# Wife Cutting me Off



## JohnSmithh (Feb 5, 2013)

About a month ago we were having sex in the bed. One of those mornings where the kids are still asleep and I start rubbing up on her. She's laying there and not even moving. Basically giving me the dead fish move. Sensing she's not into it I finish as fast as I can. Then she asked if I already finished and I said yes. She let out a very disgusted sigh and went to the bathroom.

Since then she won't even let me touch her. I try to initiate every day AND night and get told to leave her alone. 

This is extremely frustrating and infuriating.

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## Shiksa (Mar 2, 2012)

So what did you Do to get her in the mood and aroused? From your description, I would be as aroused as a dead fish.did you attend to her sexual needs?


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

My thoughts exactly...obviously her disgusted sigh seems to indicate her needs aren't getting met.


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## JohnSmithh (Feb 5, 2013)

I spend a few minutes stimulating her.

It's interesting that you brought this up though because her definition and mine are different when it comes to seduction. She thinks it needs to be a production. I don't. I blame all the shows she watched for playing these delusions of romance. At the end if the day I've been up since 0400 and arrive hone around 6pm. 

I believe she should be happy that I provide a safe and secure environment and at the end of the night we get naked and enjoy each other. I don't want to light candles and put rose petals in a bubble bath every night. It's not reasonable.

I have no problem giving her oral pleasure either. She never lets me even if I try.

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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

> She told me the other night she could go the rest of her life without sex but then said I never romance her. I've asked her what her idea of romance is and she says that I know but just refuse. I honestly have no idea. I tried cleaning the house, doing the dishes, making dinner, anything to help around the house. Nothing works. I'm now at the point where I don't want to do anything nice for her. I have a hard time even sleeping in the bed with her right now because I'm so unhappy. I'll probably sleep on the couch tonight.


You posted this over a year ago.

You have read MMSL.

Also read His Needs Her Needs. In fact you need to do this together. Do not take no for an answer on this one.

You need to have a connection with your wife. It is very hard to tell what she wants from your posts frankly. 

But I know that when you have a connection she would revel in you being more agressive and getting lost in her sexually. But this is the farthest thing away at the moment.

So you need to start with finding out each others needs. We could speculate on all sorts of reasons for her behavior but right now that is counter-productive.

While she probaby does need friends, I saw you trying to encourage her to go out to the bar. Bad freaking idea mister. 

You have to take control here. She may have just given up. 

What does she want in a marriage? Have you been deployed in the past? What went on then? Trying to gauge how whings got this way. 

But she has told you a very important clue. She wants romance. Cleaning up around around the house is NOT romance. You learned that from MMSL. I should be better at this as well. But I can tell you that my wife does nt want me to do house work. She enjoys that walk out onto that pier in SF as the sun sets on the bay and we kiss. Go figure. You have to involve her in your life. Right now it is the same POD every day and she is always on duty.

You need together time. Just you two. You need to date your wife. 

There may be bigger issues but I suggest you confront this head on and not let it continue to spiral. She has lost respect for you and sees you as pitiful now.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your marriage has been in this state for awhile now. Your wife sounds as if she is suffering depression. You have read books about the dynamics of desire, attraction, etc. and have gotten in better shape, quit smoking, cut down drinking, etc.

You have tried active listening. You would be willing to spend time on foreplay before sex, but you don't get many opportunities anymore and when you do her position of choice bored corpse.

She will not go to MC. IC has not been explored either.

If divorce, you'll a weekend dad and your wife might continue to microwave pizzas every lunch and wear pyjamas all day.

She no longer says she loves you. 

Does she seem like a different person from the woman you first married?

What was her childhood like?

Did her parent have loving relationship?

Does she have siblings? Does get along with them?

Is she close to anyone?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

JohnSmithh said:


> I spend a few minutes stimulating her.
> 
> It's interesting that you brought this up though because her definition and mine are different when it comes to seduction. She thinks it needs to be a production. I don't. I blame all the shows she watched for playing these delusions of romance. At the end if the day I've been up since 0400 and arrive hone around 6pm.
> 
> ...


Foreplay begins way before this. Maybe even yesterday. You amy be doing what you are doing just fine. But right now she needs that production. It is part of her needs. 

Do you guys ever go out? On a date? To dinner? A movie? Walk on the beach? Go for a weekend away?

