# Spark never existed, can we build on that?



## NosparkCt (Jan 14, 2018)

My wife and I have been married for 11 years, dated for 2, engaged for 1, have 2 kids together and have a pretty good life. Since the start of our relationship it was clear there was a sexual imbalance. I wanted sex often and she didn’t want it more than a few times a month and we have discussed that issue on our own (each time i was frustrated it wasnt improving) roughly 2x a year about how to make that better. In hindsight we should have hit therapy way back then. Recently she saw a therapist and it turns out she claims she never had an interest in having sex with me but since evertything else was great in our relationship she buried that issue and hoped it would get better eventually. Since she had that feeling in prior relationships she feels that she can’t live like this anymore and we are discussing the option of divorce but I don’t think we are done trying. She convinced herself that the urge to have sex with someone either exists or it doesn’t but I am reading that it isn’t that simple and all of the dynamics of the relationship come into play to create the urge when working properly. Our couples therapy to date has been working on communication to get us (her) to open up to me and she finally explained the situation. Is it me or is this just the beginning of where we need to try to work on this assuming we both want to. I would assume sex therapists have some method to try to get us to a point where she does actually want to have sex with me. She feels like she has tried to work on this since day 1 so there is nothing left to try. I explained to her that she didn’t work on it she really just buried it and hoped it would improve on its own. I think that WE need to start working together to see if it has the possibility of improving. Please let me know what has worked for others at this point and what we should try.

Looking for posts from positive people who have suggestions only please. I know this may not end well and have accepted that so negative posts are not helpful to me.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

If your wife has given up, you are wasting your time. Seems like your wife is being very clear about this but you're not listening.


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## NosparkCt (Jan 14, 2018)

If she has given up I will move on, waiting to hear how she wants to proceed.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You want to hear positive things. To hear [from us] of anodes, not cathodes.


Telling you of our success stories, some flowery, heated stories '"and Odes' " of getting that fold she carries waist high, hot for you, not for other men.

Know this, if she is hot for intimacy, for sex, she will show it. With you......
-Or- with her hand in some private, secluded spot. 
Flailing away at her 'womenhood, that hooded beauty. 
Getting her desire out one way or another. 

A women who needs love and intimacy does not deprive herself, not entirely.
If she is hot, then she is hot.

There is no cold, then becoming hot.

Not that I could imagine, not that I could see.


Just Sayin'

Politely..

The Typist-


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

The unfortunate fact is that she simply does not understand why this is a problem for you - And if she does understand, she does not care enough to change. The first step to correcting a problem is to admit there is one. She simple does not feel that sex is an important component to life/your relationship, and thus will not acknowledge the problem. When you ask her directly about this, I fear that she is going to pay you a lot of lip service, and by lip service, I am not referring to satisfying type... 

I'm sorry. You have a co-parent friendly roommate, not a wife. Welcome to the club...


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Does she read tons of romantic novels?

Ther like porn for women and can give unrealistic of what true relationships are. 

Just like most women can't compete with porn beautiful hard bodies asking for anal or giving blowjobs all the time just dosen't happen in most marriages.

And most men can't compete with the fantasy of being the sexy aloof guy that will just keep coming on to them and then knowing just what she desires in bed.


But I agree if she just settled for a safe provider instead of a sexual connection then your wasting your s and her time trying to find something that wasn't there to begin with.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Did she have that "spark" in prior relationships? Does she compare you with previous relationships?


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## NosparkCt (Jan 14, 2018)

Edo she does realize this is a problem for me and her as well. In prior relationships she wanted to have sex. In ours she never really wanted to. That is where we are at now, she finally was able to say that and she says we both deserve better. I am just trying to find out if therapy can help bring her to the point where she wants to with me.


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## NosparkCt (Jan 14, 2018)

Tamat Yes she said she did have it in other relationships so she knows something is missing.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

All you can build on that foundation is a lifetime of frustration and unhappiness.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

NosparkCt said:


> Recently she saw a therapist and it turns out she claims she never had an interest in having sex with me but since evertything else was great in our relationship she buried that issue and hoped it would get better eventually.
> 
> Since she had that feeling in prior relationships she feels that she can’t live like this anymore and we are discussing the option of divorce but I don’t think we are done trying.
> 
> ...


The reading you did on the subject was most likely geared toward couples where there was attraction and that attraction was damaged by behavior. This is not the case with your wife. The attraction was never there in the first place for her. Whole different ballgame.

If sex therapists could manufacture attraction at the will of their clients we'd all know about it by now and they'd be making money hand over fist. The reality is that sexual attraction is a physical chemical thing not under our control.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

NosparkCt said:


> Edo she does realize this is a problem for me and her as well. In prior relationships she wanted to have sex. In ours she never really wanted to. That is where we are at now, she finally was able to say that and she says we both deserve better. I am just trying to find out if therapy can help bring her to the point where she wants to with me.


