# To W spouses, what contributed to your decision to cheat?



## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

I know it's ultimately the WS decision in the end to do the wrong thing, but I want to know if there was anything that made you particularly vulnerable? Eg, emotional or verbal abuse, partner neglecting you in some way, unmet needs, loose boundaries?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Just divorce already.

Your husband is never going to be what you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

QuietSoul said:


> I know it's ultimately the WS decision in the end to do the wrong thing, but I want To knoif there was anything that made you particularly vulnerable? Eg, emotional or verbal abuse, partner neglecting you in some way, unmet needs, loose boundaries?


what contributed to it? My sense of entitlement, impulsivity, lack of maturity and justification for resentments. 
As you can see, those are personality traits, not bad marriage traits.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I could write you a laundry list of things that “contributed” to mine. 

But at the end of the day…….selfishness is the only one that really means anything.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Being you and knowing I was going to get some. How could I turn that down. The little head was doing alot of my thinking back in my youth.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I'll tell you what my therapist told me.

First, people cheat because there is something missing in their primary relationship, and sex usually is NOT the main thing mission. Friendship, emotional connection, love, communication, trust (beyond fidelity trust, I'm talking financial, etc...). These are the things that drive someone to be attracted to someone else other that their spouse.

Second, there needs to be someone providing those missing things. A friendly ear at work, the bartender at your local bar, a friend of a friend, a neighbor.

Third, there is something missing in the wayward spouse that doesn't allow them to take appropriate actions. This could be a lack of self-esteem, financial restrictions, just plain old moral backbone. These missing things don't allow the wayward spouse to see the "correct" courses of action... addressing the situation with their spouse, counseling or even divorce. So they take the easy way. They cheat.

When she explained all this to me I could immediately identify with each issue. Unfortunately I did this after cheating.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Gus, uncalled for dude. Seriously. I am just asking a question...


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks everyone else who responded. 

I had heard of a book called "how to affair proof your marriage". I don't know if it's any good but it got me thinking about prevention and being proactive about that


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

QuietSoul said:


> Thanks everyone else who responded.
> 
> I had heard of a book called "how to affair proof your marriage". I don't know if it's any good but it got me thinking about prevention and being proactive about that


Pointless.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

QuietSoul said:


> Gus, uncalled for dude. Seriously. I am just asking a question...


Someone stole Gus's ABBA records. He gets grumpy when that happens.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I gotta say, I kinda agree with Gus here. You've been posting about your marriage problems for more than 4 years and 41 threads all of which lament about your problems and your hubby. Your husband is a sex addict who frequently relapses - that alone right there spells the death knell for any marriage. Reading a book about affair proofing for you would be like trying to divert Niagara Falls with a feather.

And you chose to have a child with him despite that. I really do not see you being happy any time soon.

I am also married to a sex addict, but one who has chosen me over his addiction. Otherwise I wouldn't be with him.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I gotta say, I kinda agree with Gus here. You've been posting about your marriage problems for more than 4 years and 41 threads all of which lament about your problems and your hubby. Your husband is a sex addict who frequently relapses - that alone right there spells the death knell for any marriage. Reading a book about affair proofing for you would be like trying to divert Niagara Falls with a feather.
> 
> And you chose to have a child with him despite that. I really do not see you being happy any time soon.
> 
> I am also married to a sex addict, but one who has chosen me over his addiction. Otherwise I wouldn't be with him.


What is this? The Spanish Inquisition?

I am just asking a question. Yes I have posted in TAM many times over the years. This place has helped me and given me a sounding board when in have not been able to talk to others. Yes my H is a sex addict, but one who has been in recovery for 20 years and has only acted out with porn during the course of my marriage. I could go through your threads too and dig up a problems you have talked about but that doesn't give me an excuse to make unrelated comments and judgments when you merely post a question. It is also not a reflection of your marriage as a whole, just a reflection of the things you have reached out for support for


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

QuietSoul said:


> *Gus, uncalled for dude.* Seriously. I am just asking a question...


How so?

Either way, I was doing nothing more than providing the feedback that you -- in all honesty -- need.



bandit.45 said:


> Someone stole Gus's ABBA records. He gets grumpy when that happens.


Ha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Imovedforthis (Dec 18, 2015)

Lack of attention and affection from my husband.. Went on for about 6 mos- I told him he better start giving me some attention or I would find it elsewhere... Couple more months and another warning and I was done. 
Went to AM found a guy and had a 3 mos affair....

Also- at first I had thought it was just from lack of sex and me wanting that, but then soon realized it was just the male attention I wanted.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

QuietSoul said:


> What is this? The Spanish Inquisition?
> 
> I am just asking a question. Yes I have posted in TAM many times over the years. This place has helped me and given me a sounding board when in have not been able to talk to others. Yes my H is a sex addict, but one who has been in recovery for 20 years and has only acted out with porn during the course of my marriage. I could go through your threads too and dig up a problems you have talked about but that doesn't give me an excuse to make unrelated comments and judgments when you merely post a question. It is also not a reflection of your marriage as a whole, just a reflection of the things you have reached out for support for


I call em like I see em. Go ahead and look over my posts. You'll find I am in a far better place today than I was when I signed up here. You, not so much.

I also think you're in some denial about your husband. You said at one point he was looking up brothels and you didn't _think_ he visited any. Are you _really_ sure he isn't acting out with more than just porn? Does he see a CSAT or attend a 12 step group? I hope so.

Your question is about cheat-proofing a marriage. Are you not asking as it relates to your own marriage then?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Imovedforthis said:


> Lack of attention and affection from my husband.. Went on for about 6 mos- I told him he better start giving me some attention or I would find it elsewhere... Couple more months and another warning and I was done.
> Went to AM found a guy and had a 3 mos affair....
> 
> Also- at first I had thought it was just from lack of sex and me wanting that, but then soon realized it was just the male attention I wanted.


