# Which would damage your love and esteem for your partner the most - a drunken hook up or an actual EA/PA?



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I have seen a number of posts where people have said they would be more likely to get past a drunken hook up than an ongoing affair. 

And any time there is a discussion about affairs, it always seems to get brought up that things would depend if it was an actual ongoing affair or drunken hook up at an office party of business trip or a GNO etc. 

So I got to really thinking about it, And I think for me personally, I would have much more loss of respect and esteem and just general consideration for someone if they got drunk and stupid one night and hooked up with some random. 

I'm not saying that an ongoing affair would be ok and I am not saying that I would not leave and divorce my wife if I discover an affair.... at this point, divorce would be a no-brainer and a done deal. 

But what I am saying is that I would be more disgusted and more angry and lose more respect and esteem if she were to go out, get gaschnockered and get it on with some dude than if she met someone, got to know each other, developed feelings and an affair developed. 

I see getting drunk and stupid to the point you are losing control of your faculties and doing stupid and destructive things as a separate, compounding offense. Hooking up would be an offense. But I would also see the getting drunk and stupid and doing risky and destructive things as an additional and compounding offense. 

People are human and they have feelings and desires and attractions. Sometimes those feelings and attractions and such are for those that are harmful to their marriage, but feelings and desires are part of the human nomenclature. 

But getting drunk and stupid and chemically impaired to the point of doing risky and harmful things isn't part of the human genome. It's bad behavior that does not have to occur. All one needs to do to not get drunk and stupid is to not get drunk and stupid. 

But that is me and it appears that my outlook and opinions on the matter are in the minority and that a drunken hook up is more acceptable to the greater population. 

But what about YOU? What would cause you to lose more love and esteem and respect and tolerance for your partner?

Would you be more or less likely to get passed a drunken hook up or an actually EA and/or PA and why?

DISCLAIMER: I am not necessarily talking about whether you would attempt reconciliation or divorce per se. That all depends on a million other factors. 

I am talking about which would honk you off and damage your love, respect and esteem for your partner the most.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

EA / PA. Would be worse for me than a ONS / GNO....
Neither are exceptable....


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

I honestly don’t believe I could get past either scenario, but I think the deliberate/ongoing betrayal of an actual affair would be worse.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> I think the deliberate/ongoing betrayal of an actual affair would be worse.


I get that and understand that and I think quite a few people are going to come back with that similar response. 

Maybe a lot has to do with one's person beliefs and attitudes toward drink and drunkeness and the behaviors that come with it. 

I see putting one's self into a sexually charged arena and putting the bottle to one's lips as deliberate. And it is deliberately doing something that is universally known to contribute to impulsive, irresponsible and even dangerous behavior. 

Some people will see the ongoing and deliberate lies and deception as worse since it is an intentional behavior while in a sober mind. 

I guess I see intentionally chemically altering your mental capacity to where you do stupid and dangerous things and then thinking you should get a free pass as worse. 

So maybe some of this comes down to how each individual views personal accountability and how much of a waiver they grant for people that drink.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Not sure which would be worse, but either would spell the end of the relationship.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I get that and understand that and I think quite a few people are going to come back with that similar response.
> 
> Maybe a lot has to do with one's person beliefs and attitudes toward drink and drunkeness and the behaviors that come with it.
> 
> ...


At the end of the day, it’s kind of like arguing between if the July weather in Phoenix or Houston is worse. One is115 and dry, the other is 99 and 99% humidity. 
Either way, we’re just kind of arguing over degrees of misery.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

A one time drunken hookup is bad and shows complete lack of control and respect but I think an on going affair is much worse because it includes MANY lies and is all done while sober with lots of time to turn it around before lines are crossed.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Either way it would mean the end of my relationship with my wife.

That said, if forced to say which one would be worse? No doubt about it that it would be a EA/PA.

A ONS is a few unacceptable choices where a EA/PA is hundreds if not thousands of conscious choices and obviously no remorse or they would have stopped after realizing the betrayal.

To be honest, there's no way a ONS could be worse, but that's just me.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

At first I thought maybe a meaningless ONS might be easier to get over. However, that would mean that she would be willing to spread her legs for a short lived thrill and pleasure of a ONS with some random dude she just met. That would mean she is totally lacking in self respect, respect for our monogamous relationship and self control. All respect for her would be permanently damaged. I could never get over that. 

In spite of that, I do think a full on affair that persists for some period of time is worse and shows an even bigger character flaw. The ONS does show that the person has some major issues with self control. Either not enough self control to stay true to your vows or not enough self control to not drink to the point of totally impairing your judgement. That pales in comparison to the ongoing lies and deceit to pull off an affair. There are so many decision points along the way to an affair that it shows multiple conscious decisions where you don't give a **** about the feelings of your spouse. To me I think you must have some hate inside you for your spouse in order for you to cheat on them

For me the first scenario would result in anger, disappointment then heartbreak. The second would result in heartbreak, disappointment then anger. Different paths, but same result in the end.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I see no point in being married if someone isn't taking it seriously. 

(Relevant fact: I'm not married. )


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

It’s like asking if you want your chit sandwich on rye or wheat.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

They both are grounds to show the WS the door


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

The moment penetration happens, they become equal infidelities fair or unfair.

Despite major differences between a drunken hookup and EA/PA affair, penetration subordinates all external and emotional influences and factors for me personally.

The relationship is over and irrevocable. My statement here isn't an example of what I would do, but what I actually did with the two fiancés that cheated on me.

I was in limbo somewhat until the physical aspect was confessed. Once confirmed, the decision to discontinue the relationship was easy for me, despite the love, which I still have for one of the two, twenty years later.

*Edit: *After further thought, I would not reconcile after an EA. I can overcome any obstacle in a relationship but betrayal and infidelity is not one of them. I can forgive as forgiving isn't synonymous with reconciliation. Reconciliation is out of the question. As I stated above, it happened twice to me and reading this site and others reminds me I made the right decision.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

I don't care, if they kissed or the clothes comes off, the marriage is done and I have the history to back up this conviction. I do not believe in any form of reconciliation for any form of PA. Period. The adulterous dies to me. I mourn the death and move on.

