of men out there, Linda. Most of them would NEVER treat you like he does. You CAN do better, and you CAN find a man who can become a wonderful male role model for him and become his 'second father' who he will grow up to love and emulate. His dad will always be his dad, but given that his dad barely even acknowledges his existence - which isn't likely to change - leaving now, and improving yourself so you don't pick another abuser, and then finding a new man to love, is what I hope for you.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Just to clarify...
> 
> You two didn't 'agree' to think if you want to stay together. He MANIPULATED you 2 or 3 hours before you went away for a week by WARNING you that you might lose him, so that you would spend the week in misery, worried about him leaving you.
> 
> Unfortunately for him, you're getting educated on the abuse he's dishing out, and didn't (I hope!) leave for the airport in tears after begging him not to leave you, like he expected you to do. He's probably worrying more than YOU are at this point.


No, I didn't leave crying... I didn't like where the conversation was going so I got up, kissed (peck) him and said I had to go and left... didn't contact him until a few hours after I got here... 
I didn't beg him not to leave me... I just said "think well while I'm gone"

Him worried, I don't think so... 

He did say that for him it was over as of last year when I pointed my fork at him and insulted him but when I asked why he was still around then, he didn't have a response... Just said he feels sad for son... pffff


----------



## Ellie5

Linda I totally empathize with your need to write as you did previously - we want to talk, communicate, understand. Sadly it's all in vain and you're wasting your time. I wrote several emails to my H when he subjected me to ST and they were laughed at! (yeah, stick the knife in deeper).

JB - my H has previously subjected me to ST and there were consequences - as a result he hasn't tried it since. Every case is different. Fortunately for me I made it clear I'd use that time to go on holiday - whatever I said or did worked, as he hasn't pulled that stunt again (the most was 2 weeks in my case and that was long enough!). 

I do believe Linda's H is in a totally different league to my H. It's way beyond excessive - and as the W, we can't deny that to a great extent, we *allow* the behaviour if we don't do anything about it (whether that's in leaving, ignoring, whatever).

Linda please the most important thing is that you don't beat yourself up - we can still recognize we have feelings and ultimately, in an ideal world, he would change - and you'd go merrily skipping off into the sunset together.

However, this has gone on for so long I think your options are running out - and running low.

You are clearly a loving, giving and very sweet person. I'm just sad for you that it's wasted on a man who doesn't deserve it.


----------



## Troubledlinda

To be honest, it would be easier for him to just leave me... I don't feel the stength and the courage right now to do it.... Stop abusing me and leave me...


----------



## Jellybeans

Or you could stop subjecting yourself to it and take a stand yourself.

Don't have to wait for him to do everything.

My ex told me that I was not allowed to leave until he did, or "you go when I go." 

Whatever. 

I left.

I have one daddy and has never treated me like that.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Jellybeans said:


> Or you could stop subjecting yourself to it and take a stand yourself.
> 
> Don't have to wait for him to do everything.
> 
> My ex told me that I was not allowed to leave until he did, or "you go when I go."
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> I left.
> 
> I have one daddy and has never treated me like that.


You're right!


----------



## Ellie5

Linda

Two scenarios:

1. You stay. You also stay miserable. All sense of self erodes. How many years are you prepared to do this?

2. You leave. It's painful (temporary). You're free to meet a loving man. You pat yourself on the back for having the strength to do it.

I read your earlier post whereby you said you kissed him on the cheek when you left - WHY???? he went off on a business trip, emailed you four words without even using your name. Came home. Had a dig about splitting before your own trip - and then you kissed him???

Linda I'm in two minds with this - I'd love to give you a really big hug and the other part of me wants to shake you and say "wake up" (in the kindest of ways).


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> I do believe Linda's H is in a totally different league to my H. It's way beyond excessive - and as the W, we can't deny that to a great extent, we *allow* the behaviour if we don't do anything about it (whether that's in leaving, ignoring, whatever).
> 
> You are clearly a loving, giving and very sweet person. I'm just sad for you that it's wasted on a man who doesn't deserve it.


I have never heard of anything quite like this before... I've heard and seen physical abuse but this... Never! I just don't understand how anybody can be like this.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda
> 
> 
> Linda I'm in two minds with this - I'd love to give you a really big hug and the other part of me wants to shake you and say "wake up" (in the kindest of ways).


Once I finally make the decision, I will feel free... I just can't get myself to "pull the plug"... 

This back and forth about staying or leaving is driving me crazy.


----------



## turnera

Ellie5 said:


> Linda
> 
> Two scenarios:
> 
> 1. You stay. You also stay miserable. All sense of self erodes. How many years are you prepared to do this?


Don't forget to add to this scenario:

You become SO depressed you can no longer care for your child, and you decide he would be better off if you were dead. So you take your own life because you have no one else in your life to help you. 

My next door neighbor (who I'm convinced is abusive), had a daughter married to an abusive man. After the millionth fight (and YOU are not even doing THAT), she said if you don't stop, I'm going to kill myself. He said, "go ahead." So she did.

And he had the NERVE to come to the funeral.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> He did say that for him it was over as of last year when I pointed my fork at him and insulted him but when I asked why he was still around then, he didn't have a response... *Just said he feels sad for son*... pffff


Don't fall for that [email protected] My stbxh, right after telling me he wanted a divorce, gave his first reason as being "Maybe we stated together for [our son]." Immediately after he went to our son (college aged) and told him "I have wanted to leave your mom several times, but you are older now." Funny, he never told me anything about wanting to leave. Son and I would like for him to explain why, if he only stayed because of son, that he has since told our son "I will be a dad to [wh0re's kid] that I wasn't to you" and why he has gone dark on our son. People like my husband and your husband.........the kid means nothing. Sorry, but that is the reality. He most likely is only around because you are his punching bag, the kid gives him a chess piece to use against you, and both of you give him the upstanding husband/father facade he needs for work. Toss him. Don't wait for him to do it to you.


----------



## Ellie5

Linda let go of your need to understand him. You'll drive yourself NUTS.

Hugs


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Don't forget to add to this scenario:
> 
> You become SO depressed you can no longer care for your child, and you decide he would be better off if you were dead. So you take your own life because you have no one else in your life to help you.
> 
> My next door neighbor (who I'm convinced is abusive), had a daughter married to an abusive man. After the millionth fight (and YOU are not even doing THAT), she said if you don't stop, I'm going to kill myself. He said, "go ahead." So she did.
> 
> And he had the NERVE to come to the funeral.


Ooooh, how sad. 
I have to admit something and this is partly the reason why I am holding on to this... I am afraid of being alone... I know there is millions of men out there but I somehow feel like I will end up alone even though there is nothing wrong with me... I'm pretty, smart, funny, good education, loving, caring, loyal, faithful but my self-esteem is so low I feel like nobody like me


----------



## bailingout

Troubledlinda said:


> To be honest, it would be easier for him to just leave me... I don't feel the stength and the courage right now to do it.... Stop abusing me and leave me...


Linda- it's unlikely he will do you the favor and just leave you. If you're so horrible and this is all your fault he would have left you already. He is doing exactly what abusers do--repeatedly beat you up (emotionally/psychologically) so you are soooo weak that you will not leave him. It's likely his biggest fear despite his actions. It's how they operate and because you may actually love him, you keep trying and trying while losing all sense of yourself as time goes on. 

No one is saying you have to just up and leave but you have to figure out how to get yourself stronger so you can leave. Maybe a week, a month, a year, whatever it takes...start working on you.

Learn as much as you can on how to deal the daggars he throws at you so you can recognize them and figure out how to make them bounce off you like rubber. You can do it. There are a few on here who are still with their abuser (me included) but we are working on finding ourselves and getting our strength back from years of crap.

Need to start working on your boundaries and putting them into play.


----------



## Ellie5

bailingout said:


> Linda- it's unlikely he will do you the favor and just leave you. If you're so horrible and this is all your fault he would have left you already. He is doing exactly what abusers do--repeatedly beat you up (emotionally/psychologically) so you are soooo weak that you will not leave him. It's likely his biggest fear despite his actions. It's how they operate and because you may actually love him, you keep trying and trying while losing all sense of yourself as time goes on.
> 
> No one is saying you have to just up and leave but you have to figure out how to get yourself stronger so you can leave. Maybe a week, a month, a year, whatever it takes...start working on you.
> 
> Learn as much as you can on how to deal the daggars he throws at you so you can recognize them and figure out how to make them bounce off you like rubber. You can do it. There are a few on here who are still with their abuser (me included) but we are working on finding ourselves and getting our strength back from years of crap.
> 
> Need to start working on your boundaries and putting them into play.


:iagree: 

Wonderful post BailingOut


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Once I finally make the decision, I will feel free... I just can't get myself to "pull the plug"...
> 
> This back and forth about staying or leaving is driving me crazy.


He is a dirty tub of water. Time to pull the plug. Jump. Jump with both feet. You are just scared of what is on the other side. Don't live life thinking the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. Try not to focus on "How can someone be like that". If you dwell on it, you will keep yourself paralyzed waiting for him to change. I know I did and it put me in deep depression. You can ask Ellie. She knows my story. I thought, surely he must just not be thinking clearly. Surely he wouldn't do this to me and our son. All he needs is to absorb what I am saying and he will "get it" and be a better person to us. Nope! I had to stop asking "how could he do this". There is no explanation. I had to forget about him and why this was happening. I had to save myself.


----------



## Wise Fairy

TL

I really feel for you I know how sad you are inside, going away was a major step and move on your part even if just for a break. 

I am going through something similar now, my ex showed up at my house at the weekend all seemed great did stuff went places like we usually do, said he missed and loved me, helped me and some friends with electrical work at my house I thought he did some kind of 360 on me so my barriers went down. 

Guess what he pulled away and gave the ST just like before a few days later, I can't believe it here we are again it was just over the fact that I spoke to people a really sweet couple actually at the weekend. 

I found myself apologizing and trying to justify the fact that I was speaking to a man that was in Stage 4 cancer and was sharing concern for him his wife was there too. This bothered him can you actually believe this crap and grudge holding. I guess the attention wasn't on him, he said it bothered him, no he was his insecure self and showed that side but tried his blame shifting. 

They are N's alright, they will hold everything and won't forget anything either, you know exactly what I am saying is true, just like you with the fork. Well stick a fork in me Linda as I am done as you should be too. 

I said to you before do you want your son growing up around this? Honestly believe me now when I say it doesn't get better, in fact mine is getting worse. I need strength and courage now to let go, and drop him hard. ray:

You should be having fun and enjoying yourself and your bit of freedom, wish I was there actually myself. 

We have such big hearts, we are compassionate and empathetic, they are the opposite cold, aloof, unemotional it makes me sick now in my situation that I allowed him in the door I didn't invite him either he just showed up. 

This behavior from him is learnt early on, and he has carried it on into his adult life it's a fact, alienation is all he knows with ST, it's almost a sick puppy that there is no cure for.

Is this the type of love you want really it's ok because you are not alone I am asking myself and beating myself up over the same question how can I love a man like this?

Find a bit of peace somewhere in you and find some strength for your son. 

J


----------



## Blondilocks

Troubledlinda said:


> Ooooh, how sad.
> I have to admit something and this is partly the reason why I am holding on to this... I am afraid of being alone... I know there is millions of men out there but I somehow feel like I will end up alone even though there is nothing wrong with me... I'm pretty, smart, funny, good education, loving, caring, loyal, faithful but my self-esteem is so low I feel like nobody like me


You're alone now. The only difference will be there won't be another person living in the house who actively dislikes you.

Learn to like yourself and love yourself enough to give yourself a happier future. No one can do it for you.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Blondilocks said:


> You're alone now. The only difference will be there won't be another person living in the house who actively dislikes you.
> 
> Learn to like yourself and love yourself enough to give yourself a happier future. No one can do it for you.


THIS is the absolute truth! Being alone is for sure NOT the worst thing that can happen to you, and it beats the holy hell out of how you are living now, which is being in the presence of someone else who make you feel alone!


----------



## Wise Fairy

TL

" I'm pretty, smart, funny, good education, loving, caring, loyal, faithful but my self-esteem is so low I feel like nobody likes me"
SO WHY NOT LIKE YOU?

My self esteem, self worth has taken a bash, thank God mine has been 4 years worth but at least I am going to try to get out of this. I was doing so good the last 3 months then bam here he is again with his so called 360.

Once you realize that they don't and won't probably change can't see it happening with a N yes it's heartbreaking, but you have so much going for you, you just don't see it with the rose colored glasses on. 

Linda you are there on that vacation by yourself, doing things by yourself, like the others say what will the difference be other than your self esteem will come back. 

The only other option is Counseling do you think he would do that? Do you think it would help?

I don't know how old you are TL but I am 52 been around the block so to speak, well travelled, well tired but I still feel there is a bit of life left in me where I will find a nice decent mentally stable guy out there for me. But more important to find peace and tranquility in myself after this train wreck. 

Peace


----------



## Troubledlinda

Wise Fairy said:


> TL
> I don't know how old you are TL but I am 52 been around the block so to speak, well travelled, well tired but I still feel there is a bit of life left in me where I will find a nice decent mentally stable guy out there for me. But more important to find peace and tranquility in myself after this train wreck.
> 
> Peace


I'm 36


----------



## turnera

My brother didn't even marry the first (and only) time until he was 36. They are perfect for each other. As a 50-something, I'm here to tell you you have DECADES to find someone - and decades to ENJOY yourself and your son in the meantime.

My mom kicked my dad out when she was your age. He came begging back and she refused. Told him to take a hike. Said, why should I let you back in and have to change myself to please you any more?

She lived the next 40 years alone - HER choice, because she never wanted to be stuck with an abusive man in her life and because, frankly, she ENJOYED being alone and not having to share her time, or compromise.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> My brother didn't even marry the first (and only) time until he was 36. They are perfect for each other. As a 50-something, I'm here to tell you you have DECADES to find someone - and decades to ENJOY yourself and your son in the meantime.
> 
> My mom kicked my dad out when she was your age. He came begging back and she refused. Told him to take a hike. Said, why should I let you back in and have to change myself to please you any more?
> 
> She lived the next 40 years alone - HER choice, because she never wanted to be stuck with an abusive man in her life and because, frankly, she ENJOYED being alone and not having to share her time, or compromise.


Did you get to spend some time with your dad while growing up? How did you feel about your parents being divorced?


----------



## turnera

What do I say about my dad? He left when I was 12, picked me up once a week for my visit, took me to the mall where he would buy me a coke and we'd sit a few hours and watch people walk by; that lasted about a year. But he wanted a boy, and I tried to be a boy for him; otherwise he had no time for me. If I wanted to go fishing, I could spend time with him. If I wanted to help him build his lake house, I could go with him and work. Otherwise, I never saw him except at Christmas. He remarried when I was 16 and told me if I wanted to see him, I could now drive to his house, as he would no longer be coming to see me. meh, so what?

On the one hand, I'm grateful mom never remarried so I didn't have to deal with her picking another jerk like him; on the other hand, if I had had a GOOD male role model in my life - and no, my dad would never have made the list - I could have turned out so much better. Because the only man I knew treated women like garbage, I grew up believing being treated like garbage was all I deserved. So it's taken me 35 years to get to the point that I can stand up to my husband. 35 years and a lot of close misses with suicide.

One thing I DO know, if he had stayed married to my mom, I would have been a nutcase. Or dead. As it is, I still picked a man just like him, and that's only from living with him for 12 years.

I also know that I would have held it against my mom if she had left him move back in. Just like my DD23 has told me she often wished I would just divorce her dad so she didn't have to live with him 24/7.


----------



## SaltInWound

Linda, have you tried looking up online articles about children of narcissists, and how it carries into adulthood? It may give you a better picture of the psychological damage, and help you with your decision.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Linda, have you tried looking up online articles about children of narcissists, and how it carries into adulthood? It may give you a better picture of the psychological damage, and help you with your decision.


I will look it up. 
The thing is even if we do split, his dad will always be his dad and they will have a relationship... I suppose son will be spending some time with his dad during which I wont be there to see how they interact and what they do together... Right now for instance. He picked him up from my parents, last night, for the weekend.... (son was in heaven) and I have no contral of what they're doing....


----------



## AVR1962

Advocado said:


> Regarding him phoning to speak to your son when son is with grandparents but not when son is home with you - how galling that his only interest is to be seen to be all good in other peoples eyes - keeping up appearances but no regard for your feelings!
> 
> So can I take it that your parents know he never contacts you/his son when he is away from home. If yes, does he know they know?


TroubledLinda, Avocado has a very good point here. My husband is the same as I have mentioned. Appearances are everything for my husband, he wants no one to realize who he really is and what he has done. 

I think the bottom line here is finding your own happiness and creating a life you want for yourself. I have not ever been a real assertive person, I try to make people happy but in the process we are the ones who become unhappy because we are not getting what we want from our own lives.

I can't recall if you are in counseling but if not, I would suggest finding someone who can help you get on the road to your own life. I have been seeing someone who has helped a great deal and when a crisis comes up he can point out to me how I could have handled the situation.

We have to take charge of our own lives, our own destiny and our own future. We do have to change our old ways of trying to be the passive pleaser who wants everyone to get along. We have to realize that the issues we see in others are not ours and we do not own their pain/temper/poor behavior, they are merely a reflection of themselves and not us.

Find the connection from your past....who is the person in your life as a child that reminds you of your husband?? Resolve the issues, see how you can relate now as an adult and you have to make your own behavior/reactions stop. We recreate our childhood and then we react in the same way we would to a parent not even knowing but take a serious look at this and then analyze it as an adult and change the way you are choosing to deal with your situation. They always say "communication" is the key but it takes two!


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I will look it up.
> The thing is even if we do split, his dad will always be his dad and they will have a relationship... I suppose son will be spending some time with his dad during which I wont be there to see how they interact and what they do together... Right now for instance. He picked him up from my parents, last night, for the weekend.... (son was in heaven) and I have no contral of what they're doing....


Do you always leave your son with your parents when you are not available?

I don't remember if you have said in a previous post. Does he have other children?


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> The thing is even if we do split, his dad will always be his dad and they will have a relationship... I suppose son will be spending some time with his dad during which I wont be there to see how they interact and what they do together... I have no contral of what they're doing....


No, the REAL thing is, if he stays ONLY in a house full of abuse, one of two things will happen: your son will grow up to be just as abusive as his dad (most likely) because sons turn into their dads, or else he will become so traumatized that he will be in therapy for the rest of his life (if he doesn't get so desperate that he considers suicide like my brother did) and he will spend the rest of his life unable to be happy.

On the other hand, if you move out with your son and he spends at least half his time with you, in a HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT, he will LEARN what healthy looks like. He will then be able to make his own decision on which way he wants to turn out. But if he never SEES healthy, he will be incapable of choosing it.

Will his dad treat him poorly when he stays with his dad? Maybe. But afterwards, he will come home to you and a loving welcoming home, and it'll wash off of him.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Do you always leave your son with your parents when you are not available?
> 
> I don't remember if you have said in a previous post. Does he have other children?


Yes a lot of times at my folks or his but mostly mine (they are closer) 

He does have a son from a previous relationship but never really had any contact with him... says it was an "accident"... the child and his mom live overseas... I have never seen him.


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## Troubledlinda

turnera;
Will his dad treat him poorly when he stays with his dad? Maybe. But afterwards said:


> I doubt that he will treat him poorly, mostly when they spend time together... They play games and do fun things... I guess he doesnt have to do any chores when I'm around but maybe it will be a different story when they're really alone and he has to "take care" of him...
> 
> Now son knows that daddy plays games and mommy does all the other things: food, bath, play, read, disciplne, punish....


----------



## Troubledlinda

He did contact me today! He sent a text saying: 

"Hi, can you come back with a puppy?"

I just shook my head....


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Yes a lot of times at my folks or his but mostly mine (they are closer)
> 
> He does have a son from a previous relationship but never really had any contact with him... says it was an "accident"... the child and his mom live overseas... I have never seen him.


A dad should be a dad whether the mom is home or not. Absence of the mother should not automatically mean absence of the children. He doesn't even view himself as a babysitter. Sad.

As far as his other kid, let this be an example of your son's future. He easily walks away from responsibility. Nice way to refer to your child.....an accident. Wow, just wow.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> He did contact me today! He sent a text saying:
> 
> "Hi, can you come back with a puppy?"
> 
> I just shook my head....


Has the topic of a puppy ever been discussed previously?


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I doubt that he will treat him poorly, mostly when they spend time together... They play games and do fun things... I guess he doesnt have to do any chores when I'm around but *maybe it will be a different story when they're really alone and he has to "take care" of him*....


If his parents are close by, he can use them for that and disguise it as special time with the grandparents.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Has the topic of a puppy ever been discussed previously?


Nothing serious, but we had said previously that it would be nice for son to have a little puppy (at some point) but it was nothind definite or urgent... 

The thing is you don't make any contact with me for 4 days and out of the blue you send me a texte, no "how are you? how is your trip? or anything else that would sound "normal"...


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> If _*his parents*_ are close by, he can use them for that and disguise it as special time with the grandparents.


I meant MY parents are close by... 3 minute walk from us


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I meant MY parents are close by... 3 minute walk from us


My point about HIS parents was that during his visitations, he could easily dump his son off on them (if they live close by) and unload the responsibility. Unless your son told you where he was, you would not know about it.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> My point about HIS parents was that during his visitations, he could easily dump his son off on them (if they live close by) and unload the responsibility. Unless your son told you where he was, you would not know about it.


Ah ok, I see what you mean. 
BTW i read some stuff on children of narcissists... SCARY! and sad for all involved! I actually feel sorry for him, he must be so miserable inside....


----------



## Ellie5

If you're starting to pity him that could be a good thing for you Linda, just try not to allow that to be an excuse for his behaviour - there is no excuse!


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Nothing serious, but we had said previously that it would be nice for son to have a little puppy (at some point) but it was nothind definite or urgent...
> 
> The thing is you don't make any contact with me for 4 days and out of the blue you send me a texte, no "how are you? how is your trip? or anything else that would sound "normal"...


He isn't normal.

The puppy comment was his passive aggressive way of telling you he isn't going to change and he doesn't care. He has ignored the elephant in the room, knowing he told you to think about it while you were gone.

Beware the puppy comment turns into something more....perhaps a punishment for leaving on the trip.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> If you're starting to pity him that could be a good thing for you Linda, just try not to allow that to be an excuse for his behaviour - there is no excuse!


Yeah, no excuse for his poor behavior... he has a choice... after our talk the day I left, he could have decided to be nicer... he could have responded to my text, he could have called, he could have informed me that he was picking our son up from my parents for the weekend, he could have sent me a nicer message to ask for the puppy... he could, he could and could but he chose to remain as mean as possible for whatever reason he knows... 

Even if we said we would be using this time to think of our marriage, it doesn't mean we have to be nasty to each other... Even if we do part, I don't want to be your ennemy... I want good for you, I want you to be happy... things just didn't work for us but it doesn't mean we have to hate each other and make each other miserable.... Just venting!


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> He isn't normal.
> 
> The puppy comment was his passive aggressive way of telling you he isn't going to change and he doesn't care. He has ignored the elephant in the room, knowing he told you to think about it while you were gone.
> 
> Beware the puppy comment turns into something more....perhaps a punishment for leaving on the trip.


He hasn't said anything about my trip (which would be hard to do while giving someone the ST) so don't know how he feels about it but I'm pretty sure he dislikes the fact that I decided to go and did it... He's probably planning a punishment for when for when I get back... who knows


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> BTW i read some stuff on children of narcissists... SCARY! and sad for all involved! I actually feel sorry for him, he must be so miserable inside....


Actually, I wasn't referring to your husband as being the child of a narcissist. I am trying to help you see what will happen to *your son* if he stays in this negative environment your N husband creates.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Actually, I wasn't referring to your husband as being the child of a narcissist. I am trying to help you see what will happen to *your son* if he stays in this negative environment your N husband creates.


Oh yes, I got that... 
I just added in there that I felt sorry for H for whatever caused him to become tihs way.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Even if we said we would be using this time to think of our marriage, it doesn't mean we have to be nasty to each other... Even if we do part, I don't want to be your ennemy... I want good for you, I want you to be happy... things just didn't work for us but it doesn't mean we have to hate each other and make each other miserable.... Just venting!


And that is the nice person in you. He knows this is what you are thinking. You have been asking for it for years. He knows you are miserable. He wants you that way so you stay. And yes, he wants to be happy and what is good for him. And he is constantly getting it. Why should he cooperate with you? The only thing left is hostility. That will come with time.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Oh yes, I got that...
> I just added in there that I felt sorry for H for whatever caused him to become tihs way.


That will pass. It did in my case after I stopped hoping that he would change.


----------



## Wise Fairy

Hi TL, 

I hope that you are at least being able to relax a little on your trip?

Glad that you are reading the info about N. the ST you are experiencing definitely applies to this personality. 

Regarding your post 
"He's probably planning a punishment for when for when I get back... who knows" 
TL if you have learnt anything you know he is lol! so be prepared

Anyway I just wanted to say I wish I was your age and how I would change things so much if I had help from people with these type of life experiences, I was quite naïve still at your age and got taken forgranted and treated poorly most of the time.

I had to look back on my childhood and found there were quite a few characters that were some of the reasons that I took on their traits and why I accepted such crappy behavior. 

I do love the way that they make themselves look good to everyone that one does make me laugh  
it reminds me of the things my ex whispered in my ear when my friends were around, like do they know this or that about me. 

