# having second thoughts about marriage



## OrangeCrush (Sep 12, 2012)

I’m engaged to my fiance, and I am having second thoughts and would like to know what other people think about this. 

I get on really well with my fiancé’s friends, except he has this one friend (S) who is one of the most negative, bitter, angry, critical people I have ever met. But F thinks S is the coolest person ever and says often how much he wishes he could be like him. S has not accomplished anything, he is not able to keep relationships because he cheats and demeans women and has few friends because he treats people terribly, always cutting them down. So I don’t see why F is so enamoured of him, except that F has a very mild personality and is sensitive, and I think he wishes he could say shocking offensive things and be like “I don’t care what anyone thinks of me” the way S is. 

So F allows S to run his life and make all his decisions for him. If S does not like someone, F will stop talking to that person. If S wants F to do something, F will drop everything and do it whether he really wants to or not. F will never, ever disagree with S and will get angry if anyone else does. He will not make any choices without consulting S first, and then he does whatever S tells him to do.

After this weekend, I don’t think I want to be married to him. Friday night- I’m in a play, and S got tickets to a concert and wanted F to go there instead. I am fine with this, and I told him that I don’t mind at all if he goes. So then S starts ranting “she doesn’t really mean that; it’s a test and she will punish you for going with me. It’s a thing that all women do, women are manipulative like that, you'd better get used to being on her leash from now on". 

I dug into my bag and gave S two pennies and said thanks for your opinion, here’s what it’s worth to me. Then F got mad at ME for "being rude" to HIM. 

Then Saturday we went out, and in the car on the way home S starts telling F that he is making a mistake and he shouldn’t marry me, and that he should go out with lots of other women and have fun instead of “settling down” with me. Then he says to me that I am selfish and I am trapping F and if I cared about him I would let him go. THEN he says that I am nothing special (“no offense”) and “it’s just a p*ssy” and “maybe you can get a girl who doesn’t always sound like she’s got balls in her mouth” (S makes fun of my accent all the time). F says nothing but just stares at the steering wheel and looks like he’s constipated. Finally I say to him, “you have nothing to say?” and he says “just let it go and let’s have a nice night”. Wtf? I got out of the car at the next red light and walked away. F drives the car into the gas station parking lot and gets out and says “don’t be ridiculous, get back in the car” and I said “I have had enough of this disrespect, drive your assh*le friend home and don’t talk to me”. I walked home crying and I still feel horrible and don’t know what to do. 

F has called me lots of times since then but I haven’t answered because I don’t know what to say or do. I love him, but I don’t want a man who is so weak that he allows others to run his life and cannot make up his own mind. And that F admires so much this person who is cruel to everyone and hates women? That says something to me about F himself. I am so disgusted with him right now and I would rather break up with him than be married, because I feel like it would be to marry S also! 

But I want to know if anyone else has another perspective. What would you do, if you were me?


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Print this thread out and send it to him. You are right to not marry him.

The person you marry should lovr you completely, protect you and never let any one speak disrespectfully around you let alone to you. It's not OK.
His friend sounds jealous and childish and if your fiancé wants to be his minion then he should definitely stay friends with him. 

IMO real men have their own set of values that are Rock solid and cannot be swayed by a friend or anyone else. 
If he does not realise the importance of your relationship then you should move on. You will find someone more compatible and mature.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I'd feel the same way you do, and I would explain how his actions are showing me that he prioritizes his friend more than he does me whether he means them to or not, and that I cannot go into a marriage feeling that way.

What happens next would be on him.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

Oh wow. I think S is jealous firstly, that F has you and he has no one. That's why S keeps trying to get involved in your relationship. 
And F? He needs to man up! Sit him down, ALONE, without S there, and tell him how you feel. You can't stay with him if there's going to be a 3rd person in your relationship, F has to choose; you or S. 
And tbh, I think he will choose S!

Never settle for second best. 
How old are you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

this guy will not make a good husband. He doesn't have any self confidence and he doesn't have enough courage to stand up for himself , or enough respect for you.

