# 7 yr old daughter plays inappropriately with dolls



## PAgirl

Please help. I am extremely concerned. I have caught my 7 yr old daughter on more than one occasion putting her barbies (ken and Barbie) naked on top of one another. She also does this with her stuffed animals. I have overheard her saying "oh" "yuck" and "lets see if you have babies". She has actually shut her bedroom door and told me not to come in BEFORE playing like this... I would hear this on the other side and then come in and see the dolls like this. Then I gently approached her - what are the dolls doing? She started crying saying leave me alone I don't want to tell you. I pressed a little and she would not tell me. Finally she said they were "hugging". Please tell me this is normal curiousity for her age. I have no idea but I need to know.


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## mablenc

Hmmm you need to find out what's going on, that's not normal especally her crying and what she tells you. Don't be afraid to find out, this is very important that you do this carefully. Also be on her side and believe what she tells you don't dismiss her. If you need to go to a child psychologist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

http://m.parenting.com/entry/view/id/12058#continue

http://www.parentsprotect.co.uk/warning_signs.htm


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## PAgirl

I should mention that I DONT suspect molestation. I couldn't imagine who would do that to her. My husband and I argue A LOT and she told my parents that mommy and daddy never kiss or hug each other and she doesn't think they love each other. I wonder if this is stemming from that somehow?


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## lenzi

PAgirl said:


> I should mention that I DONT suspect molestation. I couldn't imagine who would do that to her. My husband


Start suspecting it.

Sometimes it's the person you think of last.

Don't let your emotional denial leave your daughter exposed to danger.

When a child molester is exposed most people don't say 'I knew it was him (or her!)". Usually it's a shocker.


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## mablenc

The fact that she's playing like that is not as alarming as that she is saying "yuck and lets see if you have babies" as we'll as crying when you and her and telling you she doesn't want to tell you. To me these are red flags, and should not be taken lightly unless she's been exposed to childbirth lately, even so she's should be able to talk to you everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PAgirl

Trust me, I am alarmed! I feel sick actually. I still pray no one is doing anything to her. I have told my husband and he is not concerned! Which bothers me. Do I call her school counselor?


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## mablenc

lenzi said:


> Start suspecting it.
> 
> Sometimes it's the person you think of last.
> 
> Don't let your emotional denial leave your daughter exposed to danger.
> 
> When a child molester is exposed most people don't say 'I knew it was him (or her!)". Usually it's a shocker.


 I agree child molesters are usually people that are close in the family who you trust and abuse that trust. It's not the usual creepy guy, it can even be a female and a family member. I would start with people she spends time alone with, including dad, grandpa, uncles, teachers ect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc

PAgirl said:


> Trust me, I am alarmed! I feel sick actually. I still pray no one is doing anything to her. I have told my husband and he is not concerned! Which bothers me. Do I call her school counselor?


The school counselor could be a great place to start. I'm sorry but your husband should be concerned, most father are very overprotective about these kinds of situations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PAgirl

Well he immediately asked her and she said they were "hugging". So he shrugged his shoulders and said ok. Told me that I am overreacting about it.


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## mablenc

I would rather overreact than under react or not react at all, this is something not to shrugg off until you are 110% sure you know what's going on. If its really nothing at lease you will know the signs and learn to open the communication channels with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc

A word of caution to is not to make her or guide her to say things. Sometimes we don't notice but we make children tell us what they think we want to her. Don't suggest or insinuate things, which is why it's better to bring in a professional.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

I did that. I was sexually abused.

I'd look into it. Maybe a child therapist can help.


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## Fleur de Cactus

Most of the time kids who act like this have been exposed to situations like this, it does not necessarily mean that she was molested but she heard this somewhere. Or she was exposed to shows or movie with language and pictures. Or she witnessed something. It does not mean it was at your home but it could be through relatives or caregivers, friends she visits. My only concern is that she does not want to tell you anything. Show her love, strengthen the trust, do not interrogate her, just have fun with her and tell her how much you love her, and that she is not in trouble, and ask her where she heard this or if she ever saw people doing this.


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## Fleur de Cactus

Did you tell her to let you know if she is subject of inappropriate touching and not watch bad movies , and to report if she is exposed to bad shows on TV. (my daughter used to tell me this when she was little, "they are watching bad show!!")


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## lenzi

PAgirl said:


> I have told my husband and he is not concerned!


Well maybe because he's the one molesting her!


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## zookeeper

Don't waste time posting on the Internet about this. Get her to a child psychologist ASAP. Don't jump to any conclusions, but the potential that she is being abused is there. This is a time for action. Overreaction is much better than inaction. Do it today.


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## larry.gray

mablenc said:


> A word of caution to is not to make her or guide her to say things. Sometimes we don't notice but we make children tell us what they think we want to her. Don't suggest or insinuate things, which is why it's better to bring in a professional.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

If she's led on AT ALL, it will greatly reduce the chances of a conviction if she is being molested.


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## lenzi

Set up a hidden camera to monitor your daughter whenever she's with an adult caregiver other than yourself.

Trust no one.


