# SUICIDE - The Ones Left Behind



## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

I chose to put this thread here so more people could read it and respond. When someone commits suicide, it's their close friends, family, and loved ones who suffer the most. My sister's live in boyfriend got drunk one night and shot himself in the head right in front of her. She had to hold his brains in until help arrived.

He died a few hours later and ever since then, my sister has never been the same. It's like he took the best part of her with him (empathy, kindness, truthfullness, etc.) All of her good qualiies vanished and she is now one of the most self-centered, judgemental, and angry people I have ever met.

That was five years ago, she has another live in boyfriend, but she bosses him around, is cruel to him, she has grown into a 34 year old jerk I wouldn't want to be around if she weren't my sister. It's heartbreaking since she and I were PEAS AND CARROTS as Forrest Gump would say.

She also has the feeling that No One in the world has a right to be sad or bummed about something because what she went through was much worse, so everyone else is a weak pansy. When I went into a depression due to my jobless state and H's drinking problem, she wrote me a note saying that she is ashamed of me and used to look up to me but because I buckled under the weight of depression, I am weak and she has no tolerance for wimps.

So, have any of you experience this? Has someone close to you lost someone to suicide? Did their personalities change? Did they ever get over it? If you lost someone to suicide, did it change who you were? Do people who commit suicide take those closest with them? 

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Your sister lacks those exceedingly important human traits of empathy and compassion, makes me wonder if her boyfriend turned to her for help and got the same treatment as yourself. Suicides are often a protest against loved ones, the way he did it was a massive message for her that seems to have gone 100,000 feet over her head.


I hope you never have need to turn to her again and have others who will hear you out and help you if needs be. My wife’s brother took his own life, his whole family believed in bottling things up and that its weak to talk about such things. They didn’t get the message either and just got even more unforgiving, bitter and resentful.


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## Rosemary's Granddaughter (Aug 25, 2012)

Suicide is an entirely selfish act.

Family and close friends of a person who commits suicide have a higher chance of committing suicide themselves--it becomes an "option".

I think that your sister fears depression, as that is what preceded her boyfriend's suicide. In a roundabout way, she is trying to pull (well, bully) you out of your depression because she is in fear for your life.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

If your sister has been traumatized by this (which sounds accurate), she should be in some counseling.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't talk about this often, but I had an ex commit suicide right after I broke up with him. He spent a week calling and calling and calling and I avoided him like the plague. We were so young and we didn't date all that long, maybe 6 months. He'd had some issues prior to me and was taking Zoloft.

One day the calls stopped and I started receiving calls from his best friend. I ignored him, too.

It wasn't until a mutual friend went to my mom's house, found out I was at work, and visited me there to tell me the truth. My "boyfriend" had been cheating on me (the reason I broke up with him), got the other girl pregnant and killed himself.

I don't ever really think I dealt with it. I never talk about it, I don't think about it and I'd rather not remember it. When I write this it feels like I'm writing about someone else. I don't feel at all emotional about it, and that's very strange for me, because I am a very sensitive person. I do remember feeling emotional about it then, though. 

I think I, too, became a b!tch afterwards. Not like how you describe your sis, but I wasn't the same. I just turned inward I guess, and I was angry. I think there are many reasons for this, not just the suicide. 

A part of me always wished I could turn back time and answer the phone. I was too stubborn and too hurt then. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

This subject has many levels which, as you can imagine are right to each of those people. No one is going to give the "right" answer here only opinion. 

It was once stated that someone who commits suicide is the bravest person. They make the biggest judgement call and then actually follow it through. Those that do take this avenue rarely confide in anyone until the last moment, then its to late. The sufferer is normally think about this for a while and the reason for doing it may not be the original trigger, some have considered it for other reasons many times before but not have followed through.

Those that do consider this acton are normally depressed. Depressed people in the main who decied they "dont want to live" actually would prefer if they just ceased to exist. Take time to watch James Stewart in "A Wonderful Life". It actually deals with the issue well. Yes they are casualties and friend/family are effected, that is natural. Many can not comprehend WHY someone would suddenly do this. Its not sudden. It, in its marjority has been considered before the event often many times. Most replying here will disagree. But if youve had the opportunity to speak to someone of a failed attempt they will tell you, I just dont want to be here, I dont want to be feeling the way I do anymore. Its this "feeling" that is the root causebecause what they are feeling is bigger to them than not existing. There is a massive difference between those that attempt suicide where they aim to be caught and/or stopped. This is the "cry for help" scenario. The most dangerous person is the planner who knows and has considered ways to do this because of past issues, they may have even started the attempt and pulled back, these people will not shout about it. In the case of this young lady. She has seen someone go though the event. It was loud and veryviolet. Many soldiers reported similar reactions having seen a friend blown up or shot. A form of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. She does or should have had supportive councilling. It soulds like there could be issues still. However, if she has had this attitude prior to the event it could be that the man in question had issues with her adnd went that extra step. Note alchohol was in place just prior to the event which as we all known can make the thought processes more ineffective to rational thought. (all said IMO)


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> It was once stated that someone who commits suicide is the bravest person.


