# I let my curiosity get the better of me, but it's okay...



## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Yesterday, I did something I'd never done before. Something I promised myself I would do. My wife went to work and forgot her cell phone at home. I let my curiosity got the better of me, and peeked...

Oddly, I didn't feel guilty about it the way I thought I would. I pretty much found what I expected to find. And just as oddly, I didn't feel upset or angry or sad or anything about it. It was simply confirmation of what I'd suspected, and that I haven't been crazy all these years.

That confirmation, I think, has killed any remaining attachment I had left. I think I can move on without regrets, now.



Pb.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

I am sorry that you found what you did but this just might be what you needed to move on and make a clean break.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Bravo PB!

You shouldn't feel guilty. She broke your trust and betrayed you. You were just responding. When there is a clear threat to your family it is not wrong to dig until you know the extend of it, or at the very least confirm.

Now it will be harder for you to emotionally second guess what you rationally know to be true. Which is good for your healing.


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## Hermes (Oct 8, 2012)

Now that you know, move on. 

I did the same thing as you. I checked her facebook, phone, email, etc. 

I am a firm believer that fruit from a poisonous tree is not healthy for the BS. In this case, it is fine for you, since it gave you the confirmation that you needed. No more though. Don't give in anymore. Don't look at anything else. You got what you needed. You dont need any more. It will only hurt your recovery.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

I hate that crazy feeling your spouse makes you feel like for following your instinct and questioning what she/he is up to. You know deep down something is wrong, but they lie so much and twist things you start to question your own sanity. Atleast now you know and can see through all that BS.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

I did too. I got what I needed. I even saved it. But then I quit looking. My intent was not to stalk but to confirm. And now when I do get thoughts of R too early I go back and look at what I saved to remind me why I should stay strong and not give in to my longing for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

If you are like me, you are in the state of shock. The shock won't last and your emotions will creep up here and there. Learn how to manage them when they do and move forward. She does not deserve an ounce of your time and attention.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shagnasty (Dec 19, 2012)

you can't wear them out! do something exciting so she'll give you more, there's nothing wrong with a person getting some strange stuff, made my marriage better


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> I hate that crazy feeling your spouse makes you feel like for following your instinct and questioning what she/he is up to. You know deep down something is wrong, but they lie so much and twist things you start to question your own sanity. Atleast now you know and can see through all that BS.


It's called gas-lighting. It's insidious. I'm glad you found the truth you needed and will be able to move on. It will be tough at times, but you deserve respect and not lies.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

moxy said:


> It's called gas-lighting. It's insidious. I'm glad you found the truth you needed and will be able to move on. It will be tough at times, but you deserve respect and not lies.


I took it a step further and told her it was diabolical and I wouldn't put up with it.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> You shouldn't feel guilty.


Maybe not guilt, but perhaps a little disappointment in myself that I broke that promise to myself.



Hermes said:


> Now that you know, move on.
> 
> In this case, it is fine for you, since it gave you the confirmation that you needed. No more though. Don't give in anymore. Don't look at anything else. You got what you needed. You dont need any more. It will only hurt your recovery.





zillard said:


> I did too. I got what I needed. I even saved it. But then I quit looking. My intent was not to stalk but to confirm.


Yeah, I know. It'll be something especially tough for me... I have an insatiable curiosity and am a "fixer" at heart. When I see something that's Not Right, I have an almost instinctual compulsion to find out what's wrong, why it's wrong, and then find a way to solve the problem.

Now I know what happened. Coming to terms with the fact that I'll probably never understand why she made the choices she did, and that I can't fix this problem is the hardest part for me right now.



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Classic fixer here too. And I can see that it damaged my marriage from the start. On some level I saw my stbxw as a project and she saw me as a white knight. Over the years when i learned that I could not fix her, I resented her for it and her image of me as her hero vanished. Now I've got to let her go. If she gets help and grows - great, but too late for me to benefit. And now I know what to look for in a woman - high self esteem!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

I would recommend "Rebuilding, When Your Relationship Ends" 3rd edition. By Dr. Bruce Fisher and Dr. Robert Alberti.

The chapter on Adaptive Relationships/Behaviors could be insightful for you (as well as the rest of the book).


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

All right. Let me share what I did find. I need to get it out just for a sanity check.

:rant:

First was that she's been telling all her friends exaggerations, half-truths and outright lies about me... Complaining about me and making fun of me to them. They, of course, have been egging her on, sympathizing with her and telling her what a jerk I am. No surprise there.

It also didn't surprise me that she's having an emotional affair. (And possibly a physical affair as well? I've no proof, but she's certainly had inclination and opportunity, which enough for grounds for divorce in my state, and both of which I can easily prove, should I ever need to.) What did surprise by surprise is that just based on her texts, it looks like she has at least *THREE!*  emotional affairs all going at the same time.

