# My Tawdry Story



## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

Hello, folks!

I am a regular poster on surviving infidelity.com, but my wayward wife has started trolling my posts there to fuel her pity party, so I'm branching out.

Quick highlights of my story: First marriage ended when my wife was unrepentant about infidelity. Divorced when kids were 2 and 5. Absolutely heart-wrenching experience. Rebound marriage failed after I put her through 4 years of med school.

Current nuptial entanglement is going on 21 years. Marriage had its ups and downs, but in the summer of 2014 my wife changed. She became hyper-critical of me, telling me how much she was healing and growing in her AA program, how broken I was, how our relationship felt constraining to her, that she'd outgrown me, blah, blah, blah. She made fun of me for getting a testicular infection from a cancer biopsy procedure. It was unbelievably awful.

This continued for a good (or bad, i should say) six months, until...a year ago tomorrow, I found emails professing love between her and a pain pill addict she'd met in AA. They were apparently soul mates, in lurve, etc…

I confronted her that day, she confessed to the least crime (we flirted, and made out a little bit) to fit the evidence I put forth. We immediately went into false reconciliation which began back sliding only ten days later in her criticism. I went into cyber-sleuth mode and found evidence that it was far worse. Confronted, this time with an ultimatum for the truth, and no detailed evidence. She spewed the tawdry story - every kind of sex, no protection, just awful stuff.

She was immediately regretful and ashamed and things seemed good for a while.

But she refused to answer clarifying questions on the timeline I demanded she write, she began putting limits on what she would and wouldn't indulge of me, eventually declaring she'd forgiven herself and that my pain was mine and mine alone to deal with.

Needless to say, we're about done. I can't take this **** (are we allowed to curse here?) much longer. She is now the victim of a betrayed spouse who gets angry at her and gives her conflicting direction on what he needs.

We have a teenage daughter who is in the cross hairs of all this dysfunction. My wife indulges her and treats her like a best friend, not a daughter. I try to put reasonable limits on what she does (a 1:00 a.m. curfew and phone tracker since her near fatal DWI) and daughter (who found out about her mother's infidelity some time around her wreck) now thinks I'm Satan incarnate, while my wife is projecting all her alcoholic me-me-meism onto the daughter, so she can feel sanctimoniously injured.

Other than that, life is pretty good.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Husburned said:


> eventually declaring she'd forgiven herself and that my pain was mine and mine alone to deal with.


Well, how very big of her! :surprise:

This is a sad story, but my current concern is for the teen daughter who had a DWI and is still allowed a 1AM curfew??? HMM??

Welcome to TAM!


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

P.S. Go to the Social Spot forum and start posting stuff there (there are some games/quiz type threads) to get your post count up high enough to be allowed to have this post moved to the Private Forum if you think she might find you here. I think you have to have 30 posts to access that forum??


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

When will the divorce be final?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Well. Your wife sounds like a complete c*nt. Who makes fun of someone getting an infection from a testicular cancer scare?! I mean they're just your nuts and cancers a pretty scary thing, but hey who am I to judge??

At this point.....WHAT are you trying to save?

I am NOT a proponent of divorce. Even in most infidelity cases because I fully believe that anything can be worked through if BOTH parties are willing. But honestly.....your wife sounds pretty horrendous. I'm not sure why you'd want to be with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry you are here my friend.

You have to run away from you wife.

No love,no respect,turning your own kid against you,making laugh at you when you were sick and the end of the story is her cheating.

She still blames you. Tells you pain is yours and you have to deal with it.

I belive you can find a better wife my friend.

Stay strong.


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## jigga114 (Mar 15, 2015)

I feel your pain OP. Sorry you find yourself in this situation. Trying to R with an unrepentant WW seems to be an exercise in futility. Unless she completely owns her sh*t, and does everything to help you heal, then you may better off ending the M. No-one deserves what you are being served. Good luck brother.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sorry your kid won't grow up the way you want....we all can blame that on your old lady being a phuck up.

For what its worth, as your kid does get older and matures ...all the dumb shyt she did in her youth will bite her in the @ss and will realize how right you were and should have listened....so on her days off from waiting on tables she will bring her handful of kids, over to visit a dad she always loved but never showed when she was in her teens.

So is your dry drunk of an old lady still screwing around on you?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Husburned said:


> Hello, folks!
> 
> I am a regular poster on surviving infidelity.com, but my wayward wife has started trolling my posts there to fuel her pity party, so I'm branching out.
> 
> ...


Such are the dangers of self-help and development with no filter for impressed pride. Of course a manipulator will feign gifts of happiness to others in an effort to place a dark shadow upon you. She is probably telling you what she told the other guy, that you are to blame for her "need" to cheat.

My advice:

Let her be. Don't bother tracking her in any way. Focus on yourself and just be a positive person, for your selfish benefit. Even if you did desire to give forgiveness, the relationship couldn't work with all of this underhanded nonsense. The minute you let her be is the minute you no longer accept her emotional violence.

Relationship Teacher


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## sam59 (Apr 16, 2014)

Husburned,

Followed your story on SI. I think your wife has forgiven herself for what she did to you. I think she feels she has expressed remorse to you and has taken all the steps necessary. 

Your opinion is the only one that really counts . She is done making what she considers an effort , so now it's up to you if it's enough. You are not required to be married to her .


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Lose her like a bad habit! You needn't give her the damn time of day!

Anyone who would chide you for having even a mild form
form of cancer needs to have their literal a$$ kicked! Go get yourself a "piranha" attorney who will come down on her and make her life next to unbearable!

And don't even think of sleeping with her, even in your hornier or drunken moments! She would probably give you some STD malady that would make all other diseases preferable by comparison!

Go get your Webster's Dictionaty, and look up the word "skank!" Provided that my RSXW's picture isn't being used by the Webster's family, as an illustration for the word, your STBXW's will likely be there!
*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

Thanks for the input y'all (I'm from the South).

She's wonderful when things are good. They just haven't been consistently good in a loooong time. Pondering options. Not afraid to be alone, but I know how brutal the process is to get there.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

She is dragging her daughter down with her and destroying her life.

Only an extreme hypocrite would ever state that they forgave themselves when in actuality the impact of their actions if felt most on a different person. 

How old is your daughter ?


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

Daughter is 17, academically successful, but dangerously over indulged by her Mom. Daughter flies into rages where she says unconscionable things, mostly to/at me. "You're a bleeping coward! I am so ashamed if you!" - upon asking her to do the dishes when I was supposed to know she was depressed. While I tried to calm her down and tactfully admonish her, Mom sat mute and then took her aside to comfort her, then berate me for asking her to do the dishes when she was hurting.

The triangle is so ugly. These are the skills she will be taking to college next year.

Something drastic needs to change.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Husburned said:


> Daughter is 17, academically successful, but dangerously over indulged by her Mom. Daughter flies into rages where she says unconscionable things, mostly to/at me. "You're a bleeping coward! I am so ashamed if you!" - upon asking her to do the dishes when I was supposed to know she was depressed. While I tried to calm her down and tactfully admonish her, Mom sat mute and then took her aside to comfort her, then berate me for asking her to do the dishes when she was hurting.
> 
> The triangle is so ugly. These are the skills she will be taking to college next year.
> 
> Something drastic needs to change.


From the limited info. you've given, it does appear you're not in tuned with, or empathetic to some emotional/mental issues your daughter may be having. 

For now, I'm more than willing to take the stance that we are only hearing one side of the story here.


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## Kobold (Dec 5, 2015)

I'm vaguely familiar with your story from reading it at SI. I think I left off at the point where you finally gave her a "talking to"  after she had given you her rehearsed robotic spiel for the umpteenth time. I believe you then invited her to SI and she posted for a little while, but that's about all I can recall. Wasn't she starting to finally "get it" and things were getting better or am I mixing parts of your story up with somebody else's? 

Either way, I second a previous poster's idea to get your post count up to 30 and then ask the mods to move this to private if you don't want your wife reading this.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Husburned said:


> Daughter is 17, academically successful,
> 
> Something drastic needs to change.


Ya ...it will ....your kids goes off to college and your old lady looks for a lawyer.

You don't have to put up with this shyt!


Bad behaviors has consequences! 

After the consequences are faced.... then maybe these two females in your life will get their shyt together and start respecting you?

