# My Wife's Emotional Affair with a Coworker. How do I move on?



## Hangingon78

This will be my first time posting, even though I have been reading on here for quite some time. Here is a little background before I get to the questions I have for you guys. My wife and I have been married for 12 years, and have 4 kids. We met and married right out of high school, and were each other’s first loves. My wife growing up, was a straight laced girl, and could be considered a goody goody. She always got super good grades, and was very responsible. Because of this, I have always believed and trusted everything she says. I could not even imagine her lying to me. She has the type of personality, that she is not afraid to tell you exactly what she is thinking. She can be very blunt, which is one of the things I have always admired about her. I have always trusted her for that reason.

Well, a couple years after getting married, she got a part time job at a telemarketing place, and not long after starting there, she said there was a guy there that kept giving her all these compliments, and telling her how gorgeous she is. I told her that he was no good, and she should avoid him at all cost. Well, a few weeks after this, she is late getting home from work, and her work is only a couple miles away from our home, so I decided to drive over there to make sure her car is there. This was before we had cell phones, and I had no way to get ahold of her at work. Anyway, I pull into the parking lot, and park by her car. After about 30 minutes, she comes pulling into the parking lot in the passenger side of the guys car that she told me was paying her compliments. There was another girl with them in the back seat, and the look on her face was total shock. So she proceeds to tell me every excuse in the book. She said they ran out of work, and there boss let them off early, and that guy and the other girl invited her to go get something to eat. She said it was completely innocent, and she didn’t think I would get that upset. So she tells me that she won’t talk to the guy anymore, and a month or so later, I find out that she was meeting him at a grocery store parking lot, and he would get in her car, and they would talk. She said this happened twice, and that nothing physical happened. Anyway, this was a huge blow to me. I felt unwanted and worthless as a husband. I just couldn’t believe that my wife thought this would be okay to do. She said she trusted herself, that nothing would happen, and didn’t think it was that big of a deal. She ended up getting another job, and I never heard anything about that guy again. This was over ten years ago, and we moved on, and I chalked it up as a mistake, and a moment of weakness on her part. At the time we had 1 daughter, and now we have 3 more kids.

So, fast forward to summer of 2014. I felt like something was off in our marriage, and was feeling lonely, even when I was with my wife. I started to get suspicious, and decided to check our phone bill. I get on our account, and there is a particular number that is showing up on there all the time that I don’t recognize. Alarm bells are going off in my head at this point, and I think to myself, maybe it is one of her female coworkers. So I decide to call the number to see who answers. I call, and a man answers, and my heart sinks. I told the guy that I had the wrong number, and then called my wife and demanded to know who’s number that was. She said it was a guy she worked with, and that he is “Just a friend”. I started digging through the history, and there was over 1,000 texts between them over a 2 month period. Of course she had been deleting all of the texts.

I was devastated. Mostly over the deceitfulness, and the hiding stuff from me. It brought back the rush of memories from the incident over ten year ago, only times ten. So, after some craftiness on my part, telling her that I bought some software that could read her last 5,000 texts, and that she had one last chance to come clean before I read everything that was said. She starts telling me all the details, and I really feel like she told me everything she could. I will never believe that I know everything, but because of certain things she said, and the timeline, I was sure that it didn’t get physical. From some of the last conversations they had, it was very close to becoming such, as he was making his intentions clear.

So after this discovery, my wife was very remorseful, and said how sorry she was, and that she didn’t think it was a big deal, and that she didn’t mean to hurt me. I was so angry the first day, that I came home and was looking up divorce attorneys. She begged and pleaded for me to give her another chance, and after a few days, I told her that I would be willing to try again, but only under new conditions. I told her that she had to change jobs, so she wasn’t working directly with him, which she did. She now works in a completely different building, although it is the same company. She has not even seen him for the last 8 months, so I am very certain the EA is completely over. 

So this brings me to my actual questions. In the wake of what’s happened, how do I move forward? I can never fully trust her again, and I will always have this feeling that she wants someone else. I can’t stop thinking about the affair. I think about it every day. How do I get to a place where I feel safe again? It just feels like the foundation of our marriage is cracked and crumbling, and I am trying to figure out how to rebuild it, or at least repair it. She is frustrated with me, because she thinks I should be over it by now. One of the things that still kills me, is if I ever bring it up, she will say “It wasn’t a big deal, and he was just a friend”. I told her I can’t stand it when she says he was just a friend. She says I have just blown everything way out of proportion, and what she did is not that big of a deal. So do you guys think I am crazy? Would you be upset in my circumstance?


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## kristin2349

She has had two EA's that you are aware of. You haven't gotten into "why". That would be part of the healing. Along with her being completely totally honest and transparent. I wouldn't be in a rush to "move on" that will lead to sweeping this under the rug. And it will happen again.

There is a lot of work involved in healing your relationship and rebuilding trust. If you both want to do it, it can be done. I think working with a counselor would be in order. Also the book "Not Just Friends" is a good one for you both to read.


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## michzz

Hangingon78 said:


> ... One of the things that still kills me, is if I ever bring it up, she will say “It wasn’t a big deal, and he was just a friend”. I told her I can’t stand it when she says he was just a friend. *She says I have just blown everything way out of proportion, and what she did is not that big of a deal. So do you guys think I am crazy? Would you be upset in my circumstance?*


Of course I'd be upset. She is gaslighting you.

Your wife wants you to ignore what you see with your own eyes. Plus, she wants you to not find out the true nature of the affair.

You are just at the beginning of this sad journey.

What you already know? Apply the iceberg rule: 90 percent is hidden under water.


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## Hangingon78

kristin2349 said:


> She has had two EA's that you are aware of. You haven't gotten into "why". That would be part of the healing. Along with her being completely totally honest and transparent.
> 
> There is a lot of work involved in healing your relationship and rebuilding trust. If you both want to do it, it can be done. I think working with a counselor would be in order. Also the book "Not Just Friends" is a good one for you both to read.


Kristin, thanks for the reply first of all. So just to clarify, in order to avoid writing a book, there are many details I had to leave out here. We have hashed over the why’s over and over. I owned up to the things I was doing wrong, and not meeting all of her emotional needs. We went to a marriage counselor for about 5 months, and had some very good break through conversations, and quite honestly there are days when I feel like everything is great. But I just can’t seem to get over it. It is always there, and I don’t know if we will ever get back to the level of trust I had before. In fact, I am coming to the realization that it is impossible to ever get back to that, so I would just settle for good enough. I want to feel safe and happy again.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

So, you never read any of those 5000 texts?...

If so, bad move. That was your chance to learn a lot of thruth about what she had been doing and maybe planned on doing.

Now you're trying to R on her word alone and it's not enough. She's told you that she'd never do this again, more than once. You know in the back of you mind that it could very well happen again.

If you ever recover any information in the futre that might shed light on what she's done/not done, or where shes at, I'd suggest at least saving/storing it in a safe place.

Then if you start to wonder... You'll be able to at lest confirm, or deny your suspicions by seeing what she was actually telling this/or the next man she starts an EA with.

As the number of times that she's gotten caught went up, so does the level of sneaking/going under ground also. The last time wasn't her first rodeo and with each ride she's learned how to stay in that saddle a little longer/better. Never let her know when you've checked up on her. At least not until you have some concrete evidence.

I'm not saying that she will do this again, but you know that it's a possability. Stay informed, alert and aware. Some people never quite get over being cheated on(EA, or PA). But it just may take longer than you'd ever thought it would. There's no set time ratio on this. Maybe you could try some IC to see if that helps.


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## GusPolinski

Hangingon78 said:


> She is frustrated with me, because she thinks I should be over it by now. One of the things that still kills me, is if I ever bring it up, *she will say “It wasn’t a big deal, and he was just a friend”.*


Then why was she deleting the texts?



Hangingon78 said:


> I told her I can’t stand it when she says he was just a friend. She says I have just blown everything way out of proportion, and what she did is not that big of a deal. *So do you guys think I am crazy?*


Nope.



Hangingon78 said:


> Would you be upset in my circumstance?


Yep.

Here are your problems...

1) She was deleting all of the texts, so you have no way of knowing whether or not it was truly innocent texting or an emotional affair. Or, for that matter, _a *physical* affair_.

2) Whether she's working in another building, another department, or whatever, she's still working there, which means that they can talk on the phone, talk via e-mail, chat via AIM/Office Communicator/Lync, etc. Or one of them could just walk over to the other building. I don't imagine it would be too difficult for them to see each other at lunch on at least a semi-regular basis.

Hell, she might even have a burner phone.

Additional thoughts...

Did you ever attempt to recover texts from the phone? If not, why?

What kind of phone is it?


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## italianjob

Hanginon,

I think you're risking another rugsweeping because you are afraid to dig for the truth, just as you were the previous time, because you are afraid of what the truth will turn out to be.

You need to Retrieve those text. IMO, this was a PA and the same was 10 years ago, but you need to know for sure.

Some of the more technical guys might be able to help you with those texts.

Good luck.


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## GusPolinski

Another thought...

Young children and a (possibly serial) cheating wife?


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## kristin2349

Hangingon78 said:


> Kristin, thanks for the reply first of all. So just to clarify, in order to avoid writing a book, there are many details I had to leave out here. We have hashed over the why’s over and over. I owned up to the things I was doing wrong, and not meeting all of her emotional needs. We went to a marriage counselor for about 5 months, and had some very good break through conversations, and quite honestly there are days when I feel like everything is great. But I just can’t seem to get over it. It is always there, and I don’t know if we will ever get back to the level of trust I had before. In fact, I am coming to the realization that it is impossible to ever get back to that, so I would just settle for good enough. I want to feel safe and happy again.


I get it, in my case I could not get it back. It didn't take me long to realize I never would. I am now finalizing my divorce, 25 years down the drain. His mistress was a coworker 21 years younger. I caught the affair and was told it was "just an EA" I couldn't shake the feeling that I was still being deceived and couldn't trust him enough to agree to reconcile. It wasn't just an EA, as is often the case. I was almost convinced it was. Even the VAR recordings were tame enough to be a "close friends" situation. 

If your gut is telling you not to trust her...listen.


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## BetrayedDad

1) Adult women don't jump in men's cars just to "talk". Plenty of time to talk at work. She's screwing around on you. Wake up man.

2) Your wife is a serial cheat and frankly a liar. Every time she finds a new guy it just gets easier and easier for her to self justify. She loving the cake she's eating.

3) You are letting her off the hook FAR too easy. No wonder she has lost respect for you. What consequences have you given her besides quitting her job? Every time she quits, she just gets a new OM.

4) I think you're crazy for putting up with this garbage. Have some self respect. Serve her with divorce papers THEN see if she's willing to fight for her marriage.


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## Hangingon78

So, just to clarify. I was totally bluffing when I told her I was going to be able to read the last 5,000 texts on her phone. I had already looked into it, and the basic phone she was using was impossible to recover deleted texts from. I even called verizon asking if there was anyway to get them. The reason I feel like I got most of the information, is because when I told her that, she got that deer in the headlights look, and started rattling off all sorts of stuff that she was worried I might read. But, you guys are right, that I will never really truly know, and that eats me up inside. The only thing I have to go off of at this point, is the complete 180 she has done since then as far as our relationship. She is so much more attentive to my needs. I don't feel like I am being deceived anymore, and I don't have that lonely feeling I once had. I truly think she wants to fix what she has done.


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## GusPolinski

Hangingon78 said:


> So, just to clarify. I was totally bluffing when I told her I was going to be able to read the last 5,000 texts on her phone. I had already looked into it, and the basic phone she was using was impossible to recover deleted texts from. I even called verizon asking if there was anyway to get them. The reason I feel like I got most of the information, is because when I told her that, she got that deer in the headlights look, and started rattling off all sorts of stuff that she was worried I might read. But, you guys are right, that I will never really truly know, and that eats me up inside. The only thing I have to go off of at this point, is the complete 180 she has done since then as far as our relationship. She is so much more attentive to my needs. I don't feel like I am being deceived anymore, and I don't have that lonely feeling I once had. I truly think she wants to fix what she has done.


What kind of phone is it?

Is she still using it?


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## Primrose

I would bet money that this most recent affair was physical. It reminds me so much of my husband's self proclaimed "EA" that he admitted (3 years later) was physical after all. 

The amount of texts back and forth is a huge red flag.


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## Hangingon78

GusPolinski said:


> What kind of phone is it?
> 
> Is she still using it?


 It is a Samsung Galaxy Flip phone. I searched and searched for ways to recover them. Now there is the issue of how much time has passed. It has been 10 months since the texting was going on. Believe me, I would really like to know what was said in those texts, so I could be the judge of her character without her watered down version.

Hind sight is 20/20, but if I could go back I would have kept my mouth shut, and hooked up the online texting app for her number. I ended up doing this later in the summer, and all of her texts would come right to my Ipad. I never found anything out of the ordinary at this point, but I sure wish I could go back in time, and watch the conversations play out. But the reality right now, is I am just stuck with assumptions and half truths.


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## GusPolinski

Hangingon78 said:


> *It is a Samsung Galaxy Flip phone.* I searched and searched for ways to recover them. Now there is the issue of how much time has passed. It has been 10 months since the texting was going on. Believe me, I would really like to know what was said in those texts, so I could be the judge of her character without her watered down version.
> 
> Hind sight is 20/20, but if I could go back I would have kept my mouth shut, and hooked up the online texting app for her number. I ended up doing this later in the summer, and all of her texts would come right to my Ipad. I never found anything out of the ordinary at this point, but I sure wish I could go back in time, and watch the conversations play out. But the reality right now, is I am just stuck with assumptions and half truths.


What's the model number...GT-I9230?


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## lordmayhem

Oh boy, is this a classic workplace affair or what? Almost word for word out of the cheaters script. 

Considering the amount of texts, this Emotional Affair (EA)has likely progressed into a Physical Affair (PA), especially since OM is local. 

This particular WW can't seem to stop cheating with her male coworkers. It seems all it takes is for some guy to call her gorgeous. Ask Thorburn, that's all it took for his WW to spread her legs for OM. Whoever said flattery doesn't get you anywhere doesn't know a thing about infidelity. 

I seriously doubt that this affair is over, it's probably gone underground. Then there's the typical "he's just a friend" and the "get over it" rugsweeping. This WW isn't remorseful, not one bit.

Time to investigate further.


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## lifeistooshort

Maybe you could find yourself a nice female "friend" and exchange all kinds of texts with her and when your wife catches you tell her it's just a friend, it's no big deal, and she's making way too big of a deal out of it.

I wouldn't recommend you screw someone else if that's what she'd done but sometimes a little empathy goes a long way.


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## lordmayhem

Hangingon78 said:


> Hind sight is 20/20, but if I could go back I would have kept my mouth shut, and hooked up the online texting app for her number. I ended up doing this later in the summer, and all of her texts would come right to my Ipad. I never found anything out of the ordinary at this point, but I sure wish I could go back in time, and watch the conversations play out. But the reality right now, is I am just stuck with assumptions and half truths.


She knows you busted her last time by checking the phone bill. There may be a burner phone hidden somewhere. Plus, she still works with the OM, it doesn't matter if they are in different buildings, there's no way you can ensure NC is established. They have their work phones and work email. Time for a VAR AND she must quit her job there. There can be no exceptions to this.


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## Hangingon78

GusPolinski said:


> What's the model number...GT-I9230?



I just looked it up. it is a Samsung Intensity II in Metallic Blue. Everything I read said that you couldn't retrieve texts, but I would love for that to be proven wrong.


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## GusPolinski

Hangingon78 said:


> I just looked it up. it is a Samsung Intensity II in Metallic Blue. Everything I read said that you couldn't retrieve texts, but I would love for that to be proven wrong.


This one...










...?


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## weightlifter

Gus, yoU are as scary as me.

Thats a compliment.

Original poster, read the top link in my signature.


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## Hangingon78

lordmayhem said:


> She knows you busted her last time by checking the phone bill. There may be a burner phone hidden somewhere. Plus, she still works with the OM, it doesn't matter if they are in different buildings, there's no way you can ensure NC is established. They have their work phones and work email. Time for a VAR AND she must quit her job there. There can be no exceptions to this.


I agree that I have no way of knowing for sure that they are not emailing each other. She loves the job and doesn't want to quit. I would like to try a VAR. In her purse at work would be key to that. Also under the front seat of her car. 

I believe that nothing is going on. Back at the end of the summer, I emailed the guy's boss, and told his boss all of the things he had said to my wife, and that it was a sexual harassment lawsuit just waiting to happen. His boss called my wife and asked if it was true that he said all these things, and she told him that it was true. His boss was very upset, and took the issue to HR. The OM was actually the one that moved to another building, and my wife was also transferred to a new area. From talking to one of my wife's friends that works with her, she said the guy was pissed that she said anything to the boss, and when my wife tried to say hi to him before he transferred, he completely ignored her.

I am only saying this, because I honestly believe that the EA has ended. I am fully aware that it wouldn't take much at all to start back up, hence my concerns about her work email, but right now I don't think anything is going on.


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## MattMatt

GusPolinski said:


> Another thought...
> 
> Young children and a (possibly serial) cheating wife?


God knows, I didn't* want *to like this but I had to.


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## Hangingon78

GusPolinski said:


> This one...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...?


Yep, that is the one.


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## Rafi

You need to place a VAR in her car then wait and see. The feeling of not trusting is eating you, I know.
In my opinion you need to give her a big shock before she continues what she is doing, as it will for sure. Serve her with the divorce papers, expose to her family and friends... you need to shock her well or you will be rug sweeping. You need to take the high road my friend if you want to ensure your future safely or you will be living a life of doubts and uncertainty.


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## MattMatt

lordmayhem said:


> Oh boy, is this a classic workplace affair or what? Almost word for word out of the cheaters script.
> 
> Considering the amount of texts, this Emotional Affair (EA)has likely progressed into a Physical Affair (PA), especially since OM is local.
> 
> This particular WW can't seem to stop cheating with her male coworkers. It seems all it takes is for some guy to call her gorgeous. Ask Thorburn, that's all it took for his WW to spread her legs for OM. Whoever said flattery doesn't get you anywhere doesn't know a thing about infidelity.
> 
> I seriously doubt that this affair is over, it's probably gone underground. Then there's the typical "he's just a friend" and the "get over it" rugsweeping. This WW isn't remorseful, not one bit.
> 
> Time to investigate further.


