# Please help...I'm alone, so much is happening, and I don't know what to do!



## SilverPanther (Feb 2, 2012)

I made a post a couple days ago about the text my Dad got from my ex. Things settled down after that, and after my initial sheer panic wore off I realized I was probably being overdramatic and I hoped that the situation would just go away. It's what I have been wanting it to do all along. It has been very conveniant that my ex just vanished from sight. He is not there to confront me with his issues, or to give his side of the story. Both conveniant for me and my moving on process.


Last night, while I had friends over, and we were having a good old time, I got a phone call from what I know is a Skype connection, so I started to answer then I realized it had to be my ex, so I just hung up and refused to answer when he called back. I simply could not face talking to him right then. He ended up leaving me a hugely long voicemail going on about how he was coming to see me next week, that he had thought about surprising me with a visit, but after reading the personal journals of mine I had left at *our* house, he decided it would be better to warn me ahead of time. He then said he was coming so we can figure out our future together, and that he hoped I would be okay with allowing my husband to stay under my roof. 

The message time ran out at that point, so he called back to continue, reising his earlier assertion about staying with me to say if I would rather, he would just stay in a hotel and for me to please let him know of one that would work best for me. He then went into how he believed God was telling him to come see me, for whatever reason, so he felt he had to come, whatever might happen. He said over and over in both messages he left me that he hoped I was doing okay and everything was all right.

My first reaction was again pretty dramatic. I wouldn't answer the phone because I was scared to talk to him, and then I had a sort of freak out episode. My friends who were there tried to be as helpful as they could. They suggested changing my voicemail message to include a message to my ex telling him I would not see him and to not come, and that way I didn't even have to talk to him. I seized on that idea, and when my friends left I did just that. I like the sound of the message. I sound so cold and strong and exactly the kind of woman I want to be in the face of someone trying to bully me.

But now in the sober light of day (I was more than a little tipsy last night when all this was happening, too), I am trying to evaluate the reality of the situation. I know that I have a tendancy to villainize someone to the extreme, so he may not actually be a fire-breathing dragon, just because he is mentally unstable. Evaluating his voicemail now here are the things that strike me-

- I don't like that he says he "is" coming. He's not asking me if he can, or trying to work with me on this. But it doesn't neccesarily mean he doesnt have genuine intent to try and fix things, just that he has a long way to go, since this was an issue he had all along. He is ery good at making unilateral decisions and doing what he wants...but he can't work with anyone else. This is reflected in his decision to come see me without asking for what I want.

- The way he quickly shifted from angrily suggesting that I should allow my husband to stay with me to bargaining about a hotel room reflects either his unstable rapid mood shifts, or his attempts to manipulate me into agreeing to see him.

- When someone says God is talking to them, that can mean a number of different things. I feel that God speaks to me through feelings, events, even dreams, but never in a literal sense. Just in where things seem to be pointing in my life, or signs, etc. BUt if he means he literally thinks he hears God in his head or something, then clearly he has had a total mental break and may be dangerous. But that's something I really can't know at this point without getting more information.

This morning something finally cracked in the armor I built up around myself. I have been going along acting on my rationale entirely, not letting my heart have even the slightest say, which I think is neccessary, because there is so much pain, it feels like it could drown me. But I also realize that maybe these things I feel, the things he did to me, the things I did to him...maybe these are things that I DO need to deal with. For the first time in months I just started sobbing and yelling this morning. I am no longer afraid ex will harm me physically, I know it's possible, but it's nowhere near the most likely scenario right now...but I see now how scared I am to face him, to face our past, and what happened. That is what terrifies me, even if his intentions are entirely pure, is dealing with this. It has been so much easier to just go on and start over, and shrug and say "well, do you see a husband here? Nope, he's gone, so that means he's history...just some paperwork to take care of."

But obviously there is so much more there than just that...and I really don't know if seeing him would gain me some closure that I need, and maybe give him some he needs, or if this is just going to tear open wounds and create more. I just don't know....


