# Boundaries



## Why Bother (Apr 26, 2019)

So WH was given a boundary he calls it an ultimatum. He was working on a vacant apartment above a restraunt. It closes at 3 Mon-Wed. He says he wants to work on his marriage. So I respomded with I need to know that he does not return to this place and him and her be there together. If he could not stay away from her then the conxequence is he needs to move out. 

Come to find out he was back there the day before I said anything about no contact.

So 10,days after this discussion he calls me in front of his co worker. Saying he has to go by there and repair a leaky roof. That he was coming by the house to get a ladder and so I would know thst nothing was going on I could Go with him and his coworker ( lookout). The last time I was there his AP started an argument with me because I caught them together. She went anf got her aunt and they went to screaming call the police. So why would I go back when they concenced him I was the instigator of what took place. He didnt want me going because he drove past the house.

When he came home he asked what is wrong. He isnt that dumb he knows what is wrong. He wanted to talk I told him I talked the other night and I see that my feelings and what I said are not heard. He went on about how he was responsible. Sur i get thay but it couldnt wait an hour and 15 minutes so she would be gone. No he had to go right then. I am unreasonable. I told him I should not have to babysit him when I voiced what I need it should have been enough but the choice was made.

Why does he now think that he came back and said I'm sorry I thougbt I was doing the right thing by calling and asking you to go. It was bull****. 

Now he says I should be over it and not be upset he called and asked if I wanted to go babysit them. He should have came to me face to face he could when he wanted to start something and I didnt bite. 

So his sorry excuse exempt him from the consequence. I know when boundaries are set thry are not always followed. But not 10 days and he knee what he was going to do the night before and avoided saying anything.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

He's completely wrong. As long as he has ANY contact with her there is no recovery. He is probably still cheating, and you are right to be upset.

Do not back down.


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## Why Bother (Apr 26, 2019)

When he came in after being there he said she wasnt there he didnt ser her. So was he looking for her. Odd thing too his coworker quit yesterday.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Why Bother said:


> When he came in after being there he said she wasnt there he didnt ser her. So was he looking for her. Odd thing too his coworker quit yesterday.


Yeah, well, he can say what he likes. He's a known liar. Why should you believe a word that he says? This needs to be a hard boundary. He doesn't like it? He calls it an ultimatum? So what? Too bad. He put himself in this situation.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

You don't have any boundaries. You just keep trying to think you have boundaries but if you did, you wouldn't be going through any of this. A boundary shouldn't be allowed to be crossed. So didn't you have a boundary regarding a cheating husband? When he cheated, he crossed that boundary, but all you did about it was to add another boundary, or rather you added an ultimatum. He found a way to get around that one and is well on his way to getting away with it because there you are arguing with him, questioning him, bewildered, issuing ultimatums, and don't know what to do.

Either you have boundaries or you don't have boundaries. If you had any regarding a cheating husband, it would have been "I will not tolerate my husband cheating on me and if he does, I will leave him." If that wasn't your boundary, then you didn't have one regarding a cheating husband. If that was your boundary, or rather what you thought was your boundary, there would not be anything to follow except you leaving. Instead, you kept pushing out new boundaries for him to cross, and he keeps crossing them. And you still aren't doing anything.

Stop thinking you have any boundaries because you don't. All you have is a cheating husband and no idea what to do about it because you're too afraid to do the one and only thing you should be doing.

If you cannot live up to what you call boundaries and cannot live up to your ultimatums, then stop making them. You don't want to leave your husband, so you're just wasting your own time with hurt feelings and aggravation and all this back and forth stuff. He's a liar and a cheat. That's all there is to know and all you need to know. If you're not going to do anything about it, you might as well be quiet and let him do whatever he wants since you at least get to keep him.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You can set boundaries but you cannot prevent him from crossing them. All you can do is choose your actions when he does.

If he is unwilling to live in a way that you find acceptable, i don't see an alternative to separating.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

So what are you going to do?