It's not perfect. Sometimes mourning in itself can be destructive, but I could not live with the reflection in the mirror if I did anything but kicked them (yes more than one) out of my life.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Either is a deal breaker, but emotional affairs require giving someone else your heart and that would be worse to deal with than a drunken ONS. I wonder if the “drunken ONS” on a random business trip that I’ve read about on here is really just a one time thing or if that turns into something more, with more lying and then emotions getting involved. It would be a lot to deal with either way and I’d lose trust for my husband.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

It's all the same. Makes zero difference.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Either would kill my love and respect for my partner.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I have seen a number of posts where people have said they would be more likely to get past a drunken hook up than an ongoing affair.
> 
> And any time there is a discussion about affairs, it always seems to get brought up that things would depend if it was an actual ongoing affair or drunken hook up at an office party of business trip or a GNO etc.
> 
> ...


drunken hookup is the only A that approaches a stupid mistake. 
EA/PA over time are whole different relationship and have replaced you, at least in part. For some, permanently. 

Both are bad. Drunken hookup could be a bona fide one time ffff up.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

both


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

I'd never be ok with either personally, but some EA/PAs are a result of serious problems in a relationship and the partner ignored pleas for help again and again. Exit affairs happen. Sometimes, those affairs end up being a wake-up call for both partners and those people reconcile, go on to live a happy life together. We have members here who are currently living it.



sideways said:


> To be honest, there's no way a ONS could be worse, but that's just me.


Now, if someone gets so inebriated and commits a ONS, outside of making sure they never go out drinking again, you can't ever say that it won't happen again. Every wedding, holiday party, whatever - for the rest of your life, it's always a risk.

I couldn't live with them knowing that. To me, that would be way worse, but I'd have a difficult time imagining myself forgiving an EA/PA as well.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

I think if I didn't know who the other person was the ONS would drive me insane.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Both. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

She is gone regardless, either would be complete death of any love I had for her, as I am one who would require all the dirty details to help fuel my rage and discuss for her, that there would not be a sliver of any love left for her. Also a long term PA would be much worse for the man, because he would know that she was married and I would consider both guilty as charged. At least a drunken ONS most likely the guy had no idea she was married.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I have seen a number of posts where people have said they would be more likely to get past a drunken hook up than an ongoing affair.
> 
> And any time there is a discussion about affairs, it always seems to get brought up that things would depend if it was an actual ongoing affair or drunken hook up at an office party of business trip or a GNO etc.
> 
> ...


I could have and would have reconciled if it was a drunken ONS because I have codependent tendencies and I could definitely control drunkenness. I would have felt better knowing that the whole thing wouldn’t have been lucid or very sexy or memorable, no emotions or affair high would have happened, and it would be easier to palate than months and months of abandonment and deception. 

That said, I deserve better than any of that so in my current mindset, anyone who gets wasted or puts himself in compromising situations in any capacity is never getting my affection or trust. That’s just learning things the hard way.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jlg07 said:


> both


Same.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Drunken is a one-night stand. People make mistakes when drunk. So I guess EA/PA wound be tougher to take. Neither is good.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

I think it is about how the drunken ONS versus ongoing affair makes the betrayed feel about themselves, not their esteem for the wayward. Your self esteem can have some padding when you can blame their choices on the alcohol and beer goggles. No such armor with an ongoing affair.

My husband is an alcoholic that had an affair during a sober period. I am much more enlightened about how dry drunks are even worse than active drunks now, but damn, that was wounding. It doesn’t matter how much you “know” the issues lie with the cheater and “beautiful celebrities get cheated on all the time” it really ****s with your sense of self, at least for awhile. So yeah, if I had to choose I would choose the boozy romp. It would at least give me a level of self protection and grace while I figured things out.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

They are the same to me.

If one has sex 1 time or 100 times they still betrayed me.

And drinking or being drunk is NOT an excuse so in no way does it minimize or lessen what they CHOSE to do.

Cheating is cheating, regardless of the details or circumstances.

To me, there are no passes, excuses or justifications for cheating.

An anaology. A lady is either pregnant or she isn't. There is no kind of pregnant.

A person who cheats has cheated. The circumstances and details don't matter to me.

To me, it's beyond silly to try and say one kind of cheating isn't as bad as another kind.

Betrayl is betrayl. Full stop.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Although if it is true, that what they do drunk they want to do when sober...


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## Corgi Mum (10 mo ago)

sideways said:


> A ONS is a few unacceptable choices where a EA/PA is hundreds if not thousands of conscious choices and obviously no remorse or they would have stopped after realizing the betrayal.


This is my thinking too, an ongoing affair is layer upon layer of dishonesty, perpetuated over time.

I'd probably have more difficulty with the drinking aspect of the drunken ONS. As the child of alcoholic parents I have always chosen to avoid relationships with men who drink more than occasionally. That level of drunkenness could be a dealbreaker all on its own for me, never mind the sex part.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

colingrant said:


> The moment penetration happens, they become equal infidelities fair or unfair.
> 
> Despite major differences between a drunken hookup and EA/PA affair, penetration subordinates all external and emotional influences and factors for me personally.
> 
> ...


Well said. I tried to say something similar in another thread, but I should have used "penetration" as part of my explanation.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> I have seen a number of posts where people have said they would be more likely to get past a drunken hook up than an ongoing affair.
> 
> .......But that is me and it appears that my outlook and opinions on the matter are in the minority and that a drunken hook up is more acceptable to the greater population.
> 
> ...


For me, I think people are human and make mistakes. A single ONS or a single drunken hook up would be much more forgivable. It would be a human set of errors that lead to the cheating.

Either an EA or PA over a period of time would represent several mistakes, an active attempt to deceive and creating an ongoing lie. To me it would be much worse even if it was just an EA with no actual sex. 

To me it would be the difference between someone who actively was betraying my trust and valued me so little during the length of the affair and someone who made a one-time serious error in judgement. An EA or PA strikes to the very core values of a marriage. It involves emotional love and possibly physical love. It involves your partner wanting to be with someone else intimately rather than with you. Sex with a prostitute, or a drunken hook up, isn't about love and isn't about trying to build an intimate relationship. Affairs are.

Now a serial cheater or a spouse that has multiple ONS's is a different matter that is just a total lack of respect for the marriage. But that is not what your question asked.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

rugswept said:


> drunken hookup is the only A that approaches a stupid mistake.
> EA/PA over time are whole different relationship and have replaced you, at least in part. For some, permanently.
> 
> Both are bad. Drunken hookup could be a bona fide one time ffff up.


