# How can I help my BS, through the pain ive caused?



## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

I guess I should start by saying I made a post here in February, I was in a really bad place, I was in a panic, confused, and I couldn’t seem to express things the way I intended too. So instead of bumping the old thread, I figured its best to re-post, as the situation has changed and I need advice more than ever.

sorry this is so long, i tried not to leave many unanswered questions.

We are both 26, we have been together for 13 years… we aren’t legally married, for financial reasons, but we were planning to get married and start a family within the next year.

8 years ago, he cheated on me, we were engaged. We made all the typical mistakes, for example, there was so much trickle truth, that the last “new” detail I got was about a month ago. 

A few years ago it got really bad, other stresses in our life, mixed with his guilt and my resentment were a toxic combination. We started fighting a lot, the fights got worse and I got really depressed.

Our worst fights would end in me calling him names, and even threatening to leave. the fights were intense, we moved on quickly so i didnt see how big of a deal it actually was. this is very important for him now though.

The fighting effected our sex life, I didn’t understand why he wasnt interested, the rejection hurt so much that I stopped trying.

This is when everything fell apart, we both stopped going to school, We started playing a lot of online games, pretty much anything we could do to escape our reality. We neglected our friends along with almost all aspects of our lives outside of each other. talking to people online and it was a sense of “acceptance” that I had been craving, it wasn’t real, but it was easy.

There was one person I met online about 2 years ago, my bf also talked to him since we played the same games. He was just a friend, we had a lot in common and ended up talking a lot, it was innocent. my bf never seemed to have a problem with it, sometimes he even seemed relieved that he didn’t have to listen to me talk, and he could do his own thing.

It was about 10 months ago when we exchanged phone numbers and it became an emotional affair. Most of the conversations were sexual, but there was some I love yous exchanged, I never loved him but I loved the feeling of being wanted. 

3 months ago my bf caught me having phone sex with this person, I was embarrassed and scared but he reassured me that it would be ok. At that point, the emotional affair part ended, I still talked to that person but it was much different. About a week later he told me that he had checked my phone for the first time, and read through every text, and took pictures of them.

we had a deep conversation, and things after that got so much better, we were more affectionate and loving, discussing our future and working on finding him a job he would enjoy, and it was the best our relationship has been in years. 

A few weeks later it was the day before valentines day, and our 13th anniversary. he told me he wasn’t sure if he wanted to be with me anymore. The next day was awkward and we didn’t celebrate at all. The next night he went out and for the first time ever he didn’t come home.

The week after he left, he got accepted for a great job, in his field of choice, that we worked on getting him for months, making this the best and worst time of his life.

He was gone for about 5 weeks, during this time he visited almost every day. 3 weeks ago he moved back home, its extremely hard on him and nothing I seem to do helps much. he is thinking of leaving again.

Since starting his new job, I see so many great qualities emerging, he is more confident, assertive and he has seen changes in me also. 

We are in a state on limbo, not trying to fix it, but still living together, although I have been sleeping on the couch since he came home by his request.

Part of him wants to be with me and fix this, because with all of our issues finally out in the open, we have a real chance to be happier and stronger than ever. Part of him feels like his first love is now tainted and he is worried that because of that, it would only be partial happiness.

He prefers to not talk about it, so we mostly stick to small talk, we have good times where we are laughing and smiling, but it seems like when he notices it, he shuts it down immediately. The times we do talk about the situation, it seems good at the time, but it brings up even more feelings for him the the days following are even harder on him.

I love him with all of my heart, and he says he loves me too, he just hates me at the same time, and that hurts him so much, this is first time he has ever felt unsure about us. I am so ashamed of myself for hurting him so much, seeing his pain every day is the hardest thing ive ever had to do, somehow it hurts more than when he cheated on me, and up until now I was convinced that was the worst feeling ever.

Its been 2 months and I feel like its getting worse, I want to spend the rest of my life making this up to him and making him as happy as he makes me, but I fear that he is getting over me, fighting against the small part of him that wants to stay, and winning.

About a week after he “came home” I realized that as much as it hurts to not be with him, it hurts even more to see him so sad, so drained. Lately its been effecting his work, and hes spending as much time away as he can. He tells me hes not happy when hes away, it just hurts a little bit less.

He says the EA brought all of this to the surface for him and now the verbal abuse hurts as much as the affair itself does. he also says that a PA or an ONS would have been less painful, and if that was the case he would definitely reconcile.


Ive been reading a lot of posts on here and following advice that could apply to my situation, these are the things ive done.

I went NC the night he left, but he didn’t seem to care much, except once when he expressed sympathy for the OM

There was never any trickle truth, or anything else, he saw the texts, as soon as he said that, I could almost hear the glass shatter and any illusion was gone. I immediately took responsibility, told him how sorry I am, how much I love him and tried my best answer any of his questions.

I now understand why I did this, how it got to this point and I have begun to address my issues so I can make sure nothing like this ever happens again. i explain it to him along the way, and he comments on changes that he notices.

He refuses to put any keyloggers on my computer, or spyware on my phone. He says he doesn’t want to have to spy on me, I have offered to downgrade my phone to one with limited options, and even get rid of the internet entirely.

I gave him a copy of the book no more mr nice guy, I read the first few chapters and I could see a lot of him in the book. By the time I gave it to him, he had already been doing a lot of the first steps. I recently gave him a copy of surviving an affair, and a book on forgiveness, 

We did the quiz for the languages of love, he got words of affirmation and I got physical touch, which makes perfect sense. I got that book, along with his needs/her needs, but haven’t given them to him yet. 

I tell him everyday how much I love him, how sorry I am, how much I regret it, and that he is the man of my dreams, the only man I want to spend my life with.

Ive been trying to watch out for triggers but honestly just being in our apartment is a trigger for him.



For the first 5 weeks or so, all I wanted was for him to come home and let me show him how much better I can be, and make up for anything bad I have ever done or said. 

During this time, I saw him almost everyday, briefly and he seemed fine. he now says that he wasn’t, he just faked it.

Since he came home, when he is here all I can see is his pain, and it breaks my heart, I absolutely hate myself for the pain I have caused him, I wish I could take all his pain away because he really doesn’t deserve it.

The hardest thing I have ever done was offer to leave, it took me days to work up to courage to offer, afraid of the answer but if it would have helped him feel better, I would have. thankfully he said no.

he says he is trying to decide if he can give me another chance, he says he doesn’t know if he has it in him to put 100% into our relationship, and I don’t expect him to right now, it’s a huge risk and I understand his hesitance. He is used to being the one holding this relationship together and he doesn’t know how to let me do it.

I would do whatever it takes for another chance, but even more then that I want to help him begin to heal from this pain, so he can be happy. 

Any advice on how I can help him through this horrible thing I have done, is greatly appreciated.

thank you for reading such a long post!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So, how come he has allowed himself to cheat on you, but you must remain the faithful, loving spouse?

You both have issues to address. Counselling might help. I realise there is a cost implication but if you can do it, it might be of help.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> So, how come he has allowed himself to cheat on you, but you must remain the faithful, loving spouse?
> 
> You both have issues to address. Counselling might help. I realise there is a cost implication but if you can do it, it might be of help.


Thanks so much for the reply.

he simply says that when he messed up, he was young and stupid but we are older now and i should have known better.

i actually agree with him and i did know better in the sense that i never physically cheated, even though over the years i told him that if he didnt want to put effort into our sex life that it could happen, i wasnt trying to threaten him or anything, just show him how vulnerable i was.

i had never even heard of emotional affairs before this. I thought it was harmless because it was clear that we would never ever meet in real life. I know how wrong that is now.

to be fair to him i have to admit, i did hold onto what he did for a long time but i did forgive him and even got to the point that i trust him completely, i just never told him that.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> You both have issues to address. Counselling might help. I realise there is a cost implication but if you can do it, it might be of help.