#1 is her old manager. He is a family man who was caught having an affair with one of the cashiers he worked with. he was given the choice of losing his job or transferring out of state. He transferred. One of her texts to him: "A picture wouldn't be a good idea right now."

#2 is a guy she currently works with. He is a divorcee who has been confiding in her about his trouble with his ex-wife. At her company's Christmas party last year, he made a point of telling me, "She's a really special woman," while he was staring at her from across the room. Two of her texts to him: "It's so tough for me to stay focused when we're scheduled on the same shift," and "I want to rock you."

#3 is a fellow that I met when I was coaching my son's Robotics Club team about a year ago. He was the father of one of the other teammates. He's likewise divorced, a single father, reasonably handsome, athletically muscled, is excessively charming, plays the electric guitar, rides motorcycles and has confidence oozing out the wazoo. At first, we started to become friends, until I realized... He also smokes pot, drinks excessively (then drives -- something his own son complains about in public), acts like an ******* toward everyone, shows up late for everything, can't be relied upon to keep a promise, and has freely admitted that he uses the women he dates and then acts like jerk to push them away when he's done with them. Her texts to him and about him quite literally gush like a teenage girl with crush on the school's quarterback. She's invited him to take her to the company Christmas party this year.

Good Luck to them both.



Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> I would recommend "Rebuilding, When Your Relationship Ends" 3rd edition. By Dr. Bruce Fisher and Dr. Robert Alberti.
> 
> The chapter on Adaptive Relationships/Behaviors could be insightful for you (as well as the rest of the book).


I'll check my local library for it. Thanks for the recommendation.

I think, though, that I just need to get her out of the house. She's still living in the basement bedroom... Everything would be so much easier to deal with if we weren't bumping into each other on a daily basis.

She keeps telling me I need to let go and move on, but she won't give me the space to do it.



Pb.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> All right. Let me share what I did find. I need to get it out just for a sanity check.
> 
> :rant:
> 
> ...


WTF is wrong with people these days?


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> It looks like she has at least *THREE!*  emotional affairs all going at the same time.
> 
> #1 is her old manager.
> #2 is a guy she currently works with.
> #3 is a fellow that I met when I was coaching my son's Robotics Club team about a year ago.


I've heard of playing the field before, but just WOW! Sounds like she has all the bases loaded.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> I've heard of playing the field before, but just WOW! Sounds like she has all the bases loaded.


The bases... the dugout... the bullpen...

Looking back, I'm beginning to realize that she's been doing this all along... long before we ever met, even. It had just occurred to me that at one point back in college _*I*_ was one of her emotional affairs while she dated other guys.

20/20 hindsight, and all that.



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

PB - after D-day when I went into detective mode I got into her facebook and found she'd been messaging last summer with a former boyfriend from before we got married. Talking about the dreams they'd been having about each other that were "too good", "warm and secure", "the good ones", etc.

Then during her current A with OM from work, these two got back in touch again. 
"I love you for caring"
"Thanks hon, you're a sweetheart as always"
"text me instead of facebook"
heart emoticons and all.

At the same time messaging with OM from work:
"sweet dreams cupcake"
"my beer is like sex in my mouth"
"love you big hubby"
"go flick your bean, it helps"
"I don't want to lose you because of someone else's insecurities" 
"None of this is your fault. I think he just wants someone / something to blame to make it easier."
"You are important to me and I need you to know that this isn't because of you."

But it's all my fault for being emotionally unavailable. :lol:


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> "my beer is like sex in my mouth"


Best. Sext. Evar.



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> Best. Sext. Evar.
> 
> Pb.


Nope. Was all just innocent joking. She told me so. :bsflag:

(none of the above includes the 400 txts/month that she deleted from her phone)


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> #3 is a fellow that I met when I was coaching my son's Robotics Club team about a year ago. He was the father of one of the other teammates. He's likewise divorced, a single father, reasonably handsome, athletically muscled, is excessively charming, plays the electric guitar, rides motorcycles and has confidence oozing out the wazoo. At first, we started to become friends, until I realized... He also smokes pot, drinks excessively (then drives -- something his own son complains about in public), acts like an ******* toward everyone, shows up late for everything, can't be relied upon to keep a promise, and has freely admitted that he uses the women he dates and then acts like jerk to push them away when he's done with them. Her texts to him and about him quite literally gush like a teenage girl with crush on the school's quarterback. She's invited him to take her to the company Christmas party this year.
> 
> Good Luck to them both.


So, here's the punchline...