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## PAgirl

I have an appointment today with my own therapist and I will tell her my concerns. Its the weekend, so I plan to call her school counselor Monday morning. Sorry to say, but my husband is kindof an irresponsible idiot and I am not surprised that he shrugged this off. I am taking steps on leaving him because there has been physical and verbal abuse... but that's another story. 

I don't know how to approach this so maybe I shouldn't ask her anymore like you all have said. When I asked her why Ken was naked when they were "hugging" I am wondering if she heard the fear in my voice and that is why she reacted by crying like that.


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## PAgirl

As far as movies or tv, no I don't think so at all. I monitor everything she watches when she is in my care at least. She is not allowed to watch anything that is not for kids. And I would sit and watch whole episodes of those kid shows (Nickelodeon channel) with her to make sure I approve of it. The only adult show she has ever watched (with me anyway) is Dancing with the Stars. I know some of those dances get risqué but I doubt its harming her mind. She goes overnight to my parent's sometimes but I don't think there is bad television on there either. Ive never seen her try to change the channel either to put on something adult-like.


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## Jamison

I'm bothered by the fact your husband doesn't seem concerned. That could be a red flag. Also tread lightly with your husband right now, no accusations unless you have proof, but keep your eyes and ears open.


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## lenzi

PAgirl said:


> my husband is kindof an irresponsible idiot and I am not surprised that he shrugged this off. I am taking steps on leaving him because there has been physical and verbal abuse... but that's another story.


Why am I not surprised to hear that your husband is an abuser?

Open your eyes and protect yourself and your child.


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## larry.gray

PAgirl said:


> Sorry to say, but my husband is kindof an irresponsible idiot and I am not surprised that he shrugged this off. I am taking steps on leaving him because there has been *physical and verbal abuse*... but that's another story.


Then why are you having a hard time suspecting your STBX husband? Perhaps the physical and verbal abuse isn't all that he's up to?


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## zookeeper

PAgirl said:


> I am taking steps on leaving him because there has been physical and verbal abuse... but that's another story.
> 
> I don't know how to approach this so maybe I shouldn't ask her anymore like you all have said. When I asked her why Ken was naked when they were "hugging" I am wondering if she heard the fear in my voice and that is why she reacted by crying like that.


So he is abusive to you but you are not worried that he could be abusing your daughter? Let me guess, he doesn't abuse you sexually so he couldn't possibly be abusing her in that way? I wouldn't accuse him of it, but you had better get in gear on this situation quickly. Don't leave her alone with him until a professional can give her an evaluation.

Sexual abusers usually control their victims with fear. Fear that it is their fault. Fear that if they reveal the abuse no one will believe them or love them anymore. Destroying a child like this is one of the most unforgivable, monstrous things a human can do in life. If she breaks out in tear when you probe her, it could possibly be that she is afraid you will find out. Again, don't jump to any conclusions yet, but do everything you must to protect her. Don't leave her alone with anyone until she has been evaluated by a CP. Even then, be hyper-vigilant. 

Childhood sexual abuse cause horrific dysfunction in a person and it reverberates for the rest of their lives. A key factor in how well someone can recover is how those close to her react and work to protect them. My wife did not have this. He family rugswept the whole thing and continued to associate with the abuser until his death (which was in no way horrible or painful enough) and it has crippled my wife emotionally. IMO, the failure of her parents to protect and help her (hell, even show that they believed her) may have been just as damaging as the actual abuse from her grandfather - may he burn in hell. I can only hope her parents join him there soon.


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## PAgirl

:-( I feel so sick and can hardly breathe. I will remain normal around my daughter. I am going to get professional advice and keep my ears and eyes open. I really don't think he could do such a thing. But I wont be close-minded to it either. I came on this board asking if this was a normal curiosity of a 7 year old so you have all helped me a lot.


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## larry.gray

The "good" pedophiles are the ones nobody suspects. They are particularly charming to get what they want. 

That's why multiple people have stated that you should suspect everyone, women included.


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## Jamison

lenzi said:


> Set up a hidden camera to monitor your daughter whenever she's with an adult caregiver other than yourself.


I second this.


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## Maricha75

PAgirl said:


> :-( I feel so sick and can hardly breathe. I will remain normal around my daughter. I am going to get professional advice and keep my ears and eyes open. I really don't think he could do such a thing. But I wont be close-minded to it either. I came on this board asking if this was a normal curiosity of a 7 year old so you have all helped me a lot.


Ordinarily, the playing with naked dolls WOULD be a normal thing. I remember doing the same with my own Barbies as a kid. I was never abused. HOWEVER, the things she said, coupled with the crying, raise a red flag, even to me. I really don't see how you can say you don't think someone who physically and verbally abuses couldn't sexually abuse someone as well. That really boggles my mind. But, yes, remain calm, as normal as possible, and get your ducks in a row.


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## Jamison

You stated your husband didn't seem concerned when you mentioned it to him. Not concerned as in, he seemed shocked like a deer caught in headlights at first but then blew it off as no big deal? Got angry first, and said it was no big deal? Seemed to have no emotion about it? What did you notice about his reaction other than not really concerned? How has he been acting since you mentioned it to him?


