# Wife thinks sex is for animals - celebral type - no feminine energy



## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

*Wife thinks sex is for animals - cerebral type - no feminine energy*

My wife is a slightly dismissive avoidant person, cerebral (intellectual) type, who doesn't need intimacy and thinks sex is only a bestial part in people leading to a lot of evil in the world. So she thinks it's bad and that superior people should just have a sexless life. Linked to this approach my wife prefers not to dress up and not to show her femininity. I can't even tell her she's sexy.

In the beginning of our relationship my wife was different. She used to dress up, we had great sex.

I have to admid my insecure personality (somewhat anxious preoccupied) wasn't really helpful. I may have pushed my wife away from me. Luckely I managed to improve my self esteem and feel much more confident now. I've read parts of No more Mr nice guy, the 180 degree rule, receiving love, mating in captivity, she comes first etc. Important in all is these is being a man, with confidence, doing your own stuff etc.

The 180 degree was helpful and since I've adopted this theory my wife is more respectful to me. But still no intimacy.

I'm now reading How to be a 3% man, about masculine and feminine energy. I can understand that if a man shows his masculinity, the woman can become more feminine. But what if the woman doesn't show any interest in the man? What if the woman is more masculine? I haven't found any answers for that in this book.

Since sex is important for me, this lack of intimacy and sexuality is a big deal for me.

Apart from leaving my wife, what advice could you give me? Any books to suggest?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

More information needed:

How old are you and your wife (approximately)? 

How long have you two been married?

Any children still living at home?

Aside from the sex issues, any other past/present marital problems (infidelity, financial, parenting, mental health)?

In general, women don't go from this:


Freetown said:


> In the beginning of our relationship my wife was different. She used to dress up, we had great sex.


to this:



Freetown said:


> My wife is a slightly dismissive avoidant person, celebral (intellectual) type, who doesn't need intimacy and thinks sex is only a bestial part in people leading to a lot of evil in the world. So she thinks it's bad and that superior people should just have a sexless life. Linked to this approach my wife prefers not to dress up and not to show her femininity. I can't even tell her she's sexy.


without cause. When did this change happen?


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

You're right about the questions, Lila.

We 're almost 40 and together since approx 15 years, and married 10 years ago. 2 wonderful kids going to elementary school. 

No major issues, apart from difficulties to getting pregnant. 
My wife lost her mother as a teenager. She's very intelligent and has a strong personality. 
I tend to lack confidence and have been somewhat neurotic (e.g. demaning with regards to dresscode, not taking any risks). I was an underperformer (compared to my succesful wife) and tried to compensate this by pleasing my wife as much as possible.

Since a couple of years I won confidence and tried not to depend on my wife. I m still there for her if she needs me, serve dinner, do a lot of household jobs, but I no longer obey everything she asks me.

Sex went down gradually, but according to my wife she exctually never really liked it. She says it were just hormones that got her into sex the first years after we met. She never had sex before we met either.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Freetown said:


> Apart from leaving my wife, what advice could you give me?


This is unlikely to improve in any way no matter what you do. *Convince her to leave you!*

Keep telling her and showing her how important sex is to you, how much you desire her, and persist.

Also, since she was once sexual, and now apparently has no interest in sex - at least with you - are you sure she's not cheating?


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

She sounds like a miserable person.
Are you still in love with her?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Freetown said:


> You're right about the questions, Lila.
> 
> We 're almost 40 and together since approx 15 years, and married 10 years ago. 2 wonderful kids going to elementary school.
> 
> ...


Your words:
*No major issues, apart from difficulties to getting pregnant. 
According to my wife she actually never really liked sex. *
..........................................................................................
These two sentences explain it all.
She had sex for that length of time until she got her babies. She wanted babies. Sex is the only way she could get them.
She said she never really liked sex.

I guess you are screwed... uh, are going to remain 'mostly' celibate.
You don't want to get divorced.
She likely sees no reason to change.

Your' only hope is to tell her that the lack of sexual intercourse and intimacy is a deal breaker for you.
That you will eventually ask for a divorce. And that you will be 'forced' to find a women who enjoys sex and intimacy.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

It's one thing to not like sex. It's abnormal, but sure, some people are just that way. It's quite another thing to be in a marriage or friendship and _completely dismiss your partner's needs_. A cerebral type would be able to read a book and understand that some people, in fact most people, _need_ a sexual relationship as part of a healthy marriage. Someone who doesn't understand or accommodate his/her partner's needs is not suited to be in a relationship. Have you expressed your needs to her?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

If she's never liked sex, there's pretty much nothing you will ever be able to do that will start making her like it. The self help books might be good for you in the long run, but not as a way to improve your sex life or marriage. 

If she truly thinks sex is beneath her as an enlightened human being, surely she won't mind you taking a mistress, right?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

you got to do it like they do on the discovery channel!


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Freetown said:


> My wife is a slightly dismissive avoidant person, celebral (intellectual) type, who doesn't need intimacy and thinks sex is only a bestial part in people leading to a lot of evil in the world. So she thinks it's bad and that superior people should just have a sexless life....
> 
> In the beginning of our relationship my wife was different. She used to dress up, we had great sex....
> 
> ...


I suspect that there is more to the story than you have told us, since at one time she seemed to enjoy sex, but yes I have two book suggestions that should appeal to your cerebral wife. 

(1) Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight; It is a scholarly book about the importance of touch to all mammals and especially human beings. It sites many studies on everything from baby monkeys, to premature human baby death rates when held or not held in hospitals & orphanages. If she really is cerebral it should make her understand that we are all social creatures and need to be touched and share intimacy.

(2) David Schnarch's book the Passionate Marriage; It is harder than most graduate school textbooks I have every read. It is a really hard read, but full of very challenging information on how two people relate to each other in a marriage. If she is half as cerebral as you say, it just might shake her up enough to understand that marriage is the hardest thing two people can do as it is a people growing machine where both are constantly evolving and needing to renegotiate the things they do for each other as they emotionally grow.

Schnarch's latter books have some absolutely mind blowing insights, like marital sadism, where one spouse finds pleasure in emotionally torturing the other, that most couples are too afraid of intimacy to really enjoy close sex, and that most couples communicate far better than most marriage counselors will ever acknowledge.......

You have read some important books so far. I want to congratulate you on making such a commitment to self-improvement and trying to save your marriage.

Good luck.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agree with others. If she doesn't want to want sex, then you have no hope of a happy sex life. If you have explained that sex is important to you and she still doesn't want sex, then you have the standard options:

Leave, Cheat, Live like a monk. 

Those choices suck, but they are the choices you have. 

I strongly advise against waiting / hoping it will get better. It won't. 


There are also men who never want sex. I think you both would be happier if she was living with someone who shared her ideas about sex, and you did the same.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It has absolutely zero to do with her "enlightenment" that sex is beneath her. 
Apparently she IS smarter than you, though, if she's actually made you believe that horse ****. I've heard some pitiful excuses, but this has to be the stupidest. 

It has everything to do with one of two choices:
1 she duped you and doesn't want sex with anyone.
2 she wants sex, but not with you.

Either one is a deal breaker for me and I'd be off to the races finding another woman after divorcing the cold hearted snake you married.

You are not a beast because you like sex, you're a healthy man.
Screw her. Well, **** her. I mean, tell her to go stick it up get rear.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Freetown said:


> Apart from leaving my wife, what advice could you give me? Any books to suggest?


She' an intellectual; how many books is she ordering off of Amazon and how many relationship forums is she posting on to learn how to be a better lover and to meet your needs for intimacy better???


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Learn to be more assertive or accept this situation.