I actually hold the reverse opinion. Suicide is *****ing out of problems. Unless, of course you're one of those terminal patients in a world of pain. Then i actually support the choice to off yourself.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

humanbecoming said:


> I hear people say that it's a "selfish act", and when I do, I wonder if they have ever been so close to the end of their ability to cope, and felt so hollow, lost, and alone that the fear of dying is less than the pain of living?
> 
> There is no selfishness there, believe me.


:iagree: I believe that a person who has lost all hope to such an extent that they'd take their own life is no longer in a 'sane' frame of mind. I don't believe that "selfishness" comes even close to what motivates such a desperate person.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Death in general of a very close loved one could change a person. 

I see this with someone I know. They lost their sister/best friend over a year ago(a car accident) and that person has not been the same since. I feel just awful and pray for their family to get through this. 

Everyone grieves differently. Seeing a loved one in that manner would scar anyone for life. How traumatic. I'm very sorry your sister went through this. She definitely needs therapy to deal with this issue.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

OP, I'm wondering:-

Did your sister have grief / trauma counseling?
Was she an empathic person before her BF's suicide?

If she didn't receive counseling at the time of her BF's death, this might be something worth her considering.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

My second eldest child (aged 6) has a good friend at school. This friend's father killed himself after his mum told him she wanted a divorce.

When I ask about how school went, I am often told that this little boy "was crying again today." It absolutely breaks my heart to think of his pain. His older sister who is friends with my oldest (aged 8), is a lot more matter of fact. She is very much the get-on-with-it type and hasn't really showed she's upset at school. I just can't imagine what effect that will have on them as they get older.

As an aside, I have suffered terrible depression on and off for years. After having my first baby, I had really bad post-natal depression. I used to plan out what I'd do and the timing so baby wouldn't be left on their own. The sheer hopelessness of that kind of depression is something you can rarely find the words to express and I doubt people can understand if they've not "been there."

There was a case the other year here where a teenager committed suicide by jumping off a multi-storey car park. There were people gathered on the ground, telling him to "get on with it" and "stop wasting everyone's time and just do it." Yep he did it. I would waste an hour, a day, however long it took if someone felt they were THAT desperate that they wanted to end it all. Those people make me so angry...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

costa200 said:


> I actually hold the reverse opinion. Suicide is *****ing out of problems. Unless, of course you're one of those terminal patients in a world of pain. Then i actually support the choice to off yourself.


I think it was Socrates who said that a man who hasn’t contemplated suicide hasn’t lived.

Depression and suicidal thoughts are messages that something is very wrong in a person’s life. With some men it initiates an inner journey leading to big personal changes and a totally different lifestyle.


For me these things are not to be mocked or knocked, they are to be listened to, understood and acted upon. The enlightened make depression a guest at their table because it sure is knocking hard on the door with it’s messages.


To have a depressed and maybe suicidal loved one is a true test of a man’s empathy and compassion, creativity and inspiration. Take a look at Samaritans | Samaritans and educate yourself “just in case” family or a friend are in need of help. If they do whatever you do don’t talk to them as callously as you do in your post here.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

The comment from Pault is dead on. I have been there. The option of ending things has been an option for me since the late 1980's. There have been a few times I actually started the process and backed out at the last minute.

There were times when I shared my plans with a friend and also times where I told no-one. The times where a person shares with no-one anre the most dangerous. Those are the most serious.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

IMO most ppl who commit suicide are not thinking clearly, they have issues that go far deeper than some of us can imagine. And while I can agree it may seem like a choice, we also never truly know what a person is thinking or what exactly might be going on in the brain chemistry. 

My wife had a friend who committed suicide about 5 yrs ago. She was on medication for bipolar. They had switched her medicine, it seemed to work against her. All those medicines have those potential side effects. My wifes friend told her doctor she didn't feel right on it, even told the doctor she was having those bad thoughts. The doctor told her he thought that medicine was a good medicine and needed to be on it, and give it a chance a little longer. She did, and committed suicide a few days after that. 