Oh, *this* affair might be over. But what about the next one?:scratchhead:


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## michzz

My "favorite" moment of my ex-wife trying to convince me that she was not cheating, it was just dinner with a 'friend" was when she swore on the Bible that her father gave to her that she is not and never would be cheating.

I think she was already moist and ready to go and idiot that I was could not imagine she would swear on a Bible then have that jerk inside her inside of the hour.

Just be very wary about anything she tells you designed to make you disbelieve what you already know.

Start thinking about how you will approach getting the truth out of her and consult with a lawyer about your options.

After that? Sure, try out marriage counseling--we all do. But steal yourself for the road ahead.


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## workindad

OP sorry for the spot you are in. Your wife obviously has no issue lying to you as she has proven. This is very common for cheaters and yes, your wife is a cheater.

You say you don't think it was physical and part of your reasoning is based on what she said. Guess what, she lies, all cheaters do. 

Why do you think she was deleting texts? If there was nothing to them, she would have no need to delete the messages and hide it from you. She obviously knew it was wrong and made the effort to cover her tracks. She is skilled at lying to you.

You are having trouble because her story doesn't add up. She lied and said she'd stay away, yet she went and met her special man in a parking lot. Would you go meet a married woman on the sly in her car just to talk? That puzzle piece is hard to fit.

Tell her you want a polygraph, research where you can get one in your area, know the cost etc. Judge her willingness to take one and call her on it. Give her one last opportunity to come clean in the parking lot. I have a feeling that you are being trickled truth and more will come out, but only if you dig.

Also, make dam sure you have a VAR in her car before you drop the bomb of a polygraph. You can bet that she will likely call someone to vent and this is an opportunity to catch some information as well. Do this on a Friday or when she won't be going to work the next day. That will up her temptation to make a call instead of speaking to POSOM in person.


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## Roselyn

Woman here. Your wife is about 30 years old with 4 children. She had two emotional affairs, you say. A woman of 30 years of age with adult men, just wanting to talk. Are you kidding? These are physical affairs, sex and all. Wake up man! 

DNA your children and see a divorce attorney to protect your legal rights. Don't make her quit her job so that you won't have to pay alimony. You have serial cheater in your hands. Worse yet, meeting her lovers in a parking lot. This is just so cheesy!


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## happyman64

HangingOn

How old are you, your wife and your kids?

HM

PS

You are not crazy. But if you and your wife do not setup strong boundaries in your marriage you surely will be.


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## harrybrown

So did you ever get her to write you a timeline of all her A's?

She should also give you information on her cheating 10 years ago.

And do go see an attorney. 

So what are her consequences and she wants you over this already?

She should be an open and honest book. did you have her get tested for stds?


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## lordmayhem

michzz said:


> My "favorite" moment of my ex-wife trying to convince me that she was not cheating, it was just dinner with a 'friend" was when she swore on the Bible that her father gave to her that she is not and never would be cheating..


:iagree:

Mine did that and swore "God is my witness!". She's all embarrassed about that now. :rofl:

They can swear on the Holy Bible, they can swear on their childrens lives, a cheater can swear to anything to preserve their lie. We see this over and over, yet time and time again, we see a BS here who is convinced that the affair is over because their WS swore it was over and adamant about it. Yet we always see otherwise here.


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## tom67

Get the VAR in the car here is one good one...
Sony ICD-PX333 Digital Flash Voice Recorder ICDPX333 B&H Photo


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## happy as a clam

michzz said:


> What you already know? Apply the iceberg rule: 90 percent is hidden under water.


THIS. Is. A. Gem.


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## GusPolinski

michzz said:


> What you already know? Apply the iceberg rule: 90 percent is hidden under water.





happy as a clam said:


> THIS. Is. A. Gem.


Since Mach isn't here to post this...


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## lordmayhem

happy as a clam said:


> THIS. Is. A. Gem.


Some people don't like me posting my pics, but here goes.


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## adriana

Roselyn said:


> Woman here. Your wife is about 30 years old with 4 children. She had two emotional affairs, you say. A woman of 30 years of age with adult men, just wanting to talk. Are you kidding? These are physical affairs, sex and all. Wake up man!
> 
> DNA your children and see a divorce attorney to protect your legal rights. Don't make her quit her job so that you won't have to pay alimony. You have serial cheater in your hands. Worse yet, meeting her lovers in a parking lot. This is just so cheesy!



I completely agree with Roselyn's post. The OP needs to wake up and face the reality.... he is married to a serial cheater.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Hangingon78, I hate to say this, but her doing the 180 and being so nice to you may be to throw you off the trail. It may also be real.

Try not to get too worked up when we tell you that you MAY not know the entire truth about what she did.

Yes, she may have had a PA, but you don't know for sure right now. So the worst thing you could do is start acting suspicious and getting all squirrely around her.

I think that the only way for you to put your suspicions to rest is to find out for your self. What she had told you when you bluffed about retrieving the texts may have been %100 true. My concern(and I'm guessing yours to) is what she didn't tell you...

If you decide to verify that she's not in another EA by using a phone app, a VAR, or a GPS, DO YOUR HOMEWORK first.

There are people here that are pretty good at the giving best ways to use these tools.

Best case, you confirm that your wife is genuine in wanting to R/stay married. Worse case, you find out otherwise and can prepare the best course of action.

I'm serious about not getting too carried away with the possibility that she had, or is having a PA, or another/continued EA. This will wear you down fast. Right now, you don't know. Worrying about it won't change anything and will only damage your mind and body.

Right now your wife seems to be doing her part. That's all you need to think about unless you find otherwise.


"Be the glass."

Bruce Lee


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## Hangingon78

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Hangingon78, I hate to say this, but her doing the 180 and being so nice to you may be to throw you off the trail. It may also be real.
> 
> Try not to get too worked up when we tell you that you MAY not know the entire truth about what she did.
> 
> Yes, she may have had a PA, but you don't know for sure right now. So the worst thing you could do is start acting suspicious and getting all squirrely around her.
> 
> I think that the only way for you to put your suspicions to rest is to find out for your self. What she had told you when you bluffed about retrieving the texts may have been %100 true. My concern(and I'm guessing yours to) is what she didn't tell you...
> 
> If you decide to verify that she's not in another EA by using a phone app, a VAR, or a GPS, DO YOUR HOMEWORK first.
> 
> There are people here that are pretty good at the giving best ways to use these tools.
> 
> Best case, you confirm that your wife is genuine in wanting to R/stay married. Worse case, you find out otherwise and can prepare the best course of action.
> 
> I'm serious about not getting too carried away with the possibility that she had, or is having a PA, or another/continued EA. This will wear you down fast. Right now, you don't know. Worrying about it won't change anything and will only damage your mind and body.
> 
> Right now your wife seems to be doing her part. That's all you need to think about unless you find otherwise.
> 
> 
> "Be the glass."
> 
> Bruce Lee


This is how I plan to proceed. Right now my wife is doing everything right, and she seems very genuine in wanting to recover. I will do everything I can to be the best husband and father, but I will be on full alert, and put things in place like VAR, and GPS, and do any kind of snooping I can think of. If she ever slips up again, I will consider it strike 3, and will go straight for Divorce. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life worrying whether or not I can trust her.


----------



## Sandie

If you don't find anything how long will you keep snooping?

Months or years?

This no way to live.


----------



## Hangingon78

Sandie said:


> If you don't find anything how long will you keep snooping?
> 
> Months or years?
> 
> This no way to live.


I agree that this is no way to live, but right now it is the hand I have been dealt. I love my wife with all my heart. I will just have to continue snooping until after years of turning up nothing, I begin to trust her again. On the flip side, knowing what I know now. If anything were to start up, I would not reveal anything until I had the whole truth, and then I would bring down the hammer. If there is ever a next time, it would be a deal breaker for sure...


----------



## Noble1

Hangingon78 said:


> ..... I don’t want to spend the rest of my life worrying whether or not I can trust her.



The sad part is that you cannot trust her anymore.

If she is truly sorry and giving her all into the marriage/relationship...it is her job to show you that she can be trusted again.

Good luck.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hangingon78 said:


> I agree that this is no way to live, but right now it is the hand I have been dealt. I love my wife with all my heart. I will just have to continue snooping until after years of turning up nothing, I begin to trust her again. On the flip side, knowing what I know now. If anything were to start up, I would not reveal anything until I had the whole truth, and then I would bring down the hammer. If there is ever a next time, it would be a deal breaker for sure...


It is a crappy hand. The underlying issue here is your W did not suffer any consequences for the first two. There is not much in her mind that will happen if she does it again. My belief that the "doing everything right" is a clever ploy to have you relax and not bother with snooping. Be vigilant to a point.


----------



## Sandie

Hangingon78 said:


> I agree that this is no way to live, but right now it is the hand I have been dealt. I love my wife with all my heart. I will just have to continue snooping until after years of turning up nothing, I begin to trust her again


You choose to stay in a relationship filled with mistrust.

That's not about the hand you are dealt, you can throw down your cards and get up from the table any time you want.

You choose to gamble. Some guys would walk away.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Some people don't like me posting my pics, but here goes."

lordmayhem,

Really?.....I love them.

Especially the Tommy Lee Jones 'Seriously?' pic from No Country for Old Men.

Hopefully we won't be needing that one in this thread.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
Yes, I would find it extremely unsettling.


----------



## ThePheonix

I'm a little late to the party so this may have already been addressed. You don't need to read all 5k messages to see how far its gone. As a general rule, once two people start screwing, they never quit talking about it, especially men; even if she ended it, he's going to act like an astronaut and attempt re-entry. Do the "last in, first read" and see what it reveals.


----------



## jsmart

Hangingon78 said:


> I agree that this is no way to live, but right now it is the hand I have been dealt. I love my wife with all my heart. I will just have to continue snooping until after years of turning up nothing, I begin to trust her again. On the flip side, knowing what I know now. If anything were to start up, I would not reveal anything until I had the whole truth, and then I would bring down the hammer. If there is ever a next time, it would be a deal breaker for sure...


That's an awful plan. She's is going to play nice for a while to throw you off the scent. But she'll lose respect for you for allowing her to rug sweep.

You have to be willing to destroy the marriage or at least convince that you're willing to, in order to save it. I know it's counter intuitive but women only respond to strength.

Years of reading threads here, Loveshack, SI, and MMSL 911 have consistently shown that the men that do a HARDCORE charge toward divorce have women that are begging for a chance to save marriage with action to go along with it. The nice guys, get gaslighting and false R.


----------



## the guy

jsmart said:


> That's an awful plan. She's is going to play nice for a while to throw you off the scent. But she'll lose respect for you for allowing her to rug sweep.
> 
> You have to be willing to destroy the marriage or at least convince that you're willing to, in order to save it. I know it's counter intuitive but women only respond to strength.
> 
> Years of reading threads here, Loveshack, SI, and MMSL 911 have consistently shown that the men that do a HARDCORE charge toward divorce have women that are begging for a chance to save marriage with action to go along with it. The nice guys, get gaslighting and false R.


At the very least take her to the basement and give her a hard spanking.

With out consequences bad behavior continues....granted losing your trust in her is one of the biggest consequences she has to face she still needs to know how serious this is.

Have you looked into a chastity belt? That should bring the point home.

My old lady had a shyt when I was looking for one for her, but she came to term that maybe she needed one.

The reality is the best chastity belt is in our old ladies head. If they plan on sticking around they need to learn the tools to affair proof their marriage. I strongly suggest your old lady get schooled on this a see a shrink that will help keep her marriage and avoid a 3rd strike.

Your old lady need to get rewired or she will surely phuck up again.


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> At the very least take her to the basement and give her a hard spanking.
> 
> With out consequences bad behavior continues....granted losing your trust in her is one of the biggest consequences she has to face she still needs to know how serious this is.
> 
> Have you looked into a chastity belt? That should bring the point home.
> 
> My old lady had a shyt when I was looking for one for her, but she came to term that maybe she needed one.


:lol::lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIEVqFB4WUo
Agh
Freshman year 1981


----------



## Sports Fan

Unfortunately you are now paying the price for your rugsweeping the first time round.

Until this day your wife doesn't get it telling you her actions the last time round are no big deal.

My advice to you would be to make them a big deal and let her know it.

Unless you offer up some real consequences for her behavour things will just get worse.

As for her claims that nothing physical happened altough you cannot prove otherwise only a fool will believe a cheaters word. You will just have to presume that the worst happened and deal with it.

You can either live with it accept it and enforce some real time consequences or you can visit a lawyer and file now.

Either way i'm truly sorry you are here.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Did you expose? Is the OM married? Did she tell you exactly who he is, or is she protecting him? Did she write a no contact letter? Remorse is shown through actions, not words.


----------



## tom67

WorkingOnMe said:


> Did you expose? Is the OM married? Did she tell you exactly who he is, or is she protecting him? Did she write a no contact letter? Remorse is shown through actions, not words.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## weightlifter

It rarely takes more than two weeks to at leAst get additional undeniable red flags if not outright Proof with the standard evidence post tactics.

Badco is one exception but not typical.


----------



## ConanHub

OP. You love her but she does not get it. She is showing no respect for you or remorse for her shoddy behavior.

It isn't much of a marriage but if you're satisfied then so be it but rest assured, she is not motivated to change. You will most certainly get more crap sandwiches served up by your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Suspecting2014

Tell her how you are feeling, and make crystal clear to her that this is a BIG DEAL as this is not the first time.

She is feeling guilty but not remorse! Guilt is when you ask someone else to stop making you feel bad. Remorse is When you ask someone else what can you do to make him feel better about what you have done.

Tell her you need a poly to rebuild trust and get one. Give her a chance to come clean about 10 years go, last affair and maybe others.

Good luck


----------



## LongWalk

Hangingon78 said:


> ... My wife growing up, was a straight laced girl, and could be considered a goody goody. She always got super good grades, and was very responsible. Because of this, I have always believed and trusted everything she says. I could not even imagine her lying to me. She has the type of personality, that she is not afraid to tell you exactly what she is thinking. She can be very blunt, which is one of the things I have always admired about her. I have always trusted her for that reason.
> 
> *Sometimes those who want to moral are itching to have wild monkey sex. Did you ever notice how women dress up to go to church? They are making a sexual display in the house of God.
> 
> Now that you understand your wife's vixen instincts, you need to be philosophical. How can you meet her need for excitement?Read MMSLP*
> 
> Well, a couple years after getting married, she got a part time job at a telemarketing place, and not long after starting there, she said there was a guy there that kept giving her all these compliments, and telling her how gorgeous she is.
> 
> *This was a so-called shyte test and you failed it.*
> 
> I told her that he was no good, and she should avoid him at all cost. Well, a few weeks after this, she is late getting home from work, and her work is only a couple miles away from our home, so I decided to drive over there to make sure her car is there.
> 
> *Your gut is trustworthy. Your wife likes the idea of men considering her beautiful and desirable*
> 
> This was before we had cell phones, and I had no way to get ahold of her at work. Anyway, I pull into the parking lot, and park by her car. After about 30 minutes, she comes pulling into the parking lot in the passenger side of the guys car that she told me was paying her compliments. There was another girl with them in the back seat, and the look on her face was total shock. So she proceeds to tell me every excuse in the book. She said they ran out of work, and there boss let them off early, and that guy and the other girl invited her to go get something to eat. She said it was completely innocent, and she didn’t think I would get that upset. So she tells me that she won’t talk to the guy anymore, and a month or so later, I find out that she was meeting him at a grocery store parking lot, and he would get in her car, and they would talk. She said this happened twice, and that nothing physical happened. Anyway, this was a huge blow to me. * I felt unwanted and worthless as a husband.
> *
> *Understandable but now you need to break this pattern. That is why someone wrote that she needs spanking.*
> 
> I just couldn’t believe that my wife thought this would be okay to do. She said she trusted herself, that nothing would happen, and didn’t think it was that big of a deal. She ended up getting another job, and I never heard anything about that guy again. This was over ten years ago, and we moved on, and I chalked it up as a mistake, and a moment of weakness on her part. At the time we had 1 daughter, and now we have 3 more kids.
> 
> So, fast forward to summer of 2014. *I felt like something was off in our marriage, and was feeling lonely, even when I was with my wife. I started to get suspicious,* and decided to check our phone bill.
> 
> *Your gut still works. Good.*
> 
> I get on our account, and there is a particular number that is showing up on there all the time that I don’t recognize. Alarm bells are going off in my head at this point, and I think to myself, maybe it is one of her female coworkers. So I decide to call the number to see who answers. I call, and a man answers, and my heart sinks. I told the guy that I had the wrong number, and then called my wife and demanded to know who’s number that was. She said it was a guy she worked with, and that he is “Just a friend”. I started digging through the history, and there was over 1,000 texts between them over a 2 month period. Of course she had been deleting all of the texts.
> 
> *It is very likely that he and your wife became acquainted with each others genitals, but you cannot know for sure. You won't blow it next time.*
> 
> I was devastated. Mostly over the deceitfulness, and the hiding stuff from me. It brought back the rush of memories from the incident over ten year ago, only times ten. So, after some craftiness on my part, telling her that I bought some software that could read her last 5,000 texts, and that she had one last chance to come clean before I read everything that was said. She starts telling me all the details, and I really feel like she told me everything she could. I will never believe that I know everything, but because of certain things she said, and the timeline, I was sure that it didn’t get physical. From some of the last conversations they had, it was very close to becoming such, as he was making his intentions clear.
> 
> *His intentions? What about hers? They probably sexted at the very least.*
> 
> So after this discovery, my wife was very remorseful, and said how sorry she was, and that she didn’t think it was a big deal, and that she didn’t mean to hurt me. I was so angry the first day, that I came home and was looking up divorce attorneys. She begged and pleaded for me to give her another chance, and after a few days, I told her that I would be willing to try again, but only under new conditions. I told her that she had to change jobs, so she wasn’t working directly with him, which she did. She now works in a completely different building, although it is the same company. She has not even seen him for the last 8 months, so I am very certain the EA is completely over.
> 
> So this brings me to my actual questions. In the wake of what’s happened, how do I move forward? I can never fully trust her again, and I will always have this feeling that she wants someone else. I can’t stop thinking about the affair. I think about it every day. How do I get to a place where I feel safe again? It just feels like the foundation of our marriage is cracked and crumbling, and I am trying to figure out how to rebuild it, or at least repair it. She is frustrated with me, because she thinks I should be over it by now. One of the things that still kills me, is if I ever bring it up, she will say “It wasn’t a big deal, and he was just a friend”. I told her I can’t stand it when she says he was just a friend. She says I have just blown everything way out of proportion, and what she did is not that big of a deal. So do you guys think I am crazy? Would you be upset in my circumstance?


