# are there female incels?



## nospam99 (Apr 26, 2018)

I assume most people know. But for those who don't, incel means involuntarily celibate. LOL because it's a euphemism for wanting sex but not 'getting any'.

Thinking about life today, it struck me that I've only 'heard' (and only online) 'the incel condition' discussed in the context of men. For some (many?) men in late 20th and early 21st century America, it's just 'a fact of life'. That got me wondering. Are there incel women? I assume so. Why don't we hear as much about it as incel men? Fewer women affected? It doesn't bother them enough to complain about it? etc? , My 'enquiring mind wants to know'.


----------



## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

They tend to be cat ladies and their first names tend to be Karen.
I think male incels tend to be young males, but female incels tend to be over 35.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There are women that don’t/can’t get what they want but it is a different genre of Incel. 

A male InCel doesn’t have or hasn’t developed the traits and characteristics to where he can’t get with women sexually despite really wanting to. 

Conversely, Pretty much any woman can get sex whenever she wants as long as she doesn’t ask for much else in terms of a relationship or commitment etc so it’s not really an apples to apples comparison. 

What happens more in women is some may struggle to find a relationship that works for them with a man that they find appealing or acceptable and so they more less choose to be sexually celibate. 

Since the sexual celibacy is a conscious choice even though they ‘could’ have sex, they are not on the same plane as a male Incel. 

A male Incel basically cannot get either a relationship or sexual activity with any women.

The female counter part could get NSA/ONS/FWB with a variety of men if she so chose, but struggles to find an acceptable relationship with a man she finds appealing.


----------



## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Fixed that for you.



oldshirt said:


> Pretty much any woman can get *BAD AND OR DANGEROUS* sex whenever she wants ...


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

UAArchangel said:


> They tend to be cat ladies and their first names tend to be Karen.
> I think male incels tend to be young males, but female incels tend to be over 35.


If you can get past the stench of kitty litter and boxed wine you could score!!!


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Red Sonja said:


> Fixed that for you.


Yeah that’s probably a good description of their options. 

……but those are still options for them. 

for male InCels however, even bad and dangerous sex are out of reach.


----------



## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah that’s probably a good description of their options.
> 
> ……but those are still options for them.
> 
> for male InCels however, even bad and dangerous sex are out of reach.


Not if they have access to hookers. 😁


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

So maybe a better way to word this and add to the lexicon, some males are involuntarily sexually celibate. 

A woman can always have sex but may be involuntarily without a relationship or unable to obtain some kind of sexual relationship with a man she finds desirable.

She may be involuntarily single (shall we call this InSing?).

But her actual sexual celibacy is by choice, so by definition she is not an InCel.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> So maybe a better way to word this and add to the lexicon, some males are involuntarily sexually celibate.
> 
> A woman can always have sex but may be involuntarily without a relationship or unable to obtain some kind of sexual relationship with a man she finds desirable.
> 
> ...


I think you give to much credence to the idea that ANY woman can have sex ANY time she wants. I don't believe this is true.


----------



## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Numb26 said:


> I think you give to much credence to the idea that ANY woman can have sex ANY time she wants. I don't believe this is true.


Unless they pay for hookers! 🤣


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> There are women that don’t/can’t get what they want but it is a different genre of Incel.
> 
> A male InCel doesn’t have or hasn’t developed the traits and characteristics to where he can’t get with women sexually despite really wanting to.
> 
> ...


Can these men not get any women, or just not the women they want?

Those are two different discussions.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Can these men not get any women, or just not the women they want?
> 
> Those are two different discussions.


Any women


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Any women


So incels have no standards?

Surely they draw the line somewhere? When one of those losers goes on a rampage its not because he can't get an Omega Moo. He wants the hot women.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Slow Hand said:


> Not if they have access to hookers. 😁


A lot of them can’t even do that. 

In order to get a hooker, you have to put the game controller down, climb up out of your mom’s basement and leave the house. You still have to approach and talk to a woman and communicate your wants…..

And you have to have money. 

And, the hooker still has to agree to it. 


A lot of the incels aren’t able or aren’t willing to even do that.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> So incels have no standards?
> 
> Surely they draw the line somewhere? When one of those losers goes on a rampage its not because he can't get an Omega Moo. He wants the hot women.


The loser goes on the rampage WHEN he realizes that he can't even get an Omega Moo. Before that he still had some false hope.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Numb26 said:


> I think you give to much credence to the idea that ANY woman can have sex ANY time she wants. I don't believe this is true.



Have you ever been to a bar at closing time?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Have you ever been to a bar at closing time?


Ah yes, the "beer goggle variant". Forgot about that!


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Can these men not get any women, or just not the women they want?
> 
> Those are two different discussions.


A lot of them can’t get any women,, even prostitutes as I noted above.

Men aren’t hypergamous like women, it’s not an issue of standards and holding out for the ones they want. 

It’s that many do not have the personal traits and characteristics that make them acceptable to women nor do they have the social and interpersonal skills that allow them to emerge from their mom’s basement and approach and interrelate to a woman on a personal level to where an intimate or even purely transactional connection can be made.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> So incels have no standards?
> 
> Surely they draw the line somewhere? When one of those losers goes on a rampage its not because he can't get an Omega Moo. He wants the hot women.


I disagree that it is about standards or wanting the hot chicks.

Many of ones that went on rampages typically could not get anywhere with ANY women. 

Sure they would have prefered to get with the hot chicks. 

But their issues were such that they couldn’t achieve any kind of personal interaction with any woman.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> So incels have no standards?


It’s not about standards one way or another. 

The incel’s inability to connect is not based on his own selectivity or choice…… it is an actual inability. It is truely involuntary on his part. 

Some of them can put in the work and lose or gain weight, dress and groom better, develop their social and interpersonal skills and eventually connect with someone. 

But others are so dysfunctional and broken and have so many mental and personality disorders that they simply can’t achieve that level of contact with a woman,, even a paid sex worker.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

nospam99 said:


> I assume most people know. But for those who don't, incel means involuntarily celibate. LOL because it's a euphemism for wanting sex but not 'getting any'.
> 
> Thinking about life today, it struck me that I've only 'heard' (and only online) 'the incel condition' discussed in the context of men. For some (many?) men in late 20th and early 21st century America, it's just 'a fact of life'. That got me wondering. Are there incel women? I assume so. Why don't we hear as much about it as incel men? Fewer women affected? It doesn't bother them enough to complain about it? etc? , My 'enquiring mind wants to know'.


Yes, of course there are. A lot. But way worse than being an incel is being used for sex and discarted, and it happens a lot too (dont come say handsome men do that, bc i see ugly men doing way more).

Maybe bc men focus more on the sexual aspect, while women focus on the emotional and lack of relationships aspect (or lack of).

I see many men feel entitled to pretty women while do nothing to develop themselves and then complain and complain 🙄😪


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> The incel’s inability to connect is not based on his own selectivity or choice…… it is an actual inability. It is truely involuntary on his part.


And this above is what separates women from incels. 

A woman’s sexual celibacy is based on her selectivity and standards, so that it is not a true “involuntary” celibacy issue.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

moon7 said:


> Yes, of course there are. A lot. But way worse than being an incel is being used for sex and discarted, and it happens a lot too (dont come say handsome men do that, bc i see ugly men doing way more).
> 
> Maybe bc men focus more on the sexual aspect, while women focus on the emotional and lack of relationships aspect (or lack of).
> 
> I see many men feel entitled to pretty women while do nothing to develop themselves and then complain and complain 🙄😪


Ok but by saying women are used for sex kind of proves the point that women can still choose to have sex even if it’s not under the circumstances or the people for which they would prefer. 

They may be involuntarily single or without the person or relationship they prefer, but their sexual celibacy is by their own choice and selectivity.

An actual male InCel does not that that choice or selectivity. A male InCel can not have sex with ANY any woman, regardless of his own preferences. 

A male incel and a female who chooses sexual celibacy over hooking up with men she is not attracted to is not an apples to apples comparison.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> A lot of them can’t even do that.
> 
> In order to get a hooker, you have to put the game controller down, climb up out of your mom’s basement and leave the house. You still have to approach and talk to a woman and communicate your wants…..
> 
> ...


