# Hubby Doesn't Want Me to Talk to My Sister



## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Ok that title was a little sensational because he loves my family and he cares about my sister but she has been going through an ordeal with her mental health and for the past 2 years has been in an 'all about me', won't someone help me, fix me, I'm desperate....then, oh I'm fine, I don't need you, I'm my own person, I don't need my meds, etc.

It's exhausting and always up and down.
But she is my family. So I stay in relationship with her. I have worked very hard at maintaining my personal boundaries with her and make time between visits so as to not get overwhelmed. (I am a very empathetic person and have to do this anyway with people.)

This journey with my sister has been very hard on my family.
We don't know how to do it right, we've made mistakes, but we are learning to help her by having our own boundaries and our own lives that we don't just stop everything to cater to her.

Now recently there has been an uptick in really stupid decisions made by her. One of them involved a call from the police asking my brother to come get her an hour away. He asked me to come with him to drive her vehicle back and so we both put our day on hold to go and get her. (This has never happened before) 

I told my hubby who was smack dab in the middle of work (from home) what was going on and that I was going with my bro and that it was an hour away.
He started to get mad (at her) and ask why we were doing this and that we need to stop rescuing her, just leave her there. Then he started saying that I couldn't go.
I said, I wasn't really asking you if I could go, I was just letting you know what I'm doing.
(It was 3pm well within work hours and I had just put dinner in the crock pot and it would be done by 5.)
He said if you go there will be consequences. I asked what those consequences would be and he said he would be pissed.

My brother came in around that point and my H started in on him about how we were all just enabling my sister and that she needed to grow up, etc.

My bro just backed out of the room like, ok fine I'll find someone else to go with me.
But then I said, wait guys calm down let's figure this out.
My bro said, yeah let's de-escalate here and find out what's really going on.

Long story short I went with him and was back by 5 and we got my sis back and are laying down some rules and guidelines for her to always check in before going on a trip or stopping her meds etc and that if she doesn't do those things we cannot keep rescuing her.

So when I get home my h is pissed like he said he would be. He's had a rough day at work so he takes an hour to decompress and then he's ready to talk.
We start out he says why he's mad. Basically 'your sister is selfish and she doesn't care about anyone' and he called her names and said he's mad at my mom for the way she raised her and that he's mad at us siblings for enabling her.
He's mad because I give her time (on the phone) and I know that she's acting weird but I still talk to her for 3 hours (it was actually one)
He says that he has to clean up the mess when I talk to her because it effects me so much.
It does effect me but that's because my baby sister acts crazy. It's sad it's hard but he feels like I need to cut her out of my life.

I said if it's been bothering you so much to hear about this than why don't you say so?
I can talk to someone else about it. I just thought you were supporting me.

I'm not asking him to do anything with her or for her just support me.

He said that I was manipulating him because I was basically saying I will still see her and interact with her I just won't burden him with it.

Anyway, I know that this stuff happens in families and I sense that he is feeling desperate but I have been very careful not to sacrifice my time with him to give to her. 
I am feeling really desperate to know if it's reasonable for him to ask me to sacrifice a family member for him when he isn't even directly involved with her and doesn't have to be!

Why is he making me choose ? It's already hard enough going through this this and now I feel desperately sad and alone with him angry with me on top of it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You don't get it you already made the choice when you married him. Forsake all others remember? If a reasonable assessment of your sister's bad behavior or anyone's for that matter is that it's hurting your marriage then your spouse has a right to ask for boundaries. Seems like even you agree that it's hurting your marriage. I guess eventually you are going to have to choice. Or maybe he will.

Assuming your sister is an adult seems a shame to risk your marriage on someone and something that is really her responsibly that being her own life. Another thing you don't get is you only have a finite amount of emotional energy. 

Let me give you and example. When my Dad left when I was 7 my Mom spent a great deal of time crying and on the phone. So for the next 3 years of so I basically was on my own. I don't blame my Mom but it doesn't change the fact that I ended up floundering in school and a had a lot of problems. My Mom still did all the day to day stuff as a Mom and was right there in the room with me a lot of the time. Her emotional energy was elsewhere. This was really my Dad's fault. She was still a good Mom. I was alone. 

Choose wisely.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Without knowing any more than what you have written above then I would guess he is tired of your sisters manipulation and the way your family enable her behaviour.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Your sister has never grown up, and all the enabling that you and the family do means she never will. She isn't allowed to feel the consequences of her actions, so she carries on acting badly. 
She clearly enjoys the attention she gets, and the fact that she can run rings around you all. She likes the drama and is very selfish. 

Listen to our husband, he can see how this is affecting you and the marriage. He is sick of you being taken advantage of and being emotionally drained by it all. 
She has parents, they bought her up, leave them to parent her. She isn't your responsibility. Make it clear to her that you will still see her, but that you will no longer put up with her drama and immature behaviour, and you will no longer rescue her from the messes that she makes. Then stick to it.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

So this is the consensus? Break relationship with family for your spouse? I'm managing my time well, I'm not overwhelmed, just sad. I spend plenty of time and attention on hubby. I mean I get what you're saying @sokillme but this is something I am so aware of. Making sure that he has my undivided attention and making sure my daughter gets my attention too.

Am I never supposed to have any stress that might weigh on him and need his support for?

I'm not trying to be difficult I just don't understand it.

Yes @MrsHolland he is tired of it. I'm tired of it too. But I still don't see how that makes it right for me to cut off relationship with her. 

Maybe that's the part that I don't get, I don't see when it would ever be right to cut off relationship with a family member. (Short of physical threat)

Maybe that's where H and I differ.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

tigerlily99 said:


> .........................
> Yes @MrsHolland he is tired of it. I'm tired of it too. But I still don't see how that makes it right for me to cut off relationship with her.
> 
> Maybe that's the part that I don't get, I don't see when it would ever be right to cut off relationship with a family member. (Short of physical threat)
> ...


Not saying cut your sis out of your life. Sorry I'm about to go out but will come back another time. Some parallels in my husbands life and finally he understands that it is all about setting very very very firm boundaries and basically training the other family member.

I am in your husbands place and know just how frustrating it is. Please put your marriage first.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

tigerlily99 said:


> So this is the consensus? Break relationship with family for your spouse? I'm managing my time well, I'm not overwhelmed, just sad. I spend plenty of time and attention on hubby. I mean I get what you're saying @sokillme but this is something I am so aware of. Making sure that he has my undivided attention and making sure my daughter gets my attention too.
> 
> Am I never supposed to have any stress that might weigh on him and need his support for?
> 
> ...