Besides if you guys divorces then it changes the FASA.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I stopped paying attention when I read the part about making fun of your infection after cancer. That tells me all I need to know about what kind of person she is.


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

SecondTime'Round said:


> From the limited info. you've given, it does appear you're not in tuned with, or empathetic to some emotional/mental issues your daughter may be having.
> 
> For now, I'm more than willing to take the stance that we are only hearing one side of the story here.


Thanks!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Report them to AA.

Report their sponsors for dereliction of duty.

Report the branch of AA to the regional and national organisation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Report them to AA.
> 
> Report their sponsors for dereliction of duty.
> 
> ...


The affair was a year ago. At this point, I'm more concerned with my daughter, the dysfunctional family dynamic and my wife's ongoing recalcitrance than the fact she repeatedly had sex with a junkie.


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## Kobold (Dec 5, 2015)

Husburned said:


> Daughter flies into rages where she says unconscionable things, mostly to/at me. "You're a bleeping coward! I am so ashamed if you!" - upon asking her to do the dishes when I was supposed to know she was depressed. While I tried to calm her down and tactfully admonish her, Mom sat mute and then took her aside to comfort her, then berate me for asking her to do the dishes when she was hurting.


Prepare yourself for a litany of questions. 

1) Were your daughter's words "ashamed/coward" in relation to your situation with your wife or something else?

2) I don't remember if your daughter's fully aware of what your wife did to you, is she? 

3) If so how did your daughter react to the affair? 

4) Is your wife's coddling of her just her way of getting back into her good graces, or has she always played big sis to your father figure? 

5) Does the wife still go to meetings? 

6) Does the OM go to said meetings as well? 

7) Is the WW aware of just how close you are to being done with this sh*t show?

8) What has she actively done so far that would be commendable in regards to helping you and the daughter heal from the damage she's caused?

9) It sounds like you're basically raising two daughters, has this always been the case, or is this a recent development since her affair?

10) Your wife said she forgave herself and that this was basically your cross to bear(or something similar) then I believe she sort of recanted that on SI, did she re-recant and go back to her old self again or was her posting on SI just a bunch of hot air?


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Greetings Husburned.

I've read quite a few of your posts as SI. One that I remember (hopefully correctly) that you thought your wife may not be capable to do the "heavy lifting" that the WS needs to do in their R, whatever that heavy lifting may be, as I believe they vary to each situation, although I think the basics are the same for all.

Its remarkable how a WS can have the determination to betray, yet somehow they can't manage to do basics that we require as part of reconciliation. I always believed your wife could, she just chose not to. I have never believed you were a priority, and that regard of you has been passed to your daughter. We're all believers of actions, not words. And your wife has shown by action, that she is not remotely remorseful for what she has done. Regret, perhaps. That she got caught, certainly. 

I know one of your frustrations at SI was that when you tried to discuss your healing, threads tended to veer off to discussing your daughter. Hopefully that won't happen here. And TAM is different than SI. I always wanted to comment on your thread, but SI banned me because I was one of few posters on SWAT70's thread that stated how he was getting steamrolled by his WW, when the SI community all considered his WW, SoSorry17, as a darling, model FWW. She was not. I think you see more clearly than SWAT did that your wife is trying to steamroll you. 

So I don't think you'll get similar comments here that you did there. Might be a good thing.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Once a woman has repeatedly given herself to another man, she looses respect for the husband. Even though you don't know it's going on, they see you as weak for letting it happen. Yes, it doesn't make sense. 

Now that she's busted and decided to work on marriage, she finds it hard to love and respect you again. If POS would've had his $hit even slightly together and would've been willing to accept her with your daughter, she probably would've left you.

I'm always amazed how quickly WWs want to forgive themselves. Husband not getting over it quickly is seen as his problem. They want their status as wife restored without having to deal with the messiness of a BHs feelings. It's enough that she's still here with you, when she really wishes she could have run off with POS. 

For her to also poison the relationship with your daughter is sad. It just compounds the pain of the betrayal. When even your own flesh and blood turns on you. Your daughter doesn't know how close she was to living in a broken home with mommy running around with her lurver, the "former" druggie. Talk about a situation for possible sexual abuse.

You need to work on being more whole. As long as your looking to her for help with the healing, you'll be in this weakened state. Her remorse tank is empty. To her, you're just needy. It's up to you to restore yourself. It may require pulling away in a modified 180.


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

Kobold said:


> Prepare yourself for a litany of questions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

jsmart said:


> You need to work on being more whole. As long as your looking to her for help with the healing, you'll be in this weakened state. Her remorse tank is empty. To her, you're just needy. It's up to you to restore yourself. It may require pulling away in a modified 180.


Just to clarify, I'm not looking to her to heal me, but I expect her to support me in my healing. She claims to want an intimate relationship with me, yet wants to exclude my pain and anger from the relationship.


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## Imovedforthis (Dec 18, 2015)

Husburned said:


> Just to clarify, I'm not looking to her to heal me, but I expect her to support me in my healing. She claims to want an intimate relationship with me, yet wants to exclude my pain and anger from the relationship.


Are you doing individual counseling for yourself? I think it's normal and somewhat expected of a spouse to want the other spouse to help them with their recovery. From whatever it is. 

Have you been supportive of her pill addiction and her AA meetings? like totally supportive and doing what you can to HELP HER RECOVER? and from the beginning... My husband is a recovery pain pill addict so I know those struggles

If not then perhaps she doesn't feel she needs to do the same for you in your recovery from her affair bc you weren't there for hers..

again, I don't know the story. I haven't been on SI in a year or so and I don't recall your story. 

I think it's cruel for her to make fun of you for the infection you got... not very loving and sympathetic. Is she still being this way? Maybe she has already "checked out" of the marriage and is just going through the ropes so to speak. 

Anyways... I feel it would be best if you work on yourself, for yourself, without her help.... do it alone, for you. You need to get to a place where you are working on yourself without her. What if this moves to divorce and you are clinging to her as a crutch bc it's all you know to do.... just saying- maybe stop looking for her to HELP you in your recovery. She should be and a lot of waywards DO tend to help with the spouses recovery afterwards but not all. 

I had a 3 month affair on my husband and afterwards I did every thing he wanted, answered any question he had and was completely upfront and honest with it all to help his recovery and the pain he was suffering. I was already on SI from his affair so I was familiar with the ropes. 
However; 3 years out since my affair I can honestly say I don't like to be accused of things and called "once a cheater always a cheater", names etc etc... my husband has angry outbursts here and there and all the affair stuff comes to surface.  I honestly can't help him at this point, he needs to help himself as I've done everything I could in the past 3 years to help him ALL WHILE helping myself recover... its not easy having an affair and then have to cope with all the after mass. I had extreme guilt, and still do and STILL have issues with myself for even doing it in the first place. Maybe your wife was the same? So step back... take a look at what you are really asking and what it is you truly want.


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## Femme2016 (Jan 10, 2016)

Sorry about your situation. I can relate to your daughter, I was 16-17 when my parents divorced ( for the second time after remarrying each other) , it was reversed my dad was the one who cheated. My father also had alcohol issues, at first I would side with him as he would try to be my friend and let me do whatever I wanted- "mom is crazy!"- but eventually with time and age I grew a close bond with my mom and have better perspective on the situation. Just try and be there for her as much as you can, she needs you to be the parent -as much as she might protest it now, she will appreciate it in the future


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

arbitrator said:


> *Lose her like a bad habit! You needn't give her the damn time of day!
> 
> Anyone who would chide you for having even a mild form
> form of cancer needs to have their literal a$$ kicked! Go get yourself a "piranha" attorney who will come down on her and make her life next to unbearable!
> ...


Hey Arbi 
Tell us how you really feel !!! :wink2:
VH


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Such are the dangers of self-help and development with no filter for impressed pride. Of course a manipulator will feign gifts of happiness to others in an effort to place a dark shadow upon you. She is probably telling you what she told the other guy, that you are to blame for her "need" to cheat.
> 
> My advice:
> 
> ...


Omg, I actually agree with this. Next jld will tell a man who has a cheating wife that it's not all his fault, and I will be forever lost in a parallel universe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Husburned said:


> The affair was a year ago. At this point, I'm more concerned with my daughter, the dysfunctional family dynamic and my wife's ongoing recalcitrance than the fact she repeatedly had sex with a junkie.