The thing is though, it's not a mistake. The person knows they are making a choice going out without their spouse and drinking. They know they are making a choice where they go when they do that. It could be getting wasted at a friend's house rather than somewhere with available sexual partners. They know what they are doing flirting with someone and they know when they cross that line. At every stage of that there is a choice. They dont have to go home with them, they don't have to do whatever acts they refuse their spouse with their drunken hookup but sadly they very often do. People are idiots. But they are idiots who make choices. Bad choices. There's no "mistake" in a drunken hookup.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

In both cases, their needs and desires are more important than their marriage, their spouse and if they have kids, their kids. Both are a betrayal. Both show not only poor decision making but a lack of backbone and integrity. How would you get over either of those? I couldn't.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

They’re both the same. Both require complete disregard for your partner.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Deal breaker either way.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Neither my husband nor I are drinkers, so I don't give special treatment to people who are. I don't think drunk people will make a mistake that goes against their core values. So if someone was drunk and had a ONS, they are the kind of person who might do so sober. However, I feel everybody has days where they are not themselves. Days where they act out of character and make bad choices. So if I found out my husband of over two decades had such a day, there is a VERY SLIGHT chance I could forgive him and continue in the relationship, although it would be permanently damaged. But any more than one hook-up/contact with the same woman or multiple ONS with different women shows a deliberate desire to be with someone other than me. My trust and desire for him would be dead, as would our marriage.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

The question isn't which one would you forgive. The question is which one is worse.

Easy for me, the full EA/PA is worse. Both involve PAs but the EA/PA has meaning, way more deception, etc. It's like saying would you rather have a teaspoon of crap or a whole bucket of crap.

I think the more intriguing question is Which is Worse - a deep EA that never went physical or a ONS that meant nothing?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Gabriel said:


> The question isn't which one would you forgive. The question is which one is worse.
> 
> Easy for me, the full EA/PA is worse. Both involve PAs but the EA/PA has meaning, way more deception, etc. It's like saying would you rather have a teaspoon of crap or a whole bucket of crap.
> 
> I think the more intriguing question is Which is Worse - a deep EA that never went physical or a ONS that meant nothing?


If we are talking about degrees of worse, I would say the deep EA is still worse than a ONS. They may not have physically given themselves to another person, but they've given them their heart. Professing deep romantic love for another person means the marriage is over and IMO can't ever be recovered. The thoughts about all the lovey dovey exchanges between them, whining about each others spouses, sexting and masturbating together or while thinking of each other, all too much to bear.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

I look at it as one and the same.
Everyone knows drugs and alcohol remove inhibitions therefore of one is at a “party” or whatever without their spouse they should refrain from imbibing as they know there is the risk. 

I’ve seen too often where the one drunken night leads to an actual affair, and/or they had a “thing” for the other person anyway and imbibing was used as a subconscious excuse for why they “slipped and had the accident.”


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> I don't think drunk people will make a mistake that goes against their core values. So if someone was drunk and had a ONS, they are the kind of person who might do so sober.


^^^^^this^^^^
Saw it many times when working in a club.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If we are talking about degrees of worse, I would say the deep EA is still worse than a ONS. They may not have physically given themselves to another person, but they've given them their heart. Professing deep romantic love for another person means the marriage is over and IMO can't ever be recovered. The thoughts about all the lovey dovey exchanges between them, whining about each others spouses, sexting and masturbating together or while thinking of each other, all too much to bear.


I can't disagree more. Feelings change all the time, but it's impossible to un-F someone. The body makes a bond at the molecular level, far deeper than words and unicorn farts can ever do, but sexting, now that's in the black shadows of the grey area and that would also be an immediate deal-breaker for me.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> Neither my husband nor I are drinkers, so I don't give special treatment to people who are. I don't think drunk people will make a mistake that goes against their core values. So if someone was drunk and had a ONS, they are the kind of person who might do so sober. However, I feel everybody has days where they are not themselves. Days where they act out of character and make bad choices. So if I found out my husband of over two decades had such a day, there is a VERY SLIGHT chance I could forgive him and continue in the relationship, although it would be permanently damaged. But any more than one hook-up/contact with the same woman or multiple ONS with different women shows a deliberate desire to be with someone other than me. My trust and desire for him would be dead, as would our marriage.


I can only offer I've done some crazy things when inebriated I wouldn't have done otherwise. Not fooling around but way not typical. 

I don't drink much now, mostly. Rare occasions with only trustworthy friends ie no one can get hurt, not the sleeping around kind of friends. 

So, drinking and one only doing what they'd do anyway isn't always true.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I can't disagree more. Feelings change all the time, but it's impossible to un-F someone. The body makes a bond at the molecular level, far deeper than words and unicorn farts can ever do, but sexting, now that's in the black shadows of the grey area and that would also be an immediate deal-breaker for me.


Don't get me wrong, all are deal breakers. It is kind of like arguing varying degrees of dead. Are you more dead from a bullet to the head or if you are run through a wood chipper? I know what you are saying about the physical act of sex, but I still believe that and lengthy EA where you profess undying love for another person and everything else that inevitably goes along with that is certainly no better than a ONS. But again, they all spell the death of the marriage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I've had a ONS when drunk... but I wasn't married or had a girlfriend...  I have forgiven myself.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

I’ll risk the venom of TAM, but if my wife were to have a ONS or an EA/PA, I’d not divorce her immediately. Perhaps not all. There would be a lot of talking. Tears by both. But 28 yrs married. … Yes, people do make mistakes. And that of course applies to deciding to sleep with another. Go ahead. Nail me to the tree. it’s just how i feel.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’ll risk the venom of TAM, but if my wife were to have a ONS or an EA/PA, I’d not divorce her immediately. Perhaps not all. There would be a lot of talking. Tears by both. But 28 yrs married. … Yes, people do make mistakes. And that of course applies to deciding to sleep with another. Go ahead. Nail me to the tree. it’s just how i feel.


I agree with you, partially. I would maybe forgive an alcohol-induced ONS, but not an EA/PA.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’ll risk the venom of TAM, but if my wife were to have a ONS or an EA/PA, I’d not divorce her immediately. Perhaps not all. There would be a lot of talking. Tears by both. But 28 yrs married. … Yes, people do make mistakes. And that of course applies to deciding to sleep with another. Go ahead. Nail me to the tree. it’s just how i feel.


