# EA, I think so



## Lostagainea

The story:

So I've been married to my wife for about a year and a half and we were together for five years before we got married. We do not have kids together though having them in the near future has been a common topic for us for a while now. We just bought our first house together this year.

A little backstory before the recent concern. Years ago, before we got married, she had an EA with a friend. I became uncomfortable with the amount of time she was spending with this person and I personally judged him to be a piece of crap. I eventually went to looking through her texts (really in hopes of finding out I was being paranoid for nothing) and I found inappropriate messages between the two of them. I confronted her on them later on and naturally fighting ensued. She eventually came to admit that she had allowed things to go to far with him and she drastically cut back on contact and soon went NC. Things were great after that but I've always remained a bit paranoid about her having male friends.

Moving on to the current events. She started the job she works at now a little over a year ago and has a male coworker that I've always been aware of. They were merely coworkers for a long time and we had all hung out at work functions and a few times we even went out on double dates. He has a girlfriend that he has been with for about as long as my wife and I have been together so I never viewed him as a threat. 

About two months ago the OM started to have serious relationship problems with is GF. She started pushing towards marriage and kids with him but he was becoming unhappy in the relationship. My wife noticed he was getting depressed and started to talk to him about his relationship problems. I started to notice that they were suddenly spending more and more time together and for a little over a month now, they've been talking every single day and hanging out multiple times a week. 

I confronted her on my discomfort about the time this was starting and I see now that I was really passive about it. I explained it off as my issues with insecurity/jealousy and asked that she respect some boundaries that I set in order to help me get past my issues. She insisted they were just friends and he needs someone to talk to through his rough time. She did follow through on one thing, we did all arrange for her, myself and the OM to hang out a couple of times.

She did not respect my boundaries on two different occasions and I called her on it. She was very apologetic and remorseful for hurting me. After that, she went out with him again and I told her I wanted her home by a certain time and she agreed. Surprisingly she did follow through with it and it felt helpful and she also expressed that they agreed to spend a lot less time together. Luckily I didn't let this stop me investigating their relationship. I decided that I would do my best to act normal and I would secretly observe.

No sooner than a few days later she comes home and tells me that she is going out with another friend of hers.The way she approached me on it was very similar to the way she would approach me when going to hang out with the OM. I became suspicious and made a plan. First I called the workplace of the friend she was supposedly going to hang out with (after she had left to meet him) and simply asked if he was working. The receptionist said yes and went to retrieve him to take my call. I hung up having had my suspicions confirmed. I checked her phone the next morning and found that she had plans with the OM on facebook the day before and she also had planned on hanging out with her friend that evening after the OM but their plans were cancelled through texts while she was out with the OM. I did check her bank account and she did originally go where she said she was going. She was partially honest with me but she still lied. The next morning she even had a few anecdotal stories about her night with her friend. I knew she was lying to my face as she told them.

The next night she went out with another friend, I did confirm that this friend was there, but I also confirmed that the OM was there (and she specifically told me he was invited but didn't want to go). Once again she lied to me.

Through this whole process I have been monitoring their facebook chats (it's their main means of communication) via facebook on her phone and the messages make me very uncomfortable. She's made comments on noticing he doesn't wear underwear at work and has a nice butt, or he has "beautiful blue eyes". He's made comments on her attractiveness and called her sexy (I think we all know what that implies). They both use semi "luv you" type comments in a seemingly unromantic way and they both excessively use "miss you". The other interesting thing in their facebook messaging was when I confronted her the first time, she went on to tell him "(me) finally got mad =(". He responded with comments implying that he didn't want to do anything to damage her relationship with me. It annoyed me that she obviously knew their relationship would bother me but did nothing to set boundaries early on.

I also recently purchased a VAR for use in her car and out on our back patio where she regularly takes his calls. I've only recorded one conversation so far and it was flirty, she said something along the lines of "I was trying to not think about how cute you are at work today".

There's been no sign of it turning physical yet and I do think that would be a wide line for her to cross but that's not to say it couldn't happen.

My opinion:

I think he is using her as a way to disconnect from his current relationship that he wants out of and as part of the process is forming a strong emotional connection with her and is physically attracted to her. I do believe he is a generally good person (unlike the OM in her other EA). I only say this as it's part of the confrontation plan I'm trying to form, I think he's a coward and an idiot in the end.

I think my wife is a selfish cake eater. She is a good person and I know she loves me and wants a life with me but I think she is getting caught up in the addiction of an EA. She is obviously addicted to the OM emotionally. The fact that she's starting lying to me makes me worry as she's getting deeper and getting more comfortable with it. I feel like she is only slightly withdrawn from our marriage, it really feels like she is trying to balance two relationships and not chose one over the other.

My plan:

The wife and I go on a very expensive vacation at the end of the week for 9 days. I'm going to tell her before we leave that she needs to cut contact with the OM during this trip. I fully expect her not to so I'm bringing along my VAR. I've also been tempted to contact him and tell him to back off while we're on vacation but I can't decide if that's a good move or not. As a more sneaky move, I've thought of contacting my brother (who works for our cell provider) and asking him to shut her phone off during the trip and blaming it on the carrier having issues. We will be out at sea in Canadian waters and cell phone use is stupid expensive in that circumstance anyway. I know this all sounds petty but we've been looking forward to this trip for a year and I really want to preserve it to some extent. It's too late to cancel it for any refund and we are highly financially invested in it.

In the meantime, I need to get a hard copy of her facebook convo with the OM.

After we get back from the trip, I plan on confronting. With the facebook conversations and proof that she lied about her plans on multiple occasions, I feel I have enough proof. Sometimes I doubt that but I think that's just me trying to negotiate down the significance of the EA. I was also thinking of presenting her with logs showing how much time she spends calling him each week (hours and hours on the phone on top of the facebooking, working together and hanging out outside of work).

I was thinking of initiating the confrontation by asking her to let me see their facebook convos. I can say with the utmost certainty she will try to find a way out of that. It seems like I'm trying to catch her in one last lie to enforce my position but I'm not sure if that's worth it or not.

I've also thought of confronting him immediately after her. He's a coward and I think it might be productive to figuratively hit him upside the head but it's such a highly debated topic here that I have trouble forming a strict opinion in favor of either doing it or not doing it. 



Anyway, I've spent countless hours reading about EAs on here and people's experiences. I'll admit that finding myself in this situation again is surreal in a way. I don't want it to be happening and part of me doesn't want to believe it's happening. Part of me still thinks I'm overreacting. I want to think the best of my wife and her love for me but it's such a defeating circumstance to be in. I truly love her and I will give my absolute best to make our marriage work but the horizon looks so dim right now. My goals to have a life and family with her feel so dimmed by the blow to my self esteem and the fear of future EAs (with her now being a repeat offender). I know I'm expected to feel this way and we can work to recover from it and better our marriage, it's just such a crappy situation to be in. I truly empathize with anyone who's experienced any form of infidelity and I just wish our partners could have any idea what they're putting us through.

I'm here to get opinions on my uncertainties about approaching this and to simply "talk" about what I'm going through so thank you for any feedback and thank you for reading my long wall of text.


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## Unsure in Seattle

Oh, it's an EA, for sure.

I do have a question fo you, tho'.

Do you want to be a warden for the rest of your life?

I'm not saying that as some kind of hypocritical "don't snoop" thing; far from it. I'm saying do you want to be in a relationship where you have to look over your shoulder all of the time? Where sh lies to you and disrespects you and the reasonable boundaries you've set?

Just food for thought.

If you are going to confront, I'd do it ASAP. Dunnoif I would wait for the trip.


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## The Middleman

I think what you've done so far is good, however, it's no where near far enough for me. I would call her her out on behavior now. No further contact with the OM. Not before vacation, not during vacation, and not after vacation. No going out to hang with him ever again (what's wrong with you for letting her do that in the first place, makes me want to smack you). If your wife gives you the insecurity line tell her to take that argument and shove it up (you know where). It is wrong for her to be alone with other men period! If she continues to go out with him, follow her and crash their little "just friends night out"! Do it each and every time until they are sick of you! I'll bet this guy wets his pants the first time anyway. BE AGGRESSIVE AND MAKE THIS AS UNCOMFORTABLE AS POSSIBLE FOR THEM. THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING TOGETHER.

I have no problem with you calling the OM and telling him in no uncertain terms to back the F-off now. And keep gathering evidence. Your lawyer may need it.


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## lordmayhem

Yet ANOTHER example of Opposite Sex Friends (OSFs) turning into an affair. Your suspicions are correct, she is in a full on EA, no doubt about it. And if it hasn't gone PA already, it soon will. Either way, you need to put a stop to it immediately.

I'm surprised you made the obvious mistakes, given that she's already had one EA previously. I agree, you were very passive about this situation. Far too many men are afraid of being labeled as insecure or jealous, which leads them to be so passive. You should have put a stop to this earlier. This is not about being insecure or jealous, this is about protecting your marriage like a husband is supposed to do. You're supposed to c0ck block another man away from your wife.

I'm also surprised that you even allowed your wife to go out with this OM alone on multiple occasions! This is called dating. Why did you even allow another man to court and date your wife?

You need to expose this EA to the Other Mans Girl Friend (OMGF), because that's what it is. Then she needs to send the OM a full NC letter....if she's remorseful and wants to save the marriage. DO NOT, under any circumstances, ever accept the standard line: He's just a friend. Because it's obvious that this has gone far beyond simple platonic friendship. 

When she goes NC, then you need to verify that she has indeed gone NC. This involves installing computer monitoring software on the computer and/or phone, VARs in the vehicle, and GPS tracking devices. 

It's obvious your WW has very low boundaries and doesn't know how to act like a married woman. You need to address this now, otherwise soon, she will be leaving you for the OM.


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## Shaggy

If she is telling him he is cute, and she us arranging secret meetups etc not only is it an EA it is about to go PA. Why? Because noticing him being cute is her body emotionally reacting to his presence, it is triggering bonding and desire in her.

Her seeking continued evening contact with him, and lying to get it, is her seeking more and more physical contact with him.

Do not be at all surprised if kissing and hand touching isn't already occurring. 

You've been way to patient so far and she's dug in deep with him. To the point that she is now choosing to lie to you in order to meet up with him. She already is choosing him over you.

And he is all for it. He's ones she's showing her loyalty to be more with him than you. For instance she reports to him when you are unhappy, but how she will handle you and make sure her relationship with him continues to grow. Is she sharing his confidences in her with you? I bet not.

This isn't soft EA territory, this is right on the edge of ending your marriage terroritory.



She is going to have to end completely this relationship.


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## Malaise

The Middleman said:


> I think what you've done so far is good, however, it's no where near far enough for me. I would call her her out on behavior now. No further contact with the OM. Not before vacation, not during vacation, and not after vacation. *No going out to hang with him ever again (what's wrong with you for letting her do that in the first place, makes me want to smack you). If your wife gives you the insecurity line tell her to take that argument and shove it up (you know where). *It is wrong for her to be alone with other men period! If she continues to go out with him, follow her and crash their little "just friends night out"! Do it each and every time until they are sick of you! I'll bet this guy wets his pants the first time anyway. *BE AGGRESSIVE AND MAKE THIS AS UNCOMFORTABLE AS POSSIBLE FOR THEM. THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING TOGETHER.*
> *I have no problem with you calling the OM and telling him in no uncertain terms to back the F-off now.* And keep gathering evidence. Your lawyer may need it.


I love this.

OP
In your original post you sounded very rational,planning everything out, in an intellectual,civilized fashion.

Screw that. See above for the way to do it


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## Lostagainea

> You need to expose this EA to the Other Mans Girl Friend (OMGF)


The thing to note here is that the OMGF has been persistent at stopping their friendship. She keeps making requests and demands to him to stop contact with her but he refuses. My wife constantly mocks what a control freak the OMGF is to the OM. This might be one of the reasons I held off, I didn't want the same labels, but in retrospect, she seems to have more vigilance than me.

I've thought about contacting her to exchange "stories" and such but I don't want her to tell the OM and the OM to tell my wife and force them to go more underground before I confront. Maybe I'll add her to the list of people to contact after I confront.


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## The Middleman

lordmayhem said:


> I agree, you were very passive about this situation. Far too many men are afraid of being labeled as insecure or jealous, which leads them to be so passive. You should have put a stop to this earlier.


I just don't get younger men today. Really! I grew up in The Bronx (NY) and if someone just looked at one of our GF's for just a little to long, he would have been lucky to get away with just a hospital visit. I remember when I was a teen there was a guy two blocks away banging a housewife on my block. The husband got wind of it and he and two of his friends actually went into the guys house, threw him down the stairs and into the street where they proceeded to put him in the hospital. Everyone saw it but some how the police couldn't find any witnesses. I miss the 70's.


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## Shaggy

Lostagainea said:


> The thing to note here is that the OMGF has been persistent at stopping their friendship. She keeps making requests and demands to him to stop contact with her but he refuses. My wife constantly mocks what a control freak the OMGF is to the OM. This might be one of the reasons I held off, I didn't want the same labels, but in retrospect, she seems to have more vigilance than me.
> 
> I've thought about contacting her to exchange "stories" and such but I don't want her to tell the OM and the OM to tell my wife and force them to go more underground before I confront. Maybe I'll add her to the list of people to contact after I confront.