Tell him you are done, and show him these comments , unless he stops associating with this guy and grows "a pair of his own"


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

A negative friend is never a good thing for a relationship. Why is this S being a third wheel so much? No woman wants a weak punk for a man. That would be a big turn off for me. Can it be that F is really in a relationship with S. I mean come on yall can't do anything without S. This is a big red flag cause some men are on the DL (down low). This S has to much control over your man. Plus S is a wanne b player. That is the last thing you need your man around. You need to think about it. Do you really want to marry a man that don't stand up for you? F lets S disrespect you and thinks its funny. You got a weak man in this F. Girl you need to drop that and find yourself a real man. It is not just S being the problem. This F is a weak little boy and you can do better.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

S is jealous of F and is sabotaging his relationships. Tell F that and break up with him. S is totally making a fool of F


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

Sounds like F and S should be the one's getting married. Sheesh, what a nightmare. I agree with the other posters that say this marriage should not move forward until you start receiving some respect from both F and S. And F should not aspire to be like S in ANY WAY! This person is going to come between you two your entire relationship -- married or not. My ex had a toxic friend who yelled and disrepected me. I demanded an apology. My bf asked friend to give me one and friend refused. But who did my bf get upset with? ME! Because I "couldn't let it go" and "get over it". Yup, one of the reasons why he became an ex. 

Ask F that when you two get married and you essentially become a family, how would he feel if S treated his FAMILY like that? F needs to open his eyes to this guy. 

I'm so sorry. And yes --- S is completely jealous of you. No doubt about it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Run, don't walk.

Your Fiance is not husband material. Thank God you discovered this before marriage.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

They are having a *bro-mance* and S is jealous. You don't need that sh!t. Get out now!!!


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## Aggie (Sep 5, 2012)

Wow, this S guy has your F seriously under his thumb. This S sounds like he has an alpha personality, and is jealous that he might be losing what he considers his follower.

This is definitely not a guy you want your future husband hanging around. He'll most likely try to get your F to do things that a single person would do. So when you are married, he'll suggest things like strip clubs, frequently going to bars, etc. He'll probably also be asking for all of the details of your relationship and then consistently point out your flaws.

These are the types of friends I dropped when I got married - I couldn't afford to have them after I was married. That's not something my wife told me to do, however, but something I did after I understood the situation a bit more. I think if she told me to get rid of my friends, I would have probably been defensive and resistant to it.

How long have you two been together? If it hasn't been that long, this might be one of those times where you can use "the fog" in your favor. You might be okay if your F realizes this guy is not a healthy friend, but he may not. Now would be a great time to reevaluate if you want to marry F or not.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm the last person to usually propose "manning up" - but, your fiancee needs to "man up" and stop having the entire point of his existence his function as sycophantic toadie to an abusive, corrosive friend, who cares no doubt, as little for him as he does for everyone else. He needs to learn to think for himself. 

The fact that he let "S" openly insult you in a number of ways and said absolutely nothing says he is very poor husband material. He will not see the two of you as a "unit" to protect from the outside world. Further, would you feel comfortable if "S" talked him into cheating, or - engaging in other poor behaviors, because it seems like your fiancee has no mind to ever tell him no. 

I'd tell him frankly that you've been considering S's proposal that you should "let him go," because it's obvious your relationship has little to no importance to him. You are not going to be referred to as "only pu$$y" right to your face, nor do you take lightly to his unwillingness to verbally standup for your relationship, and that you are looking for a man who is willing to show you some respect. He needs to choose if he is that man, or if you need to move on. 

From personal experience, I had an ex-fiancee who had a work friend very much like S, he ranted about women (was three times divorced), was tragically disrespectful, encouraged him to go with him and hang out in strip clubs. During disagreements, my ex would quote this man's words of wisdom about women, and how we are all just man-eating harpies, and eventually, this work friend pruned my ex into not only being increasingly disrespectful, but eventually also physically violent to "put me in my place." 

