# Married 11 years, divorce pending, please help



## jacksonvile

I really don't know where to start. 

Problems really started back in 2010. We are both going to school in the same program at the same time away from home while renovating a house. She works 1-2 days a week at post office, and the rest of the money is from school loans.

I have been angry over the years due to her actions/inactions, and have been rather negative at times. I admit that this is not how I have always been, and have recently gotten back to the person that I really am.

My wife seems to be having a mid life crisis at the age of 29, I am 32. She feels that her whole life is ruined, and is extremely confused right now.

She met a man, saw him twice, no sex, but sent many sexual texts and pictures. This guy ended up shooting her down, he is in the army, after she expressed her love for someone she did not even know.

The strange thing is that we live together, no other option, she wants me to be her friend. We were still having really great sex, but it hurt me and later past issues form her childhood came out and we stopped having sex. However, she still wants to sleep in the same bed and hold. She also wants to be around me when I stay distant from her.

She wants to love me and be with me, and it makes complete logical sense to do so. I tried the plan A, but I made mistakes because I did not understand what her intentions were and she became really jealous of myself and some other women, that I was either looking at or talking to.

She is now seeing a counselor, but only one session. She has been extremely evil to me and extremely hurtful. She rewrites the past to make me seem far worse than I ever was, and to erase any her past mistakes.

She never takes responsibility for her mistakes, it is always someone else's fault and she is always a Victim, some times she will admit fault, but goes right back. 

I can't move out of this house for at least 6 months, we have so much money sunk into this house ~$50k and $16K credit card debt.

Do I need to adapt the 180 plan? I tried being non-stop positive, however she would get really nasty and bring me right down. I tried to avoid any negative talk, but she won't stop making accusations and then I feel the need to defend myself. I am tried of admitting fault on the same things and having to explain why things turned out this way.

I gave her, her whole life. No one has ever done this much for her, not even her family, not herself, no one.

I am her first everything as well, I really love her and don't know what to do. 

I am going to file the divorce today, that I don't even want. I had the do all the work, she does not want this, but explains that she is not "in love" with me, and can't seem to get over past issues. She has two thoughts going on at the same time, one is stronger in the morning, one is stronger in the evening. I am worried she is crazy, this whole situation is crazy, I feel crazy for even putting up with this, but I love her so much. Should I call her parents, I want her to stay with me no matter what.


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## PBear

She's always the victim? Dude, you're letting her walk all over you and making excuses for staying in a bad situation throughout your post. Start taking control of your life and start working at what you deserve. 

C


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## PHTlump

jacksonvile said:


> She met a man, saw him twice, no sex, but sent many sexual texts and pictures. This guy ended up shooting her down, he is in the army, after she expressed her love for someone she did not even know.


I'm always dubious of claims that two people who have been sexting and sending naked pictures to each other, met and didn't have sex. What other purpose could there be for meeting? But, I suppose it's possible. Either way, I would say it constitutes cheating.



> The strange thing is that we live together, no other option, she wants me to be her friend. We were still having really great sex, but it hurt me and later past issues form her childhood came out and we stopped having sex. However, she still wants to sleep in the same bed and hold. She also wants to be around me when I stay distant from her.


Yes. Cake eating. It's very common. She wants to bang, or try to bang, other men while you giver her a place to live, hold her at night, and reassure her that everything is going to be OK.



> She wants to love me and be with me, and it makes complete logical sense to do so. I tried the plan A, but I made mistakes because I did not understand what her intentions were and she became really jealous of myself and some other women, that I was either looking at or talking to.


Yes. Part of cake eating is that you remain a solid Plan B for her. That means you are not allowed to move on. No other women.



> She has been extremely evil to me and extremely hurtful. She rewrites the past to make me seem far worse than I ever was, and to erase any her past mistakes.


Also typical. It's easier for her to insist that she never loved you, or that the time you forgot her birthday 6 years ago is the reason why she was forced to try to bang other men. I mean, if she just stepped out on you for no good reason, what kind of person would that make her?



> Do I need to adapt the 180 plan? I tried being non-stop positive, however she would get really nasty and bring me right down. I tried to avoid any negative talk, but she won't stop making accusations and then I feel the need to defend myself. I am tried of admitting fault on the same things and having to explain why things turned out this way.


