# Adultery and Complacency



## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

Hey, Folks.
What the heck goes on with this woman messing around on the man. We have accepted... though not me, that it has been going on. And further more, I do not want to see this...this behavior. Have we no morals these days. And our children, what goes on with.... Them!!!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Ben Connedfussed said:


> Hey, Folks.
> What the heck goes on with this woman messing around on the man. We have accepted... though not me, that it has been going on. And further more, I do not want to see this...this behavior. Have we no morals these days. And our children, what goes on with.... Them!!!


It's the most natural thing in the world. Female hypergamy unleashed by the pill and politics.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Ask Oprah.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveMouse (Apr 22, 2012)

You see, that's why in the bible they stoned the woman to death, it's that horrible, it taught the children it was wrong, they thought twice before doing it, and if she did cheat...............the man wasn't stuck w/ all her crap, she was just....GONE! 
Even before, here in America, if a woman cheated she wasn't entitled to crap! Throw her lieing, cheating axx out in the cold and she wouldn't get the kids!! Laws now favor women and nobody cares if she was a cheater or not.
The worse punnishment tho, is she has to look herself in the mirror every single day and she can't STONE herself. LMAO
Mouse


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> It's the most natural thing in the world. Female hypergamy unleashed by the pill and politics.


Agreed. It is about time we rejected these old notions that women are nobler, less likely to cheat. And, the notion that women cheat for reasons other than sex, like emotional connection etc is also BS , IMO.
Women have fierce sex drives and chase orgasms with men they, mistakenly, consider more alpha.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well it seems to me that men have been messing around since the dawn of time... and who exactly do you think they have been messing around with all these thousands of years... yep... women.

Nothing new under sun.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Well it seems to me that men have been messing around since the dawn of time... and who exactly do you think they have been messing around with all these thousands of years... yep... women.
> 
> Nothing new under sun.


True. Women and men have been cheating for a long time. But, I think it is more prevalent, now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LoveMouse said:


> You see, that's why in the bible they stoned the woman to death, it's that horrible, it taught the children it was wrong, they thought twice before doing it, and if she did cheat...............the man wasn't stuck w/ all her crap, she was just....GONE!


In the OT they stoned both men and women for cheating. They law applied regardless of gender. 



LoveMouse said:


> Even before, here in America, if a woman cheated she wasn't entitled to crap! Throw her lieing, cheating axx out in the cold and she wouldn't get the kids!! Laws now favor women and nobody cares if she was a cheater or not.


Yea but in the past the cheating husbands got away with in with impunity. Are you suggesting that it was a good thing that married women were treated harshly for cheating but married men hardly faced any consequences for cheating?
I prefer a world in which there is equal treatment for such things. It’s equally wrong for either spouse to cheat.


LoveMouse said:


> The worse punnishment tho, is she has to look herself in the mirror every single day and she can't STONE herself. LMAO
> Mouse


Same goes for cheating husbands of course.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> True. Women and men have been cheating for a long time. But, I think it is more prevalent, now.


I do think it's more prevalent now too. But I think it's more prevalent for both men and women. Our society is just a lot more promiscuous now..

Men used to cheat more with single women. Married women faced some pretty harsh consequences for cheating that men did not face often. So in past generations married women did not cheat as much.

But now married women cheat at almost the same rate as married men do. For some reason the OP seems to think that it’s worse for a woman to cheat than for a man to cheat. That makes no sense.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

No argument from me. Members of both genders that cheat deserve equal contempt.
We betrayeds are victims regardless of gender and need to stick together and support each other.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

I'm with Liam


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm sick to read everyday about cheating stories. Especially these women who open their legs to the OM then come home and start crying pretending they feel guilty.
I seriously feel like vomiting!!!
I have always thought men are more likely to cheat but I'm realizing women are just as likely as men.

The thing is that here on TAM most members seem think that every couple should try and go through MC and R and it has kind of become acceptable.
I hope this mentality doesn't become acceptable to me once my future partner/husband cheats on me.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Well it seems to me that men have been messing around since the dawn of time... and who exactly do you think they have been messing around with all these thousands of years... yep... women.
> 
> Nothing new under sun.


The new thing might be that (its calimed) that infidelity has tripled since 1997. Coinciding with home computers and cellphones?


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Could be that just discovery rate has tripled. Discovering an affair was never so easy as it is now.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

snap said:


> Could be that just discovery rate has tripled. Discovering an affair was never so easy as it is now.