Don't let things get to that point. This friend is and will continue to be a horrifically poor influence on your fiancee, and until your fiancee can wake up and realize that, your relationship will continue to have problems, and - what you've seen already might only be the beginning, if S has his way.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

There is a difference in admiring someone who stands up for themselves by setting people straight as oppossed to someone who is rude, crude and obviously has issues with women. Yes, S saying that in your presence and F not at least stopping him is not a good sign at all. 

S has obvious issues and he is the DEVIL with a plan to keep his friend single. I would be concerned about his influence over F and if F has enough backbone to tell S no with things he doesnt like or want to do since it seems S dominates the friendship.


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## OrangeCrush (Sep 12, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> IMO real men have their own set of values that are Rock solid and cannot be swayed by a friend or anyone else.


that is one of the things I'm worried about...what if F doesn't stand up to S because underneath it all he actually agrees with his 'values'? that would be a nightmare, to get married and then realize that he really does view people and life the same way as S does!

StarStar & Aggie, he already does do things like that...going out to bars and S trying to get phone numbers from girls for F. ick.

And yeah, he does ask for all the details of our relationship and point out everything that he thinks is wrong with me. 

IrishGirl, that happens too- when I speak up for myself, F gets annoyed with me; he thinks I should just not talk back. The last time we went to a concert with some other friends (why does half of this stuff always happen in the car, where I can't get away from him? :scratchhead: ), S threw my hat out the car window. (First he started criticizing what I was wearing, and when I did the same to him, he escalated it by throwing the hat out). I was furious and started to tell him he owes me $ AND an apology, and F was like "I'm trying to have a nice day here, can you just let it go?". 

I'm 25, F and S are both 24. aka waaaay too old to think that tossing someone's stuff out onto the highway is funny.

idk. the more I think about it over the past few days, and the more I read here, I've decided to call off the wedding. I feel like my heart is being ripped out; we've been together for 2 years and it feels like I have to rethink everything now and idk, I just feel overwhelmed right now. But I would honestly rather be single and lose F, than to put up with S for one more day. I've tried talking to him about all of this, several times; he blows me off and says that I just don't understand S and it makes him sad that I don't see what an awesome person he is. 

And there is still a problem even without S, because F is not willing to speak for himself or make decisions on his own and he lets other people tell him what to do. I definitely don't want a domineering man, but I also don't want someone who is totally spineless either. 

idk...I know what I have to do, but not looking forward to it.  I really appreciate all the advice; thank you so much for listening and taking time to share your thoughts.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

I once dated this moron who still gave into peer pressure in his FORTIES. He wasn't very bright, so he would tell me that his friends were telling him to treat me badly so that I would stay around. 

Please do not marry this little boy. Your fiance can marry his friend if he is so concerned about pleasing the jerk.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

OrangeCrush said:


> that is one of the things I'm worried about...what if F doesn't stand up to S because underneath it all he actually agrees with his 'values'? that would be a nightmare, to get married and then realize that he really does view people and life the same way as S does!
> 
> StarStar & Aggie, he already does do things like that...it started with them going to a porn shop, and it seems like when S realized that I had no problem with that, he had to ramp it up and find something that would actually upset me. So then it was a strip club, and again, it's okay with me if F has a lapdance or whatever. So then it was going out and making a big deal about getting some other girl's number for him. And then he thought it was funny that I was hurt by that.
> 
> ...


You need to let him go now . Don't marry this man who can't respect you. He let's his best friend rule your relationship.


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## La Rose Noire (Jun 20, 2012)

OrangeCrush said:


> I'm 25, F and S are both 24. aka waaaay too old to think that tossing someone's stuff out onto the highway is funny.


Maybe so, but it's not old enough for most guys to marry. 

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I think men our age aren't like what they used to be in previous generations. They're babies. Sure, there are some exceptions, but they're rare. Most aren't ready to marry until they hit 30. Under 25? Yeah, good luck. 

You can bet your ass he's going to cheat with a friend like that encouraging him. He idolizes his friend because he has the life he wants. He wants to be able to go out and **** as many girls as he can, but he knows he's not able to (he's not as smooth as his buddy) so he's settling for you. Once he's confident enough, believe me he will cheat. 