There you have it. The OMGF sees that the relationship has crossed boundaries too. 

Btw, using the word controlling is a huge red flag. It may already have gone PA.

Has your sex life increased or decreased? Has her cell become glued to her and locked? Has she started dressing better, wearing nicer underwear to work ? Lost weight?


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## lordmayhem

The OMGF is doing more to protect her relationship than you are at this point. She may know even more. In fact, this might be so because you said that suddenly OM is having severe relationship problems with this GF. 

How do you know that this is in part due to his relationship with your WW? That he was becoming unhappy in his relationship because of his feelings toward your WW? You need to investigate this promptly.


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## Shaggy

You need to go talk to the OMGF and put at joint end to things.


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## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> but I don't want her to tell the OM and the OM to tell my wife and force them to go more underground before I confront. Maybe I'll add her to the list of people to contact after I confront.


If this is your attitude, you're doomed. Call a lawyer.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

I would plan to have a conversation with his girl. It's the best way to compare notes and make sure the both of you know everything.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Lostagainea said:


> The thing to note here is that the OMGF has been persistent at stopping their friendship. She keeps making requests and demands to him to stop contact with her but he refuses. My wife constantly mocks what a control freak the OMGF is to the OM. This might be one of the reasons I held off, I didn't want the same labels, but in retrospect, she seems to have more vigilance than me.
> 
> I've thought about contacting her to exchange "stories" and such but I don't want her to tell the OM and the OM to tell my wife and force them to go more underground before I confront. Maybe I'll add her to the list of people to contact after I confront.



What would be the point of contacting her after you confront? You talk to her first. That way the OM doesn't have time to setup his lies.


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## Malaise

The Middleman said:


> If this is your attitude, your doomed. Call a lawyer.


He's thinking too much.

Has to get more visceral


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## AlphaHalf

> She eventually came to admit that she had allowed things to go to far with him and she drastically cut back on contact and soon went NC


She didn't stop immediately like she should have, but at least she stopped. You should have squashed it then. But Hey, lesson learned.

Now you know she is at it again. From your post it seems like your taking to much time watching and observing instead of busting her actions out in the open *Because she already has a history of having an A*. Forget that Mission Impossible Covert Op's plan of yours and take action now. You already posted enough evidence here.



> I do believe he is a generally good person (unlike the OM in her other EA). I only say this as it's part of the confrontation plan I'm trying to form, I think he's a coward and an idiot in the end.


This "generally good person" is trying to take your wife, What the [email protected]#$ is good about that?????? You think he is a "coward and a idiot" Well this "idiot" is currently winning while your just watching. Get a Lawyer and a MC counselor ready because your going to need it.


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## The Middleman

Malaise said:


> He's thinking too much.
> 
> Has to get more visceral


Your right. Personally, I think he's scared sh1tless of his wife calling him controlling.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Talk to the GF immediately and then tell your wife the nonsense ends now. Anything less and you tell her you're filing.


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## Malaise

AlphaHalf said:


> She didn't stop immediately like she should have, but at least she stopped. You should have squashed it then. But Hey, lesson learned.
> 
> Now you know she is at it again. From your post it seems like your taking to much time watching and observing instead of busting her actions out in the open *Because she already has a history of having an A*. Forget that Mission Impossible Covert Op's plan of yours and take action now. You already posted enough evidence here.
> 
> 
> 
> *This "generally good person" is trying to take your wife, What the [email protected]#$ is good about that?????? You think he is a "coward and a idiot" Well this "idiot" is currently winning while your just watching*.



Op

You sound like an educated man, maybe an advanced degree or two. And it sounds as though you look down on the OM. He is not as smart, well paid etc.

But he's screwing your wife as you look down your nose at him!

You got to get in the gutter a bit. If you don't know how, ask Middleman.


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## lordmayhem

The Middleman said:


> I just don't get younger men today. Really! I grew up in The Bronx (NY) and if someone just looked at one of our GF's for just a little to long, he would have been lucky to get away with just a hospital visit. I remember when I was a teen there was a guy two blocks away banging a housewife on my block. The husband got wind of it and he and two of his friends actually went into the guys house, threw him down the stairs and into the street where they proceeded to put him in the hospital. Everyone saw it but some how the police couldn't find any witnesses. I miss the 70's.


:soapbox:

The world has changed since the 70s, and in some ways, not necessarily for the better. Back then, it was okay, and even expected, that a man was supposed to protect his marriage against other men.

Now, it's not politically correct and men are raised accordingly. That's why you get all these "Oh noez! She'll say I'm a control freak/controlling!". 

And this goes for betrayed wives as well. In today's world, you're not supposed to protect your marriage, you're supposed to now trust completely and let them do what they want to do. And if they cheat, then it's *YOUR* fault for not fulfilling their needs.


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## Plan 9 from OS

For others who may be reading this thread, take note. If you ARE NOT MARRIED YET to your bf/gf (or fiance) and you caught them cheating on you...cut your losses now and drop him/her like a bad habit. If they are cheating on you before marriage, it will most assuredly come back to haunt you again when you're married. 

Sorry OP, but this is a good lesson to take heart. IMO, especially if you have no kids, do now what you should have done the first time she cheated on you. End this marriage and go your separate way. If you live in a no fault state (which is likely the case), you have no need to put yourself through any drama with checking up on her and monitoring her every move. Considering this is now the second time this happened to you within 6 years of being together, you should cue the buxom Opera Singer to warm up her voice... JMO, take it for what it's worth.


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## The Middleman

lordmayhem said:


> :soapbox:
> 
> The world has changed since the 70s, and in some ways, not necessarily for the better. Back then, it was okay, and even expected, that a man was supposed to protect his marriage against other men.
> 
> Now, it's not politically correct and men are raised accordingly. That's why you get all these "Oh noez! She'll say I'm a control freak/controlling!".
> 
> And this goes for betrayed wives as well. In today's world, you're not supposed to protect your marriage, you're supposed to now trust completely and let them do what they want to do. And if they cheat, then it's *YOUR* fault for not fulfilling their needs.


That trust stuff is all horse crap. Admittedly, the beatings we would have administered back then are not practical today (and I'm too old), but the sentiment is still valid. As in my own case, if my wife wanted contact with her ex-bf all she had to do was file for separation first, then she could do what she wanted. Otherwise, if she just even thought about him, I was going to make life miserable (in a non controlling way, of course). 

That's why infidelity is up so much. Trust is way too over rated. Who is the guy here saying "Trust but Verify". I generally say "never trust your fellow man because your fellow man sucks".


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## Maricha75

Lostagainea said:


> The thing to note here is that the OMGF has been persistent at stopping their friendship. She keeps making requests and demands to him to stop contact with her but he refuses. My wife constantly mocks what a control freak the OMGF is to the OM. This might be one of the reasons I held off, I didn't want the same labels, but in retrospect, she seems to have more vigilance than me.


Lost, I can understand that you don't want to seem a control freak, but really, as others have said, that is cheater speak. In my EA I felt my husband was trying to control me by requesting, no DEMANDING that I cease contact. Listen, you know she is cheating. Yes, emotional affairs are cheating. But the thing is, it's not gonna go away on its own. It's gonna get worse if you let it go. If it hasn't gone PA yet, I think it will soon. You need to get this guy out of her life, now. They work together??? Well, you know what that means then...



Lostagainea said:


> I've thought about contacting her to exchange "stories" and such but I don't want her to tell the OM and the OM to tell my wife and force them to go more underground before I confront. Maybe I'll add her to the list of people to contact after I confront.


I think you and the OMGF need to talk BEFORE you confront your wife. Tell her that she CANNOT tell the OM what you two discuss before you and your wife talk. As a matter of fact, perhaps you both can pick a day and time to confront your respective waywards. Hmmm...that might work. If she thinks she will cave, then pick a day that is earlier, rather than later. But you two DO need to talk. You need to figure out exactly how far this has gone. And, point out to her that if she confronts before the set day/time, then that will push them further underground. 

Also, you could direct her to this site to get advice on how to deal with the situation.


Overall, I think you have a fairly good plan. I just think you need to be more aggressive, MUCH less passive!


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## Plan 9 from OS

lordmayhem said:


> :soapbox:
> 
> The world has changed since the 70s, and in some ways, not necessarily for the better. Back then, it was okay, and even expected, that a man was supposed to protect his marriage against other men.
> 
> Now, it's not politically correct and men are raised accordingly. That's why you get all these "Oh noez! She'll say I'm a control freak/controlling!".
> 
> And this goes for betrayed wives as well. In today's world, you're not supposed to protect your marriage, you're supposed to now trust completely and let them do what they want to do. And if they cheat, then it's *YOUR* fault for not fulfilling their needs.


Some may agree or disagree, but I don't think the mindset of men changed so much as the nature of society in general. Blame technology more than anything IMO Considering technology is so much better now, it's a snap to catch people in compromising situations. Back in the 70s, there wouldn't be people walking around with smart phones that can record, take photos or video situations. So it was quite easy to beat the crap out of someone who has wronged you greatly, and all you had to worry about were eye witnesses. In marital infidelity, people conveniently "forgot" what they saw because everyone knows (and still knows) that it's wrong. Now, police have to take action if there is evidence preserved - no matter how "right" the BS may be in beating the crap out of the OM. If he is recorded doing it, his goose is cooked. That's why things are so different today, IMHO.


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## MattMatt

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> I would plan to have a conversation with his girl. It's the best way to compare notes and make sure the both of you know everything.


:iagree:


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## Thundarr

It's not an accident or vulnerable state. It's a pattern. She's not relationship material right now.


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## seasalt

What I don't understand is how you can go on a nine day vacation with her and have a good time with this on your mind. I think you need to confront her now and get the air cleared before you leave.

Perhaps use the time away to be alone with her to set your relationship straight one way or the other.


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## Lostagainea

seasalt said:


> What I don't understand is how you can go on a nine day vacation with her and have a good time with this on your mind. I think you need to confront her now and get the air cleared before you leave.
> 
> Perhaps use the time away to be alone with her to set your relationship straight one way or the other.


I'm starting to really consider this option, set up a meet with the OMGF, share info and do this. I can get the facebook stuff right now by resetting her password through her email. I keep thinking I need to find a way to get it off the phone but this will work.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Lostagainea said:


> I'm starting to really consider this option, set up a meet with the OMGF, share info and do this. I can get the facebook stuff right now by resetting her password through her email. I keep thinking I need to find a way to get it off the phone but this will work.



If you can get whatever information you can and print it out that will help when you confront your wife. You should also share this with the OMGF. As for the phone you should look into a sim card reader. Depending on the phone type you can get current and deleted texts off the phone using the reader.


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## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> I'm starting to really consider this option, set up a meet with the OMGF, share info and do this. I can get the facebook stuff right now by resetting her password through her email. I keep thinking I need to find a way to get it off the phone but this will work.


But are you going to draw the line in the sand with your wife?


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## lordmayhem

What kind of phone?


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## mahike

It does not matter if it is a EA or a PA she is cheating. Treat it the same way you would a PA. Confront, Expose, NC Letter and she must leave her job right now.

I know you feel pain. This is going to get out of hand quick. So handle it quick.

Today!


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## lovelygirl

Are you sure you want to block the signal of her mobile carrier while on vacation? 
The truth is that even if she won't be able to talk to him, she'll THINK about him...but you won't know exactly what she'll be thinking about him.
The unknown is worse than the known truth that hurts.

What if you let her mobile carrier work and see how far she goes by talking to him? Will this vacation (that you've been waiting for so long) be more or less important to her than the OM?
You'll have an answer soon.

If she keeps on lying more and more, this way you'll be more convinced of the fact that she's playing you and when you get back from the vacation you'll have a cold mind to think clearly.


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## Jonesey

After all this secrets.Disrespect in your FACE.And so on..
You are rewording her with one expensive vacation! 

Are you EFFING KIDDING ME??

Seriously DUDE!!


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## The bishop

You need to act and act quickly. You need to set up consequences that are very real, be strong, she clearly wants this to continue, if she won't NC with OM, kick her out. Confront the OM and let it be know he is to have no contact with her, even if she tries. Stop overthinking this and act now!! You should of the first time you caught her lying


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## Shaggy

You have a couple options :

1. Put in a massive effort to be there every time she meets up with him. Become like glue. Effective c-block the relationship. See if you can turn down the heat and get him to go hunting elsewhere.

2. Talk to the OMGF, compare notes and jointly tackle the problem.

3. Confront your wife. Call her out on the secret meet ups, the disrepect comments about you to him. Lay down the him or us line, including demand full transparency and job change.

