# Completely lost



## Knocker76

Hu Guys. I'm new here but tbh I've reached the end of my tether. I've been married to my wife for 20 years. From the 1st time I seen her I was smitten. She's my dream girl. The truth is 20 years later its all gone to hell . I'm not the most exciting guy and although I can put on a face and talk for ireland when I'm out and about the truth is I'm actually a pretty introverted guy. My wife is an outgoing woman. She loves music etc. Anyhow the long and the short is she listens to a lot of music and talks on chat rooms while she's doing it. She has met a bunch of people and they've formed a pretty tight bunch. Tbh it has caused a lot of tension and anxiety in me. Sitting there watching her giggle and chat to these guys but ignore me has ate away at me over time to the point where its became a bit of an issue . I've discussed it with her and told her that while she's having a great time I feel I've never felt so alone. At its height this went on for 7 nights a week. It's became a real issue. Last year she told me she was going to fly over and meet up with these guys. I went into full fight or flight and didn't handle things very well at all. She cancelled the trip but since then it's been really crappy. We had a massive row on Nye where I asked her to sit beside me with about 20 minutes left in the countdown. Since then things have been awful. We go into a room and hardly speak. It came to a head again the other day. She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and meet these guys and she wouldn't be cancelling this time. I feel so low I'm barely holding it together. We're not close anymore which is the worse part for me. She says she loves me but isn't in love. a bit of further info. This is a mixed group of men and women. A few months back I accidentally caught her send funny pictures of a sexual nature to the group. (Not of herself but memes)When I confronted her she told me it was only a bit of bantering. I asked her if I was to do the same how she'd feel but she just said she wouldn't mind.


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## jonty30

Knocker76 said:


> Hu Guys. I'm new here but tbh I've reached the end of my tether. I've been married to my wife for 20 years. From the 1st time I seen her I was smitten. She's my dream girl. The truth is 20 years later its all gone to hell . I'm not the most exciting guy and although I can put on a face and talk for ireland when I'm out and about the truth is I'm actually a pretty introverted guy. My wife is an outgoing woman. She loves music etc. Anyhow the long and the short is she listens to a lot of music and talks on chat rooms while she's doing it. She has met a bunch of people and they've formed a pretty tight bunch. Tbh it has caused a lot of tension and anxiety in me. Sitting there watching her giggle and chat to these guys but ignore me has ate away at me over time to the point where its became a bit of an issue . I've discussed it with her and told her that while she's having a great time I feel I've never felt so alone. At its height this went on for 7 nights a week. It's became a real issue. Last year she told me she was going to fly over and meet up with these guys. I went into full fight or flight and didn't handle things very well at all. She cancelled the trip but since then it's been really crappy. We had a massive row on Nye where I asked her to sit beside me with about 20 minutes left in the countdown. Since then things have been awful. We go into a room and hardly speak. It came to a head again the other day. She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and meet these guys and she wouldn't be cancelling this time. I feel so low I'm barely holding it together. We're not close anymore which is the worse part for me. She says she loves me but isn't in love. a bit of further info. This is a mixed group of men and women. A few months back I accidentally caught her send funny pictures of a sexual nature to the group. (Not of herself but memes)When I confronted her she told me it was only a bit of bantering. I asked her if I was to do the same how she'd feel but she just said she wouldn't mind.


When a woman says she loves, but is not in love with you, the marriage is over.
She's not going to see a bunch of guys. She is going to see one of them.
She's road testing somebody to see if she can have a future with that person.


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## Tdbo

I'm sorry, but it sounds like she has checked out.
Your best play at this time is to embrace the inevitable.
Find the best solicitor that you can find and have her served coldly without notice.
Shock and awe is your friend. Make moves that she would never imagine you making.
Study up on the 180 and implement it. Cold, civil and brief is the criteria for future communication.
Embark upon a mission to be all she always wanted you to be, but without her.
New clothes, new haircut, start working out and buff yourself up. Make sure that your vision of her is in the rear view mirror,
Find new friends and activities without her. Start transitioning her out of your life.
Do all this for yourself. She may understand that actions have consequences, and start moving back your way.
You only accept this on your terms, and she is willing to do the hard, required work to become a safe spouse.
Only you truly know if you are better off with or without her. However, in this form, I think that you would be better off with a dog.


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## Rob_1

The problem here is that you are the puppet and she the puppeteer, she holds the card, you just bluff. You are the supplicant in a relationship that already ran its course, but you're so desperate, and afraid to lose her that you can't see that you already lost her. Dude, she's not longer in love with you. At least save your pride and self-respect and end it with your head held high.

When she's leaving to meet the guy (yes,one) Just give her your wedding ring and tell her: good luck with your new lover, I'm out, here are the divorce papers. SAYONARA.


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## rugswept

bantering? These days, after it became fashionable and common, any time there's exchange of sexual content, the only thing closer than that is deep kissing.

sexual content -> deep kissing -> pants off -> have at it.. what you got in mind?

You may only be at sexual content. She was thinking back in the recesses of her mind of the possibility of pants off with guys.

Shut it all down or end it all, your choice. Maybe both. If you just let it go you're on the slippery slope of the choo choo -> -> -> above , 

I have no idea where she's gone to. You probably don't either.
Good Luck.


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## QuietGuy

If you have the funds available you could hire a PI at her destination. In the best of situations I would be very uncomfortable with my wife flying off to meet internet strangers. She has obviously developed strong relationships with them already. A strong friend relationship can move to a romantic one very quickly, so even if there is no romantic connection now, there certainly could be before she returns. Did she invite you along on either trip? Ask her how she expects to be in love with you when her emotional energy is directed elsewhere.


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## Talker67

are you sure these guys are all "long distance"?


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## Lola Lavender

Coming from someone who has been neglected and ended up talking to people online, unfortunately, it seems like she's no longer interested in you anymore. It's horrible but I've come to realise if someone doesn't give you the time of day then it's time to move on.... or try everything you can before you end it. Twenty years is a very long time and I can understand that it will be tough to let go of. Good luck with it all <3


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## re16

The one who cares the least has the power in a relationship. Right now, it’s obvious she cares the least…

Why can’t you accompany her on this trip?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rob_1 said:


> The problem here is that you are the puppet and she the puppeteer, she holds the card, you just bluff. You are the supplicant in a relationship that already ran its course, but you're so desperate, and afraid to lose her that you can't see that you already lost her. Dude, she's not longer in love with you. At least save your pride and self-respect and end it with your head held high.
> 
> When she's leaving to meet the guy (yes,one) Just give her your wedding ring and tell her: good luck with your new lover, I'm out, here are the divorce papers. SAYONARA.


No, sell the ring, put the money in your D fund. But I get the impact. But, not broadcasting beyond that is your friend. Don't inform her of your executing the divorce papers and keeping control of your finances.


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## Rob_1

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No, sell the ring, put the money in your D fund. But I get the impact. But, not broadcasting beyond that is your friend. Don't inform her of your executing the divorce papers and keeping control of your finances.


I get your point, but in my post all that is supposed to be done before giving divorce papers. As for the ring..a man's wedding band at a pawn shop is worth no more than a few bucks, unless is embedded with real diamonds or other precious stones, but most men's wedding bands are just your plain, unadorned, 18 or 24 k gold bands. No one gives more than a few bucks for them.


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## wmn1

Knocker76 said:


> Hu Guys. I'm new here but tbh I've reached the end of my tether. I've been married to my wife for 20 years. From the 1st time I seen her I was smitten. She's my dream girl. The truth is 20 years later its all gone to hell . I'm not the most exciting guy and although I can put on a face and talk for ireland when I'm out and about the truth is I'm actually a pretty introverted guy. My wife is an outgoing woman. She loves music etc. Anyhow the long and the short is she listens to a lot of music and talks on chat rooms while she's doing it. She has met a bunch of people and they've formed a pretty tight bunch. Tbh it has caused a lot of tension and anxiety in me. Sitting there watching her giggle and chat to these guys but ignore me has ate away at me over time to the point where its became a bit of an issue . I've discussed it with her and told her that while she's having a great time I feel I've never felt so alone. At its height this went on for 7 nights a week. It's became a real issue. Last year she told me she was going to fly over and meet up with these guys. I went into full fight or flight and didn't handle things very well at all. She cancelled the trip but since then it's been really crappy. We had a massive row on Nye where I asked her to sit beside me with about 20 minutes left in the countdown. Since then things have been awful. We go into a room and hardly speak. It came to a head again the other day. She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and meet these guys and she wouldn't be cancelling this time. I feel so low I'm barely holding it together. We're not close anymore which is the worse part for me. She says she loves me but isn't in love. a bit of further info. This is a mixed group of men and women. A few months back I accidentally caught her send funny pictures of a sexual nature to the group. (Not of herself but memes)When I confronted her she told me it was only a bit of bantering. I asked her if I was to do the same how she'd feel but she just said she wouldn't mind.


financially, can you afford to 'ghost' her and start a new life and have her served D papers when she gets back from the trip ?