Learn to be okay with allowing her to be uncomfortable in not having her needs met when she is clearly okay with allowing you to.

"Wife, my desire is to be in love with and married to someone who is sexual. If that is not you, I accept it and will immediately set about to end our marriage fairly and equitably. Your actions from this point forward will tell me my trajectory."

Then walk away. She wants to debate it? She wants to get mad? She wants to threaten? Shrug shoulders and tell her that until she reengages in a sexual relationship, there is nothing to discuss because there is no relationship.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I.am going to get cuss out here...but since you know that your wife thinks sex is a lower animalistic behavior...then, quietly inform her .....that you will be taking on a mistress ...you know to be an animal.

.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Sounds like you might have married my first XW!

No one deserves that kind of hell!*


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

,


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Freetown said:


> You're right about the questions, Lila.
> 
> We 're almost 40 and together since approx 15 years, and married 10 years ago. 2 wonderful kids going to elementary school.
> 
> ...





SunCMars said:


> Your words:
> *No major issues, apart from difficulties to getting pregnant.
> According to my wife she actually never really liked sex. *
> ..........................................................................................
> ...


*Do you remotely know what it’s like to be having sex with a spouse who doesn’t want you engaging that activity with them? They writhe around and grit their teeth and almost give you the vaunted impression that you’re raping them or they lay there motionless like some plastic blowup doll, never touching you and imploring you to “hurry up and get off!”

This is the very same woman who often woke me up at 3AM to force-screw because her temperature was right for her to get pregnant! As soon as I was done, I was told not to cuddle and to go back to sleep kind of like someone throwing out the garbage! I absolutely resolved myself to never go back to that non-humanistic existence again!

Makes a naturally, loving, sexually healthy man want to lose a perfectly good erection, and want to be 10,000+ miles away!

How would I know? Just ask my very first XW!

But conversely, she was certainly good enough to shave her cootchie, something that she never willingly did for yours truly, and then bang her VP boss’ boxcar on a consistent basis for a rather large promotion and raise! 

It greatly makes me wonder if she gritted those same teeth of hers whenever he stuck it in? *


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Freetown said:


> My wife is a slightly dismissive avoidant person, celebral (intellectual) type, who doesn't need intimacy and thinks sex is only a bestial part in people leading to a lot of evil in the world. So she thinks it's bad and that superior people should just have a sexless life. Linked to this approach my wife prefers not to dress up and not to show her femininity. I can't even tell her she's sexy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Is her name Beverly Hofstadter by any chance? (Big Bang theory). What’s wrong with animals having sex anyway? We are all 99% similar to chimps, might as well embrace it.

Would she be open to run some hormone tests? Could be an imbalance if it changed suddenly like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> I suspect that there is more to the story than you have told us, since at one time she seemed to enjoy sex, but yes I have two book suggestions that should appeal to your cerebral wife.
> 
> (1) Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight; It is a scholarly book about the importance of touch to all mammals and especially human beings. It sites many studies on everything from baby monkeys, to premature human baby death rates when held or not held in hospitals & orphanages. If she really is cerebral it should make her understand that we are all social creatures and need to be touched and share intimacy.
> 
> ...


Thanks for each of you's feedback and thanks for the book suggestions, Young at Heart! We 've actually been in EFT-focused couples therapy, so we've learned about communication and each other's feelings. But too often my wife blamed me for everything that went wrong and we finally quit therapy. It did improve our relationship, but unfortunately not the intimacy. I'll have a look at Schnarch's books.

I have also read How to love (or leave) a dismissive partner, and I think this dismissive (and intimicy avoidant) attitude may be the key problem. It's just frustrating that some books, e.g. the 3% man, seem to ignore the fact that changing the man's behaviour will not always impact the woman's behaviour. 

Just asking her to be open for my sexual needs is not enough, I'm afraid. For almost 1 year she "allowed" me to have sex with her, every Sunday morning around 6.30. She gave me 5 minutes each time to do my thing. But this was not what I was looking for. 

Maybe it's naive of me to think that each one of us has a sexual drive, and that it's only a matter of unlocking this drive, that there is a fix for every problem. I'm eager to understand the cause of this problem and how it can be fixed. 

I do love her, she's a wonderful person. But hell do I miss intimacy.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I hate to sound like a broken record on this forum but I'm sorry, it sounds like you were a sperm donor.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Is her name B. H. by any chance? (Big Bang theory). What’s wrong with animals having sex anyway? We are all 99% similar to chimps, might as well embrace it.
> 
> Would she be open to run some hormone tests? Could be an imbalance if it changed suddenly like that.


No B.H., but at least there may be more people with her opinion.

She thinks that the world would be better of without these testosterons. Weinstein is not really helpful in that matter. 

Hormone tests could be an idea indeed, if the treatment is reasonable. When she didn't get pregnant she got to take some hormones that really increased her libido. She said she even had a moment where she even checked out every man she saw. She thought it was annoying and stupid.

What is the standard for women actually? I don't know it anymore. I've heard they often don't know or notice they feel aroused...


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Do you mean "cerebral"?
> How can a woman not have any feminine energy?


Cerebral indeed. Not sure what the best expression is for platonic love, an intellectual person that thinks sex is something stupid and dirty.

She definitely has feminine energy, but it's not driving her. On the contrary, it seems she's blocking it to avoid intimacy, but I'm not sure.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Freetown said:


> Cerebral indeed. Not sure what the best expression is for platonic love, an intellectual person that thinks sex is something stupid and dirty.
> 
> She definitely has feminine energy, but it's not driving her. On the contrary, it seems she's blocking it to avoid intimacy, but I'm not sure.


She really has you believing that bs, huh?

If you are satisfied with a wife who says "you've got 5 minutes" every Sunday morning and just lays there......,
Something is wrong with you, not her.

Until you decide it's not enough, there's little anyone here can say that will really help you,
The rest of your life with your wife, you're not ever really going to get to make love to a woman.
You know that, right?
I personally would not live that way if I weren't forced to by some physical handicap.

Your wife is not cerebral, she's cruel and UNLOVING.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife is not cerebral, she's cruel and UNLOVING.


She guaranteed me a million times she really loves me, but doesn't like intimacy. We've had some periods where we constantly fighted and then she clearly disliked me. It's way better now and I can see she does love me. But sex and intimacy is still out of the question.

Dismissives do not like intimacy, but still like sex. I could understand if my wife feels uncomfortable with cuddling and closeness, but she doesn't like impersonal sex either... she never fantasizes, ...

There were a few occasions where we she was passionate. Still not sure what got her aroused then.

Could be a lack of hormones indeed. Books will never fix that, I'm afraid.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Freetown said:


> When she didn't get pregnant she got to take some hormones that really increased her libido. She said she even had a moment where she even checked out every man she saw. She thought it was annoying and stupid.


Your wife has been open and honest. She doesn't like sex. She doesn't want to like sex. She participated in order to become a mother. At this point, you're the one with the problem because you seem to refuse to accept what she has told you in words and actions.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> Your wife has been open and honest. She doesn't like sex. She doesn't want to like sex. She participated in order to become a mother. At this point, you're the one with the problem because you seem to refuse to accept what she has told you in words and actions.


I know. That's why I'm reading books to see how this can be solved and I posted on this forum. 
Don't think she would be happy if I left her or if I started an affair. So in that way it's her problem too.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Freetown said:


> She guaranteed me a million times she really loves me, but doesn't like intimacy. We've had some periods where we constantly fighted and then she clearly disliked me. It's way better now and I can see she does love me. But sex and intimacy is still out of the question.
> 
> Dismissives do not like intimacy, but still like sex. I could understand if my wife feels uncomfortable with cuddling and closeness, but she doesn't like impersonal sex either... she never fantasizes, ...
> 
> ...