How is your physical condition? Do you work out, lifting free weights?

Your wife wants strange. If you want to stay with her, you might as well remake yourself, not for her, for you. 

1) Get in killer shape
2) Do things for yourself without asking her, such as hobbies
3) Cultivate your male friendships
4) Don't be a needy cvnt, as the Australians would say.
5) Believe in yourself. Read books so that you feel intellectually stimulated.
6) Do you watch TV? Quit
7) Spend quality time with your children. Not just watching Netflix. Go rock climbing. Fishing.
8) Do not initiate sex with your wife. When she does make it good. Don't be all gooey afterwards. 
9) Don't engage in fruitless relationship discussions but she wants to talk, listen. Learn to listen to her. Keep your mouth shut, unless you have something to say.
10) Don't threaten divorce. If you act, do it.

The important thing is that you cannot live for a happy marriage. You can only be the best you can be and if she wants to join you, then that will a bonus.

Read about co-dependency.

Remember three strikes and she's out.


----------



## Guitarman07

LongWalk said:


> Hangingon78 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... My wife growing up, was a straight laced girl, and could be considered a goody goody. She always got super good grades, and was very responsible. Because of this, I have always believed and trusted everything she says. I could not even imagine her lying to me. She has the type of personality, that she is not afraid to tell you exactly what she is thinking. She can be very blunt, which is one of the things I have always admired about her. I have always trusted her for that reason.
> 
> *Sometimes those who want to moral are itching to have wild monkey sex. Did you ever notice how women dress up to go to church? They are making a sexual display in the house of God.
> 
> Now that you understand your wife's vixen instincts, you need to be philosophical. How can you meet her need for excitement?Read MMSLP*
> 
> Well, a couple years after getting married, she got a part time job at a telemarketing place, and not long after starting there, she said there was a guy there that kept giving her all these compliments, and telling her how gorgeous she is.
> 
> *This was a so-called shyte test and you failed it.*
> 
> I told her that he was no good, and she should avoid him at all cost. Well, a few weeks after this, she is late getting home from work, and her work is only a couple miles away from our home, so I decided to drive over there to make sure her car is there.
> 
> *Your gut is trustworthy. Your wife likes the idea of men considering her beautiful and desirable*
> 
> This was before we had cell phones, and I had no way to get ahold of her at work. Anyway, I pull into the parking lot, and park by her car. After about 30 minutes, she comes pulling into the parking lot in the passenger side of the guys car that she told me was paying her compliments. There was another girl with them in the back seat, and the look on her face was total shock. So she proceeds to tell me every excuse in the book. She said they ran out of work, and there boss let them off early, and that guy and the other girl invited her to go get something to eat. She said it was completely innocent, and she didn’t think I would get that upset. So she tells me that she won’t talk to the guy anymore, and a month or so later, I find out that she was meeting him at a grocery store parking lot, and he would get in her car, and they would talk. She said this happened twice, and that nothing physical happened. Anyway, this was a huge blow to me. * I felt unwanted and worthless as a husband.
> *
> *Understandable but now you need to break this pattern. That is why someone wrote that she needs spanking.*
> 
> I just couldn’t believe that my wife thought this would be okay to do. She said she trusted herself, that nothing would happen, and didn’t think it was that big of a deal. She ended up getting another job, and I never heard anything about that guy again. This was over ten years ago, and we moved on, and I chalked it up as a mistake, and a moment of weakness on her part. At the time we had 1 daughter, and now we have 3 more kids.
> 
> So, fast forward to summer of 2014. *I felt like something was off in our marriage, and was feeling lonely, even when I was with my wife. I started to get suspicious,* and decided to check our phone bill.
> 
> *Your gut still works. Good.*
> 
> I get on our account, and there is a particular number that is showing up on there all the time that I don’t recognize. Alarm bells are going off in my head at this point, and I think to myself, maybe it is one of her female coworkers. So I decide to call the number to see who answers. I call, and a man answers, and my heart sinks. I told the guy that I had the wrong number, and then called my wife and demanded to know who’s number that was. She said it was a guy she worked with, and that he is “Just a friend”. I started digging through the history, and there was over 1,000 texts between them over a 2 month period. Of course she had been deleting all of the texts.
> 
> *It is very likely that he and your wife became acquainted with each others genitals, but you cannot know for sure. You won't blow it next time.*
> 
> I was devastated. Mostly over the deceitfulness, and the hiding stuff from me. It brought back the rush of memories from the incident over ten year ago, only times ten. So, after some craftiness on my part, telling her that I bought some software that could read her last 5,000 texts, and that she had one last chance to come clean before I read everything that was said. She starts telling me all the details, and I really feel like she told me everything she could. I will never believe that I know everything, but because of certain things she said, and the timeline, I was sure that it didn’t get physical. From some of the last conversations they had, it was very close to becoming such, as he was making his intentions clear.
> 
> *His intentions? What about hers? They probably sexted at the very least.*
> 
> So after this discovery, my wife was very remorseful, and said how sorry she was, and that she didn’t think it was a big deal, and that she didn’t mean to hurt me. I was so angry the first day, that I came home and was looking up divorce attorneys. She begged and pleaded for me to give her another chance, and after a few days, I told her that I would be willing to try again, but only under new conditions. I told her that she had to change jobs, so she wasn’t working directly with him, which she did. She now works in a completely different building, although it is the same company. She has not even seen him for the last 8 months, so I am very certain the EA is completely over.
> 
> So this brings me to my actual questions. In the wake of what’s happened, how do I move forward? I can never fully trust her again, and I will always have this feeling that she wants someone else. I can’t stop thinking about the affair. I think about it every day. How do I get to a place where I feel safe again? It just feels like the foundation of our marriage is cracked and crumbling, and I am trying to figure out how to rebuild it, or at least repair it. She is frustrated with me, because she thinks I should be over it by now. One of the things that still kills me, is if I ever bring it up, she will say “It wasn’t a big deal, and he was just a friend”. I told her I can’t stand it when she says he was just a friend. She says I have just blown everything way out of proportion, and what she did is not that big of a deal. So do you guys think I am crazy? Would you be upset in my circumstance?
> 
> 
> 
> How is your physical condition? Do you work out, lifting free weights?
> 
> Your wife wants strange. If you want to stay with her, you might as well remake yourself, not for her, for you.
> 
> 1) Get in killer shape
> 2) Do things for yourself without asking her, such as hobbies
> 3) Cultivate your male friendships
> 4) Don't be a needy cvnt, as the Australians would say.
> 5) Believe in yourself. Read books so that you feel intellectually stimulated.
> 6) Do you watch TV? Quit
> 7) Spend quality time with your children. Not just watching Netflix. Go rock climbing. Fishing.
> 8) Do not initiate sex with your wife. When she does make it good. Don't be all gooey afterwards.
> 9) Don't engage in fruitless relationship discussions but she wants to talk, listen. Learn to listen to her. Keep your mouth shut, unless you have something to say.
> 10) Don't threaten divorce. If you act, do it.
> 
> The important thing is that you cannot live for a happy marriage. You can only be the best you can be and if she wants to join you, then that will a bonus.
> 
> Read about co-dependency.
> 
> Remember three strikes and she's out.
Click to expand...

As a casual observer, and one in a longer, happy marriage (15 years, going on 20 years together) I have to say that this is like a life script for married men and especially fir men with attractive wives. Nice job LongWalk, I could not agree with this post more. 

You have to do things for yourself in order for any woman to find you attractive. Of course we say we all do that, but being codependent can happen over time. 

Reading this post from LongWalk is like a checkup for the marriage for OP, and all of us in serious LT relationships. 

Are you meeting your needs? Are you 'listening' to your partner rather than bringing up useless topics just to hear yourself talk. Are you letting her initiate some? If you are and she's not reciprocating than read LongWalk's post again and apply a strategy from it and learn from your mistakes.


----------



## Marduk

Been there. Do what LW says. Keep D on the table until you feel like you get what you need to R.

Then, therapy.

If not, it will happen again.

It still might, but this path may help change the "will" to a "might."


----------



## LongWalk

I am not sure it will happen again. But mere duty fidelity is no fun. The passion a man and woman feel for each other goes up an down. OP needs to feel that he can address his wife's inner slvt. At least she has desire, which is better than a frigid spouse.

Is she not a good person fundamentally? We don't her well enough to make a judgment, but as long as OP wants to try, then he needs a plan of action.


----------



## 6301

Hangingon78 said:


> I don’t want to spend the rest of my life worrying whether or not I can trust her.


 Got news for you. Your already doing it. Your going to get up everyday from now until whenever wondering if she's where she says she is, doing what she says she's doing, with who she says she's with. You know what that is? 

It's loss of sleep, loss of appetite, maybe a ulcer down the road and then we get to her. She sleeps like a baby, Lives her life in a normal way, and gets away with it by what? Acting like the wife she was supposed to be in the first place while you slowly become a wreck. 

Look if you have doubt, any kind of doubt then the issue is not resolved. It's like putting lipstick on a pig. Still a pig no matter what.

You need answers. She has them or maybe she doesn't but the fact is it's you that needs to find out so if it's me, I sit her down and tell her that as much as you want to believe her, you have your doubts and they need cleared up now and that your making an appointment for her to take a polygraph test. 

Then you tell her if she has nothing to hide and is as remorseful as she claims, then she'll take the test and if she gives you a hard time about it, then you know there's more and then it's time for you to get off the hot seat and put her on it. 

You let her know in a way that she understands fully that she's the one that caused this mess by her behavior, deceit and her lying and you can't live without knowing the truth. Let her know that this wasn't a one time thing, she broke her promise the first time it happened and did it again and it's time for the truth. Either that or let her know that if she refuses then you will seek legal advice.

If it was only the one time then yeah seek out a MC but when she makes the same mistake twice then she has no one to blame but herself.

All in all it's time she steps up to the plate and does the right thing for you and the family. Stop torturing yourself for her inability to behave. Your asking for the truth and nothing else and you deserve it.


----------



## Hangingon78

LongWalk said:


> How is your physical condition? Do you work out, lifting free weights?
> 
> Your wife wants strange. If you want to stay with her, you might as well remake yourself, not for her, for you.
> 
> 1) Get in killer shape
> 2) Do things for yourself without asking her, such as hobbies
> 3) Cultivate your male friendships
> 4) Don't be a needy cvnt, as the Australians would say.
> 5) Believe in yourself. Read books so that you feel intellectually stimulated.
> 6) Do you watch TV? Quit
> 7) Spend quality time with your children. Not just watching Netflix. Go rock climbing. Fishing.
> 8) Do not initiate sex with your wife. When she does make it good. Don't be all gooey afterwards.
> 9) Don't engage in fruitless relationship discussions but she wants to talk, listen. Learn to listen to her. Keep your mouth shut, unless you have something to say.
> 10) Don't threaten divorce. If you act, do it.
> 
> The important thing is that you cannot live for a happy marriage. You can only be the best you can be and if she wants to join you, then that will a bonus.
> 
> Read about co-dependency.
> 
> Remember three strikes and she's out.



Okay, I was out of town for a few days, but I was able to read through everyone’s comments. It seems like the overall consensus, is that this has all been rug swept, and my wife knows that she can just get away with it in the future. All I can say, is that I don’t think she feels this way. Our marriage has been to hell and back over the last 9 months. When I found out about the texting, I exposed to everyone including her family and my family, and even exposed at her work, and like I said in an earlier post, they were both transferred because of the things he said to her. She knows that if this were to ever happen again, that it would be over for us. I made the mistake the other day, of telling her that a couple months ago, I filled out a divorce application, with all of our assets, and child information, and that I was planning on seeing a divorce attorney that Friday, but then I had second thoughts, and didn’t go through with it. I never should have told her about that, but I was just going through a really hard time.

I quoted this particular post above, because I fully agree that I need to go forward improving myself to the best of my ability. I am in good shape, and I am an athlete, but I will take it up a couple notches, and get back into peak condition. I will do everything I can to better myself, and show her that I do not need her. 

I will never know for sure, if anything physical happened, but I can go forward with a mindset of “Strike three and you are out”. I just need to somehow be clear on what boundaries she should have in place, and let her know that I will not tolerate any sort of breach of trust in the future. I cannot stand being lied to, and I won’t put up with it anymore.


----------



## Hangingon78

So in the past I have struggled with Pornography from time to time. Where I will do really good for a few months, and then I will mess up and view it. For example last April I messed up, and also in the November. Anyways, talking to my wife the other night, she mentioned that maybe I pushed her to have Emotional Affairs because of my actions. She then said that she thinks that Pornography is worse than what she did to me. What do I say to that? What do you guys think...Is it worse?


----------



## bfree

Hangingon78 said:


> So in the past I have struggled with Pornography from time to time. Where I will do really good for a few months, and then I will mess up and view it. For example last April I messed up, and also in the November. Anyways, talking to my wife the other night, she mentioned that maybe I pushed her to have Emotional Affairs because of my actions. She then said that she thinks that Pornography is worse than what she did to me. What do I say to that? What do you guys think...Is it worse?


Did you confide in the porn star? Did you tell the porn start that you loved her. Did you text the porn star? Did you get in the porn star's car after work and go for "a drive." Did you have a personal relationship with the porn star? I don't do porn. I never understood the fascination. And I certainly don't know the dynamics of your marriage or any marital agreements that you may have regarding the use of pornography. But in my opinion it is not even close to the same thing.


----------



## lordmayhem

bfree said:


> Did you confide in the porn star? Did you tell the porn start that you loved her. Did you text the porn star? Did you get in the porn star's car after work and go for "a drive." Did you have a personal relationship with the porn star? I don't do porn. I never understood the fascination. And I certainly don't know the dynamics of your marriage or any marital agreements that you may have regarding the use of pornography. But in my opinion it is not even close to the same thing.


:iagree:

Typical *blameshifting*. No Remorse at all. And this is False R if they are trying for it.


----------



## BobSimmons

Hangingon78 said:


> So in the past I have struggled with Pornography from time to time. Where I will do really good for a few months, and then I will mess up and view it. For example last April I messed up, and also in the November. Anyways, talking to my wife the other night, she mentioned that maybe I pushed her to have Emotional Affairs because of my actions. She then said that she thinks that Pornography is worse than what she did to me. What do I say to that? What do you guys think...Is it worse?


Hey Beta guy. Read No More Mr NiceGuy. Work through the exercises.

Good luck.

p.s Your wife is not remorseful and you have rugswept. Her comment that what you did pushed her to an affair... tsk tsk.


----------



## Iver

Looking at porn on the web is in no way shape or form equal to texting some other person repeatedly. Don't accept that narrative for a second.

I'd recommend doing your "due diligence" to make sure this isn't still ongoing. Probably not if your gut is telling you that but get a VAR in her car at minimum. Also get software on her phone for tracking purposes and see what turns up.


----------



## lordmayhem

Hangingon78 said:


> So in the past I have struggled with Pornography from time to time. Where I will do really good for a few months, and then I will mess up and view it. For example last April I messed up, and also in the November. Anyways, talking to my wife the other night, she mentioned that maybe I pushed her to have Emotional Affairs because of my actions. She then said that she thinks that Pornography is worse than what she did to me. What do I say to that? What do you guys think...Is it worse?


Hangingon78, you are in False R. She's now a serial cheater, and she told you that what she did was no big deal, then she blameshifts the affair on you. You say she's remorseful and that she's being nice. That's not true remorse. She does not own up to the affairs. There is no excuse for an affair, if porn was that devastating to her then she should have told you and both of you should have gone to counselling for your so-called thing with porn. That is not on the same level as having an affair with another man.

She needs constant validation from OTHER men. Remember her first affair? All because another man gave her compliments and told her she was gorgeous. She has a self esteem problem, therefore she seeks validation from other men. You can tell her the same thing and it won't mean a thing to her because you're her husband. 

What your WW is, is a cake eater. She wants the security of marriage, but wants to have affairs. You don't even know if this affair is even over.

And you mentioned stopping the lawyer and not going through with the D. All you accomplished by that was to show that you're just bluffing. You just lost even more respect. 

If you rugsweep this, then the only thing that's going to happen is either the affair goes deeper underground OR you are in a holding patter until the next OM calls her gorgeous. Then you will be dealing with OM#3.

But some people have to learn the hard way.


----------



## Hangingon78

lordmayhem said:


> Hangingon78, you are in False R. She's now a serial cheater, and she told you that what she did was no big deal, then she blameshifts the affair on you. You say she's remorseful and that she's being nice. That's not true remorse. She does not own up to the affairs. There is no excuse for an affair, if porn was that devastating to her then she should have told you and both of you should have gone to counselling for your so-called thing with porn. That is not on the same level as having an affair with another man.
> 
> She needs constant validation from OTHER men. Remember her first affair? All because another man gave her compliments and told her she was gorgeous. She has a self esteem problem, therefore she seeks validation from other men. You can tell her the same thing and it won't mean a thing to her because you're her husband.
> 
> What your WW is, is a cake eater. She wants the security of marriage, but wants to have affairs. You don't even know if this affair is even over.
> 
> And you mentioned stopping the lawyer and not going through with the D. All you accomplished by that was to show that you're just bluffing. You just lost even more respect.
> 
> If you rugsweep this, then the only thing that's going to happen is either the affair goes deeper underground OR you are in a holding patter until the next OM calls her gorgeous. Then you will be dealing with OM#3.
> 
> But some people have to learn the hard way.