I have had serious problems with my girlfriends family especially her mother.She has three sisters and for a while none of her family were talking to her.Her sisters had to talk to me because they work for me.(Long story)
Her mother is a manipulative narcissist and I have been told that by a professional,she thinks the world revolves around her and can’t accept that she is wrong about anything.She has everyone else in her family running in circles trying to keep her happy.Does this remind you of anyone?
We have a baby,almost seven months old and her mother has never seen the baby despite living less than ten minutes away.This all happened because my girlfriend finally stood up to her mothers constant manipulation and looking for financial handouts.
You have a husband and I think one child.Your sister doesn’t give a damn about anything other than herself.Will it take your husband to leave you and the splitting up of your family before you realize this.If you stop acting like a mother hen to your sister she will either learn to look after herself or she will break off all contact with you.
Either is good.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Your husband is your family. You don’t get to choose the family you were born into but you did choose him. What you are doing is damaging your relationship to him. Nothing wrong with putting distance between you and your sister. It’s not your job to fix her. It is your job to not damage your marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

tigerlily99 said:


> So this is the consensus? Break relationship with family for your spouse? I'm managing my time well, I'm not overwhelmed, just sad. I spend plenty of time and attention on hubby. I mean I get what you're saying @sokillme but this is something I am so aware of. Making sure that he has my undivided attention and making sure my daughter gets my attention too.
> 
> Am I never supposed to have any stress that might weigh on him and need his support for?
> 
> ...


I think that there are times when its appropriate to cut off a family member, I know people who have had to do this for the sake of their mental/emotional health, but here you can tell her that you will still see her but ONLY if she stops the way he is behaving and starts taking responsibility for her actions. Then its her choice, act badly and loose your contact or act like a mature adult and keep it. She needs to be given clear boundaries as to what is acceptable behaviour. This is what is usually done when children are growing up, but with her it seems this never happened. 
Sometimes love has to be tough and she will never change unless she is forced to take full responsibility for her actions, and that may mean not seeing you for a time.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

tigerlily99 said:


> Ok that title was a little sensational because he loves my family and he cares about my sister but she has been going through an ordeal with her mental health and for the past 2 years has been in an 'all about me', won't someone help me, fix me, I'm desperate....then, oh I'm fine, I don't need you, I'm my own person, I don't need my meds, etc.
> 
> It's exhausting and always up and down.
> But she is my family. So I stay in relationship with her. I have worked very hard at maintaining my personal boundaries with her and make time between visits so as to not get overwhelmed. (I am a very empathetic person and have to do this anyway with people.)
> ...


Jeez, you're jumping through all kinds of hoops trying to please everyone as much as you can - especially that controlling ass-clown of a husband you married.

You must have defended yourself at least 5 times in your original post, making sure to let us all know you got back by 5. What would happen if you _didn't_? Would Mr. Controlling vaporize into thin air if you didn't make it back in time? Would the world stop spinning? Would all humanity cease to exist?

I can understand his aggravation about your sister. But his nonsense about there being 'consequences' if you went with your brother - as though you're a damned child he was scolding - just makes him sound like a complete and utter douche bag. Seriously.



> Why is he making me choose ? It's already hard enough going through this this and now I feel desperately sad and alone with him angry with me on top of it.


Because he's a controlling little pissant that you *allow* to boss you around.

.Time to change gears.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Wolf1974 said:


> Your husband is your family. You don’t get to choose the family you were born into but you did choose him. What you are doing is damaging your relationship to him. Nothing wrong with putting distance between you and your sister. It’s not your job to fix her. It is your job to not damage your marriage.


I disagree.

The chances are 50/50 at BEST that the OP will still be married to this controlling bully her entire lifetime.

The chances that her sister will *ALWAYS* be her sister are 100%.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

You might not realize it but every interaction with your sister affects you. And as such affect your husband and your marriage. You bring all of those negative energy home with you, you further share it with your husband ..so he is then affected with negative energy....then he most likely work to get you out of that state of being into something more positive...thos can be very draining on your spouse...having to pick up the pieces of you....you get where I am going...

So saying you would stop sharing is not helping the matter...he still gets a negative affected wife. 

Maybe you should stop responding so much to your sister. You speak to her once a week and that's it. No running off to do any rescuers. Because it seemed like your husband who seemed like a nice guy is reaching his breaking point.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Jeez, you're jumping through all kinds of hoops trying to please everyone as much as you can - especially that controlling ass-clown of a husband you married.
> 
> You must have defended yourself at least 5 times in your original post, making sure to let us all know you got back by 5. What would happen if you _didn't_? Would Mr. Controlling vaporize into thin air if you didn't make it back in time? Would the world stop spinning? Would all humanity cease to exist?
> 
> ...


Totally disagree. She says that he loves her family, but he also cares that this attention seeking trouble-making adult sister is ruining their lives. Any good and caring husband would want to protect his wife and marriage from a toxic member. I applaud him.

There was no need for either of them to go and get the sister, she had her car with her.If she was drunk or whatever, maybe it would have done her good to spend the night in the police cell, she would think twice about doing it again. She needs the family to set her clear boundaries which she clearly has never had. 

He has clearly had enough and who can blame him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

brooklynAnn said:


> You might not realize it but every interaction with your sister affects you. And as such affect your husband and your marriage. You bring all of those negative energy home with you, you further share it with your husband ..so he is then affected with negative energy....then he most likely work to get you out of that state of being into something more positive...thos can be very draining on your spouse...having to pick up the pieces of you....you get where I am going...
> 
> So saying you would stop sharing is not helping the matter...he still gets a negative affected wife.
> 
> Maybe you should stop responding so much to your sister. You speak to her once a week and that's it. No running off to do any rescuers. Because it seemed like your husband who seemed like a nice guy is reaching his breaking point.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I disagree.
> 
> The chances are 50/50 at BEST that the OP will still be married to this controlling bully her entire lifetime.
> 
> The chances that her sister will *ALWAYS* be her sister are 100%.


Its the sister who is at fault here, and the family who have enabled her behaviour for far too long. He is a man at the end of his tether, he isn't a bully at all. He is a good caring husband trying to protect his wife and marriage.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I agree with the others. You need strict boundaries especially with family
or they will drag you down to their level.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Your sister is a cancer that has spread to your marriage and is killing it. You don't have to cut her out of your life, but you do need to set some serious boundaries. Start with making sure she understands you'll no longer be rescuing her. Then move on to letting her know that drama and bullpucky is unacceptable and unappreciated by calmly ending all interactions when she starts her stuff. If that fails, maybe you'll have to make a choice. 

If it were me, I'd choose my spouse. No question. How do I know? Because I have TWO siblings very similar to your sister and I very, very, rarely speak with them precisely because their bullpucky was causing problems in my marriage. Like, I can count on one hand how many times in the last year I have spoken to both of them, combined. My life is so much better for it.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

OP your husband isn't emotionally connected to your sister the way you are. In other words he is in a better position to rationally and objectively form opinions about her situation than you are.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I disagree.
> 
> The chances are 50/50 at BEST that the OP will still be married to this controlling bully her entire lifetime.
> 
> The chances that her sister will *ALWAYS* be her sister are 100%.


Being divorced I know what the odds are however this type of stuff, toxic family members, are one of a hundred reasons people get divorced every day. The common thread in all the varying 100 things is putting OTHER things ahead of your marriage which , unless disfunctional, should be number one.