Also, we cant really afford counselling at the moment, but i did mention it, he wasnt interested in any type of MC.

He said me being in IC wouldnt make a difference in whether he decides to R or not.

He was actually seeing a therapist around the time he cheated on me.

Since Dday he has mentioned wanting to try anti-depressants but thats it.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

You told other man that you loved him. Now you say that you never actually loved him, you just said that so he would give you attention and cybersex.

You tell your husband you love him. Does he think you are just saying it to get something from him like you did with other man?

Why should he believe you didn't love other man and you do love him?

It probably isn't helping that you remained in contact with other man even AFTER your husband found out.

He feels he has to be in charge of keeping the relationship together because you haven't figured out stuff like ending contact with the guy your husband caught you cybering with and professing love to on your own - it took him leaving for you to figure it out.

Why don't you eliminate any method you used to communicate with the other man without your husband having to ask, or without him having to tell you HE wants you to. He want YOU to WANT to do it, not do it because he said to?

You: "I'll give up my phone if you want."
Him: "No, don't bother."
You: "OK, good."

I'm betting it would show him something about how sorry you are and how determined you are to keep him if you took strong pre-emptive actions like that - it would make him take notice.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

So he had a PA 8 years ago but that's ok, rug sweep that one because what you have done is sooooo much worse!!! Sorry I know two wrongs don't make a right but he's acting like he's an innocent party in all this drama. 
Have you actually had any good times in this relationship, because it all sounds rather toxic ands the its just best to cut your loses and move on for both your sales. Certainly done even consider marriage and babies until you can both be open and honest about why you both cheated and why your relationship is in such a bad place.

You both need to lay your cards on the table and have an honest discussion about where your relationship is heading and what you both want for the future. Dig deep and decide if this is what you really want for the next 30, 40 years and if it is then you both have a lot of work to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> You told other man that you loved him. Now you say that you never actually loved him, you just said that so he would give you attention and cybersex.
> 
> You tell your husband you love him. Does he think you are just saying it to get something from him like you did with other man?
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your input.

Your right, I was able to type those words and have them be empty, why should he believe me when I say it to him.

He knows I love him, we talked about this, he felt bad but admitted that seeing the way I completely broke down when he left, has shown him that I love him even more then he thought.

For the first time I was on my hands and knees, begging, pleading, crying more tensely then I thought possible, I was an absolutely mess! For the first month or so, he would do or say things, kind of “taking jabs” at me, testing the reaction he would get. He seemed to feel better when he saw my raw emotion, and how easy it was for him to invoke it. I think for him, it went a long way towards proving my love for him is genuine.

I know its not enough, but I would do whatever it takes, to prove it. I would spend the rest of my life doing whatever it takes to make up for what ive done to him, and to us.

As for not ending contact immediately, what can I say? I was incredibly stupid. I did put an end to anything sexual, I wasn’t talking to him as much and i think he knew what was going to happen because he started telling me about his grandmother being extremely sick, he was at her bedside, he got fired from his job and was on the verge of losing his house, he mentioned suicide at one point, and all of these things helped me rationalize talking to him.

Looking back on it, he was probably lying and I fell for it, maybe because it made it easier to justify everything.

Yes, it took him leaving for me to finally wake up, for the fog to clear, and for me to realize that I could lose him forever, I definitely took him for granted, and I will always regret that. He mentions often that it makes him angry that it took this for me to finally realize what I had, I cant believe I lost sight of that, im so ashamed.

Im confident now that I can see everything clearly, that I could hold this relationship together for as long as it takes for him to feel comfortable enough to begin to invest himself back into it. 

My main methods of communication were xbox and my phone. 
When I suggested getting rid of the internet entirely he was shocked, then he laughed because he uses it also, so he said if anything he would just change the password, I asked him to please do that, but he hasn’t.

I have one of my very old cell phones, it has almost no capabilities, im not even sure if it can text. It would have to be unlocked to work with my current plan, but the bill and finances are kind of his department, that’s why I asked him to do it for me. I could get rid of my phone entirely, but at this point I only use it for when he texts me, we do a lot of our talking through texts lately.

As for xbox, we play together, and videogames is his passion, hes a game tester, getting rid of it probably isn’t the best option, although I would if it would help. but I want to change my name and sort of start fresh, just logging in and seeing it makes me sad and ive barely turned it on since this happened. He insisted that a name change is a waste of money, but that it was a sweet idea. So ill take the initiative and do it on my own, I don’t know why I haven’t.

I have changed my email, and blocked the xOM in every way I could, further attempts to contact me ended about a month ago, he gave up, thankfully.

thanks again, youre right, i need to be more pre-emptive.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

daisygirl 41 said:


> So he had a PA 8 years ago but that's ok, rug sweep that one because what you have done is sooooo much worse!!! Sorry I know two wrongs don't make a right but he's acting like he's an innocent party in all this drama.
> Have you actually had any good times in this relationship, because it all sounds rather toxic ands the its just best to cut your loses and move on for both your sales. Certainly done even consider marriage and babies until you can both be open and honest about why you both cheated and why your relationship is in such a bad place.
> 
> You both need to lay your cards on the table and have an honest discussion about where your relationship is heading and what you both want for the future. Dig deep and decide if this is what you really want for the next 30, 40 years and if it is then you both have a lot of work to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thanks for the reply.

I can see how it can look that way but no, we didnt rug sweep it, but he has spent the last 8 years proving that he learned from his mistake. i held onto what he did for a long time, it was the source of my anger and the reason why our fights would get so bad.

but honestly it was 8 years ago and i think if a person works hard, learns from their mistake and becomes a better person because of it, then at some point, its time to forgive.

hes not innocent but neither am i, and part of me feels like i gave him a second chance, and i should be given the same privilege, but i understand it doesnt work that way, i dont want to be given the chance, i want to earn it.

at this point i just want to help him feel better, its about him, and what he needs to be happy, whether he decides to R or not.

we have had so many good years, and yes, some very bad ones but the good times outweigh the bad times and that makes all the difference. 

For the first time, all of our cards are on the table.. its why im so confident that we can get through this, none of our issues seem to be that big, its mostly a lack of communication that brought our relationship to this point.

I know in my heart that he is the man i want to spend the rest of my life with, and although hes not sure at the moment that he is willing to do all the work that fixing this will require, i understand his hesitance and im willing to to even harder to hold us together until he is comfortable enough to let me back into his heart.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I understand that he would be upset over this, but what happened when he cheated on you while you were engaged? Did you leave him when that happened? How long did you grieve for?

I just can't get over how he is utterly devastated by this EA, but can't seem to recall his A. Where is the forgiveness there on his part? Not to try and justify what you did, but still..it's kind of hypocritical don't you think?

I was also concerned about how he has been flip flopping you around. He's spending time with you, but tells you he's not 100% in the relationship right now. I don't trust that statement. It spells "experiment time" to me...


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

I guess it's a male double standard. Not condoning what you did for a second. But he cheated physically and expected you to forgive him..he must have thought "phew". Then you cheat, now suddenly he can't forgive you and is dragging it out.

I don't want to minimize his hurt or trivialize it, but it seems the man can go either of two ways. Try to forgive like you did, or he can leave.

If he really wants to forgive then he should be meeting you halfway. You done a lot of heavy lifting, you've gone about doing everything with openness but it seems he wants to keep you in limbo. He keeps coming back, I bet you're still having sex. Then he guilt trips you, keeps you hanging. Some of the stuff he's saying seems intent on hurting you. 