Stop listening to what she says. 

Rather, start watching what she does.

What do her actions tell you?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Freetown said:


> I know. That's why I'm reading books to see how this can be solved and I posted on this forum.
> Don't think she would be happy if I left her or if I started an affair. So in that way it's her problem too.


It is not her problem at all... Right now. It will continue to be your problem, and your problem only, until you are willing to apply pressure.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Stop listening to what she says.
> 
> Rather, start watching what she does.
> 
> What do her actions tell you?


Not sure what you mean with actions. She likes to do her own stuff, spends some time with friends (girlfriends) and some with me. She appreciates it when I listen to her and when I'm there for her and the kids. With regards to sex: nothing, no solo sex as far as I know. And she doesn't fancy anyone else.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Freetown said:


> I know. That's why I'm reading books to see how this can be solved and I posted on this forum.
> Don't think she would be happy if I left her or if I started an affair. So in that way it's her problem too.


For God's sake, she was already on hormones and found the experience of feeling sexual to be "stupid and annoying".

I don't think you're getting it. She doesn't want or need you to solve anything. She is happy with the status quo. Wrap your mind around it. She doesn't like sex and she doesn't want to like sex. Her opinions and feelings related to sex aren't something you can change. You can't solve this.

Of course she wouldn't be happy if you had an affair or left the marriage. However, I don't have too much sympathy for that. As an asexual, she should never have entered into a relationship, much less a marriage, with a man who is sexual.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> It is not her problem at all... Right now. It will continue to be your problem, and your problem only, until you are willing to apply pressure.


I agree with this, apart from the fact that this may not be the solution. She already said I can't force her to have sex, and then, when she would let me have sex with her there wouldn't be any intimacy. I've given her a deadline in the past, but that seemed not constructive at all.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> For God's sake, she was already on hormones and found the experience of feeling sexual to be "stupid and annoying".
> 
> I don't think you're getting it. She doesn't want or need you to solve anything. She is happy with the status quo. Wrap your mind around it. She doesn't like sex and she doesn't want to like sex. Her opinions and feelings related to sex aren't something you can change. You can't solve this.
> 
> Of course she wouldn't be happy if you had an affair or left the marriage. However, I don't have too much sympathy for that. As an asexual, she should never have entered into a relationship, much less a marriage, with a man who is sexual.


OK, I see your point. So nothing to solve on her side then. It's take it or leave it. That sucks.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Freetown said:


> I agree with this, apart from the fact that this may not be the solution. She already said I can't force her to have sex, and then, when she would let me have sex with her there wouldn't be any intimacy. I've given her a deadline in the past, but that seemed not constructive at all.


Your wife has literally told you she doesn't like sex, doesn't want to like sex, and that if she "let you" have sex with her it would be duty sex and devoid of passion or intimacy. She couldn't possibly be any more clear. Why are you having trouble accepting what your wife is telling you?

Of course your deadlines have been ineffective. You're still there. It's always a mistake to give a deadline or ultimatum and fail to follow through. What you've shown your wife is that you may huff and puff, but you clearly aren't _that_ bothered or you'd _do_ something. Your inaction tells her that the status quo is acceptable. In her mind, you're just venting because there has been no action taken.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Go have an affair. I bet she won't mind. She will actually be relieved that she doesn't have to have the pressure of having sex. Then once you finally get the balls to divorce her and share a bed with someone that wants your **** every night, then you'll finally be happy. Remember, only you can make yourself happy. You aren't happy right now. This isn't how your one and only life is supposed to play out.

Start by working out. Get in amazing shape. People are lazy. Be in better shape than 99% of the other guys out there and your confidence will go through the roof. Women will start noticing you. You'll start to realize there are other women out there that you can have. Ask yourself. "Is the ****ing I'm taking worth the ****ing I'm getting"? In your case, absolutely not!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Freetown said:


> Not sure what you mean with actions. She likes to do her own stuff, spends some time with friends (girlfriends) and some with me. She appreciates it when I listen to her and when I'm there for her and the kids. With regards to sex: nothing, no solo sex as far as I know. And she doesn't fancy anyone else.


Her actions towards YOU.

How she treats YOU.

How she prioritizes YOU.

How important YOUR needs are to her.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Freetown said:


> I agree with this, apart from the fact that this may not be the solution. She already said I can't force her to have sex, and then, when she would let me have sex with her there wouldn't be any intimacy. I've given her a deadline in the past, but that seemed not constructive at all.


Because your deadline was a lie, to both her and yourself.

If you laid out a deadline, then it passed, and you did not divorce, all you did was bluff and get called.

Never...ever...ever play brinkmanship unless you are willing to go over the brink.


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## RandomDude2 (Sep 12, 2017)

Unfortunately the notion that sex is somehow associated with 'goodness' is not as uncommon as one might think in this day an age. Some view sex only a 'necessary evil' just to procreate. This is not something that you can fix, it is something that she needs to work through in her head. The only thing you can so is provide her with the motivation to examine her view on 'sex and goodness' and 'self-confront'. If this comes from a place of religious upbringing then she will most likely need some trusted religious person to help her through this: a priest, minister, christian counselor...whatever. You need to stand up and tell her that this is a deal breaker for you, you need to be able to put your marriage on the line and mean it. Trust me it will not change unless you force her to confront it. It is not going to get any better, only worse. The sooner you push this issue the sooner your marriage can move forward.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

If you truly love someone physical connection and intimacy naturally follows. What is love without intimacy? I think it would be something more akin to appreciation instead of love although I've never been able to define love adequately for myself. I question OP's wife's actual feelings and also her mental/emotional state due to such an extreme opinion on sex.

At one point in my marriage I had to ask myself if I could stay in a marriage devoid of satisfying sexual intimacy, I thought love would be enough to carry me through it and decided to stay at that point. If other issues hadn't also played a role in the deterioration of my marraige I wonder if love would have been enough? I was physically attracted to him and wanted sex to be better but knew that it wouldn't get better. If things were still like that today without other issues being present I think I may not be considering divorce.

If OP's wife is physically capable of sexual intimacy and not suffering from something that makes sex painful or not possible or satisfying then I can see making the sacrifice for love but if not then it just seems cruel and mentally/emotionally off balance. I'm wondering if there are religious undertones to her belief system since she seems focused on sex being and/or creating sin in the world.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Don't have an affair. She will not see it as only sex. She will see it as an emotional betrayal as well as a sexual betrayal.

If you have an affair, you will have forever crossed the line to being an adulterer. Remain faithful...to yourself. 

Don't give her any more deadlines. Give her the divorce papers to sign.

What she did with you was classic bait and switch. She liked sex enough to trap you into marrying her. Then she liked it enough to have two children. Now she has what she wants, and she has cut you off.

If the two of you were having serious marital issues in several areas, and had she not tried to convince you that sex is base, and bad, I would have suggested the two of you need counseling. However in her mental state, counseling will not change her mind.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Hate to be THAT guy (again), but women like your wife make the absolute wildest affair partners. Snoop on her. You may be surprised at what you find.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

dadstartingover said:


> Hate to be THAT guy (again), but women like your wife make the absolute wildest affair partners. Snoop on her. You may be surprised at what you find.


No. Women who like sex, but not with their husbands, make the wildest affair partners. Women who don't like sex, at all, tend to avoid sexual affairs and, if they feel the need to stray, find strictly emotional involvement to be satisfying.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *
> This is the very same woman who often woke me up at 3AM to force-screw because her temperature was right for her to get pregnant! As soon as I was done, I was told not to cuddle and to go back to sleep kind of like someone throwing out the garbage! I absolutely resolved myself to never go back to that non-humanistic existence again!
> 
> It greatly makes me wonder if she gritted those same teeth of hers whenever he stuck it in? *


On your case in furry point.
Did you get her pregnant?