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## Why Bother (Apr 26, 2019)

I assumed some actions were crossing the line because of how he let me how he felt about things so I assumed he held himself to the same standard. Wrong.

The consequence is he has to find another place to live. He has refused it isnt a battle of I said go do you have to go. The reality is the finances of being on my own is not feasible. He is working and makes consifmderable amount more than me and it would be easier for him. 

The question for asking if I was unreasonable comes from dealing with people like this they know how to destroy a persons to where they are not sure if they are being rational after so much of someone destroying it. When there has been lies, distorting the reality doing things to make a person seem or feel,crazy. Doubting yourself after repeated times like this make it easy to question what yoI are thinking. 

His trying to convencd me that he said sorry and that he asked me to go with him. That wasnt part of what we discussed it was there are times when it is closed and I am fine with that but if there is the chance of them to be togethet then he had to leave. 

He has To go..he is refusing


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Why Bother said:


> The question for asking if I was unreasonable comes from dealing with people like this they know how to destroy a persons to where they are not sure if they are being rational after so much of someone destroying it. When there has been lies, distorting the reality doing things to make a person seem or feel,crazy. Doubting yourself after repeated times like this make it easy to question what yoI are thinking.
> 
> He has To go..he is refusing


Right, he is gas lighting you, and you end up feeling like the crazy one. My solution to this is to never argue/debate details with people like this. Just repeat comments about how you feel. It doesn't matter if he thinks what he did was ok. You can say "I can't live with it." "It's not acceptable to me." "I am not happy." "I no longer love you." "I not longer want to be married to you." "I don't trust you and no longer want someone I don't trust." "I'm no longer attracted to you." etc.

As for he has to go but won't leave... I don't know what you can do, if you can make him leave or not. Maybe someone else here knows. Regardless, you can file for divorce while he is still living in the house. He WILL have to pay some alimony if he makes a lot more than you. If there are children he'll have to pay child support if you get custody and you'll probably get the primary residence if you don't have to sell it because of the kids.

If you do not have kids, start looking for a cheaper lifestyle for yourself. I rented a room in someone's house once and it worked out GREAT and VERY inexpensive. It may not be what you want but if your boundary is real, then you are done. Start moving on with your life. You can find another man if that's what you want.

I would talk to an attorney and file for divorce. At some point, one of you will move out and he will be paying alimony at least for awhile.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Why Bother said:


> ................Now he says I should be over it and not be upset he called and asked if I wanted to go babysit them. He should have came to me face to face he could when he wanted to start something and I didnt bite.
> 
> So his sorry excuse exempt him from the consequence. I know when boundaries are set thry are not always followed. But not 10 days and he knee what he was going to do the night before and avoided saying anything.


OK you are upset and have every reason to be upset.

The question is what do you want to do? Do you want to try reconciliation or do you want to end the relationship? The choice is yours, but so are the consequences. 

My suggestion is to work through your anger and then figure out what you want to do, then make a plan to achieve what you want. Even if you want reconciliation, it may not be possible as it would require certain actions on his part, so you should consider that ending the relationship is a real possibility no mater what you decide.

Good luck. You will be better able to handle things if you can work through your anger.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Are you renting or do you own? If the place is rented or owned jointly, I don't think you can't force him out - need to find separate places first. Best bet is to start divorce proceedings. Contact an attorney to learn your options. 





Why Bother said:


> I assumed some actions were crossing the line because of how he let me how he felt about things so I assumed he held himself to the same standard. Wrong.
> 
> The consequence is he has to find another place to live. He has refused it isnt a battle of I said go do you have to go. The reality is the finances of being on my own is not feasible. He is working and makes consifmderable amount more than me and it would be easier for him.
> 
> ...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Why Bother said:


> So WH was given a boundary he calls it an ultimatum. He was working on a vacant apartment above a restraunt. It closes at 3 Mon-Wed. He says he wants to work on his marriage. So I respomded with I need to know that he does not return to this place and him and her be there together. If he could not stay away from her then the conxequence is he needs to move out.
> 
> Come to find out he was back there the day before I said anything about no contact.
> 
> ...


