# Me 60 M husband with my 55 F wife discovered her hidden relationship w x boyfriend



## honestman131 (Dec 26, 2014)

My wife and I in original marriage for 30 years. Grown children. We both believe in marriage, family, and faithful marital relationships.
We have had our ups and downs over the decades but got through everything ok....until now.
12 months ago I uncovered 33 recent emails between my wife and her first boyfriend from late teenage years. The emails referenced their current thoughts and feelings for each other from years ago: music, poetry, emotion, memories, experiences. The emails I discovered have been taking place secretly for the last 8 years. The content also references chat messages they used but were deleted. My wife gave him her phone number several times and encouraged him to call her, and stop by to visit when she is local. He lives in a different country than we do, and the communication increases when she is in that location to visit family 3 times a year. He is also married (happily?) for 25 plus years with kids and grandchildren.
She denied everything when I confronted her. But I had printed out the emails to show her so her denial stopped. She said it was innocent, and focused on remembrances that she would recall with him in the same way she would with a sibling or with an old female friend from college days. She says that she has not seen this person in over 30 years. She has been unclear how many times they spoken on the phone, indicating something less than 5 times over the years. Yet they were Facebook friends, and she would sometimes advise him in advance of her upcoming family visits to the area he lives. When he didn't respond to her emails she would write him again and reprimand him, saying she was getting tired of being the one to push this "friendship". The emails I discovered don't use hot affair words like, love, adore, sexual etc., but they do recall feelings they felt for each other decades ago, and say those feelings and experiences will always live inside them and in their hearts. It is maddening to read your spouses words to another man when she uses care and detail to express herself in a way that is never sent to me. She also sent him a picture of herself to him last Christmas (unsolicited) from her smart phone. I was out of town that week and never got an affectionate email like that nor any picture.
My trust for her is shaken. After so many years of marriage to find my spouse hiding this from me is unnerving. I never heard of or knew the definition of an emotional affair until googling it after this occurred. She had secret meetings with him online, shared intimate thoughts with him, these were kept secret from me. She said and wrote things to him that she would never do in front of me. She arranged private communication and talk time with him. She shared stuff with him that she doesn't share with me. I told her, marriage is a union--not sharing with me corrupts it.
Since confronting her, she has agreed to block him on Facebook, and to stop writing and communicating to him. Yet I get triggered all the time. A couple months ago I went through it all again, needing to discuss it with her. She says she doesn't like feeling like she is on the witness stand in court. She insists no communication has taken place since I discovered it. Yet, I am not in peace. What if I would not have discovered it? Obviously, the emails would have continued. I don't have access to all her email all the time, and even if I did it is so simple to open dummy accounts or communicate instantly. I dont want to keep checking her accounts, phone, etc. But how can I get to a point where I trust her again. Is it even possible?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

She is clearly in an EA, emotional affair. Maybe PA, maybe not (sex). You will likely never know for sure. However, if they met up face to face, the probability of PA goes way up, because that is what adults do... 

You are right that you can't trust her right now.

She can't be allowed to rug sweep this. She should be begging you for fogiveness, not 'acting like she is on the witness stand'.

Others will post. Read Weightlifter's thread about gathering intelligence. 

If your gut is still screaming at you, something is still wrong.


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

You wont stop triggering or distrusting for a couple of years to come, she has to come clean on every little detail she has to understand she needs to help you get closure and help you find peace and she could always try remorse instead of snippy comments like the witness stand, she has to understand this is as much a betrayal as finding them in bed together


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

If they get together they will most likely end up fvcking, so until you can get a bridle on this, tell her if she goes back to her country, you'll be going with her. Additionally, tell her if this "friendship" doesn't cease and desist, you've got a couple of big breasted forty year old chicks at work that's been needing the wisdom of a little older gentleman regarding boyfriend/husband problems. You don't do it because it may be offensive to her. But if such friendship are innocent, than she wouldn't mind if you help these girls out a little. Like a viable business, ain't nothing that will make them clean up their act and give better customer service than a little competition.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Sounds like this might be one sided.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honestman131 (Dec 26, 2014)

What do you mean by "one sided"? Coming from her only and mostly her chasing him?


