# Stuck in a hard place don't know where to go



## Stuckinahardplace (Sep 1, 2010)

My wife and I have been married for well over a decade and together for nearly 2 decades. We have been happy for the most part, however in the last few years I have become more insecure, needy and jealous to the point of damaging our marriage. During the first 10 or so years of our marriage she was more insecure and always tried to cater to my needs, but felt nothing she did was good enough. I was emotionally immature I admit. I have been a somewhat jealous person, and I have not allowed my wife to have friendships with men. However she has always said that she always had better more personal friendships with males when she was younger.

The last few years she has reached out to several male friends, mostly on Facebook, and she has had lunch maybe 1 time with several of her male friends. Because of my insecurities and jealousy I would have a difficult time with her doing that, however it manifested itself by me being needy instead of communicating how it made me feel. About 4 months ago she reached out to an old friend, they started on FB and eventually set up a lunch date, she spent several hours on the date, and I really was anxious and had a hard time with it she could see that I was having difficulty, but wanted to continue the friendship. She said his friendship helped her through some dark times in her adolescence and they were never romantic back then, and that her friendship would continue. A week later she told me she was having a lunch meeting (something she does on a regular basis), and I didn't think much of it. She got home from work and something didn't seem quite right with her. I just had a gut feeling something was off. Before bed I got into her iPhone and there was an email exchange between them that was hurtful and inappropriate. They also discussed having lunch that day. I was crushed, I felt like my world was crashing down on me. I confronted her and she admitted it and apologized. She said she wouldn't lie to me again, or email anything inappropriate to him again. Well, the damage was done at that point. My feelings of hurt and jealousy escalated to the point of panic. I was trying to get into her email and FB to see what they were saying to each other etc.. It became a very self destructive pattern to say the least. A week later I read a PM she sent to him on FB and it set me off. She was out with friends(girls) when I read her message in Facebook. I sent her a text told her to get home or I was leaving. When she got home, worried of course, I blew up and said some hurtful things, as I was hurting and it came out in a hurtful way.

To make a long story short, we are in counseling now both marriage and individually with separate counselors. She is still friends with this guy, but she is very open with me about when they meet, email and talk if I ask. She goes into great detail about her friendship with him, tells me she isn't using him for emotional support and doesn't talk with him a whole lot about our marriage problems (I don't believe her about this) but I know she talks to him about his marriage problems, she has gone into great detail with me about that.

She has said that her relationship with this friend has nothing to to with what we are going through, and that she has a lot of repressed hurt and anger about our past, and she is having a hard time getting over that, that when she gets over her hurt and anger with me and why she allowed herself to be treated badly, and I get over my jealousy and insecurities (which through counseling and time I have made great strides with) we will see where we are as a couple and has alluded to us possibly getting divorced. If I bring up her friend she gets defensive and says that its more my problem and to get over it. She is going to her second session with her counselor tomorrow and I hope that her counselor is good enough to make her realize what she is doing with this guy is destructive to our relationship. 

I feel that if I act like I am OK with her friendship she will continue it and think that its OK. I really don't feel like it is a physical affair, but I do think its an emotional affair. Again if I bring up what I think I get shot down, she says I am trying to paint her into a corner and manipulate an answer out of her. I have not talked to anyone that thinks her relationship with her friend is OK and normal, but she really thinks it is, despite my feelings.

So I am to the point where I am stuck. I don't want the marriage to end and I am committed to it. I know she is making an effort and trying to be there for me emotionally but she can't seem to do it. We are continuing counseling, but we have focused on how we are communicating in our couples couseling not on her friend. I admit that our communication on an emotional level has been poor throughout our marriage, but I listen to her more and empathize more than I ever have. I think that in her mind she believes the sticking point are the problems we have had in the past, not her guy friend and I can't get her to focus on the here and now, let alone look to the future. What should I do?


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## HopeinHouston (Mar 1, 2010)

It's definately an emotional affair and it may well allready be a physical one, regardless of what she says. Rarely is what they first admit to or "come clean with" really the whole story. 

The relationship is completely inapropriate. It shold stop. Everyone may not agree but I personally am a proponent that at all times at all costs married people should avoid one-on-one relationships/meetings/dinners/friendships with members of the opposite sex. It really is fire that you are playing with.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Having friends of the opposite sex isn't a big deal, when handled appropriately. When you are honest and open with your spouse about your friendship, when you spouse is welcome to read your emails, listen to your conversations, and is invited (whether explicitly or a blanket invitation) to join the two, it makes it clear that it is nothing more than a friendship and not something to be worried about. 