Yup, my husband tried this one on me. Tried to tell me that he went elsewhere because I wasn't giving him enough intimacy. You do know that's a total bull$hit excuse, right?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Hope, every intentional "tort" has three things;

Perceived pressure (for what ever reason, not satisfied with what they have ) 

Perceived rationalization. (feel they deserve to have their needs fulfilled)

Perceived opportunity.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Gus and Hope, if you want to rub my marriage problems in my face, then go dig up the relevant threads which you have gone out of your way to check up on and troll me there instead of hijacking this thread. Good day.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Phoenix, interesting points. I can see this pattern in some of the stories here. There have been two of my siblings in the last year who's marriages have broken down due to affairs. I have wondered what kind of led to the situations as they both seemed happy but I guess we never know whay is really going on in people's private relationships... 

I know that for me, there were times when I felt particularly vulnerable or worried about my husband, but the fact we got this far gives me hope, even though my family situation has been somewhat discouraging... 

I had heard if this book title a few times and recently saw a copy at our friend's place and it got me thinking on the concept that one can "affair proof" their marriage


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

I haven't read the book and don't know anything of the content but I believe to affair proof a marriage requires both people... It could be that the book says the same thing but the title seems to direct it to one singular person


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

QS, I don't think there is any one answer.

For my wife, it was a combination of factors. Personal pressures, not having good strategies to deal with certain situations, I believe a sudden uptick in her sex drive due to hormonal changes. Plus she is a very moral person, and simply thought she was above all that.......

For others, there's usually been something missing. One ex-couple I am close to, it was sexual incompatibilities that totally destroyed physical intimacy. They both wanted it, they just couldn't get on the same page. 

And then, there are people who just don't have the character to be committed full stop, they will cheat again and again, for whatever reason. Sometimes they think only in terms of what they can get away with. I think sometimes it is working out of deeper personality issues.

If your real question is about affair proofing a marriage.....I personally think you have a chance if it was out of character for the person who strayed, and if they admit their error. The exact steps will depend on who they are and what happened. But I'd start with sincere remorse. For those people I have known who are repeat offenders, I see no solution. It is just something about who they are.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Someone stole Gus's ABBA records. He gets grumpy when that happens.


https://youtu.be/dQsjAbZDx-4?t=1m25s

:laugh: Just teasing you Fernando, uh Gus.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

QuietSoul said:


> Thanks everyone else who responded.
> 
> I had heard of a book called "how to affair proof your marriage". I don't know if it's any good but it got me thinking about prevention and being proactive about that


What I've read here and do believe is that there is some helpful information in there. You can't really ever be certain that any partner will never cheat. Even the most steadfast BS who is completely against it, may someday, if the stars align, cheat. 

A couple can do some things to lessen the chances that infidelity will occur. Those things can be worked on. The rest is faith, hope, and knowing you can handle becoming a BS again and how you would handle it in a way that is acceptable to you and conforms to the law.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I honestly think a large percentage of married people have it in them SOMEWHERE to cheat. 

That's not to say they all will.

But I think given the "right" circumstances, a lot more people would fall to temptation than anyone would like to admit. 

I watched a show once where they did a lie detector test on a large group of people. The question was something along the lines of "If you had the chance to cheat and you knew 110% that your spouse would NEVER find out, would you cheat?"

Almost every single person that said no failed the question. Then there was the overwhelming majority of people that just admitted yes they would. 

I think a lot of people fully believe they never would, and probably wouldn't. But given the "right" circumstances, they may fall prey and even surprise themselves. 

Just an opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

QuietSoul said:


> Gus and Hope, if you want to rub my marriage problems in my face, then go dig up the relevant threads which you have gone out of your way to check up on and troll me there instead of hijacking this thread. Good day.


Where have either of us done _any_ of this?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> what contributed to it? My sense of entitlement, impulsivity, lack of maturity and justification for resentments.
> As you can see, those are personality traits, not bad marriage traits.


Wow just wow! Impressive analogy. 

Pretty rare to see. How long did it take you to understand yourself?


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## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

Sexless marriage for nearly a year had me strongly considering a physical affair.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Fitnessfan said:


> Sexless marriage for nearly a year had me strongly considering a physical affair.


I consider rejection over a long period to be abusive.

I think cheating is a harsher form of abuse do to betrayal and lying but being continually rejected is pretty damn bad and definitely worth ending a marriage over.

Glad you two are working it out!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Imovedforthis said:


> Lack of attention and affection from my husband.. Went on for about 6 mos- I told him he better start giving me some attention or I would find it elsewhere... Couple more months and another warning and I was done.
> Went to AM found a guy and had a 3 mos affair....
> 
> Also- at first I had thought it was just from lack of sex and me wanting that, but then soon realized it was just the male attention I wanted.


Definitely interested in your story and how your infidelity was dealt with and how it was overcome.

Unless it was your first marriage and that was the nail in the coffin?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I consider rejection over a long period to be abusive.
> 
> I think cheating is a harsher form of abuse do to betrayal and lying but being continually rejected is pretty damn bad and definitely worth ending a marriage over.
> 
> ...


