# Wife Had Affair- Won't Commit to Our Marriage



## Walleye

Hello all,

This is my first post but I have read so many resources. It it has been helpful to see I am not alone and I want help if you are willing. I am 34 and my wife is 31. We have been married 10 years with four children 7 years old and under. We have been together for nearly 15 years, so most of our adult lives. Our first two pregnancies were miscarriages. This may have no bearing but I thought I should include it. 

In full disclosure, I had an affair early in our marriage. This was before we had children. She confronted me. I denied it at first and then had full remorse during that conversation. I thought I was in love but soon realized I was not. I ended it and there is no contact with her. My wife has had full disclosure and has all my passwords. Nothing to hide for the past 8 years. Our children arw too important. I now know she may still resent me for this, but I have been 100% faithful since and she knows this. I don't desire anything else and will never make that tragic mistake again. It never crosses my mind and I block it out due to the pain it caused.

To lay out some history, probably not in order but most recent events, my wife has a family member with possibly terminal cancer. He is like a father to her. She grew up with her single mother and he is her loving uncle. She spent most summers with him and her aunt on the east coast. We live far from there in the Midwest. She has not visited them since her childhood. They have come here for other reunions so she is still in contact with them. After he was diagnosed with cancer, she made a point to go see him. She and her single mother went to see them for 2 weeks. I stayed home and used much of my vacation to watch our children.

I felt some resentment, I felt she left me alone. She did not express any gratitude. She came home and was depressed. Like she was not happy to see me and our 4 children again. I think that is what hurt most. I know this was not supportive of me. I know, but we had a rare fight.

Fast forward to today, she went back to see them this summer. He is not doing well. They were gone for 10 days. She never asked me, she told me she was going. This hurt again. I can support this if it is important to her. It hurt to not be involved, but I understand family is important.

As I am at home and juggle my adorable kids, I worked very hard as I always do on the home. I had a very large project to complete and stressed myself out while trying to do this and the kids obviously got in trouble without supervision. My mistake. We have a few dogs. I was at a point of extreme anger with one dog and threatened to get rid of him. I was venting to my wife via text. She responded horribly and I can see how I was harsh. 

While she was still away, we text some more. Bottom line, she told me she was not sure she loved me any more. I was shocked. Hurt. Immense pain. Nothing could have prepared me for this. I was completed blindsided.

I don't recall all the details after she came home a few days later, but we resumed our normal routine. I have a stressful 8 to 5 job, but she doesn't seem to respect that. I make good money and have primarily provided for our family. She stayed at home and made some money to help. It was nice having her home with the kids. She finished her degree and started a new job in her field several weeks ago.

She has not been willing to say she loves me. I went along with my sadness but stayed strong. During one of our talks, she said she wanted some space. Yes I know this is bad. She said she has always been one to be alone. There is some truth to this from when I met her, but I don?t accept that she has a right to be alone from her family. She said she thought about telling me a story and just spending a weekend at a hotel by herself. She was too worried to ask for time alone like this. This was very odd to me.



Okay, cut to the chase! She tells me her mom wants help with her house over the holiday weekend. Her mom lives with us, I think a very bad idea, and she wanted my wife to go help clean up the house she inherited from her deceased mother. I agree. She leaves Friday night. She was strangely nice to me. She did not say goodbye to the children. She stays one night longer than she first stated.

She comes home and we have a serious talk. o
One thing I ask is when she will know if she wants to work on our marriage. It has been 3 weeks with no movement. I asked weeks? months? How long will it take for you to know if you want to tey? She said 2 days. Okay. It was late I went to bed. I had noticed she had driven more miles than her trip would require by looking at the odometer. I was already suspicious. I had proof of something. I checked her phone that night and found a search to a hotel nearly 100 miles away. I now had proof.

I confronted her that morning. She denied it at first but eventually admitted. She was with a guy she met at school for her recent degree. She said it has been only going on for a few weeks. I don't believe it. She said they did some "stuff" when I questioned more. She said he rubbed her back and they kissed. I find it hard to believe they did not do more and I just got sick typing this. I feel they probably had sex.

I was so cool and calm, I don't know how I managed it. It's a skill I have and she admires. I am also very strong and don't take ****. She admires that. 

She showed no remorse. She smiled, I think out of her control since she didn't know how to react. It has now been 2 days since I have known. He is her chiropractor who also taught at her school. I had to grab her phone to find out who he was. She would not name him.

I did some soul searching and sent her a letter in an email. 

"I love you and I don?t want us to end. I have given my everything to you for most of my adult life. The memories I get to keep are the best I will ever have. I want to run away with you. I would do anything for you. Over the many years, I have actually had had vivid thoughts about giving my life so you may live. As this ran through my head, I would cry out of sadness this might happen and cry from the pure happiness only true love can give. I still feel the same about this today.

I?m not sure if I can forgive what happened, but I?m willing to try. Deep down I know this has been going on for quite some time. I think this is the source of my anger for the past several months. I trusted you so much I never saw it coming, but deep down I knew it all along and couldn't get myself to face it. I am wide awake now. What I think is only fair to let you know is that I can't remain in a marriage with another man involved. I said I will do anything for you, and I will, but I am so sorry...I can not do this.

I want more than anything to be with you, but if that doesn?t happen, I will make it. If you leave, I will miss you dearly. It will be something I never quite get over. Either way, I want you to know that I will make it. I am going to be be strong and happy for our kids. I am going to be strong and happy for myself and those close to me. I am going to take good care of myself no matter the outcome.

If you decide to pursue our marriage, I want to really talk with and truly work to make this a marriage to be envious of. I want to be the husband you never dreamed of. But until then, I don't think we can move forward. I don't think we can talk about us, and I think we need to limit contact between us. It will be painful. However, I want you to feel free to make your decision. Only you can decide."

She has been communicating with him via FB chat. She deletes it and I can not monitor it. Today is day 2, her time frame. She said she talked to him on lunch and ended it. I assume via chat. However, I can see she has still been active on chat since we are friends on FB. I know this is no evidence. We talked today, but she has not shown remorse. She is afraid to be alone and make the wrong choice, but also afraid our marriage will still not be good if she stays. She would NOT commit to work on us. 

What do I do now?


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## LucasJackson

Is he married? If so then the very first thing to do is tell the wife. The second thing to do is stop letting her decide the future. You man up and make that decision. Want to snap her out of this fog she's in? Serve her with divorce papers. There's nothing saying you have to go through with divorce but serving a wayward spouse can work wonders on making it all real for her. It sounds like you work hard and support her. Stop supporting her this minute. Let her see what that's like.

Read up on the 180 and all the other stuff that many other posters will recommend.

Stay strong. No begging, pleading, crying, or any of that crap from you to her. She'll see that as weak and pathetic and will make her sleazy AP look stronger than you. Take ZERO sh*t from this cheater. Good luck.


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## Walleye

I omitted an important item. After the confrontation, we talked in our bedroom in privacy from the kids. After a while, I grabbed her to hug her. I felt close to her. I wanted her. We eventually had sex initiated by me. She seemed very willing. I have no idea why this happened. 

When she spoke tonight, she said one reason she is not ready to try is because she did not feel anything during that sex. I think she was hoping, but she felt it did not revive her love. I said it was a mistake for us to do that. I said I would not expect you to have feelings. This is what happens while in an affair.


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## LucasJackson

Walleye said:


> I omitted an important item. After the confrontation, we talked in our bedroom in privacy from the kids. After a while, I grabbed her to hug her. I felt close to her. I wanted her. We eventually had sex initiated by me. She seemed very willing. I have no idea why this happened.
> 
> When she spoke tonight, she said one reason she is not ready to try is because she did not feel anything during that sex. I think she was hoping, but she felt it did not revive her love. I said it was a mistake for us to do that. I said I would not expect you to have feelings. This is what happens while in an affair.


She's in affair fog. She won't feel anything with you or for you while she's in that fog. You're the old comfortable real life with kids to care for and responsibilities. The AP is her fantasy escape. During the A she won't feel anything for you. That's why you have to crush that affair by any means necessary. This is love, and war. The AP is an enemy of your marriage. Treat him as such. End this A as soon as possible and thoroughly. If he's her teacher then report him to his employer. There are ethics agreements about crap like that. 

Do NOT be passive about this. That'll make you look weak and undesirable to her.


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## EunuchMonk

This is all bad, Walleye. She is in affair fog. She will not just end it. You have to. In these cases, you have to show how serious you are. Implement the 180. https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/ 

Also, you did what is known as rug-sweeping. From reading your post you didn't handle the revelation normally. I mean, people get mad, flip stuff over, and things of that sort. You seem like you went immediately to "I understand why you did it and I want to work on it" mode. This makes you look like a weakling in her eyes. She will most likely continue the affair.

In these instances spouses are like children. If the parents are lax in discipline or "laying down the law" do you think the children will say, "Oh mommy and daddy won't punish me but I will be a good little girl anyway because it is righteous so to do"? No way!

You have to be iron-fisted in this. I am not an advocate of divorce, I'm really not, but you should start - not leaving - but considering what life may look without her. You need to detach from her emotionally. I don't know if this is making any sense.


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## Walleye

He was her teacher, I think, but I know he is her chiropractor. I have thought about reporting this, and I am sure he would face consequences from the medical board. Yes, he is married. Yes, I have all the power but I think she has no idea I do. I am the the dominant personality in our marriage and always have been. She admires this but now says I don't treat her as an equal. It may be due to the fact I am a supervisor, and some peers joking call me a tyrant. This probably carried home with me. 

I do things right and ethnically. I have thought about exposing this to his wife. I can find her and I have online. I have not decided this is the right thing to do. I need solid reasoning to do so. I am not sure he is even the problem, but very good chance he could be.


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## jsmart

A woman with 4 young kids out leaving for days at a time so she can screw around is not worth fighting for. How old is the youngest? 3? Meaning the youngest would have been 2 when she left the 1st time. How a "mother" can do that is beyond me but she's done it. I'm sure the incident last year is when it started. Which is why she came back all different. Your gut was telling you something was off but you chalked all to her stress of dealing with family. Looking back, I'm sure you know she was unfaithful. 

Unfortunately I don't have good news for you. She doesn't want to commit because she wants leave you for the new guy. The fact that she's fine with leaving the kids for many days and is not really happy to see them when she returns tells me new guy is probably whispering about a future together but she may feel the kids will ruin her chance with new guy. In the midst of an affair fog, WWs can be very neglectful toward their kids. They may be in the same room but her heart and mind are with OM. 

Go take a gander at the OW section of Loveshack. 1000s of threads from WWs posting about how bad they want to be with their OM. Many of these women are mothers. It'll give you an insight into the mind of your wife. 

Most men that have affairs are not looking to leave their wife and rarely stop loving her but women are different. Once a woman has given herself to another man, she rarely wants stay with husband. The ones that stay talk about feeling a revulsion toward their husband's touch.
Ask yourself, do you want to deal with that. It is way easier to find another woman to love than it is to win back a WW's heart.


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## EleGirl

Walleye said:


> I omitted an important item. After the confrontation, we talked in our bedroom in privacy from the kids. After a while, I grabbed her to hug her. I felt close to her. I wanted her. We eventually had sex initiated by me. She seemed very willing. I have no idea why this happened.
> 
> When she spoke tonight, she said one reason she is not ready to try is because she did not feel anything during that sex. I think she was hoping, but she felt it did not revive her love. I said it was a mistake for us to do that. I said I would not expect you to have feelings. This is what happens while in an affair.


It is very normal for a couple to have sex during a time like this. Sometimes they start having a LOT of sex. It's called hyper bonding. It actually helps to re-bond as a couple.


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## EunuchMonk

Walleye said:


> He was her teacher, I think, but I know he is her chiropractor. I have thought about reporting this, and I am sure he would face consequences from the medical board. Yes, he is married. Yes, I have all the power but I think she has no idea I do. I am the the dominant personality in our marriage and always have been. She admires this but now says I don't treat her as an equal. It may be due to the fact I am a supervisor, and some peers joking call me a tyrant. This probably carried home with me.
> 
> *I do things right and ethnically. I have thought about exposing this to his wife. I can find her and I have online. I have not decided this is the right thing to do. I need solid reasoning to do so. I am not sure he is even the problem, but very good chance he could be.*


What do you consider a solid reason because I thinking having sex with your wife is solid enough. Plus, by telling his wife it's like you have two pairs of eyes. You can watch your wife and the teacher's wife can watch him.

You're a dominant personality? I don't know you so this may not apply. I know some people I've worked with who were controlling and 'dominant' but it always came across as just pissy and irritating. Not the dominance that just commands respect without even fussing much. Not saying you fit into this mould but you might.

he is the smaller part of the problem and your wife is the bigger part.


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## Walleye

I know I did not react normally. It is messed up and nothing like me. To be fair, I had an affair many years ago. While I was with my wife, maybe 2 years into our marriage. I was in a fog. I know how it happens. I know it's like a drug. An addiction. Something you need, but you find out the terrible consequences. I woke up and fought for her back. I have done what I could to purge this from my memory. It was the worst pain in my life until this. This was before we had children.

This might explain my unusual behavior. Because I get it. Doesn't explain why we had sex though.

Do I have a right to not be understanding? I have caused this same pain to her and she has taken me back and given me 8 more years, of what I thought, a beautiful marriage. She has worked her a** off taking care of our kids. I would come home and and de-stress and have some beers every night. Never drunk or abusive, always caring of our kids. I know I have not been the husband I should have been. I want to change that and she has been told this.


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## EleGirl

If he is married, you need to expose the affair to his wife. This will usually ensure that he never contacts your wife because most men will drop their affair partner once their wives find out about the affair. 

Did he teach any class that your wife took? If so you might want to write a letter to the school about him sexually harassing female students. 

Look at the 180 in my signature block below. Until she agrees to send his guy a no-contact letter and to rebuild your marriage, that is how you need to interact with her.

Sometimes a person goes through withdrawal after an affair so it might take her a bit to come around. It's up to you how long you are willing to wait for her to do this. So do the 180 and start planning to move on without her. If she is lucky, she will wake up before you are totally gone emotionally.

Whatever you do, do not move out of the family home. YOu stay there because your children are there. If she does not want sex with you, she needs to move out of the martial bed. If she asks you to leave, refuse and tell her to leave without the children. She needs a big dose reality.


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## EunuchMonk

Walleye said:


> I know I did not react normally. It is messed up and nothing like me. To be fair, *I had an affair many years ago*. While I was with my wife, maybe 2 years into our marriage. I was in a fog. I know how it happens. I know it's like a drug. An addiction. Something you need, but you find out the terrible consequences. I woke up and fought for her back. I have done what I could to purge this from my memory. It was the worst pain in my life until this. This was before we had children.
> 
> This might explain my unusual behavior. Because I get it. Doesn't explain why we had sex though.
> 
> Do I have a right to not be understanding? I have caused this same pain to her and she has taken me back and given me 8 more years, of what I thought, a beautiful marriage. She has worked her a** off taking care of our kids. I would come home and and de-stress and have some beers every night. Never drunk or abusive, always caring of our kids. I know I have not been the husband I should have been. I want to change that and she has been told this.












Left out that tiny little detail in your first post, didn't ya? Just a tincy-wincy bit of information. Anything else we need to know?


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## Walleye

EunuchMonk said:


> Walleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was her teacher, I think, but I know he is her chiropractor. I have thought about reporting this, and I am sure he would face consequences from the medical board. Yes, he is married. Yes, I have all the power but I think she has no idea I do. I am the the dominant personality in our marriage and always have been. She admires this but now says I don't treat her as an equal. It may be due to the fact I am a supervisor, and some peers joking call me a tyrant. This probably carried home with me.
> 
> *I do things right and ethnically. I have thought about exposing this to his wife. I can find her and I have online. I have not decided this is the right thing to do. I need solid reasoning to do so. I am not sure he is even the problem, but very good chance he could be.*
> 
> 
> 
> What do you consider a solid reason because I thinking having sex with your wife is solid enough. Plus, by telling his wife it's like you have two pairs of eyes. You can watch your wife and the teacher's wife can watch him.
> 
> You're a dominant personality? I don't know you so this may not apply. I know some people I've worked with who were controlling and 'dominant' but it always came across as just pissy and irritating. Not the dominance that just commands respect without even fussing much. Not saying you fit into this mould but you might.
> 
> he is the smaller part of the problem and your wife is the bigger part.
Click to expand...

You ponder whether I am dominant. To answer your question, I am not the type you referred to. I can not stand the irritating or pissy type. They repulse me. I have an uncanny ability to win debates. I don't lose. It is not hard for me. No fuss like you stated. This must be a frustration for my wife. I understand others' points of view quicker than they do and can always refute them with my logic. This is what I mean.

I don't know she had sex with him. I do know she had an emotional affair and they kissed. More? maybe I will find out some day.


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## jsmart

I agree with the others that you must expose. It's not just to fvck up his world but to have another set of eyes on them. He'll be to busy trying to appease his wife to risk pursuing your wife.

She didn't feel anything when you had sex because she's detached from you. Most women are not emotionally capable of having sex with more than 1 man. She's probably hooked on new guy and having sex with you made her feel like she's cheating on her man. Which is why many WWs cut their husbands off sexually. 

Also I'm concerned about your comment about being dominant. WWs will commonly rewrite the marital history but her comment of you not treating her like an equal just stood out when combined with your comment of being dominant. Women like a strong confident man but don't want a bully who treats her like a kid. There's a difference between loving leadership and a person who's a d!ck. Just something to be mindful of.


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## Walleye

EunuchMonk said:


> Walleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know I did not react normally. It is messed up and nothing like me. To be fair, *I had an affair many years ago*. While I was with my wife, maybe 2 years into our marriage. I was in a fog. I know how it happens. I know it's like a drug. An addiction. Something you need, but you find out the terrible consequences. I woke up and fought for her back. I have done what I could to purge this from my memory. It was the worst pain in my life until this. This was before we had children.
> 
> This might explain my unusual behavior. Because I get it. Doesn't explain why we had sex though.
> 
> Do I have a right to not be understanding? I have caused this same pain to her and she has taken me back and given me 8 more years, of what I thought, a beautiful marriage. She has worked her a** off taking care of our kids. I would come home and and de-stress and have some beers every night. Never drunk or abusive, always caring of our kids. I know I have not been the husband I should have been. I want to change that and she has been told this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Left out that tiny little detail in your first post, didn't ya? Just a tincy-wincy bit of information. Anything else we need to know?
Click to expand...

Agree. This was very important and I meant to include in the first post. I had no intentions of leaving that out and I think it changes the whole dynamic. I have utter remorse and did as soon as confronted. I will die with this on my chest. I am not very composed right now but I don't think there are any other details. Regarding my mother in law living with us the past year, I think it has created a wedge. I don't blame her, but I know it has taken away from the very little intimate time my wife and I might have otherwise. She is up near our living room where my wife and I are after the kids go to bed. She only goes to bed shortly before we do. we have no time alone and I do things want to be intimate with my wife with her around.

However, she watches our 4 kids and this saves us more in daycare than my wife makes at work. Financial problems...


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## EleGirl

Walleye said:


> You ponder whether I am dominant. To answer your question, I am not the type you referred to. I can not stand the irritating or pissy type. They repulse me. I have an uncanny ability to win debates. I don't lose. It is not hard for me. No fuss like you stated. This must be a frustration for my wife. I understand others' points of view quicker than they do and can always refute them with my logic. This is what I mean.


Generally, people don't have debates with their spouses. If you are taking discussions when she voices her opinions to be debates that you have to win, I can why she has issues with feeling like you do not consider her an equal. 

Sometimes it's better to hear another's opinion and simply understand it.


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## Walleye

jsmart said:


> I agree with the others that you must expose. It's not just to fvck up his world but to have another set of eyes on them. He'll be to busy trying to appease his wife to risk pursuing your wife.
> 
> She didn't feel anything when you had sex because she's detached from you. Most women are not emotionally capable of having sex with more than 1 man. She's probably hooked on new guy and having sex with you made her feel like she's cheating on her man. Which is why many WWs cut their husbands off sexually.
> 
> Also I'm concerned about your comment about being dominant. WWs will commonly rewrite the marital history but her comment of you not treating her like an equal just stood out when combined with your comment of being dominant. Women like a strong confident man but don't want a bully who treats her like a kid. There's a difference between loving leadership and a person who's a d!ck. Just something to be mindful of.


Very mindful of this. I must have been treating her like a kid and know this is unacceptable. This is why I am not confident and iron fist is appropriate.


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## Walleye

EleGirl said:


> Walleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> You ponder whether I am dominant. To answer your question, I am not the type you referred to. I can not stand the irritating or pissy type. They repulse me. I have an uncanny ability to win debates. I don't lose. It is not hard for me. No fuss like you stated. This must be a frustration for my wife. I understand others' points of view quicker than they do and can always refute them with my logic. This is what I mean.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally, people don't have debates with their spouses. If you are taking discussions when she voices her opinions to be debates that you have to win, I can why she has issues with feeling like you do not consider her an equal.
> 
> Sometimes it's better to hear another's opinion and simply understand it.
Click to expand...

I agree.


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## larry.gray

Your solid reason to tell the other betrayed spouse (OBS) is that it will nuke the affair. When the OBS confronts the OM, the OM will dump your wife hard. He only wanted sure sex, not a relationship. To save his marriage, he dumps her. That will throw cold water on your wife.


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## EleGirl

Walleye said:


> Agree. This was very important and I meant to include in the first post. I had no intentions of leaving that out and I think it changes the whole dynamic. I have utter remorse and did as soon as confronted. I will die with this on my chest. I am not very composed right now but I don't think there are any other details. Regarding my mother in law living with us the past year, I think it has created a wedge. I don't blame her, but I know it has taken away from the very little intimate time my wife and I might have otherwise. She is up near our living room where my wife and I are after the kids go to bed. She only goes to bed shortly before we do. we have no time alone and I do things want to be intimate with my wife with her around.
> 
> However, she watches our 4 kids and this saves us more in daycare than my wife makes at work. Financial problems...


I think that you would do well to edit your first post and add the bit about you having an affair years ago. That's extremely important information. Many people will only read your first post.

Now that we know "the rest of the story", my advice changes some...well quite a bit.

Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. Read it. Do what it says.

From what you describe, like her feeling like you not treating her as an equal, and you two not really spending much time together, there is a good chance that she has never really recovered from your affair.

About half of all BS's end up having what is called a revenge affair. It's a misguided attempt to heal, to level the playing field. When I was recovering from my husband's cheating, I used to have the strongest urges to cheat. I did not even have anyone in mind to cheat with. But some part of my subconscious apparently felt that would get rid of the horrible feeling of being disrespected that I could not get rid of. And the horrible feeling that I was worthless. I know it makes no sense. But there it was eating away at me. I never did have an affair but it took years for that thought to go away.

It's not an excuse for your wife. But it might explain some things.


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## Walleye

EleGirl said:


> Walleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agree. This was very important and I meant to include in the first post. I had no intentions of leaving that out and I think it changes the whole dynamic. I have utter remorse and did as soon as confronted. I will die with this on my chest. I am not very composed right now but I don't think there are any other details. Regarding my mother in law living with us the past year, I think it has created a wedge. I don't blame her, but I know it has taken away from the very little intimate time my wife and I might have otherwise. She is up near our living room where my wife and I are after the kids go to bed. She only goes to bed shortly before we do. we have no time alone and I do things want to be intimate with my wife with her around.
> 
> However, she watches our 4 kids and this saves us more in daycare than my wife makes at work. Financial problems...
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you would do well to edit your first post and add the bit about you having an affair years ago. That's extremely important information. Many people will only read your first post.
> 
> Now that we know "the rest of the story", my advice changes some...well quite a bit.
> 
> Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. Read it. Do what it says.
> 
> From what you describe, like her feeling like you not treating her as an equal, and you two not really spending much time together, there is a good chance that she has never really recovered from your affair.
> 
> About half of all BS's end up having what is called a revenge affair. It's a misguided attempt to heal, to level the playing field. When I was recovering from my husband's cheating, I used to have the strongest urges to cheat. I did not even have anyone in mind to cheat with. But some part of my subconscious apparently felt that would get rid of the horrible feeling of being disrespected that I could not get rid of. And the horrible feeling that I was worthless. I know it makes no sense. But there it was eating away at me. I never did have an affair but it took years for that thought to go away.
> 
> It's not an excuse for your wife. But it might explain some things.
Click to expand...

edited.


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## Walleye

Considering the whole story, and I did not intend to leave this out, what is a recommended action plan? Do I wait it out? Will it take months for her to snap out of the fog? Do we stay living together? I don't know how we can live separately financially. Do I talk about my past affair?


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## EleGirl

Walleye said:


> Considering the whole story, and I did not intend to leave this out, what is a recommended action plan? Do I wait it out? Will it take months for her to snap out of the fog? Do we stay living together? I don't know how we can live separately financially. Do I talk about my past affair?


I gave you the plan of action in my previous post.

*Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. Read it. Do what it says.*

You need to get and read the book because it's too much to post on a forum. But... the book is a quick read so it should not take all that long to read.


.


----------



## Dyokemm

You have not responded to and seem to be ignoring the very pertinent reasons for exposing the affair to AT LEAST this POSOM's BW......you MUST kill the A and get this scumbag away from your WW ASAP if you want any chance to save your M.

You will not be able to try to save your M if he is still interfering in your M......and the best way to get rid of this turd is to tell his BW.

He will throw her under the bus fast in an attempt to save his own worthless a**......and the best way to make sure he STAYS gone is to tell him in no uncertain terms that the next time he f*cks with your M and your kids chance for a stable family in the future, you will expose him to his school administration for having an A with one of his students.

That would be the end of his career....and he KNOWS this.

KILL the A......PERMANENTLY.


----------



## MattMatt

@Walleye you need to get tested for STDS/HIV, and this needs to be done soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sparta

OP you're in charge at work right. You better take charge of the situation instead of being passive about it. Do not beg do not please do not do anything that makes you look weak by not doing anything makes you look weak. First thing you need to do expose everything to everybody that matters. Affairs thrive in secrecy, in the dark Bring the whole affair to light. That means his wife immediately needs to know any governing body that governs his work if he's a chiropractor yes they're not going take this too well. Just as someone said it earlier he just wants sex from your wife. (Expose the affair to his wife) when the APs wife confront him, he's going back off your wife so fast and try to make things work with his wife.

By the way need to knock her out of the affair fog, serve her divorce papers right now. You need to snap her out of the fog. And then do the 180 you read up on all this OK. Try to act calm and cool around her and try to act like you don't care, even if it's killing you. Only talking to her about the kids matters. don't have any other discussions about anything with her, keep her guessing what you're going to do next. But I would get to an a lawyer right now. Have a consultation with a lawyer ASAP just so you know where you stand, and to get all the logistics worked out. So if you have to separate and get a divorce you will be a few steps ahead of her.!!! Good luck


----------



## jsmart

I agree with @Sparta that you should also report this guy at his job as well. I would do everything possible to get him fired or at the very least have the administration reprimand him officially. 

I also agree that the only thing to do with a remorseless wife is file for divorce. Shock & Awe is what your situation calls for. A cold 180 combined with exposure to her family & friends. Have her served at work on the same day that you expose them. Also separate the finances. Some WWs have been known to run up debt to finance an impulsive move. 

Don't telegraph your moves. Do everything with cold precision. Also make sure you don't leave the house or the marital bed. She wants out of the marriage. Let her sleep on the couch. 

The divorce process is takes a lot of time and can be stopped if you see the proper actions from her. Even if it goes through, you can remarry, which is a better in my opinion because it will be a new unsullied marriage. 

Read the threads. The majority of BHs come here for advise and rarely take it. Instead they talk about counseling and trying to nice the wife back. It NEVER works. If she does come back, it's totally remorseless. The few guys who go into cold quick action have wives all of a sudden fighting for the marriage.


----------



## RWB

EleGirl said:


> From what you describe, like her feeling like you not treating her as an equal, and you two not really spending much time together,* there is a good chance that she has never really recovered from your affair.*


Have to agree. Does anyone really recover from an affair? It seems OP wife has been just marking time.


----------



## farsidejunky

Walleye said:


> You ponder whether I am dominant. To answer your question, I am not the type you referred to. I can not stand the irritating or pissy type. They repulse me. I have an uncanny ability to win debates. I don't lose. It is not hard for me. No fuss like you stated. This must be a frustration for my wife. I understand others' points of view quicker than they do and can always refute them with my logic. This is what I mean.
> 
> I don't know she had sex with him. I do know she had an emotional affair and they kissed. More? maybe I will find out some day.


Not trying to offend per se, but you don't sound dominant at all to me. You sound self righteous, which is domineering. There is a distinct difference.


----------



## farsidejunky

Walleye said:


> Very mindful of this. I must have been treating her like a kid and know this is unacceptable. This is why I am not confident and iron fist is appropriate.


There is no faster way to kill an affair than exposure.