To him *it's his way of punishing you*. It might have not starting out that way but maybe he saw the reaction he got, the more he "withdrew", says he doesn't know if he wants to stay, the more desperate you got in trying to keep him. It becomes _self perpetuating_ then at some point the _ego/stubbornness_ comes in where he can't back down, in order to forgive, so it keeps on.

You need to sit down and have a very serious conversation about where this is going. If he wants you then lay it on the table and say so. If he doesn't then he must let you go. If he wants it to work then he has to meet you half way and try as well.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ImprovingWife said:


> Thanks so much for the reply.
> 
> *he simply says that when he messed up, he was young and stupid but we are older now and i should have known better.*
> 
> ...


NO NO NO NO NO. Before you beat yourself up too much here, I would love to know more about what happened 8 years ago. To what extent did he cheat...one night stand with one girl, multiple times with different girls or a short term relationship with one girl? I just reread your first post and he's been trickle truthing you the entire time and you just got more details a month ago?

Here is what I see. You never got over his affair from 8 years ago, and you were ENGAGED TO BE MARRIED when he cheated. Well...you just served up a dish of revenge served cold. You two are now morally equivalent. He is no better than you. Next time you talk to your fiance, when he starts whining about how you cheated on him, if I were you I'd say:

"Listen up, fvck face, you stick your d!ck in some other girl I don't know how many times and you have the gall to rake me over the coals over my emotional affair? I never got over your cheating on my and you never giving me the complete truth. Now we are both at fault. So what do you want to do? We own this mess together 50/50. I'm done groveling to you anymore. So what's it going to be?"


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## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

ImprovingWife said:


> Thanks so much for the reply.
> 
> he simply says that when he messed up, he was young and stupid but we are older now and i should have known better.
> 
> ...



When he had his affair, was it an EA or a PA? How long ago did it happen- his A?
Have you reminded him that although it was 'X' amount of years ago he betrayed you, that you had the same feelings once that he has now? I would be discussing that with him and also telling him how long it took you to get over what he did to you... Ask him, what made him have an affair on you many years ago, how did it make him feel? Maybe you can explain why you had your A, and how you were able to get over, eventually, what he did to you?

I would be trying to look for some sort of counseling that is somewhat affordable or ringing around to find out if there is any type of counseling that is free, maybe even via phone help line? At least then he will see that you are serious about fixing your issues?

And maybe have a good plan talk, ie; what he needs from your marriage, what you are both willing to do and not willing to do. Set a time frame and agree if things don't improve, then unfortunately as much as you may not want to do this, but say to him, if we are no better off by a 'chosen time' then we will need to start making arrangements for a divorse- you never know you might just be calling his bluff, cause tbh, to me it sounds like he maybe lapping up your attention & chasing him. 

So, you may just need to turn it around, cause at the moment he holds all the cards/all the choices, I think you might have to take some of those cards and show him you are strong, you love him, you want to work on fixing your marriage, but he can't leave you in limbo forever, tell him you both need to live and be happy, with or without each other...

One more thing, how long did your EA last? How indepth was is, besides from a few 'I love you's, did you have video sex or very bad sexting or plan to meet up with him?

*Sorry if you have already answered some of these questions, I live in Aus and it's late here & I'm heaps tired...

Good luck to you, I hope it all works out for you...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> NO NO NO NO NO. Before you beat yourself up too much here, I would love to know more about what happened 8 years ago. To what extent did he cheat...one night stand with one girl, multiple times with different girls or a short term relationship with one girl? I just reread your first post and he's been trickle truthing you the entire time and you just got more details a month ago?
> 
> Here is what I see. You never got over his affair from 8 years ago, and you were ENGAGED TO BE MARRIED when he cheated. Well...you just served up a dish of revenge served cold. You two are now morally equivalent. He is no better than you. Next time you talk to your fiance, when he starts whining about how you cheated on him, if I were you I'd say:
> 
> "Listen up, fvck face, you stick your d!ck in some other girl I don't know how many times and you have the gall to rake me over the coals over my emotional affair? I never got over your cheating on my and you never giving me the complete truth. Now we are both at fault. So what do you want to do? We own this mess together 50/50. I'm done groveling to you anymore. So what's it going to be?"



Yer, what ^ said!
Cause that's exactly what I was thinking...!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> NO NO NO NO NO. Before you beat yourself up too much here, I would love to know more about what happened 8 years ago. To what extent did he cheat...one night stand with one girl, multiple times with different girls or a short term relationship with one girl? I just reread your first post and he's been trickle truthing you the entire time and you just got more details a month ago?
> 
> Here is what I see. You never got over his affair from 8 years ago, and you were ENGAGED TO BE MARRIED when he cheated. Well...you just served up a dish of revenge served cold. You two are now morally equivalent. He is no better than you. Next time you talk to your fiance, when he starts whining about how you cheated on him, if I were you I'd say:
> 
> "Listen up, fvck face, you stick your d!ck in some other girl I don't know how many times and you have the gall to rake me over the coals over my emotional affair? I never got over your cheating on my and you never giving me the complete truth. Now we are both at fault. So what do you want to do? We own this mess together 50/50. I'm done groveling to you anymore. So what's it going to be?"


Now that's a helpful suggestion . . . NOT! I guess someone has some unresolved issues. :scratchhead:

Dear ImprovingWife,

There is no simple answer to your question. You are doing many things right but only time will tell if your fiancé can get over this. However, there are some things that you can do to improve the chances that he will.

Bear in mind that, ultimately, the decision to stay with or leave you is his. Respect that. Don't push him for an answer or tell him why he should stay, as this will likely only drive him further away. However, demonstrate by your actions (as opposed to words) that he should stay. How to do this?

- Do not be needy or demanding of him -- continue to let him know that you are sorry for what you've done and to express your love for him, but don't ask for anything in return. 

- Make yourself available to him when he wants you around but respect his privacy when he wants to be alone.

- Keep up your appearance so that you are as attractive as possible, but be careful not to appear to be "on the prowl" (a tricky balance, I know).

- Be totally honest with him but also sensitive about how you say things -- there many ways to tell the truth and some are better than others.

- _Consistent with everything above,_ get on with your life: show him that you are a mature, capable woman who has much to offer someone in the way of a life partner. Again, this is a delicate balance but it is important for him to realize what he will be losing if he does not give you another chance.

Here are some resources that you may find helpful. The first one is the most applicable to your situation but they all contain helpful advice for someone facing your problem.

Rebuilding Your Marriage After YOU Had the Affair | Marriage Missions International

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Do-I-Get-My-Husband-Back?&id=1393725

Recovery After an Affair

How I Saved My Marriage

Finally, be patient. Repairing your relationship will take time. Don't look for a quick fix and expect set backs from time to time. Remember that all relationships/marriages have problems and their own ups and downs (I know, I've been married for 41 years -- but I'm lucky, I married the most wonderful woman in the world!).

Wishing you the best.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

A little history about his A, Im not making excuses for him, but there were factors that played into his making that terrible decision. 

It was my last year of high school, I was taking mostly advanced classes, I was super busy preparing for college and it cut into our time together, he had a feeling when I went to college without him, I would lose interest. I was pretty popular in high school and he hated the attention I got from other guys, including his friends. He also had a complex about me being his first, since we wasn’t mine, and even more then that he was just about 18, his guy friends had so many stories about all the different girls they were seeing, and made fun of him for never experimenting, it made him wonder. 

some silly girl started to show him attention, he got totally caught up into it, it was an EA for about a month. That girl approached me once to tell me that they were “just friends” and I honestly didn’t think anything of it. After that it became a PA, kissing, touching and probably sex. I had friends in his classes I was given all kinds of love notes my bf and this girl had been exchanging in class, all of a sudden I saw tons of red flags that I missed.