What you are going through is no laughing matter, you have some serious decisions to make, you didn't say anything about whether counseling would be an option, would you be afraid to ask him to do that?

With regards to your son, where do I start on my experience with that one mmm.. well my ex is still under the thumb of his mother the narcissist as we speak he mirrors her as she wants him to do, he is not free, and independent and cannot have a relationship a true relationship with feelings, emotion, love with anyone.

So think about if that's how you want your son to be? 
Just a thought TL 

That is so awful as well that he thinks of his other son as an accident, very sad. 

Lots of decisions TL please prepare yourself, the one good thing that I see right now is that you have your parents around that is a huge plus, not only for support, but for your child. 

Peace


----------



## Ellie5

Linda it's good to get it all out - vent away!

My guess is that you've spent the majority of your trip ruminating over him more than you've spent time enjoying yourself.

You will tire yourself out guessing, wondering, thinking, questioning - who cares what he thinks, feels, wants, or does. When he throws you a curve ball, aka "can you get a puppy" - IGNORE it.

Build yourself an imaginary wall that you lovingly surround yourself with, and tell yourself that nothing this man can say or do will affect the way you feel about yourself. Only you can allow this man into your head or not and you must take charge of your own happiness. 

Who cares how he behaves when you get back - just get on with the usual business of the day.

If I were you, I'd come home, breezy, non-chalant (even if you're dying inside). If he gives you ST or doesn't even register your presence, ignore it - get busy, do something else.

Better yet - arrange to do something the moment you get back - of course if you're tired or sleepy that's fine, but whatever he does or does not do has NO IMPACT on your state of being. Float around the house without initiating conversation - don't be eager for him to inquire because chances are he won't. 

Be INDIFFERENT to him.


----------



## Ellie5

Some practical advice on detaching:

Detachment: Breaking the Chains of Co-Dependency and Enabling


----------



## Advocado

Ellie5 said:


> Linda it's good to get it all out - vent away!
> 
> My guess is that you've spent the majority of your trip ruminating over him more than you've spent time enjoying yourself.
> 
> You will tire yourself out guessing, wondering, thinking, questioning - who cares what he thinks, feels, wants, or does. When he throws you a curve ball, aka "can you get a puppy" - IGNORE it.
> 
> Build yourself an imaginary wall that you lovingly surround yourself with, and tell yourself that nothing this man can say or do will affect the way you feel about yourself. Only you can allow this man into your head or not and you must take charge of your own happiness.
> 
> Who cares how he behaves when you get back - just get on with the usual business of the day.
> 
> If I were you, I'd come home, breezy, non-chalant (even if you're dying inside). If he gives you ST or doesn't even register your presence, ignore it - get busy, do something else.
> 
> Better yet - arrange to do something the moment you get back - of course if you're tired or sleepy that's fine, but whatever he does or does not do has NO IMPACT on your state of being. Float around the house without initiating conversation - don't be eager for him to inquire because chances are he won't.
> 
> Be INDIFFERENT to him.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

By taking a break away from home you are on the right road. I believe that doing what Ellie5 suggests above will keep you on the right path.


----------



## SaltInWound

Have you taken any pictures since arriving? See anything unusual that has made you laugh?


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Ah ok, I see what you mean.
> BTW i read some stuff on children of narcissists... SCARY! and sad for all involved! I actually feel sorry for him, he must be so miserable inside....


 You feel sorry for...your husband?

Yet you can't feel sorry for you? Your SON?

What is wrong with that picture?


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> He does have a son from a previous relationship but never really had any contact with him... says it was an "accident"... the child and his mom live overseas... I have never seen him.



Err... that's not really a good sign. I fear that years from now he'll be married to someone else, he won't have much contact with you either, and your son will be another "accident" to him.


----------



## turnera

SaltInWound said:


> He isn't normal.
> 
> The puppy comment was his passive aggressive way of telling you he isn't going to change and he doesn't care. He has ignored the elephant in the room, knowing he told you to think about it while you were gone.
> 
> Beware the puppy comment turns into something more....perhaps a punishment for leaving on the trip.


And don't forget that puppy situations can become dangerous.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> He hasn't said anything about my trip (which would be hard to do while giving someone the ST) so don't know how he feels about it but I'm pretty sure he dislikes the fact that I decided to go and did it... He's probably planning a punishment for when for when I get back... who knows


Ah yes...I remember the punishments...for daring to be a human and have a life and friends and family. I mean, what was I thinking? Mine even orchestrated having a beam fall on him while I dared to go help my dad with his beach house. So for the next ten years, I had to hear about how I was so selfish and always wanted to go 'gallivanting around' while poor little hubby was stuck at home doing all the work and having heavy beams fall on him because selfish little me was out having fun, not caring about him.


----------



## turnera

Ellie5 said:


> Who cares how he behaves when you get back - just get on with the usual business of the day. If I were you, I'd come home, breezy, non-chalant (even if you're dying inside). If he gives you ST or doesn't even register your presence, ignore it - get busy, do something else. Better yet - arrange to do something the moment you get back - of course if you're tired or sleepy that's fine, but whatever he does or does not do has NO IMPACT on your state of being. Float around the house without initiating conversation - don't be eager for him to inquire because chances are he won't. Be INDIFFERENT to him.


 This is EXCELLENT ADVICE. I REALLY hope you take it. It is the strongest way to elicit a change in your husband.


----------



## Wise Fairy

TL 

Hi there, 

Someone said this to me today I thought it might be fitting. 

Actually whatever you have been doing how's that been working for you? I said well it hasn't so maybe it's time 
to change it up. 

I think Dr. Phil said this on one of his shows lol! 

Peace


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Some practical advice on detaching:
> 
> Detachment: Breaking the Chains of Co-Dependency and Enabling


Thanks, will check it out.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Have you taken any pictures since arriving? See anything unusual that has made you laugh?


I'm enjoying my time... Not doing anything crazy but doing what I enjoy: walking around, sight seeing, shopping, eating at nice littles bistro... I am overly happy but I am not miserable either... once in a while I feel low but haven't cried about it... I'm ok... 

Feeling a bit anxious about going home but I will have to deal with that when the time comes... 

Missing my son


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Err... that's not really a good sign. I fear that years from now he'll be married to someone else, he won't have much contact with you either, and your son will be another "accident" to him.


From what he has told me, it wasn't really a "relationship" but rather a casual "let's do it once in a while" situation (not that it excuses anything but just to clarify)


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> You feel sorry for...your husband?
> 
> Yet you can't feel sorry for you? Your SON?
> 
> What is wrong with that picture?


Yeah, I know! It sounds crazy, doesn't it? 
I think that he must be so miserable inside of him... 
For me, I feel a bit more empowered for "starting" to see him for who he is... not that I have found the solutions, obviously, but I am not in total denial anymore....
For my son, either way, I feel sorry for him as no child should have to be in such crisis... leaving or staying deprives him of something... it is now a choice of the least damaging for him...


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> And don't forget that puppy situations can become dangerous.


What do you mean?


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Yeah, I know! It sounds crazy, doesn't it?


Not really. You're an abuse victim. 

Abuse victims seek OUT men or women who will abuse them. 

And then when they are abused, instead of protecting themselves, they say oh I must have deserved it, he's not that bad, he must have had a reason, that's just the way he is...nothing about how HE shouldn't have done what he did to you.

Do you see how sick this is? How much therapy you need?


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> What do you mean?


Oh, where do I start?

First, a pet puts you in a situation where you can't just pick up and leave.

Second, when you become emotionally attached to a pet, it gives an abuser ONE MORE SITUATION in which he can hurt you. 

Third, abusers are quite capable of hurting people; hurting animals - tools for them - is even easier. If you bring a pet into that house, you're putting it in danger.

Fourth, the dynamics between your son and a pet can be skewed in so many ways, depending on the whims of your abusive husband, and it can result in messing with your son's head.


----------



## SaltInWound

turnera said:


> Oh, where do I start?
> 
> First, a pet puts you in a situation where you can't just pick up and leave.
> 
> Second, when you become emotionally attached to a pet, it gives an abuser ONE MORE SITUATION in which he can hurt you.
> 
> Third, abusers are quite capable of hurting people; hurting animals - tools for them - is even easier. If you bring a pet into that house, you're putting it in danger.
> 
> Fourth, the dynamics between your son and a pet can be skewed in so many ways, depending on the whims of your abusive husband, and it can result in messing with your son's head.


Yes, Yes, and Yes. Linda, this is exactly why I warned you about the puppy comment.

And I will add one more. Remember how I keep referring to your son as a chess piece and how he is used to punish you? Your husband may have been whispering "puppy" in your son's ear while you were gone. And he may have made comments like "We have to ask mommy" or "mommy said we could get a puppy". Depending on how vile your husband is and how much he intends to punish you for going on your trip, he may have even told your son that mommy is bringing a puppy home with her. When you get home, it is possible your son gets excited asking for one. And you, being bombarded out of nowhere like this......will look like the bad guy for not agreeing to a puppy. And this is where your husband looks at your son and says "Mommy doesn't want us to have a puppy." I'm not saying this is going to happen, or that you should stress over it. I just want you to be prepared that it is a possibility. That puppy text from your husband wasn't for nothing.

I have never had a situation involving a puppy, but I certainly had many situations where stuff was put in my lap where I was the one blamed for denying our son, and heard "Mommy doesn't......." Chess piece.


----------



## Coldharvest

The "silent treatment" is the only way for a man to deal with the illogical behavior that women so often present us with.

Now, it shouldn't be used for silly things like not sweeping a porch or whatever, but it is effective in combatting drama.

Going silent gives a man time to think and process. We aren't emotional creatures, and it is best to not talk, and work through the anger/emotion of the situation, until we reach a level of "peace" where we can talk it out.


----------



## turnera

Really, ColdHarvest? So you typically go SIX WEEKS without speaking a word to your wife? Out of 'protection?'


----------



## turnera

And please, do tell me what 'illogical behavior or drama linda has exhibited?


----------



## SaltInWound

Coldharvest said:


> The "silent treatment" is the only way for a man to deal with the illogical behavior that women so often present us with.
> 
> Now, it shouldn't be used for silly things like not sweeping a porch or whatever, but it is effective in combatting drama.
> 
> Going silent gives a man time to think and process. We aren't emotional creatures, and it is best to not talk, and work through the anger/emotion of the situation, until we reach a level of "peace" where we can talk it out.


It is illogical to go silent on a person for days or weeks rather than saying "Please allow me [x minutes or an hour] to absorb what has just happened. I will be glad to talk to you then."

Problem with passive aggressive people is that they NEVER discuss what has happened. They hit and run and then later pretend it never happened.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Coldharvest said:


> The "silent treatment" is the only way for a man to deal with the illogical behavior that women so often present us with.
> 
> Now, it shouldn't be used for silly things like not sweeping a porch or whatever, but it is effective in combatting drama.
> 
> Going silent gives a man time to think and process. We aren't emotional creatures, and it is best to not talk, and work through the anger/emotion of the situation, until we reach a level of "peace" where we can talk it out.


Hold on, I have to sit back and take a deep breath!!! I don't know if you have read my posts but this is my SEVENTH WEEK of ST from my husband! SEVEN WEEEEEKS for crying out loud! Illogical behavior??? Contradicting my H on a shoe size to buy for our son while on vacation is illogical??? Oh I am so angry right now.... I can't believe what I just read! 

He didn't find me cheating on him or stealing his money or disrespecting his family or going out drinking and partying... I just had a different opinion than his on a f°°°°g shoe size!!!! That was my crime and my sentence is illimited silence!!!!!


----------



## turnera

linda, just ignore him. He's talking about his own issues/story.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Hold on, I have to sit back and take a deep breath!!! I don't know if you have read my posts but this is my SEVENTH WEEK of ST from my husband! SEVEN WEEEEEKS for crying out loud!* Illogical behavior??? Contradicting my H on a shoe size to buy for our son while on vacation is illogical??? Oh I am so angry right now.... I can't believe what I just read! *
> 
> He didn't find me cheating on him or stealing his money or disrespecting his family or going out drinking and partying... I just had a different opinion than his on a f°°°°g shoe size!!!! That was my crime and my sentence is illimited silence!!!!!


 See how easy it is to get sucked in?


----------



## SaltInWound

Linda, what did you treat yourself to today? 

Before you leave, buy yourself something nice.....something symbolic. Something that after you get home, you can focus on when you find yourself wavering. Something that will give you inner strength.


----------



## Wise Fairy

TL

Hi there how are you doing?

With the puppy remember it won't be as easy for you to leave and go on a vacation, so keeps you right where you need to be.
Why couldn't he talk to you face to face about this either?
A puppy needs attention, could take your focus of off him which will make easier for him not to have more conversation. 

Isn't one sick puppy enough anyway?

You will be coming up to the 2 month mark pretty soon on the ST before you know it another month. I would suggest TL that you get into some kind of IC for yourself at this point, before more damage is done. 

So much manipulation from your H I hope this time away opens your eyes. 

I do understand that some men need time to process feelings and emotions I get that we all do sometimes, but weeks is emotional abuse. Saying I need to think about what was said but then coming bk to communicate is much more healthy rather than leaving something undone diabolical behavior. 

Ok TL take care enjoy your time. 

Peace


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Linda, what did you treat yourself to today?
> 
> Before you leave, buy yourself something nice.....something symbolic. Something that after you get home, you can focus on when you find yourself wavering. Something that will give you inner strength.


Hi, I had a nice day today... walked around and enjoyed the nice weather... had lunch with an old friend and laughed a lot... 
Did some shopping.... about to have dinner and call it a night... Flying home tomorrow morning.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Wise Fairy said:


> TL
> 
> Hi there how are you doing?
> 
> With the puppy remember it won't be as easy for you to leave and go on a vacation, so keeps you right where you need to be.
> Why couldn't he talk to you face to face about this either?
> A puppy needs attention, could take your focus of off him which will make easier for him not to have more conversation.
> 
> Isn't one sick puppy enough anyway?
> 
> You will be coming up to the 2 month mark pretty soon on the ST before you know it another month. I would suggest TL that you get into some kind of IC for yourself at this point, before more damage is done.
> 
> So much manipulation from your H I hope this time away opens your eyes.
> 
> I do understand that some men need time to process feelings and emotions I get that we all do sometimes, but weeks is emotional abuse. Saying I need to think about what was said but then coming bk to communicate is much more healthy rather than leaving something undone diabolical behavior.
> 
> Ok TL take care enjoy your time.
> 
> Peace


Oh... I just responded to your post and lost the connection and the post... 

I am on week 9 of ST... Made a mistake by saying 7 weeks. 
He has not contacted me and I feel like he's trying to tell me that he doesn't want anything to do with me anymore... that's what I get from his silence... It has never been this long and this mean. 

As for puppy... I did not bother looking... Had other things to do for myself and I don't see myself carrying a puppy around on an overseas trip... what a hassle! 

Going home tomorrow


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Good! No puppy! Sheesh, thats the LAST thing you need! 

Linda, go home and tell him you came to a decision, that you are done with the marriage. That will knock him on his ass, and give you the upper hand for now. He isnt expecting that, he thinks that he is the one in control and is convinced that YOU are weak, that you would never stand up to him or leave him. 

I am glad you were able to get away for a while and enjoy yourself.


----------



## Troubledlinda

3Xnocharm said:


> Linda, go home and tell him you came to a decision, that you are done with the marriage. That will knock him on his ass, and give you the upper hand for now. He isnt expecting that, he thinks that he is the one in control and is convinced that YOU are weak, that you would never stand up to him or leave him.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Tell him that I'm leaving and actually do it? Can you tell someone you're leaving and hang around a few more weeks until I get ready? Isn't he gonna call me bluff if I say it and don't do right away?
> 
> Was thinking to hang around till after Christmas...
> 
> I don't think this man will change... As much as I wish and want him to and wake up to a happier, healthier marriage... I'm losing hope.


----------



## turnera

Of course you can. "Husband, you were right. We needed to think about whether we wanted this marriage. It did me a lot of good to think about that. Thank you. I now realize I DO NOT want this marriage. If you were to turn into a nice guy who didn't abuse me with the silent treatment and treat our son like he was invisible? I'd gladly stay. But since you don't seem to want to be that person, I've decided I need to move on. It may take me a while, I'll have to get lots of ducks in a row, but I wanted to let you know."


----------



## 3Xnocharm

turnera said:


> Of course you can. "Husband, you were right. We needed to think about whether we wanted this marriage. It did me a lot of good to think about that. Thank you. I now realize I DO NOT want this marriage. If you were to turn into a nice guy who didn't abuse me with the silent treatment and treat our son like he was invisible? I'd gladly stay. But since you don't seem to want to be that person, I've decided I need to move on. It may take me a while, I'll have to get lots of ducks in a row, but I wanted to let you know."


PERFECT!!! :smthumbup: This is what I was thinking Turnera! And Linda if you are lucky, he will CONTINUE the silent treatment so you can have some peace while you get your plan going!


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Of course you can. "Husband, you were right. We needed to think about whether we wanted this marriage. It did me a lot of good to think about that. Thank you. I now realize I DO NOT want this marriage. If you were to turn into a nice guy who didn't abuse me with the silent treatment and treat our son like he was invisible? I'd gladly stay. But since you don't seem to want to be that person, I've decided I need to move on. It may take me a while, I'll have to get lots of ducks in a row, but I wanted to let you know."


Sounds reasonable.


----------



## Theseus

3Xnocharm said:


> Linda, go home and tell him you came to a decision, that you are done with the marriage. That will knock him on his ass, and give you the upper hand for now.


I disagree, because I suspect that's what he's been hoping for all along. My guess is that he's been doing this long silent treatment to deliberately drive Linda nuts until she initiates a divorce. That way, his friends/family will see him as a good guy who's wife left him, rather than the other way around. 

But regardless, Linda, I still wouldn't advise telling him you want a divorce unless you are sure you really want a divorce. If you are not sure, but are seriously considering divorce, then just tell him that. I am uncomfortable with all the "game playing" advice in this thread. You can't "win" at this game, so you should focus on simply not playing it, rather than trying to get the upper hand.


----------



## Wise Fairy

TL 

Have a save flight home. 

You have some decisions to make not easy ones, you are still young remember that but his ST is going to drain you emotionally to where you will feel older than your years. 

Do what is right for you, stand up for yourself and your son.

Remember you have your family they will help and support you, many of us don't have that support so that's great. 

Take care


----------



## turnera

Theseus said:


> I I suspect that's what he's been hoping for all along. My guess is that he's been doing this long silent treatment to deliberately drive Linda nuts until she initiates a divorce. That way, his friends/family will see him as a good guy who's wife left him, rather than the other way around.


Who cares? Once she leaves him, he will be part of her HISTORY, she'll be off meeting great guys who will treat her like a queen, and what his family/friends think won't even be a twinkle in her eye. She'll be too busy enjoying her life. The only regret she'll have is that she waited so long.


----------



## Advocado

I think for some people who are leaving a relationship, they have to just do it pretty much straight away. Only you know yourself Linda - If you suspect that giving H 3 months notice of your departure might result in him being nice to you purely in order to get you to stay and that you could be vulnerable to this niceness and end up delaying your departure or changing your mind about leaving, then that is a reason for you to consider delaying telling him of your decision to leave, if indeed that is your decision. Don't get me wrong - I am not saying you should not leave but be absolutely sure as a threat to leave which is not followed through will lead to more strife later on. 

Again, my worry is three months is a long time for him to work on you. Think about what, if anything, he might try to do to make you stay. With his repetitive long silent treatments he certainly is acting in such a way as to make you want to initiate divorce but I have a feeling that he may not ultimately want to divorce. To me he is happy with the status quo as he is/was in control. Although he is driving you away he may not ultimately want you to go because then he has no one to control. So he might work hard to convince you that he can change his ways to have you stay. The question is will he maintain any changes for the long term. I have my doubts - based on all you have said I doubt he could change even if he wanted to! 

I probably have not explained this very well but I hope you get my drift. 

Whatever the interval between you telling him you are leaving and actually leaving, it would be wise to NOW get legal advice so that you know exactly where you stand as to the house, custody/visitation etc. Indeed, he may already have taken legal advice himself given that he told you to make your decision by the time you return!

Don't be pressurised by him to give him a decision right away. Take the time you need to work out the best time frame bearing in mind all the practicalities and do what's right for you and your son, when it's right for you and your son.

Meanwhile, be good to yourself - do stuff to keep yourself genuinely upbeat thorougout. See friends and keep busy with things that uplift you and don't let H drag you down. I agree with the person that you are fortunate to have supportive parents on hand, so don't be afraid to confide in them and allow them to help you through this difficult life changing time.

Sorry to ramble, but Linda how do you think he will react if you were to tell him you are leaving after Christmas and how would you then be inclined to respond. Think through all the possibilities you can come up with as it can help you to stay on track with whatever your long term plans are.


----------



## turnera

And don't forget that 'working on you' is an abuser's NUMBER ONE SKILL.


----------



## Ellie5

Hey Linda, I hope you have a safe trip back if you're not back already.

Some may disagree with this and it's only *one* suggestion that I'm not saying is the only thing to do - but you do have the option of just packing a bag when you're home and going to stay with your family with your son without saying a word to him (you're choosing how long and if and when you may choose to divorce him - he doesn't need progress reports). 

Let him prize it out of you. Let him wonder what you're thinking. Let him wonder what on earth is going on in your mind. Let him feel confused. Let him live with uncertainty. I don't believe this is playing a game. This is wiping away someone who doesn't even acknowledge your existence. Why pay him the courtesy of telling him what you're planning. Because you may not be sure yourself.

Right now you're hurting, and yes, need to get those ducks in a row and decide on your future. Why involve him or share your thoughts?

He goes away on a business trip and doesn't even use your name when he sends a 4 word email. You don't treat a dog like this, let alone your wife.

Keeping quiet and just getting some space and distance from him when you're home will mean you're not giving away anything. You could tell him you're staying with your family and then leave it at that - he'll know where his son his if he wants to see him.

A little mystery from you will cause no harm. Get your dignity back. 

He's obsolete.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> I disagree, because I suspect that's what he's been hoping for all along. My guess is that he's been doing this long silent treatment to deliberately drive Linda nuts until she initiates a divorce. That way, his friends/family will see him as a good guy who's wife left him, rather than the other way around.


As much as I want to disagree with you on this, I feel the same way you do. I have felt this way early on into our marriage... I always wandered if he married me for love or other reasons and often felt like he was trying to push me away... so that he is seen as the victim and me the bad person for leaving/breaking the family etc. 

Maybe this sounds crazy but if this is what he wants, I want him to say it.... I want him to say he wants out or he doesn't see a future for us or whatever...


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Hey Linda, I hope you have a safe trip back if you're not back already.
> 
> Some may disagree with this and it's only *one* suggestion that I'm not saying is the only thing to do - but you do have the option of just packing a bag when you're home and going to stay with your family with your son without saying a word to him (you're choosing how long and if and when you may choose to divorce him - he doesn't need progress reports).
> 
> Let him prize it out of you. Let him wonder what you're thinking. Let him wonder what on earth is going on in your mind. Let him feel confused. Let him live with uncertainty. I don't believe this is playing a game. This is wiping away someone who doesn't even acknowledge your existence. Why pay him the courtesy of telling him what you're planning. Because you may not be sure yourself.
> 
> Right now you're hurting, and yes, need to get those ducks in a row and decide on your future. Why involve him or share your thoughts?
> 
> He goes away on a business trip and doesn't even use your name when he sends a 4 word email. You don't treat a dog like this, let alone your wife.
> 
> Keeping quiet and just getting some space and distance from him when you're home will mean you're not giving away anything. You could tell him you're staying with your family and then leave it at that - he'll know where his son his if he wants to see him.
> 
> A little mystery from you will cause no harm. Get your dignity back.
> 
> He's obsolete.


I am back home now. 
The night before my trip, I couldn't sleep and my stomach was in a knot... I hate that feeling. 

On the plane, tears kept rolling down my cheeks... I couldn't stop them and didn't care that the person next to kept looking at me... I just felt so empty inside and so sad. Right now, I don't know if the sadness comes from his poor treatment or from the realization that my marriage might be over. I have a feeling it's the latter. 

So I arrived and went straight to my parents (needed to see my son) on the way there I got a text asking me if I was coming home or going to my folks first... I replied folks... As I got there, he was pulling in right behind me. 

So he greeted me in a "normal" way (my mom was watching) and then we had dinner and left with our son. At the table he was trying to make conversation with me without really making eye contact (I could tell he was just "pretending" like he normally does when there's people around) - When we got home, I got busy putting son to bed and getting ready for bed myself so didn't really talk to each other and this morning he left for work... Don't know when we'll have "the" talk about our time apart and the thinking we were supposed to do... 

Oh... I forgot, while at my parents, we were talking about banks, credit cards etc so he pulls a debit card (from his account) out of his wallet and gives it to me saying that he had his old card renewed so he ordered an extra one for me too????!!! what is that all about?


----------



## turnera

Notice how he waited until you were in front of YOUR PARENTS to give it to you? meh


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Notice how he waited until you were in front of YOUR PARENTS to give it to you? meh


Exactly! This is so sick!!!


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Oh... I forgot, while at my parents, we were talking about banks, credit cards etc so he pulls a debit card (from his account) out of his wallet and gives it to me saying that he had his old card renewed so he ordered an extra one for me too????!!! what is that all about?


"Hey Linda's mom and dad, look what a great guy I am......so considerate of my wife's needs." BTW, Linda........."You just stay mindful that this is MY account and I am doing YOU a favor. That's right. You remember that I don't HAVE to do this......give you access to MY money. I will be using this to keep you in your place later on."