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## honestman131 (Dec 26, 2014)

I appreciate your perceptive comments. They are helpful. One of the problems I have in believebility is that several of her notes to him request a meeting. In fact, one sent to him says" let's get together today, how does that look to you." Then an email dated 6 days later from her to him says, " I don't like your behavior, you misinterpreted me and my actions. I only sought friendship. You mistakenly thought it was something more. I am stopping this relationship." When I contfronted her about the context of these messages and that they indicated a meeting. She swore up and down that a meeting never took place. That the BF didn't go to see her. I find that difficult to believe based on the context of the messages. She said they spoke on the phone instead of a physical meeting and she tired of his attitude.Messages stopped, but six months later she was writing him again. What do you think?


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Send a letter to the other man's wife. She will be vigilant about her husband when your wife goes to visit her country. You will have extra pairs of eyes who will watch them. 

I would email and call the other man to let him know that I disapprove of his communication with your wife and this has been going on for eight years. Your wife is chasing him. He is flattered. Let him know that an affair with her could be potentially embarrassing for him and his family. Tell your wife that you will give notice to her family as well in her home country. This might end this childlike behavior of your wife.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

honestman131 said:


> What do you mean by "one sided"? Coming from her only and mostly her chasing him?


I guess a little of both, but it sounds like he might not be as into it as her. In some ways worse because she's actively pursuing him but in some ways better because he's not diving in with her, so perhaps easier to pull her out of.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed I doubt that your wife would be so forgiving and accepting as you have been. This has been going on for 8 years behind your back? This shows an enormous lack of respect to you and your marriage.

If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Polygraph


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Perhaps she wanted an affair but he didn't?

She might be looking for a lover. Monitor her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

honestman131 said:


> She denied everything when I confronted her. But I had printed out the emails to show her so her denial stopped.


And if she didn't do anything wrong in her mind, she would have admitted it and said it isn't a big deal.

The fact she denied it is her acknowledging she shouldn't have been engaging in what you probably consider an emotional affair.




> She said it was innocent


Then she wouldn't have denied it at the start.




> She said and wrote things to him that she would never do in front of me.


That and she tried to keep her correspondence with him a secret from you.




> Since confronting her, she has agreed to block him on Facebook, and to stop writing and communicating to him. Yet I get triggered all the time. A couple months ago I went through it all again, needing to discuss it with her. She says she doesn't like feeling like she is on the witness stand in court.


In the short term, honestly, that's just too freaking bad. Criminals don't like being on the witness stand I'm sure.

Bottom line, if you feel like you aren't getting the answers you need, then its tough crap if she feels interrogated. She shouldn't have been engaging in conversation with another man behind your back.




> But how can I get to a point where I trust her again. Is it even possible?


If it is possible, then it won't happen with her being defensive at your questions. If she has any interest at putting your mind at ease, she will answer your questions and not be defensive about it. That is the least that needs to happen right now.

In the future, just being loving to you can do it. This isn't exactly one of those point of no return scenarios we usually hear here. While what she has done is hurting you, you could have read things from her to him like she loved him, etc. This is not unfixable.

So for starters, she needs to drop the defensiveness. She got caught, she needs to deal with the emotions you are feeling that she caused.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

honestman131 said:


> I appreciate your perceptive comments. They are helpful. One of the problems I have in believebility is that several of her notes to him request a meeting. In fact, one sent to him says" let's get together today, how does that look to you." Then an email dated 6 days later from her to him says, " I don't like your behavior, you misinterpreted me and my actions. I only sought friendship. You mistakenly thought it was something more. I am stopping this relationship." When I contfronted her about the context of these messages and that they indicated a meeting. She swore up and down that a meeting never took place. That the BF didn't go to see her. I find that difficult to believe based on the context of the messages. She said they spoke on the phone instead of a physical meeting and she tired of his attitude.Messages stopped, but *six months later she was writing him again. What do you think?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> I think, no matter what she says, she's enjoying this and has no intention of stopping, no matter how much it bothers you. Sorry.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

honestman131 said:


