# Virtual Affairs, BDSM fantasies, 26 years in



## KrisAmiss

My husband and I had a storybook marriage for 6 years. 3 kids and 20 years later, he's on ****** ******* and FetLife, enjoying "beautiful young women" mostly online sexting, pictures back and forth, and one score in real life. Our sex life has been abysmal much to my great sadness (I honestly thought he might be gay) but porn got him through 18 years, then he went interactive. "Dozens and dozens of women" he's "flirted" with, shocking me and shattering my trust. 

I wonder how we survived so long, but much of this rode on those amazing first years. We were best friends and even through all these, we worked well together for the most part. We were busy. Time runs quickly. I wasn't happy but it looked like my parents' marriage. Is that what marriage is?

Acknowledging our relationship issues, we agreed to work on the marriage. Yet several times in 2 or 3 weeks, he's gotten back on FetLife (the married women were too bitter on the other site - imagine that) and feigned confusion when I'm like, wtf? His inability to stop has emphasized the whole BDSM aspect for me. He won't share details because I'd think he's disgusting... His "creative writing" I've seen is definitely nothing I've experienced with him. So while I was willing to move on, he's still in the gutter over there. I'm actually not a prude; I've missed sex a lot. He has once again agreed to quit if only for this little while, but I'm skeptical at this point. I asked if it's ok for me to gather my FetLife friends together, but suddenly it's not "just sex" and "doing nothing."

I get that it may be his escape from the real world, but it's not OK with me. But it mostly pisses me off because it's distracting me from thinking about the issues that matter. How do I focus???

He has been all over the place, several times blurting out, it's over. I get that he clearly had already decided that and now I've confused him by bringing his dirty little secrets into the light but how can I help myself? I know I need to work through all these emotions anyway, but as I find him flying off the handle, I'm wondering why I actually want to consider staying.

I suggested we give ourselves a deadline to decide stay or go (with the positive idea that it'd work out) and we agreed on a little more than two months 7/7/17. We agreed to be HONEST and go to five marriage couseling sessions (two already done.)

Has anything worked well in deciding? I honestly am trying to discern what is just habit. I'm willing to leave this comfortable lifestyle because not surprisingly I've not been happy either. We both agree change is necessary. Our kids are teenagers and I do think divorce hurts kids/entire families. Perhaps we are both tired of putting everyone else first though.

Big factors for me: he's traveled for work for 20 years and I've always hated that... it's made him feel I'm impossible to please because I felt overwhelmed with the kids and he tried to help me (with attitude) to no avail. It's a lifestyle I never wanted and I never got over it. He still travels and is a workaholic.

I must have stripped him of his manhood. We are not homophobes and I didn't consider the gay question an insult. That he is over-compensating and trying to be a sex super hero occurs to me. Or he is late bloomer. Or he's deeply depressed or insane. See, I just can't stop wondering about it! He hates when I dwell on things. So do I!


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## sokillme

What exactly are you trying to save here? An open marriage?


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## KrisAmiss

Thanks for the laugh. Not trying to save an open marriage. I think that'd be hard to navigate and would probably just make for a torturous ending. I don't actually have FetLife friends, but he didn't like the idea of me getting some when I "suggested" it since he seems to think it's fine for him. Trying to save the original monogamous marriage.


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## FeministInPink

OK, first things first: is he on FetLife because he's actually into BDSM, or is it just because he thinks it's an easy way to find local women to have sex with? Because vanilla men tend to assume that all women in the BDSM/kink scene are easy, and there are a lot of guys not actually into kink that are only there to chat with women and look at their naked pictures. You need to figure out the answer to that question.

Regardless of the answer, if he's serious about fixing your marriage, he needs to stop logging into FetLife. If kink/BDSM is really a thing for him, the two of you can create a couples' account at later time when your marriage is fixed. But right now, he needs to shut it down to show that he's serious and dedicated to making this work. If he's not willing to do that for you, I would say don't even bother with counseling or waiting until July, because he already has one foot out the door.

Would you be willing to experiment with him in this area? If you are open to try new experiences with him that he wants to try, it could go a long way in bringing the two of you back together.


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## DayOne

FiP is right. Fetlife is very much 'kid in a candy store', and it could become easy to lose yourself in there, neglecting your real life and real woman. 

He has to quit, kick his obsession or run the risk of losing you to these 'virtual women'. 

He has a choice to make, or you will...


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## KrisAmiss

Thanks for your comment; you seem to know more about this area than me. It's hard to say what he's after. The small bits I know, I can't imagine him doing. He seems to find tattoos and "weird haircuts" (these are tame things he's mentioned) quite an erotic step up from his boring vanilla life. He's talked about the danger in it and ropes... He seemed ready to "date" when I first caught him in all this, but we have a child in crisis (you're doing THIS when I'm dealing with THAT?) so I got really pissed off and demanded attention. It seems I went quickly to a forgiveness stage and it's hard to say why now. Hmm. 

To me it seems it'd have to be more of a fantasy even though he seems like he was going to try to make it real. I might be willing to try new things, but I don't think he wants me in it. I don't really even know what the "new things" would be. But I hate to think that the only reason he wouldn't go the FetLife route is just because he doesn't think he could, ya know? Like I'm just the runner up?


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## FeministInPink

KrisAmiss said:


> Thanks for your comment; you seem to know more about this area than me. It's hard to say what he's after. The small bits I know, I can't imagine him doing. He seems to find tattoos and "weird haircuts" (these are tame things he's mentioned) quite an erotic step up from his boring vanilla life. *He's talked about the danger in it* and ropes... He seemed ready to "date" when I first caught him in all this, but we have a child in crisis (you're doing THIS when I'm dealing with THAT?) so I got really pissed off and demanded attention. It seems I went quickly to a forgiveness stage and it's hard to say why now. Hmm.
> 
> To me it seems it'd have to be more of a fantasy even though he seems like he was going to try to make it real. I might be willing to try new things, but I don't think he wants me in it. I don't really even know what the "new things" would be. But I hate to think that the only reason he wouldn't go the FetLife route is just because he doesn't think he could, ya know? Like I'm just the runner up?


The bolded concerns me. BDSM done properly should never actually endanger the participants. Anyone experienced in BDSM knows this. He's dabbling. It turns him on, but he hasn't done any research into what it actually entails. Once he learns what goes into responsibly practicing BDSM, he may back way down on this.

FetLife can be a great tool of you're actually in the community. But he's using it as an outlet to escape from the reality of his life an marriage, and possibly as a route to an affair. But if you guys are going to try any of this stuff, then Fet will be a great resource for you. 

He needs to back off of Fet for right now, because the two of you need to work on re-establishing trust and intimacy within your relationship. Because he was messaging women behind your back on Fet, right now that's a sore spot for you and it's a symbol of his almost-infidelity (or actual infidelity). You guys shouldn't even talk about practicing or trying anything BDSM-wise until you have re-established trust and intimacy. Trust is CRUCIAL in a healthy dynamic in BDSM; you should never engage in BDSM with someone whom you don't fully trust. Also, your husband sounds woefully uneducated and lacking in knowledge regarding BDSM, and you should also not play with him because of that, because a top who doesn't know what he's doing can seriously injure his bottom. Once you feel more comfortable in the relationship again and you guys are healing, then I would recommend going to some 101/Beginner BDSM classes to learn.

He may have gone to Fet because he doesn't feel that he can come to you with that. And that really speaks to the emotional chasm between the two of you right now. He doesn't feel emotionally safe with you right now, which is why he didn't share this.


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## FeministInPink

You're welcome, BTW.


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## KrisAmiss

It was an escape/route to an affair/something that caught his eye in porn...

Yes, I see that trust would be huge. 

In some ways, if he'd have a "normal" affair, it'd be easier. I "get" love and attraction. To think of him soliciting himself on those sites, then having virtual relations with an untold number of women makes me sick, especially since I found his profile talking of trust and what a good friend he is. That all this is supposed to be meaningless and not real... sigh. It's hard to compete with a computer? and yet it seems pathetic at the same time. Then there's that extra element that it's not just normal sex but XYZ!

I did read a tale of a man addicted to fetlife. Doctor said alot of people who are depressed are drawn to it. He went on anti-depressants and in time, cured his addiction and had much better relations with his wife. That could be the case here.


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## WilliamM

So the reference to gay was not about anything specific? Or was there some reason you thought he might be not straight?

"I must have stripped him of his manhood. We are not homophobes and I didn't consider the gay question an insult."


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## Vinnydee

Tough decision. My marriage went a whole different way. I too was into BDSM and other women. In my case, my wife decided to join me in my sex life and made it hers too. She even got her girlfriends to have sex with me to keep it under our roof and eventually got her best friend to engage in BDSM activities with me for 30 years while also being my wife's lover. Kind of weird and even unbelievable, I know but that is how we handled it. My wife has said many times that had we decided to be monogamous, we would have divorced a long time ago. Instead we chose our marriage over monogamy. In my case it was easy because my wife was discovering her bisexuality. 

It is difficult when the two spouses have different sexual needs. It seems that the only two solutions are for one to accept/participate with the other or leave each other. Some, maybe many, husbands would not be OK with their wife having sex with other women. Most wives would not find women for their husband so that he does not start having sex with strangers who may try to take him away. We are married for 44+ wonderful years despite our non traditional marriage. There were many reasons sexually to part ways but we both accepted each others needs and found a great solution in a shared girlfriend that fulfilled both of our needs as we fulfilled her need for a family that loves her.

When I was 19 I dated a few married women. For some reason they were attracted to me. Maybe because I was buff and fresh out of combat in with the Army. In any event, it was not uncommon for them to say that they think their husband is gay. The real reason in one case was that the husband was having an affair and he did not want to have sex with his wife. In another case, the husband was masturbating to porn so much that he was never horny when his wife was and could not perform anyway due to excessive masturbation. Last but not least, are the husbands who get so into porn and fetish stuff, that regular sex with the wife is not stimulating. I cannot enjoy vanilla sex. I only enjoy fetish sex but am lucky enough to have a wife willing to join me in my fetishes. Most she enjoys but some she just indulges me. So I would not be too quick to think he is gay. 

What you need to do is have a frank conversation as my wife and I did early in our marriage. We both were honest about our sexual needs and desires. We have always found a way to accommodate both of our sexual needs. Sometimes we were very monogamous and sometimes not so much. What we did was to work at finding a middle ground. I finally stopped excessive masturbating which really helped. Now my wife says I am smothering her in love, but I make her feel like the most desirable woman in the world and she giggles when just a touch of her hand stirs me to action.

No guessing, no trying to figure it out, get to the heart of the problem. When it comes to sex too many are afraid to say what they feel. Perhaps an outside professional can help in this regard. As long as there is love on both sides, you can fix things once you understand each other. Good luck.


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## DayOne

FeministInPink said:


> The bolded concerns me. BDSM done properly should never actually endanger the participants. Anyone experienced in BDSM knows this. He's dabbling. It turns him on, but he hasn't done any research into what it actually entails. Once he learns what goes into responsibly practicing BDSM, he may back way down on this.
> 
> FetLife can be a great tool of you're actually in the community. But he's using it as an outlet to escape from the reality of his life an marriage, and possibly as a route to an affair. But if you guys are going to try any of this stuff, then Fet will be a great resource for you.
> 
> He needs to back off of Fet for right now, because the two of you need to work on re-establishing trust and intimacy within your relationship. Because he was messaging women behind your back on Fet, right now that's a sore spot for you and it's a symbol of his almost-infidelity (or actual infidelity). You guys shouldn't even talk about practicing or trying anything BDSM-wise until you have re-established trust and intimacy. Trust is CRUCIAL in a healthy dynamic in BDSM; you should never engage in BDSM with someone whom you don't fully trust. Also, your husband sounds woefully uneducated and lacking in knowledge regarding BDSM, and you should also not play with him because of that, because a top who doesn't know what he's doing can seriously injure his bottom. Once you feel more comfortable in the relationship again and you guys are healing, then I would recommend going to some 101/Beginner BDSM classes to learn.
> 
> He may have gone to Fet because he doesn't feel that he can come to you with that. And that really speaks to the emotional chasm between the two of you right now. He doesn't feel emotionally safe with you right now, which is why he didn't share this.


QFT.

And, crumbs. :grin2:


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## KrisAmiss

The gay thought was cuz he wasn't interested in having sex with me. Yet before we were married, we talked about his "gay" attributes like he's very neat, he can decorate, stupid stuff like that. He & his college buddies would act gay for fun, which I never experienced before (but my boy scout son says is common) and go dancing at gay bars. I had no stake in it and was like, are you sure you're not gay? But perhaps most perplexing is when gay guys seemed so drawn to him. A bf of a friend walked straight to him, as if he knew him. Another cleaned our house and talked to "us" a long time. I said, he liked you... Hubby says, shuddup... I was invisible (certainly to the gay guy) and thinking wtf is happening here? Gaydar?

So why did I marry someone I thought could be gay? He convinced me he wasn't. But the thought obviously creeped back in.