It sounds like she found you as great husband material/father material and hoped the sexual desires would come after. 

It sounds like she really f’ed you over. If she is saying you both deserve better she is already looking for better. If she hasn’t found it already.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> The reading you did on the subject was most likely geared toward couples where there was attraction and that attraction was damaged by behavior. This is not the case with your wife. The attraction was never there in the first place for her. Whole different ballgame.
> 
> If sex therapists could manufacture attraction at the will of their clients we'd all know about it by now and they'd be making money hand over fist. The reality is that sexual attraction is a physical chemical thing not under our control.


Maybe this, the above with hypnosis.

Illegal, oh so, tempting.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'd stop trying. If there was never a sexual she'll, I don't see how anything will bring about what never was and what has failed to catch during 11 years of marriage.

You can't manufacture sexual attraction. Sometimes it can develop over time but honestly, if it hasn't over 11 years it isn't going to.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

More likely she is waiting for you to acccept what she’s told you. 

There really are only three ways to have sex. 
1. I’m doing it with you
2. I’m doing it to you 
3. You’re doing it to me

For each type of encounter - someone initiates. Someone has to initiate, there is nothing wrong with that. Doesn’t matter who initiates in scenario 1, which has a mutual flavor. If your partner initiates the one way give, that’s fine too. We all gift partners with one sided experiences. 

But your entire sex life has likely been you initiating (2) type experiences. And to top it off, if you are normal, your conversations about sex were complaints about frequency (all about you), instead of trying to figure out why it’s bad for her. And yes it’s bad. Not neutral. 

You might want to learn how to read body language a bit better. 




NosparkCt said:


> If she has given up I will move on, waiting to hear how she wants to proceed.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

NosparkCt said:


> If she has given up I will move on, waiting to hear how she wants to proceed.


Sorry if you think this is negative, but reality is staring you in the face. She has no sexual attraction to you and never has. She wants a divorce. Where is the ambiguity?

The only question I have is why does she want the divorce? Is it because she wants to find someone else that she does desire or is it to escape your sexual demands? 

If it's the former, let her go. If it's the latter, decide if the other aspects of the relationship outweigh your sexual needs. Perhaps she will reconsider the divorce if you agree to an effectively asexual relationship. If that's what you want.

Most importantly, I suggest you open your mind. Asking only for positive feedback is a great way to fuel delusion. You have a situation that is highly unlikely to be resolved the way you want it to be. You can continue to chase that outcome, but at least do so with your eyes open.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

NosparkCt said:


> Tamat Yes she said she did have it in other relationships so she knows something is missing.


Let's look at this from an outsider's view:

1) She's had relationships before you and knows what they're supposed to feel like regarding attraction and sex.
2) She did not have that feeling with you, yet chose to marry you anyways, thinking she'd figure it out later.
3) Now that the hoped-for resolution hasn't happened, her solution is to divorce you.

She knows exactly what you need from this marriage, but she's not willing to provide it. Ordinarily, the advice would be to shake things up - look better, stop harping on sex, and have more individual accomplishments. The underlying theory is that she's become complacent. Being an independent, desirable man who doesn't need her will pay off with you being happier despite her ignoring your needs. Also, that passion may rekindle if she steps up her game to keep you around, but if she doesn't then you're in a better position to move on - a win/win for you.

But you aren't in this situation. There is nothing to rekindle. She wanted you as a provider, parent, and companion, not as a lover. That is the painful truth.

Telling you her feelings was very difficult for her - to the point of needing professional help. She still wants you around or she would have left by now. But by pressing the issue you given her what she sees as two bad choices - step up the sex or divorce.

So, you need to take her at her word and move on if you want a good sex life. And, if you are good enough for your wife to want you around, you'll find a woman who will value all that AND want you sexually.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Being celibate isn’t all that big a deal. 

But being celibate WHILE LIVING WITH SOMEONE YOU LOVE AND DESIRE - is very demoralizing for most folk. 





zookeeper said:


> Sorry if you think this is negative, but reality is staring you in the face. She has no sexual attraction to you and never has. She wants a divorce. Where is the ambiguity?
> 
> The only question I have is why does she want the divorce? Is it because she wants to find someone else that she does desire or is it to escape your sexual demands?
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I want you to select a woman in your life who you have zero physical attraction for. Zero.

Now I want you to imagine what a therapist might tell you to create attraction out of thin air. 