So in other words... They aren't "involuntary" celibates. If they put some effort into improving themselves, they COULD meet women. 

And I agree with @lifeistooshort . 99% of those so called incels wouldn't accept a woman who is less than what they feel entitled to. Don't believe me? Take a trip to one of those incel sites. They incessantly and ruthlessly criticize overweight, unattractive, and older single women.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> And this above is what separates women from incels.
> 
> A woman’s sexual celibacy is based on her selectivity and standards, so that it is not a true “involuntary” celibacy issue.


If a woman is real ugly or boring she wont find sex either.

Even most incels have an ugly female friend who is into them.

My brother was an incel until 1 or 2 years ago (he is 31 now) He would say women didnt give attention to him and *****, but in reality he was a loser who didnt flirt or go after anyone or worked on himself, while having a horrible humor and not a briliant personality either, and i personally knew women who were into him (but i was sure he didnt want them). When he tried for real he found a girlfriend. He is on his 2nd serious girlfriend and had some tinder dates in between. All very pretty women. But he self sabotage his relationships, who knows why. I think he doesnt forgive them for not being perfect.

Anyways, for me most incels are voruntarily: or by not working on themselves, or by overlooking women in their own level.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> So in other words... They aren't "involuntary" celibates. If they put some effort into improving themselves, they COULD meet women.
> 
> And I agree with @lifeistooshort . 99% of those so called incels wouldn't accept a woman who is less than what they feel entitled to. Don't believe me? Take a trip to one of those incel sites. They incessantly and ruthlessly criticize overweight, unattractive, and older single women.


I agree. Let all the incels have the overweight, unattractive and boring women!


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Ok but by saying women are used for sex kind of proves the point that women can still choose to have sex even if it’s not under the circumstances or the people for which they would prefer.


No, it doesnt. Its unrelated. I just added there that there is worse then incel.

As we say here: "one thing is one thing and other thing is other thing".


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I agree. Let all the incels have the overweight, unattractive and boring women!


They despise them like the plague.

And if they have sex with them they dont see them as human, only sex and disgard.

Ive seen it happen again and again in real life (everybody has seen it).


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Nope. I'd say incel women are so rare that they almost do not exist. The most unappealing women ever can still find SOMEONE to hook up with, especially if they are willing to compromise morals, standards, and self respect in order to do it. The male equivalent of these ladies isn't getting laid at all. That includes paying for sex, they won't even do that.


----------



## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

A lot of incels suffer from some form of autism. They can't speak the social language that will get a guy laid, even from a heffer, so they're stuck. Some can learn and overcome it with a lot of work, others are lazy and just get pissed off. Autism often affects women differently so while women incels are out there they're not as numerous.

I would have thought Rumer Willis was an incel as she looks like Jay Leno in drag but even she just got knocked up. Go figure.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

moon7 said:


> They despise them like the plague.
> 
> And if they have sex with them they dont see them as human, only sex and disgard.
> 
> Ive seen it happen again and again in real life (everybody has seen it).


They have to learn to play in their own league.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

nospam99 said:


> I assume most people know. But for those who don't, incel means involuntarily celibate. LOL because it's a euphemism for wanting sex but not 'getting any'.
> 
> Thinking about life today, it struck me that I've only 'heard' (and only online) 'the incel condition' discussed in the context of men. For some (many?) men in late 20th and early 21st century America, it's just 'a fact of life'. That got me wondering. Are there incel women? I assume so. Why don't we hear as much about it as incel men? Fewer women affected? It doesn't bother them enough to complain about it? etc? , My 'enquiring mind wants to know'.


I suppose I qualified as a female incel when I was married, as I didn't choose to be sexless at the time. However, I chose to stay and be guilt-tripped for not breaking up an otherwise "good" marriage. I didn't speak up about it, it wasn't exactly something to boast about and I didn't think it was reason enough to divorce even though I was unhappy. 

There are other women in that situation, but it's a numbers game really considering...
Some women chose celibacy rather than have sex with men they don't find attractive
More women tend to be LD than men and simply don't have the drive to bother looking for sex. 



oldshirt said:


> A lot of them can’t even do that.
> 
> In order to get a hooker, you have to put the game controller down, climb up out of your mom’s basement and leave the house. You still have to approach and talk to a woman and communicate your wants…..
> 
> ...


Huh, even prostitutes have standards, who'd have thunk it?


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Can these men not get any women, or just not the women they want?
> 
> Those are two different discussions.


My take on it is some men ( I don't know any of them personally ) seem lost in their parent's basement on the internet. They never cultivated or learned any social skills, so have few friends IRL. Since they don't socialize where women are, they never learn how to have a conversation or interact in any useful way. 

That causes them to blame ALL women rather than their own personality. Which of course just makes it worse for them to ever have any relationship with a woman. What woman would want to date such a pathetic person?


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> I agree. Let all the incels have the overweight, unattractive and boring women!


Lol. You know what I meant. 

We all can't have the former hs cheerleader/ Instagram model. Once they figure out that piece, it'll open up their world to possibilities.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> I suppose I qualified as a female incel when I was married, as I didn't choose to be sexless at the time. However, I chose to stay and be guilt-tripped for not breaking up an otherwise "good" marriage. I didn't speak up about it, it wasn't exactly something to boast about and I didn't think it was reason enough to divorce even though I was unhappy.
> 
> There are other women in that situation, but it's a numbers game really considering...
> Some women chose celibacy rather than have sex with men they don't find attractive
> ...


That is true!


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> They have to learn to play in their own league.




This is my brother, btw 😂

Zero reason for not dating cute girls since he was a kid other than his own lack of effort on himself and into finding girlfriends and puting himself out there.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> So in other words... They aren't "involuntary" celibates. If they put some effort into improving themselves, they COULD meet women.
> 
> And I agree with @lifeistooshort . 99% of those so called incels wouldn't accept a woman who is less than what they feel entitled to. Don't believe me? Take a trip to one of those incel sites. They incessantly and ruthlessly criticize overweight, unattractive, and older single women.


Yes some can improve their looks and social and interpersonal skills that they can get with a woman.

But some can’t even do that. 

And yes incels can be brutal on overweight and unattractive women on their sites - but it is because the unattractive women are REJECTING THEM TOO. 

Sure there is probably a few incels that if they were more realistic in their expectations would have more success.

But what separates a true InCel from women is the true InCel truly CAN’T get with any women.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> Lol. You know what I meant.
> 
> We all can't have the former hs cheerleader/ Instagram model. Once they figure out that piece, it'll open up their world to possibilities.


Thicker women I can deal with but unattractive just takes the wind out of the sails!


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> So incels have no standards?
> 
> Surely they draw the line somewhere? When one of those losers goes on a rampage its not because he can't get an Omega Moo. He wants the hot women.


What's an Omega Moo? I tried looking it up, but just got links to fraternities.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> What's an Omega Moo? I tried looking it up, but just got links to fraternities.


LMAO Never seen Revenge of the Nerds?


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Yes some can improve their looks and social and interpersonal skills that they can get with a woman.
> 
> But some can’t even do that.
> 
> ...


Ha, serious sour grapes then. Well, we're no better than other animals. The strong survive, the weak do not breed and defective genes die out.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> LMAO Never seen Revenge of the Nerds?


Yes, but that was a long time ago and I was a kid, so most of the jokes flew over my head.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

I would even add that for ugly men its WAY EASIER to find a woman above his own beauty level than it is for a woman.

Women are way more forgiving about looks then men are, and I personally know SO MANY women who LOOOOVE dating ugly men 😂😂😂


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> Yes, but that was a long time ago and I was a kid, so most of the jokes flew over my head.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> What's an Omega Moo? I tried looking it up, but just got links to fraternities.


@Numb26 got it!

If you haven’t seen Revenge of the Nerds you should. Make sure it's the unedited version.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Recently I have been made aware of something that I honestly never believed but apparently, it's true. To a horny enough man, any vagina with a pulse will do which means I don't think female incels exist.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> Recently I have been made aware of something that I honestly never believed but apparently, it's true. To a horny enough man, any vagina with a pulse will do which means I don't think female incels exist.


I've never been that horny! 🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lila said:


> Recently I have been made aware of something that I honestly never believed but apparently, it's true. To a horny enough man, any vagina with a pulse will do which means I don't think female incels exist.