Thanks CH. I am so very happy as well that we are working it out. Sexually things have vastly improved for us in the past year, which makes us closer in many other ways as well.
I agree that cheating is harsher betrayal. It's continually said that you should leave a sexless marriage and I agree that is completed warranted but when you have children together and you still love the person, it's very difficult to leave so you just end up extremely frustrated sexually. You have to choose between your best friend and family and having a sex life. You start to rationalize maybe something on the side might be better than living without sex or breaking up your family or leaving the person you love and have been with for 20 years.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Fitnessfan said:


> Thanks CH. I am so very happy as well that we are working it out. Sexually things have vastly improved for us in the past year, which makes us closer in many other ways as well.
> I agree that cheating is harsher betrayal. It's continually said that you should leave a sexless marriage and I agree that is completed warranted but when you have children together and you still love the person, it's very difficult to leave so you just end up extremely frustrated sexually. You have to choose between your best friend and family and having a sex life. You start to rationalize *maybe something on the side might be better than living without sex or breaking up your family or leaving the person you love *and have been with for 20 years.


So, you figure you won't get caught and you will feel better? You don't figure you'll fall in love with someone else? You don't think you will lose that "treasured" love you are considering having the affair to "protect"? 

See, this is confusing. It's like there was no rational thought put into it. It's all fantasy.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There were several reasons why my idiotic drunken revenge affair started. OW was a geek like me and loved Startrek, whereas my wife hated it.

Having a conversation with my wife can be very hard. She is a high functioning Asperger's and they often only want to talk about their stuff and will get angry if you derail their train of thought. 

My wife is honest and had, with her honesty, knocked my self-confidence. Her affair really smashed it to bits.

So, I needed to be wanted. I was desperate for someone to acknowledge that I was a man and who might even be a little bit attractive. 

And, I know this sounds pathetic and illogical, but I wanted to be with a woman who hadn't cheated on me.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I wasn't going to do this.....but since I'm feeling a lot of these same feelings right now, I will list all of the things that I feel led me to doing what I did. Saying I'm feeling all of these things doesn't mean I'm going to cheat again. But these things that I'm feeling are what I believe led me to just not give a **** in that moment about anything other than feeling good.

These are not the things I'm feeling right now, but contributors:

-Poor boundaries
-Believing that all men and women can be "just friends" with no ill intentions ever
-Naitivity in general due to blind trust in someone as a friend 

The feelings that I have now (again):

Not feeling attractive. My husband never compliments me. About an hour ago I posted a picture of my oldest daughter on Facebook. I've had 10-15 people comment and say something along the lines of "she's beautiful just like you!". My husband has NEVER once told me I'm beautiful. Never. I get "obviously I'm attracted to you".

Zero affection unless I initiate it. I couldn't tell you the last time my husband initiated a hug. He will hug me back if I hug him. Even rub my back. But he never initiates it and is always the first one to break away. The only kisses that he initiates are hello kisses when he gets home from work. And even then it's after he's said hi to the kids and the dogs. I like pecks better than tongue kisses most times, but if I peck, most times I want 9 or 10. I'll get 3 or 4 and the last one is always one where he pushes hard against my lips, pulls back and then turns his head. 

Lack of appreciation. I get no thank you's for anything. Dinner, laundry, a small surprise gift. I always say "you're welcome" and then I get a mumbled "thanks".

Emotional distance. If I bring up something important to me, I get eye rolling, an argument, I get told I'm too confrontational, I'm moody or too emotional.

Zero praise. I don't think I've ever got an "I'm proud of you", or an "I like the way you....." I have no idea what he thinks I'm good at because he's never told me.

I'm just going to stop right there because I'm getting upset.

But at the end of the day, all of these things that happened/are happening are also a choice I've made to stay with. I have brought up these things until I'm blue in the face over 10 years, as recently as last night and nothing ever changes. Zero effort at all. But that still doesn't make my cheating right. It makes me selfish for feeding into the things my OM was telling me, justifying them because I need them and playing into that high I was getting from a man I wasn't even attracted to just to make MY ego feel better. When what I should have done was just leave, 9 years ago when I was pregnant with my daughter and I found him texting another girl asking for pictures of her t*ts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> So, you figure you won't get caught and you will feel better? You don't figure you'll fall in love with someone else? You don't think you will lose that "treasured" love you are considering having the affair to "protect"?
> 
> See, this is confusing. It's like there was no rational thought put into it. It's all fantasy.


Of course you worry about all those things and spend a significant amount of time struggling in your head about those very things.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Chris Taylor said:


> I'll tell you what my therapist told me.
> 
> First, people cheat because there is something missing in their primary relationship, and sex usually is NOT the main thing mission. Friendship, emotional connection, love, communication, trust (beyond fidelity trust, I'm talking financial, etc...). These are the things that drive someone to be attracted to someone else other that their spouse.
> 
> ...


I confess I winced a bit at point 1.

There might be something missing, but it does not mean that there is anything a spouse can or should do about it. For example, many women become insecure that they are not as attractive to men generally as they get to their late thirties. A husband can make sure she knows that he finds her attractive and make her feel secure, but that is all. He cannot root out demons in her head. Now can a wife root out all the issues in a man's head. There is a feeling of something missing, yes, but many people will stay faithful under extremes whereas others will cheat at the drop of a hat.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Mr The Other said:


> I confess I winced a bit at point 1.
> 
> There might be something missing, but it does not mean that there is anything a spouse can or should do about it. For example, many women become insecure that they are not as attractive to men generally as they get to their late thirties. A husband can make sure she knows that he finds her attractive and make her feel secure, but that is all. He cannot root out demons in her head. Now can a wife root out all the issues in a man's head. There is a feeling of something missing, yes, but many people will stay faithful under extremes whereas others will cheat at the drop of a hat.


Turning 30 was hard for me. Each year into my 30s I feel less and less attractive. But I could give a sh*t if anyone else thinks I'm attractive (yes it's nice to HEAR, but it's not important). But I'd KILL to have my husband tell me I was attractive, just once.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LosingHim said:


> Turning 30 was hard for me. Each year into my 30s I feel less and less attractive. But I could give a sh*t if anyone else thinks I'm attractive (yes it's nice to HEAR, but it's not important). But I'd KILL to have my husband tell me I was attractive, just once.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hear you. (Well, read you, but I'm sure you know what I mean!)