Her husband wanting her protected is controlling now lol good god give me a break. 

If anyone assumed they will be part of the 50% divorce rate will likely find that a very self fulfilling prophecy


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

OP, you have grown up in this atmosphere and it is your baseline, your “normal “. The issue is that because this has always been how your family interacts and responds to your sister, you cannot see right now how completely dysfunctional this is. Your husband is concerned about YOUR mental health more than your sister’s and that is a viewpoint you are completely unfamiliar with even though it is a healthy reaction and mindset — he’s concerned about you far more than your sister and that is how it should be in a healthy, functional relationship. It sounds like he has tried to be patient, to gently demonstrate the dysfunction that is so apparent in how your family enables your sister to continue her irresponsible and destructive behavior with little to no long lasting consequences. 

I am intimately aware of the frustration your husband is experiencing from watching you get sucked into the drama and sheer insanity your sister’s behavior causes — I, too, have had to initiate firm boundaries regarding family members in order to limit the stress, disruption and mental/emotional exhaustion that accompanies a mental illness/personality disorder that is being actively enabled. 

I really feel that you would benefit from some IC regarding your sister and your family’s history of continuing to rescue her instead of allowing her to experience the natural consequences of her own behavior. You grew up with this but it is not normal or healthy — try to discuss this with your husband when you are both calm, do your best to not react defensively and be sure to verbally acknowledge that his reactions are coming from a place of love and concern, not because he is controlling or selfish. This is a difficult situation but don’t allow it to fester and poison your marriage.


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## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

tigerlily99 said:


> Ok that title was a little sensational because he loves my family and he cares about my sister but she has been going through an ordeal with her mental health and for the past 2 years has been in an 'all about me', won't someone help me, fix me, I'm desperate....then, oh I'm fine, I don't need you, I'm my own person, I don't need my meds, etc.
> 
> It's exhausting and always up and down.
> But she is my family. So I stay in relationship with her. I have worked very hard at maintaining my personal boundaries with her and make time between visits so as to not get overwhelmed. (I am a very empathetic person and have to do this anyway with people.)
> ...


First off, I think you are good sister, human being for caring for someone who's in a mess. 

The reason for your husband's anger is not really because you are paying attention to her, but because his sense of justice can't allow unfairness of irresponsible individuals not facing their own consequences. He's mad at you for thinking that you (and your other family members) are enabling this continued behavior. I believe in tough love and believe that direct help is not always the most needed assistance you can extend to someone you care about. He thinks that perhaps you are even enjoy/not mind at all helping your sister so he cannot logically grasp why you are feeding that behavior. 

What I suggest is, while it is inevitable that you sometimes got to help people, act more irritated than he is. Like just go absolutely berserk at the ridiculousness of the situation and overreact hard even when you don't mean it. Seeing how you are in a situation where you are forced to take action against your will, your husband might back off a bit knowing that you already feel that strong emotion he does. 

I've done this with my wife a few times and she usually ended up trying to comfort me instead of giving me crap about it. It may work for you too.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Too much drama. I have a SIL just like your H has your sister. We do not put up with it any longer. Your H is right. You don't cut complete ties but stop enabling.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I disagree.
> 
> The chances are 50/50 at BEST that the OP will still be married to this controlling bully her entire lifetime.
> 
> The chances that her sister will *ALWAYS* be her sister are 100%.


Yeah she will be alone and still holding her sister's hand and fixing her sister's messes.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Its the sister who is at fault here, and the family who have enabled her behaviour for far too long. He is a man at the end of his tether, he isn't a bully at all. He is a good caring husband trying to protect his wife and marriage.


Yeah. Because mentally ill people are not really ill, right?

They just need to pull themselves together, grow a pair, etc., etc., etc.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Yeah. Because mentally ill people are not really ill, right?
> 
> They just need to pull themselves together, grow a pair, etc., etc., etc.


She clearly likes the drama and attention. There are many people like this who are not mentally ill, just toxic trouble makers.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

tigerlily99 said:


> Ok that title was a little sensational because he loves my family and he cares about my sister but she has been going through an ordeal with her mental health and for the past 2 years has been in an 'all about me', won't someone help me, fix me, I'm desperate....then, oh I'm fine, I don't need you, I'm my own person, I don't need my meds, etc.
> 
> It's exhausting and always up and down.
> But she is my family. So I stay in relationship with her. I have worked very hard at maintaining my personal boundaries with her and make time between visits so as to not get overwhelmed. (I am a very empathetic person and have to do this anyway with people.)
> ...


Coping with a mentally ill family member is often a thankless task.

Other people have been through it, so help is available.

Here are some resources that might be of help to you, your husband and your family:-

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/serious-mental-illness.aspx
https://www.mentalhealth.gov/talk/friends-family-members/index.html
Family Support Foundation for Mental Illness
https://psychcentral.com/lib/15-ways-to-support-a-loved-one-with-serious-mental-illness/
https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz...3WAhUGmBoKHSDgDA4Q1QIIkAEoAQ&biw=1920&bih=949


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> She clearly likes the drama and attention. There are many people like this who are not mentally ill, just toxic trouble makers.


You comment is tendentious, unhelpful and utterly irrelevant. 

The original post clearly states that the sister is receiving medical care for psychiatric problems but, as many people do who are receiving such drug therapy, stops taking them because they believe they are no longer mentally ill. Which was true, but only because they had taken their prescribed medicine.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> You comment is tendentious, unhelpful and utterly irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> The original post clearly states that the sister is receiving medical care for psychiatric problems but, as many people do who are receiving such drug therapy, stops taking them because they believe they are no longer mentally ill. Which was true, but only because they had taken their prescribed medicine.




As a nurse I frequently run into this — “I stopped taking my ________ (blood pressure, antacid, antidepressant, mental illness meds) because I felt so much better! I don’t understand why I’m feeling poorly again!” 

You have a medical condition that requires specific medication to control. You feel better on the meds because they are treating whatever disease process/ disorder/ condition you have that required medication. You are not cured, your condition is merely controlled while taking medication as directed.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

KaraBoo0723 said:


> As a nurse I frequently run into this — “I stopped taking my ________ (blood pressure, antacid, antidepressant, mental illness meds) because I felt so much better! I don’t understand why I’m feeling poorly again!”
> 
> You have a medical condition that requires specific medication to control. You feel better on the meds because they are treating whatever disease process/ disorder/ condition you have that required medication. You are not cured, your condition is merely controlled while taking medication as directed.


Yes so why stop taking it if you know you are going to cause distress and disaster unless you really want the attention and drama? Sometimes the attention that you get from an illness/condition is hard to let go of and you end up making others emotionally ill because of it. Those others need to protect their own mental health and families to a large extent.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Wow! This is why I love TAM thank you for all of the input. 
All sides too! 

I'm sorry for not responding sooner. I have been reading up for the past couple days but with no chance to type up a response.