I'd rather be celibate then get with a nasty guy.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> View attachment 94803


I'm sure all those men dated and married 😂


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

moon7 said:


> If a woman is real ugly or boring she wont find sex either.


A real ugly woman will not be able to find the relationship she wants with the kind of man she wants. 

But she can still find men that will have sex with her as long as she doesn’t ask for anything else. 

This is going to be cringe worthy and uncomfortable to read, but there are severely handicapped women in care facilities that are discovered to be pregnant and comatose old ladies in nursing homes that have contracted STIs while in the care of the facility. 

Now these are criminal acts by male staff members and negligently unsupervised male residents of the facilities that are climbing into bed with them, but the point is there is really no level too low where some men won’t go even if it involves criminal acts on their part.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Lila said:


> Recently I have been made aware of something that I honestly never believed but apparently, it's true. To a horny enough man, any vagina with a pulse will do which means I don't think female incels exist.


Please, un-aware from crazy land and come back to normal, bc thats not true.

My husband is horny and has me here and he rather watch some porn. Imagine a man who doesnt even have a woman waiting for him 24-7 😂😂😂


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

moon7 said:


> I would even add that for ugly men its WAY EASIER to find a woman above his own beauty level than it is for a woman.
> 
> Women are way more forgiving about looks then men are, and I personally know SO MANY women who LOOOOVE dating ugly men 😂😂😂


That is true, a lot of women use that as a dating strategy to hedge their bets against him cheating. However, after seeing man ugly men inside out, it's rather pointless.


Numb26 said:


> View attachment 94803


See this is a good example... those women would probably look way better with good haircuts and styling and more neutral facial expressions. Then they might even exceed him.

I've found many men who complain about not having attractive-enough dating options vastly overrate their level of attractiveness. They love to pad their "SMV" with their financial status, then complains they're pulling women who just want their money 😂


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> That is true, a lot of women use that as a dating strategy to hedge their bets against him cheating. However, after seeing man ugly men inside out, it's rather pointless.


Noooo, i dont mean like strategy. I was one of them miself!!! Then my head straightened a bit better. They really like less handsome men!!!

I see women trully falling IN LOVE.

There are women who use as strategy, but i dont see them, never met one.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'd rather be celibate then get with a nasty guy.


And many incels would rather get with a nast chick than be celibate, but they can’t even get the nasty chick. 

You are at least choosing to not be with a nasty guy. 

The incels don’t have that choice.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Yes some can improve their looks and social and interpersonal skills that they can get with a woman.
> 
> But some can’t even do that.


Why not?



> And yes incels can be brutal on overweight and unattractive women on their sites - but it is because the unattractive women are REJECTING THEM TOO.


Most of the stuff I've seen indicates these so called incels do not make any effort to meet women in general, much less unattractive ones so to say they are being rejected by them is BS.



> Sure there is probably a few incels that if they were more realistic in their expectations would have more success.
> 
> But what separates a true InCel from women is the true InCel truly CAN’T get with any women.


The only "incel" I can possibly imagine is maybe someone with severe physical deformalities or developmental issues. I have zero empathy for anyone else who says they are incel.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> That is true, a lot of women use that as a dating strategy to hedge their bets against him cheating. However, after seeing man ugly men inside out, it's rather pointless.
> 
> See this is a good example... those women would probably look way better with good haircuts and styling and more neutral facial expressions. Then they might even exceed him.
> 
> I've found many men who complain about not having attractive-enough dating options vastly overrate their level of attractiveness. They love to pad their "SMV" with their financial status, then complains they're pulling women who just want their money 😂


I thought they were men with 80s haircuts, no?!

😂😂😂😂


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

moon7 said:


> Noooo, i dont mean like strategy. I was one of them miself!!! Then my head straightened a bit better. They really like less handsome men!!!


Oh ok. I tend to like more intelligent men, and they don't tend to be the most handsome, but I'm not the best-looking woman, so it's not an issue. However, I can't do ugly... I met a really great guy while I was dating and just couldn't stand to look at his face, so it was a no-go.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

[



TXTrini said:


> That is true, a lot of women use that as a dating strategy to hedge their bets against him cheating. However, after seeing man ugly men inside out, it's rather pointless.
> 
> See this is a good example... those women would probably look way better with good haircuts and styling and more neutral facial expressions. Then they might even exceed him.
> 
> I've found many men who complain about not having attractive-enough dating options vastly overrate their level of attractiveness. They love to pad their "SMV" with their financial status, then complains they're pulling women who just want their money 😂


That's true In general... men rate themselves a lot higher then women rate them. Women tend to rate themselves lower then men rate us.

This experiment has been done.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> Why not?


Because, like I mentioned in another thread, women date up for sex and men date down for sex. Why should a fat, ugly, overall unappealing woman date or hook up with the incel dude when there is a decent looking guy willing to hang out and hook up? They won't do it. Those ladies will stay single and bounce from guy to guy before they will date the incels...that's why they're incels.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> Thicker women I can deal with but unattractive just takes the wind out of the sails!


Can totally respect that. 

I also think attractiveness is subjective. As someone who doesn't consider herself the most attractive flower in the pot, I have always managed to find attractive partners to date/marry. Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> [
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha, I have to laugh sometimes and bite my lip. It's funny to watch them get all wound up in indignation that they don't get the hot enough women they feel they deserve. Then the diatribes about how women past their prime are invisible to men their age .


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Because, like I mentioned in another thread, women date up for sex and men date down for sex. Why should a fat, ugly, overall unappealing woman date or hook up with the incel dude when there is a decent looking guy willing to hang out and hook up? They won't do it. Those ladies will stay single and bounce from guy to guy before they will date the incels...that's why they're incels.


You'd think incels would direct their rage to those men instead. Unfortunately, brain cells seem to be lacking in their woman-attracting skillset.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> Can totally respect that.
> 
> I also think attractiveness is subjective. As someone who doesn't consider herself the most attractive flower in the pot, I have always managed to find attractive partners to date/marry. Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder.


Exactly! And as you know, I am extremely picky and have a "type"


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> You'd think incels would direct their rage to those men instead. Unfortunately, brain cells seem to be lacking in their woman-attracting skillset.


They need to direct that rage at themselves.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> They need to direct that rage at themselves.


True, it would be more productive, but they won't. It's easier to point a finger and blame everyone else than to do the hard work of self-assessment and improvement.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> True, it would be more productive, but they won't. It's easier to point a finger and blame everyone else than to do the hard work of self-assessment and improvement.


Seems to be a lot of that going on in all areas of life.


----------



## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

TXTrini said:


> I've found many men who complain about not having attractive-enough dating options vastly overrate their level of attractiveness.


Like the guy on TAM recently who claimed he was "in shape" while saying he was 5'9"/200lbs and *24% body fat, *while complaining about hooking up with an overweight woman. **


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> True, it would be more productive, but they won't. It's easier to point a finger and blame everyone else than to do the hard work of self-assessment and improvement.


It's kinda how we do things here nowadays so...yeah. Sadly.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> Because, like I mentioned in another thread, women date up for sex and men date down for sex. Why should a fat, ugly, overall unappealing woman date or hook up with the incel dude when there is a decent looking guy willing to hang out and hook up? They won't do it. Those ladies will stay single and bounce from guy to guy before they will date the incels...that's why they're incels.


You've established that horny men just need a vagina with a pulse to satiate their lust. 🙄

I've seen the kinds of men young women are dating. Most are just average Joes, not demi-gods or Christian Grey's. The vast majority of them are much less attractive than the women they are dating so please don't tell me that Incels can't find someone to date if they just out some effort into improving themselves.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Red Sonja said:


> Like the guy on TAM recently who claimed he was "in shape" while saying he was 5'9"/200lbs and *24% body fat, *while complaining about hooking up with an overweight woman. **


Reminded me of a joke! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Red Sonja said:


> Like the guy on TAM recently who claimed he was "in shape" while saying he was 5'9"/200lbs and *24% body fat, *while complaining about hooking up with an overweight woman. **


To be fair, if he could crawl into her and be safe for the winter, I would understand his complaint. It's ridiculous to see the disparity in wants/have to offer.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Red Sonja said:


> Like the guy on TAM recently who claimed he was "in shape" while saying he was 5'9"/200lbs and *24% body fat, *while complaining about hooking up with an overweight woman. **


I was going to say something there....he even claimed to be "buff" then complained about her being heavy.