I hate to tell you this my man but the likelihood you can turn your daughter around with the vampire youre married to working against you is nil. Think about the odds of managing your daughter when she knows her mother is a drunk and f-cking around and thinks her daddy is the problem (satan incarnate as you call it). To clue you in, it ain't good. You may need to face up to the possibility that the daughter likes her mother's lifestyle and finds it exciting.
Personally, as P-whipped as you sound standing around with your hands in our pockets while your old lady treats you like dog shyt, and bangs other guys, you probably don't have it in you for much controversy. Both know you'll cave. You're an enabler Husburned.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Husburned said:


> Daughter is 17, academically successful, but dangerously over indulged by her Mom. Daughter flies into rages where she says unconscionable things, mostly to/at me. "You're a bleeping coward! I am so ashamed if you!" - upon asking her to do the dishes when I was supposed to know she was depressed. While I tried to calm her down and tactfully admonish her, Mom sat mute and then took her aside to comfort her, then berate me for asking her to do the dishes when she was hurting.
> 
> The triangle is so ugly. These are the skills she will be taking to college next year.
> 
> Something drastic needs to change.


That is just so far out of line I can't even come up with words for it!

Yes, your daughter might be angry at you for something. But the words she used are horribly abusive. If you said those things to her you might find yourself up on charges of child abuse, and your parental rights terminated by the state. Seriously.

Did her mother teach her to treat you like that?

Beyond that, though, she is obviously in distress. Perhaps it is the tension between you and your wife. Perhaps she just doesn't know how to process the infidelity. Perhaps she feels like she has to take sides, and even though she may not really like it, she has.

You need to get yourself into counseling asap. Hopefully your daughter and might come to a session or two also.

The level of dysfunction is off the charts. Your lack of self respect is showing, too. Nobody deserves to be treated by their spouse or their child the way you are.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Husburned said:


> Hello, folks!
> 
> I am a regular poster on surviving infidelity.com, but my wayward wife has started trolling my posts there to fuel her pity party, so I'm branching out.
> 
> ...


I've seen your posts over at si..you will get better advice here - that place is awful just awful..cheaters there throw pity parties under stop signs....TAM is far suprior...


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

How is your relationship with your children from your first marriage ? what are they doing with ther lives ? What type of relationship does your D17 have with them ?

I don't understand your answer for why D17 called you coward/and is ashamed of you. Could you clarify ?

Finally this s your third marriage. What are the common threads between them?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Your wife doesn't respect you, at all. Her lack of respect bleeds into your daughter. She might not be a bad person to you all the time, but if you ever had the alternative, met a woman that is respectful and kind to you through difficult or sensitive times (like your biopsy), you'll see how much better life can be when you don't have to eat through a sheet sandwich to get to the delicious caramel center. 

Your daughter sounds a bit like a princess. She's already 17, right? I predict she is going to have a roller-coaster young adult life, full of drama, fueled by mom. You have and will have no power in that dysfunctional dynamic. So sad. I am sure others will have better advice on maintaining a relationship with her. 

If I were you I'd let your wife go.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Is your daughter in therapy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

There is little in this world as vicious and hateful as the emotionally unhinged entitled 17 year old female.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ReturntoZero said:


> There is little in this world as vicious and hateful as the emotionally unhinged entitled 17 year old female.


Well now, we do not know what the Mother of the Decade had been telling her. Do we?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

JohnA said:


> How is your relationship with your children from your first marriage ? what are they doing with ther lives ? What type of relationship does your D17 have with them ?


Very good. They are happy, healthy, independent adults in healthy relationships. My son is engaged to an amazing woman. He is an Emergency Veterinarian and she's getting a doctoral degree. My daughter is married to a great, soon-to-be-stay at home Dad. She is a Doctor of Internal Medicine. I don't see them as much as I'd like to of course, mostly because of their grueling schedules and the distances involved. My first wife and I co-parented awkwardly, but apparently successfully. As is the case now, she was the indulgent, while I was the more structured parent.



JohnA said:


> HI don't understand your answer for why D17 called you coward/and is ashamed of you. Could you clarify ?


Honestly, I'm not sure myself. I know our daughter is trying to triangulate us and is openly pleading for us to divorce. FWIW, wHen she's alone with me, things seem fine.



JohnA said:


> Finally this s your third marriage. What are the common threads between them?





JohnA said:


> The $64K question.
> If you believe in Imago theory (which I kind of do), I keep marrying my Dad - gorgeous, brilliant, charismatic types with addiction issues and deeply narcissistic personalities. I have my own codependency issues that I'm working through. To me, stable women are boring. Hence, always crashing in the same car of my dysfunctional choosing.


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Is your daughter in therapy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has been, but is extremely resistant, for the most part, so, currently, no.


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

I should note, while all the events/quotes/recitations are true, they represent the most egregious examples of my wife's behaviors. She is trying and can be warm and loving. Hence, my struggle.


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

> The level of dysfunction is off the charts. Your lack of self respect is showing, too. Nobody deserves to be treated by their spouse or their child the way you are.


I certainly do push back, even though it escalates everything w daughter and wife sits idly by, if not actively indulging daughter.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Husburned said:


> I should note, while all the events/quotes/recitations are true, they represent the most egregious examples of my wife's behaviors. She is trying and can be warm and loving. Hence, my struggle.


When I look at a person, I think of it as a pie you can't cut. 

If you love 80% but there's 20% that you don't like, you need to look hard at that 20%. No matter how great the 80% is, if the 20% is really bad, you just can't live with it, and you can't cut that part out, you're stuck with the whole pie. 

My point is, she might change and she might not. That's on her.

You need to be clear about what you will and will NOT tolerate. Are you a person worthy of basic respect? You can't just think it or say it, you need to act it.


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

Satya said:


> When I look at a person, I think of it as a pie you can't cut.
> 
> If you love 80% but there's 20% that you don't like, you need to look hard at that 20%. No matter how great the 80% is, if the 20% is really bad, you just can't live with it, and you can't cut that part out, you're stuck with the whole pie.
> 
> ...


All true.

I have a pretty healthy self-regard, although the toxic environment that is my home right now, has bruised it quite a bit.

I've been through the divorce meat grinder with kids involved before, so I'm a lot less scared of being alone than going through the tortuous process of getting there.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

JohnA said:
Original post 
HI don't understand your answer for why D17 called you coward/and is ashamed of you. Could you clarify ?

Honestly, I'm not sure myself. I know our daughter is trying to triangulate us and is openly pleading for us to divorce. FWIW, wHen she's alone with me, things seem fine.

Sounds to me she sees the daddy that little girls love and see as the protector is really weak and pathetic by you letting the ***** that she calls mom, **** all over you and you say more please. The image this little girl had of her daddy has been destroyed and you do not even take a stand to try and stop it.

It's right there in black and white......she sees you as a weak and cowardly man because you will not divorce the ***** who rubs the **** in your face.


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> JohnA said:
> Original post
> HI don't understand your answer for why D17 called you coward/and is ashamed of you. Could you clarify ?
> 
> ...


That probably has something to do with it.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

My mom had treated my dad like crap for years and he just took it. I see him as weak and pathetic for not putting an end to this crap. Me and my sister thought it would be nice if she were gone and he could find someone who loved him and he could enjoy the rest of his life.

She even laughs to others that even if she wanted to have sex that dad couldn't get it up.(diabetes)

I told her that was utterly disrespectful and if my wife said that to me I would slap her so hard with divorce papers, she would not be able to get up for a week.

I've even thought, I would not blame him if he had an affair. Mom is a b*tch.

My wife always said to, if your dad dies you and your sister will never go see your mom. I live 20 miles away. See/talk to my dad 4x more than mom.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Husburned said:


> Divinely Favored said:
> 
> 
> > JohnA said:
> ...



Only you can change that!!!!!!!!!! How much longer are you going to eat sh*t and let your daughters dream of a daddy who slays dragons diminish. She is begging for you to take a hard line stand.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Husburned said:


> Daughter is 17, academically successful, but dangerously over indulged by her Mom. Daughter flies into rages where she says unconscionable things, mostly to/at me. "You're a bleeping coward! I am so ashamed if you!" - upon asking her to do the dishes when I was supposed to know she was depressed. While I tried to calm her down and tactfully admonish her, Mom sat mute and then took her aside to comfort her, then berate me for asking her to do the dishes when she was hurting.


