# Being a gentleman...



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Is it really important? :scratchhead:

I do care for my family, it's always in my mind how to improve each of our lives. And her burdens I like to carry on my shoulders. But I show my love differently, vastly different to the traditional "gentleman"... not only do I limit my lovey dovey affectionate words-of-affirmation but I tend to take the piss outta my wife. I don't with my kid - not yet, instead I just want my kid to grow up faster so me and her can take the piss outta mummy together! :smthumbup:

I also like it when she plays along with my jokes, and it's great fun to muck around... but other times, she accuses me of being insensitive. Especially when I keep poking her so she'll tell me what's bothering her. I don't hold back on telling her if I don't like a particular fashion, or hairstyle, or (in reference to another thread) - if she needs to tone up a bit more.

So as a result I hear "that's not very nice" from time to time =/
So... to be a gentleman? To be more sensitive? Most times she can take the joke and laugh and even crack one of her own and we end up play-fighting and even flirting. But I don't think before I say things most of the time with her, so meh...

"You are SOOO insensitive" :sleeping:


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## WindMountain (Oct 27, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Is it really important? :scratchhead:
> 
> I do care for my family, it's always in my mind how to improve each of our lives. And her burdens I like to carry on my shoulders. But I show my love differently, vastly different to the traditional "gentleman"... not only do I limit my lovey dovey affectionate words-of-affirmation but I tend to take the piss outta my wife. I don't with my kid - not yet, instead I just want my kid to grow up faster so me and her can take the piss outta mummy together! :smthumbup:
> 
> ...


You've asked "why be a gentleman?" ... now I ask you, if she doesn't like your jokes, what is holding you back from not pulling them? ... Why not be a gentleman?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gentleman:	

1. A chivalrous, courteous, or honorable man.
2. A man of good social position, esp. one of wealth and leisure.

A gentleman is someone of substance that can act above the norm. Usually welll educated. Education comes in many forms. There is honor and respect. One who accepts responsibily and takes ownership. Usually a person of some status. Again status takes many forms. I see a gentleman as an Alpha man with intelligence and certain Beta skills. Someone not afraid to intervene on another's behalf and dominate the situation and the opponent deftly.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Entropy3000 said:


> gentleman:
> 
> 1. A chivalrous, courteous, or honorable man.
> 2. A man of good social position, esp. one of wealth and leisure.
> ...


 I really had no idea that Gentlemen was associated with "noble birth" somehow, but Hey, you are right... I looked it up!


> 1. A man of gentle or noble birth or superior social position: "He's too much a gentleman to be a scholar"
> 2. A well-mannered and considerate man with high standards of proper behavior.
> 3. A man of independent means who does not need to have a wage-paying job
> 4. a man regarded as having qualities of refinement associated with a good family
> 5. a man who is cultured, courteous, and well-educated


I kinda looked upon it more as men with a "good heart" -plenty of those have blue collar jobs, may not be highly educated, but I would still call them gentlemen-cause of how they treat others in their life, whether it be women, family, co-workers, and friends. 

Random Dude....here is what I think.... It helps a woman feel especially loved to be "lovey dovey" on occasion, I think if you showed your wife this "*sensitive" *side of you just a little more so -- with some verbal affirmation --like the traditionalists / Romanticists , then maybe she would feel less of that urge to sling "insensitive comments" back at you. 

After all, what is her Love languages, in what order - maybe *verbal affirmation *is #2 or #3 on her list -we know what #1 is !! Possible ? 

I say these things because ....I sound a bit like your wife -alot of things you say I can identify with her thinking, being. I am one who appreciates "the mush", I eat it up and would likely feel like I was missing something in the relationship had he not possessed this side... 

But don't get me wrong....I also love & joke like mad when he tells me exactly what he thinks, that straight shooting -even if it may hurt -as you expressed here >>>


> . I don't hold back on telling her if I don't like a particular fashion, or hairstyle, or (in reference to another thread) - if she needs to tone up a bit more


I want that TOO ! I would even be upset if he tried to just say "nice" things to keep the peace when he felt otherwise, I have (seriously) told him ...."Piss me off!" -I want to hear what you REALLY think! I can handle it. And it seems your wife likes this too, as you said >>>


> Most times she can take the joke and laugh and even crack one of her own and we end up play-fighting and even flirting.


 --this is us too - and I wouldn't trade that for the world either, it is EXCITING, gets the juices flowing, we have a ball with it. 

The other night, my husband worked a double, walked through the door...I said "I have a good meal for you tonight"- he quickly shot back , without thinking ....."Oh did someone else make it ?" I hear one of the kids laughing in the other room. Now granted, he has a reason to say that, I am always trying to look out for HIS HEALTH -makes for some not so wonderfully tasting dishes. Ha ha Some women might get really offended by that -but not me . (Accually he didn't even mean it in a bad way, he knew I was at a friends house & thought maybe they gave me something to bring home). ..... I did give him a little "glare" -then mutter something about my pathetic cooking & :rofl: along with them all. I know when I cook what they like, they all love it & rave . I know I am still appreciated for the most part. 

It's all in fun. He says what is on his mind these days, I wouldn't want to pacify that for anything in this world. BUT if he never showed me that mushy side from time to time, ya know, I just might do what your wife IS doing ..... I might see him through different eyes somehow, and take it just a little bit more to heart . Make sense?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

If you are taking the p!ss out of somebody and they ask you to stop, you should most definitely stop. Unless of course you really do want their anger. If it’s your wife who’s asking you to stop then you’d be a fool to continue with it and get her anger. It’s got nothing to do with being a gentleman, more to do with not being a total arse!


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

In the south, here in the US, being a gentleman carries connotations of some of the positive points of our heritage. Historically, there weren't a lot of positives, but this was one. Because my grandmother was native american, but married to an old southern gentleman who owned the property near her people's land, my grandfather felt it to be his duty to teach us how to be gentleman, while my grandmother taught her spiritualism. Of course, now that I live in the snowy northern lattitudes, opening a door for a woman on a trip to Chicago taught me a whole new vocabulary of four letter words. But being a gentleman in the rural south was more about treating ladies with respect and courtesy. 

I often wonder if I've insulated my daughter too much though. She's never seen me raise my voice or use coarse language around her or her mother, so she's had a few surprises with boyfriends.

Many assume it to be demeaning to women, but if you consider that only the women often continued beyond the fourth grade in rural farm communities, it was more about elevating a woman's culture and education.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I would have no interest in guys opening car doors for me, that takes too much time, I am not that much of a Princess. I suppose the gesture is sweet, but I would tell him I like doing it myself -ha ha. I also like some "course bantering", I like debate and I like a good argument once in a while. If a man was "too polite" with me, I would get terribly bored with him. And he would think I was crazy -likely. I am too feisty for that. I am sure Random's dude wife is too ! Not that he needs to pee her off all the time- if it is bringing her to anger. 

I remember years ago, when I first met my husband, he had this one friend, the guy was so overwhelmingly full of compliments, "thank you maam's", "Yes Sir's", he would hold every door, you didn't even have to be his girlfriend. It was TOO much, he seriously annoyed me, I could not even imagine wanting to date someone like that. I used to make fun of him. 