I wonder how many guys aren't technically incels but are pissed off that they can't get what they think they're entitled to.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

moon7 said:


> Please, un-aware from crazy land and come back to normal, bc thats not true.


I didn't want to believe it either but it came straight from men's mouths. Get horny enough and they'll settle for sex with women they are not attracted to. 🤷‍♀️


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> To be fair, if he could crawl into her and be safe for the winter, I would understand his complaint. It's ridiculous to see the disparity in wants/have to offer.


LOL, I laughed out loud at this 🤣


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> I didn't want to believe it either but it came straight from men's mouths. Get horny enough and they'll settle for sex with women they are not attracted to. 🤷‍♀️


I never could


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> You've established that horny men just need a vagina with a pulse to satiate their lust. 🙄
> 
> I've seen the kinds of men young women are dating. Most are just average Joes, not demi-gods or Christian Grey's. The vast majority of them are much less attractive than the women they are dating so please don't tell me that Incels can't find someone to date if they just out some effort into improving themselves.


And most of the ladies are just average Janes too. Usually how it works. The world isn't full of a bunch of hot women who prefer dating ugly guys. Not unless those guys bring something else to the table like being rich, etc.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'd rather be celibate then get with a nasty guy.


Same here. I'll go even further and say I'd rather be celibate that have sex with someone I find unattractive.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Lila said:


> I didn't want to believe it either but it came straight from men's mouths. Get horny enough and they'll settle for sex with women they are not attracted to. 🤷‍♀️


I was horrified, but then looked at who was actually saying it and then wasn't surprised.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> And most of the ladies are just average Janes too. Usually how it works. The world isn't full of a bunch of hot women who prefer dating ugly guys. Not unless those guys bring something else to the table like being rich, etc.


I don't understand why people are so butthurt about being considered average, average is not a bad thing. It's a bell curve anyway, most people are average.

For men who want to hold out for hot women when they aren't hot, I have t wonder about their intelligence, because they obviously can't do math.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I don't understand why people are so butthurt about being considered average, average is not a bad thing. It's a bell curve anyway, most people are average.


Because there are a lot of narcissists out there. I know for sure I am average looking...on a good day.



> For men who want to hold out for hot women when they aren't hot, I have t wonder about their intelligence, because they obviously can't do math.


I honestly don't see this one happening near so much as I see single ladies holding out for guys out of their league. Most of the single guys I know are hitting on literally every woman ever...it just doesn't work. I think a lot of ladies believe incels are incels because they want some gamer girl, anime-style hottie, but in reality, those guys are DMing all the ugly girls out there and can't get a date, let alone a GF.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> And most of the ladies are just average Janes too. Usually how it works. The world isn't full of a bunch of hot women who prefer dating ugly guys. Not unless those guys bring something else to the table like being rich, etc.


Maybe, if all things were considered, they average out to average. Physically speaking.... The ladies are way hotter than the guys. I have a teenage son and I see it even now. No comparison. 

However, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. If these guys are average Joes dating average Janes, why can't Incels, who by most accounts could be average Joes if they put some effort into it, find average Janes to date?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> I know for sure I am average looking...on a good day


I wouldnt even consider myself average looking but I never have any problems getting h dates. Why? Because I can actually hold conversations with women.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The answer to the why not is a lot of the true incels have some kind of mental, emotional or personality disorder that impedes their ability to act or respond in a healthy manner in normal social or interpersonal settings. 

It’s not that they are just short or fat or skinny or whatever, they have actual conditions that impede their ability to connect with someone in an intimate manner.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> Maybe, if all things were considered, they average out to average. Physically speaking.... The ladies are way hotter than the guys. I have a teenage son and I see it even now. No comparison.
> 
> However, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. If these guys are average Joes dating average Janes, why can't Incels, who by most accounts could be average Joes if they put some effort into it, find average Janes to date?


A lot of the incels are a bit below average. The below average ladies can at least have access to average men if they want to get laid. So why should those below average ladies date below average men when they can get attention from better looking guys?


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> Maybe, if all things were considered, they average out to average. Physically speaking.... The ladies are way hotter than the guys. I have a teenage son and I see it even now. No comparison.
> 
> However, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. If these guys are average Joes dating average Janes, why can't Incels, who by most accounts could be average Joes if they put some effort into it, find average Janes to date?


See post # 83. 

Many of them have some kind of dysfunction or disorder.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Because there are a lot of narcissists out there. I know for sure I am average looking...on a good day.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't see this one happening near so much as I see single ladies holding out for guys out of their league. Most of the single guys I know are hitting on literally every woman ever...it just doesn't work. I think a lot of ladies believe incels are incels because they want some gamer girl, anime-style hottie, but in reality, those guys are DMing all the ugly girls out there and can't get a date, let alone a GF.


Of course we'll see different ends of the spectrum, we ARE opposite genders. There's a lot of delusional people out there for sure. Most normal people date and marry people similar to them with respect to attractiveness and socioeconomic status. It's the ones who don't end up being disappointed.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Of course we'll see different ends of the spectrum, we ARE opposite genders. There's a lot of delusional people out there for sure. Most normal people date and marry people similar to them with respect to attractiveness and socioeconomic status. It's the ones who don't end up being disappointed.


I have a few incel friends so I kinda just see what they're up to. Mostly in the DMs of literally every female ever and having 0 luck. They usually lack charm or the courage to take things to the next level. One of my friends, I told him he was good at talking to women but never closed the deal with any of them. That sort of thing.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> The answer to the why not is a lot of the true incels have some kind of mental, emotional or personality disorder that impedes their ability to act or respond in a healthy manner in normal social or interpersonal settings.
> 
> It’s not that they are just short or fat or skinny or whatever, they have actual conditions that impede their ability to connect with someone in an intimate manner.


I do feel for those men with severe issues but those are only a minority of those self labeled Incels. @moon7 stated her brother identified as incel up until a few years ago. He made changes to his life and now has a girlfriend. The vast majority of these 'Incels' fall under the that category.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> I have a few incel friends so I kinda just see what they're up to. Mostly in the DMs of literally every female ever and having 0 luck. They usually lack charm or the courage to take things to the next level. One of my friends, I told him he was good at talking to women but never closed the deal with any of them. That sort of thing.


I had male incel friends too from my gaming days. The hugely obese ones disparaged obese women, some couldn't talk to women but talk a lot of **** about women. Noone likes being around negative, bitter people, especially when they come across as indiscriminate. Who's going to feel special to be with someone who swipes on everything?


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> I have a few incel friends so I kinda just see what they're up to. Mostly in the DMs of literally every female ever and having 0 luck. They usually lack charm or the courage to take things to the next level. One of my friends, I told him he was good at talking to women but never closed the deal with any of them. That sort of thing.


I'm going to sound old but why are they trying to DM every woman out there instead of getting out and meeting them in real life?


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> A lot of the incels are a bit below average. The below average ladies can at least have access to average men if they want to get laid. So why should those below average ladies date below average men when they can get attention from better looking guys?


Besides the legitimately disfigured and developmentally affected, what makes these guys below average?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> I'm going to sound old but why are they trying to DM every woman out there instead of getting out and meeting them in real life?


It's safer for them


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I had male incel friends too from my gaming days. The hugely obese ones disparaged obese women, some couldn't talk to women but talk a lot of **** about women. Noone likes being around negative, bitter people, especially when they come across as indiscriminate. Who's going to feel special to be with someone who swipes on everything?


Bitterness usually comes from years of failure. As to feeling special being with someone that swipes on everything, this is why a lot of guys refuse to admit much of what they do.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> I do feel for those men with severe issues but those are only a minority of those self labeled Incels. @moon7 stated her brother identified as incel up until a few years ago. He made changes to his life and now has a girlfriend. The vast majority of these 'Incels' fall under the that category.


Yes but all an alcoholic has to do to not have alcohol- related problems is to not drink and all the drug addict has to do to stay out of jail is to not take drugs.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> Besides the legitimately disfigured and developmentally affected, what makes these guys below average?