So I told him we “need to talk” and left it at that for a little bit, when the conversation finally happened, he left me! he gave me a whole speech about needing to experiment so that he could be sure about what he wanted and finally the dreaded “I love you but not in love with you.” 

Considering my plan was the leave him because I knew about the A, when he did this, I simply told him that he was making a huge mistake, and he would regret it, by then it would be too late. He seemed less sure but the next day he was still talking to her, so it was over. They “dated” for less than a month, I pretty much had to watch it, being in the same school, so I casual dated and appeared as happy as possible. His relationship with her was strained from the first day because he always talked about me, spent all of his time writing letters to me and telling everyone he still loves me. Eventually she told him to choose and he dumped her publicly.

Apparently they had sex twice, he received oral twice, a little over a month ago, I found out she was a virgin at the time, and that’s why she took the break up so hard, she moved away soon after.

He tried everything to get me back, I didn’t speak to him at all. one day a few weeks after that, I woke up to my puppy jumping around with a note from him, on her collar. We started talking, friends for a few months and then we got back together because I really believe that he went out and experimented, realized what he wanted and came back. I was worried he would start to wonder about women later in life, and felt like at least we got that out of the way.

I didnt grieve properly, mostly due to TT and finding out most of the details from others, not him. So I held it against him for a long time, he put up with a lot of crap from me after that. In fights I could get really mean, I didn’t have as much patience with him, and I got really good at making *****y little comments about it. Somewhere in all these years I have forgiven him, stopped thinking about it, and its a dull ache at this point, and only when I obsess over details. 

His pain however, is fresh and seeing him so hurt, knowing I caused it, hurts me more than his A ever did. I cant stand the thought of him struggling with it for years like I did, that is why I have tried to do this as best I can to avoid further pain for him.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

somethingelse said:


> I just can't get over how he is utterly devastated by this EA, but can't seem to recall his A. Where is the forgiveness there on his part? Not to try and justify what you did, but still..it's kind of hypocritical don't you think?
> 
> I was also concerned about how he has been flip flopping you around. He's spending time with you, but tells you he's not 100% in the relationship right now. I don't trust that statement. It spells "experiment time" to me...


We have talked about his A since this happened and he is remorseful, he regrets it, i have seen his guilt for years.

he does say that he was young, and by now i should have known better, but also he feels like me doing this, discredits the 8 years of heavy lifting he did, to keep us together.

sometimes i think its hypocritical that he hasnt given me a second chance, even though he is proof that it can be enough and people can really change and be better. but i dismiss thoes thoughts because that seems selfish of me. my selfishness is a huge part of why im in this position now and it is something i am actively working on, so i try not to compare or expect anything from him, instead i am focused on how to help him through the pain to the point that he can make a clear decision and hopefully we can learn, move on and do this properly!

i really appreciate your input and i realize this might sound silly considering he has done the "experimenting" thing before, but i know thats not what this is about, hes more using this time trying to build up relationships with guy friends, build up his confidence, and even trying to get interested in sports. he still tells me where hes going and what hes up to.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You are still both so young, with lots to learn. Sorry if that sounded patronising, but I am remembering myself at your ages. And I certainly had a lot to learn.

Like when you are 22 and introducing your girl friend to your parents, do not be too surprised if they are disappointed that she is a divorcee of 28 with 3 children!

Even older people can get into a jam. My wife had an affair, then I had what I now realise was a revenge affair a couple of years later.

We got over it, and so, I hope, can you two, too.:smthumbup:


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> I guess it's a male double standard. Not condoning what you did for a second. But he cheated physically and expected you to forgive him..he must have thought "phew". Then you cheat, now suddenly he can't forgive you and is dragging it out.
> 
> I don't want to minimize his hurt or trivialize it, but it seems the man can go either of two ways. Try to forgive like you did, or he can leave.
> 
> ...


its definitely a double standard to him, he actually sent me an article that had some statistics showing that when most men cheat it is strictly a sexual thing and when most women cheat it is emotional. this is a huge thing for him as sex was never his biggest priority, he is much more emotional.

He actually told me that if i just had a PA or a ONS he would forgive me and move on because he knows that he has neglected me in that department. He worked hard on the emotional part of us and feels like thats what i gave away.

As for his punishing me, i believe that is part of it now. he purposely took "shots" at me, some low-blows since all this happened, knowing it would hurt me, but i think my reactions do help him. it sounds bad but i think seeing how easily he can make me burst into tears or how something so small can make me break down, shows him how much i really do love him with all of my heart.

a quick example, he had a tattoo planned out, it was stars around my name, he has been working on the design for a few years, it was finally done and he was looking for the right artist to do it. within the first week he left, he got that tattoo, but instead of it being my name, in the middle, he used his last name. he showed it to me causally during a conversation and when i saw it, it seemed so final, like he made his decision.

I crumbled instantly and it was the first time he came and hugged me, he held me while i cried and i was a mess. he assured me that it wasnt a decision, he showed me the place was name was supposed to go and told me it was still an option. he later told me that it was the exact reaction he was expecting, and that it shows him more about how much i love him then my words do, because he cant trust my words right now.

I also think it has alot to do with the fact that he told everyone we knew about this, everyone. so now i think his ego is at risk, if he takes me back.

Its hard to have real conversations about this because he doesnt want to talk about it, he gets really sad and he shuts down. I will keep trying though.

Edit: actually, are not having sex at all, but i admit i have tried. Im pretty sure that is why he makes sure I sleep on the couch!


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> NO NO NO NO NO. Before you beat yourself up too much here, I would love to know more about what happened 8 years ago. To what extent did he cheat...one night stand with one girl, multiple times with different girls or a short term relationship with one girl? I just reread your first post and he's been trickle truthing you the entire time and you just got more details a month ago?
> 
> Here is what I see. You never got over his affair from 8 years ago, and you were ENGAGED TO BE MARRIED when he cheated. Well...you just served up a dish of revenge served cold. You two are now morally equivalent. He is no better than you. Next time you talk to your fiance, when he starts whining about how you cheated on him, if I were you I'd say:
> 
> "Listen up, fvck face, you stick your d!ck in some other girl I don't know how many times and you have the gall to rake me over the coals over my emotional affair? I never got over your cheating on my and you never giving me the complete truth. Now we are both at fault. So what do you want to do? We own this mess together 50/50. I'm done groveling to you anymore. So what's it going to be?"


very short term relationship with 1 girl. 

what he did was devastating to me but it really doesnt help me feel any less terrible about what i have done. 

infact if anything, him having an affair years ago, makes it even worse because ive felt the pain first hand, and yet i still did it.

its easy to think an EA is less painful then a PA but it depends on the person. for me it was easier to get involved in an EA because i could fill a void while i comforted myself with the fact that i wouldnt physically cheat.

i would never say it in thoes words but i have told him that he owns 50% of the mess we are standing in and i dont mind doing most of the work but at some point he needs to give a little.

I try not to bring up the TT from his A because i wanted all the details and he never understood why. he would have never wanted to hear all the details of my EA but he wasnt given the luxury to decide because he saw every single text, nothing was left out or hidden.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

still.hurting said:


> When he had his affair, was it an EA or a PA? How long ago did it happen- his A?
> Have you reminded him that although it was 'X' amount of years ago he betrayed you, that you had the same feelings once that he has now? I would be discussing that with him and also telling him how long it took you to get over what he did to you... Ask him, what made him have an affair on you many years ago, how did it make him feel? Maybe you can explain why you had your A, and how you were able to get over, eventually, what he did to you?
> 
> I would be trying to look for some sort of counseling that is somewhat affordable or ringing around to find out if there is any type of counseling that is free, maybe even via phone help line? At least then he will see that you are serious about fixing your issues?
> ...


i went into more detail about his A, as for my EA it lasted about 7-8 months, but i knew him for 2 years, my bf knew him also we all played games online together. 

i can pretty much count the number of times i said i love you to him, it was way more serious from his side though. i made it clear we would never meet and he was aware of my bf, but he did always tell me that its been 13 years and im not married, he followed that up by saying he wanted to "steal me away" and marry me etc

as for video chats, i had seen him on cam several times, innocently, a few minutes and we would go back to playing a game. he saw me on cam once, it was just sitting there talking, i was showing him a new game i had that he wanted. it was maybe 15minutes, after that my bf told me he didnt like video chats and it never happened again.

there were pictures though, mostly just of my face, but some inappropriate ones. i did mostly "tease" pictures, lots of cleavage, one boob pic, that was the most he saw. the sexting was bad in the sense that there was alot of it and it was talking about stuff that me and my bf dont do.. he is more shy/simple when it comes to sex.

