# Opposite Gender Kids



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

This came up on another thread and it was suggested that it might make an interesting discussion. How has having opposite sex children shifted your view on things?

I have two sons and no daughters, so while of course I see things through the lens of a woman I'm also very concerned about things that will affect my boys. So of course issue that are important to men are important to me too. I think about what they will face as they grow up and some of it I don't like. Just a quick example, but I don't wish to see my boys get screwed by family court any more then any guy on here wants to be screwed by family court.

I think having only daughters shifted my father's world view as well. He was a little sexist in the roles he saw for men and women.....it's not that he thought women shouldn't be able to do whatever they wanted, but he was somewhat rigid in his view of gender roles. I remember one time he tried to tell me that men can't support their families anymore because women have taken all the jobs. I laughed at him and pointed out that the jobs he was referring to were the blue collar and manufacturing jobs that were common go to's in his day as you didn't need a ton of education. These jobs have all been outsources to cheap labor, not taken by women.

There is pretty much no job that a guy wants that he can't get because women took them all. The fields that women gravitate toward are not necessarily male desired fields, and I know in the actuarial world all men who want to work are working. Maybe there's a guy that didn't get my specific position because I got it but those are the breaks.....another guy could just as easily have beat him out for my job. But there are plenty of actuary jobs.

But my father did shift his views on some things because he wanted the best for his daughters, and he may not have had these shifts if he'd had sons. And I don't think I'd likely give quite as much thought to issues that affect men if I didn't have sons.

Many of us have been accused of hating the opposite gender, but with a few exceptions how can that be true? We all have opposite sex people that are dear to us....and of course our children are the dearest of all. I would take a bullet for either one of my boys, so how could I not be concerned about issues that will affect them?

So how has having opposite sex kids changed your world view?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I have one of each and it really does change the way you look at things. 

There are some things I am more worried about with my son- like never leave any doubt about if a sexual encounter is consensual or not. Get enthusiastic, sober consent.

I didn't even think about custody issues with him yet but my brothers have been through the wringer and I can see the pain of choosing to leave and risk the court system or stay and be unhappy. 
My brother got, IMO, screwed because she claimed abuse and the court wanted to be "safe" and believe her just in case. 

My H often has talks with DS about what kind of women to pick, how to spot b*tches, gold diggers, vindictive women. He'll see women out or on a movie or something and be like "DS- see don't ever bother with those women no matter how hot they are, it is never worth it"

I don't ever want him to be jaded though. I want him to treat the right woman with compassion, care, love and know that the right one _is _ worth it. 
He's awesome though, very compassionate. He's the kind of boy who can tell if I am not feeling well and just automatically take on more duties, help more with DD, even bring me drinks or anything else I need. He's the perfect balance of sensitive and confident. 

He is messy as heck though, his ADD makes cleaning and organizing very difficult for him. We're trying to fix that but I have told him that he will likely have to have a cleaning service when he is older if he isn't able to do it himself- don't expect your wife to just clean up your stuff or put up with it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I have a daughter and four sons, and absolutely love them all.

My daughter is very smart and very strong. Not very emotional. I have total confidence in her judgment.

One of my boys is like that, though with a little more emotion. The other ones seem more emotional, which concerns me. Dug is not very emotional, and that really looks like a strength to me.

I love my boys, but I do not protect their egos. I am direct with them. I do not hold back from sharing with them my concerns about them. The truth might sting, but eventually it heals. _If_ they can humble themselves enough to hear it. 

Humility, as in deep honesty, is stressed here. Quite frankly, it is expected. I don't see how a man can live a healthy life without humility.

I have stressed _looking beyond the packaging_ when it comes to girls. That has to be the biggest mistake men make, along with protecting their pride. Male pride, false pride, anyway, can be a real stumbling block to men's success in life.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

What a great idea for a thread! I have a boy and a girl, so the difference in genders is right in my face. My kids are still young (6 and 9) so I'm anxious to hear other posters with more experience weigh in. My worries are different for each kid. For my son, I worry about school more. I think ,at least in the early years, the educational system us geared more towards girls and not wiggly, energetic little boys. My son is also dyslexic, so there's an extra challenge thrown in. 

I worry about my daughter having body image issues. We live in the South. The land of kiddie beauty pageants and crash diets. I hate it!! I think I avoided a lot of the pitfalls by playing sports. She plays too. I want her to focus on what her body can do, not what it looks like. My son plays sports, but hopefully they will provide a source of self esteem that school does not.