I don't know that you need to adapt the 180. It sounds like you're not running it correctly. The 180 means refusing to engage when she attacks. Don't defend yourself. You're not going to convince her that she's the bad guy. Ever. Period. So stop trying. Accept the fact that, in her mind, she is the good guy and you are the bad guy. When she tries to bait you, ignore her. If she becomes a violent screechtard, leave. Come back hours later when she has had a chance to calm down.



> Should I call her parents, I want her to stay with me no matter what.


Yes, I would call her parents and let them know that you are filing for divorce, and why. But you should know that there is an excellent chance that, just as your wife is rationalizing that you are the bad guy, her parents will do the exact same thing.

However, if you want her to stay with you no matter what, then I you should not file for divorce, and you should accept her cheating and her cake eating. Because it looks like that's what she wants right now. If you want a wife who loves you, is in love with you, and doesn't want to bang other men, then you might have to get another one.

Good luck.


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## Uptown

jacksonvile said:


> She has two thoughts going on at the same time, one is stronger in the morning, one is stronger in the evening. I am worried she is crazy....


Perhaps she is crazy, Jack. That is NOT what you're describing, however. Rather, you are describing a woman who seems to be exhibiting strong traits of a personality disorder that may have been caused by the _"issues from her childhood"_ you mention. I therefore ask whether you've seen strong occurrences of most of the following 18 behaviors:

1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
7. Low self esteem;
8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she often "rewrites history" because she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
Jack, if most of those behaviors sound very familiar, it would be helpful for us to know which are the strongest and most persistent. I will be glad to discuss them with you. If most don't sound familiar, however, please disregard this list. Take care, Jack.


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## 6301

She sent him naked photos and expressed her love for him. 
The only reason they didn't have sex was that they couldn't arrange it. You think that if they had the chance that they wouldn't. She sent him naked photos. If he was in the same room he would be in bed with her. 

Your having great sex with her. Are you a mind reader? Is she thinking of you or him. Right now your a substitute penis and accepting it. 

Friend there are other things in life then a good piece of tail. She has shown you that her feelings for you aren't as important then your feelings for her. 

Stop looking at her from the neck down for a minuet and think with your big head and ask yourself if you deserve better because you not getting it from her. Sex is like pizza. When it's good, it's good and when it's bad............it's still good. 

Find someone with better morals and values. Chances are the sex will be just as good if not better because she will be thinking of you instead of some guy on line.


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## jacksonvile

2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 14, 15, 18

In all fairness, I think that I have some issues as well, some of them stem from her. She would really push me until I would get angry and explode, and if I did not explode she would pursue me and keep forcing the issue.

She keep a lot of thoughts inside her, she is so strong in this respect. I don't know how she holds all this in. 




Uptown said:


> Perhaps she is crazy, Jack. That is NOT what you're describing, however. Rather, you are describing a woman who seems to be exhibiting strong traits of a personality disorder that may have been caused by the _"issues from her childhood"_ you mention. I therefore ask whether you've seen strong occurrences of most of the following 18 behaviors:
> 
> 1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
> 2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
> 3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
> 4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
> 5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
> 6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
> 7. Low self esteem;
> 8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
> 9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
> 10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
> 11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
> 12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
> 13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
> 14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
> 15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
> 16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
> 17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
> 18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she often "rewrites history" because she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
> Jack, if most of those behaviors sound very familiar, it would be helpful for us to know which are the strongest and most persistent. I will be glad to discuss them with you. If most don't sound familiar, however, please disregard this list. Take care, Jack.


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## jacksonvile

She thinks I am super good looking, always has, and I really am. Our sex has always been amazing, she has an orgasm 99.99% of the time, but she would come into me after she was don talking to him.

She also had me tell this guy on the phone we were not married, and I allow them to keep their relationship. She also started a new life at crossfit and told a friend that we were just roomates, then invited me out to dance with them.

She became to evil some how, she used to love me so much, but sometimes I felt that it was not real love but she was throwing her self at me or something that I can't really explain.

She absolutely demands that we stay friends, and fears me not talking to her again. I plan on not talking to her again, and erasing all of our photos as well.