Other then that i am currently looking for affordable IC, i should 
have done that years ago.

for me it took time to see how sorry he was, everyone is sorry at first but i wanted to see if the new changes lasted over time, and that was how he helped me to get over it. 

I fear with him i dont have the same amount of time, and that if i dont help him feel some relief or see the light at the end of this dark tunnel soon, then he will give up without having tried.

Thank you so much, i need all the luck i can get


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## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

ImprovingWife said:


> i went into more detail about his A, as for my EA it lasted about 7-8 months, but i knew him for 2 years, my bf knew him also we all played games online together.
> 
> i can pretty much count the number of times i said i love you to him, it was way more serious from his side though. i made it clear we would never meet and he was aware of my bf, but he did always tell me that its been 13 years and im not married, he followed that up by saying he wanted to "steal me away" and marry me etc
> 
> ...


Dear ImprovingWife;

After reading your replies to others and myself, it has made me see things from a different angle...

My advice would be very very similar to 'Carmen Ohio'

I can't help feelings sorry for what you are going through, which is strange for me as I was betrayed by my H from an EA, but theirs was A LOT more involved and not innocent at all, and it was during a time that I really really needed him cause I was having so many complications during my pregnancy with our twins, and we already had 4 children... But we are not too much older than you. It's true, well I agree with your fiancé, your both older now & not in highschool... You got caught up with attention from another guy, and it's nice to be flattered and feel 'very wanted'. 

I honestly believe the only way to get your fiancé back is to be very very apologetic, tell him when he's ready you are more than willing to explain 'why' the EA happened (although I think you already have done this?) but be patient, there will come a time when he feels like it's the right time, and you will be able to give your speech (so to speak) to him then. Before then, definitely start looking for affordable counseling and maybe other groups or/and educate yourself from books and Internet, he will see this as a positive sign and will help him believe that you are truly doing everything you can to change and get him back.

Again, good luck with it all, and believe me your the first WS I have ever wished luck on before...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Dear ImprovingWife,

Your last three posts are very honest and insightful. You have learned some important things about yourself from this experience, both bad -- your capacity to betray someone you love -- and good -- your willingness to admit and confront your failure in order to help heal the one you have wronged.

I am confident that you are going to be OK, whether your marriage survives or not (I hope it does). I also think that, if your BH does not give you a chance to prove that you can be loving, faithful wife, his will be the greater loss.

I hope things work out for you.


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

A lot of similarities between your story and mine, improving. I feel the same emotions as your BS. 13 years, I stayed faithful despite her depression/OCD and low desire, then she cheated. We've been together since we were kids - I never thought this could happen to us, and I never thought she'd be capable of cheating. I figured if anyone would cheat, it'd be me, and I'm pretty strong in that regard. So I thought we were solid. Nope.

The past cheating seems to have played a role in the more recent one. Was it ever fully addressed? I'm glad you did not repeat the crime of trickle-truth, as that would have made things so much worse, so maybe there's still a chance for you. It's soul-shattering to know that the person you love and have committed your life, your youth, your entire being to then goes and gives everything you ever wanted to another man. I am in the same place as your man is right now:

I don't know if I can love her again, it pains me to even feel that way; but I know I must do what I need to make myself happy, so I feel ready to let her go, because to feel any other mindset would expose me to another hard fall. Yet she is extremely remorseful, says/does all the right things, sends me texts constantly with pictures showing where she is and what she's doing, does all kinds of favors for me, and has shown initiative to fix broken components in our relationship. Despite all her efforts, I feel my only obligation is to let her try and see if my feelings for her reignite and are worth pursuing. I really feel she's lucky to even have that opportunity to _try_.

I agree with other posters that you should be very remorseful, provide whatever assurances he needs, basically do whatever you can to help him through this and promise, 100%, never ever ever will it happen again. You'll fix things, you'll talk, you'll observe boundaries, you love him, etc etc. All of those things.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

carmen ohio said:


> Now that's a helpful suggestion . . . NOT! I guess someone has some unresolved issues. :scratchhead:
> 
> Dear ImprovingWife,
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for this post and the resources you provided, im reading every book or website I can find on the subject, so this is appreciated. 

The steps you outlined sound like what I am attempting to do, although some parts are hard for me, such as giving him space when is so visibly sad, every instinct I have wants to hug, talk, and comfort him. 

I think I come across as needy to him sometimes, I miss him, its hard to be in the same room with him but not be able to touch him, or sometimes even talk to him. 

I wish I could shelter him from the overload of emotions he is going through now, and the ones he will be going through in the near future. I have to remind myself sometimes, that there isn’t a quick fix, and that I have to let him go through the stages, and just try to help when he lets me.

I will continue to be patient, make his needs my top priority, and work on improving myself so that I can be deserving of another chance, if i get it.

Congrats on 41 years! That is wonderful and very encouraging 




carmen ohio said:


> Dear ImprovingWife,
> 
> Your last three posts are very honest and insightful. You have learned some important things about yourself from this experience, both bad -- your capacity to betray someone you love -- and good -- your willingness to admit and confront your failure in order to help heal the one you have wronged.
> 
> ...


thats very true, i learned so much about myself, some of it i would rather not know, honestly. but now im glad that i have had to face these issues head-on for the first time.

its important because i dont want to ever hurt anyone like this again, especially not the man i have been in love with my entire life. he deserves better and because of this experience, i will be better.

Thank you so much for your encouragement and well wishes, it is greatly appreciated!


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## Lost at sea (Mar 16, 2013)

You are doing well as can be. Just continue to reach out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

still.hurting said:


> Dear ImprovingWife;
> 
> After reading your replies to others and myself, it has made me see things from a different angle...
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post, im so sorry for what you are going through/have been through.

As the BS of an EA, I appreciate you even reading my post and taking the time to reply. I can only hope that your husband has learned from his mistakes the way I have, and can lead you into a happier/healthier relationship in the future.

I did get caught up in whole thing and now the only thing I can do is tell him how very sorry I am, how much I regret it, try to explain why I allowed it to happen and how I can make sure it never happens again.. ever. Im doing my best to back up my words with actions, all I can hope is that he sees this and decides I am worth the risk.

its so discouraging that he doesn’t want to talk about it, he doesn’t want any answers or any explanations. I see how sad he is and I feel completely useless, I was always the one who could make him feel better, no matter what, now instead I am the source of all his pain and the heaviness of that feeling is hard to carry. 

I just remind myself that he is hurting because of me and I need to be strong, and make sure I am prepared when/if he does want to talk about it.

I wish I could take away his pain, I wish I could carry it for him because he doesn’t deserve it.

Thank you again for your post and especially the last part, it means a lot!


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> You are still both so young, with lots to learn. Sorry if that sounded patronising, but I am remembering myself at your ages. And I certainly had a lot to learn.
> 
> Like when you are 22 and introducing your girl friend to your parents, do not be too surprised if they are disappointed that she is a divorcee of 28 with 3 children!
> 
> ...