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## Wildflower3 (Nov 20, 2011)

SilverPanther said:


> But obviously there is so much more there than just that...and I really don't know if seeing him would gain me some closure that I need, and maybe give him some he needs, or if this is just going to tear open wounds and create more. I just don't know....


Right now, I don't think I'm in a great emotional place to offer good advice, but I'll try...

I, personally, don't see any harm in seeing what exactly it is he has to say. In meeting with him, you could listen, and not like what you hear and send him on his way, resulting in some sort of closure. It might make you feel more empowered that you get to make that decision 100%. On the other hand, what he says you may like and you get to negotiate your future together and go to MC and work on things. Either way, seems to me that the ball is in your court now.


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## SilverPanther (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks for replying Wildflower.

He called me last night and I answered. We ended up talking for three hours. He was more rational and more willing to talk to me with respect and at least the appearance of an open mind than I have seen him in over a year.
I did agree to meet with him, with someone else coming along, at least at first. I was impressed that he didn't balk at anything. Not the insistence that I bring a third person, or that he stay in a hotel, or that most likely I would not be willing to reconcile, and if I did decide to, he would be looking at a long stretch of counselling before things were resolved.

The thing is, I know him. He has realized how badly he needs someone there, so he will say and do anything to get me back. I remember when he did this before. When he first proposed to me (I had left him a year and a half previous, and he came back to me hoping to win me back) he swept me off my feet with displays of affection, respect and maturity. I was convinced he had turned into my knight in shining armor. Until he had me for certain, then he quickly began taking me for granted and it went downhill from there...so I feel like there's no way I can trust it won't go the same way again.

On top of that, I have just learned enough about him, and about myself, to realize he and I have very difference life views, goals, ways of living our lives. I believed we were different but could make it work before. Now I'm not so sure. 

But I am scared of what I am going to face. I do believe seeing him and hearing him out is the right thing to do, for him and for me, but I am about to go through the hardest thing I have ever been through. It's easy when the guy is a total jerk then disapears. You might have some baggage, but you pick up and move forward. When someone you love is standing right there begging you to take them back...I don't know if I can make the right decision. I keep catching myself thinking of things I want to tell him when he comes into town, then getting angry at myself for that. But it's like I told him last night, the best we have ever been were as platonic friends...but it's alays been one or the other of us who can't accept that, and ends up pushing things to become more. I love talking to him, I love spending time with him. But sharing a life with him, as husband and wife THAT I don't want. And I know it shouldn't be an entirely selfish decision, I shouldn't choose what seems pleasanter or easier or more fun for me...but I also know I can't do much good for anyone if I'm miserable, and as his wife I was miserable.

I just don't know. :-/


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## Terri Bodell (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi Silver Panther

I realise that you might not want to hear this, but I have to say it in any case. I am worried and concerned for you, your health and your safety.

Having read your two posts it is clear that your ex does have some form of mental illness. It may be mild but it could be extreme and if he is psychotic then you could be in danger. From what you haven't said in your posts it sounds as though there has been some abuse in the relationship - whether verbal, emotional or physical I am not sure. But the one thing that you really do need to be careful about is not letting yourself be swayed by his abject apologies and promises that 'next time' it will be different or better or that he has realised that he needs to change. He will be extremely sincere in his explanations, rationalisations and promises and he will really believe that he means them. 

However the reality that you have to face here is that he cannot recover or get better with you. Your relationship is not healthy for either of you. You both appear to have issues surrounding this relationship and you are both better of doing that separately. See your own therapists, having counselling, work things out for yourselves. Then see if once you have done that you can be together. At least then you will have a chance of it working out because you are coming to the relationship from a healthier and more stable place. But if you take him back now and try to 'work it out' believe me it will only get worse for both of your. At best you will end up hating him and despising yourself. At worst one of you may be dead or seriously injured.

Please please be careful. I realise that it is so difficult when you still feel for the other person and remember all the good times, believe the promises and hope that it will be different. But SilverPanther you are really on dangerous ground here. If you love him then you need to walk away and hope that by doing that he will get the help that he needs to sort himself out. And if you have any love for yourself then you need to talk to a professional therapist yourself to help you through the turmoil and pain that you have in your heart - you need the support of someone who can help you through that so that you can come out the other side stronger and pain-free.

