# Why Do I Feel So Guilty For Cheating On A Spouse Who Deserves It?



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

*He deserved it? SMH...*


Why Do I Feel So Guilty For Cheating On A Spouse Who Deserves It?

By: Katie Lersch: There is an assumption that people who cheat don’t feel all that guilty about it. After all, if there was any guilt, they probably wouldn’t cheat in the first place. If it helps, I can clarify that I hear from some of these folks and I can tell you that many of them feel so guilty that they are looking for tips on how to manage the feelings – which are negatively affecting their lives. Many of them wonder why they feel so guilty. Because some of them feel at least somewhat justified in cheating. They feel that their spouse wasn’t holding up their end of the bargain or was acting in such a way that he (or she) deserved the betrayal.

A wife might say: “quite honestly, for the last five years, my husband has been horrible to me. He is not supportive. When I lost my job, instead of comforting me and telling me that he would pick up the slack, he encouraged me to take any job that paid right away. As a result, I’m very unhappy in my dead end job but he never seems to care. After I lost a pregnancy, I caught him chatting with people online rather than supporting me. His excuse is that he was only flirting with these people, but that he would never meet them face to face. He doesn’t show me the compassion and care that most people show for their spouse. I often feel ignored. So yes, I did cheat with a man at my dead end job. I honestly think that this was a coping mechanism. And I didn’t expect to feel guilty about it because my husband is so awful, that I don’t see how he could ever expect my loyalty. The thing is, I do feel guilty. Awfully guilty. Every time I lie to my husband or every time I come home late from being with the other guy and he is sitting at home where he should be, I feel just horrible about it. And I do not understand why this is. He deserves any bad behavior that comes his way after the way that he has treated me. So why do I feel so badly about it?”

I can only speculate, but I certainly have a theory. After my own husband’s affair, I was so awful to him. I never cheated in retaliation. Frankly, I didn’t want anything to do with the opposite sex whatsoever at that point. But I was extremely sarcastic and critical. I had no problem calling him awful names and attacking him personally. And I would sometimes get finished berating him and I would go in my room and cry.

I didn’t understand why “getting it all out” didn’t make me feel better and instead made me feel worse. This went on for a while until it dawned on me why I was feeling so badly. I was conducting myself in a way that was not in alignment with the type of person that I considered myself to be. I was stooping to a level that I never wanted to visit.

Did my husband deserve my unkindness? Absolutely. But honestly, that did not make my behavior right. I had a recent experience that further proves my point. My family was on vacation and this sour, nasty, mean woman actually butted my child in line. She literally pushed him out of her way and said something that I can’t even repeat here. I tried to approach the situation calmly, asking her what the problem seemed to be. Well, the only way I can accurately describe her response is to say that she went off – screaming and yelling obscenities. I wish I could tell you that I took the high road. But I did not. I was so shocked and angry that she would act this way at a family outing with children around that I yelled right back. One look at my family’s shocked faces stopped me, and I eventually muttered “clearly, you have bigger problems than this family outing.” And I walked away in a huff.

But I found myself crying after that incident, too. And I believe the reason is that I knew that I had stooped to her level and this is not the kind of person I want to be. I was matching her very bad behavior with behavior that is very bad for me. I want to be in control of my actions. I do not want to model this kind of behavior to my family. I let myself down. Even though I was justified.

I suspect you are going through the same thing. You know that your husband’s behavior makes your cheating somewhat understandable. But, you still know that it is wrong. You still know that you have broken a promise to yourself and to your spouse. Because quite honestly, there really isn’t justification for cheating. So, you know that, in a way, you’ve let yourself down because this is not the kind of person you want to be.

With all of this said, what is done is done. You can’t change it. You can only make it right at this point. And ultimately, what you decide to do with your marriage is up to you. But I suggest that you deal with your marriage rather than retaliate because of it – even if your husband’s behavior is so bad that you would be justified if you didn’t.

Why? Because if you conduct yourself in a way that is different from your own life standards and ideals, you know it in your gut. And you will take that regret and that sorrow into your next relationship or into your marriage if you choose to save it. And life is too short for that, especially when you are having such strong feelings of guilt.

After a while of being deplorable to my husband after his affair, I realized that in order to really heal, I needed to act like the mature adult that I knew myself to be. This required me to take the high road, but I always felt at peace with that. I always felt worse when I conducted myself badly and better when I conducted myself well.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

tl;dr

Did she confess the affair to her husband?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I find it amazing that a WS ever has to be told that cheating is a bad thing.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> tl;dr
> 
> Did she confess the affair to her husband?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


no not according to the article...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> I find it amazing that a WS ever has to be told that cheating is a bad thing.


They know, they also know what it will do to their BS - but they don't care....ego kibbles come first...


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

In my opinion I think all persons who cheat, deep down, know that it is wrong. They focus on all that they feel they're spouse does wrong, not enough affection, lack of love, complacent, whatever the reason may be. Do they know it's bad? Do they know it's wrong? I believe they do, which is why they attempt to justify they're actions. The effect on the spouse is what a person who cheats may never fully understand. 

My wife is remorseful, regretful, and empathetic towards me, but it took a long time for her to feel my pain. That is why I stay, she is showing complete remorse. I write from my heart, what I felt as I go through this journey. At times it was incredibly painful and at times it was manageable. One thing I know to be true is my wife can never feel all the pain not fully understand what infidelity has done to me. 

I know my wife has felt guilty, she felt cheating was a deal breaker for me, as I did, but we are reconciling. Did the guilt stop her from having an affair? No, because she focused on all I did wrong, then believed our marriage was over. With OM supporting her every complaint it was only a matter of time before they're affair would go physical. At no time did she think of me or the effect her actions would have on me. 

My wife felt guilt, dirty, unworthy, and sad after having sex with the OM. But not enough that she thought to end the affair. At least not for some months before she ended the affair. She never thought about her actions towards OM's family. That she had a hand in destroying his marriage as well as her own. 

It may surprise some, but I don't think people who cheat are the scum of the earth. They are human as are all of us, they make bad choices just as people who don't cheat do. I have felt guilty after making a bad choice, I imagine some who read this post do also, true it wasn't the same magnitude as infidelity, but I can't say I'm perfect either. Part of human nature is that we can't be perfect, we can't always see what is best for us, we do the best we can. Yet sometimes we become completely consumed, we lose our way, we become sad or depressed, and sometimes things are so bad we commit suicide. Can you imagine how lost that person must feel that death is the only answer? How happy can that person be? How do they control they're happiness when they are so sad? 

Infidelity causes much harm, whether you are the wayward or betrayed, you don't know how devastating it is until it has happened to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Totally agree-well put DO! 

I knew it was wrong, 

NEVER thought for a moment what it would do to my spouse or my child or my marriage

NEVER thought about what consequences it could have to my marriage- not for a second

Convinced myself that the marriage was fatally flawed due to husbands behaviours but didn't want to leave it

NEVER thought even a little bit about what powerful emotions infidelity could cause- until I suspected H of an A.

Now I know how it feels to think a Spouse is having/had one- I also believe that to know with certainty is more powerful and painful. A slaughter as opposed to a slow kill
Unless you are walking in the BS shoes it is inconceivable that you can "get" it. You don't know with certainty what you would do in their place. MC has said many times that I may feel this way (wanting to work on the M) while having suspicions but if I know with certainty I may have a completely different reaction. 

