# What do you folks think of people who have long term affairs.



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I don't mean they suck, we all know that. I mean when someone basically leads two lives over a span of a year of more, some for decades. What kind of person can do this? In a sense they can't give their whole self to either person their BS or their AP. Have any of you known someone like that? What do they think when they think of themselves? Is it that they deserve to have two people love them? How does one behave this way and contend with the ideas of truth and authenticity, when those things had not been in their life for such a long time. Do they know how unhealthy they are? What would they say if you brought this to their attention. There whole lives are phony probably in all their interactions with every human being in their lives, even their AP. 

This is one of the reasons why I think it is a terrible idea to stay in a marriage with someone like that. They have no familiarity with concept or actions of truth or authenticity. This makes them a very broken and dysfunctional human being. If you have spent a lifetime and never been truthful or authentic how can you change that on a dime. I don't think it is possible. I see these people as really severely emotionally disabled. 

It's strange to me that society's perception of these people is not the same as long term alcoholics or meth addicts. Those people that are pitiable and really seen as completely detached and lost from society. Shouldn't a long term cheater be seen as the same way. That is how I see them. This is why I always feel bad for the BS who takes them back. 

Thoughts?


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## Robbie1234 (Feb 8, 2017)

My ex wife cheated on me with her boss but I took her back. Ten years later she cheated with the same man. I would never advice anyone to reconcile with a cheater.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

I'm way too lazy to ever do something like that. All the lying and sneaking around for years? Always looking over your shoulder, always being careful not to get caught. What a huge pain in the butt. Life is too short for that.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

My ex-wife was one of those horrible sneaky people. Her last affair was about 10 years, only called a one-time thing at first, then years later admitted to six years, then eight, then finally, a decade when the man died.

Her earlier affairs? a series of short-term affairs that she has only acknowledged after our divorce.

She is disgusting. Her consistent reasoning is that she never thought it would hurt me. Based on what?

Simply because she wanted to do what she wanted to do. Felt entitled.

When told exactly that? She denies that. Ex absolutely hates to be called out for crappy behavior. She much prefers being thought of a as a highly-moral person, an example for her kids.

Like i said, disgusting.

As to why I stayed?

I didn't know she was this way,she was a clever and very good deceiver.

When i found out the truth? I left.

I wasted too many years with her.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

sokillme said:


> I think it is a terrible idea to stay in a marriage with someone like that.
> There whole lives are phony
> This makes them a very broken and dysfunctional human being.


Agree. As you say, it is a self-medicating behavior, very much indeed like alcoholism or drug addiction. And, like those diseases, the patient needs "insight" that external stressors are not the cause of his/her behavior. Most of these people, sadly, never actually come to any full realization that they can simply choose to be different, because the behavior, in its entirety, is completely unrelated to others and the actions of others, and entirely to the choices and responses of the addict.


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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

..


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Slartibartfast said:


> You're making judgments of people to whom you are not married and have no standing to judge. Judge no one until you actually know their story. Feel free, though, to judge yourself or your own spouse.


Are you not judging with this statement?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

michzz said:


> Her consistent reasoning is that she never thought it would hurt me. Based on what?


In my ex-husband's case, that reasoning was based on the fact that I was never supposed to find out because it wasn't any of my business. He honestly, down to his soul, truly believed that anything he did when I wasn't around wasn't any of my business and therefore couldn't impact me in any way. When I did find out and was impacted by it, he was overflowing with righteous indignation. I wasn't supposed to know. It wasn't any of my business. Full stop. If I was hurt by it, it was my own fault for finding out. For at least a couple years after our divorce, he was angry with me for discovering the truth and ruining our marriage. 

So, it's not even that he thought I didn't matter. It's worse than that. It's that it never even occurred to him that I might.

Narcissism is fun.....:slap:


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

sokillme said:


> I don't mean they suck, we all know that. I mean when someone basically leads two lives over a span of a year of more, some for decades. What kind of person can do this? In a sense they can't give their whole self to either person their BS or their AP. Have any of you known someone like that? What do they think when they think of themselves? Is it that they deserve to have two people love them? How does one behave this way and contend with the ideas of truth and authenticity, when those things had not been in their life for such a long time. Do they know how unhealthy they are? What would they say if you brought this to their attention. There whole lives are phony probably in all their interactions with every human being in their lives, even their AP.
> 
> This is one of the reasons why I think it is a terrible idea to stay in a marriage with someone like that. They have no familiarity with concept or actions of truth or authenticity. This makes them a very broken and dysfunctional human being. If you have spent a lifetime and never been truthful or authentic how can you change that on a dime. I don't think it is possible. I see these people as really severely emotionally disabled.
> 
> ...


I don't know how long it needs to be to be considered long term affair? Does it have to be a decade?


Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

..


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

Pepe1970 said:


> I don't know how long it needs to be to be considered long term affair? Does it have to be a decade?
> 
> 
> Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


In my case my wife cheated with 2 men in a period of 7 years or so. And she said did it because she was convinced I didn't loved her, therefore I wasn't going to her hurt. Here she told me this few months ago and I'm in ruins. Go figure, that's how much she knows me. They say better than my mother. 

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think they need consistent spankings.

People that out of joint need a master or mistress.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I have done what you say, as far as a having an affair for a little over a year is concerned. I know my answer will probably come across as over simplified, but I don't really think of myself as a bad person. With that said I do feel bad about the hurt I caused. As for why, its because I really don't place all that much importance on fidelity/monogamy. Its very compartmentalized for me. Also, after working with a good therapist, the thought is that I am a love "addict". The thrill of a new relationship is something that I continually crave. Unusual being that I am a man, I think this probably fits more female serial cheaters.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

My thought is never satisfied or always looking for something else. People that will never be happy with what they have. They are very unfulfilled for whatever reason so they are looking to fulfill SOMETHING.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Slartibartfast said:


> You're making judgments of people to whom you are not married and have no standing to judge. Judge no one until you actually know their story. Feel free, though, to judge yourself or your own spouse.