That is when you laugh and say 'Oh well, your tears can help fill the sink.' Don't bother admonishing a 17 year old - they're just waiting for you to do that so you become the bad guy. Just shake your head, laugh at her little tantrum, and say 'let me know when you're done.'


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Husburned,

I am one who is routinely horrified by the effect of the selfishness of infidelity on the children. While a BS is reeling from heartbreak and trying to keep things together, the WS typically treats the children as two-dimensional afterthoughts. As the R progresses, the children may suddenly reappear as important to the WS, but there is no guarantee, and by then much damage has been done.

You seem to know that your daughter has to be your focus. Your WW is still busy protecting herself rather than you or your children, so she will not be helpful in doing what is right for your daughter.

Two things:

1) Definitely move this to Private when you can. Also, start a new thread in the Family and Children forum here to get directed help about your DD.

2) Don't despair about your relationship with your teenaged girl, at least not yet. She is at an age where she will resonate with the 'wrong' parent, in this case your WW. If your DD is typical, she will understand soon enough that you have been loving and have had her best interests at heart. Keep doing what you need to do for her emotional welfare. If she isn't in counseling, do your best to get her there. Your WW is currently AWOL where your DD is concerned, so it's up to you.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Get tested for STD's.
See a divorce lawyer

Your wife plays you for a fool and disrespected and
humiliated you in the worst possible way.

If you do not respect yourself then who will?

If the roles were reversed she would not have accepted
this from you so why are you so accepting this from her?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

What are you afraid of? What is it that keeps you from leaving the wife who is abusing you?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Husburned said:


> That probably has something to do with it.


Save the relationship with your daughter and ditch the wife

55

ETA : I have followed your thread on SI and on TAM you will find better advice.

55


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> Save the relationship with your daughter and ditch the wife
> 
> 55
> 
> ...


Its like going from a broken down clunker to a Ferrari


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Husburned said:


> She has been, but is extremely resistant, for the most part, so, currently, no.


There's only so much you can do.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Bring your Daughter back to therapist. I lived once with mother just like your wife is,and belive me I spend ton of money on therapist.

My sister is 18 years old and she still have some problems. 

Dont let this crush you and your daughter.

About your wife,you are better without her my friend. She is evil person.

Stay strong.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Husburned said:


> I am a regular poster on surviving infidelity.com, but my wayward wife has started trolling my posts there to fuel her pity party, so I'm branching out.


Please, I beg you... 

Give her the link to the CWI forum and let her post here. 

Tell her, WS like her are welcomed with opened arms.


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

Thor said:


> What are you afraid of? What is it that keeps you from leaving the wife who is abusing you?


Having been through two divorces, I can state that I am not afraid of being alone, but I know the meat-grinder that the process is and am trying to avoid putting myself and my daughter through it, if I can do so by rebuilding a marriage from its charred remains. That said, I'm well aware of the current trajectory and how it a radical change is needed if we are to avoid divorce.

As for folks advising I get tough, I don't know what to say. The only way I can ratchet up the toughness further is to kick her out of the house. I am very firm in my dealings with wife and daughter. I think my wife is at her breaking point, unable to accept my frequent pointing out of her bull****. I don't feel like I should pander to her feelings, since those feelings are what drove her to make horrible, destructive decisions.


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

Husburned, what about a temporary separation (with a signed MSA to protect you legally/financially)? Best wishes!


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> Only you can change that!!!!!!!!!! How much longer are you going to eat sh*t and let your daughters dream of a daddy who slays dragons diminish. She is begging for you to take a hard line stand.


I'm not interested in perpetuating unrealistic images. I want her to understand what real strength is, even if she can't see it right now. The only harder line I can take is to proceed with divorce, which I know is very much on the table, even though it is a devastating experience.



bryanp said:


> Get tested for STD's.
> See a divorce lawyer


I've already done both.



bryanp said:


> Your wife plays you for a fool and disrespected and
> humiliated you in the worst possible way.


Yes, she did


bryanp said:


> If you do not respect yourself then who will?


I have immense respect for myself. I'm not sure bailing on a relationship of 21 years is the loftiest manifestation of self-respect.


bryanp said:


> If the roles were reversed she would not have accepted
> this from you so why are you so accepting this from her?


I had to chuckle a bit. I am *CERTAINLY* not going to model her anticipated behavior in how I respond to all this


MattMatt said:


> There's only so much you can do.


Matt, this is very true. At this point, it's really defining my boundaries and deciding when they're irrevocably trashed.


Be smart said:


> Bring your Daughter back to therapist. I lived once with mother just like your wife is,and belive me I spend ton of money on therapist.


We could all benefit from family therapy and my daughter from more individual therapy. Daughter is extremely stubborn and refuses either. We can pay for her to silently fume in a therapist's office, but I see no benefit in that.



BetrayedDad said:


> Please, I beg you...
> 
> Give her the link to the CWI forum and let her post here.
> 
> Tell her, WS like her are welcomed with opened arms.


I had asked her to do this very thing on SI. It ended badly, not because of whatever difference there are between these two forums, but because my wife really can't handle tough love, which she will get (deservedly) from both places. She eventually just took to trolling my posts and then showing great umbrage at the comments generated from my posts, inferring them as my opinion of her. Completely ridiculous and unfounded, but there you have it. That's one of the reasons I'm here. She doesn't know about this forum (that I know of).


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Husburned said:


> I had asked her to do this very thing on SI. It ended badly, not because of whatever difference there are between these two forums, but because my wife really can't handle tough love, which she will get (deservedly) from both places. She eventually just took to trolling my posts and then showing great umbrage at the comments generated from my posts, inferring them as my opinion of her. Completely ridiculous and unfounded, but there you have it. That's one of the reasons I'm here. She doesn't know about this forum (that I know of).


She sounds like a real piece of ungrateful garbage. DIVORCE HER. You've already divorced twice what's one more? Because it's been 21 years? Don't fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy. How many more precious years are you going to waste with this unrepentant shrew? You're not getting any younger. If she's not truly remorseful, then there is a 100% chance she will do this again. Maybe next time she'll bring home an STD for you. She disrespects your manhood because you let her. It's as simple as that.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Husburned said:


> I have immense respect for myself. I'm not sure bailing on a relationship of 21 years is the loftiest manifestation of self-respect.
> .


Ahh the old bailing on X long relationship excuse. I like this one. Everyone gets to hide behind it.

Bit of tough advice - You may think you have immense self respect. Yet you allow her to treat you poorly. You do not enforce consequences. 

You are deluding yourself into believing you are taking a higher road.

You aren't bailing. My goodness, stop making excuses for her to whip you more. You would be leaving an abusive and toxic relationship which is damaging to your physical and mental well being.


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## Kobold (Dec 5, 2015)

Husburned said:


> I have immense respect for myself. I'm not sure bailing on a relationship of 21 years is the loftiest manifestation of self-respect.


Thanks for answering my previous list of questions. Now I'm gonna give you my honest assessment of your marriage as you've described it and also of your reaction to the situation you've found yourself in since you appear to be looking for other people's honest input. 

You and another poster who came here from SI are very similar IMO. You both have suffered through this situation for an unreasonable amount of time(him more so) and neither of you seem to be willing to pull the trigger just yet for one reason or another. You both have the same basic complaint about your WW when you boil it down, namely that she simply doesn't get it. He doesn't want to break up his family, you don't wanna feel like you've wasted the last 21 years of your life, both are perfectly understandable, even reasonable concerns IMO. 

You also both appear to have lived this way for so long now that it's become somewhat normal to you and I suspect that you're a little surprised(perhaps even insulted) whenever somebody reacts to your story with complete revulsion as if they're saying how could a man choose to live this way. I think I get that impression largely due to a previous post from you where after everybody reacted the same way to your situation you kinda defended her(and yourself in a sense) by basically saying that your marriage to her isn't all bad. 

Anybody can make their situation sound better in comparison to something obviously worse. A person who has to dodge landmines on their way to get fresh water for their family is clearly in a situation that's worse than your own, but that doesn't change the fact that the marriage you've described to us so far is pretty awful, so much so that when just about every one of us imagines ourselves in your shoes we react the same exact way, with revulsion.