Knowing could mean the death of the M. As unfair as it seems my own A years ago will not effect whether or not I personally am able to handle it psychologically and can stay and work on things successfully.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I did this. I didn't have the mindset BEFORE I cheated that he deserved it. Not in the least. The night of, I was angry, lonely, feeling neglected and all out sick of my husbands behavior. I did not "in the moment" think of these things, but they had been in my head all night. I allowed my depressed? and people pleasing attitude to make my decisions for me. 

I've regretted it ever since. Hell I even went through a 3 year period of denial. Thinking if I convinced MYSELF it didn't happen, then it would be like it really didn't. I never forgot, and I never stopped feeling guilty, but it's like I pushed it down into this deep place where I couldn't touch it.

I think anyone with a heart would feel guilty. But I don't understand why they would justify their guilt by saying the other deserved it. 

I think my guilt comes from how much I hurt him and also how I stepped outside of my marriage vows in such a selfish way. I did something so incredibly selfish and my guilt eats at me.

My own husband said to me at one point "I may not be the worlds greatest husband, but no one deserves this". He himself admitted at one point he hasn't been the greatest partner, while simultaneously letting me know that even if a person is the ****tiest person EVER they don't deserve to be crushed like that.

No one DESERVES that. Even as a cheater myself, I can't imagine any wayward spouse thinking someone deserved that. I have to think you have a very cold soul if you think anyone actually deserves sonething like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

The problem I think is that having not been in the BS place they have no idea exactly what it is (the magnitude and intensity of the devastation)


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## thebirdman (Apr 5, 2014)

I really didn't care what my wife deserved or wanted. I was completely focused on what I thought I deserved or wanted. It wasn't until the affair was already in motion that I realized that it wasn't really what I wanted at all.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

LH, I hope you can forgive yourself someday. You are carrying way too much guilt, imo.

Great article, OP. Whenever we act in a way that is in conflict with our deepest values, we sin against ourselves. Cheating, watching porn, seeking revenge, overeating, smoking, etc. all risk our ending up feeling bad about ourselves.

_A clean life is its own reward._


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> I'll be the devil advocate. My perception is, _"yes I treated you like crap for a long time, didn't support you the times you really needed it, ignored your needs despite your complaints, put you dead last in my list of priorities, talked to you like a dog, but you did worse; you cheated on me. You never thought the effect this would have on me. I never knew how selfish you really are."_
> I've got news for some of you. People seldom cheat out of retaliation. *They cheat because somebody else can feed a hunger. * When you're grinding them down, showing how little their welfare means to you, beware of someone who may be lifting them up and and making them feel that your deficient treatment of them is your problem and not theirs. (of course there are some who cheat no matter what. If you tangle with one of these, you'll be road kill)


Yep. It's all about meeting needs.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I'll be the devil advocate. My perception is, "yes I treated you like crap for a long time, didn't support you the times you really needed it, ignored your needs despite your complaints, put you dead last in my list of priorities, talked to you like a dog, but you did worse; you cheated on me. You never thought the effect this would have on me. I never knew how selfish you really are."
I've got news for some of you. People seldom cheat out of retaliation. They cheat because somebody else can feed a hunger. When you're grinding them down, showing how little their welfare means to you, beware of someone who may be lifting them up and and making them feel that your deficient treatment of them is your problem and not theirs. (of course there are some who cheat no matter what. If you tangle with one of these, you'll be back with "after I forgave him/her, their behavior is still suspicious" and end up road kill anyway.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

LosingHim should feel guilty. (Sorry LH, I'm not trying to beat up on you). You betray your partner and guilt should follow in a normal person. She's not engaged in self-flagellation. I'd like to hope she's mourning the loss of a relationship and her part in it. 

The bigger problem for some (although clearly not all) is when the A becomes justified in the WS's mind, as in this article. This usually comes after the fact. The WS is convinced, either by themselves because they can't handle the guilt, or some well-meaning and thoroughly misguided friend that the A could not be helped. Your BS was mean, or abusive or neglectful-whether any of that was true or not. The WS starts carrying a victim mentality. They justify and convince themselves that the A was inevitable or beyond their control. What they ignore is that they always had a choice. They chose to have an A rather than work on the marriage or end the relationship. They chose badly and consequences follow.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> LosingHim should feel guilty. (Sorry LH, I'm not trying to beat up on you). You betray your partner and guilt should follow in a normal person. She's not engaged in self-flagellation. I'd like to hope she's mourning the loss of a relationship and her part .


I understand what you're saying, I AM beating myself up quite a bit. But I think that's normal in anyone with a heart. If you're not beating yourself up for hurting people, do you really have a soul? I know I shouldn't beat myself up forever, but I think it's normal for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IDon'tKnowAnymore (Jul 6, 2015)

What?!
I'm sorry, but I didn't even bother to read past the title.
There is no such thing as cheating on someone who "deserved it." 
Cheating is cheating.
There's no excuse.
You're not happy? Talk about it, get help, get therapy, do what you can to fix it. Can't fix it? Then get out.
Don't cheat.
Period.


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## IDon'tKnowAnymore (Jul 6, 2015)

PS - THAT'S WHY you feel guilty.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Sort of^.

GUILT comes from an action that is at odds with an intention.

Most people who marry and make a vow of fidelity *intend* to stay faithful. Noone wants to be an oathbreaker, and destroy their own sense of honour.

But all the circumstance you read here on TAM; mostly emotional wounding over a period of years from unmet needs, makes people vulnerable to cheating. As another poster wrote, its rarely about physical sex, but more about unmet emotional needs.

In a moment of weakness, cheating happens. This is the *action* that is at odds with the intent to be faithful. Cheating often starts as emotional which, unchecked, leads to physical cheating. Denial, rationalization, etc. all then come into play for a cheater who really doesn't want to be divorced. Because, if they did, they would have divorced first before finding another partner.

What happens next really depends on the people involved. It's all a tragic, quite predictable--and preventable--chain of events.

Provided that people recognize what is happening while it is happening. Easier said than done when one is in "the fog" as its called here.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

If I cheated on my spouse I would feel equally guilty regardless of how much she "deserved it" because I would know that I had let myself down and had cheated on myself more than anything. 

I don't think "deserving it" has anything to do with it. It's a matter of self respect. If I ever got to the point where I didn't feel guilt for such a thing, then I think I would be a lost cause.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

unmet needs = entitlement to cheat


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think it is just reality.

I can see why it would be hurtful to hear, though.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

jld said:


> I think it is just reality.
> 
> I can see why it would be hurtful to hear, though.


Are you saying you can see why hearing there are unmet needs in a marriage would be hurtful to hear, and that is just reality?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Are you saying you can see why hearing there are unmet needs in a marriage would be hurtful to hear, and that is just reality?


Some people think that if your needs are not being met in your marriage - you can go and cheat - its a twisted view but some people do view it that way.....which is why certain posters on this site have help me become more and more pro-RA....


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I agree completely. I just wanted to make sure I understood what jld was saying.

IMO, unmet needs is crap disguising blame-shifting. To raise unmet needs as an excuse/justification/explanation (how ever you feel comfortable expressing that) for infidelity is a heartless manner of stating that the WS selfish needs are somehow superior to the BS. It also ignores the numerous BS here who were never emotionally wounded or neglected or abused the WS. There are also far too many TAM posters here who were subjected to emotion wounds by their partners who never cheated.

