# Common theme with 50s yo



## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I didn't want to hijack a thread so I'll start a new one.

I see a common theme with married people in their 50s. The wives want "more" out of their life. They want to start living again, maybe like they did before they had kids (minus clubs and stuff), while the men are comfortable and maybe want to live a more relaxed life. 

I see men be like... I'm married, I work hard, I just want to come home and relax. While women get this boost of something where they still want to go out, they need emotional connection, they have needs... they think hey life is short, I'm not dead and I want to go out and have a good time. 

It just seems like there comes a point where women's needs aren't being fulfilled by their husbands. And the husband becomes exhausted trying to make her happy. 

I don't know what this is. Maybe the fact that women are never satisfied. Women need more to be happy. Men are simple. Women have more energy? Biological differences. 

Anyone else see this as a common theme?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I'd say the reverse is more true for us. But, we both want to travel a lot more, and have started doing that together in earnest. We both wanted to take another dance class, too, and have recently been doing that - which will lead to going out more to dance on weekends. I've been the more social of the two of us for the past decade, and make more of the effort to maintain friendships, and get together with friends.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I could see it happening if the wife was always the one at home raising and dealing with the kids, not going out and finally now her kids are grown and she has some freedom from just being Mom 24/7 and she wants to live a little. 

As far as women need more to be happy, not necessarily for all. Many women give up their whole lives to cater to kids and husband and put their own wants on the backburner for decades until the kids are out of the house. Then it's "me time" 

He should take her out on the town, get dressed up, date, and have fun.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Maybe it's just incompatibility I am seeing. Maybe it's just what I am seeing around me. I would love to see more happy active couples with grown kids. 

I only know one of my friends parents who are like this. They are so into each other, and into their own hobbies. 

Living with my parents is so depressing because it's like... come home, maybe work on the house or yard. Take a nap. And then sit in front of the tv for the rest of the night. Maybe go to the bar with friends for 2 hours.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

That was me in my mid 30s. Wanting more from life and my wife not meeting my needs. I imagine by the 50s the men finally give up. Then they get blamed for not being exciting enough. 


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I think women concentrate so much (too much) on their kids, but once they are grown up they are ready for me time. And it seems when they are ready for me time the men are ready for a nap.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> Maybe it's just incompatibility I am seeing. Maybe it's just what I am seeing around me. I would love to see more happy active couples with grown kids.
> 
> I only know one of my friends parents who are like this. They are so into each other, and into their own hobbies.
> 
> Living with my parents is so depressing because it's like... come home, maybe work on the house or yard. Take a nap. And then sit in front of the tv for the rest of the night. Maybe go to the bar with friends for 2 hours.


Your overall observation may have merit. I see a new thread just started where the wife wants more at midlife, now that the kids are gone. Many couples focus on career and kids, and forget to focus on each other and the marriage. Then, when some of the responsibilities are gone, they no longer have much in common, and have lost the ability to relate to each other positively. Sometimes it can be rediscovered, it there is nothing fundamentally wrong with them, and they are actually compatible. It does take effort to break out of the rut they made for themselves over the years. However, it can be so worth it!

Fortunately, we never got into this rut to begin with, and we are very much into each other, and we do have our separate hobbies, as well as many interests we share.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> I didn't want to hijack a thread so I'll start a new one.
> 
> I see a common theme with married people in their 50s. The wives want "more" out of their life. They want to start living again, maybe like they did before they had kids (minus clubs and stuff), while the men are comfortable and maybe want to live a more relaxed life.
> 
> ...



Definitely not the theme in my home. My W and I are always on the look out for activities to do together outside the home. Day trips, concerts, dinners out. In fact, we spend a lot of time doing things outside the home that some weekends staying in is welcomed with open arms. We are parent of grown adults. Nothing ties us down. My W is game for anything. Unless it is 100 degrees outside and not place to get relief. 

I do not get exhausted trying to make my W happy. My W needs to make herself happy. I need to make myself happy. I do not depend on my W for happiness. Nor she me. However, we are happy together. 

My W came from simple means. She will always state there is poor and then there is (her maiden name) poor. She has nothing growing up. She is satisfied in many areas of her life. Those areas that my W is not generally satisfied are spiritual in nature. 


I do not consider myself simple. My W has less energy than I. I have 8 years on her.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

It's nice to hear that there are indeed happy married couples with grown kids.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Your overall observation may have merit. I see a new thread just started where the wife wants more at midlife, now that the kids are gone. Many couples focus on career and kids, and forget to focus on each other and the marriage. Then, when some of the responsibilities are gone, they no longer have much in common, and have lost the ability to relate to each other positively. *Sometimes it can be rediscovered*, it there is nothing fundamentally wrong with them, and they are actually compatible. It does take effort to break out of the rut they made for themselves over the years. However, it can be so worth it!
> 
> Fortunately, we never got into this rut to begin with, and we are very much into each other, and we do have our separate hobbies, as well as many interests we share.