NosparkCt said:


> Edo she does realize this is a problem for me and her as well. In prior relationships she wanted to have sex. In ours she never really wanted to. That is where we are at now, she finally was able to say that and she says we both deserve better. I am just trying to find out if therapy can help bring her to the point where she wants to with me.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> I want you to select a woman in your life who you have zero physical attraction for. Zero.
> 
> Now I want you to imagine what a therapist might tell you to create attraction out of thin air.


Exactly.

Therapists are NOT miracle workers.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Are you still around? Reading? Post a response!

Have you ever come home from work, swept in through the door, picked your wife up, pushed her against a wall, smothered her in kisses, and then carried her into the bedroom to ravish her, without ever saying a word?

I did that sort of thing all the time, and my wife still let a friend seduce her just after our 5th wedding anniversary. Lies ensued, which is her crazy. Somewhere along the way I learned she was bored with sex with me.

About 15 months later I boiled over and got rough with her. She responded with lust. Now I am her Lord and Master, and she never gets bored.

My wife is totally unable to ever say what she wants. She just can't. I have to judge by her reactions.

Who knows, maybe your wife wants something she can't put into words.

Perhaps if you step outside what you normally do she might respond favorably... or have you arrested.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

WilliamM said:


> About 15 months later I boiled over and got rough with her. She responded with lust. Now I am her Lord and Master, and she never gets bored.
> 
> My wife is totally unable to ever say what she wants. She just can't. I have to judge by her reactions.
> 
> ...


At what point does this become helpful, if the act has a good chance of getting you a police record for sexual assault and her a case of PTSD? Why not just steal a car? You can get yourself on the police's radar without causing her a psychological injury.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

WilliamM said:


> Have you ever come home from work, swept in through the door, picked your wife up, pushed her against a wall, smothered her in kisses, and then carried her into the bedroom to ravish her, without ever saying a word?



His wife literally told him she is not sexually attracted to him, never has been sexually attracted to him, and can't live like this anymore. With that understanding, what you're suggesting is basically sexual assault. And I'm saying that as a Switch, but primarily the sub, in my own marriage.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

There are many things outside the norm he has not tried, I'm sure.

As for myself, I have found the results satisfactory.

The world belongs to the bold, not the timid. 

Rough sex is a real thing, even though many people are afraid of it. He might approach it in a way which won't frighten her, but intrigue her. 

Many people are involved in BDSM and I know at least some of them didn't discuss it before starting it. It just happens. A little of this, a little of that, and off to the races, so to speak. Since my wife displayed her interest in it so spectacularly I have read up on it quite a bit, and met several participants just for discussion. Do they tell me anything approaching the truth, who knows. But no one signs contracts. Life just happens.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

He did not say they stopped having sex, only that there is no spark.

I hope they don't have to negotiate beforehand each time they have sex.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

NosparkCt said:


> Edo she does realize this is a problem for me and her as well. In prior relationships she wanted to have sex. In ours she never really wanted to. That is where we are at now, she finally was able to say that and she says we both deserve better. I am just trying to find out if therapy can help bring her to the point where she wants to with me.


Do you have a better income, better family, higher quality circle of friends than those other men?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

It may not even be about her wanting to go the full on BDSM route, but simply having a man who is somewhat more aggressive, is assertive, and knows how to do different things so she doesn't have to talk about which make her feel the best(a man who can read her body language and listens to her moans and groans with a discerning ear), might be all she is looking for and unable to express. This is the type of man in erotic literature that is so well liked. 

With little to no knowledge about you, and no desire to learn the details, I figured I would add upon a previous post and offer a suggestion. Some men cannot do this or simply find it a turn off. 

In any case, good luck.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> It may not even be about her wanting to go the full on BDSM route, but simply having a man who is somewhat more aggressive, is assertive, and knows how to do different things so she doesn't have to talk about which make her feel the best(a man who can read her body language and listens to her moans and groans with a discerning ear), might be all she is looking for and unable to express. This is the type of man in erotic literature that is so well liked.
> 
> With little to no knowledge about you, and no desire to learn the details, I figured I would add upon a previous post and offer a suggestion. Some men cannot do this or simply find it a turn off.
> 
> In any case, good luck.


OMG. Please read the thread. OPs wife doesn't want to go ANY sexual route with him! She's not attracted to him. She never was. This advice is not helpful at all in a situation in which the women does not want any sexual involvement.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

MEM2020 said:


> I want you to select a woman in your life who you have zero physical attraction for. Zero.
> 
> Now I want you to imagine what a therapist might tell you to create attraction out of thin air.


Best advice ever on this topic.