To say the wedding vows are nothing more than your intentions to stay faithful completely demeans the state of marriage. Its like saying "I'm really hoping I won't go screw around behind your back, but if you're not meeting my needs-oh well." If that is the way someone thinks on their wedding day they have no business getting married.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I agree that cheating is never right, but....we are all human. I think everyone can potentially be pushed to a point where they dislike their spouse so much that they don't even see themselves as married anymore. With that said I am of the belief that most of the time people rewrite history or paint their spouse in a negative light just so that they can do whatever they want.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> I agree completely. I just wanted to make sure I understood what jld was saying.
> 
> IMO, unmet needs is crap disguising blame-shifting. To raise unmet needs as an excuse/justification/explanation (how ever you feel comfortable expressing that) for infidelity is a heartless manner of stating that the WS selfish needs are somehow superior to the BS. It also ignores the numerous BS here who were never emotionally wounded or neglected or abused the WS. There are also far too many TAM posters here who were subjected to emotion wounds by their partners who never cheated.
> 
> To say the wedding vows are nothing more than your intentions to stay faithful completely demeans the state of marriage. Its like saying "I'm really hoping I won't go screw around behind your back, but if you're not meeting my needs-oh well." If that is the way someone thinks on their wedding day they have no business getting married.



I think this is a debate that will never be resolved. I have however moved considerably into the camp of being pro-RA - carefully planned and with the right partner - the only way a cheater will ever truly understand is if they get cheated on....I do concede it will not work in all cases but in many it will..and then lets see the cheater pontificate about affairs....


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Are you saying you can see why hearing there are unmet needs in a marriage would be hurtful to hear, and that is just reality?


From what I have read, cheating happens when there are unmet needs. I think Dr. Harley has said that, anyway. Not that everyone will cope with unmet needs in that way, though.

I can understand why a BS would be hurt to hear that unmet needs are the cause of cheating. They might see it as blaming them somehow. I don't think it should be taken that way, though.

Thinking in terms of needs, and figuring out how to meet them in healthy ways, should be helpful. But it is not always possible to meet those needs, or at least not in healthy ways. Serial cheating comes to mind. Or same sex cheating. Divorce seems like the healthiest choice for both in those situations.

Acknowledging that those needs cannot be met, and then moving on, without blaming either party, could be helpful. Hard to do, but helpful.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

What a load of crap.

And it does nothing to address other instances of infidelity, such as where the abusive spouse is the partner is the one cheating-or when serial cheating is present.

And yes, spouting off unmet needs is blame-shifting. The underlying and always unsaid conclusion from Dr. Harley is that if the BS had met those needs, the WS wouldn't have cheated.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> What a load of crap.
> 
> And it does nothing to address other instances of infidelity, such as where the abusive spouse is the partner is the one cheating-or when serial cheating is present.
> 
> *And yes, spouting off unmet needs is blame-shifting.* The underlying and always unsaid conclusion from Dr. Harley is that if the BS had met those needs, the WS wouldn't have cheated.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Living without your needs being met for a long period of time can make one vulnerable to searching for someone to meet them outside of the marriage. But that doesn't explain why some people in that situation cheat and some never will. There is also the factor of so called "demonizing" and rewriting history. That's where a particular fault or faults of your spouse get greatly exaggerated in order to justify the infidelity. "Gee I wish we'd go out more" becomes "we never go out" and that becomes "he's never taken me anywhere because he really doesn't love me." Or "I know she's dealing with a medical issue right now but I wish we'd have more sex" becomes "I bet she doesn't even have a medical issue" which then becomes "she's always been a frigid b!tch."


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

bfree said:


> Living without your needs being met for a long period of time can make one vulnerable to searching for someone to meet them outside of the marriage. But that doesn't explain why some people in that situation cheat and some never will. There is also the factor of so called "demonizing" and rewriting history. That's where a particular fault or faults of your spouse get greatly exaggerated in order to justify the infidelity. "Gee I wish we'd go out more" becomes "we never go out" and that becomes "he's never taken me anywhere because he really doesn't love me." Or "I know she's dealing with a medical issue right now but I wish we'd have more sex" becomes "I bet she doesn't even have a medical issue" which then becomes "she's always been a frigid b!tch."


Cheaters find ways to rationalize their sh!tty behavior....


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lots of people deserve to be dumped, but nobody deserves to be cheated on.

The only one that can take away your honour is yourself.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Lots of people deserve to be dumped, but nobody deserves to be cheated on.
> 
> The only one that can take away your honour is yourself.


Agree in principle but I must admit I have zero sympathy for a cheater who is the victim of an RA. I know I'm a terrible person. >


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

To anyone and everyone guilty of an unconfessed infidelity, I say this...

If you _truly_ believe that your spouse deserved (or deserves) your infidelity, then _why haven't you confessed to it?_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agree in principle but I must admit I have zero sympathy for a cheater who is the victim of an RA. I know I'm a terrible person. >


And what does that acheive? Nothing. Because it lays guilt on the person that was cheated on.

The best revenge is living well. Which means either leaving a cheater, or reconciling totally.

Life's too short for this kind of ****.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> And what does that acheive? Nothing. Because it lays guilt on the person that was cheated on.
> 
> The best revenge is living well. Which means either leaving a cheater, or reconciling totally.
> 
> Life's too short for this kind of ****.


Again...agree in principle..but I have no sympathy for a cheater who finds themselves on the receiving end of an affair...the only way a cheater knows what they have done it to get cheated on themselves...


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> I agree that cheating is never right, but....we are all human. I think everyone can potentially be pushed to a point where they dislike their spouse so much that they don't even see themselves as married anymore. With that said I am of the belief that most of the time people rewrite history or paint their spouse in a negative light just so that they can do whatever they want.


That would be a lot better excuse if the one who doesn't "even see themselves as married anymore" would remember to let the other spouse know that.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I shake my head in both dismay and sympathy for anyone who would sell their integrity for so little.

Additionally (and I realize that this is a very general statement), I'd think that, if a given BS's default reaction to experiencing infidelity is to turn around and commit it himself (or herself), then he or she probably wasn't terribly devoted to his or her marriage, spouse, and family.



Truthseeker1 said:


> Again...agree in principle..but I have no sympathy for a cheater who finds themselves on the receiving end of an affair...the only way a cheater knows what they have done it to get cheated on themselves...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Again...agree in principle..but I have no sympathy for a cheater who finds themselves on the receiving end of an affair...the only way a cheater knows what they have done it to get cheated on themselves...


Actually, I'm very good friends with a woman who had her first husband cheat on her.

So she cheated on him.

The marriage flamed out of course, and even though she's moved on and is happy in her next marriage, she still feels guilt over that revenge affair. Which was also tinged with lowering herself to her ex husband's level so she could stay with him.

She could have left, taking the high road, and would have viewed the whole thing as a learning experience. But now she learned that she can be guilty of cheating just like any other cheater.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

technovelist said:


> That would be a lot better excuse if the one who doesn't "even see themselves as married anymore" would remember to let the other spouse know that.


Its just a rationalization so they dont view themselves as the bad guy...but I bet those same WSs would not accept the "excuse" of I "was distraught and wanted you to know how it feels" if their spouse had an RA..see how that works? The BS is always behind...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> I shake my head in both dismay and sympathy for anyone who would sell their integrity for so little.
> 
> Additionally (and I realize that this is a very general statement), I'd think that, if a given BS's default reaction to experiencing infidelity is to turn around and commit it himself (or herself), then he or she probably wasn't terribly devoted to his or her marriage, spouse, and family.
> 
> ...