I like that(in bold). My W and I rediscovered our life together. I learned a lot along the way. Things I was not doing and should have been in our marriage. Rediscovered for sure. 

We too do our separate hobbies but a majority of our time is spend on mutual thing we both really enjoy.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> It's nice to hear that there are indeed happy married couples with grown kids.



But, I will say that I do see what you are seeing. Couples passing like two ships in the night. However, one ship wants to be the Carnival Cruise. The other an old garbage scow. The W appearing to be free of many home duties and wanting to do day trips to wineries and not Walmart. :laugh:


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I didn't want to hijack a thread so I'll start a new one.
> 
> I see a common theme with married people in their 50s. The wives want "more" out of their life. They want to start living again, maybe like they did before they had kids (minus clubs and stuff), while the men are comfortable and maybe want to live a more relaxed life.
> 
> ...


Cant say I have seen this in the women I know who are that sort of age. My husband and I married in our late 40's and we are very similar in what we like to do and not do.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I didn't want to hijack a thread so I'll start a new one.
> 
> I see a common theme with married people in their 50s. The wives want "more" out of their life. They want to start living again, maybe like they did before they had kids (minus clubs and stuff), while the men are comfortable and maybe want to live a more relaxed life.
> 
> ...


Yeah and another common theme is many of these women show no loyalty and cheat instead of talking or at worst divorcing. There is a man version of this story where he cheats too. 

Personally if the guy is working so hard that he is exhausted yet she is so rested that she is ready to go conquer the world, he should scale back and she should harder job that pays more. That is not how a team works and I am sure she will end up tired too then. I'm sorry but a lot of times this kind of thinking seems like total entitlement on the wife's part especially when lots of times she is not really contributing much financially and completely takes for granted this aspect of what he is doing for them both. She never had a problem with it when it was supporting the kids and her when that is what she wanted. Now though with the kids gone he is not FUN. This is like the guy who is upset his wife/mother of 3 can't always be as sexy as he secretary who is 10 years younger and single. I should add here though as well, if every night is TV night there is a problem with him then too. A normal amount of romance is valid, just like a normal amount of sexiness is too. 

I see in some of these more traditional families the dynamic was her primary role was to take care of the kids, but his was to work hard and provide. His hasn't changed and it seems unfair for her to not acknowledge that and at least try to understand that just because her primary role is over doesn't mean he should just understand that everything has to change now. This is why I see this as pretty much a women's mid life crisis. It's more about her role in society then her marriage or even her husband. If she is not Mother what is she? This points to problems in the marriage already before it got to this point as many times this type of women only thinks of herself as Mother not Wife and Mother. In a sense she left the wife role a long time ago so it's not a stretch to leave him. Hence men should pay attention and challenge their wives if they are too focused on being Mom at the cost of being a Wife. You need both and without them you are in danger and you don't even know it. 

Guys if your wife is telling you you work too hard, but you are struggling to pay the bills make her get a better paying job. (yes I am pushing button's here, lets see who posts) >

Now before the usual comes on here an tells me not all women are like this and not all dynamics are the same, I will just preemptively acknowledge that. I am talking in the very general case of the wives who cheat or walk away. You want to talk about the guys who want there hard working wives to behave like sex-bots all the time, I can get on that all day too.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I could see it happening if the wife was always the one at home raising and dealing with the kids, not going out and finally now her kids are grown and she has some freedom from just being Mom 24/7 and she wants to live a little.
> 
> As far as women need more to be happy, not necessarily for all. Many women give up their whole lives to cater to kids and husband and put their own wants on the backburner for decades until the kids are out of the house. Then it's "me time"
> 
> He should take her out on the town, get dressed up, date, and have fun.


He should make her get a job.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Another thing to consider is illness. As we get older many acquire conditions that take something out of you
> 
> Other conditions make you want to experience more. I have C and so really don't want to f around too much while I'm topside. I don't even sleep much.


Yes, illness can prevent you from doing many things, so if you have any ability to do things together for fun, you should take advantage of that while you can. We hope to have many good years, but know that we may not have them. We've already lost a good decade to an illness that was overcome, finally, so know the value of doing things while we can.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> He should make her get a job.


No where is saying she doesn't have one already.

My kids are now older where I can do more. I have a job and I still feel that freedom from having to be Mom all day long and need babysitters and having no life. Now I can go out and date and have fun. 