The unfortunate side effect of this teeter tottering between protesting your plight only to leap to her defense when others agree with your gloomy outlook is that your wife knows(or at least strongly believes) that no matter what she does, or doesn't do, she will always have you right where she wants you. She's got you playing a game of mental chess with her, she behaves irrationally expecting you to react a certain way and when you don't react the way she intended she changes up her strategy. 

You may not agree with that assessment, you may claim that she's unaware of what she's doing and that this isn't so much a game to her as it is simply her acting out her pathology in real time. If that's the case then you're married to somebody whose beyond being reasoned with, by you or a trained professional and there's nothing left to salvage here IMO. If she is fully aware of her manipulative behavior then I believe that you really only have three (somewhat)healthy/doable options left. 


1) Continue with the status quo and hope she someday wakes up from her self imposed delusions while you (hopefully)enjoy living your life as if she weren't there(I'm not talking about cheating on her BTW) but simply doing your best to not let her irrational and immoral behavior have such an effect on you that it prevents you from enjoying your daily life. Basically get a bunch of new hobbies and spend a lot of time with friends, but not with the goal of changing her, but simply as a means of enjoying life with or without her. 

2) Stay with her while also taking the hard line stances that get recommended so often(in other words, play her game) in an attempt to actively persuade her while seeming as if you no longer care about persuading her anymore. Do the 180, read the bevy of books that get recommended(NMMNG,MMSLP etc.) hit the gym, possibly draft up divorce papers in an attempt at scaring her straight and a plethora of other behaviors that are pretty much designed to change you in the hope that these new qualities will hopefully lead to her respecting you again when she sees that you no longer need her. 

3) Take your ball and go home, or in less childlike terms you get those divorce papers so many have advised you to seek, but not as an attempt to scare her into behaving rightly, but as your desired outcome(to be truly rid of her) This is where you will inevitably end up at if you happen to get sick of plans 1 & 2.

From what I've read of your story both here and at SI(granted I haven't read all of it) it seems as though you're currently not doing either of the previously listed options, but rather a combination of slowly disconnecting from her emotionally with the occasional bout of giving her the reaction(outbursts) she seeks once you can no longer sustain your desired objectivity to her irrationality. Being around somebody who consistently behaves irrationally could eventually drive you crazy.

I could be wrong, but that's how I'm seeing it from my outsider looking in perspective and if I'm correct then I think it's fair to say that what you're doing/allowing can only go on for so long before it does irrevocable damage to both yourself and your daughter, if it hasn't already.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I find it disturbing that you pointed her to a forum and then she trolled your posts. It sounds so desperate. Almost as it you feel that if she could just see what others are saying about cheating that she'd treat you right. That is not healthy.

You've been married three times so far. Perhaps you need some therapy for you. I'm not blaming you for the cheating, but I do suggest that if you keep buying rotten fruit, perhaps you need help understanding how to pick fruit.

Now, you have this bad apple and you are trying to figure out what to do with it and feel obligated to some extent because you have had the apple so long. Maybe send the apple to store so that it can see how fresh produce looks. That is not going to work.

You need a plan that comes out of a healthy space and leads to a healthy space. Currently, you don't have one.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

From what I've read, both here and at SI, I think your WW is one of those who uses the work of reconciliation to find self-enlightenment (notice the infuriating prefix 'self').

She's proud of progress she's making on herself. Good, right? No, not good, because what's missing is progress she's making on *you*. She continues to not really 'see' you. She views you through a completely self-defined filter and puts on a show of empathy because she thinks that's what you want, but really has no clue how to do it.

Basically, her self-absorption - which made her have an A because it was what she needed to bolster her self-regard - infuses all things, including how she handles you in your R. She's busy finding herself and becoming a 'better person,' absent real remorse or empathy for you.

As a BS, this would enrage me. It's just subtle enough to make it difficult for her to understand why you object, yet obvious enough to you to make you feel like your brain is slowing burning from the inside out.


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

bigfoot said:


> You've been married three times so far. Perhaps you need some therapy for you. I'm not blaming you for the cheating, but I do suggest that if you keep buying rotten fruit, perhaps you need help understanding how to pick fruit.


Obviously true. This is an issue I am exploring in therapy and in side work.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bigfoot said:


> I find it disturbing that you pointed her to a forum and then she trolled your posts. It sounds so desperate. Almost as it you feel that if she could just see what others are saying about cheating that she'd treat you right. That is not healthy.


Right out of No More Mr Nice Guy. It's called covert contracts.
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Husburned said:


> Obviously true. This is an issue I am exploring in therapy and in side work.


What, specifically, have you learned so far?


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Look my friend. I dont even know you but I would never made silly jokes or laugh at you and your medical condition. YOUR WIFE DID THIS. I cant even call her wife,sorry.

You wife used your posts to troll you and probabbly share them with lover so she could make another round of jokes.

Again I would never be like her. I try to help you,to see things from my point of view. 

Would be so much easier for me to kick you down,because you feel so low and so hurt at this moment.

DIVORCE you wife (I have really nice nicknames for her).


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Husburned said:


> My wife indulges her and treats her like a best friend, not a daughter. I try to put reasonable limits on what she does (a 1:00 a.m. curfew and phone tracker since her near fatal DWI) and daughter (who found out about her mother's infidelity some time around her wreck) now thinks I'm Satan incarnate, while my wife is projecting all her alcoholic me-me-meism onto the daughter, so she can feel sanctimoniously injured.
> 
> Other than that, life is pretty good.


Yes, I think I booked on that same cruise ship....

Check out the stuff about the female Mid-life Crisis.
Basically hormones and her childs age has caught up with her, and you no longer matter and there is nothing you can do about it, because literally it is everything to do with her. her hormones, her wants, her mindset, her over identification with the "in-social-crowd".... she is basically "running off with the younger woman" and you're just a painful reminder of the adult world. Remember when you were 14/15 yrs old? We're talking about that level of hormone adjustment. And of course the daughter is the new trendy, and the fun thing as she has interesting friends, and zero responsibilities (and zero baggage).
While that is happening, your wife has written you and everything you have build as a family and all your sacrifices as "too much drama"; and unlike times of old, the modern world will cater to her if she just walks out. She gets to cash up from the table and walk, with all her popular feminist friends patting her on the back for "being herself" and "being a strong woman", all those positive (if inaccurate) backrubs ...all noise and popularity and zero responsibility.

You, my friend, are the dogs leftovers.
Time to start building your own life again from scratch, the person you knew and sacrificed with as your wife, no longer exists.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Welcome. Aaahhh. SI. My standard evidence post got me banned there quite early in my time there.

Hope your day has her driving priveleges revoked. She's gonna kill someone and get you sued to bankrupt.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Your wife appears about as attractive as plague infested dog poop.

Am I missing something?

Why does this creature still have your commitment?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Husburned (Jan 10, 2016)

I need to bow out of this discussion.

I'm okay with tough love, but the level of seething venom on this thread is way beyond just counter-productive. Feel free to use this decision to further deride my codependency traits and inherent weakness.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Jeezzus....Already...... and Bandit hasn't even said a word

HB get you azz back here you will be fine 

Are you going to run ? That's not helpful

When you start showing improvement in your state of mind the 2X4 s will stop and the encouragement will come.

Keep your chin up young man.

55


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Husburned said:


> I'm okay with tough love, but the level of seething venom on this thread is way beyond just counter-productive.


Did anybody explain to you this course is Real World 101? However, nobody's going to hold it against you for dropping it and just going with what you have. You've been in it a while and it ain't killed you yet.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Husburned said:


> I need to bow out of this discussion.
> 
> I'm okay with tough love, but the level of seething venom on this thread is way beyond just counter-productive. Feel free to use this decision to further deride my codependency traits and inherent weakness.


This one is a lost cause folks. Denial is a powerful motivator. We see in all the time in shameless POS cheaters. Some BS fall victim too. They let their fear of being alone destroy all their boundaries. 

He doesn't want to take control of the situation and play the cards he was dealt. He wants his wife to "uncheat" in him and magically turn back into the person she was pretending to be before she showed her true colors.

Bottom line, this guy has decided to take the blue pill. OP, when you're ready to take the red pill and wake up from your nightmare, come back. We'll be here.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

He'll peek but won't speak!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Husburned said:


> I need to bow out of this discussion.
> 
> I'm okay with tough love, but the level of seething venom on this thread is way beyond just counter-productive. Feel free to use this decision to further deride my codependency traits and inherent weakness.