She didn't do that, though. And when told that what she was doing was bothering you, making you feel uncomfortable, and worrying you, instead of either being open immediately or ending the friendship in order to show her commitment and love to you, she continued said friendship and tried to make you feel as if you were overreacting. 

Maybe you were overreacting. Maybe it was perfectly innocent. But a spouse who cares about you would say, "I think you're overreacting, but I can see that you are bothered, and I will stop this friendship because our marriage is more important." And she didn't do that. 

Whether it's an affair or not doesn't matter anymore. What matters now is that she is disrespecting you and trivializing your feelings. Regardless of how she might react, bring it up in counseling. Force her to realize that this is a problem for you and is going to continue to be a problem for you. If she still refuses to end the friendship, then rather than try to figure out if she's cheating or not, you need to figure out if you can live the rest of your life with someone who isn't going to give any thought to your feelings.


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## Stuckinahardplace (Sep 1, 2010)

Thanks for the response. I have read a lot of posts on this site and although it has some of the signs of an emotional affair and maybe even a physical one, we still have a good intimate life, she hasn't changed her appearance, she hasn't changed her habits, she tells me when they meet for lunch and hang out. If it is an affair she either is denying it to herself (if its emotional) or lying if its physical. If I confront her at all about the friend she deflects and says that I am being jealous and insecure. And that the problem she has with me is the repressed anger and hurt she is going through, that she needs time to figure it out. She does have a lot of freedom at her job and can leave the office for hours at a time, so the opportunity time wise is there, but I have no proof that it is an emotional or physical affair and I feel the only way I would be able to prove it is with an actual email or phone conversation recording, or an investigator. I am not prepared to do that, when I do those types of things it seems to consume me and I am not myself. What if I snooped into her email/phone calls/or had her followed and found nothing, she is very guarded about her email now. 

Is my best option to wait it out? Or to continue to confront her about her friend and get denial after denial? She says she feel a lot of pressure, but not from me or the kids. She says the pressure is due to the fact that she cant get past her feelings of hurt and anger about our past. The therapist I went to thinks that has nothing to do with what we are going through and that its the other man as well. If I wait it out, and try to be myself as much as possible will the pressure of the other relationship overwhelm her? 

We still go on dates and we do family activities, but she says she can't open up to me emotionally. 

Could she be in such denial that she thinks that she isn't having an emotional affair? And if so how can I make her realize that she is without her getting so defensive and turning it back on me.

Still stuck...


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## Stuckinahardplace (Sep 1, 2010)

atruckersgirl said:


> Having friends of the opposite sex isn't a big deal, when handled appropriately. When you are honest and open with your spouse about your friendship, when you spouse is welcome to read your emails, listen to your conversations, and is invited (whether explicitly or a blanket invitation) to join the two, it makes it clear that it is nothing more than a friendship and not something to be worried about.
> 
> She didn't do that, though. And when told that what she was doing was bothering you, making you feel uncomfortable, and worrying you, instead of either being open immediately or ending the friendship in order to show her commitment and love to you, she continued said friendship and tried to make you feel as if you were overreacting.
> 
> ...


Thanks atruckersgirl. I agree with what you are saying, she knows its a problem for me, but she thinks its all my problem. She has said "if you have a problem with me being me then maybe we will get through our therapy and decide to move on, maybe we are just not compatible" I call BS on that however in many ways we have had a happy marriage. I think that she feels early on in our marriage that I didn't give any respect to her feelings and I can't say that I disagree with that assessment although she would say things have changed in that area.

And if she doesn't care about me, or give thought to my feelings then what? Move on I guess. I have not asked her if I can read the emails to her friend, but I think I know the answer and what it would lead to, she would say that I don't trust her and that I am being jealous and insecure, and its all me.

I just reread your post again, and there it is, that she would care enough to end it even if I was overreacting, and I would say that I was overreacting. But this has been a pattern with us and she said she finally decided to "dig her heels in" as she has said, and not give in this time, so maybe that is part of it as well, and maybe she is hurting to much to let the friendship go. Even at the cost of our marriage. But if she won't let me read her emails then I understand that it may be an inappropriate relationship.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Stuckinahardplace

She is following a script and from what you have written it certainly looks like she is in the early phase of an EA. Take this very seriously, 

At the moment she is jerking you around and playing hardball with you, smile at her and play it cool. 