Did you give her six-foot-four boys? Or tall girls?

Or was it all for Naught.

You being Naughty. :grin2: 
She being Not-me. :surprise:


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> No. Women who like sex, but not with their husbands, make the wildest affair partners. Women who don't like sex, at all, tend to avoid sexual affairs and, if they feel the need to stray, find strictly emotional involvement to be satisfying.


All it takes is the right buttons to be pushed in the right combination, and the "asexual" partner is off to the races. 

I'll say it again: SNOOP.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

If you are sure your wife is trustworthy and there is nothing she is hiding then you have to be the one to change.

Seems like your wife has her own life with you at orbiting distance.

Maybe you can do the same back and get living life your way (with no affair on your side).

Get out, do your thing, find a new hobby, make new friends and just do what makes you and your kids happy.

Your wife should get as much attention as she is giving you - which is polite relations.

Good luck.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

I may have stated incorrectly that she doesn t like sex. She actually can enjoy it, and even watched porn when she had a hormone boost during pregnancy. But I think she just got to get this infantile view that is t dirty. She didn t have it in the past but may have set it up as a defence mechanism.

I believed she couldn t stand closeness and intimacy. As I told she seems a dismissive person and she doesn t open up or make herself vurnarable easily. She doesn t want me around too much and after a wonderful day together with the family instead of spending a beautiful evening as a couple she needs to be on her own. But on the other hand she makes much more money but shares it with me.

It s very interesting to hear about what it s supposed to be like. I believed a good sex life was something for some few happily married couples. 

I agree on the deadlines. I actually cancelled it before maturity to show my good intentions. And then we have 2 kids and I didn t want to be selfish.


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## drewg350 (Oct 14, 2017)

I had a similar problem, but I was more to blame, for never being around, treating her pretty ****ty for years, and basically ignoring her. When I decided I wanted to change, she was already "checked out" and wouldn't give me ****. Sure, she'd let me get her off, but she wanted no part of touching me. I'm only now convincing her that I'm a changed man, and I'm serious about becoming the man she married. While we've just started to work on our relationship, the steps I've taken have shown huge improvement on her part. She's all over me this last few day's, and giving alot of herself to me. I'm learning "a happy wife will do anything, and everything for you". Treat her bad, and she'll check out, cheat, leave you, or become completely numb and resentful. Are you sure there's not more history ??? Have you done anything really bad to her or hurt her severely in the past ???


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Freetown said:


> OK, I see your point. So nothing to solve on her side then. It's take it or leave it. That sucks.


Yes, it does suck very much. There are quite a few people here who are married to others with low or even seemingly non-existent sex drives. Your wife's level seems to be pretty extreme to the point of being asexual. There might be a period of a week each year that prolongs your hope, but this situation isn't going to change. As you're not ready to separate because of having two small children, you need to accept that your wife is never going to enjoy a happy and exciting sex life with you.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

dadstartingover said:


> All it takes is the right buttons to be pushed in the right combination, and the "asexual" partner is off to the races.
> 
> I'll say it again: SNOOP.


I think you need to check your definition of asexual. Certainly, there are women who claim asexuality to get out of having to have sex with spouses they aren't attracted to. There are also men and women who legitimately have zero interest in sex and there are those who find sex to be distasteful.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

dadstartingover said:


> All it takes is the right buttons to be pushed in the right combination, and the "asexual" partner is off to the races.
> 
> I'll say it again: SNOOP.


Yeah, but why bother? Whether she's legit asexual, or she's just faking so she can stay faithful to an affair partner--end result is the same. She's not going to sleep with OP. Stick a fork in it.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

drewg350 said:


> Have you done anything really bad to her or hurt her severely in the past ???


I may have been boring, insecure and neurotic and after having read parts of No more Mr Nice Guy I know I ve been too nice too. But nothing more than that. I feel more confident now and have more alpha now, but it hasn t really paid off.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Freetown said:


> I may have stated incorrectly that she doesn t like sex. She actually can enjoy it, and even watched porn when she had a hormone boost during pregnancy. But I think she just got to get this infantile view that is t dirty. She didn t have it in the past but may have set it up as a defence mechanism.
> 
> I believed she couldn t stand closeness and intimacy. As I told she seems a dismissive person and she doesn t open up or make herself vurnarable easily. She doesn t want me around too much and after a wonderful day together with the family instead of spending a beautiful evening as a couple she needs to be on her own. But on the other hand she makes much more money but shares it with me.
> 
> ...


What you describe sounds a lot like someone who may be on the Autism spectrum.

She may very well have had physical pleasure and even needed sex during her time on hormones when she was trying to conceive. That doesn't mean she liked sex. Think of it this way. You don't like scratching itches. You have to contort and stretch to reach the spot and it's a bother. You have an itchy spot on your shoulder blade. You want to scratch that itch because it's annoying you, it's distracting, disruptive, and you want the relief of it's absence. Scratching is a necessary evil, you have to do it to make that pesky itch go away. So, you scratch. That's what it's like to not enjoy sex, but be all jacked up on hormones and need sexual relief.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Freetown said:


> Thanks for each of you's feedback and thanks for the book suggestions, Young at Heart! We 've actually been in EFT-focused couples therapy, so we've learned about communication and each other's feelings. But too often my wife blamed me for everything that went wrong and we finally quit therapy. It did improve our relationship, but unfortunately not the intimacy. I'll have a look at Schnarch's books.
> 
> I have also read How to love (or leave) a dismissive partner, and I think this dismissive (and intimicy avoidant) attitude may be the key problem. It's just frustrating that some books, e.g. the 3% man, seem to ignore the fact that changing the man's behaviour will not always impact the woman's behaviour.
> 
> ...


Unless she is unhealthy physically in some way, she has a sex drive. How good are you at giving her orgasms?

How healthy are you? Do you work out?

Was she ever abused sexually?

She is wrong of course in regards to sex being lowly. People of all mental ranges can, and should, rock it in the bedroom.

She is simply turning it off mentally. Don't know her reasons but she doesn't have a healthy or brilliant outlook. 

Either that or she is just lying to you. 

I will say you come off as too wimpy. She let you have sex for 5 minutes, one day a week?

Your acceptance of that pathetic offer says very bad things about you.

She is messed up but you might be worse.

Are you willing to change your life and put your foot down?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

you noted several times that your wife very intelligent...perhaps that is what she is attracted too...men, people who are intelligent and in engaging in conversation.
perhaps that is what you need to build...take classes read books, join a book club, build that gray matter.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Freetown said:


> I may have stated incorrectly that she doesn t like sex. She actually can enjoy it, and even watched porn when she had a hormone boost during pregnancy. But I think she just got to get this infantile view that is t dirty. She didn t have it in the past but may have set it up as a defence mechanism.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She is right, of course sex is dirty. The dirtier the better.
My prime suspect is/are hormonal changes/imbalances. You said she went wild during pregnancy? Asexual people don’t do that. 
With all the advances in medicine, I can’t believe they still haven’t come up with a ‘I want to have dirty sex with my husband tonight’ pill.
As well as the male equivalent of ‘I really should unload the dishwasher once in a while’ pill.
Then all would be good with this world 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Freetown said:


> OK, I see your point. So nothing to solve on her side then. It's take it or leave it. That sucks.


No there isn't anything to solve on her end. This is who and what she is - at least in regards to you. Whether some other dude could get her hot or not remains to be seen.

