# My story.....



## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

First of all, I apologize for the length of this post but I feel the need to get everything out and get some feedback. Wife and I have been married for 15 years. We were best friends since 9th grade. Started dating in college and got married. Have 2 incredible children. My job is very time consuming and I am passionate about it. I own my role in this that I became a disconnected, disengaged and absent friend, father and spouse. About a year ago, I noticed a work relationship with my wife becoming uncomfortable for me. She had been promoted into a position where it was basically her and another woman worked pretty closely reviewing stuff. I confronted her with my uncomfortability immediately - she was on her phone a lot texting and emailing which was very uncharacteristic, she spoke very highly of this other woman who is 15 year solders and separated from her husband, and she was distant emotionAlly. I will admit to not really fostering an atmosphere of healthy communication in our household and I have insecurities that border on burdensome. However, this continued and I finally confronted her. We agreed to go to therapy to try to fix our marriage. In therapy, I expressed my uneasiness about this woman who she had begun to hang out with outside of work by now. I was belittled by my wife for even suggesting that this should be an issue. We continued counseling for 2 months and she continued with her uncharacteristic behavior. Finally, I had enough. I broke down, and asked point blank. My wife told me she was attracted to this female, was having sexual fantasies about her, wasn't as attracted to me as she should be and that she could no longer answer if she was in love with me. I was completely devastated. For seven months we continued counseling. We have grown to know each other so much better, to be more receptive to the constructive communication and support that we need, and all was good. Or so I thought. I have continued to have a hard time accepting this emotional affair so I would ask regularly if those feelings were going away for her coworker. After about 3 months of counseling she finally said yes, they're gone. I was so relieved but made a huge error. I told her I was so happy to hear that but that if it happened again I would leave her. Hindsight being 20/20 I could not have been any less supportive or understanding. 
I agreed to support my wife in continuing her career and working with this individual. Additionally as far as i know this coworker has no idea how my wife feels or felt about her. I figured not doing so would breed resentment towards me and thought we could work it out. Fast forward to a few weeks ago. My grandfather passed away which was very traumatic for me. We get home from the funeral and there are flowers addressed to only my wife from this coworker with a note attached "thinking of you. Love, XXX". Seems that a more appropriate gesture would have been to send flowers to our whole family (who she has met) with a note more appropriate "sorry for,your loss". Needless to say emotions were high and we spoke for two hours. I couldn't get this feeling out of my gut so I asked her again if she still had feelings for this person. Finally she admitted that there were still feelings for this person, although "diminished" (after saying they were GONE for six months). In a crappy move I checked her email. In the deleted files were numerous correspondences that made me nauseous. There were messages of admiration, how much fun they had and signed off with "love you" or "xoxo". She continually denies a physical affair which I believe. She said she was scared to be truthful because I told her I would leave.
We continue therapy and we continue to increase the depth of our relationship with each other. We truly love each other, but I don't think it's possible to commit totally to our relationship while she is still working in an atmosphere that basically enables these feelings to be grown. I suspect that there is a reciprocation of these feelings from the coworker to my wife even if it's unspoken. I have respectfully asked that she cut off all communication with this person outside of work necessity and to my knowledge that has happened. 
How do I get over this? Should I insist on her leaving her job? Financially we cannot afford this. How can I ever be confident in myself and our relationship to know that she won't develop these feelings for another man or woman? And does her attraction to a woman mean she is gay? I realize women are different creatures and have emotional connections with each other that men sometimes can't replace. Is this all that was - a disconnect in our relationship that left her vulnerable to these feelings? 
Thanks for listening. Just need some advice. Therapy is working very well and we have re-established our love but this is still eating at me. We communicate well and she gives me all the answers I should need and her actions now support it, but after the deceit and dishonesty I find it hard to totally trust her. It is getting easier each day but still hesitant to give her my vulnerabilities fully again.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

Yeah, you handled this all wrong. But I suspect you know this. Hence the limbo and uncertainty. 

What's your question here?

edit: Alright, sorry I did read some question marks in there. 

Yes you need you wife to quit her job and have ZERO contact with her affair partner. 

Yes you need to EXPOSE THIS AFFAIR TO EVERYONE. Friends, family, HR dept, everyone. 

Then, and this is only if you really have the will. 

File for Divorce. 

Some might disagree with the last part. But I think it's the only way to get true remorse and shell shock wondering spouse out of fog and slvt behavior. 

Your wife is probably bisexual. Although women are sexual fluid creatures, so it doesn't natural mean that she is "this" or "that". 

If it's indeed just an Emotional Affair. And again, I hate to be the barer of bad news, but I think it's probably physical. My wife had the whole "Emotional Affair" Thing for about 2 months. Then the last 3 weeks it was physical. For many wondering spouses the EMOTIONAL affair is the pre-amp of the physical part. 

My wife, like yours said I was- "emotionally vacant" "cold" "mean" "controlling" a, and this one is just recently, "serial flirt", lulz. 

Are you in a very competitive career field or a kinda "adrenaline junkie" type of job?


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

TheFlood117 said:


> Yeah, you handled this all wrong. But I suspect you know this. Hence the limbo and uncertainty.
> 
> What's your question here?


Where do i go from here? What steps to take that this doesnt happen again? Can this work?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> Where do i go from here? What steps to take that this doesnt happen again? Can this work?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



See my first post, I was to quick to respond and edited it. 