I have to laugh when I read stuff like this. Like the whole foundation of wisdom and discernment isn't based on judging everything and everyone.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

sokillme said:


> What do you folks think of people who have long term affairs?


Narcissistic sociopaths who, in essence, have some delusional perception whereby they are not hurting anyone IF they don't find out. 

Loyalty, commitment and morality are concepts they CAN'T grasp. They simply can't feel any remorse if a spouse remains in blissful ignorance.

They feel pain if discovered (the old axiom: they are sorry they got caught, not for doing it) but they will never feel remorse for caking eating.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

I would think anyone capable of having a years long affair and basically lying for the majority of their day every singe day, faking love, fidelity, and commitment to each person would have to have a severe personality disorder like narcissism, or they may even be sociopaths, or psychopaths. I don't believe a normal person could carry on something like this for longer than a few weeks:months without completely cracking up and getting caught.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Thanks for your replies guys, I was hoping to get into not so much the personal experience but what it takes to live like that and what it says about them. After all their whole life is fake. When they are with their kids, their spouse, their friends, at work with colleagues, whatever, if they are hiding their affair then they are putting on an act and not being authentic with any of these people. 

When they tell their affair partner they love them and would do anything for them, that they don't love their spouse and then the same night they tell their spouse that they love them, they are lying to both of them. When someone calls them a great parent and they smile and agree they are lying to themselves. The fundamental building block of their lives are built on dishonesty. Their whole lives are really built on a framework of deceit. I don't think it's possible for them to have one person in their lives who they are completely authentic with. To me there is something really seriously wrong with them. They are emotional handicapped, something is missing in them. 

Then there is the fact that they are able to watch their AP go back and have sex and go on trips, even raise kids with their spouses. Why doesn't THIS drive them crazy? Say a man cheats on his wife with a women who is married. The married women goes on vacation with her husband, doesn't this bother this guy? If he really loved his affair partner wouldn't it kill him to watch her go on a trip with another man? I bet he wouldn't be happy if his wife did yet he cheats on her. These people are so broken it really makes my head hurt. So you have to ask is his love for either of these women authentic? Is it even possible for him to truly love anyone, at least in the way that people expect to be loved.

I have been watching this show on Netflix called Mindhunters, it's about people at the FBI who started the program to study and profile serial killers (great show by the way), now I am by no means comparing this type of person to a killer, but just like those killers has something defective in them, I believe the same is true with people who can do this. I wonder if there is some sort of diagnosis on it. It's much more then just they got caught up in circumstances or they didn't know what they were doing. Or that they were drunk. I mean supposedly they love their AP, most people when they love someone the natural instinct is to want to be with them, open up to them, share themselves with them. They don't do or feel this even with their affair partners, they give half of themselves to their AP and half to there BS and are really never truly their full selves with anyone. 

It's like being a phony is just a part of their nature. It's really confounding.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Narcissistic sociopaths who, in essence, have some delusional perception whereby they are not hurting anyone IF they don't find out.
> 
> Loyalty, commitment and morality are concepts they CAN'T grasp. They simply can't feel any remorse if a spouse remains in blissful ignorance.
> 
> They feel pain if discovered (the old axiom: they are sorry they got caught, not for doing it) but they will never feel remorse for caking eating.


I agree this is probably very close to the truth, which begs the question why anyone would advise continuing a relationship with someone like this.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

They suck.

Full stop.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

sokillme said:


> It's like being a phony is just a part of their nature. It's really confounding.


In my experience, this holds truth for me.

I have personal experience with one such case. The woman was raised in a home with a father that was a controlling southern Baptist minister, and she developed a fake persona to be the "good girl" to avoid his wrath. She then met and M'd (at 15) a very good man that was 20 at the time and they had a son when she was 18. I don't think she felt a lot of romantic love for her H, but he was a good man and provider and he was her escape ticket, so she put on her "good wife" mask and the years rolled by, then when she was in her 30's she engaged in a LTA of several years ... was "in LOVE" with OM ... but wouldn't leave the M due to her child, and not being wanted to be seen as the "BAD wife/mother", so she kept up the phony act and plugged along with the M. Somewhere in her 50's - 60's she finally grew up or matured enough to where she realized the gem of a H she had all along and now seems to be truly happy with her life and family.

I know that woman as Mom and she's changed, evolved, matured over the years, as have I. I didn't find out these truths until years after the A ended, and AFAIK, my Dad never found out and at this point, I'm not going to tell my 80 year old father, who is truly the BEST MAN I've ever known, and who still has her on a pedestal. Some of the hardliners will disagree, but I'll bear this burden and take it to my grave, before I share info that will cause the kind of pain I've experienced and ruin what might remain of a 60 year M.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

michzz said:


> When told exactly that? She denies that. Ex absolutely hates to be called out for crappy behavior. She much prefers being thought of a as a highly-moral person, an example for her kids.


A long-time client of mine said that his WW was not extremely intelligent. She went for years thinking the term which he used to refer to her was a compliment. At some event, she related that her husband referred to her as a high class courtesan. It was finally explained to her what the term "courtesan" meant. She was NOT impressed. :grin2:


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

michzz said:


> My ex-wife was one of those horrible sneaky people. Her last affair was about 10 years, only called a one-time thing at first, then years later admitted to six years, then eight, then finally, a decade when the man died.
> 
> Her earlier affairs? a series of short-term affairs that she has only acknowledged after our divorce.
> 
> ...