IMO, SOMETIMES, if a medication can alter your brain function (sometime for the good sometime not) then it can have the potential to work against you or for you. In my wifes friends case, yes she was bipolar, BUT I think that medication may have played a role, so in that case It less likely to be a selfish act. To my knowledge when she was first diagnosed with bipolar, I don't think she had suicidal thoughts, but more so after she was on the medication.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

I'd say your sister is making sure she never allows herself to get close to anyone ever again and making sure no one gets close to her. She is changing her personality to isolate herself from caring and loving anyone, including you, ever again. She needs to get herself into counseling, absolutely. She is for sure suffering from post traumatic stress disorder at the very least.

Everyone who posted before me certainly have said it all but I wanted you to know that you have been heard. I am very sorry for your sister's loss of her boyfriend and I am very sorry for your loss of your once very happy sister. Because in a way you are grieving yourself over the loss of what was once your best friend. :-( 

My heart goes out to you.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

all you can do is try to reach out to her by saying she has turned into somebody different and that person is not very nice to be around and sugest some counceling. 

good luck.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

AFEH said:


> I think it was Socrates who said that a man who hasn’t contemplated suicide hasn’t lived.
> 
> Depression and suicidal thoughts are messages that something is very wrong in a person’s life. With some men it initiates an inner journey leading to big personal changes and a totally different lifestyle.
> 
> ...


Tough cookies then because i've had a close relative off himself when i was a teen. Most selfish and total wuss thing to do. Everyone has problems, not everyone can face them and some opt out of life. To call that "brave" is ridiculous IMO. Specially when there are people who are going to suffer for it.

And yes, when things go bad many people do have thoughts about ending it all. But the ones who go ahead with it have given up. It's like a football team losing at half time and deciding to stop playing and take their bus out of there...

If you fight for what you want the worse than can happen is that you lose. If you don't fight then you always lose.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

In 1995 I had a GF that committed suicide and i discovered her it was pretty tramatic experience you always think i wish i would have spent more time saying this or doing that etc. the bottom line is that she chose to end her life in her letter to me she expressed pain about being recently diagnosed with lupus she was a former model and kinda vain if that makes sense, I went to her doctor with her all the time and to a self help lupus group etc I think she just didnt want to deal with having a disease the rest of her life i mean we were both early 30s at the time I knew her from junior high and we grew up together. I did attend IC for about 6 months to help me in dealing with the grief etc.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

costa200 said:


> Tough cookies then because i've had a close relative off himself when i was a teen. Most selfish and total wuss thing to do. Everyone has problems, not everyone can face them and some opt out of life. To call that "brave" is ridiculous IMO. Specially when there are people who are going to suffer for it.
> 
> And yes, when things go bad many people do have thoughts about ending it all. But the ones who go ahead with it have given up. It's like a football team losing at half time and deciding to stop playing and take their bus out of there...
> 
> If you fight for what you want the worse than can happen is that you lose. If you don't fight then you always lose.


Believe me, you know not what you talk of. If I were to tell you of my personal experience you would know of it, it made headline news around the world for over a week. I say again, you know not what you talk of.



As the big, tough, strong man you are you might want to pray tonight that should you ever be in that type of position the people around you do not have the same beliefs in these things as you do. That if you put your hand out for help, they don’t turn their back on you and pass you by because they think they are strong and you are weak.


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

It will take time to heal. He committed suicide in order to hurt her and he killed her soul intentionally. She needs serious trauma counselling and therapy, imo.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your sister, Endless.

That had to be a traumatic thing to see--watching her beloved take his life so violently in front of her.  Some people may never recover psychologically from that. 

My advice is to call her out on her sh*tty behavior. That way you don't enable her. 

One of my closest and favorite relatives took his life. I was the last family member to see him. Broke my heart. I didn't lash out though. I was so angry at him though. Sooo pissed. To me it was a depression and panic attacks. For a long time I felt like I was dreaming it all. How could it be true? It really fvcks up your head thinking someone (someone you loved and were just hanging with) KILLED themself. It's a hard concept to grasp. There are so many emotions involved. 

Everyone grieves differently. But I still say you need to call her bad behavior out if she directs it towards you or in front of you. 

Enabling is disabling.


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

Rosemary's Granddaughter said:


> Suicide is an entirely selfish act.
> 
> Family and close friends of a person who commits suicide have a higher chance of committing suicide themselves--it becomes an "option".
> 
> I think that your sister fears depression, as that is what preceded her boyfriend's suicide. In a roundabout way, she is trying to pull (well, bully) you out of your depression because she is in fear for your life.


