# seriously contemplating a deliberate sexless marriage



## steve mck (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi, here's the sitch: 

ME: 42 year old male, high sex drive, currently studying plus raising kids plus working part time.

WIFE: 42, much lower sex drive, lovely, working full time, likes her job.

US: committed, love our family, generally happy in each other's company, but fight a lot about sex. 

SEX: supposedly about twice a week but in reality about 2-3 times a month because there are always exceptions. Variable quality when it does happen.

FIGHTS: Torture. 

The other night, after years of this and many failed solutions, I raised the serious possibility that we simply stop having sex.

She agreed to try this. 

We aren't talking about some short term thing, to stoke the fire back up so we can have better sex. We have tried that before. This could go on for quite a long time. Maybe if it works we will stay this way. 

It's weird because I love sex and so does she, but it causes so many problems. I simply cannot stand the difference in desire any more, its too painful. I think I would actually rather have no sex, that a small amount of quite good sex that is about a fifth of what I actually want, and just makes me cry with frustration.

For me, this is potentially a decision about self control and self respect and not always wanting something I cannot have. Hopefully it will also be liberating and lead to me putting more energy into other things. 

*Has anyone else tried this? Did it work and did the fighting stop? Did anything else work better? Did it cause problems?*

BTW - please don't be telling me that I need to adjust my attitudes and expectations and libido here. I have tried and tried and I can't, and it does not seem right that I should be expected to do that, anyway. For the sake of my self respect I have decided that it is perfectly normal to have a high sex drive, and it just happens to be incompatible with that of the woman I married. And I am tired of having to constantly manage myself around her libido, it is doing my head in. 

Any thoughts? Bear in mind that this only came up the other night. I have suggested it a few times before and we have not decided to try it. But the other night was so bad we figure we might as well try it because we are really hating those fights.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

What has she done to try to appease you? I'm seeing that you have been trying to work around her... but nothing about her trying to make a compromise.... have you two seen a sex therapist?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Good luck.

Since you will have more time on your hands you may want to make sure both of you are not having sex with anyone else. Just sayin.


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## steve mck (Aug 20, 2012)

Compromise is a tricky issue. A lot of the fights are about it. 

I want sex that is about both of us, and leaves her satisfied as well as me. I could tolerate a certain amount of sex which was just for my benefit but after that, I want it to be mutual. I want her to be horny for me. 

And she says she just doesn't get that horny. 

Sometimes I feel like she could if she tried. But she refuses to do that. And I am tired of trying to figure out solutions where I manage my own desire. 

She has compromised in some ways (tried things, wore sexy clothes, done things I asked) but in terms of actually deciding to devote more energy to sex, she either won't, or simply can't.


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## steve mck (Aug 20, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Good luck.
> 
> Since you will have more time on your hands you may want to make sure both of you are not having sex with anyone else. Just sayin.


Noted. We have already talked about this. I think we are both strong enough. Certainly if it got that tempting we would talk about it before anything happened.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

steve mck said:


> Noted. We have already talked about this. I think we are both strong enough. Certainly if it got that tempting we would talk about it before anything happened.


Sometimes affairs are planned, sometimes they start spur of the moment. You are playing with fire imo.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Steve,

So basically, you've come all the way down to meet her needs (or lack there of) and she's done nothing. She now has everything she wants, a home, a father for her children and a pal to hang out with. 

You and your wife need professional help pronto! If she won't go, tell her that you need to talk about dissolving the marriage fairly and moving on with your lives. 

Simply sentencing yourself to the life of a monk is not an answer. You're too young to do this to yourself


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Well at least you're discussing it. In my case I was handed a law from on-high. No, not, never! 

In many ways it's liberating because with the death of hope there's nothing to worry about, nothing to wonder how this or that might lead to something, no doubts. And since I'm not worried anymore she might try to withhold sex and use it as a weapon, I am free to say whatever I live.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

It's a dumb move, you've screwed up badly.

Women are not sexually attracted to men like you.

You allowed her to create a living arrangement where you provide many things and she provides nothing. That is not a marriage. That is a woman walking all over you.

Your exact actoins and reactions are what cause her to have this low libido.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I'd be more concerned that my wife doesn't really give two craps about my sexaul needs whatsoever.

All your wife has done is break you down so low that you're finally willing to give her what she's wanted all along; a sexless marriage. The moment you proposed a totally sexless marriage, and she actually agreed, knowing full well that you have high needs, is the moment you should have realized that she won this war, and you became the sucker who not only fell for her trap, but helped her actually set it up.

This isn't compromise, and it won't lead to any long term peace. What is it is a prime road toward quiet resentment, possible affairs, and likely divorce.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

My sitch it somewhat similar, and I tried the no s*x thing. We're mid-40's...I'm HD and my wife is zero drive. We did the argue thing for years, and that only made things worse. In the past, when you guys took "breaks" did you walk around pouting like a little bish? Maybe mix in some passive aggressive crap as well? I did, and that didn't help my case.

If you go forward with the no s*x thing, do this. Be happy/confident around her, even if you have to fake it at times. Hit the gym, pick up some new hobbies, etc. How is your s*x rank? Work on that. Do these things, and in a month or so, your W may be left wondering what's going on in your head. She may also discover that yes, you can survive and be happy without getting that magic VJ from her. Right now, she knows she owns your azz in this area of the marriage. You need to nuke that way of thinking...hers and yours.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It's not about 'owning' someone. It's about I don't care. If she went out to the store today and never came back it would be inconvenient working through all the paper work for several months but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I could finally start throwing out some of this clutter.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Sometimes affairs are planned, sometimes they start spur of the moment. You are playing with fire imo.


:iagree:








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Sorry but your plan is a disaster waiting to unfold in full technicolor, crash and burn glory. None of these needs or feelings go away, they are just not satisfied. You will be bitter and resentful and make no mistake, you are building a wall between you. That bitterness will keep you from being as supportive of her as she has come to expect and the downward spiral to crash and burn.

Also, your wife is not asexual, she is just not sexually attracted TO YOU. Read that again if it pisses you off. Sometimes the most profound growth in life comes in places we dared not look until we needed to.

I speak from experience here. I went through 6 months of complete abstinence. I think my wife barely noticed. The only thing it truly accomplished was it diminished the currency value of her V to nothing. That was good. I don't beg, I don't grovel. I don't need her V and that is worth knowing.

If you want to stop approaching her and take a hiatus that is not a bad strategy...BUT...read the MMSL, run the MAP, learn to be a sexually attractive man, refine your alpha/beta attributes, establish new habits and hobbies, stay busy and live with energy and vitality, hang with your posse of guys, get ripped at the gym...and don't discuss it with her, keep a sense of mystery.

Once you accept the sexless marriage, she has taken your dreams away. She does not have that right. Be willing to put it all on the table. Be willing to risk it all. Then you will gain a willing partner and it can turn.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

IMO, it's a bad idea. Sex is what holds a relationship together, and once gone other things will go, too. 

I would consider MC and/or a sex therapist. 2-3 times a month? No wonder you're not happy, OP.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> It's not about 'owning' someone. It's about I don't care. If she went out to the store today and never came back it would be inconvenient working through all the paper work for several months but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I could finally start throwing out some of this clutter.


  Wow RLD, sometimes you say the most outrageous things :rofl:


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> And since I'm not worried anymore she might try to withhold sex and use it as a weapon, I am free to say whatever I live.


Yep, your wife failed at the using sex as a weapon class. It only works if she gives it up a little.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> You allowed her to create a living arrangement where you provide many things and she provides nothing.


I guess Im a bit confused ..where in the OP did you get the impression she provides "nothing"?

Sounds like she works (full time) Im assuming the money she earns form her labor goes into the household to help support the 3 of them their "comfortable lifestyle"..

She has a father to help raise her child?Well he has a MOTHER to help raise his child as well...

And if having sex 3 times a month with him is also "nothing" and thats what its considered..talk about rejection ..Sure he wants "more" but if "less" is equivelant to nothing i can see how it would be better to make that litteral..LITTERALLY nothing and besdies that it sounds like HIS sugestion ..

Because thats the other issue even if she was willing to "provide more" it always biols down to this ..he "knows' its her trying to "give him more" ..as most he doesnt WANT to have sex with someone with the knowledge its not something she is needing or wanting for herself at the time that is 'for him"..So its still "nothing".

So her side of it..she just isnt "as horny as often as him "..So she can work full tme help pay the bills..be active in raising THEIR child together be willing to have sex more than SHE WANTS and it will still not be good enough and totalled out as "nothing" just because she isnt as horny as often as he is..

I guess then the fights would turn into how awful she is that she doesnt "want" sex as often as he does and how horribble she is she hasnt made that magically change somehow..Proof she does "nothing" for him and he does many many things for her..

Dallas


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> She now has everything she wants, a home, a father for her children and a pal to hang out with.


So this OP is saying he doesnt want a home?A mother for his children and a companion to do things with?(besides sexual) Which she also does(sex) with him just 'not enough"?

I dont get it why is a woman having the father of YOUR children actively raisign YOUR children with you a gift to the woman?But the man having the mother actively raising your children with you not a gift to the man?

Same with a home?(Im assuming you mean roof over head)?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> So this OP is saying he doesnt want a home?A mother for his children and a companion to do things with?(besides sexual) Which she also does(sex) with him just 'not enough"?
> 
> I dont get it why is a woman having the father of YOUR children actively raisign YOUR children with you a gift to the woman?But the man having the mother actively raising your children with you not a gift to the man?
> 
> Same with a home?(Im assuming you mean roof over head)?


That is not a wife. That is a nanny. But you are right in challenging the nothing.

It is a gift but it cuts out the #1 emotional need of the man. Actually the top two.

1) Sexual fullfillment

2) Respect / Admiration

What would people say if the husband were to not meet the wifes top two needs? He would be considered a very bad husband. Some would think it fine for her to seek those needs elsehwere.

But anyway, the real insult to injury will be when indeed she starts to seek out attention from other men if she is not already doing so. So when she does he is going to go ballistic. They both are now more vulnerable to an affair. Not smart.

The good point though is that she does have sex on occasion. By not having this bond any more and people do bond with sex. They drift further apart. They really are no longer married as husband and wife any more. 

For me my wife is :

1) My exclusive lover

2) My best female friend

3) Wife

My children are grown. Yes she is still the mother but it is not the same as having small children.