I appreciate all of those who have helped me see my hubby's point of view and that his anger really is out of love and concern for me. Also the person who described the toll that my emotional pain over my sister takes on my h and the family even though I am doing all of the stuff I need to do, was really helpful to me. ( @brooklynAnn )

Something that I feel is an important piece of this particular puzzle is that this has not been going on for years as assumed. My sister was pretty normal as far as any of us can tell until about 3 years ago. She had a mental/emotional break down and has been up and down ever since.
So as a family we are still just barely figuring any of this out. I think it's only been recently that we've admitted that she is not getting better.

So anyway, I did have a good talk with my H and we arrived at the conclusion that we are all on a trajectory of understanding in this and he has just arrived at an inevitable conclusion sooner than me. 
(My paraphrase to him and he agreed.)

Also, I am very appreciative to @MattMatt for the links about supporting a family member with mental illness. I am looking forward to going over them.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I think that there are times when its appropriate to cut off a family member, I know people who have had to do this for the sake of their mental/emotional health, but here you can tell her that you will still see her but ONLY if she stops the way he is behaving and starts taking responsibility for her actions. Then its her choice, act badly and loose your contact or act like a mature adult and keep it. She needs to be given clear boundaries as to what is acceptable behaviour. This is what is usually done when children are growing up, but with her it seems this never happened.
> 
> Sometimes love has to be tough and she will never change unless she is forced to take full responsibility for her actions, and that may mean not seeing you for a time.



What you said here is really interesting especially about clear boundaries not being given in childhood so now they have to established.
My husband is a big proponent of 'tough love' and I rarely agree with when and how he chooses to pull out that 'tool'. 
BUT I see that I do need to adopt some tough love tools that work for me.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

DaveinOC said:


> First off, I think you are good sister, human being for caring for someone who's in a mess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I love this advice. I think it makes a lot of sense. I try to be calm and collected in order to keep the peace and when he sees me like that he thinks I feel it's no big deal. He starts telling me all the reasons I shouldn't do what I'm doing and then complains that I don't listen to him. Literally what I'm saying is, I know! I feel the same way!
But I think my upset level isn't high enough for him to register that I'm actually upset!


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

I think you have a lot more going on than just a sister problem. You husband saw you stressed and decided to make it worse by attempting to punish you if you weren't home on time. It's completely understandable that he is upset, concerned, and thinks your sister needs to face consequences for having a medical issue she has no control over and how that impacts yours and his life but his response is not helpful in any way. Additionally, if all of your family members treated your sister the way he wants you to treat her, there is a good chance that she will be one of the crazy homeless people you see on the streets. If she's not getting better, she's not going to magically turn around when her family turns their backs on her. She could only get worse, make more bad decisions, and keep putting herself in bad situations by relying on others to help her. When the mental health hospital closed near my town, people who had no family or had a family not willing to taken them in ended up on the streets and have been there for nearly 20 years if the cold doesn't get them in the winter. I wouldn't wish that kind of life on anyone.

She has a legitimate medical issue. Ask if he would treat her like this if she had cancer and called you because she desperately needed a ride to chemo. Would he insist on you not bailing her out? Would he expect her to walk? She didn't choose the illness. She didn't ask for the illness. It was likely burried in her genetic make up the whole time. She may have wildly different symptoms but her condition is no more her fault than breast cancer would be. That is something he needs to understand. You can't tough love away cancer and you can't tough love away mental illness. It's okay to set boundaries but asking you to cut her off for something she has no control over is downright cruel. 

Your best bet is to see a marriage counselor. You need someone to help open the lines of communication up between you two and who can appropriately challenge your husband's views about mental illness. You need to do this now before he becomes so resentful that this is an issue worth divorcing over. It's not fair to anyone if he wants to divorce you for having to deal with a sick family member and refusing to cut them out for being sick. As long as your sister is not violent or abusive to you, you are within your rights to determine how much of your time and energy is spent on her. He doesn't get to decide that for you.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

tigerlily99 said:


> I love this advice. I think it makes a lot of sense. I try to be calm and collected in order to keep the peace and when he sees me like that he thinks I feel it's no big deal. He starts telling me all the reasons I shouldn't do what I'm doing and then complains that I don't listen to him. Literally what I'm saying is, I know! I feel the same way!
> But I think my upset level isn't high enough for him to register that I'm actually upset!




One other thing to keep in mind is that most women are programmed to vent about issues or situations that are stressful/upsetting/exhausting to their spouse. However, men are usually not wired that way — they are fixers more than listeners. We vent about our day, looking mostly for a sympathetic ear, a safe place to get out emotions we either can’t or won’t express to other parties involved in whatever is going on. Men can sometimes provide that for us but more often than not their wheels are turning and searching for a solution to the problem. 

With my H, he will hear the issue I’m talking about and tune out the venting parts — he’s so busy trying to fix it that he misses a lot of what I say after. He jumps in with a solution, interrupting me while I talk about how the whole thing makes me FEEL. That makes me feel patronized and trivialized — then he’s totally bewildered how my venting about someone else frequently ends up with me being just as annoyed with him as I am about the original topic. Sound familiar?


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

nekonamida said:


> I think you have a lot more going on than just a sister problem. You husband saw you stressed and decided to make it worse by attempting to punish you if you weren't home on time. It's completely understandable that he is upset, concerned, and thinks your sister needs to face consequences for having a medical issue she has no control over and how that impacts yours and his life but his response is not helpful in any way. Additionally, if all of your family members treated your sister the way he wants you to treat her, there is a good chance that she will be one of the crazy homeless people you see on the streets. If she's not getting better, she's not going to magically turn around when her family turns their backs on her. She could only get worse, make more bad decisions, and keep putting herself in bad situations by relying on others to help her. When the mental health hospital closed near my town, people who had no family or had a family not willing to taken them in ended up on the streets and have been there for nearly 20 years if the cold doesn't get them in the winter. I wouldn't wish that kind of life on anyone.
> 
> She has a legitimate medical issue. Ask if he would treat her like this if she had cancer and called you because she desperately needed a ride to chemo. Would he insist on you not bailing her out? Would he expect her to walk? She didn't choose the illness. She didn't ask for the illness. It was likely burried in her genetic make up the whole time. She may have wildly different symptoms but her condition is no more her fault than breast cancer would be. That is something he needs to understand. You can't tough love away cancer and you can't tough love away mental illness. It's okay to set boundaries but asking you to cut her off for something she has no control over is downright cruel.
> 
> Your best bet is to see a marriage counselor. You need someone to help open the lines of communication up between you two and who can appropriately challenge your husband's views about mental illness. You need to do this now before he becomes so resentful that this is an issue worth divorcing over. It's not fair to anyone if he wants to divorce you for having to deal with a sick family member and refusing to cut them out for being sick. As long as your sister is not violent or abusive to you, you are within your rights to determine how much of your time and energy is spent on her. He doesn't get to decide that for you.