He is disgusting. 

Can you do a credit report? What I found in my stbxh's made my heart drop. It showed me how truly deceptive he was.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> Maybe this sounds crazy but if this is what he wants, I want him to say it.... I want him to say he wants out or he doesn't see a future for us or whatever...


Not crazy at all. But I suspect he doesn't have the courage to tell you that.


----------



## SaltInWound

Theseus said:


> Not crazy at all. But I suspect he doesn't have the courage to tell you that.


My stbxh told me in bed, in the dark, with his back to me, then got out of bed and ran away like the coward he is. Now, he hides in a foreign country where the law is on his side and he can have total control......doesn't have to face me, speak to me, or answer any e-mails. He told our son he tried to leave me several times. Umm.......son and I both said he may have tried, but it never went into words and he never physically left. No, he waited until I had to be gone for medical stuff and pounce on someone who couldn't defend themselves. Coward. It is like a thief stealing from a hit and run victim.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Not crazy at all. But I suspect he doesn't have the courage to tell you that.


He's such a "MAN" when it comes to being mean and cruel but when it comes to saying he wants out, he doesn't have the courage?!


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> My stbxh told me in bed, in the dark, with his back to me, then got out of bed and ran away like the coward he is. Now, he hides in a foreign country where the law is on his side and he can have total control......doesn't have to face me, speak to me, or answer any e-mails. He told our son he tried to leave me several times. Umm.......son and I both said he may have tried, but it never went into words and he never physically left. No, he waited until I had to be gone for medical stuff and pounce on someone who couldn't defend themselves. Coward. It is like a thief stealing from a hit and run victim.


So he actually left you after abusing you?! How old was your son then? 

I feel that mine is trying to push me out the door... I would not want to stay in our home anyways... I moved into his place when we got married, although it would be "better" for our son if we stayed here so that he doesn't loose all his bearings... then again kids adapt to all kinds of situations.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> He's such a "MAN" when it comes to being mean and cruel but when it comes to saying he wants out, he doesn't have the courage?!


Have you read "Living with the Passive Aggressive Man" or "Why Does He Do That?". It will explain all of this cruel, angry behavior and how it relates to a feeling of powerlessness/weakness.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Have you read "Living with the Passive Aggressive Man" or "Why Does He Do That?". It will explain all of this cruel, angry behavior and how it relates to a feeling of powerlessness/weakness.


Yes, I'm busy reading "Why does he do that" and "The emotionally abused woman" at the same time... Scary stuff. They don't talk much about the ST in particular but I find a lot of character traits... scary reading. 

BTW he never mentionned anything about the puppy... Guess if he was serious about it, he would have at least asked or said something, no?


----------



## turnera

Maybe he was in front of your parents when he sent that, and told them about it?


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Maybe he was in front of your parents when he sent that, and told them about it?


No, he wasn't at my folks when he sent it but the next day when he went to visit, he told my dad that I might be coming back with a pupy for son and my dad said: "how will that be possible on such short notice? you don't travel with an animal from one country to another just like that... it has to get shots and get all documents to be able to get on the plane" :lol:


----------



## Ellie5

Linda he is sly. His behaviour is nauseous.

I'm really glad for you that you have the support of your parents.

How are you feeling?


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda he is sly. His behaviour is nauseous.
> 
> I'm really glad for you that you have the support of your parents.
> 
> How are you feeling?



I'm feeling a bit depressed these days... just feeling down and lonely. Don't want to see friends, everything seems like such a chore... I know I have to break out of this. I've had a headache for 3 days. 

Before I left, we had agreed to think and discuss our situation upon my return... Well, I've been back 3 days and the subject hasn't been brought up yet. Who is supposed to bring it up? The ST is still on although it feels like he lowered the level a notch... He doesn't leave the room anymore and says hello and goodbye when he leaves for work.  pregress :rofl:

I have spoken to H's cousin (female) about our situation before I left on the trip and she spoke to his mother about it so they both tried to talk to him while I was gone, asking him if everything was ok and how come I had gone away for a week... He said that everything was fine and even got angry at his mom for talking to him about his wife and his marriage.... Apparently he's never said anything negative about me to his friends and family... he always praises me and defends me if someone tries to say something bad about me... She kept telling me that he loves me and he is so protective of me... I don't quite understand that.... I hope there is a chapter on this in "why does he do that" :smthumbup:

Yes, my parents have been very supportive.


----------



## turnera

Be careful that you're not getting into a depression.


----------



## Advocado

I'm so sorry you are hurting Linda. 

I think your leaving to go on a trip has given your H a little bit of a wake up call. Hence he is now saying hello,goodbye and being present. But is that enough for you? I think not.

As hard as it is, try not to focus on waiting for him to start a conversation about the future of the relationship. Focus on what you want and need for the future and make a plan to make it happen and then don't delay to start executing the plan. 

Think about how you want your life to be in x years time and the work backwards as to what you need to do between now and then to get to that place - set goals and a realistic time line.

For the short term plan how you will keep yourself busy, buoyant and positive and each night plan for what you will do the next day to focus your mind away from merely waiting for him to act so that you can react. 

In other words be proactive rather than reactive, doing what you need to do to secure a happy and fulfilling future long term. 

Being in limbo sucks. Don't go there/stay there.

Thinking of you and sending you positive vibes. (Big hug!!!)


----------



## zeezack

Troubledlinda said:


> Hello Zeezack,
> 
> Sorry to hear that your wife is giving you the ST. I know it sucks as I've been on it now for the 5th week (in a row) and it sure feels like crap. I'm sure you miss her like crazy and wish she would just come back and be happy ever after... The good thing with her being away is that it gives you some time for yourself. My case is different because I see him everyday and sleep next to him everynight but it feels like he's not even there because he totally ignores me... almost as if he doesn't see me, I don't exist...
> 
> I would say, stop trying to make contact with her and stop pleading. Let her do her thing and wait for her return... I feel that when you run after them, they get more power but when you start "neglecting" their behavior, they wander why you're acting different than what they normally see in your behavior and maybe that's when they reach out to you...
> 
> What happened before she left? did you have a fight? Did she say why she wanted a divorce?
> 
> Good luck


Back in June - she told my aunty that my mum didn't like her. I stupidly told my sister, who in turn wrote my wife an email. My sister was only backing up my mum, who is going through her own hard time. It basically said that my wife shouldn't act so cold and withdrawn towards my parents.

My wife reacted angry towards the letter, then went cold turkey on me throughout July. Then didn't want to celebrate our anniversary and said she wanted a divorce.

She has since opened up - I went over to the house last weekend, it was nice to be back in her company again, but she is still acting cold/withdrawn. For example she has requested I remain in 'my' flat this weekend.


----------



## Ellie5

Linda, just echoing Advocado's words really. It's perfectly natural you're feeling so low, and I hope you can make the disconnect emotionally from your H in order that your happiness isn't dependent on him going forward. Taking an active, proactive role in what does make you happy so you're not playing some bizarre and disturbing waiting game either.

You always have this thread to vent away to. And you'll make your decisions in your own time. Sending you lots of hugs and I hope you've got some plans that involve enjoying yourself this weekend


----------



## Advocado

Hi Linda

Again thinking of you and hoping you are having a more positive day.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> Hi Linda
> 
> Again thinking of you and hoping you are having a more positive day.


HI, thanks for thinking of me... I actually had a nice day today. 
Went to the gym for 2 hours then took my boy to the pool (it was like 40°c degrees out there today)... Came home, cooked dinner for whoever wants to eat... then took a long shower while playing my favorite songs and singing my heart out. (Son came knocking on the door to ask what I was doing and why I was singing :smthumbup: sweet boy) then went to his dad: "daddy, mommy said she's singing and taking a shower" :lol:

At breakfast this AM, I called H to come eat and he said he wasn't hungry and would eat later so son said: "Daddy, you have to sit down at your place and eat with us now because now is time to eat" so he sat down and ate :rofl: idiot! 

So far, so good.. I guess

Since we still have to have that talk about our future (as agreed before my departure) I suggested we go out to dinner tonight to which he responded: "I'm tired" (it's 9:00 AM dude, take a nap so you won't be tired for dinner) (I just wanted to test him I guess, I know he would found an excuse) 

I guess this marriage is really over... I mean even if we do start talking again, how in the world do you get over 3 months of ST without bitterness and resentment? I don't think I could, unless we do MC but I know that wont happen so to just pick up where we left off, until the next ST, seems almost impossible to me... what do you think?


----------



## SaltInWound

Linda, make sure you get out of the house at least once a day. Being idle gives you too much time to focus on an object and get lost in your thoughts. Get out and walk. I found my frustration made me feel jittery, like I was going to fly apart, so by doing a treadmill, that jittery feeling was drowned. I found the treadmill was my private time to cry. I also watch music videos while walking. I can choose the music, which can be alter my mood. Something empowering.

Katy Perry - Wide Awake - YouTube


----------



## Advocado

About that talk - have you worked out what you want to say/tell him, if anything?

Regardless, looks like he is content to let you wait and wonder what's on his mind. And he may well be secretly eager to know if you have any plans, but not wanting you to know that he is concerned!

And this leads me to say it's great to know you are taking some "me" time and *enjoying *it (and no doubt he will notice this too and know that you are capable of being happy despite his best efforts to unsettle you by making you wait to have the talk.) Music is great therapy I find.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> So far, so good.. I guess
> 
> This is EXACTLY what he is saying.
> 
> Since we still have to have that talk about our future (as agreed before my departure) I suggested we go out to dinner tonight to which he responded:* "I'm tired" *(it's 9:00 AM dude, take a nap so you won't be tired for dinner) (I just wanted to test him I guess, I know he would found an excuse)
> 
> This was the automated response I got for everything in the end. Too tired to talk about how his day went. Too tired to go anywhere. Went to bed very early because tired from work. He stopped being "tired" when our son and I were no longer living there. What he was tired of was the fact I stopped being compliant.


Stay strong.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> About that talk - have you worked out what you want to say/tell him, if anything?
> 
> Regardless, looks like he is content to let you wait and wonder what's on his mind. And he may well be secretly eager to know if you have any plans, but not wanting you to know that he is concerned!
> 
> And this leads me to say it's great to know you are taking some "me" time and *enjoying *it (and no doubt he will notice this too and know that you are capable of being happy despite his best efforts to unsettle you by making you wait to have the talk.) Music is great therapy I find.


To be honest, I really don't know what I would say... I am more curious to hear what he has to say even though I have a feeling that he didn't think much about it... 

I guess my plan for now is to do things that make me happy and help me rebuild my self-esteem: 
- I have to find a job or some source of income
- I have to reconnect with friends (I kind of neglected my friends... he never stopped me from seeing them, but I always felt like my pain could be seen on my face and felt embarassed to be around happily married friends)
- Have to invite friends over for game nights/dinners/hang outs and create a happy and vibrant home for me and son (even though H lives here too) 
- have to get into shape; I have about 10 kilos to loose and my weigtht has always been a battle for me (hubby told me long ago that he liked me better with the extra pounds, even though I was thin when we met :scratchhead I know wander if it wasn't a trick to make me start neglecting my figure and then feel down about the extra pounds hmmm. 
- have to heal my broken heart
- gather enough strength and courage to face life on my own and be the best mother i can be for son


In the meantime, if we end up having that talk, at least I'll be in a different place mentally (I hope)


----------



## Ellie5

Hey Linda, great that you're singing in the shower 

You can probably tell by the my profile pic....I'd definitely recommend some yoga - even a bit of power yoga or vinyasa if you're more up for a sweat.

As much as I see your reasoning for suggesting dinner - it should be HIM asking you, I wouldn't make anything easy for him, including your willingness to "chat" - doesn't he have to work a bit at this for you to even consider staying together? hate to say this but you're too easy on him. He'll never learn he can't treat you like this if you're always so ready to make amends. I'm not saying be nasty, just pull back a bit 

Hope you have a lovely Sunday.


----------



## Ellie5

Troubledlinda said:


> I guess my plan for now is to do things that make me happy and help me rebuild my self-esteem:
> - I have to find a job or some source of income
> - I have to reconnect with friends (I kind of neglected my friends... he never stopped me from seeing them, but I always felt like my pain could be seen on my face and felt embarassed to be around happily married friends)
> - Have to invite friends over for game nights/dinners/hang outs and create a happy and vibrant home for me and son (even though H lives here too)
> - have to get into shape; I have about 10 kilos to loose and my weigtht has always been a battle for me (hubby told me long ago that he liked me better with the extra pounds, even though I was thin when we met :scratchhead I know wander if it wasn't a trick to make me start neglecting my figure and then feel down about the extra pounds hmmm.
> - have to heal my broken heart
> - gather enough strength and courage to face life on my own and be the best mother i can be for son
> 
> 
> In the meantime, if we end up having that talk, at least I'll be in a different place mentally (I hope)


:smthumbup:  :smthumbup: :smthumbup:


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Hey Linda, great that you're singing in the shower
> 
> You can probably tell by the my profile pic....I'd definitely recommend some yoga - even a bit of power yoga or vinyasa if you're more up for a sweat.
> 
> As much as I see your reasoning for suggesting dinner - it should be HIM asking you, I wouldn't make anything easy for him, including your willingness to "chat" - doesn't he have to work a bit at this for you to even consider staying together? hate to say this but you're too easy on him. He'll never learn he can't treat you like this if you're always so ready to make amends. I'm not saying be nasty, just pull back a bit
> 
> Hope you have a lovely Sunday.


Hi Elli5 

Thanks for your post. Yeah I do feel like I am being too nice on him... I guess, I don't know how to be nasty, I should though. He should be the one bending backwards to get my attention! You're right!!! 

Not a big fan of Yoga but I do take body balance class twice a week :smthumbup:


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Linda, make sure you get out of the house at least once a day. Being idle gives you too much time to focus on an object and get lost in your thoughts. Get out and walk. I found my frustration made me feel jittery, like I was going to fly apart, so by doing a treadmill, that jittery feeling was drowned. I found the treadmill was my private time to cry. I also watch music videos while walking. I can choose the music, which can be alter my mood. Something empowering.
> 
> Katy Perry - Wide Awake - YouTube


Great song! thanks for sharing! 
Could you please remind me of your situation? Sorry to ask again, I am sure you've told me before. Just want to know how old is your son? how is he coping with you and H being separated? Does he see his dad? How long have you been separated? How do you feel?


----------



## Ellie5

Linda I totally hear you!

We're women. We like talking, sharing, empathizing, understanding. We want to resolve things and share our feelings.

His actions haven't shown him worthy of you being so available emotionally to him. Does that make sense?

I think with this new empowered you, and a little pulling back on the reigns, you will start to see yourself in a new light and might even find yourself stopping yourself opening up to him because you simply DON'T WANT TO - I mean, imagine that? imagine how FREEING that could feel.

You get your booty back, your social life, your confidence in a job/work/study - and you grow.

I'm really liking the more relaxed tone to your posts (I know it's not easy). You're doing fantastically!


----------



## SaltInWound

Check your PMs


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda I totally hear you!
> 
> We're women. We like talking, sharing, empathizing, understanding. We want to resolve things and share our feelings.
> 
> His actions haven't shown him worthy of you being so available emotionally to him. Does that make sense?
> 
> I think with this new empowered you, and a little pulling back on the reigns, you will start to see yourself in a new light and might even find yourself stopping yourself opening up to him because you simply DON'T WANT TO - I mean, imagine that? imagine how FREEING that could feel.
> 
> You get your booty back, your social life, your confidence in a job/work/study - and you grow.
> 
> I'm really liking the more relaxed tone to your posts (I know it's not easy). You're doing fantastically!


I feel disgusted by him. I look at him and see all the mean things he's done to me and all the cruel words he has spoken to me over the past 4 years and wonder how could I still have feelings for this man... 

Even if things get better, this man never kisses me... I have tried to kiss a man who keeps his lips frozen... it's like kissing a dead person... and why in the world did I keep trying to? Pathetic! I mean really, you kiss a man whose mouth does not move... :scratchhead:

When in Paris, I saw an old friend of mine and he gave me a heartfelt hug (nothing sexual or anyting) but it felt so GOOD! I could have stayed in his arms the whole day... It felt so good just to feel alive...


----------



## turnera

ftr, he never had any intention of having any 'talk' with you. He only said that because you were leaving him for a week and he wanted to ensure you'd be shaking in your boots the whole time you were away and thus unable to consider life without him.


----------



## SaltInWound

Ellie5 said:


> I think with this new empowered you, and a little pulling back on the reigns, you will start to see yourself in a new light and might even find yourself stopping yourself opening up to him because you simply DON'T WANT TO - I mean, imagine that? imagine how FREEING that could feel.


The day you can listen to this song and FEEL it, is the day you are on the other side. 

Phil Collins - I Dont Care Anymore (Official Music Video) - YouTube

Linda, you question his motive about your weight. You have come to your own conclusion and you see that most likely wanting you heavy benefited him in some way, meanwhile causing you negativity. This will help you to stop asking why, because soon you will see him for who he is and will come to expect his next move and understand why he will do it. (Remember how we predicted the motive for that speech before you left for the trip and how he would react when you returned). You will ask yourself why you even bothered trying to have a relationship with a person like that, because your efforts are futile and only causes you suffering. That is when you won't care anymore. 

Keep up the progress. Stay positive. Don't let him get you down. If he is "tired", then take your son out to eat. You let him know you wanted to go out to dinner and he did not want to go, so don't let that stop you. Take your son out for ice cream or anything you both would enjoy together. Let your husband realize your life doesn't revolve around him. So what if he sulks and removes "hello" and "goodbye" from you again. You didn't need it anyway.


----------



## Troubledlinda

:smthumbup:


SaltInWound said:


> The day you can listen to this song and FEEL it, is the day you are on the other side.
> 
> Phil Collins - I Dont Care Anymore (Official Music Video) - YouTube
> 
> Linda, you question his motive about your weight. You have come to your own conclusion and you see that most likely wanting you heavy benefited him in some way, meanwhile causing you negativity. This will help you to stop asking why, because soon you will see him for who he is and will come to expect his next move and understand why he will do it. (Remember how we predicted the motive for that speech before you left for the trip and how he would react when you returned). You will ask yourself why you even bothered trying to have a relationship with a person like that, because your efforts are futile and only causes you suffering. That is when you won't care anymore.
> 
> Keep up the progress. Stay positive. Don't let him get you down. If he is "tired", then take your son out to eat. You let him know you wanted to go out to dinner and he did not want to go, so don't let that stop you. Take your son out for ice cream or anything you both would enjoy together. Let your husband realize your life doesn't revolve around him. So what if he sulks and removes "hello" and "goodbye" from you again. You didn't need it anyway.


:smthumbup: and all that at his expense! :rofl: remember he gave me a debit card from his account (in front of my folks, the night I arrived)

After all, he made me quit my job... I have no income.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> ftr, he never had any intention of having any 'talk' with you. He only said that because you were leaving him for a week and he wanted to ensure you'd be shaking in your boots the whole time you were away and thus unable to consider life without him.


Oh yeah! I forgot. oups... no talk, Linda, no talk


----------



## Troubledlinda

Silent treatment: DAY 72 - SEVENTY TWO 
What a waste of time!


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Silent treatment: DAY 72 - SEVENTY TWO
> What a waste of time!


Not really a waste of time. You are learning something from it. Now put that knowledge to use. It is only when you do nothing, that the time is wasted.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Not really a waste of time. You are learning something from it. Now put that knowledge to use. It is only when you do nothing, that the time is wasted.


True


----------



## Troubledlinda

BTW while I was in Paris, I really wanted to birng him back something (old habit I guess... everytime one of us goes away, we always bring gifts for the one who stayed... except this time the situation is different) So was conflicted in my thouhgts on this and decided that this time he didn't deserve a gift so I didn't buy him anything.... On the plane, however, I felt like it would be wrong of me to come back empty handed to I bought him a very nice after-shave/perfume set... but when I arrived home I decided not to give it to him so I still have it...


----------



## SaltInWound

Do not reward him. That would be like making a cake for the schoolyard bully. Throw it away.


----------



## Ellie5

SaltInWound said:


> Don't let him get you down. If he is "tired", then take your son out to eat. You let him know you wanted to go out to dinner and he did not want to go, so don't let that stop you. Take your son out for ice cream or anything you both would enjoy together. Let your husband realize your life doesn't revolve around him. So what if he sulks and removes "hello" and "goodbye" from you again. You didn't need it anyway.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Linda don't give him any bl*** aftershave, are you kidding?? 

Of course you crave affection, you're human - just a cuddle and some warmth - seek it from your friends and family - in fact go out of your way to *give* someone you know and love a hug rather than wait for it to happen. Don't be so desperate to desire it from him and lose yourself in the process.

Sending you big heartfelt cyber hugs! You're not alone Linda. You also sound like a very giving and thoughtful person. When those moments in life I've felt that yearning ache for love and affection the best way to receive is to go give it - nourish your emotional needs in *giving* that side of you (and it will come back  )


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> Linda don't give him any bl*** aftershave, are you kidding??
> 
> Of course you crave affection, you're human - just a cuddle and some warmth - seek it from your friends and family - in fact go out of your way to *give* someone you know and love a hug rather than wait for it to happen. Don't be so desperate to desire it from him and lose yourself in the process.
> 
> Sending you big heartfelt cyber hugs! You're not alone Linda. You also sound like a very giving and thoughtful person. When those moments in life I've felt that yearning ache for love and affection the best way to receive is to go give it - nourish your emotional needs in *giving* that side of you (and it will come back  )


Thank you girls! 
Yeah I crave his love and affection but the sad thing is even if I did give him the gift, which I wont (I'll give it to my brother) I wouldn't even receive a warm hug... I'd just get a peck on the lips and he might even say that he doesn't like that much... aaagh lost case... pfff! whatever!


----------



## Troubledlinda

I think I'm getting closer and closer to making a decision... I feel like the only way to end this endless silence and neglect is to leave... I don't see any other way, I've tried everything, it's just not working!!! 

Today my son said to me: "Mommy I don't want to talk to you anymore because you were mean to me" (I raised my voice at him cause he wouldn't stop jumping on the couch with a pencil in his hand)


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> I think I'm getting closer and closer to making a decision... I feel like the only way to end this endless silence and neglect is to leave... I don't see any other way, I've tried everything, it's just not working!!!
> 
> Today my son said to me: "Mommy I don't want to talk to you anymore because you were mean to me" (I raised my voice at him cause he wouldn't stop jumping on the couch with a pencil in his hand)


Whoa - he's what, 3 years old - and already he's showing that he's influenced by the dynamic in your relationship with your H.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Tried to have a "talk" with H this evening about us... I told him I don't want to live like this anymore and i conclude from his silence that he doesn't want to have anything to do with me anymore... I told him I want out and I will get myself organized to leave... He doesn't seem to care. 

He didn't even look at me the whole time I was talking to him, he kept working on his laptop.

"don't ask me questions, you said you wanted to talk, so talk and say whatever you have to say" 

I told him to at least look at me when I speak (simple sign of courtasy) to which he responded: "I will look at you depending on what you say... If you start talking your usual BS, don't expect me to look at you"

How can anybody be so cruel???? and cold hearted? 

I told him I didn't get married to be with a man who never touches me, never shows any affection, never asks how I'm doing, doesn't care if I'm sad or sick. 

He said I had a psychological problem to which I responded: "good, we can go see a therapist together cause you need one as much as I do"... then he said, show me all your self-help books you bought on your trip... you always say you like psychology so why don't you read about it instead of spending your time on facebook (which I don't even do anymore) (don't know how he knows about my books)

This sucks!!!


----------



## Ellie5

Linda stop *communicating* with him. He clearly enjoys pressing your buttons. You left yourself AGAIN wide open "trying to have a talk" - you're immediately putting yourself in a weak place. I don't blame you for feeling or saying the things you did but you're playing right back into his hands. Remember, he should be wondering what you're feeling, not be given it on a silver plate.

I'd be considering if I wanted to live in the house with my child and kick him out (divorce) or move out yourself and take your son (divorce).

This man is pushing you every which way. Don't involve him in your plans or decisions, just carry them out.

You're letting him hurt you. So stop him from doing this. You are more than capable, just stop opening up to him.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda stop *communicating* with him. He clearly enjoys pressing your buttons. You left yourself AGAIN wide open "trying to have a talk" - you're immediately putting yourself in a weak place. I don't blame you for feeling or saying the things you did but you're playing right back into his hands. Remember, he should be wondering what you're feeling, not be given it on a silver plate.
> 
> I'd be considering if I wanted to live in the house with my child and kick him out (divorce) or move out yourself and take your son (divorce).
> 
> This man is pushing you every which way. Don't involve him in your plans or decisions, just carry them out.
> 
> You're letting him hurt you. So stop him from doing this. You are more than capable, just stop opening up to him.


I can't stay in a house with someone and act like everythng is cool when it's not... He is the master of ignoring and being cuel. 
I need answers, I need to know what next, I can just sit there and act like all is cool... Whether we stay together or split, we still have to talk... Why is it so complicated to have a simple conversation? Is he really that mentally ill? 

I wouldnt stay in the house... It was his before we got married and he was already living here at the time. I will have to find a place of my own... I just want peace. I can't take this anymore... I don't deserve this. He keeps saying that I'm the one with the problem, I am the one treating him poorly... What did I do to you that was so bad?