4. Do nothing, monitor seeth and hope she doesn't leave you.

5. Confront him (btw I've never heard of this working unless you can actually administer real lasting motivation, which is impossible in this day and age)

6. Go nuclear and file for D.

7. Go bond and deploy recorders, cams, key loggers and record them crossing the line.


----------



## The Middleman

lovelygirl said:


> Are you sure you want to block the signal of her mobile carrier while on vacation?
> The truth is that even if she won't be able to talk to him, she'll THINK about him...but you won't know exactly she'll be thinking about him.


Actually, I kind of like this idea. Instead of blocking the signal, you can actually have the carrier suspend service to the phone over the 9 vacation days. If she is as bad as your posting portrays, you should see some interesting withdrawal symptoms. Deactivate your phone too just so she doesn't have a fall back. You can say that you didn't want a distraction during your vacation. (I know this is childish, but it's interesting to see what would happen)


----------



## Emerald

Don't beat yourself up.

Work EA's happen all of the time.

You have been given a chance to save your marriage. It may be your only chance, so take it.

Confront, shut it down & affair proof your marriage - now - before it's too late.


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## TDSC60

Dude - you are allowing your wife to go out on dates with another man. Call it helping him through a tough time or what ever excuse she wants to throw at you, but she is going out with another man one on one.

Then you say she is coming home when she is supposed to so it must be OK.

Where's that picture of the Ostrich with it's head in the sand when you need it?

The train is coming and you are sitting on the tracks making up excuses for not moving.


----------



## Lostagainea

I guess I wasn't clear on the phone thing. He does not text at all, this has been a known fact since before the EA started and I've confirmed it as best I can. Her used texts increase at the rate of undeleted texts on her phone (in other words she isn't deleting anything) and there has never been any form him. The usefulness of the phones has been facebook messaging through the facebook app you can get. She never deletes his messages (as Ive never let on that I'm reading them) so I'm able to keep up. I was just worried that I couldn't retrieve the facebook mesages off of her phone. Not a problem since you only need email access to change a facebook password and access a facebook account on a computer.

I am seriously weighing my options. I'm trying to figure something out with her at this moment, Ill get back here in a bit.


----------



## Lostagainea

Just got done texting her trying to make shopping plans pretrip. She indicated she might have plans but after pushing her on what, she's now saying she is stuck at work with an emergency. I'm going to drive to her work right when I'm done typing this and see if she is actually there. If she isn't, this happens tonight.


----------



## Shaggy

Them meeting up so often and her lying to you shows I think that this may go PA very soon. So I would not it back long.

While thinking about it, I recommend you implement a policy of being present every time he is or might be. Then watch for messages between them about mising being together without you.


----------



## warlock07

You should serious consider your relationship with a woman with such boundaries. Doesn't sound like marriage material currently.




Lostagainea said:


> The thing to note here is that the OMGF has been persistent at stopping their friendship. She keeps making requests and demands to him to stop contact with her but he refuses. My wife constantly mocks what a control freak the OMGF is to the OM. This might be one of the reasons I held off, I didn't want the same labels, but in retrospect, she seems to have more vigilance than me.


Clever manipulation here.

I don't like the 9 day vacation plan either. Confront her and decide on where the relationship goes based on how she is reacting to the situation.

Confront her before the mind images haunt you for the rest of your life.


----------



## Thundarr

Emerald said:


> Don't beat yourself up.
> 
> Work EA's happen all of the time.
> 
> You have been given a chance to save your marriage. It may be your only chance, so take it.
> 
> Confront, shut it down & affair proof your marriage - now - before it's too late.


This would be my wish for you too accept for the following.



Lostagainea said:


> A little backstory before the recent concern. Years ago, before we got married, she had an EA with a friend.


So in other words this has happened twice. Fool me once.


----------



## OldWolf57

txt her back and say you have changed your mind about the trip. Tell her you are forfiting the deposit, and seeing a lawyer about D/ing


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## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> Just got done texting her trying to make shopping plans pretrip. She indicated she might have plans but after pushing her on what, she's now saying she is stuck at work with an emergency. I'm going to drive to her work right when I'm done typing this and see if she is actually there. If she isn't, this happens tonight.


THAT'S THE TICKET! If she isn't at work, find out where she is and head there next. Don't stop until you confront.


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## Thundarr

I see the vacation like a all you can eat buffet. You're not REALLY getting your money's worth if it causes you pain. 

Yea cheesy analogy but the point is I would not go on vacation just to make sure you got your money's worth. Not sure it would be a pleasant trip and your out the money no matter what.


----------



## CanadianGuy

I be going on vacation with out her. Relax and enjoy.


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> Just got done texting her trying to make shopping plans pretrip. She indicated she might have plans but after pushing her on what, she's now saying she is stuck at work with an emergency. I'm going to drive to her work right when I'm done typing this and see if she is actually there. If she isn't, this happens tonight.


We haven't heard from Lostagainea since 5:30 Eastern. Wondering what kind of crap hit the fan.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostagainea said:


> The story:
> 
> So I've been married to my wife for about a year and a half and we were together for five years before we got married. We do not have kids together though having them in the near future has been a common topic for us for a while now. We just bought our first house together this year.
> 
> A little backstory before the recent concern. Years ago, before we got married, she had an EA with a friend. I became uncomfortable with the amount of time she was spending with this person and I personally judged him to be a piece of crap. I eventually went to looking through her texts (really in hopes of finding out I was being paranoid for nothing) and I found inappropriate messages between the two of them. I confronted her on them later on and naturally fighting ensued. She eventually came to admit that she had allowed things to go to far with him and she drastically cut back on contact and soon went NC. Things were great after that but I've always remained a bit paranoid about her having male friends.
> 
> Moving on to the current events. She started the job she works at now a little over a year ago and has a male coworker that I've always been aware of. They were merely coworkers for a long time and we had all hung out at work functions and a few times we even went out on double dates. He has a girlfriend that he has been with for about as long as my wife and I have been together so I never viewed him as a threat.
> 
> About two months ago the OM started to have serious relationship problems with is GF. She started pushing towards marriage and kids with him but he was becoming unhappy in the relationship. My wife noticed he was getting depressed and started to talk to him about his relationship problems. I started to notice that they were suddenly spending more and more time together and for a little over a month now, they've been talking every single day and hanging out multiple times a week.
> 
> I confronted her on my discomfort about the time this was starting and I see now that I was really passive about it. I explained it off as my issues with insecurity/jealousy and asked that she respect some boundaries that I set in order to help me get past my issues. She insisted they were just friends and he needs someone to talk to through his rough time. She did follow through on one thing, we did all arrange for her, myself and the OM to hang out a couple of times.
> 
> She did not respect my boundaries on two different occasions and I called her on it. She was very apologetic and remorseful for hurting me. After that, she went out with him again and I told her I wanted her home by a certain time and she agreed. Surprisingly she did follow through with it and it felt helpful and she also expressed that they agreed to spend a lot less time together. Luckily I didn't let this stop me investigating their relationship. I decided that I would do my best to act normal and I would secretly observe.
> 
> No sooner than a few days later she comes home and tells me that she is going out with another friend of hers.The way she approached me on it was very similar to the way she would approach me when going to hang out with the OM. I became suspicious and made a plan. First I called the workplace of the friend she was supposedly going to hang out with (after she had left to meet him) and simply asked if he was working. The receptionist said yes and went to retrieve him to take my call. I hung up having had my suspicions confirmed. I checked her phone the next morning and found that she had plans with the OM on facebook the day before and she also had planned on hanging out with her friend that evening after the OM but their plans were cancelled through texts while she was out with the OM. I did check her bank account and she did originally go where she said she was going. She was partially honest with me but she still lied. The next morning she even had a few anecdotal stories about her night with her friend. I knew she was lying to my face as she told them.
> 
> The next night she went out with another friend, I did confirm that this friend was there, but I also confirmed that the OM was there (and she specifically told me he was invited but didn't want to go). Once again she lied to me.
> 
> Through this whole process I have been monitoring their facebook chats (it's their main means of communication) via facebook on her phone and the messages make me very uncomfortable. She's made comments on noticing he doesn't wear underwear at work and has a nice butt, or he has "beautiful blue eyes". He's made comments on her attractiveness and called her sexy (I think we all know what that implies). They both use semi "luv you" type comments in a seemingly unromantic way and they both excessively use "miss you". The other interesting thing in their facebook messaging was when I confronted her the first time, she went on to tell him "(me) finally got mad =(". He responded with comments implying that he didn't want to do anything to damage her relationship with me. It annoyed me that she obviously knew their relationship would bother me but did nothing to set boundaries early on.
> 
> I also recently purchased a VAR for use in her car and out on our back patio where she regularly takes his calls. I've only recorded one conversation so far and it was flirty, she said something along the lines of "I was trying to not think about how cute you are at work today".
> 
> There's been no sign of it turning physical yet and I do think that would be a wide line for her to cross but that's not to say it couldn't happen.
> 
> My opinion:
> 
> I think he is using her as a way to disconnect from his current relationship that he wants out of and as part of the process is forming a strong emotional connection with her and is physically attracted to her. I do believe he is a generally good person (unlike the OM in her other EA). I only say this as it's part of the confrontation plan I'm trying to form, I think he's a coward and an idiot in the end.
> 
> I think my wife is a selfish cake eater. She is a good person and I know she loves me and wants a life with me but I think she is getting caught up in the addiction of an EA. She is obviously addicted to the OM emotionally. The fact that she's starting lying to me makes me worry as she's getting deeper and getting more comfortable with it. I feel like she is only slightly withdrawn from our marriage, it really feels like she is trying to balance two relationships and not chose one over the other.
> 
> My plan:
> 
> The wife and I go on a very expensive vacation at the end of the week for 9 days. I'm going to tell her before we leave that she needs to cut contact with the OM during this trip. I fully expect her not to so I'm bringing along my VAR. I've also been tempted to contact him and tell him to back off while we're on vacation but I can't decide if that's a good move or not. As a more sneaky move, I've thought of contacting my brother (who works for our cell provider) and asking him to shut her phone off during the trip and blaming it on the carrier having issues. We will be out at sea in Canadian waters and cell phone use is stupid expensive in that circumstance anyway. I know this all sounds petty but we've been looking forward to this trip for a year and I really want to preserve it to some extent. It's too late to cancel it for any refund and we are highly financially invested in it.
> 
> In the meantime, I need to get a hard copy of her facebook convo with the OM.
> 
> After we get back from the trip, I plan on confronting. With the facebook conversations and proof that she lied about her plans on multiple occasions, I feel I have enough proof. Sometimes I doubt that but I think that's just me trying to negotiate down the significance of the EA. I was also thinking of presenting her with logs showing how much time she spends calling him each week (hours and hours on the phone on top of the facebooking, working together and hanging out outside of work).
> 
> I was thinking of initiating the confrontation by asking her to let me see their facebook convos. I can say with the utmost certainty she will try to find a way out of that. It seems like I'm trying to catch her in one last lie to enforce my position but I'm not sure if that's worth it or not.
> 
> I've also thought of confronting him immediately after her. He's a coward and I think it might be productive to figuratively hit him upside the head but it's such a highly debated topic here that I have trouble forming a strict opinion in favor of either doing it or not doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I've spent countless hours reading about EAs on here and people's experiences. I'll admit that finding myself in this situation again is surreal in a way. I don't want it to be happening and part of me doesn't want to believe it's happening. Part of me still thinks I'm overreacting. I want to think the best of my wife and her love for me but it's such a defeating circumstance to be in. I truly love her and I will give my absolute best to make our marriage work but the horizon looks so dim right now. My goals to have a life and family with her feel so dimmed by the blow to my self esteem and the fear of future EAs (with her now being a repeat offender). I know I'm expected to feel this way and we can work to recover from it and better our marriage, it's just such a crappy situation to be in. I truly empathize with anyone who's experienced any form of infidelity and I just wish our partners could have any idea what they're putting us through.
> 
> I'm here to get opinions on my uncertainties about approaching this and to simply "talk" about what I'm going through so thank you for any feedback and thank you for reading my long wall of text.


I have not read the rest of the trhead yet. I am amazed you have let this go on so long.

You cannot go NC for a few days. The bottomline is she must go NC with this guy forever AND she is going to need to get a new job because of this.

You needed to get this early. Too late for that now. This may have gone physical but if you wish to save your marriage you have to take an extreme step. Your chances for sublety and nuance have passed you by since you did not take steps soon enough. If this has not gone to a PA maybe you can stop it before it does.

For the life of me I cannot understand how you could put up with your wife repeatedly dating this guy. Once would have been too much for me.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lostagainea said:


> The thing to note here is that the OMGF has been persistent at stopping their friendship. She keeps making requests and demands to him to stop contact with her but he refuses. My wife constantly mocks what a control freak the OMGF is to the OM. This might be one of the reasons I held off, I didn't want the same labels, but in retrospect, she seems to have more vigilance than me.
> 
> I've thought about contacting her to exchange "stories" and such but I don't want her to tell the OM and the OM to tell my wife and force them to go more underground before I confront. Maybe I'll add her to the list of people to contact after I confront.


Right he has chosen your wife over his GF. This is a big hint to you.

A man who fears what someone would call him is completely lost.

Forget exchanging stories. Your wife needs to NC immediately.