(Side note: if finding out she was getting down with someone else would give you the motivation to take action, then go ahead and hire a PI or something and at least look into it)

But honestly, it doesn't really matter what you do, whether you stay and accept it or whether you leave or whether you get some on the side. 

She has zero desire for you and zero respect for you. You were her sperm donor and the guy that helps with the rent and helps with the kids. 

Assuming you'd be a supportive father whether you were in the house or a divorced dad, then then there is no impact to her whether you stay and live with it, divorce her or get some on the side.

Your actions are irrelevant her. You have no real meaning to her and she has no emotional or personal investment in you or your relationship.

In fact staying with her and trying to have a sexual relationship with her is probably what has the most negative impact on her. 

I am sorry about that, but that is the reality.

My advice is stop whining and begging. Stop trying to get in he knickers and stop pestering her.

And from there, do whatever else you want whether it is divorcing and starting from a clean slate, getting sex elsewhere, or simply doing your own thing.

You really don't mean anything to her. Start viewing her the same and conduct yourself accordingly.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> On your case in furry point.
> Did you get her pregnant?
> 
> Did you give her six-foot-four boys? Or tall girls?
> ...


*Batted 2 for 2 before being unceremoniously sent off to the urologist for snipping!*


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You've mentioned a number of times that she did not have sex before you.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe she was virginal because no other man would have her because of her attitude towards relationships and sexuality and the way she was treating them?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> What you describe sounds a lot like someone who may be on the Autism spectrum.
> 
> She may very well have had physical pleasure and even needed sex during her time on hormones when she was trying to conceive. That doesn't mean she liked sex. Think of it this way. You don't like scratching itches. You have to contort and stretch to reach the spot and it's a bother. You have an itchy spot on your shoulder blade. You want to scratch that itch because it's annoying you, it's distracting, disruptive, and you want the relief of it's absence. Scratching is a necessary evil, you have to do it to make that pesky itch go away. So, you scratch. That's what it's like to not enjoy sex, but be all jacked up on hormones and need sexual relief.


Awe, this just..

Just pops my bubble.

Just breaks whatever mold I place women in.
Whatever I think about their parts/pieces.

Them having an itch.
Me a stick, a relieving bone.
And no more.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Do you mean "cerebral"?
> How can a woman not have any feminine energy?




My oldest daughter is self-professed transgender — she has absolutely no feminine energy since starting testosterone injections


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

@Freetown - reading those books isn't enough. You have to implement them for them to work. What that could mean is ending the relationship if you are going down a path you aren't happy with and are sure that you can't fix things to get what you need from your marriage. If you follow 3% man, you'd see that CW left his first wife when he realized it wasn't working for him anymore. Really, what ACTION have you done to fix your situation after reading those books?


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> She may very well have had physical pleasure and even needed sex during her time on hormones when she was trying to conceive. That doesn't mean she liked sex.


You re right. Still I'm convinced she did like the good sex we had. And I miss it. I always believed she would open up again for passionate sex. I was only looking for the key.

My wife also says I ve ruined her sex life. I may not have been a don juan, but I don t want to take all the blame on me. I was her first partner and she never has/had solo sex. And I ve changed, fewer Mr Nice Guy.

The 5 minutes of impersonal sex never were a good thing. I imagine I was desperate. But it was either this or nothing.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

Bananapeel said:


> @Freetown Really, what ACTION have you done to fix your situation after reading those books?


Hold me thight - EFT: getting the global picture, more aware of my own insecurity and the impact on the relationship. I decided to go and see a therapist and feel more confident now. Best decision ever. I also tries to listen more and to communicate better (expressing emotions etc)

No more Mr Nice guy & Receiving Love: depend less on your partner - stand more on yourself. I got better on this, yet still a way to go.

She comes first and other: not to focus on orgasm, but let her feel comfortable and getting aroused. Not succesful, she doesn t get aroused and prefers quick sex without foreply anyway

Mating captivity: cf no more Mr Nice guy

How to love (or leave) a dismissive partner: gave her more space, tried to see her as a person having difficulties with closeness. Read about impersonal sex. Never discuss the sex after intercourse.

180 degree: do your own thing, live your own life without her but keep smiling. Tried this for a couple of weeks. Was the hardest of all these things. She got frustrated and sad and I wasn t laughing after some time. She did put more effort in the relationship afterwards.

...


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

This woman seems broken. Like, something happened to her you may not know about broken...


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

The way I view relationships is that each person gets to choose their own path in life. A relationship only works when both people are choosing the same path. Your wife obviously is on a different trajectory than you are. So it's up to you to give her the freedom to go on the path with you or stay the same and go on her own. You can't make the decision for her on what she'll do, but you can make the decision for yourself on what you'll accept and what action you'll take if your paths done align.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Freetown said:


> You re right. Still I'm convinced she did like the good sex we had. And I miss it. I always believed she would open up again for passionate sex. I was only looking for the key.
> 
> My wife also says I ve ruined her sex life. I may not have been a don juan, but I don t want to take all the blame on me. I was her first partner and she never has/had solo sex. And I ve changed, fewer Mr Nice Guy.
> 
> The 5 minutes of impersonal sex never were a good thing. I imagine I was desperate. But it was either this or nothing.


I went bridge jumping a few times. It was a hell of a rush. Wow! I really liked it. I have no desire to do it again.

What does she say you've done or failed to do that has "ruined her sex life"?


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> What you describe sounds a lot like someone who may be on the Autism spectrum.


My first thought too.

The OP describes many traits that are consistent with Autism in an adult female.

OP, try an internet search for female traits of aspergers. Let us know how many/few traits your wife displays...and which ones.

BT


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Freetown said:


> Not sure what you mean with actions. She likes to do her own stuff, spends some time with friends (girlfriends) and some with me. She appreciates it when I listen to her and when I'm there for her and the kids. With regards to sex: nothing, no solo sex as far as I know. And she doesn't fancy anyone else.


So you're good with a roommate?
Ok, carry on then.

I have no clue whatsoever why a man would tolerate a "marriage" that has zero intimacy. It's crazy.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She is enjoying it with her sex partner.

she is being true to him or her.

Does she believe in the Bible?

be one in marriage? i guess not.

she does not respect you or your needs. have you asked her if it is fine with her for you to get sex somewhere else?

(if it is okay , get it in writing.)

if you do not have anything like D that you are willing to do, then she stays the queen.

and you the joker. go get buff and spend more time on the 180. Tell her if this is a deal breaker, then it is a deal breaker.

might as well give her the D papers and move out.

sounds like she will be happy.

life is to short to live this way.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Your wife has been open and honest. She doesn't like sex. She doesn't want to like sex. She participated in order to become a mother. At this point, you're the one with the problem because you seem to refuse to accept what she has told you in words and actions.


This is a perfect example that the Truth really does hurt.
And something to say about Truth.

If her Truth is immutable and set in stone:

Then the Stone House that she created is the Stone House that she will live in.
Live in alone, without a loving man. Without arms to pull her in.

Without lips to brush and bump hers. 

Without a man- 
To bring in her groceries.
To mow her grass.
To fix that what is broke, to assemble that what is new.
To barbecue on the grill.
To accompany her to the theater, to her families parties.
To travel with her by car, by plane, by rail. She will travel alone.

Unless, unless...she finds a man without a sexual mission, without a map, a need to find and drive to her womb.

She will have none of these things.
A man to hold her against the storm, a man to accompany her to her tomb.
A man whose name is etched, additionally engraved on the tombstone that lies above her, a man who rests next to her.
For Eternity.