One of my incel buddies is fat, lives with his parents in his late 30's, and doesn't have the gumption to really make serious life changes. He has a female counterpart but those ladies wouldn't give him the time of day. He tries to talk to them and he's had nothing but a lifetime of failure.



Lila said:


> I'm going to sound old but why are they trying to DM every woman out there instead of getting out and meeting them in real life?


Different reasons. It's easier/less risk being high among them. You're also more likely to get a response.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Bitterness usually comes from years of failure. As to feeling special being with someone that swipes on everything, this is why a lot of guys refuse to admit much of what they do.


I get that, but bitterness doesn't get you what you want in life. When I was younger, I wasn't what men in my culture wanted, so instead of getting bitter and butthurt about it, I found men who were interested. Ironically, my choices have expanded with age and weight, go figure! 😂 But thinking back objectively, it was because I worked on being a mentally healthier version of myself. It's a matter of mindset and determination. Maybe it would help if they did IC or worked with a life coach or something.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I get that, but bitterness doesn't get you what you want in life. When I was younger, I wasn't what men in my culture wanted, so instead of getting bitter and butthurt about it, I found men who were interested. Ironically, my choices have expanded with age and weight, go figure! 😂 But thinking back objectively, it was because I worked on being a mentally healthier version of myself. It's a matter of mindset and determination. Maybe it would help if they did IC or worked with a life coach or something.


I agree with you but people are stubborn. The friend I mentioned, he now refuses to talk to me about his so-called "love life" because I lectured him on how to get a girl. My wife has even said we could try to introduce him to a friend of hers or something but I know he isn't up for that particular challenge.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> I agree with you but people are stubborn. The friend I mentioned, he now refuses to talk to me about his so-called "love life" because I lectured him on how to get a girl. My wife has even said we could try to introduce him to a friend of hers or something but I know he isn't up for that particular challenge.


Then it's his own damned fault and he should stop complaining.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Lila said:


> You've established that horny men just need a vagina with a pulse to satiate their lust. 🙄
> 
> I've seen the kinds of men young women are dating. Most are just average Joes, not demi-gods or Christian Grey's. The vast majority of them are much less attractive than the women they are dating so please don't tell me that Incels can't find someone to date if they just out some effort into improving themselves.


But I bet those average looking men actually are doing something worthwhile with life and are interesting people. They aren’t whiny pathetic “victims”. They probably have some humility and some humor.

I always recall the old saying “If you want a friend, be a friend”.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Yes but all an alcoholic has to do to not have alcohol- related problems is to not drink and all the drug addict has to do to stay out of jail is to not take drugs.


I get it's not easy but the alternative, not doing anything at all and just *****ing about it, is not getting them anywhere. Again I am not speaking about the disfigured or mentally challenged. I'm talking about the ones that can do something to improve their situation.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Then it's his own damned fault and he should stop complaining.


In my experience, they do pretty much stop complaining about it. They don't go around all day hating on women or anything, they just live whatever life they have. The complaining comes in when you go online and see people having discussions like this one. Then they voice their complaints.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> But I bet those average looking men actually are doing something worthwhile with life and are interesting people. They aren’t whiny pathetic “victims”. They probably have some humility and some humor.
> 
> I always recall the old saying “If you want a friend, be a friend”.


Absolutely. Some are not even that interesting but they are good people. My best friend's daughter's boyfriend falls into this category. He's just an average guy. Not the most social but he volunteers to help the needy and has super high EI. He GETS her. She absolutely adores him.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> Because I can actually hold conversations with women.


This is the key! That gift will overcome a lot.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> I get it's not easy but the alternative, not doing anything at all and just *****ing about it, is not getting them anywhere. Again I am not speaking about the disfigured or mentally challenged. I'm talking about the ones that can do something to improve their situation.


I don’t disagree with you in principle. They SHOULD work on becoming more attractive land improving their social skills etc - 

Just as the alcoholic should quit drinking, the druggie should stop taking drugs, the mentally Ill should stop acting crazy, the homeless should get jobs, the obese should lose weight and I should stop eating all the Christmas goodies that people keep being into work.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t disagree with you in principle. They SHOULD work on becoming more attractive land improving their social skills etc -
> 
> Just as the alcoholic should quit drinking, the druggie should stop taking drugs, the mentally Ill should stop acting crazy, the homeless should get jobs, the obese should lose weight and I should stop eating all the Christmas goodies that people keep being into work.


Well then, with the exception of the mentally ill and the homeless (who have a very high incidence of mental health issues), all of those get little empathy from me, just the same as the non disfigured and non mentally challenged incels. Their choices, and consequences, are theirs to own.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> In my experience, they do pretty much stop complaining about it. They don't go around all day hating on women or anything, they just live whatever life they have. The complaining comes in when you go online and see people having discussions like this one. Then they voice their complaints.


Fair enough. I suppose I'm more sensitive to that because it's mostly men I see disparaging women's looks than vice versa.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Fair enough. I suppose I'm more sensitive to that because it's mostly men I see disparaging women's looks than vice versa.


Online, yeah. Women LIEEEEE to each other so much online that it's become a meme. The ugliest, fattest girl ever could put on the worst outfit and dance on Tiktok and all the ladies in the comments will praise her for her outfit, her looks, and her confidence. It's all lies. In person though, I've seen a lot of ladies nitpick one another and try to drag each other down to establish their place in the pecking order. Even among friends.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Online, yeah. Women LIEEEEE to each other so much online that it's become a meme. The ugliest, fattest girl ever could put on the worst outfit and dance on Tiktok and all the ladies in the comments will praise her for her outfit, her looks, and her confidence. It's all lies. In person though, I've seen a lot of ladies nitpick one another and try to drag each other down to establish their place in the pecking order. Even among friends.


I've seen that too, but I'm talking about opposite genders disparaging each other's looks.


----------



## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I wonder what the average of incels being on the spectrum is vs. the national average?


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

nospam99 said:


> I assume most people know. But for those who don't, incel means involuntarily celibate. LOL because it's a euphemism for wanting sex but not 'getting any'.
> 
> Thinking about life today, it struck me that I've only 'heard' (and only online) 'the incel condition' discussed in the context of men. For some (many?) men in late 20th and early 21st century America, it's just 'a fact of life'. That got me wondering. Are there incel women? I assume so. Why don't we hear as much about it as incel men? Fewer women affected? It doesn't bother them enough to complain about it? etc? , My 'enquiring mind wants to know'.





> celibate *noun*
> plural celibates
> *: *a person who lives in celibacy *: *a celibate person:
> 
> ...


With all the sex workers out there an "involuntary celibate" would have to have no money with which to buy intercourse, have some horrific medical condition, or be forbidden from marriage or sexual companionship for some unusual reason. The concept of involuntary makes this a small number in my mind and a major distinction.

I can understand how people who have been banished from society, or legally institutionalized could be either male or female incels. Still since celibacy can be either marriage or sexual intercourse being an incel would require fairly novel circumstances.

So ".....Are there incel women?......." I have worked at a Woman's Correction Center. I expect that there were some incel women in there, that depending on the length of there sentences were incels denied either sexual intercourse and/or marriage.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lila said:


> Can totally respect that.
> 
> I also think attractiveness is subjective. As someone who doesn't consider herself the most attractive flower in the pot, I have always managed to find attractive partners to date/marry. Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder.


Point of order! I saw your wedding pic, and I think you’re very pretty.


----------



## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> The answer to the why not is a lot of the true incels have some kind of mental, emotional or personality disorder that impedes their ability to act or respond in a healthy manner in normal social or interpersonal settings.
> 
> It’s not that they are just short or fat or skinny or whatever, they have actual conditions that impede their ability to connect with someone in an intimate manner.


There are truth in this. I believe this too. And i beloeve some overcome it to an extent in some way. 

My brother (the ome i used as example beflre) when reached teens started showing dificulties in being friends with girls, he is very introverted (our uncles called him hermit). He had his group of friends and thats that. He has some lack of empathy too. Treated cats very badly and now he takes care very carefully amd sweetly of his cat (he live with my mom). 

There ia somw thruth in that. Some low level of social difficulties. Beforepeople with such difficulties were forced to overcome it, but nowdays its easy for them to hide, bc everybody has their own bedroom and gadgets and society nowdays separate people.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I've seen that too, but I'm talking about opposite genders disparaging each other's looks.