That is, assuming you want to keep her, which it sounds like you do.

When you do it initially, she will hate you for it. It also may not work as this may be an exit affair. However, if you want to save your marriage, the only shot is to expose and kill the affair. They thrive in the shadows of secrecy. How fun is a rendezvous in a local motel with her affair partner after she just got done getting an earful from her father?

I can assure you that watching her continue to sleep with her affair partner while you sit on your hands will only embolden her, cause her to lose respect for you, and cause you to lose respect for yourself. 

KILL THE AFFAIR.


----------



## eric1

you first item is to understand your problem. Get her boyfriend's name. 

DO NOT TELL HER THAT YOU ARE PLAYING PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR. PLAY THE ROLE OF DUMB, STUPID AND CONFUSED FOR A FEW DAYS.

You will then collect proof and expose him to his wife and (likely) his employer. Prepare yourself for this now. Many people "fight" this. You need to do this and until you do this you are not serious about ending her affair. 

You need to collect your resources with legal help. He is probably "whispering" to her about her options and she is not stable right now. A lawyer will instruct you on how to properly protect yourself and your children.

Get STD tested and don't have sex with her again. It's both a health and legal risk having sex with her at this point.

You need to come out with all guns blazing. Read through here, you'll see the only ones who emerge from this crap sandwich are those who take decisive, powerful action towards fixing this situation that you find yourself in.


----------



## Walleye

I have started reading the book last night. I am not at work today and plan to read as much as possible today. I asked her how she felt last night, giving her an opportunity to show serious remorse. She didn't have much to say, and I was too tired to even remember what she said.

I found a notebook today she writes thoughts in. She said in this note she doesn't know how else to say it. She is sorry for what she's done, she regrets it. She asked herself if the kids will hate her for breaking up her family. She asks why is life so fricking hard? Why can't she make up her mind! she says.


----------



## Walleye

Thank you Losing him. I think these are the actions I need to take.


----------



## KillerClown

Walleye said:


> I have started reading the book last night. I am not at work today and plan to read as much as possible today. I asked her how she felt last night, giving her an opportunity to show serious remorse. She didn't have much to say, and I was too tired to even remember what she said.
> 
> I found a notebook today she writes thoughts in. She said in this note she doesn't know how else to say it. She is sorry for what she's done, she regrets it. She asked herself if the kids will hate her for breaking up her family. She asks why is life so fricking hard? Why can't she make up her mind! she says.


She is not sorry. She does not regret it. She is just starring in her own movie in her head. Follow LosingHim's advise. Take action, PRONTO.


----------



## farsidejunky

Walleye said:


> I have started reading the book last night. I am not at work today and plan to read as much as possible today. I asked her how she felt last night, giving her an opportunity to show serious remorse. She didn't have much to say, and I was too tired to even remember what she said.
> 
> I found a notebook today she writes thoughts in. She said in this note she doesn't know how else to say it. She is sorry for what she's done, she regrets it. She asked herself if the kids will hate her for breaking up her family. She asks why is life so fricking hard? Why can't she make up her mind! she says.


Stop asking for her remorse. It shows tremendous weakness.

Besides, why would she give it? She has a husband who is sitting on his hands while she sleeps with another man.


----------



## farsidejunky

Read this, @Walleye.



morituri said:


> I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.
> 
> _*Just Let Them Go*
> 
> The end result?
> 
> The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
> let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.
> 
> That is the end result.
> 
> The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.
> 
> Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.
> 
> Nothing else works better or quicker.
> 
> Let them go.
> 
> Agree with them and their feelings,
> "you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"
> 
> Wouldn't that be true love?
> 
> If you really loved your spouse,
> and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
> wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?
> 
> Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
> Just let them go. Give them their freedom.
> 
> You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.
> 
> I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.
> 
> But cheating, no excuses.
> 
> Think about cheating.
> A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?
> 
> Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.
> 
> Fighting the affair? For what reason?
> To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
> What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
> They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.
> 
> And for your last point,
> The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.
> 
> "Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."
> 
> You give them what they want.
> You don't fight them on this issue.
> You agree with their feelings,
> they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.
> 
> You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.
> 
> You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
> you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
> you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"
> 
> I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.
> 
> You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.
> 
> Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them._


----------



## notmyrealname4

Walleye said:


> Our first two pregnancies were miscarriages. This may have no bearing but I thought I should include it.
> 
> In full disclosure, I had an affair early in our marriage.
> 
> To lay out some history, probably not in order but most recent events, my wife has a family member with possibly terminal cancer. He is like a father to her.
> 
> I felt some resentment, I felt she left me alone. She did not express any gratitude. She came home and was depressed. Like she was not happy to see me and our 4 children again. I think that is what hurt most. I know this was not supportive of me. I know, but we had a rare fight.
> 
> Fast forward to today, she went back to see them this summer. He is not doing well. They were gone for 10 days. She never asked me, she told me she was going. This hurt again. I can support this if it is important to her. It hurt to not be involved, but I understand family is important.
> 
> We have a few dogs. I was at a point of extreme anger with one dog and threatened to get rid of him. I was venting to my wife via text. She responded horribly and I can see how I was harsh.
> 
> 
> I have a stressful 8 to 5 job, but she doesn't seem to respect that. I make good money and have primarily provided for our family. She stayed at home and made some money to help. It was nice having her home with the kids. She finished her degree and started a new job in her field several weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> She said they did some "stuff" when I questioned more. *She said he rubbed her back and they kissed. *I find it hard to believe they did not do more and I just got sick typing this. I feel they probably had sex.
> 
> He is her chiropractor who also taught at her school. I had to grab her phone to find out who he was. She would not name him.
> 
> 
> She has been communicating with him via FB chat.





Walleye said:


> He was her teacher, I think, but I know he is her chiropractor. I have thought about reporting this, and I am sure he would face consequences from the medical board. Yes, he is married.
> 
> I do things right and ethnically. *I have thought about exposing this to his wife. I can find her and I have online*. I have not decided this is the right thing to do. I need solid reasoning to do so. I am not sure he is even the problem, but very good chance he could be.





Walleye said:


> Regarding my mother in law living with us the past year,* I think it has created a wedge*. I don't blame her, but I know it has taken away from the very little intimate time my wife and I might have otherwise. She is up near our living room where my wife and I are after the kids go to bed. She only goes to bed shortly before we do. we have no time alone and I do things want to be intimate with my wife with her around.
> 
> *However, she watches our 4 kids *and this saves us more in daycare than my wife makes at work. Financial problems...



What happened in the wake of the first two miscarriages? Did your wife deal with this fairly well? Were you sympathetic? Or, did you urge her to "get over it"? I'm just wondering if this left some resentment behind, in any way, on her part? Even if you were wonderfully supportive; this is the type of event that many women never really get over;even if they subsequently have healthy children. I had an aunt who continued to celebrate the miscarried child's birth date; and so forth.

No-one ever gets over their spouse cheating on them. So, I hope you have fully assimilated that. I don't think revenge affairs are justified. But I wonder if the betrayed spouse never really feels as if full loyalty to their wayward spouse is warranted anymore?? Not that that is "right". Just that emotionally, it's possible.

Your wife going to see her sick uncle (possible cancer, no less), who was like a father to her, was not the time for you to be self-centered, at all. I know you took care of the kids while she was gone (well done on your part); but your wife would have been very fragile at a time like that. I don't understand how her lack of gratitude manifested itself; but that probably wasn't a time for you to expect gratitude.

Don't threaten to get rid of a beloved family pet. Did your kids hear you say this? That's awful.

She should be very respectful of you working so hard so that she and the kids can have a good life. Not being respectful of it is inexcusable. I'm sorry if you haven't been shown appreciation. That wasn't right.

I do not think that it is possible for two adult humans, who have been married; to go to a hotel, and rub each others backs and kiss; and have that be the extent of it. I mean, that's just silly.

Grown-up, sexually active adults meet at hotels to have a full sexual encounter. There's about a 1% chance that they didn't.

The Facebook chat communications need to end immediately and never be resumed. It is disrespectful of her to continue talking to him.

I don't know about reporting him to his school, and his chiropractic authority. I understand why people say you should; but that all has the whiff of revenge to me. He didn't coerce your wife. She's an adult woman who knew what she was doing. I don't see why his _entire_ life should be ruined.

But I *would* tell his wife. She deserves to know. She, like you, should get tested for STI's. Who knows how many other women he has done this with? He may lose his marriage; but that would be his own fault.


The mother-in-law living with you, adjacent to your living room where you guys get your alone time, is bad news. Does her bedroom share a wall with you too 

Your wife should be grateful that you have offered your MIL a home. But, your MIL has reciprocated by providing daycare.

Still, a married couple needs privacy; a sanctuary that they can withdraw to.


How was your sex life before this started with your wife; but after your affair was over. The in-between years. That's important to assess the overall health of your marriage.


----------



## badmemory

Walleye said:


> She asks why is life so fricking hard? Why can't she make up her mind! she says.


Walleye,

You don't give her the luxury of taking her time to make up her mind. If she doesn't immediately stop contact, become transparent and demonstrate remorse; you start the divorce process, separate your finances and implement the 180. Just that simple. Not easy, but simple. If she turns around completely, you can always stop the D.

In regards to your prior affair; that changes the dynamic somewhat. It doesn't change what you have to do, but your approach should show her that you're not "blaming" her. Don't show any anger. Tell her you just want her to be happy and that you understand that your prior A plays a role in her mindset. Tell her that you love her and are willing to give R a chance just like she did. But not while she's actively cheating or refusing to commit to R. If she's not willing to do both, you have to move on with your life.

You make the decisions here about D or R. Not her.


----------



## Walleye

How do I notify his wife?


----------



## farsidejunky

Find her on Facebook, LinkedIn, or other means. Often people will post phone numbers on LinkedIn. Or you can deduce her work number from where she works. 

If she does not work, you need to find her on Facebook and run down her home number.

Do not tell your wife you are exposing. This will give her AP time to try to intercept any messaging attempts, and will also give them time to try to slander you for being "crazy". 

I thought you said you were the take charge type. Take freaking charge. You can do this.


----------



## Hope1964

Walleye said:


> She would NOT commit to work on us.
> 
> What do I do now?


You divorce her. Unless by some miracle she turns herself around and shows true remorse. It's highly doubtful she will.

Why ANYone wants to stay with someone who won't commit to them is WAY beyond me - I will never understand it, no matter what the circumstances.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Expose to his wife, as you have been advised. Tell HER that if he doesn't end all contact with your wife, then you will expose him to the school, his practice, accrediting agencies, etc. Hold this as a trump card. His wife won't want him losing her sources of income. Any hint of contact after that, expose him professionally. I bet your wife wasn't his first time around.

Stop having sex with her. That's her way of distracting and deflecting you away from the current situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walleye

I have contacted the wife through a Web contact form. I want to verify she is the correct person before I text her exposure. I will do this soon.

My wife wrote a letter to me today. In summary she is very sorry for what she did. Regrets it. hates all the people she has hurt. She is scared to lose me. Scared to stay. Said I was the one person she never wanted to cause this pain. It was lengthy, but she said she wants some time to prove to herself she can be better.

I stayed strong. I told her I know what this means and time will only enable the affair. I said I can not continue this pain. we are either married or not married. I said I have a lot of work to do and will start on the paper work.


----------



## LucasJackson

Walleye said:


> I have contacted the wife through a Web contact form. I want to verify she is the correct person before I text her exposure. I will do this soon.
> 
> My wife wrote a letter to me today. In summary she is very sorry for what she did. Regrets it. hates all the people she has hurt. She is scared to lose me. Scared to stay. Said I was the one person she never wanted to cause this pain. It was lengthy, but she said she wants some time to prove to herself she can be better.
> 
> I stayed strong. I told her I know what this means and time will only enable the affair. I said I can not continue this pain. we are either married or not married. I said I have a lot of work to do and will start on the paper work.


You did well. When a cheating spouse says "I need time" or "I need space" it ALWAYS means "I want to pursue a relationship with another person. I'd like you to wait for me in case that doesn't pan out."


----------



## *Deidre*

Not excusing your wife at all, but looks like she never deep down forgave you for cheating in the beginning. Doesn't sound like either of you were ever really ''all in.''


----------



## farsidejunky

You are still taking the wrong approach. Right now, she needs to believe that you are going to divorce her unless she not only quit the affair, but actually pull her head out of her rectum.

I wouldn't believe anything she said at this point. Only actions matter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walleye

farsidejunky said:


> You are still taking the wrong approach. Right now, she needs to believe that you are going to divorce her unless she not only quit the affair, but actually pull her head out of her rectum.
> 
> I wouldn't believe anything she said at this point. Only actions matter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can you clarify your meaning on the wrong approach? Her response was this 

"Sorry you can't trust me and believe me. I know I need to work on me, alone. We do need to talk about how we want to do this with the kids. I think keeping the house, to keep some sort of normalcy in their life would be helpful."


----------



## Hicks

When she agrees that she wants marriage, that is the time you come up with things that will show whether she means it.

1. A no contact letter, she writes, you reivew and send.
2. Agreement to no contact
3. Cell phone and computer transparency.
4. Knowledge that any contact will lead to you filing divorce papers.


----------



## farsidejunky

She wants to separate so she can keep sleeping with her new man.

Your approach should be to have her served. She is still in the fog and involved with him, so anything she says is meaningless.

I would not even talk to her at this point unless she is on her knees begging for another chance.


----------



## Ceegee

Walleye said:


> Can you clarify your meaning on the wrong approach? Her response was this
> 
> "*Sorry you can't trust me and believe me*. I know I need to work on me, alone. We do need to talk about how we want to do this with the kids. I think keeping the house, to keep some sort of normalcy in their life would be helpful."


Real piece of work.


----------



## BetrayedDad

@Walleye



jsmart said:


> A woman with 4 young kids out leaving for days at a time so she can screw around is not worth fighting for.


This.



jsmart said:


> She doesn't want to commit because she wants leave you for the new guy.


This.



jsmart said:


> In the midst of an affair fog, WWs can be very neglectful toward their kids.


This.



jsmart said:


> Once a woman has given herself to another man, she rarely wants stay with husband.


This.



jsmart said:


> It is way easier to find another woman to love than it is to win back a WW's heart.


This.


----------



## farsidejunky

Walleye said:


> "Sorry you can't trust me and believe me. I know I need to work on me, alone. We do need to talk about how we want to do this with the kids. I think keeping the house, to keep some sort of normalcy in their life would be helpful."


"Your actions tell me what you are doing is more important to you than our family. You leave me no choice but to move on."

It is time to expose to her family and yours.

See an attorney.

File.

Let your actions speak for you.

Do not tell her you are doing any of it. Just do it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Allow me to loosely translate this vile cheater speak for you:



Walleye said:


> Sorry you can't trust me and believe me. I know I need to work on me, alone.


I need time to test drive OM's penis to make sure it's a good fit for my V.



Walleye said:


> We do need to talk about how we want to do this with the kids.


I'm going to need you to babysit the kids like a good cuckold while I get laid in ways I've never allow you to do.



Walleye said:


> I think keeping the house, to keep some sort of normalcy in their life would be helpful.


Be ready to move out so OM can take your spot in our marital bed and put his stuff in your closet. You are being replaced.


IT'S OVER PAL, HAVE HER SERVED DIVORCE PAPERS IMMEDIATELY. SHE PREPARING TO ROB YOU BLIND AND TOSS YOU ON YOUR ASS.


----------



## EunuchMonk

Ceegee said:


> Walleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify your meaning on the wrong approach? Her response was this
> 
> "Sorry you can't trust me and believe me. I know I need to work on me, alone. We do need to talk about how we want to do this with the kids. I think keeping the house, to keep some sort of normalcy in their life would be helpful."
> 
> 
> 
> Real piece of work.
Click to expand...

Ikr. It's like she is saying, "sorry you have a problem but that ain't my business."


----------



## badmemory

She is likely testing you. Don't take the bait. But with her response, she's made the decision for you.

Tell her you can't talk about child and house arrangements until you've talked to your attorney. 

Separate her from your bedroom and stop having sex with her.

You can't get her served with divorce papers fast enough. Separate your finances after you meet with your lawyer. Map out your exit plan. Do a "hard" 180. Stay strong.


----------



## Satya

I like how she attempted to neutrally word ownership of the house under the guise of maintaining normalcy for the children.

I disagree with tit for tat under the circumstances, but were I in your shoes, I'd have been tempted to respond, "You're right. The kids and I should stay in the house."


----------



## jld

farsidejunky said:


> "Your actions tell me what you are doing is more important to you than our family. You leave me no choice but to move on."
> 
> *It is time to expose to her family and yours.
> 
> See an attorney.
> 
> File.
> 
> Let your actions speak for you.
> 
> Do not tell her you are doing any of it. Just do it.*


When you cheated, Walleye, did your wife do any of these things?


You said, _"I thought I was in love but soon realized I was not. I ended it and there is no contact with her."_ How long did it take for you to realize you were not in love? To end it?

Realize that exposing her to family and friends, while killing the affair, may also kill the marriage. Especially if they think she is better off that way.


----------



## badmemory

jld said:


> Realize that exposing her to family and friends, while killing the affair, may also kill the marriage. Especially if they think she is better off that way.


I agree. Since you've cheated on her in the past, there's no reason to go scorched earth with the exposure; beyond the POSOM's wife.


----------



## farsidejunky

jld said:


> When you cheated, Walleye, did your wife do any of these things?
> 
> 
> You said, _"I thought I was in love but soon realized I was not. I ended it and there is no contact with her."_ How long did it take for you to realize you were not in love? To end it?
> 
> Realize that exposing her to family and friends, while killing the affair, may also kill the marriage. Especially if they think she is better off that way.


You can't kill what is already dead.

You can't lose what you don't have to begin with.

He did not want more space when he was caught. 

Had she reacted to being caught the same way he did, I would not suggest it.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Dude her plan is to have you out of the house. See an attorney ASAP to protect yourself. 

I don't think you mentioned it in detail. What were the circumstances of your affair? How were you caught? Did your wife find out before or after you ended it? What were your consequences?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60

Walleye said:


> She finished her degree and started a new job in her field several weeks ago.


I don't think she ever got over Walleye's affair. She has been waiting to get her degree and start her career.

This is an exit affair. I don't think she planned the affair, but am fairly sure she did nothing to avoid it. She does not consider herself married. Sorry Walleye but I think the affair just happened to coincide with her plan to leave after she got her degree and started her new career.

At this point all you can do is protect yourself and your children. Your wife left a long time ago.

Consult a lawyer.


----------



## Nucking Futs

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Dude her plan is to have you out of the house. See an attorney ASAP to protect yourself.
> 
> I don't think you mentioned it in detail. What were the circumstances of your affair? How were you caught? Did your wife find out before or after you ended it? What were your consequences?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Get a VAR and keep it on you at all times, you need to protect yourself from a false DV complaint that gets you removed from your home.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Satya said:


> I like how she attempted to neutrally word ownership of the house under the guise of maintaining normalcy for the children.
> 
> I disagree with tit for tat under the circumstances, but were I in your shoes, I'd have been tempted to respond, "You're right. The kids and I should stay in the house."


My POSXW fully expected me to go live at my mothers house indefinitely AND continue to pay the mortgage while she resided in MY house with the kids after I discovered the affair.

I quickly put an end to THAT delusion. Literally laughed in her face, "You want ME to leave and YOU'RE the cheater?!?" Never underestimate the sense of entitlement from a narcissist.


----------



## KillerClown

Walleye said:


> "My wife wrote a letter to me today. In summary she is very sorry for what she did. Regrets it. hates all the people she has hurt. She is scared to lose me. Scared to stay. Said I was the one person she never wanted to cause this pain. It was lengthy, but she said she wants some time to prove to herself she can be better."
> 
> "*Sorry you can't trust me and believe me. I know I need to work on me, alone. We do need to talk about how we want to do this with the kids. I think keeping the house, to keep some sort of normalcy in their life would be helpful*."


Your take on what her letter impies in the first paragraph is not even close to what she actually says in the quote in *bold*.

She is not sorry for her action but for your reaction. She is not interested in working on the marriage but just on her own situation. In her mind, she has already proven to herself that she can DO BETTER THAN YOU. I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't already have an attorney preparing to take everything away from you and the letter is her attempt to buy time.

GET A LAWYER NOW.


----------



## Hope1964

She is going to use the kids against you. She already is, by saying the kids need to stay in the house and they need her.

I totally agree with having a VAR on you at ALL times.


----------



## jsmart

Walleye said:


> Can you clarify your meaning on the wrong approach? Her response was this
> 
> "Sorry you can't trust me and believe me. I know I need to work on me, alone. We do need to talk about how we want to do this with the kids. I think keeping the house, to keep some sort of normalcy in their life would be helpful."


Sounds like she's decided. That's bad because it should have been you deciding. She's got her new job with the degree that you probably helped her be able to pursue. Instead of using it to strengthen the family, she's looking to upgrade to a new man. 

Now that she's come out with it, you need wise up. No more Mr Nice Guy. It doesn't work. You need to lawyer up because I bet my next paycheck that her lover boy is advising her on what moves to make. WWs get icy cold toward their BHs. Doesn't matter your history or that your the father of her kids. You're the enemy. Her new man calls the shots. 

Don't let fear stop you from taking the actions you need to take. Shock and Awe. Expose to family and friends, to POS' wife and to his job. Have her served at work. Do everything on the same day and do not telegraph your punch. This may snap her out of it but to be honest, it sounds like she's done. 

Yes you fvcked up when you had your affair but that should not stop you from taking actions now. Those that would advise you to tuck your tail between your legs should be ignored. Bold action is what is called for. The mother of your children is betraying the family. Not the time to go soft on Benedict Arnold. Full steam ahead to divorce. You can remarry if she remorsefully comes back to you.


----------



## jld

farsidejunky said:


> You can't kill what is already dead.
> 
> You can't lose what you don't have to begin with.
> 
> He did not want more space when he was caught.
> 
> Had she reacted to being caught the same way he did, I would not suggest it.


Let's hear his responses first. We don't know how long it took him to realize he did not love the other woman, nor how long it took to end it. He may well understand his wife's mixed feelings.

OP, you may be feeling strong emotions right now. TAM may be inciting some emotion in you, too.

Please be careful. The actions you take while under the influence of these emotions may have long term effects, especially on your children. Try to keep a cool, rational head. TAM may offer suggestions, but understand that you will be responsible for any actions you take. Make sure you are ready to accept those consequences.


----------



## Nucking Futs

jld said:


> Let's hear his responses first. We don't know how long it took him to realize he did not love the other woman, nor how long it took to end it. He may well understand his wife's mixed feelings.
> 
> OP, you may be feeling strong emotions right now. TAM may be inciting some emotion in you, too.
> 
> Please be careful. The actions you take while under the influence of these emotions may have long term effects, especially on your children. Try to keep a cool, rational head. TAM may offer suggestions, but understand that you will be responsible for any actions you take. Make sure you are ready to accept those consequences.


Be aware this poster has absolutely no experience or first hand knowledge of infidelity.


----------



## TDSC60

jld said:


> Let's hear his responses first. We don't know how long it took him to realize he did not love the other woman, nor how long it took to end it. He may well understand his wife's mixed feelings.
> 
> OP, you may be feeling strong emotions right now. TAM may be inciting some emotion in you, too.
> 
> Please be careful. The actions you take while under the influence of these emotions may have long term effects, especially on your children. Try to keep a cool, rational head. TAM may offer suggestions, but understand that you will be responsible for any actions you take. Make sure you are ready to accept those consequences.


I agree with all except the first sentence.

His affair was over 8 years ago and before any children were born. I don't see how examining the details of that can help the current situation. All aspects of their lives and marriage have changed since then.


----------



## Evinrude58

jld said:


> Let's hear his responses first. We don't know how long it took him to realize he did not love the other woman, nor how long it took to end it. He may well understand his wife's mixed feelings.
> 
> OP, you may be feeling strong emotions right now. TAM may be inciting some emotion in you, too.
> 
> Please be careful. The actions you take while under the influence of these emotions may have long term effects, especially on your children. Try to keep a cool, rational head. TAM may offer suggestions, but understand that you will be responsible for any actions you take. Make sure you are ready to accept those consequences.


Most of this I totally agree with.
I respectfully disagree about "his wife's mixed feelings". From what I've read, she has absolutely ZERO mixed feelings. She wants a divorce and wants everything as comfortable as possible for her and her kids. He is NOT in her future now. She has clearly made her decision and the most important thing is I don't think she loves him. And a woman's love rarely, if EVER, returns for a man once it's lost--- especially due to infidelity.
OP is a fool if he does not seek an attorney NOW.
JMO.
JBJ


----------



## BetrayedDad

She took him back after he had the affair so how is digging into his past relevant at all to this situation? 

If the implication is that his affair affected her decision to have one then the ENTIRE reconciliation was FALSE and she owns THAT 100%.

She mislead him for YEARS while carrying this resentment around rather than divorcing him. OP is not responsible for that if she was faking R.

ANOTHER example of why R is for the birds in 90% of affair situations. She never forgave you OP and never will. Now she backstabbed you. 

Divorce her. Do what she lacked the courage to do. You both fvcked up and now this relationship is too toxic. You both need to start over.


----------



## Walleye

jld said:


> farsidejunky said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't kill what is already dead.
> 
> You can't lose what you don't have to begin with.
> 
> He did not want more space when he was caught.
> 
> Had she reacted to being caught the same way he did, I would not suggest it.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's hear his responses first. We don't know how long it took him to realize he did not love the other woman, nor how long it took to end it. He may well understand his wife's mixed feelings.
> 
> OP, you may be feeling strong emotions right now. TAM may be inciting some emotion in you, too.
> 
> Please be careful. The actions you take while under the influence of these emotions may have long term effects, especially on your children. Try to keep a cool, rational head. TAM may offer suggestions, but understand that you will be responsible for any actions you take. Make sure you are ready to accept those consequences.
Click to expand...

This was a wise post. To all those saying she is using me to watch the kids, lets get the facts straight. She does more for them than I do, but I do my part. She found out about my affair by finding emails. It took me a long time get over it. Not sure on time, but I would say a few months. We went dark, she moved away. I gave her complete transparency to rebuild trust. I understand her position, and this is somewhat unique. 

I received a phone call today from the OM's wife after I text her. She and her H are ten years my wifes senior. They do well financially. We talked for over 2 hours. Wow this was great. I feel so much better. I'm not even going to try to explain it all because we talked ALOT.

He is a real peice of work. She had suspicions since May, the most recent time she confronted him. Her mistake was she had no evidence and I helped with many ideas to obtain this. She now has evidence and will confront him. I don't expect this will save my marriage but agree it needs to happen.

He has done this multiple times for many years. There have been ongoing issues with him since they were together 15 years ago. How they are still together makes no sense. She asks him why he doesn't just leave. She hopes he finds a girl friend he will finally run away with. I told her it will never last and won't happen. He has had to move cities on at least 2 occasions, and she is convinced he has done this with many many more. I think he was even in trouble with the medical field. She is surprised he has not been outed with a harassment suit from a student yet. Seriously, this guy can tell women to take there shirts off at his command as a doctor and teacher in the feild. He likely preys on the young good looking students in college. What a great setup he has. I feel this gave me what I need to feel stronger about my position. This is bad news and I need bold action. His wife and I now have the upper hand. I think it helps me to love her less. And I feel relieved. Do I hope things change and she begs for me back? I sure do. But not now. I will take a lot to change that and she does not need to know I might take her back.


----------



## Walleye

TDSC60 said:


> jld said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's hear his responses first. We don't know how long it took him to realize he did not love the other woman, nor how long it took to end it. He may well understand his wife's mixed feelings.
> 
> OP, you may be feeling strong emotions right now. TAM may be inciting some emotion in you, too.
> 
> Please be careful. The actions you take while under the influence of these emotions may have long term effects, especially on your children. Try to keep a cool, rational head. TAM may offer suggestions, but understand that you will be responsible for any actions you take. Make sure you are ready to accept those consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with all except the first sentence.
> 
> His affair was over 8 years ago and before any children were born. I don't see how examining the details of that can help the current situation. All aspects of their lives and marriage have changed since then.
Click to expand...

I would like to agree with this.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

I only asked about his prior affair background because I know others may point to "all things being equal" and she should get the house and the kids and the shirt off his back. It is in the past and his 8 years of being a good husband he doesn't deserve what's now going down. 

It's also easy to say well he cheated so she gets a free pass. While I disagree with this sentiment entirely, I would like to know what kind of understanding was reached 8 years ago and it can help paint a better picture as to whether or not his actions then can be pointed to now.

EDIT: OP responded in the meantime as I was typing this out 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hope1964

Walleye said:


> This was a wise post.


Great. The blind leading the blind.

The fact you cheated that long ago doesn't have anything to do with her cheating now. And so what if she does everything perfectly as a mother? Guess what - perfect mothers don't blow up their families by cheating on the father!!!!

