# Doing the "right thing" or looking after myself?



## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

Hi, so my wife and I separated at Xmas, we'd decided to have a trial separation, to see if we could work out the problems in our relationship, and see if we could stay together. It's not going to work, and we're now looking at divorce. 

Now though, it comes down to our assets, basically just the house. My wife wants to stay there, and I don't blame her for that, it's a great house, in a great location. She actually can afford to live there, and pay the bills, on her own, it doesn't leave her with a lot of disposable income, but she has a good job, and can afford it. Except, the bank won't lend her the outstanding mortgage value on her own. So...my wife wants me to stay on the mortgage (for around 3.5 years!) until it's down to a level that the bank will lend her the money, at which point she'll buy me out. 

Where I am with this is - I feel horrendous that I made the choice that our marriage is over, my wife still wants us to work things out. I want to "do right" by her, and let her stay in the house that she loves, but it kind of leaves me screwed to do so. 

While my name is on the mortgage, I can't buy anywhere else, not that I could afford to anyway, as I don't have the finances to pay a deposit on another house before my wife buys me out the current property. 

I'll have to rent for 3+ years...which is basically throwing money away as far as I'm concerned. I'm currently renting the spare room at a friends place, it's costing me £400 a month...realistically I'm not going to stay there for 3+ years, I'll probably have to move elsewhere to somewhere of my own and pay more in rent. I'm 34 years old, I can't be living in a mates spare room til I'm 38! Even if I did stay where I am, it'd be paying c£16k into someone elses mortgage over that time...when I should be getting my own place and paying off my own mortgage. 

I did bring up "selling the house" at the weekend, and was met with absolute outrage, more or less. How dare I make her move after making the decision to leave? Why am I trying to force her out of the house she loves? Why am I trying to f*** her over? That kind of thing. It makes me really upset to hear her saying these things to be honest. 

On top of that, I asked that my wife transfer me some money out of OUR savings account (it's actually in her account now, since we closed the joint account), I didn't want a lot, just a couple of hundred as it's been a busy month. At first she straight up refused...then said I was being unreasonable...then it transpired that she's planning to use that money to buy me out the house in the end...half of it is MY money! She plans to buy me out of our house with our money. That can't be right?

I feel like I'm being made out to be unreasonable in this situation, but can't help but think it's my wife who's being the unreasonable one. It's our house. I'd love to live there on my own, but I can't afford it. If we were to sell the house, we'd both be able to move on and buy somewhere else, "somewhere else" wouldn't be as nice as the house we own...but does that mean I should have to make the sacrifices she wants?


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Hibee said:


> Hi, so my wife and I separated at Xmas, we'd decided to have a trial separation, to see if we could work out the problems in our relationship, and see if we could stay together. It's not going to work, and we're now looking at divorce.
> 
> Now though, it comes down to our assets, basically just the house. My wife wants to stay there, and I don't blame her for that, it's a great house, in a great location. She actually can afford to live there, and pay the bills, on her own, it doesn't leave her with a lot of disposable income, but she has a good job, and can afford it. Except, the bank won't lend her the outstanding mortgage value on her own. So...my wife wants me to stay on the mortgage (for around 3.5 years!) until it's down to a level that the bank will lend her the money, at which point she'll buy me out.
> 
> ...


Do you have any minor children?


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

No kids. Sorry, should have mentioned that.

We have a dog...but I know that doesn't count...although I am paying "maintenance" of half the dog walkers fees haha


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Why are you leaving her? Why aren't you trying to save the marriage?

IF you MUST divorce her, than you need to get legal advise about the house and money. She cant pay you out of half the money is yours, and getting a mortgage in joint names when you are ending the marriage would be very unwise.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Hibee said:


> Now though, it comes down to our assets, basically just the house. My wife wants to stay there, and I don't blame her for that, it's a great house, in a great location. She actually can afford to live there, and pay the bills, on her own, it doesn't leave her with a lot of disposable income, but she has a good job, and can afford it. Except, the bank won't lend her the outstanding mortgage value on her own. So...my wife wants me to stay on the mortgage (for around 3.5 years!) until it's down to a level that the bank will lend her the money, at which point she'll buy me out.