Thanks, I really hope so.

I know we are very young and that can be a double edged sword when it comes to relationships, but on the bright side i think we have both made the biggest and terrible mistakes already and i think we can learn from them. 

He asked me if what i did was a revenge affair, i really dont think it was, but i also think it might have been easier for him to accept if i said it was because then he could blame himself.

I make sure to take full responsibility for my actions, i didnt blame myself for his affair, i wont let him blame himself for mine.

Stories like yours give me hope, that we too, can move forward and even get over this one day. :smthumbup:





Lost at sea said:


> You are doing well as can be. Just continue to reach out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ty, i will continue to reach out to him when he lets me, and give him space when he doesnt.

It just doesnt feel like enough, i want to do more.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

Cabsy said:


> A lot of similarities between your story and mine, improving. I feel the same emotions as your BS. 13 years, I stayed faithful despite her depression/OCD and low desire, then she cheated. We've been together since we were kids - I never thought this could happen to us, and I never thought she'd be capable of cheating. I figured if anyone would cheat, it'd be me, and I'm pretty strong in that regard. So I thought we were solid. Nope.
> 
> The past cheating seems to have played a role in the more recent one. Was it ever fully addressed? I'm glad you did not repeat the crime of trickle-truth, as that would have made things so much worse, so maybe there's still a chance for you. It's soul-shattering to know that the person you love and have committed your life, your youth, your entire being to then goes and gives everything you ever wanted to another man. I am in the same place as your man is right now:


Wow you sound just like my BS, thanks so much for sharing this.

The past cheating wasn’t really dealt with properly, and we allowed it to fester for years, but I don’t think that it played a part in what I did.

I remember after his A, I was so sure I could never do that, I stood on my moral high ground and looked down at him for being weak enough to let some silly broad come between us and ruin our perfect love story. Only now do I realize that the “fog” people describe is very real. The rush of chemicals, the thrill, the feeling of being wanted, is very powerful. Especially if the person is already vulnerable, its easy to get carried away.

Not defending it just saying that good people can make terrible decisions, it was true of him then and its true of me now. For 13 years he knew 100% that I would never ever stray, we had been through so much together, we have been best friends since we were 5 years old. Im so sorry that I ripped that feeling of complete security, away from him.




Cabsy said:


> I don't know if I can love her again, it pains me to even feel that way; but I know I must do what I need to make myself happy, so I feel ready to let her go, because to feel any other mindset would expose me to another hard fall. Yet she is extremely remorseful, says/does all the right things, sends me texts constantly with pictures showing where she is and what she's doing, does all kinds of favors for me, and has shown initiative to fix broken components in our relationship. Despite all her efforts, I feel my only obligation is to let her try and see if my feelings for her reignite and are worth pursuing. I really feel she's lucky to even have that opportunity to _try_.
> 
> I agree with other posters that you should be very remorseful, provide whatever assurances he needs, basically do whatever you can to help him through this and promise, 100%, never ever ever will it happen again. You'll fix things, you'll talk, you'll observe boundaries, you love him, etc etc. All of those things.


This part really sounds familiar, he has said this in a few different ways so far, and I completely understand. He says he doesn’t know if he can ever love me as completely as he did before I hurt him, part of him thinks that even if we manage to fix this enough to be happy, that there will always be a huge elephant in the room and therefore we can only achieve “partial” happiness. 

He knows that he deserves to be happy, and he is worried that if he gives me a chance to fix this that it might not work and then he has to go through the pain of leaving again. he says that he knows ill be a “good girl” for a few years, maybe even forever, but what if its not enough and he never gets over what have done and eventually has to break my heart again and leave. even through his pain he can feel mine and doesn’t want to lead me on, if he isn’t completely sure that he can forgive me.

As a BS the greatest gift you can give your WS is a chance to try. There are no promises, no guarantees and I know that. That chance to try is all I can ask him for, even though I do not deserve it, maybe he will find it in his heart to let me try and earn it.

Im his first love and ive never hurt him like this before, to him his first innocent love is tainted now. I guess at this point I can put on my BS hat and say that its true. I chose not to look at it as tainted or ruined but just as a new chapter of our love, but its no longer as innocent. There was no longer 100% security, but there never really was, either of us have the potential to destroy it at any moment through selfish actions.

In a way its better to know that its not guaranteed, both people have to actively work on the relationship. Somewhere in the years of him trying to make up for his A, I forgot this and started taking him very much for granted.

I love him more then ever, so i know that its possible, it takes a lot of work and i am prepared for that. if he gives me that chance and it doesnt work, or he decides he wants to leave, atleast i will know i tried my best. More then anything, I want him to be happy, but as long as im sure that i can make him happy, i have to fight for him.

So ill continue to tell him and show him how much i love him and prove how much better i can be, although its hard when he seems to want me to just keep my distance and not mention it. I dont want to pressure him, but at the same time its been 2 months and i feel like this time could have been spent trying but instead he feels worse today then he did right after Dday.

I just know that there has to be more i can do to ease his pain, enough for him to atleast let me try.


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

You're welcome, it sounds like he & I are in similar places right now, but most times I am able to be around my WS and I initiate convos about the affair and our relationship on my terms. She initiates a lot of the close contact - I reject her often - she keeps trying. Fine by me I guess. Sometimes she hits me at a good time, and more and more she seems to be able to read when I'm not going to be receptive to what she does/says.

Her being supportive really helps take some of the burden off of me, because I feel she knows where I am mentally, she has made peace with it, and she's still content to do whatever she must to win me back with no apparent frustration or loss of morale. Still, I can be having a fine time talking to her or hanging out, then something will pop into my head, remind me of what she did, and I'm in a completely different place. Try to let him guide you I guess (if he won't talk much maybe read his body language), and be ready for bumps in the road, take the bumps with him and don't let any of it phase you. 

At worst her apologies and assurances seem fake, but I know they're not, she just doesn't know what else to say to help me through it. She could tell me 1000 more times that this will never happen again, but am I to take things on faith from this woman who is the source of my pain? She could tell me 10000 more times that she loves me completely, knows and is willing to do what it takes to make this work, and we'll be happy from here out out; but how does she know this for sure? She can't. I certainly don't feel that is the most likely outcome, hell, I'm not even sure if it's a possibility.

I'm not at her energy/enthusiasm level about reconciliation and that does wear on me at times - it does feel needy - like she _needs_ to fix things, but this isn't something that can be so easily or quickly fixed for me. I ask myself if her efforts real, are they sustainable, can I ever love her as I did before, can I ever trust her again, is it fair for me to have her trying so hard while I can barely look at her, etc. If I remain cold to her and can't find the same love we had, that means more pain down the road, probably more problems (e.g. affairs), and the same end result of splitting up. Or what if she's still not sure what she wants/needs, fights for me, wins me back, and 2-3 years down the line decides she's not into it any more. To me, that's like more time wasted, more exposure to known dangers, and all for a *chance* that I might be able to find something special again with the woman I once loved. 

Now that she's improved, and I'm improved, and we both learned some hard lessons about relationships - we now have the tools to make a relationship stay healthy, but the baggage makes it seems unobtainable. That's a shame and it adds to the hurt of the betrayal. I put so much work into her and our relationship, sacrificed so much, stayed faithful, and now I may never be able to enjoy what I've been waiting many years to get back. Instead, some other guy will get to enjoy the fruits of my labor and that time is wasted. 

It sucks, because if this woman had been standing in front of me a few months ago, in the changed state she is in now, without having betrayed me - our relationship could've been wonderful again. Now I feel at best our relationship will be a shell of what it was or could have been, and though I'll be the first to admit that I'm conflicted as hell, it really makes me wonder why I would even consider fighting for tainted love when I could find new love and true happiness without carrying the weight of the past. Why throw good time after bad when I can find a new woman who will treat me better?