As Jonty said, she is cheating. She is sealing some type of deal on this trip.

So you seal the deal and move on and find someone more like you


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## Marc878

Let her go and free yourself. What are you getting out of this? You know what she’s going for. 
Only you can make yourself a chump. Why do that?


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## Marc878

Do yourself a big favor. Download and read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf and short.

It doesn’t work unless you fully apply it.


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## marko polo

"She says she loves me but isn't in love. "

She isn't in love with you and probably never has been. Her interest in you has likely been only what you can provide to her. She needs you to remain as her back up plan if things don't work out with one or more of the men she is currently involved with.

Let her go. She has already been intimate with one or more of these men otherwise she wouldn't be flying out to meet them and leaving you on the back burner without a second thought. _Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option. — *Mark Twain* _

The most prudent course for you would be to speak to a lawyer as quickly as possible. Do so without her knowledge. If you have no kids with her then you are fortunate. Your escape will be far less complicated and painless without her using any children as leverage over you. 

Get yourself tested for STDs. At the height of her activity with these other men she was gone 7 nights a week. They weren't just talking about music or their interests. Especially if you shared no intimacy with her during this period. You weren't getting anything but you can bet she was.

If you are able to move out while she is away that would be for the best. There will be no conflict and she has no opportunity to make false allegations of abuse or violence to bar you from the residence or jail you while she is away. You will not find sanctuary or piece of mind under the same roof with her. Check with a lawyer first before you leave. Your emotional misery and suffering are bonus fuel for her ego on top of whatever validation and excitement she is getting from these other men / _friends._

It is unlikely she will reach out to you while she is _busy_ with her friends. If she does contact you do not answer her texts or calls. There is nothing left to say. She has already made her position clear. Any attempt at contact with you is merely her attempt to manipulate you and confirm you will still be there for her after she has been well used by her _friends_.

Escape as quickly as you can. You may not see this situation as a blessing now but a few years down the road when you are free and happy you certainly will.


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## BigDaddyNY

Knocker76 said:


> Hu Guys. I'm new here but tbh I've reached the end of my tether. I've been married to my wife for 20 years. From the 1st time I seen her I was smitten. She's my dream girl. The truth is 20 years later its all gone to hell . I'm not the most exciting guy and although I can put on a face and talk for ireland when I'm out and about the truth is I'm actually a pretty introverted guy. My wife is an outgoing woman. She loves music etc. Anyhow the long and the short is she listens to a lot of music and talks on chat rooms while she's doing it. She has met a bunch of people and they've formed a pretty tight bunch. Tbh it has caused a lot of tension and anxiety in me. Sitting there watching her giggle and chat to these guys but ignore me has ate away at me over time to the point where its became a bit of an issue . I've discussed it with her and told her that while she's having a great time I feel I've never felt so alone. At its height this went on for 7 nights a week. It's became a real issue. Last year she told me she was going to fly over and meet up with these guys. I went into full fight or flight and didn't handle things very well at all. She cancelled the trip but since then it's been really crappy. We had a massive row on Nye where I asked her to sit beside me with about 20 minutes left in the countdown. Since then things have been awful. We go into a room and hardly speak. It came to a head again the other day. She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and meet these guys and she wouldn't be cancelling this time. I feel so low I'm barely holding it together. We're not close anymore which is the worse part for me. She says she loves me but isn't in love. a bit of further info. This is a mixed group of men and women. A few months back I accidentally caught her send funny pictures of a sexual nature to the group. (Not of herself but memes)When I confronted her she told me it was only a bit of bantering.* I asked her if I was to do the same how she'd feel but she just said she wouldn't mind.*


She said she wouldn't mind if you did the same thing because she isn't in love with you anymore. It was great you put your foot down on the previous trip, but you were too slow to set up boundaries to address what lead to that. Its probably a lost cause, but what if you said you would go with her?

You never asked a question in your post. What is it that you want?


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## sokillme

Knocker76 said:


> Hu Guys. I'm new here but tbh I've reached the end of my tether. I've been married to my wife for 20 years. From the 1st time I seen her I was smitten. She's my dream girl. The truth is 20 years later its all gone to hell . I'm not the most exciting guy and although I can put on a face and talk for ireland when I'm out and about the truth is I'm actually a pretty introverted guy. My wife is an outgoing woman. She loves music etc. Anyhow the long and the short is she listens to a lot of music and talks on chat rooms while she's doing it. She has met a bunch of people and they've formed a pretty tight bunch. Tbh it has caused a lot of tension and anxiety in me. Sitting there watching her giggle and chat to these guys but ignore me has ate away at me over time to the point where its became a bit of an issue . I've discussed it with her and told her that while she's having a great time I feel I've never felt so alone. At its height this went on for 7 nights a week. It's became a real issue. Last year she told me she was going to fly over and meet up with these guys. I went into full fight or flight and didn't handle things very well at all. She cancelled the trip but since then it's been really crappy. We had a massive row on Nye where I asked her to sit beside me with about 20 minutes left in the countdown. Since then things have been awful. We go into a room and hardly speak. It came to a head again the other day. She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and meet these guys and she wouldn't be cancelling this time. I feel so low I'm barely holding it together. We're not close anymore which is the worse part for me. She says she loves me but isn't in love. a bit of further info. This is a mixed group of men and women. A few months back I accidentally caught her send funny pictures of a sexual nature to the group. (Not of herself but memes)When I confronted her she told me it was only a bit of bantering. I asked her if I was to do the same how she'd feel but she just said she wouldn't mind.


She sounds less like a wife an more like a kid you pay expenses for. If she looked like Sophia Loren she still wouldn't be worth putting up with that, dream girl or not. Frankly there should be a lot more then looks to make someone your dream spouse.

Marriage is like a rope bridge connceted by two sides, think of the end of "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom". When one side loses conncetion all your left with is some boards hanging from the other side. It's not a functioning bridge anymore, and so loses it's utility. Basically there is nothing left to save.

I think you should discuss divorce.

Look at it this way you got a very pretty women to marry you. You probably should have only dated her for a while though.


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## Anastasia6

So did I miss where she is financially dependent on the OP? I'm not saying she is or is not. What I'm saying is your misogyny is peeking. He's come complaining that his wife has found attention on the internet. Not good.
She's now not in love with him. Not Good.

But somehow many people are all of a sudden saying your a paycheck? What if she has a job and she pays her share or 1/2 of everything? Then what are you going to tell him?


OP it sounds like you two did not spend time continuing to interact on a personal level. Talking and listening to each other. She sought that out online and has met people she now considers to be more fun. There is a good chance at least one of these people is catching her eye from a male / female perspective. I notice you say that sitting on the couch while she is doing these things makes you feel alone. I can completely empathize with you. How did this start though? Did you two regularly engage and she just stopped or did you two regularly sit there doing nothing or watch TV shows she wasn't that interested in? 

Do you have children? Does she stay home with children or by herself and not work? These can lead to a deep desire to connect with other adults. 

I like the idea of you going with her, if you are interested in saving your marriage. She maybe past that point. It sounds like last time she cancelled because she still cared about you. Which is great but did you do anything to help with her need for connection and fun? Sounds like this time she's decided that connection and fun are more important than sitting home. So go with her. Have some fun. 

On the other hand if you aren't happy anymore, it doesn't seem like she's happy either. So if you two can't communicate and work to enjoy each other and each other's interest then maybe it is time to call it quits.