When you get divorced, try to get rid of any entanglements to the other person. What happens if she still can't get a loan in 3.5 years, then what?



Hibee said:


> I did bring up "selling the house" at the weekend, and was met with absolute outrage, more or less. How dare I make her move after making the decision to leave? Why am I trying to force her out of the house she loves? Why am I trying to f*** her over? That kind of thing. It makes me really upset to hear her saying these things to be honest.


She is entitled to feel any way she wants, does not mean you have to agree with her. If she can't afford the house, then it will need to be sold (see my answer above about entanglements).



Hibee said:


> On top of that, I asked that my wife transfer me some money out of OUR savings account (it's actually in her account now, since we closed the joint account), I didn't want a lot, just a couple of hundred as it's been a busy month. At first she straight up refused...then said I was being unreasonable...then it transpired that she's planning to use that money to buy me out the house in the end...half of it is MY money! She plans to buy me out of our house with our money. That can't be right?


Yes, 50% of the savings money should be yours (at least in the US). You should ask for your 50% of the funds and be done with it. She may refuse but keep the bank records to show she took all the money when it comes up in court (if you get there). If she plans to buy you out, that should come out of her funds only.



Hibee said:


> I feel like I'm being made out to be unreasonable in this situation, but can't help but think it's my wife who's being the unreasonable one. It's our house. I'd love to live there on my own, but I can't afford it. If we were to sell the house, we'd both be able to move on and buy somewhere else, "somewhere else" wouldn't be as nice as the house we own...but does that mean I should have to make the sacrifices she wants?


Just because you want a divorce doesn't mean that she gets everything she wants. The expectation is that the couple will separate and divide the marital assets equitably. If neither of you can afford the house on your own, then it should be sold and divide the equity.


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Why are you leaving her? Why aren't you trying to save the marriage?


It doesn't work. We've not had the type of relationship we should have for a long time, living more like friends for far too long.

We've been through 2 sets of couples counselling already, and while I'll always love her, I know ending it is for the best. Since I moved out, I've felt a weights been lifted off my shoulders a bit to be honest, I feel far more relaxed than I have for years.


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

C3156 said:


> When you get divorced, try to get rid of any entanglements to the other person. What happens if she still can't get a loan in 3.5 years, then what?
> 
> 
> She is entitled to feel any way she wants, does not mean you have to agree with her. If she can't afford the house, then it will need to be sold (see my answer above about entanglements).
> ...


I agree with you completely. I know that it's my guilt that I've decided the marriage is over that's making me question it, plus she'll be devastated to have to sell the house, and I hate hurting her.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

The issue is that you want the divorce and she does not.
Unfortunately, divorce is divorce. Often, sacrifices are made on both sides.

You can absolutely go about this as amicably as possible and still look out for your best interests.

Selling a house as part of divorce is very normal. If she has enough means she will be able to find another living place without a problem.

When I divorced it was not long after my ex and I had bought a house. He bought me out of my half so that he could have it to himself (I was leaving the country anyway). I was also UK-based at the time. I don't see why she can't do the same for you if she wants to live there so badly.

Speak with a solicitor.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Hibee said:


> I agree with you completely. I know that it's my guilt that I've decided the marriage is over that's making me question it, plus she'll be devastated to have to sell the house, and I hate hurting her.


Yes, this is a personal demon that you must face on your own. If you can do some individual counseling, it may help you to come to terms with your guilt.

This may sound cold, but try to treat the divorce as a business transaction and leave emotion out of it. Treat her professionally and with respect, but it really is just a business deal at this point. Split the assets and move on with your life.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I would not suggest staying on the mortgage. There is too much potential liability, and you do not get the assets you need to get your own home. Does she have a relative who can afford to help her with a private loan? If she can find a way to keep the house without hurting your prospects, then great - otherwise, make the hard choice. You are not responsible for the two of you being incompatible, as long as you've tried to make things work. If they still don't work, lose the guilt and move on as cleanly as possible.