I hadn't even thought about relationship issues!! Ahhh!! I have seen some of the mean girl bullying stuff with my daughter. Haven't had to deal with bullying with the boy, because quite frankly, he's huge for his age.

Question for the other posters. Do you think you and your husband discipline your kids differently?
@jld Can you give an example of a time you didn't protect their egos? I'm curious. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't tell them anything I do not think is true. I am open with them when I have concerns. 

I am going to look for something I wrote recently, and post it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Found it:

_I was talking to ds16 about the situation of some of the men here yesterday. I think many males at any age after puberty confront some of the same issues. 

One thing ds16 has in common with some older men here is that he is sensitive and emotional. This is not how ds13 and Dug are, but may be how ds10 and ds7 are. We will see.

At any rate, he has had issues in the past with feeling resentful towards me for concerns I have had about his schoolwork. He is a good student, but not as driven and disciplined as dd20 and ds13. 

In the past I have talked to him about the need to be serious, to think long term about his goals and what he needs to do now to meet them. This would usually end with his crying and/or muttering under his breath to me.

Sometimes it even happened when I would ask him to help around the house, or turn off his video games. Resentment.

In the last six to nine months or so, I have seen a change. He has been much calmer, more open. Times when I have been irritated with him for not doing something I asked right away, he has just said, Okay, Mom, and then he gets it done. I might even hear a You're right, I'm sorry I did not do it earlier.

Needless to say, this taking responsibility without backtalk or attitude has impressed me. So I asked him what changed.

He told me he realized he had to get control of himself. It was not helping him to get upset and be reactive to me or his dad or his sister or whoever it was he felt aggrieved by.

He said the first thing he did was admit he was anxious. Then he looked at the source of the anxiety. 

For schoolwork, he realized it was fear that he would not do well on his SATs and ACTs. He is taking some time regularly now to prepare for those tests.

He said the next thing he had to do was consciously try to relax. He said that talking to calming people, like Dug, was helpful in this.

The most important thing he said is that he realizes he cannot expect other people to help him do these things. He cannot hold other people accountable for his feelings. He needs to take charge of his feelings and work through them. If he is feeling anxious, he needs to figure out why, and what he can do about it. His life is the one most affected, after all.


From ds16: "It is up to me to take control of my emotions. It is not for other people to *****foot around me just to not make me cry or not get emotional. People are not attracted to people like that." 

"I want to feel good about myself. When I would get upset, I was just avoiding the issues that made me upset. I was resentful and felt like my mom was being mean to me. I just wanted her to stop."

"But I was not looking at what she was telling me. I could have really grown from what she was saying, but I was not mature enough yet."

"Then I just decided I was going to take more responsibility for my emotions. I did not want to have to rely on people to keep me calm. I was going to have to do that by myself."

"I would not feel good about myself if everybody else felt like they had to make me feel better. I would not respect myself."_


I am not going to pretend with him. His sister has been very successful with her studies. I do not see the same discipline and drive in him.

Not that he does not have his own wonderful qualities. But I am not going to pretend to see something I do not. I am not a mom who thinks the sun rises and sets on her son. I did know one mom like this, and I do not think it was helpful.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

Thanks for posting @jld. Lots of life lessons in one post! I like what you wrote about teaching your boys see beyond the packaging when it comes to [email protected] touched on it too. I think when the time comes, I will warn him about girls that "lead" with their sexuality. Because on some level they have low self esteem and probably think that is all they have to offer. I will warn both kids about people trying to rush relationships. It's a bad sign in my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

I hate to say it but a lot of those lessons your son learned at 16, I didn't learn until my thirties!! Looking at my anxieties and finding safe people to talk about them too, forget about it!! That's all stuff I learned in the past couple of years.

Has anybody dealt with bullying? What do you say to yours son's verse daughter's? I'm seriously thinking about telling my 6 year old to go punch some little [email protected]#%$ in the face!! Not really, but the mean girl isolationist strategies are seriously not cool!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ms. GP said:


> I hate to say it but a lot of those lessons your son learned at 16, I didn't learn until my thirties!! Looking at my anxieties and finding safe people to talk about them too, forget about it!! That's all stuff I learned in the past couple of years.
> 
> Has anybody dealt with bullying? What do you say to yours son's verse daughter's? I'm seriously thinking about telling my 6 year old to go punch some little [email protected]#%$ in the face!! Not really, but the mean girl isolationist strategies are seriously not cool!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He still struggles, Ms. GP. He will have to be mindful of these things, discipline himself, his whole life. Just like the rest of us.