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## SunCMars

The thing is....

It is still a social crime to fall out of love, and then to abandon a marriage.

This wife is doing this openly, and, less-so, behind her husbands back.

Marriage is certainly important, but needs not to be, a to-the-death, sentencing.

I get it, she has developed feelings for others, and is purposely leaving her husband behind.

She has broken her vows, and broken her husbands heart.

People (even those married) must be able to change, to evolve.

And, to do so without shame.

But, not to dissolve a marriage, having displayed no honor.

Divorce, than move on.


_Lilith-
_


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## Knocker76

There are tw


Anastasia6 said:


> So did I miss where she is financially dependent on the OP? I'm not saying she is or is not. What I'm saying is your misogyny is peeking. He's come complaining that his wife has found attention on the internet. Not good.
> She's now not in love with him. Not Good.
> 
> But somehow many people are all of a sudden saying your a paycheck? What if she has a job and she pays her share or 1/2 of everything? Then what are you going to tell him?
> 
> 
> OP it sounds like you two did not spend time continuing to interact on a personal level. Talking and listening to each other. She sought that out online and has met people she now considers to be more fun. There is a good chance at least one of these people is catching her eye from a male / female perspective. I notice you say that sitting on the couch while she is doing these things makes you feel alone. I can completely empathize with you. How did this start though? Did you two regularly engage and she just stopped or did you two regularly sit there doing nothing or watch TV shows she wasn't that interested in?
> 
> Do you have children? Does she stay home with children or by herself and not work? These can lead to a deep desire to connect with other adults.
> 
> I like the idea of you going with her, if you are interested in saving your marriage. She maybe past that point. It sounds like last time she cancelled because she still cared about you. Which is great but did you do anything to help with her need for connection and fun? Sounds like this time she's decided that connection and fun are more important than sitting home. So go with her. Have some fun.
> 
> On the other hand if you aren't happy anymore, it doesn't seem like she's happy either. So if you two can't communicate and work to enjoy each other and each other's interest then maybe it is time to call it


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## Anastasia6

SunCMars said:


> The thing is....
> 
> It is still a social crime to fall out of love, and then to abandon a marriage.
> 
> This wife is doing this openly, and, less-so, behind her husbands back.
> 
> Marriage is certainly important, but needs not to be, a to-the-death, sentencing.
> 
> I get it, she has developed feelings for others, and is purposely leaving her husband behind.
> 
> She has broken her vows, and broken her husbands heart.
> 
> People (even those married) must be able to change, to evolve.
> 
> And, to do so without shame.
> 
> But, not to dissolve a marriage, having displayed no honor.
> 
> Divorce, than move on.
> 
> 
> _Lilith-_


While I don't discount she probably has developed feelings for others. I do discount that she shouldn't have friends. Many people have online friends or groups of people they interact with regularly.

Like TAM has a core group some interact with each other more than others. We even talk sex. My work sometimes has chats and we might make meme jokes. None of the people at my work are 'involved' with each other so to speak. Some have traveled and met up with others at our work. 

So seems like she has made friends. She wanted to go met up have some fun. That doesn't mean she likes any of the men or has stepped over any boundaries. I agree it may have happened. But I wouldn't assume it to be so. 

So to it is socially unacceptable to fall out of love, I don't think that's true people do it all the time and then they consciously uncouple right?

My question is what are we going to do now? Not sure he can do anything.

It sounds like they aren't connected. She'd like a fun connected life. She made plans, he squashed them but hasn't changed any of the dynamic other than now she feels squashed. So she's decided, she's not going to be squashed anymore. Unless he knows that she is involved with someone in particular, I say have fun go with her meet these people. I don't think trying to keep her home and continuing in this power struggle will do anything to help the marriage.

On the flip side when a woman is not in love anymore not sure if that is fixable. I think for some it is but others it's not. If there is another who is actually on the scene then no probably not.

when two polar opposite get together there needs to be some kind of compromise. So how has OP become more outgoing? We know she sits at home regular even on NYE so she seems to be doing her compromise by staying home.


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## Anastasia6

Knocker76 said:


> There are tw


you realize it got cut off right. I'm very interested in your response.


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## Knocker76

T


Knocker76 said:


> There are tw


There are 2 children involved. 1 is 16 and is working and the other is 13. We both work. I work 12 hour shifts 4 days a week and she works 2 8 hour dayshifts. We split the bills accordingly with me picking up the lions share. Nearly everything she asks for within reason I get for her and the kids. In all honesty she actually has more money of her own when it's all said and done.
We used to be into the niteclub scene when we started going out together. Over lockdown when the clubs shut the DJs started streaming online and she started listening. TBH I've grown out of that sort of thing so she listened on headphones. The whole thing spiraled from there and a year and a half later here we are.


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## Knocker76

Anastasia6 said:


> While I don't discount she probably has developed feelings for others. I do discount that she shouldn't have friends. Many people have online friends or groups of people they interact with regularly.
> 
> Like TAM has a core group some interact with each other more than others. We even talk sex. My work sometimes has chats and we might make meme jokes. None of the people at my work are 'involved' with each other so to speak. Some have traveled and met up with others at our work.
> 
> So seems like she has made friends. She wanted to go met up have some fun. That doesn't mean she likes any of the men or has stepped over any boundaries. I agree it may have happened. But I wouldn't assume it to be so.
> 
> So to it is socially unacceptable to fall out of love, I don't think that's true people do it all the time and then they consciously uncouple right?
> 
> My question is what are we going to do now? Not sure he can do anything.
> 
> It sounds like they aren't connected. She'd like a fun connected life. She made plans, he squashed them but hasn't changed any of the dynamic other than now she feels squashed. So she's decided she's not going to be squashed anymore. Unless he knows that she is involved with someone in particular I say have fun go with her meet these people. I don't think trying to keep her home and continuing in this power struggle with do anything to help the marriage.
> 
> On the flip side when a woman is not in love anymore not sure if that is fixable. I think for some it is but others it's not. If there is another who is actually on the scene then no probably not.
> 
> when two polar opposite get together there needs to be some kind of compromise. So how has OP become more outgoing? We know she sits at home regular even on NYE so she seems to be doing her compromise by staying home.


Also I have never once stood in the way of her social life. She has 100 times the social life I have. Lunch with the girls. Spa breaks with the girls and nights out with her friends. That's the 1st time I ever tried to put my foot down and "ruin her fun"


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## Knocker76

Anastasia6 said:


> While I don't discount she probably has developed feelings for others. I do discount that she shouldn't have friends. Many people have online friends or groups of people they interact with regularly.
> 
> Like TAM has a core group some interact with each other more than others. We even talk sex. My work sometimes has chats and we might make meme jokes. None of the people at my work are 'involved' with each other so to speak. Some have traveled and met up with others at our work.
> 
> So seems like she has made friends. She wanted to go met up have some fun. That doesn't mean she likes any of the men or has stepped over any boundaries. I agree it may have happened. But I wouldn't assume it to be so.
> 
> So to it is socially unacceptable to fall out of love, I don't think that's true people do it all the time and then they consciously uncouple right?
> 
> My question is what are we going to do now? Not sure he can do anything.
> 
> It sounds like they aren't connected. She'd like a fun connected life. She made plans, he squashed them but hasn't changed any of the dynamic other than now she feels squashed. So she's decided she's not going to be squashed anymore. Unless he knows that she is involved with someone in particular I say have fun go with her meet these people. I don't think trying to keep her home and continuing in this power struggle with do anything to help the marriage.
> 
> On the flip side when a woman is not in love anymore not sure if that is fixable. I think for some it is but others it's not. If there is another who is actually on the scene then no probably not.
> 
> when two polar opposite get together there needs to be some kind of compromise. So how has OP become more outgoing? We know she sits at home regular even on NYE so she seems to be doing her compromise by staying home.