To be fair to him he didn't say any of that stuff about being home on time or making sure dinner was ready, that was me thinking that I needed to make sure his needs were being met before catering to her needs.
Also, he has, up until now been supportive of me as I support my sister. I believe that what happened this week was sort of the proverbial straw that broke him down.

I just felt like you articulated, that it was already such a stressful situation so why did he have to make it worse?

We have since talked and I understand more of where he's coming from and I communicated to him that I need his support and when he became the pressure on me in the midst of our crisis it was really hard for me.
(Since I needed him!)

I think he understands. I'm still a little upset about it, but we all have our pressure thresholds and he is going through some seriously difficult things with his job so he was already under his own pressure. 

I forgive him for blowing his top on me. He did clarify that he's not asking me to cut her out entirely, he just feels I need a break...and so does he.

Now, we just need help figuring out how to help my sis.
I think like you do, just like with cancer or some other physical malady, she isn't choosing to be ill. BUT she does choose to stop taking her meds, to not eat when she should, to do some really weird things like go walking at 2am alone, and suchlike.
During those times she doesn't want anyone to tell her what to do. But then when she's in crisis she wants us to help her and just tell her what to do. 

Im at a loss as to what boundaries it IS ok to have with her.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

What is your sisters medical diagnosis?


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> What is your sisters medical diagnosis?




Borderline personality disorder is the loose diagnosis. I've never talked to her psychiatrist personally but that was what her first therapist suspected and from my research seems acccurate. 
The medication she is on and abruptly stopped for a week is Lamotrigin and Abilify.

From what I know about BPD there isn't actually a medication that treats it but just the symptoms around it, like depression and in her case manic mood swings hence the Lamotrigin.

She can be very lucid and reasonable and wonderful and then just go home and do the exact opposite of what she agreed to.

She does not act out in any sexual ways and she does not use any alcohol or drugs. In fact morally, it is a very important to her to 'do what's right'
This is often what sends her into a weird cycle is if she believes she's done wrong. (Which is never something that can be explained by her it's just a strong feeling or pressure inside of her.)

She is probably anorexic. (Not sure)
She's adorable, tiny and everyone that meets her wants to take care of her and love her...until she has an episode, and then they are so surprised and freaked out they distance themselves from her.

I don't want to give too many more specific details for privacy sake, but hopefully that gives an idea?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I agree with your husband. 

You don't need to cut her out (she's your sister and you love her) but you need distance.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

the proverbial saying here comes to mind.

"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".

OP your words-


> Now, we just need help figuring out how to help my sis.


you have to learn to accept you cant fix this and have done what you can.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

@x598 yes I'm afraid it's true I've done all that I know to do. When she comes to me for advice I kind of feel like saying, when has that ever helped you before? 

I hate that just interacting with her is draining and I have to limit those interactions. 
But I won't ever completely cut her out.

Does anyone have experience with BPD family members?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

If I had to choose.

If I had to choose between a women that would do most anything for anybody that is deserving, or one that lived for herself and maybe her husband, guess which one I would choose.

And family is family. Not to say there are no limits.

Lending a lot of money or putting up with druggies, or flaming alcoholics, no way.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

tigerlily99 said:


> Does anyone have experience with BPD family members?


Tigerlily, yes, I do. I was married to my BPDer exW for 15 years and, throughout that period, I took her to weekly visits with 6 different psychologists. I also took care of my Bipolar-1 foster son for 37 years. Not having met your sister, I cannot tell you what is wrong with her. I can tell you, however, that the behaviors you describe here are warning signs for Bipolar-1, not for BPD.



> I feel is an important piece of this particular puzzle is that this has not been going on for years as assumed. My sister was pretty normal as far as any of us can tell until about 3 years ago. She had a mental/emotional break down and has been up and down ever since.


Yes, Tigerlily, that is a very important piece of information. The onset of Bipolar-1 typically occurs in the age range of 18 to 30 and the average age for onset is 25. So what usually happens is that the person lives a rather normal life until they are in their early twenties and then suddenly start exhibiting strong mood swings between mania and depression. This is what you seem to be describing here.

In contrast, BPD typically is firmly entrenched by age five and starts showing very strong behavioral symptoms in the early teens, when puberty occurs. It usually continues to get worse throughout the teens and then starts to level off -- and is believed to decrease a little starting in the late forties. This is not what you are describing.



> The medication she is on and abruptly stopped for a week is Lamotrigin and Abilify.


The first is an anticonvulsant and the second is an antipsychotic. Both are used to treat Bipolar. I've never heard of them being prescribed for BPD. 



> From what I know about BPD there isn't actually a medication that treats it but just the symptoms around it, like depression and in her case manic mood swings hence the Lamotrigin.


Yes, that is my understanding too. Scientists have not yet developed a medication that can make a dent in BPD. Hence, when BPDers are prescribed meds, those meds are targeted to treating the co-occuring clinical disorders such as depression, anxiety, PTSD, Bipolar, ADHD, or OCD. 

The manic mood swings you mention are a hallmark of Bipolar-1 behavior. Because Bipolar arises from gradual changes in body chemistry, these mood swings typically take a week or two to develop and then last for weeks or months before disappearing entirely. Usually only one or two moods develop each year. If as many as 4 develop, it is called "rapid cycling." (Ultra-rapid cycling is possible but far less common.) This is the behavior you are describing.

In contrast, BPD mood changes occur in just ten seconds. They are triggered by some minor thing you say or do that is misinterpreted by the BPDer as posing a threat to her abandonment fear or engulfment fear. These mood changes occur so quickly and are gone so quickly (usually 5 hours) that I call them mood "flips" instead of "swings." You do not seem to be describing these mood flips. I do note, however, that a person can become very irritable during a manic period.



> She does choose to stop taking her meds, to not eat when she should, to do some really weird things like go walking at 2am alone.


Again, the manic behavior -- i.e., doing really weird things -- is a characteristic of Bipolar-1. Because a manic person usually is too hyper to be able to sleep for more than a few hours, it is common for such a person to go out walking around in the middle of the night. And because the mania oftentimes makes this person feel indestructible and powerful, it is common for the person to go walking into dangerous neighborhoods.



> Borderline personality disorder is the loose diagnosis. I've never talked to her psychiatrist personally but that was what her first therapist suspected and from my research seems acccurate.


It sounds like her psychiatrist may disagree with the "loose diagnosis" of BPD that the first therapist "suspected." The psychiatrist is prescribing two meds that are used to treat Bipolar-1. Another possibility is that the psychiatrist decided that your sister exhibits both disorders. About 36% of females suffering from Bipolar-1 also suffer from full-blown BPD. Similarly, 31% of female BPDers have co-occurring Bipolar-1. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

Based on my experiences with my exW and foster son, I've seen many other differences in the behavior that is typical for each disorder. If you're interested, Tigerlily, you may want to take a quick look at my description of 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences. If it rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to discuss them with you.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Uptown said:


> *One difference* is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. A bipolar-1 sufferer swings between _mania_ and _depression_ and a bipolar-2 sufferer swings between depression and normality (with very little or no mania). In contrast, a BPDer flips back and forth between _loving you_ and _devaluing you_.