Talking from experience, I do not view the average suicide as a resentful act to get back at others. For many (not necessarily those with clinDepression) it is a choice to end their lives while they have the ability to do so under circumstances that they control. These people valued their autonomy above all else and want in in the way they go. Let's not view it as a "selfish" act but rather as autonomous although I do agree that perhaps if there was less judgement/stigma in our society and more healthful integrative communities/social programs/economies, etc, etc there might just be less self-termination, murder, addiction, hurtfulness, etc, etc.

It is a social disorder for some BUT NOT ALL! Please do not generalize.

IMO, the survivor may have preexisting issues that likely existedbefore the suicide but there is too little info to say.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

L.M.COYL said:


> Talking from experience, I do not view the average suicide as a resentful act to get back at others.


:iagree:

I think the people who do it are so depressed and at their wit's end/out of their mind/not thinkin clearly, that they see it as the only way. I loved my relative dearly and will never hate him for what he did. I was mad at him, yes, but I understood eventhough I didn't understand if that makes sense.


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## Pseudonymousse (Oct 3, 2012)

humanbecoming said:


> I hear people say that it's a "selfish act", and when I do, I wonder if they have ever been so close to the end of their ability to cope, and felt so hollow, lost, and alone that the fear of dying is less than the pain of living?
> 
> There is no selfishness there, believe me.



I am really ashamed to say this, and I'm only saying it because of the anonymity this site offers me... but I've been there. I tried to kill myself and I almost did. I ended up in the hospital for several days in a comatose state. When I was "awake" I wasn't myself; the doctors had strapped me to the bed, I was talking gibberish, lifting myself off the bed a la exorcist, etc. I only know these things because my family told me about it. I can't even begin to imagine the nightmare my family went through. I can't imagine going through what they did. I don't think I would be normal after watching that. This was many years ago, but to this day I find my parents tiptoeing around me if I'm pissed or upset. And I feel like the worst human on earth for making them feel that way. To this day my mom feels panicked and scared when she hears sirens, it reminds her of being in the ambulance with me. I've petrified my parents into constant fear of losing me. I hate myself for what I did to them...

I have the most loving parents in the world. I can't imagine parents more perfect than mine. They love me unconditionally, selflessly, they don't spoil me but even when they're guiding me and teaching me when I'm wrong, I never doubt how much I'm loved. The one single sure thing in my life that I value above all else including my life (now) is their love. 

The reason why people say that it's a selfish act is because the person committing the act is depressed, at the end of their rope, and as you say, the pain and uncertainty of death seems more bearable than the pain of living. But the thing is, this person doesn't think about the repercussions of their actions. They don't think of the people they'll leave behind. I'm not saying they don't give a single thought to them, but they don't really think and realize the devastation they'll be leaving behind. I remember I had spent a ton of money and bought my brother all the video games and DVDs he wanted. I hugged and kissed my mom and dad and told them how much I love them and how I'll always love them. I remember hugging my mom that morning and breaking down and assuring her over and over again how much I love her. I can't even write this without crying. 

What I realize now, the devastation of my actions that I realize now, how I value their love, now.. I didn't then. It is truly a selfish act because you're not thinking of anyone as much as you're thinking about yourself.


@ the Original Poster. What your sister went through is DEVASTATING. Does a person change when a loved one dies?? Yes. Does a person change when they're holding in their boyfriends brains after he blew them out? God, yes! I can't imagine what she went through and is going through... She needs help so badly. 

My LT relationship ended badly, and that changed ME. I'm not the person I was, and I realize that. I've smartened up by becoming suspicious and MEAN. I try to control my behaviour, but you can't compare a divorce with what your sister went through. I can't stress this enough. What she's doing is NOT her fault. She has changed and that's NOT her fault. She needs help badly! If she doesn't want to see a shrink, perhaps talk to a doctor you trust, have them recommend someone, talk to that specialist and see how you can get them to see her without her realizing. Whether she accepts it or not is not the question. She's not rational right now. But you are, and you can help her. She needs help badly.


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

costa200 said:


> I actually hold the reverse opinion. Suicide is *****ing out of problems. Unless, of course you're one of those terminal patients in a world of pain. Then i actually support the choice to off yourself.


I think this poster has communicated a common opinion, here, and one that instead of decreasing the possibility of self-termination INCREASES IT. Why?

Our society expects 'strength' and 'soldiering through' mentalities when people are faced with challenges. So, what do you do if you are faced with an insurmountable problem? Soldiering through may not be possible. Self reliance is also popularized so it is not viewed as 'manly' to confide in others. So, what's left to do? These people IMPLODE!

We need more compassion and understanding not blame and anger; those things lead to more self-termination, imo.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thank you for starting this thread.