> I appreciate your perceptive comments. They are helpful. One of the problems I have in believebility is that several of her notes to him request a meeting. In fact, one sent to him says" let's get together today, how does that look to you." Then an email dated 6 days later from her to him says, " I don't like your behavior, you misinterpreted me and my actions. I only sought friendship. You mistakenly thought it was something more. I am stopping this relationship." When I contfronted her about the context of these messages and that they indicated a meeting. She swore up and down that a meeting never took place. That the BF didn't go to see her. I find that difficult to believe based on the context of the messages. She said they spoke on the phone instead of a physical meeting and she tired of his attitude.Messages stopped, but six months later she was writing him again. What do you think?


The reason you are struggling to believe her line of complete crap is because that it does not makes sense and she has shown that she has no issue boldly lying to your face.

without wring, I would contact OM's wife and share the information. Maybe she has some info that you do not.

You could also ask your wife for a polygraph and judge her reaction.

Her explanation stinks.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Have a cousin whose wife was in a EA with a co worker and swore that nothing sexual happened and after a while she started complaining that my cousin was brow beating her over it and in so many ways, she never really shown a lot of remorse and in her mind thought that she did enough until one day she mentioned something about her and my cousin taking a cruise in the future and he looked at her and in a real calm voice told her that he isn't looking that far in the future since he doesn't know what the next week will be like with her lack of remorse and what it did was put his wife on notice that she isn't out of the woods yet and he hasn't decided what he wants to do and the woman walked on eggs for damn near a year and then they went to MC. Maybe you should take the attitude that he took.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Some good advise given especially about contacting his wife as you would like to have known if he was contacting her and you didn't know

There's needs to be a *NC agreement *sent *A.S.A.P.*

Also I can not see with the content of one of the emails you have quoted that a face to face has not occurred and if you have the date then talking to his wife will nail that down if there was


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

An affair without consequences means just that. Repeat action after the smoke clears. -or - worse.

Many folks say file for D to show her you're serious and that you can cancel the D later. That's a huge consequence.

VAR her car. Many cheats think they are safe and free to talk by phone. Their phone or a secret burner phone. 

Start planning and consider your options.

It's important she shows true remorse, not regret she was caught. Seems like shes's pissed you stopped her secret excitement. Not good.

Also, read up on MMSLP.

You could consider exposing her to her parents and friends and yours too. Contact the OMW. Offer to share evidence. That will definitely put pressure on them. And a valuable ally for you. They may bring some reality back to her and pressure her. Word that carefully so it won't backfire on you being the bad guy.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

If I ever found this type of communication between my W and her ex it would be a deal breaker. To me the emotional connection is more harmful than a physical one but that is just me. The physical is just icing on the cake (for them).


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

With regards to talking to the other man, focus on the consequences that you will bring to him and his family if he does not quit communicating with your wife. You won't get any details from him such as communication materials as emails. It will incriminate him. However, get these from your wife if she is indeed remorseful.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

8 year EA
Unremorseful WS

Time to install the keylogger to monitor. It's quite easy to have a secret facebook account under an alias. Don't underestimate her. An 8 year EA(?) doesn't just end overnight.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Hate to say it, but if she wasn't getting this emotional high from him, she'd be getting it from someone else (if she isn't already). The sad fact is, she is thinking of life beyond you.

File D papers, even if you want to save this marriage. As others have said, she should be on her knees until they bleed, begging for your forgiveness. If she is truly remorseful, the prospect of really losing you will get her head out of her ass.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

F-102 said:


> Hate to say it, but if she wasn't getting this emotional high from him, she'd be getting it from someone else (if she isn't already). The sad fact is, she is thinking of life beyond you.
> 
> File D papers, even if you want to save this marriage. As others have said, she should be on her knees until they bleed, begging for your forgiveness. If she is truly remorseful, the prospect of really losing you will get her head out of her ass.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

This happens far too often around here lately, with the betrayed spouse as the one begging the cheater to recommit to the marriage. 

