# He wants a divorce and she does not



## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Bit of the story is. 

Married 24 years
Two children
Good jobs
Ages 46 and 45

E (husband) and S (wife) are divorcing and its E who wants a divorce while S does not. She spent the last three years refusing him sex. He all the while thought she had a physiological or psychological problem and accepted that their sex life was from then on, over, started new hobbies. 

A friend of S’s convinced her that if E was not getting it from her he was getting it from someone else. Then suddenly she came home and tried to have sex with him. For a few days he thought she was unwell mentally and resisted having sex with her. Then she got a lot worse and they had an argument which led her to leave and come to our house. You can learn a lot from an upset person. It turns out there was nothing wrong with her at all. She just thought he wanted more sex that she was prepared to give and then when he got tired of asking he stopped asking and she at first thought it was a good thin, but then got concerned about it and spoke to a friend at work. The friend told her men have to have sex and if he is not having it at home, he is definitely having it somewhere else. 

Now E, who apparently has not had sex with anyone for three years, knows the truth and wants a divorce. He is upset that she made him think something was wrong. She is upset that he wants a divorce. 

They are both older than us and it is awkward but we suggested they get professional help.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

He has the right idea. She sounds like a psycho.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MaiChi said:


> Bit of the story is.
> 
> Married 24 years
> Two children
> ...


I guess they need to try marriage counseling. It's impossible for the reader to know what happened first. Did she realize he wanted a divorce and so she stopped sleeping with him, or did he what a divorce because she stopped sleeping with him, and did he do something to make her stop sleeping with him, or is it just her. 

So about all I can suggest is marriage counseling. I can tell you this She can't stop him from getting a divorce. You don't need the other person's agreement. If they are not willing to sign it then you just serve them papers.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I have a friend in a similar situation who stopped and then came to her senses. She panicked when she bragged a little too much at work and was embarrassed by an older lady who told her ‘you will be left for a younger and slimmer woman’. But we’d all been telling her for a long time she should leave if she wasn’t desiring him. 


She’s doing all the right things, seeing a doctor etc, losing weight and even cooking more. They’re young, and I’m glad she’s realised on time. She takes all the blame and I hope they work it out.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

THis sadly is all her fault...spouses who think the are wheeling power by controlling sex will find that in the end itisteir undoing because it leads the other spouse to lose not only love but attraction to that spouse....she won the battle but lost the war. Remind her that there will be a lot of women out there that will happily putout for him.


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

MaiChi said:


> Bit of the story is.
> 
> Married 24 years
> Two children
> ...


Play stupid games…. Win stupid prizes!

I can’t understand, why is it so many women treat sex as a tool to control their spouse…


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

Lostinthought61 said:


> THis sadly is all her fault...spouses who think the are wheeling power by controlling sex will find that in the end itisteir undoing because it leads the other spouse to lose not only love but attraction to that spouse....she won the battle but lost the war. Remind her that there will be a lot of women out there that will happily putout for him.


Live by the “sword”…. Die by the “sword”


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Just want to make sure I have this correct. She made him think she had physiological or psychological problems or did he just assume?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@MaiChi,

Is this the same couple you talked about here: What else can a woman do?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MaiChi said:


> Bit of the story is.
> 
> Married 24 years
> Two children
> ...


Sounds to me like S is mentally unstable/ill. Her husband was correct to think she is unwell mentally. Her husband is right to divorce her, he has done fine for three years without her, he will be better off without her for the rest of his days. She had three years to put him through hell, that is 1/8 of the time they have been "married", who knows what he went through befor she decided to turn the sex off totally. He doesn't ow her one more second of his one and only life. 

With a good job and still young, he shouldn't have much trouble finding women better than his "wife" to happily enjoy his attention. Surely he can recount to his next love what happened with his first wife. And he is wiser for this experience, won't tolerate being abused again.