My wife has never told me that I am handsome, or good looking.

In fact, quite the opposite. She has said things like: "You aren't good looking, are you?"

If you live with an Aspie you need a bloody good sense of humour and broad shoulders.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I'd say the hugs, kisses and things like that don't always work. Sometimes, there is something that is never revealed and causes infidelity. I did those things, pretty much as you wished. I did more, and it wasn't enough. I guess only she knows why and I'll never know.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> Wow just wow! Impressive analogy.
> 
> Pretty rare to see. How long did it take you to understand yourself?


a couple months probably, after my affair. I read online forums and books, went to IC like full time. I needed to fix myself and fast.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I can't really say that anything was lacking in my relationship. My issues stemmed from not seeing cheating as wrong in the first place. The way people acted about infidelity around me growing up didn't really show me the damage it can cause, because their attitude about it was lackadaisical. My mother didn't seem to mind it at all, even when a caller tried to expose what they had seen one day. I was pretty much taught by all my male role models that it was okay as long as you take care of "home" financially, and you don't get the OW pregnant or bring any diseases back. 

As I grew older though I started to form my own opinions. It just didn't seem right to cheat on someone that was devoted to you in every way. So I made some positive changes, even though the repercussions for infidelity in my marriage are practically nonexistent, provided I stay within certain boundaries. 

I did okay for a while, but at some point due to success I never anticipated at a relatively young age my ego became huge. I was getting a lot of attention (for the wrong reasons of course), and I just gave into it. The only thing that made me stop this time was that I realized none of it was real. That "home" was the only thing that was real in my life. I looked around me and all I saw were men with trophy wives in addition to their mistresses on the side. That whole lifestyle just all seems so empty to me now. Almost like a bad dream. I'm glad I woke up.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

LosingHim said:


> Turning 30 was hard for me. Each year into my 30s I feel less and less attractive. But I could give a sh*t if anyone else thinks I'm attractive (yes it's nice to HEAR, but it's not important). But I'd KILL to have my husband tell me I was attractive, just once.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LosingHim, am so sorry to hear of your situation 

I have had some similarities to your situation... am in my 30s (33 now), married 8 years, and some things have been lacking for a while now which gets me worried sometimes... there are times when I feel some despair but to my H's credit he is willing to talk about and work through things most of the time but some things with the help of a counsellor as we just can't seem to get on the same page when we try to talk ourselves... 

I am learning that after a while... well I am not going anywhere but I find I am having to either accept that some issues will likely continue for the rest of our lives (or a long time), and that some things can be worked through, but my options are stay or leave, and I am not leaving... but at the same time, everyone has their threshold and there have been a few times when he has pushed me to that point and only then did he get his wakeup call lol. I don't know if it's a male thing (not generalising all males but when I see this happen in relationships it seems to involve the male...) 

Would you husband be willing to see a counsellor with you?


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> Hope, every intentional "tort" has three things;
> 
> Perceived pressure (for what ever reason, not satisfied with what they have )
> 
> ...


You sure you are talking about intentional torts? None of what you cite constitutes an element of an intentional tort,as afar as I know.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

I have been thinking about the concept of an "affair proof marriage" and the discussion here has been quite interesting so far...

I have had a few times when I found myself feeling vulnerable. One particular time was about 18 months into my marriage, my husband was scheduled (involuntarily admitted to mental health ward) due to bipolar episode (his first one and when he received diagnosis). It was a pretty stressful time, he had been kind of emotionally absent for a month leading up to it and then for several months afterward I was the devil to him, he didn't realise he had been sick and thought i had betrayed him in some terrible way by sending him there when he was meant to be on some kind of spiritual mission. 

Anyway...

A man at my church (a married man!) who was older than me tried to be supportive of me but I can see now he was definitely being inappropriate... because I went to church the week after i put him in the hospital and i went outside because i was tearing up and he came out to comfort me but gave me this drawn out bear hug (body press and all) and then made sure i had his number and kind of encouraged me with compliments etc that were inappropriate...

I found myself thinking about him after that and catching myself, going wtf? He was way older than me and not attractive to me in normal circumstances, but then I realised that I was in a vulnerable position and I told someone a week later who knew us both and it was good just to get it out into the light and nip it in the bud. It wasn't a problem from that point. But I can see how if i just kept it to myself and just went with it and didn't question what was going on, either out of denial or naivety, where that could have led...

I can relate to the model mentioned earlier that someone's counsellor talked about, being how there is a perceived lack, and then some perceived opportunity comes along and how someone can think that they just happened to fall into this situation or find themselves there when they didn't think they were seeking it out (and initially this may be true)...

I can also relate to this feeling of entitlement or wanting revenge... like when we have gone through some of our really difficult times, that he needs a shake up. An affair could do the job, right? I catch myself with that from time to time and it kind of scares me. But I think it keeps me humble too, knowing that it can happen to anyone and that none of us are immune, given a certain set of circumstances... 

I am glad we have made it this far without either of us cheating. It's discouraging to see what is happening in my family but I think that humility (knowing it could happen to anyone including us) keeps me sober minded


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Everyone feels vulnerable at times.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Quiet Soul,

Just a comment on "an affair proof marriage" THERE IS NO SUCH THING ! yes, there are things you can do to reduce the percentages of your spouse having an affair, but unfortunately this topic is one that just about EVERYONE thinks will happen to the other guy.