She's been cheating for 8 years now and they've met in person. She even lets him know when she'll be in town so they can have their meets. Unfortunately, the last 8 years of his marriage have all been a lie because her heart belongs to the OM. BTDT.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

G.J. said:


> Some good advise given especially about contacting his wife as you would like to have known if he was contacting her and you didn't know
> 
> There's needs to be a *NC agreement *sent *A.S.A.P.*
> 
> Also I can not see with the content of one of the emails you have quoted that a face to face has not occurred and if you have the date then talking to his wife will nail that down if there was


OP messaged me and asked


> what is a nc agreement? non cheating agreement? and sent to whom? where do I get a copy of one


Please advise him content of email/letter for this scenario
And action to be taken with ref to exposure if applicable


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Write a letter to OMW, make copies of all communication between them. In your letter leave contact information for her to contact you. Place your letter and printed emails in a box and ship to OMW. At the very least contact your WW family asking for contact info on OM if you don't know his address. This will place pressure on your WW. Lordmayhem is dead on that after eight years it doesn't just stop. WW is communicating with him. Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

RClawson said:


> If I ever found this type of communication between my W and her ex it would be a deal breaker. To me the emotional connection is more harmful than a physical one but that is just me. The physical is just icing on the cake (for them).


:iagree:

honestman, you're getting good advice but I think your not getting all the background information you need to understand or process the advice (and the affair).

To recover, your wife needs to be very remorseful, genuinely so. She has to come to hate what she did, and hate it because of how it hurt you. She has to understand what is broken inside her that led her to be able to do this. She has to become a central part of healing you.

You have to understand what she did to a whatever level you need. Which means she needs to repeatedly admit to you in a consistent way what happened, and she has to do it willingly and believably. She has to demonstrate her remorse and a new trustworthiness over several years in order for you to feel some sense of trust in her. Your marriage will never be the same, and you will never trust her again the way that you did.

I recommend you both immediately read the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. There are other good books out there, but this is one I read and really like. 

You need professional guidance from a marriage counselor who is experienced in dealing with infidelity, and who does not blame you. Both of you are imperfect partners (we all are), and your marriage was not perfect. But, that is not any excuse at all for what your wife did. So there are two separate issues to deal with in MC. One is her affair. The other is fixing what deficits you can in your marriage. But never let the line between the two be crossed. Whatever you did or didn't do that left your wife feeling the marraige was broken had nothing to do with her choice to have this emotional (and possibly physical) affair. The cheating is 100% her fault. She could have divorced you, she could have dragged you to marriage counseling, she could have tried self help books, etc. But she made the wrong choice to deal with problems in the marriage by seeking her ex-bf.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

So I think you should go to marriage counseling immediately, with the goal of processing the infidelity to see if you can save the marriage. 

Also you should very seriously consider requiring her to take a polygraph so that you can get the full truth of the affair. Did they ever meet in person? Did they ever have any form of sex, either in person or via text/skype/chat? Did either one ever send nude photos? Did she ever profess she loved him? Etc.

The tactics and strategies recommended on this thread are all proven to help move you towards a resolution but I think you might also benefit from MC.

At your age I understand there are complexities which discourage divorce. I'm only a few years younger than you. MOney, retirement, a lifetime of family memories which can never be recreated in another future marriage, etc. If you were 30 I'd tell you to run like your a$$ is on fire and start over. But I can understand if you feel strongly you'd like to try to save this marriage. Just be sure it is a good satisfying marriage if you stay.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

This sort of distant pen pal EA could be a significant threat to your marriage. In your wife's mind it may be an idle fantasy. The star of the this is the young her, the girl whose breasts were firm, vagina was creamy. She is nostalgic for that time in her life. This guy is part of that fantasy.

In real life he may not be able to get it up. Maybe they have met up and had sex but she not going to confess.

Question one: Is your wife basically a good person? Does she take care of her responsibilities? If you have a fever, does she care for you in a loving way? Does she love you?

If your wife is selfish and inconsiderate, then this EA is just a ugly feature of a person you don't enjoy being with anyways. If so, just divorce her.