I don't know how he got along in school like that! I am sure he never raised his voice to anything. Then this overly Nice Guy went to the Army, WOW.... was he ever different when he returned, that gave him a dose of reality I guess, I seen him through more "normal" eyes after that. 

I guess you can take anything too far, even being Polite & gentlemanly to where it is not "attractive". And of coarse, Randon Dude, if you are seriously causing her ANGER when you do what you do, I think you are probably going too far in the other direction. Balance - how very important and what works for our other half. 

Has your wife ever expressed to you --the things she LOVES about you -that she would never want to change ? 

And... if she could , the things she would desire from you ...personality/interactions wise?


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I would have no interest in guys opening car doors for me, that takes too much time, I am not that much of a Princess. I suppose the gesture is sweet, but I would tell him I like doing it myself -ha ha. I also like some "course bantering", I like debate and I like a good argument once in a while. If a man was "too polite" with me, I would get terribly bored with him. And he would think I was crazy -likely. I am too feisty for that. I am sure Random's dude wife is too ! Not that he needs to pee her off all the time- if it is bringing her to anger.


Not sure if you are referring to my post, but it sounds like you've confused being a gentleman with being a Nice Guy, or some sort of metrosexual guy who is putting on airs, which seems more common these days. The character of Rhett Butler is not too far off the mark of what it meant to be a gentleman. Banter and a dominating personality are expected, but it comes off as unintelligent to rely on four letter words or crass language. At least in my experience, being a gentlemen in the cultural sense was equated to being alpha, or self confident, yet with a heart of compassion. I also went to a traditional southern college, with thousands of beautiful southern bells. Fiesty interchanges were the norm..

Too many guys think that being a man is about contrasts between bad guys, or nice guys. Its about being 100% confident in who you are, having a moral code that you follow, and a sense of integrity. Also recognize that being very passionate with your wife is the last thing you'd ever want to be insecure about, or too ashamed to do. You don't need to butter women up or treat them like dainty princesses. You just respect them. My grandfather also reminded me that opening a door for a woman gives a great view of her a$$, also.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, my definition of "gentleman" in this topic is more just the "be nice and respectful to ladies", like no I don't give a crap if they find me brutally honest, but when it comes to my wife... bah!

Hell she's no lady herself, she's nuts, just as me! Bah! Hell I don't even stop her when she hits me physically out of fun or anger, I enjoy it too much. As for taking the piss outta her, the only time I don't stop when she tells me to is when she is pulling the silent treatment game, and I can't stand it, so of course I poke until she explodes (with hilarious and frightening results!). We always make up for it anyway.

Though, yeah, verbal affirmation. Guess sometimes she just wants to feel loved, cherished, and complimented and all the boring stuff... bah! Then again... hell she gets heaps already after emptying me out. Now she wants more? >.<

Darn it... come to think of it, this is an insecurity issue with her, and I guess my unstoppable fun-flirting ain't helping (or how I showed her I can still leave if she pushes it with my boundaries, or perhaps even my refusal to give her verbal lovey doveys?), heck this is a mess.

Still remember how annoyed she was at my refusal to "serenade" her, after she found out at work from my employees that I sing at work (the b-st-rd snitches! Should have fired the lot of 'em but can't afford to do that heh). FFS... why can't she see how much I really do love and adore her, but sure, I don't like this "needy" side of hers. I prefer her strong, that's who I fell in love with, a woman to stand side by side with.

Sometimes I feel she expects too much from me too... hell everyone does, I don't know why. Though I told her once, "WTF? you married a barbarian and you're expecting a knight?!" heh, though she replied that she wants both (guess that led me to the realisation women want it all). I'm a barbarian during the day, and a knight straight out of a fairy tale during the night after balls are emptied... yet she still whines.

BTW SA, lol! You're a strong type and I respect you for that, personally I reckon I'm the "husband from hell" considering people say women should marry stable, respectful, and lovey dovey husbands. I'm very stable, but respectful?...

That's a dilemma, I respect the woman I love enough not to see her as a weakling who can't take sh-t thrown at her... while her intepretation may be different. Guess that's why she told me I bring out the worst in her, I make her embrace certain of her "demons" so to speak.

Funny, this has been a problem with not just her but my last ex, she told me "I have everyone telling me one thing and now just you telling me another", when it came to standing up for herself and to hell with being a "lady". Darn it... >.<


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> Has your wife ever expressed to you --the things she LOVES about you -that she would never want to change ?
> 
> And... if she could , the things she would desire from you ...personality/interactions wise?


Yes, she expressed how free she feels with me. But she complains about the same crap she loves... bah! But yes, she wants more lovey dovey and less "macho"... pfft...



> Its about being 100% confident in who you are, having a moral code that you follow, and a sense of integrity.


=/ That doesn't fit my definition in this topic lol

As for my moral code, I f--ked up on that as soon as I married her. It's complicated interracial/intercultural/political BS. But I hold onto something else of my culture; meritocracy. You are WHO you are, not WHAT you are... though others have disagreed with me in my decision to marry the one woman who I ain't going to let go, just because of her background, which doesn't even define her as an individual.



> My grandfather also reminded me that opening a door for a woman gives a great view of her a$$, also.


:rofl:


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## DoYouWoo (Jul 19, 2011)

Agree that the 'gentleman' reference is misleading - it's more about you being an all-round nice guy, sensitive to how you make others feel and open to changing your behaviour to make them happy. It has nothing to do with you remembering to throw your coat over a puddle so a fair damsel doesn't have to get her shoes wet ;-) If you are hurting someone with your jokes and you care about them then stop with the jokes, get some new material thats better received...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

^ It then becomes an itch that I have to scratch... and darn resisting it is so difficult. Like sure, when she was preggie, I never gave a crap about her weight, she was carrying my angel, and I proved to her how my affection will never stop just with her weight. But still, after that, and when she was being lazy, I ended up chucking a few harpoons.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I would have no interest in guys opening car doors for me, that takes too much time, I am not that much of a Princess. I suppose the gesture is sweet, but I would tell him I like doing it myself -ha ha. I also like some "course bantering", I like debate and I like a good argument once in a while. If a man was "too polite" with me, I would get terribly bored with him. And he would think I was crazy -likely. I am too feisty for that. I am sure Random's dude wife is too ! Not that he needs to pee her off all the time- if it is bringing her to anger.
> 
> I remember years ago, when I first met my husband, he had this one friend, the guy was so overwhelmingly full of compliments, "thank you maam's", "Yes Sir's", he would hold every door, you didn't even have to be his girlfriend. It was TOO much, he seriously annoyed me, I could not even imagine wanting to date someone like that. I used to make fun of him.
> 
> ...


The guy wasn’t a Gent, he was a Prissy “Fussily and excessively respectable”. Naught wrong with being a gent as far as I’m concerned. Good manners don’t make a man weak and are a sign you have indeed reached civilisation . But those prissies most certainly over do it big time.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

You said this in your other post ....


RandomDude said:


> ^ You don't expect me to start reciting poetry or singing love songs do you? =O
> 
> I'm only in the mood for lovey doveys after ballsacs are drained.