As much of a jerk as he can be, #3 and I did start out as friends. Even without the confirming texts, It had seemed pretty obvious something was going on by the way she was acting. So, I chatted with him today. I just wanted to let him know that I knew there was something between the two of them (I didn't specify what), that there's no hard feelings, and best of luck and happiness to them both. Moving on.

His response:

_"Thing? No. I have never done anything nor implied anything with her. As far as her having a crush, sorry I can't help that. WTF? She asked me to go to a party, and I was making jokes about taking my shirt off there... What the hell is going on?"_

:rofl:

Apparently, STBXW has a very different view of her (potential) relationship with him than he does.

:lol:

I chatted with him a little more about it, and if anything he seemed sympathetic when I told him about her dragging her feet over the divorce papers... _"Do you have a neutral 3rd party? Apparently, it can't be me, although I am willing... It would be to your advantage, too."_



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> His response:
> 
> _"Thing? No. I have never done anything nor implied anything with her. As far as her having a crush, sorry I can't help that. WTF? She asked me to go to a party, and I was making jokes about taking my shirt off there... What the hell is going on?"_
> 
> ...


PB - I got a similar response from posOM. But "I have never ...implied anything with her" and "as far as her having a crush, sorry I can't help that" is BS. We humans can generally tell when someone has a crush on us. Maintaining contact with a married woman we know to have a crush on us IS implying something, and posOM CAN do something about that by cutting off contact. 

I wrote posOM, "At some point she became infatuated with you and was in denial of this. Because of her denial, she was not able to be honest with me and began a campaign of lies and broken promises that I never saw from her in 10 years. It's unfortunate that she put you in this position, but it is also unfortunate that you facilitated her infatuation by texting a married woman 400 times a month and repeatedly letting her into your home when you knew she was having problems at her own."

And I let her read it. He would not. 

I wasn't hateful, just to the point. I could have easily gotten nasty about it, but that would not help me at all. This way he saw I was not the controlling, jealous, crazy husband she made me out to be, saw that she'd been lying to him as well as me, and he pulled back from her. 

It didn't help save my marriage, but it did save my integrity.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> I wasn't hateful, just to the point. I could have easily gotten nasty about it, but that would not help me at all. This way he saw I was not the controlling, jealous, crazy husband she made me out to be, saw that she'd been lying to him as well as me, and he pulled back from her.


Oh, yeah... That was the "I chatted with him a little more about it" part.

I explained that I understood that he has no control over who my wife develops a crush on, but also that he's been leading her on -- even if unintentionally -- and that he could have squelched it.



Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> It didn't help save my marriage, but it did save my integrity.


It's not helping to save mine, either, but...

Check this out: Minutes after I finished talking to him, he sent her a text. She sent one back. I don't know what they said to each other, but not long after she came to me with a handful of half finished do-it-yourself cut and paste divorce papers. She asked to trade her draft for the one I worked up with my attorney, so we could both read them over and come back and talk about them. That's more forward motion than I've gotten out of her in months.



Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

He was probably calling you a p*#sy for not throwing down, saying he'd fight for her. She agreed, oohing and ahing. 

Eventually she'll respect you. And if she doesn't... you still will.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

zillard said:


> He was probably calling you a p*#sy for not throwing down, saying he'd fight for her. She agreed, oohing and ahing.
> 
> Eventually she'll respect you. And if she doesn't... you still will.


My stbxw kept bringing up a time years ago when she had to talk me down cuz I wanted to kill a guy who raped my sister. I think she was expecting me to react similarly in this situation. 

But reality is, that was something that a pos did TO my sister - this situation is something that SHE did WITH a pos.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> He was probably calling you a p*#sy for not throwing down, saying he'd fight for her. She agreed, oohing and ahing.


He can call me whatever he likes, it really makes no difference to me.

I've been in enough real fights, that I've come to ascribe to Teddy Roosevelt's philososphy... It is best to avoid a fight, if it is at all possible to honorably to do so. But if there is no other alternative, hit first, hit hard and don't stop hitting until the fight is over.

I think, though, knowing what I do about him, it is equally likely that I spooked him a little with the thought of how seriously she's been aiming after him.

Another interesting observation... This afternoon, after they texted each other and we swapped papers, she's been uncommonly friendly and conversational. She even mentioned that she was going to the party with him "just as friends" (heh), and that they find to do together (with his son) for New Year's Eve. I brushed it off as no big deal, and told her to enjoy herself.

Anyway, I've got to go finish packing... The kids and I are heading out on a road trip tomorrow to visit my big brother in San Antonio. We plan on visiting the Alamo, and asking one of the tour guides where the basement is.



Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

*UPDATE:*

The trip to visit my brother was great. A whole week on our own, without the stress of having her there. The kids were excellent road-trippers, cheerfully rolling along, even after 20 hours in the car each way.