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## mablenc

PAgirl said:


> I have an appointment today with my own therapist and I will tell her my concerns. Its the weekend, so I plan to call her school counselor Monday morning. Sorry to say, but my husband is kindof an irresponsible idiot and I am not surprised that he shrugged this off. I am taking steps on leaving him because there has been physical and verbal abuse... but that's another story.
> 
> I don't know how to approach this so maybe I shouldn't ask her anymore like you all have said. When I asked her why Ken was naked when they were "hugging" I am wondering if she heard the fear in my voice and that is why she reacted by crying like that.


j

Your therapist is a great persons to guide you through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PAgirl

Jamison said:


> You stated your husband didn't seem concerned when you mentioned it to him. Not concerned as in, he seemed shocked like a deer caught in headlights at first but then blew it off as no big deal? Got angry first, and said it was no big deal? Seemed to have no emotion about it? What did you notice about his reaction other than not really concerned? How has he been acting since you mentioned it to him?


When I said something, he didn't hesitate, he immediately rushed over to the room where she was in and the barbies were (Barbie and Ken was still as they were), and said "what is Barbie and ken doing?" to her. She said "hugging". He said okay and left the room and went upstairs and turned on the tv. I said to him "what did she say"? He said "she said hugging. no big deal. your overreacting". I said "no I think this is really concerning" and he ignored me.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

School kids, especially on the bus due to the age difference really taint the minds of our precious children.

It's very sad. My girls tell me everything and I'm shocked to hear what goes on.

Last year my 11 year old child saw a classmate smoke pot right before he hopped on the bus. We live in a very rural area. My 10/11 year old also rides the bus with 18 year olds as well.


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## PAgirl

I have asked her about the kids on the bus. There is nothing suspicious there as far as I can tell.


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## CallaLily

Other than the Barbie and Ken issue how has your daughter been acting at home when she's 
not playing with her dolls? Any change in her behavior at home or school different than how she 
normally acts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PAgirl

Overly emotional at home. Cries at pretty much everything. A little defiant too. School only started just over a week ago and the teacher said she is very quiet, but that is normal for her in the beginning of the year being in a new classroom and all.


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## Thor

Don't get crazy just yet. There are a lot of possible explanations. What has she had in the way of sex ed in school? What about nature shows on tv? Older kids might have told her about sex.

My son at about that age drew pictures constantly. Usually dinosaurs, but also all kinds of animals and cavemen. One day he extrapolated his knowledge that animals mate to mean that humans mate. So he drew a stick picture of a caveman and cavewoman mating surrounded by wooly mammoths and sabre tooth tigers. It was quite funny and did not mean anything.

On the other hand, my wife was delivered by her parents to her abuser frequently when she was around the same age as your daughter. A trusted couple who babysat or just let kids come over and play in their yard all the time. Idk if it was the husband, wife, or both who abused children.

I think you should do as suggested with putting up a nanny cam if possible. There are lots of potential signs of abuse beyond playing with dolls or drawing pictures, so I would talk to a child psychologist who specializes in sex abuse to find out if there are other warning signs and if your daughter should be carefully questioned.


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## SolidSnake

I think you are over reacting. I used to play like that sometimes at that age and I was never molested. There are legitimate ways kids either find out about sex or are just curious about it. It's not a deffinite sign she has been abused. I think people are way over the top in this thread suggesting that your husband is molesting her without any evidence. By all means take her to a psychologist f you are really conerned but by my estimation you are blowing it out of proportion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CallaLily

Since her behavior has changed some, overly emotional and a little defiant needs to be looked into. Part of this could be the fact there has been physical abuse
going on between you and your husband. And yes some other things could be going on as well to contribute to her behavior changes. I do think though while you
are discussing things with your therapist that putting up a camera might be good for now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unique Username

Nanny cam

Watch her reactions when she is around others.

I would NOT contact the school psychologist or get them involved.
Better off taking her to private Child Psychologist or counselor.

If she were up late and happened to see something on Adult Swim - there are stupid shows that are very sexual in orientation and they use Barbie, kens and GI Joes as the characters

Many possibilities for the naked doll play

But the crying and other behaviors you mentioned are certainly concerning and worthy of having a Child Therapist speak with her. 
This is a great idea period - as she has runoff emotions and conflicts from hearing or seeing the aftermath of her father beating her mother.
I'd also look at your own situation a little more and think back to your sexual relationship to your abusive spouse....are you sure he hasn't used sex as a weapon to control or shame or hurt you?

Good luck to you both. Best thing is to get daughter help ASAP so she can learn coping skills with living with an abusive parent (at the very least) and coping skills of how to handle your impending divorce as well.

Good luck to you both.


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## PAgirl

Unique Username said:


> Nanny cam
> 
> If she were up late and happened to see something on Adult Swim - there are stupid shows that are very sexual in orientation and they use Barbie, kens and GI Joes as the characters
> 
> Many possibilities for the naked doll play
> 
> But the crying and other behaviors you mentioned are certainly concerning and worthy of having a Child Therapist speak with her.
> This is a great idea period - as she has runoff emotions and conflicts from hearing or seeing the aftermath of her father beating her mother.
> I'd also look at your own situation a little more and think back to your sexual relationship to your abusive spouse....are you sure he hasn't used sex as a weapon to control or shame or hurt you?.