But, "Where do I go from here". 

Like good ole' Winston said, If your going through hell, keep going. 

You need to go forward. With or without you wife. But read my edited first post about what you should do down to a T.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

TheFlood117 said:


> See my first post, I was to quick to respond and edited it.
> 
> But, "Where do I go from here".
> 
> ...


 Definitely going through hell but honestly finding things out about myself and each other that may not have been possible if this hadnt happened. Regardless o what happens to us i/we will be better off having gone through this.

I cannot bring myself to file for divorce.....yet.

I am in a very competitive field that has adrenaline junkie all over it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> Definitely going through hell but honestly finding things out about myself and each other that may not have been possible if this hadnt happened. Regardless o what happens to us i/we will be better off having gone through this.
> 
> I cannot bring myself to file for divorce.....yet.
> 
> ...


Take your time. It is a process for some. Just keep getting better. 

But.... You need to expose the affair and your wife needs to leave that job. 

This is really the LEAST she can do for any possible real reconciliation.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

She is ready to leave when there is an option to do so. Our financial situation does not allow us to have one income. Currently exploring options to transfer or move departments rather than leave the career altogether but will see what happens. It has been exposed as much as it needs to be in my opinion. I really don't believe in embarrassing her or belittling her with having to tell everyone. Those closest to us know and are aware and offering support where they can.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> She is ready to leave when there is an option to do so. Our financial situation does not allow us to have one income. Currently exploring options to transfer or move departments rather than leave the career altogether but will see what happens. It has been exposed as much as it needs to be in my opinion. I really don't believe in embarrassing her or belittling her with having to tell everyone. Those closest to us know and are aware and offering support where they can.


So many threads on tam where the bs regrets NOT exposing sooner, or more...imo you need to expose to everyone...she needs to be dragged kicking and screaming OUT of her little fantasy and back to reality...this wont happen if she has support from people who DONT know the truth...sounds like she is a conquest...some gay women enjoy turning straight married women, its a game...

Read more threads and you will see a few prevailing tidbits of advice...exposing to everyone is one of them...


or you can keep doing what your doing, its worked so far, right?? (sarcasm alert)


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

You need to seriously look at doing the 180. Your wife has lied to you. I would say with almost 100% certainty that your wife had sex with this woman and had sex with her on multiple occasions. Your wife is very good at trickle truth and lying. 

You need to stop pleading, begging, etc. This only makes you look like a weak kneed weeny/ A wuss. I speak from experience. Many of us when we go through this go to the pleading, begging, crying, etc stage. We say "Man up". Get a back bone, etc. Some will say you are acting beta and you need to become the alpha. You do need to man up.

Get the book "More than just friends".

I will say this again and I am a professional counselor and can see things here, and there will be others here on TAM who will chime in, your wife is and has had sex with this woman, I am 100% sure of that.

If you really listen to your wife, I mean really listen, she has told you much more then you have realized. When you listen you have to hear the exact words she is saying, body language, etc. She has told you in spades what is going on with this woman. I have listened to you, just by the words you have written and it is all very clear to me.

You have been suckered punched and kicked in the gut. You can't think straight. Your wife is a lying cheating wife. She will lie to you and to your counselor without remorse. She is in a fog a fantsy world of new delights. Her world with this woman is charming, enlightening, exciting.

If you want to have any hope of killing it expose it. Don't tell your wife.

Gather more evidence. Get a VAR put it in her car. I know money might be tight but get a key logger on your computer.

Stop confronting her. She is lying and will continue to lie about all of this.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

As far as exposing it at her work place is one I say do with caution if you need the income. Doing exposure typically kills affairs or that is the intended purpose in most cases. As far as belittling your wife, look at what she has done to you. You will never ever nice her back to you. Read No more Mr. Nice Guy.

It is a rare case that a man or woman ever niced their cheating spouse back into a relationship with them.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I'll agree you made mistakes in handling this. But don't beat yourself up. Almost all BS's do and you can correct most of them.

Thorburn is right. The chances your wife hasn't had sex with this woman are very small. As much as you don't want to believe it, you should assume she has. Thus, she is likely still lying to you. That's not what a remorseful spouse does.

It's fine that she's looking at changing jobs, but contact has to completely end. Period. Sometimes BS's have to make a decision; what's more important - the marriage or the job. At the very least you should give her a short term deadline for this.

Keep something in mind. She has/is cheating on you. She's still lying, still has contact opportunity. At this point, you have to be willing to end your marriage to have a chance to save it. She must receive and accept consequences - exposure, job change, transparency, accountability for her time; and she must demonstrate true remorse and admit to the truth. You can't accept anything short of that.

Put a VAR in her car. Make yourself an expert on covert surveillance. Keylogger on her computer, spyware on her cell, checking her cell phone records - all this is in your arsenal.Try this for several weeks to see if she is still having a PA. The EA is ongoing, you can rest assured.

The bottom line is that you *can't* go forward with R, while contact is still a possibility. Give her that deadline and if she doesn't meet it or balks at it; start the 180 to detach from her and go see an attorney to start the divorce process. If/when she ends all contact; check back here for more advice on judging her remorse. 

Sorry you're here.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

badmemory said:


> I'll agree you made mistakes in handling this. But don't beat yourself up. Almost all BS's do and you can correct most of them.
> 
> Thorburn is right. The chances your wife hasn't had sex with this woman are very small. As much as you don't want to believe it, you should assume she has. Thus, she is likely still lying to you. That's not what a remorseful spouse does.
> 
> ...


