# How to get over the anger of affair/divorce



## caliguy2349

So it has been about 1 year since our separation, and 9 months since being officially divorced. My ex an I have a 4 yr old son.

She went on vacation, met a man, spent a week with him, and came back and said she wants a divorce..

Leading up to this I was a good provider, home every night, faithful, great father etc. But she wasn't happy enough, I suppose.

This man sent her large sums of money for the divorce, to get her own apartment etc. He knew she was married, knew we had a son etc.

So, she moved out, he moved to our city, they married, and she immediately became pregnant. She just gave birth to his child.

I still have to see her usually twice a week to exchange our son. She was texting me daily, started saying maybe we should not have divorced etc. (up until a couple of weeks ago while pregnant with his kid)

But the most irritating part is how she never apologized. She acts as if she did nothing wrong, and we should be great friends.. Never even said "I am sorry".

Even today, my son was crying during my drop off, as he didn't want to leave me.. Rips my heart out... How do I get over the resentment?


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## LBHmidwest

They never, meaning her and 1000's of others discussed her, see what they do. In her mind, she is just finding her happiness. Depending on the minute, it's ever changing and rarely was the spouse the issue.


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## Dude007

And they are usually bonkers!


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## caliguy2349

LBHmidwest said:


> They never, meaning her and 1000's of others discussed her, see what they do. In her mind, she is just finding her happiness. Depending on the minute, it's ever changing and rarely was the spouse the issue.


Exactly... And in this scenario, the entire thing happened in three months.. Divorce,pregnant,marriage to other guy...

Never any talk of problems, counseling, etc..

if there was atleast a sincere apology, perhaps I wouldn't have as much resentment.. But there never was.. And I still have to see her face twice a week at least for next 14 years...


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## LBHmidwest

Don't see it, why do you have to?

I do hugs and kisses with kids before dropping off. I back into driveway, they get out, I hear them say mom or detect she's there and I'm in drive heading out. 

Is it best for kids, no. Is it better to take her abuse, yelling and me getting upset- no. 

Besides, I hear she reallllllllllllllllllly hates that I do that and then people tell her, "You wanted the divorce, why are you mad he doesn't talk to you?" She doesn't get how idiotic she sounds that an ex dare NOT engage.

Again, it's all about them. Rational is a train they ride.


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## Marc878

You'll get over her soon enough. Think of the bad things instead of any good with her. You'll move along a lot faster.

I wouldn't accept any calls and answer only texts about the kid. You need to put her as far away as possible out of your life.

She wants to be friends for one reason. Get over her guilt of what she's done. She's not your friend. Friends are trustworthy, loyal and honest. She's none of those. You're getting breadcrumbs to make her feel better. Stop!!!!!!

The positive thing is you can make your life what you wanted it to be.


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## drifting on

Caliguy2349

I don't know if that resentment will ever fully go away. Not to say that it won't, but to some degree I think the sting of infidelity will stay within you as resentment. I can only hope that in time that resentment changes to indifference. 

If she was texting you up to the birth if the child about not divorcing, then she may not be all that happy now. Maybe the stresses of everyday life and the fantasy balloon exploding she's finding out she's not so happy about her decision. I would just keep working on yourself and keep all communication child related only. 

Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Arrange to exchange the kid via an intermediary. Maybe a daycare, pre-school, whatever.


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## caliguy2349

As of 3 weeks ago i told her not to call or text anymore unless an emergency. I told her to email anything child related we need to discuss. She seemed offended..

What she started doing (while 7 months pregnant), was sending photos corresponding to the exact date in our past.. So for example aug 25, she would send photos from aug 25 2014, 2013, 2012, etc, and then comment how she was happy back then etc..

As for pick ups I switched this to the target next to my house as I do not want her at or near my house.. This also offended her, and she tries to say THAT bothers our son.. Although he never said a word to me.. As if now I am responsible for hurting him in some way...


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## Marc878

Yep she's not liking that her cake eating days with you are over. Good for you.

Look she left you and got knocked up by her OM!!!!! Her actions told you she trashed your marriage so it could never be fixed. She made her bed let her lay in it. You're young and have a full life ahead of you. The faster you put her behind you the faster you move on. You have no other option here. Since she's started a new family maybe she could give you sole custody of the kid????? Then you'd never have to see her.

Here's what I'd tell her. As a final word. You are nothing to me now and I've moved on. Then block her from everything except texts about your son.

You'll do fine it just takes time. 

Best wishes to you and your son.


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## arbitrator

LBHmidwest said:


> They never, meaning her and 1000's of others discussed her, see what they do. In her mind, she is just finding her happiness. Depending on the minute, it's ever changing and rarely was the spouse the issue.


*Haven't you heard? It's not about your happiness, your families happiness, your son's happiness, or even a gnat's happiness ~ it's all about  her happiness and her perceived entitlement to such!

In time, you'll get your bearings back, but you'll still find your angry moments ~ as well you should! She pissed you off by being unfaithful~ why "sugar coat" it?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bibi1031

caliguy2349 said:


> Exactly... And in this scenario, the entire thing happened in three months.. Divorce,pregnant,marriage to other guy...
> 
> Never any talk of problems, counseling, etc..


Nothing this life altering is out of the blue. There are usually very subtle hints that something is off Kilter.
By the time the WS physically leaves the relationship, they have already emotionally detached from the left behind spouse. Hence why very few realize what they have lost and don't want to reconcile. The great mayority walk away and never look back. 

They do so much rewriting of history as well. Great mechanism to emotionally detach BTW.

Bibi


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## SecondTime'Round

Sounds like she's definitely having major regrets, especially evident by her sending you those pics. 

It's very difficult to get over the resentment when you don't have an apology and will probably never receive one. I'm in the same boat at the moment. 

My advice is to get into some counseling. My counselor is wiser than me and she has wise words about never getting an apology and still eventually being able to forgive. I'm not there yet, but it's what I am working toward. I also haven't done this yet, but it was suggested to me (maybe here???) to write yourself a letter FROM your wife and say in that letter all of the things you wish you'd hear from her. Then burn it or do whatever is symbolic. Someone here also suggested the book Radical Forgiveness and I have purchased that but haven't started reading it yet because I'm going through another book at the moment. 

I realized yesterday that the percentage of time I spend going over and over and over in my head (usually while driving) what a terrible person he is are lessening. He's occupying less space in my head and I'm headed toward detachment and indifference. It's taken counseling, prayer, and a conscious redirecting of my thoughts when they pop up. 

So sorry for what you've been through. Don't let her back into your life. (I did, and look where I am....again....)


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## Dude007

Start remembering the entire marriage and focus on what YOU did wrong in the relationship. Do not re-write, take the hit as u remember all u have done wrong. This doesn't excuse the affair but the resentment will drop fast!! We all have some fault and blame in a failed relationship. This is an integral part of the process Dude


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## Mr.Fisty

Sorry, the best thing you can do is limit contact, and ignore and delete all non-essential messages that do not pertain to your son.

The best way to move on is making positive changes in your life and surround yourself with those that bring on feelings of fulfillment, start new activities and hobbies that increase positive emotions. When you get lost in the here and now, thoughts about her will fade.

The less you have thoughts about the source of your anger and pain, the faster those feelings die and go extinct.

Her thought process is alien to you and let her live in the life she created.


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## GusPolinski

caliguy2349 said:


> As of 3 weeks ago i told her not to call or text anymore unless an emergency. I told her to email anything child related we need to discuss. She seemed offended..
> 
> What she started doing (while 7 months pregnant), was sending photos corresponding to the exact date in our past.. So for example aug 25, she would send photos from aug 25 2014, 2013, 2012, etc, and then comment how she was happy back then etc..


When you have your son, block her calls and texts. You can also divert her e-mails to a folder other than your inbox, configure e-mail so that it strips away or disallows any attachments from her, etc.

You could also move your existing cell number over to something like Google Voice, which give you tons of options in terms of filtering calls and texts. This would require that you get another number for your existing line; depending on which carrier you use and where you are in your cell contract, this may result in ending your contract, early termination fees, etc.

Or get a simple flip phone for communicating w/ your ex... something w/ a certain number of minutes per month, no data, and no texting. Port your existing number over to this phone and get a new number for your existing phone. Again, depending on how you go about doing this, you may incur ETFs w/ this option. Talk w/ your carrier w/ respect to options.

Tons of options here.



caliguy2349 said:


> As for pick ups I switched this to the target next to my house as I do not want her at or near my house.. This also offended her, and she tries to say THAT bothers our son.. Although he never said a word to me.. As if now I am responsible for hurting him in some way...


Perfect reply...

"Eh... he'll get over it."

Again, look into swapping via a daycare or something like that so that you don't have to see her anymore.


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## Rowan

SecondTime'Round said:


> It's very difficult to get over the resentment when you don't have an apology and will probably never receive one.


Having been there, let me say that an apology really doesn't do nearly as much as you probably think it will when it comes to helping you get over resentment for a cheating spouse or former spouse. "I'm sorry", once you get it, really just doesn't mean all that much. Sorry for what? For cheating, for lying, for betrayal, for blowing up your marriage, for costing you years of your life, for making you feel like the crazy one, for destroying your family, for not being the person you thought they were, for not being the person they pretended to be? Somehow, once you really start to think about all the damage they did, "sorry" just doesn't really cut it. Particularly with an unrepentant person who hasn't actually changed. Them doing the hard work to change themselves and be a better human being might help curb some of the resentment. An apology, without that work, usually won't. 

My suggestion is to try to get to a place of acceptance. This is who they are. They could apologize, but it wouldn't do any good and wouldn't change anything or undo any of the hurt. And, chances are, they're mostly sorry for getting caught or that they're unhappy with the consequences of the choices they made - not for hurting you. Once you reach acceptance, the apathy starts to set in, and the resentment fades because you no longer care enough to go to the trouble of resenting them.


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## lifeistooshort

I think she's attempting to keep you as a backup. If you start seeing someone else she'll probably get more aggressive and no decent woman is going to put up with you being "best friends" with your ex wife. 

Cut her off completely unless it's kid related . Of course that offends her, it means she can't keep you as a backup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caliguy2349

Yes. After about 6 months I found a gf, and she found out through my son. This is probably when she started the "I wish we didn't divorce" game. 

She was even telling me she didn't like being pregnant. It was better the first time. She didn't want a daughter. Etc. 

Her new husband travels for work, so it is her, my son, her daughter and mother in law sitting in house together for a month or two whil the guy works. Lol. 

For her I think any attention is good attention which is why I am glad I ended these texts and calls. It was either her being nice, being snotty, blaming me for our sons behavior etc. Life is getting better although when alone still infuriated
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dude007

"Life is getting better although when alone still infuriated" Anger is the easiest emotion and can hide tougher feelings like hurt/despair. I'd start preparing yourself for that stage now by working out like you are training for a decathlon...DUDE


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## Jung_admirer

When faced with an unremorseful betrayer you have two options: 
1) Revenge or vengeance
2) Mercy and grace
.
Forgiveness requires both mercy and grace. You must make a choice with the understanding that your choice shows who you are and says nothing about your wayward partner. No one can or should advocate this choice for you. Mercy & grace are the highest of all human virtues, which is why they are so difficult to cultivate and practice. To be certain most people regard mercy as weakness or fearfulness. You must decide who you are and what you stand for. 
.
Your partner appears to want to reconcile such that you remain on friendly terms. A purely selfish act that you are justified in rejecting. Consequence is not the same thing as punishment.