Woman who turn into exclusive mothers are no longer truly wives without also being lovers. It is old school in some cultures for the wife to be religated to breeder / nurturer and the man to have a mistress. Women do this too of course. They take a lover and the man is the father of her children. The thought of this makes me ill quite frankly. Folks can deny this but if you read this forum and keep the above in mind it happens all the time with Marriage 2.0.

So if I had a great looking car that was only missing it's engine or that we could never start the engine. Do I really have a car? Do I find another engine to meet my needs? I can cuddle up in the seats and play the sound system. I can sleep in it and stay out of the rain. Awesome. It is just worthless as a car. So I just need to live with not going any where or I have to walk or use public transportation. So in his case he can masturbate or visit a pro. The latter is cheating so think that is wrong. So walks. Lets just hope she does not have her engine serviced elsewhere.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> That is not a wife. That is a nanny.


The point was HIS contribution to helping rear the child was attributed to his HUSBANDRY(soemthing hes providing his WFIE)..Why is she beign given a "husband gift" for helping raise thier OWN child but when she is doign the same thing its "not a wife providing a husband its a nanny" Why is his contribtution not him beign a 'nanny" ?

What Im saying is its a double standard..His being involved in raising their child goes on his "list" of what he does for his WIFE..her being involved in raising thier child isnt for him its for the child..

All Im saying is PICK one but make it even..Or attribute it as an equal blessing to have each other to know each love and care for the child and its as well obvioulsy the benefit to the child..

His helping rear his own child was part of the "many things" supposedly his WIFE wants from him that she "gets"..Why not vice versa?Does he not want a mother for his child?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Woman who turn into exclusive mothers are no longer truly wives without also being lovers.


The OP never said she was "exclusivley a mother' ..She also works to provide income and yes its "not enough " but she according to him does have sex sounds like roughly 30 times a year with him and she is there for the child ...thats all called "nothing"..shes providing..

Then by the same token NIETHER is he ..hes "providing ' nothing to her when he helps pay the bills /helps rear the child..or keeps her company in a non sexual way ..its all NOTHING..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Some would think it fine for her to seek those needs elsehwere.


Some would think to go out on a murder spree..Your point is?


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I think this is a bad idea. I think if you choose to stop having sex your resentment will grow and it will manifest itself in your relationship with your wife.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> The point was HIS contribution to helping rear the child was attributed to his HUSBANDRY(soemthing hes providing his WFIE)..Why is she beign given a "husband gift" for helping raise thier OWN child but when she is doign the same thing its "not a wife providing a husband its a nanny" Why is his contribtution not him beign a 'nanny" ?
> 
> What Im saying is its a double standard..His being involved in raising their child goes on his "list" of what he does for his WIFE..her being involved in raising thier child isnt for him its for the child..
> 
> ...


He probably does want a mother for his child. I think he also wanted a wife. But he has given up on that it seems.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Some would think to go out on a murder spree..Your point is?


You really do not see the point?

That not meeting the sexual needs of your pertner is not just cruel but a very bad idea. Spouses will likely start geting their needs met one way or another.

Sorry. No sex = no marriage. YMMV. he no longer has a marriage.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> But anyway, the real insult to injury will be when indeed she starts to seek out attention from other men if she is not already doing so. So when she does he is going to go ballistic. They both are now more vulnerable to an affair. Not smart.


Im not even suggesting they go completley sexless..HE IS..becaseu 3 times a month "isnt enouhg " and if she kicks it up a notch FOR HIM he will resent its FOR him and not her own desires for the intimacy herslef..

Either way SHE is screwed..

OP you are really what sounds like wanting to stop the traumatic sounds like fighting over it..Why not try to find a way to communicate that isnt this "torturous" arguing?Maybe thats what you shoud work on finding a way to communicate without it turning int a horrible fight?

In the meantime please dont take your wifes opening up to you sexually "only " 3 times a month as nothing ..I gaurantee you or at least I know me EVERTIME I have sex with my husband its "something to me' if I thought it was "nothing to him " even if he wants it more often I would feel compleltey defeated and like my love was just beign tossed in the trash like a peice of garbage and branded "not good enough"..And serioulsy I would just go in a shell to protect myslef from exposign my vulnerablility and showing my sexaul love and desire fome beign branded not worth anything to the extent its "nothing"..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Also OP...stopping sex completely wont help with her libido..everyone has a "limit" as to how often they can enjoy but I know 'no sex" isnt good for the female libido..Stopping it all together could make her go "numb' from the waste down for LONG (not a couple weeks ) periods of time..


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## bluelaser (May 26, 2012)

This could end up really badly. Here's how -
You decide to become celebate (not easy to practice)
To prevent any sexual desire you stop touching/kissing your DW
Without affection DW feels undesired/unwanted
She meets someone at work who will "listen" to her & then is more than happy to jump into bed with him
She blames you for the EA/PA because you didn't meet her needs
You guy separate with a lot of heartbreak (well for you anyway)

You see where I'm going with this? You are playing with fire here. I agree with the others. Your main concern should be her refusing to acknowledge your needs 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Also OP...stopping sex completely wont help with her libido..everyone has a "limit" as to how often they can enjoy but I know 'no sex" isnt good for the female libido..Stopping it all together could make her go "numb' from the waste down for LONG (not a couple weeks ) periods of time..


This will happen to both of them. When it comes to sex the old adage 'use it or lose it' could not be more true.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> You really do not see the point?


NO YOU really dont see the point I see the "point " loud and clear and she AS WELL AS he is in a position that there is no easy answer..

But I will tell you REDUCING a human being who does many things including having sex with you (just not enough ) to providign NOTHING is demeaning and degrading ...Especially if she will continue to be demeaned and degragded as "nothing" simply becasue she doesnt get HORNY AS often but does it "for him "..She is being "devalued" to a "nothing" because she is not as HORNY as him ..Do you not see that?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

lol, how can some people read/listen to an entire conversation and then pick out ONE word and focus on that one word like a laser beam. Ignoring EVERYTHING ELSE that was said. 

No way I would agree to going sexless! Get some counseling or an attorney!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

steve mck said:


> Compromise is a tricky issue. A lot of the fights are about it.
> 
> I want sex that is about both of us, and leaves her satisfied as well as me. I could tolerate a certain amount of sex which was just for my benefit but after that, I want it to be mutual.


I didn't know there was such a thing.LOL

IDK but some times alittle ductape and rope my help. Just saying, it might make her horny for you when she sees you take her. Sometime a little dominace can be attractive.

I guess my real point here is it maybe time for a new approach, cuz I know one thing, and that is sex is the clue to a marriage.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

the guy said:


> I didn't know there was such a thing.LOL
> 
> IDK but some times alittle ductape and rope my help. Just saying, it might make her horny for you when she sees you take her. Sometime a little dominace can be attractive.
> 
> I guess my real point here is it maybe time for a new approach, cuz I know one thing, and that is sex is the clue to a marriage.


:iagreeon't ask for it, demand it.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> lol, how can some people read/listen to an entire conversation and then pick out ONE word and focus on that one word like a laser beam. Ignoring EVERYTHING ELSE that was said.
> 
> No way I would agree to going sexless! Get some counseling or an attorney!


If you are speakign about me I didnt "ingore everytign else' ..LOL!! how can someone take many post and in those post the a degradign and serious accusation(beign nothing) about a woman is a concern and ignore everything else they have said besides addressing the serioulsness of calling someone "nothing "(or providign nothing) and accuse them of focusign on "one word"?

Adn by the way it wasnt 'one word" that one word opened up the door for a HUGE and sexist double standard..He helps raise THEIR child hes a "good husband to her" she helps raise THEIR child its nothing but a nanny...

Your blind if you cant see it..


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> If you are speakign about me I didnt "ingore everytign else' ..LOL!! how can someone take many post and in those post the a degradign and serious accusation(beign nothing) about a woman is a concern and ignore everything else they have said besides addressing the serioulsness of calling someone "nothing "(or providign nothing) and accuse them of focusign on "one word"?
> 
> Adn by the way it wasnt 'one word" that one word opened up the door for a HUGE and sexist double standard..He helps raise THEIR child hes a "good husband to her" she helps raise THEIR child its nothing but a nanny...
> 
> Your blind if you cant see it..


LOL, sounds like this thread may be hitting a nerve for some....

Not one word? How many times to you write "nothing" in this thread. Yea, id say your focusing on that one word.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

the guy said:


> I didn't know there was such a thing.LOL
> 
> IDK but some times alittle ductape and rope my help. Just saying, it might make her horny for you when she sees you take her. Sometime a little dominace can be attractive.
> 
> I guess my real point here is it maybe time for a new approach, cuz I know one thing, and that is sex is the clue to a marriage.


It can also land you in prison for sexual assault..Just saying I woudl be careful with that..

But yeah "new approach" I agree with ..As in try to find a way to communicate without what he describes as fights that torture both of them..but without cutting all sex off as well..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> LOL, sounds like this thread may be hitting a nerve for some....
> 
> Not one word? How many times to you write "nothing" in this thread. Yea, id say your focusing on that one word.


Nothing and in COMPARISON to him ..thats not "one word" thats a MIND frame..


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

steve mck said:


> Hi, here's the sitch:
> 
> ME: 42 year old male, high sex drive, currently studying plus raising kids plus working part time.
> 
> ...


You can stop the fighting about sex w/o stopping sex.

Separate your issues.

You know by now she is LD - probably will not change. No wonder she agreed to a sexless marriage - she is also sick of all of the fighting about it. You also said she loves sex.

Create situations where she wants to have sex with you - be creative. Don't give up.

If you were having a problem with one of your children, you wouldn't give up.

I think being in a marriage where both people love sex & stop having it will eventually lead to affairs.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

oh boy:/


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> You also said she loves sex.


This IS something to build on ..a bright spot in the fog..

Cuttign sex off?..I wouldnt do that..

This sounds "weird" but with a woman who "loves sex" just has a lower libido I would encourage her to masturbate in between sex with you ..that can "boost" maybe not to YOUR level of need but it can help ...

Also if she is on hormonal BC she needs to get off it..This women wantign sex "2 t 3 times a month" I have observed is a "common " #...I suspect it many times tied to the BC pill..If not scratch that ..but it is a hormonal rise and fall..Im convicned ..too many women I've run across are horny as cats in heat a few days out of the month..then a drop for a couple weeks to .."bleh"..


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Also OP...stopping sex completely wont help with her libido..everyone has a "limit" as to how often they can enjoy but I know 'no sex" isnt good for the female libido..Stopping it all together could make her go "numb' from the waste down for LONG (not a couple weeks ) periods of time..


