# Just so unsure...



## Riven

Hey, my D Day was 4-2-12, uhm yea fate's pretty cruel that way as it is the day after April fools...

Short of it is my H worked away from home, had depression, and was an alcoholic, went to the bar that night, butt dialed me, I heard some woman at the bar hitting on him, I finally got a hold of him, he said he was sleeping, I told him he was lying, phone call ended... she turned off his phone and well the rest is as they say history. Come morning he was apologizing and everything, but I still didn't know what, if anything happened. I had to ask if he cheated on me, he said he did, told me that it wasn't "good" he didn't even "finish" (his words) that was morning after, later on now he claims he can't even remember anything from that night. He had taken two sleeping pills and drank 6-7 beers before running out and going over to bar next door of the hotel he was at for work.


We've been married for 7 years in Sept, together for 11, have one daughter together, and I have one from a previous marriage that basically considers him her dad. Things haven't always been good, he's resented me a lot throughout our whole relationship, he sometimes acknowledges it. 

Fast forward, he hasn't had a drink since that night, he is working in our area and home every night now, I'm done with school and working as well. He usually tries sometimes he acts like he's tired of our life. He's taking a bigger part in our family and we're trying to work on things as a team, which is not how the past had been.

But... I'm still hurt, I still don't understand, I don't know how he could do this to me... I have questions I've never gotten answers to, like who started it, and such, which leaves me with my creative mind filling in blanks... 

Our sex life is lacking because sometimes I'll be interested in sex, then the ONS thing pops into my head and needless to say it kills it. 

I just don't know how to get past it. Sometimes I just kind of sulk around because I'm so hurt and betrayed. Opinions? Thoughts? I want our marriage to work, but I wonder if I want it to be something it can never be... especially if I can't find a way to work past... well the past. We did marriage counseling for quite a while, he would go, but felt it was making things worse, I felt like we were working through things we needed to work on. I was on Cymbalta until recently, but instead of me dealing with many of these things I'd just take a pill and be numb, it was to the point that I was so numb I wasn't depressed, but I wasn't happy either. Just like a walking zombie. 

Suggestions... I feel lost and alone.


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## cdbaker

You might consider posting in the recovering from infidelity section as that group might apply to your situation a little more than this one. 

Ultimately if you want to move forward, you have to find a way to forgive. If he has done everything you've asked of him since then, then that is a great sign. I know it might not make you feel better to hear this, but it seems very possible that this was just a really stupid, drunken mistake that he would never have made were it not for the combination of the pills and alcohol. I think it's also a good sign that he confessed so quickly to you.

Infidelity is a bad, bad thing, no matter how it happens, no question. But it sounds like he knows that and wouldn't do it again. I'd highly suggest counseling of some kind. Definitely for you, but maybe MC as well if he is showing signs that he may be tired of his life, as you mentioned. Of course, if you are able to work through your trouble with forgiveness, that will help the whole relationship move forward, not just you alone.

Best of luck!


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## Riven

Thanks CDBaker, I've posted in Infidelity in the past, I posted here as it seems to me that they're a little more... aggressive there sometimes with the theory "once a cheater, always a cheater" and such. For me it's not as much a trust thing, like I don't trust him not to cheat on me again, it's that I'm stuck on what did happen and can't seem to find a way to get unstuck on my own. 

Never would I have thought he would have cheated on me, it never once crossed my mind even though he'd worked away from home for 8 days in a row since we'd been married. I should've have had to ask him if he did, but he thought I already knew he did. I of course highly suspected, but was not positive. 

You may be right, that perhaps I should return to counseling. During the midst of all of this personal turmoil, I was completing my nursing degree which I decided to change careers at the age of 30... My school is completed, despite everything I maintained well in school, it was my get away, and now work is, and graduated with honors. With my schedule more laid out now it may be easier for me to get in and do some counseling, our counselor was great ( the second one we found by referral) and maybe I just need some guidance on working through this further... I do want things to work out, but I feel like I'm in a terrible limbo trying to get there and can't find a path. 

Thanks Baker for your reply. Sorry for the novella.


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## noas55

I agree with Baker. You might consider seeking further counseling or talk to your spiritual advisor to help you. If you could you need to forgive him so you can have closer on the incident. It sounds like it was a mistake caused by pills and drink.


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## Riven

Thanks for the reply noas. I currently have some medical issues going on as well and once we get that settled and those doctor appt's out of the way I have been thinking that maybe I should perhaps do at least some indiv. counseling. The doctor thought I might have rheumatoid arthritis, I thought maybe it was Sjogrens, but everything came back negative, so I have to see the specialists to sort it out. Due to the pain and other side effects with it like brain fog and fatigue I've been unable to do my gym routine and such and have gained weight due to some of the steriods and such they're giving me which probably really isn't helping. I'm not huge, but I certainly don't want to gain anymore!

