# Financial motive - one man's quandary



## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

My biggest gripe in the marriage, 80%, is money. We just don't have the same goals. She really hates working and doesn't see any need to supplement my income for a better retirement, school, trips, economic stability etc.

I went to see an attorney and he gave me a ballpark figure of what I would owe her for the rest of my life in a divorce, and it pretty much coincided with the modest amount of money I'd like her to be contributing to the family.

Moreover, if I divorce for money I will live the same or worse lifestyle as now. It isn't rocket science, but I certainly feel trapped and just wondering how this weighs in with other people in this subforum.


----------



## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

do you have kids? ( i assume so, school trips)

how old? Is she trying to be a SAHM with small children? or are they all in school?

What is her excuse for not working? Or does she just say she really hates it.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You'll be no worse off if you dump her, and can then find someone who does contribute financially. Better yet, move to Texas and divorce her later - she'll get a lot less than in CA, and you can move on to a better life with someone better.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> You'll be no worse off if you dump her, and can then find someone who does contribute financially. Better yet, move to Texas and divorce her later - she'll get a lot less than in CA, and you can move on to a better life with someone better.


Agreed.

Dump her and find a real woman who wants to help with the financial burden. If she has any working background or education, find a lawyer who'll show you how to impute an income to her.

And don't forget, lazy women like this are leeches. If she's not sucking your blood...she'll go after the next fool who'll put up with her sitting on her butt. And so make sure you put a clause in your divorce decree that shuts off alimony when she lives with someone or re-marries.

This will get worse if you do nothing...you'll start resenting her lack of contribution more and more and you'll end up owing her more money for a longer term. 

There's no way I'd tolerate a woman who wouldn't earn a living when asked repeatedly to help out...she's not a partner, she's a dependent...and you are being taken advantage of.


----------



## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

sixty-eight said:


> do you have kids? ( i assume so, school trips)
> 
> how old? Is she trying to be a SAHM with small children? or are they all in school?
> 
> What is her excuse for not working? Or does she just say she really hates it.


We have a nearly 4-year old, in part-time day care for his own social development (which is behind), but no sign she is interested in jobs.

In nearly 14 years she's probably had 25 temp jobs and usually gets fired or quits after weeks of complaining. The root cause is how she was brought up; her mother never had a single job and never even graduated high school. Frankly it does reach into the level of a mental health issue.


----------



## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

imperfectworld said:


> We have a nearly 4-year old, in part-time day care for his own social development (which is behind), but no sign she is interested in jobs.
> 
> In nearly 14 years she's probably had 25 temp jobs and usually gets fired or quits after weeks of complaining. The root cause is how she was brought up; her mother never had a single job and never even graduated high school. Frankly it does reach into the level of a mental health issue.


So she has worked, she just wont hold onto a job. What does she say she does while your preschooler is at daycare? What are her plans for when your child starts school? Does she have any higher education? When she worked before, were there any perks for her? Ie: did you split the housework/ childcare during that time? Was there any percentage of her pay that didnt go into the family account, that she could keep for herself?

Its to your financial benefit that she figure out how to work whether you stay together or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Why is money an issue?

Seriously, if your biggest gripe is that she doesn't want to work so that you can retire, there are other ways of achieving that.

Did you marry her expecting she would help you retire?


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

IW, does your wife actually know this is how you feel? You may well be assuming that she should be your wing man in earning money but she may think that you do not. You cannot make assumptions. Sit down and talk about it, lay out a plan of how you need to earn money for the future, education, retirement, etc. Discuss the pros and cons, get her involved in coming up with the plan, if she sees the figures, the financial needs, you will get her to buy in.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

imperfectworld said:


> My biggest gripe in the marriage, 80%, is money. We just don't have the same goals. She really hates working and doesn't see any need to supplement my income for a better retirement, school, trips, economic stability etc.
> 
> I went to see an attorney and he gave me a ballpark figure of what I would owe her for the rest of my life in a divorce, and it pretty much coincided with the modest amount of money I'd like her to be contributing to the family.
> 
> Moreover, if I divorce for money I will live the same or worse lifestyle as now. It isn't rocket science, but I certainly feel trapped and just wondering how this weighs in with other people in this subforum.


Married, you get to spend the rest of your days with an indifferent partner, making a sum of money you probably don't even control.

Divorced, whatever you were left with would be your's and there is always the chance that you could latch onto one of the very abundant employed yet single females or one who has taken a wealthier man to the cleaners or put one (or two) in the grave, assuming control of 100% of their wealth. Play your cards right and you could be living large with some other guy's money in addition to your own. Single women aren't hard to find.


----------



## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Have you discussed what the financial future will look like for you both? Does she have goals for how to spend retirement? Is she analytical (can you show her retirment projections)? Are you one emergency away from being flat broke? Is she happy with the present financial situation? Do you both create and agree on a monthly budget? Is she engaged at all with the family's finances?