I think she just feels I have betrayed her by being a hot head and forcing her to see reality. She lives in a fantasy world where she should not have to face consequences or accept responsibility for anything.

It backfired on me, I tried to make her independent for the better so that I would not have to be there for her ever waking second. She could not even make choices for herself. She even tries coping my personality, in a way I have given her a self identity and everything in her life. 





6301 said:


> She sent him naked photos and expressed her love for him.
> The only reason they didn't have sex was that they couldn't arrange it. You think that if they had the chance that they wouldn't. She sent him naked photos. If he was in the same room he would be in bed with her.
> 
> Your having great sex with her. Are you a mind reader? Is she thinking of you or him. Right now your a substitute penis and accepting it.
> 
> Friend there are other things in life then a good piece of tail. She has shown you that her feelings for you aren't as important then your feelings for her.
> 
> Stop looking at her from the neck down for a minuet and think with your big head and ask yourself if you deserve better because you not getting it from her. Sex is like pizza. When it's good, it's good and when it's bad............it's still good.
> 
> Find someone with better morals and values. Chances are the sex will be just as good if not better because she will be thinking of you instead of some guy on line.


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## jacksonvile

Wanted to add that I filed for divorce yesterday, stayed away from home. She kept trying to contact me, then found out she had a miscarriage. She thought she might be pregnant, I told her to go to the doctor and get tested before going on birth control. I found out that she did not do this.

I am devastated, I told her that if she was pregnant I wanted that child and would even raise it myself. She had an abortion back in 2010 that she more or less blames on me. I told her I would support her decision what ever that was. We were not in the state to have a child to be honest, mentally, financial, or at the point we were at in our lives.

It has seemed the further she has drawn away from me the more I want her. I almost divorced her 3 times over the past 11 years, due to her behavior. I had to give her ultimatums that were never even met. 

I felt a good time of our relationship I was the father and she was a child. She thought and acted just like a child, and wanted me to take care of her. She has daddy issues as well, not enough attention, and mother does not talk with her.


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## nevergveup

Don't look back and go through with the divorce.
She will always continue with the lies.

She has a pattern and won't change.Find someone
who will love you and be honest.There is many 
out there.


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## manticore

man, I just can't imagine being in your situation, it must be driving you crazy, I am sorry but you evidently allow her behaviour to grow nuts in some ways (like telling other people you were not married), it seem you already took actions to end this situation.

I hope you can move foward and keep doing what is best for you, even if is painful you can allow her to drag you to the bottom of the pit where she is headed.


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## jacksonvile

You guys don't think she is worth it?

She has moments of clarity, she said; "I'm an evil *****, you need to save yourself, I am not worth it, you can do better."

I have invested so much into her, she is a redhead, I find her so great, I had to work so so hard for this.

You are right, I need to let go and move on. I thought it was going to be difficult but when on match.com I see all these guys and I am so much better looking than 99% of them. She was bummed when she found that out. She did not like any of them but two guys, most people don't find her attractive, but I do.

I want her to have my kids, how do I stop feeling this way?


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## Plan 9 from OS

Yeah, I REALLY don't get why you would tell some guy that you were not married to your wife at her request??? Why would you even do something like that???

Maybe I'm going to come across as a jerk here, but why are you two married and going to school in the same program at the same time AND trying to renovate a house all at once??? No better way to try to flush your marriage down the crapper than for the both of you to overextend yourselves so far that you 1) have no time for each other and are 2) poor and 3) in loads of debt. Can anyone see the regret and resentment by doing all of this at once???


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## LongWalk

She is so dependent and messed up. She will torture you because she cannot help herself. Can you live with this insanity?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## manfromlamancha

This is almost too bad to be true!


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## Uptown

> [She shows behaviors] 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 14, 15, 18.


Jack, the 18 behaviors on the list I provided are all classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Of course, you cannot determine whether your W's BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the red flags for BPD. There is  nothing subtle about strong occurrences of traits such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and irrational jealousy.

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether she has most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs. 