I disagree 100% - some people do it simply for revenge and would not have cheated otherwise...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Actually, I'm very good friends with a woman who had her first husband cheat on her.
> 
> So she cheated on him.
> 
> ...


Well your friend shouldnt be so tough on herself...did her RA not work on her XH...or did it?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Well your friend shouldnt be so tough on herself...did her RA not work on her XH...or did it?


Nope, he left when he found out.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Nope, he left when he found out.


So her XH is a cheater and a hypocrite - nice combo there ..so it did work since he got scorched and ran away with his tail between his legs like a little punk...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I disagree 100% - some people do it simply for revenge and would not have cheated otherwise...


Such a petty, immature concept.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> IMO, unmet needs is crap disguising blame-shifting. To raise unmet needs as an excuse/justification/explanation (how ever you feel comfortable expressing that) for infidelity is a heartless manner of stating that the WS selfish needs are somehow superior to the BS.


Every intentional tort, cheating included, has three elements; pressure, opportunity, justification. Like beauty, justification is in the eye of the beholder, keeping in mind that justification is for the benefit of assuaging the tortfeasor, not the victims. So you can't expect these justifications to always sound logical and give everybody warm and fuzzy feelings.
But regardless of the stated justification, the BH still has to deal with the fact that his wife developed a low interest in him before she got involved in an affair. Getting the affair partner out of the picture still ain't gonna make her think of the husband as the most desirable man alive.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agree in principle but I must admit I have zero sympathy for a cheater who is the victim of an RA. I know I'm a terrible person. >


just another way of saying the other spouse "caused" infidelity.

revenge is not attractive


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Such a petty, immature concept.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Forgive me for not being enlightened...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> just another way of saying the other spouse "caused" infidelity.
> 
> *revenge is not attractive*


Perhaps...but back to my original point I have zero sympathy for a cheater who is the victim of infidelity...


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Forgive me for not being enlightened...


You are forgiven. Go in peace.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

bfree said:


> You are forgiven. Go in peace.


Thank you! :grin2:


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> Every intentional tort, cheating included, has three elements; pressure, opportunity, justification. Like beauty, justification is in the eye of the beholder, keeping in mind that justification is for the benefit of assuaging the tortfeasor, not the victims. So you can't expect these justifications to always sound logical and give everybody warm and fuzzy feelings.
> But regardless of the stated justification, the BH still has to deal with the fact that his wife developed a low interest in him before she got involved in an affair. Getting the affair partner out of the picture still ain't gonna make her think of the husband as the most desirable man alive.


the justification remains bs.
some people cheat and others do not, regardless of "unmet needs."


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I suppose these debates about unmet needs and revenge affairs could go on for possibly a hundred more pages. We all have beliefs, principles, morals, values, character, all of how we have modeled our own self to be. We have passion for our beliefs, which is why we may post when we feel strongly about another post. A revenge affair in my opinion is wrong, as you probably sacrificed your own beliefs for revenge. So what are you now? Happy, joyful, when simply all that has been done is destroy another human being. 

Would you be proud that you destroyed another human? At the same time I struggle to not take revenge on OM. I have held consequences to my wife, but not nearly enough to OM. How do I do this? He invaded my family, what punishment or consequence does he get from me? What justice is given to me, or even the OM for that matter? 

The fact is no justice is served to the betrayed spouse. It is a very difficult aspect of infidelity to accept if you are reconciling. I know I struggled with this and still do today, but I have accepted that justice will evade me. The fact is, to reconcile you have to accept the intricacies of infidelity no matter how hard or bitter it is to accept.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I suppose these debates about unmet needs and revenge affairs could go on for possibly a hundred more pages. We all have beliefs, principles, morals, values, character, all of how we have modeled our own self to be. We have passion for our beliefs, which is why we may post when we feel strongly about another post. A revenge affair in my opinion is wrong, as you probably sacrificed your own beliefs for revenge. So what are you now? Happy, joyful, when simply all that has been done is destroy another human being.
> 
> Would you be proud that you destroyed another human? At the same time I struggle to not take revenge on OM. I have held consequences to my wife, but not nearly enough to OM. How do I do this? He invaded my family, what punishment or consequence does he get from me? What justice is given to me, or even the OM for that matter?
> *
> ...


So, so true...but the thing is the OM or OW did not make a vow to you but your H or W did - so justice for the AP is merely nuclear exposure...and I mean nuclear - expose to their spouses, family, workplace, etc - outside of that any other revenge comes with a jail sentence - I would discourage you from focusing on the OM - he did not force your wife - she went along willingly...just my two cents...

Hope you are doing better and enjoying your boys!!!


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Infidelity is a debt that can never be repaid, it can only be pardoned.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Perhaps...but back to my original point I have zero sympathy for a cheater who is the victim of infidelity...


Me either, but you can feel that way while simultaneously realizing that what the BS-turned-WS has done or is doing is wrong.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Me either, but you can feel that way while simultaneously realizing that what the BS-turned-WS has done or is doing is wrong.


I view it as striking back and really do not come down hard on BS who have RAs - I guess its a character flaw on my part...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I disagree 100% - some people do it simply for revenge and would not have cheated otherwise...


...and some people cheat because "they were neglected and wouldn't have cheated otherwise".

Once you start the blame game, where does it stop?

Each of us is accountable for our own decisions, regardless of whatever stimuli may have prompted us to choose them.


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## dwight987 (Jul 24, 2011)

I went through tremendous guilt when my exwife found out I cheated. After 13 years of marriage and raising 7 kids (including stepkids), she divorced me. As a christian, I had no defense. I knew it was wrong. 
It was just a fun party night at a friends house and everyone feel asleep except me a a women there...and it happened. I eventually left that lifestyle, got into church, became a family man. Then boom, years later she found out and it tore her apart. Biblically, she had a right to divorce me. I agonized and wanted to kill myself, couldn't face my kids, had to move out. Cried, cried cried cried. Cried at work (privately in bathroom), in car, and new apartment. Stayed drunk all weekend to just sleep. Didn't want to wake up at all. Stayed close to death and didn't want to be awake except for work. Later Found out I was reeking of alcohol all the time.
Pleaded with God and ex for forgiveness over and over, but the pain and guilt continued. Tried everything to save my marriage. Wasll all ove the internet and forums, but she moved on and remarried another (10 years younger) man.
Eventually, I knew I had to live. Accepted the pain my actions caused. Joined a mens bible study. Joined NMMNG forum. Cut the drinking down tremendously and lost alot of weight. Started going back to church. Started exercising. And I listed to Dr Dave (This site: http://positivethinkingradio.com/ ) alot. Its 6 years later and I'm OK now (I think). I also realize she did wrong too, but that's not my focus. Its been a sad learning lesson, and I still miss the old family life at times. But the impact has affected so many people (including kids, friends, relatives). And I am aware that she could probably write a book on her pain...and the kids too. A sad learning lesson


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I wonder why cheaters who complain about their unmet needs never seem to consider if their BS had unmet needs. Selfishness is my guess The me approach.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

dwight987 said:


> I went through tremendous guilt when my exwife found out I cheated. After 13 years of marriage and raising 7 kids (including stepkids), she divorced me. As a christian, I had no defense. I knew it was wrong.
> It was just a fun party night at a friends house and everyone feel asleep except me a a women there...and it happened.


I'll stop you right there...

It didn't "happen". _You *did* it._

Automobile accidents happen. Lightning strikes happen. Layoffs happen.