There are two books that I would suggest for you: (1) Power & Control: Why Charming Men Can Make Dangerous Lovers by Horley and (2) It's My Life Now: Starting Over After an Abusive Relationship by Dugan & Hock.

Sorry if I am sounding doom and gloom, but I want you to be safe.


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## SilverPanther (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi Terri, no need to apologize. Don't worry, I am very much aware of how disasterous reconciling right now would be. As is everyone else I have involved in this...in the past I have made my stupidest mistakes when I acted unilaterally and without the advice or help of those I trust, so I am not allowing that to happen this time. When my ex wants to be, he can be overwhelmingly charming, and I do love him, so I know if I let myself spend time alone with him and he turns up the charm, I may get sucked in by it. So this is why one of my demands for him is when we meet, it will be in the prescence of a person I trust. They will act as a grounding in reality for me, and as an objective listener that I can turn to and say "what do you really see going on here?"

And even if everything seemed to be right for reconciliation and I felt that was maybe the path to take, I am already aware (and have made ex aware) that it cannot happen without first him getting extensive counseling for his issues, and probably me getting counseling, as well as couples counseling for both of us. I will most likely also demand that he come with me to see my pastor, as well, and listen to his take on the situation. This would be his best case scenario for us and the only way I would consider any sort of future with him. We would not live together, or even see each other more than occasionally in the meantime, and I can't even say how long it would take him to gain my trust back, but it would probably be years.

I am not going into this meeting blind, don't worry.

To update on the situation, though, things don't look good for the ex's reconciling intentions. Saturday night he was very rational, reasonable, and seemingly humble and open to listening to my side of things and trying to fix things. We left it that Wednesday he would come into town and contact me and we would make arrangements to meet at some point, and in the mean time talk on the phone. He was very thorough in trying to understand from me what my needs and demands were for this meeting, and very committed to making sure that he stuck to them. Yes, I figured that most likely he was putting on a big show to impress me, but the effort it was taking him to put on that show impressed me enough with his sincerity and desire to try, I was pretty agreeable, and even positive about the idea of some sort of contact.

This morning (a day before he was scheduled to arrive, mind you) he calls me at 8:30 in the morning, collect from the bus station of the big city an hour away, saying he just spend days on buses, is at the end of his rope, and can I please just come pick him up? I was polite about it, but very firm that I was not going to do that, which precipitated a lot of whining about how far he had just traveled to see me, and how exhausted and hungry he was, and how hurt he was I wouldn't even drive an hour for him, when I used to drive all the way to Buffalo and back (a six hour trip each way) to pick him up. I pointed out, growing more irritated, that yes, I used to be willing to do that because I loved him, but things are different now, he screwed all that up, and I am no longer willing to do those sorts of things for someone who hurt me the way he has.

Then he went into how he simply doesn't understand what he did to me that would make me feel this way (negating his repeated assurances Saturday that he understood why I felt the way I did and respected that), and I got sucked into the black hole of trying to explain it to him, which brought us right back to the same argument we had dozens of times over in the last weeks before things ended. So, what small dose of sanity he had regained clearly was entirely ephemeral and is now gone. 

I am mad at myself though. I did lose control, and lashed out at him, and said hurtful, spiteful things. I know there's not a person on earth who would blame me after what he did, but it's not the way I wish to deal with this situation. Even if the way I am losing control is by spitting venom at him, it's still me losing control, and THAT I don't want. I don't feel I owe him any sort of apology, but I owe myself one.

And I can't help it. This is someone I care about, and I know he is in hell right now, and even if it's a hell he created for himself (which I reminded him multiple times Saturday and today), my heart still goes out to him. It crossed my mind to go pick him up after all. Honestly, if it was anyone else in the world, I probably would. It's just my way I guess. The person he claims is the most selfish, cruel and sadistic person he has ever known dropped everything this morning to research hotels and bus schedules so if he would call back for information (which I told him to do, but he'd rather just sit there and sulk over how I wasn't helping him out, than actually accept the help I'm willing to give) I could give him names and addresses and directions. And don't worry, I haven't believed his claims about me being a horrible person for a long time, but it is still frustrating to see him so delusional that he sees the world and me the way he does. What hope does he have, even forget me, what hope will he ever have at anything in his life if he is so deluded?