He has no respect for you. Ask him to move out, pack his stuff and leave at the front door. Tell everyone about what he has done and go no contact.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Why Bother said:


> I assumed some actions were crossing the line because of how he let me how he felt about things so I assumed he held himself to the same standard. Wrong.
> 
> The consequence is he has to find another place to live. He has refused it isnt a battle of I said go do you have to go. The reality is the finances of being on my own is not feasible. He is working and makes consifmderable amount more than me and it would be easier for him.
> 
> ...


Get yourself a bull dog lawyer and get advise. He’ll have to pay alimony.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

You say you can't afford to move out. I say you can't afford not to.

Think about the toll this situation takes on you. Your happiness, your self esteem, your ability to trust...is this the life you want to live? 

If you are not willing to sacrifice in order to improve your life, who will? Your husband? 

I'd prefer to live in my car and have some self respect than to live in a palace and be disrespected and made a fool day after day.

So, have you actually made any effort to determine what your options are or do you just assume that you can't afford to move out? Is your current lifestyle sufficient compensation for living a life of fear, anger, resentment, humiliation and uneasiness? Do you assign the responsibility of moving out on him because you know he won't and you can avoid facing change?

If your husband gave a squirt of piss about your feelings or his marriage none of this would have happened in the first place. How can you set a boundary with someone who affords you no authority in their life?

Honestly, the fact that you are asking if it is reasonable to feel the way you do betrays the fact that your self esteem has already been fundamentally damaged. If you are not already seeing a counselor I would suggest you do so right away.

It's been said many times that what you put up with, you end up with. Let that sink in.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Why Bother said:


> I assumed some actions were crossing the line because of how he let me how he felt about things so I assumed he held himself to the same standard. Wrong.
> 
> The reality is the finances of being on my own is not feasible. He is working and makes consifmderable amount more than me and it would be easier for him.
> 
> He has To go..he is refusing


Never assume he's holding himself to any standard. Clearly, he isn't. 

If money is an issue, you either find a way to live within your actual means or you accept you're staying with a cheater because you choose to for financial reasons. 

He doesn't have to leave unless a court orders him to leave. You have the option of leaving, but you seem to want to make excuses to stay. If you're going to do that then just accept he's going to cheat and turn a blind eye.

Personally, I'd rather live in a roommate situation or get a small place in a not so great neighborhood than stay with someone who clearly doesn't respect or value me. But that's just me.


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## Why Bother (Apr 26, 2019)

I have contacted a couple of attornies. Each have said if I leave I will lose the ability to remain, in the house. I have a son thst is also apart of me having a place to stay. He said my best option was to do what I done by giving him a boundary and that would make him either do right for a bit or hr would get the point and leave. He also said based upon my living expensese I have now thst I couldnt rent a room for compared to what I pay now. 

If I leave WH wantd me to continue to pay the mortgage, insurance, etc. So the lawyer indicated if I left I would not be obligated to do so, but there is the probability that he will not pay them. This could create issues for me now and in the future. If I leave and he does this he can prevent me from coming back to the home even if he moves out. 

Ues I agree he doesnt care about anyone but himself. Yes my self esteem and even my ability to trust my own judgement has been destroyed by his means of driving me to this point. 