Also I have never once stood in the way of her social life. She has 100 times the social life I have. Lunch with the girls. Spa breaks with the girls and nights out with her friends. That's the 1st time I ever tried to put my foot down and "ruin her fun"


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## SunCMars

Anastasia6 said:


> While I don't discount she probably has developed feelings for others. I do discount that she shouldn't have friends. Many people have online friends or groups of people they interact with regularly.
> 
> Like TAM has a core group some interact with each other more than others. We even talk sex. My work sometimes has chats and we might make meme jokes. None of the people at my work are 'involved' with each other so to speak. Some have traveled and met up with others at our work.
> 
> So seems like she has made friends. She wanted to go met up have some fun. That doesn't mean she likes any of the men or has stepped over any boundaries. I agree it may have happened. But I wouldn't assume it to be so.
> 
> So to it is socially unacceptable to fall out of love, I don't think that's true people do it all the time and then they consciously uncouple right?
> 
> My question is what are we going to do now? Not sure he can do anything.
> 
> It sounds like they aren't connected. She'd like a fun connected life. She made plans, he squashed them but hasn't changed any of the dynamic other than now she feels squashed. So she's decided she's not going to be squashed anymore. Unless he knows that she is involved with someone in particular I say have fun go with her meet these people. I don't think trying to keep her home and continuing in this power struggle with do anything to help the marriage.
> 
> On the flip side when a woman is not in love anymore not sure if that is fixable. I think for some it is but others it's not. If there is another who is actually on the scene then no probably not.
> 
> when two polar opposite get together there needs to be some kind of compromise. So how has OP become more outgoing? We know she sits at home regular even on NYE so she seems to be doing her compromise by staying home.


No arguments from me on this...

Life is short, and some partners are hopelessly short-sighted.

Having compatibility problems is certainly the leading cause of divorce.

Getting married is easy, getting un-married is almost always, painful and complicated.


_L-_


----------



## Anastasia6

Knocker76 said:


> Also I have never once stood in the way of her social life. She has 100 times the social life I have. Lunch with the girls. Spa breaks with the girls and nights out with her friends. That's the 1st time I ever tried to put my foot down and "ruin her fun"


So why put your foot down versus going with her?

You haven't really answered what your interaction with her is like. You used to go to clubs and have fun and date. Pandemic now you don't but do your still date or interact? You know you can do these things at home. Do you get away from the kids. Like go walking without them? Lock yourselves in your room just to talk or watch TV together?


----------



## Knocker76

Knocker76 said:


> Also I have never once stood in the way of her social life. She has 100 times the social life I have. Lunch with the girls. Spa breaks with the girls and nights out with her friends. That's the 1st time I ever tried to put my foot down and "ruin her fun"


Also the only reason I did it is I actually don't know any of these people and she only knows them from online interaction.


----------



## SunCMars

Knocker76 said:


> Also I have never once stood in the way of her social life. She has 100 times the social life I have. Lunch with the girls. Spa breaks with the girls and nights out with her friends. That's the 1st time I ever tried to put my foot down and "ruin her fun"


Good to hear...

Yet...

It has conditioned her to accept no social constraints from you.

Your reward for giving her so much freedom, is her going against your concerns and rightful wishes.

I agree with the others, (calmly) tell her that your will go with her to (Ireland).

Her response will be telling.


----------



## Anastasia6

SunCMars said:


> Good to hear...
> 
> Yet...
> 
> It has conditioned her to accept no social constraints from you.
> 
> Your reward for giving her so much freedom, is her going against your concerns and rightful wishes.
> 
> I agree with the others, (calmly) tell her that your will go with her to (Ireland).
> 
> Her response will be telling.


I love everything about it.

HOWEVER, I'd make sure you don't make it sound like you are dad or something.

You are a loving husband who wants to be with her and enjoy her company. You also love her and don't want her to be in a vulnerable position meeting strangers. Loving, Protective but not overbearing or boorish. 

Yes her response will be interesting.


----------



## Anastasia6

Knocker76 said:


> Also the only reason I did it is I actually don't know any of these people and she only knows them from online interaction.


Ok so this response could be considered reasonable or not. 

One why are you an adult with so much better judgement than her (that is sarcasm you see this some how puts you in a position of being a better judge of character when you admit you don't even know these people and she does).

It seem more like and excuse to keep her home for your own reasons. I don't blame you for not wanting her to go by herself to meet internet people particularly some men who might be interested in her. That's smart on your part. So are you just using the stranger danger thing as an excuse?


----------



## Knocker76

I think this sounds like a plan and will be my next and last action I will take. 
We actually do a lot of couple stuff as well. Hotel breaks , city breaks and lunch and dinner dates. I might be a bit of an oaf but I'm not a complete ogre. I've just grown out of the niteclub scene.


----------



## Anastasia6

Knocker76 said:


> I think this sounds like a plan and will be my next and last action I will take.
> We actually do a lot of couple stuff as well. Hotel breaks , city breaks and lunch and dinner dates. I might be a bit of an oaf but I'm not a complete ogre. I've just grown out of the niteclub scene.


So if you are still doing couple stuff why do you think this group is so important to her.

The pandemic has effected people is lots of ways many psychologically. Do you think this group has like been there for her during this time and she feels connected?

Or do you think she is having an emotional affair with a particular member?

You 'saw' a meme that you didn't appreciate. Did it go to only one member?


----------



## Anastasia6

Knocker76 said:


> I think this sounds like a plan and will be my next and last action I will take.
> We actually do a lot of couple stuff as well. Hotel breaks , city breaks and lunch and dinner dates. I might be a bit of an oaf but I'm not a complete ogre. I've just grown out of the niteclub scene.


PS I'm not saying you are an Ogre. I want to find the 'truth' of your relationship and help you.

I mean I could if you like just take your side say she sucks and tell you to divorce her. Many will come and do that for you. Is that what you want? Is there a particular reason other than stranger danger you don't want her to meet her friends?

ETA: ;one of the ways I try to figure out what is going on is I'll try to present one possible woman's version. I mean I think it is obvious you and your wife don't think a like on this. So if I try being the 'woman's point of view' then we can hash things out and maybe come up with a plan.


----------



## Ursula

Tdbo said:


> I'm sorry, but it sounds like she has checked out.
> Your best play at this time is to embrace the inevitable.
> Find the best solicitor that you can find and have her served coldly without notice.
> Shock and awe is your friend. Make moves that she would never imagine you making.
> Study up on the 180 and implement it. Cold, civil and brief is the criteria for future communication.
> Embark upon a mission to be all she always wanted you to be, but without her.
> New clothes, new haircut, start working out and buff yourself up. Make sure that your vision of her is in the rear view mirror,
> Find new friends and activities without her. Start transitioning her out of your life.
> Do all this for yourself. She may understand that actions have consequences, and start moving back your way.
> You only accept this on your terms, and she is willing to do the hard, required work to become a safe spouse.
> Only you truly know if you are better off with or without her. However, in this form, I think that you would be better off with a dog.


This 100%! If you do implement these needed changes, please be warned that she will probably start changing immediately. This could be a good thing, but only if she's genuine. Chances are very good though that she'll "change" just enough to snag you back in, and then gradually go back to the way things are now. My XH was like this: promised change time and time again, only to go right back to treating me like an object. Like your wife, I fell out of love, and never got it back for him. You need a partner who wants to be with you and share all that life has to offer; your wife obviously doesn't fit the bill. And yeah, you're better off with a doggo; they're loyal to the end and love you 100% all the time if you treat them right.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rob_1 said:


> I get your point, but in my post all that is supposed to be done before giving divorce papers. As for the ring..a man's wedding band at a pawn shop is worth no more than a few bucks, unless is embedded with real diamonds or other precious stones, but most men's wedding bands are just your plain, unadorned, 18 or 24 k gold bands. No one gives more than a few bucks for them.


I doubt I'm the only exception on ring value, mine would get its value in weight and the diamonds, so not all are that inexpensive if resold or melted/diamonds sold separately 😉.

That said, I hear you. My point is why give her anything worth anything. Don't even give her a few dollars. The ring act will be part of her rewriting history stories.


----------



## EleGirl

Knocker76 said:


> She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and *meet these guys* and she wouldn't be cancelling this time.


The these "guys" men, women, a mix, or what?


----------



## Knocker76

I honestly don't know. I've been swimming against the tide for so long now I just don't know. The real low point was coming home from work to find a bottle of prosecco and a box of sweets with a card with a sexual innuendo on it that was sent to her for her birthday.It wasn't my greatest moment and I reacted badly. Not ranting and raving but I told her I felt it was a bit inappropriate for someone to send a married woman. She just doesn't see the problem in this.