Pure sexual attraction really can’t be manufactured — it’s either there or it’s not. There are certain men I encounter every day, at my work, in my neighborhood, friends, etc. who I cannot picture having sex with under any circumstances! Not in a million years. They are perfectly nice men, nothing wrong with them, but I have ZERO attraction for them; there is no chemistry, no “draw”.

My SO on the other hand — even when I’m mildly annoyed or even down right angry with him, I’m still insanely attracted to him. I think about him often throughout the day, and many of those thoughts are sexual. I often replay our most recent sexual encounter in my head and can’t wait for the next one.

I bet your wife doesn’t have those kinds of thoughts about you.

After 14 years, she’s never going to feel that way.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Livvie said:


> OMG. Please read the thread. OPs wife doesn't want to go ANY sexual route with him! She's not attracted to him. She never was. This advice is not helpful at all in a situation in which the women does not want any sexual involvement.


I did read the thread. Op said she had sex with former partners. Something is different. Rather than blaming her, since she isn't here to defend herself, but op is, I figured I would suggest something he can do. If he thought my post was not helpful at all or off target, he would have let me know he has tried this and it didn't work. 

I find your comments irrelevant and obtuse.

Women often find literary eroticism to be sexually stimulating. Making love to her mind is an important step. No woman is attracted to a book. There is no man present. There can be no natural attraction there. There is no male biology involved.


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## NosparkCt (Jan 14, 2018)

The responses above are all interesting and I hear you all loud and clear. I asked for positive feedback as I wanted to hear from someone who has been through this before and had some suggestions especially if it worked. Some assumed it was a lack of attraction, that isn’t what is being said. Just because someone looks good doesn’t mean you continue to want to have sex with them. I have had plenty of hot girlfriends who I stopped wanting to have sex with because of some other issue like they were crazy. There is another factor that she hasn’t put her finger on and I am hoping therapy will bring that to the surface to see if we can work on it or not. Maybe I suck in the sack, who knows. I am fighting for my life with my kids more than anything as that is the most important thing to me and I am proud of that. 

Also I didn’t reply earlier as I am not watching this thread non stop.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Often, not always, but often, the woman in this situation only suggests divorce when she’s reached the point of full blown sexual aversion. 

If he wants to learn how to be sexually aggressive / dominant that needs to happen with his next partner. Way too late here. 

And the lack of details provided tells me that things are likely worse than described. 





WilliamM said:


> There are many things outside the norm he has not tried, I'm sure.
> 
> As for myself, I have found the results satisfactory.
> 
> ...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I'm sorry man. She should have never married you. At least now she told you the truth. Move on, it won't get better. Things in life end. It's hard but it's life. The good news is your life is not over, you can meet someone who is into you and have a good rest of your life. You can't make her want you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NoSpark,

Your entire first post was about how - from the beginning - she lacked SEXUAL attraction to you. No one is saying you are not attractive. But SHE is saying that SHE isn’t attracted to you. And she is ALSO saying that sexual attraction is either present or absent and for her it is absent in regard to you. She is telling you the marriage is over. 

The most common reason a woman marries a man she isn’t attracted to - is for financial security. Not saying that is the case here, since only you know what motivated her as it clearly wasn’t sexual desire. 

The other factor working against you here is you. Specifically you have been demonstrating WAY too much ego protective behavior for the entirety of this relationship to have much hope of getting the real truth. 

And yes, it is extremely ego protective to CHOOSE not to ask basic questions related to desire in a low sex, sexually frustrating relationship before you traverse the staircase of commitment:
- engagement
- marriage
- and each child you add to the family

The fact that - only now - gun to your head (via divorce) - are you questioning whether you are good or bad in bed - shows a high level of determination to protect your self image. 

That ego protective response to sex is never limited to sex. It’s typically pervasive and for many/most women it is a turn off. And that turn off is separate from any technique or performance issues. 

The worst aspect of a full strength ego security system is that all the cameras and sensors point inward. Sadly it leaves you blind to your partners reactions. 

The way that often manifests here is that the person seeking help doesn’t respond to individual posts. They make vague general comments about the feedback they’ve gotten and tend to backtrack hard for their initial statements. 





NosparkCt said:


> The responses above are all interesting and I hear you all loud and clear. I asked for positive feedback as I wanted to hear from someone who has been through this before and had some suggestions especially if it worked. Some assumed it was a lack of attraction, that isn’t what is being said. Just because someone looks good doesn’t mean you continue to want to have sex with them. I have had plenty of hot girlfriends who I stopped wanting to have sex with because of some other issue like they were crazy. There is another factor that she hasn’t put her finger on and I am hoping therapy will bring that to the surface to see if we can work on it or not. Maybe I suck in the sack, who knows. I am fighting for my life with my kids more than anything as that is the most important thing to me and I am proud of that.
> 
> Also I didn’t reply earlier as I am not watching this thread non stop.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > OMG. Please read the thread. OPs wife doesn't want to go ANY sexual route with him! She's not attracted to him. She never was. This advice is not helpful at all in a situation in which the women does not want any sexual involvement.
> ...