I have told him to leave. If I put his stuff out it is not legal. As I have been told he is a master manipulator. But I think his issues are getting the better of him I'm done with him. His work is suffering because of his involvement with his AP. He has not been getting calls and the ones he had are now not wanting him to work on their home. Somehow this Will be my fault had nothing to do with him not doing the work he was being paid to do he used that time to have an affair. Then they were seen together daily so his reputation is gone.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why Bother said:


> I have contacted a couple of attornies. Each have said if I leave I will lose the ability to remain, in the house. I have a son thst is also apart of me having a place to stay. He said my best option was to do what I done by giving him a boundary and that would make him either do right for a bit or hr would get the point and leave. *He also said based upon my living expensese I have now thst I couldnt rent a room for compared to what I pay now.
> 
> If I leave WH wantd me to continue to pay the mortgage, insurance*, etc. So the lawyer indicated if I left I would not be obligated to do so, but there is the probability that he will not pay them. This could create issues for me now and in the future. If I leave and he does this he can prevent me from coming back to the home even if he moves out.
> 
> ...


This doesn't quite make sense. Surely, you could afford an apartment if you are currently paying the mortgage, insurance etc. If you want out, stop paying the mortgage, insurance etc and sock that money away for your next abode. You'll have several months before being evicted. If he doesn't pay, the house will go into foreclosure. Find out how that will affect you in the future.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I think you need to contact other lawyers. Either there is a lot more to this story or the lawyer you spoke with is ****e. If you filed today the court would order status quo. In other words, for a time, he'd be obligated to pay at least his share of the bills in the home. Also, hoping an adulterer "gets the point" and leaves on their own isn't exactly stellar advice from any attorney.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You need to figure a way out of this, not just throw your hands up in defeat because its difficult. Unless of course you want to remain with a cheater who doesnt love, respect or support you... Sometimes we have to make sacrifices and put in some hard work in order to move our lives in the direction we need it to go.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> This doesn't quite make sense. Surely, you could afford an apartment if you are currently paying the mortgage, insurance etc. If you want out, stop paying the mortgage, insurance etc and sock that money away for your next abode. You'll have several months before being evicted. If he doesn't pay, the house will go into foreclosure. Find out how that will affect you in the future.


Wow Blondilocks - YOU know how to set a boundary. I like it! I was thinking "but if he won't pay the mortgage then she is screwed financiallyl..." You are saying -- if the house goes to foreclosure, it goes to foreclosure, find out exactly what that means. And I realized, people get foreclosed on all the time. Clearly it's not ideal. But they survive. Does she NEED out of this toxic marriage or not?

Hopefully he will leave, but if he won't, she is not literally stuck there.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think in your mind you need to separate relationship issues and legal issues. 

From what I'm hearing, the relationship is over. It no longer matters whether he is a bad guy, or is violating boundaries etc. You need to leave while getting what you can through the legal system. 

I don't know anything about the law in this, but you should listen to your attorney, or if you think they are giving you bad advice, get another attorney. 





Why Bother said:


> I have contacted a couple of attornies. Each have said if I leave I will lose the ability to remain, in the house. I have a son thst is also apart of me having a place to stay. He said my best option was to do what I done by giving him a boundary and that would make him either do right for a bit or hr would get the point and leave. He also said based upon my living expensese I have now thst I couldnt rent a room for compared to what I pay now.
> 
> If I leave WH wantd me to continue to pay the mortgage, insurance, etc. So the lawyer indicated if I left I would not be obligated to do so, but there is the probability that he will not pay them. This could create issues for me now and in the future. If I leave and he does this he can prevent me from coming back to the home even if he moves out.
> 
> ...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Why Bother said:


> ...He also said based upon my living expensese I have now thst I couldnt rent a room for compared to what I pay now...


The question is, can you afford to rent a room, regardless of what you pay now?



Why Bother said:


> If I leave WH wantd me to continue to pay the mortgage, insurance, etc. So the lawyer indicated if I left I would not be obligated to do so, but there is the probability that he will not pay them. This could create issues for me now and in the future. If I leave and he does this he can prevent me from coming back to the home even if he moves out.


Are you financially able to buy or rent something else if you are not paying the mortgage? If so, you might consider making the move NOW while your credit is still good in case the foreclosure does come to fruition. ALSO, if you know deep down you will divorce, the sooner the paperwork is started, the sooner the ownership of the house is resolved and the less time for financial damage to occur. 