----------



## Anastasia6

Knocker76 said:


> I honestly don't know. I've been swimming against the tide for so long now I just don't know. The real low point was coming home from work to find a bottle of prosecco and a box of sweets with a card with a sexual innuendo on it that was sent to her for her birthday.It wasn't my greatest moment and I reacted badly. Not ranting and raving but I told her I felt it was a bit inappropriate for someone to send a married woman. She just doesn't see the problem in this.


Well not sure how you can react badly. Meaning yes you should have been upset. So not being happy would not be reacting badly it would be normal. Now physical violence or throwing things would be bad.

Sound like someone is being inappropriate. I'm assuming this gift was from a man and not a joke from a fellow female (though that doesn't mean it isn't inappropriate).

Sounds like she is having an emotional affair and if she goes in person it will be a physical affair.

Chances are the writing is on the wall and there isn't any point. 

So the divorce her crew wins this round. 

Does she even want to be in the marriage?


----------



## Knocker76

The someone was a man btw.


----------



## Anastasia6

Knocker76 said:


> The someone was a man btw.


So 1st you should have put that in the lead to your story. This makes it obvious she has checked out and is deep in an emotional affair that will most likely become physical if she goes.

2nd when in emotional affairs people tend to 'make their spouse out to be the bad guy'. Why because then they feel so less guilty for being Pieces of ****.

3rd. While some people do save their marriage at this stage the question is do you really want to? She seems like an unsafe partner and you aren't happy anyway.


----------



## Knocker76

Sorry I'm pretty mixed up and I'm most likely not making a good fist of this posting malarkey. I'm just posting as I'm remembering points I've left out. Tbh this is the 1st time I've really discussed this with anybody. I've been bottling it up for too long. 
The sad thing is I really think the world of her and would still like to make it work. Im starting to believe this is a losing battle.


----------



## EleGirl

Knocker76 said:


> I honestly don't know. I've been swimming against the tide for so long now I just don't know. The real low point was coming home from work to find a bottle of prosecco and a box of sweets with a card with a sexual innuendo on it that was sent to her for her birthday. It wasn't my greatest moment and I reacted badly. Not ranting and raving but I told her I felt it was a bit inappropriate for someone to send a married woman. She just doesn't see the problem in this.


I can tell you I did in a similar situation. I installed tracking software on my husband's computer. I could see everything that he typed on his computer and the entirety of online discussions/chats. The data was uploaded to a site that I could access so after installation I did not need to get onto his computer to see what he was doing. I did find out that he was cheating with people he met online. He traveled for work and met up with women when he was in their city.

The software is Webwatcher - See Texts, Photos and More 

Also is there any way that you could join that online group without her knowing it was you? That's another way to find out what she's up to.

I think what she's doing is 100% inappropriate. It sounds like at least on of her online friends is a man who she is developing a relationship with.

Did you by any change get the name and address of the man who sent her the gifts?


----------



## EleGirl

Knocker76 said:


> Sorry I'm pretty mixed up and I'm most likely not making a good fist of this posting malarkey. I'm just posting as I'm remembering points I've left out. Tbh this is the 1st time I've really discussed this with anybody. I've been bottling it up for too long.
> The sad thing is I really think the world of her and would still like to make it work. Im starting to believe this is a losing battle.


Get the book Surviving an Affair. It will give you a step-by-step approach of how to handle this. We can give you support here, but the book will give you the steps in a very clear fashion.

Amazon.com: Surviving an Affair (Audible Audio Edition): Dr. Willard F. Harley Jr., Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers, Dr. Willard F. Harley Jr., One Audiobooks: Audible Books & Originals


----------



## Knocker76

EleGirl said:


> I can tell you I did in a similar situation. I installed tracking software on my husband's computer. I could see everything that he typed on his computer and the entirety of online discussions/chats. The data was uploaded to a site that I could access so after installation I did not need to get onto his computer to see what he was doing. I did find out that he was cheating with people he met online. He traveled for work and met up with women when he was in their city.
> 
> The software is Webwatcher - See Texts, Photos and More
> 
> Also is there any way that you could join that online group without her knowing it was you? That's another way to find out what she's up to.
> 
> I think what she's doing is 100% inappropriate. It sounds like at least on of her online friends is a man who she is developing a relationship with.
> 
> Did you by any change get the name and address of the man who sent her the gifts?


It's a WhatsApp group. You have to be in their public groups and if they like you you get a WhatsApp invite. I know who the guy is of Facebook and he has a partner himself.


----------



## wmn1

Marc878 said:


> Let her go and free yourself. What are you getting out of this? You know what she’s going for.
> Only you can make yourself a chump. Why do that?


yep


----------



## DownByTheRiver

As a music lover, I can only tell you that if you're really into music, you don't outgrow it and stop wanting to see bands. Is this trip planned around a concert? Because that's what I used to do, plan trips around concerts, and then there were online people who wanted to meet me while there, and some I said yes and some I said no or said "only as a group in public." So I remember one guy wanted to go to the show with me, and I said no. But a group gathered at a hotel lobby afterwards, and I went to that. It was mixed, mostly married couples who lived locally. 

If she's sending sexy pics and encouraging sexy flirtation, she's out of bounds, obviously. But she's not out of bounds for wanting to go see bands and do the music scene if that's her thing and that's what she's doing. 

I think you should go with her. She really can't object to that. She may call the trip off instead if she thinks you being there is somehow going to keep her from going and doing what she wants while there, so if you go, I suggest you let her make the plans and you just go along with that if you want to come back in one piece as a couple!

BTW, meeting people you think you know well online isn't what it's cracked up to be. It's usually awkward.


----------



## Anastasia6

Knocker76 said:


> Sorry I'm pretty mixed up and I'm most likely not making a good fist of this posting malarkey. I'm just posting as I'm remembering points I've left out. Tbh this is the 1st time I've really discussed this with anybody. I've been bottling it up for too long.
> The sad thing is I really think the world of her and would still like to make it work. Im starting to believe this is a losing battle.


Well I"m sure this whole thing sucks for you. You can't mess the posting up. To be honest it's your thread. You just get better feedback if we know more things.


----------



## Anastasia6

DownByTheRiver said:


> As a music lover, I can only tell you that if you're really into music, you don't outgrow it and stop wanting to see bands. Is this trip planned around a concert? Because that's what I used to do, plan trips around concerts, and then there were online people who wanted to meet me while there, and some I said yes and some I said no or said "only as a group in public." So I remember one guy wanted to go to the show with me, and I said no. But a group gathered at a hotel lobby afterwards, and I went to that. It was mixed, mostly married couples who lived locally.
> 
> If she's sending sexy pics and encouraging sexy flirtation, she's out of bounds, obviously. But she's not out of bounds for wanting to go see bands and do the music scene if that's her thing and that's what she's doing.
> 
> I think you should go with her. She really can't object to that. She may call the trip off instead if she thinks you being there is somehow going to keep her from going and doing what she wants while there, so if you go, I suggest you let her make the plans and you just go along with that if you want to come back in one piece as a couple!
> 
> BTW, meeting people you think you know well online isn't what it's cracked up to be. It's usually awkward.


Keep reading you get to the inappropriate gifts from a man.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Anastasia6 said:


> Keep reading you get to the inappropriate gifts from a man.


I saw it. But I mean, she doesn't control some man she's not met, but if he's one of the ones she's going to meet, like I said, out of bounds!


----------



## Anastasia6

So this isn't my area of expertise. I can say that people come back from this step, and some don't. You need to really think if you want the marriage or you just want something that doesn't exist anymore.

If you want it. I'd start by getting ElGirl's book recommendation. I'd let the man's partner know about the gift and what the note said if you can remember. I would tell your wife that the relationship is inappropriate and that you will not stand by.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Knocker76 said:


> I honestly don't know. I've been swimming against the tide for so long now I just don't know. The real low point was coming home from work to find a bottle of prosecco and a box of sweets with a card with a sexual innuendo on it that was sent to her for her birthday.It wasn't my greatest moment and I reacted badly. Not ranting and raving but I told her I felt it was a bit inappropriate for someone to send a married woman. She just doesn't see the problem in this.