Write a note that you can follow, in your script to her make it clear that it is wholly inappropriate that she meets, communicates or has any form of relationship with person XXX.

There is to be no further contact with him, she needs to give you unrestricted access to all communications as well as evidence where she is during the day. 

Do not threaten cajole or be overbearing, be very strong, look her in the eyes and make sure she understand the seriousness of this. 

Do not enter a dialog or debate with her. For her this is the last chance to come clean and stop.

For the privacy argument. Say Privacy is for the bathroom, secrecy is deceit.

She will either react badly or lie either way you proceed to plan. 

Do not believe she has stopped, an affair person has the ability to hurt you, be strong, lie, cheat and use measures to facilitate the affair. Her behaviours will astound you, she may be loving and a great spouse to your face but behind your back she will be cheating. 

I hope you have his contact details, better still his phone number, if not get them and furthermore start detailing the contents of the communications and the amount of time they meet. 

She will probably now go underground to avoid you tracking her. 

Load a keylogger on to the PC, if you need advice on a product post and I will send you one. 

Track down his wife and let her know of the affair, do not be shy for if it is innocent then they have nothing to hide, as we know it is not innocent do not feel any guilt. 

Go to her folks and let them know she is in an EA with XXX furthermore let her friends know and lastly at the very end if she has not stopped and provided evidence that she has call her boss and let him know she is in an emotional affair and conducting this during working hours. 

The script says you are in for a rough ride, man up suck your gut in and prepare for a fight. It is going to be hurtful and unpleasant. Counselling will not help unless the affair stops. 


Understand that you are now having to fight for your marriage, choose to follow a different path and it will be at your own peril.


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## HopeinHouston (Mar 1, 2010)

Stuckinahardplace said:


> Thanks for the response. I have read a lot of posts on this site and although it has some of the signs of an emotional affair and maybe even a physical one, *we still have a good intimate life, she hasn't changed her appearance, she hasn't changed her habits*, she tells me when they meet for lunch and hang out. If it is an affair she either is denying it to herself (if its emotional) or lying if its physical.


My wife spent 3 years having 2 long term affairs on me (first one physical only, second one both physical and emotional). We talked regularly, had monthly date nights and a regular and healthy sex life together during that time. Some women are very good at hiding it. I'm not saying it is definately happening here. But I am saying that just because "we have a good intimate life, and she hasn't changed habbits (that you can notice)" doesn't mean that she isn't either.


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## Okie (Jul 14, 2010)

Stuckinahardplace said:


> Could she be in such denial that she thinks that she isn't having an emotional affair? And if so how can I make her realize that she is without her getting so defensive and turning it back on me.
> 
> Still stuck...


Yes she can be in denial about it being an Emotional Affair. People lie even to themselves.

Get a key logger on your computer as soon as you can. It will get you the answers you need.


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## Stuckinahardplace (Sep 1, 2010)

Ok, I am going to get a Keylogger program and install it. The problem is is that she has a work computer, that she brings home and uses some of the time, however sometimes she gets on our main family one so I am sure at some point she will use it to email him. She has a therapy session today and I think she may see her friend before or after. I have put a small gps device in the car to see if she stops by his work at any time during the day and I guess I will start doing that daily. I feel so bad that this is the only option and I feel like I am being dishonest and not trusting, but I feel that this is the only option. I think she has a new separate email address or program she uses to communicate with him. She may only use this email on her work computer though. Will a keylogger show you websites that have been deleted from the history?


Last night I told her I would be more comfortable with her friendship if I had her email address and password and if there was transparency in the relationship, but she shot me down very quickly and said that it is something personal to her and that she shouldn't need to share everything in her life with me. I said I agree and if you have a journal then you can write down things that no one else including me should see. But in all other regards she should share with me, if not then yes we have bigger problems.

I wrote a list about all the things she has told me about the relationship or that I know about it, and I don't see how it can't be an emotional affair. I think I need to gather proof, email, and how many days/how long per visit she is spending with him. If I find enough proof in those things I will confront her. 