Interesting. 
The way you describe loving and devaluing as two sides of a coin. This is a common theme with my sis. She will be so sweet and sincere and wanting to please and then she will 'switch' to treating me like I just kicked her dog and that she is above me and it doesn't matter how logical I am, she lives on another plane it's higher dimension than anything we simpletons could comprehend. These switches can happen in a conversation or in a day or over the course of several days.





Uptown said:


> *A second difference* is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days.


Yeah, way more than 4 in a year! 



Uptown said:


> *A third difference* is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours).


Yes, my sisters upsets can dissipate with a day, but she definitely has clusters of them where she is struggling with this and will be really up and down more often for a week but then have a couple weeks of relative calm. The most calm we saw her was when she was regularly taking the two medications I mentioned. 



Uptown said:


> *A fourth difference* is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action.


I don't know how event triggered her upsets usually are because you can sort of see it brewing. I can hang out with her one time and watch a show, chat about stuff and have a nice time. Then see her a few days later and I feel like I want to get away because I sense she's probably about to blow and I don't want to say that one thing that will be her breaking point. (Once I told her I wanted to talk to her about something and it was something I was s little nervous about telling her. She picked up on that I was nervous and she left the meeting we were in and when I talked to her later she said that she felt pain when I looked at her and she had to get out.)



Uptown said:


> *A fifth difference* is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.


She definitely acts like she never learned to trust anyone and often seems like a very young child. I think she was emotionally stunted from a young age but being a youngest in a big family she was able to sort of keep her feelings inside and no one really noticed. 



Uptown said:


> *A sixth difference* is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly.





Uptown said:


> *A seventh difference* is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You only have to say or do some minor thing to trigger a sudden release of that anger.


Check! But she has strong feelings about anger being wrong so its a constant internal war with it to not let it out.



Uptown said:


> *An eighth difference* is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when he is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.
> 
> BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very worst arguments immediately following the very best of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together.


She had a 2 year plus relationship with her first and only love during time that all of her mental anxiety came to the surface. It almost seemed like the falling in love brought it out. I donno. But her ex had to break it off finally after trying very hard to be optimistic in the face of many freak outs, verbal and physical abuse and complete unpredictability of her moods. After he began IC he made the final decision to end it.



Uptown said:


> *A ninth difference* is that the thinking and behavior of a BPDer includes more mental departures from reality (called "dissociation") wherein "feelings create facts." That is, BPDers typically do not intellectually challenge their intense feelings. Instead, they accept them as accurately reflecting your intentions and motivations. In contrast, bipolar disorder tends to be more neurotic in that the mood swings tend to be based more on extreme exaggerations of fact, not the creation of "fact" out of thin air based solely on feelings.


Wow! The more I read the more convinced I am that she does have BPD. I'm not sure why it didn't show up until later which you say is more indicative of bi-polar. 
She says she remembers feeling the way she does way back into childhood.
Is it possible to have both?




Uptown said:


> *A tenth difference* is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. Sadly, this lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when people cannot trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will.


100x's THIS 



Uptown said:


> *An eleventh difference* is that, whereas BPDers are always convinced they are "The Victim," bipolar sufferers usually have a much stronger self image. BPDers therefore have a strong need to validate that false self image by blaming every misfortune on the spouse.


In my sisters case she doesn't typically blame others but she becomes very young and helpless and hopeless, like a wounded bird. Like, I just need someone to tell me what to do. But she only listens if it fits her narrow view of what she deems truth. (Which fluctuates)



Uptown said:


> *Finally, a twelfth difference* is that, although bipolar sufferers are emotionally unstable, they generally are not immature or childlike. BPDers, in contrast, are so immature that their emotional development typically is frozen at about age four. This is why they have a very fragile self image and have difficulty controlling their emotions.



Age four sounds about right!
@Uptown I genuinely appreciate all the work you put into your response to me and also sharing these 12 differences. 

My family and I are working to find a way to help my sis without burning ourselves out and also without letting her hop fences from one of us to the other without ever being held accountable to her own actions.

It's been exhausting. I absolutely cannot imagine you being married for 15 years to this constant upheaval!

Thank you for using your pain to help others.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I disagree.
> 
> The chances are 50/50 at BEST that the OP will still be married to this controlling bully her entire lifetime.
> 
> The chances that her sister will *ALWAYS* be her sister are 100%.


"SSGI"...........The only thing you "GOT".........is bad advice for the OP, here.........Geeze!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

tigerlily99 said:


> The more I read the more convinced I am that she does have BPD. I'm not sure why it didn't show up until later which you say is more indicative of bi-polar. She says she remembers feeling the way she does way back into childhood.


TigerLily, the human condition is that we all exhibit the nine BPD traits to some degree. Moreover, those of us who are healthy do not remain at the low end of the BPD spectrum throughout our lives. Instead, we may occasionally get flareups of our BPD traits that temporarily place us at the high end of the BPD spectrum. Indeed, the major cause of BPD behaviors is a hormone change, not the BPD disorder itself. 

The way it works is that we all behave like full-blown BPDers 24/7 during our early childhood (which is to say that BPDers behave like young children). Many (if not most) of us start behaving like full-blown BPDers again for a few years when our hormones surge in puberty. Indeed, such a large share of teens behave like BPDers that psychologists generally are very reluctant to diagnose this disorder in anyone younger than 18.

As I noted, these BPD flareups are usually caused by hormone changes. In addition to puberty, these strong hormone changes include PMS, pregnancy, postpartum, and perimenopause (or any other life event starting with the letter "p" -- LOL). Because women are subject to more hormone fluctuations than men, the women tend to have more BPD flareups (but the incidence of the lifetime disorder is the same for both genders). Although they are temporary, these periods sometimes can last two or three years, as can occur during postpartum or perimenopause. Moreover, these flareups can also be caused by drug abuse.

For strong BPD traits to be considered evidence of the full-blown lifetime disorder, the traits must not only be very strong but also persistent over a period of many years. For that reason, and because the lifetime BPD disorder is believed to be established before age five, your sister almost certainly would have exhibited strong BPD symptoms starting in the early teens. Yet, if she really does have full-blown BPD as her therapist suspected, I can think of three reasons why you may have not noticed it until she had that two-year relationship.

*One reason*, as I noted above, is that such a large share of teenagers behave like BPDers that even the professionals are reluctant to try to distinguish those who have temporary BPD flareups (driven by hormone changes) from those who have a persistent disorder that can last a lifetime. Hence, you may have simply attributed your sister's bad behavior to her being a "normal teenager."

*A second reason* is that, because she did not date anyone for very long until the two-year relationship eventually occurred, you may have had no opportunities to see her dysfunctional behavior occurring outside the family. I say this because the vast majority of full-blown BPDers are high functioning. This means they usually get along fine with casual friends, classmates, and total strangers. None of those people pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. It is only when a person makes the mistake of drawing close in a LTR -- as your sister's BF did for two years -- that these fears will be triggered in a high functioning BPDer.