We got to visit with my brother and his family, ate some delicious fajitas, lit off some fireworks on New Year's Eve, and went to see the Alamo.

It was the most fun I've had in a long time.



Hermes said:


> No more though. Don't give in anymore. Don't look at anything else. You got what you needed. You dont need any more. It will only hurt your recovery.


You guys are going to be disappointed in me... I peaked again. Sorry. The opportunity to do so caught me during a moment of weakness.

Interesting, though...



zillard said:


> He was probably calling you a p*#sy for not throwing down, saying he'd fight for her. She agreed, oohing and ahing.


The text in question was in reply to an earlier text of hers... I had been trying to find his phone number, and DD caught wind of it. DD asked DW for his number to help me out. DW sent #3 a text about DD asking for his number, and then a second text explaining that I was the one who wanted his number.

To paraphrase his reply, "Not a big deal. I've got other stuff to deal with." (This is he text he sent just after I finished talking to him.)

Her response, "I hope he isn't causing trouble for you."

Turns out he changed his plans to hang out with her on NYE, and took his son on a trip up to their cabin in Michigan instead. She got to stay home alone with her bottle of champagne,



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> Her response, "I hope he isn't causing trouble for you."
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's not as fun anymore when you know the husband has you figured out and it's obvious you're not as bad as she painted you.

:smthumbup:


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

#3 texted me last night... Told me he's having some friends over at his place Friday night to party, and asked me if I wanted to join in.

Then, proceeded to ensure me that he's only to DW's Christmas Party because she asked him to, and then he started joking (or maybe not?) about how he's going hit on all her hot friends and co-workers ("I'm going to lay down the tightest game") while he's there.

I'm getting the vibe that he's truly not interested in her in any way other than just friends, but she got the wrong idea about him. He firmly in alpha territory. She is, quite honestly, not in his league and I'm pretty sure he knows it. 

So... Do I stop by his house Friday night and see what's up?



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> #3 texted me last night... Told me he's having some friends over at his place Friday night to party, and asked me if I wanted to join in.
> 
> Then, proceeded to ensure me that he's only to DW's Christmas Party because she asked him to, and then he started joking (or maybe not?) about how he's going hit on all her hot friends and co-workers ("I'm going to lay down the tightest game") while he's there.
> 
> ...


Do you like the guy? Would you enjoy yourself?


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## stopandmakecoffee (Jan 2, 2013)

as a wise man once said : 'don't ask the question if you don't want to know the answer'.

i think that people should have their secrets remain untold.
well, that's just me


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> Do you like the guy? Would you enjoy yourself?


He's one of those guys who's hard not to like.

He can be a complete ass when he's not paying attention to what he's doing... Though he also sincerely takes it to heart if you call him on it. He's not the usual sort I hang out with, but I did get along pretty well with him before DW started stalking him. So yeah, I do like the guy.

And I probably would have fun... It's been a long time since I've gone out and had that sort of fun.



Pb.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## veebras (Dec 10, 2011)

Is she remorseful at all? Did she stop, apologize, offer counseling..?! Have you even told her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

veebras said:


> Is she remorseful at all? Did she stop, apologize, offer counseling..?! Have you even told her?


Told her what?



Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Pointless question PB, but I have to ask - how old are you? 

You sound incredibly laid back and easygoing (My vain mind likes to translate this to mean "you sound like me", but I digress). I bet it'll be easy for you to get back on your feet when all this blows away.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

caladan said:


> Pointless question PB, but I have to ask - how old are you?
> 
> You sound incredibly laid back and easygoing (My vain mind likes to translate this to mean "you sound like me", but I digress). I bet it'll be easy for you to get back on your feet when all this blows away.


I'm 36 years old.

And I take "laid back and easygoing" as a very sincere compliment. It's a personal qualisty I truly prize in myself,

It's a long story, but in a nutshell... I wasn't so much when I was very young. As I grew up I worked to become so. Through years of what I now recognize as subtle and manipulative emotional abuse during my marriage, I lost it. That loss was the cause of some of the greatest mistakes in my life, my heaviest regrets.

In the last six months or so, I've found it again. The realization of the example I was setting for my kids kicked me into the head. Friends, family and a good counselor helped a lot. I'm not an especially religious fellow, but rereading some of my favorite philosphies - The Tao Te Ching, The New Testament, the assorted stoics - also helped put my head back together and reclaim my zen dudism.

Oh, and Teddy Roosevelt... he's my absolute favorite President, and I really dig his style.



Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> I'm 36 years old.
> 
> And I take "laid back and easygoing" as a very sincere compliment. It's a personal qualisty I truly prize in myself,
> 
> ...