So where do I go from here? What if her two emotional affairs were never physical? She has said on occasion, that someday I will realize that nothing went on, and I will feel like an azz for the way I have over reacted. 

I agree with you that she is not truly remorseful. I have never felt like she is really sorry for what happened. The feeling I get is more along the lines of she feels sorry that I found out, and she is sorry that it hurt me, but not that she is sorry for what she did. To her it was all in good fun. But to me, it has broken and destroyed me.


----------



## lordmayhem

Hangingon78 said:


> So where do I go from here? What if her two emotional affairs were never physical? She has said on occasion, that someday I will realize that nothing went on, and I will feel like an azz for the way I have over reacted.
> 
> 
> Hangingon78 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, not true remorse. She's using the excuse that she didn't spread her legs for her OM to excuse her affairs as nothing. That's bullsh!t. And EA is still cheating, no matter what she says.
> 
> I've been where you're at. The difference is that my fWW was truly remorseful and busted her butt to earn her chance at R.
> 
> 
> 
> Hangingon78 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you that she is not truly remorseful. I have never felt like she is really sorry for what happened. The feeling I get is more along the lines of she feels sorry that I found out, and she is sorry that it hurt me, but not that she is sorry for what she did. To her it was all in good fun. But to me, it has broken and destroyed me.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel you. I felt the same way. You cannot have Reconcliation without True Remorse. She doesn't get it. She doesn't own it. To her, your feelings aren't worth anything. Reconciliation is a precious, precious gift, and should only be given if the WS is truly remorseful. The fact that she downplays it as nothing, and then blames you for the EAs (if they were EAs and not PAs), is even more troubling.
> 
> Is she still working with OM? And I mean not just in different buildings, I mean in a different job? You can't make her feel remorse, that's the problem. You can only show consequences. You should demand that she go with you to marriage counselling and establish boundaries, and quit her job and find another one. Her reaction will be telling. IF she really wanted to save the marriage and help you heal, she will do those eagerly.
> 
> Mark this down: An unremorseful cheater WILL cheat again.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## bfree

Hangingon78 said:


> So where do I go from here? What if her two emotional affairs were never physical? She has said on occasion, that someday I will realize that nothing went on, and I will feel like an azz for the way I have over reacted.
> 
> I agree with you that she is not truly remorseful. I have never felt like she is really sorry for what happened. The feeling I get is more along the lines of she feels sorry that I found out, and she is sorry that it hurt me, but not that she is sorry for what she did. To her it was all in good fun. But to me, it has broken and destroyed me.


Has she read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? Has she read How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda McDonald? Has she read any of the many books available that have been written for people who actually give a damn? It seems to me that reading a book isn't much to ask for in light of what she's done. Has she done any work at all to help you deal with her betrayal? If the answer is no then what do you think your marriage is going to look like going forward. You do realize that if she had any respect for you it is quickly dissipating because of the way you are dealing with this situation. And without respect there can be no marriage.

BTW, I seriously doubt that her affairs were not physical. You'd better just accept that they were. If you want to find the truth you might have to resort to asking her for a polygraph.


----------



## Hangingon78

bfree said:


> Has she read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? Has she read How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda McDonald? Has she read any of the many books available that have been written for people who actually give a damn? It seems to me that reading a book isn't much to ask for in light of what she's done. Has she done any work at all to help you deal with her betrayal? If the answer is no then what do you think your marriage is going to look like going forward. You do realize that if she had any respect for you it is quickly dissipating because of the way you are dealing with this situation. And without respect there can be no marriage.
> 
> BTW, I seriously doubt that her affairs were not physical. You'd better just accept that they were. If you want to find the truth you might have to resort to asking her for a polygraph.


I have mentioned the Poly, and she absolutely refuses. She says I should know her well enough to know that she would not cheat. She uses her religious background to say that she could never lie to God, and if it would have been physical there is no way she would be in good standing in our church. I told her that if she was willing to lie to me straight to my face all those times, then she is capable of justifying it to God. She says what she did was not immoral. I told her that she broke our marital trust by lying about OM, so she threw the porn card at me again, and said that I lied about porn use in the past, so I am just as guilty of breaking the marital trust, to which I own up to and agree that what I did was not right, and I am truly sorry. 

BTW, she does still work for the same company, and that is partially why I am still triggered a lot of times. I have no way of checking her company email, and there is no way I would ever know if she started talking to him again. Yes, I feel hopeless, and don't know if we will make it through this. She just says I over reacted about the whole situation, and that I should be over it by now.

She asked me again about me filling out divorce papers a few months ago, and said do you think that would have fixed things? I told her that I know it wouldn't fix things, but I don't want to be hurt ever again, and I feel vulnerable, and don't trust her with my heart.


----------



## Dyokemm

"I have mentioned the Poly, and she absolutely refuses. She says I should know her well enough to know that she would not cheat. She uses her religious background to say that she could never lie to God, and if it would have been physical there is no way she would be in good standing in our church."

lol....I love it when cheaters say 'trust me', or I swear on God, kids,etc.

And the creme de la creme......getting offended that you doubt their word.......and this after months of bald face lying to the BS's face during the A.

All I can say is she DESPERATELY wants you to just buy her story and move on as fast as possible,

At least one of these was a PA I suspect.....and based on what you shared it was probably the first if they were not both PA's.

Meetings in the parking lot to 'talk' sounds ridiculous to me.

When I meet someone cause they need to talk or some advice its always in a restaurant or coffee shop.

I would have a hard time buying this story.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> "I have mentioned the Poly, and she absolutely refuses. She says I should know her well enough to know that she would not cheat. She uses her religious background to say that she could never lie to God, and if it would have been physical there is no way she would be in good standing in our church."
> 
> lol....I love it when cheaters say 'trust me', or I swear on God, kids,etc.
> 
> And the creme de la creme......getting offended that you doubt their word.......and this after months of bald face lying to the BS's face during the A.
> 
> All I can say is she DESPERATELY wants you to just buy her story and move on as fast as possible,
> 
> At least one of these was a PA I suspect.


Sigh...:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Good luck.


----------



## lordmayhem

Hangingon78 said:


> I have mentioned the Poly, and she absolutely refuses. She says I should know her well enough to know that she would not cheat. She uses her religious background to say that she could never lie to God, and if it would have been physical there is no way she would be in good standing in our church. I told her that if she was willing to lie to me straight to my face all those times, then she is capable of justifying it to God. She says what she did was not immoral. I told her that she broke our marital trust by lying about OM, so she threw the porn card at me again, and said that I lied about porn use in the past, so I am just as guilty of breaking the marital trust, to which I own up to and agree that what I did was not right, and I am truly sorry.
> 
> BTW, she does still work for the same company, and that is partially why I am still triggered a lot of times. I have no way of checking her company email, and there is no way I would ever know if she started talking to him again. Yes, I feel hopeless, and don't know if we will make it through this. She just says I over reacted about the whole situation, and that I should be over it by now.
> 
> She asked me again about me filling out divorce papers a few months ago, and said do you think that would have fixed things? I told her that I know it wouldn't fix things, but I don't want to be hurt ever again, and I feel vulnerable, and don't trust her with my heart.


An unremorseful cheater that hides behind her religion. Read for yourself, the net is literally littered with cases just like yours. Doesn't matter how religious you think they are, they can still cheat. Look at the newbie thread. My own fWW is very religious, yet she could swear on the Holy Bible itself, say "God is my witness' and lie straight to my face and her mother's own face. 

I doubt you will ever have True R with this woman, she continues to justify to herself that her cheating was nothing. She won't quit her job and find another one to help you heal. Sorry, but I feel there is no hope for this marriage while she is this way and she knows that you won't D her. 

Good luck with the False R, you're gonna need it. This one has absolutely NO remorse.


----------



## Alister

Hi everyone, this is my first post. I am some glad I came across this thread, pretty much a carbon copy of my situation. 
I am curious on knowing more about a recording device, what to buy and where to put it in a car. If I can prove this it will be strike three! Plus she has an iphone 4 she will soon be trading in. When that phone becomes deactivated can I still recover deleted text through itunes?


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## tom67

Alister said:


> Hi everyone, this is my first post. I am some glad I came across this thread, pretty much a carbon copy of my situation.
> I am curious on knowing more about a recording device, what to buy and where to put it in a car. If I can prove this it will be strike three! Plus she has an iphone 4 she will soon be trading in. When that phone becomes deactivated can I still recover deleted text through itunes?


First off sorry you are here.
Here is a good VAR 
http://www.amazon.com/ICD-PX333-Dig...&sr=1-1&keywords=sony+digital+voice+recorders
Now gently...
Please start your own thread and we can help you further.


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## snerg

Hangingon78 said:


> So where do I go from here? What if her two emotional affairs were never physical? She has said on occasion, that someday I will realize that nothing went on, and I will feel like an azz for the way I have over reacted.


If it walks like a duck. If it quakes like a duck. If it waddles like a duck.

IT'S A DUCK.

She's a manipulator. That line of someday you'll realize blah blah blah blah blah.

Pure manipulation bullschmidt.



Hangingon78 said:


> I agree with you that she is not truly remorseful. I have never felt like she is really sorry for what happened. The feeling I get is more along the lines of she feels sorry that I found out, and she is sorry that it hurt me, but not that she is sorry for what she did. To her it was all in good fun. But to me, it has broken and destroyed me.


She most definitively is not sorry that she hurt you.

When people hurt someone, they try to help/fix/heal the person that they hurt. She is blame shifting you. She is gas lighting you. She is not being honest with you


----------



## alte Dame

This is sadly a very classic cheating story, HangingOn. The fact that she hits all the notes means that the people on your thread are able to understand and make predictions.

I, too, would be surprised if it didn't go physical. I would also bet that if you insisted on a poly, you would get either aggressive indignation or a parking lot confession with just enough detail to make you think you've finally gotten the truth. (She could, of course, take the poly, but given her behavior, I really doubt she would.)

You're in the driver's seat for your own life. You can decide what you will tolerate for yourself. She takes this all way too lightly and is definitely not remorseful. She may act sorry that she hurt you, but she has decided that you are hurting too much. Why is that her call?

I would make it a condition of reconciliation that she read the books that bfree mentioned. I would insist on counseling. If it were me, I would insist on a polygraph to test her reactions and to see if other information suddenly emerges from her.

You are letting her rugsweep by making you feel silly for thinking it is 'more serious than it was.' It was more serious. It still is more serious.

I hope you stop letting her call the shots on how her cheating is perceived. She is playing you with that, in my opinion.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

She flat out refused to take a poly. Got p!ssed when you suggested it.

She's blaming you for her cheating, and btw, when she got into the OM's car, I believe that it became more than an EA.

She see's nothing wrong with her past and continues contact with the OM.

You NEVER should have told her you wher reading her emails/texts. That was your ace in the hole. If she had made plans to meet him, you would have know. I myself would have shown up at their rendezvous with a witness and blown this whole thing out of the water.

When you told her you were monitoring her, you laid down your ace and looked weaker in the process.

You can now chase her all you want, but that'll only make her run faster into the other OM's arms(again?...)

I truly feel sorry for you. You seem to shoot yourself in the foot at every chance. I suggest a hard 180, continue with the D and plan for a life after marriage. "Cause from what you've posted so far, I think if you don't file for D now, she's just going to do it sometime down the line.

She's had one foot out the door for a while now. There's not much you can do about that now. You can only control what you do, or don't do. You and you're kid(s) should be your priority from here on out. It's not what you wanted, but it's what what you got.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Oh, if the poly comes up again, tell her that you will take one also. You will answer the same types of questions as her.

Have you conversed in a sexual nature with', have you had sexual contact with', etc..


----------



## Chaparral

Hangingon78 said:


> So where do I go from here? What if her two emotional affairs were never physical? She has said on occasion, that someday I will realize that nothing went on, and I will feel like an azz for the way I have over reacted.
> 
> I agree with you that she is not truly remorseful. I have never felt like she is really sorry for what happened. The feeling I get is more along the lines of she feels sorry that I found out, and she is sorry that it hurt me, but not that she is sorry for what she did. To her it was all in good fun. But to me, it has broken and destroyed me.


Basically she's telling you that watching porn on TV is worse than her hooking up with another man in a parking lot. The reason she keeps this crap up is because you accept such stupid comparisons.

You haven't read the books linked to below. You're flying blind and its biting you in the ass. She's making a fool of you............again and again.

She needs counseling, and if what suspect is true, she can't be helped.


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## Chaparral

So her saving her marriage isn't worth taking a poly. Who didn't see that one coming. The guilty will usually pretend that they will take one as a bluff. With this additional info I would not only schedule the poly but have all my kids DNA tested. Only to show her how little faith you have in her.

You never did say if the last on was married did you?


----------



## bfree

Hangingon78 said:


> I have mentioned the Poly, and she absolutely refuses. She says I should know her well enough to know that she would not cheat. She uses her religious background to say that she could never lie to God, and if it would have been physical there is no way she would be in good standing in our church. I told her that if she was willing to lie to me straight to my face all those times, then she is capable of justifying it to God. She says what she did was not immoral. I told her that she broke our marital trust by lying about OM, so she threw the porn card at me again, and said that I lied about porn use in the past, so I am just as guilty of breaking the marital trust, to which I own up to and agree that what I did was not right, and I am truly sorry.
> 
> BTW, she does still work for the same company, and that is partially why I am still triggered a lot of times. I have no way of checking her company email, and there is no way I would ever know if she started talking to him again. Yes, I feel hopeless, and don't know if we will make it through this. She just says I over reacted about the whole situation, and that I should be over it by now.
> 
> She asked me again about me filling out divorce papers a few months ago, and said do you think that would have fixed things? I told her that I know it wouldn't fix things, but I don't want to be hurt ever again, and I feel vulnerable, and don't trust her with my heart.


So your wife is an unremorseful cheater who lies, refuses a poly to rebuild trust and still works for the same company that facilitated her affair? And what was your question again?

In regards to the poly, she has already proven to be deceitful. The onus is on her to prove she is now telling the truth. Her religion is immaterial. This board is littered with "devout" people who have committed the worst betrayals possible. If she won't take a poly then you must know that she has been having sex with this man for a while now. And yes I wrote has and not had because I do not believe the affair is over. I would also assume that she had sex with the man from her previous affair. This has to be your default position right now and your plans must stem from this knowledge. Any deviation from this is just your own fear. And fear is NOT ATTRACTIVE. When you base decisions or actions (or lack of actions) on fear you are a weak loser in her eyes. Why would she want to be with a weak loser?

Read the books that have been suggested to you. File (refile) for divorce as soon as possible. And stop letting her twist things to her benefit. Porn use is the same as screwing around on your husband and children!? Horse hockey.


----------



## bfree

Hangingon,

My wife and I are Christians. We try to be good people but we know we sin. In my opinion my wife is more devout than I am. After reading what your wife said about how you should believe her and not need a poly because of her religion I was a tad upset. I decided to ask my wife. Her response was that what your wife said she considers blasphemy and "not coming from a place where God's truth rests." My wife said a true Christian who is right with God would have no problem taking a polygraph. A Christian who has done what she has done and has put her marriage and family at risk would not only agree to take a poly she would suggest it. My wife told me to tell you to tell your wife to "enter by the narrow gate." She said if your wife was a true Christian she will know what that means.


----------



## Hangingon78

Chaparral said:


> You never did say if the last on was married did you?


Both of the OM were single. The first OM was in his early twenties, and that was early in our marriage. Now my Wife and I are in our thrirties, and the 2nd OM is around 40, and never been married. In fact he is rumored to be a player. A friend of mine has a sister that works there, and he asked her about this guy, and her imediate response was that he was a huge flirt, and a player.

One thing that always bothered me, was after Dday, she told me about how he would always tell her how beautiful she was. I said “I tell you how beautiful you are everyday”, and her response was that it was different when he said it. She said you have to say it, because you are married to me.

Also, last night she informed me that she never had an affair. She said what she did was not appropriate, but it was in no way and affair of any kind. I said what I have gone through over the last nine months has been devastating, and mentally I have gone through the pains of a full on physical affair. Her response was that it is my fault because I have a big imagination. I have just imagined that anything more than what she told me happened. I informed her, that what hurt more than anything was the feelings of betrayal and deceit.


----------



## Lostinthought61

your response to her should be that for thorns to grow it requires a seed and weather...her actions planted that seed and continuous interactions caused the thorns to grow and become a nightmare for you, your imagination can only expand when there was a lack of ownership of her involvement with this individual. lack of openness leads to a festering of ill will imagination.


----------



## alte Dame

I think you should stop debating this point with her.

Be simple, direct, and confident. Tell her that you have had expert advice, that she absolutely has had an affair, and that you won't listen to any more denials. Either she gets with the program of trying to reconcile by starting to feel some remorse or you will get started with the divorce.

(And don't be diverted by the porn analogy. If you are a normal, healthy human being and not a sex addict, it is not at all comparable to what she has done.)


----------



## summersoul

Please look in the mirror and tell yourself "I am married to a lying, cheating, gaslightning awful wh*ore." Then say "Do I want to be married and spend my life with an lying, cheating, gaslightning awful wh*ore?" If the answer is "Yes" repeat again. Two times a day. Till youre mind is working well.
Sorry it sounds tuff but you will be so much happier after you will get her out of your life. She doesn´t even *****ng deserving to speak even one word to her, man.
Man up, grow some balls. I did and I am so happy right now. No more wondering if she is cheating, no more snooping, no more worries. Feels so damn good...


----------



## naiveonedave

alte Dame said:


> I think you should stop debating this point with her.
> 
> Be simple, direct, and confident. Tell her that you have had expert advice, that she absolutely has had an affair, and that you won't listen to any more denials. Either she gets with the program of trying to reconcile by starting to feel some remorse or you will get started with the divorce.
> 
> (And don't be diverted by the porn analogy. If you are a normal, healthy human being and not a sex addict, it is not at all comparable to what she has done.)


this^^^^^

I think the OP needs to be willing to end his marriage (Divorce), even if he wants to save it. She needs to know there are consequences and her lies and untrue analogies are not holding up to snuff.


