# MEN: Was I Wrong?



## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

I was laying in bed with my boyfriend Sunday night feeling rejected when he didnt attempt to iniate sex with me like he said he intented to earlier in the night, and after he pushed me off of him after I iniated a "I want you kiss (he just wanted me to hold him, I always hold him, why cant he hold me after putting me to sleep the right way)... when his phone went off.
He didnt hear it and I was upset, so I opened the text. It was from a woman that I already do not trust. It read: My tailbone is feeling better, I made my bed all by myself. I just love fresh new sheets, I know you do too, right? Still smiling. Going to eagles tomorrow. Night.
I am furious. Why was she texting him at 12:30am, why did she ask him about liking new sheets too, and what was she smiling about? I stewed for 30 minutes the I woke him up and asked him what the hell that was about. He told me it was nothing, that she had broke her tailbone and when he had been over there working that he had helped he make her bed because it had been painful for he to do. He said that everyone that knew him new he loved new sheets, that it was an innocent comment and that she was always smiling.
I was in tears, he could understand that to me it was inappropiate for his customer to be texting him at 12:30 am. He just dismissed my feelings completely, then he held me and told me to stop being so jealous and go to sleep.
Well the next morning, he makes a big deal about getting me out of bed, he makes breakfast and proceeds to go to work. I hang out and watch tv, he comes in and out almost agaitated but never says anything. Around 1pm I decide to leave because Im bored. I tell him Im gone, and drive off. I get halfway done the road and decide that I need to something nice for him and I pick up so lunch and head back to his place. I walk back in and he is already amking lunch and looks almost irrated that Im there. Then he tells me that he dont like surprises and I should have called before just coming back with food. I quietly sit down and eat my lunch and choke back tears from the tension in the room. I could feel him staring at me and I felt truly unwanted. (In a later arguement how he cant stand anyone but his dughter laying around his house when he is working, and that when he gets up that I should be up and on my way home. He says I have a bad habit of basically overstaying my welcome and he cant go to work when I there. This really hurts my feelings I just want to spend as much time with him as possible.)I finish my lunch and I decide I will just leave. I mutter good-bye and he asks me to come back and kiss him. He says I love you and quietly mutter the same, then I hurry to my car and drive away in tears. When I arrive at my house 35 miles away, he texts me that he loves me and misses me already and he may see me later. I text that I love him too and go inside to relax. I end up taking a nap and when I awake I have two missed calls and voicemails from him. The voicemails say to call him back I do, but no anwer. So an hour later I call him no answer, another hour, same thing. I send him a negative text message. I call again, no answer. By this time Im furiously blowing up his phone, no answer. I send another text and bed down for the night. When I get up I have a missed call from him, saying that he cant believe I texted myself into an arguement.
I call him, he proceeds to tell me that my negative text messages made him not even want to talk to me. I asked him why he ignored my calls and he tells me it wasnt intentional. He was at a concert with the women who text him the night before.
I was silent. He tells me that she called and asked him to go, he tried to call me I didnt answer the phone so he went ahead and went. He was going to call me afterwards, but the negative text led him to believe there was going to be an arguement, so he just went to bed. 
I heard him, but I was not happy with this woman who was just supposed to be his customer texting him in the am hours and asking him on dates. I did explain this to him but he dismissed my feelings as me being insecure and jealous. So, I after hanging up with him I decided to try another approach. I called her. When she picked up the phone, I asked her if she had feelings for my boyfriend... her response was she didnt want to discuss this with me. I really expected more of a yes or no answer, or a laugh or a why would you think that. Instead I had another person dismissing my feelings. 
I called and let him know I called her, he didnt seem upset initially, but come nightfall he was livid. He told me I was threatening his livelyhood and that I had no right to call his customer. I seen it as she had crossed the line of just being a customer and he had let her so I didnt see why I could address her about it. We began to argue horridly to the point were he has said it is over. He says he cant have someone in his life so jealous and insecure and trying to interfer with his business, his livelyhood.
I dont understand why he cant see my position in this at all: He is going places, and getting text messages, from the same woman who stayed the night at his house in his bed 11 months ago. If she is just the customer why is there all this boundrary crossing? 
His position is: He has never had sex with, touched, kissed, or held hands with this woman, he has never wanted her, doesnt want her now, and wont want her 10 years from now, we dont live together anymore and he can have who he wants at his house (although no instances like that have happened since) that he is a grown man and he can hang out with who he wants to, that Im not happy unless Im a part of every aspect of his life, that Im suddenly jealous and insecure when I wasnt in the beginning, and that he loves me and only me so I so just trust him.