She explained what is different. SHE WAS NEVER attracted to him. She said she isn't, and never was, attracted. That is the problem. There is nothing hidden about the issue, nor anything that can be done about it. Therefore, your advice was irrelevant, not my comment.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

NosparkCt said:


> The responses above are all interesting and I hear you all loud and clear. I asked for positive feedback as I wanted to hear from someone who has been through this before and had some suggestions especially if it worked. Some assumed it was a lack of attraction, that isn’t what is being said. Just because someone looks good doesn’t mean you continue to want to have sex with them. I have had plenty of hot girlfriends who I stopped wanting to have sex with because of some other issue like they were crazy. There is another factor that she hasn’t put her finger on and I am hoping therapy will bring that to the surface to see if we can work on it or not. Maybe I suck in the sack, who knows. I am fighting for my life with my kids more than anything as that is the most important thing to me and I am proud of that.
> 
> Also I didn’t reply earlier as I am not watching this thread non stop.





Livvie said:


> She explained what is different. SHE WAS NEVER attracted to him. She said she isn't, and never was, attracted. That is the problem. There is nothing hidden about the issue, nor anything that can be done about it. Therefore, your advice was irrelevant, not my comment.


Has his wife been here at TAM? 

Nospark, I'd assume these folks know much more than they are at liberty to tell. There is no other way to know wit this much certainty, another person's mind. Hire the toughest shark lawyer you can find. The expense will be worth it. It is likely that she is cheating with the comments here, but you have not found the evidence. 

Take her to the cleaners. Take the children, if possible. Take all you can get. Don't come back here. These folks aren't as interested in helping you as much as they are your wife. I've read no posts which lead me to believe the opposite. Get out of here and stay in counseling for yourself. Look up the 180 and start detaching, Go find a woman who wants you.

My gut is telling me they know. They won't help you. Staying here will only harm you and you will give your wife's attorney ammunition to hold against you. Good luck to you and be strong for you and your children.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

NosparkCt said:


> I am fighting for my life with my kids more than anything as that is the most important thing to me and I am proud of that.


That is admirable, although I don't think that's necessarily the best course of action. I stuck around, but I had a unique situation (my son had cancer so I had to be around to manage his care); otherwise, I probably would have bailed too.

If that is your goal, you need to make sure she knows you will not pester her for sex and serve her well regardless. That is if you can manage it. We're not robots, and you might find that an unfulfilling sex life leads to you to be a less-enthusiastic partner if not outright resentful.

Even with that, I would not get your hopes up too high. Your wife also needs to agree to accept a marriage without passion. For some people, that is just a deal-breaker regardless of how promising that person's other traits are. I've ended / not pursued relationships with well-off, hard-working ladies who check a lot of boxes, because that passion wasn't there for me; your wife might feel the same way.

You can't make her stick around. So, even if you give it your all and make it work from your end, keep your eyes open and don't assume she also will stick around absent that passionate feeling.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

NosparkCt said:


> Edo she does realize this is a problem for me and her as well. In prior relationships she wanted to have sex. In ours she never really wanted to. That is where we are at now, she finally was able to say that and she says we both deserve better. I am just trying to find out if therapy can help bring her to the point where she wants to with me.


Unfortunately therapy cannot cause physical attraction/chemistry. This really svcks and it is one of the worst things one can hear from their spouse. It will certainly hurt your self-esteem, however, don't let it deal a mortal blow to your confidence and self-esteem. Someday, you will hopefully be glad that she left because you'll be with a lady who is attracted to you.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

MEM2020 said:


> Often, not always, but often, the woman in this situation only suggests divorce when she’s reached the point of full blown sexual aversion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes, I agree.

Sadly my response, itself, was too aggressive. Usually I take a kindler, gentler approach.

I think what I find most unfortunate is I have not seen a man learn this at all. In trying they become belligerent and overbearing, instead of confident. They try to be bossy instead of finding a way to lead with such an air of strength the woman who loves them is eager to follow.

I do wish him well.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

NosparkCt said:


> Recently she saw a therapist and it turns out she claims she never had an interest in having sex with me but since evertything else was great in our relationship she buried that issue and hoped it would get better eventually.
> 
> Since she had that feeling in prior relationships she feels that she can’t live like this anymore and we are discussing the option of divorce but I don’t think we are done trying.
> 
> She convinced herself that the urge to have sex with someone either exists or it doesn’t but I am reading that it isn’t that simple and all of the dynamics of the relationship come into play to create the urge when working properly.