From now on at Christmas do not let her buy all of her gifts.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JohnSmithh said:


> I spend a few minutes stimulating her.
> 
> It's interesting that you brought this up though because her definition and mine are different when it comes to seduction. She thinks it needs to be a production. I don't. I blame all the shows she watched for playing these delusions of romance. At the end if the day I've been up since 0400 and arrive hone around 6pm.
> 
> ...


What does your wife do during the day? Does she have a job? Or is she a SAHM? Does she take care of the children? the house?

What does she bring to the marriage?


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## JohnSmithh (Feb 5, 2013)

Tried to reply individually but using a new phone so I'll address the replies I've read do far.

Her parents divorced and it was ugly. Her father was and still is an alcoholic. There was domestic abuse in their relationship. He calls her when he is blasted out of his mind and cries. Her relationship with her sisters is just on Facebook.

We have zero alone time. In the last couple of years we've maybe been out a few times and each of those times we had to get back due it being a weekday.

I try the foreplay. I do. Then she accuses me of being a pervert of being disgusting. And all I do is come up behind her and kiss her neck, rub her butt. I send her some texts of a sexual nature and she just says "lol."

When the kids are asleep I try to initiate. I get brushed off because it's "her time" to finally relax. So I either try and wait up for her or go to sleep. So it ends up me awake at 11pm trying to orchestrate a sexual production when I have to be up at 0400. 

I've deployed 7 times since we've been married. Each time we always send sexual emails back and forth. The first couple deployments she would send me naked photos. Unfortunately that doesn't happen anymore.

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## JohnSmithh (Feb 5, 2013)

She is a SAHM. Two kids are in school and the other 2 yo stays at home with her. She has a hobby that she pursues most if the day.

This brings some friction to the relationship because basic household chores aren't getting done. Clothes pile up, dinner doesn't get made. So ya, there is more than just this sex thing.

So when I get home I'm pissed because I see loads of laundry, no dinner, and she's on the computer doing her hobby and in some pajama pants.

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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

how long has each deployment been?

How long have you been married?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

JohnSmithh said:


> Tried to reply individually but using a new phone so I'll address the replies I've read do far.
> 
> Her parents divorced and it was ugly. Her father was and still is an alcoholic. There was domestic abuse in their relationship. He calls her when he is blasted out of his mind and cries. Her relationship with her sisters is just on Facebook.
> 
> ...


Foreplay is more than the obvious. It involves setting the mood. It may just be subtle touches, comments and so on. 

Try full body no strings attached massages with no pressure associated with it for sex. The sex will happen but it may be tomorrow ... or next week. It is not a quid pro quo. Make love to your wife in sensual and romantic ways. Seduce her. Make her want it. Let the urgency be hers. This may take some serious time. I am not saying you do this forever. I am saying that romancing a woman is more than putting your tongue here or there. That kissing her neck just because is foreplay. Listening to her can be foreplay. Laughing together is foreplay.

Shower together. 

Be sensual with her if not overtly sexual. Touch her often. Show her you are thinking about her. Essentially what I am teling you is to run a Kino Escalation, but I am talking over long periods of time. It is a loving and sensual touch.

What is her hobby? If she has a hobby during the day then that is her time to relax. In the evening is your time together. 

To your knowledge has there been any infidelity on either of your parts? Include any possible EAs or long distance realtionships. The pressure for this is ALWAYS there when folks get deployed. People get lonely and many women feel abandoned by their spouse. Rational or not. I am suggesting that something died for her in this marriage and you need to reclaim it. 

How long were the deployments? What did she do while you were gone?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I can see why there is a problem in your marriage.

You and your wife have zero alone time. The two of you stopped dating and romancing years ago.

You have been deployed 7 times… how long were these deployments?

With the amount of time you have both been separated and then not spending alone time, it’s amazing that you two are even still married and talking to each other. I’m not surprised at all that she does not want sex with you.


JohnSmithh said:


> I believe she should be happy that I provide a safe and secure environment and at the end of the night we get naked and enjoy each other. I don't want to light candles and put rose petals in a bubble bath every night. It's not reasonable.


This becomes a catch-22. She most likely believes that you should be happy that she has kept the family together while you leave her alone to raise the children through many deployments. All the while with you not romancing her, not dating her, not show her that she is the love of your life.



