# freaked out with strong gut feeling



## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

Hi there this post is because back in january i was was hit with with a very strong gut feeling that something was not right with my wife of 21 years........ what set it off was so simple. we have have never told each other what each of us could do or where we could go...... but when her hard drinking friend called to invite her to miami for a jimmy buffet concert i freaked out even though she has been down there to see her friend before.......my wife said this, rita called and wants me to come down for the jimmy buffet concrete she just broke up with her boyfriend....its that last statement that set my sixth sense off...she just had too much excitement in her eyes when she said it... so anyway i freaked out and went crazy and went through all her stuff and began asking her about all the weird things from our past that i had never said anything about...so my poor wife gets hammered with 20 years worth of what about this and what about that etc....there is no proof of anything....but this feeling is persisting primarily because of her responses and weird answers to the same questions....now understand i have been in investigative mode since january ( not so much now)...but she says stupid stuff like when i ask her if she ever made out with anybody when shes out with her girlfriends...she says not in this county then i ask what kind of answer is that she says not in florida....she said the same thing at the couselors office.... then twice out of blue in midst of investigating she tells me how smart i am that im scary smart. Why would she say this when she knows im trying to put things together? then one night in the middle of sex she says i like your cum the best she said something similiar years ago... why would she say this knowing my mental state....then im asking her about one of my friends grilling her really and she says aww maybe it was just heavy flirting then when im talking to this same friend he use the the same term maybe it just heavy flirting.... i think they spent time together when i wasnt around what level it rises ill never know.....but this friend has continued to be my friend calling me inviting me and my wife to meet him at an art show...if he had sex with with my wife would he be calling me inviting the both of us to meet him at an art show....my insticts say its possible that he knows something maybe concerning one of his friends.....there are none of the traditional signs of cheating...and our sex sex life has always been great.........but there is much more concerning this and im convinced that my bell went off for a reason....some female input would be greatly appreciated ........
thankyou mickey1


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

mickey1 said:


> Hi there this post is because back in january i was was hit with with a very strong gut feeling that something was not right with my wife of 21 years........ what set it off was so simple. we have have never told each other what each of us could do or where we could go...... but when her hard drinking friend called to invite her to miami for a jimmy buffet concert i freaked out even though she has been down there to see her friend before.......my wife said this, rita called and wants me to come down for the jimmy buffet concrete she just broke up with her boyfriend....its that last statement that set my sixth sense off...she just had too much excitement in her eyes when she said it... so anyway i freaked out and went crazy and went through all her stuff and began asking her about all the weird things from our past that i had never said anything about...so my poor wife gets hammered with 20 years worth of what about this and what about that etc....there is no proof of anything....but this feeling is persisting primarily because of her responses and weird answers to the same questions....now understand i have been in investigative mode since january ( not so much now)...but she says stupid stuff like when i ask her if she ever made out with anybody when shes out with her girlfriends...she says not in this county then i ask what kind of answer is that she says not in florida....she said the same thing at the couselors office.... then twice out of blue in midst of investigating she tells me how smart i am that im scary smart. Why would she say this when she knows im trying to put things together? then one night in the middle of sex she says i like your cum the best she said something similiar years ago... why would she say this knowing my mental state....then im asking her about one of my friends grilling her really and she says aww maybe it was just heavy flirting then when im talking to this same friend he use the the same term maybe it just heavy flirting.... i think they spent time together when i wasnt around what level it rises ill never know.....but this friend has continued to be my friend calling me inviting me and my wife to meet him at an art show...if he had sex with with my wife would he be calling me inviting the both of us to meet him at an art show....my insticts say its possible that he knows something maybe concerning one of his friends.....there are none of the traditional signs of cheating...and our sex sex life has always been great.........but there is much more concerning this and im convinced that my bell went off for a reason....some female input would be greatly appreciated ........
> thankyou mickey1


Trust your gut and beware of the friend.

I have read that befriending the spouse of a targeted potential affair partner is a tactic to gain trust and access to the spouse that the person is hoping to cheat with.

I have personally known people who have experienced this.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Actually it would be perfectly possible for someone to really like a person, yet to still have an affair with their wife or husband. How?

"Yep. Here's a couple of nice compartments! One for my lover, the other for their spouse!"

Sometimes it is is a power thing, other times it is as I say, compartmentalising.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

You have an... interesting wife. I cannot say for sure what's going on with her and your friend, but some of her statements are very peculiar, and disturbing. (Sorry to say).

If my partner told me she loved my cum most during intercourse, you can rest assured I would have stopped and _asked_ her what she meant by that. I mean, who is she comparing to? Lovers from twenty years in the past? She must have the memory of an elephant. It may be that she was playing around and teasing you, but if she knew you were stressing about a possible affair, this would be the *wrong* thing to joke about. Likewise, her answer to the "making out with another person" question sounds like a vague and awkwardly-phrased admission. Maybe I'm reading too much into your statements, but I get the feeling that your wife has some very loose boundaries.

At the same time, your first post reads like you are under extreme stress. I don't doubt that the situation is stressful, but I'd urge you to be calm and cool about this. You can't uncover anything if you're making yourself sick with worry.

Now, are you and your wife transparent? Can you check her phone, emails, skype account, etc. whenever you want? Or does she keep these private? It sounds like she complied with you when you went all "Spanish Inquisition" on her earlier, but I don't know the extent to which she cooperated with you.

In any case, I agree with Sara8 and MattMatt- trust your gut. There's more than enough weirdness in her behavior to warrant suspicion, I think. She could easily be living two lives without you're knowing, sorry to say.

Be vigilant. Don't confront, but watch her closely, and make note of thing odd she says, or peculiar outings that don't include you. If she is having an affair (affairs?) then she may very well go underground you confront her without appropriate evidence.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If you made such remarks to your wife do you think she would be so accepting as you have been? Clearly there is something terribly wrong here.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

If you ever want the truth, you need to stop confronitng/questioning and start sleuthing, clandestinely.
You need to play dumb and act as if you are perfectly fine. Then, investigate like crazy.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> like when i ask her if she ever made out with anybody when shes out with her girlfriends...she says not in this county then i ask what kind of answer is that she says not in florida


Dude......


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Never waste your time asking a liar if they are lying.

If you think something is up, go silent about it and investigate for real. Voice Activated Recorders in cars, check emails/texts, and if she is going away for playtime a PI at the location she is going to.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gut feeling -- check

Very questionable answers -- check

Toxic friends -- most likely

Questionable longs distance GNOs -- sounds like it

Good Boundaries -- Not at all. Yes you are realizing that you really have no boundaries in place. Just those on your wifes part as to how she is feeling at the moment. She goes on trips, hangs out with a single friend and drinks. Sounds like she pretty much likes the single life while you are isolated.

Instigation, Isolation and Escalation.