A lot of ladies online making fun of men's appearances too, and men don't have any social movements defending them. If a guy is short, bald, has a small penis, whatever, you can bet ladies online are making fun of him for it. That's just the nature of the internet.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Enigma32 said:


> A lot of ladies online making fun of men's appearances too, and men don't have any social movements defending them. If a guy is short, bald, has a small penis, whatever, you can bet ladies online are making fun of him for it. That's just the nature of the internet.


Actually I think what takes place more is men that are unattractive to women are essentually invisible to them. ie they do not talk about them, talk to them or really acknowledge them much at all. 

An earlier poster said that guys will disparage women's appearance more than vice versa. I believe this to be true but in a sense, that means that the guys are at least taking notice of said women. The reverse is not always true. Often times unattractive men are not on women's radar at all. 

An unattractive woman might get mocked or disparaged in some fashion by some rude guys. But unattractive men are often lost in obscurity and feel completely nonexistent. That's when some of those guys turn destructive.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> So ".....Are there incel women?......." I have worked at a Woman's Correction Center. I expect that there were some incel women in there, that depending on the length of there sentences were incels denied either sexual intercourse and/or marriage.


Ok there may be some truth there. 

.... but how many male COs were sneaking them into storage rooms and cleaning closets away from the cameras when no one was looking?


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Actually I think what takes place more is men that are unattractive to women are essentually invisible to them. ie they do not talk about them, talk to them or really acknowledge them much at all.
> 
> An earlier poster said that guys will disparage women's appearance more than vice versa. I believe this to be true but in a sense, that means that the guys are at least taking notice of said women. The reverse is not always true. Often times unattractive men are not on women's radar at all.
> 
> An unattractive woman might get mocked or disparaged in some fashion by some rude guys. But unattractive men are often lost in obscurity and feel completely nonexistent. That's when some of those guys turn destructive.


Yeah there was a study done that verified this.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> A lot of ladies online making fun of men's appearances too, and men don't have any social movements defending them. If a guy is short, bald, has a small penis, whatever, you can bet ladies online are making fun of him for it. That's just the nature of the internet.


I've been guilty of that, but usually if someone's being an ass and started **** first 😆. Then I'll do it right to their face. Otherwise, why do it at all?

Just because one doesn't find someone physically attractive has no basis in their worthiness as a mate. Not for me maybe, but surely someone else, especially if they have good character. 

Btw, attractive is just not about looks. I blew off very attractive men in facir of less physically attractive, less wealrhy men because of their personality and attitude. Of course they got insulting, bc no woman who's not a perfect 10 should reject THEM.


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Women can easily get sex. Men can easily get married.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> With all the sex workers out there an "involuntary celibate" would have to have no money with which to buy intercourse,


The topic of sex workers always comes up in discussion about incels. 

I'm sure there are some that have gone that route, but a good number of them cannot even bring themselves to do that. 

to obtain the services of a professional provider, one still has to break away from the video games and leave Mom's basement and bring themselves to talk to and interact on a personal level with girls. Many cannot even do that even if they do have the money.... which some of them don't. 

For some, the same issues and problems that keep them from interacting with women also hampers their ability to obtain meaningful employment. 

In many ways these aren't normal, mentally/emotionally healthy guys that are just physically unattractive or shy. They have issues that impede their ability to interact with women and sometimes people in general across many different domains.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Actually I think what takes place more is men that are unattractive to women are essentually invisible to them. ie they do not talk about them, talk to them or really acknowledge them much at all.
> 
> An earlier poster said that guys will disparage women's appearance more than vice versa. I believe this to be true but in a sense, that means that the guys are at least taking notice of said women. The reverse is not always true. Often times unattractive men are not on women's radar at all.
> 
> An unattractive woman might get mocked or disparaged in some fashion by some rude guys. But unattractive men are often lost in obscurity and feel completely nonexistent. That's when some of those guys turn destructive.


Well I looked at some of the destructive ones, they aren't physically ugly, just incredibly creepy and entitled. So they deserved to be shunned.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> . Men can easily get married.


The actual incels can't.


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Maybe women who are so heavy and have a face like Mama June…

Nope. Not even them.


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

I read a book a few years ago about “working women” (who don’t get married and have kids). The author described herself to others as unable to have children. Her inability to conceive was not a biological inability, but an inability caused by her failure to find an (acceptable) husband. Her friends are similarly successful in their careers and unable to find suitable men.

The problem with male “incels” is the “involuntary” part. The same goes for women trying to get married. Define involuntary.


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Lila said:


> Recently I have been made aware of something that I honestly never believed but apparently, it's true. To a horny enough man, any vagina with a pulse will do which means I don't think female incels exist.


“Any port in a storm!”


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Lila said:


> I've seen the kinds of men young women are dating. Most are just average Joes, not demi-gods or Christian Grey's. The vast majority of them are much less attractive than the women they are dating so please don't tell me that Incels can't find someone to date if they just out some effort into improving themselves.


Are 80% of men unattractive? How can the “vast majority” of the young men be “much less attractive” than the girls they are dating?

Unless the young people “dating” (relationships) are a small group of guys with promising futures. The hot guys aren’t dating, they are “talking” and hooking up with girls. And like vampires, they don’t want to be seen in the light of day with the girls they are “talking” with.


----------



## Sprinkles87 (3 mo ago)

I know this isn't an equivalent and indeed not a female incel but maybe I can be the female counterpart of an involuntary male virgin; a 35 year-old woman that has never gotten a marriage proposal ever in her life. Maybe a woman that's in the ''forever gf'' stage in a relationship (basically unmarried not out of choice) and can't attract marriage-minded men (either that or she does finds them but they're all taken by other women) is just as heartbreaking too since that means she can't get a man to open his gate for commitment. It makes us feel useless and worthless as a woman, as a human, as not good enough...why a gf but not a wife?


CraigBesuden said:


> Women can easily get sex. Men can easily get married.


That's pretty much it. If a woman doesn't want sex with him, unless he's a sick rapist there is nothing the man can do. Same thing when a gf is endlessly waiting for her marriage proposal...if he won't give it there is nothing we can do about it.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> Ok there may be some truth there.
> 
> .... but how many male COs were sneaking them into storage rooms and cleaning closets away from the cameras when no one was looking?


A correction center is a real jungle environment. The first time I stepped inside I was warned about several things. The first was that if I recognized someone, I should not acknowledge them or talk to them. That while you may think the women are not dangerous, they are and they are there for a variety of reasons from drugs to murder. 

I have been horrified at how "corrections officers" (they are not guards) treat inmates. This is done for a reason, the CO's need to be dominant and not show feelings for the inmates. Any expression of kindness, civility, allows the inmate an opportunity to manipulate the CO. The attitude is it is best to keep inmates at an emotionally distant level.

Do CO's sometimes have sex with inmates? You hear about it, however the physical risks, the blackmail risks, and the career risks are really huge, so I don't believe it happens that often.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Sprinkles87 said:


> I know this isn't an equivalent and indeed not a female incel but maybe I can be the female counterpart of an involuntary male virgin; a 35 year-old woman that has never gotten a marriage proposal ever in her life. Maybe a woman that's in the ''forever gf'' stage in a relationship (basically unmarried not out of choice) and can't attract marriage-minded men (either that or she does finds them but they're all taken by other women) is just as heartbreaking too since that means she can't get a man to open his gate for commitment. It makes us feel useless and worthless as a woman, as a human, as not good enough...why a gf but not a wife?
> That's pretty much it. If a woman doesn't want sex with him, unless he's a sick rapist there is nothing the man can do. Same thing when a gf is endlessly waiting for her marriage proposal...if he won't give it there is nothing we can do about it.


I really don't know what to tell you 😕 except that youre bot worthless. I'm sorry you're having a hard time, it must be painful. The only thing is maybe you're picking men who don't want/are incapable of responsibility? Younger folks seem to have an extended adolescence or simply don't want to marry.

I've been married twice, and the possibility is there for another round if I want it. I'm nothing special, but I learned real early not to waste time on men who didn't want me decisively. It might seem harsh, but don't waste time on anyone who does have similar goals regardless of how you feel about them. 