Instead of coming home from work, cooking dinner, helping with homework, dealing with sibling fights, giving baths, reading books, fighting over bedtime, then finally going to sleep she just comes home from work and has the night without kids.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No where is saying she doesn't have one already.
> 
> My kids are now older where I can do more. I have a job and I still feel that freedom from having to be Mom all day long and need babysitters and having no life. Now I can go out and date and have fun.
> 
> Instead of coming home from work, cooking dinner, helping with homework, dealing with sibling fights, giving baths, reading books, fighting over bedtime, then finally going to sleep she just comes home from work and has the night without kids.


Why does she have so much free time when he doesn't? Why don't should they both work the same amount of hours now that the kids are grown so you both can retire earlier? Are all the financial responsibilities finished now that the kids are grown? Meaning is collage or all the dept that the accumulated while raising them payed off? I get that her emotional and physical role with raising the kids is over, but he may still be working hard a to fulfill this financial role even if they are gone. Does she even think about that. He may still be right in the middle of the primary job he had as being a parent even when hers is over now. isn't it her role as a wife and co parent to be supporting him or is just because it's over for her she gets to move on. Granting we are talking about a very traditional outlook, most modern couples don't work like this anymore as the women work just as much as the men. And frankly that is a good thing. 

Again his role didn't change he is expected to put is just the same amount of work as she did, but her role did and she has all this free time. Seems pretty unfair to get made a him if he is tired.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, illness can prevent you from doing many things, so if you have any ability to do things together for fun, you should take advantage of that while you can. We hope to have many good years, but know that we may not have them. We've already lost a good decade to an illness that was overcome, finally, so know the value of doing things while we can.




It's funny - I see these retirement commercials - with the bronzed, chiseled, thin husband (with a tiny bit of gray) and the white flowing beach coverup and svelt wife - selling whatever - and I realize most people assume they'll be "thin Elvis" having fun when they retire. They're much more likely to be "bloated, drugged Elvis" or "Dead Elvis" if they wait to long to start having fun


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Why does she have so much free time when he doesn't? Why don't should they both work the same amount of hours now that the kids are grown so you both can retire earlier? Again his role didn't change he is expected to put is just the same amount of work as she did, but her role did and she has all this free time. Seems pretty unfair to get made a him if he is tired.


If it was me and my ex it would mean we finally were doing the same amount of work. I did 8 hours and came home to do all the kid stuff while he sat on his butt tired from work. 

If I stayed until the kids were gone we would still do 8 hours, I wouldn't have my 'second job' anymore and have newfound extra time to do things for myself and he'd still be on his butt tired from work. 

I read a stat that even women who work just as much still do more with the kids and around the house. Kids gone = she has free time she used to spend on the kids and house. That's why she now has free time.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Yeah and another common theme is many of these women show no loyalty and cheat instead of talking or at worst divorcing. There is a man version of this story where he cheats too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I partially agree with this. But many times the women does have a job. And now that her free time is freed up because her kids are grown she has more time and energy to do other things. Doesn't mean she doesn't work. 
I understand what your saying for a stay at home mom. 

What I noticed is that some people just have more energy. And energy isn't all about how hard you work. Some people work hard and still have a ton of energy. Some people don't work hard and don't have any energy. Depression, anxiety, and many health conditions rob people of their energy. 

My MIL has so much energy. She works full time (never wants to retire). She comes home and she is full of energy. While her husband is retired and stays home all day and they have grown children. At the end of the night he goes upstairs early and reads and watches tv and goes to bed early and she is full of energy and bored as can be. Not to be mean but he is dead weight because he doesn't want to do anything and he prevents her from having a fun active life. She is very loyal and respectful and blah blah and wouldn't go out much without him Bc she thinks its inappropriate. 

But my point is... energy doesn't have anything to do necessarily with how hard you work. People who are happy and love their job typically have more energy than those that hate their job. People typically have more energy if they are motivated and steadily busy vs those that are bored with nothing to do.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If it was me and my ex it would mean we finally were doing the same amount of work. I did 8 hours and came home to do all the kid stuff while he sat on his butt tired from work.
> 
> If I stayed until the kids were gone we would still do 8 hours, I wouldn't have my 'second job' anymore and have newfound extra time to do things for myself and he'd still be on his butt tired from work.
> 
> I read a stat that even women who work just as much still do more with the kids and around the house. Kids gone = she has free time she used to spend on the kids and house. That's why she now has free time.


I edited my post but you answered before I was done so I will re-post here.

Are all the financial responsibilities finished now that the kids are grown? Meaning is collage and all the dept that the accumulated while raising them payed off? I get that her primary role of emotional and physical raising the kids is over, but he may still be right in the middle of what was his primary role (financial). That one doesn't just end when they are gone. Does she even think about that? Isn't it her role as a wife and co parent to be supporting him or is just because it's over for her she gets to move on.

Granting we are talking about a very traditional outlook, most modern couples don't work like this anymore as the women work just as much as the men. And frankly that is a good thing.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I can see it going both ways. Maybe its more common for stay at home parents to want "more" out of life once the kids leave?