JohnSmithh said:


> I spend a few minutes stimulating her.
> 
> It's interesting that you brought this up though because her definition and mine are different when it comes to seduction. She thinks it needs to be a production. I don't. I blame all the shows she watched for playing these delusions of romance. At the end if the day I've been up since 0400 and arrive hone around 6pm.
> 
> I have no problem giving her oral pleasure either. She never lets me even if I try.


Seduction/foreplay starts long before the two of you are in bed. It starts with things like the two of you spending time together, just the two of you. In order for most women to feel desire they need to feel a strong emotional bond to their partner. That takes time together. It takes the two of you talking, cuddling, and so forth. It’s not about peddles in the bath tub. It’s about an attitude and time together.


JohnSmithh said:


> I try the foreplay. I do. Then she accuses me of being a pervert of being disgusting. And all I do is come up behind her and kiss her neck, rub her butt. I send her some texts of a sexual nature and she just says "lol."


This is because she is not feeling it… when a person is not feeling the romance.. any advance feels like a turn off. What you need to remember is that she is a woman and is wired differently than you are. 


There is a saying that I think points this out. “A woman needs a reason to have sex. A man needs a place.” 

Your wife is telling you loud and clear what the issue is. She needs you to romance her… if you are not spending time alone with her doing date-like things, you are not romancing her.


JohnSmithh said:


> We have zero alone time. In the last couple of years we've maybe been out a few times and each of those times we had to get back due it being a weekday.


This is one of those situations where the two of you need to learn to walk together (metaphorically speaking) before you can run together. The two of you need to start dating again. You need to do little things that have nothing to do with sex.

For example get a baby sitter and take her on a picnic. 

In the evening after the kids are asleep the two of you have desert and tea (or whatever you two like) and just talk. Just learn to talk to each other and express what you are feeling. This is romance.

YOu need to seduce her and romance her … this is what she is talking about.

I highly suggest that the get the book “His Needs, Her Needs”. After you read it, ask her to read it. What we did was to read it to each other over those late night desert (or snack) breaks. Then we discussed it. It’s a great way to build intimacy and to figure out what the two of you need to do to rebuild your connection.

Now you might ask why I am putting all the work on you here. It’s because you are the one here complaining. If your wife were here complaining I’d be putting the work on her. 

You can change your marriage by changing how you interact with your wife.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JohnSmithh said:


> She is a SAHM. Two kids are in school and the other 2 yo stays at home with her. She has a hobby that she pursues most if the day.
> 
> This brings some friction to the relationship because basic household chores aren't getting done. Clothes pile up, dinner doesn't get made. So ya, there is more than just this sex thing.
> 
> So when I get home I'm pissed because I see loads of laundry, no dinner, and she's on the computer doing her hobby and in some pajama pants.


What is her hobby?

She sounds very depressed. Anyone who stays in PJ's and on the computer all day and ignores their responsibilities is seriously depressed.

So that adds more to the things that you need to tackle.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I can see why there is a problem in your marriage.
> 
> You and your wife have zero alone time. The two of you stopped dating and romancing years ago.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::iagree::smthumbup::iagree::smthumbup:

If you read nothing else ... keep rereading this post.

Seduction is a dance.


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## JohnSmithh (Feb 5, 2013)

We will hit ten years this winter.

Deployments were 4-5 months.

I will order that book tonight.

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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> Her parents divorced and it was ugly. Her father was and still is an alcoholic. There was domestic abuse in their relationship. He calls her when he is blasted out of his mind and cries. Her relationship with her sisters is just on Facebook.


Here is very important information. Your wife did not have normal childhood. When you write abuse, you mean he spanked/struck her. Did he dish out the same to her sisters?

How long do they talk on the phone? What does she tell you about the conversations?

You wife was not the eldest sister, was she?


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## JohnSmithh (Feb 5, 2013)

She is the oldest sister. The abuse was not directed against her. It was directed against her mother. She doesn't talk about it and I don't ask about it.

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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

also don't think that full blown romance is feasible every single time but can you not give her that every now and again? 

I never cut my husband offer sexually but for many years felt he didn't care what I wanted from sex. Every time we had sex it was exactly the same thing and I was dying inside at this.

Of course I accept responsibility for never telling him this and silently suffering for years as I rolled my eyes at the ceiling and felt sorry for myself.

Last week we were.without the kids overnight. I said hey, husband, you know what i want? Candles and Steely Dan and making out on the couch for like an hour. He did that for me. He would have never done that for me on his own. I had to have the courage to tell him this and he made it happen although that wasn't what he had in mind.