Agreed. He is being foolish.

In general having sex will typically lead to her wanting more sex ... to a point. No sex may cause her to completely shut down.

I totally agree with this post.

It is flat unhealthy for him to do this. He is basically saying if my sexual needs are not met I am going to ensure yours are not either.

This is an old topic. One would hope they could come the a better compromise. But it appears not. Very sad actually.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

IF a woman is not meeting her man's #1 emotional need, then she is seriously failing as a wife.

If she is spending all her energy working and mothering, instead of meeting her man's emotional needs, that makes her an even worse wife.

She is probably a great worker and a great mother, and those things are wonderful things to be, but wifing is not her forte as described by the OP.

We can't confuse "working hard at good and important things" to be the same thing as being a good spouse. To be a good spouse, you have to work hard on the things that are important emotionally to your spouse.

I did use the word "nothing" for dramatic purposes, but I can tell you a man denined sexual fulfillment does feel he is getting "nothing" or darn close to it....And wives should ignore this at their own peril.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> We can't confuse "working hard at good and important things" to be the same thing as being a good spouse.


But thats what HE was getting credit for as beign a good husband...How do you explain that?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> But thats what HE was getting credit for as beign a good husband...How do you explain that?


I am 100% sure he is not meeting her emotional needs, which is why I told him that his actions and reactions were the cause of his wife's supposed lack of libido.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> She is probably a great worker and a great mother, and those things are wonderful things to be, but wifing is not her forte as described by the OP.


HE was getting credit for being a great husband for those same things..except a dad not a mother and his contirbution to roof over head)..

SCRATCH PARENTING as beign wifely or husbandry SCRATCH providign financially as providign for wife or husband EQUALLY..before you say this..His contribution for those things COUNTED as him being a good husband..HER contribution for those SAME actvitities counted NOT..

IOW hes getting "credit" for beign a great husband to her ..for the very same things SHE does that is not crediting her for beign a great wife..Hers is "nothing "(sorry peopel it was called nothing)..Just becasue he wants to **** more than she does..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Hicks said:


> I am 100% sure he is not meeting her emotional needs, which is why I told him that his actions and reactions were the cause of his wife's supposed lack of libido.


I dont know..she could actually just have "low NORMAL" libido..and hes done nothign "wrong" she just isnt as horny..

Now if he is screaming and yelling at her in "anger WHY arent you horny then yeah ..thats......."not a good husband"..


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Surprised that nobody has mentioned anything about OP being a house husband (or pretty damned close to one) and how that typically affects a woman's desire for him.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Im going to lay it out kindergarten style to make my point..

Man meets woman woman meets man ..they fall in love..they both are attracted to eac other and want to work together to have a home (combine resources) they both want a child ..They pool ther income buy a house ..both work ..they have a child ..BOTH work and put their money wher etheir mouth is ..both actively and with dedication raise the child ..He wants sex um..every other day..she is not interested in sex every other day once a week at best...

Suddenly...HIS part of the providign for the JOINT bigger home that took 2 to get and upkeep...HIS contribution to raisign the child they both wanted is HIM "providign HER"..HIS part in the "house work" (even if she EQUALLY labors) is for her ..Thats ALL for HER..Her equal part in financial /rearing of the child /home upkeep ISNT for "him" its what "she wanted...

He works its for "her" ..she works its for her..he helps raise the child its for her..she helps raise the chidl its for her..

BECAUSE she likes hot sex 3 times a month and he wants sex on tap..Suddenly home and childrne is HER NEED (even thogh he wanted it too) HER income which PADS his comfort level is ????NOTHING...and well boils down to his sex drive..

Its about as silly as it can be..I would LOVE for these PEOPLE to look thier children in the face adn say "I didnt want you ..your mother did..I thought if I gave her what she wanted YOU ..I woudl get laid every day" ..

Of course they wouldnt say that..that woudl make them MONSTERS..Not to mention they NEVER propositioned the one they SAID they wanted home and children with that was the "deal" ..NO ONE woudl MARRY such a soul...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> HE was getting credit for being a great husband for those same things..except a dad not a mother and his contirbution to roof over head)..
> 
> SCRATCH PARENTING as beign wifely or husbandry SCRATCH providign financially as providign for wife or husband EQUALLY..before you say this..His contribution for those things COUNTED as him being a good husband..HER contribution for those SAME actvitities counted NOT..
> 
> IOW hes getting "credit" for beign a great husband to her ..for the very same things SHE does that is not crediting her for beign a great wife..Hers is "nothing "(sorry peopel it was called nothing)..Just becasue he wants to **** more than she does..


Can I ask you what you are reading where he is getting credit for these items? 

In response I will say that absolutely men and women have different emotional needs. Understanding this is crucial. A man could love sexual fulfillment and admiration, while a woman could cherish domestic support or being told she's pretty. So, the man who gives THE WRONG THING to his wife is making a big mistake, just as the woman who gives the wrong thing to her husband is making a mistake. All men and women are different, part of the marriage process is learning what is important to your partner.

I see tremendous red flags in what OP is bringing to the marriage in terms of what would make his wife sexually attracted to him.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Surprised that nobody has mentioned anything about OP being a house husband (or pretty damned close to one) and how that typically affects a woman's desire for him.



No HE gives her EVERYTHING..She gives him "nothing" 

Didnt you get the memo?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> So basically, you've come all the way down to meet her needs (or lack there of) and she's done nothing. She now has everything she wants, a home, a father for her children and a pal to hang out with.


ONE!!

(I'll get more)


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> You allowed her to create a living arrangement where you provide many things and she provides nothing. That is not a marriage. That is a woman walking all over you.


#2 (all advice in this thread)


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> All your wife has done is break you down so low that you're finally willing to give her what she's wanted all along; a sexless marriage.


What she wanted? The OP himself said she loved sex..SLAM!


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

Dallas you are absolutely SPOT ON :smthumbup:

He has convinced himself, and most of the other people on this thread that he does EVERYTHING for her, and all she does is take and take from him. 

He goes to work for her, watches their child for her, is a friend to her and doing all of that makes him an INCREDIBLE husband apparently

She goes to work for him, watches their child for him, is a friend to him and despite all of that she still a no good, sexless, prudish wench that wants him to be miserable and suffer the rest of his days.

Its psychotic thinking really

I wonder how much she feels he ACTUALLY does, or doesn't do enough of (as in work!)


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I would suggest counseling. Once you start fighting about sex it backs the LD spouse into a corner they can't get out of and neither one of you ever feels like you are good enough. 
I have been in your shoes or should I say I am in your shoes. We started MC a few months ago and though it's not a magic bullet I feel the change in our relationship. 
Also read "intimacy and desire". 
Who starts these fights? Is she mad that you want it so much? or do you start because she doesn't want it?
You are in a cycle that I don't think you can out of by yourselves. Honestly now that we have been in MC for awhile I can't believe how angry I get about the desire differences. I just see things in a different light and I feel like he does too. 
I do know anger is not an aphrodisiac.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I agree with myself and others.

The wife is pushing the husband into setting up a very female dominated marital arrangement. And she has succeeded.

Yes, this is not what she wants. It is a test of his manhood, which he is failing.

We could spend all day aruging this, but the problem in this marraige is very obvious to me. And by the way, the OP is the one who has to make adjustments to what he is doing.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

You should never discount the reality that there are many many people who want to be parents not spouses. Being a husband or a wife are merely means to an end to them. I think it's very common. My wife is like that, her mom is like that, all her daughters are like that. They don't wake up every day thinking how can I be the worst wife humanly possible - they simply don't think about that at all. Spouses don't matter, children matter. And their lives become an endless hover of involvement and micromanagement over their children's lives.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

aribabe said:


> Dallas you are absolutely SPOT ON :smthumbup:
> 
> He has convinced himself, and most of the other people on this thread that he does EVERYTHING for her, and all she does is take and take from him.
> 
> ...



:flowerkitty:


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> What she wanted? The OP himself said she loved sex..SLAM!


Slam? No. His wife is lying. People who "love sex" don't dwindle it down to twice a month, and then when offered the opportunity to go totally sexless jump right on the bandwagon.

She might "love sex" with somebody, but it damn sure isn't her husband.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

I agree that this is a bad idea. W pushed me away sexually about a year ago and I stopped pursuing her. 

TBH I'm at the point where I don't find her physically attractive anymore.

I suggest enjoying the 2-3 times a month with your wife and take care of your needs "by hand" in between.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> You should never discount the reality that there are many many people who want to be parents not spouses. Being a husband or a wife are merely means to an end to them. I think it's very common. My wife is like that, her mom is like that, all her daughters are like that. They don't wake up every day thinking how can I be the worst wife humanly possible - they simply don't think about that at all. Spouses don't matter, children matter. And their lives become an endless hover of involvement and micromanagement over their children's lives.


So true. My wife's best friend is exactly like this. They abstained during their relationship, and then the FIRST time they had sex she got pregnant. She badgered him into putting a ring on it, he let her do that, and they rushed to marry before the baby was born. They got married in their late 20's back in 2008.

Now? She is in love with their daughter. She is so enamored with the girl that she can't abide being away from her. She is so obsessed with the mother/child bond that she's STILL breastfeeding the child, who is nearly 4 years old.

Their sex life? Once a month, at best. These are relatively young people. She sees her life as *MOTHER *and wife.

This is not uncommon. A lot of people confusing parenting with marriage.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Hicks said:


> IF a woman is not meeting her man's #1 emotional need, then she is seriously failing as a wife.
> 
> If she is spending all her energy working and mothering, instead of meeting her man's emotional needs, that makes her an even worse wife.
> 
> ...


She cant "meet his need" it will be THROWN up in her FACE its his need NOT hers..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I can say to my husband SURE I will have MORE sex FOR you ..that last abotu a week or two then he says...But I WANT you to WANT me " and I DONT//(nto as often"./.

So then Im DAMNED becasue I LITTERALLY dONT need that much sex..

Then you get this..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Cheap Trick - I Want You To Want Me - from Budokan DVD - YouTube


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Dallasapple,
I think your husband would react very nicely to knowing that you his wife care about him, his needs, and what is important to him.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Yes research shows that the longest lasting sexless marriages are the ones where the problem is never talked about and both partners have more or less accepted the situation. Some stay together for the kids, financial reasons or one or both partners fear that if they divorce they will remain alone for the rest of their lives.