----------



## thummper

Hangingon, do you love this woman enough to put up with all the bs she's put you through. Her responses to your concerns are insulting at best. It's all your fault, you know, nothing on her. Have you broached the subject of separation or divorce to her. That might let her know how seriously you're taking all of this. Her refusal to submit to a polygraph, to me, is a very large red flag. I'd bet there's been a lot more going on between her and the om than just chatting. Your life, of course, but this sounds very serious and she's not taking it that way. Luck to you!


----------



## thenub

Ask her to go visit her pastor with you. Let him hear the story let her look him in the eye and say it wasn't an affair


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Hangingon78 said:


> I have mentioned the Poly, and she absolutely refuses. She says I should know her well enough to know that she would not cheat. She uses her religious background to say that she could never lie to God, and if it would have been physical there is no way she would be in good standing in our church. I told her that if she was willing to lie to me straight to my face all those times, then she is capable of justifying it to God. She says what she did was not immoral. I told her that she broke our marital trust by lying about OM, so she threw the porn card at me again, and said that I lied about porn use in the past, so I am just as guilty of breaking the marital trust, to which I own up to and agree that what I did was not right, and I am truly sorry.
> 
> BTW, she does still work for the same company, and that is partially why I am still triggered a lot of times. I have no way of checking her company email, and there is no way I would ever know if she started talking to him again. Yes, I feel hopeless, and don't know if we will make it through this. She just says I over reacted about the whole situation, and that I should be over it by now.
> 
> She asked me again about me filling out divorce papers a few months ago, and said do you think that would have fixed things? I told her that I know it wouldn't fix things, but I don't want to be hurt ever again, and I feel vulnerable, and don't trust her with my heart.


OP
your wife sounds like a real fraud. sounds like she has all sorts of religious training combined with a total lack of integrity.

tell her simply that if she did not engage in sexual acts with other men during your marriage then she should have no concern with saying that to a poly examiner. therefore you will take ANY refusal she has in taking a polygraph to be an admission of adultery...plain and simple. AND act on that belief as well. entertain no counter-argument from her whatsoever. if she wants you to believe "nothing happened" then she takes and passes the test.


----------



## Archangel2

Hangingon78 said:


> I have mentioned the Poly, and she absolutely refuses. She says I should know her well enough to know that she would not cheat. She uses her religious background to say that she could never lie to God, and if it would have been physical there is no way she would be in good standing in our church...
> 
> .


OP - You should look at Pilotranger's thread on CWI. His WW was a "good" little Catholic girl who forced him to convert to Catholicism and insisted they go to a certain Mass at a certain church every week. Turns out she was sexting with one of the other parishioners at that Mass, and the affair had turned physical. Sometimes the most religious are the biggest hypocrites.


----------



## Archangel2

nuclearnightmare said:


> OP
> your wife sounds like a real fraud. sounds like she has all sorts of religious training combined with a total lack of integrity.
> 
> .


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Your situation also reminds me of an old friend who was a parole officer. Whenever one of his "clients" showed up at a meeting carrying a Bible and saying he had "found God," my friend would call the commanders of the precinct where that client lived and notify them to be on the lookout for criminal activity. More often than not, he was right.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Hello Hangingon and sorry you are here. Just caught up with your thread and here are my observations:


Firstly, there is a very high likelihood that both affairs were physical from what you have said. As others have said, opposite sex friends don't jump into cars just to talk! Furthermore, I feel like you know this to be the case but just don't want to admit it to yourself.


There is also a strong likelihood that there were other affairs - these were just the two that you kind of caught. Your wife is a serial cheater and thrives on this kind of attention and the thrill of an illicit affair. She has been getting better and better at lying no matter how much of a goody goody she was in school.


She is the furthest thing from remorseful no matter what you tell yourself. She will never admit to the affairs and tries to turn everything around on to you and porn. There is no comparison with what she has done. Her continuing denial and actions are actually very disrespectful. Again, I feel that you know this but do not want to face these demons because they are a lot tougher to deal with.


With all the evidence gone, there is not much you can do other than go underground and into super stealth vigilance and monitoring - VARs, key loggers, monitoring, PI, until the next incident happens. Do not breathe a word to her or anyone. It's going to be tough on you.


And when you do find something, be prepared to act swiftly and decisively - ducks in a row, secure the evidence, file for divorce, and expose far and wide. And don't believe a word she says - she is a confirmed and skilled liar - worried about her "standing in her church" indeed! And at that point DNA the kids after being tested for STD's for good measure.


Take care and be strong.


----------



## Hangingon78

manfromlamancha said:


> Hello Hangingon and sorry you are here. Just caught up with your thread and here are my observations:
> 
> 
> Firstly, there is a very high likelihood that both affairs were physical from what you have said. As others have said, opposite sex friends don't jump into cars just to talk! Furthermore, I feel like you know this to be the case but just don't want to admit it to yourself.
> 
> 
> There is also a strong likelihood that there were other affairs - these were just the two that you kind of caught. Your wife is a serial cheater and thrives on this kind of attention and the thrill of an illicit affair. She has been getting better and better at lying no matter how much of a goody goody she was in school.
> 
> 
> She is the furthest thing from remorseful no matter what you tell yourself. She will never admit to the affairs and tries to turn everything around on to you and porn. There is no comparison with what she has done. Her continuing denial and actions are actually very disrespectful. Again, I feel that you know this but do not want to face these demons because they are a lot tougher to deal with.
> 
> 
> With all the evidence gone, there is not much you can do other than go underground and into super stealth vigilance and monitoring - VARs, key loggers, monitoring, PI, until the next incident happens. Do not breathe a word to her or anyone. It's going to be tough on you.
> 
> 
> And when you do find something, be prepared to act swiftly and decisively - ducks in a row, secure the evidence, file for divorce, and expose far and wide. And don't believe a word she says - she is a confirmed and skilled liar - worried about her "standing in her church" indeed! And at that point DNA the kids after being tested for STD's for good measure.
> 
> 
> Take care and be strong.



That is pretty much where I am at. I am going to remain vigilant in snooping and watching everything I can. Like I mentioned earlier, I am applying the 3 strike rule, and if she does anything like this again, then I am done.

I do love her with all my heart. We have a great sex life, and a beautiful family. I just cannot live the rest of my life wondering if she is faithful. I have suffered more than I thought possible over this.


----------



## bigfoot

Hangingon78 said:


> That is pretty much where I am at. I am going to remain vigilant in snooping and watching everything I can. *Like I mentioned earlier, I am applying the 3 strike rule, and if she does anything like this again, then I am done.*
> 
> I do love her with all my heart. We have a great sex life, and a beautiful family. *I just cannot live the rest of my life wondering if she is faithful.* I have suffered more than I thought possible over this.


Sir, with all due respect I say the following:

You are not going to do anything with the 3 strikes rule. It sounds good, but the first step to being healthy is to speak truth to yourself. Why 3 strikes? Simply because she only has two. Once she gets 3, you will debate whether it is really a strike or whether it was a significant enough strike or maybe just a setback. It's fine if you do that because it is your life. Still, just be honest about it now. Amazingly, once you get honest with yourself, you can live truthfully, whatever that means. 

As to the last bold quote, it really illustrates my first point. You are always going to wonder if she can be faithful. She's got 2 strikes already, that you know. Next, since you will have this wonder, you are going to look the other way and block things out.

In any event, the real issue is how are you going to live the rest of your life knowing that she might cheat again? That feeling is not going away. You can quiet it, after several YEARS. You can come up with coping strategies when it comes up long after you thought that you were over it. Still, that feeling is gonna be there. Its like when you break your leg and then it aches before a rainstorm. The leg is healed, but for some reason, you can count on it to predict the weather.

I wish you luck, but I think that you are going to have to start by setting more realistic goals and acknowledging the truth of what you really are going to do when things happen. Since you want to work it out, I really hope that you do, for you and your kids. The first step to living well is living truthfully, even if that truth is unpleasant, embarrassing, humiliating, or fantastic.


----------



## happy as a clam

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> She flat out refused to take a poly. Got p!ssed when you suggested it.
> 
> She's blaming you for her cheating, and btw, when she got into the OM's car, I believe that it became more than an EA.
> 
> She see's nothing wrong with her past and continues contact with the OM.
> 
> You NEVER should have told her you wher reading her emails/texts. That was your ace in the hole. If she had made plans to meet him, you would have know. I myself would have shown up at their rendezvous with a witness and blown this whole thing out of the water.
> 
> When you told her you were monitoring her, you laid down your ace and looked weaker in the process.
> 
> You can now chase her all you want, but that'll only make her run faster into the other OM's arms(again?...)
> 
> I truly feel sorry for you. You seem to shoot yourself in the foot at every chance. *I suggest a hard 180, continue with the D and plan for a life after marriage.* "Cause from what you've posted so far, I think if you don't file for D now, she's just going to do it sometime down the line.
> 
> She's had one foot out the door for a while now. There's not much you can do about that now. You can only control what you do, or don't do. You and you're kid(s) should be your priority from here on out. It's not what you wanted, but it's what what you got.


:iagree: with everything above.

OP... my advice:

I STRONGLY urge you to listen to GROUNDPOUNDER'S advice... Also lord mayhem, manfromlamancha, bigfoot, et al. You simply CAN'T go wrong taking advice from men who have "been around the block" a time or two in YOUR shoes... Not to mention GusPolinski, weightlifter, BetrayedDad, and MattMatt.

*Spend some time reading their threads here on TAM. Learn from TAMers who have gone before you. Do NOT make time-wasting mistakes. Especially when all this wisdom is yours for the taking...*

Here's the "180", in case you aren't familiar with it:

The 180

I highly recommend that you read people's comments AFTER the article. See for yourself just how well it works. Namaste...


----------



## BobSimmons

Ahh the three strikes rule..but wait, I thought it was only one strike because she told you herself what she did was not an affair right?

So since it's only one strike, she can afford another strike THEN after that if she messes up she's gone? Right?

Understood. Gotcha!


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

My God...


----------



## thebigheart16

My husband and I went through this in December. I honestly never thought it was an EA. I was just trying to be friends with someone I had known for 12 years. I'm 27 and he is 20 and I've known him and his siblings since they were real little, so I thought no harm here. I was alone for a weekend and going through a really hard time. I had just had a very extensive procedure done to find out if I had cancer or not and he wasn't there. I felt abandoned. I feel it a lot because his friends and the bar seemed to come first. So the friend was there and I would tell my husband every time the friend and I saw each other or hung out talking. I really needed it and so did he, he said his girlfriend was cheating on him. My heart hurt for him seeing his pain. It all never clicked. Finally my husband and his friends confronted me about it and told me the guy had alternative motives and I kept blowing it off because I didn't have motives I just wanted a friend. But after a very bad text to my husband on New Years, it all click and I felt like a fool...he kept calling me to hang out and I yelled at him that I had to be with my husband and he was acting crazy. He text my husband saying "Congrats, you won. I hope your happy with yourself. You're slowly killing her I hope you know." My husband was so upset and angry and he and his friends wanted to hurt him. My big heart said no...We have moved on and things are great. If your wife really meant for it to not go that far I understand that. Sometimes you have to sit back and see what you are doing or not doing. Sometimes we don't get the attention we want from whom we want namely husband and we subconsciously look elsewhere. I'm sorry it is a horrible feeling but from what I did being almost exactly what see did...I felt horrible too. I naively cheated and I regret it all, it makes me sick to my stomach. After the first time that should have been it. I blocked the guys number, Facebook, snap chat, etc. I want nothing to do with him, the pain in my husbands heart can never be erased just lighting.


----------



## Hangingon78

BobSimmons said:


> Ahh the three strikes rule..but wait, I thought it was only one strike because she told you herself what she did was not an affair right?
> 
> So since it's only one strike, she can afford another strike THEN after that if she messes up she's gone? Right?
> 
> Understood. Gotcha!



I get how foolish this must sound, but with both incidents, I have zero proof that anything physical occurred. I said the 3 strike thing, because I have laid out very clear boundaries that she is to have with opposite sex coworkers, and men in general. She has agreed to complete transparency, and I have access to her phone and emails. She was able to play the “I didn’t know that you would be upset” card already. Now she clearly knows where the line is, and if she crosses it, by starting any kind of friendship with someone of the OS, whether it is phone calls, texting, emails, or any other means, than I am through. This has been made very clear. Some might think that I am controlling, but because of the past incidents, this is the precautions she must be willing to take to protect us from this happening again.

The other reason I am going this route, is because right now everything is great. She is a great mother to our children. She is a very loving caring wife, and we have a great sex life, and average 3 to 4 times a week. She meets all of my emotional and physical needs. That being said, after working mentally through this situation, I have come to the reality, that I would be just fine without her. If she ever chooses to betray my trust, then I will walk away from our marriage guilt free, because I have tried to do everything possible to keep things together.

I also still love her very much, and am willing to give her a final chance to show that she is willing to make personal sacrifices to prove to me that she values our marriage.


----------



## drifting on

Ok, I have stayed away as another workplace affair has triggered my anger. I feel the anger has subsided enough to comment here without being angry or rude. She had two, two workplace affairs that you know of. You said yourself she seems sorry to have gotten caught and not for you or her marriage. She is NOT remorseful in any way. You can do what I did and let this eat away at you until you want to die, like me, or you can tell her to shove her excuses up her a$$. Knowing what I know now, and how I only wanted to die, I would go for option two. If you have no proof other then her word, which my WW promised on her grandparents graves, schedule the polygraph.

Tell her the night before and have the divorce papers filled out. Get your lawyer retained and tell her this is the only way to save the marriage. I hate polygraphs personally, but your back is against the wall. You need to show her you are willing to end the marriage to get answers. She is in no way remorseful or regretful, she is simply being nice to rug sweep this affair too. She won't help you heal, huge red flag, my WW at least tried to act like she cared. Your wife is flat out refusing to help, blame shifting, using your porn indiscretion to equal hers. How would she feel if you texted what she did to another female. Would it not be so bad? I can tell you from what you've posted she cheated physically. 

You need to take those rose colored glasses off and see your wife as I saw mine. Can you recover? Yes. Can you trust again? Yes. But this requires some very hard work by your wife, and first is to admit everything which she isn't. You can pm me if you need to ask any questions. Also I will apologize to you for the way this is written. I am in no way trying to blast you at all, but this hit close to home and hard as I try, my anger is coming through. I understand your position, I was in it before, and you will never know if she talks to him on her work phone, meets for lunch, or is still lying to you. That's the worst part, sitting and wondering exactly what happens while she is at work. You could also do what I did and confront the OM but that was my way, and it doesn't always work for everyone. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Well Hangingin78, you should start working on YOU. Start improving YOURSELF. You'd also be wise to have everything in place just in case you ever discover "strike 3" Be prepared, have a plan and if the need arises, EXECUTE said plan IMMEDIATELY.

You've caught her once, she did it again and you caught her again. We don't know if there were more, but I won't be surprised if she does it again.

She will most likely be much harder to catch if she decides to do it again. Burner phones, chat app's, secret emails... Oh yeah, the 2 you know of happened at/through work.

This is where she would most likely try to throw you off her trail. An alternate work email, break rooms and work parking lot are going to be tough things to track.

I hope you're up to the challenge...

In a few years, if all is well and she truly has changed - Please call me out on it with a big "I told ya so". If I'm still alive and posting here, I will gladly eat a large helping of crow.

But I've been here for a few years and I have to tell ya, crow ain't on the menu much.

All kidding aside, I(we) would like nothing more than to see this work out for you. But like I said, I(we've) been here for a while and given what you've told us so far, the deck is stacked agin'ya.


----------



## cgiles

A good book for work on yourself "no more mr nice guy" by Robert Glover. 
It's one of the best self improvement book for men. 

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Then for find out and learn to be happy with yourself, you have the 180list.

The 180 | AFFAIRCARE


----------



## bandit.45

If you can, start stashing away money in a bail fund, just in case you need to go see an attorney and have to pay for a divorce petition. 

I have the feeling you will be filing one before the year is up.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Sadly this is a Fake Reconciliation. 

You will come crashing down hard, because this will not happen in the next few months, but next few years.. It will happen when you think everything is okay..

The next time around you will zero clue because she will improve at her craft of cheating.. She will be fvcking the both of you on the same day.. You will not have a clue, until some sort of trigger that you don't even expect makes you look at something you normally don't do and BAM, your heart will start racing and your life will come crashing down around you.. 

You will be sitting there in so much shock and you will be repeating, but I thought everything was okay.. I thought everything was good with us.. I didn't see this coming.. Why ? What happen ? What did I do ? WTF ?

That's how it hit me.. My Ex wife M.O. was about every 5 to 6 years until the last one.. 

These are all test runs she is doing.. The last one will bring out the most heartless, uncaring person you will ever see.. You won't even know who this woman is.. 

Am I projecting ? Maybe.. 

You better make fvcking sure you really get to the bottom of what is going on with your wife.. 

At the end my Ex wife even had the Marriage Counselor fooled. Utter wolf in sheep clothing and I tell you she was the salt of the earth when things were good.

But in the end, Wow... Utterly crushed me.. 

At least you know with a porn star its just business.


----------



## eric1

This is somewhat Doomsday but it's very likely that the physical affair is continuing. Please think of your children.

Most cheaters do not use protection. If her boyfriend is a player as you have figured them to be then he could have sexual transmitted diseases that are being passed to your wife then to you.

I'd avoid unprotected sex with her until a poly, picture your kids growing up with both parents terminal with some ****ty autoimmune disease.


----------



## Hangingon78

cgiles said:


> A good book for work on yourself "no more mr nice guy" by Robert Glover.
> It's one of the best self improvement book for men.
> 
> https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf
> 
> Then for find out and learn to be happy with yourself, you have the 180list.
> 
> The 180 | AFFAIRCARE



So I started the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy”, and I can relate with a lot of the attributes of a nice guy. I am realizing that I need to work on myself. I don’t have a lot of time to read, because of all the overtime I have been putting in at work, but I am going to try and fit in what I can on a daily basis.

How should I continue to approach my wife in regards to our situation. Should I just shut up and never bring up her EA??? I know it never turns out good if and when I bring up details, or things that are bothering me. 