Do you mind saying what exactly the sexual innuendo was and is this a guy she has ever met?


----------



## Knocker76

It 


DownByTheRiver said:


> Do you mind saying what exactly the sexual innuendo was and is this a guy she has ever met?


It was along the lines of ##### loves big COCKtails. It was one of those cards you get made from an online gifting company. Yep she's only had contact with him online. The thing is if it was one of our real world friends I would probably just have laughed it off. I'm not 100% but I think he one of the guys going to the meet up.


----------



## Knocker76

Knocker76 said:


> It
> 
> It was along the lines of ##### loves big COCKtails. It was one of those cards you get made from an online gifting company. Yep she's only had contact with him online. The thing is if it was one of our real world friends I would probably just have laughed it off. I'm not 100% but I think he one of the guys going to the meet up.


**** in large letters with tail following on in smaller.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Knocker76 said:


> It
> 
> It was along the lines of ##### loves big COCKtails. It was one of those cards you get made from an online gifting company. Yep she's only had contact with him online. The thing is if it was one of our real world friends I would probably just have laughed it off. I'm not 100% but I think he one of the guys going to the meet up.


So again, if you have any hope if saving this tell her you will come with her. Her reaction will tell it all.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Knocker76 said:


> It
> 
> It was along the lines of ##### loves big COCKtails. It was one of those cards you get made from an online gifting company. Yep she's only had contact with him online. The thing is if it was one of our real world friends I would probably just have laughed it off. I'm not 100% but I think he one of the guys going to the meet up.


It's not that alarming in and of itself. Could be just some dude with more money than sense. But I do think you should just tell her you're going. I wouldn't mince any words about it. I'd say, Hey, I'm not going to sit here twiddling my thumbs while you go meet a bunch of guys you met online. I wouldn't be much of a husband if I did, would I?


----------



## Chaotic_Aquarian

This could be a potential danger for your wife, has she actually ever met any of these people like, in person? She could end up the target of a really dangerous scam.


----------



## Evinrude58

Knocker76 said:


> I honestly don't know. I've been swimming against the tide for so long now I just don't know. The real low point was coming home from work to find a bottle of prosecco and a box of sweets with a card with a sexual innuendo on it that was sent to her for her birthday.It wasn't my greatest moment and I reacted badly. Not ranting and raving but I told her I felt it was a bit inappropriate for someone to send a married woman. She just doesn't see the problem in this.


You just need to put her dune there road. As said early in this thread, when you get the I live you but not in live with you speech, just boot their ass out the door. I know you love her. She’ll just use those feelings against you. Still boot her. Chase a woman that’s not a club hopper next time.


----------



## oldshirt

BigDaddyNY said:


> So again, if you have any hope if saving this tell her you will come with her. Her reaction will tell it all.


I agree with this above. 

Tell here this line, "Y'know, I've been thinking about it, and I need to get out and this trip sounds fun. Let me get the tickets and we can hang with your friends and go out and while we are in (that city) we can also go see *__* (other tourist destination in that area)

Her reaction and her facial expressions and tone of voice etc will tell you everything you need to know.


----------



## oldshirt

Knocker76 said:


> I asked her if I was to do the same how she'd feel but she just said she wouldn't mind.


She is telling you the truth here. She wouldn't mind. 

She wouldn't mind because she has checked out of the relationship and her interests and affections are else where. 

She doesn't care.


----------



## cp3o

Knocker76 said:


> It's a WhatsApp group. You have to be in their public groups and if they like you you get a WhatsApp invite. I know who the guy is of Facebook and he has a partner himself.


How do you think the guy's partner would react if she knew what happened and that they are planning to met up?


----------



## Talker67

Knocker76 said:


> I honestly don't know. I've been swimming against the tide for so long now I just don't know. The real low point was coming home from work to find a bottle of prosecco and a box of sweets with a card with a sexual innuendo on it that was sent to her for her birthday.It wasn't my greatest moment and I reacted badly. Not ranting and raving but I told her I felt it was a bit inappropriate for someone to send a married woman. She just doesn't see the problem in this.


Garbage container would have seen both of them

would it have been too over the top to whip it out and piss on top of them too?


----------



## Talker67

so she is going on the trip anyway?
change the locks, throw her **** on the front yard under a tarp, cancel all credit cards, etc. 

she needs a rude awakening!


----------



## Anastasia6

Talker67 said:


> so she is going on the trip anyway?
> change the locks, throw her **** on the front yard under a tarp, cancel all credit cards, etc.
> 
> she needs a rude awakening!


Nice rhetoric but in most places it's illegal to do what you suggest.

And they have children that kind of break up is never appropriate for kids.


----------



## Marc878

Knocker76 said:


> It
> 
> It was along the lines of ##### loves big COCKtails. It was one of those cards you get made from an online gifting company. Yep she's only had contact with him online. The thing is if it was one of our real world friends I would probably just have laughed it off. I'm not 100% but I think he one of the guys going to the meet up.


Sounds like it’s a Meat up. Sorry but if I were you I’d have a plan.


----------



## jonty30

Knocker76 said:


> It
> 
> It was along the lines of ##### loves big COCKtails. It was one of those cards you get made from an online gifting company. Yep she's only had contact with him online. The thing is if it was one of our real world friends I would probably just have laughed it off. I'm not 100% but I think he one of the guys going to the meet up.


I don't think any real friend would have sent something like that in the first place.


----------



## Talker67

Anastasia6 said:


> Nice rhetoric but in most places it's illegal to do what you suggest.
> 
> And they have children that kind of break up is never appropriate for kids.


they have CHILDREN, and she is just taking off for the coast?

some frigin mom


----------



## Rob_1

Knocker76 said:


> She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and meet these guys and she wouldn't be cancelling this time.


Listen dude, I understand that you have kids, that you're not her dad, that you can't control what she does, and that's fine...for her; but as for you, what are you supposed to be, chopped liver? 
you're supposed to be in a marriage where you two are In agreement as to what's what and boundaries set for each other, but reading the above statement, an ultimatum, an unilateral decision by her, what does that tells you?
Are you going to just seat there, thinking WTF? no, dude, she just told you screw you, you don't count, I don't give a **** as to what you think, or what you want.

To me that's a deal breaking event for the marriage, kids or not kids, so what are you going to do? Stay there, just sucking your thumb?


----------



## Anastasia6

Talker67 said:


> they have CHILDREN, and she is just taking off for the coast?
> 
> some frigin mom


Oh she needs a wake up call. 

he needs to decide to keep her or divorce but either doing nothing isn’t an option.


----------



## Evinrude58

Knocker76 said:


> Hu Guys. I'm new here but tbh I've reached the end of my tether. I've been married to my wife for 20 years. From the 1st time I seen her I was smitten. She's my dream girl. The truth is 20 years later its all gone to hell . I'm not the most exciting guy and although I can put on a face and talk for ireland when I'm out and about the truth is I'm actually a pretty introverted guy. My wife is an outgoing woman. She loves music etc. Anyhow the long and the short is she listens to a lot of music and talks on chat rooms while she's doing it. She has met a bunch of people and they've formed a pretty tight bunch. Tbh it has caused a lot of tension and anxiety in me. Sitting there watching her giggle and chat to these guys but ignore me has ate away at me over time to the point where its became a bit of an issue . I've discussed it with her and told her that while she's having a great time I feel I've never felt so alone. At its height this went on for 7 nights a week. It's became a real issue. Last year she told me she was going to fly over and meet up with these guys. I went into full fight or flight and didn't handle things very well at all. She cancelled the trip but since then it's been really crappy. We had a massive row on Nye where I asked her to sit beside me with about 20 minutes left in the countdown. Since then things have been awful. We go into a room and hardly speak. It came to a head again the other day. She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and meet these guys and she wouldn't be cancelling this time. I feel so low I'm barely holding it together. We're not close anymore which is the worse part for me. *She says she loves me but isn't in love*. a bit of further info. This is a mixed group of men and women. A few months back I accidentally caught her send funny pictures of a sexual nature to the group. (Not of herself but memes)When I confronted her she told me it was only a bit of bantering. I asked her if I was to do the same how she'd feel but she just said she wouldn't mind.