...and I was thinking to myself, well darn, she must get Lovey Dovey near 2 -3 times a day - at least once! She ought to be pretty fullfilled then. 

Hey, just like you say here


> Yes, she expressed how free she feels with me. But *she complains about the same crap she loves*... bah! But yes, she wants more lovey dovey and less "macho"...


... to this I say, if you was ever more LOVEY DOVEY, it probably wouldn't be a stretch to say she may do the same and complain you need to be MORE your old nasty self -who she also loves -that way she can get away with being her NASTY self. Some women just need something to whine about, if they don't have something , they will invent something.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> are a sign you have indeed reached civilisation


Well, that's a pain, because I despise civilisation at times :rofl:



> ...and I was thinking to myself, well darn, she must get Lovey Dovey near 2 -3 times a day - at least once! She ought to be pretty fullfilled then.


It's more balanced now @ once a day or every second day.



> ... to this I say, if you was ever more LOVEY DOVEY, it probably wouldn't be a stretch to say she may do the same and complain you need to be MORE your old nasty self -who she also loves -that way she can get away with being her NASTY self. Some women just need something to whine about, if they don't have something , they will invent something.


=/

That's enlightening but also disturbing. Maybe she just wants to p-ss me off like I do with her. Hell sometimes I feel we're throwing each other's demons at each other.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I really had no idea that Gentlemen was associated with "noble birth" somehow, but Hey, you are right... I looked it up!
> 
> I kinda looked upon it more as men with a "good heart" -plenty of those have blue collar jobs, may not be highly educated, but I would still call them gentlemen-cause of how they treat others in their life, whether it be women, family, co-workers, and friends.
> 
> ...


The origins of a gentlleman are as we see when we research. The inference however is that being a gentleman is about behavior. It is an attitude. So very much a blue color guy can act as a gentleman. It is defined by himself about himself. Noble birth is a matter of perspective. Some of the greatest men have come from humble beginnings. There once was a time where one had to be wealthy to gain an education. Only the wealthy could read for example. In western culture there is more of a middle class structure. So these are not feudal times. Hence a man of substance can choose to be a gentleman.

So I use gentleman in a more general sense in that a gentleman is free to behave in an honorable way because he chooses to do so. That is why I see a true gentleman as being powerful. So powerful that he chooses to use that power in a compassionate way ... because he can. Those that feel they have to cheat their way through life and put down others are comparatively weak if they prey on others. They are weak because they lack the confidence and capability to play things straight up.



> Many assume it to be demeaning to women, but if you consider that only the women often continued beyond the fourth grade in rural farm communities, it was more about elevating a woman's culture and education.


Yes. But less so here in Texas. All I can say is if a woman takes issue with someone being polite with her then she has the issues to resolve and not me. If she wishes to be polite back, then we all win. This seems to be more of that deep resentment many woman have. being a gentleman is a good thing. In no way is it being a doormat or overly Beta.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Every woman loves a gentleman. Its hot. Chivalry and thoughtfulness = good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I would have no interest in guys opening car doors for me, that takes too much time, I am not that much of a Princess. I suppose the gesture is sweet, but I would tell him I like doing it myself -ha ha. I also like some "course bantering", I like debate and I like a good argument once in a while. If a man was "too polite" with me, I would get terribly bored with him. And he would think I was crazy -likely. I am too feisty for that. I am sure Random's dude wife is too ! Not that he needs to pee her off all the time- if it is bringing her to anger.
> 
> I remember years ago, when I first met my husband, he had this one friend, the guy was so overwhelmingly full of compliments, "thank you maam's", "Yes Sir's", he would hold every door, you didn't even have to be his girlfriend. It was TOO much, he seriously annoyed me, I could not even imagine wanting to date someone like that. I used to make fun of him.
> 
> ...


Yes, one can take formalities too far. I think one gets more formal at formal occasions. 

How about we boil it down to a gentleman being so secure in himslef that it is easy for him to show appropriate respect and not be a jerk. 

Being a gentleman does not mean that a husband and wife cannot have that healthy banter or playfulness or mad passionate sex. It is not a shield in between them. A gentleman is someone who can be relied upon to make respectful decsions. A gentleman can certainly throw his woman down on the bed and ravage her.

Again if a woman feels the need to be treated disrespectfully or mistreated to be attracted to a man then a gentleman is not the way to go. Get a bad boy he is looking to pump and dump.

Also just because a man follows ritual, this does not make he a gentleman. I guess this thread is focused on thes outward rituals and not the substance.

I do not think a gentleman is a Nice Guy. I think they are a good guy with tons of Alpha and the right amount of Beta to "civalize" things.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> That's enlightening but also disturbing. Maybe she just wants to p-ss me off like I do with her. Hell sometimes I feel we're throwing each other's demons at each other.


I am curious how many of your friends in REAL life tell you -the 2 of you "are made for each other"...or..... "you deserve each other" ?? Come on, if it is in your power to stop something that she would be happy with and at the same time , in her power to stop something that would create more happiness in you . It sounds so simple but yet beyond your grasp somehow...lack of discipline, too engranied in old habits. 

Hey once a day or every other, she has come a little ways :smthumbup:


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> gentleman:
> 
> 1. A chivalrous, courteous, or honorable man.
> 2. A man of good social position, esp. one of wealth and leisure.
> ...


I would consider my father to be about the perfect gentleman. He's strong and brave and would walk through hell and back for our family. But at the same time he's utterly considerate of the comfort of others, which I consider to be the hallmark of a gentleman. He opens doors, offers his seat, walks on the outside of the sidewalk, orders dinner at the restaurant--the whole thing, and it's just a part of him, not an act at all.

Your comment about "dominating the opponent deftly" cracked me up though. My dad was recently in a pretty bizarre altercation at a lunch presentation. Some crazy drunk guy came up to him and started yelling at him, and at some of the people in the group and finally hauled off and literally punched my father in the nose. Dad was so shocked and hurt, he _deftly_ took the ceramic flower pot he was holding and broke it over the guys head! Ended that pretty quickly! :rofl: He told me about it a couple of weeks afterward and I can't tell you how much I would have loved to have seen that.....


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> That's enlightening but also disturbing. Maybe she just wants to p-ss me off like I do with her. Hell sometimes I feel we're throwing each other's demons at each other.


That's probably the closest you've gotten to enlightenment. I'm beginning to think you hate yourself for being with her and take it out on her every chance you get--probably hoping she'll have enough of it one day so that she'll call the whole thing off, you're free to go back to your people and your dreams without actually having to make the choice and say the words. Who knows that she's not doing the same with her religion or whatever? 

I'm pretty sure that's the very picture of throwing each other's demons at each other and you're probably pretty spot on with that observation....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I am curious how many of your friends in REAL life tell you -the 2 of you "are made for each other"...or..... "you deserve each other" ?? Come on, if it is in your power to stop something that she would be happy with and at the same time , in her power to stop something that would create more happiness in you . It sounds so simple but yet beyond your grasp somehow...lack of discipline, too engranied in old habits.
> 
> Hey once a day or every other, she has come a little ways :smthumbup:


Haha yeah, and the best thing is - no asking, it just happens! Good o' seduction, also giving me space, and emphasis on quality of the session rather then quantities. She's definitely come around.