It also sounds like she's already trying to cheat you out of money you rightfully should have - that is a sign of what she'll do in the future. Do not give her such power or leverage over you.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> I would not suggest staying on the mortgage. There is too much potential liability, and you do not get the assets you need to get your own home. Does she have a relative who can afford to help her with a private loan? If she can find a way to keep the house without hurting your prospects, then great - otherwise, make the hard choice. You are not responsible for the two of you being incompatible, as long as you've tried to make things work. If they still don't work, lose the guilt and move on as cleanly as possible.
> 
> It also sounds like she's already trying to cheat you out of money you rightfully should have - that is a sign of what she'll do in the future. Do not give her such power or leverage over you.


The only cheat in this relationship is the op.He has had physical and emotional affairs,consistently lied to his wife and the last straw was when she found out he was meeting yet another female “friend” for coffee and to “talk”.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> The only cheat in this relationship is the op.He has had physical and emotional affairs,consistently lied to his wife and the last straw was when she found out he was meeting yet another female “friend” for coffee and to “talk”.


Fair enough. However, two wrongs don't make a right.


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> The only cheat in this relationship is the op.He has had physical and emotional affairs,consistently lied to his wife and the last straw was when she found out he was meeting yet another female “friend” for coffee and to “talk”.


No bother Andy...cheers for your fantastic input here.

I did cheat on my wife, about 4 years ago...I hadn't forgotten. I do think I am allowed to have female "friends" and we are allowed to "talk".

I don't really see the relevance of your point to what's going on now though?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You are entitled to half the joint assets upon divorce. She is entitled to half upon divorce. That's it. She is not entitled to stay in the house, nor is she entitled to ride on your finances for 3+ years until she can get her own financing.

When the divorce is final, you want to have absolutely no legal or financial ties to her. You have already identified that it will cripple your finances and your ability to live in housing of your choosing. Here's another issue which would be huge in the USA, and perhaps in the UK. If you are on the title to the property then you are legally liable for whatever happens there. If someone gets hurt or killed, you could be sued. If someone commits a crime, you could be held liable. In either case you could face huge legal bills to defend yourself even if you ended up winning. In the USA they can seize a home if an illegal drug business occurs there, even if the owner has no knowledge! Idk if you have the same kind of credit report scoring we do, but here our credit score is key to almost everything from employment, to borrowing money for a house or car, to being able to rent an apartment. If your name is still on the mortgage and she stops making payments, you'll either have to make payments or you'll be in default! If she misses a payment it will hurt your credit score because your name is still on the mortgage!

Too bad for her. The truth is she cannot afford that house. In the future she predicts she can afford it, but today she cannot. Unfortunately with divorce there are reductions in lifestyle due to realities.

While you may be feeling some guilt about initiating the divorce, you are doing the right thing for her. If you cannot be happy and a good partner to her, she will not experience a good happy marriage. It doesn't matter if either you or her are "at fault" for this marriage not being good. Nobody even has to be at fault. It could just be not a good match between two otherwise good people. While she may be unhappy about leaving the house, it is the cost of a happier future for her in the long run.

As to how she buys you out, you need to talk to a lawyer. You should also be sure to have copies of all the finances for as far back as you can. All the bank accounts, tax forms, retirement accounts, investment accounts, home purchase and mortgage, etc. In the USA, the day you file for divorce is the financial snapshot they use (in general) to determine assets. Since you have not filed yet, things are still subject to change. For example, if one of you loses a job, buys a car, makes a bad investment, or spends a lot of money then it will affect the division of property. But once you file the papers then your finances are considered separated. Where you live there would be some similar gate where after that she can spend money or whatever and it doesn't come out of your pocket.