I agree. I think people have been cheating for a long time at the same rate. NOw, there is an electronic trail that makes it easier to find things out or to prove them.

For example, when I got the anonymous letter about my husband cheating. I checked his phone. I initially did not find a woman's number because it was listed under his office in texas. I thought it was a business contact, In fact she called once from that number and he used that to explain why she called on saturday. It was business. 

I also agree that cheating is abuse and needs to be punished. Both men and women.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

here we go again


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

snap said:


> Could be that just discovery rate has tripled. Discovering an affair was never so easy as it is now.


It is bad, another statistic says only 1 in 5 affairs are discovered. Ouch, I wish I could find out if that includes ONSs.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> In the OT they stoned both men and women for cheating. They law applied regardless of gender.


As for the OT, "cheating" is not a capital offense, but adultery. Biblical adultery, and the law in some countries and states still today, is defined in Exodus as a married woman having coitus with any man other than her husband. It's the marital state of the woman that makes it adultery. Both the adulteress and the adulterer were executed for the simple reason that they attempted to defraud the wronged BH by adulterating his lineage with false heirs.


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## JustMe321 (May 9, 2012)

snap said:


> Could be that just discovery rate has tripled. Discovering an affair was never so easy as it is now.


Agreed. I would have never known my H cheated if I hadn't discovered years old chat logs.


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Agreed. It is about time we rejected these old notions that women are nobler, less likely to cheat. And, the notion that women cheat for reasons other than sex, like emotional connection etc is also BS , IMO.
> Women have fierce sex drives and chase orgasms with men they, mistakenly, consider more alpha.


This is agreed upon. Alpha sexually and allow the intellects to take care of the off-springs. And reap the financial outcomes. (her)


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

Ben Connedfussed said:


> This is agreed upon. Alpha sexually and allow the intellects to take care of the off-springs. And reap the financial outcomes. (her)


Women cheat, as do men. The statics grow higher every year. The statistics over a ten (10) year period are ever grimmer to view and perceive. Fifty years ago, they would not have... But fifty years ago...James had a gun !!!!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> Oh this is a common theme here. The double standard is alive and well for some men. Men still cheat a he!! of a lot more than women do, but you dare not confuse anyone with facts. Men still get slapped on the back more often too, and told what studs they are by their buddies; while the woman's friends are more likely to either rat on her or drop her. The pill has upped the rate of cheating among women. That is sad, two wrongs never will make a right.


You are right. Women have become just as bad as men. Today women high five each other as far as how many men they banged behind their husbands backs. Sad, isn't it?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> That is not really what I said. The rate of cheating among women has not caught up with male cheating ( getting close though in the under 40 set). Women are still more stigmatized by others and do not receive the sympathy and aid from others for their "rocky " marriages and their decision to cheat that men do. It is still assumed that if the man cheats he isn't getting what he needs at home. If the woman cheats she is just a bit**. I heard a news, woman of all people, say the exact same thing on a local news broadcast the other day( FOX, don't ya love them?). The statement went unchallenged and no one contradicted her or appeared to think that her statement was inaccurate or sexist. Some women may high five each other, but generally society is less approving of female infidelity than it is for male unfaithfulness. The double standard is still with us. This is not something in which I would have ever wanted parody for women but that will come I am sure. Considering the damage done, Its like finding out that leprosy is pacing TB and will soon be as common.


If more men are cheating than women, who do you figure they are cheating with? It takes two. Single people going with a married person is also cheating.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Double standard (where it does exist) has little to do with stats of cheating. I've seen unfaithful people of both genders in real life, can't say there is really any difference in occurrence rates. Yes, it's not proper statistics, but there is nothing so far to push me to conclusion that something is wrong with one particular gender.


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## Baffled01 (Mar 14, 2012)

As has been pointed out before in the this forum, men tend to be more opportunistic cheaters: a quick fling with a hooker, a one night stand. Women tend to get more emotionally involved which leads to affairs; in my opinion a worse infraction because of the continued lies and deception it involves.

I wholeheartedly agree that women have gone from being overly punished for the sin of adultery, to not being punished at all. Our society is like a pendulum that swings wildly from one extreme to another. Our courts need to reevaluate adultery and the role it plays in the destruction of marriages and families especially when it comes to women committing adultery. I know here in Georgia, a woman can be cheating on her husband with an entire basketball team and still end up with custody of the kids and a generous child-support payment. I mean with laws like that, if you're a woman--why not cheat. 