_This was a *CHOICE* that you made._

Aside from that, it's good to see that you've accepted responsibility for your actions and that you're (mostly) doing better these days.

Just wondering... how did your ex discover your infidelity?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> ...and some people cheat because "they were neglected and wouldn't have cheated otherwise".
> 
> Once you start the blame game, where does it stop?
> 
> Each of us is accountable for our own decisions, regardless of whatever stimuli may have prompted us to choose them.


Gus your point is not without its merits..I guess I'm just a vindicitive pr!ck.... :grin2:


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Gus your point is not without its merits..I guess I'm just a vindicitive pr!ck.... :grin2:




Lmfaoro!!!!! You made me cry from laughing!! Who woulda thunk it!!!!>
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Lmfaoro!!!!! You made me cry from laughing!! Who woulda thunk it!!!!>
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL Glad I could make you laugh..I'm just being honest..I'd like to say Im above petty revenge but I know I'm not...>


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> So, so true...but the thing is the OM or OW did not make a vow to you but your H or W did - so justice for the AP is merely nuclear exposure...and I mean nuclear - expose to their spouses, family, workplace, etc - outside of that any other revenge comes with a jail sentence - I would discourage you from focusing on the OM - he did not force your wife - she went along willingly...just my two cents...
> 
> Hope you are doing better and enjoying your boys!!!




Even though OM did not make vows to me, I was taught from a young age that you do not go after another mans wife, you respect marriage. I probably live in the past but even if I'm single I never went after a married woman. My wife accepting OM's advances that makes her 50% at fault. The OM is also 50% to blame as my wife couldn't cheat without another. So OM does in fact deserve revenge for invading my family. The problem is if I extract that revenge I'm going against my beliefs, I would be harming another human being for my pleasure. A jail sentence would also follow, something I'm not looking to forward too. So justice evades me because I'm a law abiding citizen.

Unmet needs is one nuance or even a contributing factor towards infidelity. Infidelity is comprised of many things, unmet needs, I think it can contribute but is a very fragile reason. Truthfully, you had sex with someone because he complimented you? I don't think so. But it could be just one more reason on top of others that the WS lumps together to see you as a bad spouse. A spouse who doesn't care, didn't show me affection, verbally abusive or whatever. It's usually more then just one reason. Are needs important, yes very much so, but cheating because they weren't met? No. My needs weren't met while my wife had an affair, yet I didn't go off and have sex with a coworker. 

Revenge affairs, sorry truthseeker1 I'm not very much in favor of them. Even if the right person is found who would that be? Why would you throw away who you are just for revenge? I would rather I can look in the mirror and be quite happy I didn't throw my beliefs, morals, or values aside to hurt someone. Just so my spouse can feel my pain, that won't make what I'm going through any easier. In fact this would just be so much more to work through. That's not something I want to do, I have enough pain, I don't need to be adding more to this mountain of crap. 

I don't look down on someone who has a revenge affair but it certainly is not for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Even though OM did not make vows to me, I was taught from a young age that you do not go after another mans wife, you respect marriage. I probably live in the past but even if I'm single I never went after a married woman. My wife accepting OM's advances that makes her 50% at fault. The OM is also 50% to blame as my wife couldn't cheat without another. So OM does in fact deserve revenge for invading my family. The problem is if I extract that revenge I'm going against my beliefs, I would be harming another human being for my pleasure. A jail sentence would also follow, something I'm not looking to forward too. So justice evades me because I'm a law abiding citizen.
> 
> Unmet needs is one nuance or even a contributing factor towards infidelity. Infidelity is comprised of many things, unmet needs, I think it can contribute but is a very fragile reason. Truthfully, you had sex with someone because he complimented you? I don't think so. But it could be just one more reason on top of others that the WS lumps together to see you as a bad spouse. A spouse who doesn't care, didn't show me affection, verbally abusive or whatever. It's usually more then just one reason. Are needs important, yes very much so, but cheating because they weren't met? No. My needs weren't met while my wife had an affair, yet I didn't go off and have sex with a coworker.
> 
> ...


Youmake a lot of sense, drifting - and are a good man..unlike yours truly :laugh:


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

workindad said:


> I wonder why cheaters who complain about their unmet needs never seem to consider if their BS had unmet needs. Selfishness is my guess The me approach.


this is all they have to stand on! 

did you think they would say "oh i was just bored and needed a little excitement?" :crying:

the truth can further be found by the fact that way-wards who, because of the BS' deplorable neglect, abusiveness and overall poor treatment that CAUSED them to have an affair.......want to R.

WTF? if the BS treatment was so horrible as to go on and have an affair...then why R? what an absolute load of rubbish that once the affair is outed.....all of a sudden the problems in the marriage are "fixable".


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> LOL Glad I could make you laugh..I'm just being honest..I'd like to say Im above petty revenge but I know I'm not...>


I am in your camp. i too believe the only way a wayward can understand is when it happens to them. 

Thieves are only outraged when they get stolen from.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

IDon'tKnowAnymore said:


> What?!
> I'm sorry, but I didn't even bother to read past the title.
> There is no such thing as cheating on someone who "deserved it."
> Cheating is cheating.
> ...



agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> I agree completely. I just wanted to make sure I understood what jld was saying.
> 
> IMO, unmet needs is crap disguising blame-shifting. To raise unmet needs as an excuse/justification/explanation (how ever you feel comfortable expressing that) for infidelity is a heartless manner of stating that the WS selfish needs are somehow superior to the BS. It also ignores the numerous BS here who were never emotionally wounded or neglected or abused the WS. There are also far too many TAM posters here who were subjected to emotion wounds by their partners who never cheated.
> 
> To say the wedding vows are nothing more than your intentions to stay faithful completely demeans the state of marriage. Its like saying "I'm really hoping I won't go screw around behind your back, but if you're not meeting my needs-oh well." If that is the way someone thinks on their wedding day they have no business getting married.



I agree completely Pluto


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

amazing that the betrayed spouse in this case not only got cheated on but also treated like s##t as well.

Yet, now that the wayward came around to her senses and stopped, is he supposed to be grateful ????

Sounds like she has terminal weaknesses and he would be better off without her.


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## Welsh15 (Feb 24, 2014)

drifting on said:


> In my opinion I think all persons who cheat, deep down, know that it is wrong. They focus on all that they feel they're spouse does wrong, not enough affection, lack of love, complacent, whatever the reason may be. Do they know it's bad? Do they know it's wrong? I believe they do, which is why they attempt to justify they're actions. The effect on the spouse is what a person who cheats may never fully understand.
> 
> My wife is remorseful, regretful, and empathetic towards me, but it took a long time for her to feel my pain. That is why I stay, she is showing complete remorse. I write from my heart, what I felt as I go through this journey. At times it was incredibly painful and at times it was manageable. One thing I know to be true is my wife can never feel all the pain not fully understand what infidelity has done to me.
> 
> ...




Drifting On. I can't commend you enough for the strength and perspective of your comment here. You capture my feelings with my wife exactly at DDay plus 2 years.. We share a similar journey in reconciling my friend... Best wishes to you and your wife.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Youmake a lot of sense, drifting - and are a good man..unlike yours truly :laugh:




Truthseeker1, you are a good man also, we just have different approaches to the problem before us. As you know my wife's affair had brought me to my knees, as a man that hurts enough alone. It's the way I was brought to my knees, and it's how I recover that is most important. We may see things differently and do things differently, but our end goal is to be healthy and happy. Because we have different approaches of see things a little differently doesn't make either one of us less a man. You are a good friend, one who has supported and challenged me, and all the while you have stood in my corner. I thank you for that, there are times I am in desperate need of support. My wish is that in the next few years we can have a TAM meeting, so I can buy a drink for everyone who has helped me through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Welsh15 said:


> Drifting On. I can't commend you enough for the strength and perspective of your comment here. You capture my feelings with my wife exactly at DDay plus 2 years.. We share a similar journey in reconciling my friend... Best wishes to you and your wife.