First of all, thank you to everyone who has responded. There are circumstances here that have been left out for time, for respect and for general unwillingness of me to share deeply personal things on a forum. I am confident that this has not progressed to a physical affair. 100% confident. I may be naive but i dont accept that it ever went that far. Not be ause i CANT accept that it is a possibility but because i truly dont believe it.

That said, as far as surveillance and VAR's and such i will not do that. If i have that much mistrust and doubt in my relationship i will file for divorce immediately. It isnt something i want to consider for a host of reasons but mostly because if i cant trust her after this and there are any more transgressions then we are over. I will walk away knowing i did everything i could. 

I have given a deadline of 2 months to find a new job. She is in a very specialized with good pay and no other opportunity in the same field locally. That is why i am treading lightly in this. I realize it swems spineless and naive but i do appreciate all tge input and advice
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

She has not shown she can be trusted. Being on watch will allow you to know of any discretion.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Confused-husband said:


> That said, as far as surveillance and VAR's and such i will not do that. If i have that much mistrust and doubt in my relationship i will file for divorce immediately. It isnt something i want to consider for a host of reasons but mostly because *if i cant trust her after this and there are any more transgressions then we are over. * I will walk away knowing i did everything i could.



You really dont know if there are more transgressions unless you monitor. Your wife will, without a doubt, get better at hiding and taking her involvement with the other woman deeper underground.

From what you wrote, I feel you prefer to rug-sweep the issue than to have full knowledge.

You cant do everything you could without knowing everything.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The answer to the one question you asked regarding whether emotional disconnect led to her being vulnerable is yes. If you aren't available emotionally it's only a matter of time before she finds someone that is, because we need this connection. As we do have close women friendships she may not have initially realized where the line was crossed. The thing is you can confront all you want but if you aren't available yourself it's not going to matter; blow this one up and she'll find another one. Either file for divorce or get therapy to learn how to meet your wife's emotional needs, which you should do even if you leave her because you'll just be unavailable for the next woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Confused-husband said:


> I am confident that this has not progressed to a physical affair. 100% confident. I may be naive but i dont accept that it ever went that far.
> 
> *Unless you've left out some details that would prove there wasn't a PA; you're not just naive, you're in denial.*
> 
> ...


You're not the first BS to ignore advice from people who have been where you're at, and you won't be the last. I would suggest that you spend time reading threads here from other BS's who did the same and how their marriage turned out. There's plenty of examples.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> I really don't believe in embarrassing her or belittling her with having to tell everyone. Those closest to us know and are aware and offering support where they can.


 What you may not understand is you don't want to belittle or embarrass her but so far she's done a good job of doing it to you. 

Seriously. How much fun could it be to know that your wife is in a EA or possibly a PA with another woman and lies about it saying it's over to only find out that it's still going on.
Where does that put you? How do you compete with another woman? Your comparing apples with oranges in a situation like this. 

It's not like a regular affair where in some examples a man goes after the other guy and has a confrontation and throws a few punches or even gets in his face. You can't do that to a woman and get away with it.

If she's going to continue to lie, then IMO file for divorce and let her go and if it falls apart with the other woman then your wife will have to learn a hard lesson on life and realize that her little fling to satisfy her fantasy wasn't worth it. 

So many times I've read on this forum of how women having affairs with other women think that just because it's a same sex affair, it doesn't count. An affair is an affair and no matter how you slice it, adding a third person to a marriage is not a marriage. 

She's embarrassed you, humiliated you and disrespected the marriage you share with her. Only you can do something about it.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> . *If i have that much mistrust and doubt in my relationship i will file for divorce immediately*. [/i][/size]


Time to file, sad to say.
What exactly did you hope to accomplish coming here??
Were u looking for advice or just needed to tell your story?


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## Differentguy (Oct 3, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> That said, as far as surveillance and VAR's and such i will not do that. *While I appreciate your unwillingness to "violate" your wife's privacy, I am not sure I really understand it.* If i have that much mistrust and doubt in my relationship i will file for divorce immediately. *Exactly how much trust and confidence do you currently have in your marriage?*It isnt something i want to consider for a host of reasons but mostly because if i cant trust her after this and there are any more transgressions then we are over. *You can't trust her. She has lied and manipulated you. The longer you allow this affair to continue, the more opportunity for their relationship to blossom. *I will walk away knowing i did everything i could.*Right now, you can end this. You can find out exactly what your wife is up to. Your marriage is in danger. What is more important? Your wife's privacy or your marriage. Also, do not forget your mental health. How long are you willing to live with this uncertainty? Good luck and I'm sorry you are going through this.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Hi C-H

As everybody here has already told you, you handled the affair the worst possible way, which is giving your WW the opportunity to take underground the affair.

now, they being aware that you know about their relationship, but also knowing that you believe is over they just have to take other messures to make sure you never find again.

they have the opportunity to meet daily, so finding a way for them wil not be an issue, you have to stand your ground.

now this:



Confused-husband said:


> That said, as far as surveillance and VAR's and such i will not do that. If i have that much mistrust and doubt in my relationship i will file for divorce immediately. It isnt something i want to consider for a host of reasons but mostly because if i cant trust her after this and there are any more transgressions then we are over. I will walk away knowing i did everything i could.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


is wishful thinking.

sorry for being rude, but you know how many BS like you say this in this forum and end doing the opposite? (which is not neccesary wrong).

you have to understand that affairs make the brain release chemicals that make the WW junkies and as long as there are no consequences they will keep looking their fix which in this cases is the affair partner.

you can't trust her words because she is not herself right now, you have to engrave that in your mind, if she keep meeting her affair artner this will not change.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

Confused-husband said:


> --------Snip---------
> I realize it swems *spineless and naive* but i do appreciate all tge input and advice
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not at all spineless, but totally naive.