Not really possible with the tv show. Not at home anyway. We are strict with bedtime at 8:30 and she sleeps until 7:30am. Maybe if she spent an overnight at her grandparents but I don't think so either. 

My STBXH doesn't "beat" me. Just to clarify, he hits me and pushes me down during a heated argument. Not that that's okay either - just clarifying. As far as your sex question, I don't think so. It hardly happens anymore anyway.

Im thinking the behavior change in her is most likely because of her witnessing daddy being mean to mommy, all the hostility, etc. Plus he loses his patience with her easily and raises his voice to the point where she will get hysterical and pee herself (again she is 7). He has not hit her. But I don't doubt that would happen eventually.

YEs I do plan on getting her counseling. Why not call the school counselor like someone said not to above?


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## Unique Username

Because then the school is involved and would be on her record.
This could create issues for her or you in the future.
It could create stigma and problems for her as teachers and administrator's would have access to these records and might make unfounded assumptions etc.


If they suspect any kind of abuse they will immediately call the police and Dept of Family & Children (DHS< DSS whatever it is called where you are)

When the state gets involved in your business, many many many bad things can happen. Things don't always turn out the way you would hope or want them to.

Example - They think there is abuse and you remain in the home, then you can be charged with child endangerment or neglect...and then the court could decide to put her in foster care while further investigation takes place. Get my point here.

Find out what's going on - BEFORE you blow everybody's world up unneccisarily

At this point you really have no idea what is really going on. Better to handle it privately until or IF you desire/or the courts dictate any kind of criminal action/prosecution would take place..

7 year olds don't normally get so scared they urinate on themselves. This in itself should be another pause/cause for alarm....she needs someone to talk to, to get to the bottom of this.



Point is - unless you want speculation, hearsay and unwanted drama...FIRST investigate to see what's up before you set things in motion that won't easily be taken back or calmed down.

You will do as you want, and good luck to you.



Also - The School Psychologist works for the school system NOT YOU. 
There would be no confidentiality assumption between this person and your child.


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## zookeeper

Not to mention the fact that the school counselor is not a specialist in this subject matter. Find someone who specializes in rape/incest/childhood sexual abuse. If someone had done this for my wife when she was a child, she might have had a much different and better life than she has. My in-laws took her to a regular, pill-prescribing psychiatrist who worried more about how to dampen her behavior by doping her up than figuring out what really happened and how to help her.


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## Thor

I agree to keep this away from the school. The school employee works for the school. The government. He/she does not work for you. They are pressured to quickly report anything which might maybe seem suspicious, and then you've got government agents swarming your home.

A psychologist you hire privately should not be spring loaded to report to authorities. A responsible psychologist should investigate first. I believe they are legally required to report abuse when they discover it. Note that your psychologist works for you, and first has a responsibility to your child not the state and not some political boss. So I think that there is much less likelihood of a premature report to authorities. If there is no abuse, nobody needs to have the **** storm which the heavy handed government will rain on you. Most especially your daughter does not need to be dragged through an unnecessary mess.

If there is abuse, then of course it needs to be reported and prosecuted.

From what you describe I think there is a good chance there is no sex abuse. I sure hope not. But it does sound like your daughter is being abused with at least witnessing your husband's abusive behavior towards you.


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## JustHer

PAgirl said:


> Overly emotional at home. Cries at pretty much everything. A little defiant too. School only started just over a week ago and the teacher said she is very quiet, but that is normal for her in the beginning of the year being in a new classroom and all.


PAgirl, I am soooooo sorry for what you are going through. What did your therapist say yesterday?

I know of a girl that was molested by a cousin when visiting and had the same behavior as you stated in the post I quoted after he left. I also know of children who had this behavior when starting school because of issues with the teacher or other children.

the "play" with her toys is concerning. Most kids won't experiment with play until they get older. But, if she has been watching the animal shows and is feeling the strain in the house...... maybe?

Has she had any sleep overs, at your home or theirs? Has she been around anyone different? Do you live in a neighborhood or have other children nearby that she plays with?


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## lenzi

PAgirl said:


> My STBXH doesn't "beat" me. Just to clarify, he hits me and pushes me down during a heated argument. Not that that's okay either
> 
> He has not hit her. But I don't doubt that would happen eventually.


Why do tolerate such abuse, especially since you have no doubts he'll do the same to your daughter?

If you don't care enough to protect yourself, at least protect your child.


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## MyHappyPlace

I have 2 close experience of why NOT to set up any services through the school, but through a private child psychologist. 

A good friend of mine has a 10 year old daughter that was being abused by her live in boyfriend. She had NO clue! There were not any noticeable changes in her daughter's behavior. She never said anything to anyone. Now, our public schools mandate a once per week counseling session for every class. So one day, out of the blue, in front of 20 other children, my friend's daughter blurts out that she was being molested. She, nor her brother, came home from school. They had immediately contacted child services and the kids were ushered into the system. Only when my friend called to find out why her children didn't get off the bus was she told that the state had taken custody and would be contacting her. As soon as her boyfriend found out, he fled the state and she still didn't know what was going on! Even though she didn't know it was happening in her home, it still took her 12 months to regain custody of her children and they seriously contemplated charging her! 