You've already recognized 10 of the 18 red flags I mentioned. I suspect that, once you have a better understanding of those warning signs by reading about them, you may recognize more than 10. I suspect, for example, that you're seeing the "black-white thinking" mentioned as *trait #1* even though you exclude that trait from your list. I say this because two of the behaviors you include -- i.e., the all-or-nothing thinking (trait #2) and the flipping between adoration and devaluation (trait #5) -- are common forms of black-white thinking.

Likewise, you may want to also include the behavior of emulating the personality of men she chooses to be around (*trait #17*). I say this because you mention (post 8 above) that _"she could not even make choices for herself. She even tries copying my personality, in a way I have given her a self identity and everything in her life."_ 

Similarly, you may want to include the lack of impulse control (*trait #11*). You describe her as doing various risky things, on impulse and without considering the consequences, such as _"She met a man, saw him twice, ... sent many sexual texts and pictures."_

You also may want to add verbal abuse and temper tantrums (*trait #8*) to your list. This trait seems consistent with your statement that _"she would get really nasty and bring me right down. I tried to avoid any negative talk, but she won't stop making accusations."_ It also seems consistent with your comment that _"She became too evil some how."_


> I felt a good time of our relationship I was the father and she was a child. She thought and acted just like a child, and wanted me to take care of her.


If your W does have most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level, her emotional development likely was frozen (probably by a childhood trauma) at about the level of a four year old child. This is why BPDers (i.e., those having strong traits) typically behave in a very immature manner.


jacksonvile said:


> She keep a lot of thoughts inside her, she is so strong in this respect. I don't know how she holds all this in.


Jack, what do you mean by her "keeping a lot of thoughts inside her"? Can you give us specific examples of this behavior? And what do you mean by "She has two thoughts going on at the same time, one is stronger in the morning, one is stronger in the evening"? What are the "two thoughts"?


> I am worried she is crazy, this whole situation is crazy, I feel crazy for even putting up with this


"Crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling if you've been living for 11 years with a woman having most BPD traits at a strong level. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused spouse or partner feel like he may be losing his mind.


> I really love her and don't know what to do.


Jack, I suggest you read my more detailed description of BPD red flags in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Moreover, given that you've filed for divorce, I would suggest you read a book if most of the BPD traits in my description sound very familiar to you. The book is called _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist.
_


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## tom67

Uptown experienced this first hand.
Please listen to him.


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## jacksonvile

She threatened to kill herself, drop out of school, and to let the house go under. The house is under her name with around $25K of my money plus work I have put into it, and falsified her salary earnings to procure the mortgage. 

She has two other felonies as well that she committed, but was never convicted of anything.

She also offered unlimited sex, yes I am a 9.5 and she is a 10 when it comes to sexual desire. But I kept feeling really empty after the sex, it was never enough, really sucked.



not recognizable said:


> "She also had me tell this guy on the phone we were not married, and I allow them to keep their relationship."
> 
> She HAD you tell him? At gunpoint or something?:scratchhead:


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## jacksonvile

I did not sign on that house, in fact I did not even know how she got the house until later. She was getting that house no matter what.

I can usually handle things like this, and so can our marriage, but not this time. There was just too much, her sister even almost died, and we moved across the country.

It is complicated, I should have just gotten us a nice apartment. In fact I wanted an apartment and for her to quit her job so that we could just concentrate on school, vacation, and travel.

I accept my mistakes. I always have good plans, she does not like them and feels she has waited too long for everything. 

She hit me with, saying that I should be a provider. I made it clear when we married that I wanted a 50/50 relationship and not the traditional husband wife marriage, ie a power couple.



Plan 9 from OS said:


> Yeah, I REALLY don't get why you would tell some guy that you were not married to your wife at her request??? Why would you even do something like that???
> 
> Maybe I'm going to come across as a jerk here, but why are you two married and going to school in the same program at the same time AND trying to renovate a house all at once??? No better way to try to flush your marriage down the crapper than for the both of you to overextend yourselves so far that you 1) have no time for each other and are 2) poor and 3) in loads of debt. Can anyone see the regret and resentment by doing all of this at once???


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## jacksonvile

Yea, I love her that much, and yes she is dependent, but used to be even worse.




LongWalk said:


> She is so dependent and messed up. She will torture you because she cannot help herself. Can you live with this insanity?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## jacksonvile

She was going to keep that guy secret for me for ever, she childhood sexual abuse was a huge one, and just about anything that is emotional really.