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## Bananapeel

I was very angry too after I found my wife cheating and it took me going to a counselor to get over it. Basically we sat down and talked about why I was specifically angry. In my case there were two issues. It was my first major failure in life and for the first time I felt like I wasn't in control. We sat down and dissected those issues out and it didn't take long to realize that I never failed (I was a great husband and father), it was my XW that failed herself and the marriage by her actions and lies. Then we talked about the loss of control and how you can't control others, only yourself. Then we looked at my actions and it was apparent that I was totally in control of me the whole time and making clearly healthy decisions given the situation. By nullifying the two reasons for anger the anger left. I am rarely triggered to where I get a little sad and hurt at times, but the anger is done and the other feelings are lessening too. Have you dissected the underlying reasons for your anger yet so you can specifically address them?

As far as the apology from her, it shouldn't really matter. Get to the point where you can forgive your wife. Not because she deserves it but because you deserve to not be held back by her anymore. Forgiveness is actually more about the forgiver moving on than it is about giving peace to the person that hurt them. Remember that. If she isn't asking for forgiveness it means she's still a broken person and isn't ready to heal herself.


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## Bibi1031

Rowan said:


> My suggestion is to try to get to a place of acceptance. This is who they are. They could apologize, but it wouldn't do any good and wouldn't change anything or undo any of the hurt. And, chances are, they're mostly sorry for getting caught or that they're unhappy with the consequences of the choices they made - not for hurting you. Once you reach acceptance, the apathy starts to set in, and the resentment fades because you no longer care enough to go to the trouble of resenting them.


Wow, this is so true. My XH apologized so many times, but it didn't change a thing. TIME got me to a place of acceptance and I must admit I can't feel apathy for someone I loved more than life itself. I have no ill feelings for him any more. I actually feel sorry for him. He is so lost and has aged so rapidly that it's mind boggling. I still love the man he WAS. That man is long gone.

Bibi


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## caliguy2349

Bananapeel said:


> I was very angry too after I found my wife cheating and it took me going to a counselor to get over it. Basically we sat down and talked about why I was specifically angry. In my case there were two issues. It was my first major failure in life and for the first time I felt like I wasn't in control. We sat down and dissected those issues out and it didn't take long to realize that I never failed (I was a great husband and father), it was my XW that failed herself and the marriage by her actions and lies. Then we talked about the loss of control and how you can't control others, only yourself. Then we looked at my actions and it was apparent that I was totally in control of me the whole time and making clearly healthy decisions given the situation. By nullifying the two reasons for anger the anger left. I am rarely triggered to where I get a little sad and hurt at times, but the anger is done and the other feelings are lessening too. Have you dissected the underlying reasons for your anger yet so you can specifically address them?
> 
> As far as the apology from her, it shouldn't really matter. Get to the point where you can forgive your wife. Not because she deserves it but because you deserve to not be held back by her anymore. Forgiveness is actually more about the forgiver moving on than it is about giving peace to the person that hurt them. Remember that. If she isn't asking for forgiveness it means she's still a broken person and isn't ready to heal herself.


Well, I guess the anger comes from the fact that my life is, and will be much more difficult on a daily basis..

If it was just between her and I, I would be over this.. Here are some examples..

A. Work.. hard to run a business and see my son as much as I do.

B. Child support.. pay her a good amount, she drives a Range Rover, and my sons shows up with shoes 2 sizes too small.

C. Dating.. need to find a woman who accepts that I have a son, and at best my son will always be a step son in both homes..

So, by marrying her, supporting her, loving her, I am stuck with a lifetime that is much more difficult..While she acts like nothing happened, and I am odd for not wanting to be best friends.,.

its basically being handed a life that is now much more difficult on a day to day basis..


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## SecondTime'Round

Definitely harder in those regards, I agree. But, with regard to things like the shoes....you could also buy your son new shoes. It's quite possible she had no clue he'd even outgrown them. Little kids often don't vocalize stuff like that and even though you're paying her child support, being a single mom is logistically difficult too. Maybe she had not gotten a chance to get out and get new shoes (if she realized at all that they were too small). It drives me crazy if my ex gets on me about stuff like that because he has no clue how much stuff I have to logistically juggle as a mom (with a more flexible full time job than his). All school related forms, schedules, etc., all doctor's appointments, birthday parties, etc. Just playing devil's advocate! Just because one person receives child support it doesn't mean that they have to be responsible for everything related to the child.


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## Dude007

caliguy2349 said:


> Well, I guess the anger comes from the fact that my life is, and will be much more difficult on a daily basis..
> 
> If it was just between her and I, I would be over this.. Here are some examples..
> 
> A. Work.. hard to run a business and see my son as much as I do.
> 
> B. Child support.. pay her a good amount, she drives a Range Rover, and my sons shows up with shoes 2 sizes too small.
> 
> C. Dating.. need to find a woman who accepts that I have a son, and at best my son will always be a step son in both homes..
> 
> So, by marrying her, supporting her, loving her, I am stuck with a lifetime that is much more difficult..While she acts like nothing happened, and I am odd for not wanting to be best friends.,.
> 
> its basically being handed a life that is now much more difficult on a day to day basis..


I get that but can you honestly say you would have done the same amount of soul searching and personal growth had she not done this? I agree it sucks for a while but believe it or not there are positives. I've seen betrayed people who were out of shape(FAT), who literally turned on a dime and got into the best shape of their life. Had their never been a betrayal/divorce they would have had all kinds of health problems by now. Does this make sense?


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## caliguy2349

I did go buy him new shoes. She doesn't work outside of the home. 

She has no bill/money responsibility. I pay her and this guy pays the bills. 

I mean if I don't pay my bills and child support I am homeless and in jail. Not really the same scenario we both have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caliguy2349

Dude007 said:


> I get that but can you honestly say you would have done the same amount of soul searching and personal growth had she not done this? I agree it sucks for a while but believe it or not there are positives. I've seen betrayed people who were out of shape(FAT), who literally turned on a dime and got into the best shape of their life. Had their never been a betrayal/divorce they would have had all kinds of health problems by now. Does this make sense?


Yes. And I do see some positives. I need to hire more people and have more free time. I do have a son I love. I found ways to earn more etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bibi1031

Jung_admirer said:


> When faced with an unremorseful betrayer you have two options:
> 1) Revenge or vengeance
> 2) Mercy and grace
> .
> Forgiveness requires both mercy and grace. You must make a choice with the understanding that your choice shows who you are and says nothing about your wayward partner. No one can or should advocate this choice for you. Mercy & grace are the highest of all human virtues, which is why they are so difficult to cultivate and practice. To be certain most people regard mercy as weakness or fearfulness. You must decide who you are and what you stand for.
> .
> Your partner appears to want to reconcile such that you remain on friendly terms. A purely selfish act that you are justified in rejecting. Consequence is not the same thing as punishment.


Wow, very thought provoking post in a very good way.

Thank you, 

Bibi


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## tom67

caliguy2349 said:


> Yes. And I do see some positives. I need to hire more people and have more free time. I do have a son I love. I found ways to earn more etc.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are doing as well as can be expected and yes I know it's not fair but you will get through this.:smile2:


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## caliguy2349

And my biggest source of anger is towards this man. The man who actually sent my wife tens of tjousands of dollars after knowing her for a week. I wish she would have married anyone but him. But this is the man who is now the "step father". He did his best to destroy my life and my sons life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bananapeel

caliguy2349 said:


> Well, I guess the anger comes from the fact that my life is, and will be much more difficult on a daily basis..
> 
> If it was just between her and I, I would be over this.. Here are some examples..
> 
> A. Work.. hard to run a business and see my son as much as I do.
> 
> B. Child support.. pay her a good amount, she drives a Range Rover, and my sons shows up with shoes 2 sizes too small.
> 
> C. Dating.. need to find a woman who accepts that I have a son, and at best my son will always be a step son in both homes..
> 
> So, by marrying her, supporting her, loving her, I am stuck with a lifetime that is much more difficult..While she acts like nothing happened, and I am odd for not wanting to be best friends.,.
> 
> its basically being handed a life that is now much more difficult on a day to day basis..


Definitely a tough situation. I'd strongly recommend you find a good counselor because it sounds like you really need it. It was seriously the best money I've spent.


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## WasDecimated

Bibi1031 said:


> Nothing this life altering is out of the blue. There are usually very subtle hints that something is off Kilter.
> 
> Bibi


I Disagree. This is not always the case. My XWW completely changed right after her parents died. Within about 3 months she became a different person. Her main goal in life was now to go out drinking and partying. She started spending huge amounts of money, lying about it as well as other things, and eventually cheating with an old school friend from facebook. I have cards and notes that she gave me just before this happened where she tells me how much she loves me and thanks God for putting me in her life. We had also just came home from a fabulous trip together. There were no warnings for me. I was constantly being reassured that she loved me and she was happy. The only subtle hints were not so subtle and only became visible after her change. 



Dude007 said:


> Start remembering the entire marriage and focus on what YOU did wrong in the relationship. Do not re-write, take the hit as u remember all u have done wrong. This doesn't excuse the affair but the resentment will drop fast!! We all have some fault and blame in a failed relationship. This is an integral part of the process Dude


I disagree with this too. You are assuming that the relationship failed. Relationships don't fail...people do. It only takes one person to destroy a marriage. Your statement also assumes that the marriage was bad or the BS was a main contributor to environment that forced the WS to cheat. I realize that no marriage is perfect but some marriages really are good and cheating happens in good marriages as much as bad ones. Regardless, the WS can become hell bent on destroying a marriage based on some irrational thought process that are no reflection on the BS or their history together. 

When I think back to what I did wrong in my marriage, nothing of significance stands out, certainly nothing that would warrant the equivalent of a marital nuclear detonation as a justified response. I was honest, loving, giving, devoted, hard working, strong, sensitive...etc. When I asked my XWW what I did to deserve this? It took her a couple days to come up with any answers. The best she could come up with was, years earlier, I didn't take her to some BBQ she wanted to go to and I didn't have enough friends and go out with them enough...really? 

Sorry, The resentment for XWW's cheating and destruction of our marriage and family will never go away. I well always carry a degree of anger because of this.


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## caliguy2349

Decimated said:


> I Disagree. This is not always the case. My XWW completely changed right after her parents died. Within about 3 months she became a different person. Her main goal in life was now to go out drinking and partying. She started spending huge amounts of money, lying about it as well as other things, and eventually cheating with an old school friend from facebook. I have cards and notes that she gave me just before this happened where she tells me how much she loves me and thanks God for putting me in her life. We had also just came home from a fabulous trip together. There were no warnings for me. I was constantly being reassured that she loved me and she was happy. The only subtle hints were not so subtle and only became visible after her change.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this too. You are assuming that the relationship failed. Relationships don't fail...people do. It only takes one person to destroy a marriage. Your statement also assumes that the marriage was bad or the BS was a main contributor to environment that forced the WS to cheat. I realize that no marriage is perfect but some marriages really are good and cheating happens in good marriages as much as bad ones. Regardless, the WS can become hell bent on destroying a marriage based on some irrational thought process that are no reflection on the BS or their history together.
> 
> When I think back to what I did wrong in my marriage, nothing of significance stands out, certainly nothing that would warrant the equivalent of a marital nuclear detonation as a justified response. I was honest, loving, giving, devoted, hard working, strong, sensitive...etc. When I asked my XWW what I did to deserve this? It took her a couple days to come up with any answers. The best she could come up with was, years earlier, I didn't take her to some BBQ she wanted to go to and I didn't have enough friends and go out with them enough...really?
> 
> Sorry, The resentment for XWW's cheating and destruction of our marriage and family will never go away. I well always carry a degree of anger because of this.