Hubby not making you happy, find a lover. If you get caught, who cares. Courts will side with you. Just get divorced.

The destruction of the family; a sign of a rapidly decaying society.


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

If adultery were a crime again I think the rate would go down. If you don't want to be with your spouse, then do the right thing and file for divorce and get it done before you hop in the sack with someone else. The problem as I see it is that we live in an instant gratification society. When your current situation doesn't meet your right here, right now needs, you just throw your current situation away and get a new one. That is why marriage 2.0 does not make sense and why I will not marry again. Not worth it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Married in VA said:


> If adultery were a crime again I think the rate would go down. If you don't want to be with your spouse, then do the right thing and file for divorce and get it done before you hop in the sack with someone else. The problem as I see it is that we live in an instant gratification society. When your current situation doesn't meet your right here, right now needs, you just throw your current situation away and get a new one. That is why marriage 2.0 does not make sense and why I will not marry again. Not worth it.


This is so true. I will likely never marry again either. I am too frightened of being fooled again. I had no clue that my husband was cheating or addicted to porn and strip clubs. 

I always thought he was honest to a fault and here he was looking me in the eye, smiling and lying to me. How can I ever trust myself again to choose a non cheater type

I don't understand why any of the cheaters marry. 

No one has to marry today. It's okay to be single. Heck you can even have kids out of wedlock with a surrogate and it's okay or single people can adopt now. 

WTF


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

chapparal said:


> If more men are cheating than women, who do you figure they are cheating with? It takes two. Single people going with a married person is also cheating.


They are cheating with single women. Not all cheating is between married people. She isn't cheating on a spouse if she doesn't have one. She may not even know that Mr morals is married. So many single women are snookered by married cheaters. I lost count of all the MM who made passes at me when I was single


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> So many single women are snookered by married cheaters. I lost count of all the MM who made passes at me when I was single


Yeah? Well I lost count of all the married women who made passes at me when I was single.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah? Well I lost count of all the married women who made passes at me when I was single.


Look I'm not arguing with you, I am siting stats, period. You can believe whatever gets you through the night. Males still cheat more than females, but females are unfortunately catching up. Males have been out cheating females for eons. What's the big news here? Women have always had more to lose if they get caught cheating. The pill changed some of that, but a women is still more likely than a male to be dumped by her spouse if she is unfaithful, because of the survival of the double standard. She is more likely to be fired if an A happens in the work environment than her male AP etc. Whoever is cheating it sucks. When I asked my H why, he said" because I am a man" blah blah blah. Something about Tony Soprano having a mistress and that that's what "men do" etc.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> It's the most natural thing in the world. Female hypergamy unleashed by the pill and politics.


Agreed. But, the fact that it comes naturally, does not make it a good thing for our culture.
Just like it is natural to just drop ones drawers and take a crap whenever the urge strikes. It is bad for our culture.


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## jen1020 (Dec 18, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Agreed. But, the fact that it comes naturally, does not make it a good thing for our culture.
> Just like it is natural to just drop ones drawers and take a crap whenever the urge strikes. It is bad for our culture.


Yes but you have to take a crap, you don't have to go out there and screw someone else, or have an emotional affair. It is a choice.

In a way I wish we still had the morals back in the middle of the last century but then they came at a cost as well, everyone pretending to be happy in their marriages, when they weren't. 

The freedom of choice that we have now is both a blessing and a curse.

Jen


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

jen1020 said:


> In a way I wish we still had the morals back in the middle of the last century but then they came at a cost as well, everyone pretending to be happy in their marriages, when they weren't.
> 
> The freedom of choice that we have now is both a blessing and a curse.
> 
> Jen



There was plenty of cheating from many of the 'morality' advocates from that time period.


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## jen1020 (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm not saying there wasn't any cheating but I imagine not as much as today because of the way society viewed it - especially with regards to women.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

We live in tabloid times where there is a profit to be made from knowing what goes on in the private lives of public figures so there is plenty of surveillance on these people. Contrast that with that time period where the private lives of public figures were treated with more respect and when it was discovered that they were cheating on their wives, they usually did not publish it because unlike now, editors and public figures mingled and were sometimes friends with one another so there was a reluctance to out them.

The perception of being more moral may simply be an illusion.