We've all wanted to end these affairs painlessly, and go back to being "happy."

Most of us have found out that wish to be a pipedream.

Educate yourself about the affair business. You have a lot to learn and a lot at stake.

Start the process of managing this affair by losing your "niceness" and become a swine. You may not like yourself when you're done.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

You're getting good advice generally, so I won't add to it other than to address the concern you have about your wife maybe being gay. Women tend to be sexually fluid, whereas men are almost always either straight or gay, not much gray area there. So don't worry so much about the same-sex aspect of her affair. Treat it like a normal affair.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I dont know if Iv'e read this but I'll just post this just in case:

I really don't think she loves you. She tried to tell you but you don't seem to be believing her. If a woman can't tell you she loves you, than she doesn't love you.

It's very simple. Men have a way of mucking up the L word. Women do not. She doesn't love you.

So what are you going to do about that? The choice is yours. You can live in a loveless marriage, lots of people do. But it will be unbearable pain until she does cheat physically or leaves you.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

Again, I DO appreciate everyone's suggestions. I am definitely willing to walk away from the marriage, but am doing all I can with what I believe is right before I do so.

The question was posed what I wanted to get out of posting here. Quite simple, I just feel better getting it down on paper and getting real world scenarios of people who have gone through the same thing. There isn't a cookbook answer to these things and as simple as it sounds to follow through with theses scenarios there are always other ways. I may not be successful but I will try.

I do not believe for one second that she doesn't love me, but I do feel as though there have been situations where her love has been questioned by herself and by me. That is natural I think.

As far as other stuff, it is non-negotiable. She is leaving her job. That has been decided. It just has to come in a progression and calculated. It might take a week or a month or longer. We continue weekly therapy together and individual therapy weekly as well. We are investing in ourselves and each other. Could this be going on still? Sure it could - I am not THAT naïve. I certainly do not want to perpetuate or enable these feelings by supporting her working in this environment and when we can feasibly get out of it we will. And I say we because its a joint decision - she has supported this as well. If she didn't I was going to leave. And if I didn't FEEL like she was genuine in this I would leave.

The fact is that we have been best friends since 9th grade and together for 20 years (15 years of marriage). This quite honestly was the FIRST time that anything to this magnitude has come up. I think we all naturally question ourselves as we age, as life changes, as we have kids, etc...............

I am invested more in MYSELF than ever before. I would have no problem walking away for my own good if I thought this was irrepairable. In my heart, I don't believe that. Again, many will call me naïve or sabotaging the relationship. The simple answer is that we, along with our therapists, will decide where to go from here and what is best for us individually and collectively. I like the feedback here because it gives a different perspective and things to talk about and think about. So THANK YOU ALL for everything and although I may not agree totally, I do appreciate the responses and advice.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> First of all, I apologize for the length of this post but I feel the need to get everything out and get some feedback. Wife and I have been married for 15 years. We were best friends since 9th grade. Started dating in college and got married. Have 2 incredible children. My job is very time consuming and I am passionate about it. I own my role in this that I became a disconnected, disengaged and absent friend, father and spouse. About a year ago, I noticed a work relationship with my wife becoming uncomfortable for me. She had been promoted into a position where it was basically her and another woman worked pretty closely reviewing stuff. I confronted her with my uncomfortability immediately - she was on her phone a lot texting and emailing which was very uncharacteristic, she spoke very highly of this other woman who is 15 year solders and separated from her husband, and she was distant emotionAlly. I will admit to not really fostering an atmosphere of healthy communication in our household and I have insecurities that border on burdensome. However, this continued and I finally confronted her. We agreed to go to therapy to try to fix our marriage. In therapy, I expressed my uneasiness about this woman who she had begun to hang out with outside of work by now. I was belittled by my wife for even suggesting that this should be an issue. We continued counseling for 2 months and she continued with her uncharacteristic behavior. Finally, I had enough. I broke down, and asked point blank. My wife told me she was attracted to this female, was having sexual fantasies about her, wasn't as attracted to me as she should be and that she could no longer answer if she was in love with me. I was completely devastated. For seven months we continued counseling. We have grown to know each other so much better, to be more receptive to the constructive communication and support that we need, and all was good. Or so I thought. I have continued to have a hard time accepting this emotional affair so I would ask regularly if those feelings were going away for her coworker. After about 3 months of counseling she finally said yes, they're gone. I was so relieved but made a huge error. I told her I was so happy to hear that but that if it happened again I would leave her. Hindsight being 20/20 I could not have been any less supportive or understanding.
> I agreed to support my wife in continuing her career and working with this individual. Additionally as far as i know this coworker has no idea how my wife feels or felt about her. I figured not doing so would breed resentment towards me and thought we could work it out. Fast forward to a few weeks ago. My grandfather passed away which was very traumatic for me. We get home from the funeral and there are flowers addressed to only my wife from this coworker with a note attached "thinking of you. Love, XXX". Seems that a more appropriate gesture would have been to send flowers to our whole family (who she has met) with a note more appropriate "sorry for,your loss". Needless to say emotions were high and we spoke for two hours. I couldn't get this feeling out of my gut so I asked her again if she still had feelings for this person. Finally she admitted that there were still feelings for this person, although "diminished" (after saying they were GONE for six months). In a crappy move I checked her email. In the deleted files were numerous correspondences that made me nauseous. There were messages of admiration, how much fun they had and signed off with "love you" or "xoxo". She continually denies a physical affair which I believe. She said she was scared to be truthful because I told her I would leave.
> We continue therapy and we continue to increase the depth of our relationship with each other. We truly love each other, but I don't think it's possible to commit totally to our relationship while she is still working in an atmosphere that basically enables these feelings to be grown. I suspect that there is a reciprocation of these feelings from the coworker to my wife even if it's unspoken. I have respectfully asked that she cut off all communication with this person outside of work necessity and to my knowledge that has *happened.
> How do I get over this? Should I insist on her leaving her job? Financially we cannot afford this. How can I ever be confident in myself and our relationship to know that she won't develop these feelings for another man or woman? * And does her attraction to a woman mean she is gay? I realize women are different creatures and have emotional connections with each other that men sometimes can't replace. Is this all that was - a disconnect in our relationship that left her vulnerable to these feelings?
> Thanks for listening. Just need some advice. Therapy is working very well and we have re-established our love but this is still eating at me. We communicate well and she gives me all the answers I should need and her actions now support it, but after the deceit and dishonesty I find it hard to totally trust her. It is getting easier each day but still hesitant to give her my vulnerabilities fully again.