NosparkCt said:


> Some assumed it was a lack of attraction, that isn’t what is being said.


She has literally told you she is NOT sexually attracted to you and never has been. That's what not wanting to have sex with you means. If she was sexually attracted to you as she was to other men she dated, she'd want to have sex with you and you wouldn't be here.







NosparkCt said:


> Just because someone looks good doesn’t mean you continue to want to have sex with them.
> 
> There is another factor that she hasn’t put her finger on and I am hoping therapy will bring that to the surface to see if we can work on it or not.


I've told this story before, but it applies, so...

I went to a party and met a man there who was built like Mr Universe, had a handsome face to match the body, and had a great personality. In the course of the night we went outside to watch the property under the light of the moon. We kissed. Nothing. No spark. No attraction. Total dud. Was he an objectively attractive and well formed man? Yes. Was he a likable person who I found entertaining and interesting? Yup. Why wasn't I attracted to him? No clue. Blame it on pheremones or chemicals or what have you, but the bottom line is that I simply wasn't sexually attracted to that man regardless of his physique and charm. It was nothing he did or didn't do. It just wasn't there.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

No Spark,

I wanted to add that I've been in your situation and it didn't end well. My ex chose me because she wanted a nice home life and companionship, and comfort in her life. I was a hard working, smart, and handsome guy willing to sign up. Although I stated my expectations regarding sex, she disregarded her lack of drive because I checked the other boxes, figuring it would work out (which means she figured I would give in and stop bothering her at some point).

After a while those wants became irrelevant after they were met. I got my degree and was going places. We were building the life she wanted but the sex never came. She was content to get her needs met and avoid mine. When I confronted her, she said the sex would never happen. When I started focusing more on myself, she was resentful (even though I stopped seeking sex). And when I lost my job and the good paychecks stopped rolling in, she bailed.

My point is when a person want something, their ability to rationalize is amazing. Your wife didn't want you sexually but wanted to be married to you, so she found a way to justify it. The sex never happened and that didn't bother her too much. Now she wants out, she'll not provide for your needs ever, and she's comfortable with it just as when she married you. The fact you loved and invested 11 years with her doesn't matter. She's not happy and ready to move on. I'm not judging her, just stating the facts.

The silver lining here is that she's being honest and upfront with you. She's not continuing to use you, and she's not ambushing you with divorce papers. For the well-being of you and your kids you need to assume she is serious. Retain a good lawyer, determine your responsibilities and rights as a single parent (support payments, visitation, etc.), and get your affairs in order. Where will you live after divorce? Does your job have working conditions that will enable you to parent adequately on your own? If you work long or odd hours, or travel much, you'll want to change that if you want lots of custody time.

Don't get caught flat-footed on this. 



DTO said:


> That is admirable, although I don't think that's necessarily the best course of action. I stuck around, but I had a unique situation (my son had cancer so I had to be around to manage his care); otherwise, I probably would have bailed too.
> 
> If that is your goal, you need to make sure she knows you will not pester her for sex and serve her well regardless. That is if you can manage it. We're not robots, and you might find that an unfulfilling sex life leads to you to be a less-enthusiastic partner if not outright resentful.
> 
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

This is it. She took you to the cleaners and wasted you life. Time to take her. Crush her No Spark, with a good attorney, legally. 



DTO said:


> No Spark,
> 
> I wanted to add that I've been in your situation and it didn't end well. My ex chose me because she wanted a nice home life and companionship, and comfort in her life. I was a hard working, smart, and handsome guy willing to sign up. Although I stated my expectations regarding sex, she disregarded her lack of drive because I checked the other boxes, figuring it would work out (which means she figured I would give in and stop bothering her at some point).
> 
> ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

NosparkCt said:


> Looking for posts from positive people who have suggestions only please. I know this may not end well and have accepted that so negative posts are not helpful to me.


Positive posts?

I am positive your wife leaving you is the best thing that has happened to you in 11 years.
I am positive you are better off without her than with her.
I am positive you can find a more suitable / compatible wife.
I am positive you can have a better sex life with someone else.
I am positive that if you get divorced within the next year, and come back here 3 years from now, you will report that you are happier and more successful than you are today.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

2nt,

Vehemently disagree. Her behavior has been consistent from the start. The OP acknowledged that in his first post. 

It’s only bait and switch, if you provide BAIT. She didn’t. 

He’s been in denial for 13 years that isn’t on her. 