Constant fighting about sex will go further in breaking up a marriage faster than not having sex at all.

If the couple are fond of each other, are buddies and enjoy married life except for the sex then a sexless marriage can last many years, even decades. And the older the couple is the more likely they will stay married to each other if there is no sex in the relationship.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Mr B.--I don't doubt that your statistics may be true but who can live with that grim realization that you are settling every day? Most people believe that life is too short. A rich, full life would be one lived without regrets. How do you start each day and pursue all you can from it knowing you have sold yourself short?

A life guided by fear, inertia and hopelessness...no thanks, I choose lively and passionate fighting about sex.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Hicks said:


> Dallasapple,
> I think your husband would react very nicely to knowing that you his wife care about him, his needs, and what is important to him.


No he doesnt ..he wanst it to be MY needs..

Just like you hear it all over the place "not the same" if its just for me..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

[QUOTE The only thing it truly accomplished was it diminished the currency value of her V to nothing.][/QUOTE]

I think its a good thing that a littel time showed you valued your wife as a "V" ...and I hope she left you ..Any rank stranger on the street will pay for a BJ..Most women hope they are "valued " for more than V ...Seems like you failed..


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

dallas-Thank you for the warm thoughts. Not exactly, 27 years married and more intimacy now than at any point in our marriage. I think she'll not be leaving me and there are quite few reasons for that which have nothing to do with P's & V's. She most certainly feels like a valued, supported, beautiful, and highly cherished V!

We all have our own story. Sometimes sharing can help to turn a light on for someone. I choose to share realizing full well everyone may not like my story. That's fair. Take what helps, discard the rest. And no, I haven't failed...at much.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I have been where you are. I was fed up. It lasted 18 months until I caved. All through out I wanted to bang pretty much every woman that moved. It's no way to live dude. You need sex.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

While this is great debate and fussing over this word or that, I have yet to see anyone that thinks what you are doing is a good idea.

It was suggested that you are a SAHD. Is this true?

I see that you are studying and working part time.

What are you studying?

What is your part time work?

What does your wife do? Is she a manger or otherwise in a position of power? Does she work long hours? Does she travel for work? What are the men like that works with?

Do you guys work opposite shifts? 

Does one spouse stay home while the other goes out?

Since you are taking such an extreme tactic all this matters.

Do you date your wife?

Does she go out much? How ever frequently what does she do when she goes out?

Does she communicate with any male co-workers or friends much? FB? Email? Texting? Any contact with EXes?

Yes I am going down this road in the interest of leaving no stone unturned.

It about making sure there is no one else meeting your wifes needs and more importantly now that no one is inposition to take your place. 

Also indeed you may be less attractive to her than you used to be.

Have you read www.marriedmansexlife.com ?

Have you and your wife done His Needs Her Needs together?

Do you consider yourself a Nice Guy? What tyoe of man does your wife find interesting and attractive? Are you that kind of guy?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I believe it's neither good nor bad, zen neutral I suppose.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I believe it's neither good nor bad, zen neutral I suppose.


What is the sound of one hand spankng?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> What is the sound of one hand spankng?



flap flap flap


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

What is staring into the cold dead eyes of your partner hoping you finish and hop off ASAP so they can get back to whatever they were doing?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> What is staring into the cold dead eyes of your partner hoping you finish and hop off ASAP so they can get back to whatever they were doing?


That's why you bury their face in the pillow. LOL


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jaquen,
Yes, his wife is lying, and such an obvious lie it is. And it is more important to the OP, that he believe she "loves sex" than it is too actually solve the problem. When a poster says: my spouse loves sex and readily agreed to be sexless recently: doesn't that seem totally contradictory?

The OP describes bad fights about sex but absolutely no info about why she rejects him so often. Does he really want to know?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

new here... I can only say I tried that and it didn't work. I caved in after 3 weeks. 2-3 times/month is not too bad. You need to accept that your wife is LD and get on with it. You have an alternative: divorce. By not having sex, you are destroying your marriage. Don't do it. Just get a divorce, instead. You will grow even more resentful and you'll end up falling out of love with your wife. Like me. It's a dangerous game.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> When a poster says: my spouse loves sex and readily agreed to be sexless recently: doesn't that seem totally contradictory?


We don't know the details. I'm pretty sure his wife loves sex when they have it, but with no libido she can go without it. She won't notice it. I think only LD people can explain the feeling. I'm not one of them, so I can't relate. My wife told me she has to decide when we have sex, because she has no libido. So, everything has to be right. Which isn't very often...


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

OP. This is a possibly one of the worst bad decisions that you can make in a marriage. Sex is an intesnse bonding experience between two people.

The biggest problem I see in this is that it can lead to you resenting her and one (or both of you) engaging in extramarital affairs. 

Also, if you think the arguments are torturous now, wait until you resent her (or she, you) for this. Some of the worse arguments that I had with other people resulted from them not having sex.

Why does she reject you so often? Are you meeting her emotionally needs? I know that I would not want to meet my husband's physical needs if he didn't meet my emotional ones. Also, do you help around the house after work? I am not talking about cleaning the entire house or doing all the laundry. I'm talking about picking up after yourself so she doesn't end up resenting you. Are you more beta than alpha? Most women desire strong, confident men who know how to take charge of a situation. They don't marry a spineless person who would cave to every demand. Also, make sure that there is not another party in your marriage. If she is not getting it from you (and she loves sex), she is getting it from someone. Finally, have her check out by a doctor. Like men, hormones could come into play and make her not want to be with you.

Now, I would take her to the doctors and see if there is a problem there. Go to a sex therapist to help you both reconnect with each other.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> We don't know the details. I'm pretty sure his wife loves sex when they have it, but with no libido she can go without it. She won't notice it. I think only LD people can explain the feeling. I'm not one of them, so I can't relate. My wife told me she has to decide when we have sex, because she has no libido. So, everything has to be right. Which isn't very often...


That's like saying "I love chocolate cake", but I won't eat it unless it's my birthday, a full moon, and the chocolate was hand made in a tiny town in France.

No. Nobody who actually "loves sex" rarely does it, and when offered the opportunity to go sexless, jumps right on that bandwagon. Low and no drive people need to stop lying with this bull****. What they're actually saying is "I don't really want to have sex, but if things get going, I don't mind it at all and can even have a pretty good time".

But it totally, and completely, bastardizes the concept of "love" to suggest that somebody who hardly ever wants to actually have sex "loves sex". 


When you "love" a thing, it's not optional in your life.

There is a possibility that the woman does indeed "love sex", but again, does that mean she "loves sex" with her husband?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jaquen said:


> "I don't really want to have sex, but if things get going, I don't mind it at all and can even have a pretty good time".


This is where you go wrong... I would rephrase like this: 

"I don't really *feel like having sex*, but if things get going, I don't mind it at all and can even have a pretty good time".

They want to have sex, but not that often, because they don't feel the need. It's unfortunate, but this the classic example of HD vs LD, like in my marriage (I am HD). There is no solution, imo, because the LD partner doesn't really need sex. It is and always be a compromise. The OP has to accept it or leave, because his wife is not going to change. There is no point in staging a farce like 'I'm not going to have sex with you ever again'... we all have a choice. He's a grown man and should stop behaving like a grumpy teenager...


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## steve mck (Aug 20, 2012)

Wow. 

I do not think this forum is where I need to be at all right now. Too many assumptions, nothing to do with what I asked. 

The assumption that I am a spineless doormat just because I do not get all the sex I want. 

The assumption that I think I do everything, and I think my wife does nothing. 

The assumption that she is cheating. 

The assumption that I only raise my kids and do housework 'for her.' 

The assumption that my wife gleefully accepted the offer of a sexless marriage.

The assumption that she has used her magic vagina to suck me into domestic service. The *****! 

All of these assumptions, based on what? 

I can't see how you could have possibly come to any of these conclusions based on what I wrote. Unless you were predisposed to thinking that way about men who are in low sex marriages.

Or, was it the mention that I raise kids and work part time that made everyone jump down that path? 

One way or another, a bunch of people seem to have decided it was on them to judge my character as a man, on the basis of a few descriptive lines. And it sounds like they are pretty keen on doing that. 

I see there have been some decent answers too, people who at least talked about what I asked. And I thank people for those. The universal chorus is that it is a bad idea. Incidentally, we have decided against trying it and are working on ways to increase the frequency of sex, including booking in for some sex therapy. Go us. 

But as for the rest, especially the automatic assumption that I must be weak because I do not get the sex I want, but still try to be a good husband and father, and I have therefore let my wife walk all over me...wow. 

This sounds totally like people are actually talking to someone else, maybe themselves. Lot of projection on this forum. Way too much. 

And if I were a forum moderator I would worry about what would happen if suicidal people came on here and were met with stuff like this, in response to a request for help. 

Ya'll aren't marriage counselors, or Judge Judy, and the MMSL isn't the Bible, it's just a guy trying to make money off you. So calm down and quit making snap judgements about people's characters and personal qualities. It makes you sound like you just come here to compete. 

Anyway, I am out.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I knew the "are you a stay at home dad who your wife secretly thinks is a spineless wuss" would especially strike a nerve. It's a go to that I personally don't get.

I do think a lot of us, myself included, made assumptions about the marriage in an effort to suss out what was really going on. There weren't a lot of details given, but many people here did actually spend time trying to help you.

Take care. Good luck, and I hope things work out for you guys.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

steve mck said:


> *Ya'll aren't marriage counselors, or Judge Judy,* and the MMSL isn't the Bible, it's just a guy trying to make money off you. So calm down and quit making snap judgements about people's characters and personal qualities. It makes you sound like you just come here to compete.
> 
> Anyway, I am out.


Yet, you came here seeking advice. Gave a short NON descript post and then was shocked by the questions and assumptions made. Hmm, is someone "frustrated"?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I would have to agree..if you love sex (but are lower drive than your spouse) its very real that you can love sex but are sexually satiated for longer periods of time but then eventually the thoughts of it again wet your appetite and you are "distracted" until you get it..(crave )..IOW you love sex just less often but that person then wouldnt be happy with being informed they were never going to(ever) have sex again..It would be a very depressing and alarming suggestion ...

My husband actually asked me one time because of our sexual issues that very question ..Would you be fine with never having sex again (with him or ANYONE) for the rest of your life and I didnt hesitate with my answer which was NO...I would not..But I also agree its possible some one who loves sex depending on the circumstances can be fine with the thought of never having sex again with the one they are with..