----------



## Entropy3000

lovelygirl said:


> Are you sure you want to block the signal of her mobile carrier while on vacation?
> The truth is that even if she won't be able to talk to him, she'll THINK about him...but you won't know exactly what she'll be thinking about him.
> The unknown is worse than the known truth that hurts.
> 
> What if you let her mobile carrier work and see how far she goes by talking to him? Will this vacation (that you've been waiting for so long) be more or less important to her than the OM?
> You'll have an answer soon.
> 
> If she keeps on lying more and more, this way you'll be more convinced of the fact that she's playing you and when you get back from the vacation you'll have a cold mind to think clearly.


The WS will think about the AP during NC. It takes much longer than nine days to have its impact.


----------



## Will_Kane

I just read this thread and you are blowing this big time.

Hopefully your wife did not get physical with this guy yet.

What are you waiting for?

She lied to you about seeing this guy multiple times, and you just let it keep happening?

You don't think it has gone physical yet? Are you waiting until it does? Even your wife can't believe what you're putting up with (He finally got mad.)

You have all the evidence you need.

Confront her now and straighten this out.

Bring up the EA from when you were engaged. Show her the amount of time spent, the flirty nature of the messages, and the lying. Tell her it is unacceptable.

Expose to the other man's girlfriend. Don't tell your wife you are doing this.

Your wife is going to have to quit her job. Sounds harsh, and you may not think so now, but wait a month and you will agree.

She must handwrite a no contact letter. Full transparency on her accounts and devices. Account for her whereabouts.

Trust me, she is in this thing way, way deeper than you think. You are going to have one heck of a struggle on your hands to get her to give up her good male friend with the beautiful blue eyes and cute butt. She is "in love" with him. She loves you but is not "in love" with you. Expect that when you confront. Expect her to tell you that she is "not sure" about her feelings for you anymore and she "needs space" to figure things out. All code for she wants to be free to see if she can hook up with other man.

Personally, married a year and a half with no kids, if she put up any resistance to my requests, I'd walk away and not look back. Lying to you about spending time with another guy, the amount of time and effort she puts into the other guy, and the inappropriate flirting and reference to you (he finally got mad) - I would get out even if she did agree to my conditions. She did this once already and suffered no consequences, now she's doing it again. You're in for a lot of pain if you stay with her. She's not worth it from out here in cyberspace. You say she's a "good person," but what good is that if she's not good to you?


----------



## happyman64

LostAgainEA


Please update us and let us know you are ok.....


----------



## Lostagainea

_Posted via Mobile Device_
Oop, trouble posting from phone. Anyway, to my surprise, her car was at work. I thought that maybe they left her car and took his so I waited around for a while and watched from a distance and did confirm that she was there the whole time. She met me after work to do a few things. She did take a call from him last night and I have a new var message to listen to in a couple hours. I'll say I'm disappointed that she as telling the truth because that possible lie had me ready to do it. The plan was and shall remain to contact the omgf and meet only if she's not going to make me wait days to meet her. After that I am drawing a very hard line in the sand. I just need to get that fire under my ass that I had yesterday. I'm afraid it might not come until we get back and I expect to take a hard time for that here and I know I have it coming. Thanks, likely more to come after I check the var.


----------



## Chaparral

Your wife is in love with another man. What kind of special plans do you think they have since she is going to have to be away from him so long on a crappy vacation with you? Your just fiddling around while your marriage burns.


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> After that I am drawing a very hard line in the sand. I just need to get that fire under my ass that I had yesterday. I'm afraid it might not come until we get back and I expect to take a hard time for that here and I know I have it coming. Thanks, likely more to come after I check the var.


First off, I'm glad for you she was where she said she was going to be. You don't deserve to be screwed with.

Once again, I strongly advise that you do not allow her to meet with him ever again, starting from right this minute. Waiting for vacation is not soon enough. This has to stop now. If you need a visual that will get a fire lit under your ass, PM me and I'll give it to you.


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## Chaparral

Was the OM at work with her?


----------



## Lostagainea

chapparal said:


> Was the OM at work with her?


No he wasn't, he had the day off. Their company posts their schedules to an online access service and I've had access to it since they started using it. His car wasn't there either. 

They work in a busy, tight-knit vet clinic. There's really no discrete locations there and there are no situations where they would be the only two there. I just say this to reassure myself but I'm learning better than to underestimate any situation.


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> There's really no discrete locations there and there are no situations where they would be the only two there. I just say this to reassure myself _*but I'm learning better than to underestimate any situation*_.


Happy to see that your thinking is changing a bit. Please keep us posted, let us know what was on the VAR and above all, *TAKE NOTHING FOR GRANTED*.


----------



## Lostagainea

Listened to the VAR and sadly there isn't much there. I had looked out once or twice while she was on the phone and noticed she was leaning forward in the chair and not relaxed back like usual. This means she was farther away from the VAR. The only thing it picked up was her saying "I started packing" (we started packing for the trip last night). I'm going to reconsider the positioning of the VAR as it's already turned to high pickup.

I also got a look at her facebook and call logs this morning. They weren't in contact much via facebook, just a couple messages. They had 4 calls yesterday, 2 we under 2 min, 1 was 7 min when she was waiting for me at the mall and the call in the evening that the VAR didn't pick up was 17 min.

Since having access to listen to that first call on the VAR, I'm really getting irked when I can't be privy to every conversation. I've considered putting the VAR in her car but she doesn't seem to call him while driving. I know I could have caught some things in the car before now though had I bought a VAR sooner.


----------



## Shaggy

Where was she sitting when she made the 17 minute call?


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea

I know you are not going to agree with me and some of the others may not as well, but I can't emphasize enough that, while you have gotten more serious regarding "Friendship", you are still moving too slowly. The time has come for you and your wife to have the "I'm not comfortable with this Friendship" discussion. You have to let her know in no uncertain terms that you are uncomfortable with her calling, texting and going out with this "guy friend" any longer AND it must end immediately; no ifs, ands, or buts. Speak with as little emotion as possible. She needs to understand that you can't live with this man being in your lives and that she is disrespecting you. I don't know if divorce is in your current thought process right now, but your wife should understand that if she doesn't give this "friend" up, this could mean separation or divorce. She needs to respect your wishes regarding this (no threats just he should understand the consequences).

Please be firm and put your foot down. I just don't understand the waiting; could you explain that.


----------



## Lostagainea

The Middleman said:


> Please be firm and put your foot down. I just don't understand the waiting; could you explain that.


I thought about this for a little bit, I guess I needed to explain it to myself a little better. Maybe I am just in a fog of denial and fear. I also feel like I need to know more about what's going on and how bad it really is. I also feel like I want to be selfish and enjoy my wife's companionship and sex on this trip we've been looking forward to for so long. If she is withdrawn and uninterested during the trip, I will confront her before we get home.

In the meantime, she does not have time or chance to meet outside of work with the OM before we depart. If she does try to conjure something up to make time, I'll find out about it. I'm also currently getting a more full set of call logs dating back farther than I've looked as well as getting everything set to attempt a meet with the OMGF once we're back. I don't want to meet with her before I'm about to confront because I don't want my wife to have a chance at getting a heads up on it.

I know I waited too long already due to denail and fear and I might be making the same mistake again but it's what I feel I have to do.

On the stronger side of things, I am not doing this how I did the first time. I am not negotiating on NC and I am going to the OMGF (before my wife) and OM (after my wife) with this. I know my live in sister-in-law (wife's side) is going to be caught up in this and I'm going to have a copy of the facebook conversations ready for her as well.

Looking over her call logs for the last few months is interesting, I'm going to look in detail in a second but there seems to be a very obvious point where call volume between them picks up.


----------



## The Middleman

This post, more than all your previous posts, shows that you are on top of the situation and thinking clearly. I tend to be the "do it now" type of person. I don't like to leave things to chance and I don't like taking a risk where my wife/family is concerned. I still think confronting quickly it's the best thing to do, but I'm not in your shoes. You have to do whats right in your heart.

I hope things go your way, but what ever you do, don't let her meet with this azzhole alone again under any circumstances. Other than that, I wish you the best of luck. You know we're in your corner.


----------



## Lostagainea

Thank you for the opinion, I do appreciate every contribution here. I also just got off the phone with my brother. He was very supportive the last time this happened and I was his go to ear when his wife cheated on him and he subsequently cheated on her. It's good insight from both sides there.

Anyway, I broke up the calls by # of calls and total minutes with the OM by week. I want to compare this to their facebook conversations and just observe the trends. It's a pretty obvious trend on the phone calls, comparing this to the context of facebook chats should be interesting.

Aug 22-28 18 calls 138 minutes
Aug 15-21 16 calls 150 minutes
Aug 8-14 5 calls 38 minutes
Aug 1-7 7 calls 30 minutes
Jul 25-31 16 calls 62 minutes
Jul 18-24 3 calls 7 minutes
Jul 11-17 3 calls 6 minutes
Jul 4-10 6 calls 13 minutes
Jun 27-3 6 calls 12 minutes
Jun 20-26 1 calls 2 minutes
Jun 13-19 7 calls 23 minutes
Jun 6-12 1 calls 2 minutes


----------



## Shaggy

Wow they are up to a couple hours per week on the phone. Yeah hardcore EA going on here.

Expect them to really try to hook up before your trip and immediately afterward too.


----------



## The Middleman

Your data certainly tells a very clear story. I'd accidentally step on her phone if I were you.


----------



## Jonesey

Im not trying to bash you.Or imply that you are wimp..

But please help understand WHY The Ghandi approach?

OMG i fighting for her relationship,like her life depended on it.

But you? I dont know what to think.Rewording her with an expensive vacation.. Why? Why getting surprised and disappointed.

When you find out that she keeps doing it..

I just dont get it.


----------



## happyman64

LostAgainEA

While you are at put their calls and minutes in a spreadsheet in a left hand column and all her calls to you in the right hand column.

That will really be enlightening for her soon!!!

It might just piss you off too when you see the difference!!!


----------



## Chaparral

I don't believe you answered the question as how your sex life is and whether or not it has changed in the last year. Also has she changed any techniques?

Many women start wearing new sexy underwear that hubby never sees. Have you checked this?


----------



## jh52

Lostagainea said:


> Thank you for the opinion, I do appreciate every contribution here. I also just got off the phone with my brother. He was very supportive the last time this happened and I was his go to ear when his wife cheated on him and he subsequently cheated on her. It's good insight from both sides there.
> 
> Anyway, I broke up the calls by # of calls and total minutes with the OM by week. I want to compare this to their facebook conversations and just observe the trends. It's a pretty obvious trend on the phone calls, comparing this to the context of facebook chats should be interesting.
> 
> Aug 22-28 18 calls 138 minutes
> Aug 15-21 16 calls 150 minutes
> Aug 8-14 5 calls 38 minutes
> Aug 1-7 7 calls 30 minutes
> Jul 25-31 16 calls 62 minutes
> Jul 18-24 3 calls 7 minutes
> Jul 11-17 3 calls 6 minutes
> Jul 4-10 6 calls 13 minutes
> Jun 27-3 6 calls 12 minutes
> Jun 20-26 1 calls 2 minutes
> Jun 13-19 7 calls 23 minutes
> Jun 6-12 1 calls 2 minutes


During this period --- how many calls did wife place to you?

Plus they are increasing every week.

Think you need to wake up my friend.

This is her 2nd EA if not PA already.


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## Acabado

Also if they text (add the time) and chat (add the time) and the F2F conversations at work (guess the time) you will be shocked at the amount of time/energy wasted/drained from the marriage.
I'd print it for her to see in case she come out of the fog (don't reveal your sources, ever)


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## Lostagainea

There is so much to process here and I do appreciate every bit of advice but don't judge my hesitation too harshly. Ultimately the decisions I make here affect my life and I need to fully come to term with what I want. I'm sorting through everything including if I think there is a future here worth fighting for or what a future would or should look like if I stay. Either way I am not a doormat and I will do what's best for me.

Today has been an emotional rollercoaster to say the least. I look at my wife and wonder how deep in the fog she is, if she even knows what's transpiring. This is a tough situation and I'm not taking anything lightly. I'm sure anyone here knows at least some of what I'm going through and that is very helpful. It's also sad to think about how many have endured this pain.

Good night all and thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr

She had her chance to learn from her first EA so if you just want out I would not blame you.

If you do not want out then two things you must do.
1. Have the friends talk and NC and watch.
2. Go on vacation and have her read "Not just friends" during that nine day separation from him. She probably thinks no one understands how dreamy she feels. That book can show her it's just biology focking with her if she pays attention to it.


----------



## betrayed2012

I feel for u buddy. And right before a trip too. You gotta wonder if u dont say anything to her, if she'll be all distant during the trip and you know why for sure. But if u confront her before the trip then that could ruin it all. I wish i had good advice for you. Im battling my own demons right now with my wife. I think its obvious she digs this dude and im not sure how she is with you as of late but the log of calls are immense at this point. I busted my wife on FB and still check her msgs but im guessing she deletes everything that might seem bothersome to me. She hides her phone too when shes in the shower. She knows i'll check i guess. I wish I could trust my wife but right now I cant. Im guessing u feel the same. Hang in there dude, its gonna get worse before it gets better. Trust ur gut.


