# I need advice from some strangers



## jaysun (Aug 15, 2020)

I don't know what I expect from this, I've never been part of a forum before. But I need advice from strangers, because friends and family are biased.
I've been married for 16 years and my wife and I have a 15 year old daughter. She's always been an alcoholic and had depression issues. The drinking has had its ups and downs but the last year has been terrible. She's drinking all day every day. She won't eat for days because eating makes it harder to get drunk. She refuses to get help for it. I've threatened divorce before, but she promises she'll get help. In reality she just slows down her drinking for awhile.
The other issue is the affairs. 10 years ago she had an affair with a neighbor. She claimed there was never sex, but it got physical. To her credit, she told me what was going on, I had no idea. She could have just hid it from me. Then last year she had an emotional affair with an ex boyfriend. He lived on the other side of the country so I'm confident it wasn't physical. I confronted her about it, but that didn't stop it. After a few months I got lucky and he died. Then 2 days ago I found out she's messing around with her best friends 26 year old son! She claims nothing has happened, but I have proof that they made plans to get together when I go camping in 2 weeks.
So that's the background. I know we need to get a divorce, I have an appointment on monday with an attorney. We've talked about it in the past and she's agreed that I get custody of our daughter. But she still doesn't want a divorce, she wants to work it out. My question is how do you stay strong and go through with it? When she's crying and begging for another chance. We've come close to a divorce before but I always agree to another chance. I want her to have a good relationship with her daughter. I'm scared of whats going to happen to her if she's on her own, because of the drinking, depression, and a couple past suicide attempts. And I do still love her, I always will. So how the hell do I stay strong enough to go through with it?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Each time you think about wavering, remember all the times she promised things would get better... and never did. 

Remember that history repeats itself and you'd be a fool to believe this time will be different. 

Remember that if nothing changes, nothing will change. Meaning, your wife will not stop cheating and self medicating until she gets her ass into therapy, on medications, and probably into rehab. Do not for a second think things will suddenly be different this time if she doesn't do the work (make the required changes). 

When you start wavering, think to yourself "is this helping me move forward?". Moving forward could mean divorce, or it might not. It means getting yourself AND your daughter out of this hell hole. That will happen by divorce or your wife owning her illness and stepping up. Neither will happen if you don't keep pushing through. 

Your wife's words don't mean **** if her actions don't match. She has proven over and over that she will not change. You have proven to her that you will let her get away with it and your "threats" don't mean ****. Not a good combo. She will NEVER change as long as things keep going the way they are. 

Of course you want her to have a good relationship with her daughter. That's on her though. You cannot force that to happen, married or not. It's not your responsibility. You need to be the best dad you can be, being a good mom is up to her.

Her mental health is not your responsibility. You are responsible for your health, and your daughter's. Your wife is responsible for her health. I understand the worry about what will happen to her, trust me, but it's not your responsibility.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

The more chances you give someone the less respect they have for you. They’re not afraid of losing you and they will ignore any boundaries because they know another chance will be given. 
Your wife is not afraid of losing you because she knows that you will never walk away. You have facilitated her behaviour for years with your passivity, and her disrespect for you is partially because she knows you will always forgive her. 
She is comfortable in disrespecting you and this is your fault for allowing her to do so. 
You don’t seem to have the courage to divorce your wife over her treatment of yourself, maybe you should consider how her drunken promiscuity is affecting your daughter?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

How many different men does she need to play around with before you accept the truth?
Honestly.... I could have stopped reading at she was always an alcoholic.

You are the problem.... your own problem.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Andy1001 said:


> The more chances you give someone the less respect they have for you. They’re not afraid of losing you and they will ignore any boundaries because they know another chance will be given.
> Your wife is not afraid of losing you because she knows that you will never walk away. You have facilitated her behaviour for years with your passivity, and her disrespect for you is partially because she knows you will always forgive her.
> She is comfortable in disrespecting you and this is your fault for allowing her to do so.
> You don’t seem to have the courage to divorce your wife over her treatment of yourself, maybe you should consider how her drunken promiscuity is affecting your daughter?


While I would normally agree wholeheartedly with you, in this case, I don't know if I believe his wife is even thinking ahead enough to base her choices on anything but how quickly she can escape into drunkenness. I don't think she is considering him in any way at all, because there isn't enough room in her mind for anyone except HERSELF.