You guys need to do His Needs her Needs and the boundary settings. This will help find out where her head is at while you do some further snooping. Her answers about boundaries are going to scare the heck out of you but this needs to be done.

Now what I don't get is that you did not pursue her comment about the county. I would have said so you have, just not here? I would have insisted on a direct answer.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Mickey---If you can comfortably afford it---let your wife go to the jimmy buffet concert---but you hire a P I, and have her followed the minute she hits Miami---If you can't afford it---then you probably ought to say no---

Hard drinking friend, is gonna want to boogie, and she wants your wife, as a companion for PUA.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

jnj express said:


> Hey Mickey---If you can comfortably afford it---let your wife go to the jimmy buffet concert---but you hire a P I, and have her followed the minute she hits Miami---If you can't afford it---then you probably ought to say no---
> 
> Hard drinking friend, is gonna want to boogie, and she wants your wife, as a companion for PUA.


Yes, they are each others wingwoman.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jibril said:


> She must have the memory of an elephant. It may be that she was


My wife has a memory like this! Don't all women?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What are you doing to investigate what she is up to?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If she goes to Florida, maybe it would be best to tell her you both need STD testing. She'll ask you what you have done whilst she was away, you can say, "why, nothing. Just like you. So there'll be no problem with the tests, right?"


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Unfortunately you are pretty well screwed without a smoking gun. If someone is having ongoing affairs, chances are they will eventually be caught. However, occasional 'playing around' is much more difficult to catch. If she is smart and discreet about it and only does it out of town with this trusted friend (or other opportunistic situations), there is not much a man can do. Most guys on the prowl will happily screw our women giving no thought to who they are and have no interest in trying to find them afterwards or otherwise create a trail. Although unsafe sex is rampant in all situations, I believe that there is a better chance that they will use protection if it's casual sex with a stranger so little chance of an STD smoking gun. It can happen very fast and leave no trail that you can 'investigate' without taking very extreme measures like hiring someone to trail her.

Friends will always lie for friends and eve if she did talk, your wife can always deny, deny, deny and there is nothing you can do about it.

Many times over the years I've heard things that don't add up and near confessions but there is nothing that can be done in the face of denial. And when strong evidence was found (e.g. describing strong desire for a guy to a friend of hers), only the minimum was disclosed - "yeah i wanted him but never acted on it and never let him know".

Good luck.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

My husband and I take trips without each other. I see my friend in California that I met online at a parenting forum for a 3-4 night stay. He goes hunting/salmon fishing in Alaska for 10 nights. Never once have we questioned or accused each other of cheating.

I'm actually planning a trip to see my friend soon. Since I'm disabled with a neck injury, it is tough for me to go. It's quite an experience to travel alone, but well worth it. We have so many free flights, so cost is not an issue. Our points keep on racking up we have 6-8 full round frequent flyer tickets depending where we go. I'll be paying for the full nights hotel since my friend is a single parent. Last time we stayed on the Queen Mary. 

Actually, my husband is coming home today from a fishing trip in the Boundary Waters Canoe area, he left Friday. He actually gets phone reception and calls me every night. These trips without me are getting harder for him.

You don't have any hard facts that she is cheating. If your so worried, like the poster said above, hire a private investigator. Let her go and have fun. My best friend I met online is single, but she also is a parent and making it on her own. We do fun things when together and have the same interests, except this year will be a more relaxed vacation, maybe on the beach. I'm all for vacations with and without the family. If you don't have a marriage built on trust, you don't have a good marriage and have many things to work out. Let her go and have fun. The excitement is based on seeing her friend and seeing a band she loves. I show excitement too! It's like a kid going to Disney World.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes, they are each others wingwoman.


I KNEW someone was going to beat me to it. And I should have known it would be E3K.

No freakin' WAY she goes to Florida to party with her newly single, hard-drinking toxic friend to a Jimmy Buffet concert. I hate Buffet, but my understanding it is mostly men who go to his concerts. The toxic friend has some hard partying planned for her and your wife with the boys. 

GUARANTEED she'll never be able to say "well, not in Florida" again. Not while looking you straight in the eye anyhow.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> My husband and I take trips without each other. I see my friend in California that I met online at a parenting forum for a 3-4 night stay. He goes hunting/salmon fishing in Alaska for 10 nights. Never once have we questioned or accused each other of cheating.
> 
> I'm actually planning a trip to see my friend soon. Since I'm disabled with a neck injury, it is tough for me to go. It's quite an experience to travel alone, but well worth it. We have so many free flights, so cost is not an issue. Our points keep on racking up we have 6-8 full round frequent flyer tickets depending where we go. I'll be paying for the full nights hotel since my friend is a single parent. Last time we stayed on the Queen Mary.
> 
> ...


I'm sure he appreciates your input. But the situation you describe is so polar opposite to what he is facing, that this description of what a wholesome vacation w/o your spouse SHOULD BE LIKE will make him run for the hills. It should anyhow.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

MrK said:


> I'm sure he appreciates your input. But the situation you describe is so polar opposite to what he is facing, that this description of what a wholesome vacation w/o your spouse SHOULD BE LIKE will make him run for the hills. It should anyhow.