I'm sorry you feel attacked. But it IS tough love and you need to hear it.

Some people word more strongly than others, but all here KNOW what works and what doesn't. Psychologically, women have to respect their men. When the men stay simply because they don't want to give up on X years of marriage, we know what it really means: you realize you can't keep her just based on you alone, you realize she'll cheat on you, so you try to not make waves, in hopes that SHE won't give up on X years of marriage. 

And all the combined wisdom here is telling you the same thing - if you want the best chance for your marriage to survive, you have to be willing to risk losing it by saying "THIS is what I must have from you to be willing to consider staying married to you." And then you have to be willing to act on that if she refuses to give you what you need.

Read some other threads in CWI, if you don't want to post in your own. You'll start to see the pattern. Scared men scramble to justify staying, unwilling to stand up to the women, suffer years of abuse and scorn, and eventually just lose all love for the women scarring their hearts...and leave. Anyway.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Husburned said:


> Having been through two divorces, I can state that I am not afraid of being alone, but I know the meat-grinder that the process is and am trying to avoid putting myself and my daughter through it, if I can do so by rebuilding a marriage from its charred remains. That said, I'm well aware of the current trajectory and how it a radical change is needed if we are to avoid divorce.
> 
> As for folks advising I get tough, I don't know what to say. The only way I can ratchet up the toughness further is to kick her out of the house. I am very firm in my dealings with wife and daughter. I think my wife is at her breaking point, unable to accept my frequent pointing out of her bull****. I don't feel like I should pander to her feelings, since those feelings are what drove her to make horrible, destructive decisions.


Kick your wife out. She is a trainwreck.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

In my opinion, a big difference between SI and TAM is that SI is heavily moderated and offers just the wheat, so to speak. TAM is freer in what it allows and typically offers both the wheat and the chaff. Readers of TAM often come to appreciate the broader range of views and people in general. Adherents of SI really like that the bar for incivility is extremely low.

For me, the result of this is that SI is dominated by BW's who give hugs and solace as you navigate your way along the infidelity curve. TAM is dominated by BH's who are much more likely to want to do what it takes to get a BS ahead of the curve.

I think Husburned would do well to at least keep reading here. He might note the high number of threads in which BS's say, "You guys were right." He has to have a tougher hide to stay around here, as well as a tolerance for the stupid that comes with the territory. What emerges as consensus in terms of creating a better life for the BS is generally a good product, though, I believe.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

When I read SI, which is not often but every now and then, I see an awful lot of empathy and sympathy. I'm sorrys and ((((OP)))). Pity parties, anger, frustrations shared. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just the culture I see over there. 

In comparison, posters come here and unload in the same manner. There's some empathy here, but primarily, TAM gets down to business and asks/challenges, "so, what are you going to DO about it?"

Theres a big difference between feeling better and doing better.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

just got it 55 said:


> Jeezzus....Already...... and Bandit hasn't even said a word
> 
> 55


I don't waste my time trying to help someone who doesn't want help. 

I've read Husburn's threads on SI and the folks over there have preached the same advice as what is being given here. 

Something about the disfunction in his marriage feeds some need deep inside him on a base level, or else he would not have stuck around with that woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Satya said:


> When I read SI, which is not often but every now and then, I see an awful lot of empathy and sympathy. I'm sorrys and ((((OP)))). Pity parties, anger, frustrations shared. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just the culture I see over there.
> 
> In comparison, posters come here and unload in the same manner. There's some empathy here, but primarily, TAM gets down to business and asks/challenges, "so, what are you going to DO about it?"
> 
> Theres a big difference between feeling better and doing better.


But you do have to be much more careful what you say over there, and also at LS. They are VERY sensitive to 'being mean.' I've gotten censured here twice, I think. Over at LS, I've got about 15 reprimands, lol.

I don't go to SI much simply because I can't stand the way the website is set up; you can't set it up to see most current posts, etc.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

HB

Good to talk to you again buddy.

With divorces she's likely treating her this way to leverage you emotions. To manipulate you.

Translation: time to pull the band-aid my man


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

turnera said:


> But you do have to be much more careful what you say over there, and also at LS. They are VERY sensitive to 'being mean.' I've gotten censured here twice, I think. Over at LS, I've got about 15 reprimands, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't go to SI much simply because I can't stand the way the website is set up; you can't set it up to see most current posts, etc.



I was told that I wasn't 'allowed to suggest divorce' to those in reconciliation. 

I did it again when some woman's husband beat the **** out of her, and the cuckold webmaster dude got on my case. I pointed out in a very equitable way the Freudian reasons why he's upset when others take a firm stand on (some forms) of infidelity. He did not take that well lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

turnera said:


> I'm sorry you feel attacked. But it IS tough love and you need to hear it.
> 
> Some people word more strongly than others, but all here KNOW what works and what doesn't. Psychologically, women have to respect their men. When the men stay simply because they don't want to give up on X years of marriage, we know what it really means: you realize you can't keep her just based on you alone, you realize she'll cheat on you, so you try to not make waves, in hopes that SHE won't give up on X years of marriage.
> 
> ...


Absolutely brilliant. Men can ignore this at their own peril.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> In my opinion, a big difference between SI and TAM is that SI is heavily moderated and offers just the wheat, so to speak. TAM is freer in what it allows and typically offers both the wheat and the chaff. Readers of TAM often come to appreciate the broader range of views and people in general. Adherents of SI really like that the bar for incivility is extremely low.
> 
> For me, the result of this is that SI is dominated by BW's who give hugs and solace as you navigate your way along the infidelity curve. TAM is dominated by BH's who are much more likely to want to do what it takes to get a BS ahead of the curve.
> 
> I think Husburned would do well to at least keep reading here. He might note the high number of threads in which BS's say, "You guys were right." He has to have a tougher hide to stay around here, as well as a tolerance for the stupid that comes with the territory. What emerges as consensus in terms of creating a better life for the BS is generally a good product, though, I believe.


SI is founded, owned and operated by a WW - she allows cheaters to whine under stop signs there without being challenged - there is not really a free flow of ideas there - that site is a mess.. @Husburned just keep reading here - even if you dont want to participate but know that the folks here have a lot of good experience...you should also look up Chump lady...you could use her as well..good luck..


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> I'm sorry you feel attacked. But it IS tough love and you need to hear it.
> 
> Some people word more strongly than others, but all here KNOW what works and what doesn't. Psychologically, women have to respect their men. When the men stay simply because they don't want to give up on X years of marriage, we know what it really means: you realize you can't keep her just based on you alone, you realize she'll cheat on you, so you try to not make waves, in hopes that SHE won't give up on X years of marriage.
> 
> ...


The other site seems to nurture that by not challenging the BHs there...I would say the folks running it probably set it up that way intentionally...


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## Kobold (Dec 5, 2015)

I don't think anybody was being mean spirited to the OP, but I'm not too surprised that he felt that way. 

It must be jarring to go from the stop signs and overall mushiness of SI to the brutal honesty of TAM. 

Probably feels like leaving a college safe space with soft music and videos of frolicking puppies playing in the background to suddenly getting choppered into the 'Nam.

Maybe there should be some kinda go between forum people can post on before hand to prepare themselves, sorta like boot camp. 



eric1 said:


> I was told that I wasn't 'allowed to suggest divorce' to those in reconciliation.
> 
> I did it again when some woman's husband beat the **** out of her, and the cuckold webmaster dude got on my case. I pointed out in a very equitable way the Freudian reasons why he's upset when others take a firm stand on (some forms) of infidelity. He did not take that well lol.
> 
> ...


Cuckold webmaster dude? That could be anybody over there, you're gonna have to be more specific. 



Truthseeker1 said:


> SI is founded, owned and operated by a WW - she allows cheaters to whine under stop signs there without being challenged - there is not really a free flow of ideas there - that site is a mess..


Is that the one that's constantly complaining about her BH and pretty much admits to regretting getting remarried to him?


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

I think both forums have their own advantages, so both could benefit greatly from implementing certain features and other elements of the other one.

Husburned, best wishes!


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

"I don't go to SI much simply because I can't stand the way the website is set up; you can't set it up to see most current posts, etc."