----------



## Lostagainea

Thanks Betrayed. I learned from the first time that I can't let on to what I know until I'm ready to move. I'm sure mine would be trying harder to cover her tracks too now if she had any idea what I know.



> I don't believe you answered the question as how your sex life is and whether or not it has changed in the last year. Also has she changed any techniques?


Sex has been in our typical rythm and has not changed as of recently. I am well aware to watch for anything new and I'm going to be very watchful to how responsive she is to sex on this trip. 

I would like to think that if it went PA, she would be so wracked with guilt that she would either confess or be unable to engage with me. Of course any optimistic assumptions are a bit ridiculous at this point.

Meeting my brother for lunch today which will be helpful, anything to help ease these terrible feelings that keep twisting my stomach and head is helpful. We then head off to the airport this evening for the first leg of our trip. Eventually I won't have reliable internet access but I will be back here as often as I can.


----------



## Shaggy

Keep a close eye on her. Do not let her slip off for walks, etc. this is when she will try to contact him to get her next hit.

View your trip like a detox stay and do your best to prevent her drinking from the EA well.

Maybe even suggest you both put the cell phones away for the entire trip?


----------



## happyman64

Shaggy said:


> Keep a close eye on her. Do not let her slip off for walks, etc. this is when she will try to contact him to get her next hit.
> 
> View your trip like a detox stay and do your best to prevent her drinking from the EA well.
> 
> Maybe even suggest you both put the cell phones away for the entire trip?


:iagree:

Excellent suggestion. Ditch the phones.


----------



## Lostagainea

Shaggy said:


> Keep a close eye on her. Do not let her slip off for walks, etc. this is when she will try to contact him to get her next hit.
> 
> View your trip like a detox stay and do your best to prevent her drinking from the EA well.
> 
> Maybe even suggest you both put the cell phones away for the entire trip?


We pretty much have to on a cruise ship anyway unless we want to come back to a $500 cell bill. I already explained this to her so we will see how it goes. If she doesn't seem to want to abide (which I'm almost expecting), I'm planning to have my brother (works for the provider) be ready to suspend our phones on command and just blame it on an account issue we can't fix until we're back. Sounds underhanded but at least I don't think it will cost me the moral high ground :rofl:


----------



## Acabado

Depending on how deep is into OM, the very moment the service us down you will see the anxiety in her face, maybe she will become short and bad tempered. Withdrawal. It's not going to be nice, man.


----------



## lordmayhem

Acabado said:


> Depending on how deep is into OM, the very moment the service us down you will see the anxiety in her face, maybe she will become short and bad tempered. Withdrawal. It's not going to be nice, man.


:iagree:

And if she acts as if nothing is wrong or suddenly becomes happy again....then that means she's acquired a burner phone.


----------



## Lostagainea

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And if she acts as if nothing is wrong or suddenly becomes happy again....then that means she's acquired a burner phone.


Rates to use our cell provider on our ship are $2.99 a min for calls, $0.50 per outgoing text, $0.15 per incoming text and $1.99 per mb of data. I doubt a prepaid phone would even allow service in this situation and if it did, the sudden disappearance of half a mortgage payment might be a tip off lol.


----------



## Shaggy

Don't forget about on board email and text services or places in ports of call.

And look for a potential burner phone.

From stories I've heard from others that go away with a wife in an EA like yours, it is very common for her to immediately need to contact him as soon as you get back. So maybe plan ahead and see if you can keep her off the air even upon return, the temp service interruption idea might just work wonders.

See during the excitement of the trip she can put off her need for the EA hit fix, but once back at the end of the trip she will have the urge to jump back into her daily routine, which includes the EA.


----------



## lordmayhem

Shaggy said:


> From stories I've heard from others that go away with a wife in an EA like yours, it is very common for her to immediately need to contact him as soon as you get back. So maybe plan ahead and see if you can keep her off the air even upon return, the temp service interruption idea might just work wonders.
> 
> See during the excitement of the trip she can put off her need for the EA hit fix, but once back at the end of the trip she will have the urge to jump back into her daily routine, which includes the EA.


:iagree:

Now this is exactly right, including my own situation. My fWW didn't have the chance at all to contact her OM during our vacation because I was with her all the time. And she seemed perfectly fine and the records show that she was not in contact with OM. But within the first hour of getting home.....yeah, she had to immediately contact him and I was completely unaware. We had some really great sex during the vacation and I didn't suspect at all that she was missing OM and wishing he was there.


----------



## Sbrown

I'd keep an eye on her on the ship as well. It wouldn't be the first time the OM/OW went on a vacation, that just happen to be the same vacation as your family.


----------



## lordmayhem

Sbrown said:


> I'd keep an eye on her on the ship as well. It wouldn't be the first time the OM/OW went on a vacation, that just happen to be the same vacation as your family.


There's a story on here about that. I just can't remember the poster and his name. Or I think it was the one where the WW supposedly went on a cruise with her sisters, but the OM came along and posed as her husband.


----------



## Lostagainea

Sbrown said:


> I'd keep an eye on her on the ship as well. It wouldn't be the first time the OM/OW went on a vacation, that just happen to be the same vacation as your family.


Thank you for the advice but it's not a concern. Their place of employment would be unable to operate with both of them out of town, they would have to create a false work schedule (since I can access their whole companies schedule) for him that their bosses would know is faulty, and ultimately he couldn't afford the trip.

I know my situation is bad but wow, I can't imagine what something that extreme would do to me. I'd probably throw both of them off the boat.



> Now this is exactly right, including my own situation. My fWW didn't have the chance at all to contact her OM during our vacation because I was with her all the time. And she seemed perfectly fine and the records show that she was not in contact with OM. But within the first hour of getting home.....yeah, she had to immediately contact him and I was completely unaware. We had some really great sex during the vacation and I didn't suspect at all that she was missing OM and wishing he was there.


It's sad to say because it's such a comprimise from what this trip could have been but this is kind of my best case scenario. She enjoys the trip with me, doesn't contact the OM and the second she slaps me back to reality by contacting him upon return, I slap her back to reality by confronting.

I think it would be delusional of me to think that nine days will end her addiction and truly believing this trip will go one way or another is naive. I'm also ready to confront during the trip if she can't have a good time.


----------



## Thundarr

I know this has been said already but no matter what happens, keeping her job should be a deal breaker. Different job or no R. That's not optional in reality.


----------



## fishfast41

If she still loves you,she will stop this immediately. Confront her with the proof now, and force her to make a choice,immediately.If she won't stop, than get a lawyer and start divorce proceedings. Infidelity is a willful act, and your wife's behavior WILL proceed to the physical very soon, if it hasn't already. Your plan seems good to me, except I think you need to start it now, and not wait another 9 days

Good Luck,man


----------



## Lostagainea

Well back from vacation. As of 30 minutes ago I've moved to pissed off but it's been an interesting few days (and longer since Ive posted).

The trip went pretty well. We did have a lot of fun and enjoyed our time together. She had no contact with the OM during the trip though she did try. She tried to get her phone on a couple of times but couldn't get a data connection to take hits on facebook. The only thing that really bothers me about the trip is that we only had middle of the night sex and did not make love at all the entire trip. I guess if she's emotionally attached to someone else, making love to me might be a little less important eh?

After the trip, I felt good about us. I knew I was in a bit of a fog but I hoped that their time away from contact would allow them each to see the value of their primary relationships. It sort of worked, I guess the OM and OMGF didn't fight the entire time we were gone.

The day we got back was very late and there wasn't much chance for them to talk as late as it was. Moving onto Sunday, they started with a nice hour long chat on the phone. I tried to listen in to some of it and it was a lot of small talk though the tone of her voice made me want to throw up (that sweet tone she had with me when we were dating). We were planning on going together to pick up her sister from the airport that evening but she offered to do it herself so I could finish the football game. Checking the phone logs today, she spent 43 minutes on the phone with him. Thats about exactly how long the drive would have been to the airport before her sister would have been in the car. 

Last night I set the VAR up in the room and sure enough, she had a nice 80 minute chat with him last night. I took off in the middle of it for a drive and didn't tell anyone where I was going, I needed to clear my head. She was pissed I did this and locked the door but I just told her I went to the store and laughed at her on the inside. I kind of wonder if she thought I heard something and took off out of anger. Anyway, the VAR didn't get much despite what seemed like a great location. I overheard a little and once again, the tone in her voice made me want to throw up. I'm giving up on the pursuit of more evidence, I've heard enough.

Anyway, I keep trying to reason with myself, downplay the significance of this and after viewing the call logs (183 min in 2 days) I'm f---ing done. 

I contacted the OMGF this morning via facebook (not expecting response till tonight) and I'm going to pick up a copy of "Not Just Friends" today on my way home. Ideally I'll coordinate my confrontation with the OMGF doing one with the OM, we will both insist on NC. I plan on following the model to confront that Affaircare laid out in this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/14943-so-now-i-have-evidence-ea-next.html and having the book available for us both to read. 

If the OMGF doesn't want to be in contact with me and coordinate at all, I'll move ahead without her by the end of the week. (The letter I wrote the OMGF just vaguely stated how I believe we share an opinion on their "friendship" and I would like to exchange information and stories as it were.)


This post is getting long but I've crossed a line. I will not deal with this in my marriage and it will not simply go away. I'm taking the best path of action for me and my marriage and no matter what happens, I'll know I did the right thing. I won't keep feeling like I have for the past 2 months.


----------



## Shaggy

Strengthen yourself and have the resolve it's going to take to see this through because she is going to fight back hard. She is going to deny and call you controlling. But stay true to your goal.

If she refuses to listen them stop talking and you leave for a time.

Make sure to have a var in her car.

Shes in very very deep here and she will be feeling the high from her renewed contact with the OM. 

Do not negotiate with her and do not accept anything less than full NC along with full openness from her. Youve seen she will happily let you think she is letting you watch football so she can get away and have her fix.

Don't be surprised if this is already a PA btw. Be on the watch for them meeting up now that your back.


----------



## warlock07

Commence more tears and apologies and how bad a wife she is and promises to change..


Do you plan to reveal all your evidence ?


----------



## daggeredheart

Yes, brace yourself for the "withdrawal" from the affair addiction and that is almost worse than Dday itself. 

Course by then you might be done with her as well. I have to say you have the patience of Job because there is no way I would have been able to go on vacation, much less have sex with someone I thought was in love with the OM. 

Also, figure out your plan to 180 because I fear she will just go underground especially since they work together, how could it not. I'm thinking stone cold 180 gone is just the ice cold water bath she need to wake up and let OM meet all her needs, you will quickly see this thing die. 

In fact, affairs almost need the spouse (triangle) to keep alive don't they, and if you refuse to be a part of their _ oh darn we can't be together_ love affair.....it will end that much quicker.


----------



## Lostagainea

warlock07 said:


> Commence more tears and apologies and how bad a wife she is and promises to change..
> 
> 
> Do you plan to reveal all your evidence ?


No, as per advice I've seen, I will tell her that I have evidence and I will give her enough information to prove it. If I tell her that I have facebook chat files and VAR recordings and phone logs, she could just change her passwords, look for recorders and get a dummy phone. Of course it's hard either way because it's not like they ever say in facebook chat "hey let's have an emotional affair". I doubt she will even grasp what an EA is when I confront her. I'm guess that right now she thinks if she's still "communicating" with me and not having a PA, it's not cheating.


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## Entropy3000

Folks in an EA may not even know what an EA is. They do not care. They just must have their fix.

She needed to stay NC with this guy.

You know there really is nothing to prove here unless you wish to prove she is in an PA.

The fact she is still in contact is the issue. Not what they talk about or anything else. 

You need to tell her that her having contact with this guy is a deal breaker you will not accept. You do not have to prove anything.


----------



## sandc

And if she breaks NC after you confront her, then what? Make sure you have a plan ready for that contingency. My advice would be do the 180 and file for D. If she comes around and you can R with her then you don't need to go through with D. But the threat D is like a big 2x4 to the head of a person who has character but seems to have lost their way. If they have no character, well then...


----------



## warlock07

Lostagainea said:


> No, as per advice I've seen, I will tell her that I have evidence and I will give her enough information to prove it. If I tell her that I have facebook chat files and VAR recordings and phone logs, she could just change her passwords, look for recorders and get a dummy phone. Of course it's hard either way because it's not like they ever say in facebook chat "hey let's have an emotional affair". I doubt she will even grasp what an EA is when I confront her. I'm guess that right now she thinks if she's still "communicating" with me and not having a PA, it's not cheating.


Don't tell her what you know. Only that you know a lot more than she thinks. Get her to confess.


----------



## The Middleman

While it's sad to hear your news, I'm happy to see you now have the right attitude. I can't believe how ungrateful and selfish she is. You had such a great vacation and now she is screwing you by being on the phone with this guy.