The question is do you believe a person can "love" two people?
Is the love she has for you the type which is all encompassing love but no passion or fire? Is the love she has for this person the kind which gets a person excited, stirs their soul?

Personally I don't believe a person can love two people, so using that caveat, at some point she must have detached so she could truly allow these feelings to grow and be comfortable enough to express them.

What she has with you is the family security, house, social lives.
What she has with the other person is a fire so strong she was willing to deceive you and even threaten the secure life you and her have built over the years.

The only way this ever gets sorted is to find out what exactly was missing from her life for her to go down this path, you skip over this point and you'll be forever looking over your shoulder wondering when the next time she's going to step out is.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> The question is do you believe a person can "love" two people?
> Is the love she has for you the type which is all encompassing love but no passion or fire? Is the love she has for this person the kind which gets a person excited, stirs their soul?
> 
> Personally I don't believe a person can love two people, so using that caveat, at some point she must have detached so she could truly allow these feelings to grow and be comfortable enough to express them.
> ...


And this pretty much encompasses exactly how I feel. I disagree with anyone who says that they can love two people at once and then especially don't believe if that's the case that the person be totally committed to one or the other. 

The purpose of counseling is for us to explore what I wasn't giving, what she needed and why these feelings manifested the way they did. And it goes much deeper than that obviously. I contributed in some way to this happening. we are now trying to find out if we are compatible, if we can truly make EACH OTHER AND OURSELVES happy in this relationship and how we can accomplish this. Our communication, compassion and honesty has definitely increased and we are connected in a way that I can hardly remember being.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

Until you file for divorce and serve her then 180 it hard, you have no chance. 

ZERO.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

TheFlood117 said:


> Until you file for divorce and serve her then 180 it hard, you have no chance.
> 
> ZERO.


Trying to navigate that grey area lately, I gotta believe that there is another way. When I file, it will be because I am walking away, not a threat to get her attention. Trust me, I have her attention and she now has mine too. Which is probably where this all started to go wrong before was neglecting that aspect of our relationship and it snowballed from there.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> Trying to navigate that grey area lately, I gotta believe that there is another way. When I file, it will be because I am walking away, not a threat to get her attention. Trust me, I have her attention and she now has mine too. Which is probably where this all started to go wrong before was neglecting that aspect of our relationship and it snowballed from there.


You say your in a competitive field right? So where is that competitiveness here? Where is that killer attitude, the high risk high reward type of mindset? Where is your drive and decisiveness? 

You cannot nice your way out of her affair. 

Navigate that Grey area? 

It's black and white bro, always is. Blow up the affair and her nice and comfy lifestyle. Rock her world.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

Very competitive field and my attitude isn't to nice my way out of this. It is to finally listen, hear, process and constructively deal with this in ways that are beneficial to me as well. I was a controlling, jealous, manipulative prick. That isn't me being hard on myself; its the truth. You have no idea how much I want to be that guy so the competitveness in me right now is with myself to temper that and to find out what I really want as well. It may come out of all this that I want out and I don't see us together. Who knows? There is a lot of confusion for sure but also an excitedness in discovering myself and tapping into places I have never thought. It was blown up - to me, her, therapists, families and some close friends. No need for it to go any further.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

On her terms right? 

I'll let you think about that one for a bit. 

Good luck. I didn't say this before, but I'm really sorry this has happened to you. It's devastating, it really is. I wish you the best. Good luck in your recovery and marriage.


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## 1812overture (Nov 25, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> The purpose of counseling is for us to explore what I wasn't giving, what she needed and why these feelings manifested the way they did. And it goes much deeper than that obviously. I contributed in some way to this happening.


If you go find another woman to sleep with, (or, given what you believe, to spend time with and to pour your heart out to) is your wife contributing to that? Or would that be a decision you made, all on your own?