Damn, why did I not get out earlier? This story get even stranger guys, I will explain more later, but you will have to hold onto your hats.






Uptown said:


> Jack, the 18 behaviors on the list I provided are all classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Of course, you cannot determine whether your W's BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the red flags for BPD. There is nothing subtle about strong occurrences of traits such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and irrational jealousy.
> 
> I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.
> 
> Rather, at issue is whether she has most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs.
> 
> You've already recognized 10 of the 18 red flags I mentioned. I suspect that, once you have a better understanding of those warning signs by reading about them, you may recognize more than 10. I suspect, for example, that you're seeing the "black-white thinking" mentioned as *trait #1* even though you exclude that trait from your list. I say this because two of the behaviors you include -- i.e., the all-or-nothing thinking (trait #2) and the flipping between adoration and devaluation (trait #5) -- are common forms of black-white thinking.
> 
> Likewise, you may want to also include the behavior of emulating the personality of men she chooses to be around (*trait #17*). I say this because you mention (post 8 above) that _"she could not even make choices for herself. She even tries copying my personality, in a way I have given her a self identity and everything in her life."_
> 
> Similarly, you may want to include the lack of impulse control (*trait #11*). You describe her as doing various risky things, on impulse and without considering the consequences, such as _"She met a man, saw him twice, ... sent many sexual texts and pictures."_
> 
> You also may want to add verbal abuse and temper tantrums (*trait #8*) to your list. This trait seems consistent with your statement that _"she would get really nasty and bring me right down. I tried to avoid any negative talk, but she won't stop making accusations."_ It also seems consistent with your comment that _"She became too evil some how."_If your W does have most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level, her emotional development likely was frozen (probably by a childhood trauma) at about the level of a four year old child. This is why BPDers (i.e., those having strong traits) typically behave in a very immature manner.Jack, what do you mean by her "keeping a lot of thoughts inside her"? Can you give us specific examples of this behavior? And what do you mean by "She has two thoughts going on at the same time, one is stronger in the morning, one is stronger in the evening"? What are the "two thoughts"?"Crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling if you've been living for 11 years with a woman having most BPD traits at a strong level. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused spouse or partner feel like he may be losing his mind.Jack, I suggest you read my more detailed description of BPD red flags in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Moreover, given that you've filed for divorce, I would suggest you read a book if most of the BPD traits in my description sound very familiar to you. The book is called _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist.
> _


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## Nucking Futs

jacksonvile said:


> She was going to keep that guy secret for me for ever, she childhood sexual abuse was a huge one, and just about anything that is emotional really.
> 
> Damn, why did I not get out earlier? This story get even stranger guys, I will explain more later, but you will have to hold onto your hats.


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## marumarku

Uptown said:


> Perhaps she is crazy, Jack. That is NOT what you're describing, however. Rather, you are describing a woman who seems to be exhibiting strong traits of a personality disorder that may have been caused by the _"issues from her childhood"_ you mention. I therefore ask whether you've seen strong occurrences of most of the following 18 behaviors:
> 
> 1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
> 2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
> 3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
> 4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
> 5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
> 6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
> 7. Low self esteem;
> 8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
> 9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
> 10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
> 11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
> 12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
> 13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
> 14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
> 15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
> 16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
> 17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
> 18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she often "rewrites history" because she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
> Jack, if most of those behaviors sound very familiar, it would be helpful for us to know which are the strongest and most persistent. I will be glad to discuss them with you. If most don't sound familiar, however, please disregard this list. Take care, Jack.


I just wanted to say something that is not related to the original post, but it is related with that list...People have to be careful before saying that their partner is a P...

People are not perfect and we can all suffer one or two of this things...The idea is to grow up, and learn how to be a better person...Having low self esteem? I guess everyone has suffered that in one part of their life...

I think that there is a problem when you do this things (or worst things), and you don't even care or recognize that you are doing wrong.

I used to have lack of impulse control, and say whatever I wanted to say without thinking...but now I think better what I am gonna do or say...take a deep breath, and analyze the situation...I realized that I was hurting people feelings with my wrong behavior.