You've just given your wife permission to get another man and if you explicitly told us that, you have already implicitly told her and she knows it at her core. If that's how you feel you're dancing on the last river ice in spring.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> You've just given your wife permission to get another man and if you explicitly told us that, you have already implicitly told her and she knows it at her core. If that's how you feel you're dancing on the last river ice in spring.


And here comes the venom. Faster than expected, too. My wife has not strayed. Nor have I. Not worried here.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> And here comes the venom. Faster than expected, too.


Facts have no venom, even if people don't like them.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Facts have no venom, even if people don't like them.


Well, the fact is that has not happened.

looked up your name. Knew it was a legal term: “A verdict is, as it were, the saying of the truth, in the same manner that a judgment is the saying of the law.”

(so you are judging me, counselor. objection!)


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Well, the fact is that has not happened.


And I hope it never does, but not everyone who plays with fire gets burned. It's just wiser to not play with fire at all if you wish to avoid burns.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’ll risk the venom of TAM, but if my wife were to have a ONS or an EA/PA, I’d not divorce her immediately. Perhaps not all. There would be a lot of talking. Tears by both. But 28 yrs married. … Yes, people do make mistakes. And that of course applies to deciding to sleep with another. Go ahead. Nail me to the tree. it’s just how i feel.


I won't crucify you. I think this is a very pragmatic way of thinking. Those that have been through serious infidelity probably have good clarity in how they would react to future infidelity. For those that have no infidelity it is logical and realistic to say you don't really know what you would do. 

I know I would be done. If you know my story, my wife slept with her ex in the first month of us dating. The circumstance were such that staying was the right choice and time has proven me right. However, I know the impact that one event has had on me over the last 35 years. It happened before I was in love with her, before we even became sexual. If after all these years of professed love and countless intimate moments she were to cheat I would without hesitation be done. That said, my confidence level in her faithfulness couldn't be any higher at this point.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> And I hope it never does, but not everyone who plays with fire get's burned. It's just wiser to not play with fire at all if you wish to avoid burns.


we agree. no fire play here. but again, one never knows what future holds.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Dictum Veritas said:


> And I hope it never does, but not everyone who plays with fire gets burned. It's just wiser to not play with fire at all if you wish to avoid burns.


I got burnt and I wasn't even holding a match. 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> I got burnt and I wasn't even holding a match. 🤣🤣🤣🤣


Some wives come with hidden flame-throwers, I found that out myself.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Some wives come with hidden flame-throwers, I found that out myself.


They are well-armed.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It’s true that we all make mistakes, but affairs are calculated and involve a lot of lying, sneaking around, etc…at that point, it’s not a mistake. Getting drunk to the point that you have no ability to stop yourself from sleeping with others is also not a mistake. But, it’s up to each married couple to sort these things out, everyone’s different.

But, I don’t think we should call these things “mistakes.” It probably feels like a mistake but it’s really more along the lines of making poor choices. I think there are situations where reconciliation is possible but I think affairs and stuff like this leave indelible marks, even with couples who really want to move forward, wiping the slate clean.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I'd be most adversely affected by a PA, as that is a deliberate choice made with unimpaired emotional and intellectual capacities. I'm not as sure about an EA, as that might merely be a crush, but could also be far more serious - so, it depends. A drunken hookup would bother me less than either EA/PA, probably, as it's not a thought-out and premeditated action.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Very unwise to say you would forgive an affair here on TAM...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’ll risk the venom of TAM, but if my wife were to have a ONS or an EA/PA, I’d not divorce her immediately. Perhaps not all. There would be a lot of talking. Tears by both. But 28 yrs married. … Yes, people do make mistakes. And that of course applies to deciding to sleep with another. Go ahead. Nail me to the tree. it’s just how i feel.


No venom here. What you say above is realistic and thoughtful.

Most people DON’T divorce, and least not immediately, when an affair is discovered.

It’s easy for everyone to talk tough and say how they will immediately them to the curb and file that day. 

But the statistics do not bear that out in real world practice.

As I stated in my OP, the decision to divorce vs reconcile is based on a million different things, many of which that don’t have to do with how pissed off or hurt or disgusted someone is.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> No venom here. What you say above is realistic and thoughtful.
> 
> Most people DON’T divorce, and least not immediately, when an affair is discovered.
> 
> ...


This is true but also makes me feel what I did, I did because of emotions and not a lot of thought.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I rethought this a bit. I suppose while I would have divorced my XH either way, because I just couldnt ever trust someone who betrayed me that way, the fact that he had been to his female "friend's" house when he said he was working, lied about it etc and was in love witj her plus whatever else they did f&*[email protected] me up WAY more than the fact that he also cheated with an escort. Both showed contempt for me, both showed lack of concern for me, our marriage and or son. And both D Days were pretty devastating. I felt disgusted, lost all respect for him at both revelations. And really if we did not share a son, I likely would not have spoken to him and would have gone full scorched earth and let EVERYONE know. But I chose to try and move on and didn't tell anyone except my family and close friends. Maybe it is different if you have children together. I guess i just dont see a huge difference in the quality of person who could have a drunken hookup while married or an PA. Both of those people suck.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

A full on affair spanning time I could never get past & I wouldn't even try. 

A drunken flirtation, even some kisses, but that got pulled back before sex I'd be hurt but I'd try to be open to working my way back together. 

The rest would be physiology to me. If my husband was so black out drunk that he lost control of his moral compass how come his **** still worked? Nope not buying it. If the elevator could still make it to the top floor you weren't that drunk so now you are lying to me more & that lie would be the sticking point. Maybe, I could see my way clear to staying for one slip up followed by enrollment in AA, MC, a lot of ass kissing & full transparency but it would be hard.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’ll risk the venom of TAM, but if my wife were to have a ONS or an EA/PA, I’d not divorce her immediately. Perhaps not all. There would be a lot of talking. Tears by both. But 28 yrs married. … Yes, people do make mistakes. And that of course applies to deciding to sleep with another. Go ahead. Nail me to the tree. it’s just how i feel.


I'm not here to judge you on how you would handle your wife betraying you through infidelity. However, if your wife were to have let's say a year long EA/PA with OM this wouldn't be a "mistake". It would be hundreds and thousands of conscious choices that she would have chosen to make. All the lying etc etc. 