We homeschool. That helps a lot. The kids have more time to develop a sense of their own values before having to confront the rest of the world on a daily basis.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I am as OPEN as sin with our sons & I said things in the past where I felt I was RIGHT.. they needed to hear it.. but my way of doing it.. in full blown "responsible honesty".. didn't always give me the respect I may have thought I deserved.. once our oldest son told me.. if I wasn't his mother, he would have walked out on me.. 

I deserved that...I also thanked him for his honesty in telling me this.. I have since learned.. there is a time & a place..... just cause they are men.. I still need to encourage.. and influence in a more loving manner.. 

When I dreamed of family... I so wanted a daughter.. the desire of my heart... I didn't have sisters & my Mom took off when I was just 10... for some reason the powers that be loaded our quiver with sons...5 of them...and we don't even like sports! Got a couple cross country runners anyway.. Music has been more of a passion in our family genes, so it seems. 

We did go on to have 1 dear daughter....after I seen the difference between raising a girl and sons.. I suddenly THANKED my heavens I had all these boys !! They were easier ! 

GIRLS, at least mine.. Jesus.. if you say the wrong thing.. she will clam up, slam her door, refuse to talk.. (I was never like this. I'd blurt out my irritation , not retreat! )... but I guess this is rather common.. then I see the DRAMA between her & girlfriends as she has gotten older.. help us all....can I say "ATTITUDE" ! I try to be logical but so much is "so emotional".. not sure it matters what I say. 

What I see with the boys & their buddies is more Laughter, no jealousy going on, they can hang in groups, slapping each other on the backs. BOYS are so darn funny!!! Taking it all in stride.. 

Well ... until they get their heart broken , that is. 

After seeing 2 teen sons dumped by 1st loves.. both struggled with thoughts of suicide.. (I hate to even speak this)... I feel privileged as a Mom that they were able, willing to open up with me...talk it out.. not shutting me out.. 

I come to realize how tenderly sensitive young men ARE in this area... when they feel their world has collapsed around them... also from reading many posts by men , some on my Romance thread...& others, as they always stand out to me... how many felt "ROMANCE" at one time, they may have been idealists... until a girl Fcked them over...betrayed them, treated them like a piece of trash.. after this.. it's pivotal how they deal with the pain.. 

Men are greatly shamed for showing any weakness or needing help in our society.. this is unattractive to women, which they well know....A man MUST stand tall, confident, daring, courageous at all times or he is reduced to a mouse... 

But still..this doesn't erase the fact they struggle emotionally & bleed the same as we.....the depths of rejection hit men harder because they FEEL more alone.. This subject was opened up further in this thread...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/302234-interesting-article-suicide-shame-men.html

One of our dear sons is still struggling with loss.. I thank God for his friends during this time..more than anything else.. I know my place is not to hover, to baby.. just BE there.. he has to come out of it on his own.. If this was my daughter (and may be someday).. it would be different somehow.. . we'd talk & cry together till the mascara dripped down our cheeks.. then go shopping and rant how all men can go DIE ! I just find if very different with sons... they have to face it alone, deal with it internally , for the most part.. 

So much is expected of our MEN.. to show he is a worthy MAN...not on a loser scale..


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SA, did your sons go to your husband with their heartache? What was his response?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I too have told both of my boys that they need to consider more then what a woman looks like. I agree that this is a mistake a lot of men make.....they were able to do this long ago when they held all of the power and the woman couldn't go anywhere. And because women had no money or power they had to look for men to support them, thus leaving the men with money the most options.

But today women do have power and options.

I personally dislike the term "gold digger". Its use implies a woman who is somehow using unfair shallow criteria, yet there is no comparable term for men. The thing is that everyone has an agenda and there's nothing wrong with that; some women look for money, but this is a product of the very long period of time when women could not make their own. They could not afford to worry about what they were attracted to; men, otoh, controlled the money and were free to look for what attracted them. But while a "gold digger" is indeed using shallow criteria there are plenty of men who do the same thing; how many of these rich men who marry said "gold diggers" are really concerned with what kind of person their woman is? Are they actually concerned with anything beyond her looks? Often not. So why is she a "gold digger" and he's somehow a huge victim?