I know I was wrong for reading his text message but was I wrong for calling her too? Why doesnt he think her texting him in the am hours is inappropiate? Apologies dont mean anything to him, but if you feel I was wrong should I apologize to her or just leave her alone? If I am to apologize do I call her and say it, say it in a card, offer to buy her lunch? 

Also, have been trying to talk to him about this for days and we just end up arguing. I have a serious problem with him ignoring my calls, I will let it go for a while, but when he doesnt return my calls, in the amount of time I think is appropiate, I blow up his phone until he angrily answers or turns it off. Also when he says something that really hurts me, I want him to feel as bad as I do so I make empty threats that I will never go through with, which will probably be why he wont answer my calls when the sun comes up and once again we have a sour note.

I know I dont sound like much of a peach after reading all of that, but I just figure the more honest I am here perhaps the more light can be shed on the particular situation. We have a series of issues, but I figure one thing at a time.

I want things to work, and he said he wanted things to work. If I change my actions or my reactions will that help the relationship healing began or does he have to be changing his actions and reactions too?

I havent been able to go one day without calling him, cause I really want to talk this out, but maybe I should wait a few days for things to calm down and call him. Do I admit to him that I would never go through was those threats, that I just do it out of anger, or will that cause more problems?
How do I let him know he cant treat me any kind of way without threatning him.

Im sorry this post is so long and there are so many questions but I need the help. Thanks in advance.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

No, you weren't wrong. 

He's hiding something and making you feel like the one responsible. 

TOW crossed the line a long time ago. You are not affecting his livelyhood at all. TOW however is (tell his boss and see what happens!). 

Texxting at that time is totally inappropriate. 

If he wanted to go to a concert, he should have asked you. He'll say he went with TOW because he wants to keep her business. Yeah, right. 

I'd say that it's past time for you to really re-evaluate whether you want to be with this jerk any longer. 

Communication is critical to any relationship and he's not communicating. In fact, he's hiding things. Maybe testing the waters or playing the field a bit before settling down. I wouldn't want him to "settle" for me.


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

dcrim said:


> No, you weren't wrong.
> 
> ...(tell his boss and see what happens!).
> 
> ...


I think I may have cause some confusion, he is his boss. He is self empoyled and and has been doing home projects for this woman.
He actually didnt say that he went out with her to keep her business, but I too dont feel like I threatened his livileyhood. 
Maybe youre right, maybe I have been holding on too long. I just really thought we could get back to the beginning. I dont know why I still want to try.

Thank you for your reply. I hope you guys will keep them coming, I really am in need of insight.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

You weren't totally wrong, but that absolutely does not mean you were totally RIGHT either.

Some people HATE being expected to pick up the phone the instant it rings. Its entirely possible he didn't hear the phone, and then a few hours later he returns to a string of angry texts/messages. That is ALSO a boundaries issue.

There is no point in assigning blame here though. I know you want to be told that you were absolutely reasonable and he is being insensitive, but that is just not the case. 

You will make much more progress focusing on how you acted/reacted, because at the end of the day, that is something you CAN change. You have absolute power over your OWN behavior.

Dr. Phil loves to say "do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy". There is merit to that attitude. At what cost is it worth being "right"? You don't have to be "right" and he doesn't have to be "wrong" in order for you to work thins out.