The funny thing is though its not just the wife here in the OP saying they love sex but will try living without it..the OP is saying he loves sex SO MUCH that he would rather have NONE than 3 times a month....So does HE as well really not love sex?

Color me confused I guess...


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Steve for what its worth I tried to defend those "assumptions" about your wife ..I got made fun of for "zoning in " on someone commenting you do many things and she does "nothing" You never said that..as well as her restricting herself in the marriage to mothering the children..you never said that either..

And I personally dont think you are a wimp or a doormat beause you havent managed to bully your wife into givign you all the sex you want...you commetned even you dont want it like that anyway..thats not a wimp thats a man with feelings who apparrently loves his wife and family regardless of this issue..


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> The funny thing is though its not just the wife here in the OP saying they love sex but will try living without it..the OP is saying he loves sex SO MUCH that he would rather have NONE than 3 times a month....So does HE as well really not love sex?
> 
> Color me confused I guess...


I love sex.

However if my sex life dried up to once a month, and only when my wife wanted it, I wouldn't accept those scraps. If I chose to stay with her, I would rather go without.

There is something extraordinarily insulting about being deprived of sex, and only being "allowed" it when a sexually dead spouse decides to pry open their legs every blue moon to "gift" you with sex.

Also for some people sex begets the desire for more sexual activity. If we were "near sexless", that occasional bone would just spark me to want even more. It would actually be easier on my libido and drive to drop the blue moon sex, and just go without.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I love sex.
> 
> However if my sex life dried up to once a month, and only when my wife wanted it, I wouldn't accept those scraps. If I chose to stay with her, I would rather go without.


If you accepted the reasons, would you still go without? Because there's always a reason. Might be a reasonable reason...  Saying 'I would go without' regardless of the reason is a bit too black and white for me. No wife denies sex to her husband to hurt him, on purpose, and if they do, there is no point in staying married. You can get out.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Also for some people sex begets the desire for more sexual activity.


I agree and unfortunately some this sex begets desire can be so overwhelming they can never really "feel" satiated..Like a drug addict that will just want more and more...I think its called chasing the dragon ..never attaining the ultimate high that results in "satisfaction " or feelings of contentment..

But for me personally I would rather have sex once a year than never again I cherish the experience...and the memories.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> If you accepted the reasons, would you still go without? Because there's always a reason. Might be a reasonable reason...  Saying 'I would go without' regardless of the reason is a bit too black and white for me. No wife denies sex to her husband to hurt him, on purpose, and if they do, there is no point in staying married. You can get out.


I would only accept no sex from my wife under extreme circumstances. There are not a plethora of "reasonable reasons" to go completely without sexual activity in a marriage. My wife and I believe in keeping a variety of sexual activities going in our marriage, so even if a particular kind of activity was limited, or eliminated, due to, say injury, our view of what constitutes "sex" allows some leg room.

If there is a temporary lull in sex, such as post-baby, or due to some type of psychological issue, which I have encountered, I am a patient man. We practiced long term celibacy pre-marriage, so we both know we can go without. But again, this is temporary. 

Absolutely under no circumstance would I ever accept endless sexlessness for the "typical" reasons you find in most marriages. My wife and I are desperately in love, and deeply attracted to one another. Something would be _extremely_ wrong with our relationship if we got to the point of chronic sexlessness.

Neither one of us believe in sexless marriage.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

People, this post is over

Let it go


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

[QUOTEIt gets to a point, and I think OP is there, that the frustration and resentment of expecting a sexual relationship in a marriage and not having it is a lot more than no longer expecting it.][/QUOTE]

The thing is ..is sex 3 times a month IS sexual relationship..I mean lets put it this way...If sex 3 tiems a month ISNT a sexual relationship then married couples could have sex with a stranger 3 times a month and it shouldnt be called a "sexual relationship" with that stranger..It should be called "nothing" ..


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I think it's important to note that it depends totally on the couple, and the individuals there within, what constitutes a "sexless marriage". All formal definitions of the concept cover not only totally sex-free marriages and relationships, but also relationships that do have sexual activity, but it's low.

The OP said that he's getting a "fifth" of what he desires, and that he's frustrated to the point of tears. He also said that they have sex 2-3 times per month.

I can only speak for myself, but if we were only have sex twice monthly, and this went on for long stretches of time, both my wife and I would consider that pretty much a "sexless marriage".


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## hldnhope (Apr 10, 2012)

It will NOT work. You may think that you can do this, but you will want it, and by not getting it from your wife, you will build up resentment towards her.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

So glad you are getting MC. I know there are a lot of assumptions on this board. I think the longer you wait to respond to an OP the more crazy people get. 
I get frustrated too. I say I don't get it enough from my husband and I get everything from he's letting me down to he's resentful of me to he has hormone issues to he might be gay to something us wrong with him to he's not a normal man. 
I just try to filter and get out what I can that is good. 
I don't think every marriage fits the cookie cutter definitions that are espoused in MMSL but it seems to work for a lot of people. 
Good luck in MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

What is MMSL? Is that the "love language" book?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I think it's important to note that it depends totally on the couple, and the individuals there within, what constitutes a "sexless marriage". All formal definitions of the concept cover not only totally sex-free marriages and relationships, but also relationships that do have sexual activity, but it's low.
> 
> The OP said that he's getting a "fifth" of what he desires, and that he's frustrated to the point of tears. He also said that they have sex 2-3 times per month.
> 
> I can only speak for myself, but if we were only have sex twice monthly, and this went on for long stretches of time, both my wife and I would consider that pretty much a "sexless marriage".


Im of the mindframe that even if I had sex with my husband every day sometimes twice..but I was havign sex with a strange man 2 to 3 times a month with a different man ..he certaintly would NOT call my relationship with that differrent man "sexless"..it woud be ALL about the sex we had ..however "infrequent"..


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Im of the mindframe that even if I had sex with my husband every day sometimes twice..but I was havign sex with a strange man 2 to 3 times a month with a different man ..he certaintly would NOT call my relationship with that differrent man "sexless"..it woud be ALL about the sex we had ..however "infrequent"..


This analogy doesn't work. At all.

That's like suggesting that if you're fed 20 times a year, you're not technically "starving".


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I can only speak for myself, but if we were only have sex twice monthly, and this went on for long stretches of time, both my wife and I would consider that pretty much a "sexless marriage".


Ah, ah... yes, that's what I used to say, until someone said I was lucky, since he hadn't had any sex for the last 10 years in his marriage... all is relative.  I think 3 times a month after over 20 years is ok... but then...


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Cre8ify said:


> Mr B.--I don't doubt that your statistics may be true but who can live with that grim realization that you are settling every day? Most people believe that life is too short. A rich, full life would be one lived without regrets. How do you start each day and pursue all you can from it knowing you have sold yourself short?
> 
> A life guided by fear, inertia and hopelessness...no thanks, I choose lively and passionate fighting about sex.


My god go over to the Experience Project's Sexless Marriage discussion group with almost 30,000 members and you will find lots and lots of stories of sexless couples who stay together. In fact more sexless couples stay together than break up if they are over 40. Most feel that life isn't a fairy tale and good sex in a long term relationship is more a matter of luck than anything else.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> What is staring into the cold dead eyes of your partner hoping you finish and hop off ASAP so they can get back to whatever they were doing?


You are the master


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> The thing is ..is sex 3 times a month IS sexual relationship..I mean lets put it this way...If sex 3 tiems a month ISNT a sexual relationship then married couples could have sex with a stranger 3 times a month and it shouldnt be called a "sexual relationship" with that stranger..It should be called "nothing" ..


So does having sex twice a year. Strawman.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I wonder if DA's husband only told her he loved her 3 times a month if she would say "He never tells me he loves me."?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I guess Im a bit confused ..where in the OP did you get the impression she provides "nothing"?
> 
> Sounds like she works (full time) Im assuming the money she earns form her labor goes into the household to help support the 3 of them their "comfortable lifestyle"..
> 
> ...


I see your point Dallas,

But, I think the issue here is how often does his wife get her needs met in return. IME, it is rare that a LD wife says "you know, I just can't get in the mood very often for sex, but in recognition of that I will not ask much of you in return".

It's much more common for the LD to undervalue sex relative to the HD. This leads to a prevailing attitude of "I will only have sex with XYZ frequency, but my H needs to attend to my needs regularly (like daily)".

Balance seems to work well within a wide range of situations. It's imbalance (demanding near daily attention for infrequent sex) that creates the problems.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Mr B said:


> Most feel that life isn't a fairy tale and good sex in a long term relationship is more a matter of luck than anything else.


This is a B.S. sentiment; feeling that way does not make it so. Consider that only one person in such a relationship will feel that way; the other person will think "perfect, I get someone to help with bills and chores, and I don't even have to sleep with him/her".


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> The thing is ..is sex 3 times a month IS sexual relationship..I mean lets put it this way...If sex 3 tiems a month ISNT a sexual relationship then married couples could have sex with a stranger 3 times a month and it shouldnt be called a "sexual relationship" with that stranger..It should be called "nothing" ..


It may be a relationship insofar as it is more than the 10x per year that seems to be the point of technically sexless. So, instead of calling it "no sex", lets call it "little sex" (I doubt anyone would say less than once a week is high or even moderate frequency).

Unless you buy into the argument of "at least you're getting some", that little bit of sex does not reduce the validity of the arguments made here.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> Ah, ah... yes, that's what I used to say, until someone said I was lucky, since he hadn't had any sex for the last 10 years in his marriage... all is relative.  I think 3 times a month after over 20 years is ok... but then...



A friend of mine's parents, married well over 20 years, with six or seven kids, get it on _daily_ still. He was actually surprised that my wife and I have sex "only" 3 to 4 times a week (at the time of that conversation).

It's all a matter of perspective.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

hldnhope said:


> It will NOT work. You may think that you can do this, but you will want it, and by not getting it from your wife, you will build up resentment towards her.


This exactly.

Or, you will deal with the lack of sex by distancing yourself from her. Your wife will not accept this; to her, "sexless" means "while meeting her relationship needs". You will be the bad guy for punishing her or some such.

It's far better to make your stand now and face whatever consequences may come. Nothing will improve by continuing to bend over for her.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's an unbalanced situation, which requires careful management. If you are staying in the marriage with a LD wife, you have to accept it and deal with it. The alternative is divorce. The problem is that very often the LD wife still demands a full emotional involvement, which the HD husband is not able to offer 100%, because of the unbalanced relationship. It's important that the LD recognises this, but this is often not the case. I told my wife this several times and she seems ok with it, although I'm pretty sure underneath she doesn't get it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Absentia,
If she does like sex when they have it, then this really is just a matter of teaching her to relax and let him arouse her. 