Old geezer marries young woman and everyone tears into her for gold digging, yet somehow the old geezer is a huge victim; not a guy who was not interested in a nice woman more comparable to him. He willingly went into a business deal to get what he couldn't otherwise get, so why is she a predator and he's a victim? It's an age old double standard.

They both have an agenda. Period. The ironic thing is that many men are actually po'd about this even though they use shallow criteria; they want the hottest woman they can get and will use money to get her but are secretly angry that she's in it for the money. He should be able to choose her based on shallow criteria but she should want him for him.....well life doesn't work like this and I've told my kids this. If you want to use shallow criteria you're going to get a shallow partner and it'll be what you deserve. "Gold diggers" know what they're getting; they're not under the illusion that the guy actually loves them for who they are. They know it's for looks and they accept that; it's usually the guy who can't accept that he's getting what he gives.

I know I'm probably stepping into a minefield here but I've also cautioned my boys to be very careful when making the decision to support a sahm. I know a number of ladies here are sahm's, and please don't think I'm suggesting that what you guys do isn't valuable because it is. I did it too for 5 years and I recognize that it work for many couples; I've simply told them that in doing so they've assumed support of another adult and they may have to continue to support her if things go south because even if she's of a mind to go back to work it's very difficult to get back into the work force after having been out for so long. It's unreasonable to think a woman (or man) that's been home with kids for 20 years is all of a sudden going to become self sufficient. I'm not sure a lot of men fully understand this when they agree to a sahm, as evidenced by the anger we see when they have to pay a lot of alimony. Especially when SHE leaves him.....yet a sahp isn't obliged to stick around simply because they other spouse paid the bills so one has to understand what they're signing up for. I know my ex figured that because I left him I shouldn't be entitled to ANYTHING, and that included CS. I didn't even ask for alimony.

I wonder if it wouldn't be wise to sign a legal agreement when entering into a stay at home parent situation so there can be less fighting if things go south.

Of course as an actuary I'm extremely risk averse.....

On another note my older son has already come to me with the reddit crap about man haters. I'm happy he feels comfortable enough to come to me about such things and I've done what I could to deal with that. 
Told him that women are people like everyone else and want to be treated how he wants to be treated. Also that the guys spouting this stuff are often guys who are upset that they can't get what they think they're entitled to so they rage. If you want a good partner you have to be a good partner and if you want someone with lots to offer you have to have lots to offer.

And I've told them they are not entitled to anything; if a woman doesn't want them just move on. It's no big deal, there will be others who do want them. Too many of these guys get crazy because someone dumps them.

Also spoke to my older son recently about the dangers of sexting and naked pics.....I look through his phone from time to time and don't think he has any but I wanted him to fully understand what could happen if his gf sends him something and he looks at it and heaven forbid sends it to someone else. I told him to just delete it immediately.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> SA, did your sons go to your husband with their heartache? What was his response?


No..if this was left to him.. there would be very little talking going on.. I'm afraid.. I've taken the initiative to open things up.... feeling it necessary...due to what was going on, poems written, things being said ..... I can count 3 deep, emotional (I cried.. they on the verge) connecting soul to soul conversations with 2 of our sons in the past few years.. lasting a couple hours.. I always try to bring out some laughter in there.. after the heaviness.. it ends on a good note.. 

Husband was there with me this last time.. he always tells me later how good it was, he's supportive, tells me I am a loving mother.. but really.. for him... it seems more of a "deer in the headlights " sort of thing ... he does chime in.. but he runs out of things to say pretty quickly ... 

It's easy to tell our boys to not fall.. not get involved, it's water off their backs...plenty of fish in the sea.. but it doesn't seem to make a difference.. 

Our boys are just not the type to go out & have a random fling with anyone.. SlowlyGoingCrazy mentioned she worries that her sons always get "consent", so one is not accused of Rape...this is one thing I'm not worried about .. they don't go for girls who hook up easily...they believe in waiting for love (crazy isn't it!).... No.. we have the nice guy sons who will just be used by woman, then thrown away -when they meet "more of a MAN".... more money, nice truck.. better Job (true of this last break up anyway)..

I'm being sarcastic.. please excuse me.. 