My wife and I both want as much as we can out of life now. We've both worked all our lives, so maybe that makes our interest in new things similar?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I read a stat that even women who work just as much still do more with the kids and around the house. Kids gone = she has free time she used to spend on the kids and house. That's why she now has free time.



Exactly!! 

I read a study that took men and women (working and not working) and every hour they have to rate their level of stress. The result was depicted on a line graph. After work... around 5-6pm men's stress level came down, it was high at work. Women's stress level was lower at work, and started to climb around 5-6pm.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I partially agree with this. But many times the women does have a job. And now that her free time is freed up because her kids are grown she has more time and energy to do other things. Doesn't mean she doesn't work.
> I understand what your saying for a stay at home mom.
> 
> What I noticed is that some people just have more energy. And energy isn't all about how hard you work. Some people work hard and still have a ton of energy. Some people don't work hard and don't have any energy. Depression, anxiety, and many health conditions rob people of their energy.
> ...


What kind of job? If she had that much free time to dedicate to her kids it's not the same kind of job that say my wife who has no kids and works 60 hours a week at. Sorry it just ain't and it doesn't pay the same. This kind of wife has a job that was supplementing their income or now she has a job that is her passion, those usually don't pay well. Those of us who have done both know the difference. In my mind if that is the case then it's only the case because he is working the kind of job that takes most of your energy and he is doing it precisely so she can have the fun job. The first time she starts getting on him unreasonably about being tired after work he should be like, you're right I am going to scale back and you need to make more that way we can have more free time together. Personally I don't think one person working hard and the other person working for fun is a healthy dynamic in a relationship now a days anyway. It's not good for either person. 

Again just because her primary role as parent is over doesn't mean both theirs is. He may still be right in the middle of his, paying down dept they accumulated supporting her and the kids. It's entitlement to just forget about that.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

My bf has a job he loves and is passionate about AND makes good money. It doesn't have to be either/or. I have a job I enjoy and makes enough money. 

If he's too tired to go out and date his wife and live a little he should be trying to find a way to solve that. Couples need dates and recreation time. 

Kids are gone now, downgrade to a smaller home, get rid of expenses if needed. Making her work more so she's just as tired doesn't accomplish the goal of having more recreation time together.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm not going to offer any recommendations here but being in my 50's and empty nest ish. I think you are missing something. When you are dating pre marriage the relationship is one thing, when you live together it is another thing, when you have kids it is yet another thing, but this thing goes on for 20 Years. That is a long time. The longest time you have done anything in your life up to then. Then poof the kids graduate , move on, hopefully don't move back too much. And after some 20 year you have to reinvent the relationship. It can't be what it has always been. even if you have finally gotten good at being a parent of teens, there are no kids left to fill that structure. Not only does it have to change, it better be the right change because you are starring down another 20 + years at a minimum. It's a tricky transition, and a lot of marriages don't make it through it. There is little in the way of guidance. There is a false idea out there that you just keep doing the things that worked before, but as this thread is showing, that doesn't always work.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> What kind of job? If she had that much free time to dedicate to her kids it's not the same kind of job that say my wife who has no kids and works 60 hours a week at. Sorry it just ain't and it doesn't pay the same. This kind of wife has a job that was supplementing their income or now she has a job that is her passion, those usually don't pay well. Those of us who have done both know the difference. In my mind if that is the case then it's only the case because he is working the kind of job that takes most of your energy and he is doing it precisely so she can have the fun job. The first time she starts getting on him unreasonably about being tired after work he should be like, your right I am going to scale back and you need to make more that way we can have more free time together. Personally I don't think one person working hard and the other person working for fun is a healthy dynamic in a relationship no a days anyway. It's not good for either person.
> 
> 
> 
> Again just because her primary role as parent is over doesn't mean both theirs is. He may still be right in the middle of his, paying down dept they accumulated supporting her and the kids. It's entitlement to just forget about that.




Your talking about one specific case that I don't think is very common. 

As for my MIL I will answer.... she works as a boss for a big company. Her job is more stressful, more responsibility, lots of presentations and blah blah. My FIL worked at a factory, and he made way less, and it was more physical than her job. They both worked really hard at their job, and at home. He retired because he didn't need to work in a job he hated anymore, and plus the factory moved locations so he had no choice. She would never complain to her husband about him being tired, she is not that kind of women. She still works but doesn't have to. She told me she loves to wake up, get dressed up, and work. She loves her job and although it's stressful she loves feeling like she has a purpose and she loves being busy. She would never ever complain to her husband. Trust me. But it's very obvious that she is full of energy and frankly bored and lonely. And In typical Italian fashion... her boredom leads her to be inappropriately involved in her kids lives. (Very common among Italians). 