Who cares if she is upset he wants a divorce. As they say, she made her bed, now gets to sleep in it.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

PieceOfSky said:


> @MaiChi,
> 
> Is this the same couple you talked about here: What else can a woman do?


Yes, if this isn't the same couple, what ever happened with the woman in that story?


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## OddOne (Sep 27, 2018)

PieceOfSky said:


> @MaiChi,
> 
> Is this the same couple you talked about here: What else can a woman do?


Appear to be a different couple. OP says the husband in that thread is 54 while the wife is 48.


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## OddOne (Sep 27, 2018)

S is lucky that E didn't assume she's been cheating on him these last 3 years. Or maybe he did assume that but didn't want to say anything without strong evidence. To a lot of people, a dead bedroom is a red flag. And even though neither, from what we know so far, has cheated, she still denied him intimacy under false pretenses. As others have said, she deserves the consequences she's facing.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

She refused to have sex with him for three years. 

What's to fix here??

He's got the right idea.....see ya!!!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

She’s lucky he has remained married to her this long.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Wow, I don't blame him. She made her bed, now she can lay in it - alone.

Why didn't she talk to him about it 3 years ago? If frequency was an issue why not talk about it and try to find a compromiise?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

How does this work exactly? You're like the Dear Abby in your social circle so the friends run to you to solve their problems and then you bring the problems to TAM? Do you tell them you have to consult your crystal ball and will get back to them? Why not just send your friends here so we can get it direct from the horse's mouth?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> How does this work exactly? You're like the Dear Abby in your social circle so the friends run to you to solve their problems and then you bring the problems to TAM? Do you tell them you have to consult your crystal ball and will get back to them? Why not just send your friends here so we can get it direct from the horse's mouth?


I was sort of wondering about the neighbor getting in a fight with hubby then running next door spilling all of their intimate problems. We have always been friendly with the neighbors but if the same happened here, it would be awkward for sure. Maybe women are just generally more willing to talk with other women about that stuff. My wife hears a lot of the intimate details from the wives of our group of friends. We guys are talking about BBQ, cars, sports, surface stuff.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

After 3 years, you build a lot of resentment. No wonder he doesn't want her any more and wants a divorce.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

He has been in it 2.5 yrs too long already.

My mom was that way toward my dad for years...at some point the resentment was great enough he no longer wanted her around him. After a while i think she saw the error and started trying to change..but he was done.

During the last years, he finally quit wearing his hearing aids and stayed in living room with TV up while she stayed in BR watching TV. He quit even trying to kiss her and quit brushing his teeth so she would not try to kiss him. He had long since developed ED which added to her ridicule of him to her friends and sisters. 

Before he got to the I'm done stage, he came out of a VA hospital proceedure where a 30 yr old buxom blond nurse basically had to have her tits in his face for much of it. He had a serious boner and a 😃. He said I guess it does still work fine. 

I told my wife i think his ED is relate to mother dearest and her personality. She too started trying to change but it was too late. Dad was done. He used to be the social butterfly that never met a stranger...one of the guys that never took a date to a dance back(late 50s& 60s) in the day but danced with all the girls. Mom did her best to kill that butterfly. 

When in hospital to get blood sugar stable, she went home for a while, he ate lunch and died of heart attack, listening to the oldies of his teens/20s on the cable tv. Nurse came in for tray and he was gone. 

My sister and i both wished he would have divorced our mom and found someone who treated him with love 20 yrs earlier. Their 50th was cancelled because he went in hospital from blood sugar. She now has a lot of regrets for the past....but it's a day late and a dollar short. 

I would tell his wife if you were him you would have divorced her 2.5 yrs ago. Give him the divorce so he can find a good woman that will love him properly like he deserves.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I guess they need to try marriage counseling. It's impossible for the reader to know what happened first. Did she realize he wanted a divorce and so she stopped sleeping with him, or did he what a divorce because she stopped sleeping with him, and did he do something to make her stop sleeping with him, or is it just her.
> 
> So about all I can suggest is marriage counseling. I can tell you this She can't stop him from getting a divorce. You don't need the other person's agreement. If they are not willing to sign it then you just serve them papers.