Sadly, I have to agree.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

thank you for your replies...........this has been the mental challenge of my life. My wife is the nicest, sweetest, most goodhearted, good mom, heart of gold person you could meet so the thought of her having some sort of double life is almost unbelievable but i have thought it. her email and phone etc is all open to me until i tried to hack into her bank account she put a new password on her phone but i guessed it so i have it. there are just a couple of questionable texts on it where she is telling a parent of one of her kindergartners that she has some funny stories for him over a beer and he was inviting her for beers too. i think she got emotionally involved with this person because his wife died while she had the kid as a student there are numerous texts between them mostly school related but there is a shared sex joke and the invitations for happy hour. when i asked her about him during one of my grilling sessions she just burst into tears and left the room she did the same thing at the counselors office too when i said his name she just burst into tears i dont know if there is something or if she is just emotional over the death of the mom... . as i said before there is no proof or major signs of an affair, no change in hours, no change in wardrobe, she has never even acted guilty.........the statements about boundries are correct....i quit drinking in 1998 but my wife has continued to do so. she loves live music and dancing but i hate it so i dont go... so when she goes, she goes with mutual friends or one of her friends from work or even my little sister who lied to me about the two of them going backstage at a concert. i caught my wife in a lie about it too.....after a concert with my little sister she told me they went backstage then a few months later she was going to another concert i told her not to go backstage she said i have never been backstage i said well you told me you and my sister went backstage at such and such then she said i have only been backstage once....then during a recent heart to heart she told that they gave a couple of the band members a ride back to thier hotel and went up to the room. would a wife cheat with your little sister there? she said weird stuff about this too.....she said one of the guys in the band was older and he had gray hair and she liked him and it was 2007 and she wasnt sure about our marriage.....if i talk to my sister she will be right on the phone to my wife.....she lied about having phone numbers too because i checked her ticket stubs and there were phone numbers (california, what good is that if you live if Florida?) on them i asked her if she talked to anyone from that night or had phone numbers she said no but she did.......another weird thing she did and she told me this.... is that she called this number since this has been going on....why the hell would call a number from five years ago? especially if nothing happened.....again would a wife disappear to another room with your little sister there? another weird thing is that about this same time she attacks me with oral sex and does it in such a way that she has never done before to the extent that i noticed it. then about five six seconds into it she just stops, pulls away, has a thought and goes back to the old way. i remember thinking at the time damn thats how she did it to someone else....when i asked her about it during this she said it was because she had a cold sore ive never seen one on her and why continue if you have cold sore....... ? also in 2007 she was at house of blues in orlando 10 times its on her statements two times with my daughter eight times with who knows. she has always told me that she was going with so and so or so and so but who knows........sometimes i think that she has been out many times telling me she is going with a friend but really has gone by herself........at concerts she loves to dance. im thinking she goes right down front and dances and makes goo goo eyes with the band in the hopes of getting backstage.......she says she doesnt have a thing for musicians but she does. ive been married to her 21 years so i know. when she dances its almost like statement dancing.... look how cool i am. i can dance without stopping hopping up and down for the whole show, hooting and hollering even when im with her she does this acts like a teenager in this regard she is 45.......this concert thing is just one of many instaces i am concerned about........in the interest of full disclore i have not been been the greatest husband...grumpy, busy , emotionally aloof etc...and she has self esteem issues (better now) and some daddy issues because her parents were divorced when she was ten so her dad moved out of the house then two years later he moved out of the state. they have a good relationship now but when your dad leaves you twice at 10 and 12 cant be good and at least twice during some tearful heart to hearts it always ends up on her dad.......also i confessed to cheating on her 3 times all way back when i was still drinking all drunken hook ups..... which is why i know what goes on at the bar . if i hadnt stopped drinking id be divorced or dead.... maybe both.......holy crap it will take a year to tell this whole story.....im going to end this post with a question.........when i ask my wife questions , serious questions she laughs or giggles before answering....eg the other night i was thinking too much so i got up from the table and went outside she came out to check on me and asked me what was wrong i asked her again about my friend mentioned in my first post and she laughs and says nothing happened........i think she has long talks with guys she meets while walking the beach the other night she was way overdue for the shortwalk so i went over.... just as she was coming over the walk i asked damn what took so long are you down there talking somebody she does that nervous little laugh and says nooo......this small laugh is making me crazy.......if she is talking to someone electronically its with something i dont know about like a private facebook account and there is one with her name but no picture. she says its not hers but before all this started she had me search facebook for her name and this same account came up but no way to to tell if its hers......she took upon herself to go to counseling she went three times alone before i went......does taking it upon yourself to go to counseling mean anything?? plus the stupid counselor is putting all of this off on me........but my bell got rung for a reason.........im finally arrived somewhat naturally at the 180 point.......so in sum there is no proof just twenty years of accumulated strangeness that i never said anything about until now.........


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I'm all for vacations with and without the family. If you don't have a marriage built on trust, you don't have a good marriage and have many things to work out. Let her go and have fun. The excitement is based on seeing her friend and seeing a band she loves. I show excitement too! It's like a kid going to Disney World.


I used to feel this way. 

I am a recently betrayed spouse and now I regret allowing such trips. They raise so many doubts now that my husband was caught cheating. 

He, too, called me every night. He always said he was with a friend. Ironically that wasn't a lie. 
He was with a friend, just not a guy friend. 

In any case, he used those trips to boff his lover. He used boy's nights out, too.

I thought it was strange when one of his friends was insisting to me that the guys did not get together often enough. I was thinking what do you mean? You guys are getting together for boy's night out once a week?

They weren't. Boy's night out for my husband was a date with his lover? I can't believe I was so trusting and naive that I actually missed that clue.

I read a study that showed that suspicious, less trusting spouses are far less likely to be cheated on.

I also read that no one should ever trust a spouse 100 percent. 

In addition, I read that one guy told his wife he cheated because she made it in his own words: "so darn easy".


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

mickey1 said:


> My wife is the nicest, sweetest, most goodhearted, good mom, heart of gold person you could meet so the thought of her having some sort of double life is almost unbelievable but i have thought it. .


I have an acquaintance whose husband cheated while her brother was with him. So the sister thing means nothing. 

As for being the nicest sweetest, heart of gold person, yadda yadda yadda. 

This is what I thought of my husband. He likes to see himself that way, too, and others are always saying what a nice guy he is. 

Still, he cheats on his wife, lies about secret phones, computers, bank accounts, trips, credit cards, etc., so he is not so nice. 

I used to think he was so much nicer than I because he never shows anger at other people and he is even nice to people he claims to dislike. 

Me, I am the type of person that can't hide my emotions. If I am angry you know it. If I dislike someone I can NOT socialize with them. 

I used to think my husband was a better person than I because he could dislike someone and act nice around them. Now I realize he is just a phony. 

The good thing is I now realize that just because I am an open book and not a phony doesn't mean my husband is a better person. It means I am the better person because I don't try to deceive people into believing I like them, when I don't.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

yes sara8 thats my daughters name by the way spelled the same.......... its important that we trust people in life the problem is that people are untrustworthy. its just life. we live in a small town so if there were an affair seems that something would drop.....if she is cheating she is doing it opportunistically......and if she is not sexually cheating then she is doing something else that is giving off the same signals like having long conversations with men or flirting and teasing i dont know probably never will... the only way for me to investigate would be to gps the car.....


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

mickey1 said:


> she put a new password on her phone but i guessed it so i have it. there are just a couple of questionable texts on it where she is telling a parent of one of her kindergartners that she has some funny stories for him over a beer and he was inviting her for beers too. i think she got emotionally involved with this person because his wife died while she had the kid as a student there are numerous texts between them mostly school related but there is a shared sex joke and the invitations for happy hour. when i asked her about him during one of my grilling sessions she just burst into tears and left the room she did the same thing at the counselors office too when i said his name she just burst into tears i dont know if there is something or if she is just emotional over the death of the mom...


This does sound like it has the hallmarks of an emotional affair. Confiding in him, inappropriate discussion of sex, and using a password perhaps to hide this (or other things) from you. Bursting into tears and completely unable to speak about it at all? yes it could be emotionally linked to her mom but it sounds like she doesn't even try to defend or explain the relationship. Red flags.