Vinnydee, somehow you've managed to live so many men's best fantasy. Thing is, I dated a guy that it wouldn't have surprised me in the least to find him doing fetlife. He was into sex, into me, into oral sex and trying new things - the opposite of my husband. And now I've lived half my life with someone who'd rather talk dirty to exhibitionist strangers and pretend to do things to them that I would've never guessed he'd find erotic.

Sex is the one area you "can't" satisfy outside marriage. So freakin complicated


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## MJJEAN

I was a kink late bloomer. I didn't fully understand and accept my needs until I was in my late 30's. For me and many like me, BDSM is an emotional and psychological need. It can be very difficult to admit and understand kink to yourself and can be terrifying to discuss in detail with a spouse. A lot of kinksters would rather let their needs go unmet than to be thought of as defective by their loved ones.

What your husband did with other women was wrong. If you're willing to forgive him and try to save the marriage it might involve you being willing to fulfill his kink needs. Are you willing to do some of what he wrote about? Beyond that, would you actually enjoy doing some of what he wrote about?

Also, check out Esinem on YouTube. If you go to his videos list he has 2 on rope safety. Never use ropes when drunk, check periodically to make sure the person tied has good limb circulation, the locations of nerves to be avoided when wrapping, etc. If your H is interested in bondage he really needs to research safety or he could accidentally permanently damage himself or someone else.


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## TheTruthHurts

I don't understand. You don't have sex with your H, he's having several EA's and did I read he had PA too? He continues to pursue a sex life without you and you have a sexless, emotionally hollow marriage. Did I get that right?

So what could you even want out of this other than "out"? Seriously.

Oh - and he's definitely with gay or bi. NO straight guy dances with dudes at a gay bar. NONE. Zilch. Zero.

Probably wants to keep up appearances. I guess that makes you Richard?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_Up_Appearances


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kivlor

MJJEAN said:


> I was a kink late bloomer. I didn't fully understand and accept my needs until I was in my late 30's. For me and many like me, BDSM is an emotional and psychological need. It can be very difficult to admit and understand kink to yourself and can be terrifying to discuss in detail with a spouse. A lot of kinksters would rather let their needs go unmet than to be thought of as defective by their loved ones.
> 
> What your husband did with other women was wrong. If you're willing to forgive him and try to save the marriage it might involve you being willing to fulfill his kink needs. Are you willing to do some of what he wrote about? Beyond that, would you actually enjoy doing some of what he wrote about?
> 
> Also, check out Esinem on YouTube. If you go to his videos list he has 2 on rope safety. Never use ropes when drunk, check periodically to make sure the person tied has good limb circulation, the locations of nerves to be avoided when wrapping, etc. If your H is interested in bondage he really needs to research safety or he could accidentally permanently damage himself or someone else.


It's really difficult for a lot of people to discuss this stuff in real life. I didn't get into any kink until a few years ago, and I'm still pretty cautious about it. And I'd still not be exploring it, and would just do without starting tomorrow if I thought it would get out around town. Nope. Not dealing with that kind of stuff in a town where everyone knows everyone.

OP's H needs to get his stuff together though. Going to other women for this should be a deal breaker, and he should know better. 

OP, is there a reason your sex-life died years ago? If you're going to try R, that might be a good place to start... Why didn't he address this with you, instead seeking outside the marriage? Fear? Or was he just looking for variety?


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## KrisAmiss

MJJEAN said:


> BDSM is an emotional and psychological need. It can be very difficult to admit and understand kink to yourself and can be terrifying to discuss in detail with a spouse. A lot of kinksters would rather let their needs go unmet than to be thought of as defective by their loved ones.


Need, in what way? No offense to anyone, but it seems to be a control issue. Hatred of women has crossed my mind. He said, you wouldn't believe how many women want you to hit them. But then again, to each his own - I don't know enough about it and I'll try not to judge. I've never read any of his conversations and he seems to be embarrassed I found out at all. He's never admitted to anything I don't already know from the few pictures/profiles I saw. I asked if he just thinks I wouldn't approve or he's ashamed and he says probably a bit of both. Maybe knowing would be bad for me, but I'm just so curious. I mean, I'm the one who loves sex here! He's never seemed to enjoy giving me oral sex and he's has "rim some" in his extra email account, like that's his specialty and delight? I think I'd love to see any of his creative writing come to life, if only for any of this to make sense.


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## KrisAmiss

Kivlor said:


> It's really difficult for a lot of people to discuss this stuff in real life. I didn't get into any kink until a few years ago, and I'm still pretty cautious about it. And I'd still not be exploring it, and would just do without starting tomorrow if I thought it would get out around town. Nope. Not dealing with that kind of stuff in a town where everyone knows everyone.
> 
> Why didn't he address this with you, instead seeking outside the marriage? Fear? Or was he just looking for variety?


I like hearing from you kinksters. I had no knowledge or interest in all the online sex stuff available. I guess I see the appeal of anoymous sexual exploration. Yet he didn't like when I said that he was soliciting himself to women. I mean, what else is it? These weird sexual personal ads and his was very relationship based. The nice guy, cheating on his wife.

He'd given up on our marriage but was riding thru until the kids left home.

concentrate on the relationship, concentrate on the relationship, concentrate on the relationship. CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN WHY THIS FET STUFF HAS DERAILED ME SO MUCH? I guess it's cuz I don't know what he wants and at the possible end of a marriage that has most often left me sex-starved, he's trying to burst into a fetish filled world? Where was that interest and energy when I needed it?!

PS Anger/resentment caused him to lose attraction to me. I am "impossible to please." To his credit he does do alot for me. But what did I need?


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## Kivlor

KrisAmiss said:


> I like hearing from you kinksters. I had no knowledge or interest in all the online sex stuff available. I guess I see the appeal of anoymous sexual exploration. Yet he didn't like when I said that he was soliciting himself to women. I mean, what else is it? These weird sexual personal ads and his was very relationship based. The nice guy, cheating on his wife.
> 
> He'd given up on our marriage but was riding thru until the kids left home.
> 
> concentrate on the relationship, concentrate on the relationship, concentrate on the relationship. CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN WHY THIS FET STUFF HAS DERAILED ME SO MUCH? I guess it's cuz I don't know what he wants and at the possible end of a marriage that has most often left me sex-starved, he's trying to burst into a fetish filled world? Where was that interest and energy when I needed it?!
> 
> PS Anger/resentment caused him to lose attraction to me. I am "impossible to please." To his credit he does do alot for me. But what did I need?


I think there is a narrow value in anonymously using sites like FetLife. Anonymous use of such sites can allow you to discuss things you couldn't otherwise, or even look into ideas on exploring your kink--this second option is the real value IMO.

I think regarding your H, he needs to answer why he was going to other women online to explore this stuff. Was he scared to talk to you about it? Worried you'd lose respect for him, or leave him? 

How are you "impossible to please"?


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## MJJEAN

KrisAmiss said:


> Need, in what way? No offense to anyone, but it seems to be a control issue. Hatred of women has crossed my mind. He said, you wouldn't believe how many women want you to hit them. But then again, to each his own - I don't know enough about it and I'll try not to judge. I've never read any of his conversations and he seems to be embarrassed I found out at all. He's never admitted to anything I don't already know from the few pictures/profiles I saw. I asked if he just thinks I wouldn't approve or he's ashamed and he says probably a bit of both. Maybe knowing would be bad for me, but I'm just so curious. I mean, I'm the one who loves sex here! He's never seemed to enjoy giving me oral sex and he's has "rim some" in his extra email account, like that's his specialty and delight? I think I'd love to see any of his creative writing come to life, if only for any of this to make sense.


For me, the kink meets my need for security and intellectual/emotional closeness. 

I am a "switch". I can be both Dominant and submissive though I lean more toward submissive. When I am in submissive mode I am able to completely relax physically and mentally. I surrender control and responsibility and I become entirely free to just feel. No thinking going on at all. I belong to my DH. He owns me, possesses me. I am beloved and safe. When I am in Dominant mode my DH belongs to me. I am free to do what pleases me, to indulge my whims. I own him, possess him, and he is so deeply mine that he surrenders himself, lock, stock, and barrell. Either way, Dominant or submissive, it`s intense on so many levels. I am doing s very por job of describing it.

My DH was raised in an upper middle class conservative family. He was trained to treat women a certain way. He was taught that a man behaved a certain way. He is also a switch and spent years thinking his kink leanings were "bad" or "wrong". I spent years thinking if I told my DH, or anyone else, about my kinks i'd lose respect and be thought of as "weak" and mentally damaged. DH and I have been together 17 years and only started really admitting to our needs and learning to meet them a mere two years ago. It took a lot of faith, trust, and courage to talk about kink to each other. If you want your husband to open up you have to convince him that you won't judge him, won't lose respect for him, won't run screaming from the room to tell everyone you know he's a freak, and that he is safe. Considering he has damaged the trust between you, maybe it would be a good idea to talk about it in therapy with a kink friendly counselor. Who knows? Maybe your current therapist is kink friendly. 



KrisAmiss said:


> I like hearing from you kinksters. I had no knowledge or interest in all the online sex stuff available. I guess I see the appeal of anoymous sexual exploration. Yet he didn't like when I said that he was soliciting himself to women. I mean, what else is it? These weird sexual personal ads and his was very relationship based. The nice guy, cheating on his wife.
> 
> He'd given up on our marriage but was riding thru until the kids left home.
> 
> concentrate on the relationship, concentrate on the relationship, concentrate on the relationship. CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN WHY THIS FET STUFF HAS DERAILED ME SO MUCH? I guess it's cuz I don't know what he wants and at the possible end of a marriage that has most often left me sex-starved, he's trying to burst into a fetish filled world? Where was that interest and energy when I needed it?!
> 
> PS Anger/resentment caused him to lose attraction to me. I am "impossible to please." To his credit he does do alot for me. But what did I need?


If you want my totally uneducated opinion, he stopped having sex with you and "gave up" because he wasn't getting his needs met and basically couldn't stand to have sex without getting his needs met. A "so close, yet so far" type torture for him. The kicker is it's his own damn fault for not communicating his needs to you. I think that is also where the resentment comes from. i think he resents you for not meeting needs you didn't even know he had.

I don't know about your H, but when my kink needs haven't been met in some time, the needs become stronger until it eventually spills over into other areas of our marriage. I suspect your H's need became so great he let it spill over into other areas of your marriage and vented it on the internet with other women. Absolutely a huge betrayal and the wrong thing to do. He should have come to you with this long ago.

Part of the appeal of going online for this sort of thing is acceptance. Kinksters tend to be accepting of other people's kinks as long as everything is consensual and legal. Another part is that it doesn't really matter what a stranger thinks of you, but it matters very much what your spouse thinks of you, so you can be more open online.


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## KrisAmiss

MJJEAN said:


> I am doing s very por job of describing it.
> 
> Considering he has damaged the trust between you, maybe it would be a good idea to talk about it in therapy with a kink friendly counselor. Who knows? Maybe your current therapist is kink friendly.
> 
> If you want my totally uneducated opinion, he stopped having sex with you and "gave up" because he wasn't getting his needs met and basically couldn't stand to have sex without getting his needs met. A "so close, yet so far" type torture for him. The kicker is it's his own damn fault for not communicating his needs to you. I think that is also where the resentment comes from. i think he resents you for not meeting needs you didn't even know he had.
> 
> Part of the appeal of going online for this sort of thing is acceptance. Kinksters tend to be accepting of other people's kinks as long as everything is consensual and legal. Another part is that it doesn't really matter what a stranger thinks of you, but it matters very much what your spouse thinks of you, so you can be more open online.


A 26 year marriage is too complicated to explain it all but in a nutshell we had love sex at the start. Pure vanilla. He greatly reduced sex apparently because I quit praising him for doing xyz. I was overwhelmed with kids, we had issues. He was angry. My friend's DH wants to do her every day regardless of their issues, but mine was repulsed. I don't know how I went on so long.

I WISH I could have this kind of sex. I have! Am I kinky? I'm totally a submissive and have many happy memories of getting lost in it...with an old bf. I def loved when he took control. Sadly my husband and I haven't had great sexual chemistry. He's really uptight. Early on, I laughed (with pleasure) and he scolded me which yes, indicates some insecurities. As I've tried to understand this virtual infidelity, I asked something and he said, I know - I'm so inhibited...

So he's able to have this online personna (as I've surmised, haven't actually seen it) of a confident dom. And maybe he could take that into real life with accepting people who don't know him?

Clearly we need to work on our relationship first. But this other thing is so out of left field and he's not wanting to discuss details. We're disconnected in so many ways. :crying:


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## KrisAmiss

Kivlor said:


> How are you "impossible to please"?


In the beginning, I'd brag about how much he does around the house, etc. He's a super hard worker, a perfectionist. He's great with money, takes care of everything. Honestly he's just about perfect. Highly successful.

Except when it comes to emotions. He says I changed when I had kids. He became an ass. Much stress. We're two people raising kids together. We live in a dream home, have a beautiful family, everything we ever wanted.

I'd give it all away (well, not the kids)... He's spent much of the past 20 years pissed off, stressed out, and certainly working working working. It's all for us, no doubt. That's not want I want. I want my original husband back, the one who loved spending time with me. 