Why Bother said:


> Ues I agree he doesnt care about anyone but himself. Yes my self esteem and even my ability to trust my own judgement has been destroyed by his means of driving me to this point.
> 
> I have told him to leave. If I put his stuff out it is not legal. As I have been told he is a master manipulator... Somehow this Will be my fault had nothing to do with him...


Now that you understand logically he only cares about himself and is a master manipulator, can you co-exist with him awhile as two people in one house -- not trying to get any romance/friendship/etc. out of the situation, without further destroying your self esteem? When HE is saying everything is your fault -- who cares? Of course he will say that. That's what he does. 

With my ex I stayed in the house a few months for financial reasons. IT WAS A MISTAKE in hindsight, but I did do a pretty good job of distancing myself from him emotionally. I went from feeling insecure and unworthy to kind of viewing him as a lab specimen. What would he say next? I could see his thrashing about mentally to regain control of me accelerate and his tactics change as each one did not work. It was very stressful and a little scary as he actually got violent (at objects not me) a few times. However, I just did not engage. He could call me a filthy ***** and I'd just kind of look at him and observe my little lab experiment. I never took the bait for a discussion/debate. If it had to be "all my fault" in his mind for me to get out? Who cares?

The hardest part for me was how SAD and HURT he was. How he was a "new person" now. And we couldn't "throw away" our marriage. Not his anger or contempt or accusations. The hurt and sadness WAS real, but it was because he was losing control of me, a puppet/place holder in his life, who did all kinds of things for him. Not because he cared about me as an individual person due to my specific qualities.
[/QUOTE]


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## Why Bother (Apr 26, 2019)

There is only a few 1000 dollars left on the mortgage and it is just a little over 100. With a lot of work and sacrifice I was able to pay more and get payments down very low and affordable for me to pay should I ever have to on my own. 

I do have an issue with juat letting everything go and let iy foreclose when there is very little left not to mention tje cheapest thing I can get yes I have checked is more than what of pay now by a couple 100 not counting utilities. What I am paying includes utilities all for less than 600 a month. Then if it foreclosed it effects my credit to where renting a place would causer higher deposits, and could prevent getting a place in the future.

I also havent said is that he has been verbally and mentally abusive, he is now threatening physical. I have to be cautious due to the fact that when he threatened me that I was calling 911. He said he would have me sent to jail. Come to find out that is easy to do for an abuser to manipulate their way around from being responsible. Also he is in pockets with all local police. This is small good ole boy scratch my back I'll scratch yours. 

The policy is that if there is a call for domestic someone is going to jail. I believe he could do that too. The one officer I know that isnt corrupt spoke with me saying to be safe as possible but if it gets to getting out of hand to leave. If I cant to try and get to a neighbor and get them to call. This way there are witnesses and not just ones word against the other. He did say depending on who arrives on the called he jas seen thibgs go bad for the woman. Most abusers are calm when they arrive and can manipulate it for the one abused to be sited for DV. There are many that look out for these guy's because they are just as bad at home. 

I contacted a shelter but due to my sons age only I can go I would have to leave him behind. He cant be left alone and he would be if I am not here.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

So be proactive. Contact the police when there is nothing going down to let them know where things are with you two, that you want him out of the house, you plan to divorce him, and he is refusing to leave. This way you have established some kind of baseline history if you should have to call them in the near future. Start whatever legal paperwork is needed to have him evicted. Is only your name on the house? It kinda sounds that way when you talk about paying the mortgage, etc...


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Don't let it go to foreclosure, no reason for you to lose equity.

He is sawing off the branch he is sitting on but he is to self-absorbed to realize it.