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## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> Look I'm not arguing with you, I am siting stats, period. You can believe whatever gets you through the night. Males still cheat more than females, but females are unfortunately catching up. Males have been out cheating females for eons. What's the big news here? Women have always had more to lose if they get caught cheating. The pill changed some of that, but a women is still more likely than a male to be dumped by her spouse if she is unfaithful, because of the survival of the double standard. She is more likely to be fired if an A happens in the work environment than her male AP etc. Whoever is cheating it sucks. When I asked my H why, he said" because I am a man" blah blah blah. Something about Tony Soprano having a mistress and that that's what "men do" etc.


I agree the double standard still exists and is very powerful. People talk a lot about women having changed but they seem to forget that the majority of men haven't changed that much. 

What I mean is, the number of females cheating has indeed increased a LOT, but the number of men cheating hasn't lowered. So we have lots of men throwing stones at women's roofs when theirs is made out of glass. 

Men talk about how the pill gave women the opportunity to cheat a lot more, but they forget the fact that ever since Viagra was discovered A LOT of older men began to cheat a lot more. 

Some men used Viagra to enhance their marriages while many others used this newfound "power" to chase younger women, which also (like the pill) contributed to the destruction of many families.

Women still get a lot of heat for cheating and many men (not all) still get high fives and slapped on he back for being studs. 
It happened to me years ago. I friend of my bf lied to him that I tried to cheat on him and he broked up with me and humiliated me for six months (before his friend confessed the lie). 

I made the very bad choice to forgive him and less the four months later I found out he cheated on me with two girls. When I confronted him what he said blew me away (given the severity of his treatment towards me when he thought I had cheated on him) "I am a man, when they came on to me I HAD to act like a man!". 

I am not here saying women should not have to face the consequences for their actions or that they are less guilty of cheating when it happens. But the double standard "forgive him" but "drop the w****" still exists indeed.


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Agreed. It is about time we rejected these old notions that women are nobler, less likely to cheat. And, the notion that women cheat for reasons other than sex, like emotional connection etc is also BS , IMO.
> Women have fierce sex drives and chase orgasms with men they, mistakenly, consider more alpha.


I believe this same statement. Spouses cheat on their partners for better sex, the thrill of the moment, the chase, and if all three apply, so much the better. From where I stand, if a 25 year old knock-out came on to me, I would say hell no! I still love my wife, and am 'still in love' with her.


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I do think it's more prevalent now too. But I think it's more prevalent for both men and women. Our society is just a lot more promiscuous now..
> 
> Men used to cheat more with single women. Married women faced some pretty harsh consequences for cheating that men did not face often. So in past generations married women did not cheat as much.
> 
> But now married women cheat at almost the same rate as married men do. For some reason the OP seems to think that it’s worse for a woman to cheat than for a man to cheat. That makes no sense.


It is equally wrong in my eyes. A cheater is a cheater, nonspecific to the sex. Technology has made it far easier to have affairs there days and with less likelyhood of being discovered. By the way, I used 'woman' in my question, however this applies equally to men, also!

If I knew for fact I could cheat and get away with it, no risk of being caught, I STILL REMAIN IN MY STEAD... I WOULD NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

snap said:


> Could be that just discovery rate has tripled. Discovering an affair was never so easy as it is now.


It is easier to discover, true, if you do your homework and not have been stupid like me! Education is needed! I feel so stupid that I did not do my homework, and opened my big mouth. I may never know now! That is hurting me more so now. It is like being in a hellish nightmare!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> They are cheating with single women. Not all cheating is between married people. She isn't cheating on a spouse if she doesn't have one. She may not even know that Mr morals is married. So many single women are snookered by married cheaters. I lost count of all the MM who made passes at me when I was single


We just disagree on the definition. As far as I'm concerned, single woman banging a married man is commiting adultery. Many women go out on GNO's and hide the fact that they are married. Many don't even try to hide it.

I can also say that over many years women have become so much more agressive its scary.


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> They are cheating with single women. Not all cheating is between married people. She isn't cheating on a spouse if she doesn't have one. She may not even know that Mr morals is married. So many single women are snookered by married cheaters. I lost count of all the MM who made passes at me when I was single


True, I have noticed many married spouses never wear their bands. I know of one man who would slip his band of, and wear his grad ring to cover the sign. But for the most part, I wonder why men do not wear the ring. I have noticed most women do wear that band.


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

chapparal said:


> We just disagree on the definition. As far as I'm concerned, single woman banging a married man is commiting adultery. Many women go out on GNO's and hide the fact that they are married. Many don't even try to hide it.
> 
> I can also say that over many years women have become so much more agressive its scary.