2ntnuf said:


> This is it. She took you to the cleaners and wasted you life. Time to take her. Crush her No Spark, with a good attorney, legally.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

NosparkCt said:


> My wife and I have been married for 11 years, dated for 2, engaged for 1, have 2 kids together and have a pretty good life. Since the start of our relationship it was clear there was a sexual imbalance. I wanted sex often and she didn’t want it more than a few times a month and we have discussed that issue on our own (each time i was frustrated it wasnt improving) roughly 2x a year about how to make that better. In hindsight we should have hit therapy way back then. Recently she saw a therapist and it turns out she claims she never had an interest in having sex with me but since evertything else was great in our relationship she buried that issue and hoped it would get better eventually. Since she had that feeling in prior relationships she feels that she can’t live like this anymore and we are discussing the option of divorce but I don’t think we are done trying. *She convinced herself that the urge to have sex with someone either exists or it doesn’t* but I am reading that it isn’t that simple and all of the dynamics of the relationship come into play to create the urge when working properly. Our couples therapy to date has been working on communication to get us (her) to open up to me and she finally explained the situation. Is it me or is this just the beginning of where we need to try to work on this assuming we both want to. I would assume sex therapists have some method to try to get us to a point where she does actually want to have sex with me. She feels like she has tried to work on this since day 1 so there is nothing left to try. I explained to her that she didn’t work on it she really just buried it and hoped it would improve on its own. I think that WE need to start working together to see if it has the possibility of improving. Please let me know what has worked for others at this point and what we should try.
> 
> Looking for posts from positive people who have suggestions only please. I know this may not end well and have accepted that so negative posts are not helpful to me.


No convincing needed. She is right. The desire is either there, or it isn't.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I get it. I do. Get her now, NOSPARK. The only way I would disagree is if it was a shotgun wedding or arranged and she had no choice. Then, you do all you can to make things fair. Otherwise, do it fast, bad and proud. Get those kids. Don't look back. Legally Crush her. 




MEM2020 said:


> 2nt,
> 
> Vehemently disagree. Her behavior has been consistent from the start. The OP acknowledged that in his first post.
> 
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Don't you come back here and post, either, NOSPARK. Read, but don't post. You'll get all you need from reading. Believe me. Don't be sad, be angry with control. Stay in counseling, just get this done as fast as you can. Do not give time to breathe. In the mean time, get help to get out of denial and never back in. Counselors can help you. 

Get that attorney!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Is it not all a bit premature? I mean why not first give them a chance to figure it out with a therapist what’s going on? Break up is always an option. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I believe that it is possible - but I say that in the same way that it is possible that we could be hit by a giant meteor and we all die today. 

I think you can gain her attraction and desire but you would have to make some very significant structural changes in your appearance, personality and lifestyle. 

In other words you'd have to become someone else. 

The problem with that is no one, including her, will know who that person would need to be.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

inmyprime said:


> Is it not all a bit premature? I mean why not first give them a chance to figure it out with a therapist what’s going on? Break up is always an option.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Of course breaking up later is always an option.

My advice though, is intended to have him get prepared for a separation given the likelihood that this is how it will end up.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Nospark, have you legitimately investigated the possibility she could be getting it somewhere else?

A woman with minor children and with no history of abuse , adultery, alcoholism/drug abuse or chronic unemployment in the marriage, rarely initiates divorce (or divorce discussions) unless there is another man involved somehow.

Also a woman stating she was never happy or never into sex with you after 11 years of seemingly good marriage is often a condition called "rewriting history" and that is a very classic sign of cheating.

I know you say this has kind of always been an issue vs a sudden change so that does lessen the suspicion somewhat, but I still think it would be prudent to do a thorough investigation on the down low to see if her affections may be directed elsewhere. 

There have been a lot of men on this site that have discovered their wife was cheating that had less warning signs and less red flags than this scenario.

I'm not saying she is or is not cheating. I am saying it is a possibility that may need to be looked into.

If she is getting it elsewhere, then all the counseling and discussions and work on the relationship will all be for nothing if she is getting those needs met elsewhere.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Therapy without the other person engaged, is just masturbation in front of two other people, the therapist and your partner.





inmyprime said:


> Is it not all a bit premature? I mean why not first give them a chance to figure it out with a therapist what’s going on? Break up is always an option.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> Therapy without the other person engaged, is just masturbation in front of two other people, the therapist and your partner.




Sure. But I am not getting the feeling she is not engaged. He seems to be getting some answers from her, through therapy. Even if they are not all the answers he wants to hear.

Also don’t sell masturbation short: we are all Great Masturbators here, without knowing all the ins and outs of a relationship 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

She’s fully engaged in the process of uncoupling. 

Perhaps some of the posters here are using her as a proxy for all the women who ever friend zoned them. Because the advice to *burn her, she’s a witch* feels similar to what I’ve seen directed at wandering spouses. 

