# Fool for love?



## sojourner (Mar 19, 2011)

I am the wife of changehappens. I found out about his EA by stumbling across his posts here. He confirms what his posts say, that he ended the EA before I found out about it. I wasn’t supposed to see his posts, of course – but now I have. After more than two decades of marriage I find myself characterized as a “not physically affectionate” woman who will never change. That would be a surprise to my friends and children (and my dog), who I hug and kiss all the time. Of course, by “physical affection” my husband is referring to sex. Here, for what it’s worth, is the wife’s perspective on what happened to our sex life.

Our relationship included a strong physical attraction to each other from the start. Although we share the same general values, we are also different from each other. In general Love Languages terms, he is a “physical touch” guy and I’m definitely a “words of affirmation” woman. Beyond that, however, emotional intimacy has always been extremely important to me – sharing and talking through ideas, hopes, dreams, and feelings – while he admits he learned from a young age to keep himself much more emotionally distant and remote. Long story short, fairly early on in our marriage, I began to miss the emotional intimacy that I needed (and that I assumed, based on earlier relationships, was a natural part of any intimate relationship). Being young and stupid, I just assumed that this was the way it was to be, that I had no right to ask for something more – and, since I loved my husband, I carried on. I did, however, feel the emotional distance taking a toll on our physical affection – as hard as this may be to understand, there were even times when we had sex that I felt that I wasn’t really there to him as a real person. But as I said, I loved him and I carried on.

After our first child was born, I had a little maternity leave and then was back to my professional job, where I was supposed to bill 70 hours a week and work more. I was up at night with the baby and I was utterly miserable at being gone from that baby during the day. My husband began to pressure me for more sex and then – less than a year after the birth – dragged me off to a counselor who he expected would, as he said later, “tell me to have sex with him.” Instead, the counselor told him he should give me a break and told me, in private, that she “didn’t think he was having an affair.” As a struggling young mother, I found that assurance less than gratifying—even a little humiliating.

As our life went on, and we had another child, the emotional distance that I felt from him—particularly when we were physically intimate—continued. Of course many other experiences and feelings were woven into our marriage, and many ups and downs, and the fact that we shared values and a commitment to each other kept us going. There came a point, however, when I felt like I was only a roommate to him, not a wife – and I tried many times to explain how I felt and what I needed. He didn’t understand – not sure whether he really tried to or not—he used to ask why it was always about my needs and not about his. Finally, having sex with a “roommate” made me feel more and more bereft – like I was losing part of myself – I don’t know how to explain it any better than that. I told him that I needed emotional closeness outside of the bedroom in order to feel sexual, and then a long period of time went by without sex for us. He felt rejected sexually – I felt rejected as a person and a wife. I think now that we each fundamentally misunderstood the other.

What is missing from his posts here, and what was missing from our marriage in the past, is any self-scrutiny about our sex life on his part—any consideration of whether he was in any way responsible for our sex life, or for how I came to feel about sex. To dismiss me as just a physically cold person was a story that allowed him to avoid his own accountability and to justify betrayals of me (not limited to the current EA). With counseling a few years ago we revived our sex life as he slowly began to open up a little emotionally. (Memo to OW: In telling you we had no sex life, he lied – we were in fact having sex often and he gave every appearance of finding it, um, gratifying.) 

I believe—I hope I’m not deluded—that my husband is a good man who has for a long, long time let bitter resentment over sex in the past cloud his vision and justify actions that were out of character for him. We both made mistakes. I do love my husband, in spite of his secrets and betrayals over the last few years. 

I actually believe that ours is not an uncommon story at its heart – a woman who needs emotional intimacy to fuel physical intimacy, with a man who needs physical intimacy but won’t or can’t be very emotionally intimate. Whatever happens with us, I think we’ve hung on this long because we do have a strong love for one another in spite of everything. Although it’s not a bed of roses, I see my husband changing in good ways every day, and growing in understanding, and I know that I’ve changed and grown as well. Our biggest challenge now lies in being as emotionally open to and intimate with each other as we can, in spite of guilt and hurt. 