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> I can't stay in a house with someone and act like everythng is cool when it's not... He is the master of ignoring and being cuel.
> I need answers, I need to know what next, I can just sit there and act like all is cool... Whether we stay together or split, we still have to talk... Why is it so complicated to have a simple conversation? Is he really that mentally ill?



I certainly can't blame you for at least trying to get some answers. You are human after all. I disagree a little with Elle5 - you have to at least ask these questions.

It can be frustrating without closure. Years ago, a female friend of mine was engaged to a man who just checked out with no explanation. One day, he was supposed to meet her family, never arrived, and later on the phone gave some bizarre excuses why he didn't show up. Every time she tried to meet him later, he gave some excuse why he couldn't do it. But he said he still loved her, everything was fine, etc. Out of frustration, she stopped calling him, waited for him to call her, and he never did. So obviously, they never married. To this day, it's really frustrating to her, because in her words, "we never officially broke up". He just avoided her until the relationship ended on it's own. She would have much preferred that he simply told her he was breaking up, so she wouldn't have to wait around for weeks wondering what was going on. To this day, like 15 years later, it still bothers her because she never got closure. Essentially, the guy was a coward. 

Your husband seems like he's cut from the same cloth. It sucks, but what else can you do? You made a good faith effort to talk to him or see a therapist together, and he simply blamed you for everything without offering any feasible solutions of his own. I know it's maddening, but his refusal to address the problem is actually a pretty clear communication of what he really wants: he wants nothing from you. I hate to put it so harshly, but there's no way to sugarcoat it except to hope this is a phase, and he's temporarily insane, on drugs, or otherwise simply not himself.


----------



## Openminded

He has made it clear he is not interested in talking to you. So you will have to decide on your own what comes next. Some people cannot or will not communicate. He has shown you who he is. Show him who you are.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> I certainly can't blame you for at least trying to get some answers. You are human after all. I disagree a little with Elle5 - you have to at least ask these questions.
> 
> It can be frustrating without closure. Years ago, a female friend of mine was engaged to a man who just checked out with no explanation. One day, he was supposed to meet her family, never arrived, and later on the phone gave some bizarre excuses why he didn't show up. Every time she tried to meet him later, he gave some excuse why he couldn't do it. But he said he still loved her, everything was fine, etc. Out of frustration, she stopped calling him, waited for him to call her, and he never did. So obviously, they never married. To this day, it's really frustrating to her, because in her words, "we never officially broke up". He just avoided her until the relationship ended on it's own. She would have much preferred that he simply told her he was breaking up, so she wouldn't have to wait around for weeks wondering what was going on. To this day, like 15 years later, it still bothers her because she never got closure. Essentially, the guy was a coward.
> 
> Your husband seems like he's cut from the same cloth. It sucks, but what else can you do? You made a good faith effort to talk to him or see a therapist together, and he simply blamed you for everything without offering any feasible solutions of his own. I know it's maddening, but his refusal to address the problem is actually a pretty clear communication of what he really wants: he wants nothing from you. I hate to put it so harshly, but there's no way to sugarcoat it except to hope this is a phase, and he's temporarily insane, on drugs, or otherwise simply not himself.


Yes, you said what I was trying to express. I need closure, tell me you don't love me, tell me you made a mistake by marrying me, slap me, tell me what I did wrong, tell me it's over, but don't keep asking me to talk to you in a certain way or to say certain things that will make you stop the ST or stop treating me poorly... this is really bizarre and frustrating... 

I have no hope and yet since he's not telling me what he wants, I feel like I'm gonna wake up one day and think: "oh maybe he didn't really want to break up but I didn't understand what he was trying to say or I didn't understand what I was supposed to say"... I don't even know what I'm saying, I feel like I'm going insane... 

I cried so much I felt like I was gonna faint from lack of air... I feel like I'm going to throw up...


----------



## northernlights

Theseus said:


> It can be frustrating without closure. Years ago, a female friend of mine was engaged to a man who just checked out with no explanation.


I had a boyfriend like this in college. One day before Christmas break he talked me into going to a party I didn't want to go to (because another ex was going to be there), so I ended up going. He never showed. He never talked to me again! He went from planning a trip to my parents' house to meet them over break to just nothing. Bizarre.

Linda, I'm sorry that your H is not going to give you the closure you desire. I spent so much time trying to figure out why my husband did what he did too. Eventually I was able to take my focus off of him, and it's been amazingly freeing. 

Keep working at yourself. See a lawyer and file for divorce when you're ready, but do it on your own timeline. You want to go into a divorce on your own terms, not his.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> It's hard to swallow that people stop caring for us but it happens.


I want to hear him say it... I want the truth... I know he won't though


----------



## Troubledlinda

northernlights said:


> Eventually I was able to take my focus off of him, and it's been amazingly freeing.


How do you do that? Are you still married to your H?


----------



## northernlights

Troubledlinda said:


> How do you do that? Are you still married to your H?


We are still married, but only because I'm not ready to file yet. We have kids that I'm not ready to lose 100% custody of. 

I was able to detach when I realized that I am not responsible for his feelings. That I don't have to worry about how everything makes him feel, that he's a grown-up who can handle his feelings by himself. Conversely, I am responsible for how I feel, and what I feel matters. It took a while, but I realized that every time I fixated on him, I was avoiding taking ownership of myself. It really is like breaking a habit... you just keep reminding yourself when you find yourself thinking about him that you deserve that energy for yourself.

The downside is, I'm so totally detached now that I wouldn't want to work on the relationship even if he did. Which he doesn't, so it's no loss...


----------



## Troubledlinda

northernlights said:


> We are still married, but only because I'm not ready to file yet. We have kids that I'm not ready to lose 100% custody of.
> 
> I was able to detach when I realized that I am not responsible for his feelings. That I don't have to worry about how everything makes him feel, that he's a grown-up who can handle his feelings by himself. Conversely, I am responsible for how I feel, and what I feel matters. It took a while, but I realized that every time I fixated on him, I was avoiding taking ownership of myself. It really is like breaking a habit... you just keep reminding yourself when you find yourself thinking about him that you deserve that energy for yourself.
> 
> The downside is, I'm so totally detached now that I wouldn't want to work on the relationship even if he did. Which he doesn't, so it's no loss...


So how do you interract with each other? Do you talk normally? have fun family times together? Are you intimate? do you have a normal social life?


----------



## Abc123wife

"I need answers, I need to know what next, I can just sit there and act like all is cool... Whether we stay together or split, we still have to talk... Why is it so complicated to have a simple conversation? Is he really that mentally ill?"

I have been reading your story for awhile. It is incredibly sad that anyone, especially your husband, would treat you this way. 

Why are you waiting for him to give you answers or tell you what to do next? It seems pretty clear what you have to do and you have to do it for yourself and child. And yes, he does seem that mentally ill, so why let someone who is not mentally stable make your life decisions?


----------



## northernlights

Troubledlinda said:


> So how do you interract with each other? Do you talk normally? have fun family times together? Are you intimate? do you have a normal social life?


It's kind of bizarre, but we mostly avoid each other. We talk about trivial things. I think H is getting what he wants--an emotionally bankrupt relationship. We do things together with the kids even though I'd much rather do things without him. Intimacy, rarely. Only when I just really need it!!

I have a thread in going through divorce or separation that might help you. It's painfully long but records the process by which I slowly detached. Personally, I feel so much stronger and more grounded now. It's been totally worth the work.


----------



## SaltInWound

northernlights said:


> It's kind of bizarre, but we mostly avoid each other. We talk about trivial things. I think H is getting what he wants--an emotionally bankrupt relationship. We do things together with the kids even though I'd much rather do things without him. Intimacy, rarely. Only when I just really need it!!


Yes, that is how it was for us as well. Bankrupt. Our grown son describes our family vacations as he and I silently following stbxh as he dis what he wanted to do. There was no happiness. No bonding. Do you want that for your son, Linda?


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Today my son said to me: "Mommy I don't want to talk to you anymore because you were mean to me" (I raised my voice at him cause he wouldn't stop jumping on the couch with a pencil in his hand)


SO you see, he has been taking mental notes. It works for daddy, so it will work for him too. They practice on mum, and perfect it for his girlfriends and wives. Imagine life with this passive aggressive stuff in stereo. I lived with it. You think it is maddening right now.....try deprogramming him when he is in his teens, still under dad's influence. Nip it in the bud!


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Today my son said to me: "Mommy I don't want to talk to you anymore because you were mean to me" (I raised my voice at him cause he wouldn't stop jumping on the couch with a pencil in his hand)


Oh no! 

See? We told you he would turn into his dad if he stayed around him all the time.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> I need answers, I need to know what next


No, you don't. That's a victim's response.

When you are ready, you will know. And you won't continue to say 'I need answers.'

You'll just be done.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> I want to hear him say it... I want the truth... *I know he won't, though*


Then what is your goal? If you know he won't give you what you are waiting for?

fwiw, the ONLY way he could POSSIBLY ever give you what you want is if you remove yourself from his side and give him a REASON to change.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Oh no!
> 
> See? We told you he would turn into his dad if he stayed around him all the time.


I know! I was so shocked! I can't believe how a 3 year old can have that response... I kept thinking that maybe he saw it on his cartoons as I couldn't believe that he would imitate daddy. How does he know that there is tension? We're not fighting or anything...


----------



## LonelyinLove

Glad to read you had a good vacation Linda!


----------



## Advocado

Linda - next time you are tempted to try and have a conversation with your H about your future, take a moment to think back to how you are feeling following this attempt at having such a conversation. Do you want to feel like this again? 

Asking, begging, pleading for answers from your H has got you nowhere in the past and will get *you *nowhere you want to be in the future either IMP. Conversely, for your H it gets him off on feeling like he is in the driving seat controlling your emotions. Do you ever get the impression that as you fall he rises? Okay, I know this is not a competition, but you can and need to step out from this merrygoround.

Don't let him, or anyone else for that matter, control your emotions. Map out what you want for the future and start executing the steps inbetween to get you where you want to be. You don't need anyone's permission in order to start moving on. 

I believe I understand where you are coming from about wanting closure. I feel you are owed and entitled to closure - but it's painfully obvious that this is not going to be forthcoming from your H. So I think you need to try and give yourself closure. As you know by now I am a believer in positive thinking and you yourself said the positive affirmations helped you at least to some extent. So keep up with the affirmations and you can add another one about closure - how about 


*"With or without the closure I deserve from others, I am moving on to betting things."*​
_Ask yourself what else you can do that you haven't already tried time and time again to make your relationship work. _

When you get to the point at which you accept that you have done everything you can to make things work you thus have a form of closure that encompasses that you tried your utmost and have every right (further a responsibility) to save yourself and your child from future torment.


----------



## Blondilocks

Troubledlinda said:


> I know! I was so shocked! I can't believe how a 3 year old can have that response... I kept thinking that maybe he saw it on his cartoons as I couldn't believe that he would imitate daddy. How does he know that there is tension? We're not fighting or anything...


You can't believe that he would imitate daddy? Seriously? That is too stupid a statement to even address.

Children feel the tension in a household just like anyone else. Parents might think that because they're not yelling or throwing things the kids won't know. They know!


----------



## turnera

Yeah, remember that to a 3 year old, you and your H are their WORLD. 

EVERYTHING comes from you too. Just like a pet dog will pay strict attention to everything you do, so will your child. Their life depends on it. What you do, is what they learn. Period.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Yeah, remember that to a 3 year old, you and your H are their WORLD.
> 
> EVERYTHING comes from you too. Just like a pet dog will pay strict attention to everything you do, so will your child. Their life depends on it. What you do, is what they learn. Period.


Yeah, you're right. I find myself getting more and more agressive with him! I get so impatient and irritated when he doesn't do as I say... I yell at him and today I grabbed him by the arm because he was taking his time coming to the bathroom at bath time when I wanted him to come right away  and he cried so much and asked why i was always angry at him... poor thing, I felt so bad... I have to stop this!!! come on Linda, stop it!!!!

How does one person deal with all these emotions? I have constant headaches and puffy eyes... this is just too much!


----------



## turnera

Get away from the stress, and you will.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> _Ask yourself what else you can do that you haven't already tried time and time again to make your relationship work. _
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I really feel like I've tried everything! Other than MC, which he wont do and is not available anyways where we live... Everyone who has tried to talk some sense into him have failed... he tells everyone that things are ok and got angry at his mom for even bringing up the subject.
> I can't force him... I can't change him... I think pleading and begging and crying on my knees would break the silence but I refuse to do it this time!!! I have done it too many times and it only breaks the silence until the next silence... It does not solve the real problem... So no, I wont do it!


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Get away from the stress, and you will.


I am on my way out... I wanted to stick around till Christmas so son can be home with his dad but I don't know if I'll make it that far! Plus what good is it to spend Christmas together when we're not talking. 

We did it 2 years ago and pretended that we were fine as we went to my parents christmas eve and his parents christmas day (another episode of ST when he said he was gonna punish me till after the holidays) - spent New years watching tv alone while he was on his PC...


----------



## turnera

Well, just think, you may get to spend THIS holidays with people who love you and treat you well! Think how much your son will enjoy that.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Well, just think, you may get to spend THIS holidays with people who love you and treat you well! Think how much your son will enjoy that.


:iagree:


----------



## bailingout

Troubledlinda said:


> Yeah, you're right. I find myself getting more and more agressive with him! I get so impatient and irritated when he doesn't do as I say... I yell at him and today I grabbed him by the arm because he was taking his time coming to the bathroom at bath time when I wanted him to come right away  and he cried so much and asked why i was always angry at him... poor thing, I felt so bad... I have to stop this!!! come on Linda, stop it!!!!
> 
> How does one person deal with all these emotions? I have constant headaches and puffy eyes... this is just too much!


YOU have to get control of YOURSELF!!!! This is not a mother in control of her own feelings. You are teaching your son that it is ok to yell at people and to grab them. Both of these are abusive and YOU are doing it to a 3 year old.

Here are a few things you can try.
1. Separate your relationship with your son (stay calm and in control) from the relationship with your H (stay in control of yourself and ignore his behavior). You can do this while you are still in the same house but it is challenging. 
2. You cannot raise your voice to your son for any reason. When you feel you are getting upset...STOP yourself. DO NOT REACT--KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Freeze and take a deep breath. Tell yourself I will treat my son the way I want to be treated. Breath again and again until you are ready to speak to him respectfully. If you have to, SAY NOTHING for a minute or two to get yourself together. Feel your anger but do not react to it. THIS WILL BE VERY HARD TO DO. 
3. In regards to the bath episode--when my D is not doing what I want right away, I stop for a few seconds and say to myself--is she acting like an 8 year old and does it really matter if it takes another minute or two for her to get in the shower? Probably not- let the moment pass (meaning acknowledge how I feel keep control of myself) and then get back to the task at hand. 

Linda , you can do this. I've done it while living with my H. 

STOP reacting in the moment. When you mess up (which you will) forgive yourself immediately and move on.

When I first started doing this I messed up. If I raised my voice to my D, she would get upset (of course). I would apologize to her and say "I'm sorry sweetie, I should not have yelled at you. Yelling is not nice and there is no excuse for it. Will you forgive me? (of course she said yes) I love you" and give her a hug. It only took a few times before I stopped yelling all together. BUT I HAD TO STOP, FREEZE, BREATHE AND KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT MANY TIMES!!!!! to get to this point.

YOU CAN DO IT TOO!!!!


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I know! I was so shocked! I can't believe how a 3 year old can have that response... I kept thinking that maybe he saw it on his cartoons as I couldn't believe that he would imitate daddy. How does he know that there is tension? We're not fighting or anything...


Think about it, Linda. The other day your son saw that daddy wasn't sitting at the table to eat dinner. He told his dad to sit and eat. Why do you think he did that? It is because you and your husband have been the example in his life. When dinner is ready, he is to sit and eat. He saw his dad not coming to the table, so he knew something was wrong......something negative. He can see that dad isn't talking to mum. He can see that it has been a pretty normal thing in the house lately and the longer he is without family bonding, the more it has an impact on him. When you remove positive elements and consistency, children pick up on it as a negative. You may think you are good at hiding it, but children are like sponges.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Yeah, you're right. I find myself getting more and more agressive with him! I get so impatient and irritated when he doesn't do as I say... I yell at him and today I grabbed him by the arm because he was taking his time coming to the bathroom at bath time when I wanted him to come right away  and he cried so much and asked why i was always angry at him... poor thing, I felt so bad... I have to stop this!!! come on Linda, stop it!!!!
> 
> How does one person deal with all these emotions? I have constant headaches and puffy eyes... this is just too much!


I know what the problem is. You have lost control of the situation with your husband. You can't get him to listen to you, or speak to you. This lack of ability to control him......and your environment has caused an extreme amount of frustration and you have not found a healthy outlet. The only thing in your life you feel you have control of is your son. As your child, he should obey. And there is the control, although horribly misplaced. The problem is, you are projecting your feelings for your husband onto him. Not good, and you realize this. 

Now, more than ever, you need to be in control of yourself. You need to be the positive in your son's life. He needs to see you as a constant.......he needs to see you as a symbol of love and understanding. Don't make your son fear you. He needs to know he can always come to you if he feels sad. If you show anger to your son, consider this his clue to why dad doesn't talk to you........this is another source of where he is picking up on tension in the house. 

Don't give your husband ammo. He wants you to look like the bad guy and he the victim. Who is going to believe otherwise if your son tells people that you are always angry and grabbing his arm? Your son will only be reinforcing your husband's victim role. Remember that your husband feels anger, but bottles it. He is good at it. People will never believe he is the problem if you show your anger outwardly. 

If you need to, go outside until you calm down. Turn on some music. Make your plans to get out of this nightmare of a relationship. It is hurting your son.


----------



## northernlights

:iagree:
Everything SaltInWound said is spot on.



SaltInWound said:


> If you need to, go outside until you calm down. Turn on some music. Make your plans to get out of this nightmare of a relationship. It is hurting your son.


Sometimes we all hit a rough patch. When I've felt like I could lose it with my kids, my trick is to pretend they're one of their friends. Or I pretend my mother is in the room. If I have to, I call someone or get in the shower. Talking out the frustrations with a good friend always calms me down, as does a nice hot shower. My girls know that if I storm out of the room and hop in the shower that I'm at the end of my rope. Hopefully they're learning that everyone has trouble coping sometimes, it's how you handle those feelings that matter. 

Take care of yourself Linda, your son needs his mom to be in control!


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> Advocado said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Ask yourself what else you can do that you haven't already tried time and time again to make your relationship work. _
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I really feel like I've tried everything! Other than MC, which he wont do and is not available anyways where we live... Everyone who has tried to talk some sense into him have failed... he tells everyone that things are ok and got angry at his mom for even bringing up the subject.
> I can't force him... I can't change him... I think pleading and begging and crying on my knees would break the silence but I refuse to do it this time!!! *I have done it too many times and it only breaks the silence until the next silence... It does not solve the real problem... So no, I wont do it!*
> 
> 
> 
> Well said Linda - you *know *and own what doesn't work. You *know *that you cannot make him change. Don't go that road again.
> 
> I think now is a good time for you to make some time to read through the whole of your thread and make a new road. please reflect long and hard on the many thoughtful, wise, suggestions and advice you have been offered by the caring folks of TAM.
Click to expand...


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I am on my way out... I wanted to stick around till Christmas so son can be home with his dad but I don't know if I'll make it that far! Plus what good is it to spend Christmas together when we're not talking.
> 
> We did it 2 years ago and pretended that we were fine as we went to my parents christmas eve and his parents christmas day (another episode of ST when he said he was gonna punish me till after the holidays) - spent New years watching tv alone while he was on his PC...


This is progress. You are predicting his behavior. You see that this is never going to end. 

Do you remember Christmas the year you were 3? I will be honest. At that age, a child doesn't hold the entire day as significantly as an adult. Your husband could call him and say "Sorry buddy, I can't come over today. I have to work." Your son will most likely drop the phone and go play with his new toys. It won't register to him that there is to be a big meal, or large family gathering. If you did not give him any gifts, it wouldn't make a difference, because Dec 25 is no different to him than Dec 24 and Dec 26. Your husband can choose to see his son if he wants to see him. He can make arrangements that is convenient for both of you. Whether your son sees dad 5 minutes or 5 hours won't make a bit of difference to him (your son). At 3, he has no concept of time. Stop making decisions based on what you think your son is going to miss out on when it comes to his dad.


----------



## Wise Fairy

Hi TL & ALL,

This is so sad TL you went away came back and the sod still isn't talking to you, no wonder you feel like you do. 

They are f....g ruthless and heartless and wish there was a vacuum that sucked them up phew got that out. 

It's degrading, demoralizing, I've just been going through this myself and still am with the bf now ex (4+ years) because I am letting go slow process for me but I like you am sick of it. 4 years of no love and affection, when I could of had that I am still an attractive woman. 

Yes I got depressed probably still am a bit but I felt like I was at the end of a pier and then turned and pulled myself back. 

SIW
I loved your videos, especially the KPerry one I wish I could get one soccer punch in I would feel so....much better. 

TL your son is seeing what's going on he is playing mediator between your husband and you can you see that, he is talking telling dad what to do ie: sitting at the table, and your patience is wearing thin. 

So TL you know you don't want to live like this, it sucks you have your family, they will help you. Did you consult anyone to ask about any rights should you decide to leave, get strong now. Get all you pertinent papers in order copy take them to your parents. 

You have tried talking to him it doesn't work, I tried that myself all I got was blame shifting, I still don't know what I have done, I've gone over it and over it again in my head. No response from him and more ST I am out. :redcard:

Today I wrote a poem it seemed fitting for me it was a realization that I cannot control this situation neither can you I feel I am traumatized by it all and will seek counseling at the Y since it is emotional abuse. Come on now react in a positive way to move forward do what you need to do to help you and your son. 

Here you go: 

* I know that I am in control of this ship now, I have grabbed the wheel firmly and am steering in the right direction, I have not reached my first destination but feel it is only a matter of time. The waves are a bit rocky, the bumps are a bit scary, but I plow on I am heading North back to myself. I see the light on the horizon, the warm glow that touches my face and that what is beckoning to me.. These layers of hurt are starting to fall off my body like wet water weights that have kept me in the same spot for so long. And so my journey begins....*

If you want to do the counseling then start yourself with IC so you can really see and understand what's going on and what effect it will have in the future. 


Peace be with you


----------



## Troubledlinda

Wise Fairy said:


> Hi TL & ALL,
> 
> This is so sad TL you went away came back and the sod still isn't talking to you, no wonder you feel like you do.
> 
> They are f....g ruthless and heartless and wish there was a vacuum that sucked them up phew got that out.
> 
> It's degrading, demoralizing, I've just been going through this myself and still am with the bf now ex (4+ years) because I am letting go slow process for me but I like you am sick of it. 4 years of no love and affection, when I could of had that I am still an attractive woman.
> 
> Yes I got depressed probably still am a bit but I felt like I was at the end of a pier and then turned and pulled myself back.
> 
> SIW
> I loved your videos, especially the KPerry one I wish I could get one soccer punch in I would feel so....much better.
> 
> TL your son is seeing what's going on he is playing mediator between your husband and you can you see that, he is talking telling dad what to do ie: sitting at the table, and your patience is wearing thin.
> 
> So TL you know you don't want to live like this, it sucks you have your family, they will help you. Did you consult anyone to ask about any rights should you decide to leave, get strong now. Get all you pertinent papers in order copy take them to your parents.
> 
> You have tried talking to him it doesn't work, I tried that myself all I got was blame shifting, I still don't know what I have done, I've gone over it and over it again in my head. No response from him and more ST I am out. :redcard:
> 
> Today I wrote a poem it seemed fitting for me it was a realization that I cannot control this situation neither can you I feel I am traumatized by it all and will seek counseling at the Y since it is emotional abuse. Come on now react in a positive way to move forward do what you need to do to help you and your son.
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> * I know that I am in control of this ship now, I have grabbed the wheel firmly and am steering in the right direction, I have not reached my first destination but feel it is only a matter of time. The waves are a bit rocky, the bumps are a bit scary, but I plow on I am heading North back to myself. I see the light on the horizon, the warm glow that touches my face and that what is beckoning to me.. These layers of hurt are starting to fall off my body like wet water weights that have kept me in the same spot for so long. And so my journey begins....*
> 
> If you want to do the counseling then start yourself with IC so you can really see and understand what's going on and what effect it will have in the future.
> 
> 
> Peace be with you


I like your poem! Thanks for sharing. We'll get through this... others have before us so we will too... Life is not over... there are plenty beautiful days ahead! If this was my last day on earth, i wouldn't want to live it this way so I will make every possible effort to make my life and my son's life peaceful and beautiful! 

I have to do this for myself, I have to do this for my son, I can no longer live like this...

I had a life before him, I'l have a life after him... I am smart, beautiful, funny, kind, respectful of people, considerate... this is what I will teach my son...


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> We'll get through this... others have before us so we will too... Life is not over... there are plenty beautiful days ahead! If this was my last day on earth, i wouldn't want to live it this way so I will make every possible effort to make my life and my son's life peaceful and beautiful!
> 
> I have to do this for myself, I have to do this for my son, I can no longer live like this...
> 
> I had a life before him, I'l have a life after him... I am smart, beautiful, funny, kind, respectful of people, considerate... this is what I will teach my son...


A fantastic post. I can feel the strength and optimism in it.