At this point he is really annoyed with her and keeps saying there is no point carrying on with the marriage. Whether someone will talk him back or not we don't know.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Well if this is the only info we have it certainly appears we have a case of evil LD.

What’s in it for E to try and work it out with a psycho? More pain and suffering, that’s it.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I guess they need to try marriage counseling. It's impossible for the reader to know what happened first. Did she realize he wanted a divorce and so she stopped sleeping with him, or did he what a divorce because she stopped sleeping with him, and did he do something to make her stop sleeping with him, or is it just her.
> 
> So about all I can suggest is marriage counseling. I can tell you this She can't stop him from getting a divorce. You don't need the other person's agreement. If they are not willing to sign it then you just serve them papers.


She did not want sex as often as he did so she kept refusing it and crying if he carried on asking. So he stopped and waited, then when nothing happened he tried to get her to see a doctor but she would not. Three years passed and then she suddenly wanted it and he did not want the same experience so he said no. But she thinks he has been having it from someone else.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

seadoug105 said:


> Play stupid games…. Win stupid prizes!
> 
> I can’t understand, why is it so many women treat sex as a tool to control their spouse…


I think men do it too. not just women. What is the way to stop it without divorce?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

MaiChi said:


> I think men do it too. not just women. What is the way to stop it without divorce?


The HD partner needs to kick off a conversation about what the problems are and then the LD/withholder agrees to work on those problems or doesn’t.

In this case the HD partner attempted to see if there was a physical problem (doctor). The LD partner says no but at the same time doesn’t offer any solutions. At that point they’re heading for divorce, it’s just a matter of time.

In this case that was a 3 year process.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MaiChi said:


> At his point he is really annoyed with her and keeps saying there is no point carrying on with the marriage. Whether someone will talk him back or not we don't know.


She has been lying to him by letting him believe she had a mental problem. So yes, if for no other reason the "marriage" is over. She needs to become acquainted with keeping cats as companions.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

If she led him to believe there was some mental problem for 3 years then I think the trust is gone and she blew up the marriage no different than going out and cheating. No trust = No chance. Tell her congrats on getting the douche canoe of the year award.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

At some point the rejected partner is just going to say to hell with it and turn it off altogether. They give up trying after being rejected so many times. Who wants to have to grovel and beg to get your partner to want you? Maybe he is getting it somewhere else, who knows? But it seems he’s definitely disconnected from her emotionally. He also saw through her exaggerated and disingenuous attempts to suddenly want to have sex.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MaiChi said:


> She did not want sex as often as he did so she kept refusing it and crying if he carried on asking. So he stopped and waited, then when nothing happened he tried to get her to see a doctor but she would not. Three years passed and then she suddenly wanted it and he did not want the same experience so he said no. But she thinks he has been having it from someone else.


They've lost trust and love so they may as well divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MaiChi said:


> She did not want sex as often as he did so she kept refusing it and crying if he carried on asking. .


For 3 years?????

That's not a case of differing libidos. That is a case of serious relationship issues and complete loss of attraction for him. 

Did she really think that a healthy, adult male was to continue to love and honor and cherish her being chronically rejected and denied for years??

All actions and inactions have outcomes. Your spouse falling out of love with you and no longer wanting to remain in a sexually exclusive relationship after rejecting them for years is a completely logical and predictable outcome.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MaiChi said:


> Bit of the story is.
> 
> Married 24 years
> Two children
> ...



Now to be fair, IMHO they are both a couple of crackpots and they're both responsible for the destruction of the marriage. 

So he thought she was mental and so he took up golf???? 

Listen, several years ago my wife started going off the rails emotionally and her libido went from 100mph -0 and she herself said something was wrong. It took me hauling her to several MCs, doctors, shrinks, endocrinologists etc until an internal med doctor was able to link all the pieces together and determined she had pre-menstrual dysmorphic disorder (PMDD) and got her the treatment she needed. 