Wow. Almost my exact situation. She changed after her father died. Also when I asked "what did I do" she didn't have much of an answer. Then blamed it on a dress she wanted to buy years ago, some yard lights I didn't buy, and a family gym membership. That was her actual answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dude007

Guys it's not about who's fault it is or where the blame ultimately lies. It's about your own growth and healing and to do that you need to self examine, not ***** about the ex wife the rest of your life.(which some people do) Taking blame for what you did wrong helps YOU!!! It's not to blameshift. So no, it's not his fault and she definitely went bonkers.


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## caliguy2349

Dude007 said:


> Guys it's not about who's fault it is or where the blame ultimately lies. It's about your own growth and healing and to do that you need to self examine, not ***** about the ex wife the rest of your life.(which some people do) Taking blame for what you did wrong helps YOU!!! It's not to blameshift. So no, it's not his fault and she definitely went bonkers.


I hear you. But doesn't accepting some non existent blame make you feel worse?

Let's say the tables were turned. And she was a great wife. And I just decided to cheat and left her for a younger woman. 

Should she blame herself for what I did? Or think of things she could have done better even if that had nothing to do with my decision?

Is it more or less because I am a man I must have had fault? Because in the above scenario I don't think many people would tell the betrayed wife to accept blame
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bananapeel

Everybody has fault in a marriage because no marriage is ever perfect. The growth is in recognizing where you could have done better, so with your next relationship you don't make the same mistakes. The fault for the affair is 100% on her and you don't need to accept any of that. Just look internally and try to figure out what you could have done to be a better person/husband. I really liked reading MMSLP by Athol Kay. Even though it was in hindsight it gave me a lot of ideas on what I could do better for my next relationship. You might want to give it a read.

For example my XW was looking for more attention and excitement than I gave her towards the end of our relationship (she probably felt that way because our relationship didn't hold a candle to the excitement she was experiencing during her affair). This doesn't mean that we didn't have attention/excitement, just that she wanted more. So I decided to work on it and have a date with a hot nurse tomorrow that is 6 years younger than my XW  and it is going to be full throttle exciting. I also looked and realized I could be in better shape, so I did P90X3, started lifting weights, and dropped 10 lbs and almost have my 6 pack again. I also looked at a couple of things I didn't do because I got settled into the marriage and decided to start them. One is that I am going to meet with a buddy soon about opening a business together for a fun pursuit on the side. Remember, there is always room for self improvement and that's why people are saying to look internally (it doesn't mean you caused the affair, just that you can improve and do better next time). If you become the guy that is always improving himself you will become far more attractive to women in general and can use this as a time to upgrade over your XW!


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## tom67

It sucks just keep working on you.
If you don't now start lifting weights the ladies will notice.


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## caliguy2349

Bananapeel said:


> Everybody has fault in a marriage because no marriage is ever perfect. The growth is in recognizing where you could have done better, so with your next relationship you don't make the same mistakes. The fault for the affair is 100% on her and you don't need to accept any of that. Just look internally and try to figure out what you could have done to be a better person/husband. I really liked reading MMSLP by Athol Kay. Even though it was in hindsight it gave me a lot of ideas on what I could do better for my next relationship. You might want to give it a read.


As an example she might have said I didn't help with the baby enough. However I was working full time and when I would get home the baby was sleeping. Now she married a guy who is gone for months at a time. 

Sometimes people just want new excitement. Or think the grass is greener. You don't have to do anything "wrong " for that person to leave you. There is nothing "better" you can do with certain people. 

What if I left her? Should she be thinking "oh I should have cooked better. Oh I should have been better in bed. Oh I should have kept the house cleaner". That would just be fooling herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dude007

If she is self reflecting for any reason in your proposed scenario she is AHEAD. You get that right? Think of a company you ran that went bk, even though a major supplier pulled out you probably want to hoan your skills before starting the next biz. Make sense?


----------



## Bibi1031

Dude007 said:


> Guys it's not about who's fault it is or where the blame ultimately lies. It's about your own growth and healing and to do that you need to self examine, not ***** about the ex wife the rest of your life.(which some people do) Taking blame for what you did wrong helps YOU!!! It's not to blameshift. So no, it's not his fault and she definitely went bonkers.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

You rock dude!


----------



## Bibi1031

Decimated said:


> *I Disagree. This is not always the case. My XWW completely changed right after her parents died. Within about 3 months she became a different person.
> *
> 
> This is called "the trigger".
> 
> *Her main goal in life was now to go out drinking and partying. She started spending huge amounts of money, lying about it as well as other things, and eventually cheating with an old school friend from facebook*.
> 
> The trigger opened the door to "Self Medicating".
> 
> She is seeking EXTERNAL solutions to her INTERNAL pollution.
> 
> 
> *I have cards and notes that she gave me just before this happened where she tells me how much she loves me and thanks God for putting me in her life. We had also just came home from a fabulous trip together. There were no warnings for me. I was constantly being reassured that she loved me and she was happy. The only subtle hints were not so subtle and only became visible after her change. *
> 
> Just because they are messed up (AKA crazy) inside doesn't mean they don't have moments or even periods of lucidity.
> 
> 
> 
> *I disagree with this too. You are assuming that the relationship failed. Relationships don't fail...people do. It only takes one person to destroy a marriage. Your statement also assumes that the marriage was bad or the BS was a main contributor to environment that forced the WS to cheat. I realize that no marriage is perfect but some marriages really are good and cheating happens in good marriages as much as bad ones. Regardless, the WS can become hell bent on destroying a marriage based on some irrational thought process that are no reflection on the BS or their history together. *
> 
> No, no, and he!! no! Look at Dude007s explanation, it's spot on! By doing this you will begin to realize that indeed very subtle hints were there, but they were so insignificant you couldn't see them. Now this is where hindsight comes in and the TRUTH is revealed. Seek that truth by going over your life with her with a new perspective.
> 
> 
> *When I think back to what I did wrong in my marriage, nothing of significance stands out, certainly nothing that would warrant the equivalent of a marital nuclear detonation as a justified response. I was honest, loving, giving, devoted, hard working, strong, sensitive...etc. *
> 
> Absolutely true!
> 
> 
> 
> *When I asked my XWW what I did to deserve this? It took her a couple days to come up with any answers. The best she could come up with was, years earlier, I didn't take her to some BBQ she wanted to go to and I didn't have enough friends and go out with them enough...really? *
> 
> Really? Yes, that is all it took her to decide you were out and she was guilt free to self medicate.
> 
> *Sorry, The resentment for XWW's cheating and destruction of our marriage and family will never go away. I well always carry a degree of anger because of this.*


If you would only find it in your heart to realize that your XWW is in huge turmoil, your heart will tug at you. She is human and she is lost. She may never stop being lost because she may never be able to look within herself to find what was really wrong with her and heal. She will walk this Earth wounded for a very, very long time.

Bibi


----------



## caliguy2349

Dude007 said:


> If she is self reflecting for any reason in your proposed scenario she is AHEAD. You get that right? Think of a company you ran that went bk, even though a major supplier pulled out you probably want to hoan your skills before starting the next biz. Make sense?


let me ask it like this...

Let's say I have a business partner. We start a business and become successful.. Things are great for 5 years..

Then he starts smoking crack, stealing money, and disappears..

I have a couple of options..

A. never have a business partner again.

B. have another business partner, but accept blame as well.. Like if I get a new business partner I can control the future and other people with what I learned?

C. get a new business partner, accept i cant control people, and do my best..


I mean I understand maybe this is for myself to feel better.. But am i setting myself up for failure if I think it was partially me, and with these new changes it wont happen again? As if I could be able to control the siutation better in the future? When in reality you cant?


----------



## Dude007

Mitigate risk, that's what we do in biz mitigate risk wherever possible while still being in the game. That's what u are tasked with?


----------



## jb02157

caliguy2349 said:


> As of 3 weeks ago i told her not to call or text anymore unless an emergency. I told her to email anything child related we need to discuss. She seemed offended..
> 
> What she started doing (while 7 months pregnant), was sending photos corresponding to the exact date in our past.. So for example aug 25, she would send photos from aug 25 2014, 2013, 2012, etc, and then comment how she was happy back then etc..
> 
> As for pick ups I switched this to the target next to my house as I do not want her at or near my house.. This also offended her, and she tries to say THAT bothers our son.. Although he never said a word to me.. As if now I am responsible for hurting him in some way...


Don't respond or even read her texts anymore unless they relate to your son's needs. If she's unhappy and wants to be back with you, tough crap, she wrecked your marriage and ran off with someone else, let her own all the consequences.


----------



## Bananapeel

caliguy2349 said:


> I mean I understand maybe this is for myself to feel better.. But am i setting myself up for failure if I think it was partially me, and with these new changes it wont happen again? As if I could be able to control the siutation better in the future? When in reality you cant?


You can't control what someone else does in life and no matter how much you improve there are no guarantees. However, if you better yourself it increases the attraction your partner has towards you because you increase your social rank and decreases the risk of an adverse event in your marriage. Think of it this way. On a scale of 1-10 let's say you are a 6 and your wife is a 7. The risk of her losing satisfaction and straying or finding fault in the relationship is much higher than if she is a 7 and you improve yourself and move up to an 8. In the latter situation she feels lucky to have you and that she got better than she deserved. Because of the imbalance she will try to win you and be less likely to do stupid stuff to chase you away. There are a lot of ways to increase your rank. Things like working out, becoming a better man/husband/father/boss/employee, being more attentive or exciting (or whatever else you can improve on), etc. all add points. While there are no guarantees in life you want your relationship balance to be one where she feels lucky to have you because it gives more marital satisfaction. You have the power to change and improve if you want to. It might not help with her but it will help you with future relationships.

Any, BTW, YOU DIDN'T FAIL! The marriage failed because she imploded it. You did what you could to be a good husband and she violated the contract. Sounds like SHE FAILED to me, not you!


----------



## Dude007

bananapeel said:


> you can't control what someone else does in life and no matter how much you improve there are no guarantees. However, if you better yourself it increases the attraction your partner has towards you because you increase your social rank and decreases the risk of an adverse event in your marriage. Think of it this way. On a scale of 1-10 let's say you are a 6 and your wife is a 7. The risk of her losing satisfaction and straying or finding fault in the relationship is much higher than if she is a 7 and you improve yourself and move up to an 8. In the latter situation she feels lucky to have you and that she got better than she deserved. Because of the imbalance she will try to win you and be less likely to do stupid stuff to chase you away. There are a lot of ways to increase your rank. Things like working out, becoming a better man/husband/father/boss/employee, being more attentive or exciting (or whatever else you can improve on), etc. All add points. While there are no guarantees in life you want your relationship balance to be one where she feels lucky to have you because it gives more marital satisfaction. You have the power to change and improve if you want to. It might not help with her but it will help you with future relationships.
> 
> Any, btw, you didn't fail! The marriage failed because she imploded it. You did what you could to be a good husband and she violated the contract. Sounds like she failed to me, not you!


well said.......dude


----------



## Dude007

Caliguy,

I don't even know you, but you remind me of someone. Does this sound like you?(Hint: its not bad if it does)

Portrait of an ENTP - Extraverted iNtuitive Thinking Perceiving
(Extraverted Intuition with Introverted Thinking)

The Visionary

As an ENTP, your primary mode of living is focused externally, where you take things in primarily via your intuition. Your secondary mode is internal, where you deal with things rationally and logically. 

With Extraverted Intuition dominating their personality, the ENTP's primary interest in life is understanding the world that they live in. They are constantly absorbing ideas and images about the situations they are presented in their lives. Using their intuition to process this information, they are usually extremely quick and accurate in their ability to size up a situation. With the exception of their ENFP cousin, the ENTP has a deeper understanding of their environment than any of the other types. 