Dude, you REALLY need to smarten up here and give her what she deserves.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Hope1964 said:


> Great. The blind leading the blind.
> 
> The fact you cheated that long ago doesn't have anything to do with her cheating now. And so what if she does everything perfectly as a mother? Guess what - perfect mothers don't blow up their families by cheating on the father!!!!
> 
> Dude, you REALLY need to smarten up here and give her what she deserves.


He has allowed her to completely blame shift HER affair onto him. 

A common cheater tactic and unfortunately very effective.


----------



## BetrayedDad

PhillyGuy13 said:


> It's also easy to say well he cheated so she gets a free pass. While I disagree with this sentiment entirely


I wouldn't even disagree with that sentiment if it was 8 days later.... but 8 years?!?

She owns the affair 100% now. She led him to believe she took him back, so it's on HER.


----------



## Walleye

I never stated I wasn't going to file. I sure am not going to be forced into it or vice versa by someone I don't even know.


----------



## Hope1964

BetrayedDad said:


> He has allowed her to completely blame shift HER affair onto him.
> 
> A common cheater tactic and unfortunately very effective.


I know. I sure wish I had a dime for every time this happens and the BS ends up sad and lonely for years pining after the WS.


----------



## Hope1964

Walleye said:


> I never stated I wasn't going to file. I sure am not going to be forced into it or vice versa by someone I don't even know.


Have you seen a lawyer?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Walleye said:


> He is a real peice of work. She had suspicions since May, the most recent time she confronted him. Her mistake was she had no evidence and I helped with many ideas to obtain this. She now has evidence and will confront him. I don't expect this will save my marriage but agree it needs to happen.
> 
> He has done this multiple times for many years. There have been ongoing issues with him since they were together 15 years ago. How they are still together makes no sense. She asks him why he doesn't just leave. She hopes he finds a girl friend he will finally run away with. I told her it will never last and won't happen. He has had to move cities on at least 2 occasions, and she is convinced he has done this with many many more. I think he was even in trouble with the medical field. She is surprised he has not been outed with a harassment suit from a student yet.


Tell his wife about TAM and to post a thread. She needs help badly on her codependency to a POS human being also.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

BetrayedDad said:


> I wouldn't even disagree with that sentiment if it was 8 days later.... but 8 years?!?
> 
> She owns the affair 100% now. She led him to believe she took him back, so it's on HER.


Total agreement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walleye

Yes, his wife needs help badly. We plan to stay in touch. I have not contacted a lawyer. Remember this all just surfaced 2 days ago. I don't even know what the cost of this will be.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Walleye said:


> I never stated I wasn't going to file. I sure am not going to be forced into it or vice versa by someone I don't even know.


For Pete's sake, make an appointment with a good divorce lawyer at least. Start weighing your options and accessing your liability. 

This is a prudent and sound advice, given that's where this is headed whether you accept that or not. You need to wake up man.


----------



## badmemory

Walleye said:


> I never stated I wasn't going to file. I sure am not going to be forced into it or vice versa by someone I don't even know.


No one is forcing you to do anything. It's your wife and your life. 

You came here for advice. Most of the posters here have advised you to act decisively and not allow you wife to call the shots. There is a reason for that. It's the best chance to save your marriage. A lot, if not most of us, have been where you are now.


----------



## jsmart

Hope1964 said:


> Great. The blind leading the blind.
> 
> The fact you cheated that long ago doesn't have anything to do with her cheating now. And so what if she does everything perfectly as a mother? Guess what - perfect mothers don't blow up their families by cheating on the father!!!!
> 
> Dude, you REALLY need to smarten up here and give her what she deserves.


How many BHs do we see post here who want to fall on their sword. Yes he had an affair 8 years ago before becoming a father. But now she's a mother and is destroying her family. Sorry, but the good mother award doesn't go to women blowing up their family. Why the OP is so quick to want to take the blame is beyond me. Is he innocent. NO. But his wife took him back and had CHILDREN with him. If she didn't forgive, why did she have kids with him.

Walleye don't put her on a pedestal while making yourself to be a monster. Yes, you were a fvcking [email protected] for having an affair on your wife but for her to do this at this stage of your family is much worse. To betray the father of her kids, the man that made her schooling possible, is such a stab in the back. So she can bang such an old guy. Disgusting.


----------



## Hope1964

Walleye said:


> Yes, his wife needs help badly. We plan to stay in touch. I have not contacted a lawyer. Remember this all just surfaced 2 days ago. I don't even know what the cost of this will be.


I feel for you, I really do, because I've been there. And I will tell you the same thing I tell everyone who has just found out. KICK HER OUT. I kicked my husband out the second I found out. We have three kids, a home, a nice life, and all that but NO FREAKING WAY was I going to have a freaking cheater living under the same roof as me and the kids. Even if she doesn't leave you've sent a VERY clear message. DO NOT PUT UP WITH ANY OF IT. you do NOT deserve it. No matter what you think you need to make amends for at this point. Where she goes is none of your concern.

If more people would just take my advice, there would be a lot less of these types of posts here on TAM :grin2:


----------



## eric1

Walleye said:


> How do I notify his wife?




My name is XXXX : I have some very difficult news to give you and I will keep this short. Your husband is currently in the midst of having an affair with my wife. I have proof of them in a hotel room together and my wife has admitted a sexual encounter. I recommend that you collect your own proof and get tested for sexually transmitted diseases. I understand this is tough for you to hear but trust me, I'm in the same shoes you are. I'll give you a chance to process this, if you would like to talk more please contact me at (private, throwaway email address)."


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Sparta said:


> OP you're in charge at work right. You better take charge of the situation instead of being passive about it. Do not beg do not please do not do anything that makes you look weak by not doing anything makes you look weak. First thing you need to do expose everything to everybody that matters. Affairs thrive in secrecy, in the dark Bring the whole affair to light. That means his wife immediately needs to know any governing body that governs his work if he's a chiropractor yes they're not going take this too well. Just as someone said it earlier he just wants sex from your wife. (Expose the affair to his wife) when the APs wife confront him, he's going back off your wife so fast and try to make things work with his wife.
> 
> By the way need to knock her out of the affair fog, serve her divorce papers right now. You need to snap her out of the fog. And then do the 180 you read up on all this OK. Try to act calm and cool around her and try to act like you don't care, even if it's killing you. Only talking to her about the kids matters. don't have any other discussions about anything with her, keep her guessing what you're going to do next. But I would get to an a lawyer right now. Have a consultation with a lawyer ASAP just so you know where you stand, and to get all the logistics worked out. So if you have to separate and get a divorce you will be a few steps ahead of her.!!! Good luck


You cannot nice them back. Sparta has given you solid advice. Expose and detach from her. It is highly probable she will be running back to you.


----------



## *Deidre*

Why I don't think people should reveal things to people they don't know is suppose the OM in this case beats her or worse...kills her? You don't know. People do crazy things these days, we see it in the news all the time. I wouldn't expose anyone. I would just immediately separate, and figure out life from there. I ''understand'' the exposure idea, but I couldn't live with myself if I were to expose the affair to someone who would snap and hurt the person. That's just me.


----------



## jld

*Deidre* said:


> Why I don't think people should reveal things to people they don't know is suppose the OM in this case beats her or worse...kills her? You don't know. People do crazy things these days, we see it in the news all the time. I wouldn't expose anyone. I would just immediately separate, and figure out life from there. I ''understand'' the exposure idea, but I couldn't live with myself if I were to expose the affair to someone who would snap and hurt the person. That's just me.


I agree. It's a very risky idea. 

I would not be surprised if someday there would be legal consequences to it.


----------



## *Deidre*

jld said:


> I agree. It's a very risky idea.
> 
> I would not be surprised if someday there would be legal consequences to it.


Yea, that's true, too. Plus, seems like an act of revenge, more than anything. I get why some here did it, but it is a risky idea, and if your spouse comes running back to you, nothing has changed. You still have the same mess, that *one* affair just ended. The core problem still exists, that you are married to a cheater. I don't believe in forcing someone to feel shame or remorse. It's either genuine or it isn't. Idk, this is just my thought. Just don't agree with the whole ''exposure'' thing.


----------



## TDSC60

*Deidre* said:


> Why I don't think people should reveal things to people they don't know is suppose the OM in this case beats her or worse...kills her? You don't know. People do crazy things these days, we see it in the news all the time. I wouldn't expose anyone. I would just immediately separate, and figure out life from there. I ''understand'' the exposure idea, but I couldn't live with myself if I were to expose the affair to someone who would snap and hurt the person. That's just me.


What may happen as a result of your actions is not a sure thing. She chose her path out of selfishness. Now she faces the consequences of those actions.

Letting fear of the future define and control you is a mistake.


----------



## Quality

*Deidre* said:


> Yea, that's true, too. Plus, seems like an act of revenge, more than anything. I get why some here did it, but it is a risky idea, and if your spouse comes running back to you, nothing has changed. You still have the same mess, that *one* affair just ended. The core problem still exists, that you are married to a cheater. I don't believe in forcing someone to feel shame or remorse. It's either genuine or it isn't. Idk, this is just my thought. Just don't agree with the whole ''exposure'' thing.


Exposure isn't risky and "if your spouse comes running back to you" something HAS changed ~~~ the affair is busted up and you're at ground zero of an opportunity to recover your marriage or not recover your marriage. Otherwise, the affair continues ~ recovery progress is impossible.

Even if you don't recover your marriage the last thing this poster's 4 kids need is a completely wayward mom running around with some lunatic OM (a guy running around with a married woman is a tool and probably a predator). If ending the marriage is your choice, might as well get rid of OM in the process. 

Exposure throws water on the affair and is always the right first call. If you want to save your marriage and save your spouse {not punish them} you confront them {and tell the other cheater's betrayed spouse}, then talk to your priest, pastor, minister {if your religious and especially if they have any position of leadership among other Christians} and then you bring in a couple family members or close influential friends and if that doesn't work, you immediately and without any warning tell everyone including their workplaces and bosses. Cheaterreport dot com and other exposure websites are great too. Be sure to copy all of OM's facebook friends and blast them a facebook message as well. 

Marriages survive exposure but affairs that don't end always kill marriages and destroy families. The negative {risks} you cite {violence} rarely happens. OM's slither away and you wouldn't be responsible for it as that would be the cheater's faults {affairs create violent situations and the risk of violence gets bigger the longer the affair continues}. Most of the risk is the wayward being so mad they try to divorce making it all about the exposure but that risk actually helps the betrayed spouse more readily measure the true repentance of the wayward. Any wayward that blames exposure as a reason they can't or won't recover isn't a cheater worth recovering with. I always recommend doing whatever it takes to save a cheater from themselves and they should be appreciative of the effort in the long run {it may take some time but they need to remember it ain't all that smashing to expose yourself as a betrayed spouse that wants to recover either}. 

If you know you don't want to recover ~ expose strategically to hopefully eliminate the affair partner from your soon to be x spouse's life {and the life of your children} but be careful you don't hurt your custody and divorce negotiations. The other betrayed spouse still has to be told. 

Last ~ this isn't the wayward cheater's secret that you need to keep or you're some kind of rat. This is your life too and your spouse cheating will have lasting effects on you. Not telling people is like not telling people you were raped or have a broken leg. It's YOUR injury and you need emotional support too. Affairs are risky, choosing to recover is risky ~~~ exposure, not so much because the alternative {saying nothing} is merely enabling the affair and completely destructive to everyone involved {the cheater's included ~ they won't 'grow'  until they hit rock bottom}.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

*Deidre* said:


> Why I don't think people should reveal things to people they don't know is suppose the OM in this case beats her or worse...kills her? You don't know. People do crazy things these days, we see it in the news all the time. I wouldn't expose anyone. I would just immediately separate, and figure out life from there. I ''understand'' the exposure idea, but I couldn't live with myself if I were to expose the affair to someone who would snap and hurt the person. That's just me.


 But you could live with leaving the other BS in the dark? Leaving her to unwittingly being exposed to STDs along with her kids, as well as possible financial ruin from not being able to get her ducks in a row with a cheater husband.This happens EVERYTIME, unlike the minuscule scenario you deem too important to tell the OBS over. Not much moral high ground in that. The fact that JLD agrees with you should tell you something.


----------



## Walleye

I wanted to give an update. She has shown complete remorse. She has always been terribIe at expressing her feelings, but no excuse for prior behavior or reaction from the admission. I blew up on her just before she started balling and showed remorse.

Earlier, She had a panic attack when at work I told her we are proceeding with divorce. Told her this is her mistake to own. She thought about the kids but still made a mistake. 

I was able to persuade all the details from her about the affair. I can tell this was honest. She answered the questions I had to know answers to for my own reasons. I don't want to wonder for the rest of my life, with her or without her. It was not good but didn't change the magnitude of what happened. I asked if she wanted to know more about him. I thought it would help her realize how terrible of situation she was in. She did want to know more. I told her all about him, and it was very bad stuff. I hope honestly did it out of care for her well being. I think she knows this as true.

She had already told him it was over 2 days ago. I do not have proof. However, his wife had acknowledged how depressed he was the past 2 days. This makes it plausible. She did this on her own accord. She is terrible for what she did, but this does not mean she can't do something right too. I know from experience.

Will I still procedure with divorce? I don't know. I committed to her to protect her and love her in my vows. I meant it. A true man will do what is best for others before himself. It's sad how quickly some emphatically state a divorce must be served. I recognize this is a great tactic, and even a fair one. I think it woke her up. However, It's not possible for one to explain in this forum the big picture of a marriage. I have seen a lot of great advice, but I think we have to be more careful. People in this situation are vulnerable and highly likely to make a huge mistakes, on possibly bad information. Likely the OP may have omitted very important details. 

My goal has always been to have her come back. Go through the grieving. Only reconcile if boundaries are in place to make a great marriage. These boundaries will be an ultimatum in my head and will not be refused. I still have hope. I may just make this a marriage to be envious of. You can tell me I'm a fool. You can tell me to be careful. Tell me NO this a mistake! I will listen and consider all thoughts. I know many here really want to help.


----------



## Quality

Another concept.

This is just a estimation on my part but I would bet that most violence surrounding infidelity occurs

First, when the betrayed spouse finds out {especially if they discover it in person}; and

Second, when the infidels are trying to keep the secret and manipulate others into not talking or exposing.

Once the truth is exposed, there may be the occasional violence as one or more of the cheaters try to save the affair relationship that they thought was more than it was or due to the shame of exposure {suicides mostly}.

But once the truth is out there, there generally isn't a reason to attack the betrayed spouse anymore to try to keep him/her quiet. The other person usually KNOWS they are behaving like a dog and aren't motivated to attack the betrayed spouse they've already injured enough so, again, in my estimation, NOT exposing increases the likelihood that something bad might happen to the betrayed spouse which could allow the infidels to ride off into the sunset together unencumbered by your inconvenient breathing and need for 50% or more of your money. Once the truth is out ~ murdering motives becomes too obvious even for the biggest imbeciles to try it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Walleye said:


> I wanted to give an update. She has shown complete remorse. She has always been terribIe at expressing her feelings, but no excuse for prior behavior or reaction from the admission. I blew up on her just before she started balling and showed remorse.
> 
> Earlier, She had a panic attack when at work I told her we are proceeding with divorce. Told her this is her mistake to own. She thought about the kids but still made a mistake.
> 
> I was able to persuade all the details from her about the affair. I can tell this was honest. She answered the questions I had to know answers to for my own reasons. I don't want to wonder for the rest of my life, with her or without her. It was not good but didn't change the magnitude of what happened. I asked if she wanted to know more about him. I thought it would help her realize how terrible of situation she was in. She did want to know more. I told her all about him, and it was very bad stuff. I hope honestly did it out of care for her well being. I think she knows this as true.
> 
> She had already told him it was over 2 days ago. I do not have proof. However, his wife had acknowledged how depressed he was the past 2 days. This makes it plausible. She did this on her own accord. She is terrible for what she did, but this does not mean she can't do something right too. I know from experience.
> 
> Will I still procedure with divorce? I don't know. I committed to her to protect her and love her in my vows. I meant it. A true man will do what is best for others before himself. *It's sad how quickly some emphatically state a divorce must be served. I recognize this is a great tactic, and even a fair one. I think it woke her up. However, It's not possible for one to explain in this forum the big picture of a marriage. I have seen a lot of great advice, but I think we have to be more careful. People in this situation are vulnerable and highly likely to make a huge mistakes, on possibly bad information. Likely the OP may have omitted very important details.*
> 
> My goal has always been to have her come back. Go through the grieving. Only reconcile if boundaries are in place to make a great marriage. These boundaries will be an ultimatum in my head and will not be refused. I still have hope. I may just make this a marriage to be envious of. You can tell me I'm a fool. You can tell me to be careful. Tell me NO this a mistake! I will listen and consider all thoughts. I know many here really want to help.


I think if you go back and re-read the advice you were given you'll find you were being told to file and serve her as a way to shock her out of the fog. In fact you'll see the phrase "shock and awe" used. A swift, strong response frequently works wonders. And when it doesn't help you're that much ahead in the divorce process. I don't think anyone on TAM would tell you you have to divorce a remorseful former wayward. Just make sure it's remorse, not regret, and the former wayward is truly former.


----------



## Quality

Walleye said:


> I wanted to give an update. She has shown complete remorse. She has always been terribIe at expressing her feelings, but no excuse for prior behavior or reaction from the admission. I blew up on her just before she started balling and showed remorse.
> 
> Earlier, She had a panic attack when at work I told her we are proceeding with divorce. Told her this is her mistake to own. She thought about the kids but still made a mistake.
> 
> I was able to persuade all the details from her about the affair. I can tell this was honest. She answered the questions I had to know answers to for my own reasons. I don't want to wonder for the rest of my life, with her or without her. It was not good but didn't change the magnitude of what happened. I asked if she wanted to know more about him. I thought it would help her realize how terrible of situation she was in. She did want to know more. I told her all about him, and it was very bad stuff. I hope honestly did it out of care for her well being. I think she knows this as true.
> 
> She had already told him it was over 2 days ago. I do not have proof. However, his wife had acknowledged how depressed he was the past 2 days. This makes it plausible. She did this on her own accord. She is terrible for what she did, but this does not mean she can't do something right too. I know from experience.
> 
> Will I still procedure with divorce? I don't know. I committed to her to protect her and love her in my vows. I meant it. A true man will do what is best for others before himself. It's sad how quickly some emphatically state a divorce must be served. I recognize this is a great tactic, and even a fair one. I think it woke her up. However, It's not possible for one to explain in this forum the big picture of a marriage. I have seen a lot of great advice, but I think we have to be more careful. People in this situation are vulnerable and highly likely to make a huge mistakes, on possibly bad information. Likely the OP may have omitted very important details.
> 
> My goal has always been to have her come back. Go through the grieving. Only reconcile if boundaries are in place to make a great marriage. These boundaries will be an ultimatum in my head and will not be refused. I still have hope. I may just make this a marriage to be envious of. You can tell me I'm a fool. You can tell me to be careful. Tell me NO this a mistake! I will listen and consider all thoughts. I know many here really want to help.



Lately there has been a big contingent of the kick them to the curb ~ reconciliation isn't possible crowd here.

I'm recovered two decades. 

You were recovered 8 years. 

It does happen and you CAN make {edit= not 'make' but "result in'} your marriage becoming great.

Serving divorce papers as a tactic to save your marriage doesn't work.

Someone said you can't nice them back ~~ you can ESPECIALLY when you had an affair previously and you fully understand the dynamics and what forgiveness and repentance already look like.

Your prior affair doesn't give her a free pass but I'd expect her to use it. Maybe you can discuss forgiveness with her and how if she truly forgave you {as she wants you to truly forgive her} then shouldn't your past sins be as "far from the east as the west"?. I'm sure your recovery probably needs you to do some cleaning up on your side of the sidewalk especially with relation to that affair 8 years ago but TOGETHER you can really take this opportunity {crappy as it is} to overcome anything.

No contact is essential right now. I just posted all about exposure and you two probably do need to talk to your religious leader {if any} and get some accountability partners {a close couple friend that is fully supportive of your marriage} to walk along side you both. Full exposure is for if and when she ever resumes or continues contact with OM. Sure she SAID she ended it but the draw of affair is compulsive and she may even THINK she needs to talk to him one last time to scold him about lying to her but that doesn't have to happen and she needs to talk to you about her feelings and not him ever again. No contact is the most important thing right now. Not her remorse or grovelling. Remorse and repentance are a process ~ not an event and something she'll feel more and more of as she falls back in love with you through this recovery process.


----------



## *Deidre*

Rubix Cubed said:


> But you could live with leaving the other BS in the dark? Leaving her to unwittingly being exposed to STDs along with her kids, as well as possible financial ruin from not being able to get her ducks in a row with a cheater husband.This happens EVERYTIME, unlike the minuscule scenario you deem too important to tell the OBS over. Not much moral high ground in that. The fact that JLD agrees with you should tell you something.


But, we all assume the affair will end. I think I read a story here where the affair didn't end, and the BS ended up divorcing, eventually. So, it's not always a given. But, I see your point. I can't imagine dealing with this in a marriage, it would be a nightmare. I'd want to just throw all of his things out, lock the doors and change the locks the next day. Block his phone number and call a lawyer.


----------



## *Deidre*

Quality said:


> Exposure isn't risky and "if your spouse comes running back to you" something HAS changed ~~~ the affair is busted up and you're at ground zero of an opportunity to recover your marriage or not recover your marriage. Otherwise, the affair continues ~ recovery progress is impossible.
> 
> Even if you don't recover your marriage the last thing this poster's 4 kids need is a completely wayward mom running around with some lunatic OM (a guy running around with a married woman is a tool and probably a predator). If ending the marriage is your choice, might as well get rid of OM in the process.
> 
> Exposure throws water on the affair and is always the right first call. If you want to save your marriage and save your spouse {not punish them} you confront them {and tell the other cheater's betrayed spouse}, then talk to your priest, pastor, minister {if your religious and especially if they have any position of leadership among other Christians} and then you bring in a couple family members or close influential friends and if that doesn't work, you immediately and without any warning tell everyone including their workplaces and bosses. Cheaterreport dot com and other exposure websites are great too. Be sure to copy all of OM's facebook friends and blast them a facebook message as well.
> 
> Marriages survive exposure but affairs that don't end always kill marriages and destroy families. The negative {risks} you cite {violence} rarely happens. OM's slither away and you wouldn't be responsible for it as that would be the cheater's faults {affairs create violent situations and the risk of violence gets bigger the longer the affair continues}. Most of the risk is the wayward being so mad they try to divorce making it all about the exposure but that risk actually helps the betrayed spouse more readily measure the true repentance of the wayward. Any wayward that blames exposure as a reason they can't or won't recover isn't a cheater worth recovering with. I always recommend doing whatever it takes to save a cheater from themselves and they should be appreciative of the effort in the long run {it may take some time but they need to remember it ain't all that smashing to expose yourself as a betrayed spouse that wants to recover either}.
> 
> If you know you don't want to recover ~ expose strategically to hopefully eliminate the affair partner from your soon to be x spouse's life {and the life of your children} but be careful you don't hurt your custody and divorce negotiations. The other betrayed spouse still has to be told.
> 
> Last ~ this isn't the wayward cheater's secret that you need to keep or you're some kind of rat. This is your life too and your spouse cheating will have lasting effects on you. Not telling people is like not telling people you were raped or have a broken leg. It's YOUR injury and you need emotional support too. Affairs are risky, choosing to recover is risky ~~~ exposure, not so much because the alternative {saying nothing} is merely enabling the affair and completely destructive to everyone involved {the cheater's included ~ they won't 'grow'  until they hit rock bottom}.


Why do you all presume that the WS has no idea what they're doing? Maybe you're married to a jerk, maybe that is what some here should realize, and let it go, move on, heal and realize that there's more to life than drowning in the lies and drama of a WS. 

I do hear you, but I just disagree.


----------



## Evinrude58

The divorce MUST be served, but it doesn't have to be completed. If you even consider letting her know you aren't serious about divorcing her, you are messing up.
You don't have to divorce, but you had darned well better make her think you WILL divorce her.

I personally think that since this guy is married, she has accepted that her plan b guy, you, is the only viable option. Surely you know every time she left for the weekend she was having sex with her AP?
I don't trust that it is remorse yet, by a long shot. I do trust that you are hoping/wishing it was remorse.
I wish you luck, but I'm worried for you. My ex never even faked remorse. So I envy you.

If she broke it off in her own, that's a good sign. If she wants to spend lots of time with you, good sign. Her initiating sex with YOU, good sign, but may be manipulation. 
Boohooing..... Not necessarily. May be sadness over losing her AP, not really over hurting you.

You are the one that has to de i.e. If she's truly remorseful. Doing whatever it takes to make things right with you at HER expense, her effort-- that's remorse. 
I hope you are as strong as you say you are, and gauge her remorse without letting your desire to reconcile override your judgement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

Quality said:


> Exposure isn't risky and "if your spouse comes running back to you" something HAS changed ~~~ the affair is busted up and you're at ground zero of an opportunity to recover your marriage or not recover your marriage. Otherwise, the affair continues ~ recovery progress is impossible.
> 
> Even if you don't recover your marriage the last thing this poster's 4 kids need is a completely wayward mom running around with some lunatic OM (a guy running around with a married woman is a tool and probably a predator). If ending the marriage is your choice, might as well get rid of OM in the process.
> 
> Exposure throws water on the affair and is always the right first call. If you want to save your marriage and save your spouse {not punish them} you confront them {and tell the other cheater's betrayed spouse}, then talk to your priest, pastor, minister {if your religious and especially if they have any position of leadership among other Christians} and then you bring in a couple family members or close influential friends and if that doesn't work, you immediately and without any warning tell everyone including their workplaces and bosses. Cheaterreport dot com and other exposure websites are great too. Be sure to copy all of OM's facebook friends and blast them a facebook message as well.
> 
> Marriages survive exposure but affairs that don't end always kill marriages and destroy families. The negative {risks} you cite {violence} rarely happens. OM's slither away and you wouldn't be responsible for it as that would be the cheater's faults {affairs create violent situations and the risk of violence gets bigger the longer the affair continues}. Most of the risk is the wayward being so mad they try to divorce making it all about the exposure but that risk actually helps the betrayed spouse more readily measure the true repentance of the wayward. Any wayward that blames exposure as a reason they can't or won't recover isn't a cheater worth recovering with. I always recommend doing whatever it takes to save a cheater from themselves and they should be appreciative of the effort in the long run {it may take some time but they need to remember it ain't all that smashing to expose yourself as a betrayed spouse that wants to recover either}.
> 
> If you know you don't want to recover ~ expose strategically to hopefully eliminate the affair partner from your soon to be x spouse's life {and the life of your children} but be careful you don't hurt your custody and divorce negotiations. The other betrayed spouse still has to be told.
> 
> Last ~ this isn't the wayward cheater's secret that you need to keep or you're some kind of rat. This is your life too and your spouse cheating will have lasting effects on you. Not telling people is like not telling people you were raped or have a broken leg. It's YOUR injury and you need emotional support too. Affairs are risky, choosing to recover is risky ~~~ exposure, not so much because the alternative {saying nothing} is merely enabling the affair and completely destructive to everyone involved {the cheater's included ~ they won't 'grow'  until they hit rock bottom}.


This.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

jld said:


> I agree. It's a very risky idea.
> 
> I would not be surprised if someday there would be legal consequences to it.


God forbid there are legal consequences for f--king someone else's spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Evinrude58

*Deidre* said:


> Why do you all presume that the WS has no idea what they're doing? Maybe you're married to a jerk, maybe that is what some here should realize, and let it go, move on, heal and realize that there's more to life than drowning in the lies and drama of a WS.
> 
> I do hear you, but I just disagree.


Deidre,
Until it happens to you--- you have no idea what you'd do or how you'd feel. Have kids and invest your life in someone for 20 years thinking you know them like you know yourself and then--- bam! You find out it's all over and you've wasted your best years? Trust me, the BS hopes for remorse. Hopes to rebuild what they had. You're right that it basically isn't going to happen often, but everyone wants to be the exception to the rule. I did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58

Good luck walleye.


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## *Deidre*

Evinrude58 said:


> Deidre,
> Until it happens to you--- you have no idea what you'd do or how you'd feel. Have kids and invest your life in someone for 20 years thinking you know them like you know yourself and then--- bam! You find out it's all over and you've wasted your best years? Trust me, the BS hopes for remorse. Hopes to rebuild what they had. You're right that it basically isn't going to happen often, but everyone wants to be the exception to the rule. I did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know it's hard for me to put myself in your shoes, you didn't waste your years. Sometimes people just change. And they'll never be who you thought they were again. I think that from what I can tell here, is that affairs offer the BS a chance to grow on their own, and not rely so much on the WS for validation. 

These threads make me sad.  My heart goes out to you all who have been cheated on like this.