She lives for herself, that is her right.
She will die alone living with that hollow, cold sight.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Freetown said:


> Thanks for each of you's feedback and thanks for the book suggestions, Young at Heart! We 've actually *been in EFT-focused couples therapy, so we've learned about communication and each other's feelings. But too often my wife blamed me for everything that went wrong and we finally quit therapy. It did improve our relationship, but unfortunately not the intimacy*. I'll have a look at Schnarch's books.
> 
> I have also read How to love (or leave) a dismissive partner, and I think this dismissive (and intimicy avoidant) attitude may be the key problem. It's just frustrating that some books, e.g. the 3% man, seem to *ignore the fact that changing the man's behaviour will not always impact the woman's behaviour. *
> 
> ...



A few things.

Yes, Sue Johnson's EFT is one of what I consider the two best therapy approaches. The other is that developed by the the Gottmans out of Seattle. I am sorry that you and your wife stopped the EFT marriage therapy.

The only author I am familiar with who really spends time on the topic that one partner can change, but than might not trigger a change in the other spouse is MW Davis. Her Book the Sex Starved Marriage is excellent and I highly recommend it.

One of the things she stresses is that it often takes two to destroy a marriage and it absolutely takes two to save a marriage, although one can trigger changes that will get the other to change if the other wants to change. That sounds like the boat you are in.

You want to change the interpersonal dynamics in your marriage, but your wife hasn't signed on yet. M.W. Davis has some suggestions in what she calls "180's." The principal of a 180 is if something isn't working, try something completely different and see if that will cause a desired result. If it does, great provide positive reinforcement to see if you can't get it to happen again. If the 180 doesn't work, try another thing that you haven't tried before until you find something that produces a desired result.

I am sorry for the way that your wife treated you on Sunday mornings. That is horrible.

When it comes to your wife, I do think that you are naive. 

What I learned in saving my Sex Starved marriage was that my wife is really Low Desire when it comes to sex. She really likes sex, just not nearly as frequently as I do. Let me say that again, she really likes sex just not as frequently as I do. I could buy the best vibrator, get ripped abs, jacked arms, learn the most wonderful sex techniques in the world......she still wouldn't want sex any more frequent that maybe once a week to every week and a half. 

The hardest two lessons to learn where (1) that is who she is and she is not broken, and (2) I can't change that.

In fact David Schnarch would argue that my wife is not broken and doesn't need to be fixed. What needs to be fixed is our mismatch of libidos. The Gottmans would say that we have a gridlock issue dealing with sex and sexual frequency. Both have ways of suggesting negotiations and exercises so that a compromise can be reached.

Good luck.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Freetown said:


> The 5 minutes of impersonal sex never were a good thing. I imagine I was desperate. But it was either this or nothing.


How long did this go on? If this went on for very long, I can empathize with her. Once in a while is OK, but if it occurred on a regular basis, she probably felt used and cast aside which would eventually blow out any woman's fire.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

Freetown, the books can help you understand a little more about yourself and relationships BUT they do little to or for the other spouse. What I am implying is the books won't make it so YOU can fix the other person or the relationship you have with another person.

What I found out is if you do or have one trait or action your W doesn't like, that feeling of hers negates the 5 to 20 things you do correctly. I know, that information sucks big time. 

This sex thing, there is no way I know to be nice or gentle about it once things get to a certain point. It takes playing hard-ball with some serious stakes to hopefully change some things to the GOOD side of the ledger.

Young at Heart did it but most people just stumble along a rough and rocky path.

BTW, I have 20+ relationship books for sale, cheap. Just saying I had lots of hope while reading the books but little to show for it. Still, "No More Mr Nice Guy" was good for me because it focused on me and less on the relationship.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

@Freetown..

Is:

A man living free in some town in some state, in some nation.

Free to love.
Free to learn.
Free to choose.
Free to accept less than perfect.
Free to accept no sex.
Free to grow monstrous balls, the fluid backup becoming an issue. In size, in scope, in pride, insidiously undermining your pride. Undermining your biological purpose.

You were given a penis to pee out of. That you cannot, will not be denied. Lest you die, in three days to the minute.
You were given a penis to expel millions of seeds in a milky white fluid at regular intervals.

If you do not expel this elixir you will not die in three days, Nay. You will die, a day at a time.
When your heart continuously hears the pleas of your penis. Your heart will one day just stop.

Stop the madness.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

She could be in the closet

She could be cheating

She could be a sex abuse victim

She could be on the spectrum

She could be ocd

She could be bat $hit crazy


She could be your x wife


Or she should be your x wife

You decide.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Freetown said:


> I know. That's why I'm reading books to see how this can be solved and I posted on this forum.
> Don't think she would be happy if I left her or if I started an affair. So in that way it's her problem too.


All you're doing is making all these half-assed 'authors' of these lame self help books rich. Save your money.

Books ain't gonna solve your problem.

The fact that she clearly no longer sees you as a man is your problem.

I'd be willing to bet good money if she were in a situation where a charming, confident, attractive man was making her feel like the most beautiful woman in the room, she'd find that 'dead' sex drive of hers hurtling back to life at the speed of sound.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> All you're doing is making all these half-assed 'authors' of these lame self help books rich. Save your money.
> 
> Books ain't gonna solve your problem.
> 
> ...


This is something I fear indeed. My wife told me several times (not recently) that she thinks it s likely she will get to love sex again with another lover. That was painful.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Freetown said:


> This is something I fear indeed. My wife told me several times (not recently) that she thinks it s likely she will get to love sex again with another lover. That was painful.
> 
> Update: I have told my wife about this conversation since she told me a sexless marriage is normal if you have young children. I just reminded her about the above comment she made some time ago and my wife replied that she doesn t find me attractive indeed and thinks my clothes are old fashioned. A couple of months ago she told me she found me attractive but that may have been a lie.
> 
> ...


Dude!! 

What more does she need to do or say here??

What more can we say???

You have your answer. 

Now it's up to you to decide what you're going to do. 

Yes it sucks that you've burned up 15 years with this person, but the only thing that will suck worse than burning up 15 years is if you burn up 15 years and a day.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Freetown said:


> This is something I fear indeed. My wife told me several times (not recently) that *she thinks it s likely she will get to love sex again with another lover.* That was painful.


omg. Get out of this relationship. That is emotional abuse at its worst.
You clearly should have been gone a long time ago. 
NO man should allow that to be said by his wife.
File. Either now, or she will after she takes a liver with more to offer financially.
Good chance she's already got a lover.

If she ain't givin it to you...,,,,,,,,


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

She's not even trying to hide her disdain for you.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Freetown said:


> This is something I fear indeed. My wife told me several times (not recently) that she thinks it s likely she will get to love sex again with another lover. That was painful.


On this statement alone, your sex life is over. She is willing to have sex with someone else, but not you. Time to let her go free so she (and you) can have sex with another lover.

And next time, no 5 minute quickies, except rarely.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> What you describe sounds a lot like someone who may be on the Autism spectrum.
> 
> She may very well have had physical pleasure and even needed sex during her time on hormones when she was trying to conceive. That doesn't mean she liked sex. Think of it this way. You don't like scratching itches. You have to contort and stretch to reach the spot and it's a bother. You have an itchy spot on your shoulder blade. You want to scratch that itch because it's annoying you, it's distracting, disruptive, and you want the relief of it's absence. Scratching is a necessary evil, you have to do it to make that pesky itch go away. So, you scratch. That's what it's like to not enjoy sex, but be all jacked up on hormones and need sexual relief.


And potentially a High Functioning Asperger's, perhaps? (Especially the candid honesty that is like a kick in the guts but wasn't intended in that way.)

There are other people who have fractured and unusual views of sex and sexual relationships. Child Sex Abuse survivors and rape survivors. 