Up until then, if let's say she has a bank account with 10k in it and you have an account with 2k in it, the total is 12k. You and she are each entitled to 6k of it. The court doesn't care how much is in your account vs her account, the court just looks at the total 12k and then divides it in half. Same with other assets like whatever equity is in the house or cars. Total everything up, then divide by 2. After that is done then it is just the details of shuffling things around until you each have your half of the total value.


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> I would not suggest staying on the mortgage. There is too much potential liability, and you do not get the assets you need to get your own home. Does she have a relative who can afford to help her with a private loan? If she can find a way to keep the house without hurting your prospects, then great - otherwise, make the hard choice. You are not responsible for the two of you being incompatible, as long as you've tried to make things work. If they still don't work, lose the guilt and move on as cleanly as possible.
> 
> It also sounds like she's already trying to cheat you out of money you rightfully should have - that is a sign of what she'll do in the future. Do not give her such power or leverage over you.


I had kind of believed her dad might have stepped in to help her out, but it's not happening, and it's not really my place to ask her why not.

We're meeting on Saturday to discuss what's going to happen with the house...I'm kind of dreading it.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

She should rent part of the place out.... she can rent it to a girlfriend 'under market', etc.

Will give her enough juice to make it on her own.


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> She should rent part of the place out.... she can rent it to a girlfriend 'under market', etc.
> 
> Will give her enough juice to make it on her own.


She's totally open to that, and would do so, there's 2 empty spare rooms that are furnished and could be rented out no problem.

It doesn't really help me though, as she doesn't have the money to buy me out, which means I'd still be renting for at least 3.5 years. Which is kind of the point of my OP...do I look after myself?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hibee said:


> She's totally open to that, and would do so, there's 2 empty spare rooms that are furnished and could be rented out no problem.
> 
> It doesn't really help me though, as she doesn't have the money to buy me out, which means I'd still be renting for at least 3.5 years. Which is kind of the point of my OP...do I look after myself?


If that's added to her income, does she qualify for the loan?

I'm asking how much she needs in additional income.


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> If that's added to her income, does she qualify for the loan?
> 
> I'm asking how much she needs in additional income.


Ah I see what you mean...but I'm not sure to be honest. I think it would maybe help, but she obviously couldn't guarantee the bank that it'd be a regular income stream, as what if there was no lodger for long periods?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Not. Your. Problem.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hibee said:


> Ah I see what you mean...but I'm not sure to be honest. I think it would maybe help, but she obviously couldn't guarantee the bank that it'd be a regular income stream, as what if there was no lodger for long periods?


Get the renters to sign a lease. If it's under market, they can commit longer term.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Get a lawyer do not try and discuss and work this out on your
own with her. If you meet with her then tell her to contact your 
lawyer. As for not wanting to hurt her I think that ship has all ready
sailed when you asked for divorce. If you want half of the savings and your
name off of the house that is what lawyers and courts are for!!


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

The only way to pull your name off the mortgage is for her to refinance. It's up to the bank to determine whether she qualifies for that, and the requirements could be different in 3.5 years than they are now, so don't trust her offer to hold up in a few years. If you followed the lending rules during and after the real estate bubble 10 years ago you'll know what I'm talking about. Maybe her parents could co-sign on the mortgage or she can spend some time shopping at different banks/credit unions until she finds one that will approve her. 

I never refinanced my house after I divorced my XW because the interest rates went up and I'm locked in at a super low rate. I told her that if she wanted a refinance she could pay the costs and buy the points down until I'm back at my original rate. I've reviewed our property settlement and it's a bit murky whether she has a legal right to be removed from the mortgage or not, and since I'm not doing it voluntarily she'd have to take me to court to try to force me to do it. If you stay on the mortgage willingly now your wife could pull the same thing later, especially if the interest rates go up as they are predicted to. By being named on that mortgage you will not be able to get approved for a mortgage of your own if you decide later you want to buy your own house.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Just looking at all avenues, do they allow a second mortgage in the UK?