This doesn't seem workable from here, but please get legal advice. It may take some time to get it up to speed but it will be wholly worth it.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Why Bother said:


> There is only a few 1000 dollars left on the mortgage and it is just a little over 100. With a lot of work and sacrifice I was able to pay more and get payments down very low and affordable for me to pay should I ever have to on my own.
> 
> I do have an issue with juat letting everything go and let iy foreclose when there is very little left not to mention tje cheapest thing I can get yes I have checked is more than what of pay now by a couple 100 not counting utilities. What I am paying includes utilities all for less than 600 a month. Then if it foreclosed it effects my credit to where renting a place would causer higher deposits, and could prevent getting a place in the future.
> 
> ...


The first thing you do is buy yourself some VARs. Leave one in a hidden place in the house and carry the other one with you at all times. If he is abusive then record it and use it against him. He will soon back down cause he is just a bully. 
Speak to your friends, family, neighbors about what is going on (you have nothing to be ashamed of) and it will keep him accountable. He cannot abuse you or do anything to you once it is common knowledge what he is like.
Speak to the police man and tell him everything. 

Is the house under joint names or your name only? You need to speak to a lawyer about this in more detail, your lawyer sounds small town and not really up for the detail that is needed to sort your problem. 
How old is your son? 
In the meantime is it possible to live separately in the house (if you cannot get him out?). Stop cooking, cleaning, laundry etc for your WH, live as if he is not there. Do the 180 on him to emotionally detach and investigate how you can disentangle your financial affairs. 
What will the outcome be if you file for divorce? Surely the court will ask you to sell assets and he will have to pay alimony? 
In the meantime also get yourself some counselling to learn to stand up for yourself and detach from your abusive WH. 
Perhaps you can send out signals to the OW, tell her to take him off your hands while you plan an exit.
Till now you are sending him signals that you want him, you are fighting and checking up on him, giving him boundaries, etc, this is telling him that you still want to fight for him. This is a mistake, detach detach detach. Show no interest in anything he is doing, do not ask questions, do not engage, do not do anything for him. Use the 'grey rock' technique. Meanwhile, work on your exit.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Ugghhh! If he is threatening violence, can you get a restraining order against him? I have heard these are pretty easy to get because courts will error on the side of caution when it's he said she said. That would force him out of the house.

How long until the house is paid off?
How much of that monthly bill is the mortgage, vs. utilities? Because if you move out and get your name taken off the utilities those are not going to hurt your credit if he stops paying them. Could you afford a temporary place elsewhere and keep up the mortgage payment? If you've paid extra on the mortgage, can you talk to your bank about your current situation?
Do you have any friends or family you and you son can stay with for an extended period of time? 

Asking just to try to brainstorm a solution.

What does your husband *want *right now? To remain a "happy" couple? (while he threatens violence if you leave...?) 

I want to say can you stay and be roommates for awhile while after filing for divorce, until the mortgage situation resolves, but if he's threatening violence, that could be a very serious and real threat. When someone has control over you and they lose it, they CAN become quite dangerous.

You could stay and pretend to be happy, but if you file for divorce he'll know you're leaving him and if you don't this could drag on a long time if you're waiting to fully pay the house off.

I hope you talk to your attorney again with all the new facts.

Hang in there, it won't be like this forever. Something WILL give at some point.

Hopefully just understanding your husband is a **** will help you with your own self esteem and bad feelings from never being good enough for him while this sorts out.



Why Bother said:


> There is only a few 1000 dollars left on the mortgage and it is just a little over 100. With a lot of work and sacrifice I was able to pay more and get payments down very low and affordable for me to pay should I ever have to on my own.
> 
> I do have an issue with juat letting everything go and let iy foreclose when there is very little left not to mention tje cheapest thing I can get yes I have checked is more than what of pay now by a couple 100 not counting utilities. What I am paying includes utilities all for less than 600 a month. Then if it foreclosed it effects my credit to where renting a place would causer higher deposits, and could prevent getting a place in the future.
> 
> ...


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