Rowan said:


> In my ex-husband's case, that reasoning was based on the fact that I was never supposed to find out because it wasn't any of my business. He honestly, down to his soul, truly believed that anything he did when I wasn't around wasn't any of my business and therefore couldn't impact me in any way. When I did find out and was impacted by it, he was overflowing with righteous indignation. I wasn't supposed to know. It wasn't any of my business. Full stop. If I was hurt by it, it was my own fault for finding out. For at least a couple years after our divorce, he was angry with me for discovering the truth and ruining our marriage.
> 
> So, it's not even that he thought I didn't matter. It's worse than that. It's that it never even occurred to him that I might.
> 
> Narcissism is fun.....:slap:


My ex's faulty thinking was as your husband's. All that "how dare you accuse me!" as I made her put her hand on her dad's Bible and swear she wasn't cheating, was pretty powerful. The devolved into "you just want to shame me." Still without saying the truth.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

ReformedHubby said:


> I have done what you say, as far as a having an affair for a little over a year is concerned. I know my answer will probably come across as over simplified, but I don't really think of myself as a bad person. With that said I do feel bad about the hurt I caused. As for why, its because I really don't place all that much importance on fidelity/monogamy. Its very compartmentalized for me. Also, after working with a good therapist, the thought is that I am a love "addict". The thrill of a new relationship is something that I continually crave. Unusual being that I am a man, I think this probably fits more female serial cheaters.


Hopefully you are not married and will never marry again.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I would think anyone capable of having a years long affair and basically lying for the majority of their day every singe day, faking love, fidelity, and commitment to each person would have to have a severe personality disorder like narcissism, or they may even be sociopaths, or psychopaths. I don't believe a normal person could carry on something like this for longer than a few weeks:months without completely cracking up and getting caught.


Agree with you 100%. We are on the same page, but let's not name it as some sort of personality disorder (e.g., narcissism) because doing so in this day and age explains away the behavior as if its a symptom of an illness instead of what it really is: vile, selfish, deceptive, and destructive behavior. Sometimes it's as simple as the difference between good and evil, right and wrong.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Taxman said:


> A long-time client of mine said that his WW was not extremely intelligent. She went for years thinking the term which he used to refer to her was a compliment. At some event, she related that her husband referred to her as a high class courtesan. It was finally explained to her what the term "courtesan" meant. She was NOT impressed. :grin2:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MyRevelation said:


> In my experience, this holds truth for me.
> 
> I have personal experience with one such case. The woman was raised in a home with a father that was a controlling southern Baptist minister, and she developed a fake persona to be the "good girl" to avoid his wrath. She then met and M'd (at 15) a very good man that was 20 at the time and they had a son when she was 18. I don't think she felt a lot of romantic love for her H, but he was a good man and provider and he was her escape ticket, so she put on her "good wife" mask and the years rolled by, then when she was in her 30's she engaged in a LTA of several years ... was "in LOVE" with OM ... but wouldn't leave the M due to her child, and not being wanted to be seen as the "BAD wife/mother", so she kept up the phony act and plugged along with the M. Somewhere in her 50's - 60's she finally grew up or matured enough to where she realized the gem of a H she had all along and now seems to be truly happy with her life and family.
> 
> I know that woman as Mom and she's changed, evolved, matured over the years, as have I. I didn't find out these truths until years after the A ended, and AFAIK, my Dad never found out and at this point, I'm not going to tell my 80 year old father, who is truly the BEST MAN I've ever known, and who still has her on a pedestal. Some of the hardliners will disagree, but I'll bear this burden and take it to my grave, before I share info that will cause the kind of pain I've experienced and ruin what might remain of a 60 year M.


Do you believe in an afterlife? Did or does your mom?


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Thanks for your replies guys, I was hoping to get into not so much the personal experience but what it takes to live like that and what it says about them. After all their whole life is fake. When they are with their kids, their spouse, their friends, at work with colleagues, whatever, if they are hiding their affair then they are putting on an act and not being authentic with any of these people.
> 
> When they tell their affair partner they love them and would do anything for them, that they don't love their spouse and then the same night they tell their spouse that they love them, they are lying to both of them. When someone calls them a great parent and they smile and agree they are lying to themselves. The fundamental building block of their lives are built on dishonesty. Their whole lives are really built on a framework of deceit. I don't think it's possible for them to have one person in their lives who they are completely authentic with. To me there is something really seriously wrong with them. They are emotional handicapped, something is missing in them.
> 
> ...


You are overthinking this. I once saw an action film where the villain said to the cop who he had tied up and was about to kill, "You're getting sloppy. You used be a formidable foe."

To which the cop replied: "Cut the BS, Chang. This isn't a chess match. I'm a cop, and you're a piece of shi+." 

Enough said.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Rick Blaine said:


> You are overthinking this. I once saw an action film where the villain said to the cop who he had tied up and was about to kill, "You're getting sloppy. You used be a formidable foe."
> 
> To which the cop replied: "Cut the BS, Chang. This isn't a chess match. I'm a cop, and you're a piece of shi+."
> 
> Enough said.


ha your probably right. 

I still have problems with the injustice of it all.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Do you believe in an afterlife? Did or does your mom?


Mom did and does or at least she claims to, who knows, could be another mask she hides behind ... I'm a non-believer.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

Rick Blaine said:


> Agree with you 100%. We are on the same page, but let's not name it as some sort of personality disorder (e.g., narcissism) because doing so in this day and age explains away the behavior as if its a symptom of an illness instead of what it really is: vile, selfish, deceptive, and destructive behavior. Sometimes it's as simple as the difference between good and evil, right and wrong.


The labels applied to personality disorders are just so people can conceptualize and understand the behavior. Basically PDs' like narcissism, bpd, histrionic, anti-social (psychopaths and sociopaths) etc... are just framing crappy behavior by humans. They're not a disease of the mind really (maybe psychopathy is), but more just who the person is. We label them because the behavior is so abhorrent and destructive normal people can't comprehend how they behave this way.

But yeah, they're just bad people basically. They can change, takes a lot of work and effort on their part and usually fails because the narcissist and sociopath doesn't see anything wrong with their behavior. They like who they are just fine and can't feel any empathy when they destroy people. Every one is a means to an end.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I have no idea how anyone can lie and deceive and cheat at all, let alone long term. I have seen people in my wider family act this way, marriages ruined, lives broken and children devastated. 
I have nothing but complete disrespect for them and a very very low opinion of them. I could never trust them or want to be close to them. Its a despicable thing to do.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> ha your probably right.
> 
> I still have problems with the injustice of it all.