Best of luck.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

no, I disagree! She was right! He's hiding things! She needs to pursue the issue and find out the problem!


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

Chopblock said:


> You weren't totally wrong, but that absolutely does not mean you were totally RIGHT either.
> 
> Some people HATE being expected to pick up the phone the instant it rings. Its entirely possible he didn't hear the phone, and then a few hours later he returns to a string of angry texts/messages. That is ALSO a boundaries issue.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead: Im not sure that you read the entire post, perhaps because it was too long, but we arent arguing over the phone calls or him picking up the phone. 
My questions were centered around the 12:30am text message, me calling her, and his reaction to that. I simply asked if I was wrong, and if so/not how could I talk with him about this situation so that he at least understands where Im coming from and we can move foward. 
All woman do not just assume everything is their mans fault.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

he's nailing the tailbone girl.

very simple answer.

if you don't want to be a part of the stable then, filly, move on.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

---I simply asked if I was wrong, and if so/not how could I talk with him about this situation so that he at least understands where Im coming from and we can move foward.---

I answered your question, it just wasn't the answer you wanted. I wouldn't be a very good advice giver if I just willy-nilly agreed with everything you said. I have watched too many people ruin perfectly good relationships by being too suspicious and/or jealous.

---All woman do not just assume everything is their mans fault.---

Neither are all men cheating just because they have female acquaintances.

Again, I'm simply saying that NEITHER of you acted blamelessly. I'm asking you to take a different approach than just plain "right or wrong". You identified SEVERAL things you did that were not the best course of action. You admitted reading his text wasn't right, you admitted that the way you argued wasn't right.

Just points to ponder.


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

Chopblock said:


> ---I simply asked if I was wrong, and if so/not how could I talk with him about this situation so that he at least understands where Im coming from and we can move foward.---
> 
> I answered your question, it just wasn't the answer you wanted. I wouldn't be a very good advice giver if I just willy-nilly agreed with everything you said. I have watched too many people ruin perfectly good relationships by being too suspicious and/or jealous.
> 
> ...


Whoa... I never accused him of cheating I said, I felt that his interaction with his "customer" was inappropiate and not condusive to our relationship. 
What way did I want the queston to be answered, because you seem to have predetermined my entire mindset...
The answer that you gave seem to be focused on entirely on an issue that I wasnt inquiring about, so the helpfulness seems to be lost upon me. 
I was a lurker on the boards before becoming a member and your posts and those of MarkTwain and Gasoccerman? usually brought me to a point of insight. However, your responses here seem to be coming from a rather assumptious venue.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

I think you were right it trying to figure out what was going on. As a man, he's doing one of two things:

1.) He's hiding something (cheating) and re-directing blame at you as a defense (you're too jealous, I didn't want an argument, etc. etc. etc.)

2.) He's trying to control you and purposely trying to piss you off since you started to get worried about TOW. He's trying to exert his manly manliness in that "She isn't going to tell me what to do" and "I'll show her!!!" type of thing...


If I just had to guess, IMHO, it's #1, but I obviously don't know all the details...

Now, reading his text was an honest mistake. Calling her, after the information you already had, is fine. 

I will say that you blowing his phone up all the time isn't going to get you anywhere with him. All it will do is piss him off more. Maybe that's what you want. But if you are trying to talk to him, trying to work things out, this is just pissing him off and pushing him further away.


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

GPR said:


> I think you were right it trying to figure out what was going on. As a man, he's doing one of two things:
> 
> 1.) He's hiding something (cheating) and re-directing blame at you as a defense (you're too jealous, I didn't want an argument, etc. etc. etc.)
> 
> ...