> then during a recent heart to heart she told that they gave a couple of the band members a ride back to thier hotel and went up to the room. would a wife cheat with your little sister there? she said weird stuff about this too.....she said one of the guys in the band was older and he had gray hair and she liked him and it was 2007 and she wasnt sure about our marriage.....if i talk to my sister she will be right on the phone to my wife.....she lied about having phone numbers too because i checked her ticket stubs and there were phone numbers (california, what good is that if you live if Florida?) on them i asked her if she talked to anyone from that night or had phone numbers she said no but she did.......another weird thing she did and she told me this.... is that she called this number since this has been going on....why the hell would call a number from five years ago? especially if nothing happened.....again would a wife disappear to another room with your little sister there?


You know why you don't want her to go backstage. You know what band members do with the women they meet backstage and take back to their hotel rooms. And she is still apparently in contact with someone from that band after all this time? Huge red flags



> another weird thing is that about this same time she attacks me with oral sex and does it in such a way that she has never done before to the extent that i noticed it. then about five six seconds into it she just stops, pulls away, has a thought and goes back to the old way. i remember thinking at the time damn thats how she did it to someone else....when i asked her about it during this she said it was because she had a cold sore ive never seen one on her and why continue if you have cold sore....... ?


 Another red flag.

And yes, constantly finding strange men with whom to have long conversations with is another red flag. There's friendliness, and then there's bottomless neediness that is fulfilled through inappropriate behavior that tests or breaks marital boundaries. This alone is a serious issue that needs addressing, let alone everything else.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

She and your little sister took drove band members to their hotel rooms and went up to their rooms to visit?.....What is wrong with this picture? Married women do not do these things.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I think that she does regularyly cheat on you. It may or may not be intercourse, but she is often unfaithful to you.

Inappropriate behavior -- check. The problem here is that you enable it. The fact this part of her life you choose to not be part of is a big mistake. Why it is ok for your wife to go out drinking AND dancing without you is beyond me. I would go for the sake of my marriage not just to c0ckblock but to actually enjoy time with my wife. Not caring enough to go gives her the green light to be less than completely monogamous. The fact that you have cheated has in her mind given her a free pass I am afraid.

Unfaithfulness -- While you are ok with her dancing and drinking without you, you are not ok with her other activities. She has blatantly lied to you. That is being unfaithful. Lying period is a deal breaker for me. Add to this what the lying is about and you have all the information you really need. Yes she has done things that would upset you. There is little doubt that this has been at least making out and being felt up with some possible heavy petting. She may have very well had oral sex with other men. Sounds like it. She very possibly has had intercourse with other men. 

Her comment about not feeling good about the marriage and liking this guy with gray hair she brought back to the room is pretty much a confession. I think this alone is a deal breaker no matter what she actually did, but there is little doubt here. This is just my thinking on the matter.

Where are you boundaries. What is a smoking gun to you? What activities are you not ok with? Again, some folks are believers in a fairly rigid monogamy. Other folks live in the contiuum between this and an open marriage. This can be essentially dating other people with "trust" that they do not have sex or that the spouse just never finds out. Not sure where your boundaries are here.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I can't help you except to say that your radar is spot-on. She likes to party with the boys. She likes it A LOT. And she does it a lot more than you've caught her doing it. And there's no way someone that likes to party so much with the boys stops at flirting and conversation. How many times has she gone partying without you?

NO FREAKING WAY does she go to Florida. NO WAY. That is a hard line in the sand deal breaker. From your recent description, there is going to be A LOT of face time with strange men. A LOT of drinking, dancing and flirting. THAT'S WHY SHE'S GOING! If she can't enjoy being married to you without all of these hookups with strange men (that's what they are, sorry to be so blunt), you need to walk. Consequences be damned.

You want proof? Say you're sorry for accusing her and beg her to go to make you feel not so bad about it. Have a PI get some cell phone footage. I can GUARANTEE you it will pay for itself. I can GUARANTEE he will get some serious footage. 

Good luck stopping her though. This trip is PRIME TIME for a woman who likes to party with strange men in a drinking, partying crowd. I'll bet she's even gotten horny thinking about this trip. And it's an overnight trip, right? She'll get to bed at about 9:00 the next morning. Wait. Scratch that. She'll get to HER bed then. It is going to be one powerful weekend for her. I may fly down and look for her myself.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

there is much more........of this type of behavior....and strange happenings....ie, one day several years were were checking out of a local restaurant one we frequent so the owner knows us or at least recognizes us..on this particular day my wife and i were paying at the register and the mid thirties owner was behind the register......he was sooo nervous he couldnt contain himself he was coughing and clearing his throat repeatedly he was so nervous he was getting ready to come out of his skin.....it was over the top nervous no eye contact no thanks for coming in.. nothing........i never said anything about it until recently. when i asked her about it she said she didnt know why he was so nervous and that it didnt have anything to with her... i continued to grill her about this and she said she had never seen him outside of that building so i asked her if she had spent time alone with him in the restaurant she said no.. i asked her did you go in the office with him or maybe you filled out an application she said i dont know if i filled out an application or not........then a few weeks later we were back in there he didnt even look at us when he brought us the menus........would a wife take her husband back to the scene knowing full well we would see each other.......??? she still takes our daughter there......and even (she told me) pointed him out to our daughter and told her that daddy thinks i had something to do with that guy........then she said he didnt even look at her........a similar thing happened one night when me, my wife and my little sister were coming out of a local bar...as we were leaving this guy was standing there waiting for her to walk by.... he looks straight at her and says hows it going not in a this is the first time i saw you way but in a remember me way....again if my wife had something to do with this guy would she take me back to the same bar? knowing that its possible he may be there??? i thought i saw this guy just the other day so i said to my wife i saw your boyfriend.... she did that little nervous laugh and said where? ......would taking your husband back to the scenes be abuse especially when she knows for sure that i will see the restaurant guy and possibly see the guy from the bar? and i just read the affection part of "his needs her needs" thats me to a t lots of sex.... no affection. what a nightmare.....how can you divorce with no proof??? i like being married she likes being married...im awakening to the fact that she has been getting her affection elsewhere when all she probably ever wanted was to get it from me.......and to make matters worse she is a gorgeous petite brunette with a killer smile...so you know who to look for mrk.....


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

mickey1 said:


> on this particular day my wife and i were paying at the register and the mid thirties owner was behind the register......he was sooo nervous he couldnt contain himself he was coughing and clearing his throat repeatedly he was so nervous he was getting ready to come out of his skin.....it was over the top nervous no eye contact no thanks for coming in.. nothing........i never said anything about it until recently.


Do you think it is possible that you are/were being paranoid? I don't mean that in a nasty way, I have been there myself. 

That bit about the restaurant owner seems a bit over the top to me. If I was in the same situation I would assume that he was ripping me off, or had just had a call from the cops or something, how do you figure nervous guy = he is banging my wife? Am I missing something? Was something else happening?