My point here is there was a major shift in her mental state and behavior and major change in our marital dynamics and I did not take up golf and fishing and lived a life of marital celibacy for 3 years. 

And I didn't fish and golf for 3 years until she got afraid of me sticking it in someone else so she came home and wanted to cuddle up one day and so THEN was the time I decided to divorce her azz. 

They're both a couple of crackpots. They both deserve the situation they are in. And they don't jive and work well together in a marital relationship. 

Divorce is probably the best thing for both of them so my recommendation is keep your nose out of their personal business and let them do what they want as long as it is not interfering or harming your life in any way. 

You are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with. If these two knuckleheads are two of your 5 people, then they are bringing a whole lot of crazy into your life. Is that where you want to be???


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

MaiChi said:


> I think men do it too. not just women. What is the way to stop it without divorce?


Never heard of men treat sex as a tool to control their spouse, NEVER!
Women are the gate keepers to sex, men are the gatekeepers to relationships!


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## OddOne (Sep 27, 2018)

MaiChi said:


> She did not want sex as often as he did so she kept refusing it and crying if he carried on asking. So he stopped and waited, then when nothing happened he tried to get her to see a doctor but she would not. Three years passed and then she suddenly wanted it and he did not want the same experience so he said no. But she thinks he has been having it from someone else.


What changed to make her suddenly want it after 3 years?


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## 351147 (Sep 2, 2021)

This could have been easily fixed if both E and S just talked about it. I get it, sometimes a conversation like this is hard but you married someone, that is a partnership and you should be able to talk about things. If you can't then you married the wrong person. 

Both are at fault in my opinion if they didn't talk about their feelings to each other. Asking a friend on how your spouse feels is like asking your mechanic on how your child is doing in school. It doesn't make sense.


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## OddOne (Sep 27, 2018)

MaiChi said:


> ...What is the way to stop it without divorce?


There isn't an assured way to stop it. Maybe marriage counseling can help, maybe it can't. At the least, she needs to find out the underlying reasons for her rejecting him for so long before she can best prevent the db from happening again, whether with him or someone else. The problem is that now her efforts are going to feel insincere to him. He's always going to be wondering when her mood will change back to not desiring him. Does she actually want him for him, or because he's conveniently available (or so she selfishly assumed to always be the case) and doesn't want to have an affair on the side?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Wow. The only question my neighbors ever posed to me was whether or not they could borrow a cup of sugar.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

MaiChi said:


> She did not want sex as often as he did so she kept refusing it and crying if he carried on asking. So he stopped and waited, then when nothing happened he tried to get her to see a doctor but she would not. Three years passed and then she suddenly wanted it and he did not want the same experience so he said no. But she thinks he has been having it from someone else.


He’s right to divorce her, and who cares if he’s getting it elsewhere since she clearly doesn’t want him. Please don’t advise this woman to somehow rope this poor Guy back into her web.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

NJHubby47 said:


> This could have been easily fixed if both E and S just talked about it. I get it, sometimes a conversation like this is hard but you married someone, that is a partnership and you should be able to talk about things. If you can't then you married the wrong person.
> 
> Both are at fault in my opinion if they didn't talk about their feelings to each other. Asking a friend on how your spouse feels is like asking your mechanic on how your child is doing in school. It doesn't make sense.


He tried talking, he suggested a doctor, she cried when he asked for sex.
Nothing is going to fix this relationship. He needs to divorce. All we are hearing is the wife’s side to her friend. And it STILL seems that she is the cause of all this. My vote is divorce.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

MaiChi said:


> I think men do it too. not just women. What is the way to stop it without divorce?


No, it is predominately women. Yes, it happens the other way around but that is the exception.

The way to stop it without a divorce would have been for the husband to exercise strong leadership 2-1/2 years ago (before the resentment built to an unrecoverable level), telling his wife that a sexless marriage is not acceptable to him and they would either improve it together or he would be leaving. While simultaneously improving his own attractiveness (either for her, or her replacement).