Now on the other hand, my niece and nephew were being abused by a step brother while at their father's house. My sister found out about my niece and like an idiot, didn't contact any authorities or counselors. The father set up a "system" with bells on doors, and a bunch of other BS "securities" and my retard sister let them keep going over there because it was in the divorce custody arrangement. Then she found out months/years later that it was STILL going on and found out that her son was also involved. This older step brother was not only molesting them, but making them molest each other. By the time this all blew up, he was about 13 and my niece and nephew were 9 and 6, but by then, it had been going on for years. This time my sister contacted specialists for her children and got the authorities involved. She never lost custody of her children (though even I think she should be charged for letting this continue after knowing!) 

So there we have it. Someone who didn't know and lost her children because the school got involved and someone who did know and got to keep her children because she went through a private sector.


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## EleGirl

She might have seen something.. porn, TV, movie. Or someone might be molesting her.

Find a child therapist who does play therapy. Let her take her dolls and/or stuffed toys. 

If it were my daughter, I'd put a hidden camera in her room. She what she's doing when the door is closed. She if anyone is going into her room at night. 

Plus.. I would not tell the husband. His lack of concern is, well concerning. Hopefully he just is not aware that most of the time when children that young play in this manner it is them working through something that they saw or that happened to them.


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## EleGirl

I agree. Do not get the school involved. They will call child protective services. They have to by law. Then they will have your daughter evaluated. IT will be very clear to your daughter right away what is going on.

If you take her to a therapist. The therapist will work with your daughter to find out what may or may not be going on. It's a much safer environment for your daughter. If you do not tell your daughter you suspicions and do not talk to her about it (this puts ideas in kids heads) , then if it turns out to be that she has a wild imagination she will not be traumatized.


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## PAgirl

Wow. I had no idea that it could get that ugly going through the school. Thanks for your stories and experiences. I will look for a private counselor for her today. I personally feel that sex abuse is less likely after watching her a little closer this weekend but none the less, she is DEFINITELY affected by the problems in the house with the tension between her parents. And also, the way my husband is so controlling is detrimental for her. He admits our daughter is "damaged" but he says its too late for her (?)! He has NEVER suggested getting her counseling! Something is screwed up in his head. I have to be the pro-active parent and help my daughter since noone else will. I will keep you all posted.


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## Anon Pink

Just wanted to throw out another possibility. She may have recently learned what sex is and how babies are made. Her words were "Yuck, lets see if you have any babies" 

Children usually say YUCK when first hearing about sexual intercourse. But if that's how babies are made than she wants Ken and Barbies to have a baby so they must do it too.

See if you can give her a little girl Barbie....they have them but what are they called...? Then she has a Mommy, Daddy and little girl. Thats where the really info will come from. What the mommy and daddy do is normal. What the little girl does will more closely represent HER life.

Don't ask her any more questions. Don't ask her to explain what her Barbies are doing. She already instinctively knows that there is an element of wrong in what they are doing otherwise she wouldn't be hiding it. You want to create a safe place for her to explore whatever thoughts are on her mind and children get anxious when they have to explain themselves.

Just hug her and hold her and tell her you will always love her even when she makes a mess and even when she refuses to eat her vegetables.


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## Maricha75

Anon Pink said:


> Just wanted to throw out another possibility. She may have recently learned what sex is and how babies are made. Her words were "Yuck, lets see if you have any babies"
> 
> Children usually say YUCK when first hearing about sexual intercourse. But if that's how babies are made than she wants Ken and Barbies to have a baby so they must do it too.
> 
> See if you can give her a little girl Barbie....they have them but what are they called...? Then she has a Mommy, Daddy and little girl. Thats where the really info will come from. What the mommy and daddy do is normal. What the little girl does will more closely represent HER life.
> 
> Don't ask her any more questions. Don't ask her to explain what her Barbies are doing. She already instinctively knows that there is an element of wrong in what they are doing otherwise she wouldn't be hiding it. You want to create a safe place for her to explore whatever thoughts are on her mind and children get anxious when they have to explain themselves.
> 
> Just hug her and hold her and tell her you will always love her even when she makes a mess and even when she refuses to eat her vegetables.


Good point, AP. Oh, and the little girl doll... she used to be "Skipper" when I was younger. Might be a different name now....


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## PAgirl

She HAS a little girl Barbie doll! She plays with her and I've watched and all that has been completely innocent. Good point! But yeah, I wont ask any more questions. My concern has lessened about this however I still think she needs counseling due to the yelling and other stuff between mom and dad that Ive mentioned.


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## bbdad

I would be going crazy if my girls showed signs like that. This dad would be using every resource possible to find out what is going on. I can't imagine any father doing less than everything for his girls in a situation like this. I would much rather over-react than under react in this situation.


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## EleGirl

PAgirl said:


> She HAS a little girl Barbie doll! She plays with her and I've watched and all that has been completely innocent. Good point! But yeah, I wont ask any more questions. My concern has lessened about this however I still think she needs counseling due to the yelling and other stuff between mom and dad that Ive mentioned.