Even after three years in reconciliation, I am of the mindset that infidelity has no real Justice.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MyRevelation said:


> Mom did and does or at least she claims to, who knows, could be another mask she hides behind ... I'm a non-believer.


See now she is lucky she doesn't have me for a son. Because when he died I would hire a very hot 65 year old actress and have her come in all tight black, veil and all. She would cry quietly and slip a note on the casket, then leave and not say a word. The note would read- "I will never forget what we had, I love you forever my darling". >

But I am not nice.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Even after three years in reconciliation, I am of the mindset that infidelity has no real Justice.


Wait until you get to the place where you think most of life has no real justice. The closest you get is revenge.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I know someone like that. Sad to say he is my blood relative. He got married, had 2 kids (now grown up), started messing around with a married woman when the kids were young. Many knew about it ( when I was a kid). Wife only found out when kids were teenagers, she divorced him and then he moved out and shacked up with the other woman. 
Still lives with the other woman (more than 30 years now) but I found out 2-3 years ago that he is now having a long time affair with a third woman. I have no compulsion to tell his current common law woman (of over 30 years as she helped nuke his first marriage, so what goes around comes around. The current affair partner knows he has a long time partner. They are all welcome to each other and it boils my blood when I see them. 
To meet him he is a nice man but he is a bit full of himself. He is now in his mid 60's and still thinks he is a hit with the ladies. I guess he is a narcissist but he gives everything to his now grown up kids and seems to have a good relationship with them, though there is no love lost with the long time partner, even to this day. They are very close to their mom. I also heard recently that he is spending more time with his ex wife and the kids. They all went on a holiday together (partner does not know). So go figure.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

What do you folks think of people who have long term affairs.

Well, I read an affair forum for about 5 years. At first i thought the affair people were low-lifes. Then i saw some patterns.

Affairs because they could.

Affairs because some people were addicted to new relationships and the "honeymoon" feeling.

Affairs because one spouse never or rarely would have sex so the affair person went outside the M. Some with consent but most without consent. In some cases the affair partner's spouse knew about the affair but the couple had a "don't ask-don't tell" rough agreement.

Affairs because the other spouse decided they were only attracted to the same sex person but didn't want to divorce. the woman in this case is the affair person because her H decided he didn't like sex with her or any women. He has a boyfriend." No divorse because they both want to raise the kids.

Affairs because the spouse was their best friend but in the bedroom the spouse was not interested or a dud.

Just like on TAM there are the sexless marriages and the Madona-Whxxx people or men or women that won't have sex while pregnant or what ever.

Someone mentioned about vacations the married couples have, wouldn't the affair partner be upset if one of the affair partners went on vacation with his or her spouse. From what I have read sex rarely happens between the married partners when they do go on vacation. I am talking no sex between married couples for 15 years in some cases. 

One guy got married in his late 30s, his W had a baby and 25 years later he can count on his hands how many times duty sex happened. And nothing for the past 8 years. He wanted to be there for his child and when the child moved out, he eventually found a woman in the same situation as he was in. He and the new woman dated for a while when this guys W was on vacation for several months. This man's W often went places for many weeks at a time. The W found out and filed for D. The guy wants to sing the D papers ASAP.

I generally do not condone affairs but in some cases people wait too long to divorce. I see a lot of people putting up with poor relationships because they think it is selfish to divorce a spouse that is barely in the M.


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## Jethro (Aug 16, 2013)

Interesting topic, OP. I have thought a lot about this in the aftermath of my wife’s multi-year emotional affair with an old boyfriend. 

In my wife’s case, she compartmentalized the “fantasy” of their relationship and it created a perverse cycle of justification. I also think she used the fact that OM was an old boyfriend--he wanted to marry her and felt she was the great love of his life--to keep him in her orbit. (She has said numerous times she could never have married him--and I believe her, so she preyed on the imbalance in their relationship.) 

She was drawn to him in part because she said he “got” parts of her that I didn’t. Yet, one of the reasons he got those parts is because she held them back from me. As long as he got those parts they were never even offered to me. Similarly, her view of my shortcomings was a rationalization for her to maintain an emotional relationship with him, just as her relationship with him magnified my shortcomings and exacerbated the disconnect with me. Her motivations were entirely selfish. He even called her out on her selfishness regarding how she compartmentalized him and the dynamic of their relationship over 30 years. 

She also told him that if they only lived closer it would have become a full-on affair and she wasn’t sure in such a case that she would feel guilt commensurate with the hurt she would cause me. That, to me, shows self-awareness, conscious decision-making, and extreme selfishness.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> The labels applied to personality disorders are just so people can conceptualize and understand the behavior. Basically PDs' like narcissism, bpd, histrionic, anti-social (psychopaths and sociopaths) etc... are just framing crappy behavior by humans. They're not a disease of the mind really (maybe psychopathy is), but more just who the person is. We label them because the behavior is so abhorrent and destructive normal people can't comprehend how they behave this way.
> 
> But yeah, they're just bad people basically. They can change, takes a lot of work and effort on their part and usually fails .


You might want to do some research on the research done with prison populations and their "labels".

The Parole Board finds this info useful.


A disturbing amount of these "crappy behavior " inmates are ASPD diagnosed by professionals that do more than just"frame" "crappy behavior"

The ASPD that are NOT in prison?

Your mileage may vary!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> The labels applied to personality disorders are just so people can conceptualize and understand the behavior. Basically PDs' like narcissism, bpd, histrionic, anti-social (psychopaths and sociopaths) etc... are just framing crappy behavior by humans. They're not a disease of the mind really (maybe psychopathy is), but more just who the person is. We label them because the behavior is so abhorrent and destructive normal people can't comprehend how they behave this way.
> 
> ...





sandcastle said:


> You might want to do some research on the research done with prison populations and their "labels".
> 
> The Parole Board finds this info useful.
> 
> ...