*A third reason* you may have overlooked your sister's BPD traits is that her traits are somewhat atypical for a BPDer. Significantly, all BPDers are filled with enormous hurt and anger, which can be easily triggered by harmless events. Not all of them show that anger in the same way, however. The vast majority -- I would guess 90% to 95% of them -- turn their anger outward on loved ones. It thus is released outwardly in the form of temper tantrums, verbal abuse, and blaming every misfortune on that loved one. These people are sometimes called "loud BPDers" because they release their anger by "acting out" in a very vocal manner, in the same way that young children usually do.

In contrast, the remaining 5% to 10% of BPDers usually do not show outward rages. Most of the time, when you trigger their two fears, they turn their anger inward upon themselves. That is, they are "acting in" instead of "acting out." Not surprisingly, these BPDers are called "quiet borderlines" or "waif borderlines." Significantly, their being "quiet" much of the time does not mean their partners escape punishment. These BPDers typically punish their partners with passive-aggressive snide remarks, icy silence, and cold withdrawal. 

Moreover, they present themselves as helpless victims who cannot do anything for themselves. Granted, all BPDers tend to have the false self identity of being "The Victim." But these quiet BPDers push it to a much higher level and try to milk it for all it is worth. I mention this "quiet borderline" to you only because you state that _"She doesn't typically blame others but she becomes very young and helpless and hopeless, like a wounded bird."_

Because these quiet BPDers constitute only a small share of the BPDer group, it can be difficult to find information about them online. I therefore will suggest three online articles that seem insightful to me. One is A.J. Mahari's blog article, The Quiet Acting-In Borderline. The second is the BPD.com article, What Is a "Quiet" Borderline? A third is Matthew Gemma's article, When You Don't Fit the "Classic" Definition of BPD. Finally, I observe that -- because BPDers are unstable -- their behavior typically is inconsistent. Hence, the quiet BPDers will sometimes act out and be loud when under great stress, and the conventional BPDers will sometimes be quiet and passive aggressive.



> Is it possible to have both?


Yes. Indeed, if she has one disorder there is a good chance of having the other as well. As I noted above (post #42), 36% of females suffering from Bipolar-1 also suffer from full-blown BPD. Similarly, 31% of female BPDers have co-occurring Bipolar-1. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

tigerlily99 said:


> @x598 yes I'm afraid it's true I've done all that I know to do. When she comes to me for advice I kind of feel like saying, when has that ever helped you before?
> 
> I hate that just interacting with her is draining and I have to limit those interactions.
> But I won't ever completely cut her out.
> ...


Have you suggested a psychiatrist? ... Never mind I see you are past that.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

My wife has an annoying, drama queen mooch of an older sister (who is in her late 50's now). She's been married and divorced several time (she does have two kids who are good kids). The woman has to be the most annoying woman alive, and I can't stand her at all. My wife has lent her several thousand $ which were promised to be paid back but have never been paid (it's been several years) - she's also mooched more from her parents, who don't have a ton. She's constantly calling my wife with all of the stupid drama in her life. My wife is afraid to upset her, and gets mad at me when I say anything about her sister that's even remotely negative (she knows that I can't stand her), so I don't even talk about her. Note that their brother can't stand her either, nor can anyone else that we know. 

The point of this is that's it's helped cause a wedge in my marriage (along with some other things, but this is a big one). My wife feels that if her sister needs anything, she needs to give it to her because she's family (and if I speak up and say that giving her sister anything is a mistake, then I'm an a-hole that hates her family). She literally puts her sister and I on equal footing. Instead of telling her no, she gives her what she wants so that her sister won't be upset (and thus makes my wife an enabler). 

Your spouse is first - remember that.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Your spouse is first - remember that.




Thank you Charlie for sharing your story. It IS a good reminder to always put hubby first and listen to what he has to say and not feel I need to defend my sister to him. 
I feel we have grown through this latest upheaval and I have been able to let him know how grateful I am for his support of me as I figure out how to navigate through this tough relationship.

I think I misunderstood him saying not to go that day (my first post) and the subsequent conversations and I believed that he wanted me to disown her because HE was done dealing with her. (Even though he personally does not interact with her)
He has since clarified that he does care about her and that no he's not saying that I should cut off all communication. 

But like you're saying, he does need to know that he is still first. 
A point that I see needs to be reiterated and he needs to be reassured of from time to time.

In my case I need to just be more vocal with him about the many times I do make boundaries with her in order to protect myself and my marriage/family. 
I think he has only seen the yes's and assumes those are the only times she asks for my attention/time.
He assumes I just always jump to her rescue/help when she calls or texts. So I have begun letting him know that I do say no. I do have boundaries and i only give what I can afford. 

Thanks for your reminder.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Do you ever give this sister money?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Your spouse is first - remember that.


I'm going to disagree with that one - especially when said spouse is telling you to cut off family for _*whatever *_reason. It's not his place.

No one tells me to cut off family members unless I and I *alone* choose to do so.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

all this talk of "she's FAMILY" or FAMILY FIRST....I say SO WHAT!!!

if your brother was Dalmer or Manson would you be running to their aide? don't think so.

if your sister drowned her kids in a bath tub, would you run to her aide?

sure, being a PITA drama queen is a far stretch to what the above have done...…still......you surround yourself with quality people and cut out the toxic ones. biologically related or not.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

tigerlily99 said:


> @x598 Does anyone have experience with BPD family members?


I work with people with Borderline Personality Disorder and I've diagnosed it. It's a personality disorder, which means it is ingrained in her, as part of her personality. It can get better but it is a lifelong struggle. Medication can only do so much to mitigate symptoms in a personality disorder. Dialectical Behavioral Therapy has shown success with this diagnosis (DBT). Typical symptoms include drama filled relationships, black and white thinking, emotional dysregulation, suicidal ideation and self-harm attempts like cutting, there is a high risk for suicide with this disorder. I feel it stems from an attachment disorder, they did not learn to regulate appropriately and when there is more chaos in the environment, they feel safer. Strong fear of abandonment and they may 'pre-emptively' strike and cut off communication with someone if they feel that person is going to leave them. In the clinical world, they are generally viewed as impulsive, manipulative, self-destructive, attention seeking, unstable and dramatic. Some clinicians won't work with them. Does this sound like your sister?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

x598 said:


> all this talk of "she's FAMILY" or FAMILY FIRST....I say SO WHAT!!!
> 
> if your brother was Dalmer or Manson would you be running to their aide? don't think so.
> 
> ...


I don't think you should put your family first, or your spouse but your principles. When someone asks you to put them ahead of your principles, you explain to them what a principle is.

OP's sister has problems, and OP has chosen to help her. When to help and when to say "enough" is a personal decision, and not your spouse's. It sounds like OP's H hasn't told her to do this, that is reassuring.