Please do let me know if you think I’m being a fool for love.


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## ThatHappyLittleFamily (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm new here today, as a result of recent happening in my own marriage, but not a stranger to marriage boards, or a spouse's EA. I fully understand your viewpoint, and I also think you have an astute judgement of a spouse's actions/justifications surrounding an EA. I have not read your husband's posts, but I think you are genuinely admirable in your accurate but also loving response to the trials your husband has put you through. I am also in a predicament where my husband and I are lacking an emotional connection, and our sex life... well, that's even more lacking. I just want to let you know that reading your post has helped me to pin-point and define a little more clearly, just a few of the problems persisting in my own marriage. Thank you.


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## mariem1967 (Dec 1, 2010)

i was thinking about this "phenomenon". I come here from time to time and try to help with advices from my own experience. 99% of cases here are black or white. For example, i was 100% ok, good, perfect and my hubby or wife was abusive, treated me bad, was drinking and spending all the money, didn't care about kids etc etc. I wish i can hear the other side too. So, i think that sometimes we're not realistic when describing our problems. We tend to hide our defects and to enlarge others.


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## friendly (Sep 21, 2010)

Thank you for creating your thread! For we all know what we can read here are mostly one-side statements but you have given this forum and its readers a chance to get to know that there's a full picture behind each marriage problem.
As a woman, I totally agreed that emotional connection is the fuel of physical affection.
I hope your husband understands that he should fulfill your needs so that you will enjoy a beautiful sexual life with your beloved husband again. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

friendly said:


> As a woman, I totally agreed that emotional connection is the fuel of physical affection.


Ditto!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thank you for posting. I hope you wil continue to do so. Please post in response to the threads from men who claim their wives are at fault for the sexless nature of their marriage. 

I have never read the other side of the equation and I really think input by woman like you can offer a more balanced view of the problem. There seems to be a great deal of hopelessness around changing the dynamic of a low/no sex marriage but perhaps it is because we don't have the full story. 

Frequently, when the male poster is questioned about his role in the problems, there is some defensiveness and the reiteration of the horrors of a sexless existence and his fruitles attempts to make his wife happy. 

If you read enough of these post from men who are getting less or no sex, the general consensus is that women pull the old bait and switch and deny men sex once they have the security of marriage and children. Women are cold and not interested in sex. Any attempt to counter this position is met with evidence from other men about the same thing happening to them. 

The common denominator may not be that woman are inherently disinterested in sex but it is just as likely that men who have problems with sex in their marriage have problems with emotional intimacy. 

They do not understand how important the emotional intimacy is so they dismiss it when their wives try to talk to them. It takes a while for woman to finally reach a tipping point. We endure years of loneliness and unhappiness before pulling the plug. To the man it seems sudden and unreasonable. But if they were paying attention they would have seen in coming. 

Thanks so much for posting and I hope you will continue and especially comment on other threads. 
It is so important to hear the other side


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It is SUCH a turn on when a guy gets you revved up by being romantic and sweet. Really taking his time to take your feelings into account and explain why he loves you.l It makes sex aweeeesome!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What is your husbands reaction to your post? How are things going? Do you think both posting will help your marriage?


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## sojourner (Mar 19, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> If you read enough of these post from men who are getting less or no sex, the general consensus is that women pull the old bait and switch and deny men sex once they have the security of marriage and children. Women are cold and not interested in sex. Any attempt to counter this position is met with evidence from other men about the same thing happening to them.
> 
> The common denominator may not be that woman are inherently disinterested in sex but it is just as likely that men who have problems with sex in their marriage have problems with emotional intimacy.
> 
> They do not understand how important the emotional intimacy is so they dismiss it when their wives try to talk to them.


Yes, I think that if you had asked him about this even a few months ago he would have said that he had always loved me and shown love for me, and that therefore what I was saying about lacking emotional intimacy made no sense. Because it didn't seem to him like anything was lacking in the emotional area, he dismissed my need for more intimacy there as not real -- and maybe even just an excuse for not having sex.