This ability to intuitively understand people and situations puts the ENTP at a distinct advantage in their lives. They generally understand things quickly and with great depth. Accordingly, they are quite flexible and adapt well to a wide range of tasks. They are good at most anything that interests them. As they grow and further develop their intuitive abilities and insights, they become very aware of possibilities, and this makes them quite resourceful when solving problems. 

ENTPs are idea people. Their perceptive abilities cause them to see possibilities everywhere. They get excited and enthusiastic about their ideas, and are able to spread their enthusiasm to others. In this way, they get the support that they need to fulfill their visions. 

ENTPs are less interested in developing plans of actions or making decisions than they are in generating possibilities and ideas. Following through on the implementation of an idea is usually a chore to the ENTP. For some ENTPs, this results in the habit of never finishing what they start. The ENTP who has not developed their Thinking process will have problems with jumping enthusiastically from idea to idea, without following through on their plans. The ENTP needs to take care to think through their ideas fully in order to take advantage of them. 

The ENTP's auxiliary process of Introverted Thinking drives their decision making process. Although the ENTP is more interested in absorbing information than in making decisions, they are quite rational and logical in reaching conclusions. When they apply Thinking to their Intuitive perceptions, the outcome can be very powerful indeed. A well-developed ENTP is extremely visionary, inventive, and enterprising. 

ENTPs are fluent conversationalists, mentally quick, and enjoy verbal sparring with others. They love to debate issues, and may even switch sides sometimes just for the love of the debate. When they express their underlying principles, however, they may feel awkward and speak abruptly and intensely. 

The ENTP personality type is sometimes referred to the "Lawyer" type. The ENTP "lawyer" quickly and accurately understands a situation, and objectively and logically acts upon the situation. Their Thinking side makes their actions and decisions based on an objective list of rules or laws. If the ENTP was defending someone who had actually committed a crime, they are likely to take advantage of quirks in the law that will get their client off the hook. If they were to actually win the case, they would see their actions as completely fair and proper to the situation, because their actions were lawful. The guilt or innocence of their client would not be as relevant. If this type of reasoning goes uncompletely unchecked by the ENTP, it could result in a character that is perceived by others as unethical or even dishonest. The ENTP, who does not naturally consider the more personal or human element in decision making, should take care to notice the subjective, personal side of situations. This is a potential problem are for ENTPs. Although their logical abilities lend strength and purpose to the ENTP, they may also isolate them from their feelings and from other people. 

The least developed area for the ENTP is the Sensing-Feeling arena. If the Sensing areas are neglected, the ENTP may tend to not take care of details in their life. If the Feeling part of themself is neglected, the ENTP may not value other people's input enough, or may become overly harsh and aggressive. 

Under stress, the ENTP may lose their ability to generate possibilities, and become obsessed with minor details. These details may seem to be extremely important to the ENTP, but in reality are usually not important to the big picture. 

In general, ENTPs are upbeat visionaries. They highly value knowledge, and spend much of their lives seeking a higher understanding. They live in the world of possibilities, and become excited about concepts, challenges and difficulties. When presented with a problem, they're good at improvising and quickly come up with a creative solution. Creative, clever, curious, and theoretical, ENTPs have a broad range of possibilities in their lives.


----------



## WasDecimated

Originally Posted by Decimated


> I disagree with this too. You are assuming that the relationship failed. Relationships don't fail...people do. It only takes one person to destroy a marriage. Your statement also assumes that the marriage was bad or the BS was a main contributor to environment that forced the WS to cheat. I realize that no marriage is perfect but some marriages really are good and cheating happens in good marriages as much as bad ones. Regardless, the WS can become hell bent on destroying a marriage based on some irrational thought process that are no reflection on the BS or their history together.



Originally Posted by Bibi1031


> No, no, and he!! no! Look at Dude007s explanation, it's spot on! By doing this you will begin to realize that indeed very subtle hints were there, but they were so insignificant you couldn't see them. Now this is where hindsight comes in and the TRUTH is revealed. Seek that truth by going over your life with her with a new perspective.


*Apparently you didn’t read what I wrote and were just looking for an opportunity to say "No, no, and he!! no!" As I already explained, I did that. Actually, I spent years thinking about it…and you’re wrong. There were NO signs. My X was the sanest person I had ever met until her parents died. It was a sudden change…not gradual. I am pretty perceptive and I was married to her for 16 years…you weren’t. I think I would know better than you. Why is it so hard for you to understand that sometimes people can and do change...rapidly, through no fault of the WS and yes, it was obviously the trigger.*



Bibi1031 said:


> If you would only find it in your heart to realize that your XWW is in huge turmoil, your heart will tug at you. She is human and she is lost. She may never stop being lost because she may never be able to look within herself to find what was really wrong with her and heal. She will walk this Earth wounded for a very, very long time.
> Bibi


*Walking this Earth wounded and in turmoil??? Lol!!! Are you serious? 

She isn’t wounded, she’s remorseless, carefree and having the time of her life partying and acting like a 20 year old and the best part...financially supported by me. She is a 40 something divorced MLC cliché who lied and cheated her way to being single. In the process, she destroyed the lives of my family and our children and all without warning. 

You think I should have sympathy and shed a tear for anyone who nuked their marriage like that, nuts or not?

In the end, we are responsible for our own choices, and the consequences.

Right now I chose to remain bitter towards her. I don't want to get over it too soon. Getting over this magnitude of betrayal too quickly is not healthy in my opinion. I will get sick of it soon and discard the anger but until then...*


----------



## WasDecimated

Back to the the OP's question.

There is a lot to get over, lying, betrayal, writing a big check once a month...ya, it's a lot. 

Time and distance are your best friends. As time goes by the anger will naturally dull and hopefully fade away. I was divorced 20 years ago from a woman who I was married to for one year. She cheated on me with a co-worker. At the time, I was devastated. Now, I feel nothing. It completely faded with time. It helped that I after the divorce was final, I never saw her again.

Limit contact. I had to flat out tell my XWW to stop calling and texting me and only if its about the kids. 

Don't see her. Just seeing my XWW sets me back emotionally. I avoid this at all cost.

Discover yourself again. Find new or old hobbies and activities that you enjoy and dive in. Find a new focus in life and become a better you. Occupy your mind with healthy, constructive thoughts. Move forward emotionally.

Get out and make new or spend time with old friends. This is something that you would do within your own time frame. Everyone is different. I took about a 6 months until I started to get out and have fun with friends again.

Start dating again. Be careful with this one and take it slow. You've got to be ready or it will actually set you back. When you find the next and hopefully last right one, Your anger for your current X will quickly fade. 

In the end, don't force it to go away. That wouldn't be healthy. It may take years but you will get over it in your own time. Good luck my friend.


----------



## caliguy2349

Decimated said:


> Originally Posted by Decimated
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Bibi1031
> 
> 
> *Apparently you didn’t read what I wrote and were just looking for an opportunity to say "No, no, and he!! no!" As I already explained, I did that. Actually, I spent years thinking about it…and you’re wrong. There were NO signs. My X was the sanest person I had ever met until her parents died. It was a sudden change…not gradual. I am pretty perceptive and I was married to her for 16 years…you weren’t. I think I would know better than you. Why is it so hard for you to understand that sometimes people can and do change...rapidly, through no fault of the WS and yes, it was obviously the trigger.*
> 
> 
> 
> *Walking this Earth wounded and in turmoil??? Lol!!! Are you serious?
> 
> She isn’t wounded, she’s remorseless, carefree and having the time of her life partying and acting like a 20 year old and the best part...financially supported by me. She is a 40 something divorced MLC cliché who lied and cheated her way to being single. In the process, she destroyed the lives of my family and our children and all without warning.
> 
> You think I should have sympathy and shed a tear for anyone who nuked their marriage like that, nuts or not?
> 
> In the end, we are responsible for our own choices, and the consequences.
> 
> Right now I chose to remain slightly bitter towards her. I don't want to get over it too soon. Getting over this magnitude of betrayal too quickly is not healthy in my opinion. I will get sick of it soon and discard the anger but until then...*




I think part of the problem is that certain things have become ingrained in Western culture.

In many nations, not just Islamic ones, people are put in prison for adultery.. in the USA, the stigma has been removed, and it is still the guy's fault somehow..

That's why when a woman cheats we hear things like "Well it takes 2 people to ruin the marriage", or "She must be lost and hurt, feel sorry for her" , "What can you learn from this" etc. The white knight syndrome.. Women have no fault..

Imagine for a second if I cheated, left my wife for a younger woman, and I was able to keep the children while my wife paid me spousal support, child support, and I kept the house..

Nobody would be telling her "Aww,feel sorry for him.. In the mean time think of how you could have been a better wife"

Marriage is probably wonderful, but with state involvement it seems to have become too skewed in favor of women..Which is why 70% of divorces are inititaed by women, and often times there is another man in the picture.


----------



## Dude007

ANGER, then

Next comes depression. *The feelings of loss and fear can be extreme but they serve a key purpose. They are emotions turned in on the Self. They force you to look at yourself, to face the aloneness, to confront the type of relationship you both created in the marriage, and to take responsibility for your part and stop laying all the blame on your spouse. This is the part of the journey where there is the most growth, if you allow it. *

After you have been able to express your feelings and grieve, you may come to the ending with a sense of quiet expectation. The future may be uncertain but the trust in yourself that you have gained from having made it through the passage will give you a growing sense of confidence in your ability to create the life you want for yourself (and your children). 

Surviving Divorce: The Grieving Process


----------



## Bibi1031

Decimated said:


> Originally Posted by Decimated
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Bibi1031
> 
> 
> *Walking this Earth wounded and in turmoil??? Lol!!! Are you serious?
> 
> She isn’t wounded, she’s remorseless, carefree and having the time of her life partying and acting like a 20 year old and the best part...financially supported by me. She is a 40 something divorced MLC cliché who lied and cheated her way to being single. In the process, she destroyed the lives of my family and our children and all without warning.
> 
> You think I should have sympathy and shed a tear for anyone who nuked their marriage like that, nuts or not?
> 
> 
> Yup, she is still self medicating. So she left you right after "the trigger". In a way, she did you a favor. You didn't have to go crazy thinking WTF is wrong with my wife? How can I fix this? How can I make her understand that I love her and want the best for her and our family? She spared you so much grief...I was not that lucky.
> 
> In the end, we are responsible for our own choices, and the consequences.
> 
> Yes, yes and he!! yes! :grin2:
> 
> Right now I chose to remain bitter towards her. I don't want to get over it too soon. Getting over this magnitude of betrayal too quickly is not healthy in my opinion. I will get sick of it soon and discard the anger but until then...*
> 
> *It took me 10 years to achieve this. I walk slow when I heal.*




Bibi


----------



## LBHmidwest

caliguy2349 said:


> As of 3 weeks ago i told her not to call or text anymore unless an emergency. I told her to email anything child related we need to discuss. She seemed offended..
> 
> What she started doing (while 7 months pregnant), was sending photos corresponding to the exact date in our past.. So for example aug 25, she would send photos from aug 25 2014, 2013, 2012, etc, and then comment how she was happy back then etc..
> 
> As for pick ups I switched this to the target next to my house as I do not want her at or near my house.. This also offended her, and she tries to say THAT bothers our son.. Although he never said a word to me.. As if now I am responsible for hurting him in some way...


You'll be amazed at how much the kid's tell her the opposite of what you think. SOME actually true, but mostly it's alllllllllll cover.