I told them I thought they were getting a kickback from Dr. Phil. They didn't appreciate that


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

H, I know the atmosphere here can be somewhat "bracing". And TAM permits anyone to comment on any thread, unlike SI. so you can get good advice, bad advice and advice from those with obsessive agendas. Only truly insane advice or bad behavior gets a ban. We do have an ignore feature for those that get out of hand. 

As a former wayward myself, I can tell you disrespect is a strong sign your WW is not remorseful. Finding ways to call it out and impose consequences will aid both of your recoveries. Not saying you have to D, but you are getting crapped on and taking it, and that's poison in any relationship.


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## roxie1983 (Nov 22, 2015)

Husburned said:


> I need to bow out of this discussion.
> 
> I'm okay with tough love, but the level of seething venom on this thread is way beyond just counter-productive. Feel free to use this decision to further deride my codependency traits and inherent weakness.


Serves everyone right. And OP is correct. 

This thread is a gang of angry, bitter betrayeds who I imagine were left only because they didn't take responsibility of their own healing and moving on (whether reconciling or divorce).

They responses I received here were completely vengeful and full of hatred. I mean that most only had to say "Just divorce" in a site called Talk About Marriage.

Ridiculous!


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

She trolled you on another website? Do you guys actually talk offline?

I'm astounded this would even happen. Crazy.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

Husburned said:


> I need to bow out of this discussion.
> 
> I'm okay with tough love, but the level of seething venom on this thread is way beyond just counter-productive. Feel free to use this decision to further deride my codependency traits and inherent weakness.


I think you need to filter out the hate or report the post being over aggressive... There was some good genuine advice in the thread.

Feel free to come back if you want to. Maybe you were just having a bad day


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Welcome to TAM OP! Lol


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> SI is founded, owned and operated by a WW - she allows cheaters to whine under stop signs there without being challenged - there is not really a free flow of ideas there - that site is a mess.. @Husburned just keep reading here - even if you dont want to participate but know that the folks here have a lot of good experience...you should also look up Chump lady...you could use her as well..good luck..



You really think CWI has a free flow of ideas? It's our way or the highway. It's bullying personified.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> You really think CWI has a free flow of ideas? It's our way or the highway. It's bullying personified.


You can advise anything short of violence. But you will be rebutted if you aren't in the TAM mainstream.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Vulcan2013 said:


> You can advise anything short of violence. But you will be rebutted if you aren't in the TAM mainstream.


That's completely untrue. Please....

I have seen people banned for simply not towing the line.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Welcome to TAM OP! Lol


Many people get upset when they are told the truth rather than what they WANT to hear.

These people don't want to do any heavy lifting. They just want their bad decisions justified.

Surely you recognize that this is why he's pouting...


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Husburned said:


> I need to bow out of this discussion.
> 
> I'm okay with tough love, but the level of seething venom on this thread is way beyond just counter-productive. Feel free to use this decision to further deride my codependency traits and inherent weakness.


Does it matter what we do?

This is a whining post. Lie to us and tell us that everything worked out great if you like. If you want to be happy, divorce, but you seem to genuinely scared to allow yourself to be free. That is a shame.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

roxie1983 said:


> Serves everyone right. And OP is correct.
> 
> This thread is a gang of angry, bitter betrayeds who I imagine were left only because they didn't take responsibility of their own healing and moving on (whether reconciling or divorce).
> 
> ...


LOL. It's like you didn't even bother to read your own thread.

Anyone w/ half a brain and even a shred of self-respect would advise your husband to divorce you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

roxie1983 said:


> Serves everyone right. And OP is correct.
> 
> This thread is a gang of angry, bitter betrayeds who I imagine were left only because they didn't take responsibility of their own healing and moving on (whether reconciling or divorce).
> 
> ...


Well...

There is something ridiculous here. But it's not any of us. 

If I was your husband Roxie, I would have thrown you out on your ear for your cheating and your entitled attitude. 

This is a pro-marriage site, and most of us believe in preserving marriage when both partners are dedicated to the health of the marriage and to each other's well being. 

But more importantly, we are, for the most part, pro self-worth. A person's integrity and self-worth are far more important in the long run than who they are married to. When they are married to someone who devalues them and makes them feel like they are nothing, and that someone then turns around and demands forgiveness when no contriteness or remorse is shown, that's when the majority here will tell the the betrayed person to pull the plug.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I want the best for the husband, wife and daughter.

Sadly, that might even include divorce.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Husburned said:


> I need to bow out of this discussion.
> 
> I'm okay with tough love, but the level of seething venom on this thread is way beyond just counter-productive. Feel free to use this decision to further deride my codependency traits and inherent weakness.


H, I know you are hurting and wanting to do the right thing. You will come across many varying views, ones which are strongly worded, etc but that does not mean you will not find help here, people to listen to you, support you, give advice etc.
By bowing out you are throwing the 'baby out with the bathwater.' don't do that.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

*Serves everyone right. And OP is correct. 

This thread is a gang of angry, bitter betrayeds who I imagine were left only because they didn't take responsibility of their own healing and moving on (whether reconciling or divorce).

They responses I received here were completely vengeful and full of hatred. I mean that most only had to say "Just divorce" in a site called Talk About Marriage.

Ridiculous!*

Roxie, what you forgot to say here is your first statements was that"you just had a little normal work place affair", and just could not understand why your husband could not just forgive you because you were done doing it for I think two years. You DON'T minimize something like that to people who have been recently betrayed and then be puzzled why the responses are harsh. There is NO SUCH thing as a common work place affair to someone whose life has been shattered by infidelity.

It always amazes me why people go on these forums and think they are only going to get the advice they want. There is another forum where a whole bunch of women are constantly on there commiserating with each other on how terrible it is that they still can't keep banging the married boyfriends and they are just looking for encouragement.

Infidelity is probably the most devastating thing that can happen to someone, so to expect nothing but "take a deep breath" is not realistic.

I agree with Tunera especially on I think his comment that a lot of these BH are just looking for someone to tell them that their cheating wife will somehow stop if they do nothing. When they get the harsh advise.

By the way, that is not the case with Husburned. If anyone followed his stories on SI, it was pretty clear that his wife was not real remorseful from the very beginning, and he gave her multi0le chances. 

If you are a betrayed spouse and just want to live with it, you really should be on a polyamory or open marriage forum because there will be conversion on there much kinder on how to accept a non monogamous relationship. The call it "compersion"

Sorry for the rant


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

And we all may have to face the fact that TAM is something of an anomaly that doesn't fit into today's world. Most of us are traditionalists, and in this iWorld we live in, the retro thinking that goes on here is less and less tolerated. 

TAM is like a sandy island in the middle of the Pacific. The ocean is slowly eroding away the banks, we are shrinking, and one day we will disappearunder the water, with nothing but a floating toilet seat and some bubbles marking the spot where we used to be.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> Omg, I actually agree with this. Next jld will tell a man who has a cheating wife that it's not all his fault, and I will be forever lost in a parallel universe.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some people take longer to join the fold. When struck repeatedly on the nose with the newspaper for pooping on the carpet, the good pooch gets the lesson. 

Works for me. My nose should have a broken look to it. I must be a fast healer.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Satya said:


> When I look at a person, I think of it as a pie you can't cut.
> 
> If you love 80% but there's 20% that you don't like, you need to look hard at that 20%. No matter how great the 80% is, if the 20% is really bad, you just can't live with it, and you can't cut that part out, you're stuck with the whole pie.


The pie analogy is a good one. 

The "cut it" notion will not be intelligible to the millennials among us. Different idioms for different generations. But you explained that in the next paragraph.

The thing about a pie mixture [in a sloped rimmed dish] is cross-contamination. That bad 20% will always leach into the good part. The stench will waft and layer onto the good dough crust, the good fruit filling. 

The sense of smell is the biggest part of taste....tasting. 

Only the eye can differentiate boundary lines. 

"Your lying eyes" !!


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

eric1 said:


> I was told that I wasn't 'allowed to suggest divorce' to those in reconciliation.
> 
> I did it again when some woman's husband beat the **** out of her, and the cuckold webmaster dude got on my case. I pointed out in a very equitable way the Freudian reasons why he's upset when others take a firm stand on (some forms) of infidelity. He did not take that well lol.
> 
> ...



You didn't get banned for that?


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Jus260 said:


> You didn't get banned for that?