Awesome, I placed you in the mid-late 30s bracket in my mind as well. Dude, good luck with your travails, I think you've done excellently with the hand you've been dealt.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> I'm 36 years old.
> 
> And I take "laid back and easygoing" as a very sincere compliment. It's a personal qualisty I truly prize in myself,
> 
> ...


The dude abides.


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

zillard said:


> The dude abideth.


Nuff said.


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## veebras (Dec 10, 2011)

Pbartender said:


> Told her what?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That you know of everything. I guess so but can't remember, lazy. Is she continuing the affair(s)?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

veebras said:


> That you know of everything.


Oh, good heavens, no. It wouldn't do any good at all for all sorts of reasons.



veebras said:


> Is she continuing the affair(s)?


Maybe, sort of? Hard to tell. At this point, it hardly makes a difference. She's already pushed things far past the point that I'd ever want her back.

See my other post entitled Amicable 50/50? Sorry, no... Now, she wants it all! for details.



Pb.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

For #3 - you do realize that it's complete bs that he had no interest in her. He wouldn't think twice about getting into her pants then dumping her. So he was deliberately leading her on, despite what he says.

If you're past that, and don't mind if he uses your stbxw, then by all means go to his party and make him feel like he's your buddy and he has your approval to get his stick wet with your stbxw. 

Maybe he can film it. 


ETA: Sorry - I am joking about the filming (should have put a smiley). Point is - the OM may be a great guy, but he is has not been your friend while leading your stbxw on.


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> For #3 - you do realize that it's complete bs that he had no interest in her. He wouldn't think twice about getting into her pants then dumping her. So he was deliberately leading her on, despite what he says.
> 
> If you're past that, and don't mind if he uses your stbxw, then by all means go to his party and make him feel like he's your buddy and he has your approval to get his stick wet with your stbxw.
> 
> Maybe he can film it.



With all due respect Cedarman, how on earth does this count as advice? Film it??

C'mon.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

caladan said:


> With all due respect Cedarman, how on earth does this count as advice? Film it??
> 
> C'mon.


Sorry - I was NOT being serious. Inappropriate and I apologize.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Pbartender said:


> my zen dudism.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am so stealing this.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> For #3 - you do realize that it's complete bs that he had no interest in her. He wouldn't think twice about getting into her pants then dumping her. So he was deliberately leading her on, despite what he says.


How can you be so certain?

My wife is by no means ugly, and she was pretty smoking hot when she was younger... But let's be honest, here, that was , 16 years, two kids and 75 pounds ago. She's an overweight, almost middle-aged woman with two kids.

He's ridiculously good-looking, excruciatingly charming, and athletically muscular. He's the sort of guy who could get practically any woman he wants with a smile and a "Hello". He could have far better looking women, without all the assorted middle-of-a-divorce-baggage, for far, far less effort and hassle.



Cedarman said:


> If you're past that, and don't mind if he uses your stbxw, then by all means go to his party and make him feel like he's your buddy and he has your approval to get his stick wet with your stbxw.


Okay, look... I posted this in another thread, and I'll post it here as well:

_"See things for what they are... ...Things and people are not what we wish them to be nor what they seem to be. They are what they are."_ - *Epictetus*

You are making assumptions and assertions about a guy you've never met, and know only a very little about through my own admittedly biased description.

Please don't be one of those "toxic friends" that everyone here complains about.



Pb.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> How can you be so certain?
> 
> My wife is by no means ugly, and she was pretty smoking hot when she was younger... But let's be honest, here, that was , 16 years, two kids and 75 pounds ago. She's an overweight, almost middle-aged woman with two kids.
> 
> ...



So tell me. If your wife is such a poor catch - why were you curious? Why would you care? Why did you peek?

I have no skin in the game here and I'm not your friend, toxic or otherwise. I am merely responding to what you've told us. Seeing things "as they are" based upon your description. 

My assumptions are based upon your prior posts. You were biased for a reason.

But if you want to look on the bright side, you're losing a fatty wife who can't attract a good looking guy, and you're getting a new best pal - maybe you can feed off of his magnetism. Is that how it is?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> So tell me. If your wife is such a poor catch - why were you curious? Why would you care? Why did you peek?


It doesn't have anything to do with her being a poor catch. 

Allow me to quote myself, from a previous post...



Pbartender said:


> I have an insatiable curiosity and am a "fixer" at heart. When I see something that's Not Right, I have an almost instinctual compulsion to find out what's wrong, why it's wrong, and then find a way to solve the problem.
> 
> Now I know what happened. Coming to terms with the fact that I'll probably never understand why she made the choices she did, and that I can't fix this problem is the hardest part for me right now..