If they say it it's true! They really think this.


----------



## caliguy2349

I guess right now I am scared. 

I mean at least if I was a drug addict, and my wife left me, I would know what to fix. 

Girls I have dated all wanted to get married. Unfortunately at this point I am thinking "user". 

Before my first marriage I was naieve. Now I wonder if I will be able to actually trust again??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bibi1031

caliguy2349 said:


> I think part of the problem is that certain things have become ingrained in Western culture.
> 
> *Yes.*
> 
> In many nations, not just Islamic ones, people are put in prison for adultery.,
> 
> *I'm glad to have been born and live in the good ole USof A. because I wouldn't want for my daughter who messed up to go to prison for being human and because this was one of my XHs ripple effects of his midlife crisis. That would not be fair for MY kid. *
> 
> 
> That's why when a woman cheats we hear things like "Well it takes 2 people to ruin the marriage", or "She must be lost and hurt, feel sorry for her" , "What can you learn from this" etc. The white knight syndrome.. Women have no fault..
> 
> *Now, that's not true. Both men and women cheat because they are selfish and human.*
> 
> Imagine for a second if I cheated, left my wife for a younger woman, and I was able to keep the children while my wife paid me spousal support, child support, and I kept the house..
> 
> *I totally agree. Divorce sUcks for men in general. They do get the short end of the stick.*
> 
> Nobody would be telling her "Aww,feel sorry for him.. In the mean time think of how you could have been a better wife"
> 
> *You do need to think how you can be a better partner regardless of whether you were the left behind or the leaver.*
> 
> Marriage is probably wonderful, but with state involvement it seems to have become too skewed in favor of women..Which is why 70% of divorces are inititaed by women, and often times there is another man in the picture.
> 
> *Now this is just crazy thinking. Divorce is initiated by the person that needs to protect themselves, their property and the children if there are any.*



Bibi


----------



## caliguy2349

Wait.. First you said :


"I totally agree. Divorce sUcks for men in general. They do get the short end of the stick."

Then you said: 

'Now this is just crazy thinking. Divorce is initiated by the person that needs to protect themselves, their property and the children if there are any.'

So you feel women knowing the probable outcome of a divorce,(men getting the short end of the stick as you stated) has absolutely no relation to their decisions?

Trust me.. My wife didn't need to protect herself , the property, or my son.. She felt the grass would be greener, cheated, and thought she would be rich. She knew she would keep the kid, and get paid..


----------



## Dude007

If you don't grieve properly, you will never trust again because it's always all their fault. Make sense?


----------



## Bibi1031

caliguy2349 said:


> Wait.. First you said :
> 
> 
> "I totally agree. Divorce sUcks for men in general. They do get the short end of the stick."
> 
> *Yes, emphasis on "Men in General" not just men who got cheated on by their crazy wives.*
> 
> Then you said:
> 
> 'Now this is just crazy thinking. Divorce is initiated by the person that needs to protect themselves, their property and the children if there are any.'
> 
> *I was thinking about ME among many others and not just about crazy wives that cheat caliguy. *
> 
> So you feel women knowing the probable outcome of a divorce,(men getting the short end of the stick as you stated) has absolutely no relation to their decisions?
> 
> *I was thinking in reference to my two poor brothers that got divorced and it wasn't fair for them or any other men "in general".*
> 
> Trust me.. My wife didn't need to protect herself , the property, or my son.. She felt the grass would be greener, cheated, and thought she would be rich. She knew she would keep the kid, and get paid..
> 
> *You know her better than me. It's the generalizations I saw as crazy talk because it is. The 70% of women filing for divorce Caliguy were not like your wife. *



Bibi


----------



## TeddieG

Decimated said:


> I Disagree. This is not always the case. My XWW completely changed right after her parents died. Within about 3 months she became a different person. Her main goal in life was now to go out drinking and partying. She started spending huge amounts of money, lying about it as well as other things, and eventually cheating with an old school friend from facebook. I have cards and notes that she gave me just before this happened where she tells me how much she loves me and thanks God for putting me in her life. We had also just came home from a fabulous trip together. There were no warnings for me. I was constantly being reassured that she loved me and she was happy. The only subtle hints were not so subtle and only became visible after her change.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this too. You are assuming that the relationship failed. Relationships don't fail...people do. It only takes one person to destroy a marriage. Your statement also assumes that the marriage was bad or the BS was a main contributor to environment that forced the WS to cheat. I realize that no marriage is perfect but some marriages really are good and cheating happens in good marriages as much as bad ones. Regardless, the WS can become hell bent on destroying a marriage based on some irrational thought process that are no reflection on the BS or their history together.
> 
> When I think back to what I did wrong in my marriage, nothing of significance stands out, certainly nothing that would warrant the equivalent of a marital nuclear detonation as a justified response. I was honest, loving, giving, devoted, hard working, strong, sensitive...etc. When I asked my XWW what I did to deserve this? It took her a couple days to come up with any answers. The best she could come up with was, years earlier, I didn't take her to some BBQ she wanted to go to and I didn't have enough friends and go out with them enough...really?
> 
> Sorry, The resentment for XWW's cheating and destruction of our marriage and family will never go away. I well always carry a degree of anger because of this.


I agree. When my h had his kidney stone episode, and the doctor was so horribly inept with the stent in h's private part (and even worse taking it out), h withdrew and got quiet. I thought I was giving him space, and I guess looking back I somehow thought I could have come up with the magic words to get him to open up. He gave the I love you but I'm not in love with you speech in mid-June and on July 4 he confessed to infidelity, and two weeks later he was calling me up blubbering into the phone saying how sorry he was, how I didn't deserve this, that I had done nothing to cause it. And then since April of this year he has said repeatedly I didn't do anything wrong, there was nothing to forgive, and in July he was blubbering about how sorry he was for ALL of the events of the past 7 years. And in August he was back in touch with OW after significant surgery, and again after my mother's funeral. My h doesn't do aging and mortality well, and OW is his bandaid every time he has to confront a health issue or a death. It's all in him, and he knows it. And I feel sorry for him that he can't find a better way to handle it, but he's made his bed now. At some point before he dies I hope he gets healthy, but it won't be with me. I'm not making excuses for his behavior. I'm just acknowledging that the source of it is in him, and wasn't in our marriage, even if it wasn't perfect (and he might have done it even if it was).


----------



## Dude007

Again, no one is at fault for their spouses affair, but in everything in life there are lessons to be learned and room for growth. Certainly we can find the areas where we could self reflect and be a better spouse. That's our choice to be better prepared for next relationship even if they do the same damn thing. Just like Peyton manning he was badass for years but still knows where he could have improved


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## caliguy2349

Well 70 percent is a fact, not a generalization. 

The fact that they keep the kids and get child support/alimony in the vast majority of cases is also a fact. 

Cheating no longer really matters at court. Also a fact. 

Calling it "crazy talk" really means nothing. Just a way to discredit someone in a rude way. It's not fact. Not logic. 

If we want equality, and obviously both men and women can work these days, then divorce should be simple. Both go their own ways, both work, both pay 50/50. 

When this happens watch the rate of women filing for divorce plummet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rowan

caliguy2349 said:


> Well 70 percent is a fact, not a generalization.
> 
> The fact that they keep the kids and get child support/alimony in the vast majority of cases is also a fact.
> 
> Cheating no longer really matters at court. Also a fact.
> 
> Calling it "crazy talk" really means nothing. Just a way to discredit someone in a rude way. It's not fact. Not logic.
> 
> If we want equality, and obviously both men and women can work these days, then divorce should be simple. Both go their own ways, both work, both pay 50/50.
> 
> When this happens watch the rate of women filing for divorce plummet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



With no offense intended, it sounds like you're full-swing into the 'Womenz Be Evul' stage of male post-divorce grief. Some guys get out of this fairly quickly. Some linger for a while. Some stay there, bitter and angry, for life. The good news is that you get to be the one to decide which group you fall into. 

Look, plenty of women don't screw their husband over in divorce settlements. Many states do not consider assets owned prior to marriage, or inherited even after it, to be marital assets so those aren't divided in a divorce. Many jurisdictions have a general default of 50/50 custody. Many also do not reward alimony at all, unless it's remedial (fixed amount/time) to allow for a former SAHM to train for a job. And many women don't push for more than is fair and equitable - because they aren't greedy, evil or hateful, or maybe (as in my case) because they don't even care to do so. 

If anyone has the right to be angry, resentful and bitter about a former spouse, I do. If anyone's experience might rightly result in bitterness toward the opposite sex, it's mine. But I have _chosen_ not to be angry, resentful or bitter. I've decided that my ex-husband doesn't deserve to take up any more of my life. Hating him is a waste of me. And, that, I will not allow. 

So, look at yourself. Not for any blame for your ex-wife's choices, but for ways you can make yourself better. Be a better person for yourself. Choose to heal. Choose to not let her push your buttons or control your emotions. Choose to be one of the men who moves past the resentment and bitterness to figure out how to have a whole and healthy life that doesn't revolve around hating your ex-wife. Because as long as your life revolves around resenting her, then your life still revolves around_ her_. Does she deserve that much power over you?


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## Dude007

Rowan u just flat out rock


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## GusPolinski

caliguy2349 said:


> And my biggest source of anger is towards this man. The man who actually sent my wife tens of tjousands of dollars after knowing her for a week. I wish she would have married anyone but him. But this is the man who is now the "step father". He did his best to destroy my life and my sons life.


Have you considered the very real possibility that a) they'd known each other for much longer than a week by the time that they supposedly "just met" and b) this wasn't the first time that they'd been away together on vacation?


----------



## GusPolinski

Dude007 said:


> Start remembering the entire marriage and focus on what YOU did wrong in the relationship. Do not re-write, take the hit as u remember all u have done wrong. This doesn't excuse the affair but the resentment will drop fast!! We all have some fault and blame in a failed relationship. This is an integral part of the process Dude


Sometimes the only "blame" that a BS bears for his or her "failed relationship" is that he or she chose to enter into a relationship w/ the WS in the first place.


----------



## caliguy2349

Rowan said:


> With no offense intended, it sounds like you're full-swing into the 'Womenz Be Evul' stage of male post-divorce grief. Some guys get out of this fairly quickly. Some linger for a while. Some stay there, bitter and angry, for life. The good news is that you get to be the one to decide which group you fall into.
> 
> Look, plenty of women don't screw their husband over in divorce settlements. Many states do not consider assets owned prior to marriage, or inherited even after it, to be marital assets so those aren't divided in a divorce. Many jurisdictions have a general default of 50/50 custody. Many also do not reward alimony at all, unless it's remedial (fixed amount/time) to allow for a former SAHM to train for a job. And many women don't push for more than is fair and equitable - because they aren't greedy, evil or hateful, or maybe (as in my case) because they don't even care to do so.
> 
> If anyone has the right to be angry, resentful and bitter about a former spouse, I do. If anyone's experience might rightly result in bitterness toward the opposite sex, it's mine. But I have _chosen_ not to be angry, resentful or bitter. I've decided that my ex-husband doesn't deserve to take up any more of my life. Hating him is a waste of me. And, that, I will not allow.
> 
> So, look at yourself. Not for any blame for your ex-wife's choices, but for ways you can make yourself better. Be a better person for yourself. Choose to heal. Choose to not let her push your buttons or control your emotions. Choose to be one of the men who moves past the resentment and bitterness to figure out how to have a whole and healthy life that doesn't revolve around hating your ex-wife. Because as long as your life revolves around resenting her, then your life still revolves around_ her_. Does she deserve that much power over you?