Actually, I disagree with the first statement when it comes to clinical diagnosis. If you are talking about we, the unwashed masses, then yes, calling someone a sociopath is our way of calling out crap.

However, personality disorders are real medical conditions and some result in lousy behavior in consistent patterns.

It doesn't excuse it, btw, but it does explain it. Some behavior is the result of imbalanced brain chemistry. Others because of traumatic events early in life. 

And yes, a lot of poor behavior is just plain evil.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I try not to judge people.

But the hurt a long term affair causes can be truly dreadful.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Handy said:


> What do you folks think of people who have long term affairs.
> 
> Well, I read an affair forum for about 5 years. At first i thought the affair people were low-lifes. Then i saw some patterns.
> 
> ...


This doesn't really address the ability to have a separate life full of lies though. I just think it's a separate breed of human. God help you if you are married to one.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Nothing hurts like finding out that most of your marriage has been a fake forced on you by the one you loved and trusted most.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I am currently reading a thread on another site. I will not mention which as they are not TAM, and could take a few pointers from the good people here, but they are mentioned here fairly commonly. 

The BH and WW are in their 50's married a long time. He just discovered that from 1999 to 2008 she was in a physical affair including all of the frills. Sex that the WW would never do with her husband, romantic getaways enabled by GF's, sex in the marital house and bed, sex in the church basement (sacreligious much?). Here is the best part. The AP, his wife and child all died in a vehicle crash in 2008. There was no confront, the BH was completely out o the loop. The WW went to therapy and managed to cover her grief and recovery. This was a parallel marriage that she managed to cover up from 1999 to 2017. She never confessed until last Friday (Nov 17/17). She kept momentoes on a disused computer. He accidentally discovered it and is totally devastated. He is thoughtful and methodical, and he is doing the 180 all on his own. He has told their children due to thanksgiving, and they are devastated as well. He is dealing with a good part of his marriage being a lie. She has been the model spouse ever since, HOWEVER all of that is built on a foundation of pure fecal matter. I may be an angry arsehole, and I may be off base here, but this level of deception going on really since 1999, is absolutely unforgiveable. He needs to end this ASAP, and have her pay for her this heinous transgression. He has, at this point asked her to leave. I believe he will seek a divorce. If I were advising him, and I have some idea that his state has adultery laws, I would advise him to invoke all laws that are in his favor, she was a SAHM, never worked and used all of her free time to fxck her AP. I do not know how anyone could get over this level of deception. I believe that the life HE BUILT for her is now revoked. She will be asked to find a job, and if he invokes the adultery clauses in the divorce laws, then she walks with very very little. And to be truthful, in this case, it will look damn good on her.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TDSC60 said:


> Nothing hurts like finding out that most of your marriage has been a fake forced on you by the one you loved and trusted most.


Yes, and I know more than one case where it ended up with the betrayed spouse having a breakdown. There is no excuse, ever.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Taxman said:


> I am currently reading a thread on another site. I will not mention which as they are not TAM, and could take a few pointers from the good people here, but they are mentioned here fairly commonly.
> 
> The BH and WW are in their 50's married a long time. He just discovered that from 1999 to 2008 she was in a physical affair including all of the frills. Sex that the WW would never do with her husband, romantic getaways enabled by GF's, sex in the marital house and bed, sex in the church basement (sacreligious much?). Here is the best part. The AP, his wife and child all died in a vehicle crash in 2008. There was no confront, the BH was completely out o the loop. The WW went to therapy and managed to cover her grief and recovery. This was a parallel marriage that she managed to cover up from 1999 to 2017. She never confessed until last Friday (Nov 17/17). She kept momentoes on a disused computer. He accidentally discovered it and is totally devastated. He is thoughtful and methodical, and he is doing the 180 all on his own. He has told their children due to thanksgiving, and they are devastated as well. He is dealing with a good part of his marriage being a lie. She has been the model spouse ever since, HOWEVER all of that is built on a foundation of pure fecal matter. I may be an angry arsehole, and I may be off base here, but this level of deception going on really since 1999, is absolutely unforgiveable. He needs to end this ASAP, and have her pay for her this heinous transgression. He has, at this point asked her to leave. I believe he will seek a divorce. If I were advising him, and I have some idea that his state has adultery laws, I would advise him to invoke all laws that are in his favor, she was a SAHM, never worked and used all of her free time to fxck her AP. I do not know how anyone could get over this level of deception. I believe that the life HE BUILT for her is now revoked. She will be asked to find a job, and if he invokes the adultery clauses in the divorce laws, then she walks with very very little. And to be truthful, in this case, it will look damn good on her.


You’re not off base.

You’re dead on target.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Taxman said:


> I am currently reading a thread on another site. I will not mention which as they are not TAM, and could take a few pointers from the good people here, but they are mentioned here fairly commonly.
> 
> The BH and WW are in their 50's married a long time. He just discovered that from 1999 to 2008 she was in a physical affair including all of the frills. Sex that the WW would never do with her husband, romantic getaways enabled by GF's, sex in the marital house and bed, sex in the church basement (sacreligious much?). Here is the best part. The AP, his wife and child all died in a vehicle crash in 2008. There was no confront, the BH was completely out o the loop. The WW went to therapy and managed to cover her grief and recovery. This was a parallel marriage that she managed to cover up from 1999 to 2017. She never confessed until last Friday (Nov 17/17). She kept momentoes on a disused computer. He accidentally discovered it and is totally devastated. He is thoughtful and methodical, and he is doing the 180 all on his own. He has told their children due to thanksgiving, and they are devastated as well. He is dealing with a good part of his marriage being a lie. She has been the model spouse ever since, HOWEVER all of that is built on a foundation of pure fecal matter. I may be an angry arsehole, and I may be off base here, but this level of deception going on really since 1999, is absolutely unforgiveable. He needs to end this ASAP, and have her pay for her this heinous transgression. He has, at this point asked her to leave. I believe he will seek a divorce. If I were advising him, and I have some idea that his state has adultery laws, I would advise him to invoke all laws that are in his favor, she was a SAHM, never worked and used all of her free time to fxck her AP. I do not know how anyone could get over this level of deception. I believe that the life HE BUILT for her is now revoked. She will be asked to find a job, and if he invokes the adultery clauses in the divorce laws, then she walks with very very little. And to be truthful, in this case, it will look damn good on her.