Cedarman said:


> I have no skin in the game here and I'm not your friend, toxic or otherwise. I am merely responding to what you've told us. Seeing things "as they are" based upon your description.
> 
> My assumptions are based upon your prior posts. You were biased for a reason.


Yeah, probably, but... 

I don't understand where you got the idea that _"it's complete bs that he had no interest in her. He wouldn't think twice about getting into her pants then dumping her. So he was deliberately leading her on, despite what he says."_ from any of my posts. 

My wife is the one with the crush on him, that was obvious.

Sure he can sometimes be a jerk in a frat-boy sort of way, but I've never seen any evidence that interested in my wife in any way other than friends, and maybe I'm mistaken but I didn't think I implied that in any of my posts.



Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> He's ridiculously good-looking, excruciatingly charming, and athletically muscular. He's the sort of guy who could get practically any woman he wants with a smile and a "Hello".


You are assuming he feels the same way about himself. The ladies man is usually much more insecure than their front.



Pbartender said:


> He could have far better looking women, without all the assorted middle-of-a-divorce-baggage, for far, far less effort and hassle.


No offense, but he wouldn't be screwing her baggage. And to those with a poor self image, stealing another man's wife makes them feel like more of a man. 

But he and your stbxw are gonna do what they're gonna do. So this is irrelevant, really.

Going to his party would surely put a prickly burr in your stbxw's pants. And if my assumptions above are correct, being chummy with the guy (after confronting him) will only make him want her less. Not exciting anymore.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> It doesn't have anything to do with her being a poor catch.
> 
> Allow me to quote myself, from a previous post...
> 
> ...




PB - your skepticism that he was flirting with your wife is based upon your knowledge of him and YOUR knowledge of your wife's current appearance. But the communications were by text. For all you know, his image of her was when she was 75 pounds lighter and hot. That is all I am saying. For a player, one more text flirt is done without thinking. Certainly without thinking of you.

You did the right thing by talking with him - but don't let your mancrush put you under the same fog as your wife. He may be a great guy but he was treading on dangerous ground. 

That is all I meant.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If it was me , I would go to #3 party, hell he sound like he has a lot of interesting friend in with that there will be some hot chick to flirt with.....you know start practicing for when your ready to get back into the game.....

Plus it will piss your old lady off if you are better friend with #3 then she is.......


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> You are assuming he feels the same way about himself. The ladies man is usually much more insecure than their front.


Oh, know... I know he feels that way bout himself. He's told me himself. 



zillard said:


> But he and your stbxw are gonna do what they're gonna do. So this is irrelevant, really.


Right.



zillard said:


> Going to his party would surely put a prickly burr in your stbxw's pants. And if my assumptions above are correct, being chummy with the guy (after confronting him) will only make him want her less. Not exciting anymore.


Yep. And if the whole thing is one-sided, as I might suspect, it will certainly make her think again about how interested he actually is in her.



Cedarman said:


> PB - your skepticism that he was flirting with your wife is based upon your knowledge of him and YOUR knowledge of your wife's current appearance. But the communications were by text. For all you know, his image of her was when she was 75 pounds lighter and hot.


For what it's worth, he never knew her when she was 75 pounds lighter and hot...



Pbartender said:


> #3 is a fellow that I met when I was coaching my son's Robotics Club team about a year ago.





Cedarman said:


> You did the right thing by talking with him - but don't let your mancrush put you under the same fog as your wife. He may be a great guy but he was treading on dangerous ground.
> 
> That is all I meant.


I hear you. But I also don't want to make assumptions about his actions and intentions without a little bit better proof than what I've got... For someone with such an over-active imagination as me, that leads down the road to insanity.



the guy said:


> If it was me , I would go to #3 party, hell he sound like he has a lot of interesting friend in with that there will be some hot chick to flirt with.....you know start practicing for when your ready to get back into the game.....
> 
> Plus it will piss your old lady off if you are better friend with #3 then she is.......


Regardless of the actual circumstances... That's sort of what I was thinking, too.


Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Back to this for a minute...



the guy said:


> If it was me , I would go to #3 party, hell he sound like he has a lot of interesting friend in with that there will be some hot chick to flirt with.....you know start practicing for when your ready to get back into the game.....
> 
> Plus it will piss your old lady off if you are better friend with #3 then she is.......


The party was helluva fun. Turns out it was his birthday bash. Good booze, good food, good music and good people. Stayed out far later than I probably should have, but it was a good time and he was cool about it.



Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Did you meet any interesting women?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

the guy said:


> Did you meet any interesting women?


Oh, sure! I met three of them! And their boyfriends...  His Mom was there, too. She was pretty cool.

Joking aside, I had a great time partying with them (and their boyfriends).



Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Betrayedwife (Nov 9, 2012)

Hermes said:


> Now that you know, move on.
> 
> I did the same thing as you. I checked her facebook, phone, email, etc.
> 
> I am a firm believer that fruit from a poisonous tree is not healthy for the BS. In this case, it is fine for you, since it gave you the confirmation that you needed. No more though. Don't give in anymore. Don't look at anything else. You got what you needed. You dont need any more. It will only hurt your recovery.


I stayed with my husband after the first betrayal. I could never let it go and kept searching. Of course, I found more things but still stayed. Even after I left 2 months ago, I kept searching. All it has done is torn me apart. If you know the truth, don't look anymore, just know what you know nd make the decisions that you have to make. You are going to make the decisions anyway, so don't torture yourself like I did.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> I don't understand where you got the idea that _"it's complete bs that he had no interest in her. He wouldn't think twice about getting into her pants then dumping her. So he was deliberately leading her on, despite what he says."_


No idea? Seriously? What's the word I'm reaching for here.....incredulous. That's it. Incredulous.

An "alpha" single man who can get any woman he wants just decides to sms some woman uncountable times and engage in flirting banter with her, but there is nothing going on.

Your life Brosephina, you can believe whatever you want, but don't be offended if some of us here in the stadium watching proceedings have a good laugh over a beer at your inability to see "things for what they are" Epicetus


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> No idea? Seriously? What's the word I'm reaching for here.....incredulous. That's it. Incredulous.
> 
> An "alpha" single man who can get any woman he wants just decides to sms some woman uncountable times and engage in flirting banter with her, but there is nothing going on.
> 
> Your life Brosephina, you can believe whatever you want, but don't be offended if some of us here in the stadium watching proceedings have a good laugh over a beer at your inability to see "things for what they are" Epicetus


See, in my opinion your response doesn't negate his post. The only difference is the perspective through which you both look at it, and the impact it has on you.
PB has obviously chosen to walk the road less taken, with the mindset that whoever is shagging or not shagging his ex no longer concerns him. You however seem to be hanging on to what seems (to me) to be a rather fragile ego situation where you can't help but visualize the other guy in the process of coitus (thanks Big Bang Theory) with said ex. 
It's neither bad nor good, it's just different. But while you swig your alcoholic beverages and engage in mirthful discussion, be aware that there are also some of us who, like PB, think your beer is warm, flat, and tasteless (bud lite), your stadium is wack, and the "things for what they are" that you see exist only in your own collective minds.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

caladan said:


> See, in my opinion your response doesn't negate his post. The only difference is the perspective through which you both look at it, and the impact it has on you.
> PB has obviously chosen to walk the road less taken, with the mindset that whoever is shagging or not shagging his ex no longer concerns him. You however seem to be hanging on to what seems (to me) to be a rather fragile ego situation where you can't help but visualize the other guy in the process of coitus (thanks Big Bang Theory) with said ex.
> It's neither bad nor good, it's just different. But while you swig your alcoholic beverages and engage in mirthful discussion, be aware that there are also some of us who, like PB, think your beer is warm, flat, and tasteless (bud lite), your stadium is wack, and the "things for what they are" that you see exist only in your own collective minds.


For that matter, on a more immediately practical level, considering what I *actually know* about the situation, there's every chance that the guy *isn't* shagging my wife.

What I know is that #3 didn't text my wife uncountable times and engage in flirting banter with her.

What I know is she texts #3 uncountable times and engages in flirting banter with him.

What I know is, while he's never flat-out shut her flirting down, his responses to her have been to either ignore the flirting, change the subject or deflect the flirting toward another more harmless target.

What I know is that she talks about him endlessly to her toxic friend when she thinks I'm not listening.

What I know that she secretly stares at his Facebook profile when she thinks I'm not looking, and she has a file fill of pictures of him that she downloaded off the internet.

What I know is that every time I've talked with him about the problems I've been having with her and our marriage, his advice has been aimed toward helping us stay together and work things out.

What I know is that he invited me, and not her, to his birthday party. And that I spent the whole night having a great time chatting up two hot girls and #3's mother, while he and the girls' "alpha" boyfriends hid out in the back room playing darts and getting drunk off Coors Light.

So, the point is not to see things the way I would like them to be (I would like her to take responsibility for her mistakes and work with me to rebuild our marriage into what it could be -- that's not happening and it'll drive me insane to continue hoping for it), and not to see things they way they seem to be (it seems like this jag off pretended to be my friend just so he could steal my wife and ruin my marriage -- which is a satisfying justification to be a jag off in return, but is also paranoid in a very unhealthy way), but to see what actually is and no more...