Perhaps neither of us exist anymore.:crying:


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## WilliamM

My wife is submissive.

Very submissive. So much so, it really bothered me.

She was in counseling with shrinks for 8 years. I had her ask about that too. In the end I just learned to be a good Master.

But I am very dominant, and was at the beginning. That's why we got married. Because I didn't need her to come on to me, I guess. No other boy had ever shown an interest in her because she was so submissive, and actually not interested in guys at all. Except me, for some reason.

Mary likes to be tied up. Mary likes some kink. I had to learn what she likes because she never talks to me. She says a good Master can read her mind, and figure out what she needs without ever having to ask. Now, my wife has no reference for her opinions. She just makes stuff up as she goes. Whatever suits her fancy.

Before we got married sex was naughty and really turned her on. After we got married, she needed something else to get her motor running. Naughty. That's my girl. She really feels sorry for you, because your Dominant guy failed to see what you needed.

She says I was easy to train since I am so wildly Dominant to start with. I may have had a hangup or two, but we didn't notice them.

You two have a lot of broken bridges. Your man needs to step up.

You are hurt because he is turning to that web site without your inclusion. He is seeking other people. It's all bad. There is no doubt about that. You should be hurt. You have every right to be horribly hurt. How do you get from here to a good place?

I have a pair of leather wrist cuffs for Mary. When I buckle them on her little wrists she is half way to coming, just from that action alone. She has torn up other pair over the years. We have been doing this for almost 40 years.

I can't imagine how someone who is timid with the gorgeous babe he has available to him could ever be Dominant with anyone else, but you can't underestimate the power of anonymity. 

Does your husband want to try to fix things?

It is so hard. The Master should be the one who is the one who is right and just and never sways from honoring his slave with fidelity and compassion. So much power resides in the Dominant. The submissive has power, but the Dominant has to respect and love, and mostly must honor the covenant.

But that's just my opinion. I too have no reference, and I just make this stuff up out of my own wacked out imagination. You need to be respected, and loved, and cherished. That I believe.


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## KrisAmiss

WilliamM said:


> My wife is submissive.
> 
> Very submissive. So much so, it really bothered me.
> 
> She was in counseling with shrinks for 8 years. I had her ask about that too. In the end I just learned to be a good Master.
> 
> But I am very dominant, and was at the beginning. That's why we got married. Because I didn't need her to come on to me, I guess. No other boy had ever shown an interest in her because she was so submissive, and actually not interested in guys at all. Except me, for some reason.
> 
> Mary likes to be tied up. Mary likes some kink. I had to learn what she likes because she never talks to me. She says a good Master can read her mind, and figure out what she needs without ever having to ask. Now, my wife has no reference for her opinions. She just makes stuff up as she goes. Whatever suits her fancy.
> 
> Before we got married sex was naughty and really turned her on. After we got married, she needed something else to get her motor running. Naughty. That's my girl. She really feels sorry for you, because your Dominant guy failed to see what you needed.
> 
> She says I was easy to train since I am so wildly Dominant to start with. I may have had a hangup or two, but we didn't notice them.
> 
> You two have a lot of broken bridges. Your man needs to step up.
> 
> You are hurt because he is turning to that web site without your inclusion. He is seeking other people. It's all bad. There is no doubt about that. You should be hurt. You have every right to be horribly hurt. How do you get from here to a good place?
> 
> I have a pair of leather wrist cuffs for Mary. When I buckle them on her little wrists she is half way to coming, just from that action alone. She has torn up other pair over the years. We have been doing this for almost 40 years.
> 
> I can't imagine how someone who is timid with the gorgeous babe he has available to him could ever be Dominant with anyone else, but you can't underestimate the power of anonymity.
> 
> Does your husband want to try to fix things?
> 
> It is so hard. The Master should be the one who is the one who is right and just and never sways from honoring his slave with fidelity and compassion. So much power resides in the Dominant. The submissive has power, but the Dominant has to respect and love, and mostly must honor the covenant.
> 
> But that's just my opinion. I too have no reference, and I just make this stuff up out of my own wacked out imagination. You need to be respected, and loved, and cherished. That I believe.


Wow, you've made me cry. I haven't even been sexually active for 40 years and Mary's had you all along. Thank you for showing me that BDSM (whatever that is) isn't just for the mentally deranged. He's hiding so much what he likes about it that I wonder what it could possibly be?

He said he wants to fix things but kept going back on fetlife. It's been a week and a half now that he hasn't (as far as I know) but 6 or 7 weeks since he said he'd quit. I conceded our relationship had been bad for too long and we could try to work it out and he even said I showed grace & mercy... yet he couldn't stop. So we'll see if he stops now. Meanwhile his *interest* sure has piqued my curiosity.

I'd love to meet a man like you. I'd prefer that I've misunderstood my man all along or that he's now ready to come out of his shell... but I'm losing more hope every day. It's very sad. Thank you for writing me.


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## FeministInPink

@KrisAmiss The people I've met in the kink community have been some of the kindest, warmest, most accepting people I have ever met. Most are very self aware, and many are in healthy, committed relationships.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Spicy

I have no input on the BDSM part as I am uneducated about it.

I am just a bit confused on if you feel you have been cheated on or not?
Plus from your initial post it sounded like he did have a physical affair in addition to his online cheating, did he?
I wonder how much more you don't know about....

What do you want? Do you want to stay with him? What changes (if any) are each of you willing to make to improve your marriage/intimate life with each other? What does he want?


----------



## Kivlor

KrisAmiss said:


> In the beginning, I'd brag about how much he does around the house, etc. He's a super hard worker, a perfectionist. He's great with money, takes care of everything. Honestly he's just about perfect. Highly successful.
> 
> Except when it comes to emotions. He says I changed when I had kids. He became an ass. Much stress. We're two people raising kids together. We live in a dream home, have a beautiful family, everything we ever wanted.
> 
> I'd give it all away (well, not the kids)... He's spent much of the past 20 years pissed off, stressed out, and certainly working working working. It's all for us, no doubt. That's not want I want. I want my original husband back, the one who loved spending time with me.
> 
> Perhaps neither of us exist anymore.:crying:


How did he become an ass?

How did you change?


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## WilliamM

Mary and I have had our problems. But we've managed to survive them because we don't keep any real secrets from each other, and because we have a policy I call Love First. 

After all the counseling Mary went through we finally discovered she was bisexual. She had been traumatized by members of her church to straighten her out. I remembered I love Mary, and Love comes First. 

No matter what happens I remember Love comes First, before other things. We meet each other's needs, and overlook a lot of garbage that other people might think should matter because love comes first. It's tough to describe. 

Mary is a compulsive liar. She did discuss it with her shrinks, but it wasn't a focus and they seemed to think it would be a lifelong struggle. Every time I catch her lying I just sigh and remember that Love comes First. 

I would spank her, but that would just encourage her.

Your husband is messing up. If he could just get it together I imagine the sex life you two could have could be really good. 

Personally I never have hope for guys, but I always attempt to overcome my natural disgust at male behavior because I hope guys will step up and be the men their women need them to be. So, how to get your husband to be the husband you need. They have to stop blaming their wife's behavior. 

Mary never initiates sex. I never expected her to, and I have no idea why any guy would care. She once said she seduces me every time because she never says no.

I remember the first pair of wrist cuffs I got for her in 1979. When I took them out of the package she had a shocked look on her face, but put her arms out and lowered her head, and just waited. I laughed. She looked up at me and smiled, then looked back down and kept waiting. 

A man has to step up. He has to be compassionate, and care what his wife needs, but he can't wait around. I don't know how to make a man know that if he doesn't. 

I never ask Mary what she wants. I try things, and judge by her reaction. She has said only weak men ask. That may be just her lone opinion, of course. But I have seen other women express that idea. 

We wish you luck. If your husband will try, there is some great fun for you both. You can overcome so much, if you can communicate and he will hold you. Always hold you. 

Because of my wife's compulsive lying we have many strategies in place to help. It's so easy though, since I am the Master. 

I control everything.

Although I tried to get her to post here on her own, I would have to set up the account. But even with that help she cried last time I asked and said why was I being so mean to her. I still think it would be fun for her to post.


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## WilliamM

My wife, in her typical style, suggested I post for her:

Bondage Discipline SadoMasochism

It is a catch all for a lot of behaviors. Mary likes to be held by the wrists, and sometimes the ankles, or tied down by the wrists. Bondage. Mary likes to be spanked. Discipline, with maybe a touch of Sadomasochism. When she was in her 30's and 40's her butt could take more than my hand. Now she gives up before I do.

She reads erotic literature about it. I read scholarly articles about it. From our reading our participation is very limited, and lightweight, so to speak.

Nearly every interaction with Mary has some pain value to her. If it doesn't hurt at least a little, she has no interest. So I massage her for an hour, to get her warmed up. Then I nibble on her. Hickies on the neck are a form of sadomasochism, but they are not my thing. She does love a line of small hickies down both sides of her neck, so I have done it at times, but too public for me. I nip her arch, make her jump. I bite her thigh. Every now and then I bite her labia, as I perform oral sex on her. That touch of pain, just the right amount, sends her through the roof. They say it is natural for some people. Mary is multi-orgasmic, and sometimes that little jerk of pain is like a kick start. 

So, Mary hates to write. She does not know how to type, and struggles with typing. But she authorized and watched over this post. She wishes you well, and hopes you get what you need.

William and Mary


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## KrisAmiss

Spicy said:


> I have no input on the BDSM part as I am uneducated about it.
> 
> I am just a bit confused on if you feel you have been cheated on or not?
> Plus from your initial post it sounded like he did have a physical affair in addition to his online cheating, did he?
> 
> What do you want? Do you want to stay with him? What changes (if any) are each of you willing to make to improve your marriage/intimate life with each other? What does he want?


OF COURSE I FEEL CHEATED UPON. No actual contact needed. Beyond the ONS which was from A.shley M site, he's interacted sexually with dozens and dozens of women. It's so easy online. That is real to me. Having him cry to women about ME while he listens to their woes? What a selfish lust fest. 

And yet somehow we came to decide to give our marriage a shot because we've never worked in earnest before (obviously). We had a great thing once and we still do as far as our beautiful family goes. We're both not willing to live without having a real couple relationship though. Time will tell.


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## KrisAmiss

Kivlor said:


> How did he become an ass?
> 
> How did you change?


Children is the short answer, but it's really cuz neither of us put the other in top priority anymore. I heard about that God, spouse, kids, etc priority system before but we didn't put it practice. If you want to substitute spirtuality or self or something for God, hmm... I think there's much wisdom in this idea.


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## KrisAmiss

WilliamM said:


> My wife, in her typical style, suggested I post for her:
> 
> Bondage Discipline SadoMasochism
> 
> It is a catch all for a lot of behaviors. Mary likes to be held by the wrists, and sometimes the ankles, or tied down by the wrists. Bondage. Mary likes to be spanked. Discipline, with maybe a touch of Sadomasochism. When she was in her 30's and 40's her butt could take more than my hand. Now she gives up before I do.
> 
> So, Mary hates to write. She does not know how to type, and struggles with typing. But she authorized and watched over this post. She wishes you well, and hopes you get what you need.
> 
> William and Mary


You kinksters are so cute.

idk how long he spent in his erotic phone picture taking, kik texting sessions (and I wonder how they juggle all that) but we'll see if he has time for me.


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## Spicy

KrisAmiss said:


> OF COURSE I FEEL CHEATED UPON. No actual contact needed. Beyond the ONS which was from A.shley M site, he's interacted sexually with dozens and dozens of women. It's so easy online. That is real to me. Having him cry to women about ME while he listens to their woes? What a selfish lust fest.
> 
> And yet somehow we came to decide to give our marriage a shot because we've never worked in earnest before (obviously). We had a great thing once and we still do as far as our beautiful family goes. We're both not willing to live without having a real couple relationship though. Time will tell.


Thanks for the clarification. I agree you have been cheated on A LOT. I am in the camp that online affairs are still cheating. So, if you had made a decision as a couple to put this behind you, and move on trying again, he almost immediately returned to his online cheating. So I guess at this point you have to decide how many get out of jail free cards he deserves. 

Personally, I don't see this ending well. I think you will waste a lot of time, effort and expense on reconciling. He will keep cheating because that is what he does, and he hasn't had the consequences for him to feel like he will lose you if he doesn't stop. He has the best of both worlds. Eventually you get sick of it, and will end up divorced and super bitter about it down the road. 

He already has lots strikes against him. How many more he gets is up to you.


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## WilliamM

Thank you!

Mary says it is very hard to find the right person to trust. She cannot offer more advice than to try to find what you need. Don't let your husband shame you about what you like. That's vital. She was hesitant about allowing me to tell so much about her because sometimes when she mentions some of it people treat her like she's crazy.

She just had a hysterectomy, and she laughs and says nobody can call her hysterical any more.

Mary is 61 years old. Her birthday is in 16 days. She will start collecting Social Security benefits! I count down the days to her birthday every year. I have never forgotten it.