Thanks again for your input.


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## cdbaker

Why wait on the IC thought? I imagine both of you would feel a lot better if you felt you were making progress on this issue, and it would probably help with your health related stress too?


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## Riven

The reason on the wait is simply timing and driving. My counselor is 30 minutes from where we live (we live in a rural area), I work nights, which means I sleep days often, and the added driving for the other appointments some of which look like they may be in a town 2 1/2 hours away. 

After this shift I may see if there will be any chance to schedule any IC that will jive with some of my schedule, I hate to go right before work and be distracted by what happened in counseling as I often need time to process things and sort through them. 

Not that I'm putting off going, just that my work schedule is a bit whacky right now, plus the additional doctors visits coming up as I'm really not sure what to expect they are sending me to the more local specialist, but said they may have to send me to the one 2 1/2 hours away. I get very fatigued at work and I usually sleep for a whole day like 18 hours after a 2-3 day run which is how I usually work. Blah... basically what I'm trying to spit out is I am having troubles finding time for everything right now. LOL well that made it easier.

This thread has helped me realize that my issue is not that I necessarily need to "get over" it, but forgive to move on. So I have gotten a book called Forgiveness, a bold choice for a happy heart (or something very similar) and that seems to be helping me sort through some things as well. 

Sorry again for the novella, but thanks so much for the post, it makes me feel like I'm here, that I'm not just sitting here alone.


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## manticore

Riven said:


> Our sex life is lacking because sometimes I'll be interested in sex, then the ONS thing pops into my head and needless to say it kills it.
> Suggestions... I feel lost and alone.


Hi Riven i just want to tell you that what your husband did is something painfully common and what he told you is probably true, ONS while being drunk (plus in his case medicated) happen a lot, and is true that you can black out and just remember some parts the next day.

i am a healthy 31 years old handsome (yes i dont have problems admting it here, in real life i try to be more humble) man in a serious relationship of 3 years, i have never cheated in any girfriend i have had in the past and i consider myself a morally strong person regarding cheating or being involved with women who have relationships.

but when i was 26 (i had another girlfriend at the time) i was drinking in a friend's house with other 2 friends and the wife of my friend (the owner of the house), long story short i got so drunk that i did not remember nothing from 11pm to morning, next day my other 2 friends told me that when we were leaving my friend*s house i told them i wanted to confess to the wife of my friend and see if i had a shot, first i thought they were messing with me, but after being told i began to have flash backs and a felt so disguted with myself, i mean i had no real feelings for the woman and my friend had kicked my ass if he had learned that, thank to god my other 2 friends say they will take that information to the grave because they know i am not like that.

By the way is not just men who do it, women do it alot too but they are a little worst, while remorsefull men like yours confess to the life partner inmediatly and change they behavior to imporve their situtation women prefer to take the secret to their graves doing many times impossible to forgive the act if the husband learn about it many years later, as example you can check this page:

hxxp://www.mywayout.org/community/f79/i-cheated-while-drunk-58043.html.

*
just change the xx in hxxp for tt (http).*


other thing, i am going to be brutally honest with you, all the men i have known (with girlfriends or wives) masturbate watching porn even if they have a healthy sex life, i guess can be some exceptions but i have not known one yet, we just dont share this infoirmation with our partners and try to delate all the evidence for our computers after doing it because we learn from young age that you women consider it disgusting and feel betrayed even if for us mean nothing and have nothing to do with how we feel about our partners.

i am telling this with the hope you can forgive more easaly your husband who looks like a serious remorsefull person who had already taken actions about the root of the problem (alcohol), and who is also punoshjing himself about his actions.

a hope you can pass the problem a find hapiness with your partner.


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## Riven

Manticore, thank you for your reply. I like it because it is honest. Either there are a lot of people who have not experienced a situation like mine, or they don't want to talk about it. 

Either way it is very painful. Every so often I will have nearly a full fledged "reliving" of it and have basically a complete emotional breakdown. It's very hard on me for sure, emotionally and physically it drains me completely. I actually just had this two days ago, I didn't think about it until my husband said something but it was essentially the 1 1/2 year mark since it happen, plus one day. Between these breakdowns things are often fine. I know this is something that will take time. Both my mother and I have this complex that we aren't good enough, it stems from my grandmother and although we know it, like anything else that's been that way since you were born, it's hard to shake. Overall I'm an exceptional person, I'm attractive but not fake like a doll, classy yet not afraid to get dirty. I love to dress up, but am not anal about my nails and hair, I like to work on cars, do yard work, build things, yet I love theater and museums, arts, symphony. I help save lives every day as a nurse, and I love my job. I'm intelligent, and caring. I'm an internationally published author, a state champion horseman, a great mother... but with all of these things plus more, deep down I feel I'm "not good enough", this situation only explodes that in my mind when it comes into full force. I understand these are issues of my own, that were there before this happened. I know I need to work on this, but I'm not sure how... I do have an appointment for counseling and hope he can help me improve some of that, as well as move past some of the grudge I have for my husband. I don't want to leave, but sometimes I feel it's hard to love it because of what he did. Sometimes I just can't understand if he loved me why would he do this to me? I trusted him... I thought he loved me... How could he do this?