When you take her to a counselor, tell you counselor about how she plays. Still put the hidden nanny cam in her room. 

why are you now less concerned?


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## Anon Pink

Maricha75 said:


> Good point, AP. Oh, and the little girl doll... she used to be "Skipper" when I was younger. Might be a different name now....


SKIPPER!Brain fart, senior moment...take your pick. Thanks.


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## Anon Pink

PAgirl said:


> She HAS a little girl Barbie doll! She plays with her and I've watched and all that has been completely innocent. Good point! But yeah, I wont ask any more questions. My concern has lessened about this however I still think she needs counseling due to the yelling and other stuff between mom and dad that Ive mentioned.


The best thing you can do for your daughter is FAMILY-therapy. Behaviors are discussed and evaluated for age appropriateness or indicators. Both parents learn skills that are best suited for that child and that child's needs. If the family is in crises, and it sounds like you are, the FAMILY needs to respond. Taking a child to therapy won't solve the issues. Having the family respond to the child's needs will solve the issues.


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## norajane

Have you and your husband been fighting about sex? She could be overhearing and putting her own interpretation on it...hence, the "yuck". Or yeah, at that age, sex does seem yucky and will be yucky until they hit puberty.

Otherwise, kids do the naked doll playing thing all the time, including simulated sex. They also play doctor and whatnot. It's learning and exploration time when you're 7! I don't necessarily see that as signs of sexual abuse. She cried when you asked her about it because you probably sounded like a freaked out mom and that scared her.

BUT, she is in a toxic environment at home. You and your husband fight a lot, in your own words. Even if you do it when you think she's asleep, you'd be surprised what she can overhear. Your husband is abusive to you physically and verbally. Yes, your daughter already knows this even if you think she doesn't. Your husband is verbally abusive to your daughter - she pees her pants. THESE are far, far bigger issues than naked doll playing. THESE are issues that she absolutely needs some help from an experienced professional to deal with, especially if you don't get her OUT of that environment.


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## Unique Username

7 year old needs some private counseling FIRST to let her have her OWN place to share whatever she needs to get out - and to see if there is any mis-behavior going on TO her or around her.

THEN get Family Counseling. At this point it makes no sense to dive in to Family Counseling when her Dad seems less than interested in finding anything out anyway and may very well be the instigator of other problems. (I am very displeased to hear you say he thinks of her as DAMAGED...like wtf?! she is a little girl....those kinds of assholio statements and mindset really really bother me. I'm sorry he is such a louse.)

I'm glad you are less concerned. PAGirl - Better to have a CLEAR head so you can handle things (all things/whatever things) RATIONALLY. 

If you can afford it, put a nanny cam in her room when no one else is home but you and don't let anyone know you have done it.
Then see what transpires...it may very well further lesson your concerns. Or you will have perhaps concrete evidence of something else.

I'm sending my vibes of peace and resolution your way.. And for your daughter to learn coping strategies and emerge out of this 
situation whatever it is that is bothering her...with your help she will succeed PAGirl)


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## AgentD

I'm not sure if she's been sexually abused or not, but one thing is clear, she's likely suffered some emotional/mental damage
from the fighting and physical abuse going on. She needs to be in therapy, and if this is a situation that can not be fixed, then hopefully
you and your daughter can move on and save yourselves from further damage. Also, if molestation was even thought about, especially
in the home, a nanny cam is a good idea. It's not something I would sit back and wait to do either!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75

Another thought... has she heard any of the arguments between you and your husband regarding the OM you have been talking to? Has she, possibly, heard any of the conversations you have had with OM? THAT could very well play a part in how she's playing/acting/talking as well.


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## ScarletBegonias

Maricha75 said:


> Another thought... has she heard any of the arguments between you and your husband regarding the OM you have been talking to? Has she, possibly, heard any of the conversations you have had with OM? THAT could very well play a part in how she's playing/acting/talking as well.


I was wondering about this as well.

You've mentioned in most of your posts here that you're pretty positive your H isn't abusing her but that she's just reacting to how he abuses you.If she hears these things,she may be listening closer than you think to your other conversations. kids pick up every thing at her age.

Also,you may want to delete your threads once you get deeper into the separation process.It would be really bad if your husband came upon them and saw all the things you've said.I'm not an abusive person but I can't say how I'd react if I saw a bunch of internet strangers accusing me of molesting my child.If he's a dangerous man then it's better for him to not know you've been seeking advice online from anyone.


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## Decorum

Hi PAgirl,

Having read this (after Coffee Amore mentioned it) my only question is.

Is it possible that your husband has watched porn when you are not home and that you daughter has seen it, even by accident?

I hate to even suggest it, but he may even know of the incident but does not want to admit to it. I think it would serve no purpose to confront him. But you might ask the professional about the possibility.

I hesitate to post here because I think this is best handled by professionals (I know you are going to get counseling for her as you mentioned, so that's good).

But it is a question I had as I read this thread.

So I'll just keep your kids in my thoughts, that you get to any real issues and they get the help they need.