The circumstances in an relationship may be identical and person A will cheat and person B might. The person who figures out accurately how to predict that with any certainty will become an instant billionaire.

We live in a world now that it highly sexualized in everything we do, from the workplace to the TV shows we watch. The sad fact is more and more peolple than ever are being unable to resist the temptations that are out there, and they are NOT all sociopaths or severely damaged individuals.

If people read the books that we all recommend early in their marriages BEFORE there is any affair,a lot of heartache could be prevented. Unfortunately, we are treating this disease like we used to treat cancer, that is after it strikes rather than in the preventative screening.

Affair proofing your marriage, or attempting to, involves some unpleasant and probably heated conversations because we are now conditioned to tolerate behavior from our spouses that never would have been acceptable years ago.

As a BH, I will use the example of the GNO or girls only vacations. If you are not comfortable with your wife going out to clubs dressed to tghe hilt with girlfriends, some of whom are on the prowl, you are called controlling and pig headed. I am NOT talking about a nice dinner in a nice restaurant with friends. I AM talking about a meat market environment where too many women today feel they are entitled to a night every week on flirting and having men buy them drink while hubby is home watching the kids.

Same thing with separate trips. You are called the same adjectives if you are n ot comfortable with your wife heading to a beach resort with a group who wants to play Spring Break. Most of the literature says that after the workplace, these kind of activities by BOTH sexes are detrimental to a marriage and more likely to lead to inappropriate behavior. But yet it is the cool thing to do.

I M NOT SAYING THIS IS A FEMALE PROBLEM. Men doing stupid things are the same and unfortunately women who are not comfortable with this are called nags, possessive, and prudish. 

So if you want to affair proof as best as possible your marriage, you avoid the activities to the best of your ability that INCREASE the opportunity. It's as simple as that, but it is not a popular opinion and I am sure I will get slammed here.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> But I can see how if i just kept it to myself and just went with it and didn't question what was going on, either out of denial or naivety, where that could have led...


So, you realize it's within you that the problem starts. You realize that when you change your perspective, you start to see yourself in a different light, with more respect, as a stronger woman, as someone to be proud of.

Looks like you are loving yourself through personal respect.

Vocalizing supports thinking. It's good to hear yourself say you do not agree with or appreciate those advances. 

You do realize that person bothering you might just be a dirt bag? 

I say, good job. Keep on keepin' on.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> I wasn't going to do this.....but since I'm feeling a lot of these same feelings right now, I will list all of the things that I feel led me to doing what I did. Saying I'm feeling all of these things doesn't mean I'm going to cheat again. But these things that I'm feeling are what I believe led me to just not give a **** in that moment about anything other than feeling good.
> 
> These are not the things I'm feeling right now, but contributors:
> 
> ...


Just WOW!! 
How do you live like this? I get you effed up and had an affair but the way your H treats you (he's obviously taken 0 responsibility for your unhappiness) is sick. My H maybe a ********* at times but he always compliments and notices things about me that are different. Is always appreciative of all my hardwork. Vey affectionate (always has been and I think this is why I never found out he cheated on me, nothing changed). 
You are so incredibly remorseful in your posts but nothing seems to be changing with your H. Didn't you also say that he had an affair??? How did you react to this? Why did he cheat?? 

Btw ((((HUGS)))


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> I can't really say that anything was lacking in my relationship. My issues stemmed from not seeing cheating as wrong in the first place. The way people acted about infidelity around me growing up didn't really show me the damage it can cause, because their attitude about it was lackadaisical. My mother didn't seem to mind it at all, even when a caller tried to expose what they had seen one day. I was pretty much taught by all my male role models that it was okay as long as you take care of "home" financially, and you don't get the OW pregnant or bring any diseases back.
> 
> As I grew older though I started to form my own opinions. It just didn't seem right to cheat on someone that was devoted to you in every way. So I made some positive changes, even though the repercussions for infidelity in my marriage are practically nonexistent, provided I stay within certain boundaries.
> 
> I did okay for a while, but at some point due to success I never anticipated at a relatively young age my ego became huge. I was getting a lot of attention (for the wrong reasons of course), and I just gave into it. The only thing that made me stop this time was that I realized none of it was real. That "home" was the only thing that was real in my life. I looked around me and all I saw were men with trophy wives in addition to their mistresses on the side. That whole lifestyle just all seems so empty to me now. Almost like a bad dream. I'm glad I woke up.


WOW RH!!! 

This ^^^ is what my H said to me about 1 week ago. At first I didn't understand why the he11 he said that because to ME it was not normal because How can a normal person think that??? But this was his mind set growing up (he had terrible role models and HORRENDOUS physical and mental abuse). He also thought thought cheating was not wrong and all he saw was infedility. It took our MC two days to explain this to me and why my H had this type of mind set. He's also forming his own opinions and wants to be devoted to his family. He has massive boundaries set up as well. 

Thank you for posting this. It's like dejavu.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

QuietSoul said:


> Gus and Hope, if you want to rub my marriage problems in my face, then go dig up the relevant threads which you have gone out of your way to check up on and troll me there instead of hijacking this thread. Good day.


Why so defensive? No one is trying to rub anything anywhere. I made an observation which I thought relevant to the thread. I also am curious about a couple of things that haven't been addressed yet - maybe you missed this post at the very bottom of page 1?



Hope1964 said:


> I call em like I see em. Go ahead and look over my posts. You'll find I am in a far better place today than I was when I signed up here. You, not so much.
> 
> I also think you're in some denial about your husband. You said at one point he was looking up brothels and you didn't _think_ he visited any. Are you _really_ sure he isn't acting out with more than just porn? Does he see a CSAT or attend a 12 step group? I hope so.
> 
> Your question is about cheat-proofing a marriage. Are you not asking as it relates to your own marriage then?