Your problem is that your making it out to be how much each get paid and I don't think that is fair. Just because one person gets paid more doesn't mean they have more power, more responsibility, more work, etc. and just because one person makes good money doesn't mean that automatically means the other person works for fun. That's actually extremely rude.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> Exactly!!
> 
> I read a study that took men and women (working and not working) and every hour they have to rate their level of stress. The result was depicted on a line graph. After work... around 5-6pm men's stress level came down, it was high at work. Women's stress level was lower at work, and started to climb around 5-6pm.


I don't think this is men or women I think it is the kind of jobs men and women have. Women who work like my wife does feel exactly like the men in the survey. Men and women who work at jobs that are not high powered or stressful probably less stressful. It's just that with the way things are there are still less women in these types of jobs still. That is changing. 

I always find it funny when my Mom met my wife she couldn't relate to how she felt about her job. Why is she always tired from her job, why does she complain about her job so much. My Mom never worked as hard at a job in her life as my wife did to that point. That is not a slight at my Mom but she had always had men providing for her at that point, she never had to carry a mortgage or assume dept in her name, her husbands did that. She was raising me. An even more important role. My wife owned a house by the age of 30. 

Then my Mom divorced my step-dad, which was a good thing, but now her name was on the mortgage. She had to fully support herself, she had to save as if something happened it was all up to her. Suddenly she was working on a career job that was very stressful, particularly because it meant her survival in a way. All of a sudden she is tired on the weekends. She doesn't want to get together during the week as she just wants to go to rest when she gets home. All of a sudden she can now relate.

This is not me saying women don't work as hard as men. My wife works harder then anyone I have ever met. I know and admire many women who do. It's me saying the women who work like that I doubt feel less stress when they are at work. I know they don't because we talk about it. It's just that if for 20 years your role was to be a mom (which is just as if not more valuable) you probably don't have experience at working this kind of soul crushing job, so the kind of work you did was less stressful. Personally I think the ones who did both would tell you work was more stressful.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> I'm not going to offer any recommendations here but being in my 50's and empty nest ish. I think you are missing something. When you are dating pre marriage the relationship is one thing, when you live together it is another thing, when you have kids it is yet another thing, but this thing goes on for 20 Years. That is a long time. The longest time you have done anything in your life up to then. Then poof the kids graduate , move on, hopefully don't move back too much. And after some 20 year you have to reinvent the relationship. It can't be what it has always been. even if you have finally gotten good at being a parent of teens, there are no kids left to fill that structure. Not only does it have to change, it better be the right change because you are starring down another 20 + years at a minimum. It's a tricky transition, and a lot of marriages don't make it through it. There is little in the way of guidance. There is a false idea out there that you just keep doing the things that worked before, but as this thread is showing, that doesn't always work.




I love this.

And to add to this point... IMO it doesn't make sense to stay in that large house with that large yard that you got for the kids. I agree things do have to change, you shouldn't live out of habit you should live with purpose. When your kids are gone... why continue like nothing changed it doesn't make sense.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My bf has a job he loves and is passionate about AND makes good money. It doesn't have to be either/or. I have a job I enjoy and makes enough money.
> 
> If he's too tired to go out and date his wife and live a little he should be trying to find a way to solve that. Couples need dates and recreation time.
> 
> Kids are gone now, downgrade to a smaller home, get rid of expenses if needed. Making her work more so she's just as tired doesn't accomplish the goal of having more recreation time together.


I agree with all of that. If it is possible, if you are hundreds of thousands of dollars in dept which you might be if you are paying off collage dept and the second mortgage you took out on your house. If you are that much in dept then that is not responsible. By all means downgrade the house but both of you need to be working to pay off that dept. All I am saying is both of you should be paying off the dept evenly, or if not it's unfair to complain about how much one person is if they are supplementing your lifestyle.

It is very possible that there is only one empty nester at that point. The primary financial provider is probably still right in the middle of the nest. 

Date night shouldn't even be up for debate, I see that is like a primary requirement regardless of all this. I'm talking about yoga classes every night and cross country trips.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> I don't think this is men or women I think it is the kind of jobs men and women have. Women who work like my wife does feel exactly like the men in the survey. Men and women who work at jobs that are not high powered or stressful probably like them. It's just that with the way things are there are still less women in these types of jobs still. That is changing.


You said your wife has no kids so she's never done the get home from work to still have an entire days worth of kids stuff to take care of after. So her feeling more or less stress after 5-6pm because of the work with the kids doesn't apply. 

We adjust to certain stresses. A Mom adjusts to going to work, coming home and dealing with the kids and home all night.