And yeah, mates say that all the time, so do we to each other. Though...


> Come on, if it is in your power to stop something that she would be happy with and at the same time , in her power to stop something that would create more happiness in you . It sounds so simple but yet beyond your grasp somehow...lack of discipline, too engranied in old habits.


 Heh what do you mean? I don't understand.

@COGypsy



> That's probably the closest you've gotten to enlightenment. I'm beginning to think you hate yourself for being with her and take it out on her every chance you get--probably hoping she'll have enough of it one day so that she'll call the whole thing off, you're free to go back to your people and your dreams without actually having to make the choice and say the words. Who knows that she's not doing the same with her religion or whatever?
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's the very picture of throwing each other's demons at each other and you're probably pretty spot on with that observation....


A part of me does hate myself for being with her, the other part loves her immensely. It's a conflict of my thoughts and feelings that I've put up with since I fell for her. And yes did try to push her away, except by doing so we only managed to deal with everything to the point our relationship only came out stronger and with us falling even deeper in love.

Irony... =/
As for the thoughts they still come and go, but it's too late now, there's no way I'm leaving her and our angel. It doesn't do much, just makes me feel like crap, but I can't block it off unfortunately. Hence it's my issue, and I don't bring it up with her, it's not her fault and not her burden.

As for her she's never used her religion to distance herself from me, more to use it to attempt to manipulate me into getting her way :rofl:



> I would consider my father to be about the perfect gentleman. He's strong and brave and would walk through hell and back for our family. But at the same time he's utterly considerate of the comfort of others, which I consider to be the hallmark of a gentleman. He opens doors, offers his seat, walks on the outside of the sidewalk, orders dinner at the restaurant--the whole thing, and it's just a part of him, not an act at all.


Being strong and brave, making decisions, opening doors, well that's just being a man. But a "gentle"man, I don't know, maybe my definition for it is a little weird. As for being considerate, sure, but doesn't mean for example I want to stop play-fighting with her over the best seat or more commonly the last bite, besides everytime I do win (and she wins too sometimes), I always invite her to come and share (no she has to come over ), same as how if I got the best seat I would tell her she can always be on my lap heh. Guess that's just my way of showing love, and having a bit of fun in the process, play-fighting then just leads to some flirting. I don't know...

I don't do it to be mean, I just want to have some fun in life that's all =/


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Which part of you hates yourself for being with her? Explain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The part of me that cares for my people and our troubled future outlook. Nevermind that, it's just thoughts that comes and goes.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't understand what u mean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's complicated interracial/political BS, anyways I don't want to go on about it again. I just have to keep reminding myself some choices just aren't black and white, and I have to deal with the consequences of those choices. The thoughts don't stop though, but a few hours in the wilderness seems to get my head screwed back on straight.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Understood...about u not wanting to discuss. I think what the poster above meant was that u both could be happy if u stop doing the things the other tells u that they don't like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well... it's going to be a hard road, it's just hard to stop joking around for me sometimes... and I like to be sincere with my verbal affirmations (when not making jokes about her). Still remember how she responded "so you're not sincere?!" -.-

Other times yes if she does something stupid I crack up, and sometimes I tell her it has to do with her hair, and her refusal to dye it hehe. She does the same thing, but of course I'm a man, so she should traditionally take less right? I don't know, I married her for her strength, I married her because I could be open with her, and not with her whining like a wounded dove or some such...

But of course yes yes... a woman wants to feel pretty and her intelligence valued - which I do tell her how much I really do value her intelligence, and I admitted it to her many times she's actually smarter then me. Just not ALL the time... =/ bah!

But the classic example of me refusing to stop, and not playfighting or joking, actually FULL ON taking the piss outta her until she explodes; is her silent treatment. I can give her space but when it carries on and on, it's like a bubble I have to pop! So yes, I'm VERY insensitive when I do it... but I like an open communication channel, and I would prefer if she beat me up then herself, let alone refuse to sort it out with me. I don't like her silent treatment but I deal with it, she deals with my bubble-popping and we have make ups to go along with it. But bah... of course she whines...

*sighs*
One can never win...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well then stop being insensitive. If you know that taking the piss out of her upsets her...stop doing it. She will grow to resent u over time if you keep doing something she told u hurts her feelings. And u in tun will resent her for thesilent treatments. U guys are hurting eachothers feelings w this dynamic. Why would you keep doing something that hurts someone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Look, about not understanding..... She did this for you.....


> and the best thing is - no asking, it just happens! Good o' seduction, also giving me space, and emphasis on quality of the session rather then quantities. She's definitely come around.
> 
> And yeah, mates say that all the time, so do we to each other.


 Nice to hear others feel you are a perfect match. This is very telling -if your friends know you and say it. 

Now start being more sensitive to her. Every so slowly, take baby steps to reign some of the bad stuff in. If you have put duct tape over your mouth , do it! She would probably find it funny anyway. That is all I was saying. Sounds like you are the one dragging your feet on this-adamantly , as she has come your way in the sex department- giving you some of that space you was needing so bad. And the seduction back on tract. 

Progress is being made, don't put a fork into it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

True, alright, baby steps...

Heck it feels like we're two nations in a nuclear arms treaty or something, disarming it one nuke at a time, together... heck now I just made the cold war resolution sound romantic 

Heh ok I won't put a fork in it... yet, I'll sabotage the marriage later hehe  Just for a bit of fun


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

You have me considering my own perception of a gentleman... and when I think 'gentleman' I usually think manners, but yes, it's more than that. 

I remember a guy who tried to pursue me before I met my husband, he was well educated, extremely well-mannered, tried to court me in a very traditional sense, leaving little notes and written invites asking for a date in my mailbox, he'd call-in to visit and end up chatting politely with my mother .....and he was a very talented pianist but looked more "rock" with long hair and clothing choice, his appearance was a bit rough but his approach with me was incredibly gentle, and thoughtful and politely well-mannered. My mom said he was a gentleman. She actually scolded me when I ignored him once. I saw him as too frilly, trying too hard. He was a Nice Guy. I finally agreed to go out on a date with him because of my mom's encouragement. He tried to feed me the chocolate froth from his drink and I didn't accept his spoon and told him I had my own. I just wasn't feeling it. As much as I love being romanced, his approach just wasn't suited to me. He was a lovely guy really, but it felt slightly forced and unnatural.

My husband, 16 years later, still opens the car doors for me. He'll offer his seat up on the train for other women to sit down. It's almost instinctual that he does this. I love it. He carries himself with confidence. He's defended me when needed, while still keeping his cool. It's in his respect towards me, others, and himself. To me, he's a gentleman. 

I don't relate being a gentleman to social status or education. It's about having consideration from a genuine place. Perhaps it's about having grace.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Is it really important? :scratchhead:
> 
> I do care for my family, it's always in my mind how to improve each of our lives. And her burdens I like to carry on my shoulders. But I show my love differently, vastly different to the traditional "gentleman"... not only do I limit my lovey dovey affectionate words-of-affirmation but I tend to take the piss outta my wife. I don't with my kid - not yet, instead I just want my kid to grow up faster so me and her can take the piss outta mummy together! :smthumbup:
> 
> ...