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Why so defensive? No one is trying to rub anything anywhere. I made an observation which I thought relevant to the thread. I also am curious about a couple of things that haven't been addressed yet - maybe you missed this post at the very bottom of page 1?


Hope, 

1. To comment on the issue of my H's sexual addiction (and to find answers to the question you asked), please go here. Some info is in the first post and other info is in my comments in the course of the discussion.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/274994-husband-looking-porn-brothel-sites.html 

2. Fair question I guess, but one you could have asked before you made assuptions and berated me for choosing to bear a child to my H. (And further to your comments, you should also know that things like mental illness and addiction don't just go away, they can be lifelong struggles that resurface again and again and may present new challenges in the seasons of life, but to comment on my marriage failures specifically, you are welcome to resurrect my old posts)

I stated my reasons for asking this question in my further comments on this post. See #8 and #19 to start with. My personal view (but open to change as I learn alot from this forum) is that affair proofing a marriage begins with both individuals being committed and proactive, that one person cannot control or stop the other person ultimately, but at the same time I appreciate that everyone's experience is different. For eg, one of the commenters here has shared her sad story about the way her needs are being neglected on an ongoing basis (and not just sexual needs). Whilst it is still ultimately the individual's decision to cheat or not cheat, both parties need to be doing their best to meet eachother's needs and listen and act in response. Again, my view, but open to hearing other's views on this idea of an "affair proof marriage" or finding out if anyone has even read the actual book as i am just really reflecting on a concept here...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think the best way to avoid cheating is by being completely transparent in marriage. Nothing hidden. All thoughts, feelings on the table.

So often, when we expose our inner selves to the light, our foolishness becomes evident and we can then see clearly to take a healthier path.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> I think the best way to avoid cheating is by being completely transparent in marriage. Nothing hidden. All thoughts, feelings on the table.
> 
> So often, when we expose our inner selves to the light, our foolishness becomes evident and we can then see clearly to take a healthier path.


Yep, exposure sometimes does work. Most folks think what they are doing is harmless when it starts. Some know it's wrong and continue in secret. Bringing the bad behavior into the light of day forces them to take some action.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Yep, exposure sometimes does work. Most folks think what they are doing is harmless when it starts. Some know it's wrong and continue in secret. Bringing the bad behavior into the light of day forces them to take some action.


I think self-exposure is best. Some people will be shocked into reality when they are exposed, but others may retreat farther into themselves.

Transparency certainly is powerful.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

QuietSoul said:


> Phoenix, interesting points. I can see this pattern in some of the stories here. There have been two of my siblings in the last year who's marriages have broken down due to affairs. I have wondered what kind of led to the situations as *they both seemed happy *but I guess we never know whay is really going on in people's private relationships...


This.....it seems a fine line when outwardly your marriage seems like a happy one, but internally it is far from it. Fake it til you make it sometimes comes off as "Golly gee that is a happy couple"...when the make it never happens.....

#currentstruggle


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

My W and I strongly disagreed over my career choice, because I would have to be gone for long periods of time. But she was happy with my direct deposit account, even after she had taken on a boyfriend and had checked-out of the marriage. So when a couple of military ladies expressed interest in me, told me I was handsome and funny, I acted on it. I can't say I was necessarily looking for it, but one lady was an awesome physical specimen, and the other gave good brain to match my intellect.

Or maybe I just honestly wanted to try something different after 10 yrs with the same lady, especially after she traded me in for a new model.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

SoulCrushed16 said:


> Just WOW!!
> How do you live like this? I get you effed up and had an affair but the way your H treats you (he's obviously taken 0 responsibility for your unhappiness) is sick. My H maybe a ********* at times but he always compliments and notices things about me that are different. Is always appreciative of all my hardwork. Vey affectionate (always has been and I think this is why I never found out he cheated on me, nothing changed).
> You are so incredibly remorseful in your posts but nothing seems to be changing with your H. Didn't you also say that he had an affair??? How did you react to this? Why did he cheat??
> 
> Btw ((((HUGS)))


He had a 10 year EA with his ex gf. That I suspect went physical but I have no proof and he won't admit to it. 

His reason for never leaving her alone was that I "always brought her up" That I "never let him stop thinking about her" so he always had to seek her out and see what she was up to. If I hadn't brought her up (which I brought her up because I would find texts, he'd search for her on FB, etc.) he would again seek to talk to her. Essentially it was MY fault he did this. 

I was always incredibly insecure about her because I was told by friends from day 1 he wasn't over her. I told him my insecurities of her and that his contact with her made me uneasy. That I always felt if he had the chance to be with her instead of me he would be. (She had cheated on him with her now ex-husband and chose the now ex-husband over my H). 

So when we separated, he called her 3 days later. They talked from October to February about possibly being together. She's the first person he ran to when he was single. She was the ONLY person he told about our separation. In the end, he "chose" me. Told me that if anything, it should give me closure where she is concerned because I always said if he had the chance to have her and not me, he'd pick her. That he had the chance and he picked me. 

He is not remorseful about his on-going contact with her over 10 years. I don't think he even thinks that his contact with her while we were separated should even hurt my feelings in the slightest. He has said his brain was a mess, he doesn't know if he had any feelings for her or if it was just revenge to me or what exactly it was. But since in his mind we were separated, he did nothing wrong and I shouldn't worry about it. 

But all it did was compound my fears, prove to me what I already knew - that he has some sort of unresolved feelings for her, that she is a threat to my marriage and that if anything happens in the future and we end up apart, she'll be right back in his life.