He didn't stand up for you when his friend said you were just p****. Why? Because that's what you are to him and you're probably the only girl he thinks he can get. Any man with an ounce of love or respect for you would have punched him in the face for saying that to you.

Do NOT marry him. You WILL regret it.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

OrangeCrush said:


> that is one of the things I'm worried about...what if F doesn't stand up to S because underneath it all he actually agrees with his 'values'? that would be a nightmare, to get married and then realize that he really does view people and life the same way as S does!
> 
> StarStar & Aggie, he already does do things like that...going out to bars and S trying to get phone numbers from girls for F. ick.
> 
> ...


 
Amen, and I understand totally


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Get the h*ll out and count yourself SO LUCKY!

I think this is mostly about S enjoying having a butt-kissing, fawning admirer in F than it has to do with you. S has NO friends, no life, so he is sabotaging F's life so F will always be around to tell S how GREAT he is. Perhaps F will EVENTUALLY figure this out when he's lost several relationships at the behest of S.

Run now! If you start to feel your resolve weakening, imagine how S will treat your children when THEY take F's time away from S. Will your sons be bullied? Will your daughters be demeaned? You know darned well F will just sit there and take it and tell the kids how Uncle S is just joking and child is just being a cry-baby. Run, run, RUN. And don't look back. S is total poison to EVERYONE in his life and that will NEVER change.

Wipe your shoes of that spineless F once and for all. Tell him that YOU'VE decided you need to be with a MAN. One who makes his OWN decisions. One who does not need someone else to tell him how to act, how to feel, what to think. Tell him you hope he enjoys his life as you now intend to enjoy yours and that F should NEVER contact you again. No phone calls, no cards, no emails, no nothing. You are moving on with your life and it will NEVER include him. And THEN....MEAN IT. [just think about your future kids you're protecting from a gutless father and an abusive uncle].

Change your phone number if you must, do not even OPEN any emails or snail mails from him...throw them out unopened. Take a vacation if you need to so you will be TOTALLY UNAVAILABLE if F decides to drop around. PROTECT YOURSELF from this sick situation.

BTW: I once met a misogynist like S...it was unbelievable! Hated all women (and he had a daughter, the poor thing!). What a douche!


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## Anomnom (Jun 25, 2012)

Definitely trust your gut on this one and be so grateful you've come to this point before marriage. You are still so young, don't throw your life away to be with someone who has no respect for you and lets someone talk to you the way S does without saying a word. Unbelieveable!! 

The hat incident also sounds like he has the potential to be abusive..whether that is verbally, emotionally or even physically down the track. Get out now and find true happiness with someone who cherishes you above their horrible friends.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I would get together with him one time, one on one. And instead of berating F, which he deserves, I would ask him some questions. 
1. Who has tried to control him, you or S? 
2. Who is disrespectful to him, you or S? 
3. Does he think it is ok for S to degrade the woman he's engaged to right in front of both of them? 
4. Who is being manipulative, you or S? 
5. How can 'you', survive emotionally when S deliberately creates schedule conflicts by buying tickets on a night that is already planned, and then accuses you of lying when you tell him it is ok to have a boys night out? If you had said 'I am mad', that makes you controlling, and saying it is ok makes you a liar. 

And keep it to that. Ask the questions and then if you don't like the answers, get up and leave.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm sorry, but I (respectfully) TOTALLY disagree with MEM11363.

If she has to explain all of the above to F (and she DOES), then F is NOT someone who is mature/adult enough to be getting married.

If F agrees with all of the above, dumps S, then marries OrangeCrush, just WAIT for the FIRST BIG FIGHT THEY HAVE when S's name will be thrown around quite freely..."you just don't want me to have any friends, you made me dump S and he really understood me, S was right you're just a controlling b*tch, I should have listened to S." Maybe he'll go out and hunt up S at the strip clubs, hook-up bars, etc. and commisserate in person with S and some cheap tramp (because F has no backbone.)