Another thing, could you break your posts up into paragraphs, they are tough to read.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

mickey1 said:


> there is much more........of this type of bon this particular day my wife and i were paying at the register and the mid thirties owner was behind the register......he was sooo nervous he couldnt contain himself he was coughing and clearing his throat repeatedly he was so nervous he was getting ready to come out of his skin.....it was over the top nervous no eye contact no thanks for coming in..


Yes, sounds odd. I haven't had an OW do this to me, but I have had this with people who knew of the affair and saw me with him after seeing him and the OW together frequently

It was the same exact behavior. 

Also, twice after DDay, I met people my husband knew who never met me. 

I met them when my husband was not there and when I introduced myself as his wife, They both looked at me surprised and said I thought you were taller and heavier and did you dye your hair?

The OW was taller and heavier dyed her hair.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> Do you think it is possible that you are/were being paranoid? I don't mean that in a nasty way, I have been there myself.
> 
> That bit about the restaurant owner seems a bit over the top to me. If I was in the same situation I would assume that he was ripping me off, or had just had a call from the cops or something, how do you figure nervous guy = he is banging my wife? Am I missing something? Was something else happening?
> 
> Another thing, could you break your posts up into paragraphs, they are tough to read.


Paragraphs would help a bunch. I agree I have no idea what that restaurant thing is about. 

In the bar the guy htting on her ... could mean he knows her or it could mean he was just hitting on her. Whether she is putting out the vibe in a way that invites being hit on who knows. if she is good looking that is all it would take.

I think you not being a bigger part of her life is a huge issue. She is out looking for her needs to be met from other men.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

With all that seems to go on with her on her own,do you both actually spend some good quality time together in maintaining and building a strong relationship? It can be a slipping down life if we don't put in the effort.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TBT said:


> With all that seems to go on with her on her own,do you both actually spend some good quality time together in maintaining and building a strong relationship? It can be a slipping down life if we don't put in the effort.


Again I have no idea why it is acceptable to you for her to be travelling to hangout with a single woman and act as her wingwoman in a single lifestyle. The huge redflag is her lying along with the activities you know about. Why don't you go with her on the trip?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

mickey1 said:


> t.....how can you divorce with no proof???


Someone started a thread a long time ago about clubbing wives and "legitimate" infidelity. "It's just dancing. Give me a break". It was spot on. You stop a woman from this behavior and you are a controlling jerk. 

Let her go to FL. Give her no more reason to think you don't trust her. Hire a PI. Then share the video with the world. Do it for yourself and all of the other husbands who fall for the "we're just dancing in our man-free bubble" line. Once you get that video, all of her other actions will come into clear focus. It WILL be expensive. But how much of your health have you lost worrying about this crap. You need it. Hire a PI. Show the video to the world.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Let me start by saying this---she is way out of bounds, even talking to parents of her students, about going and drinking beer/alcohol with them---you better believe she has a morals clause in her teaching contract---so if she likes her job, that kind of talk needs to stop----also she should not be socializing with her students parents at all----if they are her students, their parents get treated in a business like matter, and that is it ---nothing more----anything else, is way out of bounds!!!!!!

You and her need to do some talking, about your mge---

---I am not, in your situation, not there, so I can't read faces, body language---so I won't comment on the goings on with your wife, around town, when you grill her, etc. ---but I will tell you this---your mge, has a big split in it---your wife is playing the singles script to the hilt---and you are playing the way to serious married script

You know she needs to go out and have fun---why do you not go with her, instead you allow her to go herself----of course there is a major possibility, she is gonna get into trouble, and you are allowing all of it

You knew what she was like when you married her, you knew what she liked/wanted to do---and you knew what you liked/wanted to do---you guys are 180 degrees apart in your lifestyles---WHY DID YOU GET MARRIED

I can't say for sure she is cheating, or doing anything, and I am sure if we asked her to defend herself, we would get very different accounts of happenings, than what you are giving----but I do know this---if you are to stay in this mge., you had better start giving your wife some attention socially---she does have a right to do things she likes to do, and YOU HER H. SHOULD ACCOMPANY HER.----That is what mge., is all about IS IT NOT??????


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

yes our quality time together certainly needs improvement. let me say that she doesnt go out all that often its just that i have been asking her about twenty years of activity so it seems like a lot.
but as i think back she has been out bunches of times without me. i hate going to the bars. i dont drink and im married and bars are for drinking and trying to get laid. maybe women view this differently.
one of the big problems is that she lies about stupid small stuff... ie, when i ask her if when she is out with her girlfriends does anyone try to pick up on you or try to buy you drinks or try to get you to go outside. she always says no but that violates the rules of the bar....so why lie about it. especially when one of her girlfriends sent her a text pretty much congratulating her on all the attention they were attracting. i made her read it to the counselor. its these little lies that make it hard to believe anything she tells me.
ive never told her what she could or couldnt do. i do a little bit of acting and modeling and some standup and she has never told me i couldnt do these things which im sure she stresses about actresses and models and being in comedy clubs.
but i dont drink and alcohol changes everything. thats why i dont go to the bars with her. I hate it. I hate playing alpha male always having to defend what i have. i have mine you get yours.. another reason i dont like to go out with her is because she seems to play goo goo eyes with people and then pretends she is not doing it. the last time i took her to a comedy show before the show started a certain song came on and she starts doing the dirty dancing to me dropping to the floor and all but why would a 45 year old married women do this even to her husband? then she plays goo goo eyes and is checking out the room to see who looking at her. i hate taking my beautiful to clubs concerts etc. 
Here is another example . a few months ago we were at the bar eating dinner with a group of friends some i hadnt seen for years. one of my friends from back in the day came up to her, reached across the table and introduced himself to her.....nothing unusual about that except he didnt look at me he didnt say hi to me he didnt acknowledge me in any way he just introduced himself to her and walked away. 
There can only be two possible reasons for this. he has either heard something in the community or they played goo goo eyes with each other to the extent that hes thinking this chick wants to meet me. i would never do that. I would never walk up to friends wife and introduce myself to her without first acknowleging him. this is why i hate taking her to bars and clubs and concerts. 
for this past st pattys day we went with my mom and stepfather to celebrate. all of us are sitting at a table and after a couple of beers shes banging her cup on the table and dancing in her seat all the while looking around the room to see who is noticing.
and yes our quality time needs improvement. she has been mentioning a movie she would like to see. even the counselor told her that the bars were out.
i do think however that there is something between her and one of my friends. I say this because for a stretch of several weeks she seemed to be scared that i was going to find something out. this is based on some of the things she was saying to me. so if she is scared that im going to find something out that means someone i know knows something.
when i ask her about a particular friend she gets real nervous. one day i kept asking her over and over again she keeps saying no then she finally says, this where this marraige ends...i wasnt sure if she meant if i didnt stop asking her or the marriage would end if she told me the truth. and this friend was weird about it when i was talking to him. he kept saying its just sex dude its just sex. you have a relationship which is more important than sex. then he said its like eating peanut butter and jelly everyday sometimes you just want something different. In short he was making light of my situation...but since then hes called to see how things are going....
would a wife ever tell the truth about something like this.? as i go forward regardless of what happens i know in my heart and in my gut that my intuition was for a reason. the most difficult thing is the inconsistentcies and wierd statement on the part of my wife and one of my friends...and if she is lying just tell a straight lie and stick to it.her answers are too wishy washy.....:scratchhead:


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

mickey1 said:


> but i dont drink and alcohol changes everything. thats why i dont go to the bars with her. I hate it. I hate playing alpha male always having to defend what i have.