----------



## Jennifer871

Troubledlinda said:


> I like your poem! Thanks for sharing. We'll get through this... others have before us so we will too... Life is not over... there are plenty beautiful days ahead! If this was my last day on earth, i wouldn't want to live it this way so I will make every possible effort to make my life and my son's life peaceful and beautiful!
> 
> I have to do this for myself, I have to do this for my son, I can no longer live like this...
> 
> I had a life before him, I'l have a life after him... I am smart, beautiful, funny, kind, respectful of people, considerate... this is what I will teach my son...


This is amazing and so true! Good luck!


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> ...
> 
> I had a life before him, I'l have a life after him... I am smart, beautiful, funny, kind, respectful of people, considerate... this is what I will teach my son...



YES ! :smthumbup:


----------



## Troubledlinda

The more I watch his behavior, the more it convinces me that this is no life to live... He gets worse day by day... we haven't spoken 1 word since sunday night... NO CONTACT in the same house and in the same bed... I wander why he doesn't sleep on the couch like he normally does when he's upset... He gets into bed, sleeps on the edge of the bed, hides under the covers and puts a pillow over his head... (one morning our son came into our bed and asked me where's daddy? daddy was right next to him under the covers... what an idiot! 

He bangs the front door when he leaves for work in the AM... Crazy!!! Comes and goes as he pleases, without saying a word....


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> The more I watch his behavior, the more it convinces me that this is no life to live... He gets worse day by day... we haven't spoken 1 word since sunday night... NO CONTACT in the same house and in the same bed... I wander why he doesn't sleep on the couch like he normally does when he's upset... He gets into bed, sleeps on the edge of the bed, hides under the covers and puts a pillow over his head... (one morning our son came into our bed and asked me where's daddy? daddy was right next to him under the covers... what an idiot!
> 
> He bangs the front door when he leaves for work in the AM... Crazy!!! Comes and goes as he pleases, without saying a word....


That's good, it will be that much easier to get out of this then!

Just be prepared, Linda, that when you finally get yourself to the point that you tell him that you are done with this marriage, he is probably going to crumble into a blubbering mess. If he doesnt, I will eat my shoe! Thats what happened with my ex who used to verbally abuse me and give me the silent treatment. He cried like a big freakin baby, after all the sh!t and misery he put me through, he had the nerve to act hurt. And OH he LOOOVES me. When I asked him WHY he had treated me the way he did, he said "I DONT KNOW"...seriously?? :scratchhead: So dont expect a real answer to that question, you will either get nothing, or you will get all the blame.


----------



## turnera

I'm glad you're seeing the truth finally.


----------



## Troubledlinda

3Xnocharm said:


> Just be prepared, Linda, that when you finally get yourself to the point that you tell him that you are done with this marriage, he is probably going to crumble into a blubbering mess. If he doesnt, I will eat my shoe!


:rofl: I really don't want you to eat your shoe but I doubt he will come after me or even cry (have never seen him cry). I think he will let me go without a fight and be relieved that I finally got the message


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> I'm glad you're seeing the truth finally.


Eyes are slowly opening while heart is slowly closing...


----------



## turnera

That's how it works, hon...

{{{linda}}}

There is happiness out there for you, whether it's with another man or just enjoying your life with your son.

My mom never dated again after she kicked my dad out. Not til I was in my 20s. I don't want to sound preachy, but I thank her all the time for waiting, and making me feel like I mattered than her just having a man beside her.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> That's how it works, hon...
> 
> {{{linda}}}
> 
> There is happiness out there for you, whether it's with another man or just enjoying your life with your son.
> 
> My mom never dated again after she kicked my dad out. Not til I was in my 20s. I don't want to sound preachy, but I thank her all the time for waiting, and making me feel like I mattered than her just having a man beside her.


I think after this, I need to be alone and take care of myself and my son... As much as I love the company, friendship and love of a man, I really don't feel like having one around for now... 

My mom said something to me the other day that really hit me: "you always seem to attract this type of men... I wander if that's what you love in men, you deserve someone who will treat you like a princess but you always get caught in these relationships with j°°ks" 

I can't say that she's wrong!


----------



## turnera

There's a great book called Getting The Love You Want, just amazing. It talks about what you 'missed out' on in childhood, how you felt hurt or things that you felt your parents or siblings did to shape you into a dysfunctional person (who always picks abusers, in your case). How, when you grow up, you subconsciously look for a partner who has the same traits as that parent or sibling, because you want this NEW person to FIX whatever the old one did to you.

Say your mom always threatened to kick you out if you didn't get good grades. You felt only conditional love (perform or I won't love you); so you pick someone who seems like he may withhold love, but SAYS he loves you, thinking, well, HE won't withhold love cos he says he loves me. HE will make me whole again, make me safe. 

Of course, he won't. And then you suffer. Just a great book.


----------



## turnera

My brother kept picking the needy, neurotic girls, cos he wanted to be their savior, cos he felt no self worth because of our dad. He wanted SOMEone to value him. But the women were all needy, neurotic people; they were too messed up to value him. Over and over, the same woman in different packaging.

Until he met his wife, when he was about 35, at church. She was COMPLETELY different from all those crazy girls - self confident, didn't take his crap, just wonderful. She literally saved him. Because he took the leap of faith to NOT pick the same kind of girl this time.


----------



## bailingout

Troubledlinda said:


> Eyes are slowly opening while heart is slowly closing...


You are going to be ok Linda. We are all going to be ok. 

And someday our hearts will reopen to someone that deserves to be in there.  In the meantime, let your heart be open to loving yourself and your son.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I think after this, I need to be alone and take care of myself and my son... As much as I love the company, friendship and love of a man, I really don't feel like having one around for now...


I think that is a healthy response to your situation.


----------



## Advocado

If you leave, just know that even if he appears to weather it well, inside he will be broken and questioning himself as to why he pushed you away. 

He won't be able to answer his question and he won't show that he is hurting or even questioning himself.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> I think that is a healthy response to your situation.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> If you leave, just know that even if he appears to weather it well, inside he will be broken and questioning himself as to why he pushed you away.
> 
> He won't be able to answer his question and he won't show that he is hurting or even questioning himself.


That's too bad for him. I gave him more than enough chances to talk and work it out and compromise... I fought fot this marriage to work even when he was cruel to me... 

Now I am the one who can't stand him... I don't know if the feeling is temporary because I'm hurt and angry but it's how I feel right now anyways...


----------



## Troubledlinda

Until he met his wife said:


> Sweet!


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> There's a great book called Getting The Love You Want, just amazing. It talks about what you 'missed out' on in childhood, how you felt hurt or things that you felt your parents or siblings did to shape you into a dysfunctional person (who always picks abusers, in your case). How, when you grow up, you subconsciously look for a partner who has the same traits as that parent or sibling, because you want this NEW person to FIX whatever the old one did to you.
> 
> Say your mom always threatened to kick you out if you didn't get good grades. You felt only conditional love (perform or I won't love you); so you pick someone who seems like he may withhold love, but SAYS he loves you, thinking, well, HE won't withhold love cos he says he loves me. HE will make me whole again, make me safe.
> 
> Of course, he won't. And then you suffer. Just a great book.


I read something similar in the book "the emotionally abused woman" about finding your "original abuser" from your past and recognizing the pattern in always being attracted to similar people but I can't think of a moment in my life when I was abused... Maybe it was so subtle that I didn' recognize it... I'm not sure what I need to be looking for in the past... it's kind of complex!


----------



## Troubledlinda

Spent the afternoon sending out my resume  yeah! Hopefully something comes up soon... the sooner I get a job, the sooner this misery will end!!!


----------



## Troubledlinda

I wish I had a spare room, I'd move in there... 
Thinking of sleeping in my boy's room but not sure if that's a good idea/example for him... hmmm


----------



## COGypsy

If your son was 13 instead of 3, it might be more of an issue. As a toddler though, I doubt he'd even remember if you slept in his room for a month when he was so young.


----------



## bailingout

COGypsy said:


> If your son was 13 instead of 3, it might be more of an issue. As a toddler though, I doubt he'd even remember if you slept in his room for a month when he was so young.


I agree but there is one thing I don't like about the idea. If she leaves the room, he may perceive it as he is winning or that the ST punishment is getting to her. I understand we don't care what he thinks but....we keep telling her to ignore him, avoiding him like that after so long is not ignoring him. I used to do it then I thought, why do I have to give up my bed because he's an arse. I'm not. Plus my D is a little older so that played a part.

Just something to consider. I don't know which is the right way.


----------



## Troubledlinda

bailingout said:


> I agree but there is one thing I don't like about the idea. If she leaves the room, he may perceive it as he is winning or that the ST punishment is getting to her. I understand we don't care what he thinks but....we keep telling her to ignore him, avoiding him like that after so long is not ignoring him. I used to do it then I thought, why do I have to give up my bed because he's an arse. I'm not. Plus my D is a little older so that played a part.
> 
> Just something to consider. I don't know which is the right way.


Yes, that's what i was thinking too... what message would that send? why should I leave the bed? I feel like he should leave it since he clearly doesn't want to be close to me, why sleep in the same bed? He's on the edge almost holding on to the sheets so not to fall off... it doesn't stop me from sleeping but I just find it bizarre, it feels like I'm sleeping with a stranger in my bed.... don't know if it makes sense?!


----------



## turnera

meh, just ignore him. And I mean, IGNORE HIM. He is invisible from now on. When you plan dinner, you set out two plates. When you go to the store, you say 'come on son, let's go' and leave. When you wash clothes, anything of his gets left right where he dropped it. His dishes? Nada. His bills? Forget it. 

Start living like a single parent. It will be empowering.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> meh, just ignore him. And I mean, IGNORE HIM. He is invisible from now on. When you plan dinner, you set out two plates. When you go to the store, you say 'come on son, let's go' and leave. When you wash clothes, anything of his gets left right where he dropped it. His dishes? Nada. His bills? Forget it.
> 
> Start living like a single parent. It will be empowering.


:smthumbup:


----------



## bailingout

turnera said:


> meh, just ignore him. And I mean, IGNORE HIM. He is invisible from now on. When you plan dinner, you set out two plates. When you go to the store, you say 'come on son, let's go' and leave. When you wash clothes, anything of his gets left right where he dropped it. His dishes? Nada. His bills? Forget it.
> 
> Start living like a single parent. It will be empowering.


:iagree: and it is empowering. I haven't gone that far yet but what I have done is definitely empowering.


----------



## Troubledlinda

bailingout said:


> :iagree: and it is empowering. I haven't gone that far yet but what I have done is definitely empowering.


Does your H notice? say anything? empowering in what sense?


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> meh, just ignore him. And I mean, IGNORE HIM. He is invisible from now on. When you plan dinner, you set out two plates. When you go to the store, you say 'come on son, let's go' and leave. When you wash clothes, anything of his gets left right where he dropped it. His dishes? Nada. His bills? Forget it.
> 
> Start living like a single parent. It will be empowering.


I do feel like a single parent, he's never home... we never eat dinner together... he's always home around 7h30 - 8h00PM on good days and on bad days there is no time he comes as late as 10:00Pm if he wants... 

On weekends, he'll eat after I leave the table... except the day son told him to sit and eat because it was time to eat... if he needed something on my side of the table, he got up and walked to get whatever istead of just asking me to pass it to him... how pathetic? Even a child doesn't do that!


----------



## turnera

It's empowering because just LOOK at how much emotional energy you have invested in him, what he thinks, what he wants, does he love you, what can you do, how can you change him, how can you be happy, yada yada yada - and THAT is just on HERE.

You're living your whole life around table scraps from this abusive *******. When you SHOULD be living a life full of joy with your son, focusing on helping HIM enjoy life and learn the wonders of the world, and not on how unworthy or messed up you are.

Empowering? By PROVING to yourself that YOU MATTER, you are AWESOME enough to be angry at him and to dish out what he serves right back at him, by subconsciously TELLING YOURSELF that you are done being his whipping boy.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> It's empowering because just LOOK at how much emotional energy you have invested in him, what he thinks, what he wants, does he love you, what can you do, how can you change him, how can you be happy, yada yada yada - and THAT is just on HERE.
> 
> You're living your whole life around table scraps from this abusive *******. When you SHOULD be living a life full of joy with your son, focusing on helping HIM enjoy life and learn the wonders of the world, and not on how unworthy or messed up you are.
> 
> Empowering? By PROVING to yourself that YOU MATTER, you are AWESOME enough to be angry at him and to dish out what he serves right back at him, by subconsciously TELLING YOURSELF that you are done being his whipping boy.


I get it :smthumbup:


----------



## Wise Fairy

Hi TL, 

Yes it is draining, tiring sucking the very life right out of you which is what they do.

I am out now and yes it is painful but each day that goes by gets better, just work on you because if you don't you will truly forget who you are.

Get all important papers together or anything that you want of yours and get them to your parents or somewhere they are safe. 

Consult an attorney to find out your rights with regards to your son. 

He has held the purse strings, it's his house you have been at his mercy he knows it too. 

Remember you are still very young!!! we have all been where you have stepped. We start to lose the ability to love ourselves, and to even feel.

I am sorry but you did make me laugh the image of your H holding onto the sheets and pillow on his head :rofl: 

It's like these men are clones of real men, they were taken and replaced by this N behavior and plopped down in front of us we know they are different we know it's not right wtf... sounds like a terrible nightmare. How strange perhaps we can make a movie out of this lol! 

Linda you will be fine, you know what's right and wrong, find your courage and your strength and do what is best for you and your son. 

But be safe whatever you do and decide. 

Peace


----------



## Troubledlinda

He slept on the couch, for no real reason (since he's'been sleeping in bed all these nights).... Hmmmm is he reading my posts? Or just my mind???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Advocado

Wise Fairy said:


> Hi TL, ...
> 
> Linda you will be fine, you know what's right and wrong, find your courage and your strength and do what is best for you and your son.
> 
> But be safe whatever you do and decide.
> 
> Peace


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> He slept on the couch, for no real reason (since he's'been sleeping in bed all these nights).... Hmmmm is he reading my posts? Or just my mind???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*bangs head on desk*

linda, WHO CARES?! It is just more continuation of the crazy-making you've been living with.

STOP WASTING YOUR ENERGY on what he does or doesn't do.

Tell us what YOU are doing.


----------



## bailingout

Troubledlinda said:


> Does your H notice? say anything? empowering in what sense?


Yes he notices but No he doesn't say anything. For him to say something would mean that he is acknowledging the changes, if he acknowledges the changes then he's basically accepting that there are issues. He chooses to remain in denial, he was taught that if you don't acknowledge something, it doesn't exist. However I know that is not true.

As for empowering, as in I don't allow myself to react in an unhealthy manner to his craziness and I also do not suppress my own feelings to cope. It's empowering because I am in control of me, not him. 

The more I can control how I react and deal with my feelings, the less control he has over me. The less control he has over me, the more empowered I feel.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> *bangs head on desk*
> 
> linda, WHO CARES?! It is just more continuation of the crazy-making you've been living with.
> 
> STOP WASTING YOUR ENERGY on what he does or doesn't do.
> 
> Tell us what YOU are doing.


Oooh it didnt't bother me or hurt me... I don't really care that he slept there... Writing it down on here is like keeping a journal! It gives me more and more reasons to not want to be with him... On the days when I feel down, I read my posts and see that this is all messed up and no need to be fighting for this guy... 

Me? I'm good, sticking to my plan: job, health, fitness, son, fun, positive!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> He slept on the couch, for no real reason (since he's'been sleeping in bed all these nights).... Hmmmm is he reading my posts? Or just my mind???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Like with everything else, he does it to get your reaction. He wants you to either beg or become upset, so he can twist it around to it being you who has the problem.......you who creates the problem. You have been too quiet. Not groveling enough. Not angry enough. He needs a fix and you are too easy. Ignore him. He is an attention wh0re. It is obvious and unattractive.


----------



## turnera

One time, back when I didn't know any better, I had dropped DH off at our church, about 5 miles from home. He called me to come get him and I finished a load of laundry before I came. He got mad at me taking so long so he started walking home. On the side of the road that I would drive by, so I could see him walking home. So I would stop and have to apologize and BEG him to get in the car, which I unfortunately did. Never again. Now? 'Ok, you wanna walk. See you at home.'


----------



## SaltInWound

turnera said:


> One time, back when I didn't know any better, I had dropped DH off at our church, about 5 miles from home. He called me to come get him and I finished a load of laundry before I came. He got mad at me taking so long so he started walking home. On the side of the road that I would drive by, so I could see him walking home. So I would stop and have to apologize and BEG him to get in the car, which I unfortunately did. Never again. Now? 'Ok, you wanna walk. See you at home.'


Cold calculation at its finest.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Today, I 'm feeling at peace! It's weird, but I have no worries... I just don't care! He is where he is, doing what he's doing, I am where I am doing what I'm doing... I just don't care! I guess sunday's argument just did it for me... I still can't believe that he can be this rude, this mean, this cruel and this childish! If for small matters that we don't agree on I get the ST this treatment for 3 months, what will it be the day we have a big decision to make that we can't agree on, or the day I really do mess up big time? I just can't do it anymore... Just can't do it! Sorry dude but no more for me...


----------



## Troubledlinda

I feel like I can't wait to get on with my life and feel this peaceful again on a regular basis!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Linda has SEEN THE LIGHT!! :smthumbup:


----------



## Troubledlinda

3Xnocharm said:


> Linda has SEEN THE LIGHT!! :smthumbup:


----------



## Ellie5

Hey Linda

Just read the last few posts - great to hear you're getting your spunkiness back 

When he sleeps on the couch use it as an opportunity to enjoy more space in the bed to yourself!

Sounds like his behaviour is beginning to wash over you like water off a duck's back, keep it up


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Hey Linda
> 
> Just read the last few posts - great to hear you're getting your spunkiness back
> 
> When he sleeps on the couch use it as an opportunity to enjoy more space in the bed to yourself!
> 
> Sounds like his behaviour is beginning to wash over you like water off a duck's back, keep it up


Hey Ellie5 

Yeah, having better days... My parents have been really really great and supportive! 

I know the hard part is still ahead but I am building on all the strength I need for when I get to that point. 

I don't care if he doesn't sleep in our bed... as you say: more space for me. That's really so dump anyways... I've come a long way, I remember in the beginning of our marriage, I would beg and cry and plead with him to please come sleep in the bed and he wouldn't even look at me or say a word, so I'd sleep on the sofa next to his just so we would be together... 

All those episodes of ST when we just got married, when I was pregnant (one night he came home from work and I was really feeling sick (I must have been in my 4th month) so I was sitting with my head in my hands, looking sad, when he came in so he gave me the ST because he didn't like the way I didn't smile and greet him properly... All the times when he insulted me and gave me the ST because I asked why he always turned his (personal) cell phone when he got home and why when someone called he never picked up his cell (when I was around) (of course he doesn't remember all the times he's called me names)

Making me quit my job, telling me I was different from all my other female friends who could manage work and family life, always sending mixed messages, wanting one thing and its opposite.... ppfffff 

Telling me he could love me less or love me more depending on me and my behavior (when I asked him he loved me, since he hasn't said it in 3 years) 

Asking me why I wanted a second child when I can't even take care of one: "we don't make babies to make babies"

Said he could treat me like a princess, be romantic and compliment me but he prefers not to so I don't get a big head. 

Sorry, just venting... I'm not gonna let this bring me down but I have to get it out of me! 

This is by far the worst relationship/man I've ever experienced in my life! I don't wish it on my worst enemy.


----------



## Ellie5

Oh Linda, this man has serious problems.

I'm so sorry you've endured this hell for so long (whilst pregnant to boot - that must have felt very lonely), so do vent away as it does help I'm sure.

I actually think it's good you do vent, as you're clarifying and processing. No need to be apologetic about that either. Get it all out. You'll go through a whole gammot of emotions like a rollercoaster over the coming weeks and months - most importantly now though you're seeing clearly and acknowledging your own self worth - so be kind and compassionate to yourself. No one deserves treatment like this and now you're doing something about it.

Hold on to as many things in your heart you can be grateful for, your son, your mum and dad, your health, your friends. Find something every day to be thankful for - your mind can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Focus on positives. You'll be a stronger person for this experience ultimately and there are people in your life who love you. That's a treasure. This man does not have the power to control who are and what you feel - now or tomorrow. 

You should be proud of yourself for finding your inner strength, and it will be a lucky man who maybe one day gets to share what it means to be in a loving relationship with you (even if that doesn't happen for a while, no relationship should ever define you). We can choose to be bitter, angry, or victims, or we can choose to be happy. It's hugely empowering to realize that's a choice. :smthumbup:


----------



## Advocado

Linda - 

Reading your recent posts, I'm welling up and smiling for you and know that you will stay strong and positive.

It's just SOOOOOOO GOOD to know you are on the path of taking back ownership of your emotional state. 


:toast:


----------



## northernlights

Linda, I also think it's good for you to vent. When you've been manipulated and lied to and emotionally abused for so long, sometimes you just need sane people to hear you out and validate you. It's like you get so lost in the world of crazy that you need sane people to re-teach you which way is up.

And then you might need to grieve what you went through. When I finally realized how badly I'd been treated, I was sad. It took a while, and it was hard, but I'm getting through that too. So please don't forget there's a light at the end of that tunnel! And there are always the really great, light, and free days in between the bad moments, so enjoy those!

You're doing a great job!!


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Making me quit my job [isolation], telling me I was different from all my other female friends who could manage work and family life[blames you], always sending mixed messages[split personalities], wanting one thing and its opposite.... ppfffff
> 
> Telling me he could love me less or love me more depending on me and my behavior[blames others]. Asking me why I wanted a second child when I can't even take care of one: "we don't make babies to make babies." Said he could treat me like a princess, be romantic and compliment me but he prefers not to so I don't get a big head.


You read Why Does He Do That?, right? Pop quiz: What are the top 5-10 things an abuser does?
Quick involvement
Isolation
Blames others
Unrealistic expectations
Hypersensitivity
Dual personality
Rigid roles for men and women
Verbal abuse

Abuser tricks and warning signs of domestic abuse. - New Hope for Women


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I don't care if he doesn't sleep in our bed... as you say: more space for me.
> 
> This is where you laugh at him for choosing an uncomfortable couch over a comfy bed. A perfect example of the pa punishing himself in an attempt to punish the other person.
> 
> That's really so dump anyways... I've come a long way, I remember in the beginning of our marriage, I would beg and cry and plead with him to please come sleep in the bed and he wouldn't even look at me or say a word, so I'd sleep on the sofa next to his just so we would be together...
> 
> He thinks if you did it in the past, you will do it now. You can almost see the desperation. As if he is frantically searching through the archives of his mind to see what has worked in the past.
> 
> Telling me he could love me less or love me more depending on me and my behavior (when I asked him he loved me, since he hasn't said it in 3 years)
> 
> Nothing like walking on eggshells. Actually, you can take his quote and throw it back at him, because it applies.
> 
> Asking me why I wanted a second child when I can't even take care of one: "we don't make babies to make babies"
> 
> You already had a second child.
> 
> Said he could treat me like a princess, be romantic and compliment me but he prefers not to so I don't get a big head.
> 
> This is interesting, because pa people are quick to lay blame to justify their behavior. Here, something different has happened. He is telling you (in an indirect way) that you have done nothing wrong. In fact, you deserve to be treated well, as he has given examples of how you should be treated. He refuses, not because you don't deserve it, but because it will be a problem for him if he does. Big head=self esteem=danger. He needs you to feel like [email protected], so you stay compliant. Amazing how he subtly admits wrong doing (something they don't usually do) and disguises it as protecting you.
> 
> Sorry, just venting... I'm not gonna let this bring me down but I have to get it out of me!
> 
> Better here than at home where it can be used against you.


----------



## Advocado

northernlights said:


> ...
> 
> *And then you might need to grieve what you went through. *When I finally realized how badly I'd been treated, I was sad. It took a while, and it was hard, but I'm getting through that too. So please don't forget there's a light at the end of that tunnel! And there are always the really great, light, and free days in between the bad moments, so enjoy those!
> 
> You're doing a great job!!


:iagree:

Bold above - This is a very important point to note. Thank you for highlighting it Northernlights. A crucial part of the process of moving forward, as you can't help but think about what things _should _have been like, as compared to how it actually was.


----------



## SaltInWound

Advocado said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Bold above - This is a very important point to note. Thank you for highlighting it Northernlights. A crucial part of the process of moving forward, as you can't help but think about what things _should _have been like, as compared to how it actually was.



I agree. Observing others in a healthy relationship has been especially difficult for me. I can't deny how bad it actually was.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Working on my exit plan! Need to get out of here!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Troubledlinda

Hello people


----------



## Advocado

Hi Linda

Hope your weekend is going well.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Feeling terribly lonely today... things have never been this bad... What a horrible way to live. I look like I've added 5 years to my face 
My so ndoesn't listen to me and throws more and more tantrums... Feel like I'm breaking down.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> Feeling terribly lonely today... things have never been this bad... What a horrible way to live. I look like I've added 5 years to my face
> My so ndoesn't listen to me and throws more and more tantrums... Feel like I'm breaking down.


Hang in there! Try and remember nothing is forever. This bad drama will end one way or the other.


----------



## turnera

linda, he's just a kid having a bad day. He'll settle down, and you will too.


----------



## Wise Fairy

Hi TL 
Feeling terribly lonely today... things have never been this bad... What a horrible way to live. I look like I've added 5 years to my face 
My so ndoesn't listen to me and throws more and more tantrums... Feel like I'm breaking down

Hang in there I am sorry you are feeling lonely but it's been that way for a long time hon. 

You H is not going to change for nobody not the past woman or any other it's just the way he is. He won't do counseling so what can you do nothing. 