When I feel heard and cared for by my husband it makes a world of difference. The whole thing feels different.

I totally agree, too, that you guys need to get away from the kids. She needs to remember how to be your girlfriend, not only the mother of your children. Very important to a woman.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Below a various coping strategies that the children of alcoholics develop. Has your wife every had therapy to deal with her childhood?

Maybe she is taking things out on you because of unresolved issues?



> The Alcoholic
> - other family members revolve around this person
> - likely to be experiencing quite a bit of pain and shame even though they may not see it as the result of excessive alcohol or drug use
> - as things get worse, the alcoholic is faced with increasing feelings of shame, guilt, inadequacy, fear, and loneliness
> ...


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## Accipiter777 (Jul 22, 2011)

JohnSmithh said:


> I spend a few minutes stimulating her.
> 
> It's interesting that you brought this up though because her definition and mine are different when it comes to seduction. She thinks it needs to be a production. I don't. I blame all the shows she watched for playing these delusions of romance. At the end if the day I've been up since 0400 and arrive hone around 6pm.
> 
> ...


Gee... I cant figure out why she is a dead fish!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

JohnSmithh said:


> *I spend a few minutes stimulating her.*
> 
> I*t's interesting that you brought this up though because her definition and mine are different when it comes to seduction. She thinks it needs to be a production. I don't. I blame all the shows she watched for playing these delusions of romance.* At the end if the day I've been up since 0400 and arrive hone around 6pm.
> 
> ...


Well no wonder she pulls the dead fish on you, I did it to my second husband because he treated it like you describe here. So you spend a few minutes "stimulating" her? I can tell you that for ME personally, stimulating my genitals doesnt do a damn thing to get me turned on...I have to be turned on to enjoy it. I resented the hell out of my XH2 for just reaching down there to touch me without any regard to the rest of me. She does not feel loved or valued. Foreplay does not have to be a production, but is very important for most of us women to feel the attachment necessary to enjoy sex. Stop insulting her about it.


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## Dreald (Aug 30, 2012)

CantePe said:


> My thoughts exactly...obviously her disgusted sigh seems to indicate her needs aren't getting met.


For a little levity, you need to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnpx26zicw8


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

The good news is that there are many things that are working against intimacy and sex in your marriage. There is much you can do to change the dynamic.

There is a good chance that your wife will follow your lead. The above suggestions are excellent. It all amounts to really getting to know your wife as a person and as a woman. She has to do the same. 

If you think about it, the deployments and the busy schedules have interrupted your close connection. In a sense, you have to start your relationship over again. 

Get to know each other, talk about your day, have each other's back like you are on the same team. 

There are some things that your wife is doing that you cannot let go without addressing. The sighing after sex was contemptuous. 

Contempt is the most destructive attitude that can be directed at a spouse. Secondly, her expression of unhappiness is done in a disrespectful manner. 

This may seem to be primarily a problem with sex. I think it's mostly the quality of your relationship. I think you should put a temporary moratorium on sex and hit this disconnect hard. 

You may need more than books. But read them first so you get an overall idea. 

A couple of things to consider. They are unpleasant but - is it possible that she is cheating? EA or PA. Has she had a hx of CSA or sexual assault? 

You said that there were things that you don't know about her childhood. Is she reluctant to talk about it? 

What ever you do, don't kiss her azz or smother her or do things for sex. Be concerned and proactive but not desperate. 

I found a NYT article about marital success it may be informative for you and your wife. 

MARRIAGE - RESEARCH REVEALS INGREDIENTS OF HAPPINESS - NYTimes.com


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

JohnSmithh said:


> About a month ago we were having sex in the bed. One of those mornings where the kids are still asleep and I start rubbing up on her. She's laying there and not even moving. Basically giving me the dead fish move. Sensing she's not into it I finish as fast as I can. Then she asked if I already finished and I said yes. She let out a very disgusted sigh and went to the bathroom.
> 
> Since then she won't even let me touch her. I try to initiate every day AND night and get told to leave her alone.
> 
> ...



Take the 5 love languages quiz and then compare the results. You both might be surprised what each others main and secondary love languages really are....

Home | The 5 Love Languages®


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Maybe what you should do is make time for you and her. 
Make some plans where you can get someone to watch the kids and tell her to grab her hat and go out to dinner and a movie and enjoy yourselves. 