Grrrrr, so frustrating.


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## Terri Bodell (Apr 16, 2012)

Well done to you Silver Panther. Your head is, for the most part, in the right place. Keep strong because you are doing the right thing for you and that's the most important thing right now.

It is so easy to allow him to damage your self worth and make you doubt yourself. Can I suggest a book for you please. It's called Your Erroneous Zones and is by Dr Wayne Dyer. It's really good to help you realise how much we allow others to push our buttons. At this moment in time you need all the help and support you can get so I hope that this book helps you.

Let me know how things go with the ex. Keep strong, keep faith in yourself. You are an amazing, strong and vibrant woman - remember that.


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## SilverPanther (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks Terri, and thanks for the book recomendations. I just ordered Your Erroneous Zones off Ebay. Looks like that is a book I am gonna need to get reading on quickly.

I posted a thread about the latest from last night over in General Discussion. I let myself lose control of the situation again, not completely, but I definately did not handle things well. Ex is clearly very mentally ill, but has also expressed serious desire to get into counseling, and also to ask the advice of psychologists regarding our relationship. Selfishly, I want no part of that, and told him multiple times last night that he was on his own to seek help, and while I did agree with his pleas that as his wife it's my duty to get him help, the person that I am and the person I want to be is not someone who turns their back for their own selfish comfort, on someone in need. I know *I* cannot help him, but he seems to have reached that realization too, in a much more hysterical and disordered way, but all the same, if there is even a chance that he could start getting himself the help he needs if I give him a hand up, I can't ignore that.

What frustrates me is he wants us both to go to a counselor and tell them about our relationship, and ask them what they think should be done. This sounds very reasonable, and I like the idea of an objective person's opinion...but there is so much I have worked through and gotten past that I am not being forced to re-confront. My ex pointed out that if I am burying so much I can't bear to deal with, maybe I have a problem, too. I personally think it's all just fine being put in the past, and am scared of the fallout of this for myself...but it feels right. It doesn't seem completely an insane idea, right? For us to go talk to a counselor for guidance?

Of course I have no insurance and he is not an American citizen, so there's that problem too.


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## Terri Bodell (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi again Silver Panther

Well done on ordering the book. It's a good start.

I would not for one moment suggest that you turn your back on someone who needs help. But equally I don't think that going into couples counselling at this stage would be appropriate, helpful or even safe for either of you. Secondly there is no professional counsellor in the world that would give you their opinion on what you should do. I know this because I am a therapist and counsellor myself. It isn't our place to tell couples what to do, whether to stay together or split up. We are supposed to help you come to whatever decision is right for you.

And at this time, may I say, your husband needs professional psychological help to deal with his issues before he starts even contemplating working on his relationship with you. If he doesn't have the money to do that then he needs to find a voluntary organisation that can offer help and support. You do not fund it!

And because I don't know which part of the US you are located I can't suggest any support groups for you. And I really think that a face to face support group would be helpful to you right now.

Be there for him at the end of the phone by all means, but anything other than that would be damaging and dangerous for you at this time. You are vulnerable in so many ways and you need to be what you called 'selfish' for a while.

And Silver Panther - there is a difference between 'selfish' and 'self-centred' - 'self centred' means that it's all about you and everything in life revolves around what you want; 'selfish' means putting the self first which is the only way to live life. Think about it this way, if you put everyone else and their needs before yours pretty soon you will be exhausted, emotionally drained and no good to anyone. It's not self centred to make yourself, your health and mental wellbeing a priority. So please, be a little selfish and take care of you. Only then will you be in a position to care for others and have a healthy, happy relationship.

Good luck Silver Panther.