I have been triggered quite often lately, because I know a lot of actual days last year that she was contacting the OM heavily. For example, when looking back at text records, April 27th of 2014, she texted him like 90 times in one evening while she was working, so yesterday I kept on thinking about things. Those specific dates really bother me, and sometimes my wife will notice that I am not myself. Should I tell her that I am triggered, or just keep it to myself?


----------



## anchorwatch

Hangingon, 

I also agree you will personally get a lot out of Dr Glovers book, which in turn will advance your life, your relationships and your control over them. 

In answer to your questions "How do I move on". If you're not going to use an MC, then there are many books with competent plans that should help you move forward. There is a 'but', it takes two.

Here are a few good ones...

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful 

FWIW, Few marriages survive infidelity. Thinking it's a DYI project and you'll fit it in around work is a mistake. You really should contact a qualified counselor or clergy for guidance. 

Best


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Hangingon78 said:


> So I started the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy”, and I can relate with a lot of the attributes of a nice guy. I am realizing that I need to work on myself. I don’t have a lot of time to read, because of all the overtime I have been putting in at work, but I am going to try and fit in what I can on a daily basis.
> 
> How should I continue to approach my wife in regards to our situation. Should I just shut up and never bring up her EA??? I know it never turns out good if and when I bring up details, or things that are bothering me.
> 
> I have been triggered quite often lately, because I know a lot of actual days last year that she was contacting the OM heavily. For example, when looking back at text records, April 27th of 2014, she texted him like 90 times in one evening while she was working, so yesterday I kept on thinking about things. Those specific dates really bother me, and sometimes my wife will notice that I am not myself. Should I tell her that I am triggered, or just keep it to myself?


Working on yourself is good. Since it keeps nagging you, you need to find out what really happened. Or divorce her....

You cannot go live a miserable life inside, a happy family life on the outside, and then discover it was all fake.

The poly is demanded here. 

But when I tell you that I heard once that in Italy a man and women for only 15 minutes alone in a room were supposed to have had sex....then de deer in the headlight look on her face and the secret meeting later in OM's car tell me she had an affair, and most probably a sexual affair of some kind. 

The last affair was going to be physical, you know that, so that is a well known defence from ww's, to admit the emotional side, and tell 'but it was not physical', or 'it was only kissing', 'just once', 'he tried but could not stay hard', or 'she kept her panties on' etc. etc. I think the odds are it has been physical and there are more OM's in the past.

That she says your 'I love you's don't count because you are married to her and have to say that' is a most horrible thing to say. It means she is not in the loving relation you think you are in. It also means that she wants and got attention and 'love' from other men.....and gets it by giving them what they want...


----------



## Decorum

Hangingon78 said:


> Should I tell her that I am triggered, or just keep it to myself?


Don't say a word!

Once you sweep something under the rug you must never mention it again. You both know its there and have (covertly) agreed to ignore it.

Besides its just your overactive imagination, she did not have an affair (so she says), and she does not feel the need to help you heal.

You may be able to get some drugs from the doctor to help after the depression sets in.

Other than that suffer in silence and keep your misery to yourself.

Have a nice day.


----------



## Hangingon78

It has been about 8 months since I posted on here, but I just wanted to give an update of where I am at, and get some advice on where to go from here. Over the last 8 months we have had our ups and downs, but things have really seemed to stabilize. I am starting to feel like my old self, and I feel more secure in our marriage.

Yesterday I found out that a friend of mine is getting a divorce, because his wife cheated, and while discussing this situation with a coworker, I was informed by my coworker, that a few years back his wife had an emotional affair with her boss, and that he still wasn’t over it, and that they had almost got divorced. Anyway, the reason I bring this up, is because after hearing of these two examples, my soul was very weighed down, and my heart was aching. Last night before we went to bed I told my wife of the two situations, and how sad I was. Here is the email she sent me from work this morning. 

“I love you more than life. I’m sorry for all the pain I caused you. I can’t go back. I can love you with all my heart and be honest and loyal to you. I can just move forward. You are my whole world. You are what gives my life meaning. I am sorry for all the sad stories that have been coming your way, and my heart aches for those people involved. I’m glad we have each other. I love you, and I hope you can have a great day!”

Lately she has been so much more loving and understanding when we discuss this type of stuff. She used to get instantly defensive if we talked about someone who had an affair, or anything of that nature. Now she understands that I am not attacking her, or comparing her, but that I just want to understand how these things happen, and how to avoid trouble in the future. Because of this, she is actually able to talk to me without it becoming a fight. 

Overall, right now I feel very good about where we are at, and I feel like we are actually recovering and moving forward. So, I was wondering if I should ask her to read the book “Not Just Friends” by Shirley glass? A year ago, she would have been defensive and would probably think I was trying to rub things in her face. I think now that she would be more open to it. Is this a good idea? I want to get it to read for myself either way, but just was unsure how to approach her on the subject, without coming across wrong. Any advice? Thanks…


----------



## GusPolinski

So is she still at the same job?


----------



## Graywolf2

Hangingon78 said:


> So after this discovery, my wife was very remorseful, and said how sorry she was, and that she didn’t think it was a big deal, and that she didn’t mean to hurt me.


I don’t think you can be all that sorry at the gut level if you don’t think you did anything wrong. It’s like you grew up eating pork and then converted to a religion where eating pork is a sin. 

You know that you agreed to not eat pork and that you will get into trouble and disappoint people if you’re caught. But if you’re not caught you have no guilt whatsoever about enjoying a little bacon.


----------



## Hangingon78

GusPolinski said:


> So is she still at the same job?


Yes, but he was transferred to another facility after the fuss and commotion I caused, and my wife was transferred to another department. So they don't work anywhere near each other, and my wife works with completely different people. This company employ's more than 90,000 employee's, so they hopefully will never cross paths again.


----------



## Hangingon78

Graywolf2 said:


> I don’t think you can be all that sorry at the gut level if you don’t think you did anything wrong. It’s like you grew up eating pork and then converted to a religion where eating pork is a sin.
> 
> You know that you agreed to not eat pork and that you will get into trouble and disappoint people if you’re caught. But if you’re not caught you have no guilt whatsoever about enjoying a little bacon.


This is all based on the fact that I have no proof that she ever tasted his "Bacon". The only evidence I ever had was them texting each other.


----------



## anchorwatch

Hangingon78 said:


> Overall, right now I feel very good about where we are at, and I feel like we are actually recovering and moving forward. So, I was wondering if I should ask her to read the book “Not Just Friends” by Shirley glass? A year ago, she would have been defensive and would probably think I was trying to rub things in her face. I think now that she would be more open to it. Is this a good idea? I want to get it to read for myself either way, but just was unsure how to approach her on the subject, without coming across wrong. Any advice? Thanks…


Why not? 

BTW, I'll say it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with reconciliation and embarking on a better relationship than the one you had. 

Now that you've got to this point, how about you both read "His Needs, Her Needs" and see how to keep this marriage on a course and take it further than it's been?

Best


----------



## GusPolinski

Hangingon78 said:


> This is all based on the fact that I have no proof that she ever tasted his "Bacon". The only evidence I ever had was them texting each other.


And the first guy?

The one that she was meeting in grocery store parking lots...?


----------



## Hangingon78

GusPolinski said:


> And the first guy?
> 
> The one that she was meeting in grocery store parking lots...?


She worked with him over 12 years ago, and we have since moved far away from that place. I actually hadn't thought about that situation for years until the latest situation happened. Then everything came rushing back.


----------



## GusPolinski

Hangingon78 said:


> She worked with him over 12 years ago, and we have since moved far away from that place. I actually hadn't thought about that situation for years until the latest situation happened. Then everything came rushing back.


Have you revisited it w/ her?


----------



## the guy

I'm glad you got you guys got your shyt together ...it's sound awsome!

I think you guy should talk a little more and see if she is interested in reeding the book. I mean if i get this right should would have never sent you this email a couple years ago.

My point is it looks like she is "growing" or lets say she is maturing with age.....so she is a lot closer to understanding this crap called infidelity so ya *now* is a good time to get her closer to excepting your request in reading the book.

I say you email her when she is at work to ask her if she wants the book. What the hell it seems like she is more comfortable dealing with issues of infidelity when you guys are not face to face...but what the heel it's a start so go with it.

Who knows in time you guys can discuss infidelity face to face once she gets to learning and gets educated. what the hell anything that will help her affair proof the marriage is great!

And it seems like she is so close to start affair proofing the marriage then she was. So kve on it and send her a email requesting her to check the book out.


----------



## the guy

I found it interesting that your old lady was more comfortable sending you an email after talking about cheating when it was someone else. I'm guessing she wasn't dealing with her own issues but someone else phucked up marriage and wasn't so defensive about her own past behaviors.

Good luck with your old lady and I hope she learns the tools to affair proof the marriage.

I hope this answered your question?


----------



## the guy

One more thing feel free to use my favorite phrase...."learn the tools to affair proof a marriage"

Go a head and put it in the email you send her when you ask her to read Not Just Friends.


----------



## Graywolf2

Hangingon78 said:


> This is all based on the fact that I have no proof that she ever tasted his "Bacon". The only evidence I ever had was them texting each other.


What she did was underhanded and wrong even if there was never any sex. She doesn't get that. She's only sorry because she got caught and you got upset.


----------



## the guy

I wonder why she had a change of heart between now (with the heart felt email) and 8 months ago were she would not even want to talk about infidelity...even if it was someone else''s infidelity?


----------



## Divinely Favored

Hangingon78 said:


> Graywolf2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don?t think you can be all that sorry at the gut level if you don?t think you did anything wrong. It?s like you grew up eating pork and then converted to a religion where eating pork is a sin.
> 
> You know that you agreed to not eat pork and that you will get into trouble and disappoint people if you?re caught. But if you?re not caught you have no guilt whatsoever about enjoying a little bacon.
> 
> 
> 
> This is all based on the fact that I have no proof that she ever tasted his "Bacon". The only evidence I ever had was them texting each other.
Click to expand...

Poly could help put your mind at ease about that.


----------



## sidney2718

Divinely Favored said:


> Poly could help put your mind at ease about that.


I think that the time has come to stop picking on the OP. They seem to be in a good place. Why not let them enjoy their situation. If she screws up again, he'll know.

As for the poly, don't go near it. Poly does NOT work. Courts won't allow it and the failure rate is very high. The last thing the OP needs is to have his wife flunk a poly test when she's really innocent.

Don't take my word for this. Google is your friend. A polygraph test is not your friend.


----------



## Hangingon78

Thank you everyone for your insight. I am at work, and really don't have time to answer everyone's questions individually. I do really like some of the points that were brought up. Over all, I really do feel like she has come a long way in the last two years. She seems to recognize that what she did was wrong, and she seems very sorry and sincere now. It doesn't feel like she is just sorry that she got caught, it seems like she sees now how truly hurtful her actions were to our marriage, and I feel her sincere desire to fix things.

Two years ago, when this whole mess started, she threw a tizzy fit when I mentioned that I was not comfortable with her talking to her boss at work, and that they should never talk about anything personal. She acted like I was a jealous controlling jerk, and that I had no right to disapprove of her having a "Friend". When we talk about friends of the opposite sex now, she says than she understands now why it is such a bad idea, and she understands how important boundaries are. She has matured a lot in this area.

Bottom line is that I actually am starting to feel a sense of security, and feel like she is fully invested in our marriage. I am going to do as suggested by someone, and invite her to read "Not Just Friends" with me, as a learning tool, of how we can affair proof our marriage. We are about 18 months into recovery, and I really do believe when people on here say that it will take 2 to 5 years. I am starting to see a ray of hope, that if we continue on this path, we can be fully recovered, but I am still not naive enough to think we are home free. Our marriage now is on a brittle foundation that will take years to fully solidify.


----------



## bfree

The foundation may be brittle but it sounds like it's at least no longer crumbling.


----------



## JohnA

Yes ask her to read it and read it yourself. This is in many ways the tone of the box. 

well a city boy goes for a hike and gets bit by a rattler.


The following year he goes for a hike and gets bit by a rattler.
So his county friend says "you know it is odd you got bit twice. Usually a rattler warns you to back of before it strikes. Why didn't you just back off? City boy says rattle what rattle? 

Next year city boy and country boy go for a walk with county boy leading. They hear a rattler county boy jumps back ten feet and turns to see if city is ok. City is gone, no where to be found. So county starts to track him. He finally catches up to city two counties over and city is looking to add one more county for good measure.


----------



## Decorum

Early remorse is often fear of loss as a result of getting caught.

When the wayward begins to realize what a gift reconciliation really is, genuine guilt and overwhelming remorse may follow.

In other words true remorse is sometimes cumulative. In a safe environment where she can actually look at and face the damage she caused she may have learned and grown from the experience. Lets hope so.

What about the (likely) case that she has not been fully honest about her affair?

That could be a matter of a weakness of character (fear of consequences), and not necessarily an indication of a lack or remorse.

She may truly know enough of the pain involved to never go there again, and she may truly love the OP.

There may be no secret longing for someone else or the excitement of the illicit experience.

This is best case and the most positive spin I can apply. Again lets hope its true.

If so she is now forced to compartmentalize the truth of the actual events with whatever justifications work for her.

This is not the best practice for her mental health.
As the relationship improves it will be harder to keep the compartment closed.

She has limited the intimacy of your marriage in a significant way because now the two of you can never honestly go there together.

She may be broken enough as a peson that it will never become an issue anyway.

If not be aware that guilt often shows up as blame, and blame as bitterness. If she cant bring herself to direct it at you she may direct it at herself.

If that happenes go to the root, provide a safe enviroment and help her to honestly face and move on from what she has done.

It sounds like you have the love and commitment to do whatever it takes to make it work. Thats golden! I respect that.

Maybe in all your pain and searching in this you have found a nut, crack it open and enjoy it, lord knows you deserve it.

I really do wish you both well.
Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Voltaire2013

Hangingon78 said:


> Thank you everyone for your insight. I am at work, and really don't have time to answer everyone's questions individually. I do really like some of the points that were brought up. Over all, I really do feel like she has come a long way in the last two years. She seems to recognize that what she did was wrong, and she seems very sorry and sincere now. It doesn't feel like she is just sorry that she got caught, it seems like she sees now how truly hurtful her actions were to our marriage, and I feel her sincere desire to fix things.
> 
> Two years ago, when this whole mess started, she threw a tizzy fit when I mentioned that I was not comfortable with her talking to her boss at work, and that they should never talk about anything personal. She acted like I was a jealous controlling jerk, and that I had no right to disapprove of her having a "Friend". When we talk about friends of the opposite sex now, she says than she understands now why it is such a bad idea, and she understands how important boundaries are. She has matured a lot in this area.
> 
> Bottom line is that I actually am starting to feel a sense of security, and feel like she is fully invested in our marriage. I am going to do as suggested by someone, and invite her to read "Not Just Friends" with me, as a learning tool, of how we can affair proof our marriage. We are about 18 months into recovery, and I really do believe when people on here say that it will take 2 to 5 years. I am starting to see a ray of hope, that if we continue on this path, we can be fully recovered, but I am still not naive enough to think we are home free. Our marriage now is on a brittle foundation that will take years to fully solidify.



You have frequently mentioned how much you love her. After all of this have you found time to love you? I wish you all the best. 

Cheers,
V(13)


----------



## Divinely Favored

sidney2718 said:


> Divinely Favored said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poly could help put your mind at ease about that.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the time has come to stop picking on the OP. They seem to be in a good place. Why not let them enjoy their situation. If she screws up again, he'll know.
> 
> As for the poly, don't go near it. Poly does NOT work. Courts won't allow it and the failure rate is very high. The last thing the OP needs is to have his wife flunk a poly test when she's really innocent.
> 
> Don't take my word for this. Google is your friend. A polygraph test is not your friend.
Click to expand...


Courts won't allow it because it can be messed with by people taking psych drugs before it. They can deceive it to get inconclusive results. If the examiner is worth a crap they can tell you something is off with 7th e person. 

I always advocate giving spouse a UA before test to make sure they have not taken anything.

I scheduled 12 polys last month in my office. And we send people back to lockup based on results from polygraph.


----------



## Hangingon78

Update on my situation. A lot has happened since the last time I posted here. Back in December I mentioned my wife and I reading the book “Not just friends”… we did that, and then we read the book “His needs her needs” . We had some great discussions after reading these two books, and I felt that we were really making some progress. Then I went and did something really stupid... I had an affair…

At my work we have an “IT” department that helps us with computer issues, and one day there was a girl who helped me with my lap top. Afterwards I emailed her thanking her for being so nice, and I told her that she seemed like a really cool person. From there we really hit it off and you can only guess what happened. To make a long story short we began emailing on pretty much a daily basis, and got into details of our personal lives, including me telling her about my wife’s past Emotional affairs. 

After a couple weeks I asked her to send me a picture, because I had no idea what she looked like. She sent me a picture, and I told her that she was very pretty, and then I sent her a picture of myself. Then we talked about meeting each other in person. We both agreed that it probably wouldn’t be a good idea since we were already attracted to each other. At this point I was aware that what I was doing was not right, and that I should stop. I began to justify things in my mind, and blame shift things in my mind back on my wife. I began to be very angry towards her for the emotional affair that she had with her boss. Ironic I know right? 

So a little time had passed that we had said that we should never meet in person, and on the 24th of February, I was having a particularly terrible day, because it was that day two years ago, that my wife began texting her boss. So I emailed this OW, and asked her if we could meet in person. I told her that I was having a bad day, and that I would really like to meet her. So I drove to her work which is about 4 miles from my work. The company I work for Contracts out their IT service, so she works at another facility. We met for only about 5 minutes. I sat in my car, and she stayed outside. I actually invited her to sit in my car, but she said that wouldn’t be a good idea. We ended up meeting another time like this, and then nothing for a couple weeks. Then one day I told her that I would like to meet her away from her work. We ended up meeting at a Walmart parking lot for about 10 minutes, and at the end of our conversation I hugged her, and smelled her neck. Afterwards we pretty much expressed to each other that we were very attracted to each other, and that we needed to be very careful. At this point we began texting each other. The next week I wanted to meet her again, but she couldn’t, so I asked her if she would send me another picture, but this time a little lower. She ended up sending me a picture of her breasts. 