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## KrisAmiss

Spicy said:


> Personally, I don't see this ending well. I think you will waste a lot of time, effort and expense on reconciling. He will keep cheating because that is what he does, and he hasn't had the consequences for him to feel like he will lose you if he doesn't stop. He has the best of both worlds. Eventually you get sick of it, and will end up divorced and super bitter about it down the road.
> 
> He already has lots strikes against him. How many more he gets is up to you.


I've put the final foot down on fetlife and have demanded I see until further notice receipts, credit card statements, phone & PC (with passwords), PC History. If he reacts unfavorably (he's a control freak and actually said "I'm not used to answering to anyone.") -- then I guess I'll be free to be a kinkster in my own right. I don't need to waste my time trying to figure out what is going on.


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## WilliamM

It's tough to think what he could have to talk about with someone the age of his children.

Mary remembers a time one of our son's friends hit on her, and how shocked our son was. She thought it was hilarious. Or should I say hysterical?

Having complete access to everything is important. If he hides anything you need to end it.

There is another thread where the wife tried to have access to everything to get past a problem, and the husband went out and bought another laptop and kept that one secret from his wife. Men. What can you do with them?

Personally I never believed in having any secrets from my wife, and I have always shared every account, device, application, and anything else, with my wife. Always. And she has no reason to need or want it, it's just the way I am. I think anyone who would want to hide something from a spouse is just creepy.


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## WilliamM

And I don't buy that bit about not being used to answering to anyone. If that were true, why is he so cowardly that he needs to go online instead of explore with you?

I have been doing this with Mary since we got married in 1973, in one form or another, and I didn't even know about that web site until this thread. Ignorant me. Mary is better than a stupid web site.

Web sites are for people who can't face up to their own reality, and hide behind the anonymity so no one knows. He is ashamed, and he probably wants to make you ashamed. That's why Mary said in big bold capital letters, practically yelling at the screen, "Don't let him shame you for what you want!"

Look at how many threads on here where the woman is talking about just wanting to improve their sex life and the man in the relationship calls his wife sex crazed or some such stupidity. Men jump to **** shaming in a heartbeat to cow women into obedience to being servants instead of sex partners.


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## FeministInPink

@WilliamM I think you just might be my new favorite poster on TAM.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

WilliamM said:


> *Web sites are for people who can't face up to their own reality*, and hide behind the anonymity so no one knows.


The bolded part, I would agree with you, if the user is married and their spouse believes them to be monogamous and their spouse is being cut out of their reality with secrecy and lies. Yes, I think some Fetlife users who fit this description are hiding from their reality (and creating a pseudo reality, which they also hide) on many levels.

But for single people or people who are in open-type relationships (many words can be used to describe these), Fetlife can be a really cool place.

It is not so odd to think that regular, everyday people who have jobs that are somewhat visible or kids of a certain age who might catch on, might be kinky and might not want that fact known. Just because you don't want to shock your kids, parents and colleagues by presenting them with information about your sex life doesn't mean you can't face up to your own reality. As I'm sure you and Mary would agree since you are also kinky. 

The vast majority at Fetlife are normal people who are kinky, who openly live it up on the website (similar to how Facebook is used by some), and who embrace their own sexuality. People who feel this way enjoy interacting with other people who embrace theirs as well. Some of us can't really embrace our sexuality openly to everyone in our lives, but that doesn't mean we're hiding. Speaking for myself - I just don't want to make people feel weird around me OR make them think I'm just promiscuous and using Fetlife or kink as a way to F anyone I can find or whatever. I mean, people really are still very weirded out by this stuff. If I catch a hint that someone would be accepting of my sexuality on those topics without judging me or suddenly thinking I might just strip for them on the spot, if they are honestly just curious, or if they are a little kinky themselves, I will share about my kinky self, no problem. I've done this many times.

I'm actually very lucky that most of my friends and a lot of my family know that I'm kinky and are ok with it, don't think I'm promiscuous, and don't think I'm weird. They just kind of get me.

Also, I have met people IRL from Fetlife and have attended events in public places. I am not hiding who I am by just living through Fet's website, I actually make connections sometimes (not for sex, though). My point here being that many, many of the people on Fet are also IRL practitioners of kink and aren't just trolls on a website with fake pictures.

Kris...why don't you just create a profile at Fet and have a look around. Have you done that before? I will warn you in advance, it is full of extremely graphic sexual pictures and videos, and there are ads of extremely weird sex gadgets (the images of which can quickly get burned in your mind). But with a little bit of savvy, you can learn to ignore all of that and just read or look at things that interest you. I am suggesting this because you sound like you need and want to reconnect a little bit with your sexual self, maybe even a kinky self. To go take a look around does not commit you to anything, not even money. You only have to pay to be a member if you want to be able to watch or post videos. 

Fet is also full of very normal, every day looking people. It is not full of porn stars and models (though there are plenty of both). The majority though are just average people. To me, average people are beautiful, so I enjoy looking at a lot of pictures. I've learned that if I open someone's profile and go to their pictures, their gallery will tell me right away if I want to look any further or not. Graphic, sexual, painful, ass stuff....too much of any of that and I just skip out immediately. But sometimes I'll find a gallery full of interesting, beautiful people (IMO), who are doing interesting things (IMO). I also find people's profiles themselves interesting. I can take a lot more "graphic" details when reading about them than I can in looking at pictures. IE: If someone is into knife play, I can read with interest about them and why they are into that. But no way could I look at their pictures and be ok with people cutting each other up and bleeding everywhere. Bleah.

You do not have to interact with anyone, you don't even have to turn your PM's on. It is a safe place to look around...what you will see will be largely up to you being diligent in what you want to AVOID seeing, and always look away quickly and just move on. You'll eventually see things that seem similar to how you feel and think or want to feel and think.

I am not condoning your husband's use of Fet behind your back or any of the cheating he has done. I'm really only focused on you because your story is interesting, and I think you are evolving.


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## WilliamM

I admit I was overzealous. When issues come up where someone keeps something from a spouse, as the modern vernacular goes, that triggers me. Secrets from a spouse just makes me crazy.

My wife and I have done all kinda crazy stuff, so we can't condemn a kink web site.

Just the secrets from a spouse.

It just makes me crazy. 

My wife reminds me we flirted with a woman online once back in 1992, who we happened to meet on a BBS. But Mary sat on my lap and made sure we both enjoyed it. I never did anything without her in my lap, though. Whew. 

Please forgive my dissing the net, when I meant only to dis the secrecy.


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## Faithful Wife

I agree on dissing the secrecy. Boo!


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## Spicy

KrisAmiss said:


> I've put the final foot down on fetlife and have demanded I see until further notice receipts, credit card statements, phone & PC (with passwords), PC History. If he reacts unfavorably (he's a control freak and actually said "I'm not used to answering to anyone.") -- then I guess I'll be free to be a kinkster in my own right. I don't need to waste my time trying to figure out what is going on.


Good move! You are heading in the right direction. If your hope is to save your marriage, I hope he heads in this direction with you sweetheart!


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## KrisAmiss

Spicy said:


> Good move! You are heading in the right direction. If your hope is to save your marriage, I hope he heads in this direction with you sweetheart!


You guys are so nice to tell me all this. It's a world I never entered, but of course married 26 years, I've never done online dating in its most patriarchal form. The idea of picking a mate from a catalog strikes me odd.

The saddest part is I don't think he's with me. We've had problems a long time and we've endured them. We've given up at different times but we've held it together. I'm afraid he gave up for good this time and went on this insane online sex spree, looking for love. He failed to find it, though he did find FetLife incredibly interesting and fun. When caught, he was surprised I cared so much, later appreciating my grace. Said we could try, our best chance at Ultimate Happiness, being together.

We had a good week or two but then words and actions and attitudes weren't matching and I was confused. Finally he's put down FetLife, fine to submit to whatever checks I want, but in so many words, he's just not into me anymore and has been unhappy a long time. So have I, so I get that. But, but... I've gone through all this (the shocking finale, plus so many troubled years) and he's not even going to try? I mean, maybe he's smarter than me and it's been over. He doesn't want to hurt me (and I believe that's sincere), but doesn't see a future. That's the way he seemed to be leaning so at least he's starting to say the words, even though they hurt.

I hear the dating pool for women my age really sucks. But I guess it only takes one (for me ;-0)


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## WilliamM

You are a very special and wonderful woman. Remember that.

Never settle for anything less than what you deserve. You are worth it.


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## MJJEAN

It's hard to find a decent partner, period. Even harder when you're kinky. FetLife helps kinksters connect with complimentary kinksters. When DH and I were learning about kink we went to a munch and a fetish event in the same month. There were tons of perfectly normal people out to dress up and have a good time. Many of them were in the 35 or over age group and some were single and looking for a permanent romantic partner.

If you're going to embrace your own kink needs, I suggest going on Fetlife yourself and looking for local meet ups or munches. The munch we went to was at a local upscale chain bar. The organizers rented the events room, so we were all free to discuss our kinks and fetishes without freaking out the vanilla folk. There were about 40 people in attendance and everyone was very friendly and welcoming. Some were regular local munch attendees and some were new like us. We ate, drank, chatted, laughed, and talked kink for a few hours and me some really fun people. If your local munches are like ours, you'd have a blast!


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## DayOne

Faithful Wife said:


> The bolded part, I would agree with you, if the user is married and their spouse believes them to be monogamous and their spouse is being cut out of their reality with secrecy and lies. Yes, I think some Fetlife users who fit this description are hiding from their reality (and creating a pseudo reality, which they also hide) on many levels.
> 
> (Agreed. Plenty of pickup artists, of both genders, lurk on FL. I'm sure many of them are NOT sharing their Fet..Life with their partners. But treat the site as a a porn gallery, or hook up joint. A kink Ashl*y Mad**** site.)
> 
> But for single people or people who are in open-type relationships (many words can be used to describe these), Fetlife can be a really cool place.
> 
> (And also for couples who are looking for new idea's and "how DO we do THAT?!" tutorials. Me and M'Lady browse, together, for that reason! )
> 
> The vast majority at Fetlife are normal people who are kinky, who openly live it up on the website (similar to how Facebook is used by some There's a recent post on FL describing how FB and FL are the same! ), and who embrace their own sexuality. People who feel this way enjoy interacting with other people who embrace theirs as well. Some of us can't really embrace our sexuality openly to everyone in our lives, but that doesn't mean we're hiding. Speaking for myself - I just don't want to make people feel weird around me OR make them think I'm just promiscuous and using Fetlife or kink as a way to F anyone I can find or whatever. I mean, people really are still very weirded out by this stuff. If I catch a hint that someone would be accepting of my sexuality on those topics without judging me or suddenly thinking I might just strip for them on the spot, if they are honestly just curious, or if they are a little kinky themselves, I will share about my kinky self, no problem. I've done this many times.
> 
> I'm actually very lucky that most of my friends and a lot of my family know that I'm kinky and are ok with it, don't think I'm promiscuous, and don't think I'm weird. They just kind of get me.
> 
> Also, I have met people IRL from Fetlife and have attended events in public places. (As have we. And it's amazing how normal they are. Munches aren't debauched orgies, but opportunities for regular people to hang out, chat about normal stuff, enjoy a coffee, or beer)I am not hiding who I am by just living through Fet's website, I actually make connections sometimes (not for sex, though). My point here being that many, many of the people on Fet are also IRL practitioners of kink and aren't just trolls on a website with fake pictures. ( :smthumbup: )
> 
> Kris...why don't you just create a profile at Fet and have a look around. Have you done that before? I will warn you in advance, it is full of extremely graphic sexual pictures and videos, and there are ads of extremely weird sex gadgets (the images of which can quickly get burned in your mind) (No SHI... nola! Some of those devices give me the heebies. That goes where?!?!? :surprise. But with a little bit of savvy, you can learn to ignore all of that and just read or look at things that interest you. I am suggesting this because you sound like you need and want to reconnect a little bit with your sexual self, maybe even a kinky self. To go take a look around does not commit you to anything, not even money. You only have to pay to be a member if you want to be able to watch or post videos (or have full access to pages like K&P).
> 
> Fet is also full of very normal, every day looking people. It is not full of porn stars and models (though there are plenty of both). The majority though are just average people. To me, average people are beautiful, so I enjoy looking at a lot of pictures. I've learned that if I open someone's profile and go to their pictures, their gallery will tell me right away if I want to look any further or not. Graphic, sexual, painful, ass stuff....too much of any of that and I just skip out immediately. But sometimes I'll find a gallery full of interesting, beautiful people (IMO), who are doing interesting things (IMO). I also find people's profiles themselves interesting. I can take a lot more "graphic" details when reading about them than I can in looking at pictures. IE: If someone is into knife play, I can read with interest about them and why they are into that. But no way could I look at their pictures and be ok with people cutting each other up and bleeding everywhere. Bleah.
> 
> You do not have to interact with anyone, you don't even have to turn your PM's on. It is a safe place to look around...what you will see will be largely up to you being diligent in what you want to AVOID seeing, and always look away quickly and just move on. You'll eventually see things that seem similar to how you feel and think or want to feel and think.
> 
> I am not condoning your husband's use of Fet behind your back or any of the cheating he has done. I'm really only focused on you because your story is interesting, and I think you are evolving.