If your wife is really a good person, she'll be very sorry about this, once she gives it some thought. Does she generally find it difficult to admit to being in the wrong. If she is never mistaken about anything and hates saying sorry, divorce her.

Start doing the 180 on her. Don't be a bad tempered or argumentative. If she says it was no big deal, then treat it like no big deal, but also don't treat her as big deal either. Until she shows insight and remorse, detach from her. If she starts chasing you and love bombing you with sex and affection, then maybe you can have stronger marriage than before.

Had the attention she sought from OM come from you, would it have meant much to her? Now that she is in the dog house, she ought to be trying to hold your hand, hug you, etc.

Since this has happened, you have a chance to fix things. Divorce is one fix. Remorse and renewed love is the other.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

honestman131 said:


> I appreciate your perceptive comments. They are helpful. One of the problems I have in believebility is that several of her notes to him request a meeting. In fact, one sent to him says" let's get together today, how does that look to you." Then an email dated 6 days later from her to him says, " I don't like your behavior, you misinterpreted me and my actions. I only sought friendship. You mistakenly thought it was something more. I am stopping this relationship." When I contfronted her about the context of these messages and that they indicated a meeting. She swore up and down that a meeting never took place. That the BF didn't go to see her. I find that difficult to believe based on the context of the messages. She said they spoke on the phone instead of a physical meeting and she tired of his attitude.Messages stopped, but six months later she was writing him again. What do you think?


He tried to take it physical and might have succeeded. She says she didn't like it though. You can only conclude they met up and he put the moves on her.

Personally, I don't think I could tolerate this, certainly not with her attitude. She has been a lot more generous and sweet to him than you. Look up the 180 and see if she cares.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> But how can I get to a point where I trust her again. Is it even possible?


Maybe but doubtful. I think the biggest issue that makes it doubtful is that *she has chosen another man to feed her romantic and emotional needs and is not 100% committed to helping you heal.* She has rejected you in some very important areas of your marriage and has done a lot of damage but does not seem that remorseful.

It is possible through counselling and her getting a complete change of attitude and commitment to you that she could fill your hole in your heart somewhat. However, by what your have told us your chances are very low. She has been betraying you for 8 years and now thinks that her explaining is you putting her on the witness stand. The other man OM pissed her off but she thought about him for 6 months then resumed contact with him. She is determined to extract from this man some of her needs and leave you out of the picture. She has stopped now (Maybe) because she has been outed and is probably afraid that you will tell the wife of the OM.

*Your marriage has a permanent crack and you will have to settle for less if you are going to stay in the marriage.* I would suggest that you find a way to build yourself up in your mind, emotions, and spirit. You cannot depend on your wife to do that for you. If fact you need to do that even if you leave/divorce your wife. You seem a little bit too co-dependent because you have not demanded or got a lot of support from your wife for her betrayal. *You tolerating her telling you that you are putting her on the witness stand when you need support from her makes me think that your too co-dependent on her and need to be more self-sufficient.*


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## honestman131 (Dec 26, 2014)

You are very astute. Yes, there is no doubt that her continued connection to him comes in part from remembering youthful times, a life without problems, energy, music, innocence, poetry, etc. Once she wrote him, "if you met in person, words would not be necessary, our faces would say it all..." When confronted by me about those words she said it was a weak moment when she shared old memories to him upon her hometown visit. I told her its okay to have memories like that, but write them in a private paper journal and throw it in a drawer. Don't email them to the other person. She agreed, but this is what I am up against. As you say, the part that is fantasy is dangerous.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She is denying everything because she has no incentive to confess anything and lose her face..



> In fact, one sent to him says" let's get together today, how does that look to you." Then an email dated 6 days later from her to him says, " I don't like your behavior, you misinterpreted me and my actions. I only sought friendship. You mistakenly thought it was something more. I am stopping this relationship." When I contfronted her about the context of these messages and that they indicated a meeting. She swore up and down that a meeting never took place. That the BF didn't go to see her.


She is lying straight to your face and getting away with it. Why should she confess more ?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Her reality for years has been that she has a secret second life. This doesn't just go away because you have discovered it. She may try, I suppose, to go cold turkey, but it won't last long, in my opinion. She will find ways to keep the contact.