Marriage is one heck of a lot about DYNAMICS. Do this, get that response. Do that, get this response. This goes on 24x7 365 days of the year in a marriage.

Look at this DYNAMICS MODEL. You take the p!ss out of your wife. She thinks you don’t love her, can only find fault in her. She demands sex from you to prove that you love her. You take the p!ss out of your wife. She thinks you don’t love her, can only find fault in her. She demands sex from you to prove that you love her. You take the p!ss out of your wife. She thinks you don’t love her, can only find fault in her. She demands sex from you to prove that you love her. Repeat ad infinitum 24x7 365 days a year.

With your constant, habitual, p!ss taking even when asked to stop I reckon you’ve probably made your wife so insecure it’s unbelievable.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

AFEH said:


> The guy wasn’t a Gent, he was a Prissy “Fussily and excessively respectable”. Naught wrong with being a gent as far as I’m concerned. Good manners don’t make a man weak and are a sign you have indeed reached civilisation . But those prissies most certainly over do it big time.


Another excellent example of how the whole man / manliness/ masculinity issue is mired in perception and semantics (Not a dig at you, AFEH!).

"Gentleman" has a strong perception of either prissiness, or else of being someone who doesn't have a real stake in what they do. "Gentleman farmer" or "gentleman scholar" are borderline terms of abuse (certainly derision) about someone who does it not because they have to but as a way of using their time. If the gentleman farmer's crop fails, he's got enough moola that it doens't matter. Like the old rhyme "when Adam ploughed and Eve spun, who was then a gentleman?"


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Well I’m a gent but no one would accuse me of being a prissy, at least not to my face. But I am selective with it. Young arrogant, feminist women with big chips on their shoulders, I’ll let the door go in their face or let them carry the load themselves even if they struggle lest I get frowned upon and accused of being sexist. Pregnant women, women with prams, women with young children, middle aged and older women I’ll always take a chance and be a gent for them and put myself out to help when I can.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I like the definition of gentleman that states "a chivalrous, courteous, or honorable man." The world chivalrous has always intrigued me - meaning "courteous and gallant, especially toward women" or "gracious and honorable toward an enemy, especially a defeated one, and toward the weak or poor."

Love those words, and LOVE the men who can LIVE those words - being courteous, honorable, gallant, gracious - even to those who may not always 'deserve' it.

AFEH - With those "young, arrogant feminists" - you should simply take the wind out of their sails by being the ever gallant gentleman. Open their doors with a smile and nod, help with the packages. Overwhelm their rudeness with courteousness and honorability and go on your merry way. You will have made a much greater impact and make a FAR greater impression on them by doing that than anything else.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Well I’m a gent but no one would accuse me of being a prissy, at least not to my face. But I am selective with it. Young arrogant, feminist women with big chips on their shoulders, I’ll let the door go in their face or let them carry the load themselves even if they struggle lest I get frowned upon and accused of being sexist. Pregnant women, women with prams, women with young children, middle aged and older women I’ll always take a chance and be a gent for them and put myself out to help when I can.


I was pretty surprised to see some of the opinions of what it means to be a gentleman by some. To me, its great to see such a diverse set of views. My grandfather, though, taught all of his grandsons that it was not supposed to be noticable, or for show. Its a part of who you are, and if you do it to impress a girl, he called them peac0cks. Largely, in his day, it was just meant to be an assurance to a woman that she could feel free to be open and expressive, even contentious, without being taken advantage of in an early relationship. But really, it is just a small facet of living life by a code of integrity and mutual respect.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

As I mentioned already, only time I don't stop is when she's pulling the silent treatment, and I do it to get her mad. I figure, she's already mad on the inside, might as well get it outside so I can actually deal with it.

Other times I simply don't indulge her when she's being annoying and fishing for silly compliments which she doesn't need in my opinion, she gets it from everyone already. Most of the time she's cool with it and she puts me down too but it's all fun and games. Other times though she gets all needy and meh...

Annoying thing is when I do give in to her fishing she starts floating around with a bubble around her head and I just have to pop it and bring her back down to earth.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Is it really important? :scratchhead:
> 
> I do care for my family, it's always in my mind how to improve each of our lives. And her burdens I like to carry on my shoulders. But I show my love differently, vastly different to the traditional "gentleman"... not only do I limit my lovey dovey affectionate words-of-affirmation but I tend to take the piss outta my wife. I don't with my kid - not yet, instead I just want my kid to grow up faster so me and her can take the piss outta mummy together! :smthumbup:
> 
> ...


yea, you and I couldn't be married. I couldn't live with someone who constantly wanted to "take the piss outta me". Wtf. No way. How annoying. Grow up. And then to drag the kids into such behaviour? Yuck.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

> "Gentleman" has a strong perception of either prissiness, or else of being someone who doesn't have a real stake in what they do. "Gentleman farmer" or "gentleman scholar" are borderline terms of abuse (certainly derision) about someone who does it not because they have to but as a way of using their time. If the gentleman farmer's crop fails, he's got enough moola that it doens't matter. Like the old rhyme "when Adam ploughed and Eve spun, who was then a gentleman?"


Really? I never thought of a gentleman being prissy. 

I think of a gentleman of being polite and respecting me for the woman I am. Prissy? No. Strong and respectful? Yes.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Halien said:


> I often wonder if I've insulated my daughter too much though. She's never seen me raise my voice or use coarse language around her or her mother, so she's had a few surprises with boyfriends..


Why would you think it is "insulating" to teach your daugther that she deserves to be spoken to with respect? Why would you WANT her to be familiar with--and unsurprised by--loud voices and coarse language? I hope she looks right at those bfs and says, "I am not accustomed to such language and will not allow myself to become accustomed to it." That's their warning. She needs to be ready to back it up by dumping them if they ever--even once--tread on her boundary again, b/c she is too good for them. Hooray to you for teaching her that!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Halien said:


> I was pretty surprised to see some of the opinions of what it means to be a gentleman by some. To me, its great to see such a diverse set of views. My grandfather, though, taught all of his grandsons that it was not supposed to be noticable, or for show. Its a part of who you are, and if you do it to impress a girl, he called them peac0cks. Largely, in his day, it was just meant to be an assurance to a woman that she could feel free to be open and expressive, even contentious, without being taken advantage of in an early relationship. But really, it is just a small facet of living life by a code of integrity and mutual respect.


I like this!


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I've always shared the definition mentioned in--of all places--the novel Gone with the Wind: a true lady (gentleman) puts everyone else at ease. It is not just about how a man treats a woman, or vice-versa--it's about the higher standard to which they hold themselves without ever letting anyone else feel inferior around them. A true gentleman may have an education, but no one less educated would ever feel ignorant around him. A true gentleman who has money would never let on, those kinds of things. A true gentleman refrains from judging others while maintaining the highest integrity. Manners are just the "nouveau riche" substitution for true gentlemanliness--a true gentleman has them, of course, but if that is ALL one has, one is not a true gentleman.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> As I mentioned already, only time I don't stop is when she's pulling the silent treatment, and I do it to get her mad. I figure, she's already mad on the inside, might as well get it outside so I can actually deal with it.
> 
> Other times I simply don't indulge her when she's being annoying and fishing for silly compliments which she doesn't need in my opinion, she gets it from everyone already. Most of the time she's cool with it and she puts me down too but it's all fun and games. Other times though she gets all needy and meh...
> 
> Annoying thing is when I do give in to her fishing she starts floating around with a bubble around her head and I just have to pop it and bring her back down to earth.