Second of all when you said that you just "wham bam" your wife and she's laying there like a dead fish and you continue knowing she's getting nothing out of it except feeling used, then you should know that your doing something wrong.

Sorry friend, I can't feel sorry for you. Your approach to intimacy ain't real hot. You need to change your habits.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Doesn't sound like he wham banged her. I also think that it's difficult to accept that a partner is actually just laying there. It's a blow after the act is over, it's probably unimaginable during the act. 

It's not clear that she has gotten nothing out of their sex life up until this session. Her non-participation led to her lack of enjoyment in the session John describes. I'm not sure anything he did would have made a difference. 

I say this because it's important that he does not assume he is faulty. The relationship is whacked. With all they have had to deal with, it would be difficult not to go off the rails without help. 

The deployments alone are hard on him and the relationship. Thanks for serving our Country. I really hope that your future with your family will be happy and rewarding.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Doesn't sound like he wham banged her. I also think that it's difficult to accept that a partner is actually just laying there. It's a blow after the act is over, it's probably unimaginable during the act.
> 
> It's not clear that she has gotten nothing out of their sex life up until this session. Her non-participation led to her lack of enjoyment in the session John describes. I'm not sure anything he did would have made a difference.
> 
> ...


Agree with this perspective.

One thing I saw is how hard the OP works. When not deployed (I am assuming he is military), he gets up at 4 a.m. and gets home at 6 p.m. I've known two veterans and their stories corroborate this. It seems if you are in a high-demand occupation, working 12 hours shifts 5-6 days a week, for extended periods, is not uncommon.

This is crucial, because the OP's wife doesn't seem cut out for this. If she needs more "them" time, she needs to pretty much run the house alone. Yet, she can't manage to even do the bare essentials (cooking dinner and getting dressed for the day).

When he is deployed, she needs to do it all alone. The family situation demands he sacrifice more and work harder than most, for modest pay. The Army says a Specialist (the highest non-command grade), 6 years experience gets base pay of $29k annually plus $13k in housing allowance (median - depends on location). So, that's about $800 a week or $13.50 an hour.

So then she also needs to work harder and sacrifice more than most. The OP is extremely busy - if he devotes more time to romance, he ignores something else - something else she will have to manage. Some people have said she seems depressed. That sounds somewhat like being worn out by life. You keep working hard with no end in sight for long periods of time, and sometimes people just say "screw it - why bother".

Bottom line is the OP's wife is going to have to work much harder for an extended period of time for the marriage to improve. For now, she needs to do more around the home to leave the OP free to meet her needs. Later, she may have to take a job outside the home so he can leave the military, develop some skills, and get a more lucrative job.

The OP needs to have an honest conversation with his wife, assess her needs, and suggest ways she can make that possible. My hunch is that part of this is going to relate somehow to low earnings / financial issues, and that might not be anything he can change (at least not for some time).


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Can you take her out to a sports event?

Take her rock climbing?

Go to a shooting range?

Go for a hike in the wilderness?

Take a cooking course together?

She has spent long periods of time without you. Being without sex is nothing new. She may be resentful of those deployments.


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## MisterGadget (Feb 13, 2014)

This sounds very similar and so does the answers.

Unfortunately ive no solution for you.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I see a "cycle" going on here....

She's depressed, thus house is undone
You get pissed, triggers her past
You want sex, she only saw the anger prior to this
She's hoping you can erase the anger you walked in the door with by the production of foreplay and when it doesn't happen
She's depressed.... the house stays undone
you get pissed.
she's watching that anger
no sex
depression.... etc... see it?

because of the chronic anger, she is "escaping" with her hobby... she is officially "checked out" and if she had her own resources would probably already be gone. The justification for the anger is important to address at some point, but right now the fact that it is chronically present is the bigger issue. That pattern has to be broken first...

Are you wanting your wife back that you fell in love with?


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

To the OP, you are receiving all this well intended advice to basically walk on egg shells around your wife, and kiss her a$$. How pathetic. None of this address the real problem here:  your wife's lousy attitude. NONE of the advice you've been given will improver your wife's attitude in a long term sustainable way. You should think about separating from her but stay in your child's lives no less. Your wife sounds like a selfish nasty snatch. I feel sorry for you because you're in a no win situation.


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