Youre right, blowing up his phone is counterproductive to getting him to talk about this.
I actually copy and pasted one of the articles from this forum and sent it to him along with a email of what I think of the current status of our relationship.
Both of them seemed to have helped, because when I called he answered the phone with an inviting tone. We talked, we both expressed our feelings without yelling at each other or trying to push the others buttons. As It turns out it is half of #1 and half of #2, he does tend to have a strong tendency to blame others in effort to avoid verbally apologizing, he just prefer to just move on ....and he is always so admant about people telling him what to do...especially women. 
He thinks if you do something a woman ask you to do (but he percieves it as telling) then you are just setting up a vicious cycle for her to attempt to control your life. I think this notion derived from the 12 years with the ex-wife, and having his married friends come over and complain about how their wives talk down to them and treat them like a handy man with penis.
I want a healthy happy relationship now, and a healthy happy marriage later. I think we both have trust issues, that do not stem from infedelity so in some ways it has made them harder to overcome. 
We did go to counseling at his request, but he felt like the woman was more concerned about her watch than us, so we didnt return. So, I hope that I can use the insight from this board to rebulid a stronger foundation between us. Im learning that he doesnt really hear me when we talk, but writing him seems to have an affect. 
Im going to come up with ways I can control my blowing up his phone ignorance, because I havent yet aquired the perservence to just not do it.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

I think a lot of your problems are due to his Alpha male personality. He likes to exert his dominance on things, and you of course try to stand up to him when he does that, so it becomes a pissing contest to see who's going to break first. 

You: "He better answer that damn phone!!! I'm just going to keep calling until that A-Hole picks up the damn phone!!!!"

Him: "Screw her, if she thinks that by calling non stop is going to get me to answer that damn phone, she's got another thing coming!!!!!"


But I have a feeling it's not just the phone, that this is a microcosm of other parts of your relationship. 

You need to learn that with this type of man, there are easier ways to get what you want. And that giving into some of his little "manliness" things isn't always bad. Think of it as losing a battle in order to win the war. Sacrificing a pawn so to speak. It's not that it's fair, but until you can get things worked out, it might be the best means to an end here. 

And if writing helps, use that!!! As a man, it's easier to read something and have it register. And from what you described of him, he hears one thing that "challenges" him, and he's already thinking about how to get you back, and the rest of what you are saying doesn't register. When you aren't there, and he's just reading, he's left alone with what you are saying, and no one to lash back at, and he has a lot of time to think rather than just "returning fire" so to speak....


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

GPR said:


> I think a lot of your problems are due to his Alpha male personality. He likes to exert his dominance on things, and you of course try to stand up to him when he does that, so it becomes a pissing contest to see who's going to break first.
> 
> You: "He better answer that damn phone!!! I'm just going to keep calling until that A-Hole picks up the damn phone!!!!"
> 
> ...


:iagree: Wow, If I didnt know any better I would think that you have been watching our relationship from the beginning of the downfall. I do find myself standing up for myself many times, out of fear of being run over/blindsided by him. So really we are both doing the same thing and essentially getting nowhere. Thank you, thank you, thank you, I can not tell you how that reply really helped. You truly hit the nail on the head.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

Glad I could help...

Do you guys do a lot of "one-upping" when arguing?

Well, you talked to that girl.... Well, you kept calling, Well you did this... etc. etc. etc. to try to show that the other party did something worse than you, or why the wrong thing you did was justified because the other person did something "more wrong"?

Try to take the focus of the "Who did What" and figure out the "Why's" and "How to fix it's". 

Next time he does something, when you confront him about it, tell him what it was, then WHY it hurt or why it was wrong. If he throws something back at you, trying acknowledging it, apologizing.... Then come back to what your problem was.

Like: "Well, you kept freaking calling my phone"

You say: "You know what, you're right. I shouldn't be blowing your phone up like that. Sorry, I'll try not to do it anymore............ But I was hurt by you going to that girl to the concert......"