Hey, that's very cute.. Sort of misspelled some words for effect, included words I never said... Very cute..Then chalked it up to just being "bitter and angry"..

I live in reality,so please tell me which stat I cited was incorrect.. Do women not file for divorce 70% of the time? How many men win custody battles? How many men get child support? 

Is it generally men who push to get married? Come on, join us in reality.


----------



## TeddieG

Actually, I was reading an article tonight in Forbes Magazine that at midlife, especially after 50, the majority of divorces filed are by men, leaving the spouse for another person. And the article was about the reality of splitting everything down the middle, having two households, two cell phone bills (and losing the discount), losing discounts on insurance, cutting retirement accounts in half . . .and that the majority of men who divorce for this reason remarry and the women divorced by these men remain single. And caliguy, I would argue that in the younger ranges, women often file for divorce because men have cheated and the women have to protect their financial situation. Before I came here I belonged to a forum briefly 7 years ago, for issues of midlife crisis, but it was primarily dominated by women whose h's had cheated on them and left them for another woman. Another forum for midlife was also populated almost entirely by women, with a handful of men whose spouses had cheated. A few brave souls, men all, were on that those forums to share their experience of cheating on their wives. All of this is just anecdotal of course. There is only one forum that I've found for men suffering from midlife crisis or the betrayal by their midlife crisis wives, and the latter were in a very small minority. But again, that's just midlife issues. That's not necessarily representative of all infidelity situations. In fact, I was stunned to come here and found out how common it is in general, not just in midlife crisis.


----------



## GusPolinski

Bananapeel said:


> You can't control what someone else does in life and no matter how much you improve there are no guarantees. However, if you better yourself it increases the attraction your partner has towards you because you increase your social rank and decreases the risk of an adverse event in your marriage. Think of it this way. On a scale of 1-10 let's say you are a 6 and yoour wife is a 7. The risk of her losing satisfaction and straying or finding fault in the relationship is much higher than if she is a 7 and you improve yourself and move up to an 8. In the latter situation she feels lucky to have you and that she got better than she deserved. Because of the imbalance she will try to win you and be less likely to do stupid stuff to chase you away. There are a lot of ways to increase your rank. Things like working out, becoming a better man/husband/father/boss/employee, being more attentive or exciting (or whatever else you can improve on), etc. all add points. While there are no guarantees in life you want your relationship balance to be one where she feels lucky to have you because it gives more marital satisfaction. You have the power to change and improve if you want to. It might not help with her but it will help you with future relationships.


It's worth nothing that this scale of which you speak is largely subjective. A given BS could very well be an "8" or "9" in his or her WS's eyes but a "6" or "7" to someone else. Or vice versa. Same goes for how the BS views the WS.

Anyway, let's say a guy is an "8" or "9" to his not-yet-wayward wife. Enter OM. Younger. Or older. More whimsical and spontaneous. Or more refined and reserved. Wealthier. More established. More handsome. Or whatever "-er" does it for the now-wayward wife.

All of a sudden, her husband falls a couple of notches on the scale in his WWs eyes. Where he's at doesn't matter so much as the fact that he's now -- again, according to his WW -- at least a notch or two (or more) *BEHIND* OM.

Still, I get what you're saying. _Do_ better. _Become_ better. _Be_ better.

Be so much better, in fact, that you eventually become someone whose time, attention, and consideration your WW could no longer reasonably attain.


----------



## Thundarr

caliguy2349 said:


> So it has been about 1 year since our separation, and 9 months since being officially divorced. My ex an I have a 4 yr old son.
> 
> She went on vacation, met a man, spent a week with him, and came back and said she wants a divorce..
> 
> Leading up to this I was a good provider, home every night, faithful, great father etc. But she wasn't happy enough, I suppose.
> 
> This man sent her large sums of money for the divorce, to get her own apartment etc. He knew she was married, knew we had a son etc.
> 
> So, she moved out, he moved to our city, they married, and she immediately became pregnant. She just gave birth to his child.
> 
> I still have to see her usually twice a week to exchange our son. She was texting me daily, started saying maybe we should not have divorced etc. (up until a couple of weeks ago while pregnant with his kid)
> 
> But the most irritating part is how she never apologized. She acts as if she did nothing wrong, and we should be great friends.. Never even said "I am sorry".
> 
> Even today, my son was crying during my drop off, as he didn't want to leave me.. Rips my heart out... How do I get over the resentment?


It's hard not to be pissed when you see your kids suffer; when you made a committment and the other person didn't hold to it; when you've been wronged with nil apology.

She wasn't worthy to be your wife or anyone's wife so you're lucky to be rid of her. Then again you're not really rid of her. Maybe she'll become a better mother than she has been. The key to getting past resentment is just to realize that she's flawed and you can't do anything about it. You have to be the guiding force in your son's life.


----------



## caliguy2349

Rowan said:


> Many jurisdictions have a general default of 50/50 custody.


 Hey sweetie, here are the facts..Just get irritated with the often repeated but false/misleading 50/50 statistical lie..

According to the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), nearly 75 percent of all child custody awards are made to the mother. Only about 10 percent of child custody awards are made to fathers. The rest of the child custody awards involve some sort of joint custody arrangement.

Recent Census Bureau child custody statistics also indicate that nearly 40 percent of all noncustodial fathers have no access to or visitation rights with their children.
Child Custody Statistics


----------



## caliguy2349

TeddieG said:


> Actually, I was reading an article tonight in Forbes Magazine that at midlife, especially after 50, the majority of divorces filed are by men, leaving the spouse for another person. And the article was about the reality of splitting everything down the middle, having two households, two cell phone bills (and losing the discount), losing discounts on insurance, cutting retirement accounts in half . . .and that the majority of men who divorce for this reason remarry and the women divorced by these men remain single. And caliguy, I would argue that in the younger ranges, women often file for divorce because men have cheated and the women have to protect their financial situation. Before I came here I belonged to a forum briefly 7 years ago, for issues of midlife crisis, but it was primarily dominated by women whose h's had cheated on them and left them for another woman. Another forum for midlife was also populated almost entirely by women, with a handful of men whose spouses had cheated. A few brave souls, men all, were on that those forums to share their experience of cheating on their wives. All of this is just anecdotal of course. There is only one forum that I've found for men suffering from midlife crisis or the betrayal by their midlife crisis wives, and the latter were in a very small minority. But again, that's just midlife issues. That's not necessarily representative of all infidelity situations. In fact, I was stunned to come here and found out how common it is in general, not just in midlife crisis.


Cool, can you include the link from Forbes?


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## Dude007

I say this dude is totally Entp w his argumentative nature when he came to us for advice. Rowan being at the top of the class, but hey let's quote stats. Ex bar plus or minus theta! Ha


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## Dude007

Of course I'm drinking and about to go see " the inter" w my wife n daughter


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## caliguy2349

Dude007 said:


> I say this dude is totally Entp w his argumentative nature when he came to us for advice. Rowan being at the top of the class, but hey let's quote stats. Ex bar plus or minus theta! Ha


intj..


----------



## Bibi1031

caliguy2349 said:


> Calling it "crazy talk" really means nothing. Just a way to discredit someone in a rude way. It's not fact. Not logic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I didn't mean it as an insult, just that your thinking is tainted due to your pain and therefore it's crazy talk. 

Nothing more, nothing less.

Bibi


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## Dude007

You are ****ting me??! I'm Entp thought for sho u were the same.


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## Dude007

The judging is what ran her off. No joke she was never good enough for you.


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## caliguy2349

Bibi1031 said:


> I didn't mean it as an insult, just that your thinking is tainted due to your pain and therefore it's crazy talk.
> 
> Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Bibi


Can you explain which part was "crazy talk"? Using facts or statistics?


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## caliguy2349

Dude007 said:


> You are ****ting me??! I'm Entp thought for sho u were the same.


INTJ.. Took that test for a job long ago, then took a few more times..


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## Dude007

My wife is isfj, a toxic mix for ENTP


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## Betrayedone

Dude007 said:


> I say this dude is totally Entp w his argumentative nature when he came to us for advice. Rowan being at the top of the class, but hey let's quote stats. Ex bar plus or minus theta! Ha


....sounds to me like he's got his stuff together.......


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## Dude007

I give Caliguy some latitude now that we know. That judging **** drives people away even if they themselves don't know why. Trust me i know


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## Dude007

Betrayed n stone, he's pissd at his ex for leaving and has absolutely no idea why. Yeah he's got his **** straight


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## Rowan

To the contrary - I do not dispute that women initiate the majority of divorces. Nor will I argue that many more men still pay child support than women because women are still more likely to be the primary custodial parent. 

Also, you are by your own admission angry and bitter. I'm not chalking anything up to that - it's just where you are right now. And that's fine. Totally normal and a stage of the grieving process. Everyone - even us women who initiate those 70% of divorces - goes through a lot of dark emotional space. It's just part of the deal when you've been betrayed.

What I do contend, however, is that becoming indignant about the state of modern divorce as a whole is unhelpful, and likely unhealthy, for you at this point. Your initial question was about how to get over the anger of your ex-wife's affair and the subsequent divorce. The answer to getting over those emotions is not to project those over a wider field. It's to realize that your anger is with _her_ and figure out ways to deal with that. One of the things that may help you is to know that not all women are like that. And that you actually have a great deal of control over your situation at this point. You can establish boundaries. You can foster your own healing. You can choose to behave in ways that promote your own good, while accepting that you cannot change her or the choices she made. 

If you wish to be angry about something, be angry about your ex-wife's behavior. How does it help you to project her poor behavior onto every other woman? I think a focus on the national divorce statistics is a distraction. It directs your anger away from where it belongs (your ex-wife) and away from where you might find healing (within yourself).


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## Bibi1031

caliguy2349 said:


> Using facts or statistics?


Neither!

Bibi


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## Dude007

Rowan, I bow down at your supernatural understanding of human emotions and relationships. It's that bada$$. I think ynot is your only contemporary who has a similar grasp. I hope you write books on the subject matter because you are beyond an expert. Dude


----------



## caliguy2349

Rowan said:


> To the contrary - I do not dispute that women initiate 70% of divorces. Nor will I argue that many more men still pay child support than women.
> 
> Also, you are by your own admission angry and bitter. I'm not chalking anything up to that - it's just where you are right now. And that's fine. Totally normal and a stage of the grieving process. Everyone - even us women who initiate those 70% of divorces - goes through a lot of dark emotional space. It's just part of the deal when you've been betrayed.
> 
> What I do contend, however, is that becoming indignant about the state of modern divorce as a whole is unhelpful, and likely unhealthy, for you at this point. Your initial question was about how to get over the anger of your ex-wife's affair and the subsequent divorce. The answer to getting over those emotions is not to project those over a wider field. It's to realize that your anger is with _her_ and figure out ways to deal with that. One of the things that may help you is to know that not all women are like that. And that you actually have a great deal of control over your situation at this point. You can establish boundaries. You can foster your own healing. You can choose to behave in ways that promote your own good, while accepting that you cannot change her or the choices she made.
> 
> If you wish to be angry about something, be angry about your ex-wife's behavior. How does it help you to project her poor behavior onto every other woman? I think a focus on the national divorce statistics is a distraction. It directs your anger away from where it belongs (your ex-wife) and away from where you might find healing (within yourself).


I understand.. But look at my POV, and what is the POV of many other men..

So, being a man, what is the advantage of marrying?? As opposed to living together.

I guess i am at an age where I see many friends going through the same, and the result is usually the same..

So, logically I think "Hey, if I marry again, why wouldn't the next woman do this too?"