Is there room in your version of things that your wife was also a prick? But you didn't betray her trust in you, despite that fact? Does she have to own anything?


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

TheFlood117 said:


> On her terms right?
> 
> I'll let you think about that one for a bit.
> 
> Good luck. I didn't say this before, but I'm really sorry this has happened to you. It's devastating, it really is. I wish you the best. Good luck in your recovery and marriage.


Actually, the "revelation" occurred on my terms. It was my way of having her take ownership of her role in this and to let everyone close to us know that she had blame in this as well. Maybe twisted but was true and remains true to this day for me. I was sick of hearing "you work all the time" and things of that nature. I didn't want that to be an out for anyone. Her culpability needed to be owned in this and I accept my role in being someone who perpetuated silence and non-support.

And I appreciate the words; it means a lot that there are people out there who have experienced devastation like this and made it through better for it in the end - either with their spouse or without.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

1812overture said:


> If you go find another woman to sleep with, (or, given what you believe, to spend time with and to pour your heart out to) is your wife contributing to that? Or would that be a decision you made, all on your own?
> 
> Is there room in your version of things that your wife was also a prick? But you didn't betray her trust in you, despite that fact? Does she have to own anything?


To answer your questions, yes in some way I would be searching foe something that I wasn't getting out of my spouse. Right or wrong, that's the way I see it. The DECISION to do it would be mine but the motive to do so could be contributed to by the spouse. 

Yes she was a complete ******* for doing what she did. But to harbor that now seems counterproductive. To accept that it happened, to move on and fix what we can individually and collectively is the way I choose to proceed. If we are together and happy at the end of it, great!!!! If not and at the end of the journey there are still questions regarding these issues, I will GLADLY walk away and be better for it. 

Looking back with hindsight being 20/20 I was searching for things outwardly that I wasn't getting out of our relationship. Probably drinking too much, staying at work too long, etc that was a byproduct of our disconnect. And followed through certainly in some unhealthy ways. Again, this is a fact - not me beating myself up. I think men are wired differently as well. We would NEVER consider the same sex attractive in that way but women can and do. However, as twisted as it sounds it almost would have been easier for me to hear that she had a one night stand with a man instead of harbored those feelings for a female for this long. I don't mean to disrespect anyone that that scenario has happened to by saying that. Just working through the process now of moving on and getting what I need too (I am not neglecting myself in this process I can assure).


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> The simple answer is that we, along with our therapists, will decide where to go from here and what is best for us individually and collectively.


 What would you do if the therapist said " Well she had her fling so just get over it and move on." 

Better yet, you think that therapist can read her mind? She can tell him anything she wants in a way that sound believable and still have this other woman in her mind and heart. He can only make suggestions and it's all fine and dandy if you both follow the suggestions but IMO, I think your putting too much faith in this guy and in your wife. I think she's going to do what she wants and in the long run unless you make a stronger stand. Just my opinion. Your too "matter in fact" about this. That isn't going to get you anywhere.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

6301 said:


> What would you do if the therapist said " Well she had her fling so just get over it and move on."
> 
> Better yet, you think that therapist can read her mind? She can tell him anything she wants in a way that sound believable and still have this other woman in her mind and heart. He can only make suggestions and it's all fine and dandy if you both follow the suggestions but IMO, I think your putting too much faith in this guy and in your wife. I think she's going to do what she wants and in the long run unless you make a stronger stand. Just my opinion. Your too "matter in fact" about this. That isn't going to get you anywhere.


You're wasting your time. OP isn't here for advice, he's here to journal his efforts to restore his marriage. Efforts which the collective experience of this board show will not work, leading slowly but inevitably to divorce, prolonging the pain of everyone involved and delaying his eventual happiness with his next wife.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

i was going to chime in and give you advice on how to save your marriage but you seem determined to destroy it. if i had a dollar for every BS that came on here with a plan like yours and it FAIL so miserably i would make bill gates look like a homeless person.

good luck you will need it.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

Again, I just want to reiterate that I very much appreciate all comments. While I may be going the wrong way in dealing with this, I do feel as though I have a plan that works for me. While it may not mesh with what others have done or seen successful and in fact may fail, I am processing all information as I get it daily and trying to manage the best way I know how.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> Again, I just want to reiterate that I very much appreciate all comments. While I may be going the wrong way in dealing with this, I do feel as though I have a plan that works for me. While it may not mesh with what others have done or seen successful and in fact may fail, I am processing all information as I get it daily and trying to manage the best way I know how.


When it all goes down the tubes, as it inevitably will, remember that you were told here that it would. Not as an I-told-you-so kind of thing but rather remembering that posters here predicted it. Remember it because there are posters here that walked the same path you're walking, failed in the same way you'll fail, and can give you good advice on how to proceed from there when you're ready for it.

People here can help you and want to help you. Some may get frustrated watching you make the same mistakes they made and ignoring their advice, but they'll all still chip in with how to pick up the pieces after the crash.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Confused-husband:

I can only reiterate what others here have said. I think you have two problems. One is that you think that your job skills will help you here. I'm not so sure of that. You are not in the realm of logic or profit. You are in the realm of emotion and that is a very strong illogical thing.

You know where you blew it. I'll quote from one of your posts:


> I was a controlling, jealous, manipulative prick. That isn't me being hard on myself; its the truth.