With these "Alpha Male" types, they put of the defenses fast, ready to fire back, so sometimes (key word: sometimes) if you just make a small concession in the beginning when they mount their first "return attack", it will take them off their guard. They get to be right about something, so they bring down the defenses a little bit, and are more likely to come back with some reasonable thoughts afterwards. Like I said, lose a small battle to win the war. And I don't mean "Winning the Argument", I mean actually making some progress in the communication here.


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

GPR said:


> Glad I could help...
> 
> Do you guys do a lot of "one-upping" when arguing?
> 
> ...


There is alot of one-upping in our arguements. Most of the one-upping is us bringing up past issues. I would love to just bury the hatchet about certain things but when he decides to rehash old moments with a series of ommissons to make it look more innocent that it was, I find myself reminding him that he isnt telling the whole truth. He tends to do this with when he is with particular friends. It really does hurt me becausre its like he has to make it look like I made more out of the situation than it was. 
I dont really know why he feels it neccessary to bring up these topics or downgrade me in general in front of his friends. Mainly one in particular. 
I guess my question is now how do we not keep rehashing old issues, and when he does do it in front of his friends do I ignore it completely, or is there a way to address this without it becoming an arguement? Arrgh, I just hate people thinking untrue things about me, but I guess I shouldnt care... Where is the relationship manual?


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

Out of curiosity, how do these things normally get brought up?

Him putting you down is a bunch of crap. But the bigger problem is that these things come up in the first place. This may just be me, but those aspects of a marriage aren't for the public ears. Even if they are friends. 

What have you done in the past, both in front of the friends or afterwards?


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

Well, we arent married but still its not beneficial for our realtionship in general.
The conversations with his friends usually go something like, they dicuss women as a general whole, then bad mouth the ones they are, with in his case me. Then he will say something like "She <me>is jealous and insecure for no reason, I aint never kissed that woman, touched her, ****ed her or even thought about it, she just came by here to use the internet, it was no big deal, she just mad for no reason." (He cusses alot I tried to leave that out)
I find my self pissed off and hurt by two things: that he doesnt see an issue with the fact this woman spent the night in bed with him, and that he attempts to downplay the sitution in front of people, while attempting to portray me as jealous by nature.
He believes that because there was no sex or sexual contact then its no problem and I would have felt the same way if this was one of his long time friends, whom I met and knew had no attraction to him. However this was a woman that I only know in words not in person, who is single, and wasnt intoxicicated or ill that he could have asked to leave or something. 
I dont know if emotional affair is the right word, but it was emotionally painful to me. 
He has apologized but in the same breath he says that it didnt matter to him that she spent the night or not. So I have felt to this day that those apologies dont hold water, if he thinks that way. 
Does the person have to understand what they did was wrong in order to be apologetic, or is the apology stable without that?
::Sighs:: We are both tired of fighting about this but when it comes up, there we are again.
I want to be completely done bringing up old stuff, but it seems inevitable that he will bring up something, not as an arguement but just in conversation but Im like why...Why are you going there, then the one-upping begins...you did this, well you did this all stuff that isnt even a part of our 09 chapter. 
So do I bite my tounge and ignore it and pray that I dont resent him later, or is there something constructive I can say to end those conversations before they begin?


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

Well in the midst of writing that I thought of something and called him.
I explained to him that I was tired of arguing and that he has said he was tired of aruging too. So I asked him if we could agree that we wouldnt argue about anything that wasnt pertaining to day we were in and he said "That would be lovely."
I would love to get that in writing but, Im just going to take him at his word and do my absolute best not to regress if he slips up and pray I can hold fast to this mutual agreement as well.
One day at time. 
Im going to read as much as I can on this site and improve more on me, so I can be a better version of me.
Hopefully we can build a strong enough foundation to get to marriage 5 years from now. 
I still welcome insight though.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

That's definitely a good start. Definitely hold him to that. 

He probably does it to try to prove to you that it was nothing. It's a stupid way of going about it, but I can see it being that way.