If the OP is smart he will thank her for being honest and amicably divorce. They both tried to make it work. 




inmyprime said:


> Sure. But I am not getting the feeling she is not engaged. He seems to be getting some answers from her, through therapy. Even if they are not all the answers he wants to hear.
> 
> Also don’t sell masturbation short: we are all Great Masturbators here, without knowing all the ins and outs of a relationship
> 
> ...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> She’s fully engaged in the process of uncoupling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are likely right. But the witch thing always puts me off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Grow a pair. 

If an opinion different than yours bothers you this much, maybe you should hang it up. Besides, I think you have to dunk them in water. LOL

Take a look at your own life and the threads and posts you are usually in before you start throwing stones. You're gonna need a lot of windex. 





MEM2020 said:


> She’s fully engaged in the process of uncoupling.
> 
> Perhaps some of the posters here are using her as a proxy for all the women who ever friend zoned them. Because the advice to *burn her, she’s a witch* feels similar to what I’ve seen directed at wandering spouses.
> 
> If the OP is smart he will thank her for being honest and amicably divorce. They both tried to make it work.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Grow a pair.
> 
> If an opinion different than yours bothers you this much, maybe you should hang it up. Besides, I think you have to dunk them in water. LOL
> 
> Take a look at your own life and the threads and posts you are usually in before you start throwing stones. You're gonna need a lot of windex.


*Moderator note:-*

Please keep posts and comments within the boundaries of the posting rules on TAM.

Not sure what the rules are? This is what the founder of TAM has to say on the matter http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/2117-forum-rules-please-read-first.html


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

NosparkCt said:


> I asked for positive feedback as I wanted to hear from someone who has been through this before and had some suggestions especially if it worked.


By your own admission, my man, you want "positive" feedback which means you want someone to tell you can turn her from an ice berg to a hot tamale. You've got a number of years and kids invested so its understandable. Unfortunately, it ain't going to happen and the romantic side is going from bad to worse. You ain't listening to what the woman is telling you dawg. Women aren't cars you can simple change out or upgrade the part if something ain't working. Her saying that women either have desire for a man or she doesn't is her way (womanese) of saying, "certain guys bring it out in me but ain't one of them". Women are more visceral with sex than men, who believe if you don't like the way the look, just put a bag over their head. 
Something is missing in y'alls relationship. Everybody she or you have communicated with gets it but you don't. The woman has already ditched you in her mind and the guys past relationships she could get he jollies with may not be that far past at all. You may hang in there as a provider, but as a husband/lover, you're out. (beyond an occasional mercy fvck)


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Best thing you can do is crush her in court, Nospark.

Don't let the Mods scare you. They are human and have agendas. Believe me. I've seen it many times and that's why I mentioned living in glass houses, or rather needing windex. 

You can see the anger rising out of the truth of my statements. Take care of you. You got crapped on, not her. She used you. Get your children and love them as best you can. Make a new life and enjoy. Who cares about her? She is nothing.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Best thing you can do is crush her in court, Nospark.
> 
> Don't let the Mods scare you. They are human and have agendas. Believe me. I've seen it many times and that's why I mentioned living in glass houses, or rather needing windex.
> 
> You can see the anger rising out of the truth of my statements. Take care of you. You got crapped on, not her. She used you. Get your children and love them as best you can. Make a new life and enjoy. Who cares about her? She is nothing.


MODERATOR MESSAGE:-

Moderators have one agenda. To make sure that the posting rules, as set out by the site owners, are followed by all posters.

You, not the OP, were advised that your behaviour was unacceptable by way of a gentle reminder.

That wasn't about him, it was about you and your inability to abide by the rules of the TAM community.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

What kind of shape are you in? Have you tried hitting the gym? Whatever the case I would focus on yourself rather than her. Trying ignoring her for a while. That doesn't mean you are mean to her, just stop pushing for sex and carry on with your life normally. Maybe pick up some new cloths. Maybe take your kids out camping. Do stuff like that. Change something about yourself. I notice this with my wife. She wants sex the most when I have been super busy with kids, work etc and haven't paid so much attention to her.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

She has NEVER been attracted to him. The advice below can amplify desire - but there has to be a core of desire to work with. 




Rhubarb said:


> What kind of shape are you in? Have you tried hitting the gym? Whatever the case I would focus on yourself rather than her. Trying ignoring her for a while. That doesn't mean you are mean to her, just stop pushing for sex and carry on with your life normally. Maybe pick up some new cloths. Maybe take your kids out camping. Do stuff like that. Change something about yourself. I notice this with my wife. She wants sex the most when I have been super busy with kids, work etc and haven't paid so much attention to her.


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