:laugh: I guess you didn't see my post in here. This was story that actually caused me to write this thread. The women in that story must be a sociopath if it's real. I wonder if it is. But if it is I wish I could write everything I have said here and say it to him. He is making a very bad mistake if he takes her back, money or not. No about of money is worth spending your life with such a monster. 

And she sits in the church she was ****ing the guy in and acts the good wife. Disgusting. And like I said in the other thread, not 3 post from discovery and some pathetic codependent white knight chimes in that she seems remorseful and is a good candidate for R. Disgusting. Talk about the blind leading the blind. Good old SI won't let anyone who is truthful post on there though. :surprise:


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

I read the same story. The betrayed H does admit to working too much and ignoring his W prior the the affair partner dying back in 2008.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Handy said:


> I read the same story. The betrayed H does admit to working too much and ignoring his W prior the the affair partner dying back in 2008.


She would have been nicer if she had just killed him. (I am only kind of kidding).


@Taxman left out the part about the emails making fun of how stupid he is and the size of his parts. It's almost too painful to be believed. Who knows.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Oh god, maybe I summarized way too much, the thread is unfolding and will likely take on the SI status of legends: Done Gone, SpaceGhost and Walloped come to mind, Waitedwaytoolong deserves an honorable mention as well. I cannot honestly think there is anything retrievable in this woman. She fed him a **** sandwich daily for nine fxcking years. Good god! And to boot, their kids are coming home to commiserate with their dad. I feel for the poor SOB. One hopes that she has the decency to go away, and not put up a fight. What she did is pretty nearly unforgivable.


Hows for bets she shows up in a wayward section somewhere?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Taxman said:


> Oh god, maybe I summarized way too much, the thread is unfolding and will likely take on the SI status of legends: Done Gone, SpaceGhost and Walloped come to mind, Waitedwaytoolong deserves an honorable mention as well. I cannot honestly think there is anything retrievable in this woman. She fed him a **** sandwich daily for nine fxcking years. Good god! And to boot, their kids are coming home to commiserate with their dad. I feel for the poor SOB. One hopes that she has the decency to go away, and not put up a fight. What she did is pretty nearly unforgivable.
> 
> 
> Hows for bets she shows up in a wayward section somewhere?


Gonna follow up on here as to not threadjack.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Handy said:


> I read the same story. The betrayed H does admit to working too much and ignoring his W prior the the affair partner dying back in 2008.


And...


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I think these long-term cheaters are just selfish and entitled, pure and simple. They want what they want, and they will say what they need to say to obtain it. Other people are nothing more than objects to be used to satisfy their own desires. Sure, they may appear generous or thoughtful, be good parents, but it's not done out of altruism, it's done for their ego. They want people to think they are great, so they do have to behave that way in public.

Honour and integrity mean nothing to them except as a false image to maintain. Only their own gratification actually matters.

People who stay in a relationship with such a person probably have low self-esteem, I would think. Or the cheater is still successfully manipulating the betrayed spouse's deep desire for the cheater to have an epiphany and suddenly become the carefully crafted image in truth.

As noted already though, personality disorders are stubbornly resistant to change. Some people are just users, and that's all they will ever be.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Taxman said:


> I am currently reading a thread on another site. I will not mention which as they are not TAM, and could take a few pointers from the good people here, but they are mentioned here fairly commonly.
> 
> The BH and WW are in their 50's married a long time. He just discovered that from 1999 to 2008 she was in a physical affair including all of the frills. Sex that the WW would never do with her husband, romantic getaways enabled by GF's, sex in the marital house and bed, sex in the church basement (sacreligious much?). Here is the best part. The AP, his wife and child all died in a vehicle crash in 2008. There was no confront, the BH was completely out o the loop. The WW went to therapy and managed to cover her grief and recovery. This was a parallel marriage that she managed to cover up from 1999 to 2017. She never confessed until last Friday (Nov 17/17). She kept momentoes on a disused computer. He accidentally discovered it and is totally devastated. He is thoughtful and methodical, and he is doing the 180 all on his own. He has told their children due to thanksgiving, and they are devastated as well. He is dealing with a good part of his marriage being a lie. She has been the model spouse ever since, HOWEVER all of that is built on a foundation of pure fecal matter. I may be an angry arsehole, and I may be off base here, but this level of deception going on really since 1999, is absolutely unforgiveable. He needs to end this ASAP, and have her pay for her this heinous transgression. He has, at this point asked her to leave. I believe he will seek a divorce. If I were advising him, and I have some idea that his state has adultery laws, I would advise him to invoke all laws that are in his favor, she was a SAHM, never worked and used all of her free time to fxck her AP. I do not know how anyone could get over this level of deception. I believe that the life HE BUILT for her is now revoked. She will be asked to find a job, and if he invokes the adultery clauses in the divorce laws, then she walks with very very little. And to be truthful, in this case, it will look damn good on her.


I feel so sorry for that poor man, what a devastating shock and trauma to find that all out. What she did was disgusting and had he not died then it would no doubt still be going on. I know that I could never stay with anyone who had treated me so terribly, and the trust could never be rebut after 18 years of lies and deception. You couldn't believe a word she said. :frown2:


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Handy said:


> I read the same story. The betrayed H does admit to working too much and ignoring his W prior the the affair partner dying back in 2008.


Doesn’t matter.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Handy said:


> I read the same story. The betrayed H does admit to working too much and ignoring his W prior the the affair partner dying back in 2008.