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## SilverPanther (Feb 2, 2012)

Terri- Thank you again for your reply. I agree with you, about the need to be a little selfish myself. Part of the reason the marriage did not work was I was so exhausted trying to deal with his ups and downs, I just lost who I was, or my drive to do anything with my life. Then, he began to resent me more and more because I didn't seem to do or care about anything. Bad cycle. 

So I am walking a very hard line with him, that I am still taking care of myself. For instance, tonight we met up, him and I and a friend, we had dinner, we had a good dialogue I felt, but then when it was over we went our separate ways, and now I am tired and therefore have turned my phone off. I know him, and I know he gets very anxious and wants to talk to someone at night, so I know he may very well call me. The phone is off so even if he does, I will never even be woken by it or tempted to answer, or distressed by it. This is just the current example of me putting my needs first, but I certainly agree with you, I can't just give and give and not take care of myself, cause that helps no one. And yes, I want to also have a good, fulfilling and happy life, and while I'll sacrifice a lot of small comforts to help others if I feel it's right, I'm not going to be miserable just because maybe it is helping someone else.

I am absolutely not going to fund his counseling, I already decided that. He never even asked, but I made the decision that I wouldn't. However if you know anything about volunteer counseling or support groups in Pennsylvania or Maryland area I would be interested to know them.

And I also agree that he needs help for himself before we could go into marriage counseling. I think what he was suggesting last night was we both go and talk to a counselor because he was refusing to believe me that it would be bad and unhealthy for him to be in a relationship with someone while going through therapy for his issues. He wanted to prove my statement about that wrong, in other words, which wouldn't accomplish anything either way, I just was clinging to it because I so badly want him to get into counseling, I thought maybe this would be the first step to that, but in the clear light of day and after some sleep I realized that it really isn't. I know that has to be a step he has to take on his own, for himself. I know that it can be beneficial to have the support of someone you care about encouraging you to go to counseling and stick with it, but correct me if I am wrong, but it would actually be detrimental to him to have someone at his side and in an intimate (emotionally or physically) relationship while he is going through counseling. This is what I have been told, and it makes sense to me. 

Even if it wouldn't be detrimental to him, I would still not be comfortable with the idea of being more than a voice on the other end of the phone to him, as you mentioned, I am just verifying that my understanding of the situation of intimate relationships and counseling.

I am pretty proud of myself for tonight. The dinner went smoothly and I kept myself calm, and kind but firm at all times. He got emotional at a couple points, but I kept my cool, and let him settle down without escalating things, and he pretty much kept cool, too. We are discussing divorce details now, and it is his hope that we can keep in touch afterwards, and I know that's a very sticky, very iffy sort of thing, but my gut says it is a possibility. 

All in all, this is a lot of progress to come from his hysterical raging of a couple months ago, so I am encouraged, but still taking it a day at a time because I know the nature of the beast in the case of his mental state is things could certainly backslide or deteriorate entirely and I'm prepared to again cut off all contact in the event that that happens.

No matter what happens, I am not getting sucked back into the place I was at before. Uh uh, I have too many amazing things in my life right now to go back to that miserable, stressed person I was.


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## Terri Bodell (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi Silver Panther

Sorry I couldn't respond earlier - I have been seeing my own clients and helping them through issues such as yours. That's why I joined this forum - so that I can offer help and support to women who are going through emotional turmoil. But that's not important here. This is about you....

You are doing really well and I applaud you for your strength and resolve here.

I have found some groups in Maryland and Pennsylvania that might be useful to you and here are the links to their sites.

New Beginnings New Beginnings, Inc. | Supporting Separated and Divorced Men and Women in MD, DC and VA.

Changing Focus	Changing Focus | Relationship and divorce support and education in Maryland

Maryland Support Groups	Maryland Directory of Divorce Support Groups - Divorce HQ

Divorce Care support and recovery groups	DivorceCare - Divorce Support And Recovery Groups


Support MeetUp Groups	Divorce Support Meetups near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Divorce Support Meetups - Philadelphia

I really hope that one of these groups can help to support you face to face. That way you'll have the online and live support that you need.


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