Think about your life if you stay just look at 5 years ahead do you think anything will change no it will be the same and probably worse much worse. 

Right now you may feel tired the energy drained from you then in 5 years you will look 10 years older. 

You H is not making you feel vibrant and the young woman that you are.

With regards to your son please have patience with him, your just reflecting the lack of love from your H.

Take some deep breaths lean back. 

Your son has a reason to act out from what he has seen and it's also his age he has a reason, your H does not. 

Remember you have your family to support you, I had no one when I split no support so that's a big plus. 

Work on some codependency issues you have the books read get educated so you can get better and get out of this mess, if that's what you want. 

Peace TL


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Tomorrow is another day!
> 
> I have a lovely little green smiling Buddha on my laptop screensaver - "All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become". Buddha.
> 
> Keep reminding yourself how great you are and how loving a human being you are


Thank you


----------



## Troubledlinda

Wise Fairy said:


> Hi TL
> Feeling terribly lonely today... things have never been this bad... What a horrible way to live. I look like I've added 5 years to my face
> My so ndoesn't listen to me and throws more and more tantrums... Feel like I'm breaking down
> 
> Hang in there I am sorry you are feeling lonely but it's been that way for a long time hon.
> 
> You H is not going to change for nobody not the past woman or any other it's just the way he is. He won't do counseling so what can you do nothing.
> 
> Think about your life if you stay just look at 5 years ahead do you think anything will change no it will be the same and probably worse much worse.
> 
> Right now you may feel tired the energy drained from you then in 5 years you will look 10 years older.
> 
> You H is not making you feel vibrant and the young woman that you are.
> 
> With regards to your son please have patience with him, your just reflecting the lack of love from your H.
> 
> Take some deep breaths lean back.
> 
> Your son has a reason to act out from what he has seen and it's also his age he has a reason, your H does not.
> 
> Remember you have your family to support you, I had no one when I split no support so that's a big plus.
> 
> Work on some codependency issues you have the books read get educated so you can get better and get out of this mess, if that's what you want.
> 
> Peace TL


Thank you! 

You're right, he's not going to change. he seems quite happy this way... He doesn't need me for anything anyways. 

Everyday that goes by, puts us deeper and deeper in the hole. Son asks me every morning: "where's my daddy" when he comes to our room... not sure if I should tell him that daddy is on the sofa :scratchhead: so I make something up every morning and try to change the subject! 

Gathering enough strength to get out of here ...


----------



## turnera

Don't lie for your husband. Tell son the truth and let his son ask him why he's doing it.


----------



## SaltInWound

turnera said:


> Don't lie for your husband. Tell son the truth and let his son ask him why he's doing it.


:iagree: My biggest mistake was making excuses for stbxh's behavior, distracting, etc. What it taught son was that his dad had done nothing wrong. Believe me when I say your husband will do absolutely NOTHING to change your son's opinion of you to be more positive than it is. If he is anything like my stbxh, he will use every opportunity he can to point out your faults. In my son's case, the attempt I made to shield him, caused him to have a skewed view of how a mentally healthy dad and husband behaves.


----------



## Wise Fairy

Hi TL 

How are you can you give us an update?


----------



## Troubledlinda

Wise Fairy said:


> Hi TL
> 
> How are you can you give us an update?


Hello WF and everyone, 

There is not really anything new on this side. The situation is the same, still on ST, still sleeping on the couch... I stopped lying to son when he asks where is daddy when he comes in our room in the morning... so this AM he went to the living room and asked: "daddy why are you sleeping here?" but I didn't hear his answer... 

I'm feeling okish I guess... My worse times are the weekends when he's home and we have to "share the space" so I try to be out as much as possible but when I get home and find him here, it gets to me and thats when the loneliness and sadness kick in...

My decision is made, I no longer want to be in this and I will walk away with my head held high... 

Thank for asking


----------



## Troubledlinda

Ellie5 said:


> Linda I'm so sorry you're feeling low - it's good you're getting out as much as possible though and I'm glad you've stopped lying to your son.
> 
> Have you looked into the legalities of anything and armed yourself with information?
> 
> Sending you hugs


Hello 

I have up and down moments... I feel a bit of a relief now that I've made up my mind that I no longer want to live this way... Now I just have to overcome my fears and actually pack up and get out. 

I can stay with my folks for as long as I want until I fall back on my feet so thats a big help even though I feel kind of blaaaah about moving back with mom and dad with a child at age 36... I feel like I'm going back to square one! 

Son goes to living room every morning around 6:00AM to look for dad and takes him by the hand to bring him to the bedroom and "put him in bed".... poor little boy... you'd think after a day of doing that, his "mature" dad would get the hint but naaaaah!


----------



## turnera

He's getting off on it. See, YOU are the problem, even son knows it.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> He's getting off on it. See, YOU are the problem, even son knows it.


What do you mean? "He's getting off on it"?


----------



## turnera

Having his son come in there, treat him special, is feeding his ego.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> Hello
> 
> I have up and down moments... I feel a bit of a relief now that I've made up my mind that I no longer want to live this way... Now I just have to overcome my fears and actually pack up and get out.
> 
> I can stay with my folks for as long as I want until I fall back on my feet so thats a big help even though I feel kind of blaaaah about moving back with mom and dad with a child at age 36... I feel like I'm going back to square one!
> 
> Son goes to living room every morning around 6:00AM to look for dad and takes him by the hand to bring him to the bedroom and "put him in bed".... poor little boy... you'd think after a day of doing that, his "mature" dad would get the hint but naaaaah!


Linda...NO FEAR! It will only make your life better to get out! And that is SO GREAT that you can stay with your folks! Seize that opportunity! You can get your bearings, save some money, and do some healing, there is nothing like having family around you when you're in crisis. :smthumbup:


----------



## Advocado

Ellie5 said:


> ...
> 
> Having the support of people who love you is hugely important in order for you to heal and move on - especially given you have your son to care for too.
> 
> ...
> 
> Stay strong, chin up and ride out the emotions. We are all here when you need to vent, cry, laugh or scream


:iagree: and knowing when to reach out for and accept help is an important lifeskill. Don't ever let anyone make you feel bad for doing what's right for you and your child.


----------



## Blondilocks

The sooner you move in with your parents and get some love, the sooner you will build a real life. 

Start packing those bags and keep thinking "Feet don't fail me now!".

You're going to make it. Good luck!


----------



## SaltInWound

Linda, I am several years older than you and my ability to choose was stripped from me. Although I lost everything, and was forced to live with my parents, I am far happier than I was in my own home, surrounded by my belongings (which I miss terribly and ache for). I don't hear verbal insults or receive silent treatments. I don't walk on eggshells or pray for some shred of affection. I gain more fulfillment from the man who holds the door open at the grocery store, or the salesman who smiles and chats with me than I ever did from a husband who treated me like crap on the bottom of his shoe. I know I have value other than being a nanny or maid. I know I will find a man who will appreciate me and treat me the way I deserve. I did not feel that when I lived with my stbxh. I guess what I am trying to tell you is once you take the leap of faith, things will get better. You just need to believe there will be ground under your feet when you step off what appears to be a cliff. The ground really is there even though you can't see it right now.

I am into the 4th month of 100% silent treatment (not a word of communication) from stbxh after last attempt to get my things and he again refusing me. He sent me an e-mail today that says......."SaltInWound, did your antivirus expire?" 

All I can think of is........:loser: He is like a case of herpes. His presence is unwelcome, because all he does when he shows up is cause pain.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I've started packing! after informing him that I'm leaving! He didn't say a word and didn't even look at me while I was talking. Then asked: "what do you want me to say?" "what new info are you giving me"? 

There is no turning back now... in a few days (while he's on another business trip, which i found out from a friend of ours) I'll be out of here!


----------



## Ellie5

Linda, well done for making your decision, in your time, to suit you.

You're a lovely, kind, thoughtful lady who's about to start a new chapter in her life - try to embrace the uncertainty if you ever fear it - you're going to be great. 

Keep us updated. Keeping fingers and toes crossed for you that everything positive and good awaits you.

"For as long as I know how to love I know I'll stay alive" - keep your heart open and know that people are there for you.

It's YOUR rules. YOUR life. YOUR choices.

Lots of hugs  x x x


----------



## Advocado

Linda - you're on a new road now. Don't be afraid of the challenges ahead. Know that it won't be all plain sailing but also *know *that you are up to the challenge. 

Along with many many others I'm sure, I wish you all you wish yourself.


----------



## LongWalk

Troubledlinda said:


> I've started packing! after informing him that I'm leaving! He didn't say a word and didn't even look at me while I was talking. Then asked: *"what do you want me to say?" "what new info are you giving me"?*
> 
> There is no turning back now... in a few days (while he's on another business trip, which i found out from a friend of ours) I'll be out of here!


I have only skipped through your thread. Torment. 

"what do you want me to say?"

Interpreted: I don't want you to go but I am unable change anything, but if there is a meaningless word or two that can influence you, tell what they are so I figure out whether saying them would disturb my mentally ill mind.

"what new info are you giving me"?

Interpreted: I am waiting for you to admit you are wrong. Come back to me when you can explain why I am angry with you.

Your husband sounds so dysfunctional, i cannot grasp how he can hold a job. What does he do that requires zero communicaion and empathy?

Once you divorce will you have enough money to buy your own place? Even a condo?


----------



## Troubledlinda

LongWalk said:


> I have only skipped through your thread. Torment.
> 
> "what do you want me to say?"
> 
> Interpreted: I don't want you to go but I am unable change anything, but if there is a meaningless word or two that can influence you, tell what they are so I figure out whether saying them would disturb my mentally ill mind.
> 
> "what new info are you giving me"?
> 
> Interpreted: I am waiting for you to admit you are wrong. Come back to me when you can explain why I am angry with you.
> 
> Your husband sounds so dysfunctional, i cannot grasp how he can hold a job. What does he do that requires zero communicaion and empathy?
> 
> Once you divorce will you have enough money to buy your own place? Even a condo?


Everytime I think of this (which is pretty much all the time ) I just shake my head in disbelief! I really find this whole situation strange, absurd, crazy... I mean he's living his life like everything is peachy! I'm the only one with a problem around here... I think I will write a book on this one day! 

I wont be able to buy my own place right away as I am still looking for a job... but I will be staying with my folks for a while.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Some days I feel like I've gone crazy... I sit there for hours going over every details of the past 3 months and wandering if maybe I really did do something wrong, maybe I really am a the problem, maybe if I had been more kind and caring and tender and gentle... maybe I am the one giving the ST.... now I understand how sane people can become crazy because of these situations.... I wish I could get inside his head to see what's brewing in there, just for a few minutes!


----------



## Troubledlinda

If you don't want to be with someone anymore, why not just say it? Why not be a grown up about it and just say: "look, things arent working out for us, it would be better for us to split"... why go around telling everyone (who's tried to help us figure out this situation) that we just had a little misunderstanding but things are better now... Why lie to those trying to help us?


----------



## LongWalk

What does he do for a living?


----------



## turnera

Why not? Because he has mental issues. Nuf said.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I wish I could get inside his head to see what's brewing in there, just for a few minutes!


Are you sure about that? Sometimes what you discover can be more damaging than the insanity caused by not knowing.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> If you don't want to be with someone anymore, why not just say it? Why not be a grown up about it and just say: "look, things arent working out for us, it would be better for us to split"... why go around telling everyone (who's tried to help us figure out this situation) that we just had a little misunderstanding but things are better now... Why lie to those trying to help us?


If he told you the truth, then you would leave for sure. That would be bad for him, because he needs someone around to abuse, and you are a sure thing, because you have been around a while and have put up with it. He isn't going to give you that speech until he feels confident that he has someone else in his grip, willing to take his abuse.

Why lie to people trying to help? Because he doesn't want their help. Their suggestions are meant to make things better for YOU, not him. He knows this and must prevent it, so he tells people there was a bump in the road, but better now, so they will back off. It is called damage control.


----------



## Troubledlinda

LongWalk said:


> I have only skipped through your thread. Torment.
> "what new info are you giving me"?
> 
> Interpreted: I am waiting for you to admit you are wrong. Come back to me when you can explain why I am angry with you.


Interesting interpretation. What I understood from his question was: 
"You've already "informed me" before that you were leaving and you're still here so what new info are you giving me?"


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Are you sure about that? Sometimes what you discover can be more damaging than the insanity caused by not knowing.


Yeah, maybe you're right!


----------



## Troubledlinda

MissFroggie said:


> If you sometimes feel like you are the crazy one seeing inside his head would certainly prove you wrong...but his crazy is so messed up just glimpsing what is in his head would probably make you go mad lol.
> 
> You are doing so well honey and I hope your move to your parents goes smoothly. You are going to have a whole lot of mixed up thoughts and emotions for a while so feel free to vent and chew things over here. You are going to get out the other side of this and be so much happier than ever before and have self-pride for your strength and resilience for coming so far and doing so well without him. Getting out is really tough and it is so difficult working things out while you are in the situation too - it has only been since getting out of my relationship that I have had the mind-space to really think about it all and work things out. I really do believe one of his controlling ways was being here all the time and constantly needing my attention - I think it was to stop me having any time to actually think about the relationship and consider what was happening. Things will make sense to you so much quicker once you are out. Well done honey, keep us posted xx


I just want all this to be behind me... everytime I want to pack, I just feel so overwhelmed and don't know where to start... This is my last week here... it is a whole lot of different emotions.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> If he told you the truth, then you would leave for sure. That would be bad for him, because he needs someone around to abuse, and you are a sure thing, because you have been around a while and have put up with it. He isn't going to give you that speech until he feels confident that he has someone else in his grip, willing to take his abuse.
> 
> Why lie to people trying to help? Because he doesn't want their help. Their suggestions are meant to make things better for YOU, not him. He knows this and must prevent it, so he tells people there was a bump in the road, but better now, so they will back off. It is called damage control.


This is so twisted, if he tells me the truth and I leave, he'll have nobody to abuse but he's doing every possible thing to make me leave so the end result will be the same: he'll have nobody to abuse! 

About the lies to people, you are so right!!! He says everything is ok because if he was asked what is going on, he wouldn't have much to say to justify his behavior as nothing I did deserves this treatment he's been dishing out! You are so right! I always felt that maybe he wasnt saying the truth because he didnt want people to stick their nose in our private life! hmmmm


----------



## Troubledlinda

Our 4th anniversary is coming up in a few days!


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Interesting interpretation. What I understood from his question was:
> "You've already "informed me" before that you were leaving and you're still here so what new info are you giving me?"


He is confident you are not going anywhere. He is telling you that you have already told him this wasn't working for you. You are still there. He is basically telling you that your information to him is nothing new. He is calling your bluff.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Yeah, maybe you're right!


You are still holding onto hope that isn't there. You can't help him. You can't fix him. Don't bother trying to understand. It will only cause you more pain. It is what he isn't saying and doing that will destroy you.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> This is so twisted, if he tells me the truth and I leave, he'll have nobody to abuse but he's doing every possible thing to make me leave so the end result will be the same: he'll have nobody to abuse!


It is twisted, because he is twisted. Read that book, "Why Does He Do That". Many times I got confused and had to keep referring back to a particular chapter that explained their different way of thinking, because it is so twisted and confusing to me. 

He doesn't think you will leave. And even if you do leave, he is confident you will come back. And if you go back, you will become a weaker person.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Our 4th anniversary is coming up in a few days!


In a few days it will be a one week anniversary of you beginning your new life.


----------



## MissFroggie

Troubledlinda said:


> I just want all this to be behind me... everytime I want to pack, I just feel so overwhelmed and don't know where to start... This is my last week here... it is a whole lot of different emotions.


I know how that feels honey, so much over-whelming you and it's hard to get started. Have you got some friends who could come over and help you? That's what I did. I felt so exhausted and emotionally drained I had done some packing but it all got too much for me. I actually couldn't think of who to ask so I put a shout out on fb and within an hour or so I had a group of friends there (with wine so it was fun and their husbands for the heavy stuff!). This is the time to be asking for help, don't feel like you have to do everything alone. xx



SaltInWound said:


> In a few days it will be a one week anniversary of you beginning your new life.


Exactly what I thought too  Yes it is coming up 4 years, but that is just closing the deal...you have so much more time ahead and so many good things to look forward to. This is your new start and before you know it, when you look back you will be thinking about the happy memories you are currently just about to start making. The good things you build now will be your happy times that give you strength and joy later  I know it is easier said than done and that you are hurting and confused and stressed right now, but do your best not to think of the past and let it drag you down, try to think about the future you are heading towards and all the good things coming your way xx


----------



## SaltInWound

Linda, don't wish him happy anniversary. Don't even mention the day. Even if he does, don't respond to it. If he really cared about the marriage, he would be working hard to ensure there were many more anniversaries.


----------



## turnera

Troubledlinda said:


> Our 4th anniversary is coming up in a few days!


Great time to celebrate getting free from an abusive relationship - from YOUR OWN PLACE.


----------



## Advocado

If he sees that you are packing and ready to go, he may just decide to try and "celebrate" the anniversary with you and do stuff intended to make you feel guilty or think/wonder if there is some way to salvage things and stay. 

He knows what you want out of a relationship, and he can give you a taster just to have you conflicted over deciding to leave. But remember, he can just as easily go back to his old ways, so don't be drawn in if this happens. 

Think to the future........


----------



## Advocado

Also do plan ahead how you will spend the day of your anniversary – aim to keep yourself busy and uplifted. If you are somewhat idle you will be more vulnerable to anything done or said to try and guilt you etc (my earlier post relates).


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> Interesting interpretation. What I understood from his question was:
> "You've already "informed me" before that you were leaving and you're still here so what new info are you giving me?"



Linda, 

I don't agree with the tone in this thread; I'm uncomfortable with the number of "divorce cheerleaders" who are saying: "you go, girl! Leave his ass". HOWEVER, I do agree that you have very little choice other than leaving at this point.

Moving out is one step toward solving this problem, and it's not necessarily a divorce step. I hold out slight hope that after you move out, and the reality sets in, he will finally see you are serious and will decide to actually change his appalling behavior. 

Unfortunately, there's also very good chance that he's been planning this for some time, and inwardly he's happy that you are finally moving out. When you try to talk to him about this, he's probably only thinking he doesn't want to talk about it, because he's finally getting what he wants!

Things could get better, but they might not. Be prepared in case he throws a fit or goes nuclear on you. Also be prepared for if he comes back begging to you on his hands and knees. It's the same advice we constantly get in the military: hope for the best, but prepare for the worst!

*One more thing: After you move out and your circumstances have fundamentally changed, please consider creating a new thread to continue your story.* This thread has become too long for newcomers to understand what's going on.


----------



## SaltInWound

Theseus said:


> Linda,
> 
> I don't agree with the tone in this thread; I'm uncomfortable with the number of "divorce cheerleaders" who are saying: "you go, girl! Leave his ass". HOWEVER, I do agree that you have very little choice other than leaving at this point.
> 
> Moving out is one step toward solving this problem, and it's not necessarily a divorce step. I hold out slight hope that after you move out, and the reality sets in, *he will finally see you are serious and will decide to actually change his appalling behavior*.


People like him don't change. They cycle. The only way to stop the cycle is to get away from them.....permanently. We are not just "divorce cheerleaders". We are people who have been victimized and did everything we could to make it work, some of us for more than 2 decades, so we can tell when a situation is not going to improve. You can read the books and web articles. There is no epiphany, other than he needing to search the manipulation file of his mind to figure out what will work best to make her more compliant. The only hope I hold for Linda is that she doesn't go back once she leaves.


----------



## turnera

Theseus said:


> Linda,
> 
> I don't agree with the tone in this thread; I'm uncomfortable with the number of "divorce cheerleaders" who are saying: "you go, girl! Leave his ass". HOWEVER, I do agree that you have very little choice other than leaving at this point.


No offense, Theseus, but coming from the victim side of the situation, I will NEVER support an abuse victim staying with the abuser. It.just.doesn't.work.

Should he suddenly see the light AFTER she leaves and he hits rock bottom and seeks help and goes to her begging for another chance...maybe there might be a chance. After MANY years of therapy for him.

So to call us 'divorce cheerleaders' is a bit disingenuous; perhaps the term 'supporter of saving linda before she loses her sanity or soul' would be more appropriate. Time for sorting the tea leaves later, once she is free of the mind games.


----------



## Theseus

turnera said:


> No offense, Theseus, but coming from the victim side of the situation, I will NEVER support an abuse victim staying with the abuser. It.just.doesn't.work.


I would never want an abuse victim to stay with an abuser either! The point is though, that divorce should be a reluctant necessity, not something to cheer over. It's just the tone of some of these comments I was objecting to, not the advice.


----------



## SaltInWound

Theseus said:


> I would never want an abuse victim to stay with an abuser either! The point is though, that divorce should be a reluctant necessity, not something to cheer over. It's just the tone of some of these comments I was objecting to, not the advice.


I think you misunderstand. We are cheering Linda on for making the decision and taking action to stand up for herself.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, it's cheering that she is CHANGING her situation.


----------



## Jellybeans

SaltInWound said:


> *People like him don't change. They cycle.*
> 
> *The only way to stop the cycle is to get away from them.....permanently.*
> 
> We are not just "divorce cheerleaders". We are people who have been victimized and did everything we could to make it work, some of us for more than 2 decades, so we can tell when a situation is not going to improve. You can read the books and web articles. * There is no epiphany,* other than he needing to search the manipulation file of his mind to figure out what will work best to make her more compliant. The only hope *I hold for Linda is that she doesn't go back once she leaves*




:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: x 1000

Would "like" this 10 more times if I could


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Linda,
> 
> I don't agree with the tone in this thread; I'm uncomfortable with the number of "divorce cheerleaders" who are saying: "you go, girl! Leave his ass". HOWEVER, I do agree that you have very little choice other than leaving at this point.
> 
> Moving out is one step toward solving this problem, and it's not necessarily a divorce step. I hold out slight hope that after you move out, and the reality sets in, he will finally see you are serious and will decide to actually change his appalling behavior.
> 
> Unfortunately, there's also very good chance that he's been planning this for some time, and inwardly he's happy that you are finally moving out. When you try to talk to him about this, he's probably only thinking he doesn't want to talk about it, because he's finally getting what he wants!
> 
> Things could get better, but they might not. Be prepared in case he throws a fit or goes nuclear on you. Also be prepared for if he comes back begging to you on his hands and knees. It's the same advice we constantly get in the military: hope for the best, but prepare for the worst!
> 
> *One more thing: After you move out and your circumstances have fundamentally changed, please consider creating a new thread to continue your story.* This thread has become too long for newcomers to understand what's going on.


I don't know if this separation will bring us to divorce or to get him to change, but I honestly think that he will not run after me begging me to come back... I feel in my heart that he will be relieved if I finally leave and give him his freedom back. I am starting to wonder if he ever loved me in the first place or if he just married me because he got pressured to get married as he was almost 40! 

I dont think he will change, if you're not attracted to someone, you don't magically become attracted to that person just because she left... To be able to change, one has to see his faults, but he believes he iw perfect so what is there for him to change? 

I told him I needed some time apart to think... I have to be careful and do this one step at a time. We are in africa and here women have very little say... He can be an A** and decide that he wants to keep son (i doubt it but he can if he wants to manipulate me). I know I dont want to live this way but I have to be very smart about the move!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ellie5

Troubledlinda said:


> I don't know if this separation will bring us to divorce or to get him to change, but I honestly think that he will not run after me begging me to come back... I feel in my heart that he will be relieved if I finally leave and give him his freedom back. I am starting to wonder if he ever loved me in the first place or if he just married me because he got pressured to get married as he was almost 40!
> 
> I dont think he will change, if you're not attracted to someone, you don't magically become attracted to that person just because she left... To be able to change, one has to see his faults, but he believes he iw perfect so what is there for him to change?
> 
> I told him I needed some time apart to think... I have to be careful and do this one step at a time. We are in africa and here women have very little say... He can be an A** and decide that he wants to keep son (i doubt it but he can if he wants to manipulate me). I know I dont want to live this way but I have to be very smart about the move!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Linda it sounds like you're being really smart and savvy here - a long way off your earlier posts filled with fear and anxiety. You'll do what's right for YOU, in your own time. Get those ducks in a row and move to the beat of your own drum.

As much as opinions differ in some camps, I think everyone contributing to this thread has your best interests at heart - we are rooting for you and want the best for you.

Stay strong and smart


----------



## Troubledlinda

Hello everyone. 

This is it! Tonight is my last night in my house... tomorrow I will be out of here! It feels very strange. Am not taking all of my suff, but for now, I'm taking the most important and will take the rest gradually (giving myself one month before I start coming back here to take things out) 

I informed H last friday that I needed a 3-4 weeks break to which he didn't really say anything other than: "what do you want me to say?" - "what new information are you giving me?"

He's out of town for work and gets back on saturday (I think) to an empty house...
The night before he left, son was really sick with a high fever and upset tummy so the next AM I took him to the dr. Since H has been gone (wedsnday AM, he never asked how son is doing! incredible!) 

Feels very very strange...


----------



## turnera

I am very very proud of you, linda. I know it is very hard, but you are taking steps to give you and your son a good life and hope for your son's future. Best of luck.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> This is it! Tonight is my last night in my house... tomorrow I will be out of here! It feels very strange. Am not taking all of my suff, but for now, I'm taking the most important and will take the rest gradually


Since you are in a foreign country, make certain you leave with copies of all your documents: passport (yours and son's), marriage license, son's birth certificate, bank information, etc. Things could get very bad if your husband locks them up or hides them from you.