All I'm going to say is that you need to make it as difficult as possible to have any contact with this guy if she continues to insist upon it. When she is on the phone with him just stay in the room and listen. If she goes to another room, then follow her. If she goes out to meet him after work, invite yourself along. If they don’t want you there go anyway (Like he’s going to stop you?) Be a hemorrhoid to both of them until they are sick of you. If she changes passwords, disconnect the internet service, cancel her phone service. Do whatever it takes, right up to D.

I’m sorry if it sounds childish, but that is the way that I’d handle it if my wife continued to disrespect my feelings.


----------



## Lostagainea

Ah another morning in this nightmare. So my wife and the OM spent a good amount of time chatting on facebook last night. I decided to let it go since I would get plenty of stuff to read on her phone this morning. This one I read this morning was by far and away the most unsettling. They were talking about unimportant stuff when my wife threw out a complaint that her knees hurt. She mentioned something about how a massage would be nice. He said "do you wish I was there?" She said it wouldn't be good but her feet say yes. The next few lines gave 99% confirmation that at a minimum, their physical contact has included a foot massage. They went on to start making plans for today. A bunch more disgusting comments like "anything for you beautiful" were thrown around. I don't think I need to state how this made me feel but rage would come in 1st place.

I went on to check my phone and to my relief, the OMGF did respond to me last night. She said a lot of what I expected but the two things I didn't expect were that she knows that my W and the OM have been confronted at work multiple times about how they interact with each other. The other part was that the OM told the OMGF that he was stopping contact with my W a couple weeks ago. The OMGF is completely in the dark about any contact they've had post vacation (so I told her) and I also told her about contact they had shortly before we left as I fear she is in the dark about a lot of stuff.

I hate to be the messenger, I know how I'd feel in her shoes. 

I'm trying to initiate more immediate contact with her by phone or in person but I expect she will fly off the handle when she knows he didn't cease contact at all. In light of that, I'm pulling my wife's entire facebook conversation with him, printing it and storing it. Anything this morning should have more clues as to what they were planning today but that should be irrelevent soon enough. She will most likely need to stop home after work before going out with him today and that is when this ends. I'm confronting her when she gets home from work, then I'm calling the OM and telling him to stay the f___ away from my wife. I'll also let the OMGF know what has transpired. If she doesn't come home from work before going out, I'll deal with that when it comes.

After my rage faded, I felt reflective. I went about my normal morning routine which involves interacting with my wife. I didn't let on that anything was up but everytime she would make eye contact with me or say "I love you", I'd just wonder who this stranger is that's staring back at me and flinging around empty terms of endearment. I hate her right now.


----------



## warlock07

How many ultimatums ? How many EA's ?


----------



## Lostagainea

> How many ultimatums ? How many EA's ?


Hmm? I guess I'm missing your point. Is it about her and whether or not I should just straight up D? It crossed my mind to skip confrontation and just go file the papers and let her getting served D papers be the confrontation.

In the big picture, I really do deeply love her and outside of what she's doing to us now, I've still been very much in love with her. When I married her, I vowed that I would always be willing to attempt to work through anything because that's what I believe sets apart couples who last and those who don't. Now it is a two way street and at this point, I'm not sure she has it in her to do what it takes to recover this.

I am prepared to work on our marriage (only after complete NC, that includes one of them quitting their job) and I will try but I'm also prepared to accept that there is a large chance this marriage will not survive.



tdwal said:


> Its time to be bold and stop it.


That is exactly what I'm doing today.


----------



## Sbrown

I'm betting lunch, it is already a PA.


----------



## sandc

Sbrown said:


> I'm betting lunch, it is already a PA.


I'm in. But I'm betting with you. Think we're going to find anyone to bet against us and buy lunch? :scratchhead:


----------



## The Middleman

Dude, I don’t know what your plan is for today seeing as you haven’t told us, but you have a huge issue that is going to explode in your face and is getting worse by the minute. You aren’t helping yourself by sitting on your butt, gathered facts and not doing a freakin’ thing! The time has come to:


Demand No Contact
Send OMW the print outs of the conversation
CALL THE OM AND TELL HIM TO BACK THE F AWAY

If this doesn’t stop things

Contact the company’s HR department and expose, claim harassment (even if it’s not true, the company will react)
Delete her Facebook account (to show you aren’t kidding with her)
Feel free to cancel her cell phone
Disconnect your internet service

Stop being passive with your marriage my friend. Don't make it easy for them to be together. What is she going to do? Leave you?

I'm not sure why I feel so passionate about your situation since you started posting, but I really want to grab you by the shoulders and shake you up a bit and maybe smack some sense into you because you just don't move! 

Take a look at my posting:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ition-anyway-did-i-over-react.html#post726990


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> Hmm? I guess I'm missing your point. Is it about her and whether or not I should just straight up D? It crossed my mind to skip confrontation and just go file the papers and let her getting served D papers be the confrontation.


Let me ask you a question. Do you have a problem with confrontation? Not only with your wife but in general. This could be a big reason why this situation is a runaway freight train and you are being run over.

Don't throw the D bomb right away. Why use the nuclear option? Are you not willing to bloody yourself with real skirmishes? You haven't even fired a freakin' shot yet my friend!

If you love your wife like you say you do, fight for her, don't just sit there.


----------



## Lostagainea

The Middleman said:


> Dude, I don’t know what your plan is for today seeing as you haven’t told us, but you have a huge issue that is going to explode in your face and is getting worse by the minute. You aren’t helping yourself by sitting on your butt, gathered facts and not doing a freakin’ thing! The time has come to:
> 
> 
> Demand No Contact
> Send OMW the print outs of the conversation
> CALL THE OM AND TELL HIM TO BACK THE F AWAY
> 
> If this doesn’t stop things
> 
> Contact the company’s HR department and expose, claim harassment (even if it’s not true, the company will react)
> Delete her Facebook account (to show you aren’t kidding with her)
> Feel free to cancel her cell phone
> Disconnect your internet service
> 
> Stop being passive with your marriage my friend. Don't make it easy for them to be together. What is she going to do? Leave you?
> 
> I'm not sure why I feel so passionate about your situation since you started posting, but I really want to grab you by the shoulders and shake you up a bit and maybe smack some sense into you because you just don't move!
> 
> Take a look at my posting:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ition-anyway-did-i-over-react.html#post726990


You must not have read thoroughly or didn't go back far enough but I've stated what I'm doing today..



> She will most likely need to stop home after work before going out with him today and that is when this ends. I'm confronting her when she gets home from work, then I'm calling the OM and telling him to stay the f___ away from my wife. I'll also let the OMGF know what has transpired. If she doesn't come home from work before going out, I'll deal with that when it comes.


I literally can't do it sooner as we're both at work right now.

As for the plan, I'll consolidate what I've previously posted. I'm confronting her based on the layout that Affaircare posted in this thread... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/14943-so-now-i-have-evidence-ea-next.html ...I'm not going to disclose what the evidence is exactly even though she will likely know it at least includes facebook. If she wants me to continue in our marriage, she will be required to write a letter of NC, unfriend him on facebook and allow me access to her facebook account. One of the two of them will have to leave their job as well. 

If she is uncooperative, I will inform more people. Her sister who lives with us will get the details right away anyway, after that it'll go to their bosses and her mother.

This is happening today no matter what. If she doesn't come home before their "date", I will go find them and invite myself along.


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> You must not have read thoroughly or didn't go back far enough but I've stated what I'm doing today..
> 
> This is happening today no matter what. If she doesn't come home before their "date", I will go find them and invite myself along.


Way to go. And I'm sorry if I missed it. Dude, I'm just feeling your pain.


----------



## aug

Lostagainea said:


> The story:
> 
> So I've been married to my wife for about a year and a half and we were together for five years before we got married. We do not have kids together though having them in the near future has been a common topic for us for a while now. We just bought our first house together this year.
> 
> A little backstory before the recent concern. Years ago, before we got married, she had an EA with a friend.



You're married only 1.5 years and she has already tuned out of the marriage? 

Shouldn't she still be in the honeymoon phase of the marriage?

Since she has done this before, she may not be into the relationship with you as she should.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Best of luck, then, Lost. Don't waver on this. You are in the right and, regardless of exactly how far their relationship has gone, it's deeply inappropriate and wrong.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Good luck , stay calm, speak clearly , don't reveal your exposure plans, dont grovel, beg, plead or negotiate, hold firm .

Something to remember; waywards lie, deny and blameshift. Its par for the course
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

All you have is a foot massage. Did you put a VAR in her car? I'm guessing by the convo's they are having, this tuned into a PA about a month ago. Did you use a keylogger on your computer? she may have an additional email account. Right now she can simply say;

"I'm sorry. I guess I got too close when I started being his shoulder to cry on. I'll go NC dear." Then they will just go underground. I wonder how many parking lots and motels they have visited in the last month?


----------



## happyman64

Lost

If you know where they are going tonight just show up. Bring a date, the OMGF. Call her now.

I am sure your wife and the OM will get the message.

And if they don't enjoy your date. 

HM64


----------



## Lostagainea

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> All you have is a foot massage. Did you put a VAR in her car? I'm guessing by the convo's they are having, this tuned into a PA about a month ago. Did you use a keylogger on your computer? she may have an additional email account. Right now she can simply say;
> 
> "I'm sorry. I guess I got too close when I started being his shoulder to cry on. I'll go NC dear." Then they will just go underground. I wonder how many parking lots and motels they have visited in the last month?


Ya, all I have are facebook convos and bits and pieces of recorded calls. I've had her computer under watch and keylogger for a while now, if she has any other accounts, they are not being accessed there. Her phone would be the only way. 

I am prepared that today will not go well, I know she will blame shift and deny for sure. If she pretends to go NC and doesn't, I'll more than likely catch it. She's not near clever enough to work around me nor does she have the free time. Working with the OMGF will be a big help in monitering what goes on after today as well.

One of the most frustrating things is I may never know if it went full blown PA unless she confesses. At this point I'm assuming it has though. 

She's scheduled to be off in 4 more hours, everything goes from there. In the meantime, I'm trying to keep calm and clear headed and prep myself.


----------



## Lifeisnotsogood2

Still don't think it's a good idea. VAR, VAR, VAR in the CAR. She will deny at this point and you do not have a smoking gun.


----------



## The Middleman

Lifeisnotsogood2 said:


> Still don't think it's a good idea. VAR, VAR, VAR in the CAR. She will deny at this point and you do not have a smoking gun.


Sorry Lifeisnotsogood2, but I don't understand this post. You don't think he has to stop them from meeting now? Before it gets out of hand? He needs to wait for a smoking gun? Please explain because I'm not getting it. He's her husband and all he has to say is I don't want you hanging with another guy. Period. What is the issue? I don't think that waiting until this guy is doing push ups on his wife is a good idea.


----------



## sandc

Lostagainea said:


> One of the most frustrating things is I may never know if it went full blown PA unless she confesses. At this point I'm assuming it has though.


I'm assuming it's a PA as well. Just DO NOT tip your hand on the extent of what you know. Act AS IF you know it's already gone physical. Make her think you've already got all the evidence. Without having full evidence, that's you're best bet of getting a confession.


----------



## Shaggy

Please make sure to have a var in her car. 

When you confront one of first things she is going to do is call him first chance she getsfom her car. Have the var ready.


----------



## Shaggy

And yes, it is clearly PA.


----------



## The Middleman

We haven't heard from LOSTAGAINEA. I get the feeling that he went through hell yesterday. This poor guy has his work cut out for him.


----------



## Chaparral

Well, he said he might confront them both. Hope it went well and no jail time.


----------



## The Middleman

chapparal said:


> Well, he said he might confront them both. Hope it went well and no jail time.


I hate to say it but If it got to the cop stage, it would be his own fault for procrastinating so long. I don't know why, but I feel this guy's pain more than many of the other posters here.

Think about it, if the cops got called, his wife is 100% with the OM.


----------



## Lostagainea

Hello, I guess I need to get back here and put an end to speculation on my night. A very interesting night indeed. 

So I was waiting for her usual "omw" text when she was scheduled to be off at 3. Now it is a known and confirmed fact that her job will hold employees late A LOT. I waited up until the time when I had to go to class (I'm attending classes part time in pursuit of a degree) and during this time I constantly watched for the OM to be on facebook, which he only accesses from home. I also kept checking her cell usage, this was all to make sure that she was working late. 

Nothing turned up, she legitimately seemed to be at work (and I believe she was) until about 6:45. After class I went out to grab a drink with my brother to kill time waiting for her. She finally got home and before I went to go home, I got a call from the OMGF. She was furious to find out that the OM had lied to her about his continued contact with my wife and we went on to exchange some stories and information.

This is where things turn bad.

At the same time that he told her he was going to stop contacting her (it was either at or the day of a counseling session they had together), he also confessed a couple things to her. He admitted to the OMGF that he has feelings for my wife and that on a particular Sunday (that I vividly remember as she went "dark" for hours) that he and my wife had kissed.