Welsh15

This may enrage some here but I don't view my wife as a bad person, she is a good person who became lost. Not all cheaters are scum, they aren't all bad people, they have all made a terrible choice. My wife didn't actually kill somebody, I'm still breathing although I say she killed who I was. I'm not perfect, obviously she isn't either, but her infidelity affected nobody here. It affected OM's wife and kids as OM affected me and my kids. She wasn't the aggressor, she stopped the affair, albeit to late but she did stop it. I just don't see her as a monster that we think all WS's are. No, she is a human being who made a terrible choice and is now trying to atone for her actions. 

I know of a church that has an ex con as the pastor, he started this church in his living room, he now has a church and over two hundred fifty members. He changed, he is changing others, and he is doing good with the life he has left. Yes he made a bad choice, got caught, and after prison is doing good. Why can't some WS's do this? Why can't they change? They can if they want it, they can do so much good if they change themselves. I was a young punk and changed my life. My most humbling times were atoning to the people I hurt as a young punk. But I did it. I went and knocked on their doors, I apologized in person and then gave them forty hours of my time in labor. I am friends with most of them to this day. I changed, my wife can too. 

Welsh15, I thank you for the kind words you spoke of me, I try each and every day to make a difference in this world. I've seen far too many brutal acts, acts on people that would make you vomit. But you also have to beware, not everyone can be rehabilitated. I hope you have great success in your reconciliation, just as I hope that I do. Best of luck to you Welsh15, stay strong and I hope you find peace and happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Drifting on, your posts have always seemed very sincere to me. I think you were able to forgive your wife in part because you know you have not lived a perfect life yourself. You have a base of humility to work from.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

jld said:


> Drifting on, your posts have always seemed very sincere to me. I think you were able to forgive your wife in part because you know you have not lived a perfect life yourself. You have a base of humility to work from.


I agree but I think it goes even further than that. I think forgiveness is just a little bit easier when the betrayer is remorseful and attempts to atone for their destructive actions. Infidelity certainly is a debt that can never be repaid but it goes a long way when the wayward makes a concerted effort. When the cheater works toward atonement and creates an atmosphere of safety it can salvage that last bit of love left in the shattered heart of the one betrayed.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bfree said:


> I agree but I think it goes even further than that. I think forgiveness is just a little bit easier when the betrayer is remorseful and attempts to atone for their destructive actions. Infidelity certainly is a debt that can never be repaid but it goes a long way when the wayward makes a concerted effort. When the cheater works toward atonement and creates an atmosphere of safety it can salvage that last bit of love left in the shattered heart of the one betrayed.


It must be very painful to be a betrayed spouse who feels they did not have any influence over what happened. I can see how someone who feels that way would want and need the kind of care you are describing.

From what I have read, some betrayeds feel as you describe above. Others feel they had a big influence on what their wayward spouse did. The latter seem to reach out to the wayward first, to try to help them heal, and to feel safe again in the marriage. 

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

bfree said:


> I agree but I think it goes even further than that. I think forgiveness is just a little bit easier when the betrayer is remorseful and attempts to atone for their destructive actions. Infidelity certainly is a debt that can never be repaid but it goes a long way when the wayward makes a concerted effort. When the cheater works toward atonement and creates an atmosphere of safety it can salvage that last bit of love left in the shattered heart of the one betrayed.


I agree. It also should be on the betrayer to atone. It shouldn't be up to the betrayed to accept the betrayal because they weren't perfect either. All of us ahve flaws, none deserve to be cheated on epriod. Just because I forget to take the garbage to the curb or hang out with my friends one day a month more than she wants me to doesn't mean that she gets a 'hall pass' to screw some random guy because I wasn't perfect.

I don't like marriages of checklists. The types of "well, you screwed up 4 times in the last month, I only screwed up twice, so I get to ahve a ONS". 

To me, such a thought is miserable.

I remember Drifting on's story. It was sad. Just because he wasn't a perfect guy doesn't mean he deserved any of this. However, his WW is atoning for the pain she caused him and while I am sure he's in the 'let's move forward but let's not forget" mentality, and I wish him the ebst in his reconciliation as it seems to be going well, there is absolutely no equating what his imperfections are to what she did".

So I agree with you Bfree completely


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

jld said:


> It must be very painful to be a betrayed spouse who feels they did not have any influence over what happened. I can see how someone who feels that way would want and need the kind of care you are describing.
> 
> From what I have read, some betrayeds feel as you describe above. Others feel they had a big influence on what their wayward spouse did. The latter seem to reach out to the wayward first, to try to help them heal, and to feel safe again in the marriage.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks, I guess.


I think in many cases the belief that they influenced the wayward's behavior comes from a need to control or fix. It's very disconcerting to realize that something so destructive can be done to you and you really had little to do with it. I think that is probably, in fact I know that's the reason I reacted so poorly after my ex W cheated on me. It really didn't have anything to do with me and I couldn't accept it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bfree said:


> I think in many cases the belief that they influenced the wayward's behavior comes from* a need to control or fix. *It's very disconcerting to realize that something so destructive can be done to you and you really had little to do with it. I think that is probably, in fact I know that's the reason I reacted so poorly after my ex W cheated on me. It really didn't have anything to do with me and I couldn't accept it.


I think this could be true in some cases. In others, there may be genuine compassion and a sense of responsibility. They know their partner's weaknesses, and that their own influence could have prevented it.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

jld said:


> I think this could be true in some cases. In others, there may be genuine compassion and a sense of responsibility. They know their partner's weaknesses, and that their own influence could have prevented it.


you should never have to prevent what shouldn't occur anyway(like cheating) And if the betrayed's partner's weakness is as such that he/she would resort to cheating rather than trying to fix the problem or if the problem is unfixable then to hold the high ethical and moral ground and simply leave and divorce, then I see no way that it is the responsibility of the betrayed. That is why many here, including myself, always say there is never any reason to cheat and that the cheating is not the betrayed's fault.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

jld said:


> I think this could be true in some cases. In others, there may be genuine compassion and a sense of responsibility. They know their partner's weaknesses, *and that their own influence could have prevented it*.


NOooooo.
None of us have the power to control who someone else sleeps with. It is always the other person's choice. I don't think there's a person here who has ever thrown a fragile spouse out the front door with instructions to go screw the milk man.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> NOooooo.
> None of us have the power to control who someone else sleeps with. It is always the other person's choice. I don't think there's a person here who has ever thrown a fragile spouse out the front door with instructions to go screw the milk man.


I agree Pluto. And even if we could control it, then we would be labeled as a control freak and 'abusive' by the wayward spouse anyway and they would find that as an excuse to cheat or leave. I.e. a no win situation. Some people like to talk about self responsibility but why does self responsibility always stop short of cheating with some people ? It's hypocrisy at it's best.

Your point Pluto is spot on.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

If you do not feel that you had the influence to have prevented it, I can believe that is true for you.