You're right that security is never there 100% as it seems, it's an illusion. Still, wasn't it a happy illusion? To _know_ what we had was special, that she was not the type of person that could ever cheat, and that no one could steal her love away from me - to find out this pillar of my life was built on sand was a crushing blow to me. She still claims she and the OM never had sex, but I can't believe that now or maybe ever, and the things I know they did make my stomach turn. She was pure & innocent - I was her only sex partner, she was my first and only deep love, certainly my longest-lasting, and it felt like we had something special.

If he feels these things as deeply as I do... he is dealing with reassessing his entire life, everything he valued, everything he desired, everything he knew to be true and could rely upon. His entire world feels unstable and he's reconstructing his reality piece by piece. For obvious reasons, he's trying not to use you or your assurances as the foundation for that new reality. I hope, if you are as genuinely remorseful as you seem, that he does give you that gift by allowing you to try to repair the damage that was done.


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## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

ImprovingWife said:


> Thanks for this post, im so sorry for what you are going through/have been through.
> 
> As the BS of an EA, I appreciate you even reading my post and taking the time to reply. I can only hope that your husband has learned from his mistakes the way I have, and can lead you into a happier/healthier relationship in the future.
> 
> ...


Dear Improving Wife, I can't imagine your H 'never' having the talk with you about 'why did you do it', curiosity will get the better of him, just give him his space and in time he will come to you...

As for my marriage, unfortunately it seems it's just getting worse and worse... I wish my H had the same empathy and gulit and determination you have for your relationship. 
He is starting to drink heavily AGAIN and is starting to pick fights and becoming impossible...

I DON'T see our relationship continuing, it's just not healthy and he's already breaking WAY too many promises and it's only been a yr and a half!

All the best with yours tho ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## abcl06735 (Mar 30, 2013)

Hi Improving Wife,

I'm in the same position your partner is in, only I never cheated. Not in 25 years.

Your story is so like mine. Intense EA that was physical only in the sense that they did it online. In our bedroom. While I was in the house. She was often texting him while we were in the same room. Even sometimes while we were talking. I read the texts. Saw the photos. Noted the web cam ap on her phone. I know where your partner is at. As someone said on this site a while back, you play it over in your head, again and again. It's like watching a porn film with your partner as the main attraction. It is deeply emotionally and psychologically disturbing.

I'm pretty emotional, like your partner, so this hit me very badly. I've lost 20lbs and I'm only average in size normally. Never thought either of us could do this to the other. Trust was just so important for a happy, relaxed and secure relationship. It's hit me so bad I'm possibly having a nervous breakdown. It is the most devastating thing that has ever happened to me.

Hard though it is to admit it though, I can see that there were reasons she was driven to it, even though I don't accept what she did. It was no solution. It never is. I will never see her in the same light again. Would never be able to trust her again properly, at least not in that pristine way we once had. I have lost respect for her and a lot of the love I had has been drained away. What we had has been shattered beyond recognition.

But if my wife were as remorseful as you are showing yourself to be, as committed to putting right the wrong she has done just as you are doing then I would certainly give reconciliation a go, because you can't just give up on 25 years together loving someone just like that. Mine was a good woman once. I'm sure you were too.

But here's the difference. My wife is sorry she hurt me but not remorseful in the least. And is angry that I found out. Cannot see that she did anything wrong. "We never met" she has said. It's the same as a man looking at porn. Women need emotional attachment before they can get sexual. 

And she did not break off with the OM. She planned on running away with him, but he dumped her when he found out I had discovered the affair and exposing it could harm his career.

Hard as it is for your partner, if your remorse is genuine, and it sure seems that way, then he owes it to the two of you to try and put this behind you. 13 years and friends since childhood? It would be a terrible sadness to throw all that away.

I wish my wife had been like you. I wish you well and the best of luck in rebuilding your relationship.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

Cabsy said:


> You're welcome, it sounds like he & I are in similar places right now, but most times I am able to be around my WS and I initiate convos about the affair and our relationship on my terms. She initiates a lot of the close contact - I reject her often - she keeps trying. Fine by me I guess. Sometimes she hits me at a good time, and more and more she seems to be able to read when I'm not going to be receptive to what she does/says.
> 
> Her being supportive really helps take some of the burden off of me, because I feel she knows where I am mentally, she has made peace with it, and she's still content to do whatever she must to win me back with no apparent frustration or loss of morale. Still, I can be having a fine time talking to her or hanging out, then something will pop into my head, remind me of what she did, and I'm in a completely different place. Try to let him guide you I guess (if he won't talk much maybe read his body language), and be ready for bumps in the road, take the bumps with him and don't let any of it phase you.
> 
> ...



Thanks again, it does seem very similar and I appreciate the insight. 

He has initiated 2 conversations about the EA, right after he caught me, we had a long talk and things got better, then the night before our anniversary when he said he wasn’t sure if he wanted to stay or not. He has initiated conversations about our past though, the issues that bothered him and feelings he never expressed at the time. As for the physical contact, its mostly me who initiates it and I get rejected more often than not, at first the rejection felt like a slap but im getting better at hiding my disappointment and being understanding.

The only contact he initiates are hugs, one before he goes to sleep and one before he leaves the house, they are usually “cheap” hugs but I look forward to them, and they encourage me to keep trying.

I try to be as supportive as possible, Its really hard not lose morale but ive been working hard on this and im getting better, but sometimes I cant stop myself from crying and telling him how I feel, sometimes he hugs me while I cry, but sometimes I can tell it makes him sad and those times I feel selfish and like I don’t have a right to express how I feel because his feelings are more important, that helps me stop.

I know that he wouldn't be as enthusiastic about trying to fix this as I am, I couldn't expect that, but I think this state of limbo we are in is making is harder on both of us. He has mentioned the same ideas about is it fair to let me try, if hes not sure it will be enough. Hes worried that he will never be the same with me, that’s what he meant by partial happiness. It seems his greatest fear is if he lets me try and it doesn't work out, then he has to leave, and break both of our hearts, all over again.

I know that it’s a huge risk, and he has good reasons not to trust me, i understand that he is having to reassemble the pieces of his life and he cant rebuild it all around me, because I have proven to be untrustworthy, and im no longer that constant, the one thing he could always depend on. At this point I don’t expect to be the foundation for the puzzle he is putting together, I would be forever grateful to just be one of the pieces of that puzzle.

I know that Reconciliation seems like a lot of work for just the chance of finding the same special bond we have always had, and it probably doesn’t seem like a logical choice at this point. Honestly for me, its not a choice, I am his whether he wants me or not. My heart will forever be his, and If I wasn’t sure that I could make him happier than ever before, I would let him go.

All of our issues are finally out in the open and every single one of them, comes down to a lack of communication. I wish I could have changed this much and showed him the new me before all of this happened, because I know how happy we would be right now, instead we are both suffering. I wish I knew then, what I know now. I knew I needed a wake up call, the idea of him leaving me, snapped me out of the fog instantly, I hate that it took that to finally make me realize what I was doing to the man I love, myself, and the life we built together.

I know that its hard to him to muster the strength to give me a chance because of the baggage, it makes it seem like even in a new happier state, our relationship will seem tainted. I know its so tempting to run from our baggage, but everyone has baggage don’t they? Any new person he meets will have some sort of baggage, he will still carry the baggage of being betrayed, I don’t think that will instantly go away if im not in his life anymore. Either way he will go through a terrible painful period while healing from what I have done, I would give anything to be next to him, helping him through the hard days and enjoying every second of the good days together. 