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> He has been in it 2.5 yrs too long already.
> 
> My mom was that way toward my dad for years...at some point the resentment was great enough he no longer wanted her around him. After a while i think she saw the error and started trying to change..but he was done.
> 
> ...


Tear or two to my heart. What I don't get is why, if you do not want sex any more, you do not make arrangements for the spouse who wants it to get it some place else? Why not tell him/her to look elsewhere or divorce?


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> How does this work exactly? You're like the Dear Abby in your social circle so the friends run to you to solve their problems and then you bring the problems to TAM? Do you tell them you have to consult your crystal ball and will get back to them? Why not just send your friends here so we can get it direct from the horse's mouth?


Not exactly. They are older than us. We occasionally go out with them either as four or as a larger group. She turned up really upset and got even more upset while clearly blaming herself but saying she does not want a divorce. Being older than us, it was an awkward meeting. We were the second stop among friends. We have no solution to offer as she clearly says she is wrong.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Going 3 years without sex shows she has no interest. Her husband does have interest. She doesn’t want a divorce, but has basically insured one by her actions...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MaiChi said:


> Not exactly. They are older than us. We occasionally go out with them either as four or as a larger group. She turned up really upset and got even more upset while clearly blaming herself but saying she does not want a divorce. Being older than us, it was an awkward meeting. We were the second stop among friends. We have no solution to offer as she clearly says she is wrong.


Tell her to get some cats


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MaiChi said:


> She did not want sex as often as he did so she kept refusing it and crying if he carried on asking. So he stopped and waited, then when nothing happened he tried to get her to see a doctor but she would not. Three years passed and then she suddenly wanted it and he did not want the same experience so he said no. But she thinks he has been having it from someone else.


Maybe he has someone else. None of her concern. Especially since he is divorcing her.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

MaiChi said:


> Not exactly. They are older than us. We occasionally go out with them either as four or as a larger group. She turned up really upset and got even more upset while clearly blaming herself but saying she does not want a divorce. Being older than us, it was an awkward meeting. We were the second stop among friends. We have no solution to offer as she clearly says she is wrong.


Tell her, "Suck it up buttercup. You did not want to love on your hubby so he is ready to throw in the towel...dont blame him for that."


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This is all silly. 

You are neither a MC or divorce attorney so what real help are you able to give her. 

If you want to provide some real-world assistance to her dilemma, you could offer some recommendations on movers or attorneys or go with her to look for available apartments.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

MaiChi said:


> But she thinks he has been having it from someone else.


Just a guess: She is protecting her ego. It’s easier for her to believe he has done something wrong, than it is for her to own the fact she treated him like **** and crushed his soul (e.g. “annoyed him”).

If he’s getting sex elsewhere, then maybe he’d not be as resentful as he apparently is (unless perhaps he is disgusted with himself and transferred the blame to her).

I can say from experience it’s possible for a man to stick around at least two years without sex if he is concerned he is potentially at fault or has concerns about anyone’s mental health — and not be tempted in the least to have sex with someone else, a PA or even an EA. Some folks are just not wired that way. And some, get rejected and gaslighted about it often enough to where “rejection” becomes an automatic internal process. One eventually avoids expressing interest in intimacy, because getting rejected by the other hurts more than rejecting oneself. Chronic rejection destroys enough of ones spirit that the notion someone would ever want to share intimacy gets snuffed out.

I’d say it is her inability to see her failings here, and her willingness to accuse him (in her mind at least) of having cheated in the absence of any evidence or bad behavior, that makes clear she is unsuitable to be anyone’s partner. That lack of introspection and the lack of empathy for him and longterm lac of comprehension of or interest in his feelings is what make 3 years of sexlessness possible.