When I try to be coy about the relationship with him, but probe her she says I am trying to paint her into a corner and manipulate an answer out of her that she is not going to give me. If I tell her directly that I have a problem with it she says I don't understand her and that she needs time to work out her emotions and hurt from our past and she can't be here for me the way that I want her to be. I really feel that she is lying to herself and that this is all me problem, thats what makes it so hard. She is a very reasonable rational smart person, why can't she see that she is in a EA?


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## HopeinHouston (Mar 1, 2010)

She does know that it is, she is beging defensive. Deny, lie, defensive, don't open up, doesn't want transparency ... it's right out of the cheaters handbook. Read some of the other threads here, so many of our stories are so eerily similar because they all play out of the same handbook.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Stuckinahardplace.

Slow steps. Your wife can savour the moment when she falls it must be hard and you must be there to recover the marriage.

Make sure you draw up a plan and follow it.

As for the work computer, keep an eye on it, if she pops to the loo have a peek, not to long and do not get caught. If it is locked then you know for sure. This could be an advantage for if she is using the company laptop HR teams have a dim view of affairs on company time and property. 

A hidden email account is a probability.

Will a keylogger show you websites that have been deleted from the history?
- I believe they do


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## HopeinHouston (Mar 1, 2010)

Wisp said:


> .
> 
> Will a keylogger show you websites that have been deleted from the history?
> - I believe they do


Not only do they show you the sites, most have views where you go through and literally see every single thing that was done on that computer. So if she is having a conversation with him (or someone else) on facebook, you not only see that she was on facebook you literally can go through and read the entire conversation.


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Buy a professional package not the free ones.

Something like: - Specter soft key logger or

http://www.webwatchernow.com/


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## Stuckinahardplace (Sep 1, 2010)

I have not directly told her that the relationship with him needs to end, actually I did in the beginning, but I relented and told her I did not want her to resent me for making her end it. I realize now that was a mistake, I should have stuck to my guns. I thought she would be able to see on her own that it was destructive to our marriage, and one of the issues we are working on is that I can be controlling. 

Tomorrow we have a couples counseling session and I am going to tell her that I think the relationship she is having is detrimental to our marriage with the difficulty we are going through and that it needs to end. I don't know how the counselor will react, because we have mostly focused on communicating better and dealing with my anxiety/insecurity/jealousy. I know whenever I bring it up at home she gets defensive, but I have not directly told her it needs to end and it is inappropriate since the beginning when it blew up.. If she chooses not to end it or decides to go underground with it then I will take the next step.

I have a hard time giving in and checking her email/FB and phone records, because this was one of the things that feeds my insecurities and when I did that in the past my fears were unfounded. I know In the past my insecurity/neediness and jealousy were detrimental to our marriage and more than likely that is why she feels she needs this friendship. I will see how it goes at the session tomorrow I guess.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Here's the problem, Stuckinahardplace. In real life you are still being controlling. Want to know how I can tell? YOU are telling HER what she can and can not do, namely that she "has to end" the relationship with the OM. So Stuck, let me remind you that you can not control or change HER. You can only control and change YOU. 

In practical terms that means you can not tell her that she has to end that relationship. What if she doesn't want to? That means she either has to be defiant or she has to lie to you. What you can do is tell her what YOU will do and what is good for you. For example: "It is my personal opinion and observation that continuing the relationship with <OM> is harming our marriage and I know it is hurting me severely. Thus, I have decided I am not willing to be your doormat. I request that you think of what we have together and volunteer to never contact <OM> again, but if you are not willing to do that, I'm also not willing to fund the gravy train so you can carry on with another man." 

See, a boundary is not a rule you set up for HER to follow. A boundary is for YOU. It's saying "...Here is the fence around me, the border, and here is what I will and will not allow in the space around me." You could say, "If you want to be with me and enjoy the benefits I can offer, I do not accept a partner who continues adultery. I need at minimum a spouse who will treat me with respect." Thus, if she wants to continue with the OM she can respect you enough to leave you and let OM give her cake so she can eat it too


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## Stuckinahardplace (Sep 1, 2010)

Wow very good insight about me on that one affaircare. You are correct. And that approach sounds much more reasonable for her and does not tell her what she can and cannot do.