Combine several of those elements and problems can abound.
@Freetown has your wife been in therapy? Have you?

I think individual and couple's counselling will potentially be of benefit.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Freetown said:


> This is something I fear indeed. My wife told me several times (not recently) that she thinks it s likely she will get to love sex again with another lover. That was painful.


Wow, wow. 

That and the 5 minute Sunday mornings are beyond painful. The Gottman's indicate that one of the 4 primary signs of a failed marriage is disdain and lack of any respect.

If that happened to me, I would tell her that you deserve better and that you love her so much, you don't want to stand in her way of finding sexual love with a new husband so you will get an attorney to draw up divorce papers. 

I am usually very pro-marriage.

Good luck.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

And there you have it. 

Your partner has checked out. Men are always in awe of the open disdain their wife can have after she has checked out of the relationship. I've heard some jaw-dropping AWFUL stories from men. The worst kind of emotional abuse from the women who just weeks before professed undying love and devotion. Then the switch is flipped and he catches her spitting in his drink... or making fun of his disability to friends... or flat-out saying that the guys at the gym turn her on, but not him, etc. 

The woman just wants the man to pull the trigger and say "I want a divorce." She then gets to go and have the life she feels she deserves... and still be able to hold their head high and say "HE asked for the divorce, not me." 

Also, enough with the asexual and autism talk. Seriously. Come on, people. That's such a small portion of the population. Approximately 1% of the population are truly asexual. His wife just doesn't want him anymore. End of story. It's not complicated. It sucks and it's hard to come to terms with.. but it's reality.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

Since my last post I've thoroughly discussed the topic with my wife. 

She replied:
- she was convinced our situation was normal for couples with young kids, but understands now it s not.

- she does love me a lot and would be lost without me. She said she ll so her best to do attack this problem

- sex has been painful for a couple of years (she loved it in the beginning, then she started to have less fun, then it became a struggle (partly due to the difficulties to getting pregnant) and so on). 
She explained the discomfort made her to dislike and to condemn sex but she proposed to go to a sex therapist to get to love sex again.
I appreciate this willingness but I m not convinced a sex therapist can fix this. 
She also plans to read Mating in capitivity or other suggested books.

- since I had a lower selfesteem (I got more confidence the last years) she didn t want to criticize the way I m dressed. She explained me she d rather see me with a more modern look


Before I started this topic I wasn t sure our situation was normal. Now I know it isn t and I hope my wife won t forget that.


What is the root cause of all of this? Not sure. My wife is OK as a person, maybe somewhat sensitive and I believe lacking confidence in close relationships. She prefers to keep people on a distance. My wife indeed checked out, physically. 

She assured me she wants to work on this - which I appreciate - but I m not sure if she ever will be able to love me the way I love her. 

The book How to love (or leave) a dismissive partner is pessimistic on the success rates and doesn t offer a lot of suggestions. No, take it or leave it. 

I will anyway have a look at the books that were suggested.

We ll see.

As said, I appreciate her willingness to work on the issue but it won t be a quick fix. And meanwhile, if I want to give it a try I shouldn t put any pressure. But that s though. My wife offered me to have sex with her, but she d just do it for me, and wouldn t enjoy it. So this wouldn t really help us.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Freetown, some of your story is very similar to some of my story.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

her "doing her best to attack the problem" is just a code for "i'm really going to do as little as possible to keep you on the hook".

good luck.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Kibbles to keep you in her web.

No substance behind her words. 

If you stay, it'll never get better.

" I hope to enjoy sex again with a new lover".
That is the truth. It should drive you to freedom from this person. She's keeping you down.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Freetown said:


> This is something I fear indeed. My wife told me several times (not recently) that she thinks it s likely she will get to love sex again with another lover. That was painful.


You should have dumped her right then and there. Those would probably be some of the last words my wife ever spoke to me. What you put up with... uggh..

The person who says this to their spouse is an ***hole. Plain and simple. It's not being cerebral or anything like that. They are a bully. You know how you stop a bully you punch them in the mouth. Not physically (I am not saying that). I am saying you stick up for yourself. Why do you want to be married to a bully?

If I had a dollar for the number of men who allow themselves to be bullied by women because they have this sexist idea that women are somehow little children and don't really know what they are saying or doing. Or that they are somehow emotionally inferior and therefore they can't be right when they know in there heart that their wives are ***holes. "My wife isn't and ***hole, it's just I don't understand her enough, I am not a good enough husband to her." You could be a crappy husband and you shouldn't be spoken to like that!

Take off your blinders man you are married to a jerk. Stop treating her like she is anything else. You don't need a book to tell you that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Freetown said:


> Since my last post I've thoroughly discussed the topic with my wife.
> 
> She replied:
> - she was convinced our situation was normal for couples with young kids, but understands now it s not.
> ...


And your sex life has improved?

Bring up what she said, see what she says about it. Ask her why you should bother. Tell her you better see a monumental effort of you can start separating your stuff now. Then tell her you are leaving for the weekend to think if you even want to try and just go somewhere. That is what I would do. Let her get used to being lost for a while.

One more thing I am convinced woman viscerally hate weak men. It's in their DNA. They want to fell safe, weakness, being a push over leaves them feeling unprotected. If you can't protect her she ends up feeling like she would be better off alone or with someone else. They absolutely lose respect for you if you don't stand up for yourself even to them.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

x598 said:


> her "doing her best to attack the problem" is just a code for "i'm really going to do as little as possible to keep you on the hook".
> 
> good luck.


Allow me to second this sentiment. Make sure that she is really working on the problem and not just throwing you some promises to stall for time. Set some goals and deadlines for reaching them. When she falls short (which she certainly will), read her the riot act and explain that you just moved one step closer to divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If PIV has been painful for her for "years", then how many doctors has she been to for evaluation and treatment?

How many medications or hormone therapies has she been on?

What types of lubes and creams and medicated ointments has she been prescribed?

How many specialist and therapists has she been to?

How much has she tried to show you what kind of techniques or activities or positions that work for her so she can have an active and pleasurable sex life while this is being explored and treated by physicians?

How often has she been giving you BJs and HJs etc while working in getting this condition resolved?

What has she actually DONE over the years to address and try to rectify this condition??

If she's so smart, one would think that an undiagnosed pain in a rather important part of the body would be a cause of concern and that an intelligent person would seek some kind of evaluation and treatment plan for it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Agreed. In case you haven't stated so, you need to tell your wife that your goal is to have a sex life you enjoy - not one that causes you frustration or is merely meh. Then you need to describe in detail what you need to reach that level.

She likely will keep trying to blame shift to you somehow. Your clothes are ugly (which is a horribly shallow excuse and likely not the issue at all), how can you insist on sex when she has so many problems (first parental stress, now pain, tomorrow)? And so on.

Preempt her and make it clear you won't accept excuses. Instead, you will push through whatever issues pop up and expect her to do the same.



Tatsuhiko said:


> Allow me to second this sentiment. Make sure that she is really working on the problem and not just throwing you some promises to stall for time. Set some goals and deadlines for reaching them. When she falls short (which she certainly will), read her the riot act and explain that you just moved one step closer to divorce.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

*Re: Wife thinks sex is for animals - cerebral type - no feminine energy*

So what is your plan? Have an affair? Get neutered? The Catholic Church is looking for Priests I hear. WAKE UP! File for divorce, don’t threaten go see a Lawyer Have papers drawn up and have her formally served. 


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

*Re: Wife thinks sex is for animals - cerebral type - no feminine energy*

DSO is correct you should take a long hard look at her activities, social network, hire a detective etc. but if you find it isn’t the sex but it is you what do you do. Most men would file for divorce but most men in your current position without any proof of another would also file for divorce. So why waste the time?