Some men don't make up their mind and get complacent until they're being kicked to the curb, others are timewasters and will string you along if you allow it. Just live your best life, your marital status does not determine your worth, only you can do that.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

moon7 said:


> My brother (the ome i used as example beflre) when reached teens started showing dificulties in being friends with girls, he is very introverted (our uncles called him hermit). He had his group of friends and thats that. *He has some lack of empathy too*. Treated cats very badly and now he takes care very carefully amd sweetly of his cat (he live with my mom).


This sounds like an autistic relative we have. Lack of empathy is a major characteristic, introverted, and difficulty befriending girls. Prone to rage at times.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Young at Heart said:


> A correction center is a real jungle environment. The first time I stepped inside I was warned about several things. The first was that if I recognized someone, I should not acknowledge them or talk to them. That while you may think the women are not dangerous, they are and they are there for a variety of reasons from drugs to murder.
> 
> I have been horrified at how "corrections officers" (they are not guards) treat inmates. This is done for a reason, the CO's need to be dominant and not show feelings for the inmates. Any expression of kindness, civility, allows the inmate an opportunity to manipulate the CO. The attitude is it is best to keep inmates at an emotionally distant level.
> 
> *Do CO's sometimes have sex with inmates? You hear about it, however the physical risks, the blackmail risks, and the career risks are really huge, so I don't believe it happens that often*.


It happens. A LOT.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Sprinkles87 said:


> I know this isn't an equivalent and indeed not a female incel but maybe I can be the female counterpart of an involuntary male virgin; a 35 year-old woman that has never gotten a marriage proposal ever in her life. Maybe a woman that's in the ''forever gf'' stage in a relationship (basically unmarried not out of choice) and can't attract marriage-minded men (either that or she does finds them but they're all taken by other women) is just as heartbreaking too since that means she can't get a man to open his gate for commitment. It makes us feel useless and worthless as a woman, as a human, as not good enough...why a gf but not a wife?
> That's pretty much it. If a woman doesn't want sex with him, unless he's a sick rapist there is nothing the man can do. Same thing when a gf is endlessly waiting for her marriage proposal...if he won't give it there is nothing we can do about it.


Yes, that's pretty much the female equivalent of an incel. Generally, it means they have one or more traits that makes them incompatible for a LTR or they always pick guys out of their league.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I guess I just think the incel thing is way overblown. I do believe there are individuals that are involuntarily celibate. Meaning no matter what they do they are simply an undesirable person on every level level. However, I think most people classified as incels these days are honestly just extreme "nice guys" that have grown to resent women. I have zero empathy. I feel like most men can find a compatible companion if they put in some effort. 

I guess I am tired of all the 80/20 stuff. It simply isn't true. No amount of repeating it will make it so. All one needs to do is to go outside and look at the couples around you. You'll see all types, it may be surprising to see that not every woman is dating a bad-boy, or super successful alpha. I happen to think women are much more likely than men to look past physical appearance issues if there is other substance there.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ReformedHubby said:


> I guess I am tired of all the 80/20 stuff. It simply isn't true...... I happen to think women are much more likely than men to look past physical appearance issues if there is other substance there.


Having been back in the dating game for awhile now I can say that both of this things are true and real. The one thing I can say with absolute surety is that people are absolutely toxic when it comes to dating.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Back in my single days, I was going through a dry spell. A friend told me about a girl who was very much into sex. The problem is, she was very unattractive. I’m probably an average looking guy, but, it was a dry spell. So, I asked her if she wanted to go out. She did. While it was a little hard looking at her, she was trim and fit, and she showed me things I never thought that could be done. I still think about it. She had a good time, too. We never hooked up again. In fact, I don’t think I ever saw her again.


----------



## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

Yeah, feminists. "Where have all the good men/women gone?" Modern feminists and incels are two sides of the same coin.


----------



## Sprinkles87 (3 mo ago)

DamianDamian said:


> Yeah, feminists. "Where have all the good men/women gone?" Modern feminists and incels are two sides of the same coin.


It depends on how the term incel is used. It was be just an involuntary male virgin that is having bad luck in getting a woman but isn't bitter vs the bitter man going on a rampage, blaming all women. If it's the bitter one then yes there bitter feminist would be his equivalent.


----------



## Sprinkles87 (3 mo ago)

Enigma32 said:


> Yes, that's pretty much the female equivalent of an incel. Generally, it means they have one or more traits that makes them incompatible for a LTR or they always pick guys out of their league.


I believe it was a combination of bad luck and not using my time wisely for me. I think it takes finding the person at the right moment, right place and right time. Unfortunately things just didn't work in my favor. For now I'm just focusing on having a child through artificial insemination. If I can't have kids in the traditional manner (married) then I'll have the child myself.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DamianDamian said:


> Yeah, feminists. "Where have all the good men/women gone?" Modern feminists and incels are two sides of the same coin.


Interesting comparison. 
The difference is the feminists put themselves out of the relationship market by their own sense of entitlement. But they could still have sex if they so chose. 

The angry 300lb boss-girl with the blue hair and metal in her nose and lips that wants a 6’2” bodybuilder that is an investment banker driving a Ferrari that she can boss around and make him scrub her toilet and shames him for his sex drive has created her own relationship wasteland. 

Some of the incels have done the same thing by playing video games in their mom’s basement all day and are pathetically out of shape, have no social skills and think that Swedish bikini models should be all over them because they got an A on their last physics test. 

But there is another segment of the InCel population that really are disordered and nonfunctional and without proper treatment and therapy will never be able to connect with someone sexually. 

The 300lb blue haired feminist can still get laid if she keeps her mouth shut and doesn’t ask for anything more than a NSA hook up.

Somewhere out there are guys with fetishes for 300lb blue haired chicks. 

The reverse is not true with the incels.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Interesting comparison.
> The difference is the feminists put themselves out of the relationship market by their own sense of entitlement. But they could still have sex if they so chose.
> 
> The angry 300lb boss-girl with the blue hair and metal in her nose and lips that wants a 6’2” bodybuilder that is an investment banker driving a Ferrari that she can boss around and make him scrub her toilet and shames him for his sex drive has created her own relationship wasteland.
> ...


Thank you for putting that image in my head! I was trying to eat!!!


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> The angry 300lb boss-girl with the blue hair and metal in her nose and lips that wants a 6’2” bodybuilder that is an investment banker driving a Ferrari that she can boss around and make him scrub her toilet and shames him for his sex drive has created her own relationship wasteland.



You all need to stop with the blue hair and nose ring stereotype for feminists. I'm a feminist. Most of my friends are feminist. We look nothing at all like your description. Most of us are actually really fit and feminine.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sprinkles87 said:


> I know this isn't an equivalent and indeed not a female incel but maybe I can be the female counterpart of an involuntary male virgin; a 35 year-old woman that has never gotten a marriage proposal ever in her life. Maybe a woman that's in the ''forever gf'' stage in a relationship (basically unmarried not out of choice) and can't attract marriage-minded men (either that or she does finds them but they're all taken by other women) is just as heartbreaking too since that means she can't get a man to open his gate for commitment. It makes us feel useless and worthless as a woman, as a human, as not good enough...why a gf but not a wife?
> That's pretty much it. If a woman doesn't want sex with him, unless he's a sick rapist there is nothing the man can do. Same thing when a gf is endlessly waiting for her marriage proposal...if he won't give it there is nothing we can do about it.


You are what I would call an InSing ( involuntary single) but not an InCel as you could have sex outside of a committed relationship if you chose. 

So you’re not really involuntarily celibate per se but involuntarily single. 

A segment of the InCel population can’t get any kind of interaction with the opposite sex.


----------



## Sprinkles87 (3 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> You are what I would call an InSing ( involuntary single) but not an InCel as you could have sex outside of a committed relationship if you chose.
> 
> So you’re not really involuntarily celibate per se but involuntarily single.
> 
> A segment of the InCel population can’t get any kind of interaction with the opposite sex.