Now I'm no idiot, I know a few things here. He would not make up kissing if they had not went past that stage, she would have no reason to lie to me about what he confessed and lastly and most importantly, if he admitted they kissed while at the same time lying about his cutting off contact, they did a hell of a lot more than kiss.

I immediately went into a rush of anger and adrenaline that I've never felt before and didn't come down off this "high" for hours. I contacted my wife about my whereabouts and when I'd be home and such and she was pissy as hell and obviously blame deflecting. Her sister who lives with us also reported her being a total b____ when she got home and said she immediately called the OM when she got home.

It's a tough call but I decided I was in no shape to confront when I got home. Instead, I contacted the OMGF, we both agreed we are confronting our SOs tonight in a coordinated manner.

I feel some relief that the point at which it seems it went PA was shortly after my first talk with her 3+ weeks ago about my discomfort with their relationship and before I grasped what was going on well enough to consider drawing the line in the sand. I'm sure my hesitation after realizing what I needed to do (around when I first posted here) has cost me ground as they've only likely taken it further but it was lost before then.

I don't know how other people end up feeling at this point in time and everybody is different but I logically and emotionally do not see how this marriage can stay together given how deep things have went.

Today when I get home, I'm talking to my sister-in-law (before the wife gets home) and giving her the presentation as it were. She has already agreed that she will leave the house for the confrontation. Otherwise my plan is still the same as yesterday, save for that fact that I now have to include that I know physical boundaries have been broken and the term emotional affair simply becomes affair now.

I spent some time trying to figure out my wife's huge attitude problem last night and I've narrowed it down to 2 things. Either she knows that I got her facebook (I had to change the pword and I left some spam messages to make it look like a spam botter) and **** is about to hit the fan or she was incredibly distraught that she had to work late and didn't get her "date" with the OM last night. She was in such an incredibly cheery mood tuesday night when they were planning it on facebook.

This is getting pretty long and I thank anybody sticking it out here. Anyway, as appealing as it is right now to just D, I'm going to do my best to work on the marriage if she is willing to cooperate to an extreme. I guess I feel like I just need to be sure and I need to at least try to know that I did my best and my actions weren't the direct cause of what feels like the inevitable at this point.

And don't worry, I'm controlled enough to not do anything terribly stupid that would jeopardize my individual long term future.


----------



## The Middleman

So you're convinced she's full PA with this A$$hole. Good luck dude, that would be a deal breaker for me. Maybe she was b1tchy because the A$$hole told her that his GF is on his case OR maybe the GF spilled that she has been talking to you. I hate to pick on you but you made a huge mistake by not going after her last night. I still contend that you have issues with confrontation and you would rather avoid this if you could. Unfortunately, (just like so many others here who don't want to draw the line on opposite sex friends) you allowed this to go on too far and now everything is at risk. You have no choice but to confront. I feel sorry for you man.


----------



## Lostagainea

The Middleman said:


> I hate to pick on you but you made a huge mistake by not going after her last night.


I accept that it might have been a better choice, it just felt like something I couldn't do given my state of mind. The rage and andrenaline were overwhelming, I've never felt that intense before and I knew it would affect my judgement once I got home to confront. When I did get home, I put my "everything is alright" face on and went up and gave her a kiss goodnight and said "I love you". She said "just leave me alone". As soon as I laid my head down, I was literally shaking with laughter (quietly, not out loud) at her being pissed at me.

I really don't think the OMGF spilled the beans based on the timeline of events but like a lot of things here, I can never be 100% certain.


----------



## Shaggy

Are you sure they haven't hooked up since you got back? You should ask the OMGF where he was last night. They may have been together, and he may have said something to your wife about the GF pressuring him or being onto him.


----------



## Shaggy

If they missed their date last night, and it sounds like it was a hook up session now, they are likely going to try really hard to do it today. What's your plan to c-block that today?


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> I accept that it might have been a better choice, it just felt like something I couldn't do given my state of mind. The rage and andrenaline were overwhelming, I've never felt that intense before and I knew it would affect my judgement once I got home to confront. When I did get home, I put my "everything is alright" face on and went up and gave her a kiss goodnight and said "I love you". She said "just leave me alone". As soon as I laid my head down, I was literally shaking with laughter (quietly, not out loud) at her being pissed at me.
> 
> I really don't think the OMGF spilled the beans based on the timeline of events but like a lot of things here, I can never be 100% certain.


Well, I think the OM told her "They are on to us", meaning you and his GF. Just my opinion. You got your work cut out for you tonight, assuming you go through with confronting her.

By the way, how was she this morning?

In any event, I'm in your corner.


----------



## sandc

And just my opinion, something like this trumps any kind of class. Next time you have a choice between c-blocking OM and reclaiming your wife or class... I'd not go to class if I were you.


----------



## Lostagainea

I'll address some of the above posts later but the main point Im stuck on is would the OMGF have any reason to lie to me about what the OM confessed to her?

I can't see any reason but it's always nice to get other perspectives on it...


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> I'll address some of the above posts later but the main point Im stuck on is would the OMGF have any reason to lie to me about what the OM confessed to her?
> 
> I can't see any reason but it's always nice to get other perspectives on it...


Maybe she is in her own form of denial, confusion or confrontation avoidance. Maybe she knew about it all along and is playing with you, which I doubt. All I know is that she is a GF and you are a Husband. You have much more of a vested investment in your relationship with your Wife then she has with the A$$hole. She could just throw him out or leave him and that is the end of their relationship. You are going to have two years with Lawyers to get out of your relationship with your wife.


----------



## sandc

Lostagainea said:


> I'll address some of the above posts later but the main point Im stuck on is would the OMGF have any reason to lie to me about what the OM confessed to her?
> 
> I can't see any reason but it's always nice to get other perspectives on it...



Possibly. But OM wouldn't exactly tell her the truth either, would he? 

Confront courageously. We're behind you.


----------



## Thundarr

In my opinion your next steps are the same whether you want to reconcile or divorce.

You need to read the 180 (assuming you already have) and do it. It's your only real tool to wake her up from the fog. If she's not trying hard to reconcile when you do that then it would have been a waist of time to try anyway. 

At least you gain emotional control of the situation and then the choice is more likely to be yours and not hers.

Good luck.


----------



## The Middleman

Thundarr said:


> In my opinion your next steps are the same whether you want to reconcile or divorce.
> 
> You need to read the 180 (assuming you already have) and do it. It's your only real tool to wake her up from the fog. If she's not trying hard to reconcile when you do that then it would have been a waist of time to try anyway.
> 
> At least you gain emotional control of the situation and then the choice is more likely to be yours and not hers.
> 
> Good luck.


The 180? He hasn't even confronted her yet!


----------



## Thundarr

The Middleman said:


> The 180? He hasn't even confronted her yet?


My assumption is that he's confronting her soon like he says at which point nice guy will not help anything.


----------



## The Middleman

Thundarr said:


> My assumption is that he's confronting her soon like he says at which point nice guy will not help anything.


True. I think 180 is going to be difficult for him. He's harboring resentment and anger towards her that has built up over weeks because he didn't want to confront her (which he should have done in July), he may just walk out and D out of anger. This could have easily been stopped weeks ago.


----------



## daggeredheart

Her brutal rebuffs of your bids for connections (I love you, =just leave me alone) would be a mortal wound to the soul. I have no clue how you tolerate that much less keep from pouncing with all your evidence. Are you afraid to have things be so glaring that you can't deny them anymore? 

This is your death by a thousand cuts.


----------



## Shaggy

I predict he will confront, and she will deny, cry, then leave. Once she's out the door tonight it will be to go to her "freinds" for the night, which means right into the arms of the OM.


----------



## Lostagainea

Shaggy said:


> I predict he will confront, and she will deny, cry, then leave. Once she's out the door tonight it will be to go to her "freinds" for the night, which means right into the arms of the OM.


Part of why I'm coordinating with the OMGF, if they try to meet, we will put the pieces together.

My stomach is in knots, I pine for days when I was at ease. She should be home in the next 2-3 hours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The Middleman

Shaggy said:


> I predict he will confront, and she will deny, cry, then leave. Once she's out the door tonight it will be to go to her "freinds" for the night, which means right into the arms of the OM.


I'm not so sure he will confront; I'll believe it when I read it (maybe). I think he just doesn't have it in him to do this. But if he does, you might be right about the rest. If he confronted in July, there would have been no issue. If he waits any longer the marriage is over, if it isn't already. This is a text book case of "What not to do."


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> My stomach is in knots, I pine for days when I was at ease. She should be home in the next 2-3 hours.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At Work? Elsewhere?


----------



## warlock07

> When I did get home, I put my "everything is alright" face on and went up and gave her a kiss goodnight and said "I love you". She said "just leave me alone".


What the hell !!!


----------



## sandc

Lostagainea said:


> Part of why I'm coordinating with the OMGF, if they try to meet, we will put the pieces together.
> 
> My stomach is in knots, I pine for days when I was at ease. She should be home in the next 2-3 hours.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Steady Champ. Put your game face on. Act as if you are in a play. Rehearse what you are going to say and do and stick to it. Try to keep your emotions below the surface. Cool as ice. Show no mercy either. You have to kill this now. Let her and him know in no uncertain terms that this is it. It stops now or he can have her. Trust me, he doesn't want to take care of her.


----------



## Thundarr

Lostagainea, have you ever taken psychology? Gaining control of this is more than any one thing to do. It's a mindset of deciding that you deserve to be respected by yourself and your wife. That it's better to be alone than to be treated badly.

You have to fight your insecurity and fear and not settle for poor treatment by anyone. In this context the 180 principles will make sense to you. Doing what needs to be done will make more sense if you don't compromise this mindset.


----------



## Sbrown

If he admitted to a kiss, it was a fock!


----------



## Chaparral

Evidently, things didn't go well last night.


----------



## The Middleman

chapparal said:


> Evidently, things didn't go well last night.


Either that or the confrontation was deferred again. Any bets?


----------



## Chaparral

The Middleman said:


> Either that or the confrontation was deferred again. Any bets?


I bet he's waited too late.


----------



## sandc

Lostagain? Update?


----------



## Lostagainea

The Middleman said:


> Either that or the confrontation was deferred again. Any bets?


It was not delayed (aside from how late she worked). I hadn't heard from her for a while since the time when she was supposed to be off so I started to get nervous. I texted her and she confirmed she was at work. Naturally I contacted to OMGF to see if the OM was home. He was home and had been for a while and she had already started confronting him. Her side was done before my wife got home so she called me to let me know that and what had happened. She seemed emotional and didn't get detailed and made the point that he still maintained they only ever kissed once. 

Moving on, my wife got home and was surprisingly chatty about her day and didn't seem hostile at all. She addressed me about her mood the previous day and asked why I had went out monday night (for a drive) and not told anyone and why my habits are like that lately.

I told her there was a reason for it and moved on to stating that I have evidence of her relationship being unfaithful, I need her to come back to our marriage and I asked her to stop all contact. I'm short on time so I'm not typing it all out but it was very closely based on this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/14943-so-now-i-have-evidence-ea-next.html
She admitted they had crossed lines and she acknowledged that she has commited infidelity.

The frustrating part is she kept underplaying everything unless I escalated a fact based on evidence. She did confirm they had kissed (though she said it was initiated by him) after I brought it up, I couldn't pry it out of her beforehand.

On the NC part, she tried bringing up a few scenarios that might present themselves and if I would be ok with any of them. I stuck hard to exactly what I requested of her, NC. I had yet to move on to telling her that it ultimately won't work if they continue to share a workplace and before I could get to this point, she reached it on her own. I thought that was promising and she understands that she has to find another job. We need to discuss details further today but she at least says she is on board with NC.

We moved on to talking a lot about our relationship, how I feel her relationship with the OM has affected us and things like that. She talked about how she has been in a wierd place in her life lately and she feels like she is different now than she used to be. She did maintain that she loves me and our marriage is vital to her.


I think it went better than I expected but we have a long ways to go. In my head, I still maintain that they did more than kiss, I just don't know if either one of them will ever confess it.

I am preparing myself for many possibilities ranging from a good R to her getting a throw away phone and going underground. I guess now it's just a day at a time and see how this unfolds. At least now I feel a weight has been lifted off my back and I've taken a big step in a forward direction.


----------



## Sbrown

Are they at work TOGETHER right now?


----------



## Thundarr

You've made your first step. Now it's about holding her accountable to what's required. For example, changing job needs a time limit. A short one probably shorter than her ability to get another one. No ifs, ands, or buts.

NC is 100%. If you see she called him even once then you have to boot her out and go dark at least for a period of time. There has to be no budge in your position on this.

And she needs to know if she doesn't tell you everything and you find out on your own then it's flat over. I'd wait until she's quit her job to make that part completely known. She can still talk to OM at work to make sure he won't talk. Once she's quit then tell her if he admits to more than she's told you then it's over and give her an opportunity to spill the rest of the beans.

And by the way, you need to not just say this. It's not just a bluff.


----------



## warlock07

I think the severity of the whole thing hasn't hit you completely yet. This was the 2nd EA she had in this short marriage, right? And she wouldn't confess anything beyond what you had for evidence, right ? And she made sure that there were no trails of her PA in her mails too.