By that logic I can claim that my wife isn't giving me the attention I need and come and go and bring anyone to my marital house, if I so desire, whenever I want. She's actually bending over backwards to please me, but I, being the lunatic that I am, am never satisfied and do the claim. She can't defend herself even if she gave me the Solar System with all planets, their satellites and asteroid belts. Because for me, the Solar System is not enough. 

What, she's not giving me enough attention, right? She should have given me the Milky Way.

When will people learn that there's an option called "divorce" (or separation) and being cheated on is never the betrayed's fault?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> When will people learn that there's an option called "divorce" (or separation) and being cheated on is never the betrayed's fault?


People have been blaming their sins on other people since the Garden. Cheating will continue to be the fault of the betrayed as long as there are cheaters.



verpin zal said:


> She should have given me the Milky Way.


And, the guy in this story should have given her a 12-inch schlong.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Handy said:


> I read the same story. The betrayed H does admit to working too much and ignoring his W prior the the affair partner dying back in 2008.


 

Good for him for working hard, shows he is being a good provider. 

My husbands ex claimed that he wasn't meeting her 'emotional needs' when she divorced him after meeting another man. Presumably that man didn't either as their relationship lasted less than a year.


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## BradWesley2 (Jul 15, 2016)

Taxman said:


> I am currently reading a thread on another site. I will not mention which as they are not TAM, and could take a few pointers from the good people here, but they are mentioned here fairly commonly.
> 
> The BH and WW are in their 50's married a long time. He just discovered that from 1999 to 2008 she was in a physical affair including all of the frills. Sex that the WW would never do with her husband, romantic getaways enabled by GF's, sex in the marital house and bed, sex in the church basement (sacreligious much?). Here is the best part. The AP, his wife and child all died in a vehicle crash in 2008. There was no confront, the BH was completely out o the loop. The WW went to therapy and managed to cover her grief and recovery. This was a parallel marriage that she managed to cover up from 1999 to 2017. She never confessed until last Friday (Nov 17/17). She kept momentoes on a disused computer. He accidentally discovered it and is totally devastated. He is thoughtful and methodical, and he is doing the 180 all on his own. He has told their children due to thanksgiving, and they are devastated as well. He is dealing with a good part of his marriage being a lie. She has been the model spouse ever since, HOWEVER all of that is built on a foundation of pure fecal matter. I may be an angry arsehole, and I may be off base here, but this level of deception going on really since 1999, is absolutely unforgiveable. He needs to end this ASAP, and have her pay for her this heinous transgression. He has, at this point asked her to leave. I believe he will seek a divorce. If I were advising him, and I have some idea that his state has adultery laws, I would advise him to invoke all laws that are in his favor, she was a SAHM, never worked and used all of her free time to fxck her AP. I do not know how anyone could get over this level of deception. I believe that the life HE BUILT for her is now revoked. She will be asked to find a job, and if he invokes the adultery clauses in the divorce laws, then she walks with very very little. And to be truthful, in this case, it will look damn good on her.


What state does this couple live in?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

I'm going to take a stance here not that popular, but something I know everyone here believes to some extent.

Cheaters are people too. 

What does that mean? I don't believe that anyone is intrinsically bad. I think every action done is to make us feel good about ourselves or justified to our benefit. I am not saying that it is legitimate when viewed objectively, but most of us are no objective in our views of ourselves and our biases spill out when giving advice to others. I have been cheated (well, somewhat) on by both my ex-wives. Am I bitter about it? Absolutely. But I also understand their failures and my failures and how they views themselves and me and our marriage. One has her own demons that she can't quiet and the other was coming to grips with who she is.

But using the story above as an example. A person doesn't marry to get divorced (unless they are really broken) and most people realize cheating will lead to divorce. So, why? I don't know how much psychological work has been done on the mind of a cheater, but the obviousness is that they have justified the cheating. That their spouse is distant, or doesn't show love or have sex, or they never wanted to be married or all sorts of things. None of it is a good excuse, but they are all reasons. Nobody cheats without a reason. People can hate all they want and while I know there are gut wrenching, awful stories...cheaters are still people.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

[verpin
What, she's not giving me enough attention, right? She should have given me the Milky Way.[/b]

How about sticking to what is REASONABLE?

I do not condone cheating but I see reasons a person might have an affair. It still is not a legitimate reason to do so.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Herschel said:


> I'm going to take a stance here not that popular, but something I know everyone here believes to some extent.
> 
> Cheaters are people too.
> 
> ...


I see it in a different way, that a cheater has little integrity and low moral values. Being faithful is a decision and cheating is a decision. Lying and being deceptive are decisions. 
I see it as a very serious thing to do that shows a lack of character and complete selfishness. Putting their selfish desires above not only their spouse, but their children as well is a terrible thing to do. 

So to me a cheater isn't a good person or a nice person. BTW I wasn't cheated on in that way, but my husband was and most of the marriages in my family were ruined by adultery. So many people devastated and damaged. So many children messed up and hurt. 
So sorry, I have no sympathy at all for a cheater, especially one who has had a long affair and/or multiple affairs. Not only have they done that, but they have lied and deceived their family and have proved they cant be trusted. 