Things began to escalate after this, and we began having conversations about how we needed to stop because we didn’t want our families to get hurt. I ended up going to her office after work one day, and sitting next to her at her desk. She took a service call, and while she was on the phone I started teasing her by rubbing her legs, and then I kissed the back of her neck. After this I left her office. The day after this meeting, through text messages I asked her what she thought about me kissing her on the mouth. She told me that it wouldn’t be a good idea, because we were already way too emotionally involved. I agreed to back off a bit, but told her I still wanted to come see her again at her office. I went there after work again, but this time I kept my hands to myself, and we just talked for about 20 minutes. When I left her office, on the drive home, I felt really horrible. I felt extremely guilty for getting myself in this mess. I felt like such a hypocrite because of how hurt I had been in the past by my wife. So I made a resolve in my mind that evening, that I was going to end things with her. I remember thinking that evening, about whether or not I should tell my wife. I was too afraid of the hurt that would cause her, so I just shut it out of my mind. I went to bed that night feeling very troubled and confused.

Next thing I know my wife is shaking me awake, and asking me what was on my phone? She started reading some of the texts between us. She read some of the stuff about me being so tempted to kiss her. I woke up in complete panic. I took the phone out of her hands, and immediately started deleting texts. It didn’t matter, because the cat was out of the bag. She was crying and shaking. It was a very long ugly night. It felt like a bad dream. I felt so horrible for letting things get that far. I told my wife that I was going to end it, and that I would not contact her again. Well, the next day I told the OW what was going on. My wife asked if I contacted her at all, and I lied and said no. That weekend we drafted a no contact email and sent it to her. A few days after that my wife kept asking me if I had warned her or contacted her at all before we sent the No contact email. I felt so guilty for lying to her, and so this time I told her the truth, and she was devastated. 

After this I decided that if I really wanted to fix this, then I needed to tell my wife everything. I sent her all the email exchanges between myself and the OW. I had deleted the text messages, but I filled her in on every detail I could possibly think of. Even the stuff that I knew would hurt her the most. I told her everything, including the breast picture she sent me, which she never would have known about. I just wanted to get everything out there, and give us a chance at rebuilding. It has been about 8 weeks since D-day. I have not contacted the OW at all. My wife ended up calling the OW at her office the next week, and talking to her for about 20 minutes. There has been a lot of tears shed from both of us.

I know it may seem like I did this to get her back for her past emotional affairs, but that is not the case. I didn’t do it to intentionally hurt my wife. I feel like I let down my boundaries because of my wife’s lack of boundaries. In the past there is no way that I would have emailed another female in a casual manner like that, but in my mind I kind of thought…”Why should I be so careful, if she’s not”… and that is where I started down the slippery slope of infidelity. Looking back now, I wonder what I was even thinking, because I see that I really didn’t even like the OW that much, but I made up some fantasy in my head, that built her up to be something that she wasn’t. For example, she is not near as pretty as my wife. My wife is absolutely beautiful. It is almost like I was using her to feel wanted in a way. Ever since my wife had her first affair, I felt like she didn’t really want me. It didn’t matter who this OW was, It was just the feeling of being wanted again that made me feel like a million bucks. I feel really bad about that, and I have no desire to ever contact the OW again.

So, where are we now 8 weeks later? We have good days and bad days. We have discovered that we can’t bring up the “Affairs” at all, because it always ends up with us comparing. If I bring up some of the stuff that happened with her boss or the other guy, she gets really upset, and starts telling me that my situation was so much worse, and then I start bringing up reasons why I think her affairs were so much worse. Anyway we have decided that we just cannot talk about certain things. We have become very close over the last 8 weeks. We have been going through what I have heard on this site is called, Hysterical bonding. She wants to have sex with me all the time. The first couple weeks she kept saying… “I don’t know what’s wrong with me, but I just want to have sex all the time???”… 

Bottom line is I was very selfish and stupid. I am very sorry for what I did. I feel horrible, and I want to make things right. I just thought I would throw this update out there to let everyone know where my situation is.


----------



## 225985

Stop comparing. They are both equally bad.

So it looks like the score is even. You both did selfish things. I really think you both will get through this ok. Good luck.


----------



## MattMatt

Hangingon78 said:


> Update on my situation. A lot has happened since the last time I posted here. Back in December I mentioned my wife and I reading the book “Not just friends”… we did that, and then we read the book “His needs her needs” . We had some great discussions after reading these two books, and I felt that we were really making some progress. Then I went and did something really stupid... I had an affair…
> 
> At my work we have an “IT” department that helps us with computer issues, and one day there was a girl who helped me with my lap top. Afterwards I emailed her thanking her for being so nice, and I told her that she seemed like a really cool person. From there we really hit it off and you can only guess what happened. To make a long story short we began emailing on pretty much a daily basis, and got into details of our personal lives, including me telling her about my wife’s past Emotional affairs.
> 
> After a couple weeks I asked her to send me a picture, because I had no idea what she looked like. She sent me a picture, and I told her that she was very pretty, and then I sent her a picture of myself. Then we talked about meeting each other in person. We both agreed that it probably wouldn’t be a good idea since we were already attracted to each other. At this point I was aware that what I was doing was not right, and that I should stop. I began to justify things in my mind, and blame shift things in my mind back on my wife. I began to be very angry towards her for the emotional affair that she had with her boss. Ironic I know right?
> 
> So a little time had passed that we had said that we should never meet in person, and on the 24th of February, I was having a particularly terrible day, because it was that day two years ago, that my wife began texting her boss. So I emailed this OW, and asked her if we could meet in person. I told her that I was having a bad day, and that I would really like to meet her. So I drove to her work which is about 4 miles from my work. The company I work for Contracts out their IT service, so she works at another facility. We met for only about 5 minutes. I sat in my car, and she stayed outside. I actually invited her to sit in my car, but she said that wouldn’t be a good idea. We ended up meeting another time like this, and then nothing for a couple weeks. Then one day I told her that I would like to meet her away from her work. We ended up meeting at a Walmart parking lot for about 10 minutes, and at the end of our conversation I hugged her, and smelled her neck. Afterwards we pretty much expressed to each other that we were very attracted to each other, and that we needed to be very careful. At this point we began texting each other. The next week I wanted to meet her again, but she couldn’t, so I asked her if she would send me another picture, but this time a little lower. She ended up sending me a picture of her breasts.
> 
> Things began to escalate after this, and we began having conversations about how we needed to stop because we didn’t want our families to get hurt. I ended up going to her office after work one day, and sitting next to her at her desk. She took a service call, and while she was on the phone I started teasing her by rubbing her legs, and then I kissed the back of her neck. After this I left her office. The day after this meeting, through text messages I asked her what she thought about me kissing her on the mouth. She told me that it wouldn’t be a good idea, because we were already way too emotionally involved. I agreed to back off a bit, but told her I still wanted to come see her again at her office. I went there after work again, but this time I kept my hands to myself, and we just talked for about 20 minutes. When I left her office, on the drive home, I felt really horrible. I felt extremely guilty for getting myself in this mess. I felt like such a hypocrite because of how hurt I had been in the past by my wife. So I made a resolve in my mind that evening, that I was going to end things with her. I remember thinking that evening, about whether or not I should tell my wife. I was too afraid of the hurt that would cause her, so I just shut it out of my mind. I went to bed that night feeling very troubled and confused.
> 
> Next thing I know my wife is shaking me awake, and asking me what was on my phone? She started reading some of the texts between us. She read some of the stuff about me being so tempted to kiss her. I woke up in complete panic. I took the phone out of her hands, and immediately started deleting texts. It didn’t matter, because the cat was out of the bag. She was crying and shaking. It was a very long ugly night. It felt like a bad dream. I felt so horrible for letting things get that far. I told my wife that I was going to end it, and that I would not contact her again. Well, the next day I told the OW what was going on. My wife asked if I contacted her at all, and I lied and said no. That weekend we drafted a no contact email and sent it to her. A few days after that my wife kept asking me if I had warned her or contacted her at all before we sent the No contact email. I felt so guilty for lying to her, and so this time I told her the truth, and she was devastated.
> 
> After this I decided that if I really wanted to fix this, then I needed to tell my wife everything. I sent her all the email exchanges between myself and the OW. I had deleted the text messages, but I filled her in on every detail I could possibly think of. Even the stuff that I knew would hurt her the most. I told her everything, including the breast picture she sent me, which she never would have known about. I just wanted to get everything out there, and give us a chance at rebuilding. It has been about 8 weeks since D-day. I have not contacted the OW at all. My wife ended up calling the OW at her office the next week, and talking to her for about 20 minutes. There has been a lot of tears shed from both of us.
> 
> I know it may seem like I did this to get her back for her past emotional affairs, but that is not the case. I didn’t do it to intentionally hurt my wife. I feel like I let down my boundaries because of my wife’s lack of boundaries. In the past there is no way that I would have emailed another female in a casual manner like that, but in my mind I kind of thought…”Why should I be so careful, if she’s not”… and that is where I started down the slippery slope of infidelity. Looking back now, I wonder what I was even thinking, because I see that I really didn’t even like the OW that much, but I made up some fantasy in my head, that built her up to be something that she wasn’t. For example, she is not near as pretty as my wife. My wife is absolutely beautiful. It is almost like I was using her to feel wanted in a way. Ever since my wife had her first affair, I felt like she didn’t really want me. It didn’t matter who this OW was, It was just the feeling of being wanted again that made me feel like a million bucks. I feel really bad about that, and I have no desire to ever contact the OW again.
> 
> So, where are we now 8 weeks later? We have good days and bad days. We have discovered that we can’t bring up the “Affairs” at all, because it always ends up with us comparing. If I bring up some of the stuff that happened with her boss or the other guy, she gets really upset, and starts telling me that my situation was so much worse, and then I start bringing up reasons why I think her affairs were so much worse. Anyway we have decided that we just cannot talk about certain things. We have become very close over the last 8 weeks. We have been going through what I have heard on this site is called, Hysterical bonding. She wants to have sex with me all the time. The first couple weeks she kept saying… “I don’t know what’s wrong with me, but I just want to have sex all the time???”…
> 
> Bottom line is I was very selfish and stupid. I am very sorry for what I did. I feel horrible, and I want to make things right. I just thought I would throw this update out there to let everyone know where my situation is.


A revenge affair. With someone who was nowhere near as attractive as your wife?

That sounds exactly like what I did.

Everyone is capable of doing really stupid and hurtful stuff.

Especially after it has been done to them, first.

I hope and trust that you can both get through this mess. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BobSimmons

* I feel like I let down my boundaries because of my wife’s lack of boundaries.*

Nah you did it because you wanted to and while you were doing it you knew it was wrong.

You're a BS you should know. Every choice is a calculated decision.

You have zero excuses.


----------



## Satya

Is it just me or does anyone else feel this story is unbelievable?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

*Back in December I mentioned my wife and I reading the book “Not just friends”… we did that, and then we read the book “His needs her needs” . *


Yes, you knew exactly what you were doing.


----------



## sideways

Just read this entire thread for the first time. The first thought that popped into my mind was I sure feel for your kids. WOW!!!


----------



## Hangingon78

BobSimmons said:


> * I feel like I let down my boundaries because of my wife’s lack of boundaries.*
> 
> Nah you did it because you wanted to and while you were doing it you knew it was wrong.
> 
> You're a BS you should know. Every choice is a calculated decision.
> 
> You have zero excuses.


I know I have no excuses. I knew right from the beginning that I shouldn’t be emailing this OW. So again you are right, I did want it. I wanted to feel like someone wanted me. When this was happening I never viewed it as a Revenge affair, but looking back now, and all the anger I felt towards my wife for her past Affairs, it fueled the fires of Justification. I guess in a sense, it was a Revenge affair. I don’t know? 

What I do know, is that the last 8 weeks, I finally feel like my wife wants me. I have not felt wanted for over 17 years, and it feels absolutely wonderful. After all this time, I feel like her “Man” again. It feels like she finally woke up and realized that she could lose me. We have never had better sex than this. She attacks me like she has never done before.


----------



## Hangingon78

Satya said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else feel this story is unbelievable?


What is so unbelievable? It’s hard to sum everything up in one post. There are many more details to this story. This was just a short explanation of the events of the last 6 months. 

Like I explained in a post last year. There are a few details on my original post, that I changed a little because I didn’t want anyone that I know to realize that it was me posting. I have since then got to a place in my life that I don’t care anymore. For example I said originally that we were married 12 years, but really at the time of my wife’s affair with her boss, we had been married 17 years. I said we had 4 kids, but really we have 6. I mentioned my wife had an emotional affair with a coworker, but it was really her boss. The point is that I did change a few of the logistics, but I can assure you the story is true. Believe me, I am the first one that wishes it wasn’t.

A few more details for those who care to know. My wife and I will have been married 20 years next month. When we got married, she was 19, and I was 17. My dad had to sign the marriage license. As you probably guessed, the reason for getting married that young, was because she was pregnant. My beautiful daughter is now 19 years old, and going to college. She is amazing, and beautiful. 

The point is… Believe what you want to believe. I came here originally, because I was lost and needed support and guidance. I have made a lot of mistakes along the way, but I am grateful for the things I have learned from this forum.


----------



## Hangingon78

sideways said:


> Just read this entire thread for the first time. The first thought that popped into my mind was I sure feel for your kids. WOW!!!


Okay… despite the mistakes my wife and I have made, we have somehow managed to raise some wonderful kids. You have to understand that this post is framing some of the extreme lows of our marriage. We have had a lot of good times also. I wish I could post a family picture on here, because you would see that we have 6 beautiful, strong, happy children. They are amazing, and I have no idea how they turned out so good. We have always put God first in our home. We have been going to church weekly for our whole marriage, and I truly believe that my kids are as good as they are, because God has blessed them…. Not because of their imperfect parents. Bottom line is…I sure feel for my kids too… They have definitely had to endure some rough times watching their mom and dad struggle to rebuild their marriage, but I am hopeful that they are learning some valuable lessons that will help them in their future marriages.


----------



## KJ_Simmons

I don't get it....you know first hand how much it hurts, yet you turned around and did the same thing?

Forgive me, but I think you two aren't really meant to be together. There are some voids that it appears neither of you can fill in the other.

I hope this doesn't turn into a vicious cycle for you guys.


----------



## ThePheonix

You're both on a level playing field now so just shut up about it. You spent month twisting in the wind about whether or not your old lady actually f'ed the guy(s) and it caught up with you pursuing this other chick. 
Its a shame you lured the other girl into this and than jerked the rug out from under her by ratting her out to your wife to make her the "whipping boy" of sorts. Personally, rather than guilt, I think you confess to your wife to let her know two can play that game. 
BTW, you never ask a girl if you can kiss her. Its all in the body language my man.


----------



## Marduk

If you both want to stay together, I would use your knowledge about what it's like to be a cheater to empathize with your wife.

And I'd encourage her new knowledge about what it's like to be cheated on to empathize with you.

Although, at this point, it's so tangled I don't know how you'd get through the whole sordid mess.


----------



## ivory

Satya said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else feel this story is unbelievable?


HurtDude may or may not...


----------



## ThePheonix

Satya said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else feel this story is unbelievable?


Naw. But regardless, its fun to play.


----------



## takingit1day

Hey Hangingon78. It took a lot of courage to come back and update everyone on what's been happening of late.
Affairs, emotional or physical can be devastating to a marriage. I've been there. My discovery day was 3/18/2015 and my husband had an affair with a co-worker. It is a real roller-coaster of emotions and damages the trust as well as is almost impossible to get over. 

You and your wife have hurt each other in a way that has truly tested your love and marriage; for better or for worse as they say. Only advice is to learn from the mistakes you both have made and do not repeat them. 

If you both are truly dedicated to recovery and each other, you have to build boundaries...around yourselves. Noone can truly stop another from cheating if they want to cheat, but you can stop yourself. You have to have the mindset that you won't do it and then don't do it.

Talk openly about why the breakdown happened between you and your wife and build from there. It can be done. In my case, my husband took for granted that I would always be there and he could live as he wanted to. After his EA we split for a short time and slowly worked through the issues. Today we are committed to us.

It can be done.


----------



## happydad

Now I know why your wife had EA's, you are as wishy washy as they come.


----------



## GusPolinski

Hangingon78 said:


> Okay… despite the mistakes my wife and I have made, we have somehow managed to raise some wonderful kids. You have to understand that this post is framing some of the extreme lows of our marriage. We have had a lot of good times also. I wish I could post a family picture on here, because you would see that we have 6 beautiful, strong, happy children. They are amazing, and I have no idea how they turned out so good. *We have always put God first in our home.* We have been going to church weekly for our whole marriage, and I truly believe that my kids are as good as they are, because God has blessed them…. Not because of their imperfect parents. Bottom line is…I sure feel for my kids too… They have definitely had to endure some rough times watching their mom and dad struggle to rebuild their marriage, but I am hopeful that they are learning some valuable lessons that will help them in their future marriages.


Nope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Hangingon78 said:


> I know I have no excuses. I knew right from the beginning that I shouldn’t be emailing this OW. So again you are right, I did want it.* I wanted to feel like someone wanted me. * When this was happening I never viewed it as a Revenge affair, but looking back now, and all the anger I felt towards my wife for her past Affairs, it fueled the fires of Justification. I guess in a sense, it was a Revenge affair. I don’t know?
> 
> What I do know, is that the last 8 weeks, I finally feel like my wife wants me. I have not felt wanted for over 17 years, and it feels absolutely wonderful. After all this time, I feel like her “Man” again. It feels like she finally woke up and realized that she could lose me. We have never had better sex than this. She attacks me like she has never done before.


Bingo! That is what happened with me. Ironically I also wanted to be wanted by someone who had not cheated on me. 

Just too damn crazy.


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## MattMatt

KJ_Simmons said:


> I don't get it....you know first hand how much it hurts, yet you turned around and did the same thing?
> 
> Forgive me, but I think you two aren't really meant to be together. There are some voids that it appears neither of you can fill in the other.
> 
> I hope this doesn't turn into a vicious cycle for you guys.