The fact is, F has NO BUSINESS getting married to anyone. He's too immature and gutless. S is just the vehicle that opened OrangeCrush's eyes to the fact that he's spineless.


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## Tufluv (Oct 27, 2010)

If a person(your fiance) is that easily influenced by others, no-one will ever be able to trust him in a relationship. He is not even friend material because he will betray a friend at a moments notice depending on who he is hanging around with. DO NOT marry this man. Anyone who is that easily influenced by others, will make many poor choices in life and will royally screw up your life. These type of people are like ticking time bombs because you never know what someone will ask them to do.

I am talking from experience. I had the same doubt the week before my 1st wedding but married the man anyway. He was an outgoing, nice, professional and successful man. I thought. Biggest mistake of my life. I spent 12yrs with him. All 12yrs, I was always digging him out of messes that he created by making bad choices because this person or that person asked him to do something. It was a fricking psychological roller coaster and he got us in to huggggge problems all the time. I had to work out a deal with his employer not to press charges and sue him because he commited fraud on some paperwork because his sales manager told him to. Ughh, and it was always something like that every month. It was exhausting, and yes, eventually he cheated too, anytime I tried to tell him to quit letting other people push him into doing things he knew better not to do...I was the bad guy and there was always another woman sitting on a bar stool to listen to him complain how terrible and mean his wife was. He cheated almost everytime we had the slightest disagreement. These types of people cannot be trusted even within your eyesight because they are so easily influenced by others. RUN, and RUN FAST!


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

OrangeCrush, no need to beat this to death because it is exceedingly clear that your fiancé is not a man yet. He is a little boy infatuated by his hero friend. He has proven several times that he is not his own man and not ready for any type of a relationship, not to mention marriage.

So dump his little boy arse today, and after doing that, you're not done yet. Next, you need to get yourself to therapy and explore what issues you have, that would cause you to be in a two relationship with an immature toadie.

To try to discuss this further with the pu$$y and/or his hero friend is exceedingly foolish because there is no point, because there is no decent future with this little man.

Get out, stay out, and never contact/discuss with him again. Don't even keep him as a friend. Flush that floatie down the toilet because life is too short to have such friends in your life.

This is the advice I'd give one of my adult daughters if this happened to them.

In summary:
1. Dump the little boy.
2. Maintain no contact.
3. Do not become friends.
4. Get yourself into therapy to fix the cause of your involvement with such a fool.
5. Look at your bright future, not focusing on the loss of a fiancé.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> I would get together with him one time, one on one. And instead of berating F, which he deserves, I would ask him some questions.
> 1. Who has tried to control him, you or S?
> 2. Who is disrespectful to him, you or S?
> 3. Does he think it is ok for S to degrade the woman he's engaged to right in front of both of them?
> ...


This is a huge waste of time!

Dump and move on, period!


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## OrangeCrush (Sep 12, 2012)

I ended it with F. I feel like I 'should' be more upset, but honestly right now I mostly just feel relief. 

The last time he called, I finally answered and he asked if we could talk. I met him at his house bc I had some of my things there. When I got there, I thought maybe he was going to apologize for last weekend, but instead, what he wanted to talk to me about was "what would you think about having an open relationship? because I really love you and don't want to lose you, but I also wonder if maybe there's someone else out there and I think I need to date other people too. But I don't want to lose you."

(OBVIOUSLY i know who suggested THAT idea to him.) At that point i was just so sick and tired of all the bs and games and drama that I just started laughing. 

Finally I told him that if he values me so little that he thinks I'm going to sit at home and wait for him to decide whether or not he can find someone "better", then I didn't want to be with him at all. during the whole conversation i had trouble figuring out if he really was that clueless and didn't see how insanely disrespectful that is, or if he knows full well and was just being an ass. Then I realized it didn't matter; I was just done with him and the whole relationship. 

seriously, thank you, each one of you who replied with advice; it helped so much just to know that I'm not crazy and that other people agreed it would be reasonable to call off the wedding for all of this.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm old enough to be your Mom so I'm sending you BIG motherly hugs! I am SO VERY GLAD for you. You will NEVER regret this move.