I just feel that someone shouldn't based their decision of divorce in this list, without even talking to your partner, and trying to help (sometimes the don't even know that they are acting wrong)...Many "normal" people would do some of these things...and one day they would realize that they are doing wrong, and change their behavior.

I think that before saying that your partner has a psychological problem, it is better to look for professional help, and find out...


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## Uptown

marumarku said:


> People have to be careful before saying that their partner is a P..."


Maru, I believe everyone on this thread agrees with this statement. This is why nobody advised Jack to try and determine whether his W has a full-blown personality disorder. As I stated in post #14 above, _"Only professionals can make a diagnosis." 
_


> People are not perfect and we can all suffer one or two of this things....Many "normal" people would do some of these things.


We also agree on this, Maru. As I noted above,_Every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she has most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question_ (post #14).​


> I think that before saying that your partner has a psychological problem, it is better to look for professional help, and find out...


Yes, seeking professional help is best. Yet, with professionals charging $150 to $300 per hour, most people are unwilling to see a psychologist unless they first recognize they are facing a potential psychological problem that may be very serious. This is why it is so important to learn the warning signs for the most common PDs, especially when you find yourself in a toxic relationship and have great difficulty in ending it. Although you won't be able to diagnose anyone, you will know when you are in a potentially serious situation that warrants spending time and money seeking professional advice.


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## nuclearnightmare

OP

what I think is, the most likely situation based on your desription and Uptown's observations adn information -- she is simply not marriage material. not capable of it, of being your wife or any other (normal) man's wife.


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## the guy

I don;t think OP is even around...if he is maybe the housing market got a little better for his sitch and he can move on....or he is with the same chick living a crappy life.

Or it was so damn strange he never posted again...who does this..."it was so strange I 'll post later"... and now here it 6 months later and nothing...WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## the guy

I suspect allien abduction?

Now thats really strange!


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## nuclearnightmare

the guy said:


> I don;t think OP is even around...if he is maybe the housing market got a little better for his sitch and he can move on....or he is with the same chick living a crappy life.
> 
> Or it was so damn strange he never posted again...who does this..."it was so strange I 'll post later"... and now here it 6 months later and nothing...WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It's funny how easy it is to dive into an old thread unintentionally. Talking to an empty theater. :lol:


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## memyselfandi

Personality disorder or not..you can't stay with someone you can no longer trust. I don't care if she was intimate with this man or not..she was married to you and thus..destroyed your trust in her.

People can analyze it all they want but the bottom line is how YOU feel about your marriage to her. Can the two of you move on from this with counseling? Is she willing to participate?

These are things you need to consider and I'm sorry to say....to heck with all this analyzing that should be left to a counselor. YOU and only YOU need to decide either by yourself..OR through counseling sessions whether you can make this marriage work.


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## Jackdaniels

OMG!!! Yes! She hit many of the items listed! [traits] That explains a lot!!!! Double OMG!


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## Jackdaniels

We talked about counseling today after she saw me packing. We sat down and I told her that if we go, she has to keep an open mind and be able to accept what is to come. She agreed. Then we talked a little and she fired "red flares" into the air. What I mean by that is, she went right back to her normal self and would not take any responsibility for her actions, but instead only looking for the smallest fault in me. For example, I brought up not kissing me on my honeymoon. She dodged and tried to turn things around avoiding saying "yes, you are right.". 
Anyway.......I am supposed to see a lawyer next week. Everyone has been great and has really, really helped me!!! Thank you all!


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## MattMatt

Jackdaniels said:


> We talked about counseling today after she saw me packing. We sat down and I told her that if we go, she has to keep an open mind and be able to accept what is to come. She agreed. Then we talked a little and she fired "red flares" into the air. What I mean by that is, she went right back to her normal self and would not take any responsibility for her actions, but instead only looking for the smallest fault in me. For example, I brought up not kissing me on my honeymoon. She dodged and tried to turn things around avoiding saying "yes, you are right.".
> Anyway.......I am supposed to see a lawyer next week. Everyone has been great and has really, really helped me!!! Thank you all!


 @Jackdaniels This is a dormant thread from several years back. You might be better off starting a new thread of your own.


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## bandit.45

Maybe he is the same OP?


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