She adjusts to not sleeping properly for 3 years per kid, when that stops she's not getting _more _sleep but the proper amount of sleep and it suddenly feels like 10 hours! 
When they are gone she becomes just a regular person again and it's not that she has _more _time but the proper amount and suddenly she has a ton of "extra" time to do things.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> I don't think this is men or women I think it is the kind of jobs men and women have. Women who work like my wife does feel exactly like the men in the survey. Men and women who work at jobs that are not high powered or stressful probably like them. It's just that with the way things are there are still less women in these types of jobs still. That is changing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




First of all it's 2017 and most women work and are moms. 

Secondly, I think most people would tell you working at a traditional job is less stressful then taking care of little kids 24/7. 

You keep going back to... hard workers have less energy. This isn't necessarily true. My mom is a stay at home "mom" with grown children. Now that I am home... I see she does nothing all day. She has no energy, and no motivation. She goes to bed at 8pm almost every night. She is tired in a way that sleep doesn't help her if that makes sense. My dad works for fun. He works because he needs to be busy. My dad has so much more energy than my mom.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> First of all it's 2017 and most women work and are moms.
> 
> Secondly, I think most people would tell you working at a traditional job is less stressful then taking care of little kids 24/7.
> 
> You keep going back to... hard workers have less energy. This isn't necessarily true. My mom is a stay at home "mom" with grown children. Now that I am home... I see she does nothing all day. She has no energy, and no motivation. She goes to bed at 8pm almost every night. She is tired in a way that sleep doesn't help her if that makes sense. My dad works for fun. He works because he needs to be busy. My dad has so much more energy than my mom.


All I know is my wife with no kids comes home and complains about the women who do have kids going home right a 5 as they have to be there, or working from home. Something her without them can't do as it would be frowned upon. They don't arrive there at 8 or leave at 6 like my wife does. Look I am only telling you what she tells me. On the other hand I think she works WAY too hard for the payoff. Don't get me started. Anyway...

Yes of course I am speaking in generalities. That is what we do here. I am also giving you the most extreme example of this kind of thinking. Obliviously if one person is just lazy in the relationship then I am going to think that is a problem.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> Your talking about one specific case that I don't think is very common.
> 
> As for my MIL I will answer.... she works as a boss for a big company. Her job is more stressful, more responsibility, lots of presentations and blah blah. My FIL worked at a factory, and he made way less, and it was more physical than her job. They both worked really hard at their job, and at home. He retired because he didn't need to work in a job he hated anymore, and plus the factory moved locations so he had no choice. She would never complain to her husband about him being tired, she is not that kind of women. She still works but doesn't have to. She told me she loves to wake up, get dressed up, and work. She loves her job and although it's stressful she loves feeling like she has a purpose and she loves being busy. She would never ever complain to her husband. Trust me. But it's very obvious that she is full of energy and frankly bored and lonely. And In typical Italian fashion... her boredom leads her to be inappropriately involved in her kids lives. (Very common among Italians).
> 
> Your problem is that your making it out to be how much each get paid and I don't think that is fair. Just because one person gets paid more doesn't mean they have more power, more responsibility, more work, etc. and just because one person makes good money doesn't mean that automatically means the other person works for fun. That's actually extremely rude.


Well I was actually talking about compensation as it relates to dept, with the idea being that the husband in this specific case is working so hard because he needs to pay off dept. But point taken. The difficulty in work doesn't always relate to the compensation for such work. However if you need to pay off dept then you need to get a job that helps you do it difficulty or not. That was really my point. 

In your Mom's case why it her husband's responsibility to entertain her all the time. As long as the activity is a healthy one in context of the marriage I have no issue with it. Granted I am talking about the standard, date nights and typical romance/sex/taking that is required in a healthy relationship.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> All I know is my wife with no kids come home and complains about the women who do have kids going home right a 5 as they have to be there, or working from home. Something her without them can't do as it would be frowned upon. They don't get there at 8 or leave at 6 like my wife does. Look I am only telling you what she tells me. On the other hand I think she works WAY too hard for the payoff. Don't get me started. Anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes of course I am speaking in generalities. That is what we do here. I am also giving you the most extreme example of this kind of thinking. Obliviously if one person is just lazy in the relationship then I am going to think that is a problem.




All I am saying is that it's not black and white. And it's not ok to think my job is more important, my job is more stressful, I work harder. Your wife doesn't know what it's like to have kids, so she shouldn't talk about it. Some people chose a job that isn't stressful. This doesn't mean it's worse or that person doesn't work as hard as the one with a stressful job. Imo your an idiot to pick a stressful job... what do you expect. There are plenty of jobs that aren't stressful and make good money. Also people handle stress differently. One person may think their job is very stressful, while another can do the same job without stress. 