I'm proud of you and I know EVERYONE here at TAM is VERY happy for you tonight!

*hugs*


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What an idiot!! And next time, pick a better guy. How do guys like even end up with gf in the first place. Expect him to come back in a few days asking to get back but ignore him.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

OrangeCrush said:


> F has called me lots of times since then but I haven’t answered because I don’t know what to say or do. I love him, but I don’t want a man who is so weak that he allows others to run his life and cannot make up his own mind. And that F admires so much this person who is cruel to everyone and hates women? That says something to me about F himself. I am so disgusted with him right now and I would rather break up with him than be married, because I feel like it would be to marry S also!
> 
> What would you do, if you were me?


Tell him exactly this, which you've written here. 

Also, tell F that you want to be married to a man who is able to defend his wife -- even against his domineering buddies, and that if he cannot stick up for you when someone else is putting you down, then you will not marry him. Tell him it is not a test of loyalties, but, simply a problem of disrespect.

F and S seem to have a sort of co-dependent friendship with some kind of emotional incest going on. It's not at all uncommon. S has a big personality and it is made bigger because he pushes F around. F has a small personality and feels special because S gives him time and attention.

This is their friendship and you can't change it. However, you can let F know what you expect out of your marriage and where your boundaries lie. No one, not even S is allowed to disrespect you without F standing up for you; that is your demand. At the moment, F's primary relationship is with S. That is changing and he is detaching from S and learning how to attach to you. That will take time. Provided that S doesn't poison your friendship or drive a wedge between the two of you, you two can deepen your bond and eventually the relationship between you and F will be primary and the relationship between F and S secondary. In order to enable that, you have to talk to your F about his relationship with S. S will undoubtedly try to drive a wedge between the two of you because your rejection of his supreme dominance threatens his fragile ego and he can't have his submissive buddy's wife challenging him when the submissive buddy himself doesn't, as that would mean S isn't as big and bad and awesome as he thinks he is. So, F should be on guard for things like this, finding ways to assure S that they will still be friends even though he is getting married and that he should stop putting you down and make an effort to get along. F will have to agree to do this on his own and it will be hard, but if he does firmly establish this boundary with S, it will be easier for you and F to have a successful relationship.

This is kind of like the high school BFF situation in which the one girl is threatened by the other girl's boyfriend because she thinks she's getting replaced. F has to reassure his friend S that he isn't getting dumped and that if the friendship is going to continue, he will have to learn to like you (F has to stick up for you). S will not stop putting you down as long as F is silent and not objecting. In a way, that is a test that S is presenting to F: "How much do you value this girl? Are you willing to fight for her and defend her? If so, then she's worth your time, and I'll relinquish my primacy in your life to her." When F defends you, he affirms your value to S and the balance shifts.

The question is whether or not you want to get involved in this kind of dynamic at all. It sounds like S and F are close, like brothers, and that S is possessive of F. F needs to learn how to get a backbone. But, before you dump him unilaterally, give him a chance to man up. Let him know the problem. If he cares enough and is strong enough, he will stand up for you. If he doesn't, then you can walk away knowing that you've done your best to work out a problem you're having. F is probably afraid to upset the balance and hoping it will just fall into place, but you have a chance here to take charge and communicate with F -- and in the process, learn a valuable lesson about how to deal with big conflicts of the nature that will arise in your marriage. You've seen an ugly side of him; everyone has at least one...so it's time to see how it will go if you have to deal with it.

How often will you and F be around S, if you get married? Do you have to hang out with him all the time or can you opt out if you want?