Great Post! :smthumbup:

Oh, and 'crumbs' >


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## Faithful Wife

KrisAmiss said:


> I hear the dating pool for women my age really sucks. But I guess it only takes one (for me ;-0)


Whoever told you this was wrong.


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## WilliamM

By the way, as a nearly worthless addition, let me say that from what I have heard the events mentioned for kink are designed for meetings, not as sex parties.

As I've said Mary and I have done all kinds of crazy things. We've been to swingers parties. They are different things. 

At the BDSM events our experience was there was no expectation for sex. Like any convention, though, you can be sure there are hookups! That's gonna happen at ComicCon too.

Good luck 

Be yourself!


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## DayOne

WilliamM said:


> By the way, as a nearly worthless addition, let me say that from what I have heard the events mentioned for kink are designed for meetings, not as sex parties.
> 
> As I've said Mary and I have done all kinds of crazy things. We've been to swingers parties. They are different things.
> 
> At the BDSM events our experience was there was no expectation for sex. Like any convention, though, you can be sure there are hookups! That's gonna happen at ComicCon too.


Exactly. A safe first step, for a nervous newbie, might be a "Vanilla" (aka 'Nilla) munch. Usually in a bar, or coffee house. A chance to meet people, without the pressure of what can and does happen in a regular munch.


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## RideofmyLife

FeministInPink said:


> He needs to back off of Fet for right now, because the two of you need to work on re-establishing trust and intimacy within your relationship. Because he was messaging women behind your back on Fet, right now that's a sore spot for you and it's a symbol of his almost-infidelity (or actual infidelity). You guys shouldn't even talk about practicing or trying anything BDSM-wise until you have re-established trust and intimacy.


This right here!! You said he was sexting and scored once in real life. If he's had an affair, THAT needs to be addressed! Use the counseling sessions to determine whether you think you want to reconcile with him, because if your trust is gone, NO WAY should you entertain kinky stuff with him. I'm a kinkster and love it but could never do it with someone like your H. First things first. Address the affair. Reconcile if you're both willing. THEN MAYBE dip a toe into kink. 

And by the way, lots of good info on this thread about kink. Fetlife 101 classes are a must if you decide to try it. You'll learn about etiquette and manners. You can go to play parties and just watch if you're not comfortable participating. Depending on how it's set up and who's hosting (private parties can be wild!), you can observe lots of different stuff. Hubby and I went to one private party and saw electric, impact, needle, and fire play all in one night. No sex at all and everyone in tuxes or formal kink wear. Really wild!


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## Faithful Wife

WilliamM said:


> By the way, as a nearly worthless addition, let me say that from what I have heard the events mentioned for kink are designed for meetings, not as sex parties.


There is everything from meetups for just social interaction, to full on sex parties, to orgies and gang bangs.

So it isn't like there is NOT those other types of meetings, there certainly are.

But the meetups called a Munch are truly just a social meet up in a public place. Some kinksters feel lonely and isolated in their kink, so meeting others who can share and understand without trying to "hook up" with each other is a really good thing. Though yes, people might hook up at a Munch, it is certainly not what is in intended.


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> There is everything from meetups for just social interaction, to full on sex parties, to orgies and gang bangs.
> 
> So it isn't like there is NOT those other types of meetings, there certainly are.
> 
> But the meetups called a Munch are truly just a social meet up in a public place. Some kinksters feel lonely and isolated in their kink, so meeting others who can share and understand without trying to "hook up" with each other is a really good thing. Though yes, people might hook up at a Munch, it is certainly not what is in intended.


I met Real Estate (my boo and partner in kink) at a singles munch! It was a munch for singles to get together and hang out... but no one EVER hooked up at or immediately after, the munch itself was just to socialize, as are pretty much all munches. If the point is something other than socializing, it won't be called a munch. At a munch, there is sometimes that one lecherous guy that hits on every new female to walk in the door, but if you talk to the organizers beforehand and let them know that you're new and why you're attending, they will take you under their wing and protect you from the odd lech.


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## WilliamM

Yes, great information here.

I haven't investigated the web sites for kink, myself. Two reasons. The web didn't exist when my wife let me know she needed this. And while Mary's interest in this kink is wildly erotic, mine is more of an academic nature in order to be a better lover for my girl. It works perfect for me because seeing Mary turned on is what turns me on.

I've taken her to a couple BDSM events which were like conventions. Now you guys have me thinking I should take her to some others. She didn't want to buy anything, but she did have a lot of fun marveling over the displays.

I have to agree with the people who say a 45 year old single woman would be able to find dates fairly easily. No idea about the quality of the guys. It might depend on your figure. When Mary was 50 we used to go to parties just because we enjoyed the ambiance, and Mary is an exhibitionist, and she had a really tight little body then, and she was getting hit on all the time.


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> *I met Real Estate (my boo and partner in kink) at a singles munch!* It was a munch for singles to get together and hang out... but no one EVER hooked up at or immediately after, the munch itself was just to socialize, as are pretty much all munches. If the point is something other than socializing, it won't be called a munch. At a munch, there is sometimes that one lecherous guy that hits on every new female to walk in the door, but if you talk to the organizers beforehand and let them know that you're new and why you're attending, they will take you under their wing and protect you from the odd lech.


Awwww...that's awesome!

I've met some really cool people at munches but no one I would date. Not saying I wouldn't date one though if one was really my type of guy!

Though I know already when I go to a munch that no one there will really be into the kind of kink I'm into....so it is just a social exercise for me. 

I am not bothered by the old lech's. They are who they are. I guess I'm just used to that kind of thing, munch or elsewhere. Lech's be lech's!


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## KrisAmiss

WilliamM said:


> Yes, great information here.
> 
> I have to agree with the people who say a 45 year old single woman would be able to find dates fairly easily. No idea about the quality of the guys. It might depend on your figure. When Mary was 50 we used to go to parties just because we enjoyed the ambiance, and Mary is an exhibitionist, and she had a really tight little body then, and she was getting hit on all the time.


Thanks for making me smile in the midst of my turmoil. It'd be hilarious if I became a kink queen through all of this. A munch, hmmm? My next life begins.

It's a whole nuther thread, but the quality of guys is my concern. Plus my aging figure. But also the tricky part where men are aging too... It'd almost be a miracle to find someone with all the right stuff. But, it does happen.


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Awwww...that's awesome!
> 
> I've met some really cool people at munches but no one I would date. Not saying I wouldn't date one though if one was really my type of guy!
> 
> Though I know already when I go to a munch that no one there will really be into the kind of kink I'm into....so it is just a social exercise for me.
> 
> I am not bothered by the old lech's. They are who they are. I guess I'm just used to that kind of thing, munch or elsewhere. Lech's be lech's!


I wasn't really interested in him at the munch... I was macking on another guy who was keeping to himself at the bar, who we will call Professor, and who seemed really into me at the time. Real Estate and I had a friendly conversation, but I didn't feel like he was into me. Plus, Professor was in my age range (only a year or two older than myself), and Real Estate is 10 yrs older than myself, so I kind of ruled him out automatically. Both of them sent me friend requests, but it was Real Estate who actually followed up and engaged me in conversation, and invited me out to brunch that Saturday. And at brunch, where we were could talk one on one, instead of surrounded by other people... that's when I actually started to fall for him. And now here we are, more than a year later. 

/threadjack


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## KrisAmiss

FeministInPink said:


> It was Real Estate who actually followed up and engaged me in conversation, and invited me out to brunch that Saturday. And at brunch, where we were could talk one on one, instead of surrounded by other people... that's when I actually started to fall for him. And now here we are, more than a year later.
> 
> /threadjack


Aw, I love a good love story.

Thanks to those of you who helped me take the kinky part out of the equation. The sad part is that even knowing how wrong this was (covering this activity from me, lying to women about his age, marital status and who knows what else), I'm still considering staying together. He's admitted he's been a good father, but not a good husband (past x number of years.) He's not sure about staying either, obviously he already has had his foot out the door. But so much history and deep connections... I'm reading Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. Up to question 5...


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## WilliamM

We all have a lot of issues.

Whatever you decide, we wish you well.

William and Mary


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## FeministInPink

Agreed with William and Mary. 

If you both want to fix things and are all in, it's possible to save the marriage. It will never be as it once was; it will be like building a brand new relationship. But it is possible. Only you can say for sure if it is worth all the hard work.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## kay8930

I am in similar situation with my wife, i am kinky and i like to explore, wife on the other hand is not. I have tried talking to her but it doesn't help because she is not interested in kinks i come off weird.
I know she loves me, but she is "plain blank vanilla" I am struggling now because she does not like simple things as "oral sex" we have been married for 5 years and to be honest she has given me oral sex about 10 times and i have to beg for it or if its special occasion. She wont initiate giving or receiving oral, if i don't say anything she will be just fine. I am very fetish and want to do everything with my wife but i don't think i should force someone into sexual practices they don't like, and if i did i would not enjoy it. If i could just forget about my kinks/fetishes to make my marriage work i would, i tried but the desire keeps getting greater each time. Certain fetishes are not easily discussed because they can come off very abnormal to who is not opened to fetishes. Now i am no longer desiring sex with spouse, i have mentally moved on and accept its just not her. Its very hard to stay in a relationship when you mentally and physically need something the other person wont give. I don't enjoy vanilla sex she doesn't enjoy kinks none of us is wiling to bend, at the same time i know she doesn't want divorce, i don't want to cheat.


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## FeministInPink

Quick story, just because we're talking about kink in marriage. When I was married, I wanted to try some light kink... I thought I would like it, but I wasnt sure, but I wanted to at least try. I bought a novelty intro kit, you know the kind--blinfold, fur-line cuffs, a light flogger. I thought he would be game because I knew he dated a girl who was super into it, and according to him, he had done everything under the sun with her.

Well... he refused to even try any of it, not even the blindfold. He said, essentially, "Been there, done that. It doesn't do anything for me, so I'm not interested, not going to do any of that."

I was absolutely CRUSHED. He was the only man I had ever trusted enough to express this curiosity and to try anything kinky. I was devastated. (So I totally know how you feel, @kay8930.)

Well, we separate... we agree that we're not going to see other people, because we haven't decided to divorce at this point. We're just taking some space. Within a few weeks of moving out, he orders a whole buttload of kinky toys and BDSM accoutrements from Amazon. Like, everything you can think of, short of actual furniture. And I'm thinking, WTF??? Turns out he bought all this stuff because a mutual friend just split from her husband, and he heard she was into kink... and he wanted to be prepared, because he was going to make a play for her.

(I bust out laughing, nearly in tears, when I heard that, because she is WAY out of his league. She wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole.)

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## FeministInPink

Actually, he was going to get her to come over, and he was going to get her drunk, and see if she would go for it. I might as well be honest about his intentions.

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## TheTruthHurts

FeministInPink said:


> Actually, he was going to get her to come over, and he was going to get her drunk, and see if she would go for it. I might as well be honest about his intentions.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Was there a madonna thing with you? Based on your screen name maybe you were too girly or something he couldn't go there with you? Guess it doesn't matter...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KrisAmiss

kay8930 said:


> I am in similar situation with my wife, i am kinky and i like to explore, wife on the other hand is not.
> i don't want to cheat.


It's not similar in that if he ever had a kinky thought in 26 years, he never told me. I would be willing to explore and did in other relationships. I suppose I'm *submissive* because I never initiated much new. But take that back, I did once and he thought I was out of my mind.

Which is why in part all this activity has blown my mind.

I commend you for not cheating. It hurts to the core.

Perhaps if you make it kind of a drama, like you're playing a role? In pondering the fetlife the past six weeks, I thought, Hmm... I like acting. I can see where this could be fun. Unfortunately I'm not sure if my marriage is going to last. After all, he's been acting like it was over for a couple years. :-(


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## KrisAmiss

FeministInPink said:


> Actually, he was going to get her to come over, and he was going to get her drunk, and see if she would go for it. I might as well be honest about his intentions.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


That's a sad story. So it does seem less about the kink than it does about having sex at all with a person. It's rejection. What a ****. (But don't take that literally!)


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## FeministInPink

TheTruthHurts said:


> Was there a madonna thing with you? Based on your screen name maybe you were too girly or something he couldn't go there with you? Guess it doesn't matter...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Might have been. Before we were married, he was much more adventurous. It seemed like he flipped a switch when we married. Or he was intentionally denying me what he knew I craved as a way of punishment. Who the **** knows? Whatever it was, it was his problem. 

And he just got re-married, so he's her problem now. Poor thing. She has no idea what's coming.

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## FeministInPink

KrisAmiss said:


> That's a sad story. So it does seem less about the kink than it does about having sex at all with a person. It's rejection. What a ****. (But don't take that literally!)


It is sad, isn't it? But don't feel bad for me, I learned a lot from the experience. It's made me who I am today.

It's more sad for him, I think. He's so messed up, and he refuses to acknowledge or do anything about it. So he's just in this horrible cycle, and he makes himself miserable because of his dysfunctional behavior.

And I've found myself a kinky, pervy guy who wants weird sex all the time. My story has a happy ending.  

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## WilliamM

Mary was an early bloomer I guess.