The bumps in the road don’t scare me at all, I am prepared to face any issues head on, no more avoiding them or ignoring them and letting them fester. I am prepared to do whatever it takes for just a chance to keep him in my life. Its extremely hard for him to accept that the feeling of 100% security is an illusion, yes it was a happy and comforting illusion but for me, that illusion shattered 8 years ago. When I lost that illusion I didn’t see how I could ever feel secure in our relationship again but I learned to put my trust in his actions because when you don’t blindly trust, actions are the only thing you can depend on. Now that is much more comforting for me then the illusion was, that’s probably because he hasn’t hurt me again, and that’s what helped me continue to build my life around him, he is proof that people can learn from there mistakes and become better people because of it.

I hope everything works out for you in your relationship, I hope you both end up happier than you were before this whole terrible situation. Thanks again for your posts and the well wishes, I also hope he gives me the chance to make up for what ive done.


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

still.hurting said:


> Dear Improving Wife, I can't imagine your H 'never' having the talk with you about 'why did you do it', curiosity will get the better of him, just give him his space and in time he will come to you...
> 
> As for my marriage, unfortunately it seems it's just getting worse and worse... I wish my H had the same empathy and gulit and determination you have for your relationship.
> He is starting to drink heavily AGAIN and is starting to pick fights and becoming impossible...
> ...



lately he has initiated conversations about our past, I think him not wanting to talk about the EA might be my fault. I don’t think he has curiosity on the subject because not only did he see every single text, and read through 7 months of texting, he also took many pictures and probably still reads through them at times since he isn’t ready to delete them.

Also, during the first 5 weeks when he was away from home, I wrote him letters constantly, I used these letters are a journal of sorts, and I explained everything. At this point he knows everything so he doesn’t have much of a reason to subject himself to an awkward, painful conversation, im finally starting to understand that and so I don’t push the issue.

Im sorry to hear that your situation isn’t improving, but I think you can take comfort in the fact that you gave him a chance to save your marriage. If you do decide not to continue, no one can blame you and at least you know that you have done all you could. At that point the regret, guilt and wondering “what if” will be his own burden to carry. Im sure you will be fine either way, and I hope you find true happiness, no matter what you decide.

Thanks again for your kind words


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## ImprovingWife (Mar 2, 2013)

abcl06735 said:


> Hi Improving Wife,
> 
> I'm in the same position your partner is in, only I never cheated. Not in 25 years.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your story, im sorry you are in this position, im sorry that any of us are here.

My BS also pretty much saw it progress, this is something that makes it much worse for him… I recently found out that he hated it the whole time, but didn’t say anything. 

Sometimes he seemed relieved that he got more alone/quiet time to do his own thing and now I know that he was just trying to ignore what was going on as best he could, so that he didn’t have to bring it up. It must have been so hard on him and I cant believe I didn’t see it. One specific thing he mentioned recently is with the time stamps on the texts, he compared and there was one time I was texting them both at the same time.

He is taking it extremely hard, hes losing weight, not sleeping, not eating, it got so bad at one point he went to the doctor, they are pretty sure he is developing an ulcer. He is probably heading toward a nervous breakdown. the last 2 weeks he has had fits of anger that ive never seen in him before, during the most recent one he mentioned just leaving the city, disappearing, and getting away from everything.

To add to everything he is already dealing with, he is losing his job, his whole department is being laid off. I should be comforting him right now, helping him deal with the work situation, but instead I am the source of his pain and nothing I do seems to help at all. 

Any reasons I thought I had, fell apart when I saw how much pain he is in, I am so ashamed of myself for being so weak, for letting him and myself down. He also does not see me in the same light, maybe never will, I understand that because I don’t even look at myself the same, its going to take a lot of work, and changes before I can.

I had a brief period where I started watching a lot of porn, that was the thing I actually hid from him, but it felt so lonely and empty, right after I stopped that, is when the sexting started and the EA became intense. I didn’t need or want the emotional attachment, im already in love. I pretty much faked that side of it to get what I did need, which was to be wanted sexually, but fake or not it hurts my partner just as much.

Im sorry to hear that it wasn’t a wake up call for your wife, as it was for me, but the OM dumping her is a clear sign that she tossed aside a real marriage, for a fantasy that is really nothing… if she hasn’t realized it yet, she will. It’s a hard lesson to learn.

I hope so much that my partner can look through his pain just enough, to see what we have, and what we could have, before he decides to walk away. I don’t expect him to welcome me back with open arms, but I would do anything for a chance to prove that I can be someone who deserves him. I love him so much, I cant imagine life without him. 

Thank you for your well wishes,


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

Heh, and you sound a lot like my WS. That's good. She's really trying.

The illusion may have shattered 8 years ago for you, but for him, the illusion just shattered more recently; and given the advanced state of your relationship at that time, it was probably a more crushing blow than the one in the past. It still seems that the problem you had 8 years ago played some part in what happened more recently. If so, that's another similarity between us, though I never cheated: A relationship I had with another girl in high school, during a break-up that my WS encouraged, was stuck in my WS' head and may have played some part in the way she handled things. Or at least the way she legitimized her actions...

He's giving you a shot. It may be that, through no further fault of your own, it's just too little too late. But for as long as he's letting you try, if you truly want him as much as you say, and if you're truly as repentant and sure of yourself as you seem to be, then keep doing your best. Keep that morale up, weather the bumps, be supportive, be what he needs. Whether that means he needs space, reassurances, affection, truth, whatever... be there for him and give him what he needs to get through this.

When I lost weight and wasn't eating, she made me meals I could eat throughout the day. When I didn't want to talk, she felt remorse (and cried) but respected my wishes by giving me space. When I rejected her affection, she backed off and tried at a better time. A question, an answer. A thought for a thought. I don't trust her yet, I don't feel the same love for her I once did, and I'm very full of doubt about the future; but every day she buys herself one more day to try to make amends.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

ImprovingWife said:


> *My BS also pretty much saw it progress, this is something that makes it much worse for him… I recently found out that he hated it the whole time, but didn’t say anything. *
> 
> Sometimes he seemed relieved that he got more alone/quiet time to do his own thing and now I know that he was just trying to ignore what was going on as best he could, so that he didn’t have to bring it up. It must have been so hard on him and* I cant believe I didn’t see it*. One specific thing he mentioned recently is with the time stamps on the texts, he compared and there was one time I was texting them both at the same time.


I think this may be at the heart of his problem. He says he saw this coming all along. He ALWAYS KNEW the other guy was interested in you, it just didn't bother him because he trusted you, but it bothered him when you seemed to encourage it, that you took everything this other guy said at face value, while your husband was thinking that this guy was only saying all of that stuff to get you to have a romantic/sexual relationship with him.

When I was younger, some girls NEVER thought a guy was out to get in their pants unless the guy was completely obvious about it. Like it was beyond them to see that this guy NEVER talks to the unattractive girls, NEVER talks to othe guys, but only tries to find or fake a common interest with them. Then the girls would be somewhat shocked when the guy finally did make a move on them. I can't tell you how many times I saw that repeated. By the time women reached their early 20s, they seemed like they could see through this better, and by the time they reached about 25, I rarely noticed a woman being decieved (or at least surprised) about a man's intentions.

Anyway, it has to bother your boyfriend that you thought this guy really was interested in you as a friend, that you thought this guy really had a lot in common with you, when from your boyfriend's perspective he always was just out to get in your pants. Is this something that has come up with your boyfriend?

Out of all of the people playing this game, why do you think this guy struck up a friendship with you? Is this type of thing, both online and in real life, something you think you can recognize in the future?

How do you see your relationship with the other guy now? Do you still think it was a genuine platonic friendship with common interests that evolved into an inappropriate relationship, or do you now think that this other guy had some intention of a romantic/sexual relationship with you right from the start, never being strictly and solely platonic on his end?


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