Take care!


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## PAgirl

Maricha75 said:


> Another thought... has she heard any of the arguments between you and your husband regarding the OM you have been talking to? Has she, possibly, heard any of the conversations you have had with OM? THAT could very well play a part in how she's playing/acting/talking as well.


No not at all! Her emotional behavior issues started several months ago. Ive only been talking to the OM for 1 month. and husband found out last week. Her playing with the dolls, that is something that Ive seen 3 times now, first time was probably a couple months ago, then the last two weekends. Im certain its not related. She might be influenced by someone or something she saw or heard. Yesterday, a girl at school talked her into stealing something from another kid's backpack. I had a talk with her about that. I think she is easily influenced.

As far as porn (someone asks this above), my husband has magazines but keeps them hidden and out of reach. Dont think I approve of this by the way. I didnt even know about it myself until recently when I was cleaning out our closets. If he did watch it on tv, he would have to pay and order it, and I would certainly know about it because I get the cable bill. So no, I dont think so.


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## Maricha75

PAgirl said:


> No not at all! Her emotional behavior issues started several months ago. Ive only been talking to the OM for 1 month. and husband found out last week. Her playing with the dolls, that is something that Ive seen 3 times now, first time was probably a couple months ago, then the last two weekends. Im certain its not related. She might be influenced by someone or something she saw or heard. Yesterday, a girl at school talked her into stealing something from another kid's backpack. I had a talk with her about that. I think she is easily influenced.
> 
> As far as porn (someone asks this above), my husband has magazines but keeps them hidden and out of reach. Dont think I approve of this by the way. I didnt even know about it myself until recently when I was cleaning out our closets. *If he did watch it on tv, he would have to pay and order it, and I would certainly know about it because I get the cable bill. So no, I dont think so.*


Desktop computer? Laptop? Smartphone? Ipad/tablet? Any one of these can easily have access to FREE porn videos. So, you can't even guarantee that you would know based solely on the cable bill. Not saying he does/has done this... just saying there is free access at his fingertips, if he were so inclined.


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## PAgirl

True. But he is not computer-savy. He also just has a regular cell phone with internet. No Ipad, laptop or smartphone here just a desktop which is password protected. Anything is possible but its not all that likely


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## lenzi

PAgirl said:


> True. But he is not computer-savy. He also just has a regular cell phone with internet. No Ipad, laptop or smartphone here just a desktop which is password protected. Anything is possible but its not all that likely


He passwords protects his computer so you can't use it?

That's not good. What's he hiding? Then again you're having some sort of an affair with another man. 

Then again him saying your daughter is damaged and it's too late for her isn't very promising either, nor is the fact that you accept the fact that your husband is verbally and physcially abusive and presents a physical threat to both you and your daughter.

There's just so much wrong here.


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## FourtyPlus

My daughter did almost the exact same thing when she was around 8 or 9. I felt it was natural curiosity as she was aware of how babies were made and she knew that Ken and Barbie had removable clothing. We later found out that the idea of playing with dolls like that came actually from a friend she had at the time and that friend showed her what her Mommy does with a lot of different men that would have sleep overs at her house.


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## EleGirl

FourtyPlus said:


> My daughter did almost the exact same thing when she was around 8 or 9. I felt it was natural curiosity as she was aware of how babies were made and she knew that Ken and Barbie had removable clothing. We later found out that the idea of playing with dolls like that came actually from a friend she had at the time and that friend showed her what her Mommy does with a lot of different men that would have sleep overs at her house.


The daughter of a friend of mine started this kind of play at about 6. After some investigation, it turned out that a 12 year old female cousin who had been molested was teaching all the younger cousins sexual play.. to including having the little girls put things into their vaginas.


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## CallaLily

PAgirl said:


> Her playing with the dolls, that is something that Ive seen 3 times now, first time was probably a couple months ago, then the last two weekends.


Everyone needs therapy IMO. You have seen her behavior with the dolls before, 3 times, the first time a few months ago. IMO, if it were me, and I saw that behavior months ago, and here it is 3 times later, I would have already started to look into things. Such as putting up and nanny cam or digital voice recorder etc. Not saying your husband has done anything, but I would have at least already started to try to rule some stuff out that may or may not be going on. You've got to start somewhere. I'm not sure why you haven't already put something like that up to at least look into things, maybe you are afraid of what you could find? 

Your husband has displayed physical abuse behavior towards you, isn't concerned about your daughters behavior, and you are already seeing another man. I really hope someone can put aside whatever other feelings they might have right now and at least have some concern or interest in her, and getting her some help. Have you been to see your therapist yet, if so, what have they said?


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## Unique Username

PAgirl said:


> No not at all! Her emotional behavior issues started several months ago. Ive only been talking to the OM for 1 month. and husband found out last week. Her playing with the dolls, that is something that Ive seen 3 times now, first time was probably a couple months ago, then the last two weekends. Im certain its not related. She might be influenced by someone or something she saw or heard. Yesterday, a girl at school talked her into stealing something from another kid's backpack. I had a talk with her about that. I think she is easily influenced.
> 
> As far as porn (someone asks this above), my husband has magazines but keeps them hidden and out of reach. Dont think I approve of this by the way. I didnt even know about it myself until recently when I was cleaning out our closets. If he did watch it on tv, he would have to pay and order it, and I would certainly know about it because I get the cable bill. So no, I dont think so.