She taught me to hold her by the wrists on our second date. She insisted on being called my sex slave before we were married a year. I bought the cuffs for her after 4 years of marriage. The first thing Mary did when she started counseling when we had been married 5 years was get her psychologist to ask me into a session to tell me to step up and accept the gift Mary was giving me; herself.

Mary is a sub.

Blindfolds, wrists, ankles, spankings, candles. And more. Yeah, she likes it.

I do believe the Madonna complex keeps a lot of guys from being willing to do things like this with their wives.

Please be well.


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## KrisAmiss

WilliamM said:


> I do believe the Madonna complex keeps a lot of guys from being willing to do things like this with their wives.
> 
> Please be well.


So I looked up the Madonna complex. Wow. These ideas were brewing in my mind all along. I think we are a textbook example. He admits our problems started with the birth of our first child. I always wondered if it was a mother issue. I am that maternal Madonna. His mother was/is a sociopath, verbally & physically abusive, controlling, abandoning, domineering, guilt tripping, vile. He treats her well though he tries to minimize time spent with her. He protects our kids from her. After I had a breakdown, he protects me from her. She's been the worst part of my marriage. Flirting with women on fetlife half his age who want to get knocked into next week during sex? It's not like he kept ramping up our juicy sex life and needed more. If not for me, we wouldn't have had three kids.

Not everyone understands the true sacrifices a mother makes. For me, I was all in to be the best mom I could be...

In a couple days, my MIL arrives and we'll pretend all is well while gritting our teeth. It's so poetic. Happy Mother's Day.


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## WilliamM

I protect my wife from my mother. My mother isn't that bad, mean, opinionated. I told everyone my home is Mary's sanctuary. My mother was not tolerated in our home. 

We took our kids to meet see my parents so they could get to know my father. But I kept Mary under my eyes and we left as soon as Mary showed the slightest discomfort. Later we just traded the kids at a restaurant.

Screw traditions. All I care about is the well being of my family; my children and Mary. 

Be well


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## KrisAmiss

Things haven't felt right, mostly negative vibes from him. I read about affairs on her (Welcome to TAM) and it was helpful to see all the crud I've felt and stupid stuff he's done are apparently normal. What isn't good to see is he has no remorse, just feels "bad" he's hurt me but otherwise is good with it.

I also learned how to search google history, stuff you delete on your device but google hangs onto. He also left his email open and I found one extremely juicy email soliciting his 28 yo quest just a month ago, well after we "agreed" to quit that and try to work it out or at least SEE if we could work it out. Since I had her email, I gave her a buzz. I'd already sent her something in FetLife telling her he was married, etc. Vera nice, I might add. She didn't know and doesn't care for men treating women poorly. She'd already ignored him anyway, since he seemed "too interested" in her when she didn't really know him.

So it verified that kinky folks can indeed be "old-fashioned" and my husband even after two months isn't sure what he wants. I feel like I've been riding a bucking bronco. I have such stress. And it's like it's in HIS court. As if! My therapist tells me to make it MY choice. See a lawyer.

I've felt SORRY for him. I feel most sorry for our kids. But he's really cold. Really cold and lying and not wanting me to have access to all his juicy stuff and burdened by having to talk about all this. 26 years is a long habit to break, even when it hasn't been perfect. I just put up with his irritating mother!!! And we seemed perfectly happy. Things. Not always as they seem.


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## WilliamM

We wish you luck. You certainly deserve more fun and love than you are getting!

I was going to say you deserve what you want to get, but Mary told me to say it just the way I typed it above. Wow, how bossy for a submissive girl! And now she is laughing about it. I think she feels some comradery with you.

So while it is likely you are seeing it is going to be tough, be strong. Be well.

Mary and William


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## KrisAmiss

WilliamM said:


> Wow, how bossy for a submissive girl! And now she is laughing about it. I think she feels some comradery with you.
> 
> So while it is likely you are seeing it is going to be tough, be strong. Be well.
> 
> Mary and William


I think I've deserved more fun for a long time. This is probably a gift, but there's so much to unravel and I don't have a crystal ball and I think my husband is mental.

Anyway, thanks for your support. You two are adorable.


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## KrisAmiss

So, I went on my family trip and my husband was perfect. Until I asked a question. He said he "sees FetLife everywhere" and wants divorce. He's deriding me for 2 times when he was checking work emails that I was waiting on him, as I had nothing to do. (It was vacation so I didn't have anything to do, but I said nothing about it. I mean, geez.) I said it's not fair for him to fault me for what he thinks I'm thinking. Next day he says he'll do MC. Back home we did a couple social events as a normal couple.

He likes the BSDM bondage stuff. I say, I could try that. But when he mentions it, it's tatoos and face piercing (which I don't have) that he talks about. I shared that Madonna complex thing before and he said, unlikely. Though he did jokingly say at this point, there's this Madonna thing... Clearly it's other women he wants, all tied up.

I'm astounded I'm being so patient with all this crap but it's my last ditch effort to save this thing. I'm "breaking the rules" of attempted infidelity and being a loving wife, trying to give the attention he seems to crave. I think I'm kinda pissing him off cuz he can't complain about me and I won't break up with him either. He's not completely sure why he keeps snapping and demanding divorce. Supposedly he's quit seeking other women, but the desire is still there. I'm happy to know that. He is fighting the urge, but knowing if the opportunity arises, he'd be gone most likely - I don't want to live that way.

How to play this? I've looked at FetLife events and imagined showing up at one with him. They describe you can observe or make your own "scene", meet others, etc. It seems this would only feed his fever. I told him I could go, but worry he'd wander off somewhere. Reading about BDSM, it's not as off the wall mental as I thought. Not that I thought much about it. Fifty Shades of Grey was a very stupid movie. Anyway, I still think he'd prefer to hook up with a tatoo'd younger babe. I'm so accommodating, but not that much. I can't imagine going poly would work out.

On one hand, he's trying. But I don't know yet if it's going to work out.


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## Jessica38

KrisAmiss said:


> Thanks for your comment; you seem to know more about this area than me. It's hard to say what he's after. The small bits I know, I can't imagine him doing. He seems to find tattoos and "weird haircuts" (these are tame things he's mentioned) quite an erotic step up from his boring vanilla life. He's talked about the danger in it and ropes... He seemed ready to "date" when I first caught him in all this, but we have a child in crisis (you're doing THIS when I'm dealing with THAT?) so I got really pissed off and demanded attention. It seems I went quickly to a forgiveness stage and it's hard to say why now. Hmm.
> 
> To me it seems it'd have to be more of a fantasy even though he seems like he was going to try to make it real. I might be willing to try new things, but I don't think he wants me in it. I don't really even know what the "new things" would be. But I hate to think that the only reason he wouldn't go the FetLife route is just because he doesn't think he could, ya know? Like I'm just the runner up?


You are the "runner up" because it's impossible to compete with fantasy women who are stroking his ego and giving him fantasy sex without any strings attached. 

Your husband has betrayed your trust by continuing online affairs with other women. I'd suggest downloading a copy of Surviving an Affair and following the steps outlines in the book. If he wants to save this marriage, he needs to follow the steps to a T. There is no room for negotiation. You need full transparency. The fact that he travels overnight means that your lifestyle is very conducive to a secret second life, which is what your husband is engaging in. Part of recovering the marriage means no more nights away. Either you travel with him or he finds another job. 

I'm sorry you are going through this. Your husband is continuing to do it because he knows you will continue to tolerate it. If I were you, I'd set a higher bar in my marriage by telling him you're unwilling to live like this.


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## uhtred

Its really hurtful to turn someone down when they open up to you with a sexual fantasy that they would like to try. If its at all possible, I think someone should give it a try - if or they eally can't bring themselves to do it, then try to turn it down as nicely as possible. 

It doesn't matter that it didn't do anything for *him*, it would have done something for *you*. 




FeministInPink said:


> Quick story, just because we're talking about kink in marriage. When I was married, I wanted to try some light kink... I thought I would like it, but I wasnt sure, but I wanted to at least try. I bought a novelty intro kit, you know the kind--blinfold, fur-line cuffs, a light flogger. I thought he would be game because I knew he dated a girl who was super into it, and according to him, he had done everything under the sun with her.
> 
> Well... he refused to even try any of it, not even the blindfold. He said, essentially, "Been there, done that. It doesn't do anything for me, so I'm not interested, not going to do any of that."
> 
> I was absolutely CRUSHED. He was the only man I had ever trusted enough to express this curiosity and to try anything kinky. I was devastated. (So I totally know how you feel, @kay8930.)
> snip


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## FeministInPink

uhtred said:


> Its really hurtful to turn someone down when they open up to you with a sexual fantasy that they would like to try. If its at all possible, I think someone should give it a try - if or they eally can't bring themselves to do it, then try to turn it down as nicely as possible.
> 
> It doesn't matter that it didn't do anything for *him*, it would have done something for *you*.


Exactly. 

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## KrisAmiss

@SunCMars - Now that I've been on here awhile, I'm often amused by your poetic summaries. I looked to see if I received one in my trauma, but alas, did not. Surely you have thoughts?

A lil not-so-kinky update: the man has felt ashamed of his nonsense. He has cut it all, pornography of any kind, and amped up positive marital practices. I said I'd be happy to move into the BDSM realm; he seemed charmed by this but seems to be reluctant to move from fantasy to reality. Says it was fantasy all the way round (that he could ever actually do this stuff he was reaching out to these women to do...) -- this actually seems honest for him. I still don't know exact details of what he was into, but idk if it matters.

Our marriage is much improved. I did some soul searching and realized I was't the perfect wife either. So with both of us playing nice, our relationship is far better than it's been in a long while. I bought some vibrating toys, which oddly I've never owned before. It's all good.


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## CaliRN13

Vinnydee said:


> Tough decision. My marriage went a whole different way. I too was into BDSM and other women. In my case, my wife decided to join me in my sex life and made it hers too. She even got her girlfriends to have sex with me to keep it under our roof and eventually got her best friend to engage in BDSM activities with me for 30 years while also being my wife's lover. Kind of weird and even unbelievable, I know but that is how we handled it. My wife has said many times that had we decided to be monogamous, we would have divorced a long time ago. Instead we chose our marriage over monogamy. In my case it was easy because my wife was discovering her bisexuality.
> 
> It is difficult when the two spouses have different sexual needs. It seems that the only two solutions are for one to accept/participate with the other or leave each other. Some, maybe many, husbands would not be OK with their wife having sex with other women. Most wives would not find women for their husband so that he does not start having sex with strangers who may try to take him away. We are married for 44+ wonderful years despite our non traditional marriage. There were many reasons sexually to part ways but we both accepted each others needs and found a great solution in a shared girlfriend that fulfilled both of our needs as we fulfilled her need for a family that loves her.
> 
> When I was 19 I dated a few married women. For some reason they were attracted to me. Maybe because I was buff and fresh out of combat in with the Army. In any event, it was not uncommon for them to say that they think their husband is gay. The real reason in one case was that the husband was having an affair and he did not want to have sex with his wife. In another case, the husband was masturbating to porn so much that he was never horny when his wife was and could not perform anyway due to excessive masturbation. Last but not least, are the husbands who get so into porn and fetish stuff, that regular sex with the wife is not stimulating. I cannot enjoy vanilla sex. I only enjoy fetish sex but am lucky enough to have a wife willing to join me in my fetishes. Most she enjoys but some she just indulges me. So I would not be too quick to think he is gay.
> 
> What you need to do is have a frank conversation as my wife and I did early in our marriage. We both were honest about our sexual needs and desires. We have always found a way to accommodate both of our sexual needs. Sometimes we were very monogamous and sometimes not so much. What we did was to work at finding a middle ground. I finally stopped excessive masturbating which really helped. Now my wife says I am smothering her in love, but I make her feel like the most desirable woman in the world and she giggles when just a touch of her hand stirs me to action.
> 
> No guessing, no trying to figure it out, get to the heart of the problem. When it comes to sex too many are afraid to say what they feel. Perhaps an outside professional can help in this regard. As long as there is love on both sides, you can fix things once you understand each other. Good luck.


Best Answer Ever! Married 29 years... non-monogamous 2 years... not really BDSM.. I consider it Vanilla Plus LOL.. I get a GF and I indulge my husbands desires, sometimes she joins us... Sometimes her husband too. FYI he smothers me with love too! 

He doesn't sound very respectful of you or your feelings. My H has always been respectful!


----------



## SunCMars

KrisAmiss said:


> It was an escape/route to an affair/something that caught his eye in porn...
> 
> Yes, I see that trust would be huge.
> 
> In some ways, if he'd have a "normal" affair, it'd be easier. I "get" love and attraction. To think of him soliciting himself on those sites, then having virtual relations with an untold number of women makes me sick, especially since I found his profile talking of trust and what a good friend he is. That all this is supposed to be meaningless and not real... sigh. It's hard to compete with a computer? and yet it seems pathetic at the same time. Then there's that extra element that it's not just normal sex but XYZ!
> 
> I did read a tale of a man addicted to fetlife. Doctor said alot of people who are depressed are drawn to it. He went on anti-depressants and in time, cured his addiction and had much better relations with his wife. That could be the case here.