He has done NOTHING to rectify any of the inappropriate behavior over the last 10 years with her, he thinks that since in his mind it was "just talking" - it's forgivable and no harm done.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

To the OP...since I don't think my XWW is on this site I'll tell you what she'd say. She became unhappy because she felt like she didn't have enough control over her life. I don't know if that is true or not, but it's what she worked out with her therapist.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

LosingHim said:


> SoulCrushed16 said:
> 
> 
> > Just WOW!!
> ...


LH, I know others have said this previously, but it bears repeating. He is totally gas-lighting you regarding the OW. If only you had done such and such, or didn't do such and such, then he wouldn't be involved with her. Total BS, which I think you realize. If he wants to play that game of cause-affect blame, don't have sex with him for 6 months and give him a real reason to cling to the OW. I'd walk by naked every day too, and remind him every time he seeks her out, you add another month of no puzzy.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> He had a 10 year EA with his ex gf. That I suspect went physical but I have no proof and he won't admit to it.
> 
> His reason for never leaving her alone was that I "always brought her up" That I "never let him stop thinking about her" so he always had to seek her out and see what she was up to. If I hadn't brought her up (which I brought her up because I would find texts, he'd search for her on FB, etc.) he would again seek to talk to her. Essentially it was MY fault he did this.
> 
> ...


THIS makes me really angry on your behalf. Yes, we know you effed up when you had an affair; however, he was having one too. He "chose" you over her? What kind of nonsense is this? So in his mind you need to be grateful about it? You are so INCREDIBLY remorseful for your part and that's because you know it was a sh1tty thing to do. He's not remorseful because he didn't view it as wrong. They were just "talking"? If it went on for 10 years you best believe it went physical. 

Your husband needs some SERIOUS counseling if you two are going to get over this. Is he at least transparent? 
I hope you're in IC and are able to work on yourself. I hope you will find the strength to one day leave him to his own recognizance. He doesn't deserve to have you. He has taken you for granted. I don't ever condone affairs but in this case I don't feel sorry for your husband at all.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> I think self-exposure is best. Some people will be shocked into reality when they are exposed, but others may retreat farther into themselves.
> 
> Transparency certainly is powerful.


Not sure I understand what self-exposure is? 

Yeah, I realize some will retreat further into themselves. Makes me wonder what you have in mind as the end goal(s)?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Not sure I understand what self-exposure is?
> 
> Yeah, I realize some will retreat further into themselves. Makes me wonder what you have in mind as the end goal(s)?


Taking responsibility for one's actions. 

Self-exposure means telling people oneself as opposed to being outed.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> Taking responsibility for one's actions.
> 
> Self-exposure means telling people oneself as opposed to being outed.


Okay.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

It was either revenge or I was just lonely after W checked out of the marriage to be with OM.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

I am not engaged in an affair or ever was, but i do have wayward thoughts and behavior that have come about because of my Husbands affairs. 

I am walking the path i chose however, to be faithful until the marriage is possibly dissolved. (Started filing for divorce but then i chickened out i think) Its complicated. 

I want to be with someone who hasn't cheated on me. 
I want to feel that butterflies in my stomach again (Though i know those are temporary.) 
I want to get to know someone again... 

etc... i can go on and on with the I wants.... Point is Wayward thinking is selfish thinking. Im nearly a wayward because I'm thinking selfish thoughts. My trick is to think, I wouldn't do that. I would put my kids first and the possibility of a functionally healthy marriage again. That is where my focus should be if i want a more happy and secure future. 

I pep talk myself that doing what is right for me is also what is right for my family. Where if i did what i wanted, it would implode everything including the ethical person that i believe and want myself to be.


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## higgsb (Apr 4, 2016)

> I honestly think a large percentage of married people have it in them SOMEWHERE to cheat.
> 
> That's not to say they all will.
> 
> But I think given the "right" circumstances, a lot more people would fall to temptation than anyone would like to admit.


I don't think so. Look around at the variety of cheater and what they seem to have in common is a propensity for risky behavior. Cheaters are first and foremost, on the whole, risk takers so there could be a genetic basis for it. That's the nature part of it.

Not all risk takers go on to cheat but you couple it with learned character flaws like selfishness and you get someone primed to cheat.

That's why it is true that "once a cheater, always a cheater."


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

QuietSoul - I am an long time ago poster but your posts prompted me respond. I wonder if what some of the posters are trying to explain to you is that you have to accept people for who they are. If you have tried to work with someone for a long period of time to get them to change a behavior or overcome an issue they have but they continue to fall back to that same behavior over and over again. Eventually you have to accept that this is who they are. That they really don't want to change....you want them to change, but they really don't want to change....because if they really did, they would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mineforever said:


> QuietSoul - I am an long time ago poster but your posts prompted me respond. I wonder if what some of the posters are trying to explain to you is that you have to accept people for who they are. If you have tried to work with someone for a long period of time to get them to change a behavior or overcome an issue they have but they continue to fall back to that same behavior over and over again. Eventually you have to accept that this is who they are. That they really don't want to change....you want them to change, but they really don't want to change....because if they really did, they would.


Exactly.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

americansteve said:


> I don't think so. Look around at the variety of cheater and what they seem to have in common is a propensity for risky behavior. Cheaters are first and foremost, on the whole, risk takers so there could be a genetic basis for it. That's the nature part of it.
> 
> Not all risk takers go on to cheat but you couple it with learned character flaws like selfishness and you get someone primed to cheat.
> 
> That's why it is true that "once a cheater, always a cheater."