Many/most women seem to have responsive desire. If you want your spouse to let you arouse them you need to learn how they like to be approached when they are in neutral.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Absentia,
> If she does like sex when they have it, then this really is just a matter of teaching her to relax and let him arouse her.
> 
> Many/most women seem to have responsive desire. If you want your spouse to let you arouse them you need to learn how they like to be approached when they are in neutral.


We absolutely agree... :smthumbup:


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Steve, if she doesn't have some sort of medical issue that makes it painful for to have sex with you, then she needs to GO.
My cheating ex pulled this on me for the last ten years of our twenty year marriage. Yet, she was able to give it away to men she didn't even know.
All that you will accomplish by quitting is you will become somebody NOBODY wishes to be around and in spite of your efforts your marriage will end in divorce.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> I wonder if DA's husband only told her he loved her 3 times a month if she would say "He never tells me he loves me."?


No I would not say that..But having said that all my desires and needs are not met 100% ..let alone 100% of the time.

And by the way telling he he loves me 3 times a month is plenty.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

In Absentia (BTW: love your screen name),
I may be wrong in extrapolating because my only experience is with one long marriage. 

Sometime during year 1 my soon to be future wife turns to me in a fury and says: Stop groping me I HATE IT when you grope me. And I stopped immediately and completely. And thus began a 22 year period during which affection and sex become completely separate activities unless she (the LD spouse) elects to convert affection into sex. 

The good:
- She loves affection, and more importantly loves my affection 
- She relaxes when I touch her in a non-sexual way
- This became the single biggest factor in our ability to align our very different sex drives. Most nights she would start out in neutral and I would start by touching her in a non-sexual manner and then slowly (emphasis on slowly) touch her in a lightly sexual manner. 
- And after that she would set the pace by responding and setting the pace. Yes - there were 3 or so nights a month when (ovulation) she was the aggressor/initiator, but the rest of the time, she would relax and let me light the fire.

The bad:
- Not sure there is any. I like non-sexual affection as much as she does. 

Separate from this - we did have conflict over sex. Mostly that is on me - and I own my majority share of it. Too much "gentle" sex, not enough "taking her/dominance". That said, I had a simplified view of our marriage which was/is valid: Outside the bedroom it is all about you almost all the time. If you do not wish/enjoy frequent sex with me, please tell me and I will find a friend with benefits. I love my W. It is also true that to be happy - she needed it to be all about her most of the time outside the bedroom. That is neither good nor bad, it just is. And I wasn't agreeable to extending that model to include the bedroom. She understood that from the get go - and it all worked. 




In Absentia said:


> This is where you go wrong... I would rephrase like this:
> 
> "I don't really *feel like having sex*, but if things get going, I don't mind it at all and can even have a pretty good time".
> 
> They want to have sex, but not that often, because they don't feel the need. It's unfortunate, but this the classic example of HD vs LD, like in my marriage (I am HD). There is no solution, imo, because the LD partner doesn't really need sex. It is and always be a compromise. The OP has to accept it or leave, because his wife is not going to change. There is no point in staging a farce like 'I'm not going to have sex with you ever again'... we all have a choice. He's a grown man and should stop behaving like a grumpy teenager...


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## Gorky75 (Aug 22, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Good luck.
> 
> Since you will have more time on your hands you may want to make sure both of you are not having sex with anyone else. Just sayin.


:iagree:
This is my concern. It is a need that will want to be satisfied since you both enjoy sex. Keep in mind that since it is your idea and makes sense to you, it might be easier for you to follow than her. If she feels she was pushed into this she may look for another outlet.

I assume you both plan to masturbate?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Gorky75 said:


> :iagree:
> This is my concern. It is a need that will want to be satisfied since you both enjoy sex. Keep in mind that since it is your idea and makes sense to you, it might be easier for you to follow than her. If she feels she was pushed into this she may look for another outlet.
> 
> I assume you both plan to masturbate?


Even with my period of self-enforced celibacy I found that masturbation was a poor substitute. In fact, it built resentment more. Here I am, married and monogamous, having to masturbate to take care of ALL my sexual needs. Doesn't help the situation.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Chris Taylor said:


> Even with my period of self-enforced celibacy I found that masturbation was a poor substitute. In fact, it built resentment more. Here I am, married and monogamous, having to masturbate to take care of ALL my sexual needs. Doesn't help the situation.


That was my experience as well. I hated my wife because I was reduced to masturbation as my only sexual interaction... That’s pathetic.



dallasapple said:


> But I will tell you REDUCING a human being who does many things including having sex with you (just not enough ) to providign NOTHING is demeaning and degrading ...Especially if she will continue to be demeaned and degragded as "nothing" simply becasue she doesnt get HORNY AS often but does it "for him "..She is being "devalued" to a "nothing" because she is not as HORNY as him ..Do you not see that?


This one got my hackles up. I do understand what you are saying. It is the same sort of justification my wife used to shame me into thinking about how selfish I was being....

So, I flipped the tables on her. She wanted a ‘best friend’. Is it enough to just let her talk to me once in a while and give nothing back... like she interrupted me and I didn’t find it amusing or interesting? Would it be ok for me to act like she owes me a favor just because I gave her my attention for a bit? Can I yell at her because listening to her yesterday should mean that I don't have to do this again for a couple weeks? Is it ok for me to tell her to speed things up and just get to the point? ...... Of coarse this wouldn’t be good. It does happen every now and again... But what if it was regularly this way and went on for years? Now, for a minute, consider if there was a ‘rule’ that she could only get this interaction with me and wasn’t allowed outside friendships at all... getting it anywhere else would be a ‘really big deal’. Think this might create some really big gap in our relationship?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

First off I think it's not a good idea.

Seems like you want her to not just do it for you but she has to enjoy it immensely. That's asking a lot sometimes. I'm sure you don't immensely enjoy conversation 100% of the time.

It sounded to me like you guys thought 1-2 times a week was good but it's actually only 3 times a month or so. She want's to want it that often so there's a silver lining.

How many opportunities don't happen because you're unhappy that she's not instigating it? I've got to say I used to be frustrated that I had to be the one to pursue. Now I don't mind pursuing since usually I can get her in the mood.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Racer said:


> This one got my hackles up. I do understand what you are saying. It is the same sort of justification my wife used to shame me into thinking about how selfish I was being....
> 
> So, I flipped the tables on her. She wanted a ‘best friend’. Is it enough to just let her talk to me once in a while and give nothing back... like she interrupted me and I didn’t find it amusing or interesting? Would it be ok for me to act like she owes me a favor just because I gave her my attention for a bit? Can I yell at her because listening to her yesterday should mean that I don't have to do this again for a couple weeks? Is it ok for me to tell her to speed things up and just get to the point? ...... Of coarse this wouldn’t be good. It does happen every now and again... But what if it was regularly this way and went on for years? Now, for a minute, consider if there was a ‘rule’ that she could only get this interaction with me and wasn’t allowed outside friendships at all... getting it anywhere else would be a ‘really big deal’. Think this might create some really big gap in our relationship?


Hmm. That makes sense.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Excellent post, Racer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Did the OP seriously just post here seeking advice on a public internet forum, provide little backstory, step out of the thread leaving members to discuss things only among themselves with only speculation to go by until maybe the OP could flesh out more details, and then come back and throw a tantrum because the people here are not professionals?

His poor wife... He sounds like a handful himself for anybody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

you may not have passion. Sorry to say but its a possibility

i believe a great deal of marriages that see sex become a bore is because of that. The two individuals love each other they have the commitment but its not the "true love" aka the consummate love. You can have commitment and intimacy but not have passion and that can create a marriage in which you two are committed and you are attracted to each other you do not mind having sex with each other and you are fond of one another but without the passion it becomes a bore it becomes very "boring". It becomes repetitive and you do not feel goosebumps and all mushy around that person. 

That seems to be the case with many many people on this site. I advice them to honestly leave and find someone else. I advice all people to actually date for a very long long time to see if they are compatible. Sex should NOT decrease in marriage that is unhealthy and is the sign (imo of either a medical problem or the marriage not being a "true love").


best of luck

Life is way too short to be unhappy. I hope you can fix this and if you cannot than i really advice you two separate. I do not believe that one should stay in a unhappy marriage if you two have always been like this and you feel there never was passion (be honest with yourself) than move on (it will be very hard) but you can possibly meet someone else who lights up your world like you never imagined.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

steve mck said:


> Wow.
> 
> I do not think this forum is where I need to be at all right now. Too many assumptions, nothing to do with what I asked.
> 
> ...


Hmm. What's sucks is that he has a point. Lots of assumptions, projecting, and posturing. Nature of the beast maybe.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> Hmm. What's sucks is that he has a point. Lots of assumptions, projecting, and posturing. Nature of the beast maybe.


Exactly... So, the "beast" that is professional therapy might be of a different nature free from those attributes, but it certainly isn't free of charge.

I've gotten a lot of advice here through the years, and even with the worst posts I disliked I understood it didn't make much sense to complain about unprofessional advice that I sought out and requested from non-professionals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Interlocutor said:


> Exactly... So, the "beast" that is professional therapy might be of a different nature free from those attributes, but it certainly isn't free of charge.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think these posts start with more projection but then it's becomes less as the post gets longer. Of course the post crashers like to read the first few pages and re-ignite things. I've been guilty of that myself.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I think these posts start with more projection but then it's becomes less as the post gets longer. Of course the post crashers like to read the first few pages and re-ignite things. I've been guilty of that myself.


That happens a lot when people join threads at page 20, compulsed by their own particular and difficult scenario sensing the opportunity to find release via projection after reading the thread topic or just the title, without having read through the thread at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> [QUOTEIt gets to a point, and I think OP is there, that the frustration and resentment of expecting a sexual relationship in a marriage and not having it is a lot more than no longer expecting it.]


The thing is ..is sex 3 times a month IS sexual relationship..I mean lets put it this way...If sex 3 tiems a month ISNT a sexual relationship then married couples could have sex with a stranger 3 times a month and it shouldnt be called a "sexual relationship" with that stranger..It should be called "nothing" ..[/QUOTE]

I was gonna stay quiet, but this struck a chord and now I have to chime in. 