How much of that do you think it takes to ruin your wife's emotional feeling for you. She KNEW you were being a controlling, jealous, manipulative prick. Do you think she loved you for it?

Thorburn wrote that as a person experienced in this field, your wife told you EXACTLY what was going on. It even comes through in your own words:



> Finally, I had enough. I broke down, and asked point blank. My wife told me she was attracted to this female, was having sexual fantasies about her, wasn't as attracted to me as she should be and that she could no longer answer if she was in love with me


She no longer loves you. She may like you well enough. And you've spent enough time together that she feels friendly to her. But she's having fantasies and has grown close to the other woman. There's no doubt about it. You've said so yourself.

She's not confiding in you. She's probably telling you little about her experiences on the job. But you know she's hanging out (or she was) with the other woman.

What do you conclude from this?

Subconsciously you know all this.

What to do about it? For starters try to change the more ugly parts of your personality. (Yes, I could have phrased that more pleasantly, but we both know it is true.) This will be of help to you further down the line.

The next thing is to use her reluctance to file for a divorce (she must be reluctant, she's not already filed, right) to influence her to moving away from the other woman. However, if they have a strong bond, nothing will change. They'll still see each other often enough. Your wife is used to having a distant partner, right?

So if your "being nice" doesn't work soon, and I don't think it will, your next choice is going nuclear. File for divorce. That's all in in poker. You bet it all on one play.

Whatever happens, don't let this drag out for years. We read about such folks here. It isn't pleasant.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> When it all goes down the tubes, as it inevitably will, remember that you were told here that it would. Not as an I-told-you-so kind of thing but rather remembering that posters here predicted it. Remember it because there are posters here that walked the same path you're walking, failed in the same way you'll fail, and can give you good advice on how to proceed from there when you're ready for it.
> 
> People here can help you and want to help you. Some may get frustrated watching you make the same mistakes they made and ignoring their advice, but they'll all still chip in with how to pick up the pieces after the crash.


I agree...but its NOT a prediction...the writing is on the wall and obvious to those who have lived it...no magic or predictions necessary...


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> And this pretty much encompasses exactly how I feel. I disagree with anyone who says that they can love two people at once and then especially don't believe if that's the case that the person be totally committed to one or the other.
> 
> The purpose of counseling is for us to explore what I wasn't giving, what she needed and why these feelings manifested the way they did. And it goes much deeper than that obviously. I contributed in some way to this happening. we are now trying to find out if we are compatible, if we can truly make EACH OTHER AND OURSELVES happy in this relationship and how we can accomplish this. Our communication, compassion and honesty has definitely increased and we are connected in a way that I can hardly remember being.


hopefully this time she is not lying during therapy. Doubt it.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I am taking the liberty of editing your story by deleting some text.

My story..... 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. *Wife and I have been married for 15 years. We were best friends since 9th grade. Started dating in college and got married. Have 2 incredible children.*

2. *My job is very time consuming and I am passionate about it. I own my role in this that I became a disconnected, disengaged and absent friend, father and spouse.*

3. * About a year ago, I noticed a work relationship with my wife becoming uncomfortable for me. She had been promoted into a position where it was basically her and another woman worked pretty closely reviewing stuff. I confronted her with my uncomfortability immediately - she was on her phone a lot texting and emailing which was very uncharacteristic, she spoke very highly of this other woman who is 15 year solders and separated from her husband, and she was distant emotionAlly.*

4. *I finally confronted her. We agreed to go to therapy to try to fix our marriage*. 

5. *In therapy, I expressed my uneasiness about this woman who she had begun to hang out with outside of work by now.*

6. *I was belittled by my wife for even suggesting that this should be an issue. We continued counseling for 2 months and she continued with her uncharacteristic behavior.*

7. * My wife told me she was attracted to this female, was having sexual fantasies about her, wasn't as attracted to me as she should be and that she could no longer answer if she was in love with me.* 

8. *For seven months we continued counseling. We have grown to know each other so much better, to be more receptive to the constructive communication and support that we need, and all was good.* 



9. *Or so I thought.* .


10. *I was so relieved but made a huge error. I told her I was so happy to hear that but that if it happened again I would leave her. Hindsight being 20/20 I could not have been any less supportive or understanding. *

11. *I agreed to support my wife in continuing her career and working with this individual. Additionally as far as i know this coworker has no idea how my wife feels or felt about her. I figured not doing so would breed resentment towards me and thought we could work it out. Fast forward to a few weeks ago. Needless to say emotions were high and we spoke for two hours. I couldn't get this feeling out of my gut so I asked her again if she still had feelings for this person. Finally she admitted that there were still feelings for this person, although "diminished" (after saying they were GONE for six months).* 

12. * In a crappy move I checked her email. In the deleted files were numerous correspondences that made me nauseous. There were messages of admiration, how much fun they had and signed off with "love you" or "xoxo".* 

13. *She continually denies a physical affair which I believe. She said she was scared to be truthful because I told her I would leave.*


14. *We continue therapy and we continue to increase the depth of our relationship with each other.* *We truly love each other, but I don't think it's possible to commit totally to our relationship while she is still working in an atmosphere that basically enables these feelings to be grown. I suspect that there is a reciprocation of these feelings from the coworker to my wife even if it's unspoken.* 

15. *I have respectfully asked that she cut off all communication with this person outside of work necessity and to my knowledge that has happened.* 
* It is getting easier each day but still hesitant to give her my vulnerabilities fully again. *


16. * Therapy is working very well and we have re-established our love but this is still eating at me. We communicate well and she gives me all the answers I should need and her actions now support it, but after the deceit and dishonesty I find it hard to totally trust her. *

*Or so I thought.* .