Yeah. It feels bad. This has forced me to take actions these days. I'm getting artificially inseminated. It'll be no use if I were to start the dating selection process again. It's a lose-lose for me at this moment. Even if I were to successfully get a marriage proposal after 3-4 years of dating yet another man (without pressuring a man to marry me), that means I would've killed my remaining fertile years and would've been even more harder than now to have kids.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> You all need to stop with the blue hair and nose ring stereotype for feminists. I'm a feminist. Most of my friends are feminist. We look nothing at all like your description. Most of us are actually really fit and feminine.


We probably need to develop some new vocabulary for the angry blue hairs. 

The original definition of a feminist was probably someone who believes in and advocates for the equal legal and employment rights and social status for women.

By that definition pretty much every decent person is a feminist. 

But today the word has pretty much taken on a whole new meaning when it is used colloquially.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> You all need to stop with the blue hair and nose ring stereotype for feminists. I'm a feminist. Most of my friends are feminist. We look nothing at all like your description. Most of us are actually really fit and feminine.


So this isn't you them? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Numb26 said:


> So this isn't you them? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> View attachment 94833


Yeah you see we need a new word. 

I grew up in the 70s when feminists were campaigning for equal employment options and equal pay for equal work and for women’s rights to manage their own banking and finances and their own reproductivity etc etc 

Those were honorable and rightful endeavors. 

I’m not quite sure what the angry blue hairs are fighting for today.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah you see we need a new word.
> 
> I grew up in the 70s when feminists were campaigning for equal employment options and equal pay for equal work and for women’s rights to manage their own banking and finances and their own reproductivity etc etc
> 
> ...


Maybe they want to eat men alive.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah you see we need a new word.
> 
> I grew up in the 70s when feminists were campaigning for equal employment options and equal pay for equal work and for women’s rights to manage their own banking and finances and their own reproductivity etc etc
> 
> ...


What all fringe woke groups fight for...power over middle aged, cis, white men.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> So this isn't you them? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> View attachment 94833


To each their own but I'm closer to Gloria Steinem.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Lila said:


> To each their own but I'm closer to Gloria Steinem.


To me there is a huge difference between 2nd and 3rd wave feminists.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Numb26 said:


> I think you give to much credence to the idea that ANY woman can have sex ANY time she wants. I don't believe this is true.


Oh I think it’s true. I’m old and fat and don’t flirt. I still occasionally get hit on. Happened just last night. If I can get hit in without trying what do you think would happen when trying.

Also see the thread where Indian dude ****ed a girl he didn’t like because he was horny. In that thread some men admitted they really will have sex with someone they don’t like just to have sex.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> It’s not about standards one way or another.
> 
> The incel’s inability to connect is not based on his own selectivity or choice…… it is an actual inability. It is truely involuntary on his part.
> 
> ...


No I don’t think it’s an actual inability. Most of them are all red pill and think they should be able to treat women with disdain and condescension AND should be able to bang the hottest chicks. They are often low value males in all respects that think they deserve only the prettiest youngest little thing there is.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> Also see the thread where Indian dude ****ed a girl he didn’t like because he was horny. In that thread some men admitted they really will have sex with someone they don’t like just to have sex.


I think it’s fair and accurate to say that it is common for many men to have sex with a woman that he would not chose to have a committed relationship with.

But I don’t think it is common for the average man pursue sex with a woman he truly does not like. 

Sexuality is very important and something that most men place a lot value on. So if there is a woman that desires him sexually…. well, let me put it this way - he will probably no dislike her. 

She may not be his cup of tea for a traditional relationship and he may keep it casual and hook up situation, but to say that he does not like her is usually too strong of a statement. 

I’ve been to bed with women that I was not seeking a committed LTR or marriage with, but I’ve had genuine fondness and affection for each one of them.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> No I don’t think it’s an actual inability. Most of them are all red pill and think they should be able to treat women with disdain and condescension AND should be able to bang the hottest chicks. They are often low value males in all respects that think they deserve only the prettiest youngest little thing there is.


I’m sure there are some teenagers and early 20somethings where that is the case. 

But there is a percentage of the InCel population that it’s not just bad attitudes and butthurt egos but actual disorders and dysfunctions


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Now there are two of these threads going on now! Woohoo!!!!!


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I think it’s fair and accurate to say that it is common for many men to have sex with a woman that he would not chose to have a committed relationship with.
> 
> But I don’t think it is common for the average man pursue sex with a woman he truly does not like.
> 
> ...


Nope in the thread I’m talking about he said he didn’t find her attractive didn’t like her personality. Just horny and had already paid for the date.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I’m not quite sure what the angry blue hairs are fighting for today.


I don't remember where I heard this but it's true and it explains so many of the problems we face today.

The problem with activists is that once the cause is won, they never just go home and consider their job done. They need to keep pushing, keep finding new causes to fight for.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Sprinkles87 said:


> I believe it was a combination of bad luck and not using my time wisely for me. I think it takes finding the person at the right moment, right place and right time. Unfortunately things just didn't work in my favor. For now I'm just focusing on having a child through artificial insemination. If I can't have kids in the traditional manner (married) then I'll have the child myself.


Sorry to hear that. I also spent way too much time dating the wrong people until I found my wife. I don't plan on ever dating again.


----------



## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah you see we need a new word.
> 
> I grew up in the 70s when feminists were campaigning for equal employment options and equal pay for equal work and for women’s rights to manage their own banking and finances and their own reproductivity etc etc
> 
> ...


They are fighting for supremacy. 
It's gone beyond individual liberty, but has moved into forcing men into a subservient position in society, in which case I've gone fishing.


----------



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

While I see the parallel, that wouldn’t apply to you.

A man who is supposedly “involuntarily celibate” is a man (supposedly) so lacking in merit that no woman will have sex with him.

The female equivalent would be a woman so lacking in merit that no man would ever want to marry her. That’s certainly not you.

You could have easily found a marriage partner while younger. Even now, I’m sure that you could find a marriage partner. He might be 10-20 years older than you or lacking in some way(s), but you could find someone.

After you have your child(ren), you should still be able to find someone. If you insist that the man be your age, never married and has no kids of his own, it will be difficult. But if you are realistic, you should be fine.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> The problem with activists is that once the cause is won, they never just go home and consider their job done. They need to keep pushing, keep finding new causes to fight for.


Indeed.

Which reminds me of some brothers riding across a river in dire straits.






I'm a soldier of freedom in the army of the man
Ah we are the chosen, we're the partisan alright
Well the cause it is noble and the cause it is just
We are ready to pay with our lives if we must

Gonna ride across the river deep and wide
Ride across the river to the other side

Now I'm a soldier of fortune, I'm a dog of war
And we don't give a damn who the killing is for
Yeah it's the same old story with a different name
Death or glory, it's the killing game

Gonna ride across the river deep and wide
Ride across the river to the other side

Oh nothing gonna stop them as the day follows the night
Right become a wrong, the left become the right
And they sing as they march with their flags unfurled
Today in the mountains, tomorrow the world

Gonna ride across the river deep and wide
Ride across the river to the other side


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lila said:


> You all need to stop with the blue hair and nose ring stereotype for feminists. I'm a feminist. Most of my friends are feminist. We look nothing at all like your description. Most of us are actually really fit and feminine.


Right? I'm extremely pro feminist and pro accomplished women and somehow I still love men! I have sons only, a great bf, men friends and awesome male coworkers.

And I don't have blue hair or any piercings.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Sprinkles87 said:


> I know this isn't an equivalent and indeed not a female incel but maybe I can be the female counterpart of an involuntary male virgin; a 35 year-old woman that has never gotten a marriage proposal ever in her life. Maybe a woman that's in the ''forever gf'' stage in a relationship (basically unmarried not out of choice) and can't attract marriage-minded men (either that or she does finds them but they're all taken by other women) is just as heartbreaking too since that means she can't get a man to open his gate for commitment. It makes us feel useless and worthless as a woman, as a human, as not good enough...why a gf but not a wife?
> That's pretty much it. If a woman doesn't want sex with him, unless he's a sick rapist there is nothing the man can do. Same thing when a gf is endlessly waiting for her marriage proposal...if he won't give it there is nothing we can do about it.


I don’t think you would count in the group you are trying to represent. You basically dated 2 guys. To get a marriage proposal you should be dating until you find someone compatible. Juan was not a good match. In the future if you don’t get a marriage proposal in a year or two move on. You still have playoff time to marry just not to have children.


----------