Reading your posts tells me that you are extremely insightful and flexible in your output.... out pouring....expression of love...your envisioned passionate rolls in tall grass.

Are the ideal women..as is @FeministInPink. You matured into this position, and your husband senses that. He is reticent by day,.....at night, is the man in the basement in his underwear....sweaty fingers flailing, pounding out the luscious letters on his keyboard, talking crap. 

On BDSM, he fears turning you into something he knows he cannot fully handle. Opening your Pandora's box. He would freeze up. His mind racing, his manhood afraid to stand up and be counted.
You married a Janus Head. One side an eager but clumsy man, the other side a wild hoary, horny boar. The man [now] takes precedence. 

You need to bring him out of his shell. Slowly. 

By telling him that you will gather your Fetlife pals together, you have exposed the Ghost in the Machine. He is a virtual boar. A pixel voyeur.

Now the Cat is out of the bag.

Get the catnip. Spread some on his nostrils and some on your nether furry fold.

Maybe you need to be the TOP, the DOM.....tie his hands to the bedpost.....whack him with the thistles from that envisioned tall grass we covered ten sentences prior. 

He needs to mature and to bone up. Literally and figuratively.


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## KrisAmiss

SunCMars said:


> Reading your posts tells me that you are extremely insightful and flexible in your output.... out pouring....expression of love...your envisioned passionate rolls in tall grass.
> 
> Are the ideal women..as is @FeministInPink. You matured into this position, and your husband senses that. He is reticent by day,.....at night, is the man in the basement in his underwear....sweaty fingers flailing, pounding out the luscious letters on his keyboard, talking crap.
> 
> On BDSM, he fears turning you into something he knows he cannot fully handle. Opening your Pandora's box. He would freeze up. His mind racing, his manhood afraid to stand up and be counted.
> You married a Janus Head. One side an eager but clumsy man, the other side a wild hoary, horny boar. The man [now] takes precedence.
> 
> You need to bring him out of his shell. Slowly.
> 
> By telling him that you will gather your Fetlife pals together, you have exposed the Ghost in the Machine. He is a virtual boar. A pixel voyeur.
> 
> Now the Cat is out of the bag.
> 
> Get the catnip. Spread some on his nostrils and some on your nether furry fold.
> 
> Maybe you need to be the TOP, the DOM.....tie his hands to the bedpost.....whack him with the thistles from that envisioned tall grass we covered ten sentences prior.
> 
> He needs to mature and to bone up. Literally and figuratively.


Bravo! Thank you for this.


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## FeministInPink

SunCMars said:


> Reading your posts tells me that you are extremely insightful and flexible in your output.... out pouring....expression of love...your envisioned passionate rolls in tall grass.
> 
> Are the ideal women..as is @FeministInPink. You matured into this position, and your husband senses that. He is reticent by day,.....at night, is the man in the basement in his underwear....sweaty fingers flailing, pounding out the luscious letters on his keyboard, talking crap.
> 
> On BDSM, he fears turning you into something he knows he cannot fully handle. Opening your Pandora's box. He would freeze up. His mind racing, his manhood afraid to stand up and be counted.
> You married a Janus Head. One side an eager but clumsy man, the other side a wild hoary, horny boar. The man [now] takes precedence.
> 
> You need to bring him out of his shell. Slowly.
> 
> By telling him that you will gather your Fetlife pals together, you have exposed the Ghost in the Machine. He is a virtual boar. A pixel voyeur.
> 
> Now the Cat is out of the bag.
> 
> Get the catnip. Spread some on his nostrils and some on your nether furry fold.
> 
> Maybe you need to be the TOP, the DOM.....tie his hands to the bedpost.....whack him with the thistles from that envisioned tall grass we covered ten sentences prior.
> 
> He needs to mature and to bone up. Literally and figuratively.


Thanks for the shout-out @SunCMars. I'm nowhere near perfect, I still make mistakes, and am still learning. You're very kind. 

But my real intent on replying is YES some men really do want to be dominated, but they are reticent to admit it or make it known. I cant say if that's the sitch with your hubs or not, but you and he may discover that he actually enjoys it.

I bring this up because... see how he fell in line when you put your foot down? Some men like a firm hand, both metaphorically and literally. Start small/slowly and see how he responds.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## KrisAmiss

FeministInPink said:


> Thanks for the shout-out @SunCMars. I'm nowhere near perfect, I still make mistakes, and am still learning. You're very kind.
> 
> But my real intent on replying is YES some men really do want to be dominated, but they are reticent to admit it or make it known. I cant say if that's the sitch with your hubs or not, but you and he may discover that he actually enjoys it.
> 
> I bring this up because... see how he fell in line when you put your foot down? Some men like a firm hand, both metaphorically and literally. Start small/slowly and see how he responds.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I've been thinking about this. For awhile now! Ha! I've never successfully tried anything different with my below-the-table-BSDM man. All of this has been a shock and he's never told me much about his *fantasies* much less brought me into them. He's not into me sexually, that's all I know. 

BUT! After a month and a half or two of no sexual activity, we got cozy the other day. It was me that attacked him and he responded. Then he did some light slapping which has never happened ever. I'm not sure what came over him and it was kind of nice but he did lose interest sooner than he should have. Then he was affectionate and I thought, hmm, is this going to work out after all? He never said anything positive but said something like, you're not going anywhere...

Yet then I asked him, so we're dating other people now? And he said, yes, as long as he's not a ****. 

The question is important cuz I joined eharmony just to see what was out there and a handful of these guys *smiled* at me, other engaged in banter, but then one has chatted with me quite a bit and he looks good on paper.

I don't know if my DH thinks I'm kidding but I'm not. I'm tired of being yanked around. My therapist thought it'd be easier for me to leave my DH if I have someone waiting in the wings... What a cop out. But whatever works


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## FeministInPink

Sounds like he doesn't thinks you have it in you to leave him, that he thinks you'll accept any crumbs that he gives you.

Prove him wrong.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Vinnydee

I know most will not believe this but others who know me privately will. I got into BDSM when I was slapped hard in the face at 13 for grabbing a girl's boobs on a dare in a swimming pool. From that night on she was in my masturbation fantasies and the only face I saw in my sexual fantasies, still is, but it is the same for my wife. Now for the rest of the story.

I happened to marry this girl's best friend but did not know they were friends until a few weeks into the relationship. I used to flirt with her friend, who often lived with us for various reasons. We saw each other in our underwear, got drunk and stoned together, etc.. The problem was that my wife I do not like vanilla sex and my wife did not like BDSM. One night my wife asked her best friend to have sex with me and she jumped at the chance as did I. I had never mentioned having sex with someone else, or having a threesome. Her girlfriend sexually dominated me in bed. We both knew she was naturally dominant and refused to take the submissive female role in bed. My wife knew that too and set this up because she was afraid that I would cheat on and was having sexual thoughts about her girlfriend. Kill two birds with one stone. I invited my wife to join in after sex with her friend and she did. Long story short my wife learned that her best friend is bi and after having sex with her, she knew she was bi too. A few weeks later my wife's girlfriend moved in with us and was in our life for 30 years. She and I engaged in BDSM sex while she and my wife had the gentle and passionate sex that she liked. I also had vanilla sex with my wife since we do love each other. That was sex three times a night most nights.

So my wife chose a solution that very few wives would chose. She was having sexual fantasies about women secretly so she find the perfect way to fulfill not only my fetish needs but also her desire for sex with her girlfriend. A kink is something you want to do but a fetish is something you have to do. However, contrary to what you see in porn, the overwhelming majority of women prefer a dominant man in bed. So finding a woman is going to be very difficult for him. The internet is filled with men looking for dominant women. I had to train everyone of my dominant female partners. It took years sometimes since I did it in baby steps. Just blind folding me and teasing me. Then a little lite playful spanking which led to tying me down to be spanked so I could not use my hands to cover my butt. Then the whip since her hands got sore from spanking me and so on and so forth. 

Sorry to be so frank but you can make an effort to play with him even if you do not like it. Both of you do things for each other out of love so why not this. The best sex comes from great communication but most are too sky or embarrassed to talk about their sexual needs. No me. I told and I asked and as a result had a great sex life. A good way to start is to search the internet with a form that has all the fetishes listed and you both get to mark if you like it, do not want to do it or willing to try. Then compare notes. A lot of BDSM is psychological anyway. You do not have to dress like a dominatrix either. My wife is the most vanilla bisexual women I knew an all four of my lovers happen to be bisexual. Yet she will pinch or bite my nipples because she knows that is the quickest way to get me to orgasm. She will do some light humiliation talking about my "small" penis. Sometimes she will make sex only about her. She gets to have a few orgasms anyway she wants without reciprocating. Sex focuses only on her at times. A flogger looks bad but does not hurt much so try that. All this stuff can be found online even in the vanilla sex stores. I prefer velcro restraints to leather or metal. Tie him down and then tease him until he gets erect, then stop and repeat. Edge him. That is when you bring him to the edge of ejacuation and then let go of his penis so when he does ejaculate, he does not feel any pleasure and will be hornier than before. Make him do more housework in return for a full orgasm. You do not need a lot of stuff you see in porn or the movies. My wife loves certain things we do and feels empowered in bed. She gets to decide where and when we have sex and if I get to ogasm or not. She keeps me sexually arouse to the point that I cannot do enough for her in hopes of an orgasm soon.

My girlfriend was master of using words to paint picture in my mind that made what she did feel worst than it really was. You can have all sorts of things on the night table like hand cuffs, etc. and then handcuff him and tell him what you plan to do to him until he is sweating from being nervous. At that point he is putty in your hand and he will come to orgams easily. I have been into BDSM for 47 years and during the day I was an ultra conservative businessman. We never let our sexul fetishes bleed into the rest of our marriage. Great communication leads to great sex. After 5-10 years of marriage you need to do something to spiced things up. We even tried a wife swap with our best friends and we all hated it and never did it again. We sometimes shared a bed with another couple but only had sex with our own wives. Topless pool parties and sex games. We managed to keep sex interesting. We put our marriage above all else, even monogamy and vanilla sex. Our friends did not and all got divorced in about their 7th years of marriage. So many of my friends and co-workers complain about their spouses in bed. I never did because my wife knew what I liked and I knew what she liked. Sometimes she indulged me in my fetish even though she did not like it and I did the same to her. We took turns trying each other's fetish. Sometimes once the initial excitement of a fetish passes, the desire for it goes away. My wife knows this so she goes along for a few weeks until I stop getting aroused by it.

Sorry for the long post but I have a lot of experience with fetishes and loved ones. Several women have asked me to teach them how to dominate men in bed. I am a switch which means I can be either the dominant or sub depending on the woman's wishes. Talk about fate. The girl who slapped me ended up being my Mistress for 30 year despite us not seeing each other for many years prior. What are the odds and the odds that she is bi and so was my once virgin wife. I am one of those lucky guys who has everything go his way.


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## KrisAmiss

FeministInPink said:


> Sounds like he doesn't thinks you have it in you to leave him, that he thinks you'll accept any crumbs that he gives you.
> 
> Prove him wrong.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


You're rather clever. I have been somewhat dismayed with myself, puzzled how I accept his behavior. I read my Dear Diary earlier in the year, before I found out about all this stuff and find it rather sad knowing what I know now especially but even without that, sad how he would blow me off, dismiss me and I'd just shrug my shoulders cuz he was so busy. I mean, I'd write about it but not in an angry way, just recording... I guess it's cuz that's what my Dad used to do. He was always busy working at his desk, scowling if I came to bother him.

It's like he is my Dad and I'm the oldest, most responsible child. And Dad doesn't really want to abandon his children so he's conflicted but he's not really happy either. He's doing his time, fulfilling his fatherly obligations, waiting for me to fly the nest.

And OK, Vinnie Dee. Hope you're making a killing with the romance novels, documenting your life.


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## Openminded

People stay in dysfunctional marriages for many reasons. Sometimes it's because they don't want to be the bad guy who ends it. Sometimes it's fear of the unknown. 

My husband, for whatever reason, didn't want to end the marriage but neither did he want to stop cheating and work on our marriage. I was in R longer than you've been married. My greatest regret is that I didn't end it when I should have.


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## KrisAmiss

Openminded said:


> People stay in dysfunctional marriages for many reasons. Sometimes it's because they don't want to be the bad guy who ends it. Sometimes it's fear of the unknown.
> 
> My husband, for whatever reason, didn't want to end the marriage but neither did he want to stop cheating and work on our marriage. I was in R longer than you've been married. My greatest regret is that I didn't end it when I should have.


That's really sad. Longer than I've been married?! Yikes.

It's a wild mix here of up and down. I've felt like he wanted ME to end it cuz for whatever reason, he can't. We're both concerned about finishing raising the kids. And we actually get along. He has seemed depressed so I feel like maybe I shouldn't rush out and do anything to really end it. Yet I've been waiting for his spark, his regret, his surge of love... and it hasn't happened.

But you're right. I'm not getting any younger.


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## SunCMars

KrisAmiss said:


> He's not completely sure why he keeps snapping and demanding divorce. Supposedly he's quit seeking other women, but the desire is still there. I'm happy to know that. He is fighting the urge, but knowing if the opportunity arises, he'd be gone most likely.