I am in a place in my life where I think of harming myself at least 3-5 times a day. I have not done anything beyond occasionally cutting myself (not with intent to die).

I do not talk about it with anyone. My H knows there is something wrong, but chooses to ignore it I suppose. I don't go to him for help. I would say for certain that absolutely no one else knows that I have these thoughts.

My days are spent in thirds. 1/3 of the time I keep busy to avoid the painful thoughts with work, chores, etc. I still function as a normal adult. 1/3 of the time I spend reciting to myself the mantra that other people would be upset if I was gone. I try to visualize my children at my funeral. 1/3 of the time, in those quiet moments when I am alone - driving to and from work, sitting up alone in the middle of the night while the rest of the house is asleep, I think of the best way to carry out the act.

Despite those saying its a selfish act, I actually don't feel that I am a selfish person. I feel very calm and level headed and have had these thoughts off and on for years, although they are stronger now than ever before. I don't feel fear. I do feel that right now, things are not aligned well enough for me to do it. I would want to make sure that my children were taken care of. I have been trying to look into getting a will and setting up life insurance for myself and the like. 

I have a hard time convincing myself that the effects of me being gone would last forever. People move on, time moves on, they eventually get over it and move onto the next chapter. I know my H would, I know my kids would. A generation from now no one would speak my name or remember who I was. These thoughts, which I feel are fact, are most dangerous. I try to counteract them with the visualization I mentioned and trying to tell myself its not true (even though I still think it is). I do believe my family would be better off without me, including my children. I feel that someone else could be a better mother to them. My stronger visualization is of my kids grown, with their own marriages and kids, a new mother in their life, everyone happy and loving a good life. 

Last night my H caught me up alone in the middle of the night. I am up for 2-3 hours alone every night after everyone else goes to bed and he never knew I did that. (I go to bed with him, then when I know he's asleep I get up again.) In a weird moment, I cried and I showed him the cuts on my arm, and told him how scared I am of the thoughts that run through my head. I have never shared that with him before.

He pretty much sat in silence, hugged me and said let's go to bed. So, we did and he promptly rolled over and went back to sleep. No discussion. And things were normal when we got up this morning. So I don't think he hets it. I am embarrassed by my crying and vulnerability last night so I will be happier if he doesn't bring it up again. Knowing him,he wont. He probably thought I was joking or something.

This thread helps me see though that people really are affected long term by this. I have a hard time believing that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

kag, have you been to see a doctor or are you in therapy? 

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I would imagine its a tough place to be in. If you haven't seen a therapist, maybe you should check one out, might not be a bad idea that your husband go along with you.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

A friend from grade school killed himself 2 years ago. His brother found him. They were very close. I cannot imagine find someone like that. My friend suffered physical pain all his life and I just think he mentally couldn't take it anymore. I'll never forget him.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I am not going to get into the topic of suicide. The OP is upset at her sister's behavior now - her lack of empathy.

Any person who endures a great trauma has to find a way to cope with what they've experienced. In many cases, they blame themselves, and I'm sure your sister feels this at a very deep level. She might feel afraid of letting herself be close to someone who might hurt her that way again, so she uses harsh words and callousness to maintain that distance, especially if she previously tried to be gentle with her boyfriend and discovered that it didn't work. 

She's not psychologically in a place where she can be a good source of support to other people, and her behavior can strike others as offensive and cruel, but hopefully you'll be able to understand that she's in a fight for her own psychological survival. It's not a conscious choice she's making but rather, a self-protective one that even she isn't aware of. 

And while you're going through a depression, you're not able to provide the kind of support she needs, either. Do you have other people you can turn to? A counselor or doctor who can help you get through your own difficulties? 

If you see or hear her criticizing others for being "weak," you can counter that with a reminder that being weak means being human and humane. You can tell her that you'd rather have feelings of weakness than to be cold or shut off from others, but that while you do feel weak you'd appreciate her love and support.


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## Jason439 (Jul 16, 2012)

KAG. Please talk to a doctor or counsellor.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

I believe suicide is the ultimate selfish act. The pain they put on loved ones is completely uncalled for and permanent.

I have little sympathy to those who do this. I have much sympathy for those who seek help from suicidal thoughts and especially for doing it in dramatic ways, like the lead story.

Nearly every month there is the local story of someone stepping in front of a train. I always think about the poor engineer who is working to feed his family that now has to live with that picture and since it is so often, pictures of these self centered people who could have done it in a way that saved others from seeing the awful act.

I understand that mental illness plays a part, but there is help out there for those who need it.