Could you forgive this? Well that would obviously be your call. If you were to find this out (your wife having a yr long EA/PA) you'd be hard pressed to look at it like a mistake she made. Then again if that's how you concluded it was (a "mistake") then that's your prerogative as well.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

sideways said:


> I'm not here to judge you on how you would handle your wife betraying you through infidelity. However, if your wife were to have let's say a year long EA/PA with OM this wouldn't be a "mistake". It would be hundreds and thousands of conscious choices that she would have chosen to make. All the lying etc etc.
> 
> Could you forgive this? Well that would obviously be your call. If you were to find this out (your wife having a yr long EA/PA) you'd be hard pressed to look at it like a mistake she made. Then again if that's how you concluded it was (a "mistake") then that's your prerogative as well.


Well, of course, a yearlong affair is different than a one night stand. It’s not a mistake. It’s premeditated. That said, I’d have to cross that bridge when we get there. Who was it with? Why did she? What did they do? Where? When? All kind of factors to weigh. I don’t know my reaction. Being honest here. Maybe I’d think “you had a fling, I get one now.”


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I have seen a number of posts where people have said they would be more likely to get past a drunken hook up than an ongoing affair.
> 
> And any time there is a discussion about affairs, it always seems to get brought up that things would depend if it was an actual ongoing affair or drunken hook up at an office party of business trip or a GNO etc.
> 
> ...


My wife rarely to never goes out, she's a great mom and an awesome wife. I don't think she's had a lot of sexual partners before me (hopefully she did) and she's been very loyal to me for over 20 years. When she goes out of town to visit her sister or mother in her hometown, I tell her to have fun, party it up and don't tell me if she gets a little too crazy. Sex (ONS) in itself is not a big deal to me, however, an affair is immediate divorce, no questions asked. But that's just me.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Mybabysgotit said:


> My wife rarely to never goes out, she's a great mom and an awesome wife. I don't think she's had a lot of sexual partners before me (hopefully she did) and she's been very loyal to me for over 20 years. When she goes out of town to visit her sister or mother in her hometown, I tell her to have fun, party it up and don't tell me if she gets a little too crazy. Sex (ONS) in itself is not a big deal to me, however, an affair is immediate divorce, no questions asked. But that's just me.


So if she has sex (ONS where she gets "a little too crazy") why can't she tell you as it's not a "big deal to me"?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I've had a ONS when drunk... but I wasn't married or had a girlfriend...  I have forgiven myself.


I have an instance where I was drunk and remember a 2 second snippet of getting on my waterbed with a girl. Don't know who or remember anything else. Then a certain girl tells a buddy of mine she F'ed me at my house a while back. In today's time, I would be right to file charges against her for rape, I was too drunk to give consent. Hell I do not even know if I enjoyed it. I don't remember anything about it other than climbing on the bed with a girl. I wondered why she was so talkative and friendly toward me, she knew something I did not.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’ll risk the venom of TAM, but if my wife were to have a ONS or an EA/PA, I’d not divorce her immediately. Perhaps not all. There would be a lot of talking. Tears by both. But 28 yrs married. … Yes, people do make mistakes. And that of course applies to deciding to sleep with another. Go ahead. Nail me to the tree. it’s just how i feel.


Are you sure there would be tears by both? At least real ones, would she be crying because she lost her lover?

That’s the thing, one never imagines their SO cheating on them. Then it happens and the betrayed racks their mind trying to figure it out. It is actually quite simple, cheaters cheat and make excuses for their actions to justify it. They have no morals and are of very low character. They also do not love the betrayed spouse that has stayed loyal to them throughout the relationship.

Both would damage my relationship completely.

ONS because what type of gutter trash would actually do this. One I have no desire to be married to.

Affair because my wife would show that she has no love or respect for me.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mybabysgotit said:


> My wife rarely to never goes out, she's a great mom and an awesome wife. I don't think she's had a lot of sexual partners before me (hopefully she did) and she's been very loyal to me for over 20 years. When she goes out of town to visit her sister or mother in her hometown, I tell her to have fun, party it up and don't tell me if she gets a little too crazy. Sex (ONS) in itself is not a big deal to me, however, an affair is immediate divorce, no questions asked. But that's just me.


O. K... Maybe she will not bring HIV or herpes back some day if she gets a little too crazy.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> Are you sure there would be tears by both? At least real ones, would she be crying because she lost her lover?
> 
> That’s the thing, one never imagines their SO cheating on them. Then it happens and the betrayed racks their mind trying to figure it out. It is actually quite simple, cheaters cheat and make excuses for their actions to justify it. They have no morals and are of very low character. They also do not love the betrayed spouse that has stayed loyal to them throughout the relationship.
> 
> ...


Don’t hold back. Having not gone thru this, pure speculation.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Don’t hold back. Having not gone thru this, pure speculation.


I know it’s speculation, not holding back. 😁


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Both scenarios would be equal to me. Trust is gone either way.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> I know it’s speculation, not holding back. 😁


Oh I know


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’ll risk the venom of TAM, but if my wife were to have a ONS or an EA/PA, I’d not divorce her immediately. Perhaps not all. There would be a lot of talking. Tears by both. But 28 yrs married. … Yes, people do make mistakes. And that of course applies to deciding to sleep with another. Go ahead. Nail me to the tree. it’s just how i feel.


I don’t think you need to be ahem, nailed, for your viewpoint. I thought I would immediately leave and never look back; right up until it actually happened to me. Then I thought all of the things you have stated and was desperate to save the marriage at the time. 

Unfortunately all the effort in the world many times cannot fix what they broke inside of you, pieces you didn’t even know could break until they did, and are impossible to mend with the person who did it.

I guess at this point it’s more difficult for me to understand how successful reconciliations, those unicorns of actual happily reconciled people, could do it. How the BS could overcome that… that’s the only mystery to me now.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think you need to be ahem, nailed, for your viewpoint. I thought I would immediately leave and never look back; right up until it actually happened to me. Then I thought all of the things you have stated and was desperate to save the marriage at the time.
> 
> Unfortunately all the effort in the world many times cannot fix what they broke inside of you, pieces you didn’t even know could break until they did, and are impossible to mend with the person who did it.
> 
> I guess at this point it’s more difficult for me to understand how successful reconciliations, those unicorns of actual happily reconciled people, could do it. How the BS could overcome that… that’s the only mystery to me now.