On that wind swept Butte out there on some dusty plain in some Western Miilleau sat a wizened Codger.
In a wooden seat in a loft, in a wooden A-Frame.

He looked out the tall glass window, seeing a Great round Moon shoving all other light from the night sky.

He had a letter from a Lass christened Kris, not Kringle but femininely close.

Off the thin, inked parchment he could smell the faint cologne dabbed a twilight before.
......................................................................................................

She asked the Whyfors and the Reasons hence:

Why her dear man did these searching things when he no answer knew.

It was as if he were possessed by a mind not his own.

And the codger wrote just that.

Her man is in a sea of men. When the tide doth pulse and undertow one...many but not all will follow.
He is dangled and jerked by the collective waves that moves the floating lot...and know Ye, no hand be seen.

Eyes be had but eyes not see. The sea is murky and their hands too not free.
The sea of men never see the rip tide, but it drowns them just the same.
The old codger let on, I know this tide, I ride this tide. 
Unlike the others I do not drown.

I am their eyes drowning in their tears.

Just Sayin'


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## SunCMars

Free Will is an Illusion.
Free Wiily is a film.

The Illusion is film thin.....yet many wavelengths of light beyond our Sensed Vision.

Free @KrisAmiss's husband from his trance and led folly?
He like most....have not the optics.

No ladder is tall enough to surmount this curved unto itself Dimensional Prison.

The flesh is limited and finite.
The mind is THE BIG Bang.


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## SunCMars

And this Bohemian Sea is the Charted Lair of the God Neptune.
And that greater god knows the Nomen of kris befallens.
With his Trident that sorry man's balls be jabbed.
And led this man to the shrill-krill depths of debauchery he now lies.


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## SunCMars

FeministInPink said:


> *I was absolutely CRUSHED.* He was the only man I had ever trusted enough to express this curiosity and to try anything kinky. I was devastated. (So I totally know how you feel, @kay8930.)


Oh, Dear!

Lest you never be crushed, henceforth.
..............................................................
Power Point Request---->

Point to that spot that I can insert a Zerk... Fitting for a Queen, as Thee.

And when Thee be down, I puff Thee up.

I shall huff, and puff.
Then fall over!
Too young Thee be, for an old 'colinear-kinkless' Fool like Me.

Have a good day, Dear!


----------



## FeministInPink

KrisAmiss said:


> You're rather clever. I have been somewhat dismayed with myself, puzzled how I accept his behavior. I read my Dear Diary earlier in the year, before I found out about all this stuff and find it rather sad knowing what I know now especially but even without that, sad how he would blow me off, dismiss me and I'd just shrug my shoulders cuz he was so busy. I mean, I'd write about it but not in an angry way, just recording...* I guess it's cuz that's what my Dad used to do.* He was always busy working at his desk, scowling if I came to bother him.
> 
> It's like he is my Dad and I'm the oldest, most responsible child. And Dad doesn't really want to abandon his children so he's conflicted but he's not really happy either. He's doing his time, fulfilling his fatherly obligations, waiting for me to fly the nest.
> 
> And OK, Vinnie Dee. Hope you're making a killing with the romance novels, documenting your life.


You are onto something with the statement [bolded by me] above, and I would encourage you to dig into this more. You might want to do so with a therapist, but if you're good with self-teaching, self-research, and self-discovery, there are a lot of good books out there that cover this topic.

People who grew up in dysfunctional households/relationships with their parents have a strong tendency to, as adults, choose a partner who is similar to the parent (caregiver) with whom they had the most troubled relationship, because their subconscious is still trying to find a resolution to that initial problematic relationship and fix it. They also tend to see their partner's behavior as "normal" and ok, because it was presented them to normal in childhood, and as children they develop unhealthy behaviors/responses in this environment. I've seen this acted out a number of times with friends and family members, myself included (with my ex-husband). The relationship seems to "work" for a period of time, but eventually they come to a breaking point. (Sometimes, not always.)

You are beginning to recognize the patterns, which is a good first step. You can never change the other person. You can't change your husband or his behavior. All you can do is change your own behaviors, unlearn those unhealthy behaviors/responses and learn new, healthy behavior.

In some cases, the partner will change their own behavior in response to your new behavior, but usually this doesn't happen. More often, they become angry at this change--because you are upsetting the apple cart! You are becoming someone they don't like! Because you will no longer accept their bad behavior. The other partner will frequently dig in their heels, and their behavior will become even worse, which is their way of trying to stop your new behaviors and change you back to the way you were before, so THEY don't have to change.

The other partner doesn't want to change. People don't like change, and they don't like it when someone else tries to change them. And the partner will see YOUR change not as an improvement to you, but as a way for you to try to change and control them. With this attitude, of course they will be resistant to change. The resistant partner typically is unaware or unable to recognize that the dynamic in the relationship is unhealthy, but they are aware (at least on a subconscious level) that the unhealthy dynamic, if maintained, gives them the control and the power that they crave. To admit fault in oneself and to open oneself up to change for the better takes away their sense of control, and makes them vulnerable.

The question is, how to you wish to move forward? How do you want to live YOUR life? Basing your decisions, more making them dependent, on your husband's actions (or inaction) still leaves him in control. So leave him out of the equation for the minute. What do YOU want? Do you want to stay in this relationship, with a man who will only give you crumbs and who is so apathetic about his own life that HE can't make a decision about this relationship?

You may not have an answer for these questions right now. You may still be trying to figure these things out for yourself right now, and that's OK. But if you don't have a clear answer in mind for these questions means that you really need to think about what you want out of your life, and what is acceptable to you and what is not.


----------



## FeministInPink

SunCMars said:


> Oh, Dear!
> 
> Lest you never be crushed, henceforth.
> ..............................................................
> Power Point Request---->
> 
> Point to that spot that I can insert a Zerk... Fitting for a Queen, as Thee.
> 
> And when Thee be down, I puff Thee up.
> 
> I shall huff, and puff.
> Then fall over!
> Too young Thee be, for an old 'colinear-kinkless' Fool like Me.
> 
> Have a good day, Dear!


Thanks. The referenced crushing was so long ago now... I'm a much different person these days. I learned so much from the failure of my marriage, and I know now that I am so much stronger than I previously gave myself credit for.

At the time, I was crushed because I felt rejected by the one person I thought would never reject me. I know now that I made a poor choice in mate, and his rejection was based on his inability to be the partner that I needed. I know now that I deserve better than my ex-husband.

And I am happy to say that I have found better. Much, much better, with a wonderful kinky man who has learned as much from his failed marriage as I did from mine.


----------



## KrisAmiss

FeministInPink said:


> The question is, how to you wish to move forward? How do you want to live YOUR life? Basing your decisions, more making them dependent, on your husband's actions (or inaction) still leaves him in control. So leave him out of the equation for the minute. What do YOU want? Do you want to stay in this relationship, with a man who will only give you crumbs and who is so apathetic about his own life that HE can't make a decision about this relationship?
> 
> You may not have an answer for these questions right now. You may still be trying to figure these things out for yourself right now, and that's OK. But if you don't have a clear answer in mind for these questions means that you really need to think about what you want out of your life, and what is acceptable to you and what is not.


This site has been surprisingly helpful and you've been one of my favs, FIP.  I've been pondering all of this, so much that I can't remember how long ago this was or the in's and out's. A lil update...

Don't remember where I left off, but I tried to reconcile with the man. I gave it all I had and he improved but was always still lukewarm. It made me realize somehow I was still blaming myself or at least taking some responsibility, as it takes two to tango. Trying on my part didn't ever push him into the firey love bomb I wanted. He was still interested in others, I was not a priority and he didn't want to talk it through. He said (like a jackass) that I needed to get over him. I really was stuck in this weird place that I knew logically I was well within my rights and good sense to part ways but emotionally I suppose, I was having a hard time letting go. 

My therapist thought it'd be a fine idea to start seeing others so I could more easily let go, see that life goes on. So I talked to the man and he's back to being friends with me (though I don't trust him 100%) and I say, let's see others while the dust settles with my troubled child. I confirmed with him 100 times that he was ok with this. I find it truly sad that I'm such a child, like I'm asking his permission. But whatever, he was fine with it and the experiment began. Online dating... skip to the good part...

This is the most delicious irony. When I found lewd pics on the man's PC, I was completely shocked and had a hard time processing the whole FetLife thing and really young women he was chatting with. TAM folks on this thread helped me see that BSDM isn't completely disgusting and in fact something I've dabbled in and could possibly use more of. So I was chatting with this guy online and he wasn't interested in me cuz I was married, yet he was very nice about it, saying most guys would be dying to meet me. For some reason, I kept chatting with him...

Mr. Yum: U r just chasing me because i put that on my profile. I should take that off.
Me: Gasp! You insult my chasing? Honestly I just like getting to know people. Truly I like the traditional pursuing guy. I'm the submissive. Lol.
Mr. Yum: You probably would make a good sub, but we are probably thinking about two different things.
Me: Intriguing

And so it began... I'm completely smitten with Mr. Yum. I know it's not been a long time with him and we're both floaty and happy in infatuation, but it's so incredibly nice to be with a humble, genuine sexy man. And the light BSDM stuff is pretty awesome. 

Meanwhile, DH went on a date with some chick (older, at least) from fetlife. Told me he felt he was wasting time with her when he really wanted to spend it with me. That he's not sure he wants a divorce. And gawd, he read my journal!!! where I'm giddily going on about Mr. Yum. I honestly didn't think he cared that much. Ha. I don't.

Divorce. I have a friend in a very similar situation and she just texted me and said she's filing this week. I said, I'm right behind you. I'm finally to the place I see clearly, it was nice but it wasn't real nice. I like real nice. Really really nice.


----------



## FeministInPink

KrisAmiss said:


> This site has been surprisingly helpful and you've been one of my favs, FIP.  I've been pondering all of this, so much that I can't remember how long ago this was or the in's and out's. A lil update...
> 
> Don't remember where I left off, but I tried to reconcile with the man. I gave it all I had and he improved but was always still lukewarm. It made me realize somehow I was still blaming myself or at least taking some responsibility, as it takes two to tango. Trying on my part didn't ever push him into the firey love bomb I wanted. He was still interested in others, I was not a priority and he didn't want to talk it through. He said (like a jackass) that I needed to get over him. I really was stuck in this weird place that I knew logically I was well within my rights and good sense to part ways but emotionally I suppose, I was having a hard time letting go.
> 
> My therapist thought it'd be a fine idea to start seeing others so I could more easily let go, see that life goes on. So I talked to the man and he's back to being friends with me (though I don't trust him 100%) and I say, let's see others while the dust settles with my troubled child. I confirmed with him 100 times that he was ok with this. I find it truly sad that I'm such a child, like I'm asking his permission. But whatever, he was fine with it and the experiment began. Online dating... skip to the good part...
> 
> This is the most delicious irony. When I found lewd pics on the man's PC, I was completely shocked and had a hard time processing the whole FetLife thing and really young women he was chatting with. TAM folks on this thread helped me see that BSDM isn't completely disgusting and in fact something I've dabbled in and could possibly use more of. So I was chatting with this guy online and he wasn't interested in me cuz I was married, yet he was very nice about it, saying most guys would be dying to meet me. For some reason, I kept chatting with him...
> 
> Mr. Yum: U r just chasing me because i put that on my profile. I should take that off.
> Me: Gasp! You insult my chasing? Honestly I just like getting to know people. Truly I like the traditional pursuing guy. I'm the submissive. Lol.
> Mr. Yum: You probably would make a good sub, but we are probably thinking about two different things.
> Me: Intriguing
> 
> And so it began... I'm completely smitten with Mr. Yum. I know it's not been a long time with him and we're both floaty and happy in infatuation, but it's so incredibly nice to be with a humble, genuine sexy man. And the light BSDM stuff is pretty awesome.
> 
> Meanwhile, DH went on a date with some chick (older, at least) from fetlife. *Told me he felt he was wasting time with her when he really wanted to spend it with me.That he's not sure he wants a divorce.* And gawd, he read my journal!!! where I'm giddily going on about Mr. Yum. I honestly didn't think he cared that much. Ha. I don't.
> 
> Divorce. I have a friend in a very similar situation and she just texted me and said she's filing this week. I said, I'm right behind you. I'm finally to the place I see clearly, it was nice but it wasn't real nice. I like real nice. Really really nice.


Wow... really? What a half-assed attempt. He doesn't realize at this point that he's going to have to work hard and actually WIN you back. He's tossing you some crumbs, thinking you'll take the bait. You've made it clear that you want to man to pursue, and I don't think that DH has it in him.

(And he read your journal?!? Total lack of respect for boundaries. Jerk.)

Enjoy Mr. Yum for some fun, but I wouldn't recommend getting serious or expecting it to... you're coming out of a bad marriage, and male attention can feel so good after such a deficit, that it can be easy to get swept up and miss red flags. Enjoy this for what it is, and have fun exploring.


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## Tony Conrad

He is actually into mental adultery really and that can be as disastrous as real adultery. Unless he stops it I don't see it improving


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