Which is that my wife has a penchant for falling in love with her coworkers and my friends, regardless of whether they eventually decide to return that affection. The problem is not #3, here. The problem is my wife.

So, Caladan is right. The question of whether they're actually getting it on or not doesn't make a difference. I'm going through with the divorce anyway. But, for the sake of my own mental health, I wanted to find out as much as I could so I could best understand what was actually happening.



Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Interesting news from the grapevine, via a reliable source...

She hadn't realized that I was going to #3's birthday party last Friday night. She hadn't even realized it was his birthday. She also didn't realize that _he_ had invited _me_. 

She was under the impression that it was my idea to go over to his place, and that I was doing so with the intent of trying intimidate him into staying away from her or something. I'm not sure if she still thinks that, or if #3 has disabused her of that notion.

Also, when asked about the holiday party... "It was okay. Unfortunately, I'm not interested in any of the guys who are interested, and the one guy I'm interested in _[#3]_ isn't interested."

I'd been trying to figure why she's been so... subdued... the last couple of days. Between this and the realization that she's not going to get the house and full custody and everything else, I may have found the reason.


Pb.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> Interesting news from the grapevine, via a reliable source...
> 
> She hadn't realized that I was going to #3's birthday party last Friday night. She hadn't even realized it was his birthday. She also didn't realize that _he_ had invited _me_.
> 
> ...


Looks like her fantasy is dissolving. Mine was very subdued, even depressed, drinking herself to sleep nightly. But only after her posOM started pulling back. She said she couldn't bear "losing" her "friend". I see it more as she couldn't bear reality after losing her fantasy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

*UPDATE:*

The other day, she told me she was going to go see a movie with some friends from work. When she came home from the movie, she pulled me aside and changed her story suddenly. Instead, it turns out she went on a dinner-and-a-movie date with a guy she works with. Apparently, he wants to take her home to meet his parents. 


Pb.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> The other day, she told me she was going to go see a movie with some friends from work. When she came home from the movie, she pulled me aside and changed her story suddenly. Instead, it turns out she went on a dinner-and-a-movie date with a guy she works with. Apparently, he wants to take her home to meet his parents.
> 
> ...


What is the point in her telling you this?


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> The other day, she told me she was going to go see a movie with some friends from work. When she came home from the movie, she pulled me aside and changed her story suddenly. Instead, it turns out she went on a dinner-and-a-movie date with a guy she works with. Apparently, he wants to take her home to meet his parents.
> 
> ...


Ha. 

1. why lie at this point? not comfortable with what she doing?
2. why tell you about it? trying to get a reaction?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> 1. why lie at this point? not comfortable with what she doing?
> 2. why tell you about it? trying to get a reaction?


I was kind of wondering the same thing...

I went all Steven Hyde on her.  "Whatever... That's cool."


Pb.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

I think she is playing head games with you.
It is up to you weather it works of not....


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

So, last weekend, #3 hosted another party. This time, he invited both me and STBXW. She decided not to go, partially because she found out I would be there and partially because she was miffed at #3 for turning her down.

Anyway, at the party I was talking with #3's mom, and she talked all about how he had talked to her about how uncomfortable and weirded out he was by STBXW chasing after him... And about how he never would have done something like that to a friend.

I think #3's officially off the hook.

Also, at the party I met a hot blonde who's a friend of #3, and we hit it off. Spent the night chatting, and dancing, and making at least one other guy obviously jealous. Got her number. Chatted a few times since.

Last night she texted me out of the blue and asked me to meet at the local sports bar for a few drinks. None of the other friends she invited showed up (some of her girlfriends she wanted to introduce me to), and so it was just her and me and the Blackhawks game. Good time.

Then, she invited me to her Super Bowl party on Sunday.

:smthumbup:

I wonder if I should tell STBXW about her.


Pb.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

No!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> So, last weekend, #3 hosted another party. This time, he invited both me and STBXW. She decided not to go, partially because she found out I would be there and partially because she was miffed at #3 for turning her down.
> 
> Anyway, at the party I was talking with #3's mom, and she talked all about how he had talked to her about how uncomfortable and weirded out he was by STBXW chasing after him... And about how he never would have done something like that to a friend.
> 
> ...


Hey you're as hot as the blackhawks! No don't tell her just say you are going out. It is tempting but NO.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

lee101981 said:


> No!


(Psssst! I was joking.) 

No worries... It was "I'm going to step out and go watch the hockey game with some friends," and "I got invited to a Super Bowl party Sunday afternoon. I think I'm going to go."

I can't help thinking, though, that it was a good thing STBXW decided not to go to the party. 

Networking for friendships... I've got a whole new crowd to run with now, simply by turning friends of friends into friends.


Pb.


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