I'm a woman with a fairly high sexual drive. My husband is really high. He could go with twice a day every day. Sometimes I can do that as well, but let's face it: life isn't always conducive to such an arrangement. Anyway, I have a high drive for most women, I think. It doesn't take much for me to be in the mood, and lately, I've been getting in the mood by myself without any coaxing from my husband. 

2-3 times a month _would kill me emotionally_. I have struggled with self-image issues off and on since I was about nineteen. I'm actually very skinny and have a wonderful figure, and a great rack. One of the primary things in my life that helps me battle these image issues is how much my husband desires me. _*Nothing*_ in this world helps me feel sexy and desirable more than having sex with my man. 

I've had the body issues under control for about four or five months now. I can actually look at myself in the mirror and admit, "Yeah, I'm not where I'd like to be but I'm not horrid or fat either" and be totally fine. Sex with my husband was one thing that lead to this victory. 

As a woman, my identity is found in various things. I'm a student, so I don't have a career to identify with yet. I have passions and dreams, and am in the process of pursuing them, but they haven't come to fruition yet. I have no children yet, so I can't identify myself as a mother. The only true identity that I have that has flourished is my identity _as a wife_. I am proud to be one, I'm proud to be with the man I married, and I'm proud to be an example to my friends who aren't yet married. 

I know, I'm getting to my point rather slowly, but bear with me. As a wife, there are certain things that I need to do to be successful. Communicate with my husband, respect my husband, love my husband, have fun with him, work with him through any trials or difficulties that may come our way; and with all of this, sex is another thing that identifies me as his wife. He could have a sexless relationship with a female companion or secretary for communication, love, respect, fun and work. Those don't require a wife. Those don't even really require a commitment. 

Sex is the ultimate expression of communication, trust, friendship, love and respect for both spouses. If my husband's drive wasn't above 2-3 times a month, I would do what I could to work with him for a time. But if there wasn't an increase...I seriously would leave. It's not that I "need" my husband or I don't have an identity. I can be my own person independent from anyone else just fine. But as a wife, I _need_ a frequent, satisfying sexual relationship, or I feel as I have failed. 2-3 times a month is better than nothing, I suppose. But it would not be satisfying to me. Just because there is some sex taking place doesn't mean it's enough. And we all deserve to be with someone who sexually fulfills us.

As a woman, I enjoy pleasing my husband. If he suddenly wasn't horny for me anymore, I would be devastated. Sex is much more than just a physical expression of love. It binds the couple together in absolutely every way imaginable, and, imo, there are many men and women who _don't_ recognize that.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> No I would not say that..But having said that all my desires and needs are not met 100% ..let alone 100% of the time.
> 
> And by the way telling he he loves me 3 times a month is plenty.


My husband would never get away with telling me he loves me three times a month. No way. Nor would I get away with having sex with his three times a month. No way. That, to me, seems like the absolute bare minimum that a spouse could put forth so that they are doing "something". But who wants a marriage with the bare minimum? Not me. I want a healthy, flourishing, freaking awesome marriage where we both work hard to please the other in every way they need.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Created2Write, you just joined my list of posters here that should be the mold for all wives...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Interlocutor said:


> Created2Write, you just joined my list of posters here that should be the mold for all wives...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks.  I had to learn some of this the hard way, but most of it was learned from different situations my husband and I have been in.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Interlocutor said:


> Created2Write, you just joined my list of posters here that should be the mold for all wives...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea I'm a fan too. Not just from this thread.


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## SMacMe (Aug 23, 2012)

Dear Sexless Marriage: 
I joined this site just to reply to you. I, a woman, am in the same position as your spouse. We have been married over 20 years, and we have a great relationship. We love being with each other, and love our lives. However we have been fighting about sex since before we married. We are in counseling now, after he went to Craig's List and found a "f*ck-buddy", which ended after I discovered it. He went looking for this friend in what was a well-intentioned effort to take "that issue" out of our lives. And frankly, it worked. We were happier during that time frame because the pressure was off (although my discovery of the affair and aftermath has been nothing less than "traumatic" for me and ultimately made things worse -- and I'm sure he would not recommend this approach to you or anyone else). 

Anyway, in counseling, I am discovering that one issue that seems to have the most significant affect on my libido is (hard to explain in a few words but ...): He is "turned on" and wants to have sex with me even if I'm not interested or even "participating." It is like he "needs" to have sex, and it's okay if I just sort of lay there passively. So I feel used. 

And I know what you're all thinking: "Well participate! Make him make you enjoy it." Again, hard to explain in a few words, but that's not the problem. He would do anything to make me happy. But (from my perspective) it is his drive, it doesn't seem so much connected to US, but to some physical need (like eating or peeing) -- such that no matter how you dress it up, it still feels like he is doing what he is doing so he can have sex (i.e., he's manipulating me so he can use me/my body). 

Okay so maybe I have issues here too (remember, we ARE in therapy). But I just wanted to express my support for what you are doing. We are also currently in "vacation" mode, essentially so we can share/develop some intimacy in ways other than sex and so I feel "safe" in intimate moments without feeling like it is going to lead to sex (so I don't feel like it is manipulation). He's struggling with this but is committed, because like you, we have tried various other solutions in the past, and nothing worked; we are SO SICK AND TIRED of fighting over sex!

I don't know if my recent insight into why I'm not interested, and the current strategy/solution, will ultimately turn the tide for us. But at least I have some hope now. And I hope you find it helpful. Ultimately I'd suggest counseling.
Good luck


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Smack--Do you find your husband to be sexually attractive?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SMacMe said:


> Dear Sexless Marriage:
> I joined this site just to reply to you. I, a woman, am in the same position as your spouse. We have been married over 20 years, and we have a great relationship. We love being with each other, and love our lives. However we have been fighting about sex since before we married. We are in counseling now, after he went to Craig's List and found a "f*ck-buddy", which ended after I discovered it. He went looking for this friend in what was a well-intentioned effort to take "that issue" out of our lives. And frankly, it worked. We were happier during that time frame because the pressure was off (although my discovery of the affair and aftermath has been nothing less than "traumatic" for me and ultimately made things worse -- and I'm sure he would not recommend this approach to you or anyone else).
> 
> Anyway, in counseling, I am discovering that one issue that seems to have the most significant affect on my libido is (hard to explain in a few words but ...): He is "turned on" and wants to have sex with me even if I'm not interested or even "participating." It is like he "needs" to have sex, and it's okay if I just sort of lay there passively. So I feel used.
> ...


Smac, I'm glad you joined and I hope you stick around. I am pretty new here also. 

Not only is it good for steve_mck to hear your perspective, it's also good for the rest of us. Now we can have more personal connection to both sides of this and not a lop sided view.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> you may not have passion. Sorry to say but its a possibility
> 
> i believe a great deal of marriages that see sex become a bore is because of that. The two individuals love each other they have the commitment but its not the "true love" aka the consummate love. You can have commitment and intimacy but not have passion and that can create a marriage in which you two are committed and you are attracted to each other you do not mind having sex with each other and you are fond of one another but without the passion it becomes a bore it becomes very "boring". It becomes repetitive and you do not feel goosebumps and all mushy around that person.
> 
> ...


I believe there is so, so much truth to this. The more married people in my life, and on this board, that I encounter, the more I am convinced that the majority of marriages are NOT between people who feel that deep, abiding, soul scorching, consummate love.

Not that this is a surprise; marriage, as an institution, has never really been based off the joining of two passionate soulmates. People have always married for a plethora of reasons that have little, if anything, to do with that kind of love. But in this day and age, where divorce is no longer a taboo for a great deal of the world, I do believe that GREAT lovestories, and deeply connected soulmates, are what is required to chose to stay married for the sake of the marriage itself (i.e. not the kids, or for financial stability).


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

I shamelessly use my wife for sex and she uses me to cook her extravagant dinners all the time. So far, it's been working out great, even when she wants me to cook her something knowing I am not in the mood, zero, to cook at all, which happens a lot. Wait a second... I am not her personal chef! *resolve face*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

SMacMe said:


> Dear Sexless Marriage:
> I joined this site just to reply to you. I, a woman, am in the same position as your spouse. We have been married over 20 years, and we have a great relationship. We love being with each other, and love our lives. However we have been fighting about sex since before we married. We are in counseling now, after he went to Craig's List and found a "f*ck-buddy", which ended after I discovered it. He went looking for this friend in what was a well-intentioned effort to take "that issue" out of our lives. And frankly, it worked. We were happier during that time frame because the pressure was off (although my discovery of the affair and aftermath has been nothing less than "traumatic" for me and ultimately made things worse -- and I'm sure he would not recommend this approach to you or anyone else).
> 
> Anyway, in counseling, I am discovering that one issue that seems to have the most significant affect on my libido is (hard to explain in a few words but ...): He is "turned on" and wants to have sex with me even if I'm not interested or even "participating." It is like he "needs" to have sex, and it's okay if I just sort of lay there passively. So I feel used.
> ...


I'm interested to know how your solution works. 

From my perspective sex is a physical need. And yet when I share sexual moments with my wife it is about intimacy as well as need.

Do you have some target like "intimacy leads to sex half the time", or something. How do you get to an end state that suits you both, since you want different things.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> Your comment about taking the issue of sex of the table making for a happier time rings a bell. In marriage counseling my wife said that when I was having an affair, unknown to her, and wasn't looking for sex from her, she felt relieved that I wasn't "pestering" her for sex. With that issue off the table, we started getting along better.
> 
> I don't recommend cheating as a "solution" to this issue, but you can see that when the issue was resolved, things got better.
> 
> There certainly is both a physical and emotional need for sex and there does need to be non-sexual intimacy in a relationship. Cuddling, hugging, kissing... all of which doesn't lead to sex. But if it NEVER leads to sex, it will lead to a guy being frustrated. There needs to be a balance between the two.


The fact that when sex was removed and the relationship improved doesn't raise any concerns for you? I would be crushed if my wife was relieved that I didn't want to have sex with her. (from here I think it would be a deal breaker) I think that points to bigger problems.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

SMacMe said:


> But (from my perspective) it is his drive, it doesn't seem so much connected to US, but to some physical need (like eating or peeing) -- such that no matter how you dress it up, it still feels like he is doing what he is doing so he can have sex (i.e., he's manipulating me so he can use me/my body).


I think this is called having a penis... if you don't have one, you don't really know what it feels like. Sometimes it takes your life over, completely.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Chris Taylor said:


> Your comment about taking the issue of sex of the table making for a happier time rings a bell..