If you continue the relationship, make sure you express your concern to F that he protect your relationship from S by standing up for you consistently and without exception. If you continue your relationship with F, you should also make sure that you talk to him about boundaries and expectations. And, if you decide to stay with F, instead of punishing him for S's behavior, try and have a talk with S. Your hatred of S is dripping in this post, so I'm sure a guy like this (who is probably deeply insecure, despite the bravado), can sense your disapproval and is reacting to it substantially. You can quell it little without coddling him or enabling him or conceding to him, by appealing to him with a little bit of candor and kindness and a little less snark than the two cents comment (it was rude; so was S's projection of things, but S's projection ultimately recognized the primacy of your relationship with F and its superiority in the future, as it expressed a sense of bitterness at the loss of him, while your comment just trashed all of S's opinions without even refuting the painful truth that he was essentially raising in his crude joke that he is losing F to you). Just let him know that even if you don't see eye to eye on everything, you're not going to try to steal F away entirely or poison their friendship, even though it will naturally change after he marries you, and that you expect him (S) not to try to poison F against you, too -- a truce of sorts.

Don't run away from your battle. Fight it and see what happens. Either you and F and S all grow from this, or you discover that F isn't who you thought he was, after all. But if you just bolt without trying to talk to him, your actions are as cowardly as F's refusal to address the problem with S (I'm sorry if you don't like that; it's not an insult, just how I see it).

Anyway, I hope things work out for you. Just because F has a weird relationship with his best friend doesn't mean that he's weak, just that he's compassionate enough not to break the fragile ego of his buddy by calling BS on his bravado. Now, if F has a problem standing up for himself or for you in ALL aspects of his life, then you really need to have a talk with him about the problem and then reconsider whether it's something you can cope with long-term as he does or doesn't get over that timidness.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

I just read a bit further in the thread. Maybe you are both too young and not ready as a couple for marriage? F is 24 and that's young for a guy and he sounds very immature. You've only been together for two years. I think that if you tried talking to him and explaining why you wanted out of the relationship, you'd see if he was likely to change. However, it sounds like this isn't an isolated incident and this behavior happens a lot. You do sound concerned. If you think about working things out with F, at least postpone any wedding plans until the issue of his backbone has been resolved. At the same time, maybe F needs the wake up call that he's going to lose his woman if he keeps being his buddy's beta and maybe by breaking up with him and giving him the reason, you can see if he is willing to fight for you, change a bit, and come back to you a better partner; the break-up could be the wake-up call he needs to grow up. This is definitely an interesting problem. I wish you luck OP.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

OrangeCrush said:


> I ended it with F. I feel like I 'should' be more upset, but honestly right now I mostly just feel relief.
> 
> The last time he called, I finally answered and he asked if we could talk. I met him at his house bc I had some of my things there. When I got there, I thought maybe he was going to apologize for last weekend, but instead, what he wanted to talk to me about was "what would you think about having an open relationship? because I really love you and don't want to lose you, but I also wonder if maybe there's someone else out there and I think I need to date other people too. But I don't want to lose you."


Oh, good grief! What a creep!! I now wish I'd read even further before posting. This is just vile!

Good for you that you broke up with F! 

And, good for you that your instincts are pointing you in the direction you want to be traveling!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Great job..


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## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

Good for you that you ended it! Time to focus on YOU and find someone who complements you!

Reminds me a lot of my ex-bf. His friends used to make fun of my ethnicity because I was Asian and they were White. Constantly. And when I told my ex-boyfriend that it offends me and to tell them to stop, he just laughed and told me to suck it up because they were just joking. Granted they weren't as bad as your (now ex) F's friend, but it still felt good to dump him (one of the many reasons!) and be done with it. 

My friend also had a similar issue with her fiance's best friend. He always had short-term relationships because he couldn't stay faithful. Her fiance's friend made fun of her in front of him, telling him once to "keep your woman on a leash". Needless to say, she got pissed and told him to drop his friend. Her fiance realized that his relationship was more important to him, so he did.

A 24-year-old guy is definitely WAY too young to be married (although I know there are exceptions). I couldn't figure out if your ex-F was really just spineless or he just didn't care about how you felt. I feel like at that age, especially these days, your friends are the most important thing in the world.

Also agree that a real man has his own set of morals and sticks to them, no matter who tries to sway him.

Best of luck to you and in your future decisions!


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