For her to disrespect him with any purposeful intent could only happen if they were in a relationship, and theirs is NOT any kind of relationship in the normal sense.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

File for divorce and be done with her. She'll likely not stop the drinking. Same with her need for other men.

Set yourself, and her, free. Let her go.

If she wants you back, she'll sober up and SHOW YOU she has changed.

For now, it's too late for her. If she makes the right changes in her life, it's possible she can find happiness with you or someone else.

Most importantly, look after your daughter, as she is going to need at least one stable parent in her life!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

An alcoholic serial cheat who you have given chance after chance for 16 years. How much longer will you wait, another 16? I am all for working on marriage and only divorcing for the most serious of things, but you have so many reasons to know that nothing will change. Even if she stops drinking, she is still a cheat and a liar. What a terrible example she is for your daughter, you need to get her away from this toxic enviromment asap, and should have done so many years ago.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

First, I want to say, I am SO SORRY to hear about what you are going through. It's truly hell-on-earth to be the partner of an alcoholic (or any addict), and after a short while, it starts to warp your sense of reality and your trust in yourself. 

What you are describing is VERY TYPICAL alcoholic behavior - it's straight out of the "book" on addiction.
Have you ever been to any counseling for yourself (and your daughter), and/or any Al-Anon groups?? I would say you need to find a group (online or in-person) for yourself AND your daughter TODAY -- the insight and support you will receive will be invaluable and help you stay strong as you navigate your detachment from your wife.

I know it's hard to leave when she is crying...but you need to stay focused on the fact that she does not have the ability to follow through with anything right now, even IF she wants to. With addiction, they talk about the addict needing to "hit rock bottom" before they are willing to truly get help - that means that the best way for you to help her is to get her to rock bottom as soon as possible, instead of protecting her from the natural consequences of her destructive behavior.

When she is crying and begging you for another chance, there is only a tiny, tiny part of her that is actually invested in YOU and your marriage, or feeling a sense of LOVE for you...most likely the ONLY thing she is worried about is keeping everything the same, so that she can continue to do what she wants, when she wants to do it. 
Right now, in the grip of her addiction, she is totally SELF-centered, and there is NO room for anyone else in her mind and heart, not you, not even her daughter. Think of that -- she ONLY cares about what happens to HER. She is willing hurt (emotionally and maybe even physically) ANYONE who tries to get in her way of gratifying HERSELF. NOTHING ELSE matters to her except what SHE wants. So when she is begging you not to leave, THAT is the mindset that she is coming from. 

The ONLY hope she has is if you actually leave her, and let her live with her choices - it's the ONLY thing that MIGHT get her into rehab. If you stay, she will NEVER - NEVER EVER - stop drinking.

So be strong and think of yourself and your daughter...and contact Al-Anon online (and hopefully by phone) as soon as possible for support and clarity.

Good luck and post back anytime -- there are lots of great people on here too, who will be happy to post to you when you feel like you need to talk!!!


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## gold5932 (Jun 10, 2020)

I am really sorry for you and your child. I am the poster child for too afraid to walk away. I was madly in love with my alcoholic husband from the time I was 24. I was self sufficient, super confident but stupid in the ways of what a relationship is suppose to be. I always thought this will change, he will stop because he just has to because of love, either for me or our daughter. Ha, I was wrong. Addicts don't change for anyone. Rock bottom is what it's called but I bailed 2 years ago and he hasn't hit rock bottom after numerous rehab attempts, and he's 62. My daughter is super smart and lived away since going to college at 18 but just now coming to grips what no relationship with her father means to her life. She's 27

I kicked him out 2 years ago and it's been really hard. But I wish i would of done it when my daughter was 15. I think it would of been easier because we could of leaned on each other more and I would have something other than business to focus on. You need to think about this. You and your daughter need to go to Al-Anon and learn it's not on you. Even if she does stop drinking your relationship will maybe never be good. With our anger, resentment and bitterness it's very hard to look at your spouse with any love again. I wish you luck but know you do have support and talking to people other than family and friends are good for you. Keep your daughter busy, both emotionally and physically and always tell her you love her.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Good advice here. I'm thinking you love the person you think she could be, not who she is. She knows tears and promises are your weaknesses. When she starts, leave. Call 911 if you are afraid of suicide. If she were hitting you over the head with a hammer, you would leave. Her tears/promises are a different kind of hammer.