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## PhillyGuy13

Well, it feels like a lot of progress was made in 24 hours. Good luck Walleye!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky

Speaking as a Moderator:

Limit the discussion to the OP instead of debating the merits of others opinions. The easiest way to do so is to address comments and questions to him rather than other posters with whom you may disagree.

If you find that is necessary, create a separate thread.


----------



## jsmart

Nucking Futs said:


> I think if you go back and re-read the advice you were given you'll find *you were being told to file and serve her as a way to shock her out of the fog. * In fact you'll see the phrase "shock and awe" used. *A swift, strong response frequently works wonders. * And when it doesn't help you're that much ahead in the divorce process. *I don't think anyone on TAM would tell you you have to divorce a remorseful former wayward. Just make sure it's remorse, not regret, and the former wayward is truly former*.


Hmn, you expose to POS' wife and today your wife has a "breakdown." Most men don't leave their faithful wife for a cheating wife with another man's kids but the fact that your wife is at least 10 years younger, could've had POS planning a future together. Much younger pvssy has a way to influence a man's thinking. Many MM will talk about running off together but have no plan of following through but the MW, eat that sh!t up. 

Being confronted by his BW may have caused POS to throw cold water on their future plans, hence your wife's emotional breakdown. It may not have been remorse for betraying you and the family but regret that her plans have been dashed.

You want to make POS life a living hell. Let him really rue the day he decided to pursue your wife and mother of your kids. I advise that you still officially file a complaint to the HR / administration. As for your wife, she has to give you complete transparency. phone, tablet, laptop, email, social media access. 

I normally advise BHs to file D for PAs but since you also did this to her many years ago, there can be a way forward but ONLY if she's truly remorseful. I'm going to advise you get and both read "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair." I say both of you because even though your affair was 8 year ago, their may be some work you have to do as well. I also recommend you get "Married Man Sex Life Primer." This last one is a guide for you on becoming a better man and thus a better husband.

I advise you to make her get an STD test. One to be sure and two for humiliation. Just another thing for her to know how low she went.


----------



## Walleye

jsmart said:


> Nucking Futs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think if you go back and re-read the advice you were given you'll find *you were being told to file and serve her as a way to shock her out of the fog. * In fact you'll see the phrase "shock and awe" used. *A swift, strong response frequently works wonders. * And when it doesn't help you're that much ahead in the divorce process. *I don't think anyone on TAM would tell you you have to divorce a remorseful former wayward. Just make sure it's remorse, not regret, and the former wayward is truly former*.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmn, you expose to POS' wife and today your wife has a "breakdown." Most men don't leave their faithful wife for a cheating wife with another man's kids but the fact that your wife is at least 10 years younger, could've had POS planning a future together. Much younger pvssy has a way to influence a man's thinking. Many MM will talk about running off together but have no plan of following through but the MW, eat that sh!t up.
> 
> Being confronted by his BW may have caused POS to throw cold water on their future plans, hence your wife's emotional breakdown. It may not have been remorse for betraying you and the family but regret that her plans have been dashed.
> 
> You want to make POS life a living hell. Let him really rue the day he decided to pursue your wife and mother of your kids. I advise that you still officially file a complaint to the HR / administration. As for your wife, she has to give you complete transparency. phone, tablet, laptop, email, social media access.
> 
> I normally advise BHs to file D for PAs but since you also did this to her many years ago, there can be a way forward but ONLY if she's truly remorseful. I'm going to advise you get and both read "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair." I say both of you because even though your affair was 8 year ago, their may be some work you have to do as well. I also recommend you get "Married Man Sex Life Primer." This last one is a guide for you on becoming a better man and thus a better husband.
> 
> I advise you to make her get an STD test. One to be sure and two for humiliation. Just another thing for her to know how low she went.
Click to expand...

So many great posts. I appreciate the encouragement. I understand she may not have true remorse yet. 

I want to clarify her breakdown was not due to his wife confronting him. My wife had no idea we spoke until tonight and the betrayed wife has not confronted him yet. She will tomorrow night.

I really dont think my wife has plans with him. I think it is very possible though she did and doesn't know it for herself. Fantasies had to occur. Hes a Dr remember... I know she is confused and doesn't even know her own thoughts right now. She claims she did not love him. I believe she feels this way. I do however feel she did love him to some extent, but can't get herself to admit it.

I know work has to be done on my part. We talked and I stated we both failed our marriage the past 2 years. We failed in the effort to have a good marriage. It really was good before, but we have to have an undeniable effort applied if we decide to R. I want to become a better man. For my family and for my own future. 

I have told her she needs to get tested, and so do I. We dont have sex often and have not had it often for a while. She sluffed it off but I can tell she knew there was some validity to this. She didnt deny it. She stated she used protection. I think this is likely true since she is not on birth control. However, I know this doesn't mean her judgement prevailed.


----------



## Quality

@Evinrude58

You deleted your question but I think it's relevant to the original poster so I'll answer it briefly here.

GENERALLY, wayward husband's maintain a love for their spouse/family, if not just a possessiveness sort of property right to their wife and family such that when they cheat and get busted they very often just end the affair and scramble/beg to recover claiming great overwhelming love or whatever it takes to keep their wife and family intact. The love really isn't a full romantic love but, with concerted effort and the right coach and accountability partners, full love can be restored. However, generally {again} it's difficult to get a wayward husband to give a "concerted effort" to fully reconcile a marriage. He will more often than not do the minimum required to get his wife/family back and simply behave for awhile while the wife struggles to hold it all together {and ends up falling out of respect and then love with her husband}.

On the other hand, wayward wives that have full blown romantic affairs where they stumble into love with their affair partner are often much more difficult to extract from the affair. They love their replacement soulmate and not their husband and usually can't see any way around that. But once the affair is busted up {and the affair partner dumps her to go back to his wife/family or the huge pool of available much less complicated single women} the soon to be former wayward wife, if she has any relationship abilities at all, can usually take a little ownership and become willing to TRY to recover {despite initial protestation that it's not possible}. Women buy relationship books. Women are generally much more willing to make an investment to not only coming home but following a now extremely motivated betrayed husband's lead to learn how to make their marriage better. They will generally more often actually work a recovery plan with a qualified, confident and experienced marriage counselor willing to give direction instead of just talk therapy and, in time, feelings of love will undoubtedly return. This isn't some high school girlfriend dumping her boyfriend never to love him again. You are her God provisioned husband ~~ love may take some time and require patience but she has to respect you first and that is accomplished best by NOT yelling, screaming, begging, pleading nor playing manipulative games like "throwing her to the curb", "acting like you just don't care and are happy for her" or "filing for divorce to wake her up" but instead fighting for her, letting her know she is cherished {and won't be shared but is worth fighting for and you believe she is ultimately redeemable ~ that you have faith in her despite her despicableness and you will honor YOUR vows to God to love, honor and cherish her for the immediate time being but not indefinitely}, being direct and honest, and lovingly exposing her if she won't stop the affair herself {which generally won't happen 100% often}. 

There was a time when before your wife met you that she didn't love you and she, thereafter, proceeded to fall in love with you. It happened once, it's very likely to happen again because God put you two together for many reasons the main one being because you are perfect for each other. If you go into recovery with a defeatist attitude like it's impossible, then maybe it is but I've seen too many couples {men and women cheaters and betrayeds} change and fall back in love with their spouse to ever even call the possibility remote.

In my estimation, recovery doesn't work well or last forever unless and until the marriage actually gets better. It's the best way to overcome the betrayed spouse's resentment of enduring the affair in the first place.


The poster here might have prior experience with infidelity having been a cheater himself but would be well advised to recognize the differences and not have unreasonable or unlikely expectations that his wife will initially beg and plead for his forgiveness {she may be slightly regretful} and return to adoring him anytime soon as he likely did 8 years ago. Betrayed husband's also have a strong hormonal and/or neural instinct to secure their primary mating partner in a much different way than a hurt devastated and disgusted betrayed wife that doesn't want her cheater husband to touch her though she definitely wants him home. Many betrayed husband's find their wives suddenly to be the most stunning woman in the world and can't stop thinking about them sexually and romantically while ALSO being disgusted, hurt, mad and devastated. Controlling these emotions is helpful towards success but minor setbacks of begging, pleading, chasing, yelling, anger, etc are common and understandable considering the circumstances. Just can't beg, plead, chase, yell or punish a wayward while also hoping and expecting them also to eventually love and adore you again. It's a difficult quandary {so bring her here and let the posters at TAM beat her up instead ~ :smile2:}


----------



## farsidejunky

Assuming she is being honest about protection, it is not fail safe as I am sure you know. 

Get the test done anyway, and insist on it for her.


----------



## Satya

Walleye said:


> A true man will do what is best for others before himself.


I'm not a man, so my input isn't as valid as a TAM gentleman, but I politely disagree with this. A man will take care of himself first so that he can BE the oak for the ones he loves. 



Walleye said:


> My goal has always been to have her come back.


Maybe it's because of how you phrased it, but you can't wish or will or goal her back. Whether she comes back is entirely her decision.



Walleye said:


> I still have hope. I may just make this a marriage to be envious of. You can tell me I'm a fool. You can tell me to be careful. Tell me NO this a mistake! I will listen and consider all thoughts. I know many here really want to help.


I'm not going to call you a fool. Sometimes we make foolish choices because we feel so strongly about something or someone. Many people here have made foolish choices, and deliver advice in a harsher way because they are a little upset at themselves still. They see a person possibly reliving those choices and about to face some perceived consequences. 

We can not always predict the outcomes, but keeping an open mind is I think, all that most experienced posters here would ask.


----------



## jsmart

Walleye said:


> So many great posts. I appreciate the encouragement. I understand she may not have true remorse yet.
> 
> I want to clarify her breakdown was not due to his wife confronting him. My wife had no idea we spoke until tonight and the *betrayed wife has not confronted him yet. She will tomorrow night.*
> 
> I really dont think my wife has plans with him. I think it is very possible though she did and doesn't know it for herself. Fantasies had to occur. Hes a Dr remember... I know she is confused and doesn't even know her own thoughts right now. She claims she did not love him. I believe she feels this way. I do however feel she did love him to some extent, but can't get herself to admit it.
> 
> I know work has to be done on my part. We talked and I stated we both failed our marriage the past 2 years. We failed in the effort to have a good marriage. It really was good before, but we have to have an undeniable effort applied if we decide to R. I want to become a better man. For my family and for my own future.
> 
> I have told her she needs to get tested, and so do I. We dont have sex often and have not had it often for a while. She sluffed it off but I can tell she knew there was some validity to this. She didnt deny it. *She stated she used protection*. I think this is likely true since she is not on birth control. However, I know this doesn't mean her judgement prevailed.


It sounds like quite a bit of progress was made. I'm very happy that she appears to be coming out of the fog but you must remain vigilant. You should follow up with the betrayed wife. Make sure that your wife didn't give POS a heads up. VERY common for WWs to protect their OM. 

Also it's good to compare notes so you both can protect your marriages. The amount of affair partners that try to reconnect once the smoke clears is very high. They'll both miss what the other gave. He gave your wife emotional comfort while she gave him sexual pleasure. 

Speaking of sex, they all say that protection was used but after the 1st few times that goes out the window. And going by the fact that you said your sex life dried up for the past few months, they must have been getting busy often. The illicit nature of a sexual affair makes the whole thing intoxicating to the affair partners. Worries of getting pregnant go out the window and may even unspoken and or subconsciously heighten the excitement further.


----------



## convert

Walleye,
I am glad you exposed.
Exposure is the best tool a BS has if the goal is to try and save the marriage and to avoid a false R.

Exposure in this case was not done to be vindictive but to help stop the affair or help maintain no contact and gain you some support.

in most cases exposure (when sticking to the facts) is the only legal tool a BS has besides filing for D.
After all, a BS can't go around beating the OM or OW up, that is really frowned on these days:frown2:


----------



## TDSC60

Have you asked her why she had the affair. What was she thinking about? Why she felt the need to blow up your family?
Remorse is fine, but you have to explore the reasons and feelings that allowed the affair in the first place or it could happen again.


----------



## LucasJackson

Walleye said:


> So many great posts. I appreciate the encouragement. I understand she may not have true remorse yet.
> 
> I want to clarify her breakdown was not due to his wife confronting him. My wife had no idea we spoke until tonight and the betrayed wife has not confronted him yet. She will tomorrow night.
> 
> I really dont think my wife has plans with him. I think it is very possible though she did and doesn't know it for herself. Fantasies had to occur. Hes a Dr remember... I know she is confused and doesn't even know her own thoughts right now. She claims she did not love him. I believe she feels this way. I do however feel she did love him to some extent, but can't get herself to admit it.
> 
> I know work has to be done on my part. We talked and I stated we both failed our marriage the past 2 years. We failed in the effort to have a good marriage. It really was good before, but we have to have an undeniable effort applied if we decide to R. I want to become a better man. For my family and for my own future.
> 
> I have told her she needs to get tested, and so do I. We dont have sex often and have not had it often for a while. She sluffed it off but I can tell she knew there was some validity to this. She didnt deny it. She stated she used protection. I think this is likely true since she is not on birth control. However, I know this doesn't mean her judgement prevailed.


Call me sexist if anyone wants to but I know this. Women don't cheat without love. Even if later they realize that the love wasn't real, the fact is at the time of cheating it was. That's the ultimate betrayal. I'm facing some of that myself. My WW and I are going to MC and trying to work it out but she keeps insisting that there was no love, it was just experimentation and excitement of doing something bad. I know women. That's not how they're wired. I keep calling bullsh*t and she keeps saying it's not. I firmly believe my wife loved her main AP and your wife loves, or loved, hers. Women are too susceptible to love bank deposits. Make enough of them and they're yours. They use phrases like "he won me over" to describe it. It just means he made enough love bank deposits and she went gaga. At that point they drop their pants and present. Literally that's it. That's what they're wired to do to show their acceptance of the love bank deposits and that the required level (different for all women) has been reached. EVERY AP starts by flattering the cheater. Making them feel great about themselves. It's a script and I hate it. It disgusts me that human beings have not evolved past such animalistic and STUPID behavior.

I also know this. Be firm on your wife if you still want her. Women also want their men to be the man of the house. The programmed feminism in them will say otherwise but they can't fight instinct. If you're not king of your castle then Dr. Douche bag will be. Lead your wife. She wants to be led. You took your eye off the ball and this douche bag started leading her. Blow up this fantasy and destroy him. He's an enemy of your marriage and should always be viewed that way. Always.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

jsmart said:


> I advise you to make her get an STD test. One to be sure and two for humiliation. Just another thing for her to know how low she went.


I agree with the humiliation angle. I would also suggest a paternity test on all children. And I agree with the other poster that suggested "we used protection" might have been a lie. Cheaters do not often use protection.


----------



## *Deidre*

LucasJackson said:


> Call me sexist if anyone wants to but I know this. Women don't cheat without love. Even if later they realize that the love wasn't real, the fact is at the time of cheating it was. That's the ultimate betrayal. I'm facing some of that myself. My WW and I are going to MC and trying to work it out but she keeps insisting that there was no love, it was just experimentation and excitement of doing something bad. I know women. That's not how they're wired. I keep calling bullsh*t and she keeps saying it's not. I firmly believe my wife loved her main AP and your wife loves, or loved, hers. Women are too susceptible to love bank deposits. Make enough of them and they're yours. They use phrases like "he won me over" to describe it. It just means he made enough love bank deposits and she went gaga. At that point they drop their pants and present. Literally that's it. That's what they're wired to do to show their acceptance of the love bank deposits and that the required level (different for all women) has been reached. EVERY AP starts by flattering the cheater. Making them feel great about themselves. It's a script and I hate it. It disgusts me that human beings have not evolved past such animalistic and STUPID behavior.
> 
> I also know this. Be firm on your wife if you still want her. Women also want their men to be the man of the house. The programmed feminism in them will say otherwise but they can't fight instinct. If you're not king of your castle then Dr. Douche bag will be. Lead your wife. She wants to be led. You took your eye off the ball and this douche bag started leading her. Blow up this fantasy and destroy him. He's an enemy of your marriage and should always be viewed that way. Always.


This x 100

This is why my engagement blew up me thinks, and why I'm really into my bf and this relationship. He is a true leader, but not in a demeaning or bullying way. And he makes those love deposits. 0

There's still no excuse to cheat though, even if a woman's love account is in the negative, she should speak up and not become deceptive.


----------



## LucasJackson

*Deidre* said:


> This x 100
> 
> This is why my engagement blew up me thinks, and why I'm really into my bf and this relationship. He is a true leader, but not in a demeaning or bullying way. And he makes those love deposits. 0
> 
> There's still no excuse to cheat though, even if a woman's love account is in the negative, she should speak up and not become deceptive.


A good leader is never cruel, demeaning, or bullying. They make you feel great because you have full trust that they always have everything under control. My wife argues with me but I KNOW that one of the reasons our thing happened was because I was becoming too much of a "new millennium" guy. I wasn't being king of my castle. I'll never make that mistake again as long as I live. Every castle can have only 1 king and queen. Queen of my castle is one hell of a good gig. She's trying to earn that spot back now, which I do appreciate but am still not convinced it can be done. Arthur forgave Guinevere but didn't take her back.


----------



## *Deidre*

LucasJackson said:


> A good leader is never cruel, demeaning, or bullying. They make you feel great because you have full trust that they always have everything under control. My wife argues with me but I KNOW that one of the reasons our thing happened was because I was becoming too much of a "new millennium" guy. I wasn't being king of my castle. I'll never make that mistake again as long as I live. Every castle can have only 1 king and queen. Queen of my castle is one hell of a good gig. She's trying to earn that spot back now, which I do appreciate but am still not convinced it can be done. Arthur forgave Guinevere but didn't take her back.


Lol True points.

My deepest respect to those who reconcile, everyone handles these things differently, but 90% of me says, I wouldn’t do it. My thinking is, I just wouldn’t be able to trust the person again, despite their possible remorse. I’m not going to turn into a PI in order to pretend that my marriage is good. That’s just me.

I’m also not interested in someone ‘staying’ with me or ‘coming back to me’ because they think divorce would be too hard on them. Nah, I’d rather be alone before remaining. But, I’ve never been married, so I say this now. Lol

My thought to your situation is that you don’t seem 100% into reconciling, which probably takes time even if someone is. But, be honest with yourself. If you expect your wife to jump through hoops forever to win you back, that’s unrealistic. Eventually, you have to either wipe the slate clean, or let the person go. I don’t think there is any middle ground to successful reconciliation from what I’ve read about here.


----------



## eric1

Walleye said:


> I wanted to give an update. She has shown complete remorse. She has always been terribIe at expressing her feelings, but no excuse for prior behavior or reaction from the admission. I blew up on her just before she started balling and showed remorse.
> 
> Earlier, She had a panic attack when at work I told her we are proceeding with divorce. Told her this is her mistake to own. She thought about the kids but still made a mistake.
> 
> I was able to persuade all the details from her about the affair. I can tell this was honest. She answered the questions I had to know answers to for my own reasons. I don't want to wonder for the rest of my life, with her or without her. It was not good but didn't change the magnitude of what happened. I asked if she wanted to know more about him. I thought it would help her realize how terrible of situation she was in. She did want to know more. I told her all about him, and it was very bad stuff. I hope honestly did it out of care for her well being. I think she knows this as true.
> 
> She had already told him it was over 2 days ago. I do not have proof. However, his wife had acknowledged how depressed he was the past 2 days. This makes it plausible. She did this on her own accord. She is terrible for what she did, but this does not mean she can't do something right too. I know from experience.
> 
> Will I still procedure with divorce? I don't know.* I committed to her to protect her and love her in my vows. I meant it. A true man will do what is best for others before himself. *It's sad how quickly some emphatically state a divorce must be served. I recognize this is a great tactic, and even a fair one. I think it woke her up. However, It's not possible for one to explain in this forum the big picture of a marriage. I have seen a lot of great advice, but I think we have to be more careful. People in this situation are vulnerable and highly likely to make a huge mistakes, on possibly bad information. Likely the OP may have omitted very important details.
> 
> My goal has always been to have her come back. Go through the grieving. Only reconcile if boundaries are in place to make a great marriage. These boundaries will be an ultimatum in my head and will not be refused. I still have hope. I may just make this a marriage to be envious of. You can tell me I'm a fool. You can tell me to be careful. Tell me NO this a mistake! I will listen and consider all thoughts. I know many here really want to help.


With all due respect, your marriage is over. Those vows you took she decided to unilaterally dissolve.

The way to approach this is that, given what you know, is she a good candidate to recommit those vows to? It's an even playing field now. I wish you good luck with your decision.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

eric1 said:


> Those vows you took she decided to unilaterally dissolve.


In fairness, he dissolved them years before she ever did, through his own affair.


----------



## arbitrator

Walleye said:


> You ponder whether I am dominant. To answer your question, I am not the type you referred to. I can not stand the irritating or pissy type. They repulse me. I have an uncanny ability to win debates. I don't lose. It is not hard for me. No fuss like you stated. This must be a frustration for my wife. I understand others' points of view quicker than they do and can always refute them with my logic. This is what I mean.
> 
> I don't know she had sex with him. I do know she had an emotional affair and they kissed. More? maybe I will find out some day.


*In this old fart's elongated lifetime, I think that it's pretty much the exception, much rather than the rule, that a couple snags themselves a secluded hotel room for the commission of their emotional affair much rather than a nice secluded place for them to get themselves a little "horizontal bopping" time in!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

LucasJackson said:


> A good leader is never cruel, demeaning, or bullying. They make you feel great because you have full trust that they always have everything under control. My wife argues with me but I KNOW that one of the reasons our thing happened was because I was becoming too much of a "new millennium" guy. I wasn't being king of my castle. I'll never make that mistake again as long as I live. Every castle can have only 1 king and queen. Queen of my castle is one hell of a good gig. She's trying to earn that spot back now, which I do appreciate but am still not convinced it can be done. Arthur forgave Guinevere but didn't take her back.


"Our thing"...?

LOL... there you go again...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

Tatsuhiko said:


> In fairness, he dissolved them years before she ever did, through his own affair.


Yeah, some guys seem to have trouble understanding this.....some do seem to think that womens affairs are always worse. 

Fortunately I think OP understands it. I'd guess that in the aftermath of his affair and thinking he was "in love", she's always been vulnerable.

Factor in him being kind of a jerk with her father figure dying and you go from bad to worse.

It's not clear to me what they did to get past his affair. Perhaps he can either shed light on this or point to where he's already addressed it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB

Walleye said:


> I have told her she needs to get tested, and so do I. We dont have sex often and have not had it often for a while. She sluffed it off but I can tell she knew there was some validity to this. She didnt deny it. She stated she used protection. I think this is likely true since she is not on birth control. However, I know this doesn't mean her judgement prevailed.


W,

This whole Hotel meeting and Protection claim is straight out of the Cheaters Handbook, Ch 1, Page 1. It's all about minimizing and deflecting the truth.

When my WW had an affair with an old college BF a few years ago, they chatted for a few weeks on FB and email. After getting the fire lit, he suggested they meet up and "talk"... a Hotel room in a near by town. 

When I caught her a few weeks later, I asked her didn't you know going to a hotel room to meet OM meant sex was on the agenda? Her words... "I really didn't think about it, I guess it was a possibility". She also swore that protection was used every time. 

Truth... she wanted sex with OM as much as him and never gave any thought about birth control or protection. 

Don't believe a word coming from your WW mouth.


----------



## Hicks

Did she agree to write a no contact letter (that would be the proof you are seeking that she is telling him it's over)?
Did she give you full access to her phone and passwords?
If she is remorseful, and wants her marriage back, the way you get to prove this beyond listening to words is to see whether she enthusasically does things to prove to you that she wants to be away from him and with you.


----------



## Yeswecan

Walleye said:


> I have told her she needs to get tested, and so do I. We dont have sex often and have not had it often for a while. She sluffed it off but I can tell she knew there was some validity to this. She didnt deny it. *She stated she used protection.* I think this is likely true since she is not on birth control. However, I know this doesn't mean her judgement prevailed.


Don't believe it. From what I know and experienced, there are times/activities when everything is simply thrown out the window.


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## manfromlamancha

So she admitted to having sex with him? Do you have all the details ? How many times ? Where ? What was done ? etc.


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## Hope1964

It is impossible to judge whether there's any remorse after three days. IMPOSSIBLE.

She's going to tell you everything you want to hear and then wait till you're complacent again and then just continue on her merry cheating way.

Realize: The state of your marriage was and is BOTH of your responsibilities, but her choice to cheat is 100% on HER and HER alone. What you had is GONE. Forever. You cannot judge whether she's worthy of R for at least 6 months. And R is NOT the same as staying married. Not the same at all.


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## Walleye

This is a tough spot. She has admitted the details, how many times, and where they had sex. I feel she has been honest. She has been forth coming with all of my questions. His wife will be confronting him tonight. We can compare details. The hardest part for me is knowing what she is going through. I understand it so well and her affair is no different then mine was. Why should she have taken me back and I should not at least consider it? I am all for marriage. I think too many end it without effort. I also understand some must end for both of their sake. I think what we need is more time. I don't think either of us can think clearly right now. All of this emotion and no sleep is killing me.


----------



## Walleye

manfromlamancha said:


> So she admitted to having sex with him? Do you have all the details ? How many times ? Where ? What was done ? etc.


What was done? I don't even know this question is something one should ask. I would be curious to know why this is important. All other questions were answered though.


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## jld

Walleye said:


> This is a tough spot. She has admitted the details, how many times, and where they had sex. I feel she has been honest. She has been forth coming with all of my questions. His wife will be confronting him tonight. We can compare details. The hardest part for me is knowing what she is going through. I understand it so well and her affair is no different then mine was. Why should she have taken me back and I should not at least consider it? I am all for marriage. I think too many end it without effort. I also understand some must end for both of their sake. I think what we need is more time. I don't think either of us can think clearly right now. All of this emotion and no sleep is killing me.


Try to relax. Get some exercise, make sure to eat. Talk to people who can soothe you. Just doing anything you can to lower your stress level right now should give you a better shot at getting some needed sleep.

Have you made an appointment with a marriage counselor yet? That could be really helpful with figuring out your next steps.


----------



## jsmart

Walleye said:


> This is a tough spot. She has admitted the details, how many times, and where they had sex. I feel she has been honest. She has been forth coming with all of my questions. His wife will be confronting him tonight. We can compare details. The hardest part for me is knowing what she is going through. I understand it so well and her affair is no different then mine was. Why should she have taken me back and I should not at least consider it? I am all for marriage. I think too many end it without effort. I also understand some must end for both of their sake. I think what we need is more time. I don't think either of us can think clearly right now. All of this emotion and no sleep is killing me.


I hope that her turn around is because she now sees hope and not a latch onto plan B. She seemed pretty adamant that she wanted out but that could have been because she saw no way that you could forgive what she's done.

Being that you did a similar thing to her 8 years ago, I understand your willingness to try to save the marriage, especially with 4 kids involved. Right now you're probably relieved that she's coming around, I must caution you that you will reach a rage stage. That why some would advise counseling. She needs to help you heal and not expect you to sweep this under the rug. 

You also must work on re-attracting her. Something was lost and if you don't work to regain it, you may be back in a year. So once again, I strongly advise you to get Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life. It a guide for you that she shouldn't see.


----------



## LucasJackson

Walleye said:


> What was done? I don't even know this question is something one should ask. I would be curious to know why this is important. All other questions were answered though.


You don't see it now because it's too soon but if you leave these questions unanswered it will fester inside you for the rest of your life. It will torture you.


----------



## JohnA

Your adultery was not the same as her's the difference is how you handled yourself after DDay (if you haven't rewritten it to some degree). She wants back after you exposed and told her you where filing. You wanted back before exposure and her wanting to file. She gave you TT, you gave her remorse. You ended it and she kept going. 

The other difference is she comminted adultery knowing both intellectury and emtionally what it would do to you. Do you see how important that difference is? 

This was an exit affair that blew uo, scared her and now she wants to run home to daddy, NOT HER HUSBAND. One more point but let me reread your posts.


----------



## Walleye

LucasJackson said:


> Walleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was done? I don't even know this question is something one should ask. I would be curious to know why this is important. All other questions were answered though.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't see it now because it's too soon but if you leave these questions unanswered it will fester inside you for the rest of your life. It will torture you.
Click to expand...

I realize this, oh man I do. The quicker I know everything the faster I can move on in whatever direction we go. I thought the same thing and it's what pressed me to ask these questions. I kept getting the response of "You didn't tell me!" I told her a lot about mine 8 years ago, but I honestly get her point. She has told me more details than I did her. My one question left was what positions, or other things did you do...


----------



## SunCMars

Walleye said:


> I know I did not react normally. It is messed up and nothing like me. To be fair,* I had an affair many years ago*. While I was with my wife, maybe 2 years into our marriage. I was in a fog. I know how it happens. I know it's like a drug. An addiction. Something you need, but you find out the terrible consequences. I woke up and fought for her back. I have done what I could to purge this from my memory. It was the worst pain in my life until this. This was before we had children.