And even if she were to really completely break it off, how would you ever know? She has lied so much for so long that you have no way of knowing when she is being truthful.

I, too, am in a long marriage and I have thought carefully about your situation. I don't think I could continue in the marriage. The deception for so long, the fact that my spouse really wasn't 'all in' in the marriage for years, that he was pining for someone else, this all would probably change my feelings materially.

Of course, you can never be sure, but what I do know is that life is short and I really, really don't want to live someone else's drama until I die. Some peace and honesty go a long way toward personal happiness.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

It looks to me that W was fine with engaging in an EA, but not yet prepared for a PA, hence the "I'm ending this relationship."

Having said that, eight years is a very long time to engage in secret communication with someone...def. some attachment there. My wife, when she was involved in her online EAs, frequently called them off and then cane stumbling back...it is the nature of addiction. Quitting an involved EA is not that easy once they put their hand in that bear trap.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Have you told your family about her actions? expose to your family and to her family.

How would she deal with your having an A?

Would she let you get by with these lies?

Start working on the 180 for you.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Ahh yes. Replaying the "old times" through her memories. As long as it remains just memories, no real problem. I think we all do that.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

honestman131 said:


> I appreciate your perceptive comments. They are helpful. One of the problems I have in believebility is that several of her notes to him request a meeting. In fact, one sent to him says" let's get together today, how does that look to you."  Then an email dated 6 days later from her to him says, " I don't like your behavior, you misinterpreted me and my actions. I only sought friendship. You mistakenly thought it was something more. I am stopping this relationship." When I contfronted her about the context of these messages and that they indicated a meeting. She swore up and down that a meeting never took place. That the BF didn't go to see her. I find that difficult to believe based on the context of the messages. She said they spoke on the phone instead of a physical meeting and she tired of his attitude.Messages stopped, but six months later she was writing him again. What do you think?


Sorry, but that all sounds VERY suspicious. I'd make a bet that they met somewhere and he got a little "frisky" which she, in her mind was not what she was looking for. In your original post you said she had blocked him and stopped all communication, now you're saying she's contacting him again. Did I misread that?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You need help getting a handle on what is going on in your lives. She has beed living in a fantasy world for almost a decade. What does she see that is so bad in her life that she would take away time from you, her children and grandchildren to live this etherial life. She is addicted to the escape she has created for herself. 

What is your life like now? As soon as you can manage it, make changes to revitalize yourself and your life. Bring newness into your life. New people, hobbies, habits, dress and independence. What are your dreams and fantasies? 

It will take years. Years deciding if you want to stay married and if you decide in favor of your wife what she needs to do to win you back. Does not sound as if she is doing that. What are the consequences for her deception? Sounds like she is continuing to dismiss you. 

Get yourself together as soon as you can and put your focus on you not her. She should be worried about losing you, why is so sure you will not leave her? It appears she does not value her husband or her family if she is willing to toss you away for nothing. We human's have a tendency to forget what we have if we are too sure it will always be there. It becomes background noise. You have become background noise. It does not mean she does not love you but she forgot about you because she is sure you will not leave. 

Are you willing to consider a separation and D? If not then you will remain in the background. You don't have to make a decision to actually D now but if yu take it of the table then you will remain on your wife's back burner. You are worth far more that a curt dismissal after what you have done for her for 30 yrs. Make her feel that. You need to shake things up big time. Get angry not only hurt. Did you disclose to the OM's my wife? 

Her indifferent attitude will change rapidly when she faces the possibility of loss in favor of this foolish fantasy. You have to be willing to let her go. She has to convince you that she loves you and is wiling to fight for you.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Honestman
> You are very astute. Yes, there is no doubt that her continued connection to him comes in part from remembering youthful times, a life without problems, energy, music, innocence, poetry, etc. Once she wrote him, *"if you met in person, words would not be necessary, our faces would say it all..." *When confronted by me about those words she said it was a weak moment when she shared old memories to him upon her hometown visit. *I told her its okay to have memories like that,* but write them in a private paper journal and throw it in a drawer. Don't email them to the other person. She agreed, but this is what I am up against. As you say, the part that is fantasy is dangerous.