----------



## Shaggy

Put a copy of Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass into her hands ASAP.


----------



## aug

Lostagainea said:


> We moved on to talking a lot about our relationship, how I feel her relationship with the OM has affected us and things like that. She talked about how she has been in a wierd place in her life lately and she feels like she is different now than she used to be. *She did maintain that she loves me and our marriage is vital to her*.


Let see if her actions match her words. Hopefully you dont have to wait another few years (along with kids) to find out otherwise.


Your marriage is so new and she has wandered already. And she had wandered before the marriage also. So, for now, judge her actions critically. Find out what the true signs of remorsefulness are. See if she displays any of that.


----------



## Acabado

Shaggy said:


> Put a copy of Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass into her hands ASAP.


Yesterday. She has to strengthen her internal and external boundaries.


----------



## sandc

Lostagainea said:


> I think it went better than I expected but we have a long ways to go. In my head, I still maintain that they did more than kiss, I just don't know if either one of them will ever confess it.


This is a good start but it's only a start. Expect her to slip up and contact him. What will you do then? Formulate your response now. I would also suggest NO CHILDREN for the foreseeable future until you know for sure how far this went. In a year or so she should be completely out of the fog and you might get a more truthful answer then. Might. You may have to lie to get the truth ie. "I know it went farther than just a kiss, why don't you just clear your conscience so we can move on?"

Stay vigilent for now and please keep updating and asking questions.


----------



## Chaparral

Does she know OMW and you are talking? You know cheaters get together and discuss how much they will reveal, right? What are you doing to track her.


----------



## The Middleman

Lostagainea said:


> The Middleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either that or the confrontation was deferred again. Any bets?
> 
> 
> 
> It was not delayed (aside from how late she worked). I hadn't heard from her for a while since the time when she was supposed to be off so I started to get nervous. I texted her and she confirmed she was at work.
Click to expand...

I'm totally pleased to be wrong! This confrontation was long over due.

I know you said you were pressed for time and you kept this post short, but I can't help but get the feeling that this went a little too easy given what you've told us and how long this is going on. (Does anyone else feel that way?) I'm particularly concerned about the 180 in her mood from Wednesday Night to Thursday night. It's not making sense to me. Did you learn anything? My suspicious mind tells me that on Wednesday the OM told her they were busted and they had to cool things down and this busted her bubble and made her Pi$$y. The better mood today could be a Plan B has been hatched between the two. The better mood could also be that the OM called her after he got the riot act form his GF and told her to be prepared, that her's was next. Maybe she put on her "game face". My tummy test says not to trust either one of them for a long time to come.

Having said that (and I hope I'm wrong) you still have a long way to go on this one with your wife. AND I still think that a conversation with the OM is still in order! Also when your wife leaves her job, a letter their human resources department will go a long way.


----------



## Shaggy

If it seems to easy, thats because it was too easy.

Be very much on the lookout for it going under ground.


----------



## Chaparral

Read this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html


----------



## The Middleman

tdwal said:


> It was too easy, he was to eager to let her off the hook. The comment about her being changed tells me she is on her way out the door. She has already given up on the marriage.


This confrontation was a huge step forward for him and given the way his personality comes across on line, it took a lot of effort on his part. Hopefully he is toughening up, staking out his ground and gaining back the respect his wife lost in him. Time will tell.


----------



## Shaggy

I suggest you adopt a policy of Trust But Verify for the foseable future.

1. Keep in contact with the OMGF
2. VAR / gps tracker
3. Lookout for burner phone
4. Watch for schedule changes. Watch for early morning hours, shopping trips with vague time lines, work emergencies....

And trust your gut. If it says something is off, listen to it.


----------



## sandc

chapparal said:


> Read this thread:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html


Yes please do. Especially this:



LostCPA said:


> I posted a couple of times on here about 6 months ago soon after d-day. I read a few threads and thought I had learned enough to handle things on my own. My ww was begging for reconciliation and doing everything she could to make amends, so I decided to jump in and do my best to recover our marriage. I am proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I thought everything was moving along really well until it all unraveled a few weeks ago.
> 
> While she did and said all the right things to keep me committed and working on the marriage, she was busy taking the affair deeper underground and continuing it right under my nose. I found a prepaid cellphone hidden behind some boxes in our basement on Labor Day that she was using to talk and text him. I didn’t tell her that I found it and decided instead to do some digging before confronting her. I installed a keylogger on her laptop and found a secret email account that included dozens of dirty emails and pictures between the two of them.
> 
> But that’s not the worst part. My Dr. prescribed Ambien for me soon after d-day 1 because I was having a hard time getting any sleep. She used that fact that when I took the Ambien I would sleep soundly through the night to meet up with OM. His wife travels regularly on business and when she was out of town and I was knocked out in bed, she would meet him in our basement to continue their PA. I found this out by reading the deleted emails on the secret account.
> 
> I am posting this as a warning to any BS who will listen. Do not believe a word your WS says. If they are speaking, they are lying at least in the beginning. If I had been more diligent to keep digging and checking up on her I wouldn’t have wasted 6 months on a false recovery. Please verify, verify, and verify again anything your WS tells you.
> 
> I thank those of you who tried to help me before and apologize for posting and running and not following up. If I had kept posting, I might have actually learned something and not found myself in this hole I’m in now.


and this:



LostCPA said:


> WW did her polygraph this week. I told her that I wouldn’t make her any promises about reconciliation and that I was still leaning towards following through with the divorce no matter what. She still wanted to do the test. She said that since we were headed to divorce anyway, that she wanted to get the truth out there and start over from scratch wherever that may lead.
> 
> I gave her my list of questions on Saturday and told her that I was tired of digging for the truth and that I would be much more understanding of what was discovered if she told me the WHOLE truth before we got to the test on Tuesday. She sat down with me on Monday evening and basically told me I had been living a lie for the past 7 years.
> 
> There were a total of 4 affairs that lasted from 6 months to a year over the past 7 years. Two were guys she worked with, one was with a family friend, and the latest was with our neighbor. The first 3 have all moved away over the years, but number 4 still lives in town although not next door since his wife kicked him out.
> 
> I basically told her that I was still going through with the divorce, but that I did appreciate the honesty(her confession did prove true as verified by the polygraph). She has decided to start IC and try to find out why she has done what she has done. At this point, I can’t ever imagine being with her again, but I do want to help her recover so that she can be the mother my kids need.
> 
> My emotions are all over the place. I am angry about her betrayal, but at the same time I’m relieved because all the problems of the past few years make sense now. I am also angry at myself for being such an idiot to have these affairs going on right under my nose.
> 
> Take my advice, if something seems wrong it probably is. Don’t push your marital problems under the rug or just hope things will eventually get better. Engage the problem and get to the truth before it’s too late and don’t spend years living a lie like I have done.


----------



## The Middleman

Shaggy said:


> I suggest you adopt a policy of Trust But Verify for the foseable future.
> 
> 1. Keep in contact with the OMGF
> 2. VAR / gps tracker
> 3. Lookout for burner phone
> 4. Watch for schedule changes. Watch for early morning hours, shopping trips with vague time lines, work emergencies....
> 
> And trust your gut. If it says something is off, listen to it.


I might add a visit to a psychiatrist. She is in need of some real therapy.


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> I suggest you adopt a policy of Trust But Verify for the foseable future.
> 
> 1. Keep in contact with the OMGF
> 2. VAR / gps tracker
> 3. Lookout for burner phone
> 4. Watch for schedule changes. Watch for early morning hours, shopping trips with vague time lines, work emergencies....
> 
> And trust your gut. If it says something is off, listen to it.


This..........(VAR to check for cheap burner phone).

And good luck


----------



## Malaise

I beleive OP when he he says that it happened this way. 

But I agree, this was way too easy.

I don't beleive her.


----------



## CH

No kids? 

I'm a cheater and I always say no 2nd chance ever, even though my wife gave me one.

I wouldn't give her a 3rd chance, file and move on if you don't have kids yet. You DO NOT want to play jail warden to your wife for the rest of her life.

If you she didn't learn the 1st time, I doubt she'll ever learn the next time with you.

By leaving her, she might actually learn that by doing something, sometimes you get "F" over too.


----------



## Lostagainea

Shaggy said:


> I suggest you adopt a policy of Trust But Verify for the foseable future.
> 
> 1. Keep in contact with the OMGF
> 2. VAR / gps tracker
> 3. Lookout for burner phone
> 4. Watch for schedule changes. Watch for early morning hours, shopping trips with vague time lines, work emergencies....
> 
> And trust your gut. If it says something is off, listen to it.


Ya, I'm not believing it (her change) until I see it and I'm watching very closely. The OMGF and I have already agreed that we are contacting each other in the event that we either found them (or believe them to be) sneaking around or if we learn harsher details about what actually happened. I think the OM and OMGF will fracture very soon, the only thing that was holding them together im my opinion has been my wife distracting the OM and giving him a way to detach from his relationship without manning up and breaking it off.

I already have a copy of Not Just Friends and a copy of No More Mr. Nice Guy will be here next week. On the brighter side of things, she has on her own started looking at job possibilities but don't think for a second one or two steps in the right direction will fool me. It'll take miles to start to fix things.



> Time will tell


It will be a process of patience either way this goes. I still feel so much better after confronting even though it's brought up as many questions as it answered.


----------



## Shaggy

If you find them carrying on, i would contact where they work. You have giving her a lot of rope.


----------



## The Middleman

tdwal said:


> Just a thought, don't you think she could be changing jobs so that the OMs job is not threatened by having a relationship in the open. You said they were getting in trouble at work didn't you. If she were going to break off from you to be with him they would have a problem at work.


I thought of this too. That's why when she gives notice, she needs to tell them why she is leaving and that the OM behaves like a predator on vulnerable women. If she won't do it, Lostagainea should. She/they need to wound the OM. If Lostagainea is right about OM and OMGF falling apart now that Lostagainea's wife is presumably out of the picture, this could be dangerous for him. Without a GF, the OM can go after his wife without any obstacles, specially after she changes jobs.




Lostagainea said:


> It will be a process of patience either way this goes. I still feel so much better after confronting even though it's brought up as many questions as it answered.


I knew you would feel better after standing up for yourself. I have some questions:

Did she seem truly remorseful?
What was her attitude towards the OM now? The OM's GF now?
How was she treating you through this confrontation? 
Do you feel you have earned her respect back?
Did she give you a reason for her affair?
Did she give you any details about their time together? Or do you expect to get trickle truth.


----------



## Thundarr

Lostagainea said:


> A little backstory before the recent concern. Years ago, before we got married, she had an EA with a friend.
> 
> 
> 
> Thundarr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... So in other words this has happened twice. Fool me once.
Click to expand...




cheatinghubby said:


> No kids?
> 
> I'm a cheater and I always say no 2nd chance ever, even though my wife gave me one.
> 
> I wouldn't give her a 3rd chance, file and move on if you don't have kids yet. You DO NOT want to play jail warden to your wife for the rest of her life.
> 
> If you she didn't learn the 1st time, I doubt she'll ever learn the next time with you.
> 
> By leaving her, she might actually learn that by doing something, sometimes you get "F" over too.



I'd briefly forgotten about the repeat offender part of this story. This is not going to end well Lostagain. Serial cheaters are just BAD PEOPLE. Lies, deceit, and selfishness. Don't paint her into some kind of victim. She knew better than this.


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## warlock07

She knows his methods. She will keep her chats off channels she suspects H have access to. Simple.


OP, you don't want to be a warden for the rest of your life.


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## aug

warlock07 said:


> She knows his methods. She will keep her chats off channels she suspects H have access to. Simple.
> 
> 
> OP, you don't want to be a warden for the rest of your life.


Yes. So true. By being a warden, you'll never have an equal and loving relationship.

And you know she'll cheat on you again. Her past actions have shown you that. It's in her character. Dont stay in a marriage where you hope she'll change -- most times people dont.


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## The Middleman

tdwal said:


> An update?


I'm willing to bet we don't hear from him again; at least not for a long while. I think he feels that this is resolved. I say not by a long shot (a lot of lumpy rugs in his house). She and this OM are not done yet, not by a longshot. We may hear from Lostagainea when the PA comes out. (and I hope for him that it didn't go PA)


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## Malaise

Sadly, I think you are right


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## Lostagainea

The Middleman said:


> I'm willing to bet we don't hear from him again; at least not for a long while. I think he feels that this is resolved. I say not by a long shot (a lot of lumpy rugs in his house). She and this OM are not done yet, not by a longshot. We may hear from Lostagainea when the PA comes out. (and I hope for him that it didn't go PA)


Quit being so presumptuous, it makes me value your opinion a lot less.

Anyway, I'm starting a new thread to deal with the "new" issue which is the aftermath. I want to focus more on understanding what's going on now and I feel this thread has become too single tracked to accomplish that. I'll add the link to this post after I post and a link to hear on the new thread. Thanks for all the advice so far.

New thread, new topic
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...anding-aftermath-confronting.html#post1073879


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