You broke down the barn door with *that affair*. You thought she had forgotten. Not a chance. A women scorned sub-consciously rubs her scars.... unseen by others.

She stepped through the splintered wood of that formerly hinged door when she saw a "Horse of Another Color" off on the horizon.

The best you can hope for is that OM will not keep the body that houses her heart.

Be the best man you can be.

Do the 180.....on the head of a pin. Your wiggle room is that sparse.

Sorry.


----------



## SunCMars

*Deidre* said:


> Why I don't think people should reveal things to people they don't know is suppose the OM in this case beats her or worse...kills her? You don't know. People do crazy things these days, we see it in the news all the time. I wouldn't expose anyone. I would just immediately separate, and figure out life from there. I ''understand'' the exposure idea, but I couldn't live with myself if I were to expose the affair to someone who would snap and hurt the person. That's just me.


That would be horrible...yes it would.

Also horrible is Truth and *No Consequences*, New Mexico. 

His Turnip cart would continue to roll down the Lois Lanes and Lizzie Roads. Squashing lonely Mama's.....leaving kids without their Daddies hugging them.

Why? OM's loins will run rampant without manly intervention. 

My blood boils.


----------



## *Deidre*

SunCMars said:


> That would be horrible...yes it would.
> 
> Also horrible is Truth and *No Consequences*, New Mexico.
> 
> His Turnip cart would continue to roll down the Lois Lanes and Lizzie Roads. Squashing lonely Mama's.....leaving kids without their Daddies hugging them.
> 
> Why? OM's loins will run rampant without manly intervention.
> 
> My blood boils.




I see clearer the reasons for ''exposing''. Think that people eventually reap what they sow, though. Sooner or later.


----------



## JohnA

As a general rule A woman will share intimacy when she feels emtionally connected. She will also allow a new partner to push her normal boundaries to express how deeply she feels the connection. Hence, the need for the BH to know details to in a sense to compare how deep her commitment to the OM vs the BH. Did she ask you for these types of details? 

You seem thoughtful so I ask you to clarity two points. 

First you never answered @notmyrealname4 about the timing of your adultery vs the miscarriages. Please due so. 

Second, where is her dad? Why is her mother single? How many of the fathers behavioral traits do you have?


----------



## SunCMars

Hope1964 said:


> It is impossible to judge whether there's any remorse after three days. IMPOSSIBLE.
> 
> She's going to tell you everything you want to hear and then wait till you're complacent again and then just continue on her merry cheating way.
> 
> Realize: The state of your marriage was and is BOTH of your responsibilities, but her choice to cheat is 100% on HER and HER alone. What you had is GONE. Forever. You cannot judge whether she's worthy of R for at least 6 months. And R is NOT the same as staying married. Not the same at all.


Thank You!

End of Response................


----------



## JohnA

Additional question: she wants the kids to stay in the house BUT with who? Te worst thing a BS can do is leave the family home. Read this Men, do not leave your home! - Marriage Builders® Forums. 

There is no reason not for you to stay in the home. Childcare, yea she has a 40 hour a week job but she has mom for backup. Perhaps there is a family member or another person that can do the same. If you leave the home your worst regret will not be your adultery but leaving the house. 

By the way she ran and went dark on you, you stayed and offered reconciliation. Do you see the difference?


----------



## VladDracul

Walleye said:


> I understand it so well and her affair is no different then mine was.


Looks to me like ya'll are on a level playing field with equal scores. Where you go with it now is up to ya'll. As far as what she did with the other man, its probably similar to what you did with the other woman. In regard to comments that what she did is somehow worse than what you did, wasn't it you that claimed you thought thought you were in love with the other woman. As far as affair sex being hotter than marital sex after a number of years, maybe so. But it typical burns out quickly when the new wears off. My question for both of you is why were you seeking something outside your marriage. (probably a little more important to salvaging a marriage than knowing the positions and acts you/her can get from any hooker or male escort.)


----------



## Hope1964

Why do you think that if you see a lawyer or kick her out of the house that's the end?? My husband and I are together today and quite happy. Despite the fact - or, more likely, BECAUSE of the fact - that I kicked his a$$ out the very day I found out he was cheating.

And why do you keep thinking that what you did 8 years ago has any bearing on this today???? Others have already covered all the reasons it shouldn't - are you even reading any of that?


----------



## Evinrude58

Still waiting for the fallout of exposing to OMW.
I'd like to hear what she has to say. More I think about this case, the less remorseful I think op's wife is. I do think another poster was right that this was an exit affair gone wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walleye

Evinrude58 said:


> Still waiting for the fallout of exposing to OMW.
> I'd like to hear what she has to say. More I think about this case, the less remorseful I think op's wife is. I do think another poster was right that this was an exit affair gone wrong.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The OMS has confronted him a couple days ago. She and I have been speaking and get along very well. It's very nice to have someone in my shoes. I can't remember if I shared this, but she told me everything about him. It has happened multiple times, etc. It is nice to have her to compare stories. So far they match up. My wife and I have spoke more this week than we have ever I think. It started out pretty dreadful with all my questions, but she told me everything I asked. She admitted she cares for him and misses him. I know she will go through withdrawal. She agreed to try to work on us. I don't see much enthusiasm from her, however. I do feel so much better just to hear some honesty for once. 

It has been eating her up the things I told him. It makes her feel cheated. Duh! She finally broke down and messaged him 3 days after no contact. Wanting to ask him the questions she has so she can move forward. She told me right away that afternoon, was sorry, and said he is available to meet her to discuss if she would like. He said his wife is okay as long as she knows everything as they have been talking every night about his issues.

I spoke to his wife to confirm. She knows he would like to have this shameful conversation in person. Neither of us like it, she knows he will cry and she may want to console him. OMW suggested phone with both of us in the room with our spouse. But I said she can still hear the emotion and that won't be good. I suggested email. Anyway, my wife says she wants to hear it in person. I want her to hear from him that she was one of several. His wife also says he will be honest and tell her probably everything. That he wants no bearing on her decision and he would encourage her to figure out what she should do with me and not think about him. She qas sure of this. He never promised her a future. His wife is very sorry we got caught in this and I beleive she really wants to help us, her. I think this is an absolutely terrible idea for us to give the okay to meet. But I want her to hear the truth on the other hand. I think we could stipulate the conditions of the meeting, but I still hate it. Thoughts please...


----------



## farsidejunky

No. No, no, no.

It is a terrible idea. Your instinct is right.


----------



## Walleye

What about a phone call? I mean, is there any benefit in her hearing this? Will it wake her up?


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## jsmart

A final meeting for closure is bullsh!t. There is no closure for what they did. You just go no contact. Why would she be hurt about him having others if she was not thinking of running off with him. I'm telling you, these 2 were plotting something. He probably wasn't going to pull the trigger, especially with her being a mother of 4 kids but your WW ate it up like, the majority of them do. Of course if your kids were not in the picture, he might have jumped the chance at trading up to a much younger wife.

The only thing that they plan on discussing is logistics on taking this further underground or how they'll wait for each other. Let's just lay low. He may even tell her to give me more time. I'm sure you wife will make her case to get him to leave his wife for her. So many negatives. DON'T allow this meeting.


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## jsmart

Walleye said:


> What about a phone call? I mean, is there any benefit in her hearing this? Will it wake her up?


No this will not wake her up. Just hearing his voice will trigger her to desire him. You think a woman who was planning to break up her family to get with a cheating husband will be deterred by learning he's had other OW? 

Read the threads from WWs on the OW section of Loveshack. One vile married mother after another pining away for their MM sometimes for years. They use any excuse to break NC so the can run off to service him in the hopes of getting him to leave his marriage for her. All this after having a D day that devastated their BH. 

That's your WW's mentality. These women are 100 % consumed by a desire for their MM. Some of these women, like your wife, have small children. So sad how neglectful they are.


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## PhillyGuy13

Sorry, not sure why they need to meet. Or speak. 

As far as this realizing this guy's true character, your wife needs to take your word, and the word of the wife of the man she bedded. She doesn't need to hear anything from him.

No contact. 

Anything else is just theatre.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58

Coming up with far out excuses to see the guy "in person"?????!!!!
Might as well file. Sorry
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TaDor

NO NO NO and NO!

She sees him (and private no less) and she'll wet her panties.
#1 - my wife and I went to pick up her things from a room mate of her affair partner. The OM ended up showing up, and things went to crap really quick... blood was spilled.
#2 - when I caught her breaking contact again... she lied about having a meeting with OM to figure out what she wants... I said "sure go", knowing it was a screw over... while they plotted and tried to come with something.

Affairs rarely end suddenly. He's can tell her "those other women meant nothing. You're special. we'll meet in the future".

Want to save your marriage (whatever it is, now)... At least 3 things:
1 - consider expose them both of them... or just expose your wife and threaten to expose the OM publicly.
2 - marriage counseling.
3 - buy 2 copies of NOT JUST FRIENDS. (Link below) one for each of you.
https://www.amazon.com/Not-Just-Fri...d=1473591215&sr=1-1&keywords=not+just+friends

May consider buying the other books (single copies) of the other recommended books. 
How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by Linda J. MacDonald (its a 2-3 hour read. Have wife read it before Not Just friends as its 400 pages)
Reason I recommend the shorter book to start... it gets some seeds in there to help explain fog and put some cracks in it.

There is NOTHING they need to say in PERSON - PERIOD. EVER! No "good bye letter" crap either.

No contact, no form. Ever.


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## jld

Walleye said:


> The OMS has confronted him a couple days ago. She and I have been speaking and get along very well. It's very nice to have someone in my shoes. I can't remember if I shared this, but she told me everything about him. It has happened multiple times, etc. It is nice to have her to compare stories. So far they match up. My wife and I have spoke more this week than we have ever I think. It started out pretty dreadful with all my questions, but she told me everything I asked. She admitted she cares for him and misses him. I know she will go through withdrawal. She agreed to try to work on us. I don't see much enthusiasm from her, however. I do feel so much better just to hear some honesty for once.
> 
> It has been eating her up the things I told him. It makes her feel cheated. Duh! She finally broke down and messaged him 3 days after no contact. Wanting to ask him the questions she has so she can move forward. She told me right away that afternoon, was sorry, and said he is available to meet her to discuss if she would like. He said his wife is okay as long as she knows everything as they have been talking every night about his issues.
> 
> I spoke to his wife to confirm. She knows he would like to have this shameful conversation in person. Neither of us like it, she knows he will cry and she may want to console him. OMW suggested phone with both of us in the room with our spouse. But I said she can still hear the emotion and that won't be good. I suggested email. Anyway, my wife says she wants to hear it in person. I want her to hear from him that she was one of several. His wife also says he will be honest and tell her probably everything. That he wants no bearing on her decision and he would encourage her to figure out what she should do with me and not think about him. She qas sure of this. He never promised her a future. His wife is very sorry we got caught in this and I beleive she really wants to help us, her. I think this is an absolutely terrible idea for us to give the okay to meet. But I want her to hear the truth on the other hand. I think we could stipulate the conditions of the meeting, but I still hate it. Thoughts please...


Wow, the wife sounds very mature. I wonder why she stays with that guy.

Please tell your wife that the sooner she goes No Contact, the easier and quicker her healing will be.

It's great that you and your wife are talking openly and honestly, btw. And you are very understanding of her withdrawal, undoubtedly because you went through it yourself. You likely know only too well how it feels.

Have you looked hard at what you two can start doing to heal your relationship? And have you considered professional marriage counseling?


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## JohnA

Your wife and OM are both drama junkies who think the world revolves around them. You and OMW are acting in the role of induging parents with moonstruck teens. You need to demand she grow up or out. 

Please clarify: when you where a WS your wife moved out for several months. During that time did you go N/C and focus on the marriage? What exactly occurred? It seems like she did the things we are telling you to do, and itnsaved the marriage. 

Take all the pain you feel now, that pain she remembers from your adultery. Yet knowing she would cause and is causing you that pain she is doing anyway. So you tell me if the adultery in both cases the same? Her's is the worst, a informed person who understood every step of the way the emotional pain and devastation she inflicted on you. 

Ask her to move out, cite what I just wrote. And expose to your family, her family, and your children both your past and her present. Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums

There are two people in a marriage, both equal. You have forgotten the husband, you, in this thread an left him out die.


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## eric1

Is a closure a reason to break no contacts?

No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No NO NO NO NEGATORY No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No OH PLEASE NO No no NO no Negatory no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No negative no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative nada No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no NEGATIVE no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No PLEASE NO no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative OPPOSITE-OF-YES No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NOMEANSNO NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO #badidea no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative no no no no no No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO no no no no no no NO NO no No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no


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## eric1

In case I wasn't clear: No


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## PhillyGuy13

eric1 said:


> In case I wasn't clear: No


So... You don't think he should?

(I was going to quote your other post but didn't want to risk a permanent ban 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jld

JohnA said:


> Your wife and OM are both drama junkies who think the world revolves around them. You and OMW are acting in the role of induging parents with moonstruck teens. You need to demand she grow up or out.
> 
> Please clarify: when you where a WS your wife moved out for several months. During that time did you go N/C and focus on the marriage? What exactly occurred? It seems like she did the things we are telling you to do, and itnsaved the marriage.
> 
> *Take all the pain you feel now, that pain she remembers from your adultery. Yet knowing she would cause and is causing you that pain she is doing anyway. So you tell me if the adultery in both cases the same? Her's is the worst, a informed person who understood every step of the way the emotional pain and devastation she inflicted on you. *
> 
> Ask her to move out, cite what I just wrote. And expose to your family, her family, and your children both your past and her present. Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums
> 
> There are two people in a marriage, both equal. You have forgotten the husband, you, in this thread an left him out die.


I'll have to remember the bolded the next time I read here about a WW whose husband later has an affair and is told that she cannot complain because he is just doing what she did.

Walleye, did your wife expose you to family and friends? Do you feel the need to do this?


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## TX-SC

No meeting, no closure. She needs to go no contact and keep no contact. End of story.


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## Evinrude58

OP,
Think about this: after learning the guy is a serial cheater, and her already knowing how it feels to be cheated on, she still WANTS to see him. 
I say let her go. Ask her to leave the home. She wants the other man, STILL. Until she hates the thought of this other man, you have no chance at your wife loving you again. Perhaps if she lost her family, she'd be broken out of this frame of mind she's in now and hate the guy for it. I think that's your only chance. 

I figure you'll try to nice her back.... It's what I'd probably do...
I'm divorced, btw. I tried to nice mine back for a couple of months before I found out she was cheating. 

It won't work for you, either. Tell her she can have the other man and to GO GET HIM. It's your only chance.
Jmo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA

@jld didn't you know this before??? It would take a very shallow person not to realize this after they have been a BS. Was your post a dig based in gender basis?


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## jld

JohnA said:


> @jld didn't you know this before??? It would take a very shallow person not to realize this after they have been a BS. Was your post a dig based in gender basis?


Far directed us earlier in the thread to post only to Walleye. I will keep to that.


----------



## just got it 55

Walleye said:


> Can you clarify your meaning on the wrong approach? Her response was this
> 
> *"Sorry you can't trust me and believe me. I know I need to work on me, alone. We do need to talk about how we want to do this with the kids. I think keeping the house, to keep some sort of normalcy in their life would be helpful*."


This means absolutely nothing.

55


----------



## MJJEAN

farsidejunky said:


> Assuming she is being honest about protection, it is not fail safe as I am sure you know.
> 
> Get the test done anyway, and insist on it for her.


There are a few STI's that are permanent and that condoms DO NOT protect against as the diseases are spread via skin to skin contact where the condom doesn't cover. One of those diseases can cause cervical cancer. Please, insist both of you get tested.



LucasJackson said:


> Call me sexist if anyone wants to but I know this. Women don't cheat without love. Even if later they realize that the love wasn't real, the fact is at the time of cheating it was. That's the ultimate betrayal. I'm facing some of that myself. My WW and I are going to MC and trying to work it out but she keeps insisting that there was no love, it was just experimentation and excitement of doing something bad. I know women. That's not how they're wired. I keep calling bullsh*t and she keeps saying it's not.


I am female. I was married to my exH for nearly 7 years before we separated. During that time I had multiple affairs with men I am quite certain I didn't love. Not all women are wired the same way. Some of us naturally separate love from sex. Some of us are capable of enjoying a man's company and having intense sex with him without mistaking a general liking and physical chemistry for love.

Not to mention, for some women, it's easy to have porn star sex with an OM they don't love simply because the woman doesn't care what he thinks of her afterward.

If you really want to reconcile, you might try believing your wife. It's well within the realm of possibility that she is being honest about not loving her OM.



Walleye said:


> What about a phone call? I mean, is there any benefit in her hearing this? Will it wake her up?


Maybe. Maybe if she hears from him that she was nothing special, one of many, etc. she will move on more smoothly.


----------



## TaDor

eric1 said:


> In case I wasn't clear: No


What do you mean by... "no"?


----------



## just got it 55

Walleye said:


> The OMS has confronted him a couple days ago. She and I have been speaking and get along very well. It's very nice to have someone in my shoes. I can't remember if I shared this, but she told me everything about him. It has happened multiple times, etc. It is nice to have her to compare stories. So far they match up. My wife and I have spoke more this week than we have ever I think. It started out pretty dreadful with all my questions, but she told me everything I asked. She admitted she cares for him and misses him. I know she will go through withdrawal. She agreed to try to work on us. I don't see much enthusiasm from her, however. I do feel so much better just to hear some honesty for once.
> 
> It has been eating her up the things I told him. It makes her feel cheated. Duh! She finally broke down and messaged him 3 days after no contact. Wanting to ask him the questions she has so she can move forward. She told me right away that afternoon, was sorry, and said he is available to meet her to discuss if she would like. He said his wife is okay as long as she knows everything as they have been talking every night about his issues.
> 
> I spoke to his wife to confirm. She knows he would like to have this shameful conversation in person. Neither of us like it, she knows he will cry and she may want to console him. OMW suggested phone with both of us in the room with our spouse. But I said she can still hear the emotion and that won't be good. I suggested email. Anyway, my wife says she wants to hear it in person. I want her to hear from him that she was one of several. His wife also says he will be honest and tell her probably everything. That he wants no bearing on her decision and he would encourage her to figure out what she should do with me and not think about him. She qas sure of this. He never promised her a future. His wife is very sorry we got caught in this and I beleive she really wants to help us, her. I think this is an absolutely terrible idea for us to give the okay to meet. But I want her to hear the truth on the other hand. I think we could stipulate the conditions of the meeting, but I still hate it. Thoughts please...


No fvcking way

55


----------



## Rubix Cubed

jld said:


> Far directed us earlier in the thread to post only to Walleye. I will keep to that.


You should heed your own advice.


Walleye, You need to give her the boot and not look back. Go re-read JohnA 's post, over and over, and pretty much do the opposite of what JLD endorses...95% of the time.
Do NOT under any circumstances let your spouse break no contact, unless you want them to be together. She'll swoon as he speaks, no matter what he tells her.


----------



## VladDracul

MJJEAN said:


> I am female. I was married to my exH for nearly 7 years before we separated. During that time I had multiple affairs with men I am quite certain I didn't love. Not all women are wired the same way. Some of us naturally separate love from sex. Some of us are capable of enjoying a man's company and having intense sex with him without mistaking a general liking and physical chemistry for love.


I submit you didn't love (i.e. have a strong romantic interest in) your ex either.


----------



## MJJEAN

VladDracul said:


> I submit you didn't love (i.e. have a strong romantic interest in) your ex either.


No, I did not. He was a causal sex partner, sort of a FWB, when I became pregnant due to a birth control failure and we married to "do the right thing". Which is kind of part of the point to my post to LucasJackson. While we may not be the majority, there are plenty of women capable of a purely sexual relationship without having or forming an emotional attachment to their partner. If his wife says it was just about sex and sexual experimentation, she could very well be telling the truth. If he refuses to believe her because she doesn't fit a stereotype, he could damage their reconciliation.


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## VladDracul

Ya MJ I'm not surprised by your response; which leads to the question he need the answer to is not if she loved the other guy(s), but if she loved him.


----------



## MJJEAN

VladDracul said:


> Ya MJ I'm not surprised by your response; which leads to the question he need the answer to is not if she loved the other guy(s), but if she loved him.


She may very well have loved him during her affair. Compartmentalization. Love and husband in one box. Sex and OM in another.


----------



## Walleye

Today was not a good day, as yesterday we made so much progress. I am at the point of giving up. I made it clear the last 2 days what I have to offer. I told her I am aware of the needs I was not meeting and how I have a plan to meet them forever if we decide to work on us together. I take 50/50 blame for the marriage and she has to own the other 50. She owns 100% of this affair. It's futile without her effort. 

Exposed the affair to his spouse. He has been telling friends his issue to relieve his conscience and several others of all his sex issues. Followed plan A. should I expose to others? I thought about her close friends and relatives and also mine. She has come somewhat clean to a few of her friends, but I want them to know my side too, what she has been like. Not her. I don't want to lie when my peers ask how my day is. Honesty has felt great. I have been so honest before, but radical honesty has a redeeming effect I now very much value. It sets you free!

OMW said he had a new bombshell to drop, and he was going to come clean on everything. She and OM were sure this would send my wife running. We agreed to let them meet against my will today. In a public parking lot. We knew we could not prevent it from happening behind our backs later anyway, so better we knew and could discuss with out spouses what halpened. Drop the A bomb when she didnt expect. And I just wanted it over. Bad call, but I was just done.

My wife is still not truly remorseful, but I expected. A little is there, but pathetic to me. I pleaded and begger forgiveness when I was exposed. I was remorseful and shamed in my younger years, but it has taught me I can never do it again. I know this of me. I matured so much and am quick to move from the past and look at present future.

Since they met, I sense love (or near love and desire) rekindled, as expected. He admitted all of his terrible things, but I just hope its the hope the affair fog is making her delusional. This is not her. I don't know who she is anymore. I did take the kids for a drive after so much waiting and did see they were where they agreed to be. Nothing sexual or hugging would have happend, im sure they had the desire. Public place. It took 5 hours!!! Complete disrespect to us. My emotion was now dead.

We had agreed we are over. After I asked her to tell me all about it.Her actions show me she is not well. Not respecting how I and his wife feel for these agonizing hours of eternity is thoughtless. I do really think with a loss a family member this week and one of her most cherished, her uncle (her only father figure) now looming with little hope this must compound the issue. Her biological father is not around and never has been. He has his own family and never wanted to talk to her despite her trying to reach him. He lives in the same city, what a peice of scum.

Now I am just angry. Her disconnecting from me the past 2 years. Some sex, mostly denied. Never saying anything and letting me beleive all is well. Again, this is not her. The failure to tell me she was unhappy the past 2 years is worse than the affair and inexcusable. Don't waste my years. I wonder if she is rewriting history to write her own false percptions of me to justify her fantasy world...

I also fear exit affair gone bad. I am in the mind to contact an attorney now, move to plan B as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair. I wonder if I should stay in the holding pattern a few weeks and just do the 180 before implementing plan B. I told her I'm not answering questions about me or her moving out right now, not tonight. Said I'm not going to fight and be disrespectful to her. I'm done with emotions and only thinking logically and need to focus on my family. I'm above that I said, but she knew I meant it and was not happy in how firmly I said it. I said I am not moving out of my house. She is willing to go. I said it all sucks. You leaving and staying here both suck.

She has been very nice all of a sudden, but it feels like relief on her part. More Anger from me! Did not let her see this anger though. Just confidence in what I said and she knew it. I already made it clear I would work on us despite her actions, but nice guy is over. I wanted to try counseling, but not hearing much from her on that.Help me process!


----------



## farsidejunky

There is nothing to process. Your WW is not the only one in a fog. You are as well, although it seems to be clearing now. 

Given your unwillingness to listen before, I strongly encourage you to listen now. 

They have taken those five hours to work out exactly what they will say and do from here forward, how they will maintain contact, how they will spin their stories, how they will make you and the OMW to be the bad guys, and how their fairy tale story can continue.

I will revert to my previous advice:

File. Have her served. Tell her the conditions you need for reconciliation and she has until the final court date to prove to you that she is truly remorseful. 

Until then, full 180 (minus details for the kids). She can move out. Show her consequences. Show her you have enough respect for yourself that you will not tolerate an unfaithful wife one more day.

Brother...please. Listen to folks here. I hate to see you divorced...but I hate to see you living with infidelity even less.

Incidentally, what is the bombshell?


----------



## Satya

Counseling won't work when they've spent 5 hours getting an Oxytocin fix by talking. You don't even know what was said, and it doesn't matter, because just being next to each other has the desired effect. 

If you were resigned to them meeting with or without your permission, that basically says that inside you KNOW she's remorseless and can't be working with a mind toward R. When a BS lists the requirements for gaining back trust, they don't say pretty please. It's "this, or gtfo." 

I hope you will move forward with divorce, for your own sake.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

farsidejunky said:


> There is nothing to process. Your WW is not the only one in a fog. You are as well, although it seems to be clearing now.
> 
> Given your unwillingness to listen before, I strongly encourage you to listen now.
> 
> They have taken those five hours to work out exactly what they will say and do from here forward, how they will maintain contact, how they will spin their stories, how they will make you and the OMW to be the bad guys, and how their fairy tale story can continue.
> 
> I will revert to my previous advice:
> 
> File. Have her served. Tell her the conditions you need for reconciliation and she has until the final court date to prove to you that she is truly remorseful.
> 
> Until then, full 180 (minus details for the kids). She can move out. Show her consequences. Show her you have enough respect for yourself that you will not tolerate an unfaithful wife one more day.
> 
> Brother...please. Listen to folks here. I hate to see you divorced...but I hate to see you living with infidelity even less.
> 
> Incidentally, what is the bombshell?


I was against a meeting even when I assumed it would be chaperoned. But 5 hours...alone?? I can only imagine what went on for five hours, where did they go? Best case scenario as Farside said is they spent the time plotting and planning, instead of... Other things.

OP - please follow the rest of FarSide's advice here. It's pretty much all that is left to be said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jsmart

How the hell did you allow this bull$hit meeting to take place? 5 hours? That is outrageous. And your talking about not showing your anger just being confident? You need to get fvcking furious. 

You're deluded if you think you can pull off any kind of confident stance. You're in the car with your 4 kids while you knowingly allow the dude, that's been fvcking your wife for the past 2 years, to spend 5 hours scheming on how they'll take this further underground. 

God [email protected] it. I'm so fvcking angry. Reading this has my blood boiling. You need to get your T levels checks or better yet check for a pulse.


----------



## jsmart

What do all those talking about her not loving this guy think about this. Does a WW that is not hanging on for dear life to her OM have 5 hour meeting with him while her husband is in the car with their 4 kids do something like this if she wasn't in love?

I'll repeat what I said earlier, these 2 were plotting on leaving their marriage and families. More than likely, the MM was just going with the heat of the moment but knew in his heart that he wasn't going to pull the trigger but OPs WW, like the majority of them, ate it up and was banking on it. I wouldn't be surprised if she'd be willing to leave sans the kids just so she can have her prize.

Also those equating their affairs need to look at the details. Notice how OP immediately went NC and was begging for his wife. Then take note of how this WW is so remorseless. And this is with his affair happening before they were parents. I could only imagine how much harder he would have begged and pleaded for forgiveness if they were parents at the time. But his WW is like the majority I see on LS, vile even after the end.


----------



## rzmpf

Ok, this meeting must be one of the worst ideas ever. Why didn't you pay for a room for them to make this farce complete?

Do you know what the alleged a-bomb is and if he even told her? (No supervision...man...5 hours....man....you really had your kids with you???? WTF... i digress).

Seems that the meeting was the final nail in the coffin that is your marriage.


----------



## convert

Which car did they set in at this public park?

...wait it does not matter

since the OM's wife knows there should have been a VAR in each Car.

I did NOT like the idea of the meeting in the first place but if I did let it happen the VARs would have been in place.


----------



## Chaparral

It sure looks like you haven't read any other threads here.
Just like the script cheaters follow, there is a script betrayed spouses have to follow if they want to reconcile.
Not one experienced poster here suggested letting them go on another date.
They made a fool of you yet again.
Good luck with that.
The good news?You will soon be minus one lying cheating wife.


----------



## jld

OP, the meeting is with all four of you present, correct? That is what I understood it to mean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

jld said:


> OP, the meeting is with all four of you present, correct? That is what I understood it to mean.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe you should re-read his description of it. OM and WW met alone for 5 hrs while BH wandered around with the 4 kids.


----------



## becareful2

I can't believe the OP let his wife meet with the OM for FIVE HOURS. Unreal.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Nucking Futs said:


> OM and WW met alone for 5 hrs while BH wandered around with the 4 kids.


He clearly has not read or taken one iota of advice given to him on his thread and offering further help is futile.

It's one thing to be an unwitting cuckold. It's a WHOLE different story to volunteer to actively participate.