You are so correct Chapparal. If I am single and lay with a married woman, I commit the adultery as well. And vice versus... A single woman laying in bed with a married man is sleeping in a defiled bed, also guilty of this act... adultery!


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## Kathrynthegreat (Apr 23, 2012)

Anybody who thinks men cheat less now than they used to hasn't been reading much history. The only real new thing is that now they're cheating with women in their own socioeconomic level and it's consensual. And back then it wasn't really considered "cheating."


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Baffled01 said:


> As has been pointed out before in the this forum, men tend to be more opportunistic cheaters: a quick fling with a hooker, a one night stand. Women tend to get more emotionally involved which leads to affairs; in my opinion a worse infraction because of the continued lies and deception it involves.
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree that women have gone from being overly punished for the sin of adultery, to not being punished at all. Our society is like a pendulum that swings wildly from one extreme to another. Our courts need to reevaluate adultery and the role it plays in the destruction of marriages and families especially when it comes to women committing adultery. I know here in Georgia, a woman can be cheating on her husband with an entire basketball team and still end up with custody of the kids and a generous child-support payment. I mean with laws like that, if you're a woman--why not cheat.
> 
> ...


Baffled:

It is not true that men cheat only for sex. Yes they are more opportunistic because it is far easier for a woman to get easy sex from almost any guy, if she is attractive. But even an attractive male has a less opportunity for easy sex than a woman. 

Still, studies are now showing that men cheat for the emotional reward of having some google eyed young thing or some phony young thing respect and admire them and want sex with them.

In a long term marriage people are and should be equals. A young girl admires a 50ish successful male. Heck some even target them because they have more money to spend on them.

My cheater husband's affair, based on the email threads that were forwarded to me were very emotional. 

Yes, the OW was the aggressor and early on begged him to have sex with her etc....but he was interested and sharing intimate details of our life with her.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Agreed. But, the fact that it comes naturally, does not make it a good thing for our culture.
> Just like it is natural to just drop ones drawers and take a crap whenever the urge strikes. It is bad for our culture.


We're heading for polygyny, either recognized or de facto (soft harems). Very, very good for the guys who can pull the women. Very, very bad for the 80% who really can't. And that's going to be very, very bad for society.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

chapparal said:


> We just disagree on the definition. As far as I'm concerned, single woman banging a married man is commiting adultery.


This is currently the common idea in the English speaking world, and the legal definition in most US states; the change in attitude beginning in Victorian times and the legal changes in most states after woman suffrage. It is not the traditional or Biblical definition, though. The reason is that since there is no way for a man to adulterate a woman's lineage, it can't be adultery. That's why "adultery", traditionally a specific physical act involving a married woman, has largely been replaced with the amorphous elastic terms "infidelity", "affair", etc.



chapparal said:


> I can also say that over many years women have become so much more agressive its scary.


The smaller your waistline, the more aggressive they get.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Baffled:
> 
> It is not true that men cheat only for sex. Yes they are more opportunistic because it is far easier for a woman to get easy sex from almost any guy, if she is attractive. But even an attractive male has a less opportunity for easy sex than a woman.
> 
> Still, studies are now showing that men cheat for the emotional reward of having some google eyed young thing or some phony young thing respect and admire them and want sex with them.


Those studies may apply to very successful married men but I doubt they apply to regular Joes who are earning $40K or below. They are more likely to engage in a fling for the sex than for the emotional benefit. The financial impact of a divorce hits them harder than it does wealthier men.

Also it is not true that most men cheat with young and pretty women. If you've read the countless infidelity stories, the OW is often far from being a beauty queen and when compared next to the BW, you have people doing a :scratchhead: or a :wtf:



> In a long term marriage people are and should be equals. A young girl admires a 50ish successful male. Heck some even target them because they have more money to spend on them.


Not all men are 50ish and successful. If a young woman is after a successful married man in his 50's there is more of an element of financial attraction than a sexual one. So I would change the "some" to "the majority".


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## jen1020 (Dec 18, 2011)

Kathrynthegreat said:


> Anybody who thinks men cheat less now than they used to hasn't been reading much history. The only real new thing is that now they're cheating with women in their own socioeconomic level and it's consensual. And back then it wasn't really considered "cheating."


I guess you must be talking about my posts.