If I ever I tell my spouse she isn't allowed to help people any more, please kill me. First, for the good of humanity, and second, so I don't have to live through the comeuppance I'd have in store.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SpinyNorman said:


> I don't think you should put your family first, or your spouse but your principles. When someone asks you to put them ahead of your principles, you explain to them what a principle is.
> 
> OP's sister has problems, and OP has chosen to help her. When to help and when to say "enough" is a personal decision, and not your spouse's. It sounds like OP's H hasn't told her to do this, that is reassuring.
> 
> If I ever I tell my spouse she isn't allowed to help people any more, please kill me. First, for the good of humanity, and second, so I don't have to live through the comeuppance I'd have in store.


I agree with this to a point, it depends how it effects the spouse. For instance I don't think it is right to give money to anyone without agreement from your spouse, because presumably when we marry we agree to make joint decisions about assets, in my mind this also includes time. Also lets say your sibling is dangerous or a thief, I think it is perfectly reasonable to say I don't want this person around me or in my house. 

I would also say this depends or what type of person your spouse is and how reasonable they are. Sometimes when it comes to people we love we can't see it, where an outsider might. If they have never questions anything like this before and are usually reasonable, maybe they see something you can't. 

I know someone whose kid is a drug addict. In the family the father is done. The kid steals from everyone else in the family and basically created chaos. Showing up very late, causing scenes. Not showing up at family functions or showing up high. The mother can't let go, but it's really ruining the whole entire family. When is enough, enough. They gave the kid rehab even some if the siblings helped pay. He still uses drugs and because the mother doesn't want him to die the mother has taken it on herself to get the kid drugs. This situation is unsustainable, in the end the mother my lose all her kids because the drug addict kid is toxic. 

Some people are down on their luck and need to be helped, but experience has taught me some people are beyond help or take advantage of that help and you are really NOT helping them if you are contributing to their dysfunction. Tough love is sometimes very effective. At the end of the day we are all responsible for our lives and our choices. 

This is not a black or white type of situation.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

tigerlily99 said:


> Ok that title was a little sensational because he loves my family and he cares about my sister but she has been going through an ordeal with her mental health and for the past 2 years has been in an 'all about me', won't someone help me, fix me, I'm desperate....then, oh I'm fine, I don't need you, I'm my own person, I don't need my meds, etc.
> 
> It's exhausting and always up and down.
> But she is my family. So I stay in relationship with her. I have worked very hard at maintaining my personal boundaries with her and make time between visits so as to not get overwhelmed. (I am a very empathetic person and have to do this anyway with people.)
> ...


Your spouse should always come first, if you cannot see that then you should not be married, it is as simple as that. My husband put his mother and family before me at the beginning of our marriage, he didn't see the problem until we moved away to another country, then he began to see how manipulative they could be especially when they needed something from him. 
When he would visit his hometown on company trips, they never bothered about him, if he was having dinner alone, invite him out, etc, but as soon as there is a problem, they need money etc, then they would be his best friends. He realized at the end of the day, I was the one that was always there regardless, so he started putting me first when it came to them, though now I don't care because to my mind he should have done it a lot earlier, not when the he got treated badly and the **** hit the fan. 
When your husband gets to that stage because of all your antics, he also won't care too much, and you will have lost a part of his heart forever, and it will be entirely of your own making.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

It’s interesting that this thread got revived this week since coincidentally there’s been a huge uptick in the amount of drama coming from that direction. I apologize for not responding to any posts, I hadn’t been seeing them since I didn’t have this tagged for notifications.

Since the original posting of this thread I have taken a huge step back in my interactions with her and have only seen her at family gatherings and the occasional event. I’m no longer trying to help her, since she doesn’t really want my help anyway.

I have finally learned that not all family members are allowed full access to my life, just because they’re family. Especially if they cost my current family (husband and kids) more than they are willing to give.

And no, I’ve never given money to my sister @Beach123 only precious time and energy, which I’ve begun to realize cost a lot too.


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Violet28 said:


> I work with people with Borderline Personality Disorder and I've diagnosed it. It's a personality disorder, which means it is ingrained in her, as part of her personality. It can get better but it is a lifelong struggle. Medication can only do so much to mitigate symptoms in a personality disorder. Dialectical Behavioral Therapy has shown success with this diagnosis (DBT). Typical symptoms include drama filled relationships, black and white thinking, emotional dysregulation, suicidal ideation and self-harm attempts like cutting, there is a high risk for suicide with this disorder. I feel it stems from an attachment disorder, they did not learn to regulate appropriately and when there is more chaos in the environment, they feel safer. Strong fear of abandonment and they may 'pre-emptively' strike and cut off communication with someone if they feel that person is going to leave them. In the clinical world, they are generally viewed as impulsive, manipulative, self-destructive, attention seeking, unstable and dramatic. Some clinicians won't work with them. Does this sound like your sister?




Yes, this is very very much my sister. 

I actually was meeting with her bi-weekly for a while to go through the DBT workbook. But she got to where she didn’t want to do it anymore.

I’ve backed off considerably since then.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I agree with this to a point, it depends how it effects the spouse. For instance I don't think it is right to give money to anyone without agreement from your spouse, because presumably when we marry we agree to make joint decisions about assets, in my mind this also includes time. Also lets say your sibling is dangerous or a thief, I think it is perfectly reasonable to say I don't want this person around me or in my house.
> I would also say this depends or what type of person your spouse is and how reasonable they are. Sometimes when it comes to people we love we can't see it, where an outsider might. If they have never questions anything like this before and are usually reasonable, maybe they see something you can't.
> I know someone whose kid is a drug addict. In the family the father is done. The kid steals from everyone else in the family and basically created chaos. Showing up very late, causing scenes. Not showing up at family functions or showing up high. The mother can't let go, but it's really ruining the whole entire family. When is enough, enough. They gave the kid rehab even some if the siblings helped pay. He still uses drugs and because the mother doesn't want him to die the mother has taken it on herself to get the kid drugs. This situation is unsustainable, in the end the mother my lose all her kids because the drug addict kid is toxic.
> 
> ...


I pretty much agree w/ this. You shouldn't spend "our" money w/o consent, you should forbid dangerous people from your home. I read OP to be, H thought she couldn't be helped and forbade OP to help her. OP has since said she wasn't forbidden. So what you're saying I agree with, but think it is difft. from OP's situation.

I agree some people can't be helped, and there is such a thing as enabling. Of course a good spouse will express an opinion where it might help, but I don't think a spouse should forbid helping on the opinion it won't really help.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

tigerlily99 said:


> Yes, this is very very much my sister.
> 
> I actually was meeting with her bi-weekly for a while to go through the DBT workbook. But she got to where she didn’t want to do it anymore.
> 
> I’ve backed off considerably since then.


She is more comfortable when there is chaos and if there is not currently in her environment, she will create it. Strong boundaries are necessary. She doesn't self harm or cut?


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

@Violet28 She DOES hurt herself in ways that don’t leave a mark. Like hitting her head against walls or hitting herself in the head with her hands or objects.


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