This is why married people often don't spend time in the bar scene, and why many married people believe that frequenting bars without their spouse violates marital boundaries.

It has nothing to do with being the alpha male.

My husband and I do enjoy the rare bar occasion because we treat it the only way married people can or should--as a fun time TOGETHER where we pretend we're young again picking each other up and finding EACH OTHER sexy.

If this is not you, or your wife, then you do not go to bars (except if you need to work and don't drink, as you described). It may be the case that you have to lead by example and just not go to bars any more.

So what will happen if you sit down and say that partying, bars, attending concerts without you has to stop? Is she going to laugh in your face? Is she going to call you 'controlling?' You know that is just the favorite line of the manipulator. It works like a charm.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

she has never called me controlling and she knows the bars are out. and by alpha male i meant... that male animal that spends all his energy protecting his mate from all the other males.. thats what i feel like when im with her in those enviroments


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

mickey1 said:


> she has never called me controlling and she knows the bars are out. and by alpha male i meant... that male animal that spends all his energy protecting his mate from all the other males.. thats what i feel like when im with her in those enviroments


how is going backstage at concerts any different, when you aren't there? you clearly think it's awful behavior--I think we can agree it's as bad any bar scene, and sometimes much worse


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Looks like you have been living in an open marriage.

You paint a picture where you wife puts off a vibe like she is in an open marriage. You seem to pout off a vibe of being dominated and that your wife is available.

Hence why men ignore your presence. You in no way intimidate them They have zero approach anxiety. Sorry you do not wish to be Alpha. You see the flip side though. Essentially you give off a weak vibe and folks have no problem thinking you are just her cuckold. You are too ambivalent. Maybe part of why she is seeking more Alpha men. Men who would c0ckblock when needed and men who take what they want. You have been way too ambivalent.

You also let your wife play head games with you. Again no way would I let my wife get away with making such statements without them being clarified.
So even in front of you your wife is seeking out attention from other men. Imagine how she is when you are not there.

So ok, what do you want to do about it? It sounds like nothing.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

thought of something else. when i ask her about this particular friend she says aww hes a loser he doesnt even have real job do you really think i would do something with him?. then when im talking to this same friend he does the same thing he puts her down and says aww she aint all that dude. if saw her walking on the beach i wouldnt even look twice. why the put downs from both of them? and when i ask her about another friend she said awww hes short and she said the same thing about the restaurant guy aww hes short. its these conditions on her answers that are bothersome.....
when i ackowledged to her that i havent been the greatest husband she said well even if i thought that it doesnt mean that would jump in some random guys bed.... ok not a random guy but someone you know? WTF? lots of weirdness going on.:scratchhead:


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

entropy 3000 this is a very insightful observation.she even told me that she thought i didnt care about her going out. but should a wife of 21 years be told what she can do and not do?


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

entropy3000......its because i ignore her and dont pay any attention to her and i act like i would rather be somewhere else.........


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> she has never called me controlling and she knows the bars are out. and by alpha male i meant... that male animal that spends all his energy protecting his mate from all the other males.. thats what i feel like when im with her in those enviroments


But she does what she wants to do when you are not there. So the bars do not seem to be out. Going back stage at a concert, picking up some band guys and taking them back to the hotel room to play is in scope as well. So she is a band groupie. You really think these band guys are not getting any sexual favors from your wife and her friend? I mean why does a married woman do this?

You also said she likes to dance. So she goes to clubs and dances with men that try to pick her up. She likes this. This is the whole purpose of her trip.

So agian why are you not going with her?


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

confronting her to get solid answers will lead to fighting and someone moving out. maybe this is what she is counting on. but even when i did confront her directly and i have i get nothing.....she will never tell me the truth.would any wife tell thier husband that they gave oral to his friend?? i thought about that cuckhold thing previously.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> entropy3000......its because i ignore her and dont pay any attention to her and i act like i would rather be somewhere else.........


So let her go then. Let her be with a man who is willing to show her attention and not willing for her to be with other men. You seem very ambivalent about it all. 

You say you want to be married yet your actions say you do not.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

the things im speaking of happened in the past some of them way in the past......they are dredged up because my sixth sense went off when she wanted to go to miami for the concert this past january....can a husband tell a wife NO you cant go see your friend?


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

it was my little sister she was with when she went backstage. thats part of the dilema would a wife cheat with the husbands little sister there??,


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Hence why men ignore your presence. You in no way intimidate them They have zero approach anxiety. Sorry you do not wish to be Alpha. You see the flip side though. Essentially you give off a weak vibe and folks have no problem thinking you are just her cuckold. You are too ambivalent. Maybe part of why she is seeking more Alpha men. Men who would c0ckblock when needed and men who take what they want. You have been way too ambivalent


Hmmm! Interesting. Not sure it is always true. If a man is a narcissist no matter how alpha the hubby looks, the narcissist will still make a play.

In fact, if he is alpha, it might present more of a challenge to the narcissists. His ego might like the conquest even more. 

Personally, I think it's the wife that is giving off the I'm available vibe. 

When someone starts preening and puffing out their chest or batting their eyes in front of another person of the opposite sex, it gives off an I'm available vibe.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> entropy 3000 this is a very insightful observation.she even told me that she thought i didnt care about her going out. but should a wife of 21 years be told what she can do and not do?


This post makes me think you have some other agenda on this board but I will answer it anyway. You seem to be fighting the right to take a stand. Why is that?

I have been married 35 years. So yes, you need to tell your wife of 21 years that this is not acceptable. It is called boundaries. So after one is tenured in marriage it is ok to lose the boudnaries and have an open marriage? Does husband of 20+ years stop needing to be respected? Is it ok for a married woman to play with the boys as long as her hubby does not know ... for sure?

There is no age limit to this stuff. It seems that many woman start acting out at this stage in marriage. They actually want to see their husband show some nads. Many have lost so much testosterone I guess they do not know how to react to this.

BUT you say this has gone on for 20 years. This is why one has the boundary talk BEFORE you marry and then make adjutsments for the duration.