Perhaps, IC would help you understand. You need to be courageous for your daughter. You need to be firm/resolute and show daughter how to handle such a situation.

Have you read Melody Beattie's book 'Co-dependent No More'? Alcohol is a depressant. She 'escapes' into alcohol, sex, threats because she has no other coping skills. She must develop these in rehab--maybe more than once. You cannot fix her, but you can give her the freedom to seek a better way.

Your guilt is interfering with your judgment. This life is her choice. You must make better choices.

What are the biases of friends and family? Why?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@jaysun We will be here for you, no matter what you decide to do.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@jaysun You said your wife has always been an alcoholic. This goes back to when you were dating as well? So you married her knowing she had a drinking issue? What were your feelings about it back then? Did your wife drink through her pregnancy? Given your daughter's age, was the pregnancy intentional or was this something where you felt you had to step up and be the man and get married? 

The past suicide attempts you mention. Do you hold yourself at all to blame for them? 

You mention going camping in two weeks. Who with? Is this a regular thing? Does your daughter come with you or do you trust her at home with your wife?

What about finances. Will you be financially OK after a divorce settlement? How will she come out? Does she have a job?

Just putting out a bunch of things that have probably been on your mind, or will be soon.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

jaysun said:


> I don't know what I expect from this, I've never been part of a forum before. But I need advice from strangers, because friends and family are biased.
> I've been married for 16 years and my wife and I have a 15 year old daughter. She's always been an alcoholic and had depression issues. The drinking has had its ups and downs but the last year has been terrible. She's drinking all day every day. She won't eat for days because eating makes it harder to get drunk. She refuses to get help for it. I've threatened divorce before, but she promises she'll get help. In reality she just slows down her drinking for awhile.
> The other issue is the affairs. 10 years ago she had an affair with a neighbor. She claimed there was never sex, but it got physical. To her credit, she told me what was going on, I had no idea. She could have just hid it from me. Then last year she had an emotional affair with an ex boyfriend. He lived on the other side of the country so I'm confident it wasn't physical. I confronted her about it, but that didn't stop it. After a few months I got lucky and he died. Then 2 days ago I found out she's messing around with her best friends 26 year old son! She claims nothing has happened, but I have proof that they made plans to get together when I go camping in 2 weeks.
> So that's the background. I know we need to get a divorce, I have an appointment on monday with an attorney. We've talked about it in the past and she's agreed that I get custody of our daughter. But she still doesn't want a divorce, she wants to work it out. My question is how do you stay strong and go through with it? When she's crying and begging for another chance. We've come close to a divorce before but I always agree to another chance. I want her to have a good relationship with her daughter. I'm scared of whats going to happen to her if she's on her own, because of the drinking, depression, and a couple past suicide attempts. And I do still love her, I always will. So how the hell do I stay strong enough to go through with it?


How do you stay strong and go through with it? You remember all the crappy stuff she did to you, and how she didn't care when she was destroying your family...


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

How you do it? For your daughter. You still have few years to give her home she deserves. To help her understand what family should be. To save her from becoming you in the future -marrying a guy like your wife who will wreck her life. 

You still have a chance to shape your daughter future. Once she finish high school, moves out, this will be it, you won’t have much influence. 

It is probably too late to save your wife. But it isn’t too late to save your daughter.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

You need to connect with people in real life who have dealt with this sort of thing before, personally, as well as people who are trained to deal with addictions and the dysfunction that surrounds them.

Search for local al-anon meetings, and go to one this week. And keep going.

You may find there things that may be of use to your daughter. I’m not familiar, but I’ve heard mention of alateen. Later, she may find Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACOA) has something of value.

Go to the provider search tool at psychologytoday.com or goodtherapy.com and look for a therapist for yourself, maybe one with experience dealing with codependency issues.

Read this book:

Why It Can't Work: Detaching from dysfunctional relationships to make room for true love

You’ve been with her a long time. Chances are you have no idea of the damage it has done to you, and the many ways you will conspire against yourself to stay in the status quo. Reach outside this system you are a part of, and seek help from those who know the patterns and pitfalls.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

You have to realize that you can't save her, you never could. If you staying could have fixed her, she would be cured by now. She has to be the one to fix herself and you leaving gives her the chance to see what she is capable of. Right now, she is a victim of herself and you leaving gives her the chance to become a survivor.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I lived 'this' situation while growing up, ugh, with both sides of the family. 
The men were WWII veterans. 