He's even told me that he didn't know I loved him this much, and has basically said in the past (after this happened) that he didn't think I'd be hurt if he cheated on me...

As for the porn, I knew that some porn was going on, but not to the extent it was. Despite all of my good attributes a lot of times I'm blissfully naive. It was to the point he could not even have an orgasm with me, and sometimes it was an act of congress for him to get an erection. 

My personal thought is that the mix of 2-3 times of porn daily, mixed with the alcohol put him in a state that he probably didn't think what was going on was necessarily real. But I will never know. He said to me at one time that he "didn't want to do it, but felt like he already had so it did anyway". He does have a very compassionate side at times for people with a sad story. I don't know if this played into it or not. He claims he doesn't remember what she really looked like, her name, what they talked about at the bar, how exactly he talked to me on the phone and somehow didn't think holy **** I should kick this ***** out of my hotel room... 

I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs... I don't understand the drunk person's state of mind, lack of knowing right from wrong, etc. I can tell you all about the chemical and physiological side of it, but I still can't understand it. 

Sorry for the novella, Manticore I really do appreciate your reply. It helps give me a look at the other side. Thank you.


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## manticore

Hi Riven

let me tell you a little about me and my world view before given you advices or encouraging you to kept going, i dont want you to think that i am guy that justify another one for eating his cake and returning to home or a person who is 100% pro reconciliation, and that i will advice under any circunstance try to save the marriage, in fact is the other way around, about 95% or more of the cases I will say to never forgive the cheater and file for divorce to try to avoid useless reconcilation that will just bring more pain in the end, so yours is one of those 5% (or less) I encourage to try it because i feel is worth of it.

So why is a 31 bachelor who has never cheated or have been cheated (to my knowledge) in this kind of forums, well my years as teenager were marked by the constants fights of my parents about the infidelity of my father, the fights, accusations, my father's constant excuses and denial, my little sisters troubled by the mess, my father promising us (me and my mother) that he would not do it again, and then doing again.

Well that marked me and made me promise myself to never cheat my partner or family (i was thinking in the future), of course that also include to mess with persons already in a relationship.

so until i was 20 years old i was 100% against any kind of forgiveness or reconciliation for the cheater, no excuses allowed, nothing will justify the betrayal, once a cheater always a cheater, affairs were for people without morals or respect for others.

So when i was 20 and single (i was taking a break from college), i was working in a restaurant and little after i enter also a waitress called Alisha began to work there, she was beautifull, blond, petite, long hair, and of course married, she was 24. To be honest is not as if a put much of attention in here, once i saw a ring i lost my interest in even casual chats, don't take me wrong i always was civil, good morning, have a nice day, how are you doing? kind of talk.

Then she began to initiate conversations that involved personal life and likes and dislikes, and we became friends. There was a lady i her 40s she instead of calling me by my name called me sweet hearth or honey (there was another young guy and she also calling him that), but then Alisha also began to call me like that, she also began physical contact which from a single girl i had interpreted it as letting me know she was interested in something more than friendship.

Let me tell you that this took months not just some days, i began to develop interest in her but i still rejected the idea telling myself that there were a bunch of single women out there, so no need to look for problems, i think that what shocked me the most is that everybody was kind of supporting the possiblity of us having an affair, other waitresses began to tell me how she had a crush on me or how much she liked me, the manager (who was a jerk) told me to go for it, even my friends were like dude what are you waiting for?.

I still rejected the idea because i knew from first hand the destruction that affairs bring to third parties (she had no kids, but still she had a husband), she used to tell me how bad her realtionship with her husband was and told me (I never verified this, for me it sounded like a movie) that her husband was paralyzed due to an accident (letting me know that they could not have sex).

Well i had already formed a emotional relationship with her, but I never attempted to let it go further that that, until one day during work when i was cleaning the women restroom (we put the sign in the door to let them know they can't enter at the time), well she entered began small talk, and the began to change her uniform looking at the mirror as if i was not there i feel the blood rushing to my head and i did not care anymore i hold her a we began to make out, the whole thing was so thrilling because anyone could enter at any moment and catch us, no sex but really just because i have no protection right there.