I'd just change that to "taking the pressure for sex off the table" really helps this. That's sort of my sin in all this. When the sex started drying up, I ramped up the pressure for it. Years and years of arguing over it. And because THAT was the battle I choose to dig in on, it was the only complaint she really heard. So, she thought that was all she meant to me... Cycle in her fear that her value was between her thighs... and there is a very long spiral downward.

When I took that pressure away and focusing on other things. She slowly started coming around.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Racer said:


> I'd just change that to "taking the pressure for sex off the table" really helps this. That's sort of my sin in all this. When the sex started drying up, I ramped up the pressure for it. Years and years of arguing over it. And because THAT was the battle I choose to dig in on, it was the only complaint she really heard. So, she thought that was all she meant to me... Cycle in her fear that her value was between her thighs... and there is a very long spiral downward.
> 
> When I took that pressure away and focusing on other things. She slowly started coming around.


Exactly my experience. I did complain a lot, got angry, put lots of pressure on her. Result? She hated it and associated it to a bad place to be in. Take the pressure off and things will get better, albeit rather slowly.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Your story makes me sad, Christ Taylor. I'm so sorry your wife has to make excuses so she can get out of sex with you. I understand not being in the mood if emotional needs aren't being met. That's been a concern in my marriage for a little while now. _But_ sex can, and usually is, an emotional need for a man and it's wrong and unfair for him to suffer emotionally, but still be expected to meet his wife's emotional needs. What ever happened to marriage being a two way street?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> What ever happened to marriage being a two way street?


Unfortunately, people define "two way street" differently. I think my wife sees it that she dis the housework, handled the kids, etc... and that was her contribution to me. My contribution was to bring home a pay check, provide food and housing and give her the non-sexual intimacy she wanted. No amount of discussion ever seemed to change that.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> Unfortunately, people define "two way street" differently. I think my wife sees it that she dis the housework, handled the kids, etc... and that was her contribution to me. My contribution was to bring home a pay check, provide food and housing and give her the non-sexual intimacy she wanted. No amount of discussion ever seemed to change that.


That's ridiculous, and I am so very sorry to hear it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> When I went into my self-imposed sexless marriage for about 10 weeks, I saw a funny change in my wife.
> 
> Before, whenever I got home almost the first thing out of my wife's mouth was "I'm so tired" or "I don't feel well.", and I'm talking withing minutes of getting home. I don't doubt the legitimacy of her being tired or not well, but when I stopped suggesting sex and started occupying myself elsewhere, I never heard those comments. NEVER. It was like she said "OK, I don't have to make excuses for not having sex tonight."
> 
> We got back on track after a while and after a couple of weeks, I started hearing those comments again.


Yup, and that happened quite a bit to me before my ex simply bailed out (after lining up another sucker).

That's what bothers me about these recommendations to put sex on the back burner while rebuilding the relationship. That strategy is fine if the connection is really the problem. But it seems more and more like some women simply dislike/resent being seen as sexual beings at all. They don't see a need for sex and any sort of high drive is automatically interpreted as "he does not love me, but is just using me".

I'm also interested to see how these trials at reconnection are going. Eventually, the answer to relationship maintenance is more sex; interested to see how many of these trials actually get there.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

These sexless zombies still have to have a roof and eat, so they come out of their crypt and kidnap a heterosexual. As long as they get whatever marital benefits they are looking for, their partner can jolly well get bent. Don't want to be seen as a sexual object? Truth be known, after a few years of shoving your husband away, it's probably easier for him to imagine just about any other woman on earth in a sexual situation. Nobody drops their bucket down a dusty, dry well forever.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Chris Taylor said:


> When I went into my self-imposed sexless marriage for about 10 weeks, I saw a funny change in my wife.
> 
> Before, whenever I got home almost the first thing out of my wife's mouth was "I'm so tired" or "I don't feel well.", and I'm talking withing minutes of getting home. I don't doubt the legitimacy of her being tired or not well, but when I stopped suggesting sex and started occupying myself elsewhere, I never heard those comments. NEVER. It was like she said "OK, I don't have to make excuses for not having sex tonight."
> 
> We got back on track after a while and after a couple of weeks, I started hearing those comments again.


Same here. First thing out of her mouth after coming home is Im tired. Or Im sooooo tired. BS. Everybody is tired and most women find the desire to still have sex with their husband.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> These sexless zombies still have to have a roof and eat, so they come out of their crypt and kidnap a heterosexual. As long as they get whatever marital benefits they are looking for, their partner can jolly well get bent. Don't want to be seen as a sexual object? Truth be known, after a few years of shoving your husband away, it's probably easier for him to imagine just about any other woman on earth in a sexual situation. Nobody drops their bucket down a dusty, dry well forever.


This is a beautifully worded post.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Nobody drops their bucket down a dusty, dry well forever.


Or down a dusty, dry vajayjay.

Seriously though, you are absolutely correct. I understand not wanting to be seen as _just_ a sexual object. But those people who don't want to be seen as sexual beings at all simply don't get marriage (at least not Western marriage) and should stay single.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Chris,
IME you can't force someone to do something they dislike. You have a short list of choices:
1. Accept status quo
2. Find out HOW to make it more enjoyable for them
3. Give them the option of opening the marriage if they don't wish to do (2)

It is true that (2) requires their cooperation. Also true that there is a simple way to have that conversation. Goes like this: The amount of effort you put into avoidance makes it painfully clear you don't like it. If you aren't willing to tell me, I will assume that it is something you believe isn't fixable/changeable. Either a physical thing - you don't find me attractive - or core behavioral stuff that's unchangeable. I don't want you to do something you dislike, so choosing to decline this conversation means: You "cannot" like sex with me. To take the pressure off you/us we then go to option 3. 

The thing is - most folks are either willing to have this convo or they are not. Those who are, have it early in the marriage. The rest never have it. 

If my W started "positioning" to avoid sex as soon as I got home each day, I would flat out ask her what is wrong. Not "fatigue" wrong. Sex wrong. 




Chris Taylor said:


> Unfortunately, people define "two way street" differently. I think my wife sees it that she dis the housework, handled the kids, etc... and that was her contribution to me. My contribution was to bring home a pay check, provide food and housing and give her the non-sexual intimacy she wanted. No amount of discussion ever seemed to change that.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I can load the dishwasher and I can clean house. If I don't feel like doing either, I can pick up the phone and hire someone. I won't have to give them half my past, present, and future possessions for their little chores, either. I won't owe them sexual and emotional fidelity, just a few bucks. I don't have to be dragged around Bed, Bath, and Beyond by an employee of Merry Maids. If she wants her contribution to your life to be dishwashing and housecleaning, divorce her and then she can put in her resume' and maybe you'll give her an interview.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Un, 
One aspect of this type of board is that it provides a vehicle for redirected anger. For a guy who frequently recommends, a 'divorce the bltch', response you sure seem afraid to upset your wife. 

Seems like you want all these other folks to punish their wives for what yours does to you.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

So people want to maintain their life partnership, even if it deviates from the storybook marriage all the self-help literature tells us we simply must have.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Hey all...

I don't know why I decided to post as I've avoided TAM for months but reading these sad stories just wants to make me comment to try to help some of you.

The fact is its always something! 

It really is.... I'm convinced everything now has to be perfect for my wife and I to have sex again. Its gotten pretty bad because frankly I've given up... I just don't try to change things. YOu can only go so long then you just stop. Its both of us..obviously my stopping trying has an effect as does her whatever her issue is (Still haven't figured that out).

The benefit is you "mostly" get your old life back. Only occasionally letting it bother you. This is a real assessment of my current state....as you can tell I haven't been around TAM and am mostly back to my self. I'd say 99% of the time. 

My wife had a rash of injuries... so physically she is somewhat limited... knee toes etc. That combined with me essentially giving up trying to fix anything means we are in a Loooong dry spell as in 0 so far in 2012.

Is it all bad no... she does seem to be coming around somewhat back to me. Hopefully as she heals and gets through the holidays (her busy time) perhaps 2013 will be the start of something new.

Its a crapshoot.... there is no "good" solution. It either will improve or it won't... I've learned to just take it one day at a time. I'm mostly OK most of the time after almost three years of this. Guess you just learn to cope. If that helps others to see where these things can go great. 

I firmly believe it'll resolve when it resolves. Then we will be better and unlikely to revisit sexlessness again. From what I've read in the past most of this takes three to four years to cycle through so hopefully my "sentence" is almost over. 

I don't think talking or whining helps... getting back to normal, not putting up with any disrespect and good old time..helps.

A good female friend/mentor told me one thing I now live by six months ago...

"Don't talk about the relationship UNLESS she brings it up first" 

Funny today my wife asked me, "Why are you spending so much time on your laptop?"
I told her what I was "mostly" doing which is studying for an exam for my industry..true.
Funny thing is she was very talkative and engaging with me after all day.

Women sense when their man is drifting away ( I wasn't technically drifting just re-allocating my time towards me). They start to worry. Anyhow just played it cool all day and am letting her come back to me... time for her to work on it.

It's been over six months of no talk about any "heavy stuff" even six months ago we talked (she was texting another male way too much) I had no pleading, just facts and she even told me... she saw "my side"...she saw my point! I told her thanks and just went back to being "normal" . I essentially stopped any re-building efforts since last November... we'll see where this goes. 

I look at it as a marathon not a sprint now. I'll let you all know once we get this thing repaired. I will not be a regular on TAM...too depressing.



Good Luck all.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Trying, 
I hope you keep giving updates since you are the poster child for a man who is willing to be used for his paycheck open ended. 

You have followed the 'tough talk', 'frightened walk' path for 3 years now. At some point your story will be an excellent case study of long term (permanent) marital Sexlessness.


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## HDsocal (Nov 19, 2010)

SMacMe said:


> He is "turned on" and wants to have sex with me even if I'm not interested or even "participating." It is like he "needs" to have sex, and it's okay if I just sort of lay there passively. So I feel used.


needing to have sex, with his wife isn't the same as just needing a release. We can do that by our self. Laying there passively is in a lot of ways worse than just saying no. Pity sex, or duty sex will make him resent the relationship.


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## 99RedBalloons (Aug 16, 2012)

Yeah but if you say "no" then it means you are a horrible, horrible human being.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

99RedBalloons said:


> Yeah but if you say "no" then it means you are a horrible, horrible human being.


LOL, kind of overly dramatic...Saying no everyday for months makes you a "horrible, horrible" spouse.


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