----------



## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

These questions about planning and discussions cut to the root of the issue - she doesn't understand money at any level. Her understanding is stunted at a grade school level. It's quite sad really. I've tried for years to help but there is no simulating the growth that would have happened if she'd lived on her own before we got married.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> These questions about planning and discussions cut to the root of the issue - she doesn't understand money at any level. Her understanding is stunted at a grade school level. It's quite sad really. I've tried for years to help but there is no simulating the growth that would have happened if she'd lived on her own before we got married.


lol, I doubt she's that stunted. She just doesn't want to learn..it would mean that she's now responsible. By feigning ignorance, its your problem.

No doubt if you divorced her and she had to get off her ass and work, she'd become a financial expert in a hurry.


----------



## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

She's the product of a very poor school district; barely making through it the lower-tier classes in HS. 

She can tell you what half of $16 is, but I'm not sure she could come up with the price for 25% off $16. These sort of deficiencies would show up at work, the boss would "correct" her, and she'd burst into tears right in front of everyone.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

imperfectworld said:


> These questions about planning and discussions cut to the root of the issue - she doesn't understand money at any level. Her understanding is stunted at a grade school level. It's quite sad really. I've tried for years to help but there is no simulating the growth that would have happened if she'd lived on her own before we got married.


Not everyone who lived on their own first is good with money, either. 

Not everyone is good with money, period.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Married, you get to spend the rest of your days with an indifferent partner, making a sum of money you probably don't even control.
> 
> Divorced, whatever you were left with would be your's and there is always the chance that you could latch onto one of the very abundant employed yet single females or *one who has taken a wealthier man to the cleaners or put one (or two) in the grave*, assuming control of 100% of their wealth. Play your cards right and you could be living large with some other guy's money in addition to your own. Single women aren't hard to find.


Wow, *that *sounds awesome. 

Make sure you have a big life insurance policy first though; you wouldn't want her to be disappointed!


----------



## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Could it be that she feels very insecure? If she doesn't have much education and was always in the lower rungs in a poor district, she may have zero confidence. And of course once working gets overwhelmed and criticism is taken personally instead of for professional growth.

Has she ever been to any kind of counseling? Does she do volunteer work or anything that brings her satisfaction outside of the home? Is there ANY career she finds interesting? Something working from home in her comfort zone? Babysitting other kids? Working at a daycare where she can see her own kids during the day and after school once in school? Would she be interested in community college?

Ignorance and fear and insecurity don't equal stupid, but they can mask as stupid. I don't think you have found the root of the problem yet. 

But right now if she's keeping the house clean, doing the errands, laundry, meal prep and most of the child rearing, she certainly IS contributing significantly. Now, once the children are old enough to be out of the house, sure a part-time job should be expected. And once they are old enough to be at home alone and have some after school activities then sure, a full-time job should be expected.

If you had to pay a housekeeper, a dry cleaners and a nanny and do the cooking and errands yourself, you can picture how much more you'd have to pay and how much more time you'd have to spend on domestic stuff. But a plan for a gradual entry into the working world might be a better, more palatable (and manageable emotionally) approach for her.


----------



## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

Absolutely she is very insecure. It's been a long path to try to help her, with a patchwork of college classes, adult education, therapy, personal trainers, etc. Nothing really seems to "take" at least not in the long term. 

What prompts my entry to this subforum is that her therapist is asking me "what if she doesn't get better?"

There's lots of love in this marriage but I do need to feel some hope that she can contribute financially once the SAHM primary phase wraps up.


----------



## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

I've been mulling this over for a few days and I don't think my soul will let my human heart, the love I have for her, repress the problem. 

Over the weekend we found ourselves in her hometown and she showed me the terrible apartment she almost entirely grew up in. 

I didn't want to bombard this thread with details, but we did have to sell our house this year to pay for mental/medical/childcare on my single income (CPS came by and declared her unfit to care alone for our son). Living in an apartment has been rough on me but feels normal to her- it's how she grew up. And I'm realizing a home may be more important than this marriage to my soul. She says she wants a house, but how do I explain this...? It's the way a 6-year old wants a bicycle. Now an 11-year old on the other hand can REALLY want the bicycle because they can have a paper route and make it happen. 

I may never find myself in a house again due to draconian alimony payments. But perhaps that's better than living alongside someone oblivious to my dreams.


----------



## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

If she is laying around on her bum not doing anything, or not having kids to watch, then she probably should get up and work. If she doesn't have a disability keeping her from working then she needs to. If everyone had the luxury of saying, "I don't like working so I won't." Then no one would be making money. If she is a SAHM and is raising kids and cleaning the house, that could be different because daycare is expensive. If they are all school age, she could get a job during their school hours at least. Sorry to hear what is going on. Just tell her how you feel about it and that you are considering divorce. Maybe get a financial counselor and have you both go to the appointment so she can see the money in the present and what could happen in the future.