In the end i did not have sex with her, i quit my job like a week later, and it was there when i began to investigate about how I who was so harsh on people who have affairs and always used to trash them almost ended up having part in an affair.

I ended in this kind of forums, learning about boundaries, how is so common to develop feelings for coworkers if you share your personal life, how a lot of people who considered themselves affair's proof made mistakes like mine, how was almost as common for married men and women to betray their spouses (to that point i really believed that married women just cheated on their partners in exceptional cases as having for husbands alcoholics or wife beaters).

since then i have probably read more that 500 cases and i have stopped seeing everything as white or black

sorry for the long post.


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## manticore

Riven said:


> Either way it is very painful. Every so often I will have nearly a full fledged "reliving" of it and have basically a complete emotional breakdown. It's very hard on me for sure, emotionally and physically it drains me completely. I actually just had this two days ago, I didn't think about it until my husband said something but it was essentially the 1 1/2 year mark since it happen, plus one day.


is very important that you share this feelings and thoughts with your husband when they cross your mind, for a succesfully a complete reconcilation he have to constantly help you to cope with your pain and be a constant support in the healing process.

is common that you still have mind movies even if it has been already 1 1/2 years, forgive and forget are two different things, you have to cope with things according to your pace, let me share with you a Thread from a couple that are in process of R and their DD was about the same time as yours.

they have performed great advance, and to be honest with you i thought the divorce was a sure thing the first time I read their situation.

the wife (user EI) had a 16 months affair in their marriage of 31 years, when thy began to post she wanted out of the marriage because the husband (user B1) had ignored her for years to the point where she had been sleeping for more than a year in the couch and the last time they had sex was 2 years prior to DD.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48667-wifes-affair-how-move-forward.html

they have one of the biggest Threads here in TAM about reconcilation (more that 600 pages), many people go there a share the stories and feelings about their own R, some of them go and look for advices.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html

they have come this far thanks to the help and healing they have been giving to each other.

There are other issues you mentioned in your last post that i would like to respond but right now i am a little tired. but in every aspect i can give you a perspective I will do it glady


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## manticore

Riven said:


> I have this complex that we aren't good enough......... Overall I'm an exceptional person, I'm attractive but not fake like a doll, classy yet not afraid to get dirty. I love to dress up, but am not anal about my nails and hair, I like to work on cars, do yard work, build things, yet I love theater and museums, arts, symphony. I help save lives every day as a nurse, and I love my job. I'm intelligent, and caring. I'm an internationally published author, a state champion horseman, a great mother... but with all of these things plus more, deep down I feel I'm "not good enough"


Riven, all of us have esteem issues the important is that we dont let this issues dominate the actions and choices we took in our life.

when we are put in situations that affect our life and are out of our control we wonder if we did something wrong or if we are not good enough (infidelity is probably one of the most devastating ones) even if this is not the case, for example.

When i was in my middle 20's I lost a good job because my company have a administrative change at direction level, i could not understand why i was being fired, when I was puntual, I had one of the better performance, i had recognitions in the company, i just could not help but to think, why other coworkers who i considered inferior in performance were still there, i was unemployed about 5 months and during that time I kept comparing myself with my friends and his faults thinking that i was not good enough "I did not studied the right major, I did not enter to te right company, i did not try hard enough".

i got depressed and it was just a job, I can't began to imagine for what you are going trough.

probably the only people who don't have esteem issues are the sociopaths and the psychopaths, that lack of empathy, and never wonder how other people seem them, because they just don't care for other people.

but i can see that you are not a pushover with low esteem, people who fall in this categories fail to realize their own streghts and weakness, which does not allow them to improve themselves. obviously this is not your case

the simple fact that you have stated that you may have to leave your husband, is a sign that you visualize a life independent from your husband in your own two feets.

Still you choose the reconcilation path who is the most difficult and painful in many ocasions (of course is also the more rewarding), don't take me wrong, reconcilation is not for everyone, there just behaviors that are unforgivable to even consider it, but there also people who choose not even give a though to this idea.

Dr Holly Hein performed studies thet resulted in the next data. 80% couples who get divorced after an affair regret the decision. this obviously refer to people who did not even give a chance to see if there was something to save.

I sincerely hope that you can reach a sucessfully reconcilation, the path will be rough and diffcult, there will be triggers, like the one you mentioned and the beginning of the thread, but that is why we are here, to support the people and help them to try and encourage them when they a need a little push from people who is not related to them and can given them a honest thought, so in this way even if the R fail in the end they will not live with "the What if?" of those 80%.


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