How much money are you talking about? If she could finance the house to the extent she can with a primary mortgage and then get a second shorter one for the balance...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It sounds like you need to force the sale of the house. It's not fair to you for you to stay on the mortgage for her benefit.

You want to do right by her. But she does not seem to want to do right by you.


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> It sounds like you need to force the sale of the house. It's not fair to you for you to stay on the mortgage for her benefit.
> 
> You want to do right by her. *But she does not seem to want to do right by you*.


That's how I feel about it too.


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

Another question -

As I'm meeting my wife on Saturday to discuss what we're going to do...should I message her beforehand to say "look, I think we should sell the house"? Up to this point I've not mentioned selling, we've just been looking at ways she can stay in the house. Is it better to warn her before we meet, that I'm now thinking we should sell, or do I just wait unitl Saturday and tell her then?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It might be good to forewarn her, otherwise the meeting may turn into a major conflict with no progress.

I suggest listing out ALL of the options to discuss, with perhaps a pro/con note about each from YOUR perspective. Include everything from staying on the mortgage to selling, and add things like her refinancing with a cosigner such as her father. Avoid cons such as not trusting her (even if true, it won't help the discussion). Keep it practical, about financial liability and inability to qualify to buy your own place if her plan is accepted, or an end to financial entanglements with each other, etc.

Don't expect agreement or a decision. I'm sure she's attached to getting what she wants even at your expense. Don't agree to that, of course! Stay calm and tell her that you will not stay on the mortgage, but are fine with her keeping the house if she can refinance and buy you out, or with selling it and splitting assets. If you haven't already, get legal representation ASAP, and don't make any commitments until after you've had a consultation.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

The truth is she cannot afford this house. Banks will lend more money than a person can usually pay, which means if the bank won't loan her money then she really cannot afford the house. The only way it works on paper for her is if you are carrying part of the financial load, and that means that your lifestyle takes a big hit.

One option is for you to treat this as a financial deal. She owes you some additional moneys at the end of the 3.5 years. You are in effect loaning her quite a bit of money, and she should pay you for that.

On the liability side, you should consider requiring her to carry a very large insurance policy and having your lawyer draw up an indemnity contract to shield you from any lawsuits. All it takes is one child to get hurt on that property somehow and you're going to be sued for millions.

The #1 financial mistake women make in divorce is staying in a house they cannot afford. They end up bankrupt in just a few years. Your stbxw is setting herself up for that situation. Even worse will be if she were to lose her job or have a major medical problem that keeps her out of work for months. If interest rates go up significantly before she refinances (and everybody expects that they will), she may not be able to afford the payments the new mortgage will have. This is a train wreck in her future, and you should stay as far away as possible.

I would approach her not that the house must be sold, but that you cannot stay on the title or the mortgage. How she solves her financial problems is up to her.


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## Hibee (Dec 26, 2017)

Thanks for everyones replies on this thread - just a wee update to say all went well in my chat. I'd been dreading it all week, but she was in total agreement that we need to sell the house and go our separate ways. 

I'm sure we'll have a few more niggles along the way, with regards to splitting the money, and who gets what furniture...but at the moment it's all very amicable.


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## Just another (Feb 21, 2018)

Thats good to hear. Glad it went well.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

sa58 said:


> Get a lawyer do not try and discuss and work this out on your
> own with her. If you meet with her then tell her to contact your
> lawyer. As for not wanting to hurt her I think that ship has all ready
> sailed when you asked for divorce. If you want half of the savings and your
> name off of the house that is what lawyers and courts are for!!


Your wife's suggestion is "Give it all to me", this suggestion is "End negotiations." I'll suggest a third, mediation. 

A mediator will try to find a solution amenable to both parties. In your case he would ideally point out that you are being asked to sacrifice and she isn't, and that she is giving you no incentive not to fight. He might suggest some compromises that would be better for both of you.

Neither of you has to accept this, but it is easier to fight after compromise has been tried, than it is to compromise after fighting has been tried.


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