Best case scenario is they decide to have farewell sex and spoon each other while OP babysits the kids.

Worst case scenario is they decide to have their usual sex and spoon each other while OP babysits the kids.



Where's your *self respect* OP? What is this crap? Why do you still care about HER feelings? What about you!!!


----------



## Ceegee

Letting a WW meet with her AP is like letting a junkie meet with their drug dealer "one last time".

Look Walleye, you let her meet one more time because, as you said, they were going to do it anyway. 

This is fear.

You are afraid to enforce boundaries because you are afraid to lose her.

You should have said no to the meeting. You should have said, "and if I find out you met him anyway, behind my back, the next thing you're going to see from me are D papers".

You're still just going along for the ride she's taking you on.


----------



## becareful2

I have no doubt that because OP let his wife meet her lover for FIVE HOURS, that she now knows he's afraid to lose her. She will only respect him even less from here on out.


----------



## TDSC60

Words fail me.

I cannot believe you let them meet alone, much less meet alone for 5 hours!

They definitely made a plan to continue the affair or a plan to exit both marriages. 

Stop talking to her about anything except taking care of the kids. Any info you share with her now is like giving the enemy a copy of your battle plan.

That meeting was the final shot to finish off your marriage. It is definitely dead and will not survive. So give it a proper burial.

Do not leave the house. Let her move out.


----------



## Evinrude58

I'm in shock at the "they'll just do it anyway response" from OP, along with sitting in the car for 5 hours. I personally think the OMW and OM have some kind of open marriage. She's far to accepting and such of all this schitt. She should be filing for divorce as well.
It's obvious that this guy is a serial cheater, and the OMW is a serial enabler. Hell, she's now teaching you how to be an enabler, OP.

THere is NOTHING left for you to do but DIVORCE her. She's gonna leave you anyway, whether she gets OM or not. She is out the door, has nothing left for you but repulsion and disrespect. After doing what you did allowing her to make out with the OM for 5 hours, you probably deserve her disrespect. 

I have NO IDEA why you didn 't go back, jerk the guy out of the car, and send him on his way and retrieve your wife. This is one of the worst cases of fearful, indecisive behavior I've seen.

The next thing she sees from you are divorce papers. Your marriage is 100% OVER, and anything you do to try to win her back will be futile. You MUST accept this change in your life. I promise that although the next few months will be hell, you will get over this if you just accept it for what it is and move on. There are millions of desperate women out there that are dying to love you and be faithful. Why would you think you have to accept the s sandwich you're being fed by your wife?

You love her, right? WRONG, you love the person she WAS, or who you THOUGHT she was. THat person doesn't exist now. That's why she seems like a different person. I'm sorry, but you were told not to let this happen. I know you're hurting, but you need to file. You can always remarry, or drop the divorce before it's final. FILE. please/


----------



## badmemory

OP,

I suppose you have every right to ignore the advice you are receiving. But when you allowed them to meet, what did you think was going to happen? 

You should have told her that she could decide between meeting with him or being married to you. Instead, you enabled their affair, demonstrated to her how much you fear divorce, and that you are willing to be her door mat to avoid losing her. What little respect she had for you as a husband, is now diminished to nothing.

I'd tell you to just divorce her and move on with your life, but I'm sure you'll ignore that advice as well.

Good luck, I'm out.


----------



## LosingHim

You let them meet, and then you got mad about it? I mean, I see absolutely no reason for a closure meeting as it is and the fact that she was with him for 5 hours is completely disrespectful…..but OP what were you even thinking? 

You touched a hot stove and now you’re blaming the stove for burning you.


----------



## eric1

eric1 said:


> Is a closure a reason to break no contacts?
> 
> No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO
> 
> (edited for brevity)
> 
> o no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no No No no NO no no no no no No nO No no no no NO *no* No NO _nononononono_ NO no no no NO No NO NONONO Negative No no no no





Walleye said:


> OMW said he had a new bombshell to drop, and he was going to come clean on everything. She and OM were sure this would send my wife running. We agreed to let them meet against my will today. In a public parking lot. We knew we could not prevent it from happening behind our backs later anyway, so better we knew and could discuss with out spouses what halpened. Drop the A bomb when she didnt expect. And I just wanted it over. Bad call, but I was just done.












We can help you with your decision making process but there are some things that you just shouldn't and can't do if you want to get out of this "alive". You need to start taking control of this situation.


----------



## Quality

Walleye said:


> I also fear exit affair gone bad. I am in the mind to contact an attorney now, move to plan B as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair. I wonder if I should stay in the holding pattern a few weeks and just do the 180 before implementing plan B. I told her I'm not answering questions about me or her moving out right now, not tonight. Said I'm not going to fight and be disrespectful to her. I'm done with emotions and only thinking logically and need to focus on my family. I'm above that I said, but she knew I meant it and was not happy in how firmly I said it. I said I am not moving out of my house. She is willing to go. I said it all sucks. You leaving and staying here both suck.
> 
> She has been very nice all of a sudden, but it feels like relief on her part. More Anger from me! Did not let her see this anger though. Just confidence in what I said and she knew it. I already made it clear I would work on us despite her actions, but nice guy is over. I wanted to try counseling, but not hearing much from her on that.Help me process!



You're not the first Betrayed Husband to fall for the closure meeting/contact and you won't be the last.

It was a horrible idea and if I was around I would have reminded you that "no contact" is the number 1 priority over everything else but I also would have told you that they probably would find a way to do it behind your back anyway {it's like a last night bender before going into rehab ~~~ they often can't not do it}. You've now compounded the error quite a bit by actually consenting to the meeting {a little hypocritical to be over the top mad about something you allowed but madhatters like yourself often make mistakes similar to this}. You've now realized you miscalculated by misplacing your hope and trust in a, as of yet, unrepentant cheater. You HOPED she'd be like you and just end it, like she seemed to promise and assure you. It made sense because you ended your affair abruptly. However, a few pages back in this thread I set out how wayward wives are different and you need to be aware she is not likely at all to behave as you did 8 years ago.

Where to go from here ~~ 

You can't fix what happened and you really are in the same position you were in last week ~ fighting for your marriage by trying to bust up the affair and establish real "no contact". Whether you consented to that meeting or not changes nothing because, as you pretty much surmised, they were going to talk anyway and try to get 'closure'. 

What all too often happens in these 'closure' meetings and what I'm reading here in this situation is the OM very much insured your wife that she's not like all the other people he's cheated with, his feelings for her are unlike anything he's experienced before, that they are soulmates that God has brought together for a reason and that he is ready and willing to leave his wife for her and just TRY to see if they can continue on. He begged for a chance to prove himself better ~~~ to your wife {instead of his}. 

Of course, I have no idea what actually happened. Just my take on the limited info you've provided here.

So what should you do?

Your wife is fresh off contact and it's a terrible time to fight and argue about it. When she comes off the high and faces the reality that OM isn't really a good risk and the reality you aren't going to simply allow her to run off to 'TRY' with OM and be her backup plan, then she's going to really have to make a decision. The best chance the affair has for making it is if she moves out NOW and just cuts off contact with you {a relationship she would also have to go through withdrawal over}. 

If you want to divorce ~~ fine. File and get it going. Otherwise, filing for divorce is only more likely to result in you being divorced. Filing for divorce as a strategy to 'wake up' a wayward wife rarely works because, right now, it's what she wants anyway and you're just lightening her load by filing, taking responsibility for getting the divorce going while confirming you really didn't/don't care enough about her to fight for her {one of her likely justifications for cheating anyway}. I also have found, long term, in recovery, a wayward wife that might have come begging back sometime during the divorce because the betrayed filed for divorce to wake them up, rarely recovers. What I mean by that is she ends up feeling defeated and beat versus cherished and loved {not that they deserved to be cherished and loved and fought for at all ~ but the mere act of fighting for your marriage and wayward wife despite them NOT being worth it at the time often helps tremendously in recovery} 

Therefore, delay. Don't engage or participate in conversations about her moving out, divorce or whatever. Everyday she's home is another day past that fresh contact with OM and she'll become more manageable {unless she has contact again and again and again which you won't tolerate or consent to and sure you will and should likely tell her she needs to leave if she intends to continue her affair and not disrespect you or your family in the family home by having contact with OM there ~~ but don't discuss or negotiate her leaving, what she can take, where she should or can go, what about bills and expense or what to do about the child/children. She CAN just go ~ pack a bag and leave. You are not her prison warden ~ but you will also not negotiate or enable her destroying your marriage and family. You just wand "no contact". 

You should also be exposing and really get after getting OM in trouble with his job and licensing. You need him to understand he's not going to just walk off into the sunset with your wife and that either getting back with his wife OR moving on to less troubling single women is his best bet. 

Not a fan of 180'ing either in this situation. You detaching, conflict avoiding and letting her just figure this out with a well experienced serial cheating older OM is just giving them both exactly what they want ~~ an affair without interference, time for OM to dig his claws in further and time to figure out what they want {which they never really figure out until later when the consequences get big enough}. 

I know this is hard and exposing her will most definitely result in having to expose yourself and your previous affair {or your wife will be sure to tell them} but FIGHTING for her in a loving manner is ultimately the best way to bust up the affair, actually get 'no contact' and truly recover your marriage. I also think take notice that she was willing to try to recover your marriage last week {with some expected hesitation and uneasiness} which to me indicates she's not completely lost to you right now and that her rationalizations and justifications are weak. She was willing last week, she'll be willing to recover again as long as she perceives YOU consistently willing to try and fighting for her. Turning your back {180} or filing for divorce simply confirms for her 'OM is my only shot at happiness right now so I've got to take it'. 

Your wife didn't give up on you ~ don't give up on her ~ be firm but be empathetic. Try to get her to open up and let you into her decision making and thought pattern. Don't yell at her or punch walls. Be calm, defiant and confident that your wife and you belong together. That YOU are her true 'soulmate'.


----------



## GusPolinski

Five hour meeting for "closure"...?

Yeah.

_Riiiiight._

Hell, I'd be willing to bet that "closure" was the only thing that _wasn't_ happening.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lostinthought61

Wall, did the OMW say that she is divorcing her husband?


----------



## Walleye

Xenote said:


> Wall, did the OMW say that she is divorcing her husband?


No she did not. But the OM must have found out his wife told me too much and he felt betrayed. He was to tell her everything about what they discussed, but he did not even discuss it now.


----------



## Walleye

Bomb shell was this, one of the other girls is likely pregnant. This is not nearly as big as I was hoping for. I could have know this would not make her run.


----------



## Walleye

Actually, I am almost certain he does not want a divorce. I am sure he would love to still continue his ways even though he is on a path to try to fix himself. I think he will always be what his is and he is a huge threat to any community. I have no hesitations taking him on and exposing him in whatever way necessary. I have to figure out how to be smart though before any action.


----------



## Walleye

Quality, I think your post makes the most sense now. I am starting to think so much more clearly. No longer desperate. I really likr you take on it and think it fits my situation very weel. Right now I hate the thought of going home and seeing her face tonight.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Walleye said:


> Bomb shell was this, one of the other girls is likely pregnant. This is not nearly as big as I was hoping for. I could have know this would not make her run.


Well this isn't terrible news, all things considered. It has to be a wake up call to your wife. She's at least number three in the pecking order. 1. Wife 2. Pregnant girlfriend 3. Her. 

Your wife is the "other woman" and other women resent not being number one in the pecking order. Hopefully this served as a wake up call.

Five hour meeting still concerning. I guarantee they were physical, question is how much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walleye

I know she feels cheated, and this is so ironic. I almost flipped when she said that. I like the comment about the pecking order. You have to be likely right on this perspective. 

I think my dilemma is really this, does she really want out and always has, or is the affair causing her be be insane, in a fantasy world. She has for the first time admitted she has been unhappy the past 2 years, but the affair has been less than 2 months. I confirmed her story with phone records. I know women tend to rewrite history to justify their current feelings and action while in an affair. But hard to say she didn't feel this way the past 2 years. Honestly, I never saw anything out of normal until the affair started.


----------



## Walleye

Quality, or others, how do I communicate she can not communicate with him any longer while in this house and avoid discussing her leaving? How does this conversation play out?


----------



## jsmart

Rewriting marital history is standard operating procedure. But you saying that your sex life was practically non-existent for the past 2 years does not jive with her affair only being 2 months. You think you know it because of phone records? Really. Didn't they see each other at work or school practically everyday? Please don't believe a word that she says. She's like a crack addict that will say anything for her next hit but wants to keep plan b in play. FYI, you're plan B. 

This is NOTHING like your affair. You, like the majority of WHs, folded as soon as you saw your marriage about to implode and immediately went to work to earn her forgiveness. Your wife, like the majority of WWs, is not remorseful, really wants to run off to a fantasy affair land where rules and responsibilities don't apply and the well being of your children is unimportant. 

The entitled mentality is so disgusting. Make me think of: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.


----------



## Hope1964

Walleye said:


> Quality, or others, how do I communicate she can not communicate with him any longer while in this house and avoid discussing her leaving? How does this conversation play out?


It isn't a CONVERSATION, it is a DIRECTIVE. You TELL her that if she has ANY more contact with the OM, you will take the brakes off the lawyer who is holding on to the D papers for you right now.

Oh, wait, you didn't take THAT advice either.

Are you actually going to DO what we say you have to? Or are we going to see a post from you tomorrow or the next day about how you caved to her and screwed her silly because she proclaimed her undying love to you yet again and you fell for it?


----------



## PhillyGuy13

You don't know where her head or her heart is right now. Think of her as going through heroin withdrawals. You need to give it time for her head to clear. Assuming that's what you want. No contact is imperative. Each time she sees him it's a hit and you are back to square one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Malaise

Walleye said:


> Quality, or others, how do I communicate she can not communicate with him any longer while in this house and avoid discussing her leaving? How does this conversation play out?


Why do you honestly care? The marriage is over. 

Just let her go.


----------



## Walleye

jsmart said:


> Rewriting marital history is standard operating procedure. But you saying that your sex life was practically non-existent for the past 2 years does not jive with her affair only being 2 months. You think you know it because of phone records? Really. Didn't they see each other at work or school practically everyday? Please don't believe a word that she says. She's like a crack addict that will say anything for her next hit but wants to keep plan b in play. FYI, you're plan B.
> 
> This is NOTHING like your affair. You, like the majority of WHs, folded as soon as you saw your marriage about to implode and immediately went to work to earn her forgiveness. Your wife, like the majority of WWs, is not remorseful, really wants to run off to a fantasy affair land where rules and responsibilities don't apply and the well being of your children is unimportant.
> 
> The entitled mentality is so disgusting. Make me think of: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.


No they didn't see each other at school often if at all. She only had class once a week They did not and never did work together. She has only been working her new job a month at an entirely different office. This made her affair possible. I don't think our sex life was much different than a lot of couples with 4 children. It wasn't often, but not terribly scarce either. No, I don't beleive anything she says anymore. I really dont. She is not the one who initiated sex a week ago, I did. I'm not saying I disagree or won't follow advice here, just giving the info I have. I am certainly hearing your advice and listing.


----------



## TX-SC

As much as I like to see relationships survive, I think your best course of action is to see an attorney and start the D process. I think you are fighting a losing fight.


----------



## ButtPunch

OP 

You are supposed to get mad. You need to get mad.


----------



## Tron

FTFY



ButtPunch said:


> OP
> 
> You are supposed to get mad at her. You need to get mad at her.


OR you could just get mad at us for telling you what you need to hear but don't want to hear.

Either way good luck.


----------



## Malaise

Walleye said:


> No they didn't see each other at school often if at all. She only had class once a week They did not and never did work together. She has only been working her new job a month at an entirely different office. This made her affair possible. I don't think our sex life was much different than a lot of couples with 4 children. It wasn't often, but not terribly scarce either. No, I don't beleive anything she says anymore. I really dont. She is not the one who initiated sex a week ago, I did. I'm not saying I disagree or won't follow advice here, just giving the info I have.* I am certainly hearing your advice and listing*.


Don't start now. 

The 5 hour 'meet up' for closure was a horrible idea. People advised against it, strongly.

Why did you think it was anything other than horrible?

15 minutes, supervised, would be bad. 5 hours alone?


----------



## weightlifter

GAAAAAAH! Where is your inner Klingon!

Qaw'!


----------



## jsmart

Walleye said:


> *No they didn't see each other at school often if at all. She only had class once a week They did not and never did work together. She has only been working her new job a month at an entirely different office. This made her affair possible.* I don't think our sex life was much different than a lot of couples with 4 children. It wasn't often, but not terribly scarce either. No, I don't beleive anything she says anymore. I really dont. She is not the one who initiated sex a week ago, I did. I'm not saying I disagree or won't follow advice here, just giving the info I have. I am certainly hearing your advice and listing.


Come on Walleye. I'm telling you, the time line is wrong. This has been going on much longer than you think. You can't actually believe that when she started the new job that she also started affair with her MM. A man that you believe she rarely saw at school. 

Her wanting to leave the man that she's been with for 15 years and is the father of her 4 kids, including a little 3 year old for her boyfriend of 7 weeks doesn't add up. You must fully understand what you're thinking of forgiving before you can forgive not to mention the one your forgiving has to actually want forgiveness. From what you've revealed, she still wants to be with Dr Feelgood.


----------



## Walleye

Everyone, I know I screwed up by allowing the meeting. I was not checking through thread after a certain point and had already dictated the conditions for them to meet. Man I wish I would have seen these responses earlier. My wife kept hanging it on me, that she allowed me to see my partner when I made a mistake in my younger stupid years to end it in person. I will admit I think the no contact part was the hardest for me when I was over. But it went away slowly and was gone after some time. There was no need for me to see her in person, but these are life lessons you should never have to learn more than once. I would never tolerate this from any other person ever in my life.


----------



## Tron

Walleye said:


> *I would never tolerate this from any other person ever in my life.*


You've said all you need to say right here!


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Walleye said:


> Quality, or others, how do I communicate she can not communicate with him any longer while in this house and avoid discussing her leaving? How does this conversation play out?


Good lord.

The biggest reason your wife is still at home is because she depends on you financially. You guys have a lot of kids and there's no way she wants to work full time and then come home to 4 kids and always be tired, broke and frustrated, living on her own.

It ain't rocket science.

Life with you is 1000% times easier for *her*.

If she didn't have kids, she'd be gone.

If that's how you want to keep this prize you married - because she needs you to support her and help with the kids - then I feel sorry for you.


----------



## Walleye

rzmpf said:


> Ok, this meeting must be one of the worst ideas ever. Why didn't you pay for a room for them to make this farce complete?
> 
> Do you know what the alleged a-bomb is and if he even told her? (No supervision...man...5 hours....man....you really had your kids with you???? WTF... i digress).
> 
> Seems that the meeting was the final nail in the coffin that is your marriage.


I now see how this sounded. NO, the kids were not with. That is Fvcked up. She went alone and they met. I took the kids in my vehicle to see what the Fvck was taking so long. She doesn't even know this. 

Right now, I'm not seeing us together. I would guess if she wants me back, I will realize no way. However, I am not going to make it easy for him. There are too many other people he can hurt. I just need to stay out of legal trouble.


----------



## Malaise

Walleye said:


> Everyone, I know I screwed up by allowing the meeting. I was not checking through thread after a certain point and had already dictated the conditions for them to meet. Man I wish I would have seen these responses earlier.* My wife kept hanging it on me, that she allowed me to see my partner when I made a mistake in my younger stupid years to end it in person. *I will admit I think the no contact part was the hardest for me when I was over. But it went away slowly and was gone after some time. There was no need for me to see her in person, but these are life lessons you should never have to learn more than once. I would never tolerate this from any other person ever in my life.


So, you did it out of guilt.

Does she have any?


----------



## bandit.45

You can tell how deeply in the fog you are when basic ideas that are common sense to everyone else make no sense to you.


----------



## GusPolinski

Walleye said:


> Quality, or others, how do I communicate she can not communicate with him any longer while in this house and avoid discussing her leaving? How does this conversation play out?


"You have one choice to make: 'me' or 'not me'."

"'Me' means that we will BOTH work toward a full and complete reconciliation of our marriage. 'Me' means absolutely no further contact with him -- via ANY means -- whatsoever... ever again. If you have to change your job, phone numbers, email addresses, social media accounts, or whatever it takes to establish and maintain -- forever -- no contact... then you will do it."

"Failure to accept and abide by the terms of 'me' will essentially amount to choosing 'not me', which will mean divorce."

"No discussion, no debate, that's the deal, those are the terms, period."

Oh, and you have to _mean_ it.

On the other hand, if you're set on divorce and are looking for a way to get her to commit to NC w/ OM while still living at home...?

Yeah... good luck w/ that.

Here's the very first thing that you have to accept -- you can't _make_ her do (or not do) anything, and you can't control what she does (or doesn't do).

All you can really do is to tell her what will happen as a result of her choices... and then follow through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jsmart

That 5 hour meeting with her lover made you look so weak. In her inner hamster brain, her lover is brave and worldly. To boldly face the husband of the woman he's been banging and he's even able to get the husband to babysit while he lays down the law. 

I would bet my next paycheck that she must have tearfully begged him to run off with her and he probably convinced her to lay low for a while. When you were out of sight, you don't think he held and kissed her?

And there you were keeping your distance. Having your 4 kids, including a little 3 year old, sitting in the car for freaking 5 hours. "Daddy, why is Mommy talking to that man for so long?" Your kids may not know what's going on but they know in their gut it's not good.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

My advice, at this point?

Let her go. File for divorce and separate. If she thinks she is going to live happily ever after with a married serial cheater who's got another pregnant baby momma on the side, well reality is going to set in right quick. He's got a ton on his plate and a third woman with four kids ain't gonna fit. But that will be her problem not yours.

Maybe she comes to her senses. Maybe not. Maybe she gives you a complete turnaround and rededicates herself to you. A divorce can be halted. Maybe you decide she isn't worth the trouble and you like being single.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Malaise

jsmart said:


> *That 5 hour meeting with her lover made you look so weak. In her inner hamster brain, her lover is brave and worldly. To boldly face the husband of the woman he's been banging and he's even able to get the husband to babysit while he lays down the law.
> *
> I would bet my next paycheck that she must have tearfully begged him to run off with her and he probably convinced her to lay low for a while. When you were out of sight, you don't think he held and kissed her?
> 
> And there you were keeping your distance. Having your 4 kids, including a little 3 year old, sitting in the car for freaking 5 hours. "Daddy, why is Mommy talking to that man for so long?" Your kids may not know what's going on but they know in their gut it's not good.


QFT


----------



## jsmart

Walleye said:


> Everyone, I know I screwed up by allowing the meeting. I was not checking through thread after a certain point and had already dictated the conditions for them to meet. Man I wish I would have seen these responses earlier. *My wife kept hanging it on me, that she allowed me to see my partner when I made a mistake in my younger stupid years to end it in person.* I will admit I think the no contact part was the hardest for me when I was over. But it went away slowly and was gone after some time. There was no need for me to see her in person, but these are life lessons you should never have to learn more than once. I would never tolerate this from any other person ever in my life.


Why did you let her use your affair to beat you into submission? Your affairs were not even remotely similar. When you said your good bye to your former affair partner did you take long? I'd bet you did it in 20 minutes out of respect to your wife. This is when your marriage was childless, with less on the line. She takes 5 hours knowing she has 4 kids at home. They both totally disrespected you. Was it her or him prolonging the meeting?


----------



## Ceegee

Walleye said:


> She went alone and they met. I took the kids in my vehicle to see what the Fvck was taking so long. She doesn't even know this.




Read this to yourself over and over. 

This is your weakest moment. 

Loading your kids in the car to spy on a condoned meeting between your wife (their mother) and her lover. 

So weak. Doing drive-by's. 

I don't mean to beat a dead horse and am not about shaming BS's. 

This is to wake you up and see your part in this. 

You owe no apologies to us as we are here for you. 

But you've gotta pick a moment where you stand firm. For you. For your kids. Even for your wife. 

Just stop taking the sh1t. 

Read the part I quoted then say "stop taking the sh1t". 

Lather, rinse, repeat. 

As far as what to do next, follow Gus' advice but you better be prepared before you confront. 

Say it firmly and do not waver. Calm, cool, dispassionate. 

Be prepared for responses. 

Tell her you stand by your statement and until she decides what she's going to do, and shows you with actions, there is nothing further to talk about. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jsmart

Walleye said:


> I now see how this sounded. NO, the kids were not with. That is Fvcked up. *She went alone and they met. I took the kids in my vehicle to see what the Fvck was taking so long. She doesn't even know this. *
> 
> Right now, *I'm not seeing us together.* I would guess if she wants me back, I will realize no way. However, *I am not going to make it easy for him.* There are too many other people he can hurt. I just need to stay out of legal trouble.


You don't even know for sure that they were at the parking lot the whole 5 hours? You fearfully creep up with your kids in tow and don't even make your presence known. Why are you afraid? This POS should be the fearful one. 

I bet she was all dolled up. This meeting took 5 hours because she was desperately trying to sell herself to this guy. How was her appearance when she got home? Did she go straight to shower? 

You don't want to make it easy for him? You literally gave them your blessing so they can make their last minute pitches for leaving their families or at a minimum get the logistics figured out so they can take their love affair further underground.


----------



## Dyokemm

Why haven't you exposed this POS to his school administration for having an A with one of his students?

I promise you, that would put his CAREER in jeopardy.....he would have wanted zero to do with any closure meeting if he was facing the axe at work......rather, he would have thrown your WW under the bus so fast her head would be spinning.

THAT would have been the 'closure' you needed your WW to see/have out of this disgusting A.

Not 5 hours of loving statements and plans on how to take the A underground or both leave their M's.

And you actually believed this POS was going to out himself on the OTHER OW and his 'love child' to your WW?

Why would you have EVER believed he was going to be honest about that?

Cheaters LIE.......there was ZERO percent chance he was ever going to admit to your WW that he was a POS and not the KISA she believes he is.

You have ONE option left now Walleye.......'nuclear' exposure to both your families and all friends, exposure of POSOM to his school administration and the state medical licensing board, and filing for D immediately.

You now have to go scorched earth 100%....and hope that the realization that her world is about to come crashing down around her head, while POSOM throws her under the bus and runs for the hills, will cause your WW to pull her head out of her a**.

Even then, after this level of disrespect, I don't know why you would even want her back.


----------



## Satya

Sigh...

I'll just leave this here.










Good luck, OP.


----------



## farsidejunky

Ceegee said:


> Read this to yourself over and over.
> 
> This is your weakest moment.
> 
> Loading your kids in the car to spy on a condoned meeting between your wife (their mother) and her lover.
> 
> So weak. Doing drive-by's.
> 
> I don't mean to beat a dead horse and am not about shaming BS's.
> 
> This is to wake you up and see your part in this.
> 
> You owe no apologies to us as we are here for you.
> 
> But you've gotta pick a moment where you stand firm. For you. For your kids. Even for your wife.
> 
> Just stop taking the sh1t.
> 
> Read the part I quoted then say "stop taking the sh1t".
> 
> Lather, rinse, repeat.
> 
> As far as what to do next, follow Gus' advice but you better be prepared before you confront.
> 
> Say it firmly and do not waver. Calm, cool, dispassionate.
> 
> Be prepared for responses.
> 
> Tell her you stand by your statement and until she decides what she's going to do, and shows you with actions, there is nothing further to talk about.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Or take it one step further and tell her that every moment that she cannot or will not choose looks like "not you" and proceed accordingly.


----------



## RWB

W,

Something to think about...

Right now your stuck in moment of Should I or Shouldn't in regard to your WW. Understandably. From my experience, I was in the same boat. What I getting at... your tunnel vision locked in on the short term. 

I not implying your WW is will continue to cheat on you if you and her R. What I'm saying is at the core, people rarely ever change who they really are. She obviously disrespects you. Maybe due to your affair, maybe she just doesn't really love you anymore. Happens. 

In a strange way, you are lucky. You have been given a truthful glimpse into the future. No one ever explained it to me this way when I decided to R with my WW. I like you was so focused on the short term, I never honestly considered what it would be like in 5+ years. 

I don't think my wife is cheating again (fooled before), but those feelings of being taken for granted or disrespected have increased steadily with each passing year. Things she promised would never do again due to trust issues, are now ignored. 

Do not ignore the long haul.


----------



## Walleye

RWB said:


> W,
> 
> Something to think about...
> 
> Right now your stuck in moment of Should I or Shouldn't in regard to your WW. Understandably. From my experience, I was in the same boat. What I getting at... your tunnel vision locked in on the short term.
> 
> I not implying your WW is will continue to cheat on you if you and her R. What I'm saying is at the core, people rarely ever change who they really are. She obviously disrespects you. Maybe due to your affair, maybe she just doesn't really love you anymore. Happens.
> 
> In a strange way, you are lucky. You have been given a truthful glimpse into the future. No one ever explained it to me this way when I decided to R with my WW. I like you was so focused on the short term, I never honestly considered what it would be like in 5+ years.
> 
> I don't think my wife is cheating again (fooled once), but those feelings of being taken for granted or disrespected have increased steadily with each passing year. Things she promised would never do again due to trust, are now ignored.
> 
> Do ignore the long haul.