Good luck. Hope this little agreement will help you out going forward.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

> My tailbone is feeling better, I made my bed all by myself. I just love fresh new sheets, I know you do too, right? Still smiling. Going to eagles tomorrow. Night.


Having gone through this wringer myself, including being lied to - about phone conversations and text messages and the nature of a 'relationship'; I'm telling you - he's cheating. And even if he isn't cheating on you, which he is ... this relationship is only going to bring you more pain. Let it go. Find better. Be happy.


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

Deejo said:


> Having gone through this wringer myself, including being lied to - about phone conversations and text messages and the nature of a 'relationship'; I'm telling you - he's cheating. And even if he isn't cheating on you, which he is ... this relationship is only going to bring you more pain. Let it go. Find better. Be happy.


I am deeply sorry that you experienced such a relationship, I really hope that you obtain the love that you would like to have.

As far as my dear boyfriend goes, I know he isnt cheating. He has been insensitve, unaware, stubborn, and down right hurtful sometimes but he isnt cheating.
While I do feel the nature of there relationship is inappropiate and eventhough he doesnt see that, I cannot spend time being mad about it because in the end I still will not achieve the desired result. My desired result if for us to be genuinely happy, which meant we trusted each other in all situations.
I am aware that she has feelings for him and he has told me that he has zero interest in her. Now I can spend all day, and night accusing him of cheating or I can listen and better us as a whole.
I had to sit down and really realize somethings to myself. He isnt attracted to this woman, but she does have attractive qualities: she smiles all the time (something I do not do enough around him) she cooks and offers him leftovers to take home (Although we dont live together, I fail to cook consistently when we are together, its always him or us going out to eat) when he is working at her home and he has his daughter she takes the iniative to do things with her or for an outing so she isnt just twiddling her thumbs (When the three of us are together it seems to go bust everytime because I cant get past the notion she has bratty behavior) and she is several years older than him, single in a nice home (more like an estate) takes trips solo to places like Australia, which comes across as extremly independant to him. (He does see me as independant but he also thinks that I desire to spend every waking moment with him ie.clingy, which isnt true but if it is his perception there is a reason).
These all things I realized just a few days ago, that he had been telling me in so many words when he began working over there again last year. I just was too busy focusing on the wrong things and not hearing what he was really trying to say.
There was a point and time where could both talk about anything with each other openly, I want that back and I know he would love to feel like he could mention this ladys name without me thinking of burning him with a bowl of hot grits.
Im going to work on gaining more of those attractive qualities back so that the amount of time around her slowly decipates. If I learn to always redirect the focus, it wont matter what woman it, she will be attractive, but she wont be the all around package, that will be me.


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## flipflopchic (Jan 28, 2009)

michzz said:


> he's nailing the tailbone girl.
> 
> very simple answer.
> 
> if you don't want to be a part of the stable then, filly, move on.


:iagree:


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## HoneyMoonMIA (Jan 24, 2009)

flipflopchic said:


> :iagree:


:wtf: Did you two come up with this "insightful" answer yourselves or did someone take the time to help you?


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## Me9020 (Feb 3, 2009)

The story is so sad but so common. Don't let anyone to control you. It's time to leave the house for a period and think about that relation. Buy yourself something, maybe a cookie gift packages and forget about it. You seems to be really sweet girl. He doesn't worth your sadness.


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## kirkster5 (Sep 23, 2008)

I have to agree that he is at least cheating on you in an emotional way. The behavior you describe from her is that of someone who wants your man(or is having him). Him not cutting off the contact or at least making very clear boundries as to it being only a working relationship is prof to you that he enjoyes the attention and that is not healthy. It is also a warning sign. I think what you are hearing from those of use who think that he may be cheating on you is "the red flags are flying here" dont back down. You will need to insist that he makes a decision either he ceases texting/(dating)going to concerts/flirting with this woman etc. or you will cease contact with him. The seeds of an affair have at least allready been planted please be careful.


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