If some people do feel that they had the influence to have prevented it, I can believe that is true for them.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

jld said:


> Drifting on, your posts have always seemed very sincere to me. I think you were able to forgive your wife in part because you know you have not lived a perfect life yourself. You have a base of humility to work from.



I'll let you take your pick, but both my mom and wife would tell you I'm not perfect, in fact they would both say I'm miles from perfect!!!!😇 Seriously, thank you for the kind words and insight, I have been humbled many times in my life and I imagine I will be many more too. Of course those chances rise if I continue to post here!!😂
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bfree said:


> I agree but I think it goes even further than that. I think forgiveness is just a little bit easier when the betrayer is remorseful and attempts to atone for their destructive actions. Infidelity certainly is a debt that can never be repaid but it goes a long way when the wayward makes a concerted effort. When the cheater works toward atonement and creates an atmosphere of safety it can salvage that last bit of love left in the shattered heart of the one betrayed.




bfree, these are very wise words, it does help that my wife has done everything right, but because I don't feel this can ever be repaid I have to check my emotions at the door to see clearly what I'm accepting. Some of it is so difficult to accept that I want to throw in the towel, but I can't, too much is at stake to simply walk away. On the other hand if I can't accept what I need to and be happy the j need to reevaluate my situation. So far I'm accepting everything, sometimes very begrudgingly, but I'm moving forward and as happy as I can be considering what I'm going through. I don't know if this makes sense, I've been up all night with the twins who both have 103 degree fevers. Maybe my fever is 106!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

jld said:


> It must be very painful to be a betrayed spouse who feels they did not have any influence over what happened. I can see how someone who feels that way would want and need the kind of care you are describing.
> 
> From what I have read, some betrayeds feel as you describe above. Others feel they had a big influence on what their wayward spouse did. The latter seem to reach out to the wayward first, to try to help them heal, and to feel safe again in the marriage.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks, I guess.




My opinion is this, and this is if you have kids. Regardless if you reconcile or divorce, I feel I should help the WS as they are a patent to my children. I think most parents want the best for their child, and if the WS is willing to work on themselves then I as the BS should help them be the best they can be. That is for my children, they should be given the best their parents can be. I hope this came out right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

drifting on said:


> My opinion is this, and this is if you have kids. Regardless if you reconcile or divorce, I feel I should help the WS as they are a patent to my children. I think most parents want the best for their child, and if the WS is willing to work on themselves then I as the BS should help them be the best they can be. That is for my children, they should be given the best their parents can be. I hope this came out right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A prudent approach, drifting on.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

jld said:


> A prudent approach, drifting on.



Regardless of how my situation turns out, my twins are very important. They have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the situation of the marriage. This my wife and I agree on whole heartedly. They are innocent and any collateral damage caused to them will be handled by my wife and I. One of the first rules we put in place for reconciliation is when dealing with the kids it is done in a peaceful and productive manner. Kids are innocent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Regardless of how my situation turns out, my twins are very important. They have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the situation of the marriage. This my wife and I agree on whole heartedly. They are innocent and any collateral damage caused to them will be handled by my wife and I. One of the first rules we put in place for reconciliation is when dealing with the kids it is done in a peaceful and productive manner. Kids are innocent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am sure that is hard. Kids intuit an awful lot about their parents' relationship.


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## kellykell (Nov 24, 2015)

I've been a long time lurker and had never posted but this thread strikes in the heart

So for short
1. Been married for 8 years
2. Has one child, born with condition that requires surgeries over the years and full time care
3. Husband suggested me to quit my high paying job, i agreed
4. 2 years after i quit, he was cheating with a female lawyer with a kid. Spent his afterwork time and dined, played videogame with them and left us alone
5. Said that it was because i turned into boring gossiper wives who does nothing but shops, goes to salon, etc. Lies!
6. Kicked him out
7. Husband kept asking for forgiveness but what's done is done and i am done with him.
8. Decided to divorce but little one's condition was not great, started to notice the changes
9. Took him back but we slept in separate bedroom on my request
10. He's been trying to mend his action but i guess he's too deaf to listen to my word when i repeatedly said that we're done
11. I met someone (he's single)

Do i feel guilty ? No, i'm done with him. I've never promised him anything since he moved back in and has been courteous but not warm to him, so forget about any physical touch. I've never told him about how my day went or any kind of small talk. This is just an arrangement to ease my little one's mind, been through a lot and it's not fair that the father's mistake has to be paid by the child.

I don't want to tell him because i don't want him to leave just yet, and honestly, based on a lot of stories i've read, many former WS decided to leave right away after they got cheated on, bunch of hypocrites. 

I'm not doing this for revenge, i don't care about him in romantic way anymore. He's the father, that's it. It's not for hurting him or shaming him but i'm doing it for me, because i need someone else to lean on and someone who listens.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

kellykell said:


> I've been a long time lurker and had never posted but this thread strikes in the heart
> 
> So for short
> 1. Been married for 8 years
> ...




We all live the way we decide too, you have chosen to have sex with another while technically married. The reasons people cheat are mostly not valid. In your case you have decided to cheat after being cheated on. You don't want your soon to be ex husband to leave as the affect to your child was negative. My problem with this is your child is witnessing his parents together. Your child is seeing this after you have already separated. When you do tell your husband that the time is now right for you leave your child will be harmed more. On top of that your child will see you with another man and be that much more destraught. 

I'm not so sure if what you are doing is in the best interest of the child. Depending upon the age of your child there are therapists who can help your child cope with parents who are divorcing. I'm assuming from your post above that the issues are physical and not mental as your child has had corrective surgeries. Your post has limited information for anyone to intelligently comment about your situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

kellykell said:


> I've been a long time lurker and had never posted but this thread strikes in the heart
> 
> So for short
> 1. Been married for 8 years
> ...


You took him back and yet met someone else.

Don't play games. 

Tell him. If he agrees to stay knowing that you are no longer "together" but he wants to be there for you and the kid, so be it.

But don't be a hypocrite.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

jld said:


> If you do not feel that you had the influence to have prevented it, I can believe that is true for you.
> 
> If some people do feel that they had the influence to have prevented it, I can believe that is true for them.


I feel that everyone in their marriage should be safe and shielded from their spouse having an affair because both sides went into the marriage feeling it was morally wrong. In other words, noone needs to have the influence to prevent a spouses affair because the spouse has no right or entitlement to the affair and shouldn't have had it anyway.

I do feel that both sides need to work on a marriage to maintain a healthy marriage but noone should have to be 'perfect' in order to prevent an affair.

Not unless someone is a complete cuckold who spends every moment day and night doing 1000% for their spouse and then they would be seen as weak and co-dependent and wouldget cheated on anyway.

So my point is 

1) No justification for any cheating
2) Cheating is a disease and should not be thrown at the feet of a betrayed spouse nor should the betrayed spouse ever be blamed for it
3) the cheater has every responsibility to do the heavy lifting and do the work necessary NOT TO CHEAT !! If they start having those feelings, they need counseling. they don't need to cheat and then say "You were imperfect" and blameshift the other spouse.

IMO you are pinning the responsibility on the wrong party, JLD


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## kellykell (Nov 24, 2015)

drifting on said:


> Depending upon the age of your child there are therapists who can help your child cope with parents who are divorcing. I'm assuming from your post above that the issues are physical and not mental as your child has had corrective surgeries. Your post has limited information for anyone to intelligently comment about your situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's physical and thankfully curable though it requires a lot of procedures. He's a bright child which was why he noticed that his father had left



drifting on said:


> Your child is seeing this after you have already separated. When you do tell your husband that the time is now right for you leave your child will be harmed more. On top of that your child will see you with another man and be that much more destraught.