This marriage is working out ok for her frankly. She is getting hers.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

yes she did that to my friend im concerned about here at the house in front of me...then said she didnt do it........your responses have been better than anything the counselor has told me. maybe i dont care because maybe i really dont want to be married..if i confront her more about my friend ill never get the truth and someone will move out....what to do?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Hmmm! Interesting. Not sure it is always true. If a man is a narcissist no matter how alpha the hubby looks, the narcissist will still make a play.
> 
> In fact, if he is alpha, it might present more of a challenge to the narcissists. His ego might like the conquest even more.
> 
> ...


I think she puts out the vibe too, but this husband does nothing about the other guys and has yet to have a serious discussion with his wife about boundaries. Just head games. I agree the main issue is between them. She is openly trying to humliate him. But him doing nothing to intervene is basically saying go for it buddy, I can be dominated and you can take my wife if you can can't her up. To much conflict avoidance here. She probably wants him to engage and show he cares.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> it was my little sister she was with when she went backstage. thats part of the dilema would a wife cheat with the husbands little sister there??,


Yes. Especially if the sister was also hooking up.

Look, there is only one reason musicians would be needing a couple of women back at the hotel. I mean come on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> yes she did that to my friend im concerned about here at the house in front of me...then said she didnt do it........your responses have been better than anything the counselor has told me. maybe i dont care because maybe i really dont want to be married..if i confront her more about my friend ill never get the truth and someone will move out....what to do?


When will you be sitting down and setting appropriate boundaries? You should not be ok with her trips any more. She has shown she cannot be trusted. So either you go too or she does not.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

my only agenda is alternate views concerning my wifes behavior...my nice, sweet, beautiful wife has probably been cheating on me the entire time we have been married to some degree because she has felt from the begining that i never really wanted her...we got married because i got her pregnant......and over the years i have ignored her, rushed past her, not kissed her, been impatient with her and on and on and now its come home.........she tells me she loves me and she doesnt do so well when the idea of divorce up comes.........


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Yes. Especially if the sister was also hooking up.
> 
> Look, there is only one reason musicians would be needing a couple of women back at the hotel. I mean come on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Men will only invest time in woman for so long. In the case of a band it is only about a sure thing. They were invited back to the hotel room to have an evening of sex with two women. They are not looking to get to know the women in much more than the biblical way. Trust me they did not take a gamble here. Sex was discussed before they headed out to the hotel room. They know whether or the women would get totally naked, whether there would be unprotected sex and oral at the least. Yes this explicit. In essence some sort of negotiation took place.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> it was my little sister she was with when she went backstage. thats part of the dilema would a wife cheat with the husbands little sister there??,


Sure, especially if it was group sex with the sister.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> the things im speaking of happened in the past some of them way in the past......they are dredged up because my sixth sense went off when she wanted to go to miami for the concert this past january....can a husband tell a wife NO you cant go see your friend?


Yes. He can tell her I am going too. He can certainly tell her that she lied and he no longer trusts her because of her previous unfaithfulness.

Why can't you assert yourself? maybe you cannot. I could for sure. But I would tell you that I probably would not bother. All the rest of this would have driven me a way years ago. So you just need to decide when you have had enough. Either try to make the marriage better or not.

What exactly your wife has been doing, who knows. But it is outside of your marriage. You know that much. That is enough for many.


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## Alyosha (Feb 27, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I have an acquaintance whose husband cheated while her brother was with him. So the sister thing means nothing.
> 
> As for being the nicest sweetest, heart of gold person, yadda yadda yadda.
> 
> ...


Your husband = my ex-wife. Charming, wildly popular....and phony as all hell.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

im at the point where if i let go i stay married if i start grilling her again in order to get the truth which she will never tell me we get divorced..........with no tangible proof of anything.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> My wife is the *nicest, sweetest, most goodhearted, good mom, heart of gold person* you could meet so the thought of her having some sort of double life is almost unbelievable but i have thought it.





mickey1 said:


> my *nice, sweet, beautiful* wife has probably been cheating on me the entire time we have been married to some degree because she has felt from the begining that i never really wanted her



And that's what a nice, sweet, goodhearted person does?

I think your term of reference for what a "nice, sweet, goodhearted" wife is needs to be readjusted.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

you got yourself a real winner there.

too many red flags to mention!

I think shes been around the block many many many times.

right under your nose.

if her actions bother you put your foot down if she balks too bad show her the door.

scratch all that just show her the door for crying out loud! shes been cheating on you for years most likley!


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> im at the point where if i let go i stay married if i start grilling her again in order to get the truth which she will never tell me we get divorced..........with no tangible proof of anything.




Use voice activated recorders (VAR) and hire private detectives?


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## Encore DT (May 29, 2012)

Unless there is something we haven't been told about the situation, to me this sounds like an obvious case of infidelity. Elusive answers, questionable comments with senseless timing, etc...

I agree with trusting your gut, but I am also surprised that you let this single lifestyle type behavior go on for all these years. Were there clues earlier?


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

mickey1 said:


> im at the point where if i let go i stay married if i start grilling her again in order to get the truth which she will never tell me we get divorced..........with no tangible proof of anything.


So what? You're wife has already shown indisputable signs of disloyalty - she's a chronic lier. She avoids answering questions directly, she's been caught in lies in the past, and she has done some extremely inappropriate things while married to you. Even if she _didn't_ have sex with the band when they went back to the hotel together (which I think is _astronomically_ unlikely), she is behaving like a teenage girl, not like a woman grown and married.

The issue stems from your lack of enforcing boundaries and rules in your marriage - you state that you gave her little attention, that you married her because she was pregnant with your child. You were distant. It seems like you behaved this way until you realized she may be cheating on you a few months ago.

The question is - do you _want_ to stay married with her? Can you lay down some ground rules and _enforce_ them, as her man? Or will you allow her to carry on and do as she pleases, and play the part of meek, non-threatening cuckold?

I fear that Entropy is _entirely_ right - you cannot (or refuse) assert yourself, and your wife has absolutely no respect for you as a man. Sure, she has sex with you due to marital obligation, but she doesn't love or respect you as her partner and mate. She dislikes being confronted with divorce because you are threatening her comfortable living conditions, not because she's afraid of losing you as her husband.

If you will not assert yourself and lay down some rules and boundaries, and if you refuse to spend time with her and keep her focused on you and you alone, then divorce this woman. Just *do it*.

In truth, I'd say divorce her even if you are willing to assert yourself, as your wife sounds like she has a very questionable lifestyle.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

mickey1 said:


> im at the point where if i let go i stay married if i start grilling her again in order to get the truth which she will never tell me we get divorced..........with no tangible proof of anything.


Don't grill her, she's lied to you for years and years, and it's worked for her. Why on earth would she tell you the truth this time? Stop asking her about your marriage...tell her about your marriage. What she does is unacceptable, and in fact makes me ill if I put myself your shoes.