Thanks for the frank and honest reply. Sorry it went south for you. I'm sure it had to be extremely difficult. I honestly don't know how I'd react if it happens. I mean, she's leaving early Friday for a girls' getaway (college friends) to Wisconsin. We are near Chicago. 

I've speculated, "wow, what if she returns home Sunday night and is acting odd, says we need to talk, and tells me 'We were at this tavern, these guys who went to college with us long ago were there, nice to see them, one started hitting on me and ...."

How would i react? Would i flip out? Get angry? Get real quiet? I have no idea. I mean I don't expect to hear that, however, as we know, things like that do happen. She's very attractive. We are married 28 years, it would be flattering for her. I could see a guy hitting on her. I hope she wouldn't do anything, but one never knows in a given situation. ... Anyhow, thanks for the reply. well written and thought out.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Thanks for the frank and honest reply. Sorry it went south for you. I'm sure it had to be extremely difficult. I honestly don't know how I'd react if it happens. I mean, she's leaving early Friday for a girls' getaway (college friends) to Wisconsin. We are near Chicago.
> 
> I've speculated, "wow, what if she returns home Sunday night and is acting odd, says we need to talk, and tells me 'We were at this tavern, these guys who went to college with us long ago were there, nice to see them, one started hitting on me and ...."
> 
> How would i react? Would i flip out? Get angry? Get real quiet? I have no idea. I mean I don't expect to hear that, however, as we know, things like that do happen. She's very attractive. We are married 28 years, it would be flattering for her. I could see a guy hitting on her. I hope she wouldn't do anything, but one never knows in a given situation. ... Anyhow, thanks for the reply. well written and thought out.


Why would she tell you if something happens this weekend as you told her not to? You also said that if she had a ONS it wouldn't be a big deal as it's just sex.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

sideways said:


> Why would she tell you if something happens this weekend as you told her not to? You also said that if she had a ONS it wouldn't be a big deal as it's just sex.


When did i tell her not to? I think you've got me confused with another poster. I've never said ONS was not a big deal as it's just sex. I said it may be easier to forgive, if that were to happen.

Thanks.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It’s interesting that a lot of these “what if” questions are aimed at the betrayed spouses, but I sometimes wonder about the wayward spouses and their knee-jerk reactions/hysterical bonding when they’re caught cheating. It’s usually the caught ones that beg for another chance and they’ll do anything etc etc…

They’ll do anything to avoid a divorce, the public shaming, the lifestyle change and overall disruption to their life but is that the same as someone who wants to reconcile? Especially if they have money, the desperate attempts of the wayward spouse to do anything to keep the marriage is really bizarre to me, and phony. So a week ago, you were banging another guy/woman but this week, you want to stay married? Right. I know reconciliation takes time…true reconciliation but that’s one point I wonder about. The knee-jerk reaction of the wayward one and as long as they were having an affair in secret, they weren’t interested in putting in all that effort into the marriage. But now that it’s been exposed, they run back to their spouse clinging and begging for a second chance? Maybe it’s what cake eaters do - which seems to be what affairs are really about - having a stable relationship on the one hand, and the wild carefree affair happening on the other.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> It’s interesting that a lot of these “what if” questions are aimed at the betrayed spouses, but I sometimes wonder about the wayward spouses and their knee-jerk reactions/hysterical bonding when they’re caught cheating. It’s usually the caught ones that beg for another chance and they’ll do anything etc etc…
> 
> They’ll do anything to avoid a divorce, the public shaming, the lifestyle change and overall disruption to their life but is that the same as someone who wants to reconcile? Especially if they have money, the desperate attempts of the wayward spouse to do anything to keep the marriage is really bizarre to me, and phony. So a week ago, you were banging another guy/woman but this week, you want to stay married? Right. I know reconciliation takes time…true reconciliation but that’s one point I wonder about. The knee-jerk reaction of the wayward one and as long as they were having an affair in secret, they weren’t interested in putting in all that effort into the marriage. But now that it’s been exposed, they run back to their spouse clinging and begging for a second chance? Maybe it’s what cake eaters do - which seems to be what affairs are really about - having a stable relationship on the one hand, and the wild carefree affair happening on the other.


"Cake eaters" ... May i borrow that term? Sums it up nicely.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> "Cake eaters" ... May i borrow that term? Sums it up nicely.


I learned it on here lol 😅


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> I learned it on here lol 😅


Btw, Marie Antoinette never said “let them eat cake” Learned that in Paris.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Longtime Hubby said:


> When did i tell her not to? I think you've got me confused with another poster. I've never said ONS was not a big deal as it's just sex. I said it may be easier to forgive, if that were to happen.
> 
> Thanks.


My apologies!!

Yes thinking you were mybabysgotit.

My bad🙏


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

sideways said:


> My apologies!!
> 
> Yes thinking you were mybabysgotit.
> 
> My bad🙏


No prob! Easy to do here with so many posting replies.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Thanks for the frank and honest reply. Sorry it went south for you. I'm sure it had to be extremely difficult. I honestly don't know how I'd react if it happens. I mean, she's leaving early Friday for a girls' getaway (college friends) to Wisconsin. We are near Chicago.
> 
> I've speculated, "wow, what if she returns home Sunday night and is acting odd, says we need to talk, and tells me 'We were at this tavern, these guys who went to college with us long ago were there, nice to see them, one started hitting on me and ...."
> 
> How would i react? Would i flip out? Get angry? Get real quiet? I have no idea. I mean I don't expect to hear that, however, as we know, things like that do happen. She's very attractive. We are married 28 years, it would be flattering for her. I could see a guy hitting on her. I hope she wouldn't do anything, but one never knows in a given situation. ... Anyhow, thanks for the reply. well written and thought out.


I think the most important thing to know is that you survive, you move forward and you move on. No matter how terrible infidelity is, you will get through it and come out even better if you have the grit to do so. There is a certain peace in that knowledge… But I don’t know if one can accomplish that peace without having walked the plank, so maybe the point is moot. Lol

You can’t control what she does, but she’s likely proven over time that she’s trustworthy… and if it turns out she isn’t by some chance, you’d get through it and be ok. So I don’t think you need to know what you’d think or say, I don’t think you could know. But just know that you’d be ok.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Some people can forgive infidelity, some can't.