My point I was trying to make is it's not fair to equate a spouses energy level with how hard they work, and the importance of their job.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> All I know is my wife with no kids come home and complains about the women who do have kids going home right a 5 as they have to be there, or working from home. Something her without them can't do as it would be frowned upon. They don't get there at 8 or leave at 6 like my wife does.


With your wife having no kids, I'm sorry but she just can't relate to what it is like. 
They have to leave at 5 because they still have an entire days worth of work to do at home. They can't be there at 8 because they have to figure out how to get themselves + kids out the door and everyone to their own schools and lunches packed. It's busy. 
If you've ever tried to get kids out the door all at the same time you'd know how busy it is. Finding lost shoes and someone has to pee as soon as you get the snowsuit on all the way and then they spill food on their shirt and then lose their darn shoes again! (for real, there are not many places to put shoes... why?!?) oops it's library day, where are the books? 

They started "work" at 6AM, went to other work at 9-5, then back to work at home until they go to sleep. 8-6 would have a lot of free time for a Mom that previously worked doing stuff for 16 hours a day. That's why when these Moms end up without the kids they have so much time that was previously busy.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Well I was actually talking about compensation as it relates to dept, with the idea being that the husband in this specific case is working so hard because he needs to pay off dept. But point taken. The difficulty in work doesn't always relate to the compensation for such work. However if you need to pay off dept then you need to get a job that helps you do it difficulty or not. That was really my point.
> 
> 
> 
> In your Mom's case why it her husband's responsibility to entertain her all the time. As long as the activity is a healthy one in context of the marriage I have no issue with it. Granted I am talking about the standard, date nights and typical romance/sex/taking that is required in a healthy relationship.




Debt is a tricky subject and I don't know anything about it. Of course you should work hard to pay it off. But if one person is financially responsible and the other isn't... that's where it gets tricky. It's not the other persons fault if they got themselves into a sticky situation. 

It's not my dads responsibility to entertain my mom. My mom is her own person. She creates an unhealthy environment for herself and this isn't anyone's fault but her own. My mom is not of healthy mind.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> All I am saying is that it's not black and white. And it's not ok to think my job is more important, my job is more stressful, I work harder. Your wife doesn't know what it's like to have kids, so she shouldn't talk about it. Some people chose a job that isn't stressful. This doesn't mean it's worse or that person doesn't work as hard as the one with a stressful job. Imo your an idiot to pick a stressful job... what do you expect. There are plenty of jobs that aren't stressful and make good money. Also people handle stress differently. One person may think their job is very stressful, while another can do the same job without stress.
> 
> My point I was trying to make is it's not fair to equate a spouses energy level with how hard they work, and the importance of their job.


I see your point. So if the circumstances were to fit in the general way I described them as a lot of them do then I still stick with my point. However in other circumstances then your point is also true. It's also true to say that people have different energy levels. Just like everything else it's one of those things you need to work on and compromise. 

By the jobs become stressful when they weren't. You picked a very lineal line of work in healthcare. Business jobs are not like that though, a lot of times your career path is chosen by what is available at the time. So I don't think it is fair to say your an idiot for picking a stressful job. So many people are working in jobs that they didn't go to school for. They are not working at those jobs by choice, they are working to get paid. 

Anyway you are right on a lot of what you said. 

Why are you worrying about your in-laws. Are you going to divorce? I personally think you are too self-aware to be married to that guy, it would be a waste in my mind. Find someone like you and you will have a great marriage.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> With your wife having no kids, I'm sorry but she just can't relate to what it is like.
> They have to leave at 5 because they still have an entire days worth of work to do at home. They can't be there at 8 because they have to figure out how to get themselves + kids out the door and everyone to their own schools and lunches packed. It's busy.
> If you've ever tried to get kids out the door all at the same time you'd know how busy it is. Finding lost shoes and someone has to pee as soon as you get the snowsuit on all the way and then they spill food on their shirt and then lose their darn shoes again! (for real, there are not many places to put shoes... why?!?) oops it's library day, where are the books?
> 
> They started "work" at 6AM, went to other work at 9-5, then back to work at home until they go to sleep. 8-6 would have a lot of free time for a Mom that previously worked doing stuff for 16 hours a day. That's why when these Moms end up without the kids they have so much time that was previously busy.


You're right, both my wife and I can't relate. Point taken. Not sure if my wife should care about that though in the context of a coworker but that is not really the point of this thread. Still think my point about one partner being an emptynester while the other is still right in the middle of their role as a parent is valid though.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Why are you worrying about your in-laws. Are you going to divorce? I personally think you are too self-aware to be married to that guy, it would be a waste in my mind. Find someone like you and you will have a great marriage.



Thanks! 
I am divorcing. And I'm not worried about my in laws I just thought their story fit my point. I try to learn from everyone and I learned a lot from them.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> You're right, both my wife and I can't relate. Point taken. Not sure if my wife should care about that though in the context of a coworker but that is not really the point of this thread. Still think my point about one partner being an emptynester while the other is still right in the middle of their role as a parent is valid though.