Sure, you can say this is misogyny,or being bitter etc. But at the end of the day, it doesn't pay for men to divorce.. The cultural stigma is also removed from divorce which makes it more common. 

i mean you have people admitting "yeah guys get the short end of the stick in American divorce", but then call you bitter or angry for pointing out that women have an advantage in this way..

Instead of working and saving, they can marry and take what you work for in a divorce.


----------



## Bibi1031

TeddieG said:


> Actually, I was reading an article tonight in Forbes Magazine that at midlife, especially after 50, the majority of divorces filed are by men, leaving the spouse for another person. And the article was about the reality of splitting everything down the middle, having two households, two cell phone bills (and losing the discount), losing discounts on insurance, cutting retirement accounts in half . . .and that the majority of men who divorce for this reason remarry and the women divorced by these men remain single. And caliguy, I would argue that in the younger ranges, women often file for divorce because men have cheated and the women have to protect their financial situation. Before I came here I belonged to a forum briefly 7 years ago, for issues of midlife crisis, but it was primarily dominated by women whose h's had cheated on them and left them for another woman. Another forum for midlife was also populated almost entirely by women, with a handful of men whose spouses had cheated. A few brave souls, men all, were on that those forums to share their experience of cheating on their wives. All of this is just anecdotal of course. There is only one forum that I've found for men suffering from midlife crisis or the betrayal by their midlife crisis wives, and the latter were in a very small minority. But again, that's just midlife issues. That's not necessarily representative of all infidelity situations. In fact, I was stunned to come here and found out how common it is in general, not just in midlife crisis.



Me too!


----------



## caliguy2349

This is the reality for my ex wife, and many women..

So we meet, date, get married.. She is pregnant right away, so doesn't work and wants to be a stay at home mom..

This is fine with me, and it is "The man's job" to provide.

So for 5 years i work pay for everything, while she has lunch with friends, goes on vacations with me, eats out at restaurants etc,,

One day she "isn't happy". Cheats, and finds a guy who makes even more.. So we divorce, and i have to pay her 1,500 a month for next 16 years..

She remarries and is pregnant immediately.. Now once again, in a couple years, she can say "oh, I am not happy", and get 2,000 a month from this guy for 16 years...


So, she is getting $3500 a month , plus she was living 7 years bill free previously.. And of course she can marry again...Hmmm, think she would have worked hard to be living in nice homes and be driving new suv's???? HAHAH yeah right..befofe marriage she couldn't even afford to live on her own or have a car..


Many women view life like this, which is why they love the idea of modern day marriage...It is basically a no lose for them..Enjoy having kids, and at anytime they can walk away and get paid..


----------



## Nomorebeans

Yes, the laws favor women. In Florida, we still have Alimony For Life, though that's about to change.

I feel for you, Cali. My husband of 25 years left me for another woman in May. We have a 13-year-old son. Our uncontested Dissolution of Marriage that he filed so he could hurry up and move her down here from another state was final in July.

Here's how it went down.

October, 2014: He gives me the ILYBINILWY speech and says he thinks we should separate come the following June when our rental property, which used to be the house we lived in for 11 years and was the first house we bought together, would be vacated. This after never once saying anything about being unhappy in the marriage. I ask if there is someone else. He says no and acts offended that I would think so. He says there's no reason to rush into divorce. Let's just try separating for a while.

January, 2015: He announces he's been talking with a lawyer at his airline - he is an airline captain who makes more than twice as much as I do, even currently, as an IT Manager at a big corporation. He hands me the DissolutionSettlement they've drawn up to review. It's fair and favors me somewhat - it's a 58/42 split, and it provides for joint custody, but with me having our son with me the majority of the time because of his job. It does not include alimony or any mention of his airline pension. I ask again if there is someone else. He denies it. Says he just wants "to get on with it."

February 20, 2015: DDay. She texts him the following one Friday night after 11:00 when his smartphone is sitting between us on a couch after I've just come in from hearing a friend sing in a club for the evening: "Please don't call me tomorrow. I'm too upset with you to speak with you right now." I confront him about it. Through trickle-truth over the next several days, I come to find out he met her last September when back in his home town for a funeral. Yes, AT the funeral. He went back to spend five days with her in December, lying about where he was. And now he wants a divorce so he can be with her. She is a widow, (at least it wasn't her husband's funeral) so she only managed to blow up one family.

May, 2015: He moves out a month "early" because I can't stand having him in the house anymore. She comes down for a week the next week to have a Fvck-A-Thon with him.

July, 2015: The divorce is final. I never asked for alimony, even though he is the one who left, and for an OW, and he continues to make more than twice as much as I do. I did get it in writing that he will pay 100% for all expenses for our son's college, 100% for all medical and dental, including insurance, and the maximum child support based on our 80/20 custody split. And I did get the far better of the two houses, because it is the family home in which our son grew up. And I did get everything resolved with his pension so that I will receive the allotment I'm entitled to, the entirety of which he earned while we were married.

September, 2015: He moves the CSWB (use your imagination just a little bit as to what that stands for) down here, 10 minutes away, and takes my son to meet and have lunch with her two days after she arrives.

He would have passed her off as someone he just met after he moved out if I hadn't caught them. He has confessed to that.

He has also apologized profusely for "the way he went about it." It doesn't help. First, it's not remorse borne from compassion for my feelings. As others have said, he's sorry he got caught. And he's sorry he has to look in the mirror and face the POS looking back at him. He is not sorry he hurt me. Why would he be? He disconnected from me completely without ever telling me, and then when he didn't care anymore, he was free to start fvcking the first desperately lonely and pathetic woman to throw herself at him. Yes, I'm looking at you, Janet. To say I hate you is the understatement of the year. But I hate my ex more. You didn't make vows to me in front of all our family and friends and God to love and honor me for better and for worse, forsaking all others. You're a true piece of sh!t, don't get me wrong, but you didn't break any vows to me. You dishonor all women by throwing this one under the bus. But you didn't break my heart. He did.

Not trying to one-up you here, Cali. Trying to show you the parallels in our stories. In bitterness, I probably have you beat. OK, clearly I do. But we both have walk-away spouses who have made our lives seemingly much harder than they used to be. He thought nothing would change for me much because he's "always been gone half the time anyway." He thought we could remain "the best of friends" - well, by all means, let's all join hands and sing! He thought I wouldn't be surprised at all that he wanted to leave. He thought id be "fine" because I "have my career, am in great shape, and shouldn't have any trouble on The Dating Scene."

I feel lost. I'm trying to focus on my son first and my job second, but feel like I'm failing at both.

Sorry to be rambling. Just wanting you to know I get your bitterness about your ex seeming to make out like a bandit. I think that comes from the anger that she seems to be experiencing zero consequences for her actions. She thinks she can have two men in her life, and between the two of you, she's 100% fulfilled, because by God, that's what she deserves and feels entitled to. My ex is trying to do the same. He texts me now with the minutae of his day to day life and thinks I am his counselor and confidant. Nope. He fired me from that job.

Time to cut them off, Cali. Here's how they will start to feel the consequences of their actions: When all they're left with is that one other person they chose, who, like any one person, will never fully satisfy them because they will always believe they deserve more.


----------



## Thundarr

caliguy2349 said:


> I understand.. But look at my POV, and what is the POV of many other men..
> 
> So, being a man, what is the advantage of marrying?? As opposed to living together.
> 
> I guess i am at an age where I see many friends going through the same, and the result is usually the same..
> 
> So, logically I think "Hey, if I marry again, why wouldn't the next woman do this too?"
> 
> Sure, you can say this is misogyny,or being bitter etc. But at the end of the day, it doesn't pay for men to divorce.. The cultural stigma is also removed from divorce which makes it more common.
> 
> i mean you have people admitting "yeah guys get the short end of the stick in American divorce", but then call you bitter or angry for pointing out that women have an advantage in this way..
> 
> Instead of working and saving, they can marry and take what you work for in a divorce.


Marriage is easy to get into but can be expensive (usually for guys) to get out of. I dated my first wife six months before marriage which ended six years later. I decided that marriage wasn't for me any more.

At the end of the day though marriage isn't evil. Sure I waited seven years the second time around to marry but my wife to too good to let go.


----------



## caliguy2349

Nomorebeans said:


> He thought we could remain "the best of friends" - well, by all means, let's all join hands and sing! He thought I wouldn't be surprised at all that he wanted to leave. He thought id be "fine" because I "have my career, am in great shape, and shouldn't have any trouble on The Dating Scene."
> 
> I feel lost. I'm trying to focus on my son first and my job second, but feel like I'm failing at both.
> 
> Sorry to be rambling. Just wanting you to know I get your bitterness about your ex seeming to make out like a bandit. I think that comes from the anger that she seems to be experiencing zero consequences for her actions. She thinks she can have two men in her life, and between the two of you, she's 100% fulfilled, because by God, that's what she deserves and feels entitled to. My ex is trying to do the same. He texts me now with the minutae of his day to day life and thinks I am his counselor and confidant. Nope. He fired me from that job.
> 
> Time to cut them off, Cali. Here's how they will start to feel the consequences of their actions: When all they're left with is that one other person they chose, who, like any one person, will never fully satisfy them because they will always believe they deserve more.


Exactly.. You get what I am saying.. Like my ex seems to think we will be some great friends/co-parenting buddies who are close forever. To text daily, share thoughts and feelings etc.

I always notice when her new hubby is working for months at a time far away, her texts, calls, emails ramp up.. Like I am still her buddy/husband..

I feel much better laying down the boundaries...Wish i did it sooner.


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## Rowan

My idiot ex-husband thought we could be close friends and spent over a year after our divorce was final pursuing me, ardently, to reconcile. This, after I divorced him for being not just a cheater, but a double-digits serial cheater. 

That particular delusion - that their exes still like them enough to be friends - seems to be common with cheaters in particular. I think they just so deeply need to think of themselves as good people, that they require even those they cheated on to affirm that for them. As long as we're playing nice, they can continue to delude themselves that they didn't do anything wrong. SMH


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## LBHmidwest

caliguy2349 said:


> i think part of the problem is that certain things have become ingrained in western culture.
> 
> In many nations, not just islamic ones, people are put in prison for adultery.. In the usa, the stigma has been removed, and it is still the guy's fault somehow..
> 
> That's why when a woman cheats we hear things like "well it takes 2 people to ruin the marriage", or "she must be lost and hurt, feel sorry for her" , "what can you learn from this" etc. The white knight syndrome.. Women have no fault..
> 
> Imagine for a second if i cheated, left my wife for a younger woman, and i was able to keep the children while my wife paid me spousal support, child support, and i kept the house..
> 
> Nobody would be telling her "aww,feel sorry for him.. In the mean time think of how you could have been a better wife"
> 
> marriage is probably wonderful, but with state involvement it seems to have become too skewed in favor of women..which is why 70% of divorces are inititaed by women, and often times there is another man in the picture.


f

n

a


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## 2ntnuf

These are two of the best quotes I read in your thread. I wasn't going to post, but your thread hit me in the gut. There is quite a bit of confusion here and back and forth with who is right. Even my input isn't necessarily right. You have to decide what is right for you.

Rowan was answering another poster who commented about maybe needing an apology. Rowan is correct here. Just an apology would never satisfy your anger or the pain you are going through. Your ex would have to do things to make up for what you believe she did to you. 