And neither is wrong. Just different.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Some people can forgive infidelity, some can't.
> 
> And neither is wrong. Just different.


Ain't it the truth, if my wife cheated, I would never touch her body in that way again. She would be like biohazardous waste to me.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

sideways said:


> So if she has sex (ONS where she gets "a little too crazy") why can't she tell you as it's not a "big deal to me"?


I'm under the mantra of what I don't know, won't hurt me.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> O. K... Maybe she will not bring HIV or herpes back some day if she gets a little too crazy.


lol...I didn't marry an idiot. She's a bright girl, bright enough to take care of herself, but thanks for giving her that little disrespect. At least it gave me a laugh.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’ll risk the venom of TAM, but if my wife were to have a ONS or an EA/PA, I’d not divorce her immediately. Perhaps not all. There would be a lot of talking. Tears by both. But 28 yrs married. … Yes, people do make mistakes. And that of course applies to deciding to sleep with another. Go ahead. Nail me to the tree. it’s just how i feel.


I absolutely agree with you. Why in the heck would you throw away 20 plus years of marriage over some fun.. Now, when it's an affair, that entails lies, deceit, manipulation, etc., she's no longer the person I married.

Don't worry, I took the venom for you...)


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I absolutely agree with you. Why in the heck would you throw away 20 plus years of marriage over some fun.. Now, when it's an affair, that entails lies, deceit, manipulation, etc., she's no longer the person I married.
> 
> Don't worry, I took the venom for you...)


Gracias


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I absolutely agree with you. Why in the heck would you throw away 20 plus years of marriage over some fun.. Now, when it's an affair, that entails lies, deceit, manipulation, etc., she's no longer the person I married.
> 
> Don't worry, I took the venom for you...)


Again it is the adulterer that is throwing away the marriage.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mybabysgotit said:


> lol...I didn't marry an idiot. She's a bright girl, bright enough to take care of herself, but thanks for giving her that little disrespect. At least it gave me a laugh.


A bright girl would not commit adultery to begin with.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> A bright girl would not commit adultery to begin with.


Sadly being bright doesn't mean a person isn't broken.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

I am blessed to have a wonderful wife. I am glad to have never experienced this issue.

But to answer the question, I consider both forms of betrayal "unacceptable." My wife knows as much.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I am blessed to have a wonderful wife. I am glad to have never experienced this issue.
> 
> But to answer the question, I consider both forms of betrayal "unacceptable." My wife knows as much.


We’ve talked of this in “what if you” terms


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## Works (Apr 3, 2016)

I'd say EA and PA.. don't the EA usually turn physical? I asked my boyfriend and he says physical would be worse, but both are just as bad and not wished upon.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

*Deidre* said:


> It’s interesting that a lot of these “what if” questions are aimed at the betrayed spouses, but I sometimes wonder about the wayward spouses and their knee-jerk reactions/hysterical bonding when they’re caught cheating. It’s usually the caught ones that beg for another chance and they’ll do anything etc etc…
> 
> They’ll do anything to avoid a divorce, the public shaming, the lifestyle change and overall disruption to their life but is that the same as someone who wants to reconcile? Especially if they have money, the desperate attempts of the wayward spouse to do anything to keep the marriage is really bizarre to me, and phony. So a week ago, you were banging another guy/woman but this week, you want to stay married? Right. I know reconciliation takes time…true reconciliation but that’s one point I wonder about. The knee-jerk reaction of the wayward one and as long as they were having an affair in secret, they weren’t interested in putting in all that effort into the marriage. But now that it’s been exposed, they run back to their spouse clinging and begging for a second chance? Maybe it’s what cake eaters do - which seems to be what affairs are really about - having a stable relationship on the one hand, and the wild carefree affair happening on the other.


This gets discussed frequently here but most WS’s don’t want to divorce,, they just want some extra in addition to the marriage. 

if they wanted to be free of the marriage, they would have already left.

Also, as contradictory as this sounds, most affairs are dependent on the marriage.

affairs are all about the secret meetings and hot steamy sex without all the other baggage that come from relationships.

The WW and the AP only want to have hot porn sex. They don’t want to deal with bills and car payments and dealing with dirty laundry or changing flat tires in the rain or someone leaving their dirty socks and underwear on the floor.

Most WS’s don’t actually want to be with the AP fulltime and most AP’s don’t want the WS fulltime.

when the WS gets busted, 9 times out of 10 they lose the AP as well.

So you bring up a good flip side of this as well - does one form of affair effect how much the WS tries to hang on to the marriage and how much effort are they willing to put into it?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife came to me and told me would have an affair but it would be fine, because she would come back to me.

And she did.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> My wife came to me and told me would have an affair but it would be fine, because she would come back to me.
> 
> And she did.


We differ so much Matt. That would have been the last time I ever gave her the time of day had she uttered those words to me, no matter any other conciliatory facts. She would have been dead to me on the spot. Maybe I don't have the frontal lobe needed to override the amygdala, maybe I'm unevolved and too prone to follow the reptilian mind, but it is who I am.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

As many have said, both would be deal breakers. However, to answer your question - an affair would be worse. With an affair she doesn't have the excuse that it was a one time thing. She is deliberately and disrespectfully cheating on you over and over and over behind your back. To me that is much worse than being drunk and making a one time poor decision.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> This gets discussed frequently here but most WS’s don’t want to divorce,, they just want some extra in addition to the marriage.
> 
> if they wanted to be free of the marriage, they would have already left.
> 
> ........*So you bring up a good flip side of this as well - does one form of affair effect how much the WS tries to hang on to the marriage and how much effort are they willing to put into it?*


Interesting question. 

I would say that the WS who has an affair is looking for intimate emotional connection and the WS who is looking for a ONS is looking more for sex and the felling of being sexually desirable. 

I think the importance of keeping their marriage is situational to the WS. 

If the WS looking for intimacy and emotional connection finds it outside of marriage, they will know that they can find that in our out of a marriage and that it is probably lacking in their marriage and that their affair will make it less likely they will get the intimacy within their marriage. So I would see that spouse as less likely to try to hang onto the marriage.

The WS who has a ONS on the other hand, was just looking for no strings attached sex or for feeling sexually desirable and having someone pay them the attention they feel they deserve. A divorce would mess up their finances, and that could put a damper on their ability to fund the travel, motels, dinners, drinks required for a ONS. Similarly, it would cause someone to always be watching and checking up on them, which would also put a damper on the ability to get out for the ONS.