I don't think the Aussie "Tall Poppy Syndrome" - cutting someone back down to size, keeping them humble, needs apply to your wife. Even if she hears compliments from others, perhaps it's her insecurity with you that has her needing that attention and reassurance from you. What's wrong with her floating for a while? Build her up!

Hubs and I take the piss out of each other too, it's all in good fun, but there's a line and for it to remain humorous, timing and reading each others expressions is key. Without having that respect, imo it can turn into being hurtful.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

heartsbeating said:


> Hubs and I take the piss out of each other too, it's all in good fun, but there's a line and for it to remain humorous, timing and reading each others expressions is key. Without having that respect, imo it can turn into being hurtful.


Love this -couldn't agree more ! :smthumbup:


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

heartsbeating said:


> I don't think the Aussie "Tall Poppy Syndrome" - cutting someone back down to size, keeping them humble, needs apply to your wife. Even if she hears compliments from others, perhaps it's her insecurity with you that has her needing that attention and reassurance from you.


She already gets the attention and reassurance plus lovey dovey often enough during the week. Anymore I'll be putting her on a pedestal - and I don't want to spoil her. Besides all the lovey dovey doesn't come naturally to my hardened nature. And I have too much pride to fake it just to make her happy. When I'm affectionate towards her she always knows I'm 100% sincere.

But that seems to go both ways and when I'm not affectionate she goes all waaa waaa!
She's one of few women who dug out the sensitive dude underneath my hardened skin but who is she to demand that this side of me comes out ALL the time and if it does come out too much she'll probably feel smothered.



> What's wrong with her floating for a while? Build her up!


It's just an itch that I have to scratch sometimes... especially when she starts being arrogant and feels "because I'm this and that I deserve this and that", and not just with me but others as well. So I end up starting up the surface to air missiles.



> Hubs and I take the piss out of each other too, it's all in good fun, but there's a line and for it to remain humorous, timing and reading each others expressions is key. Without having that respect, imo it can turn into being hurtful.


I know there's a line, I can even feel the line, and read how far I can go... but I still cross it from time to time anyway - I don't go too far no, but enough for her to call me insensitive. Besides if she gets stung I make it up to her anyway, and I enjoy getting myself back into her good books.

In a way... it's easier for me to be more loving towards her when I can justify being loving towards her. It's not that I lack the ability to be loving, just that. But I don't expect her to be perfect, she's human, and when humans get a stick up their a$$ no point shoving up more sticks.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I promise I'm not being argumentative when I ask this, but what's your question then? Or does it help you type out what's happening for it to make sense in your own mind? (Nothing wrong with that, if that's the case!) I do get where you're coming from about not smothering her but my personal opinion is it also doesn't need to be extremes of all or nothing. That sounds high drama. Maybe that works for you both. 

It seems there are some suggestions about respecting her boundaries, helping her to not feel insecure through your actions etc. and you come back with justifications as to why you do what you do and that you're not going to change anything. No worries if that is the case. I'm not having a go at you, just curious is all.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh no no, I know you're not being argumentative, and I do want to get to the bottom of this, but I just find it very difficult...

As for being all or nothing, since I was 16 every lady told me I'm like a roller-coaster ride! Been trying to be more stable... I want my wife to be happy but I don't want her to be spoiled, and finding the balance is so da-n hard!

It's just that when she decides to become demanding and stubborn she makes me hard for me to be all loving and caring, and I resist giving her what she wants when she has that attitude... even if in my heart I want to give her everything.

Besides a part of me is always hoping that she gets the cue that I don't want her all needy-like. My self esteem is not dependent on her affections, it's just always there. And she used to be a woman who was very secure with herself, or maybe that was indeed an act just like all the others. I fell in love with her strength and confidence back in the day. In fact, she was even stronger then me, now it seems it's reversed.

I know she can't be strong all the time but... meh, fine... maybe I am just an a$$hole. Stupid really... when we're holding each other close we sometimes talk about how bad we are to each other, and ask each other why we have yet to kick each other to the curb. The answer is always the same. I guess from day one, love is still blind.

Oh hell maybe I just don't even know what i'm thinking...


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Oh no no, I know you're not being argumentative, and I do want to get to the bottom of this, but I just find it very difficult...
> 
> As for being all or nothing, since I was 16 every lady told me I'm like a roller-coaster ride! Been trying to be more stable... I want my wife to be happy but I don't want her to be spoiled, and finding the balance is so da-n hard!
> 
> It's just that when she decides to become demanding and stubborn she makes me hard for me to be all loving and caring, and I resist giving her what she wants when she has that attitude... even if in my heart I want to give her everything.


Well, that becomes about boundaries and appropriate behavior, "appropriate" being a relative term. It's however you both feel works best for you.



RandomDude said:


> Besides a part of me is always hoping that she gets the cue that I don't want her all needy-like. My self esteem is not dependent on her affections, it's just always there. And she used to be a woman who was very secure with herself, or maybe that was indeed an act just like all the others. I fell in love with her strength and confidence back in the day. In fact, she was even stronger then me, now it seems it's reversed.


The dynamic between you is bound to change slightly and hopefully you're continually evolving together. With blending with one another, it seems that certain parts of our personality strengthen and/or soften depending. Sometimes we need to pause and take a look at ourselves and check the dynamic we're creating. 



RandomDude said:


> I know she can't be strong all the time but... meh, fine... maybe I am just an a$$hole. Stupid really... when we're holding each other close we sometimes talk about how bad we are to each other, and ask each other why we have yet to kick each other to the curb. The answer is always the same. I guess from day one, love is still blind.


Why the need to label this as you being an a$$hole? Again, it doesn't have to be all or nothing  Sure, maybe you're both jerks at times to each other. And other times you're awesome to each other. 

Alot of what I read on these forums and what I've been considering myself, is about getting to a place within yourself where your behaviors and actions are congruent with what you're about. Coming from a more centered place, you also demonstrate to others how you expect to be treated, in part through how you treat them. It's not always easy though. And then find the balance within marriage to live this, while still thinking in terms of "we". But whadda I know?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Now I don't know... I'm getting even more confused the more I think about this issue... I can't even believe it got this deep exploring why I do cross the line. Stupid thing is she's rather used to it over the course of half a decade together that if I stop taking the piss outta her for a while she'll probably wonder what's wrong.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I think basically it's not a problem until it's a problem. It's one thing to take the piss, it's another to disregard her feelings or push for the sake of pushing. When I've considered my own behavior, I have given myself a headache lol. There's a reason people often stay set in their ways - because it seems easier.