I have realized much of what you state here is true. I was locked in on the short term for now 1 week as of today. 

I only slept 2 hours last night. I have started to think about the long term. I still don't think she has been completely honest with me. I began to wonder if my 2 year old is even my child. I never questioned it because he looks identical to my other 2 boys. But I began thinking, how can I ever stop these thoughts in the future? How can I ever lover her again. As of today, my tiny amount of love I had left is now in the negative. I dislike her. I wonder if I hate her. I can not be happy with my kids when she is around this past week. I think my fog is finally lifting. I don't want her to be in my house tonight and want to tell her such. I have thought about one last demand today, either she is all in and agrees to counseling, or there is no me ever. I am not even sure I want to give that chance to her.


----------



## Satya

Walleye said:


> I have realized much of what you state here is true. I was locked in on the short term for now 1 week as of today.
> 
> I only slept 2 hours last night. I have started to think about the long term. I still don't think she has been completely honest with me. I began to wonder if my 2 year old is even my child. I never questioned it because he looks identical to my other 2 boys. But I began thinking, how can I ever stop these thoughts in the future? How can I ever lover her again. As of today, my tiny amount of love I had left is now in the negative. I dislike her. I wonder if I hate her. I can not be happy with my kids when she is around this past week. I think my fog is finally lifting. I don't want her to be in my house tonight and want to tell her such. I have thought about one last demand today, either she is all in and agrees to counseling, or there is no me ever. I am not even sure I want to give that chance to her.


I really hate to say this, but a lot of kids have very similar features to other kids when they're young. They don't develop real strong facial structure until they are in their late 20s/early 30s. Sure, they can have a lot of your wife's features and some of your features, but we've had men here swear up down, left and right that their kids are theirs "because they look like me." They go and take a paternity test and find out they're not the dad, and that the OM actually looked a bit like them (that one has got to hurt).

So, again I'm not trying to rile you up more... But for your own security and ability to have the truth, it will be recommended that you do a paternity test. You don't have to announce it to her (and I wouldn't recommend that you do). Just go get a kit and you can send it in pretty privately.


----------



## Walleye

Thanks for the info.


----------



## eric1

Making a requirement of counselling doesn't work. All it allows her to do is lie to the counselor and punt the decisions that both of you need to make. Counseling is a component of a relationship that needs help healing. Right now you don't have a relationship to heal.

What you need to do is serve her papers and then give her the opportunity to fix herself, as you did. Though I'll be honest, it's likely she made a mistake reconciling with reconciling with you. This could just be a delayed revenge / exit affair.


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## straightshooter

Walleye,

Do you really believe that in five hours they had no physical contact???? because they were in a public place????In a car???

She is involved with a serial cheater whose wife is still there and putting up with it. 

You need ought of this and you need to stop taking advice or jointly agreeing with anything with his wife. is that where you want to be??? She agreed to the in person meeting because he has cheated multiple times and she is accepting it for whatever reason. 

You need to file for divorce and get out of denial.


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## PhillyGuy13

You see this advice posted frequently to "DNA the kids" when a wife has been caught cheating. Frequently the response we get back is "oh I know they are mine. How dare you, Internet stranger, question my child's paternity"

Look odds are 99%+ that the kids are yours. But what the DNA test accomplishes is this. It sends a clear signal to your wife that because of her infidelity, you now question the very foundation the family has been built upon. Causes her to pause and think "oh sh!t what have I done?" Even if she wasn't physical with anyone else during the time your kids were conceived. In her mind right now the affair isnt an issue that involves the precious kids. Now you order a DNA test, and it's like a splash of cold water to her face that she has destroyed all trust within the marriage AND it's now affecting the children. That's powerful for a mother to realize.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

This is such a precautionary tale for affairs, because if you reconcile you have no real moral standing if your spouse ever does it to you. 

This marriage broke after your affair. You thought you were "in love".....for many women that's actually worse than the sex. Most women will never trust you again after that. 

So now you're down to arguing about who's affair was worse. There is more on the line now with kids, but in terms of the personal relationship with your wife you're the one that broke that. 

And yes, the fact that you had to end yours in person put you in a morally weak position here. She shouldn't have seen him in person, but after your actions how can you really protest? It was ok for you but not her because.....

I do think you should move to end this, and maybe she'll come out of it. Either way you've lost very little.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Quality

Walleye said:


> I don't want her to be in my house tonight and want to tell her such. I have thought about one last demand today, either she is all in and agrees to counseling, or there is no me ever. I am not even sure I want to give that chance to her.


That's fine if you intend to stick to it. However most don't. You just have hope and confidence she'll pick you. Most betrayed husband's {including many of the same ones telling you to file and give her the full ultimatum NOW on this thread} tried ultimatum after ultimatum. When you give an ultimatum and the wayward doesn't pick you {they usually don't pick at all ~~ they just get non-committal on everything} then the betrayed spouse almost always takes a step back and two or three days later tries to draw another 'line in the sand' and then a week later, another one.

It's a weak process and the 'take away sale' is seen as clearly manipulative. It's like when the salesman at the car dealership tries to convince you this price is ONLY today ~~~ "sure it is, I'll see you tomorrow then because I don't like being challenged and I believe you'll be just as hungry for a commission tomorrow". It also paints you into a corner where in order to prove you aren't being manipulative you almost have to file for divorce/separation when the last thing your family needs right now is to force her out and into the available and waiting arms of corruptive and manipulative OM.

Regardless of whether you save your marriage, your wife is still the mother of your children. You don't want OM around either way so busting up the affair is priority number one right now so you can get to 'no contact' and then see whether you can and want to recover.

How do you do that? 

Just say "no". Try to talk to her. Be calm. Occupy her time and attention as much as possible {more time with you and family the less time she has for OM}. If she tries to keep contact in your home you simply say 'no' and tell her how disrespectful and hurtful that is. Don't consent to contact outside the home but you cover that when you tell her you are not her warden and she is a free woman in a free country and can leave anytime she wants. If she stays then she should be respectful of you in the very least. Don't cry or beg. No 'i love you's'. If she persists, you come here to talk about options ~~~ such as cutting off the internet at the house or implying you've got the internet keylogged, the house bugged/wired and a 'sniffer' on the cable such that she'll THINK she can't use it privately with OM so she won't. 

Let HER threaten divorce. You just stick to talking about reconciliation, slamming OM, exposing {and then defending yourself from her anger over exposure by telling her you are simply doing everything you can to try to save her from making the same mistake you almost made 8 years ago}. 

When posters say you can't love or nice a wayward back, I both agree and disagree. You must be lovingly firm, lovingly expose and lovingly empathetic. Madhatters have the most difficult part with being lovingly firm and exposing, however, the empathetic part is much easier for you because you've been there and know how crazy affair wayward thinking is. Be empathetic is OK ~~~ but it's a fine line to being enabling when your wife NEEDS you to fight for her. This really may be your best opportunity to demonstrate to her that 8 years ago your affair was really a huge mistake and that you truly cherish her. That you will fight for her.

You mentioned legal concerns ~~ don't sweat it too much as long as you are truthful your First Amendment rights protect you. He's a massage teacher ~~ it's not like he's Bill Gates. 


Read this ~~~> The 8 cow wife


----------



## Walleye

So you think this is a good idea to bring a test home and show her? I mean, I have no reason to trust anything about her and she can't say a darn thing about. I don't want this to backfire and make it seem I don't love him, because that is not the case and is off the table. She has claimed I have favorites children like this bothers her and that infuriates me.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Walleye said:


> So you think this is a good idea to bring a test home and show her? I mean, I have no reason to trust anything about her and she can't say a darn thing about. I don't want this to backfire and make it seem I don't love him, because that is not the case and is off the table. She has claimed I have favorites children like this bothers her and that infuriates me.


Show her? No, this is a terrible idea. Don't play games or try to manipulate her.

You get the DNA test done so YOU know. I wouldn't even tell her I did it.

It's none of her business. And please test ALL of them. Once a cheat always a cheat.


----------



## TX-SC

Go ahead and test all three, then she can't claim favoritism and you'll know for sure about all of them, including the youngest. At this point you really don't have anything to lose. 

I do believe you need legal advice, but you should test your children too. Go see a lawyer and figure out your options.


----------



## BetrayedDad

straightshooter said:


> Do you really believe that in five hours they had no physical contact???? because they were in a public place????In a car???


My POSXW did virtually all her banging in cars parked in public places..... OP needs to wise up and fast.


----------



## lifeistooshort

BetrayedDad said:


> Show her? No, this is a terrible idea. Don't play games or try to manipulate her.
> 
> You get the DNA test done so YOU know. I wouldn't even tell her I did it.
> 
> It's none of her business. And please test ALL of them. Once a cheat always a cheat.


Does once a cheat always a cheat apply to him too?

Just wondering. It really changes the dynamic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lmtosf

If you don't want to tell the kids why you/they are doing the test, you can say you are switching health insurance companies and they need to do a health pre-screen. That's what I did. Of course, your wife may tell them the truth to make you look bad and mess them up worse.


----------



## Walleye

BetrayedDad said:


> Walleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you think this is a good idea to bring a test home and show her? I mean, I have no reason to trust anything about her and she can't say a darn thing about. I don't want this to backfire and make it seem I don't love him, because that is not the case and is off the table. She has claimed I have favorites children like this bothers her and that infuriates me.
> 
> 
> 
> Show her? No, this is a terrible idea. Don't play games or try to manipulate her.
> 
> You get the DNA test done so YOU know. I wouldn't even tell her I did it.
> 
> It's none of her business. And please test ALL of them. Once a cheat always a cheat.
Click to expand...

This once a cheat always a cheat I don't buy. This would make all cheaters serial cheaters. I can tell you I made a mistake in a bad part of my life and will never forget it. But I can also tell you many people tend to learn from mistakes. I know I did and will never repeat that mistake. The cliché has some truth to it, but it should never be used as fact. I know I'm not here to provide advice, but I didn't agree with the last sentence. Again, thanks for all responses so far. It really helps.

No I would not show or tell her if I did test, but I took it the other way that I should and thought it seemed strange so asked the question for clarity.


----------



## WasDecimated

Walleye, I just caught up with your story. It is so similar to mine in most respects, right down to the remorseless WW and the 5 hour closure/cuddle meeting. You are making all the same mistakes I did. 

The reason you have become so Beta around your WW is because you are still holding on to hope that you can save your marriage, get your wife back, and go back to a normal life. 

Do yourself a big favor and accept this…Your marriage is over…Done…Finito! It will never be the same. I don’t know one woman that has had an affair and then fell back in love with her husband. It almost never works that way. You are just delaying the inevitable. 

If you stay…your life will be miserable, with no relief in sight. You are plan B my friend, the practical option that she has no passion or real love for anymore. You will never trust her again, and with her lack of remorse, you shouldn’t. In time, resentment will keep growing between you two. You for her cheating, lack of remorse, and no effort in fixing the marriage, and her resentment towards you for keeping her away from her soulmate and true luuuve. Also, have fun keeping tabs on her every move, for the rest of your life.

If you file for D, you will move forward and heal from this mess. You will regain yourself and find someone better. Also, you will be an example for your children to follow. Show them that they should never tolerate being disrespected, lied to, and cheated on. Teach them to be strong and not co-dependent. 

Learn from my mistakes. Knowing what I know now, I would have filed for D immediately after finding out instead of wasting so much time. Divorce her ass now while she is still in the fog, you may get a better deal!


----------



## BetrayedDad

lifeistooshort said:


> Does once a cheat always a cheat apply to him too?
> 
> Just wondering. It really changes the dynamic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I missed that he cheated also but I will take your word for it.

Yes, it would apply to him too. Most people don't cheat "one time".

Most cheaters have a history of it with current and/or prior relationships.


----------



## Quality

Decimated said:


> Walleye, I just caught up with your story. It is so similar to mine in most respects, right down to the remorseless WW and the 5 hour closure/cuddle meeting. You are making all the same mistakes I did.
> 
> The reason you have become so Beta around your WW is because you are still holding on to hope that you can save your marriage, get your wife back, and go back to a normal life.
> 
> Do yourself a big favor and accept this…Your marriage is over…Done…Finito! It will never be the same. I don’t know one woman that has had an affair and then fell back in love with her husband. It almost never works that way. You are just delaying the inevitable.
> 
> If you stay…your life will be miserable, with no relief in sight. You are plan B my friend, the practical option that she has no passion or real love for anymore. You will never trust her again, and with her lack of remorse, you shouldn’t. In time, resentment will keep growing between you two. You for her cheating, lack of remorse, and no effort in fixing the marriage, and her resentment towards you for keeping her away from her soulmate and true luuuve. Also, have fun keeping tabs on her every move, for the rest of your life.
> 
> If you file for D, you will move forward and heal from this mess. You will regain yourself and find someone better. Also, you will be an example for your children to follow. Show them that they should never tolerate being disrespected, lied to, and cheated on. Teach them to be strong and not co-dependent.
> 
> Learn from my mistakes. Knowing what I know now, I would have filed for D immediately after finding out instead of wasting so much time. Divorce her ass now while she is still in the fog, you may get a better deal!


This is completely untrue.

Many couples reconcile and go on to have happy, loving relationships just as you did for several years after your affair. With more proper work, recovery can last a lifetime.

I've not only accomplished it, my wife and I have helped many others achieve loving full reconciliations as well.

Your wife loved you once ~ she'll love you again.

Have faith in her as she did in you 8 years ago. 

She's worth it ~ just as you were.

Your only concern right now should be ~~ Bust up the affair and no contact.

Don't worry too much about what she says because lots of addicts say the craziest things when you trying taking away or interfering with their drug of choice.


----------



## GuyInColorado

Quality said:


> This is completely untrue.
> 
> Many couples reconcile and go on to have happy, loving relationships just as you did for several years after your affair. With more proper work, recovery can last a lifetime.
> 
> I've not only accomplished it, my wife and I have helped many others achieve loving full reconciliations as well.
> 
> Your wife loved you once ~ she'll love you again.
> 
> Have faith in her as she did in you 8 years ago.
> 
> She's worth it ~ just as you were.
> 
> Your only concern right now should be ~~ Bust up the affair and no contact.
> 
> Don't worry too much about what she says because lots of addicts say the craziest things when you trying taking away or interfering with their drug of choice.


WTF? Cheaters don't deserve second, third or fourth chances. Once you cheat, the marriage is over. You both go find new people that are a better fit. Life is too short to be married to a cheater until you die. Fawk that! LOL

Reconciliation is pushed by religious people and therapists. It's more money in their bank accounts/coffers. Always follow the money, it will lead to the truth.


----------



## MyRevelation

Quality said:


> This is completely untrue.


I think decimated had it right and it is NOT "completely untrue".

The overwhelming majority of WW/BH scenarios end in D. Now throw in the madhatter aspect, an unremorseful WW, and the disrespect of a 5 hour closure meeting and the odds against a successful R go down to near ZERO.

You keep trying to sell this fantasy of a self-deceptive R, but reality seems to keep getting in the way. I'm not going to make any blanket, one size fits all statements. Sure, there are some instances of truly successful R's, but they are few and far between and they require the right ingredients for success. Unfortunately, the OP's situation doesn't contain these ingredients and he would be better served to keep his focus and spend his energies on protecting himself financially and getting as good of a custody arrangement as possible.

I have yet to see the first BH that D'd to come back and say he wishes he had held on longer, but we have seen hundreds/thousands that stayed too long express how they wish they had acted quicker and more decisively. 

A man's self-respect is a terrible thing to lose.


----------



## lifeistooshort

BetrayedDad said:


> I missed that he cheated also but I will take your word for it.
> 
> Yes, it would apply to him too. Most people don't cheat "one time".
> 
> Most cheaters have a history of it with current and/or prior relationships.


Read his original post, which he edited at some point to include his own affair.

He had one 8 years ago before the kids but early in their marriage, where he thought he was "in love".

That's really damaging to a woman.....the in love part. It wrecks our view of our guy as a safe protector. 

And he apparently also ended his affair in person, so his moral standing with her is very weak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

GuyInColorado said:


> WTF? Cheaters don't deserve second, third or fourth chances. Once you cheat, the marriage is over. You both go find new people that are a better fit. Life is too short to be married to a cheater until you die. Fawk that! LOL
> 
> Reconciliation is pushed by religious people and therapists. It's more money in their bank accounts/coffers. Always follow the money, it will lead to the truth.


He got one after he cheated. 

Just saying.

I personally think the marriage is too damaged to save, but I understand how it might be hard to leave with 4 kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Graywolf2

Walleye said:


> This once a cheat always a cheat I don't buy. This would make all cheaters serial cheaters. I can tell you I made a mistake in a bad part of my life and will never forget it. But I can also tell you many people tend to learn from mistakes. I know I did and will never repeat that mistake. The cliché has some truth to it, but it should never be used as fact.


I agree. Some people learn from their mistakes while others don’t. But if you did “X” once then that proves that you’re capable of “X.” That’s all. 



Walleye said:


> She has claimed I have favorites children like this bothers her and that infuriates me.


You need to nip that in the bud. DNA your 2 year old and don’t tell anyone. He’s too young to know what you’re doing. It’s not fair to you or him for you to have doubts. You’re not really testing him anyway; you’re testing your wife.

Buy a kit a WalMart or about any drugstore for about $30. They give you a Q-tip to swab the inside of your cheek and his. Then send the kit to a lab and pay an additional fee. They can email you the results.


----------



## jld

Quality said:


> Read this ~~~> The 8 cow wife


Nice story. ultimatehusband.com is a great site.


----------



## BetrayedDad

lifeistooshort said:


> Read his original post, which he edited at some point to include his own affair.
> 
> He had one 8 years ago before the kids but early in their marriage, where he thought he was "in love".
> 
> That's really damaging to a woman.....the in love part. It wrecks our view of our guy as a safe protector.
> 
> And he apparently also ended his affair in person, so his moral standing with her is very weak.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, I thought you meant recently. Yes, I recall the 8 years ago affair. It's his guilt about that, that's keeping him from dumping her. 

Like I said in an earlier post, She took him back. She can't hold it against him anymore. She entered into a fake "R" so SHE owns that.

I'm not condoning him, trust me, if anything SHE should of left him knowing or when she realized she could never have forgiven him.

Which she obviously never did by shacking up with lover boy. It's obvious his affair played a role in her decision to cheat also. 

At this point, who cares WHO files for divorce? This relationship is 100% toxic and only being held together by codependence.


----------



## lifeistooshort

BetrayedDad said:


> Oh, I thought you meant recently. Yes, I recall the 8 years ago affair. It's his guilt about that, that's keeping him from dumping her.
> 
> Like I said in an earlier post, She took him back. She can't hold it against him anymore. She entered into a fake "R" so SHE owns that.
> 
> I'm not condoning him, trust me, if anything SHE should of left him knowing or when she realized she could never have forgiven him.
> 
> Which she obviously never did by shacking up with lover boy. It's obvious his affair played a role in her decision to cheat also.
> 
> At this point, who cares WHO files for divorce? This relationship is 100% toxic and only being held together by codependence.



Yes. I agree with your last paragraph.

I think her decision to get another guy was weak and unproductive.....if she couldn't forgive him that should have been dealt with head on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WasDecimated

MyRevelation said:


> I think decimated had it right and it is NOT "completely untrue".
> 
> The overwhelming majority of WW/BH scenarios end in D. Now throw in the madhatter aspect, an unremorseful WW, and the disrespect of a 5 hour closure meeting and the odds against a successful R go down to near ZERO.
> 
> You keep trying to sell this fantasy of a self-deceptive R, but reality seems to keep getting in the way. I'm not going to make any blanket, one size fits all statements. Sure, there are some instances of truly successful R's, but they are few and far between and they require the right ingredients for success. Unfortunately, the OP's situation doesn't contain these ingredients and he would be better served to keep his focus and spend his energies on protecting himself financially and getting as good of a custody arrangement as possible.
> 
> I have yet to see the first BH that D'd to come back and say he wishes he had held on longer, but we have seen hundreds/thousands that stayed too long express how they wish they had acted quicker and more decisively.
> 
> A man's self-respect is a terrible thing to lose.


MyRevelation...well said 

I'd hate to see Walleye waste years like I did. I've been divorced now for almost 4 years. Not having the sense to walk away sooner is my biggest, and only regret.

I've read too many accounts of couples struggling to R for years only to end up divorced anyway. Those years take a tool on you mentally, emotionally and physically. There is also a financial hit to be considered. The longer you are married, the longer you pay spousal.


----------



## Quality

Decimated said:


> MyRevelation...well said
> 
> I'd hate to see Walleye waste years like I did. I've been divorced now for almost 4 years. Not having the sense to walk away sooner is my biggest, and only regret.
> 
> I've read too many accounts of couples struggling to R for years only to end up divorced anyway. Those years take a tool on you mentally, emotionally and physically. There is also a financial hit to be considered. The longer you are married, the longer you pay spousal.


YEARS ~~ who said anything about giving her or trying for YEARS? 

I also never said she deserved another chance. We're all sinners and absent the blood of the lamb, we all "deserve" a lot worse than we're gonna get. 

Just because you wasted way too long trying, unsuccessfully, to save your marriage and ended up divorced {successfully - because I'm not anti-divorce} doesn't mean this poster's wife isn't worth "trying" for a little while and in a more time efficient manner. You had your choices so let's honor this poster's choices. 


I know many divorced persons that ended up regretting their divorce and/or regret not trying/fighting for their marriage/family. I've known divorced cheaters that, upon reconciliation and remarriage to their ex-spouse, wish they'd known sooner that their betrayed spouse still cared about them, were willing to take them back and wanted to recover at all. Far too many betrayed husband's just going along with the whole charade hoping that by being nice and accommodating their wife will end up back home eventually. Instead they just demonstrated a lack of care AND self respect. 

In my opinion, it's the trying too long or not trying at all that people most regret years later.

Which brings us back to this situation. If the original poster can successfully assist in busting up the affair and getting 'no contact' in place through loving confrontation, exposure and without enabling, he may, at least, be able to get OM out of his family and, perhaps, then evaluate the merits of reconciliation. If not, after a couple months, he'll still be able to file for divorce IF HE CHOOSES. Waiting a year would be far too long ~~ even for a madhatter.


----------



## Steve1000

eric1 said:


> In case I wasn't clear: No


I hate people like you who just beat around the bush...


----------



## TaDor

About the whole "Once a cheater, you know that person has the capacity to cheat again".

Everyone has the capacity to cheat. Every single human being.


----------



## Steve1000

lifeistooshort said:


> He got one after he cheated.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> I personally think the marriage is too damaged to save, but I understand how it might be hard to leave with 4 kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This has nothing to do with the thread, but I love reading your posts in the voice of Leela.


----------



## Ralph Bellamy

BetrayedDad said:


> My POSXW did virtually all her banging in cars parked in public places..... OP needs to wise up and fast.


Ditto for me. On her lunch break.


----------



## Walleye

Thank you Quality. I think this sums up how I feel. I am trying to look at the positives of each outcome. I sure am not going to give up without a fight. For my family. I have sinned and caused her immense pain. I feel my sin may have been swept under the rug more than it should have. It may have been damaging her for 8 years among possible issues that are not yet known. I want her to get better, with or without me in the end. I owe it to my family to try. We have all sinned and been given a second chance. Your encouraging words are really speaking to me and I have found myself closer to God this past week. If nothing else, I will lead a life closer to his foots steps.

I think it would be wise of us to attend some counseling sessions. I can get up to 5 sessions free from work. These do not need to be with the intent of reconciling, but to come to peace and understand with what we have both done. We are both so confused right now and need expert help. Everyone can be forgiven if they truly repent. We will always have 4 amazing children together, so why not figure out our demons and then reevaluate our situation. She has agreed to no contact. I know I have no clue if she will hold up her bargain, but she at least agreed and told me she would tell me if he contacted her. He is already exposed himself to many people, but I'm not sure how many. His close friends, my wife, supposedly his business partner. I may just have to ensure this is done on my own accord. I want him far away from my family in any circumstance. I apologize for anything unclear here, little to no sleep last night.


----------



## BetrayedDad

TaDor said:


> About the whole "Once a cheater, you know that person has the capacity to cheat again".
> 
> Everyone has the capacity to cheat. Every single human being.


Whatever helps you sleep at night.... I realize it may be a minority these days but some people do have ethics and impulse control.


----------



## Evinrude58

I'm thinking this based on my own experience:

OP, you are feeling this is YOUR FAULT because you cheated in the past, 8 years before. And you feel it's your fault for lots of other reasons. This is what cheating spouses do who are not remorseful--- they twist the truth and place blame on others, usually the BS, in order to assuage the guilt of what they've done. The BS bites every time, because they WANT it to be their fault. They want it to be their fault because then they can fix themselves and their wife will love them again. It doesn't work that way. You can't accept blame for your wife's affair because you had one 8 years ago. Your affair has nothing to do with her going after another man. If anything, it should have made her see clearly what she was doing and avoid other men totally. 
But, I know you can't help feeling this way, even if it's not true.

I really think you are looking for any shred of hope. Personally, I think hoping for reconciliation with a wife who is not remorseful is just a recipe for longer, much more intense pain. Accepting that the relationship is over is the first step in moving on and getting happy again. I think false hope gets in the way of that.

Good luck in whatever route you choose. I know how painful this is. I recommend exercise and trying to force yourself to eat something. I lost 35 pounds in 2 months. I know how it feels.
Just KNOW that if you choose to move on and accept that your marriage is over, it's not the end of the world. There are lots of other, more loyal women out there to love.


----------



## TaDor

BetrayedDad said:


> Whatever helps you sleep at night.... I realize it may be a minority these days but some people do have ethics and impulse control.


I didn't say anything about keeping me up at night. I'm stating a simple fact... anyone and everyone has the capacity to cheat, as is to commit rape or murder, etc.

I recommend this video is recommended everyone, before marriage, during marriage, before or after an affair: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8QKOUbosNo
Even the Dr. of marriage builders admits its possible for HIMSELF to cheat.

Yet from both sexes, cheating rates is upper 60s. More people are cheating in their marriage than not. ONS or full blown romance.


----------



## MJJEAN

BetrayedDad said:


> My POSXW did virtually all her banging in cars parked in public places..... OP needs to wise up and fast.


QFT.
@Walleye I was a WW in my first marriage. Multiple short and long term affairs for about 6 years. I can't count how many times an AP and I fooled around in a car in some parking lot somewhere. Parks, grocery stores, malls....

The ONLY man I have ever spent talking to in a car for 5 hours is the AP I left my exH to be with.




lifeistooshort said:


> That's really damaging to a woman.....the in love part. It wrecks our view of our guy as a safe protector.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's worse than just that. By letting her spend 5 hours alone with her AP, Walleye basically reinforced the idea that he doesn't value her. A man who values his mate guards her and would never have allowed them to be alone under the circumstances.


----------



## TaDor

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Walleye foolishly trusted her.

When my WW went to see the POSOM to discuss options, I knew she was screwing me over when she walked out the door. Her friend/our room-mate told her she was making a mistake (I wasn't home yet).

But yeah, I was pretty much prepared for that outcome and that is when I told her to NOT step foot in *my* apartment. She only had the back of her clothes for 2-3 days. No cellphone either since I locked it and I pay the bill on it. I went pretty nuclear on her at that point. She was so pissed off at me - oh well.

Walleye, *IF* its your name on the phone service, you have full access control the any phone.

MJJean... its a long time ago, you didn't care about what you did back then... could you do it all over again or do it in the future?


----------



## TDSC60

Back to the title of your thread. "Wife had affair - Won't commit to our marriage".

All your plans for R mean nothing and is a huge waste of time unless she is remorseful for the affair and willingly commits to your marriage. Asking for time to see how she feels in the future is just her stringing you along.

For whatever reason, I get the feeling this is her exit affair and she will not give it up easily. Be ready for them to take it underground. Stay in contact with OBS and compare notes.


----------



## Walleye

Evinrude58 said:


> I'm thinking this based on my own experience:
> 
> OP, you are feeling this is YOUR FAULT because you cheated in the past, 8 years before. And you feel it's your fault for lots of other reasons. This is what cheating spouses do who are not remorseful--- they twist the truth and place blame on others, usually the BS, in order to assuage the guilt of what they've done. The BS bites every time, because they WANT it to be their fault. They want it to be their fault because then they can fix themselves and their wife will love them again. It doesn't work that way. You can't accept blame for your wife's affair because you had one 8 years ago. Your affair has nothing to do with her going after another man. If anything, it should have made her see clearly what she was doing and avoid other men totally.
> But, I know you can't help feeling this way, even if it's not true.
> 
> I really think you are looking for any shred of hope. Personally, I think hoping for reconciliation with a wife who is not remorseful is just a recipe for longer, much more intense pain. Accepting that the relationship is over is the first step in moving on and getting happy again. I think false hope gets in the way of that.
> 
> Good luck in whatever route you choose. I know how painful this is. I recommend exercise and trying to force yourself to eat something. I lost 35 pounds in 2 months. I know how it feels.
> Just KNOW that if you choose to move on and accept that your marriage is over, it's not the end of the world. There are lots of other, more loyal women out there to love.