Honestman, you and I are very different men. If my wife becomes so infatuated with another man like that, and put me in second place, I would never tell her it is OK. She would have to do a very QUICK 180 for me to even think about keeping her. I would immediately build myself up with another life that did not include her.

You seem to compromise too much and are too co-dependent on her. Almost every husband is co-dependent to a degree on his wife but to be so co-dependent that your will tolerate her very long EA with another man and then compromise; *well you desperately need to become more self-sufficient!*

You have been given very good advice on this thread so you have enough knowledge for you to take action. *What actions are you taking? *If you do not take the right actions you will always be number 2 in her life; in fact you may be number 3 or 4!

You can get a LOT stronger with the right help and the right actions so match your talking with your actions! *There should be very substantial changes right now! *Some things you need to compromise on but NOT THIS ONE!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Honest
You are naturally devastated by this. I do think that your wife loves you but she has chosen escape instead of growth. She has chosen the past because she is probably disappointed in how her life has unfolded. She should be ecstatic, after all, she has a husband who loves her and is faithful to her, children, grandchildren, stability. She could be the OM wife. 

The man of her dreams is a foolish OM with so little character that he takes time away from his marriage to engage in a foolish fantasy. How would she like to be in his wife's place? Tell her that. Ask her how her life would have turned out if she were with him? The OM would be cheating on her with another fantasy woman or women like he is cheating on his wife. That is the character of the person she has been wasting her time pining after for almost a decade. 

Give her the choice to chase down this faithless OM and let you, a faithful good man, be flooded with offers from women who are fleeing characterless and cheating men like her OM. If it should come to this, you will find that there are plenty of women capable of loyalty and love, looking for a man like you.


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## honestman131 (Dec 26, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Honest
> You are naturally devastated by this. I do think that your wife loves you but she has chosen escape instead of growth. She has chosen the past because she is probably disappointed in how her life has unfolded. She should be ecstatic, after all, she has a husband who loves her and is faithful to her, children, grandchildren, stability. She could be the OM wife.
> 
> The man of her dreams is a foolish OM with so little character that he takes time away from his marriage to engage in a foolish fantasy. How would she like to be in his wife's place? Tell her that. Ask her how her life would have turned out if she were with him? The OM would be cheating on her with another fantasy woman or women like he is cheating on his wife. That is the character of the person she has been wasting her time pining after for almost a decade.
> ...


I think you make tremendous points. I am starting to implement them. I discussed several of your points with my wife and I think it had an affect. Thanks so much for discussing this from the woman's point of view. Question: my wife isn't the most verbal person regarding these difficult themes. I think she is moving toward actual change though. I see it in some of her actions. Example, she is giving me more attention. She said her lesson in this is to spend her energy in her marriage where as before she spent it elsewhere frequently. Yet, to get her to verbally admit deep remorse is something else, because she insists that most of the communication was innocent without malice toward her marriage with me. Do I need to break that down for her, and say nothing is possible until you declare deep remorse for what you did. Until then, change only goes so far? What are your thoughts?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Maybe she would show deep remorse, if she put herself in your shoes.

How would she feel if you were spending all of this energy with another woman?

Wouldn't she think that you should have deep remorse for acting inappropriate with another woman when you were married to her?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your wife probably refused to let her old boyfriend take the relationship physical. She wanted to celebrate her youth with him. After she broke it off and then renewed contact shows that she has an emotional need for romance.

Her intentions may have been innocent but clearly there was risk. You can take certain satisfaction in your wife having drawn the line. She had a boundary. However, her lack of interest in you as a source of romantic love is disappointing.

Are you the stronger more secure person of the two of you?

I think you can trust her. What you need from her is sincere affection that makes clear that you are not just her husband but her lover. Short of this faithfulness and loyalty are a bit flavorless. And if her attractiveness as a spouse has diminished, she is principally to blame.