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## Stuckinahardplace (Sep 1, 2010)

Well I tried to set up a boundary, but I am weak and gave in. Its almost like she can justify seeing him if she tells me about it. I didn't have proof either and I do now and although the truth hurts (bad)at least I know I'm not crazy. The hard part it we are going to counseling, both individually and together. So I looked at the affaircare website 7 steps. From the emails I know the affair is not physical, well touching, and maybe kissing, but a lot of longing and fantasizing. I have a counseling session on Friday and I am going to tell my counselor, who also happens to be our marriage counselor about it. My question is if its not physical (no proof) do I broach the subject the same way? Also things could get ugly and we have three kids that have seen their mom and dad get along (even through the tough times) pretty well. I don't wan't collateral damage right now, even if we do make it.

Also, what if I can't get past the affair and trust again? I think I can right now, but if it gets ugly who knows. We always said that if either of us had an affair it would end the marriage, so she may be scared about that as well. 

The sad part is I know when I confront her, she will deny, deny deny even though the proof is concrete. I will not show her the proof I have no matter what for now. She may even ask for a separation or divorce I fear, but I may be wrong. She is going to Europe in 2 weeks with her sister for about 17 days and I need to confront her in some way before she goes. I don't want to drop a bomb on her and ruin her trip though. What to do


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

If you do follow the seven steps then the approach to how you deal with the affair is exactly the same, regardless of the behavior of the affair partners. You have evidence, you know the affair is going on. You have step one done already. 

Go to step two and prepare for the next two - they require a bit of thought before you do them. 

Yes, she will deny (most likely). That's standard behavior. Just expect it an don't get caught up in an argument trying to prove it, or get her to change her denial. All that does is create more stress. 

As for worrying about 'ruining' her trip to Europe: how much thought did she put into ruining your life with an affair? Ending the affair is far more important that whether she has a good vacation in Europe or not. If all goes well, the two of you may end up on that trip instead of her and her sister. Make sure you get through at least the first two steps before she leaves:

Regarding step two (Confrontation): 

Make sure that you state clearly that you know the affair is going on and _respectfully_ request that she end it. That's all you need to to with Step Two. Her decision to continue or not is hers to make. This is not a time for any argument at all. This is simply a declaration and request. Leave it at that, go no further. If she does decide to return to the marriage give her three conditions: 

1) End all contact, including writing a No Contact letter that you proof-read and mail (sample letters here.)

2) Transparent honesty: the two of you should be sharing all passwords, email and social networking logins, phone records, etc. 

3) A commitment to working on the marriage with you.

She may ask for a separation, etc. That often happens. But it is not the end! She'll find out how difficult things are without you. You'll learn many, many tools and ways to improve yourself and make your seem like the best choice for her - and she will NOT be learning those things, because unlike you, her concentration will be on what she is already doing. SO don't worry too much about separation - or even some request for divorce - you have a lot of time, and if you are careful, work hard, and stay diligent, it will pay off in the end.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Stuckinahardplace said:


> ...My question is if its not physical (no proof) do I broach the subject the same way?


Stuck, our definition of infidelity is not giving 100% of your affection and loyalty to your spouse--the one to whom you promised it. So if she is not giving you 100% of her affection and 100% of her loyalty, then it is unfaithfulness. Whether sex is involved is irrelevant, so you don't need "proof" of them having sex together. You have proof that she has offered her affection to another man. 



> Also things could get ugly and we have three kids that have seen their mom and dad get along (even through the tough times) pretty well. I don't want collateral damage right now, even if we do make it.


I would suggest mentioning to your wife that you do not want things to get ugly and you don't want collateral damage, but that there is not room for unfaithfulness if she wants to remain in a marriage with you and remain in the family. She is 100% completely free to make any choice she wants, but if her choice is to continue the affair, *SHE* will be the one moving out and the kids will be staying at home with you. Why should your children lose their school, their friends, their neighborhood, their home and their BEDS because she decided to leave the family? She's free...but you are the parent too and you are going to do what's in the best interest of the children and keep their life as stable as possible. 

So let her mull that over. It may bring a bit of "reality" to her affair fantasy. 



> Also, what if I can't get past the affair and trust again? I think I can right now, but if it gets ugly who knows. We always said that if either of us had an affair it would end the marriage, so she may be scared about that as well.


That's a reasonable thing to be afraid of! I would recommend letting her know that you love her very much and realize that people can and do make very big, very bad mistakes...but if she does the right thing and ends it, you'd find it much easier to forgive. If she hardens her heart and will stop being unfaithful, that you love her enough to wait for a while but that you can't and won't be her "backup plan" forever. 