I literally told son the other day to just so Get screwed.. who gives a ****.. the woman today all want it anyway.. and he argued with me.. that he's not that type of guy.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

@lifeistooshort What are some things you have told you son to watch out for when dating?

I agree with you BTW. Unfortunately, there are some gold diggers out there. It's a sad fact if life. I think I will tell my son when the time comes to watch out for label obsessed girls. You know the types. 300$ shoes and a 10$ an hour job. 1,000 dollar hair extensions and no health insurance. I may tell him to resist the urge to impress her by spending lots of money on dates in the beginning. Idk. What do you think?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am glad your son argued with you, SA.  He knows that is not the kind of man he wants to be. You and Mr. SA raised him well.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I have told them to watch for women who feel entitled to things they can't afford and are looking for someone else to buy or otherwise support them. 

But if that's what he wants that's his decision, he just needs to understand what it is. If you're not ok with supporting a high maintenance entitled woman don't get with one, and understand that she's not there because she loves you first and foremost. 

I've encouraged him to find an accomplished woman with values and life philosophies similar to his. 

And that she'll be his wife or partner, not his maid. So he can pick up after himself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I am glad your son argued with you, SA.  He knows that is not the kind of man he wants to be. You and Mr. SA raised him well.


Unfortunately JLD.. this doesn't do them a damn bit of favors in this liberal sex crazed culture our teens see all around them...it helps he goes to a Christian college anyway. 

I just hope he regains his confidence and stands firm..he's always been the go-getter...the most optimistic that "took the bull by the horns"... we were so proud of him... no more rebounds trying to fill a void... I have hope he'll find himself again.. and be better for it....regardless of how I am sarcastically speaking of all of this.. 

I don't think any gold diggers would want our sons .. 3rd son is so cheap...he wouldn't allow ME to even buy him a new Ipod until he couldn't read his cracked screen (we're talking spider web cracked).. he carried this thing for like over a year -kept insisting it still worked...he's good ...when it was dead & nonfunctional.. I was allowed to buy him a new one...

We get a charge out of how cheap he is.. he's had a GF who seems crazy about him for over a year plus... gifts is at the bottom of her list...she's a physical touching cuddly type...(everything I am.. she seems to be)... she's even cautious how much her dad spends on her.. in this way.. they are a good match anyway.. I tell son he better hang on to this one! 

GF who dumped other son.. she wanted the finest things.. oh yeah.. her Prom dress was something outrageous.. like $800 ! 

Yeah it was for the best.. son always felt she'd be too hard to please anyway.. I always felt she was a little too high class for this family.... that's just not what we're about.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

My son is 2, so we're far from dealing with a lot of issues he may encounter as he gets older, but I have thought about some of those things. Right now, I'm both happy and frustrated with him at times with his strong willed nature. He's a sweet kid though who loves to play with a baby doll and trucks. I don't put gender roles on him and he can play with which ever toy he chooses. I have gotten some grief for that, but I don't see any issue with it. I hope he will grow up to be a kind, compassionate, strong man one day.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Anon, I see nothing wrong with that. Girls now play with trucks so why shouldn't boys play with dolls? Mine have never shown interest in dolls but they did like to pretend cook. And they'd get the broom out when they'd see me sweeping. 

So they'll cook and clean, good for them. As I said before they'll have a partner, not a cook or maid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

The thing that these posts miss is how we as parents were shaped by our own parents. My exW came from a loving home with two parents. I came from a crap home with divorced parents and 99% only a male role model which was my father and then at 14 due to my dads issues I ended up adopted by my uncle/aunt. 

So enter my marriage we had a daughter. I was not going to have my daughter grow up with the same crap I did and made sure she had stability. Her mother is the more nurturing kind hearted person. I was the disciplinarian and the organizer/planner. Given I had very little of a mother figure it definitely impacted how I dealt with my daughters issues and concerns. I definitely related to her the "mans" way of thinking.

My daughter is almost 23 now. She says she now has a much better appreciation for what she used to think was my harsh approach. I also have a better understanding of girls and how they develop into women. I recently had a discussion with her about boundaries and compatibility. Out of that, I realized how generationally there is a huge difference in how kids form relationships and stupid things that are done. Ex: Get rid of your ex bf in Facebook or you'll always be looking back while in a current relationship. With a daughter I see how women/girls view things as harmless vs not that most men would disagree on.


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