I don't get this. 

Isn't an empty nester someone whose children flew the coup? Parents who work full time are still empty nesters. 

Also how can one be an empty nester while the other is in the "middle of their role as a parent"? I don't understand this.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> You're right, both my wife and I can't relate. Point taken. Not sure if my wife should care about that though in the context of a coworker but that is not really the point of this thread. Still think my point about one partner being an emptynester while the other is still right in the middle of their role as a parent is valid though.


She's still making and paying bills and debt if they have it too so she's in the same boat he is. 

Having a recreational companion is an important emotional need and one that should be taken seriously. Not just Oh, I work so I'm tired. Figure out how to fix it. 

I'm often feeling tired after work and my BF wants to go out I muster up the energy to and end up having a great time and not too tired. Just a change of routine and getting out of the house can help.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I don't get this.
> 
> Isn't an empty nester someone whose children flew the coup? Parents who work full time are still empty nesters.
> 
> Also how can one be an empty nester while the other is in the "middle of their role as a parent"? I don't understand this.


If you are still paying off dept acquired by or as of a consequence of the kid even if they are not at home anymore.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She's still making and paying bills and debt if they have it too so she's in the same boat he is.
> 
> Having a recreational companion is an important emotional need and one that should be taken seriously. Not just Oh, I work so I'm tired. Figure out how to fix it.
> 
> I'm often feeling tired after work and my BF wants to go out I muster up the energy to and end up having a great time and not too tired. Just a change of routine and getting out of the house can help.


Agreed there are any host of things like this were it is reasonable for one spouse to make an effort for the other even if they don't really feel like it. That's marriage no doubt.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> If you are still paying off dept acquired by or as of a consequence of the kid even if they are not at home anymore.[/
> 
> Oh boy.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Funny you mentioned energy. I'm 57 and sleep 5 or 6 hours a day. I want more fun out of life, including travel and experiences. Wife cares only about material wealth, sleeps 8 or 9 hours a day, and despises any experiential activity.

It works both ways...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

john117 said:


> Funny you mentioned energy. I'm 57 and sleep 5 or 6 hours a day. I want more fun out of life, including travel and experiences. Wife cares only about material wealth, sleeps 8 or 9 hours a day, and despises any experiential activity.
> 
> It works both ways...


 How much sleep we need varies a lot. You are lucky to not need much sleep, most people need 7-8 hours.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, I think you accurately describe some marriages. However, the whole H only wants to relax while W wants to live is somewhat skewed. I think it works both ways. I also think what we are experiencing and what you are witnessing is just more fall out from our rapidly changing world. Think about the typical mid 50's couple. They have been married for around 25 years. 

Now think of all of the changes that have taken place in the past 25 years. Using just my own experience as an example. When I got married, the internet was in its infancy (as far as wide spread public use goes), cell phones were extremely expensive and had limited range and utility (smart phones were unheard of), microwaves were expensive and scarce, desktop computers were non-existent or mainly toys, FaceBook was not around, IM was not around, texting was not around, TV reception was limited, cable TV was limited, there were few 24/7 news channels so most of your news came from local TV or newspapers.

Compare then to now, we have virtually worldwide, instantaneous communications. We can get on our smart phones log into Facebook and find the cute girl (or boy) who sat in front of us in kindergarten that we had a crush on. Between satellite, cable and streaming we can see TV from virtually anywhere in the world. The internet has exploded, microwaves can be had for $29 at Walmart. Heck there weren't Walmarts on every corner back in the day either.

The pace of change that has taken place over the past 25 years has increased dramatically and I would argue beyond the rate to which many humans are able to adapt. And when they do, they do at different rates and on their own terms. Each of us experiences all of these things differently. Most were not around when we met the "soul mate" of our dreams. People change and grow apart. Most of us don't even know what we are want for dinner this evening and is kind of funny to imagine we can know what we want from a partner in a different world 25 years out.

IMO most of the midlife divorces are simply due to two people who have out lived the emotions that brought them together in the first place. I think the H who wants to relax or the W who wants to live are just two examples of how they each have chosen to deal with a world that has changed.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I would say that my wife and I are on the same page. We tend to like to adventure together. Whether it be a new dance class, or day trips or long vacations, it is in our natures to be curious, and so we tend to make "adventuring" plans. So this fall, we are: taking a ballroom dance class, going on an extended weekend to New York, taking in several plays & wandering through several famous neighbourhoods, repainting the livingroom, starting a "cousins" club, starting to plan a "honeymoon" in Paris in the spring. We are in our sixties, and to be frank, our best times are when we are on an "adventure" together.


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