I think there are two things: (1) sometimes (not always) the way men and women feel about and experience sex is difficult for the other gender to understand; and (2) sex can be so fundamental to the way we view ourselves (maybe for men in particular?) that we tend to have kneejerk reactions to any possibility that we're being rejected sexually -- even if that's not what's really going on. 

On the other hand, I think after all we've been through and some honest attempts on his part lately to talk and listen, he understands a little the importance of emotional closeness for me -- or if he doesn't understand it exactly, he at least accepts it. That doesn't mean it will come easily for him. Like everything else, I imagine it will be a matter for compromise -- he tries to give a little more emotional closeness, I try to make the most of what I get to fuel the physical closeness, and hope that more of each thing leads to more of the other, if that makes sense. 

What else is there to do, after all?


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## sojourner (Mar 19, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> What is your husbands reaction to your post? How are things going? Do you think both posting will help your marriage?


My husband's reaction beforehand was reserved, but afterward he actually said that reading my post helped him understand things -- even though these are the same things I've been saying for years now. I guess I do think we should be talking to each other in person, not on a website . . . but these are my first posts ever on this kind of board so I don't really know yet.

He's having a hard time with guilt and maybe a little guilt-related depression. Those feelings are making it difficult to develop more closeness and to move in a positive direction, much less deal with my issues about trust, but we seem to be getting there slowly.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Does he feel guilty because he was posting, or had an EA or because he knowingly misrepresented you and his role in the problems? 

I searched and frond his post and it seems that he was pretty well done and planning on a divorce. Did he make that apparent to you at the time. He may have deleted some post but I did not see the EA mentioned in the post I read. 

I am not so sure that posting on these forums are uniformly helpful in all circumstances. If the poster presents a fiction and reinforces delusions then that can't be good. If posts are an outlet for the expression of heartfelt and honest emotions that have no other outlet, this may be good. Can you print out his post read them and carefully consider what he says and the motivation for the misrepresentations? I hope you will be able to talk directly about all of the issues that the post have revealed. Especially the the misrepresentations - are they honest one person seeing things through their lens or a deliberate attempt to appear righteous. Maybe he was working up the courage to ask for a divorce and created a persona with justified grievances. 

This is difficult, we rarely get insight into what a person is really thinking so in a way, you are reading what he never meant that you would see. From that standpoint, you have caught him out and it is embarrassing no doubt because you know him and can see through his post. In away, you are getting to see a part of who he really is and you have to decide if you like this person and if you can love them. You both have much to think about, you have to identify what is authentic and decide to be honest and transparent with each other or the relationship we be as frustrating and unhappy in the future as it is now.

It may be good for you to think in terms of your well being, can you trust what your husband's motives and what he tells you? Do you have a backup plan if he is hiding his true intentions about staying in the relationship or is he working up an exit strategy. Take care of yourself and watch carefully, stay on top of finances, don't give your trust with out checking and rechecking. I am a little more paranoid than average but with the rate of divorce and infidelity I am very practical - I always have a contingency exit strategy it is foolish to place all of your investments in an expedition that has a 50% chance of failure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sojourner (Mar 19, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Does he feel guilty because he was posting, or had an EA or because he knowingly misrepresented you and his role in the problems?
> 
> I searched and frond his post and it seems that he was pretty well done and planning on a divorce. Did he make that apparent to you at the time. He may have deleted some post but I did not see the EA mentioned in the post I read.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He did delete the EA posts. We have discussed his "divorce" post to death--I did print it out--and he says he is in a completely different place now. He says that now that I know about the EA and things are open between us a fog has lifted from his eyes and that what he wants is our marriage.

I think the chance that I am married to a chronic liar / serial cheater / exit strategist is real but small and that he probably is what I believe he is -- a good man who did stuff that was out of character for him out of resentment etc. (oversimplification, but nevertheless). I have a job I love, something of a support system, a great relationship with two very together kids in college, a lot of inner strength and emotional resilience (as I've discovered in the last few years), and no fear of being alone. I want my husband and my marriage because I love him and I see the potential there, not because I'm stuck or afraid.