I’m not some super tough internet commando. But after going through this before, I can promise that if a woman ever speaks those words to me, I’M GONE. That’s a bigger death knell than her saying she banged the guy in the corner office.
OP, see an attorney. Once this **** starts, it just gets worse. I’m very sorry.


----------



## Openminded

Don’t expect her to agree with you because that doesn’t suit her agenda.


----------



## A18S37K14H18

Knocker76 said:


> She's my dream girl.


She USED to be your dream girl.

If she still is your dream girl, then you've dreamt of having a partner who does this to you and I know that's not what you've dreamt about.

I get it, this sucks, big time. You don't want this, you're hurting. I've been in your shoes, I (like many others on this site) have been betrayed.

You need to deal with reality. You aren't doing that right now and it will bite you in the azz... HARD.


----------



## Talker67

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m not some super tough internet commando. But after going through this before, I can promise that if a woman ever speaks those words to me, I’M GONE. That’s a bigger death knell than her saying she banged the guy in the corner office.
> OP, see an attorney. Once this **** starts, it just gets worse. I’m very sorry.


imagine her attitude AFTER she comes back from a week of banging these random music dudes and doing drugs!

"Hey kids, mommy is home!"


I have seen this attitude in women before, the "you don't own me, you can't tell me what to do" as they are walking out the door to do some really questionable stuff! Usually they are screaming at some guy that gives them all sorts of freedom to do whatever they want, in their job, in their friends, in the things they do. Yet...for some reason, it is not enough for them. the grass is always greener on some other guy's lawn.

you can only bend over backwards to please them so much. at some point things go snap, and you wake up as a guy and say "alright, enough is enough. I ain't putting up with this **** anymore"


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## Talker67

Marc878 said:


> Sounds like it’s a Meat up. Sorry but if I were you I’d have a plan.


i see what you did there.


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## Talker67

Anastasia6 said:


> Nice rhetoric but in most places it's illegal to do what you suggest.
> 
> And they have children that kind of break up is never appropriate for kids.


is it illegal? 
specifically what laws are being broken? 
i can see that her lawyer would claim that she needs to be in the home, but your lawyer would claim she is detrimental to the children, being a poor mom for going on solo trips to visit other men.


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## manwithnoname

Anastasia6 said:


> So the divorce her crew wins this round.


Interesting that you think it's a competition. 

There are many who recommend divorce because the particular situation is beyond repair in their view. 

I don't think there is anyone on here that has a default "divorce her" view.


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## jonty30

Anastasia6 said:


> Well not sure how you can react badly. Meaning yes you should have been upset. So not being happy would not be reacting badly it would be normal. Now physical violence or throwing things would be bad.
> 
> Sound like someone is being inappropriate. I'm assuming this gift was from a man and not a joke from a fellow female (though that doesn't mean it isn't inappropriate).
> 
> Sounds like she is having an emotional affair and if she goes in person it will be a physical affair.
> 
> Chances are the writing is on the wall and there isn't any point.
> 
> So the divorce her crew wins this round.
> 
> Does she even want to be in the marriage?


A divorce should be standard when a wayward spouse leaves the marriage to gallyvant. Only after the divorce, if the WS spouse is willing to change, should a reconciliation take place.

Word of the day: gallyvant.


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## Talker67

jonty30 said:


> A divorce should be standard when a wayward spouse leaves the marriage to gallyvant. Only after the divorce, if the WS spouse is willing to change, should a reconciliation take place.
> 
> Word of the day: gallyvant.












Yes, she has Gone Walkabout


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## plastow

Knocker76 said:


> Hu Guys. I'm new here but tbh I've reached the end of my tether. I've been married to my wife for 20 years. From the 1st time I seen her I was smitten. She's my dream girl. The truth is 20 years later its all gone to hell . I'm not the most exciting guy and although I can put on a face and talk for ireland when I'm out and about the truth is I'm actually a pretty introverted guy. My wife is an outgoing woman. She loves music etc. Anyhow the long and the short is she listens to a lot of music and talks on chat rooms while she's doing it. She has met a bunch of people and they've formed a pretty tight bunch. Tbh it has caused a lot of tension and anxiety in me. Sitting there watching her giggle and chat to these guys but ignore me has ate away at me over time to the point where its became a bit of an issue . I've discussed it with her and told her that while she's having a great time I feel I've never felt so alone. At its height this went on for 7 nights a week. It's became a real issue. Last year she told me she was going to fly over and meet up with these guys. I went into full fight or flight and didn't handle things very well at all. She cancelled the trip but since then it's been really crappy. We had a massive row on Nye where I asked her to sit beside me with about 20 minutes left in the countdown. Since then things have been awful. We go into a room and hardly speak. It came to a head again the other day. She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and meet these guys and she wouldn't be cancelling this time. I feel so low I'm barely holding it together. We're not close anymore which is the worse part for me. She says she loves me but isn't in love. a bit of further info. This is a mixed group of men and women. A few months back I accidentally caught her send funny pictures of a sexual nature to the group. (Not of herself but memes)When I confronted her she told me it was only a bit of bantering. I asked her if I was to do the same how she'd feel but she just said she wouldn't mind.


ask her how she would feel if you were going to meet up with females you had only met online and that you felt strongly enough to leave your husband to go to.


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## plastow

Knocker76 said:


> Also the only reason I did it is I actually don't know any of these people and she only knows them from online interaction.


more reason to go with her as neither of you knows what she will be walking into even if its ok will she be safe.


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## MarmiteC

I read a few things here:
1. you both used to enjoy the clubbing and music scene. Her love for this has not changed and she has found another outlet for it (online) during the pandemic, you have not and instead you have taken the opportunity to enjoy a different way of life.
2. She received a gift and a card which you feel is inappropriate, but she did not hide it from you. It was in plain sight.
3. She says she loves you but is not in love with you anymore.
4. She plans to meet up with a group (male & female) that she connected with online.

With these small pieces of information it seems like you may have grown apart. And I don't underestimate the impact of the pandemic and the UK lockdowns on this. It sounds like you two have disconnected and that something you used to do together is no longer common ground. The further you 2 push apart the greater the pull of this other group on her. 

I do agree it's inappropriate for her to go and meet this group without you, even if she has innocent intentions, it's unlikely that can be said for ALL other members of this group. At this stage I don't read anything indicating that she has or is planning a one on one meet up with a member of the group (that's not to say she's not, but I don't read it here yet), but the longer you 2 remain opposed it wouldn't surprise me if she grows closer to someone else.

Nightclubs and things are opening again in the UK (for the vaccinated at least I think). Have you discussed with her if she's interested in going back to nightclubs? Have you offered to? Based on what I think I've read so far I see you need to try reconnecting again, and with the RL world. That's been mentally tough on many during the lockdowns. I personally still struggle with that now, even though I have gone to work every single day throughout this, I'm now uncomfortable in busy places.


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## Anastasia6

manwithnoname said:


> Interesting that you think it's a competition.
> 
> There are many who recommend divorce because the particular situation is beyond repair in their view.
> 
> I don't think there is anyone on here that has a default "divorce her" view.


I don't see it as a competition. That is a colloquialism.

And yes there are many that the default view is divorce her.


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## jonty30

Anastasia6 said:


> I don't see it as a competition. That is a colloquialism.
> 
> And yes there are many that the default view is divorce her.


However, there are those of us, while we still believe in divorce as a penalty for infidelity, are not against reconciliation if the WS is willing to do the work to fix themselves and show they are willing to do the work. They need that penalty and the chance to earn themselves into good graces again.


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## Anastasia6

jonty30 said:


> However, there are those of us, while we still believe in divorce as a penalty for infidelity, are not against reconciliation if the WS is willing to do the work to fix themselves and show they are willing to do the work. They need that penalty and the chance to earn themselves into good graces again.


Yep so that's my point. There is a divorce crew. Divorce no matter what. And that's fine. I never said you can't have that opinion and express it. In fact I told OP that if he wanted to hear words as such that people would be along to tell him just that.

Before the gift come along I wasn't sure if OP wife was simply disengaged or what. I agree that it appears she is in an emotional affair. Of course right now there is no proof of that either. So we are stepping in saying oh treat her like there is a full physical affair.... Seems a little over kill. 