Technically he already left us when he was busy entertaining other child when his own was alone. Typically he came back when it's almost 9, past the bedtime and left early for work so he couldn't see him for days. 
I know that divorce would affect our child but if he leave now when our child's condition is still fragile it'd do more damage to him. He will leave, it's all about the timing. I've told him again and again that i've made up my mind but he doesn't buy that and believes that time will heal. 

I'm not bitter anymore but i don't love and have any shred of affection toward him in any way now. What kind of father would make a mixed cds for his mistress's kid while he doesn't even have time for his own kid ? A loser, that's what i see him as now. The jewelry or 'just because' present that he's been giving me do not work. He was actually angry when he got caught and blameshift to me right away, his words during that dday conversation has etched on my mind, at one point he said that stepford wives (meaning me) are the same as leeches and useless. That and the affair were the thank you i got for taking care of our child and gave up my job.

It's not possible for me to feel something that i don't feel, it'd just make me miserable


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

jld said:


> If you do not feel that you had the influence to have prevented it, I can believe that is true for you.
> 
> If some people do feel that they had the influence to have prevented it, I can believe that is true for them.


See this is where I default back to the marriage vows which include the words forsaking all others. Whether your needs are met or not, whether your spouse is a prince/princess or not, whether your marriage is heavenly or a ride in hell, you took vows. To me vows mean something. I'd like to think I have honor.

I can be the worst husband in the world. I can abuse my wife. I can neglect my wife. I can bring her right to the edge of the cliff. If I were to do that I would be contributing to her being in that position. With my actions I brought my wife to the precipice. But she is going to make the choice whether to jump into the pit or turn away and seek the more honorable solution. In many (most) cases the honorable solution is divorce. Painful but better than discarding your honor and choosing to break your vows.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Fine, don't feel anything for the guy.
But why stoop to his level of immorality. You can come here and tell strangers how the marriage is over, except for the child. It changes nothing. You are doing exactly what your H did to you. So you are now giving your child two parents he cannot respect. Great role models.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bfree said:


> See this is where I default back to the marriage vows which include the words forsaking all others. Whether your needs are met or not, whether your spouse is a prince/princess or not, whether your marriage is heavenly or a ride in hell, you took vows. To me vows mean something. I'd like to think I have honor.
> 
> I can be the worst husband in the world. I can abuse my wife. I can neglect my wife. I can bring her right to the edge of the cliff. If I were to do that I would be contributing to her being in that position. With my actions I brought my wife to the precipice. But she is going to make the choice whether to jump into the pit or turn away and seek the more honorable solution. In many (most) cases the honorable solution is divorce. Painful but better than discarding your honor and choosing to break your vows.


Dug says different people have different capabilities. 

Maybe vulnerabilities is a better word here. Some people are not vulnerable to cheating at all, like some are not vulnerable to porn or alcohol or chocolate.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

kellykell said:


> It's physical and thankfully curable though it requires a lot of procedures. He's a bright child which was why he noticed that his father had left
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kelly, I do not envy you your predicament. Although I'd like to think I could come up with a better solution, faced with the health, welfare and safety of a child I have a hard time condemning you for your choices. You say that you are concerned that if your husband knew of your dalliances he would most likely leave. Given what you've said about his past actions I cannot disagree with your thought process. I'd hope he would put your child's welfare first but he didn't do that when he first left. It might have been better not to have allowed him to move back. I can only pray that things work out for the best for all of you.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

kellykell said:


> It's physical and thankfully curable though it requires a lot of procedures. He's a bright child which was why he noticed that his father had left
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm happy that surgery can correct the issues for your child. However numerous surgeries can be very taxing in it own right. I wish your child be blessed and lead a pain free life.

As for your husband of STBEH, he does not appear to care for his family. That is sad, and there may come a time he realize how terrible his actions have been. But blaming you for his affair I don't hold out much hope this will happen. 

As for what you are doing, I don't agree but we can agree to disagree, it's just my opinion. I don't approve of infidelity, I don't think that there is ever really justification for cheating. I would rather you stay true to who you are, your beliefs, morals, and values.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

jld said:


> Dug says different people have different capabilities.
> 
> Maybe vulnerabilities is a better word here. Some people are not vulnerable to cheating at all, like some are not vulnerable to porn or alcohol or chocolate.


Yes we all have vulnerabilities but divorce is always an option isn't it? I am an alcoholic. I know I have that weakness. I also abused drugs. I got clean before I met my wife. If I start drinking again is it my wife's fault? If I do a line or two is it because my wife wasn't attentive enough? No. Guess who is responsible for drug and alcohol abuse? The one who abuses those substances.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

bfree said:


> See this is where I default back to the marriage vows which include the words forsaking all others. Whether your needs are met or not, whether your spouse is a prince/princess or not, whether your marriage is heavenly or a ride in hell, you took vows. To me vows mean something. I'd like to think I have honor.
> 
> I can be the worst husband in the world. I can abuse my wife. I can neglect my wife. I can bring her right to the edge of the cliff. If I were to do that I would be contributing to her being in that position. With my actions I brought my wife to the precipice. But she is going to make the choice whether to jump into the pit or turn away and seek the more honorable solution. In many (most) cases the honorable solution is divorce. Painful but better than discarding your honor and choosing to break your vows.




THIS !!!!! I agree with THIS completely. And Drifting on seems like a good enough guy to me so he didn't deserve it if he was evil and he doesn't deserve it as a good guy either. Again, WW had no excuse. Glad he's determining his own fate after thinking it through. I wouldn't have been able to do that. I'm glad he's happy but has to remain strong and vigilant


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

drifting on said:


> I'm happy that surgery can correct the issues for your child. However numerous surgeries can be very taxing in it own right. I wish your child be blessed and lead a pain free life.
> 
> As for your husband of STBEH, he does not appear to care for his family. That is sad, and there may come a time he realize how terrible his actions have been. But blaming you for his affair I don't hold out much hope this will happen.
> 
> ...


agreed, especially witht he last paragraph


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

kellykell said:


> It's physical and thankfully curable though it requires a lot of procedures. He's a bright child which was why he noticed that his father had left
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what he did to you is completely disgusting and worthy of divorce.

Again, like Drifting On said though, infidelity is infidelity including what you are doing.

I would never blame you for divorcing him and get out of the situation. I know people who have been in your situation. It created dysfunction for their kids. It caused both of them further pain.

Let me ask you this. Does he live there thinking that you two are in a monogamous relationship and is trying to work on things or is he still being the scum that he was when he did what he did ?

I know you emphasized that you are going out with a single guy. The single guy is going out with a married woman who has a kid and lives with her husband. Food for thought.

Sorry you got screwed over. I disagree with your handling of the aftermath


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

wmn1 said:


> THIS !!!!! I agree with THIS completely. And Drifting on seems like a good enough guy to me so he didn't deserve it if he was evil and he doesn't deserve it as a good guy either. Again, WW had no excuse. Glad he's determining his own fate after thinking it through. I wouldn't have been able to do that. I'm glad he's happy but has to remain strong and vigilant




I will admit some days I don't feel strong enough to get through, then I remember this is my life, I need to find my way through or I need to end this. I am finding my way through, I see what I need to do and what my wife needs to do, but not one day has been easy. I move forward slowly, examining everything before me and to ensure all is talked through. This recovery is on my time, nobody else's.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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