Thanks.

Do I think my affair had a part in this? Yes I do more today than I ever had. Is it excusable? NO. I don't think we handled my affair as we should have. I think it left some skeletons. However, we went on to have a great many years after this. We had an amazing trip just she and I to a beautiful national park this June. We spents 10 days together camping in the wilderness. Seeing the beauty of nature like another world. Hiking a 10000 foot mountain. We had more fun and love than our honeymoon. She wanted sex! Yes, so I was blindsided by this discovery.

Am I at fault for our marriage issues? Yes, 50%. She owns the other 50 and knows it. I said it. I said she owns the affair 100%. I will not allow her to make this my fault. Have I thought it at times? Yes I'm sure I have. I think we all do at least at one point. What I am saying is I'm not going to give up so quickly. Not when she is fresh off contact. As I understand, many woman have a hard time showing remorse while in withdrawal. I get it. Also, this guy is a pro. If full remorse does not come, I am prepared for what we need to do. 

I have put in a lot of walking last week. It was great for me. I have not eaten as much as I'd like but this is coming around. I am already lean, so can not lose weight. I do feel at peace right now. Not sure why. Maybe I have accepted both options and know I have a strong support group, especially from work.


----------



## MJJEAN

TaDor said:


> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
> 
> MJJean... its a long time ago, you didn't care about what you did back then... could you do it all over again or do it in the future?


If I were in the exact same situation, would I have affairs? The terrible truth is that, yeah, probably. It was a real sh*t situation and those affairs kept me sane. ExH broke the seal, so to speak, and I saw no reason to deny myself what I wanted or needed for the sake of a sham marriage.

Would I do it again in the future? No. Everything in me instinctively rejects anything not DH. I haven't wanted anyone else since I laid eyes on him nearly 17 years ago.


----------



## MJJEAN

Walleye said:


> I have put in a lot of walking last week. It was great for me. I have not eaten as much as I'd like but this is coming around. I am already lean, so can not lose weight. I do feel at peace right now. Not sure why. Maybe I have accepted both options and know I have a strong support group, especially from work.


Whatever comes, you have to take care of you. You need good nutrition and hydration to fuel your body and mind. When people aren't getting decent nutrition and/or become dehydrated, they tend to feel cruddy and not think as clearly. You can't afford fuzzy thinking and certainly don't need a physical reason to feel cruddy.

If you aren't eating and drinking as much as you need, try setting an alarm on your phone to remind you to eat and drink something. Even if you don't feel like it. Extra Brownie Points if you drink water or juice and eat green leafy things with lean meats or nuts. :laugh:


----------



## Walleye

Drinking over a gallon of water a day the past week. I did get on some antidepressants 2 days ago. I want this only short term to make sure I can function at work. The eating is probably back to normal by today finally. 

I really want to hash through what all happened with a counselor. Including my past mistake. I would like my wife to attend. I just don't know how she would feel about this yet. She has been considerate and made me dinner along with the kids the past 2 nights. (mostly for the kids of course)

I just want to get a grip on this all. It may help us understand what we both really want. If I decide and she decides to reconcile, I won't do it without a proper plan in place for a new healthy marriage. So much would need to change, and this is not negotiable for me.


----------



## jsmart

MJJEAN said:


> Whatever comes, you have to take care of you. You need good nutrition and hydration to fuel your body and mind. When people aren't getting decent nutrition and/or become dehydrated, they tend to feel cruddy and not think as clearly. You can't afford fuzzy thinking and certainly don't need a physical reason to feel cruddy.
> 
> If you aren't eating and drinking as much as you need, try setting an alarm on your phone to remind you to eat and drink something. Even if you don't feel like it. Extra Brownie Points if you drink water or juice and eat green leafy things with lean meats or nuts. :laugh:


I'm going to echo MJJEAN, you have to take care of your health. I know your appetite is gone. but you need to get some quality calories in you. I recommend drinking Ensure. It's loaded with protein and other nutrients your body needs. 

It's good that your walking. Very important that you get active. Hopefully soon you you'll be able to get into a gym and workout some of that pain. Physical activity will also hopefully help you get some deep sleep. If anxiety is keeping you up, request that your Dr prescribe a sleep aide for a few days.


----------



## jld

Walleye said:


> Drinking over a gallon of water a day the past week. I did get on some antidepressants 2 days ago. I want this only short term to make sure I can function at work. The eating is probably back to normal by today finally.
> 
> I really want to hash through what all happened with a counselor. Including my past mistake. I would like my wife to attend. I just don't know how she would feel about this yet. She has been considerate and made me dinner along with the kids the past 2 nights. (mostly for the kids of course)
> 
> I just want to get a grip on this all. It may help us understand what we both really want. If I decide and she decides to reconcile, I won't do it without a proper plan in place for a new healthy marriage. So much would need to change, and this is not negotiable for me.


Professional counseling sounds like a great idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walleye

I do have some xanax prescribed too. I'm about to pass out now! Going to bed, just hope I don't wake up in the middle of the morning like usual!


----------



## MEM2020

For certain a lot would need to change. 

And the very first thing needs to happen is for you to stop treating your marriage as a series of conflicts that you need to win. 

I physically cringed a few times reading this thread. Your self assessment about how skilled you are at winning arguments was - kind of eye opening. How do you think your wife feels knowing that every time you argue - you will keep going until you win.

And I have news for you. Your sex life didn't crash because you have young kids. Lots of folks with young kids have good sex lives. 

It crashed because that was the ONE place in the marriage your wife could WIN - could exercise power. And she did. 

Blaming your sex life on the kids - and needing to win every argument - at work or home - are all symptoms of the same underlying issue. It's ALL ego protection. And if you don't fix that - you cannot fix your marriage. 






Walleye said:


> Drinking over a gallon of water a day the past week. I did get on some antidepressants 2 days ago. I want this only short term to make sure I can function at work. The eating is probably back to normal by today finally.
> 
> I really want to hash through what all happened with a counselor. Including my past mistake. I would like my wife to attend. I just don't know how she would feel about this yet. She has been considerate and made me dinner along with the kids the past 2 nights. (mostly for the kids of course)
> 
> I just want to get a grip on this all. It may help us understand what we both really want. If I decide and she decides to reconcile, I won't do it without a proper plan in place for a new healthy marriage. So much would need to change, and this is not negotiable for me.


----------



## TaDor

@Walleye : I might have across harsh, when I didn't mean to. ALL betrayed spouses trusts our loved ones, we want them to be truthful to us. That why it hurts so much.

When your wife was bouncing between AP and you... she doesn't know what she wants (My wife said that to me, but I didn't know what she was talking about and she couldn't say - it was a redflag I didn't understand). But when she saw the POSOM, your chances of pulling out of this dive took a huge hit. Sorry.

Your depression is temporary. I lost 25 lbs in 30 days... which I wish I kept off.
When it comes to meds, the some docs like to go the easy route... I highly recommend AGAINST Xanax. Its addictive and can actually cause more mental problems (according to two of my doctors). They said it makes you feel better, but it'll make you feel worse when it wears off. So you'll have big waves of emotions up and down.

I was put on a med (forgot the name, but it was a blue pill- and NOT Viagra - for a short while, as it makes you feel stoned for a few minutes. ) Then I was put on two meds. (non addictive).
Lexapro for the morning, to help with depression and reduce mood swings. (10~20mg) I only took this stuff for 2 months.
Gabapentin, up to 3 times a day or when needed when having an anxiety attack. (300~400mg) Usually kicks in about 15 minutes after taking it, so I kept it handy in my car. I did this 3x a day for a week, now I may take it once every few nights to help me relax my thoughts and go to sleep. 

Xanax, IMHO - maybe used against you in court, showing how unstable you are. I did take it for about 10 days, and yeah - I didn't get better.

Its too early for your wife to get her head out her ass. She doesn't care about the kids at this time. Exposure may help. Do it right, exposure 101. Like other say, could be an exit affair.

Good luck.


----------



## WasDecimated

Quality said:


> Which brings us back to this situation. If the original poster can successfully assist in busting up the affair and getting 'no contact' in place through loving confrontation, exposure and without enabling, he may, at least, be able to get OM out of his family and, perhaps, then evaluate the merits of reconciliation. If not, after a couple months, he'll still be able to file for divorce IF HE CHOOSES. Waiting a year would be far too long ~~ even for a madhatter.


Your experience is not the same as my experience.

A couple of months...really? She'll still be in the fog after a couple of months and pining over her OM. Busting up an affair is one thing, getting a WW to honestly commit to R is another. To R properly takes years. Remember...cheaters lie. It's hard to know where you stand in R when you are dealing with a liar.

R'ing is a long, hard road


----------



## jld

MEM2020 said:


> For certain a lot would need to change.
> 
> And the very first thing needs to happen is for you to stop treating your marriage as a series of conflicts that you need to win.
> 
> I physically cringed a few times reading this thread. Your self assessment about how skilled you are at winning arguments was - kind of eye opening. How do you think your wife feels knowing that every time you argue - you will keep going until you win.
> 
> And I have news for you. Your sex life didn't crash because you have young kids. Lots of folks with young kids have good sex lives.
> 
> It crashed because that was the ONE place in the marriage your wife could WIN - could exercise power. And she did.
> 
> Blaming your sex life on the kids - and needing to win every argument - at work or home - are all symptoms of the same underlying issue. It's ALL ego protection. And if you don't fix that - you cannot fix your marriage.


Consider this and the posts by lifeistooshort, Walleye. Looking at yourself and how you can improve is going to be more empowering than focusing on whatever your wife has done wrong. You only have control over yourself, after all.


----------



## Graywolf2

Graywolf2 said:


> DNA your 2 year old and don’t tell anyone. He’s too young to know what you’re doing. It’s not fair to you or him for you to have doubts. You’re not really testing him anyway; you’re testing your wife.
> 
> Buy a kit a WalMart or about any drugstore for about $30. They give you a Q-tip to swab the inside of your cheek and his. Then send the kit to a lab and pay an additional fee. They can email you the results.


It sounds like you’re going to work on your marriage and keep your family intact. In order to have the best chance of doing that I would secretly DNA your two year old before he’s old enough to ask what you’re doing.

If he turns out to be biologically yours then nothing will have changed. If he turns out not to be then you can think of it as an adoption. Then you have years to adjust to it and decide when it’s appropriate to tell him (for medical reasons) or you can decide not to tell him at all.

That’s much better than wondering for the rest of your life. I know of a case where the kid didn’t look like the OM until he hit puberty. Then there was no denying it because he was a clone of the OM. 

You can treat it like an adoption in that you chose him. You can tell him that you found out when he was two and could have gotten a divorce. But you loved him so much that you stayed to be his dad.

Tell your wife that if you find out that he’s not biologically yours. It’s better to get credit and rebalance the scales a little from your affair. Passing off another man’s kid for you to raise is 100 times worse than any affair. If you’re going to forgive that get credit.


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## Walleye

MEM2020 said:


> For certain a lot would need to change.
> 
> And the very first thing needs to happen is for you to stop treating your marriage as a series of conflicts that you need to win.
> 
> I physically cringed a few times reading this thread. Your self assessment about how skilled you are at winning arguments was - kind of eye opening. How do you think your wife feels knowing that every time you argue - you will keep going until you win.
> 
> And I have news for you. Your sex life didn't crash because you have young kids. Lots of folks with young kids have good sex lives.
> 
> It crashed because that was the ONE place in the marriage your wife could WIN - could exercise power. And she did.
> 
> Blaming your sex life on the kids - and needing to win every argument - at work or home - are all symptoms of the same underlying issue. It's ALL ego protection. And if you don't fix that - you cannot fix your marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Drinking over a gallon of water a day the past week. I did get on some antidepressants 2 days ago. I want this only short term to make sure I can function at work. The eating is probably back to normal by today finally.
> 
> I really want to hash through what all happened with a counselor. Including my past mistake. I would like my wife to attend. I just don't know how she would feel about this yet. She has been considerate and made me dinner along with the kids the past 2 nights. (mostly for the kids of course)
> 
> I just want to get a grip on this all. It may help us understand what we both really want. If I decide and she decides to reconcile, I won't do it without a proper plan in place for a new healthy marriage. So much would need to change, and this is not negotiable for me.
Click to expand...

I agree. I stated those things because I have realized how wrong I have been and the past. I know this truly. We did not argue much, and I'm a lot more understanding than the way I put that earlier. I have learned over the years to first understand the other persons point of view and then negotiate. I am much better at this now, understanding others and not imposing just my view.


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## jld

Walleye said:


> I agree. I stated those things because I have realized how wrong I have been and the past. I know this truly. We did not argue much, and I'm a lot more understanding than the way I put that earlier. I have learned over the years to first understand the other persons point of view and then negotiate. I am much better at this now, understanding others and not imposing just my view.


How can you apply this to your present situation?


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## Rubix Cubed

lifeistooshort said:


> He got one after he cheated.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> I personally think the marriage is too damaged to save, but I understand how it might be hard to leave with 4 kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Did he, or just a temporary reprieve?
She's using his affair as an excuse for hers, so I'd say he didn't get a second chance . She just took her time getting her revenge affair in.


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## lifeistooshort

Rubix Cubed said:


> Did he, or just a temporary reprieve?
> She's using his affair as an excuse for hers, so I'd say he didn't get a second chance . She just took her time getting her revenge affair in.


Disagree. Women are very competitive with each other, so often when their guy cheats they get so wrapped in not letting the other woman win that they don't really consider their guy's role. It's always easier to hold the ap more accountable.

But after that initial win they may start to consider what they actually won, and what they won is a cheater.

Particularly if the affair really wasn't thoroughly dealt with. I'm not sure how it was dealt with but op did post that it wasn't handled as well as it should have been. 

So it's possible that emotionally she never really entered back in, and when you factor in all of the other marital issues you set the stage for vulnerability.

I don't know that she necessarily thought of it as revenge, but no doubt his affair helped her justify it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't know that she necessarily thought of it as revenge, but no doubt his affair helped her justify it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Likely after it was already budding, yes.


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## WasDecimated

lifeistooshort said:


> Disagree. Women are very competitive with each other, so often when their guy cheats they get so wrapped in not letting the other woman win that they don't really consider their guy's role. It's always easier to hold the ap more accountable.
> 
> But after that initial win they may start to consider what they actually won, and what they won is a cheater.


I've seen this happen with men too. I actually felt this way initially. It was me vs OM...WW was the prize. I woke up over a year later and realized the prize I was putting so much effort towards was a deeply flawed cheater/liar.


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## Rubix Cubed

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't know that she necessarily thought of it as revenge, but no doubt his affair helped her justify it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 If she is using his affair to justify hers I would say that IS the definition of a revenge affair. I also think we are saying the same thing, maybe just getting snagged up in the wording. Or maybe as Farside mentioned it's a matter of timing, but the original point was that he got off scot free and so she should too. I disagree with that.


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## jsmart

OP's WW told him that she's been unhappy for past 2 years. I believe their youngest is 2 years old. So it sounds like becoming a mother of 4 may have triggered some depression or the heavy workload of a new child combined with the health issues of her beloved uncle, AND going to school may have all combined to create the perfect brew for her to lower her boundaries. 

I've noticed that women that improve themselves while their husband stays stagnant, start to have a wondering eye or are receptive to interlopers. Throw in a husband that may not have been understanding enough and always has to be right and I can see where a higher status Dr, who's experience with schmoozing a woman's panties off can strike gold. 

She was plotting on trading up but like most WWs, didn't understand that the majority of MM are just future faking. Which is why she spent 5 hours trying her best to entice Dr Feelgood to leave his wife for her. 

Walleye REALLY needs to know how long this affair really was. He even has a doubt about his youngest. Full steam to R without the facts nor remorse all because he had an affair 8 years ago is a recipe for failure.


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## lifeistooshort

Rubix Cubed said:


> If she is using his affair to justify hers I would say that IS the definition of a revenge affair. I also think we are saying the same thing, maybe just getting snagged up in the wording. Or maybe as Farside mentioned it's a matter of timing, but the original point was that he got off scot free and so she should too. I disagree with that.


I don't think she should get off scott free, but I do think his affair may need to be revisited to ascertain what effect it may have had on the marital dynamic. At very least it puts him in the difficult position of being a hypocrite while trying to enforce reasonable boundaries.....he doesn't have the same moral high ground as someone who's been faithful.

To simply write it off because it was 8 years ago is foolish.....we see guys on TAM all the time who have trouble getting past their wife's affair from years ago and they are understood. Why would this be different? True she should've dealt with it head on if she couldn't get over it but maybe she thought she could, and as has been pointed out their is a power dynamic in the marriage that favors op, so she may not have felt she could face it. 

Of course I don't know if his affair had anything to do with it.....maybe not, but to refuse to consider the possibility is narrow minded.

And i do not think using his affair to justify hers means revenge.....it's an issue of motivation. A revenge affair is for the purpose of paying one back; that isn't necessarily what this is. It is likely a case of a marriage that had a lot of issues, wife is vulnerable for a variety of reasons and chooses to go with another guy. Once that happens she justifies it by telling herself he did it, but her purpose isn't to pay him back. It's a weak and foolish choice, but it happens unfortunately. 

A revenge affair is probably better given the choice between the two because one who takes revenge is probably still emotionally invested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

jsmart said:


> OP's WW told him that she's been unhappy for past 2 years. I believe their youngest is 2 years old. So it sounds like becoming a mother of 4 may have triggered some depression or the heavy workload of a new child combined with the health issues of her beloved uncle, AND going to school may have all combined to create the perfect brew for her to lower her boundaries.
> 
> I've noticed that women that improve themselves while their husband stays stagnant, start to have a wondering eye or are receptive to interlopers. Throw in a husband that may not have been understanding enough and always has to be right and I can see where a higher status Dr, who's experience with schmoozing a woman's panties off can strike gold.
> 
> She was plotting on trading up but like most WWs, didn't understand that the majority of MM are just future faking. Which is why she spent 5 hours trying her best to entice Dr Feelgood to leave his wife for her.
> 
> Walleye REALLY needs to know how long this affair really was. He even has a doubt about his youngest. Full steam to R without the facts nor remorse all because he had an affair 8 years ago is a recipe for failure.


I think this is a fair assessment, and of course he shouldn't proceed full steam ahead out of guilt for what he's done. 

My only point was that his affair muddies the waters here and may need to be revisited to ascertain what role it might have played and to see if there was anything she needed to put it behind her that she didn't get. They can and should still deal with hers, he just doesn't have the same moral high ground as one who'd been faithful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB

Walleye said:


> I have realized much of what you state here is true. I was locked in on the short term for now 1 week as of today.
> 
> I only slept 2 hours last night. I have started to think about the long term.* I still don't think she has been completely honest with me. *I began to wonder if my 2 year old is even my child. I never questioned it because he looks identical to my other 2 boys. But I began thinking, how can I ever stop these thoughts in the future? How can I ever love her again.


W,

In regards to full 100% honesty... good luck.

It seems with affairs, there's always more. I not saying your WW won't tell the truth, but more than likely she won't volunteer any information unless directly asked. And then there is lies of omission. 

The conflict is very basic... she is trying to put it in the past, remove it from present. You are just arriving at the party and trying to get up to speed. 

For example, 3+ years down the road from DD my WW and I were having a "discussion" about a place she once met her AP. I had assumed she met him at his apartment being single. Nope. She revealed that they met at nearby hotel room. I said you never told me that. She responded... "What difference does it make?" She could not understand why it made a difference to me.


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## Rubix Cubed

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't think she should get off scott free, but I do think his affair may need to be revisited to ascertain what effect it may have had on the marital dynamic. At very least it puts him in the difficult position of being a hypocrite while trying to enforce reasonable boundaries.....he doesn't have the same moral high ground as someone who's been faithful.
> 
> To simply write it off because it was 8 years ago is foolish.....we see guys on TAM all the time who have trouble getting past their wife's affair from years ago and they are understood. Why would this be different? True she should've dealt with it head on if she couldn't get over it but maybe she thought she could, and as has been pointed out their is a power dynamic in the marriage that favors op, so she may not have felt she could face it.
> 
> Of course I don't know if his affair had anything to do with it.....maybe not, but to refuse to consider the possibility is narrow minded.
> 
> And i do not think using his affair to justify hers means revenge.....it's an issue of motivation. A revenge affair is for the purpose of paying one back; that isn't necessarily what this is. It is likely a case of a marriage that had a lot of issues, wife is vulnerable for a variety of reasons and chooses to go with another guy. Once that happens she justifies it by telling herself he did it, but her purpose isn't to pay him back. It's a weak and foolish choice, but it happens unfortunately.
> 
> A revenge affair is probably better given the choice between the two because one who takes revenge is probably still emotionally invested.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 He is undoubtedly a Hypocrite. I think the affairs carry equal weight with the exception of hers happened with her having complete knowledge of the damage his did to her, so I guess that makes her a hypocrite also, not to mention that there was 8 more years invested in the relationship. That may have no bearing, but it seems to me it should.
I also see your point about Intent being the difference in a "revenge" affair. I guess I was looking at it in more of a "results"/post parameter, instead of a "thought"/pre parameter.


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## badmemory

Rubix Cubed said:


> I think the affairs carry equal weight with the exception of hers happened with her having complete knowledge of the damage his did to her,


There is another important difference. As I read it, he went no contact immediately and didn't need to ponder about his choice between the AP and her.

Back then, I would have given her the same advice as him, had he acted like she's acting now.


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## jsmart

Rubix Cubed said:


> He is undoubtedly a Hypocrite. I think the affairs carry equal weight with the exception of hers happened with her having complete knowledge of the damage his did to her, so I guess that makes her a hypocrite also, not to mention that there was 8 more years invested in the relationship. That may have no bearing, but it seems to me it should.
> I also see your point about Intent being the difference in a "revenge" affair. I guess I was looking at it in more of a "results"/post parameter, instead of a "thought"/pre parameter.


I disagree. Yes, they both had sexual PA/EA but noticed how her husband Said his goodbye and went to work on earning her love. Meanwhile his wife was obviously looking to leave. But to me the even bigger difference is that now they have 4 kids, including a little 2 year. 

To me, that changes everything. Adultery in a 2 year childless marriage is not as serious or painful as it is for a 10 year marriage with 4 kids. Did I mention that one of them is 2? What kind of mother is risking her very vulnerable family's well being to screw around? Not saying Walleye is innocent and that his affair doesn't count but I find it hard to weigh them equally on the scales of injustice.


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## TaDor

Yep... what JSmart said.

Also... as by stats... men usually try to save the marriage, women tend to destroy the marriage when caught. We are slightly different creatures... :\
@RWB : While you own your own situation with your cheating wife. Keep in mind of the time frame of the affair of when it happened and how long it lasted. Its like, what did you have for breakfeast on July 12? It would be more scary if YOU did know. My WW told as much as she could remember within our various discussions - when she was finally admitted to the infertility. She answered best she could. Even the tough ones on an emotional level. But being honest was still better than the lies to "to not hurt you". She couldn't remember everything... and sometimes, she'd offer up info on her own that came to mind, that she wanted to be honest about. I'll give her points for that. She didn't remember many of the exact details. Hopefully you told your wife and she understood why it was important for you.

When she came clean and gave me her phone, which had hundreds of texts and who knows how many photos on it (Her settings were 500 text messages) between her and the POSOM, I can guess what they talked about and skimmed the text messages from the past day. I didn't want to see any "luv you" type stuff from a week or so ago. I asked her to delete the texts and all photos. At that time, there was nothing more needed to LEARN about their ending relationship. Of course, if I was trying to catch her, I would save and look at every single message.


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## Rubix Cubed

jsmart said:


> I disagree. Yes, they both had sexual PA/EA but noticed how her husband Said his goodbye and went to work on earning her love. Meanwhile his wife was obviously looking to leave. But to me the even bigger difference is that now they have 4 kids, including a little 2 year.
> 
> To me, that changes everything. Adultery in a 2 year childless marriage is not as serious or painful as it is for a 10 year marriage with 4 kids. Did I mention that one of them is 2? What kind of mother is risking her very vulnerable family's well being to screw around? Not saying Walleye is innocent and that his affair doesn't count but I find it hard to weigh them equally on the scales of injustice.


You must not have completely read my post. I said equal "WITH THE EXCEPTION OF" and the listed 2 reasons why hers was worse. One being the 8 (was it 10?) year investment in the marriage.


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## Walleye

Are we really talking about whose affair was worse? We are both guilty of a sin. We all are. I have prayed for my forgiveness and I hope God will forgive. This does not change my responsibility of a husband and a father. Right now it is a debilitating war, but now I know why my wife said she fought for me after my affair. It had to be unbearable for her. I will not give up so quickly on my part either. I am sure she will come around. But I know this will be a long uphill war and will take months to years to repair our marriage. I owe it to her and especially my children. I must set an example of how to fight for what is right, no matter the pain it may cause. Never give up.


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## Ceegee

Walleye said:


> Are we really talking about whose affair was worse? We are both guilty of a sin. We all are. I have prayed for my forgiveness and I hope God will forgive. This does not change my responsibility of a husband and a father. Right now it is a debilitating war, but now I know why my wife said she fought for me after my affair. It had to be unbearable for her. I will not give up so quickly on my part either. I am sure she will come around. But I know this will be a long uphill war and will take months to years to repair our marriage. I owe it to her and especially my children. I must set an example of how to fight for what is right, no matter the pain it may cause. Never give up.




Great post. 

Except last sentence. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TaDor

The pain caused by either affair is real. That is not what we are comparing.
Men and women think differently. BS or WS, the MALE will usually want to keep the family intact. The FEMALE will more likely want to break up the family, especially when she is the wayward. And then they let their pride* get in the way before admitting they have done wrong.

*pride maybe a wrong word. But depending on the woman & circumstances: pride, embarrassment, shame, cold-blooded and other reasons can prevent a woman from wanting to repair the damage she has done.
Sometimes, it may take a while - but then the xHusband may have already moved on when her fog lifts and she has the guts to talk or try to work something out.

Have you read "Not just friends" - it does go over HOW TO TALK to the cheating spouse and how to heal as a couple or alone.

By being calm and letting my WW talk about her feeling, the affair - without me yelling at her, being super pissed off (rightfully so) - it allows her to open up more, rather than shut down.

The gift of us talking is the ability to work on our relationship. And much as she pissed me off and hurt me so many months ago, its worth a shot to start over. I love her so, I love her now.


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## jsmart

Most women can only love and emotionally have sex with 1 man. Once the sex with the OM starts, you'll notice that sex with the husband stops or trickles down to occasional cold duty sex. Doesn't matter if he was a good husband and father for many years. She just wants to be loyal to her new man. 

That's why I believe that most affairs that women have would be exit affairs, if only their OM were willing to take on another man's cheating wife. Unfortunately for them, most men instinctively know that their affair partner is a bad risk, especially if you add the fact that most of these WWs have children and it becomes a no brainer for most men that she's not marriage material.


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## becareful2

I would tell her this:

When I cheated years ago, you fought for me and our marriage. I was remorseful and recommitted myself to you and our family, and I have been totally faithful ever since. I didn't realize that you harbored so much pain and resentment towards me, and now that you have gotten your pound of flesh and cheated, I want to fight for you. I want to fight for us and our family. However, you are not remorseful. Neither are you committed to me or our marriage, so I will offer you the gift of freedom. I release you from your marriage vows and I will let you go to chase after your own happiness. It's definitely not something I want because I still love you dearly but it takes two to make a marriage work, and I don't want to keep you here if your heart is with another man.


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## RWB

jsmart said:


> *Once the sex with the OM starts, you'll notice that sex with the husband stops or trickles down to occasional cold duty sex.* Doesn't matter if he was a good husband and father for many years. She just _wants to be loyal to her new man.
> _
> 
> * most men instinctively know that their affair partner is a bad risk, *especially if you add the fact that most of these WWs have children and it becomes a no brainer for most men that she's not marriage material.


*Cold duty sex...* more correct, Cold, no interest, hurry up and finish, don't touch me, eyes closed, emotions of a dish towel, jump up I need a shower, keep him guessing, duty Sex.

*She's not marriage material...* If you knew that your future wife was a known cheater in a previous marriage, would you take on the risk? Well there you go... the OM basically has it in writing. While not marriage material, perfectly fine Tuesday afternoon Hotel-No-Tell companion.


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## Sephirox

Yes, as you mentioned both of you had affairs but the way in which you acted after was significantly differently from how she handled hers. Ultimately if she is not remorseful it would just be best to do a 180 and detach


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