Excuse me??

OM?...you are having an affair?

Now how in the hell is that going to help your situation? 
How is that going to do ANYTHING but create all sorts of sh!t storms?


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## mishu143

When I was your daughters age I played like that with my dolls, I've always had a curiosity for that kind of stuff and was not molested, but I didn't cry when I got caught or shut down and say the stuff she is saying. I was watching movies that were not appropriate for my age so maybe that's where I got the idea to make Barbie and ken have sex not knowing how they really need to do it.

Anyways I agree with many on here.... You need to keep your eyes open and go to a professional if she won't open up to you. It is not normal she shuts down, it is not normal she cries about it. I have a lot of experience with molested family members and it is always the person you least suspect! ALWAYS! You have to try to talk to her and make her feel safe, let her know she will not get in trouble for telling you what she is thinking. Play therapy would help in her case they let her play with dolls alone and watch her in a mirror then talk and try to get her to open up. 

PLEASE PROTECT HER AND KNOW THAT MOLESTATION SEXUAL ABUSE ANY ABUSE CAN HAPPEN UNDER OUR NOSES. 

Not saying its your husband, but I have many close friends and family who were abused by a very close relative, even cousins, that no one suspected. 

Could be nothing, but why not check it out?


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## mishu143

SolidSnake said:


> I think you are over reacting. I used to play like that sometimes at that age and I was never molested. There are legitimate ways kids either find out about sex or are just curious about it. It's not a deffinite sign she has been abused. I think people are way over the top in this thread suggesting that your husband is molesting her without any evidence. By all means take her to a psychologist f you are really conerned but by my estimation you are blowing it out of proportion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do not listen to comments like this, do not blow this off! Te only thing I agree with in the above statement is to not blame your husband or anyone for that matter until you ave it out f your daughters mouth by a professional! I'm serious, the laws are too lax when it comes to sexual abuse and any mistake could ruin your daughters ability to put the potential abuser in the slammer!


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## Jamison

PAgirl said:


> Her playing with the dolls, that is something that Ive seen 3 times now, first time was probably a couple months ago, then the last two weekends.


This has been going on before, and it has yet to be looked further into? IMO, your priorities right now, should be looking into what may or may not be going on with your daughter, and getting away from a physically abusive man. This OM you are seeing, shouldn't even be in the picture right now, you have a family crisis on your hands that needs to be dealt with.


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## BFGuru

Where sexual curiosity is normal, and most little girls make their barbies do the deed at some point, the crying over it is not normal and that would have have my radar going off. See what the therapists have to say. Don't panic. Even if it is a worst case scenereo, they can still grow up to lead healthy lives.


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## CallaLily

To the OP, I hope you are able to come back and give us some kind of update on things.


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## Unique Username

She is around posting in other threads about other stuff...

Kid needs private counseling regardless.


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## CallaLily

Would still be nice to know if she has looked into things though for the safety of her daughter and herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PAgirl

Hello! Im sorry Ive been MIA. I am planning on taking my daughter to her first counseling session this Thursday. However, I really dont think there is sexual abuse going on. It seems more and more that she is acting out in a way that barbie and ken love each other... while she believes her own mommy and daddy do not love each other. Does that make sense? She also seems to seek out approval from us. When she is not being emotional, she is somewhat walking on eggshells sometimes. Hard to describe but its what I observe.


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## EleGirl

PAgirl said:


> Hello! Im sorry Ive been MIA. I am planning on taking my daughter to her first counseling session this Thursday. However, I really dont think there is sexual abuse going on. It seems more and more that she is acting out in a way that barbie and ken love each other... while she believes her own mommy and daddy do not love each other. Does that make sense? She also seems to seek out approval from us. When she is not being emotional, she is somewhat walking on eggshells sometimes. Hard to describe but its what I observe.


That could be it. No matter what the counselor is still a good idea. Just be sure to tell the counselor it all and let the counselor figure it out.


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## PAgirl

Jamison said:


> This has been going on before, and it has yet to be looked further into? IMO, your priorities right now, should be looking into what may or may not be going on with your daughter, and getting away from a physically abusive man. This OM you are seeing, shouldn't even be in the picture right now, you have a family crisis on your hands that needs to be dealt with.


Do not crucify me for not being sure what to think when I saw it a couple months ago. First off, it was very vague and it wasnt really clear what she was doing with her dolls. It was with stuffed animals, not barbies then. And they were embraced. I took notice and asked her and she got upset. I made sure to keep an eye on it, but I really didnt know what to think of it.

Also, I am in the process of filing for divorce and retaining an attorney. My friendship with the other man is strictly NON-physical and my counselor says as long as I stay focused on going forward with the divorce and getting my daughter help, talking with a male friend is fine.


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## Jamison

No one is crucifying you. People just trying to help who are concerned. Glad you are making a move towards something.


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## ne9907

PAgirl
How is your daughter?


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