This is equivilient to women who give birth and then put the baby in a dumpster, rather than drop it off with no questions asked at a church, fire station, hospital or other Safe Haven locations. Very selfish thinking.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

L.M.COYL said:


> I think this poster has communicated a common opinion, here, and one that instead of decreasing the possibility of self-termination INCREASES IT. Why?
> 
> Our society expects 'strength' and 'soldiering through' mentalities when people are faced with challenges. So, what do you do if you are faced with an insurmountable problem? Soldiering through may not be possible. Self reliance is also popularized so it is not viewed as 'manly' to confide in others. So, what's left to do? These people IMPLODE!
> 
> We need more compassion and understanding not blame and anger; those things lead to more self-termination, imo.


I think that's great. Fully support it. Now please PM me when the world turns into a big pink hippie utopia where everything bends to your weaknesses so that you are less likely to off yourself. Waiting anxiously!

Or instead of waiting for that you can actually work on yourself instead of drinking the kool-aid. Let's face it, the world isn't there to wipe your but. Things are what they are and you either adapt and cope or you get swamped. 

Yes, natural selection is alive and well, even for our technological species. You can't cope you get wiped out. It's not pretty or fair but that's the nature of the beast.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

As someone who came very close to ending things when I was 21 I would not dream for one minute of sitting in judgement on anyone who takes their own life. In my case I was certainly not in a sane state of mind but happily pulled back at the last minute.

The causes of my problems were several but principally the result of eleven years of abuse by my parents. The irony is that they were 'good' people, just terrible parents because completely insensitive.

Yes my mother would nevertheless have been devastated so for that among other reasons I am glad I survived. For me, the main reasons are principally my darling wife and daughters.

Forty years later have never been happier.

I agree about the troubled lady up the thread though. Find help and do not think that people will be happier without you. They will not!


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

I wanted to reply to each and every post but decided to reply in one post. Wow, you guys had some great insight and life experiences that I thank you for sharing. 

What my sister witnessed is something I cannot imagine. The horror of that night will never be forgotten by her, I know that. My family and I have been trying to get her into counseling for years now. She and I have had four hour phone conversations about how she feels, yes she does blame herself because they were arguing right before he did it. He was also HIGHLY intoxicated. Their fight was about his drinking.

Her boyfriend was one of those people that carried around a black cloud everywhere he went. He preferred solitude to human contact. He was a staunch atheist and even got into an argument at Thanksgiving dinner when my brother went to say grace. He was not affectionate, not very sexual, and was never home (she lived with him for five years). 

It seemed like the cards were stacked against this man from birth. He was born to a real crack ***** and his father was in a biker gang who had committed murder but never served time because of the biker DON'T SNITCH OR DIE mentality. As a child, he was left alone while his mother went out and prostituted herself for drugs. He worshipped her though. She committed suicide by gun in front of him when he was 13. He never got over it. Their apartment was like a shrine to his mother. Her collectibles were everywhere, photos, you name it. He was emotionally broken and my sister tried so hard to make him happy. It was exhausting watching her jump through hoops to make this man even smile. 

At his funeral, his ex-wife showed up which upset my sister and her friends. Apparently, he used to say very bad things about his ex-wife to my sister, therefore she hated her sight unseen. However, she pulled my sister aside at the funeral and told her that when they were married, he tried to shoot himself in the head in front of her and she knocked his arm out of the way and the bullet went into the ceiling. No one knew about this, maybe if we did, things could have been different. But "what if-ing" is useless at this point.

My sister is the baby and was spoiled rotten by all of us. I am 12 years older than her and when she was born, both of my parents had to work nights and I was responsible for her. Her crib was moved into my bedroom and I did all the midnight feedings, the baths, getting her ready for school, and everywhere I went with my friends, I had my sister in her stroller. So she was raised by a crazy teenage girl, heavy metal, and horror movies. Even as a small child, she acted like a teenager and her sense of humor was amazing. That kid could make me laugh until my sides split any time she wanted. 

She had a kind heart, a great love for animals, and loved to laugh. She was a bit of a bullsh!tter sometimes. She was always lying about stuff that meant nothing. My uncle is the same way, so we used to say she caught the Billy-Gene. She was my best friend, we were always together. When I moved out, she was 6 years old, and every weekend I would pick her up to stay at my house. 