----------



## Advocado

Linda - I believe you on the brink of a new positive beginning. The time has come and you WILL be fine.


----------



## SaltInWound

Linda, you mention that for now you plan for one month to be away. Do you have legal reassurance that by moving some of your things out and being gone from the house an entire month, your husband can't refuse to allow you access to the house when you are ready to return? 

Make sure you take what you can't live without. You never know with these types of people what they are capable of when they are pushed. Had I a crystal ball................


----------



## turnera

I have to agree, it worried me that you were waiting a month to go back. I only hope you have legal protection for this.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Since you are in a foreign country, make certain you leave with copies of all your documents: passport (yours and son's), marriage license, son's birth certificate, bank information, etc. Things could get very bad if your husband locks them up or hides them from you.


Yes, all important papers, jewellery and other small valuable belongings have been taken to my folks already.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Yes, all important papers, jewellery and other small valuable belongings have been taken to my folks already.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How about photos, family heirlooms, childhood mementos? Just thinking of things I wish I had the opportunity to retrieve.


----------



## Advocado

Hello Linda

How are you doing?


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> Hello Linda
> 
> How are you doing?


Hi.

I think i'm OK! I feel numb and a bit lost and confused to be honest. I left on Friday... He came back from his trip on Saturday to an empty house and has made zero contact with me or any of my family to find out where we might be. When I informed him that I was taking a break, I didn't say when or where I was going and he didn't ask either so shouldn't he be wandering where and how we are??? At least his son?

Incredible!


----------



## Caribbean Man

Troubledlinda said:


> Hi.
> 
> I think i'm OK! I feel numb and a bit lost and confused to be honest. I left on Friday... He came back from his trip on Saturday to an empty house and has made zero contact with me or any of my family to find out where we might be. When I informed him that I was taking a break, I didn't say when or where I was going and he didn't ask either so shouldn't he be wandering where and how we are??? At least his son?
> 
> Incredible!



With all due respect, I think you should try to worry a lot less about what's on his mind , and plan a way forward for your life.

He stuck in his ways and nothing's going to change him.

The motive for his abusive treatment is for you to worry about him. That way he controls your thoughts.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> Hi.
> 
> I think i'm OK! I feel numb and a bit lost and confused to be honest. I left on Friday... He came back from his trip on Saturday to an empty house and has made zero contact with me or any of my family to find out where we might be. When I informed him that I was taking a break, I didn't say when or where I was going and he didn't ask either so shouldn't he be wandering where and how we are??? At least his son?
> 
> Incredible!


Wow, he really is... something. What a jerk. Congrats to you Linda, I'm so proud of you, and you should be too! Keep moving forward, and dont worry about "why", you will make yourself nutty.


----------



## turnera

One day you'll look back and wonder why you ever put up with it.


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> Hi.
> 
> I think i'm OK! I feel numb and a bit lost and confused to be honest. I left on Friday... He came back from his trip on Saturday to an empty house and has made zero contact with me or any of my family to find out where we might be. When I informed him that I was taking a break, I didn't say when or where I was going and he didn't ask either so shouldn't he be wandering where and how we are??? At least his son?
> 
> Incredible!


Yes, at the very least, a father should be wondering where and how his son is.

I agree with the others that you should not invest time thinking about if/when he will enquire where you or his son are. So how about sending him an e-mail to let him know that you are both with your parents and then stop worrying about him not asking where you are and free yourself to get on with moving forward with the rest of your life. Also by letting him know where you are he can't throw it back in your face at some future point to say to you or others that you took off and didn't disclose where his son was. 

Granted, if he had said he was leaving for a month with your son you would have asked him where they were going, but still be the bigger person and let him know where his son is. I'm thinking along the lines of don't let anyone drag you down to their level - by not disclosing where you are you are somewhat playing his game. Your e-mail need say nothing more than that you are staying at your parents place. 

Also know that feeling numb and lost is only to be expected and know that you can get past such feelings and feel heaps better. Make plans.............


----------



## SaltInWound

Ellie5 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Linda, ANY time you spend wondering the ifs and whys you'll transport yourself mentally and emotionally back to that poor woman so bound up in his behaviour. You've made the literal, physical break from this man, over time the emotional break will become easier.
> 
> Well done for making this move. This is the healthiest result for your sanity. Get busy creating your new life. We are right behind you


:iagree::iagree: 

Linda, once you break free from your false sense of love, you will realize your time with your husband was far worse than you think it is now. You will feel at peace not walking on eggshells, wondering what kind of mood you should have, based on his. You will not question your feelings toward situations and comments from others the way you do with him. You will become stronger, because you will develop boundaries. You will understand what it feels to be free. Emotional abuse is such a soul killing experience.

Your parents will find out soon enough what kind of man you married....both as a husband and father. I hope your father and any other close male family members can provide a strong male influence for your son during your transition.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> Your parents will find out soon enough what kind of man you married....both as a husband and father. I hope your father and any other close male family members can provide a strong male influence for your son during your transition.


My parents are very very angry that he hasn't made any contact to find out how we are doing or even where we Are! Not even his Son!!! Not asking about me, fine.... whatever but his son? That's just Cruel! Son keeps asking to talk to him and to go home....


----------



## SaltInWound

Use what he is doing to your son to gather all your strength. I know it is where I get my strength. It really is vile behavior. Your poor sweet little boy. He doesn't deserve this. Fortunately, your son is at an age when he doesn't have concept of time, he is easily distracted, and doesn't understand the gravity of what is being done to him. All he knows is he hasn't seen his dad and wants to be home. It will pass. My stbxh was gone often for navy deployments. After a few weeks, my son stopped asking where his "dad" was. I filled his days with activities. I did not allow him to dwell. If something reminded him that "dad" was missing (like a picture of a man in a chldren's book), causing him to cry, I took him by the hand and found something else for us to do. 

Keep baking ingredients in the house. Find a good cookie or cupcake recipe. If your son becomes upset, take him in the kitchen and let him help you bake. Then, let him help you decorate. You can teach him to make homemade pizza or let him make your mom a dry macaroni necklace or have some board games like candy land or hi ho cherry o. Anything it takes to distract. ETA: My son came to me a few weeks ago and asked me to make cookies with him. Good therapy. We ate a few, but the rest were thrown out after becoming stale. The point of the project wasn't to have cookies to eat. 

I am happy to see your parent's reaction. They are not making excuses for your posh. They are your support system. Let them help you get through this. They will step up for your son. I think both of you will come out of this just fine


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> One day you'll look back and wonder why you ever put up with it.


Is it normal to have doubts about my decision to leave? I just feel so Lonely! I keep thinking that maybe if I tried harder or if I did something differently that maybe we could have worked it out?


----------



## turnera

Lonely is NOT a reason to stay with an abuser, linda. Use this feeling to gather strength. And anger. How DARE he put you in this position where you have to - after all this time of feeling horrible because of him - be the one to change the situation? He doesn't deserve you.

And you WILL find someone else. Hopefully not for a couple of years, after lots of therapy to figure out why you tolerated it all, so you don't just pick another abuser.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Lonely is NOT a reason to stay with an abuser, linda. Use this feeling to gather strength. And anger. How DARE he put you in this position where you have to - after all this time of feeling horrible because of him - be the one to change the situation? He doesn't deserve you.
> 
> And you WILL find someone else. Hopefully not for a couple of years, after lots of therapy to figure out why you tolerated it all, so you don't just pick another abuser.


You are Right! I guess I just wanted him to care and love me. I wish we could have a civil separation, I don't want to be his enemy, I want him to be part of his son's life...


----------



## SaltInWound

Last Long Lifelong said:


> This passive-aggresive silent treatment is behavior unbecoming of a man who wants to be the best man he can be.
> 
> Slip him a copy of David Deida's "The Way of the Superior Man".


If only it were that simple.


----------



## SaltInWound

How are you doing Linda?


----------



## Troubledlinda

Hi. I'm okay, although I have my moments. I still haven't heard anything from him on day 7 of my departure, which makes me sad, angry, hurt... I guess he just doesn't care. I feel like crying but the tears aren't coming....
still job hunting....
keeping son occupied...

This feels Unreal!


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> Hi. I'm okay, although I have my moments. I still haven't heard anything from him on day 7 of my departure, which makes me sad, angry, hurt... I guess he just doesn't care. I feel like crying but the tears aren't coming....
> still job hunting....
> keeping son occupied...
> 
> This feels Unreal!


I truly know how you feel. It is hard to believe a person can be so resentful and angry, so disconnected, and devalue others, including children, to this degree. Eventually it will hit you that this is your reality. It is only then that you can begin to heal.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I'm feeling so miserable today. Thought so much I had a headache. I've been doing good, I think but today I feel down. I miss him, I miss the good times we had together before this nightmare began...

I feel that I should have tried harder to save it.... I feel like calling him, like running back to him, even though he has made no attempt to contact me... total Silence! I feel so stupid.... He just doesn't care.....

I know I sound foolish but this hurts so much I just had to share....


----------



## Ellie5

Linda I'm so sorry you're having a bad day. 

You're going to be ok. Like grieving for someone who's died, you might go through all manner of emotions before you come out the end.......it's all temporary. Sounds like you're going through what I've heard of as a *bargaining* stage of grief ("if only I'd done this, or said that, or done something differently") - it's a desperate clutch at again, trying to *make sense* of it all. Or claw your way back to him. Let go of that grip and clinging, you're stronger than this.

I totally understand the headaches, your mind is doing ten to the dozen. 

Be aware of your thoughts.

Know that they are just thoughts (and I don't mean that to undermine what you've been through one iota). Yet it's the thoughts that keep you stuck, not your reality now. You can't change the fact that he is who he is. You are who you are.

I want to give you a big loving hug because you're hurting so much. However long it takes you to heal, it will happen, you will heal. 

Allow your tears to fall and allow them to dry too. You're grieving.

A week in is raw.

There is nothing wrong with remembering the good times. Keeping hold of positive times in your marriage will keep you in good stead if and when you meet someone new, in order you are not tainted by this experience.

Give yourself time.

It's ok to feel down. It's ok to snuggle up with a pot of Ben and Jerrys (or whatever  ) and mope and be sad. When you find yourself torturing yourself over what ifs and if onlys, label your thoughts "thinking" and get up and run for 10 minutes or do an activity that gives you some kind of physical release.

Each and every single day find something to be grateful for. However seemingly insignificant or small it seems at the time. Life is precious and sometimes we are fragile.

You don't sound foolish, stop beating yourself up. Tomorrow is another day. 

Sending you warmest wishes.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Tomorrow is our 4th Anniversary! Oh well.... I will be just Fine, yes I Will!!!


----------



## turnera

Linda, 4 years...will be nothing compared to the rest of your long life you will live happy.


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> I'm feeling so miserable today. Thought so much I had a headache. I've been doing good, I think but today I feel down. I miss him, I miss the good times we had together before this nightmare began...
> 
> I feel that I should have tried harder to save it.... I feel like calling him, like running back to him, even though he has made no attempt to contact me... total Silence! I feel so stupid.... He just doesn't care.....
> 
> I know I sound foolish but this hurts so much I just had to share....


Your overthinking things is understandable in the circumstances and it’s good you are sharing. 

I read somewhere that once you realise you are dwelling on something too much, catch yourself and give yourself a time limit/end time for dwelling on the subject and then go do something positive/maybe physical to completely distract yourself. 

Granted, later on you are likely to drift back to thinking about the issues that cause the overthinking but consciously giving yourself a break(s) can help you think more clearly and get things in perspective and not get to the point where you give yourself a headache. 

Also try to look forward/plan for the future when overthinking comes into play. The advice was to tell yourself to STOP thinking how/why things went wrong coz we can’t change the past and to look forward and plan how to move on and up.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Today is gone and tomorrow is another Day! 

I know I am going on about this, but it is just hard for me to accept and I feel a need to understand why after being gone with our child for 13 days without saying where, he has made no attempt to contact me or to talk to his son.... is it really possible for the human heart to be so Hard and to not care about others? Especially your wife and your blood??? I just find it really hard....


----------



## turnera

Yes, it's really possible, and he's shown you that that is who he is, since at least when your son was born. Stop second guessing who he is.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Lonely is NOT a reason to stay with an abuser, linda. Use this feeling to gather strength. And anger. How DARE he put you in this position where you have to - after all this time of feeling horrible because of him - be the one to change the situation? He doesn't deserve you.
> 
> And you WILL find someone else. Hopefully not for a couple of years, after lots of therapy to figure out why you tolerated it all, so you don't just pick another abuser.


I was lonely even when i was right next to him...


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Yes, it's really possible, and he's shown you that that is who he is, since at least when your son was born. Stop second guessing who he is.


Unbelievable!


----------



## Openminded

You expect him to react the way a normal person would. He's not and never will be. Refocus.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> I know I am going on about this, but it is just hard for me to accept and I feel a need to understand why after being gone with our child for 13 days without saying where, he has made no attempt to contact me or to talk to his son.... is it really possible for the human heart to be so Hard and to not care about others? Especially your wife and your blood??? I just find it really hard....


Linda,

Your frustration is perfectly understandable. I know people keep telling you not to dwell on it, but it's perfectly human for you to do so. 

But soon enough your husband will have to explain things to someone. Eventually his friends, family, or even co-workers will notice that his wife and son are missing, and he will have to come up with an explanation about what happened. To put himself in a sympathetic light, it's very likely he will them that you left him, are having an affair, and refuse to allow him to see his son. I'm just pointing this out for you to be prepared in case these kind of accusations come your way.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> .... is it really possible for the human heart to be so Hard and to not care about others? Especially your wife and your blood??? I just find it really hard....


Yes it is, but it does happen. It takes a special breed of robot to be like that. Remember my stbxh turned his back on our son. We have learned to live life as if he died.


----------



## Advocado

Theseus said:


> ...
> 
> But soon enough your husband will have to explain things to someone. Eventually his friends, family, or even co-workers will notice that his wife and son are missing, and he will have to come up with an explanation about what happened. To put himself in a sympathetic light, it's very likely he will them that you left him, are having an affair, and refuse to allow him to see his son. I'm just pointing this out for you to be prepared in case these kind of accusations come your way.


The above relates somewhat to an earlier post I made where I said I think it best you send a simple short e-mail telling your H where his son is now living. 

I am curious – does your son have any contact with his paternal grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. Perhaps particularly with the Christmas period coming they will start asking questions. Might be worthwhile you copying them in if you send email as suggested. Still keep it short, simple, courteous.


----------



## SaltInWound

How are you doing, Linda? How is the little one?


----------



## Troubledlinda

So, here is where I'm at: I left home on November 15th while H was on business trip. A week prior to that I informed him that I needed to take a 3 to 4 weeks break to think, since the situation at home was not improved, he didn't say much to that.... 

The plan was to go stay with my folks for that time, but as per our traditions, a married woman cannot go back to parents without first making a transition, so I travelled to my sister for the past 3 weeks and flying home tomorrow to now stay with my parents.... (I know it sounds complicated) 

For the whole time I've been gone, he didn't make any contact... maybe he thinks I'm at my parents??? Nobody is looking for me or my son, not even in laws. Hmmm. My parents are very Shocked! 

Son keeps asking for daddy... and says he wants to go home, but we aren't going home...


----------



## turnera

That's just the way it's going to have to be for your son, linda. If you returned to your husband, you would end up with major depression and/or suicidal. You can't be a good mother in that condition. And he's a child. You have to make the right decisions FOR him, not let him dictate YOUR decisions. If kids could make all the decisions, we'd all be eating ice cream and french fries and watching cartoons all day long.


----------



## Advocado

Troubledlinda said:


> ... Nobody is looking for me or my son, not even in laws. Hmmm. ...


Wonder what story he told them?


----------



## turnera

She's a hooker, he wasn't my real son, she cheated on me, I pitied her...


----------



## DaytoDay

turnera said:


> If kids could make all the decisions, we'd all be eating ice cream and french fries and watching cartoons all day long.


Yea, you're right, but wouldn't it be GREAT??!!


----------



## turnera

It would be great. But none of them would have ever have been invented.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> Yes it is, but it does happen. It takes a special breed of robot to be like that. Remember my stbxh turned his back on our son. We have learned to live life as if he died.


SIW, you were Right! When I came back from my trip, I found that he was out of town and had locked the gate in front of the door, for which he knew I didn't have a key. That was Friday night, so I went to my parents. On Sunday I stopped by, the car was there, gate unlocked, lights on so he was there...I tried to open with my key only to find that he left the key on the other side, so I rang and banged the door but he never opened... His son was yelling for daddy to open but noooo.

Monday while he was at work, I went back to get some of my stuff. He has redecorated the living room, removed 2 of the 4 pillows on our bed and removed all my pictures and wedding pictures from the house. I was shocked beyond belief. 

I hear from a mutual friend that he loves me and wants me to come back home...:scratchhead:


----------



## turnera

Of course he does. To them. He has to make sure that you look like the devil and he's the angel. Ignore it.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> SIW, you were Right! When I came back from my trip, I found that he was out of town and had locked the gate in front of the door, for which he knew I didn't have a key. That was Friday night, so I went to my parents. On Sunday I stopped by, the car was there, gate unlocked, lights on so he was there...I tried to open with my key only to find that he left the key on the other side, so I rang and banged the door but he never opened... His son was yelling for daddy to open but noooo.
> 
> Monday while he was at work, I went back to get some of my stuff. He has redecorated the living room, removed 2 of the 4 pillows on our bed and removed all my pictures and wedding pictures from the house. I was shocked beyond belief.
> 
> I hear from a mutual friend that he loves me and wants me to come back home...:scratchhead:


Linda, you have your answer. You know what you have to do. See a lawyer, file, and protect your property. I feared this would happen. It is the reason I told you to make sure you got anything sentimental out of the house. 

Did you make a list of all belongings that were in the house? He may decide to be spiteful and start throwing your things away, or giving them away just to hurt you more. 

He doesn't love you and doesn't want you to go back home......HIS home. Remember.......actions, not words. Like Turnera said, he is only telling people what he knows they want to hear in order to make himself look good. You are the devil who ruined the marriage and ripped his child from him. Remember that victim mentality. 

I am going to ask a question I don't think has been covered. Do you think he could be having an affair?


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> ........so I rang and banged the door but he never opened... His son was yelling for daddy to open but noooo.


Custody will go well for you. Your son will come to learn that a real daddy will never turn his back on him.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I am going to ask a question I don't think has been covered. Do you think he could be having an affair?[/QUOTE]

I have suspected an affair a while back and when I asked him if he was seeing someone, he got angry and said that he has never cheated on me and if I didn't trust him, there was no need for us to be together, as trust is the basis of marriage :scratchhead:
needless to say that I got the silent treatment for asking...


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> Of course he does. To them. He has to make sure that you look like the devil and he's the angel. Ignore it.


Call me naive, but I really never knew that anyone could be this cruel and messed up in the head. I really wonder what happened in his life for him to become this way... I feel a bit sorry for him.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> I am going to ask a question I don't think has been covered. Do you think he could be having an affair?


That would explain the frequent business trips he took as well as his bizarre behavior. Do you have any way of checking your cell phone bill? That's a good place to start.

But if he is having an affair, think of it this way. Now this other woman will have to deal with his silent treatments instead of you!


----------



## turnera

It doesn't matter if he's cheating. He's one of the most harmful spouses and fathers I've ever heard of, and if she goes back to him, I will be very very upset.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> That would explain the frequent business trips he took as well as his bizarre behavior. Do you have any way of checking your cell phone bill? That's a good place to start.
> 
> But if he is having an affair, think of it this way. Now this other woman will have to deal with his silent treatments instead of you!


I managed to get into his email but found nothing... For his cell phone he has a work phone so the bill doesn't come to the house. He might have an extra cell that he keeps at work, who knows? 

I feel at peace and accept that he probably won't give me closure. 

As you've always said, I really think that he wants out but has no guts to say it. I am sure that he is relieved that I finally got it. Just feel sorry for my son.


----------



## Troubledlinda

turnera said:


> It doesn't matter if he's cheating. He's one of the most harmful spouses and fathers I've ever heard of, and if she goes back to him, I will be very very upset.


I wont be going back...This has gone too far.


----------



## SaltInWound

turnera said:


> It doesn't matter if he's cheating. He's one of the most harmful spouses and fathers I've ever heard of, and if she goes back to him, I will be very very upset.


You are absolutely right. It doesn't matter if he is cheating as far as the relationship is concerned........it is over! I think if he has been, she needs to get STD testing, etc as suggested for other posters in that situation. I think I would do it anyway if I were Linda. 

I think she and I are married to creatures of the same mold. It is unfathomable how a person can be so mentally ill, so disconnected as a human being that they feel nothing for their own children. My stbxh said some horrible things to our son. Things a father should never say to their child. He has gone dark on our son. I guess those horrible things was his way of twisting the knife to finish destroying him emotionally.....to ensure our son would never try to contact him in the future, thus ruining his perfect world with his new wh0re and her son. After all, they do nothing unless it benefits themselves somehow.

The best thing Linda can do is get her belongings, divorce this man and never have contact with him again. And for the sake of the child, never try to encourage this vile man to have a relationship with his son if he continues staying dark. He doesn't deserve to have this precious boy in his life. And this child doesn't need a lifetime of manipulation. 

This is incredibly sad.


----------



## Troubledlinda

SaltInWound said:


> You are absolutely right. It doesn't matter if he is cheating as far as the relationship is concerned........it is over! I think if he has been, she needs to get STD testing, etc as suggested for other posters in that situation. I think I would do it anyway if I were Linda.
> 
> This is incredibly sad.


We haven't had sex in a year and only once last year. Says he is not attracted to me cause I am not kind.


----------



## turnera

That is one sick dude.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> We haven't had sex in a year and only once last year. *Says he is not attracted to me cause I am not kind*.


 At least you can tell him the feelings are mutual.


----------



## Advocado

It hurts me just to read what you are going through Linda. I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you.

Just remember, when you hit rock bottom, the only way is up. You're away from him now - and that's a very positive thiing, because now you have space and time to choose, focus and plan for a bright and happy future for you and your son.


----------



## SaltInWound

Advocado said:


> Just remember, when you hit rock bottom, the only way is up. You're away from him now - and that's a very positive thiing, because now you have space and time to choose, focus and plan for a bright and happy future for you and your son.


I can't agree more. It truly is freeing to be away from someone so oppressive. It makes you feel like you are living someone else's life because you have choice and feel happiness, which are things severely missing when living with a narcissist. 
Freedom :smthumbup:


----------



## WayUpNorth

tyler1978 said:


> Reading this thread has been very thought provoking. I am guilty of giving my wife the silent treatment. I do not yell or scream when I am upset with her. I just shut down and ignore her. It usually only lasts a day or so. Our spats are somewhat rare but still I think it would be worth exploring a change in my ways.


I have been guilty of that myself. She said some things that really hurt me, and I just clammed up. 
I guess it would be better to let her know that her words hurt.


----------



## Allesar

To the OP: I haven't read the entire thread but it looks like you're away from your tormentor and I am proud of you for taking that step! I too was married to someone like this, and learned my lesson. My story was short, thankfully, and didn't involve children.

He used to go silent for no reason that I could tell, and would say "nothing" when I asked him what was wrong. "I just need a little space," was his refrain, "it has nothing to do with you." A day or so of this and he'd come back to life, so I always figured it really wasn't me and I was being kind by letting him sulk. A balance was struck. 

After two years of dating and then four years living together we got married. Things were ok during our first year of marriage, but he just decided at some point that he was checking out of the marriage and relationship. But I didn't find that out until eight months later. Those were the worst months of my life. He basically ignored me altogether. He ignored my 30th birthday. He changed his work hours so he'd work nights while I worked days and we'd go five days without seeing one another. He quit one job and took another without telling me. He didn't come to my brother's wedding. On and on and on.

The end came when I told him that I was going to visit my brother in another state for a week and "when I get back we need to talk." He said OK, and that was that. Well, when I got back I was going through the mail and stuff and I asked him where the paycheck was that he got while I was away. He said he took it and rented a furnished room for himself, because, basically, he figured we were breaking up. I was the one who actually left the house that night, but he had left the marriage months before.

I was crushed at the time but honestly, it didn't take me long to get over it. When I told a friend how surprised I was that I wasn't more depressed, she wisely observed that I'd been grieving already for the last eight months even while still in the home. 

So I predict the same for you. It's going to be much harder with a child who misses his father, but as you heal and grow your child will reap the benefit of that as well. All the best to you for a healthy and HAPPY future!

(BTW, I met my REAL husband less than a year later and we've now been married 18 years. It took him a while to convince me that I wasn't second-place in this relationship, such was the blow my ego had taken. But it's all good now.)


----------



## SaltInWound

WayUpNorth said:


> I have been guilty of that myself. She said some things that really hurt me, and I just clammed up.
> I guess it would be better to let her know that her words hurt.


Yes, speaking is always the mature way to handle conflict. If you need time to gather your thoughts and emotions, then tell her you don't feel comfortable with the direction of the conversation and need "x" amount of time and then you will talk to her, but it has to be a reasonable amount of time. It can't be 4 hours or 3 days. And you have to keep your word. Once time is up, you must speak to her, otherwise, you are using silence to control and punish.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Allesar said:


> To the OP:
> 
> I was crushed at the time but honestly, it didn't take me long to get over it. When I told a friend how surprised I was that I wasn't more depressed, she wisely observed that I'd been grieving already for the last eight months even while still in the home.
> 
> So I predict the same for you. It's going to be much harder with a child who misses his father, but as you heal and grow your child will reap the benefit of that as well. All the best to you for a healthy and HAPPY future!
> 
> (BTW, I met my REAL husband less than a year later and we've now been married 18 years. It took him a while to convince me that I wasn't second-place in this relationship, such was the blow my ego had taken. But it's all good now.)