My XW started doing the same stuff, drinking and fooling around at bars and parties. And then lied and minimized just like your wife does to you now. Left her cold once I realized what my future would be with her. (with much help and 2x4s to the head from the nice folks ere at TAM). Don't regret my decision one bit.

Kick her out if you care about yourself at all. It shouldn't be her decision what happens next, she's been in the drivers seat too long, see where it's gotten you? So don't ask her anything anymore...just act in your own best interest. Guessing that doesn't involve being cheated on and lied to by a woman that would clearly rather be a single barfly who's good to go. 

I say tell her she can't go to the concert - for OBVIOUS reasons. If she goes anyway, have her stuff packed when she gets home and stand up for yourself. Not about control, it's about taking charge or YOUR life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Divorce must be a possibility every single day for both spouses. You have to believe that you can divorce her. It must be something you find within the realm of what you can live with.

If not, she will abuse you as much as she wants. She will lose all respect for you and she will stray far and wide.

The possibility of divorce is what makes both partners work on the marriage.

I don't think your wife believes that you will divorce her for any reason.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

micky,

Whether or not she goes to see Buffet, you need to see she goes to a polygrapher. That way, you'll get your proof. Tell her you're not sure you believe her answers, so you're going to play the lie detector game with her. See how she reacts to that.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

look, the red flags have been flying your whole marriage. So why are you here now ?? You are a grown man, so when that friend from long ago introduced himself to her and ignored you, why didn't you speak up then ?? Or follow him outside and ask him why he did that. I think you was afraid he would tell you she was making eyes at him, and you didn't really want to have your suspicions confirmed. I mean, what did your other friends think of this ?? If no one said anything, maybe they know about her and never told you. Also, which is it ?? You said she don't do to well when D is mentioned, then say she will D you if you grill and demand. 20yrs, and you still playing catchup. So make up your mind. Do you want the truth, or do you just want somewhere to vent?? The VETS here have told you their best guess from experience, now what you decide is up to you. We can only advise on what you want to do.


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> look, the red flags have been flying your whole marriage. So why are you here now ?? You are a grown man, so when that friend from long ago introduced himself to her and ignored you, why didn't you speak up then ?? Or follow him outside and ask him why he did that. I think you was afraid he would tell you she was making eyes at him, and you didn't really want to have your suspicions confirmed. I mean, what did your other friends think of this ?? If no one said anything, maybe they know about her and never told you. Also, which is it ?? You said she don't do to well when D is mentioned, then say she will D you if you grill and demand. 20yrs, and you still playing catchup. So make up your mind. Do you want the truth, or do you just want somewhere to vent?? The VETS here have told you their best guess from experience, now what you decide is up to you. We can only advise on what you want do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

A couple of questions..... She has already let me look at one of her statements but I want to look at them again and there is another card I havnt looked at but she said I could so I took that as there being nothing suspicious but now I want to look at that one too.... If ask and she she gets all defensive about it what do think my response should be???
And I appreciate everyones comments but I am filtering them as coming from people who have been betrayed I only know for certain that I am being lied too...
And for those of you who are married why are you reading and posting on these threads?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mickey1 (May 28, 2012)

I also meant to ask if I do come across something suspicious on her statements she will not tell me the truth so is it worth it just to be lied to?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

mickey1 said:


> And I appreciate everyones comments but I am filtering them as coming from people who have been betrayed I only know for certain that I am being lied too...
> And for those of you who are married why are you reading and posting on these threads?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can only speak for myself--my husband and I are reconciling after his long-term emotional affair. I joined the forum a few months ago. I've finished individual counseling and am recovering well from the experience, we have found a marriage counselor trained in infidelity and 3 sessions in it's been terrific. I find posting here cathartic, it isn't something I'm planning on continuing forever (especially at the rate I've been going) but it is something I need right now.

You seem to doubt the quality of advice from people who have experienced betrayal. But I can tell you from where I sit, your wife has already done a hundred things I'd never tolerate from my husband and if he had done them we probably wouldn't be married any more.

The boundaries in your marriage are some of the loosest I've seen on this forum, so it isn't particularly surprising that you are feeling tremendously insecure about your wife and that you find it increasingly difficult to trust her. 

In strong, healthy marriages, the partners don't test or flaunt the boundaries the way your wife has done (and you've allowed her to do--not as if she's a child, but in terms of massively disrespecting YOU as a human being). The reason for this is that--just like you are finding in yourself--it causes the other partner hurt and it also causes them to begin to fall out of love with you.

The point of marriage is to find a life partner you can trust because life all by itself is a difficult road. It is the responsibility of each partner to agree and compromise on appropriate marital boundaries and then call the other partner on it when those boundaries are crossed. Your issue is, you don't really have very many boundaries, so now you find it nearly impossible to enforce them.

What is stopping you from telling your wife:

"I know you want to go to Florida to see your friend. Over the years I've come to realize that some of the things that you've done, going to bars alone, going to concerts and going backstage with the band members, meeting strange men and striking up long conversations wtih them, etc.--none of this is appropriate for a married woman. I love you very much and I've decided that this trip will be harmful for our marriage. I am asking you not to go. Instead, let's spend some time together doing XYZ" where XYZ is something fun, maybe a weekend away together to a beautiful (inexpensive) place within an easy drive of where you live.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Thor said:


> Divorce must be a possibility every single day for both spouses. You have to believe that you can divorce her. It must be something you find within the realm of what you can live with.
> 
> If not, she will abuse you as much as she wants. She will lose all respect for you and she will stray far and wide.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I came her by linking from another site, the experience project. yes I was betrayed in my 1st marriage, but hold no bitterness from it. after finding myself here, and reading some posts that caught my eye, Iv'e stuck around. Now you have to remember this " if a cheaters lips are moving, they are lying." I noticed you never answered my ???. But never mind. If you want to see the statements, tell her so, but be prepared for the end around,, ie,, you should trust me, you are trying to control me. I shold have some privacy. These are the one most used by cheaters. they try to put you on the defence. Don't buy into it. You say you KNOW you are being lied to. Then tell her that, and give her some examples. But don't let her go into trying to explain them at this time. They are just to make a point !! You want to see the statements and want answers if there is something suspicious. And say "if you love me like you say you do, and have nothing to hide, you would be doing all you could to put my worries to rest. But since you are attacking me and acting shady"'' YES SHADY"", then that just tells me my suspicions are right". Tell her privacy is for the bathroom, but you both go in there at the same time, so how is this more private then that. This is more like secrecy, and there should be no secrets in marriages. But have you throught of where you want this all to go ?? Or, what you would do if you found out she has been and still is playing. Why didn't you ask her why she didn't introduce you to the old friend. Basically, if a guy walk up to my wife, I would step between them, YES STEP, because he has just disrespected me and her !! Also, once you saw how she behaved out with you, you should have stopped her unless you went also. No you, no her. deal with it wife. I mean, if she acts this way with you, how do you think she acts without.


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