Looking at it from the perspective of the WS, I would say the PA or EA WS would be less likely to fight for their marriage as they have had their cake and eaten it and know they can get more.

Both are disgusting behaviors that show no commitment to marriage, but people are human and do stupid things.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

A drunken hook up or an actual EA/PA?
There is no difference.
If a partner truly loves you, no one could ever steal that partner away, drunk, sober or whatever.
If I discovered my wife had a one night stand, a hook up or had or was having an affair, she`d be out the front door followed by all her stuff in bin bags within 5 minutes, I kid you not.
Infidelity by a partner is a form of domestic abuse.
Infidelity always hurts. It’s a betrayal of trust, love and identity. Anger, pain, fear and humiliation are completely normal responses to unfaithfulness regarding the betrayed partner.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> I have seen a number of posts where people have said they would be more likely to get past a drunken hook up than an ongoing affair.
> 
> And any time there is a discussion about affairs, it always seems to get brought up that things would depend if it was an actual ongoing affair or drunken hook up at an office party of business trip or a GNO etc.
> 
> ...


Have not read any of the replies yet, just answering myself after reading the original post.

I am of the same mind in that for me, a drunken one night stand type of affair would be worse for me. Of course twice nothing is still nothing, and any kind of affair would end in divorce, so there's that I guess.

Like you, I would tend to view a partner who had a ONS as someone who was extremely unsafe to be married to. Very reckless with the relationship. Going from 0 to Affair in a very short amount of time demonstrates a person who is extremely bad at risk assessment with very little self control, and extremely impulsive. The seeming randomness would suggest that no situation would be safe, and then one would have to consider what other impulsive and reckless things would this person be susceptible to.

The main difference I see between a ONS and a full blown EA/PA is one of Randomness vs Calculation. Randomness is much harder to defend the relationship against, especially when that randomness is coming from within.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I have seen a number of posts where people have said they would be more likely to get past a drunken hook up than an ongoing affair.
> 
> And any time there is a discussion about affairs, it always seems to get brought up that things would depend if it was an actual ongoing affair or drunken hook up at an office party of business trip or a GNO etc.
> 
> ...


Does is matter, don't do it in the first place.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> A bright girl would not commit adultery to begin with.


What the heck does a bright girl have to do with adultery? So only dumb girls commit adultery? kind of absurd statement.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Mybabysgotit said:


> What the heck does a bright girl have to do with adultery? So only dumb girls commit adultery? kind of absurd statement.


not limited to certain girls


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mybabysgotit said:


> What the heck does a bright girl have to do with adultery? So only dumb girls commit adultery? kind of absurd statement.


Screwing around on your spouse ain't too smart.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> Screwing around on your spouse ain't too smart.


People are human


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> People are human


Nah, some are simply animals following instincts.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Nah, some are simply animals following instincts.


Wow. Okay. let he who is without sin …,


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Wow. Okay. let he who is without sin …,


Not without sin (in the broader sense), but peeved off by enabling attitudes towards adultery. The more adultery is normalized or excused, the more people it will destroy.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Not without sin (in the broader sense), but peeved off by enabling attitudes towards adultery. The more adultery is normalized or excused, the more people it will destroy.


perhaps.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> People are human


Right and people do incredibly stupid and sometimes evil things.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Wow. Okay. let he who is without sin …,


Has nothing to do with casting stones. He is correct in his statement.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Not without sin (in the broader sense), but peeved off by enabling attitudes towards adultery. The more adultery is normalized or excused, the more people it will destroy.


Exactly. 


Dictum Veritas said:


> Nah, some are simply animals following instincts.


I see this all too well, so does anyone else who works in law enforcement. People make themselves targets of other people all the time. They do stupid things and then wonder why something happened to them. 

It is like sticking my hand inside a fence and being upset the dog bit me. Dogs gonna do what it does, same with many people. Whether it is because their brain does not comprehend what they are doing is wrong and hurts others, or fact they do not care. They do what they want and to hell with those it leaves in their wake.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Nah, some are simply animals following instincts.


We are all animals my friend, don't forget tha, t cause once you do, you'll think nature doesn't apply.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mybabysgotit said:


> We are all animals my friend, don't forget tha, t cause once you do, you'll think nature doesn't apply.


He knows that, but not all just follow their instincts. He was saying some people just do what they want without the humanity factor to rein in their impulses.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

*Which would damage your love and esteem for your partner the most - a drunken hook up or an actual EA/PA?*

Well, this question to me is very much akin to asking "Would you like to die by decapitation or drowning?"

Life is too short to be dealing with people who cheat.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Asterix said:


> *Which would damage your love and esteem for your partner the most - a drunken hook up or an actual EA/PA?*
> 
> Well, this question to me is very much akin to asking "Would you like to die by decapitation or drowning?"
> 
> Life is too short to be dealing with people who cheat.


Decap as it would be very fast with guillotine


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Decap as it would be very fast with guillotine


Yeah but I would take as many of the ba$turds with me as I could! I'd be a cross of Scarface and the guy on Aliens when he is shooting them as they fall out of the ceiling...Oh! You want some of this!

They will have to get me between mag changes.


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## sinhappens (5 mo ago)

Respect? On that question, the EA/PA is much worse. It's deliberate and intentional and over a long period of time. It involves knowing dishonesty and repeated betrayal.

People drink. Sometimes too much. Sometimes more than they intended. It doesn't have to be sloppy, knee-walking drunk to end up in a ONS. It merely needs to be just enough to weaken boundaries a little. Just enough to allow a sinful person to succumb to temptation. Especially someone already struggling.

We are all sinful people. We all succumb to some kind of temptation. We are all capable of doing things we abhor. The stack of psych studies is high as a mountain which show that normal, decent people are capable of all manner of horrible acts under certain circumstances. Anyone who claims they aren't a similarly flawed, sinful person is guilty of hubris (not to mention a science denier  )

Now, I imagine that the WS who had a ONS after drinking will most likely tell the BS that they were drunk on their ass. Might even claim to have blacked out. In any event, the amount of alcohol will be exaggerated. Because that's what flawed people do when trying to minimize the consequences that face them for their actions.

But a long term affair is worse than a ONS regardless of alcohol. Adding the alcohol doesn't make the ONS worse.


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