All the rest were very close family members, ladies/wives included.

'My' drunken relatives were functioning alcoholics, all successful in life and 'fun' to be around.

In the end, they all died early, long before their time. 

And they embarrassed the hell out of us children.

Once the alcohol takes hold of an individual, all morality and common sense is lost.
Cheating and drunkenness fly dizzily together.

They say that _The Devil_ lives his life as a spirit. One form of him is an alcoholic spirit.

Out of all of the children, I was the only one who dutifully avoided alcohol. 
Well, I do like beer with my pizza!!
Hamburgers, too!


_THRD-_


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## jaysun (Aug 15, 2020)

bobert said:


> Each time you think about wavering, remember all the times she promised things would get better... and never did.
> 
> Remember that history repeats itself and you'd be a fool to believe this time will be different.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I know my threats have become meaningless and her promises are ********. I just always hoped that we could figure it out. I should have accepted this awhile ago. Thanks again for the advice, it does mean alot.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

GC1234 said:


> How do you stay strong and go through with it? You remember all the crappy stuff she did to you, and how *she didn't care when she was destroying your family*...


She couldn't care, at some point in its progression, empathy is absent in alcoholics.


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## jaysun (Aug 15, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> An alcoholic serial cheat who you have given chance after chance for 16 years. How much longer will you wait, another 16? I am all for working on marriage and only divorcing for the most serious of things, but you have so many reasons to know that nothing will change. Even if she stops drinking, she is still a cheat and a liar. What a terrible example she is for your daughter, you need to get her away from this toxic enviromment asap, and should have done so many years ago.


Thank you. Just to clarify, it hasn't been 16 years of hell. The first 15 had their ups and downs, mostly ups. Yes, she drank too much and it was a problem. She had her fling with the neighbor, then she broke it off and told me about it when I had no idea. He went to the hospital, I got arrested, and we worked through it. And I'm not saying any of that is ok, it wasn't. But that was the extreme low of the 1st 15 years. It's just the last year that the drinking is completely out of control and the other guys happened. But you're absolutely right, even if she stops drinking, she's a cheat and a liar. There's just no going back.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It won’t be easy to end it (if you do). Addicts tend to cling to what they know and fight to stay there. But you and your daughter deserve so much better than you’re getting. I hope you find it.


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## jaysun (Aug 15, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> First, I want to say, I am SO SORRY to hear about what you are going through. It's truly hell-on-earth to be the partner of an alcoholic (or any addict), and after a short while, it starts to warp your sense of reality and your trust in yourself.
> 
> What you are describing is VERY TYPICAL alcoholic behavior - it's straight out of the "book" on addiction.
> Have you ever been to any counseling for yourself (and your daughter), and/or any Al-Anon groups?? I would say you need to find a group (online or in-person) for yourself AND your daughter TODAY -- the insight and support you will receive will be invaluable and help you stay strong as you navigate your detachment from your wife.
> ...


Thank you. I've never gone to Al-Anon before but since so many people have suggested it, I'll try it. I've thought about the rock bottom thing for awhile, I just always hoped it wouldn't come to that. 
You did hit a nerve when you said she just wants to keep everything the same. I've always hoped that being a stable influence in her life would help her. But in reality all I did was make her comfortable and enabled her to do whatever the hell she wanted with no consequences. Thanks for the help.


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## jaysun (Aug 15, 2020)

gold5932 said:


> I am really sorry for you and your child. I am the poster child for too afraid to walk away. I was madly in love with my alcoholic husband from the time I was 24. I was self sufficient, super confident but stupid in the ways of what a relationship is suppose to be. I always thought this will change, he will stop because he just has to because of love, either for me or our daughter. Ha, I was wrong. Addicts don't change for anyone. Rock bottom is what it's called but I bailed 2 years ago and he hasn't hit rock bottom after numerous rehab attempts, and he's 62. My daughter is super smart and lived away since going to college at 18 but just now coming to grips what no relationship with her father means to her life. She's 27
> 
> I kicked him out 2 years ago and it's been really hard. But I wish i would of done it when my daughter was 15. I think it would of been easier because we could of leaned on each other more and I would have something other than business to focus on. You need to think about this. You and your daughter need to go to Al-Anon and learn it's not on you. Even if she does stop drinking your relationship will maybe never be good. With our anger, resentment and bitterness it's very hard to look at your spouse with any love again. I wish you luck but know you do have support and talking to people other than family and friends are good for you. Keep your daughter busy, both emotionally and physically and always tell her you love her.


Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry for what you and your daughter have been through. Since everyone is suggesting Al-Anon, I'm gonna give it a shot.


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## jaysun (Aug 15, 2020)

sunsetmist said:


> Good advice here. I'm thinking you love the person you think she could be, not who she is. She knows tears and promises are your weaknesses. When she starts, leave. Call 911 if you are afraid of suicide. If she were hitting you over the head with a hammer, you would leave. Her tears/promises are a different kind of hammer.
> 
> Perhaps, IC would help you understand. You need to be courageous for your daughter. You need to be firm/resolute and show daughter how to handle such a situation.
> 
> ...


I love the person I've seen her be. She was a good wife and mother for many years. Not the person she is now. I'll look into the book, thanks for the recommendation. I'm sorry, I don't know what IC is?
Maybe biases was the wrong word. I have great friends and family. I just wanted the advice of strangers that maybe have some experience with this. I've definitely found that here. Thanks again to everyone, whether it's tough love or sympathy, it's all been good advice.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

jaysun said:


> I'm sorry, I don't know what IC is?


IC is individual counseling.


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## jaysun (Aug 15, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> @jaysun You said your wife has always been an alcoholic. This goes back to when you were dating as well? So you married her knowing she had a drinking issue? What were your feelings about it back then? Did your wife drink through her pregnancy? Given your daughter's age, was the pregnancy intentional or was this something where you felt you had to step up and be the man and get married?
> 
> The past suicide attempts you mention. Do you hold yourself at all to blame for them?
> 
> ...


That's a lot to answer, I'll do my best.
Yes, she drank too much when we were dating and I married her knowing that. She didn't have a lot of positive influences in her life back then and she said she wanted to change. I was young and naive enough to think I could help her. She drank minimally during the pregnancy, just a handful of times and never got drunk. The pregnancy was not intentional, but we had discussed marriage and kids. We both knew we would get married, the pregnancy just sped it up. Our marriage was absolutely not because I felt I had to step up.
I do not blame myself for the suicide attempts. I'm a firefighter/paramedic so I've had a lot of training on the subject. My mom also suffers from depression and has made a couple of attempts. Hell, the first suicide attempt I was ever dispatched to was for my mom. But that's a whole different story.
Camping is with my cousins, it's an annual trip to the boundary waters. My daughter does not come with, I trust her with my wife. However, due to recent events, I'm probably not going this year.
Financially I'm ****ed! We both are. She has a part time job. But hey, just think of all the money I'll save by not paying for her alcohol.


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## jaysun (Aug 15, 2020)

PieceOfSky said:


> You need to connect with people in real life who have dealt with this sort of thing before, personally, as well as people who are trained to deal with addictions and the dysfunction that surrounds them.
> 
> Search for local al-anon meetings, and go to one this week. And keep going.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice and the book recommendation. You're right about it causing damage. It's scary how I slowly accepted this as a way of life. I'm assuming most husbands don't lose sleep wondering if their drunk wife is doing something behind their back.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

jaysun said:


> And I do still love her, I always will. So how the hell do I stay strong enough to go through with it?


What love got to do with it, man. She was what she was but, she's not that now, nor she's been what you say she was for a while. Get out while you can. Your emotional well being is what's stake here. She's not going do a thing until she hits dirt bottom, and that's a conditional "if" she would do anything. You shouldn't be/feel responsible for her anymore. Get out of this abnormal life you're living, there's a better life in the outside; Guaranteed.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

jaysun said:


> You did hit a nerve when you said she just wants to keep everything the same. I've always hoped that being a stable influence in her life would help her. But in reality all I did was make her comfortable and enabled her to do whatever the hell she wanted with no consequences. Thanks for the help.


It hits a nerve because it’s true. Keep repeating this to yourself. THAT’S how you get through it.

Yours alcohol, mine crack. You’re in love with the person you know they COULD be if they just got their sh*t together. Not with the person they actually are. The person you love does not exist.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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