You are right, all I can remember about my history lessons is 1066, The Vikings and the Victorian era.

Perhaps if my teacher had been about people having various illicit affairs I may have taken more notice!

My perception of the history of infidelity comes from life experience and talking to my piers who speak about the past, which I agree isn't much evidence to go on. 

I still believe we are more promiscuous now though, illusion or not.

Jen


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## Kathrynthegreat (Apr 23, 2012)

jen1020 said:


> I guess you must be talking about my posts.
> 
> You are right, all I can remember about my history lessons is 1066, The Vikings and the Victorian era.
> 
> ...


Yeah, there were several centuries in Western culture where marital vows of fidelity were only thought to apply to women. Men were basically free to do whatever they wished with the slaves, the servant girls, the serfs, camp followers, and any other women who couldn't fight them off. Rape was considered a soldier's right and payment for a battle well-fought. Basically the only women off-limits to any man were nuns and the wives of men more powerful than himself.


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## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

Baffled01 said:


> As has been pointed out before in the this forum, men tend to be more opportunistic cheaters: a quick fling with a hooker, a one night stand. Women tend to get more emotionally involved which leads to affairs; in my opinion a worse infraction because of the continued lies and deception it involves.


I kind of agree with you. Mostly men cheat for the thrill of sex, but that is not set in stone. 

The perception society creates that men are ONLY sexual and women are ONLY emotional is very limited. Like when people say that women can't separate sex from love. If that is true then how come women (far more than man) used sex as weapon and as currency(spelling?) at all eras of human history? Trust me, as a woman, I can tell you that women can and DO separate love from sex very well when they find it that it suits them. 

Now a days more and more women are cheating for the thrill of casual sex. We have to remember that society (at all times, past and present) held women's sexuality back while giving men total freedom to behave as they pleased as far as sex was concerned. 

We were told we had to be virgins when we got married and that was the only honorable choice for us, while men could have sex with hundreds of women before they got married. 

The truth is that given the chance women in the past also would have liked to have more experiences more partners. That's what is happening in today's world. All it took was for society to be more open about what is acceptable for women as far as sex, and look at the way women are behaving now, at times worse than men. 

Regardless of whether the cheating happens only for sex or for something a lot deeper, I still believe cheating is cheating. I can see why most people would find easier to forgive a ONS with no feelings in the mix rather than sex plus emotion. 

But in my eyes a ONS just for sex only also causes a he** of a lot of pain. That why I sort reject the idea that male infidelity is less damaging the female. Every case is unique, and it's not up to the cheater (male or female) to tell you what and how to feel about what they did.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

What amazes me is the number of "my wife cheated on me" posts here on TAM. It would make you tend to think that female infidelity is on the rise. However, as another TAM poster pointed out, women tend to have support in the form of friends where men would tend toward the anonymity of the Internet. I sure wouldn't go crying to me buddies if my wife cheated on me. I'd ... come here to TAM.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

*Love, Sex and the Changing Landscape of Infidelity*

_Helen E. Fisher, research professor of anthropology at Rutgers and the author of several books on the biological and evolutionary basis of love and sex. 

In younger couples, the increasing availability of pornography on the Internet, which has been shown to affect sexual attitudes and perceptions of “normal” behavior, may be playing a role in rising infidelity. 

But it is the apparent change in women’s fidelity that has sparked the most interest among relationship researchers. *It is not entirely clear if the historical gap between men and women is real or if women have just been more likely to lie about it. 

“Is it that men are bragging about it and women are lying to everybody including themselves?” Dr. Fisher asked. “Men want to think women don’t cheat, and women want men to think they don’t cheat, and therefore the sexes have been playing a little psychological game with each other.”*_


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## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> *Love, Sex and the Changing Landscape of Infidelity*
> 
> _Helen E. Fisher, research professor of anthropology at Rutgers and the author of several books on the biological and evolutionary basis of love and sex.
> 
> ...


I've got to say I agree with this to a certain degree. Many men want to believe that they are ALL a woman could possible want, hence many men seem to believe that women don't fantasize about other men, that they don't check other men out, that they don't get a little bored with having sex with the same man over and over, that they don't want variety. 

It amazes that a lot of guys truly believe that only men have those desires. 

It is my personal believe that if society had never held women's sexuality back, today all those stereotypes about men and sex (such as men are pigs and dogs, EVERY men cheats and so on) wouldn't really exist, or at least they would not be as strong as they are. Because society would have seen that females are just as likely to exhibit these same behaviours. 