As for taking the piss, we had some little jabs at each other earlier. We decided to bake some muffins together. I'm not really the cooking type so this is something different for us to do. I found a recipe, he was stirring the mix while I sifted in the flour. I kept swapping arms as they were getting tired using the sifting handle. He laughed and said "I think it's funny that not only are your arms unfit and tired, but it's so that you can eat muffins afterwards." I laughed along, told him to shut up, then switched up how I was sifting and said my arms were used to a different type of action. This sparked flirtation between us.

Muffins ready, we dished up. I giggled and called him a pig for layering on the icing so thickly. He then ribbed me for going back for seconds before I'd even had my first muffin. And again, this somehow lead to flirtation between us. There was more through-out the day. None of it was offensive to either of us. I'd been a bit feisty before this. Sexual tension. Every time we commented to each other there was always some touching or straight up flirting.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

That's common banter between me and my wife, light jabs leading to flirting, but other times our house becomes like an episode of Everybody loves Raymond mixed with Al Bundy. In bad times though, more like the music video by Eminem "love the way you lie", despicting our love/hate relationship.

Her sometimes jabbing at me for being the blanket thief... and ending up throwing her off, and I jab at her for being the human heater during this approaching summer... and HAVING to throw her off, or she jabs at me since she has to keep telling me to watch my aim when I'm pissing out the balcony, or her pulling me to the toilet to potty train her "dog" who likes to mark his territory on the garden from the 2nd floor. Or I jab at her about her cooking, asking her whether she got her alien recipe from Uranus. Or she jabs at me and tells me it's actually what I taught her (she got me a few times with that one).

I'm still waiting for the next time we go shopping together cause I've been saving a line the next time she asks me whether her outfit makes her look pretty or wider. Of course I'm not going to give her a compliment, going to mention harpoons hehe. Silly questions get silly answers, I'm too insensitive to go "oh yeah, you look so pretty" and NO, sometimes the clothes she picks are just atrocious and it makes me feel gay when I actually have a better sense of fashion then her (not always however)...

Though the fitting rooms are nice. We haven't done anything of THAT in particular since marriage however. But this thread makes me think... I don't know.

Besides sometimes we do crazy stuff, like when she got my baby photos and threatened to scan them to everyone because apparently I'm so "cute" and I had to chase her around the house, or when I showed her the photo of her... nevermind lol, don't want to risk getting into trouble. And her chasing me around the house for it.

But then there are the bad times, when she's being silent, and I start to imitate her, or full on take the piss out of her even if she's in a bad mood. Take the piss outta her stupidity with sarcasm, and I keep pushing and pushing until she explodes. And am I wrong to love her so much when she's so angry? She's actually so da-n honest and full of passion when she's angry.

Once she approaches danger zone though I start making up, and the resistance adds to my delight... (I'm so f--ked up)... she hates me, throws things at me, bites me, rakes me, hits me... ironically my love for her bad-side seems to give her the illusion of my control... ending up with her crying while wrapping herself around me. Once she's so jelly I can never hurt her no longer, it's a time of raw passion as I no longer have to justify being who I am deep inside when she's in that state. I see no malice when she's like that... perfect justification and opportunity to spoil her without any consequences.

Then the next day comes... and I find myself wrapped in our blanket again... and with her waking up grumpy over a bad night's sleep... and nights like the previous night being so routine we're justifying being an a$$ and b-tch to each other.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Why do you feel the need to keep pushing and pushing until she explodes? Why would you want her to get to a state of such upset? 

I wonder if you get her to breaking point because as you said, she becomes completely honest and passionate... so maybe you want to see this rawness and vulnerability with her more often? Obviously I'm no expert, I'm just another random online with a keyboard and an opinion, who probably finds it easier to give advice than to follow it for myself at times BUT ....I'd think showing respect, helping her feel secure and listened to, is another way to get her to open and feel she can be REAL with you. Without the need for tears, anger, and emotional stress. 

Maybe you both thrive on the drama of that dynamic, fine if it works for you, but if she's telling you that you're insensitive at times and essentially 'forcing' you to have sex, it shows her insecurity, and I think it'd be naive of you not to have an awareness that in time those moments of passion and drama might become less appealing to her and just become more exhausting. Okay, so that's speculation # 1.

Here's another. I'm wondering why she needs to be in that state for you to justify showing her tenderness. I've seen you write here before that you've had some challenges in your past, so to speculate again, I'm curious whether it's hard for you to let yourself be vulnerable to her? Maybe you can only both be "REAL" (and that's not to say you're fake with each other at other times), but to get to that honest, deeper level together, maybe it's also that YOU can only really be that way with her in that high drama moment because any other time, if you gave yourself to her, and opened yourself to potential hurt with her, you'd view yourself somehow as weak. There's nothing weak in being vulnerable. You're both meant to be on each others team. It's okay to give in to that. Make sense?

Which then also makes me consider the control dance between you. You think you have control over her melt-downs/for you to show her love. She thinks she has control over your body/for her to show you love. Or maybe it's vice verse. You both get each other to breaking point to prove love but it seems to come from a place of insecurity.

You're in some emotional turmoil together. Part of that is going to be a struggle with growing, and growing in the same direction. Realizing you're not both who you once were, that dynamic is changing, you have a child etc. it's bound to happen. If you keep breaking down walls you both have built and get to a place to help each other peer over those diminishing walls, while not in a state of high emotional turmoil, I have a feeling that love and passion could be channeled in an even better way. Feel free to tell me I'm talking utter BS. They're just some thoughts I had *shrug* maybe something will resonate, maybe not.

Oh and for the record, I'd hate if my H peed anywhere but the toilet. What's up with that?!! haha you're grown folk, use the toilet!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It makes me exhausted just thinking about being in this type of relationship-- always having to be "on" and deal with this behaviour. Whew.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cause when she's in silent treatment mode she has a habit of holding all her resentment inside and justifying being VERY manipulative to me and nothing I say or do without poking her can get her to stop. Besides, when she's in that mode she can be more then demanding, also very controlling and rather clever - always two steps ahead, twisting my words even.

I can't handle her that way, I can't win the battle when I'm in her home turf, she's too good with her mind games when she's dangerously calm. So I draw her out into my own home turf - where I am more in control as she goes all out. Taunt taunt taunt, poke poke poke... EXPLODE... then fix fix fix

And yeah, I like to mark my territory while having a smoke at the same time :smthumbup:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Why should she open up and tell you ANYTHING emotional when you'll just tease her or take the piss outta her?

I'd give you the silent treatment too. You've taught her not to be open and vulnerable with you. sad.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm...

Come to think of it it's like a cycle isn't it? I close up, she tries to open up, she closes up, gets insecure, demanding, manipulative, we fight, then open up, she gets happy with human my side - not my machine side, next time, I close up, she tries to open up, she closes up... "not going to deal with this!" then explodes, we both open up, next day, I close up... repeat and repeat =/

Fine... I'll stop being so heartless

But it kills the fun being nice sometimes, like ok, sometimes I do give her a little random jab, crossing the line a bit, and she gives me the "you dare?!" look heh... then I try to smooth my way back into her good graces, sometimes she even plays with me a bit, makes it a little harder to make up. I love it!