If she makes an effort to treat you special, you should acknowledge it, but not in beta fashion.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

How can romantic words to another man NOT be considered "malice" towards your marriage? Or at least indifference toward you and your marriage.

Tell her how much this discovery has pained you.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Agree. And that is why OP must make it clear to her that she has a lot of work to do restore her marriage. Words from him are not the way. His attitude should be the channel of communication.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> How can romantic words to another man NOT be considered "malice" towards your marriage? Or at least indifference toward you and your marriage.
> 
> Tell her how much this discovery has pained you.


:iagree:

My fWW did almost this same EXACT thing. She moved heaven and earth to win me back. The whole begging,crying, and snot bubbles, etc.....when I decided to leave her ass. I was angry, and I was furious. How dare she share stuff with another man from 30 years ago. I communicated to her clearly that I will buy the plane ticket for her to go to Canada and she can GTFO. LM don't play that. Maybe my tolerance for this crap is a lot lower since this is my second time being cheated on, the other was my first marriage.

Your WW is STILL minimizing the affair. THAT is NOT TRUE REMORSE! You should not have to break it down for her, if she was truly remorseful, she should know and acknowledge what she did. She should be busting her ass to save the marriage. She is nowhere near ready for the precious, precious gift of R. And what I see here is honestman131 is the one forcing R. It doesn't do any good for her to say she is remorseful when there is no action to accompany it. The difference between his situation and mine is that his WW actually took trips to see her OM, mine didn't. I don't see how he's not furious about that, in fact, it blows my mind about how passive that it. Because that would be the deal breaker for me.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> Agree. And that is why OP must make it clear to her that she has a lot of work to do restore her marriage. Words from him are not the way. His attitude should be the channel of communication.


Yes, he should communicate clearly that she can either bust her ass to save the marriage or she can GTFO.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

If she really understood how deceitful and painful her actions were, she would break it down spontaneously. It seems that her actions give you just enough reason to hope. If she were sincere then she would move heaven and earth to save her marriage. 

Your wife seems sure you will not leave her. She'll placate you with a few puny gestures of remorse. Since there are no consequences for her infidelity, I think she will find it hard to resist a repeat performance. 

Think about what you need and how you will make it happen and try to take the focus off of your wife. This will be very difficult for you. You'll be turning around years of habitual dependency on your wife. Maybe you won't be able to transform yourself now but in the years to come, you will wish you did. 

It does not sound like your wife cares enough to mount more than a tepid response. That may dissipate in time and you may continue to feel the same loneliness you feel now. only at that time, you will have spent 5 or 10 years trying to get her to show remorse. 

If you decide that staying is the best choice for you, find new meaning for your life. That meaning could be a total change in focus - enjoying your life and what it has to offer. Work at detaching and having as much joy and pleasure in your life as you can. 

Take the focus off of your wife and put it on you, right now. Renew relationships with your children, get involved with your friends, make new ones. Update your appearance, exercise, go to a gym 3 times a week, join an exercise group biking or running or walking. This is a wake up call to plot a course to a better more satisfying life with or without your wife.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> If she really understood how deceitful and painful her actions were, she would break it down spontaneously. It seems that her actions give you just enough reason to hope. If she were sincere then she would move heaven and earth to save her marriage.
> 
> *Your wife seems sure you will not leave her. She'll placate you with a few puny gestures of remorse. Since there are no consequences for her infidelity, I think she will find it hard to resist a repeat performance. *
> 
> ...


This.

This wasn't a mistake but 8 years, heck maybe even longer of willful deceit, now being passed off as just a little mistake or fantasy. It goes way way deeper than this but my main concern is this might all be misdirection.

You caught her in a lie about the affair, you barely knew and trusted her to the hilt. Yet she had these feelings, enough to detach and proceed to write this guy and share the fantasies, and she still hadn't met him, maybe she was meeting other guys for the physical stuff? And part of her might be relieved you haven't caught her on that aspect.

Would you consider a polygraph to ascertain the whole truth?

It's just she's stone walled the whole way through which is why you don't feel there's been much progress. 

The rabbit hole in these cases always tends to go much much deeper.


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