Just look at the manner in which young women are behaving now a days. They are doing all the things that in the past were perceived as male behaviour only.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

NatashaYurino said:


> It is my personal believe that if society had never held women's sexuality back, today all those stereotypes about men and sex (such as men are pigs and dogs, EVERY men cheats and so on) wouldn't really exist, or at least they would not be as strong as they are. Because society would have seen that females are just as likely to exhibit these same behaviours.


Those stereotypes were manufactured by the women who came out of the 19th C northeastern Christian revival called "the Second Great Awakening." They firmly believed that women were morally superior to men, which was the opposite of the previous belief system. The beliefs usually misapplied to the Puritans, although they too had some illusions (marriage being an equal partnership for instance), originated with these women, along with the temperance movement, prostitution prohibition, the US abolitionist movement, woman suffrage. Strangely, many of these same women also promoted that women should be freer to have outside relationships while their husbands supported them.


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## jen1020 (Dec 18, 2011)

Kathrynthegreat said:


> Yeah, there were several centuries in Western culture where marital vows of fidelity were only thought to apply to women. Men were basically free to do whatever they wished with the slaves, the servant girls, the serfs, camp followers, and any other women who couldn't fight them off. Rape was considered a soldier's right and payment for a battle well-fought. Basically the only women off-limits to any man were nuns and the wives of men more powerful than himself.


Yes I agree with this, ofcourse that women were treated like second class citizens with regards to rights in marriage. Thank goodness for for the suffragettes.

I was thinking about men being more promiscuous in the past, rather than women.

Jen


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## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

Kathrynthegreat said:


> Yeah, there were several centuries in Western culture where marital vows of fidelity were only thought to apply to women. Men were basically free to do whatever they wished with the slaves, the servant girls, the serfs, camp followers, and any other women who couldn't fight them off. Rape was considered a soldier's right and payment for a battle well-fought. Basically the only women off-limits to any man were nuns and the wives of men more powerful than himself.


I believe even in today's world MANY men still believe and behave as if fidelity is something only they deserve. Of course the guys here in CWI may not be part of this group, but trust me they are out there. 

They believe that as long as the man doens't let his infidelity disturb the family life, his wife should just let it go and learn to accept that it is only sex. 

They claim that for men it is the natural way they are wired. Not so long ago there was a documentary on Discovery Channel that talked about the nature of human sexuality and both males and females reseachers let it be pretty clear that the urge to seek more than one partner is also wired in the female nature. 

They explained that each gender does it for different reasons and purposes, but they both do. So we can see that is not just men who can claim they were overcome by their nature. 

PS.:Keep in mind I am NOT saying it's right for women to cheat. Just meant to pass the info forward.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> Those studies may apply to very successful married men but I doubt they apply to regular Joes who are earning $40K or below. They are more likely to engage in a fling for the sex than for the emotional benefit. The financial impact of a divorce hits them harder than it does wealthier men.
> 
> Also it is not true that most men cheat with young and pretty women. If you've read the countless infidelity stories, the OW is often far from being a beauty queen and when compared next to the BW, you have people doing a :scratchhead: or a :wtf:
> 
> ...


I think you have very valid points here.

My cheater husband's OW is not as attractive as I am although she is younger. She is a phony though who uses sexuality and compliments to hook men. She targets older men because she knows they often have more free time and will spend money on her. 

My husband only within the last five years starting earning good money. Prior to that he earned in the high 30s and low 40s. He was able to advance his career because I was cautious with our spending and he had money to invest to expand the business. 

My cheater husband however is still Beta to her own husband. I worked in the advertising industry and I know the type of person that has good looks of mass appeal with their look. She does not. 

The OW has maids and cooks. I did not. Her husband pays for expensive vacations and she visits the hair salon weekly to have her roots dyed and her hair conditioned. Her home is huge and far nicer than mine.

She is high maintenance. 

She was interested in my husbands type, according to emails. She is disgusted by her husband. Some woman will trade up to a man they are only physically attracted to.

In true stalker fashion she has a type she is physically attracted to and my husband fits. 

She stalked prior affair partner who looked like him according to the emails. He had to move out of state and ended up divorced 

She stalked me before she began seeing my husband. She is still stalking me.


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

There is a question with this thread also... We know women and men cheat for a vast amount of different reasons. Question... Is it true that 'we can not help who we fall in love with?' If so, that this is true, some complacency for the lovers. But there is in no way any complacency with cheaters. I say, "You can choose who you hurt!" and get me if I am wrong with the old cliche but..."We do not hurt the one we love!"