But other times I find it more entertaining to see smoke from her ears then to actually banter and flirt with her. Meh... guess I have to stop that side of me. It's almost like a part of me likes to break everything then put it back together again...


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> Come to think of it it's like a cycle isn't it? I close up, she tries to open up, she closes up, gets insecure, demanding, manipulative, we fight, then open up, she gets happy with human my side - not my machine side, next time, I close up, she tries to open up, she closes up... "not going to deal with this!" then explodes, we both open up, next day, I close up... repeat and repeat =/
> 
> ...


I find it curious that purposely pushing her to "extremes" is entertaining. You wrote earlier that when she's expressed all her anger and broken-down emotionally with tears, it's _then_ that you feel you can no longer hurt her. 

It seems you keep mentioning her behavior as means of justifying why you act a certain way in return. Well, she's not on these boards, you are. So you're the one on the receiving end of this opinion. If you sincerely want to change this dynamic between you, if you want her to be different towards you, the changes must begin with you. 

How would you feel if your daughter came to you upset and said her boyfriend kept emotionally pushing her, was purposely insensitive and reduced her to tears? I know I'd be telling her not to put up with it.

This isn't about banter. This is about crossing the line, having maturity, loving your wife so the last thing you'd ever want is to cause her emotional distress this way.

I focus on what you write about your own actions - because you're the one posting here. You can't change her. You can change yourself. What kind of man do you want to be? What kind of father will your daughter know? Besides the health of your marriage, your daughter will also be observing what is and isn't acceptable behavior for her. Maybe she won't learn how to handle conflict without throwing things, flying into angry rage and being reduced to tears, and having roller-coaster high drama relationships herself. Maybe she'll observe what's around her and think "No freaking way would I ever let a man break-me emotionally that way." Who knows?

But the thing about breaking something just to put it back together again is that, with time, there are some things that end up broken beyond repair. 

ugh, I hate getting so serious! I think you need to make some changes for your own good. This isn't all bad, although it sounds a bit heavy. You're here wanting help, so you know something's gotta give. What you do now, could really help your relationship stay in tact in the long run. Best wishes.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

oh and, in case you care what a stranger online thinks lol, I don't view this one aspect of your dynamic as a blanket over the rest of your relationship. I'm not saying you're an a$$hole either - just giving up a perspective. It sounds like you do right by each other in other aspects of your life. We're all a balance of different qualities. Just sayin'. 

< non-combative Aquarian


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Alright then... I've decided, I'm going to play nice, starting now, already called her to get ready and arrange for our daughter, besides I'm saving too much, and not spending. I think SA is right too that I've been dragging my feet a bit on this one. Come to think of it... it's been a while since I've spoiled her for no reason.

She's come a long way for me... and I haven't really reciprocated too. Besides I think it would be interesting to see her reactions (not to mention her possible accusations!) "What's wrong?" "Did you do something I should know about?" "What's the occasion?" "Just tell me!!!" Heh

*sigh* Actually this is kinda stupid, it's almost like I also fear not having anything left to fight about!!! I'm so used to it!!! Bah!

Oh well, guess we'll still have the world to cause trouble, someone also made me remember a time not too long ago with a bunch of idiots driving past throwing a beer bottle at us and our daughter. World is bad enough, why not make it a sanctuary at least at home yes?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

that_girl said:


> It makes me exhausted just thinking about being in this type of relationship-- always having to be "on" and deal with this behaviour. Whew.


I completely agree. This doesn't sound healthy or loving at all. 



RandomDude said:


> Fine... I'll stop being so heartless
> 
> But it kills the fun being nice sometimes
> 
> But other times I find it more entertaining to see smoke from her ears then to actually banter and flirt with her.


Obviously it's your relationship and it works for you but the insensitivity and lack of empathy and emotional pushing for "entertainment" was one of the reasons I left my exH. He would tell me point blank he would do/say things just to piss me off. Eventually I def felt I could not be vulnerable w/ him and overtime I ended up resenting him. Treating someone poorly just to get a reaction out of them is not love.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Being nice isn't a novelty in our house. It's the norm. It makes for a comfortable, sweet and calm environment. Try it sometime...challenge yourself to be nice for one day. Bite your tongue and just "be".


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I completely agree. This doesn't sound healthy or loving at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously it's your relationship and it works for you but the insensitivity and lack of empathy and emotional pushing for "entertainment" was one of the reasons I left my exH. He would tell me point blank he would do/say things just to piss me off. Eventually I def felt I could not be vulnerable w/ him and overtime I ended up resenting him. Treating someone poorly just to get a reaction out of them is not love.


I’ve a mate who does that sort of thing to his partner. The other day he was joking about trading her in for a younger model but as she’s a good cook he’ll keep her on for his food. Bless her she got both hurt and defensive but he couldn’t see it whereas I could and so could two other friends with us. The guy constantly does this sort of thing. To him it’s a great joke and he thinks he’s “being the man”, but he can’t see that no one else sees the funny side even though none of us laugh, including his partner. And he certainly can’t see the toxic side of what he does and how he may just be making his partner vulnerable to an emotional affair.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

^ Now that's definitely crossing the line a bit too far. I'm not THAT bad! Still a jerk from time to time but I wouldn't cut her like that. I'm not non-empathic I simply just don't use it from time to time.



> Being nice isn't a novelty in our house. It's the norm. It makes for a comfortable, sweet and calm environment. Try it sometime...challenge yourself to be nice for one day. Bite your tongue and just "be".


It's nice to make up with her, and I enjoy getting her wined up as much as I enjoy making up. Guess that's why I have a roller-coaster thing going on.

We had a good night last night, decided to spoil her a bit. Just before bed I had a talk with her about this, asked her whether she's tired of this roller-coaster ride, she kept telling me not to spoil the moment and told me she reckons I'm thinking too much again...

I kept at it though, she kept telling me that it doesn't bother her and that it's unbecoming of me to accuse of her of being sensitive and that she doesn't ask me whether she stung too hard at all so why should I. So I brought up her comments about me being insensitive and she had a laugh at me. 

I don't know... she eventually admitted that sometimes she's just not in the mood to muck around, but that's it, and that I'm thinking too much. :scratchhead:

She's confusing... :banghead:
Maybe she'll be more honest when we're talking AFTER an actual fight, not during a bliss. 
Bah... see what I mean? I don't know if she's just tough or if she's just acting tough... but after a fight, she tells me EVERRRRRRRRYTHING...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ah crap, now she caught me in my man-cave first thing in the morning and wants me to print out all my recent threads... probably is curious what sparked last night, that's just NOT FAIR! *sighs*

Bah better deal with this now...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AFEH said:


> I’ve a mate who does that sort of thing to his partner. The other day he was joking about trading her in for a younger model but as she’s a good cook he’ll keep her on for his food. Bless her she got both hurt and defensive but he couldn’t see it whereas I could and so could two other friends with us. The guy constantly does this sort of thing. To him it’s a great joke and he thinks he’s “being the man”, but he can’t see that no one else sees the funny side even though none of us laugh, including his partner. And he certainly can’t see the toxic side of what he does and how he may just be making his partner vulnerable to an emotional affair.


Sounds like my ex husband!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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