So yes, I am grieving the loss of that relationship and the loss of the woman (she's not a little girl anymore) who loved to laugh, who told tall tales, and who just wanted to get married to a good guy and have a dozen children. She always wanted to be a mommy. She is 34 now and reacts almost violently when a family member asks her when she plans on having children. Her new boyfriend kisses the ground she walks on, completely opposite of the boyfriend who killed himself. This new boyfriend is like sunshine. He's funny, caring, and the whole family loves him. It was not like that with the other guy. However, it seems like she treats her new boyfriend the way her old boyfriend treated her. And she brags about it. She brags about cheating on him and how stupid he is. 

Some of you know me from the social spot, so you would know that I hold nothing back. She knows exactly how I feel about her new attitude, she knows everything that is in my heart, good and bad. When she gets sh!tty with me, I tell her immediately, it's always been that way. But we have never been sh!tty to each other so this is very new to me.

Okay, about counseling. Remember I said she used to tell harmless tall tales? Well now she tells WHOPPERS. Everything she says is a lie, HUGE lies that are easily seen as lies. She told us that she went to a counselor for grief counseling about 6 months after he died and after spending five minutes with the counselor, he said SHE DIDN'T NEED ANY HELP. SHE WAS STRONGER EMOTIONALLY THAN ANY PATIENT HE HAS EVER SEEN. Whopper. There never was a counselor. Maybe she told this lie to get people off her back about counseling. She has become incredibly narcissistic, claiming she is the most sane person in the world and everyone else is a jerk. My father is an extreme narcissist, so her growing into one is not that surprising. 

I agree she needs help badly. She is losing all of her close girlfriends, she gets mad at them and writes them off as dead if they disappoint her. She told me that me and my husband would be dead to her if we ever told her to "just get over it." 

I get calls from my mother all the time about "blowing her off" and I ask WHAT? My mother will tell me that my sister is upset with me because I do not make an effort to have a relationship with her. I was blown away. She told my mother that she calls me every day and I don't answer. SHE NEVER CALLS ME. She told my mother that every time she posts something to me on Facebook, that I do not respond. SHE NEVER POSTS THINGS FOR ME. As a matter of fact, I post stuff to her all the time and she never responds. Everything is so backward and upsidedown, I feel like I just got off a scary ride at the carnival and am about to puke. 

Could his suicide have triggered the DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR she has now? I get the not wanting to be close to people in fear of being hurt. But the lies bother me greatly. Her lack of empathy, especially towards me is very unsettling, but again, another symptom? She is still in great pain and putting on a brave face. I will never give up on her and never stop reaching out, even if I get bit. `

As for me, I have had a problem with an anxiety disorder for years. I have been in therapy for years and am on anti-anxiety meds.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

It sounds to me like she has a lot of self-hate over what happened. She may have had some underlying disorder that has worsened, but without her seeing a counselor or more info from her, it's tough to say.

She needs to recognize that her ex did what he did because that's WHAT HE DID. Not because of her. The behavior was there before she knew him, when he was still with HIS ex! 

I believe your sister is in crisis mode, but she is resistant to getting help, so your hands are tied. Be alert for signs of suicidal behavior from her. Lying isn't a red flag for suicide, but giving a lot of her belongings away or saying alarming things implying she wishes she was dead are HUGE red flags that you may eventually see crop up. 

The only other possibility - and this is a stretch - is if your family all grow concerned enough to work with a counselor to arrange an intervention type confrontation to urge her to get therapy. However, based only on what you've posted here, I doubt you'll find a counselor willing to assist with this.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

A lot of us in life have been affected by suicide.
The husband of my friend who killed himself many years ago was something I thought about for a long time. And a few years later my friend was able to talk more about it, and share what it seemed ALL of us were feeling --- guilt.

Guilt because we didn't take his words or actions seriously, didn't do something to stop it, or help him more.

That's what I remember most about all of it. And it did make a big impression on me, and cemented my opinion of how wrong it would be for a person to do that, and even though we all may have fleeting thoughts about it, that sure changed my mind. I would have to be mentally insane to choose that. Because I saw what it did. So sometimes it helps others to talk about it. 

My heart goes out to you and your family.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks Kathy. That is how I feel. Like my hands are tied. The family has had MANY discussions on how to help her but she is like a cornered rat. If anyone comes at her about help, etc. she attacks.

Because she lies all the time, I often wonder if she told us the TRUE version about what happened that night. I'm not saying she killed him or anything like that, but if a person lies about EVERYTHING, how do you know if they are telling the truth? Especially about something so gut wrenching and evil?

We had her on suicide watch for quite awhile after it happened. She kept saying she wanted to die to be with him. That she had dreams he was a ghost and was telling her to kill herself to join him. She told me she took a huge handful of Vicodin with some booze to kill herself but she woke up not dead and was angry that she didn't die. To this day I do not know if it is true or not. 