My wife despite her physical problems had been known to like risky behaviour so you could have a point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

mineforever said:


> QuietSoul - I am an long time ago poster but your posts prompted me respond. I wonder if what some of the posters are trying to explain to you is that you have to accept people for who they are. If you have tried to work with someone for a long period of time to get them to change a behavior or overcome an issue they have but they continue to fall back to that same behavior over and over again. Eventually you have to accept that this is who they are. That they really don't want to change....you want them to change, but they really don't want to change....because if they really did, they would.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 You are also judging the change or amount of change by your standards which are usually an all or nothing sum. You may very well perceive them not changing ,but they are just not to your standard yet. Humans are tricky things to figure out and pigeonhole.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

americansteve said:


> I don't think so. Look around at the variety of cheater and what they seem to have in common is a propensity for risky behavior. Cheaters are first and foremost, on the whole, risk takers so there could be a genetic basis for it. That's the nature part of it.
> 
> Not all risk takers go on to cheat but you couple it with learned character flaws like selfishness and you get someone primed to cheat.
> 
> That's why it is true that "once a cheater, always a cheater."


While I don't necessarily agree that once a cheater always a cheater. I do notice that other wayward men I've known have similar personalities as well as a sense of entitlement that makes them feel that cheating is okay. I've also noticed a correlation of more cheaters in certain occupations too. I won't name them because I don't want to offend anyone, but I think it goes without saying that certain personality types gravitate towards certain occupations.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

MineForever, again reiterate that my question was not stemming from my own personal situation, but the title of a book I seem to keep coming across, which got me thinking about a concept.

But FYI, my personal situation is that my H has not cheated, but has been in long term recovery for sex addiction and from time to time indulges in porn. I have not cheated but was tempted to a couple of years ago which I did not go through with. There are other complexities we both bring to the table which are realities in our marriage, which are detailed in other posts. 

I do not agree with your speculation but can see where you may be coming from.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> americansteve said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think so. Look around at the variety of cheater and what they seem to have in common is a propensity for risky behavior. Cheaters are first and foremost, on the whole, risk takers so there could be a genetic basis for it. That's the nature part of it.
> ...


I have noticed a pattern in this forum re certain occupations and correlation with cheating. I have noticed many stories where the spouse travels for work. This was the case for my brother with his WW. She is also some senior exec who rakes in the $$$, wondering if $ or power sends some peeps a bit silly? And maybe with a the traveling, it makes it too easy to feel disconnected to spouse and normal home life


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

QuietSoul said:


> I have noticed a pattern in this forum re certain occupations and correlation with cheating. I have noticed many stories where the spouse travels for work. This was the case for my brother with his WW. She is also some senior exec who rakes in the $$$, wondering if $ or power sends some peeps a bit silly? And maybe with a the traveling, it makes it too easy to feel disconnected to spouse and normal home life


From what I've inferred about stories I heard while my ex was in an affair(s), this is more common than most think. As one married woman, a doctor told me, she likes to go to Florida and meet up with some guy she met once on a trip. It's not something serious. It's simply a vacation that includes sex with someone other than her spouse. 

The AP is not nearly as wealthy, though he is in better shape and is "cooler" or more "macho" or something, than her spouse. She would never want to marry him, only have sex with him. He is so much more manly than her husband, the dentist. He doesn't have the same social circles as her husband. He isn't as intelligent. 

It's fun for her and a part of her vacation. Why shouldn't it be? She is a grown woman who is very successful and can do whatever she wants. It's no one's business what she does with her money and time, not even her husband's. This paragraph is facetious, however, truthful as to what I saw, heard, and the conclusions I deduced.

And, who knows? Maybe he does similar? Though, from what my then wife told me when I tried talking about it with her to understand it, because it's so foreign a thought, that doctor's husband does not do this and he doesn't know. She wants to keep it that way since it's part of the thrill.

So, I think it's a lack of restraint coupled with ability, opportunity, a real feeling of being better or above those who have not achieved as much and a feeling of deserving "the best" from life for the sacrifices she's made to get where she is. 

It's amazing the opportunities that present themselves when one has money, power, contacts, and some decent looks. Yeah, she was pretty hot. I saw her in the grocery store once with a one piece outfit that was very sheer and tight. If that wasn't advertising, I don't know what is.


ETA: She's a narcissist, in my opinion.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

QuietSoul said:


> I have noticed a pattern in this forum re certain occupations and correlation with cheating. I have noticed many stories where the spouse travels for work. This was the case for my brother with his WW. She is also some senior exec who rakes in the $$$, wondering if $ or power sends some peeps a bit silly? And maybe with a the traveling, it makes it too easy to feel disconnected to spouse and normal home life


I will preface this by saying its not an excuse, but, yes, money and power does make a lot of men go crazy. People just aren't prepared for the extra attention that it brings, or what it can get them. Especially guys that really weren't used to female attention. 

I've seen quite a few guys that I thought were stand up guys become completely wreckless. It not only corrupts them but everyone around them. I was once at a restaurant with a tech exec I know who was married at the time. He took a liking to the waitress. He was blunt and asked her what it would take for her to sleep with him. She said he'd have to buy her a Jaguar. She thought he was kidding. He bought her the car and she quickly became his mistress. For men like that, almost everyone is for sale.

I've been able to find stand up family guys as mentors at church for the most part. But being honest that only goes so far. It would be nice to have a mentor that walks in my shoes. Unfortunately I have yet to meet anyone at my level professionally that has not or does not cheat.


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

I didn't cheat but I can tell you what reasons my exH gave for his actions. They are pathetic and poor excuses! 1. I can't talk to you 2. I feel left out (when I found out I was expecting a baby) 3. I don't feel important??? So with this said he walked out our front door to go to work and someone else made him feel validated and desired. This all happened when there was many opportunities for counselling and resolving our issues instead of taking them to someone else. It hurt so much.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Someone stole Gus's ABBA records. He gets grumpy when that happens.


Maybe he needs a snikers bar.. lol


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