> The sad part is I know when I confront her, she will deny, deny deny even though the proof is concrete. I will not show her the proof I have no matter what for now. She may even ask for a separation or divorce I fear...What to do?


Honestly, it's been my experience that a Disloyal Spouse USUALLY denies it! I've even known of people caught in the act by their spouse, and as they stand up and put their clothes on they're saying, "It's not what it looks like!"  I know of another where the Loyal Spouse had rock-solid, concrete proof and the Disloyal filed for divorce and everything and never, ever would admit it! So if she doesn't deny it, consider yourself lucky! But if she does, just tell yourself in your head that it's par for the course and what usually happens.

So remember, your goal in this step--Confrontation--is not to be demanding and mad, but more like stating a fact: 

_"I *know* you are having an emotional affair with <name>, I have proof that it is not inappropriate and not just in my mind, and I do not want to be in a relationship with someone who is unfaithful. I love you and I respectfully request that you end all contact with <name>, give me access to all the ways you've secretly hidden your contact with him, and agree to work with me to make our marriage loving and happy--and that includes both of us looking at ourselves honestly and being willing to change the things that are hurting our marriage." _


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## Stuckinahardplace (Sep 1, 2010)

Wow, thank you very much affaircare. Your advice makes a lot of sense. I have a letter written that I am going to read. But the idea of her moving out if she chooses to continue it is great as well. Why should my kids and I be punished if it continues. 

My letter was very similar to yours as well.

Thanks again.


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## Stuckinahardplace (Sep 1, 2010)

Well I did confront her one morning when she was getting ready for work. When I did she had nothing to say at the time. She had a counseling session that day, and asked me if I could email the confrontation statement I had read to her, I told her I was not going to do that. I did not tell her what proof I had, but I told her it was irrefutable physical evidence. I think she thought I was bluffing at first, but that night I reiterated that I had irrefutable evidence again, and told her that infidelity would not be allowed in our marriage. 

That same night she began to talk to me about the relationship, and how it was something that was hers, and at her therapy session how she felt she was never "truly happy" in our marriage and that she has never been able to be herself. That she could relax and be herself when she spoke to and emailed the OM. It hurt to hear that, and I do feel that she has a point. We have been going to counseling for about 3 months now, and I do feel we have been making progress in the way we communicate, the way I listen and respond and understand to what she is saying and how my actions effect her and even if I don't agree with her opinion not to discount her feelings. I think I have made progress, but I feel like even if I had done the best job in the world with those issues It wouldn't matter because of the OM. She disagrees with me and thinks that the issues we are having are separate from the affair. She confessed to me that she had kissed him on their last "date". Honestly that didn't hurt as badly as what I had read in the emails, the fantasy they have been living and the confessions of love that they have given each other. She admitted the relationship was wrong but would not call it an affair, at least not out loud. She said she was sorry what she had done hurt me, but at that time did not say she was ending it or letting me have her passwords and contact info.

The next morning I reiterated the affair was killing our marriage and hurting our family. She got out of bed without saying a word, got ready for work and said good bye. I went into the bathroom and noticed she didn't wear a ring that day. It was the first time in our marriage that she didn't wear a ring that I can remember. She told me later she had just forgotten it. 

A day later she still hadn't said anything about ending the affair and I decided to contact someone we both trust and share the information I had about the affair, and ask her to confront my spouse about it and to end it. That meeting went well and the trusted person was very angry with my spouse, but she is a close relative to my spouse so I didn't know how it would really go. That same evening I talked to my spouse again and she said she was going to end it and she would CC me a copy of the email she sends. That was Thursday and she still hasn't done that yet, but I am pretty sure that she has not contacted the OM since. She has been a lot more emotional and sad. She also confessed the relationship to her mother. 

The big issue I have still is that she has yet to show any remorse. I almost feel like she is angry at me for taking away her "friendship" with the OM. Or that I am just squashing her emotionally again. She has said she is sorry she hurt me, but I was hoping for something more. I think she is grieving for the end of the affair right now. We had a marriage counseling session on Friday and we had a long talk after. She said she doesn't know if she can come to grips with the fact that she has never been emotionally secure and ever felt totally loved in our marriage. I get that, but if she is with the OM will I ever get a chance to show that she can be emotionally secure and loved unconditionally by me? Also my anxiety was so bad at times because I have felt since day one that her relationship with the OM was inappropriate and my gut was telling me that, but it felt so good to her and she was open about it (somewhat anyway) that I tried to be OK with it (even though thats not what my gut instinct was telling me). And she has focused on my anxiety in our sessions as well, like its a major problem for her. When I have had anxiety and I get emotional her reaction has been to emotionally withdraw from me.