My questions:

1. Are you really 100% sure that there was no sex? What proof do you have? If this is based upon your wife's word and your wife's word alone is this trustworthy? A woman who has told you that she has had sexual fantasies, works with the woman who she fantasies about, then hangs out with the very woman who she has sexual feelings. Do you have any clue what the two them talked about? This woman is not with her husband. You stated that you believe this woman has similar feelings. The emails between the two of them made you nauseated. What was it in those emails that made you feel so sick? I will say this again, your wife had sex with this woman. There have been intense feelings of lust, a lot of time to express those feelings to this woman (I mean a lot of time), emails, texts, long work hours together, hanging out together after work, and I do believe if you are not naive then you are not reviewing what you have narrarated. 

2. Did your wife, in all your conversations, who the liar's phases? Look how to detect a liar online. You will find words like, "never", etc. My wife when she was lying used "never" quite a bit. Now that she has come clean she will say "no" I didn't do that or yes I did".. I learned quite a bit about lying. Not 100%, but man, I learned a lot.

3. And why lie at all if there is nothing? Look at the lies your wife told you. Is it legitimate to say I lied because you told me you would leave me? She lied prior to this and I would surmise she is still lying. I would say she is still hiding things. Why? Who knows, embarrassment or hiding the relationship, are two. Might be more.

4. And is therapy really helping? I hear what you have said about therapy, but if your wife is still in fantasy world and is still lying, what is it about therapy that is really helping?

I am not convinced.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

It sounds to me like you have a "counselor" that doesn't have experience with infidelity; doesn't have a clue as to what the BS is dealing with; and you and your wife are in lock step with following the MC's suggestions. 

I would imagine your wife is thrilled to use this type of approach. You see, she get's to rug sweep the A, and at the same time, gets you to admit you had a role in it. Then to top it off, she gets you to work on "your" issues and gets a new and improved husband. Pretty sweet deal for someone who just cheated on her husband. I bet she wouldn't change a thing if she could do it all over again.

I had a counselor like that as well. She wanted me to work on my issues that "caused" the infidelity. I fired her and you should fire yours as well.

A counselor experienced with infidelity would understand that before the marriage issues can be worked on, the BS must have time to process the A. She wouldn't suggest that your actions led to the affair; she would agree that the WS deserves reasonable consequences and she would hold the WS accountable.

At some point down the road, I think you're going to have regrets for your wife's lack of consequences.


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## Confused-husband (Dec 13, 2013)

Some good thoughts and discussion today. I have asked my wife to submit to a lie detector test regarding the possibility of having a physical affair and the other issues that we are dealing with. I have also told her that she needs to confront the woman at work, tell her the behavior is and has been unacceptable and that there would be no more contact other than work related issues until we Can figure out her job situation. If there is any more contact I will move out. If there is any deceit on the polygraph, I am gone. I do not wish to waste my time or hers - we are all in this together 100% or not at all. I am going to be researching places to get the polygraph and questions that I would like answered - not sure if this is even possible or what the cost would be but well worth it. The emails were relatively benign; basically more about how funny a joke was, how much fun she had on a hike with her, stuff at work - it was more the fact that she could use the XOXO sign off and have this person use "love you" when those outward expressions of affection have always been hard for my wife. It isn't the norm for her to communicate like this. The counselor we are seeing has been very supportive and outspoken of me throughout this process. I may not be articulating too well and it is hard to get all the details out on paper and conveyed through a post, but I assure you she is on my side in this. I say this will be better in the end no matter what because I like the changes I have made in myself over the last nine months - I have come to learn more about myself, what I need and want and what I want others to know of me throughout this process. Whatever happens, I am better off for it. I appreciate all the "tough love" and advice. It's been a long road but one that has made me stronger.


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## jnichk76 (Nov 4, 2013)

Confused-husband said:


> Some good thoughts and discussion today. I have asked my wife to submit to a lie detector test regarding the possibility of having a physical affair and the other issues that we are dealing with. I have also told her that she needs to confront the woman at work, tell her the behavior is and has been unacceptable and that there would be no more contact other than work related issues until we Can figure out her job situation. If there is any more contact I will move out. If there is any deceit on the polygraph, I am gone. I do not wish to waste my time or hers - we are all in this together 100% or not at all. I am going to be researching places to get the polygraph and questions that I would like answered - not sure if this is even possible or what the cost would be but well worth it. The emails were relatively benign; basically more about how funny a joke was, how much fun she had on a hike with her, stuff at work - it was more the fact that she could use the XOXO sign off and have this person use "love you" when those outward expressions of affection have always been hard for my wife. It isn't the norm for her to communicate like this. The counselor we are seeing has been very supportive and outspoken of me throughout this process. I may not be articulating too well and it is hard to get all the details out on paper and conveyed through a post, but I assure you she is on my side in this. I say this will be better in the end no matter what because I like the changes I have made in myself over the last nine months - I have come to learn more about myself, what I need and want and what I want others to know of me throughout this process. Whatever happens, I am better off for it. I appreciate all the "tough love" and advice. It's been a long road but one that has made me stronger.


How are things going for you guys now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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