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Though I despise OM no end, I find OW particularly despicable. OM seldom want anything other than a sexual fling with another man's wife, but the OW wants to completely replace the husband's wife and family in his life.


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

morituri said:


> Though I despise OM no end, I find OW particularly despicable. OM seldom want anything other than a sexual fling with another man's wife, but the OW wants to completely replace the husband's wife and family in his life.


This again... is true. Too much goes on in these circumstances. A former husband pulled a gun on me... Threatened by my presence. I would never do that to another unless I caught them. But just leave!


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## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

Ben Connedfussed said:


> There is a question with this thread also... We know women and men cheat for a vast amount of different reasons. Question... Is it true that 'we can not help who we fall in love with?' If so, that this is true, some complacency for the lovers. But there is in no way any complacency with cheaters. I say, "You can choose who you hurt!" and get me if I am wrong with the old cliche but..."We do not hurt the one we love!"


Well I see what you mean. No I don't believe we choose who we fall for. I myself have fallen in love with a friend's bf, I didn't choose it but it happened. So up until this moment,we have done nothing wrong. The question is how we are going to proceed in this situation. I didn't no say a word to my friend's bf, I kept my feelings to myself and tried to meet new people so I could let go of how I felt. 

Personally I believe it's how we act on those feelings which determines if are doing something wrong or not. In the cases where the OM/OW were also left in the dark as to whether the other person was married or not, they are somewhat less guilty, but if the were aware of the other person's marriage and still went for it, then IMO they are just as guilty as the married man/woman.



morituri said:


> Though I despise OM no end, I find OW particularly despicable. OM seldom want anything other than a sexual fling with another man's wife, but the OW wants to completely replace the husband's wife and family in his life.


Personally in my eyes there is no difference between the OM and the OW, if both of them are aware that the object of their desire already is a relationship. 

In my eyes they are both being increadibly disrespctful towards soemone's family, whether their intention was to get sex just for the sake of it, or to replace their other person's spouse. 

However the consequences are indeed very different. Trying to replace someone's spouse involves destroying that family and so on. 

But the again, we can also argue that a man who chases married women is also doing something which could lead to the husbands wanting to leave their families too. So MY personal thoughts are that to me it's all the same.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> As for the OT, "cheating" is not a capital offense, but adultery. Biblical adultery, and the law in some countries and states still today, is defined in Exodus as a married woman having coitus with any man other than her husband. It's the marital state of the woman that makes it adultery. Both the adulteress and the adulterer were executed for the simple reason that they attempted to defraud the wronged BH by adulterating his lineage with false heirs.


This is why I ignore the Bible, for the most part. Some of the stuff advocated is downright immoral.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Ben Connedfussed said:


> This is agreed upon. Alpha sexually and allow the intellects to take care of the off-springs. And reap the financial outcomes. (her)


Never met an Alpha whose ass I could not kick.

Okay, back to training for my bout with George St Pierre.:smthumbup:


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> Oh this is a common theme here. The double standard is alive and well for some men. Men still cheat a he!! of a lot more than women do, but you dare not confuse anyone with facts. Men still get slapped on the back more often too, and told what studs they are by their buddies; while the woman's friends are more likely to either rat on her or drop her. The pill has upped the rate of cheating among women. That is sad, two wrongs never will make a right.


Nah, plenty of women do the cheerleading for their pals. There are plenty of Jerry Springer types of both genders.
And, womens' affairs are often more romanticized, as was done in "Bridges of ******* County".
But let's not go after each others' gender. We are all betrayed by these *******s. There are a-holes of both genders. Who cares which gender has the edge(although I think it is faily well accpeted that women cheat more than men)


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah? Well I lost count of all the married women who made passes at me when I was single.


Agreed. Me too. Women are animals.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

sandc said:


> What amazes me is the number of "my wife cheated on me" posts here on TAM. It would make you tend to think that female infidelity is on the rise. However, as another TAM poster pointed out, women tend to have support in the form of friends where men would tend toward the anonymity of the Internet. I sure wouldn't go crying to me buddies if my wife cheated on me. I'd ... come here to TAM.


I don't know. I would not hesitate to tell my buddies. I would not cry, however.
I know my buds would support and comfort me.
I think that women cheating is very much on the rise.


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