Hello, yes I do catch myself being happy and feeling at peace at times and wonder why I am not sad or depressed but then I remember how miserable I have been for the past 4 months. It has taken every fiber in my body to find the courage to open the door and leave. 

I do feel sad for my son when he says that he wants to go home and be with dad, it breaks my heart. I feel sad for the failure of my marriage but I don't miss the treatment I got at home. 

We will be fine


----------



## Troubledlinda

Feeling a lot of pain and sadness these days. Son keeps asking for daddy and when we are going home? This morning when he woke up the first thing he told me was: "mommy I am sad, I want my daddy"! So Painful! How do I deal with this?


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## turnera

What have you told him, exactly?

Sounds to me like he still asks it because he doesn't think this is permanent. And the only way he can think that is from cues from you.


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## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> Feeling a lot of pain and sadness these days. Son keeps asking for daddy and when we are going home? This morning when he woke up the first thing he told me was: "mommy I am sad, I want my daddy"! So Painful! How do I deal with this?


Why can't you call his dad? 

You don't need to have a conversation with him. Just call and say: "your son would like to speak to you, would you like to speak to him?" Maybe drop him off with his dad for a few hours. If you two are going to live separately, you have to decide what to do with your son from now on. Might as well try to figure that out now.


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## turnera

That's true, IF he is willing to be in his son's life (which I doubt). Try it. But if he's not, please break it off now (and get your son a therapist to deal with the grief), so he can mentally move on now, rather than later when it will be much harder to heal.


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## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Why can't you call his dad?
> 
> You don't need to have a conversation with him. Just call and say: "your son would like to speak to you, would you like to speak to him?" Maybe drop him off with his dad for a few hours. If you two are going to live separately, you have to decide what to do with your son from now on. Might as well try to figure that out now.


Hello 

he has seen his dad twice. The first time was short, 30 minutes. I took him over but H didn't say a word to me. We have been talking separately to our older couple wedding witness and that's how he got me to take son over. 

This past Saturday I took son in the morning and picked him up at 5pm. Found out from son that they went to one of H relatives birthday lunch so all in laws were there and happy to see son and so was he to see them.

We are meeting together this weekend with the older couple, for the first time.


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## Troubledlinda

This situation is way more painful than I ever thought or Imagined! For those of you with similar situation, is there really a light at the end of the tunnel? 

I have zero contact with my husband, not even regarding son... not even on Christmas Day! It Stings!


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## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> This situation is way more painful than I ever thought or Imagined! For those of you with similar situation, is there really a light at the end of the tunnel?
> 
> I have zero contact with my husband, not even regarding son... not even on Christmas Day! It Stings!


WOW!! That is cold.

What about your son's grandparents? (your in-laws). Certainly they want to see him?


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## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> WOW!! That is cold.
> 
> What about your son's grandparents? (your in-laws). Certainly they want to see him?


Yes, it is the coldest treatment I have ever received in my entire Life! 
My inlaws do ask to see son so I send him to his dad every Saturday, thinking he would take them to his parents, but I guess he doesn't.

I spoke to my father in law yesterday. He was so sweet. but his wife wasn't home. I think she's upset with me. Don't know what her son told them. 

This is really tough.


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## Advocado

In Linda's situation I think I would write a short note to the mother in law and explain that despite the differences with the husband, she is very welcome to see child and if for any reason husband is unable to himself bring child for a visit on said Saturdays, I would be willing to drop son off at their place for a visit and collect him later, or arrange to meet somewhere and do a handover. 

I might also add that that although we (i.e. Linda and mother in law) have not spoken of the reasons for the family splitting up I realise that she is an intelligent enouth woman to realise that there are two sides to every story - and leave it at that unless mother in law specifically came back and asked direct questions of me, in which case I would give the key facts without embellishment.


----------



## northernlights

Linda, my girls and I saw Frozen this weekend (new Disney film, SO GOOD!!), and have been listening to this song ever since. It's so inspiring and I thought of you. Give it a listen if you need a boost!

Disney's Frozen "Let It Go" Sequence Performed by Idina Menzel - YouTube


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## Troubledlinda

northernlights said:


> Linda, my girls and I saw Frozen this weekend (new Disney film, SO GOOD!!), and have been listening to this song ever since. It's so inspiring and I thought of you. Give it a listen if you need a boost!
> 
> Disney's Frozen "Let It Go" Sequence Performed by Idina Menzel - YouTube


Wow! That sure gave me a Boost! Thank you so much for Sharing! I will listen to it every time I need To! 

Sometimes I catch myself wanting to go back there... I know it sounds Crazy!


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> In Linda's situation I think I would write a short note to the mother in law and explain that despite the differences with the husband, she is very welcome to see child and if for any reason husband is unable to himself bring child for a visit on said Saturdays, I would be willing to drop son off at their place for a visit and collect him later, or arrange to meet somewhere and do a handover.
> 
> I might also add that that although we (i.e. Linda and mother in law) have not spoken of the reasons for the family splitting up I realise that she is an intelligent enouth woman to realise that there are two sides to every story - and leave it at that unless mother in law specifically came back and asked direct questions of me, in which case I would give the key facts without embellishment.


We have a meeting planned for next week him, me and our respective families to explain ourselves. In our culture, marriage is regarded as two families coming together and becoming one... so now that everything is falling apart, we have to discuss together. I'm glad we are doing that so that everybody can hear both sides at the same time... from that point I think it will be easier for me to move on and get some sort of closure.


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## Troubledlinda

I sent son to spend the day with his dad, the way I do every Saturday even though we're not talking to each other... He decided to keep him until Monday!


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## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> In Linda's situation I think I would write a short note to the mother in law and explain that despite the differences with the husband, she is very welcome to see child and if for any reason husband is unable to himself bring child for a visit on said Saturdays, I would be willing to drop son off at their place for a visit and collect him later, or arrange to meet somewhere and do a handover.
> 
> I might also add that that although we (i.e. Linda and mother in law) have not spoken of the reasons for the family splitting up I realise that she is an intelligent enouth woman to realise that there are two sides to every story - and leave it at that unless mother in law specifically came back and asked direct questions of me, in which case I would give the key facts without embellishment.


I suspect his mother is as bad if not worse than he is. She's probably the cause of his cruelty and Dysfunction!


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## Troubledlinda

I was just thinking of all the mean things my husband has done to me over the years, especially ever since things started getting bad and I was wondering if it is humanly possible to ever trust a man again?


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> We have a meeting planned for next week him, me and our respective families to explain ourselves. In our culture, marriage is regarded as two families coming together and becoming one... so now that everything is falling apart, we have to discuss together. I'm glad we are doing that so that everybody can hear both sides at the same time... from that point I think it will be easier for me to move on and get some sort of closure.


Keep us informed. I am very curious how your husband is going to explain his side of things. Please don't be intimidated by him this time. Simply explain, with as little anger as possible, how your husband gave you the silent treatment for months and still won't explain what was wrong. 

I think very soon though, you should create a new thread. New people will join the conversation and you would get new perspectives on your problem. 



Troubledlinda said:


> I was wondering if it is humanly possible to ever trust a man again?


If you are thinking of going lesbian, I promise you that many women pull this "silent treatment" too, as my wife did (although she was not as bad as your husband). 

All I can say for certain is that in regard to this issue at least, most men don't behave the way your husband does.


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## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Keep us informed. I am very curious how your husband is going to explain his side of things. Please don't be intimidated by him this time. Simply explain, with as little anger as possible, how your husband gave you the silent treatment for months and still won't explain what was wrong.
> 
> I think very soon though, you should create a new thread. New people will join the conversation and you would get new perspectives on your problem.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are thinking of going lesbian, I promise you that many women pull this "silent treatment" too, as my wife did (although she was not as bad as your husband).
> 
> All I can say for certain is that in regard to this issue at least, most men don't behave the way your husband does.


Yes, I will keep you posted and yes, I will start a new thread as soon as we have that meeting and start moving towards legal stuff.


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## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> I was just thinking of all the mean things my husband has done to me over the years, especially ever since things started getting bad and I was wondering if it is humanly possible to ever trust a man again?


I read all nice (and most likely normal) behavior as narcissistic facade. That is what living with the worst of the worst does to a person.


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## Troubledlinda

Your silence will never affect anymore. 
Never again, will I let you call me stupid or crazy.
Never again will I let you disrespect me in front of our son.
I will never have to see you sleep on the sofa again to avoid me.
I will never have to pretend to be happy anymore. 
I will never have to cover up for your mistreatment anymore.
You've hurt me so bad but I will come out of this with my head held High!
I've been a good wife to you, I've given my life, my heart, my all while being treated like Dirt! 
No More! No More! No More! 

Despite all your cruelty, I sent you our son for the day... you kept him 2 extra days.... today, he was supposed to come back to me.... you decided to send him to your parents until after new Years!!! Looking for ways to punish me? I will not Break! Thank you for showing me your real Face! You Suck!


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## turnera

Do you have legal protection against him doing this?


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## 3Xnocharm

turnera said:


> Do you have legal protection against him doing this?


My thought here as well. This is bullsh!t that he thinks its ok to just do whatever he wants with your son! You MUST get something in place that he is required to follow! Otherwise you can just be a b!tch back and refuse to take your son to see him. That may force some communication on his side too, he is just acting like a giant baby at this point.


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## Troubledlinda

As soon as son gets back, I will not let him go Again until we have a legal agreement. I tried to play nice and fair but again he takes Advantage! Enough of his BS!


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## Troubledlinda

I've been nice all this time but the beast in me is waking Up!


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## Theseus

3Xnocharm said:


> This is bullsh!t that he thinks its ok to just do whatever he wants with your son!


Why is it "bullsh!t"? This is also his son, so for all his faults, he has just as much right as Linda does. Of course it would be helpful for them to make some kind of legal agreement, since it looks like this couple can't work anything out themselves.


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## golfergirl

In Canada if you go to his parents with authorities, you as parent have more right than them to get your son. Don't know your rules there but something to look in to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> Why is it "bullsh!t"? This is also his son, so for all his faults, he has just as much right as Linda does. Of course it would be helpful for them to make some kind of legal agreement, since it looks like this couple can't work anything out themselves.


You are right, he has equal rights in regards to his son and as I have mentioned in my previous posts: I would never stop him from seeing his son and would never ever deprive my son of seeing his dad. For In the good of our son, I do want to have a good relationship with my husband. In fact, his dad never asked for me to bring him son, I do it on my own to show him that I'm not his enemy and to show him that I don't intend to keep him away from his son... what I don't like is that I send him for the day, he sends him to his parents for two nights and sends a third party to inform me.... today, they're supposed to bring him back, but no.... They inform me, by the third party, that they will keep him till Thursday. That's what I don't find Right!


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## golfergirl

Theseus said:


> Why is it "bullsh!t"? This is also his son, so for all his faults, he has just as much right as Linda does. Of course it would be helpful for them to make some kind of legal agreement, since it looks like this couple can't work anything out themselves.


It's bullish!t because it's not his goal to see his son. His goal is to keep son from Linda? Seriously Theseus what is your story? Either you have been horribly wronged by a woman or you are an abuser and only see things from a bully perspective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus

golfergirl said:


> It's bullish!t because it's not his goal to see his son. His goal is to keep son from Linda? Seriously Theseus what is your story? Either you have been horribly wronged by a woman or you are an abuser and only see things from a bully perspective.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



 and 

Golfergirl, I HIGHLY recommend you look back a few pages in this long thread. Or go back to the very first page! You will see me right there. I have been nothing but supportive of Linda throughout this thread. So I would thank you to take your knee-jerk BS elsewhere. I also warn you against making personal attacks on this forum.


----------



## SaltInWound

Troubledlinda said:


> We have a meeting planned for next week him, me and our respective families to explain ourselves. In our culture, marriage is regarded as *two families coming together and becoming one*... so now that everything is falling apart, we have to discuss together. I'm glad we are doing that so that everybody can hear both sides at the same time... from that point I think it will be easier for me to move on and get some sort of closure.





Troubledlinda said:


> ..... he sends him to his parents for two nights and sends a third party to inform me.... today, they're supposed to bring him back, but no.... *They inform me, by the third party*, that they will keep him till Thursday. That's what I don't find Right!


Be very careful Linda. Obviously they DON'T view the cultural aspect of marriage the same way you do. Be prepared for that upcoming meeting. It is clear they have sided with their son.


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## golfergirl

Theseus said:


> and
> 
> Golfergirl, I HIGHLY recommend you look back a few pages in this long thread. Or go back to the very first page! You will see me right there. I have been nothing but supportive of Linda throughout this thread. So I would thank you to take your knee-jerk BS elsewhere. I also warn you against making personal attacks on this forum.


Seriously, how could you justify supporting his equal rights to his son. In a normal situation of course they are both the little guy's parents. But this dad didn't check on son's well-being for weeks. You know him keeping son isn't being done because he cares and misses his boy. It's strictly out of control and to hurt Linda. Legally speaking - sure he has equal rights. But based on his history it just irked me to see someone support his equal rights to child when not being done for child's best interest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ellie5

Hi Linda, I'm relieved for you that you had the courage to leave this man.

I also agree with golfer girl - he has no right to ad hoc take it upon himself to keep your son for more than you were anticipating. This is one serious narcissist who's not even capable of treating you like a human being.

What your son needs is continuity, not confusion. Given his father has previously thought it perfectly ok to ignore not only you but his own son on some of these business trips for example - and yet, what, suddenly now he thinks it's *ok* to keep him for several nights WITHOUT your agreement is absolute bull****. I would be livid. You are his mother and the primary care giver.

Find out what your legal rights are now. You have given, and given, and given, and given to this callous and cold excuse for a man. All you've had back is cruelty beyond belief.

Anger carries energy - use it to your advantage. Don't be bitter, be clever. 

I wish you every success for 2014.


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## Theseus

golfergirl said:


> Seriously, how could you justify supporting his equal rights to his son.


This isn't about my personal opinion, because I never met the guy. Even though he's probably a jerk, he's still the kid's father. I don't know what the laws are specifically where Linda lives but I assume that at this point he has the same legal rights here as she has. 



> _In a normal situation of course they are both the little guy's parents. But this dad didn't check on son's well-being for weeks._


Which is something a judge should take into account when assigning custody. But until that happens, the reality on the ground is that he's still the kid's dad.


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## golfergirl

That's why Linda needs to find out the law where she is. Where I live - without custody order, parents have equal rights, but authorities will not intervene. If son is with Linda, they will not take him from her to give to husband and vice versa. But if kids are with approved caregiver, the parents rights trump that and authorities with give child to parent over grandparent or babysitter. But rules sound different there. Worth exploring rather than rolling over and waiting for him to bring son back. If son is with grandparents now even with dad's consent, where I am, she can go get the boy and the law won't stop her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Troubledlinda

Meeting my husband on Wednesday evening, after 3 months of silent treatment + 2 months of separation with no contact. We will be meeting with our wedding witness couple to discuss how the main family meeting will go next week...


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## SaltInWound

Stay strong Linda. Don't allow him to manipulate. If he tries to work on others, speak up. If he tells lies, correct it. Don't let him see your anger. This is YOUR turn. If it needs to be said, get it out now, because you most likely will never have this opportunity again.


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## turnera

Write out all your issues on paper. Make copies. Hand out the copies - of everything he has done to you - before you even start talking. We can help if you need it.


----------



## SaltInWound

turnera said:


> Write out all your issues on paper. Make copies. Hand out the copies - of everything he has done to you - before you even start talking. We can help if you need it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

The best advice EVER! That way even if you do get nervous and forget to verbalize something important, it is there to be read by all.


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## Troubledlinda

The meeting went so bad! Basically he forgot everything that happened during the 3 months before I left... he focused on me leaving with our son without saying where I was going... and everything that happened after that. Basically, I am the monster and he the victim of my very selfish behavior.... 

Craziness! You were all so right, he is sick!

I did get angry, which I regret... I should have stayed calm cause everytime I got angry, he said: "you see how angry and out of control she gets, this is what I have to deal with on a regular basis... conversations with her is just impossible, that's why I would rather keep silent..." 

I kept shaking my head at how crazzzzzy this is!


----------



## turnera

So what happened? Did you show them all what he did?


----------



## Advocado

Hmm... his behaviour at the meeting is not surprising, given his past conduct. Expect, and be prepared for, more of the same - see it as a learning experience and grow. 

I am wondering if the issues were written down on paper as Turnera suggested. If not, it could still be prepared and delivered now, although of course presenting it at the meeting would have been preferable. Could add that anger expressed at said meeting is regretted. 

And the upshot of the meeting was ...............?


----------



## Troubledlinda

Advocado said:


> And the upshot of the meeting was ...............?


We had to end the meeting because we couldn't get anywhere, he kept beating around the bush and shift blame so the other couple ended the discussion and asked that we meet again after 48 hours later, when everyone is calm and ready to continue the discussion. 

The family meeting is on monday and the latest news I got today was: He is willing to reconcile with me if I ask him for forgiveness for leaving with our son without his consent... he will not ask me for forgiveness for his behavior because he still doesn't believe that he has any fault in this! In his eyes, he's done nothing wrong!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Troubledlinda said:


> We had to end the meeting because we couldn't get anywhere, he kept beating around the bush and shift blame so the other couple ended the discussion and asked that we meet again after 48 hours later, when everyone is calm and ready to continue the discussion.
> 
> The family meeting is on monday and the latest news I got today was: He is willing to reconcile with me if I ask him for forgiveness for leaving with our son without his consent... he will not ask me for forgiveness for his behavior because he still doesn't believe that he has any fault in this! In his eyes, he's done nothing wrong!


Wow he would do that for you?? What a guy! I hope you told him in no uncertain terms to fvck off!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Troubledlinda

3Xnocharm said:


> Wow he would do that for you?? What a guy! I hope you told him in no uncertain terms to fvck off!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He is seriously sick!


----------



## turnera

That's what you would expect from an abuser. Why would he suddenly start feeling it from your side?

I hope to god you didn't agree to his ridiculous demands?


----------



## Advocado

There's a need to think carefully, long, hard and realistically about possible options, plus wants and needs in readiness for Monday's meeting. Know what it is you want to happen next. I still think Turnera's idea of getting stuff down on paper is a good one.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> The meeting went so bad! Basically he forgot everything that happened during the 3 months before I left... he focused on me leaving with our son without saying where I was going... and everything that happened after that. Basically, I am the monster and he the victim of my very selfish behavior....


I said earlier that it looked like he wanted to divorce you, but wanted to force you to leave so that he looks like the victim to everyone else. It seems he is still following that script to the letter. 



> _Craziness! You were all so right, he is sick!_


Actually Linda, he isn't sick at all. His actions aren't of someone who is crazy or mentally ill. Instead, it really looks like the actions of a cold-calculating, heartless person. 



> _I did get angry, which I regret... I should have stayed calm cause everytime I got angry, he said: "you see how angry and out of control she gets, this is what I have to deal with on a regular basis... conversations with her is just impossible, that's why I would rather keep silent..." _


Linda, I know it's frustrating, but there's no point in arguing with him because he already knows what he did. He's just not going to publicly admit it. 

Instead, just make two things clear to everyone else:


He gave you the silent treatment for months, and that's what has made you so angry; it's not the other way around as he's claiming. Just as one example, you can tell them about how he gave you the silent treatment on your own honeymoon!

Even after months of silence he never even told you what you supposedly did wrong. No reasonable person can live in that kind of environment.



Troubledlinda said:


> He is willing to reconcile with me if I ask him for forgiveness for leaving with our son without his consent...


Tell everyone you couldn't get his consent because he wouldn't discuss anything with you. Also remind them that he never even tried to call your son after you left. 



> _he will not ask me for forgiveness for his behavior because he still doesn't believe that he has any fault in this! In his eyes, he's done nothing wrong!_


Tell him you don't need apologies right now. Make it clear to everyone that *before you even consider* reconciling with him, he has to give you assurances that in the future he will treat you like an equal partner, not some stranger living in his house. He simply needs to TELL YOU when something is bothering him and why, instead of ignoring you. I think everyone would agree that's not too much to ask.


----------



## northernlights

Theseus said:


> Tell him you don't need apologies right now. Make it clear to everyone that *before you even consider* reconciling with him, he has to give you assurances that in the future he will treat you like an equal partner, not some stranger living in his house. He simply needs to TELL YOU when something is bothering him and why, instead of ignoring you. I think everyone would agree that's not too much to ask.


Don't reconcile with him based on promises!! If you offer that, and promises to be different, he won't, and he'll just use the whole thing against you. Again. He's shown you who he is, and it's not going to change. If anyone pushes you for reconciliation, just tell them the truth: that after being emotionally abused for so long, you can't see a path back to love. Some things just can't be repaired.


----------



## Troubledlinda

I just went to the house this morning to pick up some clothes and was tempted to check husband's tablet.
He is a member on every dating site possible and exchanging messages etc. 
Visits porn sites and is planning a trip with a "travelgirl"


----------



## turnera

Well, now you know for sure.


----------



## Theseus

Troubledlinda said:


> I just went to the house this morning to pick up some clothes and was tempted to check husband's tablet.
> He is a member on every dating site possible and exchanging messages etc.
> Visits porn sites and is planning a trip with a "travelgirl"



WOW, that explains a lot. At least now you have your answers, even though he was too cowardly to tell you himself. It also explains his previous frequent business trips as well. 

You should have taken a photo of the screen as evidence, or better yet, take the tablet.


----------



## Troubledlinda

Theseus said:


> WOW, that explains a lot. At least now you have your answers, even though he was too cowardly to tell you himself. It also explains his previous frequent business trips as well.
> 
> You should have taken a photo of the screen as evidence, or better yet, take the tablet.


I wrote all the sites on a piece of paper, with all the details of his profile and what he was looking for and put it in an envelope with his username on it. 

I gave him the envelope and told him that I don't need any explanation and that I leave him with his conscience... then I left.

He tried to call me and text me saying that he wanted to talk and admit his mistakes, that he didn't cheat.... He was just chatting with girls and never met anyone. I never picked up or responded to his text.... 

On Saturday he showed up at my parents (they were out) to apologize and continue saying that he didn't meet anyone. Never apologized for his silent treatment and abuse.... He just felt sorry for himself that he got caught.

Yesterday I went to the house to get some clothes and found a lipstick in my Bathroom! And it wasn't Mine!!! If you're gonna cheat, don't do it in our Home! 

The family meeting is Tonight!


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## turnera

I hope to God you are going to tell them all of it tonight.


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## Advocado

Look to the future and be happy the torture is ending.


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## Advocado

How did the meeting go and how are you and your son?


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## 3Xnocharm

Hey Linda, how are things going for you?


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## Troubledlinda

3Xnocharm said:


> Hey Linda, how are things going for you?


Hello everyone.
I'm doing okay, I guess... 

The meeting went well and I did give all my reasons for leaving, even though my in-laws don't think I should have left... and obviously took his side. 
He said he wanted to reconcile and try marriage counselling. (Which I don't really understand, since he seems to enjoy his new found freedom and he knows there is No therapist in this country)

on the 15th, it will be 3 month since I left home. I'm still living at my parents with my son, still looking for a job... I keep myself busy with gym and hanging out with girlfriends. He sees son on Saturdays and once I sent son to in-laws for the weekend. 

I spent an afternoon with my mother-in law to explain to her what was going on at home, with her son... They don't want us to divorce and want to help us get back together. 

He has made a tiny effort in talking to me and trying to "nice" but hasn't shown any attitude of someone who wants a second chance and fighting to make his marriage work. 

I still feel sad for son, as he doesn't understand why he can't see dad and why I can't go to the house with him on Saturday. He says that he misses dad... so all that breaks my heart.


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## turnera

I'm sorry you're hurting. But you were hurting MUCH more back there, and being there was hurting your son's long-term life.


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## zeezack

Troubledlinda said:


> Hello Zeezack,
> 
> Sorry to hear that your wife is giving you the ST. I know it sucks as I've been on it now for the 5th week (in a row) and it sure feels like crap. I'm sure you miss her like crazy and wish she would just come back and be happy ever after... The good thing with her being away is that it gives you some time for yourself. My case is different because I see him everyday and sleep next to him everynight but it feels like he's not even there because he totally ignores me... almost as if he doesn't see me, I don't exist...
> 
> I would say, stop trying to make contact with her and stop pleading. Let her do her thing and wait for her return... I feel that when you run after them, they get more power but when you start "neglecting" their behavior, they wander why you're acting different than what they normally see in your behavior and maybe that's when they reach out to you...
> 
> What happened before she left? did you have a fight? Did she say why she wanted a divorce?
> 
> Good luck


I managed to reconcile with her for a time in late November to January. She claimed a variety of reasons - part of the fault she blamed on cultural differences with my family - she also wanted me to leave more in a house she bought back in 2012. She jumped the boat by buying a house without me, without waiting for me until I was legible for a mortgage. I requested that she not buy the property out of distance, work, family, friend related reasons. She neglected my feelings on the matter and did so anyway. She then wanted to try for children in late January - but I felt we needed more time to patch things up and also try to resolve the housing situation. I didn't know how to support her at the house - as I never had planned to live in that location nor felt secure. She has since then continued the separation - silent treatment is extreme now and has been 3 months.


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