As my husband says, its just not worth it. Yet so many still do it, and that's tragic. :frown2::frown2::frown2:


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Well, my 2¢ worth is a plain fact. From 1999 to 2008, their marriage was a total lie. She had two husbands, one for sex, and one for money. Ambivalent one was merely an ATM. I have my doubts that they paid much attention to their children during that time. Ambivalent one states that the marriage was not good during that time, but he was building a business, while she got to stay at home, having her AP lay pipe on a nearly daily basis. One hopes that if there are such things as pearly gates, that when "Michael" the AP arrived there with his wife and daughter, they were allowed through, and he got the express elevator to the furnace room, where he awaits his love, may she arrive there after living in hell on earth for many years, alone and unloved. (I believe in Karma-the bus just flattened her on Friday, I believe it will back up over her shortly)

When they communicate again, I hope he tells her that the fantasy land she was living in since 1999 is now over. She will get a job and she will move into a little apartment. Based on AO's description, I believe I know where he is resident, and adultery can play a significant role in alimony, given the length and the despicable nature of the "crime", one surmises that there will be a significant price to pay. As I cannot comment on SI, all one can say is I wish him peace for the holiday season, and I hope that this dark cloud that issued from his WW's ass, dissipates and he finds something much better than what he has.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

This is one reason people have affairs. Most people on TAM advise a person divorce before turning to an affair. 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/sexlessmarriage/hanging-by-a-thread-t5391.html#p56102

Other threads have similar situations.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Rowan said:


> In my ex-husband's case, that reasoning was based on the fact that I was never supposed to find out because it wasn't any of my business. He honestly, down to his soul, truly believed that anything he did when I wasn't around wasn't any of my business and therefore couldn't impact me in any way. When I did find out and was impacted by it, he was overflowing with righteous indignation. I wasn't supposed to know. It wasn't any of my business. Full stop. If I was hurt by it, it was my own fault for finding out. For at least a couple years after our divorce, he was angry with me for discovering the truth and ruining our marriage.
> 
> So, it's not even that he thought I didn't matter. It's worse than that. It's that it never even occurred to him that I might.
> 
> Narcissism is fun.....:slap:


This describes mine perfectly.
My wife had more than a couple affirs. She had a long term with her first affair partner and a couple more peppered into that timeline. 
She was so angry with me for being hurt and finding out. Baffling to me.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

VermiciousKnid said:


> I'm way too lazy to ever do something like that. All the lying and sneaking around for years? Always looking over your shoulder, always being careful not to get caught. What a huge pain in the butt. Life is too short for that.


Exactly. Plus the very real potential to hurt your spouse, and AP (even though they may not deserve much concern), and possibly the AP's spouse/family, if there is one. Cheating is just too harmful, of whatever duration. That's why we only do fully consensual, open relationships, if we do anything at all.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

People who have long term affairs must be masters at compartmentalizing.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

It takes a special kind of evil to carry on a parallel marriage behind the backs of two spouses. I keep tabs on the posts of AO, and damn! He started negotiating a separation agreement, and it hasn't yet occurred to her that this separation is permanent, leading to divorce. I can hear the argument, it almost writes itself...but I was a good wife since Michael died. I fixed myself. You would have never known. etc etc etc, ad infinitum ad nauseum. Blech.

Anyhow, his lawyers seem to think he is in a good place, and they do plan to use her infidelity against her. I can't get over this guy's narrow focus. I have rarely seen anyone so focused.


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## arobk (Mar 17, 2017)

Taxman said:


> It takes a special kind of evil to carry on a parallel marriage behind the backs of two spouses. I keep tabs on the posts of AO, and damn! He started negotiating a separation agreement, and it hasn't yet occurred to her that this separation is permanent, leading to divorce. I can hear the argument, it almost writes itself...but I was a good wife since Michael died. I fixed myself. You would have never known. etc etc etc, ad infinitum ad nauseum. Blech.
> 
> Anyhow, his lawyers seem to think he is in a good place, and they do plan to use her infidelity against her. I can't get over this guy's narrow focus. I have rarely seen anyone so focused.


He may be somewhere on the spectrum. If I remember correctly, in his line of work, it would be of some benefit.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

arobk said:


> He may be somewhere on the spectrum. If I remember correctly, in his line of work, it would be of some benefit.


I had posted that on the thread I liked to here so I agree with you, his reactions fit what I know of it, it may even explain why he didn't notice sadly. She also has something off with her as well. I think she may be a sociopath or an extreme narcissist.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I had posted that on the thread I liked to here so I agree with you, his reactions fit what I know of it, it may even explain why he didn't notice sadly. She also has something off with her as well. I think she may be a sociopath or an extreme narcissist.


Sociopathy would explain the the LTA and the 9 year coverup. It may also explain her total lack of understanding that her actions will likely result in divorce. One hopes that eventually, she'll curse the memory of Michael, as it will have cost her everything. One hopes that the settlement that she receives is minimal. One hopes that she has to find a job, and live a meager life, as she squandered her opportunity for a good life, by fuxking Michael, and keeping quiet for years afterward. Vengeance in this case should be complete and devastating as possible.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hexagon said:


> This describes mine perfectly.
> My wife had more than a couple affirs. She had a long term with her first affair partner and a couple more peppered into that timeline.
> She was so angry with me for being hurt and finding out. Baffling to me.


You mean _*ex*-wife_, right?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Well, as I have posted elsewhere, his legal team formulated an asset settlement, her lawyer reviewed it, and did not like it, however, given the infidelity, it is fair, and she signed. I would be interested in what he offered. The little comment about the lawyer not liking it means that it is substantially less than what she'd receive if there were "no-fault" provisions in their law. One hopes that there are no spousal support provisions in the settlement, or they are so minimal that she will be forced to re-enter the workforce, and support herself.

One thought, probably because I am an angry arsehole, however, I hope that when she has been at a crap job, living a meager existence, without support of her ex-spouse and children, watching her husband's new wife enjoy the fruits of his labor, that she curses the memory of Michael, and she curses her stupidity. She could have had a good life, and she literally fuxked it away.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

This must be the vent about your cheating Ex thread....... OK, my wife cheated with a guy living in the basement who was supposed to be doing repair work on the house. I actually though of him as kind of a friend at one point. Looking back I was in serious denial to have missed all the clues and even when I started to get suspicious I gave her the benefit of the doubt. The way I found out is that she borrowed my phone which had a call recorder on it because I was dealing with some legal stuff at the time. About a month later I decided to clear all the calls I didn't need and so I went though them and found a call she made to him. Then being a programmer I hacked her email and found pictures of her with some other guy years earlier when she was supposed to be visiting her mom.


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