----------



## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

imperfectworld said:


> I've been mulling this over for a few days and I don't think my soul will let my human heart, the love I have for her, repress the problem.
> 
> Over the weekend we found ourselves in her hometown and she showed me the terrible apartment she almost entirely grew up in.
> 
> I didn't want to bombard this thread with details, but we did have to sell our house this year to pay for mental/medical/childcare on my single income *(CPS came by and declared her unfit to care alone for our son).*


Not being able to keep an office job is one thing. Having CPS come to your home and declare your wife unfit is *MAJOR*.

This thread is weird. Why are you concerned about money? Child Protective Services came to your house and declared your wife unfit!?

I don't know...this is a strange thread.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

What? !!!!!!! How old are you, years married? Just the one child?


----------



## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

Heatherknows said:


> Not being able to keep an office job is one thing. Having CPS come to your home and declare your wife unfit is *MAJOR*.
> 
> This thread is weird. Why are you concerned about money? Child Protective Services came to your house and declared your wife unfit!?
> 
> I don't know...this is a strange thread.


I'd have to agree...and it's my own thread.  My wife and I are both very unusual people and when I come to TAM I try to isolate specific topics, but of course there's a large complicated backstory to it that I'd rather not try to drag people through. Actually I see this quite a bit in threads here...always a challenge to figure out how much to say upfront.

I was thinking it could be a slightly common - having divergent financial goals but as the breadwinner being trapped anyway because alimony lowers the standard of living forever (in my state anyway).

CPS came after my wife's mental breakdown, it was a checkup and not that big a deal in the greater scheme of things.

We've been married nearly 15 years and have a 3-year-old.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Who is the woman that you have your eye on? 

Instead of consulting a lawyer about the financial impact of D, why don't you put plans in place to gain primary custodial custody of your child? That is the most important thing or should be for a father under the circumstances you find yourself. 

Your life sounds difficult as does that of your child and wife. However, I assume she did not deceive you about her education and her intellectual level and earning potential was apparent well before you committed and decided to have a child. 

The severity of her mental problems and the mental crisis was unanticipated. So now you find yourself a father with a wife who will probably never be able to provide your child or herself with an enriched environment on her own. This difficult situation does not suit your current goals for wealth. 

Make an orderly, responsible and compassionate exit. Don't leave because you think single working women are lining up to want to pay half of a house note, 1/2 of your child support, act as surrogate parent for your child and provide you with all of the other perks of domestic life. 

If such women exist, the competition is fierce for them. Be realistic. You want to give as little as possible to your wife and child and walk away, why do you think you will find a generous partner? Like attracts like. Your dreams of wealth when you are on your own, takes more than wishful thinking. Discipline, the ability to delay satisfaction, vision and sacrifice. 

Attaining financial security from scratch is as difficult as taking responsibility for your choices, taking care of people who depend on you, avoiding selfishness and pulling out all of the stops to make a go of marriage because you love your wife and child. You talk about your heart, where is it?


----------



## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

Good comments, Catherine, you capture the nuances of the situation well. In particular, that I never expected to become a millionaire, but on the other hand living in an apartment with nothing, in my mid-forties despite a decent career, is tough to swallow. 

There is certainly no other woman I fancy, and in all likelihood I wouldn't find a new partner. That's my achilles heel - I was abused (long story) and married my wife as she was the first female who liked me. I'm not remotely interested in re-exploring that part of my life.

I actually was talking to the attorney about custody; it was what got me in the office to try to think of what was best for my son if she was to never come back from institutionalization. That didn't happen, fortunately.

This is the "considering" subforum and that's all this is. I'm pretty long-suffering and will just keep it up. A couple more years and I can save for another house and very carefully manage the money once again through crappy economic cycles, etc. Another few decades shouldn't be a huge deal and then I'll get to find out what it was all about in the end...well we all do.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Is there a social worker involved? Could your wife get training for a job that is appropriate for her abilities? Work is good for her psychologically and of course economically for the family. What are the consequences for her if she does not work? The need to work is a great incentive to preforming well enough to keep a job. Does she know that you are considering D?

I don't blame you for feeling bleak. However, there are many things you can do to improve your situation. First, find happiness just where you are now. Being unhappy about living in an apartment is not productive. Placing your energy into making it a comfortable home and planning for a the purchase of a house in the future is better. Lamenting your wife's limitations is not productive. Getting her the assistance she needs and not tolerating lack of effort is better. You have a child, if your childhood was challenging, make sure his/her childhood is secure and nurturing.


----------