Rowan said:


> Having been there, let me say that an apology really doesn't do nearly as much as you probably think it will when it comes to helping you get over resentment for a cheating spouse or former spouse. "I'm sorry", once you get it, really just doesn't mean all that much. Sorry for what? For cheating, for lying, for betrayal, for blowing up your marriage, for costing you years of your life, for making you feel like the crazy one, for destroying your family, for not being the person you thought they were, for not being the person they pretended to be? Somehow, once you really start to think about all the damage they did, "sorry" just doesn't really cut it. Particularly with an unrepentant person who hasn't actually changed. Them doing the hard work to change themselves and be a better human being might help curb some of the resentment. An apology, without that work, usually won't.
> 
> My suggestion is to try to get to a place of acceptance. This is who they are. They could apologize, but it wouldn't do any good and wouldn't change anything or undo any of the hurt. And, chances are, they're mostly sorry for getting caught or that they're unhappy with the consequences of the choices they made - not for hurting you. Once you reach acceptance, the apathy starts to set in, and the resentment fades because you no longer care enough to go to the trouble of resenting them.



She had to justify her actions with things she perceived were wrongs. That doesn't mean you did anything that heinous. You could be the man many of the women here were looking for in a husband and didn't get. For your wife, at that time, you were not the man she wanted. Yes, it's likely she was triggered into looking for someone or open to advances because her father died. That is tough to go through. So, it's likely she didn't get the kind of reaction from you she needed....maybe. How would you know if she didn't tell you? You wouldn't know what she needed. You could only make semi-blind attempts to console her. No guarantees of anything working you might have attempted. 

Acceptance is the key, but it takes a while to get to the point of understanding what that looks like for you. It takes time to get past that nagging feeling that you should not love her. It's illogical and you can't stop it. Don't try. Deal with the pain in a healthy way, like exercising and meeting up with old or new friends. Find out who you are. 

Someone posted something about you being two and now one. It's reasonable to consider that point of view. When together, you both compromised on many things. Now, you don't have to compromise with a wife. You have to compromise with the courts, who you feel you get very little from in return. You have to believe that you are doing your part for the children when you are paying that support. You are. It takes time to let that settle in. 

Again, it's acceptance, but if I read you right, you need proof and logical conclusion. It's tough to find logic in those laws. They are based on beliefs. They are based on what "should" be, not on proof of what is needed. You can't ask for an accounting of monies spent. You can't pay what you know is proper. You have to pay for unforeseen expenses before they occur, due to the trouble it would cause for your ex to get more from you for things that are not basic needs. 

However, it's your children. They will remember you for what you do for them, not the money you give to her. They won't know what she is getting, only what she gives them. It won't be your money that buys them that. It will be her's. You will have to spend a little more when they are there to let them know you love them. Do things with them and meet some of their needs, like some clothing, tennis shoes and so forth. Keep stuff at your place. Yeah, it sucks even more because you are already putting out for expenses. They don't know that. 


Next, I think Jung is telling you that you need to learn who you are now, the guy you have become. You are not the same single guy who dated before marriage. You are somewhat like him, but now there is more to you. Being that you are not compromising with a wife, you don't know who you are and maybe you don't even know what to do with yourself. Figure that out. Try things on your own or with a friend or two. Do things you thought you might like, but you weren't that interested in. Figure out who you are today. You will find you like yourself a whole lot more that you thought. 



Jung_admirer said:


> When faced with an unremorseful betrayer you have two options:
> 1) Revenge or vengeance
> 2) Mercy and grace
> .
> Forgiveness requires both mercy and grace. You must make a choice with the understanding that your choice shows who you are and says nothing about your wayward partner. No one can or should advocate this choice for you. Mercy & grace are the highest of all human virtues, which is why they are so difficult to cultivate and practice. To be certain most people regard mercy as weakness or fearfulness. You must decide who you are and what you stand for.
> .
> Your partner appears to want to reconcile such that you remain on friendly terms. A purely selfish act that you are justified in rejecting. Consequence is not the same thing as punishment.


Rowan and Jung, forgive me where I have misinterpreted. 

All cheaters want to believe they did it for a reason. They likely figure their spouse is hurting badly. They have to know that what they did was worth it. Justification is the only means, even when a spouse actually does something that is really bad. The issue is that they were likely more susceptible to flirtation from a stranger. They were more open to sharing because they believed through justifications, it was the only thing they could do to feel better. Anything else would have prolonged the misery for them. 

One thing, you or I don't really have the right to say what they were feeling. We can't know. All I know is, they had other choices. They knew they had them, too. They just didn't want to hurt any more. 

That doesn't make infidelity right. It actually makes them look worse. You had the strength of your convictions. They did not. Pity would be more appropriate than anger, but not always the best choice in the long term. 

One day you will hear her voice, listen to her words....and a light will come on. You will know she is no longer who you married. She is and may never have been the right woman for you. Those chemicals released with sex and the feelings of love we get by being close to someone can really and truly make us see them as someone they are not. Once those are truly gone, there is no hate, there is only indifference, or as I think Rowan stated, apathy. You will not want to be with her and you wouldn't try. You will see all her "warts", and know her for who she really is. That's when you will feel a little sorry for her new man. He doesn't know who she is and the justification she uses on you will only cause "blindness" in subsequent relationships. 

Be sure, she has as much work to do as you, but just in different areas and she isn't as well off. You are working on yours just by talking out what you don't understand and what you know through those statistics and logical conclusions. 

Someone said it takes time. It does. Sometimes a heap of time. Depends on the individual. Hang in there. You are correct in what you are finding out. The more you look, the more confused you may get and the longer it will take to get to the point of acceptance. You will be much wiser for the effort, but let go of as much as you can as quickly as you can. You'll be alright. You will. Good luck.


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## Nomorebeans

Rowan said:


> That particular delusion - that their exes still like them enough to be friends - seems to be common with cheaters in particular. I think they just so deeply need to think of themselves as good people, that they require even those they cheated on to affirm that for them. As long as we're playing nice, they can continue to delude themselves that they didn't do anything wrong.


This is EXACTLY it.

And Cali, I'm with you again. I didn't lay down boundaries for way too long with my ex, and then wondered why I continuously felt like hammered sh!t. I rationalized/made excuses that it must really p!ss the OW off that we still get along and he still texts me regularly on a friendly basis. It was really just me hanging on to a ghost, because the fear of the unknown seemed stronger than the need to stop the sh!tty way I felt.

When you keep doing the same thing again and again, expecting a different outcome, it's the very definition of insanity, unless it shows you that it's time to try something different.

You're much further along in this process than you think you are, Cali.


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## Dude007

Why try and figure out what they thought, why, ow, om, it's all unknowable and frankly a waste of time? Work on urself!!! They didn't cheat on you per se they cheated on themselves. They robbed themselves of their absolute sanity. If you could be in their head you would be scared ****less. They are destined for dementia. Dude


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## Marc878

caliguy2349 said:


> Exactly.. You get what I am saying.. Like my ex seems to think we will be some great friends/co-parenting buddies who are close forever. To text daily, share thoughts and feelings etc.
> 
> I always notice when her new hubby is working for months at a time far away, her texts, calls, emails ramp up.. Like I am still her buzddy/husband..
> 
> I feel much better laying down the boundaries...Wish i did it sooner.


All you have to do is send the messages to her new husband and ask him if he could get her to please stop. Bwahahahahahaha!!!!! You get to stick the fork in him a little. Revenge is sweet for the sole. DO IT!!!


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## caliguy2349

Should this bother me?

My son has already been going to pre school for 2 years and is only 4. (she worked at a pre school and he went for free)

So, now she just had her new baby, and signed him up for another pre school..

We talked, and we agreed on the school, which was a basic pre school.

Now, one week before he starts she calls to tell me she found a "better" school. And signed him up there..

I asked for the website, and it is a Baptist pre school. Neither of us are Baptist. I am not religious, and she is catholic, but never goes to church.

In my mind, I do not want my son going to some fundamentalist church pre school. I have no idea what they will be teaching him about there..I don't think my ex wife put much thought into it, other than it is close to her house, and had availability..

Is this something that should bother me? it bothers me because:

A. I don't want him being brainwashed.
B. It seems on big decisions regarding my son she ALWAYS does what is easier for her, then spins it to "it is good for my son"But it seems she never really thinks ahead or researches what she is even doing with him.


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## Marc878

I wouldn't be to worried about the pre school. Most follow the same non denominational program. I've seen, been to many. 

At that age they aren't going to teach them much.

As long as it's clean and well staffed he should be fine. I'd bet most of the parents aren't affiliated with the church anyway.


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## Bibi1031

Marc878 said:


> All you have to do is send the messages to her new husband and ask him if he could get her to please stop. Bwahahahahahaha!!!!! You get to stick the fork in him a little. Revenge is sweet for the sole. DO IT!!!


I shouldn't like your train of thought, but it made me laugh. The heck with it, I loved it! 

:smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup:

Bibi


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## caliguy2349

Bibi1031 said:


> I shouldn't like your train of thought, but it made me laugh. The heck with it, I loved it!
> 
> :smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup: :smthumbup:
> 
> Bibi


Oh , i was going to... Still thinking about it


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## Bibi1031

caliguy2349 said:


> Oh , i was going to... Still thinking about it


That's a nice ACE under your sleeve, take it out whenever you need too>

feeling really naughty :grin2:

Bibi


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## Marc878

All you have to do is send the messages to her new husband and ask him if he could get her to please stop. Bwahahahahahaha!!!!! You get to stick the fork in him a little. Revenge is sweet for the sole. DO IT!!!

Well to be honest that would be plan B.

Plan A - if she's talking, texting that much you could seduce her and give the OM a taste of what you had. It would be more enjoyable. Pics of her naked would add a certain ambience. I mean cheaters always cheat so........

Plan C would be plan B but with a note of, I've had that and it wasn't that great so can you take care of it a little better?

Somebody stop me I'm on a roll!!!!!


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## Bibi1031

Marc878 said:


> Well to be honest that would be plan B.
> 
> Plan A - if she's talking, texting that much you could seduce her and give the OM a taste of what you had. It would be more enjoyable. Pics of her naked would add a certain ambience. I mean cheaters always cheat so........


:rofl:

You're evil,

Bibi


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## Runs like Dog

Release your safety harness, climb out of that burning wreck and whistle along to the screams of the dying.


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## joannacroc

Not all of us are like that, I promise! 

My husband cheated, and I initiated divorce, but I am now receiving a minimal payment in child support and no spousal support, not because I couldn't have asked for it if I wanted to, but because I don't want to create bitterness that would effect our son. As it turns out, I get almost no child support, as instead of counting the amount of money I get for renting out an apartment I own by myself after paying maintenance fees and property taxes, the entire rental is counted, sort of artificially inflating my income and making his seem way smaller than mine. At some point, you just have to shrug it off as the cost of ridding yourself of a cheater.

A brief word on child support: this is to contribute to child related costs during the hours when she has the child, which if she has him the majority of the time, may be substantial. You get that child support isn't supposed to cover ALL child related costs, right? It's not intended to cover ALL clothing for example, or ALL shoes. My ex is under the same impression and won't buy our son any clothing or shoes, just food. Believe me, it gets expensive. The amount you quoted sounds huge to me - does this include spousal support or is that just the child support payment?

I'm sure you have now cooled off sufficiently to be slightly ashamed of using monikers like "sweetie" to female users who are trying to offer you guidance. You don't seem like a condescending person in general, just a fellow human being in a crappy place right now, which I can relate to. Hang in there.


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## Marc878

Bibi1031 said:


> :rofl:
> 
> You're evil,
> 
> Bibi


Bibi, I work very hard at getting even. It's why I get up in the mornings.

It's a labor of love &#55357;&#56846;


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## Sammy64

I found this here on TAM, and has helped me a lot, and i have incorporated into my life..... 

Live by the saying: Life gets easier once you accept an apology you never received!


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