My guess is — and I am saying this from related experience — her only chance is to convince him she really gets it — that she really understands and owns what she did that hurt him and destroyed their marriage. She needs to process her defense mechanisms, if any, that are pointing the finger at him without visible bad behavior on his part.

Short of that, her marriage is doomed, whether or not they divorce.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She only wants to have sex with him because she’s scared he might be happy with another woman and leaving her. That doesn’t sound like much of a wife. She will undoubtedly go back to zero sex as soon as she is feeling secure he’s back in her web.


OP, your friend just isn’t wife material. She’s frigid. Worst thing to ever happen to a man is a having a wife that doesn’t have romantic interest in him. I hope he escapes.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> This is all silly.
> 
> You are neither a MC or divorce attorney so what real help are you able to give her.
> 
> If you want to provide some real-world assistance to her dilemma, you could offer some recommendations on movers or attorneys or go with her to look for available apartments.


This thread is par for the course. The OP has started 53 threads since joining and only references her own marriage in approximately 10 - no problems to be solved.

All of the threads are polling people for their opinions on topics. It's as if she's putting together a little cookbooklet for novice marriage counselors.

If people are genuinely concerned for a person in one of these 'stories', don't be. It is highly doubtful they are anything other than a plot device born out of the op's imagination.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

I think it is in E's best interests to divorce. Because, he know if he stays with S, where that road will take him. He's been there and it looks like it was hell for him.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

using sex as if she is living in 1789 and then talking about her sex life to her friends and then running home and demanding sex from a guy that has not had sex with 3 years now what does that sound like 
the woman is a nutter , 

not only is he right to get a divorce but she cheated him just as much as if she had it off with him best friend on the office desk,
if he was not asking her for a divorce he should be sent to the doctor and have his balls cut off 
this type of relationship blackmail and game playing is not called for


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## JoeStrom7890 (Sep 29, 2021)

MaiChi said:


> Bit of the story is.
> 
> Married 24 years
> Two children
> ...


I was in E's spot. I divorced, best decision of my life.

Backstory:

Wife and I met when we were in our early 20s, she wanted to wait until marriage to have sex (I had previous partners). She come's from a culture (Assyrian) where the goal for women is to get married and it doesn't really matter to who, just get married. I should have seen this as a red flag, but I was young and stupid. She acted as if we'd have sex quite frequently when we got married. Well, you can probably guess where this is going...the ole bait and switch (well, maybe without the bait). We had sex, MAYBE once every two weeks, and I had to almost beg for it. Whenever I'd try to get intimate I always heard "tomorrow, I'm too tired today." Tomorrow never really came.

I told her this was an issue, begged her to see a doctor or get some sort of counseling or something to fix this huge issue in our marriage. It wasn't just lack of sex, it was lack of affection and emotional intimacy. I did what I could - read books, offered to go to marriage counseling. Nothing worked or seemed to help. I stayed for way longer than I should have because we ended up having two kids. A lot of people told me that I should just leave, even with two kids, but it was more complicated than that. I wanted to ensure that when I left, I could at least make sure they could speak to someone to help them understand that it wasn't their fault and that both of us love them more than anything in the world. Time will tell if it helped but for now it seems it was the right strategy. We share custody and live only a few minutes apart.

I don't regret having my kids, but I do regret staying longer than a year. I missed out on so much because of her, not just sexually. I stopped going out with friends because she didn't want to. I stopped my hobbies because I was depressed about my marriage situation.

The happy part of my story is that I'm with someone new now. It's cliche but she is younger than me, but truth be told, I would have dated her if she was older than me. We started off as best friends and slowly morphed into a relationship. My ex was LIVID when she saw I was dating someone younger than her but at that point I no longer cared. I am much happier than I was while married and that's all that matters. 

E would be smart to follow-through with his divorce. There are plenty of women out there who would value him more than S does.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

@MaiChi, How's it going? How are "E" and "S" dealing with the issue now? 

I can understand E's reasoning, but What is S's reasoning behind thinking that they should not divorce?


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