I know its a process, but does all this sound normal at this point? 

Thanks


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> The big issue I have still is that she has yet to show any remorse.


Is your wife willing to work on your marriage? If so, then there are some things you can expect, and ask of her. 

First, consider the three conditions we talk about all the time on this thread:

1) Your wife writes a no contact letter to the other man - that YOU proof-read and then YOU mail.

Here is a reason for No Contact.

Here are some sample No Contact letters to give you an idea of what you need to see in the letter.

It doesn't matter if she claims it has already been sent, or that the affair is ended: you do not have that proof, and if she is willing to return to the marriage, she'll give this serious consideration.

2) Transparent Honesty: She gives you all her passwords, email account and social networking log-ins, access to all phone records, chat records, etc. Actually, its a good idea for you to give her all yours as well, because you will want to show her that you are absolutely trustworthy, that you, unlike her, have nothing to hide. In a healthy marriage, these secrets should not exist between you two.

3) Commitment to working on the marriage - including considering third party counsel, if necessary. We have lots of tools we can suggest for you that make this a very successful task (and fulfilling, meaningful, etc.) You must also make this commitment - it would do no good for your wife to work on the marriage by herself!​
As for her 'showing remorse' - that is not a requirement for work on the marriage. It may well be that her personality type simply does not reflect emotions as readily. She has stated that she is sorry: what is more important than her displaying various emotions is that she is willing to work on the marriage. Is she? Are you? Takes both of you!



> I almost feel like she is angry at me for taking away her "friendship" with the OM. Or that I am just squashing her emotionally again. She has said she is sorry she hurt me, but I was hoping for something more. I think she is grieving for the end of the affair right now.


This is quite possible - in fact, quite normal. Her emotions were tied to the Other Man (and, may still be) - and ANY time an emotional attachment is ended, there is a greiving process. Moreover, she is in a very precarious place right now: _if the affair is over_ she is in limbo: she fell for the Other Man because he was providing something that at least she did not feel she was getting at home. Now that is gone; and in her mind it possible that she is looking at being trapped back in the same old marriage where that need is not fulfilled. 

Neither of you wants that old marriage back, right?

That is why it is so important for both of to acknowledge responsibility for problems in the marriage, and work to correct them. In nearly every affair (I have YET to find an exception), the reason it happens is NOT a flaw in the disloyal spouse, but a choice of the wrong solution to a flaw in the marriage.



> We had a marriage counseling session on Friday and we had a long talk after. She said she doesn't know if she can come to grips with the fact that she has never been emotionally secure and ever felt totally loved in our marriage. I get that, but if she is with the OM will I ever get a chance to show that she can be emotionally secure and loved unconditionally by me?


If the affair is still going on, there can be no work on the marriage. It's that simple. Hence the three conditions I listed above. Her statements to you sound like fog-talk ("I love you, but I'm not IN love with you...etc.) The use of absolutes in this manner reveals that she is not over the other man. Give her time, and do not take those statements to heart much: they will be modified into a more truthful permutation eventually.



> Also my anxiety was so bad at times because I have felt since day one that her relationship with the OM was inappropriate and my gut was telling me that, but it felt so good to her and she was open about it (somewhat anyway) that I tried to be OK with it (even though thats not what my gut instinct was telling me). And she has focused on my anxiety in our sessions as well, like its a major problem for her. When I have had anxiety and I get emotional her reaction has been to emotionally withdraw from me.


It may well be a major problem for her! That's something you'll have to deal with - once you begin actual work on your marriage. Often, a person who works themself into an anxiety attack tends to try to draw energy from those around them, they become extremely needy - or at least appear so. This can be very draining and frustrating. 

I suggest that you acknowledge that you are feeling anxiety: and then go about with your business regardless. It's a lot easier than you at first may think: as long as you know what you have to do, you can do it, regardless of the emotions trunnion though you.


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

hi stuck ....

so, what is the update on this


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's normal for her to feel sad at losing someone with whom she feels 'good.'

YOUR job is to be the ONLY one who makes her feel 'good.'

What are you doing about that?


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