I must keep in mind that this is HER life and she can live it however she wants. I just hope this isn't who she is forever.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Thank you deejov. It's so sad that some people think others would be better off if they were gone. Depression has so many levels, like the rings of hell, all horrible and overwhelming. 

Just talking about this makes me want to call her. 

Okay, I just got off the phone with her. Her spirits are up. I asked her if she had any nightmares of late and she said not really. Perhaps she is really falling in love with her current boyfriend. I adore this guy.

We actually giggled like old times. You know what I think? I think I was so put off by her negative comments I backed away from her so I wouldn't get hurt. Sure, she hasn't called me in months, but I haven't called her in months either.

See why this site is helpful? It helps to work out thoughts and get opinions. I was of a mindset that she wouldn't want to talk to me. Perhaps I demonized her in my mind to make it easier to deal with the loss. Maybe I didn't lose her, maybe she lost me. 

Food for thought.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Sorry OP about your baby Sister. May I suggest that you not share your depression with her right now, the way she is? Her telling you to snap out of it does not help you. I am concerned about you & will pray for you & your family.

Suicide survivor here - My Mother, age 41, leaving 6 children & husband. This woman tried for years to get help & relief & it didn't work.

People that wish to kill themselves are NOT selfish. They are in the WORST pain of their lives & want it to STOP. For those of you who have never been there & feel that suicide is selfish, I only feel sorry for you & your lack of empathy.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear about your mother Emerald. 41 years old? She had so much life to live. The pain they must feel would cripple you or I. Sometimes I think suicide is in their DNA, like a disease. I have known families where the men of different generations killed themselves with the same rifle passed down through the family. There is a lot we do not know about the suicidal mind.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

i dont condone suicide. But i have never been dead. so personally i cant say if it is bad or not.
If there is a hell and you hold any religous convictions, well then there could be ramifications of suicide. 
If you dont have a belief in a judgement, well i really couldnt give advice on why not to kill yourself. i have never been dead.
i believe it is a personal choice, people make. We had a neighbor kill himself. i pretty much told him the above for my thoughts before hand. His family is suffering the loss, of course. But i think some things, or at least one thing in your life you should be able to be able to do without being called selfish. you come into the world, you go out of the world alone. No one is going with you on that trip. Thats it. We all will end up dead. Perhaps it is peoples fear of death, that makes them so upset over the idea of someone committing suicide. So final. So tabboo. So against the instinct for survival.
But i consider it a persons right to self exterminate. I cant call it selfish, as i think a person deserves at least that much respect. To decide how they choose to leave this world and when. Whatever afterlife or God there is, the ramifications of that decision are theirs to account for. 
For the ones left behind, i hold no advice. Except accept a person makes a choice. And we all end up there.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

My father commited suicide after many attempts.
I can very much relate to alot of the things you have said about you sister, I got angrier than i could have every imagined (at everything and everyone), I felt like everyone was my enemy, I despised the thought of counseling (had to got to a couple of sessions but came out feeling even more hopeless/angry) and went totally numb to most feelings. 
Empathy pretty much went out of the window (my nan's brother died and I was next to her when she was crying her eyes out, I knew what happened was bad would have felt bad before but I felt absolutly nothing). There's a page I found when I was going through the thick of the grief that helped my quite abit to understand why I was so angry with everything/everyone and may give you some tips on to help/understand you sister.

Survivors of Suicide


wishing you and your family all the best.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Wow abitlost, you nailed it. Shutting down emotionally and going numb must be a coping mechanism that we don't even know we have. After awhile, how do you turn it off? How do you feel again? Those questions are rhetorical by the way. 

I think my sister will be forever altered after what she witnessed, who wouldn't be? I do not share my problems with her, I never have. Anything she knows about my depression comes from my mom telling her. My mother is a bit of a gossip. 

After calling her the other night and laughing with her like old times, I feel a little better. She was also baby-talking her current boyfriend which I have never heard or seen her do before. 

Like I said before, after getting this off my chest and reading your responses, I now believe that I was leaving the health of our relationship to HER. Feeling hurt if SHE didn't call ME. But I never called HER either. She drunk dialed my husband last week, crying, saying that I do not make any effort to have a relationship with her. I was so wrapped up in my own depression I got very angry at her. But she is right. I wasn't making an effort.

I backed away from her so I wouldn't get hurt. She was being cruel to everyone around her, I didn't want to be in her sights. She and I have never really fought or argued. I didn't want to go there with her. 

Perhaps now that my lightbulb has come on, I can make more of an effort. By your various posts and stories, she has reacted normally to what she went through.


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