Because you do not think about that when you are doing it.

Least, that is what it felt like for me.


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## Hangingon78

happydad said:


> Now I know why your wife had EA's, you are as wishy washy as they come.



Wow! I am not sure why you say that. Clearly you are some kind of perfect husband? I guess I wasn't expecting to be so disrespected. I thought this was a site where others offered helpful advice and opinions? 

Now I guess I know why your wife hits on a bunch of other guys if you are always such a disrespectful judgmental D-bag!


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## MattMatt

Hangingon78 said:


> Wow! I am not sure why you say that. Clearly you are some kind of perfect husband? I guess I wasn't expecting to be so disrespected. I thought this was a site where others offered helpful advice and opinions?
> 
> Now I guess I know why your wife hits on a bunch of other guys if you are always such a disrespectful judgmental D-bag!


It is. But sometimes it isn't.

Take the rough with the smooth and just roll with it.


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## Hangingon78

> Okay… despite the mistakes my wife and I have made, we have somehow managed to raise some wonderful kids. You have to understand that this post is framing some of the extreme lows of our marriage. We have had a lot of good times also. I wish I could post a family picture on here, because you would see that we have 6 beautiful, strong, happy children. They are amazing, and I have no idea how they turned out so good. *We have always put God first in our home.* We have been going to church weekly for our whole marriage, and I truly believe that my kids are as good as they are, because God has blessed them…. Not because of their imperfect parents. Bottom line is…I sure feel for my kids too… They have definitely had to endure some rough times watching their mom and dad struggle to rebuild their marriage, but I am hopeful that they are learning some valuable lessons that will help them in their future marriages.





GusPolinski said:


> Nope.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gus, I have always admired your knowledge and wisdom on here. I guess I should be careful using the term “Always”, or “Never”. I mentioned that we put God first in our home, because my wife and I from the beginning of our marriage agreed that if we put our trust in God, and tried our best to teach our children to do the same, that we would be blessed. For the last 20 years I could probably count on one hand the number of times that we were unable to make it to church on Sunday. I am only saying this to make the point that we do feel very strongly that we want our family to be centered around Christ and his teachings. Have we fallen short of this at times. YES!!! We are imperfect people. I have made many mistakes in my life that I wish I could have done differently, but that is also how we learn and grow. 

Bottom line have I “Ever” been a perfect father and husband? No… Do I feel like God has blessed my family despite the mistakes I have made? Yes…


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## Hangingon78

MattMatt said:


> Bingo! That is what happened with me. Ironically I also wanted to be wanted by someone who had not cheated on me.
> 
> Just too damn crazy.





KJ_Simmons said:


> I don't get it....you know first hand how much it hurts, yet you turned around and did the same thing?
> 
> Forgive me, but I think you two aren't really meant to be together. There are some voids that it appears neither of you can fill in the other.
> 
> I hope this doesn't turn into a vicious cycle for you guys.





MattMatt said:


> Because you do not think about that when you are doing it.
> 
> Least, that is what it felt like for me.


It was actually the first time in 2 years that I didn’t wake up and think about details of my wife’s EA all day long. It was a relief to have something else to think about. That mixed with the wonderful feeling of being wanted by someone, was a toxic combination. At that point I began to justify why “I” deserved to feel wanted. I became selfish and angry.


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## MattMatt

Hangingon78 said:


> It was actually the first time in 2 years that I didn’t wake up and think about details of my wife’s EA all day long. It was a relief to have something else to think about. That mixed with the wonderful feeling of being wanted by someone, was a toxic combination. At that point I began to justify why “I” deserved to feel wanted. I became selfish and angry.


My wife had a PA. She had told me in advance so she thought it would not hurt me as much if I had accidentally caught them. But she told me she would come back to me and she did.

I coped with the pain of this as best I could, but took to drinking to numb the pain, then a female friend in a hobby group became an EA that was on the point of going PA when, in an instant, I realised what I was doing. I confessed to my wife as soon as I could and sent a NC letter.


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## takingit1day

My husband said the exact same thing...you don't think about that when you're doing it. 

The pain affairs causes, both EA and PA, is devastating. 

Yet, I can understand you (hangingon78) waking up 2 years later consumed with the details of your wife's EA. It's the bond that she formed with someone else that hurts so much. At least that was the case when my husband had the EA with a co-worker.

I hope you and your wife figure this all out, stop the vicious cycle and find happiness in your marriage.

Good luck!


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## TNC

I just read this whole thing and I have to say, I did not see the end coming at all. As much as you wrote about how hurt you were, you intentionally did the same thing.

And what's worse, you had read SEVERAL books that basically explain how this happens, and STILL did it.

Yikes man.


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## Hangingon78

TNC said:


> I just read this whole thing and I have to say, I did not see the end coming at all. As much as you wrote about how hurt you were, you intentionally did the same thing.
> 
> And what's worse, you had read SEVERAL books that basically explain how this happens, and STILL did it.
> 
> Yikes man.


I have no excuses. I knew that it was wrong from the beginning, and I am extremely sorry for what I did. One thing that I am very grateful for, is that my wife discovered those texts on my phone when she did, because I was on a destructive path, and if I would have continued down that road, who knows where I would have ended up. As it still stands, my wife is the only woman I have ever had sex with, so at least we have that to build on as we start our path to recovery.


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## happydad

Hangingon78 said:


> Wow! I am not sure why you say that. Clearly you are some kind of perfect husband? I guess I wasn't expecting to be so disrespected. I thought this was a site where others offered helpful advice and opinions?
> 
> Now I guess I know why your wife hits on a bunch of other guys if you are always such a disrespectful judgmental D-bag!


I didn't mean to come across as harsh, but it sounds insane to me to have been going through what you have for so long to do the same thing to that person.


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## phillybeffandswiss

You weren't harsh, some people expect sympathy and get angry when the opposite happens. I get the anger when you get dumped on or shamed when you first show up. Yet, it makes zero sense when you come to a marriage board, get advice, read the books and STILL go down the infidelity road that hurt you. You can't except kid gloves, unicorns and butterflies for your own creation.


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## Hangingon78

happydad said:


> I didn't mean to come across as harsh, but it sounds insane to me to have been going through what you have for so long to do the same thing to that person.


I understand that it sounds crazy, and I have never come here wanting sympathy from anyone. The only reason I was a little taken back by your comment the other day, is because you really don’t know very much about me, or the full dynamics of my situation, and then you boldly say that you “Know” now why my wife cheated on me. To me that’s similar to walking up to a mother or father that just lost their child to suicide, and saying “I know now why your kid killed himself, because you are as wishy washy as they come”… My point is that it’s a little harsh to say something like that to someone who has gone through, and is still going through pain and suffering. 

I never expected butterflies and unicorns either. I don’t expect any pity from anyone. I was simply sharing my story with others that might be dealing with a similar situation. Do I regret emailing that other woman, and hurting my wife? YES!!!

But I can tell you that for the first time since my wife’s first affair over 17 years ago, that I finally feel like she “Gets it”. She was able to get a glimpse into my world, and understand that I was really in pain over those years. She was always so cold, and would say things like “ I can’t believe you’re not over that yet”. Since my affair…Now she has been saying over and over again that she is so sorry for the hurt and pain she caused me. She seems truly remorseful, and empathetic. I know that was not the ideal way for her to learn that, and I truly feel bad for the pain I have caused her, but I am hopeful that we can both move forward from this point with a better understanding of how to protect each other, and also have a greater appreciation for each other. 

Like the old saying “You don’t know what you’ve got, until its gone” , my wife and I have both had a glimpse of how close we have come to losing each other, and it has helped us both wake up and recognize that we truly cherish each other. We have a long way to go, and it will take time to rebuild trust, but it feels like we are starting on a firm foundation, that being “Rock Bottom”. I hope the knowledge that we have gained through our pain and suffering will help us build a marriage that is much stronger, and better than it could have been otherwise.


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## Justadude

Hangingon78 said:


> But I can tell you that for the first time since my wife’s first affair over 17 years ago, that I finally feel like she “Gets it”. She was able to get a glimpse into my world, and understand that I was really in pain over those years. She was always so cold, and would say things like “ I can’t believe you’re not over that yet”. Since my affair…Now she has been saying over and over again that she is so sorry for the hurt and pain she caused me. She seems truly remorseful, and empathetic. I know that was not the ideal way for her to learn that, and I truly feel bad for the pain I have caused her, but I am hopeful that we can both move forward from this point with a better understanding of how to protect each other, and also have a greater appreciation for each other.
> 
> Like the old saying “You don’t know what you’ve got, until its gone” , my wife and I have both had a glimpse of how close we have come to losing each other, and it has helped us both wake up and recognize that we truly cherish each other. We have a long way to go, and it will take time to rebuild trust, but it feels like we are starting on a firm foundation, that being “Rock Bottom”. I hope the knowledge that we have gained through our pain and suffering will help us build a marriage that is much stronger, and better than it could have been otherwise.


Competition is a big motivating factor. I know when I first found out about my X cheating on me I went into full competition mode, and it’s was mano de mano in my mind. But if this is the case with your wife it’s a short term fix. I’ve heard stories of people not knowing what they had until they lost it, but from people I’ve known this has been short lived. She has done a lot of damage to your marriage, and you have compounded it. If you have to cheat to wake up your spouse, you’ve got some major league problems.

I wish you the best, and I say this just to caution you. You are not out of the woods, and you never will be, because you both now know what you are capable of. Interestingly enough I think that knowing that you can both cheat maybe a way you don’t take each other for granted ever again, but the flip side is that you can never trust each other fully ever again.


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## Hangingon78

Things have been pretty good the past few weeks between my wife and I. We have our ups and downs, but we have generally gotten better at not bringing up the past. There are still bumps in the road, like the email conversation we had today. I will post the conversation below, but basically certain things will still trigger me, and I bring up the past, and then it is all down hill from there. We were able to recover somewhat quickly from this one, but often times we don't do so well, and we will say hurtful and mean things to each other. Here is the conversation:

Her: How’s it going? I got to work and heard a bunch of bad news…..it’s not going to be pretty around here. ASAP, Jerry and the other manager that’s in the other area, are being moved….We are getting a new Department Manager… some Brad guy, I don’t know who he is. I seriously can’t believe. It… It’s probably going to be awful. I will try and stay positive though.

Me: Ugh… My heart started beating really fast when I read this.

Her: I love you babe, are you okay?

Me: I’m fine…

Her: So a guy named brad is the new Department Manager, and Craig is my new manager. I don’t know who he is... I’m a good person. You can trust me.

Me: Oh… I feel so much better now.

Her: I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic? You can be nice to me and try to trust me. I thought you’d want to know.

Me: How would you feel if you found out that I was getting two new bosses, and they were both female? 

Her: It would suck and I wouldn’t like it, but it’s not like you could do anything about it….just like I can’t… What? Are you going to be mad and upset at me because of this? Seriously? Like I have something to do with it.

Me: I just don’t feel very good about it. I’m not mad. I just wanted you to imagine for a second how I might feel??? Especially since your affair was with your boss. I know there is nothing that can be done, I just don’t get a warm fuzzy that’s for sure.

Her: Your affair was with a coworker and you still work with females every day.

Me: That’s not even an equal comparison and you know it. You would freak out if I even had to deal with a woman coworker, let alone be managed by one.

Her: Yep, and you do…..and I don’t want to get into the past because we won’t agree. What you did was horrible. You can talk to me when you’re done living in the past.

Me: What you did was even more horrible!!!

Her: Now you’re comparing and I disagree completely. I’m done.

Me: You had the nerve to say “I don’t want to get into the past because we won’t agree”…and then in the next breath, you throw in “What you did was horrible”… I can’t even believe you said that? I am the one that deserves an apology.

Her: You don’t agree that what you did was horrible?

Me: I agree that what I did was horrible, but I am brought to the realization, that you have no clue, that what you did was equally as horrible. 

Her: I do… Let me go back and resend the email you sent me that started this……just a sec. ::: I just don’t feel very good about it. I’m not mad. I just wanted you to imagine for a second how I might feel??? Especially since your affair was with your boss. I know there is nothing that can be done, I just don’t get a warm fuzzy that’s for sure.


Me: Yes… When I sent that, all you needed to say was. “Honey”… I understand why this is troubling to you. I am sorry for what happened before. We will work through this…..,,,,but instead you chose the “Kick a hurting man in the nuts approach”… Then like always, it Spirals down from there, and we get “Ugly”.

Her: I’m sorry, all I think about when you say that is what you did to me. I’m sorry. everything will be fine. Just forget it.

Me: I’m sorry too. We can’t do that anymore. We need to stop blaming and comparing. It only causes us to hurt.


Her: Yes, but I want you to admit you brought it up. I know that’s hard for you……but I love you.


Me: I admit that hearing you were getting a new male boss caused me great anxiety and caused me to think about the past. Yes, I brought it up! I was merely trying to describe why this caused me anxiety. 

Her: I already knew it would, and I thought it best you know.

Me: Thank you for not keeping something like that from me. I do appreciate that.

Her: I love you

Me: I love you too…


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## GusPolinski

I'm still not convinced that she wasn't physical w/ _at least_ the first guy. After all, they could talk at work, so WHY would they be meeting in a grocery store parking lot "just to talk"...?

Doesn't pass the sniff test.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hangingon78

GusPolinski said:


> I'm still not convinced that she wasn't physical w/ _at least_ the first guy. After all, they could talk at work, so WHY would they be meeting in a grocery store parking lot "just to talk"...?
> 
> Doesn't pass the sniff test.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree completely. It happened over 17 years ago now, and I have absolutely no way to prove otherwise. We have talked a lot about it. Something I don't believe I mentioned in my original post, is that she did eventually admit to kissing him when they met in the grocery store parking lot. She claims that she didn't want too, so he convinced her to let him kiss her, with out her kissing him back. She said it was against her will, but that she submitted, and sat there while he open mouth kissed her. She says it was only for a few seconds. She says after the meeting she refused to meet him after work again. She claims that he was very persuasive, and would try and manipulate her, but she never wanted to be stuck alone with him in the car again, so she did everything she could to avoid it. She also admitted to hugging him to say goodbye after work one night. I will never know for sure, if this is how it really happened, but it is all I have.

Bottom line is I feel like she has been open with me, and I do believe she has given me all the details of her two affairs. I understand that there is a chance that I don't know everything, but I have chosen to move forward with the hope that we can rebuild trust someday. I am not under any illusion that this will be easy, but I do have hope that it is possible.


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## Dyokemm

Hangingon78 said:


> I agree completely. It happened over 17 years ago now, and I have absolutely no way to prove otherwise. We have talked a lot about it. Something I don't believe I mentioned in my original post, is that she did eventually admit to kissing him when they met in the grocery store parking lot. She claims that she didn't want too, so he convinced her to let him kiss her, with out her kissing him back. She said it was against her will, but that she submitted, and sat there while he open mouth kissed her. She says it was only for a few seconds. She says after the meeting she refused to meet him after work again. She claims that he was very persuasive, and would try and manipulate her, but she never wanted to be stuck alone with him in the car again, so she did everything she could to avoid it. She also admitted to hugging him to say goodbye after work one night. I will never know for sure, if this is how it really happened, but it is all I have.
> 
> Bottom line is I feel like she has been open with me, and I do believe she has given me all the details of her two affairs. I understand that there is a chance that I don't know everything, but I have chosen to move forward with the hope that we can rebuild trust someday. I am not under any illusion that this will be easy, but I do have hope that it is possible.


This is the only realistic and possible path going forward in your M IMO.

Now that you both have cheated, the chance to dig for answers on any lingering doubts you had is most probably gone.

I truly hope that you can live with them, and I assume they are still there since you agreed completely with the recent post about her story not passing the smell test.

Out of curiosity, in your original post, you described how you bluffed your WW into confessing about the recent EA by making up a story about having a program to recover her last 5000 texts.

Did you ever try bluffing her on the truth by taking her to a poly office and telling her she is going to take one immediately, and she had this last opportunity to tell you any remaining truth?

I ask because, given how fast she caved with the 'recovery program', it seems likely she would have divulged anything she was still hiding pretty fast.

Of course, this is just curiosity about your past efforts to deal with this.

Your WW, now that she is a BW too, would undoubtedly never go for it now.


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## alte Dame

You two need some professional help. You should be in IC, in my opinion. You don't trust each other - why would you? - and don't seem to have any real direction on how to build the trust in your marriage again. It hasn't been there for you for many years & instead of trying to work on that for yourself, you leveled the untrustworthy playing field.

I hope you get some help.


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## convert

GusPolinski said:


> I'm still not convinced that she wasn't physical w/ _at least_ the first guy. After all, they could talk at work, so WHY would they be meeting in a grocery store parking lot "just to talk"...?
> 
> Doesn't pass the sniff test.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree


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## Hangingon78

Dyokemm said:


> Out of curiosity, in your original post, you described how you bluffed your WW into confessing about the recent EA by making up a story about having a program to recover her last 5000 texts.
> 
> Did you ever try bluffing her on the truth by taking her to a poly office and telling her she is going to take one immediately, and she had this last opportunity to tell you any remaining truth?
> 
> I ask because, given how fast she caved with the 'recovery program', it seems likely she would have divulged anything she was still hiding pretty fast.
> 
> Of course, this is just curiosity about your past efforts to deal with this.
> 
> Your WW, now that she is a BW too, would undoubtedly never go for it now.



I really thought about going the Polygraph route back then, but I never did. Like you said, now it is a little too late considering we are both trying to piece things back together. I am so glad I made the text recovery bluff, because I don’t believe she ever would have divulged a lot of the stuff I learned from that.

The good thing is it has been 18 months since my wife has seen or heard from her old boss. She has promised me that if she ever hears anything about him, or by some bazaar chance sees him, that she will immediately tell me. I have made her this same promise, and if the OW in my case ever emails, or tries to contact me, then I will let my wife know instantly. 

For the most part we seem to be on a good path. Over the last couple weeks, I have mentioned to her while we are lying in bed that for the first time, in a long, long time, I feel safe. I haven’t felt safe for 17 years, and of course the feeling comes and goes, but the point is, that it gives me hope that someday we can be completely healed and recovered.


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