Is it possible to go from a near-death marriage that was sexless a few years ago to a flourishing one? Not saying it will be easy, but hope springs eternal . . . and based on the connection between us today, at least, I say yes.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You sound like a well put together woman, many woman with cheating husbands seem weak and to grovel and beg. It is extremely upsetting to see, I am glad to read of a woman with a sense of her own worth. We need more like you on this forum. I think women who are all too willing to beg the wandering man to come back reward their behavior and may give men a false sense that if they cheat there will be few consequence. Not only that , some wives actually bend over backwards to do what ever it takes to keep him. I doubt if that is representative of society at large, since woman are initiating divorece at 3 times the rate of men. 

I have a question why did he delete the post about the EA? It it an attempt to deceive you? Are you certain he no longer has contact with her? I do believe that you can come back from the brink of divorce but I think the wonder spouse has to taste the anxiety and fear of losing their spouse to make them truly switch. Without that, they may give surface aquesence to reconciliation because they are sure that they are the ones who will leave and the loyal spouse will always be their for them no matter what they do. 

I was two days away from leaving marriage, what stopped me was a chance reading of a relationship book that made me reconsider, nothing my husband said disuated me. I was done and looking forward to a life free of the stress of dealing with him. I love my husband very much but love is not enough to maintain a relationship. I have a profession and two children that I am well able to care for if we divorced. 

It was only when I was ready to walk that my husband finally realized that my request for change was not something could ignore with out consequences. He has changed back to the man he was before we had kids and that Is a great deal and so have I. I really do not think he would have felt the impetus to completely change if he though that their was  little risk by not listening. Sometimes it takes a shock to wake a person up and make them think and own up to their part in the problems. It is easy to blame the spouse and to feel righteous. 

I hope you are being careful about the reconciliation and that you don't accept less than 100 % commitment and acknowledgement of the pain that the affair has engendered. Don't give cheap forgiveness. He has to atone and if he is not willing to commiserate with you in your pain and mistrust then, I think you should consider separating till he sees the light, if he ever does. 

His story was quite convincing and I wonder if he believed it and why he lied about his role in the problems. I hope he acknowledges the fictitious nature of the post and is able to explain them. As for his guilt - don't let him hide behind his guilt to avoid owning up to and atoning for his deception. If you feel inhibited from asking him to do things to help you over your pain because of sympaty for his guilt, don't. If he is using his guilt to deflect you from expressing you anger towards him then he is still being selfish. He is responsible for what he did and your hurt is more important that his feelings of guilt. Don't let him follow the same path of self centereness and ignoring your needs. You can not expect any lasting change if the reminants o his former dynamics are still being used to deny you what you need. . 

I am practical, tanks to my mother who was stuck in a bad marriage, I never got myself backed into a conner by not working and I did not have more children than could manage on my own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I think there is a close cousin to the situation you're describing where only once side of the story is heard. In my personal life, I read people. As a leader, its part of the job. Here, you see far too many cases, especially from a few of the long timers on the board, where a person describes their story and the poster tries to fit them into a box based on stereotypes, or uses their indescriptive writing to fill in the blanks and make judgement calls.

Each situation is unique. Even as a guy, I found similarities with what you describe as your own case. I can't help but wonder how other people would view us if my wife were the one posting here, though.

What really burns me, though, is to find the sterotypes in the therapists we pay. My wife and I have attended marriage counseling about twelve times. Because my love language is verbal, she'll describe me as cold, whereas I was just lost and confused in the early years because she doesn't feel comfortable saying positive things about a person. After a few years, I learned to hear her through her actions, and focused on the physical touches she needed throughout the day. She has problems, however, with extreme anger, but it is fueled sometimes by imagined offenses. The doctors say it is part of her Bipolar mania. 

Without exeption, every therapist gives me all the homework at first. It becomes classic that after three or four meetings with a therapist, hever, that they do a sudden 180, and we've had a few that have told her that she will be single one day if she doesn't take a more active approach in the disease therapy. This is why we start with a new therapist. She quits after the turn, accusing me of conspiring with them.

In your case, it really sounds like you know what's going on in the relationship, and I admire your ability to adapt and continue in a positive direction.


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