No, I was getting harassed enough by them at that point that I knew that it was coming. 

I also figured out that they were reading PMs and he didn't react kindly when I mentioned it in a few threads.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

eric1 said:


> No, I was getting harassed enough by them at that point that I knew that it was coming.
> 
> I also figured out that they were reading PMs and he didn't react kindly when I mentioned it in a few threads.



I once posted a link to the Cordell and Cordell website. I forget which thread it was but it may have actually been that guy whose wife posted here but they made the connection that he was posting on SI. Donegone I believe it was. I think that was when they added that message about not posting links. They deleted the link then sent me a PM about not promoting my law firm on their board. The problem is I'm not a lawyer. The accusation was ridiclous. They don't have a problem with people telling men to go to the website. You just can't post the link. 

From reading the posts, it did seem as though they were reading PMs. I don't know how they find the time to moderate everything on that board so heavily. Like you said, they allow mental and physical abuse.

Another thing I noticed is if you post in Just Found Out as a BS then admit to having your own prior A, you are still a BS. If it happened in reverse order, they wouldn't let you anywhere near JFO.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> That's completely untrue. Please....
> 
> I have seen people banned for simply not towing the line.


Yup. I got banned for suggesting that a 30 year old man who knocked up an 18 year old girl and then had her cheat on him might have been thinking with the wrong part of his body and thus had poor judgement in knocking up said 18 year old. 

Here on TAM all betrayed husbands are huge victims with no responsibility for anything, wayward wives are the most evil force on earth and need to be punished if they're not on their knees with porn sex on demand, and wayward husbands, while of poor character, can be a forgiven a bit if they weren't getting adequate sex. 

Even the hb's who admit they were jerks are assured that they're not that bad, and all wives who want to leave for reasons other than cheating or abuse are themselves cheating. If they're not offering enthusiastic sex on demand they're probably cheating too.

This is one of the toxic places I've ever seen. It's not hard for me to see why a few people here have had marital problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yup. I got banned for suggesting that a 30 year old man who knocked up an 18 year old girl and then had her cheat on him might have been thinking with the wrong part of his body and thus had poor judgement in knocking up said 18 year old.
> 
> Here on TAM all betrayed husbands are huge victims with no responsibility for anything, wayward wives are the most evil force on earth and need to be punished if they're not on their knees with porn sex on demand, and wayward husbands, while of poor character, can be a forgiven a bit if they weren't getting adequate sex.
> 
> ...


Tell me one person who thinks that a cheating wife is evil and thinks a cheating husband isn't.

I can tell you at least one or two that think the exact opposite, and somehow that's ok.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

marduk said:


> Tell me one person who thinks that a cheating wife is evil and thinks a cheating husband isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell you at least one or two that think the exact opposite, and somehow that's ok.



That's true but for me it wasn't even the point. Especially when people just find out they're in DISASTROUS SHOCK. You talk to them as individuals based on their specific situations.

If someone comes in yelling I FOUND OUT EIGHT MINUTES AGO AND DEFINITELY DIVORCING THE BEEATCH, well you talk to him differently than 'I found out 8 weeks ago and she got mad at me when I asked to not talk to him anymore'

Enforcing a one-size-fits-all ethos with a problem anything but is very disastrous and borderline unethical. 

I can understand why the guy is on the warpath 24/7. He has unresolved issues that he legitimately needs help for. It's a Shakespearean tragedy that he runs a place which could help him.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Tell me one person who thinks that a cheating wife is evil and thinks a cheating husband isn't.
> 
> I can tell you at least one or two that think the exact opposite, and somehow that's ok.


Nobody will openly admit it, you have to read the responses.

I do not think it's his fault, but I do think there is often a complicated dynamic beyond slvt wife and victim hb, and to pretend that's all there is to it solves very little. 

I don't think the person you refer to thinks it's the guys fault, she has a different view of the power dynamics in the marriage and what drives men and women to do things. We know that emotionally men and women are different and often do the same thing for different reasons. 

I can see how some may Iinterpret this as victim blaming but I don't think that's the intent. Any suggestion of a betrayed having any responsibility is ripped to shreds as victim blaming. 

I know a woman who had an affair a few years ago and her hb found out. Today they're in a much better place because she recognizes that there was no excuse and did what he needed, but he also understood how he helped create the dynamic that contributed to it. They have both owned their part and just celebrated their 19th wedding anniversary. 

I have found that betrayed wives are more open to considering their part in things and much less likely to be challenged on that assumption here on TAM. A betrayed wife isn't going to be told she isn't that bad after admitting to treating her hb like crap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> Nobody will openly admit it, you have to read the responses.


So nobody will openly admit they think something you think they rampantly say on TAM?

So which is it, that they're thinking it but not saying it, or saying it and that's making TAM toxic?



> I do not think it's his fault, but I do think there is often a complicated dynamic beyond slvt wife and victim hb, and to pretend that's all there is to it solves very little.


I think that women still have to deal with the whole Madonna/***** stuff and that mostly sucks and I get it.

What I'm saying is that I don't see it.

I think dudes go through all kinds of pain that is mostly the same as when women get cheated on, but also different.

And while I haven't seen any high fiving here for guys that cheated on their wife, I sure as hell have seen men get told it's their fault their wife cheated, and even to the extent that they should apologize to their wife for being a bad enough husband to cause their wife to cheat on them.



> I don't think the person you refer to thinks it's the guys fault, she has a different view of the power dynamics in the marriage and what drives men and women to do things. We know that emotionally men and women are different and often do the same thing for different reasons.
> 
> I can see how some may Iinterpret this as victim blaming but I don't think that's the intent. Any suggestion of a betrayed having any responsibility is ripped to shreds as victim blaming.


In all honestly, it's not just her. But regarding her specifically, I can say with near 100% certainty that you are wrong.

She helped me save my marriage by helping me see how I was weak.

And when I became strong, and my wife's behaviour was to try to continue her EA... She blamed me again. When this time it honestly had zero to do with me.

And I've seen it happen to other guys. So there's no defending that.



> I know a woman who had an affair a few years ago and her hb found out. Today they're in a much better place because she recognizes that there was no excuse and did what he needed, but he also understood how he helped create the dynamic that contributed to it. They have both owned their part and just celebrated their 19th wedding anniversary.


And this is all well and good.

Did that woman firstly take accountability for having the affair, express remorse, apologize, and immediately drop the other man?

Because that's the point of contention that we are really talking about, isn't it?

That is really the only difference between our viewpoints.



> I have found that betrayed wives are more open to considering their part in things and much less likely to be challenged on that assumption here on TAM. A betrayed wife isn't going to be told she isn't that bad after admitting to treating her hb like crap.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I have seen some of that, in about the same amounts I've seen from the men. Once, as was said, the husband or the wife has moved beyond the immediate shock of the affair, had a spouse that took accountability for the affair, expressed remorse, apologized, and dropped the affair partner.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Jus260 said:


> I once posted a link to the Cordell and Cordell website. I forget which thread it was but it may have actually been that guy whose wife posted here but they made the connection that he was posting on SI. Donegone I believe it was. I think that was when they added that message about not posting links. They deleted the link then sent me a PM about not promoting my law firm on their board. The problem is I'm not a lawyer. The accusation was ridiclous. They don't have a problem with people telling men to go to the website. You just can't post the link.
> 
> From reading the posts, it did seem as though they were reading PMs. I don't know how they find the time to moderate everything on that board so heavily. Like you said, they allow mental and physical abuse.
> 
> Another thing I noticed is if you post in Just Found Out as a BS then admit to having your own prior A, you are still a BS. If it happened in reverse order, they wouldn't let you anywhere near JFO.


That site is an odd place...the stop signs so WS's can whine and whine and whine about how tough their lives are - because of their own actions mind you can be infuriating...ther is just a different vibe there - a softer tone - some people like that some dont...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> .
> And this is all well and good.
> 
> Did that woman firstly take accountability for having the affair, express remorse, apologize, and immediately drop the other man?
> ...


The BS does not create a "dynamic" for someone to cheat - they contribute to a bad marriage but cheating to cope with marital difficulties and then getting the BS to admit they "created the atmosphere for you to cheat" is a form of gas lighting in my opinion - the same BS who is also in a miserable marriage doesn't cheat - why is that? Character..


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Your wifes a grade a bi......tch.


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