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

*Re: Wife thinks sex is for animals - cerebral type - no feminine energy*

I just now read the line “ My wife says I ruined her sex life”. Explain that plese


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

*Re: Wife thinks sex is for animals - cerebral type - no feminine energy*

Painful sex? There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. I suppose if you put her on her knees she suddenly gets a tooth ache?..... Man are you ever being Played. I have been reading the various posts and also excerpt of your letter and it makes me angry mostly because I have gone thru same crap from time to time in my life. When it happened to me .....well I am well known for setting bridges on fire.
However it is a great feeling to be with someone knew that just plain can’t get enough of you......You should try that!


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

*Re: Wife thinks sex is for animals - cerebral type - no feminine energy*

Someone “NEW”


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

What specifically does she mean by: sex has been PAINFUL for a couple years?

If you don’t solve the painful part - there is no chance of repair





Freetown said:


> Since my last post I've thoroughly discussed the topic with my wife.
> 
> She replied:
> - she was convinced our situation was normal for couples with young kids, but understands now it s not.
> ...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*Re: Wife thinks sex is for animals - cerebral type - no feminine energy*



David51 said:


> Painful sex? There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. I suppose if you put her on her knees she suddenly gets a tooth ache?..... Man are you ever being Played. I have been reading the various posts and also excerpt of your letter and it makes me angry mostly because I have gone thru same crap from time to time in my life. When it happened to me .....well I am well known for setting bridges on fire.
> However it is a great feeling to be with someone knew that just plain can’t get enough of you......You should try that!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




But...the ‘new’ eventually and inevitably becomes ‘old’...
what then?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Make excuses and read all the books you want. Shes not attracted to you and you by your acceptance of this has enabled her further.

You have three choices:
Continue to live the life of a sexless doormat
Divorce her
Open your marriage and get a girlfriend

I'd choose two 

In the meantime you'll probably wallow in this for awhile hoping, praying that she'll change but alas that's not gonna happen


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Reality: when a woman stops having sex with her man and says it hurts, but she'll probably like sec again with a new lover......

The smart money is on walking out and leaving her to the new lover. She'll likely leave him sexless as well.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

*Re: Wife thinks sex is for animals - cerebral type - no feminine energy*



David51 said:


> Painful sex? There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say.....



:surprise:

Major rule: be nice to the pu$$y and it will be nice to you.......don't ever skin it, maybe shave it with her permission but don't skin the pu$$y.:wink2:


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## kenyaone (Jan 26, 2017)

Freetown said:


> My wife is a slightly dismissive avoidant person, cerebral (intellectual) type, who doesn't need intimacy and thinks sex is only a bestial part in people leading to a lot of evil in the world. So she thinks it's bad and that superior people should just have a sexless life. Linked to this approach my wife prefers not to dress up and not to show her femininity. I can't even tell her she's sexy.
> 
> In the beginning of our relationship my wife was different. She used to dress up, we had great sex.
> 
> ...





oldshirt said:


> She' an intellectual; how many books is she ordering off of Amazon and how many relationship forums is she posting on to learn how to be a better lover and to meet your needs for intimacy better???


Good question. If you follow this route, you can determine if the blissful past you're pursuing is redeemable or not. A person is what he/she is and ascribes to.

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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

I 'm back again. My wife says some of the sex was painful because of the size, but since the size seems still normal to me I think it s because she wasn t really into having sex. She doesn t want any pressure, but does she want sex anyway?

Btw: no successtories on this forum apart from leaving or cheating her?


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Freetown said:


> Btw: no successtories on this forum apart from leaving or cheating her?


One of the few is Young at Heart, but that is his idea of a success. It would not be my idea of success. 

More importantly, read what you posted.

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Freetown View Post
*This is something I fear indeed. My wife told me several times (not recently) that she thinks it s likely she will get to love sex again with another lover. That was painful.*

*I just reminded her about the above comment she made some time ago and my wife replied that she doesn t find me attractive indeed. *

*the fact that she doesn t feel attracted to me may have impacted our sexlife. *

*You're right books won t fix that. If my wife doesn t like or fancy me and doesn t love me fysically, good sex will never be possible. Too bad I've lost all those years en energy.*


I honestly don't know how clearer anyone can make it for you. I even used your own words. 

She doesn't love sex with you.
She doesn't like sex with you.
She doesn't love you.
She may not even like you.
She most definitely doesn't respect you.
She barely shows emotions more than contempt.
She has stated *several* times about possibly liking sex again with other men. 

I don't know *any men* that would let that happen once without consequences 

I'm sorry, but there's no way around these facts.

Please have some self-respect and file.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Freetown said:


> Btw: no successtories on this forum apart from leaving or cheating her?


There are some accounts where a marital sex life improved. (what one would consider "success" is very subjective)

Those accounts followed a fairly consistent formula. 

- the couple had an active and healthy and vigorous sex life for a period of time earlier in their relationship. 

- something "happened". Either a medical condition that was diagnosed and effectively treated. A relationship issue that was addressed and corrected (often under the guidance of professional counseling or therapy) 

- The husband changed into a person that his wife could be attracted to - ie lost weight, gained muscle mass, dressed better, groomed and styled better, became more assertive and dynamic. Interacted more effectively with her on a personal level. 


In those cases the sex life showed improvement and *SOME* of the previous sexual chemistry came back. 

I'm not familiar with any instances where anyone transformed from a frigid, jerkish wife with a negative attitude towards sexuality and a general mentality of disrespect and disregard for her husband turned into a porn star and had hot, wild, monkey sex with her H all the time. 

Nor am I familiar with a case where a couple had an awkward and lackluster sex life early in their relationship that ever became high-energy and passionate.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I am a success story, to a degree. One day, I told my wife that I was giving up on ever being intimate with her again. I think something clicked in her head, like she knew this was a bad road to go down--that she'd taken things too far. Up until that point, I think she'd been lying to herself that she would eventually repair the dead bedroom. I was now taking that option off the table, or perhaps taking my power back. She begged for a chance to work on it, literally on her knees next to me while I sat at my desk. I told her it was too late, and at this point I just deserved to know the reasons. That's all I wanted: Just tell me what made me so unattractive. You're off the hook now, but just have enough respect for me to tell me what's wrong with me.

But she started initiating, which she'd never done before. Ultimately I couldn't resist her because I really love her and find her very attractive. We have been making love on a regular basis for many years now, but honestly she did a certain amount of damage that can never be undone. Don't let your situation go this far. Either resolve it now or move on. Don't let the situation sit in limbo for years like I did. The promises and excuses she's giving are empty. 

You know what's bestial? My Labrador Retriever, may he rest in peace. He loved to play fetch. Once we started playing, he never wanted to stop. I'd throw the tennis ball and he'd bring it back all dirty and slimy with slobber. I'd pick it up with my bare hand and throw the ball again. There's something particularly slimy about a dog's saliva, and after a few rounds the ball was soaked with this stuff mixed with dirt. It was disgusting to keep picking it up and throwing it. And fetch is a stupid, pointless game. But you know why I kept playing? Because I loved that dog. Even though I'm a highfalutin human intellectual like your wife, I stooped to my dog's level and participated in this bestial, primitive game with him. Yes, the game was stupid, repetitive, disgusting, but I never questioned his reason for wanting to play it, or dismissed his desire for it. I made sure I made time to do the things he wanted. I played the game because he loved it, and I loved him. That's the part your wife is missing. If she can't figure that out, it's time to move on.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*Re: Wife thinks sex is for animals - cerebral type - no feminine energy*



Freetown said:


> Apart from leaving my wife, what advice could you give me? Any books to suggest?


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