However please note that when I said the divorce crew wins, I meant I was joining that view. She is checked out and not in love. Very hard to come back from that.


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## jonty30

Anastasia6 said:


> Yep so that's my point. There is a divorce crew. Divorce no matter what. And that's fine. I never said you can't have that opinion and express it. In fact I told OP that if he wanted to hear words as such that people would be along to tell him just that.
> 
> Before the gift come along I wasn't sure if OP wife was simply disengaged or what. I agree that it appears she is in an emotional affair. Of course right now there is no proof of that either. So we are stepping in saying oh treat her like there is a full physical affair.... Seems a little over kill.
> 
> However please note that when I said the divorce crew wins, I meant I was joining that view. She is checked out and not in love. Very hard to come back from that.


I understand what you meant by the divorce crew now. 
I had misunderstood you. I thought you meant that some were being too hard by suggesting a divorce.


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## SunCMars

jonty30 said:


> I don't think any real friend would have sent something like that in the first place.


Only a male friend who did not graduate 9th grade would send such a card.



_L-_


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## SunCMars

The fact that she saw nothing inappropriate with the gift and the card, shows she is thumbing her nose at our Knocker poster.

She blew off Knockers concerns, and she did it sober, not Knackered.

The other man sealed Knockers suspicions, and steeled our posters resolve.

His wife sealed the divorce plan, she signed off in her unconcerned, cold blood.

She is one of those "_in your face_" rebellious wives.

Knocker needs to knock her off her cushy pedestal, and give her a one-way ticket to the _Glas Eire._


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## jonty30

SunCMars said:


> The fact that she saw nothing inappropriate with the gift and the card, shows she is thumbing her nose at our Knocker poster.
> 
> She blew off Knockers concerns, and she did it sober, not Knackered.
> 
> The other man sealed Knockers suspicions, and steeled our posters resolve.
> 
> His wife sealed the divorce plan, she signed off in her unconcerned, cold blood.
> 
> She is one of those "_in your face_" rebellious wives.
> 
> Knocker needs to knock her off her cushy pedestal, and give her a one-way ticket to the _Glas Eire._
> 
> View attachment 82314


That's a nice place. Scotland is so nice in many ways.
I just need a lottery win and I'm Scottish.


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## Talker67

plastow said:


> more reason to go with her as neither of you knows what she will be walking into even if its ok will she be safe.


maybe he is not into watching other guys plow his wife.


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## Talker67

SunCMars said:


> The fact that she saw nothing inappropriate with the gift and the card, shows she is thumbing her nose at our Knocker poster.
> 
> She blew off Knockers concerns, and she did it sober, not Knackered.
> 
> The other man sealed Knockers suspicions, and steeled our posters resolve.
> 
> His wife sealed the divorce plan, she signed off in her unconcerned, cold blood.
> 
> She is one of those "_in your face_" rebellious wives.
> 
> Knocker needs to knock her off her cushy pedestal, and give her a one-way ticket to the _Glas Eire._
> 
> View attachment 82314


One of the rare sunny days?


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## SunCMars

Talker67 said:


> One of the rare sunny days?


Yes, for sure! 

May is often touted as the sunniest month.


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## Talker67

SunCMars said:


> Yes, for sure!
> 
> May is often touted as the sunniest month.


Good to know!


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## Evinrude58

jonty30 said:


> However, there are those of us, while we still believe in divorce as a penalty for infidelity, are not against reconciliation if the WS is willing to do the work to fix themselves and show they are willing to do the work. They need that penalty and the chance to earn themselves into good graces again.


Yeah, my default setting for infidelity abd I don’t believe a person can ever earn their way back in good graces. People that believe that are contributing to their cheating spouse’s flawed view of entitlement to “another chance”.


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## David60525

Yp


Knocker76 said:


> Hu Guys. I'm new here but tbh I've reached the end of my tether. I've been married to my wife for 20 years. From the 1st time I seen her I was smitten. She's my dream girl. The truth is 20 years later its all gone to hell . I'm not the most exciting guy and although I can put on a face and talk for ireland when I'm out and about the truth is I'm actually a pretty introverted guy. My wife is an outgoing woman. She loves music etc. Anyhow the long and the short is she listens to a lot of music and talks on chat rooms while she's doing it. She has met a bunch of people and they've formed a pretty tight bunch. Tbh it has caused a lot of tension and anxiety in me. Sitting there watching her giggle and chat to these guys but ignore me has ate away at me over time to the point where its became a bit of an issue . I've discussed it with her and told her that while she's having a great time I feel I've never felt so alone. At its height this went on for 7 nights a week. It's became a real issue. Last year she told me she was going to fly over and meet up with these guys. I went into full fight or flight and didn't handle things very well at all. She cancelled the trip but since then it's been really crappy. We had a massive row on Nye where I asked her to sit beside me with about 20 minutes left in the countdown. Since then things have been awful. We go into a room and hardly speak. It came to a head again the other day. She blurted out that she had paid for a trip to go and meet these guys and she wouldn't be cancelling this time. I feel so low I'm barely holding it together. We're not close anymore which is the worse part for me. She says she loves me but isn't in love. a bit of further info. This is a mixed group of men and women. A few months back I accidentally caught her send funny pictures of a sexual nature to the group. (Not of herself but memes)When I confronted her she told me it was only a bit of bantering. I asked her if I was to do the same how she'd feel but she just said she wouldn't mind.


++

You both can be and ignite the fire again.. 
Read all books by John Gottman phd. he has a title named just what you asked. theb read dr. laura schlessingers book Proper care and feeding of marriage. You will not be disappointed. OH. listen on You Tube all by esther perell.
good luck


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## BigDaddyNY

@Knocker76 How's it going? Have you told your wife that you want to go with her yet?


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## Knocker76

BigDaddyNY said:


> @Knocker76 How's it going? Have you told your wife that you want to go with her yet?


I'm working up to it. I'm trying to gather up a certain sum of cash money and get all my ducks into a row before I start making some moves.


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## manwithnoname

Anastasia6 said:


> I don't see it as a competition. That is a colloquialism.
> 
> And yes there are many that the default view is divorce her.


The default view is divorce when certain lines are crossed, whether it's EA, PA, no sex etc. 

Otherwise, if what you say is true, the "divorce crew" will recommend divorce if someone comes on here and says their wife snores, or something like that.


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## Knocker76

Knocker76 said:


> I'm working up to it. I'm trying to gather up a certain sum of cash money and get all my ducks into a row before I start making some moves.


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## BigDaddyNY

@Knocker76 What's going on? Are you making the trip with your wife?


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## Knocker76

BigDaddyNY said:


> @Knocker76 What's going on? Are you making the trip with your wife?


Sorry I'm only getting back now. Things are still frosty but I've given her a few home truths so she's in the middle of processing it lol. The war chest is still building up nicely using all of the money I used to spend on her for lunches out etc. I used to fill her car with fuel every week but that's been cut down to every second week and I've asked her to start helping with household bills etc which I think is only fair.if she wants a housemate then that's what she'll get from now on. As for the trip. If she goes then that's us completely finished. I've stopped panicking and have got a grip on my emotions a bit better . By that time I'll have the necessary fees for a lawyer gathered up.


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## Katch22

@Knocker76, what's the latest update? I tried to send you a conversation, but I don't seem to have the credentials to do so.


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## Robert22205

Why does an online male contact (a man who she's never met) have her address?
There clearly is more than an interest in music.

Your wife may not intend to cheat - but she's enjoying his attention (probably makes her feel young again). She's placing herself in a situation where it will be very tempting. Plus she doesn't really know any of these people. Just the image they project online.

Flirting on line is not harmless. Studies show that texting triggers the same parts of the brain as face to face contact. It's found to build a false but strong emotional bond/connection with a stranger. A bond that can quickly escalate to adultery if they meet.

You both should read: NOT JUST FRIENDS by Dr Shirley Glass. 

It's based on a study of couples (good people) that experienced infidelity (how and why and what they could have done to prevent it). 

It's a good solid starting point for discussing her online 'friends'.


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## Kamstel2

It’s been a while since we’ve heard from you.

hope you are doing well.
Hang in there and do what is right for you 

Good luck


----------

